# Who is in the wrong if an aggressive dogs attacks another off lead friendly dog?



## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

I had an altercation with somebody the other day which lead to me finding posts around the subject with comments that go against some dog owners such as myself. I am now wondering if everyone else thinks the same, which confuses me.

I have a very sociable/happy/friendly lurcher that I take to the park regularly to stretch his legs. He has a good recall response and is more interested in his ball than he is dogs at the other end of the park. If we find another dog passing us, he will behave as a typical dog does and say hello, I then call him to move on and there is never usually a problem.

However, the other day we were playing with his ball and I did not notice an older man walking his dog behind us on the lead. My dog spotted this dog before I did and trotted up to it to say hello. My dog was greeted by a snapping dog and an even worse old man attempting to kick him. This caused an argument and has made me fearful of returning to this park with my dog.

9 out of 10 people who's comments I have seen on this seem to say that I am in the wrong for letting my dog greet other dogs, as they do. My opinion on this is that people with aggressive dogs are not doing the most intelligent thing by taking their dogs on leads to places where they know other sociable dogs are playing off lead. My parents owned a rescue dog when I was younger and we would always walk him around the streets on a lead and cross the road upon seeing other dogs with the knowledge that he was nervous. Why do other people not do this and blame the people who love seeing their dogs socialise with others? Why do people take these dogs to parks and kick/shout at dogs due to their dog being aggressive and am I in the wrong?


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Yes you are in the wrong. You do not know the mans situation or why he is walking in the park it’s his business. I have a reactive dog and do try to avoid people where possible but this man may not drive or might not be able to travel far. Either way you should not let your dog approach unknown dogs.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> Yes you are in the wrong. You do not know the mans situation or why he is walking in the park it's his business. I have a reactive dog and do try to avoid people where possible but this man may not drive or might not be able to travel far. Either way you should not let your dog approach unknown dogs.


So it is ok for people to take their aggressive dogs where they can potentially harm other dogs?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ash296 said:


> So it is ok for people to take their aggressive dogs where they can potentially harm other dogs?


What do you mean by 'aggressive dogs'? This dog may have shown aggressive behaviour when your dog went over due to many reasons but this behaviour does not define it. I sometimes shout at people who cannot control their dogs but it doesn't mean I am aggressive


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Cleo38 said:


> What do you mean by 'aggressive dogs'? This dog may have shown aggressive behaviour when your dog went over due to many reasons but this behaviour does not define it. I sometimes shout at people who cannot control their dogs but it doesn't mean I am aggressive


You obviously have not read my post fully. I can control my dog as he has a very good recall response. As I said, I had no warning as this man was behind me and I can only imagine due to his behaviour of kicking my dog, he probably hasn't socialised or treated his too well.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Ash296 said:


> You obviously have not read my post fully. I can control my dog as he has a very good recall response. As I said, I had no warning as this man was behind me and I can only imagine due to his behaviour of kicking my dog, he probably hasn't socialised or treated his too well.


I can only imagine that this means behaviour was due to his dog being problematic. Which isn't the type of dog I would take to a park just to keep on a lead.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Ash296 said:


> So it is ok for people to take their aggressive dogs where they can potentially harm other dogs?


His dog was on a lead yes ? So his was under control yours wasn't. It snapped did not attack. It may have been recovering from an operation, nervous, perhaps elderly and it's sight not so great.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Unfortunately you're in the wrong.


Ash296 said:


> So it is ok for people to take their aggressive dogs where they can potentially harm other dogs?


Yes because their dog is under control.

I know you say you didn't see him so this was just an accident and I'm sure a polite apology would have gone a long way but best practice is if you know your dog will go up to other dogs just put him on a lead when you see a dog who is on a lead.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Boxer123 said:


> His dog was on a lead yes ? So his was under control yours wasn't. It snapped did not attack. It may have been recovering from an operation, nervous, perhaps elderly and it's sight not so great.





Arny said:


> Unfortunately you're in the wrong.
> 
> Yes because their dog is under control.
> 
> I know you say you didn't see him so this was just an accident and I'm sure a polite apology would have gone a long way but best practice is if you know your dog will go up to other dogs just put him on a lead when you see a dog who is on a lead.


I am not going to politely apologise to a man who has kicked my dog.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Im afraid technically you are in the wrong as your dog is off lead and has approached a dog that was under control but i do see where you're coming from because i live in a country area (i dont do park walks) and dogs do just mingle on by usually.

I generally keep to an unwritten rule of if another dog is on lead i dont let mine approach but if oncoming dogs are off lead then fine to go.

Like you though, i had a situation similar to yours, not in a park but on an overgrown country path where my dog was running ahead and, most unexpectedly ran into the path of an oncoming on lead dog owned by an elderly man.

The dog actually wasnt at all agressive, but it started bouncing about on its lead and the man was very cross. And i remember thinking "ffs. Why come into a country off lead area where the chance of meeting an off lead dog is really high"

I thought that only in my head though. I apologised and, a few mins later realised he had literally left his car parked up at the field edge and tipped out to take his dog 50 yards.


In a park though, you do tend to meet a lot of very short distance park walkers and they do have a right to walk in peace. Things are generally a bit more relaxed in the country.


When i got my 2nd dog (as a pup) i thought id start off on the right foot and have her focused on me, not approach other dogs without permission etc.

But it was just totally stressful and unworkable for where i live. I remember standing with her whilst dogs bounded up and i gave it up as a bad job as it is just much more relaxing and realistic for where i am for dogs to mingle along together.

Off lead ones anyway.


If you have been walking in this park for a while without incident, id be inclined to keep going and hope this is just a bad luck one off.

If you have a good recall on your dog, it is very unlikely to happen again.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ash296 said:


> I can only imagine that this means behaviour was due to his dog being problematic. Which isn't the type of dog I would take to a park just to keep on a lead.


You have no idea why his dog is on a lead. It may have been recovering from surgery, it may be ill, it might be frail, it might be nervous. He may have over reacted but that might be due to other dogs rushing over & worrying his dog, it might be that your dog was the final straw.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

You are responsible for the man kicking your dog.

If your dog had been under your control then it wouldn’t have happened, would it?

Your responsibility is to keep your dog safe, and you failed.

I would suggest you take on board the replies here, and learn from this incident.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Ash296 said:


> I had an altercation with somebody the other day which lead to me finding posts around the subject with comments that go against some dog owners such as myself. I am now wondering if everyone else thinks the same, which confuses me.
> 
> I have a very sociable/happy/friendly lurcher that I take to the park regularly to stretch his legs. He has a good recall response and is more interested in his ball than he is dogs at the other end of the park. If we find another dog passing us, he will behave as a typical dog does and say hello, I then call him to move on and there is never usually a problem.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but yes, you are in the wrong. 
It's actually not very friendly behavior on your dog's part to continue to approach a dog who's obviously asking him to stay back. That's what the snapping means - stay away.

Being leashed can make many dogs feel trapped, particularly when another dog is approaching. There are many perfectly "normal" reasons why a dog might be leashed, recovery from injury, not safe on recall yet, or simply the owner prefers the dog to be leashed.

A good practice is to teach your dog to ignore other dogs, particularly leashed dogs, and if your dog does approach a leashed dog, recall him right away, it's just very unfair on the leashed dog to have to deal with a loose dog.

Let me give you an example. One of my dogs is old and rickety and it doesn't take much for his legs to give out on him. He loves going for walks and being out with me and the younger dog. He potters along slowly, he's not on a leash, but he might as well be as he is always right by my side. 
If your dog came trotting up to him, I would definitely shoo your dog away, and if he didn't shoo and continued to come towards us, yes, I would probably kick him away. My old man is my priority and I'm not going to leave him to deal with an enthusiastic youngster who could easily hurt him just making him move out of his way.

I also have a small dog who is small enough that I would be extremely wary of a bigger dog approaching her that I didn't know. She has good dog skills but on a leash that limits her ability to manage interactions, and frankly, she shouldn't have to. I would shoo a dog away from her too.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

My dog approached the dog to say hello (normal, healthy dog behaviour) and backed off once it snapped. This is the first incident as the other people who come to this park are friendly, as are their dogs. I have had a nervous dog and I did the responsible thing of keeping it away from other dogs, this is why I find it a strange concept to take an unsociable dog to a park. If I had to keep my dog on a lead all the time, then he would develop problems himself. Restricting them from socialising leads to problems too, so I have a lose, lose situation on my hands now and am obviously an irresponsible owner as I enjoy my dog's natural behaviour and have had the positive experience of friendly dogs for the past year I have had him.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> Sorry, but yes, you are in the wrong.
> It's actually not very friendly behavior on your dog's part to continue to approach a dog who's obviously asking him to stay back. That's what the snapping means - stay away.
> 
> Being leashed can make many dogs feel trapped, particularly when another dog is approaching. There are many perfectly "normal" reasons why a dog might be leashed, recovery from injury, not safe on recall yet, or simply the owner prefers the dog to be leashed.
> ...


My dog didn't continue to move to towards the thing. The poor boy was kicked before he had the chance to read this dog and back off.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Linda Weasel said:


> You are responsible for the man kicking your dog.
> 
> If your dog had been under your control then it wouldn't have happened, would it?
> 
> ...


The MAN is responsible. My dog did nothing to this other dog. He quickly backed off infact.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

tabelmabel said:


> Im afraid technically you are in the wrong as your dog is off lead and has approached a dog that was under control but i do see where you're coming from because i live in a country area (i dont do park walks) and dogs do just mingle on by usually.
> 
> I generally keep to an unwritten rule of if another dog is on lead i dont let mine approach but if oncoming dogs are off lead then fine to go.
> 
> ...


I do take the point of why go to an off lead area. However to give an example. I am very lucky I live in a beautiful area lots of walks.

One walk is 30 seconds from my house. Around a field but concrete path do no mud. Only a mile so great for quick lunch walkies. Both boys love this walk. Prior to lockdown puppy boom I would see my neighbours all dogs off lead however under control. They would stay to heel as I walked past with onlead. Maybe stop for a chat their dog still under control.

Now it is so busy dogs everywhere off lead. People driving in to walk there despite lockdown. It is an off lead country walk but not like it used to be.

So I can no longer walk loki there I get to trudge through the muddy field because my dog is reactive.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Sorry but 9 out of 10 people are right & you are in the wrong here, the man had his dog onlead & under control, & regardless of your opinion of 'aggressive' dogs they are just as entitled to be walked in public as your dog is.

I would do the same as him under the circs if some strange dog, whose intentions we don't know, comes barrelling at mine.


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## Oldspot78 (Sep 15, 2016)

And for all you know, his on lead dog may have been attacked previously by an off lead dog. It happened to me with my old dog despite the owner shouting the classic ‘he’s friendly’.....


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ash296 said:


> My dog approached the dog to say hello (normal, healthy dog behaviour) and backed off once it snapped. This is the first incident as the other people who come to this park are friendly, as are their dogs. I have had a nervous dog and I did the responsible thing of keeping it away from other dogs, this is why I find it a strange concept to take an unsociable dog to a park. *If I had to keep my dog on a lead all the time, then he would develop problems himself. Restricting them from socialising leads to problems too,* so I have a lose, lose situation on my hands now and am obviously an irresponsible owner as I enjoy my dog's natural behaviour and have had the positive experience of friendly dogs for the past year I have had him.


This is not correct. Socialising isn't just letting random dogs approach each other. Some people are happy with this but many are not. I am not happy with this. My dogs do not socialise with dogs I do not know & neither of them have any problems with this.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Ash296 said:


> My dog didn't continue to move to towards the thing. The poor boy was kicked before he had the chance to read this dog and back off.


If your dog was close enough for the man to kick him and make contact then I can assure you that the dog signaled him to back off and he ignored those signals. A snap is generally the culmination of ignored signals.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Ash296 said:


> My dog approached the dog to say hello (normal, healthy dog behaviour)


Please read this:
https://suzanneclothier.com/article/just-wants-say-hi/


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

simplysardonic said:


> Sorry but 9 out of 10 people are right & you are in the wrong here, the man had his dog onlead & under control, & regardless of your opinion of 'aggressive' dogs they are just as entitled to be walked in public as your dog is.
> 
> I would do the same as him under the circs if some strange dog, whose intentions we don't know, comes barrelling at mine.


Thats what I don't understand. This is why aggressive dogs end up being destroyed. Because people expect the owners of normal dogs to to take responsibility for their own issues. It's a shame that I now have to refine my active dog to lead just because he was properly socialised as a puppy.

It's funny that these 9/10 people begin their comments with "my dog doesn't like other dogs." That is not normal.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> have had a nervous dog and I did the responsible thing of keeping it away from other dogs


He *was* keeping his dog away from other dogs. *It* didn't approach *yours*, *you* didn't keep *yours* away from his - do you see the distinction?


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> If your dog was close enough for the man to kick him and make contact then I can assure you that the dog signaled him to back off and he ignored those signals. A snap is generally the culmination of ignored signals.


I was there and no it did not. It was pulled up to the man's legs and didn't take much notice of my dog until he was kicked.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> Please read this:
> https://suzanneclothier.com/article/just-wants-say-hi/


This is demonstrating something different to what happened.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

I totally understand where you're coming from @Boxer123. It drives me crazy when i try to do some training with Tilly and an off lead dog bounds in. But it's just par for the course where i live so this on lead dont approach/off lead fine to approach seems to work well.

It is totally annoying when people have no control over their dogs and dont even seem to make an effort, give an apology or anything. But, on the other side of the coin, in a park during peak hours, chances are high that a dog will approach so, if my dogs couldnt cope with that, i just wouldnt go there. I know, technically it is the owner of the off lead dog in the wrong, but in the real world this is what you will get in a public space.

Obvs we dont know the full situation here. One would hope the park wasnt that busy during a lockdown and the man had chosen a quiet time and this was just an unfortunate situation.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Ash296 said:


> Thats what I don't understand. This is why aggressive dogs end up being destroyed. Because people expect the owners of normal dogs to to take responsibility for their own issues. It's a shame that I now have to refine my active dog to lead just because he was properly socialised as a puppy.
> 
> It's funny that these 9/10 people begin their comments with "my dog doesn't like other dogs."* That is not normal*.


It's certainly not as abnormal as you might think.

I've worked hard to help my reactive dog, reactive after several incidences of 'friendly' dogs approaching her, including one time when she was a few months old a very excited offlead labrador & boxer tag team who took it in turns barrelling into her & scaring the hell out of her.

So called 'aggressive' dogs are often very scared dogs trying their best to get the object of their fear to get the f*** away from them.

My dog isn't a menace who deserves to be put down, she wants to be left alone & is selective with whom she socialises, she has a small group of dogs she knows & is comfortable with, she also lives happily with 3 others & has no need or desire to interact with strangers who she feels may try & harm her.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Ash296 said:


> The MAN is responsible. My dog did nothing to this other dog. He quickly backed off infact.


It did. It approached an on lead dog, uninvited and invaded it's space.

The dog may be fearful of other dogs, elderly, recovering from surgery, in training etc.

The owner may have been nursing an injury himself and not wanting to be pulled around if his dog got excited.

As your dog has excellent recall I suggest you also train it not to run up to strange dogs, but rather just ignore them.

Concentrate on your dog and the surroundings so you aren't taken by surprise next time, and have plenty of opportunity to recall your dog.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Oldspot78 said:


> And for all you know, his on lead dog may have been attacked previously by an off lead dog. It happened to me with my old dog despite the owner shouting the classic 'he's friendly'.....


The rescue I used to have was attacked my other dogs also. I was smart enough to keep him away from other dogs.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

simplysardonic said:


> It's certainly not as abnormal as you might think.
> 
> I've worked hard to help my reactive dog, reactive after several incidences of 'friendly' dogs approaching her, including one time when she was a few months old a very excited offlead labrador & boxer tag team who took it in turns barrelling into her & scaring the hell out of her.
> 
> ...


If a dog is fearful of something, it is best to keep it away.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Lurcherlad said:


> It did. It approached an on lead dog, uninvited and invaded it's space.
> 
> The dog may be fearful of other dogs, elderly, recovering from surgery, in training etc.
> 
> ...


I don't really want to tread on eggshells just because somebody isn't sensible enough to walk a fearful/aggressive dog in a place where it won't be an issue. But yes I will have to keep my dog on a lead now and he is going to become one of these dogs that hate other dogs just because he is prohibited from socialising with then.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2021)

I understand what you're trying to say, but you're still in the wrong sorry. Where the man chooses to take his dog is up to him - he has the same right to walk where you do. Sure, it may not be the best spot for him to walk, but that's not your business. YOUR job is to keep your dog under control, and that means not approaching dogs who are on leads. And if it does happen, you apologise!


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2021)

Ash296 said:


> I don't really want to tread on eggshells just because somebody isn't sensible enough to walk a fearful/aggressive dog in a place where it won't be an issue. But yes I will have to keep my dog on a lead now and he is going to become one of these dogs that hate other dogs just because he is prohibited from socialising with then.


That's really not how socialisation works, you've been told that. But if you're going to choose to believe that, just train your dog not to approach other dogs / respond to your recall.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Ash296 said:


> If a dog is fearful of something, it is best to keep it away.


There is plenty of space for all dogs and their owners to get out and enjoy their walks, so long as everyone is responsible and considerate.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

McKenzie said:


> That's really not how socialisation works, you've been told that. But if you're going to choose to believe that, just train your dog not to approach other dogs / respond to your recall.


He does respond to my recall. I just didn't expect ignorant people to take a dog that attacks other dogs to a park..


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Ash296 said:


> If a dog is fearful of something, it is best to keep it away.


How do you suggest we do this?

Never take her out?

Slap her with a newspaper when she reacts aggressively to an offlead dog?

Please do share your knowledge because I'm sure all of us on here who are working with our reactive dogs would love to know the secret to allowing our dogs to participate in a free-for-all dog party.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Ash296 said:


> This is demonstrating something different to what happened.


If you think so then read it again. And again. And again.
Until you can understand it enough to extract what is relevant to you and your dog, and can grasp the concept that a 'well socialised' dog isn't one who thinks it's ok to barrel up into other dogs' space.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

simplysardonic said:


> How do you suggest we do this?
> 
> Never take her out?
> 
> ...


As I have said. I had a nervous dog myself and it worked wonders to keep him away from other dogs. I'm terrified of spiders and my way of getting over that id by avoiding them.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Ash296 said:


> I don't really want to tread on eggshells just because somebody isn't sensible enough to walk a fearful/aggressive dog in a place where it won't be an issue. But yes I will have to keep my dog on a lead now and he is going to become one of these dogs that hate other dogs just because he is prohibited from socialising with then.


You don't have to tread on eggshells just be aware of your surroundings and react accordingly.

Just train your dog not to approach strange dogs then he can be off lead .

Being able to control your loose dog is a legal requirement under Dog Law. If you can't, of course, then it shouldn't be running loose.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Linda Weasel said:


> If you think so then read it again. And again. And again.
> Until you can understand it enough to extract what is relevant to you and your dog, and can grasp the concept that a 'well socialised' dog isn't one who thinks it's ok to barrel up into other dogs' space.


They were walking towards my dog. He didn't "barrell over" he met him half way.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Lurcherlad said:


> You don't have to tread on eggshells just be aware of your surroundings and react accordingly.
> 
> Just train your dog not to approach strange dogs then he can be off lead .
> 
> Being able to control your loose dog is a legal requirement under Dog Law. If you can't, of course, then it shouldn't be running loose.


He is trained and he listens. As I have said this man was behind me and if I had seen him, I would have kept my dog away. This is why I believe he is the problem.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> My parents owned a rescue dog when I was younger and we would always walk him around the streets on a lead and cross the road upon seeing other dogs with the knowledge that he was nervous. Why do other people not do this and blame the people who love seeing their dogs socialise with others?


I'm sorry but why should a dog only get to experience pavement walks just because it does not wish to be approached by other dogs? It's really quite simple, if you let your dog run off-lead then ask the owners of other dogs before letting your dog approach them. It's just common sense. I appreciate that this was an accident so you could have just apologised to this man.



Ash296 said:


> So it is ok for people to take their aggressive dogs where they can potentially harm other dogs?


Your dog was not harmed was it? Any dog can potentially harm another dog, including so-called "friendly" dogs.



Ash296 said:


> Restricting them from socialising leads to problems too, so I have a lose, lose situation on my hands now and am obviously an irresponsible owner as I enjoy my dog's natural behaviour and have had the positive experience of friendly dogs for the past year I have had him.


Your version of "socialising" is different to mine. Dogs don't need to approach every other dog in a park to play with them. They can enjoy being with their humans and focus on them, in the comfortable knowledge that there are other dogs around. Most people don't feel the need to approach every other person in a park and interact with them, so why do you think that dogs need to do this?


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2021)

Ash296 said:


> He does respond to my recall. I just didn't expect ignorant people to take a dog that attacks other dogs to a park..


But the dog did not attack your dog. It air snapped in response to having its space invaded. And if you had recalled him, the dog wouldn't have had to do that.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Ash296 said:


> He does respond to my recall. I just didn't expect ignorant people to take a dog that attacks other dogs to a park..


Try & see this from his point of view- he's walking his possibly nervous, injured or frail dog, they're minding their own business, when all of a sudden a dog they don't know comes running up.

He probably thought you were pretty 'ignorant' yourself for assuming every dog in the park wants to play with yours.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Ash296 said:


> He is trained and he listens. As I have said this man was behind me and if I had seen him, I would have kept my dog away. This is why I believe he is the problem.


You would have seen him if you were paying full attention to your dog and surroundings.

I have to, to avoid dogs like yours so they don't run over and jump all over my friendly, on leash dog.

I keep an eye on the whole area, for dogs, cats, wildlife, kids, cars, etc.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

simplysardonic said:


> Try & see this from his point of view- he's walking his possibly nervous, injured or frail dog, they're minding their own business, when all of a sudden a dog they don't know comes running up.
> 
> He probably thought you were pretty 'ignorant' yourself for assuming every dog in the park wants to play with yours.


My dog didn't come running up. They were walking behind us. Just an ignorant, abusive old man in my opinion. I do know that dogs naturally examine each other etc when socialising and it is when people restrict their dogs and pull them they they develop problems.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Lurcherlad said:


> You would have seen him if you were paying full attention to your dog and surroundings.
> 
> I have to, to avoid dogs like yours so they don't run over and jump all over my friendly, on leash dog.
> 
> I keep an eye on the whole area, for dogs, cats, wildlife, kids, cars, etc.


You are overexaggerating. My dog does not run over and jump over other dogs. My dog, as well as the others that use the park walk up to each other and say hello before I call him away.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Ash296 said:


> As I have said. I had a nervous dog myself and it worked wonders to keep him away from other dogs. I'm terrified of spiders and my way of getting over that id by avoiding them.


How did you keep him away from other dogs?

I'm assuming you must have either kept him permanently onlead, own a lot of your own private land or only walked him somewhere remote with zero chance of meeting other dog walkers, which is nice but many dog owners don't have that luxury.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Lurcherlad said:


> You would have seen him if you were paying full attention to your dog and surroundings.
> 
> I have to, to avoid dogs like yours so they don't run over and jump all over my friendly, on leash dog.
> 
> I keep an eye on the whole area, for dogs, cats, wildlife, kids, cars, etc.





simplysardonic said:


> How did you keep him away from other dogs?
> 
> I'm assuming you must have either kept him permanently onlead, own a lot of your own private land or only walked him somewhere remote with zero chance of meeting other dog walkers, which is nice but many dog owners don't have that luxury.


I didn't take him to parks where I know there will be other dogs. It was very rare to end up in a situation where I couldn't avoid other dogs, I would just cross the road.


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## Oldspot78 (Sep 15, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> As I have said. I had a nervous dog myself and it worked wonders to keep him away from other dogs..


then you'd hope you'd be a little more considerate towards other dog owners.

The fact remains the gentleman is well within his rights to walk his ON LEAD dog where he pleases, with the current restrictions remember people can't travel to the middle of nowhere to walk.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Ash296 said:


> I didn't take him to parks where I know there will be other dogs. It was very rare to end up in a situation where I couldn't avoid other dogs, I would just cross the road.


I did keep him on lead when in public yes.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> I didn't take him to parks where I know there will be other dogs. It was very rare to end up in a situation where I couldn't avoid other dogs, I would just cross the road.


I don't know what the areas are like where you live, but by me the only place you can guarantee there not being any dogs off-lead is by the main roads. Why should someone be restricted to only being allowed to walk their dog along a main road for its entire life?


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Oldspot78 said:


> then you'd hope you'd be a little more considerate towards other dog owners.
> 
> The fact remains the gentleman is well within his rights to walk his ON LEAD dog where he pleases, with the current restrictions remember people can't travel to the middle of nowhere to walk.


How is having a dog with recall inconsiderate? As I said this man was behind me and he came closer than what he should have done with this particular dog.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Sairy said:


> I don't know what the areas are like where you live, but by me the only place you can guarantee there not being any dogs off-lead is by the main roads. Why should someone be restricted to only being allowed to walk their dog along a main road for its entire life?


It is not like that here there is plenty of places and greens, this man in particular decided that a park would be the best place.


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Please look at this from the other dog owners perspective. 
Today we walked our dog along a local well used trail. In the distance we heard an altercation, dog barking shouting etc. A few moments later a young lady came towards us carrying a small terrier. She was in some distress as three off lead dogs had surrounded her and gone for her dog, who was on a lead. We turned around and went back where we came from. It is only common courtesy that you leash your dog whilst passing a leashed dog to allow them to pass unhindered. Do you think that off lead dogs should be allowed anywhere? My own dog was attacked by two off leash dogs who were supposedly friendly, luckily I managed to pick him up, but I was terrified until the owners managed to recall them. Dogs can be unpredictable especially with unknown dogs.


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## Monkeypuppy (Jan 5, 2021)

I have made a vow to myself that I will NEVER be one of those people who says "don't worry, he's just being friendly/saying hello" . My kids are friendly but I don't let them run up to random strangers. Surely it's just manners.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Monkeypuppy said:


> I have made a vow to myself that I will NEVER be one of those people who says "don't worry, he's just being friendly/saying hello" . My kids are friendly but I don't let them run up to random strangers. Surely it's just manners.


What about the 80% of dogs that approach mine then? I'm happy to not call the owners inconsiderate and with recognising body language, I am happy for them to do so.


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## Monkeypuppy (Jan 5, 2021)

Ash296 said:


> What about the 80% of dogs that approach mine then? I'm happy to not call the owners inconsiderate and with recognising body language, I am happy for them to do so.


That's great that you're happy with it, but not everyone is, so in my opinion is just polite not to let your dog run up to people whether they have dogs on lead, off lead or no dogs at all. Not every person or dog wants to say hello to your dog. Everyone should be able to have a relaxing walk in a park without having to worry about dogs running up to them.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> It is not like that here there is plenty of places and greens, this man in particular decided that a park would be the best place.


Plenty of places where all dogs are on-lead?


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

McKenzie said:


> But the dog did not attack your dog. It air snapped in response to having its space invaded. And if you had recalled him, the dog wouldn't have had to do that.


ONE instance where I didn't see the person.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Sairy said:


> Plenty of places where all dogs are on-lead?


Yes.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Ash296 said:


> You are overexaggerating. My dog does not run over and jump over other dogs. My dog, as well as the others that use the park walk up to each other and say hello before I call him away.


No, I'm not sadly.

Yours may not, but dogs do RUN over (sometimes a distance the equivalent of the length of 3 football pitches), BARKING, YAPPING even GROWLING.

They would jump all over him too if I didn't block them.

It used to happen a lot when I first got him home from rescue and he was very reactive (though always friendly but also submissive). It's really difficult to train a dog to be calm when another dog is jumping on it's head or invading his space.

I had to protect him from uncouth dogs with inconsiderate owners and now all owners round here know to keep their dogs under control and away from him, or incur my wrath. It took a while for them to get the idea, but it was worth it and he and I can enjoy our walks unmolested.

One owner failed big time and one day her "friendly" dog decided to step over the line and actually bit my dog. She was dealt with by the Police under Dog Law and received a 12 month Control Order.

Hopefully, your dog won't one day run up to the wrong dog, get caught up in a scuffle or get hurt himself and then be scared of other dogs approaching him.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Ash296 said:


> ONE instance where I didn't see the person.


I take it you were in a densely wooded area or meandering footpath as opposed to a flat field, to have not seen him until you were practically on top of each other?


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Ash296 said:


> What about the 80% of dogs that approach mine then? I'm happy to not call the owners inconsiderate and with recognising body language, I am happy for them to do so.


So many lovely places have become no go zones due to off leash dogs with very little recall during the past year. I would love to let my dog have freedom again but it's just too risky just now sadly. Should we all just resort to pavement walking with our dogs to avoid getting into altercations?


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Lurcherlad said:


> No, I'm not sadly.
> 
> Yours may not, but dogs do RUN over (sometimes a distance the equivalent of the length of 3 football pitches), BARKING, YAPPING even GROWLING.
> 
> ...


But my dog does not do


simplysardonic said:


> I take it you were in a densely wooded area or meandering footpath as opposed to a flat field, to have not seen him until you were practically on top of each other?


I don't expect unsociable people with their counterpart dogs to walk up behind me. I've never had to constantly look over my shoulder thankfully. I now clearly do.


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## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

The person with the off lead dog is in the wrong, off lead dogs should not be approaching on lead dogs for a number of reasons.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

DanWalkersmum said:


> So many lovely places have become no go zones due to off leash dogs with very little recall during the past year. I would love to let my dog have freedom again but it's just too risky just now sadly. Should we all just resort to pavement walking with our dogs to avoid getting into altercations?


We don't have that problem here most dogs are pretty good, as is mine. This was an instance where somebody should reconsider where they take their fearful/aggressive dog.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> Yes.


OK, then assuming that these are all within easy walking distance for this gentleman then I find it a little odd that he would choose a park. However, he had as much right to be there as you did and it is still your responsibility to not allow your dog to interfere with other people and their dogs at the park.

This does not mean that you have to put your dog on-lead all the time. You've said yourself that he has a good recall so just keep an eye on him and check with people before allowing him to approach their dogs. Simples.


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## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

It sounds like you let your dog down by not being attentive enough.The other dog clearly didn't appear at lightening speed if s/he was being walked on the lead.Your dog is your responsibility at all times, it's not only rude,it can also be dangerous to let your dog approach other dogs randomly.You could have done untold damage to the other dog,who would clearly be on the lead for some reason.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Sairy said:


> OK, then assuming that these are all within easy walking distance for this gentleman then I find it a little odd that he would choose a park. However, he had as much right to be there as you did and it is still your responsibility to not allow your dog to interfere with other people and their dogs at the park.
> 
> This does not mean that you have to put your dog on-lead all the time. You've said yourself that he has a good recall so just keep an eye on him and check with people before allowing him to approach their dogs. Simples.


That's what I don't understand. He has chosen to take this dog to a well populated park and due to the variety of dogs children etc, he is risking a lot to the point where his dog could be put down if it attacks due to his poor choices.


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## Oldspot78 (Sep 15, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> I've never had to constantly look over my shoulder thankfully. I now clearly do.


Yeah, well I always do. Keeping a constant eye out for other people's off lead dogs....


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Ash296 said:


> I don't expect unsociable people with their counterpart dogs to walk up behind me. I've never had to constantly look over my shoulder thankfully. I now clearly do.


Welcome to my world, looking out for other inconsiderate dog owners & their poorly trained, antisocial offlead pets.

This is getting so convoluted, but in a nutshell, you were in the wrong on this occasion & this man has the right to exercise his dog where he chooses.


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Ash296 said:


> We don't have that problem here most dogs are pretty good, as is mine. This was an instance where somebody should reconsider where they take their fearful/aggressive dog.


Words fail me here. Now you know this dog is fearful it should be quite simple to get your "very good" dog to steer clear of him in future without too much trouble. End of, goodnight.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

DanWalkersmum said:


> Words fail me here. Now you know this dog is fearful it should be quite simple to get your "very good" dog to steer clear of him in future without too much trouble. End of, goodnight.


I did. Goodnight.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

The bottom line here is that if your dog had not instigated this by approaching the other dog, it would never have happened.

Can you imagine how you would feel if you were walking along the street, minding your own business, and a random stranger came up and hugged you? If you were unwell or afraid and this was part of your recuperation you would feel worse.

Thats how the other dog might have felt. The owner was just being his advocate by seeing off the nuisance.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

He should not have been walking towards mine then. If I had the intelligence of a dog, I would probably think that it's on it's way to see me too.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> That's what I don't understand. He has chosen to take this dog to a well populated park and due to the variety of dogs children etc, he is risking a lot to the point where his dog could be put down if it attacks due to his poor choices.


The dog hasn't attacked anyone though?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> He should not have been walking towards mine then. If I had the intelligence of a dog, I would probably think that it's on it's way to see me too.


Why not? Your dog approached him, he didn't approach your dog.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Sairy said:


> The dog hasn't attacked anyone though?


No just the man so far. It is a possibility though.


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## Monkeypuppy (Jan 5, 2021)

Ash296 said:


> That's what I don't understand. He has chosen to take this dog to a well populated park and due to the variety of dogs children etc, he is risking a lot to the point where his dog could be put down if it attacks due to his poor choices.


What "poor choices"? Why shouldn't he be allowed to take his dog for a walk on a lead through that park? You have no idea why he chose that park, and I can't think of a polite way to say that really it's none of your business. It's a public space and while there may be off lead dogs there, there's no rule to say you shouldn't be allowed to walk a dog on a lead through that park, uninterrupted.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Monkeypuppy said:


> What "poor choices"? Why shouldn't he be allowed to take his dog for a walk on a lead through that park? You have no idea why he chose that park, and I can't think of a polite way to say that really it's none of your business. It's a public space and while there may be off lead dogs there, there's no rule to say you shouldn't be allowed to walk a dog on a lead through that park, uninterrupted.


It is a very strange and pointless thing to do.


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## Ash296 (Feb 17, 2021)

Ash296 said:


> It is a very strange and pointless thing to do.


If it means that you are going to end up kicking somebody's dog, surely it is best to avoid places like this where you may end up injured yourself.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Ash296 said:


> This is demonstrating something different to what happened.


It's demonstrating that "just saying hi" is not normal or friendly behavior as you seem to believe. 
We have become confused lately over what a well socialized dog is. A well socialized dog is not magnetized to other dogs but rather dog neutral. In the same way that you would not rush to say hello and shake hands with everyone on a busy city bus, you get on, maybe nod or smile at someone, but otherwise ignore people and go about your business.
Dogs are no different. It's not appropriate to "say hi" to a dog just because there happens to be another dog in the vicinity. If the dog is a known friend, sure, but a strange dog that yours has never met? No, trotting up to him as if he's about to interact is not appropriate behavior.

Proper socialization is teaching your dog to be dog neutral. Other dogs are just other dogs. Not a playdate about to happen, not something to be scared of, just another dog.



Ash296 said:


> The rescue I used to have was attacked my other dogs also. I was smart enough to keep him away from other dogs.


Like the gentleman who kicked your dog was trying to do?



Ash296 said:


> I don't really want to tread on eggshells just because somebody isn't sensible enough to walk a fearful/aggressive dog in a place where it won't be an issue. But yes I will have to keep my dog on a lead now and he is going to become one of these dogs that hate other dogs just because he is prohibited from socialising with then.


 Please read what I wrote above about proper socialization. The goal is neutrality, not magnetization.



Ash296 said:


> We don't have that problem here most dogs are pretty good, as is mine. This was an instance where somebody should reconsider where they take their fearful/aggressive dog.


 Since you can't control the behavior of other people, control the behavior of you and your dog. 
If you don't want your dog attacked by other dogs or annoyed humans, don't allow him close enough to other dogs and other humans for them to do so. Easy


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

If your off lead dog ran upto my onlead dogs (always on lead as they're runners) I'd be hoofing, pushing, screaming at him to bugger off before he'd even got half way
One of mine is reactive to adult females and dogs with no manners barrelling up to 'be friendly'
She's not viscous, or bad mannered, she's no danger to humans or children, she's less than 18 inches high and has a very jolly, but witchy, outlook on life
My dogs would be onlead, completely under my control, and I'm like an owl looking out for those offlead Muppets, trying to keep them away, whilst their owners flap like seagulls, screaming they're friendly and that it has perfect recall 'except for this time'
My dogs lives, and tbh, my own, would be do much easier if all dogs were required to be on lead at all times
But
I'm aware that my dog is an exception
So I manage her, and she relaxes because she knows I WILL deal with it
Your dog blew his recall, so he obviously doesn't have 100% recall, therefor I suggest taking his training back, put him on a longline, and, retrain his recall
Also, whilst on the longline, so he has a modicum of freedom, you train him to have some manners, ignore other dogs and distractions and focus on you, not his ball, but you
And, finally,
You train yourself to give your dog your utmost attention
Knowing he'd gone behind you, you should've already have turned to have him in your sight, before he got to the other person and recall him BEFORE any altercation arises
IF the gentleman reported you for having an out of control dog, that rushed at him and he thought it was going to bite, so he lashed out (as you say) in fear of being bitten
You wouldn't have a leg to stand on
End of


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Ash296 said:


> No just the man so far. It is a possibility though.


It's also a possibility that your offlead dog may attack another.


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## Monkeypuppy (Jan 5, 2021)

Ash296 said:


> If it means that you are going to end up kicking somebody's dog, surely it is best to avoid places like this where you may end up injured yourself.


He wouldn't have had to if you'd called your dog away.

I love my dog but I don't particularly like dogs in general (no offense to anyone!) I think as a dog owner it's best to go by the view that although you love your dog to bit, no one else does and although you want your dog to be "sociable" not everyone else at the park wants to be sociable.

And its quite arrogant to think that it's "strange and pointless" for someone to want to use a park just because it happens to be different to how you use it.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

This thread is going round in circles. 

OP - you're in the wrong. Not the other owner. Not the on leashed dog. Not even your dog. You. Only you. End of.

:Locktopic


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