# Dog - fear aggression



## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Hello. I posted a desperate question when my dog bit someone about a year ago, and received some very helpful advice from forum members. However, here I am back again about my dog's continuing aggression towards other people, so am hoping that you can help me to decide at which point we give up and make the awful choice to have our dog put to sleep:shocked:

We have a rescue standard dachshund who has now bitten several people. The first was the worst causing the young woman to have a stitch in her ankle, but even though the other bites were on people's clothes they were deliberate and frightening. We've worked extensively with a good dog behaviourist who specialises in aggressive dogs and he identified that Walter has fear aggression where he can't stand to be in the company of people for long, especially in places where he usually feels safe: at home, in the car, in the garden, around us when we walk him etc. He reacts badly to anyone who approaches him or enters his orbit. Even our friends and neighbours, whose sounds he recognises and who have tried their best to befriend him, are seen as a threat. The only neighbour he has ever liked was a woman who was a heavy drinker and used a very strict tone of voice with him along with her cuddles! 

Walter was doing very well with his training until six months ago when we moved house (but are still in the same area for his walks). He was so shaken up by the move that he seemed to forget all of his training and we were back to square one. Since then we've had the dog behaviourist back several times, and followed his advice to the letter - using dog snacks to help him pass people on walks (it works so long as they don't stop to try to pet him), using a strict reward system for good behaviour, feeding Walt a low protein diet, using a lead and muzzle and safe place for him in the house when people visit. However, nothing seems to be working long term. He has been thoroughly checked by the vet who says he is in good health with no injuries. 

We have now reached a stage where all of our new neighbours are scared of him and we have no visitors at all, and we are constantly explaining and making excuses for Walter's aggressive behaviour. That only lasts for so long until people start to get impatient. Yesterday, a neighbour's two year old accidently strayed into our garden while Walt and I were sitting outside. I had Walter on his lead, and thank goodness, as he launched himself in the child's direction snarling and barking. Today the child's grandma came to see me to say that she isn't happy about it, as the child was terrified and couldn't sleep last night, and that if Walter is aggressive towards her family again she will have to report it.

Our neighbours are actually all very nice, and the grandma was so sorry about having to tell me, but I can understand why they are worried. Walter may be a small dog, but he can be very ferocious. We've tried so hard to try to reassure Walter and change his behaviour, and we do keep him under control. But our lives have become really restricted, and it is worrying knowing that other people are scared of him. We don't want to give up on him, but are very concerned that it is only a matter of time before he bites someone really badly. 

Walt is a loving and playful dog with us, and he now wags his tail if he hears our neighbours and friends outside the house (so long as they don't come anywhere near). He calms down barking at strangers from inside the house if we put his lead on. Now that we've put our post box outside the gate he no longer barks at the postman when he sees him. But that's it!

Please can someone give us some idea of what would be the final sign that would tell us that Walter isn't going to change and we will have to have him put to sleep. I can't bear the thought of it, but we won't be able to take him to a rescue centre for rehoming if living in our quiet, loving home with our total dedication isn't helping him. Please can you help? Thank you.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Firstly I would remind this grandmother that her grandchild strayed into YOUR garden - you can't be held responsible for that!

You're in a very difficult situation and I really feel for you. When you say the vet has checked your dog, has he done a full blood panel etc, testing for thyroid issues and so on?

If not, I would get this done before making any decisions at all.

What does the behaviourist say? It sounds as though your boy was making improvements and then the move set him back a bit, but that can't be helped and towards the end of your post it sounds as though you are pretty much on top of things...?

What do you do with Walter if someone does come over - does he have a crate or a safe space where he can go to? If yes, then I don't see why you can't have visitors, as long as your dog is not allowed to come near and is perhaps muzzled?

I'm sure others will be along to answer soon but PLEASE remember that the child strayed into *your* garden - personally I think the grandmother had a bit of a cheek having a go at you over that!!!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

When the vet did a check was it just a physical check, because often unless there is anything glaringly obvious like a pain response on orthopeadic exam or anything else that may show a physical change then you cant tell just by looking.

There are conditions that will cause fearful/aggressive behaviour even things like liver function but unless blood tests are taken then yo often dont known until the liver is pretty bad and physical problems appear.

Another common problem in dogs which Ive just checked too if its known in Daxies and there does seem to be a high incidence in the breed is hypo Thyroid they dont produce enough thyroid hormones so they have to take replacement tablets. It may be a last ditch attempt but if its between that and PTS then it may be worth doing. Details on HT below both breed specific and how it can affect behaviour.

Thyroid

Although the daxie article says about weight gain etc, it doesnt always follow in all dogs, it can manifest in all different signs including behavioural.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/bizarre_behavior.htm

Are your dogs seizures caused by Canine Epilepsy or Autoimmune Thyroiditis?

Clinical Signs of Canine Hypothyroidism

Have you ever tried natural calmatives on him too see if that makes a difference especially as the behaviourist has confirmed that its fear aggression? There are several zylkene is one thats had good effects.

Zylkene - Overview

Sometimes dogs become so stressed and fearful that even with behavior modification they cant respond to it, by giving a natural calmative it can make the more receptive to training as well as calmer and not so nervous over all.

Have you ever explored the possibility too, of trying to habituate and train him to a muzzle, the baskerville or basket type ones are OK because it still allows them to pant and cool down, but you will have no fears that he can bite. He will have to be habituated and traine to one first, its not the best solution granted but it beats the hell out of the alternative of being put too sleep, if he is fine apart from not being able to be trusted with strangers and when out.

What may give you some support too and be useful, is DINOS, dogs in need of space. The Link is below.

Dogs In Need Of Space


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

It may not be an offence at the moment but it soon will be https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dangerous-dogs-law-changes-cover-attacks-on-private-property

As you know your dog will bite and cause injury you need to muzzle him when out in public and also your front garden, certain people have legal right of entry to your front door. At 2 years old the child would not know he/she was in the wrong.
If he is muzzled it also may make you relax and make training easier, for indoors get a crate or a dog gate so people can come in whithout fear of attack.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

It sounds like you are doing all the right things but he's a very sensitive boy who has been badly shaken up by the move and is taking a long time to recover his balance. 

About the latest incident - you had Walter under control out in his own garden and the whole thing was caused by the child's parents/grandparents neglect of the 2 yr old letting him stray and putting him at serious risk - iluckily t was your garden he ended up in but could easily have been under the wheels of a car or sadly abducted. 

The child's grandma is upset because her straying grandson caused a nervous and easily upset dog to bark and lunge (although nothing happened because the nervous and easily upset dog has extremely good owners who are on the ball unlike the idiots who let a 2 yr old wander off into other people's gardens)? Well tough - it's not your fault, it's not Walter's fault he was scared by an unpredictable small thing coming into his space. I would suggest to the grandma that the whole thing is easily avoided if the child's parents/grandparents (whoever is meant to be watching him) keep their child under control and although you recognise that anyone can make a mistake and won't report them for neglect this time, if they make a habit of it you will have to inform social services that they are putting a child at risk.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Dogs are supposed to be a pleasure, not hold you hostage.

To be honest it sounds as though this dog is miserable, is very stressed and so are you.

I would have a dog like this PTS as he cannot be happy and neither are you.

Not all dogs can be cured and not all can be managed successfully.

You cannot move him on due to his history, in fact I am amazed he is still alive.

Have your dog PTS and go and get yourself a dog that you CAN enjoy.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> Dogs are supposed to be a pleasure, not hold you hostage.
> 
> To be honest it sounds as though this dog is miserable, is very stressed and so are you.
> 
> ...


The owner clearly loves the dog very much indeed. Without knowing if the vet has done a full health check including blood tests etc, personally I wouldn't want to advise anyone to have their beloved dog PTS.


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## The Fervid Pig (Apr 8, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> Dogs are supposed to be a pleasure, not hold you hostage.
> 
> To be honest it sounds as though this dog is miserable, is very stressed and so are you.
> 
> ...


Seems rather harsh, the OP said Walter is loving and playful. He may be stressed and anxious but these are issues that appear to be being worked on, and before a recent move was making improvement.


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Thank you all very much for your comments. I appreciate the different viewpoints and will certainly follow up on the thyroid test and Dinos website. The vet did a through physical exam and an X-ray, after I had been taking Walter to the Vet's and putting his muzzle on for several weeks beforehand to get him used to going there. Then he behaved as good as gold while the vet examined him. However, the vet didn't take any blood samples. 

I am interested in the Dinos idea, but it is hard to put into practice. The dog behavourist did say to treat Walter as a dog who needs his own space, and to ask other people to do the same and just ignor him and he will gradually get used to them. He described his character as being a loner who just wants to sit and observe instead of being at the centre of all the action. Except with the DB Walt is the most perfectly friendly dog who sticks to his ankle and does everything he says! As Walter is quite a cute-looking, small dog most people instantly want to pet him, even when I warn them not to. Some just won't give up - we even have two 'dog stalkers' who have made it their mission to befriend Walt whenever they see him! 

I can see what you mean that such a young child shouldn't have been left unattended to wander into our garden, and I really appreciate the compliment that I am a good dog owner to have prepared ahead and not allowed anything untoward to happen. 

Walter has progressed quite far in other ways - he isn't bothered about walking on his lead amongst crowds of people, and deals with other dogs very coolly, neither of which he could do when we first got him. It's just this serious problem with other people. I feel such a failure with it, and I suppose I keep hoping that we will somehow hit on a miracle solution that will help Walter overcome his fears and become the friendly dog that everyone wants to know. I really don't want to have him PTS, but it is very worrying. 

Thanks again for taking the time to listen and advise.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I recall your other posts and am sorry you're back again under such circumstances. It sounds as if your management is spot on. I too have a sensitive dog who needs to be managed carefully - lone people suddenly appearing in quiet places is his 'trigger'. He also dislikes people suddenly making a beeline to fuss him and will duck away.

I can't add to the advice you have already been given and as you are working with a behaviourist I'm sure they're your first port of call but didn't want to ignore you.

Has your behaviourist given any advice about calmatives? I use Nupafeed Stress - Less with Kilo. Has a subtle but definite effect on his general stress levels.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2013)

Sorry, I may have missed it, but is there a reason why your dog can't simply go to another room in the house when you have visitors?
Instead of keeping him on lead and muzzled every time someone comes over, why not just separate him physically from the people he doesn't want to be around anyway, give him a special stuffed kong or marrow bone that he only gets when visitors come, and leave him be?

I know it's not really addressing the behavior, but in the short term, it does give everyone breathing room and may change his attitude towards people coming over.

As for the incident in the garden, is your garden fenced? Is there a way you can fence your garden so that others can't get in? 

Dogs like this need "safe" spots. Places they can retreat to where they know they will not have to deal with people or whatever they feel apprehensive about. 

I don't think anyone can decide for you what you need to do in the end. 
I can certainly understand you considering euthanasia. 
If you want to keep working on it, there are other options, you could seek another opinion from another behaviorist, you could do futher medical testing. The fact that he has improved in some areas is promising, the fact that he has such poor bite inhibition is not...

It may be helpful just for you to put a plan in place. Decide what you're willing to try, how much you can realistically spend, and what kind of time frame you are willing to give it. 

HTH...


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

jazzactivist said:


> Thank you all very much for your comments. I appreciate the different viewpoints and will certainly follow up on the thyroid test and Dinos website. The vet did a through physical exam and an X-ray, after I had been taking Walter to the Vet's and putting his muzzle on for several weeks beforehand to get him used to going there. Then he behaved as good as gold while the vet examined him. However, the vet didn't take any blood samples.
> 
> I am interested in the Dinos idea, but it is hard to put into practice. The dog behavourist did say to treat Walter as a dog who needs his own space, and to ask other people to do the same and just ignor him and he will gradually get used to them. He described his character as being a loner who just wants to sit and observe instead of being at the centre of all the action. Except with the DB Walt is the most perfectly friendly dog who sticks to his ankle and does everything he says! As Walter is quite a cute-looking, small dog most people instantly want to pet him, even when I warn them not to. Some just won't give up - we even have two 'dog stalkers' who have made it their mission to befriend Walt whenever they see him!
> 
> ...


I don't think you are a 'failure' - far from it!

A lot of people would have given up on Walter a long time ago. You, however, are a caring, loyal and responsible owner who is moving heaven and earth to try and help your dog 

Please don't be so hard on yourself  From what you say, Walter has made huge improvements and that's down to you and your patience 

It can be exhausting and very stressful to have a dog with these problems, be kind to yourself 

Please do keep us updated?


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

no way are you a failure

i too have an extreme fear aggressive dog, who will launch himself to bite people outside and any visitors he doesn't know that come into the house, he is also fear territorial in the garden
i have been down the same despair as you and i also have thought of having my dog put to sleep
i've had bloods done and a behaviourist, bloods came back negative and the behaviourist didn't make much difference 

i think to be honest that dogs like this will never be cured but they can be managed

when out blitz always wears a muzzle even in the back garden when we have visitors, again a muzzle and lead, he starts off behind a stairgate so that he can see who has come in the house

i must admitt sometimes when i go to bed i have thoughts such as what if he should escape from the house without his muzzle cos i know he would probably attack directly outside the house and i know i live with the risks but i do everything i can to protect people and blitz

what keeps him alive is the fact that inside the house with family and friends that he knows he is the most soppiest loving dog going

obviously the choice is yours on what to do but consider everyting first, i used to think i was the only one with a dog like this but i do beleive that the problem is alot more common


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Thank you Dogless. I am interested in what you say about your own dog, and the Nupafeed. Walter seems to have rallied and is progressing a bit again - he even sat for No 1 'dog stalker' to give him a biscuit the other day, which is progress indeed as he usually hides and barks at her! The DB has suggested keeping a diary of Walter's behaviour, as it does seem that it might be cyclical. I'm not saying that it is due to the full moon or anything like that, but he seems to be fine for a few days and progressing well, then gets steadily more grumpy and possessive over a few days until we have an incident where he reacts really badly to someone. Then the next day he perks up a lot and deals much better with people in his orbit. Today he has gone out walking with my partner and his friend, whom Walter knows quite well, so we'll have to see if he will let him into the house afterwards! Thanks again to everyone who provided advice, and I am now in touch with the DINOS group who are also extremely helpful. Walt is now featured on their website.


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Whoops, didn't spot the other comments from blitzens mum, OBAYL, and oesi. Thank you for your comments too. I feel so much better about Walter just from reading what you all say.

Our house is a basic 2 bed terrace, with back door access through the kitchen and dining room and access to upstairs through the sitting room. The bathroom is upstairs. So it is quite tricky putting Walter in another room while guests are here, especially if they want to use the loo! We've tried putting Walter in our bedroom with a stuffed Kong, but he ignors it and just howls, growls and barks constantly if he can hear anyone else in the house. He is quieter if he is nearby and can see what's going on, but the guest has to sit very still :crazy:

Our garden is also a bit of a strange arrangement. Access to all gardens is through one another, and ours is second last. So we can't completely fence it in. We do have a gate on either side of the access route, but the garden isn't big enough to create a fenced walkway, so no way of fencing Walter in and others out. We always keep him on a lead outside, even when playing 'find the ball' with him in the garden, and he seems to feel more secure when he is on his lead attached to one of us and it doesn't seem to stop him running around. We have a long training lead from the dog behaviourist, but he doesn't walk away from us when he is on it. Probably just as well! 

Walter has a basket-type muzzle that we have used, but he tries to get it off after a few minutes. He did keep it on during the vet examination though. Yesterday I gave him a bath for the first time, and trimmed his claws - something he has never let me do before, so perhaps he is still steadily improving despite the hiccup with the toddler...


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Has your behaviourist talked about medication at all? I know a lot of people are against "drugging" the dog but sometimes a course of meds to help the dog relax can be a huge, huge help and get the dog to a point where it is able to learn new coping strategies rather than just react to what's going on. There are also over the counter things that can help but if not it may be worth asking about meds. I wish I could have gotten my highly anxious dog on some sort of medication to see whether it would help but my vet was not willing to prescribe anything and the over the counter ones I tried had no effect.

One thing I will say is that you may need to learn to be fairly rude to people in order to stop them invading Walters space. I have had to physically block people before now because they often will not take no for an answer, not even when the dog is all bared teeth and growls  I imagine that is even more of an issue with a small dog.

Please don't feel a failure, you're doing everything you can to help your dog.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

jazzactivist said:


> Thank you Dogless. I am interested in what you say about your own dog, and the Nupafeed. Walter seems to have rallied and is progressing a bit again - he even sat for No 1 'dog stalker' to give him a biscuit the other day, which is progress indeed as he usually hides and barks at her! The DB has suggested keeping a diary of Walter's behaviour, as it does seem that it might be cyclical. I'm not saying that it is due to the full moon or anything like that, but he seems to be fine for a few days and progressing well, then gets steadily more grumpy and possessive over a few days until we have an incident where he reacts really badly to someone. Then the next day he perks up a lot and deals much better with people in his orbit. Today he has gone out walking with my partner and his friend, whom Walter knows quite well, so we'll have to see if he will let him into the house afterwards! Thanks again to everyone who provided advice, and I am now in touch with the DINOS group who are also extremely helpful. Walt is now featured on their website.


With fear aggressive dogs, stress and when they go over the threshold of what they can cope with usually plays a part in how reactive they are. Which may explain why he has good days and bad days.

If you think of a scale of 0 to 10 and 6 being the level he reacts at. Kept below his trigger level he is likely much better and doesnt react as he is at a level he can cope with and it doesnt send him over the top and react. As an example something may have happened that increases his levels up to a 2 before he goes out that day or at the start of the walk. Once the stress starts it then can build as they encounter more things that may add to it, so if he starts off the walk at a level 2, then he hasnt got so far before he gets to 6 and a reactive level. Where as if he goes out de stressed and at a level 0, then he can cope with more stress before he gets to the trigger level. If there is nothing in particular on those days too that particularly worries or freaks him out, then he wont likely get to that reactive level at all, so those days he is a lot better and calmer and non reactive. That could be why the Behaviourist has asked you to keep a diary.

Sometimes if you can identify the triggers and avoid and manage them then you can sometimes keep them at below the level of stress so that they can cope with it and dont take them over the threshold so in turn they shouldnt react or if they do its minimal only.

Knowing what makes them trigger too can help as then you can work on desensitising them to those triggers, by introdcing them one at a time slowly to try to overcome the reaction or if they do react at least its minimal and not so severe.

Ive got one who was afraid of anything and everything when younger, but by going back to basics and not giving him more then he could cope with at one time and building things up slowly he eventually over come most things, apart from very occasionally and even then now the reaction is minimal. My one never and still doesnt react immediately at the time and shows fear when he encounters something as you would expect. It can be later and suddenly when the things even gone away or he encounters just one more thing that on its own he may not usually react too but as something has already sent his stress levels up its another thing that is just one more thing too much on that particular day. It could be possible as your one seems to be intermittent and its not always a constant reaction his could be something similar perhaps.


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## Strawberryearth (Apr 5, 2012)

Goodness, it sounds like you have been on an emotional roller coaster with Walt. 

You have been given some excellent advice and support from other members, most of it a lot more thorough than I would have been capable of. I am posting mainly to offer support. 

I have a similarly reactive Dachshund- Betty. A lot of the things you describe ring true with her, likewise a lot of what you have done and the progress you have made. 

I feel we share similarities in 2 ways- people attempting to approach her in public and having visitors in the house. If they are people Betty knows, she is fine- a ball of loving and excitable energy. However, if they are strangers it is a different matter. 

Betty has never bitten anyone, but she has lunged at people she "didn't like the look of". And the description of the child wandering into your garden and Walt lunging towards makes me think that Betty would certainly react in the same way- I just don't know if she would bite or just bark and retreat. 

With people "dog stalking" as you say (we have some of those as well) I just tell them straight- she isn't friendly. Betty usually backs me up by giving them a few barks from behind my legs, helpfully illustrating my point. I used to mind coming off a bit mean but I would rather be known as "that b*tch with the barky dog" than "that woman with the dangerous dog". That isn't to say I am mean when I tell people, but I am firm and clear. I love Betty far too much to allow her to react in a way that could end very badly for her. 

With people coming into the house things differ slightly. We have very few visitors, so until one arrives it never really causes us a problem. She gives a few barks at the postman or some canvasser knocking on the door (helpful in its own way) but I have a door separating my front door from the rest of my house, so I know that they and Betty are safe. When we do have visitors I cannot put her away, as many people (rightly) suggest. It just isn't feasible for her- she knows there is something going on and will continue to bark and scramble at the door, regardless of what we give her as a distraction. 

Generally we keep her on a lead when we have guests, if she barks at them we leave the room immediately, wait a few seconds and then go back in. Any time she barks we immediately leave the room- not great for conversation but neither is attempting to chat with a dog barking! She soon settles down and I throw her the odd treat. I ask all guests to ignore her, some of them don't and I have to point out that staring at her isn't ignoring her and actually she finds it quite threatening. If my guests cannot ignore her like I ask they generally don't get an invite back! I know that is harsh but I liken it to asking people not to put their feet on the table- it is bad manners if someone does it anyway! 

It sounds like you have had a real run of things and the move has undone some of your hard work but often things that have previously been learned are not quite so easily forgotten. Once you get back on track he may well pick things up quicker the second time around. 

It doesn't sound like you want to PTS, or you wouldn't be posting and asking the question. 

(Oh, forgot to add that we do the snack thing when we pass stranger in the street too and now she hardly barks at anyone)

Good Luck and I wish you the best for the future.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

jazzactivist said:


> but he seems to be fine for a few days and progressing well, then gets steadily more grumpy and possessive over a few days until we have an incident where he reacts really badly to someone. Then the next day he perks up a lot and deals much better with people in his orbit.


As SDH said it can be a build up of stress. I know with Kilo that if he has had a full blown reaction to something that he will react on that walk to things that he hasn't bothered with for a long time as his stress levels are high. They then remain high for the next few days, so I have to manage him carefully to let them settle.

It can be like a glass of water - each little minor upset is a little drop into the glass until the glass becomes full and overflows.


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Thanks Sarah1983, strawberryearth, sled dog hotel and dogless. All brilliant and helpful advice; and just to know that there are other people dealing with the same sorts of dog behaviours, and even the same type of dog, successfully is a huge relief. 

Our vet wasn't keen to offer Walter medication, as he felt that a year wasn't a long enough length of time, given his past, to know if he really needs it. He suggested continuing with the dog behaviourist's methods and the low protein diet for six months longer to see how it goes, but Walter was exceptionally well behaved at the vet's. I have looked on the internet to see if there is a natural, herbal, anti-stress potion of some kind that Walt could try, but can't find anything available in the UK. A neighbour suggested a calming pheromone spray / diffuser called Adaptil, but it doesn't seem to have any effect on Walter and makes everything smell of fish afterwards! It would be useful to perhaps try something temporarily, just to get Walter to feel calmer with people who come into the house / garden and wait long enough to see if they are really a threat before reacting. 

Today Walter made a bit more progress with one friend with whom he and Andy had been out walking for most of the day. Walter loves those long walks and even lets the friend lift him over styles and hold his lead, and he sits next to him for the pub lunch, but when they come back into the house he usually growls and barks at him and tries to keep him cornered. Today, Walt did jump up and down a bit next to him, and the friend held his backpack in front of him just in case, but we put Walter's lead on again and he just sat quietly further away and watched us drinking tea. He whined after the friend left. So, with any luck, this could be the start him accepting more people. Thanks again, and take care everyone. I really don't want to put him to sleep if in any way possible.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

jazzactivist said:


> Thanks Sarah1983, strawberryearth, sled dog hotel and dogless. All brilliant and helpful advice; and just to know that there are other people dealing with the same sorts of dog behaviours, and even the same type of dog, successfully is a huge relief.
> 
> Our vet wasn't keen to offer Walter medication, as he felt that a year wasn't a long enough length of time, given his past, to know if he really needs it. He suggested continuing with the dog behaviourist's methods and the low protein diet for six months longer to see how it goes, but Walter was exceptionally well behaved at the vet's. *I have looked on the internet to see if there is a natural, herbal, anti-stress potion of some kind that Walt could try*, but can't find anything available in the UK. A neighbour suggested a calming pheromone spray / diffuser called Adaptil, but it doesn't seem to have any effect on Walter and makes everything smell of fish afterwards! It would be useful to perhaps try something temporarily, just to get Walter to feel calmer with people who come into the house / garden and wait long enough to see if they are really a threat before reacting.
> 
> Today Walter made a bit more progress with one friend with whom he and Andy had been out walking for most of the day. Walter loves those long walks and even lets the friend lift him over styles and hold his lead, and he sits next to him for the pub lunch, but when they come back into the house he usually growls and barks at him and tries to keep him cornered. Today, Walt did jump up and down a bit next to him, and the friend held his backpack in front of him just in case, but we put Walter's lead on again and he just sat quietly further away and watched us drinking tea. He whined after the friend left. So, with any luck, this could be the start him accepting more people. Thanks again, and take care everyone. I really don't want to put him to sleep if in any way possible.


Nupafeed Superior Supplements for Dogs


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> Nupafeed Superior Supplements for Dogs


thanks for the link, after reading it i might give it a go with blitzen


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> thanks for the link, after reading it i might give it a go with blitzen


It has been great for us. Takes a few weeks to take effect but does help. We had got to the stage where I just gave it before a stressful event but with summer here and school hols around the corner I'm giving it daily again!

I emailed Nupafeed with a few questions when I started to give it and you cannot overdose a dog with it - excess gets excreted - and you can give it for an indefinite period of time.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> It has been great for us. Takes a few weeks to take effect but does help. We had got to the stage where I just gave it before a stressful event but with summer here and school hols around the corner I'm giving it daily again!
> 
> I emailed Nupafeed with a few questions when I started to give it and you cannot overdose a dog with it - excess gets excreted - and you can give it for an indefinite period of time.


having positive feedback from you is what most of us with problem dogs are looking for, there is so many products on the market that claim to help and i have spent a fortune trying to help blitz but to no avail, i will give this one a go


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> having positive feedback from you is what most of us with problem dogs are looking for, there is so many products on the market that claim to help and i have spent a fortune trying to help blitz but to no avail, i will give this one a go


It's no miracle and works very subtly but allows Kilo to relax enough that he can be trained around what stresses him, recover more quickly from something that has upset him and just be less 'up on his toes' than usual.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> It's no miracle and works very subtly but allows Kilo to relax enough that he can be trained around what stresses him, recover more quickly from something that has upset him and just be less 'up on his toes' than usual.


lol i gave up on miracles a long long time ago, but if it will help him to relax and not be in such a constant high alert state it will be a start


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Have just ordered some. I like that fact that it is magnesium based to re-balance nervous dogs, and not a dope-like sedative. Will see how Walter gets on with it. 

By the way, there are some beautiful photos of lovely dogs on this forum. I'd have them all!


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## maggiesleap (Jun 11, 2013)

Hi All, not sure if this is the right thread I`m posting in.. (new member)

We have a year old lakeland terrier, male un-neutered, who has been getting progressively more aggressive over the last couple of months. It started with him getting territorial over his bed, he sleeps in the kitchen, to where, moreso at weekends when we are home all day, we can barely go near him. Its not just growling its full on snarling and snapping with teeth bared. The first time he done this my husband smacked him on the bum and he bit him hard peircing the skin, we put him outside where he growled and growled and stayed outside all night! The next morning he was fine and his usual playful self. He bit me a few days later when I was stroking him piercing skin etc... we took him to the vet as he had developed a limp and we thought that there was something wrong with him for his behaviour to change so dramatically but he couldnt find anything wrong with him and this seemed to be a one off (or 2!) , we put it down to maybe an upset stomach or something! 
Anyway it has got progressively worse with him snarling and almost lunging at us, not all the time though as in every other way he is a great wee dog, he loves his walks (4-6 miles a day) were he gets a good run off the lead. He is great with other dogs, very playful etc. Loves people coming into the house and isnt aggressive even with strangers.... I have 2 grandchildren and am now on eggs when they call as there is no rhyme or reason for this behaviour, for instance I came home tonight from work and he was his usual bouncy self, pleased to see me etc so I stroked him and he turned on me, he lunged teeth bared but I managed to get of the way! We are devestated by this because as I said in every other way he is such a great dog but if he bit my grandsons I would never forgive myself...he has growled at them both but not with the viciousness he saves for us.
We have had him from 9 weeks old and we are wondering have we spoilt him as we never had to discipline him as a pup, he was quick to house train etc just a joy to have around. Any advice would be gratefully received....
M


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

maggiesleap said:


> Hi All, not sure if this is the right thread I`m posting in.. (new member)
> 
> We have a year old lakeland terrier, male un-neutered, who has been getting progressively more aggressive over the last couple of months. It started with him getting territorial over his bed, he sleeps in the kitchen, to where, moreso at weekends when we are home all day, we can barely go near him. Its not just growling its full on snarling and snapping with teeth bared. The first time he done this my husband smacked him on the bum and he bit him hard peircing the skin, we put him outside where he growled and growled and stayed outside all night! The next morning he was fine and his usual playful self. He bit me a few days later when I was stroking him piercing skin etc... we took him to the vet as he had developed a limp and we thought that there was something wrong with him for his behaviour to change so dramatically but he couldnt find anything wrong with him and this seemed to be a one off (or 2!) , we put it down to maybe an upset stomach or something!
> Anyway it has got progressively worse with him snarling and almost lunging at us, not all the time though as in every other way he is a great wee dog, he loves his walks (4-6 miles a day) were he gets a good run off the lead. He is great with other dogs, very playful etc. Loves people coming into the house and isnt aggressive even with strangers.... I have 2 grandchildren and am now on eggs when they call as there is no rhyme or reason for this behaviour, for instance I came home tonight from work and he was his usual bouncy self, pleased to see me etc so I stroked him and he turned on me, he lunged teeth bared but I managed to get of the way! We are devestated by this because as I said in every other way he is such a great dog but if he bit my grandsons I would never forgive myself...he has growled at them both but not with the viciousness he saves for us.
> ...


hi maggie and welcome to the forum 
i cant give you any advice unfortunately but it might be easier for your problem to be seen by posting it as a new topic


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

jazzactivist said:


> Have just ordered some. I like that fact that it is magnesium based to re-balance nervous dogs, and not a dope-like sedative. Will see how Walter gets on with it.
> 
> By the way, there are some beautiful photos of lovely dogs on this forum. I'd have them all!


please could you update on how you get a long with it and if it makes a difference as i cant afford to buy mine till next month


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Will do, blitzens mum. Mine hasn't arrived yet, but I hope they will by next week. It is quite pricey in a way at £18 for 100 tablets, but for small dogs it recommends half to one tablet per day, so that is more than 3 months worth. Well worth it if it works well enough to allow me to train Walt around his problem with people. 

This morning he took a biscuit from the 'dog stalker's' hand, twice, and didn't lunge at her when she crouched down for him or bark when I was talking with her for a while. He refused to sit though, which he does for biscuits at home. So maybe, just maybe...


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

jazzactivist said:


> Will do, blitzens mum. Mine hasn't arrived yet, but I hope they will by next week. It is quite pricey in a way at £18 for 100 tablets, but for small dogs it recommends half to one tablet per day, so that is more than 3 months worth. Well worth it if it works well enough to allow me to train Walt around his problem with people.
> 
> This morning he took a biscuit from the 'dog stalker's' hand, twice, and didn't lunge at her when she crouched down for him or bark when I was talking with her for a while. He refused to sit though, which he does for biscuits at home. So maybe, just maybe...


I am wary of getting Kilo to take biscuits from folk unless he knows and likes them or they have dogs with them (they are OK ); there's a school of thought that it creates conflict in a frightened dog and encourages them to approach what they are afraid of for the biscuit but then once they have taken it they are left in close proximity to their trigger and may react negatively. Hard to know what to do for the best really! I just work on him ignoring them.


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

I stumbled on this while looking for help with a dog potentially fear aggressive with other dogs. Obviously this wasn't what I was looking for but I just wanted to say how impressed I am by your dedication - you have put so much hard work in and I think that's incredibly admirable. I'm sure Walter does too! He's lucky to have you.

With regards to the toddler, I'd have to agree with everyone else - the fact that it was allowed to wander into your garden indicates a lack of supervision, access or not. I bet the grandma got angry with you because she knew she was in the wrong.

I really hope everything works out for you.  You definitely deserve it.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

jazzactivist said:


> Will do, blitzens mum. Mine hasn't arrived yet, but I hope they will by next week. It is quite pricey in a way at £18 for 100 tablets, but for small dogs it recommends half to one tablet per day, so that is more than 3 months worth. Well worth it if it works well enough to allow me to train Walt around his problem with people.
> 
> This morning he took a biscuit from the 'dog stalker's' hand, twice, and didn't lunge at her when she crouched down for him or bark when I was talking with her for a while. He refused to sit though, which he does for biscuits at home. So maybe, just maybe...


blitz's would last 50 days and i guess cheaper than a vet script and well worth the money if it helps, i would do anything to have a normal dog but like you am stuck lol, i love him to pieces which helps
sounds like you are making small steps, my fingers and toes are crossed that you are able to manage his behaviour and keep walt


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> I am wary of getting Kilo to take biscuits from folk unless he knows and likes them or they have dogs with them (they are OK ); there's a school of thought that it creates conflict in a frightened dog and encourages them to approach what they are afraid of for the biscuit but then once they have taken it they are left in close proximity to their trigger and may react negatively. Hard to know what to do for the best really! I just work on him ignoring them.


you hit it in a nut shell, it is really hard to know what to do thats right, i wish there was just one set of rules to follow


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> you hit it in a nut shell, it is really hard to know what to do thats right, i wish there was just one set of rules to follow


That would be so much easier. Rather than encourage interaction and risk Kilo getting 'in too deep' I get him sat at my side or behind me - "Hide". I have started practising saying "Hello" to people who don't exist on our walks as I realised that me greeting people made Kilo alert and look for them. That payed off this evening when a man popped out from behind a car and said hello to us and Kilo didn't alert .


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> That would be so much easier. Rather than encourage interaction and risk Kilo getting 'in too deep' I get him sat at my side or behind me - "Hide". I have started practising saying "Hello" to people who don't exist on our walks as I realised that me greeting people made Kilo alert and look for them. That payed off this evening when a man popped out from behind a car and said hello to us and Kilo didn't alert .


i was told by the behaviourist to avoid people on walks, i'm not sure if this is right tho cos surely by avoiding people blitz will never learn to accept people


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> i was told by the behaviourist to avoid people on walks, i'm not sure if this is right tho cos surely by avoiding people blitz will never learn to accept people


I suspect it may be to drop stress levels? Or, if you can avoid people easily, why not? Does Blitz need to meet anyone? I think it's nice to have a strategy for someone who might pop up suddenly and practise that so that it's less worrying for you but as you see a behaviourist I would stick with their advice.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> I suspect it may be to drop stress levels? Or, if you can avoid people easily, why not? Does Blitz need to meet anyone? I think it's nice to have a strategy for someone who might pop up suddenly and practise that so that it's less worrying for you but as you see a behaviourist I would stick with their advice.


i guess he doesn't need to meet people but it would be nice to be able to take blitz out and about with me, we stick to 4 fields mainly on walks as they are the safest option but sometimes i wish i had a life where i could take blitz wherever i go and have people come to visit in the house, i dont have a social life anymore as i work 40 hours during the week and am loathe to go out to friends or down town on my time off as i dont want to leave himm by himself


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> i guess he doesn't need to meet people but it would be nice to be able to take blitz out and about with me, we stick to 4 fields mainly on walks as they are the safest option but sometimes i wish i had a life where i could take blitz wherever i go and have people come to visit in the house, i dont have a social life anymore as i work 40 hours during the week and am loathe to go out to friends or down town on my time off as i dont want to leave himm by himself


I understand. It is difficult to accept that you don't have the perfect dog that you envisioned I am sure as much as you love him - not meant in a 'bad' way at all; it's hard to convey any meaning really when typing. Kilo will accept people he knows in the house but strangers need a careful introduction to ensure he isn't too anxious. People can't just come in and out as they please unless well known. I only have one friend here so visitors aren't an issue but I would love to have a BBQ for hubby's colleagues etc and can't as Kilo would be too worried. I have put him in kennels overnight when I had friends (since left) round for dinner as her hubby is scared of dogs and Kilo is uneasy around people who are nervous with him.

These sorts of sensitive dogs are hard to understand and manage, I have learnt that much. Rudi is the complete opposite so far, a confident soul who loves people fussing him. Kilo hasn't liked strangers touching him from day one and as much as he has been socialised extensively he still isn't comfortable with them approaching and touching him, he needs to go to them.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> I understand. It is difficult to accept that you don't have the perfect dog that you envisioned I am sure as much as you love him - not meant in a 'bad' way at all; it's hard to convey any meaning really when typing. Kilo will accept people he knows in the house but strangers need a careful introduction to ensure he isn't too anxious. People can't just come in and out as they please unless well known. I only have one friend here so visitors aren't an issue but I would love to have a BBQ for hubby's colleagues etc and can't as Kilo would be too worried. I have put him in kennels overnight when I had friends (since left) round for dinner as her hubby is scared of dogs and Kilo is uneasy around people who are nervous with him.
> 
> These sorts of sensitive dogs are hard to understand and manage, I have learnt that much. Rudi is the complete opposite so far, a confident soul who loves people fussing him. Kilo hasn't liked strangers touching him from day one and as much as he has been socialised extensively he still isn't comfortable with them approaching and touching him, he needs to go to them.


thats the hard thing, you get a pup, you socialise the pup and love the pup to pieces but it still goes wrong, i have never tried to kennel blitz as i am scared he would bite someone and thats a worry as my mum and step dad are both in thier 80's and live in scotland, god knows what i would do if something happened to them

on a good note tho it seems as tho blitz has started to accept my neighbours he no longer barks and growls or lunges at the fence at them or thier dog, still does it to anyone that passes on the road on the other side tho


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> thats the hard thing, you get a pup, you socialise the pup and love the pup to pieces but it still goes wrong, i have never tried to kennel blitz as i am scared he would bite someone and thats a worry as my mum and step dad are both in thier 80's and live in scotland, god knows what i would do if something happened to them
> 
> on a good note tho it seems as tho blitz has started to accept my neighbours he no longer barks and growls or lunges at the fence at them or thier dog, still does it to anyone that passes on the road on the other side tho


Yes, it is hard. Kilo can be kennelled, go to classes etc and he is fine, plus meet anyone and he is fine with a careful introduction. He would rather ignore and be ignored so for that I am grateful. What is Blitz like with folk with dogs? Kilo is a different dog with people with dogs or in fact "dog people" who are unafraid of him but just let him go at his own pace.

I am pleased you've made some progress.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> Yes, it is hard. Kilo can be kennelled, go to classes etc and he is fine, plus meet anyone and he is fine with a careful introduction. He would rather ignore and be ignored so for that I am grateful. What is Blitz like with folk with dogs? Kilo is a different dog with people with dogs or in fact "dog people" who are unafraid of him but just let him go at his own pace.
> 
> I am pleased you've made some progress.


hes not so bad if its women with dogs but men are a different thing, my mate dropped me off from work this evening and if blitz hadn't of been muzzled he would have bit her


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jazzactivist said:


> ...I ... will certainly follow up on the thyroid test...


be sure of 2 things:
- AT LEAST a 5-way test, possibly a 6-way panel:
Bound & free forms of both T3 & T4 [that's 4 levels], plus TSH [Thyroid Stimulating Hormone];
possibly ANA levels [Anti-Nuclear Antibody - indicates autoimmune response].

- It's sent to either the Michigan State Univ vet-labs, or DVM Dodds' HemoPet labs for analysis.

Some vets will claim U "save money" by skipping parts of the 5-way; not so.
Free & bound forms are floor & ceiling; U need the distance *between* them.

Other vets will claim they can analyze the results in-house just as well - also wrong.
MSU has the world's largest *breed-specific* normal thyroid level database.
Dodds spent 30-years on autoimmune k9 issues. Either beats the GP-vet by a country mile.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jazzactivist said:


> Our house is a basic 2 bed terrace... back-door access through the kitchen & dining room,
> & access to upstairs through the sitting-room. The bathroom is upstairs. So it is quite tricky
> putting Walter in another room while guests are here, especially if they want to use the loo!
> 
> ...


Is there a cubby under the stairs?
removing the door & installing a permanent or temporary baby-gate, or just inserting a shipping-crate, 
can make a tucked-away space that he feels more comfy in; the crate can give him lots of covered 
privacy, if he wants to retreat.
BTW U can *teach him* to enter the open crate for comfort when ppl are there - some dogs are so 
frantic, it simply doesn't occur to them to go in & "hide". 


jazzactivist said:


> Our garden is also a bit of a strange arrangement. Access to all gardens is through one another,
> & ours is *second-last.* So we can't completely fence it in. We do have a gate on either side
> of the access route, but the garden isn't big enough to create a fenced walkway, so no way
> of fencing Walter in & others out.


Any chance of TRADING for the last one? That way U are all the way along, & can put a gate 
at the very least. :yesnod:


jazzactivist said:


> We always keep him on a lead outside, even when playing 'find the ball' with him in the garden,
> & he seems to feel more secure when he's on his lead attached to one of us ...it doesn't seem
> to stop him running around. We have a long training lead from the dog behaviourist, but he
> doesn't walk away from us when he's on it. Probly just as well!


sounds good. :thumbup1:


jazzactivist said:


> Walter has a basket-type muzzle that we have used, but he tries to get it off after a few minutes.
> He did keep it on during the vet exam, tho.
> 
> Yesterday I gave him a bath for the first time, & trimmed his claws - something he's never
> let me do before, so perhaps he's still steadily improving, despite the hiccup with the toddler.


We can hope. :yesnod:

Here's a preconditioning session with a box-muzzle:
Desensitization to basket muzzle - YouTube

notice the DOG shoves their nose into the muzzle, it is not "put on" the dog.
The dog puts their face in, the owner only buckles it.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jazzactivist said:


> Our vet wasn't keen to offer [meds], ...he felt ...a year wasn't long-enough ..., given his past,
> to know *if he really needs it*.
> 
> He suggested [continue] the behaviourist's methods & low-protein diet for six mos longer to see
> how it goes, but Walter was exceptionally well behaved at the vet's.


bloody hell. :yikes: Doesn't want much, does he? 
i'd get a 2nd opinion, if possible from a vet behaviorist, not a GP dog-vet. 


jazzactivist said:


> I've looked [for] a natural, herbal, anti-stress potion of some kind that Walt could try, but can't find
> anything available in the UK. A neighbour suggested... Adaptil, but it doesn't seem to have any effect
> ...& *makes everything smell of fish* afterwards!


if that's the same as DAP [Dog-Appeasing pheromone; a plug-in, a pump-spray or impregnated collar],
it should have ZERO odor, it's a pheromone, not a "smell". I'm utterly confused.


jazzactivist said:


> It would be useful to perhaps try something temporarily...


What, When, How... all OTC calmatives in 1 post
Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much...



jazzactivist said:


> Today Walter made a bit more progress with one friend... he & Andy had [walked with him] most of the day.
> Walter loves those long walks & even lets the friend lift him over styles & hold his lead, & sits next him
> for the pub lunch, but when they come back into the house, *he usually growls & barks at him,
> & tries to keep him cornered. *


inadequate Mgmt in the house:
keep him on-lead & away from the friend at a distance that allows the dog to NOT react. 
He can't be allowed to practice reacting - he's got to be under threshold.


jazzactivist said:


> Today, Walt did jump up & down a bit *next to him*, & the friend *held his backpack in front
> of him* just in case, but we *put Walter's lead on again* & he just sat quietly further away
> & watched us drinking tea. He whined after the friend left. ...with any luck, this could be the start
> [of] him accepting more people.


Bold = too close, too much freedom.

Why did U take the lead off, once he was inside? I'm puzzled.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jazzactivist said:


> This morning he took a biscuit from the '*dog stalker*'s' hand, *twice*, & *didn't lunge
> at her when she crouched down* for him, or *bark* when I was talking with her for a while.
> 
> He *refused to sit* tho, which he does... at home.


Please don't do this - for precisely the reasons Dogless noted: he'll break his own comfort-zone, 
eat the goody, realize he's too close, & freak.

i'd bet he HAS failed to take the treat, AND lunged when she crouched, AND barked when she lingered, 
in the past... Yes?  Do i win the teddy-bear?...

He wouldn't sit cuz he was standing tensely, ready to bug-out if things got too scary. :nonod:

Instead, YOU constantly feed tiny but hi-value treats when ppl are visible, audible, or scentable,
OR the stranger throws the goody ====> PAST the dog, who retreats to eat it, looks up when finished, 
toss another, retreat / eat, repeat ad infinitum.

treats can be pea-sized or half-pea sized, & should be LOW carb, HIGH protein, & Low Fat.
Grated Mozz, skinless chkn-breast, tinned or pouch cold-water fish [tuna, salmon, anchovy, 
mackerel, all water-packed], lean beef bits, freeze-dried lamb-lung or other [whitefish, etc]...


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Dogless said:


> Rather than encourage interaction & risk Kilo getting 'in too deep', I get him sat at my side or behind me -
> "Hide".
> 
> *I've started... saying "Hello" to ppl who don't exist on our walks*, as I realised that me greeting
> ...


 _Click!_ ReP!... :thumbup: [wild applause...]


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

blitzens mum said:


> i was told by the behaviourist to avoid ppl on walks... surely by avoiding people Blitz will never learn to accept ppl?


it has to be at whatever distance makes the dog _comfortable_ - aware, but relaxed.
If the dog can eat, they are capable of learning new coping skills & happy associations; 
if they won't eat, back up!

there should be no hackles, no whale-eye [white showing around the iris], no big pupils, no crouching 
nor tails tucked [lowered slightly is OK, but level with the spine or slightly below is better - of course, 
sighthounds naturally carry low, & ring-tailed dogs carry high tails - Nordics, etc.].

Look for a loose, curvy body & alert but relaxed expression.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

blitzens mum said:


> ...it seems ...Blitz has started to accept my neighbours, he no longer *barks & growls or lunges
> at the fence* at them or their dog, [tho *he*] *still does it to anyone that passes on the road* on the other side.


He can't be allowed to practice barking, growling, or lunging at passerby.  It only strengthens his habit.

Suggestions:
Give him more setback from the road,
Bring him in before they get close-enuf to trigger him, 
Use the back or side yard if there is one... Anything that gets him away, or indoors *ahead* 
of his reaction point.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Adaptil is the same as DAP Terry for some reason known to themselves they changed the name from DAP to Adaptil awhile ago.

Must admit Ive used both the plug in diffusers and the collars although not the sprays, still use them now for times of stress and things like firework season, and Ive never noticed any smell at all fishy or otherwise.


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Thanks for all your further posts and advice everyone. Walter is progressing a bit more and seems slightly more relaxed around people. I can't quite work out whether this is natural progression or whether the Nupafeed tabs are already starting to work even though he has only on them for three days!

With regard to a few of your suggestions - we can't swap gardens with our neighbour at the end of the row, as they win prizes for their garden and it is very beautiful. I'm pretty sure they won't want to swap for our allotment-style, doggy one! Second last isn't too bad, as the only people who usually come through it is the couple who own the last one. They are an elderly couple with a dog whom Walter has quickly got used to. 

We usually take Walt off his lead in the house to signify to him that it's his home as well as ours. However, he is certainly calmer with it on if other people are around. So perhaps we should put it on whenever people are around as a matter of course. His barking at other people from inside the house is becoming much less frantic and ferocious than it was and Walt responds much more quickly to the command to stop. If he doesn't stop when we say we put on his retractable lead and he stops immediately. The key to it seems to be the weight of the retractable lead that hangs down next to him. He seems to think he is tethered and just sits quietly in one spot! 

The DB helped with the muzzle training, as I feel very uncomfortable about it. Walter is happy to put his own nose into it if there is a biscuit waving around at the end, and to have the muzzle fastened on. He then gets the biscuit after he's worn it for the required length of time. He seemed happy to wear it at the Vet's, so we wondered if his previous owners had done that and he is used to it.

Our dog stalker No 1 has turned into a bit of a star! Walter now looks for her and rushes towards her wagging his tail. She crouches down and makes him sit for his biscuits while I hold the lead. So far, he definitely hasn't barked or lunged at her, and yesterday accepted a quick stroke on his chest. She's a tenacious woman that's for sure, but seems to know what she's doing. I've explained the risk very thoroughly, but she hasn't given up. 

We've created a space for him in the big cupboard under the stairs - like a dog house where his bed and food / water will be. We'll put a baby gate on it instead of the door, so that he can see out but will be safely behind the gate for when visitors come. Hopefully, we will be able to train him to just go in there when guests arrive and sit quietly. 

There is definitely a 'fishy' smell after using Adaptil. It isn't so much fishy, more like briny ozone as if we've been out walking by the sea on a stormy day. The smell disappeared when we stopped using it, but Walter's leather collar still whiffs of it where I sprayed some on the inside! 

I am so relieved that I wasn't finally tempted to have him PTS after the incident with our neighbour's child. Walter is a lovely dog who deserves good care, and we love him to bits. I really appreciate all the different types of advice you've all offered, and have put quite a few into practice with good results. I know Walter will probably never be the perfectly behaved dog, but I now feel much more confident about him. Thank you.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

It's lovely to get such a positive update :thumbup1: .


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## Stefx (Sep 29, 2012)

In all honesty I haven't read all the comments, nor have I any decent advice on the situation but the first thing that struck me is how much time, effort and persistent commitment you have given this dog. Every single day I see numerous dogs put up for rehoming because 'they bark' or 'they tear the house up' (when left all day). People so easily give up on their pets but its really touching how you haven't. 
I have no idea how someone can actually ADVISE you to put your dog to sleep after reading one post!! Absolutely amazes me and I dread to think if they ever owned a dog that became a dog they didn't 'enjoy' anymore. 
If I was you I'd experiment with behaviourists. Get some different views, one may be fantastic but may be missing a small detail that could make all the difference.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

hi jazzactivist, any updates on how the tablets are working


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Hi blitzen's mum. I can't yet tell if they are working. Walter does seem a bit calmer around people - yesterday we encountered a loose labrador and his owner who stopped to talk. Walt behaved very well - just giving a small 'fear' bark a couple of times, but sitting next to me quietly when I told him to. I can't yet tell whether that is down to the Nupafeed or just continuous training though. If he manages to deal more calmly this week with challenges that usually set him off then I would say it is down to the Nupafeed tabs, although it does say it can take up to three months for them to work properly. I understand how tricky it is to take a risk on buying a never ending range of things to calm your dog when you don't know if they will work, so I will definitely keep you updated.


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Hi blitzens mum and others. Just a quick update on Walter. He's managed to sit in his basket while the person he knows best was in the house for the afternoon! We put his lead on, which seems to calm him down, and left it draped over the edge of his basket which we have placed in a calm spot under the stairs. First, he didn't like being in a different room to us and barked and howled for attention. So I brought his bed through into the same room. He sat in it with his lead on, and after a while he lay down. He was alert all the time, and sometimes made sort of small huffy-whiney noises which we weren't sure whether they were fear or to let us all know he was there! Each time he just got a single stroke and he calmed down. Walt behaved very well with our guest, standing next to me on the lead while he came and went. 

I think the Nupafeed tabs must be helping with this, blitzens mum, as there is a definite calmer air about him in general, although nothing really obvious. It's either that or the heat!


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

jazzactivist said:


> Hi blitzens mum and others. Just a quick update on Walter. He's managed to sit in his basket while the person he knows best was in the house for the afternoon! We put his lead on, which seems to calm him down, and left it draped over the edge of his basket which we have placed in a calm spot under the stairs. First, he didn't like being in a different room to us and barked and howled for attention. So I brought his bed through into the same room. He sat in it with his lead on, and after a while he lay down. He was alert all the time, and sometimes made sort of small huffy-whiney noises which we weren't sure whether they were fear or to let us all know he was there! Each time he just got a single stroke and he calmed down. Walt behaved very well with our guest, standing next to me on the lead while he came and went.
> 
> I think the Nupafeed tabs must be helping with this, blitzens mum, as there is a definite calmer air about him in general, although nothing really obvious. It's either that or the heat!


thats fantastic news, keep up the good work, i know how thrilled you must be feeling, i started with nupafeed last week, fingers crossed it helps blitz


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

The woman in our pet shop has also recommended Vetzyme Calm Dog, which is a natural liquid you mix into your dog's food. It is much cheaper than Nupafeed. She said that customers who are using it have reported that it's working well. I don't think she would lie about it, as its the only pe shop in our small town and all doggie people talk to one another. We'll stick with the Nupafeed for now, but the other one might be worth a try at some point, or if the Nupafeed isn't working for your dog. 

Walt seems to have progressed to standing / sitting quietly next to me if I stop to talk with someone on our walks, but now if anyone else happens to appear and walks by or stops to talk as well he lunges at them! Oh well, small steps... ;-) Thanks again everyone.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

jazzactivist said:


> The woman in our pet shop has also recommended Vetzyme Calm Dog, which is a natural liquid you mix into your dog's food. It is much cheaper than Nupafeed. She said that customers who are using it have reported that it's working well. I don't think she would lie about it, as its the only pe shop in our small town and all doggie people talk to one another. We'll stick with the Nupafeed for now, but the other one might be worth a try at some point, or if the Nupafeed isn't working for your dog.
> 
> Walt seems to have progressed to standing / sitting quietly next to me if I stop to talk with someone on our walks, but now if anyone else happens to appear and walks by or stops to talk as well he lunges at them! Oh well, small steps... ;-) Thanks again everyone.


Progress is progress; no matter how small; well done .

Keep us posted on the other calmative if you don't mind?


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## jazzactivist (May 24, 2012)

Hi. It's Walter and me back again! Just a quick update to let you know how Walter is progressing. After trying the Nupafeed calming supplement for over a month we noticed a slight change in Walter's behaviour. Nothing major, just slightly calmer with any challenges he comes across. But his behaviour at home was still very protective. However, the Vetzyme Stay Calm is working much more effectively (and is cheaper at £5.75 per bottle, and can be bought from the pet shop). We stopped the Nupafeed as we didn't think such a subtle change was enough to keep medicating Walt. Gave it a break for a week, during which time he became very hyper again - barking constantly and shredding a passing man's carrier bag. Then we tried him on the Vetzyme. 

It almost instantly started to make a difference to Walter's anxiety - he isn't barking anywhere near as much, and the bark isn't so intense. He is also handling visitors much better. We had friends come to visit all day last Sunday, and while he barked a lot to begin with (with the muzzle on) he calmed down and was happy to go off into his bed for a snooze. When he woke up and saw they were still there he just gave a few small experimental barks at them and that was it. There was no big love fest, but he handled it well. Big breakthrough was that a delivery man came right up to the front door yesterday, and Walter let me put his lead on and just sat quietly in his bed while I opened the door and dealt with it. Usually he would have his nose right to the door, aggressively growling and barking his head off, and the person would run away!

So, I think the Vetzyme Stay Calm is helping a lot. It's a natural calmative oil that contains chamomile, and I put one small teaspoon of it in his food twice per day. So, if you think your dog would benefit from this maybe try the Vetzyme product first. Phew! Any change that helps Walter relax a bit is a relief. 

Take Care everyone


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## Strawberryearth (Apr 5, 2012)

Wow that's incredible. Thank you for sharing your experiences with both, it is really helpful to have first hand experiences with products and calmatives than some faceless reviews.

I am so happy that he is improving


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

i never saw much improvement in blitz with the nupa feed either, many thanks for your feedback, i am going to give the vetzyme a go too, please keep updating


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm sorry the Nupafeed didn't help either of you; I feel guilty for recommending it in a way as it's not cheap! .


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> I'm sorry the Nupafeed didn't help either of you; I feel guilty for recommending it in a way as it's not cheap! .


dont feel like that its not your fault in the slightest, every dog is different and perhaps different types of aggression respond to different calmatives, i am always grateful for any suggestions as i will try anything to help my dog and if they dont work at least i can cross it off the list instead of wondering 'what if'
if i hadn't of tried it


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