# dog going nuts after long walk



## redgaz26

my pup is settling down very nicely, he's now 5 months old and gets plenty of exercise, but the thing he does after a long walk is confusing me.
I'll take his lead off in the living room and he will go nuts, runs around in circles, jumps on the sofa starts barking at me, this will last around 5 minutes then he will sleep for hours !! is this just the last of his energy getting used up or something else??


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## redgaz26

heres a pic of him when he's not going nuts !!


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## DaisytheTT

I am by no means a behaviourist or dog trainer, but Daisy used to do this when she was young. I couldn't believe that she still full of energy when she got back from her walk. She used to drive me to the brink - snappy, barking, tearing around like a mentalist but we (and this is personal experience) eventually put it down to overtiredness. Abit like you get with young children and they have had lots of stimulation but they are still playing you up and they need to go down for a nap. We ended up putting Daisy in her crate in her quiet spot and straightaway she would be out for the count but if didn't do that and we left her to try and settle down by herself in her bed/on the sofa she would go into descruction mode 

Perhaps worth a try, putting him in his crate (if you've got one) in a quiet area for a while and seeing if this works?


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## redgaz26

yeah ive tried that and it generally works, but I dont like doing that as i dont want his cage to be seen as a punishment for him as he sleeps well in it all night, hope that makes sense, on your point maybe he gets tooo much exercise, i take him out for maybe 2 hours at night, is this too much for a 5 month old pup


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## Pineapple

Hi, what breed of dog is he? He looks like a larger breed? 2 hours is definitely much too much & it's likely his behaviour when you get home is from being over-tired.

There's a general rule about exercising young dogs, which is that you walk the dog for five minutes per month of age, so for a 5 month old pup, that's 25 minutes of 'forced' walking a day (as opposed to other exercise he might get from running about playing off-lead).

If he is large breed, you need to watch out for his joints, over-exercising can put too much stress on them at such a young age and he could develop serious problems like hip dysplasia later in life.

PS- I would not worry about putting him in his crate if he's acting up after a walk, like a baby, young puppies need to be given a structure and told when it's time to settle down and rest. Most puppies will fall straight to sleep after being out & seeing lots of things, I doubt he will form a negative associate with the crate.


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## Helbo

The "going nuts" is definitely a sign that you're puppy is tired, and perhaps you've made them over-tired with a walk that's been too long or too energetic. 

I never stuck to the 5 minute rule really, but I did try to walk Charlie on grass as much as possible (i.e. soft ground) and I watched him very carefully to work out what the ideal walking time would be. You want to exercise your puppy, but not to tire them out. That's not what a walk is for. 

And don't worry about putting your puppy in a crate. Do it positively, with treats and a nice voice etc. It's just like putting a baby in a crib.


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## DaisytheTT

2 hours is too long. I also didn't stick to the 5 minute rule and I think we over did it in the beginning, although I don't think we walked Daisy for any longer than half an hour in one go and that was on grass, so I would definitely cut back on the exercise time.

I understand exactly what you say about not wanting to use the crate as you don't want him to see it as a punishment, but I think as long as you take him to it in a gentle manner, talk to him gently, give him a favourite toy and use a command that he will get used to like night night or nap or something which suits, he won't associate it with punishment but purely quiet rest time.

Daisy is nearly a year old and I still crate her if I have to pop to the shops. She now knows if she sees me getting my handbag out that I am going out and she's not and she will walk straight into her crate and she settles down. So they do learn that it is time for them to settle down and rest and not a place of punishment.

Good luck


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## redgaz26

had him out for 30 minutes there and he's settled down already!!


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## RobD-BCactive

Phew! Try to find him more play, and mental activities like training, rather than long distance walks. It's not that you're out for 2 hours, but more constant repetitive walking; if you hang out and watch the world go by at the weekend, rather than rush it can be quite calming (for both of you!)


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## redgaz26

RobD-BCactive said:


> Phew! Try to find him more play, and mental activities like training, rather than long distance walks. It's not that you're out for 2 hours, but more constant repetitive walking; if you hang out and watch the world go by at the weekend, rather than rush it can be quite calming (for both of you!)


oh no, he doesnt just walk, I go out with the kids we up the woods let him off the lead, throw sticks for him and let him generally run about and enjoy been out and about, I dont just walk and walk and walk and walk and walk:nono::nono:


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## RobD-BCactive

Good! Then I don't think 2 hours is too much. He had a great time, was excited to be back home, had some zoomies and then crashed.

I should get the kids to play hide & seek with him, and then have them tracked down. Sticks are actually a bit dangerous, the Vets don't like them as dogs have some nasty accidents. What you are doing, is probably great, I doubt if kids will walk too far for the dog (nowadays) 

Also mix in some training, where it's opportune. My yr old, will run next to cycle, play fetch dashing about, then if I give him a hide strip to chew, he's quite likely to apparently go mental with it, tossing it about and running round and round, chasing it but as if he was being chased. This despite, my idea being that he'd enjoy a nice relaxed chomp.

Funnily enough, I saw exactly the same behaviour in a young wolf, who happened on a nice stinky carcass to scavenge, when he'd torn out some bits of innards.


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## redgaz26

ok cheers for the advice, one thing though, if he's off the lead for a while sometimes he ends up biting me, going for my jeans or shoes, not sure if he's getting bored or just wanting to play, what do you think??


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## RobD-BCactive

Nipping or biting?

I had situation where my yr old, attacked my wellies (wet day). We were walking with a 14 week old beagle pup, he played with before. I didn't want to distract him with a toy, because the pup was likely to take interest.

He's not done that for ages, and I kind of put it down to the pup making him feel younger, and giving a license not to act grown up. May be I'm wrong, but he was kind of gentle in attack mode, so I am not worrying about it. He still "grips me" with a gentle tooth touch, if I cycle fast and he feels excited.


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## redgaz26

i'd say biting, he only does it sometimes, as if he wants back on the lead not sure really im sure he will grow out it


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## RobD-BCactive

Drawn blood, caused need for stitches? If your 5 month old really bit you, you'ld have gone to casualty for treatment.

When I look at those teeth, an unrestrained bite would do much damage. Just watch them sheer through tough rawhide or chomp through raw bones for example. It is amazing how good dogs' bite inhibition is, and how restrained they are, if you really think about it. I bet that puppy is a hell of a lot faster and more agile than you are for example.

What has almost entirely extinguished this once common behaviour in mine, was calm diversion onto a toy, and rewarding calm behavours. I didn't follow the often given advice to go apeshit, because I'd rather the dog nips or bites me, than someone else weaker.

Quite frankly considering their carniverous forebears, it is just totally amazing what dogs will put up with, and how restrained they are, when you consider how they are treated and their tolerance taken for granted by many people. Like keirk put it, you can do lots of nonsense things and they are plastic so long as you feed them.

So I would put money on it being playfullness, or you'ld be telling a really shocking story.


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## redgaz26

RobD-BCactive said:


> Drawn blood, caused need for stitches? If your 5 month old really bit you, you'ld have gone to casualty for treatment.
> 
> When I look at those teeth, an unrestrained bite would do much damage. Just watch them sheer through tough rawhide or chomp through raw bones for example. It is amazing how good dogs' bite inhibition is, and how restrained they are, if you really think about it. I bet that puppy is a hell of a lot faster and more agile than you are for example.
> 
> What has almost entirely extinguished this once common behaviour in mine, was calm diversion onto a toy, and rewarding calm behavours. I didn't follow the often given advice to go apeshit, because I'd rather the dog nips or bites me, than someone else weaker.
> 
> Quite frankly considering their carniverous forebears, it is just totally amazing what dogs will put up with, and how restrained they are, when you consider how they are treated and their tolerance taken for granted.


i agree, my wee one puts his head right into macs mouth then moans when he bites him !! i side with the dog !! im an animal lover had my old dog for 10 years , I stand up for the dog even when I shouldnt , i love kids and dogs much more than my fellow adults :tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie:


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## RobD-BCactive

So nip and playfullness then?

Did you do bite inhibition, when pup was young showing that those puppy teeth hurt? What shows me that my youngster is playing, is the exaggerated care he takes to be gentle with his teeth, even if he may sound a touch fierce.


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## tripod

Zoomies are seen in a couple of different scenarios but in a puppy/teenager I would associate it with stress due to being unable to calm himself in this situation.

Less physical exercise is an important step and more and varied mental exercise, especially impulse control work instead.

Your puppy, who is gorgeous by the way  looks to be of mastiff, bull breed type ??
Eitherway, he is of heavy build and at his age, when he is doing lots of growing and developing, two hours straight exercise would be contra-indicated.

But also large solid blocks of high energy exericse are not really advisable for teenagers especially.

Anytime you bring the dog 'up' you have to help them come down too. This can be done by practicing down or other relaxing positions, focus work such as targeting or simply giving him a food dispensing toy designed to keep him lying down/relatively still such as a frozen Kong.


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## redgaz26

mastiff?? I was told he was a staff but good advice thanks, yes I agree it takes him a while to calm down after being out, he really is a lovely pup and I love him dearly he loves getting cuddles and attention and also loves eating bones, I try take him out at least for 30 minutes 4 times a day minimum, I let him off the lead most times but sometimes he will start jumping at me and growl, when I put him back on the lead he calms down again , guess me and him are learning as we go !


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## shibby

redgaz26 said:


> mastiff?? I was told he was a staff but good advice thanks, yes I agree it takes him a while to calm down after being out, he really is a lovely pup and I love him dearly he loves getting cuddles and attention and also loves eating bones, *I try take him out at least for 30 minutes 4 times a day minimum*, I let him off the lead most times but sometimes he will start jumping at me and growl, when I put him back on the lead he calms down again , guess me and him are learning as we go !


Can't really add anything new, but just to echo some other posters, that definitely seems like a lot of exercise for a 5 month old puppy and I agree with the comments that suggest it is perhaps due to over tiredness. The Kennel Club advises 5 minutes per month: Exercise - The Kennel Club You have to be careful with them running after things and jumping about etc. because of their joints. I know with Staffies, they can just go on and on, but I'd limit the exercise. At 11 months ours has calmed down now and he will sit on the sofa/lie by the fire. I think you would notice a difference if you reduced the exercise. You definitely learn as you go along  Your dog is gorgeous btw, I love brindle doggies.


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## tripod

redgaz26 said:


> mastiff?? I was told he was a staff but good advice thanks, yes I agree it takes him a while to calm down after being out, he really is a lovely pup and I love him dearly he loves getting cuddles and attention and also loves eating bones, I try take him out at least for 30 minutes 4 times a day minimum, I let him off the lead most times but sometimes he will start jumping at me and growl, when I put him back on the lead he calms down again , guess me and him are learning as we go !


ooops its the big solid head and drop triangular ears that had me thinking mastiff but I did suppose bull breed too 

Given his type, self control work is even more important. Bull breeds, mastiffs and such types escalate through arousal _very_ quickly and will often find it very difficult to come down.

Perhaps substitute some of that romping exercise with some training and mental exercise sessions.

If you want to know more here is some stuff that might help:
some stuff on mothing and such: Nipping and mouthing and biting oh my! | Pet Central&#039;s Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!
lots and lots on calming, crazy behaviour and exercises to help: Crazy Canines | Pet Central&#039;s Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

Would love to see more pics of the little man too - I am a bull breed lover and they are the most adorable puppies!


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## RobD-BCactive

tripod said:


> Zoomies are seen in a couple of different scenarios but in a puppy/teenager I would associate it with stress due to being unable to calm himself in this situation


Don't they often happen, just because the youngster is happy? I've seen them after calming opportunities and relaxed lounging, and then the youngster having something palatable to play with/eat. You could end up saying, all activity is down to stress, when if you watch it it's clearly looking like joyful exuberance.

Obviously I'm thinking of highish energy breeds. It was in a new Nat Geo Wolves in Yellowstone on a long lived wolf with a non-confrontational survival strategy, that I saw basically typical Border Collie behaviour, so I particularly noticed it.


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## redgaz26

here you go, choose your breed ! im still guessing !


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## RobD-BCactive

redgaz, if you can get modern kids to do solid blocks of high energy exercise, could you explain the secret?


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## redgaz26

RobD-BCactive said:


> Don't they often happen, just because the youngster is happy? I've seen them after calming opportunities and relaxed lounging, and then the youngster having something palatable to play with/eat. You could end up saying, all activity is down to stress, when if you watch it it's clearly looking like joyful exuberance.
> 
> Obviously I'm thinking of highish energy breeds. It was in a new Nat Geo Wolves in Yellowstone on a long lived wolf with a non-confrontational survival strategy, that I saw basically typical Border Collie behaviour, so I particularly noticed it.


I really have no clue what that all means


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## RobD-BCactive

redgaz26 said:


> I really have no clue what that all means


That was addressed to tripod, don't worry. I just don't see my guy as "stressed" when he does it.

I am more concered that your guy is growling you at you off lead, but I guess the bull-terrier lovers, will comment on that.


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## tripod

RobD-BCactive said:


> Don't they often happen, just because the youngster is happy? I've seen them after calming opportunities and relaxed lounging, and then the youngster having something palatable to play with/eat. You could end up saying, all activity is down to stress, when if you watch it it's clearly looking like joyful exuberance.
> 
> Obviously I'm thinking of highish energy breeds. It was in a new Nat Geo Wolves in Yellowstone on a long lived wolf with a non-confrontational survival strategy, that I saw basically typical Border Collie behaviour, so I particularly noticed it.


In my original post I commented that zoomies will be seen in a number of scenarios. In regards to teenagers, and given the context in which the OP described the occurence I suggested what I suggested.

I don't see full on zoomies as 'happy' behaviour. I see them in overarousal situations, self calming situations and mainly conflict scenarios. Others' descriptions of an over tired puppies is apt.



> You could end up saying, all activity is down to stress, when if you watch it it's clearly looking like joyful exuberance.


Nowhere did I insinuate this. But we could analyse this further.

First off, stress is not always a bad thing - in everyday speak we tend to refer to stress as being a negative but this is oversimplification and inaccurate.
There are several levels of stress that can be measured in physiological terms and behavioural terms.
Stress is basically stimulation that puts demands on an individual to adjust to a particular scenario.
Eu-stress is another term for what is commonly referred to as mental stimulation - something that is viewed as beneficial as it enhances performance.
When stressors put demands over that which the individual is capable (over threshold) then we have a state of dis-stress.

Below threshold, happy behaviour includes loose, wiggly behaviour, sometimes escalated play behaviour (which in some breeds will form part of teh predatory sequences such as what you may be referring to regarding Border Collies).

Dogs are restrained animals and out of control behaviour (where there arousal threshold has been blown) is not pleasureable for them.

Over threshold behaviour is elicited by the physiological stress response, what is often termed the 'fight or flight' response. That threshold for many individuals is a fine line and as such they cross their threshold easily.



> It was in a new Nat Geo Wolves in Yellowstone on a long lived wolf with a non-confrontational survival strategy, that I saw basically typical Border Collie behaviour, so I particularly noticed it


Such as...?

It is of course likely that we will see lots of similar behaviour such as zoomies in other canids. Still doesn't mean that its not seen in over threshold scenarios.


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## RobD-BCactive

Yes, I think I agree, I just am wondering how on earth the OP gets the kids doing strenuous enough exercise of the "high energy unbroken block kind" lol

I was in the thread trying to steer the OP in direction of mental exericse, but without feeling guilt about what happened.

Basically we are hearing from a damn good puppy rearer here it seems to me, the dog is a lucky one... In my view 
Getting over tired once isn't likely to really harm long term or maim him, is it? If you look at our initial reactions, 2 hours in the dark, I think we all thought of a forced march, so I was really tacking back.


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## tripod

Absolutely, OP is doing great. But I think its a mistake we all make - giving our dogs too much to do at times and not bringing them down again, especially in this type of dog.

All normal puppy rearing Qs raised in this thread so hopefully the info will help lots and lots of pet owners


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## RobD-BCactive

I saw a thread started by swarthy on hip scores, where someone posted a study that suggested unlimitted feeding (hence extra weight) added to HD risk factor signicicantly compared to genetically similar litter mates on a restricted (75%) of unlimitted consumption group diet.

I've always wondered about ppl with overweight pups & young dogs, avoiding exercise so they don't strain their joints. Some Labs I have seen this last year are the shape of old fashioned pigs for market .. blah!


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## Malmum

Flynn used this around the garden when he was younger - he used to do it in the house at at his size things would go flying. He sometimes does it now but on the whole he's stopped - he now nearly three. I just thought it was him being happy that he'd just had a walk.


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## kat&molly

Mine do that mad 'wall of death' thing after walks sometimes. Scruffs 3 and Molly's 15 months.
I always laugh and get out the way before I'm mown down.
Molly did do it as a pup when she had gotten overtired though.


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