# Bengal cat viciously attacked me.



## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Edited out. will update asap.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

Right, I can actually help you with all of this but I need to cover a few bases before we go any further. I have owned a bengal who was a psychopath when I got her who turned into a fantastic cat. I also have a wild cat (non domestic cat species) who is very has the potential to be aggressive but I've won his trust - just so you know I have a lot of experience with this. 

Firstly spaying is an absolute must. It will help calm her down but given the level of aggression it won't stop it entirely but it will be your first step in the right direction. Also if you were to rehome her without first having her spayed she would be snapped up by a back yard breeder who would likely make her live outdoors to produce litter after litter of kittens, which would probably also end up aggressive! PLEASE SPAY HER ASAP. 

Has she had a litter before? This might be important, as if she has been used to a breeding cats life style she may have belonged to somebody who made her live in outdoor runs and did not properly handle her if they were an unethical breeder. 

DO NOT SWAT AT HER! Confronting any cat that has wild ancestry is a ridiculous idea, it will only serve to make her angry and she will learn that your hands are to be associated with this and will attack them if she feels threatened by them. 

When you go to approach her and she attacks do you ever lean over her or approach her from above? If so avoid this, approach her gently, slowly towards her and back down if she looks annoyed. Always approach to touch her so she can see your hand coming, this will give her chance to move away/give you warning if she doesn't want to be touched, rather than he getting herself into a panic and lashing out. 

One of the problems you are facing is that aggression is a learnt behavior with a lot of hybrids, she has learnt to attack to protect herself and undoing that is hard, the best way is to totally break the habit by not letting a situation where it is going to happen in the first place arise. She needs to get used to you moving about without touching her/bothering her so that she can start to forget some of the techniques she has learnt to rid herself of unwanted attention. I'd actually suggest sitting in a room with her a lot and totally blanking her for about a week. Make no attempts to pick her up or handle her through this stage and then start again VERY slowly. 

With your other cat, is it male or female? Altered or unaltered? If she has been used as a breeding girl before she may fear that this cat will attempt to mate her. Separate the 2 as this isn't fair on either of them, some bengals never learn to get on with other pets but for now you need to form your own bond with her so that she is less terrified overall in the situation. 

Remember she is frightened, she may seem aggressive and mean but really what you are seeing is a cat that is naturally very highly strung doing what it's instincts are telling it to do to protect itself. 

How old is she? Did you get any paperwork with her? It would help to know what generation she is (eg F5 would mean 5 generations removed from a wild ancestor) most bengals are a long long way down the line from that though. Do you have any pictures of her? 

DO NOT PUT THIS BENGAL ANYWHERE NEAR A RABBIT.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

TigerLileh said:


> Last night she bit me so hard it ripped through my skin and was very painful. My hand is swollen and I have four very obvious teeth marks.


I can't offer any advice as I know nothing about Bengals and have never been in this kind of situation with any cat. But I would strongly urge you to go to your GP asap and ask for some antibiotics. Don't leave it.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> I can't offer any advice as I know nothing about Bengals and have never been in this kind of situation with any cat. *But I would strongly urge you to go to your GP asap and ask for some antibiotics. Don't leave it.*


Second this advice ^^^^^. I had a cat bite recently and needed a tetanus jab and a seven day course of anti bios. Cats have dirty mouths, they lick their own bum (as if you don't already know) so please see your GP today 

With regards to the behavioural issues, I have no experience of Bengals, but I wish you the best of luck with resolving this. You've had some good advice from the member who replied first (sorry can't remember full name - thatfunnylookingcat?????). You could ask your vet to refer you to a feline behaviourist.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Did the owner sell her to you not neutered??? I would have not bought a older Bengal cat into the home with your other cat, it just doesn't work like this at all, bengals get to a certain age they need/want to be alone, they hate other cats, Im sorry to be harsh but you really needed to get a kitten.

She is not neutered she will have hormones running through her, how was she raised? Was she kept indoors? Was she kept outside in a run? How often was her human contact? As bengals need 24-7 human contact to be well socialised! 

She is attacking your hand and lived with dogs before, do you know if the other owners used their hands to hit her? She may have a fear of hands, the situation doesn't sound good at all and WHY is she not neutered? age 2???? 

Bengals do sometimes take to one owner only, and it can be daddies girl, she may even be able to sense that you feel something and protective towards lilly, she can also smell lilly on you  

I would have never advised that you get a older un neutered girl along with a older girl, especially with a Bengal, that's why you normally see older ones with 'no other pets' they want to be with their human, 24-7, she needs to be neutered asap. kept in her own room for at least 4weeks, she has come from a house not neutered with dogs and is now in a home with another cat, you need to start again and slowly just sit with her throw treats near her no touching her, very sad 

oh and as above, you really need to see the doc!


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Firstly spaying is an absolute must. It will help calm her down but given the level of aggression it won't stop it entirely but it will be your first step in the right direction. Also if you were to rehome her without first having her spayed she would be snapped up by a back yard breeder who would likely make her live outdoors to produce litter after litter of kittens, which would probably also end up aggressive! PLEASE SPAY HER ASAP.

*Noted and will mention to partner. He doesn't want to rehome her due to how cute she is around him. 
*
Has she had a litter before? This might be important, as if she has been used to a breeding cats life style she may have belonged to somebody who made her live in outdoor runs and did not properly handle her if they were an unethical breeder.

*She has had one litter before yes. In 2010. She was sold in 2012 to another gentleman and then to use a short while ago due to her "not getting along" with dogs.
*
DO NOT SWAT AT HER! Confronting any cat that has wild ancestry is a ridiculous idea, it will only serve to make her angry and she will learn that your hands are to be associated with this and will attack them if she feels threatened by them.

*Okay noted on the swatting.. I don't aggressively do it I just push her hands away. 
*
When you go to approach her and she attacks do you ever lean over her or approach her from above?

*No. I always kneel down slowly and stroke her head. If she wags her tail or does anything to indicate she's mad I back away just as slowly. She never moves away but I recoil if she gets up too quickly now. 
*
One of the problems you are facing is that aggression is a learnt behavior with a lot of hybrids, she has learnt to attack to protect herself and undoing that is hard, the best way is to totally break the habit by not letting a situation where it is going to happen in the first place arise.

*I'll try this. It sounds like a good idea. I've tried everything else and you seem knowledgable. 
*
With your other cat, is it male or female? Altered or unaltered? If she has been used as a breeding girl before she may fear that this cat will attempt to mate her. Separate the 2 as this isn't fair on either of them, some bengals never learn to get on with other pets but for now you need to form your own bond with her so that she is less terrified overall in the situation.

*Lily is a female, 8 months old neutered bengal. She is curious of Orchid and honestly showed aggression when we first got orchid in the form of growls but has now stopped that. She runs to the door and smells Orchid when she hears her outside the room. I was recently notified this is a bad idea as Orchid may feel intimidated if she can not see her. I've read up a lot and keep getting conflicted stories. 
*
Remember she is frightened, she may seem aggressive and mean but really what you are seeing is a cat that is naturally very highly strung doing what it's instincts are telling it to do to protect itself.

*I'm aware of her fear. I didn't in any way try to push her closer to me or my partner. She likes cuddles is affectionate and cries for attention... but then this. She seems to have been moved from pillar to post and is probably confused and afraid of the change. This is all something I've considered and such. The first day we got her she was very very rowdy and confident and shows no fear even now. The aggression is probably how she shows fear. 
*
How old is she? Did you get any paperwork with her? It would help to know what generation she is (eg F5 would mean 5 generations removed from a wild ancestor) most bengals are a long long way down the line from that though. Do you have any pictures of her?

*I have the paperwork here and yes I have pictures and information of all her previous owners, age she had kittens and we had her health checked and vaccinated. I'm not sure how to find her generation from the paper work? I don't think she is an early gen as I was told they have different ears and such. 
*DO NOT PUT THIS BENGAL ANYWHERE NEAR A RABBIT.

*My other bengal plays with the rabbit. Absolutely adores him and always sits with him haha. I just made the grave mistake of assuming all bengals would be like Lily... that was my bad. The rabbit has never come to any harm because of my other bengal. They're quite fond of each other now. She was only 4 months old when we introduced them though.*


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Taylorbaby said:


> Did the owner sell her to you not neutered??? I would have not bought a older Bengal cat into the home with your other cat, it just doesn't work like this at all, bengals get to a certain age they need/want to be alone, they hate other cats, Im sorry to be harsh but you really needed to get a kitten.
> 
> She is not neutered she will have hormones running through her, how was she raised? Was she kept indoors? Was she kept outside in a run? How often was her human contact? As bengals need 24-7 human contact to be well socialised!
> 
> ...


Taylor I was actually going to message you and ask for help but didn't want to pester you. I asked for a bengal kitten, a little boy as a mate for Lily but my partner wanted an older female. I was OK with it because I'm stupid enough and didn't research this one bloody aspect and now I seem to be living in a cat warzone. I did read younger males don't tend to attack older femaleS (pecking order) so it's much easier to introduce them which was my reasoning for a little kitten and a boy. My illness means I don't handle stress well so I needed it to be a little smoother than this really. I know this isn't fair on anyone involved anymore and I am to blame for my lack of insight and lack of research.

She was raised by a well known breeder. I can send you his name as you've probably heard of him - her pedigree is actually very good and so is her history etc. She and had her only set of kittens with a very well known stud a few years back. She was sold uneutered and the previous owners were not breeders (they bought from the breeder)

She's 3 and not neutered as she was intended for breeding. The last owners paid a lot of money for her and sold to us for 1/3 of the amount because she had issues with dogs. I'm not sure if this is the truth anymore if I'm honest. It sounds like we massively messed up here and I apologise to anyone this may offend/aggravate.

I've held off really begging for advice because I feared something like this would be said. It's my own fault, and I'll take full responsibility for that.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

dougal22 said:


> Second this advice ^^^^^. I had a cat bite recently and needed a tetanus jab and a seven day course of anti bios. Cats have dirty mouths, they lick their own bum (as if you don't already know) so please see your GP today
> 
> With regards to the behavioural issues, I have no experience of Bengals, but I wish you the best of luck with resolving this. You've had some good advice from the member who replied first (sorry can't remember full name - thatfunnylookingcat?????). You could ask your vet to refer you to a feline behaviourist.


My doctor told me no appointments until monday so they won't do it fml.
I'll go to the hospital. Thank you both.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Your cat probably isn't avgressive but defensive. She sounds like a badly socialized breeding queen. Probably been kept in a cage by some backyard breeder. A cat like this must be introduced and socialized very carefully. She does not know humans are her slaves, she considers us possible predators.

I think you should get her spayed right away. It may calm her down quite a bit and she can no longer be taken advantage of by a back yard breeder. Best find this cat a home with people with experience in socializinv ferals. You don't sound like a hivhly experienced cat slave and e en I, with a lifetime of catsperience would hesitate to take on this girl. I could do it if she was to be an only cat but not with my present lot


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> Your cat probably isn't avgressive but defensive. She sounds like a badly socialized breeding queen. Probably been kept in a cage by some backyard breeder. A cat like this must be introduced and socialized very carefully. She does not know humans are her slaves, she considers us possible predators.
> 
> I think you should get her spayed right away. It may calm her down quite a bit and she can no longer be taken advantage of by a back yard breeder. Best find this cat a home with people with experience in socializinv ferals. You don't sound like a hivhly experienced cat slave and e en I, with a lifetime of catsperience would hesitate to take on this girl. I could do it if she was to be an only cat but not with my present lot


I'm 21 and got my first bengal as a gift to help with an illness. I have experience with moggies and such but besides Lily who beyond peeing on my bed and destroying my wires has done nothing wrong at all. She's been such a lovely helpful pet.

I'm going to call the vet re spay later.

She was never with a back yard breeder though. I know that FOR SURe. She was with a very well respected breeder who quit for some reason. She had one litter with a stud from another well known breeder who is also quite highly respected. She had one litter and was kept in the house. It just seems like she is against other animals which is something I should have researched. I don't balme her at all, I blame myself.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

TigerLileh said:


> My doctor told me no appointments until monday so they won't do it fml.
> I'll go to the hospital. Thank you both.


I know what a drag it is sitting in A&E and I know you're already stressed out... but I'm going to make no apologies for again saying 'don't leave it'. I've known a couple of people who had fairly minor looking cat bites to their hands that went untreated initially. Believe me, you don't want to know the rest of the story.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm glad the rabbit is ok, yes if your other cat and the rabbit were introduced at 4 months then it is probably safe for your cat to be around the rabbit, but bengals are funny and I really wouldn't risk the new older bengal who has probably never seen one or been near one. Also these type of cats can have a strong prey drive and she being quite muscular cats they can inflict a lot of damage in a matter of a split second (as i'm sure you are finding out lol). 

This is going to sound a bit odd but what do you feed her? Bengals notoriously have digestive issues, have you seen anything to indicate this? I have found feeding raw food actually mellows them! So this might be something you want to look into. 

Also with putting her in the cat carrier I don't think it's a good idea. She may learn to associate the carrier with feeling trapped (which is going to be very problematic if you ever find yourself having to get her in a carrier in an emergency situation especially given her tendency to bite/scratch). Bengals often retain a lot of the wild instincts which means they hate feeling trapped/cornered and a carrier does exactly this! 

I agree with another poster who said they can be one person cats, you may find that she never really takes to you but that's no reason she won't tolerate you. My wild cat tolerates my partner but that's as far as it goes. My partner is quite nervous around him too in certain situations (like if he needs to be handled) so I do all the getting him into carriers etc alone as a nervous stressed person causes more problems as the cats pick up on it. 

To be honest I'm actually glad that this cat has ended up with you, somebody less responsible would likely keep passing her around without even trying to address the issues and lying to prospect new owners about the extent of her problems (as has happened to you). It's good that you have come on here for help rather than just giving up.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> I know what a drag it is sitting in A&E and I know you're already stressed out... but I'm going to make no apologies for again saying 'don't leave it'. I've known a couple of people who had fairly minor looking cat bites to their hands that went untreated initially. Believe me, you don't want to know the rest of the story.


Hospital just insisted I go in anyway. So I'll be back to check this thread in three ish hours. Thanks everyone for advice/future advice.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Also she has been calling for over 2 years now with no respite - this will not help her at all - all those hormones and frustrations as well as the fact it's very unhealthy for her. 

Follow all of TBs advise and go right back to the beginning - a week isn't long enough to do introductions at all. Give her a safe room and keep her in it and it only for a good few weeks. 

Hopefully she will calm down - but many Bengals only want to be a solitary single cat in a household and she may just be one of those. It's just a breed trait.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Great advice from thatsafunnylookingcat:thumbup1: I agree with all the advice she gives in terms of getting your Bengal to calm down in the way she relates to you. At present the cat is treating (nearly all) the attention you give her as 'unwanted' because she feels her personal space is not being respected and she is not being given a say in the matter as to when she is stroked etc. .

I completely agree with the need to get your cat spayed a.s.a.p. At present her hormones must be raging, as she keeps coming into heat and not being mated. I am sure spaying her will have a very beneficial effect on her temper. (I wonder why the last owner didn't have her spayed Perhaps they were intending to breed from her...)

But when it comes to the Bengal's relationship with your other cat, that is a different matter. Unfortunately the relationship has got off to a very bad start, and when this happens with cats, frankly it can be very difficult, even impossible, to change.  Certainly it is not right at all that poor Lily should be bullied and attacked in her own home, so it is essential you keep the 2 cats apart from now on, until there is a huge improvement in the Bengal's relationship with you for a start.

Incidentally I can hardly believe your vet would say "put the 2 cats together and let them fight it out":frown2: Ridiculous, when Lily is being attacked so viciously and is so frightened. Apart from the risk of being seriously injured, there is also the risk she could develop a stress-related illness or stress-related behavioural problems. Which would add to your troubles.

Vets often know little about cat behaviour, and it is best to seek the advice of a pet behaviourist if you want professional advice.

So that you don't have to restrict each cat too much it is best to divide the house up by fitting a screen door (or solid door) say a the bottom of the stairs, or half way along the hall, and give each cat half the house as their territory, with Lily getting the best part of the deal.

There is no question at present of trying to integrate them. The Bengal is far too angry and unsettled. So that should wait for some future as yet unknown date. My concern tbh, is that the Bengal wants to be the only cat and will never accept Lily, but it is certainly worth trying to integrate them.

Re: the bite on your hand, if if your hand is swollen you need antibiotics from your GP. There are millions of bacteria in a cat's mouth, just as there are in a human mouth, (far more than you would find on a cat's bottom) and most cats do not even get their teeth cleaned daily like humans do!! 

If you had soaked your hand every 2 hours for 15 mins in a saline solution immediately after the bite happened you might possibly have prevented infection, but I am afraid it is too late now for that, and you need ABs.

In case you decide to consult a professional cat behaviourist this organisation is excellent:

CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers

Good Luck, please let us know how things go?


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> I'm glad the rabbit is ok, yes if your other cat and the rabbit were introduced at 4 months then it is probably safe for your cat to be around the rabbit, but bengals are funny and I really wouldn't risk the new older bengal who has probably never seen one or been near one. Also these type of cats can have a strong prey drive and she being quite muscular cats they can inflict a lot of damage in a matter of a split second (as i'm sure you are finding out lol).
> 
> This is going to sound a bit odd but what do you feed her? Bengals notoriously have digestive issues, have you seen anything to indicate this? I have found feeding raw food actually mellows them! So this might be something you want to look into.
> 
> ...


I'm going to respond to this quickly and then I have to dash. Hopsital waiting hours are high right now . We didn't let the rabbit out of the cage near her. She hissed through the bars and he did his usual "i don't care" stare at her haha.

She's on dry kibble right now and we were told that's all she ate. We have tried her on felix and whiskas (I KNOW BAD!) just for the time being until we can get her some decent food. Lily will only eat felix (something I'm slowly planning on weining her from) and Orchid came with no wet food so it was just there I guess. We feed lily dead baby chicks and she loves them but she won't eat raw meat otherwise. We'll try orchid on a raw diet only and see how she copes.

Sounds like your cat is like Orchid. She's all for my partner and is not very fond of me at all. I'm OK with that, she can be indifferent but I can't have her attacking me and forcing me to get a tetnus jab again .

I care about animals a lot and although I got really angry yesterday and said she had to go I would not just give up on her. She's very fond of my partner and that is something in this whole mess. I'm not afraid to ask for help and I do feel like the whole story hadn't been told to us. I told them I had another cat and such and they said they had no clue how she'd react but she hated dogs. They didn't tell us she was aggressive or had tendencies like this or anything though. I think she probably got scared by the dogs and became this way over the 6 months she was there.

It hurts me a lot that I've made this mistake if I'm honest. I feel like I've probably set her back a bit. If she could get along without the aggravation that would be okay but for her to attack me - it's not something I can just let happen all the time. I think if anything I've learned my lesson now and won't be putting another animal through this unnecessarily.


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## Cazzer (Feb 1, 2010)

To be honest you say the previous owners weren't back yard breeders but neither were they totally responsible. Why was a queen left to call for several years without mating apart from once. That could cause her severe health problems. Also why did they sell an un neutered queen to you? For all they knew you could have been a BSB yourself!!

Hope you get on ok at hospital and don't have to wait to long!


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

I have read through this thread and have not seen anywhere mentioning that one week is a very short time in which to introduce a cat to another cat (sorry if I have missed it).

It can take weeks/months to slowly introduce a new cat in to a household where another cat is residing. Especially as Bengals are generally such dominant cats so one week is nothing.

I see you have posted in Bengal Cat Forum as well recently (this week) and the advice I have received on that forum with my two Bengal kittens has also been fantastic just like the advice given on this forum. It may be worth you popping back to the BCF to update them and see if they can also come up with some suggestions for you and between this forum and that one hopefully you will get some great advice

Loopyloro
x


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

I've just taken a quick picture for when you get back showing a door we have up between 2 rooms, you could do something similar as it will allow the cats to see/smell each other when the time is right (you're a way off that yet though do you have plenty of time to sort something out), but not get to each other. 

It was quite inexpensive, I bought the door on ebay for around £30 (hence why it could do with a paint) and my partner hung it and used magnetic latches to hold it closed, we also have a small hook each side so it can be more firmly shut from both sides an prevent it being pushed open by the cat. I wouldn't recommend a wire mesh door with bengals as you will likely find them scaling up it or able to eventually tear through it so you want something more sturdy than a fly screen etc but with smallish holes so they can't reach through to each other. I'm not sure it's useful but thought I would share in case this is something you could arrange - the layout of your house permitting of course.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

LOOPYLORO said:


> I have read through this thread and have not seen anywhere mentioning that one week is a very short time in which to introduce a cat to another cat (sorry if I have missed it).
> 
> It can take weeks/months to slowly introduce a new cat in to a household where another cat is residing. Especially as Bengals are generally such dominant cats so one week is nothing.
> 
> ...


Hi - at hospital so reply will be short. I didn't post on BCf because of slow response times. It's better for everyone involved that I get the best and quickest response I can. It's Christmas almost so I don't expect the smaller forums to have much traffic hence coming to a lager one with more international members. I'll be sure to respond to everyone when I get home. Thanks again for all the advice.


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

TigerLileh said:


> Hi - at hospital so reply will be short. I didn't post on BCf because of slow response times. It's better for everyone involved that I get the best and quickest response I can. It's Christmas almost so I don't expect the smaller forums to have much traffic hence coming to a lager one with more international members. I'll be sure to respond to everyone when I get home. Thanks again for all the advice.


Hahaha made me laugh!!! Lager one 

Loopyloro
x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

TigerLileh said:


> Taylor I was actually going to message you and ask for help but didn't want to pester you. I asked for a bengal kitten, a little boy as a mate for Lily but my partner wanted an older female. I was OK with it because I'm stupid enough and didn't research this one bloody aspect and now I seem to be living in a cat warzone. I did read younger males don't tend to attack older femaleS (pecking order) so it's much easier to introduce them which was my reasoning for a little kitten and a boy. My illness means I don't handle stress well so I needed it to be a little smoother than this really. I know this isn't fair on anyone involved anymore and I am to blame for my lack of insight and lack of research.
> 
> She was raised by a well known breeder. I can send you his name as you've probably heard of him - her pedigree is actually very good and so is her history etc. She and had her only set of kittens with a very well known stud a few years back. She was sold uneutered and the previous owners were not breeders (they bought from the breeder)
> 
> ...


Well Im not sure why your partner wanted a older female  along with another older female, but it is possibly the worst decision you could have made, a 3 year old breeding female, and Im sorry I don't care how she was bred, she was sold on NOT NEUTERED to any old body and had a litter of kittens 3 years ago?? Calling ALL that time, and not neutered? WHY?! Im shocked she hasn't had pyo, and bengals are not the best cats not to have not neutered, mine crapped and sprayed the house when in call, so you are going to be in for some fun when she starts up again 

So the past owners bought her from someone else that bought her just to breed but she was probably so 'crazy' that they sold her on? She gets passed from pillow to post, may have lived outside, you just do not know, she needs to be neutered tomorrow! It will take a good 8 weeks for hormones to settle, and in the mean time you need to build a bond with her, don't stroke her or put your hand over her head, just feed her little treats and try and build a bond without forcing it, sit in the room with her reading, let her hear your voice, gently play with toys, keep the feliway on.

It wont be easy and its going to take a lot of effort and time, and that isn't with her seeing the other cat, it has to be done slowly, she isn't a kitten, she has had 3 years of life, she has been mated, had kittens, passed about :frown2:

For all she know this is a pit stop until she is sold on again, so why should she be nice? and please don't feed them felix or whiskers, yes bengals are well known to have tummy upsets and a lot of them do end up with TF, and you just cant feed them crap, they need a good diet, cooked chicken bits they normally love and can help you bond with her.

If you are stressed now its only been 1 week! You have a lot of work ahead of you, then introduce them slowly in about 3months once you have bonded with her, you have to take it slow, they may never even be in the same room as each other, or you maybe lucky once the hormones where you and you have all bonded, no one can say but you need to work at it, and book her in for neutering like now!

Also I would post on the bengalcatforums as alot of people there have older bengals and can help a lot more with ideas etc


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Firstly hope you got on OK at the hospital.

Yes, she needs spaying ASAP, and a general vet check. However it will take weeks for her to settle in with you, that is if she ever does.

If you don't have a top-loading wire carrier I'd strongly recommend getting one before you take her to the vets. They are much easier to use with stressed cats than the normal front-loading plastic ones - you can scruff the cat and gently lower it in. They are also escape-proof and last for ages.

Personally I'd also contact her original breeder if at all possible, and I'd get in touch with the rescue sections of the Bengal Cat clubs:

The Bengal Cat Club 2011 Website: Home of the Bengals in the UK and Worldwide:http://www.bengalcatclub.co.uk/
Bengal Cat Club GB

Hopefully they will be as sensible and helpful as the OCWT are.

If you decide to consult a behaviourist be aware that you need to choose one specialising in cats - some seem to be generalists and many mostly deal with dogs.


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

Taylorbaby said:


> Well Im not sure why your partner wanted a older female  along with another older female, but it is possibly the worst decision you could have made, a 3 year old breeding female, and Im sorry I don't care how she was bred, she was sold on NOT NEUTERED to any old body and had a litter of kittens 3 years ago?? Calling ALL that time, and not neutered? WHY?! Im shocked she hasn't had pyo, and bengals are not the best cats not to have not neutered, mine crapped and sprayed the house when in call, so you are going to be in for some fun when she starts up again
> 
> So the past owners bought her from someone else that bought her just to breed but she was probably so 'crazy' that they sold her on? She gets passed from pillow to post, may have lived outside, you just do not know, she needs to be neutered tomorrow! It will take a good 8 weeks for hormones to settle, and in the mean time you need to build a bond with her, don't stroke her or put your hand over her head, just feed her little treats and try and build a bond without forcing it, sit in the room with her reading, let her hear your voice, gently play with toys, keep the feliway on.
> 
> ...


Taylorbaby - If you see my post above, I also said to update her previous post in Bengal Cat Forum earlier this week as people on there may be able to offer more advice. She says that she hasn't posted on there this time because of slow response times but in my opinion, people are pretty quick to offer help (both on this forum and BCF).

Tigerlileh - It may help if you put "URGENT ADVICE NEEDED" in the title or something similar and post on Bengal Cat Forum later. I am sure people will respond pretty quickly. They were absolutely brilliant with advice for me and guessed correctly that my two kittens had TF.

Loopyloro
x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

LOOPYLORO said:


> Taylorbaby - If you see my post above, I also said to update her previous post in Bengal Cat Forum earlier this week as people on there may be able to offer more advice. She says that she hasn't posted on there this time because of slow response times but in my opinion, people are pretty quick to offer help (both on this forum and BCF).
> 
> Tigerlileh - It may help if you put "URGENT ADVICE NEEDED" in the title or something similar and post on Bengal Cat Forum later. I am sure people will respond pretty quickly. They were absolutely brilliant with advice for me and guessed correctly that my two kittens had TF.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree I think they are pretty good, got to remember that we all have lifes, work, hobbies etc away from forums so most people cant reply in seconds, as much as we want them to lol :laugh:

How are your babies now by the way??


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

Taylorbaby said:


> Yeah I agree I think they are pretty good, got to remember that we all have lifes, work, hobbies etc away from forums so most people cant reply in seconds, as much as we want them to lol :laugh:
> 
> How are your babies now by the way??


They are absolutely fine now thank you!!! Up to mischief and full of life!! Their new "trick" is to leg it up and down the stairs after one another and they sound like a herd of elephants!!

Loopyloro
x


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> Well Im not sure why your partner wanted a older female  along with another older female, but it is possibly the worst decision you could have made, a 3 year old breeding female, and Im sorry I don't care how she was bred, she was sold on NOT NEUTERED to any old body and had a litter of kittens 3 years ago?? Calling ALL that time, and not neutered? WHY?! Im shocked she hasn't had pyo, and bengals are not the best cats not to have not neutered, mine crapped and sprayed the house when in call, so you are going to be in for some fun when she starts up again
> 
> So the past owners bought her from someone else that bought her just to breed but she was probably so 'crazy' that they sold her on? She gets passed from pillow to post, may have lived outside, you just do not know, she needs to be neutered tomorrow! It will take a good 8 weeks for hormones to settle, and in the mean time you need to build a bond with her, don't stroke her or put your hand over her head, just feed her little treats and try and build a bond without forcing it, sit in the room with her reading, let her hear your voice, gently play with toys, keep the feliway on.
> 
> ...


I can't agree with this enough.

OP, one thing though I would still give it at least a week of ignoring her and not any real interaction other than just existing around her just to try and break this habit of her attacking you. If it's quite bad and it has ever happened when you haven't even been touching her etc then certainly a week, maybe longer. Then follow advice of Taylorbaby and start slow with small bit of tempting food, play time etc.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

LOOPYLORO said:


> Taylorbaby - If you see my post above, I also said to update her previous post in Bengal Cat Forum earlier this week as people on there may be able to offer more advice. She says that she hasn't posted on there this time because of slow response times but in my opinion, people are pretty quick to offer help (both on this forum and BCF).
> 
> Tigerlileh - It may help if you put "URGENT ADVICE NEEDED" in the title or something similar and post on Bengal Cat Forum later. I am sure people will respond pretty quickly. They were absolutely brilliant with advice for me and guessed correctly that my two kittens had TF.
> 
> ...


It's christmas and it's less likely many people are going to be on. That paired with it being a smaller forum that has had bouts of inactivity make it unlikely I'll get a response as quickly as I did on here. I'm on a few international bengal forums that are frequently busy and such so I guess I will post on there. As for people working - fully understand that which doesn't really take away from it being inactive it's just a reason why.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> I can't agree with this enough.
> 
> OP, one thing though I would still give it at least a week of ignoring her and not any real interaction other than just existing around her just to try and break this habit of her attacking you. If it's quite bad and it has ever happened when you haven't even been touching her etc then certainly a week, maybe longer. Then follow advice of Taylorbaby and start slow with small bit of tempting food, play time etc.


Sorry yes brill Idea, cant believe I forgot!!


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Taylorbaby said:


> Well Im not sure why your partner wanted a older female  along with another older female, but it is possibly the worst decision you could have made, a 3 year old breeding female, and Im sorry I don't care how she was bred, she was sold on NOT NEUTERED to any old body and had a litter of kittens 3 years ago?? Calling ALL that time, and not neutered? WHY?! Im shocked she hasn't had pyo, and bengals are not the best cats not to have not neutered, mine crapped and sprayed the house when in call, so you are going to be in for some fun when she starts up again
> 
> So the past owners bought her from someone else that bought her just to breed but she was probably so 'crazy' that they sold her on? She gets passed from pillow to post, may have lived outside, you just do not know, she needs to be neutered tomorrow! It will take a good 8 weeks for hormones to settle, and in the mean time you need to build a bond with her, don't stroke her or put your hand over her head, just feed her little treats and try and build a bond without forcing it, sit in the room with her reading, let her hear your voice, gently play with toys, keep the feliway on.
> 
> ...


I've spoken to people who had very little issue with integration previously. It's unlikely to go smoothly but does happen. She's three years old had her last kittens in 2011. She's .not had any issues outside her little box or anything and repeating the neutering things is pointless. I understand why you're saying it but it was not me who allowed her 3 years of hormonal fluctuations and such.

First owner bred her from his other queen and then sold her on to a man who wanted her for his grandmother. She did not get on with dogs so he sold her again. This is her third home and I fully trust she was an indoor cat but I'm not sure of the rest of the story. She wasn't crazy just timid apparently but she's not timid at all in my home. She's quite confident and domineering actually so I guess that wasn't the whole of it.

I said at the start of all this I understood her position and didn't blame it. I know why she could be lashing out my need for advice is to help her and myself. As for food. lily refuses to eat if we stop her Felix. After Christmas I was going to lower the amount we feed her grandly and mix it with other food. Each cat is different and if she won't eat the expensive food what else can I do. I have tried with her. The newer cat will be going on a raw diet sooner rather than later as it apparently helps.

I'm stressed because she is aggressive toward me and has no reason to be. I have not hurt her in any way. I don't want this thread to turn into a sarcastic slinging match for Christ sake. That's not going to help anyone so please just give me advice if you can (and I'll be grateful for) or avoid commenting. I know what I did wrong and how we lmessed up. Lesson learned mistake made.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Firstly hope you got on OK at the hospital.
> 
> Yes, she needs spaying ASAP, and a general vet check. However it will take weeks for her to settle in with you, that is if she ever does.
> 
> ...


She's hAd a check, vaccination update and such. Hospital is all done with now. I have the original breeders contact details so main an option.

Understood about length of time my issues are mainly her agitation that is directed toward me. It just doesn't seem normal for a cat to be perfectly okay with one person and attack another.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I know you are finding this stressful, but no need to have a bit of a go at TB.

This might be stating the obvious but although you believe she doesn't have a reason to be aggressive to you, she does. Working out what it is is the key to (possibly) sorting it out.

It could simple but my guess is it's a mixture of things - they might include hormones, stress, possible bad experience with someone you remind her of, and I'm sure other PFers can think of plenty of other reasons.

Ring your vet and see how soon they can spay her. If you are lucky it will be before Xmas, and while she is there get a through check - they can check her teeth while she is under for her spay if she is unco-operative, and take blood if they deam blood tests worth doing. That will get two really important things out of the way. If you want to use a behaviourist you will need a referal from your vet, and they will want to have seen her to do that. I think that part of the reason for a referal is so the behaviourist knows the cat is in good health.

Any idea why the original breeder sold her to a 'man for his grandmother'? There might be a clue there. Any chance of getting in touch with her original breeder?

It's vital to remember that fear can lead to apparent confidence and aggression.

Aggression in Cats | ASPCA
Types of Aggression in Cats - Cat Behavior Associates


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

TigerLileh said:


> She's hAd a check, vaccination update and such. Hospital is all done with now. I have the original breeders contact details so main an option.
> 
> Understood about length of time my issues are mainly her agitation that is directed toward me. It just doesn't seem normal for a cat to be perfectly okay with one person and attack another.


My post of a minute or two ago crossed with yours. She needs spaying, ASAP. She's not done with 'hospital' until she is spayed.

And, do you like everyone you know equally? Thought not. Cats are rather like us in many ways, and that's one of them.


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> My post of a minute or two ago crossed with yours. She needs spaying, ASAP. She's not done with 'hospital' until she is spayed.
> 
> And, do you like everyone you know equally? Thought not. Cats are rather like us in many ways, and that's one of them.


Correct me if I am wrong but I think Tigerlileh was at the hospital for herself not her cat (she got a bite from her and was having it checked out)

Agree that she needs spaying ASAP though

Loopyloro
x


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## Cazzer (Feb 1, 2010)

I used to have a ragdoll who was a gorgeous soppy hunk of a boy. He adored me and just adored attention and fusses. He hated my other cats though. On occasion he would get so angry he would attack me. He bit me on the chest, scratched my face and legs. Several times he nearly had my eyes. I'd often be left bleeding. Then he would be the loving ragdoll again. He used to terrify me when he was angry. I did nothing to him but he could smell the other cats on me. He was angry because he was frightened of the other cats. As simple as that. I had to rehome him as an only cat. He is now a much loved pampered pet. He was only really like this with me BTW no where near as bad with my OH.


You don't have to have done anything to this Bengal to provoke such a reaction. She can smell lily on you and that is enough. If her past owner was male that's probably why she likes your boyfriend.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

TigerLileh said:


> It just doesn't seem normal for a cat to be perfectly okay with one person and attack another.


Actually, it is perfectly 'normal' for cats to be fine with one person and have an intense dislike or irrational fear of someone else. Same as us humans really, no rhyme nor reason for it sometimes. It's just because.

Sounds like your O/H is said cat's chosen human.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

TigerLileh said:


> I've spoken to people who had very little issue with integration previously. It's unlikely to go smoothly but does happen. She's three years old had her last kittens in 2011. She's .not had any issues outside her little box or anything and repeating the neutering things is pointless. I understand why you're saying it but it was not me who allowed her 3 years of hormonal fluctuations and such.
> 
> First owner bred her from his other queen and then sold her on to a man who wanted her for his grandmother. She did not get on with dogs so he sold her again. This is her third home and I fully trust she was an indoor cat but I'm not sure of the rest of the story. She wasn't crazy just timid apparently but she's not timid at all in my home. She's quite confident and domineering actually so I guess that wasn't the whole of it.
> 
> ...


Don't worry I don't think anybody was deliberately having a go at you. I think you have done well to take on this girl and to try and fix her issues rather than just give up as most would, even if she never fits in with your household, if you spay her and start to understand her, even if she is rehomed if she cannot get on with your cat at least you will have done the absolute right thing for her. Remember in text things can come across as harsh that aren't meant that way!

I do think these issues are worth trying to fix and you sound dedicated enough to give it a go but as previously said, it is going to be a long and difficult road.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> I know you are finding this stressful, but no need to have a bit of a go at TB.
> 
> This might be stating the obvious but although you believe she doesn't have a reason to be aggressive to you, she does. Working out what it is is the key to (possibly) sorting it out.
> 
> ...


My post was more general at anyone posting sarcasm, passive aggressive or unhelpful comments. I came here for advice, not to be made to feel like I'm the worst person in the world over a mistake I've made. I lacked foresight I did not intentionally put myself or the cat in this situation. I did not bring this cat into my home and know this would be the outcome. I was given different advice from multiple sources. Some said she'd be fine, some said it'd take a week to integrate and even my vet said it'd be fine and they'd ignore each other. I thought it would be easier than this and that was MY FAULT. I was obviously misled about her history, not my fault.

She's had all her blood tests and such, she's been vaccinated and we've done all we can for her. Her teeth have been checked, her claws checked and she did not attack the vet at all. In fact when he put a thermometer up her butt she didn't even flinch.

I just got home and she was wrapping herself around my legs and meowing at me, it's like an entirely different cat.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

LOOPYLORO said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but I think Tigerlileh was at the hospital for herself not her cat (she got a bite from her and was having it checked out)
> 
> Agree that she needs spaying ASAP though
> 
> ...


It was the 'shes had' that made me think Tigerlileh was talking about the cat rather than herself, but you might be right. I'm also sure you mean the cat should be spayed, not Tigerlileh!


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

LOOPYLORO said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but I think Tigerlileh was at the hospital for herself not her cat (she got a bite from her and was having it checked out)
> 
> Agree that she needs spaying ASAP though
> 
> ...


Yeah I did. They gave me tetanus and antibiotics for a week. I have also called the Vet in case the cat needed any kind of care and they said no.



Cazzer said:


> I used to have a ragdoll who was a gorgeous soppy hunk of a boy. He adored me and just adored attention and fusses. He hated my other cats though. On occasion he would get so angry he would attack me. He bit me on the chest, scratched my face and legs. Several times he nearly had my eyes. I'd often be left bleeding. Then he would be the loving ragdoll again. He used to terrify me when he was angry. I did nothing to him but he could smell the other cats on me. He was angry because he was frightened of the other cats. As simple as that. I had to rehome him as an only cat. He is now a much loved pampered pet. He was only really like this with me BTW no where near as bad with my OH.
> 
> You don't have to have done anything to this Bengal to provoke such a reaction. She can smell lily on you and that is enough. If her past owner was male that's probably why she likes your boyfriend.


These are the kind of responses I was hoping for. Some kind of explanation or idea of what is wrong. Her previous owner was male, then an old lady who had her for 6 months. I'm fine with her not being particularly close to me it's the aggression that is worrying.

If she needs to be an only cat we will spay her and let her go to someone who is well respected. It's best for everyone.



dougal22 said:


> Actually, it is perfectly 'normal' for cats to be fine with one person and have an intense dislike or irrational fear of someone else. Same as us humans really, no rhyme nor reason for it sometimes. It's just because.
> 
> Sounds like your O/H is said cat's chosen human.


Thank you for this information. My old ginger tom was happy hugging everyone and he never had any favourites.Bengals are a different breed altogether though.

If she can love him more but at least tolerate me that would be great. Do cats get jealous of humans? I know they can of other cats.



thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> Don't worry I don't think anybody was deliberately having a go at you. I think you have done well to take on this girl and to try and fix her issues rather than just give up as most would, even if she never fits in with your household, if you spay her and start to understand her, even if she is rehomed if she cannot get on with your cat at least you will have done the absolute right thing for her. Remember in text things can come across as harsh that aren't meant that way!
> 
> I do think these issues are worth trying to fix and you sound dedicated enough to give it a go but as previously said, it is going to be a long and difficult road.


I'm really hoping not. I've read a lot of threads where people come for advice and have been told it's their fault etc. I just don't think it's helpful. 
I'm going to ignore her altogether as was previously mentioned and go from there. She's sat outside the door crying for attention and I feel awful just ignoring her but I know that affection isn't long lived and soon it's back to claws.

I'm prepared to do what's right and what I can and if in the end she just isn't compatible then that is fair enough. She will be rehomed and everyone will be able to go on without worry or fear (mainly her, which is good.)


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Maybe when you calm down and re-read my posts they were meant to be helpful and offer advice, no having a go went through my mind what so ever, everyone else pretty much said the same things, cant really add much more than what I have put, good luck remember to take it slow and obviously get her neutered which will help loads


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

TigerLileh said:


> Yeah I did. They gave me tetanus and antibiotics for a week. I have also called the Vet in case the cat needed any kind of care and they said no.
> 
> These are the kind of responses I was hoping for. Some kind of explanation or idea of what is wrong. Her previous owner was male, then an old lady who had her for 6 months. I'm fine with her not being particularly close to me it's the aggression that is worrying.
> 
> ...


The main part of ignoring her is being around her to do it. She needs to see you differently. This won't just involve not touching her but will also involve no eye contact and ignorance even if she starts trying to look to cause trouble! My wild cat will often approach strangers and hiss, he is testing the water to see if he gets a reaction, he can also make an awful spitting sound but because of what he is, in person it can be as loud as sounding like a gun being fired which has the desired effect on most people! The best with this is total ignorance but refusing to jump/ give up your seat etc. They soon learn that you are not a threat and not worth trying to intimidate either. Once you get on those neutral terms you can begin to form a relationship even if it is just based on mutual tolerance!

I don't often say this but if you need extra help you can PM me and I'll try and talk you through anything I can help with. If you do choose to rehome after you have worked with her then there are a couple of good rescuers on here who may be able to arrange a home for her that they will home check etc and then she could go straight from yours to a new, only cat, household. Don't give up get though, the fact this cat has a relationship/bond to one person in the household means that you aren't attempting the impossible, there is still a good chance she will come round eventually it's just a case of being prepared for the worst and knowing your and the cats limits.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

TigerLileh said:


> <snip>
> 
> If she needs to be an only cat we will spay her and let her go to someone who is well respected. It's best for everyone.
> 
> <snip>


She needs spaying come what may, as soon as your vet can manage it. The above leaves me feeling you don't intend spaying her if she stays with you, and for the life of me I can't think why you would want to keep her entire.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I think someone said this earlier and I am just catching up, but I would like to praise you - a lot of people would not be as keen as you are to try and help this cat. Thank god she ended up with you as her future could have been terrible if she had landed in someone else's hands with no understanding or wanting to help her.
Loads of good advice already given and I don't have much to add, other than time and patience in the bucket load will be required, however I do believe you are more than enough up for the task 
Not sure why diet matters at this point in time, as she has only been with you a week let her eat what she bloody well likes! Giving her food she enjoys may help with her attitude towards you in the long term. Make sure you feed her too and not OH  Worry about getting her onto a decent diet later.
Best of luck and I hope you are OK after your little A&E visit too - I look forward to hearing how you guys get along


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> The main part of ignoring her is being around her to do it. She needs to see you differently. This won't just involve not touching her but will also involve no eye contact and ignorance even if she starts trying to look to cause trouble! My wild cat will often approach strangers and hiss, he is testing the water to see if he gets a reaction, he can also make an awful spitting sound but because of what he is, in person it can be as loud as sounding like a gun being fired which has the desired effect on most people! The best with this is total ignorance but refusing to jump/ give up your seat etc. They soon learn that you are not a threat and not worth trying to intimidate either. Once you get on those neutral terms you can begin to form a relationship even if it is just based on mutual tolerance!
> 
> I don't often say this but if you need extra help you can PM me and I'll try and talk you through anything I can help with. If you do choose to rehome after you have worked with her then there are a couple of good rescuers on here who may be able to arrange a home for her that they will home check etc and then she could go straight from yours to a new, only cat, household. Don't give up get though, the fact this cat has a relationship/bond to one person in the household means that you aren't attempting the impossible, there is still a good chance she will come round eventually it's just a case of being prepared for the worst and knowing your and the cats limits.


If that's what you think will help then I'm definitely going to try. I sat down earlier and she went to sleep on my legs. I didn't know if I should move or not. I did not acknowledge her or call her over, she just did it. She was there about 10 minutes before getting up and leaving.

Thank you so much for the offer. I will definitely take you up on it should things deteriorate or I need advice with anything else. The two bengals are seemingly more curious of each other and are sniffing under the door. Should I prevent this? They were in different conjoining rooms but if it's best to move O then I will do so.

I don't intend to throw in the towel just yet I won't unless it begins to negatively affect her. Obviously there's a few changes that need to be made but then I can really try with her properly. People show me patience all the time and although I'm a very impatient person I think it's about time to repay that kindness with this kitty.

Was it you who mentioned the crate/open bar thing? 
Someone did and I just want to confirm this is a good idea? I think when introducing them it was mentioned? Not sure. I don't like the idea of boxing an animal though, it seems like she wouldn't be able to move?

Also working on the door idea with my partner now he is home. Going to discuss all options and such. She has been fine with him as usual.



moggie14 said:


> I think someone said this earlier and I am just catching up, but I would like to praise you - a lot of people would not be as keen as you are to try and help this cat. Thank god she ended up with you as her future could have been terrible if she had landed in someone else's hands with no understanding or wanting to help her.
> Loads of good advice already given and I don't have much to add, other than time and patience in the bucket load will be required, however I do believe you are more than enough up for the task
> Not sure why diet matters at this point in time, as she has only been with you a week let her eat what she bloody well likes! Giving her food she enjoys may help with her attitude towards you in the long term. Make sure you feed her too and not OH  Worry about getting her onto a decent diet later.
> Best of luck and I hope you are OK after your little A&E visit too - I look forward to hearing how you guys get along


Hi - thank you. I won't begin to pretend it hasn't been easy to think of throwing the towel in, mainly because I'm very anxious and inpatient but that won't do either her nor I any good. Plus my partner adores her. I'm quite young with a lot to learn and I think this responsibility and journey weather it ends good or bad with her will teach me a lot.

Her diet (and Lily's) is something I was actually on edge about due to the sugars in the food we give them. Lily is a little harder to please but the new cat seems to like raw chicken and such so I think the transition will be an easy one (luckily)

I feed both of them as o/h is at work from 6 - 6 every day. She sure does love her food haha.

I'll update everyone in a few months time on how things go for sure. I'm hoping well as my partner obviously adores her and she's shown she's very loving towards him with a real desire to be around people.

I'm considering contacting her original owner and seeing if this is a new part of her personality. Apparently she was around many cats previously both young and old and had no issues so I'm thinking it may be after the dogs she's wary and scared. Or maybe it's just Lily who she isn't fond of.

Thanks again for all the advice and such. I will be putting it to good use.


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## wicklow86 (Jan 23, 2013)

Let me start by saying I have no experience of bengals but I have been attacked by a cat. We were catsitting and had not been told the cat was unspayed (she was a indoor cat so no kittens thankfuly), whilst there she came into heat and became besotted with my husband. I presume she saw me as a rival/threat and as a result went for my legs at every oppurtunity.

Neutering could well help. Its very admirable of you being so dedicated to helping the cat, I hope things work out well.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

It was me who said not to box her, in a carrier any cat feels insecure as they are unable to move away. A bengal being highly strung is more likely to suffer from this trapped feeling. I'd say avoid that, she needs to know she can get herself away from a situation rather than being stuck in it. 

You mentioned your girl like day old chicks I believe? If so you could feed these, mice, hamsters, quail, rabbit, etc and it would be complete (if you fed a variety not if you just fed DOC). You could try this with your new cat, it's costly but in my experience actually calms them down no end, I think poor diet in bengals leads to the sugars that cheap food has added being processed and making them edgy and the grain and wheat in cheap food leads to intestinal upset and even if they have no outward symptoms makes them grouchy all round. If you can start on the whole prey and move to something a little cheaper such as natural instinct as well then I think you would see a vast improvement. I'm only going on my experience there but I do think diet can play a role in attitude.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> It was me who said not to box her, in a carrier any cat feels insecure as they are unable to move away. A bengal being highly strung is more likely to suffer from this trapped feeling. I'd say avoid that, she needs to know she can get herself away from a situation rather than being stuck in it.
> 
> You mentioned your girl like day old chicks I believe? If so you could feed these, mice, hamsters, quail, rabbit, etc and it would be complete (if you fed a variety not if you just fed DOC). You could try this with your new cat, it's costly but in my experience actually calms them down no end, I think poor diet in bengals leads to the sugars that cheap food has added being processed and making them edgy and the grain and wheat in cheap food leads to intestinal upset and even if they have no outward symptoms makes them grouchy all round. If you can start on the whole prey and move to something a little cheaper such as natural instinct as well then I think you would see a vast improvement. I'm only going on my experience there but I do think diet can play a role in attitude.


alright noted. Will not do. 
We have chicks and mice in the freezer. Will get some out and purchase some other stuff. We also eat a lot of chicken and such so there is always raw chicken around.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

TigerLileh said:


> Thank you for this information. My old ginger tom was happy hugging everyone and he never had any favourites.Bengals are a different breed altogether though.
> 
> If she can love him more but at least tolerate me that would be great. *Do cats get jealous of humans? I know they can of other cats. *


I don't have Bengals, I have Siamese and Orientals which are pretty high maintenance cats as cats go and whilst some would disagree with me, I do believe that cats can be 'jealous' of other humans (and cats), but not jealousy on a human level as cats aren't capable of feeling human emotion, but certainly 'jealousy' as a cat knows how.

However, having said that, the cat in your home hasn't got off to a great start, so labelling her as a jealous cat would be unfair. She has raging hormones, has been passed around a bit, living in an unstable environment with other cats and dogs. Hopefully once she's spayed, she will settle down but don't expect an overnight miracle. Give her a chance; time will tell if she's going to settle into your household. Love and patience and giving her the space she needs will go a long way.

Good luck


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

We rescued a Ragdoll last october from a couple who lived in a farm....house cat who was alone pretty much all day, the only human contact/play was a little in the evening and a piece of screwed up paper chucked across the room. Husband really did not like the cat and in some way, shape or form abused him.....we dont know how.

When we went too get him he was a properly floppy ragdoll, it was the most surreal thing to come across. So we brought him home....wow.

He was very aggresive, mainly towards our middle aged male cat Jenson and being Jenson is a very mild mannerd and gentle cat, he took the bullying time after time, backing down all the time....we thought about rehoming and then after advice we waited again....things were up and down for ages, we have an older male who, sometimes he would violently attack....they do still now....but its maybe once a month it happens, if that.

When we picked up him he would sink his claws into our arms, didnt like fuss, could only play for about a minute before being badly out of breath.

That was oct 2012....now dec 2013 and he's become noticeable more Ragdoll in the last 6-8weeks.....he's been flopping on me for about 2-3months now, but still wont do it with my mum or dad, only in the last month has he allowed face too face contact and he now does it willingly without treats involved. He purrs alot more then he used too and will snuggle up on the sofa beside one of us and sleep without jumping or using teeth and claws if you touch him.

Its been a long time, but we've gotten there, nothing as bad as your bengal I know....but its still a positive, our Ragdoll....JJ in my sig went from an only cat/lonely cat household too coming into a house with 3 other cats and shortly after joined by a stray kitten who i think has helped him alot!


Take each day as it comes, take all the advice given, patience and all that jazz. Im sure in time she will atleast tolerate you....and thats the minimum that will be the outcome.....worst case is rehoming to an experienced owner where she can be the only cat. But percivere and you never know what will happen


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

TigerLileh said:


> My post was more general at anyone posting sarcasm, passive aggressive or unhelpful comments. I came here for advice, not to be made to feel like I'm the worst person in the world over a mistake I've made. I lacked foresight I did not intentionally put myself or the cat in this situation. I did not bring this cat into my home and know this would be the outcome. I was given different advice from multiple sources. Some said she'd be fine, some said it'd take a week to integrate and even my vet said it'd be fine and they'd ignore each other. I thought it would be easier than this and that was MY FAULT. I was obviously misled about her history, not my fault.
> 
> She's had all her blood tests and such, she's been vaccinated and we've done all we can for her. Her teeth have been checked, her claws checked and she did not attack the vet at all. In fact when he put a thermometer up her butt she didn't even flinch.
> 
> I just got home and she was wrapping herself around my legs and meowing at me, it's like an entirely different cat.


No-one has tried to make you feel like a bad person at all, and everyone has tried to be as helpful as possible. But in order to be able to help you do what is best for your cat, it is necessary to get some facts straight. To you, that may be confrontational, but it most certainly isn't meant as an attack. In order to be able to advise you, it is necessary to assess the cat's background, the present situation, and the manner - and effects - of your interactions with the cat. You say she is far more aggressive to you than to your partner, so you will have to adapt your attitude towards her to prevent any actions she may perceive as a provocation. So we will have to look at your actions from her point of view, and try to assess why she is reacting in that manner.

The cats have been in the same house for as little as one week, and you expect them to get on, or at least leave each other alone. Even though this is not unheard of, it is not something you can count on. And your new cat is a very highly strung breed, _and_ unneutered _and_ has not been pregnant, or even mated, for quite a while. And she is being asked to share the house with another female of roughly the same age. It is a worst case scenario, really. She is governed by her hormones, as well as previous experience. If she was as highly strung with the previous owners, she may have been treated with fear, repulsion, even aggression, which would only have made her trust humans less.
It is best to err on the side of safety, so you will have to approach her with utmost care in order to prevent any further attacks.

Whatever you do, do not initiate any interaction with her, do not look her in the eye, try not to look directly in her direction at all. Try to ignore her and let her go about her business unnoticed. It is the best way to make her feel safe and not have a go at you.
I suspect that the very fact that you are trying to make friends with her is provoking the attacks. She does not accept any interaction unless it is on her terms, which means that any form of contact should be initiated by her. Once you have won her trust, you may be able to coax her into contact, but it will still be up to her whether to respond to your coaxing. You need to give her every reason to believe you respect her private space and let her call the shots as far as any form of interaction is concerned. For your own safety and her peace of mind, it would be best to treat her as if she was a feral.

I am nearly 58 years old, have had cats all my life, and used to work as a volunteer at a rescue, socializing ferals. One of my own present cats and 2 previous ones are ferals.

I would never just try to stroke or cuddle a cat, especially if that cat is showing signs of stress, fear or aggression. My tactics for socializing ferals is quietly sitting in a corner of the room, reading poetry or children's stories aloud in a soft, gentle voice, and not acknowledging the cats at all. I let them observe me, approach me, ask for my attention. Only then would I acknowledge them and give them the attention they sought, and _only_ the type and measure of attention they sought.
This attitude still defines my relationship with my feral girl Tosca. If I force my attention on her, she will swat at me. She has learned not to use her nails, unless I disregard her warnings, but her trust in me comes from my respecting the boundaries _she_ sets. I can cuddle her, but only at her bidding and only in the way she wants. When I want to cuddle her, I will have to coax her into inviting me to do so.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Just to update everyone on this issue - it's been four months and things have completely changed between myself and Orchid.

She often comes to me for cuddles and falls asleep on my legs. She will run to me when I come home and is generally quite affectionate. She does not scratch or bite anymore (she has put her teeth on my skin but I think it was playing) and she follows me around when she can. She hates

We've had some incidents of her attacking Lily and there seems to be no progress between the two, which is sad. It's been four months and I was hoping they would be pals by now. I don't think much is going to change in that regard because she seems to just hate Lily. I've followed everyone's advice in terms of slowly reintroducing them and nothing is working. It's time for us to look at other options, possibly a behaviour expert visit to try and find the cause of all the hate and if nothing else works I am going to have to do what is best for everyone involved.

When they have clashed I am always the one to remove Orchid from the environment and I think there is some frustration there from her to me. She runs if she sees me leave/enter the room it has routinely happened in but does not run from anyone else. She comes straight back wanting attention but the initial running away is a bit hurtful (I know she doesn't understand it's for her own good).

She had an accident recently where her paw was cut pretty deep. When trying to get the bandage back on her leg she did growl and become aggressive but I think she was just lashing out because of pain so I don't count it as a step back.

So yeah, everything is going well. Thank you to everyone who gave advice. I appreciate it. I'm going to continue working on the orchid/lily issue and I'm hoping we can find some kind of a resolution that involves keeping her.

Here we are cuddling:


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I've just been reading this thread through from the beginning. I know how traumatic it all was at the beginning and I'm so glad that things have changed for the better over the last few months, at least from your point of view. Its a shame she hasn't got on with Lily and I think a behaviourist is obviously your next step. Even four months is early days though with a cat like Orchid so you have made great strides in certain areas. Well done for persevering.


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## Tenar (Mar 29, 2014)

I'm glad things are going better, and I hope they continue to improve. It's obviously been a hell of an ordeal for all of you, and you've been working really hard on the problem.

Did you get her spayed? I got the feeling from this thread that you really felt uncomfortable with doing that. Could you talk more about that, hon?


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Charity said:


> I've just been reading this thread through from the beginning. I know how traumatic it all was at the beginning and I'm so glad that things have changed for the better over the last few months, at least from your point of view. Its a shame she hasn't got on with Lily and I think a behaviourist is obviously your next step. Even four months is early days though with a cat like Orchid so you have made great strides in certain areas. Well done for persevering.


Thank you. It was hell, I don't think I've ever felt that bad about a situation involving an animal. I think I felt partly to blame to begin with because we obviously did not get off to a good start. I couldn't have done anything differently looking back and I'm extremely proud of her and how much she has began to trust me.



Tenar said:


> I'm glad things are going better, and I hope they continue to improve. It's obviously been a hell of an ordeal for all of you, and you've been working really hard on the problem.
> 
> Did you get her spayed? I got the feeling from this thread that you really felt uncomfortable with doing that. Could you talk more about that, hon?


It's been tough (especially the week I had to get that bloody injection) but things have progressed and I'm super happy with the result.

I knew people will have picked up on my ambiguity/hesitation regarding spaying. 
I have no problem getting her spayed but my partner does. He's from a culture/background where taking away and animals ability to have children/reproduce is seen as wrong. I think he feels that every living creature on this planet should have a chance to experience children of their own. I can understand both points of view as does he and we have agreed to have her spayed probably in summer or early august.

We're allowing her to have a litter beforehand and have been receiving advice from a long time bengal breeder regarding this (there will be no backdoor shenanigans.) That gives us the opportunity to keep one of her kittens with her and will give her the opportunity to have kittens one last time. I originally planned to get her spayed in January but as this became a solid decision I obviously could not.

A lot of people were harsh in regards to the spaying issue (and I expect some less than happy comments after this post) and I can honestly see both sides of it. I could not make the decision to spay her on what everybody else thought was best and right though (as much as I want and will spay her, it wasn't just my decision). Obviously my partner and I have these cats together and his opinion and input is something that needed to be considered, we're a team and must work as such in all aspects of our lives especially with our pets.

Edit: I took this picture today and I think she looks like a little tiger so I'm posting it. She was yawning during!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Tigerlileh, thank you for coming back to update us.

I am pleased to hear your relationship with Orchid has greatly improved over the past 4 mths. But very sorry to hear she still does not get along with Lily.

You mention you may be thinking of bringing in a cat behaviourist to "try and find the cause of all the hate". By all means do this, but I can tell you without doubt it is a territorial issue. Bengals are known for being very territorial and as Orchid is unspayed this is adding to her aggression and determination to have the territory (your house) all to herself. Basically she wants poor Lily OUT.

This territorial behaviour is entirely instinctive and there is nothing you can do to change it, though for sure having her spayed might help reduce the severity of the behaviour towards Lily. What I fear is that Orchid will never get on with Lily now. Once a negative relationship is established between 2 cats it is almost impossible to change it I am afraid. Cats are often very unforgiving towards each other.

I was very sad to read that although you have decided to spay Orchid it will not be until the summer (August) and that you are planning for her to have another litter first. As she has already had a 'token' litter in 2011 I don't understand why she is to have another one Meanwhile she has the misery of constantly coming into call and not being mated, (unless she has been given a hormone implant to stop her coming into call?)

I agree your cat's fate is entirely your responsibility and her future lies in your hands. No-on else can make decisions for your cat, but at the same time, as this is a forum, you must see that we are entitled to express an opinion about a situation if we find it upsetting, or feel it is not in the cat's best interest. 
As I am sure you are probably aware many forum members have years and years of experience of caring for cats and a great deal of knowledge of cat welfare.

It is important for you to know that if Orchid becomes pregnant she is likely to become even more aggressively territorial towards Lily, especially once the kittens are born. I have seen this happen many times. For Lily's safety you will need to ensure that you do not allow her any contact at all with Orchid. Divide the house up, if you have not already done so, so each cat has their own "quarters". Fit a temporary full size door to the bottom or top of the stairs so there absolutely can be no accidental contact between the two cats.

I wish you the best and really, really hope there will be a good outcome.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

TigerLileh, we are all talking about Orchid but can I ask how Lily is getting along through all this? Is she still the same cat she was before and is she coping with the hostility?
I know nothing about Bengals so I am not going to comment about their behaviour but, as you were expecting some flak about the spaying issue, here's my penny's worth.  I do have to express concern about Orchid having another litter and not being spayed for several months. Whilst, of course, it is both your decisions, I have to say I'm afraid I don't agree with your OH's views especially as she has already had kittens previously I believe and I think this would be a backward step. Why rock the boat when you have made so much progress? And if you bring a kitten into the mix, how will this affect things? Once the kitten has grown to an adult, whose to say Orchid won't see this as another territorial challenge which would double your problem. I really think you need to take note of what people who have a lot of experience are advising as I would hate to see you come on here at a later date in another crisis and perhaps feeling you can't keep all the cats.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

What a shame you're going to breed her, has she been health tested? HCM is an issue in Bengals and they require yearly scans from 12 months of age, along with being tested for PK-Def.
You need to know the health of the cats in the pedigree too.


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## Tenar (Mar 29, 2014)

Could I ask what your partner says about Orchid having attacked you, and what he says about how Orchid behaves towards Lily?


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

She looks great and I am pleased that things have improved so much for you guys. I have to admit i am saddened to see that you have decided to breed from her. Her having a 'right' to have children is nothing more than anthropomorphism at its worst. If she has a 'right' to have children, then are you going to keep all of her kittens so that she can raise them to adulthood, make sure they get good jobs and get to know her grandchildren? 

I apologise for the sarcasm, but using the excuse that an animal has a right to experience giving birth or whatever is nothing more than a justification for an owner wanting to experience having a litter of kittens, or to experience selling them. Breeding from her won't preserve any lines, it won't be part of plans to improve the breed, temperament or anything else. I think it's a great shame she can't just be neutered and allowed to be a pet cat.


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## korrok (Sep 4, 2013)

Hey there OP,

Glad to hear that your relationship with Orchid has improved, and sorry to hear the two cats still are not getting along.

I admit I am not an expert on Bengals but from the knowledge I have, I am a little concerned about your plan to breed from Orchid. I would expect that the pregnancy and following litter of kittens, the hormonal changes this entails and the maternal instincts etc, would REALLY, severely heighten the issues between Lily and Orchid. You could be asking for some very fierce fighting and possibly to ruin any chance of the two cats ever living peacefully. Orchid already doesn't like Lily around, and when at her most vulnerable and looking after her offspring, Lily will become a massive threat to her - as well as stressing her out badly. 

I would very much keep these things in mind because it will have a whole lot more knock-on effect than perhaps you are thinking on now to have Orchid become pregnant.

Of course if you do decide to breed in any way shape or form, DO get health tests done, be sure that any stud cat has health tests, do not breed from her if she has any signs of these health conditions regardless of your partner's ideas - it's really not remotely ethical.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

TigerLileh said:


> <snip>
> 
> We're allowing her to have a litter beforehand
> <snip>


Are you mad? Sorry to be so blunt, but one of the criteria for breeding cats is a good temprement and hers is clearly dubious.

Plus all the issues mentioned of upsetting the apple cart plus Bengals are a breed where HCM screening (scanning - no gene test) is highly recommended, and it's not cheap.

Edit: Temprement is at the top of the list (along with good health) for selecting a breeding cat. Your cat has attacked you in the past, she is bullying your other cat, her temprement is not suitable for breeding from. Please, you have a good chance of producing similarly badly behaved kittens who might be put into rescues or worse because of it.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

TigerLileh said:


> I knew people will have picked up on my ambiguity/hesitation regarding spaying.
> I have no problem getting her spayed but my partner does. He's from a culture/background where taking away and animals ability to have children/reproduce is seen as wrong. I think he feels that every living creature on this planet should have a chance to experience children of their own. I can understand both points of view as does he and we have agreed to have her spayed probably in summer or early august.
> 
> We're allowing her to have a litter beforehand and have been receiving advice from a long time bengal breeder regarding this (there will be no backdoor shenanigans.) That gives us the opportunity to keep one of her kittens with her and will give her the opportunity to have kittens one last time. I originally planned to get her spayed in January but as this became a solid decision I obviously could not.
> ...


How are you going to cope with a hormone filled bengal that will protect her kittens at ANY cost? 

Has she been HCM scanned? (Around £300-1100) by a certified scanner? PK-DEF tested? FIV FELV tested? Has she got full registration papers on active? Are you going to neuter the kittens before they leave you? IS she a good example of the breed? What are her faults? What are you looking for a in a stud?

Breeding will make her worse!!! 

Bengals are OVER POPULATED, there are too many people breeding them!!! You may not be able to sell any of the kittens!! My friend gave away, *FOR FREE* 5 snow rosetted Bengal kittens, hcm scanned, vac, reg, neutered!!!! No one wanted them! Breeders have kittens at 9 months old, unable to sell, breeders have given up (bloody good breeders that help form the breed!!!)

Can you cope with mum cat and a possible 5 kittens that you cant sell plus your other cat that no one gets on with each other??? How will you keep them all separate???? 

Im sorry but I don't care about your husbands beliefs, nor your husband! I care about that bengal cat, He is totally wrong. Does he want to be a frightend cat living with someone he hates then mated and give birth to kittens? Bengals sometimes DO NOT make good mums, she may need a C-section, Yes I think she has alot to look forward to!  What type of temperament is she going to pass down?? I believe in doing what is right by the animal, and breeding them is NOT the correct thing to do in your situation  You must be able to see that? If you neutered your cats then their hormones would calm down and they may even bond!! 

edit: she Had a litter 3 years ago!! No wonder she is so filled with hormones, she doesn't need another litter to 'experience' it she has had one!!!! What other reason is there to breed her now??


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I am very sorry to hear you are not having her spayed. The culture thing is BS, as far as I am concerned and I have little time for such nonsense when it comes to making cats' lives better. I recently reported a muslim family to the spca and the department of health as they were letting their cats breed freely, apparently "due to religious reasons". They also only feed the cats porridge and the cats are infested with ringworm. I don't give a damn, as far as I am concerned it is just "for lazy, stingy and irresponsible" reasons. Total nonsense, playing the culture/religious card to the detriment of the animals. Really makes me SO angry


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

chillminx said:


> Tigerlileh, thank you for coming back to update us.
> 
> I am pleased to hear your relationship with Orchid has greatly improved over the past 4 mths. But very sorry to hear she still does not get along with Lily.
> 
> ...


My fear is honestly that it will never change. My boyfriend is very fond of Orchid and no expense will be spared in trying to rectify the issue before giving up.

The house is already largely divided (an upstairs downstairs situation) and the cats no longer really see each other. I think the last time was when Lily decided she would run like Usain Bolt past my legs out the door. There have been times (sparse but lovely) where they have both gotten along and I will be hopeful that Orchid has finally realised Lily is a cute little playmate.. Then they fight. I think you're right about the territorial issue. My vet told me to "let them fight" I was HORRIFIED at that and refused. Apparently letting them fight will assert dominance... But WTF? Who allows such a thing?

unless she has been given a hormone implant to stop her coming into call?


I'm sorry my reply is so short. I'm trying to address everyone and everything in a limited time period. 


Charity said:


> TigerLileh, we are all talking about Orchid but can I ask how Lily is getting along through all this? Is she still the same cat she was before and is she coping with the hostility?
> I know nothing about Bengals so I am not going to comment about their behaviour but, as you were expecting some flak about the spaying issue, here's my penny's worth.  I do have to express concern about Orchid having another litter and not being spayed for several months. Whilst, of course, it is both your decisions, I have to say I'm afraid I don't agree with your OH's views especially as she has already had kittens previously I believe and I think this would be a backward step. Why rock the boat when you have made so much progress? And if you bring a kitten into the mix, how will this affect things? Once the kitten has grown to an adult, whose to say Orchid won't see this as another territorial challenge which would double your problem. I really think you need to take note of what people who have a lot of experience are advising as I would hate to see you come on here at a later date in another crisis and perhaps feeling you can't keep all the cats.


Lily is wonderful. Both cats are, in spite of the situation. Their only problem (basically, Orchids) is with each other. Lily turned one recently and the only change I see in her is her colour. Her personality remains loving and crazy at the same time which honestly I'm thankful for. This entire ordeal has changed my views on a LOT of things. I used to be animal crazy and wanted a farm (not literally) now I know you can not bring an animal in to a home without proper preparation and all current animals must be considered. I was raised around a lot of different animals, mainly pedigree and mainly show dogs and a few cats. I've never seen problems like this before so my naive, uneducated mind instantly figured it would all be OK. Wrong.

It used to really upset her which is around the time I made this thread. I was very emotional and just wanted it over with if I'm honest. There's nothing worse than seeing your furbaby attacked and hiding away. When Lily does see Orchid now she will potter over and sniff her. She's licked her a few times too. Those are the times I think things will be okay. There was one time, a few months ago where Orchid went to sleep with Lily and even played with her. I'm not sure what happened after but we followed all advice and it reverted back to aggression soon after.

Here she is recently:











spotty cats said:


> What a shame you're going to breed her, has she been health tested? HCM is an issue in Bengals and they require yearly scans from 12 months of age, along with being tested for PK-Def.
> You need to know the health of the cats in the pedigree too.


I had her tested for everything and contacted her original breeder. I've had no word from him but the people I've spoken to regarding her pedigree have all stated it's a strong one. She has no health issues that are permanent (she cut her paw recently).



Tenar said:


> Could I ask what your partner says about Orchid having attacked you, and what he says about how Orchid behaves towards Lily?


He originally told me I wasn't allowing her to settle properly before expecting magical results. That's somewhat true, I am an impatient person. I can't really recall what he said about Lily but he was never as horrified as I was (again, I'm highly sensitive/emotional/a tad dramatic) but he wasn't happy with what was going out. The first time it happened I cried. I was so upset at the way Lily cowered and refused to come out and play.

He's admitted it isn't fair on either cat but also knows he does not want to give up on her. (He never really gives up on anything, it's admirable really.) Hence the no expense spared exploration of treatments before realising it's not going to change.



Aurelie said:


> She looks great and I am pleased that things have improved so much for you guys. I have to admit i am saddened to see that you have decided to breed from her. Her having a 'right' to have children is nothing more than anthropomorphism at its worst. If she has a 'right' to have children, then are you going to keep all of her kittens so that she can raise them to adulthood, make sure they get good jobs and get to know her grandchildren?
> 
> I apologise for the sarcasm, but using the excuse that an animal has a right to experience giving birth or whatever is nothing more than a justification for an owner wanting to experience having a litter of kittens, or to experience selling them. Breeding from her won't preserve any lines, it won't be part of plans to improve the breed, temperament or anything else. I think it's a great shame she can't just be neutered and allowed to be a pet cat.


LOL! You're funny. I'm not sure if that was your intention. I would gladly keep every single one of her kittens. I'm not sure my house would withstand the claws though.

We don't need money, nor would we ever put an animal through the pain of birthing for the sake of a few pounds. I am listening to everyone's advice though and value it considering you're all so knowledgeable.

I kind of had to rush my responses. It's exam season and I have a ton of work to do but I did read and take in all that was said. I'm willing to discuss any concerns regarding decisions privately via PM as I feel I would be more comfortable doing so that way.

EDIT: We got all health tests done a while ago. They will be repeated. Yes they were costly, but money is not an issue in regards to our animals.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

I just want to add that if people approach me with non angry advice I will be willing to listen. My PMS are open for such concern and if you think my decision will be a detriment I would really like to hear from you in a calm, considerate way as reading fiery responses just sets off my anxiety and does not help either case.

Please know that what is best for this cat is what is best for my household and in turn myself and my other animals. I understand people have their own views and beliefs but throwing them at me in an angry way isn't really helping.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

TigerLileh said:


> LOL! You're funny. I'm not sure if that was your intention.


It was, but the point I was trying to make is that forcing human reasoning or beliefs onto an animal is pointless and more often than not is simply a justification to hide behind.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide, but I can't help but feel disappointed for this poor cat, who as TB has pointed out has already experienced having a litter.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Bengals do not like other cats, especially when they get older, mating her WILL MAKE HER WORSE, it will make your other cats life worse, why would you do this to them? You will make her worse! IF you neuter her now her hormones will settle and she may have a chance of chillin out and getting along with your other girl, why wouldn't you want that?

Just out of interest which HCM scanner did you use? What does it say on her certificate? That you need to produce to kitten owners?

No one is being nasty, everyone is passionate and probably in total disbelief of you wanting to mate this poor cat when it is totally obvious, even probably to non cat owners what needs to be done


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

TigerLileh said:


> We're allowing her to have a litter beforehand and have been receiving advice from a long time bengal breeder regarding this (there will be no backdoor shenanigans.) That gives us the opportunity to keep one of her kittens with her


I'm not going to comment on any other aspect as it's really none of my business but the one thing you mentioned, above, I think you might want want to give a bit more consideration to. I'm sure there are breeders here who own certain breeds who have a mother and adult offspring that have a very close bond; perhaps Siamese/Foreign type breeds . But in my experience (with British Shorthairs), females often won't live in harmony with one of their offspring - in fact quite the opposite and on more than one occasion I've had to admit defeat when I'd wanted to keep mother and daughter together with visions of 'happy families'.

Bear in mind that experience is with a fairly laid back, middle of the road type breed for temperament. I know very little about Bengals but one thing that's clear is that they can be highly territorial and I strongly suspect they are a breed more than any other where it may well be difficult to keep mother and offspring living in harmony.

I'm not saying it isn't do'able, who knows? But in giving it a try I think you may well be opening yourself up, having kept a kitten in the hope of it working, to a very difficult decision in the future.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

TigerLileh said:


> I just want to add that if people approach me with non angry advice I will be willing to listen. My PMS are open for such concern and if you think my decision will be a detriment I would really like to hear from you in a calm, considerate way as reading fiery responses just sets off my anxiety and does not help either case.
> 
> Please know that what is best for this cat is what is best for my household and in turn myself and my other animals. I understand people have their own views and beliefs but throwing them at me in an angry way isn't really helping.


I think what people are trying to say is that her having another litter not only stands a good chance of making her aggressive behaviour worse in the long term, and almost definitely whilst the kittens are still with her, but also comes with a mass of problems, both guaranteed and potential, that will not do her or you any good, especially if you suffer from anxiety. Perhaps having the first litter is one of the things that helped turn her aggressive in the first place, and all the dedicated pedigree breeders here will tell you how stressful the mating, pregnancy and birthing process is, especially when things go wrong. They would certainly not consider your cat suitable for breeding.

Then there is also the problem of what to do with the kittens - Bengals are already over populated, and as you are very aware they are high maintenance cats, so you may very well struggle to find good owners for them. What will you do if you can't find suitable homes for them, or if someone want to return a kitten because it has inherited her aggression? How will that affect your anxiety, particularly if she takes a dislike to the kits once they are fully grown - can you cope with full scale feline war in your house, or permanently dividing the house up into areas for each cat?

I appreciate that cultural issues are important to people, but it is exceedingly unwise to put these ahead of the health - both physical and mental - of your cat. Therefore, I would urge you to listen to the advice everyone here has been giving you, and take the decision to spay as soon as the vet can book her in - it really is the best thing for her and her health, and therefore the best thing for your household. You have a great number of very, very knowledgable people here all saying the same thing here, what more evidence do you need to persuade you?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Your right, bengals when they weren't neutered (even some when they were) (do not like other cats, be it their own offspring or a random friend, especially when they get older, hence the adverts for retired breeders being rehomed saying 'NO OTHER PETS!!!' 

My ragdolls also do not want their kittens here after they are meant to leave, only really when they are neutered and we re-homed 1 with her daughter & 1 with her son, they did they keep a bond, obviously they still get annoyed at some points (which Im sure even human mums do haha :laugh: ) but once their job is done, its done! 

It Would probably be the worse thing to breed her keeping her not neutered not getting along with the current cat, then mate and keep one of her kittens! The poor other cat and her! 

One they get their sites on something they wont back down, even as kittens, they can be big bullies, they need to be raised properly, I don't see this happening in this home with mum & other cat acting how they are


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm really talking to Tigerlileh and everyone who has commented here. Can I just make a few points from what everyone is saying. Whilst the message coming across is that Bengals are territorial and won't tolerate other cats, Lily is also a Bengal and, although still young, doesn't seem to be like this. She was slightly aggressive to start as are many cats but isn't any longer. If, as Tigerlileh says, they have had some moments where they have been OK to the point of sitting together or Lily being allowed to lick Orchid, then surely all is not lost. I had a cat some years ago who was introduced to our other two and whilst tolerating one, had an absolute hatred for the other and there was never one single moment when she wasn't seriously hostile and making his whole life a misery, not to mention ours. It was her total fixation day and night to hunt him and fight with him. The situation with Orchid and Lily isn't this bad from what's been said. I think if it had just been your choice, Tigerlileh, you would probably have had her spayed when you first got her. Whilst I know a lot of men have issues with neutering in both cats and dogs, a Victorian attitude in these times when we know so much more, I find it very difficult to understand, if you know anything at all about cats, why, as its been discussed, OH cannot see the obvious benefits of having her spayed both in terms of hopefully helping her behaviour and for her overall health. If, by now, this had been done, Orchid could be different, even if the problem could not be completely resolved. Its a well known fact now that its better for a cat's health to be neutered or spayed as, amongst other things, it prevents serious illnesses. Ignorant people see cats having kittens as 'aaah, isn't that sweet' when, in fact, for the cat, the whole process can be stressful, sometimes painful and difficult and not necessarily with a happy outcome. I can only hope that TigerLileh, you and your OH will discuss this further and reconsider your current decision.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

My experience is that it is easier to keep two totally unrelated neutered toms and get them to live in harmony, or even become friends, than a mother and kitten, especially a female kitten.

Many mother cats tends to regard her female kittens as competition as soon as they reach sexual maturity, and try to drive them away. The only female cats I ever encountered that really formed a close bond were sisters. They even used to care for each other's litters.

Some breeds are more likely to accept other female cats, but as far as I know, Bengals are not known for social family life, they are fiercer and more territorial than average.

Which is exactly what you have been experiencing with Orchid and Lily.
The best way to try and settle the situation is to have Orchid spayed as soon as possible, so she will no longer have her hormones making her more territorial than necessary.

I fully understand you would like to breed her and have more cats that are so much like the girl you love so dearly, but if you also want to keep Lily, and /or one of the kittens, it's about the worst decision you could possibly make.

I am talking solely about the cats' best interests, and I know it may hurt like hell to even have to consider the option. But for the benefit of the animals that we have taken on as our responsibility, we sometimes need to make decisions WE do not like at all.

But the cats' needs should always, and I mean _*always*_, take precedence over our own. I have once had to consider putting a cat to sleep because she was very unhappy in a situation that seemed to have no solution. My Tosca had a wound that would not heal and had to be kept indoors. She was feral by birth and could not adapt to an indoor life. She pined away and became deeply depressed. I love that cat to bits, and the mere thought of taking her life was utterly unberarable. But forcing her to continue a life that was hell to her was worse - _*for her*_.

Fortunately, the issue was resolved by a skin transplant, and she once more became the happy, independent cat I used to know. But if giving her up had indeed been the only thing I could have done to save her from an unhappy life, I would have done it, even though it didn't bear thinking about.

The cat's best interests always come first, as their health and happiness is our responsibility, and ours alone.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

TigerLileh said:


> My fear is honestly that it will never change. My boyfriend is very fond of Orchid and no expense will be spared in trying to rectify the issue before giving up.


Sorry but I'm really confused 

How is any behaviourist (or whatever treatment etc you decide to try) supposed to fix something that is - quite simply - natural behaviour for that particular breed 

It's in their genetic make up .... you can't change that



TigerLileh said:


> My vet told me to "let them fight" I was HORRIFIED at that and refused. Apparently letting them fight will assert dominance... But WTF? Who allows such a thing?


Generally new (to each other) cats will need the odd squabble or two to sort out who's boss and - as long as they're not doing damage - it an often be best to leave them to sort it out & once the hierarchy is established, things will potter along quite well

However, for cats who obviously won't tolerate each other & will do damage with repeated battles - nope, it's not a good idea

I'm afraid when it gets to this stage then total separation is really the only option to keep everyone safe

It may be possible to do reintroductions after many months but I'm afraid in my experience it will eventually kick off again and TBH it's not fun and really stressful as you're basically always waiting for it to happen

Total separation sounds awful BUT (again from my own experience) both cats can be very happy - and much happier as they're more relaxed etc - than having to worry about when it's all going to start again - if they're going to get to eat their dinner / use their litter tray / have a cuddle without the other jumping in and trying to hurt them

I also agree with the comments others have made about breeding and this also confuses me totally .....

Why would you want to breed from any animal that doesn't have an absolutely 100% disposition 

Not to mention the health risks of having her not spayed .....


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

De-clawing a cat so that it won

Summary: "Hence we say that if there is some benefit in neutering the cat and if that will not cause its death, then it is permissible."

Neutering your cat will help her behaviour - it wont' cure it. It will almost completely protect her from pyometra (infection in the uterus, often fatal). It will give her a small degree of protection against breast cancer, but because she has been entire for some time she is at greater risk than a cat that was spayed before her first call.


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## korrok (Sep 4, 2013)

Charity said:


> I'm really talking to Tigerlileh and everyone who has commented here. Can I just make a few points from what everyone is saying. Whilst the message coming across is that Bengals are territorial and won't tolerate other cats, Lily is also a Bengal and, although still young, doesn't seem to be like this. She was slightly aggressive to start as are many cats but isn't any longer. If, as Tigerlileh says, they have had some moments where they have been OK to the point of sitting together or Lily being allowed to lick Orchid, then surely all is not lost. I had a cat some years ago who was introduced to our other two and whilst tolerating one, had an absolute hatred for the other and there was never one single moment when she wasn't seriously hostile and making his whole life a misery, not to mention ours. It was her total fixation day and night to hunt him and fight with him. The situation with Orchid and Lily isn't this bad from what's been said. I think if it had just been your choice, Tigerlileh, you would probably have had her spayed when you first got her. Whilst I know a lot of men have issues with neutering in both cats and dogs, a Victorian attitude in these times when we know so much more, I find it very difficult to understand, if you know anything at all about cats, why, as its been discussed, OH cannot see the obvious benefits of having her spayed both in terms of hopefully helping her behaviour and for her overall health. If, by now, this had been done, Orchid could be different, even if the problem could not be completely resolved. Its a well known fact now that its better for a cat's health to be neutered or spayed as, amongst other things, it prevents serious illnesses. Ignorant people see cats having kittens as 'aaah, isn't that sweet' when, in fact, for the cat, the whole process can be stressful, sometimes painful and difficult and not necessarily with a happy outcome. I can only hope that TigerLileh, you and your OH will discuss this further and reconsider your current decision.


This reflects my own concerns. The two currently seem like they could get along with some time, understanding and perhaps behaviourist help. I do not understand why OP would want to bring pregnancy and litters into this to jeopardise the situation and make it more volatile.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Taylorbaby said:


> Maybe when you calm down and re-read my posts they were meant to be helpful and offer advice, no having a go went through my mind what so ever, everyone else pretty much said the same things, cant really add much more than what I have put, good luck remember to take it slow and obviously get her neutered which will help loads


Actually, the post made by the OP whereby she explains she responds better to constructive and considered responses, otherwise it gives her anxiety which she cant learn from (just the sort of thing we say about animals really); when I read that post I thought to myself what a well worded, fair, and measured response. She came across quite calm considering the way some posts were directed at her.
Whereas, when I read your posts, to me they came over as a little bit hostile, and i felt that you needed to be calmer.

The content of your posts was fantastic, some great advice, yet some of your attendant comments strayed from those fine qualities and, considering your advice _was_ so great, you didnt really need to add them

Just my objective observation 

You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, as they say


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

TigerLileh said:


> I just want to add that if people approach me with non angry advice I will be willing to listen. My PMS are open for such concern and if you think my decision will be a detriment I would really like to hear from you in a calm, considerate way as reading fiery responses just sets off my anxiety and does not help either case.
> 
> Please know that what is best for this cat is what is best for my household and in turn myself and my other animals. I understand people have their own views and beliefs but throwing them at me in an angry way isn't really helping.


TaylorBaby is experienced with Bengals, perhaps more than anyone else who's replied. You might want to PM her and discuss things that way. She's a pretty nice person 

I do have mothers and daughters who are very closely bonded, to the point they are distressed when separated for matings, but it can go either way.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> TaylorBaby is experienced with Bengals, perhaps more than anyone else who's replied. You might want to PM her and discuss things that way. She's a pretty nice person
> 
> I do have mothers and daughters who are very closely bonded, to the point they are distressed when separated for matings, but it can go either way.


You are absolutely right, mother-daughter bondings can and do happen, even amongst Bengals.
But your situation is somewhat different, you are breeding cats with the ultimately desirable personality, no aggression or territorial issues or other less-than-perfect characteristics, and in a harmonious environment with no underlying feline stress. If you have a cat with issues, you do not breed from it, even if it is a 'physically perfect specimen from a perfect line'.

Orchid does have an issue that makes her less than perfect to breed from, an issue that is likely to upset the apple cart again, and more severely than before.

Personally, I would not take the risk, ever...
I would try to take out the sting by spaying her.
Not only because of the interaction issues between the cats, but also to being down the health risks to Orchid, herself, to a minimum.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Tails and Trails said:


> Actually, the post made by the OP whereby she explains she responds better to constructive and considered responses, otherwise it gives her anxiety which she cant learn from (just the sort of thing we say about animals really); when I read that post I thought to myself what a well worded, fair, and measured response. She came across quite calm considering the way some posts were directed at her.
> Whereas, when I read your posts, to me they came over as a little bit hostile, and i felt that you needed to be calmer.
> 
> The content of your posts was fantastic, some great advice, yet some of your attendant comments strayed from those fine qualities and, considering your advice _was_ so great, you didnt really need to add them
> ...


Thanks Im glad you thought my advice was helpful, as it everyone else's, Im not sure why my posts have been singled out, but I don't mind 

When you see this going on everyday in a breed that you Love, and that it is ruining your loved breed, it is hard to stay 'honey and pink and fluffy' with people that obviously will do what they want to the detriment of the animal anyway.

This is the reason I gave up breeding bengals, this the reason some of the best breeders that pioneered the breed within the UK have given up breeding, this is the reason people are having bengals put to sleep for being vicious as they aren't bred and raised correctly, Bengal rescues are full, no other rescues (unless policys have now changed) will accept a Bengal due to how they act.

When raised correctly they are loving human adoring lap babies that just want to be with you and love you, you don't breed from highly strung bengals that attack you 'viciously' (quoted from the title of this post) and a highly stressed one that lives with another Bengal that it hates, you neuter both cats and try to work on a harmonious household, why on earth add a litter of potential 8 kittens to the mix?!

I am not hostile, I am just so sick and tired of seeing the same rubbish every day that I have to post with some sort of passion hoping to get through to someone, how else can I word this? 'Please do not breed your cat, it is the wrong thing to do' Will that be listened to? Nope, maybe if I add stats or health or be passionate, anything else, will it be listened to? Hopefully?, people will do what they want (although I have to say a person on here & me did get a lady not to breed her ragdoll, good work!  )

Even if mum cat bonded with the kept kitten, what about the other cat? What thought has gone into her? IF the OP gets anxiety on forums how is she going to deal with raising these type of kittens (that are 24-7 work!) and grilling new owners face to face with questions to make sure they are going to be good slaves? Why add this type of stress to your live for no reason? None of it makes sense to me at all, not when neutering would help the poor cat in question, she has already had a litter 3 years ago, which means she has 3 years of pent up calling hormones (im surprised she hasn't got pyo or other problems) in her, neutering in the best course of action to take, then working on relationship between the current cat at home.

Cant add much more, so I hope this is a better post!  :devil:


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> Thanks Im glad you thought my advice was helpful, as it everyone else's, Im not sure why my posts have been singled out, but I don't mind
> 
> When you see this going on everyday in a breed that you Love, and that it is ruining your loved breed, it is hard to stay 'honey and pink and fluffy' with people that obviously will do what they want to the detriment of the animal anyway.
> 
> ...


The voice of sanity........

Amen to all of this.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> Thanks Im glad you thought my advice was helpful, as it everyone else's, Im not sure why my posts have been singled out, but I don't mind
> 
> When you see this going on everyday in a breed that you Love, and that it is ruining your loved breed, it is hard to stay 'honey and pink and fluffy' with people that obviously will do what they want to the detriment of the animal anyway.
> 
> ...


Bears repeating and repeating and repeating. I was so happy when I started reading the update in this thread, until I came t the part about Orchid still not having been spayed and then the plan to breed her. It made me so upset and appalled I had to walk away from the thread, but could not stop fretting about it.



OrientalSlave said:


> De-clawing a cat so that it won
> 
> Summary: "Hence we say that if there is some benefit in neutering the cat and if that will not cause its death, then it is permissible."
> 
> Neutering your cat will help her behaviour - it wont' cure it. It will almost completely protect her from pyometra (infection in the uterus, often fatal). It will give her a small degree of protection against breast cancer, but because she has been entire for some time she is at greater risk than a cat that was spayed before her first call.


Islamic culture thinks it's okay to declaw as long as no pain is caused? This is the most backward thing I have ever read. Declawing causes excruciating pain, and many cats continue to suffer pain all their lives, not just in their amputated toes, but their backs and legs. There is no "pain free" method of decalwing.

Off topic, but I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that.

***

I am praying Orchid's humans get her spayed, and soon. I feel so bad for that cat having to suffer through cycle after cycle, and then to have to go through being bred, and labor again, _after all she's already been through._ (not to mention her temperament) It's just wrong.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Tails and Trails said:


> > You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, as they say
> 
> 
> I completely agree with you, and have always, always, ALWAYS found this to be the case! Which is why I started things off by adopting a non-judgmental, hopefully supportive approach in my reply, in the hopes of engaging the OP in a fruitful dialogue. I had hoped other members would follow suit, and keep their replies low key, whilst still stating the plain facts.
> ...


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Not letting off steam about a _topic_. Orchid is not a topic.

She is a living feeling being with very specific needs.

Not spaying her, and considering breeding her, is glaring contradictory to what Orchid needs. It is Orchid I am concerned with, in this thread, not the topic of spaying and breeding in general.

There is a mass of well stated, non judgmental information shared by knowledgeable experienced people in this thread about why Orchid should be spayed and not used for breeding purposes. But it does not appear to have been heard. Perhaps it's time for gut reactions rather than hearts and flowers.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

lorilu said:


> There is a mass of well stated, non judgmental information shared by knowledgeable experienced people in this thread about why Orchid should be spayed and not used for breeding purposes. But it does not appear to have been heard. Perhaps it's time for gut reactions rather than hearts and flowers.


Lorilu, as I am sure you have noticed in the past, I am often in agreement with your views and have on many occasions expressed my respect for your sound common sense, feet-on-the ground approach. So it pains me to have to disagree with you on this thread. 

It is not a matter of "well-stated, non-judgmental information" being " shared by knowledgeable people", it is a question of the tone in which the information is put across. If what is being posted comes across to the OP as harsh, judgmental, unsupportive or discourteous, then surely you can see it is not an effective way of disseminating information?!. And if the OP feels that is how the information is being presented to her, then her reaction should be respected and taken on board.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lorilu said:


> <snip>
> 
> Islamic culture thinks it's okay to declaw as long as no pain is caused? This is the most backward thing I have ever read. Declawing causes excruciating pain, and many cats continue to suffer pain all their lives, not just in their amputated toes, but their backs and legs. There is no "pain free" method of decalwing.
> 
> <snip>


Therefore since declawing does cause pain for no gain to the cat, it can't be an acceptable think for observent Muslims to do. Whoever wrote the Islamic reply didn't know that declawing is painful and can lead to lots of ongoing problems.

I quoted it as it was coming down as pro-neutering.

PS whoever wrote it was an expert on Islamic law, not on cats.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

chillminx said:


> Tails and Trails said:
> 
> 
> > I completely agree with you, and have always, always, ALWAYS found this to be the case! Which is why I started things off by adopting a non-judgmental, hopefully supportive approach in my reply, in the hopes of engaging the OP in a fruitful dialogue. I had hoped other members would follow suit, and keep their replies low key, whilst still stating the plain facts.
> ...


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

lorilu said:


> Not letting off steam about a _topic_. Orchid is not a topic.
> 
> She is a living feeling being with very specific needs.
> *
> ...


*So if the advice already hasnt potentially been heard due the owner having had her anxiety condition triggered due to harsh comments, so you think the answer is MORE of the same???? Sorry, isnt that one of those circular arguments?
*


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

This seems to be going round in the usual circles and I'm not sure that anything further can be added.


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