# Panacur treatment, still some blood in stools



## jenna107 (Jul 10, 2013)

Hello again, as some of you may or may not have read I have had an on going issue with Vinny's runny stools. He has been to the vets regarding this, had fecal sample done, all negative, had bloods done, showing low titre level of corona virus (to cut a long story short).

Anyhow, last week he was on a 5 day treatment of Panacur which ended last Friday. From Saturday I have completely removed dry kibble altogether and I am feeding him Natures Menu Pouch food and some raw (chicken breast / wing no more than 20%), I am hoping to get him onto a complete raw diet soon but will probably post another thread on that. 

His stools have improved in the way of: he is not dribbling out of his bum now, I can actually pick him up, cuddle him etc and not be left with a wet fart on me :thumbsup:... also when he is in his litter tray and digging ready for his poopy he is not dribbling over the side or having lack of control. These improvements are a major breakthrough at the moment. However...there is still some fresh blood coming out in his stool and it looks quite mucousy at times. I am wondering if this is the aftermath of the Panacur treatment and there will still be (if any) any nasties detaching and coming out?

What do you guys think :confused1:?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> had fecal sample done, all negative


When you say _all_ negative what was tested for?


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## jenna107 (Jul 10, 2013)

havoc said:


> When you say _all_ negative what was tested for?


This is a type up of what the report looks like, I am not entirely sure what it has or has not tested, vets very vague!!

MICROBIOLOGY
SMALL ANIMAL FAECES

*Microscopical - No ova, larvae or protozoa found.
examination
Parasites: Zinc sulphate flotation with centrifugation.

*Salmonella - Salmonella spp NOT DETECTED
Campylobacter culture - Campylobacter spp NOT DETECTED

thats all it has on it...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Could it be the bone in the wings you are feeding him scratching the lining of his bowels.

When i fed nurturing by nature chicken mince it had lots of sharp bone in it and it was making the cats have a bit of blood in their poo.

May just be he needs longer to adjust to the new diet.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

I'd be very suspicious of TF here. It's very possible he also had concurrent Giardia ( a negative sample can occur in a positive animal) and if so the symptoms of which may have been allievated by the Panacur. If these persist I'd definitely be testing for the former.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I am not entirely sure what it has or has not tested, vets very vague!!


That is certainly an extremely limited lab report


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## jenna107 (Jul 10, 2013)

havoc said:


> That is certainly an extremely limited lab report


Tell me about it! I have requested the lab report for his bloods too but not received it yet!!


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Ive been at my vets recently with one of my girls - loose stools and some fresh blood/mucous - she also had a negative poop test, my vet thought her bowels were inflamed, and was talking along the lines of a novel protein diet. Have seen a big improvement in her after an oral course of anti biotics and removing one type of food from her food rotation (om nom nom, only new food over last month) It really could be one of many things you need to go back to your vet and discuss it further with him.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> she also had a negative poop test, my vet thought her bowels were inflamed


Negative for what though? Unless you know what they've tested for, and what they haven't then you can't know what's led to the inflamed bowels, they're a symptom not a cause.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

havoc said:


> Negative for what though? Unless you know what they've tested for, and what they haven't then you can't know what's led to the inflamed bowels, they're a symptom not a cause.


I did ask to see the test result and the list was huge - because my girl had vastly improved in the few days I was waiting for the test result I was am happy to accept what has been tested for so far is negative and that it may have been the change in food or a bacteria infection that responded to the antibiotics she was given - should her symptoms return I will be asking more questions - the OPs cat is still having problems which is why I suggested she return to the vet to discuss further what has been tested for and what hasnt.


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## jenna107 (Jul 10, 2013)

I'll see how he goes over the next 7 days and if it persists then ill make another appoinment at the vets


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## LDK1 (Oct 1, 2010)

jenna107 said:


> Hello again, as some of you may or may not have read I have had an on going issue with Vinny's runny stools. He has been to the vets regarding this, had fecal sample done, all negative, had bloods done, showing low titre level of corona virus (to cut a long story short).
> 
> Anyhow, last week he was on a 5 day treatment of Panacur which ended last Friday. From Saturday I have completely removed dry kibble altogether and I am feeding him Natures Menu Pouch food and some raw (chicken breast / wing no more than 20%), I am hoping to get him onto a complete raw diet soon but will probably post another thread on that.
> 
> ...


My Watson had Giardia sometime ago which presented with occasional bloody loose stools that got worse and escalated to bloody dire rear and vomiting.

Giardia (and probably TF) should be listed on the result sheets if tested.

Ideally three days of poo samples should be tested as Giardia doesn't always show up in a single day sample. Also, I have read that TF looks similar to Giardia under a microscope but the treatments are totally different so that might be worth checking out.

If it is Giardia, Panacur alone may not be enough to cure it. It may need to be given with a course of Metronidazole. Watson had Metronidazole before, during and after a course of Panacur.

It may well be worth doing a proper diet trial to see if your cat has an intolerance to certain proteins or other ingredients.

I have seen on here some people whose cats have had issues with Nature's Menu, as did my Watson, so personally I would use something else with the raw - preferebly a single source protein.


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## jenna107 (Jul 10, 2013)

LDK1 said:


> I have seen on here some people whose cats have had issues with Nature's Menu, as did my Watson, so personally I would use something else with the raw - preferebly a single source protein.


What food is a single source protein?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

NM is very rich for some cats, and will even give my healthy lot the squits, so would be well worth changing.

As for blood in poo, if the Panacur had worked, you would be seeing no blood, so I'd not be waiting another week personally. You're finding his stools firmer no doubt thanks to the raw in his diet, as it firms them up a treat.

TF will not be tested for unless specifically requested. You need to ask for the QPCR test as it's the most reliable. You also need to request a FULL fecal pannel. Collect a poo sample over a three day period and send that off. Some of these organisms are intermittent shedders which means that a single sample alone doesn't always showw them up.


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## LDK1 (Oct 1, 2010)

jenna107 said:


> What food is a single source protein?


Usually foods that are labelled as 'sensitive' have one protein source.

You may have to go further than a single protein, and find a 'novel' protein source that your cat has not tried before to see if it makes a difference.

I went for an easily available option from Zooplus which was Grau Gourmet:

Lamb and Rice, Turkey and Rice and Beef and Rice are all single source products (according to Hobbs). Wholegrain rice is not usually such an issue with intolerances as other grains - though not impossible of course.

Grau Gourmet Saver Pack 24 x 400g at zooplus

Ropocat do single source protein foods:

RopoCat | The Happy Kitty Company

There are others.

I will just say that if you go down a diet trial route it is imortant not to give any other foods or treats at the same time which could interfere with the process.

Once you find a product that works, stick with it for at least six to eight weeks before introducing another flavour.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

If it is giardia how long should the op's cat be on panacur for? and what dosage should it be given?

Op how much did you vet advise you to give?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Wouldn't it be prudent to rule out parasites first before going down the difficult route of food trials?


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## jenna107 (Jul 10, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> If it is giardia how long should the op's cat be on panacur for? and what dosage should it be given?
> 
> Op how much did you vet advise you to give?


The vet didn't advise, it was the lady from the shelter who advised. 1 graduation per day for 5 Days. Vet said there should be no worms or parasites because stool sample was negative, I have posted the lab report on here and it is very "basic" and also I felt brushed off by her saying there will be nothing going on in there because of it showing negative.


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## jenna107 (Jul 10, 2013)

Fresh update... Vinny has just done a poo, quite runny, slight "squirt" but no streaks of blood in it, very smelly and I had a good look through it :skep: wasn't pleasant! 

They just keep up guessing dont they....


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I guess its the paste the shelter were talking about


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## jenna107 (Jul 10, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> I guess its the paste the shelter were talking about


Sorry yes the panacur paste ( sorry missed that off )


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Well, the fact that they told you to give him it for five days, and not the three standard for worming, suggests to me that they do indeed know that there's "something" going on in there. Naughty, naughty shelter!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Fresh update... Vinny has just done a poo, quite runny, slight "squirt" but no streaks of blood in it, very smelly and I had a good look through it wasn't pleasant!


One of the features of TF is a very distinctive smell. The reason it isn't included in the diagnostic process is because it's impossible to describe. Apparently it is so awful it's a case of once smelled never forgotten


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> One of the features of TF is a very distinctive smell. The reason it isn't included in the diagnostic process is because it's impossible to describe. Apparently it is so awful it's a case of once smelled never forgotten


They say that about parvo in dogs too.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Found this, very good info.Giardia: How To Eliminate It In A Cattery Situation


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## LDK1 (Oct 1, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> If it is giardia how long should the op's cat be on panacur for? and what dosage should it be given?


My Watson was started on a course of Stomorgyl for 5 1/2 days before lab results were in. Also vit b injection and Lectade.

On testing positive for Giardia (which I had to ask them to test for) was given another 7 1/2 days of Stomorgyl plus 5 days of Panacur granules @1/2 sachet daily - he started to improve.

Then he was given a slightly reduced 4 day course of Stomorgyl, then a further reduced dosed for yet another 7 days - the vet said 'just to make sure'!

It never came back though!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

LDK1 said:


> My Watson was started on a course of Stomorgyl for 5 1/2 days before lab results were in. Also vit b injection and Lectade.
> 
> On testing positive for Giardia (which I had to ask them to test for) was given another 7 1/2 days of Stomorgyl plus 5 days of Panacur granules @1/2 sachet daily - he started to improve.
> 
> ...


wow sounds a bugger to treat.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Giardia is harder to treat because it encysts and survives outside the host for a long time so it's actually re-infestation you're treating. TF is much more fragile.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> Giardia is harder to treat because it encysts and survives outside the host for a long time so it's actually re-infestation you're treating. TF is much more fragile.


yes i read they can survive long periods in water,what about out of water? I also read to bath the cat to remove any on the fur. So whats the best thing to do to be sure?..treat for longer than the 7 days? What affect would that have on a cat?


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## impulce (Jan 9, 2009)

I just wanted to say I feel your pain!

I've posted my own thread further up, but I have 4 all with intermittent diarrhea and negative faecal tests. It's NOT diet related because nothing's changed and for them all to suddenly become intolerant to their food would be very unusual! 

All been on antibiotics, one been on two different types after it reoccurred. All fine in themselves and only going twice a day though, so I'm leaving it a few days before going back to vets to request a faecal test from samples over a longer period of time. From information on the Internet I've suspected giardia from the very beginning!


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## jenna107 (Jul 10, 2013)

impulce said:


> I just wanted to say I feel your pain!
> 
> I've posted my own thread further up, but I have 4 all with intermittent diarrhea and negative faecal tests. It's NOT diet related because nothing's changed and for them all to suddenly become intolerant to their food would be very unusual!
> 
> All been on antibiotics, one been on two different types after it reoccurred. All fine in themselves and only going twice a day though, so I'm leaving it a few days before going back to vets to request a faecal test from samples over a longer period of time. From information on the Internet I've suspected giardia from the very beginning!


Hi there, Vinnys had it ever since we got him (about 11 weeks we have had him now) he is now 19 weeks old. I too am off for the 6 weeks, I'm a teaching assistant. I have spent the whole of the holidays on "poo watch" I am starting to introduce some raw food to him and have took him off dry completely. Things are starting to firm slightly. It's a long process !


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