# 4 month old Cavachon house / potty training help please



## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Hi all

This is our first dog and things are going great so far just need a bit of advice

Ted is pad trained and goes on the pad to pee and poo overnight; great. We now take the pads up in the day and leave the back door open and he always goes outside to pee and poo. However, I feel this is causing a little problem because he is not learning to hold it. I am wondering how he will ever learn to hold it over night whilst there are pads down? And at the moment if he does a poop on the pads, he sometimes does another one on the carpet as well at night. I feel if I remove the pads overnight I know he will just do his business on the carpet

He isn't in a crate, and its too late for that now, but I see the advantage of it now because it is that what teaches them to hold. How can I do this when he is used to going outside if the door is open (which it always is in the day) or going on the pads inside. I am unsure on the best way to transition. I read he should be able to hold for up to 5hrs now at this age. He is strange with his poops in that he will eat in the morning and not go all day. I read after 20 mins they are ready to go - but he seems to go twice overnight and once in the day. I am wondering if he is shy at going in front of us - maybe we scared him shouting on those few occasions when he was turding on our lounge carpets etc.

He will never do his business on walks - but I am not concerned with this right now, I read they do when they get a bit older 

I work from home so can see to him every hour during the day if needs be.

Any help appreciated 

Thank you


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Thinking about it now...

... I haven't seen him actually doing a poop for nearly a week


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Could well be the pads, they can confuse the issue, if they have been pre trained on pads or paper, leaving them down can act as a cue that its the right place to do it and inside the house is acceptable. On one had you are trying to teach him outside is the only acceptable place and then on the other hand you are putting down a pad that is a cue and giving him a message to say this is where you do it or at least at night so he associates the pad/night if he needs to go this is the place to do it and what a good boy I am.

If you never did any night time training, taking him out in the night if and when he woke or stirred, or just popping him out in the night a time or two if he wasn't within sight and sound of you when he couldn't go through the night as he didn't have enough capacity to hold himself for long periods and needed to naturally go more frequently then again to him, as far as he is probably concerned still, if I need to go at night this is the right place.

First off I would try getting rid of the pads, he is going on the carpet some of the time anyway, which can be another problem with pads too, because of the soft padded texture and shape some dogs will start to go on the nearest thing that resembles it, usually rugs and carpets. It may be his doing the first on the pad and then when soiled he is going for the next best thing.

Telling them off too can make some nervous about going in front of you and more likely to sneak off and do it out of sight or when you are not there, so may be an element of that too.

If it were me I would be going back to complete basics, taking him out regularly in the day, when he starts if you haven't already establish a toilet cue command by when he starts to toilet use a word of choice, used all the time they eventually associate the word with toileting and then you can use it as a toilet command.
When finished loads of praise and a couple of treats to re-enforce its the correct place and encourage it next time. I would then also start to take him out at night too. If he is within sight and sound when he wakes or stirs, if he isn't set an alarm and take him out that way a couple of times. Get rid of the pads. If he does do it in the garden then lots of praise and a couple of treats. I would try this for a week or so and see how you get on.

Also any accidents clean up with a special pet stain/odour remover as any smell left will enourage reapeats in the same areas or indoors.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks very much, brilliant advice. I will give it a go. He understands wee wee as doing a pee - as we hardly catch him pooping we don't get chance to associate a word with this - is it better a different word? Or to him does wee wee mean toileting?

What do you suggest about day time, as at the moment I work upstairs and he has the whole kitchen diner and garden and he lets himself out to wee and poo when he wants. This is what we wanted. But now I'm wondering whether it's not teaching him to hold on. Do you think I should put the pad the other side of the door when it is shut? A friend told me to do this

I bought this porch potty - I eventually want to train him to at least poo on this. We have a young child and dog poops on the lawn is not nice for anyone! Do you think it's best to leave teaching him to go on the potty yet? I am thinking it will further confuse the situation at the moment

Thanks again for the advice


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

StokieShinobi said:


> Thanks very much, brilliant advice. I will give it a go. He understands wee wee as doing a pee - as we hardly catch him pooping we don't get chance to associate a word with this - is it better a different word? Or to him does wee wee mean toileting?
> 
> What do you suggest about day time, as at the moment I work upstairs and he has the whole kitchen diner and garden and he lets himself out to wee and poo when he wants. This is what we wanted. But now I'm wondering whether it's not teaching him to hold on. Do you think I should put the pad the other side of the door when it is shut? A friend told me to do this
> 
> ...


To be honest I have never bothered to teach separate words for each function, I just use wees for both and mine have caught on it means toilet and they just do whatever they need to at that point.

If he already toilets in the garden in the day at least, I would be inclined to get rid of the pads completely. If you want him to have a designated toileting area, be it an area of the garden only or the porch potty you have brought, then you are going to have to go out with him and teach him, and if he performs in that designated area praise and treat him to re-enforce its the correct behaviour you want and encourage him to want to do it all the time. So really you might as well start now.
If your upstairs and the door is open then you cant really do any of it, so personally I would perhaps shut the door, but at regular intervals maybe every 45 minutes or so go down and get him out. They usually need to go too after eating sleeping and playing to make sure he goes out then. Try the night time taking him out previously suggested too. If he knows Wees means at least urinating its good because you can take him to the designated area and use it as a cue, if you can get him to pee there even at first its a step in the right direction.

How often and when do you feed him? That may be a factor too, usually if you feed set meals at set times, because there is a digestive transit time you often find that the time they poop developes some kind of pattern too. Another factor can sometimes be the actual food. Some foods are packed out with bulkers and fillers that don't have any particular nutritional value, all it does it makes more waste, more waste more poop, with this type too, you often need to feed actually more in quantity to give them the right nutritional value, where as in a more highly nutritional natural food, you feed less, so they actually poop less too with no added bulkers and fillers and just highly nutritional nothing added highly digestible content. It may be worth looking at what food his on, whats in it, and if its not as good as you may have thought think of changing. If you do, change it slowly over a week or so adding a little more of the new and a little less of the old on a daily basis until completely on the new. Sudden abrupt changes can cause stomach upset which is what you don't want.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks again for the great advice.

He is on Eden food as I read it was up there with the best. He weighs 5kg and the feeding suggestion is 160g (I assume thats per day?). I have read on the Cavachon FaceBook page people actually feed a little less of this Eden because it is packed with goodness so I feed his 75g at 7am and 75g at 6pm. The strange thing is, he hasn't pooped all day - and this is not unusual. He leaves two poops for me every morning inside, and then after eating breakfast does nothing all day. Sometimes I can't get him to go in the evening even - which I guess is why he is leaving me two poops every night. What do you suggest for this? I can't make him poop lol

I was feeding him too much a few weeks ago, 150g 3 times a day - and he was pooping loads then (but still never 20 mins after eating, its random when he poops) - but at least I could praise him when he went outside to poop then. Now its difficult. 

Thanks again for your advice, it is very useful!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

StokieShinobi said:


> Thanks again for the great advice.
> 
> He is on Eden food as I read it was up there with the best. He weighs 5kg and the feeding suggestion is 160g (I assume thats per day?). I have read on the Cavachon FaceBook page people actually feed a little less of this Eden because it is packed with goodness so I feed his 75g at 7am and 75g at 6pm. The strange thing is, he hasn't pooped all day - and this is not unusual. He leaves two poops for me every morning inside, and then after eating breakfast does nothing all day. Sometimes I can't get him to go in the evening even - which I guess is why he is leaving me two poops every night. What do you suggest for this? I can't make him poop lol
> 
> ...


I know a lot of people on here like Eden or Im pretty sure its one that's used and recommended quite a bit anyway. The guides on the bags are just that guides some will need more some less. As long as he is putting on a nice steady regular amount growing well and not getting fat or over weight then you have probably got it right.
Really though at his age he should be on at least 3 meals a day, with his daily total amount split equally between the 3 meals and spread evenly spaced apart.
Its so long now since I had a pup I cant remember exactly when I went from the 4 meals to 3, but at 4 months should still be 3 meals at least.

As a rule you should be able to quite comfortably feel his ribs, but not see them, he should have a waist.

Maybe try him on 3 meals that's what he should be having at his age maybe even 4 hopefully someone who has a small or similar breed and more recently had a puppy and can remember better can confirm.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks again

I will keep posted how he goes. He's a great little doggy and picks things up so quick, he's learnt loads of tricks already, chuffed with him 

One other slight concern I have regarding number 2's is sometimes they are extremely runny, I assumed this is normal for a puppy?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

It depends on how often it happens you may get the odd one if they have perhaps eaten something they shouldn't. If its on a very regular basis though it may be more of a concern.. Has he been wormed up to date, the breeder should have started a worming programme and told you when he was last wormed and when to do the next one and carry on. Over feeding can sometimes cause it though too. Might be worth trying splitting the meals for that reason too to 3 a day.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Oh gosh, we got him at 12 weeks, he had been wormed and de-flead - didn't know we had to carry on with treatment. Now I feel bad


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

StokieShinobi said:


> Oh gosh, we got him at 12 weeks, he had been wormed and de-flead - didn't know we had to carry on with treatment. Now I feel bad


Normally breeders should start worming at about 2 weeks or some leave it a week or two later when weaning starts, depending on the product they are then usually weaned about every 2/3 weeks until 12 weeks old and then monthly up to 6 months, and then after that they can be wormed as adults every 3/4 months.
if the breeder wormed just before you got him at 12 weeks, and he is about 4months 16 weeks now then he would be about due, so looks like you haven't missed any. Im assuming he has had all his vaccinations now? its odd the vets didn't discuss worming with you when he had his vaccinations or being 12 weeks when you got him had the breeder done the full vaccinations before you picked him up?

Its not really your fault either the vets or really the breeder should have explained it all, if its your first dogs then you wouldnt necessarily know unless told.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks for all your help, i really do appreciate it

We got him at 10 weeks sorry, then had his final 12 week vac and could take him out on walks then. The vet mentioned nothing about worming. I best read up on it


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I


StokieShinobi said:


> Thanks for all your help, i really do appreciate it
> 
> We got him at 10 weeks sorry, then had his final 12 week vac and could take him out on walks then. The vet mentioned nothing about worming. I best read up on it


If you got him at 10 weeks and he hasn't been wormed for at least 6 weeks, then I would worm him now. You will need to have him weighed accurately as wormer dose is based on a dose to weight ratio. Don't mess about with over the counter pet shop ones they are not usually that good. Best thing would be to give the vets a call, and ask if the veterinary nurse will weight him for you as you need to order and pick up some wormer. Most will weigh them free of charge especially if you are getting wormer too.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

WIll do, thank you very much


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

your very welcome. If there is anything else your worried about or not sure of just ask. Your a member now so should be a lot easier.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

I was just wondering if you are the only other member lol

New to this doggy world with plenty of time and love to give, so eager to learn. Your extremely helpful - thanks again!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

StokieShinobi said:


> I was just wondering if you are the only other member lol
> 
> New to this doggy world with plenty of time and love to give, so eager to learn. Your extremely helpful - thanks again!


no there are more

Don't think this new format we have had recently helps the new posts are harder to find and they seem to drop down out of sight quicker too. I find I miss a lot and keeping up with new posts of threads at times.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Great news - first morning with no smelly presents awaiting me! So chuffed  set my alarm for 3am and to be fair he did a wee straight away and happily went back in his bed in the kitchen. Then he just went out now at 6am for both a number 1 and 2. No puppy pads down all night, and no messes on the carpet. Success  just hope he picks it up quickly lol. Should he be able to hold through the night at this age?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

StokieShinobi said:


> Great news - first morning with no smelly presents awaiting me! So chuffed  set my alarm for 3am and to be fair he did a wee straight away and happily went back in his bed in the kitchen. Then he just went out now at 6am for both a number 1 and 2. No puppy pads down all night, and no messes on the carpet. Success  just hope he picks it up quickly lol. Should he be able to hold through the night at this age?


At four months from what I can remember they were beginning too or not so far off. I have always had large breeds though, so don't know about smaller breeds,
I have seen posts and things to suggest that small breeds can tend to take longer sometimes and can be that little bit harder to house train.
Great news that you have had a success. I would still keep the plan up for at least a few days maybe even a week though, to make sure. You said that you wanted him to toiler in a designated area of the garden or preferably the porch potty you brought? In which case he needs to be taught the designated area rather then anywhere in the garden I understand he does now? So for that reason you will need to go out and reward him when he does it while training him anyway.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

I've been taking his water up at night to help - is this a big no no? I've read conflicting opinions on this and have come to the conclusion it's ok whilst in the potty training stage. Otherwise adult dogs need water access 24/7? 

He does drink a lot throughout the day


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

StokieShinobi said:


> I've been taking his water up at night to help - is this a big no no? I've read conflicting opinions on this and have come to the conclusion it's ok whilst in the potty training stage. Otherwise adult dogs need water access 24/7?
> 
> He does drink a lot throughout the day


They should have water 24/7 especially in this weather, they don't tend to drink so much at night as they do in the day, but in case they need to, its needs to be freely available especially as I said in this weather. Imagine if you wake in the night with a mouth as dry as the desert and needing a drink and you couldn't have one.
Its exactly the same for them too. Some people do take water up but its a big no no. If they need to pee they will water or no water so doesn't really make any difference anyway. When younger they do have limited capacity to hold large amounts for long periods due to the size of their bladders and they also don't always recognise the need to go and sometimes not vey far in advance. That's why they often get caught short too. It does all improve with growing age and toilet training.
Through the day they do tend to drink more due to being more active too.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Ok thanks, I'll leave it down from now on


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi I've just spotted this thread but then sometimes weekends are quieter than weekdays as people are out at work etc so you may find some members are not responding to threads. Sled dog has helped you with great advice really, I've had a cockerpoo who worked out to nose the cat flap when he asked to go out. Keeping the door open (whilst it sounds like a good idea) you won't be able to do in winter with the cold. Some people actually teach their pups to nose a bell to ask to go out.


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## StokieShinobi (Jun 26, 2015)

Got one lol


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