# 15 year olds still wearing nappies????



## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

REALLY????? What is the world coming to? 

Children Over Five 'Wearing Nappies In Class'


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

15 years old? 11 year olds still in night nappies??

Jake had to be out of nappies to start playgroup - he was 2.5 yrs old!

And he was out of nappies - and dry through the night!

What is _wrong_ with some parents??


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

I can understand young children having the occasional accident but nappies up to the age of 15 is insane, surely toilet training is top of the list for most parents - there are also reports that children are now taking longer to speak, and speak properly, due to them having less interaction with family, probably because people are too busy on the computer, or watching tv or playing with other gadgets.


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

For crying out loud, what the heck is wrong with some people! Do they expect the teachers to toilet train teenagers now. 
I read things like this and it all sounds like one big April fools joke, but I know it's not. Or if it is then the whole country must be in on it.
There are kids going to school who can't dress themselves, eat with a knife and fork properly or put their shoes on the right feet. I'm talking about older kids, not toddlers.

It seems to me that some people expect others to do everything for them. It's always someone elses fault when things go wrong, never their fault. 

What's happened to parental responsibility?


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Lazy parenting , thats all it is


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

WTF! Why on earth would any 15 year old want to sit in a nappy?  surely the must know when the need the toilet, they'd pee themselves during the day otherwise? I'd rather get out of bed during the night for 2 mins than sleep in a wet nappy. Lazy parents AND lazy kids.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

uh how can a 15 yr old get away with a log in his pants, without everyone knowing by the smell lol. I cant belive this isnt a joke, crazy stuff.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> uh how can a 15 yr old get away with a log in his pants, without everyone knowing by the smell lol.


I had a friend at school who often messed herself (she had a bowel condition and couldnt help it). Point is that the other kids were horrible to her and bullied her loads.
Surely the bullying alone would make them visit the loo more often!?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I can understand maybe a 5 year old who hasn't been taught but a 15 year old . I don't understand why at that age you wouldn't just teach yourself.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Words fail me.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

This all came to pass originally when children with SEN were introduced to mainstream and suddenly to was illegal to refuse a child on the basis they werent out of nappies on any grounds or other social issues, such as using hands at meal times etc
but
I personally, blame the upsurge and reliance on things like drynites and other 'pant' type nappies

A child HAS to feel uncomfortable and wet to learn what the 'i need the loo' feeling in his 'tummy' is about during the day and to learn the 'alarm' at night
with these nappy pants children dont get that daytime knowledge, parents know they dont have to lift a child at night and children sleep deeper missing the cues

I know this is an un pc view, but there is so much emphasis these days on mums going back to work as soon as possible, I can see where these nappy pants are a godsend, both for parents and childminders
but
as a SAHM of 4 under 5, [two were a set of twins] I managed to have all of mine dry, day and night, by age of two/three, including one with ASD, all able to use a pencil, knife and fork, say please and thank you know their numbers to 10, write their own full name and know their alphabet, get dressed and put their shoes on the right feet [yes even the one with ASD] by the time they went to playgroup

so, imho,

The government need to step in and either give mums more* full paid* maternity allowance or introduce a 'granny payment' so the children have time to learn these cues in a 1:1/2 loving family no pressure basis, rather than a 1:5/10 basis of a childminder/nursery, with their minds on a million different things at once [not knocking childminders btw, they are an invaluable asset]

what they dont need to do is introduce compulsory schooling at age of 2 [when children are still babies] thereby putting even more stress on teachers

go back to letting mums be mums [rather than be pressurised into being supermums and jills of all trades] and babies be babies and, whilst Im not saying all the countries ills would be solved, but toileting, manners and early [normal] home skills certainly would be


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## Tenar (Mar 29, 2014)

If a fifteen year old is wearing nappies and doesn't have a medical condition to account for it, then it sounds like child abuse to me. That's not just lazy parenting. That's way beyond it. Possibly we're talking about serious mental illness in the parent(s).

Also please note that the fifteen year old was an outlier, and most of the children they were talking about were five. Which is still alarmingly late, of course.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Too many people are being lazy and think it's easier to leave it later but once the child gets to around 3 they are embarrassed by sitting on a potty and going to toilet in front of people , at play groups etc , where as a 2 year old doesn't question it . 

Each child is different, I did tried my daughter at 24months old she wasn't ready , tried again at 26months and she got it in one day and went through the nights from that day and never had a accident.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> I had a friend at school who often messed herself (she had a bowel condition and couldnt help it). Point is that the other kids were horrible to her and bullied her loads.
> Surely the bullying alone would make them visit the loo more often!?


If my kids ever had of had a bowel condition like that, i'd have to evaluate sending them to school and opt for home school, that level of shame and bullying isnt what a loving parent would expose their child to.



Tenar said:


> If a fifteen year old is wearing nappies and doesn't have a medical condition to account for it, then it sounds like child abuse to me..


I agree, its blatant abuse and parents should be charged criminally for it if theres no medical reason after a certain age.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

I worked with an 11yr old with cerebral palsy who was, and may always be, in nappies. This is in a mainstream school, and he was never teased.

But in early years, as the nappies got better, the parents got noticeably lazier. It takes effort to toilet train, and many just couldn't be bothered to put the effort in. The kids were comfortable, so children that might have been out of nappies before 3 yr old, were still in them gone 4 yr old.​


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Preschools here in Gibraltar do not accept children in nappies..neither do schools..except special needs children..where teache rsand carers make it one of the main targets to toilet tran the kids..as it may decide about their future life!! -if they can be employable or live semi independent life!


Nappies during the day past age of four - for no reason other than lack of training is a child neglect!!

I believe by three children should be nappy free by three..but must add a margin for some extra time...sh"t happens!!:ciappa:


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Can't read the link because mobile refuses to open another "window" but I can see both sides of this.

First of all, yes, of course its wrong for children over about 3-4 years to be in nappies, but I do have a relative whose son still has far too many "accidents" to be normal. The boy has been for test after test, his parents have taken him to the doctor for general incontinence and other issues, those have came back, saying he's fine. He's been assessed for adhd and autism. He's had phycological evaluations in Years 1 and 2 of school. His parents have tried sitting the boy down and talking to him, tried confiscating his favourite toys, the child's gran has offered incentives in the form of treats for going a whole week without an accident, they're constantly reminding him to go to the toilet (when they see him looking like he needs it). 

They've looked into potential bullying at school as a possible trigger, even suggested maybe it's a form of attention seeking since this started after his 3y/o sister was born, but there's no obvious pattern. 

I haven't heard as much of it being a problem lately, but certainly up to a few months ago it was.

They don't use the drynights (afaik) but just wanted to put it out there that it isn't always lazy parenting  Maybe the boy has something wrong with him and he's yet to be diagnosed. Maybe it's psychological and perhaps it manifests when he's under stress. Maybe he'll still grow out of it ... We don't know, but this child is a relative and whilst I'm not saying every parent does as much as his do, I would appreciate it if people didn't just say "blame the parents". 

There but for the grace of god, and all that.

The boy is 8. He's a very smart kid and astounds us with what he comes out with, so it's not like he's got learning difficulties.

I'm sorry, I don't like coming across as holier than thou but it really is easy to sit and point the finger with 1 hand whilst patting yourselves on the back with the other when your own kids reach the correct milestones at the correct ages.

Thank you.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

LinznMilly said:


> Can't read the link because mobile refuses to open another "window" but I can see both sides of this.
> 
> First of all, yes, of course its wrong for children over about 3-4 years to be in nappies, but I do have a relative whose son still has far too many "accidents" to be normal. The boy has been for test after test, his parents have taken him to the doctor for general incontinence and other issues, those have came back, saying he's fine. He's been assessed for adhd and autism. He's had phycological evaluations in Years 1 and 2 of school. His parents have tried sitting the boy down and talking to him, tried confiscating his favourite toys, the child's gran has offered incentives in the form of treats for going a whole week without an accident, they're constantly reminding him to go to the toilet (when they see him looking like he needs it).
> 
> ...


But this is a child with, as you say, a possible undiagnosed problem
All schools make allowances for children going through or have a diagnosis and [should] make sure bullying etc is a no go from day one [for all children not just those with needs]

We, I believe, are talking about neurotypical A1 kids, parents that have absolutely no excuse, except setting their children up to fail

As for the 15 yr old, I really dont believe he didnt have some form of extra need [chronns, ibs, coeliac, slack bowels or leaky urinal track etc] cos no neurotypical A1 15 yr old is going to not train themselves, ever!!


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

Early teens is when kids start developing sexual feelings towards others. Not a good way to start attracting dates, really is it!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

mrs phas said:


> But this is a child with, as you say, a possible undiagnosed problem
> All schools make allowances for children going through or have a diagnosis and [should] make sure bullying etc is a no go from day one [for all children not just those with needs]
> 
> We, I believe, are talking about neurotypical A1 kids, parents that have absolutely no excuse, except setting their children up to fail
> ...


BUT, what if he doesn't? What if there's nothing medically wrong with him? Just go back to blaming the parents? :huh:

What if I'd been the boy's mum, and came across this thread? In one reply I'm told I'm "lazy", and further on, I'm told I'm guilty of child abuse?

And though it's _not _me, the boy's mum IS a member of this forum, so don't just assume she won't come across it.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I haven't been able to read the link but have read all the replies.

To be honest, this isn't a new thing and isn't an uncommon as people are also made to believe. We hear these cases of kids having dummies at a very late age, mothers still breastfeeding, etc.

I can understand if a child has severe health or mental problems so there is a valid reason behind it. You can usually get much support that way to eliminate any bullying, prejudice, etc.

If there is no health reasons behind it, it is a bad form of parenting behind, a case of laziness, mixed in with too much molly coddling at the start to stop this from happening and discipline children into growth and the weaning stages.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

LinznMilly said:


> BUT, what if he doesn't? What if there's nothing medically wrong with him? Just go back to blaming the parents? :huh:
> 
> What if I'd been the boy's mum, and came across this thread? In one reply I'm told I'm "lazy", and further on, I'm told I'm guilty of child abuse?


if there's nothing medically wrong with him
then
yes, 
the parents are to blame and not tackling it IS a form of abuse, it comes under the heading of neglect
there is absolutely no reason a neurotypical, A1, 8 yr old should be soiling themselves during the day, at night it is different, some children [as I said before] are deep sleepers and, as wee is warm, they dont realise til theyre sleeping in a cold wet bed [ my own nephew is still sleeping in nappy pants at age 10 because of this, he has slept through solid since 8 weeks old]

sorry if that makes for uncomfortable reading, its not because im unsympathetic,
but it is the truth


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

There will be a reason behind a 15 year old wearing a nappy during the day. How sad.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

mrs phas said:


> if there's nothing medically wrong with him
> then
> yes,
> the parents are to blame and not tackling it IS a form of abuse, it comes under the heading of neglect
> ...


How are they not tackling it? What more could they possibly do? They've tried absolutely everything from telling him off for it, confiscating his favourite things, talking to him to see if something's bothering him emotionally, tried explaining to him WHY it makes them so annoyed with him, to taking him to the doctors and getting him tested!

What more could they possibly do? Lead him to the bloody toilet and stand over him while he does it?!?!?

How dare you!

How judgemental.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

LinznMilly said:


> What more could they possibly do? Lead him to the bloody toilet and stand over him while he does it?!?!?


yes

and if i can do it with a child who has ASD then I have every right to dare

no longer getting into it with you, YOU made this personal when everyone was talking generic
its not even your child yet you brought him into the debate, castigating us all who dare debate and talk about an issue of the day
Maybe the childs mother would be more aghast about that, than a generic opinion


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## dave123791 (Oct 21, 2013)

15 year old? Are they joking, that is just stupid


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

There must be a reason for a 15 year old soiling themselves. Are you saying he chooses to not go to the toilet or does he not know that he needs to go? If there is no underlying medical cause I'd ask the GP for a referral to CAMHS for additional investigation and support.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

mrs phas said:


> This all came to pass originally when children with SEN were introduced to mainstream and suddenly to was illegal to refuse a child on the basis they werent out of nappies on any grounds or other social issues, such as using hands at meal times etc
> but
> *I personally, blame the upsurge and reliance on things like drynites and other 'pant' type nappies*
> This is my feeling, too - they don't have any awareness, and lazy parents aren't bothering to teach them because the kids don't even get a nappy rash with these things.
> ...


I really think it's parental laziness. It isn't as though mothers never worked in the past, and some of them had umpteen children, so hadn't got the time to spend with them individually, yet they would have been ashamed to send them to school without basic toilet and social skills.

As a speech and language therapist I worked with children whose parents were both professionals (and often teachers), and who were quite literally collected from the childminder and put straight to bed because their mam and dad wanted to "relax" - didn't even have them foe family time for a couple of hours. IMO it's often parents like these who can't be @rsed to teach their children - not all children with problems are from difficult backgrounds.

And these days no one is allowed to criticise - either child or parents - there is always an excuse. Sorry - no excuse for children over five regularly being incontinent during the day unless their is a medical reason. COmes down to laziness and not giving a damn. If I was a teach I would refuse to do toilet duty with these children. That isn't what teachers are employed to do.

Most nursery groups won't accept children until they are out of nappies - school;s should be the same.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

According to the stats these kids still in nappies at 15 are normal, healthy kids and not those with disabilities or other special needs.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Iheartcats said:


> According to the stats these kids still in nappies at 15 are normal, healthy kids and not those with disabilities or other special needs.


I would strongly disagree. A 15 year old in nappies would have a reason. Maybe abused. Maybe neglect. Unless I know the full facts I will not criticise.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

LinznMilly said:


> BUT, what if he doesn't? What if there's nothing medically wrong with him? Just go back to blaming the parents? :huh:
> 
> What if I'd been the boy's mum, and came across this thread? In one reply I'm told I'm "lazy", and further on, I'm told I'm guilty of child abuse?
> 
> And though it's _not _me, the boy's mum IS a member of this forum, so don't just assume she won't come across it.


 so what if she reads it, we have a right to air our disgust and shock about it, regardless of who is to blame it is a rancid situation, you made it about her personally, my posts are in a general stance of the topic overall as are most others.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

My grandson turned 3 a couple of weeks ago. He will not have a nappy on and only has occasional accidents at night time...usually when he went to bed later than normal and was in such a deep sleep etc. I think age 3 for nappies at night is too old....

with my own children, they were out of nappies around 2....one was slightly older around 2years and a couple of months.and i couldn't wait for her to get it so I didn't have to mess with nappies anymore.

I do so agree re children need to feel uncomfortable in wet nappies etc and disposables don't always allow this to happen.

Just think of the cost of nappies for older children...........sooner they are out of them, the better.

My daughter spoke to her health visitor re potty training when her son was 18months old. Daughter was told he was very young and they don't consider it a problem until the child reached 7 and that plenty children were still in nappies and going to school. yuk.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

I thought the 15 years was a typo! There must be some other issues at that age

The cases of children still in nappies at 5 where it is claimed its just due to lazy parenting - they must have plenty of money to waste and it seems a warped way of thinking as its so much easier when tots are out of nappies


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

gorgeous said:


> There will be a reason behind a 15 year old wearing a nappy during the day. How sad.





gorgeous said:


> I would strongly disagree. A 15 year old in nappies would have a reason. Maybe abused. Maybe neglect. Unless I know the full facts I will not criticise.





DoodlesRule said:


> I thought the 15 years was a typo! There must be some other issues at that age


I think that there just be a psychological reason even if there isn't a physical one if a child is still in nappies at that age.

What teenager wants to be wetting their pants?!


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

lostbear said:


> I think that there just be a psychological reason even if there isn't a physical one if a child is still in nappies at that age.
> 
> What teenager wants to be wetting their pants?!


Has to be one disturbed mentality for sure.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Surley a child should'nt get to the age of 15 what ever the reason for wearing a nappy it should have been investigated and sorted years ago,be it illness or a mental problem.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> I would strongly disagree. A 15 year old in nappies would have a reason. Maybe abused. Maybe neglect. Unless I know the full facts I will not criticise.


That's what I thought too. There has to be a reason. No "normal" 15 year old would be seen dead wearing a nappy.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

This is why I'm cloth nappying. I feel disposables don't feel as wet so they may not even know. I can't judge these people, but I thought your health visitor would be investigating if they were not potty trained? Or do visits stop after a certain age?

Again I've no idea but I wouldn't be happy with that unless there was a medical reason obviously.


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## feathered bird lover (May 23, 2011)

my friends son was 9 years old and still wearing nappies, was taller than myself and big built, as parents stated that he was fine going to toilet to pass urine but he just would not do a 'poo'. so the best thing for him was to wear a nappie. 

i only found this out when, after a few years of only seeing him through the day, he was to spend the night with us, and i had smelled something 'off', as he was sitting beside me, i thought at first it was wind but got the shock of my life when he went through his 'night bag' and produced a nappie. i was horrified!!!!!!! i finally persuaded him, gently mind you, to wear a pair of pants, it took hours, and i think him seeing me being physically sick made him think a wee bit, who knows but that night i only had to throw out 2 pairs of pants. they were my husbands new one's you know the ones 3 in a pack.

if i had gotten him to wear pants on 1 night why couldn't his parents!!!!!! he was wearing nappies going to school for heavens sake, couldn't do p.e. because of his bad health the teacher was told, i now know the reason why. poor kid.

he's 15 now and talks of this with me and i never say he was in the wrong but it was just a bit of a bad time everyone was going through and it was the only way he could deal with it, he cries occasionally but why instead of shouting at him and letting him wear nappies at that age couldn't they just sit down and talk to him as i did. why did it only take for me and my husband to ask him not to wear nappies rather than listening to his parents, these question will never be answered, ridiculous, eh!!!!!!!!!

don't know why he listened to me and my husband, he has always liked us and calls us aunt and uncle, there's always been a good bond there, i'm glad he listened to us and so was his mother, she can't believe it either, she wasn't a bad mother, loves her son to bits, life's strange, eh!!


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Some kids are easier to train than others. I tried everything under the sun to train my son from the age of 2 and it just wasn't sinking in. He couldn't care less if he had dirty "big boy pants" on or not. He'd happily sit and play with a poo in his pants. Even when he started school at 4 I'd get phone calls to come up to the school to change him as he had a little "accident".

The whole toilet training issue was a nightmare. I was totally at the end of my tether over it. One time I got so frustrated I sat on the potty to show him what to do  That was no easy feat sitting on a potty with my big ass!!

My daughter on the other hand was dry by day and night by the age of 3 and rarely had an accident.

My mother is 74 now and has the whole of her life suffered with problems with her bladder. She's been referred to specialists left, right and centre and all the results come back as normal but if she has to wee its a sudden urge and panic sets in and she reckons it was because when she was a little toddler she was severely punished for having wet pants and so she has developed a "bladder phobia" and so she panics if she needs a wee in case she wets herself and its been the bane of her whole life. When she was a child she'd get teased, humiliated and shamed by her siblings if she wet herself. Its something she couldn't control. It wasn't that her parents failed to properly train her its more a case of being a "late developer" but back in her generation you had to be completely dry by 18 months which for her was impossible and so its had a negative impact ever since.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Sorry no offence meant, but that is just *disgusting*. WTH are parents thinking 

I work in a nursery and children have to be out of nappies before they join us at 2 and a half


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

feathered bird lover said:


> my friends son was 9 years old and still wearing nappies, was taller than myself and big built, as parents stated that he was fine going to toilet to pass urine but he just would not do a 'poo'. so the best thing for him was to wear a nappie.
> 
> i only found this out when, after a few years of only seeing him through the day, he was to spend the night with us, and i had smelled something 'off', as he was sitting beside me, i thought at first it was wind but got the shock of my life when he went through his 'night bag' and produced a nappie. i was horrified!!!!!!! i finally persuaded him, gently mind you, to wear a pair of pants, it took hours, and i think him seeing me being physically sick made him think a wee bit, who knows but that night i only had to throw out 2 pairs of pants. they were my husbands new one's you know the ones 3 in a pack.
> 
> ...





Iheartcats said:


> Some kids are easier to train than others. I tried everything under the sun to train my son from the age of 2 and it just wasn't sinking in. He couldn't care less if he had dirty "big boy pants" on or not. He'd happily sit and play with a poo in his pants. Even when he started school at 4 I'd get phone calls to come up to the school to change him as he had a little "accident".
> 
> The whole toilet training issue was a nightmare. I was totally at the end of my tether over it. One time I got so frustrated I sat on the potty to show him what to do  That was no easy feat sitting on a potty with my big ass!!
> 
> ...


Liked because it's nice to read that not everyone on this forum is judgemental, not because you've both had personal experience of problems with incontinence, although it is nice to know that we're not the only family in this situation.

It really is easy to judge others when your own life is within normal parameters. We don't all have the same skill-set. Not all of us are Einsteins, Mozarts, or Van Goughs. Not every child will meet the correct milestones at the correct ages and some on this forum could do with first-hand experience of that.

The boy I was talking about was fully toilet trained at 2. This "incontinence" thing has been recent - since he started school, and, allegedly, the teachers weren't letting him go to the toilet, then phoning his parents to come and change him/putting him in a younger girl's trousers because "that's all they had in". It got to the point where his parents were threatening to pull him from the school to get so much as an apology from the teacher. Strangely enough, since he went into Juniors, we've heard less and less of accidents.

Maybe he _was _abused - but _not _by his parents.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

And I thought that the parenting forums were bitchy and judgemental! Remind me not to come here when looking for potty training advice - god forbid my daughter doesn't get it instantly like all the other perfect children here have.

Yes its shocking, yes in some there is possibly an element of last parenting but lets be honest, its a news story done to shock and i very much doubt that we have all the facts.

Also all these "to come to my nursery you much be potty trained by X" is the reason i go without to pay for a nanny to avoid this judgemental crap.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

LinznMilly said:


> Can't read the link because mobile refuses to open another "window" but I can see both sides of this.
> 
> First of all, yes, of course its wrong for children over about 3-4 years to be in nappies, but I do have a relative whose son still has far too many "accidents" to be normal. The boy has been for test after test, his parents have taken him to the doctor for general incontinence and other issues, those have came back, saying he's fine. He's been assessed for adhd and autism. He's had phycological evaluations in Years 1 and 2 of school. His parents have tried sitting the boy down and talking to him, tried confiscating his favourite toys, the child's gran has offered incentives in the form of treats for going a whole week without an accident, they're constantly reminding him to go to the toilet (when they see him looking like he needs it).
> 
> ...





LinznMilly said:


> BUT, what if he doesn't? What if there's nothing medically wrong with him? Just go back to blaming the parents? :huh:
> 
> What if I'd been the boy's mum, and came across this thread? In one reply I'm told I'm "lazy", and further on, I'm told I'm guilty of child abuse?
> 
> And though it's _not _me, the boy's mum IS a member of this forum, so don't just assume she won't come across it.





LinznMilly said:


> The boy I was talking about was fully toilet trained at 2. This "incontinence" thing has been recent - since he started school, and, allegedly, the teachers weren't letting him go to the toilet, then phoning his parents to come and change him/putting him in a younger girl's trousers because "that's all they had in". It got to the point where his parents were threatening to pull him from the school to get so much as an apology from the teacher. Strangely enough, since he went into Juniors, we've heard less and less of accidents.
> 
> Maybe he _was _abused - but _not _by his parents.


Sorry, really wasnt going to comment any more on this thread

but

Youre 'story' has changed so much, it beggars belief

I have quoted your posts so its there for all to see

which is the correct 'story'? he's still incontinent at 9 and there may or may not be something wrong
but if theres not then Im judgemental [your words] for suggesting his parents need to be looking at themselves

or he was dry at 2 but bullying and abuse by the school [ and it IS abuse and had this been the 'story' told in the first place I would have jumped all over the school] mean hes now not

or is this now another child youre talking about all together

remove the flipping great beam from your own eye, before looking at the splinter in mine in future

sorry mods, but I was unfairly accused and will stick up for myself
am now removing angry soapbox and again removing myself from the thread


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