# Unique Husky face marking, Any insight on why?



## WulfWraith (Aug 19, 2012)

Hi, I have a 3 month old Siberian Husky X Alaskan Malamute with some unique face markings. I was just wondering if it is because of the cross breeding or if it is a sign of anything else?, Don't get me wrong I love his unique look, along with his one partial blue eye, I have just never seen another husky with similar markings.



















http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/198865_10152017011180173_102681324_n.jpg

Some more pictures as requested










My GF's parents ****-tzu not wanting to play with him lol




































Sprinkler Fun


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Honestly been around sibes for many years and have not seen this. I've seen what is often called Piebald where they have less markings and almost spots but usually a white face.










Never seen markings go onto the face like that, very interesting


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## Staceybob (Jun 13, 2009)

I would assume it's because of the cross breeding. It's something I've not seen, and very distinguishable.

Stacey xxx


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

I've never seen it either 

He's a lovely boy xxx


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## Paula07 (Aug 23, 2010)

No idea why but they are beautiful markings!


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## WulfWraith (Aug 19, 2012)

The breeder where i got him said he has never seen another husky like that, and any google research i have done has left me empty handed


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Can't help you on his markings, but just wanted to say he is stunning:001_wub:


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

Oh gosh he is stunning!! I have no idea why the markings have come out like this but he is absolutley beautiful


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

WulfWraith said:


> The breeder where i got him said he has never seen another husky like that, and any google research i have done has left me empty handed


Posted to soem friends and on facebook for you, hopefully someone will know


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Most markings tend to be symmetrical same on both sides. Having a full mask, goggles and a bar is not unusual. His difference is really the asymmetrial dark marking on the one side of his nose.

Malamutes dont have blue eyes, if they do crop up its a fault in the Malamute. Mals have dark eyes except for the reds where light eyes are permitted in the breed standard.

In siberian Huskies two blue, two brown, or one of each is permitted or even a partial or split eye a mix of blue and brown in the one eye. So his Blue must come from the sibe side.


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## Calinyx (Oct 14, 2011)

What a bonnie lad


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

WulfWraith said:


> Hi, I have a 3 month old *Siberian Husky X Alaskan Malamute* with some unique face markings. I was just wondering if it is because of the cross breeding or if it is a sign of anything else?, Don't get me wrong I love his unique look, along with his one partial blue eye, I have just never seen another husky with similar markings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If he is a cross breed then srely this is why?

I mean your not guaranted which traits are going to show through so as he isnt pure bred registered husky then im guessing its something to do with his breed mixture.

Did you see the parents markings?


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## LahLahsDogs (Jul 4, 2012)

No idea why, I guess it's just one of those things (whatever that is!).. but he's lovely! Very handsome little lad


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## WulfWraith (Aug 19, 2012)

SpringerHusky said:


> Posted to soem friends and on facebook for you, hopefully someone will know


Thanks for the help


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## WulfWraith (Aug 19, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> If he is a cross breed then srely this is why?
> 
> I mean your not guaranted which traits are going to show through so as he isnt pure bred registered husky then im guessing its something to do with his breed mixture.
> 
> Did you see the parents markings?


yea, I seen both parents, I took a picture of both of them, ill post it as soon as i can (they are on my GF's phone right now lol)

The Dad 









The Mom









The mom is the malamute, also with blue eye's, so i'm guessing not 100% malamute either


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Milliepoochie said:


> If he is a cross breed then srely this is why?
> 
> I mean your not guaranted which traits are going to show through so as he isnt pure bred registered husky then im guessing its something to do with his breed mixture.
> 
> Did you see the parents markings?


Both Malamutes and Sibes have Mask markings, neither breed is known for having these patches, so being a mal x sibe makes no difference as it's unheard of in both breeds.


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## Staceybob (Jun 13, 2009)

WulfWraith said:


> The breeder where i got him said he has never seen another husky like that, and any google research i have done has left me empty handed


Point being though, is he isn't a husky. He's a husky cross.

I would assume there's been a rare gene clash in the husky to malamute breeding that's caused it.

Stacey xxx


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> Both Malamutes and Sibes have Mask markings, neither breed is known for having these patches, so being a mal x sibe makes no difference as it's unheard of in both breeds.


But the mum is a malamute with blue eyes so not breed standard to start with  At the end of the day the dog has unknown parentage and is not purebreed.

Genetics is complicated and I am not an expert but I would think its to do with the mixed genetics which have caused it.

No insult meant ot the OP as its a beautiful pupster but is a mongrel just like my Millie :thumbup: And mixed breeds bring with them interesting unique quirks :thumbup:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

If anything I should imagine its come from possibly the Husky side for colors
the Husky breed stadard reads
Colour

All colours and markings, including white, allowed. Variety of markings on head is common, including many striking patterns not found in other breeds. 
The Kennel Club

Where as Mal breed standard says
Colour

Range is from light grey through intermediate shadings to black, or from gold through shades of red to liver, always with white on underbody, parts of legs, feet and part of mask markings. Markings either caplike or masklike on face. Combination of cap and mask not unusual. White blaze on forehead, white collar, or spot on nape permissible. Heavy mantling of unbroken colour acceptable, broken colour extending over body in spots or uneven splashings undesirable. Only solid colour permissible is all white. 
The Kennel Club


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Milliepoochie said:


> But the mum is a malamute with blue eyes so not breed standard to start with  At the end of the day the dog has unknown parentage and is not purebreed.
> 
> Genetics is complicated and I am not an expert but I would think its to do with the mixed genetics which have caused it.
> 
> No insult meant ot the OP as its a beautiful pupster but is a mongrel just like my Millie :thumbup: And mixed breeds bring with them interesting unique quirks :thumbup:


Mum looks to be a sibe x mal also.

So likely the pup is 3/4 sibe 1/4 malamute.

I dunno wonder if it's a strain from the piebald gene and being mixed it freaked out? lol


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

WulfWraith said:


> yea, I seen both parents, I took a picture of both of them, ill post it as soon as i can (they are on my GF's phone right now lol)
> 
> The Dad
> 
> ...


The Mums likely a Malamute/sibe cross which is what one of mine is and also has blue eyes.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

siberians usually have symetrical markings (unless its a pied) but even in pure bred dogs you sometimes see more unusual patterns, i know of a 'dirty faced' agouti with a white splash on one side of his muzzle.. all colours and markings are acceptable in the breed.

his mother isnt a pure mal.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

WulfWraith said:


> Hi, I have a 3 month old Siberian Husky X Alaskan Malamute with some unique face markings. I was just wondering if it is because of the cross breeding or if it is a sign of anything else?, Don't get me wrong I love his unique look, along with his one partial blue eye, I have just never seen another husky with similar markings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

what a lovely puppy  
welcome to the forum


Vicki


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## lolhall (Jul 29, 2012)

SpringerHusky said:


> Honestly been around sibes for many years and have not seen this. I've seen what is often called Piebald where they have less markings and almost spots but usually a white face.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow what a beautiful dog


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## Izzysmummy (Oct 12, 2011)

Wow! He's lovely! I'm not sure about his markings and I don't know much about either of the breeds in his cross so it could just be a random thing that the cross has thrown up. I've seen pictures of chimeric mice and he reminded me of them, its really rare and probably very unlikely but its just what came to mind when I saw him; heres a link to wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)


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## WulfWraith (Aug 19, 2012)

delca1 said:


> WulfWraith said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, I have a 3 month old Siberian Husky X Alaskan Malamute with some unique face markings. I was just wondering if it is because of the cross breeding or if it is a sign of anything else?, Don't get me wrong I love his unique look, along with his one partial blue eye, I have just never seen another husky with similar markings.
> ...


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Lovely name! More photos needed though


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## WulfWraith (Aug 19, 2012)

delca1 said:


> Lovely name! More photos needed though


i can do that, ill post some of his puppy ones also


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Phantom is lovely; welcome to PF!


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## Big bully (Aug 7, 2012)

When you are that beautiful does it really matter why!!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

He is so beautiful


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

Both of your pups parents are domino patterned - which is what causes the white masking on the face.

You can read about that here and compare some photos with Malamutes. -http://nicholescritters.homestead.com/malcolorgeneticsDomino.html

The genetics of patterns and markings reach across all breeds with only rare patterns unique to some breeds. My recollection is that Domino markings are inherited the same (recessively) in both type of Huskies that parented your pup. With these parents he too should have been domino patterned as well . . . on both sides of his head.

Your boy is special. There are not known gene patterns that cause his split mask like this . . . and I believe he shows these markings because he has a mutation unique to just him that happened in his development. He shows domino on just one side of his face and a black mask pattern on the other (or possibly just a large spot of black). This should be impossible.










This sometimes can be seen illustrated in 'spotted' labradors . . . this Lab being a striking example (a yellow labrador in fact that has areas of mutation where the eumelanin 'black' coloring has come through).










The explanation of the somatic mutation that causes this is on this page - Greenstone Labradors » Understanding mismarks



> . . . There are two possible ways by which an individual may become a mosaic. The first is called chromosome nondisjunction by which during division into daughter cells, one of the chromosomes fails to separate from its duplicated chromosome. As a result, one daughter cell receives an extra chromosome and the other receives an unpartnered-chromosome.
> 
> The second way that a mosaic may be produced is called chromosome loss by which the chromosome containing the dominant allele gets left behind when the daughter cell's nucleus reconstitutes.
> 
> In either situation described above, the daughter cells of these altered somatic cells will contain the same alterations. As a result, one will observe a mosaic or brindled pattern of normal color mixed with color produced by the altered somatic cells. This condition has been reported in a Lab showing mosaic black and yellow coat color. When this Lab was bred to other Labs of normal coat colors of black, chocolate, or yellow, it was determined that the variation in color was not due to a mutated E locus allele (like the "ebr" allele) because none of the offspring demonstrated this phenotype. Rather, this coat characteristic was attributed to a chromosomal alteration as described above.


Your Husky is gorgeous and you should celebrate his uniqueness.

CC


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Most markings tend to be symmetrical same on both sides. Having a full mask, goggles and a bar is not unusual. His difference is really the asymmetrial dark marking on the one side of his nose.
> 
> Malamutes dont have blue eyes, if they do crop up its a fault in the Malamute. Mals have dark eyes except for the reds where light eyes are permitted in the breed standard.
> 
> In siberian Huskies two blue, two brown, or one of each is permitted or even a partial or split eye a mix of blue and brown in the one eye. So his Blue must come from the sibe side.


do you have any links of blue eyes cropping up in ped mals with proven lineage? Its something ive never come across 



SpringerHusky said:


> Both Malamutes and Sibes have Mask markings, neither breed is known for having these patches, so being a mal x sibe makes no difference as it's unheard of in both breeds.


actually hun splashes can occur anywhere on the body, it is seen in mals, sibes, klee kais and Greenland Eskimo dogs. Split bars, googles etc are more common than alot of people think however it is not desirable so if it crops up the dog is normally neutered (in AKKs and Malamutes). Splashes on sibes are very common, almost any pattern can crop up so the marking isnt that uncommon.
I actually saw a line in germany of Malamutes where the pups were almost totally black, appart from white toes and eyebrows.

Still at a loss as to why these dogs are being bought when Mal/Sibe rescues have plenty of puppies available but that is another thread. . .


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## Baileys Blind (Jan 23, 2012)

Don't know about the markings but in humans the split iris colour is called Sectoral Heterochromia


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Starlite said:


> do you have any links of blue eyes cropping up in ped mals with proven lineage? Its something ive never come across


The first AKC Breed standard was 1935. There was an Interim standard in 1960. Then in 1982 the standard was amended to include blue eyes as a disqualification.

Here is some links not only on eye colour but also the long coat gene
malcoatcolor

malcoatcolor


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## Fifi McK (Apr 13, 2012)

Welcome to PF.
Phantom is absolutely georgeous! :thumbup:


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

"Patchy" markings are extremely common in Siberian Huskies - especially in piebalds. This pup is merely an extreme example of a normal phenomenon. If you look at piebald sibes, their body markings are very rarely symmetrical and there is no reason why their facial markings should be either. 

Mick


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

> "Patchy" markings are extremely common in Siberian Huskies - especially in piebalds. This pup is merely an extreme example of a normal phenomenon. If you look at piebald sibes, their body markings are very rarely symmetrical and there is no reason why their facial markings should be either.
> 
> Mick


Mick, you are wrong about the facial markings.

Genetics which govern piebald patches are totally different than those that govern domino masking on the heads (and the bodies) of dogs. They are governed on different loci.

A domino pattern procludes eumelanin (black in this case) from showing on the muzzle and produces even markings . . . except for in VERY unusual circumstances such as a mutation.

Piebald patches or markings are a whole 'nuther story. This dog is not piebald marked so that doesn't even come into play here.

I invite you to help me find photos of other domino patterned huskies with patching on their muzzles. I've been looking and so far have come up empty.

This is a domino pup (tanpoint) from the Malamute 'domino' explanation page (linked above as well). - http://nicholescritters.homestead.com/malcolorgeneticsDomino.html










Below is a non-domino pup (tanpoint).










To show the effect on body markings, below is a litter of - all tanpoint - Lapponian Herders (courtesy of Liisa fromt the coat color genetics list). Two pups are domino marked and can be easily identified.










Domino is noted for producing crisp clear facial markings EVEN on piebald marked dogs and for NOT allowing black masking to show through.

CC


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

comfortcreature said:


> Mick, you are wrong about the facial markings.
> 
> Genetics which govern piebald patches are totally different than those that govern domino masking on the heads (and the bodies) of dogs.
> 
> ...


the "Domino" pattern is a theory within Nordic breeds, it hasnt been studied in them only in other breeds am I right?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Comparing whats accepted in colours and Markings in the Malamute and whats acceptable in the Siberian there does seem to be a big difference. There are markings both facial and body in a Mal that is classed as miss marking or controversial or undisireable that wouldnt be thought of as such in a Sibe and quite acceptable and non symetrical and broken markings seems to be one of them.


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

> the "Domino" pattern is a theory within Nordic breeds, it hasnt been studied in them only in other breeds am I right?


The domino allele has yet to be found in Huskies (chemically/genetically) . . . mostly because the studies haven't been funded to go there yet (they are expensive). Most of the alleles that were postulated since the mid century have yet to be found for this reason as well. We still utilise the observational knowledge that we have established. As an example we've all known black (B allele) was dominant to brown (b allele) on the B locus for a very long time - it didn't take allele identification to establish that.

A separate 'E' locus allele causing grizzle/domino masking has been found in Afghan Hounds and Salukis. There is some question about its position on the extension locus with most putting E'm' and E as dominant to E'g'. With only one E/E'g' dog in one study and with some question as to her patterning it will remain in contention until more is done.

I have pedigree tracked the domino pattern in Tibetan Spaniels, where it is rare, and it passes on recessively there in the lines I found it in. I also have tracked it in mixed breed Husky litters (the common sled dog) and native dogs where I live/have lived and I find domino passed on in a recessive pattern to E'm' (black masked) or E (non-masked).



> The E locus is responsible for the black mask seen in many breeds, and more significantly, for the presence of the yellow to red coats of many dogs. The gene involved is known as MC1-R, which has *at least three versions *affecting the appearance of the dog, E, Em, and e. Dogs with two copies of e will be yellow, orange or red in their pigmented coat regardless of their genotype at all the other loci
> 
> Research at VetGen and independently at the University of Saskatchewan has identified two new alleles in the E locus, Eg and Eh. These mutations are responsible for a reverse mask or widow's peak appearance in the "domino" Afghan Hound and "grizzle" Saluki (Eg), as well as the "sable" English Cocker Spaniel (Eh). Research continues to determine if they are responsible for similar appearance in additional breeds.


VetGen: Veterinary Genetic Services - Canine - List of Services - Coat Color



> Domino is a locus which has been theorized in dogs, but not studied at this date. What is known about this locus comes from a small handful of breeds including Malamutes, Siberian Huskies, Finnish Lapphunds and Lapponian Herders. Domino is recessive to non-domino, and is responsible for the appearance of most Malamutes. Domino acts on the agouti locus, reducing facial markings and eliminating the sootiness seen in Agouti dogs. This can particularly be seen in pups, where large white "eyebrows" and a well defined mask on the face right from birth are a classic sign of Domino. Domino also extends the size of the phaeomelanin bands in the coat. In Agouti this eliminates most banding except along the topline, leaving just the dark eumelanin tip on an otherwise light hair, and giving an overall grizzled appearance. In Tan Point dogs, Domino produces a phaeomelanin band at the base of the hair. . .
> 
> . . . Dogs that are homozygous for recessive Domino will have crisp clean facial markings from birth and an increase in the phaeomelanin band at the base of their coat. The vast majority of Malamutes are Domino. Domino turns Agouti into Sable or Gray and turns Tan Point into Seal.


http://www.kwestmals.com/malcoatcolor.html

CC


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