# concerned over vaccine



## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Ok, so i have been told by a vet, owner of one of my kittens, that they are surprised my vets still use Purevax vaccine as this offers no protection to kittens and is a waste of money.

Interested to know other breeders thoughts and what vaccine is used at 9 weeks old please.

Sadly i have contacted both veterinary surgeries near to me and both only use Purevax.

Purevax "highly discredited" is the words used so obviously i am now concerned my special kittens are not covered for illnesses, although none have been ill.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

worrying - I will have to check up to see what mine uses


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Purevax is a Homopathy vaccine, not sure what to do now.
The vet who has taken one of my kittens has said he is now going to restart vaccinations using another vaccine, i will ask what vaccine he intends to use.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

im sure my vet uses that vaccine :001_huh:


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Who told you that, Catcoonz? Purevax is a pretty standard, traditional type vaccine used by many vets.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

My coonies have had this too , not sure about molly ( Sara has just posted tho) lets not panic ...... call me a cynic , could this possibly be scaremongering .. CC has your vet , given you solid proof ? .. My girls are all ok .... jesus it's a bliddy minefield with what's right and what's wrong ....


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

A new kitten owner who is a vet himself and the wife is a vet nurse, they called me today to tell me.

All vets near me uses Purevax.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I didn't know vets used homeopathy vaccines, I will check mine now too,
Mine are Novibac Tricat, , except one of them is just numbers


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I didnt know Purevax was a homopathy vaccine, its the vaccine vets in my area use so i didnt question anything.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

the manufacturers website doesn't mention anything about it being homeopathic
PUREVAX®
I can't see why it would be ineffective


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

lymorelynn said:


> the manufacturers website doesn't mention anything about it being homeopathic
> PUREVAX®
> I can't see why it would be ineffective


It actually says on that web page 'modified live virus'. I don't know what book that vet is reading from, Catzoonz!


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Novibac Tricat and Purevax are used by most vets I have ever used in 20 years of vaccinating kittens, the only difference I am actually aware of is that Tricat is a live vaccine and Purevax is a modified one....that and the fact that Tricat is routinely stocked all the time at my vets surgery but Purevax I have to order in in batches of ten which sometimes means not all are used and have to be fridged for me at the vets.

I don't believe the information given about Purevax being discredited is correct at all or has any basis in fact. Could you maybe ask for an article or reference to research showing this???


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> the only difference I am actually aware of is that Tricat is a live vaccine and Purevax is a modified one....


Purevax contains live (modified), killed (inactivated) and recombinant FeLV vaccines. It's because of this mixture that I don't use it but until and unless I see proper evidence that it has been 'discredited' then I'll reckon that vet is talking out of the wrong hole.

I won't sell to vets or vet nurses. Every friend who has done has had nothing but trouble and I've taken note. They bring enormous pressure to take the kitten very young and do the vaccinations themselves and want a hefty discount for doing so. They claim a 'professional' knowledge and I've even known them try to insist a breeder feeds kittens on whatever they happen to sell.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Havoc, this is exactly how the vet and vet nurse wanted things.
I got told never to feed raw but dry food is a better food as it may avoid dental issues later, before i would have believed this but not now.

They didnt want vaccinations to be done in the first place, neither microchip, they wanted the kitten at 9 weeks old, said they will choose their own vaccine, microchip at the time of neutering, neutering to be taken place at 6 months and not before due to kittens going through enough with vaccines.

Thankyou for you all putting my mind at rest regarding Purevax, i did email to ask for research based on what they told me, reply was this is how we do it at our veterinary practise.

Learnt now to avoid vet sales, it appears to be their way and no other way is good enough.

I have been informed by the owner to ask new owners what vaccine they would prefer rather than purevax, i tried to explain i have 3 vets near me who all do purevax, no point in offering a vaccine i cant do.

I do have an email but cant copy and paste so will write this out word for word.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I wish I could say your experience is atypical but it isn't. I've had novice breeder on the phone in an absolute panic after a kitten visit from someone who turns out to be a vet. I used to advise the breeder to just hold their ground but now I suggest they return any deposit and save themselves further hassle.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Reply received after i asked for research proof.

We understand that XXXX (X=Kittens name) has been vaccinated using a homeopathic remedy purevax. Homeopathy is widely discredited. Given the high-end service you provide in breeding/selling pedigree kittens it seems unusual that said kittens would be sold with vaccinations that provide no protection whatsoever.
While this is, of course, your choice, it should probably be made more clear that this is the case that it is the choice of those who purchase your kittens to have to repeat vaccinations with mainstream vaccines with proven efficacy.

We would always recommend vaccination using Licensed Veterinary Products and will be pursuing vaccinations for XXXX.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

catcoonz said:


> Reply received after i asked for research proof.
> 
> We understand that XXXX (X=Kittens name) has been vaccinated using a homeopathic remedy purevax. Homeopathy is widely discredited. Given the high-end service you provide in breeding/selling pedigree kittens it seems unusual that said kittens would be sold with vaccinations that provide no protection whatsoever.
> While this is, of course, your choice, it should probably be made more clear that this is the case that it is the choice of those who purchase your kittens to have to repeat vaccinations with mainstream vaccines with proven efficacy.
> ...


How peculiar. Leaves you wondering if the person really IS a vet.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I'd answer them with the following

Thank you for your email. The information and datasheet for Purevax can be found here

NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Purevax RCPCh FeLV lyophilisate and solvent for suspension for injection - Introduction

I am surprised that as a vet you are not aware of NOAH as a site to check for all licensed veterinary products. I will forward your email to both Merial and the vet who vaccinated my kittens for their comments. I'm sure they will be concerned to hear of your claims.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> How peculiar. Leaves you wondering if the person really IS a vet.


Doesn't it just


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Might be worth a quick check here
Check the Register/List - RCVS


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Thankyou Havoc. 
They are listed as registered on that site, 14/05/2010.

Reply from the email i sent which you kindly wrote for me was " i will check to see which vaccine we use", now i would have thought they would already know this information.

Also they dont recommend Leukemia vaccine until one year old as young kittens can have a reaction to other vaccines.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I talked to my vet today about this CC and she was flummoxed that someone would think that Purevax was no good, and now seeing that they think that it is homeopathic I think that they must have got their wires crossed! 

She wanted to see the research and if they provide any would be very interested in seeing it - also said it was very irresponsible of a vet to say such things.

Mine have just been vaccinated with Purevax too.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> They are listed as registered on that site, 14/05/2010.


In which case I'd get together all the emails from them regarding their outrageous comments and forward them to Merial along with details of their status as vets. What they've just done is probably defamatory.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Thankyou Spid, if i get anything i will forward to you so you can pass to your vet.
My own vet also said the same as your vet, Purevax is fine and has taken the name and telephone number of the kitten owner.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> My own vet also said the same as your vet, Purevax is fine and has taken the name and telephone number of the kitten owner


I'm not surprised. They've called your vet's professional competence into question.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

My vet - said it was slander on all the other vets really - she was quite cross; she wanted his name and number too.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm afraid I have a really strong feeling that the emails from this kitten buyer regarding Purevax were the groundwork being laid for a scam. The VAST majority of cat owners have no idea what vaccine their vet uses and if another vet told them it was no good they'd believe it. People want to believe a professional. The next stage would probably be a demand for a partial refund because of the supposed need to revaccinate - plus a bit for the mental anguish of course  The outrageous claims would not stand up to scrutiny but then the breeder isn't expected to let it get that far. They are meant to pay up quickly to make everything go away. In this particular case the buyer happens to be a vet and thinks abusing this position will help intimidate the breeder. Don't let it!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

wow! a lot to mull over, but I very much doubt a vet can use a homeopathy vac?

I wonder why the vet would say that?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

They havent as yet asked for a refund on vaccinations but im ready if they do.
They checked the vaccination card before paying the balance and taking the kitten, if they do ask, i will politely point out this is the safe vaccine my vet uses and if its not a licensed veterinary product and no good then they will need to put this in writing to my own vet.

As it happens its been 3 and a half weeks since taking the kitten with no mention of vaccinations before this time.

I know my vet is going to contact this vet at the practise regarding the matter plus he also now has a copy of the email so he knows exactly what has been written.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Good. It's a shame in a way that they are now alerted and should cease. It would have been great if it could have been played through with the police and the RCVS. Could have seen the con artists charged with attempting to obtain money by deception. It would have been a no win situation for them. If they'd claimed they truly believed Purevax was a homeopathic vaccine it would have been a defence of sorts for any criminal charge but would have proved incompetence as vets so the RCVS would have had them.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> They havent as yet asked for a refund on vaccinations but im ready if they do.


Don't rush to reply if they do Catcoonz. I can't believe they will be stupid enough to continue this charade but there really is no accounting for arrogance sometimes. If they come back to you at all come on here first.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I expect in 6 months to a years time they will come back and blame EN next.
Glad Purevax is ok as i will have kittens in 5 weeks having this vaccine so i can be confident this vaccine is a safe and well used vaccination.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

havoc said:


> Don't rush to reply if they do Catcoonz. I can't believe they will be stupid enough to continue this charade but there really is no accounting for arrogance sometimes. If they come back to you at all come on here first.


Thankyou  any replies i receive i will post to ask for advise before replying to them.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I expect in 6 months to a years time they will come back and blame EN next.
> Glad Purevax is ok


All of which they knew before they took the kitten. If I'm right it wouldn't matter what it was, they intended to get a 'cheap' kitten from the start. Cons work when people keep quiet and they were relying on you being intimidated by them being vets. They expected you to be ignorant and afraid of their 'expert' status.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Funny you should say that as at the time of viewing i didnt know they was vets, it was only the way they inspected my queen and the kitten that i asked if he was a vet, where i was then told yes but we didnt say in the telephone enquiry as some breeders get funny about our profession, my reply was i have nothing to hide you can inspect all my queens if you wish.

Hindsight i should have said i dont sell to vets but my mind just clicked over to well the kitten will have the best possible home with them being a vet and vet nurse.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> Funny you should say that as at the time of viewing i didnt know they was vets, it was only the way they inspected my queen and the kitten that i asked if he was a vet, where i was then told yes but we didnt say in the telephone enquiry as some breeders get funny about our profession, my reply was i have nothing to hide you can inspect all my queens if you wish.
> 
> *Hindsight i should have said i dont sell to vets but my mind just clicked over to well the kitten will have the best possible home with them being a vet and vet nurse.*


this is exactly what i would have thought too. you learn something new everyday though


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Not all vets are like this, my other kitten went to a vet from the same litter and they was really happy i EN the kittens and no mention of vaccinations, they are so happy they wish for another kitten.

Guess there is always one to abuse the profession and use it in their power.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Guess there is always one to abuse the profession and use it in their power.


There are the same proportion of dishonest people and nutters in every walk of life. The last time I had real involvement in such a scam it was a solicitor. They didn't get away with it either


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> i asked if he was a vet, where i was then told yes but we didnt say in the telephone enquiry as some breeders get funny about our profession,


Do you suppose that just maybe you weren't the first place they'd tried


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Such a shame you couldn't get your kitten back ..... Just goes to show , when you think your baby is going to a respectable home , with professionals , who are in the business of ( supposedly) having animals interests at heart , then they churn this out... big eye opener .... Awful CC truly shocking behaviour imo... Jesus what else might they possibly get up too


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

If im honest i know there was the same colour kittens nearer their home but i just felt honoured they chose me, didnt really think about any of this until i received the telephone call yesterday then the penny dropped.

I wouldnt take on a solicitor but then i have no clue to anything, just the word solicitor means to me they know court procedures and that would scare me.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Don't ever be intimidated by somebody's job or title. A con artist is a con artist and the scum of the earth.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

tincan said:


> Such a shame you couldn't get your kitten back ..... Just goes to show , when you think your baby is going to a respectable home , with professionals , who are in the business of ( supposedly) having animals interests at heart , then they churn this out... big eye opener .... Awful CC truly shocking behaviour imo... Jesus what else might they possibly get up too


I am just glad i didnt back down on EN but what i was told in conversation did worry me alot whilst they was at the vets but with this forum i was told EN is fine and it is, kittens came home bouncing and playful.

The other vet family are really nice, sends me updates every other day and really happy but i must admit this has put me off.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

If these troublemakers attempt to phone you again do not get into any discussion with them. Everything in writing. If they try to get you talking say 'hold on a moment, I need to set the record function on this phone'. Whether or not you have such a thing it can work wonders  Don't believe any rubbish they spout about your right to record the conversation - you can.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

It would appear that the email received was taken out of context.
There was no need to contact my own vet to ask questions on this as they was only trying to help me for the future.

Well i dont think it was taken out of context at all, think the surprise conversation with the vet probably gave them more information than they currently had.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

How do you take a WHOLE email out of context?  Basically they told you that the vacs you gave were no good when in fact they were fine. Now they are back peddling as you have researched and told them they were wrong. I feel Havoc may be right and they were going to try to get you to pay for the new jabs (which would never have happened) if not more.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> It would appear that the email received was taken out of context.
> There was no need to contact my own vet to ask questions on this as they was only trying to help me for the future.


:lol: Yeah, that would be it, the old 'context' thing.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Well today i have received an email with an apology regarding PureVax from this person.

Purevax is a good vaccine which does cover kittens, however, i do not remember saying Purevax did not give any protection, i was mislead and thought it was you that said this......... so, i forwarded them the email saved.

Reply then was, I apologise greatly do continue to use purevax as a protective cover for your kittens, sorry for all the concerns and worries i have caused you.

So there we go, an apology and Purevax is a great protective vaccine, somehow i think that email was harder for them to send admiting they was infact wrong, but an apology anyway so i am now happy.


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Well done on not caving in! Our vets use Purevax.

I think there are a few vets who keep an eye purely on profit. A few years ago I took a litter of kittens for their second vaccination - unfortunately due to the fact I don't drive and had to wait for my OH's shifts to end I was a day late taking them in (actually only 9 hours if being pedantic) - and I did check with the vet if this would be a problem and they said no, not at all.

I always advise my kitten owners to take their new babies for a check up within 7 days of them getting them to register them with their own vets and to be happy in their own mind the kitten is healthy. One owner's vet told her the kitten's vaccinations would have to be done all over again as I had let the second vac go over late!!!!! I was incandescent! He really did put a lot of pressure on her to have them re-done but thankfully she resisted.

I spoke to my vet and he was very annoyed and offered to speak to the owner's vet and put that guy straight. Also I did ring another practice - just to ensure I wasn't getting too biased an opinion, and they said they wouldn't consider it an issue if the second vac was done one day later. I did try to contact Merial (twice) but they never got back to me - which I thought was poor.

I think the owner's vet was just after the money for a set of vaccinations.

Anyway I am so glad you stood your ground. Good on ya!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Hahahahaha - great back peddling on that vets behalf - shows he knows he was wrong really.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> just to ensure I wasn't getting too biased an opinion, and they said they wouldn't consider it an issue if the second vac was done one day later


Especially since the datasheets tend to say the second one should be done between 3 and 4 weeks after the first


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

havoc said:


> The last time I had real involvement in such a scam it was a solicitor. They didn't get away with it either


Oh great, I had just read this few days ago, and now I've got a message from a solicitor wanting a kitten..  (They didn't tell me, I googled them. )


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