# KItten buyers.....too good to be true?



## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Heres the scenario....you recieve a phone call from a very well to do lady medical proffessional enquirying about your kittens of which you have three unreserved.....she tells you that she is looking for a pair from the same litter and must be a sibling pair as she has always had her Siamese in pairs and wants the special bond between them that comes with siblings....you ask all the important questions.....the answers you get are great so you invite the lady round to see the litter.

Lady arrives with very well to do husband, also medical proffessional and grown up son.....kittens are brought in and lady says to husband "Shall we take all three then?.....when I crack a joke about thought it was only me that wanted three Siamese underfoot she smiles and explains that one is for her brother in Ireland, he saw my ad first so she has come to get one for him too.

Explanation is given that no kittens leave our home without me personally vetting and meeting potential owners and that brother in Ireland would be better off approaching local breeders to him if he is looking for a kitten himself. To be sure that I am being understood on this point I then explain that only two kittens can leave me together.....lady smiles again and says yes thats fine - she will keep one and send one to her brother, its all arranged his wife will come and collect the kitten and they will give her the little girl! Feeling I am not being understood on the point of third parties getting one of my kittens I draw the visit to a close and they leave.

I sit and ponder after they have gone why they would be so hell bent on getting a kitten for someone else even considering just taking one themselves when she was so insistant they wanted two together? 

I felt something was off kilter from them first arriving and it was a definite gut feeling that I always go with.....bothered me so much I spend the night emailing friends with litters to warn them if these people pop up be careful.

JUst wanted to share and see if others in breeding community agree with me that a potential owner has to meet the kitten and me to check that they are right for my kitten and my kitten is right for them.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't like the sound of that at all and would be worried. At the very least the lady's brother could have phoned you himself to ask. It sounds very odd that she should then say she would let her brother have one of the pair when she wanted two


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Follow your instincts .... every time

Those people would be told a flat out no from me (not that im a breeder , but if I were that would be my answer)


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

Call me cynical but I suspect both kittens would be sold on to the highest bidder ....

Go with your gut and say no.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Sometimes, people are just clueless and don´t understand why you must meet the new or potential owners first. 

Can´t really blame them. The purebred world tends to be a little.. closed off. Not all breeder websites state exactly what is expected of the owners. Personally for me, if I weren´t involved in the breeding world or had not adopted a pedigree not too long ago, I would probably ask my brother/friend/parent/whatever to speak to the breeder if they lived nearby or are acquainted in some way! 

Now, obviously I don´t know the exact situation and there must be a reason why your instincts are saying no way, so just follow it. 

Regarding selling the kittens to the highest bidder..that would be quite impossible if the OP is a breeder (thus, the kittens are probably already expensive and it wouldn´t really be possible to earn much more).


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks for your replies, its really helped - I usually weed out potential owners by lengthy telephone interogation before they even get a chance to set foot in the door but these got under the radar so to speak and it unsettled me.

I do ensure all new owners sign kitten contract stating quite clearly that if any change of ownership or rehoming occurs I must be consulted and in a rehoming issue the cat/kitten must come back to me and not burden a rescue but I honestly felt these people would use their copy of that contract to wipe their backsides on!!!

They left last night with me refusing to take deposits or continue to discuss the kittens further and after sleeping on it and your replies I have not rethought as they had asked me to and wouldnt believe any assurances that they are now just looking for a kitten or pair of kittens for themselves.

There was something very fishy going on - lots of condecending smiles and looks between husband and wife as I refused to play ball......maybe they thought it was like a trip to Morrisons and they could grab an extra one off the kitten shelf!!!!

Forgot to mention they also asked if my 4 month Seal Tabby boy was for sale when he came to say hello so who knows maybe they were after even more?


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Just as an afterthought - I am in the East Yorkshire area and have contacted anyone local that I know with litters just to give a heads up but if this lovely lady GP and husband Surgeon pop up anywhere else or move away from Siamese loking for at least 2 kittens would people let me know.

Would be interested to know.

Many thanks.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Soupie said:


> Call me cynical but I suspect both kittens would be sold on to the highest bidder ....
> 
> Go with your gut and say no.


Do people do that? I've never heard that one before. Why would someone buy a kitten _for a higher price_ from some prick rather than contacting a good reputable owner?
Forgive me I'm unfamiliar with the concept as that sort of things just doesn't happen around here.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

Thank you for the warning post, it is an odd situation and I don't know what their motivation was. However, if something seems odd it usually is and I think you are right to act on your instincts. Perhaps they were using their credibility to do the dodgy bankers draft thing and were hoping to pay nothing for the kittens and resell them, but it does seem a lot of effort to go to. 

I don't think it stange for them to look at a kitten on behalf of a relative, but it is an odd reaction to your response and they seemed quite pushy. If it is a new scam I expect it will soon become obvious, but either way you would never settle if you had let a kitten go with them so you were right to refuse in my opinion.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Yo have to follow your instincts - funny thing is that I have quite a few enquiries but in my return email I mention that I will probably early neuter - it's quite amazing how many never get in contact again!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Regarding selling the kittens to the highest bidder..that would be quite impossible if the OP is a breeder (thus, the kittens are probably already expensive and it wouldn´t really be possible to earn much more)


Except that at least one high end pet shop buys in at breeder prices and sells on at huge profit to people with more money than sense AND one very dubious chain does exactly the same selling at about twice the going rate.

The first sells to people who think they're getting something over and above the norm because of the name over the shop door. The customers in the second establishment seem to be those who don't wish to meet breeders and are prepared to pay a huge premium to be able to walk out of a shop with no questions asked. I have had dealings with customers of both establishments who are then terribly surprised to find they can neither show, nor are they welcome at stud with their 'pedigree' cats. They never consider it their own fault to be in this position but blame the breed clubs, the GCCF, anyone but themselves.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

Every day is a school day on Pet Forum, I learn so much. Havoc's info makes so much sense in this context, GCCF rules forbid selling to pet shops (I think - but right minded people wouldn't in any case) so possibly there are buyers around who are not who they say they are, sourcing kittens for these outlets. Good to be aware of and even more reason to trust my instincts if something doesn't quite sit right. 

Thanks for posting the info, I'm less naive than I was yesterday now.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> GCCF rules forbid selling to pet shops


Which is why the high end establishment always claimed when questioned that they were only 'acting as agents' for the breeder. It's no secret that this place has a pet dept. and they have to get them from somewhere. It is a fair few years since I've had any direct contact but definitely around 2006/7 when pedigree kittens were costing approx £350, even the chain was selling unvaccinated Siamese kittens at £500-£600. They were sent out with a voucher for vaccs. What's even more astounding was that people were paying it.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

HeartofClass said:


> Do people do that? I've never heard that one before. Why would someone buy a kitten _for a higher price_ from some prick rather than contacting a good reputable owner?
> Forgive me I'm unfamiliar with the concept as that sort of things just doesn't happen around here.


Yes there was a lady doing this in the Midlands recently - buying kittens and then selling them on for a profit within days. Many people got caught out :-( Sadly it's not fanciful there really are people like this about.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Sadly it's not fanciful there really are people like this about


True. To some buyers there is a perceived value, ie the more I pay the better it must be.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

HeartofClass said:


> Do people do that? I've never heard that one before. Why would someone buy a kitten _for a higher price_ from some prick rather than contacting a good reputable owner?
> Forgive me I'm unfamiliar with the concept as that sort of things just doesn't happen around here.


If they sent them abroad, where they are perhaps rarer, they might get a huge profit.

OP did you ask them their occupations or did they volunteer the information? If the latter, then alarm bells would ring for me. Anyone can hire a posh car for a day, and I definitely would not be trusting people who keep changing their story.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!

Just out of interest, restrictions can be put on pedigree puppies so that they cannot be sent or taken abroad; can you do the same for pedigree cats?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> restrictions can be put on pedigree puppies so that they cannot be sent or taken abroad; can you do the same for pedigree cats?


I'm not aware of any such scheme for cats and I don't know how one could be enforced. Animals are 'property' in English law so the rightful owner generally has the right to do as they please and take them wherever they want. How does it work with dogs? Is there some register kept at ports etc. of microchip details?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

havoc said:


> I'm not aware of any such scheme for cats and I don't know how one could be enforced. Animals are 'property' in English law so the rightful owner generally has the right to do as they please and take them wherever they want. How does it work with dogs? Is there some register kept at ports etc. of microchip details?


I only know of someone who used to put restrictions on her pug puppies so that they couldn't be taken abroad without her lifting that restriction. I don't know how it worked, but I do know that someone who had bought one of her pups a few months later wanted to sell him to someone in Germany and had to ask her to lift the restriction, which she refused to do.

I don't know the details I'm afraid, not being a breeder. Perhaps it works a bit like breeding restrictions in that they can't actually register the puppies without the restriction being lifted.

I'm sure one of the good dog breeders will know the answer.


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

You did the right thing, we would have turned them down after that story too, always go with gut feeling.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

> OP did you ask them their occupations or did they volunteer the information? If the latter, then alarm bells would ring for me. Anyone can hire a posh car for a day, and I definitely would not be trusting people who keep changing their story.


The occupations bit was more than volunteered by them during the first telephone contact.....the hubby even arrived with a stethoscope around his neck!!!!!

No joke - thought it a bit odd.

Did once have someone bring their Mum who was a vet, she asked me if she could have a 'closer look at Mum' who was sat on the windowsill, I agreed and she carried her through to the dining room table and gave her a full once over, eyes, ears, mouth and teeth,full physical exam, questions about vaccs and medical history inc previous litters, what the birth was like, toilet habits, diet and weaning regimes, worming schdules, FIV Felv status/Corona Virus status/etc etc.....the daughter was lovely and reserved the kitten which I took as a compliment that we had passed the benchmark.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> the hubby even arrived with a stethoscope around his neck!!!!!


That would have guaranteed them as fakes to me and not very intelligent ones at that. As props go it's way too obvious


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

lisajjl1 said:


> The occupations bit was more than volunteered by them during the first telephone contact.....the hubby even arrived with a stethoscope around his neck!!!!!
> 
> No joke - thought it a bit odd.
> 
> Did once have someone bring their Mum who was a vet, she asked me if she could have a 'closer look at Mum' who was sat on the windowsill, I agreed and she carried her through to the dining room table and gave her a full once over, eyes, ears, mouth and teeth,full physical exam, questions about vaccs and medical history inc previous litters, what the birth was like, toilet habits, diet and weaning regimes, worming schdules, FIV Felv status/Corona Virus status/etc etc.....the daughter was lovely and reserved the kitten which I took as a compliment that we had passed the benchmark.


That's one BIG Benchmark....


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I agreed and she carried her through to the dining room table and gave her a full once over, eyes, ears, mouth and teeth,full physical exam,


I'd agree too - *after *I'd been given details of where she trained, when she qualified and had chance to look her up and check she was what she said she was. Considering the gist of this thread I don't think background checks would be out of order.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

> That's one BIG Benchmark....


Yes I was quite surprised at the time but did make me think how many people focus on the kitten itself and and rarely ask questions about the Mum even though the kittens future health and temperament is directly linked to the health and wellbeing of the queen and early life.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

> I'd agree too - after I'd been given details of where she trained, when she qualified and had chance to look her up and check she was what she said she was. Considering the gist of this thread I don't think background checks would be out of order.


Too true but on this occasion it was the cover vet from a local practice and although I hadnt had many dealings with her apart from a brief conversation at the surgery when buying Cimicat when she mentioned her daughter was looking for a kitten and a couple of telephone conversations when my own vet was on holiday I was quite happy with who she said she was. Just goes to show the difference of non-internet enquiries.

Your reply made me think in light of my recent strange kitten veiwers - would you think it works to ask potential owners for a vets reference to confirm they are responsible pet owners and confirm address details etc. I usually ask for some form of address ID for the insurance details but would like to go further now especially in light of the info given on supply of kittens to stores.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

lisajjl1 said:


> The occupations bit was more than volunteered by them during the first telephone contact.....the hubby even arrived with a stethoscope around his neck!!!!!
> 
> No joke - thought it a bit odd.
> 
> Did once have someone bring their Mum who was a vet, she asked me if she could have a 'closer look at Mum' who was sat on the windowsill, I agreed and she carried her through to the dining room table and gave her a full once over, eyes, ears, mouth and teeth,full physical exam, questions about vaccs and medical history inc previous litters, what the birth was like, toilet habits, diet and weaning regimes, worming schdules, FIV Felv status/Corona Virus status/etc etc.....the daughter was lovely and reserved the kitten which I took as a compliment that we had passed the benchmark.


Definitely not doctors! How many doctors have you seen going around outside hospitals with a stethoscope round their necks? It sounds like those emails you get where they declare themselves good christians. Talk about OTT!

The vet lady was different, because you had seen her before and she obviously was a vet. You are well out of that one.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It doesn't do to get too obsessed. A scare like this worries you for a while but it should also make you more confident in your ability to read people  One thing I've always done is to take cheques, especially for deposits but even for full payment if I've got to know the buyer a little. I've never been stung yet though I accept the risk is there. Cash may be safer in terms of guaranteeing you're paid but a cheque has a name on it and proves the person is who they say they are.


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## Scarlett20 (Jul 31, 2011)

Just a thought - you could have taken her name, address and tel. no. 

You shouldn't have to do this, but perhaps a little detective work could have then been put into practice on your part.

Did they say how far they had come?


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

> Just a thought - you could have taken her name, address and tel. no.
> 
> You shouldn't have to do this, but perhaps a little detective work could have then been put into practice on your part.
> 
> Did they say how far they had come?


Yes definitly more detective work from now on did kick myself afterwards thinking must have missed something, have invested in a little book and pen by the phone, anyone with kittens will understand how many calls come through that amount to nothing but am now logging numbers and names and details of all calls....for future ref if people come back to me, formally I just kept a note of names and phone numbers that I felt were genuine calls and I would be hearing from them again.

They cant have been far away as on first phone call wanted to come straight away-I was at work so asked them to call me in the evening. Second call wanted to come half an hour later- I was stuck on a motorway so explained would have to be next day, third call probably because I felt I was being slightly unavailable and didnt suspect a problem at this stage I arranged for that evening....my boiler blew up about an hour before they arrived and I had a gas engineer here on their visit! Was glad I did, he was a cat lover who took pics of the kittens for his girlfriend to see and I'm sure would have acted in bouncer capacity if they hadnt have left when I asked them to.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

Well that's the first gas boiler repair man that's had a potential use - more often than not they're letting calling queens rush past them through the open front door it seems!!! 

Do Surgeons even use a stethoscope on a day to day basis? I would have though by the time they have you flat out on an operating table a stethoscope would be not much use. 

Best be on the look out for lawyers carrying gavels in their top pockets and policement with clearly fake walky talky's and hand cuffs!! 

Thank goodness for instinct as it seems you have had a lucky escape on this one.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

I think the germ factor alone proves that that stethoscope is not used by a qualified doctor or surgeon! It would be put in a box away instead of being worn into a stranger's house on a non-medical visit!!! 

It could only have been more "comical" if they turned up in scrubs....


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> it could only have been more "comical" if they turned up in scrubs....


Not often I truly laugh out loud at an internet post but this one worked


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Next thing you guys will be telling me the beeping in his pocket was a smoke alarm and not his emergency beeper!!!!!




Only joking - there was no beeping!


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

.......hoping for a fireman next time.....

Just thinking aloud! 

Thanks everyone whos replied, some great advice and support given.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

Oooooh do Firemen really buy kittens? I've never had a Fireman home a kitten - you've set the bar high now. I will refuse all others until the Fireman turns up in his uniform - though he will have to take his shirt off at the door - for hygiene's sake of course!!


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

> Oooooh do Firemen really buy kittens? I've never had a Fireman home a kitten - you've set the bar high now. I will refuse all others until the Fireman turns up in his uniform - though he will have to take his shirt off at the door - for hygiene's sake of course!!


Might be a bit chilly at the door and I have nosey neigbours so I'm going to get mine inside before I start to strip him!!!!!!!

...for hygienes sake of course as you mentioned.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

Fair play! You can never be too careful where hygiene is concerned!!!

:001_rolleyes:


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Erm - arent you people meant to be _discouraging_ people from breeding for less than very good reasons?? 

All this talk of firemen - its a good job mine have all been done!  :biggrin5:


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

You must have a better class of fireman in the UK :lol:. All the ones I've ever seen in the flesh (not the fantasy ones from the calendars) have been flabby and homely. And then there's the EMS guys--even worse!


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> You must have a better class of fireman in the UK :lol:. All the ones I've ever seen in the flesh (not the fantasy ones from the calendars) have been flabby and homely. And then there's the EMS guys--even worse!


"homely"
Great description, I'm going to use that phrase from now on


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