# What is the BEST dry cat food brand?



## Boobub

My 11mo cat is currently on Science Plan-Vet Essentials (for kittens), and I was surprised to hear lots of bad reviews for it. I want my cat to have the best food, so don't want her to be on something (that I pay a lot of money for) knowing it's not doing her any good. 

What are your recommendations? and thoughts on Science plan?


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## emilyjane

Boobub said:


> What are your recommendations? and thoughts on Science plan?


I think Science Plan is definitely up there with one of the better premium foods, though the ingredients etc are different to other good quality ones.

Science Plan is a lot of money, but put it this way, your kitten is getting far better nutrition than those being fed Go Cat. Though, if it is too much money (which in my opinion, it is) then there are plenty of other good quality foods out there that are equally as good if potentially better ingredient wise.

James Wellbeloved, Arden Grange are two of my favs...

But if your kitten is happy and healthy on science plan and money is not an issue, then I wouldn't mess it around too much.


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## Miri

The most highly recommended dry cat foods on this forum are Applaws, Orijen and Acana.

However, if you want your cat to have the best food, it's worth thinking about switching over to a complete wet food or raw food diet. A largely dry food diet can lead to the formation of crystals in the urinary tract, to urinary tract infection, and to a cat becoming overweight.

Wet foods that are popular and/or are considered to be high quality here include Animonda Carny, Feringa, Grau, Lily's Kitchen, Nature's Menu, Smilla and Bozita. (Probably best to try tins of Bozita rather than tetrapaks - I've heard of several cats not reacting well to the tetrapaks.)

I can't advise on raw feeding, as I don't have any experience, but I'm sure there'll be someone along soon to offer you good advice on the subject. What I will say is that this seems to be THE way to go if you want to give your cat the best possible nutrition, although you do need to know what you're doing.

One final thing: it's always good to introduce your cat slowly to new foods - changing over abruptly can sometimes give them an upset stomach.


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## Elizabeth and Bertie

Please don't waste your money on Science Plan.

I fed my cats Science Plan for years, until one of my cats became diabetic at the age of 8....

Now I could kick myself for not realising that I was feeding my cats total cr*p for all that time. (Well, my vet had recommended it and sold it too, so it had to be good for them, right...? :nono

Once my cat became diabetic I started to read up about feline nutrition, and couldn't believe what a complete idiot I'd been. How could I have not realised that cats are obligate carnivores and are meant to eat meat? (Duh!)

So, I switched my cats to wet/canned food. The change in their condition was amazing. And now I'm experimenting with feeding raw food too.

The two main problems with dry food are that it is stonkingly high in carbohydrates (which cats' bodies can't deal with), and that it is totally devoid of water. Cats have evolved to get most of their water from their food (small prey animals) and so don't have much of a thirst drive. Many cats drink too little water when fed dry food and some live in a state of chronic low level dehydration.

However, dry food is designed to taste good, and cats can get 'addicted' to it. Once a cat becomes a dry food addict it can be difficult to transition them to wet food.

Please don't make the mistake that I made...

Have a look at the following link for more info:
Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health


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## Boobub

Elizabeth and Bertie said:


> Please don't waste your money on Science Plan.
> 
> I fed my cats Science Plan for years, until one of my cats became diabetic at the age of 8....
> 
> Now I could kick myself for not realising that I was feeding my cats total cr*p for all that time. (Well, my vet had recommended it and sold it too, so it had to be good for them, right...? :nono
> 
> Once my cat became diabetic I started to read up about feline nutrition, and couldn't believe what a complete idiot I'd been. How could I have not realised that cats are obligate carnivores and are meant to eat meat? (Duh!)
> 
> So, I switched my cats to wet/canned food. The change in their condition was amazing. And now I'm experimenting with feeding raw food too.
> 
> The two main problems with dry food are that it is stonkingly high in carbohydrates (which cats' bodies can't deal with), and that it is totally devoid of water. Cats have evolved to get most of their water from their food (small prey animals) and so don't have much of a thirst drive. Many cats drink too little water when fed dry food and some live in a state of chronic low level dehydration.
> 
> However, dry food is designed to taste good, and cats can get 'addicted' to it. Once a cat becomes a dry food addict it can be difficult to transition them to wet food.
> 
> Please don't make the mistake that I made...
> 
> Have a look at the following link for more info:
> Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health


That's shocking! My vet made science plan out to be the best food you could possibly give them. And worth the money.  !!!

My cat took to science plan straight away, so I think weaning her off it is going to be a struggle.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look. Thanks for the help, and thanks everyone else too.


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## ilovedsh

Hi there,

Get your cat off dry food as soon as possible, please read the attached leaflet from feline-nutrition.

Vets are promised the following to promote Hills Science Plan and Royal Canin from the manufacturers: *they promise to increase the vets business thus making the vet profits through the sale of Royal Canin and Hills Science Plan* (The profits talked about here are from your cats illnesses related to dry food, and most vets know naff all about nutrition). Dry food is full of cr*p and isn't really good for your cat and leads to health complications and this is why vets businesses thrive on promoting Hills Science Plan and Royal Canin and other dry food brands.

I have transitioned my cat Sky over to the Power of Nature Lamb canned cat food in under a week and she loves it.

All the best wet cat food seems to be German and available from Zooplus, (This site is in English) floyds, cats-country and many more (Download and use googlechrome to access the website as it will translate it into English for you). The German brands that spring to mind that are good are Ropocat, Grau, Macs, Catzfinefoods, Power of Nature and Bozita pate food (Not Chunks as the pate has a higher meat content) and the reason why is because they have a higher meat content than the stuff available in the UK. Delivery times from the above mentioned websites are 3 days during the week, I order on a Monday and it is delivered on Wednesday (No weekend deliveries are available only week days as Zooplus use Parcel Force and the other two use DPD and all parcels are trackable).

Remember everytime you are feeding your cat dry food it will be prone to dehydration, dry flaky skin, cystitis, lethargy, kidney disease, obesity and many more illnesses related to feeding dry food. Have a read of Feline Nutrition this helped me in making the decision to change Sky's diet (Yes the site goes on about raw feeding but high meat contented food is just as good).

Hope this helps?


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## kr00t0n

If you struggle wean off dry, go with Applaws Dry during the weaning phase as it is readily available in this country and has much fewer carbs than the other crud.


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## Kyria

I agree with all the other posts on here. Please dont give your kitten dry food for some reason vets always say its the best but it really isnt.

I feed both mine wet food, and am now playing around with the idea of giving them raw if they like it. For a treat now and then I do give them Applaws but just a handful for a treat. I would never put dry food down for a meal for them now after reading about just how bad it is for them.


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## ilovedsh

Kyria said:


> I agree with all the other posts on here. Please dont give your kitten dry food for some reason vets always say its the best but it really isnt.
> 
> I feed both mine wet food, and am now playing around with the idea of giving them raw if they like it. For a treat now and then I do give them Applaws but just a handful for a treat. I would never put dry food down for a meal for them now after reading about just how bad it is for them.


You should really weigh the dry food out instead of measuring it in handfuls as you could over feed your kittens/cats by feeding it handfuls as they are only meant to have so much a day food wise. Deducted the dry food you feed from their wet food amount wise as well to keep their diet balanced  There are recommended guidelines on feeding food on the packaging.

I hope that helps?


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## Boobub

ilovedsh said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Get your cat off dry food as soon as possible, please read the attached leaflet from feline-nutrition.
> 
> Vets are promised the following to promote Hills Science Plan and Royal Canin from the manufacturers: *they promise to increase the vets business thus making the vet profits through the sale of Royal Canin and Hills Science Plan* (The profits talked about here are from your cats illnesses related to dry food, and most vets know naff all about nutrition). Dry food is full of cr*p and isn't really good for your cat and leads to health complications and this is why vets businesses thrive on promoting Hills Science Plan and Royal Canin and other dry food brands.
> 
> I have transitioned my cat Sky over to the Power of Nature Lamb canned cat food in under a week and she loves it.
> 
> All the best wet cat food seems to be German and available from Zooplus, (This site is in English) floyds, cats-country and many more (Download and use googlechrome to access the website as it will translate it into English for you). The German brands that spring to mind that are good are Ropocat, Grau, Macs, Catzfinefoods, Power of Nature and Bozita pate food (Not Chunks as the pate has a higher meat content) and the reason why is because they have a higher meat content than the stuff available in the UK. Delivery times from the above mentioned websites are 3 days during the week, I order on a Monday and it is delivered on Wednesday (No weekend deliveries are available only week days as Zooplus use Parcel Force and the other two use DPD and all parcels are trackable).
> 
> Remember everytime you are feeding your cat dry food it will be prone to dehydration, dry flaky skin, cystitis, lethargy, kidney disease, obesity and many more illnesses related to feeding dry food. Have a read of Feline Nutrition this helped me in making the decision to change Sky's diet (Yes the site goes on about raw feeding but high meat contented food is just as good).
> 
> Hope this helps?


Thank you so much. I can't believe I never knew how bad dry food is for cats! It's shocking to hear that vets would do that for money. 

I'm going to have a look at the website you've suggested and order some wet food for her asap.

Thanks again, and thanks to all the people who have answered.


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## ilovedsh

Boobub said:


> Thank you so much. I can't believe I never knew how bad dry food is for cats! It's shocking to hear that vets would do that for money.
> 
> I'm going to have a look at the website you've suggested and order some wet food for her asap.
> 
> Thanks again, and thanks to all the people who have answered.





> vets would do that for money


 Well its your money they are getting because of the vet fees for the illnesses cats get from dry food. It's a business at the end of the day and this is a way of them making money from you. They won't openly admit that dry food is bad for cats because they don't know much about nutrition and are taught to promote Royal Canin & Hills Science Plan dry food and to sell it (I missed diabetes off the list of illnesses your cat would be prone to from dry food and if you look here there is a list of illnesses related to dry food http://www.catinfo.org/ as well as advice on cats diets).



> Quoted from catsinfo:
> 
> *Diet is the brick and mortar of health.* *This web page lays out some often-ignored principles of feline nutrition and explains why cats have a better chance at optimal health if they are fed a canned food diet instead of dry kibble*. *Putting a little thought into what you feed your cat(s) can pay big dividends over their lifetime and very possibly help them avoid serious, painful, and costly illnesses.* An increasing number of American Veterinary Medical Association members, including board-certified veterinary internists, are now strongly recommending the feeding of canned food instead of dry kibble.
> 
> *The three key negative issues associated with dry food are:
> 
> 1) water content is too low
> 
> 2) carbohydrate load is too high
> 
> 3) type of protein - too high in plant-based versus animal-based proteins*


Do some research and you'll be surprised, just look things up via google and yahoo this is how I found the website about feline nutrition. Here's another link for you Know Your Cat - Basics of cat nutrition.

Dry cat food is now banned in my household and even the wet food versions they have come up with (Hills Science Plan & Royal Canin and all the other ones like IAMS etc), only the better quality food is allowed (From Germany and Sweden).

Edited: Since last week when Sky first tried Power of Nature Lamb canned food she has been like a little kitten again (At the age of 3 years and 8 months), she has more energy, is more playful and very affectionate  I like the new Sky


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## CharlieChaplin

Boobub - don't give up on your search for wet food, cats cat be fussy little buggers, mine were a nightmare to get off felix. So keep perserveering. You can try the food club thread for samples people will post out of stuff their cat doesn't like.

But I agree with switching them from the science plan to applaws or Orijen (or encore from Sainsburys - which is similaer to Applaws I have been told). Just making this transition on dry food is a great step!

Make sure the wet you buy is *complete*. Complementry is more like a treat for cats, but my cats love it so sometimes I mix it in with a new less liked complete food, or as a weekend treat. They are too cute to say no to 

If you are finding them hard to get onto wet I think you can add water to the biscuits to make them soggy - to get them used to the new texture. You can even add extra water to the wet for good measure

Final note; any changes you make, ensure they are done slowly - even the dry food, and especially the wet food.

And finally - when in doubt ask  good luck!


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## Associate

Hi,

Even though I have become aware of getting my adult cat off dry food, while weaning him off, I was wondering if it will be ok to give him the following Applaws dry food?:

Applaws Cat Adult Dry Mix Chicken and Salmon 2 kg: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

Secondly, excuse my ignorance, is this grain free please?

Thank you


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## temsley

My vet told me to use Royal Canin Sensitive but not the dry food they do a chicken and rice meaty chunk one pouches and a Duck and Rice pate style one in foil trays, unfortunately the cat it got recommended for died and whilst my remaining cat would eat it whilst Bobby was alive he seems to have gone off of it since he died strange things cats, it was as though he was only eating it to encourage his brother, although his brother didn't need the encouragement.
I do put biscuits down, but Sammy likes those treat packets with cheese in so i tend to give them more as treats.
My cats favourite food has always been Tuna and i sed to feed them the one in brine but the vet says it must only be the Tuna in Spring Water.
Tuna is so expensive now so i tend to stock up on it for myself and that cats when it is on special offer, but i only give it as a change like a treat. They will only eat fish if its from the fish and chip shop and chicken that we are eating, in fact they like any meat we eat, even donor kebab meat although i would say that is a once or twice a year thing, oh and they like Peking duck when we have it lol


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## CharlieChaplin

Associate said:


> Hi,
> 
> Even though I have become aware of getting my adult cat off dry food, while weaning him off, I was wondering if it will be ok to give him the following Applaws dry food?:
> 
> Applaws Cat Adult Dry Mix Chicken and Salmon 2 kg: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies
> 
> Secondly, excuse my ignorance, is this grain free please?
> 
> Thank you


I think this is grain free - which is why it is one of the better ones to use. But don't quote me as I don't have a pack in my cupbord. Hopefully someone else will be along to varify.....

I think Applaws use potato instead of grains. Applaws is one of the recommended dry foods (but wet is best). Also 'good' is Orjen, acana and Encore. Encore is apparnetly availble from sainsburys and the same as Applaws but cheaper. Again this is all stuff I have read here.

Good luck with the weaning


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## Associate

Thank you for all your help so far 

I hope I could get input on the following 2 questions please, and apologise if it is slightly off topic or if I'm repeating what has already been discussed in past threads:

*
1)Are dry cat foods like GoCat and even Tesco's Premium dry food a definite no no and "known" to cause harm?*

*2)Should cat treats that come in biscuit form and "crunchy outside & soft inner flavour" form (that can be bought in bags for between 50p to £2 from supermarkets) also be avoided?*

Thank you.


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## Paddypaws

I used to feed my cats on a dry diet and one of my boys developed a serious problem with stones after being fed Go Cat for only a short period of time.....the vet at the time said it was one of the worst foods for causing these problems.
i think the high mineral content of many dry foods....presumably including Tescos Premium...is a major problem, especially for male cats.
As for treat biscuits....well apart from being rather expensive, I guess the odd Dreamie wouldn't hurt most cats. Thrive are much more expensive, but made from pure meat so would be a better option.


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## chillminx

temsley said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> My cats favourite food has always been Tuna and i sed to feed them the one in brine but the vet says it must only be the Tuna in Spring Water.
> Tuna is so expensive now so i tend to stock up on it for myself and that cats when it is on special offer, but i only give it as a change like a treat.
> 
> 
> 
> I am pleased to hear you are no longer feeding your cat tuna regularly. It is not good for them to eat it very often, whether it is the stuff in brine or in Spring water.
> 
> The fact is all deep sea fish are contaminated with mercury (which is extremely toxic), and government advice (for humans and pets) is to eat tuna only *occasionally*, maybe once a month.
Click to expand...


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## temsley

chillminx said:


> temsley said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I am pleased to hear you are no longer feeding your cat tuna regularly. It is not good for them to eat it very often, whether it is the stuff in brine or in Spring water.
> 
> The fact is all deep sea fish are contaminated with mercury (which is extremely toxic), and government advice (for humans and pets) is to eat tuna only *occasionally*, maybe once a month.
> 
> 
> 
> I would say i don't give it them that regularly mybe once every two or three months, like i said its so expensive so it really is a treat, I don't feed biscuits as a main meal i put a small amount down with Sammy's regular wet food but he tends to leave it if its not the dreamies type or the Whiskas with cheesy nuggets and then he will only eat the cheesy ones, they know what they like.
> I had so many biscuits go cat that i am now leaving them out for a stray cat that is always hanging round our house (i think he is stray as he is long-haired, very small and not well groomed, but after the last 2 nights of cats fighting and howlling outside my front door, and the fact that during the day the magpies are eating more of them than the cat, and now because you have said that Go Cat is bad for cats i think i will stop it. This apparently stray cat will not come near me but he comes to visit Sammy who gets all excited and purry when this cat is about, thats what gave me the idea Sammy might need a companion.
Click to expand...


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## perrin

I dont know why people bad mouth dry food i have an 17 and an 18 year old cats and they have only ever eaten dry food so it has obviously not affected them


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## Cookieandme

perrin said:


> I dont know why people bad mouth dry food i have an 17 and an 18 year old cats and they have only ever eaten dry food so it has obviously not affected them


Must be good for them then.

Each to their own, but if people come asking about the best food for their cats, the experienced members will show reasearch which proves a wet diet is better for their cats than a dry one.


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## jaycee05

I feed my cats mainly wet food, but they are fussy,they will eat "simply " till the cows come home, but not too keen on other wet foods, 
I now buy Burgess dry food for nibbles, which is locally made and no nasty dead animals for meat[as some do have them in it]meaning from kill shelters if made in the US
,My vet says Burgess is as good as any of the higher priced ones,and only abot £16-18 for a 10kg bag
Does anyone else feed Burgess, i use to always feec James Wellbeloved which they really like, but had to cut down for a while 
due to finances,I will check out Encore from Sainsbuerys


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## perrin

I have researched wet and dry its part of my job and in proven studies it shows that dry is better. Due to several factors from top to toe of cat and dog


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## Cookieandme

perrin said:


> I have researched wet and dry its part of my job and in proven studies it shows that dry is better. Due to several factors from top to toe of cat and dog


Perhaps you would like to share your research then.


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## Jesthar

perrin said:


> I have researched wet and dry its part of my job and in proven studies it shows that dry is better. Due to several factors from top to toe of cat and dog


Care to share? As long as those studies haven't been sponsored by the mainstream pet food industry, I'm all ears. If they have, then I'll view them in the same light I view all those studies on smoking sponsored by tobacco companies - you know, the ones where they consistently find 'no link' between tobacco smoke and cancer/lung disease? 

There are, of course, exceptions to any general rule. We've all read the newspaper articles about some 110 year old great-grandma who smokes like a chimney and drinks whiskey like water, after all! Likewise, some cats eat dry all their life and never have problems.

However, there are some basic facts which can't be denied.

1) Cats can't digest grain or grain derivatives. Some are even intolerant to it. Feed a cat grain, and it means they don't digest their food properly or get all the nutrients out the food, so they need to eat a lot more food to satisfy them.

2) A cat in the wild eats meat, because this is what it was born to do - it is an obligate carnivore. A cat's whole physiology is geared towards a pure prey diet - raw meat, offal and bone.

3) Cats are also designed to get over 90% of their water intake from their food, which means most of them don't drink enough when fed dry food. That can lead to all manner of problems, including urinary crystals.

4) Feeding any creature on the planet (humans included) a diet it is not designed to digest safely is going to cause problems, sometimes major ones. Remember mad cow disease - one of the unfortunate side effects of feeding cattle (who, of course, are herbivores) animal byproducts?

Most widely available commercial cat foods (wet AND dry) contain lots of grains and grain derivatives - not because they are good for the cat, but because they are both cheap fillers AND keep the cat hungrier and eating more, and so increase the profit margin in two ways.

Well, more than two ways, actually. Your cat develops a health problem on a certain dry food? Urinary tract infections, maybe, or obesity? No need to worry - the pet food company also has a specialist food designed for just this kind of situation. Granted, it's rather more expensive, but you're going to buy it because your vet is recommending it (just like the pet food company has trained them to do - and the vet gets a cut, too, if you buy it through them).

Never mind that most of the problems would best be resolved by feeding the cat a balanced, wet, grain free diet as nature intended - there's PROFIT in them thar health issues...


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## CAPA7

perrin said:


> I have researched wet and dry its part of my job and in proven studies it shows that dry is better. Due to several factors from top to toe of cat and dog


I would like to know about your research as well please. What are the factors you mentionned? Also, just out of curiosity, what is your job?


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## spid

LOTS OF LINKS IN THIS TO SHOW WHY DRY ISN'T GOOD

Cats love dry - but we like cake but don't eat it all the time! It's full of completely unnecessary carbs that are there to bulk the food out and make it cheaper for the manufacturers to produce. Add to that that cats find it incredibly hard to metabolise you end up paying for them to poop it out. The additives and sugars that are in dry are a contributory factor to feline obesity. 
Also dry is incredibly dehydrating for cats as cats have evolved to get 99% of their fluids from their prey and so have no natural thirst drive. For each 50g of dry they eat they need about 1/2 pint of water to counteract the dehydrating effects. Even with a water fountain most cats find this a hard amount of water to drink. 
Dehydration can lead to kidney problems, UTIs and crystals forming in the bladder. This is especially bad for neutered boys (no idea why neutered) but boys because they have a longer urethral tract and often the crystals get stuck in their willy when they try to pass them and it is incredibly painful. Obviously not all cats will get this - but you have to weigh up the risks and decide to do what is best for you.

The worst wet is better than the best dry. Yes even Whiskas and Felix!

For wet the higher the meat percentage the better. I like to feed anything above 60% but tend to go for 97% or more, watch out for the offal content though.

I personally feed a mixture of raw, Bozita, Aminonda Carny, and Grau, I have fed Natures Menu and Hi-life in the past, and probably will again. Other good ones are Petnatur, Tiger, Macs etc. These foods are found either at Pet Supplies, Pet Food, Dog Food, Cat Food and Pet Accessories at Zooplus or other german suppliers. Other have ordered from the other suppliers but I haven't had the courage yet. Nature's Menu can be found at [email protected] as can Hi-life.

If you really need to feed dry - look at Orijen, Applaws, and Acana - these are grain free.

As with all good food they may seem more expensive (wet and dry) to begin with, but you feed less and they poop less, AND it's a lot less smelly.

SOme links

HomeVet healthy pets articles, animal health, dog care, cat wellbeing, Dr Feinman VMD Does Dry Food Clean the Teeth? | Little Big Cat
Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health
cat nutrition - blog
Feline Urinary Tract Health: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM :: cat urinary tract health
Kidney Failure in Cats Symptoms and Treatment

and this book is brilliant - written by a vet qualified in feline nutrition SPECIFICALLY and once part of the pet food industry. Over 20 years vet experience too.

Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life: Amazon.co.uk: Elizabeth M. Hodgkins: Books

I suppose it's all about risk.

Many people will quote the old lady down the road who smoked like a chimney, drank a quart of scotch a day, never exercised in her life and lived to be a 100. But they omit to tell you about the 50 others that fell by the wayside along the way. You could do really well with your cat. But . . . and here's the crunch; if it is not it a solely indoor cat fed ONLY that and not supplementing it's diet outside, then you can get lucky, if isn't then the natural food it eats helps it along.

It's a very difficult and potentially contentious subject - pet foods have taken off in the last 25 years - the market is now HUGE and not enough adequate research has been done into the health effects and benefit of all these foods. The research that has been done is rarely independent and never long term. When we had my first cats they ate what was there, there were no dry foods, they hunted to supplement their diet (in fact that's what most cats were kept for - vermin control), there were no kittens or breed specific foods and yet most did well. Obesity and diabetes and kidney failure were rare. And yet all of those are on the rise in our feline population - as it is in humans.

And what is the contributing factor, what has changed for both us and cats? - DIET.

Cats can't digest grains/ carbs - but the makers of Felix and the like use a lot of grains/ cellulose fillers etc in their foods as it is actually cheaper than meat. So the cats struggle to digest it, what they do digest interferes with their biological systems and sometimes causes them to put on weight (as that is the bodies way of dealing with excess carbs), this then interferes with insulin production etc and you end up with diabetic cats (not all, just some). This is why cat poop on that diet stinks - they are getting rid of noxious waste. You pay for them to poop most of the Felix type food back out again and because the body doesn't like it it struggles to process it making it smelly in the process. Cats fed raw have almost odorless poops. Add in the fact that dry is a (imho) major contributing factor in UTIs, crystal forming, and kidney disease and you begin to see a bigger picture.

It's all about risk and minimising it. You can feed supermarket foods (and some are better than others) and your cat could live to be in its 20s, of that there is no doubting - but what if your cat is one of the other 50 that won't get to twenty and is more prone to weight gain, chronic kidney failure etc. You weigh up the risks and how to minimise them, you do your research, and then you make an informed choice. And if after all that you still want to feed Felix etc then do so.

There done and updated a little!


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## chillminx

perrin said:


> I have researched wet and dry its part of my job and in proven studies it shows that dry is better. Due to several factors from top to toe of cat and dog


I echo previous posters. Properly done scientific research costs money. The only people likely to fund research into the suitability of dry food are pet food manufacturers. Not only do they have the money available for research, but they have a vested interest in *proving* dry food is *good* per se, so they can sell more of it!

You say studies have shown "dry is better". "Better" is a subjective term which means nothing in a scientific study. Please therefore define what objective, measurable markers were used in the studies to which you are referring?

Over what period of time were the studies done? 
To observe the damage long-term to cats health on a dry food diet, studies would need to be done for 10 years or more on the same group of cats (preferably life time studies ideally).

One reason why a wet food diet is better for cats, is it more closely mimics their natural diet. In the wild a cat's prey would be about 65% water.
Canned pet foods are about 60% to 80% water. Dry food obviously contains no water, and cats are not designed to be be great drinkers. Very few will drink enough water to keep themselves properly hydrated on a dry food diet. Therefore on a dry food diet there is serious risk of a cat suffering chronic low level dehydration, with all the health risks this entails.

Contrary to the blurb handed out by dry cat food manufacturers, kibble does *not* clean cats' teeth. Kibble is hard and brittle, so it is either shattered by the very tips of the cats teeth and then swallowed, or it is 
swallowed whole in the first place.It is certainly never chewed, which it would need to be, to be of benefit to teeth. It is a known fact most dental problems in cats originate from the point where the teeth meet the gums, and are caused by gingivitis, or build-up of plaque. Eating dry food will make no difference at all as it does not touch the gum line when eaten.


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## jaycee05

I have looked up Encore, but it isnt a complete food apparently


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## Treaclesmum

jaycee05 said:


> I have looked up Encore, but it isnt a complete food apparently


I think the dry food is complete, but not the wet - it's the same as Applaws (which is stocked in Pets At Home or online)


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## jaycee05

I have looked online, but it only seems to be sold in 2kg max, i am going to try it anyway,when i get to Sainsburys


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## futureguy

I'll be honest, I cannot believe what I am reading here. We have a 1-year old DSH and out vet told us that he only needs dry food (Royal Canin) and not to feed him wet food at all.

Our fella needs to lose weight so is on a specific feed.


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## Satori

Do you mean literally that you don't believe what you are reading here or are you just expressing your incredulity at the disparity between that and the views of your vet?


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## spid

futureguy said:


> I'll be honest, I cannot believe what I am reading here. We have a 1-year old DSH and out vet told us that he only needs dry food (Royal Canin) and not to feed him wet food at all.
> 
> Our fella needs to lose weight so is on a specific feed.


Have you read the links I posted - they contain research.

To be honest, I find it very hard to believe why so many vets are not at all clued up on cat nutrition and why they seem so happy to push hard on the food that they sell?

My vet knows I feed a) raw and b) wet and c) NO DRY and is very happy.

How much does your boy weigh? If he needs to lose weight cut out the dry and feed a good quality (and this doesn't mean expensive - the funny thing is the expensive ones AREN'T the good ones) and his weight should even out.


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## Cookieandme

futureguy said:


> I'll be honest, I cannot believe what I am reading here. We have a 1-year old DSH and out vet told us that h*e only needs dry food (Royal Canin*) and not to feed him wet food at all.
> 
> Our fella needs to lose weight so is on a specific feed.


I only need food to survive which might be interpreted as any food including cake, I could live off cake but it isn't going to do me any good in the long term rrr:


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## jaycee05

This website gives a lot of information about dry cat food and what is in them, and good or bad ,Oriental Siamese Cats For Sale Illinois Oriental Siamese Kittens Grain Free Cat Food
If thjis link doesnt work, try googling it,i tried this link on here,didnt work for some reason, but it did when i googled it


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## Jesthar

futureguy said:


> I'll be honest, I cannot believe what I am reading here. We have a 1-year old DSH and out vet told us that he only needs dry food (Royal Canin) and not to feed him wet food at all.
> 
> *Our fella needs to lose weight* so is on a specific feed.


Poor lad - how overweight is he? Where does he come on this chart?










Switching to a grain and chemical additive free dry food (or better yet, grain free wet food) would be a very good way to help your cat lose weight - grain in food is one of the leading causes of feline obesity, as their bodies just aren't designed to process it. A cat's stomach cannot digest such complex carbohydrates, and most of the time it gets stored as fat, which will build up over months or years. A lot of dry cat food can also contain significant levels of sugar derivatives, which is also not good. And as an additional side effect, it makes their poo *STINK* to high heaven.

Or think of it this way - I wouldn't feed my friends horse minced beef, as he is a herbivore and supposed to eat grass and grain and wouldn't be able to digest it. Cats, on the other had, are designed to eat just meat, so why feed them grains they can't digest?

I can't comment on the specific Royal Canin food you are feeding as you didn't mention the name, but even 'prescription' brands (such as Royal Canin and Hills) have a huge amount of grains and cereals in, and not much meat-based protein.

Sadly many vets don't understand this as they receive very little training on nutrition (I have a friend who is training as a vet currently), and usually the training they do receive is sponsored and given by the big bet food companies - like Royal Canin. So many vets only know what the pet food companies tell them - and the pet food companies like dry food as it has by far the biggest profit margin.

If you want to stick with dry food, then Applaws 80% meat, Acana and Orijen are the brands most recommended on here, as they are grain free and have the highest meat content of currently available foods.

Hope that helps! If it's any comfort, I used to feed my cat grain laden dry before I watched a programe on the TV on how dry pet food is made, and saw what actually goes into it... 

~Jes


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## munchkinpie

I like you fed dry until I came on here and came to my senses. Think about what your cat would live on if we weren't feeding them. Their diet wouldn't be made up of dry carb-filled biscuits. I slowly weaned my boy off RC onto wet then have introduced raw, which I plan to give as their main food source. Research raw, I have been feeding N.I I have read reviews, and seen photos of the improvements in skin, coat and dental condition. Only a few days ago I seen a photo on here of the most glossy black cat I have ever seen, his coat was immaculate. They fed raw. I would advise you to wean him off dry, it's hard but worth it.


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## Ion

I've spend hours looking at this online and talking to cat owners, vets and anyone else with an opinion and I reckon there is not clear cut answer to this. I've seen arguements about natural diet, evolution, health issues, teeth cleaning, etc etc, and I've heard about problems with 'the research', points about sampling biases, correlations only - no causality, certain companies funding the research, etc etc. It goes on and on.

What I have actually seen with may own eyes is that cats can can live a happy health life on a high quality dry food only diet, as well as a wet food only diet. I'd say the thing to do is feed your cat a high quality cat food either wet or dry, or a bit of both. I think the best dry food we can get in the UK is Orijen and it's better to feed your cat this rather than poor quality wet food like whiskas. It's also very important to provide your cat with plenty of water and lots of stimulation throughout it's lifespan, eg an active cat might not be affected by cat food with moderate carbohydrate content as it he/she uses it up running around but a less active or older cat won't and this could led to health problems so you'd need a low carb diet.

Personally I think it's a good idea to find out what your cat prefers either wet or dry and feed him/her accordingly. My cat is currently on a 2:1 ratio of wet and dry and a bit of cooked chicken now and again. I'm using Orijen and planning to trial Applaws dry soon.

If you are looking at dry this link is useful (someone tried to post it before but the url had changed):
Dry Food Comparison Chart | Zero Carb and Grain Free Cat Food


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## chillminx

purrform said:


> Try our products, available to order now.
> Purrform - 100% Natural frozen ground raw meat and bone cat food | Premium cat food | Raw food for pet | Frozen pet food | Frozen raw diet for pets | Raw minced meat | Pre-portioned frozen cat food


They are not complete meals, only *complementary*, according to your website Also, it's expensive for what it is.

How much is the delivery charge, and what is the delivery time?


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## crispycat

chillminx said:


> They are not complete meals, only *complementary*, according to your website Also, it's expensive for what it is.
> 
> How much is the delivery charge, and what is the delivery time?


In fear of sounding ignorant please could u tell me are all food labelled complete or complementary or is it sometimes left to us to figure out 

I agree the above does sound expensive hopefully the poster will come back and explain and justify the cost a bit more


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## spid

What on earth is the point? This is the precise argument I've been having with NBN! £5.95 for 420g BLOODY HELL! NI is £4.25 for 1kg and it's complete!


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## Satori

crispycat said:


> In fear of sounding ignorant please could u tell me are all food labelled complete or complementary or is it sometimes left to us to figure out
> 
> I agree the above does sound expensive hopefully the poster will come back and explain and justify the cost a bit more


Under EU regulations they have to specify, always.


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## Satori

purrform said:


> Try our products, available to order now.
> Purrform - 100% Natural frozen ground raw meat and bone cat food | Premium cat food | Raw food for pet | Frozen pet food | Frozen raw diet for pets | Raw minced meat | Pre-portioned frozen cat food


Are you for real? Not only is this stuff complementary it all varies as to how far it falls from being complete what with one sku containing liver and another containing heart. It would be nearly impossible to concoct a balanced diet from that stuff. Add to that the price and I can't why anybody would bother.

I am pleased to see another entrant into this field and I hope you modify your product, pricing and marketing so that the cat products can become viable. Right now they are not. They have no market. The consumers for raw cat food are not like the people who buy the advertising from the big 4; they are educated about feline nutrition. Read some of the posts on this forum if you don't believe me. (Actually you should have done that before making your ill-judged first post).

Stick around. Your target consumers are potentially here and can tell you what a good raw cat food would spec like if you were willing to listen.


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## lougarry

I'm in the process of switching one of my dogs onto raw and will probably do the same for my other dog shortly. The more I read the more committed I am to raw feeding. My cat was raw fed as a kitten and I am on the verge of switching him back. The only thing that deters me is the high cost of delivery. I have a small local business supplying for my dog and I will discuss with them the possibility of developing a range for cats.


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## Dave the cat

Has anyone heard of *Thrive*?
I agree all dry food might not be the best you can give your cat but it is convenient. I use a mix of Thrive wet and dry cat food. You only need to read the ingredients to know how good it is. It looks expensive but the dry food pack last much longer than you expect, up to 2 weeks for about £6-7 and the wet cat food *is* the best cat food available and complete which most wet foods aren't, also there are always has special offers on their web site. 
Dave sits by his bowl and cries for it, and he is not the crying type.


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## sethupicton

My cat has been using Science Plan.


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## Satori

Dave the cat said:


> Has anyone heard of *Thrive*?
> I agree all dry food might not be the best you can give your cat but it is convenient. I use a mix of Thrive wet and dry cat food. You only need to read the ingredients to know how good it is. It looks expensive but the dry food pack last much longer than you expect, up to 2 weeks for about £6-7 and the wet cat food *is* the best cat food available and complete which most wet foods aren't, also there are always has special offers on their web site.
> Dave sits by his bowl and cries for it, and he is not the crying type.


Thrive dry is inferior to the recognized quality dry foods. Thrive complete wet is not a balanced food and should only be fed as a complementary treat.


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## chillminx

Dave the cat said:


> Has anyone heard of *Thrive*?
> I agree all dry food might not be the best you can give your cat but it is convenient.
> 
> 
> 
> "Convenient" and effort-free for the owner, but definitely not best for the health of the cat. But in the long term the owner might find they are having to shell out a lot on vet fees, if their cat develops bladder or kidney problems due to too much dry food.
> 
> Thrive wet food, as Satori says, is not a balanced food.
> It is also expensive for what it is, and not good value for money.
Click to expand...


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## Dave the cat

Satori said:


> Thrive dry is inferior to the recognized quality dry foods. Thrive complete wet is not a balanced food and should only be fed as a complementary treat.


Thrive Complete, wet and dry, say it is a complete balanced food (not many wet foods are) I checked after your comment. It may be a little expensive but it has really good ingredients with no added rubbish. The dry is a far better ingredient list to any of the other products being discussed? I'm genuinely interested in you thoughts. I'm new so be gentle


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## Dave the cat

Satori said:


> Thrive dry is inferior to the recognized quality dry foods. Thrive complete wet is not a balanced food and should only be fed as a complementary treat.


Hi I see your a raw feeder, interesting, is raw a balanced diet or do you have to supplement it?


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## Jesthar

Dave the cat said:


> Thrive Complete, wet and dry, say it is a complete balanced food (not many wet foods are) I checked after your comment. It may be a little expensive but it has really good ingredients with no added rubbish.


It had _better_ have some additives in it, cooked chicken or tuna on it's own isn't a complete meal...

And boy that stuff is EXPENSIVE! I'f I'm going to be spending £7 a fortnight on food, it's going to be Nutriment RAW, not tins. 

As to the availability of complete and balanced wet cat foods, there are plenty out there - from the usual low end supermarket brands like Felix, Whiskas, IAMS, Royal Canin etc., to the better, grain free foods (Bozita, Animonda Carny, Butchers Classic etc.) through the high end grain free foods (Grau, Feringa etc.) to the best diet of all for your cat of all, balanced raw food.



Dave the cat said:


> The dry is a far better ingredient list to any of the other products being discussed? I'm genuinely interested in you thoughts. I'm new so be gentle


Nope, Applaws beats the Thrive:

Applaws 80% Chicken
Dry Chicken Meat (min. 59%), *Dry Potato* (min 4%), Chicken Mince (min. 9%), Poultry Oil (min. 9%, source of Omega 6), Poultry Gravy (min. 3%), *Beet Pulp* (min. 3%), Dry Whole Eggs (min. 3%), Brewers Dried Yeast, Salmon Oil (source of Omega 3), Minerals, Cellulose Plant Fibre (min. 0.4%), Sodium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Seaweed/Kelp, Cranberry, DL-Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Yucca Extract, Citrus Extract, Rosemary Extract.

Thrive Complete Chicken Dry
Dried Chicken, (44%), *Rice*, Chicken fat, *Barley*, *Beet Pulp*, *Oats*, 100% Chicken Powder, *Chicken Hydrolysate*, Dried Fish, *Fish Hydrolysate*, Linseed, Minerals, Vitamins, Egg Powder, L-Carnitine, Lecithin, Yucca Extract. 

The Applaws has a higher meat content, and NO grain fillers. Beet Pulp and Dry Potato aren't idea (well, NO dry food is ideal), but necessary evils to bind the product.

For the Thrive, Rice, Barley and Oats are indigestable fillers you don't want to see in a 'best' cat food; rice is usually considered the least bad grain for what that is worth. Hydrolysates are highly processed/'reclaimed' ingredients, so not optimal either.

Much of the rest in both of them are widespread additives, I believe. No dry food is ever going to be anywhere near as fgood for a cat as even the cheapest balanced supermarket wet food, though, simply due to the water content of the wet food - cants are designed to get 90%+ of their water from their prey, and as a result have no thirst drive, so they struggle to stay hydrated on a dry diet.

~Jes


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## Satori

Dave the cat said:


> Thrive Complete, wet and dry, say it is a complete balanced food (not many wet foods are) I checked after your comment. It may be a little expensive but it has really good ingredients with no added rubbish. The dry is a far better ingredient list to any of the other products being discussed? I'm genuinely interested in you thoughts. I'm new so be gentle


I don't know where you are getting your information; you say not many wet foods are complete and balanced. What do you know that we don't? Nearly all wet foods I have encountered are complete and balanced. As for the dry, see the post above from Jes. You have emphatically stated that Thrive complete is the best food available. That must mean you have access to an analytical breakdown of its nutritional content and have compared that to all other wet foods. All manufacturers of quality food that I know of share this data openly. Thrive do not but if you have the data please share it and well take the discussion forward based on facts.

Edit: The most common concern about Thrive complete is that the Ca/P ratio is wrong. Without any data we can only guess. I know where my money would be though.


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## Satori

Dave the cat said:


> Hi I see your a raw feeder, interesting, is raw a balanced diet or do you have to supplement it?


If you feed raw with right ratio of muscle / bone / offal it is a balanced diet but still has to be supplemented to account for loss of nutrient through freezing and / or mincing. The are lots of recipes and threads on this very forum. I do it the lazy way right now, chunks of raw meat supplemented with felini complete. I add the guideline amount of felini for lamb and turkey and 20-25% more for chicken thighs and pork shoulder.


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## dagny0823

futureguy said:


> I'll be honest, I cannot believe what I am reading here. We have a 1-year old DSH and out vet told us that he only needs dry food (Royal Canin) and not to feed him wet food at all.
> 
> Our fella needs to lose weight so is on a specific feed.


My Gwennie was a huge rotund cat topping out at 18.5 lbs when she was eating only dry, which was vet recommended. In fact, the "diet" dry was recommended. She just got bigger and bigger. Then I did a lot of research because what the vet said didn't seem to be working. Learned that dry, and especially diet dry, are filled with undigestible carbs that just turn to fat. Once I got her moved over to raw, with some wet thrown in for variety, she has slimmed down to a pretty svelt 12.5 lbs (over the course of a year she lost 6 lbs of flab) and our new vet says she's in great condition with lovely teeth too.


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## dagny0823

Ion said:


> What I have actually seen with may own eyes is that cats can can live a happy health life on a high quality dry food only diet, as well as a wet food only diet. I'd say the thing to do is feed your cat a high quality cat food either wet or dry, or a bit of both.
> 
> Personally I think it's a good idea to find out what your cat prefers either wet or dry and feed him/her accordingly. My cat is currently on a 2:1 ratio of wet and dry and a bit of cooked chicken now and again. I'm using Orijen and planning to trial Applaws dry soon.


I have seen people do quite well living on a diet of nothing but McDonalds and pizza, for what it's worth. And if you let them pick what they prefer, they would choose McDonalds and pizza over the freshest, organically grown vegetables and pristine wild caught salmon. But what's better for them? Same with cats. Most dry food is sprayed with yummy tasting fats and other things to make it appealing, much in the way McDonalds is engineered to appeal to the pleasure centers in our brains. Letting your cat choose what it prefers is really no different, then, than letting a 5 year old child pick what it wants to eat every day.


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## temsley

The reason I would never go to Dry food being just a cat owner as opposed to a breeder or an expert, is that although my kittens drink plenty my older cat Sammy doesn't and never has, a water fountain helped, but he still doesn't drink enough I feel, therefore at least feeding wet food contains moisture, I am not saying Sammy doesn't drink at all just I don't feel enough, kittens will drink from where ever they see water, so much so I had to tell my other half off the other day as he left the toilet seat up and one of the kittens had his head in the bowl, so although men moan about women nagging about putting the toilet seat down there shows a good reason to do so. Daily i have to put the plug in the sink upstairs has one particular kitten likes to drink water from there, but they drink from their bowls and from the fountain. But as you all mentioned about the grain and the undigestable things in the dry food I don't think I would ever convert that way.
I know that Whiskas Kitten makes my kittens sick so Whiskas is off now, Felix is OK, but I tried them on Hi-life the other day and they seemed to like this all 3 of them did.
on another note:
When my cat Bobby was ill (before he died) I had been prescribed by the vet, Royal Canin sensitive (wet food) as I told the vet my cats would not eat just dry food, the trouble is that none of my cats now will eat it even if they have eaten everything in their bowls, in other words the old saying of "they'll eat it if their hungry" doesn't work they seriously dislike it and will not eat it, so I have about 10 sachets of the Chicken and rice chunks and about 34 foil trays of the Duck pate ones, where is the best place to donate them to as I don't like waste if other cats will eat it.


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## temsley

temsley said:


> on another note:
> When my cat Bobby was ill (before he died) I had been prescribed by the vet, Royal Canin sensitive (wet food) as I told the vet my cats would not eat just dry food, the trouble is that none of my cats now will eat it even if they have eaten everything in their bowls, in other words the old saying of "they'll eat it if their hungry" doesn't work they seriously dislike it and will not eat it, so I have about 10 sachets of the Chicken and rice chunks and about 34 foil trays of the Duck pate ones, where is the best place to donate them to as I don't like waste if other cats will eat it.


After writing this I tried ring Animal action and cats protection but one was answer phone the CP's mailbox was full then I had this brainwave a neighbour of mine has taken in a stray and she has decided to check with the vets to see if it is micro-chipped with a view to adopting it as it seems to be in her house more and more, so I thought I would see if she wants it to see if this stray will eat it., I said if it doesn't maybe a cat charity group might want it and she has a car to be able to deliver it.


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## goonz

I did a lot of research around feeding our cat before we rescued her. In the end I settled for mixing whiskas dry with Orijen in a 50:50 ratio. This seems to work well for her and we also mix in Felix wet pouches occasionally and also some raw chicken when we can.

I am now going to stop the whiskas and move up to a higher quality second dry food to mix with the orijen as simply feeding orijen would be too expensive for me.

I may try Royal canin unless there is anything that is better for similar costs?


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## Cookieandme

goonz said:


> I am now going to stop the whiskas and move up to a higher quality second dry food to mix with the orijen as simply feeding orijen would be too expensive for me.


I am sure some would say stick with the Whiskas, the worst wet is still better than dry.


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## CoCoTrio

You're feeding Whiskas dry mixed with Orijen dry? 

Ditch the dry..! or at least begin to cut it back and introduce more wet food bit by bit... until soon your cat isn't having to eat any dehydrated food anymore.

Butchers Classic and Orijen would be an economical mix whilst you transition. Like C&me said, the cheapest wet is better than even the best dry.


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## MoggyBaby

Cookieandme said:


> I am sure some would say stick with the Whiskas, the worst wet is still better than dry.


Except it is Whiskas DRY being mixed with the Orijen......

I would also say a move over to Butchers Classic - approx £2.74 for 6 x 400g tins - would be FAR better than any dry food. At this price, the cost would not be much greater than what is being paid out for a bag of Orijen.


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## Cookieandme

MoggyBaby said:


> Except it is Whiskas DRY being mixed with the Orijen......
> 
> I would also say a move over to Butchers Classic - approx £2.74 for 6 x 400g tins - would be FAR better than any dry food. At this price, the cost would not be much greater than what is being paid out for a bag of Orijen.


Opps didn't know they did dry


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## MoggyBaby

Cookieandme said:


> Opps didn't know they did dry


Unfortunately they do.

Double the amount of [email protected]!!!!


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## Satori

temsley said:


> The reason I would never go to Dry food being just a cat owner as opposed to a breeder or an expert, is that although my kittens drink plenty my older cat Sammy doesn't and never has, a water fountain helped, but he still doesn't drink enough I feel, therefore at least feeding wet food contains moisture, I am not saying Sammy doesn't drink at all just I don't feel enough, kittens will drink from where ever they see water, so much so I had to tell my other half off the other day as he left the toilet seat up and one of the kittens had his head in the bowl, so although men moan about women nagging about putting the toilet seat down there shows a good reason to do so. Daily i have to put the plug in the sink upstairs has one particular kitten likes to drink water from there, but they drink from their bowls and from the fountain. But as you all mentioned about the grain and the undigestable things in the dry food I don't think I would ever convert that way.
> I know that Whiskas Kitten makes my kittens sick so Whiskas is off now, Felix is OK, but I tried them on Hi-life the other day and they seemed to like this all 3 of them did.
> on another note:
> When my cat Bobby was ill (before he died) I had been prescribed by the vet, Royal Canin sensitive (wet food) as I told the vet my cats would not eat just dry food, the trouble is that none of my cats now will eat it even if they have eaten everything in their bowls, in other words the old saying of "they'll eat it if their hungry" doesn't work they seriously dislike it and will not eat it, so I have about 10 sachets of the Chicken and rice chunks and about 34 foil trays of the Duck pate ones, where is the best place to donate them to as I don't like waste if other cats will eat it.


Nice to read your post Temsley. It sounds like you are on the right track. Hi-life can be a reasonable quality food; just check the package to make sure it is complete and check the ingredients to make sure there is no added sugar. (some of their skus are whiskas/felix level, others are quite good). There's better and cheaper on zooplus and happykitty if you can order online.

Dry food is even worse than you think, you know. It doesn't help much if you think your cat drinks a lot when he is dry fed. I always ask what exactly the owner means by "a lot". For, info a cat would need to drink nearly half a pint of water every day to make up for being dry fed. It ain't gonna happen.

I always drop my unused tins I the charity bin at [email protected] They distribute it shelters.

Edit: So I am told, kittens drowning because of toilet lids left up is, sadly, not that rare.


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## charfield1976

Reading these posts has brought tears to my eyes! My cat, Mango is 13 years old. He has eaten a range of different foods over the years, both wet and dry. Currently he eats one wet pouch of Iams a day and he has a bowl of biscuits (a mixture of Whiskas and Hills dental kibbles) constantly topped up. Only after investigating how I could save money, I started researching options for him and I have been shocked by what I have read on websites dedicated to feline health. Such behaviours as drinking water from the shower tray, the toilet (caught him doing this a couple of times, so lid is kept shut!), flower pots in the garden, even licking moisture off the garden chairs all makes sense now. I even took him to the vet a few years ago when he seemed to be trying to drink water from anywhere he could find it- I feared the worst- kidney-related problems. Fortunately he was fine (although my purse suffered). No recommendations re diet from the vet though. He didn't even ask.
From now on - NO MORE DRY FOOD (he's overweight and has had dental problems, hence the Hills, and now I know why) and I've bought a load of wet pouches from Natures menu. I may even switch to raw at some point. I started looking into this thinking I'd save some money in the short-term, but my kitty's health is paramount. Besides, surely switching his diet could help prevent future health issues (and vet bills). It's a no-brainer for me. I just hope I haven't discovered all this too late for my kitty! (No health issues as yet- fingers crossed it stays that way).

Many thanks for all the posts- it has helped my on the path to feline diet enlightenment!


----------



## EskimoJo

charfield1976 said:


> Reading these posts has brought tears to my eyes! My cat, Mango is 13 years old. He has eaten a range of different foods over the years, both wet and dry. Currently he eats one wet pouch of Iams a day and he has a bowl of biscuits (a mixture of Whiskas and Hills dental kibbles) constantly topped up. Only after investigating how I could save money, I started researching options for him and I have been shocked by what I have read on websites dedicated to feline health. Such behaviours as drinking water from the shower tray, the toilet (caught him doing this a couple of times, so lid is kept shut!), flower pots in the garden, even licking moisture off the garden chairs all makes sense now. I even took him to the vet a few years ago when he seemed to be trying to drink water from anywhere he could find it- I feared the worst- kidney-related problems. Fortunately he was fine (although my purse suffered). No recommendations re diet from the vet though. He didn't even ask.
> From now on - NO MORE DRY FOOD (he's overweight and has had dental problems, hence the Hills, and now I know why) and I've bought a load of wet pouches from Natures menu. I may even switch to raw at some point. I started looking into this thinking I'd save some money in the short-term, but my kitty's health is paramount. Besides, surely switching his diet could help prevent future health issues (and vet bills). It's a no-brainer for me. I just hope I haven't discovered all this too late for my kitty! (No health issues as yet- fingers crossed it stays that way).
> 
> Many thanks for all the posts- it has helped my on the path to feline diet enlightenment!


All the best to you and Mango! :biggrin:

HiLife Nature Essentials (PetsAtHome) and Butchers Classics (supermarkets) are also meant to be quite good, decent value and available on the ground. You can add to your rotation (slowly), as well as all the premium, online foods that get recommended on here.
I plan to add these to my wet rotation once I've figured out and settled on whichever premium(s) Dennis likes.


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## dagny0823

Does anyone else ever notice how, when there's one of these dry food threads, there are a large number of newbies who feel compelled to just post for the first time to say how great dry food is? You have to wonder if Science Plan and Eukaneuba don't pay people to troll internet sites for this very purpose


----------



## sante

I am resisting commenting on any dry food threads as this topic, wet food, raw food dry food has been discussed far to often and the answers are there within the pages of the forum, google and the Internet in general.

Oh I can't help this:
There has been a lot of research done and a lot of debating as well but it's very simple, cats can't digest grains and wheat and dry food contains a huge amount of carbohydrates which cats don't need, cats can live on a diet containing no carbohydrates. Cats are natural hunters and are carnivores (meat eaters) not herbivores (plant eaters), have you ever seen a cat bring home a bag of dry food, no they bring home mice, pigeons, birds etc. Dry food is responsible for cats getting bladder stones, cystitis, kidney infections/diseases, obesity, dry skin, allergies, asthma and the list goes on.

Here is some light reading: www.catinfo.org, please do read it to understand feline nutrition.
Here's somemore reading for you: http://www.rawfedcats.org/carnivores.htm

I refuse to comment on any more of these threads types of food related threads as I feel I am repeating myself over and over again, like a stuck record.


----------



## TandT2010

spid said:


> What on earth is the point? This is the precise argument I've been having with NBN! £5.95 for 420g BLOODY HELL! NI is £4.25 for 1kg and it's complete!


Good evening all, our pouches are now complete since the end of December. Our breeders tubs when launched back in September is also a complete food. 
The breeder 450g tubs which is what should be compare to the main competitors are £2.26. I hope this help.


----------



## Satori

sante said:


> I am resisting commenting on any dry food threads as this topic, wet food, raw food dry food has been discussed far to often and the answers are there within the pages of the forum, google and the Internet in general.
> 
> Oh I can't help this:
> There has been a lot of research done and a lot of debating as well but it's very simple, cats can't digest grains and wheat and dry food contains a huge amount of carbohydrates which cats don't need, cats can live on a diet containing no carbohydrates. Cats are natural hunters and are carnivores (meat eaters) not herbivores (plant eaters), have you ever seen a cat bring home a bag of dry food, no they bring home mice, pigeons, birds etc. Dry food is responsible for cats getting bladder stones, cystitis, kidney infections/diseases, obesity, dry skin, allergies, asthma and the list goes on.
> 
> Here is some light reading: Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health, please do read it to understand feline nutrition.
> Here's somemore reading for you: Cats Are Carnivores
> 
> I refuse to comment on any more of these threads types of food related threads as I feel I am repeating myself over and over again, like a stuck record.


But then a new cat owner posts and they feed dry and your response changes their approach and - voila, a cat that is likely to die of natural causes rather than dietary ones, because there's nearly always a real cat behind the posts.

Always worth remembering that the search facility on this site is the worst in the known universe so the chances of an new member finding your previous advice is close to zero.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

> Vets are promised the following to promote Hills Science Plan and Royal Canin from the manufacturers: they promise to increase the vets business thus making the vet profits through the sale of Royal Canin and Hills Science Plan (The profits talked about here are from your cats illnesses related to dry food, and most vets know naff all about nutrition). Dry food is full of cr*p and isn't really good for your cat and leads to health complications and this is why vets businesses thrive on promoting Hills Science Plan and Royal Canin and other dry food brands.


I know this is a very old comment now, but I just wanted to say it doesn't apply to all practices.

I'm big on the wet food for cats thing.

Yes, admittedly we do stock food in reception, which yes we do market. Not because of any incentives from manufacturers but because we believe it's the best.

In terms of dry food we only stock Applaws and Orijen. Prescription diet-wise we do use the renal and bladder ones but that's it really.

For wet food we stock Applaws, Nature's Menu and our own frozen meat.

So please don't tar us all with the same brush!


----------



## nicolaa123

Shoshannah said:


> I know this is a very old comment now, but I just wanted to say it doesn't apply to all practices.
> 
> I'm big on the wet food for cats thing.
> 
> Yes, admittedly we do stock food in reception, which yes we do market. Not because of any incentives from manufacturers but because we believe it's the best.
> 
> In terms of dry food we only stock Applaws and Orijen. Prescription diet-wise we do use the renal and bladder ones but that's it really.
> 
> For wet food we stock Applaws, Nature's Menu and our own frozen meat.
> 
> So please don't tar us all with the same brush!


I have to say my vet agrees with grain free wet foods and put mine in the brand he is on now!! Yet others at the practise would see him on dry carb loaded food.

Vets that listen to owners when it comes to food are rare..but if you get one keep them and cherish


----------



## Donut76

dagny0823 said:


> Does anyone else ever notice how, when there's one of these dry food threads, there are a large number of newbies who feel compelled to just post for the first time to say how great dry food is? You have to wonder if Science Plan and Eukaneuba don't pay people to troll internet sites for this very purpose


I was going to say the same ... I don't have a cat I hit this post by mistake & read it coz I'll read absolutely anything lol & tho I've only been here about 8mths (blooming heck that went fast) I can't remember ever seeing so many newbies in one place all more or less (bar a couple) saying the same thing .... I don't believe in coincides

When I did have cats for some reason biscuits never entered my head ... Tho saying that one would only eat kitty cat & the other katty kins .. they never ate the food out of the others bowl ... Strange things


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

nicolaa123 said:


> I have to say my vet agrees with grain free wet foods and put mine in the brand he is on now!! Yet others at the practise would see him on dry carb loaded food.
> 
> Vets that listen to owners when it comes to food are rare..but if you get one keep them and cherish


We have quite a few owners who feed raw for their cats, including a couple of breeders. 

I think it's awesome. :thumbup1:


----------



## Satori

I've had three different vets in the last year because of turnover at the practice and all three are in favour of raw feeding. The latest one said the likely reason my cats feel so silky is the raw diet. They have loads of royal canin in reception but they don't push it.


----------



## josh28

Jesthar said:


> It had _better_ have some additives in it, cooked chicken or tuna on it's own isn't a complete meal...
> 
> And boy that stuff is EXPENSIVE! I'f I'm going to be spending £7 a fortnight on food, it's going to be Nutriment RAW, not tins.
> 
> As to the availability of complete and balanced wet cat foods, there are plenty out there - from the usual low end supermarket brands like Felix, Whiskas, IAMS, Royal Canin etc., to the better, grain free foods (Bozita, Animonda Carny, Butchers Classic etc.) through the high end grain free foods (Grau, Feringa etc.) to the best diet of all for your cat of all, balanced raw food.
> 
> Nope, Applaws beats the Thrive:
> 
> Applaws 80% Chicken
> Dry Chicken Meat (min. 59%), *Dry Potato* (min 4%), Chicken Mince (min. 9%), Poultry Oil (min. 9%, source of Omega 6), Poultry Gravy (min. 3%), *Beet Pulp* (min. 3%), Dry Whole Eggs (min. 3%), Brewers Dried Yeast, Salmon Oil (source of Omega 3), Minerals, Cellulose Plant Fibre (min. 0.4%), Sodium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Seaweed/Kelp, Cranberry, DL-Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Yucca Extract, Citrus Extract, Rosemary Extract.
> 
> Thrive Complete Chicken Dry
> Dried Chicken, (44%), *Rice*, Chicken fat, *Barley*, *Beet Pulp*, *Oats*, 100% Chicken Powder, *Chicken Hydrolysate*, Dried Fish, *Fish Hydrolysate*, Linseed, Minerals, Vitamins, Egg Powder, L-Carnitine, Lecithin, Yucca Extract.
> 
> The Applaws has a higher meat content, and NO grain fillers. Beet Pulp and Dry Potato aren't idea (well, NO dry food is ideal), but necessary evils to bind the product.
> 
> For the Thrive, Rice, Barley and Oats are indigestable fillers you don't want to see in a 'best' cat food; rice is usually considered the least bad grain for what that is worth. Hydrolysates are highly processed/'reclaimed' ingredients, so not optimal either.
> 
> Much of the rest in both of them are widespread additives, I believe. No dry food is ever going to be anywhere near as fgood for a cat as even the cheapest balanced supermarket wet food, though, simply due to the water content of the wet food - cants are designed to get 90%+ of their water from their prey, and as a result have no thirst drive, so they struggle to stay hydrated on a dry diet.
> 
> ~Jes


Hi, just to clarify, the Thrive complete dry food ingredients listed on the pet at home's website doesn't seem to be correct, as the ones listed on the Thrive website are totally diferent. 
_Dried chicken meat (64.5%), fresh chicken (16.5%), chicken fat (6%), sweet potato, potato, chicken gravy (3%), vitamins and minerals, salmon oil.  
Crude Protein 52%
Crude Oils & Fats 22%
Crude Fibres 1.5%
Crude Ash 11%
Omega-6 fats 3.9%
Omega-3 fats 0.7%
Calcium 2.5%
Phosphorus 1.8%
Carbohydrate content 6.5%
_
So it looks better than Applaws, Acana or Orijen.

I wouldn't feed my cats dry food only, and I think a grain free wet diet is much better as other have already said.


----------



## EskimoJo

Shoshannah said:


> I know this is a very old comment now, but I just wanted to say it doesn't apply to all practices.
> 
> I'm big on the wet food for cats thing.
> 
> Yes, admittedly we do stock food in reception, which yes we do market. Not because of any incentives from manufacturers but because we believe it's the best.
> 
> In terms of dry food we only stock Applaws and Orijen. Prescription diet-wise we do use the renal and bladder ones but that's it really.
> 
> For wet food we stock Applaws, Nature's Menu and our own frozen meat.
> 
> So please don't tar us all with the same brush!


'Location: West Midlands'
*heart breaks...*


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

EskimoJo said:


> 'Location: West Midlands'
> *heart breaks...*


Aw bless you!

There are others out there! Search for them and find them!


----------



## Dave the cat

Look at the ingredient list on Thrive wet tinned cat food. I don't think there is a better quality on the market.


----------



## Satori

Dave the cat said:


> Look at the ingredient list on Thrive wet tinned cat food. I don't think there is a better quality on the market.


Then you should look more carefully. Tell me, how much calcium is in there? What do you think of the fat level?

You keep posting this nonsense. I remember your threads from summer last year. Yet, despite several experienced members correcting or challenging you, you never came back with any counterpoint. Now you are back doing it again.

What's your agenda?


----------



## korrok

Satori said:


> Then you should look more carefully. Tell me, how much calcium is in there? What do you think of the fat level?
> 
> You keep posting this nonsense. I remember your threads from summer last year. Yet, despite several experienced members correcting or challenging you, you never came back with any counterpoint. Now you are back doing it again.
> 
> What's your agenda?


All their posts have been shameless advertising for Thrive. Very dodgy. Puts me right off the brand.


----------



## chillminx

I agree Korrok & Satori.  In response to their underhand advertising practices I won't be buying any more Thrive that's for sure.


----------



## Dave the cat

Satori said:


> Then you should look more carefully. Tell me, how much calcium is in there? What do you think of the fat level?
> 
> You keep posting this nonsense. I remember your threads from summer last year. Yet, despite several experienced members correcting or challenging you, you never came back with any counterpoint. Now you are back doing it again.
> 
> What's your agenda?


I'm sorry I didn't ever see any counter reply I am not professional I just love it and I can't see anything wrong with the ingredients. What is wrong with the fat and calcium level? No need to be rude I genuinely am interested but I don't always get sent the thread. I have only feed thrive to my cats and dog because my vet highly recommends it and the have done so well on it.


----------



## Dave the cat

Satori said:


> I don't know where you are getting your information; you say not many wet foods are complete and balanced. What do you know that we don't? Nearly all wet foods I have encountered are complete and balanced. As for the dry, see the post above from Jes. You have emphatically stated that Thrive complete is the best food available. That must mean you have access to an analytical breakdown of its nutritional content and have compared that to all other wet foods. All manufacturers of quality food that I know of share this data openly. Thrive do not but if you have the data please share it and well take the discussion forward based on facts.
> 
> Edit: The most common concern about Thrive complete is that the Ca/P ratio is wrong. Without any data we can only guess. I know where my money would be though.


Hi I am just reading through these old posts after what you said yesterday. I checked it on their web site. I don't understand what's missing from the ingredient list. It looks ok to me but as I said I'm not a professional, are you? Is this just personal research and opinion? The reason I said other brand were not compleat is because loads of them say complimentry on them. I had not realised but my vet told me to check and I was surprised how many are not complete foods. I have no aggender I'm just interested. What is Ca/p ratio


----------



## Dave the cat

Satori said:


> I don't know where you are getting your information; you say not many wet foods are complete and balanced. What do you know that we don't? Nearly all wet foods I have encountered are complete and balanced. As for the dry, see the post above from Jes. You have emphatically stated that Thrive complete is the best food available. That must mean you have access to an analytical breakdown of its nutritional content and have compared that to all other wet foods. All manufacturers of quality food that I know of share this data openly. Thrive do not but if you have the data please share it and well take the discussion forward based on facts.
> 
> Edit: The most common concern about Thrive complete is that the Ca/P ratio is wrong. Without any data we can only guess. I know where my money would be though.


Hi sorry to drive you mad but I just looked at the ingredients on line and they are nothing like what has been quoted on here? Are we talking about the same product? 
Dried chicken meat (64.5%), fresh chicken (16.5%), chicken fat (6%), sweet potato, potato, chicken gravy (3%), vitamins and minerals, salmon oil.  
Vitamins: Vitamin A (as retinyl acetate) 21,635 IU/kg, Vitamin D3 (as cholecalciferol) 1,730 IU/kg, Vitamin E (as alpha tocopherol acetate) 82 IU/Kg.

Trace elements: Sodium Selenite 0.64 mg/kg, Ferrous Sulphate Monohydrate 240 mg/kg, Cupric Sulphate Pentahydrate 19 mg/kg, Manganous Sulphate Monohydrate 90 mg/kg, Zinc Sulphate Monohydrate 267 mg/kg.

Amino acids: L-Carnitine 480 mg/kg, DL-Methionine 1865 mg/kg, Taurine 2385 mg/kg.

I'm so confused honestly please help me understand


----------



## Satori

You keep saying that thrive wet tinned cat food is the best on the market and now you list the ingredients for the dry food. 

If you can provide a solid analysis of why the wet food is so good I would love to engage in a discussion about it. Until then, I'm out.


----------



## Dave the cat

Sorry the header of this thread is regarding dry food.
can I take it that you don't have a problem with the dry ingredients more with feeding dry?

this is off their site

wet food
Composition 
Chicken Breast (75%), Chicken Stock, Sunflower Oil, Vitamins & 

Minerals.Nutritional Supplements 
Per 100g: Vitamin A 2800IU, Vitamin D3 29 IU. Trace elements: Zinc 12mg, Iron 6mg, Manganese 1.4g, Copper 0.6mg, Iodine 0.2mg, Taurine 0.5g.

Mineral g/100g Dry Matter	Chicken Breast
Calcium	1.03
Phosphorus	0.95
Ca/P ratio	1:1
Potassium	0.60
Sodium	0.76

Analytical Constituents 
Crude protein 16%, Crude oils & fats 2%, Crude ash 1.5%, Crude fibres 0.1%, Moisture 80%.

your opinion would be very interesting as I am not seeing the difference between this and some of the other product you favour.

I am genuinely interested


----------



## Satori

As you very well know, the extra nutritional information has been very recently added to the website. It is indeed a welcome move and, if the data are factual, I would regard it as a complete food. Personally, if I were to feed the poultry varieties (I wouldn't feed tinned tuna of course) I would add additional animal fat and a source of omega 3 to bring it closer to a natural diet.


----------



## Dave the cat

Don't get where all this is coming from I love Thrive so whats the big deal, I also use Nutriment depending on what I need and for what animal. I just happened to see the post and mention that I think Thrive is good (it was on a thread about dry brands after all) and has a great ingredients list, then you are all so rude and insulting. Really whats the issue here? I thought this site was going to be a friendly interaction between pet lovers but apparently it's a bitch fest. Please someone tell me how to cancel my account so I stop getting sent this aggressive barrage for my opinion. I'm sorry i didn't do a degree in nutrition, did you?


----------



## Dave the cat

Satori said:


> As you very well know, the extra nutritional information has been very recently added to the website. It is indeed a welcome move and, if the data are factual, I would regard it as a complete food. Personally, if I were to feed the poultry varieties (I wouldn't feed tinned tuna of course) I would add additional animal fat and a source of omega 3 to bring it closer to a natural diet.


I did not know this was new info, why would I? 
I only looked it up because of what you said and I was sure you were wrong because I trust my vet who only stocks thrive and almo nature.

why would you not feed the tuna?


----------



## Satori

Oh puurlease! You didn't say you think Thrive is good, your actual words in the first post you made in this thread were " the wet cat food *is* the best cat food available and complete which most wet foods aren't". When you come in the room shouting this kind of stuff you just set yourself up as an expert. We had every right to expect you could back this up.


----------



## Satori

Dave the cat said:


> why would you not feed the tuna?


Wouldn't want my cats to suffer from heavy metal poisoning thanks.


----------



## Dave the cat

what levels of fat and omega 3 do they?


----------



## chillminx

Calling it a "bitch fest" is surely a bit strong don't you think? 

We are a friendly bunch here on Pet Forum and we welcome newcomers who want to get to know us and our ethics and make a genuine contribution to the discussions. But lately there have been a number of 'newbies' joining the forum whose first post has been the promotion of cat food (usually dry) of one make or another. 

Anyone who has spent any time reading the forum posts here, whether they are a member or not, will be aware of how heartily many (or most) of us disagree, for health reasons, with feeding a dry food diet to cats. Though I appreciate in this instance you were talking about Thrive wet food. 

So for someone to join the forum and immediately start praising a particular cat food could seem suspicious. I am sure you see what I mean. If it was not your intention to promote the sales of this food, then perhaps your post could have been worded differently to avoid the risk of any misunderstanding.


----------



## Dave the cat

Satori said:


> Oh puurlease! You didn't say you think Thrive is good, your actual words in the first post you made in this thread were " the wet cat food *is* the best cat food available and complete which most wet foods aren't". When you come in the room shouting this kind of stuff you just set yourself up as an expert. We had every right to expect you could back this up.


This is getting silly. I didn't realise that anyone on here would be an expert. It was just a punch tag not a life conviction. I obviously read the idea of a forum wrong. I thought we would all throw of views in a pot and discuss them not hang each other by them.

why is there heavy metal poisoning in tuna and is that in all tuna cat food


----------



## Dave the cat

maybe it would be good for you to do an online guide for newbies?
i honestly didn't expect such passionate retort but now you have explained i can see what you mean. sorry for the misunderstanding and the birch fest comment. 
friends?


----------



## Satori

Dave the cat said:


> what levels of fat and omega 3 do they?


I like to get the fat level at low to mid 20's % and so would add a little over 2g of additional fat to a tin of this stuff. This would bring it line with most of the better commercial wet foods. Omega 3, is less clear cut but personally I always aim to serve meals with a n-6/n-3 ratio of less than 2:1 so, where there is no fish oil in a commercial food, I add krill oil at the level of .15 to .2 % depending on the meat source, ymmv etc.


----------



## Satori

Dave the cat said:


> This is getting silly. I didn't realise that anyone on here would be an expert. It was just a punch tag not a life conviction. I obviously read the idea of a forum wrong. I thought we would all throw of views in a pot and discuss them not hang each other by them.
> 
> why is there heavy metal poisoning in tuna and is that in all tuna cat food


You made a very strong unequivocal factual statement actually.

Yes in all tinned tuna. One survey found less in Iranian tuna but it had very dubious funding so I discount it. Just look at the FDA recommendation for safe tinned tuna consumption for humans and extrapolate to the weight of a cat. You'll come out with safe level for cats being about three small tins of tuna per YEAR.


----------



## chillminx

Satori said:


> You'll come out with safe level for cats being about three small tins of tuna per YEAR.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Satori, that's a useful guide.  Shocking how many cat foods have tuna added to them, not always only the cheap ones either.
Click to expand...


----------



## helenback56

What do people think to granatapet dry as a 'better' dry food compared to the reccomended orijen, applaws dry etc? GranataPet Dry Adult - Duck 400g | The Happy Kitty Company
We feed mac's wet food in the evening and due to a lack of cat flap and busy working lives have decided on good quality dry food for the morning. I would love to feed 100% wet but it does spoil quite quickly so this is the best option for nourishing food combined with convenience/minimal food waste. 
Our cat is 8 years old, healthy and active but spent 6months stray over the winter and prior to us adopting her (she was left behind by previous owners of our house) we don't know how well or badly she was fed as a youngster. 
Educated opinions welcome. I am new to being a cat mum do learning as I go.


----------



## ladyfelsham

Hi all - another newbie here. Just wanted to say a big thank you for all the invaluable advice about food - both wet and dry. Orbit, my lovely four year old tabby is Felix brand addicted, also eats Tesco dry food and loves crunchy treats like Dreamies - but for the last six weeks she has been vomiting hours after eating, and I've been desperate to understand what's going on with her. It's not every day and I'd been loath to change her food brand because, like most of your babies, she is very fussy and I've bought a load of cat food, only to give it away because she won't touch it.

The vet says she doesn't have any hairball issues (although she's loving Katalax to 'help things along') and seems perfectly healthy, so suggested I change her food - which is how I found my way here - and Oh My Goodness I had no idea that dry food could be so bad for her! Sorry if TMI but the vomit is always quite (erm) 'firm', and I guess this must be due to a lack of water because of the dry stuff.

You have all really opened my eyes and shown me what I need to do to ensure my lovely girl's long term health. Out goes all the dry food and crunchy treats, and in comes some of the brands you've recommended.

Thanks again - and I'll keep you posted


----------



## zedder

Must say although my cat only has about 40g now of Arden grange she seems too really enjoy it as a snack obviously trying too sort her wet food out at the minute but don't see a reason to stop the dry currently might knock it down to 30g and feed 1 more pouch.


----------



## Erenya

ours get 25g of dry food each a day, but this will be stopping over the next few weeks when we run out. I'll keep getting the lillies nibbles however, we put 20g of the lillies in their food maze and it amuses them for hours


----------



## zedder

Must say it looks weird when I put the dry in the bowl and there seems to be barely anything in the bowl whereas other people I know have the bowls overflowing with the stuff.


----------



## ladyfelsham

One more question for all you fab experts - I've selected a load of wet food from Zooplus, but are Animonda Carny, Grau and Applaws wet *complete* food? I can't see anything on the website which says one way or the other.

I actually feel quite angry at myself for not doing more research earlier. I've been spending loads of time in the kitchen preparing food for myself that is salt/sugar/preservative free and completely failed to do the same for my girl. Oh well, I know now! And hopefully this will be the end of the throwing up for her


----------



## Fnesnug

Animonda Carny and Grau are complete - most variants of Applaws are supplementary, as far as I know.



ladyfelsham said:


> One more question for all you fab experts - I've selected a load of wet food from Zooplus, but are Animonda Carny, Grau and Applaws wet *complete* food? I can't see anything on the website which says one way or the other.
> 
> I actually feel quite angry at myself for not doing more research earlier. I've been spending loads of time in the kitchen preparing food for myself that is salt/sugar/preservative free and completely failed to do the same for my girl. Oh well, I know now! And hopefully this will be the end of the throwing up for her


----------



## Satori

^I'd agree with that. Some of the Applaws pate foods are complete (though not for kittens) but their shredded chicken stuff isn't.

Eta: zooplus nearly always says whether the food is compete or not. You might need to dig around a little.


----------



## SonnysKeeper

sorry noy Important


----------



## Crazy_Cat_Man

Hi guys

I am new to this forum, (but not an infiltrator from a cat food company lol) having joined after stumbling upon this discussion and being educated somewhat.

We have been feeding our cat shadow the usual felix, whiskas and occasional gourmet and encore wet pouches (1 a day) while leaving purina one dry food down constantly.

Since my education we are trying to improve the quality of her food based on what I've read here. We are aiming to start by trying her on natures menu for the wet food, we have also ordered a bag of applaws and a bag of orijen dry food to try. I understand the views on dry food but we don't want to suddenly change her diet too much in one go so may try gradually reducing the dry and introducing an extra pouch of wet in the morning (she currently gets one in the evening)

I have seen the posts regarding issues with too much fish in their diets due to metals which is concerning as she loves her tuna which we have been using in oil to assist with hair balls. Now looking at the orijen there's 3 main dry foods they seem to do - one is fish so we are avoiding due to the concerns over metal. Then they do a red pack which has lots of red meats in. The third is the one we think our cat will like most as it is poultry based primarily- however on inspection of the ingredients it contains fish but at low levels.

What are people's views on this? Should we avoid and just go for the red pack? Or alternate to reduce the fish intake?

I'm worried after feeding the cheaper "cat crack" dried food that we are going to struggle to get her on to the higher grade dry food especially if we move away from her favourite flavour.

Also I have ordered some of the natures menu chicken and turkey treats however looking at the ingredients for this the main ingredient is pork - years ago I was told pork is very bad for both cats and dogs and can cause serious health problems as they can't digest it. What are people's views on this?

Thanks in advance for everyone's time and input.


----------



## chillminx

Hi @Crazy_Cat_Man and welcome. 

You're right that tuna is not good for cats as a regular food, as like other large, deep sea fish it contains high levels of mercury and pesticides. So I would only give her tuna as a very occasional treat.

Omega 3 fish oil is good for cats, so you could add salmon oil for pets (available from pet stores) or buy Nutramega (omega 3 drops) made by Nutravet (only available from the vet) or the exact same thing for humans which you can buy on line as Nutrabiotics:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Supplement...8&qid=1478275436&sr=1-7&keywords=nutrabiotics

The best dry food for cats is one that is grain free and low in carbs. The make that is lowest in carbs, grain free and high in meat protein is Thrive Premium Plus which you can buy from [email protected] Other good makes, (tho not so low in carbs) are Orijen, Applaws, Granatapet, Porta21 etc.

Pork is not bad for cats (or dogs) but is not often found in cat foods. This is because there is so little available on the markets as a side product from the meat industry, the pig being an animal whose meat is mostly all used for human consumption. But I add raw chunks of pork to the raw meals I feed one of my cats, and he loves it.


----------



## TracyH67

Boobub said:


> My 11mo cat is currently on Science Plan-Vet Essentials (for kittens), and I was surprised to hear lots of bad reviews for it. I want my cat to have the best food, so don't want her to be on something (that I pay a lot of money for) knowing it's not doing her any good.
> 
> What are your recommendations? and thoughts on Science plan?





Boobub said:


> My 11mo cat is currently on Science Plan-Vet Essentials (for kittens), and I was surprised to hear lots of bad reviews for it. I want my cat to have the best food, so don't want her to be on something (that I pay a lot of money for) knowing it's not doing her any good.
> 
> What are your recommendations? and thoughts on Science plan?


Hi,
I have just transitioned my two rescue cats who are three next month to nature's menu. My vet recommended as I had over fed them on very rich crap food!!! It took a while, about a month or so, but they have lost weight with beautiful coats and lots of energy!!! I use a pinch of nature's menu dry food with each meal for their teeth and mix a table spoon of water into the food as well. I would thoroughly recommend and they love it!


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## Dark4U2C

For me, this is easy. Carnilove is the best dry food for cats. We did start with applaws due to great reviews, but due to having to have this delivered, I looked in our local pet food shop. I was given great advice with no bias.

My cats have always had scheduled wet food with dry always available. The wet was hilife (great food) until I discovered carny. The dry was applaws until I changed to carnilove. They love them all, but the carnilove is so good that not only is my senior cat eating dry (which he never did before) the younger ones are sated to the point where they are leaving the wet.

I will try them again with hilife in case they are tired of the carny, but they are very healthy and happy with the carnilove. Even the vet said they must eat good stuff as their fur is so soft and healthy.

Carnilove have a great range, too. The reindeer goes down very quickly in this house. They cater for different needs more than most brands, but I would say to try different ones so your cat decides based on taste as they are all good when it comes to ingredients.


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## lorilu

Dark4U2C said:


> For me, this is easy. Carnilove is the best dry food for cats. We did start with apples due to great reviews, but due to having to have this delivered, I looked in our local pet food shop. I was given great advice with no bias.
> 
> My cats have always had scheduled wet food with dry always available. The wet was hilife (great food) until I discovered carny. The dry was applied until I changed to carnilove. They love them all, but the carnilove is so good that not only is my senior cat eating dry (which he never did before) the younger ones are sated to the point where they are leaving the wet.
> 
> I will try them again with hilife in case they are tired of the carny, but they are very healthy and happy with the carnilove. Even the vet said they must eat good stuff as their fur is so soft and healthy.
> 
> Carnilove have a great range, too. The reindeer goes down very quickly in this house. They cater for different needs more than most brands, but I would say to try different ones so your cat decides based on taste as they are all good when it comes to ingredients.


While this is a very old thread, I feel your post needs to be addressed.

I don't understand why you are happy your cats are leaving the wet food. Cats need a wet diet. Your senior cat will be much healthier remaining on a wet diet. All your cats will benefit from the wet food. Please, encourage them to continue to eat it. Their health and well being depends on it.

They need the moisture in the canned foods, especially for kidney and urinary tract health, but for over all health as well. Cats who eat only a dry diet are chronically dehydrated, because cats are meant to eat a diet high in moisture. A cat cannot drink enough water to make up the deficit.


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## chillminx

Dark4U2C said:


> For me, this is easy. Carnilove is the best dry food for cats. We did start with apples due to great reviews, but due to having to have this delivered, I looked in our local pet food shop. I was given great advice with no bias.
> 
> My cats have always had scheduled wet food with dry always available. The wet was hilife (great food) until I discovered carny. The dry was applied until I changed to carnilove. They love them all, but the carnilove is so good that not only is my senior cat eating dry (which he never did before) the younger ones are sated to the point where they are leaving the wet.
> 
> I will try them again with hilife in case they are tired of the carny, but they are very healthy and happy with the carnilove. Even the vet said they must eat good stuff as their fur is so soft and healthy.
> 
> Carnilove have a great range, too. The reindeer goes down very quickly in this house. They cater for different needs more than most brands, but I would say to try different ones so your cat decides based on taste as they are all good when it comes to ingredients.


Hi @Dark4U2C and welcome to the forum 

So...your first post on the forum sounds like you are promoting Carnilove. 

Ingredients of Duck & Pheasant Carnilove cat kibble (used as an example of the Carnilove range of kibbles for cats)

"duck meal (34%), pheasant meal (25%), yellow peas (12%), chicken fat (preserved with tocopherols, 6%), beet pulp (5%), duck deboned (5%), chicken liver (3%), tapioca starch (2%), apples (2%), salmon oil (2%), carrots (1%), flaxseed (1%), chickpeas (1%), hydrolysed crustacean shells (a source of glucosamine, 0,026%), cartilage extract (a source of chondroitin, 0,016%), brewer´s yeast (a source of mannan-oligosaccharides, 0,016%), chicory root (a source of fructo-oligosaccharides, 0,012%), yucca schidigera (0,01%), algae (0,01%), psyllium (0,01%), thyme (0,01%), rosemary (0,01%), oregano (0,01%), cranberries (0,0008%), blueberries (0,0008%), raspberries (0,0008%)."

As you see Carnilove kibble is made up of 59% meat meal. It also contains 12% yellow peas, (a legume). Cats cannot digest legumes as they lack the correct enzyme. Therefore that 12% of the food is just a filler.

Meat meal is made from slaughterhouse processing remnants that are not eaten by humans, cooking these at a high heat, then dehydrating them into a dry material that ends up being kibble. The process is called rendering. Pet food companies use these powdered meat meals for a simple reason, i.e. they are much cheaper than whole meat, poultry, or fish.

Whole meat protein is important for carnivores for efficient digestion.

A study by the University of Nottingham analysed & compared whole freeze dried chicken with rendered poultry meal:










I am not a fan of dry food for my cats at all, for health reasons (kibble content is too high in carbs, too low in moisture). But if I was going to feed them kibble as part of their diet I'd choose a make that uses non-rendered meat as one of the ingredients, does not contain legumes and is low in carbs. Thrive Premium Plus is currently the only kibble on the UK market, (as far as I'm aware), that meets those criteria.

Ingredients of Thrive Premium Plus:

"Dried chicken meat (64.5%), fresh chicken (16.5%), chicken fat (6%), sweet potato, potato, chicken gravy (3%), vitamins and minerals, salmon oil. Vitamins: Vitamin A (as retinyl acetate) 21,635 IU/kg, Vitamin D3 (as cholecalciferol) 1,730 IU/kg, Vitamin E (as alpha tocopherol acetate) 82 IU/Kg. Trace elements: Sodium Selenite 0.64 mg/kg, Ferrous Sulphate Monohydrate 240 mg/kg, Cupric Sulphate Pentahydrate 19 mg/kg, Manganous Sulphate Monohydrate 90 mg/kg, Zinc Sulphate Monohydrate 267 mg/kg. Amino acids: L-Carnitine 480 mg/kg, DL-Methionine 1865 mg/kg, Taurine 2385 mg/kg."


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## Amanda Sturdy

I know this is an old thread but interesting to say the least one of my favourite lisa pierson sayings about dry food is
Please pay special attention to the words *survive* versus *thrive* as there is a very big difference between the two states of health.


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## WillC2

Hello! I know that this is old thread, but it seems that you know more about cat food than me, so...
I have Abyssinian (6 month old) and i have a dilemma: Which of dry, wet or raw food will be good for Yoda? We combine wet and raw food now (Purina for kittens and Northwest for young cats).


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## lorilu

WillC2 said:


> Hello! I know that this is old thread, but it seems that you know more about cat food than me, so...
> I have Abyssinian (6 month old) and i have a dilemma: Which of dry, wet or raw food will be good for Yoda? We combine wet and raw food now (Purina for kittens and Northwest for young cats).


I would recommend you continue to feed wet and balanced raw in rotation, or all raw, if you are comfortable with that.

No kibble.


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## WillC2

lorilu said:


> I would recommend you continue to feed wet and balanced raw in rotation, or all raw, if you are comfortable with that.
> 
> No kibble.


Thank you for the quick reply!


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