# kitten colours



## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

I have a litter of kittens from a red mother and seal point father. There is 2 colourpoint, 1 white?, 1 blue tortie and 3 i am unsure of. What are the colour possibilities from this mating?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

what do they carry? Pics?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spid said:


> what do they carry? Pics?


im guessing the 'white' could be cream points as lilac points colour can be seen early even in the torties.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

simpiggy said:


> I have a litter of kittens from a red mother and seal point father. There is 2 colourpoint, 1 white?, 1 blue tortie and 3 i am unsure of. What are the colour possibilities from this mating?


You cannot get a white cat from that mating - white cats have a white parent.

Your 'white' kitten might be a cream-point - the colour on them is much fainter and will take longer to show.

Presume the mother is not a red-point, presume these cats are not carrying chocolate or cinnamon. If you are correct you have a blue or blue-point kitten then:

All her daughters will be tortie or tortie-point, either black-tortie or blue-tortie.

All her sons will be red, red-point, cream or cream-point.


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Yes the "white" i believe is a cream point (cant tell with that one yet, no points visible) The other 3 are tortie....but look choc (didnt think choc was possible?)


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> You cannot get a white cat from that mating - white cats have a white parent.
> 
> Your 'white' kitten might be a cream-point - the colour on them is much fainter and will take longer to show.
> 
> ...


Yes i suspect the white must be a cream point as no colour showing yet. Only 1 blue tortie girl the other tortie girls are presumable "black tortie" then? But look more brown which was why i was unsure :-/


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

simpiggy said:


> Yes i suspect the white must be a cream point as no colour showing yet. Only 1 blue tortie girl the other tortie girls are presumable "black tortie" then? But look more brown which was why i was unsure :-/


its possible if both parents carry choc.

You can test parents to see if its possible at Langford vets you send swabs off

If that is a cream point you have no point in testing for dilute as you have your answer there.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Give it time and I suspect the browny colour will be more obviously black, especially on pads and nose leather.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Agree with the above the older they get the more clear it will become always tricky when you have not done them colours before once you have seen it before next time round you'll be a pro.


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

ok great, thanks everybody  When do the cream points usually start to show and why is it his body is so "white" is that normal with a cream point? The pointed girls (blue tortie point i think?) are very cream bodied but the boy is glowing white (its our first litter of colour points  ) so excuse the ignorance


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

simpiggy said:


> ok great, thanks everybody  When do the cream points usually start to show and why is it his body is so "white" is that normal with a cream point? The pointed girls (blue tortie point i think?) are very cream bodied but the boy is glowing white (its our first litter of colour points  ) so excuse the ignorance


Yes cream point are vwey white

The blue torties white will look a bluish white.

If you look at the paw pads you should see a mottles affect ie blue tortie will be pink and blue patches.

Iv got some pics of lilac and blue torties I will dig them out 1 min.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

a blue tortie


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Yes the girls are blue white and there noses, pads are blue. The boy is white white can't see any colour at all, pink skin, pink pads. Oh yes please pics would be great, thankyou


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Boys can't be tortie, BSH.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

simpiggy said:


> Yes the girls are blue white and there noses, pads are blue. The boy is white white can't see any colour at all, pink skin, pink pads. Oh yes please pics would be great, thankyou


Oh sorry I mis understood you I thought you meant the cream pt blue and lilac tortie.

I now realise you mean the cream point and blue torties.

The blue tone of the white is often classed as a cold tone.

this is a lilac tortie bi point but ignore her nose leather cause shes cp and white so nose will be different to a cps.

Take notice of ear tips and how white she looks in her body.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

carly87 said:


> Boys can't be tortie, BSH.


yeah was thinking maybe sex was wrong but I realised I was reading her post wrong.

Not impossible tho carly for a male tortie :devil:


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Ah yes can see a definate difference in the body colour in your photos, i wondered why he was so white white i had just assumed the pointed all started off the same white/cream colour! Thankyou


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

simpiggy said:


> Ah yes can see a definate difference in the body colour in your photos, i wondered why he was so white white i had just assumed the pointed all started off the same white/cream colour! Thankyou


heres cream point at about 8 week old.


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Oh yes very white white  so i have a cream point, 2 blue/tortie points, a blue tortie and 3 black torties


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

simpiggy said:


> Oh yes very white white  so i have a cream point, 2 blue/tortie points, a blue tortie and 3 black torties


Are both parents cps? can you take pic ill take a look for you.


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

No mum isn't cp, i will try and get some good pics, i need to take them in day light the flash just reflects off them.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

here is a blue torties paw pads see how they are blue and pink mottled


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

simpiggy said:


> No mum isn't cp, i will try and get some good pics, i need to take them in day light the flash just reflects off them.


yes that will be good.Mum is obviously carrying cp


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I hope this isn't a litter from the red Ragdoll x BSH mentioned in a past thread...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

simpiggy said:


> Yes the girls are blue white and there noses, pads are blue. The boy is white white can't see any colour at all, pink skin, pink pads. Oh yes please pics would be great, thankyou


Red & cream cats have pink pads - look at mum. Also this mentions the colours though for solids not pointed cats:

Standard of Points for Oriental Cats


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_pictures pretty pretty please........._


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> I hope this isn't a litter from the red Ragdoll x BSH mentioned in a past thread...


Sorry?? Mum is a BSH


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Have taken some pictures just need to upload them and then work out how to get them on here


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

The pictures haven't come out very well but hopefully you can see the difference between the "white white" and the "blueish white"


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

simpiggy said:


> The pictures haven't come out very well but hopefully you can see the difference between the "white white" and the "blueish white"


I don't think the dark kitten on the right is a tortie it looks like one of 'catcoonz'
kittens and I believe theyare silver shaded tabbies of something.

Lets see what others think but iv never seen a tortie look like that.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> I don't think the dark kitten on the right is a tortie it looks like one of 'catcoonz'
> kittens and I believe theyare silver shaded tabbies of something.
> 
> Lets see what others think but iv never seen a tortie look like that.


What's a 'silver shaded tabby'? I think the kitten in the pic looks like it could be black tortie smoke. Is either one of the parents silver? If not, then the kitten isn't either.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Not silver shaded (not light enough and I can't see silver only white), not smoke (already has spectacles round the eyes).


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

spid said:


> not smoke (already has spectacles round the eyes).


Right, totally missed that. I shouldn't say or think anything before I've had some caffeine.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_aww fluffy balls of cutness, have no idea what colour that last one is, gorgeous all of them. do you have a picture of mum and dad._


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

NorthernDarkness said:


> What's a 'silver shaded tabby'? I think the kitten in the pic looks like it could be black tortie smoke. Is either one of the parents silver? If not, then the kitten isn't either.


Lol I thought I was probably wrong in my description,really not my area them colours it just reminded me of cc's coonies.

So what we thinking this kitty is? Wonder id mum is red silver classic tabby iv heard of that before im sure.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spid said:


> Not silver shaded (not light enough and I can't see silver only white), not smoke (already has spectacles round the eyes).


so what is your thinking then spid?


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Dad is seal point and mum (as far as i'm aware) is just a red tabby?


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

This is mum


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> so what is your thinking then spid?


Well can't be silver as silver is dominant so mum or dad HAVE to be silver to give silver kittens. Other than that the photo isn't good enough to see.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spid said:


> Well can't be silver as silver is dominant so mum or dad HAVE to be silver to give silver kittens. Other than that the photo isn't good enough to see.


Right cheers.

Op can you get a better pic?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

All the girls HAVE to be torties from this mating.


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

More pics of the dark kitten


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

simpiggy said:


> More pics of the dark kitten


This looks like it could be fever coat - there is a silvery hint but neither parent are silver so it can't be silver. Fever coat will go away and then just black will be left.

Pics of face please.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Was this a controlled mating or could she have been out and mated with a different male or males as well?

Regardless, because she is red all female kittens must be torties and all males gingers.

And it can take time for some of the red to become obvious in a tortie.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

Do you have pic(s) of the sire?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

hmm interesting this could be one of two things then couldn't it.

Either this is a dominant tortie with fever coat or a mix up with stud/s


Agree the tortie can take time to show or she may have very little tortie pattern is this 100% a female op.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> <snip>
> Either this is a dominant tortie with fever coat or a mix up with stud/s
> <snip>


Mum is red - ALL her girl kittens MUST be torties. Agree it could be a fever coat, but even a stud mix-up won't stop her girls being torties and her boys being gingers.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Mum is red - ALL her girl kittens MUST be torties. Agree it could be a fever coat, but even a stud mix-up won't stop her girls being torties and her boys being gingers.


yep with ya  im wondering if its defo a girl.

There was this choc tortie point kitten at a last show this kitten didn't have no tortie at all was really weird I guess strange things happen sometimes..

Got a question is there actually any test for tortie??


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> yep with ya  im wondering if its defo a girl.
> 
> There was this choc tortie point kitten at a last show this kitten didn't have no tortie at all was really weird I guess strange things happen sometimes..
> 
> Got a question is there actually any test for tortie??


If it was a boy it should be ginger and it obviously isn't. Suspect it has some very finely mingled ginger that will become more obvious with time. Her pads might give a clue - torties often have mottled pads.

No test for tortie that i've heard of - since ginger is always expressed I doubt a gene test for it would be developed.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I believe from the other photo she had ginger on her chin.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> If it was a boy it should be ginger and it obviously isn't. Suspect it has some very finely mingled ginger that will become more obvious with time. Her pads might give a clue - torties often have mottled pads.
> 
> No test for tortie that i've heard of - since ginger is always expressed I doubt a gene test for it would be developed.


to be fair there does look to be very slight tints like a bit rusty doesn't there just not obvious.

It will be good to see pics as it grows but I guess we could be in for a good old wait if its FC.

Yes op if you can capture paw pads might be bit more obvious there.

Head is not straight today at all long night with the weak kitten.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spid said:


> I believe from the other photo she had ginger on her chin.


I did notice that too wasn't greatly obvious was it.


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Dad is definately the dad, she has had no contact with any other males. Will get a pic of her pads


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

simpiggy said:


> More pics of the dark kitten


Ginger on her left front paw, and the underneath of the right one looks like ginger with black pads.


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Some more pics


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

simpiggy said:


> Some more pics


Definitely tortie.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

simpiggy said:


> Some more pics


Ah yesdefo tortie pads them, so I guess its fevor coat. I did have some great examples of FC but stupidly deleted them.

Im guessing this is what has threw you too into not knowing her colour  what does the blue tortie look like does it look a normal blue?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spid said:


> Definitely tortie.


Arnt paw pads great.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> Arnt paw pads great.


Not when you breed cats with white and all paw pads are pink!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Tortie paws. Awwwwweeee so cute ... 

Pic of fever coat too


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spid said:


> Not when you breed cats with white and all paw pads are pink!


lol yeah that's a point but those pads still come in handy when you have a cp and cp and white litter.This is how iv sorted my cps from the cp and white in the very early stages.

The cps startedto darken with the nose and ears,tail.On the cp and whites paw pads stayed pink as with nose leather.

My luna is tortie and white pt so know what your saying.


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Thankyou everybody, i was a little confused as to what she was! Yes the blue tortie is "normal" blue tortie, no FC Just this one was the odd looking one.


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Kittens are growing now (and changing colour  ) so once again a little confused, was sure the pointed girls were blue tortie points but they are now much darker and not very blue so black tortie or seal tortie? Have tried to get a decent pic showing the colour but never seems to show up well on photos


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Im pretty sure that's a seal tortie


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Thankyou  thats what i was thinking but been wrong so many times so far i've given up guessing


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

simpiggy said:


> Thankyou  thats what i was thinking but been wrong so many times so far i've given up guessing


Your welcome,what breed is she iv forgot


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_i think we need updated pictures of all the kittens ......._


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Here's the girl who i first posted about as was unsure on colour!


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

Okay, I'm going back to my original guess and say she's tortie smoke. I must admit that the seal tortie point pic you posted earlier made me also think seal tortie smoke point... But these aren't possible if neither of the parents are silver! Do you have a pic of their father? That doesn't look like a fever coat to me..


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

here is dad


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Looks to me like a seal-point in the photo, but if he's a good smoke he would - you would have to part the dark fur to see what colour it is at the roots.

Is there any silver in the pedigrees?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Both parents are BSH?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Daddy doesn't look like a BSH to me - coat too big & plush, ears too big, face not round enough.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

The photo could be very deceiving but he looks like a Ragdoll to me. It might explain the somewhat unusual (for a 'full' bred BSH) coat qualities in the kittens whereby the coats appear to be soft and 'wispy' looking and you can see a lot of pale undercoat in the tortie, making her appear smoke in the photos. All conjecture of course.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Ragdoll went through my mind as well, but I don't know SLH breeds so kept it to myself.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> The photo could be very deceiving but he looks like a Ragdoll to me. It might explain the somewhat unusual (for a 'full' bred BSH) coat qualities in the kittens whereby the coats appear to be soft and 'wispy' looking and you can see a lot of pale undercoat in the tortie, making her appear smoke in the photos. All conjecture of course.


Well, my BLH x BSH kittens have never had 'wispy' or bad coats, but dunno if a Ragdoll's coat would ruin the BSH's coat type completely. It is possible.

I haven't got a clue about the stud's breed here, but if he's an actual Ragdoll, silver isn't an option, or is there a registry which recognizes silver Raggies?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Could your girl be a red silver? 

Sire doesn't look BSH to me

We have silver Birmans here, don't think Raggies are accepted in silver though I have heard of there being some.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

I tried to go through the whole thread quickly but my internet connection (or this site) is acting up, so apologies if I missed something or am repeating stuff already discussed..
But as this seems to be a moggie litter, are you sure the seal point is the sire of this litter?

*edit* Nevermind, found the answer to that..


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## simpiggy (May 5, 2011)

Yes i'm afraid he's definately the dad....she's kept indoors so no chance anybody was able to sneak in other than my own boy


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