# Cocker Spaniel bit child in park



## darren1 (Jul 30, 2008)

Hi
I'm devasted to even write this - my 2 yr old male cocker bit a child in the field yesterday. He was off-lead as he normally is. Normally in the park all the kids shout him over and he goes over and gets a clap and then comes straight back to me. Sometimes in the past he has run up to people and barked at them then just gone on about his business, or he will run straight back to me.

Yesterday he was off lead and there was a boy running away from us further up in the field. The dog ran after him and I shouted him back, and the child did a backward step and the dog jumped up at him. I didn't see the dog bite him all I saw was him jumping up and I thought that was all he had done. I was very angry that he had even jumped up never mind bitten someone.

The child and his father came round a short time after and sure enough the dog had bitten him on the bottom, not a really bad bite but a bite all the same which is unacceptable.

I'm gutted about this as I have two young kids myself and as a result have a steady stream of kids coming and going from my house and I feel that all confidence in the dog has gone.

Has anyone experienced this before and if so what did you do? I can hardly even look at the dog today, who is being his usual affectionate self and I can hardly bring myself to clap him - not because of fear just plain anger at him. I know people will blame me and I fully accept the blame, although I just don't know what I could have done differently which is what's making me unsure what to do. He is a well socialised dog with people and dogs.

Any advice or shared experience more than welcome.

Thank you 
Darren


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

hi dont up your self to much.
in the pass cockers were used for herding cattle and used to nip the cattle to get them to move and they get excited and they still have this in them, 
ok in our society now we dont use them much as herding and is a unexceptable behavour,
so when theres lots of kids running round and getting excited your dog will also get excited and thats when his more likely to nip, and running up to people and barking is part of this behavour as well. so best to stop him doing that as well.
if you can stop him getting excited in the first place and keep him near you your less likely to find this happens again.
i would put him on a long line so he can run and play ball, but then if he looks like his going to run off to people and bark or nip you can stop him by standing on the line and distract him with say a toy or treats.


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## TiffanyLouise (Jul 23, 2008)

Wow Carol what a great person you are!
I was really struggling for something to say to Darren to put his mind at ease and along you come talking sense
It's too early in the morning for me lol
Anyway Darren as Carol says dont beat yourself up, a nip on the bum although unacceptable is not a vicious mauling
Just treat it as a warning sign and as Carol says keep him on a long lead


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2008)

agreed keeping him on a lead in public places is a good idea,im having problems with my 2 year old cocker dog,he is showing some agression towards other dogs,so i only let him off a lead when i know im alone.You have to be careful now people will sue for nothing


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## darren1 (Jul 30, 2008)

Hi 
Thanks for your replies guys.

I've been to the vet this morning, and I have an appointment on Friday for him to get neutered. Not saying this will solve the problem, but it's perhaps a step in the right direction.

The Vet said it sounded more like adverturous play - won't be saying this to the father of the child right enough.

My main concern now is not when I'm out and about with him as from now on he will be on the lead whenever there are children around. My concerns are for my own children and their friends that come to my house. I feel that the dog has totally spoiled the trust I had in him and his life is going to me drastically affected as I will now have to either watch him like a hawk which is not possible all the time when the kids are playing or lock him in a room in the house when my kids friends are in.

There is probably only a very small chance that he will do something again, but it's a chance all the same, and I would be gutted if he did it again to anyone.

Darren


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2008)

darren1 said:


> Hi
> Thanks for your replies guys.
> 
> I've been to the vet this morning, and I have an appointment on Friday for him to get neutered. Not saying this will solve the problem, but it's perhaps a step in the right direction.
> ...


I understand what your goin through hun but u cant treat this like a mauling it wasn't, your dog clearly slipped a bit when he did this as he had never done it before. If you treat him differently now it will have a bad effect on him, if you are that worried that he may do it to your children or their friends i suggest u look at rehoming him, I know it sounds harsh but if your constantly worrying over this your dog WILL pick up on it and it WILL stress him out which may again cause him to behave differently.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2008)

I think this collar should be a last resort hun, try the long line, rewarding him when he comes back or plays nicely with your kids and others etc. If you get head first with this collar and your dog reacts badly to it then you have a even bigger problem


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Any kind of spray collar would be an absolute no no for me. What you have described the dog did, while totally unacceptable, sounds like it has been blown ouit of all proportion to me. Your dog was chasing a child, got over-excited and nipped him playfully. He is well socialised with children and by the sounds of it, likes them. By using an aversive collar you run the serious risk of making the dog dislike children or anything he happens to be focused on at the time of the spray. 

I do find the fact that you have sai dhe has run up to people and barked atthem befor eunacceptable. Some peopel might find this upsetting. Would you find a rottie or a dobe running up to someone and barking at them acceptable, or would you make sur eit never happened again? 

The dog needs to be kept on the lead or a longline until such a time as he has a 200% reliable recall. So that you would bet your years wages that he'd come back every single time the instant you request him to. He may even be best kept on the lead after that when people/dogs are about, just in case. 

castration will not likel;y make a difference and can in some cases make problems worse, especially when problems are fear based. (although thsi doesn't sound like the case here!) You need to look at both sides.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

I would not use one of those collars i think they are cruel would never put one on my dogs.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2008)

But surely it should still be a last resort? especially if the behaviour can be trained out of him with a bit of time and effort?


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

There is a difference between someone experienced using a spray collar and the average dog owner using one. Used incorrectly they can easily make the dog develop a serious aversion to an object or person, which then leads to fear aggression, which then leads to a real problem. 

I do not believe in using aversives for training and have yet to experience a problem where positive re-inforcement or other positive, non aversive methods will not work. I certainly do not think that an aversive method should be the first course of action, and certainly not one that should be suggeste dot someone when you have no idea of their previous experience. 

Just to be clear, I have no doubt they 'work' used correctly, but they can also lead to very quiet, shut down dogs, even when used by experienced trainers. I also woudl prefer my dog to do something because there was apositive outcome to doing what I had asked, not because it was worried or didn't like the 'consequences' if it didn't do so.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Have you thought of getting him a muzzle? maybe for when there are other children around.. We had to do this with the dobie for a bit.. she thought when my son was in the garden it was fun to nip his bum.. well we had to put a stop to it so we muzzled her when they were out together.. she now doesn't even think to grab him.. She would much rather knock him to the floor now..LOL 

It sounds like he was playing.. And dogs I think quite often would rather play with young kids then the adults that own them.. Kids are some much more fun!

Good luck Darren.


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## Lambchop (Jul 27, 2008)

hiya
The advice about keeping on leads, etc when out in public is great. I honestly think your dog's instincts kicked in when he saw something running away and took chase and chasing is obviously very fun and rewarding for a dog, then he got carried away but keeping on a long line will prevent that from happening again.
Regarding visiting children, I would explain to the children how to behave when the dog is around. If they dont get too excited then the dog wont either. You could teach the children how to play with the dog safely and what to do if he jumps up, etc. Make a fuss of the dog and give him treats when he is being calm around the children too. But most importantly, dont worry. He will pick up on your anxiousness and be anxious himself.
lambchop


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## 6660carrie (Jul 28, 2008)

Gotta say I agree with Jackson on this one, I don't think a collar will help matters.

My Dobey has a tendency to run over and say hello to people and dogs ,which some peole take offense to ,so I quite often leave a long lead on him which I just stand on if he shows too much interest.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

I also am going to agree that the collar is a really bad idea. This is your dog thinking

yey kids, ill go and play
*squirt*
nasty little kids squirted water at me. Ill go and sulk

kids!! ill go say hi
*squirt*
nasty kids squirted me with water again.

Kids, dont like kids, they squirt me. either a) stay away b) kill the kid before it gets me.

Since you have kids in your house I really woundt advice this. you dont want a dog thats afraid of children. Not all dos think being squirted is a punishment and may think of it as a reward instead. in which case youll just reinforce the chasing kids behaviour. Best bet is to keep it on a long line while your out until its got a good recall that you can trust 100% of the time. 

As for kids in the house i shouldnt worry too much as it probably was just over excited. If you have never had him overexcited over kids in the house before then I cant seeing it being a problem. I think we are looking at a pretty much isolated incident because the child it chased was running and the dog got carried away. 

if your really worried in the house I would consider putting it into a different room until he is calm enough to greet the kids and make sure the kids know how to handle the dog and make sure they want to meet the dog. Although to be fair I really dont think you need to.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

dogpositivetraining said:


> All good and well, but your dog is not actually learning anything from this. Therefore he will continue to do this behaviour.


But in the same vein, if the dog stops a behaviour because a spray collar it is used, it is not learning the behaviour isn't desirable to humans, or learning an alternative beahviour (e.g. recall) it is learning that if it does whatever, it gets a nasty spray in it's face.

If the spray collar wasn't an aversive, it wouldn't work. Suprise or not, the dog doesn't like it, that makes it an aversive. It is negative re-inforcement, the dog stops a behaviour in order to avoid the spray.

As I said before, used at the wrong time it could make matter much worse. cassie01 has given a good example.


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