# Starting again....



## Gil3987

My daughter got a fish tank for her easter and we got her 2 orandas for it as advised by pets at home - but one got whitespot and then died and the other died the day after.

anyway......... i have scrubbed the tank and we are gona start again lol it is a 17l tank and i just wondered what would be the best to get for her - she is only just turned 1 so something interesting for her to look at would be good 

Look forward to your suggestions.

Also will not be going to pets at home for these fish!!

Cheers
Gill
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## Guest

First of all, does the tank have a filter?


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## Gil3987

it has a small rocket shaped thing that plugs into a black box via a small tube and this blows air through i think!

Gill
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## Gil3987

should i get one of these? Smallworld Filter by Penn Plax | Pets at Home

would it help? or is there something i woulld be better with?

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/disn...cm_re=barilliance-_-up sell-_-product details the tank is very similar to this same style, shape and lid etc but without the filter on the left.

Gill
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## Guest

I'll hazard a guess that this is the aquarium you have, given the description of the filter (Hagen Elite Stingray).

Adding another low-powered internal filter probably won't make much of a difference. In a tank this small, I'd buy a heater and go tropical. There are far more suitable tropical species for small aquariums; and believe it or not tropical fish are often hardier than their coldwater counterparts.

Diminuitive Microrasboras, Ember Tetras (_Hyphessobrycon amandae_), Sparkling/Pygmy Gouramis (_Trichopsis pumila_) and Pygmy Corydoras (_Corydoras pygmaeus_) are all very interesting to watch. Male Gouramis are known for their antics of blowing nests made of bubbles, which might appeal to kids!


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## Plebob

Okay i said this in your first thread when you got whitespot - 17 litres is too small for fish. Last time i got a very patronising reply from chillinator about nano tanks so i was reluctant to reply again. However, try googling aqadvisor and enter your dimensions and filter. Then select fish suitable for my tank. The only options that are given are shrimp, snails and betta ( which many betta lovers would completely disagree with! ) okay, now i've disagreed with chillinator again i'm doing a runner


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## Gil3987

ok thanks for ur replies guys - yeh the tank is very similar to that one chillinator, but like the one i showed with the chunky base and lid - i have put piccies up somewhere will try and find them!!

so where could i get a heater and how much would this cost me?

is a betta a cold water fish?

I found the piccies so hav added 1!

Gill
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## Guest

Plebob said:


> Okay i said this in your first thread when you got whitespot - 17 litres is too small for fish. Last time i got a very patronising reply from chillinator about nano tanks so i was reluctant to reply again. However, try googling aqadvisor and enter your dimensions and filter. Then select fish suitable for my tank. The only options that are given are shrimp, snails and betta ( which many betta lovers would completely disagree with! ) okay, now i've disagreed with chillinator again i'm doing a runner


Ahem, I did not patronize you. Many people keep _suitable_ species of fish - such as those that I've mentioned above - in tanks as small as 17 litres (technically the equivalent of 5 U.S. Gallons). Pico reefs as small as 12 litres/2.5 gallons are often used to house single Clown Gobies (_Gobiodon okinawae_).

A single, random website that uses a 'calculator-based' recommendation is hardly reliable and not good enough. This is espcially so since it is a _single_ source.

I have neither the time nor the inclincation to start petty little arguments with you.


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## Guest

Gil3987 said:


> ok thanks for ur replies guys - yeh the tank is very similar to that one chillinator, but like the one i showed with the chunky base and lid - i have put piccies up somewhere will try and find them!!
> 
> so where could i get a heater and how much would this cost me?
> 
> is a betta a cold water fish?
> 
> I found the piccies so hav added 1!
> 
> Gill
> x


A 25w heater would be ideal. For a good-quality model such as a Visitherm, this would set you back at around £15. You would also to spend an extra £50 or so on extras such as a liquid test kit - if you don't currently have one.

_Betta splendens _ is a tropical fish that thrives in temperatures around 24-28°C. The water temperature of the aquarium will need to be monitored using a digital thermometer. Do not rely on the heater's thermostat setting as an accurate guage of the temperature.


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## Quinzell

Gill, its quite possible that your original fish were sick before you introduced them to the tank. 

How long did you have the tank before adding the fish? Unfortunately, some places will let you walk out of the shop with the fish in one hand and the tank in another. All tanks need to be properly cycled before adding any fish as the tank will go through a growth phase whilst it establishes nitrifying bacteria required for keeping all of your water parameters in check. What this does, is converts the ammonia from fish waste into harmless bacteria. If you add a fish before this process has been completed, the fish are exposed to toxic ammonia which causes stress, and thus leads to health issues and possible death.


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## Gil3987

thanks louise i think they may have been ill.

the tank was set up for 7 days before the fist were added - pets at home advised 3 days but i left it 7 days with the filter on and the tap safe in. When we got the fish home we sat the bag in the tank for the recommended 20 mins and then put some tank water in without putting the bag water in the tank left them another 20 mins and then lifted the fish from the bag with the net and popped them in the tank - they seemed happy and fine for the first 2 weeks.

Gill
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## Gil3987

Right so can somebody please explain this whole tank cycling thing with the amonia to me - would i still need to do this even if i just went for cold water?

I want to get things right with this tank as my fiance is wanting to get a large tank with Silver Sharks - what size tank would we need for these and how many could we have? also could these be the only things in the tank or could they be mixed with other species?

Gill
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## Guest

You probably know that a 'mature' filter contains a population of millions of tiny bacteria which break down fish waste. They also convert ammonia produced by fish and from decaying waste into nitrite and nitrate, in a process called the nitrogen cycle.

A filter can take several weeks to mature before it is ready to handle the 'bioload' (that is, the organic waste produced by the fish) and process it.

A cycling filter needs a source of ammonia on which the bacteria can use. The best source of ammonia is bottled household ammonia which can normally be found in pharmacies and supermarkets.

You need to cycle a tank without fish regardless of whether the tank is tropical or coldwater. Cycling in a coldwater tank sometimes takes a bit longer than in a tropical aquarium as bacteria function less effectively at lower water temperatures.

As for Silver Sharks (_Balantiocheilos melanopterus_) can grow to 35cm/14" in length and are very active swimmers. Keep in mind, that these fish will need a 6 x 2 x 2ft tank, which will hold roughly 650 litres. They can be mixed with other fish however these should be fairly robust. Large Barbs such as Tinfoils, Clown Loaches, bigger Plecs, larger Characins, Scissortail Rasboras and peaceful larger Cichlid species such as Geophagus Eartheaters and Uaru would be ideal.


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