# Should we buy 2 puppies from the same litter?



## janniejanet (Dec 21, 2008)

Hi everyone! I'm new to this site...there seems to be lots of great advice out there! 

We are about to bring home our gorgeous new pup at the beginning of January. He's a long-coated german shepherd, and will be 8 weeks when he comes home to us. We've been visiting him regularly at the breeders - they are fantastic breeders and I can't praise them enough. The trouble is, as we've been visiting, we've started falling in love with another one of the litter, the only girl that is left! So we're now thinking about getting both of them! What do others that maybe have a brother/sister pair think? I've read mixed reviews. We're experienced pet owners but only ever had one dog at a time, although have grown up with more than one dog, so fully understand the dominant role one of them will take and the need to socialise both dogs separately so they don't get too dependent on one another. Will a brother/sister relationship be any different? I have two kids that argue all day, I don't want two dogs to do the same!! 

Anyone with any experience and advice of this would be much appreciated! Thanks, Janet


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

We got our 2 a year apart. From talking to other dog owners we were advised to get them seperately so you can train them and they bond with you and not each other.
Even getting them a year apart it has been harder to train Lilly than Zipper, if I did it again I would wait a little longer before introducing a new puppy.

Here's a link you might find interesting reading.
Rearing Siblings


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

Will the breeder allow you to have two? I personally wouldn't allow two to go together.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

As a dog trainer my advice would be never, I see lots of couples with pairs of pups coming to class, most of them regret it. Get the pup you've chosen now, form a relationship and train him, then think about another one.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

i have got 2 pups the same age and u seem to have basic knowledge about how to deal with them if u would get 2. Training seperatly, socialising seperatle and so on 

U really have to be sure if u have enough time for 2 as it will take over most of ur day to keep an eye on them, training, socialising, spending one on one time, walking seperate and so on.
Especially as gsd are a really demanding breed u have to be really sure and commitet about it


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

I got two gsds together both had same father differant mothers they are great but i would never do it again not two the same age, still trying to train after 18mths when together they take no notice of us at all apart they are great dogs, when one decides hes going to be naughty so is the other one as he follows , they have both had training and seperate one to one but outdoors its not worked at all , they pull like crazy when out together, on there own they are great, though we would never part with them as we love them to bits i would never get two the same age again, both mine are dogs may be different with a dog and a bitch,


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

jeanie said:


> I got two gsds together both had same father differant mothers they are great but i would never do it again not two the same age, still trying to train after 18mths when together they take no notice of us at all apart they are great dogs, when one decides hes going to be naughty so is the other one as he follows , they have both had training and seperate one to one but outdoors its not worked at all , they pull like crazy when out together, on there own they are great, though we would never part with them as we love them to bits i would never get two the same age again, both mine are dogs may be different with a dog and a bitch,


hi jeani, just being curious as my dogs are 7 months now and they walk mostly to heel when we are out. Sometimes they still try to pull but give up usually after a very short time.
What are u trying to stop them from pulling?


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## Angel44 (Feb 11, 2008)

14 Years ago we got a male and female gsd puppy from the same litter. My husband and I trained them together and separately, as well as swapping dogs/handlers. They were very bonded with us, but also to each other and spent hours playing together. We didn't have any problems whatsoever. Sadly both have now gone to rainbow bridge...


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

Hi, we have tried everything i think , Jazz is very hyper big dog 8 stone and Jet follows whatever he does, both good on recall and off lead but on lead they have pulled myself and oh over, we have had half checks , normal leads and collars, have had one to one training and the basic training for both but nothing seems to work unless we go out seperate with one each , indoors they are great dogs and do what we ask no probs but outside they become devils, tried clicker training , treats , long leads, short leads , to be honest we are at our wits end with the pulling and are finding it hard to walk them so we go over the moors and let them run no trouble there, i tried to take them back to basic training but they said they wouldnt be able to handle both of them as they dont like other dogs either
These are not the first gsds we have had so know quite a lot about them, have had gsds for 30 yrs now but only these two have been a problem but i have never had two the same age before


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I am getting a german shepherd puppy in jan too! 
I'm having the only girl of the litter and would love to take one of her brothers but it would just be too much hard work.
most often you get the puppies having too good a bond with eachother and not the owner
It's best to get one at a time and concentrate on him an get him trained before you get another 

I'm to go see my wee girl this week and collect her on 4 Jan
Have you got any pics and have you got a name yet?

x


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Natik said:


> i have got 2 pups the same age and u seem to have basic knowledge about how to deal with them if u would get 2. Training seperatly, socialising seperatle and so on
> 
> U really have to be sure if u have enough time for 2 as it will take over most of ur day to keep an eye on them, training, socialising, spending one on one time, walking seperate and so on.
> Especially as gsd are a really demanding breed u have to be really sure and commitet about it


*Totaly agree with Natik.
I regret getting my 2 poodles at the same age,they have been the worst 2 dogs i've ever owned.. (as far as training only). i love them both to bits..*


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## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

I went through the same thing earlier in the year. My two are brothers from the same litter. A lot of people said I was silly to get them but I don't regret it for one minute. It was hard work, very hard at first. I walked them separately for quite a while, trained them separately and played with them separately quite a bit. However, they are very bonded to me and to each other. They are just over 7 months old now and so far we haven't had any real problems, only once have they tried to fight and that didn't last long. 

They had separate cages but kept getting in the same one so I got rid of one, but they always slept together at night. 

I'm very lucky though, I am home with them all day and my OH only works part time so we were able to put in a lot of time and effort with the puppies, both together and separately. They are great company for each other and they always have someone to play with.

Having said that I am aware it is still very early days and problems may arise as they get a bit older. The trainer we took them to did say that as they were neutered early we may not get the 'dominance' problem arising.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I have 3 pups out of the same litter.I bred them myself Amber and Simba were always going to stay with us and little Jude was seriously ill as a young pup so has stayed too.

The 2 girls are very sure of themselves and extremely confident. Jude is very people orientated she just adores people this is because she was in the vets on a drip for a week. But Simba is the more timid one of the group he relies very much on his sisters if they do it and its safe then its ok he'll do it too.

The thing that makes it easier with my 3 is that I have had them since they were born and so have a special bond with them they are always looking for me. At a show last week we allowed Amber and Simba to free run with another pup about the same age and even then they kept coming back to me to see if it was ok for them to run with the other pup.

Saying this I don't think I would like to buy two litter mates although I do have 2 pups coming soon they are from different people and Holly is a lot older than Splodge Head.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2008)

Hi,
Welcome to the forum 
I think you need to think seriously about it,I am not that familar with the breed but am aware they are not an easy breed.
They will need seperate training etc,it's hard training one puppy never mind two,yes they will keep each company but it will also be double the amount work,training,walking etc.
Bearing in mind you have to take them out every half hour or so toilet training,feeding four times a day,playtime,training time etc....
You will have more expense with vets fee's,food,training classes which are not cheap and so on.
Can you seperate them for a month when the bitch comes into her first season,as a male is more than capable of siring a litter from 6 months old onwards.

As a Breeder myself there is not a chance I would home two pups from the same litter to one person or family.

This is a good article to read,
Rearing Siblings

Stan Rawlinson (Doglistener) is a Dog Behaviourist and Obedience Trainer who has owned and worked dogs for over 25 years, starting with Gundogs then moving on to the behavioural and obedience side of Companion Dogs. He now has a successful practice covering London , Surrey and Middlesex you can visit his Web Site at Stan Rawlinson (Doglistener) Dog Behaviourist/Trainer Dog Training or E-mail him on [email protected]

Buying Two Puppies

The incidence of owners purchasing "Siblings", either same sex or brother and sister from the same litter or two puppies from different litters and breeds but of similar ages, is now more prevalent than at any other time in living memory. The old dogmen and owners knew the pitfalls and problems that this action would create. However this knowledge now appears to have been lost on todays dog owners

On the surface the idea appears to be highly commendable. With the busy lifestyles we now lead, it would seem feasible to take on two pups. They can stimulate each other and keep themselves company, hopefully alleviating any separation anxiety. They can also imitate the good characteristics of each other. They will be able to do everything together and therefore will benefit from that closeness and companionship, and could glean untold pleasure from each others company.

Sounds fantastic, unfortunately the reality is far from this ideal, you really get the worst of both worlds in this scenario. The puppies come to rely on each other and it weakens both of them, often to the extent that they become withdrawn from everything other than themselves. I call it Littermate Syndrome.

Often one of the dogs will appear bold and the other one timid. In reality the bold one is normally withdrawn and timid when his littermate is not there, it is a false boldness and he has in reality been emboldened by the others weakness.

They often bark and yap at other dogs, and may either pretend to attack or actually attack, to chase the other dogs away, this is generally fear based. They are so engrossed with each other that all other dogs are seen as a threat to their mutual alliance.

The puppies can come to fear dogs, people and any situation where they are separated from each other. The stress this causes can often then spill over into aggression against each other culminating in fighting, in some cases causing serious injury or even death, commonly known as Sibling Rivalry Strangely enough the worst fights are normally between bitches.

Although nothing is set in stone, generally bringing together dogs with too many similar qualities, ie age, size, sex, temperament and breed, may spark a conflict. So many related characteristics make it difficult for them to decide who is the alpha or top dog; therefore fights occur because of the similarities.

Often, we can inadvertently cause the conflict; owners can disturb the hierarchical balance by rushing to protect the would-be subordinate from being bullied or picked on granting him/her liberties, such as being petted first, which the other dog may consider his due. The lower dog may now feel emboldened enough to challenge the other. We need to understand that dogs have their own set of social rules, whereas we humans just want democracy,

Fighting: 
If you need to break up a fight, squirt the dogs with water or make a loud noise to distract them. Never attempt to break up a dog fight by grabbing the dogs by their collar or getting in between them. Grabbing dogs whilst they are fighting can result in what is called "redirected aggression," where a dog bites you because he thinks you are part of the conflict.

Sometimes the problem can be resolved if, instead of protecting the underdog the owner supports the hierarchy ie the top dog. Firstly determine who is the more dominant, reinforce that position by feeding, greeting, playing or letting the top dog out first. Usually this will help, but not always. The problem with that approach is that its often difficult to tell who should be the alpha dog, it is also difficult for owners to play favourites with their dogs.

Two Choices:
To my mind you have two choices with siblings from the same litter or two young pups from different breeds, Whilst I believe the first solution is the most practicable, which is to re-home one of them, I am also aware it is the hardest and most difficult for the owners. If not they will always be damaged by their almost total reliance on each other.

If you decide to choose this alternative, you can home one of the dogs with another family member or a trusted friend. You will see dramatic improvements to the personalities of both pups. These changes occur almost immediately. Be aware that the longer you delay the harder it will be to part with one of your pups. It is a difficult and agonising decision for someone to make, however in the long run it is in yours and ultimately both your dogs best interest.

Your second choice is to create two individual dogs, with two separate identities and personalities, without the total reliance on each other that normally happens in these situations. To do this you will need to work twice as hard because all the things you did together you will now need to do totally apart.

Things you must do:
Everything must now be done independently to allow for the Siblings to have any chance of becoming separate entities instead of the reduced sum of the whole.

Walk them separately 
Feed them separately 
Train them separately 
Crate them separately 
Play with them separately 
Literally everything you do should be separate. That includes Puppy and Training classes, take them to a trainer that understands the inherent difficulties of raising two puppies together. Take them on separate nights hopefully to the same trainer. They can play together but only at strict designated times and for a period of no more than 15 minutes each designated play time.

This regime will not be for life as the pups will, after a period of about 12 to 14 months have formed their own personalities and temperaments; at this age they will have become confident of their own individual abilities. Not as in most cases total inter-dependence to each other when siblings are raised, trained, and fed together.

Without the total reliance on their sibling for constant support they will grow and blossom into much rounder and less aggressive and fearful individuals. I cannot stress how important it is to separate the siblings until they are older. It will produce two individuals rather than an impaired two parts of the whole.

It is worth stating that it is not only siblings that have these problems. If you raise two young pups from different litters or even breeds, you can have similar problems. I always recommend my clients to wait till their puppy is 14 months old before purchasing another puppy this then allows you to concentrate all your efforts on that individual and hopefully it will take on some of the good traits of the older more experienced dog.

I think what truly annoys me are the breeders that sell siblings, and in some cases actually use emotional blackmail to push two pups, For instance " what a shame you can't take two as I may have problems as he's so small/white/little/runt etc and I'll probably have to have him put down in the end". I have no respect for a breeder that uses these tactics or that sell littermates to one owner. If they are experienced and not a first time breeder then they are well aware of the pitfalls of these actions, and that the dogs will suffer for the rest of their lives.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Jeani, i really hope u will be able to get the pulling sorted as i know how frustrating that is. I wish u all the best regarding the pulling 
It took us alot of work and strenght but it was worth it.
U should find something what suits u and stick to it or else the dogs will get confused. We use normal lenght lead and half checks 
The main problem was that even if one of us was only 2 steps in front the other dog pulled to get in front. 
So what we did was one uf us sat with one dog on a bench and the other walked with the other dog away and back by heel checking evry pull.
They learnt to see that no harm is done when the other one is walking away and wouldnt bother with it anymore.
It took along time and alot of energy and often i had a sore shoulder from pulling lol  But it worked :thumbup1:


Regarding the getting 2 pups same time. I believe it all depends on how much commitment ur willing to put in and thats alot of commitment! Most of the day commitment as u really need to keep an constant eye on them. Together they will always find something mischievious to do 
I disagree with the dogs having to be fed seperate (never done this and has never caused any problems) and going to different training classes. 
We go to the same classes and it also causes no problem, BUT each dog needs his own handler (me usually Maya oh usually cobi, but sometimes we swap lol) it even helped us having the control over 2 dogs at the same time in real life situations!
And we all know that my breeds arent the easiest ones lol
My dogs are bonded more with me (yes me, not oh haha) than each other, but of course they love each other too  

I never once regretet getting them 2 and i would definitly regret getting only 1. 

In ur situation i honestly think it would be a bit harder as u have ur children to look after and gsd are a demanding breed which need alot mental stimulations and they do need a strong leader or else they do with u what they like  And as they grow into big dogs this would be also a point to consider


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2008)

I personaly wouldnt get two together for all the reasons people have said such as training, and bonding. Plus, i had three standard poodles who were 6 months apart in age from eachother, one died may 07 the other died fed 08 and the last one died june 08. loosing them so close together has been a big shock, i would have at least a year or so between any dog now to avoid the same heartbreak, i know you cannot predict when they are going to die but having them so close together and then die so close together hasnt been nice and is something i wish to aviod.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

i would wait for 18 months. if the first is well trained it will make training the second a lot easier.


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## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

I personally would advise against it, although a friend of mine has had 2 litter brothers Golden Retrievers and they have done a fantastic job with them, but then again they both work from home and have no children to look after either.

I got my 2 dogs 18 months apart and thought this would be long enough on training grounds etc, only to find that my second pup has progressed much quicker than my first. I am now at a bottle neck with them both being in their KC good citizens gold award, so they aren't getting as much training as usual because I am having to alternate dog classes.

Don't get me wrong, I love, love, love having more than one dog, they are best of friends but are more bonded with me than each other, I would just maybe go for a longer age gap than even I went with.


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## Amyk (Dec 23, 2008)

jeani have you tried aa lead where the dogs are attached to eachother by the lead so that mean you are only controling 1 dog because the lead you are holding is attached to 1 dogs collar and that dog then controls the other.
pick the dog who is most dominant and have that dog on the inside, if you can get control over the dominant one the they lower ranking one will rarely go infront then fingure crossed it will stop them pulling. where abouts do you live because im a dog walker in the waltham Forest area and would be happy to help you out.


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## goldendance (Jan 23, 2009)

hi im new
just in the middle of building my web page and was looking how to spell sibling rivalry? came accross this site by chance,
i bought 2 golden retriever girls[from working parents] from the same litter 2 1/2 years ago, im so glad i did as they are wonderfull,
the breeder was happy to get my money i think?
i didnt know anything about sibling rival[sorry i cant spell it yet]
but in my dogs their bond to each other was strong that they didnt take much notice of us 
they used to be sleeping together in their create, so we bought another create [as i strongly believe in create training your puppy] to split them up 
one of the puppys at 8mths old went back to the breeder for a month [i cried all month]on her return the pup that stayed at home now was the domanant dog and the pup that was away became the under dog,
it took alot of hard training to put the girls right and we do keep it up
if you have got the time and effort to have the 2 pups together then go for it ,but i wouldnt sell my pups together or reccomend it to anyone,
hope this helps:crying:


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> the breeder was happy to get my money i think?


Any breeder who allows two puppies to go together is not interested in the welfare of their puppies, only selling them, and does not indicate a reputable breeder, so personally I would steer clear.


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## pugsley Adams (Dec 30, 2008)

Dundee said:


> Any breeder who allows two puppies to go together is not interested in the welfare of their puppies, only selling them, and does not indicate a reputable breeder, so personally I would steer clear.


That is good to know!


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## Pets Paws (Dec 6, 2008)

In a word YES!

I had planned to take Leigha from a farm when she was born, when we went to see her her brother was still there he was going to be knocked on the head so we decided to take him too "Ffione" they are border collies, yes it was hard work and Leigha bullied Ffione for a while but they just loved each other they had complete different personality's Leigha being the one to get in trouble and not good on the lead, were Ffione was a model pupal he would almost trip you up while walking to heel. Good luck! with whatever you decide, but I had no regrests


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

iknow many people that have a sister/brother pair. all the ones i know have had either one or the other or both does "Done" so no accential pups appear. 

it will be slightly harder training two pups at once but so much reward will come out of it. I would say if you feel you can do both pups together then get them both.

Good luck 
x


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## goldendance (Jan 23, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Any breeder who allows two puppies to go together is not interested in the welfare of their puppies, only selling them, and does not indicate a reputable breeder, so personally I would steer clear.


i know this now as i was once friends with this breeder after i bought the pups,
i got to know all of her money making relating to dogs so now i have no contact with her at all 
thats why i decided to break contact:devil:


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

NO NO!!!!!!!!!!! wait at least 18-24 mths


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2009)

It is very difficult to train two pups of the same age at once - unless you are able to spent almost every minute of the day with them - I would take just one - then look again when you have mastered the first one - unless you are like Janices fellow that is


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

I am on the fence on this one The bonding / training issue should not be a problem if you have the time and patience. Now saying that I would not sell 2 pups from the same litter to someone unless I really knew that person.
On another note I would not advice anyone to buy siblings as if there is a health issue then it is double trouble really.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Jenny Olley said:


> As a dog trainer my advice would be never, I see lots of couples with pairs of pups coming to class, most of them regret it. Get the pup you've chosen now, form a relationship and train him, then think about another one.


great advice


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## jasps (Dec 16, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> It is very difficult to train two pups of the same age at once - unless you are able to spent almost every minute of the day with them - I would take just one - then look again when you have mastered the first one - unless you are like Janices fellow that is


Yes it is difficult, however, you will find that once one pup masters something the other will quickly follow. We had two pups from the same litter last time (we had to beg the breeder and she only let us have them once we convinced her we would be good owners, she came and visited us). The lady at the dog obedience classes said we would never do it, she wasn't being nasty, just not convinced we would manage. However, we did manage, very successfully, our two were very well behaved and very obedient. It does take a lot of patience. My wife didn't work at the time so she could spend a lot of time with them.

We are going to get another dog, however, Fergus is only 14 weeks old. We will wait until this time next year before thinking about it seriously. We did try to get two from the same litter this time, but we just missed the other pup by a day.

Adam


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## jasps (Dec 16, 2008)

Dundee said:


> Any breeder who allows two puppies to go together is not interested in the welfare of their puppies, only selling them, and does not indicate a reputable breeder, so personally I would steer clear.


Hmmm, I am sure that is true in some cases but not all. I had two puppies from the same littler nearly 15 years ago and we still keep in touch with the breeder, even though both our dogs have passed away. She is the most dedicated doggy person I know. She was always very helpful and even had our dogs to stay a few times when we went on holiday.

I think you have to judge it on an individual basis. This time around, mainly because of what I have read on here, I questioned the breeder a lot more. Although, when I visited her house any concerns quickly vanished.

Adam


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I think it depends on the breed of dog. Whippets tend to be better in pairs. When we had just one he howled when we went out and wouldn't play he just slept. When w had another one he started to play and stopped howling he was basically a much happier dog. Saying that I would never buy 2 from the same litter.

I have run on 2 litter mates. At the moment I have 3 litter mates 9 months little Holly who is 5 months and Archie will be arriving soon aged about 10 weeks. Oh my god just realised I will have 5 under 1 year old AAAGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH


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## amlawren (Feb 25, 2010)

We bought two English Springer Spaniels of the same age (a week or so apart) but from different litters. One male and one female.

We had never heard of any bonding/training issues at the time , and I have to say we never experienced any problems what-so-ever.

Both dogs were toilet trained quickly, and would sit, paw, down etc very easily. There was never any fighting - every morning they would have a mad 30 minutes... sliding all over the kitchen floor playing with each other... but I never saw them ever act viciously toward each other once. 

The only thing I would say is that the female was determined to win all of the time - with our affection, bones, toys etc. This though, I put down to her being a female  and it didn;t seem to dishearten the male.

They were very affectionate with each other, and very affectionate with us. I would say that we (humans) came first to them at all times.

Unfortunately the female died aged 8 of cancer, and we still have male now aged 12. He has come out of himself slightly more now, as he is probably far more spoilt being on his own, however I wouldn't change a thing. 

I always tell myself that if I ever buy another dog I would always get 2 for companionship. After reading the forum I will look into it slightly further, but atm my thoughts remain that 2 is better than 1


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I prefer to have 2 our first springers were brothers 1 litter apart from the same parents there were 18 months in their age, unfortunatly when the eldest died at 8 harvey his brother didnt do well at all and after a lot of advice from breeders and vets it was clear he needed a mate, more than one of the breeders did say that springers do live happily alone but do, do better with a mate, he is fine now we have molly she is 18 months now and yes she is the boss, but we have found that the males prefer this are you thinking of getting another springer?


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## amlawren (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks for the reply! :thumbsup:

Well they were family dogs, and Jack now lives with my parents out in Spain. He is 13 now, so I don't think they will get a mate for him. I think he quite likes being centre of attention anyway! 

My boyfriend and I are thinking of getting cocker spaniels, and were going to get a male and a female, but I will look into it and see if 1 on their own would be better.

The only thing I would worry about is trying to keep them separate before they get "done" - as we did have that problem with the springers. :devil:


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Any breeder who allows two puppies to go together is not interested in the welfare of their puppies, only selling them, and does not indicate a reputable breeder, so personally I would steer clear.


What a load of codswallop !!

Two of my babies went to the same new home after some serious debating. The female is being neutered and the little boy attends the same ringcraft class as us. The new owners only live a few short miles away and are in constant contact with us.

I will say however, that if the new owners lived further away then this definately wouldn't have happened


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