# Early Neutering question



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Am very pleased to have found a vet near me who has been doing early neutering for a long time, so has had plenty of practise. 

I found another one who normally doesn't do it but would at 13 weeks for me, but if they normally don't do it I don't want them practising on my kittens. Will have to explain that politely.

A couple of questions to those in the UK who are early neutering - what age do your kittens leave home at, and what happens if a boy only has one when they come to 'do' him?

And another one... Are any of you willing to share what a worm / vaccinate / chip / neuter package costs? PM if you don't want to share in public.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Going to answer anyway 

Glad you've found a vet  I'd only want experienced hands on my kittens too

Never had a boy with only one testicle down, if I did he would stay with me until they were both down or he was 'spayed' which tends to be around 6-9 months from others I know. Letting him go without being done isn't an option I'd consider.

Boys can leave a few days after the OP, girls around 7 days when stitches are out - last litter I didn't get done until 12 weeks so they started to leave at 12 1/2

A friend who breeds Siamese gets the boys done at 12 weeks and the girls 14 weeks, they don't weigh as much as my kittens so she waits a few extra weeks. And they go home at 13-16 weeks


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

ONly had the one lot done - but they were done at 12 weeks then left at 14 weeks as I wanted to make sure they were fine. - my vets didn't offer a package but 10% off jabs and 10% off neutering. Girls were meant to be £57 and boys £45 - though my girls ended up with midlines as colour-points and that was £75. (not that the naughty vets explained this beforehand!) Jabs were £56 each I think, with extra £15 for those that had leukaemia. Chipping was £16.50.

SO total bill was - £662.50 (gasp!) minus 10% of the jabs and neutering - £56.50 - so just over £600 for 5 kittens. SO £121 each.

Next lot I hope to do at 11 or 12 weeks and them still leave at 13 weeks.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

spid said:


> Girls were meant to be £57 and boys £45 - though my girls ended up with midlines as colour-points and that was £75.


Was there a reason for the price difference? Here midline and flank are the same price for those who have a choice.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Midline is apparently more complicated!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

spid said:


> Midline is apparently more complicated!


Mmmm, I really don't know about that.

Midline is far more common than flank, seems rather odd to chose a more difficult surgery as the standard.

Flank is standard in the eastern states here, midline where I am though I used to see a vet who prefered flank (now retired).


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Well I have a new vets now as moved so will see how it goes this time.


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

spid said:


> Midline is apparently more complicated!


Our vet says that actually midline is easier than flank (for access apparently!) in his opinion anyway. They charge the same flank or midline.

Our vet will neuter on size rather than age but we early neutered ours at 13 - 14 weeks - kept the boys a week after and the girls 10 days - just to ensure they were all okay. We got 10% discount on vaccs and neutering but not on worming/flea stuff.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

When I see the prices here (and also on another thread before this), I'm just surprised at how expensive neutering is in my city Boys are OK-ish- between 70-80 euros but girls... They start at 145 euro but after everything (painkillers, medical pet shirt etc.), it becomes around 189 euro per girl. No discounts if it's a nest. At my previous city, it was about 140 euros after everything for a girl.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> When I see the prices here (and also on another thread before this), I'm just surprised at how expensive neutering is in my city


I don't think the price comparisons can be valid without a complete breakdown of procedures. They vary so much. Anaesthetics, fluids, monitoring etc. It's all going to make a difference to costs.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

I was wondering, would if i was to ask a breeder to write up a contract stating that they will not be bred from and neutered, would they allow me to have one? as i dont think id feel comfortable with them being neutered so young.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If the vet is experienced in early neutering they bounce back just as well as older kittens. If someone asked me not to neuter one of the boys sorry but I'd tell them they are my kittens and it's my choice.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> If the vet is experienced in early neutering they bounce back just as well as older kittens. If someone asked me not to neuter one of the boys sorry but I'd tell them they are my kittens and it's my choice.


would there be any future issues with them for being neutered so early?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

MrRustyRead said:


> would there be any future issues with them for being neutered so early?


No issues among the breeders I know who early altered for decades. Not seen any myself either

Neutering isn't an option with my kittens, anyone not comfortable with that wouldn't get one. But it's so common here that it's not a question asked often, people usually double check that it will be done before they get the kitten


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> No issues among the breeders I know who early altered for decades. Not seen any myself either
> 
> Neutering isn't an option with my kittens, anyone not comfortable with that wouldn't get one. But it's so common here that it's not a question asked often, people usually double check that it will be done before they get the kitten


before i had read up on it neutering before 12 weeks just seemed way to early, but i spose the most cases u hear of it being bad is with dogs not cats.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

MrRustyRead said:


> I was wondering, would if i was to ask a breeder to write up a contract stating that they will not be bred from and neutered, would they allow me to have one? as i dont think id feel comfortable with them being neutered so young.





MrRustyRead said:


> would there be any future issues with them for being neutered so early?


Don't go to a breeder you early neuters then  And dogs aren't cats you cant compare neutering with them.

We EN the foster kittens that we have, and all of the breeders we speak to EN their kittens to, no problems involved only positives, and it doesn't stunt growth or any other old wives tales. They bounce back quicker and less drugs are used they recover in their own home among their littermates & mum, and you don't need to worry about doing it in a few weeks time! :laugh:


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

catlove844 said:


> Don't go to a breeder you early neuters then  And dogs aren't cats you cant compare neutering with them.
> 
> We EN the foster kittens that we have, and all of the breeders we speak to EN their kittens to, no problems involved only positives, and it doesn't stunt growth or any other old wives tales. They bounce back quicker and less drugs are used they recover in their own home among their littermates & mum, and you don't need to worry about doing it in a few weeks time! :laugh:


well after reading up on it i understand that it isnt as bad as i had expected.

really? well someone better break the news to Rusty that he isnt a Dog 

a lot of species they say to let them mature before they are neutered which is why i asked as i wasnt sure if this was true as i have never bred cats and have never bought a kitten.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

It is very different with dogs, especially the larger breeds. I do know many small dog breeders who early neuter without issue.



MrRustyRead said:


> a lot of species they say to let them mature before they are neutered.


What would be mature? Females having a heat cycle? Males able to mate? That can happen as young as 14-16 weeks. It's best to spay a female before the first cycle - reducing the risk of breast cancer by around 97%, and for males before they learn any entire behaviours that then may not be broken.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> It is very different with dogs, especially the larger breeds. I do know many small dog breeders who early neuter without issue.
> 
> What would be mature? Females having a heat cycle? Males able to mate? That can happen as young as 14-16 weeks. It's best to spay a female before the first cycle - reducing the risk of breast cancer by around 97%, and for males before they learn any entire behaviours that then may not be broken.


things like testicles dropping, my little Belgian Hare is currently holding his up so i cant chop them off ha.

As i said, i havent ever had a kitten so this is why i asked


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Early Neutering is still not common in the UK so I imagine that it'll be quite easy for you to find a breeder who will let the kitten leave entire (and neutered at a later age). However, as everyone said, the risks are small and trust me, if the risks were significant, breeders wouldn't early neuter (it's horrible disappointing owners, breeders love their kittens and obviously it's not good financially to have a kitten die as well!).


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> It is very different with dogs, especially the larger breeds. I do know many small dog breeders who early neuter without issue.
> 
> What would be mature? Females having a heat cycle? Males able to mate? That can happen as young as 14-16 weeks. It's best to spay a female before the first cycle - reducing the risk of breast cancer by around 97%, and for males before they learn any entire behaviours that then may not be broken.


So me breeds don't mature (they say) until 2-5years of age?! So then how long do you leave it?!



MrRustyRead said:


> things like testicles dropping, my little Belgian Hare is currently holding his up so i cant chop them off ha.
> 
> As i said, i havent ever had a kitten so this is why i asked


lol the boys bits are there from very early on, you can neuter boys from 8weeks, and trust me their bits are there! :laugh:


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

catlove844 said:


> So me breeds don't mature (they say) until 2-5years of age?! So then how long do you leave it?!
> 
> lol the boys bits are there from very early on, you can neuter boys from 8weeks, and trust me their bits are there! :laugh:


ha well all of mine had their bits long gone before i got them, seeing as my youngest was 6 months when we got him


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

My Seb is a rescue, he was neutered at 10 weeks old and came home to me at 11 weeks. The rescue said he was fine after his op and recovered well 

He is now 2 years old, he's a healthy boy and has had no issues. He's grown and progressed very well. As he's a Justa I don't know what age he will stop growing, but I've noticed over the last couple of weeks he's getting taller


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MrRustyRead said:


> I was wondering, would if i was to ask a breeder to write up a contract stating that they will not be bred from and neutered, would they allow me to have one? as i dont think id feel comfortable with them being neutered so young.


I forgot to say that one of the big drivers for early neutering is people not sticking to contracts. If everyone could be trusted to neuter at an appropriate age as per their contract the need for early neutering would go away.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> I forgot to say that one of the big drivers for early neutering is people not sticking to contracts. If everyone could be trusted to neuter at an appropriate age as per their contract the need for early neutering would go away.


We have spoke to breeders that said some people had lied, sent in neutering for another kitten! said the kitten had died (it hadn't) All used for breeding! Some breeders said they have people contacting them with a cat on non-active, and if you look online some cats are being advertise as pedigree studs on 'non active' 

Some just never replied, but then a lot of breeders just never check up, if these people are going to do this, what do they care if they have the paperwork? So the breeder also has to contact them and make sure its done to


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> I forgot to say that one of the big drivers for early neutering is people not sticking to contracts. If everyone could be trusted to neuter at an appropriate age as per their contract the need for early neutering would go away.


god people like that make my blood boil! to me a contract is a contract, u sign it, u stick to it.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

My contract states that all owners must neuter by the age of 8 months old and proof (receipt/declaration by vet which includes the kitten's chip no.) will have to be sent. 

No problems so far BUT only because I've been lucky (and because the owners I've had so far are good people). Frankly, if there was a bad owner, I probably couldn't have done very much so to make sure I'm (or my kittens) never put in a bad situation, I plan on early neutering my future kittens.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

pipje said:


> My contract states that all owners must neuter by the age of 8 months old and proof (receipt/declaration by vet which includes the kitten's chip no.) will have to be sent.
> 
> No problems so far BUT only because I've been lucky (and because the owners I've had so far are good people). Frankly, if there was a bad owner, I probably couldn't have done very much so to make sure I'm (or my kittens) never put in a bad situation, I plan on early neutering my future kittens.


I just wondered why you put 8 months and not 5-6? To me the longer people leave it, the more they 'forget' which gives the cat time to call and then 'escape'


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I just wondered why you put 8 months and not 5-6?


Used to be fairly standard. Many vets still won't neuter before six months and there has to be a grace period as it isn't always possible to get an appointment for surgery on the dot of six months.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

I am not from the UK, but if/when we'll have kittens, I'll have them all neutered before they leave my house. The standard price here is 75-85&#8364; for girls and 65-75&#8364; for boys, but recently a new vet clinic opened nearby and their price is 30&#8364; for boys and 42&#8364; for girls and they regularly do it by the age of 8 weeks (the low price is because the owner also runs a cat rescue organisation and her aim is to get as many cat owners as possible to neuter their cats). I still have my doubts about early neutering, but seeing as they keep doing it without any issues I will probably bring my in at 10 weeks.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If everyone could be trusted to neuter at an appropriate age as per their contract the need for early neutering would go away


In decades of breeding I've never had a single buyer not neuter so it isn't my primary motivation at all. I do believe it's much less of a stressor if kittens are neutered younger, together as a litter in their birth home. If I could I'd do so at 13/14 weeks once vaccinated and have them go to their new homes about a week later. I don't think I would consider allowing an unvaccinated kitten anywhere near a vet for elective surgery.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> In decades of breeding I've never had a single buyer not neuter so it isn't my primary motivation at all. I do believe it's much less of a stressor if kittens are neutered younger, together as a litter in their birth home. If I could I'd do so at 13/14 weeks once vaccinated and have them go to their new homes about a week later. I don't think I would consider allowing an unvaccinated kitten anywhere near a vet for elective surgery.


It's certainly less of a stressor for the breeder - no worrying about BYBs using them.

The vet I'll use does 1st vac at 9 weeks, 2nd at 12 and then neuter & chip a week later. I have a note to ring them at 8 weeks (2 weeks time - where did it all go?  :eek6: :yikes to make sure they have 5 shots of vaccine in.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The vet I'll use does 1st vac at 9 weeks, 2nd at 12 and then neuter & chip a week later.


That's exactly the protocol I'd choose - if only I could.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> That's exactly the protocol I'd choose - if only I could.


I was so delighted to find this vet. It's a longer journey than my own vet because it's a slower road, they don't offer the same hours, but she learnt about early neutering in the US (I was told) and is also doing all the neutering for a local cat charity so she's well in practice.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

This is the protocol I use, for exactly the same reason.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

catlove844 said:


> I just wondered why you put 8 months and not 5-6? To me the longer people leave it, the more they 'forget' which gives the cat time to call and then 'escape'


As havoc said. I agree with what you said though (the longer people leave it, the more they 'forget') but I will send reminders if necessary. They were all neutered on time (one owner requested to wait 10 months because they wanted their boy's cheeks to grow. I thought it wouldn't make much of a difference but allowed it because GENERALLY BSHs sexually mature a little later and because he would be 10 months old when it was stupidly cold).


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Advertised my kittens a couple of days ago, have come to the conclusion from the calls I have had already that "early neuter" are two nasty words in most peoples vocabulary !! Didnt mention it in my advert as was still looking into it - have found a vet near me who will do it and is used to doing work for Celia Hammond trust. The responses I have had when I mentioned it just make me more determined to early neuter - people lie through their teeth. I have a viewing on Saturday with a lovely lady who is very pleased her kitten will already be "done" More like her please.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I have a viewing on Saturday with a lovely lady who is very pleased her kitten will already be "done" More like her please.


All the breeders I know who have the chance to neuter before their kittens go get *exactly* that reaction from genuine buyers.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

I would love mine to have been neutered before I got them, my vet is on the list for early neutering at the FAB website but when I got Nancy and asked for her to be neutered asap they said they wouldn't until 5-6 months. I have yet to find one near me that does.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

It's so hard because EN is so unknown in The Netherlands; so much so that if someone early neuters, they might be classified as a bad breeder (by buyers). I did a survey amongst my kitten owners earlier this year and all of them said (they all neutered their kittens before 8 months), they'd prefer not to early neuter because their vet said never earlier than 6 months old, because it sounds like the breeder cares more about his/her lines and because the start-up costs (the price the kitten will go for) will be significantly higher (e.g. from 550 euro per kitten to 700 euro for female kittens as neutering girls is around 165 euro per girl here. Boys are cheaper at around 75-85 euro each). 

This is why I'm slightly torn but I will just do it (test drive) next litter and see.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

The vet who I have found will EN girls for £40 - she is also cheaper for vaccinations than my current vet so I am prepared to swallow the extra cost myself for peace of mind - for me it has less to do with lines than the cat possibly being used to produce back to back litters - BYBs are rife in my area within the BSH breed, there are plenty of "non active" studs cats advertised that will take "none active" girls for as little as £60 - I know a BYB near me whose cat has had 3 litters in the space of just over a year


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

MrRustyRead said:


> things like testicles dropping, my little Belgian Hare is currently holding his up so i cant chop them off ha.
> 
> As i said, i havent ever had a kitten so this is why i asked


Well, male kittens are normally born with their testicles descended so that's not much of a problem. In the case a male kitten doesn't have the stuff in the package when the time comes you can decide if you want to wait or go on with the procedure. Neutering a cryptorchid male isn't more complicated than doing a midline spay on a female.


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## FizMillion (May 23, 2013)

I pay £30 for boys and £40 for girls. That includes vaccinations, early neutering and chipped.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

How is that even possible?


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## FizMillion (May 23, 2013)

£10 for vaccs (both courses excluding leukemia), chip £10 and neuter £10


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

FizMillion said:


> £10 for vaccs (both courses excluding leukemia), chip £10 and neuter £10


WHo does this and why aren't they in my area?


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

How is this even possible? 10 for vaccinations is stupidly cheap (I pay 60-ish each so 2 at 9 and 12 weeks= 120+ per kitten), 10 for chip (ok bit cheap but I heard that the cost price of the chip is only about 3 euros, my vet charges 30 but I guess he needs to make money) but 10 for neutering doesn't seem possible? Wouldn't anaesthesia be more expensive than that? Plus the time involved for the vet? Granted my vet is stupidly expensive at 150+ for girls (he is the 2nd cheapest in the area though and the cheapest is only a little bit cheaper but looks less professional) but 10 pounds just couldn't possibly cover neutering, can it??


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

pipje said:


> How is this even possible? 10 for vaccinations is stupidly cheap (I pay 60-ish each so 2 at 9 and 12 weeks= 120+ per kitten), 10 for chip (ok bit cheap but I heard that the cost price of the chip is only about 3 euros, my vet charges 30 but I guess he needs to make money) but 10 for neutering doesn't seem possible? Wouldn't anaesthesia be more expensive than that? Plus the time involved for the vet? Granted my vet is stupidly expensive at 150+ for girls (he is the 2nd cheapest in the area though and the cheapest is only a little bit cheaper but looks less professional) but 10 pounds just couldn't possibly cover neutering, can it??


I agree. Can you tell us where you get such cheap prices?


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## FizMillion (May 23, 2013)

Easipetcare the Coventry RSPCA branch. Fantastic Vets haven't had an issue.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

And its always worth asking your own *vet* - I phoned and spoke to the head vet nurse who stated my vet didnt do girls until 4 months at earliest - spoke to the vet direct and that changed to 12 weeks


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

FizMillion said:


> Easipetcare the Coventry RSPCA branch. Fantastic Vets haven't had an issue.


I've been hearing about that place on this board. The prices are truly amazing- I keep wondering what's the catch (because the difference is so large). I wish we had something like this in NL


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

They are trying to get all the moggies vaccinated & neutered. I have a feeling they don't see themselves as providing a super-cheap service for breeders. The chip price is cheap but if you are buying them in bulk the difference between the chip purchase price & their price for chipping for 10 minutes of a vet nurses time.

The vaccination and neutering costs (especially the later) must be heavily subsidised and I'm very surprised they are letting a breeder (if that's what Fitzmillion is) use those services.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

OrientalSlave said:


> They are trying to get all the moggies vaccinated & neutered. I have a feeling they don't see themselves as providing a super-cheap service for breeders. The chip price is cheap but if you are buying them in bulk the difference between the chip purchase price & their price for chipping for 10 minutes of a vet nurses time.
> 
> The vaccination and neutering costs (especially the later) must be heavily subsidised and I'm very surprised they are letting a breeder (if that's what Fitzmillion is) use those services.


I wrote to Easipetcare's head office re this. I didn't particularly want to turn up and find that they wouldn't vaccinate my kittens because I was a breeder. The reply I had from them was very pleasant and stated that breeders are more than welcome at their vaccination clinics with litters of kittens.


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## FizMillion (May 23, 2013)

I also spoke to them first and they were happy to provide the services for breeders. In regards to subsidised it's not a charity, there medication and flea worn prices are not great so maybe they make up for low neutering vaccs in other ways.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

FizMillion said:


> I also spoke to them first and they were happy to provide the services for breeders. In regards to subsidised it's not a charity, there medication and flea worn prices are not great so maybe they make up for low neutering vaccs in other ways.


Dont they have anymore branches in other areas?That a really good deal!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> They are trying to get all the moggies vaccinated & neutered. I have a feeling they don't see themselves as providing a super-cheap service for breeders. The chip price is cheap but if you are buying them in bulk the difference between the chip purchase price & their price for chipping for 10 minutes of a vet nurses time.
> 
> The vaccination and neutering costs (especially the later) must be heavily subsidised and I'm very surprised they are letting a breeder (if that's what Fitzmillion is) use those services.


Admit I was thinking the same thing, interesting to read they've no problem with breeders bringing in litters.

if it's not subsidised or a charity how can they have such cheap prices?


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Admit I was thinking the same thing, interesting to read they've no problem with breeders bringing in litters.
> 
> if it's not subsidised or a charity how can they have such cheap prices?


that leaves me to conclude that normal vets just have to huge profit margin scary thought


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