# Help needed for traffic phobia



## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post. I wonder if anyone has any ideas that could help us.

We have a Golden Retriever X Golden German Shepherd who is 4 1/2 years old. She came to us at 10 months old, from the RSPCA, signed over from her previous family. We now understand that she had been hit by a car on a local dual carriageway on a wet road and was lucky to get away with a few scratches on her back legs. 

When first taking her out she flung herself about violently whenever a fast moving car came past. After much patience and perseverance we managed to calm her sufficiently to walk her to our local park, 10 minutes away, with a small portion along a road with buses and lorries (30 mph). As soon as she reaches a side road she charged off down it away from the road. She has pulled me over and torn ligaments in my shoulder. This behaviour occurs anywhere she can hear traffic moving fast, or thinks she can and is worse when she knows the area, as she anticipates going near the traffic.

Eventually we have managed to get her to walk along the road, cross over after sitting next to it and even go on buses but I am concerned at the levels of mental stress this causes her. She is quite happy to go in our motorhome and has travelled some long distances in it, although she frequently dribbles. 

We have tried keeping her away from traffic, exposing her to all levels of traffic and walking her along quiet roads. The latter has been the most successful but it is not always practical as I live on a busy road. After much perseverance she will now sit and even lie down outside the local supermarket with the cars moving slowly around the car park.

Many people I have encountered have told me she will get over this fear but after almost 3 1/2 years I can see no sign of this happening. I wonder if anyone has had similar problems and if there is a way of helping her or calming her. I would be grateful for any advice you can give. Thanks


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't know if she will ever get over it completely, but there are some things you could try? How is she with things on the tv, like motor racing? Does she have the same reaction? If so, this could be useful. You can get CDs with traffic noises as well, put them on very quietly at first and keep giving her high value treats, like chicken or cheese or liver cake. Once the sound is off, the treats stop. See how she is and if she remains calm after a while, turn the sound up very slightly and again use the treats. In her mind then, the noise goes away, the treats stop. The noise is there, the treats are there. If this is successful, or if she is not interested, take the idea outside. When you see a car coming, make her sit and watch you and give her treats, perhaps hold some in your hand for her to lick, until the car has gone. Then the treats stop. So she is associating positive things when she sees a car.

We had a horse once who before we had her, was apparently trapped in an overturned trailer for two hours until the fire brigade could get her out. The people who sold her to us failed to mention this and we only had hired trailers to get about. She was no way on earth setting foot inside a trailer. So, we towed the trailer into her paddock, left it open with lots of hay inside and a few pony nuts, and just left her to it. It took her about a week to decide that the trailer was not so bad after all.

It is the same sort of thing - positive associations.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Honey Bee said:


> When first taking her out she flung herself about violently whenever a fast moving car came past. After much patience and perseverance we managed to calm her sufficiently to walk her to our local park, 10 minutes away, with a small portion along a road with buses and lorries (30 mph). As soon as she reaches a side road she charged off down it away from the road. She has pulled me over and torn ligaments in my shoulder. This behaviour occurs anywhere she can hear traffic moving fast, or thinks she can and is worse when she knows the area, as she anticipates going near the traffic.
> 
> Eventually we have managed to get her to walk along the road, cross over after sitting next to it and even go on buses but I am concerned at the levels of mental stress this causes her. She is quite happy to go in our motorhome and has travelled some long distances in it, although she frequently dribbles


I had a fear of traffic phase in my young dog, and then similar reactivity to passing cars sending his litter mate into a frenzied state when she stayed.

What I did was use a well fitted anti-pull harness with double ended training lead, front & top-back clip, with harness featuring additional bracing & security via a clip to standard collar, which kept everything stable.

To actually desensitive to the traffic, I found a spot where the traffic was visible, but near enough to attract attention, and then used an "Ignore!" command which I taught previously to stop him fixating on joggers & cyclists with idea to chase them. The dog expected to look, then turn for a treat given behind shoulder, allowing me to gain attention. With practice the passing traffic gets associated with getting a treat, and you can move closer. "Ignore!" was quite wasy to teach, just point at something, then waft treat and give it, to turned head just behind shoulder and say the word as soon as the dog begins turning the head for a treat.

With an older dog, you might find a quick game, and praise is needed not just food. If the dog isn't taking food it probably means it's too stressed, and you need greater distance though.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi, 
Thanks both of you for your suggestions. Although we have tried treats in the past she was just too stressed out to take them but now she is calmer I will try this again. She has a particular fondness for cheese and marrow bone biscuits. She also picks up commands easily so this is a very good idea. I do not expect to cure her but just to make her feel more comfortable and less reactive. 

In answer to responding to traffic noises on TV, she has never taken notice of GP racing, motorbikes or even Top Gear! She can hear the traffic on the road outside and this doesn't really worry her either, probably because she feels safe inside. It just seems to freak her out if she is physically near to it. She is not afraid of other loud noises like fireworks, gun shots and aircraft and has even been on a steam train. She thoroughly enjoyed it, spending most of the time on it looking out the window. She is usually a calm dog so there is hope.

I will try your suggestions and let you know how we progress. Thanks again for your help.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

RobD-BCactive said:


> I had a fear of traffic phase in my young dog, and then similar reactivity to passing cars sending his litter mate into a frenzied state when she stayed.
> 
> What I did was use a well fitted anti-pull harness with double ended training lead, front & top-back clip, with harness featuring additional bracing & security via a clip to standard collar, which kept everything stable.
> 
> ...


If it helps at all I have a friend with a dog reactive issue who is using an adaptation of the above technique with enormous success - just remember to increase closeness/exposure real slowly bearing in mind the length of time your dog has had this fear. It has taken my friend weeks, but it is working, and her dog is 3 and half now. She now see's (acknowledges) another dog and immediately looks for the squeezy cheese tube to lick, and this tube btw has lasted weeks, and if she's reading this - go girl :001_smile:


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Honey Bee said:


> Hi,
> Thanks both of you for your suggestions. *Although we have tried treats in the past she was just too stressed out to take them *but now she is calmer I will try this again. She has a particular fondness for cheese and marrow bone biscuits. She also picks up commands easily so this is a very good idea. I do not expect to cure her but just to make her feel more comfortable and less reactive.
> 
> In answer to responding to traffic noises on TV, she has never taken notice of GP racing, motorbikes or even Top Gear! She can hear the traffic on the road outside and this doesn't really worry her either, probably because she feels safe inside. It just seems to freak her out if she is physically near to it. She is not afraid of other loud noises like fireworks, gun shots and aircraft and has even been on a steam train. She thoroughly enjoyed it, spending most of the time on it looking out the window. She is usually a calm dog so there is hope.
> ...


Timing is everything. You have to distract her with the cheese before she gets to that level. So when you see a car in the distance, that is the point at which you need to get her attention and start distracting her with the cheese. Cheese in a tube, by the way, as suggested is a very good thing. Once the distracting technique has begun, keep at it until the car has gone past. Don't worry if you don't know how fast it is going to go, it is all helping. If you can get her into a side road near the main road, so much the better. If not, like you are living on the main road, try to wait until it is fairly clear before you take her outside.

Now how did I know that a retriever would love cheese? My old retriever would do anything for cheese and when he was old and had to have tablets, I had to embed them in a piece of cheese! One of my newfies hates cheese, the other loves it.

To be honest, if I had been hit by a car I would be scared of them too. Let us know how you get on.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Cheers, 
Yes tubey cheese sounds good to me. Will definitely take it easy with her as I do understand why she's so upset. I have a side road that I can get to without going near the main road so I will begin there. Off to the supermarket tomorrow morning to get my cheese!


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## lucysnewmum (Feb 25, 2010)

in a severe case of stress like this i would also recommend getting her a Dap collar. this inoffensive collar is worn at the same time as her normal collar but it gives off doggie pheromones which will have a calming effect on her. 

i would suggest that she only wears this collar when out on walks just to give you a little help with the training by keeping her in a calm frame of mind from the moment you leave the house. 

maybe after a month or so of successful training outings amongst the traffic you could try her without it,,,but take it with you just to calm her down if she does get very stressed.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi, A Dap collar is interesting. I had not heard of this before so I will look into getting one. It sounds a lot better than giving her something lorally to calm her. We have avoided doing this as I have been unsure of the side affects of some of these products. 
Thanks for your help.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Honey Bee said:


> Hi, A Dap collar is interesting. I had not heard of this before so I will look into getting one. It sounds a lot better than giving her something lorally to calm her. We have avoided doing this as I have been unsure of the side affects of some of these products.
> Thanks for your help.


No side effects with DAP. The collar releases natural pheromones and has worked for many anxious dogs.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Welcome to the forum 

There are some worrying issues here the first one being her age - she is behaviourally mature and the closer they are to this stage the more difficult it is to modify fear related behaviours.

If this behaviour has been going on at this intensity for the almost 4 yers that you have her I would suggest that any side effects from the correct use of oral calmatives or medication pale in comparison to the stress that her body undergoes when exposed to a trigger at level she is obviously unable for.



> After much patience and perseverance we managed to calm her sufficiently to walk her to our local park, 10 minutes away, with a small portion along a road with buses and lorries (30 mph). As soon as she reaches a side road she charged off down it away from the road.


This is also worrying. Her response to the traffic, even if exposure is only for a short time, has been suppressed rather than modified and she attempts to flee as soon as she can.

I am also greatly concerned for you - you say that you have already been injured and this is, presumably, a large dog with the potential to injure you again.
There is obviously a great risk to her also - if she is yanking you about enough to cause you damage it is likely that she is causing herself damage as well.

Has she ever had a medical check to include bloods?

Can she brought for walkies in the car? Does she travel well in the car at all?

The first thing to be sure of is that you have control. Wearing a couple of control devices is probably necessary with this dog such as a martingale collar and front leading harness.
Use a double ended leash and have one end attached to the front of the harness and collar ring combined and the other end to the withers attachment ring of the harness.

The next thing is to avoid putting her in this situation. Devise a way of exercising that does not involve exposure to the trigger at this time. This will not be a permanent state just that when working with fears never expose the dog to the trigger at a level that the dog can't handle. This is detrimental to learning and dangerous to you and the dog.

Work on lots of calming and focus behaviours at home and in other situations that she is able to focus on you. More here: Crazy Canines | Pet Central's Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

At this point I think it is time that you work with a professional suitably qualified to work with fears. Ask your vet for an APBC referral or for a COAPE behaviourist referral.

Establishing a safe working distance and working through the stages is tough and its good to have some support on the ground.They will also help you to identify canine stress and when things are too much for her.

Best of luck 

ETA: re the use of DAP or other calmatives its important to use these at times when the dog is calm not only when in the midst of triggers or likely to be exposed - otherwise the calmative may become a conditioned stimulus telling her to expect a trigger and therefore upping the stress.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi, 
Just thought I'd give you all a brief update. Honey is doing well learning the ignore command and I am managing to get her attention. The only problem so far is she doesn't like squeezy cheese! She turned her nose up at it. Instead have cut up proper cheese into small pieces, which she does like. I'm spending around 10 minutes, a couple of times a day, sitting within sight of the road and distracting her. Have also ordered a Dap collar. Thanks again for all your help.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi again, 
Sorry I'm not use to the way threads work yet so I have only just read the post by Tripod. Thanks for your post. 

To answer your questions, I have considered using Dorwests Scullcap and Valerian calming tablets but have been put off because one of the ingredients listed is mistletoe, which I understand is not good for dogs. It is difficult to decide whether to use something like this if I am unsure of its long term effect. I've used it in the past on another dog and he subsequently had many health issues, but I don't know if the tablets were involved in these. 

A lot of the problem is that she frequently reacts to perceived danger rather than actually reacting to the cars. Trying to find somewhere safe near home to get her use to traffic is difficult, mainly because of the busy road. We need to walk along part of this, or cross it, to get access to the areas I generally walk her in, like the park or quieter roads. I don't have access to a car, only a motorhome, which is difficult to park due to height barriers on car parks and other restrictions. She is getting much better about travelling in this and she will actively want to get into it. We have learnt not to feed her anything before she goes in it. I have a friend locally who has offered parking but he lives on a busy road too so this is not a solution at all. I am obviously concerned that if she doesn't receive enough exercise this will heighten the problem. 

She currently wears a Canny collar when we are out with a six foot training double ended training lead. I have occasionally used a harness but there are some issues regarding this from her previous owners. We are not sure of the details but she frequently refuses to walk forward at all when wearing one. I will need to look into the type of harness you've suggested, as I'm not familiar with it.

I am sure that her behaviour is nothing to do with her health, as she is placid at home and calm in all other situations except the traffic one but I will discuss this and blood tests with my vet. I will check out the other suggestions as well and have a look at the Crazy canines blog. 

Thanks again for your suggestions


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Honey Bee said:


> She currently wears a Canny collar when we are out with a six foot training double ended training lead. I have occasionally used a harness but there are some issues regarding this from her previous owners. We are not sure of the details but she frequently refuses to walk forward at all when wearing one. I will need to look into the type of harness you've suggested, as I'm not familiar with it.
> 
> I am sure that her behaviour is nothing to do with her health, as she is placid at home and calm in all other situations except the traffic one but I will discuss this and blood tests with my vet. I will check out the other suggestions as well and have a look at the Crazy canines blog


It is great that you made some progress, and the friend of the Irish Setter Gal to, but I would take tripod's safety points seriously and defer to her recommendations if feasible in your situation. As I pointed out I was working with young dogs and had access to safe training situations, with the harness giving us adequate safety. Furthermore their fear & reactivitity were not due to the trauma of an RTA.

I can understand your caution about "remedies", I was put off one Herbal product labelled as Ginger, because it did not list properly it's ingredients, unlike a regulated medicine or food.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi. I thought it was about time I give an update on Honey's progress as it's been a very interesting week. 

Honey seemed to be getting better when kept at a distance from the traffic and given rewards (cheese cubes and small marrow bone biscuits) for ignoring it and responding to the ignore command but after a couple of days she suddenly got much worse again. I could see no apparent reason for this, except lack of off lead exercise, so I backed off again and resumed training further away. She eventually calmed down again. 

Then I was reading through some threads on the forum and found the following by Ceearott as follows: - 
"One of my bitches pulled like a steam train for a long time, not responding to various training methods. I eventually took her out for a mile long walk and every time she pulled I stood still, no eye contact, no speaking, no tugging on lead. It is very difficult to restrain yourself from not giving any contact and stopping yourself from getting annoyed lol, but it worked and she doesn't pull anymore."

I wondered if something similar would work for us because it has been suggested that I may be fuelling her anxiety by being anxious myself. 

The next day I took Honey to the place we have been using for training, took a deep breath, relaxed and walked forward. She followed and when she tried to pull away or forward I immediately stood still and relaxed the lead. She quickly stood still so I walked forward again, repeating this a dozen times in less than 50 metres. She eventually walked forward calmly and even went on to walk around the dodgy piece of road she had previously run away from, without hardly any stress. She even stopped to sniff a wall, something she has never done before in this place. Whenever I felt anxious I visibly relaxed, focused and stopped if she pulled. I even folded my arms and sighed so I wasn't tempted to pull on the lead. She looked a bit confused but was so much better, this gave me a lot more confidence. Needless to say she received a great deal of praise later and more treats. This has now been repeated for the last 4 days and she has not regressed at all. It also means she can visit the park again. 

We have achieved a great deal more than I ever thought possible in such a short space of time. I am cautiously optimistic that further improvement will be made and I will take this slowly. I have to admit that I seem to be the catalyst for her anxiety as I was anticipating her bad reaction by tensing up, so she thought there really was something to fear. 

I would like to thank Ceearott for her post and everyone else's suggestions on this thread.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

That's great! There are good and bad days in training, always it seems and backing off a bit for a few days, avoids the old behavour pattern.

Ignoring the dog, seems to be a hard thing to learn to do, but if you do have a behaviour with some attention pay-off, managing it, and rewarding with attention wanted behaviour can work very quickly. You gaining confidence must help a lot, and having things tough, is much easier when you can see some progress in the right direction.

Quite often people say "my dog is afraid of water" and then get surprised, when the phobic confidently joins others, who are having fun, and small steps add up quite quickly!

Well done, but do remember to stay safe though! Think this was the post you found.



Ceearott said:


> Prong collars and their more modern...
> 
> One of my bitches pulled me like a steam train for a long time, not responding to various training methods. I eventually took her out for a mile long walk and every time she pulled I stood still, no eye contact, no speaking, no tugging on lead, I simply stood still until she stood still, then set off again. It is very difficult to restrain yourself from not giving dog any contact and stopping yourself from getting annoyed, lol, but it worked and she doestn pull anymore! By the way, it took me and hour to walk a mile that day - longest time its ever took me, lol!! I certainly wouldnt use one on a dog that wouldnt walk to heel - far better training methods around these days than a fear/pain based one.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi, 
Just wanted to say thanks ever so much for your encouraging words. it means a lot. Yes that is the post I found but I wasn't sure how to transfer it to my post. I'm very glad you've done this and I just hope others can get something positive from this. 

We took Honey into a much busier environment yesterday to local village to see one of the lady's who rehomed her to us and she behaved very well. The traffic was slow moving and she barely reacted at all so we took her home a different way, which was busier, and she was much improved. She seems happier and seems more relaxed. I am still doing lots of deep breathing if I get tense at all! It's great because it means we can go places we could not access before, like the beach and other parks and countryside. 

I will continue to take things slowly and as you have said, will think carefully about our safety but I definitely feel more confident now that I can control her with my body language. Its been a steep learning curve but definitely worth it.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi, Have decided its time for another update on Honey's progress. 

I am currently thrilled with her. She is doing so well and its lovely to see her relaxing and trusting me more. We still have the odd moment but she is calming more quickly and not doing the hurtling off into the distance away from the traffic anymore.

We are now on holiday with my sister in Norfolk, who lives down a quiet lane. There is a house being built opposite and the concrete foundations have been laid today. There were cement lorries and an enormous cement mixer pump on a lorry. She wasn't taking any notice from the garden, so I put her on the lead and took her over to watch. She was so good and looked on with interest, without getting at all upset. This is an unbelievabe improvement. 

What I have learned from all this is to not give up as there is always a solution. :001_smile:


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi, its update time again. 

Well if you had known Honey a few weeks ago you just would not believe she is the same dog. I'm staying in Norfolk with my sis at the moment and we took her for a walk along a country road with fast moving traffic, sis holding the lead. Honey behaved beautifully and only pulled mildly a couple of times, then settled down and walked nicely. I have never let anyone other than my hubby hold her, especially near traffic. Sis did very well too. Lol. 

Yesterday I took her with hubby along a quiet lane but she could hear traffic on a parallel road doing 60+. She ignored it, so we continued to a village 2miles away. Walked her along the narrow pavement and encountered 3 huge lorries and a coach. Not a murmer. Needless to say she had lots of fuss and treats. We retired to the dog friendly pub and celebrated!

I am still aware that she may react but I could not be more please to have a normal dog! Thanks once again to everyone who has helped with their advice. :001_smile::001_smile::001_smile:


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

*


Honey Bee said:



Hi, its update time again.

Click to expand...

*


Honey Bee said:


> *Well if you had known Honey a few weeks ago you just would not believe she is the same dog. I'm staying in Norfolk with my sis at the moment and we took her for a walk along a country road with fast moving traffic, sis holding the lead. Honey behaved beautifully and only pulled mildly a couple of times, then settled down and walked nicely. I have never let anyone other than my hubby hold her, especially near traffic. Sis did very well too. Lol. *
> 
> *Yesterday I took her with hubby along a quiet lane but she could hear traffic on a parallel road doing 60+. She ignored it, so we continued to a village 2miles away. Walked her along the narrow pavement and encountered 3 huge lorries and a coach. Not a murmer. Needless to say she had lots of fuss and treats. We retired to the dog friendly pub and celebrated!*
> 
> *I am still aware that she may react but I could not be more please to have a normal dog! Thanks once again to everyone who has helped with their advice. :001_smile::001_smile::001_smile:*




Oh thats really good news and just shows what a bit of patience and perserverance can achieve.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Honey Bee said:


> Well if you had known Honey a few weeks ago you just would not believe she is the same dog. I'm staying in Norfolk with my sis at the moment and we took her for a walk along a country road with fast moving traffic, sis holding the lead. Honey behaved beautifully and only pulled mildly a couple of times, then settled down and walked nicely. I have never let anyone other than my hubby hold her, especially near traffic. Sis did very well too


That's lovely to see, and in such a relatively short time to, with totally dog & owner friendly humane methods! It is great what you've achieved, because you know she feels differently now and is getting over things genuinely!


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Cheers, it really is making me feel so much better and more confident. Went back up to the main road (cars doing 60+) today and stood near it and fed her treats while she totally ignored everything except the marrowbone biscuits in my hand and she ate them. She previously was so stressed she wouldn't eat anything, not even her favourites when she was that close to a minor road!
Yes it is a great success and I'm very proud of her. :001_smile:

I can only hope that this whole experience helps other dogs and people as well.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

As I've been quite stunned by today's developments I thought I would share them with you. 

Have been walking Honey from home to Southend Hospital so she can do her bit as a Pets As Therapy dog, now they have given her the ok to start there. Today was the fourth time we have done this and I went on my own with her. This involves a short distance, about two hundred yards, on the main A127 dual carriageway into Southend, speed limit 40 mph (allegedly). Each road crossing is on a zebra or pelican crossing, which is why I choose this route. I have been giving her treats when she's behaved and she's been really good so far. 

Today I took her to the small, enclosed park on the way home to let her relax and do her business. One side is next to the main road and you can see the tops of the lorries over the fence. The park was empty so I let her off the lead and was fiddling in my bag to get some water for her. When I looked up she was wandering along next to the fence by the main road, not a care in the world, tail wagging as the lorries and cars zoomed past. I kept quiet, (mostly disbelief) and she stayed there for some minutes, still not bothered. I am amazed but also very relieved and grateful. 

It is now very obvious that she hasn't really got a problem with the traffic any more and if she does have any further problems it will be because I have got tense about it. I am really pleased. :001_smile:


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Well done! Some owners just accept the dog's problems, rather than helping it, as they worry it will be too much trouble; and it's very frustrating.

Nice to see you have achieved so much and great that she now is a working dog with a job in therapy!


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## edidasa (May 7, 2011)

if your dog plays (with ball/tug) i'd introduce that too. after the treats... somethings playing can be exponentially better than food, for some dogs.


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## Pawsitive (Mar 24, 2011)

I have just read this thread (thanks Rob!  )

Congratulations to you and Honey!! Sounds like you have done (and are doing!) an amazing job with her and it's great she'll be working as a PAT dog. 

It's really lovely to hear about successes like this, you should feel really proud


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks so much everyone. Yes I am really proud of Honey, mainly because she is now trusting me more, which is allowing her to deal with her monsters!!! :lol:
She has been so different indoors, so very calm and composed, which is why we decided on the P.A.T Dog route for her. She needs to do something. She loves it too, which is great. I knew I needed to sort out the traffic if she was to go to the hospital as there is no hope of parking there, or anywhere near and the buses are hopeless! 

I've noted the comment about the ball and will use this in the park near the traffic, after she has been as it will really take her mind off anything else.


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## doglover94 (Aug 14, 2009)

Great thread - thank you - and so nice to see owners not going for the drug approach! My 3 year old Labrador has had a real issue with some noises - hoovers and lawn mowers in particular... We found a thing that was recommended for anxiety in dog - its called a Thunder Shirt and is a sort of dog coat that works by being a reassuring pressure on the dog's skin (a bit like swadddling a baby). Anyway, we had great success, and would have recommeded it had you not already solved the issue. 

Well done! Happy to hear about dogs having great owners.


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