# My ill tiger barbs



## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

in my new 13 gallon tropical tank I have 3 tiger barbs and a red tail black shark, once it has cycled I plan on putting in more tiger barbs, but two of the three seem to have picked up some sort of disease. they still eat fine but most of the time they just float with their heads down leaning a bit, when they swim they are also leaning a lot.
can anyone help?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

How long did you cycle your tank for before adding the fish?


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

Ideally, you shouldn't be cycling the tank with fish, and I would certainly not be offering any food under such circumstances. Tiger Barbs are a fairly delicate species and the Red tailed Black shark shouldn't even be in there, as these fish require a minimum of a 4ft tank. 

The poor water quality as a result of cycling the tank with fish will have a knock-on effect on immune systems, and consequentely, the overall health of the tank's inhabitants.

I would seriously reconsider buying more fish, as your tank is currently overstocked to a certain degree, and look into returning some of the fish or investing in a bigger tank. In the mean time, perform plenty of water changes and if possible, could you post the results from some water tests (including ammonia and nitrate)?


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

there shouldnt be too bad ammonia or nitrite, the tank has only had fish in it for 3 days. I have also done alot of research about red tail sharks and they are fine with 10 gallon, and it doesnt seem to bad, do you have to cycle the tank before fish go in? i was told just leave it to settle for 2 days before hand, so I did 3 to be safe


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

The ammonia and nitrite will rocket within the next few days, mark my words, and this will result in some losses. The toxicity of ammonia rises with temperature and pH, so you have to be very careful in tropical systems. 

Before you add fish, you are supposed to cycle the tank, which can take anywhere from 2-8 weeks, however every tank is different in terms of biological and chemical 'makeup'. An alternative source of ammonia such as that in a bottled form (at 9.5% concentration) or fish food will spark the cycling process, you may also be able to obtain some mature filter media to add to your own, this is a method that is commonly known as 'seeding'.

I can assure you that the shark will need a bigger tank, despite what you may have read or have been told. These fish can grow to 15cm/6" in length, so imagine that against the size of a 13 gallon tank, the fish may be small now, however it will be fully grown before the end of the year. A small tank will result in stunted growth, which has adverse effects of its own, particularly to the development of vital internal organs.


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

ah I have to say I've never been told about cycling before fish go in, even with my other tank. However the shark is already 2 years old so should be fully developed internally, she seems very happy any way.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

Yes, the Shark should certainly be fully grown, in which case a larger tank will be needed.


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

from head to tail she is only 3.5 inches long


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

At that age the fish should be at least 5" long, which indicates stunted growth.


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

this is her and one tiger barb, one that is now ill


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

can anyone tell me what is wrong with the tiger barbs though


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## karlhague (Nov 14, 2009)

AngusChild said:


> can anyone tell me what is wrong with the tiger barbs though


The nitrate/Ammonia is high and is most likley posining them.

I learnd about fishless cycling the hard way mate, And trust me it takes a month to 6 weeks to cycle properly (where all the good bacteria grows and makes a tank healthy)

If it is the nitrate/ammonia your fish will Eventually Die.

They will be suffering .


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2010)

AngusChild said:


> can anyone tell me what is wrong with the tiger barbs though


Going by the photo, there appears to be nothing wrong from the outside, however keep a very close eye on the fish as high levels of ammonia and nitrate will cause problems. Keep your eyes open for any signs of flicking, gasping, laboured breathing, spots and fungus.


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

I have had a horrific past in my other tank, but I have never been told about fish less cycling With various causes I've accidentally killed more fish in 8 weeks that other people do in the whole year but i have never been told about fish less cycling. I once had an ammonia spike of between 4 and 8 and no fish died


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

would some thing like nite out be good?


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

When I got my fish tank well over a year ago, I set the tank up, left it for 5 days and then started adding fish, though not all at once, which my lfs told me to do.
I've never had a problem, all my fish have been fine.


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2010)

AngusChild said:


> would some thing like nite out be good?


I assume you mean the stuff my Microbe-Life. Unfortunately, such products rarely work, and chemicals that claim to 'remove' ammonia and nitrite only mask the substances or in the case of ammonia, convert it into the just-as-deadly ammonium (NH4) which can't be detected on normal ammonia (NH3) test kits.


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

all of the fish are fine and the tiger barbs seem to have recovered, so what could it have been


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

test results are

NH3 - 1 ppm
NO2 - just over 2 ppm

according to my LFS the spikes should have past and I have had no losses!


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## Fishyfins (Feb 28, 2009)

i hardly think after such a short length of time, that your tank will be anywhere near cycled. the full nitrate cycle the tank goes through when you first set it up usually takes between 4 and 6 weeks. 
in very simplified terms, during the first few weeks of biological activity in the tank, the ammonia levels will rise to a peak, and then start to trail off. when the ammonia trails off, it is actually being converted into nitrite, which rises, peaks, and then falls in turn. when the nitrite is trailing off, it is being converted to nitrate.
now, as ive said, this "cycle" usually takes between 4 and 6 weeks. this is proven scientific fact. there are very few methods or chemicals available that reduce this time limit. now, of course, during this time period, if there are fish in the tank, then the levels of ammonia and nitrite in the tank are gonna quickly reach very toxic levels, the effects of which you have described. ammonia is especially nasty, burning the gills and scales of the fish. even if the fish show no outward signs of discomfort, and look healthy, then they are probably suffering internal damage. exposure to high levels of ammonia commonly lead to a breakdown of the fishes immune system, leading to a slow painful death usually over the course of the year (with them looking heathly the full time).

so, as for your results, with you showing both Ammonia, and Nitrite, it shows your pretty slap bang in the middle of the cycle, which i would expect somewhere between 2-3 weeks. both chemicals are deadly and toxic from about 0.25-0.50ppm, so you can see that your levels are really not gonna be doing the fish in there any good, and your gonna have to take drastic action to help them out. i would suggest water changes of around 50% daily, for the next 2 weeks or so, just to dilute the levels of these chemicals down a little. it will slow down the rate of maturation in the tank somewhat, but at least the levels will be slightly safer for your fish.

and to finish, just a little advise: never pay much attention to what your LFS says, most of them are only out to make money. its a buisness to them. they advise you buy a tank, and stock after a few days. the fish get unhealthy, you go to them for expensive medication, it doesnt work and the fish die, you go back for more fish, they get sick.... its a vicious cycle they cash in on.


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

thats not all true, In my other tank there was an ammonia spike of between 6 and 8 ppm and no fish were lost, all + their off spring are still alive


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

AngusChild said:


> thats not all true, In my other tank there was an ammonia spike of between 6 and 8 ppm and no fish were lost, all + their off spring are still alive


Your fish were either very lucky or your test kit was faulty, an ammonia spike of over 4ppm in normal conditions would wipe nearly all of the fish out.


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

no - my friend had a spike of 4 and mine was between 6 and 8. my friend has never lost a fish


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## Helloween19 (Jan 20, 2010)

Fishkeeping - Fishless Tank Cycling and Avoiding New Tank Syndrome - General Guides - Articles

I would have a read of that, it explains fishless cycling and why it is important, and believe me it IS important no matter what most LFS's will tell you. And just because a fish survives a tank cycling it doesn't mean it's very nice for it at all, surviving is certainly not thriving.


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## AngusChild (Jan 13, 2010)

all of the fish are now ok. Would a few rainbow fish be good in this tank?


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