# Trying to obtain a refund from breeder



## notamused (Nov 7, 2012)

Looking for some advice here please. I made a huge mistake, it can be called nothing else. I acted with my heart and not my head and got a puppy for my family who i truely believed desperately wanted a dog. It seems I got it wrong and in the cold light of day, we did not have sufficient time to devote to raising a puppy. Once I established this I returned the pup to breeder as soon as possible. I bought the puppy on a sunday and sadly returned it the following sunday. The breeder then kept the puppy for a further two weeks and resold him for virtually the same price as I had paid - £700. I appealed to her good nature, and a sa gesture of goodwill, to return my money or part thereof and she is flatly refusing. I think it is unfair and unethical to get paid twice for the same dog but she is refusing to budge. She tells me she charges £35 per day for toilet training which is what she did for the 2 weeks after I returned the pup and also lost time from work. I don't think I actually believe this, she lives with other people who all work together (they are dog groomers) and she has at least two other dogs at home one of whom is pregnant. Anybody care to comment please? But please, don't tell me I should have done my homework first, I got this pup for all the right reasons but sadly it was not to be. I also, when I bought the pup agreed to return it to them (at any stage of its life) if I could no longer care for it. I was so honest and did the right thing even though I had two people asking me not to return him as they would have him. I also gave the breeder lots and lots of things I had bought for the puppy, bed, blanket, towels, toys, lots of things.


----------



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Did you sign a contract with her saying if you could no longer care for the pup it would be returned to her?


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

OK this is going to sound a bit harsh but basically 

"deal with it"

You made a mistake, you got it wrong. You gave this puppy just 1 week !!! :yikes: WOW that is one hell of an underestimation in what is involved in having a pup !! 

It was YOUR responsibility to do your research before throwing your money at a cute puppy.

There are endless books, websites (it is interesting how you managed to find this site when you have a gripe about getting your money back but didnt manage to find it when you were thinking about getting a puppy !!! real shame as there are some great stickies that could have saved you all that money)

The breeder was lucky to sell the pup on in this climate, she could have ended up having to keep the puppy at cost to herself, would you have reimbursed her for her costs until she managed to find a home ???? No you wouldn't because you just dumped the problem back on her and are now pissed off she managed too sort it out to her advantage. 

Sorry, wrong place to moan about this. Gumtree and rescue shelters are full of "mistakes" like yours, poor poor pups


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Just forget about the money - the puppy is back with someone who will care for it and that is ALL that matters


----------



## Guest (Nov 7, 2012)

notamused said:


> I established this I returned the pup to breeder as soon as possible. I bought the puppy on a sunday and sadly returned it the following sunday. The breeder then kept the puppy for a further two weeks and resold him for virtually the same price as I had paid - £700. I appealed to her good nature, and a sa gesture of goodwill, to return my money or part thereof and she is flatly refusing.


breeders will _usually_ only offer to refund if there is found to be a medical problem with the puppy you are returning , you returned a perfectly healthy puppy , poor puppy messed about in the process and the breeder. she's kindly taken the puppy back (thankfully) so has kept her end of the bargain.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm sorry I must agree with what others have said, you'll just have to put it down to experience and move on. At least the puppy has got a new loving home.


----------



## BananaBassett (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't really feel you are entitled to a refund, this is an animal not an electrical product.

Sadly although you did the right thing in returning him you caused inconvenience to the breeder, as well as the poor pup. A week is no length of time ... Most people understand that owning a puppy is a demanding, time consuming thing, and much like having a child. If you didn't know this, I don't feel you did your homework.


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> OK this is going to sound a bit harsh but basically
> 
> "deal with it"
> 
> ...


I would aggree with that but
Where is the insentive to return a puupy to its breeder if things don't work out with a new owner. I'm sure if this was common practice most new owners would sell the puppy on to recoup some of their outlay


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

hawksport said:


> I would aggree with that but
> Where is the insentive to return a puupy to its breeder if things don't work out with a new owner. I'm sure if this was common practice most new owners would sell the puppy on to recoup some of their outlay


I do agree and i am sure it is why Gumtree is full of puppies where a member of the family has "allergies"  because basically people cant accept they made a stupid and costly mistake and feel they have to recoup their losses for what they consider "faulty goods". How depressing is that


----------



## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm sorry, but I'm in agreement with the previous replies. A pup is a big commitment, they need time and lots of patience, they aren't a battery operated toy that can be switched on and off at will. They're lively, loving creatures that really dont ask much of us in return for the devotion they show to us. For sure, the first few weeks can be trying, house training and the like, they will undoubtedly get muddy pawprints on the kitchen floor and hairs on your car seats, the occasional accident. That, I'm afraid. is the nature of the beast, all the homework in the world may not quite prepare you for that, it's a shame that you didn't give some thought to this before taking a young pup on board. It's also a shame that you were unable to overcome these issues because you have missed out on one fundmental thing. The absolute joy that comes with owning a dog, the pleasure that comes from watching them develop from squirming bundles of fluff into adulthood and seeing how much the work and time you may have invested has born fruit.
Apologies for the little rant.


----------



## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Usually you are only protected under the law if you bought the pup from someon operating as a business - but even if the law applied you still can't just decide you changed your mind and want a refund.

If it were me, I would have charged my boarding rate (which is also £35 a day for a puppy), taken off any advertising, any time I spent with the pup socialising it, house training it (which is much more expensive than pure boarding), time spent talking on the phone to potential new owners, home checking them, and then the time spent with owners coming to the home to view. Although I would have given you change - probably that would have cost about... £700.

It's a hard lesson, but at least you had the good grace to return the pup earlier rather than later.

I'm not sure why you're getting a hard time, people on here are always moaning that people are giving or selling dogs on gumtree. At least you had the good sense to take the dog back to the breeder!


----------



## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

OP you accept your mistake and as you have already learned pet ownership is not something that should be decided on a whim. (Quite how you got as far as buying the puppy when you were unprepared for the commitment, i don't fully understand, but that is by the by.) 

However you did absolutely the right thing in returning the pup to the breeder. Hopefully after only a week the upheaval would have had a minimal impact on the pup. I think this better than returning after three months, for example.

I think you need to think about it from the breeder's point of view. Whether you believe she incurred additional expense or not, at the end of the day she had to unexpectedly take that pup back from you and I'm sure it would have caused her inconvenience even if the expenditure was not that great. I'm not sure how much it costs to feed a growing pup but as well as this there must have been costs of advertising and as for how much she resold the pup for I don't know how you are sure of what was paid?

Another thing you need to remember is that many people will be upset by the suggestion that the pup is being treated as goods bought from a shop in you expecting a refund. It may have upset the breeder that you felt that the pup could be considered in such terms.

Maybe the breeder thinks that by refusing a refund it will make you think twice before taking on another animal?

I'm not sure how you went about asking for a refund but if you do want to pursue it then I would hope that your communication included an apology for returning the pup, a thank you for her having it back, and an assurance that you will not be taking on such a commitment for the foreseeable future. Perhaps also an acknowledgment of the inconvenience to the breeder and a suggestion as to what you think is reasonable to return to you. Sometimes the tone can make all the difference to how someone reacts.

In all honesty though I do think you should just put this down to experience and forget about the money.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I wouldn't feel I had any right to a refund if I'd bought a puppy then decided after just a few days that I didn't have time for it.


----------



## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

Mixed feelings from me. Although I agree with the breeder keeping the money for the extra work, lodging, inconvenience etc how will it encourage buyers to return the pup to the breeder if they change their mind/ circumstances change etc. Most buyers would think twice and then advertise on pets4homes,gumtree and sell the pup on for £700 instead of returning to the breeder and losing all their money. If the breeder gave half the money back they would have more chance of the pup being returned instead of it being sold on.


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

It makes me wonder what kind of vetting procedure the breeder carried out before selling the puppy for it to have been returned in 1 week


----------



## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

hawksport said:


> It makes me wonder what kind of vetting procedure the breeder carried out before selling the puppy for it to have been returned in 1 week


I was also wondering this... The OP was quite open that she had made a mistake. I would have expected a good breeder (or any animal lover really) to spot these issues before agreeing to sell...


----------



## Bagrat (Jun 4, 2012)

If the OP is thinking in terms financial - be gratefulfor all the money that has been saved on future expenditure on the pup. Well done for recognising the error and returning to the right place. Sadly our good deeds are not always rewarded as we would like.


----------



## Bonsai (Jun 9, 2012)

Hopefully the pup has now gone to someone who doesn't just see it as goods they can claim a refund on.


----------



## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Poor pup. Just be glad the breeder took the pup back, and could find it another home quickly... see it as an expensive mistake


----------



## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

ok I think it was crazy to buy a pup and return it after a week because you hadn't thought it would take time to look after, however, I had a pup return to me (after I'd had her back whilst the owner went on holiday), I sold her a week later and returned the original purchaser's money less a very small sum for 'expenses' - I think about £30 - which I considered reasonable and an incentive to return the pup to me rather than selling on 'gumtree'. Mind, I wouldn't have sold a pup to you as you'd clearly not put the thoughts into having a pup. The person who bought my pup has learned her lesson and subsequently got another pup and is doing very well with her - however I felt my pup had been though enough and I wouldn't risk returning her.

I think the breeder you bought from has done well out of this, shouldn't have sold you the pup in the first place, but should have given you a significant amount of your money back.


----------



## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

I think you got caught up in the 'puppy ' excitment and didnt actually think of the ins and outs of havng a puppy. Unfotunately this happens alot. People need to realise dogs are a lifetimes commitment. For the first few months i had malkie me and my oh never saw each other as we worked opposite times so malkie wasnt left for too long so young. You need to forget about the money,in my opinion, and think twice before getting another pet. Sorry if it sounds harsh buits my opinion


----------



## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

BoredomBusters said:


> Usually you are only protected under the law if you bought the pup from someon operating as a business - but even if the law applied you still can't just decide you changed your mind and want a refund.
> 
> If it were me, I would have charged my boarding rate (which is also £35 a day for a puppy), taken off any advertising, any time I spent with the pup socialising it, house training it (which is much more expensive than pure boarding), time spent talking on the phone to potential new owners, home checking them, and then the time spent with owners coming to the home to view. Although I would have given you change - probably that would have cost about... £700.
> 
> ...


Maybe people are giving the OP a hard time because they took the puppy back expecting a refund? What if they knew there would be no refund before they took the puppy back....

To the OP (who has probably stopped reading this thread already), it was an expensive mistake, learn from it and educate others.


----------



## Rolosmum (Oct 29, 2010)

I personally would have returned it to the breeder and not expected my money back. And been very sorry for the upheaval to both them and the puppy, and felt good that i had returned it rather than selling it on.


----------



## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I am not giving the OP an hard time for expecting a refund. She didn't think it through before getting a pup, and everything it means.. poor pup is now on it's 3rd home


----------



## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

If it were me I wouldn't give you a refund either - she could have been left with this pup for life given the number of pups about at the mo and with folk having lots of 8 week old pups to choose from she's lucky someone came along and bought a 9/10 week old one for any money at all. Chalk it up to experience and be glad for the pup having a new home.

It does happen though, a vet I used to know his high maintenace wife bought a top pedigree pup after wanting one for a year and doing a ton of research into who had the best quality show ones, she picked her pup up and returned it 2 days later as it was keeping them awake with it's crying and it pooped on the cream carpet!!! - I kid you not - she went and bought a top notch warmblood instead for a small fortune which she couldn't handle and totally ruined and that went back not long after too as did the second horse, her top pedigree £800 each cats fared a bit better as they are pretty independent things and didn't poop on the carpet!!!! Some folk seem to view animals as goods and not members of their family!!


----------



## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

hawksport said:


> I would aggree with that but
> Where is the insentive to return a puupy to its breeder if things don't work out with a new owner. I'm sure if this was common practice most new owners would sell the puppy on to recoup some of their outlay


I also agree, but on the other hand think there isn't much incentive sometimes, hence why Gumtree, Preloved and other are full of "I bought this puppy last week but...l" adverts, although I reckon a lot or these are from people who bought dogs from moneymakers so who don't want the dog back,p.

Breeders could offer money back to make returning there more likely.... Owners could man up and accept they made a costly mistake and do what's best for the dog.

It's a hard choice!


----------



## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

BananaBassett said:


> Most people understand that owning a puppy is a demanding, time consuming thing, and much like having a child. If you didn't know this, I don't feel you did your homework.


I agree with most posters here, and that you have to stack this one up to experience.

But I'll say now that I researched and researched for literally years before getting my puppy. I had a good period when I couldn't have a dog, so I spent it filling my head with as much knowledge as possible while I waited for the day I could have a dog. 
I knew a puppy would be hard, I knew it would be stressful, I knew it would be tiring, but I have to say, no amount of research could have prepared me for Dresden.
Even if I'd researched for another 20 years, I wouldn't have really known what it would involve.

I'll say that his first few months were one of the most stressful periods of my life, much like having a human child indeed.

But I was committed to making it work, 100%. I had times where I was crying on the stairs, at my wits end. But sending him back was never, ever an option. I've never given up on an animal yet, and never intend to. 
And it has gotten better. 
In another 10 months, he'll be better still.

Puppies are HARD. And I don't think until you've had one that you really realise quite how hard, even with all the research in the world. 
So while I condemn the OP for her giving up on this poor mite so soon, and so flippantly, I don't think it indicates a lack of research if someone genuinely is shocked by how hard a puppy is.
It shocked me, and I couldn't have done any more research than I did!

OP, I agree with others, you're unlikely to get a refund. 
I do feel for this poor pup. What did it do so wrong for you to give up on it in 7 days? A puppy hasn't even begun to settle in after 7 days! Its like giving up on a baby because its not perfect in 7 days! 
Dres is 10 months now, and we STILL have a long way to go, and he is still a nightmare sometimes. But we're learning, together, how to work with one another. And it doesn't happen overnight.

Puppies bite, they destroy things, they have accidents, they test you.
It took til Dresden was about 5-6 months before I can truly say I loved him. Prior to that, I liked him, I cared for him, I'd never let anyone hurt him, but I couldn't say I truly bonded with him or 'loved' him until he was 5-6 months. 
Now, someone would have to crawl over my dead body to get him off me.

The work is hard, but its so rewarding if you stick at it, something you'll never know now


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I am going to be totally honest here and say that I think you behaved irresponsibly getting a puppy without thinking it through....people like you are a breeders (and a puppys) nightmare. 

You made a mistake though (sh!t happens) and tried to correct it as best you could! I think the breeder is being harsh. In her case (yes I have been there) I would have offered a part refund (maybe 200/300 pounds) as incentive to return. What the breeder got for the pup after its return is....quite simply....none of you business....so dont let that concern you.

Also...those of you that think the breeder may not have researched the new owner enough...I research my owners to the point of interrogation...yet Ive had two pups over the years returned due to owners not being able to handle puppydom..nothing whatsoever to do with the pups.

If I were you....I would write a nice letter and ask for a couple of hundred pounds back...as a goodwill gesture considering you returned the pup as requested...stating that you have learned your lesson and regret any inconvenience caused. If she
he has a heart...she will understand.

If you get a no....put it down to experience....a VERY expensive lesson kearned.


----------



## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

you did the right thing giving the pup back to the breeder at least. but you cannot expect a refund, it's not like buying a new top then thinking oooh actually I don't like the fit of this one. Call it an expensive lesson learnt and leave it at that. 


you only gave the puppy a one week chance as well  the first few weeks I had my dog I will hold my hands up and say there were several times I thought oh god what have I done! she jumped on my laptop and broke it, pulled me right over flat on my face pulling on her lead, raided bins. But I had made a commitment when I got her and pushed through the first month of oh oh's and came out the other end with a lovely well behaved dog. I just don't understand why people only give a very short space of time to let a routine settle, and why you didn't come on here before getting a pup but found us when wanting money back. 

at least you did go back to the breeder though and are not another gumtree ad.


----------



## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

I agree with so much thats been said ..

I do have to wonder if the breeder did enough sounding you out?
Did he/she do a home visit? Talk to your family? Ask about your expeirence /expectation of dealing with puppies?

If not then the breeder does deserve some of the blame selling a pup to someone so totally unsuitable.

If I ever had pups I would be double checking and checking again on who was coming to look at / offer homes to my pups.

Or did they do that and did you pretend everything was OK...?

Its just possible that the refusal of a refund might also be to discourage you from giving in to a whim and doing something this silly again..


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

notamused said:


> Looking for some advice here please. I made a huge mistake, it can be called nothing else. I acted with my heart and not my head and got a puppy for my family who i truely believed desperately wanted a dog. It seems I got it wrong and in the cold light of day, we did not have sufficient time to devote to raising a puppy. Once I established this I returned the pup to breeder as soon as possible. I bought the puppy on a sunday and sadly returned it the following sunday. The breeder then kept the puppy for a further two weeks and resold him for virtually the same price as I had paid - £700. I appealed to her good nature, and a sa gesture of goodwill, to return my money or part thereof and she is flatly refusing. I think it is unfair and unethical to get paid twice for the same dog but she is refusing to budge. She tells me she charges £35 per day for toilet training which is what she did for the 2 weeks after I returned the pup and also lost time from work. I don't think I actually believe this, she lives with other people who all work together (they are dog groomers) and she has at least two other dogs at home one of whom is pregnant. Anybody care to comment please? But please, don't tell me I should have done my homework first, I got this pup for all the right reasons but sadly it was not to be. I also, when I bought the pup agreed to return it to them (at any stage of its life) if I could no longer care for it. I was so honest and did the right thing even though I had two people asking me not to return him as they would have him. I also gave the breeder lots and lots of things I had bought for the puppy, bed, blanket, towels, toys, lots of things.


Most breeders, on taking back an unwanted puppy, will charge boarding fees. If she has charged training fees as well, I think you have probably paid the going rate.

Let us hope that the new owners gave a bit more thought to whether they could care for a little creature.



hawksport said:


> It makes me wonder what kind of vetting procedure the breeder carried out before selling the puppy for it to have been returned in 1 week


Obviously none whatsoever.


----------



## notamused (Nov 7, 2012)

Thank you all for your opinions, advice. I agree with much of what you have all said. It was a very very sad and heartbreaking episode. I got the puppy for my family, I believed they all desperately wanting one. I however was never interested but was prepared to do it for my love of them. It all went horribly wrong when my teen daughter said 'its not how I thought it would be', she didn't have time, my son didnt have much time either due to school hours (very long) and my husband repeatedly told me throughout the week 'he didn't want a dog', that was the biggest shock and it ripped my heart out because I did it all for them. So yes a huge mistake and probably nobody paid for it more than me. I was heartbroken by my family's attitude and sad for the little pup having to be returned. I did what I thought was right for him but although I never wanted a dog I was still very sad as he was lovely. The breeders advertised him on Pets4Home and didnt ask me any questions. I honestly cant remember if they talked about refunds or not at the time of collecting him, we were so excited and never in a million years would have predicted what was to come. I paid a bank transfer deposit over the phone on a fri and collected pup on sun (first time I had seen him). I have appealed to the breeders goodwill but she doesnt want to know. I understand what people are saying about forget it, put it down to an expensive mistake, but £700???? I think the breeder is being unfair. She has another litter due soon, I guess she wont vet those prospective puppy owners either. When I collected my puppy there were other people there collecting a pup they had bought as a 'surprise' for a relative!


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

She sounds like a horrible breeder to me, stocking up on peoples money to get herself a good Christmas. I'm sorry you were scammed by an unethical breeder, but this is why homework is important. You wouldn't just go and buy a baby for your family, you shouldn't just go and buy a puppy either. A puppy is a living, breathing being that is very hard work just like a child, it needs love and attention every day for up to 15+ years, it's not something you do on a whim. I'm inclined to agree this is an expensive lesson learned, but I also think the breeder is quite selfish and wrong.


----------



## kateh8888 (Aug 9, 2011)

Regardless of the money, I really hope this pup and its litter mates ended up in a loving home. It saddens me to think that this breeder could possibly be selling them without thorough checks.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm afraid this breeder doesn't sound like the sort of person to be helpful, they probably rubbed their hands with glee when you returned your pup, knowing they could just sell it on again. Buying a puppy should be a long, thought out process, with lots of research into the breeder and the breed. We all make mistakes, but even the tiniest bit of research before hand could have saved you a lot of money, if you'd asked on here about paying in full by bank transfer, all of us would have said walk away and find another breeder. 

The problem is, good breeders would be unwilling to sell to anyone who hadn't, in their view, got the time or space, and hadn't really fully prepared themselves for a new pup. So even if you had contacted a good breeder by accident, you would most likely have been turned away, and gone on to the first breeder who would accept your cash. 

It really can't be emphasised enough just how much research people need to do before buying a living breathing creature. I'm really sorry for your predicament, I'm not sure there can be a way out of it, but I hope you will spread the message about buying a pup from a good breeder only after doing your research


----------



## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree with Phloof, she doesnt sound like a very good breeder at all!
People could pick up a pup and walk away on the first visit? 

Not a nice breeder at all. Sad to say, sounds like a VERY expensive lesson learnt.
Shame on that lady and poor dogs :-(


----------



## BananaBassett (Apr 24, 2012)

Shadowrat said:


> I agree with most posters here, and that you have to stack this one up to experience.
> 
> But I'll say now that I researched and researched for literally years before getting my puppy. I had a good period when I couldn't have a dog, so I spent it filling my head with as much knowledge as possible while I waited for the day I could have a dog.
> I knew a puppy would be hard, I knew it would be stressful, I knew it would be tiring, but I have to say, no amount of research could have prepared me for Dresden.
> ...


Whilst I agree with everything you have said, I do feel the OP bought the puppy simply to please her family. A lovely gesture but a life-tipping-upside-down gesture for the puppy.

I don't think there was enough research into this, or any real discussion with the children about what is required in looking after a puppy. Both parents didnt even want a dog - surely they didnt expect the children of whom would mostly be at school etc, to do all the graft?

I also do not feel a week is enough time to make a decision. You can't put a baby back after a week when you realise it is very much harder than you thought.

Maybe I've read the OP post incorrectly and got the wrong end of the stick - if so I take it back and apologise. I'm sorry it went wrong for you but next time think long and hard before adding a dependant creature to your family again.

Also, well done to you for preserving with Dresden , I think we have all had moments where we wonder if we have done the right thing at times.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

notamused said:


> Thank you all for your opinions, advice. I agree with much of what you have all said. It was a very very sad and heartbreaking episode. I got the puppy for my family, I believed they all desperately wanting one. I however was never interested but was prepared to do it for my love of them. It all went horribly wrong when my teen daughter said 'its not how I thought it would be', she didn't have time, my son didnt have much time either due to school hours (very long) and my husband repeatedly told me throughout the week 'he didn't want a dog', that was the biggest shock and it ripped my heart out because I did it all for them. So yes a huge mistake and probably nobody paid for it more than me. I was heartbroken by my family's attitude and sad for the little pup having to be returned. I did what I thought was right for him but although I never wanted a dog I was still very sad as he was lovely. The breeders advertised him on Pets4Home and didnt ask me any questions. I honestly cant remember if they talked about refunds or not at the time of collecting him, we were so excited and never in a million years would have predicted what was to come. I paid a bank transfer deposit over the phone on a fri and collected pup on sun (first time I had seen him). I have appealed to the breeders goodwill but she doesnt want to know. I understand what people are saying about forget it, put it down to an expensive mistake, but £700???? I think the breeder is being unfair. She has another litter due soon, I guess she wont vet those prospective puppy owners either. When I collected my puppy there were other people there collecting a pup they had bought as a 'surprise' for a relative!


I know this is very much closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, but I cannot believe anyone would buy a puppy for her own family that she lives with and not know whether they actually want a dog. You don't want a dog, your husband doesn't want a dog, and your kids are not mature enough to know what they want. They are your family - why don't you know them better than that?

You have stumbled across a small time puppy farmer or back yard breeder who couldn't care less who the pups go to, so I am not surprised she won't refund. I don't know what breed the dog is, but most breeds require health tests; I wouldn't mind betting these dogs never had any.

Being as how you and your family feel, please, please don't ever think of having a pet again.


----------



## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

BananaBassett said:


> Also, well done to you for preserving with Dresden , I think we have all had moments where we wonder if we have done the right thing at times.


Oh, he isn't as bad as some  He was just my first dog, and first pup, and I suppose I had nothing to compare him to, having not done the whole dog thing before. Worked with dogs for years, but having your own pup is very different! 
I still tell myself now that in future, its adult dogs only for me, never another puppy!

But then I look at his baby pics and think 'OMG I want another puppy!'


----------



## BobbyBrownDog (Oct 30, 2012)

notamused said:


> Thank you all for your opinions, advice. I agree with much of what you have all said. It was a very very sad and heartbreaking episode. I got the puppy for my family, I believed they all desperately wanting one. I however was never interested but was prepared to do it for my love of them. It all went horribly wrong when my teen daughter said 'its not how I thought it would be', she didn't have time, my son didnt have much time either due to school hours (very long) and my husband repeatedly told me throughout the week 'he didn't want a dog', that was the biggest shock and it ripped my heart out because I did it all for them. So yes a huge mistake and probably nobody paid for it more than me. I was heartbroken by my family's attitude and sad for the little pup having to be returned. I did what I thought was right for him but although I never wanted a dog I was still very sad as he was lovely. The breeders advertised him on Pets4Home and didnt ask me any questions. I honestly cant remember if they talked about refunds or not at the time of collecting him, we were so excited and never in a million years would have predicted what was to come. I paid a bank transfer deposit over the phone on a fri and collected pup on sun (first time I had seen him). I have appealed to the breeders goodwill but she doesnt want to know. I understand what people are saying about forget it, put it down to an expensive mistake, but £700???? I think the breeder is being unfair. She has another litter due soon, I guess she wont vet those prospective puppy owners either. When I collected my puppy there were other people there collecting a pup they had bought as a 'surprise' for a relative!


Hi notamused,

Sorry to hear that this didnt work out for you 

My advice is to go ask the question on another forum more geared toward what advice you need, (moneysavingexpert.com forum for example) as on a forum like this you will always be deemed 'the bad guy' because you have (in most peoples opinion) caused undue stress and messed around a poor pup and are considered an irresponsible person blah blah blah. Unfortunately there are a lot 'breeders' who see their dogs as money makers and it seems you found one.

I personally feel you are entitled to a refund of some sorts. If you have bought the pup and then returned it for whatever reason, then they charge you boarding fees or whatever, then that would mean that the pup is still yours or they would have no right to charge you for boarding of a pup that you no longer own. If it is the case that you still own the pup and they have resold the pup, then you are entitled to what they have resold it for as the pup is still yours and not theres to sell. IMO they either have to refund you full or part for returning the pup so they are then taking back ownership of the pup. If they have charged you for boarding then they must not have taken back ownership of the pup, therefore they have resold *your* pup and *you *are entitled to the proceeds of the sale.

I think all the people who have posted on this thread slating the OP needs to have a word with themsleves. The *OP has admitted to making a mistake* and has just asked for advice on whether a refund is a legitamate request, and you guys are just giving grief and trying to make them feel bad. 
Shame on all of you :thumbdown:

Good luck OP


----------



## Izzysmummy (Oct 12, 2011)

notamused said:


> Thank you all for your opinions, advice. I agree with much of what you have all said. It was a very very sad and heartbreaking episode. I got the puppy for my family, I believed they all desperately wanting one. I however was never interested but was prepared to do it for my love of them. It all went horribly wrong when my teen daughter said 'its not how I thought it would be', she didn't have time, my son didnt have much time either due to school hours (very long) and my husband repeatedly told me throughout the week 'he didn't want a dog', that was the biggest shock and it ripped my heart out because I did it all for them. * So yes a huge mistake and probably nobody paid for it more than me*. I was heartbroken by my family's attitude and sad for the little pup having to be returned. I did what I thought was right for him but although I never wanted a dog I was still very sad as he was lovely. The breeders advertised him on Pets4Home and didnt ask me any questions. I honestly cant remember if they talked about refunds or not at the time of collecting him, we were so excited and never in a million years would have predicted what was to come. I paid a bank transfer deposit over the phone on a fri and collected pup on sun (first time I had seen him). I have appealed to the breeders goodwill but she doesnt want to know. I understand what people are saying about forget it, put it down to an expensive mistake, but £700???? I think the breeder is being unfair. She has another litter due soon, I guess she wont vet those prospective puppy owners either. When I collected my puppy there were other people there collecting a pup they had bought as a 'surprise' for a relative!


I would have to disagree with this statement, I think the poor pup is the true victim here! Bred by a bad breeder only in it for the money who doesnt care who the pups go to, bought by a family who didnt really want him and didnt give him a chance, only to be passed back to the same bad breeder who sold him on to probably an equally unsuitable home! We can only hope that where he has ended up they will give him and chance and be prepared to put in the hard work!

My OH and I were totally overwhelmed when we got Izzy, we both shed tears on bad days when her puppy nipping meant she launched herself at your face trying to attack your nose but we stuck at it. She still has issues and is a very anxious girl but we've never given up on her and have worked our asses off with her and are now seeing the wonderful dog she can be!

Just to note; As a kid I asked repeatedly for a dog, I wanted one more than anything but my Dad said "no". He knew the hard work involved and that he would end up looking after the dog because my sister and I as teenagers would get bored/be too busy and he knew it wouldnt be fair on a dog to bring it into an already busy household where nobody would really be able to give it the time it deserves! My parents now have a dog but they waited until my sister and I moved out when they had more time to give to Millie!


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

BobbyBrownDog said:


> Hi notamused,
> 
> Sorry to hear that this didnt work out for you
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone is really slating the OP, she knows she did the wrong thing. She came to ask about getting a refund and I, for one, don't think she will. It is really up to the breeder whether she gives a refund; personally I am surprised that this sort of breeder even took the pup back. I doubt she would have at a later stage because it would have been much harder to sell.

The sort of breeder who will take the dog back and give a partial or full refund are the sort who want their dogs brought back because they want a say in where it goes. This breeder couldn't care less.


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

hawksport said:


> It makes me wonder what kind of vetting procedure the breeder carried out before selling the puppy for it to have been returned in 1 week


Not read the whole thread yet but just wanted to rspond to this. Speaking from personal experience, the breeder's vetting process may still have been spot on. I'll never forget the experience we had with Quinny.

Originally we were not planning on keeping him - we sold him to a family in Norwich who seemd absolutely ideal. They had been to Discover Dogs and talked to border collie owners about what owning a border collie meant, and they were really clued up about the needs of border collies and how to look after them properly - they even understood about how border collie pups can tend to nip and they knew how to deal with this (they had read "The Bite Stops Here"). They were not new dog owners; they already had a 2 year old labradoodle so the children knew about dogs and how to behave around dogs. They had a son (think he was about 12) who was interested in agility and had joined the YKC so that he could pursue this with his border collie once it was old enough. We went to Norwich to do a home check - they had a secure garden and their labradoodle was happy and healthy and the kids were obviously used to being around dogs. In short, they seemed ideal buyers for Quinny.

Yet less than 24 hours after our taking him to them, they rang us with a cock and bull story about Quinny having bitten her daughter's leg - through her jeans - so hard it had bled for a long time, and they didn't want to keep him.

We went straight down and brought him back - there wasn't even a mark on the girl's leg so we guess it was a made up story to justify returning him. We kept their deposit and kept Quinny for ourselves, and the rest is history - and a nicer, gentler dog you couldn't wish to find, as the members on here who have met him can testify. (The original thread about this, while it was actually happening, is on here somewhere, but it was before I left and came back so I can't access it)

So, after all theat ramble, what I wanted to say was that sometimes breeders can get it wrong through no fault of their own.


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> Not read the whole thread yet but just wanted to rspond to this. Speaking from personal experience, the breeder's vetting process may still have been spot on. I'll never forget the experience we had with Quinny.
> 
> Originally we were not planning on keeping him - we sold him to a family in Norwich who seemd absolutely ideal. They had been to Discover Dogs and talked to border collie owners about what owning a border collie meant, and they were really clued up about the needs of border collies and how to look after them properly - they even understood about how border collie pups can tend to nip and they knew how to deal with this (they had read "The Bite Stops Here"). They were not new dog owners; they already had a 2 year old labradoodle so the children knew about dogs and how to behave around dogs. They had a son (think he was about 12) who was interested in agility and had joined the YKC so that he could pursue this with his border collie once it was old enough. We went to Norwich to do a home check - they had a secure garden and their labradoodle was happy and healthy and the kids were obviously used to being around dogs. In short, they seemed ideal buyers for Quinny.
> 
> ...


They paid by bank transfer after a phone call and then collected the puppy with no questions asked


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

hawksport said:


> They paid by bank transfer after a phone call and then collected the puppy with no questions asked


Ah - now that's quite a different story! (I did say I hadn't read the rest of the thread  ) That is definitely a breeder in it for the money!


----------



## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

A salutary lesson.

1. Somewhat appalled by a breeder who operates like this. We were invited to visit Scrabble as much as we wanted which meant we got to see her at a few days old in the home environment which assuaged any concerns. There was frequent communication and the breeder requested occasional updates. I'm not surprised that someone who only let you see the pup after taking money has refused a refund, which brings me to ...

2. Why, oh, why, would someone bring a pup into a family as a 'surprise?' It, at least ideally, requires a great deal of planning and time commitments. Work just went on hold for OH and I for a few weeks, and we certainly wouldn't have done it if I didn't work from home anyway. They destroy things, test what they can get away with, explore, nip and require hours of attention. Are you really surprised that a teenager didn't want to deal with this?

Morally, I think you should consider this a very expensive lesson.


----------



## koolchick (Apr 5, 2011)

notamused said:


> Thank you all for your opinions, advice. I agree with much of what you have all said. It was a very very sad and heartbreaking episode. I got the puppy for my family, I believed they all desperately wanting one. I however was never interested but was prepared to do it for my love of them. It all went horribly wrong when my teen daughter said 'its not how I thought it would be', she didn't have time, my son didnt have much time either due to school hours (very long) and my husband repeatedly told me throughout the week 'he didn't want a dog', that was the biggest shock and it ripped my heart out because I did it all for them. So yes a huge mistake and probably nobody paid for it more than me. I was heartbroken by my family's attitude and sad for the little pup having to be returned. I did what I thought was right for him but although I never wanted a dog I was still very sad as he was lovely. The breeders advertised him on Pets4Home and didnt ask me any questions. I honestly cant remember if they talked about refunds or not at the time of collecting him, we were so excited and never in a million years would have predicted what was to come. I paid a bank transfer deposit over the phone on a fri and collected pup on sun (first time I had seen him). I have appealed to the breeders goodwill but she doesnt want to know. I understand what people are saying about forget it, put it down to an expensive mistake, but £700???? I think the breeder is being unfair. She has another litter due soon, I guess she wont vet those prospective puppy owners either. When I collected my puppy there were other people there collecting a pup they had bought as a 'surprise' for a relative!


Can I just ask do you live or did you get the pup from Rotherham area? and was it a Boarder Terrier? Probably not but just wondering as my mum her friend and friends husband picked a BT up for me in late September as ca surprise for me.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Barcode said:


> A salutary lesson.
> 
> 1. Somewhat appalled by a breeder who operates like this. We were invited to visit Scrabble as much as we wanted *which meant we got to see her at a few days old in the home environment *which assuaged any concerns. There was frequent communication and the breeder requested occasional updates. I'm not surprised that someone who only let you see the pup after taking money has refused a refund, which brings me to ...
> 
> ...


To be honest that's fairly irresponsible on the part of the breeder, possibly through ignorance, but at that age, when they are so tiny, if they pick up an infection it can be so much more serious. I didn't let anyone in the door until pups were four weeks old and I made people wash their hands and take their shoes off.

I got an email enquiry for a pup from the girlfriend of a footballer, who told me they would visit the pups when they were one week old and choose their pup. My response was very polite but left them in no doubt about who was deciding on the timing of visits or whether indeed someone was suitable for one of my pups, let alone which specific one. I didn't hear from them again, I assume they got a pup from someone who did what they wanted rather than what was right for the pup.


----------



## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

Really? This was in a busy household with their children and grandchildren coming through, so perhaps two more people were not considered a problem. We did have a choice out of four, but the breeder did explain what they thought each personality was and so on - we ended up with the 'fiesty' one :laugh:

I certainly don't think our breeder was unethical in any way. Big difference between that and not being 100% informed on some things. Scrabble clearly came from a loving home and had an excellent start. If we encountered someone like the O.P, then commonsense would surely suggest to stay away.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I let a couple of friends come and help out during the first couple of weeks, everyone else was kept away, and those friends pretty much brought a whole change of clothes with them, and washed hands before they went anywhere near the pups. I relaxed a little when they were old enough, and mobile enough, to pop out into the garden to play for a little while. 

I let my parents come and visit once pups were old enough to be seen by their new owners, it just isn't worth risking it. My brother and his kids only got to see two other pups other than the one I kept. 

One of the members who used to post on here, had a family come to view pups, and they hadn't told her they'd popped in and seen another litter en-route. They took an infection in from that litter with them, and all her pups were then very poorly.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Barcode said:


> Really? This was in a busy household with their children and grandchildren coming through, so perhaps two more people were not considered a problem. We did have a choice out of four, but the breeder did explain what they thought each personality was and so on - we ended up with the 'fiesty' one :laugh:
> 
> I certainly don't think our breeder was unethical in any way. Big difference between that and not being 100% informed on some things. Scrabble clearly came from a loving home and had an excellent start. If we encountered someone like the O.P, then commonsense would surely suggest to stay away.


Puppies are very vulnerable to infection at only a few days old, so it probably wasn't a wise move even if they didn't realise. My newfies' breeder had a bowl of disinfectant on her doorstep and anyone coming in the house had to walk through it before they could get in. Then you took off your shoes and put little disposable paper bootees on your bare feet. Then you got sent to the bathroom to wash your hands in special washing stuff. The pups were four weeks old then.

I heard of someone years ago who lost a whole litter of puppies through letting someone pick them up without these precautions. Thereafter, potential buyers were only allowed to view them through a video feed.


----------



## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

I have to say I agree with most of the posts. Bite the bullet on this one. If you are thinking in terms of financial reinbursement, think of the time and effort you will put in and even more financial losses like proceeding with litigation or taking time off work to continuing challenging the breeder for a refund.

Let this be a lesson that animals are not something to be bought on a 'whim' Whilst your heart and intentions may have been in the right place, to put any animal on someone elses shoulders is very naive and negligent to the animal. All animals deserve a willing and loving home first and foremost. Research into the matter would've saved you money and the emotional frustrations and hurt you are experiencing. This website is a fountain of knowledge from a wide range of experienced animal owners and lovers for that matter.

I know in this day and age £700 is a lot of money, but as a professional buyer I would say "Caveat Emptor" which is latin for "Let the buyer beware"


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I let a couple of friends come and help out during the first couple of weeks, everyone else was kept away, and those friends pretty much brought a whole change of clothes with them, and washed hands before they went anywhere near the pups. I relaxed a little when they were old enough, and mobile enough, to pop out into the garden to play for a little while.
> 
> I let my parents come and visit once pups were old enough to be seen by their new owners, it just isn't worth risking it. My brother and his kids only got to see two other pups other than the one I kept.
> 
> One of the members who used to post on here, had a family come to view pups, and they hadn't told her they'd popped in and seen another litter en-route. They took an infection in from that litter with them, and all her pups were then very poorly.


That is what happened with the litter I was talking about, but they all died. They were German Shepherds.


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Op best thing you can do is tell everyone you know about what has happened- the excitement, through to the reality of the puppy through to no money from the breeder who never asked and didn't care.


Maybe then you can help prevent things like this from happening again to families like yours and puppies like that.


----------



## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating a anything here.

Aside from the moral and ethical considerations, did you have any agreement with the breeder, verbal or written, regarding a refund? If not, I'm afraid you're going to have to mark this one down to experience. I have heard of breeders making arrangements such as taking a puppy back, reselling it and then giving the previous owner a token amount less the breeders expenses but unless this was explicitly agreed you won't be receiving anything back.


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Poor puppy is all I can say here......born into this world by a GREEDER just wanting to make money.......bought by somebody that didnt give due thought to such a serious decision.....returned to GREEDER.....sold on to god knows who!!!!! 

Who on earth would pay a deposit by Bank Transfer without meeting pup and breeder in person...the mind boggles...

I am afraid OP the more I hear...the less likely you will get anything back financially....and quite honestly.....this breeder has the ethics of a puppy farmer....did you really expect to get reimbursed for YOUR mistake by somebody who sells pups in such an unethical...irresponsible way?

We all make mistakes but you made a series of them....can I please ask what breed this puppy is?


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

I just wanted to say i don't apologise for what i said and i don't need to take a look at myself.

I am generally very sympathetic when people have made genuine and honest mistakes. I am the first to say Puppies are much harder work than you can ever imagine which is why i hve been sure to post the negative side of having my lovely new pupster as well as the cute and fluffy pics.

I have to say i just think this whole sorry mess is indicative of the scant regard paid to dog ownership these days both from the dodgy breeder and the buyer in this case. Everyone wants the bloody "Disney" version and ignores the huge commitment and reality because surely you can just take it back and get you cash back when it doesn't work out. If you condone that attitude then you further confirm pets as mere accesories to some sort of "lifestyle magazine idyll" :incazzato:

Ignorance really is no excuse which is why i think the OP really does have to take this one on the chin and get over the financial loss. Harsh lesson but a lesson learnt never the less. 

Sorry Op i really dont mean this to be harsh on you as you do sound genuinely sorry for your mistake but the best thing now is to just hope the pupster found a great home . Yes the breeder probably should have given you a few quid back but its unlikely she will given the type of breeder she appears to be sadly but again that was where your homework should have gone a bit further  I would suggest if you feel very strongly you should seek legal advice and look to the small claims court.


----------



## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Sounds like a terrible breeder.

You've acknowledged you made a mistake and you did the *RIGHT *thing by ensuring the pup went back to the breeder. That's what is meant to happen; alas, as this awful breeder does not vet new owners at all, we have to just pray that all her pups do end up with decent people.

I'm sure it was an upsetting episode and that you didn't intend for this to be the outcome.

I do think the breeder *could* give you back some of what you paid given that she sold the pup on. However, as she or he is clearly an unethical git, in every way, I don't think you have a hope in hell of seeing any of your money again.

Which dog breed was it, just out of interest...?


----------



## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

Only read the original posters posts and skipped through other replies, so apologies if I am repeating what others have said!

All I can say is... I would NEVER buy a pet of any species for a Child/Children or even Partner no matter how much they nagged, unless I was prepared myself to look after this pet for its entire lifespan, assuming I would have no help. 
Research aside, if you do not want an animal and you are not prepared to travel to the depths of despair and back whilst the new pet settles in and you get past all the training... then DO NOT get that pet! 

As for refund...... it was not a faulty toaster I'm affraid 
You can not buy a life and then just a week later decide, well actually I don't want it because it is too much like hardwork :thumbdown:

My dog is almost 3 now and he is still hardwork, but luckily I have a sense of humour and so does the dog, so we get on great and completely over look each others failings


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Julesky said:


> Op best thing you can do is tell everyone you know about what has happened- the excitement, through to the reality of the puppy through to no money from the breeder who never asked and didn't care.
> 
> Maybe then you can help prevent things like this from happening again to families like yours and puppies like that.


The best post on this thread


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

My nephew's wife went and bought a yorkie puppy even though he said he didn't want a dog just yet. She had him for one night, came downstairs in the morning, found he had messed on the floor and decided she couldn't possibly cope with that and took him back. She also complained that the breeder would not refund her.

A year later she bought a JR cross puppy; had that one a whole week before she decided it was too much effort.

What made me really mad was xmas before last, when I rushed home from the family do because Joshua's arthritis had been playing up and I didn't want him in pain and no one to help him, she had the bloody nerve to say: "poor dog".

God knows how she would have coped with a giant breed puppy and then an adult one with arthritis at only 16 months. Taken him back and demanded a refund I suppose.

A little off topic, but I just wanted to point out that it happens a lot and people in those circumstances should not expect a refund.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> OK this is going to sound a bit harsh but basically
> 
> "deal with it"
> 
> ...


yep! think our rainybow's said all that needs saying.
but will add its not unreasonable for a breeder to charge £35 a day either for day boarding.
!


----------



## notamused (Nov 7, 2012)

He was a beautiful cocker spaniel


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

BobbyBrownDog said:


> Hi notamused,
> 
> Sorry to hear that this didnt work out for you
> 
> ...


I feel no shame for my comments! none whatsover thank you very much!
Gumtree is full of the fads of people who'don't think'
Animal shelters are full of poor innocents who's previous owners never thought!
Thousand of animals are pts every day, the last breathe taken in a cold hostile environment!
Just because people do not think!

Those are the ones who should be showing shame!:thumbdown: NOT ME

That said OP, the breeder does not sound an ethical one!
And personally I think that ANY proceeds from the resale of this pup should be donated to an animal charity! maybe you could suggest that too her to see what her reply is to that!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

BobbyBrownDog said:


> Hi notamused,
> 
> Sorry to hear that this didnt work out for you
> 
> ...


Oh, so because it was a "mistake" that makes it alright, does it? Sorry, I don't agree with you. For "made a mistake" read "Buying on a whim with no knowledge, research, or thought that a living cresture was involved". Shelters are full of dogs whose owners have made such "mistakes". :incazzato:

The breeder seems to leave a lot to be desired, but so does the purchaser. Someone (I think it was chichi) has already said that the only loser when caught bewteen a bad breeder and an ignorant buyer is the dog - well, here's hoping that this poor little dog has found a forever home now.



RAINYBOW said:


> I just wanted to say i don't apologise for what i said and i don't need to take a look at myself.
> 
> I am generally very sympathetic when people have made genuine and honest mistakes. I am the first to say Puppies are much harder work than you can ever imagine which is why i hve been sure to post the negative side of having my lovely new pupster as well as the cute and fluffy pics.
> 
> ...


Spot on, Rainybow. If I could rep you again I would, but the system won't let me!


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

notamused said:


> He was a beautiful cocker spaniel


Thank you for answering about the breed

I hope he is now settled in his forever home.

If you still want to pursue the breeder asking for a part refund...you could ask if she is registered with the Council and the Tax Office....might just be incentive to get rid of you for a couple of hundred quid....maybe. On the other hand....she may become abusive and give you a mouthful.

I only mention the Council because this breeder sounds like she is more than a hobby breeder.....with accepting payment by bank transfer and charging board for the pup. I could be wrong though.


----------

