# Pinking up?



## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

Hi all!
Can someone tell me if that's pinking up? My cat was mating 3 weeks ago and I'm wondering if she's successful. Thank you all for your response


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Looks like to me.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

gskinner123 said:


> Looks like to me.


She wasn't successful at the first time but her nipples has changed a bit but not all only few that's why I'm confused


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

My girl started pinking at 14 and even by day 21 they weren't all pink. Took until around day 27/28 for them all to be pink


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Not sure. Being warm can produce pink nipples. Mine have all be an obvious neon pink by day 21.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

Does it looks like pinking up for you? If she's successful she's today day 18-21


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

She doesn't look as pink as I'd expect at 18-21.

This was my girl at day 21


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

Thank you for your pictures I'll wait and see what happens but she's definitely a strange cat if she's not successful at the second try


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Ann1986 said:


> she's definitely a strange cat if she's not successful at the second try


I wouldn't say so. Not all cats take the 1st, 2nd, 3rd try. 
Could be an underlying issue, just bad luck. Many variables.

What breed is she?


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

She's 16months old ragdoll she's been in season since she was 7 months old (may this year) finally in September we decided to arrange mating for her she wasn't successful at the first time and at the end of November she went is season again so I have brought her back to the same male I have bring her back on the 2nd of December and looking for signs of her being pregnant she has also vomited for last couple of days and I have noticed her nipples looks a bit different but this is my first cat and I don't really know how the pinking up should looks like


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Do you not have a mentor helping you?


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

spotty cats said:


> Do you not have a mentor helping you?


I'm in touch with the male owner as she's breeding her ragdolls but I understand everyone is busy before the Christmas so I dont want to bombard her with my questions that's why since I have noticed her nipples decided to ask in here


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

And I was reading soo soo much about the cat being pregnant but I believe the experienced person can say much much more about the signs than the website


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Good the stud owner is helping. Usually the girls breeder mentors, or friends met through showing.

As you've said this is your first cat, there's a lot to take in with breeding.
Hopefully she's DNA health tested and registered active?


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

spotty cats said:


> Good the stud owner is helping. Usually the girls breeder mentors, or friends met through showing.
> 
> As you've said this is your first cat, there's a lot to take in with breeding.
> Hopefully she's DNA health tested and registered active?


As I said this is my first cat she's DNA checked and warmed always on time


spotty cats said:


> Good the stud owner is helping. Usually the girls breeder mentors, or friends met through showing.
> 
> As you've said this is your first cat, there's a lot to take in with breeding.
> Hopefully she's DNA health tested and registered active?


She's registered and DNA checked it is only my first cat and not experience at all from my side that's why I'm just looking for some opinions in here thank you all for your help and for your answers it is really helpful for me


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Not really a good idea to jump into breeding with no cat experience. Shame a breeder would place an entire girl in such a situation.
Hopefully all works out for you, will you keep a kitten to show and learn more about the breed with?

You can also spay her now as she's not very far along, show her as a neuter and learn before trying to breed.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

spotty cats said:


> You can also spay her now as she's not very far along, show her as a neuter and learn before trying to breed.


Do you really consider that the right and principled thing to do in this particular situation...a DNA tested cat, taken out to stud by its owner?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Do you really consider that the right and principled thing to do in this particular situation...a DNA tested cat, taken out to stud by its owner?


It is an option. Simply DNA testing is no reason to breed.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

spotty cats said:


> Not really a good idea to jump into breeding with no cat experience. Shame a breeder would place an entire girl in such a situation.
> Hopefully all works out for you, will you keep a kitten to show and learn more about the breed with?
> 
> You can also spay her now as she's not very far along, show her as a neuter and learn before trying to breed.


Yes I'm going to keep one kitten also, everyone starts with no experience so Im sure we'll be fine


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Ann1986 said:


> Yes I'm going to keep one kitten also, everyone starts with no experience so Im sure we'll be fine


Not so. People start with experience by showing and learning from a mentor. It's extremely inadvisable to breed with no experience, you will not know what to do when things go wrong.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

spotty cats said:


> It is an option. Simply DNA testing is no reason to breed.


It isn't an accidental (possible) pregnacy or a high risk one for any known reason. I am all for spaying in early pregnancy for a number of reasons, but not a planned mating between, on the face of it, two pedigree cats that are tested for that which they should be, simply because the queen's owner is inexperienced. I mean, why would you?

I agree that it should be an option if other breed related/testing factors haven't been carried out.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

I have just asked in here about pinking up people started to attack me for no experience.
Guys believe me if there would be any risk at her health I wouldn't try she has regular appointments with vet she's regularly checked I have taken the emergency telephone number from vet also and I understand every pregnancy can go wrong but I'm not like I have no idea and I go for it! I'm ready if something's wrong to bring her to vet and her health is regularly monitored I'm also in touch with the stud owner and trying to learn about the breeding don't attack me just because is my first cat I love her like a baby and I wouldn't arrange mating if that would be risky. She's happy healthy cat so why not to try?


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

No one is attacking you. We get a lot of backyard breeders on here, and new breeders who haven't got a clue, its tiresome. Popular breeds are overloaded with breeders that buy from poor quality breeders who sell active willy nilly, and it's the cats that suffers.

Breeding is not easy, it's hard work and you need support, not from the stud owner but from the breeder of your girl who knows their lines and cats.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Ann1986 said:


> I have just asked in here about pinking up people started to attack me for no experience.
> Guys believe me if there would be any risk at her health I wouldn't try she has regular appointments with vet she's regularly checked I have taken the emergency telephone number from vet also and I understand every pregnancy can go wrong but I'm not like I have no idea and I go for it! I'm ready if something's wrong to bring her to vet and her health is regularly monitored I'm also in touch with the stud owner and trying to learn about the breeding don't attack me just because is my first cat I love her like a baby and I wouldn't arrange mating if that would be risky. She's happy healthy *cat so why not to try*?


The question is actually why try? Because a cat is healthy is not a reason to breed. What is your purpose in breeding this cat? I agree with @Rufus15 & @Spottycats. If you want to become a breeder of ragdoll cats, you are going about it backwards. Spay this cat and start by learning about the breed, visiting shows, finding a mentor, in a few years you might be ready to start your program..


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

Ann1986 said:


> I have just asked in here about pinking up people started to attack me for no experience.
> Guys believe me if there would be any risk at her health I wouldn't try she has regular appointments with vet she's regularly checked I have taken the emergency telephone number from vet also and I understand every pregnancy can go wrong but I'm not like I have no idea and I go for it! I'm ready if something's wrong to bring her to vet and her health is regularly monitored I'm also in touch with the stud owner and trying to learn about the breeding don't attack me just because is my first cat I love her like a baby and I wouldn't arrange mating if that would be risky. She's happy healthy cat so why not to try?


You aren't being attacked - breeding can be heart breaking and it is difficult. 
Many, many, many people breed poorly across all species - those good breeders struggle and see the heartache that could be avoided.

You need the support of an experienced breeder, ideally the person who bred your girl - rather than a stud owner. You shouldn't be scared to ask them questions at any time, or think you're bombarding them with questions. You should feel comfortable enough to be able to phone them in the middle of the night should your girl go into labour.

Complications can happen very quickly during labour and when you're inexperienced, it can be difficult to spot. Especially as she is your first cat, cat's can hide pain extremely well. Even experienced breeders can get caught out, I recently followed one litter where an experienced breeder lost nearly a whole litter to sepsis, since it can take hold so quickly.
It's not unusual for some kittens to be still born, first time mums can be quite nervous and unsure during labour, and then settling down with their kittens - some can be too scared and want absolutely nothing to do with their kittens. Other times mum's milk may not be fully in yet or she may struggle to feed a large litter and you do need the equipment and knowledge to be able to hand raise or top them up if needed.

Experienced breeders who know their lines are invaluable. Again if you're looking at breeding for show - since you haven't showed before? You'll likely be unfamiliar with the standard, has mum been showed to prove her quality? Which is where an experienced show breeder can help guide you to pick out the best keeper from the litter with the most show potential.

Ultimately you're bringing life in to the world that you'll be responsible for - for responsible breeders that's responsibility doesn't end when the animal leaves their home.

It can be difficult to find good homes, you need to vet the owners to ensure they're a caring, loving home for your kitten. It's best to ensure your kittens are neutered before leaving you - so they can't be bred from, not everyone keeps their word and ensuring your kittens don't have a life of bring a cash cow or contributing to the already over population of cats is one thing you can do. Also with microchipping with your details and the new owners in case they ever escape. Fully vaccinating them, worming them, registering them, providing a pedigree. Showing proof both parents have been tested for known genetic illnesses within the breed and sharing your home with them for 4 months as well as being will to take them back if their owners can no longer keep them.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

This is the best motivated site I have ever hear about. Thanks guys for your respond but my question was only with regards to the pinking up.I was asking question completely different from what the topic is now about. If I have feel I need some more to know about breeding I would definitely ask but I don't really need to ask in here as I have said before I'm in touch with people who answered all my questions regarding the breeding and I know what I'm going for so please stop telling me to spay her.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

And now my question to all breeders.
Why did you try? I can see lots of breeders in here so where did they came from and why they breed and why they started? Probably they because they love animals...
cats, dogs or horses and that's what they want to do in their lives, having much to do with animals so why are you asking me why try? Well... That's why


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

There are ways to love animals and have them in your life that don't involve breeding. Just loving animals and wanting them in your life isn't a reason to breed.

Most breeders get into breeding for the love of the breed, to add to and develop the breed, to produce healthy, tested, well socialised kittens that are the best example of the breed the breeder can produce.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

But that's what I always wanted to do because before I didn't have much time and after my dog has passed away and since I feel I have a time for it decided that this is the right time for me and that's something's I want to learn, develop and do in my life, so why not to try why everyone tells me not to do it I don't really get it


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Ann1986 said:


> But that's what I always wanted to do because before I didn't have much time and after my dog has passed away and since I feel I have a time for it decided that this is the right time for me and that's something's I want to learn, develop and do in my life, so why not to try why everyone tells me not to do it I don't really get it


If you don't have much spare time cat breeding isn't for you. I took a week of work each time a girl was due, slept with her the last 2-3 nights she was due (on the floor in the living room), and most of all when one had lactation problems for a few days I had to hand-feed her kittens night & day every 2 hours.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Ann1986 said:


> But that's what I always wanted to do because before I didn't have much time and after my dog has passed away and since I feel I have a time for it decided that this is the right time for me and that's something's I want to learn, develop and do in my life, so why not to try why everyone tells me not to do it I don't really get it


Learn first, then do, is the point. You've bought a female cat and decided to breed her. You haven't done anything else the experienced responsible breeders in this forum are recommending you start with, before breeding. You are breeding your cat because you want to. Not for any other reason. Not for love and betterment of breed, for continuance of superior breed traits. Simply because you want to. I'm not trying to be harsh here, just explaining. This is not a good reason to breed. It's not a good reason to risk your cat, to risk the potential kittens, to bring more lives into a world that already has many, too many, cats.

If you want to breed in an ethical responsible way, you put the time in learning first. Spay your cat, get involved in showing. Learn about the breed, meet the other breeders, learn. Get to know people, then someone who will, eventually, sell you a breeding female and mentor you. Start from the bottom. It's not responsible or ethical to simply buy a cat and breed her on a whim.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

Excuse me guys but you don't read carefully. I have said before that I was learning about it alot and finally I feel ready I don't have experience with pregnant cat as I never had a pregnant cat that doesn't mean I have no idea about breeding and I didn't learn about it. I just mean that I may don't recognize the symptoms of the pregnancy as I never had it,before was looking for some answers regarding this in here but the topic has changed to the wrong way. I'll definitely not gonna ask here anymore that was my first experience in here and for sure the last your right better to ask the people who teach me then ask on forum as I didn't get the answer anyways.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Ann1986 said:


> I didn't get the answer anyways.


To be fair you did get replies to your original question about 'pinking up' , along with advice about ethical and carefully considered breeding.
As a forum we have a responsibility to educate as well as advise which is what the experience breeders here have offered.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

I would understand if someone would offer me support and tell me ask any questions you may have and finger crossed for you. Everybody is learning before they start but to get an experience they finally need to start I feel like everyone just trying to say no and set me up very negatively of breeding in here I know that this is new life bringing to the world and huge responsibility if I wouldn't feel I can hang it I wouldn't go for it I'm not working and have lots of time and I know what's that means to look after mum and kittens and I wouldn't decide about it if there would be even one negative thing in my head about that. Anyways thank you for the conversation I understand this forum is to talk about any concerns someone may have but please don't cross me at the start just because I was not breeding for years before I joined this forum


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I think you're missing the crucial point. We all need to learn somewhere, yes, but a large part of that learning is done long before the actual breeding, not as you have the girl.


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## FletchNo1 (Aug 18, 2019)

Ann1986 said:


> I have just asked in here about pinking up people started to attack me for no experience.
> Guys believe me if there would be any risk at her health I wouldn't try she has regular appointments with vet she's regularly checked I have taken the emergency telephone number from vet also and I understand every pregnancy can go wrong but I'm not like I have no idea and I go for it! I'm ready if something's wrong to bring her to vet and her health is regularly monitored I'm also in touch with the stud owner and trying to learn about the breeding don't attack me just because is my first cat I love her like a baby and I wouldn't arrange mating if that would be risky. She's happy healthy cat so why not to try?


V


Ann1986 said:


> I have just asked in here about pinking up people started to attack me for no experience.
> Guys believe me if there would be any risk at her health I wouldn't try she has regular appointments with vet she's regularly checked I have taken the emergency telephone number from vet also and I understand every pregnancy can go wrong but I'm not like I have no idea and I go for it! I'm ready if something's wrong to bring her to vet and her health is regularly monitored I'm also in touch with the stud owner and trying to learn about the breeding don't attack me just because is my first cat I love her like a baby and I wouldn't arrange mating if that would be risky. She's happy healthy cat so why not to try?


Take advice from your vet on health issues. My vet has helped me raise many cats and dogs successfully over the last two decades. Many breeders of cats and dogs who are registered active don't necessarily have the animals best interests at heart. I've met a few who are only interested in money. I was enquiring about Abyssinian before I got my Siamese. A GCCF breeder offered to sell me an active female no questions asked. He said he would sell any of his kittens active for extra. Numerous GCCF breeders have said similar to me and colleagues. Breeders who are KC registered for dogs and GCCF registered for cats tend to be more responsible but it's not foolproof. Breed types are sometimes more exaggerated and not necessarily more healthy. So showing successfully isn't a good thing always. 
Do the required health checks. Get advice from your vet. Feed good quality food etc. Common sense prevails usually. If you can find a good mentor then brilliant!
Perhaps those on here who genuinely have the species best interests at heart, may do well to reflect on how their well intentioned messages come across? If it's tiresome, maybe they should do something more productive with their time?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

FletchNo1 said:


> Take advice from your vet on health issues.


Many vets know little to nothing about breeding cats, kitten care, cat breeds or breed required health tests. Some are also anti breeder.

Experienced breeders and a vet experienced with breeder clients is a good option if the breeder can find a good vet, experienced breeders know far more in most breeding and kitten raising situations which is why the advice is to go slow, build a network, not jump head first into breeding the cat you've ever owned.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

FletchNo1 said:


> Breed types are sometimes more exaggerated and not necessarily more healthy. So showing successfully isn't a good thing always.


Exaggerated types are not successful show cats.



FletchNo1 said:


> Many breeders of cats and dogs who are registered active don't necessarily have the animals best interests at heart. I've met a few who are only interested in money.


A minority, thankfully, as opposed to the thousands, if not millions, of bybs out to make money off the back of poorly socialised, underage, sickly kittens.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rufus15 said:


> Exaggerated types are not successful show cats.
> <snip>


In many breeds that's true, but have you looked at Persians / Exotics? GCCF had to bring in a rule requiring the top of the nose leather to be level with, or below, the lower rim of the eye. Eyes are horribly bulgy. Some have slits instead of nostrils.

British Shorthair are getting very short in the nose.

Some Siamese & Orientals are being bred with ears that are practically horizontal and have massive lobes so they are becoming rectangular, and cats with ears like that often have deep-set eyes that are too horizontal. (mine are not like that)

Yet these cats are winning.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> In many breeds that's true, but have you looked at Persians / Exotics? GCCF had to bring in a rule requiring the top of the nose leather to be level with, or below, the lower rim of the eye. Eyes are horribly bulgy. Some have slits instead of nostrils.
> 
> British Shorthair are getting very short in the nose.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree. There's one breeder whose Persians and exotics consistently win BIS across all 3 UK registries and her cats are not extreme. Yes there are some more extreme examples but these are now consistently not winning, in any registry.

I can agree to a point that in SIA/ORI there is an issue with deep set eyes. Unfortunately, judges cannot withhold everything deep set as there would be uproar. Other registries do no accept the deep set eyes and they don't win


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Rufus, I agree with your sentiment regarding breeding, etc, on this thread but sadly it is just not true about exaggerated type cats not winning; they do so with some consistency.

I steward fairly frequently at GCCF all breed shows and never fail to see cats in Section 1 that do not meet the SOP re the level of the nose leather; many also have very reduced nostril aperture.

In section 3, the BLH recently introduced the word "relatively" to the SOP where it used to read "short nose" and the BSH BAC is considering following suit. The BSH BAC seminar this year is focusing on 'type creep' as we are seeing more and more over typed BSH, with shorter noses, deeper stops and small nose leathers, partly due to the influence of imported non UK bred cats...you can very often spot one a mile off. There are very few judges who will withhold on these cats and I accept that that is part of the problem.

As Orientalslave has said, the ear set on many Orientals/Siamese has become quite bizarre along with small, deep set eyes. The desire for this look appears to be growing, judging by the cats of these breeds that we have transported into the UK in the course of our business.

I must also mention - though I would guess it doesn't present health problems - Maine Coons...not sure where they are being bred in the main with THE most exaggerated look (Russia, Eastern Europe?) but I see many on social media that look almost unreal. When I first started to see them I thought the photos had been changed/edited in some way to give the cats this extreme and very strange look.

I'm afraid we haven't yet turned the tide in following dog breeders in breeding for extremes. It's getting worse, not better


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Interesting discussion but this has gone way off topic from a newcomer to breeding who was only asking about her girl pinking up.
I am all for the discouragement of bybs but we should still be supportive of those who are trying to do things right. In this age of social media usage I think more and more people look to the internet for advice, even novice breeders who also have excellent mentors.


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

lymorelynn said:


> Interesting discussion but this has gone way off topic from a newcomer to breeding who was only asking about her girl pinking up.
> I am all for the discouragement of bybs but we should still be supportive of those who are trying to do things right. In this age of social media usage I think more and more people look to the internet for advice, even novice breeders who also have excellent mentors.


Hi and thank you so much for understanding me and what the post has been made for


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## Ann1986 (Dec 20, 2019)

lymorelynn said:


> Interesting discussion but this has gone way off topic from a newcomer to breeding who was only asking about her girl pinking up.
> I am all for the discouragement of bybs but we should still be supportive of those who are trying to do things right. In this age of social media usage I think more and more people look to the internet for advice, even novice breeders who also have excellent mentors.


I feel like your the only one in here in this discussion I won't be scared off to ask my questions. Happy Christmas to all and thanks again xx


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