# possible faulty batch of panacur



## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

continuing from a thread of poorly kittens after using panacur.
possible faulty batch of panacur numbers:
E049A02 expiry 11/2014
E512A02 expiry 06/2013
E4047A03 expiry 2014.

symptoms seem to be white liquid stools and rapid weight loss, possible death in kittens, some kittens lose weigh and become very sick.
please add your batch numbers if your kitten has had any reactions to panacur, thankyou.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I just emailed my vet to inform him of the problem and report the possibly faulty batches. I described the kittens' symptoms, especially the fact that kittens from one litter, treated with different batches, lived or died according to the batch they had been treated with.

Maybe everyone should inform their vet, forewarned is forearmed.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

ive also contacted vets in my area, one vet receptionist says 3 kittens from a litter had the same symptoms and died within 3 days, the only treatment this litter had was panacur. this was 4 weeks ago.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I wormed my puppies with the 2nd batch stated and i accidently gave them 3 times the dose,luckily they were fine but it may not be the same for kittens.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

ok just phoned my vets he said hes not heard of no problems as they dont use a lot of panacur they use another brand mainly.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Did your vet say what the other brand was?


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Yes, I'd like to know, too.
But it does seem the problem only arises with very young kittens.
Am I wrong, or were they all under 8 weeks?

Could it be that for some reason, panacur is, or has become, less suitable for very young kittens? Maybe there has been a change in ingredients or concentration of one of the ingredients?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

my kittens was under 8 weeks.
the vet has suggested to me to keep the queen upto date with her wormers every 3 months using drontol, then once the kittens are 9 weeks old to also worm them with drontol.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rather you than me with Drontals. Yes, they are available OTC, but I'd much rather give a cat a Milbemax which is a fraction the size of Drontals.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Surely not worming kittens until they're nine weeks is asking for a larger worm burden and an increased risk of intussesseption. Why nine weeks? I think Drontal can be used from 6 weeks old.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Did your vet say what the other brand was?


He didnt but did say tablet form and i believe milbremax is what they use as i bought it from them before.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

the kittens i wormed were 6 weeks old


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> Surely not worming kittens until they're nine weeks is asking for a larger worm burden and an increased risk of intussesseption. Why nine weeks? I think Drontal can be used from 6 weeks old.


If you have a breeding queen who is regularly wormed, who doesn't go out and who doesn't have fleas then I suspect it's fine to wait until 9 weeks. If you have a rescue of unknown status then really i think one has to bit the bullet and worm early with Panacur, and of course worm the mother. In other words I think there is more than one situation to consider.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If you have a breeding queen who is regularly wormed, who doesn't go out and who doesn't have fleas then I suspect it's fine to wait until 9 weeks.


The flea thing has nothing to do with it because fleas are the intermediate host for tapeworm and tapeworm isn't the issue with kittens. Roundworm is and I'm stunned at a vet suggesting worming the mum rather than the kittens. It suggests the vet doesn't understand the life cycle of the roundworm - scary.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

my vet doesnt sell milbemax, only drontol, panacur or profender spot on which can be given to kittens weighing 1.5kgs.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

havoc said:


> The flea thing has nothing to do with it because fleas are the intermediate host for tapeworm and tapeworm isn't the issue with kittens. Roundworm is and I'm stunned at a vet suggesting worming the mum rather than the kittens. It suggests the vet doesn't understand the life cycle of the roundworm - scary.


Havoc...if im reading your post right, you are saying kittens with fleas cant get infected with tapeworm.
if you are not saying this then i apologise for what im about to post but when i worked as a foster home we had a 8 week old kitten full of tapeworm. the kitten needed an operation as it caused a huge blockage in the intestines.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Young kitten * can * have tapeworms, i had a rescued kitten which was full of tapeworms, a trip to the vet and half a drontal later she was fine


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Havoc...if im reading your post right, you are saying kittens with fleas cant get infected with tapeworm.


It isn't that kittens can't have tapeworm, it's that roundworms are far more common and even if a mother cat doesn't have roundworms she can still have the encysted larvae in her tissues. No amount of worming her will guarantee she won't pass these onto her kittens because there is no way of treating the cat to eliminate them and they can remain in her system for years. The only treatments we have for roundworm is for the adult stage which is irrelevant in the transmission through mum's milk to kittens. This is why kittens have to be wormed even if the mum has always been an indoor cat and wormed regularly.

Treat the mum for tapeworm and she won't have it. Completely different lifecycle and not therefore the same problem for kittens.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

or put far better than I can

_T. cati: Roundworms of the species T. cati have a more complicated life cycle and a very effective way of making sure its species will be passed from generation to generation. Let us take a look.

An animal can acquire a T. cati infection several ways: ingestion of eggs, ingestion of a transport host, or by larvae through the milk. First, let us follow the ingestion of infective eggs.

Ingestion of Eggs: After a cat eats the eggs, they hatch and the larvae enter the wall of the small intestine. The larvae migrate through the circulatory system and either go to the respiratory system or other organs or tissues in the body. If they enter body tissues, they can encyst (become walled off and inactive). They can remain encysted in tissues for months or years. This is the migration most commonly seen in older cats. In very young kittens, larvae move from the circulation to the respiratory system, are coughed up and swallowed. The larvae mature into adults. The adult worms lay eggs which pass out of the animal in the feces. The eggs need to remain in the environment 10-14 days before they become infective.

Ingestion of transport or intermediate host: If a cat ingests a transport host, such as an earthworm or beetle which has encysted larvae, the larvae are released from the transfer host when it is eaten and digested, and the larvae mature in the intestine. The same is true if a cat eats an intermediate host such as a mouse.

Mother cat nursing her kittensLarvae through the milk: During the perinatal period dormant larvae in the queen can start to migrate to the mammary glands and into the milk. The kittens can become infected through the milk while nursing. The swallowed larvae mature in the kitten's intestine. If the larvae are passed out in the kitten's feces before they can mature, they can infect the mother when she licks her kitten.

About 4 weeks after a cat eats an infective egg, the adult worm has matured in the animal's intestine and the next generation of eggs is passed. _

Taken from Cat Roundworms (Ascarids, Toxascaris leonina, Toxocara cati)


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

havoc said:


> It isn't that kittens can't have tapeworm, it's that roundworms are far more common and even if a mother cat doesn't have roundworms she can still have the encysted larvae in her tissues. No amount of worming her will guarantee she won't pass these onto her kittens because there is no way of treating the cat to eliminate them and they can remain in her system for years. The only treatments we have for roundworm is for the adult stage which is irrelevant in the transmission through mum's milk to kittens. This is why kittens have to be wormed even if the mum has always been an indoor cat and wormed regularly.
> 
> Treat the mum for tapeworm and she won't have it. Completely different lifecycle and not therefore the same problem for kittens.


Thankyou Havoc, i understand more now. i dont want kittens having any type of worms so thankyou so much for posting this.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I understand it's going to be a difficult call, especially for someone who has had a problem with a product which is considered one of the safest on the market. Those who now don't want to use Panacur face finding an alternative. Worming the mum and not worming the kittens isn't it


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

havoc said:


> I understand it's going to be a difficult call, especially for someone who has had a problem with a product which is considered one of the safest on the market. Those who now don't want to use Panacur face finding an alternative. Worming the mum and not worming the kittens isn't it


im going to worm my kittens at 6 weeks using drontol.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

Fascinating information, thank you. So am I right in concluding if the wormer works only on mature worms then on kittens from a regularly wormed queen would not benefit from the 2 week wormer? But that worming at 5 weeks would be a sensible precaution? 

For anyone panicking about Panacur I have just wormed 6 seven week old kittens with a potentially affected batch with no problems. (i read the batch numbers after starting the course). However, that doesn't mean there has not been contamination I suppose.

Has anyone had a problem with a litter wormed with Panacur other than recently? I have been using fenbendazole about 20 years on horses and never heard of problem and my Vet advised it has very generous tolerances. It is just worrying that all the issues seem to be within the last month.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

i think its more that some kittens will have a sensitive reaction rather than a faulty batch.
ive wormed 13 kittens and only 2 had a problem, one kitten is doing fine now and the other is slowly getting better.
the vets cant find any other cause as this kitten has been blood tested, stools checked and a good checking for everything but all tests have come back clear so they are at a loss as to whats happened, put on kitten notes possible sensitive to an ingredient within panacur.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

So pleased he's still fighting, fingers crossed he keeps improving. 

Awful situation to go through though. If all the Vet's have reported the issue some investigation ought to be taking place at Vet drugs HQ (though I think it has a different name) hopefully.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> So am I right in concluding if the wormer works only on mature worms then on kittens from a regularly wormed queen would not benefit from the 2 week wormer? But that worming at 5 weeks would be a sensible precaution?


Sort of and I can see how you're thinking. Wormers only work on the adult _stage_ of the lifecycle so the worms don't have to be four weeks old and fully mature to be zapped. A regularly wormed, indoor cat is _less_ likely to have been regularly reinfested herself so will have _fewer_ encysted larvae in her system than a semi-feral stray. Unfortunately we can't ever say none. Just one will set the whole thing off and the mum will get them back from this litter and have them safely encysted ready for the next.

I would worm a rescue's kittens from two weeks old and every two weeks to ensure I kept the worm burden to a minimum. With my own cats I like to wait until the kittens are a little older and then worm roughly every three weeks. If we're looking at a four week cycle to reproductive maturity then it makes sense to me to have a treatment interval within that period to break the cycle.

One of the least known dangers for kittens with worms is that of intussusception, a condition where the intestine telescopes in on itself. It is life threatening and requires expensive surgery. The most common cause in kittens is when a kitten hasn't been wormed regularly and then is treated. I've known of at least one pedigree kitten in the last few months which had to have surgery because the 'breeder' didn't worm the kittens regularly and then wormed them with a one off treatment just before they went to new homes. This then leads us to what I consider one of the benefits of Panacur, the three day half dose protocol. It's a more gentle approach over a longer period which doesn't cause such a sudden change if there is a worm burden so less chance of intussusception.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

Thank you for the detailed answer. That fits in with the protocol I was following but I didn't know why I was following it. It's good to have all the info before going off piste, so to speak, then I can do my best to avoid all the pitfalls. 

Think I'll stick to my previous program but miss the wormer at two weeks old as I know my queens are indoor and regularly wormed. I will stay with Panacur but be very careful with the dose I think.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Nothing is 100% risk free and we breeders are always weighing up risks and benefits. On another thread I explained why I don't vaccinate kittens with vet mixed leukaemia vaccine. I had a very bad experience and have decided the risks of the vaccine mix outweigh the risks of my kittens getting feline leukaemia. This situation is no different in that a breeder (more than one actually) had bad experiences with Panacur. The difference is that there are more things to consider here because worming is (strangely) a more complicated issue. I will continue to use Panacur because I think the benefits outweigh the risks of going to any other product or protocol. I'll also point out once more that I know the shock when you do get a kitten with a bad reaction to anything. As long as breeders understand the rare but possible consequences of not worming kittens regularly and then using a strong dose of a one off product their own risk/benefit analyses are completely valid.


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

I am sorry to resurrect an old thread, but do we have any updates on this? I just got 3 5g Panacur syringe from the 11-2014 expiration date batch! I was going to use it them on my Ragdoll.

havoc, what one-off treatment did the breeder use? How does this cause the intussusception? I thought one of intussusception causes is the kittens being overwhelmed by worms?


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## princessa rags (Apr 30, 2010)

Intussecption is caused by loose stools the bowl contracts the wrong way i lost a kitten earlier in the year to this who got a bit of a sickness bug it is really common in kittens and puppies but i had a queen that had it 4 weeks after giving birth and had to have 3 inches of bowl removed


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## princessa rags (Apr 30, 2010)

And all my cats and kittens are wormed regular my vet told me just having a sickness and the poops


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

As far as im aware the makers of panacur have stated there must have been an underlying illness or a weak kitten as panacur would have to be overdosed by 100 times and is perfectly safe for kittens.
my kitten who wasnt very well is now in his new home and after hearing about his problem the new owners vet has said they wont use panacur on him, maybe he is sensitive to the panacur...we will never know.
i wont be using panacur again but using drontol and ensuring my queens are kept up with their worming aswell, i have yet to find another alternative to give kittens at 2 weeeks old.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> havoc, what one-off treatment did the breeder use? How does this cause the intussusception? I thought one of intussusception causes is the kittens being overwhelmed by worms?


I don't know what was used and it isn't relevant. It's *allowing a large worm burden to build up and then treating it* (with anything harsh) that's the problem. Think in terms of a large 'ball' of worms in the intestine suddenly being expelled. The intestine itself can also collapse and telescope on itself. Regular worming means there's never that large amount of worms at one time.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I have used panacur on all my kittens,and never had a problem, using now on my latest litter,and they are fine,but i dont worm mine until they are on solid food,usually at about 4-5 weeks old,as i think 2 weeks is far too young,i think when on just mums milk they dont have enough immunity to have chemicals put into their little bodies


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

I will read through this thread from start to finish in the morning but i use panacur and had 2 very poorly kittens with the exact same symptoms.


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## dancemagicdance (Sep 27, 2012)

I forgot about this thread  I've just bought some panacur for the kittens' next worming, they'll be 10 weeks so hopefully it'll be ok but I'll be carefully checking the batch numbers.

ETA - If people are looking for something to give kittens that isn't panacur, my vet gave me drontal suspension for puppies. I have been told on here that it's not licensed for kittens but it will work and I used it from 4 weeks(before I knew it wasn't licensed) with no problems. I saw a different vet at the same practice who was surprised that I had been given the drontal but said it will work fine, and the first vet said it is gentle so it wouldn't matter if I gave too much by accident. It goes on weight(1ml per kg) so you just give less than you would to a puppy. Not a perfect solution and I don't know if I'd have used it if I'd known it wasn't licensed for kittens but maybe worth considering if you don't want to use panacur.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

it might be worth comparing the active ingredients between Panacur and Drontal. i use Panacur licenced for horses on my dogs as directed by my vet.


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