# Sick White Cloud Mountain Minnow help please!



## Jodiccea (Nov 16, 2019)

Hi all. 

I’ll try to keep this succinct while giving all info...

i have a (too small) 24l tank with 3 variatus platys, 3 gold white clouds and 3 white clouds, and 1 cherry shrimp. Had fish for a year.
New 60l tank is on its way in next few days.

running a HOB filter with carbon cartridge removed and replaced with sponge as I’m treating (see below)

Using test strips at the mo while I wait for master test kit to arrive so I’m aware they’re not too accurate: 
ph 6.8, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate less than 10, GH less than 14, KH between 3-6.

Just one of the gold white clouds is sick. For past 4 days she struggles to swim so lies on bottom of tank (she does try occasionally and manages to reach the surface but then sinks again and occasionally moves around bottom of tank), isn’t eating. I can’t see any discernable problems of rot or fungus, and ALL the other fish and shrimp are fine. 

I’ve been advised by a local aquarist to treat whole tank with ESHA 2000, but two days of treatment and no improvement.

25% water change 3 days ago and about 15% changed yesterday, Dechlorinated and added small dose of filter boost as I’d changed to the sponge.

please does anyone have any advise on how to save her? The tank is my sons but basically mine as I do all the care and attention, and I’ll be gutted if I haven’t done everything I can.


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## Jodiccea (Nov 16, 2019)




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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Jodiccea said:


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Hi. Welcome to the forums. Sorry it's under the circumstances.

Thanks for the information. Poor little love certainly doesn't look well. 

Is she "gasping" at all?

Did you increase aeration when you started treatment? (That can be as simple as reducing the water level).

The tank is overstocked, so I'd be surprised if water quality is as good as the test strip says it is. I'd recommend a 50% water change tonight (replace the dosage of Esha 2000 that's removed during the water change). Increase aeration.

If she starts to sink as soon as she stops swimming, it sounds as though her swimbladder might have gone. Could you post a video of her swimming?


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## Jodiccea (Nov 16, 2019)

Thanks so much for the swift reply.

I’m very aware it’s too small and hopefully will receive new tank tomorrow. 
just don’t know why it’s just the one, as surely if water quality were so bad all the fish would succumb? I’m still pretty new to this so appreciate all info! 

I’ll lower the water level and change some of it now, I was worried that changing too much water at once would effect the levels too much, but if you think it would be more beneficial I’ll go for it. 

I can’t work out how to post a video I’m afraid, I’m posting from iphone and can’t attach a video, only photos. She’ll swim with her tail end dipped not level, for about 20-30 seconds before sinking and settling again, and she is breathing faster than the others in comparison.

If she is still surviving once new tank arrives and cycles (I plan on seeding it with sponge from another established tank and adding Seachem Stability) should I keep her separate in the old tank as a hospital tank? Or move her with the others and treat whole tank again with Esha? 

Many thanks


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Jodiccea said:


> Thanks so much for the swift reply.
> 
> I'm very aware it's too small and hopefully will receive new tank tomorrow.
> just don't know why it's just the one, as surely if water quality were so bad all the fish would succumb? I'm still pretty new to this so appreciate all info!
> ...


You're welcome. 

Yeah, many people think that if water quality is an issue, all fish would be sick at the same time. That's rarely the case. Most of the time, the fish start showing symptoms one by one.

Leave her in the current tank. The stress of moving her across in her condition will likely prove fatal. Leaving her where she is, but moving the other fish across to the new tank will reduce the bioload (amount of waste produced) to just her, easing the pressure on the filter, and on her system. If you can, add more live plants, so that she has places to hide. The plants will also increase the dissolved oxygen in the water, helping her to breathe a little better.

So long as the water quality and chemistry aren't radically different between source (tap) water and tank, you can't _do_ too many water changes. I'd recommend daily water changes of about 20% until the liquid test kit arrives. She's haemorrhaging into her belly. The cleaner you can keep her water, the better. Persevere with the Esha. That way you're covering 2 bases - haemorrhagic septicemia and toxin poisoning.

Don't worry about her not eating right now - it's the least of her worries. Fish can go 10 days to 2 weeks without food.


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## Jodiccea (Nov 16, 2019)

Also would like to add I do a 30-50% water change every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks as the platys are so messy and the tank is small. I also test every water change usually, and at the moment every day. The water is also warmer than usual as the weather has been so hot so I should have lowered the water level earlier, silly mistake!


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## Jodiccea (Nov 16, 2019)

LinznMilly said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Yeah, many people think that if water quality is an issue, all fish would be sick at the same time. That's rarely the case. Most of the time, the fish start showing symptoms one by one.
> 
> ...


posted before I saw the reply sorry!

Thankyou again. I have a new plant coming for the new tank so I'll leave the original plants in with her as well as an ornament. I also have Bogwood and plant&shrimp substrate coming for new tank so no need to move everything out.

you think she's haemorrhaging? I feel absolutely awful 
test kit arrives Saturday (API) I'll do as you suggest and hope for the best.


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## George Duke-Cohan (Mar 17, 2020)

Jodiccea said:


> posted before I saw the reply sorry!
> 
> Thankyou again. I have a new plant coming for the new tank so I'll leave the original plants in with her as well as an ornament. I also have Bogwood and plant&shrimp substrate coming for new tank so no need to move everything out.
> 
> ...


Hello,

I am so late to this thread! :Banghead
@LinznMilly is the best person (IMO) to help you, with this. I am so sorry that your fish is not doing to good.

On a side note, welcome to PF. You seem to be doing thing correctly, so don't be too hard on yourself. I have had fish die and it is horrible but it is just part of the hobby, as long as we learn from it then it helps to reduce the feelings of sadness.

I am going to keep an eye on this thread but as I have said you are getting the best advice to help you. Good luck and I hope it works out for you.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Jodiccea said:


> posted before I saw the reply sorry!
> 
> Thankyou again. I have a new plant coming for the new tank so I'll leave the original plants in with her as well as an ornament. I also have Bogwood and plant&shrimp substrate coming for new tank so no need to move everything out.
> 
> ...


Listen, it's not your fault she's sick. You're doing all you can for her and her tankmates.

Once you move the other fish across to the other tank, block off 3 sides of her tank - even if that means 3 pieces of black paper. It'll help her feel less exposed. Once you've done that, just let her be.

I'm not going to lie - she's on a knife edge. But I have seen fish come back from a similar situation. As the phrase goes, "where's there's life, there's hope."


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

When changing the water, make sure to temp-match the replacement water. Usually a few degrees here or there won't matter. But in her compromised state, the fewer variables she has to deal with, the better.


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## Jodiccea (Nov 16, 2019)

LinznMilly said:


> When changing the water, make sure to temp-match the replacement water. Usually a few degrees here or there won't matter. But in her compromised state, the fewer variables she has to deal with, the better.





LinznMilly said:


> Listen, it's not your fault she's sick. You're doing all you can for her and her tankmates.
> 
> Once you move the other fish across to the other tank, block off 3 sides of her tank - even if that means 3 pieces of black paper. It'll help her feel less exposed. Once you've done that, just let her be.
> 
> I'm not going to lie - she's on a knife edge. But I have seen fish come back from a similar situation. As the phrase goes, "where's there's life, there's hope."


Thankyou and Thankyou. I've done everything you suggested and will keep her there when I move the others. i know there's sadly a high chance she'll succumb, I just want to do everything I possibly can regardless and I'll hope she can pull through it. She's a feisty one! Many thanks, I'll update regardless of outcome.


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## Jodiccea (Nov 16, 2019)

George Duke-Cohan said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am so late to this thread! :Banghead
> @LinznMilly is the best person (IMO) to help you, with this. I am so sorry that your fish is not doing to good.
> ...


Hi George, thanks for checking in. I've posted once before when I first started keeping fish, it's a wonderful forum to be able to turn to.

@LinznMilly has been fab, I hope I can report back a positive change but if not I'm grateful for all the advice.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Jodiccea said:


> Thankyou and Thankyou. I've done everything you suggested and will keep her there when I move the others. i know there's sadly a high chance she'll succumb, I just want to do everything I possibly can regardless and I'll hope she can pull through it. She's a feisty one*! Many thanks, I'll update regardless of outcome*.


You're most welcome. And please do.


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## George Duke-Cohan (Mar 17, 2020)

Jodiccea said:


> Hi George, thanks for checking in. I've posted once before when I first started keeping fish, it's a wonderful forum to be able to turn to.
> 
> @LinznMilly has been fab, I hope I can report back a positive change but if not I'm grateful for all the advice.


Ok. Well thank you for being so nice. We are always here to help or just to have chats with. @LinznMilly is amazing at helping people out, well that's why she is also a staff member.:Hilarious

Please do keep us updated.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Fingers crossed for the little one


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## Jodiccea (Nov 16, 2019)

Hi all, just wanted to say Thankyou again for all the fab advice. Unfortunately my Dot didn't make it, she suffered all day today and finally gave in. 
I'll continue doing the measures you recommended @LinznMilly until the new tank arrives (was meant to be today but Covid-19 has caused supply problems) and master test kit arrives tomorrow so I'll see how far out my water parameters really are. 
Thankyou again x


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Jodiccea said:


> Hi all, just wanted to say Thankyou again for all the fab advice. Unfortunately my Dot didn't make it, she suffered all day today and finally gave in.
> I'll continue doing the measures you recommended @LinznMilly until the new tank arrives (was meant to be today but Covid-19 has caused supply problems) and master test kit arrives tomorrow so I'll see how far out my water parameters really are.
> Thankyou again x


So sad. It was a long shot, but we had to try.

Sorry for your loss.


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## George Duke-Cohan (Mar 17, 2020)

magpie said:


> Fingers crossed for the little one





Jodiccea said:


> Hi all, just wanted to say Thankyou again for all the fab advice. Unfortunately my Dot didn't make it, she suffered all day today and finally gave in.
> I'll continue doing the measures you recommended @LinznMilly until the new tank arrives (was meant to be today but Covid-19 has caused supply problems) and master test kit arrives tomorrow so I'll see how far out my water parameters really are.
> Thankyou again x


so sorry for your loss. Hope everything goes ok from here on out.:Arghh


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