# should you pay stud fee



## mattbowls (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi,
I'm currently trying to breed my bitch and have found a stud and tried to mate from day 11 / 12 / 14 / 15 and bitch stands tail flags and the dog mounts her not for long,when he can find the right hole to put it in  all the times have been failures and no locking / tying has occurred , now the stud owner is demanding half the fee even tho dogs never mated .. what are your thoughts ? is this standard practice 

mattbowls


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Absolutely not. If the bitch was willing but no mating took place, no stud fee should be paid.

Was he an unproven dog?


----------



## mattbowls (Dec 17, 2013)

the dog was apparently proven with 2 litters one of which was a mistake, the breeder said my bitch was to blame for sitting down a few times when the stud had mounted.


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

No. 

No stud fee until proof of pregnancy.

What breed if I may ask?


----------



## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

There are no rules as to what is and what is not correct and terms and conditions vary considerably. So, completely disagree with the other comments.

These things should have been discussed before you mated your girl.

Quite honestly it sounds like you don't have a clue what you are doing and neither does the 'stud dog owner' and are just out to make a bit of money which makes it more difficult to give advice.

It all comes down to what you agreed to beforehand (if you agreed anything).

And if you do decide to try breeding again, please do it properly - no bitch should have to go through the stress of mating four times like your poor girl did! ;(


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> No.
> 
> No stud fee until proof of pregnancy.
> 
> What breed if I may ask?


When we were considering mating, which we never, we were told the fee and that if no pregnancy we would get a mating at the next season???
That was I take assuming that at the first mating there was at the very least there was a tie.


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

DT said:


> When we were considering mating, which we never, we were told the fee and that if no pregnancy we would get a mating at the next season???
> That was I take assuming that at the first mating there was at the very least there was a tie.


This is what i've usually seen offered was another mating on the next season but from what I have always been told that's only when the dogs have been actually able to mate.

Mind you not that i'm a breeder per say but just going on what I have been told lol


----------



## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Bear in mind you are also paying for a Stud Service in the fee, which includes the time and effort on the stud owner's part - regardless if the bitch has mated or not.

As has been said before, this should have been discussed beforehand - but rarely is, due to the speed of the moment. [Saying that, it should be part of the research done beforehand - many months beforehand]

Some onus has to be on the bitch owner to try and make sure she is at the right time - which is difficult yes, but it's also not fair to roll up at the stud owner's premises and go through the motions with no successful mating, and expect that to be for free.

Everyone's time is precious - even with an unsuccessful mating I would be prepared to offer the stud owner something to recompense the work done. Offers of repeat matings free don't always work for many reasons (in cats as well as dogs) so I'd rather try to conclude that session amicably, leaving myself free to go elsewhere on the next occasion if I didn't want a repeat.


----------



## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

mattbowls said:


> Hi,
> I'm currently trying to breed my bitch and have found a stud and tried to mate from day 11 / 12 / 14 / 15 and bitch stands tail flags and the dog mounts her not for long,when he can find the right hole to put it in  all the times have been failures and no locking / tying has occurred , now the stud owner is demanding half the fee even tho dogs never mated .. what are your thoughts ? is this standard practice
> 
> mattbowls


If the dog finds the righthole as you put it but no tie takes place it is called a slip mating and it is possible for a bitch to become pregnant from a slip mating although it is better if a tie takes place.

I would give the stud owner an amount of money to compensate for their time after all you pay for the service and not the pups. If the bitch does prove to be pregnant you should tell the stud owner and pay the rest of the stud fee.

There are no rules about this this is just what I would expect if someone used one of my dogs.


----------



## mattbowls (Dec 17, 2013)

rocco33 said:


> There are no rules as to what is and what is not correct and terms and conditions vary considerably. So, completely disagree with the other comments.
> 
> These things should have been discussed before you mated your girl.
> 
> ...


i hold my hands up 100% about being new to the breeding game and it's not money making scheme as the pups were not to be sold, but surely someone whom advertises a stud dog which is kc registered should have some sort of clue and not rely on google ??and before hand nothing was agreed. i have already said im happy to give £50 of the £300 fee but they want half, which i think is abit of a cheek


----------



## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Have your girl and the stud been tested for breed specific diseases - to ensure they are not passed on to the pups?

If the answer is 'no' - why are you so keen to produce pups that could suffer from ill health?

If you didn't take the time to discuss stud fees, I somehow doubt you did the right thing and arranged health tests. If I'm wrong, please correct me and I will apologise.

I am PRAYING the two dogs are not Labs. There are so many Labs in rescue and this breed suffers from some conditions which can cause lameness and blindness. Hence the importance of both dam and stud being tested BEFORE mating!


----------



## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

mattbowls said:


> i hold my hands up 100% about being new to the breeding game and it's not money making scheme as the pups were not to be sold, *but surely someone whom advertises a stud dog which is kc registered should have some sort of clue and not rely on google ??*and before hand nothing was agreed. i have already said im happy to give £50 of the £300 fee but they want half, which i think is abit of a cheek


No! why should they? and the money making scheme was aimed more at the stud dog owner than you anyway 

Every comment you have made indicates the stud owner doesn't know what they're doing (ie 4 matings with two on consecutive days, saying it's the bitches fault for sitting down! not helping the dog find the spot!..... a back yard breeder/stud dog owner who is clueless but clearly likes the idea of making a quid out of her poor dog.

What breed are we talking about?


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

mattbowls said:


> i hold my hands up 100% about being new to the breeding game and it's not money making scheme as the pups were not to be sold, but surely someone whom advertises a stud dog which is kc registered should have some sort of clue and not rely on google ??and before hand nothing was agreed. i have already said im happy to give £50 of the £300 fee but they want half, which i think is abit of a cheek


I don't know what breed you're talking about, but there are regularly over 10,000 Labradors registered every time the breed record supplement comes out, which is three times per year. At the peak since I've been involved with the breed, there were over 55,000 registered per year. A teeny, tiny minority of those will be educated as towards health tests, line breeding etc. The rest will just be breeding because they can.


----------



## mattbowls (Dec 17, 2013)

rocco33 said:


> No! why should they? and the money making scheme was aimed more at the stud dog owner than you anyway
> 
> Every comment you have made indicates the stud owner doesn't know what they're doing (ie 4 matings with two on consecutive days, saying it's the bitches fault for sitting down! not helping the dog find the spot!..... a back yard breeder/stud dog owner who is clueless but clearly likes the idea of making a quid out of her poor dog.
> 
> What breed are we talking about?


dogue de bordeaux


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

A mating did take place, all be it a slip mating, it is still mating none the less.
Your bitch could still be pregnant, the stud dog still provided a service so yes you will need to pay.

Unless you arrange with the stud dog owner before the mating takes place that you only pay with a pregnancy confirmation.

Has the bitch and dog had all health tests relevant to the breed? How old is the bitch?


----------



## Guest (Dec 19, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> A mating did take place, all be it a slip mating, it is still mating none the less.
> Your bitch could still be pregnant, the stud dog still provided a service so yes you will need to pay.
> 
> Unless you arrange with the stud dog owner before the mating takes place that you only pay with a pregnancy confirmation.
> ...


This is what I would be asking.

I aggree with others as you paid for a service even though nothing appeared to happen.

Personally if I were a first time breeder I would be looking for an experienced breeder to help and op you may not find one willing to help due to lack of experience.

2 inexperienced breeders owned by seperate dogs is a disaster zone.

Is this a planned litter?? Are their potential good homes all ready found for these puppies. Its not enough just to stick two dogs together and hope for the best.


----------



## nox2693 (Jun 2, 2013)

mattbowls said:


> dogue de bordeaux


I should hope in that case that the parents are indeed health tested, as so many DDBs have health issues that CAN be screened for. One rescue dedicated to DDB's has over 50 in their care at the moment seeking homes, with another long list waiting to go into rescue. That is ONE rescue.....no doubt there will be tonnes of others elsewhere


----------



## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

What a depressing thread.........
all the dogs being dumped for Christmas... and still the message isn`t getting through. So very very sad.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Honestly, I really don't think you have the level of experience necessary to breed dogs *ethically*. Anyone can breed dogs, but it's what happens over time that really tells. 

You need to have a good knowledge of conformation, temperament and health. For my dogs, as they're working gundogs, ability also plays a part, although I really only dabble compared with those who field trial their dogs. The stud dog owner needs to have an indepth knowledge of the breed, and if they don't, they should have a mentor. It's not good enough to accept every bitch through the door and let them get on with it. 

You probably have a lovely girl, I've got four lovely girls, one of which I've had one litter from with the aim of keeping a bitch pup back for me to carry on from. In the New Year, I will start testing my two young bitches. Before I even make a decision, I will probably have spent over £1,000 on health tests between the pair of them. Rhuna, my flatcoat, has qualified for the gamekeeper's ring for Crufts in 2014, and I can't see her not being there for the next few years, I also spend a considerable amount showing them in conformation shows. I still may decide not to go ahead with them, because for me, there are simply too many dogs just being bred and I don't want to add to that number. If I do go ahead with any of my girls, the aim will always be to keep back a pup. 

I'm in touch with all the puppy owners from the one litter, I know how the pups are, and offer a life time service to puppy owners, and that, to me, is what it should be like. It's only a small minority of breeders who offer this, unfortunately, most of them think that breeding a litter of pups and offloading them is acceptable. They don't think where those pups may end up, 1, 2, 3, 10 years down the line. For me, I want to be involved the whole way, and even have plans in place for when I'm knocking on too much to be able to cope. 

So please, rethink your having a litter, because I honestly don't think you have the right knowledge/experience, and I don't think maybe you've thought about some of the aspects I've highlighted above. But, hopefully, having asked the question, you may see just how much more there is to *just* breeding a litter of pups.


----------



## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

I wouldn't pay a stud fee untlil pups born.igot caught out years ago. had 2 slip matings the dog was set back to France 4days later. result I got no pups and was charged £200 for the stud fee.


----------



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

nox2693 said:


> I should hope in that case that the parents are indeed health tested, as so many DDBs have health issues that CAN be screened for. One rescue dedicated to DDB's has over 50 in their care at the moment seeking homes, with another long list waiting to go into rescue. That is ONE rescue.....no doubt there will be tonnes of others elsewhere


Was just about to say DDB breeding round my way is like staffy breeding .. also there overbred small rubbish examples of the breed.

Stud fee is a service yes i agree with that,when i have girls in it takes me endless amount of time witnessing matings to show the owner,a bit different with cats i know as the owners drop them off and collect 3 days later.

Id say 50 seems reasonable enough.


----------



## Darth (May 18, 2011)

I've always paid up front, and it's been more than £300 I might add!

Free return if there are no pups.

If you've been asked to pay half for a slip mating it's pretty fair.

If she isn't in whelp do you get a return mating for the second half of the fee?


----------



## Guest (Dec 25, 2013)

Yes you pay for the service after all. 

I just can't understand that people don't ask for terms and canditions up front I would rather an assume what is right in my books. This kind of lack organisation just shows lack of care and thought for the dogs.

Saves a lot of bother.


----------



## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

mattbowls said:


> i hold my hands up 100% about being new to the breeding game and it's not money making scheme as the pups were not to be sold, but surely someone whom advertises a stud dog which is kc registered should have some sort of clue and not rely on google ??and before hand nothing was agreed. i have already said im happy to give £50 of the £300 fee but they want half, which i think is abit of a cheek


If the puppies are not being sold what is going to happen to them? The last litter I bred was 3 years ago and my bitch had a ceasarian the vet was quite amused when I told him my bitch was called Freyja. The reason? he had done a ceasarian on a DDB bitch the day before whose name was also Freyja and just like my Freyja she too had a litter of 10 pups. If your bitch was to have 10 pups what are you planning on doing with such a large litter do you have the room to keep so many large dogs. Just curious as you say the pups are not being sold.


----------



## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Freyja said:


> If the puppies are not being sold what is going to happen to them? The last litter I bred was 3 years ago and my bitch had a ceasarian the vet was quite amused when I told him my bitch was called Freyja. The reason? he had done a ceasarian on a DDB bitch the day before whose name was also Freyja and just like my Freyja she too had a litter of 10 pups. If your bitch was to have 10 pups what are you planning on doing with such a large litter do you have the room to keep so many large dogs. Just curious as you say the pups are not being sold.


That was going to be my question they can have 8 -13 pups apparently and they are not small dogs has the breeder got a mansion with acres of land .


----------

