# Puppy Arguing back



## PippinsMummy (Sep 7, 2011)

I just wanted to know if there is any advice on how to handle a answering back puppy.

If my pup is doing something he shouldnt and i tell him NO, he doesnt continue but talks back at me frustratedly. While i realise the fact hes responding to my command is good. He can get quite loud with his arguement and it's not good for him to be yelling and grumbling late at night!

If i continue to talk to him or tell him NO, he gets louder, if i ignore him he'll simply act up.

Just want to point out he is being in no way aggressive with his barking or body language, its more frustrated puppy naughtyness.


----------



## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Instead of telling him 'no' give him something else to do and tell him 'yes'.


----------



## Drewa (Dec 26, 2010)

He's not arguing or answering back - he's a puppy and he thinks you and he are having a conversation, so every time you say something he replies. You say if you ignore him he just "acts up" - what does that mean? Do you mean he "talks" louder/more persistently because if so he's trying even harder to get you to respond. Just refuse to play the game and ignore him longer and eventually he'll get fed up and stop because he's getting nothing from it.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

PippinsMummy said:


> I just wanted to know if there is any advice on how to handle a answering back puppy.
> 
> If my pup is doing something he shouldnt and i tell him NO, he doesnt continue but talks back at me frustratedly. While i realise the fact hes responding to my command is good. He can get quite loud with his arguement and it's not good for him to be yelling and grumbling late at night!
> 
> ...


They do it a lot to attention seek, any interaction you have with him even if its saying no and focusing your gaze on him is rewarding it with what he wants attention of a sort. The more he is rewarded the more he will do it and it becomes a learned behaviour.

Fold your arms turn your back and either stay turned away until he stops or just walk away and leave him to it, but no attention at all, that goes for speaking to him, looking at him or anything else. You might not have left it long enough to get the message across before. if you also let them get right into the barky attention seeking behaviour it also takes longer for them to calm back down again, so stop it as soon as he starts.

If that doesnt work pop him in another room or his crate and leave him for 5 to 10 minutes, no attention at all, let him out and still ignore him for another minute or two then give attention when he is and has still stayed calm.

If he is doing behaviour anytime you want, laying relaxed,eating a chew, playing with his toys, praise him and give him a stroke and some attention. Any time he starts being a pain, you ignore him. He should learn with enough repetitions and consistency, calmer behaviour gets attention and praise, attention seeking by barking and jumping up at you doesnt get anything at all.


----------



## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't think he's making the noises to get her attention, he starts making noises when she tells him off for something he's doing that is 'wrong'. 

What is he doing that is wrong when:



> If my pup is doing something he shouldnt and i tell him NO,


I think if you find a 4 month old puppy doing something wrong, it's better to redirect them to something else, something you would like them to do and praise them for that instead of saying NO tbh.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Elles said:


> I don't think he's making the noises to get her attention, he starts making noises when she tells him off for something he's doing that is 'wrong'.
> 
> What is he doing that is wrong when:
> 
> I think if you find a 4 month old puppy doing something wrong, it's better to redirect them to something else, something you would like them to do and praise them for that instead of saying NO tbh.


You would be surprised what they do to get attention my Malmute as a pup worked out biting the sofas would get attention and grabbing and running off with the remote got attention. When we stopped chasing him when he had the remote, or interacting with him and giving him attention when he bit the sofa it soon stopped. I just used to get up and walk out and ignore him straight away, and you could almost see the look on his fae thinking Huh! then he would lose interest in it pretty quickly.


----------



## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

The examples you give would be like play bowing though? Inviting you to play? 'Hey look, I've got this yummy thing that you like too, let's play! Chase me.' 

So when you ignore him, he realises that you don't want to play, you aren't interested in his shenanigans, so he loses interest and realises it doesn't work. 

I'm guessing a different scenario here. Something like the pup is chewing your best slippers when you walk in the room and see him. You yell 'NO' at him and he immediately drops the slippers and starts whining or barking at you.

Wouldn't it be better to swap the slippers for something else and tell him he's good, rather than shouting NO at him and then ignoring him when he drops them?

Depends on the situation I suppose. My pup was very well behaved, so I didn't get the chase me with the remote problem and I don't have experience of naughty puppies. lol


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Elles said:


> The examples you give would be like play bowing though? Inviting you to play? 'Hey look, I've got this yummy thing that you like too, let's play! Chase me.'
> 
> So when you ignore him, he realises that you don't want to play, you aren't interested in his shenanigans, so he loses interest and realises it doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Mine used to do it if he was bored or wanted attention deffinately. Trouble is if no boundaries are drawn at an earlier stage and the behaviour works everytime on their terms or you give into things, you can create a monster.

If he was chewing or got something dangerous or something that I really didnt want him to chew I would do the swap thing and re-direction onto something he could have.

As the OP hasnt exactly made clear what the exact situation is, or exactly what the doing something he shouldnt is, cant really do specifics. If a pup/dog was in my face barking though non stop when he couldnt get his own way, thats what I did/would do. In fact thats what my older girl sibes used to do when he was barking for what they had, turned there backs on him. Incidently I never use No, in fact I never use a raised voice for any commands. If you had an emergency situation and they hear No in a loud voice all the time, then you likely wouldnt be able to use it to halt them in their tracks in an emergency.


----------



## PippinsMummy (Sep 7, 2011)

I always try and redirect my puppys attention however he is incredibly stubborn. 

He rarely hears no. I never ever raise my voice when i talk to him, i talk firmly but i don't shout.

But i've found he has got alot more vocal (his father was quite a vocal fellow)
as hes got older and i dont want to upset the neighbours XD


----------



## Verity (Aug 17, 2011)

I know the feeling - my puppy is 4 months old. He likes to test the boundaries with trying to get on the sofa (he is not allowed) - I say 'no, off' and he gets off but barks or grumbles away. So instead I encourage other good practice like chewing his own toys and not my feet and praise that. I do not give attention to attention seeking ways - stealing things from the sofa, slippers, socks etc but just divert with toys and praise.

He soon gives up but I struggle sometimes not to giggle as he is so easy to read.....he looks around and you can almost see the thought processes in his head....what can I do now to cause trouble?


----------



## MeowPurr (May 30, 2011)

I currently have a 16 week old puppy and he sometimes gives a bark back at me when I say no, but not very often. I'll say "no" and he'll instantly stop whatever it is he's doing, bark, then that's it... he wont go back to what it was he was doing.



Elles said:


> I think if you find a 4 month old puppy doing something wrong, it's better to redirect them to something else, something you would like them to do and praise them for that instead of saying NO tbh.


I'm not a dog trainer and am learning myself with my 4 month old pupp and it might just be my way of thinking, but when I read this I just thought: couldn't this reinforce him to repeat his actions (like chewing something he shouldn't)? So for example, your puppy is chewing the edge of the carpet, you don't say "no" you just go up and give him a toy then praise, but what stops him from thinking he's being rewarded for chewing the carpet? Like "I chew this and I get toys and mums attention!"


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Incidently I never use No, in fact I never use a raised voice for any commands. If you had an emergency situation and they hear No in a loud voice all the time, then you likely wouldnt be able to use it to halt them in their tracks in an emergency.


Indeed. If I do that it's panic for his safety . I can recall 3-4 times in the last year. Whilst I'd prefer not to do it at all.. it does seem to get his attention.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

MeowPurr said:


> I currently have a 16 week old puppy and he sometimes gives a bark back at me when I say no, but not very often. I'll say "no" and he'll instantly stop whatever it is he's doing, bark, then that's it... he wont go back to what it was he was doing.
> 
> I'm not a dog trainer and am learning myself with my 4 month old pupp and it might just be my way of thinking, but when I read this I just thought: couldn't this reinforce him to repeat his actions (like chewing something he shouldn't)? So for example, your puppy is chewing the edge of the carpet, you don't say "no" you just go up and give him a toy then praise, but what stops him from thinking he's being rewarded for chewing the carpet? Like "I chew this and I get toys and mums attention!"


With bad timing you can inadvertently reward any wrong behaviour even when training. If you are in any doubt, what I do is put a "marker" in between
IE he has got something he shouldnt,and you are going to do the swap to get it away from him, you can show him a nice smelly treat, to distract him and get his interest onto that or a squeaky toy, but then get him to do a sit, or try to get him to come to you for it and still perhaps sit before he gets it.
That way it cant be mistaken for just giving up the thing or stopping what he is doing, he has had to focus on the item, either come to you and or sit first
so there is a marker in between. Dont know if its perfect text book, but thats what Ive always done and it seems to have worked.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

diefenbaker said:


> Indeed. If I do that it's panic for his safety . I can recall 3-4 times in the last year. Whilst I'd prefer not to do it at all.. it does seem to get his attention.


I would prefer to not do it at all but there can be times as you say it is handy, in reasons of safety, because its out the ordinary and unusual, it does make them likely to stop and think, where as if you use a raised or loud voice all the time, its the usual thing so more likely to be ignored and not have any effect at all. Using loud voices and worse still shouting can stress some dogs anyway.


----------



## Joan (Aug 21, 2009)

I would love my dogs to chat!! Couldn't you start to say "Speak" or something similar and pair it with a hand signal and treat him when he is doing it. Then as he gets the hang of it ask him to do it at other times. 

I was thinking: 
1. The treat might stop him from grumbling and you would be rewarding the talking not the original naughty behaviour 
2. You'd be training him to do a new trick 
3. If he is grumbling out if annoyance, asking him to do it at other times and rewarding him might weaken the association between being told off and grumbling.

You could even then add in a stop command and see if this works when he is grumbling when he's been told off.

Also if he is vocal it's only a matter of time before he says "I love my Momma" or something just as cute and then it's You've Been Framed and £250!!


----------



## MeowPurr (May 30, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> With bad timing you can inadvertently reward any wrong behaviour even when training. If you are in any doubt, what I do is put a "marker" in between
> IE he has got something he shouldnt,and you are going to do the swap to get it away from him, you can show him a nice smelly treat, to distract him and get his interest onto that or a squeaky toy, but then get him to do a sit, or try to get him to come to you for it and still perhaps sit before he gets it.
> That way it cant be mistaken for just giving up the thing or stopping what he is doing, he has had to focus on the item, either come to you and or sit first
> so there is a marker in between. Dont know if its perfect text book, but thats what Ive always done and it seems to have worked.


Ohhhh I see! thanks for explaining that Sled dog hotel. It makes a lot of sense and something new I have learned and will use with my puppy rather than the "no".

I have just found a puppy/dog school in the next town that I like the look of and the trainer is very nice. I will be getting him booked in for classes hopefully if they can fit me in for the 11 week course that starts at the end of September, fingers crossed. I think this will be a great thing for both me and my puppy.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

MeowPurr said:


> Ohhhh I see! thanks for explaining that Sled dog hotel. It makes a lot of sense and something new I have learned and will use with my puppy rather than the "no".
> 
> I have just found a puppy/dog school in the next town that I like the look of and the trainer is very nice. I will be getting him booked in for classes hopefully if they can fit me in for the 11 week course that starts at the end of September, fingers crossed. I think this will be a great thing for both me and my puppy.


See what you think of the puppy school, otherwise APDT Association of Pet Dog trainers website should find one in your area. APDT have to follow a code of conduct and be assessed before becoming a member and they have to follow a code of conduct using only kind effective reward based methods.
So just in case here is the link Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK or E-Mail [email protected]


----------



## MeowPurr (May 30, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> See what you think of the puppy school, otherwise APDT Association of Pet Dog trainers website should find one in your area. APDT have to follow a code of conduct and be assessed before becoming a member and they have to follow a code of conduct using only kind effective reward based methods.
> So just in case here is the link Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK or E-Mail [email protected]


Aww that's brilliant, thanks for that Sled dog hotel! :thumbup:.


----------

