# Vestibular disease? .9 days and still not able to stand or walk.



## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Hi, My 13 year old OES had a sudden attack on the first of February. All the symptoms point to vestibular disease which was suggested by the vet when she saw her that day. She has slowly improved, by this I mean the rapid eye movement has stopped and she is more aware of her surroundings. She is eating and drinking well. What concerns me is she is still unable to walk. She wants to. She will sit up for short periods of time, a few minutes at the most, and she did manage 3 steps, before falling, on Wednesday. She is on steroids and antibiotics. Has anyone else experienced this, apparent, slow rate of recovery. Looking through the forum, she does appear to be taking her time.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Marj555 said:


> Hi, My 13 year old OES had a sudden attack on the first of February. All the symptoms point to vestibular disease which was suggested by the vet when she saw her that day. She has slowly improved, by this I mean the rapid eye movement has stopped and she is more aware of her surroundings. She is eating and drinking well. What concerns me is she is still unable to walk. She wants to. She will sit up for short periods of time, a few minutes at the most, and she did manage 3 steps, before falling, on Wednesday. She is on steroids and antibiotics. Has anyone else experienced this, apparent, slow rate of recovery. Looking through the forum, she does appear to be taking her time.


I haven't had it in any of my oldies but my friends had it with a couple of her dogs as they have gotten older. It can take a few weeks before they are recovered and even then they may sometimes be left with a permanent head tilt, one of hers did and one didn't. Both hers would not eat and had to be hand fed and coaxed with human food and helped to drink while they were having it too, so the fact that yours is eating and drinking is a plus. If there is some improvement then it sounds more promising.

The vestibular system works out the bodies position in time and space and co-ordinates balance and head and eye movement, the receptors are in the middle ear that then send the information to a part of the brain to process, the problems can be caused by several things, even from infection in the middle ear. There is a form also called idiopathic (unknown cause) also known as geriatric vestibular syndrome because it affects older dogs, mean age is about 12.5 years. With this form if that's what it is
where there are no underlying or in some cases sinister conditions, then this type will often right itself.

When her dogs were having difficulty walking or couldn't walk, my friend used to sling walk them to go to the toilet etc, by using a towel. You can see how to assist them in this way on the video below. This can also help with the recovery too.






You may find this article on vestibular disease in dogs helpful too, further down it lists other things that you can do help and make them more comfortable too.

http://vestibular.org/sites/default/files/page_files/Vestibular disease in dogs and cats.pdf


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Thanks for your reply. I read the info you attached, via link, and watched the video on helping walk/support the dog. From what I've read we are doing everything we can. We also got a support harness for her, knowing she would have difficulty walking. Poppy has suffered from psuedomonis in her ears for most of her life which is why I think the vet diagnosed vestibular disease due to an inner ear infection. Psuedomonis (not sure about the spelling) it resistant to antibiotics and is very, if not impossible, to eliminate and can only be managed. The fact that she is now her usual self, except for the standing and walking make me think she may of had a stroke. What's the difference? Are there tests I could ask the vet to do? Should I be more forceful trying to get her to walk? Am I just being impatient? I will give her all the time she needs. I have already spoken to my employer and they are aware I may need another week or so off, which they are being very good about. I just wish I was 100% sure what I'm dealing with.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Marj555 said:


> Thanks for your reply. I read the info you attached, via link, and watched the video on helping walk/support the dog. From what I've read we are doing everything we can. We also got a support harness for her, knowing she would have difficulty walking. Poppy has suffered from psuedomonis in her ears for most of her life which is why I think the vet diagnosed vestibular disease due to an inner ear infection. Psuedomonis (not sure about the spelling) it resistant to antibiotics and is very, if not impossible, to eliminate and can only be managed. The fact that she is now her usual self, except for the standing and walking make me think she may of had a stroke. What's the difference? Are there tests I could ask the vet to do? Should I be more forceful trying to get her to walk? Am I just being impatient? I will give her all the time she needs. I have already spoken to my employer and they are aware I may need another week or so off, which they are being very good about. I just wish I was 100% sure what I'm dealing with.


Its difficult to say because taking her age into consideration there is the idiopathic version also often called geriatric vestibular syndrome because it affects old dogs most common age 12.5 years that they don't know the cause of and normally just rights itself in a few weeks. There is though also a version that can be caused by infections of the inner ear too, because the receptors for the vestibular system are in the inner ear. So its difficult to say in her case as it could possibly be either type. The fact that some of the symptoms have abated like I think you said the darting eyes etc, then if anything that at least sounds encouraging and it could be just a matter of being more patient and it needs a bit more time.

I have had a pseudomonas infection when I had my hip replaced and what they did was swab the skin and also did a culture to not only identify the bacterial infection present they also did a resistance test aswell to see what antibiotics it was resistant too and what ones would work. They had started antibiotics when I developed a haematoma and they suspected a possible infection too when they actually took the swab, but when the results come back they found that one of the ABs I was given (was given two combined ones) one of them was one of the ones there was a resistance too, and one there wasn't, so they then discontinued the resistant one and also put me on another one that had worked on the swab test.

I have found a detailed article on pseudomonas otitis infection, that gives detailed information on the condition, diagnosis and treatment that may act as a check list
to see what she has had done so far, and what may help as far as the ear infection goes, that may be of some use/help to you too.

http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/sites/default/files/attachments/Pseudomonas Otitis.pdf


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Thanks again for your reply. I will read the article on the ear infection, I have downloaded the file. I have just spoken to the vet, to ask if it was ok to try some motion sickness pills, she said this would be worth a try as it appears to have helped in some cases. As far as getting her up on her feet I should probably be more forceful and not let her give up so easily. When the other half comes in from work, hopefully with some motion sickness pills, we will try to get her up. She's quite a big girl at 33kg so probably best with 2 people. If we are no further forward on Monday the vet has said to call. They are a very good vet practice and I think I'm just being impatient. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again for your advice. Much appreciated.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Marj555 said:


> Thanks again for your reply. I will read the article on the ear infection, I have downloaded the file. I have just spoken to the vet, to ask if it was ok to try some motion sickness pills, she said this would be worth a try as it appears to have helped in some cases. As far as getting her up on her feet I should probably be more forceful and not let her give up so easily. When the other half comes in from work, hopefully with some motion sickness pills, we will try to get her up. She's quite a big girl at 33kg so probably best with 2 people. If we are no further forward on Monday the vet has said to call. They are a very good vet practice and I think I'm just being impatient. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again for your advice. Much appreciated.


Like the vet said its worth giving it ago it could help anythings worth a try. Hopefully it will be the form that given enough time it will just pass, at least it does seem that some symptoms like the darting eyes have stopped now which at least seems encouraging.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2017)

Marj555 said:


> Thanks again for your reply. I will read the article on the ear infection, I have downloaded the file. I have just spoken to the vet, to ask if it was ok to try some motion sickness pills, she said this would be worth a try as it appears to have helped in some cases. As far as getting her up on her feet I should probably be more forceful and not let her give up so easily. When the other half comes in from work, hopefully with some motion sickness pills, we will try to get her up. She's quite a big girl at 33kg so probably best with 2 people. If we are no further forward on Monday the vet has said to call. They are a very good vet practice and I think I'm just being impatient. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again for your advice. Much appreciated.


I was going to suggest something like dramamine for motion sickness. 
With geriatric vestibular disease, it really does seem to be all over the place. Some dogs recover quickly and easily, others take their time recovering, or may always walk with a head tilt or other symptoms may not ever completely resolve. 
I would give the motion sickness medication time to get in to her system before encouraging her too much to walk. I can't imagine how strange that must feel to have all your balance gone like that, so yes, lots of physical support. Good luck, I hope the dramamine makes a difference!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Used to walk an old Black Lab who took 3 weeks to be able to walk unaided. After a few months he only had a slight head tilt which remained until he died about 2 years later


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Thanks all, for your interest. No change in Poppy today. Still unable to get up. Got some Stugeron tablets so will try and get her on her paws tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Update on Poppy. We gave her 1 Stugeron last night about 6pm and before 9pm she stood up on her own. With us supporting her, she managed four or five steps. Gave her another half pill this morning, about 6 am and she has just managed to get up and walk 6 or 7 steps, on her own, using the settee as support. Her head tilt is also gone. She is on her way to recovery, fingers crossed. Thanks again for your support.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2017)

Marj555 said:


> Update on Poppy. We gave her 1 Stugeron last night about 6pm and before 9pm she stood up on her own. With us supporting her, she managed four or five steps. Gave her another half pill this morning, about 6 am and she has just managed to get up and walk 6 or 7 steps, on her own, using the settee as support. Her head tilt is also gone. She is on her way to recovery, fingers crossed. Thanks again for your support.


Great news, glad she is doing so much better


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

That's brilliant news


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Marj555 said:


> Update on Poppy. We gave her 1 Stugeron last night about 6pm and before 9pm she stood up on her own. With us supporting her, she managed four or five steps. Gave her another half pill this morning, about 6 am and she has just managed to get up and walk 6 or 7 steps, on her own, using the settee as support. Her head tilt is also gone. She is on her way to recovery, fingers crossed. Thanks again for your support.


Great news, so glad that she is making good progress now.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

How is she doing?


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Hi Rona, Poppy recovered well,though she has never walked in a straight line again and a bit of head tilt has remained. Like a lot of people I tend to use forums when there is a problem, for which I apologise, and I have just logged back in today since my last posting in February last year. Poppy had a stroke 2 nights ago. The vet has confirmed this and we think that she had a stroke the last time and not vestibular disease as was thought then. She is not nearly as bad as she was the last time and is already trying to stand. We will give her as much time as she needs and hopefully she will recover well. She is nearly 15 now.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sorry to hear this has happened again but hope she manages to rally


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

the
t
Thanks Rona,. I have my fingers crossed. I'm fairly confident she will get through it. I will keep you posted.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

No change in Poppy today.. Still can't stand but she does want to.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Went to the vet this morning to get some pain killers, incase this was what was stopping her from standing up. We gave her the pain killers and waited 30 mins. for them to kick in.. We then physically lifted her onto her feet, using her support hàrness, and she still wouldn't walk. She appears bright enough and is aware of her surroundings. Starting to get worried now.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Still early days. It must be harder the older and weaker they are


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Hope you see an improvement soon, my girl had a stroke last month she is a lot better but I doubt she will ever fully recover back to normal, she seems happy enough with life though and is blissful unaware that I am on a rollercoaster of emotions with her, up one day because she has had a good day, down the next because her legs seem weaker. It is so hard and you have my sympathy for what you are going through.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Poppy is barking a lot this morning. I have put her sling on her, but she is making no attempt to get up.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Day 6 .
Poppy still has a bad head tilt. She tried to get up last night but just couldn't manage it. I have given her a Stugeron tablet this morning which hopefully will help sort out her balance.problems. Fingers crossed.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Fingers crossed for some improvement today


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## Jackie Lee (Apr 16, 2018)

Praying for Poppy's fast recovery. Fingers crossed.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

She may be left with a bit of a head tilt. I have had two dogs that have had 'strokes' and both were left with a tilt. One died from something else, the other was put down after her 3rd stroke as she was pretty much out of it.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Day 7
No change in Poppy.. Still unable to get up yesterday. I guess she is going to take her time again. 

Thanks for all your kind wishes.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Day 8

No change in Poppy yesterday. Fingers crossed for today.


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

How is Poppy today?


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Day 9

Poppy is very agitated this morning. It is as if she has just realised she has a problem. We have tried to get her up to non avail. If she can stand that would be a step in the right direction. I think the small amount of muscle tone she had is no longer there. Does anyone know of a site where they show how to do some physio on her, which may help. I wouldn't want to do it wrong.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Day 10.
Poppy did try to get up yesterday. We sat her up then when we lifted her rear end her front legs just gave way... We are at a loss as to how to help her. She is very agitated again this morning. Does anyone know if there is anything on the internet that. Will show me how to do some physio on her to help get the muscle tone back.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Hi. I'm sorry that there has been no improvement. 

I'm loathe to say this, but at her age and the time that she has now been down, could it possibly the time to say goodbye? 
I know it's hard to face but she obviously isn't happy and realistically, how is she going to be after this?


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Hi Rona,

Sadly I have come to the same conclusion.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Marj555 said:


> Hi Rona,
> 
> Sadly I have come to the same conclusion.


I'm so sorry. But I know you'll do what's best.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Marj555 said:


> Hi Rona,
> 
> Sadly I have come to the same conclusion.


I've been watching this thread but didn't feel able to offer any advice. When my old girl had a bad vestibular episode it was on top of other age related issues, and I thought she had been through enough so opted for euthanasia. If Poppy had been going to recover any function, it should have happened within the first couple of days. 
My sympathies.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Day 11.

The vet is coming out tomorrow. She will assess Poppy but weiwill probably be saying goodbye to her tomorrow. Poppy has been awake all day today ( which is unusual) and has tried to get up. I am still hopeful.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I'll be thinking of you


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Im sorry there has been no improvement, I`ll be thinking of you and Poppy tomorrow.


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

Poppy as left us. She will never be forgotten.


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

I`m so sorry Marj555.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm so sorry. You at least have the comfort of knowing that you gave her that final chance. Not much of a comfort now, but I'm sure it will be in time to come


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm so sorry for your loss,

Run Free Poppy X


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## Marj555 (Feb 10, 2017)

I miss her so much.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

I am so sorry for your loss - it is always heartbreaking 

J


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

She was a sweetheart. Im so sorry .


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