# Can't cope with puppy :(



## babytarragon (Dec 28, 2010)

I don't know what to do, I cannot cope with my 14 week Cockapoo puppy. She is vicious towards me but will not stop barking if I leave her sight.

I have previously helped bring up a Westie, Basset Hound and Bulldog puppies so I have got experience of puppy behaviour, but I just can't cope with this.

She's absolutely adorable as you can see but I find myself wishing I'd never got her- and then hate myself for it 









She bites me so hard it makes me bleed, and my cries of pain and yelps spur her on, she will bark at me and try to bite me again. She snaps at my legs from behind when my back is turned, so turning away makes it worse. Sometimes she sneaks up on me and bites me. Since sounds of pain didn't work I tried growling at her but this was a provocation too. Now literally the only thing I can do is scruff her, which I don't like to do. I've never had a puppy before who is completely unbothered by signs the human is unhappy with them.

Aside from attacking me she barks at night for up to an hour when she is left. We've had her for nearly five weeks and she has always been put in the kitchen alone to sleep, we have never changed the routine but she has never adjusted. Same goes when we leave the room, she will keep barking until we come back. She is frequently left two hours at a time when I'm at work and between dog sitter coming in. She is walked once or twice a day.

I'm really desperate. I don't know what use posting here is, I don't know what I'm hoping for really, I just don't know what to do because I can't stand the thought of starting to hate my puppy


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

Firstly, just want to offer you some reassurance, it's all normal behaviour and sometimes even seasoned dog owners struggle 

Don't feel bad, lot's of people go through the 'puppy blues' when you're tired and frustrated and see no light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm not an expert in dog training, so I'll leave the advice for the more experienced members but just felt your pain in the post.
I could suggest maybe puppy classes, you may find lots of other owner experiencing very similar things and sometimes having a good old rant and realising you're not alone is very beneficial.

Do keep going, it does get better 

BTW, she's a beautiful little pup, clearly spirited.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

It might seem awful now but it WILL get better!

When she bites DON'T yelp or make noises as this can encourage the behaviour because they think it's a game, instead tell her "NO" in a firm voice and put her in time out. She will soon learn that biting = no attention!

Is she crate trained?


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## babytarragon (Dec 28, 2010)

Thank you for the support. I'm taking her to her first puppy party next week.

I do think she's going to grow up to be a wonderful dog; she's smart and vibrant. But it's so hard not seeing any progress at all in five weeks 

edit: She's isn't crate trained, she was hurting herself banging around in the crate and I admit it frightened me.


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## Beth17 (Jun 5, 2012)

The puppy blues are perfectly normal. I still have them every now and then and my boy is 6 months old. It does get better and if you keep leaving her little and often with things such as kongs then she should get used to being left and the nipping will definitely get better.

You'll get there in the end


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

Been there, done that. 
My doberman puppy had me in tears on several occasions in those first few months. He, too, bit me hard enough to draw blood, seemingly constantly. Puppies have needle sharp teeth, they don't have to put much pressure on to nick the skin or scratch it. I looked like a self harmer for quite a while. 
Never malicious, never snarling, never growling, just total over exuberant play.

And, like your pup, squealing at him just ramped him up and got him excited and he came back harder. This isn't uncommon, despite how often this method is touted as being the best one; the squealing method is only useful if your dog responds to it in the way you hope! A lot of dogs don't, and won't ever.
Dresden still doesn't, at 9 months. A squeal, or loud noise, does nothing but excite him.
I put it down to him being a high drive, working puppy, which Im sure doesn't help. But its really not unusual.

Dresden, too, didn't give a monkey's whether I was unhappy with him or not. He really didn't 'get' that kind of understanding until he was about 7 months old. Prior to that, he couldn't care less if I was annoyed, hurt, or bawling on the staircase. 
I remember once being in tears over him (sleep deprived, bitten constantly, forever cleaning up poo and wee, you know the deal) and I was sitting bawling and he came up to me, and I thought 'I wonder if he will know Im sad, like we're always told dogs do'. 
He instead latched onto my calf and thought it was all a huge game. 
I don't think its unusual for young pups to not realise, or not care, whether you're upset. Young kids sometimes don't either; they're too self absorbed. Not in a malicious way, they just don't have that kind of brain development to empathise!
I, too, had many moments of 'can I cope? What am I doing wrong? Why won't he respond to the methods everyone is telling me to use? Whats wrong with my puppy? Do I even have the ability to raise this dog properly?'
Didn't help with me that he was my first ever puppy, so I had no comparison to know what was normal and what wasn't.

I feel your pain with the barking when left. I was always very grateful that Dresden adjusted to his crate, and being left, quite early and relatively painlessly, as I think that would have been a huge issue for me if he'd not (we have very close neighbours!)

All I can say is that 14 weeks was one of the most intense times for me, too, one of the times I had the most doubts.

It DOES get better. Dres is 9 months now. He no longer bites constantly. He'll still mouth sometimes when over excited, but the bloodied, wounded hands and legs are long in the past. 
All dogs are different. Not all learn at the same speed, or in the same way. Dres was about 5-6 months before I noticed the old bite inhibition thing beginning to click, and we worked hard at it, every day. It just didn't hit home with him until he was more mature.

Have you tried a time out when you get nipped? Putting the puppy out of the room, or leaving the room yourself? Puppies hate being ignored. I still use this method on Dres now when he gets mouthy. 
You do have to keep at it, so they get the idea that 'if I bite, all fun stops and everyone goes away' or 'I get put out on my own'.


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## babytarragon (Dec 28, 2010)

She's resting on my arm licking me right now, it's like she knows o_o

How do you balance dog + rats? I think that's one of the things I'm finding hardest, I really miss my rats. I have to be with the puppy in the other room for them to free range


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Yelping depends on if they have learnt bite inhibition with mum and littermates. In the litter they bark chase bite and play games in play and to instigate play. If one bites the other too hard and the pup yelps in pain then they should learn to cease, Mum will also reprimand when they get too rough and over the top too usually, but if they havent learnt the lessons there then yelping doesnt help, in fact it can spur some pups on to do it more.

A lot of it is probably attention seeking any form of acknowledgement can reward it, it can be looking at them, talking to them, trying to push them down, anything like that is still attention and rewards it. If they think they have got a response then they will do it to get more.

Try doing some training with her if you havent already using praise and treats when she gets it right, 2 or 3 short 10/15 minute sessions a day so they dont get bored usually works best. Also mix it with some play chasing after a toy or ball, that should get rid of pent up energy too. Teach her the basics of sit wait down come when called etc praising and rewarding when she does. 
Training uses up mental and physical energy as well, gets them to focus on you and once you have some basic commands in place it should help in general with control of her. Start getting her to sit wait and focus for anything she wants and anything you give her too that should help with impulse control too. Cheese, chicken, hotdogs, sausages anything liver based cut up as little treats for doing as she is asked usually goes down well.

You might be leaving it too long before she gets hyper exciteable and nippy before you try to rectify the behaviour, timing is important wait until they are too hyped or into the biting and its harder still to stop them and get them to re-focus and carry out alternative behaviour you do want.

Giving her stuffed Kongs, other forms of treat toys and safe chews should also get rid of mental and physical energy and give her something to self amuse with and take out the bitey behaviour on instead of you. Here is some ideas
Recipes - Kong

Busy Buddy Twist-n-Treat - YouTube

https://www.antlerdogchews.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=140

If she is on wet food you can give some of her meals in the Kong, if she is on Kibble you can put them in the busy buddy so she has to work for her meals giving her stimulation and keeping her occupied. These are good too if on kibble 
Buster DogMaze - YouTube

On the subject of food, what is she on? some foods can send pups into orbit hyper wise so that might be worth looking at too.

If you see her start to get hyper pop her out to calm down in another room, and leave her with something to take it out on if necessary, then when she is calm let her out, but say and do nothing ignore her totally until she remains calm, then call her get her to sit and do a few commands treating when shes calm and does them. If she starts again straight out and do the whole thing over again and keep repeating it, biting nipping behaviour gets her nothing but doing as asked and calm behaviour gets praise attention and rewards. You need to be consistent and keep doing it some pups get it quicker then others.

You need to start getting her used to having periods of self amusement and rest on her own when you are in and build the time up. Things that can get them to settle are leaving an old tshirt or jumper you have worn in her bed as having your smell still can settle them. Leaving a radio on a talking station turned down low too can help rather then silence. Pups sleep touching and on top of each other in the litter, so leaving a large soft toy or a couple of smaller ones in their bed can settle them as its something to cuddle up too.Having a baby gate on the door can be better then a closed solid door as they dont feel so isolated but they are still kept separate from you.
Adaptil dog appeasing pheromone diffusers can help calm them to read more on these
Adaptil - Adaptil
Ar night depending on what you do now, some pups sleep better in darkness, others do better with a baby night light, but dont leave bright lights on it can stimulate them wide awake, see what she settles best with darkness or a very dim light.

Set up her area and give her periods of down time, always leave her with something like a Kong or similar it makes a good association with being left too and gives them something to do. Just take her there give it to her and walk away no fuss no goodbyes anything. At first you need to return before she starts to get vocal even if its for just a minute but let her out and apart from this say and do nothing totally ignore her, then you can call her to you get her to sit and praise and treats. Gradualyl build the time up.

Hope theres some ideas there you can use to make it easier.


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## toryb (Jul 11, 2011)

We got Millie at 14 weeks and she too barked the entire time we wernt in the room or when we left her (she was/is crate trainned...although we no longer use it for her). At the time it was awful and I used to get so worried about going out...but I stuck with it..left the house everyday...same routine...when i got back in I ignored her while she was barking and as soon as she calmed down I went and let her out the crate and gave her lots of praise 

The puppy days are HARD! but it gets so much better...Millie is 1 today and when we go out she just goes and sleeps on our bed...no barking/whining/messing or anything.

Mouthing was a nightmare too..we have small children and she would get so excited when they were being loud/excited etc and it would be worse then...I taught them to tell her a firm NO when she did something 'wrong' and we soon got over it..i never thought it would pass but it did 

((hugs)) she is adorable and it WILL get better 

ETA we have a 5 month old foster pup at the moment (staffi cross) she is amazing in the crate, never barks when I go out or anything but the mouthing...ohhh the mouthing...it HURTS! her teeth are like pins and she has got my chin and few times too! Little monkey but I know that too shall pass...


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Just to say, when we got Pip, we put her into the crate (the afternoon after we got her) and she barked for ages!
We just covered the crate up and left her to get on with it. She stopped crying after a few hours.
She only cries now when she needs the toilet


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Just wanted to assure you that we've been there too, plenty of us on here have, so you're not alone


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2012)

Hang in there,I'm sure you will get a lift in spirit and support from the classes you are going to attend, she will be a cracking dog in the end it just sounds like she's going to make you work for it.


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## Sarah+Hammies (Jul 20, 2009)

CavalierOwner said:


> It might seem awful now but it WILL get better!
> 
> When she bites DON'T yelp or make noises as this can encourage the behaviour because they think it's a game, instead tell her "NO" in a firm voice and put her in time out. She will soon learn that biting = no attention!
> 
> Is she crate trained?


My pup went through a very persistent jumpy, bitey stage around 5-6 months, he has stopped doing it now. I used a firm 'AH-AH' and put him in the kitchen behind a stair gate ignoring him for 10 minutes.

Being ignored to a pup is the worst, they much prefer to be around you being praised for good things than to be put elsewhere and be ignored! He still gets time outs when he is being a pest which soon calms him down.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

My parents went through this when we had our puppy benji. He was a nightmare beyond words!! He'd cry to be picked up as he coudn't get onto the sofa and he'd let you pick him up and place him on the sofa he'd quickly turn around and bite your hands and drawer blood. It did get better. She doesn't realise she is hurting you. She is a baby and in time she will learn!!


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## rudy blue (Oct 1, 2012)

Hi, I've got a little cockerpoo, he's also 14 weeks and looks just like yours, he is just the same although doesn't bark when he's left, he loves his crate luckily, however he goes mad at me barking and growling whenever I tell him off, spoke to someone today who told me its the poodle in them, how true that is I don't know, they should also be losing their baby teeth soon as well, yay. I think I have aged 10 years in the 3 weeks I've had him and spent the first week mostly crying wondering what on earth I had done lol, but he is now laying beside me like a little angel and feel things are and will get easier, hope you're feeling better as I know how hard it is.:sneaky2:


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

dandogman said:


> Just to say, when we got Pip, *we put her into the crate (the afternoon after we got her) and she barked for ages!*
> We just covered the crate up and left her to get on with it. She stopped crying after a few hours.
> She only cries now when she needs the toilet


OMG! I couldn't in a million years leave any puppy of mine to bark in a crate - and then cover it.  Especially as everything was so new and different for him/her.


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## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

babytarragon said:


> She's resting on my arm licking me right now, it's like she knows o_o
> 
> How do you balance dog + rats? I think that's one of the things I'm finding hardest, I really miss my rats. I have to be with the puppy in the other room for them to free range


Don't worry too much about that. Puppies are hugely time consuming for the first few months but they do settle down and you'll be able to get stuff done again.

My rats got a bit neglected when I first brought Rio home but I timed their free range for just after some intense puppy play and used her naps to spend time with them.

Rattie free range will eventually become a great opportunity for your pup to practice spending time alone since you'll only be in another room.

Chin up, I know its really tough now but it will get better.. promise


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

I'll give you an example of how it CAN and WILL get better as long as you keep up teaching pupster

We are looking after a nearly 6 month old husky, she is not house trained, is babied at home, they hand feed her, she cries at everything, has no manners, knows no basic comands, can't walk on a lead as she sits down the whole time and chews her lead and they do not do any discipling.

Harvey we got at 8 weeks old, was crate trained from day one, house trained in 2 weeks, knew all basic commands in a few weeks, we taught him manners and he most certainly has never been babied. He doesn't and has never been a crier and understands discipling.

It does get better, we have all had the puppy blues at some point, but if you keep it up then you will end up with a well behaved and well rounded dog and not an attention seeking unruley dog like Radley properly will end up as.


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## izzie4037 (Oct 3, 2012)

i used to work with gang members/drug dealers/drug addicts/prison rehabilitationers etc.. in south london, I could get their attention and their respect, I could also reduce them to tears, and have them begging for mercey as I dragged them up mountains and lowered them down cliffs etc..

But a puppy? I was at my wits end at about 6months, he kept being a **** no matter what I tried! Which in turn reduced me to tears and feeling like I was about to take him back!ARGGHH 

Honestly, I still have ocasional grr moments, but it does get better I promise!

one thing I use its (He knows what all of his toys are called, and what getting the post means etc) wheres your .....? go get it!!! or wheres dad? find him!!!
this seems to work 80% of the time and he trots off to do that instead of munching at my ankles when I try to walk inside after play, or attacking my long cardies. maybe try that?


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

I promise you it will get better, as long as you are consistent with her. She needs to know that what she is doing is wrong, so when she does do it she gets no attention from you at all, therefore biting gets no attention so i wont do it anymore  dont give up yet


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Just to say, when we got Pip, we put her into the crate (the afternoon after we got her) and she barked for ages!
> We just covered the crate up and left her to get on with it. She stopped crying after a few hours.
> She only cries now when she needs the toilet


I dont understand why you would do this but okay


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

dandogman said:


> Just to say, when we got Pip, we put her into the crate (the afternoon after we got her) and she barked for ages!
> We just covered the crate up and left her to get on with it. She stopped crying after a few hours.
> She only cries now when she needs the toilet


Oh my goodness. OP please do not do that with your pup! A few hours leaving a puppy to cry imho is so inappropriate

OP have you spoken to your pups breeder....she will know that puppy inside out and can probably offer some advice.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

chichi said:


> Oh my goodness. OP please do not do that with your pup! A few hours leaving a puppy to cry imho is so inappropriate
> 
> OP have you spoken to your pups breeder....she will know that puppy inside out and can probably offer some advice.


Its like leaving a new baby in a cot to cry it out


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

tashax said:


> Its like leaving a new baby in a cot to cry it out


Exactly..... and it worries me when people put advice like that on the internet in case anybody thinks its actually cool advice.....


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

chichi said:


> Exactly..... and it worries me when people put advice like that on the internet in case anybody thinks its actually cool advice.....


I wouldnt be able to do it anyway, i like new babies to be able to feel safe in a crate, not see it as somewhere they are going to be locked in


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

chichi said:


> Oh my goodness. OP please do not do that with your pup! A few hours leaving a puppy to cry imho is so inappropriate
> 
> OP have you spoken to your pups breeder....she will know that puppy inside out and can probably offer some advice.


Cant agree more, it can seriously backfire, the OP may have got away with it, but if you have a pup whos never seen or been in a crate, is already stressed on leaving mum and littermates and finding themselves in a strange place alone, and is a more nervous or unconfident pup especially, some can seriously freak out not just bark a bit.

Pups always need to be introduced to a crate gradually and trained to accept it so they see it as a place of safety and somewhere nice to be. Granted some will take to it like a duck to water others will need patience and gradual training before they are happy, but you should always start slowly and gently regardless if they have never seen or been in one before.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

babytarragon said:


> How do you balance dog + rats? I think that's one of the things I'm finding hardest, I really miss my rats. I have to be with the puppy in the other room for them to free range


They don't meet, not without sturdy bars between them. 
Because I have so many rats, they have a custom built shed outside that they live in (heated, screen doors for hot weather, just the rat's own place) and Dresden doesn't really get to go in there. He is allowed to have a pad about in there if Im there too, but mainly because he hoovers up spilt rat food off the floor which doesn't tend to agree with his stomach  I remember once turning my back on him in the shed and he grabbed a big end bit of wholemeal bread I was going to give to the rats, and it was gone in two chomps. 
His poo was NOT fun to clear up after that!
So thats mainly why he isn't allowed in there. But when he is, he really only just looks at the rats through the bars, they look at him, he might whine or cry, sit down and tilt his head in a kind of 'what ARE they?!' way, then get bored.

I'd never, ever in a million years let him be around one that wasn't safely in its cage; I can't understand people who do mix their predator and their prey.

For free ranging, its simple. The rats come indoors and free range on my bed, Dres goes in his crate for the time that Im doing this. No problems


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## babytarragon (Dec 28, 2010)

tashax said:


> I wouldnt be able to do it anyway, i like new babies to be able to feel safe in a crate, not see it as somewhere they are going to be locked in


This is why I haven't crate trained her, I haven't managed to get her to trust the crate enough to leave the door shut.

it's now 2am and barking is not letting up @[email protected]


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## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

babytarragon said:


> This is why I haven't crate trained her, I haven't managed to get her to trust the crate enough to leave the door shut.
> 
> it's now 2am and barking is not letting up @[email protected]


Poor you, I know how frustrating it must be. 

Just keep telling yourself "This too shall pass!" because it won't be forever. Stay strong.. we're here for ya


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

babytarragon said:


> This is why I haven't crate trained her, I haven't managed to get her to trust the crate enough to leave the door shut.
> 
> it's now 2am and barking is not letting up @[email protected]


I always tell pup owners to make the crate the pups den....comfy bed...safe toys and chewies....water in a coop cup...so it cant be knocked over....and only put a pup in a crate that has been exercised adequately and feeling safe. Crate should be next to owners bed until the pup is happy and then gradually moved to the place you eventually are going to keep the pup at night. Thats how Ive always done it....and its never taken longer than 3 nights to have the pup sleeping like a log. You will get there...just time and lots of patience...it DOES get easier


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

To be honest people, it worked, it is not like leaving a baby crying, since when were DOGS human babies? This is why there are so many problems with dogs these days.

Oh and for everyones information, she loves her crate.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Use timeouts. Don't scruff her. That can give way for a dog who might turn around and bite you one day when you attempt to do it again.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

my dogs love the crate but the door is always open toys in there too its their little den to them i think
when pups i used to crate them at night but the crate was next to my bed so they could see me i left a nightlight on too puppy training will make all the difference i would think.
maybe later on clicker training would be a good idea too especially with treats when they do something good .
its hard having a puppy though but like others said it does get better


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Not read the whole thread but heres my two cents...

Charlie did the same thing in the crate - he got so stressed out he'd bang against the door and I was worried he'd hurt himself. This was in his first week at home, so I moved the crate to my bedroom and although he cried about not being able to get to me, he did settle down and after a few weeks I was confident that he'd be ok in his crate downstairs. 

Charlie was also very attached to me - some dogs just are like that - and I had to build him up over the course of a year to leave him alone without him being stressed. I worked from home so this was an option not many people have, I admit. 

I did find that leaving him with his kong wobbler or other treat based toys where he has to chase them around the house improved the situation when he was alone (I know as I filmed him to track out progress). 




As for the nipping - you're in a tough spot. When a dog sees being left alone as a punishment, it can make their separation from your worse. So I tried this: Whenever Charlie nipped me I ignored it, showed him a treat and made him sit and stay to earn it. This provided a distraction from the nipping, and rewarded him for the good behaviour. Then (with treats if needed) I kept him sat and sat beside him. I stroked his chest calmly in a slow circular motion and told him he was being good. The idea was to calm him down, to stop the negative behaviour escalating and to turn it into a positive situation. 

If the nipping continues then you need to be careful with the rewards and you have no choice but to put them in a time out. But then you have to work hard on the separation issue. If theres somewhere the puppy could be confined with you in the same room ignoring them, that would be better.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I had a dreadful nipper. I ended up wearing willies in the house to give my ankles a rest! 

It's a phase, a nasty one, but it does end. Mine took to 17 weeks when I suddenly realised I was cuddling my pup without being bitten.


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## Diesel the Crazy Dal (Jun 11, 2012)

OP, it does get better - i have been in tears of frustration and tiredness some days because i feel like its never going to get better.

I do have a 20+ kg puppy that thinks its 2kg and nips still but the crying/barking have calmed. They have to learn that bad behaviour does not give them your attention, however you get that across. 

There is some good advise here, i hope you get there soon with it


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Does she have to sleep downstairs in the kitchen? Call me a softie but I value a good nights sleep and my pup slept in my room from day one.. we put a crate up by the side of the bed, left the door open and then used the wall, bed and a grill type thing to make hime a little run outside that.

He grizzled for about half hour then went to sleep and then slept through after that

Well until about 5am when we had wee break then back to bed.

Theres nothing like continual disturbed nights sleep that makes things feel alot less copable with.

My pup wasn't too much ofa nipper, but there was a definate pattern to his nipping based around being over exctied and or tired. He would go mad when I got home from work and tried to leap up and hang off my arms police dog style or rip at my clothes - I kept a toy by the front door to shove in his mouth as soon as I got home so he was carrying that about proudly couldn't be destroying me


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## Rah (Sep 26, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your puppy blues 

We have all been there though, not to worry.

George still gets a little over excited when playing and nips - and it hurts.

George didn't like the crate at first either. However with a little time, patience and routine he enjoys it as much as he does the sofa, or his own dog basket.

We use the crate when we go out, when we go to sleep and when we are eating. We use lots of praise when he goes in (even when he goes in on his own just for a sniff) & when he comes out of the crate

Although.. in the morning he never wants to get out now anyway 

George is starting to pick up on the no biting thing. He'll start, then when he gets a warning for doing it, he'll start licking instead as if he wasn't doing anything wrong anyway. 

I hope that your little pup gets the hang of things soon. 

Remember every pup is different and I'm sure that she will bring you a lot of happiness in the future 

Best of luck!

SJ


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## babytarragon (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks everyone for letting me know i'm not alone!

I realise my first puppy was pretty unique, and the others of course had an older dogs company, so it would have been easier.

I'm at work running on 4 hours sleep, wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't night after night... Gah.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

BessieDog said:


> I had a dreadful nipper. I ended up wearing _willies_ in the house to give my ankles a rest!


 Really? Poor blokes! Sorry, couldn't resist


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

dandogman said:


> To be honest people, it worked, it is not like leaving a baby crying, since when were DOGS human babies? This is why there are so many problems with dogs these days.
> 
> Oh and for everyones information, she loves her crate.


It obviously worked for you and she likes her crate and thats good. What people are saying though is that for some dogs especially nervous unconfident ones who may not have ever even see a crate or been in one, some can go absolutely mental get really stressed and freak out if just put in a crate and the door shut, that can then cause stress and phobias about the crate and if that should happen then you can put them off it totally. Therefore its best to introduce and gradually work up to being able to shut the door, less chance of it back firing that way that was all.

Its got nothing to do with treating dogs like human babies they arnte but its also easy to create fears and phobias in dogs aswell especially as pups go through at least two fear periods as part of their critical stages of development. Bad experiences and things causing fear especially at that time can have a lasting impression and can become ongoing phobias. There is a difference between a bit of barking as I believe was the case with your one and real stress and freaking out.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

BessieDog said:


> I had a dreadful nipper. *I ended up wearing willies in the house to give my ankles a rest!*
> 
> It's a phase, a nasty one, but it does end. Mine took to 17 weeks when I suddenly realised I was cuddling my pup without being bitten.


I know, I know, serious thread & all but:eek6::eek6::eek6::eek6:


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## LoopyDoodle (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi

I was wondering about your general management of your puppy?
Is he allowed on sofas/beds? Is he given free access to all areas of the house? Does he lie across doorways or areas where he can keep tabs on everyone?

The reason I ask is because it sounds to me like your dog has no sense whatsoever that YOU are in charge and HE is subordinate to you. He acts like he is top dog so he can demand attention whenever he likes, control your movements around the house and chastise you if you displease him! And that is totally the wrong way round!

This, to me, is a rank problem. He outranks you. Bigtime. Either because he is a naturally dominant dog who will challenge, or because you have taught him that he outranks you by how you treat him. A lot of separation anxiety comes from an unconfident dog believing they are in charge! (They can;t cope with it.) So if this makes any sense to you, I'd do some form of rank restructuring: Limit access round the house. (Use stair gates or whatever). Keep him in just a few small rooms: the kitchen only. Or kitchen and utility. Whatever is convenient. Never let him on furniture. Any attempt and he needs to be shoved off with no eye contact. Growl at him if he tries to get up again. ANY BITING PUT HIM IN TIME OUT. Ignore him a lot! When he walks away or leaves you alone, then call him to you for a stroke, treat. Any pestering, whining, barking - ignore again. You may need to take a few days off work and spend the whole time ignoring pestering/whining/barking while treating and rewarding quiet behaviour. Using a clicker can really help shape behaviour when there is very little 'good' behaviour going on. Even just 10 seconds between bouts of barking and you can click and treat.

I would also crate train him. But don't use the crate for time-out as you want the crate to be a safe doggy den, not a place of punishment.

There is lots of advice here on crate training:

Puppy Crate Training system designed to crate train your dog fast

Be warned, this is extreme crate training and may seem unkind. But Dunbar takes the view that half of puppies (in the US) are given up for re-homing between 6 & 12 months because of challenging behaviour. Of those, most are euthanised. So it IS serious. And it DOES matter. As you are discovering, a disrespectful, controlling, incessantly attention seeking puppy can ruin your life. And unless you get it under control it may mean the end of his. So I would see Doggy Boot Camp as life & sanity saving, not cruel. And it is temporary. Remember the more well behaved and reliable your dog is, the more freedom he will end up with in the end!

Good luck.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

dandogman said:


> To be honest people, it worked, it is not like leaving a baby crying, since when were DOGS human babies? This is why there are so many problems with dogs these days.
> 
> Oh and for everyones information, she loves her crate.


It worked for you. I for one could not sit there and listen to my new puppy bark for hours, doesnt seem right somehow


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## LoopyDoodle (Oct 9, 2012)

I think sometimes people just need to do what is realistically possible - with puppies AND with babies - rather than what is perfect/the best. 

To use an obvious example: if sleep training (aka letting baby cry) prevents mum cracking up then it is better that going beyond your limits. It's too easy to say: I would never..' 'how could you...' etc without knowing someone's situation.

I had twin babies and a 20 month old boy. None of them slept through. For me it was sleep train or get sectioned! So I did and they all sleep really well now and I refuse to beat myself up about it!

With puppies, I can't have them upstairs because some family members are severely allergic. They don't come to stay with us that often but unless we kept the whole first floor a dog-free zone they would not be able to come at all. So she slept alone in the kitchen from day 1. And I ignored her crying after the first night because when I went into to see her the first night, she was so happy that she leapt around excitedly and barked! At 2 am. Not something the neighbours will deal with. Under different circumstances I might have had her in a crate by my bed, then gradually moved her into her own space. But that was not possible. She cried for the 2nd night. And has never cried at night since. She loves her crate. She is never remotely reluctant to get into it at night. If I pop back into the kitchen shortly after she has gone to bed she will always be curled up asleep, or about to be.

(Incidentally, I did crate train very carefully, so she was not stressed by the crate itself.)


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

LoopyDoodle said:


> To use an obvious example: if sleep training (aka letting baby cry) prevents mum cracking up then it is better that going beyond your limits. It's too easy to say: I would never..' 'how could you...' etc without knowing someone's situation.


Doing what is best for mum as well as baby does need to be taken into account, however it is now well established in scientific circles that leaving a baby to 'cry it out' affects brain development - I won't bore you with the science, but lets just say that cortisol (the stress hormone) can be very damaging to a young brain. You have to remember that to a baby, being abandoned is life and death to them, and while you know that you're still there and 'just' letting them cry, they have no way of knowing that you'll come back this time. Crying is a babies best way of communicating that he or she has unmet needs. Regardless of the neurological implications, why would you want to teach that baby that their needs are not important?

Puppies are babies. If he or she is crying, there is a reason for it. Even if leaving them until they give up "works", personally I'd rather find a kinder way to calm a distressed puppy.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I wouldnt let one of my pups go to a home where it wasnt agreed that the pup would have their crate next to their new owner for a minimum if 3 nights. I have had owners camp on the floor next to the crate for a few nights where putting the crate in the bedroom wasnt an option.

With regards human babies....sleep management...etc.....that is done under controlled circumstances...ie check and comfort the baby after specific time periods without removing them from the cot automatically....its training them to sleep through....not a case of off you go...Im going to sleep.....you cry your little heart out

Also...should be mentioned that in tiny breeds....hypoglyceamia (blood sugar drop) can be brought on by stress and leaving a pup for hours crying in a crate could result in a very sick.....or worse.....puppy!

OP have you asked your breeders advice. I know I would want to be involved if I had bred this puppy?


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## LoopyDoodle (Oct 9, 2012)

I do understand the science (I run sleep clinics at a children's hospital!). This is why my son co-slept. But you have to be realistic and do what is POSSIBLE with whatever circumstances you have.

To go back to OP, lots of people are saying 'don;t worry, it will pass, hang in there etc'. Now if someone CAN hang in there, great. They have my greatest admiration. But as my previous reply stated, lots of people can't and don't. The outlook for puppies put up for re-homing in the first year is bleak to say the least. So sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. Is the current situation tolerable? If not, this becomes an emergency. In the same way, I see mothers on the brink of post natal depression or fathers about to walk out due to chronic sleep problems as an EMERGENCY. And in emergencies you do things that under normal circumstances you might not choose to do. Saying 'oh, never leave poor puppy/ poor baby', is essentially just telling people to continue to cope with something they can't cope with, and by doing that, often a far worse situation develops.

(Incidentally, I don't think crate training or rank restructuring are cruel, anyway.)


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

LoopyDoodle said:


> I do understand the science (I run sleep clinics at a children's hospital!). This is why my son co-slept. But you have to be realistic and do what is POSSIBLE with whatever circumstances you have.
> 
> To go back to OP, lots of people are saying 'don;t worry, it will pass, hang in there etc'. Now if someone CAN hang in there, great. They have my greatest admiration. But as my previous reply stated, lots of people can't and don't. The outlook for puppies put up for re-homing in the first year is bleak to say the least. So sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. Is the current situation tolerable? If not, this becomes an emergency. In the same way, I see mothers on the brink of post natal depression or fathers about to walk out due to chronic sleep problems as an EMERGENCY. And in emergencies you do things that under normal circumstances you might not choose to do. Saying 'oh, never leave poor puppy/ poor baby', is essentially just telling people to continue to cope with something they can't cope with, and by doing that, often a far worse situation develops.
> 
> (Incidentally, I don't think crate training or rank restructuring are cruel, anyway.)


I dont think anyone disagrees with crate TRAINING.....they....I....disagree with letting a pup cry for hours when clearly distressed that is not training....its neglect imho.

As for ranking in the home.....this is learned...not overnight results but positive reinforcement helps this along.

I agree that things can get out of hand if an owner isnt coping....hence me twice asking if the OP has contacted the breeder. For one...the breeder Knows this pup inside out so is in a better position to advise and number two.....the Breeder may offer to take the pup back if things dont improve....taking some pressure off OP.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

LoopyDoodle said:


> I do understand the science (I run sleep clinics at a children's hospital!). This is why my son co-slept. But you have to be realistic and do what is POSSIBLE with whatever circumstances you have.


If you understand the science and hence the extent of the damage this can do, I am bemused as to why you would support leaving a child to cry on a public forum without adding a warning for people who might not have all the information! Of course people can only do what is possible but from a neurological and psychological point of view, it is not something that should happen on any regular basis.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic OP. I hope life with your pup gets easier soon! From what I understand, everyone has days where they think "what have I done!?".


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

LoopyDoodle said:


> Hi
> 
> I was wondering about your general management of your puppy?
> *Is he allowed on sofas/beds? Is he given free access to all areas of the house? Does he lie across doorways or areas where he can keep tabs on everyone? *The reason I ask is because it sounds to me like your dog has no sense whatsoever that YOU are in charge and HE is subordinate to you. He acts like he is top dog so he can demand attention whenever he likes, control your movements around the house and chastise you if you displease him! And that is totally the wrong way round!
> ...


What on earth has that got to do with anything? Rank problem? What utter BS. This puppy is behaving like a puppy and I think the OP is rather nervous of him now, which is making the situation worse. Dogs know what you are feeling. If a puppy bites, I have found that keeping perfectly still is the quickest way for him to become bored and go do something else. As to attacking ankles, someone mentioned wellies (though I think there was some misunderstanding) which is great. Stand perfectly still and if you are wearing wellies, all he gets is a bad taste and no excitement.



chichi said:


> *I wouldnt let one of my pups go to a home where it wasnt agreed that the pup would have their crate next to their new owner for a minimum if 3 nights. * I have had owners camp on the floor next to the crate for a few nights where putting the crate in the bedroom wasnt an option.
> 
> With regards human babies....sleep management...etc.....that is done under controlled circumstances...ie check and comfort the baby after specific time periods without removing them from the cot automatically....its training them to sleep through....not a case of off you go...Im going to sleep.....you cry your little heart out
> 
> ...


What about people who don't want to use a crate at all? I would not be impressed if a breeder told me that I had to crate train my puppy - in fact I would go elsewhere.

I would never leave a puppy to cry or bark and I wouldn't leave a baby to cry either. The hysteria that can arise from both situations is dangerous. My puppies have all slept with me from the beginning, with the exception of Joshua who liked to cuddle up with Ferdie.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

tashax said:


> It worked for you. I for one could not sit there and listen to my new puppy bark for hours, doesnt seem right somehow


Indeed. I see your point, but if hadn't left her to cry, then she would have still had that same crying period that night!
Are you honestly telling me that when you get a puppy, you put it in its crate during the night, as soon as it cries, you go and let it out? By doing that you are surely reinforcing that crying = attention?

Just how I see it anyway


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Alice Childress said:


> Doing what is best for mum as well as baby does need to be taken into account, however it is now well established in scientific circles that leaving a baby to 'cry it out' affects brain development - I won't bore you with the science, but lets just say that cortisol (the stress hormone) can be very damaging to a young brain. You have to remember that to a baby, being abandoned is life and death to them, and while you know that you're still there and 'just' letting them cry, they have no way of knowing that you'll come back this time. Crying is a babies best way of communicating that he or she has unmet needs. Regardless of the neurological implications, why would you want to teach that baby that their needs are not important?
> 
> Puppies are babies. If he or she is crying, there is a reason for it. Even if leaving them until they give up "works", personally I'd rather find a kinder way to calm a distressed puppy.


oh dear. The majority of people over a certain age.must be brain damaged as it was the usual way to bring up a baby. If it cried it was left. It was picked up to be fed every 4 hours and laid down for the rest of the time.

Same for puppies. there were no crates, no dogs in bedrooms. Puppies cried, often without a break, for the first night, a bit less the second and then slept through from the third night. There was no such thing as seperation anxiety, they learnt from the beginning what was what and that was their life. There were none of the awful problems people seem to go through with their puppies and adult dogs nowadays. They were a member of the family with their place and they were happy with that.


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## LoopyDoodle (Oct 9, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> What on earth has that got to do with anything? Rank problem? What utter BS.


Ouch! Nice reasoned reply. Thanks.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Blitz said:


> oh dear. The majority of people over a certain age.must be brain damaged as it was the usual way to bring up a baby. If it cried it was left. It was picked up to be fed every 4 hours and laid down for the rest of the time.


I'm sorry Blitz but this is not opinion, it is scientific fact. In answer to your question, a less sensationalised way of putting it is that these babies brains will not have developed to their full capacity - the extent of which depends on frequency, degree as well as how the rest of the child's needs are met in other areas. Leaving a baby to "cry itself out" negatively impacts neuron growth among other things. This is fact.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Alice Childress said:


> I'm sorry Blitz but this is not opinion, it is scientific fact. In answer to your question, a less sensationalised way of putting it is that these babies brains will not have developed to their full capacity - the extent of which depends on frequency, degree as well as how the rest of the child's needs are met in other areas. Leaving a baby to "cry itself out" negatively impacts neuron growth among other things. This is fact.


My mother tried to tell me that my baby had to cry and cry in order to exercise her lungs! I do hope we have progressed since then.


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## Bagrat (Jun 4, 2012)

Alice Childress said:


> I'm sorry Blitz but this is not opinion, it is scientific fact. In answer to your question, a less sensationalised way of putting it is that these babies brains will not have developed to their full capacity - the extent of which depends on frequency, degree as well as how the rest of the child's needs are met in other areas. Leaving a baby to "cry itself out" negatively impacts neuron growth among other things. This is fact.


I didn't think Blitz was saying it wasn't scientific fact just trying to soften the huge guilt rush that some of the older forum members ( like me) might be having. We are all here to learn I think, but I'm grateful that my daughter who cried a lot (and son who didn't) seem to have survived in spite of my cag handed mothering skills. We all do our best with the info we have at the time and also what our gut feeling tells us - same with dogs, babies and relationships. Dogs in my past must have suffered as my children did but i love 'em all.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> What about people who don't want to use a crate at all? I would not be impressed if a breeder told me that I had to crate train my puppy - in fact I would go elsewhere.
> 
> I would never leave a puppy to cry or bark and I wouldn't leave a baby to cry either. The hysteria that can arise from both situations is dangerous. My puppies have all slept with me from the beginning, with the exception of Joshua who liked to cuddle up with Ferdie.


If you would be happy for a 1 to 2 lb puppy to roam in the early days and not crate train then a puppy wouldnt be available from me in any case. A crate is for the safety of the pup in my opinion...not for the convenience of the owner. Most homes are not safe for tiny little Chi pups. I am just as happy with a playpen...just so long as the pup cant go roaming but has space to be comfortable.

Most of my pups have ended up sleeping in with their owners Once older but all have agreed that the crate has been a godsend. If I was involved with a larger breed....I may feel differently about a crate but Chi pups are delicate and I need to know they will be safe.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

chichi said:


> If you would be happy for a 1 to 2 lb puppy to roam in the early days and not crate train then a puppy wouldnt be available from me in any case. A crate is for the safety of the pup in my opinion...not for the convenience of the owner. Most homes are not safe for tiny little Chi pups. I am just as happy with a playpen...just so long as the pup cant go roaming but has space to be comfortable.
> 
> Most of my pups have ended up sleeping in with their owners Once older but all have agreed that the crate has been a godsend. If I was involved with a larger breed....I may feel differently about a crate but Chi pups are delicate and I need to know they will be safe.


I see your point, but I wouldn't use a crate. As I said, all my puppies have come into my room with me except Joshua who wanted to tuck up with Ferdie. He had a puppy pen because the breeder made so much fuss about not leaving him alone with Ferdie, because giant breeds are also very delicate, but he kept us awake all night till I let him come out and cuddle with Ferdie.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Alice Childress said:


> I'm sorry Blitz but this is not opinion, it is scientific fact. In answer to your question, a less sensationalised way of putting it is that these babies brains will not have developed to their full capacity - the extent of which depends on frequency, degree as well as how the rest of the child's needs are met in other areas. Leaving a baby to "cry itself out" negatively impacts neuron growth among other things. This is fact.


Scientific fact is based on experimental design.. really can't believe what you read unless the study is very thorough... i'm not debating they obviously found a negative correlation.. but under what sample, how did they follow up, what controls etc. Too many variables in my opinion

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing.. but i will say this.. one of my friends is deaf, she recently had a baby and was worried about crying/missing the baby crying... she was told by specialists that if she fed regularly quite often babies of deaf parents will not cry for attention-

OP good luck with your puppy!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I see your point, but I wouldn't use a crate. As I said, all my puppies have come into my room with me except Joshua who wanted to tuck up with Ferdie. He had a puppy pen because the breeder made so much fuss about not leaving him alone with Ferdie, because giant breeds are also very delicate, but he kept us awake all night till I let him come out and cuddle with Ferdie.


I understand your breeders worry....probably like me and sees a hazard in everything. Admit 100% that I am probably OTT with safety and warn my pups owners of this straight away. They usually are so happy to find a breeder that genuinely loves their pups....so probs humour me a little


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Alice Childress said:


> I'm sorry Blitz but this is not opinion, it is scientific fact. In answer to your question, a less sensationalised way of putting it is that these babies brains will not have developed to their full capacity - the extent of which depends on frequency, degree as well as how the rest of the child's needs are met in other areas. Leaving a baby to "cry itself out" negatively impacts neuron growth among other things. This is fact.


I am sure there will be another scientific fact lurking around to say that allowing a baby to cry is not detrimental or even that it is good for it. As I said, if it is truly a fact, there are several generations wandering round in a brain damaged crying induced state, myself included. I feel my brain is reasonably well developed though so I really do not care. My sister left her baby to cry for hours and hours for 18 months - he seems a very bright man now.

As for not allowing a puppy to go to a new home that will not crate it - never heard anything like that. Do you go and check on it - because I bet a lot of people would agree to anything but then just do it their own way.
I would not consider going to a breeder that even attempted to lay down the law on how the puppy should be kept.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I am sure there will be another scientific fact lurking around to say that allowing a baby to cry is not detrimental or even that it is good for it. As I said, if it is truly a fact, there are several generations wandering round in a brain damaged crying induced state, myself included. I feel my brain is reasonably well developed though so I really do not care. My sister left her baby to cry for hours and hours for 18 months - he seems a very bright man now.
> 
> As for not allowing a puppy to go to a new home that will not crate it - never heard anything like that. Do you go and check on it - because I bet a lot of people would agree to anything but then just do it their own way.
> I would not consider going to a breeder that even attempted to lay down the law on how the puppy should be kept.


I respect that. I really do but I dont twist peoples arms to have a pup from me. They dont like my terms...they go elsewhere....the internet is full of litters whose breeders couldnt give two craps about the pups...why come to me....unless you want to buy a puppy that has been reared with care. Tbh...Ive never had anyone with a problem over using a crate...most approach me for my views on crate training...rather than the other way round.


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

We all have our different ways.

I have never let animals or babies cry it out. I didn't crib and I don't crate. I do judiciously use a pen (usually with a small vinyl covered mattress in there for myself for a couple of months that goes down when they need a night time cuddle to drift off.) I'm a coddler and set my boundaries as young ones mature.

Others parent differently as that is what works best for their own style and their unique amount of patience and time constraints and the personality style of their children or animals.

Unless someone is going to the extremes young beings tend to be resilient. Working in childcare and welfare, however, I have to caution that some do take rules to the extremes and I cringe when 'by the book' is touted as the right way to go. Your own instincts are important.

I would go elsewhere if a breeder attempted to lay down the law on the manner in which I was supposed to raise my animals. It doesn't take into account the very personal circumstances and styles each owner will have with their own new pet. I also respect a breeder's decision to say 'I'm not comfortable with that' and not sell me a pup. The followup relationship, in that case, probably wouldn't work too well anyway.

CC


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Blitz said:


> I am sure there will be another scientific fact lurking around to say that allowing a baby to cry is not detrimental or even that it is good for it. As I said, if it is truly a fact, there are several generations wandering round in a brain damaged crying induced state, myself included. I feel my brain is reasonably well developed though so I really do not care. My sister left her baby to cry for hours and hours for 18 months - he seems a very bright man now.


I can only assume that your brain is reasonably well developed, that is not the same as saying that it developed to it's full capacity though. This is not some flimsy new scientific fact, it is very well established that cortisol (the stress hormone, released when babies cry) prunes (ie kills) neurons and impairs our immune system. In excessive amounts this results in long term damage. This is one of many biochemical reactions that result from leaving a baby to cry. Another impact of excessive amounts of stress and periods of isolation in babies is a life long neurological hypersensitivity to stress.

Your opinion on your sister's child is not scientific evidence that cortisol does not damage neural growth.

Clearly we are not going to agree on this, even though it isn't actually a matter of opinion  Personally, even if it had no physical impact, I would not want to leave any baby crying for hours. Why? Because if I put myself in a situation where I imagine my survival being depending on person X and then that person disappeared without warning, with no idea of when or if they'll be coming back, and no amount of shouting, calling or crying made any difference, I would feel very scared.

I'm not trying to scare anyone who either was left to cry it out or left their children, people do the best they can, and it doesn't mean you/they won't grow up to be a functioning human being! However, like it or not, it is not the best thing for a growing brain.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Indeed. I see your point, but if hadn't left her to cry, then she would have still had that same crying period that night!
> Are you honestly telling me that when you get a puppy, you put it in its crate during the night, as soon as it cries, you go and let it out? By doing that you are surely reinforcing that crying = attention?
> 
> Just how I see it anyway


Nope i wouldnt but i have never had the crying period because the pup and crate were in the living room with me. If he/she cried she was taken out to toilet, if they didnt go they went back in the crate. I just dont see myself being able to sit/lie in bed and listen to a very upset puppy cry and bark. I would also have some angry neighbors


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## Kim1967 (Jul 21, 2018)

I am going through the same thing - at this moment in time my 17 week old lab has reduced me to tears. We don’t allow her on the sofa but when daddy is out she insists on jumping on the sofa and it is a if she knows it winds me up - I am very firm with her but she thinks it’s a game. I get on the floor with her to play and she is fine for 5 minutes and then jumps on the sofa and this morning she attacked me from behind...we have a floor full of toys but she decides she wants what she can’t have - I feel like I have failed. We have 5 sessions of training starting Tuesday and I hope it works. Today I have had to leave her in her pen and remove myself from the room to cry!


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## TDOTYELLER (Jul 21, 2018)

Kim1967 said:


> I am going through the same thing - at this moment in time my 17 week old lab has reduced me to tears. We don't allow her on the sofa but when daddy is out she insists on jumping on the sofa and it is a if she knows it winds me up - I am very firm with her but she thinks it's a game. I get on the floor with her to play and she is fine for 5 minutes and then jumps on the sofa and this morning she attacked me from behind...we have a floor full of toys but she decides she wants what she can't have - I feel like I have failed. We have 5 sessions of training starting Tuesday and I hope it works. Today I have had to leave her in her pen and remove myself from the room to cry!


Hi there;
Male or Female?


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Hi @Kim1967 and welcome. The original thread is over 6 years old and many of the original participants are no longer here.

For replies to your situation it is best to start your own thread.

Also have a look at the puppy support sticky. Lots of people have had similar experience and some contributors to that thread are going through exactly the same issues right now.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

As this is such an old thread I really think you would benefit from starting your own.So sorry you're finding it hard to cope with but you will find others suffering in the same way and get lots of advice and help.
This is why I got my dogs as adults , and that was shock enough !
:Locktopic


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