# What's wrong here?!



## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Ok so trying the dogmatic again after letting ruby get used to it again over time.
She seems more relaxed at wearing it.

Anyway I'm not happy with it.
I know some don't believe me when I say the dogmatic does stop the mouth from opening!
Look at her trying to pant with it on, she can only just open her mouth.
She wears the 3L which is measured to the correct fitting around her neck and nose. But she just can not open her mouth any wider than that.







Then without the head collar




Surely this can't be right?
Any looser around her neck and it's too big making it move around on her face.
The gentle leader I have although rides slightly in her eye allows her to open her mouth considerably more.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

And the loop that the lead is connected to is rather loose but when I start walking her if there is slight pressure from her the loop goes bigger making the strap under her chin tighten making her mouth lose even more!


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Not tried a dogmatic but it sounds odd, silly thing to ask but has it managed to get twisted or back to front at all? Only asking as the writing looks the wrong way up and manufacturers don't like that!
I have a feeling that Dogless uses this make....could be wrong.


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## staffgirl (May 1, 2013)

Not sure about the Dogmatic fit. I have had success with the fitting of this headcollar:

Products : Dogalter

You can adjust the size of it around the muzzle, as well as around the neck. It leads from a similar place as the Dogmatic and also doesn't have any bits that move or tighten, if you know what I mean? I use one when I want close control of my young golden retriever and it doesn't slip at all up to the eyes.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I use a gencon and it doesn't seem to cause any restriction on Dukes mouth.

Possibly not all head collars are comparable with all muzzle shapes.


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## chrissyganesh (Mar 3, 2010)

I have walked dogs with haltis and they hate them. Does your dog really need one or doesn't she mind it? I always found that they walk better with one of those harness round the chest things attached to the collar,: seems to have the same effect. 
Have to say also, what a beautiful dog you have!


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Its the right way on it wouldn't sit or clip right if it was inside out or any other way.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Thank you for the lovely comment 

Yes she does need one with me as she does pull though not to the extreme but especially when seeing any other dogs or small wild animals etc.
But with hubby she walks her on a slip rope with no issues she walks right beside him the lead is slack.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

It looks too small to me, I would try the next size up. I had to try a couple of sizes before I got one that fit Thai properly.

I will say tho that the dogmatic (as with any head collar) isn't for every dog, you may have to try a few before you get the right one for you and Ruby 

Have you tried a front clip harness like the perfect fit or mekuti?


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## loopylori (Feb 10, 2014)

Titan has a dogmatic and he can open his mouth very wide,it doesn't restrict him at all. I know they do lots of sizes for different shaped dogs. Personally I would email dogmatic and send the pictures and see what they say. I have never had a problem with them,I am sure they would be willing to help,advise etc.
When it works properly the dogmatic is fab.








not the best view of dogmatic but you can see titan enjoying an icecream with it on.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

But the 3L is recommended for german shepherds actually because she's a bitch it says on there web site a size 3 for gsd bitches. 
If I went to sz4 it would be way too big around her neck as its on the tightest on the 3L. Any looser and the whole head collar moves around on her face so a bigger one will just be massive on her.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

delca1 said:


> Not tried a dogmatic but it sounds odd, silly thing to ask but has it managed to get twisted or back to front at all? Only asking as the writing looks the wrong way up and manufacturers don't like that!
> I have a feeling that Dogless uses this make....could be wrong.


Not used one for around a year or so; but do rate them - I stopped as it seemed to increase Kilo's reactivity post attack (head restraint when he is faced with a dog I suspect). The one in the pictures from the OP does look too small - Kilo could pant, carry a toy, eat and drink and it didn't pull his mouth shut either.

OP maybe the Dogmatic just isn't the one for your dog for some reason? If you look at other head collars I'd avoid those with unlimited tightening potential. Or you could consider a harness? I use a Mekuti https://www.mekuti.co.uk/harness_only.htm on both of mine and I can effectively stop Kilo lunging in one.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

blade100 said:


> But the 3L is recommended for german shepherds actually because she's a bitch it says on there web site a size 3 for gsd bitches.
> If I went to sz4 it would be way too big around her neck as its on the tightest on the 3L. Any looser and the whole head collar moves around on her face so a bigger one will just be massive on her.


Doesn't really matter what is recommended, that one is too small lol
If the next size is too big then I would say the dogmatic may not be for Ruby.

I would either look at other head collars, or better still some front clip harnesses.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Flynns one has plenty of room for his mouth to open but then he has a very large neck circumference, so maybe that's why, because the size is bigger to incorporate the size of his neck. That's the only thing I can think of as Mals necks are wider than their actual head - if that makes sense.


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## Jodfblue (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi, we have a 3L for our dog Cracker, a retriever/collie cross - his muzzle looks a similar size. He can carry a ball while wearing it, drink and eat training treats. 

I'm not sure, but from the first photo, it looks like the bottom loop is caught/wrapped around the bit that goes under the chin - Cracker's loop hangs considerable lower than that.

Otherwise, I'd agree with the post that suggests emailing the photos to dogmatic for advice. Hope you sort it!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

As the strap under the jaw has plenty of slack, why can't she open her mouth further? It could just be that she's keeping her mouth more closed because she's not used to the sensation of something there. It doesn't look too small to me.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

This is Thai in his 3L, you should be able to see how big the loop is under his jaw. He can pant and carry toys with his on.

The loop on Ruby's doesn't look as loose (granted Thai isn't panting in this pic but there is still a noticeable loop even if he is)


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## Acer (Feb 27, 2014)

I had issues with the Dogmatic too, a small male Retriever who was supposed to be a 3L, but measured a 4. I went for a size 4 because of his measurements but it was too large and the side rings hung down too far. 








I sent it back but decided not to exchange for the smaller size as he didn't fall within the measurements and didn't want to get another one that turned out to be too small.

I went to [email protected] and took a punt on their headcollar, just went for a large. It has a good adjustable range for the neck, and as big as necessary for the muzzle. 








As you can see, only an inch hangs down normally, 2 inches when he pulls, but it has those 2 inches to leave space for panting/eating and he is much happier now (he wouldn't even take a treat before as he couldn't chew it properly, now I can reward as I go).


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Acer said:


> I had issues with the Dogmatic too, a small male Retriever who was supposed to be a 3L, but measured a 4. I went for a size 4 because of his measurements but it was too large and the side rings hung down too far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm a bit confused as to how a head collar that you claim to be too big stopped him from being able to eat treats  Especially as the head collar that is now used actually clamps the mouth shut when in use, when the dogmatic does not clamp unless you want it too.

Not every head collar works for every dog, and I am not picking at your choice (mainly because it is yours to make at the end of the day ) but I would say the more likely reason your dog did not eat treats in the dogmatic is because of lack of conditioning or simply just that he found it aversive rather than him not being able to open his mouth.

FWIW the dogmatic looks fine to me, if you look at my picture the rings are supposed hang like that.


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## Acer (Feb 27, 2014)

Hi - sorry that was a bit misleading on my part. I originally tried the Dogmatic to replace a very tight Gencon all in 1 (the one that stopped him eating treats - I managed to miss out a large chunk of that story!). The pets at home followed after both. 
Didn't actually walk him on the Dogmatic as it was so big I could fit my hand under the neck part even on the tightest setting, so I worried about it coming off if he backed up. Also the nose band dropped down to the end of his nose when he lowered his head.
I could have tried a smaller size but neither of his measurements (13" nose and 20" neck) fit within the 3L sizings.
Anyway I hope Ruby finds a well-fitting head collar soon - From my experience it is a bit of trial and error as to what suits


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Ahh that makes sense now


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