# Superlorin Implant



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Sheepy had the superlorin implanted into her thigh yesterday so it can hopefully be removed at a later date.

How long does it usually take to kick in? My vet said quickly but mentor said 6 weeks. Wondered if it was different for Male and females and mine is the first cat my vet has implanted it in, usually she does it for dogs.

Tried Accupressure and melatonin but she is calling hard and fast. Last year I would regularly get at least 12 weeks between calls we have had 7 weeks between and we are ramping up to call again after 2 weeks. She is also one big hormonal grump at the moment and needs time to finishing developing as she is 18 months old and a slow growing breed, so I don’t really want her to have 2 litters by the time she is 2.


----------



## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

lillytheunicorn said:


> Sheepy had the superlorin implanted into her thigh yesterday so it can hopefully be removed at a later date.
> How long does it usually take to kick in? My vet said quickly but mentor said 6 weeks. Wondered if it was different for Male and females and mine is the first cat my vet has implanted the chip in, usually she does it for dogs. .


There will be a hormone surge at first, I've heard this lasts at least two weeks before the cat will start to settle down. So I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit longer before she settles then hopefully you will get a few months of peace and quiet, though the time you get varies from cat to cat


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> There will be a hormone surge at first, I've heard this lasts at least two weeks before the cat will start to settle down. So I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit longer before she settles then hopefully you will get a few months of peace and quiet, though the time you get varies from cat to cat


Thank you. Two weeks isn't bad, just wish my neuter girl would stop beating her up as she 'smells'. Usually that's how I now she is about to call as Skye growls whenever she walks by and beats her up.

Vet should hopefully be able to remove it if it hasn't worn off by the time she and I are ready to breed from her again as the timing is so variable.


----------



## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Why do you not want her to have two litters by the time she's two? The recommendation for the maximum is 3 litters in two years, cats weren't designed to only have one litter per year (although that would be ideal!). I can understand your concern with her being a prolific caller, but if her body condition and weight is good, and her kittens are now grown and gone to new homes, it wouldn't have been a bad thing to mate her again. Some girls can call hard between their first two litters and it peters out then.


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

M


Rufus15 said:


> Why do you not want her to have two litters by the time she's two? The recommendation for the maximum is 3 litters in two years, cats weren't designed to only have one litter per year (although that would be ideal!). I can understand your concern with her being a prolific caller, but if her body condition and weight is good, and her kittens are now grown and gone to new homes, it wouldn't have been a bad thing to mate her again. Some girls can call hard between their first two litters and it peters out then.


Relatively she is still rather immature looking compared to her peers (and her sister) who have been neutered or chipped. She still looks quite teenagerish at the moment. She was back to pre pregnancy weight but is dropping weight now due to calling and hormonal.

I was going to mate her again as it would have been late summer early autumn time by the time we mated her if she was going 3 months between calls but she has other plans.


----------



## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Of course she'll be immature looking, being entire closes growth plates quicker than in neuters, so they grow at completely different rates. At 18 months old I would expect her to look teenagerish because that's what she is. I think you're taking an enormous risk chipping her after one litter, you could potentially ruin her and if you've not kept that's the line gone. 

Anyway, she's done now and hopefully with no ill effects, but if you have another girl in the future I would strongly advise not chipping until they have had 3 or 4 litters, and look at a different hormone chip to superlorin. I have seen its effects in bad cases and it's not pretty


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

I hope she has no ill effects either, it was a risk I knew I was taking but felt for her it was best to give her a break. She can then enjoy life as a ‘neuter’ put on some weight and finish developing. 

I would also like to finish showing her but it proved to be too much with all the other cat hormones flying around and I had to withdraw my usual super friendly show loving cat. 

I would be upset to lose the line as it stems from my first NFO but the breeder of my queen has her Mum and sister, who are also entire albeit chipped but there chips are due to wear off soon and Mum had them after being implanted as a maiden queen.
One of my kittens is still entire, with my vet who will neuter him at a year old to allow his growth plates to fuse.


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Rufas, Supreloren is one of the safer chips out there, and there's no problem using it on queens who have had litters previously, whether 1 or more doesn't really matter. With slow maturing breeds, there is no reason why one would not wait until they were more developed before letting them have a few litters in a very short time period, and given the breed you're working with, I'm concerned that you feel it's Ok, and actually the moral thing to do, to litter them early and fast if they're calling... Sometimes, they just need that time to mature and grow themselves. with my Persians, I try and hold their first litter off until they're around 18 months to allow them time to mature. If I can't do this, I will mate them whenever's appropriate, then try and give them a good rest before their second litter, as they don't do much maturing when pregnant, given that all their extra resources are going into growing their kittens, not themselves. I'd advise you to get opinions from different mentors on this topic and come to your own conclusions, as with your breed, I would expect long rests between litters, to allow for maturation to occur.


----------



## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

It very much depends on the girl, each needs to be taken on an individual basis so I wouldn't mate early as a matter of course. Most Forest breed girls will call sparingly and can be, and are, put off for a year before remating. Some girls, however, will call like mad between first and second litters, and they lose more condition by calling than they would do when in kitten. By second and third litters their hormones have regulated and they don't have that mad calling.

I certainly would not mate a girl before 12 months, I'm not sure if that's the impression I've given but that's certainly not the case.

Superlorin may indeed be a safer chip out there, but no chipping is safe, and I've seen first hand the effects of the chip even after it's been out of the body for 12 months. I am not mad keen on any hormonal blocking unless absolutely necessary because of those experiences


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Chatting to our vet about it and her thoughts were Forest breeds would usually only have one litter a year in the wild as their day length would only be long enough for them to come into call for a shorter period than our cats experience.

My vet doesn’t endorse the use of superlorin even though it’s one of the safest methods of contraception out there; as she prefers the cats to be au naturel and managed with accupressure. She was the one who suggested melatonin to try and stabilise her calling. In my queens case she agreed that she was going to end up with a pyo if I left her and she needed time between litters.

If we had had more time to source the single use applicator melatonin implant we were going to try that. Though research shows that it often doesn’t work in fast and hard callers as effectively.


----------



## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

It is good that you've done your research, and your vet seems to be well on the ball too. Hopefully she doesn't have any bad effects from the implant, and goes on to call and kitten safely


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I hear a lot of noise about pyo, and can't help wondering whether we breeders panic too much about it, and whether it is more line specific than we know... I know of people, myself included, who have left cats to call for long periods (in my case I worked very hard to ensure they kept their condition, which sometimes meant round the clock feeding), but this has never resulted in a pyo. I have been lucky in that my most incessant callers have waited at least a week between calls, so I suppose I'd feel differently if they were cycling constantly. Still, pyo is rarely a reason to mate, although I know many people do it out of fear.


----------



## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I have to agree with you there, research suggests pyo seems to be in older cats more so, although of course young girls can get it. A friend's cat got pyo twice, both while she was feeding kittens, and was neutered after the second which was closed. She was just under 3yrs, had her first litter at 15 months. Very odd.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Apologies if I'm being dense - probably am - but what other ''chips' (hate that term as technically they are not chips) are there besides Suprelorin?


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Melatonin “chips”


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Oh, the sheep one. Never used it.


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rufus15 said:


> <snip>
> I would strongly advise not chipping until they have had 3 or 4 litters
> <snip>


Many breeders would consider 3-4 litters enough for a lifetime and would spay at that point.


----------



## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Many breeders would consider 3-4 litters enough for a lifetime and would spay at that point.


Agreed!!


----------



## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Depends on the girl really doesn't it? Some are great mothers who will happily do 6 or 7 litters, although I think that would really be the limit for even the best mothers. 

That's the great thing about breeding, being able to adapt to suit the cat you have in front of you, rather than rigidly follow what a couple loud voices put online


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Rufus15 said:


> Depends on the girl really doesn't it? Some are great mothers who will happily do 6 or 7 litters, although I think that would really be the limit for even the best mothers.
> 
> That's the great thing about breeding, being able to adapt to suit the cat you have in front of you, rather than rigidly follow what a couple loud voices put online


I hope my voice is not as loud as some but I can say from bitter experience that the longer a girl remains entire, the greater the chance of mammary tumours, even after they have been neutered. As usual, it depends what a breeder's priorities are.


----------



## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I hope my voice is not as loud as some but I can say from bitter experience that the longer a girl remains entire, the greater the chance of mammary tumours, even after they have been neutered. As usual, it depends what a breeder's priorities are.


And you'd be right, I take from that you've had a girl with mammary tumours? I'm sorry if so, that couldn't have been easy at all 

There are very few girls who would be suitable to breed past 4 or 5, I am fully aware of that. My comment was expressing that blanket rules can't be applied to all cats, that each one has to have her own set of rules, although it's good for a breeder to have a guideline or cut off point of when and when not to breed.

----

It's a shame that whatever I post in this forum is pounced on and picked apart, because of some silly vendetta. Disagreements are fine, a normal part of life, and we are all allowed to have our own opinions and ethics. I'm not really bothered if folk on here disagree with my breeding practices or not, much as no one is bothered if I don't agree with _their_ breeding practices.


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Thank you @Tigermoon for the warning on the hormone surge. We have an overly cuddly, and in equal measures grumpy girl


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Sheeps has had the Superlorin implant in for almost 6 weeks now. I have one super cuddly playful almost 2 year old ‘kitten’, no fat lazy cat. I could have done with it stimulating her appetite and slowing her down so she could fill out a bit. She is happy and too busy to eat, killing her feather stick and chasing around.

Will update at Christmas time when we plan to remove her implant (maybe before that if her future beau's superlorin wears off before, his was implanted 2 month before her but his lasted 8 months last time.)


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Sheep’s superlorin implant was removed yesterday, which was easily done according to the vet. We decided to get her superlorin removed as she randomly started producing milk, she then developed mastitis as just after this happened we collected a new kitten who Sheep allowed to suckle but the kitten caused quite considerable damage to a nipple which let an infection in. Once the infection cleared up, vet and I decided it was best to have the superlorin implant removed just in case that was the cause of the milk production and the reasons for having the implant inserted now no longer apply. She has filled out and recovered from having the kittens and the campylobacter. There is also no reason now for her not to have kittens either other than we may have Christmas kittens again (MIL will kill me as we are supposed to go to there this year). 

My mentor suspects it will be 6 weeks or so before she calls again, as she was still calling end of September last year as that’s when we mated her. 

On the positive side, she has had time to put the weight she lost back on and she has developed nicely. She looks like a 2 year old cat not a scrawny lanky teenager. She has also developed the a fantastic coat especially considering it is summer. 

Would I use superlorin again? On sheeps no, but definitely with the boys and would try it again with a queen if I had a voraciously call young queen. As my mentor uses it regularly without issue. Sheep was born after her mum had 2 back to back superlorin implants . 

Will update when she calls, the current plan is to mate her on her 2nd call dependent when it is, as all the active boys (not on superlorin) who’s type would complement hers she is related too. The problem with having a queen from an older successful sire. Her dad was 7 years old and Mum was 4 when she was born. Within 4 generations the same cat would pop up.


----------



## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Interesting. I've never heard of any queen lactating on superlorin.


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

@Tigermoon theoretically they shouldn't produce milk, as superlorin is essentially an anti-hormone implant. The product safety data sheet does warn vets that breast reduction or enlargement can occur.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Rufus15 said:


> It's a shame that whatever I post in this forum is pounced on and picked apart, because of some silly vendetta.


I have no idea what vendetta you're referring to but I've clicked 'like' on posts which agree with 3-4 litters being a reasonable number for a queen. If you haven't bred offspring worth keeping to further your lines in that number then you're unlikely to do so and there's little merit in flogging a dead horse.


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I’ve seen on fb implanted girls producing milk, seems a rarer side effect but does happen. 

Still not something I would use but interesting to read others experiences.


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

havoc said:


> I have no idea what vendetta you're referring to but I've clicked 'like' on posts which agree with 3-4 litters being a reasonable number for a queen. If you haven't bred offspring worth keeping to further your lines in that number then you're unlikely to do so and there's little merit in flogging a dead horse.


I had 4 really nice boys out of a litter of 5 boys, last time from Sheep. Hoping I might get a nice girl to keep from her this time, though I reckon another litter of boys with the girl being pet quality. As I really don't want to keep a boy as both my queens are related.


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

lillytheunicorn said:


> Hoping I might get a nice girl to keep from her this time


Don't say it out loud, that's how we get litters of all boys


----------



## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Don't say it out loud, that's how we get litters of all boys


That's why I had a litter of boys last time then.

My mentor had a year where every litter was boys except one which had one girl in it. Which I fell in love with and she let me ha e her as a show neuter. Thinking she would keep a girl from a later litter.


----------

