# What topics really get your blood going?



## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

Not sure about everyone else but I have one topic that I have to read as soon as I see a title in relation to the issue and I have to really fight hard to stop myself giving a negative comment. If I was a bull it would be my red rag. 

I'm not going to discuss they why's etc as thats not what I want this thread to be. but I will say for me it's the breeding of staffies. 

I'm just curious as to what your red rag to a bull is? (To coin a phrase)


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Ooh... veterinary fees? :Banghead


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Cruelty, poor training (or using horrible devices to train), ignoring the advice of others and giving up before one has tried (those sorts of posters who come on here hoping to be supported in rehoming a dog or giving it away and finding that nobody on PF supports them and decide not listen), breedism and anti-rescuism (my new phrase!). Bet you wished you hadn't asked.


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

Shoshannah said:


> Ooh... veterinary fees? :Banghead


I'm waiting for someone to say "threads like these" lol


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Oh and the alpha technique. Any who thinks eating a cracker from a dog's bowl to prove dominance as suggested by Jan Fennel shouldn't be allowed on the internet or near a dog.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

Greyhound Racing! Gah!


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

MollySmith said:


> Oh and the alpha technique. Any who thinks eating a cracker from a dog's bowl to prove dominance as suggested by Jan Fennel shouldn't be allowed on the internet or near a dog.


Ha! Now that's a good one. Eating a cracker from a dog's bowl. Nice.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

"It's all in how they're raised" and "no bad dogs, only bad owners". I can't say how much I HATE those two phrases.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Heart muscles


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

I also seethe when people get dog breeds they know absolutely nothing about. A girl I know has a dad who got Huskies when he knew nothing about the breed. He just wanted them because they could make pretty puppies and in turn make him a pretty penny. They owned a smaller black pom who was tragically killed by the red Husky because they have high prey drives and the Pom got out back. Makes me so angry every time I think about it. The pom belonged to the girl and she was devastated and very angry with her father for bringing dogs into the home without researching the breed or keeping them from her Pom.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

You'll know when it's time 

If you know when it's time then I think you've left it too long


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Alpha & dominance crap
People breeding for idiotic reasons
People who come on a forum about issues that obviously need urgent vet attention
People who make sweeping assumptions about certain breed
People who come looking for advice, then completely ignore it & then come back bleating & whining when things go wrong 
& my personal favourite, people trying to tell me where I 'should' adopt a dog from & that my foreign rescue dogs 'killed UK shelter dogs'- I'll be prepared to review my feelings on this subject when someone presents me with hard facts on this issue rather than opinions & anecdotes


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> Alpha & dominance crap
> People breeding for idiotic reasons
> *People who come on a forum about issues that obviously need urgent vet attention
> People who make sweeping assumptions about certain breed*
> ...


I agree with ALL of this but SPECIFICALLY the two metioned!

When people tell me that they would never own an aussie because they're neurotic I present them my EXTREMELY CALM 8mo aussie who is very well behaved for his age and tell them "Yeah? Neurotic?"
Also when I get that condescending look and "What happened to his tail?" as if I got him and decided "I don't like that" and hacked it off with a kitchen knife.

And if your dog hasn't eaten in four days and is frothing at the mouth and shaking and peeing blood TAKE IT TO A VET FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY!


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

Pictures of dogs off lead without collars on. There's a local dog trainer that was recommended but all the pictures on his website are of his off lead spaniels with no collar/ID.

Improper use of equipment that is prevalent in husky groups. Head collars attached to bungee leads attached to walking belts.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Even though I'm not a cat owner, I find threads about indoor vs outdoor cats and all the reasons why owners do either, very hard to ignore and they often truly frustrate and infuriate me!

I also stay clear of most dog attack threads because I don't often agree with the sentiments about loose dogs and the way in which some owners are judged without knowing the facts and of course we only have one side of the story. But I understand they're sensitive topics so I try not to get involved so as not to upset anyone.

Posters/subjects with seemingly little care or thought for their dog or wanting to accept advice or opinions from other members also grinds my gears.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Even though I'm not a cat owner, I find threads about indoor vs outdoor cats and all the reasons why owners do either, very hard to ignore and they often truly frustrate and infuriate me!
> 
> I also stay clear of most dog attack threads because I don't often agree with the sentiments about loose dogs and the way in which some owners are judged without knowing the facts and of course we only have one side of the story. But I understand they're sensitive topics so I try not to get involved so as not to upset anyone.
> 
> Posters/subjects with seemingly little care or thought for their dog or wanting to accept advice or opinions from other members also grinds my gears.


Not even sure of your stance but we used to have several cats, and they were all outdoor cats. They usually got to the age of anywhere from 3-5 before a raccoon/possum got them or they got hit by a car. After that mess we decided that with the litter of kittens we had back then, we'd keep two and make them "indoor cats". They stayed indoors for a long portion of their life, maybe 3-4 years, and when we moved we built a super tall fence and allowed them in the back yard so they could explore a bit. (they either weren't climbers or didn't know how) Now they can be in either the front or back yard, but because they no longer stray away from the house due to being inside most of the time and for most of their lives, but they're big healthy 9 year old ragdolls and by far the longest living cats we've had.

But eh, I really don't mind either way what the owner wants to do. I used to take them on walks around the block so they got outside and the brown one, Oscar, likes the walks a lot but the white one, Oliver, didn't much care for them. For me, keeping them indoors and then allowing them outside later on in life worked really well to set boundaries and habits to prevent injuries from cars. We also used to live next to a train so it really wasn't a great thing to let them play on the tracks  We did lose some cats to the train as well.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

I'd love to hear your opposition though! Maybe it'll be an eye opener for me or something I didn't think of. They're the family cats now and when I move I'll just be taking Cosmo, not sure if I'll ever get another cat but I'd still be interested in hearing your opinions


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

people who dont educate themselves before spouting off 
FGS its not hard to actually get actual facts these days

all large and/or bull breeds should be on lead and muzzled at all times

people who perpetuate 'chinese whispers', it must be true cos a friends, 2nd cousin's, best friends, nan's, next door neighbour heard bout it

people who comment on a thread with, I havent read the article......but

and about 10 squillion other things


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> "It's all in how they're raised" and "no bad dogs, only bad owners". I can't say how much I HATE those two phrases.


This a million times over.

Because of course, those of us whose dogs have "issues", didn't spend an immense amount of time training them and socialising them, didn't give them enough attention or take care of their needs, and cannot handle a dog properly :Arghh

Or so some people would have you think anyway - never mind that actually we probably worked just as hard on the training, socialisation, mental stimulation and appropriate exercise of our dogs, and then spend a good chunk of that dogs life working with behaviourists and developing management plans. But hey ho, what do we know.

Then there is the wonderful people who take on a challenging rescue dog, and while the dog doesn't end up perfect, still manages to become a good pet - imagine how they feel when faced with the "bad owners" rubbish. .

Some dogs are just born not wired right - that's the truth, and then other dogs are attacked by others and just never mentally recover - that's not a bad owner problem.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

People that say they need help and directly ignore all the help that has been givin to them or ask opinions and then act like they know better and all us on PF are wrong


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

catpud said:


> This a million times over.
> 
> Because of course, those of us whose dogs have "issues", didn't spend an immense amount of time training them and socialising them, didn't give them enough attention or take care of their needs, and cannot handle a dog properly :Arghh
> 
> ...


Its all in how the owner raises them(Whaaaaaaat it is all one comment.Doesn't that make it better):Wideyed


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Cruelty and neglect of any animal.

Irresponsible breeding .

and being told I don't know naff all about my breeds after 25 years of having them, spending time with countless other ones and working in rescue.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

catpud said:


> This a million times over.
> 
> Because of course, those of us whose dogs have "issues", didn't spend an immense amount of time training them and socialising them, didn't give them enough attention or take care of their needs, and cannot handle a dog properly :Arghh
> 
> ...


I knew it.....You finally admitted the truth lol


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

mrs phas said:


> people who dont educate themselves before spouting off
> FGS its not hard to actually get actual facts these days
> 
> *all large and/or bull breeds should be on lead and muzzled at all times*


I'm confused, are you saying this is true or are you saying you dislike when people say this?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> Alpha & dominance crap
> People breeding for idiotic reasons
> People who come on a forum about issues that obviously need urgent vet attention
> People who make sweeping assumptions about certain breed
> ...


This in bold. I've left a couple of forums in the past - one in particular where I really supported their cause because several members told me I had the blood of English rescue dogs on my hands as I'd taken two dogs from Southern Ireland. The fact that I also had a rescue dog from England who was a rottie with quite severe behavioural problems was neither here nor there apparently.

Oh and people who throw around insulting and offensive terms such as Nazi having no regard for the offence this may cause.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

chickenfoot said:


> I'm confused, are you saying this is true or are you saying you dislike when people say this?


saying i dislike it when people say this type of rubbish


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

My biggest one is people thinking that a dog "is just an animal".If you know what i mean.No my dog means more to me than any strangers life because it loves me unconditionally unlike anyone else in my life.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

People telling me i am a lousy Rott owner and not knowing anything about them even though i have spent 40 years around them.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

all i can say is jaw locks lmao


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

mrs phas said:


> saying i dislike it when people say this type of rubbish


Thank god. I was about to go off ha


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Limping dog.

"I don't think he's in any pain".


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

Rott lover said:


> all i can say is jaw locks lmao


LMAOO


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

<Takes a deep breath>

Irresponsible breeding
Wilful ignorance whether it's about breeding or buying
People ignoring loads of great advice because they're holding out for that one person who will agree with them and tell them they're doing just great
"He knows he's done wrong...."
The suggestion that vets exist purely to con vast amounts of money from pet owners
People keeping old/ill dogs going far longer than they should because they can't face making that decision
Vet avoiders
People who start/join in with internet witch hunts
"It's all in how you raise them..."
Show demonisers

I probably shouldn't be on the internet to be honest (or at least on PF these days ), it's bad for my blood pressure.......


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Pei ads. 'KC reg ultra rare flowered' ....... Yeah ok then?! Seems as flowered markings is a fault & not recognised by KC but you'll say KC reg & put a fat price tag on it. (Just an example but you get the idea) 'super ultra wrinkley' ... No that's also bad, not 'cute' so a reason to charge more. 

There's a certain breeder who also gets my back up when mentioned. 

Any mention of breeding for money or just because 'they can' . If the in laws mention studding their 'long haired blue GSD' out one more time I will be banning them from my house  

Even writing this has got me a bit narky!


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

People who buy "Christmas puppies" and seeing those same puppies grow into adults that the child or household becomes disinterested in. DOGS ARE NOT CHRISTMAS TOYS!
People who buy dogs because they're cute and overlook their temperament or personality
People who allow their small breed dogs to get away with things bigger dogs would be euthd for (snarling or snapping at people or other dogs) or simply bad manners (jumping on tables, stealing food, incessant barking)
People who purchase small dogs and carry them around constantly which causes them to be stressed and unsocialized later in life
People who let their big dogs torture small dogs because they're "just playing"
People who assume all owners are at fault for their dogs bad behaviors and they don't work on them at all or train them endlessly to work on said behavior
People that feed my dog treats when I tell them not to at the dog park (HES ALLERGIC TO CORN AND IS A POOR BEGGAR BOY DONT FEED HIM)


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## Rosie64 (Feb 27, 2014)

It is just a dog really gets my red flag flying
People who have an obviously sick dog that needs a vet being on here instead of at the vet because :...........
Irresponsible breeders 
Asking for advice then coming up with excuses for not taking it when it is given and many many more things


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I can never ignore a discussion on tail docking, every Tom, Dick and Harry breeding their dog for ridiculous reasons really annoys me too.


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

People who think vicars work only on Sundays.
Owners who want lots of sympathy when their cat is run over due to their decision to let them out..... myself for being so harsh.
Cruelty to animals or children.
People who take on a living creature, whether goldfish or horse, without doing any research.
Parents who don't cherish their children.
Anyone who thinks teaching is easy.
Terrorists.
The cost of heating.
That I've just found my best friend again only for her to be diagnosed with terminal cancer.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

chickenfoot said:


> People who buy "Christmas puppies" and seeing those same puppies grow into adults that the child or household becomes disinterested in. DOGS ARE NOT CHRISTMAS TOYS!
> People who buy dogs because they're cute and overlook their temperament or personality
> People who allow their small breed dogs to get away with things bigger dogs would be euthd for (snarling or snapping at people or other dogs) or simply bad manners (jumping on tables, stealing food, incessant barking)
> People who purchase small dogs and carry them around constantly which causes them to be stressed and unsocialized later in life
> ...


Whilst I agree with most of what you said, just thought I`d mention in defence of some Christmas puppy buyers, my dog was a Christmas puppy (2012). He hasn`t been rehomed, dumped, neglected or ignored yet 

For me I`m pretty relaxed. I come on the forum to chat and lower my blood pressure lol, I have enough problems with people in real life! 
Basically I ignore discussions relating to things I don`t know enough about (so I don`t give out incorrect advice), threads that are a bazillion pages long of arguments, anything relating to obtaining a dog- so rescue/breeding threads (apart from introduction threads), threads posted purely to cause problems ("Why not neutering your dog makes you an irresponsible owner" for example).
If I click on another thread and it fits the above criteria, I click off it and look elsewhere.
Makes my forum life a hell of a lot easier lol


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

Canine K9 said:


> Whilst I agree with most of what you said, just thought I`d mention in defence of some Christmas puppy buyers, my dog was a Christmas puppy (2012). He hasn`t been rehomed, dumped, neglected or ignored yet
> 
> For me I`m pretty relaxed. I come on the forum to chat and lower my blood pressure lol, I have enough problems with people in real life!
> Basically I ignore discussions relating to things I don`t know enough about (so I don`t give out incorrect advice), threads that are a bazillion pages long of arguments, anything relating to obtaining a dog- so rescue/breeding threads (apart from introduction threads), threads posted purely to cause problems ("Why not neutering your dog makes you an irresponsible owner" for example).
> ...


Nooooo I mean christmas puppies WHO DO get dumped :/ Not all! It can be a wonderful gift if the family is ready for a dog!


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

I just see it happen a lot where families aren't ready, or the family expects their 10 year old to take on full responsibility of the dog without any help from the family and when the family sees a 10 year old is clearly not equipped to raise a dog, I see it on craigslist or facebook 

Also when people get a dog and then have a baby and get rid of their dog. UGH! Don't get me started!


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

chickenfoot said:


> Nooooo I mean christmas puppies WHO DO get dumped :/ Not all! It can be a wonderful gift if the family is ready for a dog!


I know what you mean  It happens all year round sadly. Christmas tends to be a prime time, a bit like Easter and rabbits.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

This could be a long list 

- Anyone asking for advice and then ignoring it/going off to find people to tell them what they want to hear
- Asking for medical advice on a forum when the dog should already be at the vet. The woman wanting natural remedies for her dog vomiting blood on a fb group springs to mind
- The fanatical rescue people/raw feeders
- The people who try to justify breeding unhealthy dogs as "just pets"
- Anti-vaccers
- People who shout don't worry he's friendly from half a field away. Usually their dog is friendly in that completely over the top, ZOMG love me, *bounce bounce* way that annoys a lot of dogs
- CM worshippers, people who can't be bothered training their dogs so just stick prongs on them or hurt them.
- Conspiracy theorists


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

As opinionated as I can be, I don’t tend to get all sorts of riled up about it though. 
Some lessons are only learned through experience, and sometimes you have to sit back and wait for the person to gain that experience. And sometimes you can lead a horse to water, and he still won’t drink even if you feed him salty peanuts. 

That said, my own personal “babies” are dogs and babies. It’s a topic very close to home for me, I work with children and dogs, and I know how wonderful it can be. I hate to see so much misinformation floating about in those threads...

My other bugaboo is BSL. I just can’t keep my mouth shut on that one. And it relates to dogs and babies because one of the many things wrong with BSL is that it creates a false sense of security with “safe” breeds and kids end up getting hurt because of it.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> My other bugaboo is BSL. I just can't keep my mouth shut on that one. And it relates to dogs and babies because one of the many things wrong with BSL is that it creates a false sense of security with "safe" breeds and kids end up getting hurt because of it.


Please don't get riled :Nailbiting but Ive seen this mentioned a few times before and don't know enough about it to understand how or why it's a problem. I'm genuinely interested..

EDIT.. I've just mentioned this to my OH and he's now taking the p*ss out of me! I completely understand what u mean now.. I only knew BSL as British Sign Language! DOH!!!!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Nettles said:


> Please don't get riled :Nailbiting but Ive seen this mentioned a few times before and don't know enough about it to understand how or why it's a problem. I'm genuinely interested..
> 
> EDIT.. I've just mentioned this to my OH and he's now taking the p*ss out of me! I completely understand what u mean now.. I only knew BSL as British Sign Language! DOH!!!!


Breed specific legislation, putting restrictions on certain breeds/types. In the UK it means thousands of vaguely pitbull looking dogs have been put down just because of how they look.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> Breed specific legislation, putting restrictions on certain breeds/types. In the UK it means thousands of vaguely pitbull looking dogs have been put down just because of how they look.


I completely understand now. I'm hanging my head in shame :Bag I thought it meant British sign language :Facepalm


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

Nettles said:


> Please don't get riled :Nailbiting but Ive seen this mentioned a few times before and don't know enough about it to understand how or why it's a problem. I'm genuinely interested..
> 
> EDIT.. I've just mentioned this to my OH and he's now taking the p*ss out of me! I completely understand what u mean now.. I only knew BSL as British Sign Language! DOH!!!!


LOL 
Genuine questions don't rile me, support of Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) does.

Basically any laws based on what breed a dog is are just stupid, a total waste of time and resources, and they simply do not do what they claim to do (keep the public safe).

Since it's implementation in the UK, there is absolutely ZERO evidence that BSL is effective on any level. 
The same goes for any other place where breed bans and restrictions have been enacted.


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

I ignore most stuff but slating of small dogs will always be one that winds me up


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Nettles said:


> I completely understand now. I'm hanging my head in shame :Bag I thought it meant British sign language :Facepalm


Easy mistake to make, the specific law here is usually called dda so even if you'd heard of it it wouldn't be bsl.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

MollySmith said:


> Oh and the alpha technique. Any who thinks eating a cracker from a dog's bowl to prove dominance as suggested by Jan Fennel shouldn't be allowed on the internet or near a dog.


Anyone who eats anything from a dog's bowl must have a cast iron stomach. Not something I'd try, Alpha or otherwise!


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> LOL
> Genuine questions don't rile me, support of Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) does.
> 
> Basically any laws based on what breed a dog is are just stupid, a total waste of time and resources, and they simply do not do what they claim to do (keep the public safe).
> ...


As @Nicky10 said, I know this as the Dangerous Dog Act. I wasn't aware that it had zero impact either, which sickens me even more 

Makes much more sense to me now. I was genuinely intrigued as to how British Sign Language was causing so many problems in the doggy world  Oops!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Nettles said:


> As @Nicky10 said, I know this as the Dangerous Dog Act. I wasn't aware that it had zero impact either, which sickens me even more
> 
> Makes much more sense to me now. I was genuinely intrigued as to how British Sign Language was causing so many problems in the doggy world  Oops!


It has two other issues in that it makes them appealing to those looking for a penis extension on a lead and it convinces people that own other breeds that their dogs are safer because they're not banned.

I'll stop talking about it now


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> It has two other issues in that it makes them appealing to those looking for a penis extension on a lead and it convinces people that own other breeds that their dogs are safer because they're not banned.
> 
> I'll stop talking about it now


Didn't mean to bring up such a touchy subject and get everyone wound up. I can understand everyone's anger. I really don't know much about it, simply because even the thought of healthy dogs being destroyed for no reason upsets me  I suppose I've buried my head in the sand rather than think about it.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2015)

I live in America and in several places pit bulls particularly aren't allowed and it enrages me. Most apartments don't allow pit bulls but will allow large breeds like labs. I used to work at an animal shelter and I can say from my personal experience I dealt with far less problematic "pit bulls" compared to other breeds of random mixes. I used to spend a lot of time with them, and I don't think I actually ever experienced a "mean" or aggressive one. Some were extremely hyper due to being locked up all the time (the high energy dogs never got adequate exercise) and some were calm and sweet as could be.

The most frustrating part were the people who would look at the dogs and ask "what kind of dog is that?" And when I said "pit mix" there were people who would ACTUALLY say to me oh we can't adopt one of "those dogs". I would get SO angry. I started just choosing whatever they looked mixed with and saying that instead so they'd at least give the dog a chance.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Well top of my list now is people actually thinking a dog squeezes a pee out in the house because it's being spiteful! :Banghead


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

People who don't do anything with their dog, no walks, no training and then see angry when they wreck the house. 

Fb post from someone complaining their dog just chewed half their door. They work 12 hour days and do little with the dog when they're home


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> People who don't do anything with their dog, no walks, no training and then see angry when they wreck the house.
> 
> Fb post from someone complaining their dog just chewed half their door. They work 12 hour days and do little with the dog when they're home


And let me guess.. When someone tells them the reasons why the dog behaves the way it does, they disagree and get defensive because it's not what they want to hear?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Nettles said:


> And let me guess.. When someone tells them the reasons why the dog behaves the way it does, they disagree and get defensive because it's not what they want to hear?


They just want a solution that involves sedatives from what I saw. Its all ok though they're getting a kennel in a few weeks 

I had to run back off to the thread where a cat owner was asking about keeping them sane on crate rest. They were taking the advice


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> They just want a solution that involves sedatives from what I saw. Its all ok though they're getting a kennel in a few weeks
> 
> I had to run back off to the thread where a cat owner was asking about keeping them sane on crate rest. They were taking the advice


Sedating a dog for 12 hours every day sounds perfectly fine and healthy.. I might pop back over to the thread where a "spiteful" dog is "squeezing out pee" and suggest this new 12 hour sedation method :Banghead


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Breed specific haters.

LGDs. Particularly in the sense of how some insist to maintain that they do not make good pets because they're temperamental and therefore unpredictable.

What a crock of dog sh1t!


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2015)

I have only met wonderful LG family dogs that did beautifully with children so that is QUITE a crock of dog sh!t


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

*


JenSteWillow said:



Pei ads. 'KC reg ultra rare flowered' ....... Yeah ok then?! Seems as flowered markings is a fault & not recognised by KC but you'll say KC reg & put a fat price tag on it. (Just an example but you get the idea) 'super ultra wrinkley' ... No that's also bad, not 'cute' so a reason to charge more.

Click to expand...

*


JenSteWillow said:


> There's a certain breeder who also gets my back up when mentioned.
> 
> Any mention of breeding for money or just because 'they can' . If the in laws mention studding their 'long haired blue GSD' out one more time I will be banning them from my house
> 
> Even writing this has got me a bit narky!


I'm not easily riled but I do get furious with the armchair experts who insist ALL Pei are aggressive, based on the fact that way back in their history Pei were "fighting" dogs. On another forum, when I mentioned that both mine had had entropion I was treated to a lecture about how unhealthy the breed was and mine should have been PTS, The same member then went on to say in their considered opinion ALL pure bred dogs should be eradicated as the world would be better off without them ... charming!


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2015)

Magyarmum said:


> I'm not easily riled but I do get furious with the armchair experts who insist ALL Pei are aggressive, based on the fact that way back in their history Pei were "fighting" dogs. On another forum, when I mentioned that both mine had had entropion I was treated to a lecture about how unhealthy the breed was and mine should have been PTS, The same member then went on to say in their considered opinion ALL pure bred dogs should be eradicated as the world would be better off without them ... charming!


Wow! People like that make me want to wring them with my fists!
I understand supporting rescues and avoiding breeding dogs as personal preference but it's so annoying when people demean others for wanting puppies that are purebred. When I got Cosmo I was initially going to get a pup from a breeder but ended up having a terrible experience with one and stumbled upon him on the internet so he's a craigslist puppy. However, when I mentioned I was getting a puppy from a breeder this girl looked at me and went "why don't you rescue?" And spouted off about why "designer breeds" are awful and people should stop creating puppies and mutts are fine dogs but you know some people just want to experience a puppy. I'm going off to move out and live by myself and I wanted a dog to grow with me and that's fine.

I do plan on rescuing from here out, I just really wanted that puppy bond, you know? Some people crave that and it's ok. I also wanted a pure Aussie for the reasons I love the breed. They're fantastic and exactly what I was looking for in a dog (and will probably continue to look for in all my future dogs, mutts or not. I simply love the breed)


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

'I'm the alpha' and all that rubbish!

'I'll let her have one litter as I think she'd love being a mum'

Judging dogs by their breed, size etc


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

People who ask for advice, get loads of great answers, then don't bother to come back and say thank you or update everyone on if the advice works, so ignorant.

Irresponsible breeding, especially those who want their children to experience the joy of seeing their pet have babies ( or even fur babies yuk).

Those people who snootily slag off show breeders and say they only want a pet dog not some sort of disease ridden KC show bred dog (who knew!)

People who post imflammatory subjects from something they've found on the Internet (must be true then) and sit back to watch the arguments commence.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

"Help my bitch 'accidently' got pregnant" unch


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

[QUOTE="chickenfoot, post: 1064292569, member: 1428736"*]I also seethe when people get dog breeds they know absolutely nothing about. *A girl I know has a dad who got Huskies when he knew nothing about the breed. He just wanted them because they could make pretty puppies and in turn make him a pretty penny. They owned a smaller black pom who was tragically killed by the red Husky because they have high prey drives and the Pom got out back. Makes me so angry every time I think about it. The pom belonged to the girl and she was devastated and very angry with her father for bringing dogs into the home without researching the breed or keeping them from her Pom.[/QUOTE]

And often these are dogs not only with high prey drives, but huge exercise requirements and very independent-minded, which means that their prey drive is sharpened by sheer boredom because nobody walks or trains them, and their independence leads to them ignoring instructions and being almost impossible to control.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Rott lover said:


> all i can say is jaw locks lmao


Peeing myself laughing here . . . .


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Muttly said:


> "Help my bitch 'accidently' got pregnant" unch


 . . . for the eleventh time . . .


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

JenSteWillow said:


> Pei ads. 'KC reg ultra rare flowered' ....... Yeah ok then?! Seems as flowered markings is a fault & not recognised by KC but you'll say KC reg & put a fat price tag on it. (Just an example but you get the idea) 'super ultra wrinkley' ... No that's also bad, not 'cute' so a reason to charge more.
> 
> There's a certain breeder who also gets my back up when mentioned.
> 
> ...


There now, there now.

Sit down

D-E-E-P breaths.

Feeling a bit better?

Good.

Have a cuppa tea.

And some gin. Have some gin.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

sharloid said:


> *Pictures of dogs off lead without collars on. There's a local dog trainer that was recommended but all the pictures on his website are of his off lead spaniels with no collar/ID.*
> 
> Improper use of equipment that is prevalent in husky groups. Head collars attached to bungee leads attached to walking belts.


No problem with that if the pictures were taken on his own premises (not on public land) and/or the training is as gundogs. Working dogs are exempt from the collar/tag law.


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

Burrowzig said:


> No problem with that if the pictures were taken on his own premises (not on public land) and/or the training is as gundogs. Working dogs are exempt from the collar/tag law.


Yep, normal walks don't count.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2015)

Oh I forgot about PeTA. PeTA and their ilk get me riled up. Especially their stances on breeders (apparently there is no such thing as a responsible breeder) keeping animals as pets (total animal liberation) and their stance on pitbulls (they support BSL). So really it all just goes back to BSL LOL


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

lostbear said:


> . . . for the eleventh time . . .


I haven't read the whole thread


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm not a breeeder I only breed one litter a year


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

The bashing of equipment like flexi-leads that, if used properly, are useful to many.

And I won't say why, but it's tough for me to read personal threads about mental health in dog chat.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Muttly said:


> I haven't read the whole thread


Sorry!

What I meant was that it's often "Help! My bitch accidentally got pregnant" and it turns out to be for the eleventh time.

Many apologies if it looked like I was complaining because you had repeated a comment.

(*_Hangs head in contrition*_)


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

" I can't afford the vets" 
" I can't afford a dog walker" 
" I can't afford insurance" 
" I can't afford to pay £X for a dog"


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

lostbear said:


> . . . for the eleventh time . . .


. . . this year . . .


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

lostbear said:


> Sorry!
> 
> What I meant was that it's often "Help! My bitch accidentally got pregnant" and it turns out to be for the eleventh time.
> 
> ...


Aww bless you! sorry:Sorry , thought you were fed up because I was repeating. I get ya now


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Aww bless you! sorry:Sorry , thought you were fed up because I was repeating. I get ya now


I didnt read the whole thread but......


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

People complaining about vet bills and assuming that all vets are only in it for the money. And of course people who avoid taking their animal to the vet when it clearly needs to be seen.

People who are overly defensive about certain breeds. As in you can't say that you'd personally prefer it if breed 'a' was less wrinkly, or that breed 'b' had a longer muzzle, without being accused of watching too much Pedigree Dogs Exposed and having it in for all show dogs.

People who breed their dogs just because they can, or for profit.

People who ask for advice and then use every excuse in the book as to why they can't follow it.

People who say that a crossbreed dog is 'just' a mongrel. My crossbreed is not 'just' anything, thank you.

People who insist that you should only rescue dogs from UK rescues, as if dogs from abroad are less worthy of being saved.

I tend not to post on those kind of threads though, I just seethe internally


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

magpie said:


> People complaining about vet bills and assuming that all vets are only in it for the money. And of course people who avoid taking their animal to the vet when it clearly needs to be seen.
> 
> People who are overly defensive about certain breeds. As in you can't say that you'd personally prefer it if breed 'a' was less wrinkly, or that breed 'b' had a longer muzzle, without being accused of watching too much Pedigree Dogs Exposed and having it in for all show dogs.
> 
> ...


Also just for those who insist on rescues and rescuing from UK only just remember that there are many people on here from the US and many other places as well.That would make things quite expensive to rescue


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Aww bless you! sorry:Sorry , thought you were fed up because I was repeating. I get ya now


Glad we're still friends. . . .


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

"small dogs cant live with large breeds"

using the term teacup, its a flipping RUNT

breeders charging more for bitches and/or 'rare' colours like pied poodles, lilac or merle chis, etc

people being happy to pay more for a x breed 'designer' mongrel, than a pedigree, well bred, health tested dog

the oft heard excuses for giving your dog up, we've had a baby, it doesnt match the decor, it wont run, its not a real xyz and i want my money back, its 15 and been an only dog and now s/he doesnt like the 3 month old puppy jumping on it, its old, it keeps jumping the fence etc
*[please be assured im not factoring in the real reasons people have]*


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Not sure if this has been mentioned (as I've not had time to read all the posts) but when celebrity Dog trainers are brought up i.e. Cesar Millan etc 

don't no but having looked at some of their techniques I would feel i was being cruel to my dog if I tried them


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

mrs phas said:


> "small dogs cant live with large breeds"
> 
> using the term teacup, its a flipping RUNT
> 
> ...


Same here - it is an invitation to breed your bitch and "earn" your money back - and a lot of colours are rare because a) kennel club doesn't recognise them and b) they are linked to health problems.

There is often a reason for not breeding dogs of a particular colour, and it's not just that someone don't like the look of them when the breed standard was written.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

lostbear said:


> Same here - it is an invitation to breed your bitch and "earn" your money back - and a lot of colours are rare because a) kennel club doesn't recognise them and b) they are linked to health problems.
> 
> There is often a reason for not breeding dogs of a particular colour, and it's not just that someone don't like the look of them when the breed standard was written.


Actually lost bear some times special colors are a wanted thing.I remember when i was younger and we bred dobys we had several fawns and a couple of blues


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I had a list...but I managed to shorten it to 'ignorance' epressed


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## caju (Jan 3, 2015)

I don't really get angry but the key thing that makes me sad is the lack of legislation/law enforcement regarding puppy breeding.

There are more dogs than there are people who want them (more supply than demand) which causes huge problems in itself. And this leads to it being far too easy for uneducated and/or ill-prepared people to buy dogs.

And this ignorance/ill-preparedness is the root cause of most of the things so far mentioned in this thread. I know it's frustrating/upsetting when people think alpha-rolling is an effective training technique, or that all large dogs are dangerous, or that dogs don't need walks, or they don't research breeds, or whatever, but that all stems from ignorance on their part.

Most rescue centres do a very good job of vetting potential owners, educating them a little, visiting their homes, ensuring their suitability for a dog, etc., as do most good breeders. If only every person selling a dog did the same, I'm sure things would be better. Too many backyard breeders out to make a quick buck, with no repercussions. Laws on this need to be stricter and their enforcement needs to be more rigorous.

_"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" - _Mahatma Ghandi_._


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Rott lover said:


> Actually lost bear some times special colors are a wanted thing.I remember when i was younger and we bred dobys we had several fawns and a couple of blues


I don't know if there are any health defects associated with those colours in dobes - I'm assuming none if you bred them, but I have read a lot which says that white dobermanns suffer from a catalogue of health problems, and can be aggressive (though so would I be if I was as sick as many of these dogs seem to be).

I think sometimes that it is because these colours bred with another dog the same colour can cause defects even if these aren't apparent in the parents (like with double-merle matings). I'm not saying that this happens all of the time, but I think it's something that people need to be aware of, especially when so many people seem to be breeding dogs as a sort of cottage industry these days, without any long-term thought for what the health of the puppies might be.

I have to admit that I'm taking a shot in the dark here, as what I know about genetics can be written on the back of a postage stamp in large letters, but I do know that many people are breeding dogs willy-nilly for cash and that when "rare" colours come into the mix, it can be even worse.

I think it is different when a breeder who knows what they are doing produces litters in which these appear, or perhaps even deliberately breeds them to fulfil a demand as long as the dogs don't suffer for it, but there are so many folks jumping on the bandwagon these days, who think that all you do is stick two dogs together and let them get on with it, that it can be a recipe for heartbreak.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Rott lover said:


> Actually lost bear some times special colors are a wanted thing.I remember when i was younger and we bred dobys we had several fawns and a couple of blues


I have just read an awful story on Merle Chi's  They may be wanted because they are pretty colours, but Kennel Club have very good reason for banning them due to health issues. Poor loves.
If it's that rare, I would question why?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Merle is a dominant gene, apart from a few colours it will always show up. So that its now cropping in so many breeds means they must be crosses. With the horrific cost that comes with double merles they want to try and control it. Breeding from a double merle stud means you will always get merle puppies.

And it's showing up in so many breeds because merle is a very pretty colour and anything that can be flogged as rare is seen as a good thing .


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## Maria_1986 (May 15, 2011)

BSL, moans about vets fees, irresponsible breeding (doubly so if its a breed that rescues are already overflowing with), people rehoming old/ill dogs because they can no longer be bothered, people who use 'just a...' about any animal, people who refuse to take a guinea(or other small furry) to the vet cos its cheaper to go to pets a home and buy a new one if it dies.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

The Ovcharka adds on a certain website always get me - 'Caucasian Ovcharka x Malinois for sale; ideal family pets' 

I've had to stop looking because I rang that one up and it ended in a blazing argument


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

rona said:


> You'll know when it's time
> 
> If you know when it's time then I think you've left it too long


As soon as I saw the title I was going to say this then you did it for me.



Nicky10 said:


> This could be a long list
> 
> - Anyone asking for advice and then ignoring it/going off to find people to tell them what they want to hear
> - Asking for medical advice on a forum when the dog should already be at the vet. The woman wanting natural remedies for her dog vomiting blood on a fb group springs to mind
> ...


I agree with a lot of these but apart from the anti vaccinaton one none annoy me as much as the knowing when it is time.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I get exhausted by the die-hard anti-breeder fanatics.

The ones who think all breeders are evil and that animals should never be bred deliberately, even if it's responsibly. None of us wants to see animals in rescue, but how do they get there? Somebody has to breed them. Why should breeding be the domain of the careless, ignorant and greedy?

I'm anti-irresponsible breeding but I get so tired of the holier-than-thou attitude some people have towards responsible breeders.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2015)

Gemmaa said:


> I had a list...but I managed to shorten it to 'ignorance' epressed


Agree except instead of ignorance I'll say "stupid".
Ignorance can be educated. Stupid... well, as we say in these parts, you just can't fix stupid.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2015)

Shoshannah said:


> I get exhausted by the die-hard anti-breeder fanatics.
> 
> The ones who think all breeders are evil and that animals should never be bred deliberately, even if it's responsibly. None of us wants to see animals in rescue, but how do they get there? Somebody has to breed them. Why should breeding be the domain of the careless, ignorant and greedy?
> 
> I'm anti-irresponsible breeding but I get so tired of the holier-than-thou attitude some people have towards responsible breeders.


I agree, but I feel like most shelter dogs are the result of BAD breeding or backyard breeding or "accidents". This is because breeders put a lot of work into finding their dogs good homes, and people pay good money to get those dogs so clearly they aren't bought on a whim. So instead of getting rid of the only good form of breeding why not rag on the actual problem


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

Error post...


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

chickenfoot said:


> I agree, but I feel like most shelter dogs are the result of BAD breeding or backyard breeding or "accidents". This is because breeders put a lot of work into finding their dogs good homes, and people pay good money to get those dogs so clearly they aren't bought on a whim. So instead of getting rid of the only good form of breeding why not rag on the actual problem


Agree to a degree - but you'd be surprised how many very expensive puppies ARE bought on a whim, and dumped into rescue she the buyer finds that they are hard work.


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

What's the 'lock jaw' you are are laughing about? Please let me in on the joke hehe


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Doggiedelight said:


> What's the 'lock jaw' you are are laughing about? Please let me in on the joke hehe


The myth that certain breeds (i.e. bull breeds) have some amazing anatomical quirk that allows them to lock their jaws closed making them super dangerous because once they've bitten it's impossible to get them off.

Apparently some people do actually believe it


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

lostbear said:


> Agree to a degree - but you'd be surprised how many very expensive puppies ARE bought on a whim, and dumped into rescue she the buyer finds that they are hard work.


Also quite a lot of working dogs are sent to rescue shelters when they don't make the grade which is how I came by both of my pointers (although Arthur was picked up as a stray so we suspect was thrown out or not looked for when he did one of his disappearing acts).


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

SingingWhippet said:


> The myth that certain breeds (i.e. bull breeds) have some amazing anatomical quirk that allows them to lock their jaws closed making them super dangerous because once they've bitten it's impossible to get them off.
> 
> Apparently some people do actually believe it


*BLUSH* I thought staffies locked their jaws when they had another dog pinned down. Not making it impossible to get them off but just making it harder. I have just googled it and now know otherwise.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Doggiedelight said:


> *BLUSH* I thought staffies locked their jaws when they had another dog pinned down. Not making it impossible to get them off but just making it harder. I have just googled it and now know otherwise.


Some people genuinely believe that staffies and pitbulls have an entirely different jaw structure to any other dog with a locking mechanism, not just sheer determination and they hang on. It would be hilarious if not for the way they use that belief


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Not so much here, but cropping p*sses me RIGHT off.
Worse still is that the forums/groups that it is mentioned on, most people see nothing wrong with it at all!!
Same with shock collars, prong collars etc

Rescue snobbery. The 'I'm better than you because I rescued, you can't be a dog lover if you went to a breeder' crowd.
UK rescue snobbery. "YOU'VE KILLED AN ENGLISH DOG NOW OMG!!!!1!!"

The idiots that think their cockapoo labradoodle pomchi whatever is the bestest super rarest breed ever and they are automatically healthy and the best pets ever and giving £500+ to their greedy breeders is just fine.
The same idiots who probably got their random name mix from a puppy farm, but it's ok because the kennels the puppies were in were clean.
The ignorant, selfish, greedy people who have puppies because they can, because it was "an accident", to make money etc
People with obese dogs who insist they are just "big boned" or say they are "perfect for the breed"
and I seem to have gone off on a tangent


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Yes people with fat dogs who see nothing wrong. Don't go on pug groups, they're soul destroying.

The hybrid vigour myth, or randomly bred dogs for "just" pets are automatically healthier than show dogs. Pets don't need to be healthy or have a good temperament right?

A dog fb page I'm on is really good except that so many people post photos of cropped dobe puppies and there's so much cooing over party hats or how cute they look while undergoing the months of after care it takes


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> Some people genuinely believe that staffies and pitbulls have an entirely different jaw structure to any other dog with a locking mechanism, not just sheer determination and they hang on. It would be hilarious if not for the way they use that belief


Don't forget how their heads split once they reach a certain age.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

People who, when you use the wrong turn of phrase, correct you over and over and over, even when you explain that wasn't what you meant and agree with them! Admittedly it must be annoying seeing the same phrases used, but not everyone is a complete muppet, neither have they all been reading the same threads for years. So give everyone the benefit of the doubt, like when I get this sort of enquiry for my kune kune pigs:
Are they micropigs? No, there's no such thing.
Are they "miniature deluxe "? No, those would be runts.
Can I keep them in the house? No, unless you don't mind your sofa being upended to root underneath.
You only sell in pairs, but can I just have 1? No.
Even if I have a dog? No
But the dog wants a freind and I've always wanted a pig? No, they are different species with different needs. "Babe" is make believe!
She's quite old, she wouldn't like a puppy. No, get 2 piglets together when she's passed away.
Well, can you recommend someone I could get 1 from? No.
Etc!
I try patience for 5 minutes chat or 3 emails, after that I let rip. Told someone today I would rather sell to a smallholder for pork than to her as a pet, I hope she finally got it.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> Don't forget how their heads split once they reach a certain age.


And dobermann's brains outgrow their skulls and they turn *nods*. SM is horrible but has it ever been seen in dobes?


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2015)

lostbear said:


> Agree to a degree - but you'd be surprised how many very expensive puppies ARE bought on a whim, and dumped into rescue she the buyer finds that they are hard work.


Oh trust me I believe that. The lady who I got Cosmo from got him from a breeder in a place named Scapoose, had him for 2 whole weeks, and then decided he was too much work because she worked graveyard. (You think you'd consider that before dropping 800 dollars!) She told me he was an "extremely hyper puppy" and I would have a nightmare on my hands and warned me as if she was trying to make sure I could handle such a creature, (there were times I almost thought maybe she was trying to tell me she wanted to keep him or something because the way she was almost talking me OUT of it) but being me I was determined to make it work HOWEVER he is the calmest aussie I have ever met and has been since I got him a 2 and a half months old! The problem? She was putting him in his crate all day while she was at work and when she came home and wanted to sleep he was wired from being locked up for 8 hours! (I assume he got potty breaks but the way she said it he really didn't get much else - hence her rehoming him)

Now most days he's the one telling ME he's too tired to do all the activities and shenanigans I get into. Bless my little craigslist puppy.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2015)

Oh and another one I thought of, people who tell people they can't own a certain breed of dog in an apartment. Aussies aren't "apartment dogs" but he has lived with me in an apartment and he's done marvelously, not to mentioned we're moving back into an apartment in December and yes - he's going with me. HONESTLY any dog can be an apartment dog, as long as the owner takes the initiative to take them out every day. Cosmo doesn't need a 400 acre yard. He just needs a room to rest at night and me to take him on adventures in the day.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

chickenfoot said:


> I agree, but I feel like most shelter dogs are the result of BAD breeding or backyard breeding or "accidents". This is because breeders put a lot of work into finding their dogs good homes, and people pay good money to get those dogs so clearly they aren't bought on a whim. So instead of getting rid of the only good form of breeding why not rag on the actual problem


A lot is down to the person who buys the dog. A good breeder can end up selling to a bad owner unwittingly, Alfie was one such, at 20 months he was rehomed to me, I contacted the breeder and she was fuming that they hadn't gone back to her as agreed.
Then there's the good caring owner who innocently buys from a puppy farm

Not all BYBs are bad. I know a very very good one that knows as much about her lines and health requirements as any top show breeder.
Oh and being a show breeder doesn't make you good


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2015)

rona said:


> A lot is down to the person who buys the dog. A good breeder can end up selling to a bad owner unwittingly, Alfie was one such, at 20 months he was rehomed to me, I contacted the breeder and she was fuming that they hadn't gone back to her as agreed.
> Then there's the good caring owner who innocently buys from a puppy farm
> 
> Not all BYBs are bad. I know a very very good one that knows as much about her lines and health requirements as any top show breeder.
> Oh and being a show breeder doesn't make you good


Very true! Thank you for adding. Guess I didn't put as much thought into my post as I wanted to get across. By BYB I was aiming that as a negative comment towards people who buy dogs and breed them for the extra cash, but now that I think about it you're right - BYB can also be people who truly care about their animals and take precautions as any "reputable" breeder would.

I lost 200 dollars to a "reputable" breeder who decided to change her policy after the fact and didn't give me back my "refundable" deposit. I had lost my job and didn't have the money for a puppy at the time and she still urged me to take one of hers and didn't give me back my deposit. Selling puppies to people who are TELLING you they aren't ready for one. Charming!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

DITTO to MOST of the foregoing (but not ALL)


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

My pet hate is people who are willing to give up on the dog or give the dog away without trying to solve the problem


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Nicky10 said:


> Yes people with fat dogs who see nothing wrong. Don't go on pug groups, they're soul destroying.
> 
> The hybrid vigour myth, or randomly bred dogs for "just" pets are automatically healthier than show dogs. Pets don't need to be healthy or have a good temperament right?
> 
> A dog fb page I'm on is really good except that so many people post photos of cropped dobe puppies and there's so much cooing over party hats or how cute they look while undergoing the months of after care it takes


Not sure what you mean on the dobys Can you explain?


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2015)

Rott lover said:


> Not sure what you mean on the dobys Can you explain?


Cropped ears on dobermans = taping for months to get them to stand. Therefore pups with taped up/bandaged ears being "cute".


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Cropped ears on dobermans = taping for months to get them to stand. Therefore pups with taped up/bandaged ears being "cute".


AHHH ok.Ya we always had that done too.It does not look cute.I have had a couple of them left without any of that done and i thought they were waaaay cuter with long floppy ears.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Yeah one person's had the ears taped to a paper cup and everyone was cooing over party hats . Cute puppy but I just avoided the posts


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2015)

Rott lover said:


> AHHH ok.Ya we always had that done too.It does not look cute.I have had a couple of them left without any of that done and i thought they were waaaay cuter with long floppy ears.


I keep my mouth shut about taped ears as best I can, but I just can't see any legitimate reason why you would put an 8 week old pup under GA for an aesthetic procedure that requires months of taping etc. Docking I can understand the reasoning even if I may not agree with it. Cropping is just... well, back to keeping my mouth shut....


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

ouesi said:


> I keep my mouth shut about taped ears as best I can, but I just can't see any legitimate reason why you would put an 8 week old pup under GA for an aesthetic procedure that requires months of taping etc. Docking I can understand the reasoning even if I may not agree with it. Cropping is just... well, back to keeping my mouth shut....


We did it because that was the standard for them here.Out of all the puppies we had we only kept a couple but we left them all natural except the dew claws.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

We did have one that we did do all of it to but it was meant to be for a close family friend that wanted one.


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

I think more people have to look at what they have not successfully taught their own dogs to do or not do rather than what others have not successfully taught their dogs to do or not do.

So many posts about other dogs issues, when it actually turns out that the other dogs minor issue would not have really been an issue if your dog didn't have major issues


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

kare said:


> I think more people have to look at what they have not successfully taught their own dogs to do or not do rather than what others have not successfully taught their dogs to do or not do.
> 
> So many posts about other dogs issues, when it actually turns out that the other dogs minor issue would not have really been an issue if your dog didn't have major issues


This is so harsh but so very true.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

People who refuse to see the negative side of a breed, or assume that the only breed traits passed down are the positive ones. Mostly seen in the pibbie mommy types but found in other breeds too.


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## Cami (Apr 18, 2012)

There are far far too many to count but my top one has got to be people buying any animal on a whim / without researching or knowing exactly what they are getting.
The other day I saw an advert for 2, 4 month old ferrets free as they didn't get along with their 2 year old daughter :Banghead


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Cami said:


> There are far far too many to count but my top one has got to be people buying any animal on a whim / without researching or knowing exactly what they are getting.
> The other day I saw an advert for 2, 4 month old ferrets free as they didn't get along with their 2 year old daughter :Banghead


Did they not read the ferret owners affectionately calling them carpet sharks?


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Nothing said on this forum really gets my blood going.
I learned a while ago that it's just not worth the hassle getting upset about anything said on a forum.


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## Sarahlou444 (Jun 26, 2015)

shirleystarr said:


> My pet hate is people who are willing to give up on the dog or give the dog away without trying to solve the problem


I definitely agree with you here, there have been a few threads along these lines recently. Must be so awful for the people who come to the heartbreaking decision to rehome their dog for genuine reasons to see people talking about rehoming there dog because they can't be bothered to toilet train them properly.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

Oh i can probably think of a few.

People who think that small dogs are in some way inferior to bigger dogs. 
People who think small dogs are all 'yappy ankle biters'
People who still try to stroke my dog even when i have asked them not to and she is growling and showing teeth. She may be cute but can you not see she does not want your attention?!
People who think their pet needs to experience motherhood/ have one litter before being spayed or neutered. 
Food snobbery.
Designer cross breeds for money. [i had a lot to say here but i got all ranty so i took it out haha]


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Amelia66 said:


> Oh i can probably think of a few.
> 
> People who think that small dogs are in some way inferior to bigger dogs.
> People who think small dogs are all 'yappy ankle biters'
> ...


Thats very good that you took it out.Who wants a long winded yappy inferior little dog owner whos little dog loves the attention of all people


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

breeding!


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Cropped ears on dobermans = taping for months to get them to stand. Therefore pups with taped up/bandaged ears being "cute".


Oh, it finally makes sense. I thought cropping was cutting, like cropping your hair. I thought, surely it's not legal to cut a dog's ears to shape?


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Catharinem said:


> Oh, it finally makes sense. I thought cropping was cutting, like cropping your hair. I thought, surely it's not legal to cut a dog's ears to shape?


Not in the UK and many European countries. However, I believe, there are still some European countries and some US states where ear cropping is still legal. Also in south America.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Catharinem said:


> Oh, it finally makes sense. I thought cropping was cutting, like cropping your hair. I thought, surely it's not legal to cut a dog's ears to shape?


I wish it was personally.But being that it was breed standard to have it done we fallowed it unless they were ours and we just didn't care.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

bogdog said:


> Not in the UK and many European countries. However, I believe, there are still some European countries and some US states where ear cropping is still legal. Also in south America.


All states in US


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Rott lover said:


> All states in US


Wow, I thought some had banned it. Thanks for putting me right.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Ear-cropping is still widely practiced in the United States and parts of Canada, with approximately 130,000 puppies in the United States thought to have their ears cropped each year TheAmerican and Canadian Kennel Clubs both permit the practice.The American Kennel Club (AKC) position is that ear cropping and tail docking are "acceptable practices integral to defining and preserving breed character and/or enhancing good health.While some individual states have attempted to ban ear-cropping,there is strong opposition from some dog breed organizations, who cite health concerns and tradition.


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Rott lover said:


> Ear-cropping is still widely practiced in the United States and parts of Canada, with approximately 130,000 puppies in the United States thought to have their ears cropped each year TheAmerican and Canadian Kennel Clubs both permit the practice.The American Kennel Club (AKC) position is that ear cropping and tail docking are "acceptable practices integral to defining and preserving breed character and/or enhancing good health.While some individual states have attempted to ban ear-cropping,there is strong opposition from some dog breed organizations, who cite health concerns and tradition.


Can a county ban ear cropping? How is ear cropping enhancing good health I wonder.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

bogdog said:


> Wow, I thought some had banned it. Thanks for putting me right.


You are welcome.For us we left one of our own doby pups with only having the dew claws removed.We were ridiculed and made fun of and all sorts of things.It got really bad when people found out we did it on purpose.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

So what is it? Cutting or taping? Or a bit of both?

Not sure why breed standard matters for this sort of thing, people can choose to buy a mutilated dog or not. When I bought my first cocker I looked long and hard for a breeder who didn't dock. Surely it's better to breed a healthy dog of sound temperament, and if it has faults it just does - though if 99.9% of ears flop unless taped up for months, surely the ones that prick by themselves are the fault? Shouldn't breed standard mean standard for the breed? Siamese have breed history of squints in the eyes and kinky tails, but they have been more or less eradicated by careful breeding, with a fault in one parent being compensated by that same point being the strongest in the other parent. You don't get the same attitude of cutting bits off in cat breeding, you wouldn't for instance cut off the last joint to keep the tail straight.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

The practice is illegal across most of Europe, including all countries that have ratified the European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals, and most member countries of theFédération Cynologique Internationale.It is illegal in parts of Spain and in some Canadian provinces.The situation in Italy is unclear; the ban effective 14 January 2007 may no longer be in force.

The American Veterinary Medical Association "opposes ear cropping and tail docking of dogs when done solely for cosmetic purposes" and "encourages the elimination of ear cropping and tail docking from breed standards"Specifically, the AVMA "has recommended to the American Kennel Club and appropriate breed associations that action be taken to delete mention of cropped or trimmed ears from breed standards for dogs and to prohibit the showing of dogs with cropped or trimmed ears if such animals were born after some reasonable date" Some national chains of veterinary hospitals have voluntarily ceased to perform cosmetic surgeries on dogs. The American Humane Association opposes ear-cropping "unless it is medically necessary, as determined by a licensed veterinarian"

It has been suggested the cropping may interfere with a dog's ability to communicate using ear signals; there has been no scientific comparative study of ear communication in cropped and uncropped dogs.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2015)

Ear cropping and after care depend on breed. For example, some guarding breeds are cropped very close to the head to prevent injuries during an altercation with a predator or intruder. 

Breeds like Great Danes and Dobermans are cropped for tradition basically. It's a long crop and to get the ears to stand, they are taped in position for anywhere from 4 months to almost a year. 

It is legal in all 50 states, but it's not as easy at that. Vets that will crop and are able to do it "right" (to the breed's aesthetics), are a dying breed. There are very few vets left who know how to do a long show crop, and so fewer people are cropping now. 
I've seen a huge change in the breed ring in the last 10 years alone, much more natural eared dogs in the ring than ever. I expect it will die out entirely (except for a few traditionalist hold-outs) in my lifetime.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Catharinem said:


> So what is it? Cutting or taping? Or a bit of both?
> 
> Not sure why breed standard matters for this sort of thing, people can choose to buy a mutilated dog or not. When I bought my first cocker I looked long and hard for a breeder who didn't dock. Surely it's better to breed a healthy dog of sound temperament, and if it has faults it just does - though if 99.9% of ears flop unless taped up for months, surely the ones that prick by themselves are the fault? Shouldn't breed standard mean standard for the breed? Siamese have breed history of squints in the eyes and kinky tails, but they have been more or less eradicated by careful breeding, with a fault in one parent being compensated by that same point being the strongest in the other parent. You don't get the same attitude of cutting bits off in cat breeding, you wouldn't for instance cut off the last joint to keep the tail straight.


They Cut the ears to a specific shape and then put something between the ears and tape the ears to them to make the cartilage in the ears stiffen while growing so the ears stand up.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Ear cropping and after care depend on breed. For example, some guarding breeds are cropped very close to the head to prevent injuries during an altercation with a predator or intruder.
> 
> Breeds like Great Danes and Dobermans are cropped for tradition basically. It's a long crop and to get the ears to stand, they are taped in position for anywhere from 4 months to almost a year.
> 
> ...


All of my knowledge is 20 plus years old.I havent had a doberman since i was about 18.I am now 40 so its been a bit.Just like here as you can see by the pictures all the rotts here also have docked tails.The only thing i am a true fan of is dew claw removal


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

The type of Siamese that had squints, as I remember, were quite different in body shape. Am I right? Normal sort of head and body shape as opposed to the elongated Siamese of today. So what happened to the breed standard? Has it been altered to change the head and body shape? In fact, if my memory doesn't deceive me, there are 3 types of Siamese - the traditional, classic and modern. So whilst bits are not chopped off, bits are changed in shape.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Rott lover said:


> They Cut the ears to a specific shape and then put something between the ears and tape the ears to them to make the cartilage in the ears stiffen while growing so the ears stand up.


 that's horrible!


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Catharinem said:


> that's horrible!


Yes i feel it is as well.And it is just for show.Who made those idiot rules?Oh lets put the dog through all this extra (ahem)stuff and charge a ton just for the ears to look a certain way even though it has absolutely no benefit to the dog.The rotty tails i have seen a few with tails and have known people with them and in my opinion they are much better with a nubby.Well maybe they are not but i know my legs are


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Apparently buying a cropped breed from a good breeder, especially dobes, in those countries means you have to get a cropped dog. Because if you return it they won't be able to sell the puppies . It's horrible and can take months of aftercare. Cropping has been illegal in the UK for over 100 years and docking for about a decade now, except for working gundogs and terriers.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Idiots (and I use the word advisedly) that allow their untrained bouncy dogs to gallop up to mine when I'm hurriedly putting on leads and hobbling away or worse, when I ask them to call away their dog and they do the whole 'Oh, mine's really friendly/just wants to play' or worse 'Well, you shouldn't have an aggressive dog out in public'. Cos I should walk him on the moon, at midnight. Of course. And actually, he's fine if your dog isn't trying to hump his face, thank you very much. 

People who buy a breed because it's fashionable. I told a mate I wouldn't talk to her again if she bought a pug.

People who breed for colour/money and those who don't health test thoroughly.

Puppy farms: how are they allowed? 

People who don't research the breed then can't/won't cope then advertise with pathetic reasons.

Chavvy teenagers who want their dog to fight my dog. Their dog is either a staff or lately, a mastiff type.



diefenbaker said:


> Heart muscles


I like you.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

bogdog said:


> The type of Siamese that had squints, as I remember, were quite different in body shape. Am I right? Normal sort of head and body shape as opposed to the elongated Siamese of today. So what happened to the breed standard? Has it been altered to change the head and body shape? In fact, if my memory doesn't deceive me, there are 3 types of Siamese - the traditional, classic and modern. So whilst bits are not chopped off, bits are changed in shape.


The breed standard hasn't changed, it's the way it's interpreted. So slim (compared to other cat breeds) was interpreted to mean "the slimmer the better" by judges, ditto wide set ears became "as wide as possible". You can see the difference between "real" Siamese and modern monstrosities ( guess which I prefer!) if you compare these 2 cats. This is Lintama Apollo (no squint!), in my eyes everything a Siamese should be.














And this is Karamushi Cheeky Chester. In my eyes he is too elongated and his ears are too big, also his colouration is not consistent with the original 4 colours of seal, choc, blue or lilac. Others would argue the point.

There are people out there breeding traditional type Siamese to try to keep the wonderful look alive, and not let it be taken over by people who prefer the modern, typey look. Here in UK they are both Siamese, but in Germany the "old style Siamese" is now called Thai, and Siamese are what we in the UK think of as typey. The story about how the Siamese got their squint and kinky tail goes that a royal goblet was stolen, and when the cats of the temple found it they curled their tails round it and stared at it so long that they developed a squint and a kinky tail. Another story is that princesses used to put their rings on the cats' tails to keep them safe whilst they bathed. Lovely stories, but faults none the less, which are being bred out of both traditional and modern Siamese, though they will pop up now and again in both types.


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Catharinem said:


> The breed standard hasn't changed, it's the way it's interpreted. So slim (compared to other cat breeds) was interpreted to mean "the slimmer the better" by judges, ditto wide set ears became "as wide as possible". You can see the difference between "real" Siamese and modern monstrosities ( guess which I prefer!) if you compare these 2 cats. This is Lintama Apollo (no squint!), in my eyes everything a Siamese should be.
> View attachment 243507
> View attachment 243508
> And this is Karamushi Cheeky Chester. In my eyes he is too elongated and his ears are too big, also his colouration is not consistent with the original 4 colours of seal, choc, blue or lilac. Others would argue the point.
> ...


Not much difference than between the (mis)interpretation of cat standards and dog standards then? LOL. Many breeds of dogs have changed for the worse and I don't mean just looks. I certainly don't like the exaggerated Siamese or Havanese (who are not even called that now) but I guess people don't like normal, ordinary looking dogs and cats.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Catharinem said:


> ThThe story about how the Siamese got their squint and kinky tail goes that a royal goblet was stolen, and when the cats of the temple found it they curled their tails round it and stared at it so long that they developed a squint and a kinky tail.


That's really interesting, I never knew the old legends behind it. Of course the reality is a malformation of the nerves at the back of the eyes!

I've always called the traditional Siamese appleheads. Is this an official term?


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Shoshannah said:


> That's really interesting, I never knew the old legends behind it. Of course the reality is a malformation of the nerves at the back of the eyes.
> 
> I've always called the traditional Siamese appleheads. Is this an official term?


I think Appleheads is an American term, and a bit frowned on over here as there is a suspicion they were made rounder faced again by cross breeding out rather than doing it the long, selective way. I use traditional or old style, I think classic is the same. Then the other kind is modern, show type, typey. Loads of info on Lintama website, Leslie owns Apollo and I've used her Chang in the past.


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## Linda2147 (Sep 26, 2013)

What really frosts me is people selling "designer" dogs. Back in the day these used to be called accidents, now they give them a fancy name, sell at an outrageous price and call it a designer breed. You could probably find the same mix at a shelter instead of lining the pockets of irresponsible breeders encouraging them to breed more. People think they are getting something special, its a mutt with a fancy name. I have nothing against mixed breeds, they all need a home but to deliberately breed them while shelter and rescue dogs are dying is just plain wrong!


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## E.Lab.Lover (Jul 21, 2015)

People that jump on their high horse when asked a simple question and judge you and put you down thinking they are better than you.

BYB
Puppy farms
Animal cruelty
Owners that think they can do what they like coz they own it.

Owners that think there 'rudely' behaved dog is fine and that's just how it is, people that just don't bother putting the training effort in.

People that don't research breeds they want/do get. And then wonder why they can't cope.

'deisgner' breeds, the mixing of two breeds and inventing a new name and putting a high price.....NO THEY ARE A SIMPLE CROSS BREED THAT SHOULDNT OF BEEN CROSSED!

People that come to your home and you ask them not to do something to your dog and they do it anyway coz they don't mind . E.g.. you have a puppy and you ask not to let it jump up or all over you, they carry on coz they don't mind...well you will mind if he does it fully grown

The list , could go on but ill stop there:Happy
​


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> The breed standard hasn't changed, it's the way it's interpreted. So slim (compared to other cat breeds) was interpreted to mean "the slimmer the better" by judges, ditto wide set ears became "as wide as possible". You can see the difference between "real" Siamese and modern monstrosities ( guess which I prefer!) if you compare these 2 cats. This is Lintama Apollo (no squint!), in my eyes everything a Siamese should be.
> View attachment 243507
> View attachment 243508
> And this is Karamushi Cheeky Chester. In my eyes he is too elongated and his ears are too big, also his colouration is not consistent with the original 4 colours of seal, choc, blue or lilac. Others would argue the point.
> ...


I am very ignorant over cats but your first photo is of a siamese in my mind and the second photo is of a very weird looking cat that has gone a bit wrong!


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Look at this one then!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Shoshannah said:


> Look at this one then!


That is just awful, sorry cat people.

I like the look of siameses but the old fashioned type, not this scary looking big eared gremlin. Oops, sorry again.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2015)

Siskin said:


> That is just awful, sorry cat people.
> 
> I like the look of siameses but the old fashioned type, not this scary looking big eared gremlin. Oops, sorry again.


Ha! That's funny but I actually prefer the old look, I think it's very interesting and unique. I also like hairless cats so I guess I'm a bit biased in that way


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> The breed standard hasn't changed, it's the way it's interpreted. So slim (compared to other cat breeds) was interpreted to mean "the slimmer the better" by judges, ditto wide set ears became "as wide as possible". You can see the difference between "real" Siamese and modern monstrosities ( guess which I prefer!) if you compare these 2 cats. This is Lintama Apollo (no squint!), in my eyes everything a Siamese should be.
> View attachment 243507
> View attachment 243508
> And this is Karamushi Cheeky Chester. In my eyes he is too elongated and his ears are too big, also his colouration is not consistent with the original 4 colours of seal, choc, blue or lilac. Others would argue the point.
> ...


My girl (traditional seal point) has Lintama in her lines


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Shoshannah said:


> That's really interesting, I never knew the old legends behind it. Of course the reality is a malformation of the nerves at the back of the eyes!
> 
> I've always called the traditional Siamese appleheads. Is this an official term?


Ive always known them as appleheads too
as you know i dont have cats, but, i have two friends who breed both types of meezers, and they too refer to them as appleheads or oriental heads to differentiate


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Shoshannah said:


> Look at this one then!





Siskin said:


> That is just awful, sorry cat people.
> 
> I like the look of siameses but the old fashioned type, not this scary looking big eared gremlin. Oops, sorry again.


I feel so sorry for the cat, bred to be an object of ridicule.
Hope it's okay.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Shoshannah said:


> Look at this one then!


 Yes, that's a guy who breeds both Orientals and Siamese. I think that's Changablack isn't it?, an Oriental. The guy is a judge as well as a breeder, that's what they like, those sort get the rosette's and become champions, and everyone wants to put their queen to a champion and so it continues. Thank goodness for the Old Style Siamese Club, and people like Leslie Green and Margaret Lindgren, that's all I can say! Long live Proper Siamese - The Original And Still The Best!


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Siskin said:


> That is just awful, sorry cat people.
> 
> I like the look of siameses but the old fashioned type, not this scary looking big eared gremlin. Oops, sorry again.


Don't be sorry, I'm a cat person and I agree with you.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> My girl (traditional seal point) has Lintama in her lines


 Gorgeous! Now that's what I'm talking about!


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Shoshannah said:


> Look at this one then!


Aaarhhhhhh. Heeeelp! Is it a bat? Is it a vampire? I'll have nightmares now.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

mrs phas said:


> Ive always known them as appleheads too
> as you know i dont have cats, but, i have two friends who breed both types of meezers, and they too refer to them as appleheads or oriental heads to differentiate


Does each friend breed both types, or one breed each type? The people I know who breed old style/traditional love how they look, and want to get back to how Siamese "should" be, and are very defensive of their history.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> Does each friend breed both types, or one breed each type? The people I know who breed old style/traditional love how they look, and want to get back to how Siamese "should" be, and are very defensive of their history.


I'm not a fan of the extreme 'typey' Oris & Siamese that win at shows either, same applies to the noseless Persians that have become the norm. When I was growing up (80s) the traditional 'doll faced' Persians were the accepted type, the extreme brachy type was known as 'Peke-faced' was the considerably less common type & was looked down upon by the adults I knew who were in the breed.

Like the typey Orientals, these are what is winning at shows. We've seen what breeding for extremes has done to a lot of dog breeds, it's incredibly sad that the cat fancy (& quite a few other species as well) seems to be heading the same way, & very depressing that the most exaggerated of breeds are being rewarded while healthy, moderate & beautiful examples of breeds often don't get placed


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm not a fan of the extreme 'typey' Oris & Siamese that win at shows either, same applies to the noseless Persians that have become the norm. When I was growing up (80s) the traditional 'doll faced' Persians were the accepted type, the extreme brachy type was known as 'Peke-faced' was the considerably less common type & was looked down upon by the adults I knew who were in the breed.
> 
> Like the typey Orientals, these are what is winning at shows. We've seen what breeding for extremes has done to a lot of dog breeds, it's incredibly sad that the cat fancy (& quite a few other species as well) seems to be heading the same way, & very depressing that the most exaggerated of breeds are being rewarded while healthy, moderate & beautiful examples of breeds often don't get placed


Maybe we have to go down the route Germany has taken ( no personal experience of other parts of Europe). There, the Old Style Siamese is now known as the Thai, and is treated as a different breed to Siamese, so is given its chance to shine. But an Old Style Siamese from the UK can be registered as a Thai over there. There was some discussion about it here in UK, might be the only way to keep what we like and reward sensible breeding of beautiful cats. If it happens I wouldn't like to lose the name Siamese though - we (old style) were here first, so why should we lose the breed name?


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

I had a Persian with a nose and much preferred her type to those now bred. I would love a chinchilla cat sometime in the future, but don't like their squashed faces. What happened to the Kosset carpets chinchilla type?


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Catharinem said:


> Maybe we have to go down the route Germany has taken ( no personal experience of other parts of Europe). There, the Old Style Siamese is now known as the Thai, and is treated as a different breed to Siamese, so is given its chance to shine. But an Old Style Siamese from the UK can be registered as a Thai over there. There was some discussion about it here in UK, might be the only way to keep what we like and reward sensible breeding of beautiful cats. If it happens I wouldn't like to lose the name Siamese though - we (old style) were here first, so why should we lose the breed name?


Absolutely agree on keeping the name for the type that was here first. If people create a new breed, they should create a new name and not ride on the reputation of the original type. Maybe more people would want the original breed rather than the new fancy types that they are presented with and assume that is the correct breed/type.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Catharinem said:


> Yes, that's a guy who breeds both Orientals and Siamese. I think that's Changablack isn't it?, an Oriental. The guy is a judge as well as a breeder, that's what they like, those sort get the rosette's and become champions, and everyone wants to put their queen to a champion and so it continues. Thank goodness for the Old Style Siamese Club, and people like Leslie Green and Margaret Lindgren, that's all I can say! Long live Proper Siamese - The Original And Still The Best!


I'm not sure who it is TBH and bow to your superior knowledge. I decided to Google 'Siamese' in images and was surprised to see - in a positive way - that the majority of photos popping up were of traditional Siamese. I saw this fellow amongst them and was shocked!

I've never seen ears like that on a cat before.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

bogdog said:


> I had a Persian with a nose and much preferred her type to those now bred. I would love a chinchilla cat sometime in the future, but don't like their squashed faces. What happened to the Kosset carpets chinchilla type?


This is the type my auntie had when I was growing up (taken off Google but you get the general idea, IIRC they were silver tabby Persians she had)


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

My Persian was black, her face was fuller and slightly more round, cobby body. Very nice.

And she could breathe quietly. LOL. So why change that?


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> This is the type my auntie had when I was growing up (taken off Google but you get the general idea, IIRC they were silver tabby Persians she had)


Lovely, and looks like she can breathe too!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

So with pde and all the attacks on dog breeding with people assuming all dogs are like the most extreme, where's the same outrage for cats? I can't imagine persians breathe any easier than a pug?


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> So with pde and all the attacks on dog breeding with people assuming all dogs are like the most extreme, where's the same outrage for cats? I can't imagine persians breathe any easier than a pug?


That's what we're saying! Just as dogs like pugs have developed problems due to flatter and flatter noses, so certain cat breeds are having problems. As long as people breed ( and get rosettes) for the more extreme type there will be problems, when enough people demand "proper, old fashioned" animals the trend will decline and the health problems can start to be controlled. I think the first rule for any breed should be that it be capable of a natural mating and birth ( excluding exceptions/complications), have a good quality of life, be able to exhibit natural behaviour, and have an average life expectancy. This should be true of both cats and dogs.


----------



## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> So with pde and all the attacks on dog breeding with people assuming all dogs are like the most extreme, where's the same outrage for cats? I can't imagine persians breathe any easier than a pug?


Because dogs are more in the public eye???? How many Persians or Siamese do you see in the streets?


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Catharinem said:


> That's what we're saying! Just as dogs like pugs have developed problems due to flatter and flatter noses, so certain cat breeds are having problems. As long as people breed ( and get rosettes) for the more extreme type there will be problems, when enough people demand "proper, old fashioned" animals the trend will decline and the health problems can start to be controlled. I think the first rule for any breed should be that it be capable of a natural mating and birth ( excluding exceptions/complications), have a good quality of life, be able to exhibit natural behaviour, and have an average life expectancy. This should be true of both cats and dogs.


They did change the breed standards for dogs but what pedigree cats just lie around the house all day so it's ok if they can't breathe?


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

bogdog said:


> Because dogs are more in the public eye???? How many Persians or Siamese do you see in the streets?


True my sister's friend has a short-haired persian, they're a different breed right? And you can hear him breathe all the time. He's the sweetest cat ever but it's horrible. And he's from a good breeder as far as I know


----------



## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Catharinem said:


> That's what we're saying! Just as dogs like pugs have developed problems due to flatter and flatter noses, so certain cat breeds are having problems. As long as people breed ( and get rosettes) for the more extreme type there will be problems,* when enough people demand "proper, old fashioned" animals the trend will decline and the health problems can start to be controlled.* I think the first rule for any breed should be that it be capable of a natural mating and birth ( excluding exceptions/complications), have a good quality of life, be able to exhibit natural behaviour, and have an average life expectancy. This should be true of both cats and dogs.


That's the problem - how many people know what a proper old fashioned breed should look like? And many prefer 'extreme' or 'rare' so they don't care as long as they've got the 'only one' in the street, village, town.....


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> True my sister's friend has a short-haired persian, they're a different breed right? And you can hear him breathe all the time. He's the sweetest cat ever but it's horrible. And he's from a good breeder as far as I know


Haha good breeder - says who? The breeder? Sorry, am becoming too cynical, time to walk the dogs.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

bogdog said:


> Haha good breeder - says who? The breeder? Sorry, am becoming too cynical, time to walk the dogs.


The show people breeding for pekes that can barely walk and breathe at the same time think they're good breeders too . I'm not sure of the details but he's from a show breeder, extensive socialisation, came home at 14 weeks etc.


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> The show people breeding for pekes that can barely walk and breathe at the same time think they're good breeders too . I'm not sure of the details but he's from a show breeder, extensive socialisation, came home at 14 weeks etc.


Yeah... A good breeder, in my opinion, breeds for health first, looks second. If they breed to standard, then there should be no exaggeration, as no standard I've ever read said: ears so long that the dog should trip over them, or roach top line where the standard calls for a straight top line? And pekes too. They used to look like Tibetan spaniels...... sigh.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> True my sister's friend has a short-haired persian, they're a different breed right? And you can hear him breathe all the time. He's the sweetest cat ever but it's horrible. And he's from a good breeder as far as I know


Sounds like an Exotic Shorthair Nicky, & you're right, they do have noisy breathing


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Shoshannah said:


> Look at this one then!


is that actually a cat. What a comical looking creature.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

At risk of being beaten to death... I totally love that weird bat cat!!
Are there health issues associated with such wide set (side set?!) ears or is it just because he's so far gone from what the breed "should" look like?


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> They did change the breed standards for dogs but what pedigree cats just lie around the house all day so it's ok if they can't breathe?


No, it's not ok. Dogs or cats, health should come first.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Shoshannah said:


> I've never seen ears like that on a cat before.


 Young Orientals tend to have huge ears, as do Siamese, like dogs they grow in to them. All of mine looked like batfinks as kittens.

All 4 of my Siamese have done well in shows and none are extreme.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BlueJay said:


> At risk of being beaten to death... I totally love that weird bat cat!!
> Are there health issues associated with such wide set (side set?!) ears or is it just because he's so far gone from what the breed "should" look like?


Nope no health issues.I like them too I'd love an Oriental or Foreign White, first choice would be a white


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Nope no health issues.I like them too I'd love an Oriental or Foreign White, first choice would be a white


You've sent me on a cat googling mission now lol
I don't know what this is but I want one!
It looks like some majestic mythical beast










See, I really like those mad werewolf cats too (lykois?)... but can't work out if they are defective or not!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BlueJay said:


> You've sent me on a cat googling mission now lol
> I don't know what this is but I want one!
> It looks like some majestic mythical beast
> 
> ...


I do and I know the breeder and cat  will PM you


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'd rather have one of these. And I prefer the older style siamese


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Catharinem said:


> Yes, that's a guy who breeds both Orientals and Siamese. I think that's Changablack isn't it?, an Oriental. The guy is a judge as well as a breeder, that's what they like, those sort get the rosette's and become champions, and everyone wants to put their queen to a champion and so it continues. Thank goodness for the Old Style Siamese Club, and people like Leslie Green and Margaret Lindgren, that's all I can say! Long live Proper Siamese - The Original And Still The Best!


It's an Oriental Havana!

Ross is a judge and breeder and also has been involved in the breed for decades, Siamese and Orientals I hope to get a foreign from him in the future


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

BlueJay said:


> At risk of being beaten to death... I totally love that weird bat cat!!
> Are there health issues associated with such wide set (side set?!) ears or is it just because he's so far gone from what the breed "should" look like?


As far as I'm aware there are not (yet) health problems associated with the huge ears ( unless you count the risk of being picked up by the wind and dumped a few miles away!). That cat is an Oriental, not a Siamese, although matings between the 2 are acceptable, and many breeders breed both Orientals and Siamese. If you like, you can think of a Siamese as a pointed Oriental, or an Oriental as a solid coloured Siamese. Purists only allow that "pure 24 series" are Siamese, as other colours have come from outcrosses which have then kept the colouration but been diluted down until they are counted as pure again. 24 series is 24 (seal), 24a (blue), 24b(choc) and 24c(lilac), all the other colours (like 32b3) are recent.

Whilst there don't appear to be health problems with the ears ( correct me if I'm wrong Shosh, I don't have huge eared cats), I know from talking to friends and other breeders that certain colours can be a lot weaker. A friend of a friend has lost quite a few red points and cream points very young, my friend was waiting for a kitten from her and was twice told that her chosen kitten had died, then that there would be no more as the red point stud had also died. I think the problem is too much inbreeding for fashionable colours, caramels, fawn etc, which are recessive, so if you mated seal to choc you might have many generations before you got your "wanted" colour, but you can almost guarantee your colour by choosing parents which themselves are showing pale points (apricots, fawn etc). But because of the rarity of them, there is by necessity (if you can't wait years for the "right" result) a fair degree of inbreeding, which in turn leads to problems.

My first Siamese lived into their 20s, and this wasn't considered unusual. Nowadays they can get all sorts of problems, and may not last much after 12.

My first objection to modern Siamese is just pure nostalgia for what the breed "should" look like, and sadness that something of exceptional beauty has been messed about with to create a look which to me is no longer what a Siamese stands for. Thankfully the Old Style Siamese Club is working to keep the breed true to it's origins.

But even if I could see a beauty in the modern look ( and I fully accept that beauty is in the eye of the beholder), I would be very concerned about the life expectancy of modern type Siamese compared to the Old Style.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

BlueJay said:


> You've sent me on a cat googling mission now lol
> I don't know what this is but I want one!
> It looks like some majestic mythical beast
> 
> ...


Oriental Longhair I can sort of see the attraction, and so far from pointed, shorthaired oriental that it doesn't grate.

Not Lykois though, they are neither one thing nor the other, look like they used to be longhaired before they caught mange!


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

BlueJay said:


> See, I really like those mad werewolf cats too (lykois?)... but can't work out if they are defective or not!


I've just googled them.
Oh my!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

How did they get that coat?


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

silvi said:


> I've just googled them.
> Oh my!


I've just googled them too..
I don't know whether to adore them or be scared of them


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Nettles said:


> I've just googled them too..
> I don't know whether to adore them or be scared of them


It's like the cat in Bluejay's post. They all look 'other-worldly'
And I quite agree


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## Linda2147 (Sep 26, 2013)

I googled them, prices start at $2500 for pet quality. And I thought my bengal was expensive!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I want a cat from this lovely lady in Dublin  Love her cats! Don't want a Don Sphynx! She is a lovely lady and her cats are spoilt rotten!!!


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

From the belly down it looks like a raw chicken :Chicken


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Nettles said:


> From the belly down it looks like a raw chicken :Chicken


They may look like a chicken, but they feel lovely, really strokeable, like a peach!

I


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> They may look like a chicken, but they feel lovely, really strokeable, like a peach!
> 
> I


Fantastic personalities too, great cats


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> They may look like a chicken, but they feel lovely, really strokeable, like a peach!
> 
> I


Yes but what do they taste like ?

Have I gone too far this time ?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

diefenbaker said:


> Yes but what do they taste like ?
> 
> Have I gone too far this time ?


It depends on the eye colour, that particular one I'd say is probably orange & blueberry flavour


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> They may look like a chicken, but they feel lovely, really strokeable, like a peach!
> 
> I


Well now I want to stroke one! That's not how I imagined them to feel..

My cat's giving me the evil eye as if to say "you're not shaving me"


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

I want Savannahs
I think they are pretty. Saw a brilliant black one with clear blacker spots!

I will call them Mycroft and Sherlock and they will be my boys!!


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Catharinem said:


> Does each friend breed both types, or one breed each type? The people I know who breed old style/traditional love how they look, and want to get back to how Siamese "should" be, and are very defensive of their history.


each breeds their 'type'
strangely despite same breed differentials, they themselves are best friends
they have even discussed using a stud apple on a virgin [is that the term?] oriental queen, so far theoretical as each is very protective over their own type


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Far too many! Haven't read the threads but the following wind me up, not enough to argue about because life is too short, but I will roll my eyes at the followng:


'Hybrids'
Spending hundreds on mongrels/designer dogs
'Hypo-allergenic' as a term
Bakers
Raw food making your dog vicious
People thinking cooked bones are fine to feed, and raw is dangerous
People who don't insure their dogs then can't afford treatment
Bad breeders
People with 'oh he's friendly' dogs
People who walk on the street without a lead
People who think their dogs anti-social or aggressive behaviour is okay because it's x breed
People thiking because it's x breed they can only be trained with punishment
Dominance theory, dominance training. The word dominance.
Breedists

etc etc


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Meezey said:


> View attachment 243622
> 
> View attachment 243624
> 
> I want a cat from this lovely lady in Dublin  Love her cats! Don't want a Don Sphynx! She is a lovely lady and her cats are spoilt rotten!!!


Sphynx are so adorable
Ive had nakkid rats
and I have a nakkid dog
nakkid cat is scrummy and apparently ese in attitude
so my dream breed -ese and nakkid


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Nettles said:


> Well now I want to stroke one! That's not how I imagined them to feel..
> 
> My cat's giving me the evil eye as if to say "you're not shaving me"


Have you been to any of the cat shows over here? Not shown my cats for a few years but it is a great placd too see and feel  cat breeds, some will not let you touch their cats ( more concerns in cat owners about cross infections than in dog owners) but hand sanitiser might offer you a chance


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

mrs phas said:


> Sphynx are so adorable
> Ive had nakkid rats
> and I have a nakkid dog
> nakkid cat is scrummy and apparently ese in attitude
> so my dream breed -ese and nakkid


I love Sphynx, not keen at all on the Don Sphynx but I will own one before I pop my clogs


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

mrs phas said:


> Sphynx are so adorable
> Ive had nakkid rats
> and I have a nakkid dog
> nakkid cat is scrummy and apparently ese in attitude
> so my dream breed -ese and nakkid


I had a naked rat, wonderful little thing she was, she had a little hair on her face & curly whiskers, we also had her sister who was an agouti furred


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Meezey said:


> View attachment 243622
> 
> View attachment 243624
> 
> I want a cat from this lovely lady in Dublin  Love her cats! Don't want a Don Sphynx! She is a lovely lady and her cats are spoilt rotten!!!


 Beauty in the eye etc. My friend has one, thinks he's gorgeous, but she knows we disagree on that subject.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I love Sphynx, not keen at all on the Don Sphynx but I will own one before I pop my clogs


Don Sphynx? Is that like a Peterbald?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> Don Sphynx? Is that like a Peterbald?


I think (might be wrong though) the Peterbald is derived from the Don


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I like Sphynx, but I do worry about their quality of life being affected as much as I feel the same way about the brachycephalic breeds. We see a lot of _Malassezia_ issues in Sphynx, which are of course manageable: but should we have cats that we can 'manage', when haired breeds don't have the problem at all? And I also worry about their ability to groom normally. Cat tongues are rough. I'm sure it must be uncomfortable for them to engage in normal prolonged grooming behaviour as other cats do.

I guess the arguments are the same as those that come up with pedigree dogs, though cats are less talked about as someone (sorry, don't remember who you were) mentioned further back on this thread.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Have you been to any of the cat shows over here? Not shown my cats for a few years but it is a great placd too see and feel  cat breeds, some will not let you touch their cats ( more concerns in cat owners about cross infections than in dog owners) but hand sanitiser might offer you a chance


Nope never been to any but it's my mission now to stroke a naked cat 

Edward likes to think he's posh and plays with the fancy cats. Hopefully he'll befriend a sphinx. He has two Manx friends, a Persian and what looks like a Siamese but with a huge black fluffy tail. The Manx are allowed outside but I fear he's helping the others escape


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> I think (might be wrong though) the Peterbald is derived from the Don


Thank you


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I love Sphynx, not keen at all on the Don Sphynx but I will own one before I pop my clogs


can i ask, apart from where they originated from and the fact that one is a dominant gene and one a recessive, why not a Don?
are they not as healthey, less friendly etc

As a non cat person Id really value your input as one day I will have a sphynx-ese


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

The ZOMG teh evol chemicals, everything must be natural people . Because some of the worst poisons we know of aren't entirely natural or anything

Anyone who talks about toxins


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Catharinem said:


> Don Sphynx? Is that like a Peterbald?


Peterbald was derived by the mating of Donsky ( Don) Sphynx with Siamese or Orientals. The most "common" Sphynx is the Candian.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

mrs phas said:


> can i ask, apart from where they originated from and the fact that one is a dominant gene and one a recessive, why not a Don?
> are they not as healthey, less friendly etc
> 
> As a non cat person Id really value your input as one day I will have a sphynx-ese


Donskys seem to have a lot more health issues, serious eye issues fused eyelids etc 

Of course give me a shout anytime


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Does the hairless gene in general come with health issues in cats? Or is it just certain types


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Shoshannah said:


> I like Sphynx, but I do worry about their quality of life being affected as much as I feel the same way about the brachycephalic breeds. We see a lot of _Malassezia_ issues in Sphynx, which are of course manageable: but should we have cats that we can 'manage', when haired breeds don't have the problem at all? And I also worry about their ability to groom normally. Cat tongues are rough. I'm sure it must be uncomfortable for them to engage in normal prolonged grooming behaviour as other cats do.
> 
> I guess the arguments are the same as those that come up with pedigree dogs, though cats are less talked about as someone (sorry, don't remember who you were) mentioned further back on this thread.


That can be an issue they do need bathed regularly


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Sorry, naked cats just make me cringe. Is it natural, or the result of some seriously selective breeding? I freely admit I like good looking cats/dogs/horses.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> The ZOMG teh evol chemicals, everything must be natural people . Because some of the worst poisons we know of aren't entirely natural or anything
> 
> Anyone who talks about toxins





Meezey said:


> That can be an issue they do need bathed regularly


bit like cresties then, bathed and moisturised and keep an eye out for spots , ingrowing hairs and blackheads?


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Meezey said:


> Peterbald was derived by the mating of Donsky ( Don) Sphynx with Siamese or Orientals. The most "common" Sphynx is the Candian.


 Oh, Ok, thanks. I don't really dip into the sphynx world, just noticed a lot of Perterbalds for sale recently, which looked like Sphynx to me.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> The ZOMG teh evol chemicals, everything must be natural people . Because some of the worst poisons we know of aren't entirely natural or anything
> 
> Anyone who talks about toxins


Tell me about it. These 'chemicals', be it vaccines or pesticides or therapeutic drugs, have saved countless lives both animal and human.

I understand completely that they can have side effects, affecting either that individual or the environment at large. I understand that people may be wary and that we all have a duty to use these products carefully and responsibly.

But to call them all dangerous and evil? It isn't true, it's not a reflection of the benefits we have reaped, and much of it comes from reading the likes of the Daily Mail's frankly terrifying 'Good Health' section on Tuesdays.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

mrs phas said:


> bit like cresties then, bathed and moisturised and keep an eye out for spots , ingrowing hairs and blackheads?


Exactly


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> Tell me about it. These 'chemicals', be it vaccines or pesticides or therapeutic drugs, have saved countless lives both animal and human.
> 
> I understand completely that they can have side effects, affecting either that individual or the environment at large. I understand that people may be wary and that we all have a duty to use these products carefully and responsibly.
> 
> But to call them all dangerous and evil? It isn't true, it's not a reflection of the benefits we have reaped, and much of it comes from reading the likes of the Daily Mail's frankly terrifying 'Good Health' section on Tuesdays.


Vaccines don't save lives and the immune response doesn't work like the scientists say it does *nods sagely*. Antibodies, what are those

I've just been told this on fb. I had to walk away


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> Sorry, naked cats just make me cringe. Is it natural, or the result of some seriously selective breeding? I freely admit I like good looking cats/dogs/horses.


"In 1966 a domestic cat gave birth to a hairless kitten in Toronto Canada. It was discovered to be a natural genetic mutation and the Sphynx cat, as we know it today, came into existence. This cat and a few other naturally hairless cats have been found worldwide; produced by Mother Nature, they are the foundation for this unusual breed. Cat breeders in North America and Europe have bred the Sphynx to normal coated cats and back to hairless cats for more than thirty years. The purpose of selective breeding such as this was to create a genetically sound cat with a large gene pool and hybrid vigor. When properly bred, the Sphynx is a very robust breed with few serious health or genetic problems.








Sphynx are not always totally hairless and there are different degrees of "hairlessness." There can be a fine down on the body which makes the cat feel like a warm peach. Some short hair is usually present on the nose, ears and sometimes on toes and tail. Seasonal and hormonal changes in the cat may also effect hair development. The texture of Sphynx skin has been compared to a suede hot water bottle or warm chamois, and some cats almost have a buttery feel to the skin. The skin is loose on the body which leads to that extra wrinkling effect you see on the cat."

Copied from CFA as to lazy to type  tbh its much more about personality in breeds for me over looks and these guys have bags of personality


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Antibodies are those things you can keep testing for at great expense while calling 'conventional' medicine a rip-off.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Sorry, I'm being facetious. I'm not against titre testing, but do wonder what it is about this approach that isn't a rip-off while administering vaccines is.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> Antibodies are those things you can keep testing for at great expense while calling 'conventional' medicine a rip-off.


But that's different cause natural or something. Look just read Dr Dodds, she conveniently also sells those expensive tests, and it will all immediately become clear


----------



## Guest (Sep 6, 2015)

cinnamontoast said:


> Sorry, naked cats just make me cringe. Is it natural, or the result of some seriously selective breeding? I freely admit I like good looking cats/dogs/horses.


I'm a bore this way too. Naked cats, naked dogs... eek. I'm sure I'd love one if I owned one, but can't see breeding for it on purpose. I like dogs to look like dogs and cats to look like cats and minimal extremes in any areas (yes, I know it's hypocritical of me since I own a giant breed, but she still *looks* like a dog LOL).


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> But that's different cause natural or something. Look just read Dr Dodds, she conveniently also sells those expensive tests, and it will all immediately become clear :Finger


I guess we're all getting the wool pulled over our eyes in one way or another.

Vets could make a lot more money from titre testing than vaccinating. So if it's all about the money, why aren't they testing more and vaccinating less?


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> I guess we're all getting the wool pulled over our eyes in one way or another.
> 
> Vets could make a lot more money from titre testing than vaccinating. So if it's all about the money, why aren't they testing more and vaccinating less?


Because you all just want to make our pets sick and make money off us duh


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> Because you all just want to make our pets sick and make money off us duh


It's so sad that people actually believe that. After ten years in the industry you'd think I would have seen a smidgen of evidence to support that by now. Nope, zilch.

I mean, £45 for a course of puppy vaccines. To treat a parvo case? Close to £1500. Seriously, would it not be more lucrative to discourage vaccination and reap the financial rewards of all the sick parvo pups instead?

I don't know, it makes me very sad that people think this way. 

Where are these vets who make pets sick to cash in? I have not met any of them yet!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> It's so sad that people actually believe that. After ten years in the industry you'd think I would have seen a smidgen of evidence to support that by now. Nope, zilch.
> 
> I mean, £45 for a course of puppy vaccines. To treat a parvo case? Close to £1500. Seriously, would it not be more lucrative to discourage vaccination and reap the financial rewards of all the sick parvo pups instead?
> 
> ...


You're just not reading the right fb scare stories, try a homeopathic page. They'll tell you all about it while pushing their "medicine"


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

When I was searching for my first kitten, I read on some breeder's website about them "homeopathically vaccinating" their kittens. I immediately exited their page and moved on.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

smoking guns said:


> When I was searching for my first kitten, I read on some breeder's website about them "homeopathically vaccinating" their kittens. I immediately exited their page and moved on.


I've never understood how nosodes are supposed to work anyway. Although seeing as how vaccines apparently don't cause the body to make antibodies against a disease, maybe they work using that person's theory...


----------



## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> my personal favourite, people trying to tell me where I 'should' adopt a dog from & that my foreign rescue dogs 'killed UK shelter dogs'- I'll be prepared to review my feelings on this subject when someone presents me with hard facts on this issue rather than opinions & anecdotes





rottiepointerhouse said:


> This in bold. I've left a couple of forums in the past - one in particular where I really supported their cause because several members told me I had the blood of English rescue dogs on my hands as I'd taken two dogs from Southern Ireland. The fact that I also had a rescue dog from England who was a rottie with quite severe behavioural problems was neither here nor there apparently.


I suppose I too have blood on my hands because I have always bought puppies from a breeder. Can't people see that no matter where a person acquires a dog or any animal from that is a life saved.

What makes my blood boil - how long have you folks got. In a nutshell when owners talk a load of rubbish and you can't put them right even if you wanted to, so you have to bite your tongue, smile and walk on.

There isn't much on the forum that makes my blood boil everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it isn't the same as others. have been lucky so far I haven't owned a problem dog, although over the years of walking Duke I have come across many and heard owners say, "he's always been the same". Lets just say I find this hard to understand and if the owner knows the dog has issues why allow it to walk off lead around other dogs.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Nicky10 said:


> I've never understood how nosodes are supposed to work anyway. Although seeing as how vaccines apparently don't cause the body to make antibodies against a disease, maybe they work using that person's theory...


Me neither. Although finding this website I think it's all a lot clearer... not.
http://www.stoptheshots.com/



> - Vaccinations can CAUSE diseases
> - Vaccines do NOT improve the immune system
> - Shots can trigger CANCER


Think I'm surprised the next line wasn't that vaccines bring back Hitler.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

smoking guns said:


> Me neither. Although finding this website I think it's all a lot clearer... not.
> http://www.stoptheshots.com/
> 
> Think I'm surprised the next line wasn't that vaccines bring back Hitler.


By the looks of it, they sort of use the same theory as actual vaccines. They use diseased material, they just sterilise and dilute until there's none of it left as usual 

I'm sure they could work that in somehow, or eugenics


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Not sure if I've added the link properly but I love this Penn and Teller take on vaccines. It's based on human vaccines but the theory is still the same.

PS.. It contains some bad language so prob best not to watch it if you're easily offended.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Forget Jenner; vaccines were probably invented by Hitler. Or possibly David Cameron.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Shoshannah said:


> Forget Jenner; vaccines were probably invented by Hitler. Or possibly David Cameron.


I bet Hitler also invented autism so he could put it in the vaccines.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Meezey said:


> "In 1966 a domestic cat gave birth to a hairless kitten in Toronto Canada. It was discovered to be a natural genetic mutation and the Sphynx cat, as we know it today, came into existence. This cat and a few other naturally hairless cats have been found worldwide; produced by Mother Nature, they are the foundation for this unusual breed. Cat breeders in North America and Europe have bred the Sphynx to normal coated cats and back to hairless cats for more than thirty years. The purpose of selective breeding such as this was to create a genetically sound cat with a large gene pool and hybrid vigor. When properly bred, the Sphynx is a very robust breed with few serious health or genetic problems.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think part of my point was should we be deliberately breeding for hairlessness? It's originally from a mutation and surely cats need hair to keep warm in colder weather etc? And it occurred naturally, does that mean we should keep breeding to perpetuate mutations? What's the difference between breeding for a mutated animal and breeding for colours/flat faces/merles? Lethal white occurs naturally, doesn't mean I'd deliberately breed for it.



Shoshannah said:


> I guess we're all getting the wool pulled over our eyes in one way or another.
> 
> Vets could make a lot more money from titre testing than vaccinating. So if it's all about the money, why aren't they testing more and vaccinating less?


Because kennels require vaccs' records? And there are myths aplenty still surrounding some issues. Look at neutering. Many vets still advocate this as routine and quote plenty of reasons as to why it should be done on both sexes, yet anyone could drag up studies arguing against. Up until a couple of years ago, I was always advised to feed bland food after a general anaesthetic: now I'm being told to feed the normal food. Hopefully the ideas surrounding vaccs will update soon too, particularly as some vaccs don't last the full year. My current vet insists on annual vaccs, but my soon to be vet says once every three years. I can't imagine the various brands have that much of a time difference!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

smoking guns said:


> I bet Hitler also invented autism so he could put it in the vaccines.


No that was definitely David Cameron


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

cinnamontoast said:


> I think part of my point was should we be deliberately breeding for hairlessness? It's originally from a mutation and surely cats need hair to keep warm in colder weather etc? And it occurred naturally, does that mean we should keep breeding to perpetuate mutations? What's the difference between breeding for a mutated animal and breeding for colours/flat faces/merles? Lethal white occurs naturally, doesn't mean I'd deliberately breed for it.


You could say the same about chinese cresteds or xolos, both of whom are natural mutations and xolos at least are a very old breed. If the hairlessness doesn't cause any health problems, then why not breed for it.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

smoking guns said:


> I bet Hitler also invented autism so he could put it in the vaccines.


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

I hate when people talk about cats in dog chat....drives me crazy

On another subject I held a hairless syrian hamster.
I swear there were two, one called Testy and the other Tickle

They did in fact look and feel just like Test-ticles


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I hate it when people talk about hamsters in dog chat.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> You could say the same about chinese cresteds or xolos, both of whom are natural mutations and xolos at least are a very old breed. If the hairlessness doesn't cause any health problems, then why not breed for it.


Because is it not a bit crazy to breed for something that then requires the cat, dog whatever, to wear protective coats in cold weather because they can't fluff up their fur to keep warm? Like I said, you can breed for colour/bracheycephalic faces, but should you? Humans manipulating yet again whatever they can.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> Humans manipulating yet again whatever they can.


I always find this strange coming from people with dogs bred/manipulated by humans? Or horses bred/manipulated by humans?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

cinnamontoast said:


> Because is it not a bit crazy to breed for something that then requires the cat, dog whatever, to wear protective coats in cold weather because they can't fluff up their fur to keep warm? Like I said, you can breed for colour/bracheycephalic faces, but should you? Humans manipulating yet again whatever they can.


Humans have manipulated every plant and animal that has crossed our path since the ice age. I don't see us stopping now. Springers are hardly natural either


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2015)

Meezey said:


> I hate it when people talk about hamsters in dog chat.


I seriously LOL'd and got the dogs both bugging me now.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2015)

cinnamontoast said:


> Because is it not a bit crazy to breed for something that then requires the cat, dog whatever, to wear protective coats in cold weather because they can't fluff up their fur to keep warm? Like I said, you can breed for colour/bracheycephalic faces, but should you? Humans manipulating yet again whatever they can.


Both of mine have hair and wear coats in the winter.
I guess I just don't like the hairless breeds because they remind me too much of bad mange cases we see in shelters around here. As the dog heals, the skin heals up and looks normal, but it takes forever for the fur to grow back.


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

ouesi said:


> I seriously LOL'd and got the dogs both bugging me now.


Im glad someone replied,

I thought I killed the thread with my sarcasm....either that or because I brought up testicles.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

BSL 
DDA :Arghh
and my absolute fave "my dog bit another dog, it'll defo be a CHILD next" 

Oh and more recently

"vaccines are the route cause of ANY illness your dog might have" from allergies to arthritis


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

Lexiedhb said:


> and my absolute fave "my dog bit another dog, it'll defo be a CHILD next"


LOL how did I forget that one!


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> You're just not reading the right fb scare stories, try a homeopathic page. They'll tell you all about it while pushing their "medicine"


Homeopathic treatment was the ONLY thing that gave our previous dog a happy few final years.


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## Daffers (Jul 22, 2014)

MoreThan Pet Insurance doubling my premium for no good reason ....... now that really makes my blood boil !!!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I'm a proud anti-vaccer. I saw the results of the vaccine Missy & Ty last had in 2010 and that was enough to cement my belief in not vaccinating routinely


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> I'm a proud anti-vaccer. I saw the results of the vaccine Missy & Ty last had in 2010 and that was enough to cement my belief in not vaccinating routinely


Nowt against not vaccinating- for you, and your dogs. Its the folk who tell me the reason my dog has allergies/ a cut paw/ puts on weight quickly yadda yadda is because I am "poisoning" him with vaccines that get my goat, before even knowing how often, and with what - he also HAS to be vaccinated.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Don't vaccinate your own dogs all you want, just don't tell us we're evil murderers for doing it. I can't even be bothered with arguments for "magic" water

Oh and any neck problems ever are because I used a halter. Someone very arrogantly, I bet the reason you have him on a harness because his neck is sore is because of the halti. Badly infected rash because something got caught between his collar and neck actually .


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Nicky10 said:


> Don't vaccinate your own dogs all you want, just don't tell us we're evil murderers for doing it. I can't even be bothered with arguments for "magic" water


Magic water lol


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

That's the theory isn't it? Dilute poison is water enough and it magically alters the structure or something. Water is an amazing molecule, its not that amazing


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

I've changed my mind now. The answer to the original question is "all of them".


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Nicky10 said:


> That's the theory isn't it? Dilute poison is water enough and it magically alters the structure or something. Water is an amazing molecule, its not that amazing


I have absolutely no idea how people decide diluting something, the very meaning being "making something weaker with water", would end up with super-charged sorcery. There is no logical way this would work. But then, I know someone who believed she got rid of cancer with positive thoughts and homemade vitamin C, created using a repurposed jewellery cleaning machine.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

smoking guns said:


> I have absolutely no idea how people decide diluting something, the very meaning being "making something weaker with water", would end up with super-charged sorcery. There is no logical way this would work. But then, I know someone who believed she got rid of cancer with positive thoughts and homemade vitamin C, created using a repurposed jewellery cleaning machine.


It's an old idea, it just went out with humours and bad smells causing disease.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Nicky10 said:


> It's an old idea, it just went out with humours and bad smells causing disease.


But... But science.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Going back a few pages, Jemima Harrison wanted to make Pedigree Cats Exposed but couldn't get the funding - cats considered less of a draw perhaps.

My own bugbears - 

Dog food warriors, especially those who don't appear to live in the real world. Suggesting Orijen when someone's looking for a good budget dog food for example. 'Oh but you feed less of it so it works out cheaper!'
'Just a mongrel' and and similar elitism in the dog world (I know that'll earn me a few eye rolls)
Adults who don't teach their children to respect animals


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

picaresque said:


> Going back a few pages, Jemima Harrison wanted to make Pedigree Cats Exposed but couldn't get the funding - cats considered less of a draw perhaps.
> 
> My own bugbears -
> 
> ...


I love my 'just a mongrel' dogs


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> I love my 'just a mongrel' dogs


I agree with this.

We all want to feed the best we can afford and we should be aware of what's harmful to our dogs but I've seen it suggested on another forum that, if you can't afford the real 'high end' foods, at nearly £100 a sack, then you have no business keeping a dog.

Apparently, you also have to be able to fly off to Pets at Home, on a whim, and spend a fortune on luxury dog beds, fancy feeding bowls and eye-wateringly expensive toys.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Sweety said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> We all want to feed the best we can afford and we should be aware of what's harmful to our dogs but I've seen it suggested on another forum that, if you can't afford the real 'high end' foods, at nearly £100 a sack, then you have no business keeping a dog.
> 
> Apparently, you also have to be able to fly off to Pets at Home, on a whim, and *spend a fortune on luxury dog beds, fancy feeding bowls and eye-wateringly expensive toys.*


I just don't bother any more, the dogs have my bed, a square of vetbed at the side of my bed & a folded duvet at the end of my bed. I found it impossible to keep 'proper' dog beds clean & the duvet & vetbed fit nicely in my machine 

All their bowls (stainless steel) have either been inherited from older dogs or family members or bought for pence from boot sales

I won't buy super cheap toys because I worry about safety, but I won't buy the really expensive ones, I tend to go for mid range. The best investment ever was a ball chucker on offer in Pets at Home for a quid, the balls have come & gone but the chucker's still sound


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Sweety said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> We all want to feed the best we can afford and we should be aware of what's harmful to our dogs but I've seen it suggested on another forum that, if you can't afford the real 'high end' foods, at nearly £100 a sack, then you have no business keeping a dog.
> 
> Apparently, you also have to be able to fly off to Pets at Home, on a whim, and spend a fortune on luxury dog beds, fancy feeding bowls and eye-wateringly expensive toys.


I have poodles doncha know. They are naturally only going to have the best. They have beds from the pound shop, from the charity shop and passed on from a dog years ago. Feeding bowls are all very old, some of them must be 20 years old at least, actually probably older. Toys are mainly from charity shops or presents friends have bought them. And of course I need them to smell cared for so they have eau de horse dung and eau de calf poo applied regularly, usually by mouth.


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I have poodles doncha know. They are naturally only going to have the best. They have beds from the pound shop, from the charity shop and passed on from a dog years ago. Feeding bowls are all very old, some of them must be 20 years old at least, actually probably older. Toys are mainly from charity shops or presents friends have bought them. And of course I need them to smell cared for so they have eau de horse dung and eau de calf poo applied regularly, usually by mouth.


This is digusting negect....my dogs get only the best!

Well ok half their toys are variously plaited fleeces from the 99p store.....but their bowls, no expense spared....
Ok they were £ 2.49 from Dunelm, they stack allowing me to fill and stack them for a meal my hubbie can feed whilst I have a sleep in....about once a month..... hubby it seems may have a phobia of scales and weighing them out food


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Rosie eats from a saucer I bought for ten pence in a Charity Shop. I do suspect it may be Royal Doulton though, so that makes me posh.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I'll be honest this thread has gone from one subject to another, I will buy my pets what they need. I did buy an expensive dog bed for Duke £50 at the time almost 11 years old now. It still graces our room so it has worked out cheaper in the long run. Its a metal frame with a strong thick canvas type material. We buy him expensive strong/tough toys, which again have stood the test of time. However if I feel a toy is tough enough from a cheap shop then I will buy it, I have been wrong so many times. That to me is false economy. 

Food, I try feeding good quality foods for all my pets however there are some foods that upsets their stomachs which I have to avoid. It isn't always as simple as X brand is best because it might not suit your pet.


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Not sure if I put this in my original post, can't be bothered to check 15 pages worth.
But what gets my blood pressure up is people calling German shepherds Alstatians
It changed in 1977...close on 40 years ago... 40 YEARS!!
I start to wonder if it will EVER die, it is such an ugly name IMO and normally only ever used by those that hate them


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

kare said:


> Not sure if I put this in my original post, can't be bothered to check 15 pages worth.
> But what gets my blood pressure up is people calling German shepherds Alstatians
> It changed in 1977...close on 40 years ago... 40 YEARS!!
> I start to wonder if it will EVER die, it is such an ugly name IMO and normally only ever used by those that hate them


I prefer alsatian and certainly don't hate them


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