# Alternative to Orijen Puppy? TERRIBLE wind



## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

I've been having problems with our 13 week old SBT ever since we've had him. He's had very loose stools and blood in his poo and has been on a rice & chicken diet twice. 

After all this I've finally figured out it was my own fault due to overfeeding. I've almost weaned him off the rice & chicken onto Orijen Puppy but his wind is unbearable and the more Orijen I introduce the more frequent it gets. His poo is a lot firmer now though. I was feeding him Barking Heads originally but I'm reluctant to go back onto that in case that was a cause of his loose stools.

Can anyone recommend a good kibble for pups with a sensitive stomach? I'm stressing because I feel like he's not getting all the nutrients from his food and isn't developing as well as he should.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Orijen, although a fantastic food, is very rich - the six fish variety may be more delicate on the tummy than the meat based one, but some dogs just can't tolerate Orijen very well unfortunately. If the bad wind persists a few days after he is 100% on Orijen, then you might want to think about changing again - Fish4Dogs is a fish and potato blend, which is generally considered very good for dicky bellies, so that may be worth a shot. 

Soaking kibble in warm water prior to feeding is supposed to make it easier to digest, so this may be worth trying too if you are currently feeding it dry. Lastly - please bear in mind that puppies do not need puppy food at all, adult kibble is just fine.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I have used Natural Dog Food Company in the past when Kobi was a Pup, and Ive mention it too a few people who have dogs with sensitive tums and its worked.

Here is a link so you an have a look and make up you own mind 
The Natural Dog Food Company  where good health comes naturally

Otherwise maybe try him on a more Natural type wet perhaps.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

My dogs eat Wainwrights Salmon and Potato! My puppy had a poorly tummy when i got her, she was being fed on Eukanuba before and my other dogs were already on Wainwright. I took her to the vets and wormed her to be on the safe side and slowly changed her over to WW Salmon and potato and by the end of the week she was completely fine and hasn't had a poorly tummy since.


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## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

SixStar said:


> please bear in mind that puppies do not need puppy food at all, adult kibble is just fine.


Is this true Sixstar? What's different, just the bite size or something?

Thanks for the suggestions guys, Wainwrights looks favourite at the moment as there's a Pets At Home near to me which stocks this. I was wary of getting him on Orijens as I could only purchase online.

The only problem is when I opted for the Orijen a week or so ago my missus was adament for us to choose Wainwrights. A friend of hers had similar problems and Wainwrights sorted her pup out. I opted for Orijen because it's supposed to be the better food, now if we try Wainwrights and it works I'll have the old smug 'I told you so!' 

Oh well, so long as little Trev can settle on something that agrees with him. I'll get him onto 100% Orijen first then if his wind is still this bad I'll get some new food the weekend. I may look into wet food instead, I best get searching old threads first on the old Wet Vs Dry debate...


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Conalex said:


> Is this true Sixstar? What's different, just the bite size or something?


Yes, pretty much! Puppy food comes in little pieces and adult food comes in bigger pieces - and then the manufacturers like to charge much more the miniature kibble and 'word' puppy printed on the bag  It's just a money making gimmick!

Years ago there was no puppy food and pups did just fine - and when I have a pup, they're fed no different to my adults (raw fed) 

I wouldn't choose Wainwrights personally unless you go for either the salmon & potato or the turkey & veg - food with grain in rarely does anything to help funny tummies. Would you consider raw?


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## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

SixStar said:


> I wouldn't choose Wainwrights personally unless you go for either the salmon & potato or the turkey & veg - food with grain in rarely does anything to help funny tummies. Would you consider raw?


Is Wainwrights a poor food? I would've gone for the Salmon & Potatoe if I went for that. I have no issues with paying more for a better food but including CavalierOwner's it's had a couple recommendations...

I have tried the BARF diet before with my last dog (who now lives in Ibiza with my ex ). But to be honest for me the cons outweighed the pros. My last dog was a fussy eater which didn't help but he really wouldn't take to it. Plus the hassle of raw food really put me off, I was always forgetting to defrost it.

Both me and the missus work but thankfully I have family & friends on my Cul De Sac who dog sit Trev and feed him when we can't . So a raw diet would become a bit of an inconvenience for them. I thought maybe a wet food would be a balance between the two, plus it might be more enjoyable for Trev to eat??


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Conalex said:


> Is Wainwrights a poor food? I would've gone for the Salmon & Potatoe if I went for that. I have no issues with paying more for a better food but including CavalierOwner's it's had a couple recommendations...
> 
> I have tried the BARF diet before with my last dog (who now lives in Ibiza with my ex ). But to be honest for me the cons outweighed the pros. My last dog was a fussy eater which didn't help but he really wouldn't take to it. Plus the hassle of raw food really put me off, I was always forgetting to defrost it.
> 
> Both me and the missus work but thankfully I have family & friends on my Cul De Sac who dog sit Trev and feed him when we can't . So a raw diet would become a bit of an inconvenience for them. I thought maybe a wet food would be a balance between the two, plus it might be more enjoyable for Trev to eat??


That's a shame raw isn't do-able for you, but I understands it's not for everyone.

No, Wainwrights isn't a poor food - it's just a huge jump down from Orijen, and alot of the recipes are based on rice - if you went for the salmon & potato one like you said you would though, that should be fine  its just cereal heavy foods you should be avoiding when dealing with funny tummies.

Most dogs do find wet food more palatable than dry, and there are plenty of good ones to choice from - Naturediet being an excellent brand, and theres lots of flavours too. I must say personally that a 100% wet diet doesn't sit quite right with me - it must be very dull to eat just soft, mushy food - so if you do go for that, I'd recommend adding a handful of kibble maybe just for a bit of crunch, or provide hard biscuits/chews as treats


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

The main reason I started feeding Wainwrights salmon and potato was because 1 of my dogs has allergies! He does really well on it, no itching or fur loss anymore, and 1 of my other dogs used to be an extremely fussy eater before she was spayed and this was the only food she didn't mind eating. All 3 of my dogs have lovely coats and none of them have had an upset tummy at all since feeding them Wainwrights, and they have been eating it for just over a year now.


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## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

Hmm, now I'm confused.

I've just had a little read up on Naturediet and I like the sound of that. Seeing as my pup has had a dodgy tum since we've had him (not helped by me possibly over feeding) a switch to wet might make it easier for him to digest his food? I could always mix in a quality kibble for evening meals to add variety.

It's not been ideal for him though, in the space of 5 weeks his diet has gone like this:

Sneyds Puppy > Barking Heads > Rice & Chicken > Barking Heads > Rice & Chicken > Orijen > Possibly a wet food??


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

Sort of off-topic. I recall seeing an advert for an American kibble pet-food years ago who's USP was that, "...this food produced reduced stool."

Whenever I thought about it I believed that the biscuits were aerated to bulk them out, much like soft scoop ice-cream is now days, and that the secret of reduced stool just meant the food resulted in extra air in the intestine, thus reduced stool = extra fart ! 


Our raw fed dogs have seldom farted.


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## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

I'm pretty confident that eventually I would find a kibble that agreed with him and stopped the wind, but at such a crucial stage of his development I'm just panicking that he's not getting the most from his food. Therefore the sooner I get him settled on something the better.


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## Kc Mac (Jul 26, 2011)

One of my staffies has really sensitive digestion and over the years have tried a fair few foods 

The best food I found to suit her was Fish4Dogs small bite kibble! I can't recommend it highly enough 

The best wet food for her was Naturediet  although Wainwrights wet is a close second. 


Sorry to throw a spanner in the works  but I would not feed Wainwrights kibble to a sensitive dog as they have quite a lot of barley in . I have heard of a few dogs reacting to it, including my friends bull terrier


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## the melster (Mar 20, 2010)

We had the same problem with our 2 and the terrible output  We switched to Acana and have had no problems since.


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## Sarahnya (Oct 27, 2008)

Conalex said:


> I've been having problems with our 13 week old SBT ever since we've had him. He's had very loose stools and blood in his poo and has been on a rice & chicken diet twice.
> 
> After all this I've finally figured out it was my own fault due to overfeeding. I've almost weaned him off the rice & chicken onto Orijen Puppy but his wind is unbearable and the more Orijen I introduce the more frequent it gets. His poo is a lot firmer now though. I was feeding him Barking Heads originally but I'm reluctant to go back onto that in case that was a cause of his loose stools.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good kibble for pups with a sensitive stomach? I'm stressing because I feel like he's not getting all the nutrients from his food and isn't developing as well as he should.


Our Shiba had the same problems on Orijen but we persisted with feeding it and it eventually cleared up, I only remember having this problem when he was a pup.


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## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks for the input guys, a bit more food for thought (no pun intended ) 

Good to hear your pup settled eventually Sarah, if I had the choice I'd stick with Orijen as it's a very good food. If the adult food is just the same I may look into the Orijen Fish as an alternative to the puppy food I have. I think it's a good idea I don't rush into anything as already mentioned his diet has been unstable to say the least. 

I fed him this morning and he went straight out for a poo (nice and solid). But then about 20 mins later when we went over the park for a walk he had a very loose stool which has me worried a bit. 

I just wish it would settle down..


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Oh dear, I feel your dilema. Too many changes is asking for trouble but without change you cant find the right food.

I had this with my little pup and went thro lots of kibbles (and lots of upsets) before putting her onto wet food. Altho Naturediet is my preferred wet, I have to say that Wainwrights trays were a godsend and suited her best during this time.

Once we had reached the "upset" stage I was making fortnightly trips to the vets for repeat meds. She would get better but within a fortnight, back down again. Until I found Bionic Biotics. It was our way forward and I would recommend it to anyone. Probiotic for Dogs | Dog digestion / skin + coat supplement | Pooch and Mutt ([email protected] sell it)

In your shoes, I think I would be inclined to try the BB with your Orijen (if you want to stick with it). You may find BB supports and heals her tum so that she is fine with it. If so, once you've used the pouch, you could try her without and see how she goes on Orijen. If she starts to go downhill, re-introduce the BB but consider changing her to wet using the BB to help the transition.

Heidi is 3 next month. I no longer use BB but I had to admit defeat with kibble and Heidi is on wet food. I tried a mix of kibble and wet but her tum doesnt like kibble.

I hope you soon find a way forward with your little one


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## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Oh dear, I feel your dilema. Too many changes is asking for trouble but without change you cant find the right food.
> 
> I had this with my little pup and went thro lots of kibbles (and lots of upsets) before putting her onto wet food. Altho Naturediet is my preferred wet, I have to say that Wainwrights trays were a godsend and suited her best during this time.
> 
> ...


Excellent! Thanks for the link Hedi's Mum, I've just reserved a bag of this at my local Pets At Home. I finally feel like I'm doing something positive!. 

I haven't been to Pets At Home before, can you take dogs into the store? You can at Jollyes but I didn't want to take Trev into town if I have to leave him in the car...

I'll look at what kind of food they stock there too. Jollyes is closest to me but they only stock a handful of half decent kibble off the shelf. Hopefully Pets At Home have a better choice.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Conalex said:


> Excellent! Thanks for the link Hedi's Mum, I've just reserved a bag of this at my local Pets At Home. I finally feel like I'm doing something positive!.
> 
> I haven't been to Pets At Home before, can you take dogs into the store? You can at Jollyes but I didn't want to take Trev into town if I have to leave him in the car...
> 
> I'll look at what kind of food they stock there too. Jollyes is closest to me but they only stock a handful of half decent kibble off the shelf. Hopefully Pets At Home have a better choice.


You're v welcome and I hope you find it helps. Everyone I've recommended it to have found it does.

Yes, you can take your dog into [email protected], have it weighed too if you want I dont think [email protected] have a much better stock of kibble tbh. They used to do Fishmongers which is v similar to Fish4Dogs but more expensive. Their Advance Sensitive isnt bad but the other varieties in the Advance range contain Maize. There will probably be less choice in their puppy range. Applaws isnt bad but I would be inclined to stick with your Orijen (you wont get better if it suits your pup). You could always pick up a box of Wainwrights wet trays (cheaper by the box and you can return any you dont use if your pup doesnt get on with it for a full refund/exchange).

You may find a chunk of WW wet watered down to a gravy with Orijen mixed in is the way to go. Definitely make any changes v slowly.

Cant wait to hear how you get on


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

I've probably missed something here but isn't blood in poo something you should ask the vet about? I'm new to dog ownership, so I'm interested if it is something that is common :huh:


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## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

Kiwi said:


> I've probably missed something here but isn't blood in poo something you should ask the vet about? I'm new to dog ownership, so I'm interested if it is something that is common :huh:


I have been to the vets with him a few times after seeing the blood. He was prescribed some kind of antibiotic in the form of a brown paste and also Noroclav. These didn't really help to be fair.

We saw two vets on different occasions and neither were over concerned about the blood. He is perfect in himself and has been steadily gaining weight so the blood was more than likely down to excessive passing of stool. A little tear or laceration inside his back passage...

It's cleared up now thankfully.


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## astra (Sep 27, 2010)

I started off with James Welbeloved, then went over to Barking Heads, tried Natures Diet and Natures Menu, Wainwrights wet trays not the cans were a success, so I used it as a mixer to try and use up the kibble, but he was eating the wet and spitting the kibble out. 

I then tried Orijen Regional Red, with some success, but had to keep the Wainwrights to encourage him to eat it up, which defeated the object of buying expensive grain free food, then Acana Lamb which was a big no no.

After nearly 18 months I've finally found the food that my boy absolutely loves. Its the Orijen Fish, he was a little runny and windy for about 7 - 10 days but he's fine now, and I did read that it can take up to 6 weeks to adjust to the food, so I wasn't to worried. I've read on here to feed the lower quantity, it looks such a tiny portion, that I really have to stop myself from throwing a little more in lol. I put in some water and leave it for about 15 minutes to soak.

I have now been able to stop adding the Wainwrights, although I will keep a couple in as they're great if Rio get's an upset tummy in the future.


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

It took a few months before my lot got adjusted to Orijen, then the bad smells stopped


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## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

I so so so wanted to stay on the Orijen but after this afternoon I had to go get him something else. Trev had been on his own all morning so as I was only in the office on my own I picked him up and took him to the office....

Oh My God!!! The wind was unbearable, the worst smell ever and literally every 5 mins. The office now needs fumigating.

I was going to [email protected] anyway for the biotic stuff so figured I'd decide what food to change him to when I got there. I had read on their website that they stocked Fish$Dogs but they don't at my store. It was either a toss up between Wainwrights wet tray or Salmon & Potatoe Kibble. I opted to keep him on Kibble.

I'll see how he goes over the next few days and hopefully his wind now goes. The Wainwrights blows right up to double the size when water is added, totally the opposite to Orijen, less water on the next feed...


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Sorry to hear the exhaust fumes got a lot worse. Hope the Salmon and potato does the trick.


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## bt jake (Aug 19, 2011)

Hey, doggy wind is not nice:nonod:! Jake had been on barking heads with no prob but managed to get a large bag of James Welloved at a cheap cost! But the wind has been awful, so bad that I think we will bin the majority of the bag & have already gone back to the barking heads. I blame myself for trying to save a few quid. I think it just depends on the dog, whats right for one is not for another, just trial & error.  x


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## Conalex (Jan 4, 2012)

Just thought I'd update the thread for those interested or researching at a later date...

After just 2 days on Wainwrights Salmon & Potato (plus the probiotic supplement) I decided to change Trev's food yet again!  He just didn't like the salmon flavour, he'd gone from attacking his food like it was his last meal to leaving half of it in his bowl. TBH I'm not surprised as it didn't smell the best when a little warm water was added!  Add to that his poo was still sloppy I just decided to change altogether.

I went to [email protected] yesterday morning and bought a 12 pack of Wainwright's Turkey & Rice trays. I started him on that straight away as I figured his stomach has been bad since day 1 and couldn't really get any worse. I have also continued adding the probiotic. Literally within a couple feeds his poo was hardening up and at the moment it's as good as it's been since we've had him. Result 

I've come to the conclusion that his stomach was having trouble digesting the kibble, especially as 100g of kibble with water added was twice the size in volume as 100g wet. I guess what you must remember is that all dogs are different, you just need to find what's right for your dog.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Thats great news!!!

At least you tried with the kibble but your pups health is more important than succeeding.
It was the same for me with Heidi and I found WW trays a blessing. You'll probably find you can give a change of flavours too.

Once Trev's tum is really settled and he's been on the trays a while, you may want to try kibble again, or at least use up your Orijen.
I found that Heidi could tolerate a small amount but anything over 50% or less on a v regular basis and we had problems. A couple of meals a wk mostly wet with a bit of kibble were ok but I threw in the towel because there was no point persevering with something that obviously didnt suit her.

It may not be the same for Trev, but if it is, there's nothing wrong with the good quality wets available.
I feel wet food is much more natural 

Hope Trev continues to do well


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