# Too late to mate?



## Ka7e (May 27, 2011)

Just looking for opinions/advice. A much-awaited mating schedule has been thrown into disarray due to unforeseen circumstances and I am now in a quandry as to whether to proceed with a visit to a stud dog that might be way too late :crying: 

DAY 14 Blood sample taken for progesterone test 10am Fri.

DAY 15 Result by midday Sat - 17.9 ng/l or 57 nmol/L with instruction to get her mated within 24 hours. I couldn't contact stud owner until late afternoon, despite her being pre-warned results were due Sat, so made arrangements to visit early Sunday.

DAY 16 Sunday 10am - slip mating, but dog definitely ejaculated "inside"!

DAY 17 We hoped to return for another go on Tues, as the breeder thought my bitch was still a bit early in her cycle (she doesn't hold much faith in blood tests ) and she IS very experienced.

Unfortunately, I went down with a d and v bug on Monday and wasn't fit to travel today.

The breeder is still advising me to go back for a repeat mating on Wed am - this will be 5 days since the blood sample was taken and DAY 18 of her cycle.

This is a bit of a make or break mating as my girl has had an 11 month gap after her last season and is already 3 years old.

This is a 2nd mating with the same dog, last year she was mated on days 13-15 with a tie on 14 and 15. She was possibly pregnant, but had a terrible bout of tummy trouble and all the pregnancy symptoms subsided at 4 and a half weeks.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Ka7e said:


> Just looking for opinions/advice. A much-awaited mating schedule has been thrown into disarray due to unforeseen circumstances and I am now in a quandry as to whether to proceed with a visit to a stud dog that might be way too late :crying:
> 
> DAY 14 Blood sample taken for progesterone test 10am Fri.
> 
> ...


The following may help From AKC Breeders resources responsible breeding
http://www.akc.org/breeders/resources/guide_to_breeding_your_dog/pdf/guide_to_breeding_your_dog.pdf Covers everything form considering breeding right through to puppies going to their new homes with other suggested reading on each topic/stage.

 Proestrus: The bitch attracts males, has a bloody vaginal discharge, and her vulva is swollen. Proestrus lasts approximately nine days; the bitch, however, will not allow breeding at this time.
 Estrus: During this period, which also lasts approximately nine days, the bitch will accept the male and is fertile. Ovulation usually occurs in the first 48 hours; however, this can vary greatly.
 Diestrus: Lasting 60 to 90 days, diestrus is the period when the reproductive tract is under the control of the hormone progesterone. This occurs whether or not the bitch becomes pregnant. False pregnancy, a condition in which the bitch shows symptoms of being pregnant although she has not conceived, is occasionally seen during diestrus.
 Anestrus: No sexual activity takes place. Anestrus lasts between three and four months.

A Guide To Breeding Your Dog 8 - Mating Natural Breeding. Responsible breeders generally do not breed a bitch at the first heat to avoid imposing the stress of pregnancy and lactation on a young, growing animal. It is also customary to avoid breeding a bitch on consecutive heats to allow sufficient time for recuperation between pregnancies. Most dogs are first bred between the 10th and 14th day after the onset of proestrus. As long as the bitch will accept the male, mating every other day for a total of two or three matings is generally considered sufficient. However, signs of proestrus are not obvious in some bitches. To catch the peak fertile period, a veterinarian may need to perform hormone tests or examine vaginal smears under a microscope. Bitches are usually less inhibited by new environments so they are usually taken to the stud. Breedings involving young males proceed more smoothly if they are paired with experienced bitches. Sometimes human handlers must step in with assistance or guidance during breedings. Some breeds are more apt to need assistance than others because of anatomical considerations. Discussing this process with your own breeder will help you be prepared . During breeding, the male mounts the female from the rear and clasps her midsection with his front legs. Rapid pelvic thrusts follow until penetration and ejaculation take place. After the pelvic thrusts cease, the dog and bitch will not separate for 10 to 30 minutes. Known as a tie, this results from a swollen section of the penis called the bulbus glandis. During the tie, the male may move around until he and the bitch are positioned rear to rear. Do not try to separate the dogs during the tie because it can injure either or both animals. After some time, they will part naturally.

Times can vary but going by the breeders resources it looks like its likely too late, although there are breeders on here and if they pick up the thread can probably advise you better.


----------



## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

What breed is your girl? - touch wood, I've had all positive experiences when using pre-mate testing.

In terms of "when" they are ready in their cycle - they don't tend to read the rule-books - some stand all season, others don't stand at all, some bleed throughout, others don't

The only way you are going to know for sure is to take her to the stud dog and see what happens - if she's gone over - it's unlikely she will accept anything but minimum attention for him - similarly, dogs often also know - will have a quick sniff and if they are anything like mine, walk away in disgust.

As for timing in a season, I've known people get their girl in whelp at the start and end of the season (on different litters obviously)

A friends boy had three matings with a bitch over the space of week and had a good sized healthy litter.

I've had two litters from day 8/9 and day 8/10 matings with the same bitch - her daughter was a week after that (if that had been me in your situation, the stud dog owner would have told me she wasn't ready and we would have missed).

They are all different, IMHO - I would go to the stud and try again, the worst that can happen is you don't get a mating.



Ka7e said:


> This is a bit of a make or break mating as my girl has had an 11 month gap after her last season and is already 3 years old.


What breed is she? Providing she is fit and healthy, is there any specific reason why you can't try again next year? (although it may be an idea to either go and stay in the area where the stud dog is, or select another stud dog - sometimes, pairings just don't gel)


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I had a similar experience with my bitch, she spiked to over 40 within the space of a couple of days and I dashed over to the stud dog only for Tau to remain incredibly unimpressed and we didn't achieve a tie, she just wasn't up for it then or two days later when I returned with her to see if she'd changed her mind. So we came away thinking she'd not taken, and that was it for her as although she's a very fit bitch, she would be too old next time round. She started showing a few signs so I had her scanned, and lo and behold we have pups in there, so you never know, a slip mating could just be enough, and I know others where they only achieved a slip mating with their bitches, with the end result of a good sized litter. I keep telling Tau I only want a small litter, not sure if she's listening though!!


----------



## Ka7e (May 27, 2011)

Congratulations on your expected litter! I know having a tie is desirable rather than 100% necessary and the mating DID take place at the optimum time. They were both very keen and the actual mating took place within minutes of them being reintroduced . The dog may have been distracted by a telephone that started ringing in the house. It just feels things have been conspiring against us this time!


----------



## Ka7e (May 27, 2011)

Swarthy - she is a Shetland Sheepdog and I guess I have always gone by the tenet of breeding the first litter on 3rd or 4th season. It's just that I have never had a dog that has gone so long between seasons - an average of just over 10 months.

The weather here is dire and I think my husband still feels very under par after the bug, so it looks as though we'll be keeping fingers crossed for the slip mating.


----------



## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

if she misses this time ther's no reason why you can't mate her next time ., providing she's fit and healthy . fingers crossed she's taken.


----------

