# Tardak - Chemical Castration



## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Saw this mentioned this morning and had a look at it.
Any thoughts or opinions?
Thanks



Vicki


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

I think the implant is better at giving you an idea of how castration would change your dog.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Tollisty said:


> I think the implant is better at giving you an idea of how castration would change your dog.


Explain more if you would please Hazel?:001_smile: I don't know about the impant, well I didnt know about Tardak until this morning either.
I don't think either of my boys would benefit from castration ATM just interested really. :smile:


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Tardak is often given with the implant so that any surges in hormones are controlled.
The two combined seem to give good results in the small number of dogs that I have worked with on this.
From a long term point of view I can't really give you too much info as all the dogs I have been involved with on this have been undergoing treatment for under a year.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

tripod said:


> Tardak is often given with the implant so that any surges in hormones are controlled.
> The two combined seem to give good results in the small number of dogs that I have worked with on this.
> From a long term point of view I can't really give you too much info as all the dogs I have been involved with on this have been undergoing treatment for under a year.


Thanks tripod
And did these people do it for behaviourial reasons, to see what effect castration would have before going for the actual snip?


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

There is a member on here I believe who may have used it. I will bring this post to her attention and if she has no reservations about discussing it, I'm sure she'll join in


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Tanya1989 said:


> There is a member on here I believe who may have used it. I will bring this post to her attention and if she has no reservations about discussing it, I'm sure she'll join in


Thanks Tanya. 
First hand information on the WWW is low. Mainly other forums.
Have rung vets for their opinion also.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Have used it on my dog, it lasted more then 6 months and he's not a small dog (10kg) he did well on it


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

archielee said:


> Have used it on my dog, it lasted more then 6 months and he's not a small dog (10kg) he did well on it


Was that just the Tardak? Blimey, 6 months. I was reading 4-6 weeks 

What changes did you notice?


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

babycham2002 said:


> Thanks tripod
> And did these people do it for behaviourial reasons, to see what effect castration would have before going for the actual snip?


Yep in relation to behaviour issues. Neutering was contra-indicated due to confidence issues (or lackthereof) and implantation with initial Tardak were used.
In one case we went the whole hog and got the snip as we were happy with the results. This dog is doing well.

Another's reactivity had just started to escalate and his arousal at seeing/meeting other dogs was exceptional. Still undergoing treatment and modification and it appears to have def helped move us along.

Would be really interested in hearing from anyone using it or who has done - reasons for doing it, modification if any, results, long term health implications and so on.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Was that just the Tardak? Blimey, 6 months. I was reading 4-6 weeks
> 
> What changes did you notice?


I will ask my vet the name tomorrow.. but i think it was Tardak

It lasted more then 6 months... think it was like 8 months 

It worked in 3 weeks and he was like a castrated boy.. not interested in any in season bitch (he would smell and walk away )

He is back to his old self now lol.. i would use it again if i needed too


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

That's really helpful
Thank you both of you.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> That's really helpful
> Thank you both of you.


Your welcome


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

This is from a friend who has a Bullmastiff: "I just wanted to post a word of caution about using Tardak. When my bullmastiff boy was about a year old I was having the same dilemma as you. 

I just couldn't decide what to do for the best and in the end I decided to use Tardak - the vet and a behaviourist I discussed the problem with assured me that it was the same as surgical castration but would wear off if I didn't like the effects. 

Before the injection, my dog was happy and friendly. Enjoyed life, especially playing with other dogs - he adored them. He and I attended a local training class and we both loved it. 

Once he'd been injected with Tardak, he became a different dog. The most immediate and obvious effect was that he was depressed. All he wanted to do was lie around, he had no enthusiasm for anything and didn't greet his friends - human or canine - when he met them. 

A couple of weeks after the injection, he attacked my friend's cairn terrier and bit him badly. Thank god, my dog is very well trained and stopped his attack as soon as I asked him to - otherwise the cairn would not have survived. 

The tardak caused it. I did my own research into why it had it's effect and also discussed it with Robin Walker who is a vet specialising in behaviour problems. He is retired now but is still a member of the APBC. He told me that in some dogs tardak stops them feeling any pleasure in life at all. This leads to extreme frustration and depending on the dog, what may come out of that could be aggression. 

The depression and aggression in my dog did not wear off when the tardak did and I ended up with a dog who could no longer go to training classes - he couldn't stand to be in rooms with other dogs, who had to be muzzled when out and who would bark and lunge at dogs running loose or at young entire males who were just close to him. 

A friend of mine used tardak and it had a similar effect on her dog - only her dog attacked her. He wasn't a bullmastiff but was a large guarding breed. He had to be pts after that as the attack was so extreme. "


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Thank you luvmydogs for sharing that persons experience. Poor dogs in that particular case


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

We've used Tardak on a number of occasions with different dogs. One of our boys used to get so hyper and uncontrollable when the girls came into season, that he was a complete nightmare (even though they were well separated). We decided to get him neutered, but our vet suggested using Tardak to lower his hormone levels and emotional volatility first. It worked a treat and we had him neutered a few months later.
Another older dog (very old - 18) was similarly uncontrollable - you'd think someone had slipped him some viagra, so we did exactly the same thing - used the Tardak to bring down his hormones and had him neutered a few months later.
In neither case were there any ill effects or behavioural side effects. Under the Tardak, both dogs simply returned to their normal (no bitch in season) selves.

We were so impressed with this that we have occasionally used it in a similar way with some of the rescue foster dogs prior to neutering. We had noticed that some dogs - especially those who were uncontrollably hyper when there was a bitch in season, carried on as if nothing had happened after neutering and still obsessively tried to mount everything in sight. When we have given such dogs Tardak for a month or so before neutering, we have not seen this at all.

Mick


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

I know a few dogs that have had the implant to see how neutering would change them. Most of the deciding to castrate as there behaviour improved.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> This is from a friend who has a Bullmastiff: "I just wanted to post a word of caution about using Tardak. When my bullmastiff boy was about a year old I was having the same dilemma as you.
> 
> I just couldn't decide what to do for the best and in the end I decided to use Tardak - the vet and a behaviourist I discussed the problem with assured me that it was the same as surgical castration but would wear off if I didn't like the effects.
> 
> ...


Poor dog.. my dog did not have any of the depression or aggression


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## helenthemum (Jan 25, 2009)

Sorry to drag up an old post.

My puppy is almost 9 months old. He has always been hyper and has shown some level of guarding issues which we have been managing with the help of a behavourists and reactive dog training classes.

He has started to get worse over the last couple of weeks, he has also just started cocking his leg and scenting, so we are wondering if part of the problem is hormonal.

I am going to have him castrated in a few months when he is fully grown, but was wondering about using Tardak to see if it would help to calm him down for a couple of weeks and maybe give us some idea of what he will be like after he has been done.

I had to take him out of his training class this evening as his mind was really not on task, he was acting like he was frustrated. I am taking him the vets anyway for a general check-up to see if there is any other medical reason for him being out of sorts.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

I had such an awful time keeping Stan away from Betty this last season (and his crying was awful to hear) that I may consider Tardak next time one of the bitches are in season and I don't want him to mate them.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

luvmydogs said:


> I had such an awful time keeping Stan away from Betty this last season (and his crying was awful to hear) that I may consider Tardak next time one of the bitches are in season and I don't want him to mate them.


Would you not worry he may end up like your friends dog? With depression and aggression? It doesn't seem worth it, especially if he could maybe stay with friends instead.

I don't think it would take effect right away anyway, so if he were to catch one of them they may still end up with pups, also if you are planning on studding him I would worry about long term damage to the sperm, you never know how these things effect in the real long term. I wonder if after use there are any birth defects from dogs who have had this in the past.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Would you not worry he may end up like your friends dog? With depression and aggression? It doesn't seem worth it, especially if he could maybe stay with friends instead.
> 
> I don't think it would take effect right away anyway, so if he were to catch one of them they may still end up with pups, also if you are planning on studding him I would worry about long term damage to the sperm, you never know how these things effect in the real long term. I wonder if after use there are any birth defects from dogs who have had this in the past.


Yes that's my worry but I was thinking maybe percentage wise it's very unusual for that to happen. But you're right, it's not worth the risk. I'll have to put one of them in kennels I think.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Quite a few negative responses on champ dogs forum when I've read about chemical castration, some had the implants taken out because the dogs changed so much and many said it was nothing like the change once a dog was neutered. 

I think its a much better idea than going straight for the neuter but only if it really does give some insight into how the op will affect behaviour. I don't know if Tardak is an implant but if its not the dogs stuck with it whatever the outcome, which is worse. 

Can bitches not be given a birth control pill to delay seasons? When I bred and showed pedigree cats in the 70's, early 80's, I used to put my females on the birth control pill so as they and the tom could still live together. It never affected their ability to conceive when I wanted either.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Kilo has the Suprelorin implant, he was displaying behaviours which I thought might be hormone driven. He's done well on the implant and I am currently getting the RSPCA face and some whines as he's not had breakfast this morning - he is going to the vet's to be castrated surgically.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi

My experience with Tardak ( injection) wasn't positive and I wouldn't do it again. Whilst my male didn't become aggressive, it did lead to pronounced behavioural and personality changes.

Not sure whether those could most accurately be described as "depressed". For the lack of a better description he appeared and behaved as if he was permanently medically sedated. Sluggish, without zest...as if he had suddenly aged 10 years overnight.

Scared the pants off me.

It did subside and resolve after a couple of weeks or soafter which I had my dog back. Still, under no circumstance would I consent to it again. 

The inherent problem with a long-acting injectable drug like Tardak ( as with any long acting drug) is that once it is in the system, there is no way to reverse it should the dog react unfavourably to it. Owner and dog just have to ride it out. How long this ride will take is difficult to assess beforehand since all dogs react differently.

I have no personal experience with the chip ( Supralorin, and there is another one starting with "y" whose name presently escapes me) but the vast majority of owners reports I have read were largely positive. Plus, I suppose, the other advantage is that the chip can be removed if there are unwelcome side effects.

HTH


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Hi
> 
> My experience with Tardak ( injection) wasn't positive and I wouldn't do it again. Whilst my male didn't become aggressive, it did lead to pronounced behavioural and personality changes.
> 
> ...


Only for the first few weeks; after that it can't be removed.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Dogless said:


> Only for the first few weeks; after that it can't be removed.


Interesting. Thank you, learned something new.

Would you know the reason why the chip can't be removed after that?

I'm assuming the reason is that it would cause a too rapid change in hormones, e.g. a sharp increase in testosterone, or a decline in...whatever suppresses testosterone ( oestrogen? Progesterone?).


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Interesting. Thank you, learned something new.
> 
> Would you know the reason why the chip can't be removed after that?
> 
> I'm assuming the reason is that it would cause a too rapid change in hormones, e.g. a sharp increase in testosterone, or a decline in...whatever suppresses testosterone ( oestrogen? Progesterone?).


The implant apparently becomes more porous and softens over time making removal very difficult after a while.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Dogless said:


> The implant apparently becomes more porous and softens over time making removal very difficult after a while.


Thank you.

For some unknown reason this chip piqued my interest...and you are spot on. Thanks to the magnificience that is Google, I found that Suprelorin is deemed to be biocompatible, self disolving but can be located via ultrasound and surgically removed if the side effects outweigh the benefits. Aha.

Still seems a dicey undertaking - albeing less risky than the injection- as by the time the side effects are fully kicking in, the chip might be disintegrating. IF the chip is disintegrating. My concerns would include that the chip could a) migrate b) not disolve c) since my dogs were microchipped......just how many implants, temporary or otherwise, are medically advisable?

What was the drug they used to give prisoners years ago to depress their libido? Can't remember the name but wasn't it something they put in their drinking water? I am wondering whether this wouldn't constitute a better option for dogs - a daily pill* rather than a long acting injection or chip.

* by "daily pill" I mean something admistered for a short duration - say whilst a female in the same house is in season - not indefinitly!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

luvmydogs said:


> Yes that's my worry but I was thinking maybe percentage wise it's very unusual for that to happen. But you're right, it's not worth the risk. I'll have to put one of them in kennels I think.


I don't think it's worth the risk to your boys beautiful temperament.

Also he has produced such lovely pups, you don't want to jeopardise that at all.
Especially with the low numbers in the breed.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Thank you.
> 
> For some unknown reason this chip piqued my interest...and you are spot on. Thanks to the magnificience that is Google, I found that Suprelorin is deemed to be biocompatible, self disolving but can be located via ultrasound and surgically removed if the side effects outweigh the benefits. Aha.
> 
> ...


I can only think of bromide, used to combat soldiers' lust - allegedly!!

The chip was indeed a big decision for me; turned out to be the right one for my dog but as you say a gamble.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> I don't think it's worth the risk to your boys beautiful temperament.
> 
> Also he has produced such lovely pups, you don't want to jeopardise that at all.
> Especially with the low numbers in the breed.


Agreed. :thumbsup:


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## helenthemum (Jan 25, 2009)

After a lot of thought I took my pup to the vet yesterday who talked to me about the pros and cons and he observed the pup he said go straight for castration.

He said it shouldn't make him worse, however it won't necessarily make him better behaved either.

My pup is booked in for next Friday and I can be with him when he has his pre-med.

The vet has also suggested getting an Apdaptil plug-in defuser as he seems apprehensive a lot of the time which wont be helping.

If the 2 together help him just a little I will be a very happy mummy and can work on the rest through training and careful management.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Tollisty said:


> I think the implant is better at giving you an idea of how castration would change your dog.


Lovely looking dogs (duck tolling retrievers) - I wondered what they were and then saw the breed name underneath the pic. They are stunningly beautiful.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

luvmydogs said:


> This is from a friend who has a Bullmastiff: "I just wanted to post a word of caution about using Tardak. When my bullmastiff boy was about a year old I was having the same dilemma as you.
> 
> I just couldn't decide what to do for the best and in the end I decided to use Tardak - the vet and a behaviourist I discussed the problem with assured me that it was the same as surgical castration but would wear off if I didn't like the effects.
> 
> ...


This is dreadful, and terribly sad, for you and your friend, and for the dogs. The vets involved surely have and ethical obligation to warn people that this might happen


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

lostbear said:


> Lovely looking dogs (duck tolling retrievers) - I wondered what they were and then saw the breed name underneath the pic. They are stunningly beautiful.


Thank you


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