# Cruciate Ligament Rupture Advice/Diary



## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Just came back from the vets being told Cassie now has a Cruciate Ligament Rupture. Can anyone help me decide which operation is best to go for. I've been given 2 options, TPLO or Lateral Imbrication Suture Technique. The former being considerably more expensive at £2000 and having to be referred to a specialist to do it, and the latter being done at my local vets. Cassie's 37kg, quite small for a Rottweiler, she's 9 years old, so possibly only got 3-4 years left with us but she's quite lively and active.

I've heard the TPLO is better for larger dogs, but I don't think we could really afford it. We've been quoted £600 for the Lateral Imbrication Suture technique which would be preferable money wise, but would it be pointless going for it due to her being 37kg?

Another option we've been given is for her not to have surgery and to see how it goes, but I'm guessing this wouldn't be the best option to take?

Hope someone can help!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/93861-cruciate-operation-diary.html

TPLO, mine had both done and it's a pretty much guaranteed cure. Is she not insured?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Tplo I'm afraid for a dog that size, and as soon as possible before she does too much damage to the joint.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

My dog Toby (just turned 9) had TPLO surgery end of March & is almost back to normal again.

He coped remarkably well with the period of complete rest & then I gradually increased his exercise, making sure not to ver do things too much (maybe a bit over cautious at times!).

Personally I would opt for TPLO as you want to make sure that she is comfortable & pain free as possible during her older years especially if she is still so active.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

She used to be insured from when we got her up until she was 7, but insurance premiums went up the older she got and possibly due to her breed it became financially pointless to have insurance. From the quotes I received the op would still cost £1300 with insurance, £2000 without and that's not including monthly premiums =[ I have saved up money and tried to soften any vets fees that way but she's just had £300 recently spent on skin scrapings and other tests, antibiotics and steroids. And last year she torn her front leg open on glass and required surgery which was very expensive. It's one thing after another with her.

I really can't afford £2000 for TPLO, would the alternative £600 option be a failure? I've read from articles that opinions are divided and some people see the two methods being pretty much the same success rate regardless of weight due to the sutures being pretty good these days. Whereas others say TPLO should definately be used on larger dogs.

Don't know what to do


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

As for being active, im not sure what an active dog is. But to put it in perspective. She still jumps about, runs, and plays with other dogs. Everyone still thinks she's a puppy. She has an hour and half walk everyday, some days 2x 1hour walks, when she's at home she's pretty dormant and sleeps or lies down quite a lot, unless she hears or sees the neighbours cat in which case she gets all flustered and starts running about. I guess for her age she's active but compared to younger dogs obviously not!

She's currently resting without any walks. But i don't see how rest alone would be able to cure a torn ligament.

Oh, to top the whole cost thing off, the vets charged out of hours price because she went in as an emergency 5minutes to closing time, having to go in today to pay so no idea how much that's going to cost. We saw a different vet than usual at the practice so im going to try and get a consultation with my usual vet today and hear what he has to say about it.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Alfie has been fine with the cheaper operation, he weighs about 32kg, though I'm ultra careful with his jumping and twisting.
With the operation he had they really have to be kept as still as possible because it's the scar tissue which forms that really holds the joint together.

Because it's the scar tissue which is important in recovery, many small dogs can get over a torn ligament with just rest. It rarely if ever happens with big dogs


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> Alfie has been fine with the cheaper operation, he weighs about 32kg, though I'm ultra careful with his jumping and twisting.
> With the operation he had they really have to be kept as still as possible because it's the scar tissue which forms that really holds the joint together.
> 
> Because it's the scar tissue which is important in recovery, many small dogs can get over a torn ligament with just rest. It rarely if ever happens with big dogs


It's good to hear alfies recovered well. How long has it been since the operation?

I've been trying to read up on the actual operations, I kind of know what the cheaper one consists of. However im not entirely sure about TPLO. I gather they manipulate the tip of the bone so its no longer on a slope, but I don't see how that replaces the ligament? Do they not need a ligament if the bone is flat?

I've also read the operation depends on the slope of the bone in the first place so if its already flat then TPLO wouldn't be needed, yet if its on a steep slope then the cheaper option wouldn't be successfull. Does this mean its best to have an x-ray to determine which procedure is best?


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Just got back from seeing our usual vet, he operated on her leg last year which was successfull so I trust him. He said Cassie would be fine having the cheaper treatment, she's not overweight and he said she's not a huge dog. If we had insurance he said he'd definately reccomend the specialist treatment due to the recovery time and outcome being extremely good. But he said he's done the operation on larger dogs and he does them all the time without many problems. I think to be honest its all i can afford for her to have, i feel like I'm giving her second best, there's just no physical way i can find 2k +cost of follow up treatment 

He waived the out of hours consultation charge for yesterday and only charged standard prices, which i guess is good, but meh.. I feel bad, like im doing the wrong thing.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I hate to tell you this, but usually the other cruciate will follow  My dog cost over £6000 for both to be done. Insurance paid for one leg but the other was deemed to be a pre existing condition so we paid for half of that.

The dog was back to full fitness within 6 months. (Springer, full fitness = pelting at top speed through cover etc)

If I were you, I'd be looking at insurance for future issues (non related as this will now be excluded from your insurance)


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> I hate to tell you this, but usually the other cruciate will follow  My dog cost over £6000 for both to be done. Insurance paid for one leg but the other was deemed to be a pre existing condition so we paid for half of that.
> 
> The dog was back to full fitness within 6 months. (Springer, full fitness = pelting at top speed through cover etc)
> 
> If I were you, I'd be looking at insurance for future issues (non related as this will now be excluded from your insurance)


I'll look again but all quotes were absured, most being £40 monthly premiums, 40-50% excess with a minimum of £300. it worked out cheaper without insurance. It's why we stopped the insurance. Is there something im doing wrong with the quotes, or is it just because of her age and breed?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

cinammontoast said:


> I hate to tell you this, but usually the other cruciate will follow  My dog cost over £6000 for both to be done. Insurance paid for one leg but the other was deemed to be a pre existing condition so we paid for half of that.
> 
> The dog was back to full fitness within 6 months. (Springer, full fitness = pelting at top speed through cover etc)
> 
> If I were you, I'd be looking at insurance for future issues (non related as this will now be excluded from your insurance)


The other cruciate will only go if it was the construction of the knee joint that contributed towards the first cruciate rupture, it's usually too upright a stifle or knee that can cause this. If it was an awkward twist, old injury that contributed to the rupture, the condition isn't necessarily bilateral from what I understand. Indie ruptured her cruciate as a youngster, and the other knee is still fine 5 1/2 years later


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ryanr said:


> Just got back from seeing our usual vet, he operated on her leg last year which was successfull so I trust him. He said Cassie would be fine having the cheaper treatment, she's not overweight and he said she's not a huge dog. If we had insurance he said he'd definately reccomend the specialist treatment due to the recovery time and outcome being extremely good. But he said he's done the operation on larger dogs and he does them all the time without many problems. I think to be honest its all i can afford for her to have, i feel like I'm giving her second best, there's just no physical way i can find 2k +cost of follow up treatment
> 
> He waived the out of hours consultation charge for yesterday and only charged standard prices, which i guess is good, but meh.. I feel bad, like im doing the wrong thing.


Don't feel bad, you are doing what you can for her. Read up as much as you can, make sure you listen to the vets advice regarding recovery & make sure she doesn't put on too much weight during this period.

If you need any help or tips for activities you can do when she is recovering then just ask & people will help you out


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

I've just looked again at pet insurance, been on money supermarket, the cheapest quote being £10/month but that's with some obscure company ive never heard of. the rest of the quotes and also the well known insurers are £40-50 per month, averaging 35% excess. The pdsa is £135 a month! Complete joke, I don't understand how people insure their pets at this age. It works out cheaper not to, and even then its bleeding expensive. =[

Regards to it happening to her other knee, I have read about that elsewhere too. Whether her problem was caused by her bone structure I don't really know. We got her when she was 5-6 years she was a rescue dog, before this I don't know if she had any other knee problems, but whilst she's been with us she hasn't, so im guessing her bone structure is ok and it just happened because she twisted her leg. She was out playing with her friends in the park, she went down a hill and came back up limping so im guessing she did just twist it.

I feel bad and selfish for adopting her now, if someone else with more money would have she'd have a better quality life. She's had nothing but problems the poor thing


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ryanr said:


> I've just looked again at pet insurance, been on money supermarket, the cheapest quote being £10/month but that's with some obscure company ive never heard of. the rest of the quotes and also the well known insurers are £40-50 per month, averaging 35% excess. The pdsa is £135 a month! Complete joke, I don't understand how people insure their pets at this age. It works out cheaper not to, and even then its bleeding expensive. =[
> 
> Regards to it happening to her other knee, I have read about that elsewhere too. Whether her problem was caused by her bone structure I don't really know. We got her when she was 5-6 years she was a rescue dog, before this I don't know if she had any other knee problems, but whilst she's been with us she hasn't, so im guessing her bone structure is ok and it just happened because she twisted her leg. She was out playing with her friends in the park, she went down a hill and came back up limping so im guessing she did just twist it.
> 
> I feel bad and selfish for adopting her now, if someone else with more money would have she'd have a better quality life. She's had nothing but problems the poor thing


Stop beating yourself up about this, if she was with someone else they may have her pts if they couldn't afford an op! She is with you & you are doing your best for her 

Toby is also a rescuce & in the first 2yrs he did have the odd day or two whne he seemed stiff, not in pain but limped occassionally. The vet said the only way to really determine anything would be an xray but these periods were so infrequent that they did not feel this was necessary.

It was one day when we were out that I threw his ball for him & he ran down the river bank & slipped. He literally screamed in pain & I knew instantly what he had done  I felt so bad about it & blamed myself but really it was simply an accident.

When he had his xray the surgeon could also see that he has hip dysplasia & had arthritis around the knee area so it was probably an existing problem.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> Stop beating yourself up about this, if she was with someone else they may have her pts if they couldn't afford an op! She is with you & you are doing your best for her
> 
> Toby is also a rescuce & in the first 2yrs he did have the odd day or two whne he seemed stiff, not in pain but limped occassionally. The vet said the only way to really determine anything would be an xray but these periods were so infrequent that they did not feel this was necessary.
> 
> ...


Poor Toby! Why do they have to go through so much? Your situation with Toby sounds similar to Cassie last year. My mum was in the park with her and the floor was a bit wet because it had been raining the day before. She threw the ball and Cassie went running after it as she usually does. She yelped and stopped in ger track, turned around and limped back to my mum. The blood was pumping out of her leg. Mum had to encourage her to walk for 20 minutes to get out of the park where she could call for help. I dread to think how much blood she lost that day, im surprised she survived! At the vets they found she cut through an artery and nerves in her leg and it looked like she might have needed it amputating, but she made a very good recovery.

It was caused by a smashed glass bottle on the path, probably not helped by the council cutting back on cleaning the parks, we wrote to tell them and to ask id they would patrol the parks more often as they were getting a mess but they didn't really bother. We always pick up litter and dispose of glass when we come a cross it but a lot of people don't bother and just walk past.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> It's good to hear alfies recovered well. How long has it been since the operation?
> 
> I've been trying to read up on the actual operations, I kind of know what the cheaper one consists of. However im not entirely sure about TPLO. I gather they manipulate the tip of the bone so its no longer on a slope, but I don't see how that replaces the ligament? Do they not need a ligament if the bone is flat?
> *No ligament required with this repair
> ...


I think you are mixing it up with the TightRope Procedure.
TPLO and TTA as far as I'm aware can be carried out on any dog.

My concern about the TPLO was that once done, if it went wrong, there was almost certainly nothing they could do, whereas if Ex Cap went wrong I would still have the option of TPLO


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> I feel bad and selfish for adopting her now, if someone else with more money would have she'd have a better quality life. She's had nothing but problems the poor thing


Don't be silly.

I could have gone for TPLO but chose not. You've just got to weigh everything up and do what you think is right.

Recovery will take longer and needs to be handle extremely carefully. If by having the cheaper Operation you can afford a few hydrotherapy sessions in the recovery time, you may feel pleased you did take this route


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> Don't be silly.
> 
> I could have gone for TPLO but chose not. You've just got to weigh everything up and do what you think is right.
> 
> Recovery will take longer and needs to be handle extremely carefully. If by having the cheaper Operation you can afford a few hydrotherapy sessions in the recovery time, you may feel pleased you did take this route


Thanks for the support Rona,

It's strange how these things happen- I received a flyer through the door a few weeks ago offering £30 off a session of hydrotherapy and it's not too far away. She's petrified of water though! I'd have to look into it but I have heard it mentioned a few times when researching into the operations, and know that it's supposed to be excellent for them!

I just hope the operation is enough for her, I trust my vet so hopefully he'll do a good job. And yes my concern about the TPLO is the fact it's irreversible or can't be proceded with more surgery etc. With the cheaper option if it doesn't work she could always have TPLO (if the funds ever allowed it).


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

The actual operation is almost as successful as TPLO, they rarely go wrong, it's the recovery and small limitations that are different, but at 8+ they are easily handled because the dog is naturally slowing anyway (or they should be  )

When Alfie was having his operation there was a member that had TPLO on his dog, it went wrong, they tried to put it right but the dog could not be kept still enough after 6 months in a cage and ruined the repair which was very delicate.
Last I heard from them there was nothing more they could do and it had affected the whole limb 
The member left at that point


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sorry.
Don't mean to worry anyone.

This is an extremely rare occurrence


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

My (sadly since departed) rottie x tore both ACL- I think there was about six months between the two of them. 
I can't remember exactly his age but he was about 9/10 when this happened. He had the cheaper surgeries on both of his legs- recovery is a pain in the arse but once he was recovered he was fine. No problems. He died at 14 from cancer but he wasn't even arthritic at this stage and the legs caused him no bother*. 

*- The only caveat I'd add to this is that I did have to be more careful with him. No wild jumping or rough play with heavy dogs.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> The actual operation is almost as successful as TPLO, they rarely go wrong, it's the recovery and small limitations that are different, but at 8+ they are easily handled because the dog is naturally slowing anyway (or they should be  )
> 
> When Alfie was having his operation there was a member that had TPLO on his dog, it went wrong, they tried to put it right but the dog could not be kept still enough after 6 months in a cage and ruined the repair which was very delicate.
> Last I heard from them there was nothing more they could do and it had affected the whole limb
> The member left at that point


Oh god that's horrible! I wonder how things went for them in the end? I hope they're ok 

I'm a little bit worried about the recovery. It's not so bad at the moment, today she's been very slow and lethargic, she's currently sleeping on the sofa, which I don't think is a great idea because it means she's climbing up onto it, but it's where she always sleeps, she has a bed on the floor but she doesn't like it, and she isn't great with crates. I guess I'll have to find a solution for that. But after the OP if she gets more confident with her leg I can imagine she'll get back to her usual semi-hyper self.

The vet's told us she can have 3 10minute walks per day until she has the OP, but I don't even feel comfortable doing that at the moment, so she had a 10min walk outside earlier for a wee but I think she's best with just the 1. She's supposed to be on steroids for allergies which makes her a bit more hyper than usual but she's had to come off them due to the meds she's on for her leg, she's still on antihistamines though which calm her down a bit, so maybe she'll be ok. She gets excited when she sees family members because she's just with me most of the time, don't know how I'm going to be able to control that!


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

jenniferx said:


> My (sadly since departed) rottie x tore both ACL- I think there was about six months between the two of them.
> I can't remember exactly his age but he was about 9/10 when this happened. He had the cheaper surgeries on both of his legs- recovery is a pain in the arse but once he was recovered he was fine. No problems. He died at 14 from cancer but he wasn't even arthritic at this stage and the legs caused him no bother*.
> 
> *- The only caveat I'd add to this is that I did have to be more careful with him. No wild jumping or rough play with heavy dogs.


What a ripe age! I've never came across a Rottie past 12! Do you know how much he weighed? I know males are usually bigger than females, and cassie's an extremely lightweight for her breed! Did he have the op on one leg, then once recovered the other leg went? or did you leave it and have the ops done at the same time? It must have been devastating to find that it happened to his other leg  Did you keep him in a crate?

She plays with 2 boxers, which are as nutty as herself, and another dog who's completely crazy. So maybe she'll have to calm it down a bit, but it looks like she won't be seeing her friends for some time now


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Block off the settee, get ramps on any steps, make a makeshift sling to help her into the garden if needed, sort out some way of getting her in and out of the car when she isn't even walking, and if possible, get one room as a confinement room with well placed baby gates. 

Have a crate in reserve incase it's needed.

You are then ready to proceed


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> Block off the settee, get ramps on any steps, make a makeshift sling to help her into the garden if needed, sort out some way of getting her in and out of the car when she isn't even walking, and if possible, get one room as a confinement room with well placed baby gates.
> 
> Have a crate in reserve incase it's needed.
> 
> You are then ready to proceed


Oh god! This isn't going to end very well, I can see it now!


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

ryanr said:


> What a ripe age! I've never came across a Rottie past 12! Do you know how much he weighed? I know males are usually bigger than females, and cassie's an extremely lightweight for her breed! Did he have the op on one leg, then once recovered the other leg went? or did you leave it and have the ops done at the same time? It must have been devastating to find that it happened to his other leg  Did you keep him in a crate?
> 
> She plays with 2 boxers, which are as nutty as herself, and another dog who's completely crazy. So maybe she'll have to calm it down a bit, but it looks like she won't be seeing her friends for some time now


Yep Boo did really well considering. Even though he was old his cause of death was definitely cancer and not old age. He was a cross but 90% rottie in appearance, build etc...

He had the operation on one leg within a week of it happening and then about six months after that, just when he was more or less recovered, he did it in the other one. We were on a walk and I knew as soon as I saw him that it had happened again.  Had to get a car brought to come and collect him. He then had the second op about two days later.

The operations themselves were fine- and actually he was walking MUCH better even with the leg all bandaged up from as soon as he woke up from surgery compared to how he was walking with the injury. Nope, we didn't use crates. Our dogs were not allowed on furniture or up stairs so in that area it was fine. The hardest thing was keeping him settled when the other dogs were taken out. I was always on hand to separate, restrain and cover his eyes if needs be! But like I said, he did well and once recovered he was ostensibly a normal dog again, albeit one that you had to watch a bit more closely than you used to!

I'm sorry that you and your dog are having to go through it but with a bit of a luck she'll be like Boo and come out the other end to have many more happy years with you!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> Oh god! This isn't going to end very well, I can see it now!


Have you had a look through my thread?

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/93861-cruciate-operation-diary.html

It's not just my experience but others too 

Oh! I forgot the head collar for when you are eventually allowed out of the garden. They go a bit crazy at that point


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

It's not all doom and gloom, I managed to keep Indie quiet when she was a youngster, 18 months old and very fit. She was crated almost solid for six weeks, and then she had to be kept on lead for six months with limited lead walking. It is worth taking the time with the recuperation period, because any operation is more likely to succeed if the recovery allows the dog to heal without doing any more damage, obvious, but a lot of folks take it too quickly with their dog. You need to make up lots off games to keep them entertained and inactive! Kong toys come into their own at this particular point in time, Indie got most of her meals stuffed into one, as it was difficult to keep a balance between keeping her occupied, and not putting weight on due to inactivity.


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## donnas1977 (Feb 7, 2010)

My dog is going in for tests for this today as they suspect this may be the case with my spaniel. Struggling to put any weight on her back end and seems in major pain at moment. Am worried sick right now. We will find results later today


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It's not all doom and gloom, I managed to keep Indie quiet when she was a youngster, 18 months old and very fit. She was crated almost solid for six weeks, and then she had to be kept on lead for six months with limited lead walking. It is worth taking the time with the recuperation period, because any operation is more likely to succeed if the recovery allows the dog to heal without doing any more damage, obvious, but a lot of folks take it too quickly with their dog. You need to make up lots off games to keep them entertained and inactive! Kong toys come into their own at this particular point in time, Indie got most of her meals stuffed into one, as it was difficult to keep a balance between keeping her occupied, and not putting weight on due to inactivity.


Completely agree!! It wasn't as bad as I thought with Toby either. Although he had never been crate trained he was fine with this - he copes well with most things though.

I made sure his meals were split up & put in to kongs which he had several times a day, raw hide chews, bones, anything that would help relieve his boredom.

We also did some clicker training; touching objects, looking left & right, bark on command, etc. We also played a game where he had to find the bit of sausage under a cup when they had been mixed up - he loved that 

We took the recovery period very slowly as I was so worried about him but he's doing so well now. He is back to having the odd chase of his ball when we are out now & is offlead alot now but I am careful where this is. I only let him chase his ball if the gorund is flat & even, he is offlead in areas where there is no risk of him running up & down river banks or chasing rabbits, etc. I was lucky in the summer that we had a lovely resevoir that he could swim in in addition to his hydro sessions & I'm sure that helped alot.

We also now do alot more scent work so his games don't just involve running around, he absolutely loves this & so do I. We have attended a couple of workshops & will be searching old steam trains in Decemeber for our next session.

IMO it's just about looking at oppotunities where you can make things more enjoyable, & how inventive you can be with games & keeping them occupied a bit more.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Thanks for all of the replies,

Sorry I haven't posted for a week it's been really busy. The vets have put her on metcam, but they won't be doing the operation until 24th November. I did try asking why not sooner but the receptionist didn't know fully but said it might be because the vet wants her on the medication for a few weeks first?

Anyway, she's started worrying me a bit because now she's started putting her leg down, and putting full weight on the leg when she walks in the house. When she walks outside she tends to lift her leg in the air and just use the other 3 legs, probably because she's walking a tiny bit faster. She's only getting 10 min walks down the road now advised by the vets and I obviously don't let her off lead.

The other bad problem is her "allergies" have come on quite bad, constantly itching and biting herself, she even scratches herself with her bad leg, this is since she's came off the steroids, even though she was due to come off steroids at a similar time as her leg going bad  I'm going to change her food for the last time as I don't really know what else to do.

She doesn't rest at all unless she's on the sofa, we bought a huge dog bed for her a few weeks ago which is on the floor, but she rarely uses it, and if she's not on the sofa she'll pace about and become really restless grr.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

I've also enquired about hydrotherapy, and it happens that one of my neighbours friends runs a hydrotherapy place not far away, it's only £10 per hour session too, the first week they do it and then following weeks you get in with them and do it. Seems quite interesting, so after the operation when she's allowed to start exercising I'll definitely be going there. 

I am really, really worried about keeping her inactive, I just really don't want to crate her because I know she loves being around us so much, even with playing games and stimulating her mind I'm still not sure it's the right thing to do. But knowing what she's like, if she isn't somehow restrained, she'll be dashing about, running to the door to greet the post man, following me to the kitchen when I get something to eat, getting excited when family and friends come round etc. Don't really know what to do!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> Thanks for all of the replies,
> 
> Sorry I haven't posted for a week it's been really busy. The vets have put her on metcam, but they won't be doing the operation until 24th November. I did try asking why not sooner but the receptionist didn't know fully but said it might be because the vet wants her on the medication for a few weeks first?
> 
> ...


She may just have a partial tear which in time may hurt slightly less. 
I wouldn't be happy about the operation being left that long  There could be more and more damage being done to the joint every day!! Plus she's going to have enough time incarcerated without those extra weeks 
Can't help with the allergies I'm afraid


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> She may just have a partial tear which in time may hurt slightly less.
> I wouldn't be happy about the operation being left that long  There could be more and more damage being done to the joint every day!! Plus she's going to have enough time incarcerated without those extra weeks
> Can't help with the allergies I'm afraid


Sorry I've not had much time to come online lately! Realised I made a typo on the date of the operation, it's the 4th Nov, which she's having it (I think! need to double check) not the 24th.

Cassie was prescribed Metacam for her leg. The past few days she's had Diarrhoea and she's been vomiting. We took her to the vets yesterday because she started bringing up blood. The vet examined her, and said it could either be a bug from food, or possibly the metacam (I read the leaflet and she has all the side effect symptoms of metacam). He gave her antibiotics (as usual, sigh) and took her off metcam, if it doesn't clear up within the next few days then I have to go back. She doesn't seem to be in any pain and her mood hasn't changed but she still has diarrhoea. I'm concerned about giving her Metacam or other NSAID's again, she's off it at the moment, but I could do with finding a natural replacement which will help with the pain and inflammation.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Not natural but have a chat with your vet about Cartrophen injections as an anti inflammatory and Tramadol as pain relief 

FORTE - Cartrophen home page

Is Tramadol Used Also For Dogs?


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

I need some advice,
She was due at the vets this morning for her cruciate operation, but the past week she's been limping a bit on her left (better) leg too. We took her and the vet did thorough examination of her legs and says her left knee is fine, but he thinks she has arthiritis in it. He said we need to think about whether she should have the operation or conservative management due to her being 9. If she had the operation she'd still have lameness due to the arthiritis because shed be using her left leg more. If she managed with conservative treatment she'd she'd still have lameness. He seemed to be saying if it was his dog he wouldn't have the operation, but said if we want it he's happy to do it. He said we should come away and think about it.

No idea what to do now...


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

How is she managing on her left leg?

What happens if the left goes too? 

Surely as she gets older the more likely the joint is to go completely?

The arthritis pain can be managed, but what happens if the right leg goes completely?

Has your dog got other health issues and how far before this did she walk?

My boy has had arthritis in his operated knee joint for 3 years now and at almost 11 is still walking 5-6 miles a day.

My boy had a partial tear which I managed for 18 months, but when it went it *had* to be operated on.

With managed means on lead walks, no jumping, no running, no steps and definitely no playing with other dogs.

Only you can decide, but from my experience with mine, I'd still go ahead.

Have another chat with your vet.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> How is she managing on her left leg?
> 
> What happens if the left goes too?
> 
> ...


He mentioned like you and others on the forum have said about there being more of a chance of her left one going to. He said it's not guaranteed but there is a high chance. She's carrying her bad leg when she can as it's probably easier for her, but she will put weight on it if she needs to. He rated it a 5 whatever that means. He said if she had the operation it would be a few months of restricted walking, which would be the same as just managing it. But she'd be on pain killers, antibiotics, anti inflamatories etc so asked us to think about whether its worth putting her through it. He seemed impartial and didn't rule out operations or anything just said he thinks we should think about it.

Her only other health conditions are itching (supposedly rallergies) but she isn't too bad at the moment it doesn't seem to be affecting her that much.

She used to have an hour walk in the afternoon and a shorter one in the morning. At weekends sometime 1-2 hour walks but she'd get a little bit achey afterwards. She would have easily gone 3+ hours without hesitation. At the moment she's just having 10min walks though, with no playing with other dogs and no running.

I think I still want her to have the OP but I don't know if that's the right thing to do or not =/


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Firstly can I just say that your dog is *gorgeous*.

Secondly: I'm certainly no expert but I think for me it would come down to how much pain your dog is in, if any. If there is only slight pain, then I'd be less likely to go ahead with an op.

However, if there is considerable pain, and if the restrictions on exercise are affecting her quality of life, then I think I'd consider the op. I agree with RONA - you perhaps need another discussion with your vet. He should be happy to discuss it with you as much as you need 

Good luck with it all


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Firstly can I just say that your dog is *gorgeous*.
> 
> Secondly: I'm certainly no expert but I think for me it would come down to how much pain your dog is in, if any. If there is only slight pain, then I'd be less likely to go ahead with an op.
> 
> ...


Hiya,

Thank you for your comments!

I don't think she's in pain as it stands, but if she wasn't then I guess she wouldn't be limping? So I'm not really sure. I feel like it might be best waiting and seeing if it gets any better, as he said it should and that it'll go more firm allowing her to put more weight on it. But I dont know if leaving her as is would be making things worse. He was willing to do the operation there and then as she was booked in for it, but he seemed to want me to think about it more before making a decision. Which makes me feel like the operation is the wrong decision, if you get me? Gah, I don't know...

I'm buying her glucosamine, chondroitin and msm tablets. And I asked him what he thought about devils claw as an alternative to metacam for anti-inflamatory, he said he doesn't have anything against it and he has a few patients who use it, but he doesn't have much experience so said we could try it and see if it helps. She already has salmon oil, and turmeric and I was thinking about getting vitamin c in its ester form for after the operation to help promote healing. Hopefully these should help whether she has the op or not.

I just hope I make the right decision. As he said, no matter what decision I make i'll always wonder if it was the right one.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> He mentioned like you and others on the forum have said about there being more of a chance of her left one going to. He said it's not guaranteed but there is a high chance. She's carrying her bad leg when she can as it's probably easier for her, but she will put weight on it if she needs to. He rated it a 5 whatever that means. He said if she had the operation it would be a few months of restricted walking, which would be the same as just managing it. But she'd be on pain killers, antibiotics, anti inflamatories etc so asked us to think about whether its worth putting her through it. He seemed impartial and didn't rule out operations or anything just said he thinks we should think about it.
> 
> Her only other health conditions are itching (supposedly rallergies) but she isn't too bad at the moment it doesn't seem to be affecting her that much.
> 
> ...


Really really feel for you.
If i had had hindsight though, I would have had Alfies operation done 18 months earlier when the vet told me I had a choice.

Your dog is 9, as she gets older the arthritis and muscle weakness will have progressed. If the cruciate goes completely then, the recuperation might be one hell of a struggle 

Good luck with your decision.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

ryanr said:


> Hiya,
> 
> Thank you for your comments!
> 
> ...


You're clearly a really caring owner; all you can do is what you feel is best at any given time. I know it's really hard sometimes 

Have you tried Yumega tablets?

I'm ordering Devil's Claw for my own dog so I'll be interested to know if you find it helpful


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

My dog had a TTA after rupturing his cruciate during an accident 
http://www.torvet.co.uk/publications/owner-resources/client-tta-handout.pdf

it is more expensive at £3,600 but it as a 95% success rate, he had his 2 years ago and even though he is nearly 8yrs he runs around with younger dogs - as his isnt linked to disease but accident he doesnt need his other doing


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

She's gone in for her Op this morning, he's going to x-ray both legs to check if there's anything wrong with her left lame leg too. Got to pick her up at 5:30pm


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ryanr said:


> She's gone in for her Op this morning, he's going to x-ray both legs to check if there's anything wrong with her left lame leg too. Got to pick her up at 5:30pm


Good luck, hope it all goes well!

My Toby had another TPLO op just over a week ago on his 'good' leg. That's his second this year, just after me posting about how well he'd been doing as well 

It's amazing just how quickly he seems to have recovered so am really hoping your girl does well. They seem to be a bit sorry for themselves for a few days but then remarkably perk up.

Let us know how you get on


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Best of luck for the surgery today- hopefully you will see big improvements quickly. Bruno was walking better more or less immediately after his, even with it in the cast thing they wrap around.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> She's gone in for her Op this morning, he's going to x-ray both legs to check if there's anything wrong with her left lame leg too. Got to pick her up at 5:30pm


I won't hide the fact that I'm so relieved you are going ahead with this.

Hope it all goes well.

The hard work starts now and will last a few weeks. Best of luck. We are here for moral support


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Just want to add my best wishes for the op today ..... I know several dogs who've had to have this done and all have recovered really well.

Bet you can't wait to have her home as it's awful when they're away at the vets.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Thanks for all the nice messages! 
I've been worried all day, the house has been really quiet. Can't wait to see her!


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

She's back, had to carry her out of the vets to the car, then from the car to her bed, as she won't move at all, probably because of the anaesthetic/sedative. Going to sleep downstairs on sofa tonight so can keep an eye on her.

Good news is, he did lots of x-rays and said her hip/knee/hocks are all excellent. She has a tiny bit of arthritis creeping in but for her age she's excellent.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Brilliant.
I hope you don't have the trouble I had for the first few days.

I stayed with mine for weeks


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Am glad she's back home with you, good news about her x-rays then 

The initial few days are usually the worst for their pain, well, it was with Toby. He whimpered quite a bit & we ended up getting some Tramadol for him. 

Luckily it was very short lived & he was full of beans within days - too much tbh! It's been 10days since his second op & I can't believe how lively he is. If it wasn't for his shaved leg then you wouldn't know he had undergone an op ...... he's driving me mad now


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Just popped online really quickly to see if you'd updated  - so glad she's home & great news about the xrays!



ryanr said:


> Going to sleep downstairs on sofa tonight so can keep an eye on her.


 Think we've all been there are some point ..... hope you get some sleep and the next few days are OK for her.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

When in the vets she tried walking a little bit with encouragement but her 'bad' leg was completely up in the air, which is what I would have expected. But I've read people saying they put weight on their leg coming out of the vets? Kinda worried me a bit...

She has antibiotics, tramadol for pain, and he's asked me to try her on metacam again (sigh).

Just gave her a bit of salmon oil in a syringe and she perked up a bit 

Thanks for all the messages again


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I think they are all different. Toby was putting his leg down alot quicker this time round, the next day in fact. A couple of days after the op &he was putting it down all the time & even stood on his bad leg when he went for a wee.

Despite the surgeon warning us that his recovery this time round could be slower it actually appears to be quicker for some reason.

Just see how she goes & give them a ring if you are concerned at any point.

One thing, she may be constipated after the op. After Toby's first op I became obsessed that he hadn't had a poo  I was assured that this was normal but I was still worrying .... I worried alot for quite a while but he actually handled the whole recovery period really well


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> When in the vets she tried walking a little bit with encouragement but her 'bad' leg was completely up in the air, which is what I would have expected. But I've read people saying they put weight on their leg coming out of the vets? Kinda worried me a bit...
> 
> She has antibiotics, tramadol for pain, and he's asked me to try her on metacam again (sigh).
> 
> ...


Those that have TPLO and TTA seem to have a slightly easier time.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Ah, thought it might have been the TPLO dogs who recovered quicker. I'll just wait and see how she goes. Hopefully she does put weight on it at some point. The vet said some dogs, although it's rare, won't ever end up putting weight on the operated leg I just hope she isn't in that small percent.

I thought she might have needed to go to the toilet, not sure if she'll be able to get up if she needs to, so going to get a waterproof duvet protector tomorrow and make her a new bed using it just in case she wees. 

She just had a tiny bit of chicken, so she's eating and drinking now.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Took Alfie about 3 days to poo and put his foot down at all I think.
He held his pee for sometime too

Don't forget the diary 
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/93861-cruciate-operation-diary.html


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> Took Alfie about 3 days to poo and put his foot down at all I think.
> He held his pee for sometime too
> 
> Don't forget the diary
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/93861-cruciate-operation-diary.html


Thanks Rona,
I've already read most of your thread, but I'm reading it again. You see it in a different light when it's actually happening. Everything up to now seems to be similar to your experience.

She was sleeping on her bad leg last night which I was a bit concerned about, as now and then it started seeping blood but he did warn me about that. She has a bit of trouble turning over, but she managed to do so about 4 times on her own, each time waking me up. This morning she seemed uncomfortable and couldn't reposition herself so I helped flip her over. She hasn't been out yet nor attempted walking but I won't rush her. She had pain killers and antibiotics at 8am, along with a bit of chicken so hopefully that will help with any pain she has. Going to clean up her bloody leg in a bit because she can smell it (and so can I!) she really wants to clean it herself.

As for myself, I hardly got any sleep due to her tossing, turning and snoring, I have to stay up with her today as well, oh the fun!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Poor love.

I don't think you will be leaving her for a few days.

I'll be happy if my diary will help you not to worry as much as I did


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## Rottiemama (Nov 10, 2012)

The poor angel. My best wishes and thoughts go out to both of you.

The rehab and recovery is such a stressful and traumatic time.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Awwwwww wee sweetheart - ohhhh, please give her a big cuddle from me.

It's always the eyes that say it all....


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

You are not offering your dog second best, you are looking at all the options and seeking advice from people who have experience with dogs with this type of problem.

There are times when expensive options are not necessarily the best option.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Hoping things are going well


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Just a 'small' update about Cass,

Sunday 18th.
She went outside in the garden, it was nice to see her walking, although she was quite unsteady on her feet and still carrying her leg. She didn't wee or poo, she just stood outside, then she wanted to come back in. She was perking up a bit more too, didn't have that unhappy/sulky look on her face.

Monday 19th.
She was pretty much back to her usual self, much more energy, she even tried getting up onto the sofa when I left the room for a moment, I helped her get back down and she didn't put any weight on her leg at all so I guess that's good, as I didn't want her damaging it. I'll have to sort something out for the sofa, I've been putting dining chairs on it when I'm out of the room to stop her going on it, but it's a PITA having to do it every time I leave.

She was booked into the vets last night. She got really excited as she was going out of the front door instead of the back (usually means walkies!), so she tried running about in the hall a bit, it's the first time I've seen her put any weight on the leg. I'll have to try and manage/limit her mad 10 second energy boosts. 
The vets said she's doing extremely well. No infections and normal temperature, it's not that painful as she lets you touch it. It does have quite a bit of fluid build up (forgot what she called it) around the knee which looks like a balloon, but because it's not hot or red it's ok. Vet said the fluid will probably go down her leg building up in the hocks due to gravity. She wasn't concerned about her not having a poo, because her stomach wasn't uncomfortable, vet said she'll probably have one tomorrow.

Tuesday 20th.
Last night I got away with sleeping upstairs as I thought she was coping much better. Woke up this morning to her having weed in the living room, so maybe it wasn't a good decision staying upstairs, but I've been getting hardly any sleep so I needed to.
Still waiting for her to have a poo! Maybe today she will!


So in general, she's been great. I think she's missing playing with her friends though


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Am glad she is doing ok, I was wondering how she was last night 

I've finally been persuaded by my OH to sleep upstairs now (I was sleeping on the sofa to keep Toby company as he is crated in the living room), I felt terrible leaving him but he's fine so don;t worry too much, I'm sure they cope alot better than we do 

Toby was also desprately trying to get up on to the sofa (his fave spot) he can't understand why he's not allowed.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Aw, cassie's the same, she stands in front of me when I'm sat on the sofa, walking up and down expecting me to move up and let her on. I made her a new bed out of a folded duvet and I made a cover to put it in. But I think she likes it on the sofa because it's warmer and higher up.

The sofa's a 2.5 seater so it's not ideal for sleeping on, I always end up with achy legs, so it was nice to actually sleep in a bed last night lol I was contemplating getting a crate, but she's been really good up to now, most of the day she just sleeps on her bed. She'll only really do things I don't want her to if she's leaving the front door. I just hope she doesn't get too confident too quickly!

Here's a photo of her leg, you can see the swelling to the bottom left of her cut, it feels quite bouncy and fluidy. One thing the vet didn't explain is how the fluid finally dissapears. Not sure if it's supposed to leak out, or if the body kinda consumes it :/


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Am not sure, Toby's leg didn't really swell up, just looked very bruised. Have they advised you to try gently massaging the area? That's what my notes form the surgeon suggested but obviously check with your first.

Toby is crated as he will be jumping around on the sofa & play fighting with roxy our other dog given half a chance  He's allowed out in the evenings when we can keep an eye on him but apart from that he has to be crated & our neighbour pops in a couple of time during the day to take him out for a wee.

Our sofa sounds similar, it was lovely to bed back in my own bed tbh. Toby is fine on his own, i think I worry too much at times when he seems more than capable of coping with things 

We do have to watch toby like a hawk though, or he'll be up on the sofa , shooting through the dog flap, or mucking about with Roxy. It's lovely seeing him back to his old self but alot more work!


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> Am not sure, Toby's leg didn't really swell up, just looked very bruised. Have they advised you to try gently massaging the area? That's what my notes form the surgeon suggested but obviously check with your first.
> 
> Toby is crated as he will be jumping around on the sofa & play fighting with roxy our other dog given half a chance  He's allowed out in the evenings when we can keep an eye on him but apart from that he has to be crated & our neighbour pops in a couple of time during the day to take him out for a wee.
> 
> ...


The vets didn't advise anything regards the fluid build up, they just said it'll go down over time and it's completely normal after that kind of op. Toby might not have had any swelling/fluid build up due to having TPLO, I'm guessing it's less traumatic for the skin/muscle? I'm not too worried about it really, just curious as to where it dissapears to lol

I can imagine it being difficult having two dogs whilst ones poorly as they'd always want to play. I think cassie's getting bored being lay on her bed all day, I don't really know what to do because any stimulating activities/games and she'd probably get too excited, especially if it involved food! I've just been giving her lots of attention so she doesn't get lonely, but feel like it's not enough.


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## Rottiemama (Nov 10, 2012)

I am very happy to hear it's going a 'little' better 

I think every little improvement should be celebrated for what it is...progress. 

Warmest wishes to the both of you!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Good news 
I think the fluid just get absorbed back into the body. Alfie had it in the hock area


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

She didn't have a poo yesterday, which I've started getting quite concerned about. It's been 5 days now, and she's been eating about 500g of food each day, that's a lot of food stuck in her! If she doesn't do one by tonight I'll call the vets tomorrow. Does anyone know anything I can give her to help her go? I've heard tinned pumpkin helps, but she's not wanting to drink water that much, although she does a bit, so a bit worried that it could make things worse with it being high in fiber.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

I'd be tempted to give your vet a ring re the constipation as 5 days is getting on a bit ...... even after surgery *but* don't panic as one of my colleagues' dogs had surgery and didn't go for 8 days!


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

ryanr said:


> Here's a photo of her leg, you can see the swelling to the bottom left of her cut, it feels quite bouncy and fluidy. One thing the vet didn't explain is how the fluid finally dissapears. Not sure if it's supposed to leak out, or if the body kinda consumes it :/[/IMG]


I had huge amounts of fluid build up in my foot after surgery last year - it just kind of disappears over time, so the body must just reabsorb it. I was advised to massage it to help move it but this may have been because it was a foot and nothing further down to help with this IYKWIM!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I thought Pumpkin helped with the squits? 

My vet just said give a little oil, vegetable oil is fine.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Toby was about 5 or 6 days (first op) before he went for a poo, only a couple of days this time. Honestly, I was obsessed with this the first time as he was always so regular before 

To get him 'going' again we gave him raw liver for his breakfast which seemed to do the trick!


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## Rottiemama (Nov 10, 2012)

Canned pumpkin is recommended by many vets, breeders and others in the know and the good news is, dogs love it (or mine always have )
I also know that not drinking enough water can prolong the constipation, as does the fact that she is not getting much exercise/movement etc due to her post op condition.
I would call the vet if I were you (for your own sanity and the patient's), as I do know in extreme cases of constipation (post-op) they can (and often do) take other courses of action.
Gosh, these post-op periods really are trying and testing times.
I really feel for the both of you.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Thanks for all of the replies! Couldn't find any pumpkin, tinned or fresh so picked up a butternut squash which supposedly does the same thing, and I'm in the process of boiling it now. I've been giving her salmon oil each day so I could always up that a little bit. And due to her not really drinking that much on her own i've been giving her water in a syringe which she drinks fine. I might give her some black decaf tea which will probably make her drink more, I'm guessing this is ok for them? When we visited the vet on Monday she said she should have a poo within 48 hours, which would be this evening, so shall call them in the morning if she still hasn't been. Really hoping she goes tonight though!

As for pumpkin for the squits, I've read it helps with both, as it firms up runny poo, yet softens hard poo to make it a good consistency.

update-
Turns out she doesn't like decaf black tea, but she'll drink 3 tablespoons of salmon oil lol


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

For the odd occasional use I add a little bovril/Marmite to water 

I wouldn't give tonight though or you will be out in the garden all night while she wees


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> For the odd occasional use I add a little bovril/Marmite to water
> 
> I wouldn't give tonight though or you will be out in the garden all night while she wees


Unfortunately I don't have any bovril or marmite, does this usually help with constipation? 
I've just given her some pureed butternut squash, not really sure how much she should have so gave her 3 heaped tablespoons and mixed it with some warm water, I really, really, hope it makes her go! Might try give her a tummy massage too tonight.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> Unfortunately I don't have any bovril or marmite, does this usually help with constipation?
> I've just given her some pureed butternut squash, not really sure how much she should have so gave her 3 heaped tablespoons and mixed it with some warm water, I really, really, hope it makes her go! Might try give her a tummy massage too tonight.


No, just fluid intake.

Fingers crossed The butternut works but not too well


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> No, just fluid intake.
> 
> Fingers crossed The butternut works but not too well


Lol, I think I'd rather her have short term diarrhea from the pumpkin rather than constipation, at least then I wouldn't be worried about her not going!

I'll remember the bovril/marmite tip for future, thanks  I think at the moment she just doesn't want to get up to get her water, as she's willingly taking it from a syringe, she's thankfully not refusing to drink.

I've read that Tramadol can cause constipation in humans, so maybe it's contributing to it. After-all she's had an operation, she had white rice with chicken for the first 2 days which could cause constipation, she's not been drinking as much as usual and she's not walking much, so I guess it's only natural that she'd be constipated.

I'll see how she goes tonight and report back in the morning!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

You aren't taking the bowl over to her? 

Good luck


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> You aren't taking the bowl over to her?
> 
> Good luck


Yeah but she won't drink it out of the bowl, yet she'll drink it out of the syringe.. think she's just being lazy lol


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

She's done a poo!!


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

ryanr said:


> She's done a poo!!


Yay!!!!!!! 

Aren't us pet owners sad to be so obsessed with our animal's poo's!:wink:

I do think she's maybe taking the mickey a bit if she'll drink from the syringe but not the water bowl .... little monkey


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ryanr said:


> She's done a poo!!


Am so glad to hear!! I'll bet you are so are so relieved - I know I was when Toby eventually went


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

The silly thing is, we all know just how happy you are


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

haha, I was so relieved! She settled right down afterwards too, I could tell something was building up because she kept whimpering and growling, and she couldn't rest. Not to sound disgusting, but it was the colour of the butternut squash, I can't believe it went through her so quickly, it only took about 3 hours! I massaged her tummy, kinda pushing on the belly towards her back end, to stimulate it a bit which might have helped. I'll definitely know what to do in the future now. Butternut squash, oil, water, massage. =]

She's been fine this morning, she's putting weight on her leg quite a bit now, standing/walking on her tip toes though, not flat footed.

One thing I'm a bit concerned about after reading Ronas diary, is my vet advised to start slowly taking her for short walks after 2 weeks of the op, whereas everything else I've read, including your diary says 4-6 weeks. I want to get her booked into hydrotherapy at some point, but not sure when this should be, and should it be before or after starting to walk her


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ryanr said:


> haha, I was so relieved! She settled right down afterwards too, I could tell something was building up because she kept whimpering and growling, and she couldn't rest. Not to sound disgusting, but it was the colour of the butternut squash, I can't believe it went through her so quickly, it only took about 3 hours! I massaged her tummy, kinda pushing on the belly towards her back end, to stimulate it a bit which might have helped. I'll definitely know what to do in the future now. Butternut squash, oil, water, massage. =]
> 
> She's been fine this morning, she's putting weight on her leg quite a bit now, standing/walking on her tip toes though, not flat footed.
> 
> One thing I'm a bit concerned about after reading Ronas diary, is my vet advised to start slowly taking her for short walks after 2 weeks of the op, whereas everything else I've read, including your diary says 4-6 weeks. I want to get her booked into hydrotherapy at some point, but not sure when this should be, and should it be before or after starting to walk her


I would ask your vet to be sure. The notes from the othapaedic surgeon I have state toilet breaks only (on lead) for no more than 5 mins for the intial 6wks then very short leads walks 5-10mins gradually increasing for a further 8-10wks - this period can start to include hydrotherapy & physio if required.

Last time Toby started his hydro (I think) on week 8 or 9 - it took a bit of time to get the referrel from the vets but the intial few sessions were very short. It took a while before he built up the time & they also added the jets to increase the resistance, it really did make a difference to buidling muscle on his affected leg.

Toby is also crated in the day to stop him wandering around but let out in the evening provided he stays on his bed & isn't mucking about. He was trying to goad Roxy in to playing with himyesterday evening so had to return to his 'prison' which he didn't like but I can't risk him messing his leg up. He seems so lively but I still realise that it's important he rests in this initial period.

I also bought a canine massage dvd & have been giving him a massge every day to ensure he doesn't get too stiff, he LOVES these!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

How's it going?


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

It's been 10 days so she'll be having her stitches out tomorrow evening, I'll check with him then, but even if he says she's fine to start going on small walks, I'll still leave it another couple of weeks, as I wouldn't like to push it. She's actually started to weight bare with her foot 80% flat on the floor now, but she won't keep her weight on it for long so she still has a limp. She still carries it when she does a mad 5 second dash to the door though which I put down to it slowing her down, not pain. 

She's currently getting rest 90% of the day, she does walk around and get a bit pacey in the late afternoon, and does the odd dash, which I obviously don't like, but when she does a short run she never puts any weight on her leg, I'm more concerned about it damaging her better leg or her slipping.

Her wound looks like it's healing really well, she's dying to clean it, but whenever she licks it she'll try nibbling on it too, I guess due to the stitches itching her, so it'll be nice tomorrow when she can give it a good clean after her stitches have been taken out. It's still ballooned out, and holding a lot of fluid, I hope this settles down soon.

She's now going regularly to the toilet, although her poop is really hard still and she struggles. I've been giving her 2 tablespoons of pureed butternut squash each day to try and help with this. She came off her tramadol/pain killers yesterday so maybe it won't be as hard in the next few days, if it was that which was contributing to the constipation. 

I think that's all I can think of for the time being, It's not been as difficult as I imagined, not sure if that's a good or bad thing though, maybe I'm being too lenient with her! She loves a massage, I'd be interested in getting a DVD for it too, so shall have a browse online, thanks for that idea!


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Oh just wanted to mention something else too. Her vet wanted to keep her on Metacam for 2 months, which I'm a bit concerned about. She's had it for the first week after her OP, but I didn't want to keep her on it longer due to her having problems previously with it, regards to pooing/puking blood. A couple of days ago, on day 6 and 7 of having it she started vomiting, I'm not sure if it's directly due to the Metacam but didn't want to take any chances so I stopped giving it her and she stopped being sick. I've started giving her devils claw and tumeric once again to hopefully help with any inflamation, I just hope it's enough to replace the metacam!

Just had a browse online for a canine massage DVD, couldn't find one for less than £20, and I'm completely skint at the moment, (just spent £120 on supplements, and I'm sure the vets will slap a nice amount on my card for removing a couple of stitches ). I do have a Tellington Touch massage book which I bought a few years back, but it's difficult turning the words into action so I'm not sure if I'm doing it right lol I can imagine it would be ten times easier with a DVD 



rona said:


> How's it going?


One of us must be psychic, I was busy writing my update before I read your reply


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Toby was on Metacam for 10 days. I decided not to continue with it as he rerally wasn't in pain & was moving around a bit too much for my liking. I wanted him to have a bit of pain to stop him being too bouncy .... although that didn't really work 

I spoke to the vet who agreed that if he seemed fine then I could stop the pain relief but give doses if required - we haven't needed to though.

As for massage DVD, I bought mine from the Canine Massge Centre for £19.99 but whilst it is good it is also pricey. I understand how you are feeling as we just spent nearly £3k on Toby's op (not convered in the insurance due to him already having this op in March) so money is now very tight, no pressies for us this Christmas unfortunately. Have you had a look on You Tube? There may be some clips that are useful. I found this which may help - I can't see all the links as I am at work at the moment Massage Tutorials

Glad to hear she's doing ok


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## Rottiemama (Nov 10, 2012)

It sounds as though things are going a little better  I'm really happy for the both of you. (Although I do believe that we as owners suffer LOADS more than what our pooches do during times like this  )

My specialist surgeon (oooops that sounds bad...not MINE, the specialist surgeon who has tended to my Rotties in the past....that's better) is not as conservative in terms of rehab as some others I have come across.

He encourages hydrotherapy almost as soon as the wound is healed and the staples/stitches are out. (Obviously once he has deemed it safe).

As soon as you get the go ahead (and hopefully it's sooner, rather than later) get her in the pool. Builds that muscle tone up really quickly, and if used during rehab (pretty early in the process) stops further muscle deterioration.

I know it can get pricey  , it costs a small fortune to keep them 'afloat'.....BUT: as a rehab tool, worth every begged, borrowed or stolen buck 

Hope things continue getting better for you!!!


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Cassie doesn't appear to be in any pain what so ever, though Rottweilers are known to have a high pain tolerance which probably helps! I can't notice a difference on or off tramadol, or metacam. Obviously if I noticed she was in a lot of pain I'd be putting her back on something.

Regards hydrotherapy, a neighbors relative runs a center nearby which does it, and you don't need a referral from the vets, so we'll be going to that. www.K9Swim.com

I'm just a bit concerned about her relation to water. She's never been in water properly. I think I might have mentioned it recently but a couple of years ago she had an accident in the park. The lake was frozen over, she was off lead on the fields quite far away from the lake and she went running off, we found her walking on the frozen lake, she was trying to get back to us, but the ice gave way and she fell in the water, 30 odd yards from the lakes edge. She kept trying to climb up back onto the ice but kept falling back under, with encouragement and screaming she managed to pull herself up and drag herself to land. We were really lucky that she managed to get back out. since then she hasn't gone anywhere near water, so I'm worried that she'll be scared at hydrotherapy.

I think I did want her to have hydrotherapy before going on walks, because it'll be more supportive on her leg. If the vet gives the all clear then I'll do that a couple of times per week for a few weeks before taking her on walks.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

If you are at all concerned about how she is reacting or/and the way the hydrotherapist handles her, do stop the session immediately.
I was horrified how the first hydrotherapist I saw handled mine as he's had a leg operation. Pulling him around every time 

Luckily the next one was brilliant and we've been seeing her for 3 years now


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## Rottiemama (Nov 10, 2012)

rona said:


> If you are at all concerned about how she is reacting or/and the way the hydrotherapist handles her, do stop the session immediately.
> I was horrified how the first hydrotherapist I saw handled mine as he's had a leg operation. Pulling him around every time
> 
> Luckily the next one was brilliant and we've been seeing her for 3 years now


As owners I feel we have every right to question the manner in which our pets are handled.
A good hydrotherapist should also be a good behaviourist in my opinion. They should be able to deal with the fears, any issues as well as making the experience as pleasant as possible for the dog undergoing rehab. 
I seem to be much like you. If I'm not happy with whoever is working with my boy, I find someone I am happy with


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## Rottiemama (Nov 10, 2012)

ryanr said:


> Cassie doesn't appear to be in any pain what so ever, though Rottweilers are known to have a high pain tolerance which probably helps! I can't notice a difference on or off tramadol, or metacam. Obviously if I noticed she was in a lot of pain I'd be putting her back on something.
> 
> Regards hydrotherapy, a neighbors relative runs a center nearby which does it, and you don't need a referral from the vets, so we'll be going to that. www.K9Swim.com
> 
> ...


Poor girl. That must have been incredibly traumatic for her. Give your hydrotherapist her full history in terms of her 'water trauma'. Hopefully she/he will have the necessary skills to deal with your poor girl's fears.
I have watched Cuba's hydrotherapist work with an extremely fearful Great Dane, and the change in the Dane's 'attitude' to his 'swimming' was something to behold :biggrin5:
Our boys swimming always ended when the Dane's session started, so we got to see him progress, and by week 2, the Dane would literally be leaping over the railings to try and bomb dive into the hydro pool. The joy on his face absolutely unbridled 

(My boy was nervy for about 2 minutes at his 1st session.....  after that, 'somebody stop me')

And the REAL benefit - how the hydrotherapy tires them  For you girl, getting some sort of exercise will make her a whole lot happier I reckon)

Please keep the updates coming. And know that there are people all over the world thinking of you both, and holding thumbs for you!)


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Don't worry, if the hydrotherapist is treating her in a manner that I don't like, I'll let him know my thoughts! She'll walk in very shallow water, a couple of inches, but never tried her in anything deeper. I just hope it goes ok! I'll give them a call next week.

I'll keep updating the thread, as it's handy for myself if I need to look back to find certain dates etc. but not much is happening at the moment. I woke up to a broken elizabethan collar this morning, but thankfully she's at the vets this evening to have her stitches out so she might not be needing the collar any more! Her itching does seems to be pretty bad though, so I'm a little concerned that her 'allergies' might have flared up, I just haven't been able to tell as she's constantly had the collar on for weeks now 

Thanks very much for the supportive messages, it does make the world of a difference having somewhere you can turn to for a bit of support and advice!


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Little update. Shes been to the vets, he didn't want to take the stitches out because there's still a lot of serum (I think he called it?) the bulging fluid under the skin. So she's going back in another week to have them taken out. 

He was really surprised, although a bit concerned, that she's walking well on it, and isn't in any pain despite not being on pain killers, or anti-inflammatory, he said the Devils Claw must be working well, so he didn't give any other medication. Didn't even charge either!

I asked him about starting exercise, and he said at least a month after the operation to start walking, or hydrotherapy, which sounds about right according to other peoples experience. Not the previous 10-15 days like he previously said.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Not much to update on, but she went to the vet's yesterday, and finally had her stitches out, he didn't charge either . She's walking on it a bit better, but still hops when she runs. I've taken her e-collar off for the first time in months, she had a good lick of her leg and cleaned herself for a good hour, but now she's settled down and seems fine. She looks so much happier without that collar on her! 

Vet said she can start hydrotherapy at the beginning of the new year, then wait until mid January or beginning of February to start slowly walking her and gradually increase the exercise. 

She doesn't have to go back to the vets now unless anything changes


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

What do you mean when she runs?  
She shouldn't be running!!!

Glad she's showing progress and is more comfy


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> What do you mean when she runs?
> She shouldn't be running!!!
> 
> Glad she's showing progress and is more comfy


She doesn't run run, she does a mad 2 second dash if she hears the door or something, it's something that I can't stop her from doing, but she doesn't put her leg down in those situations, she holds it up. If I could stop her I would!


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

With her not going out for about 2 months now, she's started playing up in the house a bit. When someone comes to the door she thinks she's going on a walk. At night she'll sometimes cry because I'm not with her, and when I take her to the vet's she starts barking at other dogs and wagging her tail because she wants to play with them, but other people look at me like I can't control her! She's started pulling on her lead too when walking from the car to the vets. Is this normal behaviour for her because she hasn't been out for so long and did you experience any of that? Do you think she'll return back to her usual self when she starts going out again?

She used to be perfect walking on her lead and she never used to bark at other dogs other than her friends when she was playing with them, she went from playing with a group of 8 or so dogs to not seeing any of them in such a short time, she must feel like I'm punishing her!


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Great to hear Cassie's leg's coming on well.

Re the behaviour issues - there's a lady on the Hip Replacement Thread (Anna43) who had some similar problems with her GSD and other dogs after Zara had her first THR surgery. 

Similar scenario, cage rest for 6 weeks, restricted exercise & obviously less contact with other dogs for a longish period etc so that's quite interesting.

Zara's just had her 2nd THR and is on cage rest - maybe pop a wee post on that thread or send Anna a PM & she might have some advice.

There wasn't a huge gap between the 1st and 2nd hip being done so I'm not sure if she'd resolved the issue. 

Best of luck


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## Rottiemama (Nov 10, 2012)

I'm so happy that things seem to be going so much better 

The good news is (and this is from my experience, so I'm taking a guess as to why your girl is doing this....) is that the better she starts feeling.....the worse the behaviour gets. See it as a doggie version of Cabin Fever!

I will never forget my 1st vet (oops my dogs 1st vet, not mine) - (wise old man) - tell me that I can't sit down and explain to my dog just why it is he or she needs to remain relatively quiet, calm and under exercised.

In fact, most humans don't even get that 

It's so tough knowing the dog is feeling 'happier and more comfortable and on the road to recovery', yet still having to curb all their enthusiasm 

Maybe up the 'nose work'? It used to work for my old boy (my old bitches, not so much.....) I hid all sorts of stinky things and treats alllllllllllllll over the house (oh the stench......) and then sent old Shaka off on his treasure hunts (only in the home as the minute we went outside on lead or off lead - he would carry on like looney) The nose work tired him somewhat.....but, boy I know it's hard when all they want to do is run, play, leap.... 

It's a pity you have a few weeks to go before the hydrotherapy starts....

Her behaviour towards other dogs and when on lead etc, is also pretty normal. It took me some serious time once Shaka was rocking and rolling again to 're-introduce' him to certain activities. He needed 'weaning' from his isolation.
But: as soon as he was getting his FULL exercise quota again, and his energy levels were being satisfied, he DID revert to his old self.

Such tough times. Holding thumbs for both of you, as always.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Sorry for not replying sooner I've been really busy the past couple of weeks and not had much spare time to post on here. Her behaviors still not great. She's bouncing about a lot which is really starting to worry me and it's difficult to stop her. I've tried upping games for her each day, such as hiding treats under a cup and letting her find which cup it's under etc, but I have to be careful not to get her too excited so I have to limit any other more exciting games. The worst times are when someone visits the house, I just can't get her to sit still. 

One thing which I'm really concerned about is her leg is still sticking out of her body at a strange angle. I thought the surgery would stop it from doing this, is there any reason why it should still be like it? It's not suddenly happened, it's been like it since she had the accident. When she had the stitches removed the vet examined her leg, and did the drawer test etc. and found nothing unusual, or at least he didn't say so if he did.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I was worried about exactly the same  It looks as if the leg is in a bow shape?


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> I was worried about exactly the same  It looks as if the leg is in a bow shape?


Looking from behind her (at her bum) it does look bow shaped curving out to the side, whilst her good leg looks normal. Is this the same thing as you're describing? Is this normal then?

edit
Actually hm, I'm not sure, it's hard to describe, the only way I can say is it looks like she sticks her thigh/knee out to the side, kind of rotated... I'll try and take a photo of it tomorrow if I can, it'd be nice to get a bit of spare time for once lol I just hope the operation worked and she hasn't ruined it, is there any way I can check to see if it's been ruined? I wouldn't like to do the drawer sign obviously, wouldn't like to hurt her!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> Looking from behind her (at her bum) it does look bow shaped curving out to the side, whilst her good leg looks normal. Is this the same thing as you're describing? Is this normal then?


I'm not sure if it's normal per say, but I think they may be walking slightly differently on that leg in the most comfortable position.
It wouldn't take much of a tilt of the foot to make the leg look like that.

Re. The visitor problem, maybe it would be wise to borrow a crate for those occasions. Better than risking the leg.
I assume Christmas is going to be very difficult, though she is over the worst now


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Glad she is getting better 

Toby is very full of beans now & is a right sod some days. He pulls so badly when it's time for a toilet break, tries to jump up to get his lead then grabs it & shakes it. He ran in to the living room yesterday when I opened his crate door then grabbed loads of tinsel from the tree & proceeded to shred it 

Tbh it's pretty much what he did last time but much worse now as he seems to have recovered very quickly. We go back t the vets next week for another x-ray then (fingers crossed) he can start having short walks & hydro.


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> I'm not sure if it's normal per say, but I think they may be walking slightly differently on that leg in the most comfortable position.
> It wouldn't take much of a tilt of the foot to make the leg look like that.
> 
> Re. The visitor problem, maybe it would be wise to borrow a crate for those occasions. Better than risking the leg.
> I assume Christmas is going to be very difficult, though she is over the worst now


Please don't mention Christmas! It's going to be a bloody nightmare. A neighbour has a crate of a decent size which I'm sure I could borrow, I'll give it a think, do you think it would be too late to start training her in it now for christmas day/eve/boxing where people will be around? This year only close family are coming, so hopefully it shouldn't be too bad. *fingers crossed*.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> Please don't mention Christmas! It's going to be a bloody nightmare. A neighbour has a crate of a decent size which I'm sure I could borrow, I'll give it a think, do you think it would be too late to start training her in it now for christmas day/eve/boxing where people will be around? This year only close family are coming, so hopefully it shouldn't be too bad. *fingers crossed*.


You can but try


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> Glad she is getting better
> 
> Toby is very full of beans now & is a right sod some days. He pulls so badly when it's time for a toilet break, tries to jump up to get his lead then grabs it & shakes it. He ran in to the living room yesterday when I opened his crate door then grabbed loads of tinsel from the tree & proceeded to shred it
> 
> Tbh it's pretty much what he did last time but much worse now as he seems to have recovered very quickly. We go back t the vets next week for another x-ray then (fingers crossed) he can start having short walks & hydro.


lmao, he sounds a spit of Cassie, re tinsel, something she'd do. I haven't put the tree up yet (dreading it!) she has an obsession with baubles, probably went through a whole set of them last year, we have to put polystyrene ones at the bottom of the tree so she doesn't cut herself on the glass ones lol

Good look with the x-rays, I'm going to enquire about the hydrotherapy next week, because hopefully she can start it in 2 weeks time, I'm hoping they have some appointments sometime before/after new years day.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ryanr said:


> lmao, he sounds a spit of Cassie, re tinsel, something she'd do. I haven't put the tree up yet (dreading it!) she has an obsession with baubles, probably went through a whole set of them last year, we have to put polystyrene ones at the bottom of the tree so she doesn't cut herself on the glass ones lol
> 
> Good look with the x-rays, I'm going to enquire about the hydrotherapy next week, because hopefully she can start it in 2 weeks time, I'm hoping they have some appointments sometime before/after new years day.


LOL, he's usually fine & never wrecks he's so naughty at the moment. He sort of knew that he was making me laugh (despite the poor tinsel getting ruined!) & if a dog can have a sense of humour then he definitely does.

You may find she is fine with the crate. I had never used one with Toby before his first op & he took to it suprisingly well. I think he decided he wanted it when Roxy (my other dog) took a liking to resting in it. If she wanted it then it must be good!

Am hoping we can get some hydro in but have a feeling the training centre we go to is hut for 2wks over Christmas


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

rona said:


> You can but try


I won't get too enthusiastic then, I can picture it going awfully wrong 

She does still hold her leg in the air, but when standing still she'll put her foot flat on the floor, and when she walks very slowly she'll put weight on it, again with the foot flat on the floor. Do you think this is still a good sign? Or do you think she should be fully walking on it now without holding it in the air? I don't know at what pace she should be recovering. In fact that reminds me, I should have another read of your diary, I've read it through twice already, you'd think I'd know it all by now!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ryanr said:


> I won't get too enthusiastic then, I can picture it going awfully wrong
> 
> She does still hold her leg in the air, but when standing still she'll put her foot flat on the floor, and when she walks very slowly she'll put weight on it, again with the foot flat on the floor. Do you think this is still a good sign? Or do you think she should be fully walking on it now without holding it in the air? I don't know at what pace she should be recovering. In fact that reminds me, I should have another read of your diary, I've read it through twice already, you'd think I'd know it all by now!


Sounds about on par with Alfies recovery, and if your vet is happy!!!
We all worried just the same as you


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> LOL, he's usually fine & never wrecks he's so naughty at the moment. He sort of knew that he was making me laugh (despite the poor tinsel getting ruined!) & if a dog can have a sense of humour then he definitely does.
> 
> You may find she is fine with the crate. I had never used one with Toby before his first op & he took to it suprisingly well. I think he decided he wanted it when Roxy (my other dog) took a liking to resting in it. If she wanted it then it must be good!
> 
> Am hoping we can get some hydro in but have a feeling the training centre we go to is hut for 2wks over Christmas


Cassie's a devil, she's usually ok, but every now and then whilst I'm busy doing work, she'll nick something to try and get attention, I just try to ignore her when she does it, but if it's something dangerous (like a bauble) and I have to get it off her, then there's not much else I can do but to stop her, I don't really know how to approach situations like that. Her obsession with baubles is definitely my fault because she gets attention when she steals one 

I have had a crate before in the house, when we first got her, and she was fine with it, she'd sleep in it at night without much of a problem, but we didn't use it for long, and it took a huge amount of space up.

If your hydro center is closed, ours might be too  after all, a lot of people don't even walk their dog when it gets a bit cold, let alone take them swimming  last year, christmas morning, 7am, thick snow covering the ground, I didn't cross a single dog walker in the park


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

LOL, if she likes baubles then this really is her time of year!! 

My main worry is that we have tiled flooring downstairs which was great in that carpets weren't getting filthy but now I'm worried that Toby is more likely to slip & hurt himself. He gets so excited at the moment but am hoping he will calm down soon.

I've been looking at getting some sort of floor coating to make the tiles less slippy as we just have loads of offcuts of carpet everywhere at the moment - looks 'lovely' 

I worry so much about his legs & his hips. I'm constantly looking at them & know exactly what you mean about worrying about the leg not looking 'right'. I think I'm imagining it as everyone tells me he looks good. I think the visit to the vets will confirm if he really is ok or not


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I knew Alfie was ok as soon as he got into the hydro pool 

With the weight off the leg, he moved perfectly


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## Rottiemama (Nov 10, 2012)

Oh boy. I get where you are coming from, and I'm thrown back into a nightmare that stills pops up in my head from time to time 

RE: the recovery, and the weird angle of leg:

Noticed the same with my deceased old fella Shaka in his recovery. Was certain the ortho vet was lying to my hubby and I, and I was determined to expose this 
In our case, it actually took a close friend, who is a physiotherapist, to put our minds at ease. She arranged for me to chat to a human orthipaedic surgeon, who explained 'muscle atrophy and how it influences the appearance of the injured leg' (and in Rotties, because they are so powerfully built it's easily noticeable) and how the dog has got so used to 'carrying the injured leg' in a certain way etc etc etc, that one shouldn't read too much into irregularities etc, until the recovery is over.
Almost like a muscle memory......the dog doesn't yet know 'how' to use the injured leg normally again, and this varies from dog to dog - just as it does in humans.
This dude really put my mind at ease at the time.

(Sorry I'm waffling on here...just trying to get all the thoughts from a few years back down while I can remember them )

As Rona also said above: as SOON as they hit the water, and start rebuilding that muscle mass in the leg, and the muscles start doing what they should be doing again i.e. supporting the leg as a whole, the dog becomes more comfortable with the leg in time. 

I'm not 100% sure this will be the case with your Cassie - but it all turned out well for my fella. Yes, the leg was never 100% again, but with good Chondroitin, Glucosamine, Vit C, Omega 3 supplements and swimming - he did really well in living his life. 

If your vet is happy, but you are STILL concerned, there is absolutely nothing wrong at all, with taking your girl to another vet for a 2nd opinion on her recovery, and how it's going 

The socializing 

I put a sign on my front door when Shaka was recovering saying, "INJURED DOG INSIDE - DO NOT KNOCK OR SHOUT - WALK TO SIDE GATE AND LIGHTLY PRESS INTERCOM BUTTON - DO NOT SPEAK - SOMEONE WILL BE WITH YOU SHORTLY" (I disabled the doorbell from day 1)

When friends/family came to visit, they had to call me in advance and let me know their arrival time - usually confirmed with an 'sms' when they were around the corner. On receipt - straight into the 'hospital crate'  until the guests were inside, settled and ready to greet in a calm manner. (Didn't always work, but the inital chaos was at least kept to a minimum)

Strict rules to family and friends about how to deal with the patient, and ALL fave toys etc were pakced away when ppl came. I also dished out HUGE marrow bones in the crate when things got too exciting outside  - 



It is stressful beyond belief - that I can tell you, and I wish you ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the best with the tough task ahead. Just know that there REALLY is light at the end of the tunnel. 

(My little fella Cuba has already eaten: 1 singing Santa, 2 stockings, 3 strips of tinsel, 1 baubel, and a wooden Baby Jesus........ )


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## Rottiemama (Nov 10, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> LOL, if she likes baubles then this really is her time of year!!
> 
> My main worry is that we have tiled flooring downstairs which was great in that carpets weren't getting filthy but now I'm worried that Toby is more likely to slip & hurt himself. He gets so excited at the moment but am hoping he will calm down soon.
> 
> ...


Oh boy, I remember this as well.  We had just put in beautiful wooden floors..... but they couldn't stay, too risky... So I enjoyed my gorgeous new floors for 22 days  And then went and bought loose carpeting to cover it *which to this day is on display  in our home - and thank goodness, because my latest hooligan would never have survived puppyhood on those floors....so the ugly dove grey carpet it is*


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## ryanr (Aug 7, 2012)

Hi everyone. Sorry it's been so long since I last updated. Thank you for all of the messages which I never got to reply to, rest assured I have read them! I had to come off the forum because I was getting overly obsessed with her leg and it was making me ill thinking about it 24/7, and I needed to take my mind off it. Though I didn't want to leave you all in limbo over how she's getting on so I thought I'd update my thread.

Leg wise, she's doing ok. She's back on her walks, 20 minutes each day. I think it's been about 3 month's now since she had the OP, possibly 4 (haven't checked calendar). I don't know if the operation has done its job or not, but there is an improvement. She can walk without much of an indication that she's had an op, she has an every so slight lameness to the leg, but nothing really noticeable. When she's been sleeping or lay down for a while she will limp when she gets up for a couple of minutes but that soon goes. And if she's walking too fast then she sometimes carries the leg for a short while. But, things are definitely better with it, whether that be through conservative management, or through the operation.

Not sure if I've mentioned her 'allergies' (no idea if it is allergies, but the vet's seem to think so), about 3 months ago they completely disappeared, though unfortunately the past 4 weeks they've gradually returned and it's getting quite bad, I'm concerned she's going to break out in hotspots again, she can't go 5 minutes without itching, her eyes are a mess, and she sneezes quite a lot. So no idea what I'm going to do about that. The vet wanted to do allergy tests and make a special vaccine for her to have every 3 months, but surprise surprise they want £300 for the tests, and then another £150 every 3 month for the vaccine, with no promise that it would help. Which I just can't afford. 

Again regards no longer having insurance, she used to have it, until she got older, now it would work out cheaper paying for treatment, as insurance quotes are all around £40 per month, 50% excess, minimum of £300 due to her age, so I'd still be paying for half of the treatment cost, plus the monthly premiums which just doesn't make sense.

Oh the joys of having a dog! I'm never having animals ever again


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