# My dog runs off to other dogs and won't come back!



## Amal

I have a 14 month old collie cross lab. When he was younger he would be fine on walks and towards other dogs, then when we got him castrated he became quite anxious around other dogs. When we take him out and let him run around without the lead he is fine we normally chuck the ball for him then he gets it and comes back. Unfortunately when there are other dogs he will ignore it and run after them. We have tried with treats but he isnt very food orientated. He doesnt come back when we call him so we have to go to him. Also when he is on the lead and another dog walks past he pulls towards them and makes this horrible noise like he's being hurt. I hoped that the more it happened he would get used to it but it doesnt seem to be the case. He pulls so much I have to hold onto him with both hands and dig my heels in. Even my partner struggles sometimes. He is not aggressive to other dogs he just wants to play but it really is the most horrible sound ever and quite embarrassing. His recall is very good unless there is another dog. Could somebody help please?


----------



## PennyGSD

There's a lot of it about 

Sorry to be so flippant, but I would spend some time reading the threads on this section of the forum - the main thing that jumps out is that you need to work on your recall, and until it's bomb-proof use a long line or only let him off where it's guaranteed there'll be no other dogs for him to practice ignoring your recall.


----------



## Dogless

I'd use a long line for now with a harness to prevent any damage to your dog's neck. In fact I'd use a harness for normal walking full time if he pulls badly anyway to prevent neck damage.

If you search for "smokeybear" on here she posts a few pages of excellent recall training advice. As for passing other dogs - have you tried to sit her and allow them past or tried keeping his attention on you? Or even turning swiftly away from the dog and marching off as soon as the fixation starts so he isn't rewarded with a meet for his behaviour?

Please, please stop him running up as he might get hurt by a dog that doesn't appreciate it or it could really, really ruin someone else's day - in my own case with my eldest dog it would be massively upsetting.


----------



## DirtyGertie

Dogless said:


> Please, please stop him running up as he might get hurt by a dog that doesn't appreciate it or *it could really, really ruin someone else's day* - in my own case with my eldest dog it would be massively upsetting.


Oh how I do agree with this, especially the bolded bit. Having a small timid dog myself who has been on the receiving end of out of control "friendly" dogs and knocked over by the bigger ones many times, I'm getting to the stage where my normal politeness will soon go out of the window and Mrs Angry is going to take over.


----------



## shadowmare

You need to put the dog on a long line and work on his recall or if you don't want to constantly have him on a line, then put your dog on the lead as soon as you can see another dog in the distance. I have a dog like that and have been working on his recall and impulse control for the last 5-6 months. Although I am able to recall him from another dog (when a random off lead dog comes up to us first) I don't risk my hard work and put him on the lead as soon as I see another dog whether it's on a lead or off lead) it is not fun when a random dog comes flying to your dog especially if it's nervous. It is also not fun (at least to me) go and get your out of control dog.


----------



## Riff Raff

I agree, this is a very common problem. One of the things we have to teach dogs is that not everything in the environment is automatically available to them, and this includes other dogs. Whilst it's good to work on recall exercises, I would also suggest it helps to work your dog around other dogs as a distraction, so that your dog learns to listen to you even when other dogs are nearby. A group training class is useful in this regard.


----------



## lemmsy

I agree with all of the other posters' very wise advise to pop him on a harness-longline combo until his recall is better.

You don't want him charging up to other dogs, especially as a great many will not appreciate this (it's quite rude in dog-dog interaction terms). You don't want him to have a bad experience and get told off, especially if as you say he is anxious since neutering. Similarly, another dog charging into the other dog's space (especially for nervous dogs, who need space) will upset them too.

Why won't my dog come back?


----------



## Dingle

The simple answer is be responsible and keep the dog on a lead until you have adequate training for yourself and your dog


----------



## LaceWing

I&#8217;d work him on a harness as well, but not because he&#8217;ll suffer neck damage. I don&#8217;t think he will at his size and breed. But, because of his size you need leverage and a harness will give you this. It also won&#8217;t come off if he turns he backs up.

I suggest you find an obedience class. He&#8217;ll learn to discipline himself with his classmates and there will be someone there to tell you when you are messing up or doing well.


----------



## sbonnett76

A good book is Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson plus there are loads of good posts on here if you go searching. 

I can't agree more with the comments about how important it is for you to sort this out before you allow your dog off lead around other dogs again. I have a dog reactive dog and I have to say, go absolutely mental at any owner who's dog comes over to mine uninvited particularly when mine is on lead. We have her muzzled for safety, but not all reactive dogs are and if your dog picked the wrong one, you could have a terrible incident on your hands. 

My pet hate, as I'm bellowing out to an owner for them to remove their dog from our space is when they reply with "it's OK, he/she is friendly". Well mine isn't and it isn't OK!

Good luck and I hope you can sort the problem out.


----------



## smokeybear

*Why can't I get a reliable recall?*

'Come' is no harder to train than any other behaviour but in real life it has a huge number of criteria that have to be raised one at a time in order to guarantee success.

Often when puppies are brought home to their new owners this is the first time they have ever been separated from their dam and siblings and so they naturally attach themselves to their new family by following them about everywhere. Owners find this quite attractive and wrongly assume that this trait will continue into adolescence/adulthood, whatever the circumstances. A dangerous trap to fall into…

At some point in time, usually from around 6 - 10 months, depending on the individual, "Velcro" dog will morph into "Bog off" dog (this is especially true of a breed that has been developed to exhibit a high degree of initiative). This is the time when owners suddenly realize that their dog will not recall when it sees another dog/person etc. Not only is this inconvenient but potentially dangerous as the dog could be at risk of injury from a car/train/another dog etc.

*How and when do I start with a puppy?*

My advice is to prepare for this inevitability from the day you take your puppy home. If you are lucky the breeder will have started this process whilst still in the nest by conditioning the puppies to a whistle blown immediately before putting the food bowl down during weaning.

Dogs learn by cause and effect ie sound of whistle = food. If you, the new owner, continue this from the moment your puppy arrives you will lay down strong foundations for the future.

By using the whistle in association with meals/food you need to establish the following criteria:

• Come from across the room. 
• Come from out of sight 
• Come no matter who calls
• Come even if you are busy doing something else
• Come even if you are asleep. 
• Come even if you are playing with something/someone else
• Come even if you are eating

Once this goal has been realized in the house, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the garden.

Once this goal has been realized in the garden, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the park/field etc.

To train this, or any other behaviour:

1. Make it easy for the dog to get it right
2. Provide sufficient reward

Do not expect a dog to come away from distractions in the park until you have trained it to come to you in the park when no diversions are around. Be realistic and manage your expectations; your sphere of influence/control over your dog may be only 20m to begin with, therefore do not hazard a guess that the dog, at this level of training, will successfully recall from 50m or more away. Distance, like every other criterion, must be built up over time.

Some simple rules to follow when training the recall:

• Whistle/signal/call only once (why train the dog to deliberately ignore your first command?)
• Do not reinforce slow responses for the dog coming eventually after it has cocked its leg, sniffed the tree etc (you get what you train!)
• If you know that the dog will not come back to you in a certain situation, go and get him rather than risk teaching him that he can ignore you. (If you have followed the programme correctly you will never put your dog in a position to fail).
• Practise recalling the dog, putting him on the lead for a few seconds, reinforce with food/toy etc and immediately release the dog. Do this several times during a walk etc so that the dog does not associate a recall with going on the lead and ending the walk or being put on the lead with the cessation of fun.
• Eventually, when the behaviour is very strong, alternate rewards ie verbal praise, physical praise, food, toy and also vary the "value" of the rewards, sometimes a plain piece of biscuit, sometimes a piece of cooked liver etc so that you become a walking slot machine (and we all know how addictive gambling can be)!

In my experience recall training should be consistent and relentless for the first two years of a dog's life before it can be considered truly dependable. You should look on it as a series of incremental steps, rather than a single simple behaviour, and something that will require lifelong maintenance.

*What about an older or rescue dog?*

Follow the same programme as outlined above however for recalcitrant dogs that have received little or no training, I would recommend dispensing with the food bowl and feeding a dog only during recalls to establish a strong behaviour quickly.

Your training should be over several sessions a day, which means you can avoid the risk of bloat. It is essential that the dog learns that there will be consequences for failure as well as success.

Divide the day's food ration up into small bags (between10 - 30), if the dog recalls first time, it gets food, if it does not, you can make a big show of saying "too bad" and disposing of that portion of food (either throw it away or put aside for the next day).

Again, raise the criteria slowly as outlined in puppy training.

Hunger is very motivating!

For those of you who believe it unfair/unhealthy to deprive a dog of its full daily ration, not having a reliable recall is potentially life threatening for the dog ……………

*How do I stop my dog chasing joggers/cyclists/skateboarders/rabbits/deer?*

Chasing something that is moving is a management issue. Do not put your dog in a position where it can make a mistake. Again you need to start training from a pup but if you have already allowed your dog to learn and practise this behaviour you may need to rely on a trailing line until your dog is desensitised to these distractions and knows that listening to you results in a great reinforcement. Chasing is a behaviour much better never learned as it is naturally reinforcing to the dog, which makes it hard for you to offer a better reinforcement. If you want to have a bombproof recall while your dog is running away from you then use the following approach:

Your goal is to train so that your dog is totally used to running away from you at top speed, and then turning on a sixpence to run toward you when you give the recall cue.

You need to set up the training situation so that you have total control over the triggers. For this you will need to gain the co-operation of a helper. If you have a toy crazy dog you can practice this exercise by throwing a toy away from the dog towards someone standing 30 or 40 feet away. At the instant the toy is thrown, recall your dog! If the dog turns toward you, back up several steps quickly, creating even more distance between the you and the toy and then throw another toy in the opposite direction (same value as one thrown)..

If the dog ignores you and continues toward the thrown object, your "helper" simply picks the ball up and ignores dog. When dog eventually returns (which it will because it's getting no reinforcement from anyone or anything), praise only. Pretty soon the dog will start to respond to a recall off a thrown toy. You will need to mix in occasions the toy is thrown and the dog is allowed to get it ie you do NOT recall if you want to make sure it does not lose enthusiasm for retrieving.

For the food obsessed dog, you can get your helper to wave a food bowl with something the dog loves in it and then recall the dog as soon as you let it go to run towards the food; again if the dog ignores you and continues to the food, your helper simply ensures the dog cannot access the food and start again. (It is extremely important that the helper does not use your dog's name to call it for obvious reasons).

Gradually increase the difficulty of the recall by letting the dog get closer and closer to the toy/food. Praise the moment the dog turns away from the toy/food in the early stages of training. Don't wait until the dog returns to you; the dog must have instant feedback.

Once the dog is fluent at switching directions in the middle of a chase, try setting up the situation so that it is more like real life. Have someone ride a bike/run/skate past. (It is unrealistic to factor in deer/rabbits however if your training is thorough the dog will eventually be conditioned to return to you whatever the temptation in most contexts).

Until your training gets to this level, don't let the dog off-lead in a situation in which you don't have control over the chase triggers. Don't set the dog up to fail, and don't allow it to rehearse the problem behaviour. Remember, every time a dog is able to practise an undesirable behaviour it will get better at it!

Most people do not play with toys correctly and therefore the dog is not interested in them or, if it gets them, fails to bring it back to the owner.

Play the two ball game, once you have a dog ball crazy. Have two balls the same, throw one to the left, when the dog gets it, call him like crazy waving the next ball; as he comes back throw the other ball to the right and keep going left right so that YOU are the centre of the game and the dog gets conditioned to return to you for the toy. Once this behaviour is established you can then introduce the cues for out and then make control part of the game ie the game is contingent on the dog sitting and then progress to a sequence of behaviours.


----------



## smokeybear

*Courses*

How to Change Predatory Chase Behaviour in Dogs with David Ryan

Saturday 5th July 2014
DOGS TRUST 
Roden Farm Lane
Telford
TF6 6BP
9.30am - 4.00pm
£50.00: which includes lunch
David Ryan

Date: 3 - 6 July 2014

Venue: Wales

Contact Gail Gwesyn Price on Tel. 01686 688920 or [email protected]

*Books*

Line Training for Dogs
By Monika Gutman

Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts 
By Clarissa Von Reinhardt

Stop! How to control predatory Chasing in Dogs
by David Ryan

Teach your Dog to Come When Called
By Erica Peachey

Teach your Dog to Come when Called
By Katie Buvala

Training your Dog to Come When Called
By John Rogerson

The Dog Vinci Code
By John Rogerson

Total Recall
By Pippa Mattinson

*DVDs*

Line Training for Dogs
By Monika Gutman

Really Reliable Recall 
By Leslie Nelson

Training the Recall
By Michael Ellis

Training the Whistle Recall 
By Pamela Dennison

Your clever dog: Getting your dog to come when called 
By Sarah Whitehead

Does your dog whizz back to you as soon as you call his name?

Can you call him to you even when there are other dogs or distractions? Teaching your dog to come to you when you call is the cornerstone of training and the gateway to allowing him more freedom in the park.

If your dog has selective deafness, ignores you in the garden or the park, or would rather play with other dogs than come when you call, this specially designed training session is for you.

Ideal for starting out with puppies or rehomed dogs, and also for dogs that ignore you or are slow to come when called, despite previous training.

Including:
• How to know what's rewarding for your dog and what's not
• Five times when you shouldn't call your dog!
• Using your voice to call versus using a whistle
• What to do if you call and your dog doesn't come to you
The pack contains: A clicker, long line (worth £10), training manual, instructional DVD: 55 mins approx running time including Bonus trick, Bonus Training Session, Intro to Clicker Training, Q & A with Sarah

Dogtrain.co.uk

*Website articles:*

How to use a long line properly here (under information to download)

www.dogspsyche.co.uk

http://www.apdt.co.uk/content/files/training-tips/RECALL.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/reliable_recall.pdf

Deposits into the Perfect Recall Account

List of Reinforcers

http://www.clickerdogs.com/distracti...yourrecall.htm

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/20...call-collapse/

How to Create a Motivating Toy

http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_f...e recall.pdf

Teaching Come | Ahimsa Dog Blog

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-...y-dog-chasing/

Train a

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/te..._to_you_on_cue

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/be...me-when-called

The First Steps to Teaching a Reliable Recall: Kathy Sdao - Bright Spot Dog Training

More on the Reliable Recall: Kathy Sdao - Bright Spot Dog Training

Lesson 6


----------



## leashedForLife

Amal said:


> I have a 14-MO Collie x Lab. When... younger he [was] fine on walks & [around] other dogs, then when we
> got him castrated, he became quite anxious around other dogs.


What form did this 'anxiety' take?

I'm puzzled, as now he's obviously entirely unworried by other dogs, in fact he's DYING to get to 'em & play -
per Ur description.  What changed, & when?


Amal said:


> When we take him out & let him run [off-]lead, he's fine - we normally chuck the ball for him, he gets it & comes
> back. Unfortunately [around] other dogs he'll ignore [the ball] & run after them. We've tried... treats,
> but he isn't very food-oriented.


Is Ur dog anorexic?  If not - if he eats normal meals on a regular basis - then he IS "food-oriented".
The trick is that other dogs trump the food on offer, AT _ THE _ DISTANCE or under the circs - so change the food,
the distance, or the circs to succeed.

but first & foremost, STOP HIM practicing the Great Escape & rejoicing with other dogs! :thumbsup: Every time
that he scores a home-run by taking off & playing with [new or familiar] buddies, the habit gets deeper.
STOP the behavior; then, teach what U want [a reliable off-leash recall] all over again, from the very basics, up.


Amal said:


> He doesn't come... when [called], we have to go [get] him.
> 
> Also when [on-lead, if] another dog walks past, he pulls toward them & makes this horrible noise like he's
> being hurt. I hoped that... he'd get used to [passing dogs], but it doesn't seem to be the case.


the flip-side of DEsensititzation is SENSITIZATION: becoming more & more sensitive to X, the more U're exposed.
 Sounds like he's been super-sensitized & is now simply manic around other dogs - in part cuz he often
gets to take off, & play with them at will, unexpectedly & erratically - random reinforcement creates the most-
intensely powerful form of keeping a behavior in the dog's repertoire.

U need to systematically DEsensitize him, keep him under threshold [at sufficient distance that he's aware,
but un-reactive / capable of learning a new response], & teach him self-control. Incessantly micro-managing
one's dog is no fun for either pet or parent, & once he learns self-control in one context, it's easier to apply it in
other settings / circs / under other stimuli.



Amal said:


> *He pulls so[,] I have to [use] both hands, & dig my heels in*. Even my partner struggles sometimes.


Even the playing-field: dogs are stronger, faster, & have more endurance than puny humans. The average
pet-dog is 3x human-strength, pound for pound. The muscular breeds [bully-types, Rotts, Boxers, Dogos...]
are FOUR times as strong as humans, pound for pound. A 60# pit-type is the dog-equivalent of a 240# halfback,
who can run 30-mph, has faster reflexes, 42 sharp teeth, better agility, & 4-on-the-floor stability, to boot.

Use a FRONT-clip H-harness: any name brand, who cares, as long as it's decently made, & FITS well.
It should fit -snug-, meaning on a smooth-coated dog it DEPRESSES skin slightly & a fine bristle of hair
will be seen at the strap edges; on a double-coat, it FLATTENS the hair under it, & POUFS hair at the edges.
If U tug on the shoulder & girth straps on the same side, one in each hand, it shouldn't SLIP or ROLL much.

Be sure the buckles don't go near the armpits, where the hair is thin & skin is delicate - no pinches, no rubs!

if there's a metal ring joining the straps on the chest, that's bonus; if not, just buy a LOCKING carabiner at any
outdoor-supply or camping store - get an apropos size for the wt of the dog, ASK help from a staffer if in doubt.
Look for "burst strength" rating - they even come in colors, U can match or contrast, & they're not costly.
Run it at an angle under the intersection of the straps, LOCK it & leave it; clip & unclip the leash, don't remove
the carabiner, so that no-one forgets to lock it, clips the leash on, & the dog takes off!  Oops... 

HANDLING:
Keep Ur hands _low_ & wrists + elbows __straight__ - going chicken-winged [bent wrists & elbows]
only weakens U, & puts all the strain on Ur forearms. Instead, use Ur whole torso by rotating at the waist,
to turn the dog toward U - which exerts minimal force on the dog, uses minimal effort by the handler,
& maximizes Ur body-mechanics & leverage.  Don't use brute strength, use cunning. 


Amal said:


> He is not aggro... he just wants to play, but it really is the most horrible sound ever, & quite embarrassing.





Amal said:


> His recall is very good --- *unless there's another dog*.


_"His sit-stay is perfect, unless...
- a bird flies over.
- someone's throwing a ball.
- a jogger passes by.
- someone looks at him.
- ___________________ ."_

Whatever the distraction, U have to *proof, proof, & proof some more,
until the dog can handle that particular distraction - again, by staying under threshold, & slowly
raising criteria, as the dog succeeds *- it goes only as fast as the dog progresses.
.
.


----------



## Hopeattheendofthetunnel

As to his woofing-whining-screeching: Have you already tried distracting him? The instance he start HIS noise, you divert his attention via a novel noise. Doesn't matter what it is as long as he is surprised enough to stop for a moment and think " what the Dickens was THAT????" .

Yodel, or try one of those pocket sized foghorns, or sound like a coockoo clock - all that matters is that he temporaily refocuses. Then, with supersonic speed, immediately reward the temporary silence. And repeat! 

Also kills 2 birds with one stone - tells him "other dogs mean treats & treats start flying when I shut up"

Other dogs: other people may approach it differently but I would go out of my way to team up with fellow dog walkers...and let him PLAY. To his heart's content, off leash and until he is tired. You want a socially competent dog and he ain't going to be sociable, nor competent if he doesn't get the chance to practice this.

YOU can't teach your dog how to be a dog, only another one of his kind can do that. You cannot teach him how to be, or become, skilled at interpreting another dog's body language, only another dog can do that.

Obviously, there is a sensible middle ground. People and their dogs have a right to walk in peace. Some have dogs who are aggressive, some have dogs who are terrified. Amongst the latter, more often than not it isn't the dog that is terrified of other dogs but the owner. As Fluffy MIGHT get hurt. Either way, people have a right to enjoy their walk undisturbed.

But usually there are LOTS of others who have no problem that their dog has a good romp, chase and play. Team up with those and whenever feasible let your boy hone his social skills. 

Really, go out of your way to meet and find play mates. The more, the better. Your lad is young and craving interaction with canine pals. The MORE you facilitate that, the less hyped up he will be when he sees another dog. And being socially skilled will stand him in good stead throughout his entire life. Before you know it he'll be a proper grown-up and his desire to play with unknown others WILL decline.

You had excellent suggestions on how to improve his recall skills, be sure to implement them and practice, practice, practice. Just make sure you allow him to be a dog and practice his intraspecies dog skills as well.


----------



## HLT93

Amal said:


> I have a 14 month old collie cross lab. When he was younger he would be fine on walks and towards other dogs, then when we got him castrated he became quite anxious around other dogs. When we take him out and let him run around without the lead he is fine we normally chuck the ball for him then he gets it and comes back. Unfortunately when there are other dogs he will ignore it and run after them. We have tried with treats but he isnt very food orientated. He doesnt come back when we call him so we have to go to him. Also when he is on the lead and another dog walks past he pulls towards them and makes this horrible noise like he's being hurt. I hoped that the more it happened he would get used to it but it doesnt seem to be the case. He pulls so much I have to hold onto him with both hands and dig my heels in. Even my partner struggles sometimes. He is not aggressive to other dogs he just wants to play but it really is the most horrible sound ever and quite embarrassing. His recall is very good unless there is another dog. Could somebody help please?


First of all you need to train him to get a reliable recall. No dog should be off lead if they can not be recalled, not just for the dogs safety but for other dogs/animals and people. Some people have a fear of dogs so It is very important you can get your dog back quickly if a person appears etc. I would get a long line and start practicing recall on this, you can also practice recall in the house and garden where there are less distractions to start with. There are lots of great videos on youtube about recall. Once you have got a reliable recall you can let him off lead and not have to worry. It will take time but as long as you are being consistent it will work.

My dog is the same when on lead, a lot of dogs get very anxious on lead as they can not get away if needed so will exhibit defensive behaviour. With mine as soon as I see another dog I will try and get him to focus on me, I will feed him treats constantly until passed the other dog, even if this means crossing the road or having to sit and wait until they have passed. The key is distraction, and trying not to react to the bad behaviour but praising for good, calm behaviour. Mine have got a lot better, and with most dogs now will happily walk past being given just one or two treats.

Also if you are finding it hard to control him then perhaps look in to other leads which will give you more control as this is essential to prevent any incidents.

You will get there in the end, it takes time and a lot of training.


----------



## Linda Weasel

Didn't have time to read all the posts here, so just in case someone didn't say it...if your dog is part collie he may well like to play tug rather than just ball-chase. My BC prefers tug games with me to anything in the whole world and this makes him easy to recall cos he'll leave anything for his tug. He wasn't always this oriented, and I had to encourage him to play this way cos to start with he thought it was wrong to try to take something from me.

If you do this, keep control of the toy and instill a good 'leave it' command.


----------

