# Please help, at end of tether :(



## ScottishWildcat (Dec 17, 2012)

Hiya.

Our cats are MENTAL at the moment. We're getting no sleep at nights because of them, and if we can't figure something out we might have to get rid of them because the lack of sleep etc is making us so ill :cryin:

Please read all the info before replying;

Bastet; is nearly 4. He is a half feral tomcat. Very large and very in charge. He is very attached to my boyfriend (his cat) and doesn't really like me or any other women. He is very unpredictable. This may be because he was badly treated as a kitten and locked in a small room with a bloody rottweiler!!!!

Isis; is 1.5yrs old. We bought her from a pet shop, partly because she looked too young to be there and we were concerned about her. We were right to be- she had fleas and a bad tummy when we got her back- 4 vet visits within a week. The vet reckoned she was only about 5 weeks old (p.s never get a cat from Nixons pet shop in Carlisle). She is a friendly wee thing when she wants to be but alot of the time she likes to be alone.

Food; half a pouch of meat in the morning each, half in the evening. Fresh kibbles out at lunch time and before bed. This was on the vets advice.

House; We HAVE moved house. Before the cats were in a small 2 bedroom flat. They had a cat tree in the living room, litter tray in the bathroom, food in kitchen, and slept in bedroom with boyfriends parents at night.

Now they are in a larger 2 bedroomed house. They have their cat tree in the living room, their litter tray is hidden under the stairs to give them some privacy, their food is in the lving room (can't keep in kitchen too many breakables and Isis likes to climb), and they have beds in both the hallway and in our room.

People; My boyfriends parents were in the house all the time as they were retired. We are out of the house on average 4-8 hours about 5 days a week depending on shifts.

Behaviour;

- clawing at carpets (rented house >_<) even with deterrant spray.
- running up and down the stairs constantly all night.
- Isis has taken to mewling very loudly alot of the night (part siamese >_<)
- clawing at unpacked boxes (most hidden but only room for so many in spare room which we had to block off because they were destroying everything).
- fighting. Not play fighting, actual fight fighting. Isis often starts it, but Bastet takes it too far.
- attacking; Bastet has taken to attacking both Isis and me. I've literally had to prise Isis away from him because he was being vicious to the point I was scared for her. He's been more and more bitey-scratchy with me; he clawed my face from between the stair rungs today, just missing my eye. He's never done that before.
- pouncing at people; Bastet sometimes randomly runs at my legs, claws out and then runs away... never did that before we moved either.
- growling; Bastet has taken to growling at people. I know cats aren't supposed to growl but he does. It's not a snarl, it's a proper growl. He even growls at people walking past the house now. (Isis sometimes gets the post for us... not trained behaviour, I swear they think they are dogs...).
- hissing; proper cat behaviour by Bastet; I don't think I have ever heard Isis hiss. She mewls.

Then you get the obligatory climbing, playing with the xmas tree, attacking the laundry on the clothes horse, cable chewing, curtain clawing, climbing in the sinks/baths (Isis likes water)...

I swear I don't have the energy to deal with this anymore.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Sounds like they're super stressed from the move, the change in environment, the lack of constant company, all these new, unfamiliar boxes... That's a lot for a cat to deal with. Their whole world as they knew it has effectively disappeared. I'd suggest a few things.

Firstly, change their diet. Sounds mad I know, but many cats are very temperamental on a lower quality, low meat diet, and many tempers resolve with a change. I'd initially recommend something along the lines of Animonda, Bozita, Grau or Feringa from Zooplus, with a view to switching again to something even better if they take to it well. Feed them more wet and less, or even better no dry food at all.

Next, invest in some Feliway and Zylkene. I've had no success with the former, but many have, and the latter is successful in many more cases, as long as you can either pill your cat or get them to accept the tablet in food. They are both calming, de-stressing agents.

Lastly, give them lots and lots of reassurance, cuddling if they'll accept it too. I would maybe think about confining them to one room, either separate or together depending on whether your boy settles with a smaller territory. Let them settle and become calm in there, then gradually open up your house to them, one room at a time, always going back to the safe room if one or other appears stressy. It would be helpful to only give them access to rooms when they've been totally unpacked and everything is arranged to your satisfaction. This way, they can get used to their new environment without it constantly changing again.

Hope some of this helps.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree that the move may have been very stressful for them; a bigger, new house with lots of new smells may be causing them anxiety.

I moved home a couple of years ago & bought a Feliway diffuser, plugged it in a couple of weeks before the move then about a week after we moved in & I'm sure this helped them settle in. You could also try Zylkene as suggested, my rescue dog was on these (for dogs & cats) & they were great for helping with her anxiety.

The growling again may be due to stress so the above may help with that. As for the pouncing, are you sure this sin;t play? I've known many cats do this in play, even if it is painful at times!

Not wishing to make light of things but certain behaviours you are listing are what I would consider 'normal' behaviour from some cats. My two claw the carpets, they run up & down stairs playing, sometimes this gets a bit OTT.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

I agree with previous post but also wonder if it might be worth speaking to your boyfriend's parents too - they might have some useful insights & the cats obviously trusted them if they slept with them. 

As they are not used to being alone so much, boredom might be part of the problem (?) so evening play to tire them out might help (the usual ping-pongs up & down stairs; laser mice etc). 

If they are not getting along, separate sleep areas away from each other (and an extra litter tray/water bowl etc) could be useful. Feliway does help imo.

Sorry, it sounds pretty stressful and I can't think of anything else x


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Sounds normal behaviour to me too. Cats all have different personalities and some are naturally more quiet than others. With 8 cats, some are little monsters, and some - you wouldnt know they were there.

I have laid stone floors throughout (bungalow) so I dont have a problem with scratchin carpets, and its so easy to keep clean. At bed time, they all zonk on my bed and dont make a sound until morning. 

What about cat proofing the garden so they can play in the garden and run off any excess energy.


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## ScottishWildcat (Dec 17, 2012)

We tried giving them less space last night; we put their water, food, litter and beds in the kitchen. This didn't work and we were scared they'd get onto the shelves with glasses and stuff due to a love of climbing.

As for their diet; trust me, these two eat better than we do, there is no problem with the food they get, we buy them the absolute best as well as mixing in some fresh chicken, turkey, or cooked fish every few days.

This morning Isis has slept; I tried to wake her up to play but nope. She just glowered at me and rolled over.

Bastet has been a sooky boy. He even came and sat on my knee O_O. However he's had enough company now and he's reverted to hissy scratchy bitey cat. 

Also, as far as normal behaviour goes; I have no idea! I've had dogs all my life! I'm not really a cat person tbh. I mean they are cute but I would rather have a dog to walk with. If my partner hadn't already had the cats we'd have a dog now.

His parents are coming over soon to see what they can suggest. 

(oh and I'm in the UK btw I haven't heard of a couple of these products)


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## ScottishWildcat (Dec 17, 2012)

Oh, and we can't let them outside; Isis is actually TERRIFIED of outdoors. We once accidentally left the door open for a bit and came to find her sat just inside it with big eyes. Leaving the house at all stresses her out. Bastet on the other hand is part feral and we'd be scared of losing him; he might not come back. There is no option to build an enclosure or anything due to the tenancy we have.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Firstly are they both neutered? If not that will help immensely.

Secondly - you can buy Feliway and Zyklene very easily over the net (Pet Supplies, Pet Food, Dog Food, Cat Food and Pet Accessories at Zooplus) and even Feliway from [email protected] You may not have heard of them but they have been known to be very effective. Your cats sound very stressed and that's going to be to do with the house move. You can even put rescue remedy in their food/ drinking water.

Food wise I would have a quick look at exactly what you are feeding them - I know you say it is the best but . . . just check for grain content especially in your dry food. Most cats are actually intolerant to grains and it can cause behaviour issues. If you really need to feed dry (I don't - hate the stuff despite what the vets recommend) try grain free ones and see if that helps - Orijen, Acana and Applaws dries are all grain free and worth a try. Same for your wet, look to be feeding grain free foods with a high meat content not lots of vegetable protein fillers - brands like Bozita tines, Grau and Aminonda Carny are available from the site I listed and aslo Purely, Hi-life and Natures Menu are all a high meat content and have much reduced unnecessary fillers. Alternatively look out for Natural Instinct raw food. It is amazing how much a change of diet can help. Also sounds silly, but try feeding them a bit more wet, they may be hungry and not want the dry, we often have people on here asking about their cats bad behaviour and it's sometimes down to hunger.

Many cats get overstimulated when fussed - be aware of subtle body signals and don't interact too much and as soon as you see the signs stop fussing them and don't look at them. Just move away.

Try to be as calm as you can at all times with the cats. If they misbehave just give them time out, either by removing yourself or them. Make sure they have a scratch post to use instead of the carpet. If you can clip their claws.

Also have them checked over for illness - quiet often cats can sense when another cat isn't quiet right and this makes them aggressive - and this before even we notice something.

My cats don't go outside in the main - we do have a run but it's too cold for them at the moment. ANd we have a herd of elephants chasing each other around the house quite a lot. They pounce on each other and squeal - rule of thumb if there is NO blood it's playing. Could you not get a temporary enclosure in the garden - I'm a landlord and I would allow one.

Hope it gets better soon.


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## ScottishWildcat (Dec 17, 2012)

Will have a nosey at the food supplies and see what looks best for them 

They are a bit better today, which is strange because we had strangers in the house (tv engineers). Although one of them got a proper fright when Bastet hissed at him with his fangs right out- he's a big boy!

Boyfriends parent's are away to see if they can get something from the vet for them- the vets know the cats really well (lady vet wants to steal Bastet!).

Rescue Remedy?! Really?! Is that okay for them cos it has alcohol in it O_O Isis likes booze... I always have to watch my wine around her! 

As for illness; they are both very good at letting me know when they are ill. Even before they lived here it was always me that could tell they were ill and got them to the vets. They both seem fine. I also checked their poop today when I cleaned out the litter tray; nothing wrong there. They've both been friendly enough to let me check all over them today, and there were no squeals when I patted any area of them; they usually would. 

I've cleaned their beds and washed all around the litter tray, hoovered their rugs, and scrubbed all around their food mats and things- they are very clean, so maybe things haven't been to their liking...

... and I just found Isis buried face first in the bag of dry food in the kitchen. No idea how she got there but I guess I better give them more food!


I love my kitties I just want to make them happier <3


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## sarahhenderson (Aug 28, 2012)

Zylkene Capsules - Priced Per Tablet - 75mg - Animed Direct

this is a link for zyklene - we use 75mg for our cats (one capsule everyday each - and as we are based in uk aswell this website is great to order from and reasonably priced)

Search results for feliway - Animed Direct

heres a link from the same site, animed direct, for feliway, which ca also help your cats to calm down

we tried using the bach rescue remedy, and to be fair it did calm our cats down, but they had upset tummies as a result of using it, though your cats may not react in the same way- the link below is from a cat protection website telling you which flower essences to use for which behavioural problems:

Bach Flower Remedies - CATS PROTECTION

hope this helps 
sarah x


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## ScottishWildcat (Dec 17, 2012)

Because our tomcat is so huge the vet doesn't think feliway would work on him. So she's given us a prescription diffuser whatsit that will be okay on the wee one as well. Picking it up later.

The cats were lovely all day yesterday and the big one even came and sat on my knee which was a rare honour. I played with them loads and made sure I also gave big boy time out when he got a bit over stimulated.

Last night, I decided enough was enough. I had a glass of wine to relax myself, and we went to bed. Instead of only leaving the bedroom door open a little bit, I left it fully open, and made sure there were toys and stuff on the floor. I then instructed my partner under no circumstances to humour them; to just ignore them.

Big boy decided to attack little girl. He was making a total racket. However, because I was less tense I realised that it was purely noise. It wasn't actually as vicious as we'd thought. I held my partner back, and we continued to 'ignore' them. Baby started mewling. Ignored that too. 

5 mins later, they calmed down. They left us alone until 5.30am (record!). Bastet jumped on my legs so I just gently shoved him off the bed. 5 mins later he was back on the bed, but all cute and purry and in our faces. I got up, fed them, and that was pretty much that.

This morning, big boy is in a great mood. He actually played properly with me for ages with a fluffy reindeer. He also came and sat on me for a bit. Now he's sat on the arm of the chair with his daddy, quite happy, whilst little one is off hunting her toys 

Please, let it last ^_^


ALSO; I am going to change their dry food. I'd just gone with what they had always had, which I was assured was 'the best' and not ever having had a cat I just assumed they knew what they were talking about. Their wet food is fine, I checked and it is just meat and jelly with no additives. HOWEVER, upon closely reading the ingredients of the supposedly 'healthy' food they'd always eaten, I was horrified to find taurine on one of the brands. BLOOMING TAURINE?!!!!! That's what they put in Red Bull!!!! There were loads of cereals and e numbers in one of the others as well. 

So the food choices are now going to be made by me, as I am NOT having my babies eating that crap. We're not flush money wise at the moment but I'll happily sacrifice my own treats I need to lose weight anyway 

Thanks for the advice guys ^_^ xxxxx


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

First turn your tomcat into a neuter and he should calm down some.

A lot of their behaviour sounds like boredom, along with stress. Do you play with them at all?

Also many cats like routine, especially for night time. If you give them a play session, around 15-20 mins followed by a wet or raw meal, then bed. Getting their energy out before bed will make for a more peaceful night. 

Keep their claws clipped so they can't scratch at things, and provide several different cat trees and scratching poles so they've got appropriate places to scratch, play and climb. 
You might need a few different textures, carpet, sissal, there are also cardboard scratch pads. 

Playing with the xmas tree or climbing clothes horses is very normal cat behaviour. Put those things in a room the cats can't get in if you don't want them touched.


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## Rubyx (Mar 18, 2012)

I'm not an expert but my understanding from other posts on the forum is that cats need taurine so it is good if this is listed on the ingredients. It's a high grain/cereal and/or low meat content you need to be wary of. Hope things have settled down a bit for you all now. Rx


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## Sansa (Oct 19, 2011)

Taurine is an essential amino acid for cats. If they don't get enough, they quite simply cannot survive. Wiki

Do, however, change their food to something grain-free and with a large meat content, preferably wet. On the nutrition boards, there are always a couple of threads open with people asking for food advice, and other people listing some of the good food brands. "The best" food may not always be what the vets say it is - most of what vets sell is chock-full of grains, which are not too good for cats.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

ScottishWildcat said:


> <snip>
> HOWEVER, upon closely reading the ingredients of the supposedly 'healthy' food they'd always eaten, I was horrified to find taurine on one of the brands. BLOOMING TAURINE?!!!!! That's what they put in Red Bull!!!!
> <snip>


Taurine is vital to cats - unless a cat food is supplemented with it they will probably run into all sorts of horrible health problems. It's an amino acid they can't make themselves.

I have no idea why it's in Red Bull, but the ingredient that gives it it's effect is Caffeine which is also in coffee and tea.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> I have no idea why it's in Red Bull, but the ingredient that gives it it's effect is Caffeine which is also in coffee and tea.


No idea about Red Bull but taurine is also used by bodybuilders "for its antioxidant, cell-volumising and muscle contractile regulation properties" likely has other uses as well.
Many adding it into home made raw buy the 'human' taurine apparently, as most the cat suppliments contain several different vitamins when they just want to add taurine.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> No idea about Red Bull but taurine is also used by bodybuilders "for its antioxidant, cell-volumising and muscle contractile regulation properties" likely has other uses as well.
> ...


I wonder if it's anything more than a placebo effect for bodybuilders? I used to go out with one and he had some very strange views on how the body works...


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