# Want to start a Doggie Day Care



## Crystal Palace Doggie Day (Mar 28, 2011)

Hello All,

I would like to start a second branch of Doggie Day Care but I have no idea what area to choose. The three main options are; Central London, smaller premises, charge more but can only offer services to those who already live in Central London as many wont want to commute with a Dog.

Option 2: Pick a busy commuter station for a premises

Option 3: Any kind of area not too far from London but have pick up and drop off.

Each has its good and bad points.

Any tips or ideas from anyone else would be great? Many thanks!


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm doing daycare from home at the moment, which includes pick up and drop off. I did it that way because it means I'm free to choose which 6 hours we do (so 9-3 or 10-4, 11-5 etc) within reason to fit in with our dog walking schedule, but I have got a bit fed up with doing the drop offs when it's cold and I'm tired! During summer when I was able to use my dog training centre as a base it wasn't so bad as I was *out* at work so dropped them off on my way home.

I think if you choose a station, it might be awkward for owners to still get their dogs to you if they have to commute to that station, so if I worked in London and came into Liv Street I'd love daycare for my dog, but wouldnt want to drag any of them in on a rush hour train to get there. 

Have you done your demographics for the area you want?


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## Crystal Palace Doggie Day (Mar 28, 2011)

BoredomBusters said:


> I'm doing daycare from home at the moment, which includes pick up and drop off. I did it that way because it means I'm free to choose which 6 hours we do (so 9-3 or 10-4, 11-5 etc) within reason to fit in with our dog walking schedule, but I have got a bit fed up with doing the drop offs when it's cold and I'm tired! During summer when I was able to use my dog training centre as a base it wasn't so bad as I was *out* at work so dropped them off on my way home.
> 
> I think if you choose a station, it might be awkward for owners to still get their dogs to you if they have to commute to that station, so if I worked in London and came into Liv Street I'd love daycare for my dog, but wouldnt want to drag any of them in on a rush hour train to get there.
> 
> Have you done your demographics for the area you want?


Hi,

Thanks for the info.

Yes looked at areas and have finally decided to stay in SE London.

My current premises does not offer pick up and drop off, so we choose a location in between two fairly busy stations as people wouldnt want to commute with their Dogs but it means that can drop them and commute in either London Bridge or Victoria at this station. We dont have the tube or tram here though.

Sorry I should have said busy commuter station into London. I figured that a location that many people travel FROM to London, might be a good option.

I have found what I think is the perfect 2nd premises so far and it has two train stations and a tube, plus I know the area well and is about a 20 minute drive to the City, it also has an outdoor yard, so fingers crossed for this one. Its such a mare finding a premises!

Why cant you use your training centre? Thats a real shame. Have you got no indoor space or could you not think about a non-permanent structure you coould have heated to run your DDC?


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

It's got indoor and outdoor space, but they aren't properly connected - they're close, and it's only 50 yards, but I really wanted them attached so dogs could run in or out as needed. 

I think I just took too much on, I do training as well, so people want me in the day, but I can't leave the dogs. I looked into getting an apprentice, so I could leave to do a session then come back, but the college I was going through said I couldn't leave an apprentice alone, which defeats the object. 

Sorry about the confusion re stations, where you mention stations into London, I think they are already in London...


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## Crystal Palace Doggie Day (Mar 28, 2011)

BoredomBusters said:


> It's got indoor and outdoor space, but they aren't properly connected - they're close, and it's only 50 yards, but I really wanted them attached so dogs could run in or out as needed.
> 
> I think I just took too much on, I do training as well, so people want me in the day, but I can't leave the dogs. I looked into getting an apprentice, so I could leave to do a session then come back, but the college I was going through said I couldn't leave an apprentice alone, which defeats the object.
> 
> Sorry about the confusion re stations, where you mention stations into London, I think they are already in London...


Do you mean Day Cares already in London or you thought I meant stations in 
London? haha Sorry, getting confused!

So where are you based at the moment? I see what you mean about your issue with the centre. Can you not organise your training so that training clients visit your centre, that way you can run your Day Care with an apprentice and she can take over managing Day Care, whilst your doing a training session but you will still be on site. Staffing can be an issue for Day Care. Ive got one member of staff at the moment and having to employ another in June and thats only for 15-20 Dogs!

Alternatively, have you thought about handing over the Day Care to someone else at an agreed monthly cost, almost like renting out your premises but still having involvement. I know a lady near me who due to ill health needed to hand over her Day Care but it wasn't organised or established enough to sell, so she found another young woman who wanted to run a Day Care but wasn't in a position to set up herself. She charged her a percentage of each months profits to run it and she was able to take it back after her ops which lasted about a year. Seems a shame to just have it sat there?


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

I can't look after dogs and a client at the same time. Our insurance is no more than 6 dogs per person, so for the numbers you are talking about we'd need 3 people, and I prefer 4 dogs per person.

I'm looking into franchising, so there might be an opportunity there. I'm also still on the look out for better premises.


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## Crystal Palace Doggie Day (Mar 28, 2011)

BoredomBusters said:


> I can't look after dogs and a client at the same time. Our insurance is no more than 6 dogs per person, so for the numbers you are talking about we'd need 3 people, and I prefer 4 dogs per person.
> 
> I'm looking into franchising, so there might be an opportunity there. I'm also still on the look out for better premises.


I meant having your apprentice taking cafe of Day Care, whilst you are nearby, on the same grounds training. We have a separate room here with a large clear, plastic window, so I can see my staff with the Dogs, while I am consulting with a client in the other room...that was along the lines of what I was thinking.

Wow, only 6 Dogs? What kind of insurance do you have? Our insurance doesn't limit us with a ratio to Dogs per person for our centre, never heard of that before. Our license tells us how many Dogs we can have per sqft of our centre but not our insurance :-0


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Actually that was with Cliverton, I changed last year, so might check that. But I prefer to keep numbers of dogs low and staff high. Interested in what sq ftg you are allowed per dog? When I researched I couldn't find anything, so went with one dog per 100sq ft which is the number for people in offices etc.

I can't do most of the dog training with other dogs around, some of them are quite remedial, and I do a lot of young puppies who aren't vaccinated, so I have to go to their homes - we're in the country so it's too much of a risk, even if we could disinfect the hall. I might think on that idea though. I don't think our current set up would be suitable, but it's worth planning for if I do decide to move premises in the future.


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## Crystal Palace Doggie Day (Mar 28, 2011)

BoredomBusters said:


> Actually that was with Cliverton, I changed last year, so might check that. But I prefer to keep numbers of dogs low and staff high. Interested in what sq ftg you are allowed per dog? When I researched I couldn't find anything, so went with one dog per 100sq ft which is the number for people in offices etc.
> 
> I can't do most of the dog training with other dogs around, some of them are quite remedial, and I do a lot of young puppies who aren't vaccinated, so I have to go to their homes - we're in the country so it's too much of a risk, even if we could disinfect the hall. I might think on that idea though. I don't think our current set up would be suitable, but it's worth planning for if I do decide to move premises in the future.


Ah I see! Yes I suspected much of your training may not be suitable with other Dogs around but wasnt sure of your set up as it would be possible in my centre but then not in another.

100sqft per Dog is a good guideline and typically what Animal Welfare will allow. I go on about 10 Dogs to one staff. All Dogs are assessed and in my experience, the risk is no greater if you have 10 or 30, so long as staff are supervising, IF a fight breaks out, it will be between 2 Dogs and will need one or two people to separate.

The American guidelines for Dog Day Care is 50sqft per average size Dog. My centre is 1300sqft, meaning I could have 26 Dogs but licensing will never allow this is such space. When I have 15 in I look at the space and think, how am I going to manage another 5! But you find the more Dogs you have, the more energy they use in a shorter amount of the time and much of the Day is spent napping, which doesn't require much space.

They all have enough space to run around and be safe, which I guess is the main thing.

Do you know where you want your 2nd premises? I am my viewing booked for Monday so quite excited about it . This time its 5,000 sqft with large outdoor yard, so I have to be honest, its quite daunting too, not to mention expensive but hay I love the business!


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

I wouldn't take on a second place, I'd move. I have enough to worry about without taking on two rents, lol! Another company is supposedly moving into the area, so I'm not too fussed about really getting going with it.

I really don't want to have that many dogs per staff, we like to do games and activities - I did some games yesterday with 10 dogs on my own (4 were mine, 1 was a staff dog) which is the limit for my home boarding licence, and yes you are right if they are the right dogs and you have good control, you can carefully manage them. But the dogs that need extra help with the games get left out as the dogs that are experienced rush round doing all the good stuff. I'd prefer separate rooms with the dogs split into 'advanced' and 'novice' and have a person with each. I felt it was safe, but not 'fair' to all the dogs. They did sleep flat out after that, more than after a walk!

Also I couldn't walk that many alone, and we always give all the dogs an offsite walk.

Thanks for the info about the square footage though, we assess all the dogs, so we dont' take in resource guarders which is usually what causes fights in my experience.


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## Crystal Palace Doggie Day (Mar 28, 2011)

BoredomBusters said:


> I wouldn't take on a second place, I'd move. I have enough to worry about without taking on two rents, lol! Another company is supposedly moving into the area, so I'm not too fussed about really getting going with it.
> 
> I really don't want to have that many dogs per staff, we like to do games and activities - I did some games yesterday with 10 dogs on my own (4 were mine, 1 was a staff dog) which is the limit for my home boarding licence, and yes you are right if they are the right dogs and you have good control, you can carefully manage them. But the dogs that need extra help with the games get left out as the dogs that are experienced rush round doing all the good stuff. I'd prefer separate rooms with the dogs split into 'advanced' and 'novice' and have a person with each. I felt it was safe, but not 'fair' to all the dogs. They did sleep flat out after that, more than after a walk!
> 
> ...


Hi, yep definitely not a second premises if your not getting on great with the first. Id love to have just the one, bigger place but ive build up a large client base here now and wouldn't want to close it or move my current clients around.

We have a good bunch here and are pretty lucky with games. Theres one or two that try to dominate but the Dogs learn to stick up for themselfs and learn they have to integrate. We dont allow Dogs to continue at Day Care if they are continuously left out/ stressed and so on because of the nature of what we do but you have given me food for thought of the second one. Although I have a puppy section and "quite" Dog and "main play" section, in my bigger place, a section for the more easily intimidated Dogs would be good, as we currently don't and cannot cater for them. If I was to only take 10 Dogs, I would just about cover staff and rent on the premises, so unfortunately here we have to take more Dogs, which means more Dogs that are all pretty much the same in temperament but id love to cater for older/ slower/ more submissive characters in the future . I might name it O.A.Ps corner haha. I looked after my Dog in his old Days (he lived until 17.5 years) and he could NEVER have come to somewhere like this in his last 3 or 4 years, so I certainly love the idea that you can create a soft and safe heaven for those gentler souls. My pack are made up of those who enjoy rough play and are quick on their feet, not suitable for elderly or disabled fellows.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

It's really interesting to talk to people who already doing it! I don't allow rough play - it's something I picked up from the behaviour training, as well as experiences through dog walking (although the problems it causes there are slightly different as not 'contained'). Also I never segregate puppies except at naptime, which is another reason for me not to allow rough play.

My hall isn't big enough to have separate areas, especially as I run training classes there too, but that would be my dream. Lovely converted warehouse or barn, with nap areas, OAP areas, active dogs play area and socialable but more laid back area, etc. With a supervisor each.  It's another reason why I'm giving up - to get that you need to charge more than people want to pay, when there is something cheaper nearby. Especally as most of the owners really just want company and exercise for their dogs, they aren't that worried if we do games and activities or just let the dogs rough play all day as long as they're not alone and tired when they get home.

I think it's just me enjoying playing with the dogs.


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## Crystal Palace Doggie Day (Mar 28, 2011)

BoredomBusters said:


> It's really interesting to talk to people who already doing it! I don't allow rough play - it's something I picked up from the behaviour training, as well as experiences through dog walking (although the problems it causes there are slightly different as not 'contained'). Also I never segregate puppies except at naptime, which is another reason for me not to allow rough play.
> 
> My hall isn't big enough to have separate areas, especially as I run training classes there too, but that would be my dream. Lovely converted warehouse or barn, with nap areas, OAP areas, active dogs play area and socialable but more laid back area, etc. With a supervisor each.  It's another reason why I'm giving up - to get that you need to charge more than people want to pay, when there is something cheaper nearby. Especally as most of the owners really just want company and exercise for their dogs, they aren't that worried if we do games and activities or just let the dogs rough play all day as long as they're not alone and tired when they get home.
> 
> I think it's just me enjoying playing with the dogs.


I personally don't see the problem with rough play? They are Dogs and they will interact with each other through this kind of play, its really interesting to watch how they communicate through play, it actually enables them to establish their place in the pack. None of them are aggressive, so its not a problem. Its also vital they learn boundaries without human intervention, puppies need to tumble with each other and be told off by other Dogs to learn what is acceptable etc. As for price, half of my clients have been coming to be for well over a year now, 5 Days a week, every Day and pay £18 a Day so people do pay the price. Look at other larger Day Cares and see what they charge and how busy they are!

If you are committed to Day Care you will do well and people do want it, you just need to be 100% committed which obviously you cant be at the moment what with the space you have and the training.

Good luck with looking for a better place though, I do hope you find something and get your dream


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Thanks! Its just the training I have done, an experiences I have had leads me to prefer not rough play, which suits some owners.

I charge £18 for 6 hours, but includes pick up drop off and an offsite hour long walk, my all day costs is £23, but I have to ask for more due to the walk/driving.


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