# Dog to Dog reactivity - Is it really that hard to fix?



## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Ive been working in dog training and behaviour full time since 2001. Prior to that I was always involved with animals. So for the last 49 years, my main focus has been dog and animal behaviour. During that time I have been involved with over 10,000 dogs and puppies and 15.000 people. 

One single behaviour problem stands out from the rest. Dog to dog reactivity. It stands out because a) its very common and b) its often very easy to fix and c) there are a number of misleading views surrounding it (in my opinion), that mean that many people struggle with it for years and years or never resolve it. 

Here are a few questions to ask yourself.

When a police dog reacts, to something, barking and lunging on lead at a criminal or a wrong doer, or someone that just needs moving on? Is it stressed? Is it frightened? Is it unhappy?

When a pet dog does the same is that stressed? Is it frightened? Is it unhappy?

When training a dog to react in this way on a lead, the police dog handler may have used a range of techniques. First they find something that the dog will react to - perhaps a man dressed oddly and behaving oddly, Then when the dog shows interest they either, praise and reward the dog (with whatever reward the dog wants) or they pull the dog back away from the 'weird man' creating frustration and therefore arousing the dog further. Or alternatively, if a dog seems worried or not confident, then the 'weird man' goes away as soon as the dog reacts, to give the dog the impression that it was its barking that made the weirdo retreat. n ego boost for an otherwise worried dog. 

Many of the training techniques offered to halt pet dog to dog reactivity actually mimic the process as above. ie They train IN reactivity. When the dog is reacting, if you get out the treats, ball, praise it, pull it away, say its name. vocalise at it, then it supports and encourages the reactivity. If the thing the dog is reacting at goes away whilst it is reacting (most dog owners take their dog away when they see a reactive dog), then that too reinforces and encourages the reactivity as it does with the police dog! 

The other fallacy that I see perpetuated on the internet is that a dog that is reactive is usually fearful, or stressed. That is not my experience. Is a reacting police dog fearful or stressed? Even if it is stressed does stress matter? Most dogs choose to have and face stress when they first venture out from the whelping box. Mild stress teaches us, and them, it strengthens us and them. 

Of course overwhelming stress or prolonged stress, can be very damaging, which is why if a dog is stressed then stopping that stress, rapidly, kindly and gently is crucial. 

I have talked of my technique that halts on lead reactivity in just a few minutes, many times before, always with the same result ... People have called me a liar, or cruel, or barbaric, or a child batterer, or any number of names and I've had death threats. Throughout that time, I have continued to resolve many dogs of their reactivity issue in just a few minutes. And I still do. I have now released the technique as a very small part of my forthcoming book. A Dog Behaviourist's Diary, which is currently at the printers and will be available in about 3 weeks . The book covers a range of problems not just reactivity to dogs and people.

We usually introduce the technique in a clinic environment with trained stooge dogs. But if you are experienced with dogs, and can understand logical training processes. Then there is every chance that you can take the technique , apply it at home, with similar success to that which we have. 

I don't think I'm allowed to link my website here. But if you are interested, there is a pre order option on my website which is my company website for CaDeLac dog training. There is also a group called A Dog Behaviourist's Diary on facebook, which previews 2 chapters (though not dog to dog reactivity). 
Best Regards, Denise


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

My dog isn't reactive, but a very overexcited greeter. I have found that getting him to sit and then firing treats into him whilst the other owner [hopefully] shoos their dog away is working and he has recently started checking with me when he sees another dog coming along. I know it's not exactly the same thing, but it's along the same lines and I do see it as a huge improvement that he will happily check with me now before trying to charge over. Obviously I am still trying to overcome the "oh bugger, I've run out of treats" obstacle.

Personally, I'm not a fan of letting him greet every dog out there and would far prefer he calmly greeted only the dogs that I know


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Guess it depends on the dog and why it's "reactive". Spen was easily fixed, he was a frustrated greeter. Rupert on the other hand...well I spent 8 years, countless hours and god knows how much money trying to resolve his issues with next to no success. Spen is a confident, stable dog with good bounce back. Rupert was a neurotic wreck who thought the world was out to get him and other dogs most of all and who lacked the ability to shake things off or bounce back from an unpleasant experience. Spencer just wanted to say hello and yelled with frustration when he couldn't. Rupert would have liked the other dog to disappear into thin air and if it got too close went all out to cause serious damage. Rupe was also not reactive in the sense people think of, he didn't bark and growl and snarl, didn't show teeth, didn't put on a big show. He simply waited quietly and once the dog was within range he attacked.

I actually took no precautions after Rupert was attacked (being attacked triggered his aggressive behaviour as it seems to with so many other dogs) as I believed that like previous dogs it wouldn't have any real effect on him, he'd just shake it off. We had a few incidents where he snapped at other dogs but I assumed that's as far as he'd go. That assumption resulted in him ripping the ear off a puppy that approached to say hello. He was muzzled after that. A couple of years later he traumatized a Doberman that ran up to have a pop at him in the street and whose owner thought it funny until his dog was under mine screaming in terror. Later he seriously injured a small dog that got past me while we were surrounded in the street by a group of 5 dogs. He'd actually stayed behind me and let me deal with the situation until I failed and the dog got past me.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> My dog isn't reactive, but a very overexcited greeter. I have found that getting him to sit and then firing treats into him whilst the other owner [hopefully] shoos their dog away is working and he has recently started checking with me when he sees another dog coming along. I know it's not exactly the same thing, but it's along the same lines and I do see it as a huge improvement that he will happily check with me now before trying to charge over. Obviously I am still trying to overcome the "oh bugger, I've run out of treats" obstacle.
> 
> Personally, I'm not a fan of letting him greet every dog out there and would far prefer he calmly greeted only the dogs that I know


Mifffymoo. For some dogs treat distraction can work, as you rightly pointed out though it only works if you have treats (and your dog is hungry enough). Sadly it doesn't actually stop the behaviour. You are right to stop him from meeting every dog he encounters. Dogs, like humans, need to learn that you cant just launch yourself into a relationship with everyone you meet !


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Sarah1983 said:


> Guess it depends on the dog and why it's "reactive". Spen was easily fixed, he was a frustrated greeter. Rupert on the other hand...well I spent 8 years, countless hours and god knows how much money trying to resolve his issues with next to no success. Spen is a confident, stable dog with good bounce back. Rupert was a neurotic wreck who thought the world was out to get him and other dogs most of all and who lacked the ability to shake things off or bounce back from an unpleasant experience. Spencer just wanted to say hello and yelled with frustration when he couldn't. Rupert would have liked the other dog to disappear into thin air and if it got too close went all out to cause serious damage. Rupe was also not reactive in the sense people think of, he didn't bark and growl and snarl, didn't show teeth, didn't put on a big show. He simply waited quietly and once the dog was within range he attacked.
> 
> I actually took no precautions after Rupert was attacked (being attacked triggered his aggressive behaviour as it seems to with so many other dogs) as I believed that like previous dogs it wouldn't have any real effect on him, he'd just shake it off. We had a few incidents where he snapped at other dogs but I assumed that's as far as he'd go. That assumption resulted in him ripping the ear off a puppy that approached to say hello. He was muzzled after that. A couple of years later he traumatized a Doberman that ran up to have a pop at him in the street and whose owner thought it funny until his dog was under mine screaming in terror. Later he seriously injured a small dog that got past me while we were surrounded in the street by a group of 5 dogs. He'd actually stayed behind me and let me deal with the situation until I failed and the dog got past me.


HI Sarah, as you say he didn't react in the sense of the word as most people understand it. He is in fact aggressive, by the sounds of it. Silent dogs that simply bite I class as aggressive. Dogs that lunge and leap and bark, I class as reactive.

I wish I had met this dog of yours that I hear so much about....


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Muttly is a frustrated greeter. He has been since the day I picked him up at 8 months old. We are his 3rd home and he was hardly walked and certainly not socialised when he was a pup.

I would so love for him to not do this, as once we get over this initial crazy greeting (as there are dogs that just ignore his behaviour or go submissive), he plays very well with other dogs of all shapes and sizes.

You have got me intrigued, however I'm not one to buy something on a 'want to see more, I'll give away my secret for just x amount of money' sales ploy 

I would be worried about the methods used and that I may not like them (being that you mentioned people have called you barbaric  )

I don't have facebook. I will find your website.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> HI Sarah, as you say he didn't react in the sense of the word as most people understand it. He is in fact aggressive, by the sounds of it. Silent dogs that simply bite I class as aggressive. Dogs that lunge and leap and bark, I class as reactive.
> 
> I wish I had met this dog of yours that I hear so much about....


Then my Jack Russell bitch is aggressive?

She doesn't bark or lunge at other dogs - she completely ignores them. She will walk, offlead, past any dog, coming with inches and doesn't react in any way. However, if a dog comes into her space, she will bite, without warning. I would add that I take care to avoid such situations.

I think a whole lot depends on how you define reactive/aggressive behaviour.

Why do you class dogs that lunge and bark as 'reactive'? A dog may be lunging and barking because it has a desire to kill the dog it's focused on. You don't class that as aggression?

As I say, my JR will bite without warning, yet only reacts that way to dogs that invade her space. She shows no desire whatsoever to initiate a fight with another dog. Why is that classed as aggressive, rather than reactive, behaviour?


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Mifffymoo. For some dogs treat distraction can work, as you rightly pointed out though it only works if you have treats (and your dog is hungry enough). *Sadly it doesn't actually stop the behaviour*. You are right to stop him from meeting every dog he encounters. Dogs, like humans, need to learn that you cant just launch yourself into a relationship with everyone you meet !


It can stop the behaviour  Have you heard of the care method? Many dogs have successfully become less / hardly reactive now at all because of this method.


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## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

...I wish you the best with your endeavours. I really do. If you can genuinely help dogs, then that's great.

I won't be buying your book, or using your technique. I've had a look at your website, and it just didn't sit right with me. You talk about positive, reward based training, but I just don't think physically restraining a dog can be called positive or reward based. And you call yourself a behaviourist, but I see no affiliation with any organisations. As we all know, anybody can call themselves a behaviourist so what you call yourself isn't wrong per se...but I think it's a bit misleading.
I dunno, your attitude just doesn't sit well with me. I don't like how you talk about dogs; carte blanche labelling dogs you have never met as aggressive based on one post. You have some interesting theories, but will then make a claim like "using treats doesn't stop reactivity". Which is a load of cr*p. It can stop it when used properly. And I still don't agree with your claim that most reactivity is not fear/lack of confidence based.

Don't worry about responding. We will both just have to agree to disagree. I just had to get this off my chest because it's been bugging me since last night. And I want people who may end up here to not be lulled into thinking that physically restraining their dog is the way to handle reactivity. It could get them bitten and their dog PTS.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Hanwombat said:


> It can stop the behaviour  Have you heard of the care method? Many dogs have successfully become less / hardly reactive now at all because of this method.


Nope not heard of it. One of the things I don't often read about is how to stop reactivity. So I don't tend to google it. Ill have a look though. I am always keen to read and or see other peoples approaches. Reactivity is such a huge problem for so many. Ill have a look at this method. I love learning ;-). Thank you for posting the heads up.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Kimmikins said:


> ...I wish you the best with your endeavours. I really do. If you can genuinely help dogs, then that's great.
> 
> I won't be buying your book, or using your technique. I've had a look at your website, and it just didn't sit right with me. You talk about positive, reward based training, but I just don't think physically restraining a dog can be called positive or reward based. And you call yourself a behaviourist, but I see no affiliation with any organisations. As we all know, anybody can call themselves a behaviourist so what you call yourself isn't wrong per se...but I think it's a bit misleading.
> I dunno, your attitude just doesn't sit well with me. I don't like how you talk about dogs; carte blanche labelling dogs you have never met as aggressive based on one post. You have some interesting theories, but will then make a claim like "using treats doesn't stop reactivity". Which is a load of cr*p. It can stop it when used properly. And I still don't agree with your claim that most reactivity is not fear/lack of confidence based.
> ...


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Yeah, no worries. Good luck with your dog. .


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Then my Jack Russell bitch is aggressive?
> 
> She doesn't bark or lunge at other dogs - she completely ignores them. She will walk, offlead, past any dog, coming with inches and doesn't react in any way. However, if a dog comes into her space, she will bite, without warning. I would add that I take care to avoid such situations.
> 
> ...


It really depends on the severity of the bite inflicted. If it is a nip that shocks but doesn't really injure, then that is different from injuries. e that is intended to injure, then I class that as protective of her space. And there is nothing wring with that. But if the bite is meant to injure then that isn't really necessary to protect a space usually. If that makes sense. I try wherever possible to not 'class something as' anything. Just to resolve it and help dog and owner see things more clearly.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Wow lots of things here to touch on. Hopefully this post won't be too discombobulated!

I constantly see dogs who's owners label them as reactive, dogs who I watch and think "he's not reactive, he just doesn't know what the behavior expectation are." So yes, a lot depends on what you mean by reactivity.

I'm not sure I like the label "aggressive" as an alternative to reactive either. For one, *behavior* is aggressive, dogs are dogs. Also, not all aggression is equal either. The dog who is giving a well deserved correction after multiple fair warnings, is not coming from the same place as the dog who is so terrified he resorts to biting trying to make the scary thing go away.

So there's that…

The other issue I'm seeing in this discussion is a confusion regarding conditioned responses and operant responses. If I understand my rudimentary behavior science correctly, all operant conditioning has an element of classical conditioning, but not the other way around.

Or more succinctly, "Pavlov is always on our shoulder."

any training we do is going to have an element of classical conditioning (we may not be aware of what we are conditioning in the dog, but it's happening).

Classical conditioning is the Pavlov experiment - bell + food eventually leads to an involuntary response (salivation). It's important to note that the salivation is not something the dog has any control over, it's not a learned behavior or even a choice (operant conditioning), it's an involuntary response to a stimulus.

This morning I had a an involuntary response to skunk smell. I have a dog who has been skunked more times than I care to think about. Skunkings are horrible very bad things that lead to lots of extra work, stress and upset in our household and just plain suck.

I drive by run-over skunks and the associated smell all the time and don't have a reaction. But this morning, I had both dogs with me, and a whiff of skunk spray was enough to send my heart racing, my muscles tightened, and I basically had a tiny panic response. In my operant brain I was able to tell myself to breathe, relax, and think rationally, but that initial heart race and adrenaline dump was completely out of my control. The smell triggered a completely involuntary response.

In dog training we most often talk about CER (conditioned emotional response) which is basically what happened to me when I smelled the skunk. My dogs have a CER to seeing any of us pick up dog bowls. They have a CER to seeing me pack up the training bag and get their gear together. Some dogs have a CER to seeing nail clippers or ear medicine (and it's not a positive CER).

Ideally when you train behaviors you are also conditioning a positive emotion response to that behavior. Owners most often see this when they train fun tricks that the dog enjoys doing. That cute high five that the dog likes and elicits a lot of laughs and praise is a behavior that not only is rewarded operantly, but quite literally *feels* good to the dog as well.

Unfortunately we also condition negative emotional responses to behaviors all the time without even realizing it. Whatever emotional state your dog is in when they learn a behavior, or when they practice a behavior a lot, is the emotional state that will get conditioned right along with that behavior. So the dog who is slightly apprehensive in a crowded training hall, who is taught a sit in that training hall, is going to associate apprehension with the behavior of sitting. The dog who is overly stressed by confusing handling, is going to start associating that stressful feeling with that handler. Pavlov is always on our shoulder.

This is where I have to address the "distraction with treats" comment. Treats are not used as a distraction, in fact using treats (food) this way can absolutely backfire and cause the dog to form negative associations with treats of any kind.

No, treats are used as part of a good DS/CC protocol that addresses the dog's emotional state. This piece is critical to effective DS/CC and one of the biggest reasons it can fail. Suzanne Clothier explains it far better than I ever could. Well worth a watch here:






So, going back to that reactivity thing. If you have a dog who doesn't have a strong negative CER to other dogs, who's just lunging on leash because they have been inadvertently taught to do so with poor handling (unintentional operant conditioning), then yeah, you simply apply some combination of your four quadrants of learning theory and re-train a more appropriate behavior around other dogs. That's probably going to include some form of punishment (my preference would be negative punishment) where it is clear to the dog that the lunging is not the behavior that's going to pay, and an alternate behavior will - with the alternate behavior being heavily rewarded. So sure, do your R+/P- and reframe that picture for the dog. For most dogs with decent handling this is a super fast process. Lunge, nope, pay attention to me, good. Rinse and repeat. Done in no time.

And here I'm thinking about the technique of covering the dog's ears and eyes - I wonder if for some dogs that might even be negative punishment? Removal of something they want in order to make the behavior decrease. Like dogs with FOMO (fear of missing out) who have to be involved in anything and everything going on. These dogs would definitely find removal of their visual and aural senses punishing.

To be clear, I have no issue with judicious use of punishment, especially negative punishment, that's not a criticism of the method, just an observation.

However to me, a dog who has unintentionally learned to lunge at other dogs is not "reactivity". To me reactivity is a dog who is having a strong negative CER to the stimulus of another dog. In this case you can operant condition all day long, and you may even get good behaviors out of it, but you will still always have that underlying involuntary emotional response, that is likely to leak out in other ways. In these cases you really do have to address the related CER through an effective CC/DS protocol.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Wow lots of things here to touch on. Hopefully this post won't be too discombobulated!
> 
> I constantly see dogs who's owners label them as reactive, dogs who I watch and think "he's not reactive, he just doesn't know what the behavior expectation are." So yes, a lot depends on what you mean by reactivity.
> 
> ...


Did you see the videos? If so, how did the dog look before and afterwards? That to me, is what ,matters.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Did you see the videos? If so, how did the dog look before and afterwards? That to me, is what ,matters.


I had to search your FB page for the "after" video and a short clip of the process itself which I believe was about 15 seconds. 15 seconds of training is not enough for me to form an opinion either way really.

But I have to ask you, did you even read my post?
You posted a response 7 minutes after I posted a very lengthy reply that included a 5 minute video. I have made the effort to read your posts and watch clips you have posted even searching further for more clips in an effort to try and understand what you are trying to explain. 
It would be nice if you could offer me the same courtesy.


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## Poundingpaws (Nov 28, 2012)

ouesi said:


> This is where I have to address the "distraction with treats" comment. Treats are not used as a distraction, in fact using treats (food) this way can absolutely backfire and cause the dog to form negative associations with treats of
> 
> So, going back to that reactivity thing. If you have a dog who doesn't have a strong negative CER to other dogs, who's just lunging on leash because they have been inadvertently taught to do so with poor handling (unintentional operant conditioning), then yeah, you simply apply some combination of your four quadrants of learning theory and re-train a more appropriate behavior around other dogs. That's probably going to include some form of punishment (my preference would be negative punishment) where it is clear to the dog that the lunging is not the behavior that's going to pay, and an alternate behavior will - with the alternate behavior being heavily rewarded. So sure, do your R+/P- and reframe that picture for the dog. For most dogs with decent handling this is a super fast process. Lunge, nope, pay attention to me, good. Rinse and repeat. Done in no time.


So for all us average dog owners with poor handling skills and atrocious timing that have struggled with reactive dogs for years it's a a super fast process done in no time?

I am an experienced dog owner, trained my dogs in agility, obedience, tricks and working sheep. I work with dogs in a professional capacity, some of which are reactive, some of which are fearful of handling or strangers. I have worked tirelessly for years to overcome Polo's reactivity, attending reactive dog classes using the commonly accepted techniques. I'm not saying my timing is spot on but I'm not way off either, so less experienced handlers have no chance.

I attended an aggressive dog workshop and the instructor was prepared for an under stimulated dog with poor impulse control and an inexperienced handler to enter so was surprised when I brought Polo in to show off his weaves and drop on recall and basically a dog that came in and entertained the audience with his tricks.

We tried something different. It works quickly and we are delighted.

I actually find your comments quite insulting.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Juno is/was prone to the occasional barking outburst especially in class, totally frustration related in her case as she's dog friendly, and this is the method I was told to use which does indeed work as stated.

"Reactivity" is such an overused blanket term these days, used to describe everything from frustrated greeters to dogs that are downright aggressive, thus not 'reactive' IMO. The methods used surely depend on the problem, the extent of the problem, the skills of the handler and the physical limitations on the handler? I think it is so difficult to generalise give that every case is different. 

With fear reactive dogs it's a different ball game, but then I also look at many of the things suggested to 'rehabilitate' a fear reactive dog via counter conditioning, and think how realistic is that for the average owner? if you live in an urban area and/or don't have easy access to miles of rolling fields, then how DO you keep a reactive dog permanently under threshold? short of getting in the car and only driving to very specific locations to an environment you still cannot control, I suspect that is very difficult for most people. Then I often see advised to give dogs 'breaks' and not be taken out for weeks at a time - how does that work if you live in a flat, or have a tiny garden, or simply have a very high energy dog that would not cope well with no exercise for weeks while on it's "break"? while these methods may be plausible for the very dedicated owner, who lives in a practical location, unfortunately you can very easily see why many will resort to a quick fix.......(I'm not referring to Denise's method but aversives like prong collars, e-collars etc).

Let's face it, there is TONS of conflicting information out there and not a one size fits all.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Then my Jack Russell bitch is aggressive?
> 
> She doesn't bark or lunge at other dogs - she completely ignores them. She will walk, offlead, past any dog, coming with inches and doesn't react in any way. However, if a dog comes into her space, she will bite, without warning. I would add that I take care to avoid such situations.
> 
> ...





ouesi said:


> I had to search your FB page for the "after" video and a short clip of the process itself which I believe was about 15 seconds. 15 seconds of training is not enough for me to form an opinion either way really.
> 
> But I have to ask you, did you even read my post?
> You posted a response 7 minutes after I posted a very lengthy reply that included a 5 minute video. I have made the effort to read your posts and watch clips you have posted even searching further for more clips in an effort to try and understand what you are trying to explain.
> It would be nice if you could offer me the same courtesy.


Yes I read your post. No I didn't watch the video.

You say you can not decide on something that only takes 1 seconds, but that 15 seconds of training was all it took, to resolve the problem . That is the whole point! I cant prolong the training period after the dog has stopped reacting .. . Sorry. 

I didn't come on here to have my ear bent in every direction, I came on here to offer a highly viable and fast solution to long term and troublesome dog behaviour which may have been unresponsive to other methods.

If people like it fine, if they don't, fine.

My role is to offer solutions where I can and to educate. That is my job. If its not welcome here, then no worries, .


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

God I'm confused.

I think Muttly is a frustrated greeter, however there is another behaviour going on, when he does get to meet dogs. Some say "It's a Terrier thing" others pull their dogs away like he's a Parana.

This response isn't triggered by all dogs though, so either Muttly is one of the most in tune dogs in the world as far as other dogs are concerned, or there is something else, perhaps a confident thing happening.
Something happened last night which I'm going to post about as it's a behaviour condundrum!

I do find @ouesi 's post very interesting and believe Muttly is described in the last paragraph. But I'm not sure what 'DS' is or who Pavlov is?


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Bigby is most certainly a frustrated greeter BUT I do think that I have contributed to it and as Ouesi mentioned, I have probably helped teach him that this is what he does - absolutely fine off lead but on lead he sees a dog and hes lunging, barking, crying etc.. occasionally does it with cats, birds, horses, sheep, deer and hoomans too!

Generally its dogs, but he isn't half as bad as he was.. he used to see a dog and then 10 minutes after the dog had gone he'd still be frustrated but now literally as soon as we pass the dog he pretty much calms down but his reactiveness at dogs is also improving.

Hes still very immature though at 20 months too which I think heightens it.

We use the CARE method with him.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Muttly is a frustrated greeter. He has been since the day I picked him up at 8 months old. We are his 3rd home and he was hardly walked and certainly not socialised when he was a pup.
> 
> I would so love for him to not do this, as once we get over this initial crazy greeting (as there are dogs that just ignore his behaviour or go submissive), he plays very well with other dogs of all shapes and sizes.
> 
> ...


Actually it isn't a sales ploy . I came on here as there was a conversation going on the forum about me and my method and my book. I came on here to respond to that and whilst here I posted a post which gives information.

I don't know what people expect? You seem to think that something which took 15000 words to write, can be condensed into a single forum post that explains everything about the technique and who it suits and who it doesn't, and when it will work and how it works, and why it works. I wouldn't have written 15000 words about it if I thought it could be explained in a few hundred.

It is a technique which has been successful with many dogs. It is not a technique that is well known as I discovered it myself though I have since discovered 2 other people who use it, one in Oz and the other in the UK. It isn't positive or negative as such, it is entirely subjective. The subject being the dog.

If you wish to ask any questions then feel free, but I can not explain something that took 15000 words to explain in a single post. The videos are available to watch on facebook, but as you do not have facebook, let me know if you wish to see them and I will see if I can manage to email them to you. or post them on here.

For those that are pointing out that they WONT be buying my book, then that's fine, No one said you have to. This is a unusually effective technique, that consistently helps dogs and owners. It is available in the book alongside information of many other behaviours and dog world related subjects. It is selling better than Id ever hoped so far, even though it has yet to be published. It doesn't matter to me if people from this forum don buy it.

Using only chapters from the book, (released to them prior to publication of the book) several dogs have bow been helped over their reactivity issues, one of who was being trained for service dog work a very experienced and respected trainer. She is endorsing the technique for me and writing a review on the book.

Th release of this book basically means that some (though not all) dog owners who have reactive dogs will be able to take what they learn. Apply if to their dog and from that point forward both dog and handler will have a happier, calmer, more friendly time when they meet other dogs on lead. There is no crime in sharing something that will help many!

I am beginning to wish I hadn't ever come back on this forum. It is on the whole an unfriendly place...Towards me at least. Not to worry, everyday is a school day


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Hanwombat said:


> Bigby is most certainly a frustrated greeter BUT I do think that I have contributed to it and as Ouesi mentioned, I have probably helped teach him that this is what he does - absolutely fine off lead but on lead he sees a dog and hes lunging, barking, crying etc.. occasionally does it with cats, birds, horses, sheep, deer and hoomans too!
> 
> Generally its dogs, but he isn't half as bad as he was.. he used to see a dog and then 10 minutes after the dog had gone he'd still be frustrated but now literally as soon as we pass the dog he pretty much calms down but his reactiveness at dogs is also improving.
> 
> ...


Hanwombat. great to hear you are making progress. Its always great to overcome a challenge and see life get better. Well done!


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> God I'm confused.
> 
> I think Muttly is a frustrated greeter, however there is another behaviour going on, when he does get to meet dogs. Some say "It's a Terrier thing" others pull their dogs away like he's a Parana.
> 
> ...


I don't understand your first paragraph _ I don't think you described exactly what happened, so am stuck to help I'm afraid. Pavlov, is a scientist who did some work on dog behaviour, DS is a technical term, it means Desensitization, which is the process of allowing a dog to slowly become accustomed to a thing.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Actually it isn't a sales ploy . I came on here as there was a conversation going on the forum about me and my method and my book. I came on here to respond to that and whilst here I posted a post which gives information.
> 
> I don't know what people expect? You seem to think that something which took 15000 words to write, can be condensed into a single forum post that explains everything about the technique and who it suits and who it doesn't, and when it will work and how it works, and why it works. I wouldn't have written 15000 words about it if I thought it could be explained in a few hundred.
> 
> ...


Hi Denise,

I didn't mean for you to give me the info for free at all. But I was a bit lost on the whole 'some people have called me barbaric' well I would like some kind of info (sorry if I missed it) as to what sort of technique you do use as I am not willing to use forceful or restraining actions on my lil lad. So if the method was this sort of thing, then it would be a waste of money to me.
If it's positive, then great. Is your book available on Kobo?

I would love to see the video please yes


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Hi Denise,
> 
> I didn't mean for you to give me the info for free at all. But I was a bit lost on the whole 'some people have called me barbaric' well I would like some kind of info (sorry if I missed it) as to what sort of technique you do use as I am not willing to use forceful or restraining actions on my lil lad. So if the method was this sort of thing, then it would be a waste of money to me.
> If it's positive, then great. Is your book available on Kobo?
> ...


The technique uses a head hug and a repositioning of the body. It relies on the dog being held still in the same way that it is when one grooms it or does a health check or removes thorns or lugs. When a dog is held in a familiar way (it is used to being groomed, handled, petted, having thorns removed) then the emotional feelings associated with that process is adopted in the reactivity situation. So, if your dog likes being handled, it is highly likely to work in a few seconds, if it doesn't it probably wont work so well.

I'm not entirely sure how to load videos here, but I will have a go. If I manage it then the first one you see will be of the reactivity assessment. We allow the dogs to do whatever they do in order that we can establish if their reactivity it friendly, unfriendly, fear based, handbags at dawn based, etc, so that we can decide on which process to follow. ill try to post a video, please bear with me.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Hi Denise,
> 
> I didn't mean for you to give me the info for free at all. But I was a bit lost on the whole 'some people have called me barbaric' well I would like some kind of info (sorry if I missed it) as to what sort of technique you do use as I am not willing to use forceful or restraining actions on my lil lad. So if the method was this sort of thing, then it would be a waste of money to me.
> If it's positive, then great. Is your book available on Kobo?
> ...


I've never heard of kobo I'm afraid, It is being published in both paperback and ebook version.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Poundingpaws said:


> So for all us average dog owners with poor handling skills and atrocious timing that have struggled with reactive dogs for years it's a a super fast process done in no time?
> 
> I am an experienced dog owner, trained my dogs in agility, obedience, tricks and working sheep. I work with dogs in a professional capacity, some of which are reactive, some of which are fearful of handling or strangers. I have worked tirelessly for years to overcome Polo's reactivity, attending reactive dog classes using the commonly accepted techniques. I'm not saying my timing is spot on but I'm not way off either, so less experienced handlers have no chance.
> 
> ...


Why would you find my comments insulting?
You just said what you tried worked quickly right? I am agreeing that I can totally see how a good re-training of what is expected in the presence of other dogs can work very quickly.

I have repeatedly said I am NOT criticizing this method @CaDeLac Denise has come up with - I don't know enough about it to form an opinion either way. If it worked for you great, but I'm not going to form an opinion on it based on three video clips of 15 to 30 seconds. I think that's fair isn't it?



CaDeLac Denise said:


> I don't know what people expect? You seem to think that something which took 15000 words to write, can be condensed into a single forum post that explains everything about the technique and who it suits and who it doesn't, and when it will work and how it works, and why it works. I wouldn't have written 15000 words about it if I thought it could be explained in a few hundred.


I don't think anyone expects you to re-write your book here. 
Your method came up because one of your clients obviously found it very successful and has spoken about having found a successful method - it came up on that thread you found. 
However @Poundingpaws always refused to talk about it, saying she was not at liberty to discuss it. Which I (and others) found odd. 
I've attended my share of workshops and seminars and have never been told not to discuss anything I learned or share it with others. In fact with my dog training friends we all have an unspoken agreement that anyone who goes to a seminar has to take copious notes to share with those who can't go. So I just found it odd that she was so hush hush about it. In fact I even said my guess was the trainer was probably fine with it being discussed which clearly you are. 
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/...y-behaved-dogs.418387/page-12#post-1064418618

However, I don't feel I understand it enough to form an opinion. I suspect the "meat" of the method is blocking the reactive behavior (which sounds like it's done with a collar grab that also covers the ears and eyes), but I also suspect that any form of blocking/redirecting and yes, negatively punishing the lunging behavior would work effectively and quickly. I've seen overexcited dogs very quickly learn not to lunge and bark by simply being removed from the fun stimuli. A quick, "nope, you don't get to be here if you're going to act like that" is all it takes. 
But as mentioned numerous times now, it all depends on what is causing the "reactive" behavior.

In any case, I'm not here to criticize anyone, just joining the conversation. And just because I love Einstein and it's applicable:


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Videos:
Assessment:
https://www.facebook.com/denise.c.mcleod/videos/vb.616267782/10154332815302783/?type=2&theater

Technique:
https://www.facebook.com/denise.c.mcleod/videos/vb.616267782/10154332834192783/?type=2&theater

End result:
https://www.facebook.com/denise.c.mcleod/videos/vb.616267782/10154332854802783/?type=2&theater


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

The advice for a lot of things out there isn't practical for the average owner to be honest. I often wonder whether professional dog trainers/behaviourists have ever actually lived in the real world. I mean yeah, the things they say are great in theory but for many of us they're either extremely impractical or downright impossible. I've always fallen down when it comes to stooge dogs (both with reactivity and things like recall) because good luck finding like minded dog owners to help you train!

I've seen Denises method in action and seen just how quickly it worked on a couple of dogs so can well believe that 15 seconds is all it took. I doubt it's going to work that quickly on every dog. Or be the right method for all dogs. But it definitely works quickly for some dogs.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Why would you find my comments insulting?
> You just said what you tried worked quickly right? I am agreeing that I can totally see how a good re-training of what is expected in the presence of other dogs can work very quickly.
> 
> I have repeatedly said I am NOT criticizing this method @CaDeLac Denise has come up with - I don't know enough about it to form an opinion either way. If it worked for you great, but I'm not going to form an opinion on it based on three video clips of 15 to 30 seconds. I think that's fair isn't it?
> ...


Pounding paws was asked not to discuss it for one reason and one reason only. An assessment on the digs viability and suitability has to be done. In the book I have written up how that is best assessed. There is of course a risk of redirection in some dogs. Which means that an explanation for how to assess viability needs to be done, prior to the technique being explained.

As for Einsteins quote then I can explain it simply. It is a process that uses a pre conditioned emotional response to replace the underlying emotion with another more passive one. It replaces the incoming stimulus with more acceptable ones to the dog, and in so doing gives the dog a window in which to evaluate whether a reaction is actually required.

As for your not being able to evaluate something from just a few seconds of video, I repeat, there is not more video, because it often only takes a few seconds! That was it. Job done. In total an hour long appointment, including interview of background, assessment of reactivity level and type, training owner in use of technique, exposing dog to one stooge, applying technique, exposing to second stooge, applying technique The reactive behaviour dissolved, The dog was introduced to a room full of other dogs. The calmness of the Pre conditioned emotional response is evident. Having left clinic, the dog is no longer reactive, unless a dog gives cause for it to be so. This technique allows for dogs to react if they need to defend themselves or tell of a rude or obnoxious dog. It simply makes them feel calm enough in the presence of another dog to evaluate whether a reaction is necessary.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Videos:
> Assessment:
> https://www.facebook.com/denise.c.mcleod/videos/vb.616267782/10154332815302783/?type=2&theater
> 
> ...


Oh thank you for uploading the links! That is very helpful of you . I'm Shite with technology and was really struggling. Much appreciated .


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> I do find @ouesi 's post very interesting and believe Muttly is described in the last paragraph. But I'm not sure what 'DS' is or who Pavlov is?


DS/CC = desensitization and counter conditioning. The video I posted from Suzanne Clothier explains it very well, and also covers why it might not work.

Pavlov was a Russian scientist on which a lot of behavioral science is based, you probably read about him in school. He was the guy who made the dogs salivate by ringing a bell before feeding them. The bell eventually caused them to salivate even without the presence of food. This is called classical conditioning, an INvoluntary response to a stimulus. Operant conditioning is a voluntary response to a stimulus which is the basis of training behaviors (sit, down, stay etc.). 
The point I was trying to make is that whenever we teach behaviors through operant conditioning, we are also teaching an involuntary response to that cue for that behavior. Hearing "sit" (in a dog who has been trained to sit on cue) will elicit an emotional response in the dog - hopefully a good one as the dog anticipates an opportunity for reinforcement. However it can also elicit a negative emotional response if the dog has formed negative associations with the cue.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Videos:
> Assessment:
> https://www.facebook.com/denise.c.mcleod/videos/vb.616267782/10154332815302783/?type=2&theater
> 
> ...


Ouesi. I think the third video you posted is the same as the second one....
Thanks


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Ouesi. I think the third video you posted is the same as the second one....
> Thanks


Edited, see if it works now.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Sarah1983 said:


> The advice for a lot of things out there isn't practical for the average owner to be honest. I often wonder whether professional dog trainers/behaviourists have ever actually lived in the real world. I mean yeah, the things they say are great in theory but for many of us they're either extremely impractical or downright impossible. I've always fallen down when it comes to stooge dogs (both with reactivity and things like recall) because good luck finding like minded dog owners to help you train!
> 
> I've seen Denises method in action and seen just how quickly it worked on a couple of dogs so can well believe that 15 seconds is all it took. I doubt it's going to work that quickly on every dog. Or be the right method for all dogs. But it definitely works quickly for some dogs.


Sarah, With one exception it works in just a few seconds. That exception was a dog who was used to fighting (imported rescue street dog), It took about 5 minutes and about 15 repetitions with that dog. All the rest where in seconds. Dogs are highly logical creatures. they understand things a lot quicker and easier than most humans. If something is being halted and after being halted it FEELS better - especially if they didn't want the job of being reactive in the first place, as most don't, then they can adopt it very quickly indeed! If someone says to me, right from now on you don't have to go to the dentist anymore. I feel relieved, I say ok, I don't go. It takes half a second at most to decide that something that feels nicer, is nicer and therefore do it that way.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Pounding paws was asked not to discuss it for one reason and one reason only. An assessment on the digs viability and suitability has to be done. In the book I have written up how that is best assessed. There is of course a risk of redirection in some dogs. Which means that an explanation for how to assess viability needs to be done, prior to the technique being explained.


I still don't see why it couldn't be discussed with the simple disclaimer that the dog has to be thoroughly assessed by a professional first. 
People discuss bite sport training all the time, which is not something you would want to do with an unsuitable dog, but the training methods are still all out there, up for discussion.



CaDeLac Denise said:


> As for Einsteins quote then I can explain it simply. It is a process that uses a pre conditioned emotional response to replace the underlying emotion with another more passive one. It replaces the incoming stimulus with more acceptable ones to the dog, and in so doing gives the dog a window in which to evaluate whether a reaction is actually required.


So as I suspected, the actual head hold where you cover the ears and eyes is not really the "meat" it's just physically blocking the dog in some way or another.
In other words, in a head shy dog, I could simply turn them around facing away from the trigger, apply the same principles and achieve the same result.
Or in a class I could put up a screen and position the dog behind the screen every time he reacts, again achieving the same results yes?



CaDeLac Denise said:


> As for your not being able to evaluate something from just a few seconds of video, I repeat, there is not more video, because it often only takes a few seconds! That was it. Job done. In total an hour long appointment, including interview of background, assessment of reactivity level and type, training owner in use of technique, exposing dog to one stooge, applying technique, exposing to second stooge, applying technique The reactive behaviour dissolved, The dog was introduced to a room full of other dogs. The calmness of the Pre conditioned emotional response is evident. Having left clinic, the dog is no longer reactive, unless a dog gives cause for it to be so. This technique allows for dogs to react if they need to defend themselves or tell of a rude or obnoxious dog. It simply makes them feel calm enough in the presence of another dog to evaluate whether a reaction is necessary.


Let me put it this way. I don't disbelieve that the method works. In fact I'm quite sure it does with dogs who are not fearful or otherwise upset by other dogs.
I have opinions on the videos I've seen. And feel it would be unfair of me to share those opinions without seeing more than one dog in only a few seconds of training.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> I still don't see why it couldn't be discussed with the simple disclaimer that the dog has to be thoroughly assessed by a professional first.
> People discuss bite sport training all the time, which is not something you would want to do with an unsuitable dog, but the training methods are still all out there, up for discussion.
> 
> So as I suspected, the actual head hold where you cover the ears and eyes is not really the "meat" it's just physically blocking the dog in some way or another.
> ...


I cant just put a disclaimer that it needs assessing by a professional first as to the best o my knowledge there are only two other trainers in the world using the technique and therefore qualified to assess for its use. That means 2 trainers in the UK and one in OZ.

Not it isn't a matter of simply turning the dog around so it cant see the trigger. The method relies on a pre trained emotional response that is activiated by touching the collar.

Also, if you just turn a dog around, then it can still manoeuvre its head to see the target. If we have a head shy dog we do not use this technique. IF the dog can still see the stimulus of the other dog, then the emotional response that is activated is the one associated with the visual stimulus of another dog. ie reactivity. I'm sorry I cant seem to get the hang of this quoting thing. to respond in turn to each comment.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Also, if you just turn a dog around, then it can still manoeuvre its head to see the target.


I can turn my dog around, put his head next to my thigh (he's a big dog), hold his head against my thigh with one hand and keep him there. Done. 
He loves being touched, he loves contact with me, this whole process would be pleasant for him, and in the meantime I'm also giving him the message that yes, I know your nemesis aussie is giving you the eye, yes I know he deserves to die for that, but it ain't happening, so chill.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> I still don't see why it couldn't be discussed with the simple disclaimer that the dog has to be thoroughly assessed by a professional first.
> People discuss bite sport training all the time, which is not something you would want to do with an unsuitable dog, but the training methods are still all out there, up for discussion.
> 
> So as I suspected, the actual head hold where you cover the ears and eyes is not really the "meat" it's just physically blocking the dog in some way or another.
> ...


Using screens in class would not have the same affect, as again, the trigger for a calmer emotional response, the touch of the handler, is absent. But more importantly, using a screen n class, will not allow the handler to resolve the problem away from the screen and class environment. The beauty of this technique is its simplicity. most handlers can do it, there are no tools required, there is no other person needed to be present.

The reason that many people can speak freely about bite work training is that most of those are not actually dog trainers and therefore not subject to potential libellous claims as a dog trainer is. Additionally bite work training has been around for a long time and many are familiar with it so no 'one person' would be accountable if it went wrong. As things can go wrong whenever dog is involved. To the best of my knowledge no one else has published on the technique that I have published and therefore it will easily be assumed that I am responsible for any outcome. Therefore in line with common sense and responsibility I have tried to make it clear and safe for use via the general populous. So far, of the people who have tried it (following only my writing and no other input from me) 3 out of 4 have reported very good or excellent results. One dog that has a genetic predisposition to aggression has a varied response and I am awaiting a video of that dog, to offer recommendations.

This technique is not for every dog or owner. I make that quite clear, but I have estimated that of all my cases, 80% are suitable for the technique and of those 80% around 80% will go onto have a 100 or near 100% total recovery from their former reactivity.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> I've never heard of kobo I'm afraid, It is being published in both paperback and ebook version.


A Kobo, is like a Kindle, only cheaper


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> I can turn my dog around, put his head next to my thigh (he's a big dog), hold his head against my thigh with one hand and keep him there. Done.
> He loves being touched, he loves contact with me, this whole process would be pleasant for him, and in the meantime I'm also giving him the message that yes, I know your nemesis aussie is giving you the eye, yes I know he deserves to die for that, but it ain't happening, so chill.


NO! That is not how the technique works. That may work for you and your dog or for some dogs and owner but that is not how my technique works. The most important part is when to release the dog - you are aiming for repetitions, not a single hold. The dog is released at the critical point where its body relaxes. Then it is allowed to turn back and react if it choses, then the technique is repeated.

The repetitions are necessary for the dog to realise that its reactivity is pointless an ineffective, but that disengaging from its reactive emotional state and attaching to a calmer state is the way forward. You are aiming for maximum number of repetitions as quickly as possible. It usually only takes a few, sometimes 5, Once it took around 15 but with most it takes under 5. You are giving the dog a CHOICE. You exposes it to the CHOICE several times so that it realises that it has a choice

if you simply hold the dog against you there is no choice!


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> NO! That is not how the technique works. That may work for you and your dog or for some dogs and owner but that is not how my technique works. The most important part is when to release the dog - you are aiming for repetitions, not a single hold. The dog is released at the critical point where its body relaxes. Then it is allowed to turn back and react if it choses, then the technique is repeated.
> 
> The repetitions are necessary for the dog to realise that its reactivity is pointless an ineffective, but that disengaging from its reactive emotional state and attaching to a calmer state is the way forward. You are aiming for maximum number of repetitions as quickly as possible. It usually only takes a few, sometimes 5, Once it took around 15 but with most it takes under 5. You are giving the dog a CHOICE. You exposes it to the CHOICE several times so that it realises that it has a choice
> 
> if you simply hold the dog against you there is no choice!


The dog in question is 80 pounds, his head is bigger than mine, and he's definitely stronger than me. Believe me, allowing me to hold his head against my thigh is a choice on his part 

Your video shows ONE repetition of the head hold. Now you're saying it takes at least a few repetitions. Again, why I chose not to opine on the videos posted.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Let me put it this way. I don't disbelieve that the method works. In fact I'm quite sure it does with dogs who are not fearful or otherwise upset by other dogs.
> .


It works brilliantly with fearful dogs in most cases. It works for people reactivity and cat reactivity too - though its much more challenging with cats as you need stooge cats to start it off.

With fearful dogs, it halts the escalation of fear and replaces the emotional state with a calm comfortable one. It can take longer to 1--% generalise, but it still works really well in many cases. We currently have a GSD in class. She came in as a behaviour case, people and dog reactive. She reacted on sight to either at any distance and had been doing so for 6 years. She had been to 5 other trainers if I recall correctly (and this is not an attempt to slag other trainers off), we applied the technique at point of reaction and over a period of three weeks, with repetitions, in every environment her fear began to subside. The owner is beside herself at the change in her dog.

one of the features of the technique is that there is an overall calming of behaviour in every arena. The dog generally is happier and calmer. Exercise is often increased once reactivity is halted and the biggest thing of all s the change in owner attitude. This feed the dogs. Confidence and calmness feeds of each other and both dog and handler have their burdens lifted.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> The dog in question is 80 pounds, his head is bigger than mine, and he's definitely stronger than me. Believe me, allowing me to hold his head against my thigh is a choice on his part
> 
> Your video shows ONE repetition of the head hold. Now you're saying it takes at least a few repetitions. Again, why I chose not to opine on the videos posted.


I am quite sure you can appreciate that each dog owner combination is different. How long does it take you to teach a class of puppies to do a sit _ it depends on the dog and owner.

To be fair, I wasn't looking for opinions, so don't worry about it. I was looking to offer immediate and effective help to those that want it . I've had some fairly high brow trainers and behaviour folks assess this technique now and the views are all the same. It works, But it isn't necessarily going to make those people whose technique require sustained ongoing effort and financial outlay, very happy.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> I am quite sure you can appreciate that each dog owner combination is different. How long does it take you to teach a class of puppies to do a sit _ it depends on the dog and owner.
> 
> To be fair, I wasn't looking for opinions, so don't worry about it. I was looking to offer immediate and effective help to those that want it . I've had some fairly high brow trainers and behaviour folks assess this technique now and the views are all the same. It works, But it isn't necessarily going to make those people whose technique require sustained ongoing effort and financial outlay, very happy.


That's twice now you've made comments about other trainers and their methods. 
Is that what you think this is about? People are afraid their income might be threatened by your "unique" method? If so, I think you highly misjudge the entire dog training industry LOL.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> . I've had some fairly high brow trainers and behaviour folks assess this technique now and the views are all the same. It works, But it isn't necessarily going to make those people whose technique require sustained ongoing effort and financial outlay, very happy.


Really disappointed in this comment.

It is similar to those who accuse vets of only selling foods because they get commission on it (they do not); advising neutering because it is financially lucrative for them etc etc.

Most of the reputable trainers I know generally belong to one or more professional bodies, most of which have a Code of Conduct/Practice to which they must adhere.

These normally include the requirement to act with integrity.

To accuse fellow professionals of exploiting clients for their own advantage is somewhat less than professional IMHO

Which is another point in most codes of practice............................

The way people speak about others reveals more about themselves in most cases I find.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> Really disappointed in this comment.
> 
> It is similar to those who accuse vets of only selling foods because they get commission on it (they do not); advising neutering because it is financially lucrative for them etc etc.
> 
> ...


Hello Smokey bear Lovely to hear from you! I remember you fondly . Yes it is sad I'm afraid. but that is what they said. It is a shame, but I can only report what happened. That I was told it would probably make me most unpopular with other professional trainers - which I hope is not the case - Remember it wasn't me that actually said it!


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> A Kobo, is like a Kindle, only cheaper


Well when the ebook comes back t me for release then I can as the publishers about Kobo. I love the word at least, it reminds me of my fava children program the littlest Hobo


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> That's twice now you've made comments about other trainers and their methods.
> Is that what you think this is about? People are afraid their income might be threatened by your "unique" method? If so, I think you highly misjudge the entire dog training industry LOL.


Please refer to my previous post to Smokey bear answering the same question. I was advised that it would make me most unpopular with other professional trainers! I can only quote what I was told!

personally, I think when trainers get to see it and use it, the will welcome it. It does after all help dogs and people get out and about again, safely and quickly. . So I'm hoping my dog training friends out there are still my dog training friends after the book is released. I know that those who have tried it and used it so far love it. So who knows what will happen. . Only time can tell.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Well when the ebook comes back t me for release then I can as the publishers about Kobo. I love the word at least, it reminds me of my fava children program the littlest Hobo


If you're releasing through Amazon then you'll need to check your terms, I know a lot of indie authors have to be exclusive to Amazon for some reason.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Sarah1983 said:


> If you're releasing through Amazon then you'll need to check your terms, I know a lot of indie authors have to be exclusive to Amazon for some reason.


It is already listed on Amazon and at Waterstones etc. t is currently listed as out of stock because it is still at the printers! It went ot pring on Monday and will be back with me in 3 weeks from that time they said.

There is an option on my website for pre ordering with the first 100 copies being signed. The first hundred copies have now been sold, but I will continue to sign books as long as my hand holds out .

Its interesting to me that the percentage taken by amazon, is so high (60%) with the publisher taking a further 15%, that some authors actually make a loss on their sales through amazon. Which seems so unfair. So whenever you order a book, if you like the author, it is always worth considering ordering from them direct.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Ouesi. Id like to thank you for contributing so much to this thread. Given the number of questions you have asked and things you have said, like using a divider in class to block visual, like just pulling the dog to face the other way, like just holding your dog against your leg. All of those things have served to confirm in my mind that a lengthy explanation of the original 15000 words that I wrote IS necessary as a process to share this technique. 

It also serves to confirm that talking about this on a forum is in fact not the right way to go about things.... Indeed part of the case study is all about my experience of talking about this technique on forums - and it seems nothing has changed. 

It is time for me to leave this thread. So I wish you all well and happy days with your dogs. Best Regards Denise McLeod.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm a bit apprehensive about posting in this thread as I was accused (wrongly) of following the OP about...However, I would like to say that for us to be able to actually discuss the methods, we first need to know what those methods involve...

Maybe nothing has changed because as of yet the method hasn't been explained


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I may have seen something similar to this technique, or maybe it wasn't.

I was watching a couple with a black lab. Everytime another dog came into sight he would start barking quite fiercely, didn't jump up or strain at the lead, just barked very determinedly. The man would then place his hands over the dogs eyes so he couldn't see and the dog stopped barking, didn't move his head or get up and try to move away so he old see again and have another bark, just sat there silently with his eyes covered by his owners hands.
Worked really well.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Siskin said:


> I may have seen something similar to this technique, or maybe it wasn't.
> 
> I was watching a couple with a black lab. Everytime another dog came into sight he would start barking quite fiercely, didn't jump up or strain at the lead, just barked very determinedly. The man would then place his hands over the dogs eyes so he couldn't see and the dog stopped barking, didn't move his head or get up and try to move away so he old see again and have another bark, just sat there silently with his eyes covered by his owners hands.
> Worked really well.


Its standard wild animal management techniques. Obscuring vision works. It works even better when combined with other actions. . I had left the thread but your positive reply lured me back. . Temporarily. .


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## Poundingpaws (Nov 28, 2012)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Ouesi. Id like to thank you for contributing so much to this thread. Given the number of questions you have asked and things you have said, like using a divider in class to block visual, like just pulling the dog to face the other way, like just holding your dog against your leg. All of those things have served to confirm in my mind that a lengthy explanation of the original 15000 words that I wrote IS necessary as a process to share this technique.
> 
> It also serves to confirm that talking about this on a forum is in fact not the right way to go about things.... Indeed part of the case study is all about my experience of talking about this technique on forums - and it seems nothing has changed.
> 
> It is time for me to leave this thread. So I wish you all well and happy days with your dogs. Best Regards Denise McLeod.


Sorry Denise for bringing up the discussion in the first place. I'm was so excited to see the change in Polo after years of dealing with his reactivity. It is really hard not to say anything but I didn't want to cause any grief for you.

I still feel really proud of Polo every day and find the difference in him amazing. It is a permanent change that is the thing. I've turned Polos back on dogs in the past and temporarily halted his reaction but the following day he was just his usual reactive self.

Whereas now he rarely reacts and if he does it is always to an off lead dog with intentions of introducing itself. Usually he gives a warning stare not to approach and most heed that. If they don't he has a brief lunge and bark which makes his point. I don't stop that as it is pretty normal acceptable behaviour and not excessive from a dog that does not wish to be interfered with as far as I'm concerned.

The only time he reacts to on lead dogs is if they start barking at him first.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

Poundingpaws said:


> Sorry Denise for bringing up the discussion in the first place. I'm was so excited to see the change in Polo after years of dealing with his reactivity. It is really hard not to say anything but I didn't want to cause any grief for you.
> 
> I still feel really proud of Polo every day and find the difference in him amazing. It is a permanent change that is the thing. I've turned Polos back on dogs in the past and temporarily halted his reaction but the following day he was just his usual reactive self.
> 
> ...


Poundingpaws. Don't worry about it. You told people because you where excited and wanted to share you told them in an effort to help and that is all one can do. I do the same, For whatever reason, some people don't like it. Its not a problem.

I'm kind of used to it now and it doesn't worry me anymore now that I have Simon and can talk over the death threats . Instead of them whizzing round in my own head day in day out, thinking WHY why why why why? There is tremendous support for the technique now and good video footage. People will make of it what they will. But the fact that 3 dogs already have improved so dramatically from the contents of the book, before its even printed, is ace. And its not really about the technique thats just a small part of it.

My view these days is very philosophical. I believe many people who talk about reactivity have never experienced it as you have and Linda did. And therefore they haven't needed to find the right way for them and their dog. Those that do, will. Whether it be this technique or another.

What will be, will be.

You hae done everso well with Polo and he is a lovely lovely boy. That is all you need to worry consider. Well done both of you. And don't worry. I'm not.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Please refer to my previous post to Smokey bear answering the same question. I was advised that it would make me most unpopular with other professional trainers! I can only quote what I was told!
> 
> personally, I think when trainers get to see it and use it, the will welcome it. It does after all help dogs and people get out and about again, safely and quickly. . So I'm hoping my dog training friends out there are still my dog training friends after the book is released. I know that those who have tried it and used it so far love it. So who knows what will happen. . Only time can tell.


I still think it's a serious misjudgement on your part if you really believe that simply presenting your method would make you unpopular.
The dog training world is hugely diverse, and not everyone is going to like everything, but there is certainly not a culture of resentment at others' success. The dog training world I know is a very collaborative, if opinionated group.



CaDeLac Denise said:


> Ouesi. Id like to thank you for contributing so much to this thread. Given the number of questions you have asked and things you have said, like using a divider in class to block visual, like just pulling the dog to face the other way, like just holding your dog against your leg. All of those things have served to confirm in my mind that a lengthy explanation of the original 15000 words that I wrote IS necessary as a process to share this technique.
> 
> It also serves to confirm that talking about this on a forum is in fact not the right way to go about things.... Indeed part of the case study is all about my experience of talking about this technique on forums - and it seems nothing has changed.
> 
> It is time for me to leave this thread. So I wish you all well and happy days with your dogs. Best Regards Denise McLeod.


When analyzing techniques for addressing behavior and learning, it's important to understand the critical attributes of each technique. Those elements of the technique that are essential in order for it to work effectively. Like with simple R+, what you use as a reward doesn't matter, you can use food, toys, play, environmental rewards, a dead squirrel... _What _the reward is doesn't matter, that there _is _a reward is a critical attribute of R+ training.

So for example, in the Suzanne Clothier video I posted (that you did not watch, and I wish you had), she is very clear that one of the critical attributes of CC and DS is that the dog has to feel safe. If the dog doesn't feel safe, you will not be successful with DS/CC.

From what I can tell, the critical attributes of your technique are not anything new. Everything you are talking about, from a thorough initial evaluation, to timing, to addressing habitual behavior, the emotional response, offering the dog choices for alternate behaviors... All of it is also used by effective trainers in different combinations and applications depending on the dog and the situation. 
And yes, with the same quick, effective, long term results. Which is why I can say with confidence that I'm sure this technique works for certain dogs. I can also say with confidence that I bet you can vary the head/collar hold and eye/ear covering and still achieve good results. Because I don't think holding the dog in a certain position is a critical attribute of the technique.

I'm not sure if you network with other trainers or go to seminars and workshops from other trainers, but I think the more you get out there, the more you realize that there is very little that is actually "new", rather most of what we do is a variation or improvement on what others are already doing. As you said, your technique of covering the eyes is something used with wild animals all the time. 

I just wish there wasn't the need to disparage other methods or trainers. Especially when dogs are so unique and individual, and not one single application is going to work for every dog. There will always be tweaks and adjustments needed to accommodate the individual.

Oh, and thank you for the well wishes


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## Poundingpaws (Nov 28, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I still think it's a serious misjudgement on your part if you really believe that simply presenting your method would make you unpopular.
> The dog training world is hugely diverse, and not everyone is going to like everything, but there is certainly not a culture of resentment at others' success. The dog training world I know is a very collaborative, if opinionated group.
> 
> When analyzing techniques for addressing behavior and learning, it's important to understand the critical attributes of each technique. Those elements of the technique that are essential in order for it to work effectively. Like with simple R+, what you use as a reward doesn't matter, you can use food, toys, play, environmental rewards, a dead squirrel... _What _the reward is doesn't matter, that there _is _a reward is a critical attribute of R+ training.
> ...


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## Poundingpaws (Nov 28, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I still think it's a serious misjudgement on your part if you really believe that simply presenting your method would make you unpopular.
> The dog training world is hugely diverse, and not everyone is going to like everything, but there is certainly not a culture of resentment at others' success. The dog training world I know is a very collaborative, if opinionated group.
> 
> When analyzing techniques for addressing behavior and learning, it's important to understand the critical attributes of each technique. Those elements of the technique that are essential in order for it to work effectively. Like with simple R+, what you use as a reward doesn't matter, you can use food, toys, play, environmental rewards, a dead squirrel... _What _the reward is doesn't matter, that there _is _a reward is a critical attribute of R+ training.
> ...


I have a bookshelf groaning from the weight of books on dog reactivity/aggression/fear and agree that they are all saying much the same thing in a slightly different way. Ive been on courses, seminars, workshops and classes and picked up some good tips and techniques for managing and reducing Polo's reactivity over the years. They are all advocating keeping your dog 'below threshold'. And this is the difficulty that many owners of reactive dogs find. Even in a reactive dog class whereby there was ample space and we used acres to set our distance initially, setting our dogs up to succeed, Polo was sometimes going over threshold. This was in a controlled environment. His threshold varied drastically from one day to the next and it was extremely difficult to pinpoint out the trigger(s) that had pushed him one day to the next.

Every time we 'allow' our dogs to react by supposedly not keeping them safe we supposedly failed our dogs and it is common to keep hearing about setbacks on our journey to overcome these behaviours.

This was the first time I could actually set him up to fail, if you like, or allow him to react in order to stop him and give him a completely different message. And that message was received loud and clear pretty instantly.

I have not come across anybody else using a remotely similar technique to solve this issue.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2016)

ouesi said:


> I still think it's a serious misjudgement on your part if you really believe that simply presenting your method would make you unpopular.
> The dog training world is hugely diverse, and not everyone is going to like everything, but there is certainly not a culture of resentment at others' success. The dog training world I know is a very collaborative, if opinionated group.
> 
> When analyzing techniques for addressing behavior and learning, it's important to understand the critical attributes of each technique. Those elements of the technique that are essential in order for it to work effectively. Like with simple R+, what you use as a reward doesn't matter, you can use food, toys, play, environmental rewards, a dead squirrel... _What _the reward is doesn't matter, that there _is _a reward is a critical attribute of R+ training.
> ...


Ouesi In your rush to correct my view of the world, it seems you have once again missed the actual point . I will write it in big letters so it stands out

IT WAS NOT ME THAT SAID THAT MY TECHNIQUE WOULD MAKE ME UNPOPULAR. IT WAS THE OTHER TRAINERS! AS it said the first time I wrote it and the second time I wrote it and now again for the third time. .


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2016)

Oesi. Also, I think that your efforts to tell me how my technique works and how it doesn't work, is a little bit pointless Given that you have hot seen it, nor read about it in detail nor used it , then I suspect there is every chance that I might understand it a weeney bit more than you do.

If you believe that this technique is used everywhere by everyone already, then it wont be anything new then will it, so why not move on to something else on the forum that you think is new or interesting. But given that a number of people, some very exerinced dog training preoffessionals have travelled huge distances to see it, in action and each has gone "oh blimey" to the result, then I susect that actually you are wrong. I wont reply to any moreof your posts, You don't have to keep harping on about how you know more about my technique than I do, how my explanation doesn't sit comfortably with you, or how its already in common existence anyway. You could, if you genuinely believed all those things go "oh, its an old story, ill find something better to do with my time", than just slate this trainer.

Your insistence at focusing on everything you can to discredit what I have said (eg your insistence that I said it would make me unpopular when it WAS NOT ME and that wasn't what I wrote at all, but instead it was your rush to find something else wrong with what I've written) This approach makes it look like your just picking on the method or/and me. And that makes me smile and feel a bit sad for you. You don't like the technique Fine. Go onto another thread then where it isn't being talked about. .
As I said, I wont be relying to any more of your posts..

Though your continuous nagging has had a surprising result. It appears you are drumming up support of my posts form people who are not posting but instead writing to me and asking to buy the book, so thank you . I'm sure when they have READ IT, they will UNDERSAND IT and then you will be able to ask them about it and then maybe you might understand it too.

Good day and good bye. . xxx



ouesi said:


> I still think it's a serious misjudgement on your part if you really believe that simply presenting your method would make you unpopular.
> The dog training world is hugely diverse, and not everyone is going to like everything, but there is certainly not a culture of resentment at others' success. The dog training world I know is a very collaborative, if opinionated group.
> 
> When analyzing techniques for addressing behavior and learning, it's important to understand the critical attributes of each technique. Those elements of the technique that are essential in order for it to work effectively. Like with simple R+, what you use as a reward doesn't matter, you can use food, toys, play, environmental rewards, a dead squirrel... _What _the reward is doesn't matter, that there _is _a reward is a critical attribute of R+ training.
> ...


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2016)

Poundingpaws said:


> I have a bookshelf groaning from the weight of books on dog reactivity/aggression/fear and agree that they are all saying much the same thing in a slightly different way. Ive been on courses, seminars, workshops and classes and picked up some good tips and techniques for managing and reducing Polo's reactivity over the years. They are all advocating keeping your dog 'below threshold'. And this is the difficulty that many owners of reactive dogs find. Even in a reactive dog class whereby there was ample space and we used acres to set our distance initially, setting our dogs up to succeed, Polo was sometimes going over threshold. This was in a controlled environment. His threshold varied drastically from one day to the next and it was extremely difficult to pinpoint out the trigger(s) that had pushed him one day to the next.
> 
> Every time we 'allow' our dogs to react by supposedly not keeping them safe we supposedly failed our dogs and it is common to keep hearing about setbacks on our journey to overcome these behaviours.
> 
> ...


Pounding paws. You raise a very interesting point. The benefit of this technique is that people can use it in the street to stop reactivity even after their dog has lost the plot and gone highly reactive. That is where other techniques often don't help..... No matter how well a person prepares a dog to cope under threshold, they can not control incoming off leash dogs and other dogs that are reactive, so this technique gives owners a real way of calming their dog in the over threshold environment. Meaning that no setback occurs, but instead a step forward . AS you know from your own experience. .


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2016)

CaDeLac Denise said:


> Ouesi In your rush to correct my view of the world, it seems you have once again missed the actual point . I will write it in big letters so it stands out
> 
> IT WAS NOT ME THAT SAID THAT MY TECHNIQUE WOULD MAKE ME UNPOPULAR. IT WAS THE OTHER TRAINERS! AS it said the first time I wrote it and the second time I wrote it and now again for the third time. .


I understood just fine it was not you who said it. I have understood that all along. No need to shout thanks 

The fact that you believe it to be true, enough to mention it on here, is the part that is a) unprofessional, and b) makes me think you must not be familiar with the very real camaraderie and cooperation that does exist in the dog training world.

Are you not a member of any recognized professional organization? This is a great way to networks with other trainers, see what others are doing and discussing.
Things like the hand touch that you'd never heard of are ubiquitous throughout disciplines. If you were networking with other professionals you would have heard of it 
Or even the fact that other trainers, again, in multiple disciplines, are quite good at working dogs in arousal and are able to escalate, de-escalate, or continue in arousal as needed, and teach their clients how to do the same. You seem to think this is unique to your work in reactivity - it's not. (Which was why I asked you about your familiarity with Control Unleashed.)

Anyway, I do wish you well, but I'm not interested in a tit-for-tat back and forth. 
I would not read too much in to the interest your thread is generating. I imagine your behavior on this thread has been informative enough for other forum members....


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I imagine your behavior on this thread has been informative enough for other forum members....


Yeah that...All I have done is try to understand what this all new singing and dancing method is...All the trainers that I work with would have zero issue with detailing a method so that people could understand what it entailed, but all I have received is a condescending attitude and accused of following the OP around


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2016)

I'd just like to say a big thank you to those of you have written to me on facebook and by email, following the discussions on this and the other thread.  Its great to hear that I have been able to help in some way. For those who have requested that the information be emailed to you, then I've sent them out now, so please let me know if you have not received the chapter and appendix relating to the turn and face technique. If you need any help the let me know and please do let us know how you get on ;-). 

The book is released on Tuesday 29th August and will be signed and despatched to those that have used our website pre order facility. There will be a new facebook group 'dog reactivity - support and help - turn and face', which includes all the video footage of the technique that you have enquired about. At the moment there is only the preview chapters on the group 'A Dog Behaviourist's Diary', which is open to all. 

Again I thank you for you interest and your kind words . I'm sorry so many of you, felt unable to comment on the thread but I agree with you DD, that it is a rather unfriendly place! This is my last post in this thread. I hope you enjoy the book. get your tissues at the ready for the story of Rosie.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

StormyThai said:


> Yeah that...All I have done is try to understand what this all new singing and dancing method is...All the trainers that I work with would have zero issue with detailing a method so that people could understand what it entailed, but all I have received is a condescending attitude and accused of following the OP around


Yep, exactly.

It's difficult to regard someone as Professional when they turn up on a forum, make repeated reference to some training technique which, apparently, is a State Secret, and make very sure they mention their 'shortly to be released' book every second or third post.


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## Poundingpaws (Nov 28, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I understood just fine it was not you who said it. I have understood that all along. No need to shout thanks
> 
> The fact that you believe it to be true, enough to mention it on here, is the part that is a) unprofessional, and b) makes me think you must not be familiar with the very real camaraderie and cooperation that does exist in the dog training world.
> 
> ...


I have used a lot of the techniques from control unleashed. Working dogs at high arousal and being able to switch them on and off bares little relation to the technique we are discussing.

Again I will say I was not taught a technique that brought Polo down from high arousal but had an immediate and permanent change in him.

I'm not sure what your agenda is really. You don't seem interested in the technique on one hand but to try and guess what you can compare it to and criticise it and other people. It's quite unpleasant really as I know Denise as a lovely compassionate person.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2016)

Poundingpaws said:


> I'm not sure what your agenda is really. You don't seem interested in the technique on one hand but to try and guess what you can compare it to and criticise it and other people. It's quite unpleasant really as I know Denise as a lovely compassionate person.


I have repeatedly on here and on the other thread said I'm not criticizing this technique. Seriously, I've said that numerous times. 
Even when asked, I declined to comment on the videos because I think it's unfair to comment based on 15 seconds of training.

I don't have an agenda. If you follow how this conversation has gone, Denise started by quoting a post I had made months ago on the "badly behaved dogs" thread, has continued to repeatedly tagged me, and quote my posts. I'm simply responding and participating in a discussion on a *discussion* forum. This is not a 'sell your book' forum.

Basically here's the thing. 
If you want to be treated like a professional and discuss your training as a professional, then frankly, act like a professional. 
Don't get all uppity if people don't agree with you, or have different ideas than yours. We're not all goign to agree but we can respect each other as equally intelligent and experienced dog people who all have something of value to contribute. 
Don't get defensive at being questioned. Questioning shows a) interest and b) a desire to understand. Taking it as a personal affront and getting defensive makes you appear disingenuous.
If more than one person is not understanding what you are trying to say or the idea you are trying to share, consider that you may have to work on your communication skills. 
I've worked with trainers who were able to present complex ideas to my kids who were very young at the time in a way the children understood and were able to process and apply. And they didn't talk down to my kids either. 
That? That right there is good teaching, good people skills, and fantastic understanding on the concept they are explaining.


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## Poundingpaws (Nov 28, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I have repeatedly on here and on the other thread said I'm not criticizing this technique. Seriously, I've said that numerous times.
> Even when asked, I declined to comment on the videos because I think it's unfair to comment based on 15 seconds of training.
> 
> I don't have an agenda. If you follow how this conversation has gone, Denise started by quoting a post I had made months ago on the "badly behaved dogs" thread, has continued to repeatedly tagged me, and quote my posts. I'm simply responding and participating in a discussion on a *discussion* forum. This is not a 'sell your book' forum.
> ...


I appreciate what you are saying but it feels like an interrogation more than an interest. 
Aswell as being professionals we are also real people with feelings. I felt defensive on the other thread where I initially brought it up (which I feel guilty about). You told me my contribution to that thread was pointless. I didn't realise my comments had to have a specific point on a discussion forum.

I also feel defensive on behalf of Denise as if she has been attacked and threatened when she first spoke about it she has a right to not go into too much detail. I've no doubt other trainers have suggested jealousy as a possible reason for such hatred because it is unfathomable as to why people would go to such extreme measures to behave that way.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Would i be correct in saying that this method only works on dogs who are happy being physically restrained/handled?


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2016)

Poundingpaws said:


> You told me my contribution to that thread was pointless. I didn't realise my comments had to have a specific point on a discussion forum.


I never told you your contribution to the thread was pointless. 
What I said was, I found it pointless to bring up something and then say "I'm not at liberty to discuss it". 
If a bunch of us were talking about delicious recipes we had tried, and you say "oh I found this great recipe, it was fabulous!" and then followed up with "but hey, I can't talk about it at all" then yes, I'm going to wonder out loud why the heck you even brought it up to begin with.



Poundingpaws said:


> I also feel defensive on behalf of Denise as if she has been attacked and threatened when she first spoke about it she has a right to not go into too much detail.


No one on this forum has attacked or threatened Denise in any way whatsoever.

But again I'm going to bring up being a member of professional organizations. If you present your ideas initially within a group of your professional peers, you get all sorts of good, useful feedback, can go back and edit/revise based on that helpful feedback, and then when you present it to the public you have the backing of that professional body behind you as a sort of safety net and support group.

That said, no matter what you do professionally, not everyone is going to love it, and not everyone is going to be gentle in their approach. Such is the way of the world, it takes all kinds...

Anyway, this thread is about reactivity is it not? Not about "he said she said"? So... I'm very happy for you that you have found something that works for you and your dog


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## planete (Jan 21, 2012)

I have followed both threads on Denise' s method with interest. Could those of you who are buying the book please let us know whether you have been able to use it successfully with your dogs? I have achieved calm with my reactive bitch when meeting other dogs even at close quarters if they are on lead but am only making slow progress with free ranging dogs when she is on lead herself. She is fine in controlled environments like training classes and will meet and greet nicely and work well alongside other dogs. Just stuck for how to address this final hurdle.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Would i be correct in saying that this method only works on dogs who are happy being physically restrained/handled?


I would have thought so. It's not something I'd even attempt to use on a dog who'd redirect. Or a dog like Rupert who fell to pieces if physically manhandled in any way.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> I would have thought so. It's not something I'd even attempt to use on a dog who'd redirect. Or a dog like Rupert who fell to pieces if physically manhandled in any way.


Ned doesnt like being restrained on the whole; he's rather mistrusting and suspicious of me. Not to mention a wimp.

Also, the only time he really reacts inappropriately (i hate the term reactive, as it also seems synonymous with aggressive - what about dogs that just react in an antisocial, but not aggressive or frustrated manner?) is when he cant even see the source - usually at the out of control dogs that hurl themselves at fences, going ballistic. From what i can gather, this technique involves covering the dogs eyes to reduce sensory input.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2016)

Poundingpaws. Don't feel guilty. It doesn't matter. I came here to offer help and support. It was an inquisition on here and its reminded me what awful places forums can be. The reality is that the book is coming out in about a week now and its going out to a lot of people who have reactivity problems.

Then I will find out whether it can be used by people, simply through what has been written in the book or not. So far it has worked for 75% of those that have read the pre release chapters. What people on a forum think of me, or the technique, is irrelevant. It makes zero difference to what actually happens. All it does, is bare the souls of the people involved in the threads. As you know, the shite I went through on forums, was awful. But that which I went through then, made me more determined, not less. More sure not less. That this is the right thing to do.

Those that are genuinely interested have/will make an enquiry. Those that just like to cause trouble won't and that suits me. .

Whatever happens, will happen.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2016)

Hello everybody. My book is now released and is due for shipment tomorrow. All those that have ordered via the CaDeLac website - your books will e signed and despatched via first class post tomorrow (Wednesday 31st August). The Ebook should go out tonight or tomorrow. I'd like to thank all of those that have messaged me such kind, supportive messages and thank you also for your orders! I hope you enjoy the book as much as I enjoyed writing it! And I really hope it helps you with your reactive dogs too! Best Regards, Denise (A Dog Behaviourist's Diary).


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