# Ragdoll or Ragamuffin



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi there- some of you know me as a Birman breeder - Minnii my foundation queen was diagnosed with HCM and I gave up breeding for a while. I'm ready to start again but not with Birmans - I'm liking Ragdolls but also Ragamuffins - what is your opinion on either? Especially for you Ragdoll breeders out there? I love the semi long haired and colour-points but also love solid colours, but ragamuffins are sparse and new (though now have a GCCF number (60)) and more expensive to start out with. What do you guys reckon?


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm totally biased so would say Ragdoll!!

However have you thought of Siberians or perhaps Somalis. I do think the Somalies are quite pretty. I must admit also to be a little taken by the Nebulungs and I do believe there are a couple due to come into this country very shortly. I read about them 2 or 3 years ago and there was an article in one of the cat mags last month I think saying someone here was importing them.

Would add if you want some recommendations for breeders I would be happy to provide some details!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Have thought of Sibs and Somali's - both adorable! Oh, the choices and decisions!!!! Any advice on breeders etc would be truly welcome.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2011)

Dont most breeders fall in complete love with a breed which they then decide to show / breed & improve!

I'm not a breeder, but have a Ragdoll which I think is completely gorgeous, intelligent, gentle & did I mention gorgeous


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## tylow (Feb 11, 2009)

Hey Spid, my friend breeds somali's. Full of character, clever when it comes to birthing and motherhood although stud prices can be quite expensive. Nice to see you back


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Hi Spid, we both breed and show Ragdoll cats here and can reccommend them to anyone , for someone single or those with families they really are tremendous pets, as you are aware they have the most laid back nature which some may see as a disadvantage if you like your cat to be in your face so to speak, sometimes you hardly know you have them .As for the Muffins well i do know a few breeders who within the past year have imported them from the USA and now are starting their own breeding lines, should you wish to know some names/addresses them plz pm me, What i do know about them is they come in a wider variety of colours and i believe that any eye colour is acceptable. I think to help you in your chice you would have to contact some Muffin breeders to find out exactly what they are like then you can make you decision afterall they are going to be with you for the next 15+ yrs.....good luck in your choice.........CHRIS.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

holly2009 said:


> Dont most breeders fall in complete love with a breed which they then decide to show / breed & improve!
> 
> I'm not a breeder, but have a Ragdoll which I think is completely gorgeous, intelligent, gentle & did I mention gorgeous


Yep, they do - and I did and got my fingers well and truly burnt with a very 'reputable' Birman breeder or two and much as I love the breed I can't condone certain breeding practises. Having said that I also had some absolutely wonderful Birman breeder friends who where marvellously ethical etc and I would defend them to the death. But . . . it has put me off breeding Birmans as I can't own a stud at the moment and I am dubious about some of the ancestry involved. Hence the want to continue breeding but with a different breed.

Trouble is I love a lot of cats - I have a Birman, a Birman x Siberian and a moggy; all are beautiful and wonderful. I have considered Siberian, and Somali, and Ragdoll (very Birman like) and Ragamuffins. I like semi-long haired cats with silky fur and not too large - so not Wedgies or Coonies. I like the red series - but if was going for a Somali would go for a Usual Silver. I don't like squashed faces as much - so not Persian, or jowly - so not BSH. So I have considered it.

I like the idea of the ragamuffin as I would be helping to establish a breed with the Ragdolls wonderful temperament but in a myriad of colours. I've breed before so know what I'm letting myself in for and would love to show too. Etc, etc. It's just making that actual last choice that is the sticking point.

Ho hum!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

ChinaBlue said:


> I'm totally biased so would say Ragdoll!!
> 
> However have you thought of Siberians or perhaps Somalis. I do think the Somalies are quite pretty. I must admit also to be a little taken by the Nebulungs and I do believe there are a couple due to come into this country very shortly. I read about them 2 or 3 years ago and there was an article in one of the cat mags last month I think saying someone here was importing them.
> 
> Would add if you want some recommendations for breeders I would be happy to provide some details!


I'd love to see your kitties..


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

This is Poppy, a seal mitted. I kept her from my first litter. She was spayed earlier this year. I love her to bits.


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## kelly-joy (Oct 14, 2008)

What a hard choice they are both lovely breeds of cats, I couldn't chose myself to be honest. if you are think of breeding the ragamuffins or ragdolls you should contact Chris at ragamuffin cat breeder, authentic RagaMuffins from Co Founders of the breed in the UK she used to breed ragdolls and bred the famous Blue peter cats Socs and Cookie. She has given up breeding Ragdolls and is now breeding Ragamuffins, I have always found her very helpful in the past so I would definitely talk to her.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

kelly-joy said:


> What a hard choice they are both lovely breeds of cats, I couldn't chose myself to be honest. if you are think of breeding the ragamuffins or ragdolls you should contact Chris at ragamuffin cat breeder, authentic RagaMuffins from Co Founders of the breed in the UK she used to breed ragdolls and bred the famous Blue peter cats Socs and Cookie. She has given up breeding Ragdolls and is now breeding Ragamuffins, I have always found her very helpful in the past so I would definitely talk to her.


Done - email just sent - many thanks.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

remember that there are only a few raggamuffins (genuine) breeders in the UK, and they are Nothing to do with ragdolls 

depends what you are looking for really, and your aims what you are after....I have a gorgeous girl here would have been a nice queen lol :ciappa: but shes going as a pet, lol I do like to tease! :ciappa:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> remember that there are only a few raggamuffins (genuine) breeders in the UK, and they are Nothing to do with ragdolls
> 
> depends what you are looking for really, and your aims what you are after....I have a gorgeous girl here would have been a nice queen lol :ciappa: but shes going as a pet, lol I do like to tease! :ciappa:


Cruel! So Cruel!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

spid said:


> Cruel! So Cruel!


haha :ciappa: 

Im trying to think, but I dont know anyone with kittens, well, I know one person but I dont think any are breed quality, could give them a call?

could wait for my next litter :ciappa:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> haha :ciappa:
> 
> Im trying to think, but I dont know anyone with kittens, well, I know one person but I dont think any are breed quality, could give them a call?
> 
> could wait for my next litter :ciappa:


I'm not in any rush - got all my research to do yet - you may remember I love the genetics behind all of this and what to look at all that - and the tests that are needed etc. If I'm going to do it again, I'm going to do it right again. Trouble is I can't find my pedigree database I bought and I can't remember what it is called in order to find/reinstate it on the computer (new one) -blah! Want to get the right colour too, so very willing to wait.

I am veering towards the Muffins at the moment - but costs are higher.

When did you get into Raggies - I thought you were Benglas?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

spid said:


> I'm not in any rush - got all my research to do yet - you may remember I love the genetics behind all of this and what to look at all that - and the tests that are needed etc. If I'm going to do it again, I'm going to do it right again. Trouble is I can't find my pedigree database I bought and I can't remember what it is called in order to find/reinstate it on the computer (new one) -blah! Want to get the right colour too, so very willing to wait.
> 
> I am veering towards the Muffins at the moment - but costs are higher.
> 
> When did you get into Raggies - I thought you were Benglas?


lol where have you been, got my first raggie about 2 months after my first bengal 

Im always told that pawpeds is pretty poop, if its raggamuffins, yeah for some reason the pets are about £50-100 higher than a raggie!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> lol where have you been, got my first raggie about 2 months after my first bengal
> 
> Im always told that pawpeds is pretty poop, if its raggamuffins, yeah for some reason the pets are about £50-100 higher than a raggie!


Where HAVE I been? - now that is a question - don't go there! 

Actually I think I do remember you getting your first Raggie - have they taken over from the Bengals now?

It wasn't pawpeds - something else.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Hello my lovely, where have you been keeping yourself  Missed you, you know 
So a change from Birmans but you like the long hair or I'd be pointing you towards Siamese. You could always look at Balinese :yesnod: just to add another choice However I do have to say there are some rather fabulous Ragdolls on here :001_wub: I can see the appeal of them so maybe they would be a good choice. Hope Minnie is well :yesnod:
You used Breeders Assistant pedigree software didn't you?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

lymorelynn said:


> Hello my lovely, where have you been keeping yourself  Missed you, you know
> So a change from Birmans but you like the long hair or I'd be pointing you towards Siamese. You could always look at Balinese :yesnod: just to add another choice However I do have to say there are some rather fabulous Ragdolls on here :001_wub: I can see the appeal of them so maybe they would be a good choice. Hope Minnie is well :yesnod:
> You used Breeders Assistant pedigree software didn't you?


Helloooooooo - Minnii is managing - the vet was pleased she'd made it to another year but says she won't make another. If you place your ear on her side you can hear the murmur really easily and she has an incredibly fast heart beat. At the moment she is tired but happy. Sometimes she seems to get worse but manages to pull through.

Yes - it was breeders assistant - thank goodness someone can remember these things for me!

You well?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Very good thanks :yesnod: Just taken Mai Tai off to stud (3rd litter) and got a new girl a couple of months ago. Retiring from business on Monday so life is very good at the moment - will be better when youngest son has finished his A levels and goes off to uni this September


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

spid said:


> Where HAVE I been? - now that is a question - don't go there!
> 
> Actually I think I do remember you getting your first Raggie - have they taken over from the Bengals now?
> 
> It wasn't pawpeds - something else.


lol I got her as a pet, but she was breed/show, then they tookm over my life and now it sthe world!  :ciappa:

lol how klong you been away this was years ago!!


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

I have no idea how you would choose. I'm not a breeder but I have a Somali and my friend breeds Somalis and if they are a serious consideration then I would get one or two as a pet to start with to see if you can put up with them lol, I dont mean that in a bad way, I love mine to bits but a house full of them  you wouldn't get a minute's peace!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> lol how klong you been away this was years ago!!


A good long while it seems!!!!
About 1 year or so I think


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

spid said:


> A good long while it seems!!!!
> About 1 year or so I think


I know someone with some stunning boys forsale, one is a show/breed :ciappa:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> I know someone with some stunning boys forsale, one is a show/breed :ciappa:


No - can't do boys at the moment - need a girlie.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

spid said:


> No - can't do boys at the moment - need a girlie.


lol I know  someone has some trads forsale! happytyme I think it is! Love her cats!


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Welcome back Spid! Missed you!

Can someone please tell me the different between Raggies and Muffins? They both look the same to me, both stunning! Is it just down to the colours or is their type different too?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Dozymoo said:


> Welcome back Spid! Missed you!
> 
> Can someone please tell me the different between Raggies and Muffins? They both look the same to me, both stunning! Is it just down to the colours or is their type different too?


Thank you - missed you all too - :001_wub:

Apparently .. . when what's her face started breeding ragdolls there were the two types the pointed and the solids - the pointed (mainly white) were more popular and the breed took off in the US. Apparently . .. . then a group of others carried on breeding with the solids and this is what the Ragamuffins are. They should have the same laid back attitude and should be of similar type (I believe) - I love the variation of colours that you get with RagaMuffins.:001_wub:


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

They are lovely looking cats! And it'd be nice to have lots of colour variations to work with. That's one of the reasons I love Brit's. There is so much variety!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Dozymoo said:


> Welcome back Spid! Missed you!
> 
> Can someone please tell me the different between Raggies and Muffins? They both look the same to me, both stunning! Is it just down to the colours or is their type different too?


lol how can they be the same! ragolls are a different breed, all colourpointed blue eyes, raggamuffins green eyes, and basically any colour, but also have to be laidback, not my cup of tea personally


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

''The story of the RagaMuffin begins with an accident. During the 1960s, Ann Baker, a Persian breeder, developed a friendship with a neighbour who fed and cared for a colony of feral cats. A car struck one of these cats, named Josephine, who had previously given birth to wild kittens. After Josephine returned to health, she delivered a litter of kittens that impressed people with their sweetness and sociability. Although any difference in temperament could be explained by natural variation or having different fathers, a highly unscientific theory, that the accident somehow accounted for the kittens docile nature persists to this day. Baker gathered as many of Josephine's kittens as possible and began breeding to preserve the wonderful personality of these cats that went as limp as a rag doll when cuddled. She gave the cats the angelic name Cherubim. The most well-known of Josephine's random-bred offspring were Buckwheat, a black shorthair female who resembled a Burmese, and Daddy Warbucks, a male with Birman-like points (dark face, ears, tail and legs) and mitts (white paws). Many of the Cherubim had points and mitts, but others came in a rainbow of solid colors and bi-color variations. Baker called these non-pointed and non-mitted cats Miracle Ragdolls. Determined to direct the progress of her Cherubim cats, Baker developed strict rules for anyone wishing to breed them. She alone knew the ancestry of each cat and made all breeding decisions. In 1967, a group split away from Baker's control, taking their cats to mainstream registries to show and make their own breeding choices. They chose to call their cats Ragdolls and to breed only pointed cats in three patterns. Bitter over this defection, Baker took steps to exert greater control over the development of "her" breed. She set up her own registry, the International Ragdoll Cat Association, and required all her breeders to register only with her. Baker patented the name Ragdoll for use only with cats of her breeding and registry. Catteries were franchised and paid royalties for each kitten sold. For more than 20 years, Baker's program continued, with Cherubim breeders relatively content to enjoy raising the kittens while allowing Baker to make marketing and breeding decisions. Eventually, even her loyal group developed misgivings about Baker, who struggled to keep a healthy cattery while handling the responsibilities of the registry.Her stories about the breed's origin grew increasingly strange, linking them to extraterrestrials and human-gene-implantation experiments. By 1993 a group of breeders including Janet Klarmann, Curt Gehm and Kim Clark persuaded Baker to retire and planned to take over management of the association. After a few months, however, Baker refused to relinquish control. Regretfully, the group voted to leave IRCA and seek recognition with established registries. Since their cats included all colors and patterns and they signed contracts not to use the Ragdoll name, the first crisis focused on what to call the cats, in the process of submitting a standard to American Cat Fanciers' Association. Klarmann credits Curt Gehm of Liebling Cats in Virginia with the choice of "RagaMuffin" because they came from the endearing little urchin cats of Riverside. The M is capitalized "because they're big huggable, loveable Muffins," says Janet Klarmann, who operates Encore Cattery. The new name stuck and in May 2001 the cats gained championship recognition. The American Association of Cat Enthusiasts, United Feline Organization and Cat Fanciers' Federation also recognize the breed.

From the beginning, RagaMuffin breeders have faced the challenge of gaining acceptance for their cats as a distinct breed, despite their common origins with Ragdolls. The patterns that form so important a part of the Ragdoll standard receive little emphasis from RagaMuffin breeders. They accept every color and pattern, with or without white. But the differences go deeper than that. The RagaMuffin has a distinct head shape. Rather than having a flat plane between the ears, the skull has a slight dome. The RagaMuffin has a shorter nose than the Ragdoll, and walnut-shaped eyes rather than oval. While the Ragdoll profile exhibits a gentle curve with the final segment straight, the RagaMuffin standard requires an obvious nose dip or scoop. RagaMuffin breeders aim to produce a rounded, more heavily boned cat Kim Clark, owner of Ultimate Rags cattery in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., echoes the words of other breeders when she describes the RagaMuffin's coat as texturally similar to a rabbit's coat, shorter and thicker than the Ragdoll's medium-long, silky coat. When asked about the cats' personality, Janet Klarmann, the ACFA and AACE breed committee chairperson, says, "That's the best part," using words like "wonderful" and "perfect" to describe her favorite breed. Melody, her first Cherubim, impressed her with an unhesitating sociability though she was cage-raised. "Their ideal family would probably include children," says longtime breeder Curt Gehm. "This is the kind of pet that children will remember for the rest of their lives."

Appearance  Ragamuffins are large, muscular, heavy cats that do not reach full maturity until approximately 4 years old. Females can be substantially smaller than males. The look of the body is rectangular, with a broad chest and powerful shoulders supporting a short neck. This muscular and fit cat often has a fatty pad in the lower abdomen. The head is a broad modified wedge with a rounded forehead and obvious nose dip. Large walnut shaped eyes give a sweet appearance. These longhaired cats have a dense silky coat, like that of a heavily furred rabbit, and their hair grows longer around the neck and face (a ruff), increases in length toward the stomach and gives a wispy frill on the hind legs. Every possible colour and pattern is allowable, with little emphasis placed on perfection of markings."
Personality

The only extreme allowed in this breed is its very docile nature. These cats love people and are affectionate and cuddly, with a tendency to go limp when held. They do nearly anything for a tummy rub. While not terribly athletic, they love playing, climbing scratch posts, chasing laser lights and fetching toys. They greet family members and strangers at the door.
Lifestyle

RagaMuffins remain underfoot and want involvement in what their people do. They get along well with children and other pets. Although they can adapt to a wide range of lifestyles, they are never aloof and thrive on companionship.''

taken from the ukrmcs


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## stevenco (Jan 7, 2011)

i think for a ragamuffin queen its £1200. i did email a breeder about 6 months ago to go on the waiting list for one.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

stevenco said:


> i think for a ragamuffin queen its £1200. i did email a breeder about 6 months ago to go on the waiting list for one.


yeah, i know - gasps


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

Can't beat The Raggies, but I am a little biased maybe, especially when you breed something like these:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Oh STOP IT! All of you - I haven't made my mind up yet and you keep flaunting beautiful kittens at me - it's so not fair!!!!


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

If I were you, I would go with the Ragamuffin. More interesting genetically than a colourpoint only breed and, personally, I would be wary of Ragdolls if I had a cat with HCM, wouldn't want that risk again. Even though there is one known gene that can be tested for it would be too much heartbreak for me.

We always said our second breed when we have the space would be Somalis at some point in the future. Only thing that concerns me with them is whether the kitten buyers are there for a 'rarer' breed like Somali. No point breeding if there are no homes.

Sorry to hear about Minnii


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

messyhearts said:


> If I were you, I would go with the Ragamuffin. More interesting genetically than a colourpoint only breed and, personally, I would be wary of Ragdolls if I had a cat with HCM, wouldn't want that risk again. Even though there is one known gene that can be tested for it would be too much heartbreak for me.
> 
> We always said our second breed when we have the space would be Somalis at some point in the future. Only thing that concerns me with them is whether the kitten buyers are there for a 'rarer' breed like Somali. No point breeding if there are no homes.
> 
> Sorry to hear about Minnii


my friend breeds & shows soms and has never had a problem homing them.

thing is if you go to a goopd breeder who tests then I think your fine, also if the raggmuffin started out as the ragdoll then they have to hcm test to, and pkd as Im sure persians are in there plus siberians and another breed?

Id rather for for a maine coon or norwegian forest! :001_wub:


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> my friend breeds & shows soms and has never had a problem homing them.
> 
> thing is if you go to a goopd breeder who tests then I think your fine, also if the raggmuffin started out as the ragdoll then they have to hcm test to, and pkd as Im sure persians are in there plus siberians and another breed?
> 
> Id rather for for a maine coon or norwegian forest! :001_wub:


It's a possibility with Ragamuffins but with Ragdolls it is a fact that the breed has HCM. It would put me off if I was in Spid's shoes, is all. It would put me off Maine Coons, too. Just my own personal thought on the matter.

I'm sure homing Somali babies is a doddle given how adorable they are.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

messyhearts said:


> It's a possibility with Ragamuffins but with Ragdolls it is a fact that the breed has HCM. It would put me off if I was in Spid's shoes, is all. It would put me off Maine Coons, too. Just my own personal thought on the matter.
> 
> I'm sure homing Somali babies is a doddle given how adorable they are.


but then all breeds have something, bengals now hcm, NFC now hcm, persians pkd british pkd... doesnt mean that your baby will get it, just go to a good breeder who tests and dose there best!

I thought you had raggies?!


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

messyhearts said:


> If I were you, I would go with the Ragamuffin. More interesting genetically than a colourpoint only breed and, personally, I would be wary of Ragdolls if I had a cat with HCM, wouldn't want that risk again. Even though there is one known gene that can be tested for it would be too much heartbreak for me.
> 
> We always said our second breed when we have the space would be Somalis at some point in the future. Only thing that concerns me with them is whether the kitten buyers are there for a 'rarer' breed like Somali. No point breeding if there are no homes.
> 
> Sorry to hear about Minnii


I think the buyers are out there, my friend breeds them has a long waiting list for hers.

Just be careful who you get one from, especially for breeding, make sure they are PKD and PRA tested, there are quite a few breeders who seem to be in denial about PRA because of one cat so wont test their lines for it.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

No, I have Birmans.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

messyhearts said:


> No, I have Birmans.


ahhh that it! sorry im very tired at the mo   

do you have to test them for anything?


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> ahhh that it! sorry im very tired at the mo
> 
> do you have to test them for anything?


Well, no and yes.

I have tested my girl for PKD since there was Persian outcrossing in the past but it isn't a BIRMAN thing. Also blood groups... Nothing else really except for HCM but any breed can get that and there are no genes for a DNA test.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

you say that you dont want to breed a large breed, well ragdolls can be big. i had a neuter boy of 17 years and in his prime weighed in at 21 lbs. i also own a ragdoll boy now who weighs about 16lbs and is on par with my wegie boy, so ragdolls can be big, at least they should be


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> remember that there are only a few raggamuffins (genuine) breeders in the UK, and they are Nothing to do with ragdolls
> 
> depends what you are looking for really, and your aims what you are after....I have a gorgeous girl here would have been a nice queen lol :ciappa: but shes going as a pet, lol I do like to tease! :ciappa:


tb ragamuffins come from the same ancestors as the ragdolls


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jenny armour said:


> tb ragamuffins come from the same ancestors as the ragdolls


yes I know but they have had other breeds crossed into them


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> yes I know but they have had other breeds crossed into them


ragdolls have ragamuffins i dont know about


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

i personally would go for a wegie if i was to breed.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jenny armour said:


> ragdolls have ragamuffins i dont know about


lol I dont get what you mean, the raggamuffin is a completly seperate breed to the ragdoll, they broke away and crossed them with other breeds to expand the gene pool, IVe read that it was persians, siberians etc


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

i'm saying that ragdolls were outcrossed years ago with persians and siamese, but that they originally had the same ancestry as the ragamuffin


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I thought Ragdolls had 'all sorts' mixed in (as with many breeds), in the early days? Not much different to Ragamuffins surely?

OP, I wouldn't know where to start with semi-longhair breeds; I love almost all of them  I used to be drawn to the more instantly recognisable colour/pattern pedigree cats but I definitely have a preference - purely going on looks though I know there are other considerations - for a more individual/unique look such as MC's or Norwegians.. oh and Ragamuffins; so pretty.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

i know that if you go to a reputable breeder of wegies then you will get a cat whose lines will originate from the skandinavian countries, and there is no outcrossing


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jenny armour said:


> i'm saying that ragdolls were outcrossed years ago with persians and siamese, but that they originally had the same ancestry as the ragamuffin


ahh not all were though, I think they mostly used balanese!


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

no there are still the traditionals. some breeders were against outcrossing only wanting their cats bred with traditional ragdolls ie seals and blues. some of the 'new' colours were brought about by outcrossing with persians and siamese to get the red cream etc and then crossed back to some traditionals for their temperement.
i often the early days of this saw outcrossed raggies with green eyes.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

gskinner123 said:


> I thought Ragdolls had 'all sorts' mixed in (as with many breeds), in the early days? Not much different to Ragamuffins surely?
> 
> OP, I wouldn't know where to start with semi-longhair breeds; I love almost all of them  I used to be drawn to the more instantly recognisable colour/pattern pedigree cats but I definitely have a preference - purely going on looks though I know there are other considerations - for a more individual/unique look such as MC's or Norwegians.. oh and Ragamuffins; so pretty.


no not all sorts! qutie strict actually! they are alot different to ragamuffins! I dont like people saying they are the same!  Im sure they are lovely cat, IVE seen some lovely ones, but just not for me, they look like any other cat  

I prefer the MCS or NFC myself 

here you go:

http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/ragamuffin-cat.html

http://www.ukrmcs.co.uk/Origins.html


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> no not all sorts! qutie strict actually! they are alot different to ragamuffins! I dont like people saying they are the same!  Im sure they are lovely cat, IVE seen some lovely ones, but just not for me, they look like any other cat
> 
> I prefer the MCS or NFC myself
> 
> ...


You misunderstood me  I meant they are the same inasmuch as different breeds were used to create the Ragdoll and Ragamuffin; i.e. neither are 'pure' breed cats... and I know Ragamuffins look distinctly different to a Ragdoll - even with my failing eyesight!

I think I'm just drawn to the individuality of some of the longhair breeds and the Ragamuffin and NFC in particular. I DO love Ragdolls too but just find that when I'm at shows and looking at a row of the same colour/pattern of RD's (or, say, British Blues come to that)... well, all I'm saying is my eye gets drawn to the cats with unique colours/pattern... particularly a lovely semi-longhair moggie


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

gskinner123 said:


> You misunderstood me  I meant they are the same inasmuch as different breeds were used to create the Ragdoll and Ragamuffin; i.e. neither are 'pure' breed cats... and I know Ragamuffins look distinctly different to a Ragdoll - even with my failing eyesight!
> 
> I think I'm just drawn to the individuality of some of the longhair breeds and the Ragamuffin and NFC in particular. I DO love Ragdolls too but just find that when I'm at shows and looking at a row of the same colour/pattern of RD's (or, say, British Blues come to that)... well, all I'm saying is my eye gets drawn to the cats with unique colours/pattern... particularly a lovely semi-longhair moggie


ahh read those links they show how the breed parted, they were all ragdolls untill it split, but they arent raggies since that happened, the link shows you when it happened.

They just look like any other cat to me  But I have seen some really stunning ones, one that made me want one! cant find her website now, typical!


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi there, I don't want to offend anyone but apart from the obvious colour differences, the two breeds do look very similar to me. I obviously don't know much about either breed ( I really like all SLH's) and i'd be very interested to know what other characteristics are used to tell them apart. 

For example, if you put a blue colourpoint ragdoll and a blue colourpoint ragamuffin next to each other where would you see the physical differences?


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2011)

Dozymoo said:


> Hi there, I don't want to offend anyone but apart from the obvious colour differences, the two breeds do look very similar to me. I obviously don't know much about either breed ( I really like all SLH's) and i'd be very interested to know what other characteristics are used to tell them apart.
> 
> For example, if you put a blue colourpoint ragdoll and a blue colourpoint ragamuffin next to each other where would you see the physical differences?


Hi, top of page 4 tells you 

I prefer the look of the ragdolls


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

holly2009 said:


> Hi, top of page 4 tells you
> 
> I prefer the look of the ragdolls


How the heck did I miss that post!?! Sorry, and thanks Spid and Holly!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Dozymoo said:


> How the heck did I miss that post!?! Sorry, and thanks Spid and Holly!


lol! - I do that - too many posts to scan

basic differences are . . .
''Slight cranial doming and rounded skull between the ears (Ragdoll calls for flat plane between the ears).
Ears tipped forward as if listening (Ragdoll ears are flared and to the side).
Large Walnut shaped eyes (Ragdoll calls for almond shaped eyes)
Recognized in all colors and patterns. (Ragdoll are accepted in 4 colors and 3 patterns).
Concavity to the nose, giving the impression of a scoop (Ragdoll calls for slope).
Coat medium to medium long. Their coats tend to be a little shorter, thicker and very plush, like that of a rabbit. (Ragdoll breeds for moderately long coat, very silky and fine)
RagaMuffins have an overall balance to their bodies, just as wide in front as in back, but can have a little wider chest. Ragdolls call for a wider hind quarters than their front. 
RagaMuffins have a chubbier, cherub face where ragdolls have a longer more sophisticated look to their faces. RagaMuffins want a round look to their heads where ragdolls call for a modified wedge with a longer muzzle than the RagaMuffins. '' taken from a US site but hey - I can only research so much at 9am on a Saturday with a Migraine coming on!


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for that! I do like lots of colour variety in my cats. So I can understand why the Ragamuffin appeals to you. Best of luck making a decision!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Well, so far it's now a toss up between ragamuffins and siberians! Definitely decided on the solid coat coloured cats.

Many thanks for all your input - I do realise both breeds are large - but they aren't too big and I just love their looks. 

Haven't contacted any Sib breeders yet, any one know of any?


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Not in your neck of the woods. Good choice, though. Don't think there is a wrong choice in SLH breeds.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

there is one near me and funnily enough she also breeds ragdolls, even though i know you have now elimated them


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