# roxy had her kittens!!



## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

well got uo this morning and went into my childrens bedroom to get their school uniform and i heard a squeak she had had her kittens in the bottom of thier wardrobe, the wardrobe is a narrow tall one with shelves init and she gave birth on the bottom shelf on top of my daughters pj's lol obviously didnt want to give birth to them in the boxes provided lol so i have now moved mummy and kittens into my room with a cat bed in a box with a lid and a hole so she can get out nd have put some water and food up there with her, kitten are all feeding fine, she has had 4 kittens 1 is jet black and the others are mini mes exactly the same as roxy. anything elso i should be doing at this stage? xx:thumbup:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Well done Roxy 
If you have some accurate kitchen scales it would be good if you can weigh the kittens daily to see how they are progressing, to make sure that they are getting enough milk and one isn't be pushed out by the others. Birth weights should be around 90 - 100 grams and they should put on 10-15 grams a day.
Make sure they are not disturbed too much and use anti-bacterial handwash before handling them.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

I would begin by calling vet and speaking to them about having Roxy spayed, presuming by pic she is a moggie? The vet nurses there can also advise on worming issues and supply you with medication. 

If kittens are happy and content, mum is doing a great job caring for them. Have you any knowledge about caring for a mother cat and kittens? What do you need to know?


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> Well done Roxy
> If you have some accurate kitchen scales it would be good if you can weigh the kittens daily to see how they are progressing, to make sure that they are getting enough milk and one isn't be pushed out by the others. Birth weights should be around 90 - 100 grams and they should put on 10-15 grams a day.
> Make sure they are not disturbed too much and use anti-bacterial handwash before handling them.


thank you this is very helpful!


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

congrats on your litter and well done Roxy!! 

yup, totally agree with weighing. i weigh every day for 7 days, then once a week. 10-15g per day, around 100g per week is normal.

make sure mum gets plenty of good food and water whenever she likes, and also that she isn't bleeding more than a couple of drops. It should stop in a few days.

Mum and babies should be happy and content. Keep them warm and away from bright lights until their eyes open.

I worm at 4, 8 and 12 weeks using Panacur liquid and a small syringe, you will need the weight of each kitten to get the correct dose :thumbup:


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> I would begin by calling vet and speaking to them about having Roxy spayed, presuming by pic she is a moggie? The vet nurses there can also advise on worming issues and supply you with medication.
> 
> If kittens are happy and content, mum is doing a great job caring for them. Have you any knowledge about caring for a mother cat and kittens? What do you need to know?


spaying is on to do list no worries about that!!
well i have read up befpre the kittens were born but just wanted to check that there wasnt anything i was missing.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

alisondalziel said:


> congrats on your litter and well done Roxy!!
> 
> yup, totally agree with weighing. i weigh every day for 7 days, then once a week. 10-15g per day, around 100g per week is normal.
> 
> ...


thank you will be writing this down lol


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> spaying is on to do list no worries about that!!
> well i have read up befpre the kittens were born but just wanted to check that there wasnt anything i was missing.


That's good.

What are you going to do with the kittens? Now is a good time to give this some thought, never too soon. It's generally VERY easy to find homes for kittens, but not necessarily homes where they will remain for the rest of their lives 

Please consider seeking rescue back up, contact rescues NOW and they will hopefully be in a position to help once kittens are weaned, they may also be able to help with spaying of mum, if needed.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

thank you well we will be keeping 1 of the kittens and my auntie is having a kitten and the other 2 i will sell but not silly prices as i think hopefully if someone is willing to pay for them they will take care of them, i will send them with a sort of contract i will be writing up some instructions and spaying info and i will be asking them to notify me once they have been spayed. but i will be checking round the family first to see if they would like one of the others, and i will also make it clear to whoever buys them that im happy to take them back if things change, its gonna be so hard letting them go!!!


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

You are quite right Amethyst but even with pedigree litters you can't guarantee a forever home, circumstances can change outwith people's control.

There isn't way you can ever really determine if someone is genuine. You trust when they say forever home, but who knows.

Ideally all new kitten owners keep in touch with photos etc but i know this isn't always the case, i've never heard of this happening with moggies.

Thats great to hear about some of the kittens going to family members, ideal really!! :thumbup:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> thank you well we will be keeping 1 of the kittens and my auntie is having a kitten and the other 2 i will sell but not silly prices as i think hopefully if someone is willing to pay for them they will take care of them, i will send them with a sort of contract i will be writing up some instructions and spaying info and i will be asking them to notify me once they have been spayed. but i will be checking round the family first to see if they would like one of the others, and i will also make it clear to whoever buys them that im happy to take them back if things change, its gonna be so hard letting them go!!!


You are going to sell them :nonod:

Personally the kittens would be better of re-homed by experienced rescue people. The rescue would vaccinate/microchip before re-homing, home check and offer full back up and help with neutering costs to new owners. A far better option, but obviously they would not give you money if you signed kittens over to them ... But I hope you will consider what is best for kittens


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

alisondalziel said:


> You are quite right Amethyst but even with pedigree litters you can't guarantee a forever home, circumstances can change outwith people's control.


Of course, but so often you hear of breeders telling of the wonderful homes they have lined up ... When there is every chance some of them will never stay in that home 

Too many kittens being bred and simply not enough forever homes unfortunately and that is the sad and simple truth of the matter. Cat rescues aren't full of kittens, but adolescent cats and older ones. ALL bred from someones cat at some time .... Where are those owners now when their kittens need them :confused1:

Conspicuous by their absence ...


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

I see what you're saying and to an extent i agree BUT even kittens who are re-homed by a rescue aren't guaranteed forever homes!

People are not always what they seem! I personally think that it doesn't matter how an animal arrives at a new home, it has the same chance.

If you decide to sell, you are responsible for making sure you find the best homes you can for them. For me this would be avoiding people with very young children, dogs to a degree, etc etc. I think you get a 'feeling' about certain people. If i had that feeling i wouldn't sell, simple.

You need to be comfortable with the potential buyers.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

i will defianately do my best in finding very good homes altho if they had children i wouldnt object as i have 4 children youngest being 6months old and roxy loves them and is so gentle with them so kittens will be used to children:thumbup:


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

I just wanted to add ... weighing daily for only 7 days is no where near long enough. It needs to be daily for at least 6-8weeks IMO, then every other day for the rest of the 13 weeks. Kittens go down hill so quickly that a weekly weigh in could be fatal, where as if you're weighing every day you will pick up a problem much quicker so any potential illness can be treated swiftly.

I also agree with Amethyst about getting a rescue involved to give the kittens the best possible chance when it comes to homing them.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

alisondalziel said:


> I see what you're saying and to an extent i agree BUT even kittens who are re-homed by a rescue aren't guaranteed forever homes!


No but they will (coming from a good rescue) have been vet checked, vaccinated, wormed, microchipped and have follow up help with neutering costs, or neutered by rescue when old enough. Rescues will take cats back at anytime and age. How many members of the public will who breed ... many breeders will not either and I have alas had experience of this in rescue.
A good cat breeder will ... or should.

And of course rescues do not contribute to the massive problem of unwanted cats by breeding more


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

i will take back any unwanted kitten no problem x


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

lets not argue guys:thumbup:


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

is it normal for her to not really want to eat at the moment? x


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> lets not argue guys:thumbup:


Not arguing, discussing a related topic on a forum


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2011)

Congratulations on your kittens, i am sure you will find them all lovely homes. 

Pics please


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

you said that she has food & water upstairs, what about her litter tray? remember that she must not go outside until she is spayed or she will be pregnant again well, from now really!!

hope she is doing well.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

mycatroxy said:


> is it normal for her to not really want to eat at the moment? x


if she ate the placentas then she will prob be full from them.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> if she ate the placentas then she will prob be full from them.


my girl ate all 3 then i hand fed her while she fed them a packet of food and biccis   lol she must of needed the extra boost lol!

have you tried hand feeding her? some mums like mine dont like leAVIng the kits so i handfeed mum while she feeds


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

dont worry she wont be going out til she is done same with the kitten. have tried hand feeding but not interested but your right she is probably full! will upload pics when i get back from school run!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> will upload pics when i get back from school run!


Why not give mum cat a little peace and quiet time rather than start taking photographs. She has just given birth and needs time to recover and relax. 

Make sure she is somewhere quiet and don't let your children disturb her or touch kittens yet. Please give mum and kittens a chance to bond ...


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> It's generally VERY easy to find homes for kittens, but not necessarily homes where they will remain for the rest of their lives





alisondalziel said:


> You are quite right Amethyst but even with pedigree litters you can't guarantee a forever home, circumstances can change outwith people's control.
> 
> There isn't way you can ever really determine if someone is genuine. You trust when they say forever home, but who knows.





Amethyst said:


> Of course, but so often you hear of breeders telling of the wonderful homes they have lined up ... When there is every chance some of them will never stay in that home





alisondalziel said:


> I see what you're saying and to an extent i agree BUT even kittens who are re-homed by a rescue aren't guaranteed forever homes!


Hi you two, just had to jump in here as our shelter (together with a few other big shelters and a lot of vets practices) are currently doing a study into kittens and how long they stay in their "forever" homes. The stats for moggy kittens are shockingly poor when compared to pedigree kittens sold/rehomed by reputable breeders (and the study is just in it's first year, and we all know that's the most attractive cat year  ) . I doubt very much though that any stats will ever be available for privately sold/rehomed moggy kittens. And everything will depend on the individual. EVERY moggy owner with an "oops" litter or a "just wanted her to have one litter before she was neutered" ALWAYS says thay have plenty of homes all lined up, all with cat loving family members and friends and even if the cat had 10 kittens they could rehome them all twice... YEAH right... pull the other one, it has bells on it. This just isn't the reality with moggy kittens. A very high percentage of moggy kittens will end up back in recsue circles in the first year, and the percentage that will still be with the same owners 5 years down the line... well, my guess is tiny! Pedigree cats sold/rehomed by responsible breeders have a far higher "success rate" of a forever home than moggy kittens do.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Tje said:


> EVERY moggy owner with an "oops" litter or a "just wanted her to have one litter before she was neutered" ALWAYS says thay have plenty of homes all lined up, all with cat loving family members and friends and even if the cat had 10 kittens they could rehome them all twice... YEAH right... pull the other one, it has bells on it. This just isn't the reality with moggy kittens.


Having spent years in rescue I have to agree with you :thumbup:

I once picked up a distressed heavily pregnant cat, outside on cold day. It had a collar and ID and was outside own door. Rang bell, no one home. Neighbour came out and I explained who I was and gave her my number to pass onto owner.

Owner rang, and came for their cat. I offered to take kits when weaned and help spay mum, but no they were adamant, they had the most fantastic homes waiting ...

A couple of month later a friend called asking if I could help re-home 5 kittens in the next avenue, belonging to a mum from the school ... Yep it was the same kittens I had previoulsy offerred to help, the ones that had homes lined up. The reality? Not 1 single kitten had a home waiting 

I ended up taking them all and then our rescue paid for mum to be spayed.

In rescue, we rarely had whole litters handed in to be honest though, so in some way this was the exception. We used to get older kittens and cats ... once the cuteness factor was gone 

It wasn't uncommon to take several generations of cats in to be neutered, I have collected mum cat, a daughter and two of her grand kittens  from one home :nonod: Mum and daughter cats were pregnant agaiiiiiiin, but spayed regardless for their own good. Youngsters were caught in time.

We have all been there if any involvement in cat rescue


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Why not give mum cat a little peace and quiet time rather than start taking photographs. She has just given birth and needs time to recover and relax.
> 
> Make sure she is somewhere quiet and don't let your children disturb her or touch kittens yet. Please give mum and kittens a chance to bond ...


i dont mean to be rude but i find you very patchranising mum and babies are in a quite place and ofcourse my children are giving her some peace and quite im not stupid.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

here they are a quick pic.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> here they are a quick pic.
> View attachment 58395
> 
> 
> View attachment 58396


aww they are soo lovely, and mum looks very happy and chilled.

Well done hun. xx Keep us updated on there progress xx


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

blimey they are the spit of her! love the one under her chin! 
have you weighed them yet?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Little sweeties :001_wub: Best of luck with them :thumbup:


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

Tje i love the 'bells on it saying', i can't stop chuckling!!

I do see your point yes, but i suppose NO CAT has a guaranteed forever home.


I don't think anyone meant to cause offense. I have two primary school aged children and they are all over the kittens at any opportunity. Kids will be kids. It's just important they aren't touched too much just now. Mine had countless earbashings until they learned NOT to touch my babies!! 

No one is being nasty or patronising


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> blimey they are the spit of her! love the one under her chin!
> have you weighed them yet?


no im going to wait til its a bit quieter ie when kiddies are in bed lol she hasnt left them all day! shes doing a great job!!


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## springfieldbean (Sep 13, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> here they are a quick pic.
> View attachment 58395
> 
> 
> View attachment 58396


Aw, they look like beautiful little kittens :001_wub:

Congratulations! :thumbup:


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

yeah i no, no there are well out of the way my 2 eldest daughters no not to touch them so they wont and the little 2 cant get to em lol:thumbup:


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

mycatroxy said:


> no im going to wait til its a bit quieter ie when kiddies are in bed lol she hasnt left them all day! shes doing a great job!!


I normally do mine after a few hours, leave mum to settle, or do it the next monring and keep a chart of gains, then do it the same time everyday, look for a 10G gain but the bigger the litter sometimes your see a 8gram etc

I pick mine up, but obviously me & mum are very bonded and its her 3rd litter so shes knows me, but do get them used to being handled, soon their be terrorsing the house....:lol:


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> I normally do mine after a few hours, leave mum to settle, or do it the next monring and keep a chart of gains, then do it the same time everyday, look for a 10G gain but the bigger the litter sometimes your see a 8gram etc
> 
> I pick mine up, but obviously me & mum are very bonded and its her 3rd litter so shes knows me, but do get them used to being handled, soon their be terrorsing the house....:lol:


ok thanks il make sure i do that and post later! thanks


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

mycatroxy said:


> here they are a quick pic.
> View attachment 58395
> 
> 
> View attachment 58396


bless they are so cute with their little pink noses  Roxy is very pretty too.


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## Gem16 (Aug 5, 2010)

adorable!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Oh Gosh they are absolutely gorgeous! Mum looks as pleased as punch too.


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## tylow (Feb 11, 2009)

Roxy and her kittens are adorable  She looks very content :thumbup:


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

thanks guys!!!
just been up to see her and she has eaten her food and is now back nice and cosy with her babies! x


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Why not give mum cat a little peace and quiet time rather than start taking photographs. She has just given birth and needs time to recover and relax.


Now I'm confused. People take pictures on here all the time when the babies are an hour old, and everyone always asks for pics as soon as they're born. Since when is this a terrible intrusion into the mother/baby bonding experience?

Oh and they are adorable!!!!!! Congrats!


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## GeordieBabe (Apr 7, 2009)

congrats hun there lovely, look quite big too:thumbup:, can i have the black one


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

gorgeous kittens!!

bet you can't stop looking and checking on them!!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

GeordieBabe said:


> congrats hun there lovely, look quite big too:thumbup:, can i have the black one


black one is mine!!!!!! lol

they are just so lovely!!!! roxy hasnt moved from them all day bless her i went up and she was laying outside the box while the kittens were sleeping, as soon as they were awake she got straight back in im so proud of her!


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

very cute!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

omg they are just like my Kelly was who was my first ever cat. If I didn't have my boys I'd have one tomorrow. soooo cute!!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

well i have just weighed them 
male black kitten weighs: 119g
female black n white 1:119g
female black n white 2:131g
female black n white 3:139g
so good weight i think? x


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

mycatroxy said:


> well i have just weighed them
> male black kitten weighs: 119g
> female black n white 1:119g
> female black n white 2:131g
> ...


Excellent :thumbup: lovely chunky babies


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

blimey!! they are massive fantastic weights!!!!!!!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

i no:eek6:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Awww love them they are so cute welldone to mummy cat :thumbup:


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## GeordieBabe (Apr 7, 2009)

so i was right they do look big :scared: good size


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

just to be awkward, I keep the family I got my moggie boy from updated by pics every 3 months as the kids love to seem them :O


Oops - that was a response to "Ideally all new kitten owners keep in touch with photos etc but i know this isn't always the case, i've never heard of this happening with moggies." by Alisondalziel on page one, I forgot to quote.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> i dont mean to be rude but i find you very patchranising mum and babies are in a quite place and ofcourse my children are giving her some peace and quite im not stupid.


I don't mean to be rude either, but how sad you feel the need to post pics of new born kittens (less than a day old) on forum. Why not give mum and kits a little peace and time to rest and bond ...


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I don't mean to be rude either, but how sad you feel the need to post pics of new born kittens (less than a day old) on forum. Why not give mum and kits a little peace and time to rest and bond ...


whats ur problem everyone does it!! mum and kits will be fine its just a photo no big deal not like shes picking them up or taking them from mum!!....congratz they look super cute!x


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

staceydawlz said:


> whats ur problem everyone does it!!


Speaks volumes ...


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Just got to see the kitties! Wow are they cutie snugglebums!! Well done you and Mum xx


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

dagny0823 said:


> Now I'm confused. People take pictures on here all the time when the babies are an hour old, and everyone always asks for pics as soon as they're born. Since when is this a terrible intrusion into the mother/baby bonding experience?


When I had rescue cats with their babies I allowed them weeks before taking pics, why take them sooner? But then I wasn't posting about them on a forum, just caring for mum and kits until homes could be found ... I wasn't attention seeking and didn't feel the need to pander to other peoples "wants" I guess or to seek approval. General comment about tiny kitten pics ...

Just my thoughts ...


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Tje said:


> Hi you two, just had to jump in here as our shelter (together with a few other big shelters and a lot of vets practices) are currently doing a study into kittens and how long they stay in their "forever" homes. The stats for moggy kittens are shockingly poor when compared to pedigree kittens sold/rehomed by reputable breeders (and the study is just in it's first year, and we all know that's the most attractive cat year  ) . I doubt very much though that any stats will ever be available for privately sold/rehomed moggy kittens. And everything will depend on the individual. EVERY moggy owner with an "oops" litter or a "just wanted her to have one litter before she was neutered" ALWAYS says thay have plenty of homes all lined up, all with cat loving family members and friends and even if the cat had 10 kittens they could rehome them all twice... YEAH right... pull the other one, it has bells on it. This just isn't the reality with moggy kittens. A very high percentage of moggy kittens will end up back in recsue circles in the first year, and the percentage that will still be with the same owners 5 years down the line... well, my guess is tiny! Pedigree cats sold/rehomed by responsible breeders have a far higher "success rate" of a forever home than moggy kittens do.


:thumbup:
Would you mind posting the stats? This would be very useful to cite. I am always very sceptical about these "good homes" that are always promised when a moggy gets pregnant.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> I don't mean to be rude either, but how sad you feel the need to post pics of new born kittens (less than a day old) on forum. Why not give mum and kits a little peace and time to rest and bond ...


and i s'pose you have said this to everyone else who has posted a pic to have you???? i took a pic about 6hours after they had been born and MY cat and kittens are having plenty of peace and quite thank you!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

staceydawlz said:


> whats ur problem everyone does it!! mum and kits will be fine its just a photo no big deal not like shes picking them up or taking them from mum!!....congratz they look super cute!x


thank you!!!!!!!xxx


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> and i s'pose you have said this to everyone else who has posted a pic to have you???? i took a pic about 6hours after they had been born and MY cat and kittens are having plenty of peace and quite thank you!


I said in another post it applies to everyone taking pics of new born kittens.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> and i s'pose you have said this to everyone else who has posted a pic to have you???? i took a pic about 6hours after they had been born and MY cat and kittens are having plenty of peace and quite thank you!


Please hun just ignore them, they are lovely pics and you have done nothing wrong. Enjoy the new kitties xx


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> When I had rescue cats with their babies I allowed them weeks before taking pics, why take them sooner? But then I wasn't posting about them on a forum, just caring for mum and kits until homes could be found ... I wasn't attention seeking and didn't feel the need to pander to other peoples "wants" I guess or to seek approval. General comment about tiny kitten pics ...
> 
> Just my thoughts ...


well thats you isnt it!! just because everyone does things differently it doesnt make it wrong!! i s'pose you said this to taylorbaby who also posted pics of her newly born kittens? and i trust her judgement as she is an experienced breeder!!!
and because im PROUD of my cat and her beautiful kittens im attention seeking?? well if thats how you see it fine stop giving me attention and go somewhere else your the only one who frankly is being rude and unnessasary!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> Please hun just ignore them, they are lovely pics and you have done nothing wrong. Enjoy the new kitties xx


thank you for saying xxx


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> :thumbup:
> Would you mind posting the stats? This would be very useful to cite. I am always very sceptical about these "good homes" that are always promised when a moggy gets pregnant.


I'd be interested too especially if recent! Personally if I had a cat that had kittens (which she wouldn't), I can't think of ANYONE who would actually want one. All the people I know who I would re-home too, already have cats!

So these "good homes" waiting always "amuses" me, especially after rescue experience 

Now people just sell them online for often silly amounts of money, unvaccinated, no neutering help, microchip etc. :frown:

Kittens would be so much better off signed over to a good rescue.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I dont see why putting pics up is a big deal??  we have had very very experienced breeders on here of both dogs and cats posting pics of their babies straight after birth in fact some have put videos up of them actually giving birth


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I didnt take pics of my girls first birth, but I took a few for myself on her 2nd and people having a kitten, then on this one I took pics for myself people buying and if people wished to see them I put them up, I also took videos, mum was fine we are very bonded, if there was anyway that she was in distress then dont do it, a few pics of mum with kittens taken about a few (i think she said 6) hours after in the OP case, how is that stopping mum from bonding? :confused1:


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> :thumbup:
> *Would you mind posting the stats? *This would be very useful to cite. I am always very sceptical about these "good homes" that are always promised when a moggy gets pregnant.





Amethyst said:


> *I'd be interested too especially if recent! * Personally if I had a cat that had kittens (which she wouldn't), I can't think of ANYONE who would actually want one. All the people I know who I would re-home too, already have cats!
> 
> So these "good homes" waiting always "amuses" me, especially after rescue experience
> 
> ...


It's highly unlikely those stats will be available now as Tje has been banned, which IMO, is a great loss to cat welfare on this forum. No-one cares about cat welfare quite like Tje.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

dougal22 said:


> It's highly unlikely those stats will be available now as Tje has been banned, which IMO, is a great loss to cat welfare on this forum. No-one cares about cat welfare quite like Tje.


What a shame and loss to the forum


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

dougal22 said:


> It's highly unlikely those stats will be available now as Tje has been banned, which IMO, is a great loss to cat welfare on this forum. No-one cares about cat welfare quite like Tje.


oh no


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## Pardalis (Jan 15, 2011)

Those kittens are lovely!

I have my own stat to offer. 1 male bog standard black moggy. Often grumpy and eccentric has been in his forever home for 7 years now.

2 female kitten moggies have been here for 4 weeks. Whilst they are cute and funny as kittens I am really looking forward to them growing up and seeing how they turn out as adults. For me it's exciting to be part of what could be a 15-20 year relationship if I'm lucky.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Pardalis said:


> Those kittens are lovely!
> 
> I have my own stat to offer. 1 male bog standard black moggy. Often grumpy and eccentric has been in his forever home for 7 years now.
> 
> 2 female kitten moggies have been here for 4 weeks. Whilst they are cute and funny as kittens I am really looking forward to them growing up and seeing how they turn out as adults. For me it's exciting to be part of what could be a 15-20 year relationship if I'm lucky.


That's lovely to hear, but I doubt we'll get many owners giving stats on the kittens they took from "accidental litters" and didn't keep 

Hope you have many happy years with your cats. One of mine lived to be 19 and a friends was 21 x


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

dougal22 said:


> It's highly unlikely those stats will be available now as Tje has been banned, which IMO, is a great loss to cat welfare on this forum. No-one cares about cat welfare quite like Tje.


Why's she been banned? 
The forum has lost out on a great member.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Why's she been banned?
> The forum has lost out on a great member.


I agree, I have learned a lot from her posts and she was without doubt a compassionate and passionate person when it came to cats and cat welfare/rescue.

:frown2:


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Why's she been banned?
> The forum has lost out on a great member.


It's not entirely clear SL, she emailed me to say she got a PM from Mark saying she was banned because there had been a lot of complaints about her. She advised she didnt get any prior warnings though and she said the last time she was 'unbanned' that she was told in the future she would get warnings if her behavior was crossing a line.

But this time, there were no warnings, just a ban 

A huge loss to PF


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

dougal22 said:


> It's not entirely clear SL, she emailed me to say she got a PM from Mark saying she was banned because there had been a lot of complaints about her. She advised she didnt get any prior warnings though and she said the last time she was 'unbanned' that she was told in the future she would get warnings if her behavior was crossing a line.
> 
> But this time, there were no warnings, just a ban
> 
> A huge loss to PF


Last time she was banned I was banned along with her neither of us got any warnings and because of this Mark unbanned us and did say that we would get warnings in future (I have not had any warnings up to date :thumbup: and dont plan to), maybe her and Mark will work something out I know he is very fair.

It is a huge loss as we could do with more people like her, big caring heart, great information and very honest.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Last time she was banned I was banned along with her neither of us got any warnings and because of this Mark unbanned us and did say that we would get warnings in future (I have not had any warnings up to date :thumbup: and dont plan to), maybe her and Mark will work something out I know he is very fair.
> 
> It is a huge loss as we could do with more people like her, big caring heart, great information and very honest.


Yes I have found Mark very fair too, so hopefully we will see her here again. I hope so.


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## Pardalis (Jan 15, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> That's lovely to hear, but I doubt we'll get many owners giving stats on the kittens they took from "accidental litters" and didn't keep
> 
> Hope you have many happy years with your cats. One of mine lived to be 19 and a friends was 21 x


Thank you

I'm proud to be a moggy owner and want to point out that a lot of us are responsible.

Although if Jazz keeps licking our noses in the middle of the night she might find herself at Battersea!!!!!!

Of course I'm joking, but she manages to get her little kitty tongue right up your nostril......


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

Pardalis said:


> Thank you
> 
> I'm proud to be a moggy owner and want to point out that a lot of us are responsible.
> 
> ...


my one licks your eyes and eyelashes :scared: and if i cover my eyes so he cant get to them, he licks my ears!! it tickles!!:lol:


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

celicababe1986 said:


> my one licks your eyes and eyelashes :scared: and if i cover my eyes so he cant get to them, he licks my ears!! it tickles!!:lol:


My winter does that, he licks my eyes while I am getting off to sleep. As a kitten he used to lick me neck I would wake up thinking what's going on and winter would be grooming my neck.:lol:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

celicababe1986 said:


> my one licks your eyes and eyelashes :scared: and if i cover my eyes so he cant get to them, he licks my ears!! it tickles!!:lol:


Mine has a thing for my chin :lol::lol::thumbup:


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> My winter does that, he licks my eyes while I am getting off to sleep. As a kitten he used to lick me neck I would wake up thinking what's going on and winter would be grooming my neck.:lol:


It is strange lol , I wonder why they do it...he doesnt do it to anyone else
silly cats :lol:


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

I don't see how taking a couple of pictures, which only takes a couple of seconds to do, could disrupt the mother/kit bonding process any more than removing the kittens to weigh them could. Seems a pedantic point to make. 

Your kittens are beautiful, OP. Enjoy them


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

back to the subject.......
how is mum and kits today??


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Pardalis said:


> Thank you
> 
> I'm proud to be a moggy owner and want to point out that a lot of us are responsible.
> 
> ...


My cats were all moggies too, all rescues and all loved for life, however as a "rescuer" I took in a LOT who were not as lucky as our kitties 

My sis has a cat, she is his third home, he was initially bought from advert in newspaper, £50.00 for an unvaccinated etc moggie kitten 

Eventually he ended up with my sister, he is spoilt rotten, but it could have been so different for him ...

Never mind, safe now


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

the ban speaks for it self!! and not the first time apparently.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

well i have checked again and i think we have 2 boys and 2 girls lol will check again later when i weigh them. x


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> the ban speaks for it self!! and not the first time apparently.


Tje is a very good friend of mine. And the last time she was banned unfairly as was I.

If people spayed their cats before letting them out (not just you but many others before you and after you) Tje wouldnt have to post heartfilled posts as often. Its upsetting for everyone who see's first hand how many cats are in rescues all over the world.


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Tje is a very good friend of mine. And the last time she was banned unfairly as was I.
> 
> If people spayed their cats before letting them out (not just you but many others before you and after you) Tje wouldnt have to post heartfilled posts as often. Its upsetting for everyone who see's first hand how many cats are in rescues all over the world.


She called somebody a '******* dimwit' yesterday. That is inappropriate behaviour on a family forum. I've seen some disgusting behaviour from her on here. Good, sound advice - no qualms there; but from what I've seen she is a nasty, intimidating individual and the ban was deserved.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

shetlandlover said:


> Tje is a very good friend of mine. And the last time she was banned unfairly as was I.
> 
> If people spayed their cats before letting them out (not just you but many others before you and after you) Tje wouldnt have to post heartfilled posts as often. Its upsetting for everyone who see's first hand how many cats are in rescues all over the world.


i understand her passion but she has a horrible way of saying things and judging people she has obviously upset a lot of people to have been banned. that is all im saying there isnt smoke without fire.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

siberiankiss said:


> She called somebody a '******* dimwit' yesterday. That is inappropriate behaviour on a family forum. I've seen some disgusting behaviour from her on here. Good, sound advice - no qualms there; but from what I've seen she is a nasty, intimidating individual and the ban was deserved.


:thumbup:completely agree and i have been on the end of her abuse not a nice place to be!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

If people spayed their cats before letting them out (not just you but many others before you and after you) Tje wouldnt have to post heartfilled posts as often. Its upsetting for everyone who see's first hand how many cats are in rescues all over the world.[/QUOTE]

But this is ultimately a Pet forum where people come to share their stories about their pets -not to be constantly put down for what they have or havent done - I DO agree with neutering but I accept that not everyone will share that opinion - yes its heartbreaking to see but we need to "educate" not dictate.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

siberiankiss said:


> She called somebody a '******* dimwit' yesterday. That is inappropriate behaviour on a family forum. I've seen some disgusting behaviour from her on here. Good, sound advice - no qualms there; but from what I've seen she is a nasty, intimidating individual and the ban was deserved.


I have no idea what the ***** is but I think I know what word it means. It's frustrating for her and many others on here who post the same advice countless times to people that dont want advise but ask for it, with no intentions of taking it. I am not saying she was right I think before you lose your cool you should take a break but I can see how it gets to the long term members.

I dont know who she called a dimwit but I have been called worse by members who are still here.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> i understand her passion but she has a horrible way of saying things and judging people she has obviously upset a lot of people to have been banned. that is all im saying there isnt smoke without fire.


She is very opinionated which does get her in trouble but for what she offers the forum its worth it. Can anyone point me to were she called someone that? I seem to have been living under a rock lately.



suzy93074 said:


> But this is ultimately a Pet forum where people come to share their stories about their pets -not to be constantly put down for what they have or havent done - I DO agree with neutering but I accept that not everyone will share that opinion - yes its heartbreaking to see but we need to "educate" not dictate.


I agree with you completely suzy, I always stick to the "before you lose it take a break" rule but I think her sound advise is worth the now and again out burst.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

but if things pee her off so much dont answer them!!! ive seen her reply to threads where its been a simple question and she has then given her big speech and it was nothing to do with the original question! again there is a way of saying things but calling somebody a ******* dimwitt is bulling in my book.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

shetlandlover said:


> She is very opinionated which does get her in trouble but for what she offers the forum its worth it. Can anyone point me to were she called someone that? I seem to have been living under a rock lately.
> 
> I agree with you completely suzy, I always stick to the "before you lose it take a break" rule but I think her sound advise is worth the now and again out burst.


its not if it leaves people feeling like crap and upset!!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> I have no idea what the ***** is but I think I know what word it means. It's frustrating for her and many others on here who post the same advice countless times to people that dont want advise but ask for it, with no intentions of taking it. I am not saying she was right I think before you lose your cool you should take a break but I can see how it gets to the long term members.
> 
> I dont know who she called a dimwit but I have been called worse by members who are still here.


It was me lol and I took it on the chin although I did send a message to a mod to say it was out of order to get personal. I can take abuse believe me I have had much much worse - but I know there were a few others on here who recieved nasty PM's saying some awful stuff that affected one member very badly in particular - it shouldnt get to that stage imo.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

your more likely to listen to somebodies advice if it is put across in a friendly manner she just seems very angry all the time.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> its not if it leaves people feeling like crap and upset!!


Trust me I have been called a few things on here ranging from back yard breeder to ****, childish, pedigree snob (all in the same PM). It does hurt but when you post on a public forum you get all opinion's even the ones you dont want to hear. (your job is to prove them wrong).



suzy93074 said:


> It was me lol and I took it on the chin although I did send a message to a mod to say it was out of order to get personal. I can take abuse believe me I have had much much worse - but I know there were a few others on here who recieved nasty PM's saying some awful stuff that affected one member very badly in particular - it shouldnt get to that stage imo.


Why did she call you that?:confused1: I expected it to be a newbie with 3 pregnant cats living in a rabbit hutch or something not you....:lol:

And no it shouldnt get to the stage of nasty PM's.


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

The thread in question has been deleted. It wasn't the only horrible thing she said on there, either. 

I was going to leave this forum and go elsewhere, but I feel slightly less intimidated now she is not about. Hopefully she can adjust her attitude and reassess how she talks to people and can return here one day - I agree a knowledge base like that is important on a forum such as this, but unfortunately that is outweighed tenfold by her appalling attitude.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

anyway.........................roxy is doing great she has had a little wonder around today while the kittens have been asleep but she is straight back up there after she has been eating very well but hasnt been to the loo yet? is this normal? otherwise she seems happy and content, kittens are lovely all nice and clean, i saw 2 of them earlier having a fight over roxy nipple lol so cute! x


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Trust me I have been called a few things on here ranging from back yard breeder to ****, childish, pedigree snob (all in the same PM). It does hurt but when you post on a public forum you get all opinion's even the ones you dont want to hear. (your job is to prove them wrong).
> 
> Why did she call you that?:confused1: I expected it to be a newbie with 3 pregnant cats living in a rabbit hutch or something not you....:lol:


Well we have never really seen eye to eye tbo lol but hey hoe - in all fairness I dont think we should discuss it as she is not here to defend herself.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> If people spayed their cats before letting them out (not just you but many others before you and after you) Tje wouldnt have to post heartfilled posts as often. Its upsetting for everyone who see's first hand how many cats are in rescues all over the world.


I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Years ago when I was 17, I found a little black and white cat and we took it home. I was so naive, I couldn't tell gender, although it was almost fully grown. My mum and dad was clueless too  I knew NOTHING about cats! No internet in those days .... So what did I do?

I picked telephone, rang vet and booked an appointment to have it checked over. Vet told me "it" was female and asked if she had been "calling" I had no idea what he meant 

Vet advised spay asap in case already pregnant. She was booked in next day and spayed.

Hardly rocket science?

We had no car, she went on bus to and from vet, but taxi home after operation. We had little money, mum paid half, I paid half.

If I could do it at 17, why can't other people? As I said it's not rocket science arranging a cat spay (or castration) 

There is more information available online and from forums than ever before and so many rescues now help. I have a rescue friend who even ferries cats and dogs back and forth from vets! The rescue even paying vet fees many times.

In this day and age we should not be seeing cats that have an owner having "accidental" litters. There is NO excuse.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with you.
> 
> Years ago when I was 17, I found a little black and white cat and we took it home. I was so naive, I couldn't tell gender, although it was almost fully grown. My mum and dad was clueless too  I knew NOTHING about cats! No internet in those days .... So what did I do?
> 
> ...


When I got my cat I was ignorant to a lot of what should and shouldnt be done but I wanted to learn - hence Pet Forum - coming on here I have learnt so much about cats and in fact animals in general and I know If I was to get another cat I would make a much better informed decision and go to rescue for one - but unfortunately not everyone is the same and no matter how hard we push and shove and try and educate we have to accept that not all people will look after their animals the way we would or do. I think those that work in rescue are amazing and do a fab job BUT I think maybe some become very cynical too because of what they see on a day to day basis - I think sometimes accidents DO happen - doesnt make somenone a bad owner as has been made out before on here -but we should help to re-educate not bang on about the mistake


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> I think those that work in rescue are amazing and do a fab job BUT I think maybe some become very cynical too because of what they see on a day to day basis - I think sometimes accidents DO happen - doesnt make somenone a bad owner as has been made out before on here -but we should help to re-educate not bang on about the mistake


Does begging for pictures and cooing over accidental litters help? Not suggesting you do personally! But it's what we see isn't it 

Maybe if people were aware of the real problems of unwanted/abandoned/feral cats they might think differently, but they generally just want to ignore that aspect and show off their kittens.

General comment and just as easily applied to puppies and other animals :frown:


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Does begging for pictures and cooing over accidental litters help? Not suggesting you do personally! But it's what we see isn't it
> 
> Maybe if people were aware of the real problems of unwanted/abandoned/feral cats they might think differently, but they generally just want to ignore that aspect and show off their kittens.
> 
> General comment and just as easily applied to puppies and other animals :frown:


But you cant judge everybody by that standard!!

There are GENUINE people out there and we have to give them a chance, not just jump on them as soon as they come on here with there pets.

And that goes for all animals, the dog breeding section is the worst imo on here for that.

I totally understand how much we see of the stupidity of human errors, and the rescue aspect of it. It is not nice to see, and well done for all those that help and are trying to keep numbers down to a minimum xxxx


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Does begging for pictures and cooing over accidental litters help? Not suggesting you do personally! But it's what we see isn't it
> 
> Maybe if people were aware of the real problems of unwanted/abandoned/feral cats they might think differently, but they generally just want to ignore that aspect and show off their kittens.
> 
> General comment and just as easily applied to puppies and other animals :frown:


But a lot of posters with accidental litters come on for a bit of support - I have seen where experienced members stay up half the night helping novices with both cats and dogs giving birth on here - ive read many many pages of births and I have learnt SO much - if we didnt do this and sometimes put aside our stong beliefs and just try and remain impartial for the animals sakes then a lot of people me included would not have the information and knowledge that is now on this forum - all the stickys all the whelping threads from way back would not exist for new members to look through - - as for pics well I personally LOVE looking at kittie and puppie pics  and after reading thru the threads its nice to see the end result - but I can see what you are saying - I know it does get frustrating sometimes when people seem ignorant but that doesnt make them bad owners or bad people


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Of course everyone will have their own perspective ~ such is life. Just sad to read these threads, it makes you realise that those trying to help rescue cats are "on a hiding for nothing" I guess. Also upsetting to read some of these kittens are going to be sold on. But lot's of people do this now. Handing over to a good rescue would be a better option, but of course no money would be given ...


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

mycatroxy said:


> i understand her passion but she has a horrible way of saying things and judging people she has obviously upset a lot of people to have been banned. that is all im saying there isnt smoke without fire.


lol well you can actually get smoke without fire  not sure Why that saying excists! 



suzy93074 said:


> It was me lol and I took it on the chin although I did send a message to a mod to say it was out of order to get personal. I can take abuse believe me I have had much much worse - but I know there were a few others on here who recieved nasty PM's saying some awful stuff that affected one member very badly in particular - it shouldnt get to that stage imo.


who has the time to send a nasty pm and why would you? its a forum!  



shetlandlover said:


> Trust me I have been called a few things on here ranging from back yard breeder to ****, childish, pedigree snob (all in the same PM). It does hurt but when you post on a public forum you get all opinion's even the ones you dont want to hear. (your job is to prove them wrong).
> 
> And no it shouldnt get to the stage of nasty PM's.


  



mycatroxy said:


> anyway.........................roxy is doing great she has had a little wonder around today while the kittens have been asleep but she is straight back up there after she has been eating very well but hasnt been to the loo yet? is this normal? otherwise she seems happy and content, kittens are lovely all nice and clean, i saw 2 of them earlier having a fight over roxy nipple lol so cute! x


yes its normal!



suzy93074 said:


> But a lot of posters with _*accidental litters *_come on for a bit of support - I have seen where experienced members stay up half the night helping novices with both cats and dogs giving birth on here - ive read many many pages of births and I have learnt SO much - if we didnt do this and sometimes put aside our stong beliefs and just try and remain impartial for the animals sakes then a lot of people me included would not have the information and knowledge that is now on this forum - all the stickys all the whelping threads from way back would not exist for new members to look through - - as for pics well I personally LOVE looking at kittie and puppie pics  and after reading thru the threads its nice to see the end result - but I can see what you are saying - I know it does get frustrating sometimes when people seem ignorant but that doesnt make them bad owners or bad people


_to be honest there is No such thing as a 'accidental litter' and 'accident' by definition is something that you cant control / see / stop / prevent

pregnancys in kittens/cats CAN be Prevented! so it Isnt a 'accident' if they were neutered at 5-6months, as being pregnant by 'accident' normally happens at around 8-12months when they 'accidently' get outside when in call etc, then it wouldnt happen! _


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Of course everyone will have their own perspective ~ such is life. Just sad to read these threads, it makes you realise that those trying to help rescue cats are "on a hiding for nothing" I guess. Also upsetting to read some of these kittens are going to be sold on. But lot's of people do this now. Handing over to a good rescue would be a better option, but of course no money would be given ...


I wouldnt say its for nothing at all - can you imagine if all the doctors and all the vets and all the people who help others just got bogged down by the negatives all time and thought oh sod it -for every say 3 people who dont want the help and advice there is always one that does :thumbup: why let that one person suffer because of the others ?? as the saying goes we cannot please everybody all of the time


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

You know what really infuriates me about all the Tje hate posts?

If she reported half, just half of the abuse she receives via PM, Rep, email etc etc there would be many more bans more just than hers.

She could have gotten many people banned not so long ago for a certain situation going on via the PM system. But she didn't.

At least if she has something to say she does it openly and honestly. She doesn't say anything behind the scenes that she wouldn't post on the forums.

At the end of the day she was/is here for the purpose of education. I've heard some of the horror stories she has witnessed over the years that would make you be physically sick. She gets frustrated seeing unnecessary suffering posted about on the forums, and she is definately fed up (like many of us) of seeing people support/agree/back pat/ sympathise with people who just don't seem to understand that while you have a pet in your care you need to drop the selfishness at the door and do everything in your power to give that animal everything it needs. Whether this be health care, food, a clean litter tray, good socialisation, neutering and being kept safe from the hazards outdoors.

I'd class Tje as a friend, and one that I am proud to call a friend because of her beliefs.

Those who complain about the way people point out what you might/might not being doing in a not so ideal way ... isn't it funny that it is exactly those of you who are complaining? The truth does hurt. But why do you feel the need to try and make someone feel bad for pointing out those truths to you?

There are some fab people on here who have come out of the other side of this kind of thing.They will openly post that they once did something on the forums that lead to them getting earache. But those people are intelligent enough to realise the good intended by it. They are still here and they go on to be educators themselves.

The only way animal welfare issues will ever change is by the content of the above paragraph becoming a more common cycle.

Learn by your mistakes and use the knowledge you gain to teach someone else who is in the shoes you once were in. Maybe that way we would hear fewer new stories about animal cruelty and there would perhaps be fewer animals living out their lives in small pens at a rescue centre.

[/soap box][/snap]


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> You know what really infuriates me about all the Tje hate posts?
> 
> *If she reported half, just half of the abuse she receives via PM, Rep, email etc etc there would be many more bans more just than hers.
> 
> ...


Rep +++++++++++++++++++++

I couldnt agree with it more if I tried.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> lol well you can actually get smoke without fire  not sure Why that saying excists!
> 
> who has the time to send a nasty pm and why would you? its a forum!
> 
> ...





Aurelia said:


> You know what really infuriates me about all the Tje hate posts?
> 
> If she reported half, just half of the abuse she receives via PM, Rep, email etc etc there would be many more bans more just than hers.
> 
> ...


Well I can categorically state I have NEVER sent her a nasty PM or message we have only ever spoken on the open forum - but like I have said before it works BOTH ways just as you know others who have abused her via PM I know others who have been abused too - again I shall say this should not be discussed as the said person is not here and we are not supposed to discuss banned members.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> You know what really infuriates me about all the Tje hate posts?
> 
> If she reported half, just half of the abuse she receives via PM, Rep, email etc etc there would be many more bans more just than hers.
> 
> ...


Brilliant post Aurelia :thumbup:


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> Those who complain about the way people point out what you might/might not being doing in a not so ideal way ... isn't it funny that it is exactly those of you who are complaining? The truth does hurt. But why do you feel the need to try and make someone feel bad for pointing out those truths to you?


That isn't true. I've never been on the wrong side of her, thankfully - yet I was one of the people who reported her. I thought her attitude stunk and the way she speaks/spoke to other members was horrendous. Bordering on bullying. This should be a family friendly forum and people with an attitude like hers should be disciplined.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Of course everyone will have their own perspective ~ such is life. Just sad to read these threads, it makes you realise that those trying to help rescue cats are "on a hiding for nothing" I guess. Also upsetting to read some of these kittens are going to be sold on. But lot's of people do this now. Handing over to a good rescue would be a better option, but of course no money would be given ...


see there you go again prejudging! i want to find homes for the other 2 kittens myself that is MY choice!! and in order for me to find good homes yes i will sell them as my reckoning is that if somebody is willing to pay for them then they are very wanted and hopefully they have a better chance being a long term commitment but i will take them back if something changes so whats wrong with that?? why am i going to burdon the rescue centres with my kittens when i can find them homes myself??


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Well I can categorically state I have NEVER sent her a nasty PM or message we have only ever spoken on the open forum - but like I have said before it works BOTH ways just as you know others who have abused her via PM I know others who have been abused too - again I shall say this should not be discussed as the said person is not here and we are not supposed to discuss banned members.


why have you quoted me in that reply???


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> why have you quoted me in that reply???


Ooops im sorry I didnt mean to lol :arf::arf:


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Ooops im sorry I didnt mean to lol :arf::arf:


oh i was going to say lol!!!


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> to be honest there is No such thing as a 'accidental litter' and 'accident' by definition is something that you cant control / see / stop / prevent
> 
> pregnancys in kittens/cats CAN be Prevented! so it Isnt a 'accident' if they were neutered at 5-6months, as being pregnant by 'accident' normally happens at around 8-12months when they 'accidently' get outside when in call etc, then it wouldnt happen!


I agree with this completely.

However, when people join this forum and ask for advice - they should get that. What's happened has happened and the important thing is that the right advice is received for the sake of the animals involved. Interrogating someone, telling (or implying) that they are stupid, name calling, patronising etc is inappropriate and is not going to ensure that somebody takes your advice on board.

Nobody deserves to be spoken to the way that Tje has spoken to people on here, especially not those who are actively seeking help and/or advice. Opinions/thought processes are easy to change, by replying calmly and considerately - dictating to somebody and patronising them isn't going to make them respect your opinion. I appreciate that Tje may well have been a valuable source of knowledge - that doesn't mean that I respect her or her opinions.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> oh i was going to say lol!!!


I think I had clicked the " on yours befoe replying to Auriella cos it was just above it LOL :lol::lol:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> why am i going to burdon the rescue centres with my kittens when i can find them homes myself??


Young kittens would be quickly re-homed 

A rescue centre will vet check, microchip and vaccinate before placing in a home checked environment and follow up to ensure kitten is spayed, many will pay for this as it is included in donation 

Will you do all this? If not, please do contact local rescues and ask if they can help at a later date :thumbup: Seriously it will be in the kittens best interests


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> see there you go again prejudging! i want to find homes for the other 2 kittens myself that is MY choice!! and in order for me to find good homes yes i will sell them as my reckoning is that if somebody is willing to pay for them then they are very wanted and hopefully they have a better chance being a long term commitment but i will take them back if something changes so whats wrong with that?? why am i going to burdon the rescue centres with my kittens when i can find them homes myself??


I was going to say this. If the OP is in a position to care for and look after the kittens until they find homes - surely that is better than to palm them off to a rescue centre, whose resources are already stretched and the kittens wouldn't get nearly as much enrichment or attention?

I agree also that it's fair to ask for money for a privately rehomed kitten. If somebody isn't able or willing to pay then that suggests more about them than it does about the rehomer. Perhaps it would be nice, however, if the OP then donated that money to a rescue centre.

EDIT: Though of course it's worth considering that the rescue would spay/neuter and vaccinate.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Well I can categorically state I have NEVER sent her a nasty PM or message we have only ever spoken on the open forum - but like I have said before it works BOTH ways just as you know others who have abused her via PM I know others who have been abused too - again I shall say this should not be discussed as the said person is not here and we are not supposed to discuss banned members.


Suzy, we've banged heads many times in the past, but more recently you have been a total sweet heart to me.

Please trust me when I say that the kind of thing that was going on via the PM system was much worse than what I presume were a few harsh words said to someone DIRECTLY. Also I can't imagine her PMing anyone without the other person messaging abuse to her first. I may be wrong there, but unless you personally have had it happen ... well we are just going by hear say aren't we? Even if someone forwards a PM (which is against the rules I might add  and for a good reason) they can omit previous quoted PM's so it looks one sided.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Young kittens would be quickly re-homed
> 
> A rescue centre will vet check, microchip and vaccinate before placing in a home checked environment and follow up to ensure kitten is spayed, many will pay for this as it is included in donation
> 
> Will you do all this? If not, please do contact local rescues and ask if they can help at a later date :thumbup: Seriously it will be in the kittens best interests


most of the people that join here with a rescue kitten from a rescue, the kitten is 8 weeks old and not neutered or vac'd??


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

siberiankiss said:


> EDIT: Though of course it's worth considering that the rescue would spay/neuter and vaccinate.


Definitely, how many people selling moggie kittens will microchip/vax/neuter

Maybe OP is planning to do all this though 

I see kittens for sale locally for silly prices (no doubt to ensure good homes ... ahem) while kittens are available from rescues all "sorted" 

It's cheaper to adopt from a good rescue than to buy from people selling moggie kittens privately :thumbup: Even those who give them away, once you add everything up you need to do


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

That said though, good homes are out there. The OP would need to look for the right things and ideally carry out a homecheck and/or home to people she knows/friends of friends so it's easy to check up. 

I took on a private rehome moggy. He wasn't vaccinated or neutered and these are the first things I've seen to. It's cost me a fortune, far more than a rescue would ask in donation - but there was never any question as to whether or not I would get it done. Trust me, good homes exist - they might sometimes just take a little longer to find.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> Suzy, we've banged heads many times in the past, but more recently you have been a total sweet heart to me.
> 
> Please trust me when I say that the kind of thing that was going on via the PM system was much worse than what I presume were a few harsh words said to someone DIRECTLY. Also I can't imagine her PMing anyone without the other person messaging abuse to her first. I may be wrong there, but unless you personally have had it happen ... well we are just going by hear say aren't we? Even if someone forwards a PM (which is against the rules I might add  and for a good reason) they can omit previous quoted PM's so it looks one sided.


Yes and that just proves that we do not hold grudges  we have butted heads on many occasions with regards to cat chat - but I would always be there for you in other areas in a shot to help  I accept totally what you are saying it is hearsay - but I know one person was deeply upset - in all fairness I dont think I could have had the same conversation I am having with you now with Tje - I had on many occasions even whilst we were arguing said that she had a vast knowledge etc and repeatedly said I agreed with the advice she gave but she never acknoweleged that she has never once admitted that maybe she was a bit harsh in her judgments or opinions and thinks we are all wrong and she is right ALL of the time - I just think for many members on here who are a bit "softer" she became unapproachable - we are not all toughies who can take shite that is given out hence they complained.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Young kittens would be quickly re-homed
> 
> A rescue centre will vet check, microchip and vaccinate before placing in a home checked environment and follow up to ensure kitten is spayed, many will pay for this as it is included in donation
> 
> Will you do all this? If not, please do contact local rescues and ask if they can help at a later date :thumbup: Seriously it will be in the kittens best interests


Do all Resue Neuter and do vacs then?? I didnt think they did


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> I can't imagine her PMing anyone without the other person messaging abuse to her first. I may be wrong there, but unless you personally have had it happen ... well we are just going by hear say aren't we?


Well I *can* stick my hand up and admit that I received a very nasty, bullying and offensive pm from the banned member....and NO, I had not previously sent her a pm but had spoken up on a thread online here.
Heated exchanges on forum can happen, and sometimes tempers flare....but pursuing someone in cold blood to harangue them privately is something else entirely.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Do all Resue Neuter and do vacs then?? I didnt think they did


In our area yes, certainly rescues I know of. They do not do paediatric neuters, some rescues do, but they follow up and spay as part of adoption fee.
They also microchip, the ladies are trained to do this themselves.

If anyone is looking to adopt, it would be important they contact individual rescues and ask their protocol. Many rescues will also help with spaying mum cats too, as well as males in the house ... Tom cats obviously! It's pointless them taking kittens if owner is going to breed from her again


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Do all Resue Neuter and do vacs then?? I didnt think they did


I just said that and no one answered me 

when people join here with a rescue kitten from a rescue its always 8weeks old with no vacs and not neutered.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Hey Roxy's Mum

*DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH YOUR KITTENS*
:thumbup:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> In our area yes, certainly rescues I know of. They do not do paediatric neuters, some rescues do, but they follow up and spay as part of adoption fee.
> They also microchip, the ladies are trained to do this themselves.
> 
> Wow they do a lot then which is good
> ...


Yes I think it would probably vary from place to place.



Taylorbaby said:


> I just said that and no one answered me
> 
> when people join here with a rescue kitten from a rescue its always 8weeks old with no vacs and not neutered.


I have seen that many times on here too - I dont think all rescue do things to protocol maybe so in some cases I would say IF the owner is going to be responsible and ensure good homes then they should - and as Amethyst said the costs they reiceve could go to rescue.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> I just said that and no one answered me
> 
> when people join here with a rescue kitten from a rescue its always 8weeks old with no vacs and not neutered.


Not all rescues are good rescues alas, like breeders, some better than others.

Not all rescues will do paediatric neuters, which is good in a way, I wouldn't do it to a tiny kitten or puppy. Just my opinion.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Paddypaws said:


> Well I *can* stick my hand up and admit that I received a very nasty, bullying and offensive pm from the banned member....and NO, I had not previously sent her a pm but had spoken up on a thread online here.
> Heated exchanges on forum can happen, and sometimes tempers flare....but pursuing someone in cold blood to harangue them privately is something else entirely.


 Now read that again to yourself. She PM'd you instead of replying to you publicly on the forums like YOU did  I think I know the situation you're referring to, and can I just say that some of you are very ignorant to that fact that what you do is also bullying.

It's a 'Pot calling kettle black' kind of situation.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Not all rescues are good rescues alas, like breeders, some better than others.
> 
> Not all rescues will do paediatric neuters, which is good in a way, I wouldn't do it to a tiny kitten or puppy. Just my opinion.


Yes I wouldnt either its too young for my liking


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes I wouldnt either its too young for my liking


I can see the "logic" behind it, but it doesn't seem right does it?

Maybe one day it will be the "norm" who knows, it would certainly stop early pregnancies. But then if people can't organise themselves to spay at say 5 months, I doubt they will manage it any earlier ...


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes I wouldnt either its too young for my liking


This is one of the things I struggle to get my head around. But one thing that comes to mind over and over when I think about it ...

What is it preventing?

Then it makes me see the benefits in a different light. The trouble with trying to do something about the rescue crisis, is that along the way choices will have to be made that means a small percentage of animals may come off worse for it. But that percentage is much lower than the percentages for suffering animals that are on this earth suffering because no one nuetured their predecessors in a timely manor, if at all.

I wish there was an answer out there that meant no animal had to suffer ever again, the same with children ... heck anyone and any living thing for that matter!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> I can see the "logic" behind it, but it doesn't seem right does it?
> 
> Maybe one day it will be the "norm" who knows, it would certainly stop early pregnancies. But then if people can't organise themselves to spay at say 5 months, I doubt they will manage it any earlier ...


I would just be afriad they would be too weak at such a young age to cope with an operation but like u say there is logic there.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> I can't imagine her PMing anyone without the other person messaging abuse to her first..


Yes....I have read my last post back to myself, but it was partly in response to your statement above and I was able to provide information rather than going on hearsay.
Yes, I spoke up on open forum but I would hope that I was not openly rude and deliberately abusive...did I swear and call people abusive names? 
Aurelia....I would have less respect for you if you *did not* defend and support a friend, but in my personal experience it is often the act of a friend, rather than an enemy, to step in and warn me if I have gone a ' bit too far' .


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> This is one of the things I struggle to get my head around. But one thing that comes to mind over and over when I think about it ...
> 
> What is it preventing?
> 
> ...


Very true Aureilla!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Paddypaws said:


> Yes....I have read my last post back to myself, but it was partly in response to your statement above and I was able to provide information rather than going on hearsay.
> Yes, I spoke up on open forum but I would hope that I was not openly rude and deliberately abusive...did I swear and call people abusive names?
> Aurelia....I would have less respect for you if you *did not* defend and support a friend, but in my personal experience it is often the act of a friend, rather than an enemy, to step in and warn me if I have gone a ' bit too far' .


Wise words


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Young kittens would be quickly re-homed
> 
> A rescue centre will vet check, microchip and vaccinate before placing in a home checked environment and follow up to ensure kitten is spayed, many will pay for this as it is included in donation
> 
> Will you do all this? If not, please do contact local rescues and ask if they can help at a later date :thumbup: Seriously it will be in the kittens best interests


ok i will definately consider this


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Biawhiska said:


> Hey Roxy's Mum
> 
> *DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH YOUR KITTENS*
> :thumbup:


thank you i will:thumbup:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Congratulations on your kitties... They are absolutely stunning.. and I love kittens paws they feel like little blackberry's.. 

And seriously what does it have to do with any one else who they are re-homed to.. As long as the OP is satisfied it is of no concern of yours.. she hasn't come on here saying she needs to find them homes please help....


Re Rescues.. if she can find them homes privately why shouldn't she make the effort rather than inundating a rescue with more kittens and feeding bills.... 

Also not all rescues keep an eye on there Kitties... I have known of rescue kitties having litters..

When I had my two cats when they were kittens I got them from rescue and not once did they ring and check how they were?


Lovely pictures OP.. and the reason we coo over pictures and puppies and dont have ago at the op about what she should have done.. 

Its called having a bit of respect.. its ok to explain but seriously ranting at people just sends them off and then you lot that are so concerned will never have any idea what has happened, like what has happened on here so many times before due to the manners of others..


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Pardalis said:


> Those kittens are lovely!
> 
> I have my own stat to offer. 1 male bog standard black moggy. Often grumpy and eccentric has been in his forever home for 7 years now.
> 
> 2 female kitten moggies have been here for 4 weeks. Whilst they are cute and funny as kittens I am really looking forward to them growing up and seeing how they turn out as adults. For me it's exciting to be part of what could be a 15-20 year relationship if I'm lucky.


Me too 1 moggy died in 07 at 15 had a heart attack, her buddy is 17 this year and my other 2 moggies are 3 this year, have never owned anything other than a moggy. Probably never will just my own preference have friends with Ragdolls, Persians and Siamese


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

siberiankiss said:


> She called somebody a '******* dimwit' yesterday. That is inappropriate behaviour on a family forum. I've seen some disgusting behaviour from her on here. Good, sound advice - no qualms there; but from what I've seen she is a nasty, intimidating individual and the ban was deserved.


I wasn't going to come on here but I will say this

I agree with what others have said Tje has provided myself with some new knowledge on cat welfair and I learnt a lot when I first joined here.

But, when you take things to a personal level because she did not agree with an OP or when others did not agree with her she lashed out.

I myself took alot of it and after her outburst on a public forum then she carried out her non friendly ways to PMing people that line was crossed.

I knew 4 new members since the start of the year who came on for help get back lash from her for just asking a simple question. Yes I agree PF is a open forum but when that crosses over to a personal attack the line has been crossed. I myself crossed that line with a member on here she did not like the tone of my posts so instead of keeping it on a forum I went to a pm and spoke to said person. I did say sorry for my ways and I know said person still is hurt with what was said and I was out of order for saying but I did say sorry

Tje never said sorry to anyone which I believe if she did ( well I know I would of done) moved away and brushed myself off and got on

that's the difference with some people.

And yes for the record I was one of MANY that complained over her vile posts and PMs.

A simple hey let's agree to disagree from her and I would never of complained to admin.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Way off topic


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