# Sheep chasing Boxer



## billpilkington (Sep 23, 2012)

I have a 15 month old male boxer who has taken to chasing sheep.

I live in a rural location in the Pennines, down an old farm track and surrounded by fields where there are sheep around every corner. At first he was drawn to sheep in close proximity, but now when out walking, he's constantly looking further afield. Last week he spotted some over quarter of a mile away and he was off!

Once on the chase, he becomes oblivious to anything or anyone and catching him is impossible. His recall / stop / stay is great without any distractions, but once he sees or smells sheep, he seems to shut down his hearing and training goes out of the window.

He doesn't bite or savage them, its seems to be the thrill of the chase he enjoys. One of these days he will quite literally get shot. 

Of course I can keep him on a lead all of the time, but it makes for dull walks and he never gets to run around. 

I previously had a boxer who roamed around the fields all day and never bothered chasing anything.

Does anyone have any ideas of how to stop the behaviour?



Bill P.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2012)

No ideas but would strongly suggest you do keep him on lead as not only is he likely to get shot but you can be sued by the farmer for loss of livestock if any in lamb abort.

It may make for a boring walk but wouldn't you rather have the wee chap with you than lose him? 

Have you contacted a behaviourist/ trainer for constructive on site help? A training lead would give more freedom and control for you both.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I would think it would be hard to stop now that he's experienced the rewarding feeling of chasing them. I'd keep him on a lead and seek help from a behaviourist.

My dog would chase livestock so is on a lead for some walks - have you thought about running with yours as well for some variety until this is sorted for you both?


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Keep him on a long line, & I am sure the regulars will be along with the recall training ideas. If he doesn't recall with distractions, he doesn't have good recall and you need to work on it more.

You *do not *want to let him go after the sheep, it doesn't matter if he doesn't bite or savage them, its called sheep worrying, if in lamb they can abort, the farmers will not be impressed and may not hesitate to shoot (its not completely true that they are within their rights but most don't know that).

My OH works with sheep, their was a family moved on to the estate where they keep them, thinking it was their own big country playground, were most put out that they were told to walk their dogs on the lead rather than just let them out in the fields, one dog came about 1 min from having a bullet when they completely ignored the warnings.

Doh! Just realised I was too slow


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## WeimyLady (Jan 3, 2010)

I would have thought it was better for walks to be "dull" on a lead than for your dog to be on the receiving end of a farmers shotgun? 

The fact that your dog is bolting from a quarter of a mile away demonstrates that you have exactly no control. You have also allowed him to practice this behaviour numerous times by the sound of it and as we all know, the more a dog practices something the better they get at it. What is one of the most rewarding things a dog with a high prey drive can do? chase. What has your dog also learned by you allowing him to chase repeatedly? to ignore you.

If you value your dogs life you will keep him on a lead. You can use a long line or Flexi lead to allow him a little more freedom but he can NEVER be trusted in a field of livestock. This goes for ALL dogs no matter how "well trained" their owners think they are.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I've got a would be chaser in my Teckel so she has to stay on a long lead when we are on walks even though the sheep are in fenced fields.
She doesn't get off very often and I hate it but its not worth the risk.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Can only agree with what's already been said. I used a long line with Rupert (who was turned in to the shelter for sheep worrying) because no matter how far away sheep were he wanted to be off after them. There was no breaking him of the habit, he'd learned how much fun it was and quite frankly nothing I could do could come close to it.


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## stubyng (Oct 9, 2012)

I have to agree with other posts. It is vital that you keep him on a lead when anywhere near sheep or livestock.

Also, try improving on his recall skills as he cannot be as well trained as you believe. May be worth contacting a behaviourist or trainer to assist with this.

It may also be that it will be very difficult to break his habit now. In which case, keeping him on an extending lead would be better. Or try finding open spaces in your local area that have absolutely no livestock.


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Fraid I m in the long line camp. My Weimie chased some sheep when very young and now if we are anywhere near he is on the lead. Our neighbours have sheep and he is always looking for them, now when I tell him to leave he comes away, but I don't trust him especially if they run. I don't want him shot and round Worcestershire a lot of dogs have been recently


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I would suggest you contact somebody like Angela Stockdale or Barbara Sykes for help. Read Angela's site on livestock issues, a lot of people have not got a clue about the sort of dog they have at the end of the lead, some are born killers but most can be turned around provided they have not had too much practice on it.

Angela Stockdale, Dog Aggression Specialist - Living with Livestock: dogs with stock problems

Mainline Border Collie Centre


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

I second Smokeybear's suggestion. I've always had a lot of respect for Angela Stockdale's ideas. We corresponded briefly about aversion "tools" for sheep-killing dogs and she's VERY sensible.

I agree with the people who have posted and would add that sheep have a right to live unmolested. They are not insensate objects left in paddocks for the amusement of dogs. 

Put the dog on a lead or long-line. It has NO right to a more amusing walk at the expense of other living animals.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

You can also have a sheep die from JUST being chased. You are displaying an incredible amount of ignorance, selfish stupidity, and the most insulting sense of self entitlement. Are these sheep on your land? Frankly, if 1/2 a dozen big burly farmers entertained themselves with your face, I'd think that very fair, and you had no grounds for complaint. Typically, your sense of entitlement and stupidity means your dog will probably pay the price. Then you'll whine about jack booted farmers.

If your dog is shot and you are identified as owner, and someone hears about this thread, and that you knowingly allowed it to continue, I would think there would be a very good case for a big settlement AND you probably will not be covered by your insurance, as you were aware of it and allowed it to continue. Sending you back to suburbia with a massive legal bill and an order for your dog's destruction just MIGHT wake you up. Put yourself in the shoes of those farmers, instead of walking the countryside, seeing nothing but YOU. If they are prized bloodlines, 1 sheep could cost thousands. Shame on you. STOP BLEATING, GET AN EXPERT IN AND/OR MAKE SURE YOUR DOG NEVER RUNS LOOSE, unless completely, safely contained in your own backyard.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

You MUST keep your dog on the lead. I know exactly what I would do about it but my post would be deleted.


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## MirandaA1 (Jan 12, 2012)

As a result of this thread, I am trying to book myself, Scout, and Fly into Angela Stockdale's workshop next Monday! A long way to go, from London to Somerset, but it's got to be worth it, as we go to the countryside quite a lot, and where we go there is a lot of livestock - sheep, cows, horses. So whilst we keep the dogs on the lead near livestock, it would be good for them (and me) to have some training in controlling their desire to chase.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

MirandaA1 said:


> As a result of this thread, I am trying to book myself, Scout, and Fly into Angela Stockdale's workshop next Monday! A long way to go, from London to Somerset, but it's got to be worth it, as we go to the countryside quite a lot, and where we go there is a lot of livestock - sheep, cows, horses. So whilst we keep the dogs on the lead near livestock, it would be good for them (and me) to have some training in controlling their desire to chase.


I would be really interested to hear how you get on if you do manage to get a place. Her courses look great but unfortunately it's just too far for me to drive.


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## MirandaA1 (Jan 12, 2012)

We're definitely booked into Angela Stockdale's workshop tomorrow! Both dogs. So that's great news.


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## billpilkington (Sep 23, 2012)

househens said:


> You can also have a sheep die from JUST being chased. You are displaying an incredible amount of ignorance, selfish stupidity, and the most insulting sense of self entitlement. Are these sheep on your land? Frankly, if 1/2 a dozen big burly farmers entertained themselves with your face, I'd think that very fair, and you had no grounds for complaint. Typically, your sense of entitlement and stupidity means your dog will probably pay the price. Then you'll whine about jack booted farmers.
> 
> If your dog is shot and you are identified as owner, and someone hears about this thread, and that you knowingly allowed it to continue, I would think there would be a very good case for a big settlement AND you probably will not be covered by your insurance, as you were aware of it and allowed it to continue. Sending you back to suburbia with a massive legal bill and an order for your dog's destruction just MIGHT wake you up. Put yourself in the shoes of those farmers, instead of walking the countryside, seeing nothing but YOU. If they are prized bloodlines, 1 sheep could cost thousands. Shame on you. STOP BLEATING, GET AN EXPERT IN AND/OR MAKE SURE YOUR DOG NEVER RUNS LOOSE, unless completely, safely contained in your own backyard.


Dear Mr Angry,

I don't drive from suburbia to walk my dog on the hills, I live smack bang in the middle of open moorland. There is no road, no passing traffic, no mains water and certainly no backyard. I open my door and within 50 feet, I am walking on the moors which I do at least twice a day with my dog.

I have lived here for the last 10 years and know some of the local farmers on 1st name terms. I have talked openly with them about my dogs problem and explained what he has been doing.

Here in Yorkshire, farmers don't wear jackboots and jump on peoples faces, they wear wellies and are a pretty friendly bunch. Perhaps the farmers you know have shaved heads and are members of the BNP or National Front. Or perhaps you don't actually know any real farmers at all, but it's something you once read about in the Sun newspaper.

Obviously I am not letting my dog chase sheep on purpose and as the problem has become worse recently, I have been putting him on a lead most of the time. I don't expect any "self entitlement" at all or am I bleating. I just want to find a solution to the bad habit my dog has developed. If it can't be stopped, then he will be on a lead all of the time.

As I said in my original post, my previous boxer never bothered with sheep at all, so this chasing problem is new to me.

That is why I am asking for ideas on how other members of this forum might have dealt with a similar problem in the past. Hopefully, some of the replies from other members will be a little more constructive, less aggressive and better written.

Bill.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Not read anyones reply, but you need to keep you dog on a lead in the vicinty of livestock until you are 100% confident that he has been cured of this, which may be never. And you dont need me to tell you that even if he is not savaging the sheep then he could still be shot by the farmer for worrying them.

dont know what ofthers have suggested but maybe try a very good trainer or behaviourist even.


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## Qow (Jun 26, 2012)

Well said Bill. That post was rude and downright threatening and I'm glad it didn't put you off posting again. The more helpful replies you've had are much more in keeping with the normal friendly atmosphere on the forum. 

You're in a very difficult situation as I'd imagine a 15 month old boxer will become very frustrated if walked only on lead. I hope you're able to sort it out with training. Angela Stockdale sounds like a promising option.


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## billpilkington (Sep 23, 2012)

A huge thank you for the help and positive suggestions. 

I have now bought an 8mtr flex-lead which is a great help. I will give Angela Stockdale a call on Monday. She sounds as though she knows what she is doing.

I'm not too sure about the comments from some members who say "once a chaser - always a chaser". If that was the case, then Angela Stockdale would be out of work!

Hopefully, as Herbie my boxer is only 15 months old, he should be able to be trained to stop the chasing. But until then, he will be spending a lot of time on the lead.



Bill.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2012)

Good luck and do keep us updated on how things go with Herbie.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

when i read the title i imagined ewes chasing audley "horizontal" harrison


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

having lived on a sheep farm in scotland, please keep the dog long lined or leashed. sheep do die of fright, their bodies are not built for being chased and they can easily miscarry any lambs they are carrying, also if your dog was to try and chase a sheep that had just given birth he could easily be hurt himself when the roles are reversed, a peed off mum is a frightening sight, trust me i have been there


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2012)

Mr Pilkington

1) I am an elderly female

2) I own 22 sheep that are pets

3) I live in Australia and in a sheep raising district

4) I have seen sheep disembowelled by pet dogs, still living, still dragging their guts around, covered in dirt, having to be shot.

5) I have seen sheep dead from exhaustion/heart failure. with no marks on them and in great distress and battling to control their breathing. In full wool, they are unable to cool and carry a huge weight for their body size.

6) I have seen ewes trying to guard their lambs, torn open, and still alive in the morning, after attack of hours earlier, with no option but throats cut.

7) Dogs don't kill just one sheep and eat. They go on sprees of chasing/attack. A farmer will come out to a few dead, 3 or 6 torn open, and beyond help, a few touch and go. Some farmers lose 30 or 40 lambs in one night. The worst this year, was almost 60 lambs in one night.

8) Any animal lover with any decency and empathy and education would NOT knowingly allow their dog loose, KNOWING the dog chases sheep, in a sheep raising area.

9) If you are going to patronise me, getting almost every judgement wrong about me, I will also inform you that I rescue dogs, and came to this district with a pack of 9 suburban dogs, shut down 3 dogs who showed the first signs of sheep worrying, and indeed, they share their backyard, with 3 of the oldest sheep, accept lambs to the point of them sleeping in the same basket, including the occasional hen. One of my dogs had killed a lamb, when I took it on, and if a sheep approached it, it would come and find me and sit next to me - and look extremely worried and guilty... Very intelligent dog, and desperate to establish the sheep approached her, and she was actively avoiding it. My dogs can be left with any creature, and apart from accidentally stepping on stick insect, won't harm anything, even mice. I regularly have sparrows and magpies come into my house, perfectly safely.

10) You did not say you wanted to fix the sheep chasing before you let the dog off. You are KNOWINGLY allowing your dog off, knowing it will, and INGRAINING habit and entitlement. That all has to be UNDONE because of your sense of entitlement. 

I remember meeting an alpaca breeder who spoke of a family who brought their 2 dogs to live in the country. Without them realising, their dogs were worrying stock, each night. He lost an alpaca, pregnant, with cria at foot, all up, worth $11000, 15ish years ago. 20 years of showing and selective breeding, in his best animal. An animal he wept over. The 2 dogs shot in his paddock. Your attitude stinks of entitlement. You clearly have little knowledge of dog behaviour and training, given you are happy to continue to habituate your dog in the undesirable behaviour. I can only imagine your neighbours have never experienced sheep worrying, if you are so remote, or perhaps they see their sheep as walking pound notes, and as long as you pay for deaths/vet bills, they don't care. Perhaps if they have found sheep dead, without a mark, they aren't aware that it was from sheep worrying. Could be like one of my neighbours, whose sheep are neglected, and unless one turned up at his car park, trailing intestines, he wouldn't know, as an absentee owner.

Yes I am angry. I have seen what happens to livestock AND THE DOGS, when owners don't care. You don't really care. You're still releasing your dog, knowing it will chase, knowing it will EXPECT that entitlement to chase, because by allowing it, it gives permission and implicit approval. Just tell me your dog sleeps loose, outside, and you have no idea what it does at night, and make my week. My backyard is 2 metre high fencing, as much to protect my dogs from accusation, tho these days, my neighbours have seen hens, sheep, lambs, all in together. My dogs have actually warned me of a dog attack on my neighbours place. My dogs all slept and sleep inside, the whole night, so I CAN say they don't bark or roam at night.

I don't think my dogs have the right to upset any other animal/s, just for it's pleasure or mine. That IS a HUGE sense of entitlement you live with... It is not a casual, unimportant issue. Your slackness has made it more difficult to fix. Yes. I do find the majority of farmers unpleasantly rough. They would probably react to losing their property/money and your attitude, not my fury at your casual reaction to sheep stress, risk of attack and death, quite apart from your dog's risk of a destruction order, if caught.


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## billpilkington (Sep 23, 2012)

househens said:


> Mr Pilkington
> 
> 1) I am an elderly female
> 
> ...


Thank you for the comments and for giving us all an insight into life down under. Clearly in your rage you skipped over my last posting. It was:

_"A huge thank you for the help and positive suggestions.

I have now bought an 8mtr flex-lead which is a great help. I will give Angela Stockdale (professional dog trainer) a call on Monday. She sounds as though she knows what she is doing.

I'm not too sure about the comments from some members who say "once a chaser - always a chaser". If that was the case, then Angela Stockdale would be out of work!

Hopefully, as Herbie my boxer is only 15 months old, he should be able to be trained to stop the chasing. *But until then, he will be spending a lot of time on the lead"*._

A few corrections from your post above:

_*"You don't really care"*._

If I was as irresponsible as you seem mistakenly seem to think, I wouldn't be looking for ways to rectify the problem. Like you, I take all animal welfare seriously be it birds, cats, dogs, sheep, kangaroos or anything with a pulse

_*"You're still releasing your dog"*._

Wrong.

_*"...tell me your dog sleeps loose, outside, and you have no idea what it does at night...."*_

Wrong. He sleeps inside every night.

I could write a lot more but I suspect it might fall on deaf Aussie ears. The important thing is that from this forum, I have found positive ways to start to fix the problem, which as I write, are already being put in place. G'day.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2012)

1) I DIDN'T say your dog sleeps loose outside. I said Tell me your dog sleeps loose outside and you have no idea what it does at night, and make my week. I am NOT wrong because I was not making a statement. I was wondering just how slack your sense of responsibility was. At the time, it was totally open ended.

2) In your initial query you asked if there was anything you could do but said you did not intend to walk your dog on a lead for all your walk... I can't refer back to your exact words, as it is on a previous page, but it was clear you didn't intend to curtail your dog's off lead adventures, because it wouldn't have been as enjoyable or interesting, or the walk would be more boring. Words to that effect. You also said there were sheep all around you, and you were coming across them unexpectedly... I can't refer to the exact words. If there were to be offlead runs at any point, by your own words, you might run into sheep and then your dog would be gone, so initially, you were intending to continue the free runs, despite the likelihood of your dog chasing sheep.

3) you may not be releasing your dog NOW, we rely on your word and honour, but in your first post, you made it clear that you had no desire to stop your dogs off lead adventures, which was in combination, what made me so furious. 

I do not think you would have made these latest assurances and/or done them so promptly, if I hadn't sent you a well deserved rocket, and made it clear what you were complacently admitting your dog did and you allowed.

If you were SERIOUSLY concerned, you would have shut it down immediately it started. 

I didn't skip over the thanks you gave to people who are polite, urban and/or wanting to be gentle or nice. Many who haven't actually seen the results of dog worrying. Or others who had a traditional upbringing and would not speak sharply to a stranger, especially not a man, or a possible older man, whether or not they deserved it. Yes, I was the rocket up the jaxy you deserved. I am an old woman and smug complacent men who endanger animals and get upset if forced to look in a mirror, are far from my worry. I am not on pf to be YOUR friend and comforter and bolster your ego. Why would I acknowledge a thanks that CLEARLY and POINTEDLY wasn't directed at me? If you thanked everyone for baking you scones, and I didn't bake you scones, I'd still not acknowledge it. It isn't addressed to me. Was that supposed to make me squirm with guilt? I gave you what your initial post indicated you needed. A sharp wake up call, unable to be shrugged off, laughed off, or ignored, without risk of court action, if the dog continues or worsens.

If you HAD asked, truly concerned, upset, determined to fix it, you would have got a very different, supportive answer. I do have experience with the problem. I KNOW once a chaser always a chaser is NOT true. However, I do not believe you have the knowledge or judgement to do it alone or with instructions without supervision. I may be wrong, but on your current record, I think the whole thing should be overseen.

It may upset you but my priorities are the sheep and your dog not paying for your slackness, with their lives. Your ego can drown in a bucket. Not an interest. 

I draw your attention to to the statement, until then, he will be spending A LOT of time on the lead. If outside, given your inability to control your dog, and no secure back or front yard, I suggest if outside, ALL his time on lead, 

Apart from seeking the name of a good course, which you didn't specifically ask for, as I recall, but was volunteered, it rather alarms me that a mature? man hasn't worked out that if his dog runs off when out walking, with no recall and endangering stock, then it might be an idea to invest in a longline lead; or, in the days before they were marketed for dogs, a horse lungeing line; or in the years before that, a long, light rope, tied to a collar, which I certainly used, and worked out for myself, and I believe Mark Twain had Huckleberry Finn work out for himself, as an uneducated 19th century urchin. 

I HAVE noted you have taken steps to actually stop your dog. Given what I pointed out to you, you really had no other option, unless you rehomed the dog. Am I going to make a fuss of you because you are doing what you should have done earlier? No. That is simply responsible dog ownership. Delaying action has made it more difficult. I am glad for the sheep and your dog. I hope for their sakes, you don't faff it up.

If, as you imply, the polite and positive suggestion of a longline has suddenly opened up the world of responsible dog walking and ownership to you; if indeed, the idea of a long light rope was beyond you, in your months of travail, then you ARE right. I should have been very gentle and kind with you and used little words.


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