# Parents!! -rant alert-



## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Argh!! I am soo stressed!

Sounds really pathetic and trivial but I am soo stressed out!

I have been officially signed off work and onto ESA until atleast Decemeber 2014, which means I am home 99.9% of the time while my parents are at work.

They have decided that because I don't work it means I have to be responsible for the housework, the cooking and they're dog.(as well as my own)

Now the reason I am off work is because of a personality disorder and the fact I was a lot more unstable and very unwell with the added stress of work (i'm not doing brilliantly without it!)

I don't cope brilliantly with having 'alot' on my head to do, so when I get up in the morning to a list of jobs to do including my own appointments and walking/training Alfred.. I just makes me so stressed out in which makes me agitated and just a horrible person to be around.

I am just so fed up of it! Of course I also live in the house so having my own share of jobs is fair enough, but being told 'because you don't work its only fair while we're at work'
NO I DON'T WORK BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN TOLD I AM UNABLE TOO NOT BECAUSE I AM LAZY!! :incazzato:

I am soo close to just exploding over it to them but know it won't help... Anyway to approach them with it?

Sorry for the rant!


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## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

Being a parent... if my Child of any age came to me ranting and raving to get a point across, I wouldn't listen to them. So keep your rant to PF :lol:
If they tried to do what was asked and then came to me and said they was struggling I would be more forgiving. I would try and help them to find a more practical way of getting through the chores without it seeming like a massive over load. Even if that meant, halving the jobs like only wash up and then I will dry up.

Maybe instead of making a massive long list of jobs you have to do that looks overwhelming... how about writing each chore on a bit of paper and filling a bowl/jar/hat with all the folded bits of paper. Take one out complete the chore, then have a rest doing something you enjoy for a little while, then when you feel more calm, pick out another piece of paper and complete that job and so on. one job = 15/30 minute rest.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I do kind of see their point. When I was out of work, I always did pretty much all of the housework, shopping, a lot of the cooking and dealt with the pets. I was never forced to do any of those things but if I'm around not doing anything else then it would be quite selfish of me not to help out.

I suggest just approaching them quietly and be reasonable about it. Say that you are happy to help out and will do what you can but would appreciate some patience on their part (no barking orders at you like a slave!).


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

I guess your parents are as much in the thick of it as you are with the added worries that they have to keep a roof over their heads and yours....and in a way they are right, because you are able to take on some of the chores at home.
It's not an unreasonable demand.
I'm signed off work due to disability and illness but I still maintain my housework to a degree. I do as much as I can do each day and remain thankful I can still do as much as I do.
My kids help me alot with it but they don't complain (much) because I make sure to thank them and tell them how special they are for helping me and besides they live here too.
Sorry if you don't like what I have said but sooner or later you will have to depend on yourself and this period of your life won't seem so terrible when you look back on it. 
I'm sorry you have mental health issues but there comes a point where you have to stop blaming others and suck it up.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I know mental health issues can be every bit as disabling as physical disabilities but I can see their point. If you genuinely try and show them you can't they might see it better.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I've got a severe mental illness, had it since I was 15.. but still have a house to run/dogs to walk/appointments.

You'd have a lot more to do if you lived alone.. so I do see their point


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## gerbilmummy (Jul 25, 2013)

5headh said:


> Argh!! I am soo stressed!
> 
> Sounds really pathetic and trivial but I am soo stressed out!
> 
> ...


I think that is fair.

They work to pay the bills so they can keep a roof over their heads and yours, after a hard day at work they are not going to want to come home to piles of house work, as you are at home and don't have to work, doing the housework is fair.
I'd suggest talking to your support worker to ask for help to help you come up with a way of making it all less stressful for you.

I know someone who has severe mental health issues AND is physically disabled and she can do all her housework, with help for the bits she can not physically do. Some days she feels really bad physically or mentally, sometimes both, yet she does what she can.

I know you probably won't like hearing this but it's the truth.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I think it's fair that you all pull your weight in your house but maybe it's not so much that you have to do chores, maybe it's the way they ask you to do them which upsets you and is making you resent them? Are they always throwing it back in your face that you don't work a lot of the time? Do they thank you for doing them?. If they do this then I would have a word with them about it.

Just because you don't work it doesn't make you a lesser person than them and if it makes you feel that way when they keep bringing it up, then tell them how it makes you feel.


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## Calinyx (Oct 14, 2011)

Ok as a mum of two children with 'issues', here's what I would suggest.

Write down how you are feeling, explain fully what you are trying to achieve and how their opinion of you is adding to the stress.

By writing it down, it helps you clear your head of what is happening, it will allow them time to read what is going on without you getting emotional and [maybe] both parties becoming confrontational about things.

Once they've read your side of things, give them the chance to reply...both by writing a reply back, then by you all sitting down and talking about it.

They may not realise fully the extent of how your health issues are affecting not just you but them also.

[Does any of that make sense?]


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

sailor said:


> Being a parent... if my Child of any age came to me ranting and raving to get a point across, I wouldn't listen to them. So keep your rant to PF :lol:
> If they tried to do what was asked and then came to me and said they was struggling I would be more forgiving. I would try and help them to find a more practical way of getting through the chores without it seeming like a massive over load. Even if that meant, halving the jobs like only wash up and then I will dry up.
> 
> Maybe instead of making a massive long list of jobs you have to do that looks overwhelming... how about writing each chore on a bit of paper and filling a bowl/jar/hat with all the folded bits of paper. Take one out complete the chore, then have a rest doing something you enjoy for a little while, then when you feel more calm, pick out another piece of paper and complete that job and so on. one job = 15/30 minute rest.


hahaha that's why Im trying not to explode! lol!

I was left jobs today to clean conserventry/kitchen and cook dinner as well as walk the dogs and my appointments too.

I managed my appointments, to walk the dogs, and make dinner.. I swepted the rooms but will mop tomorrow.. 
My mum rang up to check I had done them, I told her what I had managed, she barked on about that's not enough.. I told her I wasn't her slave.. she replied 'well you are' 



labradrk said:


> I do kind of see their point. When I was out of work, I always did pretty much all of the housework, shopping, a lot of the cooking and dealt with the pets. I was never forced to do any of those things but if I'm around not doing anything else then it would be quite selfish of me not to help out.
> 
> I suggest just approaching them quietly and be reasonable about it. Say that you are happy to help out and will do what you can but would appreciate some patience on their part (no barking orders at you like a slave!).


I don't expect to sit and do nothing.. Obviously I don't mind helping out.. but its the fact they use the fact I am off work as a point that I should do all the housework..

Some days I can't even managed to wash myself let alone the house!



Lavenderb said:


> I guess your parents are as much in the thick of it as you are with the added worries that they have to keep a roof over their heads and yours....and in a way they are right, because you are able to take on some of the chores at home.
> It's not an unreasonable demand.
> I'm signed off work due to disability and illness but I still maintain my housework to a degree. I do as much as I can do each day and remain thankful I can still do as much as I do.
> My kids help me alot with it but they don't complain (much) because I make sure to thank them and tell them how special they are for helping me and besides they live here too.
> ...


If I lived on my own I would have days where the hovering can wait... my parents don't understand that.
They are very 'anti mental health' they also have VERY high standards and if its not done right you do it again!

as said in another reply I don't mind having to do some of the house work and help out.. but that fact they expect me to do it all!


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> I think it's fair that you all pull your weight in your house but maybe it's not so much that you have to do chores, maybe it's the way they ask you to do them which upsets you and is making you resent them? Are they always throwing it back in your face that you don't work a lot of the time? Do they thank you for doing them?. If they do this then I would have a word with them about it.
> 
> Just because you don't work it doesn't make you a lesser person than them and if it makes you feel that way when they keep bringing it up, then tell them how it makes you feel.


That's the main problem  I don't mind helping out at all.

Its the fact they insist that because I don't work I have to do ALL of the housework and if I don't do any one day its because I'm lazy... Not because I'm having a god awful day!

Not they don't thank me, they'll find something to moan about!


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

What Hayley means is they demand to do these things everyday. From what I've heard they are very unforgiving of her illness. Yes people!e have illnesses and get on with it, but when you have someone demanding to do these things and putting you down all the time you wonder why you bother. 

Don't think she meant cause she's I'll she shouldn't do anything.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Sorry you're struggling 5Headh  To be honest, I always think it is unhelpful to compare illnesses- everyone experiences disease and copes differently. 

Your only real choice is try and explain it to your family calmly how much this is affecting you and try and work out some sort of arrangement that is going to be satisfactory for your parents and not detrimental to your health.

A few years ago I was chronically ill (physical problems- kidneys blah blah blah). Even though everyone knew my problems/limitations and that I was trying my very best (they were with me in hospital all of the time!) there was still very little empathy, support or understanding. And the longer it went on the worse it was. That in and of itself was very isolating. 

Just remember it won't be forever. X


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm kinda on the fence about your situation. On the one hand your parents are kinda helping you out with keeping a roof over your head (one day you'll look back on this period of your life and miss what they did for you like I'm doing now) so a little house work is expected.
But I think the way they're going about asking you to do house work is wrong. I too get stressed if I'm continually asked to do things; I like to do them in my own time.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

House work doesn't have to be an issue.. Hoover say Monday, bleach the loo stack dishwasher... Then walk the dogs, this will take just the morning then you can have all afternoon to train the dog..
I thinking you just plod along doing work in the morning then you've nothing to get stressed about and save just Friday mornings for doing the shopping..

I wouldn't approach your parents and just got on with what you can! As long as the kitchen is clear the dog poo picked and the loos clean and your bedroom door is shut! The. Your parents can't moan!!


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

cloversmum said:


> I've got a severe mental illness, had it since I was 15.. but still have a house to run/dogs to walk/appointments.
> 
> You'd have a lot more to do if you lived alone.. so I do see their point


Believe it or not I too have a 'severe' mental illness... why that word makes it any more important I'll never know 

And I'm sure you have day where you struggle to shower let a lot clean the house, cook a full meal for a family and walk 2 sometimes 3 dogs of which 1 is yours?

As I have said many times.. I have NO problem helping out.. but because expected to do it all because 'im off work' is what I am annoyed about...
My sister is staying here for a few days.. her dog isn't house trained and chews but its me that's got to mop the floors?



gerbilmummy said:


> I think that is fair.
> 
> They work to pay the bills so they can keep a roof over their heads and yours, after a hard day at work they are not going to want to come home to piles of house work, as you are at home and don't have to work, doing the housework is fair.
> I'd suggest talking to your support worker to ask for help to help you come up with a way of making it all less stressful for you.
> ...


I have no problem helping out, its the way in which they treat me and use the fact I am off work as a meaning that I should do the house work.

And also look after THEY'RE dog that they haven't walked since about 2012!!

I am off work because I am unable to work! Surely if I was fit to get up at 9 everyday and do housework all day, look after dogs and cook meals I would be fit to work?!


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

astro2011 said:


> What Hayley means is they demand to do these things everyday. From what I've heard they are very unforgiving of her illness. Yes people!e have illnesses and get on with it, but when you have someone demanding to do these things and putting you down all the time you wonder why you bother.
> 
> Don't think she meant cause she's I'll she shouldn't do anything.


That's exactly what I meant Astro  Not to mention the comments and abuse I get when I do it wrong..

- - - - -

Trouble is with my parents is sometimes they want me to be 12 again... telling me I can't have a Mohawk, telling me off for dying my hair... then they say I am 20 so I have to do this this this and this..

And everyone going on about keeping a roof over my head.. I am only 20.. Should be out owning my own house by now?
My sister didn't move out until she was 25!


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

When I stayed at mums due to illness I was never expected to do anything. They knew I was unwell so obv I was a danger. Would they trust me with a knife or oven!? No chance! Hayley still isn't well yet is expected to do things that might be of danger. I'm sure her parents are well aware of her illness yet they chose to ignore it.

Also I'd expect my daughter still to be living with me at 20. Yes she will help with chores, but would I put her at danger if I knew? No.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

All in moderation is a good line to feed ones parent when they are being unfair! :yesnod: just out of interest how did it work when you also worked !!


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Ok we only have one side of the story to go on and so far there have been many comments in defence of your parents. Those are fair enough but there are always two sides.

Yes you are not working. Yes you would have to do everything if you were living alone. But if you were living alone they would also have to clean their own conservatory and walk their own dog. 

Ok you're not being lazy you have been signed unable to work. That could mean unable to hold down a job which is not the same as being unable to do some jobs. That said, we've all heard how ATOS is getting tough and certified a woman fit to work 2 weeks before she died, so you must be unwell if they have agreed this (you don't say if it's your GP or ATOS)

With reservations because of only having your rant to go on, it does sound like they are being a bit harsh in the way they are facing this issue. But in a family there is always a background so it would be foolish to judge them right or wrong here. 

However I will give you something to think about.

You have been given a diagnosis. In other words, a label. As it's already been pointed out, there are people with all sorts of problems who find a way to cope or overcome. Labels are not helpful, because they encourage people to hide behind them. 

What I'm saying is you have a choice - you can use your problems as a forever excuse, and be a victim of them. Or you can choose to recognise your limitations, learn to work with them, and lead as normal a life as you can with them. 

By all means be angry and rant, but make a good choice for YOU for the year ahead and the rest of your life.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

astro2011 said:


> When I stayed at mums due to illness I was never expected to do anything. They knew I was unwell so obv I was a danger. Would they trust me with a knife or oven!? No chance! Hayley still isn't well yet is expected to do things that might be of danger. I'm sure her parents are well aware of her illness yet they chose to ignore it.
> 
> Also I'd expect my daughter still to be living with me at 20. Yes she will help with chores, but would I put her at danger if I knew? No.


Our knives are like spoons so we're okay there  But they don't see it like that.. 
They know all to well about it; but they seem to think I make it up 
They think I use it as an excuse I am only unwell when it suits me! -.-!
I'm dreading them coming home now! Going to be in trouble 



piggybaker said:


> All in moderation is a good line to feed ones parent when they are being unfair! :yesnod: just out of interest how did it work when you also worked !!


Erm.. I can't really remember as I work 13/14 hour shifts and didn't spend much time at home!!
I kind of lived in my room and didn't eat at home so had NO mess to clean up.
Plus didn't have Alfred.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I would put the effort into trying and show them you genuinely tried but you can't keep up with their demands. I'd expect an adult child living at home to help out as best they could especially if they weren't working.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

ForeverHome said:


> Ok we only have one side of the story to go on and so far there have been many comments in defence of your parents. Those are fair enough but there are always two sides.
> 
> Yes you are not working. Yes you would have to do everything if you were living alone. But if you were living alone they would also have to clean their own conservatory and walk their own dog.
> 
> ...


Yeah I have been signed off by ATOS until Decemeber 2014 when my case is up for review. This was after a very long period of being very very unwell, of which my parents know full well about and they weren't exactly helpful.. but maybe they just don't know how to cope with it.

I am trying to work through them and lead a normal life as possible.. I have some days where I wake up and could blitz the whole house, not need sleep and walk miles with the dogs.. but then have days where I can't even eat or wash..
I do the best I can, I am only just starting work with my mental health team and trying to put myself into a routine and starting a new care plan so things are a bit all over the place.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> I would put the effort into trying and show them you genuinely tried but you can't keep up with their demands. I'd expect an adult child living at home to help out as best they could especially if they weren't working.


That's what I have done !
I made sure dinner was prepared and in the oven so everyone has dinner and I swept ready to mop tomorrow.
Aswell as walked the dogs.
Now I am knackered! :yesnod:


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

When I'm doing something that seems stressful I put music on and dance and sing to it (sort of) so if I'm washing the floor with a mop, the mop will go with the beat, silly I know but it helps the floor get washed without the stress


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

I think sticking the chores in a jar is a good idea - even if you don't get through it all but show that your making the effort they will likely lay off you a bit, I can see their point tbh, if they feel you are sitting around doing nothing and not contributing to the house now you are an adult it must be a little frustrating for them, if you really have a bad day and can't do them then instead of going off on one, calmly explain you are not feeling good and need a little break but you will try to do a few jobs. Nobody likes chores or housework but it has to be done, think of it as setting yourself up for living alone, you will move out one day and it's better to know how to do these things and look after yourself than not.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I live on my own and work. Other than minor things like wiping up and using the dishwasher I don't do 'house work' every day. I do have a gardener though as it isn't something I particularly enjoy. I've never seen housework as a big burden. Things like ironing I do whilst watching tv. My house is still neat and clean with two dogs. I wonder if it would be worth writing down what you do for a week and taking it to your appointment along with any comments made about it towards you. Then you can discuss whether it is reasonable and strategies to deal with it either way. They could also help you manage any negative comments that are made.


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

Hi - I normally hang around the cat chat section, but have poked my nose into general now a few times so hope this is helpful! 

Its very difficult to advise as you are obviously very poorly if you have been signed off for such a long time. 

I moved out when I was 18 due to my parents 'way of doing things', I realise this may not be possible for you. 

Try talking to your mental health worker about it and see if he/she will speak to your parents about how they give you chores and this feeling too stressful - your parents may have been advised to give your week or days at home structure, something for you to do to keep you going. They may think they are helping you? Maybe you agree some tasks and then work out when you do them yourself. 

Its great that you have a dog (I wish I could have one!) so you can get out every day and I'm sure walking theirs isnt' too much extra bother.  Long lists of must do jobs would really annoy me too - I like to do things at my own pace, even in my own home which annoys my OH no end as I do let things pile up sometimes and am a bad wifey


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Try and think what you CAN DO!!not what you cannot! and DO IT!...
and tell them what you doing!


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## Aeschylus (Sep 19, 2013)

I think it's fair enough to expect every member of the household to help out according to their capacity. But the key is negotiating within the limits of everyone's capacity. 

Someone who is unfit for work clearly doesn't have the capacity of a healthy person, and after all, housework is still work!

Someone who is well enough to work full time shouldn't expect to be relieved of their share of the housework just because another member of the household isn't in paid employment.

My kids are still quite young and they do some housework; my eldest daughter is depressed so she does less than the younger kids because her energy levels are quite low.

Unforunately, some parents are very difficult to negotiate with, but I do think it's worth trying as long as it's possible to keep the discussion calm.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

At the end of the day OP we all have ears and we are all here to listen , we know your poorly and i really feel for you having such a bumpy road ahead of you.. Chin up chick hang in there , give yourself time then when you feel strong enough then tackle your parents, don't do it whilst your fragile


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Lunabuma said:


> Hi - I normally hang around the cat chat section, but have poked my nose into general now a few times so hope this is helpful!
> 
> Its very difficult to advise as you are obviously very poorly if you have been signed off for such a long time.
> 
> ...


I spoke to my worker today as we had our weekly appointment.. She hadn't spoken to my parents, she isn't allowed to because of my age !
She did however suggest I get myself on the housing register and try and get myself a place asap as she feels being at home is holding me back.

I don't mind walking they're dog occasionally but he is so naughty and sometimes I just wanna have a relaxed walk with Alfred.



Aeschylus said:


> I think it's fair enough to expect every member of the household to help out according to their capacity. But the key is negotiating within the limits of everyone's capacity.
> 
> Someone who is unfit for work clearly doesn't have the capacity of a healthy person, and after all, housework is still work!
> 
> ...


I kind of tried to explain it to them, they're just hard to get through too lol.. Didn't have any jobs today but need to finish the ones from yesterday, however didn't wake up until 1.30!


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

piggybaker said:


> At the end of the day OP we all have ears and we are all here to listen , we know your poorly and i really feel for you having such a bumpy road ahead of you.. Chin up chick hang in there , give yourself time then when you feel strong enough then tackle your parents, don't do it whilst your fragile


Thanks for such a nice reply PB  
Feeling a bit more relaxed today.. Not been up long enough for anything to go wrong  And had a meeting with my worker!
Off to walk Alfred then fill in forms for the housing register.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

5headh said:


> That's exactly what I meant Astro  Not to mention the comments and abuse I get when I do it wrong..
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> ...


You aren't your sister  - don't assume that because she didn't move out until she was 25 that you're too young to have your own house because you're _only _20. What works for one doesn't for another - even amongst siblings.

I can remember the pressure my parents put on me when I was at home and not working. What was worse is that my brother seemed to be able to get out of doing his, by going out with his friends, or his girlfriend, and I wasn't like him - I was the home bird. Like yours, they left To Do lists for me, but, with hindsight (aint it wonderful? :001_rolleyes I can see they were preparing me for life on my own. Not long after I moved out, my mum was telling me about the daughter of a client who, at 19, was the mother of a 2y/o son, on Jobseekers, lived under her mum's roof and because her mum didn't make her do anything at all (and because the daughter abused that and _did _nothing at all - not even for her son - her mother did it all) when her mum married again and told her to get her own place, the daughter panicked because she didn't know how to turn the washing machine on, let alone look after herself or her son.

The day my mum told me that was the day I thanked both of my parents for "making me" do those chores around the house.

After that little parable, they can't be that hard on you if you don't have any chores to do today, just finishing off the ones you didn't manage to get done yesterday. 

Good luck with the house search


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I didn't move out until I was 24


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I do feel for you - but I feel more for the way you are told than what you are asked to do. 

Make the dinner and clean the conservatory/ kitchen - isn't a full days worth of chores. Like others have said do it all in the morning and then the rest of the day is yours.

Walking the dogs WILL take more time. 

I think the jar thing is a good thing - makes the tasks more manageable. 

I have ME and struggle to get out of bed sometimes too - but I make myself, otherwise life will be over in the blink of an eye and I will have done f all in it. 

I think you should try to get your own place - a) it will help you feel the independence you crave and b) will probably make you appreciate your parents more.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

I had a meeting with my support worker today, she suggested I get on the housing register as it will obviously take a while.

I filled the forms out this afternoon and got all ID ready to take in tomorrow


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

I feel for you OP, and have been in a similar situation so can empathise.

I'm bipolar - have been all my life, but only diagnosed 10yr ago after is caused all sorts of problems at home, when my parents accused me of being a loafer when I could barely get out of bed.

They too dictated my daily chores when I was off work sick, and as best I could I kept on top of them simply because doing them made me feel better than staying in bed doing sod-all all day. But I did get my name down for housing, and was lucky enough to get a council flat after a week of sleeping rough following an argument with my dad (certainly not so easy these days). 

Physical exertion is a good way of making mental inertia fade away - there is a clear clinical link between physical exercise and mental wellbeing, and that's what I'd focus on if I were you, I GET the not wanting to get out of bed or having the energy to do anything thing, but the more you force yourself to do it, the easier it will get. Honestly. Your resentment may not go away at the way you feel you've been forced into something, but it will get easier!

You do need to think about getting your own place where you can do what you feel you can cope with at your own pace, but I'd just want to say that that has it's pitfalls too! BECAUSE I can put the housework off, I do. And I am now too embarrassed about the state of my flat to have anyone visit me. It's not because I am lazy - I now work 60 hours a week - but no longer have anyone on my back to tidy up so it's easier not to. Please don't fall into that trap!!!!

Living with parents who don't seem to understand what you're going through can feel like hell, but perhaps they are trying to think about you and your illness more than you realise, by making you stick to a routine of chores that will at least keep you active and stop you wallowing!!

I'm sorry if this isn't the easy answer you wanted, but having lived through a lot of what you're currently experiencing, I'm just trying to be honest and helpful xx


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

I suffer from depression & anxiety. Some days I'm absolutely fine and enjoy getting out and thinking about how wonderful the world is. Other days, like today, I can hardly get out of bed and have felt like I've run a marathon twice all day. However, we all learn our coping strategies and what works for one won't work for another. My way of doing things is quite bizarre, I just think of whatever I am doing and put in terms of time till I have done it and can do what I want - for instance, when getting my sister ready for school today I got up at 7.30am, and pushed myself through by telling myself 'only an hour and a bit and you can come back home to bed', and for some reason it works. I think it's because the jobs don't become never-ending in my head. I don't think it's out of order for your parents to expect you to do housework or walk the dog, the way they ask could do with being changed mind. 

It's all about balance. I work, am in my third year of university and also suffer from pernicious anaemia (have to have B12 muscle injections every couple of months) which leaves me feeling drained and physically sick with tiredness. 

However, on the days when I am at home, or the mornings/afternoons I am expected to do things. If the kitchen needs doing I will do it, it shouldn't take more than an hour. Similarly if the floors need doing then I will do those etc. For instance, today I took my 4 year old sister to school in the morning, picked her up early for a doctors appointment which I took her too, and then brought her home for tea. The fact that I slept for four hours in between dropping her off & picking her up to go to the drs doesn't matter to my parents as they are just grateful for what I've done, similarly if I do the kitchen and nothing else they are grateful. The thing is they know I will get on and do things, so on days where I do feel really bad and don't manage to get up or do something they are a lot more understanding as they know normally I would. 

The most important thing is to take each job as it comes, don't think of it as a list, just get on with the jobs and try to just keep going and you will be surprised how quickly you get through them. 

I hope your worker helps you out, and good luck with your housing application!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

muffin789 said:


> I feel for you OP, and have been in a similar situation so can empathise.
> 
> I'm bipolar - have been all my life, but only diagnosed 10yr ago after is caused all sorts of problems at home, when my parents accused me of being a loafer when I could barely get out of bed.
> 
> ...


Could your parents be aware of this and are trying to help by keeping you active, giving you goals you can achieve?


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

5headh said:


> I spoke to my worker today as we had our weekly appointment.. She hadn't spoken to my parents, she isn't allowed to because of my age !
> *She did however suggest I get myself on the housing register and try and get myself a place asap as she feels being at home is holding me back.*


Funnily enough, as I have been reading the thread, this thought ^^^ has crossed my mind.

I know what it feels like having to live with a demanding parent and I wasn't ill like you are. If they have been like this all you life, one wonders if they have contributed to your poor health.

I agree that you need to find your own place and fast. If the authorities have told you that you are unfit for work, that does not mean you have to become their unpaid slave! If you were capable of doing all the jobs they have put upon you, you'd go and get a job as a housekeeper and be paid for it!!!!

My mum was a right Hyacinth Bucket and expected the house to be hoovered every day, bathroom and kitchen cleaned every day and dusting / polishing to be done every day. Any of the above missed and she'd hit the roof. She never got that this was OTT and not necessary. If you are being given the same workload, with cooking & dog walking on top, then it is no wonder you are getting stressed.

We all appreciate your parents are keeping a roof over your head at this difficult time and it is only fair you do your bit to help out. The crux lies on how big a 'bit' you are being expected to contribute. It needs to be sorted out what jobs MUST be done daily, done every 2nd day, every 3rd day and what can be done once a week. This will give you some structure in your life - not a bad thing when you have mental health issues - but it is not so rigid, time consuming or energy sapping.

If your parents disagree with this, put your foot down and tell them that, as they have given you the role of being their housekeeper, you will create a system that works best for you and they need to accept that.

Good luck and I hope you can get your own pad soon.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Funnily enough, as I have been reading the thread, this thought ^^^ has crossed my mind.
> 
> I know what it feels like having to live with a demanding parent and I wasn't ill like you are. If they have been like this all you life, one wonders if they have contributed to your poor health.
> 
> ...


That is why my care worker thinks I should move out, she feels they may be a contributing factor.
They haven't been to full on with the housework lately but I have had a lot of appointments and stuff on.

I brought up moving out to them to which my mum said 'you wouldn't cope and once you'ce gone your not coming back'


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

5headh said:


> That is why my care worker thinks I should move out, she feels they may be a contributing factor.
> They haven't been to full on with the housework lately but I have had a lot of appointments and stuff on.
> 
> *I brought up moving out to them to which my mum said 'you wouldn't cope and once you'ce gone your not coming back'*


:yikes: What a hideous thing to say to your child!!!! Support is obviously not their stong point I see.

If you are able, say no more about moving out as the responses will not help you. Just make quiet plans and keep them to yourself. Tell your care worker what they said to you and see if there are any strings she can pull to help you get something sooner.

I sounds to me like a portion of your troubles will ease greatly once you get away from the negativity they heap upon you.

You really do wonder sometimes why folks bother having kids!!!


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

ok,not having a go because obviously you dont post everything about yourself here,but fast forward a few years,one day you'll lose one of your parents and believe me its a massive kick in the teeth,of course theres always going to be ups and downs in your situation but you could try to be reasonable,just tell them that you'll do what you can,just try


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

skyblue said:


> ok,not having a go because obviously you dont post everything about yourself here,but fast forward a few years,one day you'll lose one of your parents and believe me its a massive kick in the teeth,of course theres always going to be ups and downs in your situation but you could try to be reasonable,just tell them that you'll do what you can,just try


The velocity of the kick is dependant on the quality of the parent! In the case of my mother, it would be a relief!


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

MoggyBaby said:


> The velocity of the kick is dependant on the quality of the parent! In the case of my mother, it would be a relief!


you say that now...but my mate was the same,didn't speak to his dad for over 20 years,a messy business to say the least......until his dad died and he was devastated


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

skyblue said:


> you say that now...but my mate was the same,didn't speak to his dad for over 20 years,a messy business to say the least......until his dad died and he was devastated


I agree. I suffered terrible abuse from my parents. Left home as soon as I could, and didn't see my parents.

My step dad died, and then back on 2002 my mum. While she was an awful mum, I loved her. I regret we didn't get to sort stuff out.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> :yikes: What a hideous thing to say to your child!!!! Support is obviously not their stong point I see.
> 
> If you are able, say no more about moving out as the responses will not help you. Just make quiet plans and keep them to yourself. Tell your care worker what they said to you and see if there are any strings she can pull to help you get something sooner.
> 
> ...


Yeah I do sometimes wonder too :/ My friends don't quite understand, what makes it harder for me is she is AMAZING with my bestfriends little boy.. I never saw that side of her 

I am quietly working through things now, Taking all my details into council tomorrow (need ID to support claim) then going to let my support worker know on Wednesday (when we next meet) how far I have got with things.

I want to move out and prove them wrong.. I know it is going to be hard, but its got to happen one day.



skyblue said:


> ok,not having a go because obviously you dont post everything about yourself here,but fast forward a few years,one day you'll lose one of your parents and believe me its a massive kick in the teeth,of course theres always going to be ups and downs in your situation but you could try to be reasonable,just tell them that you'll do what you can,just try


I don't 'hate' my mum as that is a strong word, but sometimes I wish she wasn't my mum... We don't get on, I don't think she quite gets the *parent* part of things, doesn't mean I want anything to happen to her, and that I wouldn't miss her if something did happen BUT I feel my early family life (and present) is part of my problem... And currently living at home is not helping.. She is not at all supportive, so I feel moving out would help.


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## xgemma86x (Feb 13, 2009)

MoggyBaby said:


> :yikes: What a hideous thing to say to your child!!!! Support is obviously not their stong point I see.
> 
> If you are able, say no more about moving out as the responses will not help you. Just make quiet plans and keep them to yourself. Tell your care worker what they said to you and see if there are any strings she can pull to help you get something sooner.
> 
> ...


My parents said the same thing to me about moving out. They said its so hard and that once I go then I won't be allowed back. I suppose they thought I was being too 'ambitious' about moving out. I think it's only recently hit them that I'm serious and even now they refuse to talk about it or the fact that il soon be making wedding plans.

OP-Although I'm not ill like you are,my parents are still very much demanding like yours are. I live with them and my older brother (he's 34 and never worked a day in his life). Despite being the only 1 that worked full time (I've recently been laid off) they would expect me to go and work an 8 hour shift then come home and do the housework!! I'm all for doing my fair share but when there's 3 of them at home NOT working then why should I do it all?? Personally I think you're doing the right thing by moving out. Just don't let them tell you that you won't cope because you WILL!


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

5headh said:


> That is why my care worker thinks I should move out, she feels they may be a contributing factor.
> They haven't been to full on with the housework lately but I have had a lot of appointments and stuff on.
> 
> *I brought up moving out to them to which my mum said 'you wouldn't cope and once you'ce gone your not coming back'*


I had that too, and tbh it made me all the more determined to move out, stay out, and prove them wrong - and so far I have. Living under the same roof as them now would be intolerable all round, and even though we're nearly 15 years down the line I would still hate to give them the satisfaction.

I hope all your appointments have gone well, op, and that the waiting list for housing in your area is not as long as it is where I live. Obviously it depends on what priority you're given and hopefully with the support you're getting you shouldn't be classed as low priority.

Sending you hugs, hon, and hoping things have been manageable in the last few days xxx


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

muffin789 said:


> I had that too, and tbh it made me all the more determined to move out, stay out, and prove them wrong - and so far I have. Living under the same roof as them now would be intolerable all round, and even though we're nearly 15 years down the line I would still hate to give them the satisfaction.
> 
> I hope all your appointments have gone well, op, and that the waiting list for housing in your area is not as long as it is where I live. Obviously it depends on what priority you're given and hopefully with the support you're getting you shouldn't be classed as low priority.
> 
> Sending you hugs, hon, and hoping things have been manageable in the last few days xxx


Its all gone really quickly!! I filled in my housing forms on the 15th, got my appointment to take my ID and complete a medical form yesterday and can already log onto the website to view the available properties!

I cannot yet bid as they haven't decided what 'band' to put me in... But how exciting!

Things haven't been to bad lately, my parents haven't been home much and when they have I haven't.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I agree with what some others on here have said, while it's not for you to be their slave, if you are indoors, doing some odd jobs isn't so bad and actually helps mental health conditions. 
Maybe your parents ask you as you have shown you can take care of someone else's child for them, so seen as they are at work, ask you to do a few bits too.

Can I ask how if you are on out of work benefits you can afford a place to yourself?  I just have no idea how it could even work, or do they help with all your household bills too?


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm sorry but I absolutely cannot understand how you are going to have a place of your own? 

I am 28 work full time and would struggle to afford a place of my own with rent, council tax, bills and utilities etc.
Hence I still live at home with my mum (I do pay half of everything because I earn slightly more than my mum also) 



My mind is boggling?


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## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

I have similar issues to you, but am now doing well after 4/5 years of treatment, I have been a full time carer for my mum for even longer and refused to stop this, I found that if I managed the housework doing a couple of things a day, and taking the rest as it comes, each thing I noticed needed doing got done, I didn't make my self a huge list of things to do because it stressed me out and I got really nasty towards everyone, wich according to my doctors would do nothing but slow my progress. I found being with the animals really therapeutic - I have more time for them then I do for most people lolx


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## gerbilmummy (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm sorry but I can not understand how you are going to be able to cope in your own home.

You get stressed doing the housework at your parents home, so how would you manage in your own place? 

There are also bills to pay and really the reality of living alone is different then what I think you imagine.

Don't get me wrong, I suffer from mental health and I live alone, while my support worker of the time thought me moving out from where I was was the best thing for me, as I was very mentally ill there, she also was concerned that the realities of living alone was not as I imagined and I would have a big shock. 
To start with it was scary and I wondered if I'd done the right thing, but after the initial stresses I am happy here and I think I'm doing OK. 
However when I'm having a bad patch and I don't want to get up, don't want to do housework etc, you have to force yourself as no one else will do it for you.

I'm not trying to put you off, I just want you to understand the realities.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

gerbilmummy said:


> I'm sorry but I can not understand how you are going to be able to cope in your own home.
> 
> You get stressed doing the housework at your parents home, so how would you manage in your own place?
> 
> ...


I agree. I've lived alone since I was 16 and been ill since I was 15 (bipolar)

Living alone is blinking hard work. Everything comes down to you. Bill to pay ( yes you may get council tax/housing benefit) but everything else has to be paid.

I have a intense support package and still struggle. It maybe what you need, but please understand the realities.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

gerbilmummy said:


> I'm sorry but I can not understand how you are going to be able to cope in your own home.
> 
> You get stressed doing the housework at your parents home, so how would you manage in your own place?
> 
> ...


I agree I am surprised at everyone urging the op to move out actually - and her parents aren't abusive as is being suggested in other posts they are giving her some bloody chores to do and she is throwing a little tantrum - it's not abuse, and for people living with a mental health sufferer it can actually be very tiring and difficult too - which often seems to get forgotten about! op I bet your parents are working hard to provide you with a roof over your head and food in your belly, even if they say insensitive things at times they are probably struggling with your illness and just don't know what to do anymore - don't we all say stupid things when tired and stressed - why not write them a letter or ask if they can/will go with you to see a councillor then you can ALL talk about how it's affecting each of you, try resolve things a little.

I moved out when I was 18 and it wasn't easy, the bills were daunting, my mum and dad had to bail me out a few times, I had to be taught how to pay bills, which you will to, it's not cheap, and it's not easy and the stress of those things might not be helpful for you, especially if you are not able to manage to do the chores set for you - just something to think about.


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## gerbilmummy (Jul 25, 2013)

redroses2106 said:


> *I agree I am surprised at everyone urging the op to move out actually - and her parents aren't abusive as is being suggested in other posts they are giving her some bloody chores to do and she is throwing a little tantrum - it's not abuse,* and for people living with a mental health sufferer it can actually be very tiring and difficult too - which often seems to get forgotten about! op I bet your parents are working hard to provide you with a roof over your head and food in your belly, even if they say insensitive things at times they are probably struggling with your illness and just don't know what to do anymore - don't we all say stupid things when tired and stressed - why not write them a letter or ask if they can/will go with you to see a councillor then you can ALL talk about how it's affecting each of you, try resolve things a little.
> 
> I moved out when I was 18 and it wasn't easy, the bills were daunting, my mum and dad had to bail me out a few times, I had to be taught how to pay bills, which you will to, it's not cheap, and it's not easy and the stress of those things might not be helpful for you, especially if you are not able to manage to do the chores set for you - just something to think about.


I agree with the bit in bold, it's not abuse, and trust me I know what abuse is.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Hayley hasn't told you half of the abuse she gets. You'll also find with just one person in the house the bills, work ect is far less. She needs to be independent and if her care worker thinks it's best than maybe it is. I suffer from a 'severe' mental illness and live with my OH who works mon-fri so I'm in most of the time alone. Hayley and I have the same kind of support and I manage to do it so I don't see why she can't. 

Loads of people manage to survive alone on benefits so I don't see why she can't.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Unfortunately it is not just your parents but a lot of people who don't understand mental illnesses. There is nothing to show a person isn't well, to your parents you are fit and able bodied and capable of doing the household chores.

It may be that they fully understand and are using household chores as a way of helping you.

Try to look at it this way, if you were working the dogs would have to be taken care off before and after work so that can continue. I suggest as Sailor has suggested, do one job at a time say two jobs a day and make dinner.

I had set jobs for set days, when I was at home all day (not ill, just a mum and housewife).

If you were on your own these jobs would still have to be done and if and when you are able to work fitted around your working life.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I hate it when you get half a story - give your advice based on that only to find out you don't know everything. How can we be expected to give good advice if we don't know? And if those details are not willing to be shared then maybe don't ask - as people will get upset at the responses when they aren't what they expected to hear.

To me this sounded like a moaning whinging teenager ( and I have a couple of those myself) who found doing two jobs a day whilst her parents were out at work unreasonable and manipulative. Well, based on those facts that's what came across.

At 11 I had 3 chores a day to do around the house, as both my parents worked full-time - I was at school, had homework, belonged to the hockey team so had late night training 2 times a week as well as after school matches, I was in a band and did that 2 times a week too AND I had a paper round every morning and twice at the weekends. I was in charge of the dog and the cats. I was bullied relentlessly at school and was a fairly remorseful morbid child, I definitely had 'issues'. But I didn't complain once about my chores. 

SO if there are other issues then you either come clean and say or at least allude to it - otherwise there is no point anyone posting an answer.

Grrr - moan over.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

astro2011 said:


> Hayley hasn't told you half of the abuse she gets. You'll also find with just one person in the house the bills, work ect is far less. She needs to be independent and if her care worker thinks it's best than maybe it is. I suffer from a 'severe' mental illness and live with my OH who works mon-fri so I'm in most of the time alone. Hayley and I have the same kind of support and I manage to do it so I don't see why she can't.
> 
> Loads of people manage to survive alone on benefits so I don't see why she can't.


I assume though that your OH is at home nights and weekends? It's not the same as living alone.

I don't understand in what context you use the word "Independent". How can someone be independent when they feel unable to do a few chores in their Parents' home and don't work for a living?

My Sister suffers from Bi-Polar, but she works and keeps her apartment immaculate.


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## gerbilmummy (Jul 25, 2013)

astro2011 said:


> Hayley hasn't told you half of the abuse she gets. You'll also find with just one person in the house the bills, work ect is far less. She needs to be independent and if her care worker thinks it's best than maybe it is. I suffer from a 'severe' mental illness and live with my OH who works mon-fri so I'm in most of the time alone. Hayley and I have the same kind of support and I manage to do it so I don't see why she can't.
> 
> Loads of people manage to survive alone on benefits so I don't see why she can't.


But you living with your husband is completely different from living alone. 
You, I'm sure, have the support from your husband, as well as from M.H. services.

As I said, I live alone, and I manage, but it is hard work, from what I've read, not just on here, but on the M.H. thread as well, I felt I needed to express my concerns, as have others.

I'm not saying don't try as the op wants to leave and her support worker thinks it is for the best, just trying to show the realities of it all.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Why should you have to explain the full story to strangers? I'm sorry but it was a rant as clearly stated on the thread title! Is this a bash at people on benefits cause in sure there are a few people on here who are. Everyone's situation is different so comparing yourself is totally wrong.

I'm actually leaving this I'm that angry!


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

I can't reply to well as im on my tablet with a sleeping baby on me. 

I am moving out because of the constant abuse and bullying, my support worker knows the full story hence her suggestion. 

I'm not going to post my whole life on an open forum to be called an attention seeker!

I will have housing benefit and my esa *sits and waits abuse fir benefits*


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Ps some people do better on their own. I also don't have a lot of support from either my family or the services. A lot of people move out cause they struggle with their family, but if Hayley doesn't feel comfortable giving the whole story she shouldn't have to.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Where on earth did I mention benefits? Where did anyone have a go at people on benefits?

I don't work - I don't claim benefits but I wish I was able to!

It is galling to offer advice on a subject and only have 1/2 the story. Sorry, if you don't get that, but it is true. I have limited energy (as I have ME) and 'found' the time to make a comment etc and of course, it was ignored because it didn't meet the requirements as only half the story was known! So for me, I wasted some precious energy answering a post that was, for me, pointless. Energy I could have spent elsewhere.

There isn't a monopoly on being poorly. Or on having an opinion.

EDIT: neither have I called anyone an attention seeker.

And you don't have to tell it all just say '_this is the tip of the iceberg, and there is a lot more going on that my SW knows about but I don't feel comfortable discussing it on an open forum_' - that lets people know that it ISN'T just about being asked to clean the conservatory and making dinner but about a lot more and they can tailor their responses. To me, it's only polite.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm sorry, but I strongly suspect that by Hayley not feeling obliged to give "The Whole Story", she means she wants to put over her own side of the story.

There are two sides to every story, but we are hearing only one.

When you come onto a forum to "Rant", it's unreasonable to expect that people will not give their opinion and it may not always be what you would like.

If you don't want peoples' opinions, or for those people to express concerns, then keep it to yourself.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

I think if you read a lot of people said how are you gonna afford a house if I can't...to me that's having a go. I never said anyone specific did I?

I've said in a reply before that people didn't know the full story. I'm sorry you suffer from an illness and that you wasted time replying, but a lot of people won't share the full story to strangers.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

People asking how she is going to afford her own house whilst on benefits is not them "Having a Go".

It's a perfectly reasonable question. It seems to me that the only real requirement here was for all of us to say nice things and not voice our true opinions.

It appears the Truth wasn't wanted. The Truth hurts sometimes, doesn't it?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

astro2011 said:


> I think if you read a lot of people said how are you gonna afford a house if I can't...to me that's having a go. I never said anyone specific did I?
> No but you replied right after me and in the same breathe mention the whole story.
> 
> I've said in a reply before that people didn't know the full story. I'm sorry you suffer from an illness and that you wasted time replying, but a lot of people won't share the full story to strangers.


I wasted 'energy'; far more valuable than time.

Even when working full time and moving into my own house I was astonished at how hard it was to keep up with the bills etc. It isn't easy, whether you work or are on benefits. Christ, I have nearly adult children and we STILL struggle some months, and my hubby earns a decent wage. I think people were just saying it isn't always a bed of roses. And the loneliness of being completely alone (especially at night when it's very scary) can be awful.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

I imagine the ops parents would be horrified and devastated to read of this "abuse" tbh - I think everyone needs to remember her parents would possibly tell a very different version of events. nobody bashed being on benefits either - but the reality is that on benefits or working full time having your own place is not cheap, and when it's your first time standing on your own two feet it's not easy and if someone can't do chores daily then how do they realistically expect to be able to keep a home, pay bills, deal with any problems that need seeing to like repairs etc, I think that her parents giving her a list of things to do is probably them trying their best to get her up and doing something instead of staying in bed all day - that's not good for anyone and without the daily kick up the bum then perhaps the op would just fall deeper and deeper into her illness.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

astro2011 said:


> Why should you have to explain the full story to strangers? I'm sorry but it was a rant as clearly stated on the thread title! Is this a bash at people on benefits cause in sure there are a few people on here who are. Everyone's situation is different so comparing yourself is totally wrong.
> 
> I'm actually leaving this I'm that angry!


I don't know who bashed anyone, but how on earth anyone can get their own place, pay gas, electric, rent etc on out of work benefits is beyond me. Plus the OP has stated before she cannot have money without spending it all, even at expense of putting some away for her dogs vet bills, so I think living on her own and having to do everything and pay for everything (unless she will get EVERYTHING paid for her), I just think is quite a task.

Forgive me though, are these abusive parents the same ones who took her to get her new bike?


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

I'm out of this.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> I don't know who bashed anyone, but how on earth anyone can get their own place, pay gas, electric, rent etc on out of work benefits is beyond me. Plus the OP has stated before she cannot have money without spending it all, even at expense of putting some away for her dogs vet bills, so I think living on her own and having to do everything and pay for everything (unless she will get EVERYTHING paid for her), I just think is quite a task.
> 
> Forgive me though, are these abusive parents the same ones who took her to get her new bike?


Well said.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I have to be careful with my spending running a house, paying a mortgage and running a car. I've not spent any money on myself this month apart from the essentials due to the car (its so far has had four visits; only had to pay for two of them thankfully) to the toyota garage, latest was a flat tyre costing me £70 which I wasn't expecting so living life alone is no picnic.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Wiz201 said:


> I have to be careful with my spending running a house, paying a mortgage and running a car. I've not spent any money on myself this month apart from the essentials due to the car (its so far has had four visits; only had to pay for two of them thankfully) to the toyota garage, latest was a flat tyre costing me £70 which I wasn't expecting so living life alone is no picnic.


Just wanted to say I 'liked' for your explanation on how careful with money you need to be, not on what's happened.

Just to say I am on benefits and even though I managed it's not easy. The only thing payed for me is rent (housing benefit) and council tax, and I consider myself lucky, I know others out there who are not so lucky.

I have to pay for: food, electric, water, gas, sewerage, telephone, plus all the other stuff you need to look after the home and stay healthy etc.

I think it would be a good idea to making a log of everything you spend money on, be it a packet of sweets right up to fuel for the bike - make a note of everything. Then maybe go round a supermarket and make a note of how much a food shop would cost per week/fortnight/month - however you would do it, and see how much you have left per month for all the bills and practice looking after your money now, rather then getting in debt shortly after moving out.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> I don't know who bashed anyone, but how on earth anyone can get their own place, pay gas, electric, rent etc on out of work benefits is beyond me. Plus the OP has stated before she cannot have money without spending it all, even at expense of putting some away for her dogs vet bills, so I think living on her own and having to do everything and pay for everything (unless she will get EVERYTHING paid for her), I just think is quite a task.
> *
> Forgive me though, are these abusive parents the same ones who took her to get her new bike?*


That's what confuses me, because I'm sure last year her Mum had bought tickets for Crufts, and when ill they'd bought a load of medicine.

I'm always slightly apprehensive about online attacks where the other person can't give their side to things.


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

think you need to think long and hard before moving out of your parents home , i have four children , three of which have now left home , all of which thought it would be easy , sadly they are finding out the hard way , its also not fun when you have to bail your kids out when they dont step up to their responsibilities , i always said i wouldnt once they had left , hard saying no when you know they are really struggling , think every parent says these things when in reality they dont mean it. being brutally honest think your being rather hard on them , think they are being perfectly fair if your home all day , its what i would expect from my own , mental illness or not , if i were supporting them providing a roof over their heads. hell of a lot harder on your own , my three work , all hold down good jobs , still they struggle , so godknows what it would be like for someone in receipt of benefits.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I think before moving it would be an idea for the OP to get on paper the outgoings, and what benefits would cover

Rent - covered all or part?
Council tax - covered all or part?
Elec bill estimate (ask a supplier for average based on property size)
Gas bill estimate (as above)
Tv License (if you have a tv)
Line rental & broadband (if you want internet)
Food
Any travel req'd funds (bus allowance etc to collect benefits)
Home insurance (contents)
Pet insurance (if you want to safeguard against unexpected bills)

Then initial outlay of Furniture, kitchen appliances/crockery/cutlery etc etc

Once your happy you can cover the bills consider the daily tasks that would be required. Also consider living alone with regards to the area youd move to, neighbours etc. 

It is a massive step, I moved out at 17 but to a house share and found it a huge system shock but you do adjust - obviously if you have MH issues that may affect how quickly or well you adjust but if your confident your able to do so without too much ill effect then go for it. But dont rush into it as its not all roses. Your parents clearly love you and may be acting out of "tough love" thinking its the best way to help you - keep you busy as it were, and dont fully understand how to deal with your issues any other way

(my parents are similar, my step bro was out of work and kicked out of college for his own reasons... he had a daily wake up call at 7am, left a list of chores everyday, his dad called to check he was doing them throughout the day - they also removed the router, sky card and games consoles to stop him "wasting time" and to force him to do something more productive... I dont think he appreciated it)


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

First off remember abuse isnt just physical!

Just because I was given medicine when I was ill and given a birthday present does not me I am noy ridiculed, bullied and made to feel like I am aj alien in my own family!

Alot of my friends and some family bring up the way I am treated so I am not a teenager havibg a tantrum! 

Im on disability benefit so have enough to live off. I understand it will not ve a ravishing and adventurous life but I will be living MY life


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## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

Don't forget that you can get pay as you go electric and gas which makes it easier if you find bills daunting


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

5headh said:


> First off remember abuse isnt just physical!
> 
> Just because I was given medicine when I was ill and given a birthday present does not me I am noy ridiculed, bullied and made to feel like I am aj alien in my own family!
> 
> ...


I would still get it on paper if i were you  It really helps understand where the money needs to be used, and what you can save for a rainy day. Its something I do whenever I move - Iv been independant for 12 yrs and still do it, it helped massively when I was preparing to buy my house last year.

I am happy to help you with this if you want help- I have a spread sheet


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

astro2011 said:


> Hayley hasn't told you half of the abuse she gets. You'll also find with just one person in the house the bills, work ect is far less. She needs to be independent and if her care worker thinks it's best than maybe it is. I suffer from a 'severe' mental illness and live with my OH who works mon-fri so I'm in most of the time alone. Hayley and I have the same kind of support and I manage to do it so I don't see why she can't.
> 
> Loads of people manage to survive alone on benefits so I don't see why she can't.


There are some inconsistencies in some of what Hayley says sometimes. Whether that's the mental illness I don't know but she is mentally able enough to pass her motorcycle test and look after a friends baby. I don't want to sound awful but well there is no way on this earth I would allow anyone in her mental state who also self harms to look after my kids let alone a baby.

You have only heard her account of things, don't forget that.


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## gerbilmummy (Jul 25, 2013)

5headh said:


> *First off remember abuse isnt just physical!*
> 
> Just because I was given medicine when I was ill and given a birthday present does not me I am noy ridiculed, bullied and made to feel like I am aj alien in my own family!
> 
> ...


I know, and I'm sure others know that abuse is not just physical. Please try and calm down, we don't know the full story, and I for one don't want to know the full story, but we are just expressing concerns.

Please consider some of the good advice you have been given re about dealing with money.

Also I would strongly advise maybe having family counselling.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

gerbilmummy said:


> I know, and I'm sure others know that abuse is not just physical. Please try and calm down, we don't know the full story, and I for one don't want to know the full story, but we are just expressing concerns.
> 
> *Please consider some of the good advice you have been given re about dealing with money.*
> 
> Also I would strongly advise maybe having family counselling.


Definatly, money management (especially when its tight) is one of the most stressful and worrying aspect of living alone!


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

5headh said:


> I can't reply to well as im on my tablet with a sleeping baby on me.
> 
> I am moving out because of the constant abuse and bullying, my support worker knows the full story hence her suggestion.
> 
> ...


No one should have to post their life on here.

Hayley has mental health problems and lives with them day after day. Only she knows what that is like.

Her parents have a daughter with mental health problems, living at home, and only they know what the strain of that is like.

All Hayley wanted to do is sound off a bit. Why shouldn't she? Better than arguing at home, surely?

It might seem logical, and even beneficial for her to do some housework while she is at home, and others are working - and it could be argued that doing a bit at home will help her when she has own place, whenever that is.

But if the demands are too great or they are made in the wrong way, that could surely do more damage to her health?

So a middle ground of offering to do a few daily jobs seems a good idea.

It is up to Hayley to do what she thinks is best, even though it seems a big decision to leave home. And Hayley, benefits don't come into it - if you are entitled, you are entitled. Full stop. I bet you would give them up in a heartbeat if you could magically be made well.

I do think though, that it is useful to talk to others with MH problems similar to yours, that do live alone, for the reality of how it is. Hopefully, you would have a professional support network, as it sounds as though you would not be able to go to your family.

Good luck. Take care.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Summersky said:


> No one should have to post their life on here.
> 
> Hayley has mental health problems and lives with them day after day. Only she knows what that is like.
> 
> ...


I agree that nobody should have to post about their life on here, Hayley CHOSE to post about her life.

Your point that all she wanted to do was sound off and why shouldn't she is fair, but again, she has to expect to receive a response and that response may not necessarily be what she wanted to hear.

I still don't like the fact that she has publicly accused her Parents of being abusive and they have had no opportunity to defend themselves. I think that shows great immaturity on her part and that alone would cause some people to wonder if she is mature enough to be responsible for her own home.

It still doesn't answer the question, asked several times, how she can afford to set up in a home of her own and take responsibility for paying all bills and expenses when her only income is benefits.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Sweety said:


> I agree that nobody should have to post about their life on here, Hayley CHOSE to post about her life.
> 
> Your point that all she wanted to do was sound off and why shouldn't she is fair, but again, she has to expect to receive a response and that response may not necessarily be what she wanted to hear.
> 
> ...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I agree absolutely that we all have a moan from time to time and nothing wrong with that.

However, posting on here for a quick moan because your OH has trapped the dog's tail in the door is a World away from accusing your Parents publicly of abusing you.

That's a major issue and I just wonder how devastated Hayley's Parents would be if they were to read all that has been said about them?


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

> *Perhaps others on here in the same position can explain?* Or perhaps, once the sums are done, to will prove to be wishful thinking on Hayley's part, t e able to afford to leave home. It certainly needs to be carefully looked at before she commits herself.
> 
> For some people, coming on here for a moan is likely to be the equivalent of moaning to real life friends. And how many times do we have a moan about our OHs, when they are not there to defend themselves? Sometimes it is just a way to get it out of your system. But of course, sometimes, it is much more complex than that.


It's difficult to do that as there are quite a few different benefits and with some there are differing amounts of what you are entitled to.
Plus bills are different for everyone, also depending on the company you use, the area you live in etc etc.

The best thing would be for Hayley to do some research.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

It is possible to get a place of your own and I'm not talking about a house but maybe a flat or a room in a house. With the right support you can manage the bills but you have to juggle your needs just the same as anyone else.
So the house chores are for you to do when you feel like it but left too long and its slips into chaos quickly.
You definately need a support network around you so that if things lapse it can be taken into consideration but rules is rules and if you don't keep to contracts or agreements you will still get the red final demand bills coming through your door.


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Jesus :huh:

When she used the word 'abuse' she didn't mean abuse abuse; she wasn't 'accusing them of abuse' per se; it was a bad term of phrase.

Secondly, because someone self harms in no way means they are a danger when looking after children or, indeed, to anyone else. I had all that sh*t from friends parents and that was in the mid 90's; I was hoping awareness had moved on. Twud appear not.

Thirdly, yes she has mental health problems but she's quite normal when you get to actually know her. As in know her as a friend. She's high functioning, caring and very funny (can't believe I feel I have to say this :frown2: )

Who cares if you're hearing half the story? She had a quick rant like everyone else has on here at times and that was that.

It's been taken WAY out of context.

Eesh.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> There are some inconsistencies in some of what Hayley says sometimes. Whether that's the mental illness I don't know but she is mentally able enough to pass her motorcycle test and look after a friends baby. I don't want to sound awful but well there is no way on this earth I would allow anyone in her mental state who also self harms to look after my kids let alone a baby.
> 
> You have only heard her account of things, don't forget that.


People who self harm are VERY unlikely to cause harm to anyone else. 1 out of 4 adults suffer from mh.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Jesus :huh:
> 
> When she used the word 'abuse' she didn't mean abuse abuse; she wasn't 'accusing them of abuse' per se; it was a bad term of phrase.
> 
> ...


To be fair, I don't think people are just saying about self harm.

In the mental health thread it has been mentioned a few times that thoughts of harming/hurting others has been thought of, I think that's what people are thinking of.

ETA, re the abuse, she must be saying it is bad to be given a home because of it.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Flamingoes said:


> Jesus :huh:
> 
> When she used the word 'abuse' she didn't mean abuse abuse; she wasn't 'accusing them of abuse' per se; it was a bad term of phrase.
> 
> ...


I'm genuinely confused now, what else can 'abuse' mean?

IMH the word abuse should not be used lightly.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Right!

I am on a laptop now so hopefully give some answers to everyones questions!

1) I can look after my friends baby once in a while, if I am having a bad day.. Feeling unsteady and/or at risk to myself or anyone else.. I will tell my friend I cannot look after him... Like I did last Friday (just ask Astro, I was meant to be babysitting, ended up sleepin all afternoon as that's all I felt I could do to ensure I was safe)
AND; I have NEVER I repeat NEVER self harm while I have been looking after him, I would never ever put him at that risk!

2) Yes I used the term abuse.. bullying is a form of abuse, as is the things they say, You don't hear any of the things I am called or told about myself... I have been bullied long enough to know what it is!
Yes you have only heard my side of the story take me for what I said or be quite either way 

3) My support worker was the one to suggest I move out, she thinks it will help my recovery, hence why she is helping me with the forms.
She is going to get me in touch with a team that helps you manage your money, helps you shopping, helps you pay bills.

4) Not that it is any of anyones business but I am on the high rate of ESA which is more than enough to live off in a flat/bedsit with housing benefit, my cousin does it quite happily (suffers psychosis) and he smokes and takes drugs.

5) I am going to look into how much things cost, I have a friend that lives on her own and know all to well how hard it is as I have had to help her out sometimes!


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> There are some inconsistencies in some of what Hayley says sometimes. Whether that's the mental illness I don't know but she is mentally able enough to pass her motorcycle test and look after a friends baby. I don't want to sound awful but well there is no way on this earth I would allow anyone in her mental state who also self harms to look after my kids let alone a baby.
> 
> You have only heard her account of things, don't forget that.


I passed my bike test when I was 17 nearly 4 years ago BEFORE things had got extra bad BEFORE somethings happened.
When I was working 14 hours a day, things change!

What inconsistencies are we on about here? I'm curious.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

5headh said:


> Right!
> 
> I am on a laptop now so hopefully give some answers to everyones questions!
> 
> ...


Oh? Your Cousin is on a high rate of ESA? Could it be his drug using that causes his psychosis?

Why do you say it isn't anyone's business what benefits you're on? If it's nobody's business, why are you making it public on a forum? :mad2::mad2:


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

I've said my piece.

I'm not arguing a friends private life out over the internet; if she wishes to that's her prerogative, I have no right to and so I'm out.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Oh? Your Cousin is on a high rate of ESA? Could it be his drug using that causes his psychosis?
> 
> Why do you say it isn't anyone's business what benefits you're on? If it's nobody's business, why are you making it public on a forum? :mad2::mad2:


No its not the drugs causing his psychosis! 

I said because everyone was going on about it :w00t:


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

5headh said:


> No its not the drugs causing his psychosis!
> 
> I said because everyone was going on about it :w00t:


Oh I just have to say what I really think now. The Benefits System in this Country was never intended to enable someone like your Cousin to sit, happy as a Sandboy, in his own property, smoking cigarettes and using drugs.

Both cigarettes and drugs are very, very costly.

And the Taxpayer is footing the bill for him to have his independence and do what he likes all day.

Why are my two Sons working long, long hours to pay for their own homes?


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

just to say my advice re money wasn't a criticism on you... just general friendly advise I would give anyone looking at moving out of the family home.

it is something that has always helped me anyway....

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

5headh said:


> No its not the drugs causing his psychosis!
> 
> I said because everyone was going on about it :w00t:


but it sure won't help. It's a fact drugs cause/compound psychosis


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Yes he shouldn't be on drugs, but again you can't say what someone spends their money on. Majority of people aren't on benefits their whole life's and are only on it when they need support.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

astro2011 said:


> Yes he shouldn't be on drugs, but again you can't say what someone spends their money on. Majority of people aren't on benefits their whole life's and are only on it when they need support.


His money? Really?

I don't think so.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Yes his money! People think cause they pay tax it's their money. How do you know if he ever contributed to the system?


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Hayley, do you have any other forums you can talk about this on? I'm not saying you shouldn't post about it here but merely asking if you have other outlets perhaps where your issues will be more understood.

I will be honest, I find it hard to understand how you can control your self harm when you are baby sitting but then I'm no expert on MH. The subject as a whole interests me as I have m.e/cfs which brings anxieties of its own, but I can never control them so I can partake in social activities. If I'm having a really bad day then nothing helps and theres nothing I can do to control it. 

I just think there is a lack of understanding here because its a pet forum and not a MH forum.....I do hope you understand what I mean. I find it hard to discuss my anxieties here because I don't expect anyone to understand it.
I do hope you succeed at finding your own place though as that is a big step for you and a very positive one.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

astro2011 said:


> Yes his money! People think cause they pay tax it's their money. How do you know if he ever contributed to the system?


Absolute rubbish I'm afraid.


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

astro2011 said:


> Yes his money! People think cause they pay tax it's their money. How do you know if he ever contributed to the system?


even if he did or ever has , benefits are not there to enable others to sit doing drugs and smoking all day


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

astro2011 said:


> Yes he shouldn't be on drugs, but again you can't say what someone spends their money on. Majority of people aren't on benefits their whole life's and are only on it when they need support.


But he only has the money because of the psychosis which he is making worse with the drugs. He maybe wouldn't be able to get the money to buy the drugs should he stop.

Surely the money is to help make him better not worse.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

I'm sorry but it's not rubbish it's fact. I did say he shouldn't be buying drugs. I don't condone anyone spending them like that. It prob isn't helping his psychosis.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

astro2011 said:


> Yes his money! People think cause they pay tax it's their money. How do you know if he ever contributed to the system?


My eldest Son suffers from stress and anxiety. He is on medication for it. He gets up at 6.30 every morning, to walk his old, rescued Staffy girl, then he showers and gets dressed for work.

He works very hard and doesn't get home until 6.30 in the Evening. As with everyone else, he has tax deducted from HIS earnings at source. Of course it's his money .......... he earned it.

And his very hard earned pounds are funding someone who lounges round all day using drugs and smoking cigarettes.

I really cannot see how that can possibly be right or fair.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

And I appreciate everyone who contributes to help people in need. I'm just saying you can't tell someone how to spend the money...it's not possible. Is it right? Course it's not.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> Hayley, do you have any other forums you can talk about this on? I'm not saying you shouldn't post about it here but merely asking if you have other outlets perhaps where your issues will be more understood.
> 
> I will be honest, I find it hard to understand how you can control your self harm when you are baby sitting but then I'm no expert on MH. The subject as a whole interests me as I have m.e/cfs which brings anxieties of its own, but I can never control them so I can partake in social activities. If I'm having a really bad day then nothing helps and theres nothing I can do to control it.
> 
> ...


POSSIBLE TRIGGER!

As I said if I feel unsafe/urges to self harm I don't baby sit, if I am babysitting it is not for long as *touch wood* my mood has never changed so severely I have felt urges while I am babysitting...
The only time I came close was Nye after something happened.. But I just focused, wont go into detail but my self harm isn't so impulsive it is more planned as an outlet, same as someone having a cigarette Im guessing (never smoked) I hold it in, then self harm when possible.

I'm not on a MH forum as they are very triggering, I will stick to the MH thread on here from now on, I simply came and ranted and opened a whole can of worms.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Believe me I am all against my cousin spending his money on drugs but I also 100% understand an addiction.
I HATE the fact he uses but its him and a battle he has got to face.

He is given his benefits allowance its up to him what he spends it on, some people have pets, some have hobbies.. He sadly uses it for drugs.

And as for his psychosis, he started taking the drugs because he was experiencing psychosis, No drugs aren't helping, they are making it worse but he cannot see that.


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Lavenderb said:


> Hayley, do you have any other forums you can talk about this on? I'm not saying you shouldn't post about it here but merely asking if you have other outlets perhaps where your issues will be more understood.
> 
> I will be honest, I find it hard to understand how you can control your self harm when you are baby sitting but then I'm no expert on MH. The subject as a whole interests me as I have m.e/cfs which brings anxieties of its own, but I can never control them so I can partake in social activities. If I'm having a really bad day then nothing helps and theres nothing I can do to control it.
> 
> ...


I don't know how 5headh feels about it but mental health /self harm forums can be very heavy and not always especially useful, peaceful or helpful.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Sweety said:


> My eldest Son suffers from stress and anxiety. He is on medication for it. He gets up at 6.30 every morning, to walk his old, rescued Staffy girl, then he showers and gets dressed for work.
> 
> He works very hard and doesn't get home until 6.30 in the Evening. As with everyone else, he has tax deducted from HIS earnings at source. Of course it's his money .......... he earned it.
> 
> ...


Well isn't that great that your Son can work and can actually leave his house. You clearly do not have a clue about addiction or mental health issues, if you did you wouldn't be so judgemental.

These people who have addictions do not choose to be that way, they are ADDICTS. It's easy for you to say ''just stop their money'', ''make them get a job'' tell me how someone who is an addict is going to cope with no money or even a basic job? when they can barely function without drugs/alcohol or whatever it is they take. Are you seriously telling me someone would choose that? a life of taking drugs and psychosis?. These types of people do not receive the correct help from the NHS.

Do you know how long the waiting list is to see a therapist funded by the NHS is? In Manchester it's over a year long and then sometimes it still doesn't help these people who are suffering.

And no it may not be fair but that's life. People who moan about paying taxes p*ss me off no end! You seriously do not understand that the amount of tax you pay that goes to 'scroungers' is pittance, it's nothing. I read if you earn £20,000 a year something like 0.00003066 pence goes to these so called 'scrounger's out of your tax.

I think the way some of you have spoken to 5head5 is below the belt and uncalled for, including you Sweety, I think you were kind of rude and pretty judgemental tbf. She was only having a rant.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Megan345 said:


> I don't know how 5headh feels about it but mental health /self harm forums can be very heavy and not always especially useful, peaceful or helpful.


I wasn't sure hence I asked. I can't be the only person who often doesn't know what to reply on these topics without fear of upsetting someone and if noone replies then that is wrong too.

Natural curiosity gets taken the wrong way and then nothing gets talked about...I'm all for talking and listening and learning.
Throw statistics and studies and knowledge my way and I will soak up as much as I can. Throw a strop and stomp off in a huff...noone learns anything.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

I would have hated for Jake to join a SH support forum. I would have been scared of him finding new ways to a) hide it, and b) new methods!

SHers do it for the release. They don't want to hurt other people, they want to release some of the pain they have inside themselves.

They don't do it on the spur of the moment (usually), unless they are in a place where its safe for them to do it - which usually means being alone with no threat of anyone walking in on them.

Thats my experience of living with a SHer anyway, although I guess, like everything, it affects everyone differently.

Sorry, this post was a bit off topic


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Lavenderb said:


> I wasn't sure hence I asked. I can't be the only person who often doesn't know what to reply on these topics without fear of upsetting someone and if noone replies then that is wrong too.
> 
> Natural curiosity gets taken the wrong way and then nothing gets talked about...I'm all for talking and listening and learning.
> Throw statistics and studies and knowledge my way and I will soak up as much as I can. Throw a strop and stomp off in a huff...noone learns anything.


Of course no one understands everything and there's nothing wrong with curiosity. I couldn't give you facts and figures mind, but I used to being to the National Self Harm Network forum, back in 2005 or so. I left in the end as it seemed to have a very unbalanced membership - a lot of young people, as well as some older, but few of whom were interested in supporting each other. It could be a very unsettling and disturbing place, not the best for the kind of support you're looking for. (not you but *one *) I joined an offshoot of it eventually, run by one of the long time members, which had a much less dark and supportive environment.

I'm probably not explaining this very well, it's difficult; perhaps enough to say that a lot of people were more interested in themselves than others, and the less self involved members were stretched thinly.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

MCWillow said:


> I would have hated for Jake to join a SH support forum. I would have been scared of him finding new ways to a) hide it, and b) new methods!
> 
> SHers do it for the release. They don't want to hurt other people, they want to release some of the pain they have inside themselves.
> 
> ...


No hun, completely on topic.Mental health is a big part of the OP. And thankyou for explaining it in a way that doesn't come across as though I had asked the most ridiculous question in the world.


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Sorry to hijack your thread, hope you don't mind.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> No hun, completely on topic.Mental health is a big part of the OP. And thankyou for explaining it in a way that doesn't come across *as though I had asked the most ridiculous question in the world.*


Never!

I asked many times 'why do you do that, how can you do that, what do you get out of it?'

I still can't say I completely understand, but I understand more than did, and more than someone that has never been in close contact with it.

In the end all you can do is support them through it, be there for them and don't judge. I made sure Jake had a fully stocked medical box, so he could sort himself out afterwards, and be as safe as he could be. He also promised to tell me if he had gone too far and needed stitches - although I think his thoughts and mine on needing stitches probably differed a bit...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Royoyo said:


> Well isn't that great that your Son can work and can actually leave his house. You clearly do not have a clue about addiction or mental health issues, if you did you wouldn't be so judgemental.
> 
> These people who have addictions do not choose to be that way, they are ADDICTS. It's easy for you to say ''just stop their money'', ''make them get a job'' tell me how someone who is an addict is going to cope with no money or even a basic job? when they can barely function without drugs/alcohol or whatever it is they take. Are you seriously telling me someone would choose that? a life of taking drugs and psychosis?. These types of people do not receive the correct help from the NHS.
> 
> ...


How dare you?

It isn't "Great" that my Son can leave the house and go to work. He does so because he is a strong, brave man with a lot of backbone.

At no point did I say "Just stop their money". Don't put words in my mouth and then use to them for your own ends.

I do actually have a clue about Mental Health. I myself suffer from depression and am being treated for it and my Twin Sister has Bi-Polar disorder and I support her on a daily basis.

Rude? I wasn't rude. I spoke the truth and gave my opinion, but your kind of people aren't looking for opinions, you're looking for sympathy.

It's very unlike me to get upset, but a lot of what I've seen on this thread flies in the face of everything I believe and makes a mockery of the daily struggles my Son has and faces up to without the use of drugs bought with someone else's money.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh, and "These people don't choose to become addicts". Really?

There's only one way to can become addicted to any substance and that's by using it in the first place.

THAT is a choice.


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Sweety said:


> Oh, and "These people don't choose to become addicts". Really?
> 
> There's only one way to can become addicted to any substance and that's by using it in the first place.
> 
> THAT is a choice.


You must appreciate it isn't always so black and white, though?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I do appreciate that.

I really, really resent though some person telling me that my son is lucky he's been able to overcome his problems and work for a living.

It's taken a lot of resilience, a lot of courage and a lot of support from me for him to get to where he is now.

I will never tolerate anyone telling me that he's lucky. He is not. He is a very brave lad with a lot of self-respect and a need to make his own way in the World.

I'm very proud of him.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

I used to smoke and did it as a stress release. If you understood the stuff I seen you may see why. The majority of the people with my illness smoke and I've heard it's cause of stress. I do think some people just don't understand. Just cause some people manage and some people can't doesn't make them bad people. 

Oh well.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I smoke. I don't have any issue with smoking, that would be hypocritical don't you think?

However, I buy my cigarettes with my own money.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> I would have hated for Jake to join a SH support forum. I would have been scared of him finding new ways to a) hide it, and b) new methods!
> 
> SHers do it for the release. They don't want to hurt other people, they want to release some of the pain they have inside themselves.
> *
> ...


That's the point I was getting at !
The only time I have self harmed on impulse is when I have been VERY poorly in which case I would never have the baby anyway!

It wasn't off topic at all


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Well I hope you never need to go on benefits and stop that. I clearly can't get it through that people's benefits are their money too. A lot of people have paid into the system and are falling back on benefits when the need them for a short period of time. So is it not their money even though they've paid in?


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Sweety said:


> I smoke. I don't have any issue with smoking, that would be hypocritical don't you think?
> 
> However, I buy my cigarettes with my own money.


My cousin buys his drugs with his own money.. Its his own allowance given to him.. What he says as 'essential items' we may definitely not.. But he is spending his money how he wishes!

Its called an addiction, I no way can judge addictions.. I have an addiction, may not be to drugs or alcohol but I know all to well how hard it is to stop.

You mean to say if for some reason you ended up on JSA or ESA you would quite smoking, the day you happened to receive your allowance?

I think not some how!


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

astro2011 said:


> Well I hope you never need to go on benefits and stop that. I clearly can't get it through that people's benefits are their money too. A lot of people have paid into the system and are falling back on benefits when the need them for a short period of time. So is it not their money even though they've paid in?


*bangs head against brick wall*

I think its hopeless Astro! Lets go and sit in a cardboard box and have no hobbies or life... Because its not our money, we must spend it as others wish!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, you underestimate me dear.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Well we will agree to disagree.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

astro2011 said:


> Well we will agree to disagree.


Amen!

Way to de-rail a thread lol.

Anyway as fun as this thread is.. I have a bed to go to!

Night Astro!


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Sweety said:


> Oh, and "These people don't choose to become addicts". Really?
> 
> There's only one way to can become addicted to any substance and that's by using it in the first place.
> 
> THAT is a choice.





Sweety said:


> I do appreciate that.
> 
> I really, really resent though some person telling me that my son is lucky he's been able to overcome his problems and work for a living.
> 
> ...


I am glad your son has come through, I really am, and you are right to feel proud of him. But everybody's battle is different.

I'm not saying it is right, far from it, but drugs or drink, for some, are just their way of self medicating. Then before you know it, they are addicted - and for some, there is no way back.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Sweety said:


> How dare you?
> 
> It isn't "Great" that my Son can leave the house and go to work. He does so because he is a strong, brave man with a lot of backbone.
> 
> ...


How dare I what? I don't think what I said was offensive. I was telling you that you were rude to 5headh (sorry I keep calling you 5head5 lol) and the way you worded some things made it seem like you didn't have a clue about addiction or mental health, if you can't see that then that is not my problem.

My kind of people are looking for sympathy? what kind of people would that be?

I'm sorry your Son struggles with stress and anxiety but just because your son does not have an addiction or wasn't bought up on someone else's money it doesn't give you the right to look down your nose at people who are in that situation! and the way in which you worded your posts made it look as if that was what you were doing.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Sweety said:


> Oh, and "These people don't choose to become addicts". Really?
> 
> There's only one way to can become addicted to any substance and that's by using it in the first place.
> 
> THAT is a choice.


I just thought I would quote this to you aswell.



> To clarify for those who do not understand addiction, an addict, only makes one bad choice deliberately, and that was the first time they chose to do drugs. Once addicted there is no choice. The definition of addiction: a compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance. Notice there is no mention of choices. It does not define addiction as: when a user chooses drugs instead of all things. To have a choice is to have control. Addiction strips the user of the control. To have a choice, is to not be addicted. Addiction in itself eliminates options like "choices" and this is what family and friends must understand. Their addicted loved one made one bad choice, the addiction took over from that point and now the addict can no longer have control over the impulse, the physical craving.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> I just thought I would quote this to you aswell.
> 
> 
> 
> > *To clarify for those who do not understand addiction, an addict, only makes one bad choice deliberately, and that was the first time they chose to do drugs. Once addicted there is no choice. The definition of addiction: a compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance. Notice there is no mention of choices. It does not define addiction as: when a user chooses drugs instead of all things. To have a choice is to have control. Addiction strips the user of the control. To have a choice, is to not be addicted. Addiction in itself eliminates options like "choices" and this is what family and friends must understand. Their addicted loved one made one bad choice, the addiction took over from that point and now the addict can no longer have control over the impulse, the physical craving.*


To be fair, that is what she actually said. She didn't say if it was a good or a bad choice, she just said it was choice, which is exactly what you have just said.



Sweety said:


> Oh, and "These people don't choose to become addicts". Really?
> 
> *There's only one way to can become addicted to any substance and that's by using it in the first place.*
> 
> THAT is a choice.


You see?


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> To be fair, that is what she actually said. She didn't say if it was a good or a bad choice, she just said it was choice, which is exactly what you have just said.
> 
> You see?


She did say that but to me it seems as if she doesn't understand addiction, or not long term addiction anyway. I was just showing her that yes whilst you may have a choice to take a drug or not, once you do sometimes choices go out the window.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> She did say that but to me it seems as if she doesn't understand addiction, or not long term addiction anyway. I was just showing her that yes whilst you may have a choice to take a drug or not, once you do sometimes choices go out the window.


I get what you are saying, but I think you are reading her wrong - just MHO.

She's a smoker, so she knows all about addiction, and I imagine, long term addiction.

Smokers _choose_ to start smoking, then they get addicted, and I am sure many of them wish they never had that first cigarette - I know _I_ do.

I think her point is, yes people get addicted to things, and while, they _themselves_ can afford to found their addiction thats fine.

Its when people go out to work, pay taxes, and know that they are earning far less than someone on benefits, it starts to gall. Especially when they know they are working a full week, and couldnt afford to pay for drugs even if they wanted to - but they are working and paying money towards someone else that sits at home all day spending their 'free' money on drugs.

And you know what - I agree with her.

The capped benefit for a single person (not including CT benefit - that is on top) is £350 a week. Thats £1400 a month. Thats more than I get _before _my tax and NI is taken off, and I work 32 hours a week, in a very stressful job.

So yeah - I do kinda begrudge working for far less than I would get if I were on benefits, and I do begrudge the taxes I pay, on a less amount than I would get than if I were on benefits, going to someone that is just sitting there smoking and getting high.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I haven't read all of this thread but I will tomorrow.

However, I do understand your situation. Well, I don't from experience as I don't suffer from a mental illness. I do have anxiety but it doesn't particularly get in the way of my life.

Anyway...

I see your point OP. You are clearly unwell from what you are telling us and you are obviously off work and signed onto ESA for a good reason, not being able to keep up with working on a daily basis.

But I do understand your parents view too. They are obviously caring of you despite you don't feel that way because I am sure if they didn't they would tell you to bugger off. I know some will say parents wouldn't do that but if someone really didn't give a bugger they would say. They are clearly supporting you, you know?

I just think because your parents are at work all day they don't want to be coming home and spending the evenings cleaning when they just want to relax before going to bed.

I do get your point when you at least do half of the chores on the list but fail to manage the rest and it's not good enough for them. They should be more supportive in the way that you are truly trying and putting effort in. Have you tried sitting down and saying how you actually feel?

Parents can just be that way sometimes you know.

Can I ask what it is that actually makes you incapable of being able to complete day to day house chores? So how do you manage when your parents aren't in regarding such things as cooking?

I think there is a mental illness thread within the health section and the people are very supportive there. Perhaps pop over if you haven't yet. 

I wish you all the best. Feel free to rant and ramble to us all. We will be happy to hear it, just don't feel upset if a comment comes across quite forward. Chin up.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> I get what you are saying, but I think you are reading her wrong - just MHO.
> 
> She's a smoker, so she knows all about addiction, and I imagine, long term addiction.
> 
> ...


I think maybe I have come across wrong too as I do not agree with people taking drugs or using benefits to fund that lifestyle. What I was talking about was people who have addictions to hard drugs, ones that have an affect on peoples social, mental, and physical well being. I don't think you can really compare cigarettes to other drugs such as cocaine or heroin or even alcohol.

I know/have known people who have addictions to 'hard' drugs as I'm sure many other people do here. I do not like the fact that some people paint all addicts as the same picture - lazy good for nothing scroungers, who stay at home all day getting high. Most of the people I know who are drug addicts have basically 0 quality of life and that's because they are trapped and can't get the help they need. Some of these people have genuine problems that is why they turn to drugs or alcohol.

I know one guy who used to be a heroin addict, he was sexually abused as a child - that is why he turned to drugs. I know there are better ways of dealing with it but that's what happens to some people. Of course to fund his drug habit he stole and that obviously got him sent to prison, so now he can't get a job and all his Doctor has done for him is put him on methadone and valium, so like really where is his life going? nowhere probably as he's trapped and then people moan about drug addicts? Look in any town or city and there are 100's of people like the guy I know.

I understand why it annoys people about the whole benefits thing but really who are we to judge another person on their lifestyle? we don't know them and don't know what they've been through. I always think that a little more care and less bashing of people because of their (bad) choices goes a long way. After all we're all in this together really.

I'm apologise if I offended anyone, I just feel kind of strongly about this I guess.

This wasn't all directed at you btw MCWillow 

Sorry about the speech


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> I think maybe I have come across wrong too as I do not agree with people taking drugs or using benefits to fund that lifestyle. What I was talking about was people who have addictions to hard drugs, ones that have an affect on peoples social, mental, and physical well being. I don't think you can really compare cigarettes to other drugs such as cocaine or heroin or even alcohol.


You're right - the point is - that_ no-one_ gets addicted to _anything_, unless they _themselves_ make the CHOICE to take that first hit/drink/cigarette, or whatever. That is where the _choice _is.



> I know/have known people who have addictions to 'hard' drugs as I'm sure many other people do here. I do not like the fact that some people paint all addicts as the same picture - lazy good for nothing scroungers, who stay at home all day getting high. Most of the people I know who are drug addicts have basically 0 quality of life and that's because they are trapped and can't get the help they need. Some of these people have genuine problems that is why they turn to drugs or alcohol.


Agree again - but they still made the CHOICE, to take that first hit/drink or whatever.



> I know one guy who used to be a heroin addict, he was sexually abused as a child - that is why he turned to drugs. I know there are better ways of dealing with it but that's what happens to some people. Of course to fund his drug habit he stole and that obviously got him sent to prison, so now he can't get a job and all his Doctor has done for him is put him on methadone and valium, so like really where is his life going? nowhere probably as he's trapped and then people moan about drug addicts? Look in any town or city and there are 100's of people like the guy I know.


Yes, there are. And many of them have backstories. Many of those stories are sad beyond belief. But that person still made the CHOICE to take that first hit/drink.



> I understand why it annoys people about the whole benefits thing but really who are we to judge another person on their lifestyle? we don't know them and don't know what they've been through. I always think that a little more care and less bashing of people because of their (bad) choices goes a long way. After all we're all in this together really.


No-one will judge another person, unless, they think the other person could do more. Lots of people have been in the same situation, but they haven't turned to drugs or alcohol. They have made sure they rose above what people tried to beat them down to.



> I'm apologise if I offended anyone, I just feel kind of strongly about this I guess.
> 
> This wasn't all directed at you btw MCWillow
> 
> Sorry about the speech


I didn't take it personally, and I am not offended 

Its just - I know people that have been to hell and back, and they strove to make their lives better. I have also known people that didn't - and looked for ways to block the pain.

I am not saying which way is right, or better.

I am saying, don't expect other people to go to work day in and day out, earning less than you get on benefits, to fund the CHOICE you have made. (generic you).


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## Aeschylus (Sep 19, 2013)

I think the discourse about choice is a bit of a red herring. For example, most smokers of my acquaintance started smoking when they were too young to properly understand the long term consequences of their so-called choice. There are other factors that make the idea of choice a bit less black and white. So I think it's a bit pointless to insist that they take full responsibility for the effects of their 'choices'; supporting people to make changes is likely to be more effective.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> You're right - the point is - that_ no-one_ gets addicted to _anything_, unless they _themselves_ make the CHOICE to take that first hit/drink/cigarette, or whatever. That is where the _choice _is.
> 
> Agree again - but they still made the CHOICE, to take that first hit/drink or whatever.
> 
> ...


I do get what you're saying but I don't know if we're on the same page. I know it's a CHOICE to take a drug but what I'm trying to say is in my personal opinion, its not a choice to become addicted. Nobody makes a conscience effort or choice to become a drug addict. However, IT IS a choice to do the drugs and the actions that lead up to addiction.

In my eyes I believe addiction is a mental illness - or a symptom of a mental illness.

I can't get across what I'm trying to say! ahhhh lol.

ETA - Aeschylus that's what i'm trying to say


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Personally I can't imagine 'choosing' to do nothing or being a drug addict. Who would really want to live like that if options were available?

I agree that more should be done to support people to make positive changes to their lives, although I doubt there is enough of that support available.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Aeschylus said:


> I think the discourse about choice is a bit of a red herring.* For example, most smokers of my acquaintance started **smoking when they were too young to properly understand the long term consequences of their so-called choice.* There are other factors that make the idea of choice a bit less black and white. So I think it's a bit pointless to insist that they take full responsibility for the effects of their 'choices'; supporting people to make changes is likely to be more effective.


*When I was a kid EVERYBODY had a *** dangling from their lips..on the telly..on the movies...In fact I think it must have been compulsory in American films.Every glamorous actress seemed to be puffing away merrily throughout the movie.So what did we kids do?...We copied them.*


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Only on PF can a rant about being nagged by parents to do too much housework turn into a debate about benefits & drug addicition!

ETA: LOL at that smoking poster PB - these days if someone blew smoke in your face youd more likely think they are an arrogant tw*t, not follow them anywhere! - How times change!!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> You're right - the point is - that_ no-one_ gets addicted to _anything_, unless they _themselves_ make the CHOICE to take that first hit/drink/cigarette, or whatever. That is where the _choice _is.
> 
> Agree again - but they still made the CHOICE, to take that first hit/drink or whatever.
> 
> ...


.... _And be happy or fine about it_. :mellow:

I haven't read all the replies, but got as far as this and decided to add my 2pennoth.

Royoyo mentioned a guy who chose drugs because of sexual abuse. I was sexually abused too but_ I_ didn't go running to drugs, or alcohol, or cigarettes (although how I managed to avoid smoking when my mum, paternal grandparents, and, IIRC my maternal grandmother all smoked, I have no idea :001_tongue. At one VERY low point I found myself at a crossroads; Go left and wait for the school doors to open, or go right, and ask the "cool kids" what they're smoking and could I have some. I chose Left. It _is _still a choice and IMHO, choosing a habit-forming substance because of a bad childhood is just letting the abuser win. My abuser certainly didn't win over me; I have my own flat, a job, my car. _He's_ the one sitting there wasting away on drugs :dita: :w00t:

But that's beside the point.

I can't say I understand addiction. I can enjoy the odd drink, but I stop before I get drunk (or even tipsy), and in all honesty, I can't remember the last time I had a drink; I think I can count on one hand the alcoholic drinks I've had since getting the car - nearly 10 months ago.

As for self harming; I have NEVER self-harmed, but, thanks to the amount of scars on my arms caused by eczema, I have met with the kind of disapproval I imagine many self harmers must face; by doctors, of all people :nonod: My mum also faced the same disapproval by her own doctor when she attended an appointment for an unrelated problem ... Her scars were caused by her young kittens at the time :bored:

If _that's_ the kind of disapproval we've faced and we're NOT self harming, it's no wonder that those who do self harm (including the OP), do it in private. But I am curious as to how you can "control" the urge to self harm. Genuinely curious.

OP: Living on your own isn't easy; In fact, it's DAMNED hard. You can do all your research and get everything down on paper, but the reality can still be like a bucket of cold water thrown over you when you were sleeping. Yes, it's your house, your rules. No, there's no one there with a To Do list; but it's amazing how quickly that To Do list gets into your head, because if you don't keep up with it (and I must admit, I'm THE worst for doing housework at times ) then it simply piles up. So if you're struggling now, just imagine how you're going to cope when the housework is entirely down to you. No good moaning about the chores you have to do then, hun, because those of us who live alone are in the same boat and I'm afraid, it's a case of put up or shut up.

Now, I'm not saying this to put you off - living on your own, having your own place might just be the making of you, I know my family think my flat was the making of me, and maybe it was. I got my job to keep the roof over mine and the dogs' heads, I passed my test so I could increase my hours ... so that I can keep the roof over mine and the dogs' heads, but it's not exactly a walk in the park, either.

Pheew! So many topics covered in one thread. :blink:


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

LinznMilly said:


> .... _And be happy or fine about it_. :mellow:
> 
> I haven't read all the replies, but got as far as this and decided to add my 2pennoth.
> 
> ...


I don't mind answering questions about self harm; I would rather people ask and learn then stare and judge, so thanks for asking *thumbs up*

NEXT PARAGRAPH POSSIBLE TRIGGER TALK OF SELF-HARM!

With me (cant say it covers everyone) I self harm to bleed not to feel pain (in fact I am a massive wimp), I would rather self harm in privacy (in fact never done it in front of anyway!) and somewhere i'm not going to be found, I don't self harm for attention therefore why would people need to see me do it, in fact I am ashamed of it.
My urges aren't impulsive as I know some self harmers are (they used to be), the way I can best describe it is to say a blocked exhaust.. If I don't self harm and try my hardest to control the urges, it just builds up, it can be done but it will blow eventually... Hence why I always go back to it...
But it means I can go a few days at a time without self harming (I had to learn to control these urges I used to self harm numerous times a day) And usually if I hold it in the resulting self harm is worse.. but I CAN control the urges to a degree.

I know its not going to be a walk in the park, infact its probably going to be blooming hard work, but I also think if I don't do it now I'll never do it.. Or Ill end up being chucked out because we have had an argument and then I'll be stuck!
I'm going to do a lot of reaserch later when the baby has gone home, into prices and stuff.. For now Im being harassed to play with cars!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I began smoking when I was a teenager, (long time ago), because every single one of my friends smoked. It was portrayed as glamorous, but in fairness, the true dangers of smoking just weren't known, or weren't made public.

I think today's teenagers are much better informed and cannot help but be aware of the true dangers of an addiction to cigarettes.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

5headh said:


> Its all gone really quickly!! I filled in my housing forms on the 15th, got my appointment to take my ID and complete a medical form yesterday and can already log onto the website to view the available properties!
> 
> I cannot yet bid as they haven't decided what 'band' to put me in... But how exciting!
> 
> Things haven't been to bad lately, my parents haven't been home much and when they have I haven't.


Delighted to read that things are moving already for you. That must help you to feel more positive. I hope you get a place soon so YOU can take charge of your life. You already know it won't be easy - although some folks here seem to think otherwise...  - but knowing that will make it easier.

Getting away from the constant verbal bashings from your folks will be a blessing on its own and I am sure you will find the solitude of your own pad the perfect thing to help bring you peace and soothe your head.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

5headh said:


> I don't mind answering questions about self harm; I would rather people ask and learn then stare and judge, so thanks for asking *thumbs up*
> 
> NEXT PARAGRAPH POSSIBLE TRIGGER TALK OF SELF-HARM!
> 
> ...


Thank you for that explanation. Not sure I completely understand, but I understand more than I did 

I hope I didn't come across as patronizing in my earlier posts.

Good luck with your search.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Sweety said:


> Oh, and "These people don't choose to become addicts". Really?
> 
> There's only one way to can become addicted to any substance and that's by using it in the first place.
> 
> THAT is a choice.


Sorry but that's a load of bloody rubbish. You clearly have no understanding in addictions to drugs.

I smoke cigarettes. Yes, it is my own fault I am addicted because I was the one who took the **** from my friends all those years ago.

However, some people are forced into taking drugs and they don't get to say no.

I get your point but it doesn't apply to everyone with addiction.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> I would have hated for Jake to join a SH support forum. I would have been scared of him finding new ways to a) hide it, and b) new methods!
> 
> SHers do it for the release. They don't want to hurt other people, they want to release some of the pain they have inside themselves.
> 
> ...


YES!!

I agree with what you are saying, well, from my own experience. When I was depressed I self harmed and I did it because it was like a release of pain and because I was angry too and so I blamed myself. It was somewhat of a hate thing and because I was so hurt and in pain it was a way of reducing it for the present time.

I also sometimes think self harmers do it because it is a cry for help, not attention seeking like some people like to think. I think it's when nobody answers that cry it gets worse to the point...

Well, perhaps in some cases. But then self harming could be different for other people?

But I was told if someone would really want to kill themselves they would do it. But I don't know.

My mum has manic depression and comes in and out of it all the time. The last time she hurt herself was before Christmas (Had to take time off college to be there for her) and she overdosed on anti-depressants. She has self harmed quite a few times but that was the worse one.

First it started off with cutting, then taking pills like Paracetamol, then she stabbed herself and now it was another overdose but on anti-depressants. The last was the worse.

I've noticed the more she keeps doing it, the worse the self harming is becoming and it's scaring me now to the point she won't be around one day.

She was seeing a crisis team because they naturally get called out when someone self harms and is sent to A&E. Then she refused to see them and wouldn't answer the house phone when she returned home from hospital so they said they would have to go around with the police if she didn't see them.

I had to then ring someone from the crisis team and they finally went round. My mum let them in and spoke to them.

However, despite the fact my mum is smiling and says she is feeling great again I do not believe it for one second. She is no longer on anti-depressants, her doctor has been wanting her to see him (She won't) and she didn't want to stay in contact with Stonebow so was given some cards from then. She hasn't bothered speaking to anyone.

What happened?

Last night took a bad turn once again so I had to be on the phone to the crisis team who couldn't do anything until she was once again referred by her GP to them or through A&E.

I'm just sharing this so some people could understand self harming and how it may be different to other people and the reason why they do it. 

It's a scary thing and is heartbreaking to try and help someone who wants the help deep down inside but won't take it. And I have never felt my mum is a danger to me or my younger sister. I don't think people who self harm would want to hurt someone else. Don't think you said that MC, just sort of replying to a few people through your quote. 

So, yeah, I think people can self harm for a number of reasons and there may be a pattern, there may not.


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Blackcats said:


> Sorry but that's a load of bloody rubbish. You clearly have no understanding in addictions to drugs.
> 
> I smoke cigarettes. Yes, it is my own fault I am addicted because I was the one who took the **** from my friends all those years ago.
> 
> ...


I can categorically say I NEVER touched a drop of alcohol until I turned 23; never interested me or appealed to me; I'm now 29 and have been told if I have another drink I will be dead.

I have relapsed so many times; not because I EVER mentally crave a drink; I get bored and lonely and cannot pass the nights and then I drink; am addicted PHYSICALLY far quicker than most people (example - four days heavy drinking will send me into an immediate detox situation where I need the detox drugs to come off it).

I have no idea why that is (the bodily addiction; though I am on a cocktail of, at the minute, 17 pills a day to combat my malnutrition, plus my normal meds (I have had 5 nervous breakdowns, the first one at five; according to kingscross college due to a genetic mutation that made me susceptible to mental illness ).

If I had never had that first drink I wouldn't have; being told someones son has 'a backbone' irks me incredibly because I have more backbone and more awareness of who I am than most.

I am high on the autistic spectrum and this time I admitted myself to hospital because I was trying to home detox and I genuinely realised one night that if I had one more drink I would die.

I've had enough of this thread.

Sweety; yes, your son IS lucky; he's lucky his illnesses haven't affected him to the point some peoples do, and I understand you are proud; to be honest I'm glad for him too.

I'm not proud though; I nearly lost my family and very best friends, plus my life through this; for once I AM proud of myself and have accepted I cannot do this alone.

I'll show you backbone like you've never known; I reiterate - I understand your pride, but some people are NOT as _'lucky'_ as to be able to get out of situations so easily.

I'm glad for you and your family, however I am more concerned with those who have lived and learned open mindedness, forgiveness and empathy.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I used to SH a lot when younger. Never did it in front of anyone, and never went to A and E. sorted it out at home with steristrips. 

Some people will openly wear short sleves when they've SH'd. I could never do that. Even now I don't like showing my scars.

SH for me was about releasing the pain I felt I couldn't express/was too scared to talk about.

Now in my 40's I SH less, cos as you grow older you learn new coping strategies/ways of coping.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I can easily admit I used to be the sort of person who would say 'I have no sympathy for drug addicts. They choose to do them serves them right'

I think it's because I was young and didn't really understand the term addiction and why people became addicted to substances.

I still don't understand now really but I don't judge anymore. Because who am I to judge someone in taking drugs? We don't know why.

I know some people can say I had a hard time with this....and I didn't turn to alcohol, ****, drugs, but surely those people found a way to help them cope, be it for example knitting, drawing, self harming, etc. I'm not saying it's the same but we turn to different things to help us cope. I drank quite a lot back last summer, straight in the morning all the way till late in the night, on top of an eating disorder. Didn't do me well at all. 

It is not a sign of weakness at all IMO. I was in pain at the time. I smoke now because it helps with my anxiety and stress.

I think to be honest people are so judgmental on the use of drugs because society tells us it's a vile habit. Yes, I know some people hate drugs because they have perhaps lost people to drug abuse, or cancer from smoking, etc. I understand that completely, I do but I do think society plays a big part in it. Like people's sex life. You sleep with a lot of people you are deemed a s***. Why? Because society says it is dirty and disgusting to be with so many people. Because the chances of STI and unwanted pregnancies. But regardless of that and even if said person is being safe, we still hate it. 

It is just the same with cigarettes. I am sure if cigarettes were a new thing to come out, they would also probably be banned and be a class A drug.

I don't know what I am saying really but until I truly know someone with an addiction to something like alcohol, drugs I can't really judge.

I know I smoke and smoking is probably just as dangerous as excessive drinking (I don't know) but I also see an addiction to drink and drugs harder to get out of as an addiction. I may be wrong.

Hope what I am saying is making any sense at all.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

cloversmum said:


> I used to SH a lot when younger. Never did it in front of anyone, and never went to A and E. sorted it out at home with steristrips.
> 
> Some people will openly wear short sleves when they've SH'd. I could never do that. Even now I don't like showing my scars.
> 
> ...


That's what I am realising, I am self harming less, or at least controlling it better.

I am one of those that wears short sleeves, not because I want people to see it, but because I am not ashamed of it.. its part of me and plus I melt in long sleeves in winter let alone summer!


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

5headh said:


> That's what I am realising, I am self harming less, or at least controlling it better.


Your illness will get better as you get older, I know it's bloody awful now. But you learn what your trigger points are and also what helps.

We have different illness's but I know for me my trigger points are lack of sleep and stress. So I try and manage both. What helps me is watching a movie, can switch off.

Hold on Hayley, it's awful when people don't understand. I very rarely tell people in real life as I find their ignorance and judgements too hard to handle


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

cloversmum said:


> I used to SH a lot when younger. Never did it in front of anyone, and never went to A and E. sorted it out at home with steristrips.
> 
> Some people will openly wear short sleves when they've SH'd. I could never do that. Even now I don't like showing my scars.
> 
> ...


Well you should.

They're NOTHING to be ashamed of; the only time I used to do that was when they were new scars and I didn't want it to upset children; adults can rationalise as they wish.



Blackcats said:


> I can easily admit I used to be the sort of person who would say 'I have no sympathy for drug addicts. They choose to do them serves them right'
> 
> I think it's because I was young and didn't really understand the term addiction and why people became addicted to substances.
> 
> ...


No, it's just different is all.

If I could rep you again then I would; however I will send you a friend request and I'm sure Hales will too (just call her Shed; it's easier).

xx



cloversmum said:


> Your illness will get better as you get older, I know it's bloody awful now. But you learn what your trigger points are and also what helps.
> 
> We have different illness's but I know for me my trigger points are lack of sleep and stress. So I try and manage both. What helps me is watching a movie, can switch off.
> 
> *Hold on Hayley, it's awful when people don't understand. I very rarely tell people in real life as I find their ignorance and judgements too hard to handle*


Do it more; I say again; you have nothing to be ashamed of and as I said in your other threads - we don't speak much but I have uttermost respect for you and your strength.

She opened up and now she has me. (God help her soul  )


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

:nonod:


Flamingoes said:


> I can categorically say I NEVER touched a drop of alcohol until I turned 23; never interested me or appealed to me; I'm now 29 and have been told if I have another drink I will be dead.
> 
> I have relapsed so many times; not because I EVER mentally crave a drink; I get bored and lonely and cannot pass the nights and then I drink; am addicted PHYSICALLY far quicker than most people (example - four days heavy drinking will send me into an immediate detox situation where I need the detox drugs to come off it).
> 
> ...


I appreciate your offer to "Show me backbone like I've never known".

Three years ago, I lost my Husband, suddenly and in the most horrifying circumstances imaginable. We had been married thirty years and he was the love of my life.

I had no choice but to fight my way out of the black pit I found myself in and, two years after his death, I was diagnosed with cancer. I have spent the last year having surgery, chemotherapy and radiotherapy.

Please don't try and tell me I don't understand the harsh realities of life. I do, only too well.

Disagree with my opinions by all means, but your suggestion that I don't know how terrible life can be is insulting.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Flamingoes said:


> Do it more; I say again; you have nothing to be ashamed of and as I said in your other threads - we don't speak much but I have uttermost respect for you and your strength.


I'm not ashamed,but as I've got older I've become more of a loner. Much prefer the company of my dogs over people


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

cloversmum said:


> I used to SH a lot when younger. Never did it in front of anyone, and never went to A and E. sorted it out at home with steristrips.
> 
> *Some people will openly wear short sleves when they've SH'd. I could never do that. Even now I don't like showing my scars.*
> 
> ...


"Liked" because I've been there with my eczema scars so I can relate to this. Yes, it's different, my condition being physical rather than mental suffering, but the effects is the same. I used to look down at my arms and be completely ashamed of them. As I have grown older I've come to accept myself more and the shame has gone so I do wear short sleeves in appropriate weather, but I still hesitate when it comes to skirts.

Blackcats: There's only one person I judge and it's _not _for the fact he takes drugs.  I am NOT judging the person Royoyo was referring to in her post. I've openly said I can't understand why people choose drugs or any other habit-forming substance ... at least not to the point of addiction. I coped by reading and writing; I am, or at least I was very introverted and insular. It isn't even in the next postcode as taking drugs/other habit inducing substances. Yes, they're both coping mechanisms, but I don't NEED to read or write. I do them because I enjoy doing them. They are _hobbies _- not habits.

I'm done with this thread now.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Liz, I wasn't necessarily singling you out in regards to the judging on drugs, just in general.xx


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Sweety said:


> :nonod:
> 
> I appreciate your offer to "Show me backbone like I've never known".
> 
> ...


I wont, and if we're getting into one card up and personal arguments then you haven't been here long enough to know me.

I lost my mother, my soul mate, at 21, to cancer and watched her waste away and die in front of my eyes; the year following I lost the other 17 members of my family due to cancer or bad luck.

I will NOT reply to you anymore and you can bait me all you want. Grief and bad luck and the harsh realities of life are not about one up-man-ship and I will not and never have gotten in to personal arguments.

I wont put you on ignore; I'm quite capable of ignoring people whilst respecting their opinions.

I don't ever think one persons problems can cross over with anothers unless there is empathy involved.

Clearly here there isn't.

I genuinely wish you, your son and family well xx


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sweety said:


> :nonod:
> 
> I appreciate your offer to "Show me backbone like I've never known".
> 
> ...


Quite right, just because it isn't put on here doesn't mean others haven't suffered or are not suffering right now.


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Quite right, just because it isn't put on here doesn't mean others haven't suffered or are not suffering right now.


Indeed; that's why I am now going to bed.

Goodnight xx

ETA - to 'you' and 'yours' and anyone who is struggling or has beaten or is battling or feels they have have none or little backbone or those who feel strong at the minute and tomorrow will sink and every one of you who actually understands any of this truly.

To the parents, to the 'friends' to the loved ones; you have your own battles; the person suffering problems has enough - fight your own and don't intertwine them; get your own support and other support as and when you wish; don't encroach on each others territory and can we please start a different thread if we wish to discuss this further;

I haven't spoken to Hales about this and she probably wouldn't but it's really doing my head in now that her random rant thread is the focus; please start another on a more general sense and let this one die as surely anyone can see it has gone way off topic and a less of a person would have asked it to be closed by now.

Sorry Hales; I'm done with this, I'm done with people rolling it around you; I'd rather it go to a general or health topic so I'm asking for it to be closed; that's me done.

You will do FINE on your own; you will have me and Astro as true friends and we know you; you will do fine.

This is way off topic; I know how your rant was meant and that really is my final say on the matter.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Indeed; that's why I am now going to bed.
> 
> Goodnight xx
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I really don't get it.

It's a forum for sharing. Everyone can have an opinion or share their own problems too (or not) and you have mentioned yours, in fact you mentioned yours first and now suggesting others are 'encroaching' on others support when they say they have had their own struggles, when told they knew nothing of suffering!

Sweety has said she has had a fair share too and I know of numerous people on here suffering through many things, but on here appear as well as they come and don't mention or share it.

Surely anyone can say their own problems too?


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Double posted somehow??


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Blackcats said:


> Sorry but that's a load of bloody rubbish. You clearly have no understanding in addictions to drugs.
> 
> I smoke cigarettes. Yes, it is my own fault I am addicted because I was the one who took the **** from my friends all those years ago.
> 
> ...


I take your point but, in fairness, I would see this post of yours as argumentative.

I don't understand either.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Edited because didn't read Sweets comment properly.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Sweety said:


> I take your point but, in fairness, I would see this post of yours as argumentative.
> 
> I don't understand either.


How argumentative??

I was posting a reply to what you said, correcting you that you were wrong. I don't see that trying to spark an argument.

PLease can you elaborate?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Can we keep this thread going without the need for the personal arguments please. I realise there are some very emotive topics under discussion but please don't resort to this argumentative debate or the thread will be closed.


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Well you should.
> 
> They're NOTHING to be ashamed of; the only time I used to do that was when they were new scars and I didn't want it to upset children; adults can rationalise as they wish.
> 
> ...


LOL! God help YOUR soul!


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