# Breeding



## Buggles (Jul 14, 2009)

I'm putting this in general chat as it relates to all animals and there isn't anywhere else it can go.

There seem to be a LOT of people on here who breed animals. Be it hamsters, rabbits, cats, dogs etc.

My question is (and this is not me having a go at anybody, I am just genuinely curious).

Why do you breed when there are THOUSANDS of homeless hamsters/rabbits/cats/dogs etc out there. Do you ever think that by you breeding, you could well be adding to these numbers?

What about the health of your pets? They don't get a say in whether or not they want to have babies or not.

How many litters do you think is enough?

I really am just genuinely curious and not here to have a go at anybody


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

I can only talk for dogs.
But imo a resposible breeder will NEVER have one of there dogs in a rescue and will take back a pup they have breed no matter how old it is..so i wouldnt say they add to rescue numbers!

I also belive one litter a year is enough 
I wouldnt breed a bitch any more times than 2 in her life time.

All just my views of course..


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## Buggles (Jul 14, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> I can only talk for dogs.
> But imo a resposible breeder will NEVER have one of there dogs in a rescue and will take back a pup they have breed no matter how old it is..so i wouldnt say they add to rescue numbers!
> 
> I also belive one litter a year is enough
> ...


How can you be 100% certain though that the dog wouldn't end up in rescue? Not many people are going to take a dog back to a breeder. Once that dog has left your home, you have no say over what happens to it.

Plus what if somebody bred (either accidently or on purpose) that dog, producing, say, 6 puppies... 3 of which may be bred again etc etc. It soon adds up.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

Buggles said:


> How can you be 100% certain though that the dog wouldn't end up in rescue? Not many people are going to take a dog back to a breeder. Once that dog has left your home, you have no say over what happens to it.


ALL of our puppies leave with contracts that the new owners sign stating that the pup will be brought back here know matter how old if that person can no longer care for it..they also go with breeding restrictions so they cant be bred from unless WE say so...so i beg to differ where you say breeders have no say because we sure do.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm not a breeder but I don't see anything wrong with breeding pedigree dogs that have been health tested. I could have went to a rescue and got any old pup but I only like poodles and I wanted a poodle I could show so I went to a good breeder. I could have been very lucky and got a poodle puppy from a rescue but I wouldn't be allowed to show it. One day I'll get a poodle from a rescue but for now I want a poodle to show. Not all the breeds/cross breeds in rescues suit everyone unless they go to a breed resuce. 

I don't agree with any animal being badly bred but alot of pet shop pets are poorly bred and end up at the bottom of the garden because the kids got bored. There's loads of guinea pigs and rabbits in rescue and I never realised this until I got a piggie. There does need to be good breeders of these animals but they shouldn't be so 'mass produced' and easy to get ahold of.


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

i cant answer for breeders of most animals but i do know where cats are concerned in scotland it can actually be quite difficult to get a cat or a kitten from a rescue place also they were not even at capacity during kitten season here. one example here for you.. i am in glasgow, live in a 2 bed flat with my 2 children aged 4 and 7 have 3 cats now but only had 1 at the time and have a giant enclosed back garden but the rspca would not allow me to have a cat but i could have a dog so my only option to get a cat or kitten is to go to a breeder. I now volunteer and do some advertising for a cat rescue and also would be used as an emergency forsterer if the rescue was at capacity which it isnt. I can understand why people breed cats here in scotland because it seems more difficult to get a cat. I cant comment for the rest of the uk etc but i hope that helps a little.


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## Cassies-mum (Jul 22, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> ALL of our puppies leave with contracts that the new owners sign stating that the pup will be brought back here now matter how old if that person can no longer care for it..they also go with breeding restrictions so they cant be bred from unless WE say so...so i beg to differ where you say breeders have no say because we sure do.


we had contracts to that effect drawn up when we planned to breed


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

I can't speak for breeders as I'm not one but some people don't want a rescue animal for whatever reason. So why can't responsible breeders breed when there is demand as well as keeping pups/kittens/etc for themselves or bettering their breed?


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## Buggles (Jul 14, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> ALL of our puppies leave with contracts that the new owners sign stating that the pup will be brought back here now matter how old if that person can no longer care for it..they also go with breeding restrictions so they cant be bred from unless WE say so...so i beg to differ where you say breeders have no say because we sure do.


Maybe so, but not everybody will ask permission. Plus that doesn't stop accidental pregnancies.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I think breeding is ok as long as the breeder is reponsible and reputable. I tend to get my animals from breeders, and think about it, if no-one bred any animals, in a number of years, there would be no more animals.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

Buggles said:


> Maybe so, but not everybody will ask permission. Plus that doesn't stop accidental pregnancies.


We stay incontact with all our pup buyers and im 100% certain that if one of our pups got pregnant by an accident that the owner would be straight on to use for advise! ..We offer our pup buyers support 24/7 know matter how little or how big the problem is...after all some one that takes one of our babies becomes part of our family them selves!


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> ALL of our puppies leave with contracts that the new owners sign stating that the pup will be brought back here know matter how old if that person can no longer care for it..they also go with breeding restrictions so they cant be bred from unless WE say so...so i beg to differ where you say breeders have no say because we sure do.


Alfie had a contract and could have ended up in rescue


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

Rescues add more to their problems of high numbers by being so picky about new owners!!!
just because someone works fulltime,has kids,other pets,no garden,lives in a flat etc etc doesnt mean they shouldnt or cant take care of a cat/dog properly
Also some,not all of dogs in resues have behaviour problems that many people wouldnt want to deal with,so for this reason a breeder is best for them.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Wow what a subject


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## Buggles (Jul 14, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> We stay incontact with all our pup buyers and im 100% certain that if one of our pups got pregnant by an accident that the owner would be straight on to use for advise! ..We offer our pup buyers support 24/7 know matter how little or how big the problem is...after all some one that takes one of our babies becomes part of our family them selves!


It sounds like you are a fantastic breeder! Shame not all are!


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Cassies-mum said:


> we had contracts to that effect drawn up when we planned to breed


do these contracts stand up in a court of law or are they just bits of paper?? once the new owner is the registerd owner i dont see how any breeder can say if they need rehoming they come back. Ok they can be endorsed but that wont stop people breeding just means they cant be registerd.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

rona said:


> Alfie had a contract and could have ended up in rescue


we are very luck that 9 times out of 10 cresteds end up in chinese crested rescue...where the two wonderful ladies find the breeders and let them know they have one of there pupsters so im 10000% sure if a pup of ours ended up in rescue we would have it straight back here in hours..But like i said we stay incontact with all pup buyers and they become friends..so we would get the dog back! of that im 100000% sure.


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Everyone have different motives. A lot of people breed because they are passionate about a particular breed of animal. I speak for myself here but I hope to start breeding british shorthairs because I think they are stunning cats. 

I love going to and parcipating in cat shows and I would like the opportunity to breed cats that are very successful in the show ring and stunning examples of the british shorthair breed. They really are a lovely breed and make fab pets. We will only be having 1 litter per year and any cats which cannot find forever homes, or need to be re-homed will always have a home waiting for them with me. 

Like Dogs breeders in the cat fancy draw up contracts saying their cats cannot be breed from and the breeder should be contacted if they need re-homing. Some breeders also early neuter or withhold change of ownership documents until the new owner can provide proof of neutering.

xx


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

We have rescued dogs all our lives and still have a few rescued ones.
We still will have rescue dog's.
But i have always wanted to breed,so next year i am going too.
But first i will make sure my bitch has all the health tests even though she is a cross breed,better safe than sorry.
Also i will find homes before the puppies are born.
If for some reason a puppy needs to come back to us we will take it back.
Hope this answers you question a little.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> we are very luck that 9 times out of 10 cresteds end up in chinese crested rescue...where the two wonderful ladies find the breeders and let them know they have one of there pupsters so im 10000% sure if a pup of ours ended up in rescue we would have it straight back here in hours..But like i said we stay incontact with all pup buyers and they become friends..so we would get the dog back! of that im 100000% sure.


But you are one of a thousand or more breeders, what of the rest of the so called responsible breeders? Which Alfies breeder would have been classed as


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

rona said:


> But you are one of a thousand or more breeders, what of the rest of the so called responsible breeders? Which Alfies breeder would have been classed as


I cant talk for them..all i can say is we are not adding to the on going rescue problem.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I think the reasons people breed animals are too many to list on here.

However to take your point re why breed as there are so many in rescue?

The fact that there are so many gerbils for instance in rescue says nothing to the breeder who is perhaps trying to breed a certain breed of gerbil or a different colour or a bigger one or one that lives longer or a healthier type.

The same with dogs if you breed Chihuahuas then the fact rescues are full of Staffies is not really an issue.

Much as I see why you are asking the question and in principle it seems silly to continue breeding when there are so many rescue animals, the reality is that many people are breeding to achieve a goal, whether that is developing or fine tuning a breed/species or breeding show animals then the two things "breeding" and "rescue" are really entirely separate. 
People will always want "lovely" or "rare" or "different" animals, so there is always a niche market for those animals. If someone's heart is set on a Bichon puppy, then not matter how many Staffies or Collie crosses or Rotties are in rescue then they will not be interested.

However concerning those who breed indiscriminately or for no good reason apart from money or I "want" then you may have a fair point.


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## Buggles (Jul 14, 2009)

Colsy said:


> We have rescued dogs all our lives and still have a few rescued ones.
> We still will have rescue dog's.
> But i have always wanted to breed,so next year i am going too.
> But first i will make sure my bitch has all the health tests even though she is a cross breed,better safe than sorry.
> ...


Thats another question I meant to ask and forgot. Why are people purposely breeding cross breeds for? and then giving them stupid names lol (chorkies etc)


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> I think the reasons people breed animals are too many to list on here.
> 
> However to take your point re why breed as there are so many in rescue?
> 
> ...


very well put


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## Ladywiccana (Feb 24, 2008)

*Because at the end of the day, its what people want to do, and why should we question it??????? We dont know the people personally! And no im not a breeder, and i havent even got a dog at present, but will have one in the future!

Its not the breeders you need to question, its the puppy farms that need questioning and closing down!

As i feel professional breeders are trying to keep the bloodlines perfect in there breed for the future of the dog world, for breeding purposes and showing purposes!

Also as previously said, the rescue centres dont always help the situation because they are picky, and dont always let people have the dog they would like to choose for themselves, so this normally results in people turning away from rescue and in search of a breeder!*


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Buggles said:


> Thats another question I meant to ask and forgot. Why are people purposely breeding cross breeds for? and then giving them stupid names lol (chorkies etc)


You tell me lol

I thought Keith was a great name!!!!


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Colsy said:


> You tell me lol


they look cute??? and the price maybe as they charge alot well most do.


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

I breed rats to create beautiful, healthy creatures that improve the species. I don't breed often and only when I know they'll be going to responsible, loving pet homes. 

Any other animals I get though I will be getting from a rescue.

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

I do think some breeders who deliberately cross 2 breeds are in it for money. Especially the tiny crosses................people see celebs with them and they want them. The 'breeders' see the market............and yep also see the £££ signs.

I am not talking about you Colsy.....i for one am looking forward to following Hunny B's progress!! Labradoodles and Goldendoodles have been around for many years, they were actually bred for a reason.....Australia they started if i am thinking right!??

I am not saying i would do it, but there is a difference between them and say the 'Chorkies, Matli-poms, Yorkiepoo's etc etc................who were not bred for any purpose..........


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> I do think some breeders who deliberately cross 2 breeds are in it for money. Especially the tiny crosses................people see celebs with them and they want them. The 'breeders' see the market............and yep also see the £££ signs.
> 
> I am not talking about you Colsy.....i for one am looking forward to following Hunny B's progress!! Labradoodles and Goldendoodles have been around for many years, they were actually bred for a reason.....Australia they started if i am thinking right!??
> 
> I am not saying i would do it, but there is a difference between them and say the 'Chorkies, Matli-poms, Yorkiepoo's etc etc................who were not bred for any purpose..........


what was the reason to breed a goldendoodle?


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Buggles said:


> Thats another question I meant to ask and forgot. Why are people purposely breeding cross breeds for? and then giving them stupid names lol (chorkies etc)


The same reason people purposely breed dogs considered better by a small club (the KC) and give them stupid names.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Natik said:


> what was the reason to breed a goldendoodle?


Was it not for the same? Sorry if i sound a bit stupid on this but i really don't know anything about them my own studies haven't gone into crosses yet  i just know they started in Aussie?


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> Was it not for the same? Sorry if i sound a bit stupid on this but i really don't know anything about them my own studies haven't gone into crosses yet  i just know they started in Aussie?


do u mean as a hypoallergenic dog?


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

The only crosses that should be bred are sprockers and sprollies. They have a purpose in the working field and can have the benefits of both breeds in them. But I normally only agree with pedigree breeding.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> The only crosses that should be bred are sprockers and sprollies. They have a purpose in the working field and can have the benefits of both breeds in them. But I normally only agree with pedigree breeding.


What about the pedigrees without a purpose?


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Natik said:


> What about the pedigrees without a purpose?


You mean the Pekis, Pugs etc? I don't really think they should be bred unless the breeder is trying to make the puppies healthier, ie, breeding longer noses, less wrinkles etc.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> Was it not for the same? Sorry if i sound a bit stupid on this but i really don't know anything about them my own studies haven't gone into crosses yet  i just know they started in Aussie?


"Goldendoodles" appeared first in North America and it appears to be the case that, unlike their labrador cross cousins, there is no move to try and get them listed on one of the registries. Most owners like the first cross and it appears the first cross has lighter shedding although this is not guaranteed (as with any "breed").


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> The only crosses that should be bred are sprockers and sprollies. They have a purpose in the working field and can have the benefits of both breeds in them. But I normally only agree with pedigree breeding.


Don't get me wrong i love sprolly's But what work would they be bred for?


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Badger's Mum said:


> Don't get me wrong i love sprolly's But what work would they be bred for?


field work, flushing etc. don't know the ins and outs but the same as springers and cockers.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Natik said:


> do u mean as a hypoallergenic dog?


I know that this was a part of it, but wasn't it also Search and rescue that bred them too?? Sorry i really don't know, i am going to do a little research after sounded a bit dense in the subject  lol!



SEVEN_PETS said:


> The only crosses that should be bred are sprockers and sprollies. They have a purpose in the working field and can have the benefits of both breeds in them. But I normally only agree with pedigree breeding.


I do not agree with at all. There are plenty breeds for that purpose without crosses.



Elmo the Bear said:


> "Goldendoodles" appeared first in North America and it appears to be the case that, unlike their labrador cross cousins, there is no move to try and get them listed on one of the registries. Most owners like the first cross and it appears the first cross has lighter shedding although this is not guaranteed (as with any "breed").


Thanks for that! I now know!


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> field work, flushing etc. don't know the ins and outs but the same as springers and cockers.


So why would they be needed???


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> field work, flushing etc. don't know the ins and outs but the same as springers and cockers.


Whoa, I wouldn't like to go out with a gundog with Collie in it


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> The only crosses that should be bred are sprockers and sprollies. They have a purpose in the working field and can have the benefits of both breeds in them. But I normally only agree with pedigree breeding.


Why only pedigree breeding? Most of it does not promote health and then there is the earlier question of pedigrees without a purpose - I consider all my dogs (pedigrees, crosses and mongrels) have a purpose; as companions to my family.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Well I haven't bred yet, but when i do, it will be to improve the breed (GSD) in a few years we will be purchasing a good quality pup from good lines and great hip scores etc, then when she is old enough and had all the relevant tests (if the results are anything less than excellent we wont breed) she will be bred with a male picked just as carefully as she is.


I am just getting into breeding fish (platy) I have a verbal contract with my pet shop to take them. But I want to look into doing it to get 'true' colours and that takes a few generations. I will be keeping some of them myself and giving some to family and friends.

x


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> field work, flushing etc. don't know the ins and outs but the same as springers and cockers.


but colly's round up springer's and cocker's flush great looking dog's though That was the first bit of advice my gamekeeper gave me when i was looking for my springer as his black and white to make shaw he wasn't a sprolly


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> *I know that this was a part of it, but wasn't it also Search and rescue that bred them too?? Sorry i really don't know, i am going to do a little research after sounded a bit dense in the subject  lol! *
> 
> I do not agree with at all. There are plenty breeds for that purpose without crosses.
> 
> Thanks for that! I now know!


but there are plenty of other breeds for that purpose too? why do u agree with those crosses and others not?

Plenty pedigrees are being bred for the purpose of companionship, just like many crosses are being bred for that reason...


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

Chinese cresteds do not have a "job" !!!


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Natik said:


> but there are plenty of other breeds for that purpose too? why do u agree with those crosses and others not?
> 
> Plenty pedigrees are being bred for the purpose of companionship, just like many crosses are being bred for that reason...


I didn't say i agreed.

I really am on the wall about crosses..............i just don't know 100% if i do back them or not. Sometimes i do sometimes i don't! Some breeds i could be persauded a lot i can't!

Sorry i really truthfully do not enough about it all to make my comments set in stone!


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

rona said:


> Whoa, I wouldn't like to go out with a gundog with Collie in it


I said that you got there before me


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

I think the earlier issue about specific breeds doing specific things is misleading. I know wonderful cocker's that don't like the water and a JR that is terrified of rats. Many dogs are capable of being trained to do many things..and to some it comes naturally, but that is not necessarily because of the breed.

... recent article in Shooting Times by a wildfowler saying a "Labradoodle" was the easiest gun dog he'd ever trained..


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> I didn't say i agreed.
> 
> I really am on the wall about crosses..............i just don't know 100% if i do back them or not. Sometimes i do sometimes i don't! Some breeds i could be persauded a lot i can't!
> 
> Sorry i really truthfully do not enough about it all to make my comments set in stone!


I'm the same. Some crosses just seem to fit together, but some really don't and you think, why the hell did you breed those together?


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> I didn't say i agreed.


sorry, i thought by saying "im not talking about u colsy.." and the 2 x breeds singled out u would agree with those but not other ones 

I might have misunderstood u there :smilewinkgrin:


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> Some crosses just seem to fit together, but some really don't and you think, why the hell did you breed those together?


Because those were the two dogs male and female that they just happened to own at the time.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I think the earlier issue about specific breeds doing specific things is misleading. I know wonderful cocker's that don't like the water and a JR that is terrified of rats. Many dogs are capable of being trained to do many things..and to some it comes naturally, but that is not necessarily because of the breed.
> 
> ... recent article in Shooting Times by a wildfowler saying a "Labradoodle" was the easiest gun dog he'd ever trained..


But Poodles and Labs were originally gundogs, the Poodle a water dog


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I think the earlier issue about specific breeds doing specific things is misleading. I know wonderful cocker's that don't like the water and a JR that is terrified of rats. Many dogs are capable of being trained to do many things..and to some it comes naturally, but that is not necessarily because of the breed.
> 
> ... recent article in Shooting Times by a wildfowler saying a "Labradoodle" was the easiest gun dog he'd ever trained..


I read that aswell made good reading didn't it? poddle's were working dog's though wern't they?


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## Molly's Mum (May 22, 2009)

We seem to have deviated away from the orginal post lol. I do find it interesting that certain cross breeds are accepted more than others, it's does appear that poodles crosses are readily accepted, I wonder why?


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Toy and mini poodles were bred so people could have the standard poodle as a pet but smaller. Cheeko hates water unless it's from the hose in the garden. Blu seems to love water so far and he's good at fetching things so I suppose he's more of a poodle than Cheeko. I'm not sure if there is such thing as working poodles left anymore.. Never really thought about it. I suppose the other purpose of them is they are great at obedience and agility


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> Toy and mini poodles were bred so people could have the standard poodle as a pet but smaller. Cheeko hates water unless it's from the hose in the garden. Blu seems to love water so far and he's good at fetching things so I suppose he's more of a poodle than Cheeko. I'm not sure if there is such thing as working poodles left anymore.. Never really thought about it. I suppose the other purpose of them is they are great at obedience and agility


I've seen a working Poodle retrieving Duck


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

rona said:


> I've seen a working Poodle retrieving Duck


I wasn't sure if working lines from poodles had died out or not. Cheeko is good at chasing birds etc right enough


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Natik said:


> sorry, i thought by saying "im not talking about u colsy.." and the 2 x breeds singled out u would agree with those but not other ones
> 
> I might have misunderstood u there :smilewinkgrin:


Lol! No.. I like Colsy and love following puppy threads!! (in this case its not yet but its being thought about!!) It not to say i 100% agree with cross breeding.......

Whatever anybody thinks Colsy (and others)...are doing it completely right, just the same as any top pedigree breeder. That to me speaks volumes.....


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

Molly's Mum said:


> We seem to have deviated away from the orginal post lol. I do find it interesting that certain cross breeds are accepted more than others, it's does appear that poodles crosses are readily accepted, I wonder why?


The NI was a crossbreed of three founder breeds too, and also seems to be accepted as a non recognised breed.
What the purpose behind that one ?


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> The NI was a crossbreed of three founder breeds too, and also seems to be accepted as a non recognised breed.
> What the purpose behind that one ?


companionship....

...i dont get it that people accept some certain crosses but not other ones


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

Natik said:


> companionship....
> 
> ...i dont get it that people accept some certain crosses but not other ones


I thought they were bred to resemble a wolf in appearance.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I thought they were bred to resemble a wolf in appearance.


thats the look...not a purpose


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Badger's Mum said:


> I read that aswell made good reading didn't it? poddle's were working dog's though wern't they?


I was trying to make the point that there are pedigrees with a purpose but they don't always fulfill that purpose. I think the reasons the Labradoodle made a good gundog was that it had the soft mouth of the lab. The aricle made the point that some labs won't go into thick undergrowth to retrieve so its not always a certainty that the breed will live up to its rep.

Our Labradoodle will go straight into any bush, long grass, patch of stingers and bring you a rabbit.....

... she will then proceed to eat it.... is that the lab or the poodle


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## Molly's Mum (May 22, 2009)

Natik said:


> companionship....
> 
> ...i dont get it that people accept some certain crosses but not other ones


I totally agree, that was why I posed the question, I personally don't agree with crossbreeding of any sort; that is just my own opinion. I have noticed though that some crossbreeds are more accepted specially on here.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I was trying to make the point that there are pedigrees with a purpose but they don't always fulfill that purpose. I think the reasons the Labradoodle made a good gundog was that it had the soft mouth of the lab. The aricle made the point that some labs won't go into thick undergrowth to retrieve so its not always a certainty that the breed will live up to its rep.
> 
> Our Labradoodle will go straight into any bush, long grass, patch of stingers and bring you a rabbit.....
> 
> ... she will then proceed to eat it.... is that the lab or the poodle


That's just dog


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I was trying to make the point that there are pedigrees with a purpose but they don't always fulfill that purpose. I think the reasons the Labradoodle made a good gundog was that it had the soft mouth of the lab. The aricle made the point that some labs won't go into thick undergrowth to retrieve so its not always a certainty that the breed will live up to its rep.
> 
> Our Labradoodle will go straight into any bush, long grass, patch of stingers and bring you a rabbit.....
> 
> ... she will then proceed to eat it.... is that the lab or the poodle


Lol it's the poodle for shaw i've got a lab, but yes i did get what you were saying.


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

I think crossing poodles with some other breeds is great for those who usually have allergies and for their own reasons can not have large dogs. a friend of mine has a lhasapoo (yes i think the breed has one of the silliest names ever). She is allergic to most dogs and her home is not big enough for a large dog so there is a good reason for the small crosses. All dogs have a purpose to those who love them and care for them!


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## Buggles (Jul 14, 2009)

I can understand (although I don't agree) with breeding breeds such as chinese cresteds as they aren't very popular but breeds such as border collies, labaradors etc where there are hundreds of thousands of them out there, shouldn't be bred


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Buggles said:


> My question is (and this is not me having a go at anybody, I am just genuinely curious).
> 
> Why do you breed when there are THOUSANDS of homeless hamsters/rabbits/cats/dogs etc out there. Do you ever think that by you breeding, you could well be adding to these numbers?


I feel no need to defend myself as a breeder but would ask you -why are there 1000s of pets in rescue ? Simple answer is because someone put them in there! Some for genuine reasons of hardship or change of circumstance that makes it impossible for them to keep their pet.

However, for every one of those people I am willing to bet there are another two that just got fed up with the responsibility/want to go on holiday but don't want to pay boarding fees/having a baby etc etc. What about those people! In this throw away society its all to easy for people to shirk their responsibilities at a drop of a hat. If you purchase/adopt another living being you agree to take care of that being for the rest of its life to the best of your ability, not just until you decide you've made a mistake because you didn't give it enough thought to begin with. People should start taking responsibility and not abusing rescues that are there for those genuinely in need.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> labaradors etc where there are hundreds of thousands of them out there, shouldn't be bred


The problem is that all these hundreds of thousands of them out there are generally bred by byb, puppy farms and pet breeders. They are not quality bred dogs, some hardly look like labs, and temperament leaves a lot to be desired. They have no working ability and are a terrible legacy to the breed.

There will always be buyers for well bred labradors (or any breed come to that) because quality breeders do not overbreed. If good breeders stopped breeding, you would end up with a gene pool which would be the ruination of the breed.


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

I think that any animal should only be bred from if they have good health results, good temperment and if you have homes lined up. Obviously peoples circumstances change and someone who has been on your waiting list for over a year could suddenly find themselves unable to have the dog/cat/rabbit etc.

No matter what people think about cross breeding it will continue and as long as the breeders are as clued up as Colsy appears to be then it is not that bad. It is people that do it for a quick buck that I have the problem with.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

ellie8024 said:


> I think crossing poodles with some other breeds is great for those who usually have allergies and for their own reasons can not have large dogs.


The - oodle crosses are not necessarily non shedding nor non allergic, it all depends on the mix and whether the poodle type coat is inherited.


> _Meet a dozen labradoodles and you will find a wide variation of coat types. Even within the same litter, the coat type may vary, especially as the dog passes adolescence. Many UK Labradoodles have wavy coats with quite coarse hairs and the appearance of a flat-coated retriever. Others have the much tighter, softer curls from their poodle lineage. Still others will have a mixed coat with a dry wiry hair growing through soft poodle down._


from the 
Labradoodle Association of the UK - Frequently Asked Questions


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Saikou said:


> However, for every one of those people I am willing to bet there are another two that just got fed up with the responsibility/want to go on holiday but don't want to pay boarding fees/having a baby etc etc. *What about those people! In this throw away society its all to easy for people to shirk their responsibilities at a drop of a hat. * If you purchase/adopt another living being you agree to take care of that being for the rest of its life to the best of your ability, not just until you decide you've made a mistake because you didn't give it enough thought to begin with. People should start taking responsibility and not abusing rescues that are there for those genuinely in need.


I definitely agree


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

I think if you want a dog that you know doesn't shed get a poodle or another breed that doesn't shed. People say they don't like the look poodles but how do you know a 'doodle' won't grow up to look like a poodle? I've saw a few doodles that look more poodle than anything else! I think alot of people get them for the fancy name.. Unless you aren't bothered about what it looks like when it grows up it's better to look elsewhere for a breed you know doesn't shed instead of taking a risk because if your allergic to it and the breeder won't take it back it could end up in a rescue then the problem starts again with more dogs in rescue through no fault of their own.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

I think you will find all good doodle breeders will actually know they cannot guarantee a non shedding dog,also allegies can come from elsewhere skin,saliva
etc.
Would would never sell mine advertising allergy free or non shedding that would be so wrong.
I would not bother with that doodle forum either too many cooks on there!
Rather seek my advise from other sources.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

It has to be noted that no dog is hypoallergenic or 'doesn't shed'. All dogs give off a certain amount of dander which is what people are allergic to.

There is no such thing as a non shedding dog  And with the crosses you're never sure which coat they are going to inherit.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

sequeena said:


> It has to be noted that no dog is hypoallergenic or 'doesn't shed'. All dogs give off a certain amount of dander which is what people are allergic to.
> 
> There is no such thing as a non shedding dog  And with the crosses you're never sure which coat they are going to inherit.


Thats why i would never advertise this.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2009)

My baldies are non shedding mwahahahaaaa


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DevilDogz said:


> My baldies are non shedding mwahahahaaaa


:lol::lol::lol:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> My baldies are non shedding mwahahahaaaa


PMSL obviously apart from a bald dog  but yours still have some hair don't they?


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2009)

sequeena said:


> PMSL obviously apart from a bald dog  but yours still have some hair don't they?


Yes they have a mane and a fringe, tail hair, and feet hair...But they still dont shed. :001_tt2:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Yes they have a mane and a fringe, tail hair, and feet hair...But they still dont shed. :001_tt2:


So their hair - or rather fur :laugh: never comes out then?


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2009)

sequeena said:


> So their hair - or rather fur :laugh: never comes out then?


Its not fur it is hair and more like horse hair than anything..and nope never comes out.  Unless i pulled it out :yikes:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Its not fur it is hair and more like horse hair than anything..and nope never comes out.  Unless i pulled it out :yikes:


Wow, that's really great


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

DevilDogz said:


> Its not fur it is hair and more like horse hair than anything..and nope never comes out.  Unless i pulled it out :yikes:


So do the Powder Puffs have the same coarse horse hair or are they softer?


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> So do the Powder Puffs have the same coarse horse hair or are they softer?


No the powderpuff have a normal double coat...abit like a lhaso-apso..But not quite as thick.


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## vickie1985 (Feb 18, 2009)

ok this is going to sound like a daft question now, but i dont know a great deal about dogs

i know there are pedigrees, and cross-breeds...

i remember been brought up with boxers. 
Years ago and i mean YEARRRSSS ago, would pedigrees have started with like a cross breed?
like to make a boxer they would have bread a whatever with a whatever?

does that make sense? lol


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> No the powderpuff have a normal double coat


Thanks very much.


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## Inca's Mum (Apr 9, 2009)

vickie1985 said:


> ok this is going to sound like a daft question now, but i dont know a great deal about dogs
> 
> i know there are pedigrees, and cross-breeds...
> 
> ...


I wonder about that sometimes but I really have no idea the answer :idea:


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## vickie1985 (Feb 18, 2009)

JessKeating said:


> I wonder about that sometimes but I really have no idea the answer :idea:


ah it did make sense then lol 
i also wonder if they did start as cross breeds what happened to the breeds that was crossed? are there any extinced dog species??


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

I would have thought most if not all dog's were crossed at some stage in their lives.
Maybe wrong ??


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

All breeds were started as crossbreeds the golden retriever was bred out of a tweed spaniel/flat coated retriever cross but they were then standardised and made into a breed. There are a lot of extinct dog breeds.
I'm getting kind of sick of the all breeders are evil and if you buy a puppy/kitten whatever from one you are killing rescues attitudes.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

In the beginning dogs were chosen for a purpose, usually a working purpose, but sometimes a companion, lap dog purpose.
Breeds evolved as certain traits were looked on as being better than others, so for instance if you lived in a very cold wet place, then the dogs with thin coats would have got ill and died and others with thicker more waterproof coats would have been chosen to breed from. If by chance those dogs had smaller ears then the small eared, thick coated waterproof dogs evolved.
If in another region the weather was very warm then the thick coated dogs were at a disadvantage and the thinner coated more shorthaired breeds were favoured. As it was more difficult to travel then the "breed" in a particular place used for a specific purpose all then tended to look very similar. 

As time went by as more and more uses were given to dogs then more and more "breeds" appeared until they ended up having breed names so if you wanted a dog to herd sheep then you looked for a collie type or one with huge jaws to bait bulls then you looked for a bull dog.

Originally none of those dogs would have had formal pedigrees but breeders wouldn't for instance wanted their bull dog to mate with a collie as that would probably have weakened their bull dog stock, if however they wanted some speed or agility perhaps injected to their line then mating to the collie may have been no bad thing.
However if your life depended on how good your dog was to earn a living for you then it would make no sense to cross breed as a bull dog/collie cross may end up useless at herding sheep. Far better to use two superb sheep handling dogs as it is more likely to inherit ability from both parents. 

Today, we are pampered, we choose dogs for their looks and not what they were specifically bred for. The current fashion for cross breeds is just an extension of people wanting something "different". Not satisfied with a "common" Spaniel or Poodle, and not able to afford exotic wonders which would need to be imported from far flung reaches of the world, they want a Spanollie or a Labradoodle or a Dollie or a mollywollydoodle all the day or some other "rare" interesting crossbreed.
Always quick to rush into any "market " opening up you always get those who are willing and eager to take advantage and supply that market.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

vickie1985 said:


> Years ago and i mean YEARRRSSS ago, would pedigrees have started with like a cross breed?
> like to make a boxer they would have bread a whatever with a whatever?


The Boxer originated from the Brabanter, a smaller version of a German hunting breed called the Bullenbeiser, crossed with an English Bulldog in the late 19th century.

The Dobermann is another example of a 'made' breed, created by Louis Dobermann - a tax collector - from crosses with various breeds to create a guard dog that would protect him on his rounds.

Some breeds evolve naturally... many sheepdogs and cattle dogs for instance, evolved their individual working types long before shows & breed standards existed. Others are 'made' by deliberate crossing.


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## MarisStella (May 14, 2009)

I've only just joined this post so I may be a little late with my answer, but Labradoodles were bred (and Goldendoodles too, but not as popular) because they are good dogs for people with allergies; Labradoodles do not shed the same way as most other dogs, and therefore people who couldn't previously get a dog because of allergies can get a Labradoodle.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

Excellent post - Lauren001

I think people assume that all breeds started as crossbreeds but it wasn't like that. Yes, they may have been crossed at some point to bring in a certain trait which was desirable for them doing the job they had even better, but it cannot be compared to the cross breeding that is happening today in the pet market.



> I've only just joined this post so I may be a little late with my answer, but Labradoodles were bred (and Goldendoodles too, but not as popular) because they are good dogs for people with allergies; Labradoodles do not shed the same way as most other dogs, and therefore people who couldn't previously get a dog because of allergies can get a Labradoodle


No, it was an experiment to try to get a non shedding guide dog, but the original breeder abandoned it as being to inconsistent.

I have nothing against crossbreeds - I have had one - but I agree with Lauren001 it is the current trend to want something 'different' that has caused the explosion in breeding a huge variety of crosses in the commercial pet world.

There are very good reasons for crossing. The most successful cross for GDBA is not the labradoodle but the Lab/golden cross. This was and is a real success, but you don't seem them as a popular pet, or given a fancy name and it is also interesting to note that they only use first crosses. They have over they years tried developing them further, but found they lost all the benefits when they bred further generations.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I want to breed towards an aim, the aim is to compete/work with my dogs and to build up a nice line of Labradors, that have ability and good looks, I don't know if I'll ever get there but I will give it a go. There were over 50,000 kc registered Lab pups last year, and you can bet the number is a helluva lot more if you take into account all the puppy farmers and back yard breeders who don't register. Would it make it any better if I enjoyed a breed that had less numbers? Personally I don't think it matters, there will always be irresponsible breeders and irresponsible owners, and they are the ones that keep the rescues full.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

As a novice Birman cat breeder (who also owns a moggy) I think there is room in this world for both - breeders and rescue. Having said that rescue won't let me have cats as hubby is in the forces and apparently 'all forces families abondon their animals when they move'  Yeah, right! And so if I only had rescue to choose from would never be able to own a pet. I was 'forced' to buy my moggie as rescue wouldn't touch us - they are part of the problem sometimes as there is no reason why i couldn't have a rescue cat and so I am forced to go elsewhere - i won't abandon my animals when I move (which I am doing tomorrow and they are definately coming with us)

We started off looking at pedigree cats as hubby seemed to be allergic to every single long haired moggy he encountered, and a chance encounter with a Birman helped us realsie he wasn't allergic to them. Hence I own and breed a pedigree - it helps others too - I want to share the joy this lovely breed has brought. Once upon a time I thought exactly the same as the OP, having had a pedigree now I would never NOT have one, but I would never NOT have a moggy either. 

Also, when we are older and in a more stable situation we want a border collie (a proper one with health checks, full pedigree, the colour we want and long fur) - it is unlikely we shall get want we want from a rescue (if they would have us) and I don't want a mix etc (too unreliable in temperament) and don't like the 'look' of a lot of rescue dogs. Personally I don't like the staffie look (I know a lot do and that's brilliant, but not for me), and I want a dog that is bred with a soft mouth. All these reasons mean I will go for a breeder not a rescue dog. 

I think everyone is entitled to choose where they get their cats/dogs/ rabbits etc from and that's the joy of living in the free world.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Buggles said:


> Thats another question I meant to ask and forgot. Why are people purposely breeding cross breeds for? and then giving them stupid names lol (chorkies etc)


Going off topic a little, sorry, and dont want anyone to start a heated debate, but ive often wondered what the reputable,passionate about their certain breed, breeders think about people who actually do cross certain breeds purposly. like springers and cockers,labs and poodles etc.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Saikou said:


> I feel no need to defend myself as a breeder but would ask you -why are there 1000s of pets in rescue ? Simple answer is because someone put them in there! Some for genuine reasons of hardship or change of circumstance that makes it impossible for them to keep their pet.
> 
> However, for every one of those people I am willing to bet there are another two that just got fed up with the responsibility/want to go on holiday but don't want to pay boarding fees/having a baby etc etc. What about those people! In this throw away society its all to easy for people to shirk their responsibilities at a drop of a hat. If you purchase/adopt another living being you agree to take care of that being for the rest of its life to the best of your ability, not just until you decide you've made a mistake because you didn't give it enough thought to begin with. People should start taking responsibility and not abusing rescues that are there for those genuinely in need.


Well said i was talking to someone from rescue in leeds and they took in a dog whose owner couldnt keep him because she wanted a new setee anoth one got a carpet and the dog hairs showed up too much so if she got another dog she would try and get one with hair nearer to her colour of carpet, stupid idiots like this add to the many dogs in rescue not breeders.


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> In the beginning dogs were chosen for a purpose, usually a working purpose, but sometimes a companion, lap dog purpose.
> Breeds evolved as certain traits were looked on as being better than others, so for instance if you lived in a very cold wet place, then the dogs with thin coats would have got ill and died and others with thicker more waterproof coats would have been chosen to breed from. If by chance those dogs had smaller ears then the small eared, thick coated waterproof dogs evolved.
> If in another region the weather was very warm then the thick coated dogs were at a disadvantage and the thinner coated more shorthaired breeds were favoured. As it was more difficult to travel then the "breed" in a particular place used for a specific purpose all then tended to look very similar.
> 
> ...


And then it all comes down to choice. I take pride in the fact that I am not a fashionable woman, I chose my dog after speaking to others who had doodles and lots of research. I have had lots of other kinds of dogs before that were never used for the purpose they were originally bred for (not many sheep on our housing estate for the German Shepherd!) so what is the difference getting a crossbreed for a pet which is not bred for a specific purpose?
It's my money and I'll do what I want with it. And before you say anything about that, no, she did not cost a huge amount, as I said, I am not fashionable - can't afford to be!

PS Mollywollydoodles sound fun - where can I get one of them???


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> Well said i was talking to someone from rescue in leeds and they took in a dog whose owner couldnt keep him because she wanted a new setee anoth one got a carpet and the dog hairs showed up too much so if she got another dog she would try and get one with hair nearer to her colour of carpet, stupid idiots like this add to the many dogs in rescue not breeders.


That is disgusting! With that kind of attitude it makes you worry for their kids!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Guinevere13 said:


> That is disgusting! With that kind of attitude it makes you worry for their kids!


I know its only when you talk to some of these rescue people that you realise what idiots are out there, and they obviously think theres nothing wrong with it or they would come up with a more understandable reason. . . it really is unbelievable.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Guinevere13 said:


> I take pride in the fact that I am not a fashionable woman, I chose my dog after speaking to others who had doodles and lots of research.


I think you are missing my point.
The "fashion" at present is to produce these dogs as "new breeds", had they been "out of fashion" then no matter how much research you would do, you probably wouldn't be able to get one easily. The fact they are around at all, in any great numbers and being much sought after by some, makes them "fashionable" whether you consider yourself a fashionable person or not.

If the fashion is for large earrings and I am wearing a huge pair that makes me in fashion and fashionable as regards earrings, whether I like it or not.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Buggles said:


> I'm putting this in general chat as it relates to all animals and there isn't anywhere else it can go.
> 
> There seem to be a LOT of people on here who breed animals. Be it hamsters, rabbits, cats, dogs etc.
> 
> ...


I will answer this with my experience. I have bred/shown dogs for over 25years. I breed for myself first and foremost, I always keep a pup or 2, never have I bred just to sell pups. Not one of the pups I bred ended up in a Rescue. How do I know?? Well I always had updates from owners, if I had not had a phonecall for ages I visited unannounced. I have taken a pup from 1 owner in 25years and that is because she pulled the wool over my eyes.
Go look at ManyTears Rescue Site. I know they do a great job BUT it angers me that they can take in ex breeding bitches/ dogs that they know are from Puppyfarmers. The state these poor creatures are in is appauling but funny I have never known any of these Puppyfarmers being closed down with facts from Manytears. If a normal breeder gave in dogs/bitches in such a state to a rescue I am bloomin sure they would be prosecuted. IMO By taking these poor dogs their is an empty concrete no window cell awaiting a younger version to start over again

If you research you may find out of those thousands that are in rescue mainly they came from Puppyfarms, BYB and irresponsible Owners and Breeders.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> I think you are missing my point.
> The "fashion" at present is to produce these dogs as "new breeds", had they been "out of fashion" then no matter how much research you would do, you probably wouldn't be able to get one easily. The fact they are around at all, in any great numbers and being much sought after by some, makes them "fashionable" whether you consider yourself a fashionable person or not.
> 
> If the fashion is for large earrings and I am wearing a huge pair that makes me in fashion and fashionable as regards earrings, whether I like it or not.


Labradoodles aren't a new breed been going for 30 years plus.
We could say this about any breed becoming fashionable through the media and films.
I bought my dog's because i like them.
Why did you buy yours ?


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Clueless
Is puppy farming, looked on in perhaps the same way as farming as opposed to normal dog ownership?

I doubt if it would be seen to be OK for you as a pet owner to keep a dog in a small concrete pen, but because they probably meet the regulations for kennels, then there may be little that can be done legally.

The dogs are breeding stock as opposed to pets perhaps.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

why is this in the general

im trying stay away from breeding threads


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Labradoodles aren't a new breed been going for 30 years plus.


That is in fact a very new breed, Bulldogs were around in 1568, Labradors have the same timescale, Spaniels were thought to have come over here with the Romans, Poodles they think have been around since Egyptian times.

30 years.....


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> That is in fact a very new breed, Bulldogs were around in 1568, Labradors have the same timescale, Spaniels were thought to have come over here with the Romans, Poodles they think have been around since Egyptian times.
> 
> 30 years.....


We all started somewhere.....


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2009)

cav said:


> why is this in the general
> 
> im trying stay away from breeding threads


Big consipiracy to pull you back in  trying to catch you out!!


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## Buggles (Jul 14, 2009)

cav said:


> why is this in the general
> 
> im trying stay away from breeding threads


If you bothered to read the first paragraph, you would see why. If you are trying to stay away from breeding threads, then dont open one titled "Breeding"!!!!


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> Clueless
> Is puppy farming, looked on in perhaps the same way as farming as opposed to normal dog ownership?
> 
> I doubt if it would be seen to be OK for you as a pet owner to keep a dog in a small concrete pen, but because they probably meet the regulations for kennels, then there may be little that can be done legally.
> ...


Have you seen the state of some of these poor things. Obviously no Vet Treatment had been sought for problems they had eg eye sores, skin conditions. I still believe a Normal Pet Home Owner or Breeder would be prosecuted if dogs arrived at Rescue in that state so why do they not report them???


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Labradoodles aren't a new breed been going for 30 years plus.
> We could say this about any breed becoming fashionable through the media and films.
> I bought my dog's because i like them.
> Why did you buy yours ?


Colsy I am not wanting to start an arguement as I know how Doodle threads/posts can go downhill quickly But IMO They are not a Breed as such but a Type. After 30years they are still all different.
IMO They could have been a Breed if it had been taken seriously from the start but now there are too many jumping on the Doodle Wagon and they are wasting what could have been a nice dog imo
You are about to go down the route of Breeding and you are doing everything correctly in my eyes. How do you feel when you see really poor bred Doodles and How do you feel about breeding Poodles with whatever


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

clueless said:


> Colsy I am not wanting to start an arguement as I know how Doodle threads/posts can go downhill quickly But IMO They are not a Breed as such but a Type. After 30years they are still all different.
> IMO They could have been a Breed if it had been taken seriously from the start but now there are too many jumping on the Doodle Wagon and they are wasting what could have been a nice dog imo
> You are about to go down the route of Breeding and you are doing everything correctly in my eyes. How do you feel when you see really poor bred Doodles and How do you feel about breeding Poodles with whatever


Good we don't want to become a breed.
We just love our dog's at the end of the day.
I am going to MATE then, seeing i cannot use the word breed.
But i will still do all the health tests.
Don't like them don't buy them is my saying.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Dont think anyone is saying they dont like them i certainly wouldnt, we have one near to us he is gorgeous such a lively character, think people mean they dont like the idea of crossing the breeds i often wonder what the breeders of poodles and labs that have maybe strived for years to get the breed as it is or still trying to better the breed think about them being crossed. I dont really care either way unless the breeds are not coming to any harm its the people who are just buying them for the fashionable/latest dog to have reason, that i have a problem with.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Good we don't want to become a breed.
> We just love our dog's at the end of the day.
> I am going to MATE then, seeing i cannot use the word breed.
> But i will still do all the health tests.
> Don't like them don't buy them is my saying.


As I already said I know you are doing everything correctly so I am not getting at you. (I feel from your reply that you think I may be) I was just interested to know really what you felt about all the poor bred( oops okay in your words mated)Doodles out there. 
You are going to become a Breeder and was just wanting your thoughts from that side not on buying them but okay I will leave it

ps I did say some have wasted what could have been a nice breed


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## ally (Feb 5, 2009)

Why has Clueless always to be so derogatory about doodles? On every thread, at every oppotunity they put their claws in. Don't you think you are just nitpicking anout doodles being a "type not a breed"? Ok, the doodles have only been around 30 years, compared to lots of breeds but at least they haven't been messed around with like the Bulldogs, the Staffies, etc. etc. to the detriment of the dogs health and the breed. The beauty of the doodle is the fact that they differ to a degree. It seems that certain people come on here to nitch about doodles, but how many doodle owners slag off other breeds???? I think it's just sad that people are so bigotted.:cursing:


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2009)

People are allowed there own views on EVERY and ANY breed weather is a pure bred or a cross breed..We are not all the same and will not all like the same breed...Hence theres so many breeds out there that people can choose from..

and as it goes i havent seen her slate the breed.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

clueless said:


> As I already said I know you are doing everything correctly so I am not getting at you. (I feel from your reply that you think I may be) I was just interested to know really what you felt about all the poor bred( oops okay in your words mated)Doodles out there.
> You are going to become a Breeder and was just wanting your thoughts from that side not on buying them but okay I will leave it
> 
> ps I did say some have wasted what could have been a nice breed


There is good and bad breeders out there.
As long as things are done correctly, be it pedigree dogs,crossbreeds or mutts.
All happy customers


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

ally said:


> Why has Clueless always to be so derogatory about doodles? On every thread, at every oppotunity they put their claws in. Don't you think you are just nitpicking anout doodles being a "type not a breed"? Ok, the doodles have only been around 30 years, compared to lots of breeds but at least they haven't been messed around with like the Bulldogs, the Staffies, etc. etc. to the detriment of the dogs health and the breed. The beauty of the doodle is the fact that they differ to a degree. It seems that certain people come on here to nitch about doodles, but how many doodle owners slag off other breeds???? I think it's just sad that people are so bigotted.:cursing:


If that is your opinion of me well then I should really respect it LOL. You really do not know me so does your opinions annoy me Do they Hell lol. It was not that long ago I was concerned about a Breeder that was trying to get Shot of some Labradoodles. The conditions they were kept in looked horrendous I was posting and posting trying to get Labradoodle people involved BUT Hey Ho I hate them REALLY !!!!
Could you please point out every thread I have put my claws into Thanks Much Appreciated


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

ally said:


> Why has Clueless always to be so derogatory about doodles? On every thread, at every oppotunity they put their claws in. Don't you think you are just nitpicking anout doodles being a "type not a breed"? Ok, the doodles have only been around 30 years, compared to lots of breeds but at least they haven't been messed around with like the Bulldogs, the Staffies, etc. etc. to the detriment of the dogs health and the breed. The beauty of the doodle is the fact that they differ to a degree. It seems that certain people come on here to nitch about doodles, but how many doodle owners slag off other breeds???? I think it's just sad that people are so bigotted.:cursing:


I don't think Clueless is being derogratry of the breed. I just think she is concerned about people are churning out these new "designer" dogs as money making machines.

I think most of the people on here love labradoodle/goldendoodles, i know i do. However what annoys us is how this whole sort of thing has now come into fashion. Crossing dogs and giving them a name like they are an actual breeds, like shuggles and jugs. People are now crossing these "Designer breeds" to most likely make a few bucks as people see them as these new and fascinating breeds when in fact they are only crossbreeds.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Colsy said:


> There is good and bad breeders out there.
> As long as things are done correctly, be it pedigree dogs,crossbreeds or mutts.
> All happy customers


Thank you thats all I was looking for your opinion on something I was wondering


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Patterdale_lover said:


> I don't think Clueless is being derogratry of the breed.
> I think most of the people on here love labradoodle/goldendoodles, i know i do. However what annoys us is how this whole sort of thing has now come into fashion. Crossing dogs and giving them a name like they are an actual breeds, like shuggles and jugs. People are now crossing these "Designer breeds" to most likely make a few bucks as people see them as these new and fascinating breeds when in fact they are only crossbreeds.


Thank you I like your opinion of me better LOL Funny I could say Why does Ally always just appear when its about Labradoodles Mmmmmm


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2009)

ally said:


> but at least they haven't been messed around with like the Bulldogs, the Staffies, etc. etc. to the detriment of the dogs health and the breed.


Perhaps you could elaborate on this please and the health of Staffords ?
Am interested as I have owned the breed for 20 years,thanks


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2009)

clueless said:


> Thank you I like your opinion of me better LOL Funny I could say Why does Ally always just appear when its about Labradoodles Mmmmmm


you know we all loves ya!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Clueless said:


> IMO They could have been a Breed if it had been taken seriously from the start but now there are too many jumping on the Doodle Wagon and they are wasting what could have been a nice dog imo


I agree, too many are still F1's to be taken seriously. After 30 years of proper breeding we would be in 15+ gens and so there might be some uniformity appearing and the start of a proper breed, as things stand it is a free for all.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Ally I was also concerned about this little one http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/54592-what-do-you-think-6.html Funny that its a Labradoodle Jeez someone slap me I should have been slating it not concerned about it

ps It would have been nice if you could have gave us all an update on the little thing But obviously not as concerned as I seemed to have been Just my opinion of course

Mods Shut this Thread before Members get slated for being Doodle Haters


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> I agree, too many are still F1's to be taken seriously. After 30 years of proper breeding we would be in 15+ gens and so there might be some uniformity appearing and the start of a proper breed, as things stand it is a free for all.


Oh Lauren Please do not agree with me LOL You will be jumped on for being a Doodle destroyer


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## toddy (Jan 24, 2009)

People who breed should only do so to help to improve the breed they choose to and to produce the best quality of that particular animal.
Sadly too many people just throw and two animals together without much thought into the quality of the animals they are using and without much research into the particular breed requirements.
If all good concientious breeders gave up that would just leave the cowboys and sadly then all good quality examples of all species would just die out and that would be very sad.
Also as has been said the responsible breeders usually have a clause to say any animal purchased from them can go back to them should there be a change in circumstance.
I actually breed chinchillas and have done for 16 years but I also take in a lot of rescues aswell as I feel if I add to the problem then I should do my bit to alleviate it.
If more breeders did this as well then there would surely be a decrease in the amount of animals in rescues.

I do have a problem with people breeding animals where there is a known poor market for.Things such as fancy mice are all very sweet but with mums having large litters and male mice virtually impossible to rehome why is it so many people still insist on breeding so many.Again I can understand not wanting to lose the breed itself but you do have to be a little sensible.

Unfortunately it is responsible breeders that usually do feel guilty and stop breeding rather than add to the animal mountain and that just leave the bad ones out there who have no morals or cares to what they are breeding or where they end up.


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## Shelley Cat Lover (Jan 23, 2009)

Personally, I think letting some people breed indiscriminately is the bigger problem... people having kids they cant control, don't care for and dont teach respect = more people who cant responsibly give an animal a home for life (let alone the kids that they in turn have!)

End of rant


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## ally (Feb 5, 2009)

Firstly, Lauren, you have IMO missed the point about doodles; keeping the f1's the most popular means slightly more control of the breed.

I personally agree that jugs and shuggles are taking the designer dog thing a bit far; doodles were/are bred for a purpose not just an experiment.

Clueless, I know you tried to help those poor doodles living in squalour, but if you look back on most threads about doodles, your comments are always out there. To the person asking why I only go on doodle threads, look backl on my posting history - many of them are not to do with doodles so get your facts right. The person saying it is all about choices and freedom of opinions is right and that is why doodle owners are defensive because like certain people on here and many other forums, our favourite breed gets slated. As for Staffies etc, you only have to look at how the KC/ breeders have changed the breed standard and causing in many cases, suffering to the dogs...don't get me wrong I love Staffies, but it saddens me to see some breeds suffering health issues due to human vanity!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Well I don't think Clueless was slating Doodles she just asked an opinion from a Doodle person on Bad Doodle breeders, just like we all have opinions on bad breeders of our favorite breeds. There are terrible Dachound breeders were I live (general area anyway) and I can tell when I meet a dog or pup if its from this BYB or if its from someone who knows what there doing. This ladies (Iuse that phrase loosely) her dogs are aggressive and hardly look healthy. I love Shelties and Collies and it bugs me to see badly bred shelties that look more like a pom. I like poms too just not Shelties that look like them...Jill


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2009)

ally said:


> As for Staffies etc, you only have to look at how the KC/ breeders have changed the breed standard and causing in many cases, suffering to the dogs...don't get me wrong I love Staffies, but it saddens me to see some breeds suffering health issues due to human vanity!


What issue's ?Please explain,

Please since you seem to know alot also explain what has changed regarding the standard to cause the health issues ?
The one's I am aware of having nothing whatsoever to do with the breed standard,unless of course you know differently.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

ally said:


> I personally agree that jugs and shuggles are taking the designer dog thing a bit far; doodles were/are bred for a purpose not just an experiment.
> 
> Clueless, I know you tried to help those poor doodles living in squalour, but if you look back on most threads about doodles, your comments are always out there.


Doodles imo are not being bred for a purpose. They bred in the beginning as a purpose and that failed. 
Comments are comments, unfortunately imo again as soon as the word Labradoodle is mentioned on here the Bus load arrives with the attitude that your breed is being slated.
As stated before please read "Its a shame that some breeders of Labradoodles are just breeding for the sake of it as they have wasted imo what would have been a nice breed of dog"

I commented on this thread about type because as they are all different then they are a type. Truth hurts!!!! I never made it up to annoy ya.

I know you are defensive when it comes to your Doodles, much the same as I am with my Breed. So Can I ask you How would you feel if someone mated a Doodle you had bred with say emmm a Chi


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> What issue's ?Please explain,
> 
> Please since you seem to know alot also explain what has changed regarding the standard to cause the health issues ?
> The one's I am aware of having nothing whatsoever to do with the breed standard,unless of course you know differently.


Haha Its a Pedigree dog so its wasted ain't it LOL


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

clueless said:


> Doodles imo are not being bred for a purpose. They bred in the beginning as a purpose and that failed.
> Comments are comments, unfortunately imo again as soon as the word Labradoodle is mentioned on here the Bus load arrives with the attitude that your breed is being slated.
> As stated before please read "Its a shame that some breeders of Labradoodles are just breeding for the sake of it as they have wasted imo what would have been a nice breed of dog"
> 
> ...


Good point. . . . .. . . . .


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Just a little note do any of us doodle folk slate your breeds or types of dog's.
I for one never have and will not.
We all like our dogs thats why we bought or rescued them.
But its true its always back to doodles on this forum why ????


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Colsy said:


> Just a little note do any of us doodle folk slate your breeds or types of dog's.
> I for one never have and will not.
> We all like our dogs thats why we bought or rescued them.
> But its true its always back to doodles on this forum why ????


No-one has slated a doodle as far as I'm aware but I'm amiss to why threads always end up being about doodles when they started off completely different


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

sequeena said:


> No-one has slated a doodle as far as I'm aware but I'm amiss to why threads always end up being about doodles when they started off completely different


Do we know who on this thread bought up doodles ?


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I dont think you can take it that its just doodles it causes a stir and a lot of interest on any of the "designer" dogs i personally hate the springer and cocker mix, not the dog but the idea, i love the ess and the cocker cant see why they need to be crossed, pointless.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Just a little note do any of us doodle folk slate your breeds or types of dog's.
> I for one never have and will not.
> We all like our dogs thats why we bought or rescued them.
> But its true its always back to doodles on this forum why ????


Have I ever slated your dog???
I have slated some of the breeding practices which imo is totally different. I also (as you put )slate Pedigree Breeding Practices
Doodle owmers seem to me to have a sort of chip on their shoulder and I am sorry about that But it is not my fault LOL
Ally joined here with a negative attitude to start with
"Hello, my name is Ally and I have a 2 year old chocolate f1 Labradoodle (shall I duck now from the insults?)" IMO Looking for trouble I did answer that Thread but Hey Ho Opinions do not always mean someone is slating

I have read quite a few Doodle Owner Posts slating KC I have KC Registered Breeds so they are your opinion. Are you slating my breed indirectly, YES probably but do I always mention it Nope Water of a Ducks Back LOL


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Do we know who on this thread bought up doodles ?


I believe it was the OP, he/she was maybe just extending their original question??


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Home fry or oven chip ?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

> Thats another question I meant to ask and forgot. Why are people purposely breeding cross breeds for? and then giving them stupid names lol (chorkies etc)


3rd page, buggles made the comment 
It's just an extension to the original question I think.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Home fry or oven chip ?


Home Fries win all the time although just my opinion I am in no way slating Oven by the way LOL


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

ally said:


> Firstly, Lauren, you have IMO missed the point about doodles; keeping the f1's the most popular means slightly more control of the breed.


It does?
So anyone with a labrador and a poodle can breed then together to produce F1's and that is some sort of control???


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> It does?
> So anyone with a labrador and a poodle can breed then together to produce F1's and that is some sort of control???


I was thinking the same


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## Shelley Cat Lover (Jan 23, 2009)

Maybe we should all consider that our much loved and well known pedigree cats/dogs/other critters came about as the result of people breeding selected animals with other selected animals to achieve the traits they desired in their pets/working animals.

Some animals may carry certain features due to the area they came from but any pedigree of anything is the way it is because a person, somewhere, at a point in history, decided they wanted to breed animals of that type.

Each to their own as long as it's responsibly done and the animals in question are healthy and loved 

Who knows maybe in a centuries time we'll see some of the newer breeds being the more popular and recognised?


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Thats what i have been trying to say all along.
No matter what TYPE of dog we breed it should be done correctly,health testing etc.


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

Yes it does clearly say both but I take the policy of ignoring the doodle brigade when they start arguing. To be fair Colsy I totally agree with you as I posted on the other thread.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2009)

Colsy said:


> Thats what i have been trying to say all along.
> No matter what TYPE of dog we breed it should be done correctly,health testing etc.


Thats is what i have said the whole time..all i did was say you never know what you will get and i have become the worlds biggest doodle hater!


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