# Flat Chested Kitten Syndrome



## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

Following on from the Royal Canin thread, we've had two kittens with FCK, in separate litters from our stud and one of our Queens and both have died.

I'm thinking that this syndrome is definitely hereditary.

An ethical question:

If this were you, bearing in mind she's also had 12 healthy kittens, would you continue to breed from this pairing?


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> Following on from the Royal Canin thread, we've had two kittens with FCK, in separate litters from our stud and one of our Queens and both have died.
> 
> I'm thinking that this syndrome is definitely hereditary.
> 
> ...


Speaking just from an ethical point of view (Im not a breeder) I would say that if you have had 12 healthy kittens then that outweighs the two that had flat chests. I guess it depends on whether you are comfortable with it or not.

Sorry I can't be much more help. I know its a distressind condition but maybe its only going to occur now and again and may not at all. Perhaps do another mating and see what happens with the litter!

Good luck.

Izzie


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Yes it is hereditary - or at least there is a hereidtable component, it seems they now think environmental factors play a part as well.

Inherited disorders in cats - BURMESE

I recall two flat chested kittens from when I was breeding Burmese before - one died, one survived, I think (it was a long time ago).

So both your queen and your stud carry this gene, which is not good news. What you do depends on how important their genes are to you. It doesn't look (from a quick google search) as if there is a genetic test. Your best bet, assuming you don't want to lose the genes you have (which I quite understand) would be to send that queen out to stud in future and make sure you send her to a stud that has never produced a flat chested kitten, and to only use queens with your stud that have not produced flat chested kittens. Also you are morally obliged to disclose the fact that your stud has produced flat chested kittens, if you let anyone else use him, and certainly you are morally obliged if you sell kittens on the active register to declare that they may carry this gene. And obviously, if a flat chested kitten survives it must not be bred from.

Liz


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

lizward said:


> Also you are morally obliged to disclose the fact that your stud has produced flat chested kittens, if you let anyone else use him, and certainly you are morally obliged if you sell kittens on the active register to declare that they may carry this gene. And obviously, if a flat chested kitten survives it must not be bred from.Liz


Hmmm that raises some other questions.

The stud has not had any flat chested babies from our other Queens so I was tending to think that it was the mum who carried the problem. Would he definitely carry this problem and does this mean that the breeder who sold him to me has a problem in their lines?

There's no problem with him being used as a stud as that was forbidden in our contract.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Initially they thought it was a simple autosomal recessive condition. They now suspect environmental factors as well as a genetic component but unless the view has completely changed on the mode of inheritance - and as far as I can see it hasn't - then yes your stud is a carrier. And if you bought him in then the breeder needs to know. She will probably be very unhappy about it and it is quite posible that she might not even have know it was a possibility if she has never bred a flat chested kitten.

What to do? Well, the short answer and the best solution is to remove both these cats from your breeding programme and start again. However I am very well aware of the desire to keep a line going and also of course you have no guarantee that you won't buy in the same problem again if this is in the breed - recessive genes can be carried, in theory, for an infinite number of generations (but the probability of course becomes smaller and smaller the further down the generations you do).

If it were me, I think I would be looking to replace the cats concerned as soon as possible - with their own progeny if you want to carry on the line - and then have a policy of moving on to the next generation every time you produce a flat chested kitten, because every generation gives you a 50% chance of getting rid of this gene, assuming only one parents carries it and, of course that you are not bringing the gene in from anywhere else. The difficulty is that you can't know whether a kitten you want to keep carries it or not, it is a gamble. The only way you can be reasonably sure is to do several test matings to a known carrier. If you never get a flat chested kitten then you can be confident that the cat you are test mating does not carry the gene. You are going to need several litters before you can be sure.

I am sorry this is happening to you, I am sure it will cause you some distress before you are through.

Liz


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

lizward said:


> I am sorry this is happening to you, I am sure it will cause you some distress before you are through.
> 
> Liz


Hi Liz,

It's one of those things I guess.

I have no problems retiring the Queen, we'll keep her as a pet anyway as she's gorgeous 

I'm not too sure about the stud though as I'm not sure where he could go and as the problem hasn't occurred with any of our other Queen's I'm reluctant to retire him yet.

From what I've read (see here) and understand of this, if it is an inherited problem then it could just be from mum which does seem more likely at this point.

I certainly don't think it's caused by the environment in our cases.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

With both parents being carriers then you will get 1/4 (3.5/14) flat-chests (not far away from the 2 out of 14 that you have), one half will be carriers (7/14) and the last 1/4 (3.5/14) of the kittens will be normal and non-carriers. Obviously these numbers are probabilities, so any percentage of affected or carriers or normal is possible in a litter as the numbers are too small to be significant. 

One problem with flat-chested kittens is that many grow up to be completely normal, so unless breeding cats are seen and felt as young kittens a breeder may in fact end up breeding with a flat chested kitten, if the breeder who sold the kitten for breeding is less than ethical or lacking in knowledge. If one parent is flat-chested then bred to a normal then all will be carriers, if bred to a carrier then 1/2 will be flat chested. 

In order to have flat-chested kittens your stud must carry the problem, and at least one of his parents will be a carrier too, and 1/2 of his brothers and sisters will be carriers too, some may even be flat chested if both his parents are carriers.
Your stud, if bred to queens who don't carry then 1/2 will be normal and 1/2 will be carriers. Your girl will have a similar family history and potential.

As Liz says recessives can be forever, just like a snow or a marble may pop up in lines where you don't expect, then so can flat chests, but if they do then both parents are carriers.


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

So this is wrong?

*Genetics* - It may be an hereditary trait where the kitten inherited FCK from one or both of his parents. They may not have FCK themselves but may be carriers of the genes that cause the condition.

http://www.thecatsite.com/Health/90/Flat-Chested-Kitten-FCK.html


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> Hi Liz,
> From what I've read (see here) and understand of this, if it is an inherited problem then it could just be from mum which does seem more likely at this point.


I suspect the writer doesn't have too much idea of what she is talking about, I'm afraid. The only possibility for inheritance from one parent would be a dominant gene and if that were it then all the kittens would be affected or at least liable to be affected.

This article is worth a read:

http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/FCKSVeterinary.pdf

Naomi, what do you think?

Liz


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> The only possibility for inheritance from one parent would be a dominant gene and if that were it then all the kittens would be affected or at least liable to be affected.


I am not Naomi, but I too think that it most likely to be a recessive condition, and therefore you have to treat it as such. 
You cannot blame only one side of the pairing. Just as if a cat gives you marble kittens with one queen and only spotted kittens with three others doesn't mean that it is only the queen that carries the marble.

As I have said, bred to an unaffected/non carrying cat then a carrier will only produce carriers or normal kittens so all will appear normal, none will be flat-chested, so if your stud is a carrier, as is suspected, then that would fit completely with the results of matings to other girls who are *probably* non-carriers, (though you cannot be entirely certain without test matings).


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I've had some experience of FCK and although I believe there is a hereditary component, it's certainly not as simple as that. Other factors may be involved - environmental as you say, and possibly uterine infection too. 
Of the FCKs I've had, i think it's probably about 60:40 in favour of survival, if they are going to die it usually happens by 3 weeks of age.

I would not repeat a mating that produced FCKs and I agree that you do need to inform anyone wishing to use your stud that he has produced FCK. I would not sell any kitten for breeding from a litter where there is FCK, although I would take the risk of keeping a kitten myself. I've done this in the past and not had FCK appear again.



lizward said:


> Yes it is hereditary - or at least there is a hereidtable component, it seems they now think environmental factors play a part as well.
> 
> Inherited disorders in cats - BURMESE
> 
> ...


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I really don't believe that it is a simple recessive gene - the frequency is too low for that, in my experience.
It would be totally unethical to sell a FCK for breeding.



lauren001 said:


> With both parents being carriers then you will get 1/4 (3.5/14) flat-chests (not far away from the 2 out of 14 that you have), one half will be carriers (7/14) and the last 1/4 (3.5/14) of the kittens will be normal and non-carriers. Obviously these numbers are probabilities, so any percentage of affected or carriers or normal is possible in a litter as the numbers are too small to be significant.
> 
> One problem with flat-chested kittens is that many grow up to be completely normal, so unless breeding cats are seen and felt as young kittens a breeder may in fact end up breeding with a flat chested kitten, if the breeder who sold the kitten for breeding is less than ethical or lacking in knowledge. If one parent is flat-chested then bred to a normal then all will be carriers, if bred to a carrier then 1/2 will be flat chested.
> 
> ...


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