# My dog bit someone



## RoxyBaby (Oct 28, 2014)

I have a Rottweiler, she is about 7-8 years old and usually very friendly. I've only had her for 3 years so her past history is a mystery. The people I got her from were not very desirable and so I suppose I rescued her from her miserable surroundings. 
She is a smart dog, always learning and very friendly to 99% of people that visit my home. She seems to have a dislike for black people though. 
I live in a ground floor flat with only a front garden that is surrounded by a 4 ft fence with a gate. 
This morning the bin men came to take the rubbish and unbeknownst to me had left my gate open. My dog was out in the garden chewing on a treat when one of my neighbours carers passed by. (A black lady) My dog started barking at her but I didn't give it a second thought as she was behind the fencing. Then I heard the woman yelling, I jumped up and called my dog in then went to see if the woman was ok, but she had run off.
The police have been called, my dog had bit her causing quite a deep wound. They saw that I have a sign saying 'Please Shut The Gate' and I also have a stairgate in my house to put her behind in case I have a delivery man or workman that is nervous of dogs. 
I'd also reported the binman leaving the gate open and gave the reference number to the police. They also came inside to see if my dog was aggressive... She was licking them and all over them, being her usual friendly self. 
The police have told me that she needs to be supervised and muzzled when in the garden and for me to make sure the gate is closed properly. I told him I will be getting a bolt for the gate so its ultra secure. He said he would take a note of that and agreed it was a good idea. 
I will have to wait until the police get back to me regarding any further action. He assured me that he will report that my dog does not seem aggressive and is friendly. He also said that my dog may need to be assessed but didn't say if this was definite. 
I'm just wondering what the worst case scenario could be? I feel sick to my stomach because I love my Rottie dearly and I feel so sorry for the lady that she attacked.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

RoxyBaby said:


> I have a Rottweiler, she is about 7-8 years old and usually very friendly. I've only had her for 3 years so her past history is a mystery.
> 
> *I really does not matter what her past history was before you had her*
> 
> ...


You will have to wait and see, there are a number of factors that may be taken into consideration, but you will at the very least have to demonstrate that your dog is not a threat to the general public.

Trevor is the best source of advice

Doglaw - SPECIALIST ADVICE ON DOG LAW


----------



## RoxyBaby (Oct 28, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> I have a Rottweiler, she is about 7-8 years old and usually very friendly. I've only had her for 3 years so her past history is a mystery.
> 
> *I really does not matter what her past history was before you had her*


*Are you sure about that? How do I know whether or not she was abused by someone previously? I find your comment ludicrous to say the least. Do your research and know that any dog that (maybe) has been abused will have certain behavioural traits. *



smokeybear said:


> I live in a ground floor flat with only a front garden that is surrounded by a 4 ft fence with a gate.
> This morning the bin men came to take the rubbish and unbeknownst to me had left my gate open.
> 
> *I have to say I find it difficult to understand why anyone with a dog would not be totally anal about gates when they leave a dog in the garden.*


*There is a latch/lock on the gate plus a big metal sign that reads; PLEASE SHUT THE GATE. The binman chose to ignore this. I'm a responsible owner and the police recognised this otherwise my dog would not be sitting at my feet right now!!*

*I was merely asking for advice, not criticism from someone who doesn't know me or my dog. I'm by no means shirking any responsibility, I'm just worried sick.*


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

So sorry to hear about this incident. I think you do need to seek professional advice from someone who understands dog law so do contact doglaw on the link provided. 

Its understandable that you are upset but the advice smokeybear has given you is good advice so try not to be defensive. The past history of the dog probably won't be taken into consideration by the court if it gets that far. My dogs are all rescues and as you can see one is a rottie, my previous rescue rottie was dog and people aggressive so it was entirely my responsibility to keep everyone who came in contact with her safe. Of course as owners we do make allowances for their past history and understand why that may explain certain behaviours but we can't expect the general public to do so as well.

Regarding the garden and the gate I personally would not feel happy having my dog in a front garden with only a 4ft fence and a gate that can be opened from the outside. Your idea of fixing a bolt is great but its still worth having a routine whereby you always go out and check first before letting your dog into the garden. 

Might it be worth trying to find out from your neighbour where the carer works and sending a card and some flowers or chocolates saying how sorry you are. 

I hope you can speak to Doglaw and have your mind put at rest.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Roxy - you must be worried sick. I know I would be if it was my dog.

The good thing is that the police have found your girl to be friendly and no threat. You were also able to call her back - her recall seems to be excellent - very few dogs can be called away from an attack. That has to go in her favour.

The bad thing is that, no matter who was responsible for leaving the gate open, your dog has actually bitten someone - we don't know why. Perhaps she has been abused in her previous life, and her abuser was a black lady; perhaps the woman was afraid and ran, and your dog's prey drive kicked in; perhaps she was trying to play and used excessive bite force; perhaps the woman pulled away and the wound she received was therefore worsened (BTW - I am NOT blaming this lady - just suggesting scenarios).

Hopefully your dog will not have to suffer anything further than what the policeman has suggested, but it may be that you will be charged with having an out of control dog, and receive a fine. I don't know how the law stands, but I think it will depend on how badly this lady was hurt. You may also be sued by the woman your dog bit, so if you have insurance, I would check your policy now - hopefully it will not come to this, but you never know. If she loses time at work she may not be able to afford not to take action.

How does your dog behave when people come into your garden? Or have you always made sure that she is in the house when the postman/binman etc arrive?

I think that I would see if I could get a spring put onto the gate to ensure that it closes - even with a muzzle on she is an intimidating dog should she get out again, and there is also the chance that she could cause/have a road accident.

Are you able to put your bin outside your garden for collection? This would stop the binmen from entering your property and leaving the gate open. Also, check the gate every time you let her out - if you also put on a bolt as you have offered to do, this should prevent her from getting out again.

I hope that the lady she bit is okay, and that you get this very worrying situation sorted out quickly. This is something that could happen to almost any of us - one of those awful, unfortunate events that perhaps we should foresee, but often don't. Hope all goes well.


----------



## wannabe dogowner (Feb 24, 2013)

Whatever her history before you had her, you can only deal with the here and now. You know she has an issue with black people, which may be due to precious neglect or simply her socialisation as a pup did not include people from different ethnicities. 
I would personally never,ever leave my dog in a front garden unsupervised.
 especially one with low fencing and an insecure gate. Sadly as you've found out, it's too big a risk

I would advise the expert assistance of a behaviourist to help you. A decent one will need a vets referral, so that should be your first stop. At the very least, it will show that you are taking the incident seriously and responsibly. It will also help you to recognise her stress signs and how to deal with her effectively when she is scared. 
Definitely get in contact with Doglaw too for specific legal help.....they have a very good reputation on here


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So sorry to hear about this incident. I think you do need to seek professional advice from someone who understands dog law so do contact doglaw on the link provided.
> 
> Its understandable that you are upset but the advice smokeybear has given you is good advice so try not to be defensive. The past history of the dog probably won't be taken into consideration by the court if it gets that far. My dogs are all rescues and as you can see one is a rottie, my previous rescue rottie was dog and people aggressive so it was entirely my responsibility to keep everyone who came in contact with her safe. Of course as owners we do make allowances for their past history and understand why that may explain certain behaviours but we can't expect the general public to do so as well.
> 
> ...


I agree with this post unreservedly, except that I'm not sure whether this would constitute accepting responsibility (same as in RTA's). I would want to do exactly this, and I don't doubt OP does, but I'm not sure how it leaves you legally. (Isn't it awful that we even have to think this way, and that any sympathetic comment or gesture can be used against us? Yes - we are responsible for the behaviour of our animals, but a genuine expression of regret should not place us in a vulnerable legal position, but it so often does).


----------



## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

Every dog owners worst nightmare to find yourself in this situation. 

I think at this point it's about damage limitation - or making sure that the law can see you are a responsible owner who will make sure that this sort of thing doesn't happen again. I have no idea how the law works for these things, but it can't hurt to prove yourself as much as possible. Comply with all of the recommendations given by the police. 

I am not sure a four foot fence is really dog proof unfortunately and would think about supervised access only to the garden from now on. Either that or a dog run perhaps if that is allowed? 

In your situation I would be muzzle training (get the dog to see it as a really good thing, if you need more help on that one just ask, they can learn to see the muzzle as something exciting rather than something restrictive and can play games when wearing them), make sure she is micro chipped (aka traceable, will be law soon anyway so might help your case a little) 

Do contact the people who have been mentioned - they are used to this sort of thing and really know what they are about. Also if your dog isn't insured it might be worth getting a membership with the dogs trust for the 3rd party insurance - it won't help with this incident, but I believe that the court sometimes says in these cases that a condition of keeping the dog is getting 3rd party liability insurance? Somebody correct me if that isn't the case? and obviously this will show that you are thinking responsibly.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

RoxyBaby said:


> *Are you sure about that? How do I know whether or not she was abused by someone previously? I find your comment ludicrous to say the least. Do your research and know that any dog that (maybe) has been abused will have certain behavioural traits. *
> 
> smokeybear is right, her past history is irrelevant, especially in this instance.
> 
> ...


You could have a gold plated padlock and a huge neon sign to tell people to shut the gate...ultimately the buck stops at you so you should have checked the gate before allowing your dog out. Unfortunately you have learned this the hard way!

I fully understand you are worried, but your best course of action will be to contact Trevor to find out where you stand legally.


----------



## RoxyBaby (Oct 28, 2014)

Thank you all for your advice. I'm definitely going to keep in mind sending the lady some flowers &/or chocolates.

Just a few points: My dog is ok with a muzzle, she will try to get it off but within seconds will settle knowing that she can't remove it. I'm not insured and she is micro-chipped. 

She's a big dog and I know that in itself can be intimidating to someone who does not know her or her temperament. My heart goes out to this lady that she bit, she must have been terrified. 

My dog is not able to jump the fence, she cannot get over a 3ft stairgate. Despite this, I am looking into maybe extending the height but as I live in a rented place it all depends on my landlords approval. 

There is a bolt going onto the gate and I will be installing a postbox and remote bell push onto the fencing so no-one has any need to even try to open the gate without my presence. 

I cannot leave my bins outside the fencing as this is not allowed. I will be leaving the bin bags on top of the bins so that the binmen only have to reach over to get them. 

I've tried to think of everything to prevent this happening again. Once again, your advice is appreciated and I will contact the people on that link first thing tomorrow. I'm still waiting to see what the police are going to decide to do about this so its kind of in limbo at this point. 

I am complying fully with what the police have asked me to do and I'm by no means avoiding any responsibility, she is after all, my dog and that poor lady did not deserve this and did nothing as far as I know to aggravate her.

Thank you


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

RoxyBaby said:


> *Are you sure about that? How do I know whether or not she was abused by someone previously? I find your comment ludicrous to say the least. Do your research and know that any dog that (maybe) has been abused will have certain behavioural traits. *
> 
> You have had your dog three years, you have not said there have been any previous incidents and thus if you are trying to allege that this one is caused by something that occurred over three years ago you will be on very shaky ground. You are entitled to find my remarks as ludicrous as I find someone who would leave a dog unattended in a garden with only a 5ft fence and an unlocked gate! Very irresponsible
> 
> ...


The police will not be doing anything at the moment until all the evidence is collated as it was not a life threatening injury.

I have given you advice, the fact that it is not palatable to you is neither here nor there.

Your acts and omissions will be taken into consideration regarding what action, if any, is taken against you and your dog.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

lostbear said:


> I agree with this post unreservedly, except that I'm not sure whether this would constitute accepting responsibility (same as in RTA's). I would want to do exactly this, and I don't doubt OP does, but I'm not sure how it leaves you legally. (Isn't it awful that we even have to think this way, and that any sympathetic comment or gesture can be used against us? Yes - we are responsible for the behaviour of our animals, but a genuine expression of regret should not place us in a vulnerable legal position, but it so often does).


It is irrelevant in this case.

There is a vast difference between criminal and civil law.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

RoxyBaby said:


> Thank you all for your advice. I'm definitely going to keep in mind sending the lady some flowers &/or chocolates.
> 
> Just a few points: My dog is ok with a muzzle, she will try to get it off but within seconds will settle knowing that she can't remove it. I'm not insured and she is micro-chipped.
> 
> ...


you would need to leave your dog inside your flat when the bin men come.
if they lean over your fence, she is likely to try and bite them.


----------



## wannabe dogowner (Feb 24, 2013)

RoxyBaby said:


> She's a big dog and I know that in itself can be intimidating to someone who does not know her or her temperament.
> *Apologies as this will sound blunt but you seem to be in denial a little here. Her temperament is reactive to certain people in certain circumstances to the point of biting. However friendly she is most of the time, she is aggressive at others it is not a case of her size/breed intimidating people! *
> 
> My dog is not able to jump the fence, she cannot get over a 3ft stairgate. Despite this, I am looking into maybe extending the height but as I live in a rented place it all depends on my landlords approval.
> ...


The police have told you that she must be supervised outside from now on. I'm confused as to why you should be considering spending money improving post/bin arrangements when you have agreed to their stipulation not to let her have unsupervised access from now on?
Not doing as they have told you would be a very dangerous and stupid thing to do. If you do not comply with their wishes, your dog could end up paying with her life...
Hopefully, I have misunderstood your post


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

wannabe dogowner said:


> The police have told you that she must be supervised outside from now on. I'm confused as to why you should be considering spending money improving post/bin arrangements when you have agreed to their stipulation not to let her have unsupervised access from now on?
> Not doing as they have told you would be a very dangerous and stupid thing to do. If you do not comply with their wishes, your dog could end up paying with her life...
> Hopefully, I have misunderstood your post


OP could still supervise but the extra improvements just give further peace of mind.

For instance, the dog could be out, muzzled, with OP watching her, when someone pushes the gate open, or some daft kid tries to climb the fence to retrieve a ball or something - the dog might still lunge at whoever it was, and even muzzled a rottie could knock someone flying. If the gate and fence are secured, the OP can relax a little knowing that an unexpected intrusion will not happen.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

RoxyBaby said:


> I've tried to think of everything to prevent this happening again.


It really is as simple as making sure you supervise your dog when she is outside, as you have told the police this I would stick to that plan because god forbid it does happen again I can assure you that the police won't take it lightly.

FWIW I have fully enclosed back garden (well I do when the builders aren't in but that is another story lol) with a 7ft fence all the way around...I still do not allow my dog out in the garden without me.


----------



## wannabe dogowner (Feb 24, 2013)

lostbear said:


> OP could still supervise but the extra improvements just give further peace of mind.
> 
> For instance, the dog could be out, muzzled, with OP watching her, when someone pushes the gate open, or some daft kid tries to climb the fence to retrieve a ball or something - the dog might still lunge at whoever it was, and even muzzled a rottie could knock someone flying. If the gate and fence are secured, the OP can relax a little knowing that an unexpected intrusion will not happen.


 I suppose it all depends on the definition of 'supervised' though....
To me it would mean either on lead/longline or me standing guarding the gate area if offlead. Personally, nothing less would be enough to keep my peace of mind.

To others it might mean simply being outside at the same time, where I agree extra measures would help


----------

