# Failed Recall Chasing a Swan



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I am so angry with Roxy, probably I shouldn't be but I am. For over a year now we have been practising recalls, I have learnt various techniques; whistle stops, squeaky balls, redirecting chases, etc but really it's been a waste of time .... or that's how I feel.

We went on our walk today along the river, where we go most days as it's lovely & quiet, not too many animals for her to chase & she gets to swim which she LOVES. And for the unmpteenth time, we walked past the swans who are always there, there are usually about 3 pairs. Most days Roxy doesn't even bat an eyelid at them so I have no worries about her being offlead around them. She's even good with moorhens, coots & ducks now. We['ve had a couple of time when she's gone running over but I've successfully recalled her, although now I think it was pure luck

But today .... no. She decided that she would jump in & chase one of the swans. No amount of calling her, squeaking her ball or anything would get her to leave the swan alone. I was so worried she was going to end up hurting it that I almost considered jumping in.

For about 20mins she swam around after it & only really gave up when she was tired. I know I shouldn't have but I shouted at her & put her back on her lead then took her home.

It just made me realise that all the training I have been doing has basically been a waste of time as she only does what she's told when she wants to, today when she really needed to come back to me it was as if I didn't exist. I honestly don't know what else to do.

I have read numerous books on recall, we train at home, when out, with distraction including animals & birds, when she hasn't been fed so is very hungry, gotten her obsessed with her squeaky balls, never over used the whistle, never scolded her (until today) when she's run off, she' not chased that many things so hasn't gotten in to a habit, I always recognise most of the signs if she's losing distraction or has gone in to 'hunting' mode so put her back on her lead but today she just dived in after this poorbird who wasn;t doing anything unusual to attract her attention.

I'm so fed up, we have so many animals where I live that she can't be doing this; for her own safety as much as theirs. I don't want her to be leashed all the time as she loves running around & loves swimming but am at a loss of what else to try. I feel like a complete failure tbh. I'm obviously doing something wrong as I have been trying to addres this for over a year & yet today was as if I had done b*gger all


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## spaniel04 (Nov 27, 2011)

I know these things are frustrating but i think you need to put it behind you and learn from it. 
I was once in a very similar situation with my young spaniel chasing a duck on a pond during training. The way I saw it I only had two options, I could either just stand there and watch after the first failed recall or i could take off my boots and go after her. And that's exactly what i did. I didn't want the dog to think that being in the water meant being out of my reach and i also didn't want to teach her to ignore my recall and go on having a very merry time. 
It worked, she never did it again. :biggrin:


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I really was that close to jumping in & bloody dragging her out but then realised that the river is very deep, with very steep banks so was sensible about it!

It just annoys me & makes me sad that yet again we seem to have regressed. If I knew what I was doing wrong then I would correct it. We have put in so much work yet achieved so little, some people I meet don't do half the training I do yet their dogs are much more responsive, I just wish I could get this right as I do realise the importance of a solid recall.

It also makes me feel bad for Roxy that now she will have to be leashed again as I can't trust her & realise that her recall is still not good enough. She loves running around & we play alot of games when she's offlead which I may now have to reconsider.

Maybe I'm over reacting but I think this has just proved to me that in the past it's been luck with her recall rather than training despite the effort I have put in


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sometimes they just have one of those days. I had a dog with perfect recall, never disobeyed it, came back instantly no matter what he was doing. The sort of dog people would say had 100% recall really. Well one day he took off after a cat and completely ignored me until he'd caught the cat. He never did it before and never did it again and I have no idea what got into him that day. He didn't hurt the cat by the way, just wanted to play with it.

I know what you mean about being frustrated though. I put in countless hours of work with Rupert and never managed to get him trustworthy off leash. Oh he was brilliant in an enclosed space with nothing to hunt but out in the open...forget it! He was off hunting and to hell with me. It used to make me really angry that other people could get great recall with practically no work while I couldn't get anything reliable despite a ton of work.

Just a thought, I find a solid stop far easier to teach than a solid recall for some reason. I think because it's just one thing, stop, rather than stop what you're doing, turn around and come to me. I got around my collies complete lack of recall that way and had much more success with it with Rupert although he still couldn't be trusted fully. Spen is more reliable at stopping than at recalling too despite me putting more work in on recall.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I wrote the post about 3pm but due to various issues with the site (hence the muitiple threads I appear to have started!) but didn't get to add it until the evening.

When we returned home I waited until Roxy was less hyper (& I less angry!) & went back to where the swans were (Roxy on a long line - no chances!). I think she knew I was p*ssed off as she was unbelievable, I have never seen her so quick to sit to the whistle, she walked to heel, attentive, etc. 

We went & sat near where the swans were for a bit. Every time she looked at me she got a treat & wasn't that fixated on them at all - probably bored of them after chasing one for 20mins 

When we got home I let the chickens out & told Roxy to sit. She was brilliant, no reaction despite 5 chickens running round here. We practised recalls past the chickens, sit/downs at distances whist the chickens ran around. I even chased the poor chickens round the garden a bit (I must look mental at times!) to see if I could provoke a reaction from her but no. She wanted to chase after them but didn't as she had been told to wait .... so she did.

If only I do this away from home  We have a 1-2-1 with our trainer tolday so i will see what she has to say, maybe I'm being too hard on Roxy but it just frustrates me that she will blatantly ignore me at times. 

When she was swimming after the swan she wasn't in the same sort of chase mode you hear when dogs go deaf to commands & don;t notice their surrounding as they are so fixated. She knew I was calling her as she kept looking at me occassionally but just caried on. I did keep calling her (maybe I shouldn't) because every time she lost just a few seconds of concentration the swan was able to increase tthe distance between him & her. 

Bl**dy dogs!


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## Mo1959 (Mar 31, 2012)

Roxy actually sounds brilliant compared to my Millie! I have had a couple of pheasants and pigeons caught and brought back to me over the last year. Once she is in chase mode nothing stops her. Since I am in the countryside I wasn't too bothered initially but she is really pushing her luck lately and staying out of sight for too long and it worries me a) that she might get hurt and I don't know exactly where she is and b) that she goes too far and strays into ground where there is livestock. Although I'm 99% sure she would't chase sheep, the farmer wouldn't take that view!

I have therefore started, probably far too late, on doing some recall with her. She isn't remotely interested in toys so has to be food treats with her. So far she is coming shooting back to me from quite close so just going to keep doing it on quieter walks where I know she will listen and build up from there. Not sure she will ever be really good though.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm really sorry and I know how hard you've worked with Roxy.

IMHO no dog has a 100% recall and we all occasionally have one of those days.

You're not a failure and you've made enormous progress.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I'd take her to the same place and practice a stop whistle around the swans. That way you can stop her then recall her. No point in trying to recall a dog that isn't going to do it. But if you get a good stop whistle then you can. 

It's not that you've failed - you just have a bit more work to do. I've worked on recall loads with Louie and he still tests me.. don't worry about it hun.. just a set back.. get back on the horse and work a little harder and then you'll get there.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

My girls are pretty good but 2 of them ignored me a couple of weeks ago and chased a cat
I think even the best will have a 'blip' occasionally- as long as its rare I can live with it
Good luck!!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

We will go out again later back to the same place again & see how things go. I feel better today, I felt so disapoointed yesterday - mainly becuase I know how much Roxy likes being off lead & I don't want to deny her this but can't let her just do her own thing.

I have been luicky so far in the she has never really b*ggered off, she's rarely out of sight but I think that is only me constantly looking out for things & keeping note of her body language. I don't doubt that she would be off given half the chance at times

Yestyerday wa annoying as only at the weekend she was in the same part of the river swimming after her ball & didn't even notice the pair of swan that swam over to her. They aren't nesting yet so were just being more inquisitive rather than trying to warn her off. She didn't bother with them at all.

I think it just brings back my worries that one day she will disappear off whilst chasing something & I will lose her, I used to have nightmares about it a while ago


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## grandad (Apr 14, 2011)

Yep, agree with what most peeps have said. Move on. 

These things happen, they are animals with animal instincts. I've seen the best trained gundogs have "one" of those days. 

When they are in chase mode, all the senses shut down "especially" the hearing. YOU now know that she could bolt so extra precautions on your part around the wildlife. Call her to heel and recall her constantly to ensure she is listening. If her body language changes at any stage, get her back to you quickly and put the lead on, get past the distraction, praise and then release her. (which is a reward as well)


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

grandad said:


> Yep, agree with what most peeps have said. Move on.
> 
> These things happen, they are animals with animal instincts. I've seen the best trained gundogs have "one" of those days.
> 
> When they are in chase mode, all the senses shut down "especially" the hearing. YOU now know that she could bolt so extra precautions on your part around the wildlife. Call her to heel and recall her constantly to ensure she is listening. If her body language changes at any stage, get her back to you quickly and put the lead on, get past the distraction, praise and then release her. (which is a reward as well)


Today will be longline but with offlead games as her rewards. She's never overly fussed with food rewards when out (despite missing meals) but does love her squeaky balls which have proved inavaluable lately.

I will get her to concentrate more on me & do more games with stopping her mid chase of her ball, etc

She's ignored a couple of partridges that suprised us a few days ago as she was so eager for her ball but I think it is when she becomes fixated (as yesterday) that my attemtpts to recall fall on deaf ears.

Sometimes though I would just love to have a quiet stroll along the river bank, even when she's on her lead i still have to be vigilant about the grass snakes


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## Halifu (Jan 22, 2012)

We have a pup at the moment that has a really high prey drive,
Anything can set him of at the moment from a leaf blowing around to a fury/feathered animal,thankfully so far he dosent seem to class joggers,cyclist as potential.
I'm sure you've read plenty and put a lot of time and effort in to your dogs training,and it sounds like your doing really well.
Think youve just got to put it behind you and move on
I come across a book a friend lent me called Natural Dog Training by Kevin Beham.
It is about the drive to hunt in canines and has a slightly different approach than others I've read.
There is a particularly interesting section on coming when called.
You can never have enough knowledge that's my motto 
H.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I wonder if Roxy was taking your staying there watching as some sort of tacit approval. One thing that can work is running off shouting, or sneaking away and hiding behind a tree or something, so she's likely to follow you or come looking.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Burrowzig said:


> I wonder if Roxy was taking your staying there watching as some sort of tacit approval. One thing that can work is running off shouting, or sneaking away and hiding behind a tree or something, so she's likely to follow you or come looking.


I completely agree with this & it did cross my mind at the time so I did try & stay out of sight at times. she probably thought my calling & shouting was me cheering her on!

What drew me back though was the worry she would start to catch the swan up & go for him. I'm not sure she would have as she seemed more intent on just following him, there was no barking or snapping (her ball was in her mouth the whole time) but I wasn't sure & if she had of attacked the swan then I would have probably ended up jumping in to stop her .... & risk drowning! I had visions of how I was going to fit a swan in to my car to take it to the vets 

She had been told off ages ago by quite an aggressive swan who she approcahed on the river bank & since then has left them alone (until now). I kept hoping yesterday that the swan would go for her as I knew she would back down but it didn't, I think it was quite young though.

Anyway, I think I had maybe become a bit complacent & not gotten her interested in the ball before passing distractions. We just went out over the fields which are very flat so I can sort of see what's around (usually loads of bloody deer but not today). She was really again despite the high winds, we played lots of games, I changed directions alot, recalled her, played 'leave it' when her fave squeaky balls went flying past her, etc

I just think that it's going to take us a long time before I am able to recall from certain animals (if ever). How I would love a dog that doesn't chase, it must be bliss!!!!!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

No advice just a show of support xx

Chalk it up, learn and move on hun xx

Know what you mean about just wanting a peaceful walk  

I know people who haven't put in a 10th of the work i have with oscar and their dog just ambles along with them on a walk whereas i feel like every walk is a battle of wit and wills between me and him 

Frustrating as hell xx


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> No advice just a show of support xx
> 
> Chalk it up, learn and move on hun xx
> 
> ...


LOL, thanks! There's a man we see who has lovely strolls with his labs & how I envy him. Mind you they may be little s*ds for all I know, someone once commented on how well behaved & trained Roxy was from just watching her for a few mins! 

I go out armed with treats, my whistle, clicker, squeaky balls, I put in all the work but careful not to overdo it & just let ber be a dog, let her sniff around, have a swim, practice training excercises, recalls, etc & yet some days I feel as if I have done nothing with her 

I'll bet we go to our training session though & she'll be great .... mind you I used to moan that she went to training classes & just barked so at least we have made some progress!!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> LOL, thanks! There's a man we see who has lovely strolls with his labs & how I envy him. Mind you they may be little s*ds for all I know, someone once commented on how well behaved & trained Roxy was from just watching her for a few mins!
> 
> I go out armed with treats, my whistle, clicker, squeaky balls, I put in all the work but careful not to overdo it & just let ber be a dog, let her sniff around, have a swim, practice training excercises, recalls, etc & yet some days I feel as if I have done nothing with her
> 
> I'll bet we go to our training session though & she'll be great .... mind you I used to moan that she went to training classes & just barked so at least we have made some progress!!


I just console myself with the fact that any dog i own after Oscar will be a doddle :yesnod:


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> LOL, thanks! There's a man we see who has lovely strolls with his labs & how I envy him. Mind you they may be little s*ds for all I know, someone once commented on how well behaved & trained Roxy was from just watching her for a few mins!
> 
> I go out armed with treats, my whistle, clicker, squeaky balls, I put in all the work but careful not to overdo it & just let ber be a dog, let her sniff around, have a swim, practice training excercises, recalls, etc & yet some days I feel as if I have done nothing with her
> 
> I'll bet we go to our training session though & she'll be great .... mind you I used to moan that she went to training classes & just barked so at least we have made some progress!!


I can't help as I follow all your 'chase' threads with keen interest having a dog who lives to chase myself. I absolutely empathise with the feeling of sheer envy at times when folk don't put any work into their dog who strolls, offlead, ignoring all distractions whilst I am armed with all my weaponry of treats, toys etc and, like you, work every day on recall etc!! I often ask these people what they did to acheive certain things and they just say something like 'she has always just done that / shown no interest in chasing / I have always just left her to it' etc :sosp:.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I can't help as I follow all your 'chase' threads with keen interest having a dog who lives to chase myself. I absolutely empathise with the feeling of sheer envy at times when folk don't put any work into their dog who strolls, offlead, ignoring all distractions whilst I am armed with all my weaponry of treats, toys etc and, like you, work every day on recall etc!! I often ask these people what they did to acheive certain things and they just say something like 'she has always just done that / shown no interest in chasing / I have always just left her to it' etc :sosp:.


See I still remember that you recalled Kilo from joing in with the hunt when he slipped his lead - that was an amazing achievement as Roxy would have been off like a shot  To me that was a incredibly successful recall

I know what you mean though, some dogs are just not interested & I can't help but wonder why. Is it that they justb don;t have the same desire to chase, has something happened/not happened when they were young to influence this? Is it just some people may not train as much but are more effective? Maybe just a combination.

My sisters dog (her first dog) shows no desire to chase anything other than his ball. he can be walked around livestock, rabbits can shoot out in front of him, pheasants that are spooked, & he has a bark but never leaves her side ..... I am so jealous!!!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> See I still remember that you recalled Kilo from joing in with the hunt when he slipped his lead - that was an amazing achievement as Roxy would have been off like a shot  To me that was a incredibly successful recall
> 
> I know what you mean though, some dogs are just not interested & I can't help but wonder why. Is it that they justb don;t have the same desire to chase, has something happened/not happened when they were young to influence this? Is it just some people may not train as much but are more effective? Maybe just a combination.
> 
> My sisters dog (her first dog) shows no desire to chase anything other than his ball. he can be walked around livestock, rabbits can shoot out in front of him, pheasants that are spooked, & he has a bark but never leaves her side ..... I am so jealous!!!


I don't credit myself with having a good recall for the hunt incident - luck I think. I am so, so pleased that he did; but don't think my training was the deciding factor. He has come off a few chases since - but again I think luck played a rather large part.

I walk now and again with a few people who can just let their dogs off and walk along without having to be vigilant at all times. I wouldn't feel quite so frustrated at times if they had trained hard to achieve it.


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## WeimyLady (Jan 3, 2010)

She sounds like an angel compared to my dog.

These things happen.

I just manage my dog now. All the treats, balls and re-direction in the world will never replace the thrill of the hunt/chase/kill for her. 

I have found dog walking much less stressful since I accepted that I'm never going to change her.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

WeimyLady said:


> She sounds like an angel compared to my dog.
> 
> These things happen.
> 
> ...


I agree that chasing a ball is never going to provide the same thrill as chasing an animal but I am (desperately!) hoping that as she becomens more responsive to the sound of whistle this will beome an automatic response ...... well, that's the idea!

I was talking to the trainer yesterday & am hopefully going to build up to taking her to a pen stocked with rabbits/pheasants. I will have to give the gun dog trainer a ring to discuss when this would be an option.

It is still not the same as a bolting rabbit/hare/deer that we may encounter when out but is still reinforcing a command which can't be a bad thing.

I do think that I have to accept Roxy is never going to be a 'steady' dog or one that I can amble along with, I can't ever imagine that happening .... but I can dream!


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## spaniel04 (Nov 27, 2011)

I can't see why that shouldn't be possible with your Roxy.
Think about the role of working gun dogs, all of them with huge prey drives, and yet controlled around game. What makes it even harder for a working dog, like my spaniels, is the fact that quite often they have to go after a runner, injured game that needs to be retrieved as quickly as possible, and needs to be delivered to hand still alive. This could be classed as a chase, controlled by the handler of course, and then in the next moment the dog has to be totally steady again waiting for the next command.
It takes a massive amount of training to get to that stage, but I think you are taking the right steps by seeing a gun dog trainer for help. :001_smile:


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I am so glad my eye sight is good!! Our walk today was going well, started off with walking to heel then ball playing. We were over the fields so I am very aware of deer. Lucky I am because all of a sudden a herd of about 20 started running towards us from the right. Thanks God that Roxy was focussed on retrieving her ball so I went calmly over to her whilst squeaking another ball to keep her fixed on me whilst I put her lead on.

She then noticed the deer, they were quite close by then, as they ran across our path. She sat down & whined, I think she was so over excited she didn't know what to do! She would have been off if she had a chance, I didn't even bother trying to gain her attention as there was no way she would have responded. It would have been like the Fenton Youtube clip all over again 

I just stood whilst she watched them, then when she turned round & looked at me got a massive fuss & her squeaky ball. She wasn't allowed off lead until she calmed down - I couldn't risk her trying to seek them out. 

I just rang the gun dog trainer we used to see so hopefully we can book another session with him soon.


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## grandad (Apr 14, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> I am so glad my eye sight is good!! Our walk today was going well, started off with walking to heel then ball playing. We were over the fields so I am very aware of deer. Lucky I am because all of a sudden a herd of about 20 started running towards us from the right. Thanks God that Roxy was focussed on retrieving her ball so I went calmly over to her whilst squeaking another ball to keep her fixed on me whilst I put her lead on.
> 
> She then noticed the deer, they were quite close by then, as they ran across our path. She sat down & whined, I think she was so over excited she didn't know what to do! She would have been off if she had a chance, I didn't even bother trying to gain her attention as there was no way she would have responded. It would have been like the Fenton Youtube clip all over again
> 
> ...


Perhaps that sighting of the deer was a good time to keep her connected to you. Try this next time. Just gently tug on her fur and see if she responds, a little look, a little turn of the head, a little tail wag, a little movement of her ears, anything to see if she is responding to you. Keep her on lead and gently pull her away from the distraction, letting her observe the distraction, but coaxing her away from it, when she eventually comes to your heel, reward and praise, with anything that you have, voice, treats, squeeky balls, hands on rub, silly cuddles anything!! 
If she isn't responding, it might be worth while dong some distraction training. If you do see the gundog trainer and you are in the rabbit pen, try it out. If she does respond reward enormously.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

grandad said:


> Perhaps that sighting of the deer was a good time to keep her connected to you. Try this next time. Just gently tug on her fur and see if she responds, a little look, a little turn of the head, a little tail wag, a little movement of her ears, anything to see if she is responding to you. Keep her on lead and gently pull her away from the distraction, letting her observe the distraction, but coaxing her away from it, when she eventually comes to your heel, reward and praise, with anything that you have, voice, treats, squeeky balls, hands on rub, silly cuddles anything!!
> If she isn't responding, it might be worth while dong some distraction training. If you do see the gundog trainer and you are in the rabbit pen, try it out. If she does respond reward enormously.


I will do this next time. I did wait today until she turned round to me when she did get a big fuss & her ball but tbh I think I could have let a rocket off next to her & she wouldn't have noticed.

She has only ever seen a deer once before (as I have always seen them first & turned her away from them) so this is very exciting for her, especially so many - they usually are in much smaller groups.

As well as the obedience training (which we are doing still in a class envrionment) I think I do also need to train in an area where she can see animals from a distance, as she will when out. I can walk her through our chicken coop at home & do various exercises with 100% success so in time, I think we could be successful training in a rabbit pen.

Although Roxy was offlead again once the deer had disappeared (although there was a stray one on the walk back!) I was on edge a bit throughout our walk just hoping there weren't any more. Most people would have loved to have seen them today as they are beautiful but they just fill me with dread now


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