# Kittens possibly underweight?



## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

We collected our male and female kittens yesterday. I weighed them this morning and they both weigh approximately 890g at almost 14 weeks of age.

According to the kitten weight chart, Dinah should be at least 1.1kg by now and Monty should be at least 1.5kg. 

They were from a large litter of 7 kittens - could the large litter size delay their early growth? On both vet visits the breeder's vet has been happy with them. We are taking them to our vet on Monday evening.

Both are eating, but they're not eating as much as I expected. The breeder said they were on one Felix pouch each, per day, and had a 24/7 supply of dry food down (they haven't touched the dry since we got home though, only the wet).

Both kittens seem healthy, playful, in good condition, and so on... do you think I need to worry? They do feel "skinny" - as in I can feel their ribs and the bumps along the spine - but that may be normal (I don't know). I can't see their ribs or spine bumps though.

I didn't know the worry would begin after only 24 hours.


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## Ali82 (Mar 19, 2011)

Other people will be better placed than me to comment on their weight and development but if they are only eating the wet food then put it down for them every few hours and let them eat as much as they will. Don't restrict them to 1 pouch a day just because that's what the breeder said they'd eat.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

We're not restricting what we put down - they're not finishing any of their (wet) meals.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Sorry not sure about weights  Tango was 2kg at 13 weeks but he's an MC he was on the RC kitten food & whatever the pensioners were haveing & could, still does eat for england :lol:


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

presley is eating three pouches and dry is down all day for grazing i can feel he is getting bigger by the day im going to weigh him later because i dont actually know what he weighs. your kittens are beautiful by the way :001_wub:


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

A general guide to kittens weight is 100gms per week in age.So roughly 13 weeks = 1.3kg,so on that basis I would agree that they are significantly underweight.Not sure how siberian kittens compare with Ragdolls but my raggie at 12 weeks was 1.3 kgs.(just checked his vacc record)Kittens should be eating a lot more than your 2 are eating,but it is very difficult to make them eat if they are not hungry.Their appetite may increase once they are settled.What food are they on at the mo,not that you can change it just yet anyway.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Siberians are hefty cats, similar in size (when fully grown) to Maine Coons and Ragdolls I believe, but not sure what the kitten weights should be like. I would expect them to be heavier by now. Looking forward to seeing what the vet things of their size and weight. They don't feel emaciated or anything - perhaps they are just small for their age and weigh in proportion to their body size?

They're currently on Felix Kitten pouches and Purina Pro Plan dry food. I put out one pouch between them at about 8.00am and they ate roughly two thirds of it. How long should I be leaving out wet food before clearing it away, if they don't finish it?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Hmm, they are more than just a little light. Could be that them not eating a lot at the moment is because they are still feeling skittish in their new environment. However, Felix does an awful lot of different foods. So, could it be that you aren't offering the type of Felix they are used to?

Personally though it looks as though they had an appetite/feeding problem before they came to you as they are more than just a little underweight for their age. 

Can you phone up the breeder and ask them what exactly they were fed? Could you try heating up what you have very briefly in the microwave (heat tends to bring out the smell and may make it more appetising)?


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## Ali82 (Mar 19, 2011)

As long as it isn't really warm then in my experience wet food is fine left out for 3-4 hours possibly more. Many cats like to graze rather than eat it up in one sitting.

Assuming you visited them at the breeders, were all the kittens a similar size?


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

The breeder gave us the pouches we're using so it's definitely the right kind of food. I was a little concerned when she said they have one pouch each per day as that doesn't seem like very much, but I can see now that they don't actually eat that much. She did explain exactly what they eat and gave us various pouches and things, as well as instructions as to feeding times, so it's a bit confusing really...

I will try warming their next meal slightly in the microwave - how long should I do it for? (I don't particularly want to test it myself. )


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Bonnie82 said:


> The breeder gave us the pouches we're using so it's definitely the right kind of food. I was a little concerned when she said they have one pouch each per day as that doesn't seem like very much, but I can see now that they don't actually eat that much. She did explain exactly what they eat and gave us various pouches and things, as well as instructions as to feeding times, so it's a bit confusing really...
> 
> I will try warming their next meal slightly in the microwave - how long should I do it for? (I don't particularly want to test it myself. )


Just for a few seconds - it is just to get the smell going 

Also, how often are you feeding them?


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Yes Ali, all of the kittens were a similar size.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Also, how often are you feeding them?


Our schedule was a bit messed up yesterday but the plan is to feed them three times a day at the moment. I put out one pouch at 8am but the trouble is, on a normal work day, we leave at 7.30am and get home at 5.00pm so I'm not sure what the best times are to feed them to get them into a routine which works at weekends and on week days.

We could feed at 7.30am, 5.00pm and then 11.00pm but would that work? It means they will have a 9.5-hour gap between meals and then only a 6-hour gap before their next meal. Hmmm...

Monty seemed interested in my lunch.  I felt guilty eating when they didn't have any fresh food out - but then on weekdays they won't be eating at this time...


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

one pouch really doesnt seem enough to me :nonod: if warming it doesnt work i would try them with somthing else to tempt them


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

as long as they have some dry out to nibble on during the long gap between meals that should be fine.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Marley boy said:


> as long as they have some dry out to nibble on during the long gap between meals that should be fine.


Yes but they aren't eating it  Well, not yet!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Bonnie82 said:


> Our schedule was a bit messed up yesterday but the plan is to feed them three times a day at the moment. I put out one pouch at 8am but the trouble is, on a normal work day, we leave at 7.30am and get home at 5.00pm so I'm not sure what the best times are to feed them to get them into a routine which works at weekends and on week days.
> 
> We could feed at 7.30am, 5.00pm and then 11.00pm but would that work? It means they will have a 9.5-hour gap between meals and then only a 6-hour gap before their next meal. Hmmm...
> 
> Monty seemed interested in my lunch.  I felt guilty eating when they didn't have any fresh food out - but then on weekdays they won't be eating at this time...


Ok, i would feed them a lot more often at the minute while you are at home to stimulate their appetites. So my advice would be to feed them little - say half a pouch each - but often - say up to 5 times if they will eat that much between now and the end of the weekend.

You could try to add some dry food in with their pouches to get back their taste for them (if they ever ate them to begin with - I guess with 7 litter mates you don't know who eats what)

When you are back at work, and if they aren't eating any dry food by then either, feed them first thing when you get up, then again when you go out, then you could leave a plate of wet food out for them, then feed them when you get home, then again at around 8 and then again when you go to bed. I know, a bit arduous but it is only while they are still little.

You could either get an automatic feeder (but you would have to train them to use it) or you could try to get a few cooling elements, pop them in the freezer and then before you go, take two out of the freezer, pop the food on a ceramic plate and place the plate on the cooling element. That should keep the food cool for quite a while. Just a thought.


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

good point but at least its there if they are desperate. I dont know what else to suggest other than maybe they dont like the food


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

Bonnie82 said:


> We collected our male and female kittens yesterday. I weighed them this morning and they both weigh approximately 890g at almost 14 weeks of age.
> 
> According to the kitten weight chart, Dinah should be at least 1.1kg by now and Monty should be at least 1.5kg.
> 
> ...


Ok first of all you should NOT be able to feel all the bobbles of their spines! This is actually quite a clear indication that they are definately underweight!
Secondly at almost 14 weeks and being Sibs they should definately be over 1kg even for a runt of a large litter!

Im quite suprised that a pedigree breeder is weaning their kittens onto felix as its not exactly great for nutrition and saying that they only need feeding 3 times a day as they should be fed more like 5-6 times a day until about 6 months old when their stomachs are big enough to consume a portion big enough to last them longer.

On a more positive note though they are gorgeous  And if you get their appetites up they should catch up to the right weight fairly quickly x


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Thank you everyone. This place is invaluable for advice. 

I've just put out some slightly warmed food (half a pouch each). Dinah had a nibble for about 20 seconds and Monty had a bit but not very much.

I tried offering some of their usual dry food by hand (as they weren't touching it in the bowl). They sniffed it, turned their noses up and ran away. So I think putting it on their wet food would probably stop them eating the wet too.

I've got a cupboard full of good food and it's frustrating not being able to feed them any of it yet.  I want to get them fattened up!

I wonder if they're only eating a little bit as they've been used to sharing one pouch between five at a time, from the same bowl?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Bonnie82 said:


> Thank you everyone. This place is invaluable for advice.
> 
> I've just put out some slightly warmed food (half a pouch each). Dinah had a nibble for about 20 seconds and Monty had a bit but not very much.
> 
> ...


If you are set on getting them to eat dry food, have you tried chucking a few pieces across the floor to see whether their hunting and munching instinct kicks in?

Don't forget though that their stomachs are really tiny too at the moment and cannot hold a lot of food (hence the rounded stomach one so often sees in kittens that have just eaten when they look a little bit like the snake that's eaten the elephant in "Le Petit Prince".). Hence the need to feed them as often as possible.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Bonnie82 said:


> Our schedule was a bit messed up yesterday but the plan is to feed them three times a day at the moment. I put out one pouch at 8am but the trouble is, on a normal work day, *we leave at 7.30am and get home at 5.00pm so I'm not sure what the best times are to feed them to get them into a routine which works at weekends and on week days*.
> 
> We could feed at 7.30am, 5.00pm and then 11.00pm but would that work? It means they will have a 9.5-hour gap between meals and then only a 6-hour gap before their next meal. Hmmm...
> 
> Monty seemed interested in my lunch.  I felt guilty eating when they didn't have any fresh food out - but then on weekdays they won't be eating at this time...


Just to re-assure you about working hours, I do pretty much the same hours as you ..... Molly's routine during the week is as follows:-

6.30am ..... 1 pouch of wet food
6.00pm ......another pouch
then before we go to bed, anytime between 10 and 11pm another pouch. She also has dry food down all day.

I did try the automatic feeder so she could get a feed at lunchtime but I have a sneeky suspicion that she managed to open it well before the timer went off (found it upside down on the living floor!!) 

At the weekend, I give her a lunchtime feed and a later tea time.

She doesnt seem to have any problem with this routine


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

They do seem a bit light, even though I know kittens vary in weight. You should monitor it over the course of the week and see if it is going up. Like you said, they could juts have started life as lighter kittens. Your own vet should be able to reassure you on Monday. 

I feed our kittens a 70/30 dry/wet food diet. They get 50g Grau in the mornings between 6-7.30am, and then a pouch of Felix 'As Good as it Gets' at around 18.00-18.30. Some days they eat all the wet food up in one go, and other days they eat it over the course of an hour. After 2 hours I take it away if it starts to look dry, but usually it is eaten before then. [Note: I will be stopping Felix as soon as this current supply runs out, as I don't think it is as nutritious as other Hobbs has listed, that are available very readily)

They have measured dry food out all day; Hills Science Plan Chicken and Orijen Fish, so they can eat this as much as they like over the course of the day when we are out. I am currently finding that in the mornings there is just a little bit of dry food left, so the guidelines for the food appear to be correct. 

I am still monitoring their weight and they are still putting on approx 100g a week, although this slowed over the past week. They are both slender. I can feel their ribs if I run my hands over their body firmly but not see them. I think this is the way cats should be.


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

Hmm, it does seem light, Arnold was 1.5kg when he came home and Somali's aren't big cats.

I did notice that his eating patterns were different from what his breeder said though, he was on Whiskers kitten food at hers and he ate 3 pouches a day apparently but he barely finished 2 a day here. I tried to gradually change his food about a week ish after he was home (he seemed very settled) but he had other ideas and refused to eat the whiskers and that seems to have made the difference.

I have an automatic feeder for when im at work, I leave it where his food bowl normally is and he eats out of it fine.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

I've started a weight chart for them. Just weighed them accurately now to record their weights - Monty is 0.89kg and Dinah is 0.81kg.

I noticed that they would nibble on the wet food for a few seconds, then walk away. But every time I put one of them down after cuddling them, I put them near their food and they eat a bit. So they are eating, but seem to only eat when placed next to the food?!!

I gave Monty a couple of pieces of Orijen as a treat and he wolfed them down. They won't touch their usual dry food. I don't want to start putting Orijen down instead of their usual dry food until they're settled, and ultimately I want to get them off dry food anyway, so not sure about that. (I had bought a large bag of Orijen before I realised wet food is better. )

Thank you all so much for the various opinions, advice and reassurance. I will admit I am worried about them after weighing them, and am keen to get them in for their check-up on Monday.  Though I'm sure I'll have the usual vet talk about trying them on Royal Canin dry food.


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

Bonnie82 said:


> I've started a weight chart for them. Just weighed them accurately now to record their weights - Monty is 0.89kg and Dinah is 0.81kg.
> 
> I noticed that they would nibble on the wet food for a few seconds, then walk away. But every time I put one of them down after cuddling them, I put them near their food and they eat a bit. So they are eating, but seem to only eat when placed next to the food?!!
> 
> ...


Haha, of course you will, I think it was the second thing they asked me. Arnold had a gunky eye a few weeks back and the vet commented on how healthy he looked and asked if he was on Royal Canin, I just smiled and nodded, he'd probably lecture me if he knew i fed foreign food as well as raw! 

I wouldnt panic just yet, just concentrate on getting them settled. Have you tried moving their food somewhere else? Maybe its a bit busy/noisy for them or they just dont like where touve put it?


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I think kittens can be 'social eaters' in the way that you describe, they like you to be with them and pet them or talk to them while they nibble ( be careful of the habits you instill!! ) Also, at this age there is SO much else that is exciting to see and sniff and do, that they seem to forget to focus on the food. So just keep offering small amounts of food, little and often, and I am sure they will catch on soon and be eating you out of house and home in no time.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Ha, isn't RC "foreign" too - i.e. French? :001_tongue:


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Ha, isn't RC "foreign" too - i.e. French? :001_tongue:


Dont be silly, tis a fine British food for your cat 

He's actually thinks I'm crazy because I get a discount on RC food and pretty much most brands you can find in a supermarket and I dont use it lol


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## Sadie SU (May 15, 2011)

Maybe you need to go back a step, and mash their meat ration into more of a liquid puree that they can lap up? It could be the effort of chewing their food that's making it all seem like just too much hard work. Personally, I'd add a tablespoon or so of boiled water to their pouch ration, or you could stew some chicken and mush it all into a sort of thick soup...... Then if that gets their enthusiasm up, you can gradually thicken the mix until it's back to a more normal consistency.


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## louiserp1 (Jul 14, 2010)

I'd also be tempted to mash it a fair bit, and wipe some on their front paws to get them licking it off.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

This evening we had chicken for dinner, and boiled a small separate piece to break up into little chunks for the kittens, then played a really fun game with the laser, which they love chasing.

I hid a small piece of cooked chicken in various places in the room, then led them to each piece with the laser. They seemed to really enjoy that as an extra-special treat and Dinah took her pieces behind the sofa, growling at them as if they were prey, bless her. 

We've fed them four times today and will feed them again before bed. They do seem to graze on their food rather than wolfing it down all at once and I have seen them both go back to the food bowls a few times since I put out the third pouch. We may be making progress... we shall see!

They don't seem to have a problem with the texture of the food. They just always seem to have something better to do than to eat! They did seem more interested in the wet food when they had seen me prepare it - they followed me to the cupboard and watched as I got it ready for them - and it did seem to make it more appetising for them after zapping it in the microwave for a few seconds. 

Considering how little they seem to be eating, I can't believe how much energy they have!


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Well we seem to be doing a bit better today.  I put out one pouch at 7.45am which they shared between them and ate most of, then another at 10am which was mostly eaten. I have just put another out now. Both kittens seem to be eating more today.

They're still not finishing a pouch at a time, possibly because they're used to grazing and it's gone a bit dry once it's been out for a while. I may start putting down smaller meals of half a pouch between them for the time being as I don't like wasting food.

I'll be weighing them every day at roughly the same time to see how much weight they put on in a week!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Great news Bonnie! Keep up the good work.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Hope they do better. Just wanted to add to what was said about the timed feeder. I use a timed feeder with mine one day a week as thats the day I'm late from work. It took us a couple of gos to get them used to it. They thought it was an alien at first lol. 

I love it though as if I'm stuck in traffic I'm worried about them and their dinner. I bought a thin icepack and use it under the feeder to keep the food cool. 

It's also great on a weekend to set it and then you can have a lie in every now and then. I wouldn't use it for an overnight or anything like that (mine is just for one feed anyway but I know you can get 4 day ones) in case it didn't open but if it's just for a few hours because they eat little and often and you are at work it's worth a try.


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## honeysmummy (Oct 17, 2010)

Really pleased to hear that...i have been following your thread.

It sounds like they are starting to settle in and therefore eating more 

My 2 are more grazers when it comes to food...keep up the good work

Kelly xx


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

they are gorgeous babies, I thought in the pics they looked quite small, if you compare them to my ragdolls, my kittens are about 1kg at 8-9weeks of age, so already 200grams Over your kittens weights at 5-6weeks younger.

Im quite surprised that the breeder let them go under 1kg of weight, I would be quite worried and would hold them back until they have gained this weight, I know they are from a big litter but once they start eating they catch up to average weights pretty quickly, for example Im hand rearing a litter and they are now 6weeks old, only in the past 4days 3 of them are now 'average' 6week old kitten weights, with the other 2 quickily following! Infact one of them is 700grams, and thats me feeding them along with them now eating little bits, so nearly your kittens weightsm who are double their age!

I remember you saying that mum was not with them at 5weeks of age? Was the breeder topping them up with any sort of hand rearing milk as she should have been doing this 3-4times a day plus their food.

chicken breast (I do cooked) is good for gaining weight, but you dont want them to gain to quick as that can be just as bad, do you have any kitten milk? you can give them some of that and buy in some cimi-cat, follow the instructions as add some of that to it for extra kitten vitamins in the kitten milk or just use the water mix.

Im glad that they are eating a little more, I know that one of my kittens who is a ragdoll that left 2weeks ago is now 2kg at 14weeks, and one at 5 months is 2.6, and he was 1.8 when he left! 

I hope that they catch up soon


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Well I weighed the kittens yesterday and in about 36 hours (as was unable to weigh them at the same time yesterday) Dinah had gone from 880g to 906g, and Monty had gone from 890g to 960g. I don't know if this weight gain is too much, or about right, in 1-2 days?

They only seem to eat when they're hungry and don't wolf down entire bowls of food so I'm guessing they are not overeating?

Yes their mum was with them at 5 weeks of age, and I remember some of them were suckling her but others were eating the wet food. We next visited when they were 8 weeks old and mum wasn't with them. So yes they were weaned early and I had a conversation with the breeder and the chairman of the Siberian Cat Club about this.

The breeder did try to give them kitten milk but none of them liked it. She tried different brands and everyone turned their noses up at it.

They are seeing the vet tomorrow and I expect he/she (never met the vet there before!) will say they're underweight, and if so I will ask the breeder what her vet said.

I'm constantly worrying about them!


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Im sure they will be huge soon, sometimes the vaccinactions can have an effect on them, so give them a couple of weeks & they will be eating you out of house & home


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

I hope so. I am feeling quite worried about them still as they are not eating as much as I would like. But we're at the vet's this evening so hopefully they will be able to say something to reassure us, or give us some advice.

I've also noticed Dinah has a gunky eye which I'm worrying about now too.

We've left them alone for the first time to come to work and I'm fretting already! :blush:


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Bonnie82 said:


> I hope so. I am feeling quite worried about them still as they are not eating as much as I would like. But we're at the vet's this evening so hopefully they will be able to say something to reassure us, or give us some advice.
> 
> I've also noticed Dinah has a gunky eye which I'm worrying about now too.
> 
> We've left them alone for the first time to come to work and I'm fretting already! :blush:


oh no  could be anything though, (the eye) so dont worry until the vet says (hard not to I know!)

do you know how much they are eating? remember that they are weights of 8-9week old kittens so will be eating the amount of one, not the amount of a 14week old.

did you try chicken breast?


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

How much would you expect an 8- or 9-week old kitten to eat? 

They are probably actually consuming about 150g of wet food each per day... if that. I've put out more than that and am now at the stage where I'm getting tired of throwing food away! 

Tried giving them more frequent meals but yesterday I put out half a pouch each at 8am, which they ate slowly over the course of a couple of hours. I still threw some away though. Then put out another half a pouch each for "lunch" at 1pm when we had ours, but they didn't eat anything - barely even sniffed it. I put out half a pouch each for their "tea" at around 6pm and they ate that. Then I left out more food at bedtime - another half a pouch each - and that was gone by the morning. This morning they didn't seem interested in their breakfast. It seems a bit hit and miss.

Yep we have tried boiled chicken and they do seem to like that. How much should we feed of that and how often? I'll try anything to get them bulked up and interested in food again. But can they have too much of a good thing? If we feed them chicken too often will they go off balanced cat food?


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

I know it's hard, but try not to worry too much, at least they are eating something.

If it was a higher quality food 150g each doesn't actually sound that bad to me given their weight. See what the vet says but I'd be inclined to introduce some of the better food you have in a few days (as long as they are settled and not having runny poos from the move).

Does it make any difference what flavour you put out?

Re: gunky eye, there are lots of causes of this but my vet said it is relatively common with kittens, Arnold had some drops for a week which sorted him out (well, until he was racing around and knocked it and irritated it again )


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

It would be lovely to get Dinah's eye sorted as she's sort of half-closing it, which is a shame, as she has such lovely bright eyes and they look sort of "glossy" and sad at the moment. I thought it was stress from the move but I've cleaned them with a dry cotton pad and the gunk is grey/green in colour which I know signifies some sort of infection. Monty's eyes in comparison are really bright and clear.

I thought the flavour made a difference as they seemed keen on the fish-flavoured Felix and not so keen on the poultry-flavoured ones, but then I put out a fish one yesterday and they ignored it! They have been doing nice solid poos  and I haven't seen the sign of anything runny. I can't wait to try them with something else but not sure what to try first, or how soon to introduce a new food. I thought it was meant to be at least a week or two.


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## Sephie (Jun 2, 2011)

Oh Bonnie, I'm sorry I hadn't spotted this thread earlier!

When we brought Keiko and Ciara home last Saturday, they were barely 1kg (Ciara) and 1.1kg (Keiko) and they were extremely small. Both were 13 weeks and 2 days. Then I fed them raw (3 times a day in small portions of 15g) and Hills/Orijen mix dry food and that's left out all day and night.

Then I weighed Keiko and Ciara again a week after they got home (which was 2 days ago) and Keiko was 1.3kg and Ciara was 1.2kg! So they are much much better and look less tiny as well! This was because the breeder whom where we got Keiko and Ciara did not believe in feeding any wet and only fed gourmet tins once in a while and free fed them hills.

Columbus whom we picked up on Saturday afternoon is 12 weeks and 5 days and he weighs 1.75kg! But he is healthy and huge and doesn't have a pot belly. He was fed on a diet of raw, fish and Hills. Also we were told males are much larger than females. 

All 3 kittens had to pass the vet's check before coming home with us and according to the breeder of Keiko and Ciara, this was the mother's first litter and she had 5 and produced not a lot of milk hence the combination of that and the little bit of wet they had was the reason they were a bit smaller than expected.

Keiko and Ciara also had the gunky eye thing before they came back and it's all cleared up now, but it's apparently quite common in kittens. 

Good luck with everything, Bonnie!  You can feel free to message me if you have any other questions!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Sephie said:


> All 3 kittens had to pass the vet's check before coming home with us and according to the breeder of Keiko and Ciara, this was the mother's first litter and she had 5 and produced not a lot of milk hence the combination of that and the little bit of wet they had was the reason they were a bit smaller than expected.
> !


just wanted to say that this isnt true, once they start eating they gain the weight they should pretty quickly, Im hand feeding milk & wet food (mum has no milk) and 3 of them are now average kitten weights for their age, the other 2 are off, but still gaining. IVE had litters of 8, go home at 1.4kg at 13weeks of age! if mum idnt have enough milk she should have been topping them up s othey were gaining thr right amounts of weight, so no need to be underweight.
they should have been kept back until the breeder was happy though and a good weight 

150grams, isnt alot, thats 1 & half pouches, do you feed dry to? as they like to come and go to food can you leave the wet down for longer incase they want to graze? how are their poops etc?


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## Sephie (Jun 2, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> just wanted to say that this isnt true, once they start eating they gain the weight they should pretty quickly, Im hand feeding milk & wet food (mum has no milk) and 3 of them are now average kitten weights for their age, the other 2 are off, but still gaining. IVE had litters of 8, go home at 1.4kg at 13weeks of age! if mum idnt have enough milk she should have been topping them up s othey were gaining thr right amounts of weight, so no need to be underweight.
> they should have been kept back until the breeder was happy though and a good weight
> 
> 150grams, isnt alot, thats 1 & half pouches, do you feed dry to? as they like to come and go to food can you leave the wet down for longer incase they want to graze? how are their poops etc?


Perhaps I worded it a little wrongly.. The vet has passed them off that they are good weights to go home with us when they had their 2nd vaccinations. They are just smaller kittens, resulting from a smaller mother as well. Our breeders would have kept them an extra week or two had they thought they were too underweight to come home. But I also suspect that because all the kittens and mothers were sharing dry food from one silo and the breeders not giving them extra food on the side may be the reason they are smaller. The kittens they had from another litter (another mother) were a lot larger even though they had the same diet. They are both playing very well and are super active!

But we're making sure they are getting a good selection of dry and raw and that's boosting their weights up very well at the moment!


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Sephie said:


> When we brought Keiko and Ciara home last Saturday, they were barely 1kg (Ciara) and 1.1kg (Keiko) and they were extremely small. Both were 13 weeks and 2 days. Then I fed them raw (3 times a day in small portions of 15g) and Hills/Orijen mix dry food and that's left out all day and night.
> 
> Then I weighed Keiko and Ciara again a week after they got home (which was 2 days ago) and Keiko was 1.3kg and Ciara was 1.2kg! So they are much much better and look less tiny as well! This was because the breeder whom where we got Keiko and Ciara did not believe in feeding any wet and only fed gourmet tins once in a while and free fed them hills.


That's great that they gained weight fairly quickly. Did you change their diet fairly quickly and without any problems? I've been reading about changing food and it says to wait a week or two after the kittens are home before making any changes, but if ours aren't eating very much I'd be keen to switch them to something else a bit sooner than that. Ours were apparently on Purina Pro Plan dry food but they just won't touch it!



Taylorbaby said:


> 150grams, isnt alot, thats 1 & half pouches, do you feed dry to? as they like to come and go to food can you leave the wet down for longer incase they want to graze? how are their poops etc?


Yes that's right, I put down half a pouch per kitten per mealtime and gave 4 meals yesterday but they only ate three of the meals and left their lunchtime one untouched. I'm throwing away food from each meal so no point in putting down more than half a pouch at a time as it's just wasteful!

I've left the wet food down until the next mealtime, e.g. put out wet food at 6pm, then remove it at 11pm and replace with new wet food. So I'm not taking it away before they've finished.

Yes they have dry food down all the time at the moment as this is what they were used to. They don't touch it though. I haven't once seen them eating the dry food!

Oh and their poos seem absolutely fine and normal. Small but perfectly formed!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Can you weigh the dry food you put down during the day. Then you can weigh it again at the end of the day to see whether they have touched it at all. 

Have you considered moving them on to one of the foods that you have got in the cupboard? Start slowly by mixing 80 old / 20 new, then gradually over a few days decrease the amount of old food and increase the amount of new food. 

Are you still heating up the food a little before putting it down? 

TB never answered your question about the chicken breast. There is no harm feeding plain boiled chicken for a few days or so and it is often used when kittens/cats have got a dodgy tum. Anything longer and you will have to worry about it being more balanced to provide all the nutrients cats need. 

You could feed plain boiled chicken for about 20% of their weekly meals without having to worry about it being balanced.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Yep we are still heating it slightly.  Do you think we'd be okay to try mixing in a little of another brand of food already? The kittens have been with us for 4 days now. Is that too soon?

We have a wide variety of food in the cupboards for them to try... which would you suggest mixing in with the Felix first of all?

We have the choice of:

Bozita
Animonda Carny
Smilla
Grau
Darling's (raw)

Plus those few tins of the super-quality German stuff which you know about already. 

Good idea about weighing the dry food out and then re-weighing. I will try that tonight.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Keep the few tins for later just in case they like the food so much they won't then touch anything else. :001_tongue:

I personally would try the Grau. Start slowly. 

However, if you are keen to feed them raw food, then I would also introduce the Darlings. Eventually you can aim for a 50/50 (wet food and raw food split in a day) or however much raw you want to feed.

The speed of new food introduction really depends on the cat. When we got Lila we moved her on to raw food within a couple of days of her arriving (if memory serves me right).


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## Sephie (Jun 2, 2011)

Bonnie82 said:


> That's great that they gained weight fairly quickly. Did you change their diet fairly quickly and without any problems? I've been reading about changing food and it says to wait a week or two after the kittens are home before making any changes, but if ours aren't eating very much I'd be keen to switch them to something else a bit sooner than that. Ours were apparently on Purina Pro Plan dry food but they just won't touch it!


Well sort of yes.. At first I gave them a bit of gourmet gold as the breeder gave them that, but they weren't interested, so I tried Bozita and they didn't really like that as well... but then I started to introduce like 5-10g of raw and they slowly ate that... and every day I am giving them more and more of the raw and now they are eating about 50g of raw each (spread over 3 small servings) and they graze at the dry food too. But their dry food consumption has reduced from about 60g between the two to about 40g between the 2. I don't limit their dry, but I do measure each time I refill their bowls so I have a rough idea of how much they eat and make sure their bowls are never empty if I'm at work or overnight when we sleep.

The dry food, I'm feeding them Hills/Royal Canin mix (3:1 ratio) as the breeders were feeding them that. And as they got used to it (about 4 days ago I started to introduce Orijen). So now it's a bit of a 50/50 mix of Hills and Orijen.

I'm really lucky they are able to adapt to different foods, and I have been able to change their food... I waited 3 days before I introduced raw and very little at a time as their tummies cannot handle too much food at a time.

I am also careful to see if they have a bad reaction or not and they have been pooping and peeing normally and their fur has become incredibly soft now and hardly any knots!


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Thanks... hmm someone may be getting a little bit of Grau mixed into their dinner tonight.  I hope they like it. I am glad they are eating, even if it's not that much.

We would like to feed some raw ultimately as a regular thing, but not sure we could do ALL raw... possibly a 50/50 mix of wet and raw.

We got the Darling's taster pack for cats (the £15 one) to see what they like.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Sephie said:


> Well sort of yes.. At first I gave them a bit of gourmet gold as the breeder gave them that, but they weren't interested, so I tried Bozita and they didn't really like that as well... but then I started to introduce like 5-10g of raw and they slowly ate that... and every day I am giving them more and more of the raw and now they are eating about 50g of raw each (spread over 3 small servings) and they graze at the dry food too. But their dry food consumption has reduced from about 60g between the two to about 40g between the 2. I don't limit their dry, but I do measure each time I refill their bowls so I have a rough idea of how much they eat and make sure their bowls are never empty if I'm at work or overnight when we sleep.
> 
> The dry food, I'm feeding them Hills/Royal Canin mix (3:1 ratio) as the breeders were feeding them that. And as they got used to it (about 4 days ago I started to introduce Orijen). So now it's a bit of a 50/50 mix of Hills and Orijen.
> 
> ...


That's brilliant news - well done!  I really hope we can get our two eating raw food or at least a better quality wet food than Felix. I think the chunks in Felix look soooo revolting. :blink:


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## Sephie (Jun 2, 2011)

Bonnie82 said:


> That's brilliant news - well done!  I really hope we can get our two eating raw food or at least a better quality wet food than Felix. I think the chunks in Felix look soooo revolting. :blink:


Haha, thank you! I was totally expecting it to take them ages to switch to raw, so now we have 15 packs of Bozita in the cupboard and 3 tins of gourmet gold... But it's alright! I'm just happy they have chosen the option we prefer earlier! 

I agree, the chunks in many lower quality wet food don't look too appetizing or smell too nice...

Columbus on the other hand was already fed raw and good kibble so for him it was a matter of coaxing him to eat after settling in with us and now he's been eating loads! 

Good luck with the switch for your lovely two!


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## jeanierec (Apr 18, 2011)

I've been reading your posts about Dinah and Monty with real interest from before you even brought them home.......they are delightful by the way !
I didn't realise what a minefield these first few days could be but at least when we fetch our two ? home I'll have a better idea.
I know I sound really ignorant ( probably because I am ) but I've never heard of "raw" and should all kitties have it. My kittens to be are on 4 pouches of food( a variety of brands ) and goats milk before breakfast something else I'd never heard of. Sorry for hijacking your thread Bonnie but feel so out of my depth despite being a catmother for the last 26 years just not to kittens.
Let us know how you get on at the vets hopefully he/she will set your mind at rest.
Isn't this forum fab for advice , reassurance etc.
Jeanie x


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Wellllllll...

I mixed about 15g of Grau in with 50g of Felix this evening (so 65g food per kitten) and both of them spent a LOT longer at their food bowls than usual.  They still didn't eat it all but they certainly ate for a lot longer than they usually do. I mixed the turkey Grau in with some chicken Felix. They don't normally like the chicken Felix that much so I see this as a success. 

I have to say I'm really impressed with the general look, smell and consistency of the Grau compared to the Felix.  It looks like REAL FOOD! 

Then we took them for their veterinary check-up. The vet weighed them and they are both 0.9kg. She didn't seem overly concerned as she said they weren't really skinny and felt okay. I am hoping that once we get them onto better food the weight will pile on!

Dinah DOES have conjunctivitis as I suspected, bless her.  She had that funny green dye put into her eye (the vet called her a "mutant cat" as her eyes turned green ) to check for damage, but there was no damage, just a lot of redness and inflammation under the lid. Her third eyelids kept sliding across. Poor baby.  So she's been given an antibiotic ointment which we have to apply twice a day. We put it on her just now and she was really brave. 

We're going back for a follow-up appointment on Saturday morning for Dinah's eyes, so if we're still concerned about their weight and eating habits by then there's another chance to get them weighed and ask for advice.

I am really proud of Monty this evening as he's learnt how to use the water fountain.  Dinah took to it like a duck to water (or should that be cat to water?) but it's taken him a few days. He loves it now he's figured it out though.


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## Sephie (Jun 2, 2011)

Am so glad that you managed to get them to the vets to have them checked out, Bonnie! But yes, with better quality food they will definitely grow!  Sorry to hear Dinah has conjunctivitis, but that'll clear up with the meds!

Am also very glad to read that you managed to get them to eat some Grau! Yay!

*jeanierec,* this post will explain all about raw feeding! In a nutshell, it's basically feeding your cats raw food, not cooked food (in tins and pouches)  You don't have to feed your kitties raw, but it's more a personal choice! I prefer to feed ours raw as it's cheaper to get here compared to high quality wet and it's very good for their growth and fur! 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/111455-thinking-about-raw-feeding-basic-guide.html


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## jeanierec (Apr 18, 2011)

Thank you Sephie i'll check it out.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Thanks Sephie and thank you everyone else for the help and advice. 

I did the 15g Grau with 50g Felix again for their meal just before bedtime and there was still a lot of it left this morning so I'm really not sure exactly how much they're eating, so starting today, I'm going to re-weigh their food at the end of the day to see how much has been eaten.

I've left them a meal of 50g Felix and 25g Grau each. Dinah had a bit before I left the house and Monty sniffed it then walked away. It's an ongoing battle!


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

What lucky kittens to have such a caring Mum, please don't worry too much, I'm sure when you are able to increase the amount of good quality food you are feeding their weight will increase, even if the do not appear to be eating a greater quantity. I would echo what others have said that at that weight they will benefit from little and often which you are doing.

From a breeder's perspective I wouldn't let a kitten leave at less than a kilo, however, I do find it hard to tell new owners how much the kittens eat. I was feeding approx 10 pouches in 5 or 6 meals to 5 kittens plus dry always available, but to say each kitten was getting 2 pouches a day would be unlikely. I'm sure you are right to put down as much as they can eat as often as possible.

Also, did your vet mention worming them? I would be tempted to worm then earlier than the breeder suggested in case they were missed or spat it out or something. Panacur paste is suitable for that weight, but I'm sure your vet will advise.

Please enjoy your kittens and try not to worry, they are eating and they will therefore grow. I held back the smallest of my litter who was always underweight compared to where he should have been and he is huge now and the picture of a healthy kitten at 19 weeks old, but he really was petite at 14 weeks.

Weigh them daily if it helps you feel better, then you don't need to watch who eats how much if you can see that they are gaining. Though my other half would have a fit as he limited me to once a week weighing at that age as he said I was feeding my obsession. 

Good luck and best wishes

Katy


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

I have heard from the breeder and she said she had the litter weighed at their last vet check-up and the vet didn't say they were underweight, and gave them all a clean bill of health. That would've been on the Saturday before we collected them so they would've been just under 13 weeks old.

They were wormed with Stronghold at the breeder's house just before we collected them. She applied it to our two kittens when we were there, just to demonstrate how to do it, so yep can confirm it was definitely done. They were wormed with Panacur paste when they were younger but she said Stronghold is okay for 12+ weeks of age - or does it depend on weight? :blink: It was prescribed by her vet specifically for that litter so I'm guessing it's okay?

I may start weighing them daily as soon as we get in from work, before their teatime feed. I think that's probably the best time as they won't have just eaten, plus we know we'll always be around at that time because we come home to feed them regardless of what we're doing in the evening. It might make me feel better to see them gaining weight and I'm looking forward to seeing them both get over 1kg.


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## Sephie (Jun 2, 2011)

Bonnie, I weigh ours every few days too! So you've got a friend who's doing the same as you! 

Once they put on weight, they'll just keep growing, don't you worry about that!  I believe that most dewormers are based on weight rather than age...


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Well I am really proud of the kittens. 

Their meal before we went to bed last night consisted of 25g Felix and 50g Grau each and when we got up this morning, their bowls were both TOTALLY CLEAN for the first time!  Nothing left at all.  I am soooooooo pleased.

So they've got the same again this morning - 25g Felix and 50g Grau each - and later on today I think we may even be safe to go to 100% Grau.  When they were on a smaller amount of Grau and a larger amount of Felix, they were only leaving the Felix chunks so don't really see much point in giving them any more now I've finished another pouch.

*Woohoo, they like Grau!* :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I'm going to be weighing them before their early evening meal every day. Last night they were about 950g (Monty) and 935g (Dinah) so we will see how we get on from now on. Still not reached that magical kilo yet but I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time. 

The only problem I have is that I only bought 6 x 200g tins of Grau so we'll be running out soon. Obviously I will do another order for more but now they're eating a food with a high meat content, is it okay to rotate between the various foods we've got? 

We have the choice of:

Lily's Kitchen
Bozita
Smilla
Animonda Carny
Darling's raw

I am now wondering what to do with all the Felix and Royal Canin pouches we have in the cupboard.


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

Aww yay! So glad they've taken to the Grau, Arnold was the same, he left the Whiskers and just ate the Grau 

I wouldn't rotate just yet, give them a couple of weeks to settle on the Grau and then maybe introduce some of the others. To be honest Grau is probably the best out of those (except the raw) so I would be inclined to have that as the staple of their diet and rotate the others so they don't get bored. Is the Animonda you've got the complete one as I thought most of theirs was complimentary so you could only feed that a few times a week anyway. 

Have you got enough Grau left for the 4 days + it can take Zoopus to deliver?


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

No we only have 900g of Grau left so maybe we will have to keep mixing it with the Felix for longer while I sort out another order, if you think they wouldn't be okay with trying one of the other foods.

I wish ZooPlus did a mixed variety pack of the 400g tins as that would be sooooooooo convenient. I might just go for the more expensive mixed variety pack of 24 x 200g tins for now to see which flavours they really like. In fact... I have just placed an order for one of those packs. 

Yes the Animonda is the complete food.


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## K337 (May 20, 2011)

Perhaps there is someone nearby that can lend you a few tins until the Zooplus order can arrive? I've got a few grain free ones but I'm in London. Then you could keep them on that for a bit and later on introduce the other brands.

Good to hear you got them onto something they obviously enjoy. Hope they are proper little pigglets with their food soon - the best moment for me was when one of my kittens (who were weaned onto supermarkets foods that they only licked the jelly off of) grunted and snuffled for air as he was so busy stuffing his face with Bozita


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

I don't know anyone local who feeds Grau unfortunately... and I've asked on here before if anyone can recommend local vets and was met by a deadly silence.  So don't think there are any local PFers either! However I have had an email saying my ZooPlus order has been dispatched so am keeping my fingers crossed that it arrives sooner than expected. 

I'm sooooooooooo proud of Monty... have just done the evening weigh-in session and he has gone over 1kg! Woooohoooo!  Dinah has put on a bit of weight too so we're heading in the right direction.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Bonnie82 said:


> I don't know anyone local who feeds Grau unfortunately... and I've asked on here before if anyone can recommend local vets and was met by a deadly silence.  So don't think there are any local PFers either! However I have had an email saying my ZooPlus order has been dispatched so am keeping my fingers crossed that it arrives sooner than expected.
> 
> I'm sooooooooooo proud of Monty... have just done the evening weigh-in session and he has gone over 1kg! Woooohoooo!  Dinah has put on a bit of weight too so we're heading in the right direction.


Where do you live? I could send you a few tins of grau!


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

In fact I have like 5 tins of 200g Tuna Grau I don't need as my cats dont like fish (well the fish doesnt like my cats tums)

And I have some 400g tines of Grau as well, in lamb, heart and liver, and poultry. The grain is going through my kittens, and a very kind person is helping me out with some other brands so I am happy to pass on the favour to you! Pop me a PM if you'd like it!


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

That would be absolutely fantastic! Ours love the tuna one. I am sure that some of the other brands I have in my cupboard will end up being passed on to other PF members too so if I am in the position to repay the favour one day I would love to... will send you a PM now.


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

Go Monty! :thumbsup:

Haven't been on much today and only just seen this again, glad GW is sorting you out with some Grau


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Its a good job I am considering zooplus can only send out one tin at a time at the mo it seems! lol


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

I thought it was too good to be true... 

They've had a 200g of the heart and liver Grau between them since yesterday evening and Monty has a runny bum.  I hadn't changed the Grau to Felix ratios drastically but I was trying to last it out until more Grau arrives, so they were having 50/50, but maybe something in that particular flavour didn't agree with him? Hard to say really as I was checking their poos when they were on the Grau chicken and also the Grau tuna and they were absolutely fine. Hmmmmmmm...

He had runny poo last night and then again this morning (before food). I had already prepared their breakfast by that point so I've left it out for them as was rushing out to work - have given them the lamb Grau mixed with lamb Felix this morning - same ratios again.

Any suggestions for what to try this evening? Would it be worth giving them something plain like boiled chicken until the runny poos stop - have seen that mentioned a few times - and if so, how soon should I start up with the Grau again?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Bonnie82 said:


> I thought it was too good to be true...
> 
> They've had a 200g of the heart and liver Grau between them since yesterday evening and Monty has a runny bum.  I hadn't changed the Grau to Felix ratios drastically but I was trying to last it out until more Grau arrives, so they were having 50/50, but maybe something in that particular flavour didn't agree with him? Hard to say really as I was checking their poos when they were on the Grau chicken and also the Grau tuna and they were absolutely fine. Hmmmmmmm...
> 
> ...


See what the situation is tonight Bonnie. It could well be that it was the heart and liver food that doesn't agree with him - if I remember right, that food doesn't contain any meat, only offal (though technically heart is a muscle meat but hey....). If you were raw feeding than we all would immediately say that he has had too much offal (i.e. liver but too much heart can also be a culprit) which often can lead to dire rear.

If he has had the lamb before without any issue and you come home to a clean litter tray, then I would be inclined to just continue doing what you are doing but cut out that particular flavour for the time being.

If he is still runny, then starve him for 12 or so hours and then feed him some plain boiled chicken for a couple of days until the runs have stopped and then you slowly re-introduce their food, mixed in with the plain boiled chicken.

Might be worth exploring pro-kolin or alternative probiotic products, for potential further incidents in the future, which are great for times when kitties have runny bums and their gut could do with a helping hand.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Thanks Hobbs.  It did seem to correspond directly to the heart and liver food, i.e. he had two meals of it and a runny bum after each of those meals. I wondered if it was a one-off so fed it again but another runny bum resulted so it seems like that food was the culprit as nothing else has changed. Dinah has been okay so far - touch wood.

Hopefully he'll be okay on the lamb but it's not a flavour we've tried before (I am working through the 6 x 200g taster pack with only one tin of each flavour)... the other flavours we have left to try are the poultry and beef flavours I think.

I wish we weren't going away on Monday.  I didn't want to change their food before going away but as they weren't eating much of the Felix I was keen to make the switch sooner rather than later. I trust my neighbour who will be looking after them but I feel guilty for leaving them when they're not quite settled.

Fingers crossed for some nice solid poos today from both kittens.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Okay... we have:

*GOOD NEWS*

Monty is now 1.1kg :thumbup:
Dinah is now 1kg :thumbup:

I'm so pleased. 

*BAD NEWS*

After tonight, we'll be out of Grau.  In hindsight, the tester box of six tins really wasn't enough and I should've got two tester boxes (one per kitten) as a minimum. But you live and learn.

I have a 24-mixed-variety pack on its way to me at the moment from Zooplus but I have no idea when it'll reach me. Probably Monday at the earliest. The lovely GM was sending me some too but unless it arrives tomorrow morning we'll be stuck for something to feed the kittens.

I could kick myself for not ordering more Grau initially. 

So our options from tomorrow morning are...

1. Go back to Felix
2. Try them on something new e.g. Lily's Kitchen, Bozita, Smilla or Darling's Raw
3. Give them a treat breakfast e.g. cooked chicken and hope that a parcel arrives.

At the moment they are still having 50g Felix mixed into each meal so that's something that hasn't changed. I'm thinking going back to 100% Felix is possibly the safest option as far as their tummies go but they don't like it much.

I feel like I've let the kittens down by trying them on a new food and then running out of it so quickly.  I think I underestimated how long it would take for my Zooplus order to arrive as I've also ordered stuff from other pet shops (e.g. Purrs in our Hearts) this week and stuff arrived the next day. I'd forgotten how slow Zooplus was.

Sigh. Disappointed in myself. But need a solution - which of the above do you think would be preferable?


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

It was sent with the boyfriend for posting today, he works just opposite the PO so it should have been sent! Will update when he gets home


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

In case the Grau doesn't get there tomorrow instead of going back to Felix I personally would be tempted to crack open the tin of Macs.

Alternatively, some of the raw.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

That's wonderful GM, thank you so much. :001_wub: I really really really appreciate it and hope I'll be able to repay the favour to you one day (same to you Hobbs)!

Thank you Hobbs for the suggestions re: alternatives. I will make sure one of us stays in all day tomorrow to receive deliveries and will keep my fingers firmly crossed that we can continue with the Grau. If it's not here by breakfast, I think we'll go for some Macs. Is it a similar consistency to the Grau? They seem to like the pate type food and leave the chunks of Felix.

This is a steep learning curve for me... believe it or not I am usually an insanely organised person but not with this!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Yes, the Macs is very similar to the Grau - but with the tins you have there are no grains. If I sent you a pouch you can also try that.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Yes, the Macs is very similar to the Grau - but with the tins you have there are no grains. If I sent you a pouch you can also try that.


Yep you did send a pouch too.  Thank you so much.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Well I put out the last of the Grau this evening, for the first time WITHOUT any Felix mixed in, and we had some lovely clean bowls verrrrry quickly... in fact it was the quickest they have eaten their dinner so I honestly think they prefer it without the Felix mixed in. 

Unfortunately the Grau is now all gone and the kittens were sniffing around their empty bowls for something to eat, so I thought I'd try them on a little bit of raw. I weighed out 20g of the mince and broke it into chunks on a plate, then put it down for them.

Well, Dinah took a sniff of it, jumped back (literally!) away from it and ran and hid for a few moments, while Monty got his nose right in there, had a sniff and a lick of it, but didn't actually eat any. Meanwhile, Dinah came back and got her nose right into it as well, then - to my amazement - picked up a piece and started chomping on it! This was when I realised it was a bad idea to put the plate in its usual place in the living room, which is carpeted...  as she was chewing it as a wild cat generally chews a piece of meat and putting it down in between chews. Yuck. 

I sat and watched her eat the whole plateful of mince! Okay so it was only 20g but that's 20g more raw food than she's ever eaten in her life. I was really proud of her and she even licked the plate clean. Monty sat and watched her suspiciously the whole time. 

Very interesting. I put out a tiny bit more to see if she was still hungry and she ate a piece then left the rest. I put Monty next to the plate when Dinah was out of the way to see if he would eat without her there, and he did have another sniff, but didn't eat any.

This will be an intriguing experiment.  I think we'll have to mix the raw in with some of the Grau to start with, once it arrives, to get Monty to go near it... but Dinah appears to really enjoy it straight off. 

Meanwhile I think Monty may still be hungry and I am struggling with what to put out for the poor lad. Might have to be one of those cans of Mac's. I'm a bit worried about giving them too much new food in such a short space of time but I'd really rather not give them any more Felix. In fact I think I'm done with Felix now...


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## Sephie (Jun 2, 2011)

So glad to read that Dinah & Monty had their first taste of raw yesterday and that Dinah seems to be enjoying it! Yay! 

Our 3 have taken to eating so much raw now on top of their dry, I used to only feed maybe 1/4 of a 250g mince sausage for them a day, and now they eat at least half a 250g mince sausage a day! And it's slowly rising! 

*We get our complete raw mince in sausages and they are added with supplements that make it a complete food!


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

That's good, Arnold wont eat any of the Darlings minces which baffles me as he eats other raw treats.

I wouldn't worry about giving them the Macs, its the same quality as Grau which I fin ls doesnt mess with their tummies so much. 

Arnold will only eat a couple of varieties of the Macs pouches, fussy b*gger, and they work out stupidly expensive if you were just to feed those so he only gets them occaisionly.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Since it's looking unlikely that any Grau will arrive today, and we're going away on Monday morning, the kittens got raw for their breakfast this morning with a bit of Lily's Kitchen mixed in with it.

It's the only food I can guarantee there'll be enough of to last us until we get home from Scotland on Wednesday. :nonod: I will have to gradually work Lily's kitchen into their food and check their poos between now and Monday morning to make sure they're okay on it. But they wolfed down the little bit I did give them.

I would be happy for Dinah to be on 100% raw while we're away but I just don't think Monty's quite got the hang of it yet. We'll see how we go over the next couple of days but Monty is a big fan of commercial pate-consistency food it seems.

I'm still really annoyed with myself for not ordering more Grau initially. But then I had thought we would be able to get our Scotland trip out of the way with them staying on the same food the breeder had them on... didn't expect to change their food after just a few days! But they really didn't like the Felix and were not thriving on it like they clearly are now with the better food. Can't believe how chunky Monty feels now. 

If we can successfully get them both eating Lily's Kitchen and Darling's raw between now and tomorrow night, I'll be happy for them to eat a combination of those two foods while we're away and I'll be able to rest assured that there's enough food here for them. 

Blimmin' 'eck I just nearly had a heart attack! Felt something on my knee and moved my keyboard tray to find two kittens nested under my computer desk on top of my printer!  They jumped out at the sound of the keyboard tray being pushed in and scared the life out of me OMG!!! Kittens are not good for the faint-hearted... they hide so easily!


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

Aaaaaand the situation has changed yet again...

Just got a call from my father-in-law. The trip to Scotland is cancelled (did I wish hard enough? ) as their dogs have a flea infestation and their usual dog-sitter can't take them.

This means we will be home with the kittens... and this makes me happy. 

Still doesn't solve the issue of no Grau over the weekend but hopefully a delivery will come on Monday morning so we'll be able to pick it up on Tuesday morning. (Missed deliveries go to our local depot usually and we can pick up 24 hours later.)

In the meantime, raw and Lily's Kitchen will have to be the way to go as we just don't have enough of anything else to consistently feed these two who have turned into voracious eaters! Hard to believe it's the same two kittens who were leaving most of their food a week ago.


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