# 6 Month old pup, completely untrained! Need advice.



## ClaireandBrody (Feb 7, 2011)

I have taken in a 6 month old puppy that needed a new home as it's previous owners had moved into a property and THEN been told no to the dog, having previously been told yes.

Anyway, a little about him and I - As I said he is 6 months old and I have been told he is an Italian Spinone cross. Not quite sure what he has been crossed with! I am not too sure what the previous owners have been doing with him, but he literally knows nothing. He doesn't seem to recognise the word no and I think just been allowed to run riot.

I have been told he is house trained, but he has had a few accidents, which I guess is to be expected after a change in home. I am making sure he goes outside about every hour and a half, or after a sleep etc. 

PUPPY BITING:

The things that worry me more is the fact that he puppy bites... obviosuly there are adult teeth in there now! Literally everytime I go to pat him on the head as I walk past him, he tries to play bite. If I pull away he will then go to grab onto the bottom of my dress or cardigan. What's the best way to handle this please? I have a feeling that the previous owner has play wrestled and played tug of war etc with him and that's the reason for this behaviour perhaps?

FURNITURE:

Another problem are the sofas etc - I have been told he doesn't get on sofas. Well, he certainly likes getting on mine! Everytime he jumps up, I gently push him down and say 'off'. Is this the right thing to be doing? A lot of the time when I push him ddown and say 'off' though he then tries to play bite, so in effect I have two problems in one!

OTHER DOGS:

Also the previous owners have never let him out of their back garden, so he has never had jabs. So the poor sod has never been out on a walk. I have him booked in for his vaccinations at the end of this week. I have noticed though, that obviously as he has never been out, that when he is in my garden and sees dogs in the field next door that he's growling/barking. I am unsure what to do about this as I don't want to chastise him for defending himself, but obviously can't have him growling and barking at every dog that he sees.

MY CAT:

I also have a cat, he's doing the above to the cat too .... at the moment I am keeping them seperate but letting them see one another whenever I can, to show them that the other is here to stay etc .... any advice regarding this would be grateful. I had thought maybe a baby gate for the time being so that they can see one another?

I have only had him a few days and I know it's very early days, but I am finding myself already thinking 'blimey, what on earth have I done?' lol ... 

I am due a baby at the very end of May, so I really do need to get these habits in check, so if anyone could offer any help I would be most grateful, as I would love him to be a wonderful companion for myself and my daughter.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

First of all, welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place for advice. Secondly, well done for taking on this poor doggie.

If he looks anything at all like a pure bred Italian Spinona (pictures would be great) he is or is going to be a big dog. Obviously you cannot carry him into the vets for his injections, which is what would be done with a small puppy, so don't have any advice on that except perhaps try some socks on him.

First the walking. I would if I were you start him off with a dogmatic headcollar, double ended lead and ordinary flat collar. Do not use a choke chain, they can cause neck damage. You clip one end to the headcollar and the other to his collar. I say this because he is going to pull like crazy when he finally gets out into the big wide world. He cannot pull with a headcollar so for safety's sake, whilst you are trying to train him to walk nicely, I think it is a must. Also if they never get used to being able to pull, you may find that he doesn't bother once he is used to walking. Certainly do not let him off lead until you have some reliable recall and got him properly socialised.

Now the biting. He should of course have been trained out of this long ago, but a few tips. Do not pat his head; he could either see it as threatening or he could see it as part of the game. Approach from his nose end so that he can see your hand coming. If he bites, do not whisk your hand away or he will want to chase it. If possible, try to keep your hand still and offer a distraction, like a squeaky toy from your other hand. When he lets go of the hand, give him the toy. You can put a no in when he grabs your hand or you can do it without. He will get the message either way. If this does not work and he carries on, try just walking away or putting him somewhere quiet, like behind the baby gate.

The cat: It might be good if you can teach him the leave it command, and apply it to the cat. It will take a long time as he is older, but try putting a treat on the floor, have another in your other hand and let him know you have it. If he leaves the one on the floor say leave it and give him the other one. You can also use two balls or two squeaky toys, whatever turns him on. Once he has learned to leave it, it can also be applied when the cat appears, tell him leave it and if he comes away, give him a treat.

The sofa: If you really do not want him up there, teach him off by throwing a treat on the floor and when he gets down say off. But he also needs to be taught to sit and stay first, so that he is off the sofa, sitting and staying before he gets his treat. If he has a bed of his own, then keep it near the sofa and put the treat there. If he has been used to getting on the sofa, this is going to be a long haul.

As to the other dogs he can see, he has obviously had no socialisation whatsoever, but a dog may bark and growl at dogs they can see from their garden, but not outside. As far as he is concerned they are on his territory. When you finally manage to get him outside, try to avoid direct contact, i.e. face to face with other dogs, till he gets more used to them. If possible try to find a dog to follow, so he is getting the scent but they are not so threatening. Later, you can do a very brief face to face greeting, no more than a couple of seconds.

I would also add that if you are expecting a baby, try to get him used to baby smells now. Sprinkle a little baby powder about, carry a doll, whatever.

You certainly have your work cut out, but it will be very rewarding. You might also look round from some decent training classes. Go along on your own and see if you can watch a session to be sure they are the right sort for you and your dog.

And don't forget those pictures!


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## Mydass (Jan 28, 2011)

I would say

1) Puppy Bitting

Each time he goes to bit I would say in a very strong voice NO

2) Furniture

As with the above gently push him off with the strong word OFF and the as he goes to bite again a strong NO

3) Other Dogs

He needs to go some where to socialize such as Puppy Classes

4) Cat

As above I would slowly introduce him to your cat and as he goes to chase it I would say NO.

With the cat and the other dogs he will need to be on a lead.

With a dog that has not done any training at all needs time and as he has got bad habits these need to be dealt with quickly.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Agree with above and also try this link. Make him work for everything he gets from you. Make it fun and do some training with him for treats. Briberey works wonders with dogs, lol! 

Nothing in Life is Free


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Just one thing, when we say treats we don't mean a dog biscuit! You need high value treats, like chicken pieces, liver cake, cheese if he likes it. Stuff he will not get for anything else but training. He won't co-operate for a boring old dog biscuit or something he gets all the time.


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## ClaireandBrody (Feb 7, 2011)

Thank you so much for your replies 

I have been finding out about classes, and there's one near me that does puppy socialisation as well as a basic obedience course. The latter is 10 weeks long, so hoping I might be able to complete that before I give birth!

I shall continue the 'off' regime with the sofa and also the jumping up at me, he's not been trying so much to get up on the sofa and I only started 'off' last night, so hopefull it'll start to sink in soon.

As for the biting, from having a read I think that I might have a go at saying 'no' sternly without tearing my hand away and try offering him a toy instead.

I have been having a go at teaching him to sit today, but he just looks at me as though I am barking (pardon the pun!) ... I have been doing this with scraps of cheese, which he seems to like. I know that with the sit this is also a great thing for him to learn with general behaviour anyway, so tomorrow I'll also get some meat treats to keep in my pocket to keep him interested.

I know it's going to be a slow process with the cat. It doesn't help that the cat is completely petrified and makes a show of himself when he sees the dog lol. I'll put the baby gate up between the hallway and my bedroom (where the cat is on my bed) so they can get used to one another and it won't be such a novelty for Brody, but also the cat may not be so frightened.

With the barking at other dogs I am hoping that once he has mastered sit and knows he will get a treat this this will also become a handy tool for this situation? To turn him to face me, get him to sit and a treat? Or am I going in the wrong direction with that?


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

This isn't 'puppy' biting - he has adult teeth! This is mouthing and has got to do with poor self control, frustration and just not knowing a more appropriate way of getting what he wants.

At six months he is not suitable for puppy socialisation. If this guy has not had contact with other dogs since babyhood I would be very concerned about his bite inhibition and plus he has adult teeth.

I would also be very concerned about his social experience with other dogs. The barking at the fence is normal in many dogs, even those well socialised. But it does raise a flag to me about leash reactivity which has a similar base.

I am also terribly worried that this guy has not been outside a garden for six months :scared:His social skills and level of experience will be minimal if that is the case.

I can give you some links to info on dealing with some of the issues you mention but the overall concern that i feel is most urgent is his overall socialisation background, or lackthereof as the case may be.

I would encourage you to seek a trainer willing to do at least one2one with you before you engage in class. Have a look at a temperament evaluation and to assess his ability to cope in varying social situations.
It may be necessary, as a result, of that it may be best to continue with one2ones sessions or move on to class. But without more of idea of his coping abilities and bounce-back-ability i can't say which will be better.

Teaching sofa manners is probably the easiest one of the bunch! Whether you want to let him up on the sofa or not is personal choice and on one condition - that it is on your terms.
When not working on training don't allow him free access to the sofa where he is likely to get up without permission. No more pushing him down - its not nice and there are better ways of teaching him, rather than coercing and forcing.
Teach him to go lie onto his bed or mat that you can have near the sofa. When he is there feed him or give him a stuffed Kong to work on. Spend time sitting beside him on the floor - make this the place to be!

Invite him up onto the sofa with a pat and allow him up for a two count. Say 'off' and toss three of his favourite yummies onto the floor away from the sofa.
When he gets off, toss another two to him.Repeat often and at the beginning only allow him for the 2 count as its harder to get off, the longer you have been up there!
When he begins to understand that 'off' means check out the floor quickly! allow him onthe sofa for progressively longer periods.

More on mothing here:
Nipping and mouthing and biting oh my! | Pet Central&#039;s Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

More on cat-dog relations here:
Living like cats and dogs | Pet Central&#039;s Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

Best of luck


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Mydass said:


> I would say
> 
> 1) Puppy Bitting
> 
> ...


So "NO" pretty much cures everything, right?


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## Mydass (Jan 28, 2011)

Colliepoodle said:


> So "NO" pretty much cures everything, right?


In actual fact "NO" is a very good word to use, along with the use of the tone of voice.

Dogs and other animals need discipline and a good firm voice is better than hitting them or not coping at all.

Tripod


At six months he is not suitable for puppy socialisation :D[/QUOTE said:


> I disagree with what you say I think that any dog can benefit from going to classes and if that class is a puppy class fine


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

ClaireandBrody said:


> ...the previous owners have never let him out of their back garden, so he has never had jabs.
> So the poor sod has never been out on a walk. I have him booked in for his vaccinations at the end of this week.
> I have noticed though, that obviously as he has never been out, that when he is in my garden and sees dogs
> in the field next door that he's growling/barking. I am unsure what to do about this as I don't want to chastise him
> for *defending himself*, but obviously can't have him growling and barking at every dog that he sees.


he's 6-MO so walking him about is not a threat to his health; infant-pups under 6-WEEKS-old are most at-risk, 
Parvo is rarely contracted by pups over 4-MO and is almost never serious / needs hospital care at that age 
or over, *unless the dog has a 2nd simultaneous illness or is immune-compromised.*

he isn't defending himself - he is probably unsure, but could just s easily be excited. 
i'd suggest a copy of Click to Calm, since it will help with Other Dogs, Cats, Kids, Traffic, etc... 
as he needs not only *socialization* to living beings, but *habituation* to anything outside the yard 
or house - he has a lot of catching-up to do. *and U have less than 3-months to do it.* :scared: 
good luck, hun! good on ya for taking him in. :thumbup:


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Mydass said:


> In actual fact "NO" is a very good word to use, along with the use of the tone of voice.
> 
> Dogs and other animals need discipline and a good firm voice is better than hitting them or not coping at all.
> 
> ...


I never said there was a problem with going to class, in fact I think i suggested evaluating the dog for suitability for class.

Puppy class is not for dogs with adult teeth - this defeats the purpose of puppy class. These dogs cannot learn bite inhibition in the same way as puppies with baby teeth can. 
Puppy classes should be run differently from adult dog classes, for that exact reason. And as such should have lots and lots and lots of time off leash so as to practice bite inhibition. 
An undersocialised teenage large breed dog is not safe at a puppy class.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

tripod said:


> An undersocialised teenage large breed dog is not safe at a puppy class.


yup - he needs a basic class or better yet, some one-to-one *before* beginning a group class.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Mydass said:


> In actual fact "NO" is a very good word to use, along with the use of the tone of voice.


And what if the magic "NO" doesn't work? After all, dogs don't speak English. He probably has no idea what "NO" means...



> Dogs and other animals need discipline


Yep - definitely. Discipline is mostly about learning - it's where the word "disciple" comes from.



> and a good firm voice is better than hitting them or not coping at all.


How about not hitting them, but also not yelling "NO" at them every 30 seconds?

Far better to teach them what you DO want


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## Mydass (Jan 28, 2011)

Colliepoodle said:


> And what if the magic "NO" doesn't work? After all, dogs don't speak English. He probably has no idea what "NO" means...
> 
> Yep - definitely. Discipline is mostly about learning - it's where the word "disciple" comes from.
> 
> ...


Maybe things are different in Essex but after retaining many a dog from rescue centers good basic voice commands are good. They may not understand English but the tone of voice that goes with that word they do understand. You just have to watch the adult dog how they treat / deal with pups and young dogs.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Mydass said:


> Maybe things are different in the USA


USA? Whose in the USA? LFL is, but things are exactly the same here. If you want a dog to respond to the word "no" or any other word, you have to teach him what it means. As for hitting them, no sensible person these days would do such a thing. It is all about teaching the dog what you want from him, not shouting foreign words at him, and they are foreign because he does not understand them.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2011)

Mydass said:


> Maybe things are different in the USA


I actually agree that you can say no til your blue in the face, he wont understand if hes never heard it. Saying it over and over may just desensitize him to it.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2011)

For the sofa problem, I would agree with nefies mum - supply a close alternative and call him to it. Make it (bed) more exciting than the sofa (you may sound like an idiot squealing and calling them off the sofa and onto a bed, but he will soon learn). Then reward for being in the bed periodically. regular at first then less and less often.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2011)

I echo this....



newfiesmum said:


> First the walking. I would if I were you start him off with a dogmatic headcollar, double ended lead and ordinary flat collar.
> 
> Now the biting. He should of course have been trained out of this long ago, but a few tips. *Do not pat his head*; he could either see it as threatening or he could see it as part of the game. Approach from his nose end so that he can see your hand coming. If he bites, do not whisk your hand away or he will want to chase it. I*f possible, try to keep your hand still and offer a distraction, like a squeaky toy from your other hand. When he lets go of the hand, give him the toy. You can put a no in when he grabs your hand or you can do it without. He will get the message either way*. If this does not work and he carries on, try just walking away or putting him somewhere quiet, like behind the baby gate.
> 
> *The sofa: If you really do not want him up there, teach him off by throwing a treat on the floor and when he gets down say off. But he also needs to be taught to sit and stay first, so that he is off the sofa, sitting and staying before he gets his treat*. If he has a bed of his own, then keep it near the sofa and put the treat there. If he has been used to getting on the sofa, this is going to be a long haul.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Mydass said:


> Maybe things are different in Essex but after retaining many a dog from rescue centers good basic voice commands are good. They may not understand English but the tone of voice that goes with that word they do understand. You just have to watch the adult dog how they treat / deal with pups and young dogs.


Uh, no - dogs are dogs pretty much the world over, and you can yell "NO" til you're blue in the face - it can act as an interrupter but it's far better to teach a dog what you DO want rather than try to stop it doing what you don't.

Maybe things are different in Hampshire so I'll try to put it simply - the word "NO" in itself means nothing to a dog. You might as well shout "BANANA".


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Well I'm in Essex but originally from London and a loud "Oi" works with mine - it's the tone and intention behind it that makes them stop in their stride. Don't have to shout it over and over - if I mean it they know alright!


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## ClaireandBrody (Feb 7, 2011)

Well the biting definitely seems to have toned down an awful lot... I haven't had to say anything to him about biting since yesterday lunchtime. With the sofa I would say 60% of the time he gets off when I say off.... so definite progress there.

We haven't seen another dog in the garden since yesterday morning, so haven't been able to try the 'focus him on you' method yet.

He did do a huge poo in here this morning though, but I only found it after he did it!!! I hope that's a one off!!

With the cat situation, my puss is still terrified and everytime they meet Brody is not only very interested, which is completely understandable, but then growls his head off and starts to bark. I just have a horrible feeling that they will never get on, and I can't have my cat forever terrified. He's a rescue cat and didn't have a nice life before he came here, so I do have to think of him.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Malmum said:


> Well I'm in Essex but originally from London and a loud "Oi" works with mine - it's the tone and intention behind it that makes them stop in their stride. Don't have to shout it over and over - if I mean it they know alright!


Oh yes - interruptors can work! The point I'm making though is that if you find yourself using "NO" in LOTS of situations, it's worth teaching them what you want them to do instead.

My responses to Mydass stem from the apparent assumption that a loud, firm "NO" will cure all sorts of behaviours.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

If you have to raise your voice, its unlikely the particular word that is working but more likely that your raised voice is intimidating and frightening.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

tripod said:


> This isn't 'puppy' biting - he has adult teeth! This is mouthing and has got to do with poor self control, frustration and just not knowing a more appropriate way of getting what he wants.


Absolutely! The dog walker I met regularly, who strongly advised me to use a very stern "No!", took years to train his dog out of mouthing and jumping up. The dubious "namby pamby" modern fangled methods advocated by people on this forum, like tripod, have basically eliminated the undesirable habits that were left at 6 months, in 3 or 4. Now we've been complimented by the skeptic more than once, that we did a good job and this "too soft" strategy has worked very well in practice. Just an anecdote, but relevant as it's so similar to the debate in this thread. The dog is still a bundle of energy, unafraid to express himself, keen to play, and lively and devoted to us. This matters to me, and means he's obedient from a long distance, not just withing intimidation range.

Teach the dog "Off!" (control with lead as appropriate), using withdrawal of attention from person that's mouthed/jumped on, and reward swiftly the desired behaviour and good doggy manners.

If you get a chance to see Victoria Stillwell's "It's Me or the Dog!" programmes, they very regularly show her effectively using positive reinforcement (R+) training, and getting rapid improvments. Once the dog handlers understand and put into practice the advised techniques, they are able to maintain and be empowered to effectively avoid future behavioural issues.



> At six months he is not suitable for puppy socialisation. If this guy has not had contact with other dogs since babyhood I would be very concerned about his bite inhibition and plus he has adult teeth.


If it's Spinone sized, at 6 months, it is going to be a very big bouncy dog, like a full grown Olde English Sheepdog, or Briard sized; way too intimidating to small puppies at such classes.

At some point, you just aren't going to be able to intimidate or physically control such a dog, and it's carnivore's teeth need to be respected. Working with the grain, and developing postive behaviours and a cooperative leadership role, who ensures good things for the follower makes much more sense.

Yes, Interruptors and Negative Feedback do work, but have drawback that you have to endlessly repeat them. It's teaching the desired postive good behaviours, which make for a relaxing and enjoyable time with the dog.

Who want's to be that person, everyone looks at in the park, who's having to yell "No!" at their dog all the time?


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Absolutely! The dog walker I met regularly, who strongly advised me to use a very stern "No!", took years to train his dog out of mouthing and jumping up. The dubious "namby pamby" modern fangled methods advocated by people on this forum, like tripod, have basically eliminated the undesirable habits that were left at 6 months, in 3 or 4. Now we've been complimented by the skeptic more than once, that we did a good job and this "too soft" strategy has worked very well in practice. Just an anecdote, but relevant as it's so similar to the debate in this thread. The dog is still a bundle of energy, unafraid to express himself, keen to play, and lively and devoted to us. This matters to me, and means he's obedient from a long distance, not just withing intimidation range.
> 
> Teach the dog "Off!" (control with lead as appropriate), using withdrawal of attention from person that's mouthed/jumped on, and reward swiftly the desired behaviour and good doggy manners.
> 
> ...


Great post and very good points.

No decent trainer is going to allow such a dog into his/her puppy classes - it could be enough to cause the puppies to be frightened of other dogs for months!


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Rob I know we've had this conversation before   but if you have to endlessley repeat them how is this 'working'?

Management to prevent recurrence, in that case, is going to be soooooo much more effective while teaching the right thing to do.

BTW haven't seen you around in a while - welcome back


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

tripod said:


> Rob I know we've had this conversation before   but if you have to endlessley repeat them how is this 'working'?


That's the point, I think it seems to work in short term perspective to many, even if it does not meet a higher standard of "working" taking a longer view. If dog avoids practising unwanted behaviour, then it can help. But one ought think about the wanted behaviour to, not just think you can stamp something out and fail to lead dog into mutually beneficial better behaviours.

An absolute total denial of any effect, would be only half the story, and is implausible given that very many will have experienced such and think "but it worked".

PS. Thanks for remembering me


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## Mydass (Jan 28, 2011)

Colliepoodle

AS I have been shouted down about my methods MAYBE people misunderstand what I have said, I will not bother to post again.

I do not constantly go on at the dog. I have trained Gun dogs to a high level for over 40 years and have had very good results with rescue / wayward dogs.

My methods are always kind but firm.


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## Terr (Mar 2, 2010)

From personal experience I find that it is ineffective to tell a dog to get off the sofa when you are both on it. I find it's best to stand up and in a clear and firm voice say '<name> off'. Usually I am not a believer in alpha tactics but I find dogs are less likely to take you seriously if they're sitting on the sofa with you. Obviously this only applies to when he jumps on while you're sitting on it.

Considering he has never been walked before, I agree that it's best to start him off on some kind of head collar. No doubt he is big enough to give you a run for your money in the strength department so no need to take chances with flat collars. I suggest a combination of head collar and harness for maximum control.

As for the nipping! That's a bridge that took me a while to cross with my puppy and I am absolutely sympathetic. On the bright side you do not have to deal with razor sharp devil teeth as his adult teeth should be in by now. I've always found the 'squeal like a schoolgirl' technique to work wonders with my dogs. Every time my dog's teeth touched me (yes, touched) I would yelp. It alarmed them so much that they would immediately stop what they were doing and stare at me like I was crazy. At this point click (if using clicker) or praise like mad. Took me about a week of consistent and persistent repetitions to teach my current dog but we did get there in the end.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Mydass said:


> I do not constantly go on at the dog. I have trained Gun dogs to a high level for over 40 years and have had very good results with rescue / wayward dogs.
> 
> My methods are always kind but firm.


As you are someone who's spent much time with dogs, I am sure that is so, and you're actually indicating (perhaps only by body language) what's desired. What you do in practice, is likely rather different from how a relatively inexperienced dog owner does reading and then trying to follow the same advice.

I'm sure you've seen endless ineffectual postering displays from owners in the park to selectively deaf dogs, who are not impressed by the strong words used and look confused, show appeasement gestures, flinch or simply not knowing better, decide after a few seconds thought to resume the unwanted behaviour because they *were not redirected onto another activity*. So when people strongly disagree, it is because they are fed up with the results they see in practice, in public.

Remember a public forum, is giving advice to effectively the general public, who haven't developed skills to read the dogs, or the timing & patience to achieve the results you would have. Many are passionate about that, and so a vigorous debate ensues and is regularly repeated, because no matter what behaviour science studies, or rational argument is given, some will continue advocating their pet method. You've walked into that.



Mydass said:


> In actual fact "NO" is a very good word to use, along with the use of the tone of voice.
> 
> Dogs and other animals need discipline and a good firm voice is better than hitting them or not coping at all.


"No" occurs regularly in conversation, does not convey what is wanted, so means the inexperienced handler does not focus on what is wanted but is in the *confrontational mindset of discipline, justice and retribution*. The dog just does not understand these human concepts. It leads to shouting, which if you observe how dogs keep order amongst themselves (is the equivalent of warning barking) and tends to excite, when the situation demands a calmer dog, responding to calm, confident leadership.

From the sound of the initial post, it's a young boisterous playful dog, who's been taken on at a stressful time in previous owner's lives (moving home) and now just settling into a new place.

Things that build their relationship, help the dog feel secure, develop impulse control are going to be important. Calm techniques, which don't rely on a long bond between owner and pet, are just far more likely to work in the re-homing situation.



> I disagree with what you say I think that any dog can benefit from going to classes and if that class is a puppy class fine


I'm sure everyone would agree with that, but it's about choosing an appropriate class, puppy classes are run differently to ones for dogs at the traditional training ages. tripod said clearly, that the right class would be subject to evaluation.

Having attended this year puppy partys & romps, traditional style class with young dogs and an advanced puppy class, the atmosphere is very different. A handler and poorly socialised, rambunctious, over excited large young dog, trained to respond to a loud sharp "No!" would not fit in with the puppy training I attended. My well socialised BC pup, handled the adult class well despite only reaching 6 months as the course ended. He basically ignored any barking and lunging by the older delinquents; but their behaviour required more space and emphasis on management which would defeat the idea of more playful and socialising puppy class.

The reason I've taken considerable time to post in this thread, is because I have seen "take charge" type techniques put into practice on young over excited dogs, with counter productive consequences. It is unpleasant to watch, and frustrating to see an intelligent and lively dog, be labelled a problem or "trying to be Dominant", when actually it's just being wound up by a vicious cycle of poor, non calm, inconfident handling.


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## littleBichon (Oct 4, 2010)

oh my god! I am just reading this thread thinking it sounds pretty much like Harry. We have tried and tried with him to stop him biting but nothing distracts him and now we have a problem with him barking. But Newfiesmum you have just turned on a switch in my head



newfiesmum said:


> Just one thing, when we say treats we don't mean a dog biscuit! You need high value treats, like chicken pieces, liver cake, cheese if he likes it. Stuff he will not get for anything else but training. He won't co-operate for a boring old dog biscuit or something he gets all the time.


Of course Harrys not going to listen to me for something that hes going to get in an hour for his tea is he!? He loves tuna and ive tried occasionally with him with that i think im going to rule out his ordinary biscuits for training. Ill continue reading with great interest for tips!

and OP good luck! I know how stressful a dog like this can make things and thats the last thing you need with a baby on the way.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

The trick is to avoid the very excited frantic state, by distracting early enough. The barking suggests to high excitement in Harry to.

Try rewarding calm behaviour and anything which builds impulse control. For instance a "Leave It!", the yummy treat is given from other hand when he backs nose away from the "lure" in hand, rather than trying to grab it.

With time, your dog will become better at focussing on you on demand, despite being excited about something, because you are very interestin


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