# pugalier breeder - problems



## mazzag77 (Jan 11, 2011)

hi everyone 

i'm new to this site

i'm not a breeder but am a cat and dog lover and could do with a bit of advice

we've been looking for a new puppy for a while and came across a breeder advertising `pugaliers ' . cavalier and pug cross.

i went to see her and fell in love with the puppies and said i would have one.
she was asking £650 each and they didnt come with any papers. i was pretty horrified at the price but the little puppy was so lovely and i read a lot about this cross breed having a very nice temperament - especially with children and we have an 18 month old baby 

i went and saw her on the wed nite and said i would have one of the puppies.
on the thursday i had a few doubts - several doggie friends had said how ridiculous the price was - especially with no papers ( altho have since realised there wouldnt be any papers cos pugaliers are basically a mongrel ! ) 

i was also nervous cos she was letting the puppy go at 6 weeks - it had had no checks at the vet and obviously no immunisations .

the woman was very pushy and when i aired my doubts she started hassling me saying that she had other people interested and if i didnt want the puppy to say there and then 

i felt a bit pressurised and ended up giving her a deposit on paypal - she wanted a 250 deposit but as monies bit tight i gave her 300 and did it on a credit card 

anyway the fri morning i realised what a mistake i'd made - we do want a puppy but there were so many things worrying me so i emailed her and profusely apologised but said i'd changed my mind 

i didnt go into all the aspects of my doubts as i didnt want to get into an argument i just said at the time that it wasnt as good an idea as i originally thought etc and that as i'd told her so quickly i would appreicate my deposit back .

the woman turned nasty - almost to the point of madness tbh ! really offensive emails saying i wasnt a true animal lover and buying on a whim etc etc . got quite nasty 

anyway weve toed and froed with the emails and she's now saying she'll give me back half my deposit .

i know it must ne very annoying for breeders to have people back out of a sale but i didnt see the puppy on a whim - there were a lot of things worrying me about this breeder and i felt as i told her so quickly that i had changed my mind ( within 24 hours ! ) that it would be acceptable

the woman ranted on and on about all these people that had rung her and she'd told her the puppy was sold etc - but as the puppy is only 6 weeks surely thats too early anyway for the puppy to be going ?

i dont want to irritate anyone with this post but i hope people will understand why i had such doubts - and yes i shouldnt have let her talk me into it when i had doubts but i had really fallen in love with the dog . 

i feel this woman is being unreasonable and i do feel that i want to complain about her to some higher authority .

i spoke to my solicitor who said i would win in court as the deposit was never mentioned as non returnable - but we decided that the solicitors fees would work out more than she owes me anyway 

if she sells the puppy i dont see why i cant have my deposit back 

when we got a kitten a while back the breeder said if we had any problems ( my husband has an allergy to some cats ) that she would take the kitten back and refund me once he was resold .

would appreciate any helpful comments thanks mary


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

There is a fantastic new tool available that you could of used to research puppies of your chosen breed and help you avoid all of these problems. It's called the "World Wide Web"


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

To be honest take the half deposit and chalk it up to experience. IMO you are right to walk away, this cross could be fraught with health problems and you have probably saved yourself thousands in vet bills.

You reserved a pup, paid a deposit and i think she is being pretty fair returning half of it to you (wether she said it was refundable or not) Legally you might be in the right but its really not worth the grief.

If you want a small cross breed check out your local rescue centres, you will probably only pay the amount she is returning to you and you will give a home to an unwanted dog


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## kellyalfie (Jan 3, 2011)

These pups are cross breeds you wont get papers and £650 for a cross is shocking, you have done the right thing not having one of these pups.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I've met two of these crosses. One was a lovely little dog healthy nice temperment, the other one couldn't walk 20m without breathing problems. I wouldn't get one. Just walk away take half the deposit back and find a good breeder who health tests and cares where the puppies go. 

You can't get pedigree papers for a mutt and 650 is just ridiculous


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## mazzag77 (Jan 11, 2011)

i really dont see why people have to be nasty - hawksport if you read the post properly then you'll see i had researched the breed - i had so many doubts afterwards because i did not feel the breeder was doing things in the right way .
i do not appreciate your comments so please dont waste your time posting when you obviously havent read my post properly 
i have had animals all my life and my mum bred cats for years so i'm not totally stupid i just wanted a bit of advice 
jeez


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## mazzag77 (Jan 11, 2011)

but thanks to those who sent a sensible reply much appreciated


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

I think you should just take the half back that she has agreed too & take it as a learning curve.

The alarm bells were ringing..no health check, no immunisation, pushy breeder you just didn`t listen to them in time. If you decide to get a puppy in the future make sure if u have any doubts you question the breeder & if not happy walk away.

If money is tight its probably not the right time for a pup with vaccinations etc to pay for & if neither of the parents where health tested you could end up with a pup with alot of additional problems & cost on top.
I think you have done the right thing in changing your mind. In an ideal world if she sells the pup easily at the same price you would get your full deposit back, however i doesnt sound like this breeder is someone who has high moral standards anyway.

Good luck


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

how can you research a 'breed' that doesnt exsist  you get 2 genes, one from mum one from dad 2 completly different dogs, so who knows what it will be like? and crosses go for stupid money.

pop to the local hundreds of crosses in there give one a nice home :thumbup:

no one should ever feel pressured to leave a deposit, just walk away.

with the court she coulkd easily say that 'I said it was non refundable' you have no writing and cant prove anything. Id take he half depo back and run for the hills.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

mazzag77 said:


> i really dont see why people have to be nasty - hawksport if you read the post properly then you'll see i had researched the breed - i had so many doubts afterwards because i did not feel the breeder was doing things in the right way .
> i do not appreciate your comments so please dont waste your time posting when you obviously havent read my post properly
> i have had animals all my life and my mum bred cats for years so i'm not totally stupid i just wanted a bit of advice
> jeez


If you had researched the breed you would of known a cross breed wont come with papers, you wouldn't of put a deposit down by pay pal and you wouldn't of put a deposit down on a puppy from a breeder pushing a puppy like this. The only sympathy I have is for all the unhealthy poorly bred puppies being bred by money grabbing breeders funded by people who do no research. There is no excuse for it


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## mazzag77 (Jan 11, 2011)

hawksport 
dont post again on my thread 
i know a lot about animals but just cos i'm not a total expert on mixed breeds doesnt mean i'm stupid - and does not require your patronising and agressive posts 
you have a severe attitude problem - i really hope you're not an animal breeder 
dont post on here any more


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Never said you were stupid just that you hadn't done the research. If you spent the only day you don't work helping dogs that had been bought in this way you might feel the same


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

hi
as a cavalier breeder they are asking for more or less what i sell one of my kc reg pups for and both sire and dam have had all the health checks done (heart,eyes,mri) so to me this is a silly price to pay i never let my pups go till they are at least 8 weeks old.

have you paid a deposit?


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I have been looking at cross yorkies recently and am amazed at how expensive some of these crosses are. Most are dearer than KC reg yorkies - beggers belief!


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

It's great to hear you walked away from this breeder. You may have lost £150 in the deposit, but you could have lost a lot more money if you got this puppy and it had severe health problems, which a cross like this is likely to have. 

I would suggest spending time researching different breeds, and if you don't want a pedigree dog, then maybe think about going to rescue centres that have loads of crossbreeds. It's not worth lining the pockets of breeders who crossbreed irresponsibly (very few crossbreed responsibly). 

Can I ask why you chose the cavalier x pug cross?


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

You've had a bad experience, and felt pressured into paying a deposit to what sounds like someone thats jumping on the crossbreed band wagon. You're not the first to make this kind of mistake and unfortunately you're not going to be the last. 
Very much doubt you're going to get the full deposit back, in fact by the sounds of it I'd be gobsmacked if you did. Take the money being offered and chalk it up to a bad experience never to be repeated. 
If you want a dog, why not pay a visit to your local rescue centres. Ok you may not get a pup. But you'd get a dog that has been vac'd, spayed/neutered and behaviour tested too. And it would be so grateful for a loving home.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

sorry ive just read all your post and i will always take a puppy back and rehome it also why not go for a full cavalier or a full pug?

the breeder sounds a prat you did the right thing walking away but she should have gave you a full refund.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Pugalier....lol. When I was a child we would have called it a "pavement special". In fact, as a child, I got a puppy from an accidental litter, a cross between a pedigree golden labrador (dad) and a pedigree basset (mom). A lovely girl she was, but very odd-looking (golden coloured and low-slung, looked like an Ikea coffee table)) and had very bad arthritus when she got old. But she was never anything more than a mongrel. I suppose nowadays she would be sold at a huge price as a "Labsett" or "Bassador".


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

That's an unusual cross and not sure if the mating of those two breeds would produce healthy pups ?

I think you may have to chalk this one up to experience hun.

If you are not bothered about a specific cross then people who have suggested rescues are a good idea.

However if you want a specific cross then try and find a reputable breeder by word of mouth or trying to find others who have this type of pup using forums etc...

When looking at crosses look at the two individual breeds to ascertain whether that cross is a good match both health wise and personality traits and lifestyle.

I have a Cavalier cross mine is a Cavapoo ( cav x poodle). She is gorgeous and full of fun and mischief but with the lap dogs trait of the Cavalier. However she is very agile and bombs around the field. Her pic is in my avatar.

Good luck in finding another pup :thumbup:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

That seems a bit mean to not give the deposit back. With our recent litter of purebred pugs we had a similar thing. Someone came to look at the pups, paid a £200 cash deposit (we only ask £100 but he wanted to give £200) and reserved the pup. The following day he rang to say his wife or mother or someone had gone out and bought a pup then and there without telling anyone, he just came home and there was a pup there. He wasnt happy as it was unreg and not good quality, but the breeder was refusing to take it back, blah blah blah... Anyway, we returned his full deposit as it had only been a day, although it was a bit annoying for us as we had turned away a couple of enquiries in that time.

But, theres not a lot you can do, you handed over the deposit for the pup and you changed YOUR mind, so the breeder doesnt have to give you a penny back. I'd just take the half she's offered and chalk it up to experience.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Well ime sure you have done the right thing walking away, many wouldnt even if they had realised they had made a mistake, I didnt and with disasterous consequences, its so easy to feel for the pups and know someone somewhere are going to buy them and would rather it be us that would look after them and do the right thing by them whatever the cost and to get them away from an unfeeling breeder. So put it down to experience and move on, we all make mistakes, jump and then think ime sure at sometime during in our lifetime with something or other. We live and learn.:thumbup:


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

Welcome to the forum!
Hate to be the one to say this! but you have been well and truelly had, led up the garden path, taken for a ride call it what you like! A typical purveyor of livestock who does not give a sod to how her offspring end up! Some will cross ANYTHING! the only reason to achieve top dollar! seems you found yourself one of these! the low of the low in my book! Sorry you've been had - but don't know how you stand legally! There are cooling of periods for internet buying, as there are for any item brought on credit! dunno if using your credit card will give you any clout!!!!! out of interet did she have a merchant accout as a business - or was it a personal paypal account that you paid it too?


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

suggest u speak 2 your credit card company and see where u stand as some do offer a degree of protection, which is a fail safe in paying cash u have no come back, worth a try.... failing that then yes down to experience I suppose, I don't have anything against cross breeds or mongrels, grew up with a wide variety, but crikey the cost alone would have had alarm bells ringing for me  good luck in your search for a pup though and owuld echo everyone else, look at rescue as they even get pups in as well as adults


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Its such a shame that people are breeding what used to be called " mongrels" and are getting such large amounts of money for them, i think it will just get more people breeding x breeds and the health probs could be terrible,hope the OP gets the prob ref her money sorted out. please go look at rescues they are full to bursting of puppies wanting forever homes


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

I would take the half back and be gratefull I didn't get the pup but might be worth doing what others have said since you paid by paypal.

Is is the pug or cav breed you like most? You could contact the breed rescues as they might have crosses of the breed aswell as pedigrees.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Some breeders will take deposits because they can and it quick money before pups leave. I have no idea why they are not given back if someone is to drop out for a vaild reason or in a short space of time - we do not take deposits as do not want to get our selves into an 'agreement' if we later change our mind on the pup we keep back or keep more than one. Deposits can be more trouble than their worth. Of course alot of 'decent' breeders do take deposits and I have no problem with that - just we have never done so. The people on our list show to us their committed in other ways.

I am sorry you was pressured into paying a deposit and suppoting such a breeder at the same time. Take what she will give you and walk away - its a mistake on your part to be fair. You should have learnt all you could, and thought hard about the breeder, litter and mix before laying down a deposit. You should have also got some sort of note signed by you and breeder to say what you had paid and what would happen if you didnt want the pup any more before pick up dates.

If the puppies were ready to leave then why was you paying a deposit at the time you could pick a pup up and then just pay in full?? Also after viewing the pups why didnt you leave the deposit then? and why was it done over paypal something here doesnt add up.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

mazzag77 said:


> we've been looking for a new puppy for a while and came across a breeder advertising `pugaliers ' . cavalier and pug cross.


Both of these breeds are very unhealthy....are you sure thats a wise cross to be getting?



mazzag77 said:


> i went to see her and fell in love with the puppies and said i would have one.
> she was asking £650 each and they didnt come with any papers. i was pretty horrified at the price but the little puppy was so lovely and i read a lot about this cross breed having a very nice temperament - especially with children and we have an 18 month old baby
> 
> i went and saw her on the wed nite and said i would have one of the puppies.
> on the thursday i had a few doubts - several doggie friends had said how ridiculous the price was - especially with no papers ( altho have since realised there wouldnt be any papers cos pugaliers are basically a mongrel ! )


Cavaliers are good with children, pugs are too. But a cross may have all sorts of temperament problems. You are best going for a full breed that is good with children poodles are fantastic with children, but ti all depends on how the dog is raised. HOWEVER with a cross you dont know exactly what you are getting as no two cross's are the same.

You believing you were getting a pedigree dog is exactly the reason breeders should not be advertising them with stupid names.



mazzag77 said:


> i was also nervous cos she was letting the puppy go at 6 weeks - it had had no checks at the vet and obviously no immunisations.


No good breeder will let a dog go under 7-8 week old (8 week in my book is best) and certainly not without at least 1 vaccine.



mazzag77 said:


> the woman was very pushy and when i aired my doubts she started hassling me saying that she had other people interested and if i didnt want the puppy to say there and then
> 
> i felt a bit pressurised and ended up giving her a deposit on paypal - she wanted a 250 deposit but as monies bit tight i gave her 300 and did it on a credit card
> 
> ...


Did you sign or agree deposit in anyway?
Alot of pedigree breeders dont take deposits though Alaska's breeder took a £300 deposit off me and we signed to say that If I backed out she could keep the deposit.



mazzag77 said:


> i dont want to irritate anyone with this post but i hope people will understand why i had such doubts - and yes i shouldnt have let her talk me into it when i had doubts but i had really fallen in love with the dog .
> 
> i feel this woman is being unreasonable and i do feel that i want to complain about her to some higher authority .
> 
> ...


Sadly alot of breeders will not give you the deposit back....its there to prevent time wasters as many breeders end up with nearly a half of the waiting list backing out by the time pups are ready to go.



mazzag77 said:


> when we got a kitten a while back the breeder said if we had any problems ( my husband has an allergy to some cats ) that she would take the kitten back and refund me once he was resold .


You got a cat without checking that you were both not allergic?:confused1:

This cross breeder obviously saw you coming a mile off but you need to start thinking more before buying or putting down money on a animal dog or cat.....


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## 12jane (Jan 3, 2010)

did you gift it via paypal or do it like you would when purchasing something?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> No good breeder will let a dog go under 7-8 week old (8 week in my book is best) and certainly not without at least 1 vaccine.


sorry not true. I know loads of good breeders who NEVER do the first vaccination - whats the point when most new owner will only have to pay for the first to be re done on top of the second. Either do none, or both.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> sorry not true. I know loads of good breeders who NEVER do the first vaccination - whats the point when most new owner will only have to pay for the first to be re done on top of the second. Either do none, or both.


Every breeder I have spoken to in shelties give their vaccine either the day they leave (you go with them to have it done) or do it the same week.

Infact at the blackpool dog show I got talking to a group of keeshond breeders who were all talking about vaccinating pups and all of them said they vaccinate before they leave.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Both the pug and the cavalier have severe health problems associated with the breed, if you want one of those breeds research them well and if you are still interested then go to a good breeder who is aware of the problems and is breeding to minimise them.

Or just go to rescue and find a lovely little dog that needs a home.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> sorry not true. I know loads of good breeders who NEVER do the first vaccination - whats the point when most new owner will only have to pay for the first to be re done on top of the second. Either do none, or both.


Agree.

We only do vaccs if the new owner asks, of if we're keeping the pup longer to cover holidays or something. I prefer for the new owner to have the vaccs done at thei own vets and have a full health check done on the pup, as we give a written agreement saying that if they or their vet arent happy with the pup for whatever reason in the first week or so, then we will refund the purchase price.

With cats I think breeders have to give the first vaccs (maybe the entire course) but the majority of dog breeders dont.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Every breeder I have spoken to in shelties give their vaccine either the day they leave (you go with them to have it done) or do it the same week.
> 
> Infact at the blackpool dog show I got talking to a group of keeshond breeders who were all talking about vaccinating pups and all of them said they vaccinate before they leave.


Thats odd. So do their puppies live in the same area then? As vets use different stuff, and most will make new owners re do the first that was done at the breeders as was possibly done with different stuff at a different practice.


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

I don't vaccinate either unless the pup is expected to stay with me until after 8 weeks, then I do them both.

Either both or none at all.... far too great of risk of vets changing brands/ over vaccinating puppies if one vaccine has already been done


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Agree.
> 
> We only do vaccs if the new owner asks, of if we're keeping the pup longer to cover holidays or something. I prefer for the new owner to have the vaccs done at thei own vets and have a full health check done on the pup, as we give a written agreement saying that if they or their vet arent happy with the pup for whatever reason in the first week or so, then we will refund the purchase price.


Thats exactly the same as us - our contract states they need to book their puppy into a vets in the first week or two for first jab, and a check over and like you if not happy we refund. we have done vaccs before on pups who we to keep longer for the owners, and on this little fella that leaves sat ( :scared: ) as he had a bad start in life with nearly lossing him, we kept him longer than usaul due to size and we wanted both done before he left our house!


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

only done it once pup had first jab at my vets , and as puppy owners vet used nobivac too he had no objection to my vet giving the first one. (although it works out dearer than having both done at same vet)


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Blu didn't have his because I already had him booked in at the vets! And Jack was 12 weeks old so his breeder had already done both. Not sure I'd want the first vaccine done unless I was going to the same vet as the breeder


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Thats odd. So do their puppies live in the same area then? As vets use different stuff, and most will make new owners re do the first that was done at the breeders as was possibly done with different stuff at a different practice.


Kai's breeder gave him his first vaccine they live in Kent I live in Lancashire.
All I had to do was ring my vet and tell them the name of the vaccine and they booked me in for the same vaccine (2nd vaccine but same make).

Same with Alaska....

Alaska's breeder takes you to her vets and vaccinates the whole litter there and then, then you take them home. She also chips them so she can keep hold of the number.

When we got Alaska another lady was there from Devon and she had no problems with the vaccine either.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

I did do the first jab with last litter... will have to think what i will be doing with this litter


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Alaska's breeder takes you to her vets and vaccinates the whole litter there and then, then you take them home. She also chips them so she can keep hold of the number.


That is madness - what about if she had like 10 puppies in a litter she takes all new owners to the vets to witness the first injection :scared:

It most common that breeders do both, or none - I have heard far to many horror stories to ever want to risk it with just giving the first vacc.


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Murphy had his first vacc when i got him...waste of time as our 2 local vets one used a different brand, the other wasn`t happy he`d had first vacc at 6weeks & also recommended restarting it.

Other owners from the same litter had similar problems apart from one who lived locally to breeder & was able to use same vet


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

I will have too rethink this, maybe keeping the litter a little longer and letting them go after 2 jab


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Tanya1989 said:


> I don't vaccinate either unless the pup is expected to stay with me until after 8 weeks, then I do them both.
> 
> Either both or none at all.... far too great of risk of vets changing brands/ over vaccinating puppies if one vaccine has already been done


agree:thumbup:


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## gladass (Jan 6, 2011)

mazzag77 said:


> i really dont see why people have to be nasty - hawksport if you read the post properly then you'll see i had researched the breed - i had so many doubts afterwards because i did not feel the breeder was doing things in the right way .
> i do not appreciate your comments so please dont waste your time posting when you obviously havent read my post properly
> i have had animals all my life and my mum bred cats for years so i'm not totally stupid i just wanted a bit of advice
> jeez


I read your op and feel you did not really research enough or you were silly from the start off. 
You posted that the pups were a ridiculous price----so why did you actually go view in first place knowing the ridiculous price?

You are complaining that the pups were 6weeks old---so why did you actually go view in the first place?

As for your deposit, imo you did waste someone's time etc.. so I would take your half that is being offered and maybe next time do your homework and then when satisfied go view pups.
Going by what you have posted re your experience etc..You must have had bad feelings about these puos before visiting


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Kai's breeder gave him his first vaccine they live in Kent I live in Lancashire.
> All I had to do was ring my vet and tell them the name of the vaccine and they booked me in for the same vaccine (2nd vaccine but same make).
> 
> Same with Alaska....
> ...


also i would like to think the breeder would hold on to the puppies for a few days after the vaccination incase of any reaction to it you could take the pup straight from the vet and something happen because of the vaccine


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

archiebaby said:


> agree:thumbup:


Some vets will supply the vials for the booster! So I have been told! Dunno if its true or not!


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> also i would like to think the breeder would hold on to the puppies for a few days after the vaccination incase of any reaction to it you could take the pup straight from the vet and something happen because of the vaccine


Totally any pup should remian at breeders for a period of time after injections - 
I have known this to happen to, reactions from both first or second vacc.
The latest was friend that had her Akita pup vaccinated I believe it was his second course, at 12 weeks - he died - an autopsy was carried out and the cause of death was the vaccinations - I know the pup was stud return and am not sure if the breeder did the first before letting him go, or if both was done with our friend though - but this is just one of the many stories I have heard about them


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## gladass (Jan 6, 2011)

shetlandlover said:


> Alaska's breeder takes you to her vets and vaccinates the whole litter there and then, then you take them home. She also chips them so she can keep hold of the number.
> .


I find this rather starnge. Pups can have a reaction to vaccinations. Its hard enough on pups movin away from their mother and litter mates without just being vaccinated imo
I have had pups take mild reactions to vaccinations eg drowsy, sickness


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Some vets will supply the vials for the booster! So I have been told! Dunno if its true or not!


i dont take a chance on it if the puppy is going fairly local then the new owners can find out from their vet what vaccine they are currently using then i would be happy to get the first one done, if not i would not do any but reimburse the price of the vaccine


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Some vets will supply the vials for the booster! So I have been told! Dunno if its true or not!


We were given the empty vial off Murphy`s first vacc to take to our vets so they could record the number etc & records to hand on...but our vet still wouldn`t give a vaccine of the different brand then what he routinely used

Maybe my vets just finicky


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Totally any pup should remian at breeders for a period of time after injections -
> I have known this to happen to, reactions from both first or second vacc.
> The latest was friend that had her Akita pup vaccinated I believe it was his second course, at 12 weeks - he died - an autopsy was carried out and the cause of death was the vaccinations - I know the pup was stud return and am not sure if the breeder did the first before letting him go, or if both was done with our friend though - but this is just one of the many stories I have heard about them


exactly dd, death from the vaccination is not a one off situation puppies should always be kept for at least a few days after vaccinating just in case of any adverse reaction to it


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> also i would like to think the breeder would hold on to the puppies for a few days after the vaccination incase of any reaction to it you could take the pup straight from the vet and something happen because of the vaccine


And the pup just having had jab then going to there new home, i would think the puppy would be a bit grumpy not the best start


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

claire & the gang said:


> We were given the empty vial off Murphy`s first vacc to take to our vets so they could record the number etc & records to hand on...but our vet still wouldn`t give a vaccine of the different brand then what he routinely used
> 
> Maybe my vets just finicky


and of course he got the money for the 2 courses of injections needed


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

archielee said:


> And the pup just having had jab then going to there new home, i would think the puppy would be a bit grumpy not the best start


i know, poor little things jabbed and then sent off


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

To the OP, this has gone a little OT with the jabs stuff, but have you considered going to CAB? If this "breeder" had other people queuing to buy her pups, then she can't complain if you want your deposit back. I would be seriously thinking about threatening her with the small claims court or similar. 

Can I just add, although you may not like some of the posts, these are honest posts. What you've come across is a very dishonest breeder, and you've seen their true face since. So would you rather people were honest and up front, or that they deceived you with platitudes? Take it on the chin, and perhaps realise that you hadn't quite done the research that you needed to, if you had, then you wouldn't be in such a sticky situation.

Good luck, I hope this thread serves as a warning to others, not to get themselves into this sort of situation in the first place.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Our breeder did Ollie's first jab, but that's only because they held him for an extra week because of our holidays, so we got him at 9 weeks. We took him to our vet for his second jab and he was fine. I don't know if they were the same brand vaccines or not.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

I know that I live about 30 miles from Alaska's breeder. The other lady who was there from Devon is a sheltie breeder from another kennels and she was staying with Alaska's breeder over night.

The 3rd owner had not turned up so Alaska's breeder brougth the pup along as the new owners were on their way from Manchester. 

The 4th pup had already been vaccinated the day before.

My vet had no problem stocking Kai's vaccine and boosters for when we need them.

Alaska's 1st vaccine is the same make as the vaccine our vet uses regularly.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

Jean Dodds - whose word I would take over anyones reccomends first between nine and ten weeks! Therefore MOST pups would leave the litter WITHOUT their first shot!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

I am shocked that any "responsible" breeder would consider having vaccs done the day the puppy goes. Most of us have owned, or known of, dogs that have had reactions to their vaccinations. I wouldnt let them go until at least 5 days had passed since the vaccination to ensure there will be no problems.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> I am shocked that any "responsible" breeder would consider having vaccs done the day the puppy goes. Most of us have owned, or known of, dogs that have had reactions to their vaccinations. I wouldnt let them go until at least 5 days had passed since the vaccination to ensure there will be no problems.


I agree that vaccination shouldn't be done on the day or a couple of days before a major upheval, such as taking puppy home, or moving house, because vaccination is stressful enough anyway and the body is working with the vaccination to create antibodies. But I have no problem with breeders doing the first vaccination a week or so before giving the pup to the new owners, if the new owners wanted the pup later than 8 weeks. It's better that the puppy gets its first vaccine as close to 8 weeks of age as possible so it can start socialisation early, at 11-12 weeks. (second vaccination at 10 weeks, and then outdoors 1-2 weeks afterwards).


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Jess2308 said:


> I am shocked that any "responsible" breeder would consider having vaccs done the day the puppy goes. Most of us have owned, or known of, dogs that have had reactions to their vaccinations. I wouldnt let them go until at least 5 days had passed since the vaccination to ensure there will be no problems.


the bitch i had done was staying with me for 2 weeks longer as her owners were on holiday


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

My pups had their first vaccinations with me and first pup went 4 days after the jab. I would not have them done much before 8 weeks and no one has had problems getting the right vaccine at their vets. I let them know the vaccine name and their vet just ordered it in. I think you have done the right thing not getting the puppy. you need to be 100% happy, Don't be bullied next time, if they are using agressive sales tactics they are desperate to sell their puppies and that is not a good sign Good luck in your future puppy hunt. The best advice is find a great breeeder and just wait for their next litter. Patience really is a virtue in the doggy world


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

You paid the deposit using a credit card? 

The fact that this 'breeder' accepts credit cards says it all to me


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

I haven't read through all the posts as it had gone off topic and people before have written what i was going to say so would just like to say I hope you have learned from this experience and wish you luck in finding another puppy. Research the breed/s and if something doesnt seem right then you can be sure it probably isn't. There is nothing wrong with viewing a puppy then say you want to go away and think about it or prehaps have a look at some more litters. A decent breeder wont mind you doing this as they would want you to be sure on wanting one of their pups before taking any money.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> You paid the deposit using a credit card?
> 
> The fact that this 'breeder' accepts credit cards says it all to me


Think it may have been paypal Rocco


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Think it may have been paypal Rocco


yup, was via Paypal 

tbh i would ask for some of the deposit back but i cant see you getting it. You say she didnt tell you the deposit was non-returnable, did you ask?

Ive never heard of a deposit actually being returnable as you are booking the pup and assuring the breeder you are taking rhe pup :confused1:


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I know you realised afterwards - but well done you for realising.

As others have said - I would take what she is offering you and chalk it up to experience - breeders like this give everyone a bad name - you have had a very narrow escape - 

I am delighted you had the courage of your convictions to back out when you did - I wish there were more people around like you.

Hope you find a puppy deserving of your love and attention (after a bit more research )


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Starlite said:


> tbh i would ask for some of the deposit back but i cant see you getting it.


The breeder has agreed to giving half the deposit back.



mazzag77 said:


> anyway weve toed and froed with the emails and she's now saying she'll give me back half my deposit


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2011)

But by accepting part of the deposit would not not be accepting that a full and final settlement?
Have you looked at the option of lodging a complaint via paypal?


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> The breeder has agreed to giving half the deposit back.





DoubleTrouble said:


> But by accepting part of the deposit would not not be accepting that a full and final settlement?
> Have you looked at the option of lodging a complaint via paypal?


exactly


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## PrettyPugs (Jan 11, 2011)

Im so sorry that this has happened to you. Getting a new family member should be a happy time. Good luck hun.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

To be honest at this time a year on top of the already packed full dogs homes a lot of dogs are given up for rehoming and a lot are puppies purchased by people who find that having a pup isnt what they thought it will be. You will find all sorts pedigrees and crosses. For a donation fee no where near the purchase price of these pups. You will have a dog, that is vet checked, wormed, flea treated, in the caase of one slightly older spayed/neutered and if not given a voucher/help with spaying when its old enough depending on where you go. A lot are even micro chipped and certainly assesed temprement wise too.

So check through the nearest dogs homes and rehoming centres,most have some of the dogs available for rehoming on line.


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## kayte45 (Dec 12, 2014)

You have walked into uncharted and sometimes hostile territory. Rogue breeders rely on you gazing into their dogs eyes and getting hooked. But all the warning bells started ringing. You may be able to get your money back using the small claims court, which is inexpensive, if you word it carefully (to rest on your solicitor's point?). Citizens Advice may advise.
The anger here belongs towards rogue breeders. You want to know who the breeders are, the set-up, buyer support, etc. Good breeders behave with regard to the wellbeing of their puppies. And they are friendly and helpful. I hope you go forward to a much better experience.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

kayte45 said:


> You have walked into uncharted and sometimes hostile territory. Rogue breeders rely on you gazing into their dogs eyes and getting hooked. But all the warning bells started ringing. *You may be able to get your money back using the small claims court, which is inexpensive, if you word it carefully (to rest on your solicitor's point?). Citizens Advice may advise.*
> The anger here belongs towards rogue breeders. You want to know who the breeders are, the set-up, buyer support, etc. Good breeders behave with regard to the wellbeing of their puppies. And they are friendly and helpful. I hope you go forward to a much better experience.


This thread is almost 4 years old, not much point in going to small claims court now!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

This is a very old post. I suspect it's a bit late now


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

wow this is a old thread


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

kayte45 said:


> You have walked into uncharted and sometimes hostile territory. Rogue breeders rely on you gazing into their dogs eyes and getting hooked. But all the warning bells started ringing. You may be able to get your money back using the small claims court, which is inexpensive, if you word it carefully (to rest on your solicitor's point?). Citizens Advice may advise.
> The anger here belongs towards rogue breeders. You want to know who the breeders are, the set-up, buyer support, etc. Good breeders behave with regard to the wellbeing of their puppies. And they are friendly and helpful. I hope you go forward to a much better experience.


Oldness of the thread aside......

I'd like think that anyone reading this would think twice about purchasing a dog of this cross. Just the name makes me wince and these are a cross between two of the most unhealthy breeds out there. There is NO excuse for crossing these two breeds besides money and they should be avoided at all costs!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I just read through the post. What a lot of familiar names. I did not realise so many regular posters have disappeared.


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## MuttsRule (Dec 23, 2014)

Well, if you want to get technical, Pugaliers are crossbreeds, not mutts. However, I would never buy from a breeder that was letting their puppies go at only 6-weeks-old. I think some people on here are just being rude. Breeders dont refund deposits. I paid $895 for my Cavapoo, but she was vet-checked, was vaccinated, wormed, socialized, raised with kids and came with a health guarantee. I have met a Pugalier in person and can tell you that they are wonderful dogs. I would advise you to ignore the rude people on this forum. Im surprised that the breeder is offering any of your money back. Technically, a Pugalier is a designer BREED. In the United States they are recognized by the American Canine Hybrid Club, Designer Dogs Kennel Club, Dog Registry of America, Inc., and the International Designer Canine Registry. My Cavapoo is quintuple registered with the ACHC, DDKC, DRA, IDCR and the Designer Breed Registry (DBR). When I got my Zuchon, Holly, she was vet-checked, vaccinated, wormed and came with a health guarantee. I paid $450 for her. She is also quintuple registered with the ACHC, DDKC, DRA, IDCR and DBR. They are my only two designer breeds, but I'm very glad that I purchased them! :001_tt2:


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2014)

It makes me sad to think that people are crossing these animals just to try and make 'cool' sounding names first and foremost without any thought about what they are doing. Still, if people continue to show up and pay stupid amounts of money for them i suppose...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

MuttsRule said:


> Well, if you want to get technical, Pugaliers are crossbreeds, not mutts. However, I would never buy from a breeder that was letting their puppies go at only 6-weeks-old. I think some people on here are just being rude. Breeders dont refund deposits. I paid $895 for my Cavapoo, but she was vet-checked, was vaccinated, wormed, socialized, raised with kids and came with a health guarantee. I have met a Pugalier in person and can tell you that they are wonderful dogs. I would advise you to ignore the rude people on this forum. Im surprised that the breeder is offering any of your money back. Technically, a Pugalier is a designer BREED. In the United States they are recognized by the American Canine Hybrid Club, Designer Dogs Kennel Club, Dog Registry of America, Inc., and the International Designer Canine Registry. My Cavapoo is quintuple registered with the ACHC, DDKC, DRA, IDCR and the Designer Breed Registry (DBR). When I got my Zuchon, Holly, she was vet-checked, vaccinated, wormed and came with a health guarantee. I paid $450 for her. She is also quintuple registered with the ACHC, DDKC, DRA, IDCR and DBR. They are my only two designer breeds, but I'm very glad that I purchased them! :001_tt2:


Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 'Designer Breed'. That is purely a name invented by the Breeders to stick a whopping price tag on them.

If you're buying a 'Pugalier' or 'Cavapoo', you're buying a crossbreed.

By the way, no pup can have a "Health Guarantee". You cannot guarantee health in any animal or any Human for that matter.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 'Designer Breed'. That is purely a name invented by the Breeders to stick a whopping price tag on them.
> 
> If you're buying a 'Pugalier' or 'Cavapoo', you're buying a crossbreed.
> 
> By the way, no pup can have a "Health Guarantee". You cannot guarantee health in any animal or any Human for that matter.


From the post you quoted it looks like designer breeds exist in America and have relevant registers. Probably fairly pointless but does not stop them existing - and many crosses are know as designer breeds in the UK too. They are still crossbreeds but you cannot say there is no such thing as a Designer breed, it is a crossbreed from two fashionable breeds to produce something with a silly name and a high price tag.


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## bunny-lover2 (Mar 17, 2009)

Designer breeds are mutts / crossbreeds / heinz 57's. 
Nothing designer about them in my opinion. Just breeders trying to make a crap load of money giving them made up names.

Cavapoo, cockerpoo, jackapoo, yorkiepoo, pugaliers. Had one client at work once innocently say she had bought a new designer puppy.... a jack russell x shih tzu. I shall let you make a name up for that one...

I think in the uk, the only cross breed recognised as a known breed is a labradoodle.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

bunny-lover2 said:


> Designer breeds are mutts / crossbreeds / heinz 57's.
> Nothing designer about them in my opinion. Just breeders trying to make a crap load of money giving them made up names.
> 
> Cavapoo, cockerpoo, jackapoo, yorkiepoo, pugaliers. Had one client at work once innocently say she had bought a new designer puppy.... a jack russell x shih tzu. I shall let you make a name up for that one...
> ...


Labradoodles and cockerpoos are the oldest designer breeds. Cockerpoos have been around since the 50s in America - but that does not make them a known breed any more than the more modern designer breeds or crosses.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Labradoodles and cockerpoos are the oldest designer breeds. Cockerpoos have been around since the 50s in America - but that does not make them a known breed any more than the more modern designer breeds or crosses.


I think it's the fact they call them 'Designer Breeds' that jars with me.

They're not a Breed.

If they want to call them Designer Dogs, well, that's up to them and those who part with eye-watering amounts of money for them, but I don't believe it's okay for someone to invent a 'Breed' because they had an accidental mating between a Jack Russell and a Poodle.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Cross breeds are common here more so than Reg Purebreeds. I've owned several myself but got them knowing they were a Australian Shepherd cros German Shepherd, a llasha apso poodle, and a German Shepherd crossed with something big. All wonderful dogs made awesome pets and all sadly died by 10 years old of different cancers all within 18 months was a very bad sad time around my house. But did prove a point to lots of my friends that crossbreeds are not healthier than purebreds.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

Australian labradoodles are more or less a breed now. It's how breeds started in the begining anyway.

Labradoodle Breeders Puppies For Sale | Tora's Australian Labradoodles


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 'Designer Breed'. That is purely a name invented by the Breeders to stick a whopping price tag on them.


I also dislike the term "Designer". That, to me, indicates someone creating them who has carefully put a lot of effort into choosing the two breeds that go together - someone who knows a lot about dogs, breeding and various breeds.

Like a Fashion Designer and a Graphic Designer, who have to study for years for their chosen profession, and qualify.

We all know that's about as far from the truth as it gets with "Designer" dogs, though.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> Australian labradoodles are more or less a breed now. It's how breeds started in the begining anyway.
> 
> Labradoodle Breeders Puppies For Sale | Tora's Australian Labradoodles


Those are rare compared to people allowing their poodles to be used by anybody who has money, whatever the breed or health. And I'm sure there have been bad reports about the original kennel.

I've nothing against wellbred crosses but there are too many dodgy breeders. I was looking at what's supposed to be one of the top kennels breeding sports mixes border x whippet or staffy and one bitch had 5 litters . They had so many dogs as well.


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I don't know much about Pugaliers as such. My daughter took on a 12 week old pup that someone bought on a whim as a hand bag dog, but proved too much for them. He was hard work for the first year, too clever for his own good, full of energy, but the sweetest dog you could wish for. He is almost 4 now and is one of the best dogs ever, I have had cavaliers for years and as they are couch potatoes they suit me, but as a breed they have been ruined. I don't agree with breeding designer dogs to suit people's needs, but some of the off spring can be and are lovely dogs in their own right.


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