# do dogs need off lead walks



## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

due to a few problems i now walk my dogs muzzled and on lead but being crossed with 3 working dogs i am wondering whether on lead walks are as beneficial as off lead walks


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## businessdegree (Jul 10, 2012)

its usually best to keep a sort of balance, because you can't always let them loose or let them feel like their being held back but i think since you have been on the on lead walks try this time around when you walk your dog go off lead all the way
good luck


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

A lot of ex racing greyhounds are never let of their leads due to their prey drive unless they are in a secure place.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I don't believe they need off lead walks but I do believe that if they enjoy running around they should be allowed to run. There are some ways to do this - running or cycling.


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

i personally think all dogs need offlead time.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I think its important for all dogs to have time off lead, breed allowing. I'd never keep mine on for life- I dont think its fair.

But you obviously muzzle yours for a reason so can you not hire a secure field for them.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Many breeds have problems being offlead and cope just fine.

It's about substituting the right amount of exercise in other ways either running or longer walks.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I cannot stand leads and use them when needed to be used, paths, roads etc. As soon as we get somewhere it is safe for them to be off, they are off. If we encounter other dogs, they are put onlead until the dog has passed or is Ok to be offlead with them. 

I think dogs need the offlead stimulation. You can walk for hours and hours and miles and miles, but if your dogs are anything like mine you'll be half way to Scotland before they're tired. Besides, they can run more, sniff more, see more etc offlead. 

If you have had issues of any kind, perhaps you could find and rent a field that is fenced that gives you the chance to let your dogs have a good quality time offlead in a safe environment.


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

I do personally believe all dogs should have some sort of off lead exercise. If you can not let yours off then try to find a secure area. I go to a paddock area, there are other dogs but you can book a induvidual session. Or if not then lots of play in the garden. 

But there is always a way to provide enough, natural exercise.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I knew a man who walked his airedale terrier on lead on every single walk never letting him off lead because he was so afraid of him going near the road, not because he was aggressive or anything, and you could see the effect of it when he once slipped his lead and he couldn't run properly. Why this guy even got a dog in the first place if he can't ever make the effort to let the dog have a run off lead really bothers me. If he was afraid of the road, he could have taken the dog to an area well away from the road.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

My lot all get off lead walks/runs - but I'm lucky I live in an area with plenty of safe walking areas and 3 dogs with an OK recall.
However I don't think all dogs need off lead time  - maybe an on lead only dog (depending on the dog) will need more frequent/longer walks and more mental simulation at home and on walks to keep them fit in both mind and body?


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

I don't know about needing them. Mine enjoyed them very much but now don't get them very often if ever due to them being rubbish at recall. They get lots of exercise but I think off lead would be easier as they seem to run twice as far off lead. 
Good side is they have good lead skills now which to be honest we were getting a bit lazy with before.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

i miss my off lead walks, my 7 month old pup used to run like hell off lead but due to him barking and trying to nip the odd stranger i now cant allow him to do so, i'm going to invest in a harness and tracking line to give him a bit more freedom and myself some control but it wont be the same
sometimes our loved pets make life so hard


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

blitzens mum said:


> i miss my off lead walks, my 7 month old pup used to run like hell off lead but due to him barking and trying to nip the odd stranger i now cant allow him to do so, i'm going to invest in a harness and tracking line to give him a bit more freedom and myself some control but it wont be the same
> sometimes our loved pets make life so hard


Some training would help with those problems.


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## Ducky (Nov 23, 2008)

no i dont think they NEED them. of course they are of great benefit and the dogs will love it but sometimes there are reasons why a dog cannot.

i have two dogs that are on lead all the time. for two seperate reasons. im almost sick of people telling me i should just let them off, it will be fine. no, it wont. iv already had a dog run off and be killed whilst i had it offlead, which makes it a thousand times worse for me. 

my beagle is onlead because his nose is to the ground and i cannot rely on his recall. he however does not lack in exercise. if we are in the park/fields/country etc, he is on a long line so that he has plenty freedom but that i still have hold of him. he has never known any different and is quite happy with this. he has a garden to play in which lets him have free roaming time. we also have an enclosed dog park nearby which i have used, but quite often its full of out of control dogs  

my boston is on lead too. this wasnt going to be the plan when i first got her (shes a rescue). but she has the most incredible prey drive and will chase anything that moves, so again not a risk i can take for the chance she hurts herself or something else. shes also not been very good with dogs recently, so this is something we are working on. also, she has breathing problems (due to the breed) and overheats quite quickly, so ive got to be careful how much exercise she gets anyway. 

sorry if that sounded ranty.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Chester is so much a better dog..if he has an off-lead walk..


He can be agressive to other dogs..if they come into his space..I just try to make sure it does not happen.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I do believe that all dogs (bar those whose breed, health or behaviour prevent it) really do benefit from offlead exercise. It is more difficult to provide the same amount of stimulation - mental and physical - without free running in my personal opinion. 

If your pup is only 7 months old I am sure that some training could resolve the issues.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> i miss my off lead walks, my 7 month old pup used to run like hell off lead but due to him barking and trying to nip the odd stranger i now cant allow him to do so, i'm going to invest in a harness and tracking line to give him a bit more freedom and myself some control but it wont be the same
> sometimes our loved pets make life so hard


Surely if she is muzzled she cannot nip anybody. If you drive it might be an idea to try to find somewhere fairly quiet or as suggested see if you can hire space in a secure field.

I used to have a dog who could not be off lead because he would just take off for the rest of the day and it really wasn't nearly so much fun to walk him. When I got Diva last year (she is four) she had never been off lead in her life. Luckily we have a fenced in dog field not too far away so I took her there, unclipped her lead and she just ran to the other end of the field like she couldn't believe her luck. It would be a shame to never let them off.


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

blitzens mum said:


> i miss my off lead walks, my 7 month old pup used to run like hell off lead but due to him barking and trying to nip the odd stranger i now cant allow him to do so, i'm going to invest in a harness and tracking line to give him a bit more freedom and myself some control but it wont be the same
> sometimes our loved pets make life so hard


Im sorry but i dont agree with muzzling a 7 month old dog. These issues can be sorted with time and training. Whats wrong with a training line without a muzzle? Its 7 months old... Contact a trainer or behaviourist to help with this.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

I'm sorry but, if you feel you need to muzzle a 7 month old pup ...you have problems....a behaviourist is needed asap


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

lol he does have training and several rosettes under the good citizen scheme, but he still has his moments when he is out and unfortunately its not worth taking the risk


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I do think that most dogs do benefit from offlead exercise. One of my dogs has a high prey drive & I have to be vigilant of walks, I do not let her offlead in unknown areas but do make sure that we have walks where she can have alot of offlead time as she loves running around. IMO her behaviour has improved alot for having this as even on a long line was restrictive for her.

My other dog is recovering form a cruciate op so can't go charging off in case he damages his leg. Whilst he is recovering he will be on lead for all walks. Tbh Toby is such a happy boy thsat he's really not worried & it doesn't appear to bother him at all.

Even on lead though you can still play games, retrieves, do training exercises, etc to make the walks more interesting but for some dogs (IMO) offlead time is important.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> lol he does have training and several rosettes under the good citizen scheme, but he still has his moments when he is out and unfortunately its not worth taking the risk


Do you do much training out and about though? Reckon you could crack it with a harness and long line, recall when the pup sees a stranger, treat / play tug / whatever pup works for until that action is conditioned.

Does you other do the same as I noticed you said your dogs were muzzled? Maybe separate walks whilst you train?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

blitzens mum said:


> lol he does have training and several rosettes under the good citizen scheme, but he still has his moments when he is out and unfortunately its not worth taking the risk


so does Chester..but me muzzling him would be a last resort..you need to find out why he is reacting the way he does..then try and sort it

What if he is behaving the way he is because of fear?


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## tailtickle (Mar 19, 2012)

The important aspect is your dogs are taking a walk with you for regular exercise.

You are obviously considering your personal situation with them responsibly, and therefore know that they will be returning safely home with you too. - Sadly, there are some Owners who take a Russian Roulette approach to being off lead hmy:

There is something _special_ too of you and them walking and enjoying the walk as a Group together. :thumbsup:

So don't fret, enjoy the time. 

tailtickle


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> so does Chester..but me muzzling him would be a last resort..you need to find out why he is reacting the way he does..then try and sort it
> 
> What if he is behaving the way he is because of fear?


this is the thing, how do i know if its fear ?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

tailtickle said:


> The important aspect is your dogs are taking a walk with you for regular exercise.
> 
> You are obviously considering your personal situation with them responsibly, and therefore know that they will be returning safely home with you too. - Sadly, there are some Owners who take a Russian Roulette approach to being off lead hmy:
> 
> ...


But surely it's worth trying to resolve the issue? Particularly with a 7 month old pup?


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

dogless i will definately try the seperate walks and long line, i love my dog to pieces and am not ready to give up yet
i have been greatly slated by people for putting a muzzle on him but i am 100% sure he would bite the odd person, not sure why its the odd person tho, the thought of something happening and a pts scares me stupid
i need to do whats best for my dog


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

blitzens mum said:


> this is the thing, how do i know if its fear ?


A behaviourist will be able to help you..Chester starts licking his lips..shaking as if wet...staring..freezing..then the lunging and if they get near the air snapping at the other dogs face will start ...

I just think if you go down the muzzling route it could make him worse ..if its fear based.
a spinone in our training class had the same issues..except his was with people ..


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

My dogs have both on lead and off lead walks, but i think if a dog has aggresive issues then it should stay on lead, sometimes where i walk there is a man who walks his GSDs both with muzzles on, but he lets one off lead and it will charge at other dogs hitting their bodies with the his head/muzzle and also paws the dogs untill he has them on the ground.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> dogless i will definately try the seperate walks and long line, i love my dog to pieces and am not ready to give up yet
> i have been greatly slated by people for putting a muzzle on him but i am 100% sure he would bite the odd person, not sure why its the odd person tho, the thought of something happening and a pts scares me stupid
> *i need to do whats best for my dog*


Absolutely - I'm not slating you for taking precautions and being responsible at all, but it would be a real shame not to work on the issues. I used a longline and harness for this: http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/230559-stalking.html It made me feel far more confident.

Also, this thread is good if you want support and just chatter about walks and stuff: http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/229731-what-you-working.html


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

blitzens mum said:


> dogless i will definately try the seperate walks and long line, i love my dog to pieces and am not ready to give up yet
> i have been greatly slated by people for putting a muzzle on him but i am 100% sure he would bite the odd person, not sure why its the odd person tho, the thought of something happening and a pts scares me stupid
> i need to do whats best for my dog


But if you have him on a lead you can avoid people/dogs? So why use a muzzle on a 7 month old pup? Please do some serious training and get the muzzle of the dog. Whilst hes on a lead and you have control he can not bite anyone. A muzzle should be a last resort, and for him to have a muzzle on at his age is ridiculous. 
Im sorry im just quite shocked.


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## tailtickle (Mar 19, 2012)

I am purely responding to the question of walking on lead. Rather hear this, than someone taking unnecessary risks or not taking walks and enjoying them.

Hopefully, Blitzen will equally seek help in areas that are of concern too.

tailtickle 

PS. Do not intend the "I am purely responding" sentence to sound snotty. Mean't only to explain.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

hayleyth said:


> But if you have him on a lead you can avoid people/dogs? So why use a muzzle on a 7 month old pup? Please do some serious training and get the muzzle of the dog. Whilst hes on a lead and you have control he can not bite anyone. A muzzle should be a last resort, and for him to have a muzzle on at his age is ridiculous.
> Im sorry im just quite shocked.


i'm sorry your shocked but you are not in my situation, at the moment i am taking my pup into town, into peoples houses and doing various training programmes with him. surely it is paramount that i do this safely, my pup has already proven he will bite, the safety of other people while i sort him out is my main priority, plus he has no objection to his muzzle when he sees it he gets excited cos he knows its time to play


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I think he's way too young for you to consider keeping him leashed for the rest of his life. I'd be getting referred to a good behaviourist and working to get his issues sorted out while he's young so he doesn't need to be kept leashed and muzzled. I've been there with a dog who needed to be leashed and muzzled while out in public and it really did take a lot of the enjoyment out of owning him. When we lived where he could be let off leash in a secure area he really did seem to benefit from the off leash time. Rupert was fear aggressive and the muzzle didn't make him any worse as I didn't just muzzle him when his trigger (other dogs) was around, it was just as much a part of going for walks as his leash was.

My current dog has been on leash only up to now since German law is that dogs are leashed between 1st April and 15th July, once I'm back in Germany with him he'll be going off leash as I do think it's unfair to keep a dog leashed for life if it can be avoided.


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

blitzens mum said:


> i'm sorry your shocked but you are not in my situation, at the moment i am taking my pup into town, into peoples houses and doing various training programmes with him. surely it is paramount that i do this safely, my pup has already proven he will bite, the safety of other people while i sort him out is my main priority, plus he has no objection to his muzzle when he sees it he gets excited cos he knows its time to play


I completely understand what you mean, i just hope the training works very soon and he is not needing a muzzle. I just think muzzles can be avoided when on lead and controlled. But good luck.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

blitzens mum said:


> i'm sorry your shocked but you are not in my situation, at the moment i am taking my pup into town, into peoples houses and doing various training programmes with him. surely it is paramount that i do this safely, my pup has already proven he will bite, the safety of other people while i sort him out is my main priority, plus he has no objection to his muzzle when he sees it he gets excited cos he knows its time to play


Do these situations stress him out? if so..I would not take him there


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I think it's HUGELY important.

I, personally, do not think it is healthy or fair for a dog to be confined strictly to a lead, never to have any free running exercise.

I have two dogs, that like yours OP, need to be kept on a lead and muzzled when out on walks, but I am fortunate to have land where they can have a good romp around. I don't think dogs need to be offlead on walks as such, but I do think it is essential, that if for whatever reason they can't be let off, to find a suitable secure location where they can at least have regular free running. 

I do not think a dog confined to a lead is a fit one - no matter how much the owner tries to exercise them whilst on leads, a strictly onlead dog will never be as fit as one who has free exercise - nothing can recreate the terrific work out a dog gets tearing full pelt through fields.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

hayleyth said:


> I completely understand what you mean, i just hope the training works very soon and he is not needing a muzzle. I just think muzzles can be avoided when on lead and controlled. But good luck.


i am hoping so too, i joined this forum to try and get impatial advice, its hard when your by yourself and have problems, my pup is quite well trained, he recalls well, he sits and stays, hes got 3 certificates at my local dog training centre, but he has issues that my trainer cant resolve, 8 weeks ago my pup was the most adventurous loving pup going and it breaks my heart to have to muzzle him, but it will break my heart more if i had to have him pts.
i admitt i am at a loss to know how to deal with it


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

hayleyth said:


> *Whilst hes on a lead and you have control he can not bite anyone.*


I'm sorry but I disagree. What if someone passing just lunges down and gets in the dogs face? What if a child runs up behind and grabs the dog? What if the OP gets surrounded by a group of people who seem incapable of understanding the word no? All of these have happened to me. Thankfully mine shut down rather than bite when it came to humans, other dogs were his problem.

Of course it could be said that if your dog bites it's not under control but unless you can control 100% of your environment 100% of the time a bite while on leash is entirely possible. And of course a muzzle will not prevent injury. Rupert broke another dogs ribs while leashed AND muzzled. We'd been charged and surrounded by 4 or 5 dogs on the street and I failed at blocking all of them at the same time.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> Do these situations stress him out? if so..I would not take him there


surely if he doesn't confront these situations he will never come to terms with the


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Just another thought; perhaps a lead and headcollar might be a good option rather than a muzzle whilst around lots of people? The headcollar gives you the ability to very closely control the dog's head (to turn him away from a person that gets too close for instance or prevent lunging) yet may not get the same reaction as a muzzled dog will - some people still think a headcollar is a muzzle though; I hear it a fair bit when Kilo has his on!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

blitzens mum said:


> surely if he doesn't confront these situations he will never come to terms with the


but it needs to be controlled...flooding him with his fear won't help....please, please seek a behaviourists help..

The behaviourist I went to with chester explained it to me like this: imagine you are really afraid of say a cliff edge..you will only go so near the edge. the adrenaline starts pumping , but, as the days/weeks go on you get more sure less anxious, more confident..then you will go more near the edge....its like this with dogs... sort of :lol:


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> I'm sorry but I disagree. What if someone passing just lunges down and gets in the dogs face? What if a child runs up behind and grabs the dog? What if the OP gets surrounded by a group of people who seem incapable of understanding the word no? All of these have happened to me. Thankfully mine shut down rather than bite when it came to humans, other dogs were his problem.
> 
> Of course it could be said that if your dog bites it's not under control but unless you can control 100% of your environment 100% of the time a bite while on leash is entirely possible. And of course a muzzle will not prevent injury. Rupert broke another dogs ribs while leashed AND muzzled. We'd been charged and surrounded by 4 or 5 dogs on the street and I failed at blocking all of them at the same time.


Untill the dog is trained then do not put the dog on the situation? I hve never known a dog in the rescue kennels ive worked in and at work which have needed to be muzzled for any reason. With the correct training it can be avoided. Fine muzzle for now while training, but there is no reason why they can not go to a secluded place to train and seek proffesional help. A 7 month old dog should noy need to be muzzled.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

blitzens mum said:


> surely if he doesn't confront these situations he will never come to terms with the


Simply forcing him to be in an environment where he clearly isn't comfortable and where he's likely to bite isn't going to get him to come to terms with them. If anything it's likely to make him MORE stressed and reactive. I would absolutely not be taking a dog who was showing aggression towards people into busy, crowded places whether muzzled or not. Instead I'd be looking at working out exactly what is triggering his behaviour and working on desensitizing him to that slowly and at a pace where he never feels the need to react badly to it.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

he's not being flooded honestly, we are doing it at a very slow pace


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## Qow (Jun 26, 2012)

blitzens mum said:


> surely if he doesn't confront these situations he will never come to terms with the


He needs to be kept under his fear threshold so that the social encounters he has are enjoyable for him. A social encounter which is stressfull for him will only increase his fear.

My last dog developed fear aggression at a similar age. The big mistake I made when trying to work through it was that I put her in busy social situations which were too much for her at the time.

I would start small and build up gradually to busy towns when he has gained more confidence.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

this is what i do, we do some quiet walking around the neighbourhood and a weekly walk to the pet shop in town where he gets fed treats. i have contacted 2 behaviourists and both had said they can cure my dog in 2 hours whilst charging me £80, i dont somehoe believe this
my dog does not lunge and snap at everyone when out, just random people


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

blitzens mum said:


> this is what i do, we do some quiet walking around the neighbourhood and a weekly walk to the pet shop in town where he gets fed treats. i have contacted 2 behaviourists and both had said they can cure my dog in 2 hours whilst charging me £80, i dont somehoe believe this
> my dog does not lunge and snap at everyone when out, just random people


Sounds good what your doing, do you get random people to give him treats aswell? Even if they just put it on floor near him ? That would be good.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

blitzens mum said:


> this is what i do, we do some quiet walking around the neighbourhood and a weekly walk to the pet shop in town where he gets fed treats. i have contacted 2 behaviourists and both had said they can cure my dog in 2 hours whilst charging me £80, i dont somehoe believe this
> my dog does not lunge and snap at everyone when out, just random people


bugger them..any behaviourist who says they can cure a dog in 2 hours is talking rubbish ....in the end its you the owner who has to put the work in and it takes longer than two hours ..

keep looking..does your vet recommend anyone?

as said earlier the what you working on thread is brilliant...offers you loads of support ..xx


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

This may help too: http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/97249-what-look-trainer-behaviourist.html


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

hayleyth said:


> Untill the dog is trained then do not put the dog on the situation? I hve never known a dog in the rescue kennels ive worked in and at work which have needed to be muzzled for any reason. With the correct training it can be avoided. Fine muzzle for now while training, but there is no reason why they can not go to a secluded place to train and seek proffesional help. A 7 month old dog should noy need to be muzzled.


So because you've never encountered a dog that needs to be muzzled they don't exist? And while avoiding putting the dog in a situation it can't handle is great in theory it's not always that simple to put into practise. How do you completely avoid people or other dogs if you're not allowed to drive and live in the city? I walked around midnight or later and stuck to main roads and still encountered people and dogs.

I wouldn't be writing a dog off as a lost cause at 7 months old but I don't think there's anything wrong with using a muzzle where appropriate. Nor do I believe that all problems can be fixed with training. Sometimes management is necessary.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

hayleyth said:


> Sounds good what your doing, do you get random people to give him treats aswell? Even if they just put it on floor near him ? That would be good.


i do indeed hayleyth well the brave ones do lol, i did have one fella that was in his 70's offer to lie on the wet grass so my pup could jump on him and play, apparently no dog could resist him doing this lol
the funny thing was blitzen quite liked him anyway


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Dogless said:


> This may help too: http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/97249-what-look-trainer-behaviourist.html


thank you


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

i find it quite interesting that someone said all dogs in germany had to be muzzled whilst out, i lived in germany years ago and they always were one step ahead of us, i think one day the same will thing will happen here in the uk, especially with the government clamping down on dogs


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> So because you've never encountered a dog that needs to be muzzled they don't exist? And while avoiding putting the dog in a situation it can't handle is great in theory it's not always that simple to put into practise. How do you completely avoid people or other dogs if you're not allowed to drive and live in the city? I walked around midnight or later and stuck to main roads and still encountered people and dogs.
> 
> I wouldn't be writing a dog off as a lost cause at 7 months old but I don't think there's anything wrong with using a muzzle where appropriate. Nor do I believe that all problems can be fixed with training. Sometimes management is necessary.


I agree muzzles are needed and helpful at times but it when owners just stick it on because they would rather not train etc. a muzzle should be a last resort, and personally i still think a muzzle does not need to be used as much in this case. But the most important thing is out of everyones opinion and advice is aslong as the dog is happy and is getting the best help!


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## Qow (Jun 26, 2012)

blitzens mum said:


> this is what i do, we do some quiet walking around the neighbourhood and a weekly walk to the pet shop in town where he gets fed treats. i have contacted 2 behaviourists and both had said they can cure my dog in 2 hours whilst charging me £80, i dont somehoe believe this
> my dog does not lunge and snap at everyone when out, just random people


That sounds like a good approach. If you're in a dog training club that'll help too. I found my pup was great around people who were v relaxed around dogs - but she would react very badly to people who were uptight and not dog savvy. So be careful who you allow him to interact with just now.

I think working one to one with an apdt dog trainer for a period of time might help - one with experience of fear aggression. I didn't find either behaviourist I used v helpful - they talked to me for 2 hours and then wrote up a report based on what I said. And charged a lot more than 80 quid. Practical hands on help over a period of weeks or months would be better.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

blitzens mum said:


> i find it quite interesting that someone said all dogs in germany had to be muzzled whilst out, i lived in germany years ago and they always were one step ahead of us, i think one day the same will thing will happen here in the uk, especially with the government clamping down on dogs


I hope not !!!

I would love to go to Ireland with my dogs...but ..I will not go.. as Mavis would have to be muzzled ..


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> i find it quite interesting that someone said all dogs in germany had to be muzzled whilst out, i lived in germany years ago and they always were one step ahead of us, i think one day the same will thing will happen here in the uk, especially with the government clamping down on dogs


They all have to be on a lead at a certain time of year, not muzzled from what I recall. I would hate to see all dogs muzzled here if they didn't need to be.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

paddyjulie said:


> I hope not !!!
> 
> I would love to go to Ireland with my dogs...but ..I will not go.. as Mavis would have to be muzzled ..


So would the BW....


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

blitzens mum said:


> i find it quite interesting that someone said all dogs in germany had to be muzzled whilst out, i lived in germany years ago and they always were one step ahead of us, i think one day the same will thing will happen here in the uk, especially with the government clamping down on dogs


My previous dog had to be muzzled as he was classed as a dangerous dog but there is no law saying all dogs have to be muzzled in Germany  At least not in Lower Saxony anyway.

ETA: they're supposed to be kept leashed between April 1st and July 15th coz of breeding season apparently but there's no need to have them muzzled and most people don't even keep them leashed.


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

Qow said:


> I would start small and build up gradually to busy towns when he has gained more confidence.


I agree. Don't look at things as forever at this age.

It is very difficult to find truly enclosed offlead spaces. Especially any with large enough space for a proper run around. 
Finding somewhere away from roads/livestock/other dogs/wildlife is also not easy especially when we all know dogs can clear miles in minutes. 
When you see requests for people to share their known fenced spaces or where there are any dog parks which are enclosed they are so often met with "My dog is perfectly behaved and doesn't need an enclosed space so dogs don't need dog parks" arguments. Many of these enclosed spaces/rentable are not suitable for dogs that can jump fences or dogs who aren't trustworthy around other dogs.

Training is fantastic. It only goes so far with some breeds. Many people don't bring up their breed specific issues in here because the response is often my breed doesn't do that you need to train harder which is not helpful.

If you have done training from day1 intensely (which OP sounds like they have) to the point where they are trustworthy and predictable, you have a few months where it's all good recalling well then one day they are off. I don't mean oh my dog is being naughty it is sniffing something and ignoring me. I you blink and it's a dot in the field miles away is my dog running. You think ok bad day, fresh scent, start again.Your try a new word, you try a new treat, you use a higher pitched voice, you bring toys on walks and behave in excited way on walks but it happens again and again. There is a point where that dog is not trustworthy probably not for life but at that age. 
OP I think try long lead so you have some control?

Another thing if it is the dog in your profile it isn't clear have you thought it could be a throw back from pastural behaviour ? If so could you redirect the instinct training them to perform the behaviour it want but without ankle nipping? I have heard a few collie owners mention the same behaviour as something they grow out of through mouthing training but it takes longer with some breeds? Mine responded well to search and rescue/tracking training so they are focusing on finding my OH not a rabbit. 
I would like many have said find a behaviourist but what helped me was find one that really knows your breed. Some good trainers including mine had their own unreactive dogs which they helped rehabilitate dogs who were fearful of other dogs. 
Best of luck!


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## Qow (Jun 26, 2012)

Re the criticism of using a muzzle on the puppy. The most important thing when trying to work through fear issues is that both dog and handler feel relaxed and confident in the social situations they encounter. If the dog is happy wearing a muzzle because it's been introduced in the right way, and the muzzle gives the handler confidence and makes her more relaxed, then how can it be a bad thing?

Using it now doesn't mean he'll always have to wear it.


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## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

I think it's best if they can get off-lead, but certainly not necessary. 

I have two Beagles and we worked so hard to keep them off-lead, but in the end we admitted defeat. They're so precious and every time we unclipped the lead we put them in danger. We were fortunate in that the oldest got to play off-lead every day until 18 months old and the little one 8 months old. 

They are now 4 and 5 and I'd challenge anyone to find fitter, more satisfied dogs!

It is much harder work for the human though! It's easy to just unclip the lead and wander about aimlessly while your dog exercises himself. When you have to do lots of sports with them to keep them fit and stimulated it means getting your own butt into gear!! LOL

The things we do with ours - not all at once of course! (which of course won't all suit your little guy):

- Canicross (running and hiking/hill walking with the dog pulling in harness)
- Lure Coursing / Beagle Racing
- Flyball
- Agility
- Swimming (hydrotherapy pool)
- Trieball / Urban Herding
- Heelwork to music
- Barrel Racing

We hunted high and low for a field to buy for them but it's impossible. Just by chance, whilst looking for land we came across a house for sale with a 1/3 acre garden so we bought it the very next day! 

There's also an off-lead enclosure that we use occasionally, but it's not really escape proof enough to spend much time there.

Don't beat yourself up about it. You'll find a way to give him a great life no matter what. We did a huge amount of training with our dogs - spent a fortune on trainers. Some things just aren't easy to fix and sometimes life gets better for you and the dog when you just go with what you've got and make the best of it! So, whatever happens, trust that things will work out well.

Re the muzzle issue - I think you're very sensible and responsible to muzzle the pup if it's prone to biting. I would do the same in your situation I'm quite sure! Our Beagle girl can be a bit grumpy with other dogs if they are bad mannered /approach in the wrong way. She never bites, but she throws quite an OTT strop. So, because it's a problem when dogs come bounding over "Just to say hi!" I'm painfully aware of how little control some people have of their dogs. Often the owner isn't even anywhere in sight.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I think definitely yes. Sadly, one of mine can't be due to his being DA . Fortunately, we have a handy tennis court and a 50 foot line that can be stepped on, so heh as the freedom to run with no restrictions.

If a dog is not DA and has a decent recall, I would never have it on lead. It's great for them to socialise and to have freedom to run. It breaks my heart that Zak can't be let off.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

A rescue dog I took on a couple of years ago had a scary habit of running up to people and barking at them, it looked really intimidating and she would nip if she got the chance, but with some work she now gives off a little bark from a distance and comes straight back to me for treats. It takes a while but you can do it.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

I have just admitted defeat again with Oscar (cocker spaniel). He is 3 and a half and i have trained and trained and he bumbles along doing really well for a while with his recall and then he gets the call of the wild and off he goes. He always comes back and strange as it sounds he isnt actually that far away, just in the scrub, but he can be gone for up to an hour and this time he did it was the closest i have ever been to having to leave him beause i had to collect my daughter from a party.

(((big sigh))) Back to square one because when he does this it undoes all the good progress we have made, the reward is just too great  

He seems ok on a longline and i will up his training and playtimes but he does love an offlead romp so much it is such a shame


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

If you are prepared to walk far enough, and in varied locations so that the dog is adequately exercised then I do not see a problem with a dog being on lead forever. Obviously having a well trained off lead dog is the "ideal" sadly we do not live in an ideal world.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I think an active dog needs to run, yes. And to scent, and explore and socialise. 
Why not try to find an enclosed area wgere your dogs can run?


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> I think an active dog needs to run, yes. And to scent, and explore and socialise.
> Why not try to find an enclosed area wgere your dogs can run?


There will be places i can let him off occasionally and i will still clip him off to socialise as in that situation he is pretty obedient but that is not the same as free running every day and it is not possible for me to do that as there is nowhere close enough to fit into my daily routine.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Molly will go like a rocket when she's off which alarms me so I don't walk her off lead alone. When we've been out in the countryside, I confess to moments of horror as she leaps across fields I've no chance of following so we've practiced loads in our house with a whistle and treats, progressed to the garden and to a park that's relatively safe. I've got to get her better on an emergency stop though.

At the moment unless very safe, then she's long line and harness. We do lots of recall whilst she's let out and I tend to get her used to the area really well. Then I let her off. I have also walked her with the trainers dogs in specific locations as they have amazing recall and she learns a lot from them. It does make me think we should be a two dog family....

I agree it depends on the breed. Molly needs a run and is a much better behaved dog because of it. When my husband was poorly recently all she had was a lead walk and play in the garden with tennis balls. She was okay but didn't sleep as much.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2012)

In an ideal world, I think we would all love to see our dogs running freely, off lead, interacting happily with other dogs, people, etc.

However, the reality is that some of us have to impose restrictions and if it keeps your dog safe, don't beat yourself up over it.

I have a young, very lively Lab, for instance, but he has been diagnosed with mild hip dysplasia. I've been advised to limit how much running and leaping around he does. Not ideal, but so be it. So half of the time he is now on a Flexi lead at parks etc. He seems perfectly happy and still has plenty of fun playing with his mates - just for shorter time periods.

I haven't read the whole thread but am guessing there is a good reason why you are keeping your dog on the lead


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> There will be places i can let him off occasionally and i will still clip him off to socialise as in that situation he is pretty obedient but that is not the same as free running every day and it is not possible for me to do that as there is nowhere close enough to fit into my daily routine.


That's the problem I find. I read so many posts on here stating that if dogs don't have good recall then they shouldn't be offlead, or if they chase aniamls they shouldn't be offlead - find somewhere with no distractions (where?) or somewhere enclosed (where?). The only enclosed fields at the moment have livestock in them so this isn't an option.

I have gotten to the stage with Roxy that I am not going to keep her on lead all the time, I use a long line for certain walks, leash her on certain parts of certain walks but do let her offlead despite her chasing 'problem'.

Personally I do not think I am able to teach her recall being on a longline/lead but obviously still use these for training to a degree. People may disagree with my choices but keeping her leashed all the time (as I did in the past) was adding to her behaviour problems (IMO).

Whilst she still gets alot of offlead time I would love to be able to choose new walks & have her off lead all the time as I see some people can with their dogs but this isn't possible. I do feel I have to be more cautious with her in certain places either due to livestock or roads, etc but I do seek out places that she can run free & there is nothing she loves better than these times .... well, apart from swimming!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> That's the problem I find. I read so many posts on here stating that if dogs don't have good recall then they shouldn't be offlead, or if they chase aniamls they shouldn't be offlead - find somewhere with no distractions (where?) or somewhere enclosed (where?). The only enclosed fields at the moment have livestock in them so this isn't an option.
> 
> I have gotten to the stage with Roxy that I am not going to keep her on lead all the time, I use a long line for certain walks, leash her on certain parts of certain walks but do let her offlead despite her chasing 'problem'.
> 
> ...


This is how i am with Oscar now. I pick and chose where i think it is acceptable to let him off based on his safety aand how much time i have to wait incase he does bugger off. I am sure there are people who could train him to recall but A) i won't use their methods or B) I am not a good enough trainer. I don't see how i can do anymore after 3 and a half years and if you see him when he is missing in action he is absolutely wired and full of endorphines i just cant counter.

I am not saying he came like that and can see some of the mistakes i made early on but i can't turn the clock back (lord knows i have tried).

There is one part of our walk that i felt pretty confident letting him off so that was where he had a good run but sadly after the weekend i can't trust him there at the moment. He is better along the river but then i worry about the railwayline


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> There will be places i can let him off occasionally and i will still clip him off to socialise as in that situation he is pretty obedient but that is not the same as free running every day and it is not possible for me to do that as there is nowhere close enough to fit into my daily routine.


We were in the same position with Rupert most of the time. And when we moved to Germany it was even worse, there's tons of places you can let a dog off for a good run but not one of them is fenced. I think the nearest fenced area is about a 40 minute drive away. It might as well be on the moon since I can't drive.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Ducky said:


> no i dont think they NEED them. of course they are of great benefit and the dogs will love it but sometimes there are reasons why a dog cannot.
> 
> i have two dogs that are on lead all the time. for two seperate reasons. im almost sick of people telling me i should just let them off, it will be fine. no, it wont. iv already had a dog run off and be killed whilst i had it offlead, which makes it a thousand times worse for me.
> 
> ...


That's fine, but what bothered me with the airedale terrier man is that he didn't even let him go on a long tracking lead or anything, he had him on a short lead all the time from being a pup. Honestly when he did slip his lead once the poor dog could not physcially run properly.
If I had to keep a dog on a lead like that, I'd make the effort and take them to enclosed areas like tennis courts so they can have a run.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> That's the problem I find. I read so many posts on here stating that if dogs don't have good recall then they shouldn't be offlead, or if they chase aniamls they shouldn't be offlead - find somewhere with no distractions (where?) or somewhere enclosed (where?). The only enclosed fields at the moment have livestock in them so this isn't an option.
> 
> I have gotten to the stage with Roxy that I am not going to keep her on lead all the time, I use a long line for certain walks, leash her on certain parts of certain walks but do let her offlead despite her chasing 'problem'.
> 
> ...


This is the same for Evie. I'm the first one to say dogs should have free running, but I have to accept it cant happen on every walk, if theres no roads and no livestock I go for it and touch wood shes good. I'd love to relax a bit like I can with the others-but its never gonna happen.
Even our Trainer thinks she's best 'managed' as she'll never be completly trustworthy.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

I do think all dogs need off lead time, but obviously there are certain places where it would be inappropriate to have a dog off lead - for example, I wouldn't walk Florence off lead in a busy park, and I can't walk Freya past our local tennis court off lead as she gets too frantic trying to get the balls  

I wouldn't be happy if either of mine couldn't go off lead at all. Although having said that, when we went to Cornwall last year, Florence had a lot more on lead walking than normal as we were walking round towns and museums with her, and she seemed to cope with it very well. And it did wonders for her llw skills  

My mum's Border Terrier is hard work on a walk - she spends the majority of the time disappearing into the undergrowth, but she does come back after 5 minutes or so. That's just the way she is, and she needs to be off lead otherwise her life would be empty. She lives to do what terriers do.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

I have one that can't go off lead and there is no secure area that I know of, however I have taken up jogging with the pair of them and the OH will run around the park with chance on a longer lead


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I think some people just have this perception of dogs being offlead, running around & enjoying themselves but also being obedient - the reality isn't always like this 

Roxy & I went for a walk around a small local resevoir several weeks ago. The area is raised slightly with a clear view towards the A10 (across a couple of fields). There is no cover at all & the land is flat, if she saw a deer (which there are plenty of) & chased it she may easily get to the main road so she stays on her longline when we are walking there.

We had been over there for over an hour; done some training exercises, practised recalls (on long line) from the geese, done some retieves, played ball & she had alos done alot of swimming so quite a varied eventful walk for her.

We met an older couple as we were leaving with their two labs. I had a couple fo comments about it being 'cruel' to keep a dog like Roxy on a long lead. I explained my reasons & told them that she had had a lovely time doing a variety of things - they weren't convinced.

Their dogs however, got 3 chases of ball in to the water & were then packed off home. As I walked with them back to their car they told me that swimming was 'loads' of exercise (even just 3 short swims apparently) & they started mucking about & running off if out any longer :confused1: 

Tbh I wasn't even offended by them but found it quite ironic that my 'poor leashed dog' was out having a lovely time but their 'free' dogs were packed off home early


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I think that ideally, yes, all dogs need time off lead. I appreciate that for some, this is not possible due to aggression, health, poor recall etc but a 'cant be arsed to train' attitude is absolutely no excuse for a dog never being allowed off lead (i'm thinking of my neighbour with a springer on that last account).

I also think that some breeds need time off lead more than other breeds.


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> I think some people just have this perception of dogs being offlead, running around & enjoying themselves but also being obedient - the reality isn't always like this
> 
> Roxy & I went for a walk around a small local resevoir several weeks ago. The area is raised slightly with a clear view towards the A10 (across a couple of fields). There is no cover at all & the land is flat, if she saw a deer (which there are plenty of) & chased it she may easily get to the main road so she stays on her longline when we are walking there.
> 
> ...


Exactly! Had the same discussion with a lady who does the same short walk twice a day with her collie x just a few ball throws same every day. 
Mine get a different walk every time, often long lead, "finding people", paddling, socialising, sometimes find unused footpaths working our way through. 
When we get a bit of money we weren't expecting we go camping, take them to the beach which is much easier off lead. I am certain that they get a lot more outdoor time. Some people also seem to avoid getting their dogs muddy or wet. 
The thing with tennis courts is they are fine for about 10 mins but to a beagle/basset/hound they are dull and they are soon trying to find something more exciting to smell.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

A lot depends on where you live too I suppose, I probably would not let Dougie off lead in an ordinary park (don't go to any so no idea if they can be off lead anyway). Count myself lucky that where I live is semi rural and there are loads of different walks, fields etc to choose from so plenty of places to go where he can safely be off lead


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

RAINYBOW said:


> This is how i am with Oscar now. I pick and chose where i think it is acceptable to let him off based on his safety aand how much time i have to wait incase he does bugger off. I am sure there are people who could train him to recall but A) i won't use their methods or B) I am not a good enough trainer. I don't see how i can do anymore after 3 and a half years and if you see him when he is missing in action he is absolutely wired and full of endorphines i just cant counter.
> 
> I am not saying he came like that and can see some of the mistakes i made early on but i can't turn the clock back (lord knows i have tried).
> 
> There is one part of our walk that i felt pretty confident letting him off so that was where he had a good run but sadly after the weekend i can't trust him there at the moment. He is better along the river but then i worry about the railwayline


Same for us... the mutt had good recall until springtime hit and now the wee monkey can be off for ages exploring. So now he's back on a pick and choose when off and work on recall route.

Think cleo also said about training recall on a long line. I kind of agree.. no matter how long the line/ how well versed the training programme and how high the reward value.. my dog knows the difference between being on a lead and not.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Howl said:


> Exactly! Had the same discussion with a lady who does the same short walk twice a day with her collie x just a few ball throws same every day.
> Mine get a different walk every time, often long lead, "finding people", paddling, socialising, sometimes find unused footpaths working our way through.
> When we get a bit of money we weren't expecting we go camping, take them to the beach which is much easier off lead. I am certain that they get a lot more outdoor time. Some people also seem to avoid getting their dogs muddy or wet.
> The thing with tennis courts is they are fine for about 10 mins but to a beagle/basset/hound they are dull and they are soon trying to find something more exciting to smell.


LOL, I know. Roxy got a couple of 'poor dog' remarks - it made me laugh more than anything 

I would love nothing more than a 3hr walk with a well behaved dog by my side .... luckily I have Toby for that (well, maybe not 3hrs whilst he recovers from his op!) but Roxy is not the dog for that. 3hrs offlead would just mean that she would find things to do which would probably involve chasing something. I try to engage her on walks, play games, she has off lead time but goes back on if she starts ignoring me or we get to certain 'trigger places' that I know she will disappear at

I still train & practise recalls from various distractions & she does get offlead time but not 3hrs as some people can with their dogs. I did used to feel guilty about this but realise it was silly to feel like that, I had to manage my dog according to how she is, my environment & no one elses. I do my best to meet her needs whilst being sensible. I actively find new things to do & new activities that will engage her.

We had a shortish walk tonight & then came home to practise agility in the garden (I got a cheap set from Zooplus & she loves it!). I am taking her to an introduction to working trials on Saturday, we attend obedience classes & I see a gun dog trainer occassionally so I do put a lot of effort in (actually ALL my spare time!) to ensure the dogs are fulfilled. I am lucky in that I can do this & I love doing it


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

kat&molly said:


> A rescue dog I took on a couple of years ago had a scary habit of running up to people and barking at them, it looked really intimidating and she would nip if she got the chance, but with some work she now gives off a little bark from a distance and comes straight back to me for treats. It takes a while but you can do it.


this does sound very much like blitzen, he can walk past 10 people and then out of the blue will run up to the 11th one barking and snapping at them, if you have any good tips i would very much be interested


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

blitzens mum said:


> this does sound very much like blitzen, he can walk past 10 people and then out of the blue will run up to the 11th one barking and snapping at them, if you have any good tips i would very much be interested


Yeah, Amber does that to people who aren't confident with her. If you just walk up to her and straightaway stroke her with confidence she's fine, but if somebody walks past obviously nervous she doesn't like it and will bark. She's also like that with joggers. Silly little minx, but she wasn't socialised at the right age to deal with people like that.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> Yeah, Amber does that to people who aren't confident with her. If you just walk up to her and straightaway stroke her with confidence she's fine, but if somebody walks past obviously nervous she doesn't like it and will bark. She's also like that with joggers. Silly little minx, but she wasn't socialised at the right age to deal with people like that.


this is what i dont get, blitzen has always been well socialised, he even stays at a friends house when i am at work so hes left alone very little. i dont understand why he has suddenly changed, did amber suddenly change or was she always like it ?


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

blitzens mum said:


> this does sound very much like blitzen, he can walk past 10 people and then out of the blue will run up to the 11th one barking and snapping at them, if you have any good tips i would very much be interested


I dont let her walk past anyone, I recall put her back on lead and feed her treats until they've gone passed us, its working great now.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

kat&molly said:


> I dont let her walk past anyone, I recall put her back on lead and feed her treats until they've gone passed us, its working great now.


i best start stocking up on the treats lol


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## HollyBolly (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm really pleased to see this discussion and really feel for you Blitzen's mum.

We have the same problem witho our cocker who was fine off lead until about 6 months ago and then suddenly started randomly chasing and barking at other dogs- usually if they are running with joggers or cyclists. She is completely unpredictable. She was well socialised as a pup and as we are retired, she is never really alone.

We have tried just about everything and, although we try to put her on a lead if we see an approaching dog, sometimes we are not quick enough.....

Our previously happy, off-lead field walks are becoming a real problem, especially because our other previously VERY docile dog, is now joining in!!

So, although she is an energetic, very active dog, we are beginning to think that she may need to stay on a lead as she it seems that the more she chases, the more addicted she is to chasing.

We feel really guilty about restricting her but, to be honest, we need to be able to have relaxing, quiet walks without the upset!

She will still be walked for about 2 hours a day. 

Any advice / coments would be really appreciated.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

HollyBolly said:


> I'm really pleased to see this discussion and really feel for you Blitzen's mum.
> 
> We have the same problem witho our cocker who was fine off lead until about 6 months ago and then suddenly started randomly chasing and barking at other dogs- usually if they are running with joggers or cyclists. She is completely unpredictable. She was well socialised as a pup and as we are retired, she is never really alone.
> 
> ...


This is my problem with Roxy as we do have so much wildlife where we are. She hasn't actually chased that much as I have always been vigilant but there are the odd occassions where something pops out completely unexpectantly - a fox last week!

I am now doing alot more games & training exercises with her to keep her occupied whilst being offlead. We have 5-10mins off lead doing recalls, retrieves, heelwork, chasing each other, etc then back on lead for sniff & walking again. I have learnt that by letting her offlead for long periods just results in her finding things to occupy herself with which generally don't involve me so I no longer do this. Offlead sessions are short but fun now - as he focus on me improves then they will be longer

I try to make each walk different & not do the same training exercises/games, take advantage of where I am & what mood she is in, etc so whilst our walks are hardly a relaxing stroll for me anymore they are encouraging her to focus on me alot more & (hopefully) realise that being with me is fun ..... well, that the idea!!

I did worry that Roxy doesn't get time to just 'be a dog' but tbh she is always looking for things to do when out, Toby (my other dog) is happy to potter about, sniff a bit, trot next to me but Roxy isn't like that & loves things to do.

I had an introduction session to working trials yesterday (not with a view to compete but just to get an understanding & advice for occupying Roxy) & the couple were amazing & gave me lots of really useful advice.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

For those who say dogs should have time off lead. These are a few reasons why they can't:

* poor social skills
* some dogs don't feel the need to run around
* some own breeds I.e bull breeds where there is so much prejudice around that it is not worth it, or it is a case of any altercation WILL always result in the bull breed being blamed
* don't trust other people to keep their dog under control
* Health reasons I.e bad hips\legs etc
* high prey drive

Oddly enough, for some dogs walking with their human pack is all they want. 

So for those who think it is "necessary" please reread the above and then come and meet some of these poor, unfortunate dogs


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

HollyBolly said:


> I'm really pleased to see this discussion and really feel for you Blitzen's mum.
> 
> We have the same problem witho our cocker who was fine off lead until about 6 months ago and then suddenly started randomly chasing and barking at other dogs- usually if they are running with joggers or cyclists. She is completely unpredictable. She was well socialised as a pup and as we are retired, she is never really alone.
> 
> ...


My goldie can be like that. We just put her on the lead if we're quick enough (walking in the open fields is ideal as I can see where they are before she spots them) and we pass the other dog with treats and praise, then she goes off the lead again and we're on our way. I also attend training classes with her as this makes her a bit more social with other dogs.


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## IndysMamma (Jan 15, 2009)

I think that all dogs safe to go offlead *should* get it as it is far more beneficial - there are ways around it but it is *exhausting* as those owners with certain hounds, huskies etc - breeds that are almost impossible to ensure a good recall in no matter how good a trainer you are

I have two 'problem' dogs at the moment that we are spending hours of each day working on but we will get there as we want happy, healthy dogs both mentally as well as physically

our 'issues' are:

Biggles (almost 8 months) - just entering teenage phase, getting brave and not always listening, up until 2 weeks ago his recall was *perfect* - now it takes work but we were expecting it and generally have little issue unless it's a dog he is friends with or birds to chase he still recalls away from people/strange dogs ok.

Solution - practice, practice, practice - being hyper vigilant and calling him back before he sees the birds/his friends and getting him back on lead and under control

Charlie - was never trained fully to recall, when he gets his nose down and after a bird/cat/scent he will *not* come back and when we got a little over confident and loose lined him (left his long line trailing) with other dogs we nearly lost him on the road when he chased a bird into traffic (someone left the park gate open)

Solution: once again we are back onto a long line only so he does get a lot of freedom and opportunity to scent/play/run/wrestle with Biggles and other dogs but it is *exhausting* as I am constantly running/ducking/diving through plants, over/under trees and logs, around people and objects to prevent the long line tangling or causing a risk/damage to Charlie/Biggles or other dogs/people

so yes it is possible to give a dog a fulfilling life with onlead exercise but it takes a lot more thinking/effort and when long-lining there's the great delight of occasional incidents of the line being dragged through poop other people haven't picked up *ick*


to help with our training we work on making us the most exciting thing in the park - we do training, games, treats for *any* recall - even if they just come up to us on their own, we bring 2-4 toys to the park and play with the dogs or encourage them to play with each other


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

no not all dogs need off lead walks, sled dogs such as huskies owned by responsible owners are never allowed off lead unless its somewhere secure and these are arguably one of the healthiest groups of dogs youll find..


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