# telling if a cat is pregnant?



## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

Not sure where to put this but breeding seems like my best bet! My brother has a female cat, she is an indoor cat but escaped while in season and came back 2 hours later, there are a couple of malea constantly outside their house when shes in season, my question - how likely is she to be pregnan?t, two, what are the earliest signs? When i was younger we fostered pregnant cats but i was 6/7 so dont remember much :/ we are a little worried as sheis very small... if she is pregnant will she survive?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

If mated there is always a chance she is pregnant.
Earliest signs are around 3 weeks when the teats turn a rosy red colour, followed by weight gain at 5/6 weeks.

Will she be ok in labour ...... well every pregnancy is a risk, I breed and I always worry about my girls even though they are a big breed.

I guess what you or rather the owner needs to decide is do you want kittens, if not book a spay now, if the answer is yes feed as much as she will eat and we can talk you through the rest later.


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## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

catcoonz said:


> If mated there is always a chance she is pregnant.
> Earliest signs are around 3 weeks when the teats turn a rosy red colour, followed by weight gain at 5/6 weeks.
> 
> Will she be ok in labour ...... well every pregnancy is a risk, I breed and I always worry about my girls even though they are a big breed.
> ...


Thankyou for replying so quickly! I will look out for the signs you said. X


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

If this escape was a recent occurrence then the most responsible thing would be to take her to a vet and have her spayed now. Just because she is indoors does not mean she is safe and the toms queued up outside are an obvious indication. Presumably (hopefully) there was no intention to breed from her so she should have been done at 5 months old or so for her own well being. Please do the right thing, there are too many kittens and cats in shelters already.


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## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

moggie14 said:


> If this escape was a recent occurrence then the most responsible thing would be to take her to a vet and have her spayed now. Just because she is indoors does not mean she is safe and the toms queued up outside are an obvious indication. Presumably (hopefully) there was no intention to breed from her so she should have been done at 5 months old or so for her own well being. Please do the right thing, there are too many kittens and cats in shelters already.


Unfortunately its not my choice, shes not my cat, there was no intention to breed - i have repeatedly said about spaying her but my brothers wife is very nervous since their previous cat died under anasthetic... x


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

can you get a photo of her to post so we can tell you if she is too small.


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## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

catcoonz said:


> can you get a photo of her to post so we can tell you if she is too small.


Im on my phone and cant figure out how but i have put her as my profile picture x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Sadly if she isn't neutered this could happen to her 3-5times a year escaping, having untold amount of kittens  and leaving a cat not to be neutered can cause serious illness to the point of death  

If she escaped for 2 hours and is now home, (any amount of males could have mated her, ones triple her size, you just don't know  I would just neuter her now, I know it isn't your choice but the other side of it is far worse  If she is small she may need a C-section, obviously that can go from £500-1000, and also a risk of losing mum, whether that is more so than a neuter? I don't know, she would be under longer for a C-section my guess would be?


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Cassies-mum said:


> Unfortunately its not my choice, shes not my cat, there was no intention to breed - i have repeatedly said about spaying her but my brothers wife is very nervous since their previous cat died under anasthetic... x


Also please tell your sister in law to read up about pyometra, its a very real risk in unspayed cats - the womb fills with pus, there are very few signs until the cat is really ill, then the only treatment is an emergency spay which is far more dangerous than a routine one.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

If your brother's wife is worried about her dying... Then she should get her spayed. The risk of cancer increases by 10% every year a cat goes unspayed. Pyometra is a big risk if she's allowed to call without mating. If she gets out and mates, it could be with a tom who carries FIV or Leukaemia. If kittens die inside her and nobody realises because they don't know what to look for, that's not good. If a kitten gets stuck or she cant' birth propperly, she will need a C section. Any one of these pregnancy/unspay related conditions can and do kill.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

You don't say how old this cat is (unless I missed it) but the reality is that the great majority of moggies give birth without any difficulties at all. If she was calling then indeed it is very likely that she is pregnant, you won't know until she is at least three weeks gone. The time to get her spayed, if that is what is decided, is as soon as she has stopped calling. If it is decided to go ahead with the pregnancy, then the chances are very high that things will be fine but, as others have said, if things go wrong they can go very wrong. If she's small because she is still a kitten then she will grow more before the kittens are bron which will obviously help.

Liz


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## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

she is 2, nearly 3 by guesstimates, I want to say some things - but won't. I understand spaying is preferable, HOWEVER SHE IS NOT MY CAT.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Cassies-mum said:


> she is 2, nearly 3 by guesstimates, I want to say some things - but won't. I understand spaying is preferable, HOWEVER SHE IS NOT MY CAT.


I understand your frustration - would it be possible to point your sister in law in the direction of this forum so she can read the responses ? We are not trying to scaremonger, its just that as breeders we know what can happen.

Also have a look at the "my cat is/might be pregnant" sticky a few lines up in the breeding section - lots of information on there.


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## korrok (Sep 4, 2013)

Cassies-mum said:


> she is 2, nearly 3 by guesstimates, I want to say some things - but won't. I understand spaying is preferable, HOWEVER SHE IS NOT MY CAT.


I think the intention isn't to scold you about the lack of spaying but to give you information that you could perhaps pass on to the cat's owners to help them understand the situation better. If you do not wish to get that far involved then that's your choice, but the information is there if you do want to have words with them. Don't take it personally.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I understand your SIL is nervous about having her spayed, having lost a cat that way, but the risk of mating with any old tom, having a first litter at her age and living as an unspayed cat in general is in fact greater.

Education is the key word here.

I hope you can convince her to do what is best for her cat. Do point her to this forum and let her learn about the true risks her cat is running this way.

And thank you for caring enough for someone else's cat to seek advice on her behalf. Your SIL is one lucky woman to have you around.


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## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

I will explain the risks to her, I just felt that people were being nastier then needed as it doesn't seem to sink in that I am not the owner of the cat in question, I am just looking for advice for family members. They spend a hell of a lot of money on their other cat who has a skin condition and love their cats, they are just very nervous about either option, which is understandable given their past experience, I am nervous about using collars on my cats due to past experience.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Sorry. I didn't mean it in a nasty way at all. It was simply information to pass back to her, as the risks are very real.

Sorry if I've caused offence. That really wasn't my intention.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Cassies-mum said:


> I will explain the risks to her, I just felt that people were being nastier then needed as it doesn't seem to sink in that I am not the owner of the cat in question, I am just looking for advice for family members. They spend a hell of a lot of money on their other cat who has a skin condition and love their cats, they are just very nervous about either option, which is understandable given their past experience, I am nervous about using collars on my cats due to past experience.


I am sure nobody is being nasty. Emotional, in some cases, yes, but just like your sister in law has had a bad experience with surgery in her previous cat, some people here have lost cats to breast cancer or pyometra, or lost kittens and/or the mother cat during delivery, due to their lack of knowledge of the risks, or because they had taken pity on an unspayed, often pregnant, stray. So, just like your SIL, they are reacting out of their own grief and out of concern for this cat. They simply want to prevent your sister in law having to go through the heartbreak they went through, themselves.
Many of the breeders who are reacting to this thread have been on the computer at all hours to talk inexperienced people through the birthing process of their cats or the strays they had taken in, and have experienced heartbreak, either with their own cats, or in assisting these people with their kitties.

All we want is to help you help your sister in law and her cat get through this probable pregnancy without them having to pay the ultimate price, and to point out the options and the risk involved in each option, so she can make the best choice for her cat.

I am convinced I do not stand alone in applauding you for taking an interest and getting advice on her behalf, but there simply is no gentle way to point out what can only be described as grave risks.

Nobody is having a go at you, people are simply voicing their genuine concerns.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

** Mini rant alert **

Getting ever so slightly fed up with being asked for advice and giving it with the best of intentions and in good faith, then getting accused of being nasty.
I cannot see any nasty comments at all and if there were I'd be happy to apologise, but I won't say sorry for having an opinion and giving it when asked. You have some good advice here and it is your decision to follow it or not.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

I understand your frustration. My BIL has a dog he refuses to have neutered. He was even joking the other week about trying to get it to mate with his buddy's unspayed female. We have begged and pleaded and shamed and you name it we've tried it to get him to just get it done. He claims he can't afford it, but deep down, he really does want his dog to make some puppies who will more than likely end up in a shelter.  :incazzato:

Not to stray off topic, but I wanted you to know I hear you and I understand how it is when trying to help other people. Your relatives of course sound responsible, and I would be terrified too if I were them and had lost a pet under anaestheia. I'm scared every time I have one go in. 

But the likelihood of lightning striking twice is very very slim. And it's probably a much higher chance of not being able to find homes for all the kittens than it is that another pet will die in surgery. Not to mention that repeated calls are hard on her and she will continue to try to escape, so they could end up facing this situation again in the future. I don't have much to add to try to convince them, but keep trying. And I applaud your efforts to step in.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I think that everyone stated to pass on the information, no one was being 'nasty' just pointing out the real life situations, and at 3 she is possibly a bit older for her first litter, when cats get older their pelvis shrinks making giving birth harder (at least this is what I have read and have been told) So her age and being small and the chance of being mated by many random boys, it doesn't sound too good does it? 

Ask her to pop over and read our responses, it is VERY rare for a cat to die when being neutered, and normally it is due to a un-seen problem, the majority and neutered daily with no problems what so ever. Im not sure anyone else can add much more? Just hope it all goes well what ever she chooses 

p.s. I hate collars and refuse to use them!


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Out of interest what would people suggest if the vet refuses to pregnant spay.

Some vets do refuse to spay a cat that is pregnant. 

Not a debate please, just nice suggestions.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Cassies-mum said:


> I will explain the risks to her, I just felt that people were being nastier then needed as it doesn't seem to sink in that I am not the owner of the cat in question, I am just looking for advice for family members. They spend a hell of a lot of money on their other cat who has a skin condition and love their cats, they are just very nervous about either option, which is understandable given their past experience, I am nervous about using collars on my cats due to past experience.


To be honest, I just read through the whole thread for the first time and haven't seen any genuinely nasty responses - passionate, yes, but not actually nasty. And you must remember that some of the people responding post witha level of urgency because they have seen the awful things that can happen when a pregnancy goes wrong, or an unspayed female gets ill from something that spaying can help prevent.

Yes, anesthesia is always a risk, but is a calculated, one off risk. However, the risks of keeping her unspayed are far greater.


10% increase in cancer risk per year
Repeated pregnancies if allowed outside/escapes during call, perhaps 2 or 3 a year (risk)
Birth difficulties requiring emergency c-section (risk)
Reduced lifespan by several years due to repeated preganancies (big risk/guaranteed)
Reduced lifespan by several years due to repeated calling (guaranteed)
Sexually transmitted diseases and HIV (big risk)
Injuries from fighting off males (big risk - my SPAYED 8yo was bitten by an entire male last year, left her with bone deep abcesses and on antibiotics and pain meds for weeks)
Mated by a much larger animal and kits are too big to be born (risk)
Risks associated with wide roaming to find a mate (roads etc.) (risk)
Risk of pyometra from repeated calls without being mated if kept indoors (risk/big risk)

And that's by no means a complete list. I can't speak for your relatives, but whilst I freely admit I was nervous as anything when Lori went in for her spay, I knew it was by far the best thing I could ever do for her during her life healthwise


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

catcoonz said:


> Out of interest what would people suggest if the vet refuses to pregnant spay.
> 
> Some vets do refuse to spay a cat that is pregnant.
> 
> Not a debate please, just nice suggestions.


Ask another vet! :laugh: I cant see if its genuine concern/cause a vet not doing it though? IF she only escaped a few days go, then you take her now, don't even have to tell the vet as there wont be anything there to see!

I had spoken to vets that have been neutering and seen the cat is pregnant and then they call the owners to see what they want to do! They always say they didn't realise and have gone on with the neuter, alto of them were quite far gone as well!


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I had this problem afew years ago, 2 vets refused to pregnant spay but then the cat was 5 weeks pregnant.

Some vets will spay which I found last year at a much higher cost, normal spay £72 pregnant spay £300.

Luckily I have many vets near me to choose from but the OP may not be so lucky.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Oh, this is nothing compared to some past threads on accidental pregnancies. Just look at some and you'll see the comments you have received are informative and pretty friendly to me.

I understand you're in a pickle with this as it's not your cat but if you could just show them this thread and the responses given it may give them a good wake up call. If not, get them to look up the risks of her not being spayed, and the cost if she keeps kittens. C sections I am told can cost up to £1500. Then there's the chance some of the kits won't make it (it's heartbreaking) She might not too and more money on top, including what will become of the kittens. Not many people want moggies and they are hard to find good homes for.

I learnt a lot in coming on this forum and got great advice so see if they will come and look at this thread. It's a start if you can get them to.

And try not to get too stressed you.  All you can do is try.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

This is a very early stage of pregnancy (kittens won't actually have implanted yet). I am one who would never ever knowingly have a pregnant cat spayed unless the risk to her life was very serious, which is why you will never hear me advising to spay in these circumstances. However the reality is that in this case the vet would not even know.

But whatever is decided this time, the issue will have to be faced at some point unless the owner is willing to have litter after litter after litter. Two litters a year is the norm. Three is possible if the kittens are sold at 6-8 weeks. If Mum happens to be black or black and white, the problems of homing kittens will become apparent just as soon as she has any that are ready to leave home between June and August. I speak from bitter experience!

Liz


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

To be fair, TB, I don't see how the pelvis could shrink. It's a boney structure. Bones don't shrink.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

carly87 said:


> To be fair, TB, I don't see how the pelvis could shrink. It's a boney structure. Bones don't shrink.


I dont think its that the pelvis shrinks - how it was explained to me is that when a cat is bred round about a year old the ligaments etc that have to stretch for kittens to pass are still flexible so kittens pass easily - they never go back to exactly the same position so then the cat is set up for subsequent births - whether or not this is an old wives tail I have no idea


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

3 isn't old for a cat, and I don't see how pelvis can shrink even in older cats. Yes they can get arthritis, but she's a long way off getting to that stage.
I've read nothing but passionate and caring replies on this thread and I wish your SIL does get her spayed. Its not fair to have a female cat in the house having her coming on heat all the time and not mating.


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## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

I understand people are passionate but the majority pf advice i have received has been "spay or your cat will basically die" my sister in law has decided to spay, but after any kittens are born, and homed etc...


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

These threads are usually like that, I'm afraid.

liz


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Cassies-mum said:


> I will explain the risks to her, I just felt that people were being nastier then needed as it doesn't seem to sink in that I am not the owner of the cat in question, I am just looking for advice for family members. They spend a hell of a lot of money on their other cat who has a skin condition and love their cats, they are just very nervous about either option, which is understandable given their past experience, I am nervous about using collars on my cats due to past experience.


People here are not "nasty", they just really love their cats and know what they are doing with them, and maybe they are just tired of the same scenario coming up again and again - an entire female on heat got out - oh, what shall we do? There were quite a few threads like that on this forum recently and a sticky. Why don't the visitors read before they ask the same question again and again? Attention seeking? Then why not post some nice photos of your cats? Or tell us something new?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Whatever decision is made I am happy to help even if its 3am, you know where I am if you need me.

If you need a vet let me know, well whatever help I can be I am always happy to help.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Cassies-mum said:


> I understand people are passionate but *the majority pf advice i have received has been "spay or your cat will basically die" *my sister in law has decided to spay, but after any kittens are born, and homed etc...


Unfortunately, this is simply because it is genuinely true. Even if a cat doesn't develop any of the life threatening/terminal conditions, its lifespan will still be significantly reduced due to the strain continual calling (plus any actual pregnancies) puts on the cats body. Neutering isn't the ONLY reason female pet cats routinely live twice as long as their feral counterparts, but it is the main reason.

So it's good to hear that your sister has decide to spay - well done for encouraging her 



Kotanushka said:


> Why don't the visitors read before they ask the same question again and again? Attention seeking?


No, not usually. People post first because they are upset/emotional/frightened/panicking/frustrated and just want answers - psychologically, sitting down and calmly looking for the appropriate thing to read is not something most people are good at when stressed (if it were, then many people like me in tech support would be out of a job, as people would RTFM - Read The Flaming Manual  ) Yes, these kind of questions get routine for longer serving forum members, but new people don't know that.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm glad you've encouraged your sister to spay; I wish your cat gets through this unfortunate pregnancy and you get some lovely kittens


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Cassies-mum said:


> I understand people are passionate but the majority pf advice i have received has been "spay or your cat will basically die" my sister in law has decided to spay, but after any kittens are born, and homed etc...


Sigh... If only she had been spayed as soon as she came back. What colour is her cat? I hope not black or black & white as those kittens are harder to find homes for. I also hope all goes well with the delivery and raising of the kittens. Since she has decided to let the probably pregnancy continue she needs to be reading up on the process. There is a lot of information in the sticky:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/298452-my-cat-might-pregnant-what-should-i-do.html

However I see that the links I put in it are now not working because of the change from FAB to iCatCare. Here some working alternatives:

My cat is having kittens | international cat care (read all the articles it links to, listed towards the left of the page)
http://www.icatcare.org/advice/keeping-your-cat-healthy (point out the need for worming & flea control)
Neutering your cat | international cat care
http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/Pages/Early_Age_Spay_Neuter.pdf
http://www.icatcare.org/sites/default/files/PDF/1-timing-of-neutering1.pdf
Spay and Neuter for Cats: Winn Feline Foundation


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Wicket, it's hormones such as relaxin that allow the ligaments to become flexible enough to allow kittens to pass. You need the hormone for the stretch initially, so the age shouldn't really come into it. The ligaments will never be quite as good as they were, but whether that process starts at 1 or 2 doesn't really make a difference, and you still need the Relaxin with every birth, i.e, the ligaments aren't left stretchy, and still need the hormone to become stretchy enough for the kittens to pass. Hope that makes sense!


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Wicket, it's hormones such as relaxin that allow the ligaments to become flexible enough to allow kittens to pass. You need the hormone for the stretch initially, so the age shouldn't really come into it. The ligaments will never be quite as good as they were, but whether that process starts at 1 or 2 doesn't really make a difference, and you still need the Relaxin with every birth, i.e, the ligaments aren't left stretchy, and still need the hormone to become stretchy enough for the kittens to pass. Hope that makes sense!


Now that is a great explanation that does make sense thank you


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

carly87 said:


> To be fair, TB, I don't see how the pelvis could shrink. It's a boney structure. Bones don't shrink.





wicket said:


> I dont think its that the pelvis shrinks - how it was explained to me is that when a cat is bred round about a year old the ligaments etc that have to stretch for kittens to pass are still flexible so kittens pass easily - they never go back to exactly the same position so then the cat is set up for subsequent births - whether or not this is an old wives tail I have no idea





carly87 said:


> Wicket, it's hormones such as relaxin that allow the ligaments to become flexible enough to allow kittens to pass. You need the hormone for the stretch initially, so the age shouldn't really come into it. The ligaments will never be quite as good as they were, but whether that process starts at 1 or 2 doesn't really make a difference, and you still need the Relaxin with every birth, i.e, the ligaments aren't left stretchy, and still need the hormone to become stretchy enough for the kittens to pass. Hope that makes sense!


All the above, sorry I did say that was how it was explained to me!  Much better explanation you gave than me haha!  :laugh: I was told that as they get older it becomes a lot harder for them to pass, like humans?! Maybe the person was wrong, they were a vet after all haha :laugh:



Cassies-mum said:


> I understand people are passionate but the majority pf advice i have received has been "spay or your cat will basically die" my sister in law has decided to spay, but after any kittens are born, and homed etc...


We are only giving real accounts of what can happen  Please tell her that kittens need to be rehomed at 12-13weeks of age, not 8weeks and mum should be neutered when they are around 10-13weeks of age, I truly hope it goes well, but kitten season is upon us when they will be born, it will be really hard to rehome them esp if they are black / black&white sadly 

If she needs more advice let us know, rem to worm mum, and if she can read up on kitten births in case she needs to revive or help mum pass one, which is a possibility if mum is small and the boys she mated are large! Also look for early neuter vets if she is willing to do that before the kittens leave!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Perhaps relaxin does become less effective with age, who knows. It's not something I've ever come across in my medical training for humans though, and google has nothing to suggest this is the case either. But perhaps vets know something I don't. Curious now. I'm going to ask a vet friend.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Perhaps relaxin does become less effective with age, who knows. It's not something I've ever come across in my medical training for humans though, and google has nothing to suggest this is the case either. But perhaps vets know something I don't. Curious now. I'm going to ask a vet friend.


Or less of it is produced. Think it's more likely to have been closely studied in humans than in cats...


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

That's possible, although my vet friend has never heard of this either.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I have no idea, I was just told that when they are older it can be harder for them to give birth as something shrinks, or words to that effect, this was a few years ago! He said its like humans giving birth very old, or maybe it was having their first baby later on in life, like a first time mum age 5 onwards? I honestly cant remember now!  I cant even fine it on google... ignore me haha :lol:


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