# Caeser Milan on Alan titchmarsh show



## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

Is anyone else watching?? I'm so glad his methods are being brought to light and making people aware of the nonsense he produces. He's trying to justify hitting dogs and it's not getting him far!


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

Ha - we've just had that on in the office and our PR person is trying to say how it's actually a good thing that he answers these questions and gets it out of the way. I don't know - he came off pretty badly to me.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

what time was it on? Is it repeated anywhere? I can't watch tv at work.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

I know! It's about Time someone sat him down and has that conversation for the public to see, he's doing a new show next year about being a pack leader... From what I can see he makes troubled dogs a hell of a lot more aggressive!
Poor dogs


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Yeah, he didn't do very well did he! 

Disapointing as I support him, his so called 'kicks' and 'punches' are actually touches. 
At the end of the day if that dog had hold of my hand, I would have bloody kicked it too! 

Didn't agree with the use of the prong collars though, couldn't he just take them off and use his own collars?


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> what time was it on? Is it repeated anywhere? I can't watch tv at work.


Err it's just finished on ITV 1 I think? Could watch online.


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## lols82 (Oct 14, 2012)

sophieanne93 said:


> Is anyone else watching?? I'm so glad his methods are being brought to light and making people aware of the nonsense he produces. He's trying to justify hitting dogs and it's not getting him far!


Really? I got recommended earlier by someone in work to look up his website, this thread has just now saved me some time.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

Maybe... But from videos I have seen the touches make the dog react and on this show it was said that using the touch, he got bitten on the arm which doesn't make It a safe method of training


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

I have read two of his books and the theory behind what he does makes good sense but I think how he actually practises training isn't something I agree with


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I watched this, thought it was going to be one of those tame 'token' interviews but AT really seemed to go in for the kill.

Didn't like the clip of him dragging the nervy staff/pit tbh. There's been quite a bit of disturbing info about this new show on the grapevine, hopefully it's not true 

The bits about the cat and parrot being in control of the dog made me chuckle though


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Why was i not surprised with the interview! Talk about being bias,and imo. the Alan titchmarsh show was.
Ok we all know there some of us that are fans of CM and some hate the guy,which i can accept.
Not one mention was made about any good that Cesar has done for dogs like the pitbull.Neither was there any mention of the dogs he has helped,ie. with puppy farms or the dogs left after hurricane katrina.*


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I didn't want to watch this because I thought it would be too annoying to watch, but I heard on another forum how amazing AT was... so I will be watching it on catch up or iplayer when it is on!


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

I know he was getting a grilling lol. That made me giggle too! AT came up with a good point in my eyes, if you wouldn't do it to your children why do it to a dog


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

lozzibear said:


> I didn't want to watch this because I thought it would be too annoying to watch, but I heard on another forum how amazing AT was... so I will be watching it on catch up or iplayer when it is on!


It's on ITV1+1 in a min


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Why was i not surprised with the interview! Talk about being bias,and imo. the Alan titchmarsh show was.
> Ok we all know there some of us that are fans of CM and some hate the guy,which i can accept.
> Not one mention was made about any good that Cesar has done for dogs like the pitbull.Neither was there any mention of the dogs he has helped,ie. with puppy farms or the dogs left after hurricane katrina.*


Some of the things he does is good (I actually love a CM quote ), but that will never ever take away the fact that as a trainer he is horrible and so many people are blinding copying his techniques... he is known first and foremost for being a dog trainer, not for being an advocate for pit bulls, or dogs left after hurricane Katrina. So of course they will be asking about his dog training.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Why was i not surprised with the interview! Talk about being bias,and imo. the Alan titchmarsh show was.
> Ok we all know there some of us that are fans of CM and some hate the guy,which i can accept.
> Not one mention was made about any good that Cesar has done for dogs like the pitbull.Neither was there any mention of the dogs he has helped,ie. with puppy farms or the dogs left after hurricane katrina.*


Tbh I am a fan of his in that respect because he has done some fantastic work for dogs all I am saying is I disagree with the training methods he uses such as the prong collars which IMO doesnt help.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

luvmydogs said:


> It's on ITV1+1 in a min


Thanks for that! I have never run so fast to the TV! It is on and ready


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Yeah, he didn't do very well did he!
> 
> Disapointing as I support him, his so called 'kicks' and 'punches' are actually touches.
> At the end of the day if that dog had hold of my hand, I would have bloody kicked it too!
> ...


DO you genuinely think the kicks in this video are touches (a touch has never caused half my body to flip around)? or are you simply too proud to admit you are wrong? Cesar Millan's secret training technique: Kicking dogs in the stomach | TheDogs: A blog for pet lovers

Please watch this video start to finish. Would you want to be in a class where a teacher " touched" you like this if you didn't understand or were scared ?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

moonviolet said:


> DO you genuinely think the kicks in this video are touches (a touch has never caused half my body to flip around)? or are you simply too proud to admit you are wrong? Cesar Millan's secret training technique: Kicking dogs in the stomach | TheDogs: A blog for pet lovers
> 
> Please watch this video start to finish. Would you want to be in a class where a teacher " touched" you like this if you didn't understand or were scared ?


Will watch it now, and let you know my thoughts.

ETA: I have never seen that video before, and I am sad to say a lot of them looked more like kicks than touches unfortunatly...

Some of the times the dog moves are just the dogs reaction to the touch which makes them focus on that rather than the thing they are being aggressive at - which seems to work, however a lot do look more like kicks, which is just mean.

The work he does with the rescue dogs and the dogs in hurricane katrina is amazing though.

Not sure what to think now to be honest, but know I will not be such a 'proud' supporter as I was before I saw that video.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

lozzibear said:


> I didn't want to watch this because I thought it would be too annoying to watch, but I heard on another forum how amazing AT was... so I will be watching it on catch up or iplayer when it is on!


*It was obvious that Titchmash was only reading the same old cr*p that is said.
lol i know not to bother watching his show again.*


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Waiting for him to come on now! Hope it's as good as all the anti Ceaser people make out


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

sophieanne93 said:


> Tbh I am a fan of his in that respect because he has done some fantastic work for dogs all I am saying is I disagree with the training methods he uses such as the prong collars which IMO doesnt help.


*I have to be honest here.I have never seen a prong collar apart from on telly or pictures. I have to say,i hate the look of them.
I have stated on this forum how i've used,and still would use a choke chain,which i know some members find as cruel as these prong collars,which imo. they are not.
*


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Why was i not surprised with the interview! Talk about being bias,and imo. the Alan titchmarsh show was.
> Ok we all know there some of us that are fans of CM and some hate the guy,which i can accept.
> Not one mention was made about any good that Cesar has done for dogs like the pitbull.Neither was there any mention of the dogs he has helped,ie. with puppy farms or the dogs left after hurricane katrina.*


He's not on the show to promote that work - he's on the show to get publicity for his tour, his new programme and the final ep of The Dog Whisperer. If he wants to promote his work as a dog trainer then he's going to get asked about his work as a dog trainer.

Plus it's what he's known for and what viewers want to hear about so that is what is going to be the focus of the interview. Can't get free publicity without strings attached.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

lozzibear said:


> Thanks for that! I have never run so fast to the TV! It is on and ready


I did that - crashed the satellite had to unplug which meant restarting PC, TV and satellite, but am waiting with baited breath!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

L/C said:


> He's not on the show to promote that work - he's on the show to get publicity for his tour, his new programme and the final ep of The Dog Whisperer. If he wants to promote his work as a dog trainer then he's going to get asked about his work as a dog trainer.
> 
> Plus it's what he's known for and what viewers want to hear about so that is what is going to be the focus of the interview. Can't get free publicity without strings attached.


*If he is going to be interviewed it should be unbiased.*


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

My response to the video link moonviolet posted is in page 2, I just added it to my previous message.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *I have to be honest here.I have never seen a prong collar apart from on telly or pictures. I have to say,i hate the look of them.
> I have stated on this forum how i've used,and still would use a choke chain,which i know some members find as cruel as these prong collars,which imo. they are not.
> *


He said on the interview that if people are already using them then he will show them how to use them properly. Basically condoning their use where he should be promoting safer alternatives. I use a half check collar for my dog which has never shown to cause harm. He also said on the interview that people should never copy his methods, they should seek a professional which also raises questions of how safe his methods are. The dogs in his show look intimidated by him. IMO a dog should behave through respect for you, not fear


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *If he is going to be interviewed it should be unbiased.*


A good interviewer should ask their subject the difficult questions and the ones that need answers. As far as I'm concerned Alan Titchmarsh did that - unbiased doesn't mean not making your guest uncomfortable or only asking questions that they want to answer.

This wasn't the Andrew Marr Show or Newsnight interviewing David Cameron - it was the Alan Titchmarsh Show and a minor celebrity. There's no public interest (in the strictest sense of the term) and no obligation to present anything - it was an early evening entertainment show.

Cesar Milan was on it to drum up interest in his new tour, the final eps of the Dog Whisperer and his new show that will be premièring next year. This wasn't an altruistic visit - it's give and take. If he wants his face out there then he has to accept that his methods are going to be questioned. That's the subject that will bring in the most viewers.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

sophieanne93 said:


> He said on the interview that if people are already using them then he will show them how to use them properly. Basically condoning their use where he should be promoting safer alternatives. I use a half check collar for my dog which has never shown to cause harm. He also said on the interview that people should never copy his methods, they should seek a professional which also raises questions of how safe his methods are. The dogs in his show look intimidated by him. IMO a dog should behave through respect for you, not fear


*As i have already said i have and would again use a choke chain.But the fact is,if they are used wrongly they can do harm.
Given the chance,perhaps he could have explained this.*


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Go Alan!!!!!


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

He's struggling. Hooray. 

Surprised how quick Alan went for the jugular though.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

paddyjulie said:


> Go Alan!!!!!


Never been a titchmarsh fan before today


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## MeganRose (Apr 13, 2008)

paddyjulie said:


> Go Alan!!!!!


My thoughts exactly!! I thought I was going to be really shouting at the tele, but I feel like cheering!!


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## 5headh (Oct 17, 2011)

Watching it now, n0b.

'it is not a punch, it is a touch used 'snap the brain out of it''

Grr!


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

5headh said:


> Watching it now, n0b.
> 
> 'it is not a punch, it is a touch used 'snap the brain out of it''
> 
> Grr!


Which then causes him to get bitten! How would he like it if he was kicked to get his attention?


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

I just missed it! Damn.. Although it most properly would have just made me hate him even more than i do now, and he just makes me stressed everytime i hear/watch him!


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

moonviolet said:


> Never been a titchmarsh fan before today


Haha me neither, never watched his show but remembered on here CM been on it and got lucky. So pleased AT went for it though. cm did not come out of that well.


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## MeganRose (Apr 13, 2008)

CockersIndie said:


> He's struggling. Hooray.
> 
> Surprised how quick Alan went for the jugular though.


Pleasantly suprised though!

I really can't understand how he can compare a family to a 'pack'! Parents may be in charge, but as Alan said; they don't punch their children into place!

Also he said 'Where I grew up, we didn't have tools (like shock collars)'.. but he also said he was all 'dog whisperer' before he even came to America.. So why didn't he take away these 'tools' when faced with a dog wearing one, and work with what he already knew?!


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I have so much respect for Alan Titchmarsh now... Was brilliant!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Wish it had been a little longer though...loved watching Ceaser squirm


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

To be fair, I think Alan did a really good job! 

I have always liked him, now I know why! lol 


I wonder if he has dogs himself...


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

The Alan Titchmarsh Show | Facebook

Tell him how good he was ... i have !! :lol: :lol:


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

dandogman said:


> To be fair, I think Alan did a really good job!
> 
> I have always liked him, now I know why! lol
> 
> I wonder if he has dogs himself...


lol i wondered the same thing ... and discovered he does and cats and ducks and goldfish and and and and


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I missed it


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> The Alan Titchmarsh Show | Facebook
> 
> Tell him how good he was ... i have !! :lol: :lol:


Haha that's a good idea


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

SLB said:


> I missed it


Keep a check on i player


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

For those that missed it 

Alan Titchmarsh takes on Cesar Millan! - YouTube


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I think Alans show was loaded against CM, I was very disappointed with the way he was treated, he wasn't given enough time to answer any of questions or put he's point of view, Alan you should to a shamed of the way you treated him. 

I've never really been a supporter of CM but out of desperation I tried some of his methods with Dillon (and NO I didn't kick or punch him) and they have worked, now I have a dog that is a joy to walk.

"Thank You Cesar"
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:​


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm no fan of his shock collar methods, but I have copied his 'touch' method in a kinder gentler way and it does work with Amber who is a reactive barker. So he's not all bad. Going to go and hide now...


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

Happy Paws said:


> I think Alans show was loaded against CM, I was very disappointed with the way he was treated, he wasn't given enough time to answer any of questions or put he's point of view, Alan you should to a shamed of the way you treated him.
> 
> I've never really been a supporter of CM but out of desperation I tried some of his methods with Dillon (and NO I didn't kick or punch him) and they have worked, now I have a dog that is a joy to walk.
> 
> ...


He is a bullly who kicks and punches dogs... why should he get off lightly and have a nicey nicey interview? He needs to answer to methods... Alan let him off lightly compared to what Cesar does to the dogs!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

paddyjulie said:


> Go Alan!!!!!


*:lol::lol: Talk about a lynch mob.
It says a lot about those that are against CM.*


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

lozzibear said:


> He is a bullly who kicks and punches dogs... why should he get off lightly and have a nicey nicey interview?* He needs to answer to methods..*. Alan let him off lightly compared to what Cesar does to the dogs!


He wasn't given a chance to answer anything was he.

The programmes I've been watching I have't seen kick, touch yes but not kick.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Not the kicking/shock collar etc, but I am a fan. We retrained the original dogs using some of his methods. They were/are amazing dogs. A stamp of the foot has Brig spinning to heel, don't need to go near him. Not all CM's methods are bad. 

I watched him with a Klee Kai (was it bred by someone on here??) on a programme I recorded ages ago-bloody marvellous, frankly. And I wanted to steal the Akita mix that looked like an overgrown teddy bear!


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Just incase anyone missed it and if no one has posted already.

Alan Titchmarch you Hero ! - YouTube


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> He wasn't given a chance to answer anything was he.
> 
> The programmes I've been watching I have't seen kick, touch yes but not kick.


Watch the clip that moonviolet posted, there are definant kicks in there, as much as I hate to admit it, as I am kinda a fan.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

I watched one of him with an Alaskan malamute who was lead reactive to dogs and showed real fear. Every time the dog barked he kicked it with the back of hos foot in its stomach which made the dog yelp and sttack him. And he's a good trainer?? I don't doubt his work with the hurricane etc but as a trainer he's flawed.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

Happy Paws said:


> He wasn't given a chance to answer anything was he.
> 
> The programmes I've been watching I have't seen kick, touch yes but not kick.


There are countless videos on youtube of him kicking and punching dogs... not long ago there was that clip posted on here of him being bitten by Holly the Lab, he punched her!


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

All I can say is....


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Well done, Mr Tichmarsh.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

dandogman said:


> Watch the clip that moonviolet posted, there are definant kicks in there, as much as I hate to admit it, as I am kinda a fan.


and your point is ??????????????????

most of the kicks were firm touch which has startled the dog, and it's that, that makes dog jump, I've startled Dillon when he has been digging a hole in the garden I didn't even touch him and reacted in the same way, and the malamute if my memory serves me right was a wolf hybrid quite different to a dog don't you think.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

Wold hybrid or not, you don't kick it in the stomach.


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

Not sure how anyone can try and justify the kicks are not apparently kicks and are "touches" they are blantently kicks.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> and your point is ??????????????????
> 
> most of the kicks were firm touch which has startled the dog, and it's that, that makes dog jump, I've startled Dillon when he has been digging a hole in the garden I didn't even touch him and reacted in the same way, and the malamute if my memory serves me right was a wolf hybrid quite different to a dog don't you think.


I assume you have watched the video?

I will agree that some are just the dog being startled - which is what the touch is designed to be used for - no problem with that at all. 
There are some definant more powerful ones though that are more like kicks. As I have said before, I don't want to admit this, but can't hide from the truth.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

Happy Paws said:


> He wasn't given a chance to answer anything was he.
> 
> The programmes I've been watching I have't seen kick, touch yes but not kick.


Show down with Holly slow motion - YouTube

In this one, look at how some of the dogs react, and how much some of them move once he has kick them... a simple touch wouldn't cause that. 
Cesar Millan Kicking dogs - YouTube

Shadow turns blue - YouTube

These videos aren't of kicking but harsh handling... 
Jonbee 1 - YouTube

Jonbee 2 - YouTube

I watched the Jonbee episode years ago, and that is the episode that really made me disgusted, and see CM for what he really is...

Cesar Millan swinging dogs around by their scruffs - YouTube

I could go on but I will stop there


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Not one mention was made about any good that Cesar has done for dogs like the pitbull.Neither was there any mention of the dogs he has helped,ie. with puppy farms or the dogs left after hurricane katrina.*


There's a certain cigar smoking character in the news lately who also did alot of charity work and has now been found to be less than saintly despite it . Just because you do some good doesn't, and shouldn't, make you immune from being called out on any controvertial or plain wrong actions.



moonviolet said:


> Cesar Millans secret training technique: Kicking dogs in the stomach | TheDogs: A blog for pet lovers


That video always concerns me, you should really try and avoid striking/'touching' the abdomen with any kind of force - ever. There's too many delicate structures in there and particually in older dogs with underlying conditions these can become quite friable and prone to rupture.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

I am impressed, I liek the bit where Alan said we have never had so many complaints about a guest before.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

That stood out to me as well!


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

omg that jonbee video had m ein tears.That poor dog can`t breathe and is clearly terrified.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

He is on sunrise with eamon holmes tomorrow morning , just read it on @eamonholmes twitter feed.

Not a fan of his and his methods if i am honest.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2012)

Not going to get in to the debate. Its one of those arguments where no matter what proof you show, some folks are just going to see what they want to see. 
Glad to see at least one mind was opened though :thumbsup:

Just wanted to clarify a few things though. CM did not do a whole lot for the Katrina dogs. He kind of swooped in at the tail end and did some great PR/Media, but the real work had already been done.

The more knowledgeable, experienced pit bull folks here in the US are pretty adamantly opposed to CM. This particular video didnt earn him any friends. Interesting to me how dogfighting is illegal, but if youre CM and you throw two pitties together who you KNOW have issues with each other and they get in to a fight on TV and you televise it, its okay.... 
Dog Whisperer Pit Bull Fight.avi - YouTube


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

I've never really liked Alan Titchmarsh, but I think he did a really good job in this interview. I don't like CMs methods, and I hope if he does any more chat shows in the uk, he'll get the same response.

I'd like to see Paul O'grady interview CM, now what would be interesting!


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

How anyone could ever defend someone who abuses and intimidates dogs in the name of rehabilitation is quite beyond me but then some people are just more susceptible to brainwashing and hero worship than others I suppose.  In 25 active years of training and rehabilitating problem dogs, how many times did I get bitten? Once! That was because I was distracted suddenly and made a mistake and a very frightened dog got me on the hand. My own fault.

Even when, as a dog warden, I caught vicious, unpredictable, escaped guard dogs (more than a few I can tell you!) was I ever bitten? No. I even had one huge, badly scarred Rotty with a very bad outlook on life, sitting for a biscuit to make catching him easier. The owners however, were far more dangerous in some cases but none of them got to bite me either! :sneaky2:

It is interesting to look at that video again and note CMs very long sleeved jumper, hiding all of his scars I presume? :sosp: Also, his lip licking, eye averting, hunching over, almost shrinking into himself, classic calming signals in a way, appealing to Alan in a subtle way to back off and not make him feel threatened? Hmmm! :ihih:


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Have to say I haven't watched it and don't intend to as I can't abide AT at the best of times. I do know that some of his flooding techniques I don't like and wouldn't dream of allowing such treatment if one of my guys were fearful. On the whole though I like CM, I watch all his progs to decide for myself rather than simply listen to other people's views, I mean I have never seen a punch or kick and to me someone saying that's what he does is truly showing how judgemental and over reactive they are. 

Because I continue to watch all his shows I can see how he has changed over the years and with a difficult, powerful dog myself have found the advice on controlling my own nerves when out invaluable. Also just simple things like not allowing Flynn to sniff as and when he wants has improved our walks no end - this was something two trainers I took him to told me not to allow either. He's a strong dog and has to know I am walking him, not the other way round. Both of my trainers were PR trainers and not CM fans but seeing the relationship between Flynn and myself first hand could tell how I needed to be with him. Flynn is far calmer and focused on the walk if he's not allowed to do as HE wants, doesn't keep looking around for other dogs either. 

I have all CM's books, saw him at Wembley a couple of years ago and as I said have all his series on record for future viewing. His advice has helped me no end with a breed that can be far more difficult than your average breed. I judge by what I see, not what someone else see's and in that I decide which methods I may use. 

As for prong collars - they are used a hell of a lot in the US, some on a Mal forum I belong to swear by their use, it's not a CM thing because he mostly use slip leads.


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## TennoAkita (Jul 28, 2012)

Wow, so many CM haters on here lol.

I feel AT was rather aggressive, having CM on his show to promote a new seiries and then barely mention it!

Interviews like that do nothing for me. If you want to grill someone then at least give them time to answer back! Never watched AT before this really. He did a bit on tattoos which was rather crap. If you want to have an view on tattoos, for and against, then why not have a proper tattoo artist etc? Instead there was an x factor reject which added nothing and a comedian who was ok at best. I'll probably never watch it again. 

I thought CM handled it well. It is not the first time he's been questioned on his methods lol.

I understand the touch method. Do I use it? No. Have I tried? Yes. Did it work? No. I do use the shht noise that he makes. Like CM it was the noise my parents made when I was being naughty lol. So I was using it already. Made me stop straight away! Works with Kuma too. Shht and a quick snap/tug of the lead and he's in check.

And yes if a dog bites and holds my hand I'd be kicking the crap out of it too lol.

I've watched CM's shows. They are a bit samey TBH. I do like to watch them every now and again. Expecially the puppy farm ones where he helps shut them down. And the ones where he helps with strays etc

I've seen him use electric collars and also prong collars. Not much is shown regarding 'equipment' used. Probably to make him seem like a miracle worker lol.

I have used a prong collar. My trainer gave it to me when Kuma was a pup. We used it for only a short while. We were shown how to use it properly.

I'd use one over a choke chain any day. After all if I was doing something wrong, I'd rather be pinched then choked!!! It isn't always pinching the dog when it's on. We don't use it anymore. Havent for years! I have worked with Kuma a hell of a lot and we don't need it to control him. In the early days it was handy when coming across other dogs. I never wanted to use for ever. It helped while it was needed. The bottom line is, that when it was on, Kuma was perfect, but when we used a normal collar it was like he'd never been trained for walks! So I worked more and more with him. He's been great for a long time now. 

I'd downgrade it's use where it would be on but have a small leather strap o it that I'd used to correct him rather then the lead. In fact, it got to the point where it was mainly used when the mrs took him out on her own as he was very protective of her so was a bit more difficult. Slowely but surely I didn't need it anymore.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Have to say I haven't watched it and don't intend to as I can't abide AT at the best of times. I do know that some of his flooding techniques I don't like and wouldn't dream of allowing such treatment if one of my guys were fearful. On the whole though I like CM, I watch all his progs to decide for myself rather than simply listen to other people's views, I mean I have never seen a punch or kick and to me someone saying that's what he does is truly showing how judgemental and over reactive they are.
> 
> Because I continue to watch all his shows I can see how he has changed over the years and with a difficult, powerful dog myself have found the advice on controlling my own nerves when out invaluable. Also just simple things like not allowing Flynn to sniff as and when he wants has improved our walks no end - this was something two trainers I took him to told me not to allow either. He's a strong dog and has to know I am walking him, not the other way round. Both of my trainers were PR trainers and not CM fans but seeing the relationship between Flynn and myself first hand could tell how I needed to be with him. Flynn is far calmer and focused on the walk if he's not allowed to do as HE wants, doesn't keep looking around for other dogs either.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you.

I take into account when watching a tv program or DVD that one hour on dog training does not give an accurate account of what actually takes place to train a dog, programs and DVD are edited to get the best (or Worst, whichever makes "good" watching )conclusion so we the public will buy them or watch the program.

I like to make my own decisions on dog training by watching and reading about different dog trainers and using whichever method I like along with my own experience as to which method would be best for my dogs. 
Over the years I found that one particular method does not suit all dogs.

I found that when training my samoyed I had to use completely different methods to the way I trained my goldies, just as when training my German shepherds I had to use slightly different methods to goldies.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

beris said:


> I completely agree with you.
> 
> I take into account when watching a tv program or DVD that one hour on dog training does not give an accurate account of what actually takes place to train a dog, programs and DVD are edited to get the best conclusion so we the public will buy them or watch the program.
> 
> ...


Whilst I agree that different dogs need different methods, anything that involves hurting, forcing or frightening the dog in any way is not training - it is abuse.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Whilst I agree that different dogs need different methods, anything that involves hurting, forcing or frightening the dog in any way is not training - it is abuse.


I agree with you about hurting, forcing or frightening a dog is not training. There is no way I would ever hurt any animal. 
I stated that I take different ideas from different trainers what I believe will help me in training my dog.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

beris said:


> I agree with you about hurting, forcing or frightening a dog is not training. There is no way I would ever hurt any animal.
> I stated that I take different ideas from different trainers what I believe will help me in training my dog.


Sorry, I wondered when I posted that if it might come across as being aimed at you particularly. I quoted you because of your reference to different methods; the hurting, forcing and frightening bit was aimed at the creature the thread is about.

Sorry.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha! I don't usually have much time for AT but that was brilliant.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Sorry, I wondered when I posted that if it might come across as being aimed at you particularly. I quoted you because of your reference to different methods; the hurting, forcing and frightening bit was aimed at the creature the thread is about.
> 
> Sorry.


No Problem. I probably didn't express myself correctly.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

I think we can learn alot from CM


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Starlite said:


> I think we can learn alot from CM


Absolutley priceless. 

I doubt CM would get the joke, though.


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## Rottsmum (Aug 26, 2011)

sophieanne93 said:


> I know he was getting a grilling lol. That made me giggle too! AT came up with a good point in my eyes, if you wouldn't do it to your children why do it to a dog


Because dogs aren't children maybe?  I wouldn't feed my kids raw meat and bones but I do to the dogs. Dogs have big sharp teeth and claws - kids do not. The two aren't comparable


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## Diesel the Crazy Dal (Jun 11, 2012)

Daneandrottiemum said:


> Because dogs aren't children maybe?  I wouldn't feed my kids raw meat and bones but I do to the dogs. Dogs have big sharp teeth and claws - kids do not. The two aren't comparable


You havent met my kids


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Daneandrottiemum said:


> Because dogs aren't children maybe?  I wouldn't feed my kids raw meat and bones but I do to the dogs. Dogs have big sharp teeth and claws - kids do not. The two aren't comparable


Presumably wouldn't leave your kids to do their toilet in the garden or out on a walk either, but that is not the point is it? Point is, hopefully if you want well balanced children, you treat them with respect and you should do the same for your dogs, treat them with the respect they deserve for their species.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Of course dogs are not the same as kids....

BUT...

People (of all ages, kids included), dogs, cats, chickens, apes, dolphins and every other animal species capable of learning learns through the same basic principles - If a behaviour is somehow rewarding it will be repeated; if a behaviour is NOT rewarding it will be reduced.

When raising either pups or kids, training dogs or teaching people, positive punishment (especially direct physical punishment) is a CHOICE, it is not a necessity (obviously self-defense is a different matter).

It is morally wrong IMO to cause unnecessary pain, suffering, fear, distress to anyone - human or animal. 

CM's actions (shocking, yanking, choking, jabbing, hanging, punching, kicking, scruffing, shaking, rolling, pinning, etc etc etc) DO cause pain, fear and distress. This is evidenced by the plethora of signals seen on his show - lip licking, whale eyes, looking away, panting, yawing, etc. Even for those folks unfamiliar with the more subtle signs of stress in dogs - there have been numerous dogs on that show who bit, yelped, shook or wet themselves. Signs you can't miss.

And these actions are ALL unnecessary.

CM deliberately triggers a known unwanted behaviour, in order to violently punish it. He sets the dog up to fail, then hurts or scares it for doing so - for doing something that he caused!

That's not training - its abuse.

As for AT - give that man a medal!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

CarolineH said:


> How anyone could ever defend someone who abuses and intimidates dogs in the name of rehabilitation is quite beyond me but then some people are just more susceptible to brainwashing and hero worship than others I suppose.  In 25 active years of training and rehabilitating problem dogs, how many times did I get bitten? Once! That was because I was distracted suddenly and made a mistake and a very frightened dog got me on the hand. My own fault.
> 
> Even when, as a dog warden, I caught vicious, unpredictable, escaped guard dogs (more than a few I can tell you!) was I ever bitten? No. I even had one huge, badly scarred Rotty with a very bad outlook on life, sitting for a biscuit to make catching him easier. The owners however, were far more dangerous in some cases but none of them got to bite me either! :sneaky2:
> 
> It is interesting to look at that video again and note CMs very long sleeved jumper, hiding all of his scars I presume? :sosp: Also, his lip licking, eye averting, hunching over, almost shrinking into himself, classic calming signals in a way, appealing to Alan in a subtle way to back off and not make him feel threatened? Hmmm! :ihih:


I noticed the lip-licking too! Funny, wasn't it.

He was interviewed on Radio 4's Midweek programme yesterday too. The presenter had just started the interview by challenging CM about his methods, when my dog food delivery arrived. By time I'd dealt with it, the piece had finished.


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> I think Alans show was loaded against CM, I was very disappointed with the way he was treated, he wasn't given enough time to answer any of questions or put he's point of view, Alan you should to a shamed of the way you treated him.


He got plenty of time to answer, but he tried his best *not* to answer the questions by talking about irrelevant stuff and trying to make jokes (which worked in the beginning of the interview, but not at the end).


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Vicki said:


> He got plenty of time to answer, but he tried his best *not* to answer the questions by talking about irrelevant stuff and trying to make jokes (which worked in the beginning of the interview, but not at the end).


Ok now I will make you all jealous because I have both a parrot AND a cat so thats why my dogs behave! :dita: It was nothing to do with my socialising and habituating them, nothing to do with my training them using positive methods and absolutely NOTHING to do with me ensuring that the problems they had after coming to me as rescues (4 out other present 5 dogs are rescues) were gently discouraged, even the aggression that past dogs of mine had when I got them. Parrot, cat - try keeping them in a toolbox it gets messy! :ihih:

Oh and I use food too! How about that? :ihih:


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Very biased "interview" but I'm pleased it was aired for the reason that hopefully it will make people think twice about blindly replicating the methods seen on this new show of his.

That Jonbee video gets me every time! Two choke collars on one dog (the trigger of the lead around his neck is attached to a choke chain, not his normal collar. One choke can do enough damage in the wrong hands, that dog must've had a very sore neck after thrashing around like that. Not all negative though - I was pleased to see him mention positive association with the muzzle (not that this makes up for him handling the dog to the point of shutdown).

I think everything I've seen him do with Bulldogs disgusts me, like Butch: 
Butch 2 - YouTube
The dog can't breathe properly as it is, so CM rolls him onto his back (where he is obviously struggling to breathe), puts a slip lead high on his neck and holds it taught, jams a thumb into his neck and picks him up by the scruff. I wouldn't want to see him do that to ANY breed, but watching him do that to one with breathing issues makes me cringe.
Why not look at WHY he doesn't want to go to the kitchen?

This dog trainer uses similar methods to CM and I recall him being mentioned on a CM thread not long after I joined the forum - no-one had anything positive to say about his methods! Why? Because he isn't a TV sensation I think. Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 500 free dog training streaming videos, free eBooks, podcasts, by Ed Frawley and Michael Ellis
Both "trainers" intimidate and use physical force along with chokes, prongs and shock collars.

What bothers me about ALL dog training tv shows is how you can never get the full picture of the dog's history and how they are being handled by the owners. Too easy for people to copy without having a read around or speaking to a professional first.


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