# Class Entry Questions



## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Hello!

I hope someone can help me, ive got some show schedule to enter Summer at the end of the year/start of next year but im abit confused and was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.

The first show is on 28th Dec and Summer was born on the 28th June so will be exactly 6 months on the first day of the show. Is she eligable? Or (ive heard someone mention) you dont count the first day born so she would actually be one day short?

Saying she is ok to enter, i would enter her in Whippet Puppy. the show says there is no "best puppy in show" only "best special puppy" taken from the A.V puppy winners. So if she won the whippet puppy class, would that be it or would she go forward to best of breed, then best of group etc? There doesnt seem to be any mention of best of breed judging and the best of group judging happens before the A.V Puppy class..

Im not betting that she will win her puppy class, im just trying to work out how many classes she "might" have to do in a day as i dont want to do too many at her first show. Im still trying to get my head around what classes go forward to what finals.

If it was just Whippet Puppy and thats it, i had thought about entering the A.V Hound Puppy and possibly the A.V Stakes Puppy (although might forgo the stakes as its one of the last classes of the day and i think it might be too long a day for her.) Also whats a "stakes" class? It seems to be seperate from everything else.

On the entry form there is a line for Membership fees.. what are these for and do i have to add them? the form seems to indicate its optional.

Got other questions but will leave them for another post lol

Many Thanks


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

Leam1307 said:


> Hello!
> 
> I hope someone can help me, ive got some show schedule to enter Summer at the end of the year/start of next year but im abit confused and was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.
> 
> ...


I'll try to answer but be aware, I'm often dazed and confused 
You can completely ignore membership, if you want, though it might make your class entries cheaper.
BOB is lumped in, with your breed judging, so nothing remarkable there. 
The show may not be judged on the group system, so BIS, can be a bit of a free for all, with all BOB's, 50 ish (?) dogs in the ring.
Can't help with BPIS. Maybe they're simply not having a best puppy. 
You can always pull your puppy out, if she's tired. 
Stakes classes have prize money and are outside, the remit, for BIS.
Hope that helps.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Is this a Championship Show or an Open Show?

There is no Group Judging at an Open Show.

At either type of Show, there will always be a Best of Breed Winner, judged automatically.


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## pickle (Mar 24, 2008)

Sorry to contradict but nowadays most open shows are now run on the group system


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

pickle said:


> Sorry to contradict but nowadays most open shows are now run on the group system


Yups 
The open show, I'm at tomorrow, is judged on the group system.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Thanks for this! Yes its an open show and has a line for "best in Group will now be judged" was just so confused over the puppy classes lol 

Since theres only a few breeds listed in the hound group im guessing the A.V class might be huge. Im tempted to enter her and see 1 how shes going and 2 how many are in the class.

What sort of outfit is acceptable in open shows? I was thinking brown waistcoat with cream shirt and dark brown trousers with country boots.. Or would this be too clumpy looking? Summer is a red fawn so dont want to clash or make her invisible by what im wearing.


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

Leam1307 said:


> Thanks for this! Yes its an open show and has a line for "best in Group will now be judged" was just so confused over the puppy classes lol
> 
> Since theres only a few breeds listed in the hound group im guessing the A.V class might be huge. Im tempted to enter her and see 1 how shes going and 2 how many are in the class.
> 
> What sort of outfit is acceptable in open shows? I was thinking brown waistcoat with cream shirt and dark brown trousers with country boots.. Or would this be too clumpy looking? Summer is a red fawn so dont want to clash or make her invisible by what im wearing.


Ha Ha, my current dilemma, too. Just contemplating whether to go for the ghastly, shiny, Champ Show suit or pink jeans and jacket. Your outfit sounds fine Enjoy yourself


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## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

Ok.

Yes, she is able to enter. Same applies to age restricted classes. On the day (or first day of CH shows) is fine.

If no BPIS and only Best Special Puppy taken from the AV winners then no, if you win your puppy class you may go in for Best Puppy In Breed/Best Of Breed of they award BPIB. If you happen to win BOB, then you'd go into the group. If you win that, you go against all the other group winners for Best In Show.

Every show I've been to has been judged on the group system.

The membership bit is in case you want to join the society.

I always enter AV/Stakes. Don't get confused with AVNSC as these are breed classes for breeds that don't have their own seperate classes.

They're only a puppy for so long so enjoy it while you can. 

Hope that helps.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Sorry, ive got another question 

Our next show, Summer is entered into the Whippet Junior class as there is no MP/P class for the breed.

she is also entered into the AV Minor Puppy class which states they have to be entered in a breed class if there is one available.. which there is..Junior.

Given that Junior is up to 18months im not expecting her to get placed, again the BPIS is taken from the AV puppy group winners.

So if she gets beaten in the Junior but wins the AV, do i then have to find out the ages of any dogs infront of her that were in the junior class to see if she has been "beaten" by a puppy? 

Also what would happen if she is beaten by a puppy in the junior class but for some reason they dont enter the AV class and Summer wins it? i take it no puppy from the hound group would go forward then.. Or are puppy and the adult (junior) classes kept seperate?

Im just so confused by it all. Many Thanks


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Leam1307 said:


> Sorry, ive got another question
> 
> Our next show, Summer is entered into the Whippet Junior class as there is no MP/P class for the breed.
> 
> ...


The KC have just altered the rules for this. From 1st January this year, for the next two years, stakes classes and AV classes no longer have to be taken into account when deciding if a dog is unbeaten. And dogs no longer have to be entered in a breed class before they can be entered in Av or stakes classes: Have a read of this:

Kennel Club Announces Two Year Suspension Of AV Stakes Classes & Unbeaten Dog Regulations â€¢ The Kennel Club


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

At Manchester Champ show today they were saying over the tannoy dogs beaten in the stakes classes would not be allowed to compete in the group. I have just read on FB that after they judged the terrier group they then announced that the KC had authorised them to change it and beaten dogs would be allowed into the group. We didn't stay so can only say what I've seen on FB.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

The link is dated Nov 2014.... the schedule states [as of Jan 15 and for a period of two years dogs must be entered and exhibited in a breed class before exhibiting in any av/stakes class and only unbeaten dogs are eligible to compete in the group or best in show are suspended.

Where a best puppy in show is scheduled the best puppy in show is a puppy which has competed and is unbeaten by any other puppy at the same show.

BPIS: best puppy in show must be selected from the best puppy in group winners provided they are unbeaten by another puppy.]

So does that mean i should have just entered her straight into the AV class? im still not sure what will happen if she gets beaten by a puppy in the junior class and wins her av class though?

the way the classes run is - breed classes - bob - bog - then the av puppy class
and the stakes class is after the bis has been decided.

edited to add.... just seen that link mentions jan 15 further down the page doh! must read fulkl pages first... still doesnt make sense to me though


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok so reading it properly now.. if she was to win junior but get beaten in av she would still go through to group.. (would happen anyway as the av class is after the group has been judged)

although, it states on the back page

a dog is not eligible for entry in variety classes unless also entered and exhibited in a breed class where such a class is provided

puppies eligible for BPIG at this show are all puppies unbeaten by any other puppy. please note that should there be a puppy class scheduled for a breed, then puppies must be entered in their breed class.

Oh gawd...my head hurts


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Leam1307 said:


> although, it states on the back page
> 
> a dog is not eligible for entry in variety classes unless also entered and exhibited in a breed class where such a class is provided
> 
> ...


Think i figured this part of it out.. the KC regulation is for Best Puppy in Show.. The schedule states there will be NO Best Puppy in Show.

They have a Special Puppy in Show instead, which im thinking gets them around the KC regs of not having to enter a breed class before a AV class.. very sneaky!!


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## pickle (Mar 24, 2008)

Be careful when counting your wins. Wins in minor puppy and puppy do not count when working out whether your puppy is over-qualified for some classes (i.e. novice) BUT nowadays most open shows don't have puppy classes for many breeds and if your puppy is entered in junior classes and wins, that* will *count. Novice can be a tricky one as at Champ shows the Open show wins count as well as ch show ones. It can be a bit of a minefield sometimes. Read class definitions carefully. Hope I have not confused you


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Leam1307 said:


> Ok so reading it properly now.. if she was to win junior but get beaten in av she would still go through to group.. (would happen anyway as the av class is after the group has been judged)
> 
> although, it states on the back page
> 
> ...


It's all very confusing, and it's not made any easier by the fact that the rules changed on 1st January 2015 and some of the schedules were printed before the rules changed and therefore listed the old rules. Your schedule is quoting the rules as they used to be, not the rules as they are now.

I'll try to explain it more clearly:
*
1 - Entry in breed and AV/Stakes classes*
For shows with closing dates before 1/1/15, a dog had to be entered in a breed class before it could be entered in a variety class (AV) or a stakes class. Some schedules still state this even though the rule has now changed.
For shows with closing dates after 1/1/15 a dog can be entered in variety classes and stakes classes even if it is not entered in a breed class.

*2. The unbeaten dogs rule*
A dog who wins in a breed class has to remain unbeaten in order to go into the challenge for Best of Sex. Best of Breed, and then go through to the Group competition.

For shows with closing dates before 1/1/15 this included AV classes and stakes classes - so if a dog won a breed class people used to withdraw them from the AV classes and stakes classes in order to remain unbeaten.
For shows with closing dates after 1/1/15 the AV and stakes classes do not count towards the unbeaten rule, so if you win a breed class it doesn't matter if you are beaten in AV classes or stakes classes, you are still classed as unbeaten.

*3. The Best Puppy in Show rule*
Some shows do a Best Puppy in Show competition. If your pup wins Best Puppy in Breed, they go through to the Best Puppy in Group, and if they win that they go through to Best Puppy in Show. For this to happen the pup has to be unbeaten by another puppy. Some shows don't hold this competition, and if that is the case it will state in the schedule that there is no Best Puppy in Show Competition.

For shows with closing dates before 1/1/15 this being unbeaten by any other puppy included not being beaten by any other puppy in a stakes class or AV class.
For shows with closing dates after 1/1/15 the AV and stakes classes do not count towards the unbeaten puppy rule, so if you win Best Puppyin Breed it doesn't matter if you are beaten in AV classes or stakes classes, you are still classed as unbeaten.

*4. Special Puppy in Show* I've not come across this before - I'm wondering if it is a stakes class or an AV class - what does it say in the schedule about it?

Hope this helps to make it a bit clearer but if it's brought up any other questions just ask


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Thanks thats great!!! 

The Special puppy in show is instead of the best puppy in show. It is taken from the winners of the av puppy classes. These classes are after the group judging has taken place. It then states the old rules. Im thinking they are trying to get more money by you having to enter both the breed class and the av class as its not technically a best puppy in show therefore the new rules dont apply?

Im just going to do my classes and if we win any check at the judges table what im through for lol.


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