# At wits end with kittens behaviour!



## gatsby (Jul 7, 2012)

I have a 4 month old kitten, have had him for two months. I've never dealt with a kitten before and understand them to be very rambunctious. But this one seems to be a demon. I have tried every trick to stop him misbehaving. By misbehaving i mean attacking, clawing and biting, chewing and poop flinging. The attacking is the worst, i understand kittens can get confused when playing and go a tad overboard, but he can be laid down, or eating his meal one minute, then wrapped around my arm, claws and teeth dug in the next. The chewing i also expected, but not for him to act like a cirque du soleil acrobat in order to get to a certain piece to munch on. I now have no sealant around my windows as this seems to be the tastiest thing in the world to him. The poop flinging is a recent thing, i've been locking him in his room for an hour at a time when i catch him being naughty, and when he's used his litter tray i find his poop kicked out next to his tray. I've tried hissing, water spray, flicking his bum, rattling coins, separating him from the situation, everything, he's just not learning. Is this normal behaviour!? Am losing patience and am thinking of shopping around for new owners. (even though i wouldn't wish an animal like him on anyone)
I must also add that when he is in the mood for cuddles he is the loveliest cat ever, but that 5% of the day doesn't make up for the rest of the 95% nightmare.
Sorry for the novel, and thanks for reading! Any advice/information would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## nightkitten (Jun 15, 2012)

You got him at 8 weeks which is far too early so he never learned to socialise properly. You now have to teach him this behaviour.

How?
Hmm, I'm not an expert but will try to help from my own experience with one of my kittens who would suddenly attack.
I never used my hands when playing with the kitten. Always use a toy, preferably something on a stick with string so your hand never gets involved in the play. When she did attack I pulled my hand away immediately and said NO. I did not shout but said it loud and firm. Then I walked away and ignored her.

How often do you play with the little one and for how long? Kittens need at least 1 hour of play in the evening. I play with mine 30 mins in the morning and in the evenings I play with them about 3-4 times for at least 20 minutes. They too have toys that make it possible for them to entertain themselves.

They still tried to redecorate their room by tearing off the wallpaper :mad2: So I started to clicker train them. This has worked wonders. They are engaging their brain and getting treats for good behaviour. 

Btw, my old cat loves mastic too. He has now got his own piece that he adores. But you could give your kitten maybe a chicken wing to chew on?

I don't think locking the kitten in a room on its own will change anything as he will only get bored and then get into mischief...see the poo flicking.

As said, I'm no expert but maybe there are some useful ideas here for you?


----------



## Skyclad (Jun 14, 2012)

Please don't get rid of him! I can totally sympathise with what you're going through.

I had this problem with one of mine, and was in the same position as yourself about 3 months ago. (See my original thread HERE)

It may seem like a silly question, but what are you feeding him? In my case the constant grumpy, anti-social, vicious behaviour turned out to be something as simple as tummy ache. Spid seems to be the expert on this, but basically a lot of the cheap foods (ie the supermarket brands) contain a lot of bulking agents like grain etc. This in turn can give the cat tummy ache, which in turn makes them constantly miserable (which was the problem with mine).

Switching my kitty onto a high meat content complete food pretty much cured the bad behaviour overnight.

I can recommend THIS FOOD All of our cats are on it and thriving. Even reduced the biohazardous poo odour too - which can't be a bad thing!


----------



## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Agree with nightkitten.My raggie had not been properly socialised as a kitten,long story but with lots of great advice both from the forum and a pet behaviourist I managed to turn him around.
Lots of praise for good and ignoring the bad is my advice.No playing using hands as toys,use dangle pole toys,ball throwing anything which engages him in interactive play.If he bites try to distract him by throwing a toy if that doesnt work ,stop playing and walk away ignoring him totally.Return after 5 minutes and start playing again,repeat as often as you need to.Make sure everyone does the same ,consistency is very important.
Please dont flick his bum/spray with water or shut him out for ages it just wont work,he needs to learn by association what is and isnt acceptable something his mum would have taught him if he had stayed with her a bit longer.Every time you respond to him biting by reacting to it he see's that as you joining in which encourages him to continue,if you stop what your doing and walk away he will realise that it doesnt get him the reaction he is looking for.It will take a bit of work but if I could change Meeko from a fiend I'm sure you can good luck


----------



## gatsby (Jul 7, 2012)

thank you all for your replies.

I only lock him away for an hour because he bombs around for about ten minutes then goes to sleep, so i wait for him to wake from his nap before i let him back out. no point in disturbing him!

He has tonnes of toys, 3 cat trees, 2 play circuits, balls, everything. i always play with those feathery stick things, never with hands. 

I have tried all of that, walking away when he attacks, ignoring him, it stops him, but then 2 minutes after, he's back again. I have done all these things for a solid 2 months, he's not learning at all. only this past week have i been putting him in his room (where he sleeps at night) as a punishment.

I feed him iams, i wouldn't say he's grumpy, if he is it's some kind of grumpy i've never encountered. i'm using iams as a leeway to applaws, having started him on whiskas. didn't want his tummy to be upset by such a large switch in richness. His temprament is anything but miserable, it's like he's on acid!


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

even foods like Iams have grains and additives in - and cats can't digest grains and can make them grumpy or have behaviour issues. I would swap him over to a high quality WET food if you can and if not then onto Applaws dry asap. I bet once the grains are out of his system he is better behaved. 

Flicking his bum isn't going to teach him anything other than you hurt him at times. If he is making a mess in his tray it is possible that it isn't big enough for him. Try a covered tray with a door - that way when he digs to china the litter stays inside the tray. I promise you he isn't doing it to be naughty. 

When he bites etc - blow at his face (fairly gently) and then leave him. Personally I would remove yourself rather than him as in removing him you are giving him attention and thats what he wants. SO walk away - it only needs to be for a couple of mins - you don't even need to leave the room, just take your attention away. 

He is only 4 months old, he is still a very wee baby. Give him, time, love and patience and he will turn into a loving cat. See if you can get him neutered asap as well, that will help.


----------



## gatsby (Jul 7, 2012)

I will try the change of food, but he isn't grumpy at all!

He uses the litter tray just fine, no litter on the floor, well a little bit but that's when he tracks it out. He covers it over walks away, then goes and flicks it back out.

I've done the blowing/aversion thing hundreds of times, trust me i've tried everything backwards and upside down. He's just not learning.


----------



## Skyclad (Jun 14, 2012)

gatsby said:


> He uses the litter tray just fine, no litter on the floor, well a little bit but that's when he tracks it out. He covers it over walks away, then goes and flicks it back out.


Could it be that he's particularly fussy about his litter tray? I know that if Splodge (my Calico) found anything more than 1 tiny "deposit" in her tray, she'd flick it (and half the contents of the tray) onto the floor next to it so her tray was pristine again.

We got hooded trays for the cats in the end (with carbon filters and all manner of fun stuff), which stopped the mess and smell. Just have to be extra vigilant with her tray or she won't use it cos she can't flick stuff out :tongue_smilie:


----------



## nightkitten (Jun 15, 2012)

If his behaviour does not change even after switching the food maybe you want to consult a cat behaviourist?

I thought I'd done everything possible trying to introduce my kittens to my resident cat and was at my wits end after 2.5 months. I consulted a cat behaviourist and with her initial tips we have made progress in just 2 weeks! 

Please don't give up on him just yet :001_unsure:

Edit: If he is insured some insurances even pay for the cat behaviourist!


----------



## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I found the behaviourist excellent.She came to the house and just watch his behaviour for over an hour noting down his reactions to certain situations,she then went through what she had observed and explained how I should or shouldnt react to certain situations.It was money well spent I assure you,but do be careful if you do decide to try this,make sure you use a qualified ,registered member of the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors, too many people set themselves up as behaviourists without any training at all and can make matters worse.


----------



## gatsby (Jul 7, 2012)

I suppose i can only try.

He's just driving me utterly crazy. Everyone keeps saying give him time, he'll grow out of it, keep doing this and that. There are only so many times you can get up to remove him from somewhere he shouldn't be. 
The moment i stand up he goes to get down, which shows he knows i don't want him there. His newest place is the top of the bookshelf to chew my ornaments. Which is both dangerous for him and my things!

I suppose i really wanted to see if there were any other owners of special needs animals out there. If you tell me this kitten is normal, i very much doubt your sanity! lol!


----------



## nightkitten (Jun 15, 2012)

Number one rule when having kittens:
Do not leave anything in their reach which is valuable to you  

Kittens are worse than toddlers. They want to explore everything. And I mean this literally. While a toddler sits in the sand pit tasting sand your kitten will chew everything. Kittens try to get into tiny holes, up on the curtain rails, cupboards, into the washing machine (always check your washing machine before turning it on!), into boots, sofas or wherever you can imagine. 

A kitten is hard work as you have already found out


----------



## buffie (May 31, 2010)

For long enough my house looked like it had been burgled.All breakables were in drawers,work surfaces were never kept as clear and everything was always unplugged and/or put away when to in use.It has kind of returned a bit more to normality but even then you can never be sure what they will do next.5kg's of Ragdoll up the top of the curtains chasing a spider for example


----------



## Skyclad (Jun 14, 2012)

nightkitten said:


> Number one rule when having kittens:
> Do not leave anything in their reach which is valuable to you
> 
> Kittens are worse than toddlers. They want to explore everything. And I mean this literally. While a toddler sits in the sand pit tasting sand your kitten will chew everything. Kittens try to get into tiny holes, up on the curtain rails, cupboards, into the washing machine (always check your washing machine before turning it on!), into boots, sofas or wherever you can imagine.
> ...


I can't agree more. Much as I hate to play devil's advocate here, a lot of the behaviour (chewing, biting, clawing, hyperactivity, getting into EVERYTHING) is just "normal" kitten behaviour.

I have 3 - all of the same ages - and there are times when I am tearing my hair out. When they're tearing round the house or fighting in one giant "kitten ball" sometimes I despair. Even when I threaten them with "the shelter", they just look at me with their "yeah right" expression and carry on. 

Talking to friends who have grown up kittens, the response is always the same.... "they're worse than kids". BUT... I wouldn't be without any of them, because when they're not acting like they're possessed, they're the most affectionate, loving things in the world.


----------



## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

Maybe you are not cut out to be a kitten owner?
It sounds as if you only really like your kitten when he is sitting quietly being cuddled.
I am afraid that is not normal kitten behaviour any more that it is normal for a child to sit quietly all the time.
Climbing on shelves, running about on the furniture, leaping up the walls is just what kittens do.
If you don't actually like him 95% of the time consider finding him a new home - he deserves someone who loves and wants him.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Gatsby -- you mentioned at the beginning of your thread that you have not had a kitten before. Kittens come in all *shapes and sizes* when it comes to behaviour, some are quite docile and learn quickly, some are a handful and take longer to learn. It depends on their genetic inheritance largely, same as with humans. But the right environment can have a calming influence on an overactive kitten. 

I think one problem may be that you have reached the point of exasperation with your kitten, and you are almost at zero tolerance levels. However, he will be sensing this, particularly if you are punishing him in ways that hurt him or alarm him, and this will make him more anxious and edgy unfortunately. Cats are extraordinarily sensitive to our moods! 

I definitely think,echoing what Spid & other posters have said, that it would be worth reviewing his diet. The food you are giving him might not be making him "grumpy" as such, but could be making him over excitable due to an uncomfortable bowel. I would, as suggested by Spid, cut out all foods containing grains. Feed mostly wet food such as JWB, Natures Menu, Grau Sensitive, or Bozita. 

Perhaps you could see it as one final push to socialise the little fellow, before
you decide to give up on him? But I would try and be as calm as possible if you can, as he will pick up on that And for the time being put away all your breakables for safekeeping


----------



## gatsby (Jul 7, 2012)

Thank you all for your advice, i was hoping someone would tell me worse horror stories to make me feel like he wasn't so bad. 

Out of the 7 cat owners i know who've met him, all have walked away wishing me the best of luck, because none of them have met a thing like him.

I just want to make it clear, by locking him up, i mean with toys and litter, food water, everything. I am by no means mistreating him. I do love and want him, i just cannot understand why he's not learning after a thousand times of moving him on and ignoring him to stop doing what he's doing. 

I did expect a kitten to be a handful, i did my research, i was ready to lose sleep and a few soft furnishings. But this is a whole other story. I wish i could send him to you all for a mini vacay, i bet you'd send him back within an hour. lol.


----------



## buffie (May 31, 2010)

gatsby said:


> Thank you all for your advice, i was hoping someone would tell me worse horror stories to make me feel like he wasn't so bad.
> 
> Out of the 7 cat owners i know who've met him, all have walked away wishing me the best of luck, because none of them have met a thing like him.
> 
> ...


Believe me,I do sympathise,I have been there,done that, worn out the t-shirt and I know what it feels like to have people tell you ,its normal kitten behaviour,he'll grow out of it ect.That doesnt help when your arms are dripping blood and you are being stalked by a mini tiger.
I was determined to see it through,but without the help of the folks on PF (once they realised I was not describing normal kitten antics),I could so easily have handed him over to a rescue centre.
Once I turned the corner with Meeko and I started to see the affectionate little boy inside the prickly coat I was even more determined to work with him for his sake as well as mine,and I have to say he is such a lovely boy, although he does still forget on occasions but I know it is just his way of playing and he actually is not being nasty.


----------



## nightkitten (Jun 15, 2012)

Hi Gatsby,

I have finally had the report through from my cat behaviourist and there are a few things in there that might be of interest to you too to stimulate your kitten and maybe him not being that naughty anymore:

Fun and stimulating environment at home:
Cardboard boxes with holes cut out of the sides fives endless fund as hidey holes. Cats like to have 'perches', a few wide shelves around the house serve as wonderful viewing areas. If you dangle down a piece of string with a ball or even some scrunched up newspaper, they will love it even more. Remember to think three dimensionally and periodically replace items. Mobiles can be made from CDs and hung up. These will move with the breeze and reflect light which cats enjoy.

Although hide chews for dogs are normally too hard and too tasteless for cats to chew on, they can be adapted to be more palatable for cats. Giving a cat a chew can help with some behaviour problems. The hide chew needs to be soaked in hot water until it becomes softer and can then be flavoured with a few drops of oriental fish sauce to make it more palatable for your cat. The chew needs to be of sufficient size that the cat cannot swallow it whole. Alternatively, meat jerky, sold for human consumption can be used.

An Aerial plastic soap dispenser or similar plastic container, such as an empty Yakult bottle, punctured to make some holes and filled with some dry food will keep your cat occupied for hours.

Place food inside a toilet roll tube and stuff the ends with tissue paper for them to fish out. Stick several toilet tubes together with cellotape to create a 'stack' and place treats in some of the tubes.

And at the end, which I find funny, she said there are DVD's available to play to cats on the TV! They normally feature birds, fish, mice or insects. See www.kittyshow.co.uk

All these tips don't cost much so maybe worth a try.

And just on a note she said too that food can affect behaviour and you may be interested in looking at the Campaign for Real Pet Food, see Campaign for Real Pet Food. Avoid products that contain preservatives, colourings, flavourings or additives or made with 'meat and animal derivatives'.

That's all for now 

Good luck!


----------



## gatsby (Jul 7, 2012)

Thank you buffie for the reassurance!

Nightkitten- Thank you for the ideas, but if this kitten had anymore toys i think i'd have to move into the garage. lol. Since he's a chewer though the hide sounds like a great idea. Thanks!

I get all my pet things on petplanet, which is the best food i can purchase from there!?


----------



## nightkitten (Jun 15, 2012)

Good wet foods are:
Animonda
Grau
Applaws
Bozita (pate in tins)
Macs
Petnatur
Terra Faelis

(just to name a few)

I am not sure which one of these you can get from Petplanet.


----------



## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

nightkitten said:


> *You got him at 8 weeks which is far too early so he never learned to socialise properly*. You now have to teach him this behaviour.
> 
> How?
> Hmm, I'm not an expert but will try to help from my own experience with one of my kittens who would suddenly attack.
> ...


since when is 8 weeks too early? you had better ring round all the rescue centres and let them know as they rehome from 8wks old 

some cats nevr grow up. Our previous cat Squeak was madder than a box of frogs till she was run over at 3 yrs old but she was from a farm, i miss the little nutcase  She would skitter up to you sideways all puffed up cooing like a pigeon :lol:

Our present cat Trouble is just beginning to calm down and she has turned 1. We got her at 8 weeks (gasp!), i have my Malamute and my son was only 3mths old at the time so it was madness in our house, but very worth it. they do normally grow out of it xx


----------



## catgeoffrey (Jun 28, 2012)

The poo flicking could just be a fussy cat!
Geoffrey our cat has a hooded tray and he digs a lot. But once he's done his business and covered it up he won't go back in there even for a wee unless the deposit is removed! Once I scoop it out he then jumps strait in for a wee - your kitty could just be doing the scooping for you? Try scooping his poo as soon as he does one and see if that helps?
I agree with the idea if food changing. We had aggression problems with Geoffrey at first but now he's on a high quality wet food with dry Applaws very occasionally and his behaviour is much better.
Geoffrey was a mentalist for the first 2 months we had him and got better over time with food changes. Hes also calmed down again once he was neutered a couple of weeks ago! 
Give it a go and good luck! :thumbup:


----------



## AlexTurley (Oct 30, 2011)

good luck  

they do grow oout of some of the things. if i think back to wen heffin was a kitten to now he has calmed down tons no more runnin straight up walls or climbing curtains or peoples legs. 

does your lil one sleep on their own accord? only askin coz my boy was away to early ( long story) but he never learned wen he needed to sleep - so even now at a year wen he winks at me or is barely standing awake i will carry him upstairs to my bed and sit on the bed while he falls asleep - sometimes i will close the door ( my bedroom has two litter trays his bed his toys and food and water bowls) and then in a hour go back up and he is usually crashed out still - it just gives him a chance to calm down and get some sleep. 
sometimes i lil stroke helps get him to sleep aswell.

also u could just add a feliway diffuser - helps with some of heffins things. 

just try to play with the lil one lots  my boy is REALLY naughty some the stories are terrible but i love him to pieces and wouldnt change it at all. 

oh and patience wen i get wound up with heffin he gets wound up with me 

only things i can suggest that iv had to do


----------



## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Starlite said:


> *since when is 8 weeks too early? you had better ring round all the rescue centres and let them know as they rehome from 8wks old*


Since it was realised and accepted that kittens only start to develop their social skills at around this age.There is no one more qualified to teach these skills than their mother and siblings.
Not all kittens will have behaviour problems if taken away too early, but if they do have then humans are just not very good at teaching the skills the way mum can.


----------



## wildaboutcats (Jul 2, 2012)

gatsby said:


> I suppose i can only try.
> 
> He's just driving me utterly crazy. Everyone keeps saying give him time, he'll grow out of it, keep doing this and that. There are only so many times you can get up to remove him from somewhere he shouldn't be.
> The moment i stand up he goes to get down, which shows he knows i don't want him there. His newest place is the top of the bookshelf to chew my ornaments. Which is both dangerous for him and my things!
> ...


Hi gatsby, I'm so sorry you are having such a bad time. Please do not miss-understand me, but i think he sounds great. I mean, it sounds to me, that he will be full of so much character when he is an adult and quite intelligent too!.

I've got 2 kittens at the moment myself, 6 months old, and they are just great. They are hard work, but is well worth it. Anyway, i can tell you what i do to minimise the "damage" . At 3 months i only let my kittens have 3 rooms (utility - where they sleep, the kitchen, i only let them in the lounge if i am in there with them!). To be honest my 2 play with each other all the time, so if you only have one kitten i think it may be a bit more demanding for you, because he probably wants a lot of attention.

Regarding the toilet problems, and i know this may sound a little weird, but as soon as mine did a poop i would get rid of it, so perhaps you may be able to try that, so he does not get a chance to kick it around. (i only did this, because the iams food did not agree with them ---or any other dry food come to that and it used to go straight through the both of them because of all the maize etc in it). They now get healthy fresh stuff, no rubbish. (However, it did not make them grumpy or affect their behaviour). Mind you i have never had a cat before that did this. Try and keep the toilet as clean as you can, even if it means doing it 5 times a day.

The other naughty behaviour, which is very frustrating for you, probably to them is just playing and one big fun game. Just try and have patience, and simply remove them from the book case, or what ever and play with them with their favourite toy and distract them from the naught things you do not want them to do. Kittens are very inquisitive/playful little darlings, and the more you get stressed by unwanted behaviour the worse it will probably get. So i all ways try and distract mine, and it works well most of the time. What ever you do don't tap their bottoms or nose, as this will not be understood by your kitten at all. Try and concentrate on the good behaviour (when they do some thing good - reward him for it).

I do not think 8 weeks old is necessarily too early either. Pedigree cats normally go from 12-13 weeks. I have had kittens before at 7 and 8 weeks and it made no difference to socialisation skills. My recent 2 i got at about 10 weeks. But then they where taken from the mother early and put in NAWT centre. They are absolutely fine.

Don't dispare! The more you play with him and keep him amused the better.

At the moment i have lots of toys for my 2.
----- a large cardboard box with lid sealed, and little windows cut in it on each side and 2 in the top, with cosy blankets in side. Evan a little curtain!
----- ping-pong balls.
----- 3 mice.
----- 10 plastic bottle tops that they love. Love shoving them under the fridge.
----- one plastic thing with 2 balls inside they can play with, they cannot get the balls out!  .
----- They love playing with runner beans and love to chew them.
----- a tent which was a free tent i got years ago for cats. Which they slide all over the utility room.
----- scratch post.
----- They love me throwing a large furniture cover over their scratch pole in the middle of the lounge so they can hide under it etc, i call it their wig-wam. They play for hours under this. :thumbup:
----- They love the radio!

Sorry about the long post!!!!! :001_cool:


----------



## gatsby (Jul 7, 2012)

Nightkitten- they do applaws, seeing as i've read alot about that on here, i'll give it a try. Thank you!

Starlite- Thanks for the reassurance. i'm not going crazy, yay! everyone makes out it's 'normal' kitten behaviour, but he isn't just a box, he's a shipping container full. Lol! He does that often, the sideways attack, accompanied with gremlin noises! never fails to make me chuckle!

Catgeoffrey- Thank you! It would make sense, he hasn't done it since, might have just been him rebelling, but if he does continue, i'll do like you say and remove it straight away!

AlexTurley- Yeah i suppose he does, when he's tired he'll come for a cuddle, and will usually end up falling asleep on me. Will have a look into the felliway, i suffer from asthma, so will see if it's okay to use! Thank you!

Wildaboutcats- He is a very intelligent little monster! The wig wam sounds like a great idea, he loves playing under the throw pillows and duvet, so will definitely interest him. Thank you!


----------



## AlexTurley (Oct 30, 2011)

i have asthma too and the feliway doesnt affect me 
but maybe a thing you would have to try the diffuser and then just see for yourself


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

AlexTurley said:


> i have asthma too and the feliway doesnt affect me
> but maybe a thing you would have to try the diffuser and then just see for yourself


I have asthma and the Feliway diffuser affected me very badly. Triggered an attack within minutes of switching it on, and left me with a tight chest for the rest of the day. I'd say be very cautious with it Gatsby.


----------

