# the ugly faces... of THREAT



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

if U have one [or more! :thumbsup: ] feel free to add pix.

what do U see in this one that indicates serious, confident threat? 
[and by the way - i would not stand so close to this dog.  just sayin. ]


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

oh jeez he means business - why is the woman laughing? 

I see C shaped mouth, agonistic pucker, whiskers forward, horizontal contraction of the mouth/jowls meaning carnassials not visible but canines are, hard eyes, ears slightly back, movement of body forward, front limb raised, tension through neck and back...no tail visible.

Not a happy camper.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

There are lots here ..........

snarling dog pictures - Google Search


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

tripod said:


> oh jeez he means business - why is the woman laughing?


that was my thought - What's so *funny?* :eek6: strange.


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## Guest (May 1, 2011)

Okay....what is my Scorcher saying in this picture?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

eep. does he look serious to U?


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## Guest (May 1, 2011)

Kai bear.









Aiden.


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## Guest (May 1, 2011)

The funniest thing is Scorcher was not even pulling that face, she had been eating the ice cream next to her and licked her mouth which made her lips stick to her gums. (It happens at least 2ce a day).

Aiden and Kai both play fight pictures.

And check this out......









You would think I was running some dog fighting club..not my two silly moo's play fighting in the garden.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

i would not expect a bite from photo #1 - it's a warning, but i could defuse the tension by backing-up.


shetlandlover said:


> Kai bear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


#2 photo, OTOH, would scare the *#&*%$!* out of me. Hard, hard stare; facial tension, 
whisker-bed puckered, ears fwd, commissure fwd.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Okay... what is my Scorcher saying in this picture?


she needs a drink?...


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## Guest (May 1, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> #2 photo, OTOH, would scare the *#&*%$!* out of me. Hard, hard stare; facial tension,
> whisker-bed puckered, ears fwd, commissure fwd.


I must admit he's pretty scary using his play face.
That play fight was pretty funny he has a scary face yet plays innocent well.

























Other Aiden related play fights go as follows....
Scary...









Daft.....









Sneaky.....


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> That play fight was pretty funny he has a scary face yet plays innocent well.


his milk-teeth look like needles in this pic, :lol: How old is he, here?...

i'd guesstimate 12 to 14-WO, but it's hard to see any scale for body size.


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## Guest (May 1, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> his milk-teeth look like needles in this pic, :lol: How old is he, here?...
> 
> i'd guesstimate 12 to 14-WO, but it's hard to see any scale for body size.


8 weeks. 
He had only been with us for 3 days.

This picture was taken just 2 days before.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> 8 weeks... only been [here] 3 days.
> This picture was taken just 2 days before.


awww... :001_tt1:


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

All those pics have made me cry because I have never seen Mia do any of that. For me they just reinforce just how much difficulty she has in communicating and that is so sad. The only time I have ever seen her teeth is when she yawns or on the odd occasion when her lips haven't quite gone back over her canines. Even though she has growled a couple of times now, a massive step forward for her, she hasn't shown her teeth when she has done it.
Am I the only person that dearly wants to see their dog display a warning like that, just so that I know that she is unhappy and can show it instead of being in total shut down mode?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

my goodness.


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## Guest (May 2, 2011)

I'm not sure that Goldie is threatening.
This is mine playing









Could explain why the woman is smiling


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

*Oscar's ominous stare.* :blink:


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

He looks vicious, but..................................


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

rona said:


> I'm not sure that Goldie is threatening.
> This is [my dog] playing
> 
> 
> ...


Ur dog is intently looking up at [a toy? something] & is excited; pupils are wide, face & ears are loose and easy. 
look at the diff in facial tension & rigid body -


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## H0lly (Jan 31, 2010)

Oh i have a awesome one  

What do you think of this


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> He looks vicious, but...


they're playing - 
the bigger dog is lying down [self-handicapping to encourage the younger] 
the mouth is loose & face is open, both bodies are relaxed.  nice interaction.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

H0lly said:


> Oh i have a awesome one
> What do you think of this


manic, but definitely play - looks like zoomies!


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## H0lly (Jan 31, 2010)

Indeed , her daddy had just called her and she couldn't get there fast enough . I showed this pic to a family member and they commented that they was scared of it .....Stupid people


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Its amazing how easy it is to tell what they are on about sometimes. 
I have a 'smiler' at home and she bares her teeth for all sorts of reasons. The same teeth bare can mean, 'play with me, Mum!', 'Im not sure about this.....', 'stay away from my stuff please!', 'right, seriously...stay away from my stuff!!', and 'I will bite you if you dont push off!'. Its so easy to tell from body languagewhat she is saying though!


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## Guest (May 2, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> Ur dog is intently looking up at [a toy? something] & is excited; pupils are wide, face & ears are loose and easy.
> look at the diff in facial tension & rigid body -


Sorry but I can't see that that dog has a rigid body, it looks quite relaxed to me.
I can get my dog to put his ears back, go into a sort of crouch position and snarl, all in play. 
Difficult to capture on film though cos I can't set it up, it just happens sometimes


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

rona said:


> Sorry but I can't see that that dog has a rigid body, it looks quite relaxed to me.
> I can get my dog to put his ears back, go into a sort of crouch position and snarl, all in play.
> Difficult to capture on film though cos I can't set it up, it just happens sometimes


I agree with you completely.

I think for some people it's easy to see stuff which isn't actually there.

I would say its pretty impossible to know whats actually going on in a still pic


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Roobster2010 said:


> I think for some people it's easy to see stuff which isn't actually there.
> I would say its pretty impossible to know whats actually going on in a still pic


some are hard to tell - most are fairly legible; some are E-Z reading in large type. 

here's an excellent site for learning - 
The Canine Behavior Blog » Welcome to The Canine Behavior Blog

the play photos from the Netherlands, provided by a dog-walker there, are often very illuminating.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

with a very similar expression to the OP Golden.


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## Guest (May 3, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> with a very similar expression to the OP Golden.


They look completely different to me, they have a very straight leg stance and heads are raised. 
I really can't see that a Goldie with one leg raised and what seems like a fairly loose collar is "rigid". The way the head is held also doesn't indicate aggression to me.
Nervousness a slight possibility but not aggression


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

looking only at their faces, C-shaped commissure, 
facial tension, hard eyes, whisker-pad puckered, foreface wrinkled, 
incisors & canines everted [gums visible], rear teeth hidden by the forward commissure; 
frown between eyes on brow...

U see what U see; i see what i see. Tomato, tomahtoe...


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

see the difference at the commissure?...

what's the eye expression?

which one seems more-scared - & who has decided to bite, RIGHT now?!


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

View attachment 64295


View attachment 64296

Fraid this is the best snarly faces my pair can manage.  Although they certainly make up for this in the noise they make.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

what is the target's reaction in these 2 photos? 
[the Cocker in the first, the brindle in the 2nd].


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## Rolosmum (Oct 29, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> if U have one [or more! :thumbsup: ] feel free to add pix.
> 
> what do U see in this one that indicates serious, confident threat?
> [and by the way - i would not stand so close to this dog.  just sayin. ]


My first thought was his face looked like he was copying the expression on the woman!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

bird said:


> View attachment 64296
> 
> Fraid this is the best snarly faces my pair can manage.  Although they certainly make up for this
> in the noise they make.


# 5 did not work, altho #6 looks fine!  the liver-&-white dog is braced for impact from the blue-roan, 
but this is obviously play, nonetheless - the dog on the left just doesn't want to be knocked flying :lol:

could U try to reload the 1st one? i'd love to see it.


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

View attachment 64303


Think this may have worked now


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> what is the target's reaction in these 2 photos?
> [the Cocker in the first, the brindle in the 2nd].


The Cocker is pulling the same type of face that mine pulls when one of his older friends gets a little too bouncy "Oh will you just sod off I've had enough". The Brindle looks like he's being told off for encroaching on some cuddle time.


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

This is Kai's snarley face (im afraid it the best pic i can get :S) 
Its OH touching him...this is the face he pulls whilst growling when my OH touches him at night time....through the day their best friends but at night OH cant even walk past kai without getting growled at (ETA this is a recent thing...no idea whats caused the sudden night time agression towards men!)

Also, i dunno if this is of any importance but kai will nuzzle into OHs hand for strokes and then when OH does stroke he growls...whats that mean?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

*(No2.)* *Zara's ominous stare.*


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

who is playing? who is fighting? 
who is _*serious,*_ & who is questioning?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

bird said:


> View attachment 64303
> 
> 
> Think this may have worked now


yes! it did, thanks - nice play, active & energetic, but pretty loose-bodied, the roan has a curved spine, 
the liver-&-white dog is pouncing...


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

JJAK said:


> This is Kai's snarley face... best pic i can get :S)
> Its OH touching him... this is the face he pulls whilst growling when my OH touches him at night-time -
> through the day their best friends, but at night OH cant even walk past kai without getting growled at;
> ETA this is a recent thing... no idea what's caused the sudden night-time aggression towards men!


does it happen only if Kai is lying-down, as here, or if he is standing or sitting as well? 
is it only when Kai is on the sofa or other elevated surfaces? [bed, hassock,...]

does Kai react the same to other men - visitors, relatives?

how *old* is Kai? has he had his vision checked lately? 
vision problems are often the root of many odd behaviors at night - also, *sundowning* can be a factor - 
older dogs, just like older people, can become confused & this is often pronounced around evening, 
& less in daytime - there are meds for canine-senility which can help. :001_smile: 


JJAK said:


> i dunno if this is of any importance but Kai will nuzzle into OHs hand for strokes
> and then when OH does stroke he growls... whats that mean?


then i would not pet him. if he *demands* to be petted, i'd ask him to do something first - 
sit, lie-down, speak, something- then pet him ONLY in a low-threat place, where Kai can see the hand, 
avoid it if he wants, & then U ignore him again.  he learns that to be petted he must offer something, 
& a growl gets petting turned OFF.

low-threat places are areas like his forechest, shoulders From The Side [not from above], 
etc - petting the top of a dog's head, which is invisible & easily becomes a collar-grab or scruffing, 
can result in mixed-messages of both 'affection' & *'threat',* which can result in conflict-aggro.

interacting with him ONLY on his terms - EX, teach him *'on'* to come on his lap without being picked-up, 
& *'off'* to hop down from his lap without being touched - can also help.

if he has been scruffed or collar-grabbed to scold him verbally, that's enuf to taint some sorts of approach.

if he were mine, i'd see the vet - ask about his eyesight, & ask the vet if he has any cognitive decline - 
depending on his age; any dog over 7-YO can show brain-deterioration, but usually they're 9-YO or more.


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

in answer to your questions: 

He is 5, 6 this year.
It can happen if hes stood, sat, laying down regardless of if he is on the floor, sofa, bed, in the dog bed, infront of the fire. position and place doesnt matter. 
Weve been following the 'when he growls place him on the floor' method which has been working on the raised surfaces. 
The growling can also happen when OH isnt touching him. it has been known to happen from OH just walking past. The most recent one is kai will hide under our bed and growl when OH gets into bed. 
He has never growled at any other male be it a visitor or family member other than once when he growled at my little brother (13 years old) but hes never done it since..even in the same situation. 

This behaviour has been happening for the past...2/3 weeks. Started one night all of a sudden. it is only directed at OH, when kai is in mid growl i can pick him up and place him on the floor and he will stop if OH goes to pick him up and place him on the floor the growl intensifies and 'snaps' (doesnt make contact) when his feet touch the floor. 

Im at a total loss with it, i can see no reason why its started all of a sudden and dont have a clue how to go about sorting it before it gets completely (much much more) out of hand


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

JJAK said:


> This behaviour has been happening for the past... 2 [to] 3 weeks. *Started one night all of a sudden.*
> it is only directed at OH, when Kai is in mid growl i can pick him up and place him on the floor and he will stop;
> if OH goes to pick him up and place him on the floor the growl intensifies and 'snaps' (doesnt make contact)
> when his feet touch the floor.
> ...


i have no idea, but when behavior changes suddenly, the VET is the first stop - 
was he hurt, is there some trauma, is there arthritic change in a joint, a sprain...

after that, i'd give him a safe-place to go OFF the furniture - a bed of his own, a crate with a roof, something. 
going under the bed is a telltale for anxiety - dogs who are uncertain & worried want an overhead. 
confident, relaxed dogs can sleep belly-up on the floor.

*wherever his safe-place is, Hubby cannot GO THERE to get him - at all. 
call him if need be - potty-trip, etc - but Do Not go pick him up, walk close by, etc. 
hovering or leaning over him is especially to be discouraged.*

calmatives would not hurt, & may well help - see here - 
Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much...

but he needs a vet-checkup; hypothyroid is one distinct possibility, which requires a 5-way thyroid panel 
[a blood draw] sent to Michigan State Univ vet-labs for analysis. 
if the sample is borderline low for his breed, i'd ask my vet about a short trial of low-dose thyroid supplement;
usually 3-weeks is sufficient to show a change, if there will be one. if his behavior improves, there ya go. 
thyroid-supp is cheap but must be given lifelong - usually the dose is pretty easily established.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

*I guess it really does take an expert to read the facial expressions of a Sar'?*


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

This is Freddie in his *"size does not matter days"* too much of a fix to do a close up, and then reveal the reason for the straining forward with head turned to camera 

Nothing to do with the thread, I just couldn't resist posting a cute ugly face piccie


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

leashedForLife said:


> with a very similar expression to the OP Golden.


Oh crikey! :O
Wouldn't want to be stood in between those two. NOT HAPPY BUNNIES!


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> who is playing? who is fighting?
> who is _*serious,*_ & who is questioning?
> 
> View attachment 64312
> ...


In the first, I'm bothered about the white of eyes, and ears back, with the obvious display of upper teeth turning back.

Second looks tense to me to.

Third is interesting, lower front teeth and more relaxed eyes, with intersting turn up to side. Questioning?

The fourth reminds me of a BC heading off another dog, when they're running together. Hard to tell from a single shot snap, but I'd guess the pug is familiar with the play style and they both know they're playing.

The fifth is all action and movement, so whilst they're not focussed on biting, I wonder if the dog facing mostly away slammed into side of other?


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## Snuggles (Nov 17, 2008)

Zaros said:


> *
> *


*

That looks like a "back off, this is mine face" although I could be wrong. :lol:

Here's Tamba showing his pearly whites. 








*


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> who is playing? who is fighting?
> who is _*serious,*_ & who is questioning?
> 
> Here are my suppositions based on the photos
> ...


playing

Attached I have is the only example I have on camera


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

RobD-BCactive said:


> ...Freddie in his *"size does not matter"* days...
> http://img859.imageshack.us/i/sam0095crop2.jpg/
> Nothing to do with the thread, I just couldn't resist posting a cute ugly face piccie


i disagree, :lol: that's a very good example of a play-faced treat - 
his body is curved, tail is wagging, he's excited [ hackles] but the shoulder-slam & threat-face are play.

the choc-Lab is relaxed, self-handicapping [using head only to jaw-wrestle & neck to shove]... Fun!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Attached I have is the only example I have on camera


WOOF - the Golden is genuinely upset, very defensive - the Rhodie looks more surprised than anything else.
not a good moment - had they known one another long when this was taken?...


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Snuggles said:


> ...Tamba showing his pearly whites.


he's conflicted - WILL bite if he must, doesn't want to; ears akimbo. 
a dangerous moment, definite provocation or feels threatened, IMO.


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## Snuggles (Nov 17, 2008)

He was playing with this great big galoot. :lol:










This one was just after.









Then Tarky stopped for a drink. :lol:


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> i disagree, :lol: that's a very good example of a play-faced treat -
> his body is curved, tail is wagging, he's excited [ hackles] but the shoulder-slam & threat-face are play.
> 
> the choc-Lab is relaxed, self-handicapping [using head only to jaw-wrestle & neck to shove]... Fun!


Initially I tried to cut out the Choc Lab, and later show the "savage" puppy dwarfed by the laid back 1 yr old bitch.









"Hey, that little guy owns 'our' ball!" it was a human who exchanged toys soon after, so "Fetch!" could resume. IIRC the terrier was interested in ball until it stopped moving, and then was bored, I think the pup distracted the Whippet into dropping it, having watched most of the retrieve "outclassed" by the full grown dogs.









Size does not matter! Puppy self handicapping to! Sometimes they'd just dab their paws together.


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## Snuggles (Nov 17, 2008)

I like this thread, it's nice seeing photos capturing dogs body language and not posed like a lot of photos. 

Any thoughts on this one?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Snuggles said:


> [Tamba] was playing with this great big galoot. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tamba is not thrilled with the Malamute - he's a bit intimidated, this is tense play. 
in shot # 1, the larger & nearer dog is obviously playing - Tamba is defensive.

in shot #2, the bigger dog is lying-down - active appeasement, ears fully folded, commissure retracted, 
paw up to softly discourage Tamba from diving-in & biting, his eyes SQUINT softly, open groin with legs wide 
[like a puppy submissively rolling-over to show their belly to an adult & dribble urine]... 
again, self-handicapping to elicit play & reduce his threat, which is nice to see. 
*Tamba*'s body stands tense, face still tight, commissure fwd, whisker-bed puckered, ears akimbo, 
his neck bristles & there's mild hackling over his shoulders.

in shot #3, drinking is a displacement behavior - he's not really thirsty IMO.
ears slightly akimbo, ears back, Tarky lies in Sphinx-pose to spring to his feet, just in CASE - 
butt is flexed not relaxed, shoulders are tight, he bridles [chin down & retracted] vs bend neck & drink - 
he does not look at the water or bowl but keeps his eyes on the other dog, who conversely has relaxed: 
Tamba's mouth has closed but his face is open, ears are forward, chin flat on the ground, looks at Tarky with interest.

seeing the other 2 pix & the right-half of the original does not change my interpretation - Tamba's warning him. 
that Tarky wants to play does not convince Tamba that he's safe in #1 & #2.

whose place was this? 
i don't get the impression they're housemates or know one another well, tho it's possible they've met before, 
months or years ago, & are getting re-acquainted as adults.

did they meet as pups & have rarely met since, or is this a first or second or 3rd encounter? 
did they meet elsewhere [a beach or park...] & this is the first time they've met HERE - or it's been a while, 
since their last meeting here?...


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Snuggles said:


> Any thoughts on this one?


aww, that's CUTE - the blanketed larger-pup wants to play very badly & is happily excited - 
the wolf-grey is not sure, intrigued but uncertain... Hopefully the blk-&-wht dialed down his enthusiasm 
& the smaller pup began to play! :001_smile:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> who is playing? who is fighting?
> who is _*serious,*_ & who is questioning?
> 
> View attachment 64312


the Doxie is very frightened - & seriously warning IMO of a possible bite. 


> View attachment 64313


this is a delightful expression! :001_smile: i love the anticipation written all over this young Lab's face, 
like a kid looking at a Christmas tree & seeing Santa step out from behind it.


> View attachment 64314


the Dogue IMO is questioning - _'yeah? so whaddaya want?...'_ looks almost as tho somebody just woke the dog up, 
or as if surprised - maybe sniffing head-down & mouth open, & didn't have time to get that lip properly draped. 


> View attachment 64315


play - the mixed-breed [larger] is lying-down, to encourage the Frenchie to play freely. 


> View attachment 64316


this is a nasty fight; note the C-shaped commissure on the white dog, tail jacked way-up over the back, 
extreme tension in the white-dog's face & body; the white-dog is bracing the other dog's head & face away 
with that unseen right-foreleg, to avoid or prevent a bite to themselves.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Interesting, it's really hard to tell from a single snap!
Especially with the breeds one's less familar with.

I wonder if it's possible to do something similar with short youtube clips?


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## NoSpecialFeaturesHere (Nov 23, 2008)

Whaddaya think of this monsta?


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Bottom teeth showing mainly, head held above line of spine, looks alert and focussed on photographer, body "ready" to move but not tense or frozen, the wrinkling on upper muzzle looks just like, my dog when asked to "speak". Inquisitive?

Perhaps someone has an object that's being shown?


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## NoSpecialFeaturesHere (Nov 23, 2008)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Bottom teeth showing mainly, head held above line of spine, looks alert and focussed on photographer, body "ready" to move but not tense or frozen, the wrinkling on upper muzzle looks just like, my dog when asked to "speak". Inquisitive?
> 
> Perhaps someone has an object that's being shown?


Actually she'd just got a bit of grass stuck in her teeth. lmao.  Was a lucky shot.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Well I couldn't see the grass, there was defiitely something going on 
It's a cute pic!


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Interesting, it's really hard to tell from a single snap!
> Especially with the breeds one's less familar with.
> 
> I wonder if it's possible to do something similar with short youtube clips?


Here's a video of my two playing (or rather my boy dog trying his hardest to get the other to play with him ):

YouTube - The dogs playing

What ya make of it?


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Oh what aggro dogs! 

Nice playful interaction, though as you note, they're hoping for a game involving the humans to  They both seem to like being chased, it was Freddie's favourite with lots of dogs and he was a real tease with it.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

take a close look at the cat - then the dog. 

this is a very fraught moment, the 2 have very different intentions & interpretations. 
who is saying what, with which body-signals?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Okay, so I'll admit it. The first two photos may have been a little difficult to interpret therefore, in the name of fairness, here's something slightly more transparent.


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## pearl Button (May 12, 2011)

Boo saying ........


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## pearl Button (May 12, 2011)

look at the pearly on that lol


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## lucysnewmum (Feb 25, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> that was my thought - What's so *funny?* :eek6: strange.


i come across this reaction all the time from owners who think "oh...he is talking!", or "oh...he is putting you in your place",. or "oh how sweet, he is protecting me!"

it takes a lot of talking and persuasion of the gentle (and sometimes not so gentle) kind to get them to realise that a bite is a distinct possibility!


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## Sammy123 (Nov 9, 2010)

H0lly said:


> Oh i have a awesome one
> 
> What do you think of this


Hehehehehe, this picture made me laugh so much!!! It is just like from a zombie movie! Especially with these white looking eyes, lol.  
Put that picture on your doorstep and no one will ever burgle your house, guarantee! :nono:


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## Sammy123 (Nov 9, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> take a close look at the cat - then the dog.
> 
> this is a very fraught moment, the 2 have very different intentions & interpretations.
> who is saying what, with which body-signals?


Dog wants to sniff and the cat is obviously against it?  Dog looks quite relaxed so far...


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

pearl Button said:


> View attachment 65372
> look at the pearly on that lol


awww, but that's definitely play!  the Poodley-one has a relaxed face, commissure wide-open, 
the Springer's ears have popped back & up as they lift their face away from the under-dog, but the bodies 
are not rigid & the Poodley-dog has soft eyes.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Sammy123 said:


> Dog wants to sniff and the cat is obviously against it?  Dog looks quite relaxed so far...


pretty much! :thumbsup: except the dog wants to *play*, really play - 
& Kitty is not at all keen on that.

Kitty's ears are akimbo [conflicted, uncertain], tail has begun to bristle, definite Mohawk of piloerection 
clear down the spine, she's giving the dog a direct eyes-on-eyes stare, her sclera can be seen at the corner 
of the right-eye [white of the eye, visible when eyelids are widely opened by fear], her whiskers are *forward*... 
she's posed broadside on & is making herself bigger, next step would be arching her back & a bottle-brush tail.

i would bet the previous pic would be Kitty walking away, & *Tactless* over there on the right, pouncing, 
slapping forepaws down, mouthing her tail, back or neck, bouncing in & play-bowing intrusively, or similar. 

meantime, the GSD's mouth is slightly open, face soft, ears forward - curious, interested, but it could become 
intent & hyperfocused in a heartbeat. the dog's BODY is a nice loose curve, tail is a low sweeping wag, head down, 
one paw lifted [a common puppy soliciting gesture which persists into adulthood in many dogs].

the teen-pup [i'd guesstimate about 8 to 9-MO here] wants to play very much. 
the cat is felling quite defensive, probably because *Tactless* just invaded her personal space, 
& is not in the mood for play - maybe later, if the dog is more polite & less pushy about it.

this is a moment that could turn ugly, with the cat turning to flee & the dog becoming predatory; 
chase games can so easily & quickly segue into assaults or even lethal violence. 
GSDs, Sibes & JRTs all have a long-established reputation as potential cat-killers.  
that's not to say ALL of them are cat-hating, only that it's seen more often in those breeds than, say, 
a Flabrador, Poodle, Boxer or Newfie.

it's always a good idea to give any cat in a dog-resident household a *cat-tree* in every room, 
just in case - and NOT to leave the cat in shared space with the dog until U are *sure* Kitty & dog 
are safe together, unsupervised. Even then, i'd leave the cat a bolt-hole the dog cannot get into, 
like a chained-open door with a litter-box in one end of the room, & water-bowl at the other - 
food is optional, it depends upon how long U will be gone.

if Ur breed is among the more-predatory types [Bullmastiff, terrierrist, Nordic...] or loves to chase [herding, hound...], 
or is a mix including any of those breeds, separating Kitty & dog before leaving the house may be best. 
safe first always beats sorry after. :huh: *if U see signs of rough play or chasing when U return, 
Re-Think leaving them together. * magazines kicked onto the floor, small objects on shelves knocked over 
by a fleeing cat, kitty's coat is slobbered on the neck, trunk, back or tail... there's been some funny stuff.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> this is a moment that could turn ugly, with the cat turning to flee & the dog becoming predatory;
> chase games can so easily & quickly segue into assaults or even lethal violence


Reading this, I am very glad I got a smallish Labradoodle called away from the small terrier hearing assistance dog that tagged along with us today!

Small dog was chasing little one, turns changed, but then the little terrier started trying to flee after the playful Labradoodle didn't self regulate which she had been doing earlier, so I got proactive. I kind of felt I may have been over cautious, but it's better safe than sorry I guess.


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