# is there an age limit on walking a dog



## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

Hi

Im goin to sound like a right busy body now , but im rather concerned about a dog thats not long moved in a few streets away from me , its getting walked daily after school by 3 roughly 8 year old children , its a springer spanial and its taking the kids for a walk , its not lead trained at all , it bumped into me last week and my dog it came round a corner and came over pulling the kids , i was worried and had no where to go as didnt see it untill it was there , had i seen it i would of crossed as they clearly have no control of this dog , anyway my dog looked at it and the dog barked at my dog and i just quickly got past , it wasnt aggressive but i didnt want to chance anything when an 8 year old child is in charge of a dog , but this now seems to be a regular everyday thing the kids taking this dog for a walk after school , is there a law on what age you can walk adog ? my youngest whos 12 has just come in saying shes seen it on her way home dragging these kids into gardens , i just think its an accident waiting to happen and the parents are idiots and probbely cant be arsed walking it


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

No there is no legal minimum age


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

No there isn't. Unfortunately, I thinkthe only thing that can be done is wait for an accident, unless you know the parents enough to maybe have a word about your concerns?


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

No there isn't but there should be, the time a see a youngest walking a dog almost as big them worries me to death. 

Our free weekly paper is delivered to 3 kids that look under the age of 10 and a very large staffy type dog on a Flexi lead and no adult in sight.


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

happysaz133 said:


> No there isn't. Unfortunately, I thinkthe only thing that can be done is wait for an accident, unless you know the parents enough to maybe have a word about your concerns?


Hi

Havent a clue who they are , i didnt even know where they lived untill my daughter said tonight , and that house was up for let a few weeks back , so there new to the area , i guess aswell 8 year old kids wont be picking up the poo either :nonod: they look like there taking it onto the park aswell the way they walk


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> No there isn't but there should be, the time a see a youngest walking a dog almost as big them worries me to death.
> 
> Our free weekly paper is delivered to 3 kids that look under the age of 10 and a very large staffy type dog on a Flexi lead and no adult in sight.


redicualas , my youngest walks my staffy at the side of me but as soon as i see a person or a dog coming i always hold him then give him back when said persons have past , infact she could probebely take him for a walk on her own as he walks nicly and likes other dogs , but you can never be too carefull i wont even let my 17 year old walk him , you would think with all the law's on fouling there would be an age limit , i know back in my day when i was a kid , kids walked dogs , infact dogs walked themselves back then , but there were no fouling law's back then either


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Since there is no minimum age on walking a dog, anyone know what happens if the dog commits an offence whilst being looked after by a minor? I mean, usually the responsiblity falls on whoever is looking after the dog at the time, but obviously you can't (legally) hold a kid responsible if their dog attacks someone/causes an accident.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Lizz1155 said:


> Since there is no minimum age on walking a dog, anyone know what happens if the dog commits an offence whilst being looked after by a minor? I mean, usually the responsiblity falls on whoever is looking after the dog at the time, but obviously you can't (legally) hold a kid responsible if their dog attacks someone/causes an accident.


The person responsible for the acts of dogs are BOTH the owner and the person who was in charge of the animal at the time of the offence.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

So if a child is under the legal age of responsiblity then their parents may be pursued under both criminal and civil law.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Lizz1155 said:


> Since there is no minimum age on walking a dog, anyone know what happens if the dog commits an offence whilst being looked after by a minor? I mean, usually the responsiblity falls on whoever is looking after the dog at the time, but obviously you can't (legally) hold a kid responsible if their dog attacks someone/causes an accident.


There's a clause somewhere in the DDA (sorry I'm too tired to actually look it up for the actual wording) about the owner having committed an offense if the person in charge of the dog at the time of an incident is not capable...I think that would make the owner responsible if it was a child.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

tabulahrasa said:


> There's a clause somewhere in the DDA (sorry I'm too tired to actually look it up for the actual wording) about the owner having committed an offense if the person in charge of the dog at the time of an incident is not capable...I think that would make the owner responsible if it was a child.


There was an interesting question about this at the Trevor Cooper Doglaw seminar I went to.

*Q:*_ If the owner handed the lead of the dog to a vet, and the dog then bit the owner, who would be liable?_
*A:* _The Vet. It's the person on the end of the lead who is culpable._

That astonished the audience - most of them were vets!

As Smokeybear said - if the person on the end of the lead is too young to be held accountable, then it's the parent/s or guardian/s of the leash-holder who is/are liable.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

So out of curiosity if say a 13 year old, was walking a dog and the dog attacked someone, would it be the parents held accountable?


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Bloody hell. My cousin and I (both aged 11) used to walk his Golden Retriever every day during the school holidays.

He used to pull us down to the fields on the lead then we'd let him off. We'd walk miles. Nothing ever happened. I guess in retrospect it could have done, but this was nearly two decades ago so maybe it was the norm then?


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

MerlinsMum said:


> There was an interesting question about this at the Trevor Cooper Doglaw seminar I went to.
> 
> *Q:*_ If the owner handed the lead of the dog to a vet, and the dog then bit the owner, who would be liable?_
> *A:* _The Vet. It's the person on the end of the lead who is culpable._
> ...


But a vet is a someone that would be deemed capable a child wouldn't. Actually I thinks it's a fit and proper person that's the phrasing.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

There bloody should be. 8 year olds walking a massive bull mastiff which broke away from them and bounded up to Bear one day, who fortunately is a good lad. The bichon 'walked' by a two year old who dropped the lead wouldn't have been so lucky had it reached Zak


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

tabulahrasa said:


> But a vet is a someone that would be deemed capable a child wouldn't. Actually I thinks it's a fit and proper person that's the phrasing.


Doesn't matter. The lead holder is the liable one. There were gasps of disbelief among the vets when Trevor said so, but that's the way the law is (and more so under the new amendments which came in a few weeks ago).


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

In some of field I walk in a couple of weeks ago, a ladies Dachshund was attacked by a Greyhound held by a child. Both dogs were on the lead, but the Greyhound lunged, pulling the child off her feet, then ragged the the poor little dog. The dog survived but was badly injured. The parents were held liable and paid the bills.

I have to say that unless the dog is excellent and the child is very dog savvy, I really don't like seeing young kids walking dogs. A lot of the time it's an accident waiting to happen.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

tabulahrasa said:


> There's a clause somewhere in the DDA (sorry I'm too tired to actually look it up for the actual wording) about the owner having committed an offense if the person in charge of the dog at the time of an incident is not capable...I think that would make the owner responsible if it was a child.


There is no reference to age in the DDA the wording is

This is a criminal offence which *can be brought against the owner of a dog (and if different the person in charge of a dog)* if a dog is dangerously out of control. The offence applies regardless of where the incident takes place  even if it in your own home or garden.

If the person was not capable then of course the person putting the incapable person in that position has failed in their duty of care to the dog and others in any case, regardless of age, eg someone with a mental or physical handicap.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> So out of curiosity if say a 13 year old, was walking a dog and the dog attacked someone, would it be the parents held accountable?


Yes because they have failed in their duty of care both to their child, the dog and the generaly public.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

tabulahrasa said:


> But a vet is a someone that would be deemed capable a child wouldn't. Actually I thinks it's a fit and proper person that's the phrasing.


THere is no phrasing in the DDA which refers to a fit and proper person.

That is a subjective view.

I know plenty of people who are not fit or proper persons to have a dog at the end of their lead irrespective of age!


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

MerlinsMum said:


> Doesn't matter. The lead holder is the liable one. There were gasps of disbelief among the vets when Trevor said so, but that's the way the law is (and more so under the new amendments which came in a few weeks ago).


In any case it does not matter, for a prosecution to go ahead it has to pass the evidentiary test and the public interest test; it is unlikely that a dog biting the owner when held on the lead by someone else is going to be in the public interest.

So, who wants to hold my dog when I pop to the loo then?


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Section 3 subsection 2 is the part I'm talking about.

(2)In proceedings for an offence under subsection (1) above against a person who is the owner of a dog but was not at the material time in charge of it, it shall be a defence for the accused to prove that the dog was at the material time in the charge of a person whom he reasonably believed to be a fit and proper person to be in charge of it.


So conversely an 8 year old for example would not be reasonably a fit and proper person, so it would be useless as a defence and the owner would still be liable.

So no, it's not as straightforward as who had the lead...if the dog's owner has given the lead to someone who could not be expected to control the dog, that's still the dog owner at fault.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

tabulahrasa said:


> Section 3 subsection 2 is the part I'm talking about.
> 
> (2)In proceedings for an offence under subsection (1) above against a person who is the owner of a dog but was not at the material time in charge of it, it shall be a defence for the accused to prove that the dog was at the material time in the charge of a person whom he reasonably believed to be a fit and proper person to be in charge of it.
> 
> ...


It is really irrelevant in the case of an 8 year old in any case as the age of criminal responsibility is 10 

Fault is only used in civil proceedings not in criminal.

As is liability.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

tabulahrasa said:


> So no, it's not as straightforward as who had the lead...if the dog's owner has given the lead to someone who could not be expected to control the dog, that's still the dog owner at fault.


I'd ask Trevor Cooper for clarification of that  
Not just because he'd be the solicitor you'd probably end up dealing with , in that kind of case.

Pretty cut and shut when the vets asked the question, at the seminar I went to.... proper person doesn't enter into it any more.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> It is really irrelevant in the case of an 8 year old in any case as the age of criminal responsibility is 10
> 
> Fault is only used in civil proceedings not in criminal.
> 
> As is liability.


Well to be fair I was using fault and liable in a general usage way rather than as legal terms.

8 was picked at random as small, lol, and because it was an age mentioned a couple of times.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

MerlinsMum said:


> I'd ask Trevor Cooper for clarification of that
> Not just because he'd be the solicitor you'd probably end up dealing with , in that kind of case.
> 
> Pretty cut and shut when the vets asked the question, at the seminar I went to.... proper person doesn't enter into it any more.


I wasn't saying that profession made a difference btw, vet or non vet, lol.

But if I handed a dog that I struggle to hold to a child that anyone could tell wouldn't be able to, I'd fully expect a court to decide that that was a stupid decision for me to have made and therefore I'd still be the one responsible for the consequences of that.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

tabulahrasa said:


> But if I handed a dog that I struggle to hold to a child that anyone could tell wouldn't be able to, I'd fully expect a court to decide that that was a stupid decision for me to have made and therefore I'd still be the one responsible for the consequences of that.


Oh I fully agree. My point was, that even though you did have a supposedly capable person on the end of the lead (=a vet), that's no longer a defence.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

MerlinsMum said:


> Oh I fully agree. My point was, that even though you did have a supposedly capable person on the end of the lead (=a vet), that's no longer a defence.


Ah - I think we're saying the same thing...it's the owner's defence that they didn't have control of the dog at the time that I mean, that someone else did and so it's not the owner who would be prosecuted.

But, if they've given control of a dog to someone where it would be obvious they couldn't control the dog (like a child) they wouldn't be able to use that defence. But, usually it would be well they had the dog, not me.


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## wileys mum (Oct 27, 2013)

Shoshannah said:


> Bloody hell. My cousin and I (both aged 11) used to walk his Golden Retriever every day during the school holidays.
> 
> He used to pull us down to the fields on the lead then we'd let him off. We'd walk miles. Nothing ever happened. I guess in retrospect it could have done, but this was nearly two decades ago so maybe it was the norm then?


it was the norm then  i am speaking from experience myself aswell hence the concern , i used to walk our dog as a child and he slipped his lead and bolted across a road and got run over , this was in the 80's , it was done all the time kids walking dogs , dogs roaming the streets nothing was ever questioned it was the norm but it was still unsafe as my mum found out the hardway with a huge vets bill and a car to repair after it had hit him , but nowadays noway i think its very very unsafe the amount of times my lad has had dogs go for him and im an adult and tbh i dont like it and dont like been in that situation i would hate a kid to be in that situation , i often ask myself why is there so many dog attacks nowadays yet back in the 80's there wasnt and dogs used to roam ?


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

wileys mum said:


> i often ask myself why is there so many dog attacks nowadays yet back in the 80's there wasnt and dogs used to roam ?


go back to the '60s! I'd walk my dog as a child, but I used to have to wait for him to come back home first!

Me: Can I take the dog for a walk?
Mum: I don't know if he's back yet!!

As you say, it was the norm, and nobody minded. My dog had distinctive markings, and when we did walk him (me alone, or with my parents) people used to say 'Oh, I wondered who owned him' and usually complemented his character (loved the stories we were told by astounded people who witnessed him sitting on his own waiting to cross a busy road!). No one ever complained. I really can't recall any of my childhood friends ever getting bitten by a stray dog.

Although we were always told NEVER to stroke a strange dog. Perhaps with the numbers of roaming dogs around, people (and children) were more savvy about approaching them?


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