# Baby killed by terrier



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I expect most people have seen the sad news on tv today about the 3 week old baby killed by a tiny terrier, but didnt say what breed, the little dog will be destroiyed now, again by the sound of the report a human error, and the dog suffers again, 
The report said the little dog usually lived outside which seems strange for a tiny dog, the neighbours say it was a good natured dog,and it was apparently used to other children,
A 30 year old man was arrested, and the mum was said to have come back late from a family bereavment, and the baby was found dead at 4-15 am
Sad story but also sorry for the dog,probably heard the baby crying and thought it was another animal, but not supposed to have been in the house


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> I expect most people have seen the sad news on tv today about the 3 week old baby killed by a tiny terrier, but didnt say what breed, the little dog will be destroiyed now, again by the sound of the report a human error, and the dog suffers again,
> The report said the little dog usually lived outside which seems strange for a tiny dog, the neighbours say it was a good natured dog,and it was apparently used to other children,
> A 30 year old man was arrested, and the mum was said to have come back late from a family bereavment, and the baby was found dead at 4-15 am
> Sad story but also sorry for the dog,probably heard the baby crying and thought it was another animal, but not supposed to have been in the house


The dog suffers........................

Try to save some of that compassion for the dead baby would you?


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I think above all else we all feel very sad about the baby but that doesn't mean you can't feel for the dog who probably saw the baby as a squeaky toy and will no doubt be put to sleep. Unfortunately, some people learn very hard lessons from their mistakes and the message is 'never leave a dog alone with a very young child'.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sunderland-dog-attack-devastated-mother-5921296

Patterdale terrier - very strong prey drive.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The majority of responsible dog owners have foresight.

Irrespective of breed any dog can kill, which is something I have said in the past. It's very sad a tiny baby died because its parents couldn't adequately protect him. The dog will also pay the ultimate price with its life.

There are many questions I would need answers to in this case before I comment any further.


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## Olla (Jun 21, 2015)

It s a very sad story, I am very sorry for a baby but I am also sorry for this dog too. I think that people are responsible for dogs behaviour and people are also responsible for their children. How someone can live a baby alone?
very very sad story


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Olla said:


> . How someone can live a baby alone?
> very very sad story


Evidently you have never had a baby.

If you had you would know that actually it is often necessary to leave them alone unless of course you take them into the toilet with you every time you need to go, the bathroom when you need a shower, the kitchen when you are cooking, the garden when you are taking the garbage out.................................


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## Olla (Jun 21, 2015)

smokeybear said:


> Evidently you have never had a baby.
> 
> If you had you would know that actually it is often necessary to leave them alone unless of course you take them into the toilet with you every time you need to go, the bathroom when you need a shower, the kitchen when you are cooking, the garden when you are taking the garbage out.................................


Hi, please dont be angry at me, I told what I really think: that we are responsible for our baby's and our pets.
I have a baby, really she has now her own baby's. But I never leaved her alone with our dog or our cat. Of couse you have to do your own things in the house but if my baby was crying I always come back to take a look.
all what I wanted to tell is dont keep dogs with children alone. The dogs are beautiful animals and very trusted friends but it s easy to prevent this horrible situation that suffer after that.
I am really sorry about poor baby and her of his family they go through the hell now but I am also sorry about this dog.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> The dog suffers........................
> 
> Try to save some of that compassion for the dead baby would you?


Of course i have compassion for the baby and parents,all i am saying is that this could have been avoided and the dog probably heard the baby cry and wouldnt recognise it as the baby was new to the house,probably thought it was another animal or a toy making the noise as has been pointed out
The dog wasnt supposed to be in the house, and its not the dogs fault that this happened, 
I was surproised when neighbours said the dog was so tiny as Patterdales are not tiny dogs,it might have been a pup, 
It was a terrible thing to happen to a tiny helpless baby ,and i feel very very sorry for the parents, but yet another dog destroyed because of a mistake in leaving a baby with a dog in the house, with the father probably asleep and the mother out,as she found the baby at 4-15 am, so obviously the father heard nothing, 
I am not putting the dog above the baby at all,just saying its a shame that the dog is suffering too,for something that should never have happened


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> Of course i have compassion for the baby and parents,all i am saying is that this could have been avoided and the dog probably heard the baby cry and wouldnt recognise it as the baby was new to the house,probably thought it was another animal or a toy making the noise as has been pointed out
> The dog wasnt supposed to be in the house, and its not the dogs fault that this happened,
> I was surproised when neighbours said the dog was so tiny as Patterdales are not tiny dogs,it might have been a pup,
> It was a terrible thing to happen to a tiny helpless baby ,and i feel very very sorry for the parents, but yet another dog destroyed because of a mistake in leaving a baby with a dog in the house, with the father probably asleep and the mother out,as she found the baby at 4-15 am, so obviously the father heard nothing,
> I am not putting the dog above the baby at all,just saying its a shame that the dog is suffering too,for something that should never have happened


Yes it is a shame that a baby is dead, the parents will have to live the rest of their lives with something they will never get over and the dog will probably die.

There are lots of things that should never have happened, we still do not have the facts and speculation is pointless, we can all do that, but it will not change anything.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2015)

Aside from all the speculation going on, I think we're underestimating dogs and their relationship with us humans here.

We tried very hard not to leave our infants unattended, but the reality is, sometimes it happens, and when it did, I did not expect my dogs to maul them in my absence. My worries would have been an over exuberant paw or nose nudge, not the use of teeth. And if teeth did happen, I would expect it to be highly restrained and inhibited. (Though again, we don’t have all the details, for all we know it was one mild, extremely unlucky bite on a tiny infant.)


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I swear I do wonder about people on here I really do, we seem to have more compassion for dogs than humans... "the little dog will be destroiyed now, again by the sound of the report a human error, and the dog suffers again" oh right and of course the 3 week old baby didn't suffer? It's parents won't suffer for the rest of their lives?

No one knows what happened in that house and yes sorry the dog should have been PTS it would have been utterly irresponsible to re-home the dog it killed a baby irrespective of who was there, who was asleep who went out the dog killed a child............................. I wouldn't want a dog that has killed a child irrespective of why they did. I am disgusted at peoples attitudes when things like this happen killing a child is NOT normal behavior no matter who made mistakes..


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I swear I do wonder about people on here I really do, we seem to have more compassion for dogs than humans... "the little dog will be destroiyed now, again by the sound of the report a human error, and the dog suffers again" oh right and of course the 3 week old baby didn't suffer? It's parents won't suffer for the rest of their lives?
> 
> No one knows what happened in that house and yes sorry the dog should have been PTS it would have been utterly irresponsible to re-home the dog it killed a baby irrespective of who was there, who was asleep who went out the dog killed a child............................. I wouldn't want a dog that has killed a child irrespective of why they did. I am disgusted at peoples attitudes when things like this happen killing a child is NOT normal behavior no matter who made mistakes..


Don't think anyone claimed it's normal, but why can't people feel compassion and sorrow for the dog? We're on a PET forum after all. Of course it's sad a baby has died, but I really hate the kind of attitudes of 'we should be more respectful of the human loss'...

Both the dog & baby were the innocents in this and one loss of life to me doesn't make the other a lesser loss.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Don't think anyone claimed it's normal, but why can't people feel compassion and sorrow for the dog? We're on a PET forum after all. Of course it's sad a baby has died, but I really hate the kind of attitudes of 'we should be more respectful of the human loss'...
> 
> Both the dog & baby were the innocents in this and one loss of life to me doesn't make the other a lesser loss.


Yep which is fine, yet you and others have dismissed the baby dying tragically with "oh it's sad BUT that poor dog having to die it should be rehomed". Again here and in other place peoples disregard for other people astounds me, certainly has opened my eyes.. It's being respectful to both, not dismissing the death of an innocent child, least the dog would have had a peaceful death rather than the tragic death of this child and others like it. We should stop thinking that dog attacks to this extent are acceptable and if only people had been more responsible the child would have lived mauling a child to death isn't just an accident, and doesn't speak to me of a dog that should be rehomed, and my heart breaks for the CHILD and the family...


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Yep which is fine, yet you and others have dismissed the baby dying tragically with "oh it's sad BUT that poor dog having to die it should be rehomed". Again here and in other place peoples disregard for other people astounds me, certainly has opened my eyes.. It's being respectful to both, not dismissing the death of an innocent child, least the dog would have had a peaceful death rather than the tragic death of this child and others like it. We should stop thinking that dog attacks to this extent are acceptable and if only people had been more responsible the child would have lived mauling a child to death isn't just an accident, and doesn't speak to me of a dog that should be rehomed, and my heart breaks for the CHILD and the family...


I haven't suggested the dog should have been rehomed at all in this thread or the one in dog chat, and not really speculated as to how/why it happened either. I just commented on how sad the whole situation is for all involved, including the dog, and that's it really. I do feel sorry for the dogs involved in these horrible incidents, but that doesn't mean I'm not sorry for the human loss.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> I haven't suggested the dog should have been rehomed at all in this thread or the one in dog chat, and not really speculated as to how/why it happened either. I just commented on how sad the whole situation is for all involved, including the dog, and that's it really. I do feel sorry for the dogs involved in these horrible incidents, but that doesn't mean I'm not sorry for the human loss.


And that the dog lost it's life because the parents were at fault? Yeah utter compassion there for their loss and that of the child..


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> And that the dog lost it's life because the parents were at fault? Yeah utter compassion there for their loss and that of the child..


??

Not sure how you took what I said above and turned it into that conclusion unless you're meaning the OP....

But yes, I do feel sorry for both involved and there is nothing more I can say to 'prove' otherwise.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2015)

The dog is being properly cared for in kennels I presume, and if PTW, will die a humane, painless death. 
I don’t feel sorry for the dog for losing his life (if that were to happen, which seems likely). 

If the dog was ill-treated, misunderstood, badly managed, etc., then I do feel for the dog as I would any dog in that sort of situation. But we don’t know if that was the case here. And besides, what about all those dogs who are ill-treated, misunderstood, mismanaged etc., who do NOT take their frustrations out on the nearest target? 

I guess that’s what bothers me about the “poor dog” comments on this type of story. I mean, I get it when you see so many dogs in terrible situations who end up using teeth, but then.... IDK... Is it really “poor dog”? It is genuine concern for dog welfare? Or is it just a knee jerk emotional reaction to a headline?

The thing is, there are millions of fantastic, easy, stable dogs sitting in shelters and rescues all over who would never resort to teeth. These dogs aren’t making headlines, but I’d reserve my compassion more for one of these dogs than one who does pose a real danger in the human world. 

That’s the whole underestimating of dogs I’m talking about. 
The headline here is not that people are irresponsible and don’t know how to manage dogs (that’s not news, it’s just fact). The headline here, is how RARE this sort of thing is. That despite the fact that most people are total dunces when it comes to dogs, dogs still manage to not bite us badly or kill our children.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> The dog is being properly cared for in kennels I presume, and if PTW, will die a humane, painless death.
> *I don't feel sorry for the dog for losing his life (if that were to happen, which seems likely).*
> 
> If the dog was ill-treated, misunderstood, badly managed, etc., then I do feel for the dog as I would any dog in that sort of situation. But we don't know if that was the case here. And besides, what about all those dogs who are ill-treated, misunderstood, mismanaged etc., who do NOT take their frustrations out on the nearest target?
> ...


Which is fair enough. But I don't see the need for people to then get on their high horse when someone dares mention the parent's and/or comes across lacking empathy for the baby. We're all different. We all feel differently about things. That's it really. No need for anyone to berate anyone else for 'lacking compassion' which at the end of the day I don't see being an issue whatsoever in this thread anyway.


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## Olla (Jun 21, 2015)

I never blame dogs. They are what we make them.
I am very sorry about all victims from this horrible horrible accident.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> Don't think anyone claimed it's normal, but why can't people feel compassion and sorrow for the dog? We're on a PET forum after all. Of course it's sad a baby has died, but I really hate the kind of attitudes of 'we should be more respectful of the human loss'...
> 
> Both the dog & baby were the innocents in this and one loss of life to me doesn't make the other a lesser loss.


Well, I'm afraid that in my opinion, the dog isn't an 'innocent'. For whatever reason, it has killed a Child.

If a Parent, after many sleepless nights, lost their temper, slapped a baby and killed it, would they be viewed as an innocent?

To even try and rehome a dog that has killed a baby would be ridiculously irresponsible I believe.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Sweety said:


> Well, I'm afraid that in my opinion, the dog isn't an 'innocent'. For whatever reason, it has killed a Child.
> 
> If a Parent, after many sleepless nights, lost their temper, slapped a baby and killed it, would they be viewed as an innocent?
> 
> To even try and rehome a dog that has killed a baby would be ridiculously irresponsible I believe.


A parent has the ability to make the right choice and understands the consequences to his/her behaviour. A dog doesn't. Not even comparable.

If my dog kills and maims a cat for example ( using a less extreme example as contrary to what is being made out, I don't believe killing a child is 'normal' ), is he following instinct and 'innocent' or a cold blooded killer with the taste of blood?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Which is fair enough. But I don't see the need for people to then get on their high horse when someone dares mention the parent's and/or comes across lacking empathy for the baby. We're all different. We all feel differently about things. That's it really. No need for anyone to berate anyone else for 'lacking compassion' which at the end of the day I don't see being an issue whatsoever in this thread anyway.


I don't see the need for people to lack compassion,


Dogloverlou said:


> A parent has the ability to make the right choice and understands the consequences to his/her behaviour. A dog doesn't. Not even comparable.
> 
> If my dog kills and maims a cat for example ( using a less extreme example as contrary to what is being made out, I don't believe killing a child is 'normal' ), is he following instinct and 'innocent' or a cold blooded killer with the taste of blood?


So you think killing a child is instinctive? If not then your comments about killing cats is irrelevant as there is no comparison.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I don't see the need for people to lack compassion,
> 
> So you think killing a child is instinctive? If not then your comments about killing cats is irrelevant as there is no comparison.


But IMO it's you reading to much into the replies Meezey. No one has said anything to imply they don't give a toss about the baby or family, but because the OP ( and later myself ) mentioned feeling sorry for the dog you ( and others ) have jumped the gun and insisted that means a lack of compassion. Kind of offensive to those of us who do actually care and are being made out to be heartless!

Of course there is a comparison. A dog doesn't understand the consequences of it's behaviour whether it kills a cat, bird, or child. Humans do. So how the dog can be held up as 'guilty' as if it made a conscious decision to kill I'm not understanding. We don't even know the circumstances of the death. As Ouesi said it could have been one misplaced bite that on a tiny 3 week old baby was a fatal serious injury. Who knows.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> But IMO it's you reading to much into the replies Meezey. No one has said anything to imply they don't give a toss about the baby or family, but because the OP ( and later myself ) mentioned feeling sorry for the dog you ( and others ) have jumped the gun and insisted that means a lack of compassion. Kind of offensive to those of us who do actually care and are being made out to be heartless!
> 
> Of course there is a comparison. A dog doesn't understand the consequences of it's behaviour whether it kills a cat, bird, or child. Humans do. So how the dog can be held up as 'guilty' as if it made a conscious decision to kill I'm not understanding. We don't even know the circumstances of the death. As Ouesi said it could have been one misplaced bite that on a tiny 3 week old baby was a fatal serious injury. Who knows.


So what do you think they should do with the dog then? My insist that it means lack of compassion is because IMO you and others do lack it! A simple nod at the death of a child laying blame at the parents door and pity for the dog and how awful it died = lack of compassion. Every play and compassion is followed with a but...


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> So what do you think they should do with the dog then?


PTS is the only option in these cases for the reasons others have already stated, although I'd hope a thorough investigation was conducted beforehand and reasons as to why/how the incident occurred are made apparent. Which I assume is the case here. But I've never stated anything different.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> But IMO it's you reading to much into the replies Meezey. No one has said anything to imply they don't give a toss about the baby or family, but because the OP ( and later myself ) mentioned feeling sorry for the dog you ( and others ) have jumped the gun and insisted that means a lack of compassion. Kind of offensive to those of us who do actually care and are being made out to be heartless!
> 
> Of course there is a comparison. A dog doesn't understand the consequences of it's behaviour whether it kills a cat, bird, or child. Humans do. So how the dog can be held up as 'guilty' as if it made a conscious decision to kill I'm not understanding. We don't even know the circumstances of the death. As Ouesi said it could have been one misplaced bite that on a tiny 3 week old baby was a fatal serious injury. Who knows.


It's not a question of who was guilty.

This dog has killed a child. What caused the dog to do it is really irrelevant. Obviously, he shouldn't have been alone with the baby, but very few dogs, left in that situation, would kill.

Such a dog can't possibly be rehomed.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Sweety said:


> It's not a question of who was guilty.
> 
> This dog has killed a child. What caused the dog to do it is really irrelevant. Obviously, he shouldn't have been alone with the baby, but very few dogs, left in that situation, would kill.
> 
> *Such a dog can't possibly be rehomed*.


But who said that could be the case? I certainly haven't.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> *My insist that it means lack of compassion is because IMO you and others do lack it! *A simple nod at the death of a child laying blame at the parents door and pity for the dog and how awful it died = lack of compassion. Every play and compassion is followed with a but...


Well you're wrong.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Well you're wrong.


Yet you continue to try and justify the dogs actions with no mention of the child's suffering!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Yet you continue to try and justify the dogs actions with no mention of the child's suffering!


Well if you say so. I can't see how I've done that at all, but there you go.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2015)

Sweety said:


> This dog has killed a child. What caused the dog to do it is really irrelevant. *Obviously, he shouldn't have been alone with the baby, but very few dogs, left in that situation, would kill.*


Bingo.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Why is it that we can accept that human beings sometimes possess the psychopathology that makes them cold blooded killers, yet we find it difficult to accept that sometimes an animal may potentially possess the same kind of psychopathology as a psychopath or sociopath? We are all mammals. Many animals suffer from similar physical diseases and conditions as humans such as high blood pressure, diabetes etc., so it seems perfectly reasonable to me to allow for the possibility that not all dogs kill because of poor dog handling. Sometimes a dog just might be psycholgically unstable because it has been born that way.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I think all this has been taken out of context, it goes without saying that the first consideration is the death of the baby and the poarents, all i was saying was when these things happen its often a situation where the dog has to be put to sleep for something that might have and maybe definitely could have been avoided,we dont know why the dog attacked the baby , and no one suggested it being rehomed,
I dont even have a dog so not saying anything for that reason, but is it wrong to feel sorry that this happened and the dog who might have been a friendly dog to the other children as stated in the report,might not have done this in a malicious way, but might have though the baby was a toy that made a strange noise,it had never seen the baby or been shown it,i wouldnt want a dog either that had killed a baby or harmed a child, didnt say i would want to keep it


Meezey said:


> I swear I do wonder about people on here I really do, we seem to have more compassion for dogs than humans... "the little dog will be destroiyed now, again by the sound of the report a human error, and the dog suffers again" oh right and of course the 3 week old baby didn't suffer? It's parents won't suffer for the rest of their lives?
> 
> No one knows what happened in that house and yes sorry the dog should have been PTS it would have been utterly irresponsible to re-home the dog it killed a baby irrespective of who was there, who was asleep who went out the dog killed a child............................. I wouldn't want a dog that has killed a child irrespective of why they did. I am disgusted at peoples attitudes when things like this happen killing a child is NOT normal behavior no matter who made mistakes..


Some people do take things the wrong way too,


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