# Thrush Problem - Advice?



## RachJeremy

*(please no rude comments or nasty snipes, i'm genuinely asking for tips and advice or any people who've had similar problems. We are NOT mistreated this horse, he's spoiled to no end... He had bad thrush obviously, long before we got him! - thanks)*

*My friend recently got a horse which has not been treated properly at his old home, i'm now sharing this horse. I know about his old home and how he was treated and reasons i cannot state on here really...
We never really suspected thrush, because his feet were very dry and not smelly at all.

But for the 4 months we've had him, he's had really bad thrush. The farrier came to him a few weeks after we got him moved to the new yard and basically found thrush under the growth of the hoof. Where basically his feet were not cared for properly ages and ages ago, and the thrush had gone deep into his feet.
We're now able to see the thrush and smell it every now and then. 
He suggested hydrogen peroxide (spelling?), which we started straight away, every day. Gradually after time we started every other day. We tried a barrier type of product, but after the farrier told us to stop because it was blocking the thrush in , we've stopped that. He suggested we get some purple spray and scrub the feet, then apply purple spray. And hydrogen peroxide it on days where it seems worse.

But at the moment, it's varying a lot! One day his feet will be fine and won't smell or be as bad, then the next they do and clearly need attention. And the person i share him with today phoned me to let me know she'd found maggots in his feet!!! 
Our farrier has seen this before and is giving us amazing advice and really helping us. But it's worrying when this happens... As we are spending a lot of time just trying to get his feet back to normal. 

Anyone got any advice for me? Or had or had the same problem? I'm starting to think it may have caused a chronic case of thrush (i can't remember what that's called, off the top of my head i think it's 'canker' but i could be wrong?).
He's currently on deep litter, but having wet bedding taken out daily. He goes out during the day and stays in over night. 
He's prone to laminitis and has a very quick foot growth.

I am fully aware this could take a long time to heal up and cure if it isn't chronic. But i want to get some opinions and advice on it, as we're trying our best to fix this. 
*


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## Shady

erm... I'm not really too familiar with thrush in the hoof as I've never really dealt with it. Well, not the severe sort anyway. I mean basically they say that with thrush it's best to keep the feet picked out (at LEAST twice a day) to let the air circulate. Standing in anything wet is not going to help, weather it be in the field or in the stable, but that cannot really be helped. 

My friend uses a spray, it isn't the antiseptic purple spray (although I've been told thats good) but a special foot spray for ALL livestock. I believe it is used mainly on sheep for foot rot, but it is suitable for horses also. I just don't know what it's called  

I'm hoping that someone else comes along with some brilliant advice for you, because that's all I've got unfortunately. I hope you can get this sorted, because maggots of any kind are not nice.


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## Sled dog hotel

RachJeremy said:


> *(please no rude comments or nasty snipes, i'm genuinely asking for tips and advice or any people who've had similar problems. We are NOT mistreated this horse, he's spoiled to no end... He had bad thrush obviously, long before we got him! - thanks)*
> 
> *My friend recently got a horse which has not been treated properly at his old home, i'm now sharing this horse. I know about his old home and how he was treated and reasons i cannot state on here really...
> We never really suspected thrush, because his feet were very dry and not smelly at all.
> 
> But for the 4 months we've had him, he's had really bad thrush. The farrier came to him a few weeks after we got him moved to the new yard and basically found thrush under the growth of the hoof. Where basically his feet were not cared for properly ages and ages ago, and the thrush had gone deep into his feet.
> We're now able to see the thrush and smell it every now and then.
> He suggested hydrogen peroxide (spelling?), which we started straight away, every day. Gradually after time we started every other day. We tried a barrier type of product, but after the farrier told us to stop because it was blocking the thrush in , we've stopped that. He suggested we get some purple spray and scrub the feet, then apply purple spray. And hydrogen peroxide it on days where it seems worse.
> 
> But at the moment, it's varying a lot! One day his feet will be fine and won't smell or be as bad, then the next they do and clearly need attention. And the person i share him with today phoned me to let me know she'd found maggots in his feet!!!
> Our farrier has seen this before and is giving us amazing advice and really helping us. But it's worrying when this happens... As we are spending a lot of time just trying to get his feet back to normal.
> 
> Anyone got any advice for me? Or had or had the same problem? I'm starting to think it may have caused a chronic case of thrush (i can't remember what that's called, off the top of my head i think it's 'canker' but i could be wrong?).
> He's currently on deep litter, but having wet bedding taken out daily. He goes out during the day and stays in over night.
> He's prone to laminitis and has a very quick foot growth.
> 
> I am fully aware this could take a long time to heal up and cure if it isn't chronic. But i want to get some opinions and advice on it, as we're trying our best to fix this.
> *


What I know about horses you could probably write on the back of a postage stamp, however aromesse that make natural products for skin and various problems started out I believe mainly in equine products. The canine products are really good, just checked and they do a preparation thats anti bacterial and anti fungal for hoofs which sounds like its exactly for the problem that you have. Ive linked you so you can read up on it.
Aromafrog Hoof & Frog formula


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## Elles

If the horse has canker this is a different issue to thrush and extremely difficult to cure, the prognosis is poor in cases of canker. Canker will have a different appearance to thrush and although in the early stages can be mistaken for thrush, a biopsy will give the diagnosis.

If the horse has chronic thrush and is prone to laminitis this is a dietry issue. The horse's diet will need sorting out first. 

I would immediately stop with the peroxide unless you are seriously diluting the stuff. I have seen one case of thrush where the owner was told to syringe diluted hydrogen peroxide into the frogs which led to the condition becoming much worse, the frog eventually eaten away to nothing and horse eventually destroyed, as the foot suffered irreparable damage and even once the treatment was changed the foot couldn't recover.

I would recommend Red Horse Hoof Stuff to pack the infected frog. The foot needs to be trimmed in a balanced way and the frog flushed out and dried. You could use cotton wool balls to dry it out. You could also soak the foot no more than twice a week for 10 minutes in a solution of Milton, 1 capful to 5 litres. This will be a very mild treatment that shouldn't damage the live, healthy tissue.

An alternative to the Hoof Stuff would be sudocreme (baby nappy rash cream) though I don't like it as I'm allergic to it, or NAF MSM Ointment. If the frog has a deep central sulcus, you could pack the sudocreme or MSM ointment into it using cotton make-up pads, cotton wool, or gamgee.

The main thing is to address any dietry issues and make sure the hoof is balanced.

If you suspect Canker or the thrush isn't improving, please do call your vet, so that the cause can be properly investigated.

Deep litter wouldn't be recommended unless it's on bedding such as White Horse or other wood pellet type of bedding, as it will harbour the bugs that contribute to thrush. 

Hope this helps. 

ETA: When you say under the hoof growth, do you mean the wall or sole rather than the frog? Thrush is an infection of the frog and collateral grooves, if there's an infection under the wall and sole that would be white line disease (unless you have a serious Canker infection), in which case the Milton soak should help, gentian violet spray (purple spray, but the real stuff not just antiseptic) and plugging any cracks with Red Horse Hoof products. A serious white line infection would be best treated using a soaking boot and cleantrax. Again a good suitable diet, look up laminitis for advice on diet, clean suitable bedding and a good trim is essential. You may need to supplement with magnesium (high grade mag ox) and biotin. The horse may have a metabolic disorder, insulin resistance, or compromised liver. You would need bloods/hair samples taken for assessment.

Treating infection too aggressively can damage healthy tissue, so less can be more. 

Do you have pics?


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## RachJeremy

Elles said:


> If the horse has canker this is a different issue to thrush and extremely difficult to cure, the prognosis is poor in cases of canker. Canker will have a different appearance to thrush and although in the early stages can be mistaken for thrush, a biopsy will give the diagnosis.
> 
> If the horse has chronic thrush and is prone to laminitis this is a dietry issue. The horse's diet will need sorting out first.
> 
> I would immediately stop with the peroxide unless you are seriously diluting the stuff. I have seen one case of thrush where the owner was told to syringe diluted hydrogen peroxide into the frogs which led to the condition becoming much worse, the frog eventually eaten away to nothing and horse eventually destroyed, as the foot suffered irreparable damage and even once the treatment was changed the foot couldn't recover.
> 
> I would recommend Red Horse Hoof Stuff to pack the infected frog. The foot needs to be trimmed in a balanced way and the frog flushed out and dried. You could use cotton wool balls to dry it out. You could also soak the foot no more than twice a week for 10 minutes in a solution of Milton, 1 capful to 5 litres. This will be a very mild treatment that shouldn't damage the live, healthy tissue.
> 
> An alternative to the Hoof Stuff would be sudocreme (baby nappy rash cream) though I don't like it as I'm allergic to it, or NAF MSM Ointment. If the frog has a deep central sulcus, you could pack the sudocreme or MSM ointment into it using cotton make-up pads, cotton wool, or gamgee.
> 
> The main thing is to address any dietry issues and make sure the hoof is balanced.
> 
> If you suspect Canker or the thrush isn't improving, please do call your vet, so that the cause can be properly investigated.
> 
> Deep litter wouldn't be recommended unless it's on bedding such as White Horse or other wood pellet type of bedding, as it will harbour the bugs that contribute to thrush.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> ETA: When you say under the hoof growth, do you mean the wall or sole rather than the frog? Thrush is an infection of the frog and collateral grooves, if there's an infection under the wall and sole that would be white line disease (unless you have a serious Canker infection), in which case the Milton soak should help, gentian violet spray (purple spray, but the real stuff not just antiseptic) and plugging any cracks with Red Horse Hoof products. A serious white line infection would be best treated using a soaking boot and cleantrax. Again a good suitable diet, look up laminitis for advice on diet, clean suitable bedding and a good trim is essential. You may need to supplement with magnesium (high grade mag ox) and biotin. The horse may have a metabolic disorder, insulin resistance, or compromised liver. You would need bloods/hair samples taken for assessment.
> 
> Treating infection too aggressively can damage healthy tissue, so less can be more.
> 
> Do you have pics?


Thank you so much! This is really helpful. We got the advice for hydrogen peroxide from the farrier and an experienced friend who's horse has the same problem as ours, and she at first used un-diluted, then once it improved she diluted it.

But i'll give some of your other suggestions a try.

I can try and get some pictures today, if not you'll have to wait till friday when i have my boyfriend at the yard with me. As today i'm on my own with the horses, so will be treating his feet on my own.

I feel like the thrush has got worse lately, as he moved to a new yard, and we placed in 5-6 bales (i can't remember exactly) of clean shavings, and he is a very clean horse... And we never were able to find much wet, if we did it was instantly taken out because of the thrush. And because we knew a horse in the stable he is in now was moving, we didn't want to make a base. Now he's moved to the new stable, the old layer of deep litter for that horse was left in, and i feel that may have made it worse... Me and my friend are toying with the idea of taking a lot of it out. And i might suggest we put him on full muckout and maybe if we split the cost of some rubber matting for him or something. :\ he's definitely clean enough to be on a full muckout.

Thank you so much again for your advice


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## Elles

Hope you find something in there that works for him. 

The problem with hydrogen peroxide is that it bubbles away nicely looking as though it's doing the trick and to some degree it is. Unfortunately it's pretty aggressive and will damage healthy tissue as well as kill some of the bugs. A couple of goes with it shouldn't cause permanent damage, especially if the thrush is new, but the damaged tissue is now more prone to attack from the bugs and by using hydrogen peroxide the owner can be continuing an infection that should have cleared up and actually encouraging the infection to travel deeper into the foot.

Many shod horses do have a degree of thrush, as once shod, the frog is usually no longer stimulated and can become prone to infection, especially if the heels are allowed to become overlong and contracted, so thrush isn't uncommon.

A healthy horse with healthy hooves can fight off infection, but if the horse's diet isn't quite right, maybe too much sugar for example, or if the horse becomes ill where the immune system is having to work overtime, the hoof can be compromised and laid open to infections such as thrush and white line disease.

Just mentioning it to reassure you that it's not always down to neglectful owners, it can be owners being over enthusiastic with cleaning, so no-one should be rude to you about it. 

Give an owner liberally applying hydrogen peroxide to an enthusiastically trimmed frog and unfortunately sometimes you can be asking for trouble.


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## RachJeremy

Elles said:


> Hope you find something in there that works for him.
> 
> The problem with hydrogen peroxide is that it bubbles away nicely looking as though it's doing the trick and to some degree it is. Unfortunately it's pretty aggressive and will damage healthy tissue as well as kill some of the bugs. A couple of goes with it shouldn't cause permanent damage, especially if the thrush is new, but the damaged tissue is now more prone to attack from the bugs and by using hydrogen peroxide the owner can be continuing an infection that should have cleared up and actually encouraging the infection to travel deeper into the foot.
> 
> Many shod horses do have a degree of thrush, as once shod, the frog is usually no longer stimulated and can become prone to infection, especially if the heels are allowed to become overlong and contracted, so thrush isn't uncommon.
> 
> A healthy horse with healthy hooves can fight off infection, but if the horse's diet isn't quite right, maybe too much sugar for example, or if the horse becomes ill where the immune system is having to work overtime, the hoof can be compromised and laid open to infections such as thrush and white line disease.
> 
> Just mentioning it to reassure you that it's not always down to neglectful owners, it can be owners being over enthusiastic with cleaning, so no-one should be rude to you about it.
> 
> Give an owner liberally applying hydrogen peroxide to an enthusiastically trimmed frog and unfortunately sometimes you can be asking for trouble.


Thanks again  In regard to his diet, it is something we have changed since owning him. He was originally on 1/2 feeds a day of pony nuts (pegasus cubes), chaff (not sure which but it was dengie alfa a or hi fi) and sugar beet, along with going out during the lush spring grass... Which wasn't helping with him being laminitic. 
When we moved with him we fully changed his diet and he was kept in for a long time as we didn't actually have space on the new yard for him yet. So he was changed gradually over to dodsen and horrel's 'safe and sound' feed, with a few carrots, parsnips, apples and/or banana added in as a treat. He has been given late cut hay with no nutritional benefit. 
Only in the last month or so he started going out bit by bit, and now he goes out during the day and in at night. 
He's improved greatly already since we owned him. I knew him in his previous home, as did his new owner, and he was always very short in his stride and 'hobbly', he's now getting a lot more natural in his striding and not so hobbly. He's getting hind shoes now, as well as fronts, but only to correct his back legs, as he was wonky and a bit crocked, and that's kind of helping him to sort himself out and move like a normal horse aswell. 
He will eventually be put back onto fronts only. And he gets shod every 5 weeks as he has a really fast growth rate on his feet.

Thank you again! I done his feet today (sorry no pictures) and they look a great deal better, i scrubbed them clean and applied a tiny bit of purple spray as suggested by the farrier. But for the rest of the week, i'm going to look into various other treatments, and i will probably try the sudocrem, as we have several tubs of that laying around. 

Thank you!!!


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## Elles

You've probably guessed by now that I'm a bit of a hoof geek.  Most people look at horses and notice a pretty colour or a cute face, I look at feet. 

It sounds as though you're well on the right track. :yesnod: If you still have problems there's probably a couple of tweaks you can do. Carrots can be a problem for some horses and, depending on your area, magnesium is usually too low in most areas of the UK. It might be worth your supplementing with magnesium especially in the Autumn (if there's a flush and he's out) and Spring.

I usually use the £12.99 one from here:

Natural Horse Supplies - Magnesium Supplements

info here:

Natural Horse Supplies - Magnesium Oxide (Heavy) 900g £12.99


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## RachJeremy

Elles said:


> You've probably guessed by now that I'm a bit of a hoof geek.  Most people look at horses and notice a pretty colour or a cute face, I look at feet.
> 
> It sounds as though you're well on the right track. :yesnod: If you still have problems there's probably a couple of tweaks you can do. Carrots can be a problem for some horses and, depending on your area, magnesium is usually too low in most areas of the UK. It might be worth your supplementing with magnesium especially in the Autumn (if there's a flush and he's out) and Spring.
> 
> I usually use the £12.99 one from here:
> 
> Natural Horse Supplies - Magnesium Supplements
> 
> info here:
> 
> Natural Horse Supplies - Magnesium Oxide (Heavy) 900g £12.99


Seriously cannot thank you enough for your advice! And i know what you mean about people like that, that don't really seem to care much about feet... Unfortunately its the reason my horse is like this really. Several years of 'neglect' on his feet. 
£12.99 isn't bad!


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## RachJeremy

Hey, just posting that i shall get some photos today, as my boyfriend is down the yard with me tonight, i shall get him to hold his feet whilst i take photos. 

I have also been looking into possibly buying some rubber matting for him. Which i will need to discuss with my friend. Which i feel may be easier done when we talk to each other next in person, as we go out every other thursday evening, so in two weeks pretty much :\ But i will be taking a lot out of his bed tonight in hope that it will help. 
I think i may even mention the idea of him going onto a full muckout, as he isn't actually messy at all. So it probably would cost us a bale or two a week with him.


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## RachJeremy

Here are pictures of his right front and hind feet. Didn't want to bore you with pictures of all four, since they all look the same. 
These were taken before scrubbing and purple spraying them.


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## Elles

Really hard to see anything in the pics.  The fore shoe looks to have been applied twisted which could be the angle of the pic, and the frog overtrimmed, which again could be the angle of the pic and the shadows. Both heels are obscured by hair, so I can't see what's happening there. The hind frog looks as though it may have prolapsed, I can't see a central sulcus, but that could be the hair getting in the way.

Does he dish or plait in front and stub his hind toes?

There looks as though there might be a crumbly bit at the toes on both feet, though it just be dirt. What do his feet look like from the top? Are there any cracks/splits and/or black lines around and running up from the nails?

On the whole the pictures make the feet look not too bad at all tbh.


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## RachJeremy

Elles said:


> Really hard to see anything in the pics.  The fore shoe looks to have been applied twisted which could be the angle of the pic, and the frog overtrimmed, which again could be the angle of the pic and the shadows. Both heels are obscured by hair, so I can't see what's happening there. The hind frog looks as though it may have prolapsed, I can't see a central sulcus, but that could be the hair getting in the way.
> 
> Does he dish or plait in front and stub his hind toes?
> 
> There looks as though there might be a crumbly bit at the toes on both feet, though it just be dirt. What do his feet look like from the top? Are there any cracks/splits and/or black lines around and running up from the nails?
> 
> On the whole the pictures make the feet look not too bad at all tbh.


He is having corrective shoeing on his hind feet, as his conformation was making him walk dodgy behind. He will be loosing his hind shoes eventually once it's fixed that. 
But no he doesn't dish or plait, or at least not massively. He does with his hinds because of his conformation, but that's being corrected with his hind shoes. 
Sorry the pictures aren't that great, he's a fidget with his feet and has a habit of snatching them out of your hands, which does make treating them difficult sometimes. 
But his feet are looking better, and even whilst thrush was obvious they were rather dry, just really smelly. Today his feet seemed ok, they didn't smell at all. So i think the purple spray is working...

I even took out a load of the deep litter out of his bed, the majority left behind from the horse before, and have left the top layer of the bed up, in hope the bottom layer of the bed will sort of dry up during the day, as we'll be up later on tonight, and i can have another sort out of it then. 
But i'm again looking into rubber matting and putting him on a full muckout.


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## Elles

:thumbup:

I'm sure he'll come right with all the work you're putting in.


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## RachJeremy

It's shocking how a sudden outburst of rain over the last two days have changed his feet! He had evident thrush in his feet today, to the point where it looked bad and sore. I took pictures but we're he kept snatching his feet away, it's difficult to see it properly. 
I'm sort of hoping it's a good thing it's getting worse now, as it means we're getting the thrush that's built up out of his feet. 
We have the farrier out again soon, and he's going to take a closer look at his feet for us, as he'll know better what to do in person and whether we need to get a vet out or something. I have a bad feeling, but i'm hoping all this work we're doing is paying off.


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## Elles

Aww, I'm sorry to read this. It certainly sounds as though there's more to it than just thrush. A couple of days of rain shouldn't really have this effect.


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## RachJeremy

Elles said:


> Aww, I'm sorry to read this. It certainly sounds as though there's more to it than just thrush. A couple of days of rain shouldn't really have this effect.


That's what i'm thinking... I'm hoping it wasn't as bad as it looked, or just a bad day... I know he's a whimp sometimes, especially with his feet, so he could have just been making a mountain out of a molehill, but that one food looked especially sore yesterday. :\


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## Merenwenrago

What my mentor does to fix thrush problems in hooves is to use apple juice with vinegar in drip bags and then to duck tape it on their hooves and works effectively. We left it on for an hour if I remember right per day and we did it while washing him.

This is what we did for my horse Silver who had it last week in the hooves and we don't have horse-shoes on our horses here.

Is he a Shetland pony or another breed of horse?


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## Elles

> apple juice with vinegar


Do you mean cider vinegar? It can be a good soak for thrush or white-line disease, if it's not too severe.


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## Merenwenrago

Elles said:


> Do you mean cider vinegar? It can be a good soak for thrush or white-line disease, if it's not too severe.


yes apple cider vinegar


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## RachJeremy

Update on Boycie. We had the vet out the other day. Obviously i wasn't there, as i'm only there three days a week. Will be today. Where his owner who i share with will show me how we're treating his feet now...

The vet came and had a look, and because he kept rearing up on us as well, she sedated him. She took his shoes off and ended up spending a long time cutting away his feet. She said she was happy to do so much to his feet because he has a very fast foot growth (he gets shod every 4-5 weeks). And we've been told to treat it with regular washing out with water, then putting in some iodine. Obviously i'll know more about how it needs to be done once i get to the yard tonight. But at the moment, he is finally thrush free!!! Just has less foot and apparently a wonky feather where she cut some of his hair away XD. 
He is now going to be shod with Bar Shoes for some time until his heels heal up. As the thrush had caused the heel to crack and separate. So the farrier will be coming out soon to measure his feet, and come out to put on some Bar Shoes.

So hopefully this means he is on the mend. And like i said to my friend, we will be treating it very, very well now. And hopefully this means we will have his feet under control, as like the vet said, what we were doing was right in some sense, but what we were doing wouldn't have made it better or got rid of it, so it was a good thing we called her out when we did. 
But now, hopefully it's all under control. His feet will be kept incredibly clean from now on, especially in mine and my friends care. 

Thought i'd keep you guys updated on it all.


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## RachJeremy

And because he's such a special boy i went out an brought him some Likit treats, with the holder... Of which i didn't realise i had brought the wrong licks for the holder and ended up going to another shop to buy the right ones >.< This horse is literally spoilt!


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## RachJeremy

He managed to destroy his likit toy.. >.< Luckily not the holder, just dug his teeth into the apple flavoured treat and had most of it within 10 minutes.
This boy i very spoiled, but very happy  All is going a lot better with his feet. We were really worried about the price of the shoes, so i don't know what's happening with that at the moment, as it will cost us £240 per shoeing!!! And if he needs it for 3 or more months, we may not be able to afford it.  But with proper treatment of his heels he should be fine. And judging by how he's being now, currently barefoot, we might keep him barefoot on all fours in time... Who knows. Only time will tell. 
This is him yesterday after a pampering of mane and tail conditioner and coat shine conditioner, along with a nice trim round his hairy face, he now looks even more handsome, and everything is on the up  So thanks guys for your help, we're looking into adding needed things to his diet and a new shoeing plan.


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## Elles

It is usually easier to fix the feet barefoot in my experience. Getting at infection is easier without shoes in the way, stimulation of the hoof and frog is easier without shoes blocking it. Boots and pads can offer stimulation if a horse is uncomfortable on stones etc. If you were to do your research and find sympathetic help you could find that he improves more quickly without going down the bar shoes road. 

A friend's horse just recently suffered quite extensive white line disease, the foot crumbling and cracking away, she kept losing shoes. Four weeks without them, attacking the infection and a change of diet, she now has much better feet and her shoes back on.

All of mine are barefoot though, so I do have some bias.


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## Amy-manycats

How is he doing now?


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