# SO true!! Stop groping my dog!!



## Guest (Jul 26, 2013)

My dogs are ridiculously tolerant, but it still bugs me how inconsiderate some people can be and the liberties they take!

Dogs Are Not Public Property | Dogster


> Picture this - it's a lovely day, and you are relaxing at a local park, having a picnic with your family. A well-dressed lady you've never met before with a large smile on her face exits her car. She automatically lays eyes on your family and begins staring. Slowly, she moves toward you, speaking gibberish and making baby talk, googly eyes, and grabby hands. She begins touching your children, grabbing their cheeks. She grabs one by the face, moves her face to within inches of baby Tommy's, staring directly into his eyes and smiling. She grabs your husband by the ears, sits on his lap, and firmly plants her lips on his mouth. She gives you a little squeeze on the rump, hugs you tightly, and scratches your 8 year old's head. Nearby stands your 3 year old nephew, she quickly grabs his shoulders firmly and begins applying downward pressure, while saying, "SIT! SIT! SIT!"
> What if she then spied your lovely new Coach purse on the picnic blanket and decided to throw it over her shoulder, cavalierly? "Oh, I really like this purse!" She then removed your keys, approached your car, and drove off with your credit cards.
> 
> OK, at what point during these events did you call the police? If anyone did this to you or your family, you would think they were socially defunct and may need to be removed from polite society. Would you, at any point in this interaction, have acted "aggressively" by telling her to go away? Would you have left the park? What would you have done if you asked her to go away and she continued to harass your family?
> ...


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Amen to that.


----------



## finleyjon (Jul 1, 2012)

Oh God, yes. Before having Darwin, I was used to people grabbing their kids and crossing the road to avoid Finley. With Darwin, however, we get mobbed. One woman even ran across Tesco's car park to stroke him 

I hate it!


----------



## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

I can spot them a mile off these days and am becoming skilled in evasive manoeuvres


----------



## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

My big GSD loves to be cuddled and stroked, my small fuzzy terrier does not... guess which one is molested daily on walks 

Great article!


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Def true! Ive given up trying to tell people that they can stroke this one but not that one (coz they always go for the littlest ones, who are the most scared!). Nowadays I just say 'one of them bites', then refuse to tell people which one!
Although I did let Adam and Hannah say hello to a little girl the other day coz I was so impressed with her doggy skills! She was probably only about 4 or 5 but she crouched down and put her hand out and waited for the dogs to come to her. Mum just walked off oblivious, but what a nice little girl!


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

What a strange article. 

The author needed to use words like these to give it the impact she was looking for: "molesting," "an every day way-of-life for many dogs," "serial dog gropers," "not entitled to force yourself upon them," "assaulted by community members without recourse," "someone pushes down on your rear, causing intense pain?"

A really divisive article infact, for dog owners and non dog owners alike.


----------



## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

Brilliant..:thumbsup:

and true .. Benny really dislikes being touched by strangers but because hes a cute beagle kids come running over screaming Doggyyyy and try to grab him ..
If I say no, pull him away, or block their attempts IM the one being antisocial!


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Great article, and so true.

Usually it's kids who come up to us, thinking they have the right to stroke the "cute doggies". I just tell them/their parents that my dogs aren't used to kids (it's true - they're not) and they do actually seem to stop.

TBF, the dogs (certainly Milly) would probably handle it OKish, but that doesn't mean _I_ want perfect strangers stroking or petting my dogs, because they're most likely on the lead, and that means the person doing the stroking is either in my personal space, or somewhere around my knees at the dogs' level, meaning I tower over them - neither of which _I'm _very comfortable with.


----------



## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

We had this the other weekend with Matilda in London. Minding our own business in Greenwich park, next thing, a child of about 6-7 launches over for a full on cuddle. We're fortunate that Matilda loves most all attention, because you just know that if she had growled the parents would have deemed her aggressive. Not only that, the boy then started taking photos on his phone which seemed incredibly ill-mannered.

I _hate_ people invading my space, and find large crowds difficult to the extent I won't deal with them. Likewise, my dog should not be expected to have her space invaded by (albeit well-meaning) strangers.

I don't mind when people _ask_, and then I can explain the best way to touch her. For instance, at the RSPCA fun day a toddler approached, his Dad stopped, made him ask first, and we got Matilda to sit whilst his Dad explained how to stroke a dog ... MUCH better than the first sort of incident and is usually beneficial to all.


----------



## Guest (Jul 27, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> What a strange article.
> 
> The author needed to use words like these to give it the impact she was looking for: "molesting," "an every day way-of-life for many dogs," "serial dog gropers," "not entitled to force yourself upon them," "assaulted by community members without recourse," "someone pushes down on your rear, causing intense pain?"
> 
> A really divisive article infact, for dog owners and non dog owners alike.


But it's true!
I've had people do all sorts of really weird things to my dogs, and take liberties that boggle the mind. Truly as if my dogs are public property. They're not!

I've had parents try to put their baby on my dane's back - totally without asking.
One guy walked up to my female dane and with no warning, went straight to her muzzle, lifted her lips, and started examining her teeth like a show judge! It was seriously the oddest thing!
We'll be at an outdoor restaurant, dogs under the table, and people walking by on the street will interrupt our meal (and the dogs' nap) to pet them, for no other reason than they "just love dogs".

And then if you do kindly give permission to pet, all of a sudden you have them doing things like telling your dog to sit and shake. And when the dog doesn't, some indeed do push on the dog's rear or grab a front paw.

I don't see what's controversial about asking that our dogs be respected. 

Unless it's a therapy visit, my dogs are not out in public for the public's enjoyment. They're out for THEM, because they enjoy spending time with us, because like any intelligent, sentient creature, they enjoy the stimulation. We have put a lot of work in to out dogs being unobtrusive and well behaved, my dogs don't take liberties with other dogs or humans they might find interesting, I don't think it's too much to ask that people act similarly well behaved.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

True? Really? The author really is scraping the barrel with this gem of an article.

She starts off with a ludicrous analogy and then, as I said earlier, she chucks in astonishing over exaggerations like "groping," "molesting," "causing intense pain," and "being assaulted by community members without recourse."

A thoroughly lazy piece of writing with no foundation in what _actually _happens day to day.


----------



## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> True? Really? The author really is scraping the barrel with this gem of an article.
> 
> She starts off with a ludicrous analogy and then, as I said earlier, she chucks in astonishing over exaggerations like "groping," "molesting," "causing intense pain," and "being assaulted by community members without recourse."
> 
> A thoroughly lazy piece of writing with no foundation in what _actually _happens day to day.


You must live in a really nice place to say this article has no foundation..

I thought I lived in a fairly nice place but Ive discovered you have to watch people carefully..
A friend was trying to train her dog when a man appeared and showed her how to make the dog do what she wanted ..he grabbed her pups ear and twisted until the dog screamed and sat down..
Not molested ..no or causing pain...no...

A child asked 'is it a girl or a boy'? and before I had a chance to answer grabbed Oscars tail and wrenched it upwards so that he could view my dogs genetalia..
Not groping of course ...no...

Im sorry to say but this is all too common, badly mannered people and their awful offspring who think they have the right to do as they please.


----------



## Guest (Jul 27, 2013)

I suppose it depends on how "out and about" you get with your dog...

If you walk in largely desolate areas and only meet one or two other dog walkers, the odd hikers, or farmer, then yeah, I suppose the article seems a bit OTT.

But many people live and walk their dogs in cities and more populated areas. They take their dogs to outdoor events or festivals. 

Or maybe you have a dog that's unusual in some way - like a giant breed, or an unusual breed, or you walk a lot of dogs or, or, or. 

For many of us, this behavior is very real, and it's nice to have a strongly worded article to share in our frustration.


----------



## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

Hmm when D was a pup I couldn't go anywhere without her being fussed and grabbed. 
Usually I am pretty tolerant. 
One wierdo approached her by turning his head to look behind him. "I must not look a dog in the eye"  then man handled her talking to her in a deep voice before pushing her down ceasar milan style.  So angry. 

I hate it when its children, grabbing ears or leads, chasing and pulling them it makes me so angry when their behaviour is ignored or seen as cute play when they are frightening or hurting my dog. Mine are always on a lead too it makes it difficult for me or them to walk away. 
I hate that this behaviour often means you have to appear rude or abrupt in order to remove yourself/your dog from the situation. 

Mine are used as therapy dogs and I don't have any of the problems above when they are helping me at work.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

ouesi said:


> I suppose it depends on how "out and about" you get with your dog...
> 
> If you walk in largely desolate areas and only meet one or two other dog walkers, the odd hikers, or farmer, then yeah, I suppose the article seems a bit OTT.
> 
> ...


Oh, purrrleeease.

Get over yerself.


----------



## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

It's difficult. We had to pop into Tescos today after taking Bess for a walk. It was too hot to stay in the car, so I walked her down to the entrance whilst OH went inside. 

Not one person acknowledged her. Although it was good training for her, I did feel slightly sorry for her. She loves people, and anyone could have stroked or cuddled her. But all walked by without glancing her way. 

Some dogs really love to be 'molested'.


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Hmm... I too think it is a little bit exaggerated. I don't mind when people in town or in the park try to pet our GSD weather they ask me or not, because I know that he doesn't really care. If it would bother me or the dog though, I would say something before the person even touches him. As everyone has stated - our dogs are our property so I don't see a problem to stand up and stop people from crossing the line. Ask people not to touch the dog/ stop touching the dog or simply walk away. Every dog owner draws his own line though. I will soon be getting a young puppy and plan to take him into town and everywhere right from the start so he would be "groped" by everyone and get used to it because he will be getting that a lot in the future.
I understand that some people may really not like it when people touch their dogs, but I really don't understand why some take it so badly even though their dogs seem to be enjoying it. I personally enjoy seeing people smile at my dog when they walk past us. If seeing and touching my dog will make someone's day just a little bit better (even if it is just those couple of minutes) I am more than happy for them to do that. I wouldn't let someone take my wallet, no, but I do give some homeless people change whenever I have some in my pocket. And if it's children I'm dealing with I always try and educate them about dogs and how to touch them in a "nice way"
Also, if you don't like people touching/ harassing/ playing with your dog because you think that stresses him out why would you take him to crowded places where he is bound to get at least a little bit of attention?


----------



## Sosha (Jan 11, 2013)

I find most people ask. I've intercepted the odd runaway but it's no big deal. I've had two bellend blokes who've chosen to completely ignore me, but apart from that - all good.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

shadowmare said:


> Hmm... I too think it is a little bit exaggerated. I don't mind when people in town or in the park try to pet our GSD weather they ask me or not, because I know that he doesn't really care. If it would bother me or the dog though, I would say something before the person even touches him. As everyone has stated - our dogs are our property so I don't see a problem to stand up and stop people from crossing the line. Ask people not to touch the dog/ stop touching the dog or simply walk away. Every dog owner draws his own line though. I will soon be getting a young puppy and plan to take him into town and everywhere right from the start so he would be "groped" by everyone and get used to it because he will be getting that a lot in the future.
> I understand that some people may really not like it when people touch their dogs, but I really don't understand why some take it so badly even though their dogs seem to be enjoying it. I personally enjoy seeing people smile at my dog when they walk past us. If seeing and touching my dog will make someone's day just a little bit better (even if it is just those couple of minutes) I am more than happy for them to do that. I wouldn't let someone take my wallet, no, but I do give some homeless people change whenever I have some in my pocket. And if it's children I'm dealing with I always try and educate them about dogs and how to touch them in a "nice way"
> Also, if you don't like people touching/ harassing/ playing with your dog because you think that stresses him out why would you take him to crowded places where he is bound to get at least a little bit of attention?


I couldn't agree more.

The image of someone waltzing down the high street with a Great Dane and not expecting to get attention made me giggle though. Funny. 

A really poor and divisive article. If _you _are in control of your dog, _you _are in control of any situation. Deal with it calmly...stop moaning.....move on.


----------



## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> The image of someone waltzing down the high street with a Great Dane and not expecting to get attention made me giggle though. Funny.
> 
> A really poor and divisive article. If _you _are in control of your dog, _you _are in control of any situation. Deal with it calmly...stop moaning.....move on.


I am in control of my dog unfortunately parents and child minders seem to be less in control of their charges my dog became nervous of children following and incident where we walk past a large group picnicking. My dog onlead we took a sweeping circular route only to be chased by screaming squealing children who surrounded my dog , ignoring every polite request to step away. to give my dog space every part of her was poked prodded pulled while I shouted to their guardians recall these children. I was clear their attentions were not welcome were in appropriate but the adults were chatting away not even looking. It took a bellow to get the adults to even look all the while i'm trying to body block the swarming blighters.

so yes my dog was under control but that wasn't sufficient to protect her from being terrified and inappropriately handled by feral children.

For those of you whose dogs love being petted that is wonderful but do the rest of us a favour and educate people about asking first and the appropriate way to pet a dog. Who knows one day a simple incident could change your dog's perception.


----------



## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Because I have a people reactive dog I control how close people get to my dogs. So I would have stopped the approach immediately. 
Just say NO!!!!!!!


----------



## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

I think how you feel about this often depends on your dog.

With my Rough Collie it was often a problem and often a joy in equal measure.

A joy when people asked to pet him or just stopped us to chat about him.

But we had others who just ran up when he wasn't expecting it making him jump. Or wrapping their arms around his neck in a massive hug.

My worst one though was a child in a pub garden who very nicely came and ask if she could stroke him, I said yes she started stroking him and then lay full length on top of him wrapping her arms around his neck :yikes:

I looked up at the parents for them to remove her, they smiled happily saying nothing they looked very offended when I said "that's enough get up".

We go caravanning and the times children ran up stroking him when he was asleep by the van were numerous. As he grew older we started hiding him behind a windbreak because it wasn't fair to have an elderly arthritic dog jumped on by several children. Especially when he was sleeping and couldn't hear them coming.

I know I should have explained why you shouldn't do that but to be honest I was so taken back I said nothing.


----------



## Guest (Jul 28, 2013)

shadowmare said:


> Hmm... I too think it is a little bit exaggerated. I don't mind when people in town or in the park try to pet our GSD weather they ask me or not, because I know that he doesn't really care.


But many dogs DO care, and it's common courtesy to ask.
As for it being exaggerated, again, I think it just depends on where you live. 
I'd say if you find the article exaggerated, consider yourself lucky 


shadowmare said:


> If it would bother me or the dog though, I would say something before the person even touches him. As everyone has stated - our dogs are our property so I don't see a problem to stand up and stop people from crossing the line. Ask people not to touch the dog/ stop touching the dog or simply walk away.


Great in theory, in practice, not so much. I've seen people bother service dogs with a vest on covered in "Service dog, please don't touch". 
Like I said, *I* don't mind, and my dogs are ridiculously tolerant, but people take inappropriate liberties. "Yes you can pet" does not mean you can bark in my dog's face, does not mean you can pull a front leg out from under him when he doesn't respond to "shake doggy, shake!", does not mean you can lift her lips and examine teeth, does not mean you can put your child or small dog on their back, etc. 


shadowmare said:


> Every dog owner draws his own line though. I will soon be getting a young puppy and plan to take him into town and everywhere right from the start so he would be "groped" by everyone and get used to it because he will be getting that a lot in the future.


I hope you understand that socialization is about lots of POSITIVE experiences with people, not just forcing your dog in to uncomfortable situations so they "get used to it."



shadowmare said:


> I understand that some people may really not like it when people touch their dogs, but I really don't understand why some take it so badly even though their dogs seem to be enjoying it.
> I personally enjoy seeing people smile at my dog when they walk past us. If seeing and touching my dog will make someone's day just a little bit better (even if it is just those couple of minutes) I am more than happy for them to do that.


I have NO problem with my dogs getting attention and fuss, and they do enjoy it. They're therapy dogs for crying out loud. That's not what this is about. 


shadowmare said:


> I wouldn't let someone take my wallet, no, but I do give some homeless people change whenever I have some in my pocket. And if it's children I'm dealing with I always try and educate them about dogs and how to touch them in a "nice way"


Right. That's kind of like the difference between me taking my dogs to therapy visits and educational programs versus someone assuming they can put their baby on my dog's back because I said "he's friendly, you can say hi." 


shadowmare said:


> Also, if you don't like people touching/ harassing/ playing with your dog because you think that stresses him out why would you take him to crowded places where he is bound to get at least a little bit of attention?


You're missing the point of the blog. It's not about "a little bit of attention. It's about people taking liberties because it's a dog, that they wouldn't take with any other property. It's the difference between a friendly "nice purse" as you're passing on the street, versus the same exchange only with the person grabbing and examining your purse. 
I really don't think it's too much to ask that folks have some common courtesy.



samuelsmiles said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> The image of someone waltzing down the high street with a Great Dane and not expecting to get attention made me giggle though. Funny.
> 
> A really poor and divisive article. If _you _are in control of your dog, _you _are in control of any situation. Deal with it calmly...stop moaning.....move on.


I don't expect not to get attention, especially with two great danes and often my friend with her rhodesian. 
And our dogs are very well controlled, and have the temperament and training to deal with odd people. But just because they *can* handle it, doesn't mean they should have to.
IDK... All I know to say to you, is, I invite you to spend an afternoon on an "outing" with us and see if you think it's okay how some people behave.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

OK. To all those who think we're exaggerating or being OTT. Here's a purely hypothetical situation:

You're out walking your dog/s minding your own business - dog's onlead, when a group of squealing, excited children run straight up to you. Your dog usually loves attention/fuss but for some reason, today, s/he's "not feeling it" - maybe s/he's a bit under the weather, maybe it's a hot day and the dog's temper's a bit frayed. You know your dog, see him/her tense and tell the children to stop their approach. They ignore you. You call to their parents - who also ignore you. 

So now you have an out-of-control group of kids throwing themselves all over your dog. Now you've socialised your dog to accept this level of - whatever you want to call it - and your dog's usually fine with being petted/stroked, but today s/he just air-snaps and growls ... or worse.

Still think we're exaggerating?

If it were a pack of offlead dogs approaching your nervous or fearful dog, there'd be uproar. Why is it any different with kids?


----------



## SarahBee (Jun 2, 2013)

Yesterday Lottie was having a bit of a rest in some shade by a bench (that I was sitting on with her on her lead) and a total stranger walked up and plonked her baby down in front of her, and then walked a few steps away to chat to a friend.

I was horrified. She didn't acknowledge me at all, didn't ask if Lottie was child friendly, and didn't even wait to check.

Fortunately Lottie was in a calm mood. I dread to think what would have happened if she'd jumped up. She's only just 12 weeks


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

*I have the right to say, "leave my dog alone," *

Well, in amongst the debris of that article here is the only sensible thing she wrote. Including a polite smile and a please would have been better....but....ach, the more you read it the more appalling it sounds.


----------



## Guest (Jul 28, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> *I have the right to say, "leave my dog alone," *
> 
> Well, in amongst the debris of that article here is the only sensible thing she wrote. Including a polite smile and a please would have been better....but....ach, the more you read it the more appalling it sounds.


Well, at least you did read it  Suppose it's better than complaining about an article you didn't read like sometimes happens on here :laugh:

Considering the number of likes the OP has, I'd consider myself very lucky if I were you - lucky that you have not experienced anything remotely like what the article describes.


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> The image of someone waltzing down the high street with a Great Dane and not expecting to get attention made me giggle though. Funny.
> 
> A really poor and divisive article. If _you _are in control of your dog, _you _are in control of any situation. Deal with it calmly...stop moaning.....move on.


In principle, I fully agree with you.

In practice, it REALLY ain't that straight forward. Which means that the article has merit.

I think your current viewpoint is governed by that it is often hard to fathom just what other people are capable of doing. And people can do the oddest, rudest and most inept, inappropriate things. Old people, young people, kids, pensioners, mums....you name it.

Examples:
1) my young pup ( a Bernese Mountain Dog) was on a Flexi leash, trotting ahead of me, when a group of young mums with kids in strollers and prams appeared. One of which, without saying a single word to me, picks up the puppy and wanted to hand it to her chums whilst saying "hey, I'd like of those dogs! Cool dog - you want to stroke him? Show him to ( whatever the other ones kid was called)"

Now, my pup was a social butterfly and adored people so he wasn't fazed by this impromtu pick-up by a stranger...but WTF does that??? By the time my jaw had closed again and my brain went from "action does not compute" into functioning mode, I went over, got my pup and said "I'm sure you have no problem with me taking one of your children out of their pram without asking"

2) I sit with my 2 Bernese and a friend at a table of an outside coffee shop. The dogs are on a leash and lying quietly beside me. I haven't seen my friend for a while and we are trying to catch up with one another. Except every 20 seconds our conversation is interrupted by a stranger. Either asking questions about the dogs, the breed, or by calling the dogs to them, or by asking whether their kids can stroke them, or, or, or.

It is exceptionally hard to stay friendly and gracious if you sat at said table for nearly an hour and haven't been able to complete and exchange a single sentence with your friend. I understand the interest, but a bit of perception and awareness from the other side doesn't go amiss. My dogs are not public exhibits. And it is neigh to impossible to teach a dog to lay calmy beside you if they are CONSTANTLY interfered with.

3) Man approaches with aprox. 3 year old son. My young dog, still in training, sits beside me in a Pub. Man does not acknowledge me with a single syllable. Just prompts his son to stroke my dog. Not a single question whether the dog is friendly, good with kids, never mind whether I am happy with the unsolicited approach by them.

I was so intrigued by this foolish ineptitude, I said nothing, because I wanted to see where he was going with this.

Kiddie, a bit hesitant, keeps jerking his arm forward, not quite brave enough to stroke the dog. So his hand stops short just in front of my dogs eyes. I knew my dog's character, so I knew he wouldn't snap. But I also knew that he was getting perturbed by this hand shooting towards his face.

Figuring the father was a moron, I asked child whether he would like to give my dog a treat. Kid takes no notice - clearly the apple didn't fall far from the tree - but continues to flick his arm at my dog.

At which time I asked the father to kindly call it a day and please leave my dog be. Verbatim reply "if the dog isn't good with kids why did you bring him in a public place?". My dog hadn't moved an inch during this time, he just sat calmy beside me, perhaps a tad confused by the ever approaching arm and hand.

I am unwilling to repeat my reply to the guy  but it contained "not an educational toy", " irresponsible nitwit" and "for your child's sake, next time ask. Not all dogs are as level tempered as this one"

Those were just 3 examples of a cornucopia of cretinous, rude or inappropriate interactions.

Luckily, the vast majority of people are lovely and parents sensible and polite enough to ask whether dog & owner are happy for their child to say "hello". I think that it will be a sad day if no one will ever try and solicit a quick snuggle with a puppy or want to stroke someones dog. Dogs are people magnets and this isn't a bad thing in itself.

But, as always, it isn't WHAT we do, but HOW we go about doing it which gets dog owners hackles up. If you are respectful, tactful and sensitive, I will respond respectful, tactful and sensitive. Given my dogs particular disposition and the particular situation, I will do my best to politely explain why it either isn't a good idea, or why this isn't the best time... or just happily accept on behalf of my dog.

The key word, though, is "respect". The dog ISN'T an inanimate toy. And mine. So ask


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Again and again and again all that would be needed in so very many situations is a bit of mutual respect and understanding and common courtesy. 

I often wish that those amongst society who have "friendly" dogs; kids who see dogs as toys; those who see themselves as some sort of superior being "Oh, all dogs LOVE me"; those who believe that a dog being in public means that it is their right to act as they wish with the dog etc etc etc could be given the experience of owning a dog for a week who does not like to be stroked and grabbed by all and sundry and does not like to be jumped on by rude dogs.

Just for that week I wish they could experience the rudeness, indignation and condescension that folk like them dish out on a daily basis to the owners of such dogs who are under control and going quietly about their business for daring to want to do just that.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Well, at least you did read it  Suppose it's better than complaining about an article you didn't read like sometimes happens on here :laugh:
> 
> Considering the number of likes the OP has, I'd consider myself very lucky if I were you - lucky that you have not experienced anything remotely like what the article describes.


Ouesi, thank you, how patronising. 

Yes, I have read it a few times and in each paragraph you can find over exaggerated comments like this; (*the only "personal property" we have that is subject to being assaulted by community members without recourse?) *

A staggeringly biased, blinkered and, most worryingly, divisive article.

Yes, you have thousands of 'likes' which suggests to me _they _haven't read it. (I hope.)


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I generally have no objection to my dog getting fusses and attention from strangers and for the most part neither does he. But sometimes it's really not as easy as "just say no". I have had to physically grab hold of people to prevent them making contact with previous dogs. And even that hasn't stopped them from keep on trying! People want to stroke the dog and they do not want to take no for an answer. And yes, they do seem to feel they have every right to maul any dog they encounter regardless of whether the dog is comfortable with what they're doing or not. 

If you went up to every person you came across and insisted on touching them you would be considered rude at best, why is it different when it comes to dogs?


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> Ouesi, thank you, how patronising.
> 
> Yes, I have read it a few times and in each paragraph you can find over exaggerated comments like this; (*the only "personal property" we have that is subject to being assaulted by community members without recourse?) *
> 
> ...


How offensive.

So Ouesi's patronising you, and yet you have the cheek to say that 30+ people mustn't have read that article because you have?!

I don't think Ouesi's patronising you- and we have the right to draw our own conclusions about the article thanks.

FACT - not all dogs like the constant attention from perfect strangers. Maybe they haven't been very well socialised as pups, maybe (like one of my own dogs) they're fine with a bit of a petting but would object to a toddler's bear hug, or maybe (as per my previous post - have you read THAT, by any chance?) they're having an off day and just want to be left alone.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

samuelsmiles said:


> *I have the right to say, "leave my dog alone," *
> 
> Well, in amongst the debris of that article here is the only sensible thing she wrote. Including a polite smile and a please would have been better....but....ach, the more you read it the more appalling it sounds.


yeaaaaah, right! coz that always works doesnt it??
What happens when you say "leave my dog alone" and the child still tries to grab it?, what about "leave my ****ing dog alone or she will bite you?", how about when said child will not 'leave you alone' and has backed you and your dog into a corner and it trying to grab the dog despite you repeatedly telling them not to whilst trying to sheild your dog with your legs? I'll tell you what happens the dog bites the kid and the dumb ****ing kid has teh cheek to look surprised!!:mad2:

Or how about when you dont have time to say "leave my dog alone" coz a random stranger swoops down with no warning, picks up your dog and drops it in the pram with their baby?

Or how about when you are happily walking along and feel a tug on your lead, turn around and find a small child dangling your Daxie cross in front of them in their arms? At what point before this happens do you say "leave my dog alone"?

Or what about....... well, you get my point!

Must be nice in cloud cuckoo land where nobody man handles your dog or risks injury because...well, its _soooo cute!_. I expect to get attention walking 4 tiny dogs and I dont even mind letting people adults or kids have the chance to stroke them. I do mind the grabbing, picking up, poking, prodding, and scaring of my dogs though.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

LinznMilly said:


> How offensive.
> 
> So Ouesi's patronising you, and yet you have the cheek to say that 30+ people mustn't have read that article because you have?!
> 
> ...


What _constant _attention? Where is this happening....where are all these screaming children running towards and molesting your dog?

Control the situation; be fair to your dog, take it somewhere where you don't put the dog in these stressful situations if it does find them stressful. Get a perfect recall and move away from these hoards of imaginary rampaging children.

Jeez, stop making these mountains out of molehills and get out and enjoy your dogs. _You _start to control things and stop constantly moaning about and blaming everyone else for everything. I think I've busted me keyboard.:mad5:


----------



## Guest (Jul 28, 2013)

I must say, I am grateful I don't have to deal with folks trying to pick mine up. My friends with little dogs deal with that a good bit. 
I guess the bottom line for me is that my dogs get a say in what they have to deal with, and I'm not going to be made out to be the bad guy for advocating for my dogs. If I say "no" or "stop" I expect that to be respected.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> What _constant _attention? Where is this happening....where are all these screaming children running towards and molesting your dog?


Sunny Norn Iron :yikes:. They need to be negotiated every day if I walk from home in the nice weather. Thankfully rain is the predominant weather here which keeps them at bay :thumbsup:.


----------



## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> What _constant _Control the situation; be fair to your dog, take it somewhere where you don't put the dog in these stressful situations if it does find them stressful. Get a perfect recall and move away from these hoards of imaginary rampaging children.


In my case I thought I was avoiding groups of excited children.... who knew these people would choose to picnic on an MOD dry training range ( that was in use complete with gunfire and flashbangs) rather than canal centre and playground a 2 min walk away or the in the award winning park across not 5 mins walk away.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

samuelsmiles said:


> Control the situation; be fair to your dog, take it somewhere where you don't put the dog in these stressful situations if it does find them stressful. Get a perfect recall and move away from these hoards of imaginary rampaging children.


How do you suggest that I take my dogs somewhere less stressful when I dont drive and have 4 schools within 15 minutes walk of me (in every direction!). Maybe we could all learn to levitate...Im sure that wouldnt attract attention!
I already avoid walking sat/sun and during the times schools open and shut and frankly I shouldnt be expected to do more then that. People should learn to keep their bloody hands to theirselves!!

Frankly I cant even take you seriously! You appear to be the only person in this thread who doesnt believe this goes on at all or is easy to cure by just telling someone not to touch their dog....so what is more likely?
You are right and everybody else is wrong?, or you are a deluded _person_ who wont believe anything just coz it doesnt happen to them?


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> What _constant _attention? Where is this happening....where are all these screaming children running towards and molesting your dog?
> 
> Control the situation; be fair to your dog, take it somewhere where you don't put the dog in these stressful situations if it does find them stressful. Get a perfect recall and move away from these hoards of imaginary rampaging children.
> 
> Jeez, stop making these mountains out of molehills and get out and enjoy your dogs. _You _start to control things and stop constantly moaning about and blaming everyone else for everything. I think I've busted me keyboard.:mad5:


Yeah, because avoiding kids is easy when you live in a town/city, don't drive and have to negotiate the streets or children's play areas to get to anywhere decent and AWAY from public attention to GET to those "quieter areas" and get your dogs away from these stressful situations. 

How rude of you! I can control my dog but I cannot be expected to control my dog and someone else brats and their so called parents because someone amongst them should have the common sense - _and _common _courtesy _to ASK the dog owner if it's OK to approach/pet their dog.

I'm done here before I say something I regret.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

LinznMilly said:


> Yeah, because avoiding kids is easy when you live in a town/city, don't drive and have to negotiate the streets or children's play areas to get to anywhere decent and AWAY from public attention to GET to those "quieter areas" and get your dogs away from these stressful situations.
> 
> How rude of you! I can control my dog but I cannot be expected to control my dog and someone else brats and their so called parents because someone amongst them should have the common sense - _and _common _courtesy _to ASK the dog owner if it's OK to approach/pet their dog.
> 
> I'm done here before I say something I regret.


Awwww, bless ya.

Go on, say it.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

samuelsmiles said:


> Awwww, bless ya.
> 
> Go on, say it.


Dont bother LM.....he really isnt worth it!


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> Dont bother LM.....he really isnt worth it!


He's on ignore ... and blissful peace returns once more. 

Even better, I can follow the thread again :thumbup: :laugh:


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> What _constant _attention? Where is this happening....where are all these screaming children running towards and molesting your dog?


Pretty much everwhere except Hertfordshire, seemingly 

I ask this without sarcasm: Is Herts. perhaps not very dog friendly?

Unless your dog looks and behaves ferocious you'd have a pretty hard time keeping kids and people at bay down here in Devon. And that is for an adult dog. Forget about puppies, it is a given that it will have kids all over them.

Which isn't a particular problem if the puppy joyfully reciprocates the attention. Good social training opportunity for canine AND human infant alike.

But if your pup or dog hates it because it is timid, then what?

Can't speak for Herts. but here people don't go around bellowing at young children or shaking a stick at them. Even IF they are overzealous and their attention unwanted. And it isn't that kids nowadays are terribly au fait with the simple word "No". Their own parents have often zero control over them, so what makes you think they'd listen to a stranger?

Trust me - it really can be a problem


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I took my Springer to a show today and had to fend off a few youngsters trying to make a grab for my dog. 
Whilst waiting for a drink one young girl was purposely getting closer and closer shaking a packet of crisps because she enjoyed the reaction from Moll who was scared. Charming child with no parent in sight.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

kat&molly said:


> Charming child with no parent in sight.


yes, they are lovely arent they?
A group of young lads once tried to scare Adam by throwing firecrackers in front of us. It 'backfired' on them though coz noises dont bother Adam and he thought all the laughing and jeering was meant to be fun!


----------



## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

You know when I read threads like this I am really glad I have managed to persuade my OH no more doggies for us ( not that I want anything to happen to my beloved trio I hasten to add!!) just that honestly seems to me owning dogs is more bloody hassle than its worth. I do get attention from people, I don`t like anyone touching my dogs so tell them not to. But my god some of the stories on here, kids being put on dogs backs, lips being lifted, dog suddenly having strangers hanging off their necks and seemingly sod all you can do about it.

I have not had to deal with that thankfully, really do not no how I would cope if I had to, but if that is how the majority of the public are and I have just been very lucky to of only experienced mild attention then I am glad that I will not have to push that luck any further than my current dogs lifetime!!


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Pretty much everwhere except Hertfordshire, seemingly
> 
> *I ask this without sarcasm: Is Herts. perhaps not very dog friendly?*
> 
> ...


I'm not sure really. Contrary to the article, neither have been groped though.

Molested? No, but on separate occasions we've had a couple of Asian toddlers approaching Percy to pet him, despite the parents looking a little apprehensive. After a few minutes the toddler and both parents were on their knees throwing a ball for him, petting him, taking photos (Oh, how dare they) and just smiling a lot.

Assaulted by community member? No, but on another occasion he was in a down stay when the child approached and wanted to pet him. Great opportunity for a down stay with distractions; and another happy kid.

Nope, all good here.

PS. Below is another little gem from the article/rant.

*She shouldn't be forced into situations which make her uncomfortable, she's my friend and it's my job to help her feel safe*

DO IT THEN!


----------



## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Agree- Bailey loves people and I have had most people ask. But I am trying to teach him not to jump up so its really annoying when someone doesn`t ask and lets him jump all over them.
A while back I had a man swoop down, pick up Bailey and hold bailey close to his face whilst Bailey licked him 
I had a toddler rush up to my dog and jumped on him.
Had a bunch of kids run past him squealing and shouting.
People seem to think "oh young girl, small dog must be fine for me to cuddle or my kids to rush up to"


----------



## dnlbwls (Jul 14, 2013)

i have to agree totally now i have a well behaved 7 month old jrt scooby, and he is well behaved and learning day by day, we are his second owners and his first although sold him to us did some training with him he's just picked up well,he walks great on the lead and generally when off it comes back straight away,he sits when he wants but always stays put at the kerb till told to move on...
now with the hot weather being like it is i walk to a sandwich shop almost a mile away (as they put meat on a sandwich ) and obviously it's a food shop so i have to leave scooby outside i wrap his lead to a post and he sits waiting........
picture this and this has happened 3 times in a week, i unleash his lead and tell him to stay,then some ejit awww look decides to say hi ,as he is excitable off he goes then they either grab him and pick him up or drag him to me by the collar, when all they need to do is leave him alone he will stay and i will put his lead on him, even in the park i've had comments like oh theyre yappy horrible things,which he is not he's well behaved for his age,yes playful at time,but times when he is allowed to be..................
does my head in i'm shouting at the next person as it completely throws him off his training and him being well behaved the poor dog doesn't understand at times it's not his fault.......


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I can always tell dog people by the way they come up to Dillon letting him sniff their hand first before touching him that's fine, but I hate it when people just make a put for him then I always say no don't touch him. After all they wouldn't like a stranger to run up to them and ruff their hair would they.


----------



## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

In general, I dont really mind people stroking my dogs, although I wont allow children as my dogs arent used to children and I wouldnt trust them. I keep a very close eye on Jed because he can be quite wary and has snapped at people before (vet, microchip scanner man, people I know), Jessie is quite timid and doesnt really bother with people but Flynn loves attention.

We've been to a dog show today and the amount of people who just come over and touch the dogs without checking it's ok first is astonishing - not one person asked before they touched my dogs. Often they touched them without me actually initially knowing about it. They were the same with just bringing their dogs over to "say hello" - it got to the point where I simply said "no thank you, mine dont want to say hello". Flynn always attracts quite a bit of attention because he's handsome and people generally dont know what kind of dog he is so they are intrigued but he loves people and is polite with his greetings so it's not normally an issue.

I have to say though that i'm not a person who actually touches other dogs. It's very rare that I will approach another dog for a fuss, I very rarely even stroke my friends dogs! There is no particular reason behind it, it just doesnt really occur to me.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> Flynn always attracts quite a bit of attention because he's handsome and people generally dont know what kind of dog he is so they are intrigued but he loves people and is polite with his greetings so it's not normally an issue.


I used to get the same with Rupert, people would stop me on the street to ask about him and make a fuss of him. He loved it and once he'd learned to greet politely it was no big deal. He loved going on public transport because of the attention he got, so much so that if a bus pulled up as we passed a bus stop he'd try and drag me on. Poor Spen being a boring Labrador doesn't get anywhere near the same amount of attention.

I will touch other peoples dogs if they come for a fuss but never force myself on them. I don't feel the need to go around stroking every dog I see or anything like that lol.


----------



## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

I have a Dalmatian... it actually frightens me how many children approach my husband and I, and how seldom an adult is with them... What ever happened to "Stranger Danger"..:yikes:


----------



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I get annoyed sometimes..I never got it alot with Inca as we previously lived in an area with high incidence of Asians who seem terrified of dogs particuarly black ones...and Inca is predomininantly black and was young, pulled alot and snapped alot. 

Now we're in a village most people own a dog and my Border Collie puppy is so maddeningly adorable that everyone loves him on sight instantly! 
I don't mind old folk stopping for a chat they often more gentle and just want a chat, I live on my own too so its nice to have a quick chat with someone whose not completely 'in your face'. ... but I hate school holidays and kids wanting to pet them and it happens alot with JJ been so young and goddamn cute!!  

The worst case was last winter .. ... snow and ice covered pavements I could only get around main road was literally up the middle of the main road as only part clear..Inca trots alongside on pavement but JJ was too young to trust at that time so would sit on footplate (looking adorable in his little fleece hoody and puppy harness)..until we could get near some grass for me to let him sniff about (on extending lead) as couldn't get right up to kerb . ..anyway they have just been on this bit of grass when these two women comes down road. ...GROWN women I might add!..One of them squeals like a child and RUNS towards JJ! who shoots off to full length of extending lead to get to her..I'm still in middle of road with a bus now coming towards us on one of those bits of roads where you pull over to give right of way to oncoming traffic..due to snowdrifts the part where you pull over was covered in several inches of snow so I couldn't... whilst this woman continues to squeal like a toddler and gush 'oh my god I love puppies he's so adorable!! etc .. Inca by this time had made her way over to this mad woman to see what all the fuss was about and if she could get some fuss too! 

I'm like .."erm I need to go..the bus needs to come past"..trying to reel JJ back in .... the other woman who must have been her daughter looked clearly embarrassed ..and was saying "mum .. there's a bus, she's in middle of the road!" ..talk about putting someone in a dangerous situation!!  .. a child running out I might have been able to understand and say you shouldn't run into road to stroke people's dogs...though that's really the parents job to teach them this!..what do you do when its a grown woman??? 

After a last few minutes of enthusiastic gushing from this woman, which i didn't catch it all I was too busy rather red-faced mouthing 'sorry' to the bus driver waiting to get down the road..the woman finally let us go! ..I then had to try and get down the road with a rather hyped up puppy and older dog who was off-lead and wanting to go back for more fuss by this potty woman! :blushing: 

I dreaded bumping into her again after that but wasn't helped by fact there was only one route clear enough for our daily walk and it was often nearly lunch time before any fresh snow had cleared enough for me to get the scooter up to the main road! 

I thought of the yellow coat but Inca has a an high vis yellow coat and with me been in a wheelchair/or on scooter people just assume it means she's an assistance dog and still want to come to pet them!!


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't mind if they ask, though I then have the problem of actually persuading them to get into the car because there is so much fuss to be had outside it.

Yesterday I was just about to get the dogs into the car when a group of people having a picnic started asking about them and that was it really. Couldn't get away.

However, the original post is not without foundation. My son used to help a Downs Syndrome boy to travel on the train with him and there was this woman who made a beeline for him and started talking to him like he was a toddler. I suppose it made her feel good that she didn't ignore or shy away like a lot of people do, but I couldn't help being angry on his behalf.


----------



## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

I am very glad we live out in the sticks, we rarely see anyone who takes an interest in 2 older Labs and even more rarely have someone rush over to fuss the dogs without asking.
Scooter used to be a regular on the school run and most of the children asked me before stroking him; the ones who didn't were told gently that they must always ask first. Hopefully I got through to a few, Scooter adored the attention regardless, he loves little people.
Have had our fair share of "grabby hands" when I've ventured into town with Breeze, can be annoying but I'm getting very good at avoiding people.

I do feel for people with popular breeds, like Chi's, Pugs and Bulldogs. My ex couldn't cover any ground when out with his Bulldog as there seemed to be a constant stream of admirers wanting to smoosh Major's wrinkles and shove their faces into his. Would drive me potty.


----------



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

sometimes I wish I'd got an Akita or staffie that most people are afraid of and had the sense to have it muzzled when walking in busy areas from the beginning so people gave us a wide berth!! ..I'm seriously thinking of it if I do get another dog after Inca, but I wouldn't want one with reputation for been aggressive with other dogs it lived with cos of JJ. ..unless I adopted an older female who just looked scary..lol!


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

northnsouth said:


> I have a Dalmatian... it actually frightens me how many children approach my husband and I, and how seldom an adult is with them... What ever happened to "Stranger Danger"..:yikes:


I once had a little girl in a park stop and fuss the dogs. Then she grabbed hold of my hand and informed me that she was coming home with me to play with the puppies!!
Scared the life out of me as I couldnt shake her and I couldnt work out which of the adults (in the distance) she belonged to!


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

But when it's all said and done and you had to choose between:

* an overchummy, but benevolent, dog lover?
Or
*someone who keeps their distance and their hands to themselves but looks at your dog with disdain & disgust as if they just stepped in something vile?

......which one would you prefer? 

For me, the former wins over the latter every time. I can't stand people who hate all dogs on principle. Don't care what anyone tells me- those people have a part of their soul missing. How can one detest all dogs, on accounts of being"dogs"?

And, not forgetting, there is also category C, consisting of people who are so neurotic that they go into full hysterical meltdown if your dog only glances at them.

I get that some people are afraid of dogs. And I respect their caution and/or fear. If I got the merest whiff of sensation that my dogs made someone even slightly uncomfortable, I bent over backwards to rectify that.

But there is a profound difference between someone feeling afraid because a strange dog is shooting towards them or someone being so neurotic that they start screaming when a dog walks by. My favourite episode of that: I was out walking with my dog. Gorgeous day, very popular dog walking area. Dog and I stroll along, all content and happy, when I hear a piercing, blood-curdling scream "get him off me, get him off me!"

My eyes snapped open in alert horror. Holy Moses, was someone being raped?

No, my dog, a social fellow, thought he wanted to introduce himself to a woman walker. I still saw him bimbling towards her. Slowly. Tail swishing.

He was 4 months old.

4 months.

And he looked like a fluffy teddy-bear.

He wasn't jumping up, he hadn't even reached the screaming gal. My instinct was to ask whether she had a screw loose. Instead I zoomed to my pup, put him on the leash and told the woman to seek urgent psychiatric help. Fear or no fear, that is a crazy, completely neurotic reaction to a slowly trundling puppy.

Weird folks out there. Give me a happy groper any day....


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> But when it's all said and done and you had to choose between:
> 
> * an overchummy, but benevolent, dog lover?
> Or
> ...


Sorry, but having had as extreme a phobia of dogs as that in the past, I do relate with the woman, and I'd have been livid with you if you'd had said something along the lines of that - especially if it was your dog causing my distress. People can't help their phobias and yes, even cute cuddly teddy-bear-looking puppies just ambling along minding their own business can cause such an extreme reaction as that. She wasn't "neurotic" she was terrified. And telling the woman she needed psychiatric help IMHO was uncalled for.

Phobics have to want to deal with, control and conquer their fear and your reaction wouldn't have helped make her feel any better.

So, in answer to your question, I suppose because of my own past phobia, I can relate to others who are frightened - yes - even to that level - of dogs, and I'd do all I could to help them or to relieve their stress. I certainly wouldn't be giving the woman unsolicited medical advice.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> But when it's all said and done and you had to choose between:
> 
> * an overchummy, but benevolent, dog lover?
> Or
> ...


I remember when my Joshua was only about three months old. Certainly a larger than average puppy, but a puppy none the less. He went toddling up to a couple with a child about three and a baby but it was the little dog they had on a lead that he was interested in. The woman grabbed her child and swung him up out of the way and the man demanded an apology for letting my dog come up to his brats (sorry, kids). I'm afraid I told him to grow up, that he was only a puppy.

Another time a woman had brought her friend on to the heath who was obviously not a dog person. My two went up to say hello to their dog and she started crying! Please call them, she pleaded. They're growling! Yeah, right. They were play growling ffs.

I think I prefer the over enthusiastic types as well, come to think about it.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I remember when my Joshua was only about three months old. Certainly a larger than average puppy, but a puppy none the less. He went toddling up to a couple with a child about three and a baby but it was the little dog they had on a lead that he was interested in. The woman grabbed her child and swung him up out of the way and the man demanded an apology for letting my dog come up to his brats (sorry, kids). I'm afraid I told him to grow up, that he was only a puppy.
> 
> Another time a woman had brought her friend on to the heath who was obviously not a dog person. My two went up to say hello to their dog and she started crying! Please call them, she pleaded. * They're growling! Yeah, right. They were play growling ffs.*
> 
> I think I prefer the over enthusiastic types as well, come to think about it.


And would the woman who was "obviously not a dog person" have known that?

Not everyone knows the difference between a play growl and a warning growl. I know I wouldn't have until I got Max and learnt it the hard way.

I know it's unlikely that any dog owner on here will ever experience that level of fear of dogs, but by God I hope if they ever develop a phobia over something else just as strong, that they don't experience the ridicule they've inflicted on this thread (and apparently in RL too).


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Nope I would def prefer to be looked at with disdain and contempt to the overly friendly ones! 
Point is that my dogs arent going to even notice the dirty looks and tuts in their direction...what they will notice is someone screaming, running towards them and trying to pick them up! 
I dont even mind the weirdos, like the woman who picked her little Yorkie up and ran off to avoid my Chihuahuas (who were pottering along happily!).


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

LinznMilly said:


> And would the woman who was "obviously not a dog person" have known that?
> 
> Not everyone knows the difference between a play growl and a warning growl. I know I wouldn't have until I got Max and learnt it the hard way.
> 
> I know it's unlikely that any dog owner on here will ever experience that level of fear of dogs, but by God I hope if they ever develop a phobia over something else just as strong, that they don't experience the ridicule they've inflicted on this thread (and apparently in RL too).


I didn't intend to ridicule the woman, and I do understand, but would you when you had such a fear have deliberately exposed yourself to an area where you knew there would be loads of them? I have the same fear of birds, probably worse since I cannot ever see myself getting over it, but I would never go somewhere where I know they are going to be.

Some fear have to be overcome for the sake of everyday life, some you can manage to avoid.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> But when it's all said and done and you had to choose between:
> 
> * an overchummy, but benevolent, dog lover?
> Or
> ...


If my dog were frightened of people then give me the second one any day. I don't care how well meaning and friendly someone is or how much they love dogs, if the dog doesn't want petting for whatever reason then they need to respect that. The over friendly, must touch every dog they see type p*ss me off just as much as the neurotic, scream if a dog so much as glances at them from across the street type to be perfectly honest.

That said, I don't care how friendly, fluffy, cute or whatever a dog is, it shouldn't be wandering up to people uninvited. For the sake of the people AND the dog. People here will pick up anything to hand to hit an approaching dog with, will kick it, will do whatever they feel they need to do to get the dog to go away.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I didn't intend to ridicule the woman, and I do understand, but would you when you had such a fear have deliberately exposed yourself to an area where you knew there would be loads of them? I have the same fear of birds, probably worse since I cannot ever see myself getting over it, but I would never go somewhere where I know they are going to be.
> 
> Some fear have to be overcome for the sake of everyday life, some you can manage to avoid.


Well ... considering there were dogs in my street, dogs in the streets in front, behind, to the right and in the 2 across the main road from me - not to mention the probability of dogs living in the street running at 90* to mine - AND not to mention that I lived uphill to an area frequented by dog owners and their offlead charges, through which I'd have to walk just to get certain buses, then the only place I could stay without running the gauntlet of encountering dogs, was in my own house, I had no option BUT to expose myself to areas frequented by dogs. Sadly around that area, many people just let their dogs out and call them in for tea, so I'd see at least 2 or 3 every time I left the house.

If it wasn't for the fact I was sitting my GCSEs at the time, chances are I'd have become frightened to even leave the house.

As for suggesting that your fear is probably worse than mine was because you can't ever see yourself overcoming it, sorry but you're wrong again. Been there, done that, said exactly the same thing as you just have there, to someone whose daughter was as frightened of dogs as I was, but who had overcome it by getting a puppy herself. I never in a million years thought that only 4 years later, I'd have a dog myself.

Oh - and when we got Max, it wasn't to cure my phobia - it was because my mam wanted a dog and I refused to be the reason she didn't get one.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I didn't intend to ridicule the woman, and I do understand, but would you when you had such a fear have deliberately exposed yourself to an area where you knew there would be loads of them? I have the same fear of birds, probably worse since I cannot ever see myself getting over it, but I would never go somewhere where I know they are going to be.
> 
> Some fear have to be overcome for the sake of everyday life, some you can manage to avoid.


You can't avoid going out. When I was phobic I went to great, some would say extreme, lengths to avoid dogs. I still found myself frozen to the spot on far too many occasions (not screaming, quietly begging them to take their dog away) while some thoughtless person let their dog invade my space, usually telling me either that it was my fault for being afraid, or that he was just being friendly.
The only way I could have ensured I never encountered a dog would have been to never leave the house - not exactly good for a person's mental well being...


----------



## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

I think I must live in a parallel universe to most people on this thread.

I have never had kids coming up to my dogs without asking first.Even the neighbourhood kids that we see most days ask if they can clap (stroke) the dogs.

I was a bit confused when I first moved here when people asked if they could clap my dogs though.

I walk my dogs in areas populated by lots of children and I can't recall one instance when a child has come up without asking first.

I have known one of my dogs go and sit next to a seat if it has people on waiting to be stroked though.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Well people come up to Cian all the time now, I have to say most people are polite about it, although we had him at the Market yesterday and some child jumped out of no where and squished his face  Gotta admit it is squishable.. I'm making the most of it because I know in a few months people won't want to pet him and that kind of makes me sad..

But I do think people should ask before petting, and be a bit more considerate about how they pet a dog, I have to admit to being someone who has to pet peoples dogs


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

Thread starts out about people touching dogs being wrong but morphs into people not wanting to touch dogs being wrong.

Poor people, we just can't win :001_tt2:


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> Sorry, but having had as extreme a phobia of dogs as that in the past, I do relate with the woman, and I'd have been livid with you if you'd had said something along the lines of that - especially if it was your dog causing my distress. People can't help their phobias and yes, even cute cuddly teddy-bear-looking puppies just ambling along minding their own business can cause such an extreme reaction as that. _She wasn't "neurotic" she was terrified. And telling the woman she needed psychiatric help IMHO was uncalled for._
> 
> Phobics have to want to deal with, control and conquer their fear and your reaction wouldn't have helped make her feel any better.
> 
> So, in answer to your question, I suppose because of my own past phobia, I can relate to others who are frightened - yes - even to that level - of dogs, and I'd do all I could to help them or to relieve their stress. I certainly wouldn't be giving the woman unsolicited medical advice.


I'm sorry, I disagree.

I have a good friend, a close friend, who has severe anxiety issues around strange dogs.

It has nothing to do how friendly, or young, or well behaved the dog is. It has nothing to do with her not liking dogs per se, either.

And she would be the first to tell you that she is acutely aware that this a full blown neurosis. Which should be addressed and treated.

It is what it is. I fully appreciate that it may be uncomfortable to hear, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

Substitute the word "puppy" for "toddler". Or "bluefinch". You really don't think that someone should seek urgent professional medical help if they started screaming blue murder if a young child or small bird approached them?

I'd actually would have understood it somewhat, and apologized accordingly, if my pup would have made actual contact with the woman. But hysterically yelling " get him off me!" when he was nowhere ON her was plainly absurd. And unhinged. If I am this afraid of dogs, why would I be walking alone in the most popular dog walking area of the county? ( and yes, she was local, I wasn't the only recipient of her ....whatever you want to call it)


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Mulish said:


> Thread starts out about people touching dogs being wrong but morphs into people not wanting to touch dogs being wrong.
> 
> Poor people, we just can't win :001_tt2:


hahahahaa I get that people can have problems, and that it's unacceptable the way some people are with dogs. I do think it's sad that people don't want to squish Rottweilers when they get older, but hey ho each to their own


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

cravensmum said:


> I think I must live in a parallel universe to most people on this thread.
> 
> I have never had kids coming up to my dogs without asking first.Even the neighbourhood kids that we see most days ask if they can clap (stroke) the dogs.


count yourself lucky! Maybe you just live in a politer area then some of us.
Although I think the type of dog can affect the attention you get. So puppies, 'cute' looking dogs and very big/small dogs seem to attract more grabby hands.


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> She wasn't "neurotic" she was terrified. And telling the woman she needed psychiatric help IMHO was uncalled for.


LiznMilly...I mean no disrespect.

But extreme *irrational* fear - of whatever this may be - IS a neurosis. A phobia is a subset of this.

We aren't doing the person, or the world at large, a kind favour by not calling it what it is.

And I hope she did get help. For her own sake as much as anyone elses.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

cravensmum said:


> I think I must live in a parallel universe to most people on this thread.
> 
> I have never had kids coming up to my dogs without asking first.Even the neighbourhood kids that we see most days ask if they can clap (stroke) the dogs.
> 
> ...


Careful what you say...I might move in with you :devil: .


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> LiznMilly...I mean no disrespect.
> 
> But extreme *irrational* fear - of whatever this may be - IS a neurosis. A phobia is a subset of this.
> 
> ...


Actually it doesn't matter if the object of the fear is a child, a bluebird, ladders or snakes. It's a phobia and as irrational as it may seem to the onlooker, it is very real to the person suffering from it.

I'd better sign off now because you are annoying me now.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> LiznMilly...I mean no disrespect.
> 
> But extreme *irrational* fear - of whatever this may be - IS a neurosis. A phobia is a subset of this.
> 
> ...


I think that suggesting you were trying to help is a bit rich.....if you were trying to help you might reassure her that you were not going to let the pup approach her or something like that.....telling a terrified person to seek psychiatric help - how kind :laugh:

If someone is terrified of my dog, it doesn't impact on me negatively at all. I haven't let him make unwanted approaches, so their reaction only causes me to feel pity. So I can afford a bit of kindness to that person, in letting them know I won't let him come over, and that I understand. It costs nothing.


----------



## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

Dogless said:


> Careful what you say...I might move in with you :devil: .


I did think about removing my location before posting.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

My original post was to point out the appallingly sensationalist tone of the article/rant. Beginning with the ludicrous analogy, and continuing with the over exaggerations to give the non-story any impact.

The author, Casey Lomonaco, is supposedly a dog behaviourist so, I suggest, if you "_need to wait a few minutes while I make sure that he is standing at my side, on a loose leash_" you get your dog under better control before you start berating serial gropers and dog molesters. I can get my two under control and sitting in front of me in a few seconds.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> My original post was to point out the appallingly sensationalist tone of the article/rant. Beginning with the ludicrous analogy, and continuing with the over exaggerations to give the non-story any impact.
> 
> The author, Casey Lomonaco, is supposedly a dog behaviourist so, I suggest, if you "_need to wait a few minutes while I make sure that he is standing at my side, on a loose leash_" you get your dog under better control before you start berating serial gropers and dog molesters. I can get my two under control and sitting in front of me in a few seconds.


Bully for you............................

I can do the same but don't feel the need to brag about it, and why should we have to while out walking if people have manners? You expect your dogs to jump to it, why not ask people to have a bit more respect and courtesy for your dogs..

While I am sad that people won't approach my very well trained Rottweiler, I also think it's not someones "right" to approach my dog.. As for telling people I've had a Army Guard dog at the end of a lead showing all it's pearly white and the person still insisted that they "were a dog person and all dogs loved them" this dog was not pretending............

So drop the condescending whiter than white act


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

cravensmum said:


> I did think about removing my location before posting.


I know where you walk sometimes......I would stake the place out..... .


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> Actually it doesn't matter if the object of the fear is a child, a bluebird, ladders or snakes. It's a phobia and as irrational as it may seem to the onlooker, it is very real to the person suffering from it.
> 
> I'd better sign off now because you are annoying me now.


I am sorry that I am annoying you. And evidently offending you.

This wasn't my intention. Truly.

And I fully realise that an irrational fear is VERY real to the person.

But the pivotal point isn't whether the fear is real or unreal. The point is that is is irrational and a neurosis.

A person hearing voices in their head saying that you are the devil, REALLY hears these voices. And for sure it isn't their fault for hearing them.

But would you rather that person got appropriate treatment...or would you rather that he just knifed you in your heart when you are out walking your dogs? And the voices are telling him to kill you, before you kill him. Since you are the devil.

Yes, absolutely there is a difference between suffering from a neurosis or a full blown psychosis. One has an irrational fear but is still in touch with reality, where the other one's irrationality has lead to full detachment with reality. But are you seriously suggesting that someone screaming at the top of their lungs because a puppy is in the vicinity should best be politely ignored?

I genuinly thought someone was in grave peril, being raped or murdered. Scared the pants off me, never mind my young dog. I was considerably more concerned what this extraordinairy behaviour display would do to him, rather than a few candid words from me to her.

As long as people don't terrify me or my dogs they can be as phobic or neurotic as they wish.


----------



## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

so true, im hating the summer holidays at the moment, I took Apollo out to the gardens across the road and two brothers at two seperate times while I was walking Apollo came running up to him going 'doggie doggie' with there arms out going to grab him even though he wears a muzzle, he doesn't mind children but I don't allow any strangers to touch him unless he asks for the contact, I automatically pulled him behind me both times and said he isn't friendly, the parents were sat on the grass the first time and said nothing and just walked on the second time saying nothing again, If I wasn't in a rush I would've told them off the childen and the parents, my 2 and half year old would never run up to a strange dog she's done it once or twice before and I've always grabbed her before she got anywhere near and told her you don't touch strange dogs especially without asking.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Bully for you............................
> 
> I can do the same but don't feel the need to brag about it, and why should we have to while out walking if people have manners? You expect your dogs to jump to it, why not ask people to have a bit more respect and courtesy for your dogs..
> 
> ...


Well, you didn't get the irony in my post.

The author of the article/rant said it took her a few minutes to get her dog under control and on a loose leash before she would allow people to pet it. I'm sure this was another of her exaggerations; it probably took her seconds too, like your dogs and mine. It was the sensationalism I found a bit galling.

Oh well, I guess I've just been very lucky over the last couple of years. I'll keep my eyes open, though, and make sure Percy and Maggie are not molested, groped or assaulted by community members.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> Well, you didn't get the irony in my post.
> 
> The author of the article/rant said it took her a few minutes to get her dog under control and on a loose leash before she would allow people to pet it. I'm sure this was another of her exaggerations; it probably took her seconds too, like your dogs and mine. It was the sensationalism I found a bit galling.
> 
> Oh well, I guess I've just been very lucky over the last couple of years. I'll keep my eyes open, though, and make sure Percy and Maggie are not molested, groped or assaulted by community members.


Samuelsmiles correct me if I'm wrong did you not only become a first time dog owner in the last year and a half or so?


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

myshkin said:


> I think that suggesting you were trying to help is a bit rich.....if you were trying to help you might reassure her that you were not going to let the pup approach her or something like that.....telling a terrified person to seek psychiatric help - how kind :laugh:
> 
> If someone is terrified of my dog, it doesn't impact on me negatively at all. I haven't let him make unwanted approaches, so their reaction only causes me to feel pity. So I can afford a bit of kindness to that person, in letting them know I won't let him come over, and that I understand. It costs nothing.


Believe me, you HAD to be there and you'd see it differently.

Hearing a earpiercing scream whilst you are enjoying your walk with your new pup will startle you to an extent that you may not be as considerate as you normally are. Why couldn't she have simply called over "Excuse me, would you mind holding on to the dog for a minute?". Most DEFINITELY I would have.

I hadn't seen her. Can't remember whether I was day-dreaming or scanning the horizon for livestock my pup wasn't yet used to. Had I noticed someone standing and looking apprehensive, I would have instantly leashed him. I am not as bad as you think 

I really do get that people can be terrified of dogs ( even though they usually have a better grip of themselves and don't scream loudly). The town I live in is exceptionally dog friendly. Almost too much so, even if that sounds slightly odd. A great many people don't leash their dogs even right in the centre of town. Not that long ago I was out and about with my dog anxious friend.

2 dogs ( a huge male bullmastiff and a Rotti x Staffy) gaily traipse along the pavement, no leash, the owner way behind them. Now...I know those 2 dogs and they are as sweet natured as can be. But I thought K, my friend, was literally going to pass out. My main fear was that the dogs would think "Hey, we know her ( me), let's go say "hello".

So I grabbed my friend quickly and did a sharp diversion into another road. The crowning glory? 4 unleashed BCs with their owner heading directly our way. Again, I knew those dogs and they are impeccably trained. They wouldn't stay any closer to their owner even IF they were leashed. Still, my friend was literally in tears and bolted into a shop.

There is no need for letting a dog, even a highly trained, friendly dog, run amok with peoples fear. Not the dogs fault, obviously. But WHY do they need to be off leash in the middle of a town? Especially since we are in the lucky position to have 396 sq.miles of Dartmoor, where the dogs can run free to their heart's content, just up the road. Not necessary. And inconsiderate.

But what ALSO isn't necessary and inconsiderate is to scream blue murder at a pup in an area where dogs ARE expected and allowed to be free.If one's fear is that bad, either get help and a grip on it....or stay away.

Or should dogs simply NEVER be off the leash? Anywhere? I think I am very vigilant, but no, I don't constantly svivvel around in all directions looking whether a person with dog fear issues may be approaching.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> *IBut are you seriously suggesting that someone screaming at the top of their lungs because a puppy is in the vicinity should best be politely ignored? *
> 
> I genuinly thought someone was in grave peril, being raped or murdered. Scared the pants off me, never mind my young dog. I was considerably more concerned what this extraordinairy behaviour display would do to him, rather than a few candid words from me to her.
> 
> As long as people don't terrify me or my dogs they can be as phobic or neurotic as they wish.


People who are that afraid of dogs cannot react rationally when faced with their fear. You cannot apply logic to something that, by its very nature IS illogical.

And no - I'm not suggesting you politely ignore the woman but you were still bang out of order for telling her something she's probably fully aware of and maybe not up to facing just yet.

When away from the cause of the phobia, most people CAN rationalise and know their fear is their problem/that they need help - whatever, but that doesn't help them when they're faced with this evil beast which is hell-bent on ripping them apart - AKA - a dog.



Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Believe me, you HAD to be there and you'd see it differently.
> 
> Hearing a earpiercing scream whilst you are enjoying your walk with your new pup will startle you to an extent that you may not be as considerate as you normally are. Why couldn't she have simply called over "Excuse me, would you mind holding on to the dog for a minute?". Most DEFINITELY I would have.
> 
> ...


People react in different ways to different scenarios. I froze, I screamed, I turned and ran. BUT I was ALWAYS COMPLETELY UNABLE to say "please can you get your dog - I'm terrified". That's the nature of the phobia - any phobia - rational - and ALL rational - thought takes a hike.

As for all dogs being leashed, depending on how bad the phobia is, that isn't going to help either. Some people are scared of even PHOTOS of dogs.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Samuelsmiles correct me if I'm wrong did you not only become a first time dog owner in the last year and a half or so?


Meezey; yes, I will correct you because you are wrong. 2 1/2 years. 

_"*Because people try to grab her without even asking or proceed to try to grab her after I ask that we be left alone*._

"Grab her"?....."Proceed to grab her"?

I'm sure it's another one of her flights of fantasy to make this non story into something it's not but, if someone did "grab" either of my dogs, I can assure you they would only need to be told once not to do it. They wouldn't get the opportunity to "proceed to grab her."

_"*She shouldn't be forced into situations which make her uncomfortable, she's my friend and it's my job to help her feel safe*."_

If, in the unlikely event that this is "serially" happening to her dogs, she should really take her own advice from the quote above.


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> Meezey; yes, I will correct you because you are wrong. 2 1/2 years.
> 
> _"*Because people try to grab her without even asking or proceed to try to grab her after I ask that we be left alone*._
> 
> ...




I hear what you are saying about the particular terms used. And to be honest, some didn't sit comfortably with with me, either. "Molested", in this context, isn't my usual definition of molested.

However......I HAVE seen puppies being molested . There is no other word for it. And I felt REALLY sorry for both owner and pup.*

Visualize the following: 4 kids and 1 adult heading towards 1 owner walking a young pup.*

Kids ( collectively) " WOOOOOOOOW!!!!! A PUUUUUUPPPYYYYYY!! CUUUUUUUTE!!!!"*

Running off towards pup and owner. Hands everywhere. Kids overexitedly trying to talk over one another, so it is VERY noisy. Pup, overwhelmed and afraid, tries to hide between *owner's legs. Owner desperatly tries to calm kids, disentangle leash wrapped around her ankles and soothe the pup simultanously. Adult feebly calls something to the kids, who ignore it. Owner still tries to dissuade kids who swarm all over pup, still trying to plead with kids to back off.*

Because that is often how things are playing out when the parent/nanny/whoever-supposed-to-be-in-charge doesn't step up. We live in a *VERY child oriented world and the child is king. *I love and enjoy kids, but certain societal norms have become ridiculous. You can't put a bunch of kids *in charge *of who-should-do-what and who-should-listen-to-whom and not expect things to get rather dicey.*

But yeah, that pup absolutely got "molested", "groped" and "assaulted". No 2 ways about it. And the owner definitly wanted to make it feel *safe but, like the author of the article, they were forced into being in that situation. It isn't something I read in an article either, its something I observed many times.

Saying "do it then" is a bit of a moot point if you are hopelessly outnumbered and bound by societal constraints. *Also falls under the easier said than done category. How often do you think I wanted to say:"Christ on a bike! Yes, my dogs are great/beautiful/ whatnot, thanks for the interest, compliments, etc...but can't you see I am desperatly trying to have a conversation with my friend/partner here? Buzz off!".*

But, generally, we don't. We don't go and offend and insult people for wanting to be nice to our dogs, pet the puppy, or compliment our dogs. And we don't want to end up with a criminal record either. Have you read what happens to adults when they have tried to physically restrain someone elses child? Never mind push it away. _Not pretty_.

**If you are lucky you get away with shouting. But not everyone is cut out to holler "ENOUGH!!!" loud enough to be heard from dog friendly Devon to seemingly dog molestation free Hertfordshire, either


----------



## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Oxford Dictionary

Definition of molest in English.

verb 
[with object]
1assault or abuse (a person, especially a woman or child) sexually: he was charged with molesting and taking obscene photographs of a ten-year-old boy

2 dated pester or harass (someone) in an aggressive or persistent manner:the crowd were shouting abuse and molesting the two police officers

Derivatives

molestation

Pronunciation: /mɒlɛˈsteɪʃ(ə)n, məʊl-/
noun

molester
noun

Origin:

late Middle English (in the sense 'cause trouble to, vex'): from Old French molester or Latin molestare 'annoy', from molestus 'troublesome'


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> I'm sure it's another one of her flights of fantasy to make this non story into something it's not but, if someone did "grab" either of my dogs, I can assure you they would only need to be told once not to do it. They wouldn't get the opportunity to "proceed to grab her."


Why do you persist in this notion that just because YOU have never experienced something, it doesn't exist? Bearing in mind that your experience consists of half the age of my current youngest dog. Basically, you've had dogs for 2 and a half years and now you know all there is to know about what it's like to take them out? I don't know if you mean to sound that way, but that's how it comes across to me.

Bear in mind also, Casey Lomonaco is an American dog trainer. She's writing about her experiences in this country which is a bit exaggerated from what you might see on the other side of the pond  
*Sweeping statement alert* Americans tend to have less decorum around dogs than our more proper anglophile cousins.
Kay Laurence is a fabulous UK dog trainer who comes here to the US for Clicker Expo. She jokes about Americans' OTT behavior around dogs.

But even on this thread. Here is a thread full of folks telling you that this indeed does happen, people do grab your dog before you get a chance to do or say anything about it. It's so fast, and weird, and unexpected - trust me, I NEVER expected someone random adult stranger would walk up to my dog and examine her teeth! 
I did yell at him, I told him to get his hands out of my dog's mouth, and it was definitely not my usual gentle and polite approach - in part from the shock of something so unexpected, and in part because I really wanted him to hurry up and get his damn hands out of my poor dog's mouth who had gone from looking surprised to annoyed. And here's the kicker - he looked offended!! Like I was being selfish for not allowing him to - yes - MOLEST my dog. 
Or when parents ask if the kids can pet the dog, and I say yes, and then it gets to be too much, or my dog is done, or I actually want to move on and continue my walk, and I say "okay, that's enough, time to go" and I get a dirty look from the adults as if I'm some big meanie for taking a plaything away from their kids.

And often, when we dog owners come to our dog's defense, you get some version of "well if your dog isn't friendly, you shouldn't bring him out in public." Uh... my dogs are very friendly, well trained, well socialized thank you. That doesn't give you or anyone else the right to take liberties with them. "Yes you may pet my dog" means you can PET. It does NOT mean stick your face in his face and make kissy noises, it doesn't mean put your miniature terrified-looking whatsamitdoodle on my dog's back, it doesn't mean stick your face in her face and bark. (The latter was actually one of the more hilarious encounters, because Breez barked back, and the idiot wasn't expecting either the bark or how loud and ferocious it sounds, and when he jumped up to back up he lost his footing and fell backwards over a log and on to his arse in front of the crowd he was trying to impress. :001_tt2

To be clear, these incidents are not the norm, a lot of people are very nice, and have lovely kids who are also very nice and well behaved. The weirdos are thankfully still a minority IME, but they do exist, and the more you get out there, the more you encounter.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Im wondering if SS has very common dogs for the area they live in?
You are much less likely to be 'molested' if you have the same dog as everybody else has! SO round here it would be Staffies and when I lived in Devon it was Border Collies. 
Try having dogs small enough that a toddler could pick them up! I think I have developed a suitably grim expression now though that seems to put quite a lot of them off!!LOL


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> And no - I'm not suggesting you politely ignore the woman *but you were still bang out of order for telling her something she's probably fully aware of and maybe not up to facing just yet.*


Why, of course.

That is a brilliant rationale for almost everything these days. You are bang on trend.

The person with the drug or alcohol dependency mowing down your loved one *- *they can't help *themselves because they can't face up to and address their addiction just yet.

The guy molesting kids - he can't help himself and can't bear to face his unfortunate inclination just yet.

People behaving dowright loopy or antisocial - they can't help themselves and face up to the effects of their behaviour just yet.

The person riddled with neuroses and phobias and screaming *like a lunatic *- just cant help themselves and and face it just yet.

In summary - as nobody can help themselves and face up to it just yet, and since grown-ups clearly can't be expected to be an actual adult and face whatever problem and issue they bring to society *- it is the duty of the rest of human kind to dispense nothing but empathy, kindness, tolerance and benevolence towards them.

Got it.*

Inconsiderate, miserable, heartless human being that I clearly am, though, I will have zero qualms to report a paedophile, or an alcoholic out on a merry drive, *nor a drug addict on a theft rampage so he can get his next fix.......nor will I feel remotely guilty for telling a hysterically screaming, grown-up woman, merely looking at a *puppy to get psychiatric help.*

If they can't face up to it just yet - SOMEBODY better do it for them.

I think we have sufficently explored and explained our opposing views. *Hence, all the best.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

Ah well, I'll politely bow out now.

It seems that I'm living in some kind of perfect dog walking hazy dreamland. I mean, Watford's not what you would call paradise, but I get nothing but joy walking around the woods, rivers, moorland (Yes, in Watford!) and tow paths with Percy and Maggie.

Must be something we're getting right.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> Im wondering if SS has very common dogs for the area they live in?
> You are much less likely to be 'molested' if you have the same dog as everybody else has! SO round here it would be Staffies and when I lived in Devon it was Border Collies.
> Try having dogs small enough that a toddler could pick them up! I think I have developed a suitably grim expression now though that seems to put quite a lot of them off!!LOL


Actually you could not have said a truer word. We rarely go out without people stopping to ask about the baby bears, stroke the baby bears, and when they realise just how the baby bears almost purr with delight, we cannot get away. They are not a breed one often sees and doggie people and non doggie people want to stop and interract with them.

I never had this trouble with my retriever.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Why, of course.
> 
> That is a brilliant rationale for almost everything these days. You are bang on trend.
> 
> ...


I think you have sufficiently explained that you view people with a dog phobia as somehow comparable to paedophiles, alcoholics, drug addicts and drunk drivers.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Ah well, I'll politely bow out now.
> 
> It seems that I'm living in some kind of perfect dog walking hazy dreamland. I mean, Watford's not what you would call paradise, but I get nothing but joy walking around the woods, rivers, moorland (Yes, in Watford!) and tow paths with Percy and Maggie.
> 
> Must be something we're getting right.


That picture has tickled me....where do I get a "bugger off weirdos" medallion for my dog? :laugh:


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Wow, nice to see those who have phobias compared to drug addicts and pedophiles and the like 

I generally dont' have a problem with people wanting to molest Spencer, he's a common enough Labrador so nothing exciting. Rupert on the other hand...I used to get stopped in the street regularly by people wanting to pet him and ask about him. In exactly the same area I live in with Spencer.


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> Ah well, I'll politely bow out now.
> 
> It seems that I'm living in some kind of perfect dog walking hazy dreamland. I mean, Watford's not what you would call paradise, but I get nothing but joy walking around the woods, rivers, moorland (Yes, in Watford!) and tow paths with Percy and Maggie.
> 
> *Must be something we're getting right.*


So those of us who are taken off guard by normal-looking people acting like loonies, doing things we could not foresee, are doing something wrong? 
Interesting take.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ouesi said:


> So those of us who are taken off guard by normal-looking people acting like loonies, doing things we could not foresee, are doing something wrong?
> Interesting take.


Must go back to the 101 of dog owning.................... Must have been doing something wrong in the last 20 odd years


----------



## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

ouesi said:


> So those of us who are taken off guard by normal-looking people acting like loonies, doing things we could not foresee, are doing something wrong?
> Interesting take.


I'm doing my best to work on looking thoroughly unapproachable, maybe those who have never had this problem have some tips for the rest of us.


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

ouesi said:


> So those of us who are taken off guard by normal-looking people acting like loonies, doing things we could not foresee, are doing something wrong?
> Interesting take.


Christ almighty. Lighten up.


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> Wow, nice to see those who have phobias compared to drug addicts and pedophiles and the like


LOL!

Sarah1983, I have read and enjoyed many of your posts....which is why I know that you are WAY to intelligent to deduce that I was actually comparing paedophilia to severe dog anxiety.

The ONLY point in listing those disparate afflictions was that "just cant face it yet" is not a convincing argument from an adult. Nor will, or should, it elicit automatic empathy or sympathy if the adult is unwilling to address their issue.

But I dare say you knew that I meant just that....


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

myshkin said:


> I think you have sufficiently explained that you view people with a dog phobia as somehow comparable to paedophiles, alcoholics, drug addicts and drunk drivers.


You forgot to mention schizophrenics  Wouldn't want to forget that people with phobias in general (but particularly dog phobias) are comparable to those nice people who hear voices and go on a murderous rampage, now, would we? :sneaky2: 

Do you know something HATEOTT (sounds appropriate, somehow) I never thought I'd say this, but I actually hope you DO suffer a "neurotic" phobia that renders you incapable of rational thought and that, for once, you lose the ability to react in a logical manner. It might just give you some empathy in what those of us who actually have suffered from a phobia, have/had to deal with.

Until then, I'll conclude that you haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

samuelsmiles said:


> Christ almighty. Lighten up.


I thought it was light hearted...the perils of the written word!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> LOL!
> 
> Sarah1983, I have read and enjoyed many of your posts....which is why I know that you are WAY to intelligent to deduce that I was actually comparing paedophilia to severe dog anxiety.
> 
> ...


Ah, well I'm one of them thickos that couldn't understand the connection...obviously you are just _far_ too clever for me to understand.

Someone was afraid of your dog approaching her. You've taken it very personally, probably because you know, really, that you shouldn't let your dog approach people uninvited. Perhaps you should face up to your projection of blame onto this woman instead of making tenuous links between fear and criminal behaviour.


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> Christ almighty. Lighten up.


Christ almighty. Grow up.

It was supposed to be lighthearted. Geez...


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Christ almighty. Grow up.
> 
> It was supposed to be lighthearted. Geez...


_*Thinks to self - is my curiosity really peaked enough to take SS off ignore and see what he's said now which justifies him suggesting that other members need to "lighten up_"* :idea: ...

Probably not.  :001_tt2:


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Well, congrats to all those people who never get pestered by loons grabbing their dog! I hope you are happy on your mainly deserted islands, with your snarling devil dogs and that the third eye and hunch arent bothering you too much!).:lol:
(joking, before anyone freaks out!).


Oh, and as to the question of phobias I have only one thing to say. If you doubt that someone cannot control themselves in the face of their fear then try moving heavy furniture with them! Your outlook will change when they scream, drop a chest of drawers on your foot (halfway up a flight of stairs!) and refuse to come back!!


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> You forgot to mention schizophrenics  Wouldn't want to forget that people with phobias in general (but particularly dog phobias) are comparable to those nice people who hear voices and go on a murderous rampage, now, would we? :sneaky2:
> 
> Do you know something HATEOTT (sounds appropriate, somehow) I never thought I'd say this, but I actually hope you DO suffer a "neurotic" phobia that renders you incapable of rational thought and that, for once, you lose the ability to react in a logical manner. It might just give you some empathy in what those of us who actually have suffered from a phobia, have/had to deal with.
> 
> Until then, I'll conclude that you haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about.


Dear LiznMillie

Not once, whilst exchanging our opposing views, did I become personally insulting.

In fact, I explicitly stated that I had no intention to either insult or annoy you. I meant it.

Not quite what you did, though, was it? You had little reservation in getting personal. Even though that my encounter with the woman hysterically screaming at my puppy wasn't with YOU.

You got the huff and took umbridge because I had the audacity to call "dog phobia" a neurosis. And a woman displaying "extreme dog phobic" behaviour "neurotic".

But just because "phobia" rolls nicer off the tongue and sounds more benign and acceptable than "neurosis" doesn't mean it isn't what it is. To repeat - a phobia is a subcategory of neuroses. Look it up. As the saying goes..a rose by any other name, is still a rose.

I wish you well in your recovery.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> LOL!
> 
> Sarah1983, I have read and enjoyed many of your posts....which is why I know that you are WAY to intelligent to deduce that I was actually comparing paedophilia to severe dog anxiety.
> 
> ...


However you meant it it's not really an appropriate comparison to make imo. A phobia is nothing like drug addiction or being a pedophile. And sadly people have been likened to child molesters on here before so....


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

moonviolet said:


> I'm doing my best to work on looking thoroughly unapproachable, maybe those who have never had this problem have some tips for the rest of us.


Get a (preferably large) 'friendly' dog and let it do what the heck it likes to whoever it likes? Although that'll only get you avoided by the over sensitive types, obviously. For everyone else pretend you are a child abuser/schizophrenic/some sort of phobic (these are all interchangeable so doesn't matter which). You'll likely get abuse for not dealing with your 'issues' but hopefully only hurled from a distance.


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> However you meant it it's not really an appropriate comparison to make imo. A phobia is nothing like drug addiction or being a pedophile. *And sadly people have been likened to child molesters on here before so...*.


Oh god, I'd forgotten about that! Why did you have to remind me?! LOL!


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Oh god, I'd forgotten about that! Why did you have to remind me?! LOL!


Lol, sorry.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> It's difficult. We had to pop into Tescos today after taking Bess for a walk. It was too hot to stay in the car, so I walked her down to the entrance whilst OH went inside.
> 
> Not one person acknowledged her. Although it was good training for her, I did feel slightly sorry for her. She loves people, and anyone could have stroked or cuddled her. But all walked by without glancing her way.
> 
> Some dogs really love to be 'molested'.


I would have asked if it was ok to say hello to her if I had been there. I do love dogs, and I can't walk past one, but I always ask permission to approach the dog, and I always respect the owner's decision.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Oh god, I'd forgotten about that! Why did you have to remind me?! LOL!


I must have missed that; do pm me!

Just wanted to say, can we keep it civil please. No need for personal insults at all, just because we all have different ideas.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> True? Really? The author really is scraping the barrel with this gem of an article.
> 
> She starts off with a ludicrous analogy and then, as I said earlier, she chucks in astonishing over exaggerations like "groping," "molesting," "causing intense pain," and "being assaulted by community members without recourse."
> 
> A thoroughly lazy piece of writing with no foundation in what _actually _happens day to day.


I personally read it as over the top too



cravensmum said:


> I think I must live in a parallel universe to most people on this thread.
> 
> I have never had kids coming up to my dogs without asking first.Even the neighbourhood kids that we see most days ask if they can clap (stroke) the dogs.
> 
> ...


I must live in your universe too - he looks cute and attracts attention, he is big but not a barker/growler so yes people approach but always ask is he ok to stroke. I don't mind one bit either :blushing:

One of his regular walks passes along side the local junior school, the children recognise him and make a fuss. God forbid some of them are playing as well and squeal and run around as young ones do. Despite all this attention the most they have done, young and old, is stroke him


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> But when it's all said and done and you had to choose between:
> 
> * an overchummy, but benevolent, dog lover?
> Or
> ...


i 'liked' your post because I agree largely with what you say, but if this woman had a phobia, then there is no way she could control her reaction - and for all you know, she may have had psychiatric help, but to no avail. Phobias are irrational by nature, and believe me they are no fun. No - when push comes to shove, it is up to us as dog owners to keep our animals away from people who cannot cope with them for whatever reason.

I don't like people touching my dogs without asking (especially children) because it is discourteous, and because a child needs to learn that some animals don't like to be touched by strangers, but if people ask I don't refuse them to opportunity to gently pet my dog. However, if someone reacted like this woman did, I would apologise and leash my dog. Just say "Didn't mean to startle you" or whatever. For all we know she might have been attacked, or seen someone else badly attacked by a dog and it has left her with a terrible fear. I think you were a little harsh.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Dear LiznMillie
> 
> Not once, whilst exchanging our opposing views, did I become personally insulting.
> 
> ...


I did.....I discovered that "neurosis" is no longer in scientific or diagnostic use. 
Always ready to learn, that's me.


----------



## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

LinznMilly said:


> You forgot to mention schizophrenics  Wouldn't want to forget that people with phobias in general (but particularly dog phobias) are comparable to those nice people who hear voices and go on a murderous rampage, now, would we? :sneaky2:


Just to point out that the majority of people with schizophrenia are not violent or a danger to others and are in fact 'nice people'. People with the condition don't need to be stigmatised or misunderstood any more than dog phobics...


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Christ almighty. Grow up.
> 
> It was supposed to be lighthearted. Geez...


Ach.....there I go again.

Ouesi, I just kind of assumed you were being patronising.

My apologies.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Just a shame that the natural reaction alot of people have to a dog phobia is completely the wrong thing to do. Ive seen many a person screaming, falpping their hands about and running around when confronted with a dog...which of course then makes them the most fascinating thing in the world for the dog!


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> Just a shame that the natural reaction alot of people have to a dog phobia is completely the wrong thing to do. Ive seen many a person screaming, falpping their hands about and running around when confronted with a dog...which of course then makes them the most fascinating thing in the world for the dog!


That's my natural reaction to dentists and wasps, think it's quite a normal human fear reaction to be honest. It's just unfortunate that it does tend to attract the attention of even normally uninterested dogs.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Sarah1983 said:


> That's my natural reaction to dentists and wasps, think it's quite a normal human fear reaction to be honest. It's just unfortunate that it does tend to attract the attention of even normally uninterested dogs.


Gruff's not normal....that kind of reaction would have him walking away, somewhat startled 

I never ran when I saw a dog, because I knew it was more likely to provoke a chase. I did get told off by one dog owner, when I was chased by her dog on my bike, and stopped when it was catching up, then used the bike to block the dog from reaching me (which it was very keen to do). When she finally caught up, she told me it was my fault for stopping! Wrong if I ran, wrong if I didn't...

It always felt that whatever I did, dog owners would blame me for the unwanted attention from their dog.....judging by some of the comments I've seen on this thread, I think I was justified in thinking that! If I'd seen this forum back then I really might not have left the house! :laugh:

ETA: her dog wasn't on my bike, poor wording!


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Dear LiznMillie
> 
> Not once, whilst exchanging our opposing views, did I become personally insulting.
> 
> ...


I "took the huff" because you have no idea what you're talking about and I actually do. I "took the huff" because you are comparing phobics to people who hear voices, paedophiles, drug/alcohol addicts and other such criminals. I took the huff because you cannot accept you were wrong in the way _you _behaved when approached by a terrified woman AND REFUSE - even now - to accept responsibility for the fact that _you allowed YOUR dog to approach a person without first asking if it was OK_. I "took the huff" because you were not - at that moment in time - in control of your dog, and YOU have the audacity to blame someone who is terrified of dogs for overreacting.

And I DID actually look up the word neurotic. Here's a link:
neurotic - definition of neurotic by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

YOU should have been in control of the dog and stopped the dog approaching someone without first ensuring the woman was OK with that approach. That's what I do. I look out for people around me. If/when I see someone coming towards me I recall the dogs and put them in a Sit-Wait and/or put them on the leash. At the same time, I read the person's body language and/or facial expression. Do they look tense? Are they making as wide a circle from my dogs as possible? Have they stopped/slowed down and hesitating to move closer? Are they fixated on my dogs as they do any of these things? If so I'll leash my dogs and move further away. But instead of taking the rap yourself, you're doing what other irresponsible owners do and blaming everyone but yourself.

Oh - and I've been over my phobia of dogs for 9 years now.

BTW - there's another N in my name - I suggest you take a closer look.


----------



## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

LinznMilly said:


> I "took the huff" because you have no idea what you're talking about and I actually do. I "took the huff" because you are comparing phobics to people who hear voices, paedophiles, drug/alcohol addicts and *other such criminals.*


Hearing voices does NOT make someone a criminal, people with addictions and even people with paedophilia are not necessarily criminals either (they have to act on their attraction to children for it to become a crime).

Why are these conditions not comparable to phobia's? They are all recognised as clinical psychiatric disorders. Why are you with a phobia (an anxiety disorder) deserving of more understanding than someone with schizophrenia?

I don't agree with Hopeattheendofthetunnel's attitude but you also need to appreciate that other groups of people you are deriding as 'criminals' and 'not comparable' can no more control certain events in their brain than someone with a phobia of dogs can.


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

samuelsmiles said:


> Ach.....there I go again.
> 
> Ouesi, I just kind of assumed you were being patronising.
> 
> My apologies.


Apology accepted 

Just some friendly advice, meant in the most genuine, non-patronising way: Often the "tone" we read in others' posts (and in-person conversations) has far more to do with our own biases and attitudes than the poster's.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

lennythecloud said:


> Hearing voices does NOT make someone a criminal, people with addictions and even people with paedophilia are not necessarily criminals either (they have to act on their attraction to children for it to become a crime).
> 
> Why are these conditions not comparable to phobia's? They are all recognised as clinical psychiatric disorders. Why are you with a phobia (an anxiety disorder) deserving of more understanding than someone with schizophrenia?
> 
> I don't agree with Hopeattheendofthetunnel's attitude but you also need to appreciate that other groups of people you are deriding as 'criminals' and 'not comparable' can no more control certain events in their brain than someone with a phobia of dogs can.


I never said hearing voices makes someone a criminal and am very well aware that they only become criminals if they act on them. However, if you go back and read HATEOTTs posts, I think you'll find she _did _make the connection between someone hearing voices and (to quote her) "stabbing you in the heart" - criminal offence.

I never said drug/alcohol addiction was a criminal offence - but - again, to refer back to HATEOTT's post, driving under the influence of alcohol/drugs - criminal offence.

I'm not even going to go anywhere _near _her regards to paedos because I have very, very passionate (and not very pleasant) thoughts about what should happen to them.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Well people come up to Cian all the time now, I have to say most people are polite about it, although we had him at the Market yesterday and some child jumped out of no where and squished his face  Gotta admit it is squishable.. I'm making the most of it because I know in a few months people won't want to pet him and that kind of makes me sad..
> 
> But I do think people should ask before petting, and be a bit more considerate about how they pet a dog, *I have to admit to being someone who has to pet peoples dogs*


Me, too - it's like a drug . . .


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> *That's my natural reaction to dentists and wasps, *think it's quite a normal human fear reaction to be honest. It's just unfortunate that it does tend to attract the attention of even normally uninterested dogs.


It's my natural reaction to dentists and parsnips (food fit for neither man not beast, in my opinion). The parsnips, that is - you can feed the dentists to lions etc if you like. See if they say "Open wide" then - Bwhahahahahaha:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:


----------



## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

LinznMilly said:


> I never said hearing voices makes someone a criminal and am very well aware that they only become criminals if they act on them.


You did not specify any violent act nor even acting on delusions, you said:

" *people who hear voices*, paedophiles, drug/alcohol addicts and *other such criminals*."

Behaviour that comes about as a result of 'voices' also does NOT make someone a criminal unless that act is committing a crime which it is often not. I really don't know how you can have such a bigoted attitude to one disorder whilst being so whilst reacting so strongly when someone doesn't understand another


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Apology accepted
> 
> Just some friendly advice, meant in the most genuine, non-patronising way: Often the "tone" we read in others' posts (and in-person conversations) has far more to do with our own biases and attitudes than the poster's.


Ouesi, you call it friendly advice for me, but I'm not as clever with words as you, so can you simplify the stuff about (my?) tone, biases and attitudes.

It would, perhaps, give me the ability to reply.


----------



## Huskylover1 (Jul 1, 2013)

Very true.Loki our husky get's lots of attention.Think i'll have too start hiding soon as 1 hr walk usually turns into a 2 hr one.


----------



## Neypanda (Jul 31, 2013)

I have a Pug and he is currently 5 months old. Which means he is the right size for people to just scoop up! I don't mind if people ASK if it's okay first, that way I can warn them to keep their nose away from him as he is still a bit nippy when excited.

A lot of people in my area seem to be afraid of Dogs even though he is tiny so we aren't stopped too many times now he isn't tiny anymore!


----------

