# smacking



## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

do you think parents should be allowed to smack their children again? 

I am not talking about abuse or regular beatings but a smack on the bum or slap on the back of the hand for being naughty/cheeky.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2013)

A smack never did me any harm.

I think parents should be able to chastise their children, how they see fit.

By that, I don't mean regular beatings, or abuse.

I mean a short, sharp smack on the legs etc.


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

no . do you think people should be able to smack there partners/friends if they do something they don't agree with?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Only as a reaction to something potentially life threatening.

It would then have the desired shock effect


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

I was never smacked as a child and I think I turned out ok

My daughter who is 11 has never been smacked ..and she is a very well mannered child ...most of the time 

I just don't see the need for it tbh . 

My husband on the other hand , said it never did him any harm.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I didn't realise they'd been stopped. Is it now actually illegal?

Mine got a very occasional tap/slap on the back of their hand or legs but only after been told several times not to and why they shouldn't do it and what they were doing would be a danger to themselves or others

My son responded to reason so don't remember smacking him my eldest was stubborn so got a rare smack and my youngest was so laid backvif you asked her to stop she'd just shrug and do something else


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

I never used to care either way... I always said "it never did me any harm" (only ever got the odd smack as a child) and didn't see the big deal.

Now I'm against smacking. I don't agree with using violence in any form, and spend so much time promoting positive reinforcement, humane training methods etc for animals - why should kids get treated worse? Plus, I can say without doubt that the best behaved kids I've ever met were ones whose parents didn't smack, or even shout.

Not planning on ever having kids myself though, so although I don't like it I'm not going to get into rows with parents over what they choose to do.


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

hippymama said:


> no . do you think people should be able to smack there partners/friends if they do something they don't agree with?


Does everyone else not do that?


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

Nope i don't agree with parents hitting their children. 
all the children i know that have been smacked are the worst behaved, at brownies they just do not listen and obviously their parents aren't there and we aren't going to hit them so they act up and misbehave. 
i was never hit and i think i grew up well


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

I was threatened with it as a kid and that was enough to keep me in line.

I have slapped my niece on the hand when she went to touch the stove while it was on. I feel that that was better than her getting her hand burnt and she has never done it since.

I don't condone beatings or abuse but I think there are times when a smack is justified.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Yes, I think it should be allowed. A small tap that does not leave any marks never did me any harm, and if it's another tool for parents to utilise to teach/ discipline their child then it's better not to ban it IMO.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

As common everyday practice, I don't agreed with smacking children. It isn't a way to teach children proper behavior. What would happen if I smacked another adult in the bum or leg?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Be interesting to see what would be said if the thread was posted regarding dogs or cats in the dog/cat chat sections 

:huh:


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

I have smacked my older children in the past....I'm going back 20 years.....but my 6 yr old doesn't get smacked. I don't believe in hitting your children anymore since I have found better ways to show them. I didn't have children so I could slap them. 
I will now try to explain things to them.


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## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

My parents were both hit as children, it was seen as normal and acceptable to do so, they went on to hit my brothers when they felt it was necessary and used the line "well it never done us any harm"... if that were the case then why do they bring it up from time to time with bitterness, hurt and anger in their voices?

I have 5 brothers so often saw them being hit, my sister and I were never hit because my dad believes it is wrong to hit girls. I can honestly say that it was horrible to witness my brothers being hit so I can only guess how they feel about it. 

All my brothers are often stroppy, moody and angry, and have gotten into trouble whereas my sister and I have been a lot less hassle for my parents.

When I had my boy, I promised myself that I'd do things differently, I'd teach him the difference between right and wrong by setting a good example and explaining things through, just generally being open and non threatening, oh and consistent. He was as good as gold, I never had any trouble with him. I watched my friends struggle with their children, resorting to threats and slaps to try to control them.. they couldn't grasp that their children would respond better to positive reinforcement and constantly compared my good boy to their little terrors. 

As someone else pointed out, the overwhelming majority here would not support or accept the hitting of dogs so why on earth would hitting a child be ok? Positive reinforcement all the way.


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## HappyWag (Aug 25, 2012)

I don't agree with smacking, I think there are better ways than physical violence to guide a child.
I have witnessed adults slap a child around the head in public in the past! If they do this in public dread to think what some children suffer in the home 
I think a small tap like one poster said for stoppping a child being burned is different, as that was more of a protective thing, and was done in a different way than people who continually think it is ok to hit children. (hope that makes sense)


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

There is a world of a difference between a short, sharp smack and having six shades of sh!t walloped out of you. Believe me, I know!!!

There us nothing wrong with the former - if you watch animal mothers training their young, they often give them a cuff when they are misbehaving. You don't see them sitting their cubs down and having a 'chat' with them do you....  If a child is being particularly stubborn & wilful, then sometimes the quick smack on the bottom or hand is enough to make them behave.

The latter option, however, is absolutely NOT acceptable and will only result in your child growing up to resent you. Especially when the damage done to young bones manifests itself in later years. 

The problem society faces is trusting parents to know when a smack crosses the line into abuse.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

paddyjulie said:


> Be interesting to see what would be said if the thread was posted regarding dogs or cats in the dog/cat chat sections
> 
> :huh:


Could never agree with hitting animals. They do not understand what you were trying to explain to them in the first place, a child does.

As a last resort, when you have reasoned and explained, certainly a smack usually gets through.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I received a few smacks as a child. I feel I deserved them at the time (I had really gone too far). I don't believe it did me any harm and I feel no resentment.
It hasn't turned me into a violent husband-beater or child-beater.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Nothing wrong with having the option to slap when necessary. Never had to but I at least I have the option. "You've disappointed me" normally works extremely well.

The main trouble I find isn't the To slap or not argument. It's the Nanny state dictating how we should handle our kids when they are not the ones responsible when things go wrong.


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

Yes I do! 

It might make half the brats you see nowadays have some respect and behave. 

My dad used to be the one that clipped us around the ear (very rarely only when we totally deserved it) - I had great respect for him and still do.  It didn't do us any harm and trust me - we deserved it :laugh: 

Mum was soft as muck with us as kids and we could run rings around her


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

yes....absolutely...
it really helps to stop some silliness or plainly dangerous atcsetc...
I do not agree with smacking very young kids though! younger than three, who may not have enough control or understanding...

or older than about seven-eight who can be reasoned with much more efficiently...

I always use my voice first obviously , if you must stop some hysterics quickly and words are ignored???
(last time lil cheeklet decided he will get into strop and not get dressed , but mess up with toys instead on school morn...and ignored all reminders...one tap on the bottom - and he got it that I am now serious.. so he got quickly ready and all moodiness evaporated...he trotted happily to school...)


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

I was smacked (a lot ) as a child by my mum but I never resented her for it, (well maybe a little at the time ) Really resented my dad though as he used to use his fists to threaten and that was wrong, never really got along with him much 

I have 3 children and they have had the occasional smack on the legs, not very much though as they were generally well behaved kids and never really caused any hassle. My youngest was 3 1/2 when she last had a slap on her legs as she was causing mayhem in the supermarket and wouldn't listen to reason. She kept running off whilst we were trying to shop, sitting on shelves and jumping on the large trolleys that they use to stack the shelves with. As a last resort when we got to the check out she got two smacks on her leg and there was a few tears and then she sat at the end of the check out and behaved whilst we put the shopping through and that's the last time I smacked her and she's 12 now. 

I usually find words are enough or taking something away from her (like her computer at the minute because she won't go to bed at night and won't bring her washing down so after several threats it's been taken away from her till further notice  )


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

paddyjulie said:


> ]*I was never smacked as a child and I think I turned out ok*[/B]
> 
> My daughter who is 11 has never been smacked ..and she is a very well mannered child ...most of the time
> 
> ...


Well I was and I turned out aright as well.

A quick sharp smacker at the time, on the legs or hand I see no problem with .

Sometimes it the only thing some kids understand.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Also: all kids are different .. some more defiant or naughty than others...I never had a need to smack my stepgirl ..she was a very good girl..and hardly ever my girl - just a slight tap to stop the torrent of complaints and get her to let me talk!
boys though were different - but possibly only the oldest ever got a proper slap and definitely hard earned! 



so , paddyjulie - if you have one..and it happened to be a gentle soul......call yourself lucky!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

I have smacked my children, not hard enough to leave marks etc but it hasnt hurt them, they are lovely kids and well behaved when at school and out in public etc. 

I do prefer to shout if they are scrapping upstairs i will shout up to them to stop or ill be taking toys away etc


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## Sal1972 (Mar 22, 2013)

harley bear said:


> I have smacked my children, not hard enough to leave marks etc but it hasnt hurt them, they are lovely kids and well behaved when at school and out in public etc.
> 
> I do prefer to shout if they are scrapping upstairs i will shout up to them to stop or ill be taking toys away etc


Ditto mine 

I haven't had the need to really smack my kids yet (age 9 and 5); putting them in time-out and the threat of toys/treats being taken away seems to have done the trick . . . so far anyway


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Sal1972 said:


> Ditto mine
> 
> I haven't had the need to really smack my kids yet (age 9 and 5); putting them in time-out and the threat of toys/treats being taken away seems to have done the trick . . . so far anyway


My eldest two are 3+4 and because they bounce off eachother so much its a challenge to get them on the 'thinking spot' for more than a minute...little buggers love to wind eachother up!


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

I cant stand this new namby pamby way of bringing up children.. example 
Kid in shop jumping on the display full of vacum packed/part bake bread..

mum says 'come on get down please'
kid ignores her
'come down please'
kids carries on jumping screaming 'no no no'

Then kid falls off , cries, gets picked up cuddled and mum walks off.. No mention of all the bread laying scattered on the floor, no mention of the waste the cost or the damage..



Me.. Id have been horrified if my children have even thought to behave like that in public, if they had Id have ordered them down no if buts or maybes about it they would have been made to clean up apologise and offer to pay for any damage or waste incurred by the shop.

Then again my children were bought up with manners and respect.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

dorrit said:


> Me.. Id have been horrified if my children have even thought to behave like that in public, if they had Id have ordered them down no if buts or maybes about it they would have been made to clean up apologise and offer to pay for any damage or waste incurred by the shop.
> 
> Then again my children were bought up with manners and respect.


My mother used to say that if I'd had kids they would have joined the army for a holiday!!!!  

And that was from a young age when I used to take charge of the Sunday School classes. They never messed about on my watch. 

Even Dereks (then) 6yr old son soon came round to my way of thinking when he would visit. I never had to raise my voice to him but always managed to convey my discipline in a tone of voice that would not be argued with. He tried it a few times in the beginning but soon realised the error of his ways.

To this day (he's now 13) if he is being a pain, I only have to say his name in this tone of voice and he stops immediately. 

I am glad to say that he is a lovely lad and Derek has never had to smack him but he has been told that if Dad ever catches him taking drugs or getting into 'that' kind of trouble, he will have his lights punched out faster than he can blink!!!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

I tend to use 'the look' if were out...you know the one where they instantly crawl up their own backsides when they meet your gaze


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I was never smacked as a child and my Mum & Dad also didn't ground us so we sort of had no punishment for our actions. I was a horrible teenager.... I think if they'd used some form of punishment I wouldn't have been so out of control.

I don't disagree with smacking but I disagree with those mothers or fathers who smack their children in public or smack their children out of anger. If you smack your child out of anger then it say's a lot about why your child is so badly behaved.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2013)

No. I do not hit or shame or threaten my children for the exact same reasons I do not use pain or fear to train dogs. It is unnecessary, ineffective, and often detrimental to the overall relationship.

For those interested in resources for parents who want to move beyond punitive discipline, there are numerous resources on the web, including forums 


"If you manipulate, coerce and bully your children, you will have no power at all. If you lead with humility, gentleness, and by example, you will need no power at all." 
~ William Martin


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I don't condone beatings or abuse but I think there are times when a smack is justified.


Who is to decide which is which? What I might consider reasonable discipline you would consider abuse. I don't understand how violence could ever be considered acceptable. If some guy hit his girlfriend, just a sharp slap for the shock value, because she wouldn't do as she was told you'd all be screaming for him to be imprisoned. Nobody agrees with hitting adults or animals so why is a child less worthy?


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

harley bear said:


> I tend to use 'the look' if were out...you know the one where they instantly crawl up their own backsides when they meet your gaze


ahhh the look, my mum was and still is a master :lol: I never needed a smack the look was enough :lol:


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

havoc said:


> Who is to decide which is which? What I might consider reasonable discipline you would consider abuse. I don't understand how violence could ever be considered acceptable. If some guy hit his girlfriend, just a sharp slap for the shock value, because she wouldn't do as she was told you'd all be screaming for him to be imprisoned. Nobody agrees with hitting adults or animals so why is a child less worthy?


Its not about smacking just because they do not do as they are told..an adult would know what was acceptable behavior.

My son decided to hide in the shop the other week, i was scared sh!tless and when i got hold of him i shouted at him and smacked his backside! He wasnt beaten or harmed BUT he was red as a beetroot with embarrassment!


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2013)

harley bear said:


> Its not about smacking just because they do not do as they are told..an adult would know what was acceptable behavior.
> 
> My son decided to hide in the shop the other week, i was scared sh!tless and when i got hold of him i shouted at him and smacked his backside! He wasnt beaten or harmed BUT he was red as a beetroot with embarrassment!


When I were about 6, I got smacked hard on the legs in Tesco's for wandering off with a lady on the promise of sweets, we were both accosted by security guards right by the exit, Mum was all of a go and screaming at the lady that attempted to walk off with me, after she was lead away, Mum smacked me hard on the legs (still remember to this day, not because of being hurt, because of how embarrassed I was) in front of the lady manning the customer services desk.

Did I deserve to be smacked? Sure I did, not only for wandering off out of my mothers sight, but for being silly enough to be lured away on the promise of sweets.


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

Does a child deserve to be hit in any circumstance? maybe like someone said if they are about to touch something hot or sharp and a tap on the hand out of reaction to seeing that.

I can't believe some people on here are all about PR for animals and if they saw an animal being hit would be so angry. yet hitting children is fine?! 

god i'd hate to be a child you got hit for being 'bad' yet the animal was treated with respect. 

yeah telling someone 'we never hit the dog but we hit the children' 

yeah brilliant, really nice! bet the kids feel loved


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

PawsOnMe said:


> Does a child deserve to be hit in any circumstance? maybe like someone said if they are about to touch something hot or sharp and a tap on the hand out of reaction to seeing that.
> 
> I can't believe some people on here are all about PR for animals and if they saw an animal being hit would be so angry. yet hitting children is fine?!
> 
> ...


There is beating a child and correcting a child.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Royoyo said:


> I was never smacked as a child and my Mum & Dad also didn't ground us so we sort of had no punishment for our actions. I was a horrible teenager.... I think if they'd used some form of punishment I wouldn't have been so out of control.
> 
> *I don't disagree with smacking but I disagree with those mothers or fathers who smack their children in public or smack their children out of anger. If you smack your child out of anger then it say's a lot about why your child is so badly behaved*.


I totally agree with this last statement. The children of parents like this have very poor role models they are learning violence is a way of life


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## cat001 (Apr 12, 2008)

From the slaps I got as a child I didn't know what i'd done wrong to deserve it, verbal clarification would have been nice. Because of the slaps I didn't tell my parents when my sister beat me up in private (like when she would kick me in the stomach and wind me during the night when I was sleeping for breathing in my sleep, this was quite regular) and I chose not to tell anyone about these events incase I got a slap for waking them up or something moderate as I thought many of my slaps were unjust (they might not have been but I lacked the reasoning to figure out what they were for).

I think if a parent does slap their child the reason for it needs to be properly communicated.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

I dont agree with smacking. There isnt such a thing as controlled smacking, it happens imo when a parent looses control, out of high emotions (fear the child was about to hurt itself for instance) or if the parent simply doesnt know how else to deal with the situation. It always has been for me a sign of weakness if a parent smacks their child. 

It doesnt make sense to argue that adults are not being smacked because they know whats right or wrong. Then what about those adults that are mentally disabled and are mentally at the same level a child is... is it ok to smack them or would it be classed as abuse? 

I believe children need rules, and if they dont stick to them there have to be consequences. But parents also need to keep an eye on their kids and dont let them run wild and allow them to get into dangerous situations in the first place. And if they do as a result of the lack of supervision by the parent i cant see how smacking would be even justified.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> My son decided to hide in the shop the other week, i was scared sh!tless and when i got hold of him i shouted at him and smacked his backside!


You failed to keep proper control of your child so he could run off and hide. You were scared and lost control. He got hit. Nice.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

havoc said:


> You failed to keep proper control of your child so he could run off and hide. You were scared and lost control. He got hit. Nice.


Oh get off your high horse! I watch my kids like a hawk when were out they have been taught to hold on to the side of the pram at all times and are only allowed to be away from my side of their dad is with me. 
Do you know how easy it is for a child to lose concentration and be distracted by toys.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dorrit said:


> I cant stand this new namby pamby way of bringing up children.. example
> Kid in shop jumping on the display full of vacum packed/part bake bread..
> 
> mum says 'come on get down please'
> ...


Whe the parent tells the kid not to do something, he ignore them and the do nothing about it, I could shake them.

There as a woman in the bank during the last school holidays whose kids were tearing about near the offices and she was doing nothing about it. Then she said to her friend: Can you see wht they are doing? I daren't look. Then the inevitable: be good and I'll take you to the park.

Not a clue.

When my son was two and kept running off while I was trying to pay in a busy M &S, I laid him on the floor and put my foot on him. Everyone was tutting, to which I remarked While he is under my foot I know some pervert hasnt got him. No more point in smacking Ian at that age than an animal as he didn't understan either.



PawsOnMe said:


> Does a child deserve to be hit in any circumstance? maybe like someone said if they are about to touch something hot or sharp and a tap on the hand out of reaction to seeing that.
> 
> I can't believe some people on here are all about PR for animals and if they saw an animal being hit would be so angry. yet hitting children is fine?!
> 
> ...


Some kids get so little attention from their parents that they misbehave jus to get a reaction,any reaction.



cat001 said:


> From the slaps I got as a child I didn't know what i'd done wrong to deserve it, verbal clarification would have been nice. Because of the slaps I didn't tell my parents when my sister beat me up in private (like when she would kick me in the stomach and wind me during the night when I was sleeping for breathing in my sleep, this was quite regular) and I chose not to tell anyone about these events incase I got a slap for waking them up or something moderate as I thought many of my slaps were unjust (they might not have been but I lacked the reasoning to figure out what they were for).
> 
> I think if a parent does slap their child the reason for it needs to be properly communicated.


I used to have a neighbour who slapped her kids for everything. The result was that it had no effect as they were so used to it.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2013)

dorrit said:


> I cant stand this new namby pamby way of bringing up children..


It's the same reaction people who don't punish their dogs get. The immediate assumption is that the dogs are horribly behaved and have no manners. Which of course has nothing to do with the method of training, but how effectively it was applied.

My children are respectful and kind because they have been treated with kindness and respect. We have nurtured their self-control and practiced management until they are developmentally ready. We set them up for success and support them when they fall.

I don't expect everyone to parent the same way I do, but I neither do I expect assumptions (often very wrong) to be made about my kids the minute "I don't spank" escapes my lips.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ouesi said:


> It's the same reaction people who don't punish their dogs get. The immediate assumption is that the dogs are horribly behaved and have no manners. Which of course has nothing to do with the method of training, but how effectively it was applied.
> 
> My children are respectful and kind because they have been treated with kindness and respect. We have nurtured their self-control and practiced management until they are developmentally ready. We set them up for success and support them when they fall.
> 
> I don't expect everyone to parent the same way I do, but I neither do I expect assumptions (often very wrong) to be made about my kids the minute "I don't spank" escapes my lips.


I don't think it necessarily figures that if you don't smack them they are going to be out of control. There are other, often more effective ways to discipline a child. I used to find that not speaking to them worked very well, so long as they understood why.

What I don't like is the useless attempts at bribery that I hear all the time nowadays, when the kids take no notice because they know they will probably get the sweets anyway.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

As a parent I have smacked my daughters bum when she has done something dangerous (like climbing up her art easel and jumping from the top, luckily I caught her). I've only ever smacked her once though, now I say to her do you want a smacked bum and she usually stops what she was doing, if not I will get down to her level and tell her no she isn't allowed to do whatever it is for whatever reason if she still doesn't listen TV is turned off and she's put in a corner, while she throws a tantrum I usually put my earphones in and ignore her.

I was smacked a lot as a child, I was very respectful in public and around other family but at home could be a little cow. I also used to get smacked with a wooden spoon/slipper on the bum if I laughed at a normal smack (I usually ran before my mum came back with the spoon though) and used to get a bar of soap rubbed in my teeth for swearing and had to put up with it for at least 5 minutes until my mum said I could wash my mouth out. I don't think it did me any harm but I do think they are better ways to handle bad behaviour.


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

ouesi said:


> It's the same reaction people who don't punish their dogs get. The immediate assumption is that the dogs are horribly behaved and have no manners. Which of course has nothing to do with the method of training, but how effectively it was applied.
> 
> My children are respectful and kind because they have been treated with kindness and respect. We have nurtured their self-control and practiced management until they are developmentally ready. We set them up for success and support them when they fall.
> 
> I don't expect everyone to parent the same way I do, but I neither do I expect assumptions (often very wrong) to be made about my kids the minute "I don't spank" escapes my lips.


I didnt say anything about parents who dont spank youve managed to twist this part of my post to make it suit yourself as if Ive insulted you in some way..Or maybe it was your children causing havoc and destruction in the supermarket?

I said namby pamby by which I mean weak and ineffective disipline and upbringing with no manners or thought for others ..If you are trying to defend that manner of bringing up children then you really are misguided,
I also said my children were bought up with manners and respect not slapping...


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't agree with smacking children unless there are extreme or life threatening situations. It isn't a way to teach proper behavior. Adults don't go about smacking one another normally.

Smacking children because that's what was done in the past doesn't make it right. At one point, it was also commonly considered a man's duty to beat his wife if necessary. Should we all go back to that? You wouldn't see people advocating that today.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

When my daughter was about three , she hid under some clothes hanging up in a shop whilst we were on holiday in Spain.... Panic set in as we thought she had gone , I was more relieved when we found her and gave her a hug, then explained to her why she should not do that again. 

IMO, hitting a Child, hitting an animal there's no difference , why anyone would think its ok to smack a child but not a pet dog or cat is beyond me


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I don't expect everyone to parent the same way I do, but I neither do I expect assumptions (often very wrong) to be made about my kids the minute "I don't spank" escapes my lips.


Is that a common assumption where you are? I've never heard it assumed over here that you're a bad parent if you _don't_ smack your kids.

---------

I did have a few smacks as a fairly young child. They were effective for their shock value, and made me understand how serious the line I'd crossed was, when words wouldn't have done. The two I remember were for messing about when crossing the road, and lying to my dad. Both were things I fully understood I shouldn't have done, but did anyway - I couldn't tell you why now, mind! I didn't do them again.

I also remember when my mum was on a night shift, I was playing up to my dad and refusing to go to bed. I was about five at the time. So he grabbed my arm and dragged me up. I bounced off a couple of steps and decided to walk of my own accord after that 

I'd hope I'd never be in a position where I have to smack my own children. That being said, I remember from my own childhood how bloody minded I could be, and no amount of reasoning and explanation would make me listen and do as I was told, so I'm not going to say I never will...


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> IMO, hitting a Child, hitting an animal there's no difference , why anyone would think its ok to smack a child but not a pet dog or cat is beyond me


For me, the difference is that a child has the capacity to know better and understand the reason, where a dog or cat doesn't. I wouldn't think smacking a child who was too young to understand, or hadn't had the issue at hand explained to them, was ok. (Of course, nor would it necessarily be ok in all circumstances anyway).


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

A slap on the leg or bottom is very different to beating, thumping a child...............mine had a slap leg and bottom a few times..


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## Pixieandbow (Feb 27, 2013)

Ultimately this law (as with many things the government do) was a ridiculous way to target child abuse...by targeting your average, everyday parent. 

I don't necessarily agree with smacking children and rarely smack mine BUT I dislike being lectured to about 'children's rights' by my children...what about the right of parents to be parents the best way they know how? I am sick of seeing rude, arrogant youths who are cocky because they know there is very little any adult will do. It gives all youth a bad name which is a shame as the majority of them are great and they are the future of our country.

People that abuse their children will abuse their children regardless of the law cease it is a totally separate issue. Slapping a child on the legs or hand is very different to beating 10 bells out of them and breaking bones. A woman was prosecuted recently for smacking her teenage daughter. By the time the woman did this her daughter had thrown a tantrum and wrecked half of her home causing thousands of pounds of damage. Children are children, they need to know the rules, not think they have all the power.

I think parents should be supported not legislated against.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

I don't think smacking your child as a punishment is right at all. You did something wrong so I'm going to hit you, is a terrible example to set.

I can just about justify it if the child is about to do something life threatening... ie. I got hit once as a kid. I was about to run into the road, and as far as it goes, being hit hurts less than being run over.

The idea that hitting your kids is the only way to get them to behave is just so wrong though, I was a pretty well behaved kid (for my parents anyway, I was a bit of a sh*t at school) and they didn't teach me to have respect for them by hitting me.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Its not an effective discipline. Often parents use it when they are at their very wits end and have run out of all other options. I know that I have resorted to smacking my own daughter as she has pushed me to the very edge of my endurance and to have honest I felt more "punished" by it than her. It didn't change her behaviour and it just made her 10x worse by yelling "I hate you even more now for hitting me!!"

I have never, lifted a hand to my son as he just doesn't push my buttons like she does :cursing:

Some parents smack their kids for any old arbetary offence or threaten their kids to smack them like today I was waiting in line at the bank and a man ahead was with his daughter and she was getting impatient and started to fidget and he said "stop that or you'll get a smack on the bum". That do me was so stupid. Why not just distract her or interract with her instead.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> That do me was so stupid. Why not just distract her or interract with her instead


Because it takes time and effort. If she'd carried on it was a failing on the part of the adult who can then cover up their failing by hitting the child. Screwed thinking in a supposedly civilised society.


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

redroses2106 said:


> do you think parents should be allowed to smack their children again?
> 
> I am not talking about abuse or regular beatings but a smack on the bum or slap on the back of the hand for being naughty/cheeky.


I think so but only if the repeated offense wasn't learned earlier through positive ways; in other words, I would spank my children only as a last resort, if all else fails. After all, parents must and should be the ones who discipline their children.

I know when I was growing up and we (my brothers, sisters, and I) behaved badly, we either got my father's belt or the hickory switch across our behinds! Needless to say, we didn't do it again! :crying:

Nowadays, in the US, a parent who does this type of punishment gets hauled off to court/jail and social services by court order removes the child or children from their homes. hmy:

But here's the thing: If parents can't discipline their children, then the state or their national government must build more jails and/or prisons, because as the child grows up and are not punished for bad behavor, then they don't realize such behavor is bad for they "got away with it", when they were children.

As a parent myself, I have to say I've been fortunate with my two, because I never had to "spank" or use so-called "harsh" treatments or punishments on them, but I can't say they've been one-hundred percent angels either! :wink:


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2013)

Megan345 said:


> Is that a common assumption where you are? I've never heard it assumed over here that you're a bad parent if you _don't_ smack your kids. .


Yes, very much so. DH and I are total lone rangers in the way we parent our kids. One woman told me to my face that it was because of parents like me that kids bring guns in to schools and shoot their classmates. 
It has been an .... interesting ... ride 



dorrit said:


> I didnt say anything about parents who dont spank youve managed to twist this part of my post to make it suit yourself as if Ive insulted you in some way..*Or maybe it was your children causing havoc and destruction in the supermarket?*


The topic of the thread is about smacking kids. Your post implied that not smacking = namby pamby parenting which = something you can't stand. That's what I responded to.

To the bolded, no, that would not have been my kids because from day one they were taught by example to be respectful and understanding of consequences. And because they also have been taught empathy, they would not create havoc and disruption then leave it for someone else to deal with.

That's the thing. I find, just like with my dogs, that when people hear how we parent, the common assumption is that the kids run roughshod over us and are *those* kids causing havoc in stores and restaurants. Yet that couldn't be further from the truth. 
Then folks meet my kids or dogs, see how they behave, and jump to the conclusion that they're just "easy". It's actually quite funny how predictable it all gets


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

I can remember smacking my 2 and the reasons I did it....son aged 5 ran across busy road to get icecream van,he had been warned never to go near the road,daughter aged 4 decided to redecorate a newly decorated light grey bedroom.....with permanent black ink marker.she did say it was MY fault for leaving it lying around!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> But here's the thing: If parents can't discipline their children, then the state or their national government must build more jails and/or prisons, because as the child grows up and are not punished for bad behavor


This assumes the only possible punishment for bad behaviour is violence towards the child.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

No smacking policy in our house. Here's why: 

I spent four years in a convent, when I was 6 till 10, I was caned (3 strokes across each hand) by a nun, every week, just as a preventative measure. We were given the rules and they were cemented in by caning. If we broke those rules we were deprived of food for twenty-four hours, being made to stand outside the dining hall while others ate - just to drive the point home. However, with those punishments for misbehaviour in place I and others still broke the rules, we just got very good at not getting caught. It never did me any good whatsoever, except to make me promise myself that I wouldn't hit a child, not even a smack, ever.

How did I discipline my daughter when she was growing up? I used to remove priviliges. I used to ground her all the way up to being 16. If the grounding meant she missed a treat, so-be-it. I never did get any real problems, or felt out of my depth because I didn't physically chastise her, she grew up fine, with a lot less baggage than I did.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

havoc said:


> This assumes the only possible punishment for bad behaviour is violence towards the child.


Unfortunately, this is a notion shared by alot of people. My mother never smacked me. She didn't need to. Say I wanted to go to a party on a school night and she said no and I had a tantrum, she would then say that she doesn't think its a good idea for the following reasons and what she said made alot of sense. She was and still is very wise and so she didn't need to "hit" me to get the message across.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> No smacking policy in our house. Here's why:
> 
> I spent four years in a convent, when I was 6 till 10, I was caned (3 strokes across each hand) by a nun, every week, just as a preventative measure. We were given the rules and they were cemented in by caning. If we broke those rules we were deprived of food for twenty-four hours, being made to stand outside the dining hall while others ate - just to drive the point home. However, with those punishments for misbehaviour in place I and others still broke the rules, we just got very good at not getting caught. It never did me any good whatsoever, except to make me promise myself that I wouldn't hit a child, not even a smack, ever.


My aunt became a school teacher because when she was at school (during the 40's) she was regularly caned too and was absolutely terrified of the teachers and decided that she wanted to become a teacher because she never wanted a child to be afraid of her.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> However, with those punishments for misbehaviour in place I and others still broke the rules, we just got very good at not getting caught


Of course you did. Not only is hitting children barbaric, it's ineffective. The very idea that it 'teaches' them a lesson is ridiculous. Would all those parents who defend their right to be violent towards their child be happy if someone else did so?


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I really don't understand why people think it's acceptable to smack or hit a child as a regular thing. If I hit another adult in the bum for example, I could be in legal hot water for sexual harassment or sexual assault.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Whilst I think it was wrong to make it illegal I would hope I wouldn't have to resort to it. Growing up we had the odd smack, nothing major or regular. if it were a case of smacking a hand away from a hot stove (which I would do to an adult too) then i have no problem with that. I do agree disciplining a child doesn't need to involve smacking.

I never had much of an issue before but since having the baby I am less likely to consider it Ask me again in a few years!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

WelshOneEmma said:


> Whilst I think it was wrong to make it illegal I would hope I wouldn't have to resort to it. Growing up we had the odd smack, nothing major or regular. if it were a case of smacking a hand away from a hot stove (which I would do to an adult too) then i have no problem with that. I do agree disciplining a child doesn't need to involve smacking.
> 
> I never had much of an issue before but since having the baby I am less likely to consider it Ask me again in a few years!


Well my grandaughter got a very hard smack when I caught her about to stick a pin in my dog's eye. But I did not make a habit of smacking my children. I have seen people smack six month old babies and I have to wonder what the hell lesson they think they are teaching.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I wouldn't do it I think some of the parents that do like the fact that they can hit someone who won't hit back like an adult would. All those people posting on fb I was smacked everyday and my parents were awesome for doing it. If they were posting saying my dad hit my mum everyday because she broke a rule and it was awesome it wouldn't be taken so well . There is no need to hit a child to teach it rules but some people seem to think it's the only way.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

I do smack my kids..when i think its appropriate to do so and not often..i have never beaten them or left marks etc and i have only ever smacked them to discipline them. 

I would never have left my kids in the care of their grandparents alone because i dont agree with the way they chose to bring up either me or oh. 
I think only a parent can decide if its necessary for a child to have a smack. 

I can honestly say if one of our parents would have ever smacked one of my kids i would have hit the roof! 
I would not smack my grandchildren under any circumstances.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

I really don't think that children actually learn anything from getting smacked - except perhaps violence is the way adults treat children and a mistrust towards those very people that they should be able to trust. It also teaches a child that it is the correct thing to do if you are angry, this can have serious repercussions and can lead to bullying from the child towards others.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I think only a parent can decide if its necessary for a child to have a smack


Why? If it is an effective method of teaching children why not allow teachers to hit them as it should presumably help them learn.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

havoc said:


> Why? If it is an effective method of teaching children why not allow teachers to hit them as it should presumably help them learn.


Every parent has a right to decide how to parent their child, this is not for anyone else to decide, other family members OR teachers.

Just because a parent has and would smack their child if they felt it was the right thing to do does not mean that a child gets smacked on a daily basis, weekly or even monthly basis! It could be once in a blue moon or once in the childs lifetime. It does not mean that the parents are bad parents.


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

nam·by-pam·by (

1. Insipid and sentimental.

2. Lacking vigor or decisiveness; spineless.

Absolutly nothing to do with smacking or not but all to do with attitude..As shown in my example.

As is so often the case those who know little assume the most..


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Every parent has a right to decide how to parent their child, this is not for anyone else to decide, other family members OR teachers


Every parent thinks the level of violence they use against their child is appropriate. Even the most heinous abusers can justify their abuse to themselves. It isn't unreasonable for a civilised society to set the bounds.


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## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

Children Learn What They Live
By Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph.D.


If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.
If children live with fear, they learn to be apprehensive.
If children live with pity, they learn to feel sorry for themselves.
If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.
If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.
If children live with shame, they learn to feel guilty.
If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.
If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.
If children live with praise, they learn appreciation.
If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.
If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.
If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.
If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.
If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.
If children live with fairness, they learn justice.
If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.
If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.
If children live with friendliness, they learn the world is a nice place in which to live.

Copyright © 1972 by Dorothy Law Nolte


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> I really don't think that children actually learn anything from getting smacked - except perhaps violence is the way adults treat children and a mistrust towards those very people that they should be able to trust. It also teaches a child that it is the correct thing to do if you are angry, this can have serious repercussions and can lead to bullying from the child towards others.


I'm sorry but I need to disagree with all of the above.

I was smacked as a child and I was also battered black & blue as a child and into my teens.

There is no doubt that I deserved some of the smacks but my mother couldn't control her temper and too often I ended up being battered.

I did NOT, however, grow up thinking violence is acceptable and that all adults should be 'violent' towards children. I have never thought that this is the thing to do when I am angry and I was never a bully.

When a child needs constant smacks, then there is a more of a problem there than just a spot of bad behaviour. A smack given once in a blue moon - for a very serious matter - has much more effect and is usually more of a shock to the child rather than a moment of pain.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

I was smacked a lot as a child, and to be honest, all it did was raise my pain threshold. To this day I can burn/scald/cut/bruise/ bash myself, and I'm like the knights of Ni - 'it's just a flesh wound' - I just get on with it. 

Regarding my own kids - I think that sometimes smacking is necessary - say when a child persistently does a dangerous thing and will not be reasoned out of its actions - but at the same time, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times my kids have needed a smack. And because it's been rare, it's made them take notice.

I hate to see kids walloped in public (I always think if mam/dad does that publicly, what are they like in private, and I hate, HATE to see a child slapped around the head or face - you can do so much damage to their little developing brains - it's unbelievable.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

My Father was very heavy handed and it did do me a great deal of harm.At a very young age I decided I would not use physical punishment. 
My husband came from a family where smacks were never dished out so he completely agreed with me,discipline can always be dealt with in a non violent/physical way IMVHO.... And hey our kids have turned out pretty damn fine, so did he!!


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Well my grandaughter got a very hard smack when I caught her about to stick a pin in my dog's eye. But I did not make a habit of smacking my children. I have seen people smack six month old babies and I have to wonder what the hell lesson they think they are teaching.


That's a prime example of when it can also be beneficial, when they are doing something dangerous. I don't like seeing young children being smacked for things like having a tantrum etc, but then i am not the parent and its not my call how someone disciplines their child. as long as it doesn't cross the line into abuse. problem is, everyone has different ideas of what constitutes abuse.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

MoggyBaby said:


> I'm sorry but I need to disagree with all of the above.
> 
> I was smacked as a child and I was also battered black & blue as a child and into my teens.
> 
> ...


I'm really so very sorry that you mum treated you in such a way when you were a child, you must have had a very miserable time and I feel so very sad for you.

I think that maybe you did learn that adults weren't to be trusted, surely you feared what you mother was going to do next and when the next blow was coming, surely you didnt trust your mother when she couldnt control her temper.

But you did grow up thinking that violence is acceptable, if you are willing to chastise a child by smacking - even once in a blue moon - that says you think violence is acceptable.

Smacking a child is just the beginning of a slippery slope, what do you do to punish a child when smacking no long works, because there will come a day when it won't work. When a child grows up and is big enough to smack you back - except that child will be so angry they may well do a lot worse than smack you.

Be safe and much love.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

havoc said:


> If some guy hit his girlfriend, just a sharp slap for the shock value, because she wouldn't do as she was told you'd all be screaming for him to be imprisoned


What about the other way around? why guy slapping girl not the other way around?


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

I remember smacking Jake twice - and the first time he was 18 months old.

We were at my mums, he was crawling round the floor, and he was just about to stick his fingers in the plug socket 

I grabbed his hand and slapped it saying 'burny' - it gave him a shock and he never tried it again. In fact he would point to plug sockets and say 'burny, ouchy'.

I think it was curiosity as we had socket guards at home.

The second time he was about to run out into the road, and yes he knew he shouldn't run out into the road, he just had the devil in him that day - he pulled his hand out of mine and ran, thinking it was a fine game. He was about 4. I grabbed his shoulder, pulled him back as a car went racing past, slapped his legs, the gave him a huge bear hug and told him how that fast car had nearly made him go splat.

I have been able to take him anywhere since he was a baby, I have always had compliments on how polite he is, and what a credit he is to me.

So, no, an occasional slap doesn't do them any harm, and doesn't make the parent doing the slapping a child beater or a bad parent.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

My friend says the only time he hit his golden retriever was when he was going for a plug socket and was genuinely in danger. I can understand that but as a routine method of punishment for a child or an animal I think it's very wrong.

You wouldn't hit an adult you were in a relationship with, unless of course you had agreed to that kind of relationship, but some people would hit a child. It doesn't seem right to me.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

We were smacked very, very occasionally as children and only for something serious. If I had children I'd do the same.
Don't feel it's something that should be used regularly, but has it's place. We were well behaved mostly, both at home and out.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

WelshOneEmma said:


> That's a prime example of when it can also be beneficial, when they are doing something dangerous. I don't like seeing young children being smacked for things like having a tantrum etc, but then i am not the parent and its not my call how someone disciplines their child. as long as it doesn't cross the line into abuse. problem is, everyone has different ideas of what constitutes abuse.


A tantrum is best dealt with by totally ignoring it. My daughter soon found out that lying on the floor kicking her feet and pumelling her fists only resulted in my stepping over her, even if it was in a shop. They hurt themselves far more than we ever could. Unfortunately not many people have the zero embarrassment factor needed to keep this up in public - I do.



havoc said:


> Who is to decide which is which? What I might consider reasonable discipline you would consider abuse. I don't understand how violence could ever be considered acceptable. If some guy hit his girlfriend, just a sharp slap for the shock value, because she wouldn't do as she was told you'd all be screaming for him to be imprisoned. Nobody agrees with hitting adults or animals so why is a child less worthy?


Because there is absolutely no reason why the girlfriend should do as she is told, and even less reason why the man should expect it. A child should be doing as it is told for its own good - completely different.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> A child should be doing as it is told for its own good


So what are the criteria? Is it reasonable to attempt to slap sense and good behaviour into other humans based on size, age, mental capacity? Is it only OK to hit someone only if they are smaller than us or do we include such arguments as refusing to, or incapable of responding to other methods?

When we get threads on subjects like this many respond with a singular and inward looking view. Whatever that individual does is OK in their eyes so therefore it's OK. I'd imagine the vast majority would consider it generally wrong to use violence against another human and yet consider it perfectly OK to do so if that person is small, vulnerable and under their control. That is a lesson we don't need to teach.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

I used to get the odd smack, you just did when I was little - it never left a mark or hurt other than pride  and I was very mischievous , mostly though my brother got the smack because he is 14 months older than me so got the blame for whatever prank we had been up to despite it being invariably my idea!. 

Only ever from mum, dad never smacked any of us partly because he was very strong so thought he would hurt us and partly being one of 11 children he tended to think whatever me & bros had been up to was funny, can hear him now saying "leave them be its just a childs trick".

As the majority of kids then were smacked and there was also caning in schools by all accounts most of my age group should be violent bullies then 

I can't recall ever smacking my own son, he didn't need it - worse punishment for him was to ignore him and not speak at all he hated that! Even now at 26 he cringes if I do the "I am so disappointed in you" chat :laugh:


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> As the majority of kids then were smacked and there was also caning in schools by all accounts most of my age group should be violent bullies then


Yes, the idea that the 'odd slap' is necessary and won't hurt still prevails through the generations. It is passed on through home and work, anywhere there are vulnerable people. 'It was just a quick tap to make her realise what she was doing' is sadly often the response when a carer is found to be abusing. This is learned behaviour so someone is teaching it.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

not read all of this but i quite like a little spanking


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> As the majority of kids then were smacked and there was also caning in schools by all accounts most of my age group should be violent bullies then


I must be up there with mass murderers! I was smacked at home and got the cane at school. My parents believed smacking was an effect way to discipline and corporal punishment was legal in school, its just the way it was.

I would say it hasn`t done me any harm but then I can`t compare can I? there is not two of me one smacked and one not to make the comparison. I don`t feel I was abused, although the way in which I was smacked is most definitely classed as abuse to day, I don`t bear any grudges towards my parents (lucky for them as I`m there carer now!!)

As for smacking children today, no I don`t think it is the best way to deal with them, not at all, but if a child does get the occasionally smack I hardly think that child is scarred for live and will grow up with a whole host of unresolved problems


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I don`t bear any grudges towards my parents (lucky for them as I`m there carer now!!)


They are lucky.



> if a child does get the occasionally smack I hardly think that child is scarred for live and will grow up with a whole host of unresolved problems


I agree. My mother was a great one for dishing out a sharp slap and luckily for her I never once considered it through the years I nursed her until she died. I often felt the frustration which leads people to do it though.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

havoc said:


> Yes, the idea that the 'odd slap' is necessary and won't hurt still prevails through the generations. It is passed on through home and work, anywhere there are vulnerable people. 'It was just a quick tap to make her realise what she was doing' is sadly often the response when a carer is found to be abusing. This is learned behaviour so someone is teaching it.


 My sister has looked after her severally disabled daughter for 30 years, she has never raised her voice let alone hit/slapped either her or any of her other children.

Our mum has dementia, neither me or my brother have taken to beating her because we got the occassional smack as children


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

If we don't smack and don't want to smack what are the alternatives and how can we teach discipline without smacking our children? Try this link: Encouraging better behaviour | For parents | NSPCC

Having been badly beaten when I was a child I swore never to hit or smack my children if I ever had them. I had a daughter and listening to this sort of music helped me to contain my anger and calm me when she was naughty, especially this song:


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

My mother was the one who smacked me but only twice and I admit I did push it too far - I was about 6 then but I learnt from it.

I, myself, have smacked my daughter only once when she was four. I'd caught her drawing on our Sitting room wall and after explaining that we have paper for this and it wasn't acceptable behaviour. Leaving her with some paper, I went to put out some washing and caught her doing it again so gave her a small tap on the bottom - she didn't do it again.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

i was smacked as a kid (we used to get "the slipper" in our house which doesnt quite sound as ominous in writing as it does in my head). It never stopped me misbehaving, just made me more careful about not getting caught.

Oh and lets not forget the obligitory "it never did me any harm" as if i have any way of knowing what i would be like if i _hadnt_ been smacked as a kid..


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Oh and lets not forget the obligitory "it never did me any harm"


Anyone who uses that as a reason for hitting children is admitting it's a cycle which they choose not to break. Doesn't matter if it's a single slap or a sustained assault, the principle is exactly the same


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## SpotOn (May 7, 2013)

MoggyBaby said:


> I'm sorry but I need to disagree with all of the above.
> 
> I was smacked as a child and I was also battered black & blue as a child and into my teens.
> 
> ...


My dad sounds much like your mother, he had (and still does) have a bad temper. I often remember being hit several times with either a cane, hand or my dads belt particularly if I didn't learn my times tables properly every week. Part of me thinks he used it as an excuse to de-stress.... I was often sent to school with a note by mum mum to say the injury/bruise was through horse riding / fallen down stairs / banged into X/Y/X, she was worried social services may come knocking.

My mum never laid a hand on me or smacked me, odd tap on my hand if I went near the hob/oven. She rarely raised her voice at me, she never really needed to, the 'look' was enough.

I will never forgive my dad for what he did to me.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2013)

I think it's very difficult for most people to think in terms of their own beloved parents having done something "wrong" by spanking, slapping, smacking etc. That's very understandable.

My mom smoked and drank during pregnancy, not knowing it was potentially harmful, she brought us home from the hospital sitting in her lap in the car without a seatbelt. Babyseats? What's that right?

The thing is, when you know better, you do better. We now KNOW that spanking is unnecessary, and potentially harmful. We know better ways of parenting and discipling our children. There is nothing wrong with embracing that new knowledge. It doesn't mean we don't appreciate what our own parents did for us. It just means we are progressing as a people - in a good way


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I have no problem with parents smacking their children.*


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

havoc said:


> This assumes the only possible punishment for bad behaviour is violence towards the child.


No it doesn't. This statement, "If parents can't discipline their children, then the state or their national government must build more jails and/or prisons, because as the child grows up and are not punished for bad behavor, then they don't realize such behavor is bad for they "got away with it", when they were children. ", means that if some form of corrective method isn't used within a short time after the offensive behavior in which the parent has now have knowledge of, and according to the state, parents cannot discipline their children in a way that will deter bad behavior in the future, especially when they're adults and these bad behaviors become "criminal behaviors" in which the legal system must deal with by sentencing them to some amount of time in jails and prisons which are in most cases are at capacity or overcrowded.

Most of the time, however, I think many children grow out of such behaviors because they don't want to be the one in the "spotlight" amongst their peers as being a bad kid as well as reasoning why certain actions will be acceptable or not.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> If we don't smack and don't want to smack what are the alternatives and how can we teach discipline without smacking our children? Try this link: Encouraging better behaviour | For parents | NSPCC
> 
> *Having been badly beaten when I was a child *I swore never to hit or smack my children if I ever had them. I had a daughter and listening to this sort of music helped me to contain my anger and calm me when she was naughty, especially this song: STONES - NEIL DIAMOND - YouTube


There is the difference a smack by a loving parent does not even leave a mark - anti-smacking does not and never will stop those who abuse/beat their children they are different things


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Nothing wrong with discipline within boundarys, a smack on the ahole never did anything to harm me when little, did teach me respect tho (when i wanna use it lol)


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

my younger brother (then about 11) was really mouthing off at mum one day, dad happened to have a cricket bat in his hand so took a swipe at little bro, however bro wasnt quite as far away as dad thought he was and felt the full force of the bat, so much so that the bat broke....i larfed my head off for days


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

spare the rod, spoil the child, boy hasnt that been proved right


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> a smack on the ahole never did anything to harm me when little, did teach me respect tho


I honestly don't understand this. How did it teach you respect. It may have taught you to fear those who could hit you but how does it teach you to respect anything? Respect is earned and it isn't the same thing as fear. It's also a mutual thing. How could any human respect someone who hit them therefore showing the victim no respect at all?


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

havoc said:


> How could any human respect someone who hit them therefore showing the victim no respect at all?


We are talking a paddle on the butt cheek, not a whipping. I was never fearful of the person I was just more aware of consequences.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I don't agree. The occasional (deserved) smack didn't cause me to fear my parents. However, it taught me what the boundaries were.


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## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

Waterlily said:


> We are talking a paddle on the butt cheek, not a whipping. I was never fearful of the person I was just more aware of consequences.


Maybe not fearful of the person but surely being more aware of the consequences is a certain level of fear?


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

IrishEyes said:


> Maybe not fearful of the person but surely being more aware of the consequences is a certain level of fear?


Even children need to be aware of the consequences of their actions though otherwise they would launch into all sorts of dangerous situations.

Personally I think that sometimes a quick smack is more effective and also over and done with sooner rather than endless discussions/naughty steps/time outs etc.

Whose to say in 50 years down the line the great debate will be all about the damage caused to a generation of kids by using these alternative measures


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> There is the difference a smack by a loving parent does not even leave a mark - anti-smacking does not and never will stop those who abuse/beat their children they are different things


But are they really though? I don't think there is a defined difference at all. Some parents would argue that they are not beating their children, others would disagree - surely this is a not something everyone would agree on.

IME physical punishment is also defined by the era we grew up in, I'm sure years ago it was acceptable to beat your (wife) & kids -nowadays it's not Whilst I don't think the odd smack is abuse I do find it strange how many people will try & justify the corrections they give out & get very defensive about them. I agree with comments that if a dog/cat was smacked & members openly admitted they did this they would be flamed. How can one be ok but not another? 

If you're not smacking to leave a mark & therefore no real physical punishment then what is the punshment? Surely there must a be a certain amount of pain or fear for it to be an effective punishment, if you look at physical/aversive correction in the dog section then this is always highlighted when people discuss certain forms of punishment


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

But what is wrong with being "afraid" of consequences?

Sleep around = STDs, unwanted pregnancy

Theft and murder = jail time


Surely being aware that every action has consequences is part of growing up and healthy?
I think many problems in society are because of people not taking responsibility for their actions and the consequences thereof. 
I don't subscribe to this new nonsense that parents are to blame for everything that goes wrong in one's life and therefore you can't be blamed for anything you do, whether it's murder or mayhem.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> But what is wrong with being "afraid" of consequences?
> 
> Sleep around = STDs, unwanted pregnancy
> 
> ...


I don't think there is anything wrong with having consequences, the threat of being grounded, losing privilideges, etc could all be consequences of bad behaviour & be used as punishments.

But if smacking is used as a punishment & it's intention is not to cause pain then what is the 'punishing' aspect of it? How is it a punishment? I'm not being sarky but curious as to how people would define it.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

i wonder how many would agree that their husband wasnt actually beating them so long as he made sure that he didnt leave a mark.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> There is the difference a smack by a loving parent does not even leave a mark - anti-smacking does not and never will stop those who abuse/beat their children they are different things


The thing is it wasn't my parents that beat me - it was the nuns in the convent that me and my three sisters were in they beat us. Of course my parents condoned the beatings by leaving us there, if they knew what was going on that is, which I've always given them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't. It didn't teach me a thing except hate (the nuns) to mistrust authority and to get very good at not getting caught when I'd done wrong.

When we left the convent - I was 10, we told our parents about the beatings. They didn't do anything, I never found out why - stuff like that in those days was commonplace I guess. But they did promise we would never be hit again and they kept their word. For discipline, they removed treats such as trips to the seaside and going to the cinema, the same discipline which I used when bringing up my daughter.

Smacking for any reason is abuse, whether it happens once or many times imo. It shows a lack of control and imagination by those that adminster the slap. For example: If a smack is given to serve as a shock to prevent a child crossing the road - it doesnt teach a child not to cross the road without looking, it teaches the child fear of the adult that administered it. Do you really want for your child to fear you? Also, a smack is not warrented in this situation, it's your fault if your child ran across the road, not his/hers, it's because you were less than vigilent, why blame and punish the child for something you have done wrong. Also if a child runs out into a road without looking it's because it hasn't been shown often enough how to cross the road safely, that is your job as a parent.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> Even children need to be aware of the consequences of their actions though otherwise they would launch into all sorts of dangerous situations.
> 
> Personally I think that sometimes a quick smack is more effective and also over and done with sooner rather than endless discussions/naughty steps/time outs etc.
> 
> Whose to say in 50 years down the line the great debate will be all about the damage caused to a generation of kids by using these alternative measures


Sorry Doodles, but how can you cause damage by given a child time out on a naughty step or discussing with him/her the consequences of their actions?


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I don't smack very often at all I don't really have the need I'm blessed with pretty good kids when I have it's because I've lost control of the situation and abit of frustration I guess on my part

Im rubbish at keeping my word with things tho I say I'll throw all their bits and bobs out etc I need to get on and do it one day lol

My mum smacked me as a child, I was scared of her sometimes but she never beat me and is a good mum and nanny. She doesn't smack my children I think shes done it once in 9yrs


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> My mum smacked me as a child, I was scared of her sometimes but she never beat me and is a good mum and nanny. She doesn't smack my children I think shes done it once in 9yrs


Were you happy about it? One poster on here who firmly believes in hitting their child has stated that only parents should do so.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

havoc said:


> Were you happy about it? One poster on here who firmly believes in hitting their child has stated that only parents should do so.


I for one think only parents should paddle bottoms, theres a trust and a bond there disciplining in love whereas someone else its merely just physical contact... dunno, its my view cant explain it and rly cba lol.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2013)

We are a punitive culture so it's completely foreign for us to imagine how someone could possibly grow in to a functional person without some "fear of consequences." Yet there are cultures everywhere who would never dream of laying a hand on a child, yelling at a child, shaming a child, or even getting stern with a child, and these children grow up to function just fine - maybe, dare I say it, kinder that us "civilized" westerners?

The thing about punishment - in any incarnation, physical or otherwise, is that all it does is exert external control over the child. It is a means of control. Nothing more, nothing less. Remove the external control, and the behavior will resurface. Punishment does not make you want to stop doing something, it just makes you afraid of the consequences, the desire is still there. 

However, if you address the child, not the behavior, but the child, as an individual with needs and emotions, and frustrations, and insecurities, and inner conflicts, and in turn address those needs, that inner self, the behavior sorts itself out. 
Of course this path is far less travelled, there are few mentors, it requires more work. It does seem far more efficient to smack that hand or bottom. I completely understand why people do. All I'm saying is that it is not necessary, and perhaps even, not even desirable.

Einstein said, "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
I don't want my children to "behave" because they fear consequences. I want them to do the right thing regardless of consequences. Because it's the right thing to do. Because they care and respect others, because they care and respect themselves. Discipline from within vs. obedience to outside pressure.


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## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

ouesi said:


> We are a punitive culture so it's completely foreign for us to imagine how someone could possibly grow in to a functional person without some "fear of consequences." Yet there are cultures everywhere who would never dream of laying a hand on a child, yelling at a child, shaming a child, or even getting stern with a child, and these children grow up to function just fine - maybe, dare I say it, kinder that us "civilized" westerners?
> 
> The thing about punishment - in any incarnation, physical or otherwise, is that all it does is exert external control over the child. It is a means of control. Nothing more, nothing less. Remove the external control, and the behavior will resurface. Punishment does not make you want to stop doing something, it just makes you afraid of the consequences, the desire is still there.
> 
> ...


Fantastic post Ouesi!!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Someone goes over to the dog training bit and says I need to put a choke chain on my dog or pin it to the floor or it will become dangerously out of control they would get lectured on it being wrong. But adults feel they have the right to hurt a child because they can't be bothered to teach it right from wrong any other way .


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I don't smack & I wasn't smacked as a child, although I went to boarding school & did get corporal punishment dished out to me by both staff members & older girls. It just made me despise authority more careful & taught me to not get caught next time.

My children have learned that there are consequences for bad behaviour in the form of revoking of privileges, or extra chores with no pocket money.

TBH, they're typical teenagers in that they have strops & bleat about things not being fair, but I'd sooner be their mum, than mum to a teenage me


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

Ever hear of the old adage: "Spare the rod, spoil the child?" I heard this all the time when I was a child and the adults used to say this, but all I hoped was this wasn't actually a "rod"!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> The thing is it wasn't my parents that beat me - it was the nuns in the convent that me and my three sisters were in they beat us. Of course my parents condoned the beatings by leaving us there, if they knew what was going on that is, which I've always given them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't. It didn't teach me a thing except hate (the nuns) to mistrust authority and to get very good at not getting caught when I'd done wrong.
> 
> When we left the convent - I was 10, we told our parents about the beatings. They didn't do anything, I never found out why - stuff like that in those days was commonplace I guess. But they did promise we would never be hit again and they kept their word. For discipline, they removed treats such as trips to the seaside and going to the cinema, the same discipline which I used when bringing up my daughter.
> 
> Smacking for any reason is abuse, whether it happens once or many times imo. It shows a lack of control and imagination by those that adminster the slap. For example: If a smack is given to serve as a shock to prevent a child crossing the road - it doesnt teach a child not to cross the road without looking, it teaches the child fear of the adult that administered it. Do you really want for your child to fear you? Also, a smack is not warrented in this situation, it's your fault if your child ran across the road, not his/hers, it's because you were less than vigilent, why blame and punish the child for something you have done wrong. Also if a child runs out into a road without looking it's because it hasn't been shown often enough how to cross the road safely, that is your job as a parent.


As I said I never smacked my son - as to the road example, it was considered old fashioned even when he was that age but my son was on reigns  so he couldn't run into the road or anywhere else. Don't know why they aren't used any more saves all sorts of issue - can't dart off saves them from falling over etc


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with having consequences, the threat of being grounded, losing privilideges, etc could all be consequences of bad behaviour & be used as punishments.
> 
> But if smacking is used as a punishment & it's intention is not to cause *pain *then what is the 'punishing' aspect of it? How is it a punishment? I'm not being sarky but curious as to how people would define it.


The smacks I received as a child were not painful. Rather it had a startling effect and stopped the behaviour I was engaged in at once. It was also not the punishment of choice. My parents usually would usually withdraw privileges or time out.
I don't see how long discussions about why I was bad and "hurt mommy and daddy" would have made a difference. I wasn't entirely stupid. I knew my behaviour was bad while I was doing it, I didn't need it to be explained to me. 
I don't see how a quick smack with an open hand on the bottom equates with "beating". There is a clear difference. In my day, there was still corporal punishment ("caning") for boys at schools. At one stage, boys were given a choice: after school detention or caning. They always chose caning. Quickly over and done with. I recall once sitting in boring detention doing homework wishing I could get a hiding instead


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> The smacks I received as a child were not painful. Rather it had a startling effect and stopped the behaviour I was engaged in at once. It was also not the punishment of choice. My parents usually would usually withdraw privileges or time out.
> I don't see how long discussions about why I was bad and "hurt mommy and daddy" would have made a difference. I wasn't entirely stupid. I knew my behaviour was bad while I was doing it, I didn't need it to be explained to me.
> I don't see how a quick smack with an open hand on the bottom equates with "beating". There is a clear difference. In my day, there was still corporal punishment ("caning") for boys at schools. At one stage, boys were given a choice: after school detention or caning. They always chose caning. Quickly over and done with. I recall once sitting in boring detention doing homework wishing I could get a hiding instead


As I said earlier I don't think smacking children is the same as abuse & I certainly don't think parents who do smack their dchildren are 'bad' parents but I do not think there is always a clear difference, parents have different views at to what is & isn't acceptable, same as children will view the discipline they receive maybe differently.

I agree that given the choice between losing a privildge or a physical punishment I probably would have chosen the physical punishment so is it really the best punishment then?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> In my day, there was still corporal punishment ("caning") for boys at schools. At one stage, boys were given a choice: after school detention or caning. They always chose caning.


This was studied at one point and it wasn't the quick nature of the punishment which was the motivation. Rather it was a culture of being seen to be 'soft' if a boy wasn't prepared to choose the caning.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

havoc said:


> This was studied at one point and it wasn't the quick nature of the punishment which was the motivation. Rather it was a culture of being seen to be 'soft' if a boy wasn't prepared to choose the caning.


Reminds me of our old headmaster - he had been there when it was previously a grammar school so was not used to the more riff raff elements when it became a comprehensive  He was such a wuss and the lads soon caught on that he shut his eyes when he canned them so they stuck an exercise book down their trousers they obviously did not want the pain kudos lol


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> Reminds me of our old headmaster - he had been there when it was previously a grammar school so was not used to the more riff raff elements when it became a comprehensive  He was such a wuss and the lads soon caught on that he shut his eyes when he canned them so they stuck an exercise book down their trousers they obviously did not want the pain kudos lol


LOL, an ex of mine told me that a teacher at the boys school he attended used to give them a choice of punishment .... caning or tickling  ..... they chose caning rather than the tickling!!


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> LOL, an ex of mine told me that a teacher at the boys school he attended used to give them a choice of punishment .... caning or tickling  ..... they chose caning rather than the tickling!!


*Tickling? Man that doesn't sound right where I come from! :yikes:*


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2013)

This is a well written post on the subject that covers many of the issues brought up in this discussion.

The Problem with Punishment | Little Hearts/Gentle Parenting Resources


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> not read all of this but i quite like a little spanking


Why does this not surprise me in the slightest? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

ouesi said:


> We are a punitive culture so it's completely foreign for us to imagine how someone could possibly grow in to a functional person without some "fear of consequences." Yet there are cultures everywhere who would never dream of laying a hand on a child, yelling at a child, shaming a child, or even getting stern with a child, and these children grow up to function just fine - maybe, dare I say it, kinder that us "civilized" westerners?
> 
> The thing about punishment - in any incarnation, physical or otherwise, is that all it does is exert external control over the child. It is a means of control. Nothing more, nothing less. Remove the external control, and the behavior will resurface. Punishment does not make you want to stop doing something, it just makes you afraid of the consequences, the desire is still there.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you. I have to admit that I have on occasion slapped my children, and I'm very far from proud of it. In retrospect, I can see that it was a mixture of fear (oh, no - he's trying to eat lightbulbs again), exhaustion (my son was a kid who only catnapped - he was over two before he slept a solid hour - I was like a zombie - he was awake day and night) and frustration (do as you are TOLD!).

I would never even tap a child under two as I don't see what good it does - they don't know why, and I would never smack a child in a tantrum - I used to step over mine and they very quickly stopped throwing them. I have seen people smack their kids in supermarkets for throwing a hissy, and it's awful - but I think one of the reasons they do it is because so many people stand around muttering "That child needs a good smack" and they feel bullied into it.

But you are totally correct - children need to learn self-discipline, and how can they do that if their primary role models - mam and dad - have so little self-discipline that they lash out?

Excellent post. I wish I'd written it.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

K9Steve said:


> *Tickling? Man that doesn't sound right where I come from! :yikes:*


This man would end up in court these days.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2013)

Yep, there is also that social pressure to be the parent that has their kids under control right? Not very supportive... 

There is no such thing as the perfect parent. We all have *many* moments we are not proud of. I think it would go a long way if we practiced compassion not only towards our own children, but towards fellow parents as well 

The other day I was in the grocery store with my own kids. In the check out line, the child in front of me started having a total meltdown. I caught myself about to be annoyed and judgmental, and then noticed that my daughter (10) started making faces at the kid. This distracted him enough to help the couple get though the rest of their check-out. What a lesson...


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Yeah, I think you should be able to smack your kids, not beatings though.. obviously. 

A smack never did me any harm, and look at the kids today, they know you can't touch them, so don't behave!


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2013)

CharleyRogan said:


> Yeah, I think you should be able to smack your kids, not beatings though.. obviously.
> 
> A smack never did me any harm, and *look at the kids today, they know you can't touch them, so don't behave!*


From the article I posted earlier:


> People throughout history have complained about the trouble with kids today and theyve pinned all the ills of their society on supposedly permissive parenting. Theyve ranted about out-of-control children, disrespectful youth, entitlement, spoiling, disobedience, violence, self-centeredness, etc:
> 
> The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority, they show disrespect to their elders. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and are tyrants over their teachers. ~Socrates, 5th Century BC
> 
> ...


I know you're not the only one who used the "kids today" line, just yours was the easiest post to quote


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> But are they really though? I don't think there is a defined difference at all. Some parents would argue that they are not beating their children, others would disagree - surely this is a not something everyone would agree on.
> 
> IME physical punishment is also defined by the era we grew up in, I'm sure years ago it was acceptable to beat your (wife) & kids -nowadays it's not Whilst I don't think the odd smack is abuse I do find it strange how many people will try & justify the corrections they give out & get very defensive about them. I agree with comments that if a dog/cat was smacked & members openly admitted they did this they would be flamed. How can one be ok but not another?
> 
> If you're not smacking to leave a mark & therefore no real physical punishment then what is the punshment? Surely there must a be a certain amount of pain or fear for it to be an effective punishment, if you look at physical/aversive correction in the dog section then this is always highlighted when people discuss certain forms of punishment


Or maybe a short sharp shock, works - like when I slapped my sons hand when he was under 2, as he was about to stick his fingers in a plug socket.

I said 'burny' very loud as I did it - he never tried it again - he would point to plug sockets and say 'burny'.

Just to clafify, before I get a load of replies saying I should have had socket guards - this was at my mums house, I did have guards at my house - and she got guards after, but she didnt need them - the slap worked.



Supasilvfoxy said:


> <snip>
> Smacking for any reason is abuse, whether it happens once or many times imo. It shows a lack of control and imagination by those that adminster the slap. <snip>


If you want to class me as a child abuser, thats your right.

Just to let you know, I have been witness to a_ real _child abuse case - but you are entitled to your opinion.

Me smacking my sons hand *once* as he was about to stick his fingers in an electric socket, is _nothing_ like a case of child abuse.

The baby I am talking about was 7 months old when it started, and 18 months when he was finally rescued. And none of us that were close, and visiting, more than once a week, even saw it.

He is 15 now, and he remembers. My best friend died of an asthma attack when she was 27. She left a 7 month old son behind. We were friends since we were 5 years old. Her mum is my 'other mum', her sister is the sister I never got by birth. I am 41 years old, and they are my 'other' family, to this day. My 'sister' will be 40 in August.

I was visiting at least once a week - and I saw nothing. Her sister was there every day, and she saw nothing. Her parents had the baby at weekends, they saw nothing.

My best friends parents were taking the baby away to Chester for the weekend, and noticed a sore patch on his head. They took him to the Drs, to make sure he would be OK before a long journey.

The Dr referred them to the hospital. He actually said 'If you dont take him to the hospital, I will be dialling 999'.

Over 30 separate injuries were found on his body, in different stages of healing.

None of us saw, or suspected anything. Do you know how that makes you feel? We saw this baby on a regular basis and none of us saw or suspected anything.

You spend time with a baby on a very regular basis, and you missed it, you didnt see anything, and the whole time you are offering support to the bereaved husband....

Oh, and if the child is under 2 years of age, its not in thier best interests to prosecute (according to social services). He was found guilty, after saying he would admit to one particular injury, if they dropped the sexual abuse accusations. I didnt mention the friction burns where a certain appendage was tied up with string did I?

Please, don't _ever_ class people that smack/slap their children, once or twice, out of fear, as child abusers.

I _know _a child abuser. I was visiting his house while he was abusing. I have seen the police photographs of each separate injury. I didn't see it. None of us saw it. I was friends with him since we had been at school.

Yes, many parents will slap/smack a child out of fear of what _might_ have happened.

Parents are humans - we cant predict what will or might occur - my Jake was on reigns/wrist strap most of the time. One time he wasn't, he decided it would be a great game to let go and run to the road. He was 3 years old.

I raced after him and grabbed him, then I slapped his legs.

That doesnt make me a bad parent. This doesnt make me a child abuser.

It makes me a scared parent.

Having seen (graphically, and emotionally) the effects of child abuse, I actually take great offence, at being called a child abuser, because I have slapped my son a couple of times in 21 years.


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## gem88 (Jun 2, 2012)

my son has had the odd smack and i do mean odd. it was never hard enough to hurt just enough to know he'd done wrong, for example being told several times to touch and reaching yet again for a hot iron. i smacked his hand away and he didnt do it again.
my friend brings up my god daughter the same. it does not make us child abusers. 
i was smacked as a child, it didnt do me any harm. 

i do believe there is a line that mustnt be crossed, there are some parents who are ott with it. but as long as its not over done i dont see the harm


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## CoolDog (Oct 24, 2012)

When I have to discipline my children, I try to change their behavior by using positive methods, similar to using positive reinforcement dog training methods, before I smack them. So far that seems to be working even though I wonder how long that will last. You see, it worked on my first child, but my second child is pushing my buttons, because he is doing some things he shouldn't be doing. According to him, he's "having a little fun and it isn't hurting anyone." Wait until he pushes the wrong button and he will feel his behind getting hot! :incazzato:


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> Or maybe a short sharp shock, works - like when I slapped my sons hand when he was under 2, as he was about to stick his fingers in a plug socket.
> 
> I said 'burny' very loud as I did it - he never tried it again - he would point to plug sockets and say 'burny'.
> 
> ...


"The lady doth protest too much methinks!"

Hey! I was abused as a child, as I've said at least twice in this thread so far - I was beaten periodically by nuns when I was in a convent, so you don't have to lecture me on child abuse as I know exactly what it feels like.

*In any dangerous situation it is far better and safer to scoop up your child than to slap it.* It's the emotional damage that slapping does to your child, not the physical, though a slap can sting and does, the actual physical side of it doesn't last, unless the slap is so hard as to leave a bruise that is. And..in many cases slapping doesn't stop there, especially if a parent/or adult sees it hasn't worked, it escalates into actual beatings, which can lead to maiming and even death.

I've given my opinion in previous posts and I don't have a lot more to say on the matter, except maybe that my daughter works with child abuse cases as her job, she is a solicitor and represents the social services on behalf of all children in our area and from her experience as well as my own, slapping can be just the beginning of a slippery slope.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

gem88 said:


> i was smacked as a child, it didnt do me any harm.


but how do you know? how can you possibly know what you wouldve been like if you hadnt been smacked as a child... i mean the same goes for people who werent smacked ofc, they cant know how they wouldve turned out if they had been.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> "The lady doth protest too much methinks"


Really? What exactly are you trying to imply with that little pearl of wisdom?


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2013)

Our kids got the odd tap on the bum when they were little...


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I was smacked as a child and it did'nt do me any harm but on the other hand it did'nt do me any good,I actually thought thats what you did and the times I smacked the dog for being naughty which if I saw a child do that now I would be horrified .Also I once put on Dog Chat I had smacked my dog on the bum and I was the worst dog owner ever invented to some.:blush2:


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2013)

porps said:


> but how do you know? how can you possibly know what you wouldve been like if you hadnt been smacked as a child... i mean the same goes for people who werent smacked ofc, they cant know how they wouldve turned out if they had been.


It's a bit like saying our mothers drank and smoked when they were pregnant with us and we turned out just fine 

Sure, we did turn out fine, but not BECAUSE of the odd smack here or there, but DESPITE the odd smack here or there.

And many did not turn out just fine...


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I do not really smack..it is just a clap and and "go, off you go"..meaning no more discussion, stop such nonsense etc...
for my cheekies have mouths like injury lawyers!

my son actually threated me to call police becaue: I shouted at him ! (he was running rounds tossing my mobile up and down!!!)...:cursing:,...considering he is bigger than me!

..he was told he is welcome to it...we can sit and have a nice little chat...and asif he does not want tobe accused of wasting police time ..I  might...

too many "Blue Line " meetings in their schools I think...

I also think that it very much depends on your and your child temper too...
and that many very nice people are so concerned about disciplining their kids that the kids are truly horrid...


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2013)

> cheekyscrip said:
> 
> 
> > my son actually threated me to call police becaue: I shouted at him !
> ...


Nope... no irony there...


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> *"The lady doth protest too much methinks!"*
> 
> Hey! I was abused as a child, as I've said at least twice in this thread so far - I was beaten periodically by nuns when I was in a convent, so you don't have to lecture me on child abuse as I know exactly what it feels like.
> 
> ...


You are out of order. So because in your and your daughters experience (screw anyone else's) people who give their children the odd smack are on the road to be child abusers? Seriously? Yes you experienced something horrid that no child should, doesn't mean you know everything about how it starts. And if a slap doesn't work it can lead to maimings and death? seriously?? not with normal people it doesn't. if you can do that to your child then you already have something wrong and no amount of abstaining from smacking will take away from that.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

redroses2106 said:


> do you think parents should be allowed to smack their children again?
> 
> I am not talking about abuse or regular beatings but a smack on the bum or slap on the back of the hand for being naughty/cheeky.


Yes, I did smack my children but it was never done in temper or anger. its the parents that hold their children up by one hand a beat them like a pinyarta 
you should be allowed to discipline your child,


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

When i was little and was naughty i'd get a short and sharp smack on the bum or wrist... It was never abusive. However, i think in some cases smacking goes to the parent's head and the they go all "power happy" on the child. 

I remember a few months back, i offered to take my boyfriend to his JSA that week. I had to sit outside the school and wait for him... My cat, who's a wierdo anyway, had decided to join this trip by sneaking into my car when i wasn't looking. So while i was waiting, i let him roam around the car. There was a mum walking with her child, i had the window slightly open so i could hear her shouting at this child who was walking/running and stumbling a bit as she was only a toddler and we all know they can't really run very far... If they can they're very well balanced! But this poor kid... She was really trying to keep up and look like she was out of breath. Her mum stopped and the kid caught up, but the mum grabbed the child by the wrist and basically dragged her. Jeremy, my cat by this point was sitting watching the whole thing on the dashboard of my car, the kid saw Jeremy and was pointing at him saying "kitty!" and she was smiling. For her mum to give her a huge whallop, i didn't see where she hit her, but i heard the sound of it. Of which point i turned and looked at her and i think she suddenly realized i'd seen her hit her child as the poor girl screamed so loud... Only for the mum to swear loads at her... She obviously thought i couldn't hear her then >.< And then picked up the girl and walked away as if nothing had just happened... In a way, i really wish i'd gotten out of my car and shouted at her... But i was in shock and hoping i had seen it. She seemed like she was one of them mum's who'd had a kid at a young age, got given a council house and really couldn't give a toss for her child sort of person... Especially not to understand that the poor thing can't keep up with her, she only has little legs! 

I don't regret getting a smack when i was little, but i was never struck like that little girl was. I think that's where it has got out of hand. 

But when i was smacked as a child, i NEVER done whatever i done wrong EVER again!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> And..*in many cases* slapping doesn't stop there, especially if a parent/or adult sees it hasn't worked, it escalates into actual beatings, which can lead to maiming and even death.
> 
> I've given my opinion in previous posts and I don't have a lot more to say on the matter, except maybe that my daughter works with child abuse cases as her job, she is a solicitor and represents the social services on behalf of all children in our area and from her experience as well as my own, slapping *can* be just the beginning of a slippery slope.


With respect, I would have to suggest that the majority of responsible and loving parents who made a choice to occasionally employ physical discipline would also:

a) discontinue any form of discipline that proved ineffective - if you are achieving nothing, increasing the amount of nothing producer still results in nothing.
b) take exception to the suggestion that escalation to beatings is the commonplace ending to choosing to smack occasionally

My parents occasionally smacked, and I mean occasionally - they were such a rare occurance I only actually remember one instance of mine, and I most definitely earned that one! I know there were one or two more, but I don't recall them specifically, and we were never threatened with 'do you want a smack' or similar either. I DO remember that the aftermath of a smack was regarded as extremely important, as very shortly after we were always comforted and reassured, and an explanation given - not an apology, but an reasoning through of what had brought about the smack. I certainly didn't reoffend on the issue I recall.

What happened to you was inexcusable, and I don't doubt the cases your sister deals with are either. But I think a loving parent to choosing to give an occasional measured smack is a different thing entirely.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> Really? What exactly are you trying to imply with that little pearl of wisdom?


Nothing subversive, Simply! that your reply to my post was a rather long one.

We each have our own opinions, each of value, from completely different views - mine first hand - yours from an observers perspective.

I'm not obviously going to change your opinion anymore than you are going to change mine.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Nope... no irony there...


sadly...there is actually......now I sometimes wish I was much more strict...
and I should have been...
I am very far from perfect mother ..and have no licence to breed...
BYB exposed...


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> sadly...there is actually......now I sometimes wish I was much more strict...
> and I should have been...
> I am very far from perfect mother ..and have no licence to breed...
> *BYB exposed.*..


 I know this is a serious subject but that really did make me chuckle


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> You are out of order. So because in your and your daughters experience (screw anyone else's) people who give their children the odd smack are on the road to be child abusers? Seriously? Yes you experienced something horrid that no child should, doesn't mean you know everything about how it starts. And if a slap doesn't work it can lead to maimings and death? seriously?? not with normal people it doesn't. if you can do that to your child then you already have something wrong and no amount of abstaining from smacking will take away from that.


Well! I seem to have rattled someone's cage. Firstly! I can't for the life of me see why you think I am *out of order* and secondly I don't *screw anyone elses opinion* as you so politely put, it either.

Surely, our children have the right to expect the same protection of the law that adults have. If someone hits their partner, male or female, they can be prosecuted by law for domestic violence. Is that fair?

It's not just me or my daughter that hold the view that smacking a child is a form of child abuse. Smacking: An 'acceptable' form of child abuse - Opinion - Al Jazeera English Smacking is prohibited under UN Law, already 33 countries have a no smacking policy written into their constitution. Unfortunately, it's taking Great Britain a while to catch up. When we have a minister for justice that talks common-sense, instead of out-dated and inane drivel, hopefully we will join those other countries in banning smacking also.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Well! I seem to have rattled someone's cage. Firstly! I can't for the life of me see why you think I am *out of order* and secondly I don't *screw anyone elses opinion* as you so politely put, it either.
> 
> Surely, our children have the right to expect the same protection of the law that adults have. If someone hits their partner, male or female, they can be prosecuted by law for domestic violence. Is that fair?
> 
> It's not just me or my daughter that hold the view that smacking a child is a form of child abuse. Smacking: An 'acceptable' form of child abuse - Opinion - Al Jazeera English Smacking is prohibited under UN Law, already 33 countries have a no smacking policy written into their constitution. Unfortunately, it's taking Great Britain a while to catch up. When we have a minister for justice that talks common-sense, instead of out-dated and inane drivel, hopefully we will join those other countries in banning smacking also.


.....

dialogs I ov reheard from babes mouths :
"Because of YOU I got slap on the bot!" complained punished dd to the punished ds..
"Lucky you! Because of YOU Mum took my playstation away" moaned ds...

Big ds to lil ds :"What would you rather : get a slap or not watch TV? or not go out?
Lil ds: "Get a slap"...
BIg ds moaning: "It is so unfair..I never get slaps anymore..it is always the TV or I am grounded..."

Which shows : tap on the bot is very low regarded as punishment...

and also does not seem to matter ...

I can see just absurd situation where parents get dragged to the court..or just are to scared to react - and many are already...

There are many unruly kids...parents cdo not much..teachers cannot do anything at all...(if you put kid on the bench parents come howling aboyut his "rights")..

Children should not be beaten or shaken etc...obviously...and Istood upo to a child abuser and had my car burnt in return...

Take parents to the court for a slap on the bot?
Absurd and actually potentially very damaging...


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2013)

I thought this was an interesting and relevant article.

Maternal Warmth Doesn't Make Spanking Less Harmful | StopSpanking.org



> Many people believe that if a mother spanks her child, but is generally warm and affectionate toward her child, the spanking will not be harmful. The fact is, science does not support this cultural belief. We have known for some time that spanking is strongly linked to increased aggression in young children. Recent research in a study of over 3,000 children now shows that the warmth of the mother does not prevent the negative effects of spanking. This means children who are spanked are at much greater risk for being more aggressive  period. A mothers warmth does not decrease the risk. Wow! How can that be?


The rest of the article explains how a child's brain develops and how spanking can be detrimental to brain development.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Is this article referring to people that _regularly_ use spanking as a punishment, or to anyone that has _ever_ slapped/spanked a child, regardless of how many times its happened?

Personally, I don't believe one or two slaps all through childhood is going to alter my sons brain and make him more agressive than he would have been without a couple of slaps.

Although I _can_ see, that if spanking was a regular occurance, for any reason, that it _may_ happen.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> Is this article referring to people that _regularly_ use spanking as a punishment, or to anyone that has _ever_ slapped/spanked a child, regardless of how many times its happened?
> 
> Personally, I don't believe one or two slaps all through childhood is going to alter my sons brain and make him more agressive than he would have been without a couple of slaps.
> 
> Although I _can_ see, that if spanking was a regular occurance, for any reason, that it _may_ happen.


The article has a link to the actual neuroscience research that backs up the findings.

Everything is a risk really. No child escapes childhood unscathed no matter what you do. I'm just putting information out there


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

in a nutshell - yes. its about time discipline was brought back, maybe then we wouldn't have so much crime on the streets


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

ouesi said:


> The article has a link to the actual neuroscience research that backs up the findings.
> 
> Everything is a risk really. No child escapes childhood unscathed no matter what you do. I'm just putting information out there


I read the link, but it doesnt actually specify if its talking about one or two slaps thoughout the entire childhood, or spanking being used as a regular punishment throughout childhood.

Surely anyone can see there is *huge* difference between receiving a couple of slaps between birth and adulthood, to receiving a weekly spanking in the same timeframe?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Have to agree with MCWillow on this one, I didn't find that article particularly clear about the criteria used in the research or the statistical breakdown of the results by category. I also read the abstract of the paper linked to (I'd have had to have paid to read the article), and that also didn't say whether they were referring to parents who use smacking as an everyday disciplinary method or those who use it, say, less than once a month (or less than once a year in my personal experience) for exceptional circumstances only.

Looking at it in conjunction with the questions in the ACE calculation thingy, I'd be inclined to suspect the conclusions would relate more to the use of smacking as an everyday diciplinary method, unless they are seriously suggesting that half a dozen smacks over the course of a childhood will stunt mental growth. I can merrily say it had no such effect on me, I do Sudoku in Hexidecimal and Mensa puzzles for fun


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> I read the link, but it doesnt actually specify if its talking about one or two slaps thoughout the entire childhood, or spanking being used as a regular punishment throughout childhood.
> 
> Surely anyone can see there is *huge* difference between receiving a couple of slaps between birth and adulthood, to receiving a weekly spanking in the same timeframe?


There is a lot of research available on spanking and it's effects on children and the adults they become.

Like anything in brain development, we simply don't know what percentage is nature and what percentage is nurture. What is the tipping point that causes some older women to have children with downs syndrome while other older women don't?

Much like we don't quite understand why some children who's mothers drink during pregnancy end up with FAS and others don't. No one knows what the "safe" amount of alcohol is. For me the risk/reward of a glass of wine wasn't worth it, but I'm certainly not going to look askance at a pregnant woman who enjoys a rare glass of wine.

So like with spanking, no one knows what is the "safe" amount. Some children will have genetic and environmental factors that make a rare hand slap relatively insignificant to their development, while another child that rare slap could be the tipping point. We simply don't know.

The way I see it, since corporal punishment in any form is not only unnecessary, but doesn't accomplish what we think it does, it's not worth the risk to me.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I am in a mixed mind about it. 

I was smacked and shouted at by my father, and it just made me scared of him, I was also scared of my mum as she shouted and threatened me a lot.

I only recall my grandmother smacking me once for something rather strange actually, and I had far more respect for her and more importantly I wasn't afraid of her.

I see children these days who have no respect but I don't know if smacking is the right thing to do or if some of these modern parents have a different way of parenting that means the child/children don't have so much respect.

It is not just the parents fault, I think schools have something to do with it as well, when I was at school the cane etc was no longer allowed but we had respect for our teachers (well most of them ), I think they were stricter etc back then, these days children can run rings round their teachers and nothing can be done. 

I think children should be smacked to save them from something far worse - i.e. burning themselves or running into the road. Otherwise try and reason, don't scare them into obeying, that just causes (at least if I am anything to go by) a nervous wreak as an adult


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

ouesi said:


> There is a lot of research available on spanking and it's effects on children and the adults they become.
> 
> Like anything in brain development, we simply don't know what percentage is nature and what percentage is nurture. What is the tipping point that causes some older women to have children with downs syndrome while other older women don't?
> 
> ...


Thats just it. Everything I have found on google talks about spanking as if it is a regular punishment.

That is totally different to one or two slaps (from birth to adulthood), especially ones which are given as a 'deterrent' to something far more painful, and potentionally lethal, rather than as a punishment for 'wrongdoing'.

Nature vs nurture will never be answered. In some people it will be nature, some it will be nurture, and some it will be a combination.

Examination of the Psychology of Serial Killers


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