# Can I get refund back off breeder



## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi, I viewed a litter of pugs. They are £1200 for females £1000 for males. She wanted a £400 deposit. When I viewed the puppies they were 5 days old.I put a deposit down for a female on the wednesday night. My circumstances changed, I don't want to go into detail but my partner left and I cant afford to buy the puppy. I have a mortgage and 3 children to think about. I contacted the breeder on the Friday when the puppy was now 7 days old. I explained my circumstances but she said I cant have deposit back. She said I don't have to take the puppy but I will lose the £400. The advert did not state it was non refundable and with the puppy only being 7 days old I can't see how she can do this. I understand that they take deposits to secure the puppy but under these circumstances I think its rather unfair not to refund. I would not have put deposit down if I knew my partner was leaving.Do I have no rights? Is there not a cooling period or anything like that?


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

Honestly do not know where you stand legally.
But a deposit is a deposit and I understand such to be NON refundable that is why people ask for them, if they were refundable there would not any pointing taking them. That is just my interputation. 

That all said - the breeder was a little early letting people view the litter I feel - unless it were at a distance!


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

As with anything you have a cooling down period - go back to her and request your refund on the basis that you contacted her within the cooling down period and that you had not been advised that the deposit was non refundable. 

If she refuses take her to the small claims court - it will cost in the region of £65, however, she will have to cover your costs including attending court - if she is wise she won't go down that route.

Hope this helps.


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## The3DChis (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh am so sorry you are going through that.
£400 is a lot to lose, but sadly i think all breeders have a non refund policy for deposits.
They do normally state that though when people enquire about pups or have it in their ads.
I dont know what your rights are sorry.

I know in my experience even if i put a deposit on newly born pup it was stated it was non refundable if i backed out.
It was only to be refunded if there was a problem with the pup, as in health problems while in the breeders care.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

912142 said:


> As with anything you have a cooling down period - go back to her and request your refund on the basis that you contacted her within the cooling down period and that you had not been advised that the deposit was non refundable.
> 
> If she refuses take her to the small claims court - it will cost in the region of £65, however, she will have to cover your costs including attending court - if she is wise she won't go down that route.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Are you sure this applies to livestock ? there are certain things that are excempt - UNLESS it were covered by the distance buying loop - and the OP did go to the breeders house? curious to know for certain.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I have trawled the net trying to find the answer to your question,but i can't find the answer.Just a thought though,do you have legal cover on any insurances,if you do you could use that.*


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

What does the receipt say (word for word) when you gave her the money?


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## Sparkle (Jan 28, 2010)

It depends on your terms (reciept/contract) deposits in general are normally non refundable! The deposit is quite steep IMO but that's irrelevant! 

Unless you have any proof that she stated it was refundable frankly I don't think you have a leg to stand on legally. Without any form of contract it would
Be your word against hers in a small claims court.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi, I don't think you have much chance of getting your money back but have a look through here, it may help
Consumer information - Trading Standards Institute


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## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi, she didnt give me a receipt or contract. she kept it. her advert does not state non refundable.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> she didnt give me a receipt or contract. she kept it


So you gave her £400 and have no receipt to say you have given it to her 

I'm not sure legally you have a leg to stand on. An ethical breeder would refund under your circumstances, but everything you have said points to this breeder being in it for the money and not a good one.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what to suggest except contact someone like trading standards and ask their advice.


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## frodos_electric_guitar (Nov 19, 2010)

Again legally I'm not sure but I suspect you might just have to write it off as a mistake. The deposit is not only to secure the pup for yourself but security knowing the pup is spoken for from the breeders perspective. If you back out I can't see you getting your money back. 

I know it's apples and oranges but we have recently put a deposite down on a rental property. The contract clealy states that if the landlord backs out we get our money back, but should we be the ones to backout the deposit is non refundable. Now the fact that the breeder doesn't seem to have given you any sort of reciept or contract is a bit of a concern but I imagine there is a standard resolution for this kind of situation. It might be worth trying to find out what it is before heading down the small claims court route.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

912142 said:


> As with anything you have a cooling down period - go back to her and request your refund on the basis that you contacted her within the cooling down period and that you had not been advised that the deposit was non refundable.
> 
> If she refuses take her to the small claims court - it will cost in the region of £65, however, she will have to cover your costs including attending court - if she is wise she won't go down that route.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Is there though? There certainly is for "business conducted away from business premises" - whether the same applies here I don't know 

I do however sympathise with the OP's predicament - £400 is IMO a HUGE deposit regardless of the price of the pups (and not a big fan of breeders who charge different amounts for different genders either).

I also think 7 days is too early to commit to a pup financially, I never ask for this before four weeks 

I would be honest with the breeder about your change in circumstances and exaplain there was nothing saying the deposit was non-refundable - if the puppies have been responsibly bred, then they should have no problem finding a new owner - you MIGHT find they want to wait until they find another owner before they do 

If it was me, there would be NO hesitation providing you contacted me with the full facts - even though I do say the deposit is non-refundable - I do and have returned deposits in genuine circumstances.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

michelleemmerson said:


> Hi, she didnt give me a receipt or contract. she kept it. her advert does not state non refundable.


With no receipt or contract I don't think you stand much chance of getting your money back. It doesn't sound like a reputable breeder not to have given you any sort of receipt especially for such a large sum of money.
I take a non-refundable deposit on my kittens but would refund under some circumstances such as yours.


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## gladass (Jan 6, 2011)

I do not think you will get your money back. I do not know your circumstances but imo to break up etc.. within 2 days of putting a deposit on a pup is a bit confusing for me to understand. None of my business I know but if it was one of my pups I would be sort of suspicious if someone put a deposit on a pup and within 2 days decided to pull out. Sorry not meaning to sound bad but I am looking at it from both sides.
Saying that you could try contacting here Doglaw but the fact you have no proof of handing over any deposit means imo that you actually have to proof you indeed did hand money over


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

tbh the only thing you could really do is to keep on friendly terms with the ' breeder' and ask her if she did sell the puppy again for the full price( as being so young she has quite a while to sell the little pup) would she consider giving you your deposit back then? other than that, as others have said, with no receipt etc you really have no proof that you actually gave her a deposit in the first place


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*If you have no proof you have handed over money is it possible to email the seller and get her to mention in some way that you have given her the £400? Its always best to get something in writing that you may need to fall back on.*


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

TBH someone letting you pick a pup at 5 days old is a bad breeder, it's a lot of money to lose but if you had done your homework you wouldn't of gone near this breeder with a bargepole, sorry this sounds nasty but it's a bit silly handing over £400 not getting a receipt pups are very venerable at this age and could easily still die for weeks to come! 

It don't look like you will be getting the money back.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I`m slightly gobsmacked that you gave someone £400 and didn`t get a receipt. I`m sorry for your circumstances but tbh I`d take it as a hard lesson and write it off.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Are you sure this applies to livestock ? there are certain things that are excempt - UNLESS it were covered by the distance buying loop - and the OP did go to the breeders house? curious to know for certain.


In law a puppy is an item for sale and as no contract has changed hands my guess is she is entitled to a refund. After all if the breeder suddenly decided the pup was the perfect show dog she/he would keep that pup back and refund the deposit - can't have it both ways. Put her to the test I think she would lose this one.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

michelleemmerson said:


> Hi, she didnt give me a receipt or contract. she kept it. her advert does not state non refundable.


Did you take anyone with you when you went to see the pup?


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

912142 said:


> In law a puppy is an item for sale and as no contract has changed hands my guess is she is entitled to a refund. After all if the breeder suddenly decided the pup was the perfect show dog she/he would keep that pup back and refund the deposit - can't have it both ways. Put her to the test I think she would lose this one.


Dunno! don't fancy the OP's chances myself, And to take to the small claims court you really would need something on paper even of only a receipt.

The whole idea of a deposit it to secure by reserving an item with the intension of buying. There would be no use taking a deposit if it were automatically refunded should one change ones mind.


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## Lady.turbo.wrx (Apr 14, 2011)

*Have just spoken to a friend of mine who breeds Akita's and generally Deposits are Non-Refundable as there securing a puppy,that is unless the breeder returns it to you (as a good will gesture) and as never heard of a cooling off period,this term is normally when taking out insurance,but even then the Deposit given is non-refundable..

But without any proof of the £400 deposit,the breeder could simply say,no deposit was given..

Sorry but its not looking good in your favour..*


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## tillywink (Feb 11, 2011)

Why did you not request a receipt?

£400 is a lot of money to hand over without any proof of it every being handed over? :nono:


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## Sparkle (Jan 28, 2010)

912142 said:


> In law a puppy is an item for sale and as no contract has changed hands my guess is she is entitled to a refund. After all if the breeder suddenly decided the pup was the perfect show dog she/he would keep that pup back and refund the deposit - can't have it both ways. Put her to the test I think she would lose this one.


There is no proof that monies exchanged hands it wouldn't uphold in a court its the breeders word against the consumers unfortunately


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

God sake. I am so sick of breeders taking non refundable deposits, and to make it worse not having anything in writing to prove buyer has handed it over - thats bad in its self.
There is no need for the deposit not to be handed back over, even more so in genuine cases (like this!).

I doubt you will have a leg to stand on either, you have no proof that you have handed money over to her. For all you know the recipt that she kept says ' non refundable ' .. 

If you can get her to mention the 'deposit' in an email or letter, it will be a step forward -but that will only prove you left one, will not prove that it were refundable or not. 

This could turn into a case of she said, he said...


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

I have just spoken with my friend who is a lawyer and he says:

Given the purchaser was not made aware that the deposit was non-refundable and there is no contract (as this is done when the pups change hands) then if the breeder is reputable she should return the deposit. It's not enough for a breeder to assume that clients know that a deposit is non-refundable they must make the customer aware prior to money changing hands.

However, if the person offering to buy was under 18, then the Minors Contracts Act 1981 says that they are not bound by contract due to age and the deposit must be refunded.

The other thing he said was she should speak to her local MP who may approach the breeder on her behalf or raise the issue of breeders/consumer rights in Parliament. 

It's up to you how you would handle this but me personally I would challenge all the way.

Good luck.


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## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi,
Thanks for every ones replies and thanks especially to 912142.The advert says £400 deposit but it does not say non refundable. I have emailed the breeder and I am waiting for her reply. She wrote down a receipt with my details on and kept it. I know I should of got a receipt but didnt think my circumstances were going to change and that I would not be able to buy the puppy. It has certainly put me off buying from a breeder again


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

michelleemmerson said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for every ones replies and thanks especially to 912142.The advert says £400 deposit but it does not say non refundable. I have emailed the breeder and I am waiting for her reply. She wrote down a receipt with my details on and kept it. I know I should of got a receipt but didnt think my circumstances were going to change and that I would not be able to buy the puppy. It has certainly put me off buying from a breeder again


There is nothing wrong with giving a reputable breeder a deposit , just not back yard ones 

I do wish you luck with getting your money back, as if you having a very bad time at the moment, just next time do some homework into good breeders if you are in the position to get a dog again.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

What an awful predicament. I breed pugs and have taken deposits for the last litter due to timewasters in previous litters letting us down the day they were due to pick the pup up, or having us hold onto it for hols etc then let us down! However, when people have changed their minds (has happened a couple of times) we have always refunded the deposit, and only ever take a £100 deposit, £400 seems extortionate.

If you would like you can PM me the name of the breeder and I can see if I can do any digging into who they are, perhaps shame them into giving it back if they are considered a reputable breeder


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

michelleemmerson said:


> It has certainly put me off buying from a breeder again


I sympathised with your predicament and told you what I would do under the circumstances as have many other breeders on this thread. Some have even offered to help and get involved.

Your comment therefore I believe is GROSSLY unfair.

Just like every other thing in life, there are good and bad breeders - many of us wish there wasn't bad breeders, but it's a sad fact of life that there are - and therefore, puppy buyers MUST do their research.

Only recently on another forum, someone queried handing over a £325 deposit for a puppy - from the feedback they received, they walked away from the litter.

Irrespective of whether you knew your circumstances were going to change or not, would you hand over a deposit with no receipt in a shop or a garage? I suspect the answer is a resounding no - so why therefore would you do this to a breeder where your consumer rights will be much less - the breeder could easily argue that you never paid a deposit and therefore refuse to sell you a pup without any proof.

You've not had a response from the breeder yet, so are working on the assumption they won't be willing to meet you half way - but I hope this thread is a lesson to others to take more caution when handing over hard earned cash.

As for your comment about "being put off buying from a breeder again" - I find that highly offensive, particularly when people have gone out of their way to try and help - and people like Jess who have even offered to go 'that extra mile' for you.

ETA - many breeders are members of this and other forums, if I stumbled across this thread, and hadn't been approached for my money back - I would be seriously unhappy about firstly the thread, and secondly some of the comments.

The simple fact is, that at this moment in time, from what I can see, the breeder hasn't said yes or no to returning all or part of your deposit.

I think, as do others, the deposit is high, if you had asked the question BEFORE seeing the pups, you may have posted on this forums beforehand and would still have most or all of your money still safely in your pocket.


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

Did you pay by cash or Cheque?? 

If you paid by Cheque YOU HAVE PROOF!!! the banks can trace which account and whome it belongs too where it cleared AND they can send you a photocopy of the said cheque as well

Then you can take her to small claims court the £400 will cost you £25 in small claims court if you win she will have to pay the court fees as well.

You need a copy of the advert. and all the copies you can get of the cheque

She also sounds Dodgy! 

If its cash then i am really sorry but you haven't got a chance 

I paid for my puppy with a cheque for this very very reason! I have a paper trail!


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## gladass (Jan 6, 2011)

912142 said:


> then if the breeder is reputable she should return the deposit. .


and imo here will lie the problem. No Ethical/ responsible breeder I know of lets anyone view their pups at 5 days old.
Also as I have said before If this had indeed been aan ethical/ responsible breeder they imo would be slightly peeved if after 2 days a buyer decided that they did not want the pup. Some things are bought on a whim so to speak and I in my lifetime have met/ dealt with a few timewasters etc...
I am looking at it from both parties point of view.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Hope all works out ok for you, but i must admit i am amzed that someone can hand over £400 for anything without getting a reciept.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

gladass said:


> and imo here will lie the problem. No Ethical/ responsible breeder I know of lets anyone view their pups at 5 days old.


I do agree with this in principle, however, I think we should be careful not to pre-judge the response the breeder gives.



gladass said:


> If this had indeed been aan ethical/ responsible breeder they imo would be slightly peeved if after 2 days a buyer decided that they did not want the pup. Some things are bought on a whim so to speak and I in my lifetime have met/ dealt with a few timewasters etc...


Yes and no, it would depend on the circumstances. I am not going into details, but this has happened to me, by someone even now I would be more than happy to place a dog with and in fact, am still in contact with them 2 years on - but I respected the reasons why they changed their mind and refunded their deposit.

Whilst I agree that some people DO buy dogs on a whim (too many if we are honest) - we know nothing about the OP's personal circumstances other than what we've been told, and I have previously seen relationships break down that quickly where no problem was anticipated - so yes, life really can change that quickly for some people


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

swarthy said:


> Whilst I agree that some people DO buy dogs on a whim (too many if we are honest) - we know nothing about the OP's personal circumstances other than what we've been told, and I have previously seen relationships break down that quickly where no problem was anticipated - so yes, life really can change that quickly for some people


I have to agree with this I know someone who was perfectly happy and without knowing there was anythign wrong the next day her husband told her he wanted a divorce with a 2 week old baby!!

You never know what happens in peoples lives.


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## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi Swarthy, I did contact the breeder as soon as it happened and she said no I am not refunding the money. She said I did not have to take the pup in 7 weeks time but that I would lose the £400. I know lots of people on here have helped and I am grateful to all of them and especially grateful to Jess who is helping. I suppose I am wrong to judge everyone the same and I apologise for that.


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## The3DChis (Jan 17, 2011)

Like others have said and now that you have said you didnt even get a receipt for the £400 you will be very lucky to get youir money back am afraid.

No breeder i know of would allow anyone to view pups at 5 days old for fear of people bringing something into the house that could cause the pups to be ill or die.
Unless you only saw pics and just wanted to put a deposit down quickly?

Has the breeder actually said a firm no to you getting your money back?
Maybe they also had a waiting list for pups as a lot do.

Like i said it is pretty standard for deposits to be non refundable.
With dogs and a lot of other things in life too.
I honestly wouldnt waste my time going down the small claims court route with no proof of payment anyhow.

Hopefully in your circumstances the breeder will be understanding, but if not it's a tough lesson learned.


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## bagpuss4 (Mar 7, 2011)

I think most breeders state a non refundable deposit. I got a receipt to say i,ve paid. soo there no evidence to say you have paid the breeder money.

Woo i didn't think pugs were that dear! well looks like i,ll never have a pug

Good luck


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## The3DChis (Jan 17, 2011)

Ah sorry just saw your reply after i posted mine.


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## gladass (Jan 6, 2011)

michelleemmerson said:


> Hi Swarthy, I did contact the breeder as soon as it happened and she said no I am not refunding the money. She said I did not have to take the pup in 7 weeks time but that I would lose the £400. I know lots of people on here have helped and I am grateful to all of them and especially grateful to Jess who is helping. I suppose I am wrong to judge everyone the same and I apologise for that.


Hope you get somewhere with this breeder


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

bagpuss4 said:


> I think most breeders state a non refundable deposit. I got a receipt to say i,ve paid. soo there no evidence to say you have paid the breeder money.
> 
> Woo i didn't think pugs were that dear! well looks like i,ll never have a pug
> 
> Good luck


The price is rather high, especially for pet quality pugs (as these seem to be, the breeder certainly doesnt show), however it is a breed with a huge amount of variation in price and I have seen them more expensive 

Hopefully we will be able to talk the breeder into giving some (if not all) of the money back, I have managed to track down people who know her. Probably best not to get too hopeful though as it seems the story the breeder told Michelle about her breeding practices and experiences aren't entirely true, from what i've been getting told...


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

michelleemmerson said:


> Hi Swarthy, I did contact the breeder as soon as it happened and she said no I am not refunding the money. She said I did not have to take the pup in 7 weeks time but that I would lose the £400. I know lots of people on here have helped and I am grateful to all of them and especially grateful to Jess who is helping. I suppose I am wrong to judge everyone the same and I apologise for that.


OK - I apologise, I missed that.

But as you acknowledge, not all breeders are bad - and I would hate others to get it wrong and miss out on getting their much loved pet based on one bad experience.

This thread should be a lesson on a number of fronts -


£400 is (IMO) a VERY high deposit regardless of the price of the pup

7 days old is way too early to be viewing pups and committing - they could still easily die at that age - I put off registering a litter as long as possible with time enough to ensure as far as I can be that the pups will be OK, and in time to ensure I have all the paperwork available for prospective owners inspection and for them to take home with them.

I would be interested to hear from breeders of higher end breeds (Price wise) and the sorts of deposits taken.

When I reflected on the pups I've bought, I've only once paid a deposit, and that was more than £100 - but I knew the breeder well - and there were sound reasons for paying that deposit - but situations like that are, IMO an exception to the rule.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

not higher end price wise for pups for my breed (£650-850) however i'd expect to take a £100 cash deposit after potential purchaser has seen pups at 6 weeks.


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

personaly I wouldn't expect the money back, the deposit is to stop people backing out after reserving a puppy. Im so sorry it was such a large sum of money you have lost, for most people that is a lot to throw down the drain 
This woman doesn't sound like a responsable breeder and at such an early age it is near impossible to choose your puppy based on anything other than how much of a sausage the look like. 
I would like to think the breeder would refund you due to your situation but by the sounds of it this woman sound like a bit of a money grabber. Good luck with it all


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

michelleemmerson said:


> Hi, I viewed a litter of pugs. They are £1200 for females £1000 for males. She wanted a £400 deposit. When I viewed the puppies they were 5 days old.I put a deposit down for a female on the wednesday night. My circumstances changed, I don't want to go into detail but my partner left and I cant afford to buy the puppy. I have a mortgage and 3 children to think about. I contacted the breeder on the Friday when the puppy was now 7 days old. I explained my circumstances but she said I cant have deposit back. She said I don't have to take the puppy but I will lose the £400. The advert did not state it was non refundable and with the puppy only being 7 days old I can't see how she can do this. I understand that they take deposits to secure the puppy but under these circumstances I think its rather unfair not to refund. I would not have put deposit down if I knew my partner was leaving.Do I have no rights? Is there not a cooling period or anything like that?


I have just read your thread. A breeder would of given you a receipt for payment of Deposit with amount outstanding and paid in full on collection of said puppy all written down. I never ever let anyone come and view my puppies until the are around 4 to 5 weeks old, I do think 5 days is really early to go view a puppy and pay a large deposit. I take deposits for my puppies that I have had and always state non refundable, I always take my puppies for their first injection and a thorough check over before handing over to new owners.
I don't think you will get your deposit back as the outcome was from your end not the breeders fault for any reason. Horrible as it sounds, you chose your puppy and you at the time wanted it and paid a deposit, the breeder was not to know what was going to happen to you (so sorry to hear that by the way).
Having said that, if it was me....I would of given it back to you as the puppy is still fairly newborn so to speak, and I would of had other people to fall back on who are waiting for a puppy....so no loss there....same said for that breeder if she is a good breeder she would of had a waiting list so she wouldn't be missing out on any money. 
Have you tried to go back to the breeder and explain your situation again and say you are struggling for money now your OH have left you, cry if you have to you never know she may have a heart and give in and give it to you back. But dont hold your breath. xx


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

In all honesty OP - your opening post was to ask us if the breeder were obliged by law to refund your deposit, many of us have replied with how we consider that we do not think there is much chance of you receiving a refund!

That does not mean that we don't think that you should get one! Hell! none of us want to see a 'certain' type of breeder to benifit financially because of others sad circumstances. As others have said - they would under the circumstances have refunded! I guess many of us a seething that this breeder is likely to gain another £400 from this litter by NOT refunding you. 
We do not know the breed - can we ask this?
And sure if there is anything that any of us can to to help then we will
DT


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> In all honesty OP - your opening post was to ask us if the breeder were obliged by law to refund your deposit, many of us have replied with how we consider that we do not think there is much chance of you receiving a refund!
> 
> That does not mean that we don't think that you should get one! Hell! none of us want to see a 'certain' type of breeder to benifit financially because of others sad circumstances. As others have said - they would under the circumstances have refunded! I guess many of us a seething that this breeder is likely to gain another £400 from this litter by NOT refunding you.
> We do not know the breed - can we ask this?
> ...


They were Pug DT, expensive too.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> We do not know the breed - can we ask this?


It's a pug breeder DT it's in the opening post :lol:


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

If the puppy was 8 weeks old and the person backed out at that time not wanting the puppy for some reason, then the breeder can KEEP the money as it is classed as Damages in a court, ie........re advertising, feeding and caring, inoculations etc etc. the courts would say the breeder would keep the money so other person would loose it completely, but as this puppy is only around a week old now, this breeder should give the money back as she IS NOT loosing anything, she can find a new owner from her puppy list if she have one, or re advertise along with the other puppies.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

swarthy said:


> [
> 
> I would be interested to hear from breeders of higher end breeds (Price wise) and the sorts of deposits taken.


I would class my breed as high end at an average of £800 a pup, although some charge more due to colour :nono: but deposits are generally £100

There are some who ask for more than that and also some that ask for full payment of pup to be paid couple of weeks before you pick up your pup


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

A solution that may be worth putting to the breeder!
You have, afterall, given her extra notice and time to resell the pup!
Coud you maybe suggest to her that beyond the age of 8 weeks if the pup is still there that you will pay - a reasonable amount for boarding to be deducted from the initial deposit that you have payed providing she does continue to seek a good home. The remained of the deposit to be returned to you!

Failing that! I personally would play dirty! and this would be threatening to inform the Inland revenue and anyone else that I thought COULD be interested! just a suggestion - sometimes you have to fight fire with fire! that of course is assuming that you have tried all the 'nice' ways!
all the best!
DT


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

pearltheplank said:


> I would class my breed as high end at an average of £800 a pup, although some charge more due to colour :nono: but deposits are generally £100
> 
> There are some who ask for more than that and also some that ask for full payment of pup to be paid couple of weeks before you pick up your pup


£100 seems to be fairly standard fare then irrespective of breed - Labs do seem to have risen in price a bit of late, but the deposit (where asked for) is still relatively consistent and usually after 4/5 weeks.

Why on earth are people willing to even consider paying so much so early on -only a couple of weeks ago, a breeder was asking for HALF the price of the pup as a deposit BEFORE the puppies were born 

And as for paying in full for the pup in advance - no, no, no - do people really fall for these scenarios 

==========================================

We don't need new laws for dog breeding, it's the puppy buyers that need to be educated


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

For our pups we ask £100 deposit regardless of the breed (and therefore the price).

When we take the deposit we make people aware of the payment options for the pup. Either they pay the remaining balance in full when they collect the pup if they are paying by cash, OR we ask for a payment at least 5 working days in advance of them picking the pup up if they choose to pay by cheque to ensure the cheque clears before they get the pup. Much as we thoroughly vet and trust the new puppy owners as much as we can, it would not really be sensible to let a pup go without having recieved the payment for it beforehand.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

We put a £200 deposit on Alaska if I remember correctly. But we had a receipt.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

> Why on earth are people willing to even consider paying so much so early on -only a couple of weeks ago, a breeder was asking for HALF the price of the pup as a deposit BEFORE the puppies were born


I do not pay a deposit anymore....and if I was going to it would have to be one hell of a breeder. I put a deposit down on Alaska, but Kai and Aiden were paid in full the day we got them.

Aiden's breeder trusted us that much that she knew we would be there for him on the day he was ready to go so she didnt need to take money.

Alaska's breeder didnt know us at the time...not like she does now.

I have already decided I wont be taking deposits for any of our pups....if there are any we are selling.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> I have already decided I wont be taking deposits for any of our pups....if there are any we are selling.


So you would keep a whole litter?  why - that would be nothing less than insanity 

Most good prospective owners don't mind paying a deposit after they have seen the pups and firmed up their choice on which pup they want - it offers the breeder some level of surety that the buyer is serious about the puppy, because all the vetting in the world won't uncover a good conman

Puppy buyers can and do mess people around - ideally you can sort the wheat from the chaff before they come to view the litter - but people can still be very plausible.

It's also, not only a sign of commitment by the puppy buyer, but the breeder as well.

Most breeders DO take a deposit at some stage - it's large deposits and the timing of them (i.e. before a certain stage in a puppy's life) that I have an issue with.

As already said I will, and have returned a deposit - but there is, in principle and within reasonable terms, nothing wrong with taking a small deposit.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

swarthy said:


> So you would keep a whole litter?  why - that would be nothing less than insanity


Hehe...noooo well I would actually keep the whole litter if It came to it. But the likely hood of her having more than 2 pups is slim. I intend to keep 1 or 2 pups so its just wishful thinking that she may have 4....if she does....then great, if she doesnt....then still great.

I am not really fussed how many she has as long as she survives and is healthy/happy thats all I can ask for.

My friend's girl had a litter of 4...within 24 hours 2 were dead. The final 2 are doing great and are off to their new homes in 2 weeks.


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## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

thanks again everyone. I emailed her again at dinnertime but up until now i have not had a reply. Jess let me know what you find out please.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

I was under the impression that a 14 day cooling off period only applied if a deposit was paid for goods or services obtained when the seller approaches the buyer in their premises. If the buyer approaches the seller either through retail premises or an advert, then there is no cooling off period. Therefore any deposit paid would be non-refundable.

Unfortunately, I don't think you stand much chance but you could try all that has been suggested, you never know, it just might work. If you make a nuisance of yourself, the breeder might give you your money back just to get rid of you.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

swarthy said:


> So you would keep a whole litter?  why - that would be nothing less than insanity


We kept a whole litter a couple of years ago after the mum (Gracie pug  ) died. I couldnt bear to part with my little Gracelings!


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

There are whole litters and whole litters though. 3 or 4 toy breed pups isn't quite the same as 11 working breed pups lol.


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## Bwy39 (Apr 12, 2011)

I read this thread with sadness in my heart for more than one reason.

First of all a person in good faith paid a deposit for a young puppy. This person had faith in the seller and showed her trust by not taking a receipt for her £400.

Yes we can all criticise and say how silly she was but she did show trust in another human being and in these times that is a rare item.

Next we see the buyers circumstances suddenly change forcing a request to cancel the deal and a request for a refund.

We all know the seller is not forced by law to refund but how about that small thing called "Human Kindness" or even the return of the faith shown.

I had intended to say a lot more on this but will keep it short.

My advice for what it is worth is for the OP to contact her local Citizens Advice Bureau and see what they have to say but in all honesty if the seller did not insist that the buyer takes a receipt then I doubt if the seller is reputable and would not hold much hope in a refund.

I can only hope that this turns out better than we all expect and that the OP informs us of the final outcome.

I wish you luck.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

swarthy said:


> Why on earth are people willing to even consider paying so much so early on -only a couple of weeks ago, a breeder was asking for HALF the price of the pup as a deposit BEFORE the puppies were born
> 
> And as for paying in full for the pup in advance - no, no, no - do people really fall for these scenarios


Totally agree - most know I am not a 'fan' of deposits for various reasons and we dont ask for one.. But there are right and wrong ways to go about it, and its about time people were educated enough to tell what kinda breeder someone is from the kind of deposit their asking..money, money, money and the earlier the better for some breeders


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Jess2308 said:


> We kept a whole litter a couple of years ago after the mum (Gracie pug  ) died. I couldnt bear to part with my little Gracelings!






luvmydogs said:


> There are whole litters and whole litters though. 3 or 4 toy breed pups isn't quite the same as 11 working breed pups lol.


OK - maybe I worded it wrong - a lot does depend on the size of the litter - I would think little of keeping 2 or 3 pups, but wouldn't intentionally want to keep more than that - and probably would limit to 2 unless there were other reasons behind keeping more.

Sl - why would she only have 2 pups? The average sized litter for a Sheltie is repordtedly 4 to 6 pups - so she could have many more than 2.

The average size of a Labrador litter is 8, but I've known people to have 14 surviving pups


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> There are whole litters and whole litters though. 3 or 4 toy breed pups isn't quite the same as 11 working breed pups lol.


I kept 6 puglets. Trust me, 10 labradors are SO much easier :lol: I love my pugs, but they are a handful


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2011)

swarthy said:


> Sl - why would she only have 2 pups? The average sized litter for a Sheltie is repordtedly 4 to 6 pups - so she could have many more than 2.


Had a talk about this with some of the breeders a few weeks back, 1 of my friends who breeds frequently said that it should be more like 2-3 because of many of the bitches who have 4-5 lose a couple of pups.

Aiden was one of 5 and no pups died.
Alaska was one of 4.
Kai was one of 3. (1 pup died).

My friends bitch had 4, 2 died. (they are now 6 weeks old)
Another friends bitch had 4 and 1 died. (just a week ago)
Another one of the girls I talk to had a litter of 3 and 2 died.

It would be interesting to see the stat's behind it. I must say I have not seen a 6 pup litter yet.

Though it would be interesting. 
Guess we wont know how many she will have until she has them, if she has them.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> I kept 6 puglets. Trust me, 10 labradors are SO much easier :lol: I love my pugs, but they are a handful


11 English Shepherd pups are difficult, even at 8 weeks. Any longer than that and I think I would have gone bald! :lol:


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

luvmydogs said:


> 11 English Shepherd pups are difficult, even at 8 weeks. Any longer than that and I think I would have gone bald! :lol:


:lol: - I am ordering 6 for any future litters - lovely optimum number for a litter of Labs


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

After the first litter of 11 I pray for smaller litters - but 11 is very normal for ES's. She had 10 the second time and I had been whispering in her ear 'six would be a nice litter' for 8 weeks :lol:


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Bwy39 said:


> I read this thread with sadness in my heart for more than one reason.
> 
> First of all a person in good faith paid a deposit for a young puppy. This person had faith in the seller and showed her trust by not taking a receipt for her £400.
> 
> ...


 I don't think there are many people on this thread who have responded who don't feel that the OP should get their money back, whatever the circumstances - but the fact remains, it's also a lesson learnt for her, and others who will visit this thread in the future, will may help prevent others doing the same thing.

Sadly, there are lots of points she has raised which make us believe she won't - that's not cruel or vindictive or nasty for what it's worth - sadly - it's life 

There are many people who have given advice, and even someone, involved in the same breed who really has gone well over and above what many 'anonymous' people would do on a forum.

I do hope the OP gets a resolution - and I hope this thread stays fresh - because it's a darn good warning to others who may find themselves in a similar situation to proceed with caution over factors such as the size of a deposit, the age of the pups, the difference in price between genders and the simple giving of a deposit without obtaining a written receipt of some description.

NONE of that is being nasty - forum members post to respond to a series of questions asked by an individual - which hopefully will go someway to resolving the individuals predicament.

However, they also act as an information bank for many people who come behind, hopefully helping someone else in the same situation, but also, we can hope, preventing others getting into a similar situation.

========================================

Human kindness and trust are all very good - but if more people realised that these are sentiments which should not be awarded lightly when it comes to searching for, and buying that 'perfect puppy' - the dog breeding world would be a much nicer and fairer more trustworthy place, another sad fact of life


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

My sympathies to the OP - I do take a £100 deposit once the pups are 4 weeks old -it is usually non refundable however I would refund in a case like this - changing your mind on a whim is one thing - coping with your partner leaving and having 2 small kids to care for is something else entirely - I do hope you have some luck in getting your money back and that things go better for you in the future.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

Bwy39 said:


> I read this thread with sadness in my heart for more than one reason.
> 
> First of all a person in good faith paid a deposit for a young puppy. This person had faith in the seller and showed her trust by not taking a receipt for her £400.
> 
> ...


We all hope that the OP gets her money back! what ever would make you think otherwise!
Most of us were replying honestly to her question though and the fact is it is highly unlikely that she will!

Do you want to to dress it up all pink and fluffly and say of course she will get her money back?
Not much point it that iah!
And I hope the OP comes back and lets us know how she gets on! would be good if she could name and shame the breeder two but fraid forums rules may not allow that!
DT


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## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

Just had an email from the breeder. She has said that I can have my deposit back as she feels I would just breed the dog anyway. What a cheek! She has said she has an appointment with her legal advisor on Tuesday. She said she will write a cheque but dont know if this will be after she sees her legal advisor. I will update when I get it. Thank you for everyones support.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

michelleemmerson said:


> Hi, she didnt give me a receipt or contract. she kept it. her advert does not state non refundable.


I cant answer your question but the biggest mistake you have made is not getting a reciept for the deposit... NEVER give anyone any deposit without a reciept because they could argue that you never paid it. 
If you had the reciept and there was nothing on it to say it wasnt non refundable then you might have been able to take her to small claims. But if i were you i would try and get the money together for the puppy because its such a lot of money to loose, i know its alot to find but if you get a male then its a bit less.
Can your ex not help you out as it would be a family pet for the kids aswell?


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

michelleemmerson said:


> Just had an email from the breeder. She has said that I can have my deposit back as she feels I would just breed the dog anyway. What a cheek! She has said she has an appointment with her legal advisor on Tuesday. She said she will write a cheque but dont know if this will be after she sees her legal advisor. I will update when I get it. Thank you for everyones support.


Initial response is promising. My concern (if it is the truth) is WHY is she seeing a legal advisor? over returning a £400 deposit? 

I would personally be more concerned that she has seen this thread


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## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

I have not named her though or said anything nasty. All I have done is asked for advice. First she said that she had decided to return my deposit and was seeing her legal adviser. Then she emailed to say when she had seen her legal advisor if he said to return it she will.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

michelleemmerson said:


> I have not named her though or said anything nasty. All I have done is asked for advice. First she said that she had decided to return my deposit and was seeing her legal adviser. Then she emailed to say when she had seen her legal advisor if he said to return it she will.


I know you haven't - but I do know the dog breeding world is a frighteningly small place - and if someone wanted to make the effort to find out who the breeder was, trust me when I say they would  - even moreso amongst the small dog breeders.

We had an instance on another forum recently where someone made some very false claims against a stud dog owner - When we started looking, it took us less than 5 minutes to find the details even with the scant information provided and get the thread removed because we could immediately prove in that instance, the information was completely wrong and could have led to some pretty serious consequences 

You would be shocked (as I suspect would many be) if you realised just how quickly information typed on these forums gets back to the source.

With regards to them 'seeing their legal adviser' about whether to give the money back or not - what's the typical fee for a 'legal person' - £120 / £200 an hour - mmmm - yeah - I rather suspect it's a ruse towards not paying it back - so I would see 'your' legal adviser who will of course tell you you have a case through the small claims court 

The law will invariably fall on the side of the party without the specialised knowledge, in this case - you.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Im sure the "legal advisor" thing is just a bluff, if she can truely afford a legal advisor then the £400 deposit would be nothing to her and she'd have happily handed it over :lol:

I would just send a polite reply thanking her in advance for returning the deposit, and KEEP THE EMAIL! She has already agreed, in writing, to return your deposit so there shouldnt be an issue.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

IF you were going to get your money back I'm pretty sure you would have done so by now, you handed over £400 without obtaining a receipt so only you and him/her know you handed so much money over - cash can't even be traced.

I feel awful for you but I seriously doubt you're going to see any of your money - so sorry


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## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

I have to go to her house tomorrow at 10.00 am to collect refund. She is no longer seeing legal adviser. Will let you know tomorrow if I get it


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

michelleemmerson said:


> I have to go to her house tomorrow at 10.00 am to collect refund. She is no longer seeing legal adviser. Will let you know tomorrow if I get it


hopefully its cash.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

I've just had an interesting email from a friend, will PM you Michelle.

Re the deposit, if you paid it in cash insist that you get it refunded in cash


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## Shayden (Mar 29, 2011)

jess dont keep it secret lol i wanna know


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Shayden said:


> jess dont keep it secret lol i wanna know


Hahaha, I know the feeling


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

I would ask for cash as that is the way you paid her, I would email her and ask her for cash so she can get it while she is out seeing her Legal Advisor NOT. Good Luck.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Shayden said:


> jess dont keep it secret lol i wanna know


:lol: Im not going to say anything publically as its only second hand info im getting so I cant personally verify it and dont want to get into trouble 

BTW... Michelle, empty your inbox :lol:


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## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

just emptied it Jess


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Ta, sent it  Hope it helps if theres any issues tomorrow


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

good luck but make sure you get cash not cheque in case it bounces


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

good luck and i'll echo the CASH and keeping a printed copy if the email offering refund of deposit too that legal proof if you have to take her to court that you paid deposit and she said ashe would refund it

fingers crossed


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

Get cash :


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Good luck, i hope you get your money back.


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

Her legal advisor was probably Citizens Advice and she couldn't get an appointment. They do wonders but around here you can't get to see them for weeks.


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## The3DChis (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh good, and yes i agree about getting cash not a cheque.
Why should you wait till it clears?
You paid cash to her so it's only right she pays cash back.

Good luck!!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

912142 said:


> As with anything you have a cooling down period - go back to her and request your refund on the basis that you contacted her within the cooling down period and that you had not been advised that the deposit was non refundable.
> 
> If she refuses take her to the small claims court - it will cost in the region of £65, however, she will have to cover your costs including attending court - if she is wise she won't go down that route.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Im liking this because I really hope that this stands for the OP..


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## michelleemmerson (Apr 26, 2011)

Just to update everyone. I have been and collected my £400 deposit back. It was cash. I had to sign to say I had received it back. Thank you for everyones support. I have learnt from this and I will never put a deposit down on a puppy again unless it is older and I have the full amount to pay for it. I would love a pug and hopefully in time when things are sorted in my life and the time is right I will get one.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2011)

michelleemmerson said:


> Just to update everyone. I have been and collected my £400 deposit back. It was cash. I had to sign to say I had received it back. Thank you for everyones support. I have learnt from this and I will never put a deposit down on a puppy again unless it is older and I have the full amount to pay for it. I would love a pug and hopefully in time when things are sorted in my life and the time is right I will get one.


Fantastic news! really pleased for you! One less worry on your plate!
Wonder what changed her mind??
And wishing you all the best, stick around! you may be getting a dog one day - who knows!
DT


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

thats great news. 

You will get there one day and you will find the right breeder and if you put a deposit down only give a small amount and get a reciept!! 

As DT says stick around we can help you in your journey you will learn loads here I still do and i have had dogs all my life! 

We can all even help point you in the direction of the right breeder when the time comes! 

xx


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I am really glad you got your money back  don't know what changed her mind, but don't think about that now.

when you are in a position to consider getting a pup, rescue might be an option for you.

If you decide to buy from a breeder, I am sure Jess can advise you on what health tests (if any) are required and where to go for good breeders.

Lessons to learn are - most breeders usually invite people to view their litters from around 4/5 weeks - and only at that point would they ask for a deposit if both you and they are happy - and they will give you a receipt.

I would, from what people have said on here, reasonably expect that deposit to be in the region of £100 - anything over £200 and I would be questioning why and possibly walking away.

As a general rule of thumb - it's not considered good practice to charge more for bitches than dogs, now there may be some breeds where this is the norm - I don't know (it isn't really in my breed) - again, hopefully that is something Jess can advise you on.

Hope you manage to get life back on track soon - it sounds like you've been through a rough time.


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## The3DChis (Jan 17, 2011)

Really pleased for you!
Defo stick around, and when you are ready am sure there will be loads of people here to advise you on getting your dog.
Wishing you all the best. x


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Thats Great news..


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

michelleemmerson said:


> Just to update everyone. I have been and collected my £400 deposit back. It was cash. I had to sign to say I had received it back. Thank you for everyones support. I have learnt from this and I will never put a deposit down on a puppy again unless it is older and I have the full amount to pay for it. I would love a pug and hopefully in time when things are sorted in my life and the time is right I will get one.


That is really really brilliant news, you must of tugged on her heart strings there  When you got for you puppy next time, dont put any deposit down until you see a puppy which is around 5 -6 weeks old, go view it first and only then pay the deposit, get a reciept for it too, signed and dated by the breeder. Dont hand over any more money until the day you go to pick the puppy up. Good luck for when you are ready to get your next puppy xxxx


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm so glad you managed to get your money back. I was quietly thinking that you wouldn't. 
Good luck for when you do decide to get yourself a puppy and remember always get a reciept when handing over cash.....for anything!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

michelleemmerson said:


> Just to update everyone. I have been and collected my £400 deposit back. It was cash. I had to sign to say I had received it back. Thank you for everyones support. I have learnt from this and I will never put a deposit down on a puppy again unless it is older and I have the full amount to pay for it. I would love a pug and hopefully in time when things are sorted in my life and the time is right I will get one.


So pleased for you  I was worried that you might not get it so well done to the breeder for refunding you :thumbsup:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I only just saw this and am very pleased the OP got her deposit back but feel very sorry for the breeder too. after all what is the point of a deposit if you have to pay it back - surely a deposit is non refundable whether it says it is or not. If you order something and pay a deposit on it you would expect to lose the deposit if you changed your mind - and in some cases you could be liable for the whole thing if your supplier had incurred costs.

As someone else said, the cooling off period is only for unsolicited approaches in your home where you pay a deposit on the spur of the moment then change your mind in the cold light of day.

I think it very unfair to slate the breeder, though it seems a very excessive deposit, but she has now done the right thing and taken pity on the OP and returned the money. Also, why on earth shouldnt she have a legal adviser. My solicitor doesnt charge anything for that type of advice and I am sure that many are the same.

As far as deposits on pups go, I am surprised that people on here dont expect to pay or charge a deposit at an early age. Surely if you want to be sure of a pup you need to put your money where your mouth is and if you want a specific sex or colour from a specific litter the sooner you commit the better. If it dies or has something wrong with it you would get your money back if that was agreed at the time. 

I looked at Toffee's litter when they were a few days old and I paid a deposit because there was only one pup in the litter I wanted and I didnt want someone else to come along and choose her.
Years ago I booked a pup from a litter and offered a deposit which was refused. I kept in contact with the breeder and when the time came to arrange to get the puppy I was told it was sold to someone else as I had not paid a deposit!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Blitz said:


> As far as deposits on pups go, I am surprised that people on here dont expect to pay or charge a deposit at an early age. Surely if you want to be sure of a pup you need to put your money where your mouth is and if you want a specific sex or colour from a specific litter the sooner you commit the better. If it dies or has something wrong with it you would get your money back if that was agreed at the time.


Because for the majority of people, while they want a specific colour or gender - personality is also important and I would NEVER commit a prospective owner at such an early stage of the litter.

If I have made a commitment to them on gender and colour - I will hold that commitment until they view the litter and we see how they interact with my dogs and the puppies - if I am not happy, or they are not happy - both of us can walk away from the agreement - and this is made VERY clear at the outset.

I would never expect someone to take a dog with a personality that doesn't fit into their lifestyle; pups within a litter can vary enormously.

Even when I've committed to having a pup - I've never been asked for a deposit - the only time ever was my last pup, and that was a more unusual situation than most of my 'normal' puppy purchases - and as I knew the breeder and was having breeder pick, I was more than happy to agree to this - but definitely the exception to the rule -

If I decided at 7/8 weeks that none of the pups in the litter were suitable for me, I want to retain the freedom to walk away - just as the breeder retains that right to change their mind.

There have been instances of breeders taking deposits prior to people viewing the litter (and no-one should be viewing the litter before 4 weeks) and then being surprised when they decide they don't want to sell that person a pup when the buyer becomes aggrressive and / or threatens them with legal action despite being given their deposit back.

When I breed a litter, they are MY pups, and I will decide who owns them - if I don't feel someone is a suitable owner, I reserve that right to say no, as does every breeder - the waters become much more muddied if you take early deposits based on colour and gender.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

For the most part, I decide who gets which pup in my litter. This is because some ES's can be bossy and 'worky', and if the owner is not prepared to work them and experienced with working breeds, they are gonna find a pup like that difficult. So looks are very secondary. Therefore no decisions are made until their personalities come out.


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

Excellent post Swarthy - how on earth can you choose a pup at just a few days old ?


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I'm not a huge fan of deposits and this story just confirms that. I don't think new owners should feel pressured to get a puppy if they change their minds because they won't get their deposit back. What's better; letting puppies go to people who don't really want them because they don't want to lose their deposit, or letting puppies go to people who truly want them because no money was involved at an early stage and therefore don't feel pressured? I know who I would rather let my puppies go to.


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## Bwy39 (Apr 12, 2011)

There are many good points made in this thread which has ended in joy for one of our members.

I like others, am happy to read a satisfactory outcome for the OP and I sincerely hope the OP has learned a number of lessons in life.

First not to pay for anything at all without a receipt this is vital.

Second never to paint everybody with the same brush just because of a bad experience. The world is full of good people, far more than there are shall we say, not so good.

I can not help but wonder what the thread would have been like if the breeder was a member and taking part in the discussion. Do you think she would have had our support as well ??

I feel we should all keep in mind that the deposit was never refundable that is the purpose of it but the breeder has done the decent thing under the circumstances and credit should be given for that.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2011)

Just read through the thread; I'm so glad you got your money back!

Though £400 was quite a lot for a deposit! I only had to pay £50 deposit for my £650 Irish Setter.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Certainly the OP should have been given a receipt and should have been told in advance that a deposit would be non-refundable. Certainly the deposit was high, and certainly I think it is a very bad idea to be taking deposits so early. But the drop-out rate for buyers, assuming dogs are anything like cats, is so high that I would not at all blame any breeder for wanting a non-refundable deposit. If she does not take a deposit she may well turn away other buyers and then find that the buyers she thought she had simply do not materialise.

Liz


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## Bwy39 (Apr 12, 2011)

lizward said:


> Certainly the OP should have been given a receipt and should have been told in advance that a deposit would be non-refundable. Certainly the deposit was high, and certainly I think it is a very bad idea to be taking deposits so early. But the drop-out rate for buyers, assuming dogs are anything like cats, is so high that I would not at all blame any breeder for wanting a non-refundable deposit. If she does not take a deposit she may well turn away other buyers and then find that the buyers she thought she had simply do not materialise.
> 
> Liz


This thread could go on for a long time yet.

I agree with the above in all respects but in saying so it seems we are heaping the blame on the breeder and I believe, right or wrong, that both have to share the blame equally.

We have just one side of the story here and it is just so wrong to judge on a one sided story.

How do we know the breeder did not say for example...."would you like a receipt" and was told it did not matter. We don't know do we.
The OP parted with a HUGE sum of money and did not ask for a receipt, something wrong there surely ?????????????????????

How do we know the buyer was not told it was not refundable....we don't know do we.

How do we know situation the buyer is in........we don't know do we .

We only have ONE side of a story so making a judgement is impossible so please lets stop blaming one or the other as we just do not know.

I am in no way casting any doubt on the character of the OP I am merely pointing out that we only have ONE side of a story so we can not judge or place blame.


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## gladass (Jan 6, 2011)

Bwy39 said:


> This thread could go on for a long time yet.
> 
> I agree with the above in all respects but in saying so it seems we are heaping the blame on the breeder and I believe, right or wrong, that both have to share the blame equally.
> 
> ...


I am in total agreement with your thinking. Wonder what the replies would havew been like if the Breeder had posted---
I accepted a deposit for a pup, lovely lady, spent a lot of time with her etc... and 2 days later she wanted her deposit back


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

lizward said:


> Certainly the OP should have been given a receipt and should have been told in advance that a deposit would be non-refundable. Certainly the deposit was high, and certainly I think it is a very bad idea to be taking deposits so early. But the drop-out rate for buyers, assuming dogs are anything like cats, is so high that I would not at all blame any breeder for wanting a non-refundable deposit. If she does not take a deposit she may well turn away other buyers and then find that the buyers she thought she had simply do not materialise.
> 
> Liz


I'm glad the OP has got her money back, however, I don't agree that a breeder should have to say a deposit is non-refundable that should be taken as a given. That is the whole point of giving a deposit. If deposits are refundable then there would be no point in asking for a deposit in the first place. Deposits are to secure a kitten or pup and meant to be kept by the breeder if the purchaser pulls out of the deal. It is compensation for the inconvenience the purchaser has caused.


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## kaisa624 (Mar 5, 2010)

I am glad about the OP getting her deposit back, however it was high.

We paid £150 deposit for Jojo, who was £550 all together, at 10 days old. We were offered it back at 4 and a half weeks, as she had passed away, but chose to take Holly instead, as the other bitch was taken. There were 3 bitches, and 1 dog, and the breeder knew we wanted a girl. They were going to run Holly along to see how she turned out, but we took her instead


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Bwy39 said:


> I am in no way casting any doubt on the character of the OP I am merely pointing out that we only have ONE side of a story so we can not judge or place blame.


I think for me (and I suspect a lot of others) there are two issues which as far as we know are facts - i.e. the enormous deposit - not something many breeders ask for - it's usually a relatively small proportion of the purchase price - the dogs and bitches being different prices - and the fact the deposits were taken so early - when there are few if any circumstances to justify it.

You are right we don't know anything about the breeder or the OP other than what they have shared with us - but there's no reason to believe the facts above are false - and all of them make many good breeders toes curl just a little bit too much 

I did make reference to the situation with the breeder not being clear - about them reading this thread AND being 100% clear of the facts earlier on in this thread - and I do agree that it can make for uncomfortable scenarios.

In some other forums such posts are deliberately put in a private area of the site away from non-members (and cannot be spidered by the search engines)


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Bwy39 said:


> This thread could go on for a long time yet.
> 
> I agree with the above in all respects but in saying so it seems we are heaping the blame on the breeder and I believe, right or wrong, that both have to share the blame equally.
> 
> ...


No one has said that it was entirely the breeders fault, most have pointed out that the OP perhaps should have researched a bit further. If she had posted on here she would undoubtedly have had numerous replies telling her that the pups were too young for visitors and the deposit was unreasonably large (for most breeders) and that would hopefully have set alarm bells ringing.

It is not the breeders fault that the OP situation has changed of course, and its not the OPs either. But a dog is not a car or something, a good breeder should build up a relationship with the potential owners and very often we end up making good friends with our puppy owners and we keep in touch with the pups throughout their lives. It is not something that you just sell and never think of again. Therefore, I do believe that it cant be dealt with the same way as a "normal" purchase and, in this situation, I dont know any breeders who would have held onto that deposit. Its not like the OP messed the breeder around and dragged it out for weeks before telling the breeder, making re-selling an issue. The OP notified the breeder within a couple of days and the pup has been re-sold already so, unless the breeder is purely thinking of the money, I dont see the reason _why_ they would feel they should keep the deposit?  I have had to return deposits in the past when potential owners have had to drop out for unforseeable reasons, thats just breeding for you, things change and i'd rather hand people their money back than try to force them into buying the pup (would never do that) or steal their money :blink:

The whole point of this forum is to give helpful opinion/advice based on the information given. It would not have been very useful if everyone refused to give that because the other person wasnt posting their side of it, no threads would get any replies if that were the case  The breeder has not been named in anyway, or even any info given that could identify them so no-one is judging them, just giving an opinion based on the info given by the OP which we have no choice but to trust. And if they say they have viewed a very young litter and handed over a very large deposit, as breeders many of us have posted to say that this is not the way things are usually done. And also to say that *we* would return the deposit in this situation, but that decision was ultimately the breeders and im glad they have returned the OPs money


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