# Every now and then..............



## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

............you manage a good picture. This one fades to dark one side, and to light the other, and leaves the colours and curves in the middle. Didn't mean it, but just the way it turned out. Not pop-art, but pup-art.


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Winter sunshine, through glass, gives these are nice feel. It was still cold outside, but these look snug. A couple of nice pictures, for a February day.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2018)

Oh look! A puppy farm enguin


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Oh look! A puppy farm enguin


Perhaps time for some advertising?


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2018)

MilleD said:


> Perhaps time for some advertising?


apparently....


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

MilleD said:


> Perhaps time for some advertising?


That'd be against forum rules


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

:Yawn

Moved on to poodle crosses now I see?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)




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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Nothing more than some nice pictures. Just thought that I would share them.


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Give it another week- and I'm going to need longer legs!


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I shall assume that the above litters parents were DNA tested for POAG/PLL, MLS, NCCD, IGS, FVIID? 

Yes?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Oh look another breed. Words fail me


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> I shall assume that the above litters parents were DNA tested for POAG/PLL, MLS, NCCD, IGS, FVIID?
> 
> Yes?


This is actually a valid question- do you health test your breeding dogs @miljar?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Those pups need their claws trimming.


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Jesus - can't you just enjoy a picture! It's puppies, for Chrissake.

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/se...rl=/services/public/breed/health.aspx?id=1005
http://www.animalgenetics.eu/canine/Canine-disease/canine-IGS.html
http://www.animalgenetics.us/Canine/Genetic_Disease/NCCD.asp
http://www.animalgenetics.us/Canine/Genetic_Disease/MLS.asp
http://www.animalgenetics.us/Canine/Genetic_Disease/POAG.asp

The important word is "recessive", in this alphabet soup.

Are these test compulsary? I am not aware of any such law. There is certainly not the demand, but I suppose that that would be down to the cost - not everyone can afford the "money no object" attitude.
Well done to those who spotted the cross.

P.S. - The claws are trimmed - you only take the point off. Everyones an expert.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

miljar said:


> Are these test compulsary? I am not aware of any such law. There is certainly not the demand, but I suppose that that would be down to the cost - not everyone can afford the "money no object" attitude


No, the tests are not compulsory, but are carried out by conscientious breeders.

Backyard Breeders tend to be all about the money, as you have mentioned above.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

miljar said:


> Jesus - can't you just enjoy a picture! It's puppies, for Chrissake.
> 
> https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/glossary/screening-scheme.aspx?breed=1005&id=DNA+test+-+FVIID&ReturnUrl=/services/public/breed/health.aspx?id=1005
> http://www.animalgenetics.eu/canine/Canine-disease/canine-IGS.html
> ...


One day it may well be law, how do you (& other breeders of your ilk) plan on getting around it when that happens- with all the different breeds & crosses you're selling I imagine you will have a hefty payout!

It's not just breeds, but crosses that are at risk of inherited diseases, as the very same website you've quoted tells you here, in the very first sentence:

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/health.aspx?id=6153

Using the excuse of 'most inherited disorders being recessive' frankly isn't good enough- what about HD, ED, LP, CM/SM & the conformation issues that bassets & shar peis can have?

I don't understand how anyone who is a member of this forum & has access to so much information about how to make better, more ethical breeding decisions wilfully chooses not to.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> One day it may well be law, how do you (& other breeders of your ilk) plan on getting around it when that happens- with all the different breeds & crosses you're selling I imagine you will have a hefty payout!
> 
> It's not just breeds, but crosses that are at risk of inherited diseases, as the very same website you've quoted tells you here, in the very first sentence:
> 
> ...


Probably because the word ethical doesn't come into it. Its all about the money money money.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Probably because the word ethical doesn't come into it. Its all about the money money money.


Exactly.

When money is the driving force, ethics tend to go out of the window.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

miljar said:


> Jesus - can't you just enjoy a picture! It's puppies, for Chrissake.
> 
> https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/glossary/screening-scheme.aspx?breed=1005&id=DNA+test+-+FVIID&ReturnUrl=/services/public/breed/health.aspx?id=1005
> http://www.animalgenetics.eu/canine/Canine-disease/canine-IGS.html
> ...


So the moral of the story is that you don't health test because it would cut into your profits? Or are you implying people want cheap puppies rather than 'money no object puppies'?

I imagine your pups will go for around the same price as mine and mine will come health tested up to the eyeballs with a contract and a lifetime of breeder support?

Whilst recessive is the key word you can't guarantee a healthy litter without health testing.

At the bare minimum hips should be scored across the board on all breeds.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Seeing some of the conformational train wrecks that come from our very own resident puppy farmer I am surprised that the public still fall for this 
The pictures may have been removed but I still have copies of the upsetting BarShars/Norfolk Mountain dog....anyone that can justify breeding that mess is only in it for the money that can be made...the dogs are just a means to an end!

The OP sees cute money making puppies...I see a lifetime of issues for the dog and their new owners :Banghead


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> One day it may well be law, how do you (& other breeders of your ilk) plan on getting around it when that happens- with all the different breeds & crosses you're selling I imagine you will have a hefty payout!
> 
> It's not just breeds, but crosses that are at risk of inherited diseases, as the very same website you've quoted tells you here, in the very first sentence:
> 
> ...


One day it may well be law, - but not today. Personally, I can't see it happening - the enforcement would be just so difficult, and controversial, that I can't see a government wanting to get into it. Maybe a more likely way would be for insurance companies, who currently pay scant attention to health tests, to adjust their premiums to encourage people to go for the tested puppies.

how do you (& other breeders of your ilk) plan on getting around it when that happens. We wouldn't get round it, we would comply. I would point out that we are, as licenced breeders, the only ones that have to comply with laws now. Anyone else can just bang out a litter, or two, in the shed. It would cost, no doubt, but I would think that the return would be there eventually - there would be a lot less puppies around, and the prices would go up. If everyone is on the same page, then that would be fine with us.

Using the excuse of 'most inherited disorders being recessive' Words are weapons! I would say Using the fact of 'most inherited disorders being recessive' See what I mean?

I don't understand how anyone who is a member of this forum & has access to so much information about how to make better, more ethical breeding decisions wilfully chooses not to Because we are not looking at it the same way. Most of the "advice" comes from people of the "I don't breed, but if I did" perspective, like the Carlsberg ad.,who don't understand the full picture - they just find it easy to spend other peoples money.
The most important link in the puppy chain is the buyer, and they rarely get a good press on here - how many have joined, taken a bit of a lecturing, and left. They are the ones who decide everything, make no mistake about it, and so you have to produce puppies that the puppy buying public want, and at a price they are willing to pay. Simples, really, it's basic supply and demand. Anyone who thinks that the breeder has the power should actually try it. I produce puppies that I would buy myself, which is the basic guide I use, and the differing types is not an issue - they are just different breeds, not species, and the fundamentals are, well, fundamental - there are just practical differences to take into account. 
The other big difference comes when money is mentioned, and it seems that the accepted view on here is that money = bad, end of. Obviously I disagree, and I take the view that, when I sell a puppy, then the customer is happy, the pup is happy - and so I should be as well. If you want to breed puppies as a business, then you need to produce good puppies, they will sell best, and for the best price, and therefore they are the way to go - at least, it seems to be the way for us. Money is in every part of dog breeding/buying, and so to just dismiss it as some sort of evil means that you miss the point. If you carried out all of the myriad of health tests, and there seem to be more every day, then you would end up with a puppy that you could not sell and still show a profit. The demand is not there for this type of puppy - if it were, then there would be more of them around - back to supply and demand (money) again.
That is where we are today, and I look at it from a practical side. I am actually doing it, and so I have too. You are welcome to your more esoteric views, they are affordable if you don't have anything riding on them, but they don't do well in the real world. If they did, then they would be the norm - but they're not, are they?

This was just supposed to be a nice little picture, and ended up here. I'm done with it now, and I have dogs to take care of.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Oh my is it just me but those who have to follow laws because they licensed breeders are housed on saw dust which quite frankly I wouldn't use keeping rodents but it's acceptable for puppies...

The mind boggles


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

miljar said:


> One day it may well be law, - but not today. Personally, I can't see it happening - the enforcement would be just so difficult, and controversial, that I can't see a government wanting to get into it. Maybe a more likely way would be for insurance companies, who currently pay scant attention to health tests, to adjust their premiums to encourage people to go for the tested puppies.
> 
> You might want to consider the fact that dogs are considered 'chattel' (which surprises me really, as your attitude to breeding them makes them sound like mere products than sentient beings) & more & more buyers are becoming savvy to their rights & challenging the sellers when their products arrive faulty.
> 
> ...


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

Basset hounds x shar pei . Why the hell would anyone think putting those two breeds together is a good idea. This is what I hate now about the designer crossbreed culture, I don't care if it has a "cute" name, the puppies produced from some of these crosses are going to be conformational train wrecks and probably have a myriad of other health problems . But oh that's right these bybs and puppy farmers don't care about that do they, they only care about making a tidy sum

Rant over


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh the Irony.

You bred THIS!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

@miljar

I was a Breeder and a very ethical one. I bred the healthiest and most typical pups I could and was extremely choosy who actually got one of them.

You, on the other hand, churn out 'merchandise' and will breed whatever puts cash in your till, even if that 'product' is sickly, deformed pups.

Many people who are looking for a pup are ill informed, naïve and totally unaware of how pups should be bred.

You are cashing in on that. The only one not paying the price for your shocking breeding operation is you.

I have no respect for you and what you do. If I had the power you, and every other money grabbing charlatan like you, would be closed down tomorrow.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

"I don't health test because I can sell puppies without to the unwitting public that I will also not do my part as a breeder to educate about health concerns because then I wouldn't be able to sell to them, and I don't care enough about the welfare or well-being of the dogs once they are out of my care, unless I can make a profit."


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

Rafa said:


> Oh the Irony.
> 
> You bred THIS!
> 
> View attachment 353708


Oh dear . I was wondering what they look like


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

There is a "demand" for child pornography and crack cocaine but that doesn't mean we should supply them just because the "consumer" demands it.


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