# Oh god, help please!



## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Biscuit, my frenchie buck....there's something wrong. 

He's not really moving much and won't touch his food. He's usually quite lively and always eats. 
He's healthy normally, thick coat, healthy weight, was fine last night and ate his food.


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## Hel_79 (Jun 14, 2011)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Biscuit, my frenchie buck....there's something wrong.
> 
> He's not really moving much and won't touch his food. He's usually quite lively and always eats.
> He's healthy normally, thick coat, healthy weight, was fine last night and ate his food.


Call the vet and get an appointment for today! It's not worth the risk to leave it, especially as you won't be able to get in tomorrow as it's Sunday. They ought to give you an emergency apt. today if you're worried.

My bun exhibited similar behaviour and it turned out he had spurs on his teeth which were causing him pain and needed filing down under GA. He was just lying around grinding is teeth and although he was hungry, he didn't want to eat. Thankfully it wasn't more serious, but the thing is it could have been.

Anyway - just get him to the vet! Hope he's OK.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

I am, but my rabbit vet doesn't open until 11.40am. 

He's not grinding his teeth at all. He has been absolutely FINE up until this morning when i went in to feed. I know he CAN move around as i just went again and he'd moved from the hutch down to the floor and was layed with his feet sticking out behind him. 

He looks fine visibly, but i just know something isn't right. 

God i feel sick. So worried. 

Another 25 mins till vets open!!!


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2013)

I've try to shed some light already so won't repeat. Hopefully the vet can help when they open in a few mins.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Hop it goes well at the get I would ask for some critical care + syringes and biolapis to have at home incase of emergencies. I would also try and get a snuggle safe if you haven't already got one


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Sounds like a bout of bloat to me, it's awful, isn't it?

I'd give him a good tummy massage, incase there's any blockages and try and tempt him to eat anything at all. Mix some pellets with warm water and syringe feed him to try and get his appetite going again.

As you'll be going to the vets with him, this can be done in the meantime, before being seen to. If it's bloat/ stasis, the vet will probably give some gut stimulants, which should sort him out.

Good luck! It's so scary, I know, but try not to panic too much. Let us know how he gets on x


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2013)

JordanRose said:


> Sounds like a bout of bloat to me, it's awful, isn't it?


Yup that's my thoughts or a blockage but as he has done a couple of poops recently I'm swaying more to bloat now.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

i thought bloat too. 

He has had 1 pellet, which looked normal, not runny or anything. 
He won't touch a thing, which usually he loves his food. 

His tummy feels soft, almost like a 'jelly belly', like wobbly.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Hope you have managed to get him to the vets. Definitely needs urgent appointment as they can go downhill so rapidly.

Possible gas/bloat needs urgent treatment. could also be underlying problem of spurs on teeth. Could be a blockage.

I would expect vet to give bun a full examination, and hopefully diagnosis. A doughy stomache could be both teeth and/or bloat.

Vet should give painkillers -and make sure you come away with some Metacam to continue for at least a few days, whatever the reason.

Vet is likely to give sub cu fluids. Even if the bunny is drinking and is well hydrated, he might have a dehydrated blockage in his bowel. If you flood the system with fluid, that can allow it to move along.9as long as bun has no kidney issues)

Vet may give bun gut stimulants.

Vet should give you critical care or similar.

Vet may ask to do X rays for more accurate diagnosis.

Good luck.

Keep tempting with yummy noms but avoid gassy greens.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Hi, thanks for the help. 

Been to the vet, he can feel some sort of small blockage, like dry rough matter (hay?) in his tummy, he said it's the bunny equivalent to where our appendix is? 

He had some metacam and gut stim, and he said if he doesn't improve in a few hours he wants him taken to the emergency vets for intravenous drip. 

I've just been asda and got some fresh parsely, mint and basil, and some pineapple too, the vet said the pineapple juice might help move the blockage. 

If after all this he still isn't better, he said it will be a case of opening him up to do it. 

So fingers crossed he will bloody eat and be ok! He has done a few pellets, slightly soft, but at least he is pooing.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

glad hes pooing this is a really good sign. 

The pinapple is great but it can cause tummy upsets so not so much. 

Did your vets give him any fluids under the skin?

Did you get any needless syringes? try to get plenty of water and food in him asap


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

yep got loads of syringes. 

Bernie mentioned about water instead of pineapple too. 

Just made him some porridge with apple sauce...he was interested but never touched it. I'll give him another half hour to do it on his own, and then i'll have to start syringing him.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2013)

Did the vet give sub-cut fluids?
As I said in my fb message I would hold off on the pineapple tbh as the sugar can cause the gut bacteria to unbalance which can make things worse.

I used to advise pineapple juice a while ago but after more research into this I have changed my mind and my reasons are as followed:



1- If giving it as an attempt to break down fur in the GI tract then it has to be 100% FRESH pineapple. The enzyme which is alleged to help (bromelain) is destroyed during any processing (as would occur in making the type of pineapple juice bought in cartons). 


2-Pineapple contains a lot of sugar. Giving sugary substances to a Rabbit if gut stasis can make things much worse. The sugar feeds the 'bad' gut bacteria potentially causing a life threatening dysbiosis 


The best thing to administer to a Rabbit in gut stasis is water. Oral administration in less severe cases, SQ or IV in more serious cases.


The enzyme Bromelain can be bought from most Health Food Stores. If wanting to give bromelain then far better to do so without all the added sugars found in Pineapple

Another VERY important thing is that no Rabbit should be syringe feed anything but water until it has been confirmed by a Vet that a GI tract obstruction is not present. Syringe feeding an obstructed Rabbit can be extremely dangerous.

So for me it is just water for now until the blockage starts to move. If you massage his tummy every 30-45 mins for a few mins it will help to move the mass along too.


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## Hannahmourneevans (Dec 16, 2012)

Hi hun, glad you got to the vet and lots of love to you


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

I did buy a fresh pineapple too lol, good thing i like pineapple! 

So, i will stick to syringing water and not food, unless he eats himself then that is ok? 

The vet just gave metacam and gut stim, to try and get him moving, but said he will need iv fluids if he doesn't improve in a few hours.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2013)

DollyGirl08 said:


> I did buy a fresh pineapple too lol, good thing i like pineapple!
> 
> So, i will stick to syringing water and not food, unless he eats himself then that is ok?
> 
> The vet just gave metacam and gut stim, to try and get him moving, but said he will need iv fluids if he doesn't improve in a few hours.


If he eats by himself that is fine as that will mean the mass is moving  It is very naughty that your vet didn't give sub-cut fluids with a mass that is THE most important thing because they won't move anywhere unless hydrated :incazzato:

Give him a syringe full of water every hour to see if that helps and if he has to go back I would insist on sub-cut fluids before they take him in for IV.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

thanks Bernie. 

So 10ml syringe of water every half hour/hour....say this works....how would i know? Would he start pooing? Eating? 

Sub cut, i'm guessing means needle under the skin and syringe fluid in that way? 
Obviously IV would be in the vein in the ear/arm? 

so nervous and worried i feel sick to my stomach.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2013)

DollyGirl08 said:


> thanks Bernie.
> 
> So 10ml syringe of water every half hour/hour....say this works....how would i know? Would he start pooing? Eating?
> 
> ...


Yep every hour  You will know it is working by his body language, he won't look in so much pain and he will start to move around more and start to show interest in some food and you will most likely see a very, very large pile of poo.

Yes sub cut is under the skin and IV is into the vein, IV will get there quicker but sub cut is far, far less stressful. Shame I'm not closer to you as I could pop in and give him one for you, I hope he picks up soon xx


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

i know...times like this i could do with you living nearer lol. 

All the dogs are locked away, so it's just him and Muffin in the kitchen, nice and quiet for them.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

I think most gets really don't get how important fluids are to rabbits

When I took Lottie in with her UTI I practically had to beg them to give her fluids she hadnt eaten over night by herself. The vet was like she's not dehydrated and pulled her very loose skin as she was underweight at the time he gave her a measily 10ml


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Glad you got him to the vets.

Sad the vet didn't do the obvious and give sub cu fluids - so easy - many vets will train people who have several, or special needs, rabbbits how to do sub cu at home.

Syringing fluid - water or naturally flavoured water (pure juice, see below)- will help.

you can add an extra bowl f water rwith a little apple juice or pure cranberry juice in. That tempts some buns to drink more. But do still offer water.

Any food you offer needs to be "wet" - grass not so easy at mo.

Pooing, even a little, suggests some movement, which is hopeful.

Keep him warm.

Offer a little baby food on a plate - eg Ella's Kitchen Apples apples Apples - you can add a few more drops of water. 

Try and stay calm - he will pick up on your stress - hard, I know.

We had to go down that route, but our bun was very poorly. She had sub cu fluids, but did not rally, so had to be admitted. 

They Xrayed to see what was really going on, and gave her IV fluids, and she had to stay in for 24hrs - expensive, but she DID come home, and is now absolutely fine. 

Have they given you painkillers to use at home?

Don't hesistate to take her back if things don't begin to improve - what for poo, moving around (normal or otherwise) and other behaviours.

Take care.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

That's why i wanted to go to the rabbit savvy vet as i'd hoped he'd know and be able to do more. 
But they are shut because of the poxy snow! 

I've been syringing water in his mouth, 10ml at a time, every 30-40 mins. He's still not really changed much though. Muffin is stuffing her face with all the goodies, but Biscuit isn't interested. 

If he hasn't changed at all by 6, looks like i'll be off to the emergency vets, which is £80 to see the vet, then any treatments and cost if he has to stay in...don't know where this money is coming from, i'm broke now! 
But needs must, if he needs a vet he will get a vet! 

There is a bowl of water in there, he hasn't touched it.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Syringing is good - water not too cold.

Any one on here trained to do sub cu live near you?? It could help rehydrate any dried up stuff in there, and help it move along. Once he starts to poo, things are moving along, but it could take a few days to get back to normal, and he will stilll need painkillers.

obviously, it might not just be stasis, but that is the most likely reason.

Gentle tummy massage can help.

You could try a phone call to the emergency vet and see what they suggest next. I wouldn't leave it too long. They may try sub cu, or they may admit for IV - and yes, the bills aespecially just after christmas, are crippling.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

i don't think any of you bunny people live near me at all? 

I've been using room temperature water, he is drinking it when i syringe it in his mouth. 

But i just picked grass and fern and stuff, he isn't interested at all. 

He hasn't changed since this morning really, no worse, but no better either, so he will defo need the vet again tonight. 

Just have to wait for Mike to get back from walking the dogs, then will have to give them a call. 

I don't mind paying for treatment at all, of course i don't....it's the fact they think it's ok to charge £80 just to walk through the door....even if the vet then said the animal is fine, you'd still have to pay £80!


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

If it makes you feel any better, ours charge even more.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

:O it's ridiculous isn't it....i bet many pets get left all weekend with severe problems due to these charges!



Ok, need some advice...

Do i;

Take him for sub cu, they will charge £80 and then cost of the fluids. 

If that doesn't work, have to go back for iv, which will be another £80 then cost of fluid. 

Go in for IV and skip the sub cu? 

Obviously i want to do the best thing for him, not stress him out more than necessary, make him better, but not dent my non-existent funds too badly? 

What do you think would be the best?


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

If you trust the vet, I would follow vet's advice.

I think it more likely they will admit and iV - especially because of weather.

But if they do decide to sub cu, and there is still no improvement today, they will say come back again tonight - but ours would not charge a second "call out" for the same thing.

Phone and talk to them if you can.

I do feel for you. wish I could do more.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

See, i've dealt with them many times....i found a cat ran over once, and they refused to help it unless i payed, even though i'd only found it....they are more for money i feel. So not sure i could trust them to advise me on his best interests rather than their own pocket. 

What about i ask for sub cu, then keep on syringing during the night (i won't sleep anyway knowing he's poorly), and then see if that helps?

Going to take him in a bit anyway. 

Just wish i knew what was the best route to take. 

Wish money wasn't so much an issue too


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

See what vet says after examination - sometimes they can feel the "blockage" is moving along. if stomache feels the same, then syringing is not doing the job (but will have kept bun hydrated)

Vet should give bun a complete going over - listen to chest/heart/tum, check teeth, temperature, feel him over - should have done that once today anyway.

You need a proper diagnosis.

If you don't trust this vet, is there another you can talk to?

You can ask about sub cu - it needs to be a generous amount too - but they can monitor/keep warm/up the painkillers if he is admitted.

When you go, take favourite foods with you in case.

Pellet food can be soaked in cooled boiled water. Got any basil or parsley about? or carrot leaves (not the carrots - too sugary) to tempt.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Well he's been admitted for IV fluids and fibreplast. The vet couldn't hear any gut noise at all and he listened for a while. He said his heart/breathing rate are actually good. He said sub cu might be more painful and not absorb if he gets stressed and would need a large amount. So he's going to pop him on an IV and give him fibreplast to help his gut. 
I have to phone in a few hours if i haven't heard from them.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Sounds the right thing to do if no gut sounds at all.

Good heart/breathing rate OK.

Hopefully the fluid will begin to make a real difference soon.

Keep in touch.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

thanks. 

He said other than the obvious, he's in good health. 
He said he can't say if the fluids will work or how long they may take, he said it differs from rabbit to rabbit. 
He's a new vet there, never seen him before, but he seemed to know his stuff.

He said opening him up would be a very last resort as buns don't do well with gut surgery, but hopefully the IV will have an effect. 

He said it might take 2 hours, or he might need to stay overnight, no way of knowing. 
So i have to phone in a few hours if they haven't phoned me, to see how he is and if he'll be home tonight or not. 
I really hope so. 

It's cost £100 to see the vet, then the IV is £100, and if he stays overnight that will be another £150 
But i'm past caring now....i'll flash the vet my boobs if i have to! lol. Just want my bunny better and home again.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Vet is saying the right things, which is good.

I hope bun shows a quick improvement. 

And yes, surgery would be a last resort, and hopefully won't be necessary. But they might suggest an Xray, if no improvement.

stasis/partial bockage most likely, but other possibilities too.

Like I said before, our bun was really poorly, quite out of the blue, but she is fine now. And yes, it cost us 100s too. Even with painkillers and sub cu fluid at home on standby.

Hope it is the same for you.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

thanks alot for the help and advice. 

My buns haven't had much luck in the last few weeks. 

First Bramble had to be pts with kidney failure and an abcess
Then Muffin was spayed and the vet found a lump on her womb, most likely the onset of uterine cancer...lucky i got her spayed when i did! 
Now Biscuit with this 
Hope Briar doesn't get poorly aswell now!


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## Hel_79 (Jun 14, 2011)

What an awful day you've had! Just sending some good wishes and empathising with the stress of it all - I've been there. He's in the best place right now, so fingers crossed it does the trick.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

thank you. 

I'm trying to resist the urge to phone the vet now, as it's only been 1.5 hours, and they said they'd phone if anything changes/he's ok to come home. 

I'll wait until half 7-8 and then phone to see how he is. 

I can't stop shivering and shaking! Bloody stress. :sad:


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

Oh gosh how scary!!! Hope your boy is feeling better soon and the vets can sort him out. Its so worrying when they are ill. Not long now till u can call and see how hes doing.

Have got my fingers crossed for him.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

thanks. 
He was fine last night, and today was a different rabbit! 

Really hope these fluids are pushing through and making him better. He's a placid, friendly boy so hopefully it's not stressing him out too much.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Feel awful with you. Do hope the fluids are doing the job.

The more pets you have, the more crises you get, sadly, and they all seem to come together. And when you lose one, you expect them all to do the the same.

We've got 17 buns here, and not so long ago, 3 of the brothers got tooth abscesses. We knew that one had tooth root problems, but we hadn't expected that. 2 are now under control, the other was really bad, and he has daily antibiotic injections. The abscess still seems to be shrinking, and he is back to his old self.

Add in a bunny with breathing/heart issues, (who sadly had to be put to sleep at the end of the year), a bun with scoliosis, that sadly had to be put to sleep after developing pneumonia, another that had regular and sudden pain episodes needing instant fluids and sometimes admittance, an unexpected stasis - oh, and despite all the hay we pile in, several of ours are dental buns - well, our bank balance is not where it should be.

They are very expensive pets - but adorable.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

oh gosh! 

Yes that;s the trouble, the more you have, the more likely it is something will crop up. 
I've also got a new kitten, which needs spaying. 
Luckily all the dogs are ok, touch wood! 

Going to call the vets in a bit, it's been 2.5 hours now, so maybe the fluids are doing something!


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Little update. 

Phoned the vets. 
He's had 3, i think she said pouches, of fluids intravenously, and has been taking syringed food. They said he's brightened up, nosing around. But still has no gut noises, or taking food by himself. 
So i'm phoning back in a few hours again, to see if there is any improvement, and whether he will stay overnight or come home.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Good news he has perked up.

I am guessing he will stay in tonight, if no gut noises yet. They will want to see him pooing I would think, before he comes home. The fluid should be hydrating any impacted food in his guts, if that its the problem.

Hope for good news later. 

Chin up.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

thanks. 
well he seems to have been given alot of fluid now, but still hasn't got the gut moving 
I think if he still has no gut noises then i'd rather he did stay there with fluids and the fiberplast being given to him, whereas all i can do is syringe water every hour.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2013)

Good news he has perked up, hopefully his guts will kick in soon too


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Hopefully Bernie! 

The vet said (was a diff vet to when i dropped him off) that he is happily taking the fiberplast from a syringe, but he isn't interested in feeding for himself yet. She said she'd be happier seeing him want to eat for himself. 

I'd be happier knowing he's had a massive, steaming sh!te! lol.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2013)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Hopefully Bernie!
> 
> The vet said (was a diff vet to when i dropped him off) that he is happily taking the fiberplast from a syringe, but he isn't interested in feeding for himself yet. She said she'd be happier seeing him want to eat for himself.
> 
> I'd be happier knowing he's had a massive, steaming sh!te! lol.


That fibre plex is nommy stuff apparently, it's supposed to taste of carrot but I've never tasted carrots that taste quite like this stuff :lol:


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Where can i get it? 
Defo sounds like something i should keep in the cupboard 'in case'.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2013)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Where can i get it?
> Defo sounds like something i should keep in the cupboard 'in case'.


Protexin Fibreplex for Rabbits and Small Rodents


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

There's me calling it fiberplast! lol. 

Just been to see him, because the vet isn't happy for him to come home. 
He looked very sorry for himself, very quiet. 
They said he keeps perking up, then going quiet and floppy again, and he has produced a couple of little pellets, which is a good sign. 
He's due another round of fluids in 15 mins, then an injection at 12am. 
I have to phone in the morning at about 8am, to see how he's doing. 

I took him some fresh herbs, curly kale, barley rings, and his dry mix, to try and tempt him to eat. 

So worried.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Hi,

How are things this morning?


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Summersky said:


> Hi,
> 
> How are things this morning?


Ah thanks for asking.

I phoned at 8am and they said he's eaten a few of the herbs i took him last night, and he has some gut noise!!! He's having more fluids now, i have to phone back at 12pm to see if he's further improved enough to come home.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2013)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Ah thanks for asking.
> 
> I phoned at 8am and they said he's eaten a few of the herbs i took him last night, and he has some gut noise!!! He's having more fluids now, i have to phone back at 12pm to see if he's further improved enough to come home.


Just popped in to see if you had updated and I'm very pleased to hear this


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Thanks Bernie  I was really, really worried last night. I popped to see him and take him some goodies to tempt him, and he looked really poorly.

It will be my turn to be poorly later when i pay the bill


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Gut sounds! Yeah!! 

it sounds like things are moving in the right direction. 

When he does come home, don't expect him to be back to normal. It will take a few days and lots of TLC.

The vet should send you home with Dog metacam (painkiller) (OK for buns at the right dose) to use for a few days, as he will be in discomfort, and Fibreplex. His gut will be vulnerable and out of balance, and he probably has a lot toshift..

Then it's a case of tempting him with non gassy yummies, and lots of fluid. Important to get/keep the gut moving normally, to avoid a repeat.

We are very strange here - from our bun with a similar problem, we collected and kept some of the poo in a pill pot over the following week, and day by day it gradually got bigger until it was back to normal size. 

The vet is used to us, and was interested too. We're past being embarrassed about all things poo related!

Then we forgot about the pill pot, and left it somewhere. When we opened it, all the later, bigger poo had gone mouldy.  All the earlier, tiny poo were as they were. :001_unsure: Which I think shows how dehydrated the contens of her guts were, even when things got moving again, and even though she herself was well hydrated. 


Is yours an outside or inside bun?

And out of interest, what do you usually feed him? You may need to make some adjustments.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Summersky said:


> Gut sounds! Yeah!!
> 
> it sounds like things are moving in the right direction.
> 
> ...


He is normally a 'shed' bun, but i'm going to keep him and Muffin (his doe) in for a while, as she has just been spayed a few days ago as well!

He is normally fed Chudleys Royale, he gets that of an evening, morning is normally bit of carrot or greens, and redi grass for the day.
BUT i've changed it about 2 weeks ago, to mostly hay, not much carrot or cabbage, not as much chudleys, and some herbs/kale instead...after reading on here about diet. 
Do you think the new diet of more hay etc could have caused this?


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2013)

Summersky said:


> And out of interest, what do you usually feed him? You may need to make some adjustments.


I was actually going to speak to Tanya about this, they are on rabbit royal and I have a funny feeling that the added molasses and bits and pieces has a relevance here.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> I was actually going to speak to Tanya about this, they are on rabbit royal and I have a funny feeling that the added molasses and bits and pieces has a relevance here.


Well they've been on this forever. But i am changing to that allen page food ice this has finished...nearly at the end of the bag now.

I don't think i'll be giving him much at all now, will keep with hay and herbs till the new food comes.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2013)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Do you think the new diet of more hay etc could have caused this?


Nope, it will be something else hun.

I would seriously consider getting your lot onto a pellet diet like A&P Natural (tis the best for the price, around £10 for 20kg)
Ahh we cross posted, looks like we are on the same page then


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Yep, no way do i want this happening again, and if i'd known more about bunny nutrition before i could have acted alot sooner. My own fault, I should know better than most people the importance of researching etc. Feel terrible


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

A & P or Science Selective best bet, going forward, but you really should change over gradually, rather finish the old then start with the new - bit tricky if the current mix contributed to the problem. So when you introduce the new pellets, do it gradually, increasing the quantity - and keeping an eye on output.

The hay, like Bernie says, won't have caused the problem, and herbs are good.

Ours love Readigrass, and we do feed it sporadically, when we are trying to tempt a bun to eat. But I believe it is calcium rich, so it's best not to feed it long term, on a daily basis.

Most important thing is too avoid anything gassy. - and "in" is good at this time of year, with the weather as cold as it is. You may well have to keep them in for quite a while, until the milder weather comes - and be warned, buns are clever - they have the knack of infiltrating, and before you know it, you have permanaent house buns!!

PS you are doing your best, don't blame yourself for this - keeping buns is a constant learning curve, nobody knows it all, we all make mistakes - and he could have gone into stasis on the best of diets.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Thanks. 
Honestly he looked awful last night, never seen him like that before. 

I'm phoning back at 3pm, he would have had another jab of gut stim at 2pm, and the vet is happy for me to have him home now. 
I'll bring some fibrewatsit back too. He's still not eaten/pooped but the vet said his gut is gurgling and sounds really good.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Hopefully, he is safely home now, and things will soon start moving on through.

We found ourselves in the crazy state of getting excited - and yes, counting! - poo. Being a bunny owner does strange things to you. :001_rolleyes: 

It will be nice to have him home. Episodes like that are terrifying. Hope the bill was bearable.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

hi, yes we have just got home with him. 

The vet had him hopping around the surgery, to try and get things moving, rather than leave him cooped up in the cage. But he said he had to put him back after an hour as he started getting mischievous! Good sign though i guess lol, especially as last night he looked VERY ill. Oh, and he had left a few little poos on the floor  not many, but still, some! He also said his gut sounds very healthy now, whereas last night it was making no sounds whatsoever. So hopefully things are moving through. Still not eaten though.

He's left the catheter in his ear in case he needs any more IV fluids, and has sent home some Recovery stuff, and some Fiberplex. 

I've popped him in a large litter tray next to the cage with Muffin in, so he can see/smell her, but i can keep an eye on his pooing/eating and not get mixed up with her poos etc. I've layed out a selection for him....even a honey coated seedy stick treat thing! Normally he loves them, but as yet, he's not interested. 
So i've stopped gawping at him, and left him in the dark and quiet to settle down and hopefully have a munch. 

Oh, and the bill wasn't too bad....£200!


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Ours was nearer 500, so that's good - with Xrays that is - and some discount, although it didn't feel like it.

Poo is good - and yes, they often won't eat when watched. We leave the food around like you, and have known to catch a bunny munching through the hinge of an open door!! And still some of them know. 

Yep - bunny world is a crazy world.

Glad he made it.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

£500!! 

He didn't need xraying so that may be why it's not too bad. 
It was £95 for the initial appointment, so the other £100 is obviously the treatment and overnight boarding. 

I'd pay it again if it meant he'd be ok. 

I'm just leaving him in peace for a while as hopefully that will calm him down and seeing Muffin eating 'next door' to him will entice him to eat him, i hope! 

Might see if he'll eat a dry weetabix?!


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

ok he's got;

hay
chudleys food
rice krispies
weetabix
shreddies
barley rings
honey coated treat stick
parsely
kale

and the little sod hasn't touched a thing! I've counted how much of each is there lol, so i can sneak in and count to see if he's taken even 1 little shreddie.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Looks like you'll be syringing then for a while then. A little of that can get them going. You might need to syringe fluid too.

let's face it, if we were all bunged up, we wouldn't have much appetite either - but buns have to keep their guts going. 

so keep tempting (any blades of grass anywhere?) , offer a little new hay every now and then.

If you've got any plain porridge oats try soaking them in some pre boiled water and offer on a plate.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Yep i've not long given some Recovery stuff (like liquid food) and some water. 
I popped for a bath and got Mike to keep an eye on him, and when i can down the food had been 'disturbed', but i can't tell if he's eaten anything....it doesn't look like he has, but he must have nosed about a bit in it. 
Yep i have some Oats so can try that. 
Will send mike out the back to un-bury some grass haha. 

I've only put a tiny amount of the Chudleys in there, i'm too scared to feed too much now


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

He's just had a big wee and did a small handful of poos!! sticky little poos, but poos!


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

That's great!!! 

The things we get excited about.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

lol i know, i even took a pic! 

He's done a few more since too! Also fighting me when i syringe water in, so he's defo feeling better! 

My kitchen looks a mess, hay scattered everywhere, goodies strewn around in the hope he'll pick some food on his hops around lol. 

He had a nosey at a food pile just, and sniffed some fresh mint, but then hopped off....but he sniffed. 

He does seem much brighter.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Sniffing and showing interest is good. Hopefully, he will be eating independently before you know it.

And who cares abou the mess?


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Glad things have worked out for you. I went through something similar a few weeks ago with one of my frenchies, we racked up a great vet bill, he was in for three days  he's fine now 
They like to make us jump through hoops!


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Biscuit's a frenchie too....all mine are. 
Is it something that can happen more with certain breeds, or can it literally be any rabbit, any time?

All my buns have always been healthy, i've had 6 altogether, 2 before, then these 4 before Bramble passed away, and they have always been so healthy. So worried it will happen again.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Forewarned is forearmed - or something like that. It could recur - or it may never happen again.

Just avoid foods that can cause gas, and keep to a diet that works. Never give foods that are over sugary, such as carrots. Avoid gassy greens and trigger foods.

Give lots of oppotunities to exercise (keep guts moving).

you'll get to read the warning signs, and will know what to do - keep an eye on poo - size/quantity/colour - and changing behaviour/appetite - and if you think he might be brewing, give painkillers, massage tummy gently, give a warm Snugglesafe, up the fluid and offer juicy herbs and grass. 

Talk to others with similar buns - bernie knows loads, I think heidi/hazyreality has a bun prone to bloat.

And try not to stress.

Were his teeth checked, by the way?


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Thanks.
Yes i have Bernie on my facebook and she's forever being hounded by me lol, sorry Bernie :tongue_smilie:

I used to give a carrot a day each, cabbage etc. But recently, 2-3 weeks ago, changed and started giving daily hay, less Chudleys, only a small piece of carrot once or twice a week, and giving curly kale instead of cabbage, and some fresh herbs. 

Then this happens lol! :crazy:

Yes, the vet checked his teeth a few times to be thorough. He said he is altogether in good health, and dentally he looks good, but that he thinks there is a tiny spur on 1 tooth, but he said it's hardly enough to feel anything, the size of a dot . and as he's ben absolutely fine up until now, never shown any signs of grinding or going off his food, i'm not sure that's what caused it? Hopefully with a better diet of hay and better pellet food this teeny spur will grind away.


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## jaxb05 (Apr 12, 2009)

Missed this whole thread but delighted the little guy is perking up


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Thank you. 

He's being a little sod now and won't let me syringe water into his mouth, but i haven't seen him drink either, and he's still not taking food. He is really lively though, and has produced quite a few pellets.
So i will have to keep trying with water and his Recovery liquid foody stuff. And tempting him with goodies.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Gah....Biscuit just pulled his catheter out....blood everywhere! He's fine though, it clotted over. 
He's leaving loads of sticky little poos everywhere too...i just cleaned them up and then he did more! Good sign though  
Had to just force some more Recovery into his mouth. He is really fighting against the syringe now, and i 'think' he just nibbled something out of his bowl. 

I've seperated him and Muffin for the night now, she's in the crate and he's loose in the kitchen, so i can monitor his pooing/eating. 
Also got a bowl of plain water, and a bowl of water with a teeny bit of juice in, to try and get him drinking himself.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Pooing is good ..... exercise is good ...... fighting syringe is a good sign too .....and pulling out catheter scary .... it was bound to be annoying him.

Hope fully he is still doing well.

he sounds like he is over the worst hopefully


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Thanks, he's basically back to himself, personality wise. I found a few poops this morning. Also he's obviously nibbled his honey treat stick in the night, only a little, but still. Also been taking raisins and eating them. Still not interested in anything else. 
Are raisins ok? Is there an amount i should give and not go over? I know they are quite sweet and sugary so not the best thing.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

We don't feed raisins, but we do give ours one craisin - dried cranberries - as a treat after medicine.

They are sugary, so i would feed very sparingly, as you want to nurture his gut and it will out of balance right now.


Glad he is eating and behaving like himself - normal behaviour is a great sign.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Thanks. In the last half hour, he's started eating. He had some of his homey treat stick, some hay, and some dry food, and drank from his water bowl.


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