# Munchkin cats



## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

I've managed to talk my other half into us getting another cat! It will probably not be until next year though. I have looked at lots of different breeds and I'm in love with munchkin cats! I think they are adorable. I've been reading about them all day and have found a few sites that say they can have problems though and that it is unethical to breed them. 
Does anybody here have any first hand experience? 
On the tica site it says they are active, agile and are not at all impaired by the short legs, but other sites say that it's a deformity and that they have problems with their spines, are prone to osteo-arthritis and some breed clubs have refused to accept them for these reasons.  

Obviously I don't want to buy one of it is cruel to be breeding them. Any thoughts appreciated!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

No first hand experience - but I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole. I wouldn't encourage the breeding of a cat with what is effectively a deformity.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Why don't you look at singapuras instead? they are cute and have little legs but all in proportion


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

I also disagree with this partricular breed. While it can be argued all breeding is to taking advantage of gene mutations - the genes that make the munchkin have short legs carry other health problems. 

Only 50% of litters have the short legs when born and 25% of the kittens die. The breeders still have to sell the other 25% but these are just like normal cats?? 

Munckins are not recognised by the GCCF (the main pedigree body for cats in the UK) because of the problems with the breed. 

There are problems with most pedigee breeds (I own two Oriental Shorthairs) but they are far less than with the Munchkin.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

I personally, despair when I see pics of them 

Like Spid says, it's a deformity. I don't see any reason to breed them given that fact :nonod: And I can't see how they can run and leap like proportioned cats. I just don't see how it's possible, especially once they're fully grown. They also look like ticking time bombs, arthritis wise and I'm not surprised there are concerns over spinal problems- their gaits are very un-cat-like. Not for me at all.

If I were you, I'd try and find a breed- a well-established, health-tested breed- which fits all that you want both in looks and temperament.

Good luck in your search!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Lunabuma said:


> I also disagree with this partricular breed. While it can be argued all breeding is to taking advantage of gene mutations - the genes that make the munchkin have short legs carry other health problems.
> 
> Only 50% of litters have the short legs when born and 25% of the kittens die. The breeders still have to sell the other 25% but these are just like normal cats??
> 
> ...


I didn't know this - and it is appalling! How anyone can breed KNOWING that 25% will die is beyond me! It's back yard breeding at it's worst whether or not they are registered.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

I had no idea that some of the kittens die!  What causes the deaths? Now I know that I will not be getting one.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

I've just been having a little browse and it seems as though they are basically moggies but with short legs.

As such, they don't have breed-specific personality traits  My reason for peds would be the predictability (mainly!) over temperament, but you don't even get that! 

I'd personally go to a rescue and adopt a mog, if that was what you were looking for. The mighty moggy- you can't beat them!


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> I had no idea that some of the kittens die!  What causes the deaths? Now I know that I will not be getting one.


I'm wondering if it's spinal problems- perhaps constricted breathing due to spine and rib deformation?


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> I had no idea that some of the kittens die!  What causes the deaths? Now I know that I will not be getting one.


Good 

Now, what about the singapura? 

Someone please get one!


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

spid said:


> I didn't know this - and it is appalling! How anyone can breed KNOWING that 25% will die is beyond me! It's back yard breeding at it's worst whether or not they are registered.


25% die from breeding two standard Munchkins.

50% have short legs and 50% normal where a Munchkin is bread with another breed - very much the business of the back yard breeder.

Just looking and saw they have outcrossed a Munchkin to a Selkirk Rex = Lamkin


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

JordanRose said:


> I'm wondering if it's spinal problems- perhaps constricted breathing due to spine and rib deformation?


Oh I can't even begin to think about their suffering :cryin:


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Lunabuma said:


> 25% die from breeding two standard Munchkins.
> 
> 50% have short legs and 50% normal where a Munchkin is bread with another breed - very much the business of the back yard breeder.
> 
> Just looking and saw they have outcrossed a Munchkin to a Selkirk Rex = Lamkin


I saw them on cats101


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Lunabuma said:


> 25% die from breeding two standard Munchkins.
> 
> 50% have short legs and 50% normal where a Munchkin is bread with another breed - very much the business of the back yard breeder.
> 
> Just looking and saw they have outcrossed a Munchkin to a Selkirk Rex = Lamkin


I've just seen Fold x Munchkin!! :mad2: What a disgrace!

(Funnily enough, the website says 'Scottish Fold Munchkins are not recognised by any cat registries'- well, I wonder why... :glare: )


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

They are so adorable as well  poor things. I have just had a look at how they breed them and it your right, it doesn't seem ethical. I was under the impression they were a real breed before and that they just had a short stature like some breeds of dogs. I thought it was just a trait of the breed 

Singapuras are cute, are there many breeders in england?


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> They are so adorable as well  poor things. I have just had a look at how they breed them and it your right, it doesn't seem ethical. I was under the impression they were a real breed before and that they just had a short stature like some breeds of dogs. I thought it was just a trait of the breed
> 
> Singapuras are cute, are there many breeders in england?


If you type in the breed's cat club (for any breed e.g. Siamese Cat Club, Maine Coon Cat Club etc.), they tend to have lots of info about traits, breeders, colours etc. 

Here's some Singapura breeders:
UK Breeders

I'm wondering if BSH might be your kind of breed. They're nice and cobby like the munchkin


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

JordanRose said:


> If you type in the breed's cat club (for any breed e.g. Siamese Cat Club, Maine Coon Cat Club etc.), they tend to have lots of info about traits, breeders, colours etc.
> 
> Here's some Singapura breeders:
> UK Breeders
> ...


You shouldn't have done that Jordan :nono:

It's ok though, no breeders near me :tongue_smilie:


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

MollyMilo said:


> You shouldn't have done that Jordan :nono:
> 
> It's ok though, no breeders near me :tongue_smilie:


There's a couple near me, including one called 'Spookipaws'!!  :lol:


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

JordanRose said:


> There's a couple near me, including one called 'Spookipaws'!!  :lol:


Haha yes I saw that!!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

google bamino cats then :nono:


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> google bamino cats then :nono:


Have found it difficult to remove the image from my mind the first time I googled ..


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> google bamino cats then :nono:


Why?! Just why? 

There's also the 'Napoleon' (Persian x Munchkin). They give them these 'cutesy' names to try and deter from the unethical breeding practices behind them


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

JordanRose said:


> Why?! Just why?
> 
> There's also the 'Napoleon' (Persian x Munchkin). They give them these 'cutesy' names to try and deter from the unethical breeding practices behind them


not heard of them will have to look


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## Welsh Fox (Mar 21, 2013)

Lunabuma said:


> Have found it difficult to remove the image from my mind the first time I googled ..


Same here, poor things


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm not one for breeds when you can't breed type to type, I do know a Munchkin breeder who's tested her cats for all kinds of things and all her cats & kittens seem to be healthy. And I know an Oriental breeder who owns a pet Munchkin who says the cat can run, play and jump just as much as her other cats.

they are outcross to domestics, which is in the standard here. If you were to get one make sure the breeder does every test, but I'd go with a Singa anyday.
My mentors friend breeds Singa's and if I had the room would have a show neuter here. 

TICA often accepts these designer cross breed cats, Napoleons and Minskins are part of their new breeds list.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

I fail to see the appeal of a cat that has been bred to carry a deformity.

How can anyone think it is cute and actually covet one?

Munchkin, Napoleon, Bambino - they are all born with deformities - deliberately :nonod:


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

The strangest looking cat breed I've ever come across is the munchkin/sphynx elf ears  looks like something from lord of the rings 

http://www.grandsphynx.com/dwelf.html


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I think the strangest I've seen are Lyoki's. Not a deformity like folded ears or short legs, but just odd looking cats. Which have been given registration status under TICA

Home Page


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> I think the strangest I've seen are Lyoki's. Not a deformity like folded ears or short legs, but just odd looking cats. Which have been given registration status under TICA
> 
> Home Page


   

I seriously have no words


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

Those are the strangest cats I have ever seen. I don't know what I think of them to be honest! 

I looked at how munchkins are bred and saw that it is munchkin to munchkin breeding that 25% of the litter will die. I guess that explains the reasons for all the unusual crosses. I'd like to meet one and see what they are like. 

As the gene is a mutation do you think there is a chance (albeit slim) that I might come across a cat or kitten advertised or in a rescue that had randomly been born with dwarfism? I'd still really like one but I won't be buying one from a breeder as I don't like the idea of supporting breeding cats unethically.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

If you want to go for a unique breed and perhaps not many in the uk, have a look at sphynx or snowshoes


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

spotty cats said:


> I think the strangest I've seen are Lyoki's. Not a deformity like folded ears or short legs, but just odd looking cats. Which have been given registration status under TICA
> 
> Home Page





MollyMilo said:


> The strangest looking cat breed I've ever come across is the munchkin/sphynx elf ears  looks like something from lord of the rings
> 
> DWELF CATS


Yuck yuck yuck


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

spid said:


> Yuck yuck yuck


Everyone knows I love me cats but that is hideous!


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

I read Spotty cats posts about the Lykoi just before I logged off and went to bed. The yellow eyes and scanty fur haunted my dreams! 

Apologies to those who adore them, but nope not for me thank you!


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Is it wrong that I kind of liked the look of the Lykoi? 

The more I looked at them the more I found them alluring but then, I like scruffy looking animals. We have an Angora X rabbit at the SAA who I just adore! He's the funniest looking bunny you could ever see but I think he's amazing!! :lol:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

JordanRose said:


> Is it wrong that I kind of liked the look of the Lykoi?
> 
> The more I looked at them the more I found them alluring but then, I like scruffy looking animals. We have an Angora X rabbit at the SAA who I just adore! He's the funniest looking bunny you could ever see but I think he's amazing!! :lol:


To me they looked like they couldn't stand correctly - I suspect bone or back problems (like with the GSDs nowadays). *shudders remembering them*


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

JordanRose said:


> Is it wrong that I kind of liked the look of the Lykoi?
> 
> The more I looked at them the more I found them alluring but then, I like scruffy looking animals. We have an Angora X rabbit at the SAA who I just adore! He's the funniest looking bunny you could ever see but I think he's amazing!! :lol:


:lol: you are so perfect for animal rescue

You big softy


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> I think the strangest I've seen are Lyoki's. Not a deformity like folded ears or short legs, but just odd looking cats. Which have been given registration status under TICA
> 
> Home Page


Christ on a bike - you'd never be burgled if you had one of those would you! :yikes:


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

spid said:


> To me they looked like they couldn't stand correctly - I suspect bone or back problems (like with the GSDs nowadays). *shudders remembering them*


Having had a closer look, I think you might be right. Doesn't look right, does it? Like their front legs are too long for their back legs 

Also, I had a look in the gallery and noticed some had no fur underneath so had weird mohawks. Very strange...



MollyMilo said:


> :lol: you are so perfect for animal rescue
> 
> You big softy


I joke about it all the time- how I'll end up with a house full of all the battered looking animals.

Can't wait


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MollyMilo said:


> The strangest looking cat breed I've ever come across is the munchkin/sphynx elf ears  looks like something from lord of the rings
> 
> DWELF CATS


Ah yes these are the bambinos arnt they they must have two names.


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