# STAGbars/Antler Dog Chews - an epidemic of fractured teeth



## sianrees1979 (Feb 27, 2009)

DentalVets: Latest vet dental news


----------



## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Oh dear , thanks for that. I got Poppy a new one for her birthday a couple of weeks ago. I keep it in a drawer and give it to her occasionally otherwise it never gets touched. She had a gnaw on it this morning and I thought it sounded extremely loud, louder than I had heard before. I'll keep my eye on her and maybe bin it. Wont be buying any more. What a shame.


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm glad now I followed my instinct not to give Tango bones and stagbars !! What an alarming article, thanks for sharing.


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

The more I hear about them , the more I'm starting to go off them , seen a good few pictures on fb of dogs having to have them surgically removed


----------



## Indiandpuppy (Feb 24, 2013)

I remember the same article about bones hurting teeth ages ago then there was the one about rawhide and choking... 

My vet said All CHEWS and Bones are bad and the best thing for teeth is a diet of Hills Science plan...... 

x


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Indiandpuppy said:


> My vet said All CHEWS and Bones are bad and the best thing for teeth is a diet of Hills Science plan......


It's a matter of risk vs benefit. A large number of raw feeders do not feed "wreck bones", bones which are likely to break teeth. Guess it's clear stag bars fall under this category as well.


----------



## fluke13 (Jan 7, 2013)

Wow my 7 month old loves Antlers soft chews (not the Stag bar but Antler make) not sure now if i should stop her having them. I thought most bones were good for dogs to chew.


----------



## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Ziwipeak deer shanks are also a risk, Heidi has just had her 2nd tooth removed as a result of chewing on one of these too hard


----------



## Rylee (Oct 21, 2011)

This is such a shame, i moved from rawhide chews onto stag bars and she absolutely loves them. She needs a new one as i've had to take the last one away when it got too small but now i'm not sure i should get her one. She does get bones in the form of chicken wings and ribs so i guess they help her teeth. This is really disappointing.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

It doesn't surprise me to be honest. They are extremely hard and don't have any 'give' in them.


----------



## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

I did buy them a large stag bar a few weeks back and none of them were interested in it and it cost a fortune

Will be putting it in the bin now


----------



## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

labradrk said:


> It doesn't surprise me to be honest. They are extremely hard and don't have any 'give' in them.


I agree. I've looked at them in Pets At Home and just decided they weren't worth the risk. Teddy being a small breed it's easy enough to find other, safer things to keep his teeth occupied though. x


----------



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

JJ has the y shaped stagbar with rope and ring on he treats it more like a toy though he nibbled the edges but chewed on the rope more. 

He has managed to eat more of a small one but took it off him and decided a larger one be better so got one looked like a branch as he liked carrying branches out and he got an half antler.. He likes to jump about with them and fling them in the air he did yelp when playing with the half antler and I thought he'd landed on one of the sharp points, I never thought to look in his mouth!..I did check him over and there was no blood coming from anywhere. 

He hasn't had that one again but that was expensive as its huge. 

If bones, stagbars and rawhide chews are bad for them what are we meant to give them to clean their teeth? 

Someone mentioned nylabones aren't good either and JJ can't have rawhide with beef. He has had some venison bones from venison for pets and really enjoyed them though I supervise and take them away once he stripped off the meaty bits and got as much marrowbone as he can get to out of the ends.

I forgot to ask..has anyone tried the K9 highland cheese chew is that made with beef rawhide with cheese in middle or cheese flavoured? anyone know?


----------



## Indiandpuppy (Feb 24, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> JJ has the y shaped stagbar with rope and ring on he treats it more like a toy though he nibbled the edges but chewed on the rope more.
> 
> He has managed to eat more of a small one but took it off him and decided a larger one be better so got one looked like a branch as he liked carrying branches out and he got an half antler.. He likes to jump about with them and fling them in the air he did yelp when playing with the half antler and I thought he'd landed on one of the sharp points, I never thought to look in his mouth!..I did check him over and there was no blood coming from anywhere.
> 
> ...


the k9 highland chew is 100% cheese!

other chew ideas are paddywack, dried liver, pizzles (eurghhhh), fish stuff, dried chicken fillets, dried sausages and dried mango! however if a dog can choke on a pigs ear none of the above are 100% safe!


----------



## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Teddy loves the dried fish treats (he gets the Fish4Dogs ones) which are great for teeth. 

Obviously now he's raw fed he gets to nom on chicken wings etc which clean his teeth too. 

He has pearly white gnashers and I fully intend them to stay that way.


----------



## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

I threw the last stagbar in the bin as I found it in the garden with a slug and snail on. I always did wonder about tooth breakage as they were so hard, this was the 3rd one I have bought so I guess ive been lucky. Whats the best way of your dog cleaning their teeth if bones arnt an option?


----------



## nickmcmechan (Aug 1, 2009)

There are those who have been using them for decades without harm.

You can choke to death on a grape, have you decided to stop eating them?


----------



## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

nickmcmechan said:


> There are those who have been using them for decades without harm.
> 
> You can choke to death on a grape, have you decided to stop eating them?


It isn't the choking hazard that bothers me. It's how hard they are. 

The pics at the bottom of  (( This Raw Feeding Page ))  show the damage feeding inappropriate bones can cause. I have the same concerns about Stag Bars - based on my own feelings - not on stories / reports from elsewhere.


----------



## LANDC (May 12, 2013)

I still think that *NYLABONE* is the best option.

It has been tried and time tested for many years. And it works! It has worked for billions of dogs since 1955, proven to be healthy, safe, decidedly safer than stag bars or hard large bones.

I have a 10 week golden Labrador Retriever and he loves his Puppy Nylabone, roast chicken flavour.

It is made in the USA, and they make them appropriate hardness vs flexibility for puppies, small dogs, medium dogs, large dogs, tasty ones, teeth cleaning ones, etc...


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm not surprised tbh because they are rock solid. Teebs has a small one which he's not interested in other than to carry it around showing it off when someone comes in, he rarely lies down to nibble it though. 

I think they're awful things and don't see the point in something so hard for a dog to 'chew' on, since they can't actually chew it anyway. The prices are ridiculous and for 50p you can get a lovely pork or lamb bone from the butcher which not only cleans teeth but also adds calcium, glocusamine, chondroitin and minerals to the dogs system. Big con Stag Bars are and a total waste of money.


----------



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

when I first got JJ i had a pack of 3 small nylabones he only ate one the one wiht more crumbly texture the other two...one is very hard white one and other is a brown rubbery one.

He did get a pack for xmas which were all the same type..the more crumbly (biscuit-type) texture and he liked them but they went quick. 

I saw a giant one goliath bone or something but its also white and looks very hard like the small white one he still has untouched.

I tried dehydrating chicken to make it chewy but it still didn't last long though at least it was 100% meat. 

I've got a pork joint for sunday and thinking of turning the cracking into a chew though not sure whether to remove the crackling before putting the pork in the oven or waiting until its cooked and turned to crackling then removing it from the joint and putting that part in the dehydrator later? 

Mine like fish skins too but they don't last long.


----------



## LittleTinASoup (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks for the post! I'll be taking Winnies off her as soon as


----------



## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Hmm, I did wonder about this. I know marrow bones are bad for teeth, but my two wear them away much more quickly than stag bars, leading me to the conclusion that stag bars must be harder... Makes sense.


----------



## Bryxy (Jun 6, 2013)

I saw those in the shop and almost bought them but even then thought they looked like the could crack a tooth! Glad I didn't pick any up now


----------



## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Lucky has 2 but hardly touches them.

I certainly won't stop feeding raw bones, the risks are small compared to the benefits for Lucky. She won't crunch down on a larger marrow bone, she strips the meat off then chews the ends. My OH then usually splits them with an axe and I scrape out the marrow for her. The rest goes in the bin. 

I didn't know nylabones were edible? They look like rubber to me, not something I would personally buy for Lucky.


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

labradrk said:


> It doesn't surprise me to be honest. They are extremely hard and don't have any 'give' in them.


Ditto this.

Millie never took to them at all and to be honest im quite glad of that.

Il keep order Pizzle for her to munch on  Doesnt last as long obviously but at least they have some give and break up.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> Ditto this.
> 
> Millie never took to them at all and to be honest im quite glad of that.
> 
> Il keep order Pizzle for her to munch on  Doesnt last as long obviously but at least they have some give and break up.


Mine were not interested in them either.

I know they are a 'natural' chew but when you think about it, an antler isn't a part of the anatomy a dog would ever eat naturally.


----------



## Guest (Jun 14, 2013)

Like so many things, I really think it depends on your dog...





Mine find antler sheds all the time, and they chew on them no problem. But they're large and XL dogs who are used to this type of chew. They don't really "chew" the antlers, it's more of a shaving action with their teeth. This particular find has lasted about 2 years.

OTOH I will not feed raw-hide to any of mine ever, even without the chemicals, my guys just saw large soggy chunks off and swallow them. Major choking and obstruction hazard.


----------



## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

i think it depends on the dog and how they chew them ect , weve had one for scruffy for months and he only uses it occasionaly , he's not a big chewer anyway (apart from pencils he steals  ) , but he sort of knaws on the sides of it with his back teeth he never really bites down on it ... it sort of just looks like some of the outside laer has been rubbed off 

also that article says not to feed raw bones either ......


----------



## Emi89 (Jun 14, 2013)

I was reading this post and thought I'd register to offer my two cents on the topic.

My dog (a small parsons russell type mutt) has had stagbars since about 4 months of age (she's 18months now) 

She took to the gnawing action naturally and doesn't bite down directly, she wears it away until the edges are thin enough to break off. 

Her teeth are healthy, the vet has actually commented on the great condition of them and asked if we brush her teeth. She also really enjoys the challenge of the longer lasting chew. 

On a side note, if you find your dog isn't as interested I'd advise getting one that is dark on the outside and in the middle and therefore still moist on the inside... the ones that are white all the way through are far less interesting and don't offer the same 'reward'. (Perhaps this also means a slightly less dry/solid chew?)

I also tend to buy the larger medium or large size ones (whichever best fits the above 'what to look out for') so perhaps this helps encourage the gnawing due to her size, however, the upsizing was simply due to how quickly she was able to gnaw away a small sized one and her chewing habits didn't change (i.e. She was not chewing any differently even when the antler was small enough to bite down on should she so choose)

It can get quite noisy when she's working to break through a thinner edge but generally it's more of a grinding sound.

Having looked at the pictures in the article I feel it looks a lot like some unhealthy teeth that have been cleaned up by the dental team resulting in the removal of the side of that tooth, more than it being broken in half by one of these chews. Perhaps chewing on something solid added to the problem but from the looks of it it wasn't the sole cause.

Of course teeth that aren't healthy and strong to begin with will be more prone to chipping or breaking and the use of hard chews should be restricted. 

But, I believe that if you monitor how your dog approaches stagbars and are confident that they have grasped the gnawing rather than biting down type chewing then you are unlikely to run into problems. 

...sorry, that was rather a long two cents... haha


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

A statement fom puredog online.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pure-Dog-natural-treats-for-dogs/135463099839961?hc_location=timeline


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Bumble always seem to love Masterpet Crocodile Dog Chew - £ 1.99 - Masterpet - Chemist Direct those jobbies, but only the green one

ETA I have no idea if they're any good, but one lasts him about 6 months and they don't upset his stomach


----------



## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Bumble always seem to love Masterpet Crocodile Dog Chew - £ 1.99 - Masterpet - Chemist Direct those jobbies, but only the green one
> 
> ETA I have no idea if they're any good, but one lasts him about 6 months and they don't upset his stomach


6 months?  Blimey... they last Alfie about 20 minutes :lol:


----------



## Emi89 (Jun 14, 2013)

Coffee said:


> 6 months?  Blimey... they last Alfie about 20 minutes :lol:


HA I was just thinking the same!

Mine just seems to have a mission to find the key to destroying whatever the thing is in the shortest time, whether it's a chew or a toy....


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Coffee said:


> 6 months?  Blimey... they last Alfie about 20 minutes :lol:





Emi89 said:


> HA I was just thinking the same!
> 
> Mine just seems to have a mission to find the key to destroying whatever the thing is in the shortest time, whether it's a chew or a toy....


:lol: he's only tiddly though, the croc itself as is big as his head :001_wub:


----------



## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

ouesi said:


> They don't really "chew" the antlers, it's more of a shaving action with their teeth.


This is exactly what ours do. They've been getting antlers for a couple of years now, always have access to them (unless we're out) and I've never once seen any of them actually bite down or chew properly on one. Looking at the antlers they currently have (which have been out for well over six months) you can easily see that they're just very gradually scraping away at them and not chewing.

I'm still happy for ours to have them as long as they keep gnawing at them rather than trying to bite pieces off.


----------



## SarahBee (Jun 2, 2013)

I really appreciate this being posted! 

The OH's dad buys these for his three dogs and while nothing has happened with their teeth yet, it's not a risk that I think he'd willing to take. I've just sent the article over to him.

My thanks to the OP.


----------



## nickmcmechan (Aug 1, 2009)

A lot of noise and panic over something that is unlikely to happen.

I will still buy them..........and I will still drive my car, get on planes, eat meat in the fridge that's a day beyond its date....I'm so maverick


----------



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Bumble always seem to love Masterpet Crocodile Dog Chew - £ 1.99 - Masterpet - Chemist Direct those jobbies, but only the green one
> 
> ETA I have no idea if they're any good, but one lasts him about 6 months and they don't upset his stomach


My older dog used to love these and I'd stuff a bit of sausage or cheese spread under the crocodile, but they are cereal based so my puppy can't have them. 

I might try him with a cheese bone but they are expensive, he could get one for birthday or xmas but not something I could afford weekly. I'm looking into raw as I reckon it be cheaper to get like bag of frozen chicken wings or legs from supermarket which I could have for my dinner also. (cooked for me!) ...but I'm a bit nervous about starting with whole chicken with bones as was always taught they were dangerous for dogs.


----------



## Guest (Jun 16, 2013)

nickmcmechan said:


> A lot of noise and panic over something that is unlikely to happen.
> 
> I will still buy them..........and I will still drive my car, get on planes, eat meat in the fridge that's a day beyond its date....I'm so maverick


I don't think there's anything wrong with putting the information out there, the truth is some dogs DO get slab fractures from them. So it's good for folks to be aware and pay attention to how their dog chews, know if their dog is the type to swallow big chunks etc...

Nothing wrong with putting info out, just no need to panic over it


----------



## nickmcmechan (Aug 1, 2009)

ouesi said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with putting the information out there, the truth is some dogs DO get slab fractures from them. So it's good for folks to be aware and pay attention to how their dog chews, know if their dog is the type to swallow big chunks etc...
> 
> Nothing wrong with putting info out, just no need to panic over it


Totally agree, however the wave of 'I'm going to stop using them' feels completely disproportionate to the actual level of risk involved. Indeed the article claims that bones in general should not be fed at all.

It's a bit like a physio stating that the level of hamstring injury is high amongst football players and everyone saying 'I'm going to stop my kids playing football'.

Benefit v risk. Everyone should make their own mind up. If we keep jumping on bandwagons we won't pay heed to where the bandwagon is actually going.

In the meantime I'm about to walk my dogs through a forest at the risk of tripping over a fallen branch. Perhaps I should wrap myself in bubble wrap first.


----------



## Emi89 (Jun 14, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with putting the information out there, the truth is some dogs DO get slab fractures from them. So it's good for folks to be aware and pay attention to how their dog chews, know if their dog is the type to swallow big chunks etc...
> 
> Nothing wrong with putting info out, just no need to panic over it


I agree.

It's about knowing your dog. 
Knowing their teeth and how they chew and play with toys.
Observing how they chew this particular type of thing and discontinuing use if they tend to go for a full on bite rather than sticking to gnawing.

I've hit a point with my 1 and a half year old where I trust her habits and have observed hours and hours of stag bar time, and feel happy to leave it out if we're out of the house because even she is careful around it....
if you offer it to her she takes it very carefully with back teeth or gnaws it while you're holding it because she hates the clattering on her teeth.


----------



## staffgirl (May 1, 2013)

I've just got back from the emergency vet. 

I noticed this morning that one of the stag bars my dogs have to chew on during the day was about half the size it was earlier today so I threw it away. I have 2 dogs (golden retrievers) so was worried about who had managed to literally chomp it in half, and what had happened to the crunched up bits. The stag bars we had were all the extra large size.

Just after lunch my older dog Bear had the most horrific amount of blood in a very loose pooh. Blood all over his rear end and in a big pool on the ground. Long story short, straight to the vet and we are working on the assumption he swallowed lots of the stag bar which has been scratching through his poor insides. Of course we don't know for definite that's what has happened but for now it's the most likely explanation as he didn't scavenge anything on our walk this morning. The vet was really shocked by the quantity of blood in the sample I managed to take to her. He's now on anti-biotics along with the usual bland food regime whilst monitoring him to see he's recovering.

I have thrown the other stag bars away.


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> My older dog used to love these and I'd stuff a bit of sausage or cheese spread under the crocodile, but they are cereal based so my puppy can't have them.
> 
> I might try him with a cheese bone but they are expensive, he could get one for birthday or xmas but not something I could afford weekly. I'm looking into raw as I reckon it be cheaper to get like bag of frozen chicken wings or legs from supermarket which I could have for my dinner also. (cooked for me!) ...*but I'm a bit nervous about starting with whole chicken with bones as was always taught they were dangerous for dogs.*


*sigh* this exactly STILL with me 

I KNOW he'd be fine and they're much safer than most manufactured products but I still can't get through the barrier of what's been ground into my head over the years 

Now he's raw fed, with ground bone mixed and and sometimes extra rabbit mince and in himself he's very picky, but the few times I've dared to give him a raw bone he's just turned his nose up...but I think he misses out a bit because maybe if I was more confident he'd find he loves them


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

My [email protected] had no decent stag bars in yesterday so I got a bacon Nylabone for Rupert, cost £8. Been a HUGE hit he loves it and will pick it up and bring it with him if he goes to follow me around the house then sets it down with him. With a stag bar if I left it down all day he would probably get it quite a way down, but the way he is with the Nylabone I wouldn't worry about leaving it down 24/7.

Its pretty much decided for me that I doubt I'll get stag bars anymore. They are expensive considering how long they last Roo. Plus on a pre molar on each side of his mouth he has ever so slight wearing. Milo doesn't, and the only thing Milo doesn't have the Rupert does is stag bars (I don't think playing tug would do it and that's the only mouthy game Milo doesn't do that Rupert does).

Roo has been on raw for two years and its only now I've noticed the wearing and it is only slight. He's only had stag bars the last 10 months or so though (he's had about three or four maybe).


----------



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I don't know why ..but I thought Nylabones has plastic or rubber in them and weren't safe to swallow completely? 

JJ had puppy starter pack he only ate one that ha a biscuit like crumbly texture, the other two are still uneaten in the toy box and he still shows no interest, one a small hard white plastic texture and the other a more rubbery brown. not sure what flavour they are meant to be.

Looking at ingredients the first one is often 'wheat starch' though they claim to be gluten free???


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> I don't know why ..but I thought Nylabones has plastic or rubber in them and weren't safe to swallow completely?
> 
> JJ had puppy starter pack he only ate one that ha a biscuit like crumbly texture, the other two are still uneaten in the toy box and he still shows no interest, one a small hard white plastic texture and the other a more rubbery brown. not sure what flavour they are meant to be.
> 
> Looking at ingredients the first one is often 'wheat starch' though they claim to be gluten free???


The one I've got isn't edible, but it's still a chew


----------

