# Remote Spray Collar - Advice?



## alexpb22 (Jul 29, 2010)

I have just purchased a remote spray collar to try on my dog to stop her running off to see other dogs.

I know this isn't the most popular route but believe me I have been trying to deal with this for the last two years all with limited success. This has involved seeing 4 different trainers all with different positive training techniques and have been going to classes for the last year. The classes have really helped in that he is great with other dogs when he's amongst them but I can't shake this tendency to rush up to them. He does it far less than he used to but I really need to knock it on the head as he's been confined to a long leash for a long time now. If this doesn't work then he'll be back on the long line but I want to give it a go as other people have had success with this method.

Anyway I have the collar but was surprised and disapointed to see that there was absolutely no instructions in the pack other than for how to assemble it. I am surprised you could sell an item like this which requires specific timing without either a CD or a booklet explaining how to use it correctly.

My question is to people who have used it, if my dog goes to run off to see another dog do I spray just before they start to run or once they have started running. If they stare at the dog watching before running off to do I do it whilst staring? I don't want to get this wrong and have found little info on the net. If anyone knows of any instructional vids online then do let me know.
FYI this is for dogs that are further away so he shouldn't associate the spray with the dog and he won't see me doing it either. He does though do this sometimes a few feet from the dog. Can I still use the collar at this distance or is it too close?

Thanks very much.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

The reason there are no instructions is that the collar isn`t meant for this purpose. 
The spray acts as a distraction. So if she`s barking, or about to eat poo it might make her stop for a second so you can get your command Leave in. 
It won`t work to make her return to you. It simply doesn`t do that. 
The only way to train a dog to recall is persistence and habituation. I had an ex-hunting Hound from Greece. I worked on recall every single day for a year. At the end he got it - but only in certain places. I still knew his instincts would over-ride his training around game. So I kept him on a line around game.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Agree with ClaireandDaisy, unfortunately there is no quick fix to this type of behaviour.

How do you know he won't associate the spray with the other dog? If he is being sprayed when he sees the other dog or starts to run towards them then there is a good chance he will. This could then make him fearful or aggressive towards them which would alot harder to try & resolve.

I would ditch it if I were you & get some more training advice. What have you been doing so far? You say you have made progress so you are already doing something right 

I do understand how you feel regarding your dog running off as I recently created a thread regarding predatory chasing of animals & recived lots of good advice. Here is the link, there may be something beneficial to you in here as well http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/176658-controlling-predatory-chasing-anyone-been-course.html


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## grandad (Apr 14, 2011)

alexpb22 said:


> I have just purchased a remote spray collar to try on my dog to stop her running off to see other dogs.
> 
> I know this isn't the most popular route but believe me I have been trying to deal with this for the last two years all with limited success. This has involved seeing 4 different trainers all with different positive training techniques and have been going to classes for the last year. The classes have really helped in that he is great with other dogs when he's amongst them but I can't shake this tendency to rush up to them. He does it far less than he used to but I really need to knock it on the head as he's been confined to a long leash for a long time now. If this doesn't work then he'll be back on the long line but I want to give it a go as other people have had success with this method.
> 
> ...


See a trainer that knows what they are doing with this type of collar. I've never used one, but from what I have read you need to introduce the collar slowly and introduce a command that is associated with the collar and spray. You the handler, or the object, not want to be associated with the action of spraying, because it may induce a fear response. So for example you the dog may go off and you do oyur recall the dog ignores it so you spray the dog to distract it from what it is doing and then do the recall again an dit should respond.If you do not have a solid recall then it won't respond.if you do have a solid recall then why do oyu need a collar. Alternatively try training the stop whistle (before the collar) so you can stop the dog, get it to sit and then recall it or simply walk over to it and put the lead back on.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

The reason they dropped the instruction video is because it got the collars very bad publicity. Anyway the video below IS THE ORIGINAL INSTRUCTIONS WHICH CAME WITH THE MASTERPLUS.

If they work at all they work only by frightening the dog. Ignore the writing on it just watch the dogs reactions > including a very young puppy & what is probably fear urination in a German long haired pointer. Watch this & then its up to you.

‪The Masterplus, Fear Training Collar -‬‏ - YouTube


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

Grandad - They cannot be introduced slowly, what the official video instructions show is what you get (if you get one which actually works more then 1 oe 2 sprays).


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## grandad (Apr 14, 2011)

SleepyBones said:


> Grandad - They cannot be introduced slowly, what the official video instructions show is what you get (if you get one which actually works more then 1 oe 2 sprays).


What i mean't by slowly is let the dog get used to wearing the collar. Personally I'd go down a different route, but it sounds like the OP is getting frustrated with the current method they are using.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

.............


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## alexpb22 (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks for your posts so far. The reason why i.m trying this is because i have read a lot of posts on the internet where people have successfully used it for this problem and i have also met some people out on walks who have successfully used it. I know there isn't a quick fix which is why i've spent two years trying to sort this before resorting to a collar. I could forever consult trainers and forever spend hundreds of pounds for different techniques but there comes a point when you have to bite the bullet and give a less popular training technique a go along with other training techniques. I have no idea whether it will work and if it doesn't then i'll leave it at that but it has also been recommended to me by my current trainer as an option and so i will give it a go. I.m not using it for recall but only to break his fixation on his goal to then call and reward. I have researched it a lot before taking the step but i am confident in my decision and will use this in the short term along with my existing training. My dog is a 7 year old rescue so i have a lot of lack of training to un do.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> This has involved seeing 4 different trainers all with different positive training techniques


You seem to have put an awfull lot of time effort & not least money into all this, can you tell me how much the one to ones above cost & what part of the country as rates may vary a bit by region, your reply might help other posters, who may someday or now want to hire a one to one, consider how much they need to outlay, everyones on a houshold budget at varing levels of ability to pay, thanks.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

As suggested, have you tried whistle training? I've ben practising this for a few weeks now & it's going well. We've yet to nail it competely but we are making progress.

For distraction with Roxy, I've found that a squeaky tennis ball has been a real winner, I even managed to distarct her from starting to chase a hare last night which in a massive success. I'm not sure I would have been so successul if she had started the chase but my timing was spot on (for a change!) & it worked.


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## alexpb22 (Jul 29, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> You seem to have put an awfull lot of time effort & not least money into all this, can you tell me how much the one to ones above cost & what part of the country as rates may vary a bit by region, your reply might help other posters, who may someday or now want to hire a one to one, consider how much they need to outlay, everyones on a houshold budget at varing levels of ability to pay, thanks.


I have spent a lot of time and money investing in his rehabilitation and to be honest it's consumed my every day since I've had him. I long for one relaxing walk with him which is one of the reasons I wanted to get a dog. What I didn't expect was to spend my life trying to fix problems (there have been other things along the way lol) and that was after 1 years research into dogs before comitting to getting one.

Anyway that's off topic, I live in London so as you can imagine it's vey expensive. My first trainer's rate was £150 for 2 hours, the second one was £300 for several sessions, third was £160 for two hours and the fourth was £80 for one hour. They all used different techniques and some mutual techniques and all were recommended and very experienced. The classes I go to are one of a kind and are excellent and only cost £20 per class but aren't in London so it involves a two hour car journey there and two hours back once a week so once you've factored petrol in it's actually quite a lot.

The classes are great but the problem is that he is as good as gold at the classes and you'd hardly know he was there and the specific problem I want to adddress he doesn't display so I can't correct it. This is something he does very specifically when it's just me and him and one lone dog rather than a few. It's also what he does with dogs he doesn't know.

He has slowed his approach down but occasionally has a blip and it's for this that I want to use the collar.

Believe me the collar was (off-limits) as far as I was conerned but after all this time I have opened myself to it. Basically for every person that says it's worked, I find someone who says it doesn't so there is a 50/50 chance it could work for me. I have tried a lot of techniques and not so long ago this was considered a good method too so it's another to try and it just might work.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

C***st in heavens, I understand fully now where your coming from & the other side of the coin is that your dog has lost 2 years of his very short life stuck on a lead, I have no idea what breed it is but the majority of small dogs tend to live to about 14ish, medium to about 10 & with an unknown background maybe less, depending in whats happened to him in the past, but it means he's already spent most of his remaining years stuck on the end of a flaming lead unable to enjoy himslef as a dog.

As your in London I am prepared to show you how to use your collar, I will not charge anything except petrol costs or maybe you travell to near me (best) & I have experience of them with other people who were going to use theirs anyway >>>that does not mean I like or would ever recommend one, I would never do that<<<< but if your intent at using it then ok, up to you.

Memo - are you anywhere near trent park?


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

Can you please tell me how did you try teach your dog come back when is called?

I have lurcher and she is obsess with running, she has good recall but for calling her back I have (or for distracting her) less than 10-15 seconds. What am I doing with her? She is allowed off lead only in safe locations, far away from roads, I can't relax while I'm walking her so scanning surroundings is my full time job. 
Who is watching who during off lead walks? Is your dog checking with you or you walking alone and he is doing his businesses? How far on your dog best things to do/ best person to stick with list you are? How strong is bond between you two? 
And more important question. Why did you choose this dog?

Hmm... again it hits me. Why none one is worrying about good timing when spry collar is used? If you cannot call your dog in good time (when s/he's still directable)  how you can press button in good moment? Am I normal?


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> I have no idea what breed it is but the majority of small dogs tend to live to about 14ish, medium to about 10 & with an unknown background maybe less,


Tell this to my medium dog, she lived 18 y


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

Misunerstood post, irrelevant reply deleted


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> Is that to me?


Age of my dog yes  but only as a exception to the rule of span dogs life

The rest is for alexpb22


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

ur really lucky.


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> ur really lucky.


Yes I was lucky that she lived so long time and if not her illness probably she could live up to 20 y


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

alexpb22 said:


> I have spent a lot of time and money investing in his rehabilitation and to be honest it's consumed my every day since I've had him. I long for one relaxing walk with him which is one of the reasons I wanted to get a dog. What I didn't expect was to spend my life trying to fix problems (there have been other things along the way lol) and that was after 1 years research into dogs before comitting to getting one.
> 
> Anyway that's off topic, I live in London so as you can imagine it's vey expensive. My first trainer's rate was £150 for 2 hours, the second one was £300 for several sessions, third was £160 for two hours and the fourth was £80 for one hour. They all used different techniques and some mutual techniques and all were recommended and very experienced. The classes I go to are one of a kind and are excellent and only cost £20 per class but aren't in London so it involves a two hour car journey there and two hours back once a week so once you've factored petrol in it's actually quite a lot.
> 
> ...


Wow, a lot of money  
But I'm not surprised.

Can you clear up what training methods you have tried- I mean specific exercises? There's a lot of knowledge on this forum, so we can help offer alternatives too.

The thing about the spray is, it's very often short term. Not used correctly, dogs habituate to the spray (it's amazing how much pain, discomfort and pure annoyance dogs can put up with) making for a quick 'fix' which only lasts a short amount of time.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

With the guidance of a trainer the collar worked really well for us. I think i had to use it 3 maybe 4 times. Situation resolved.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Andromeda said:


> Why is no-one worrying about good timing when the spray-collar is used?
> If you cannot call your dog in good time (when s/he's still [directable], how can you can press the button
> with good timing?


good questions.

i would think that calling her while she's still responsive would interrupt her - catching her as she SEES the other dog 
& her tail jacks upward and ears pop forward, *-should-* get her off the relatively-distant dog & moving away from 
the dog, & toward U - at which point, a Super-Tug toy pulled out of a pocket & waved should get her back, pronto, 
for an enthusiastic game, & THEN... she can be taken on the long-line to *meet the other dog*.

why can't she wear a long-line *as a drag*, & when the majik-recipe of disastrous ingredients assembles, 
walk to the end of the drag, TREAD on it, pick it up & reel her in?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

alexpb22 said:


> I [bought] a remote-spray collar to try on my dog to stop her running off to see other dogs.
> 
> ...I've [dealt] with this for the last two years, all with limited success. ...[saw] 4 different trainers all with different positive-training techniques & ...classes for the last year.
> The classes ...really helped, ...he's great with other dogs when... amongst them but I can't shake this tendency to rush... to them.
> He does it far less than he used to...


1st Q: is this a SHE or a HE dog? U've used both. 


alexpb22 said:


> ... I really need to [stop the rushing], as he's been confined to a long leash for a long time...
> If this doesn't work... he'll be back on the long-line but I want to [try the spray-collar], as other people have
> had success with this method.


have U tried leaving the long-line on *as a drag*, for use as back-up when circumstances arise? 
a 30-foot dragging long-line should give U a very good option to nab the dog pretty quickly.


alexpb22 said:


> ...there [are] absolutely no instructions in the package, other than [assembly]. I am surprised you could sell
> an item like this, which requires specific timing, without either a CD or a booklet explaining how to use it correctly.


i'm not. :nonod: The dearth of instructions is just as obvious if i buy a choke-chain or prong-collar or slip-collar: 
THAT'S IT - the hardware is all i get. How i use it is left entirely to me, & my fertile imagination.


alexpb22 said:


> ...if my dog [runs] off to see another dog, do I spray just before *they* start to run or once *they've*
> started running[?]
> If *they* stare at the [other?] dog watching [her or him] before running off, do I do it whilst staring?


is THEY referring to Ur dog? [guessing.]

haven't a clue when the button should be pushed, but i want to point out that the *spray itself* is supposedly 
an aversive, IOW dogs don't 'like' this scent, & the stuff is exceedingly persistent - so the timing of the spray 
AS A SOUND may be as precise as possible, but the timing of the aversive-ODOR is extremely non-contingent.

the smell hangs in the air & clings to the dog for hours, to the dog's perception - most spray-collars use 
citronella, which is an essential oil & very potent, it can linger for days; dogs unlike humans do not habituate 
to odors [we stop smelling them at some point, due to olfactory fatigue] - so this becomes pervasive & is not 
limited to the time of application - it's just ever-present, in low or moderate or high concentrations. 


alexpb22 said:


> ...he shouldn't associate the spray with the dog & he won't see me doing it either.


we can never predict what a dog will associate any aversive or even a startle-reflex, with - dogs choose 
their own idiosyncratic *salient stimulus/ stimuli* & we only find out what they are, afterward - by observing 
the dog's behavior for clues to discover what the DOG thinks is the important predictor, expected association, etc.


alexpb22 said:


> He does... do this sometimes [while only] a few feet from the dog.
> Can I still use the collar at this distance or is it too close?


close to the *other dog*, both the sound of the spray AND the odor will be aversives - Ur dog may already stink 
of the citronella & be carrying a cloud of it along; adding a startling hiss like a scalded cat, at close-hand?

IMO that's a great way to trigger the other dog to bolt from Urs, snark at Ur dog in surprise, or otherwise 
react unhappily to the spray-sound &/or the aversive odor, or simply associate bad-things with Ur dog.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> most spray-collars use
> citronella, which is an essential oil & very potent, it can linger for days


Glad you mentioned that, I forgot to put some Material Safety Data Sheets links.

Material Safety Data Sheets 
http://www.bathbomb.biz/acatalog/MSDS/Essential_Oil_Citronella.pdf

Safety (MSDS) data for citronella oil

http://vaportek.com/pdfs/MSDSCitronella_70Jan11.pdf


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I don't see spray collars as a first resort training tool, but I used one in a similar situation to the OP, and it worked.

My rescue dog Ziggy used to run off when she saw/heard a football in use. This included invading team training sessions to a 2 year old kicking a ball with granny in the park. Not acceptable behaviour and could possibly have resulted in prosecution under DDA if the granny thought the dog galloping towards the toddler at full speed was going for the kid, not the ball. Also, a young collie using the same park had a similar football fetish, ran into the road when she saw one and ended up losing a leg when a car hit her.

I think Ziggy had enjoyed playing football in her previous home, and she can be obsessive and very persistent! After trying to desensitise her/ train her for 4 years with no success, I got a spray collar (also the Masterplus) with the unscented spray. As she started running towards a football game, I sprayed her. She was stopped in her tracks and came back. It only took a few sprays and she was avoiding the situation, looking away and circling wide round people playing football.

OK, I know she was upset/scared/stressed but it sorted out a problem that was making taking her out end in conflict. She stopped running at footballs, I stopped getting angry with her and our relationship improved. The effects have lasted well (2 -3 years) and she still is mainly OK around footballs even without the collar. Sometimes has a little run towards them but will come back when called. 

So timing is very important. Don't spray if your dog is near anything they could associate with the spray - other dogs, people. Spray as the dog starts to run away from you, fuss and reward when they come back. Use the unscented fluid, not the citronella for the reasons given above. All the dog gets is a cold wet woosh under the chin. Works better on sensitive dogs, less well or not at all on headstrong ones (use in conjunction with a long line till you see how your dog reacts). Should never be used on a fearful dog.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> The reason they dropped the instruction video is because it got the collars very bad publicity. Anyway the video below IS THE ORIGINAL INSTRUCTIONS WHICH CAME WITH THE MASTERPLUS.
> 
> If they work at all they work only by frightening the dog. Ignore the writing on it just watch the dogs reactions > including a very young puppy & what is probably fear urination in a German long haired pointer. Watch this & then its up to you.
> 
> ‪The Masterplus, Fear Training Collar -‬‏ - YouTube





SleepyBones said:


> C***st in heavens, I understand fully now where your coming from & the other side of the coin is that your dog has lost 2 years of his very short life stuck on a lead, I have no idea what breed it is but the majority of small dogs tend to live to about 14ish, medium to about 10 & with an unknown background maybe less, depending in whats happened to him in the past, but it means he's already spent most of his remaining years stuck on the end of a flaming lead unable to enjoy himslef as a dog.
> 
> As your in London I am prepared to show you how to use your collar, I will not charge anything except petrol costs or maybe you travell to near me (best) & I have experience of them with other people who were going to use theirs anyway >>>that does not mean I like or would ever recommend one, I would never do that<<<< but if your intent at using it then ok, up to you.
> 
> Memo - are you anywhere near trent park?


In your first post you say that they if they work at all it is only by frightening the dog, and in your next one above you are offering to show her how it works. Isn't that something of a contradiction, or are you planning on teaching her about other sorts of collars?

OP have you tried whistle training? Associating a whistle with a really tasty treat, something the dog won't get at any other time. Dogs usually love chicken pieces, cheese, pieces of baked liver or liver cake. Mine will do almost anything for liver cake.

Once they know whistle = treat, they usually come back when you blow your whistle. Of course it all depends on how food orientated your dog is. What breed is he or she? Is she a breed that has a high prey drive?

There is a sticky on this forum about coping with a dog who is obsessed with other dogs. I should try reading that first.

I was advised to use one of these spray collars to stop Ferdie from humping everything in sight. I didn't know any better then and put the spray behind his neck. It wasn't till I joined this forum that I discovered it is supposed to go at the front so that the spray goes up his nose. I was appalled and glad I had got it wrong, even if it was a waste of £80.


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