# For those of you with Studs...



## kellyrich (Jan 8, 2009)

do you keep them inside or outisde?

If outisde do you have any pictures of your set ups?

If inside do they spray and get aggresisve with other cats?

I would like to get my own stud (eventually) but im not sure if i could keep him inside if he got aggressive with my other neutered boys and i woudlnt want him spraying!

But i dont really want to keep any cats outside as i dont think this is fair and i would feel guilty! 

Any advice with what you do with your studs is appreciated!


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

kellyrich said:


> do you keep them inside or outisde?
> 
> But i dont really want to keep any cats outside as i dont think this is fair and i would feel guilty!
> 
> Any advice with what you do with your studs is appreciated!


I dont know of any BSH breeders in the UK who keep their stud boys inside - quite a lot are kept in cattery style pens with small runs - you need to look around to find a stud boy whose living circumstances you are comfortable with, especially as you will be leaving your girl with him.


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## kellyrich (Jan 8, 2009)

wicket said:


> I dont know of any BSH breeders in the UK who keep their stud boys inside - quite a lot are kept in cattery style pens with small runs - you need to look around to find a stud boy whose living circumstances you are comfortable with, especially as you will be leaving your girl with him.


I do know of quite a few small breeders off this site who keep them indoors but i know the majority keep them outside, i was just curious to see set ups people have on here.

Yes i already have a few studs in mind to use for Martha when the time comes, but got a while to go yet! 

Thanks


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

We keep our stud boy inside. We converted the utility into a room for him. We took the main door off and it now has a wooden frame with wire mesh door. The neuters go in with him often and the other cats can go up to and 'talk' through the door as he is quite a chatterer lol. There are loads of shelves for him to climb and two large cat trees. He is quite shy as he came to us as a fully mature boy from another breeder and he had been living outside then with little contact.

He doesn't spray at all and neither have our previous boys but maybe we have been lucky. I personally would not want any cat of mine in a 'cattery' set up outside, for either a male or female. Our cats are part of the family but everyone is different.


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## kellyrich (Jan 8, 2009)

chloe1975 said:


> He doesn't spray at all and neither have our previous boys but maybe we have been lucky. I personally would not want any cat of mine in a 'cattery' set up outside, for either a male or female. Our cats are part of the family but everyone is different.


Thats exactly my views too, i really wouldnt want to keep any cats outside at all i would constantly worry and want them in the hosue with me! 

I was just curious to see how people keep their studs xx thanks xx


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Are all the studs you have in mind for your girl kept inside? If you think it's wrong to keep stud boys in proper stud quarters then presumably you wouldn't be prepared to use one that is.


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## kellyrich (Jan 8, 2009)

havoc said:


> If you think it's wrong to keep stud boys in proper stud quarters then presumably you wouldn't be prepared to use one that is.


I never said it was wrong, its just _my personal _feelings for any of _my_ cats, i prefer _my_ own cats to be indoors with me, what other people do with their cats is their business and their views and opinions. I dont disagree with anybody for having their cats outside as it may be what they want and prefer, whereas my preference is indoors for my own cats.

I would love to be able to get a couple of my own studs in the future and keep them outside but i just dont know if i would be able to handle the worry of them being outside all the time and the guilt of having some indoors and some outside. Thats why im asking questions, so i can see how people do it - and im asking views of keeping them inside to see how people manage that as it is my preference.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

It really depends on the boy. I know some breeders keep their stud inside but only if he is a non sprayer and doesn't get frustrated by the other cats


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Mine lives inside, but he doesn't spray and is content with the other cats. He's not a hassler so can live contentedly with them. I never allow him access to any of my entire girls unsupervised, but other than that, he's just treated as one of the family.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

All of my breeding cats are outside... They love laying in the sunshine watching the world go by. I have two stud boys sharing and one on his own perfectly happy and get lots of attention morning noon and night 

As much as I would like them all in, it's not possible plus i like to know when my girls are mated and my boys stink 

Owning a stud is not easy, plus you have to have enough girls for him to cover 

Stud pens are 8ft x 4 sleeping quarters and 8 x 9 runs with plenty of trees


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I kept my boy outside, but brought him in the house sometimes, although he wasn't a big sprayer, and in winter made a spare bedroom for him with my other ex stud boy so he had company, he is neutered now so is in the house all the time.,
I wouldnt keep any cats outside again, I felt guilty, and still do even though hes inside now, I have all the girls spayed now too except for 1 which I am not sure about, might find another stud to take her to yet,


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

kellyrich said:


> I would love to be able to get a couple of my own studs in the future and keep them outside but i just dont know if i would be able to handle the worry of them being outside all the time and the guilt of having some indoors and some outside.


To be honest when you start breeding you will do all sorts of things you'd thought you'd never do but I can tell you now, if you do want to keep a stud in the future then you are best resigning yourself to the fact that he will almost certainly have to live out.

It's not just the fact that most spray, but often the Queen's can be mean when finding an entire male mixing with them and he can find himself bullied, and a cornered stud will come out fighting. I have always kept mine out, as soon as they started to show an interest in the girls that went beyond playing. I allow mixing both indoors and in the garden under supervision, at the first sign of harassment from either side he goes back in his run.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Not neccessarily though. I know plenty of breeders who keep their studs inside, albeit usually they have a house roomy enough to keep him separate from the girls if there are plenty but at the same time have him living under the same roof and spending just as much time with him as the girls.

Honestly, although my male is really mellow so I obviously cannot speak for all, having your own stud is not nearly as hard as I was led to believe. He is less work than my queen. As for spraying from my experience it seems to be mainly genetic, so researching the males in the boy's line can tell you a lot about the possibility of him spraying, however of course it also depends on the boy himself, his surroundings, stress levels, etc.



chloe1975 said:


> I personally would not want any cat of mine in a 'cattery' set up outside, for either a male or female. Our cats are part of the family but everyone is different.


I agree with this. I would also refuse to sell a breeding boy (whose father would be my boy) to a breeder who would keep him outside. I know the line of my boy enough to be sure that this is unneccessary.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

See this were I have a problem , stud locked in a room, so not apart of the family really ... Although my boys are outside in a large heated cattery they are next to my girls so have feline company all of the time 

Each to their own a guess, but I know my boys are happy and enjoy the fresh air and the sun on theirs back .. Locking them in small room would make them unhappy


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

This question, studs indoors or out, always throws up different personal experiences and, therefore, opinions. Being a bit ancient, having been involved in the cat fancy for a long time and with many, many breeder friends and acquaintances, I can honestly say that I know only one person (speaking about my own breed, BSH's, only) who has ever managed to keep a stud indoors. She has a beautifully kept, large home which is always spotless but I tell you, it often smelt very strongly of stud cat urine. He didn't spray, it was simply the smell from his litter tray. I know some will not agree but that would be something I couldn't live with, nor would I expect my partner to put up with it and nor would I like to expose friends, family and visitors to it.

Urine smell aside, that situation was clearly only manageable for her because of the size of her home. I do know it definitely became less manageable the more mature he became; it is one thing, being able to keep a young, highly friendly, still playful in nature young male indoors if you have the space and facilities - it's quite something else to try that with a mature, dare I say smelly, strapping big BSH male whose one aim in life is to mate girls. 

It might be do'able with lots of space/rooms. In real life, most of us live in average sized homes, often with families, breeding queens in the house and, from time to time, kittens running around also.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Interesting how at one point on this forum I was scrutinized for asking which cat litter and tray to buy to avoid strong smells in the tray (with people semi diagnosing my boy with all sorts of things and almost calling me irresponsible), yet when it comes to the question of keeping studs indoors/outdoors, breeders have no problem using this to back up their decisions for keeping studs outdooors. (And before anyone mentions it, indeed I also mentioned his stools in that topic and me saying that he goes many times per day and that his stools are looser than my girl's was turned into him having diarrhea all day long. He got his anal glands cleaned, but that only affected his butt smells and guess what - he poops the same and there's still nothing wrong with him. )

Everyone has their own way of doing things and each stud is unique. The studs I've seen living outdoor were much more unhappy than those inside, but that's just my personal experience. I cannot imagine taking the opportunity of watching his little kittens growing up and being able to care for them away from my stud, my two are a family.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

There's a big difference in talking about the smell of wee vs the smell of poo! you were criticised for having a boy with sloppy stinky poos multiple times a day. Completely different ball game to stinky wee!


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Note the part in the small font. I don't really feel the need to discuss this any further as this is not the thread and all was said, just found it interesting.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Im just sitting here wondering how well it would work,and how many oops litters would result.

I know for certain i couldnt keep boys indoors imaging trying to keep back a determined 7kg BSH boy who really really wants that girl,believe me they are strong.

I think its unfair to say outdoor boys are unhappy,let me tell you when i do bring my lads in from time to time they sit at the door wanting to go back out. 

I just imagine the smell of the boys and girls marking to let one another know they are there ..yuk!

Each to their own and if your way works for you then great.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I can't note the part in the small font. I'm blind.

BSH, it's doable but it really, really isn't easy and I'm getting to the point now where my lad is choosing to go out more and more and is harassing the others when he's inside. not a happy situation for me as I never wanted him to be out all the time.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

There seems to be an assumption that keeping a stud 'outside' can only result in him being banished to a lonely hovel at the bottom of the garden. Most stud owners I know have a much better set up than this and the stud 'quarters' are usually the best decorated and most comfortable accommodation available either attached to the house or very close to it. I would be very uncomfortable taking a girl to anyone who wasn't prepared to invest in safe, escape proof accommodation with properly built queen's quarters.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Honestly I am just surprised by how many people say or imply that the "stud's only aim in life is to mate". I would have thought that, regardless of whether he's kept inside or outside, there should be more to a stud's life than just mating. If a stud is so full of hormones he is uncapable of being next to any cat without trying to mate or really just does not know anything other in life than to mate, then maybe he deserves a neutered life. A stud is after all a cat like any other and if he does not care for human company, never likes to be just cuddled and spoilt while purring like a little baby (while still doing all his stud duties at the right time properly), then maybe he should not be a stud. It just saddens me how sometimes they are only seen as a tool to procreate so to say, rather than a beloved member of the family first (just like the queens), and breeding cat second. 

The fact is that most studs live inside up until they reach maturity. It just doesn't make much sense to me that any cat that would be able to lounge around the house and have human company almost at all times for months would be happy to be suddenly thrown out of the house to live outside, regardless of how propely built his accommodation is. 

But as said it depends on the stud and I certainly am not saying that breeders who keep their studs outside do not care about their studs or that their studs are neccessarily unhappy. I am sure that breeders on this forum in particular do their best for their studs at all times. 

Oh and just to add that all guest or kitten viewers compliment how they cannot smell any cats when they enter my place, and I now have a stud, a queen and four crazy kittens living in it. I am very, very sensitive to cat smells and do my best to eliminate them (thus the previous thread). I have been to breeders' home who only have girls inside and the smells were horrible. A stud inside does not always mean a smelly house. However, there is certainly much more work involved in making the house smell good at all times and keeping litter boxes clean when you share your bedroom with a three year old stud.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Absolutely, Havoc. My guy's quarters are like a palace and almost more comfortable than the house! I just don't like to think of him out there as he's a very, very sociable chap and wants to be in with the humans and cats at least some of the time. It's working well at the moment though. He dictates when he goes out and comes in, and at the moment is choosing to be out most of the time, only coming in to sleep with me at night. Works well.

I think in general, do whatever works for you at that time. There's no one size fits all answer.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

HeartofClass said:


> Honestly I am just surprised by how many people say or imply that the "stud's only aim in life is to mate". I would have thought that, regardless of whether he's kept inside or outside, there should be more to a stud's life than just mating. If a stud is so full of hormones he is uncapable of being next to any cat without trying to mate or really just does not know anything other in life than to mate, then maybe he deserves a neutered life. A stud is after all a cat like any other and if he does not care for human company, never likes to be just cuddled and spoilt while purring like a little baby (while still doing all his stud duties at the right time properly), then maybe he should not be a stud. It just saddens me how sometimes they are only seen as a tool to procreate so to say, rather than a beloved member of the family first (just like the queens), and breeding cat second.
> 
> The fact is that most studs live inside up until they reach maturity. It just doesn't make much sense to me that any cat that would be able to lounge around the house and have human company almost at all times for months would be happy to be suddenly thrown out of the house to live outside, regardless of how propely built his accommodation is.
> 
> ...


I should have more correctly said 'main' aim in life and not 'one' aim in life. My previous very mature stud (I now have only a young male who is currently living in the house) lived outdoors. He enjoyed my (and my partner's) very frequent company, the company of non-calling girls, batting around his toys with or without my presence and frequently playing around in the garden. Just a normal cat in all respects but faced with/in the nearby presence of a queen in call his one focus in life became mating. Would anyone really expect a mature, working stud to prefer the feather on a stick I was waving over the opportunity to mate?

We probably each have a distorted view of 'how the other half lives'. You imagine that a stud kept outdoors cannot possibly have much quality of life and I imagine that breeders' homes where studs are kept indoors all stink to high heaven and that, for much of the time, the male must be shut away in a room to prevent unwanted matings/pregnancies.

As difficult as you find it to contemplate how an outdoor stud could be happy and content I too, in all sincerity, cannot imagine how it works keeping a male in the house. I could be completely wrong, but I imagine it must be a male who does not spray (or is happy to wear stud pants most of the time) and has his own room where he can be shut away - surely there are at least periods of time where this is necessary? My girls, if unmated, will call repeatedly all spring, summer and often winter long; what would I do with a male kept indoors if I didn't want him to mate them? Shut him away in a room? Shut the girls away in a room?


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Every male creature on the planet will fight, sometimes to the death, in order to be able to mate. Its a pretty overriding part of life, becoming more important even than food when receptive females are around. Its the reason that studs lose a ton of weight in the summer, the reason why male deer can be left so weakened they struggle to make it through winter, and the reason why lions will kill any cubs when they take over a pride.

If a breeder is able to keep their stud in the house and not have the place reek of urine, or have regular accidental matings then that is fine. However as many of us have found this is simply not possible, particularly when the stud is a sprayer or you have several queens.

Neither side is right or wrong with the way they choose to keep their cats, nor should they be made to feel bad about their choice.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

'Outside' can mean a consevatory or annexe, well furnished. My stud house is warm, comfortable, complete with TV. My stud boy gets more individual attention than the vast majority of pet cats as we use the space as a second sitting room. It isn't a cost free option admittedly. It would be much cheaper to stick him behind a closed door within the main body of the house.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

TM, that did make me chuckle! You've only gotta look at human males half the time to realise just how strong the urge is, even though people are generally well socialised and socially engineered to ignore the urges! All you gotta do is go down a local night club at kicking out time and you'll see that mating is and remains the primal urge for most of us.

With careful management it can be done. My lad has lots of family time with me and the queens, but never a queen in call or even a receptive one. As soon as she starts burbling or he starts making advances, separation is immediate. It means a lot of juggling, and I have to admit that that's really tricky at times.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> As difficult as you find it to contemplate how an outdoor stud could be happy and content I too, in all sincerity, cannot imagine how it works keeping a male in the house. I could be completely wrong, but I imagine it must be a male who does not spray (or is happy to wear stud pants most of the time) and has his own room where he can be shut away - surely there are at least periods of time where this is necessary? My girls, if unmated, will call repeatedly all spring, summer and often winter long; what would I do with a male kept indoors if I didn't want him to mate them? Shut him away in a room? Shut the girls away in a room?


Of course I am biased because I have circumstances in my life that allow me to do this including the male's personality, my living arrangments, the plus of only having one queen, etc. A lot of thought is given into everything and it works perfectly. He does not spray indeed. The queen has her own kittening room, and we have a "love room" for visiting queens and the boy, other than that neither is, nor will ever be, confined to a room. So far there has never been a need to keep them separate, but if the need ever arises - however it looks like it won't be anytime soon due to her specific heat cycle and him not having interested in girls not in heat - everything is arranged to do this properly and neither will have to live outside or locked in a room and both will enjoy human attention at all hours of the day.

They are, along with the kittens, currently together 24/7. He helps raise the kittens, and grooms the queen, 90% of the time he will want to sleep wrapped around my neck at night. I am 100% sure he would be unhappy living outside. He is a really special boy and I hope dearly that I can continue this wonderful line with one of his sons. He came to me under special circumstances and the reason he stayed is precisely because I had the option of having him live in this way, which his previous owner (breeder) didn't. As said... I am biased. If it weren't for him and his wonderful traits, I would never be a stud owner as I wouldn't want to keep studs outside, and I've never realized that such mellow males existed.

To each their own. I am sure that we all do our best to accommodate every cat.


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