# Help - is my dog "oversocialized"???



## ckwemartin (Aug 8, 2010)

So our mixed breed girl (looks sort of like a border collie) is 9 months old and is the sweetest, most fun-loving dog we could ever have hoped for. We got her at about 12 weeks and followed all the advice we heard about early socialization. We bombarded her with people and animals to the extent possible...

...and I think we may have created an overly happy monster!

I've just started a week ago to really (no, this time I mean it) enforce discipline on our walks. They have never been bad, but she always wanted to lead and always walked on a taut leash (but not pulling too horribly). But the worst part was/is when any living creature (or even inanimate object that looks even remotely alive when blowing in the wind) is in her field of vision, it's like she's experienced the feeling fun for the first time in her life. She bucks like a bronco and jumps and contorts to go play with other dogs, kids, ladies, men...pretty much everyone (except one really slow-moving, very old lady kind of weirded her out a bit the other day).

So a week ago I put my foot down...no more embarrassing walks. I started enforcing the no-taut-leash and no-walking-ahead rules. I've used treats to keep her attention on me and when nobody's around, it's worked like a MIRACLE. Loose leash almost the entire way. She loses patience after about a 15-minute walk, but she's taking to the loose leash really, really well...until...

...the dreaded dog/kid/lady/whatever passes by. She still goes absolutely berzerk! The treats (good liver treats) don't even come close to comparing to the chance to play with another person or dog. I've tried every combination of firmness, cheekiness, treats, fast-walking, standing still, hollaring, etc. Absolutely nothing comes even close to tearing her attention from the nirvana that awaits her if she can pull hard enough to make contact.

And she gets all sorts of play-time throughout the day at home, so it's definitely not like she's neglected and fun-starved.

So have we created a monster? I sometimes halfway wish that she didn't even like other dogs. At least I could have a normal walk with her. Other than this, she's perfect. Never barks or nips. LOVES our daughters (ok, she loves anything that breathes). Virtually perfect other than this.

Do I just have to wait for it to wear off as she gets older? Or maybe I should just bring a doggie blindfold and quickly cover her eyes before she sees any pending fun?

Hoping someone can help....sorry so long.


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## k4r4 (Sep 20, 2009)

sorry nothing i can really say that would help but didn't want to read and run.

will ask though does she get attention every time someone walks past her and comes in the house?


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## nfp20 (Jun 29, 2010)

:lol: practise your sit/leave and down stays. Use a higher value treat than you would for a normal walk to keep attention. You can body block if you think your losing her attention lots of praise when she focuses on you.

I'm not sure you can do too much socialising its how you manage it. Better to have a nicely socialised dog and then put the breaks on than one thats poorly socialised.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

No such thing as 'oversocialised'  Socialisation is not just exposing the dog to lots of different situations - its about developing positive associations and learning how to cope and behave in lots of situations.

The bit that is most often missed out is teaching impulse control in social situations - this is one of the most important bits.

Practice loose leash walking exercises in low distraction situations with a high rate of reinforcement so that she doesn't get bored.
If she can't/won't take treats she is over threshold.

Your dog is also a teenager, so just like human adolescents, her ability to inhibit her behaviour is reduced.
Practice lots of impulse control exercises with her; more here: Calming Exercises for Cerrrraaaazzzzzy Canines: Good Things Come to Calm Dogs « pawsitive dogs

Use these exercises to teach loose leash walking too. For example, start working in the kitchen (low distraction) and have her on leash. Take her favourite toy or treats and toss them just out of reach. Allow her to go to the end of the leash but don't let her have access to the yummies unless the leash loosens.
This can be built on by tossing the yummies further out of reach so that she has to take more and more steps on a loose leash.
This can be taken on the road too - wait for calm, loose leash behaviour before allowing her access to sniffing, the park, the people, the dogs whatever.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

ckwemartin said:


> *I sometimes halfway wish that she didn't even like other dogs. At least I could have a normal walk with her.*


Ahah trust me, having a dog that doesn't like other dogs, normal walks don't happen.


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## flosskins (Jan 27, 2010)

no advise but my dog is a bit like this, and especially when she's off the lead the people that stop to give her a fuss when i'm calling her back DO NOT HELP!!!! especially the one man near us who likes to give all of the dogs that come up to him treats, no chance is she going to leave him alone!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

No you haven't created a monster, she sounds wonderful.
Will she go down on command? If so, just ask her to go down until the children, dog walker, etc. have gone pass you and then praise and titbit.
When my sister and I go for long walks together, we run up to eight collies loose and when someone approaches we just drop them all until 'job public' have gone by. They are so used to it they more or less drop themselves.


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## kcobb (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm VERY new to this but something I do...

I try to look for the distraction before my dog sees it.
If I do see the distraction before General (my dog) does, I call his name, he looks at me I give him a click with a clicker and a treat.

We walk a little further, I do it again.
And again. And again.

When he finally sees the dog/person/whatever he still gruffs and barks a bit and sometimes not at all but the entire time I still call his name and only give him a click and a treat when he looks at me.

Try getting her attention before she sees this distraction.
And continue to do so even when she she is distracted.


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## BoxerRoxy (Aug 12, 2010)

My boxer is exactly like this and i thought that she was, not oversocialised but thought the classes may have done more damge than good.... however when im on a walk my dog will be walking perfect then see someone and get excited and start pulling cos she forgets what shes supposed to be doing... a few things i try are
crossing over for example if its a mum with a few crazy kisds etc and you know shes going to go nuts...
if its one person i talk to her and make sure the person walks past me so that im in the middle of them and the dog.... 
or i try getting her to sit and stay if she pulls really bad... 
they do work try de sensitizing her like walk past one person who isnt bothered by the dog...ie doesnt want to fuss her and then as she gets better try walking past the other things that get her worked up.... 
its a long ongoing process like but youll get there my roxy gets better with it all the time.... 
ohhh and another thing i find is that people always fuss her or ask to stroke her.. i used to say yes all the time or not say anything but if they fuss her wihtout asking i now say 'please dont do that' and walk away.... or if people aske to stroke her i just say that shes a fussy dog and gets too excited and id rather they didnt.... shell get better if you stick at it im sure...:thumbup:


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

ckwemartin said:


> ...the dreaded dog/kid/lady/whatever passes by. She still goes absolutely berzerk! The treats (good liver treats) don't even come close to comparing to the chance to play with another person or dog. I've tried every combination of firmness, cheekiness, treats, fast-walking, standing still, hollaring, etc. Absolutely nothing comes even close to tearing her attention from the nirvana that awaits her if she can pull hard enough to make contact.


Sounds like you're doing great. Your eyesight is most likely sharper at range than your dog. Why not take advantage of that, and turn away, go slowly, and then turn so there's only a few seconds before you pass the "Bandit" with dogs seperated by the owners?

The idea is to manage the excitement level of your dog, gradually allowing more anticipation time as she becomes accustomed to the new regime?

Pulling habits require consistency to break, changing direction and stopping, avoid rewarding the behaviour and actually effectively punish it by delaying the arrival at the eagerly anticipated destination.

I have had similar issues over treats in popular dog walking park, changing route and time slightly solved it. Seems much easier to alter dog behaviour than other dog owner's :frown:

If the Border Collie genes are well expressed, you can probably focus your dog on some toy and play games on long leash line in open spaces, and she'll give it eye and become less interested in other dogs & people, when the buzz of "working" in your chosen activity is present.

Perhaps a good local dog training club with basic obedience class for older dogs, would help as the dogs are forbidden to approach/greet others, but obviously are still interested and curious about each other, when not pre-occupied by owners during an exercise.


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## ckwemartin (Aug 8, 2010)

k4r4 said:


> ...does she get attention every time someone walks past her and comes in the house?


She's pretty much never ignored. Every time someone comes home (while she's home) or whenever she comes back from a "walk" (or battle to the death as I refer to it), she gets loads of attention. That's what makes the walks so embarrassing...passersby probably think she never gets any attention and she gets a ton of it.


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## ckwemartin (Aug 8, 2010)

nfp20 said:


> :...Use a higher value treat than you would for a normal walk to keep attention. You can body block if you think your losing her attention lots of praise when she focuses on you.


I think the only "treat" of higher value to her would be to put another dog closer to her than the one she's pulling at to play with. I constantly body-block her to no avail. I'll sometimes even squat down and force her to look at me and she can't even do it for 1/2 second when the "fun" is nearby.

It seems that the "safety zone" is about 30 feet. If "fun" comes inside that distance, she goes bonkers. Outside that, it's still embarrassing, but sort of manageable...I can usually make my voice go all girlie and playful sounding and make all sorts of dorky sounds and stuff until we get past the distraction. After that, she goes back to Ms. Perfect dog.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

ckwemartin said:


> She's pretty much never ignored. Every time someone comes home (while she's home) or whenever she comes back from a "walk" (or battle to the death as I refer to it), she gets loads of attention. That's what makes the walks so embarrassing...passersby probably think she never gets any attention and she gets a ton of it.


Perhaps toning the greetings down, giving attention on your terms to a calm dog would help then. That develops impulse control in a social situation.

May be once over-ecitement has set in, it is very difficult to distract and regain control of the situation, so avoiding that hyper state and only gradually increasing the stimulus, is the key. If you act excited and do things that reinforce her excitement, around the strangers and other dogs, she's going to be validated that these encounters are a big deal, rather than small beer.


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## ckwemartin (Aug 8, 2010)

tripod said:


> ...Practice loose leash walking exercises in low distraction situations with a high rate of reinforcement so that she doesn't get bored. If she can't/won't take treats she is over threshold.


That's great advice Anne. That's actually the only thing working...and she's doing great with it when nobody's around. We've only been at it for a week and for at least 10-15 minutes, her attention span is good and she loose-leash walks really well...and the distance she can go without me reminding her (with a treat) to stay with me gets further and further.



tripod said:


> Your dog is also a teenager, so just like human adolescents, her ability to inhibit her behaviour is reduced.


Maybe I should just take away her dessert and tell her she can't go on YouTube for a week. That works great with our teenager.



tripod said:


> Use these exercises to teach loose leash walking too. For example, start working in the kitchen (low distraction) and have her on leash. Take her favourite toy or treats and toss them just out of reach. Allow her to go to the end of the leash but don't let her have access to the yummies unless the leash loosens.
> This can be built on by tossing the yummies further out of reach so that she has to take more and more steps on a loose leash.
> This can be taken on the road too - wait for calm, loose leash behaviour before allowing her access to sniffing, the park, the people, the dogs whatever.


I think that's really good advice. We'll keep working with this.


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## ckwemartin (Aug 8, 2010)

flosskins said:


> no advise but my dog is a bit like this, and especially when she's off the lead the people that stop to give her a fuss when i'm calling her back DO NOT HELP!!!! especially the one man near us who likes to give all of the dogs that come up to him treats, no chance is she going to leave him alone!


I'm glad I'm not the only one this happens to. I brought a long stick with me on a recent walk, just to hold down toward the ground in front of her nose to look like a visual barrier so she could learn to stay even with or behind me. But boy was I tempted to use it on some of the goofballs who call out to our dog "oh hey you cutie...look how cute you are...come over her...can I please pet her". Sheesh...they don't help at all.


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## ckwemartin (Aug 8, 2010)

Twiggy said:


> No you haven't created a monster, she sounds wonderful.
> Will she go down on command? If so, just ask her to go down until the children, dog walker, etc. have gone pass you and then praise and titbit.
> When my sister and I go for long walks together, we run up to eight collies loose and when someone approaches we just drop them all until 'job public' have gone by. They are so used to it they more or less drop themselves.


Here's the funny thing. She does this goofy thing where when she sees a dog off in the distance walking our way, she'll get in a really low-to-the-ground crouch...sometimes she'll actually lay on the ground with her paws under her. She looks like a lion in the savannah. When her "prey" gets within striking distance, she bolts for them (to get her pupply play fix). It's actually very cute and all the other dog walkers laugh at her. She'll even do it in the middle of the street...like she thinks she's actually hiding from someone out in the open like that.

But that's an interesting idea to try. She'll obey commands like that when nobody's around. I think I could get her to lay down as other distractions approach, but I know I'll have to physically restrain her when they get in the "strike zone".


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## ckwemartin (Aug 8, 2010)

kcobb said:


> I'm VERY new to this but something I do...
> 
> I try to look for the distraction before my dog sees it.
> If I do see the distraction before General (my dog) does, I call his name, he looks at me I give him a click with a clicker and a treat.
> ...


I do that religiously. It's just like those other people and dogs are like cocaine to her. 50 or 100 feet away, we can manage. But inside the strike zone of 30 feet or so, forget it.


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