# is raw goat meat, ok for cats?



## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I&#8217;m very new to this raw feeding thing, but my cats are taking to it very well. I was at an Islamic butcher/grocery shop and the guy there suggested I buy goat instead of lamb as it was much cheaper and he said he sold a lot of goat meat to cat and dog owners for raw feeding. Well I fed it to my two cats and they seemed to love it, I would say this is their favourite raw food to date. 

So I just wanted to check that it was okay to give goat meat to cats, check I wasn&#8217;t doing anything wrong. I can&#8217;t say I am very familiar with goats meat. 

Just for the record I am not feeding ONLY goat&#8230; I have a complete mince diet in three different flavours for them, and I am still mixing with high quality commercial wet foods, so the goat would just be another angle to their diet&#8230; as well as being very economical for me. 

Thanks in advance.


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## Daisyandchlo (Feb 27, 2010)

I haven't tried my cats on goat, but don't know of any reason why it shouldn't be fed. My ferrets used to love goat. In fact, it was probably their most favourite meat


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Ok, I googled it and found several references to an increased risk of toxoplasmosis if one feeds raw sheep, pig or goat's meat. On the other hand, there are loads others that say that their cat goes absolutely wild for goat's meat so they are obviously feeding it. 

Maybe it will be a case of freezing it for a couple of weeks before feeding as one is supposed to do with rabbit, venison, quail etc? :


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Daisy and Chlo, same thing here... they seem to absolutely love it. I just gave them a choice between the raw goat meat, raw chicken breast or tinned Porta 21 tuna flavour they left the (bloody expensive) Porta 21 tuna and the fairly expensive chicken breast and went straight for the cheap-as-chips goat meat. Long may it last  It seems chewier than other meets I have given them, and they seem to love that. 

Hobbs, Ill be freezing it anyway as I bought about 3 kilos of the stuff. I am freezing all my raw into portions of about 100grams as Im still not 100% sure what they like and how often they like it. So right now theyre getting tons of variety. When I know what works for them Ill start freezing into bigger portions. I havent gotten as far as quail, rabbit or venison, but its good to know those things are preferable when frozen for a time. I am such a novice to this raw meat malarkey, its good I have you all to turn to for advice. They are loving it though. (p.s. I didnt really come across any new foods at the show on the German border, though I did get a lot of new stuff from the Animonda range which is going down well, and it was a good third cheaper at the show than on the zooplus.de website, so that was a plus for me too). 

Thanks to you both!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Great to have you back Tje! I have also just started feeding raw, so we are both learning! :thumbup:


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

They probably like the goat meat because it is higher in fat than most meats - a reason I don't like it! Mutton is also very similar and I've heard it said that sometimes what's sold as goat is actually mutton. Very strong-flavoured and oily, I really can't eat mutton at all! Have tried several times over the years and it even the smell of it cooking makes me feel nauseous. Which is weird, as I will eat all other meats including game.

My late Dad, being of an older generation (born 1930), used to love mutton and once bought in half a mutton sheep in roating joints for the freezer, when I was a teenager. Sunday roast was mutton every week for months but I really could not eat it at all. My parents were usually pretty strict about insiting we ate what was before us, but I just had veg every time mutton was on the menu.


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## sharon_gurney (Jan 27, 2010)

hi all

have been feeding some raw in the form of chicken breast, chicken wings, fish and minced beef, would like to try goats meat where is the best place to buy it?


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

I havent given mine goats meat yet. Not because i wouldnt but because the only place around here to buy it is a halal butchers and i dont agree with their slaughter practice.

I would think goat meat has similar nutritional properties as lamb but not so fatty. Just ensure (as always) they are getting adequate nutrition with regards to taurine etc and it will be just fine! 

As a thought, i was under the impression that it is against muslim beliefs to eat the organ meats (due to the high blood content, and i know not all muslims believe offal is bad). So you could ask them if you could have the goat hearts! They would be more than excellent as a supplement for a cat too!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Sharon G, I guess in the UK it would be like here, youd get goat meat either in halal (Islamic) butchers on are at markets and shops frequented by mainly foreigners. 

Merlinsmum, I know in India you will often see mutton on the menu, but it is not mutton as we know it from a sheep it is goats meat. I wouldnt order goat for myself intentionally but I do love a sheeps mutton curry, but I am not that against goats meat for myself what I cant eat is horsemeat. Its not the taste, its just the very idea of eating a horse that makes me ill. Pity though, cause horsemeat is cheap here and would be great for the cats, but I refuse to even think about it. 

BBsMammy, great tip about asking for the goat offal I never thought of that and will certainly ask for it next time!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Tje said:


> Merlinsmum, I know in India you will often see mutton on the menu, but it is not mutton as we know it from a sheep it is goats meat.


Yes, I know what you mean, I saw no sheep in India but goats were everywhere!

But I lived for about 18 years in a very culturally diverse part of inner London full of halal butchers, African and Carribean takeaways & shops. A very long street was thronged with almost nothing but butchers with meat hanging in the open air - it really was like taking a trip overseas. A lot of what was sold as goat was sheep mutton, I remember a local documentary on TV about it. There just wouldn't have been enough goats to go round all the places which claimed to have it in stock!

There were also some pretty gruesome things like smoked sheeps heads, and one stall in the market was successfully prosecuted for selling dried rare species imported from Africa... I remember once seeing one such item on a stall which had 3 claws on each foot like a sloth! They also used to have basket fulls of live giant African snails at certain times of the year, sold as food to the African immigrants! I rescued a few, but they never lived very long.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Found this for you:

Goat meat is much lower in calories and fat than other traditional meats. Now how that would compare to a cats "natural" prey meat (well i havent seen many moggies bringing down a cow lol) I dont know yet but this info gives you a table for reference. It also doesnt tell us which cuts of the meat they are, or the age of the meat but its a good rough comparision.

*Table 1. Nutrient Composition of Goat and Other Types of Meat1, 2 Nutrient

.................Goat.....Chicken.....Beef.....Pork.....Lamb 
Calories .....122......162..........179.......180......175 
Fat (g).......2.6.......6.3..........7.9....... 8.2...... 8.1 
SFat (g) ....0.79.....1.7 ..........3.0....... 2.9 ......2.9 
Protein (g)..23........25........... 25........ 25 ......24 
Chol (mg)...63.8.....76.0 .........73.1......73.1.....78.2

[1] Per 3 oz. of cooked meat
[2] USDA Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 14 (2001)*

edit: I found this info about the nutritional content of american wild game.

American Wild Game / Nutritional Value

OK so its not an exact science but to give you a couple of examples per 100g (3.5oz):

...........dove................squirrel
protein: 22g..................21.4
fat: .....1.8g ................3.2
chol:.... 94mg...............83
calories. 145................149

Now from a quick look the only thing i can see thats "wrong" with goat is the number of calories it contains. The rest stacks up much much better against natural prey species than any other commercial meat! I may have to change my mind about buying goat!

Hope it helps!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Not wanting to be a spoil-sport but please remember to freeze the goat meat before feeding raw. :thumbsup:


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Hi Merlinsmum, I doubt I am getting sheep mutton for this price. Mutton and lamb are not eaten much here at all (apart from in the immigrant community). This is a very big pork eating country. Its very unusual for instance to find lamb in a supermarket or regular butchers here. When you do find it, its extortionately priced. I went to the halal butcher looking for lamb (sheep) and the guy suggested goat because its cheaper. But I wouldnt know what a dead goat looks like, lol, so I can only hope it _is_ goat. Then again, the other raw I am feeding them are those readymade complete raw mince meats so I have the same element of trust with those too. Probably the trust with the readymade minces is even higher as I cant watch those being made. (I just hope he is not fobbing me off with horse meat or I will have a hissy fit and a fainting fit! ).

Hi BBsMammy, thanks for that list. It will come in very handy! Its so good to know that goat is actually quite good for them. I did think it looked very fatty, but obviously not.

I went back to me wee butcher man this morning to ask for organ meat and what do you think hed added organs already. The communication the other day was very hit and miss (lol, were both immigrants here), and I know I answered questions and nodded my head when I really had no idea what he was asking. He explained it better this morning. He sells a lot to cat and dog owners, and apparently hed asked me if I wanted my goat complete for cats. I just thought he was asking me if I wanted ground bones added, so I said yes. According to what he said this morning what he sold me is approximately 80% meat, 10% ground bones and 10% organ meat. For 3 kilos of this mix I paid 5 (say 1.70 a kilo). The ready made complete minces I started them on, I am paying 4.40 a kilo for those. So this goat mix is working out really cheap. But aside from the price, they do seem to really love it, and if its nutritionally good for them, well I am delighted on all fronts. The butcher man said he is getting some deer meet in this week and I am going back to him for some of that. He can do me 3 kilos of that (complete too) for 10 (and hes going to give me a free 200gram sample pack to try it out on them before I commit to the 3 kilos). He also said next time he will not mince all the meat, he will only mince half of it and the other half he will cut into chunks or strips as (according to him) they should be chewing more. lol I am glad I am have him and you all to mentor me on this. He also gave me 4 free necks from turkeys. He is quite adamant that my cats have been getting raw food for about a month now so hes determined they should be chewing.

BBM, if you do try goat out on your crew, please let me know how it goes down. It seems to be the favourite so far for mine. My older girl positively loves it. She was such a dry food and whiskas pouches addict, so its great to see her go wild for this goat.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Not wanting to be a spoil-sport but please remember to freeze the goat meat before feeding raw. :thumbsup:


you're absoultely not being a spoil sport... I need all the help I can get with this raw malarkey. :thumbup:

Incidentally, about this freezing thing... I'll be getting 200grams of deer (venison) mince to try out on them this week. If they do like it I will then buy 3 kilos of it (which of course I'll be freezing into small meal sized portions). However, the "trial pack" will be fresh (unfrozen), will it be okay to give them that fresh for just this once? I was planning to pick up the trial portion in the morning and if they liked it I was going to go back in the afternoon to buy the bulk pack. Should that be ok?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Wow, you are so lucky to have found a butchers that is offering you all those different meats! Mine doesn't even have chicken necks, he also won't mince the meats for me so I need to get them for a bit farther afield. I am jealous! 

I think I would err on the side of caution and freeze it all for a couple of weeks. But on the other hand, the once should be ok. :001_cool:


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Wow, you are so lucky to have found a butchers that is offering you all those different meats! Mine doesn't even have chicken necks, he also won't mince the meats for me so I need to get them for a bit farther afield. I am jealous!
> 
> I think I would err on the side of caution and freeze it all for a couple of weeks. But on the other hand, the once should be ok. :001_cool:


Well when I used the word butcher I think I might have been stretching the truth a bit , lol. Its a tiny little grocery shop, very old fashioned looking, a bit like Granvilles from Open All Hours (except ethnic!). Its a bit of an Aladdins cave and it sells everything from rice, pulses, pastes, tins, breads, flours, fruits, veggies, herbs and spices, to all sorts of shampoos and beauty products for immigrants with different hair/skin types  and they even have suitcases and household items hanging from the ceiling. But the wee owner man is definitely a butcher and he has a small butchers counter and from what I can see everything is whole carcasses kept in a big walk-in fridge/freezer space. I do feel quite lucky having stumbled upon it; its not normally the type of shop I would use. Dont you have anything like that in your town an area (or part of town) with mainly Asian and African immigrants? Chances are if you do, they might have a wee Aladdins cave type grocery shop that also sells this type of meat. I know if I go up to Amsterdam and into the poorer areas of the city where most of the immigrants live I can find loads of these types of shops, or stalls in the markets selling the same stuff.

I will err on the side of caution with the deer/venison. If I buy 3 kilos and they don't like it... well a 10 euro loss is hardly going to bankrupt me. And to be honest they are eating all the raw I put in front of them, just some need more "disguising" with cosma/porta/almo/bozita than others


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Fabulous that he has added the organ meat for you.

only one teensy area i would change now.

As you dont know the exact muscle (smooth vs skeletal etc) that is being added into the mince, nor the exact organs used (how much liver, heart, lung, kidney) etc I would err on the side of caution and buy some fresh hearts a couple of times a week. Lambs hearts are usually cheap as chips and easy to come by. This is purely because heart is an EXCELLENT source of taurine. The muscle meats should in theory be enough, but without knowing the exact ones used i would just be happier to add a couple of meals of heart to ensure they have enough.

There is also some evidence to suggest that mincing food depletes the taurine values of food, which is why its also best to err on the side of caution.

As for the chewing... yes they should be, but i have one here who refuses to chew meat chunks of any sort lol. What she will chew happily is whole cooked prawns (another excellent source of taurine!) and the occasional chicken wing. 

Taurine rich muscles tend to be the ones in use constantly. Tongue, heart, shellfish, cheek (amongst others) are all high in this essential ingredient. 

Hopes it helps xxx


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

BBsMammy,

this is probably a dumb question, but something like heart, do I give it whole or do I chop it up or what? Are there bits I should chop off and discard? (maybe it will be self-evident when I actually buy it and see it, its just right now I cant even picture what a lambs heart will look like, lol). Great advice though and thanks for it.

I think they should be okay with chewing as long as its chunks of _lean_ meat (as opposed to meat on the bone which they seem to be having trouble with, though it is totally new for them). They will eat chicken breast and stewing steak in chunks. The older one especially seems to like chewing.

(if you can be bothered with another question here goes)  I put the turkey neck down for them and apart from looking at it, and me, they both walked off looking at me like I was insane. Am I supposed to chop that up or do something to it? The butcher man said just give it as it is, but they are quite long things and I have the idea that my cats dont know what to do with them. I smeared some sauce from the bozita over the turkey neck and they licked the sauce off and left the necks, sprinkled parmesan flakes over it and they did the same. Is there some way I can kinda encourage them to have a go at it?

And something like turkey neck, Im assuming that wouldnt constitute a proper meal if they did eat it, it would just be a kind of inbetween meals treat thing? Or does turkey neck constitute a meal. (sorry for all the questions , I promise Ill shut up soon as I get the hang of it ).


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## dan138zig (Mar 20, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> I havent given mine goats meat yet. Not because i wouldnt but because the only place around here to buy it is a halal butchers and* i dont agree with their slaughter practice.*


sorry to go against the topic but as a moslem i wonder what do u mean by that?



Tje said:


> I put the turkey neck down for them and apart from looking at it, and me, they both walked off looking at me like I was insane. Am I supposed to chop that up or do something to it? The butcher man said just give it as it is, but they are quite long things and I have the idea that my cats don't know what to do with them. I smeared some sauce from the bozita over the turkey neck and they licked the sauce off and left the necks, sprinkled parmesan flakes over it and they did the same. Is there some way I can kinda encourage them to have a go at it?


same problem with me :thumbup:


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

I threw my chicken wings across the kitchen when they initially showed no interest at all  Other people once suggested accidentally dropping the food to stimulate the hunting instinct.

Have you tried chickenwings instead of necks? Just wondered whether that would be a good introduction to meaty bones. Alternatively, could you break the neck up in smaller chunks?


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

I mean by the fact that the animals suffer during the halal and kosher practices for slaughter. I have visited several slaughter houses and seen the different practices first hand.

Halal involves suspending the animal upside down by one leg, and cutting its throat to a certain depth. The suspension causes suffering as does the animals throat being cut and slowly suffocating. a beef cow can take up to 2 minutes (sometimes longer if the cut is not quite deep enough) to bleed to death.

If done accuratly to the right depth its considered halal, if not then its haram and becomes part of other meat production for non muslims. 

The practrice of the slaughter differs mainly from ours in one main point. Slaughter for non muslim/jewish people means the animal is stunned to unconciousness first. It is the law in this country to stun our animals to prevent suffering, however halal and kosher slaughter is currently under exemption. I cannot understand why a halal animal should have to suffer more than any other! I am also aware that several larger halal and kosher slaughterhouses in the uk are now adopting electrical stunning too, and these i applaud whole heartedly. 

I just want to clarify my feelings over the religious slaughter practice are not an indication of my feelings about those religions. Its purely about the unecessary suffering inflicted at the point of slaughter.



___________________________________________

TJE

you can chop, mince or feed the hearts whole. I would give them a rinse through (they tend to hold quite a bit of congealed blood), chop them or mince them to start with and gradually increase the size of the pieces over time.


turkey necks:
OK there are a number of thoughts through this. Turkey necks are weight supporting bones. Therefore they are much stronger and tougher to chew through than a wing or some ribs would be. The neck is designed to hold the head up. There is a greater risk of dental trauma (chipped teeth), choking and impaction (as they dont chew them small enough) with feeding weight supporting bones whole. 

Mine do get them, but only recreationally (to play with lol), and they have had them minced into their meat. 


For feeding whole bones these are what i would stick to:

Chicken wings
lamb ribs (cut the knobbly bits off)
chicken/turkey ribs
wings of other birds (pheasant etc).
whole small game carcasses (partridge, pidgeon)
whole small feeder animals (frozen reptile mice and rats)
small rabbit chunks with the bone in.

One thing you can try is to bash the pieces and the bones around with a rolling pin, to break them up and make them easier to handle at first. Many cats take a long long time to adapt to eating whole bones so its not going to be an instant process. Ensuring they have enough in their minced/chunked diet is essential until they are competent.


Good luck! xxxxx


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Hobbs, youve given me an idea. Ill tie some chicken wings on to a piece of string and tell the cats I bought them an organic da bird toy 

BBsMammy, again, much appreciated. What you say about supporting muscles makes a lot of sense. Ill let you know how it goes. Hearts, chicken wings and deer mince are now on this weeks shopping list.

Danzig, if you look at this link and scroll down to the paragraph headed controversies youll get a rough idea of the organizations in Europe opposed to the halal method of slaughter and a rough idea of what their objections are based on. Dhabihah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
Many individuals also share these feelings. 
Hope you get your kitties eating meat off the bone soon too. Maybe tying it on to a piece of string isnt that bad an idea lol. You try it first :arf:


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## HollyM (Feb 21, 2010)

Hi,

I too have just started my cat on a raw food diet and was wondering if you can only get goat meat in an islamic butcher as i have never seen it anywhere? Thanks


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Holly, I dont actually live in the UK, so not the best person to answer your question. The only places I can think of apart from Islamic butchers, would be markets or stores frequented by the West Indies/Caribbean population. Or maybe places where non-Muslim Asians shop? Sorry I cant help more, I do hope you manage to find it because (for some weird reason) my "newbies to raw" seem to love it.


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## dan138zig (Mar 20, 2010)

That Islamic slaughtering is painful is a well known myth (at least among Moslems). The view that it's inhumane is only based on how it looks to them, not scientific research. This post from a Birmingham Post reader sums it best:

The Islamic and Jewish method of slaughter involves a clean, deep and swift cut severing the major arteries in the neck. This causes an instantaneous loss of blood supply to the brain, and within seconds the animal is unconscious. It has been scientifically proven in studies published in Germany (German Veterinary Weekly, 1978) that during the seconds between initial cut to the neck and complete loss of consciousness, the animal feels no pain on EEG recordings of the brain.

Other methods of slaughter such as electrical stunning, asphyxiation, and captive bolt pistol use, have all been condemned for causing pain and stress to the animal.

Blackmore (1982) states that "electrical stunning of calves by the 'head only' method is inhumane in all circumstances", and Gregory and Watton (1984) in the British Veterinary Journal state that "head to back stunning involves a cardiac arrest in all sheep". Furthermore, Althen (1977) adds that "from the psychological viewpoint, the stunned animal is highly stressed".

To sum up, the Islamic and Jewish method of slaughter is physiologically the most humane and painfree way of slaughter. Dr Lord Horder describes the slaughtering of animals without the use of stunning as painless. He says "the animal loses consciousness immediately. It is difficult to conceive of a more painless and rapid mode of death. For a few seconds after the cut, the animal makes no movement. It's body is then convulsed. The convulsive movements continue for about a minute and then cease. The interpretation of this is clear. The cut is made by a knife so sharp and so skilfully handled that a state of syncope with its associated unconsciousness follows instantaneously upon the severing of the blood vessels, the rapid loss of blood, and the consequent significant fall in blood pressure. The movements of the animal which begin after about 90 seconds are epileptiform in nature and are due to the bloodless state of the brain (cerebral ischaemia with complete anoxaemia). Sensation is abolished at the moment of the initial syncope", (Symposium on Humane Slaughter and Euthanasia held at the Zoological Society, Regents Park, London, 1986).

In other words, immediate loss of blood supply to the brain leads to almost instantaneous loss of consciousness. Thus the animal feels no pain. The delayed 'anoxic convulsions' are a natural consequence of loss of blood supply to the brain, and occur well after the animal has lost consciousness. The convulsions are not in any way a cause of pain to the animal (although they may be a perceived cause of pain to the observant animal rights activists).

Birmingham Post - Blogs & Comment - Letters To The Editor - In defence of Islamic ritual slaughter


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

sorry danzig i completely disagree.

The suspension/inversion alone causes suffering.

IF what you said was correct then there would be absoloutly no need for laws which govern the insistance of stunning before slaughter. The only exception to this has been given on religious grounds. Scientists have completed research which meant that for common slaughter the animal must be stunned first to prevent suffering.

There should be no exeptions!

What is also rather frustrating is that for most methods of religious slaughter there have been exeptions made to allow for stunning before slaughter. Yet still it continues without.

I couldnt give a monkeys whether a person worships allah, jehovah, the moon goddess or the purple people eater! Animal welfare is animal welfare, no exeptions.

Quoting research from the 70's! my we are up with modern slaughter techniques arent we!

A study from 2003 - found that an animal slaughtered without stunning was concious for 2 minutes after its throat had been cut. This was given under advisory to the government and published under defra in 2004. The study is purely designed to assess the amount of suffering induced by the various slaughter methods. It makes interesting reading.

a copy can be found here:

EFSA ::. Opinion of the Scientific Panel on Animal Health and Welfare (AHAW) on a request from the Commission related to welfare aspects of the main systems of stunning and killing the main commercial species of animals

From their summary:



> Most animals which are slaughtered in the EU for human consumption are killed by cutting major blood vessels in the neck or thorax so that rapid blood loss occurs. If not stunned, the animal becomes unconscious only after a certain degree of blood loss has occurred whilst after greater blood loss, death will ensue. The animals which are slaughtered have systems for detecting and feeling pain and, as a result of the cut and the blood loss, if not stunned, their welfare will be poor because of pain, fear and other adverse effects. The cuts which are used in order that rapid bleeding occurs involve substantial tissue damage in areas well supplied with pain receptors. The rapid decrease in blood pressure which follows the blood loss is readily detected by the conscious animal and elicits fear and panic. Poor welfare also results when conscious animals inhale blood because of bleeding into the trachea. Without stunning, the time between cutting through the major blood vessels and insensibility, as deduced from behavioural and brain response, is up to 20 seconds in sheep, up to 25 seconds in pigs, up to 2minutes in cattle, up to 21/2 or more minutes in poultry, and sometimes 15 minutes or more in fish.


in 2009 the EU has launched proposals to ban the religious slaughter of animals without stunning.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

My stance on this is, I am not against the Islamic slaughter method, but I do think it causes the animal a lot more suffering than the methods we use in Europe. 

I have taken my pet horse to a slaughter house and watched her shot through the head with a captive bolt  she was in no pain whatsoever, it was a very quick and very humane. 

I have watched the halal method of kill/slaughter as Ive lived in a few Islamic countries  and while I wont say I find it cruel, I also dont find it that humane either. 

This might be a silly example, say my cats needed putting down and say the euthanasia fluid was unavailable countrywide for some reason. I would be perfectly happy having my cats euthanised with a captive bolt (providing of course it was a cat-sized bolt as the one for horses would go straight through their heads and come out the other side). I wouldnt however under any circumstances subject them to the halal kill methods. 

Danzig, would you be happy letting your beloved pets be put down using halal kill methods?


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

tje i think that sums it up perfectly for me. 

Sorry to hear about your horse , its always hard when we lose a loved pet regardless of the species.

Sorry for the thread hijak too hun! 

How is the meat going down? Are you a convert to raw yet?

sal x


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Oh the raw feedings going great (it was getting them off the high carb/filler ridden dry food and whiskas pouches that was the hard part, lol). And I dont see this as a hijack at all, I think its important we are realistic and as well versed as possible on where the meat comes from and how its slaughtered. I think it very relevant, certainly on a thread about goat meat in countries where the only goat meat we can find is generally halal. 

(and yes i would have say I'm firmly on the way to becoming a raw convert :thumbup.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

i know what you mean about weaning them off! I swear there is something addictive in the high carb foods! lol

Dont get me wrong, i still keep a small stock of whiskas/felix in the cupboard. Its very handy in tempting a cat to eat if they are especially addicted, traumatised, weak, hurt or recovering from surgery. Sometimes its about getting them to eat... ANYTHING! But then you know as well as i do (but perhaps others reading the thread dont) that it is essential for a cat to eat at least once in every 24 hours. The health implications for them not to are severe.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> i know what you mean about weaning them off! I swear there is something addictive in the high carb foods! lol
> 
> Dont get me wrong, i still keep a small stock of whiskas/felix in the cupboard. Its very handy in tempting a cat to eat if they are especially addicted, traumatised, weak, hurt or recovering from surgery. Sometimes its about getting them to eat... ANYTHING! But then you know as well as i do (but perhaps others reading the thread dont) that it is essential for a cat to eat at least once in every 24 hours. The health implications for them not to are severe.


totally agree, a big mac and fries has its time and place in my diet too... but I'd be the size of a house if I ate it daily, lol. 
(and so agree with you on cats and not eating... the hair on the back of my neck stands up when I hear people advice not to worry when their cat isn't eating...)

Hey Danzig, are you still around? I am still interested to know if you would consider the halal kill method for your pet cats (if for whatever hypothetical reason the usual euthanasia juice wasn't available). No arguements, honest. I am just interested.


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## dan138zig (Mar 20, 2010)

Tje said:


> Hey Danzig, are you still around? I am still interested to know if you would consider the halal kill method for your pet cats (if for whatever hypothetical reason the usual euthanasia juice wasn't available). No arguements, honest. I am just interested.


Yup yup, I'm back. Yes, if I have to choose a way to kill my beloved cat, I'd choose the Islamic method. The reason of this might disappoint you because it's not a scientific one. It's because I'm a Muslim and I believe that Allah knows what's the best painless method to slaughter an animal. Even though scientists say that it's inhumane, I strongly believe that human's knowledge is limited. Maybe someday there'll be a strong proof that this is the best method, although I think the Germans finding is strong enough. So I think this is a let's-agree-to-disagree thing.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

dan138zig said:


> Yup yup, I'm back. Yes, if I have to choose a way to kill my beloved cat, I'd choose the Islamic method. The reason of this might disappoint you because it's not a scientific one. It's because I'm a Muslim and I believe that Allah knows what's the best painless method to slaughter an animal. Even though scientists say that it's inhumane, I strongly believe that human's knowledge is limited. Maybe someday there'll be a strong proof that this is the best method, although I think the Germans finding is strong enough. So I think this is a let's-agree-to-disagree thing.


I dont actually _disagree_ with you. I was just interested if you felt it was okay for the meat you eat to be killed that way, but not for a means of euthanasia for your own pet. I wasnt a vegetarian in the Islamic countries Ive lived in, so I cant be that against the halal slaughter but I could never subject my pets to it. I suppose that's really hypocritccal of me, but it is the way I feel... I can eat halal with no problem at all, just couldn't even consider it for euthanasia for my pets.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Hey guys, you probably have seen this site already or already know most and more but it has some interesting info I think - about types of food, warming up, transitioning etc.

Practical Guide


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## Daisyandchlo (Feb 27, 2010)

My two had goat for their evening meal tonight (first time they've had it) and it went down a treat. I even managed to mix a bit of beef kidney in with it, no problem


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Well this thread has given me food for thought - no pun intended. there are a few shops here that do halal meat and I am wondering what might happen if I went in and asked if they have anything (scraps?) for my dog.

Weirdly though my dog has a fear of halal meat shops... he gets very uneasy and wary whenever we pass one (but is ok with normal butchers). No, it's nothing sinister.... it just so happened when he was a young puppy he slipped his collar and ran across the road (no moving traffic fortunately) but when I caught up with him it was outside a Halal butchers. He was terrified and shaking because of the escape, and he has forever associated the scent of any ehtnic food shops with something scary. Just goes to show you how sensitive some dogs can be!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

DaisyandChloe - great stuff, glad they liked it too. Im also going to be sneaking all their dont like so much stuff into the goat meat. I still find it weird. I mean I dont think I have ever seen goat flavoured cat food. Then again, never seen mouse flavoured either. Lol. 

Merlins mum, I dont live in the UK (were in the Netherlands right now, but prices for most things are pretty similar to the UK) and this goat meat was super cheap and it wasnt even scraps it was meat straight out of his display case . He took a piece of meat on the bone out of the display and weighed it and I paid for that whole piece even though he chucked most of the bone out and only ground about a third of the bone into the mix. Then he added some offal to the mix. For 3 kilos I paid 5, that's about £4.50 I think. He made a point of telling me it would be much cheaper next time if I ordered more. 

if you do try your lot with some goat meat, let me know how it goes, mine are reacting to goat in the same way I react to cadburys cream eggs


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Tje said:


> if you do try your lot with some goat meat, let me know how it goes, mine are reacting to goat in the same way I react to cadburys cream eggs


LOL! I will certainly ask in a few places here. Right now my cat & dog are spoiled rotten as my local butcher is selling frozen diced lean duck meat at £1.99/pound. I keep going in and buying a pound of it intending to use half and put half in the freezer, but always end up using half for me and splitting the rest between my two who gobble it up voraciously.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Took your advice today Tje - I went to a halal butchers with my friend who has student lodgers (her students are from Saudi). I asked about bones for the dog and the guy grinned from ear to ear, then pulled out two HUGE sections of lamb ribs, and another set of GOAT ribs! 

It seems they never get asked for bones, and are only too happy to give away as many as I could ever want, as they have to pay to get them taken away. At this rate I will have to buy a bigger freezer. 

They also sometimes have whole meaty chicken carcasses where they've just chopped off most of the meat from what they call "hard" chickens (cheap tough old boiling chickens). Considering muslims don't like dogs, he seemed absolutely delighted to help, and even asked if my dog was a big dog.

Thanks for the tip - now my only worry will be how to carry any bones home as the bag weighed over 4 kilos, the shop is a mile away and I don't drive


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

MerlinsMum said:


> Thanks for the tip - now my only worry will be how to carry any bones home as the bag weighed over 4 kilos, the shop is a mile away and I don't drive


That looks like a German Shepheard in your avatar picture thingy... well, if it was me, I'd be getting him one of those doggy back-pack thingies and he'd be carrying his own bones back from the halal butcher.  Mske him work for his bones, lol.

My wee halal-butcher man is such a sweety too... I even had him grind a bag of bones for me last week, and he didn't even charge for it!

Hope the goat goes down well.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Tje said:


> That looks like a German Shepheard in your avatar picture thingy... well, if it was me, I'd be getting him one of those doggy back-pack thingies and he'd be carrying his own bones back from the halal butcher.  Mske him work for his bones, lol.


LOL - he's a Belgian Shep cross Border Collie, so not quite as hefty as a GSD, I doubt he would manage 4kg! And seriously, the whole sides of ribs wouldn't fit into his backpack anyway. Maybe next time I'll ask him to chop them up a bit first!

The bones are very meaty so I will be able to slice some meat off for Cuba-cat... will see what she thinks of the goat.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

MerlinsMum said:


> I doubt he would manage 4kg! And seriously, the whole sides of ribs wouldn't fit into his backpack anyway. Maybe next time I'll ask him to chop them up a bit first!


my wee butcher man has a a circle saw thingy for sawing right through the bones (you know like you'd find at joiners yard) and he slices my bones down to a size where I can fit them in my tupperware freezer dishes (and again, he doesn't charge for this), mind you, it does only take seconds. (can you tell I am happy with my halal butcher, lol.)


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

I've seen saws like that at the bigger specialist halal butchers in London. But down here, it's just a few halal shops who have their own small butchery counter at the back of a shop selling other ethnic food. Still, they seem very happy to give away bones for free so I can't complain. I can probably break up the sections myself by twisting the bones apart & cutting between them using kitchen shears/scissors, but I am not looking forward to it... as I really can't stand the smell of goat or mature lamb!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Would a meat cleaver be good for dismantling the bones?


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