# For all those worried about slip leads



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

There is a new alternative, with a double stop, which allows the lead to be used as a *normal* slip lead, but you can set the stop so that it can't tighten fully, and also can't come too loose. You can also use it as a halti type device, if that's what floats your boat.

KJK Rope Dog Leads high quality rope and braided dog slip and clip leads, whistle lanyards in cord and leather, rope and braid leads, knot balls and calving, lambing ropes and small halters.

Off to take my unruly youngsters out with their old fashioned slip leads before I make them fetch a big stick to beat them with, and show them what they could have had for their tea, if only I wasn't such a meanie.


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## agrumpycow (Dec 14, 2010)

We use one very similar to this with Pumpkin. It's fantastic


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

I trust there will be a recall of all existing slip leads so that this dangerous defect can be fixed. Always important when buying a lead to look at the NCAP rating.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Strange that, a lot of people protest the innocence of choke chains and pinch collars, you know if used correctly they don't cause any damage etc and they would be lynched in public if they saw fit to take the p in public of those people who were against choke chains and pinch collars.... bit like me posting

For all those worried about pinch collars, here's an alternative:
LuvMyDog Worldwide Herm Sprenger Prong Collar Covering Caps

and thinking it was acceptable and of course it wouldn't be posted to flame now would it............


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

My Granddad has always used slip leads and to be honest I don't see a problem with them for HIS dogs, they are always taught to walk to heel nicely etc and he doesn't use them till they are solid a LLW. 

For my sibes on the other hand, it's basically a noose!

I think with a lot of products it's just common sense, which sadly a lot of people seem to be missing.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Each to their own.

Personally Millie is always in a collar / harness so I clip a lead to that - I wouldn't use a slip lead as I wouldn't take her out without ID on and if she is wearing s collar / harness then its no effort to clip a lead to that.

Although I get the impression there's more to this thread than meets the eye


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Milliepoochie said:


> Each to their own.
> 
> Personally Millie is always in a collar / harness so I clip a lead to that - I wouldn't use a slip lead as I wouldn't take her out without ID on and if she is wearing s collar / harness then its no effort to clip a lead to that.
> 
> Although I get the impression there's more to this thread than meets the eye


Ah see my Granddad will still had a collar on , he's just oldschool I guess :eek6: but it works for him so who am I to tell him off ( I'd get a back hander if I tried anyways ) but like I said not something I would use on mine, or even my Taz as he pulls like a menace!


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Strange that, a lot of people protest the innocence of choke chains and pinch collars, you know if used correctly they don't cause any damage etc and they would be lynched in public if they saw fit to take the p in public of those people who were against choke chains and pinch collars.... bit like me posting
> 
> For all those worried about pinch collars, here's an alternative:
> LuvMyDog Worldwide Herm Sprenger Prong Collar Covering Caps
> ...


Yes but the objection people seem to have slip leads is the fact that they tighten when the dog pulls - this stopper basically gets rid of that concern, with the stopper the lead can't act like a slip lead. it's a normal lead and collar which just happens to not have a clip separating the two components.

The prong collar covers you linked to don't stop the collar putting pressure on small areas of skin when pulled or tightening. I don't think the comparison is that similar in this case


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## Margelli (Jun 23, 2014)

I do wish enforcement of the law, in regards to ID tags and things, was much much stronger actually. Not having an ID tags with a collar or harness is very irresponsible imho. (Not aimed at OP, unless OP doesn't use ID tags)


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Looks similar to what the trainer was using on the small dogs at our class. It could be used as a halti too. Really wasn't impressed with the trainer forcing the lead upon these owners though.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Strange that, a lot of people protest the innocence of choke chains and pinch collars, you know if used correctly they don't cause any damage etc and they would be lynched in public if they saw fit to take the p in public of those people who were against choke chains and pinch collars.... bit like me posting
> 
> For all those worried about pinch collars, here's an alternative:
> LuvMyDog Worldwide Herm Sprenger Prong Collar Covering Caps
> ...


Ahh a kinder Prong Collar what a fantastic invention from a very ironicly named website


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

I am guessing this thread is in relation to another thread or at least that is what the tone of the thread seems to suggests...

Slip leads aren't for me, I for one get on quite well with a half check collar and leash for one dog, and a halti and lead for the other dog.

Works for me, but like anything in life, if its used correctly and safety with a bit of common sense then any tool works.

It might not work for everyone else, and that is why there is choice is this wonderful world of ours...


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

catpud said:


> Yes but the objection people seem to have slip leads is the fact that they tighten when the dog pulls - this stopper basically gets rid of that concern, with the stopper the lead can't act like a slip lead. it's a normal lead and collar which just happens to not have a clip separating the two components.
> 
> The prong collar covers you linked to don't stop the collar putting pressure on small areas of skin when pulled or tightening. I don't think the comparison is that similar in this case


The point I was making is, just because you think it's okay, doesn't make everyone else wrong. OP will still use slip leads, no point to the post other than to wind people up or the last comment wouldn't have been made... A slip lead is a slip lead a prong collar is a prong collar, me showing a picture of what could be used to make it safer and a sarcastic comment doesn't really mean much does it... it's just a picture and a sarcastic comment...


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## Margelli (Jun 23, 2014)

I was put off by slip leads when a friends German Pointer leapt a wall, which had a drop the other side, while on a sliplead held by his owner. That was awful as you can imagine what happened, the owner let go of the lead as quickly as they could but the poor thing had problems with his Oesophagus and the Trachea for the rest of his life. 

The only use we have for them is when a dog escapes or we find a loose one with no owner.


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

Sorry, I misunderstood you  Will teach me to skim read


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Meezey said:


> *The point I was making is, just because you think it's okay, doesn't make everyone else wrong. *OP will still use slip leads, no point to the post other than to wind people up or the last comment wouldn't have been made... A slip lead is a slip lead a prong collar is a prong collar, me showing a picture of what could be used to make it safer and a sarcastic comment doesn't really mean much does it... it's just a picture and a sarcastic comment...


That bold is what I find so saddening about the intonation in certain comments both with the opening post in this thread and from the OP and others in the thread I suspect prompted this. I feel it adds to making PF a not so pleasant place which is such a shame when it gives such support to so many in so many ways.

Each of us is free to use what ever tools or methods one wishes wish but why belittle, deride or scorn those who feel differently 

If a person TRULY feels their way is better, why not try to educate, in a polite way with facts and evidence, but resorting to this type of nonsense, to me smacks of they who protest too much


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Not quite sure what the point of this thread is?

If you're so confident in using slip leads, why the need to continue trying to justify them or point out 'kinder' alternatives? Bizarre.

Another example of how OP seems to think everyone is _so_ interested in their dogs...  



Margelli said:


> I do wish enforcement of the law, in regards to ID tags and things, was much much stronger actually. Not having an ID tags with a collar or harness is very irresponsible imho. (Not aimed at OP, unless OP doesn't use ID tags)


This in buckets. And no, OP illegally doesn't tag her dogs.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

GingerRogers said:


> That bold is what I find so saddening about the intonation in certain comments both with the opening post in this thread and from the OP and others in the thread I suspect prompted this. I feel it adds to making PF a not so pleasant place which is such a shame when it gives such support to so many in so many ways.
> 
> Each of us is free to use what ever tools or methods one wishes wish but why belittle, deride or scorn those who feel differently
> 
> If a person TRULY feels their way is better, why not try to educate, in a polite way with facts and evidence, but resorting to this type of nonsense, to me smacks of they who protest too much


I am the worlds worst for putting my mouth/fingers in to action before my brain and I will hold my hand up to that, I can be unintentionally hateful and like a dog with a bone if I think I'm right. What I've struggled with here of late is people being "nice" to others then purposely going off and starting threads to mock, ridicule or give the virtual fingers to others on the forum, there is being nasty or horrid in the heat of the moment, then there is being calculating and purposely posting just to ridicule other peoples thoughts and feels..


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Does not solvevthe fact that dogs walked only on these are not wearing tags, or that if a dog were to bog off and get lost it wouldnt be wearing anything with which, someone finding said dog could get hold of it with!


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## Margelli (Jun 23, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> Does not solvevthe fact that dogs walked only on these are not wearing tags, or that if a dog were to bog off and get lost it wouldnt be wearing anything with which, someone finding said dog could get hold of it with!


Yes, we've had to hand dogs to the dog warden because a dog hasn't had tags. I think the owners had to a pay a fee or a fine! Also had the immense 'pleasure' or trying to catch a collarless dog.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> Does not solvevthe fact that dogs walked only on these are not wearing tags, or that if a dog were to bog off and get lost it wouldnt be wearing anything with which, someone finding said dog could get hold of it with!


I walk buster on a slip lead, which I also sometimes use as headcoller (as its a flat lead) - but he still has a tag on and collar... No different to people who walk on harnesses or head collars. Why assume if using a slip lead the dog is untagged?

(Paranoid as I am buster actually has two tags to cover my details as well as chipped notice and vet details )


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Lexiedhb said:


> Does not solvevthe fact that dogs walked *only* on these are not wearing tags, or that if a dog were to bog off and get lost it wouldnt be wearing anything with which, someone finding said dog could get hold of it with!





grumpy goby said:


> I walk buster on a slip lead, which I also sometimes use as headcoller (as its a flat lead) - but he still has a tag on and collar... No different to people who walk on harnesses or head collars. Why assume if using a slip lead the dog is untagged?
> 
> (Paranoid as I am buster actually has two tags to cover my details as well as chipped notice and vet details )


I have put the important bit in bold.
There was no assumption, just a comment about people that do *not* collar and tag whilst walking on a slip lead


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

StormyThai said:


> I have put the important bit in bold.
> There was no assumption, just a comment about people that do *not* collar and tag whilst walking on a slip lead


Ok I just thought it was an unfair statement aimed at slip lead users considering people with harnesses, head collars and even collars don't necessarily tag their dogs. 
Its not something that is an issue solely related to slip leads, but everyone IMO.

(I see tonnes of harnessed dogs untagged locally...)


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

grumpy goby said:


> Ok I just thought it was an unfair statement aimed at slip lead users considering people with harnesses, head collars and even collars don't necessarily tag their dogs.
> Its not something that is an issue solely related to slip leads, but everyone IMO.
> 
> (I see tonnes of harnessed dogs untagged locally...)


Fair point 

I didn't make the comment but I think it may have been referring to the OP, who has admitted that no collars or tags are worn. That's how I took it anyway


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## Margelli (Jun 23, 2014)

I think some of it was aimed at OP as they have admitted no tagging in another thread and just use slip leads.  

But I abhor anyone who does not use ID tags regardless of dog walking equipment.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I admitted to going for well over a year or two without using a collar on Tyler, and yes, I used a slip lead during this period and for convenience sake it was simpler just slipping the lead on/off without the bother of a collar in the way too. However for the 7 months or so we've been back to wearing a collar 24/7 and as I seem to have lost my slip lead, I'm using normal leads again. However, I don't have Missy & Cash's ID tags on lately  I really should swop them over from their other collars.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

grumpy goby said:


> I walk buster on a slip lead, which I also sometimes use as headcoller (as its a flat lead) - but he still has a tag on and collar... No different to people who walk on harnesses or head collars. Why assume if using a slip lead the dog is untagged?
> 
> (Paranoid as I am buster actually has two tags to cover my details as well as chipped notice and vet details )


The op of this thread has stated she does not collar or id tag her dogs.:confused1: This thread is a spin off from another, where more members said they also didnt id tag their dogs. It wasnt aimed at those that do. Also at least if your dog has a harness on and bogs off someone has a fighting chance of catching it. :thumbsup:


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Zipper had a slip lead with 2 stoppers on it - one either side of the ring - I thought they were common and known as semi-slip leads.
I stopped using it as it wasn't quite long enough for a small dog.


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Here we go again 

Why can't bygones just be bygones?


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Blimey, I better report myself to the dog warden AND the RSPCA...and maybe even the police.

Over the years I have sometimes walked the dogs without a collar and ID, I've even resorted to use my belt as an impromptu slip lead on more than one occasion.

The spooky thing is, not once was this an issue for my dogs, for other dogs, for other owners or myself. They never garotted themselves, injured themselves or others, and whether they did or didn't have a collar and leash made zero difference to how close they stayed when asked to do so.

I'll thus proudly join SL in the completely unfit owner brigade. In prison, obviously.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Milliepoochie said:


> Each to their own.
> 
> Personally Millie is always in a collar / harness so I clip a lead to that - I wouldn't use a slip lead as I wouldn't take her out without ID on and if she is wearing s collar / harness then its no effort to clip a lead to that.
> 
> Although I get the impression there's more to this thread than meets the eye


Um, no, I thought people might be interested in a new product, I found it quite interesting actually, someone I know with spaniels is trying it out on their dogs.

-------------------------------------------

Crikey, general sense of humour failure and paranoia alive and well!


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Lauren5159 said:


> Here we go again
> 
> Why can't bygones just be bygones?


Fundamentally people's opinions on them aren't going to change. We don't need a new thread every week just to confirm that. I bought one by mistake once and used it for parts.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I guess I just wonder why some think they are above the law, and risk losing their dogs in the process. Its just nonsensical to me.
What other laws dont apply to you?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

GingerRogers said:


> If a person TRULY feels their way is better, why not try to educate, in a polite way with facts and evidence, but resorting to this type of nonsense, to me smacks of they who protest too much


Do you mean if someone TRULY believes their way is better they should try to educate everyone else or do you mean that everyone that disagrees with them should try and educate them.
On the other hand has it ever occurred to you that there are a lot of equally good ways, some work for some dogs and owners and others for other dogs and owners and nobody wants to be educated to try out something they have no need of because their way TRULY is the best way for them and their dogs. 



Fleur said:


> Zipper had a slip lead with 2 stoppers on it - one either side of the ring - I thought they were common and known as semi-slip leads.
> I stopped using it as it wasn't quite long enough for a small dog.


I think I first had a slip lead with a stopper erm, the first time I ever bought a slip lead - 40 years ago.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> I guess I just wonder why some think they are above the law, and risk losing their dogs in the process. Its just nonsensical to me.
> What other laws dont apply to you?


I don't think I'm above the law at all, I just don't risk my dogs when training them, and putting them in water, the two youngsters went in the reservoir twice today, and did a fair amount of retrieves, amongst other stuff, up and down steep slopes with lots of tangled fallen trees and thick undergrowth. I choose not to risk sticking a collar on them that could easily get snagged up. My choice, get over it


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I don't think I'm above the law at all, I just don't risk my dogs when training them, and putting them in water, the two youngsters went in the reservoir twice today, and did a fair amount of retrieves, amongst other stuff, up and down steep slopes with lots of tangled fallen trees and thick undergrowth. I choose not to risk sticking a collar on them that could easily get snagged up. My choice, get over it


I see your point but it is still illegal so i believe people have a right to correct you for it.

It is the same as someone saying there was no one else on the roads so i drunk drove, no one got hurt so it is my choice, get over it. Even if it doesn't affect anyone else, it is still illegal.

In the slip lead debate, i haven't ever used one, it is too much like a noose for my liking. Even if your dog walks beautifully, why put something that can tighten all the way to choking on them? There are martingale all in one leads all over the place which are a much kinder alternative to slip leads. Most working dogs i have met have been walked up on a martingale all in one and their ID was on that so when they aren't actually working they are complying with the law.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Technically it's an enhancement for a problem which doesn't exist since slip leads shouldn't be used on dogs which are going to behave in a manner which would cause them to tighten anyway. Your projections are over-inflated ( ooo Matron ) and for that reason I'm oot.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

BeauNoir said:


> I see your point but it is still illegal so i believe people have a right to correct you for it.
> 
> It is the same as someone saying there was no one else on the roads so i drunk drove, no one got hurt so it is my choice, get over it. Even if it doesn't affect anyone else, it is still illegal.
> 
> In the slip lead debate, i haven't ever used one, it is too much like a noose for my liking. Even if your dog walks beautifully, why put something that can tighten all the way to choking on them? There are martingale all in one leads all over the place which are a much kinder alternative to slip leads. Most working dogs i have met have been walked up on a martingale all in one and their ID was on that so when they aren't actually working they are complying with the law.


Actually, it's not, there is an exemption for sporting dogs. As I've stated many times before, if I am taking them somewhere that isn't at the back of my house, or on a training/walking session, they have collars, so when I take the youngsters to a show, they wear collars. Until they have their show leads put on.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

What is a slip lead?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Actually, it's not, there is an exemption for sporting dogs. As I've stated many times before, if I am taking them somewhere that isn't at the back of my house, or on a training/walking session, they have collars, so when I take the youngsters to a show, they wear collars. Until they have their show leads put on.


Yes, there is an exception to the law for working and sporting dogs, whilst actually working.

I train my dogs, as does every other dog owner here - they swim, retrieve, go through cover, under/over fences, uphill/downhill - it doesn't make them working dogs and an exception to the law.

Although as my vet once said - a slip lead and a spaniel makes the owner a game keeper!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

It is entirely up to you but I think your risk assesment is flawed. Dogs go missing daily, dogs on here have been lost, just take a look at dogs lost, or even facebook. I cant recall ever hearing "my dog got tangled in under growth by its collar" . Dont get me wrong im sure it does happen, but not on the same scale as dogs - even well trained ones bogging off into the distance, through circumstance beyond your control. The story that springs to mind here us when dogless lost kilo for a few panic stricken hours.
it is the same as driving back drunk from your local because "its just up the road".


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Surely, the fact that your dogs are having a swim in the lake or running round in undergrowth, doesn't mean that they're working, so it is illegal for them not to be wearing ID.

I take Rosie to the wood every day and she chases squirrels. Does that mean she's 'working'?


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

SixStar said:


> Yes, there is an exception to the law for working and sporting dogs, whilst actually working.:


This.

Hence why i said that the working dogs i met when i lived in rural Lincolnshire were usually on the all in one martingales, because on the way to the shoot and on the way back, they still need to have id.

So, it is illegal and people have the right to call you up on it. Same as people are pulled up for being offlead next to roads, not securing dogs correctly in cars, etc.


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

gorgeous said:


> What is a slip lead?


It's the same as a choke chain in design but made out of rope or another soft material.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

PawsOnMe said:


> It's the same as a choke chain in design but made out of rope or another soft material.


Oh . Does not sound my cup of tea at all. Thank you for explaining.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

My issue isn't at all with the use of slip leads, I wouldn't use one because of the tendency for my two to lunge at cats they see on the road. Harnesses work much better for us. Each to their own. 

I do get annoyed about dog owners ignoring the law though. No matter where you live or where you walk your dogs, if you have a pet dog, you must abide by the Control of Dogs Order 1992. Dog owners flouting rules and laws is what ultimately brings about tighter restrictions on dog ownership, and that affects us all.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Assuming for a minute that no decent owner would use a device...or no device...without knowing their dog and his/her reactions exceptionally well, I don't get the whole broohaha about the collar and ID tag. 

MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified. Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?

The -'incidentally never enforced - dog ID rules date back to when there was no microchipping. Is anyone seriously saying that if they were to meet a stray dog who stands in front of them baring his teeth, they'd have a good old fumble with his collar and check his ID tag? Pfffffft....


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Assuming for a minute that no decent owner would use a device...or no device...without knowing their dog and his/her reactions exceptionally well, I don't get the whole broohaha about the collar and ID tag.
> 
> MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified. Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?
> 
> The -'incidentally never enforced - dog ID rules date back to when there was no microchipping. Is anyone seriously saying that if they were to meet a stray dog who stands in front of them baring his teeth, they'd have a good old fumble with his collar and check his ID tag? Pfffffft....


It's the law.

It doesn't matter if you or I think it's stupid, outdated, not enforced etc. I think gantry speed cameras and variable speed restrictions on motorways are ridiculous, and as much as I'd like to, that doesn't mean I can just drive at 90mph round the M25.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Assuming for a minute that no decent owner would use a device...or no device...without knowing their dog and his/her reactions exceptionally well, I don't get the whole broohaha about the collar and ID tag.
> 
> MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, *EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified.* Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?
> 
> The -'incidentally never enforced - dog ID rules date back to when there was no microchipping. Is anyone seriously saying that if they were to meet a stray dog who stands in front of them baring his teeth, they'd have a good old fumble with his collar and check his ID tag? Pfffffft....


That's not true, dogs slip through the system all the time.
Your thoughts on the law are irrelevant, it is the law for dogs to wear tags unless they are working.

There are many laws that are stupid, they are still laws.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Assuming for a minute that no decent owner would use a device...or no device...without knowing their dog and his/her reactions exceptionally well, I don't get the whole broohaha about the collar and ID tag.
> 
> MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified. Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?
> 
> The -'incidentally never enforced - dog ID rules date back to when there was no microchipping. Is anyone seriously saying that if they were to meet a stray dog who stands in front of them baring his teeth, they'd have a good old fumble with his collar and check his ID tag? Pfffffft....


As it happens on Saturday I found a little black terrier on our street, it had a collar but no tag. The vets were closed, theres no animal shelter in my village & the dog warden doesn't work weekends & I don't drive, not easy for me to get it scanned. So I was lumbered with this little dog, which kept flippin chasing the cats!. I had to put one of my dogs leads on it and roam the streets asking if anyone recognised it. To cut a long story short it only lived across the road & belonged to our newish neighbours lol But if that dog had been tagged it would have saved me a lot of grief & 3 wasted hours. I wish the law was enforced so people would stop flouting the law.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

bearcub said:


> It's the law.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you or I think it's stupid, outdated, not enforced etc. I think gantry speed cameras and variable speed restrictions on motorways are ridiculous, and as much as I'd like to, *that doesn't mean I can just drive at 90mph round the M25.*


Yes, you CAN. It is ENTIRELY under your discretion whether or not you stick to the speed limit and follow the law.....or accept a fine and potentially the loss of your licence.

But it IS your call.

Bit of an apple and orange comparison, though. There are sensible reasons WHY driving at a certain speed should be enforced. But with a collar plus ID tag?

I posit that the relative risk to a dog harming itself from wearing a collar and tag when dashing about on a walk is a 1000:1 to a dog NOT wearing one. All you need is a bit of a branch sticking out somewhere , the collar or tag getting caught, and the dog panicking....


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Assuming for a minute that no decent owner would use a device...or no device...without knowing their dog and his/her reactions exceptionally well, I don't get the whole broohaha about the collar and ID tag.
> 
> *MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified. Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?*
> 
> The -'incidentally never enforced - dog ID rules date back to when there was no microchipping. Is anyone seriously saying that if they were to meet a stray dog who stands in front of them baring his teeth, they'd have a good old fumble with his collar and check his ID tag? Pfffffft....


This is just not true.

I've found plenty of stray dogs out and about on walks, all of those who where wearing collars and id were reunited with their owners within an hour just by calling the numbers on the tag or going to the address. Those who weren't I've either had to go to a massive amount of effort and inconvenience to try and track down the owner or leave them where I found them.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Assuming for a minute that no decent owner would use a device...or no device...without knowing their dog and his/her reactions exceptionally well, I don't get the whole broohaha about the collar and ID tag.
> 
> MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified. Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?
> 
> The -'incidentally never enforced - dog ID rules date back to when there was no microchipping. Is anyone seriously saying that if they were to meet a stray dog who stands in front of them baring his teeth, they'd have a good old fumble with his collar and check his ID tag? Pfffffft....


About two years ago, I was walking Rosie up a street, leading away from a very busy main road, back to the estate where we live. I saw a young Labrador running towards us and, as she got level, I managed to get my arm around her and stop her.

She was literally yards away from a road with non-stop traffic, but she wasn't wearing a collar, so I had no choice but to thread Rosie's lead through her collar, then wrap it around the Labrador girl's neck. She didn't like it, but I had no other way.

When I got her home, I couldn't ring the Dog Warden, as it was Bank Holiday, so I rung the local Police and gave them the details of her and my address.

Two hours later, a distraught young woman turned up, with two very young children. All three were in their pyjamas and slippers and it was pouring with rain.

They had just got up, apparently, let the puppy out and the dustbin men had been in and left the gate open. Those poor folk had spent a total of three hours, in the rain, running around the estate and streets looking for their puppy. It turned out she was heading for the tow path, where they usually walked her, but to get there, she would have had to cross that road.

Had she been wearing a collar and tag, I could have taken her straight home and saved the Family a whole lot of fright and trauma.

To give the young woman her due, she said immediately she would get a collar and tag and I often see her walking the young bitch and she does always wear a collar.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Yes, you CAN. It is ENTIRELY under your discretion whether or not you stick to the speed limit and follow the law.....or accept a fine and potentially the loss of your licence.
> 
> But it IS your call.
> 
> ...


A minimal risk if you keep your eyes on your dog, or at least know whereabouts they are.

eta dogs have body parts that can be just as vulnerable to sticking out branches.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Me thinks this thread is serving no purpose any more (if it ever did)...


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I've used ordinary slip leads, they're no problem if used on a dog that isn't pulling. I used one on Teddy at the weekend in his training session, he's not a 100% walker but because we were training and he was doing exercises it made using the lead safe with him.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Hmmmmm so let's see above the law because dogs do what pretty much every dog can do, go in to water to retrieve something.... Here's a thought what are those things called you know the ones designed for dogs who might go in the woods, swim and all the stuff ALL dogs do? Oh yeah quick release safety collars.... Dogs are not computers no matter how well trained you think your dog is they will have an off day...


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

bearcub said:


> This is just not true.
> 
> I've found plenty of stray dogs out and about on walks, all of those who where wearing collars and id were reunited with their owners within an hour just by calling the numbers on the tag or going to the address. Those who weren't I've either had to go to a massive amount of effort and inconvenience to try and track down the owner or leave them where I found them.


Firstly, I think it was very kind of you to help these dogs.

But secondly...I'm not sure that you ultimately did those dogs a huge favour. One could argue that it actually encourages sloppy, negligent ownership. If I let my dog roam in the serene belief that should he get lost, I would always get him back without a hassle, that wouldn't do much to make me review my containment strategies.

Incidentally, I know a few of those dogs myself who are routinely out and about on their own. Each time I SWEAR the next time I won't yet again deliver it back home to hear a non-plussed "oh, sorry, he is such a scamperer! Little monkey, eh?". If I wouldn't feel so sorry for the dogs with their doodle-brained owners, I'd deliver them to the vet or the shelter and let the owner sweat buckets, but dogs can't pick their owners.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2014)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Assuming for a minute that no decent owner would use a device...or no device...without knowing their dog and his/her reactions exceptionally well, I don't get the whole broohaha about the collar and ID tag.
> 
> MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified. Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?
> 
> The -'incidentally never enforced - dog ID rules date back to when there was no microchipping. Is anyone seriously saying that if they were to meet a stray dog who stands in front of them baring his teeth, they'd have a good old fumble with his collar and check his ID tag? Pfffffft....


Microchips can and do fail. Do you have your dogs' checked daily?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Umm....



Nevermind :nonod:


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

The kind of slip lead mentioned in this thread is nothing new, they've been around for years. 
I've got no problem with slip leads being used responsibly on dogs that do not pull, but I also think that if you're being _truly _responsible and walking your dog with a collar and ID, then a slip lead isn't any more convenient than a regular lead.

I sincerely hope that those who refuse to use ID tags on their dogs never lose their dog on a walk, or have their dogs escape etc. But I suppose these people are far superior to other dog owners so it _definitely_ won't happen to them, and they should therefore be exempt from the law! 

If people are worried about collars getting caught in undergrowth then they should keep a closer eye on their dogs or buy a breakaway collar like this: Keepsafe Breakaway Collar - - Friends of Fido


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified. Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?


I'll be honest. I'm sick of people bringing dogs they've found wandering the streets without tags to my house, when the vets are closed and the council is closed, and they don't want the bother of trying to find the owner themselves or keep the dog until the vets and the council reopen that if I could personally FINE every owner who doesn't tag their dog then I would be a very happy lady!

They bring them to me because being a dog walker and living where I live I'm well known in the area, but people seem to think they can leave the dog with me, which they can't. One memorable case when I refused to take a dog into my house, they dumped it in my front garden at 2 in the morning and drove off.

If you want to know why, being a dog lover, I refuse to take them in is because NO dog, for ANY reason, mixes with mine (and at that time, with paying customer's dogs) without an assessment and meeting on neutral territory, and I don't have a big enough house to keep dogs separated for an entire weekend until the council is back up and running.


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

On the other side of the coin, Daisy was struggling to get out of a pond a few weeks ago as the embankment was a bit steep and slippery. My OH was able to haul her out using the handle on her harness, so it can work the other way too!  

Personally I always have ID on Daisy, the panic I would feel if she went missing would be immense (I lost her once for 15 minutes months ago and I was a state!), so anything that could reduce the time where I'm left wondering what has happened to her is vital for me. She has both mine and OH's numbers on there, and our address. If she gets lost, I want her back as quickly as possible.

She's a typical spaniel, always in the undergrowth, ponds, puddles and she's never been hooked on anything with her collar or harness. I do supervise her while swimming very closely and don't let her get further out than I would be able to get to quickly just in case she did get into trouble, but she could still get stuck in undergrowth even without a harness on if her leg got tangled etc. I think supervision is key.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

In 20 years (jesus, that makes me sound ancient) of owning and walking various dogs (my own, shelter dogs and friends and families dogs) with collars and tags on, some with harnesses, some with head collars, one in a muzzle I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a dog caught on something and needing rescue. Every single time it was the muzzle that caught up. The Julius K9 picks up leaves and twigs in the grooves it has but Spen has never got caught up on anything enough to even notice it. I am wary of where he swims with a harness on though and make sure it's somewhere I can get in easily and help if needs be.

Rupert rarely had ID on him I'm afraid to say. Not because I felt as though I was above the law, simply because ever single time I put ID on him he lost it. I tried those tags that slip over the collar, he lost the collar! Never lost his license tag. Or the plastic thing attached to his collar that said he was microchipped. But without fail he lost any ID tag I put on within a day or two


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Sweety said:


> About two years ago, I was walking Rosie up a street, leading away from a very busy main road, back to the estate where we live. I saw a young Labrador running towards us and, as she got level, I managed to get my arm around her and stop her.
> 
> She was literally yards away from a road with non-stop traffic, but she wasn't wearing a collar, so I had no choice but to thread Rosie's lead through her collar, then wrap it around the Labrador girl's neck. She didn't like it, but I had no other way.
> 
> ...


I know what you are saying. Listen, I am not saying dog's SHOULDN'T wear a collar and ID tag and I realise that this is how it could be interpreted.

But the issue here is whether a collar and ID tag makes a dog ...or others...SAFER.

And I'm not sure it does. Microchipping superceded ID tags. As to the collar, i have never been out with my dogs where something, a garment, a belt, their double leash, couldn't have been misappropriated to make a makeshift collar for a roaming collarless dog. Never mind for my own.

The irony with your experience...whilst deeply upsetting to the family, it likely saved the dog's life long-term. I bet they bolted and dead-locked their gate from that day on....something they may NOT have considered if the pup hadn't escaped.With or without a collar.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Fluffster said:


> On the other side of the coin, Daisy was struggling to get out of a pond a few weeks ago as the embankment was a bit steep and slippery. My OH was able to haul her out using the handle on her harness, so it can work the other way too!
> .


Very good point 

We take our two on canal holidays quite regularly, they also swim pretty much everyday on our walks in streams, creeks, or the sea. To be honest I have never been concerned about them getting caught up on their collars or harnesses when swimming and especially when on the canal the more things attached to them, the easier it is to haul them out when they can't get themselves out of the water.

Last year we stopped to help a couple who were struggling to get their lab out of the canal, an overweight, soaking wet lab with no harness or collar on is not any easy thing to get a grip on and lift out of the canal!!

I have also changed from id discs to the slide on ones as I have lost several with the dogs going through the undergrowth, they are the only things to have ever got caught up though


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, I do take your point, Hopeattheendofthetunnel, but this family were very frightened by the fact they lived so close to a main road and the fact they may not get their pup back.

I think they would have been equally as frightened even if she had been wearing ID.

The point is really, had she been wearing a tag, I could have taken her straight home and spared that young woman and her kiddies the Morning from Hell.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

This thread is in dire need of a theme tune


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Guys...WHERE do you all live that getting a dog to the vets so that they can run a scanner over it to identify its owner is such a lengthy palaver?

I don't mean that in any way dismissively BTW, but I live on a edge of a small market town and getting a dog to a nearby vet for identification has never been an issue.

All the dogs I've found I either knew where they lived OR brought them to the vet for a scan if I didn't. Unless the dog behaved iffy or ran off ...and then I called the local police to report it.

So do you all live THAT remote or...?

If you are stranded with a lost or roaming dog without a collar, take it to a vet, have it scanned and all will be well. If you see a collarless dog struggling to get out of the water haul it out by the scruff of the neck. And if you walk on Dartmoor and find an ID tag....there is a chance it could be mine. As I lost heaps of them over the years. So call the number on the tag and pop in for a coffee  All dogs welcome and the garden is secured even for the most Houdini of them.

C'mon folks, lighten up! You can't seriously think it was remotely fair to insinuate that SL is a cr*p owner because she uses a slip lead and leaves her dogs without a collar knowing they are perfectly safe. Not unless you are a mean spiritied viper who delights in insulting a fellow dog owner.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Totally agree with others re: the "collar getting trapped" argument. Bo's your typical HPR, pushing through all sorts of cover at speed, and never once has her collar or harness become trapped in anything. I'm not aware of that happening to anyone, for that matter.

I'm also sure that 'training' doesn't qualify as working.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Guys...WHERE do you all live that getting a dog to the vets so that they can run a scanner over it to identify its owner is such a lengthy palaver?
> 
> I don't mean that in any way dismissively BTW, but I live on a edge of a small market town and getting a dog to a nearby vet for identification has never been an issue.
> 
> ...


I don't think for one minute that anyone has insinuated SL is a "crap" owner. 

The discussion is about slip leads and ID tags really, which are required by law.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I dont think anyone said anyone was a crap owner, just questioned some of thd decisions being made.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Guys...WHERE do you all live that getting a dog to the vets so that they can run a scanner over it to identify its owner is such a lengthy palaver?
> 
> I don't mean that in any way dismissively BTW, but I live on a edge of a small market town and getting a dog to a nearby vet for identification has never been an issue.
> 
> ...


Umm, early mornings, late evenings, nights, weekends, bank holidays....plenty of times when a vet may not be open and easily accessible. If I found a stray collarless dog out of hours, I'd have to drive it to the emergency vet that is a 20 minute drive. Sure, not the end of the world, but that's 40 minutes of drive time plus extra taken up because someone didn't put a tag on their dog.


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## Margelli (Jun 23, 2014)

labradrk said:


> Umm, early mornings, late evenings, nights, weekends, bank holidays....plenty of times when a vet may not be open and easily accessible. If I found a stray collarless dog out of hours, I'd have to drive it to the emergency vet that is a 20 minute drive. Sure, not the end of the world, but that's 40 minutes of drive time plus extra taken up because someone didn't put a tag on their dog.


And there is no guarantee the vets will scan it either. :/


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Guys...WHERE do you all live that getting a dog to the vets so that they can run a scanner over it to identify its owner is such a lengthy palaver?
> 
> I don't mean that in any way dismissively BTW, but I live on a edge of a small market town and getting a dog to a nearby vet for identification has never been an issue.
> 
> ...


I haven't read this thread as people saying SL is a crap owner, it's gone a bit off track as is more about id tags now than the original topic but I think it's just people sharing their own experiences with regards to dogs with or without id.

I have found two dogs before, both on busy roads and both while I have been driving. I have stopped, managed to catch them and on both occasions the dogs have had collars and id tags. One had the full address and I was able to walk (well carry) the dog back to it's house just a few streets away. 
The second one I was able to call the owners number on the tag, explain where I was and stayed with the dog until they arrived in their car to collect it. On both occasions I had my two dogs in the car and would be very hesitant to put a strange dog in my car to take it to the vets/dog warden, so am very grateful that both these dogs had id and I was able to reunite them with their (frantic and very grateful) owners within minutes.

Not insinuating anyone is a shite owner, just sharing my experiences


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## Fubrite (Jan 22, 2013)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified. Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?


I'm fairly sure I read a thread on here a while back saying that if your dog is killed by a car, it generally isn't scanned.

Chips can also migrate, (a friend of mine's collie's chip is in her leg and headed towards her paw) so unless a scan is really thorough, it could possibly be missed.

Probably easier and safer to put collar and tags on your dog when out. If you're really worried, use a breakaway collar...


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Margelli said:


> And there is no guarantee the vets will scan it either. :/


The practice I used to work for always did. But invariably the chip was difficult to locate, or the details were not up to date or (and this happened often...), the owners were out looking for the dog and were unreachable. So frequently the dogs would end up in our kennels for 3, 4, 5+ hours or even overnight. That is an extra animal to check on/deal with that is occupying a kennel space and detracting attention from our actual sick patients.

I remember having numerous pairs in season bitches followed by a love-sick entire male dog come in as 'strays'. They were always great fun to deal with. 

Then the owners would get stroppy when they had to pay the stray dog kennel fee from the dog warden....

All avoidable by using a tag!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Guys...WHERE do you all live that getting a dog to the vets so that they can run a scanner over it to identify its owner is such a lengthy palaver?.


Do you drive? I can't for medical reasons. My nearest vets is a 20 minute drive away. The tierheim is even further away. If I find a loose dog on a walk I have absolutely no way of getting it scanned unless the mobile vet is available to come out. So it would be a hell of a palaver to get a dog with no ID tag scanned.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Do you mean if someone TRULY believes their way is better they should try to educate everyone else or do you mean that everyone that disagrees with them should try and educate them.
> On the other hand has it ever occurred to you that there are a lot of equally good ways, some work for some dogs and owners and others for other dogs and owners and nobody wants to be educated to try out something they have no need of because their way TRULY is the best way for them and their dogs.


And why did you pick me to patronise prey tell Blitz. And mis read/quote. I said quite clearly every one is entitled to their own methods and tools.

My issue is with the childish taunts thrown at people who have 'different' standards to some posters. Cos different is good, same is boring, or we wouldnt get so many great debates would we 

In this instance 'I believe' SL posted this thread to deliberately stir it again or she would have left it with oh look new (old) product I am off for a walk, with out all the pathetic stick beating nonsense. It wouldn't be the first time she has beaten a figurative dog repeatedly.

.............oh yeah and misconstrued posts like yours, where actually I think its you who is assuming they know best


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Guys...WHERE do you all live that getting a dog to the vets so that they can run a scanner over it to identify its owner is such a lengthy palaver?
> 
> I don't mean that in any way dismissively BTW, but I live on a edge of a small market town and getting a dog to a nearby vet for identification has never been an issue.
> 
> ...


I actually found more stray dogs when I lived in a very remote part of North Yorkshire than I do now in Kent. It was just not as easy as finding a vet or a dog rescue - nearest one could be 20+ miles away so it would be a massive palaver and would have cut across my day, inconvenienced me, distressed my own dogs etc etc. And I just would never risk putting a strange dog in my car with my two. It would be chaos :scared:

And I hope that no one would accuse or insinuate anyone on here of being a crap owner, that would be very unkind indeed.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

McKenzie said:


> Microchips can and do fail. Do you have your dogs' checked daily?


If this was intended as a joke I am not getting the punchline.

Are you in all seriousness suggesting that a microchip is a less secure identification method than an ID tag attached to the collar by a flimsy little metal ring?

You know how many ID tags I and others have lost over the years? LOTS. Dog starts walk WITH ID, finishes without. Happens around the globe. Every day.

Do you know how many microchips get "lost" or start to mysteriously fail? Very, very, very VERY few. A darn side fewer than dogs WITH collar AND ID tags being killed in the car because the owner has a fatal accident. So are we not taking dogs out in cars any more either just to be super safe?

What a fulfilling, thrilling life.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Fubrite said:


> I'm fairly sure I read a thread on here a while back saying that if your dog is killed by a car, it generally isn't scanned.
> 
> Chips can also migrate, (a friend of mine's collie's chip is in her leg and headed towards her paw) so unless a scan is really thorough, it could possibly be missed.
> 
> Probably easier and safer to put collar and tags on your dog when out. If you're really worried, use a breakaway collar...


You did, guess who 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/365101-what-if-worst-happened.html

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/106122481273571383882/albums/6012616680327189377/6012616683937038018?pid=6012616683937038018&oid=106122481273571383882


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## Fubrite (Jan 22, 2013)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Guys...WHERE do you all live that getting a dog to the vets so that they can run a scanner over it to identify its owner is such a lengthy palaver?
> 
> ...
> 
> C'mon folks, lighten up! You can't seriously think it was remotely fair to insinuate that SL is a cr*p owner because she uses a slip lead and leaves her dogs without a collar knowing they are perfectly safe. Not unless you are a mean spiritied viper who delights in insulting a fellow dog owner.


I live near the center of a large market town. I don't drive. The nearest vet is 30 mins walk away, except that I would need to take my dog home first, as dealing with him trying to play with the stray dog every step of the way would be impossible. So, depending on where I was, you're looking at about an hour and a half of my time to get this dog to the vet...

If the OP wants to use a slip lead on her non-pulling dogs, that's up to her - she's certainly not a bad owner for it! The fact remains that it is a legal requirement to have collar and tag on a dog in a public place when that dog is not working (that doesn't include training), whether or not that dog is 'perfectly safe'.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> If this was intended as a joke I am not getting the punchline.
> 
> Are you in all seriousness suggesting that a microchip is a less secure identification method than an ID tag attached to the collar by a flimsy little metal ring?
> 
> ...


Do you have proof of this?
I have known many chips to migrate in dogs, cats, horses and donkeys.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> Do you have proof of this?
> I have known many chips to migrate in dogs, cats, horses and donkeys.


Am I being dim  I thought when they migrate they can still be scanned but are in the wrong place? Correct me if I'm wrong ( which I probably am! )


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

They can still be scanned but the scanner has to run directly over it to pick it up, therefore if it migrates to the chest (relatively common) and the very busy overworked dog warden scans all over their back, head and shoulders. They would show as no chip.

Chips are only as good as the person looking for it, tags are useful because they are so obvious.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> Am I being dim  I thought when they migrate they can still be scanned but are in the wrong place? Correct me if I'm wrong ( which I probably am! )


They can, if you can find them. Not all vets or wardens will spend the time looking for a lost chip


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> If this was intended as a joke I am not getting the punchline.
> 
> Are you in all seriousness suggesting that a microchip is a less secure identification method than an ID tag attached to the collar by a flimsy little metal ring?
> 
> ...


Why does it have to be 'one or the other'? This isn't really about microchips versus collars and tags. Rosie has both. The point being that if she escaped from my garden, or got lost in the park, anyone finding her could bring her home straight away.

Yes, there are some very poor quality tags out there. The machine in Pets at Home, for instance, where you can print your own tag. They're awful, flimsy and thin with writing, not printing, that rubs off in no time.

I ordered Rosie's tags from my vet and they're made in Durham and arrive by post. They're solid brass, the lettering is stamped, not printed, and the rings that attach them are solid brass. Rosie runs round in undergrowth, bushes, etc., every day and, in five years, she has never lost one and none of them have ever rubbed or faded.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Branston's chip in his leg, when I mentioned it to the vet as I was concerned it may not be picked up on a scan, she suggested a tag with his microchip number on :lol: couldn't quite see the logic in that!!! So have opted for a strong, sturdy, slide on tag with all of my info on, that hopefully cannot fall off.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> Am I being dim  I thought when they migrate they can still be scanned but are in the wrong place? Correct me if I'm wrong ( which I probably am! )


A chip that's migrated still works but it may not actually be picked up. Spencers was in his armpit last time he was scanned. It took a good 10 minutes of scanning him to find it, it would absolutely not be picked up on the quick scan I've seen done with found dogs. Which worries me. He has a tag on his collar saying he's chipped but not sure it would do much good.


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> Am I being dim  I thought when they migrate they can still be scanned but are in the wrong place? Correct me if I'm wrong ( which I probably am! )


This is one of my main worries, they say they scan the whole neck and shoulder area but Jasper's is migrating down his leg (we're going to have to get him re-done). I've heard of dogs that have them migrating down their back or under their front legs.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

As for concerns over tags being lost because of flimsy rings hanging from collars there are these...
Engraved Dog Tags


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> A chip that's migrated still works but it may not actually be picked up. Spencers was in his armpit last time he was scanned. It took a good 10 minutes of scanning him to find it, it would absolutely not be picked up on the quick scan I've seen done with found dogs. Which worries me. He has a tag on his collar saying he's chipped but not sure it would do much good.


Thats the thing isnt it. How long is a vet gonna look for a chip they dont even know exists, I guess thats one thing if they make it compulsory at least theres a higher chance theres one somewhere.

In the village hall where my 72 yr old mum goes for yoga ( I have seen it as its where the scentwork course were held) they have a poster offering free micro chipping for OAPs, I asked her if she thought it was time yet :lol:


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> They can, if you can find them. Not all vets or wardens will spend the time looking for a lost chip


Ahhh that is why I was confused! Luckily our warden does a full body scan ( I know as I've found MULTIPLE dogs straying in this area )

Just to add to this I am OCD about identification

Skyla has FOUR tags on her, two on her collar and two on her harness. One with my details on and one with Heart Welfare's details on, she is microchipped and Heart Welfare have been left as the secondary contact.

Taz & Blade have two tags, one on their harness and one on their collar and both chipped.

I also do not let them outside in the yard without their collars on, just in case by some miracle they escape the wall and run away


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Meezey said:


> As for concerns over tags being lost because of flimsy rings hanging from collars there are these...
> Engraved Dog Tags


Dief has one in stainless from Tillymint. Much more readable than the discs and no dangling.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Bailey has an ID tag lasered on with my name, word microchipped, my address, house number, my mobile and my mums mobile. On his collar.
On his harness he has one saying "I'm identichipped. Please scan me" free off identichip. Just in case he loses his collar or something. Whenever we go somewhere it's offered I check his chip. Last time I checked about a month ago, it was instantly found.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

diefenbaker said:


> Dief has one in stainless from Tillymint. Much more readable than the discs and no dangling.


We have them for Cian's collars unfortunately our dog License tags are on disc's  that said haven't lost his License disc yet.....


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Canine K9 said:


> Bailey has an ID tag lasered on with my name, word microchipped, my address, house number, my mobile and my mums mobile. On his collar.
> On his harness he has one saying "I'm identichipped. Please scan me" free off identichip. Just in case he loses his collar or something. *Whenever we go somewhere it's offered I check his chip. Last time I checked about a month ago, it was instantly found*.


Very good idea that :thumbsup:

Unless she has a grain of rice stuck under her skin, I can actually feel ninjas, its right where its meant to be.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> But the issue here is whether a collar and ID tag makes a dog ...or others...SAFER.


Actually no. The issue is whether wearing a collar is unsafe. Otherwise there's no reason not to comply with the law and your dog would have both chip and visible identification.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> Whenever we go somewhere it's offered I check his chip. Last time I checked about a month ago, it was instantly found.


This has reminded me I need to get Dief's chip tested before our holiday. This thread had some use after all.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2014)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> If this was intended as a joke I am not getting the punchline.
> 
> Are you in all seriousness suggesting that a microchip is a less secure identification method than an ID tag attached to the collar by a flimsy little metal ring?
> 
> ...


Why would it be a joke 

You're saying people shouldn't bother with ID tags if their dogs are microchipped. I'm saying microchipping isn't foolproof so why wouldn't you use both forms of ID. As has been said, you can get slide-on tags which are not going to be lost unless the whole collar is lost.

I'm not sure what car travel has to do with this thread  But if you want to use that analogy, I'm more likely to die in a car crash than a house fire but I still have smoke alarms...


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2014)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> There is a new alternative, with a double stop, which allows the lead to be used as a *normal* slip lead, but you can set the stop so that it can't tighten fully, and also can't come too loose. You can also use it as a halti type device, if that's what floats your boat.
> 
> KJK Rope Dog Leads high quality rope and braided dog slip and clip leads, whistle lanyards in cord and leather, rope and braid leads, knot balls and calving, lambing ropes and small halters.
> 
> Off to take my unruly youngsters out with their old fashioned slip leads before I make them fetch a big stick to beat them with, and show them what they could have had for their tea, if only I wasn't such a meanie.


Seriously, what IS the point of posts like this? With the last snide bit added in at the end?

Im not worried about slip leads, I dont need an alternative to slip leads, I simply dont use slip leads.

Can we clarify something here?
When members say I would not use ___ tool for ___ reasons it means that member would not use that tool for those reasons.

It does not mean any of the following:
- That the member judges those who use different tools.
- That the member loves their dog more or less than those who use different tools.
- That all those who use different tools are wrong and those who use other tools are right.
And on and on and on.

Seriously, why is the different tool thing such an issue?? I mean, does it bother you when people drive different cars? Choose different breeds? Have different tastes in food? No... so why would it matter so much that people choose to train and restrain their dogs differently? 
If someone elses different choices make you that uncomfortable, it might be worth examining what it is thats making you so uncomfortable instead of lashing out an the one doing things differently.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Guys...WHERE do you all live that getting a dog to the vets so that they can run a scanner over it to identify its owner is such a lengthy palaver?
> 
> I don't mean that in any way dismissively BTW, but I live on a edge of a small market town and getting a dog to a nearby vet for identification has never been an issue.
> 
> ...


Do vets in your area never close? Or do people never worry about being charged to see the vet? Or do they have all the time in the world to take lost dogs around to be scanned? Sometimes you just don't have time to search for owners, we found a dog in the park once, I had actually seen the owner as well, but then couldn't find the owner again once I had the dog. Had the dog had on a tag I could have phoned her. As I do actually have a job that I had to go back to I had to leave the dog with the Rangers.

Why are you putting up such a fight that people shouldn't have to tag their dogs, which makes it so much easier to return a dog?


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Um, no, I thought people might be interested in a new product, I found it quite interesting actually, someone I know with spaniels is trying it out on their dogs.
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> 
> Crikey, general sense of humour failure and paranoia alive and well!


How kind of you to be concerned for my general sense of humour failure and paranoia. 

Sorry for posting but I didn't understand the comments at the end of your originsl post.

Its quite obvious now there's more going on in this thread than I understand so I shall back out gracefully from this silly game with my failed sense of humour intact.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

What about folk who dont own animals, have no idea about microchips etc? Or where the nearest vet is - bit of a faff for them without a number to call on an id tag.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

One of the vets in my area wont deal with strays apart from to scan them for a chip.

With a legally compliant tag, the dog could be returned so much quicker with a lot less hassle for the one who finds it. Unless during business hours, i have no idea what i would do with a stray. I think i would just have to leave it wandering as i dont have the facilities to keep a strange dog overnight.

On topic though, im not worried about slip leads ( not sure why anyone would be tbh) but i would not use one, as i see no need for one in my life as a dog owner, and cant see how it would be of any benefit to either myself or my dog.

Normal fixed lead and collar, or harness and flexi for me.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Assuming for a minute that no decent owner would use a device...or no device...without knowing their dog and his/her reactions exceptionally well, I don't get the whole broohaha about the collar and ID tag.
> 
> MOST dogs these days are microchipped and EVERY vet, EVERY animal shelter and EVERY dog warden has a scanner so if, heaven forbid, the dog DOES go missing, dog & owner are easily identified. Surely that is safer and better than a hard to read ID tag with tiny, faded engraving?
> 
> The -'incidentally never enforced - dog ID rules date back to when there was no microchipping. Is anyone seriously saying that if they were to meet a stray dog who stands in front of them baring his teeth, they'd have a good old fumble with his collar and check his ID tag? Pfffffft....


It is still the law to have an identity tag on a collar.



Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Firstly, I think it was very kind of you to help these dogs.
> 
> But secondly...I'm not sure that you ultimately did those dogs a huge favour. One could argue that it actually encourages sloppy, negligent ownership. If I let my dog roam in the serene belief that should he get lost, I would always get him back without a hassle, that wouldn't do much to make me review my containment strategies.
> 
> Incidentally, I know a few of those dogs myself who are routinely out and about on their own. Each time I SWEAR the next time I won't yet again deliver it back home to hear a non-plussed "oh, sorry, he is such a scamperer! Little monkey, eh?". If I wouldn't feel so sorry for the dogs with their doodle-brained owners, I'd deliver them to the vet or the shelter and let the owner sweat buckets, but dogs can't pick their owners.


I will always be grateful that my dog had a disc on when she escaped. My sister was looking after her in Oxfordshire while we were on holiday in Sussex. She crawled under the gate and escaped into the town centre. My sister was distraught and was organising a search party when I had a phone call on my mobile from someone who had caught Candy and I was able to reunite them. It would have been a nightmare if she had been taken somewhere to be scanned, come up with a north of scotland address, assumption made that she had been rehomed and kept in a rescue and never got her back.



GingerRogers said:


> And why did you pick me to patronise prey tell Blitz. And mis read/quote. I said quite clearly every one is entitled to their own methods and tools.
> 
> My issue is with the childish taunts thrown at people who have 'different' standards to some posters. Cos different is good, same is boring, or we wouldnt get so many great debates would we
> 
> ...


Well, you are certainly miscronstruing my post. I was not picking on you or preying on you. I was unsure whether you meant that everyone should be educating everyone else who uses a different method or only those that you agree with or what. I merely intimated that whatever method works is the correct one, no need to educate anyone who is using a method that works. I know best what works for my dogs and SL knows what works best for her dogs.
The ID tag is a different matter but not what SLs post was about.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Who's worried about slip leads, you use them or you don't. My OH uses one when he runs Lou but that is for sheer ease of not having to stop his run to clip a lead on.



labradrk said:


> Totally agree with others re: the "collar getting trapped" argument. Bo's your typical HPR, pushing through all sorts of cover at speed, and never once has her collar or harness become trapped in anything. I'm not aware of that happening to anyone, for that matter.
> 
> I'm also sure that 'training' doesn't qualify as working.


I would be lying if I said I took mine out all the time with a collar on - very rarely that I don't put their collar on but occasionally I do. In those times I have them under close control as it is often just so I can take photos. But as I said - very rarely now as they have 3 day to day collars each - so no excuse.

Only 1 set of their collars don't have tags on and that is because they are their running collars; they have I.D on their x-backs, they are also used (collars) for swimming. However these collars get worn the most. They double up as house collars for when we have guests in. I.D for these collars will be arriving after I get married.

Mine manage to swim perfectly fine with harnesses on..


















As a fishermans daughter I can tell you that I have only heard of 1 occasion in the 7 years I went fishing with my Dad on the country lake at home where a dog was caught up. Not in line, not by his collar or harness (because both of which he wasn't wearing) - the people who ran the lake hadn't dredged it so he got his feet caught up in the lakes foliage and panicked then drowned.

As Smokeybear likes to say - nothing in life is risk free.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I must be a really boring dog owner. Lily has a hem and boo collar and lead with a bone name tag! Poor Lily.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Can't be bothered trailing through 11 pages.... but looking at recent comments.

Mine is rarely walked in a collar, I am one of these 'silly' people that do worry incase the collar did caught so if we're going to woodlands etc she goes in a harness... with a ID tag might I add  90% of her walks she is a harness, I prefer them.

My parents also use a slip lead for their lab but only now as she will walk nicely... might I add she also has a collar on  with a ID tag


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> If this was intended as a joke I am not getting the punchline.
> 
> Are you in all seriousness suggesting that a microchip is a less secure identification method than an ID tag attached to the collar by a flimsy little metal ring?
> 
> ...


My husband found a loose dog last year with no ID. Wandered around with it, knocked a few doors, nothing. Took it to the vets, they scanned, couldn't find a thing. They kept it til the end of the day, then it went to the pound.

Owners were eventually tracked down in the evening, turns out they lived 2 mins away from where hubby found the dog, but as the dog had no ID, and what turned out to be a FAILED microchip, the dog spent an unnecessary day in the pound and owners had to shell out the pound fee to get their dog back.

Easily avoided with some visible ID.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

BoredomBusters said:


> Do vets in your area never close? Or do people never worry about being charged to see the vet? Or do they have all the time in the world to take lost dogs around to be scanned? Sometimes you just don't have time to search for owners, we found a dog in the park once, I had actually seen the owner as well, but then couldn't find the owner again once I had the dog. Had the dog had on a tag I could have phoned her. As I do actually have a job that I had to go back to I had to leave the dog with the Rangers.
> 
> *Why are you putting up such a fight that people shouldn't have to tag their dogs, which makes it so much easier to return a dog?*


If you could refer me to the relevant post in which I stated that people SHOULD NOT put a collar and tag on their dog, I'd appreciate it because I'd request that a moderator could delete this post.

It is not what I said, but if that how people choose to interpret it, that is their prerogative.

Conversely, if I felt this strongly about dogs without collars and tags -owing to the fact that it is the law - I guess I would just perform citizens arrests when I found their hapless owners.

Yes, it is easier to reunite a dog with their owner when the dog's collar states their phone number. Yes, a chip could work its way out or migrate. Yes, a dog can strangle itself or a playmate whilst wearing a collar. Yes, a breakaway collar can prevent this, but it can breakaway when you don't want it to breakaway, also. Yes, there have also been reports that pets developed malignant tumours at the chip insertion site. Yes, some people don't own cars which makes it difficult to transport a lost dog to the vet. And yes most vets aren't open 24/7.

And, yes, definitly life for us, our pets, and even other peoples pets, is a risky endeavour, during which we are constantly required to make risk-benefit assessments on our or their behalf.

Are there any other blatantly obvious things that I have missed out?

If not, I am going to head up to SL and perform a citizens arrest on her, because I need to indulge my inner b*tch hyena and embroil myself into matters pertaining to her dogs which really are none of my business whatsoever.

And after that.....I am going to pick a pointless argument with Sweety. Why Sweety? She seems like a decent, caring owner- but that is the whole FUN, isn't it? And she must have said something, somewhere, which I could pull out of context, pervert for my own puerile purpose, and then make her feel disheartened, hurt and incredulous why someone would want to do this.

So I'm going to be busy, have a nice day


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

and people wonder why others get arsey with them, when concerns are met with mockery and sly digs................


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Some people really do like to argue for the sake of arguing 

To clarify, it is *law* that dogs wear a tag whilst in a public place..If you are caught there is a £5000 fine..

Just because people aren't always caught doesn't mean it is ok to flout the law. If someone wishes to preform a citizen's arrest then go for it...Can't see many taking kindly to that and actually complying mind, but if it makes you (general you) feel better then knock yourself out.

Wearing of collars by dogs: The Control of Dogs Order 1992

2. (1) Subject to paragraph (2) below, every dog while in a highway or in a place of public resort shall wear a collar with the name and address of the owner inscribed on the collar or on a plate or badge attached to it.

(2) Paragraph (1) above shall not apply to

(a)any pack of hounds,
(b)any dog while being used for sporting purposes,
(c)any dog while being used for the capture or destruction of vermin,
(d)any dog while being used for the driving or tending of cattle or sheep,
(e)any dog while being used on official duties by a member of Her Majestys Armed Forces or Her Majestys Customs and Excise or the police force for any area,
(f)any dog while being used in emergency rescue work, or
(g)any dog registered with the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association.

The Control of Dogs Order 1992


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> To clarify, it is *law* that dogs wear a tag whilst in a public place..If you are caught there is a £5000 fine..


Just a question. If a dog is taken to the pound because it has escaped/ran off whatever and there is no tag to identify the dog or where he/she lives.. when the owner goes to the pound the collect their dog, do they also get charged the £5k fine for their dog not having a tag on? Just wondering


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JenSteWillow said:


> Just a question. If a dog is taken to the pound because it has escaped/ran off whatever and there is no tag to identify the dog or where he/she lives.. when the owner goes to the pound the collect their dog, do they also get charged the £5k fine for their dog not having a tag on? Just wondering


Depends, each council will have it's own rulings ours state:

What happens when a stray dog is seized?
If your dog strays and is seized by a council dog warden you may be issued with a warning, a caution or a fixed penalty fine. You may even be prosecuted and fined up to £1,000.

The dog warden may also impose one or more control conditions designed to improve how you manage your dog.

If your dog is seized and you cannot be located, your dog will be taken to the council pound (or a pound operated by a third party on behalf of the council). If you have not claimed your dog within five days, or you cannot be identified or located, your dog may be put down or sold.

If you claim your seized dog within five days, you will have to pay for the cost of keeping your dog in the pound and any veterinary fees, as well as any fixed penalty imposed, before your dog will be released to you. If you do not pay the necessary sum within a period set by the council, your dog may be put down or sold.

Failure to ensure that your dog wears the appropriate collar identification is an offence which could result in a maximum fine of £1,000.

Collar tags are not needed for:

a dog which is a member of a pack of hounds
a dog being judged in a competition
a dog is being used for any sporting purposes, the capture or destruction of vermin or for the purpose of driving or tending sheep or cattle
If you do not have a valid licence
Keeping a dog without a valid licence may result in:

a warning
a formal caution
a fixed penalty or prosecution
a fine of up to £1,000
It is also an offence to take possession of a dog (whether you paid for it or not) before you have obtained a licence for it. You can be prosecuted for this offence and may be liable to a maximum fine of £1,000. The person who gave or sold you the dog is also guilty of an offence.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2014)

In the US all dogs are required to have a rabies tag so even if the dog is chipped with your info, you still have to have the up to date rabies vaccine info which needs to be updated every time your dog is re-vaccinated. 

Many of us have tag collars, collars with the sole purpose of hanging tags off of that the dog wears all the time. Usually with some sort of quick/emergency release for safety. 

The consequences for not being able to immediately prove your dog is UTD on rabies immunizations can be really bad. For example, if my dog bites someone on a long holiday weekend with no tags and I dont know where my paperwork is and I cant get a hold of the vet until 3 days later to confirm the dog is indeed vaccinated, youre looking at major repercussions. Not worth it. Mine dont always wear owner ID, but they have rabies tags on all the time.


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Depends, each council will have it's own rulings ours state:
> 
> What happens when a stray dog is seized?
> If your dog strays and is seized by a council dog warden you may be issued with a warning, a caution or a fixed penalty fine. You may even be prosecuted and fined up to £1,000.
> ...


Just had a nosey at our council and there's no detail at all of a fine you could get if your dog doesn't have ID.

_Identification

As a dog owner you are by law (Control of Dogs Order 1992) obliged to identify your dog by ensuring it wears a collar and tag at all times when on a highway or in a public place. This tag must carry details of your name and address.

Micro chipping is not a substitute for a dog tag, however, if your dog strays and loses its collar it is a good idea to have a microchip as backup. Micro chipping your pet is a permanent way of identifying it. Most vets offer a micro chipping service although costs may vary._

Then with regards to the pound it just says

_Before your dog leaves the kennels, you will be required to pay any kennelling and/or veterinary charges that have been incurred._

Sounds a bit soft, imo.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

JenSteWillow said:


> Just a question. If a dog is taken to the pound because it has escaped/ran off whatever and there is no tag to identify the dog or where he/she lives.. when the owner goes to the pound the collect their dog, do they also get charged the £5k fine for their dog not having a tag on? Just wondering


Depends on the Council as Meezy pointed out 

Ours state:

Stray dogs
Dogs should not be allowed to stray. Any dog found straying, or reported straying to xxx Council by a member of the public, will be collected and taken to the kennels where it will be held for seven days.

Before the dog can be returned to its owner a statutory fee of £25 must be paid to xxx Council and any other costs that may have been incurred (kennelling fee, vets fee, transportation costs).

A breakdown of the dog fees are as follows:

Dog fees	Amount
Prescribed fee (statutory)	£25 (No VAT)
Seizure fee	£10 + £2 VAT = £12
Administration charge	£8 + £1.60 VAT = £9.60 
Transfer to kennel	£12.83 + £2.57 VAT = £15.40
Veterinary treatment	As per account

It should be noted that the above costs do not include the cost of kennelling. When the dog is held at a boarding kennel, kennelling costs will have to be settled separately by you prior to release.

Lost dogs with no tags will be considered stray, so will be held for 7 days before rehoming.

----------------

If you are a repeat offender then the council will look at fining.
I know when my staffy went missing for a few hours it was the fact that she was tagged and chipped that meant it cost me nothing to get her back and on top of that we were reunited within 2 hours


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JenSteWillow said:


> Just had a nosey at our council and there's no detail at all of a fine you could get if your dog doesn't have ID.
> 
> _Identification
> 
> ...


Tbh I wish they were stricter about it here, so we are meant to chip, address tag and license our dogs, and it bloody annoys me when I see people without anything on them.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Nothing new about those double stop slip leads, been around for donkey's years. Lots use them with competing sports dogs (agility and the like). Often get them custom made with fleece padding and such.

Still not something I would personally use for exercising/working a dog for any lengthy period.

And as for the ID tag debate; mine always wear tags; slide on ones on their collars; though collars not used to attach the lead to.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Another concern or me with no collar or harness, just what would happen if there was a dog fight? Your dog might be the one being attacked, but might retaliate just how do you get dogs apart and keep them apart if they have no collars or harnesses on?


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

If I am reposting apologies.

My vet charges the owner if a stray dog is brought into their care. The stray dog is of course scanned and if micro chipped owner hopefully contacted. Surely my vet is not the only one who does this. Or though I could be wrong. The price is half the price of what the council pound charge, and I am thinking it is in the region of £50.

So in my opinion micro chipping and id tags really go hand in hand, which is why I have my full address on all tags in case the worse happens.

Slip leads... will leave that to be argued about!


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Tbh I wish they were stricter about it here, so we are meant to chip, address tag and license our dogs, and it bloody annoys me when I see people without anything on them.


I find it odd that each council will differ :confused1: On reading the page it says our council has 2 dog wardens... i thought that was a small ammount for the area the council covers! Oh and then the stray dog is taken to kennels which are under a different council :confused1: lol strange! Thanks for the info though  was just pondering!


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

bearcub said:


> It's the law.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you or I think it's stupid, outdated, not enforced etc. I think gantry speed cameras and variable speed restrictions on motorways are ridiculous, and as much as I'd like to, that doesn't mean I can just *drive at 90mph round the M25*.


I'm pretty sure it's not just legalities that would prevent you doing this...


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

PennyGSD said:


> I'm pretty sure it's not just legalities that would prevent you doing this...


:laugh: 9mph would be more realistic!


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

bearcub said:


> :laugh: 9mph would be more realistic!


Exactly what I thought when I first read it...


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Another concern or me with no collar or harness, just what would happen if there was a dog fight? Your dog might be the one being attacked, but might retaliate just how do you get dogs apart and keep them apart if they have no collars or harnesses on?


Coming from someone who has had to split up fights in the past, I grab then my the scruff on the back. And split them that way.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2014)

stuaz said:


> Coming from someone who has had to split up fights in the past, I grab then my the scruff on the back. And split them that way.


Meezey has rotties  Dont know about you, but I have tried to break up a fight between rottie-sized dogs (one was bigger actually) and though Im no slouch, and one of the dogs in question had plenty of loose skin to grab, he wriggled out of it way to easily for me to get any sort of useful grip on it. Collars and leads all the way for breaking up fights.

Also just wanted to comment on the issue of working dogs *while working* not needing ID. I dont know how it is in the UK, but in the US there are many venues where dogs are required by that sports rules to be totally naked while on course. Agility, lure coursing, barn hunt come to mind right off the top of my head, Im sure there are many more. And for some weird reason, dogs have to wear a collar in the obedience ring, but they are not allowed to have any tags on that collar. I never did get that rule  But anyway, its not just those retrievers who are special when it comes to the job requiring them to be naked 

But lets be real here, those working situations are mostly controlled situations with already trained dogs. Not the usual for the majority of dog owners. I guess I just dont see the danger or hardship of having to put a collar and an ID tag on my dogs.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Meezey has rotties  Dont know about you, but I have tried to break up a fight between rottie-sized dogs (one was bigger actually) and though Im no slouch, and one of the dogs in question had plenty of loose skin to grab, he wriggled out of it way to easily for me to get any sort of useful grip on it. Collars and leads all the way for breaking up fights.


I am not saying not to wear a collar (mine always do) and I think it's irresponsible not to however the question asked was how to break up a fight if there are no collars


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Do you know what? I am astounded that this thread has gone on and on and on. I've not read all the posts, so apologies to those I've missed who have posted constructively.

For those who thought I posted with any ulterior motive, you simply don't know me. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who exercise and train their gundogs without any form of ID at all, some microchipped, some not. The fact that I have posted photos on a pet forum, has singled me and my dogs out, a number of times. The simple reason I posted, I found the design of the slip leads interesting, and they are perhaps something I'd consider buying in the future, I'll wait to see how the person who posted about them initially gets on with them. I did post tongue in cheek following the other thread, where someone had found it appropriate to dredge through the forum for a photograph of one of my dogs with a taut lead, I mean, come on?

I don't have big powerful dogs, I don't have rescues, I currently have dogs that have been with me since puppyhood. All recall extremely well, I'd never say 100% since I don't believe there is such a thing, but considering my dogs recall and turn on the whistle pretty much all the time, and bring other dogs with them, I'd say I have them under pretty good control. In fact just a couple of weeks ago, I helped someone who had lost their rottie, when their dogs seemed to keep coming along to me when I was training.

Whilst taking some of the photographs I posted the other day, I had both youngsters off lead doing a bit of training and walking. I was approaching a blind bend, so had both at heel, when a guy walked round the corner, on the phone with two chocolate Labradors off lead, but they did have collars on. In the time it took him to tell whoever it was on the phone that he had other things to do, I had both my youngsters on lead, and shouted out to him that mine were friendly if he wanted to let them approach, I'd let mine off. The result was that Rhuna was attacked by his entire dog. He had absolutely no control over his dogs, never managed to get them on lead even, and gave a brief apology that his dog didn't like black dogs, which, considering his dog had half his face up Rhuna's posterior before it then turned on her front end, wasn't really much of an excuse. Whilst he was stumbling about getting his dogs to go the other way, my two recalled and went on absolutely fine, and thankfully Rhuna doesn't worry about these things.

Tonight, I will be taking one of them to the pub, with or without a collar. For those who have nothing better to do than worry whether my dogs have got a collar on, I suggest one of the latest FB games, they seem to take up a lot of time for some folk.

And just as an aside, thank God this wasn't a new comer, or someone alone or vulnerable subjected to pages of pointed comments. Oh wait, I am alone, and actually, have been quite ill this year, God forbid I actually bothered to read some of the things that people have posted about me!

Never mind eh, I'll stick to mi' dogs! And for anyone interested, the law regarding this subject is stated quite clearly here:

The Control of Dogs Order 1992


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Do you know what? I am astounded that this thread has gone on and on and on. I've not read all the posts, so apologies to those I've missed who have posted constructively.
> 
> For those who thought I posted with any ulterior motive, you simply don't know me. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who exercise and train their gundogs without any form of ID at all, some microchipped, some not. The fact that I have posted photos on a pet forum, has singled me and my dogs out, a number of times. The simple reason I posted, I found the design of the slip leads interesting, and they are perhaps something I'd consider buying in the future, I'll wait to see how the person who posted about them initially gets on with them. I did post tongue in cheek following the other thread, where someone had found it appropriate to dredge through the forum for a photograph of one of my dogs with a taut lead, I mean, come on?
> 
> ...


SL, I've lost count of how many threads/posts you have posted as a snide dig at me & my threads. People aren't stupid you know.

and that's all I'm saying on the matter.

.


----------



## Guest (Jul 18, 2014)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Do you know what? I am astounded that this thread has gone on and on and on. I've not read all the posts, so apologies to those I've missed who have posted constructively.
> 
> For those who thought I posted with any ulterior motive, you simply don't know me. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who exercise and train their gundogs without any form of ID at all, some microchipped, some not. The fact that I have posted photos on a pet forum, has singled me and my dogs out, a number of times. The simple reason I posted, I found the design of the slip leads interesting, and they are perhaps something I'd consider buying in the future, I'll wait to see how the person who posted about them initially gets on with them. I did post tongue in cheek following the other thread, where someone had found it appropriate to dredge through the forum for a photograph of one of my dogs with a taut lead, I mean, come on?
> 
> ...


Um, I don't really understand this post and how it relates to the thread  Your dogs are well trained, that's great, so's mine, but what's your point? That because they recall well there's no need for them to have ID on them?

This IS a pet forum. There seems to be some 'elite working dog' vibe on this forum, like working dogs are 'special' and don't need to abide by normal standards, but as far as I'm concerned, a dog is a dog. If working people choose to put their dogs at risk through not having ID or microchips, that's their decision, but quite frankly I think it's ridiculous.

As you point out, you're not a new member. You know full well that if you (general you) post on this forum, especially about something controversial like slip leads, there will be others who don't agree with you. Add to that your little dig at the end of your first post, and of course people are going to be riled up. So if you're feeling alone or ill, maybe think before you post.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> ,
> Never mind eh, I'll stick to mi' dogs! And for anyone interested, the law regarding this subject is stated quite clearly here:
> 
> The Control of Dogs Order 1992


Perhaps you need a read of your own link.

Just because your dogs are retrievers and you do some training with them - it doesn't make the working or sporting dogs!

If such was the case, half the dogs on this forum would excempt from wearing ID. Although having said that, even if they were, I can't imagine many other owners here having such disregard for their dogs safety or the law.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Do you know what? I am astounded that this thread has gone on and on and on. I've not read all the posts, so apologies to those I've missed who have posted constructively.


Oh come on SL, you were not born yesterday. You knew how your first post would be taken, that is why you put what you did 

Secondly, maybe if you had read all the posts you would have noticed that the 1992 act has been posted several times..you would also notice that no matter how many times you quote it it only covers dogs that are working at the time...Not popping to the pub, not going for a quick swim or running through hedges...

If you don't want to comply with the law then that is your choice, but it doesn't make it any less of a law just because you don't want to comply with it (or any other dog owner out there)...


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I have read the link, perhaps some need to read it a bit more? 

My dogs are trained to work, I train them when I walk them. If you want to go along to any gundog training class, whether there is one, two or more people there, you will see loads of dogs without collars or id on them, except perhaps microchips, which are, of course invisible. Because guess what, they are being trained to work, and may be put into the position where they are asked to retrieve through thick cover, or water, and the owners take the decision that they don't want to risk their dogs' welfare by having something that would snag. 

If I take them along to a social event, I do have collars for them, I have forgotten them in the past, I'm not perfect (although thank you to all those who obviously believe I should be). But really, this thread is just a reminder to me that there is a huge moral majority who have nothing better to do. 

There is an option to stick me on ignore, or simply not read my posts, please feel free to use either option, or simply carry on if you've nothing better to do, I'm off to work, and may walk my dogs later with or without their collars, depending on what training I plan to do with them.


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## Margelli (Jun 23, 2014)

Besides, with the 'working dog' thing, pretty sure it only applies when they are actually 'working'. 

I know Gamekeepers and Farmers who have very simple rope collars with ID tags on that they just pop on and off the dog when they have finished working and back into their kennels. I don't know about your area but there is a very real risk of theft around here.

Don't you dare try to act offended about this SL, you have shown a distinct disregard for the law and as a side effect, the safety of your dogs, and now you are 'astounded' by this thread. It beggars belief really. :nonod: What did you think we would do? Slowly clap our applause?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> Oh come on SL, you were not born yesterday. You knew how your first post would be taken, that is why you put what you did
> 
> Secondly, maybe if you had read all the posts you would have noticed that the 1992 act has been posted several times..you would also notice that no matter how many times you quote it it only covers dogs that are working at the time...Not popping to the pub, not going for a quick swim or running through hedges...
> 
> If you don't want to comply with the law then that is your choice, but it doesn't make it any less of a law just because you don't want to comply with it (or any other dog owner out there)...


I tell you what, you explain to my dogs, that they are simply training to work, not working, if you can get them to confirm in writing to me that they understand the difference, I will buy them pink diamante collars with sparkly tags


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

The only time I use a slip lead is, back in Bath I would walk Charlie up to the garage in the car park outside our house so he could have a rummage in there with me. He was really good and didnt pull, he just walked beautifully to heel next to me...if we were to go any further he'd be too excited and start to pull then, or if we wanted to see one of his friends around the front in the field I'd chuck it round his neck and go. 

I can see the appeal of a slip lead...there's something old fashioned and 'back to basics' when you just have a rope on your dog and they trot along side you. As I dont use SLs for walks, I just have a brown Wainwrights collar for Charlie and matching lead in dark brown which is still rustic and old fashioned looking but safe too!

I worry a lot about tags on dogs, mine are MC and have their life story on their collars in case, God forbid, they do run off or get lost, they have my name, address, mobile, my OHs number and they are still registered to my parents address, which isnt ideal...however, if they were to ring up my mum, she'd come and get them or contact me.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

The words you need to take account of are "every dog while in a highway or in a place of public resort"

Not if they are working or not 

Public resort: "a place which is open to members of the public (whether or not a charge or fee for entry is required by the
management of the premises and whether or not the management reserves the right to exclude individual members of the public therefrom)"


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

What an amazing thread. Not sure why slip leads should be controversial. If they suit then they are suitable if they do not then they are unsuitable. Horses for courses and the right tool for the job. What on earth is the problem.

The criticism of SL goes right over the top of my head and I certainly do not see the point or relevance of it to anything she has said on this thread.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I tell you what, you explain to my dogs, that they are simply training to work, not working, if you can get them to confirm in writing to me that they understand the difference, I will buy them pink diamante collars with sparkly tags


Really? :rolleyes5:

For someone that suggests they are happy with the choices she makes for her dogs, you aren't half defensive...
What your dogs think to the law is also irrelevant, what you think is irrelevant, what I think is irrelevant......*IT IS LAW. *


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> Really? :rolleyes5:
> 
> For someone that suggests they are happy with the choices she makes for her dogs, you aren't half defensive...
> What your dogs think to the law is also irrelevant, what you think is irrelevant, what I think is irrelevant......*IT IS LAW. *


Not on private property


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

rona said:


> Not on private property


We are not discussing private property in this thread. I have mentioned numerous times that the law applies to public areas.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Well, it's taken me some time but I've finally come to the end of this thread.

Just my 2 pen'th here.

My 2 currently don't have ID tags on their collars  as they've managed to lose them and I'll be changing my number/phone next month so have no intention of getting decent brass tags when I'll only have to get new ones next month anyway. I do, however, plan to get cheapy plastic ones for now. In the mean time I keep the dogs onlead. Yes, I know it's against the law and that I'm risking their safety, but it won't be for long.

With regard to slip leads: they're not something I'd use for my dogs, unless in an emergency, but I can see how they'd be useful for helping to restrain a lost dog.

SL I fail to believe you didn't foresee the outcome of this thread. I'm sorry but I've read too many of your threads now to know you're not innocent in your intentions and while I haven't read any prior thread about collars/tags/the lag thereof I wouldn't be surprised if you'd posted this thread to goad someone into reaction. You're not the only one who is alone and while you might be feeling under the weather it's an insult to those with chronic conditions to look for sympathy after posting a contraversial thread like this. I know
I, for one, really can't be bothered to post much if I'm feeling unwell.

This post isn't meant to be inflammatory or offensive and I apologise if anyone does take offense.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Do you know what? I am astounded that this thread has gone on and on and on. I've not read all the posts, so apologies to those I've missed who have posted constructively.
> 
> For those who thought I posted with any ulterior motive, you simply don't know me. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who exercise and train their gundogs without any form of ID at all, some microchipped, some not. The fact that I have posted photos on a pet forum, has singled me and my dogs out, a number of times. The simple reason I posted, I found the design of the slip leads interesting, and they are perhaps something I'd consider buying in the future, I'll wait to see how the person who posted about them initially gets on with them. I did post tongue in cheek following the other thread, where someone had found it appropriate to dredge through the forum for a photograph of one of my dogs with a taut lead, I mean, come on?
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear Rhuna was attacked and you've been ill SL, but you know that you have never come across on this forum as someone vulnerable, you are quite capable of giving as good as you get, and you too have some pretty strong and unweilding views.


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## Jp kp (Mar 14, 2013)

Ive seen collars break....... Flexi leads snap...... But never seen a slip lead fail!











Dont shoot!















Just saying...


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Jp kp said:


> Ive seen collars break....... Flexi leads snap...... But never seen a slip lead fail!
> 
> Dont shoot!
> 
> Just saying...


Really? not been round many slip leads then


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jp kp said:


> Ive seen collars break....... Flexi leads snap...... But never seen a slip lead fail!
> 
> Dont shoot!
> 
> Just saying...


I've seen a dog back out of one though because it was so loose


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> We are not discussing private property in this thread. I have mentioned numerous times that the law applies to public areas.


You might be but what about SL?


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Jp kp said:


> Ive seen collars break....... Flexi leads snap...... But never seen a slip lead fail!
> Dont shoot!
> Just saying...


Not shooting as I use them myself from time to time.

Slip leads can fail, if they are put on the wrong way they can seriously damage a dogs throat.

Even put on the right way - they can seriously damage.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2014)

Slip leads have their place. For example, I would not do rescue transport without a slip lead (or several), but they can and do fail for all the reasons already mentioned, user error, material failure, etc., etc. No piece of equipment is perfect.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

rona said:


> You might be but what about SL?


Nowhere has SL mentioned that she walks on private property.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

bearcub said:


> Nowhere has SL mentioned that she walks on private property.


Has she not?

It's what I've concluded from her postings.......maybe I'm wrong


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

rona said:


> Has she not?
> 
> It's what I've concluded from her postings.......maybe I'm wrong


No she hasn't not in this post or on the many other posts on the thread that prompted this thread.......


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

rona said:


> Has she not?
> 
> It's what I've concluded from her postings.......maybe I'm wrong


I'd think she probably would have kicked the dogs and owner off that attacked Rhuna when they were collarless if it was her own land maybe?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

BeauNoir said:


> I'd think she probably would have kicked the dogs and owner off that attacked Rhuna when they were collarless if it was her own land maybe?


Doesn't have to be her own land to be private does it? 

I worked on a farm that was private land. It had a footpath through it. I could have been on private land and been accosted by others out of control dogs

You can get permission to walk on private land


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

rona said:


> You might be but what about SL?


Yes, the moors out the back of her house is private property 
The pub is also a public place, unless of course the dogs will be going upstairs to the living quarters.


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

rona said:


> Doesn't have to be her own land to be private does it?
> 
> I worked on a farm that was private land. It had a footpath through it. I could have been on private land and been accosted by others out of control dogs
> 
> You can get permission to walk on private land


Still illegal. If it doesn't have clear signage, etc that it is private land and no unauthorised entry then it is classed as a public resort.

In the small likelihood it is entirely signposted, fenced etc and SL has written permission, then fair enough.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BeauNoir said:


> Still illegal. If it doesn't have clear signage, etc that it is private land and no unauthorised entry then it is classed as a public resort.
> 
> In the small likelihood it is entirely signposted, fenced etc and SL has written permission, then fair enough.


Feel free to quote me as I think Rona might have me on ignore lol

I'm sure if SL had on been on private land on all her walks ( only time she states she uses collar and lead is to go to shows) then she would have mentioned this in the first multiple page thread when no id being illegal was mentioned, and it would have been mentioned in this multiple page thread, as it would have made peoples concerns about legal requirements null and void.. So the first thread would not have continued  nor revisited in this thread......


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Well you all obviously know more than I do 

A property certainly doesn't have to have private property signs or fencing to be private around here 

As SL lives at the other end of the country and in a completely different environment then I may be way off.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

BeauNoir said:


> Still illegal. If it doesn't have clear signage, etc that it is private land and no unauthorised entry then it is classed as a public resort.


Can you show me where you got that info? 

Not being awkward here, I'm genuinely interested


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

rona said:


> Well you all obviously know more than I do
> 
> A property certainly doesn't have to have private property signs or fencing to be private around here
> 
> As SL lives at the other end of the country and in a completely different environment then I may be way off.


I lived near to SL a few years ago, most of the places we walked were owned/managed by Yorkshire Water or the council or other relevant authorities.

Public resort: a place which is open to members of the public (whether or not a charge or fee for entry is required by the
management of the premises and whether or not the management reserves the right to exclude individual members of the public therefrom).


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I have been out all day and come back to see this rubbish still going on. Don't you have anything better to do than attack a regular member who has probably also been out with her dogs all day. 

Unless someone wants to report her to the police it is actually not anyone's business whether she has collars and id tags on her dogs!
My collies used to go years at a time without tags as they seldom went off the farm and were forever ripping their tags off.
Current dogs have only lost one tag so I replaced that after a while. Lots of dogs do not have tags, it is not the end of the world though I think they are very useful if your dog does go missing - you are far more likely to get reunited.

When I used slip leads I put them on over the collars.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Found this

Naturenet: English Common Law
"Sometimes, people go onto private property, such as woodland, which is not apparently fenced off and where the owners do not seem to mind. The fact that there is no fence or no sign saying that the land is private does not mean that people can go there. Wandering on to farmers' fields or other places which are obviously private is clearly trespassing, but so is wandering over land which may not be so clearly private, if the public has no right of access".


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Blitz said:


> I have been out all day and come back to see this rubbish still going on. Don't you have anything better to do than attack a regular member who has probably also been out with her dogs all day.


Ohhhhhhh so if it was a new member then they should be reprimanded for braking the law, but because it's a regular member they are above the law... Do as I say not as I do, I get it...


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I have been out all day and come back to see this rubbish still going on. Don't you have anything better to do than attack a regular member who has probably also been out with her dogs all day.
> 
> Unless someone wants to report her to the police it is actually not anyone's business whether she has collars and id tags on her dogs!
> My collies used to go years at a time without tags as they seldom went off the farm and were forever ripping their tags off.
> ...


Too ruddy hot here to take the dog out or I can assure you I'd be out


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Blitz said:


> I have been out all day and come back to see this rubbish still going on. Don't you have anything better to do than attack a regular member who has probably also been out with her dogs all day.


No one forced you to read it dear. If you think it is rubbish then don't click on it :yikes:

Attacks? Are you reading the same thread? No one has attacked anyone on this thread (there has been a touch of flaming by the op tho )

It's too hot here for me to have been out with my dog all day, I am leaving that until later. So no, I don't have anything better to do than to (shock horror) reply to an ongoing thread :ciappa:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

rona said:


> Too ruddy hot here to take the dog out or I can assure you I'd be out


We don't do 'hot' here. It has been a lovely day here, about as hot as it gets but still wore a coat. We had a little holiday day - very rare.

Maybe it is your excessive heat that is causing all the bad temper and nastiness. 
If Stormy thai thinks some of the posts are not attacking SL I dread to think how awful an attack would actually be.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Blitz said:


> If Stormy thai thinks some of the posts are not attacking SL I dread to think how awful an attack would actually be.












Please point out these attacks, I am obviously missing something very important 
If you think there have been attacks then report the posts rather than belittling people :thumbdown:


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Crikey. 17 pages!

I am obsessive about my dogs' ID.

As some of you may know from other threads, my dogs have collars with my mobile phone number embroidered on them, as well as two 'hanging' tags on the collars. I admit it - I have a thing about it!

Even so, I'm not going to start bashing SL for her choices re her own dogs. She clearly stated that as they go in water, she worries the collars and/or tags might snag or catch etc. Given that recently I read that someone on another forum tragically lost their dog when that exact thing happened, it seems to me that maybe SL is being sensible in this regard...


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Crikey. 17 pages!
> 
> I am obsessive about my dogs' ID.
> 
> ...


But isn't it the water that's dangerous rather than the collar?

Not being facetious, it's just I'm really careful about where the dogs swim or paddle because of the inherent danger of water.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

It's not the choice to not wear tags that is the issue, I have stated a couple of times that SL can do as she wishes in that regard...it was the ridiculing of others opinions (oh the irony) and the constant jabs about her dogs being above the law because they work on occasions.

Without either of those this thread wouldn't have gone the way it did.
All that had to be said was yes I know it's law and it is risk I am willing to take...but instead we get, my dogs work so they don't require tags...and something about if the dogs agreed with the law then she would put them in sparkly collars...all un-necessary, all flaming, and then acts all put out because people reacted in exactly the way that was expected...

:rolleyes5:


It's actually quite funny in a people watching kind of way.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

bearcub said:


> But isn't it the water that's dangerous rather than the collar?
> 
> Not being facetious, it's just I'm really careful about where the dogs swim or paddle because of the inherent danger of water.


I only know that in the very sad case I recently read about, the owner *seemed* to be saying that it was a combination of the water and other factors.

One can't always see, presumably, what is under the surface of the water - something can be there that a dog collar can snag on.

Just my personal view, but I've always found SL to be one of the nicer members of PF and certainly extremely helpful and supportive to anyone for instance who wants to raw feed, or that has the same breeds and needs advice.

I also feel that ***if*** this thread was in any way a reaction to that other thread, who can blame her  Another forum member actually went to the trouble of spending goodness knows how long hunting out a picture of SL's dogs - really uncalled for, in my humble opinion.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Jp kp said:


> Ive seen collars break....... Flexi leads snap...... But never seen a slip lead fail!
> 
> Dont shoot!
> 
> Just saying...


I've seen plenty of dogs slip a choke chain or slip leash. All they have to do is put their head down when it's loose and it slides right off. My collie was a bloody master of it so half checks all the way here. I've also seen them snap. Just like I've seen regular leashes and collars snap. No piece of equipment is infallible.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Crikey. 17 pages!
> 
> I am obsessive about my dogs' ID.
> 
> ...


See, I get why someone might take a collar off temporarily for a dog to swim. But that aside there is no excuse for a dog not to have a collar with a legally compliant ID tag in public. Training doing a few retrieves isn't 'working' (else the vast majority of dogs who play with their dogs are 'working dogs') thus exemptions do not apply.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

labradrk said:


> See, I get why someone might take a collar off temporarily for a dog to swim. But that aside there is no excuse for a dog not to have a collar with a legally compliant ID tag in public. Training doing a few retrieves isn't 'working' (else the vast majority of dogs who play with their dogs are 'working dogs') thus exemptions do not apply.


Yes. Rosie swims virtually every day through the Summer and I always take off her harness and collar before she goes into the water.

Once she's out and given herself a good shake, I put them back on.


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

rona said:


> Can you show me where you got that info?
> 
> Not being awkward here, I'm genuinely interested


I'll have a look for the legal definition of public resort but it is essentially any area of private land that allows access to either paying or unpaying people who are not the owners without having to get expressed permission.

So any farmers field that has a long standing of being open to the public is classed as a public resort.

So, every time you go to like a dog show on a private field, that field becomes a public resort so although it is a private field, your dog still has to wear a collar and tag except when working (so the dogs doing displays can remove their collar whilst displaying and replace straight after).

I probably didn't explain that brilliantly, i'll have a look for the legal definition for you.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Just my personal view, but I've always found SL to be one of the nicer members of PF and certainly extremely helpful and supportive to anyone for instance who wants to raw feed, or that has the same breeds and needs advice.
> 
> I also feel that ***if*** this thread was in any way a reaction to that other thread, who can blame her  *Another forum member actually went to the trouble of spending goodness knows how long hunting out a picture of SL's dogs - really uncalled for, in my humble opinion.*


I agree with the bolded, it was silly in my opinion.

But none of this is personal to SL :nonod: it's just a disagreement on one aspect of dog ownership, there'll be other threads where someone else will be in the 'firing line' so to speak. It's just the way of a forum.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

bearcub said:


> *But none of this is personal to SL* :nonod: it's just a disagreement on one aspect of dog ownership, there'll be other threads where someone else will be in the 'firing line' so to speak. It's just the way of a forum.


No, that was EXACTLY what it was. A largely & purely personal witch hunt. A good opportunity to sock it to a fellow member against whom one holds a personal grudge.

Nobody is that devoted to upholding "the law". Or they wouldn't have any time to sit on forums. They'd be out there screaming "it's a 30 speed limit, you ba***rds!" at all the boy racers zooming through all our towns and villages. Nobody really minds or cares whether someone elses dog wears a collar, no collar, no tag or 6 tags as long as the dog is under the supervison and control of the owner.

It was intended to be deliberately hurtful. Not that hard to do, is it? For every dog owner their dog is their achilles heel and ill concealed allegations of being negligent and careless will sting. At least a bit. So bullseye!

Not sure what it says about SL and her decison to walk her dogs how she sees fit. If she has any sense she'll be sitting there with popcorn, a glass of wine whilst slapping her thigh in unbridled mirth when reading the thread.

It does, however, say quite a few things about the decency of others. Forums do attract mean people. Who enjoy being mean.


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> Not sure what it says about SL and her decison to walk her dogs how she sees fit. If she has any sense she'll be sitting there with popcorn, a glass of wine whilst slapping her thigh in unbridled mirth when reading the thread.
> 
> It does, however, say quite a few things about the decency of others. Forums do attract mean people. Who enjoy being mean.


Lol! It's SL we're talking about.... It'll be single malt and popcorn 

Or it better be, otherwise I'll be very disappointed


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I can't speak for anyone else, but my posts have certainly not been personal, nor have they been part of a witch hunt.
I have merely responded to posts on this thread.

Why is it that as soon as some disagree with something and take time to try to explain why they disagree it then gets twisted into a witch hunt? It is perfectly acceptable for a group of people to disagree with a minority and not be part of any so called hunt.

I did not agree with a poster in another thread digging up a picture, that was a low blow IMO. But just because one person went a bit too far doesn't mean that everyone that disagree's with SL (or anyone that chooses to brag about flouting the law) is in cahoots..

This is a forum, people disagree all the time...Heck, groups of people disagree all the time, that alone does not a witch hunt make.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> No, that was EXACTLY what it was. A largely & purely personal witch hunt. A good opportunity to sock it to a fellow member against whom one holds a personal grudge.
> 
> Nobody is that devoted to upholding "the law". Or they wouldn't have any time to sit on forums. They'd be out there screaming "it's a 30 speed limit, you ba***rds!" at all the boy racers zooming through all our towns and villages. Nobody really minds or cares whether someone elses dog wears a collar, no collar, no tag or 6 tags as long as the dog is under the supervison and control of the owner.
> 
> ...


We'll have to agree to disagree there, but that's forums for you


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> No, that was EXACTLY what it was. A largely & purely personal witch hunt. A good opportunity to sock it to a fellow member against whom one holds a personal grudge.
> 
> Nobody is that devoted to upholding "the law". Or they wouldn't have any time to sit on forums. They'd be out there screaming "it's a 30 speed limit, you ba***rds!" at all the boy racers zooming through all our towns and villages. Nobody really minds or cares whether someone elses dog wears a collar, no collar, no tag or 6 tags as long as the dog is under the supervison and control of the owner.
> 
> ...


Nothing i have posted was a personal attack to SL, i believe she is a great member of the forum and i love seeing pictures of her dogs. The majority of people i saw and myself were just trying to point out exactly what the law was as (I am sure SL would agree slightly here) some of her posts could be misconstrued as all working dogs do not have to wear collars and tags at all, which we of course know isn't correct so myself and others wanted to set the record straight.

To be fair, i have had a go at people in my office who make light of speeding, it isn't 'just speeding', it is illegal, it is wrong and it deserves to be pulled up. No, I don't go looking for it but if someone decided to bring it to my attention then i will say something about it. In the same way I made my nephew march back into Tesco and pay for the 2 jelly sweets he stole.  it may be 2 jelly sweets and Tesco may have said they couldn't ring them in anyway but I made him apologise because it is illegal.

I believe the only person who has been downright and overtly rude on this thread is yourself.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Crikey, I go to the pub (with a dog) and look what happens! 

PS Zasa enjoyed the pub and got a lot of fusses, both her and Rhuna had a fab training/exercise run this afternoon, and swam a huge distance into one of the local reservoirs. The oldies had a good run at the back of the house, we're all now fine, settled down for the evening, and more importantly, I have a bottle of red at room temperature


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Crikey, I go to the pub (with a dog) and look what happens!
> 
> PS Zasa enjoyed the pub and got a lot of fusses, both her and Rhuna had a fab training/exercise run this afternoon, and swam a huge distance into one of the local reservoirs. The oldies had a good run at the back of the house, we're all now fine, settled down for the evening, and more importantly, I have a bottle of red at room temperature


It IS amazing what can happen. You started this thread and then went to the pub, apparently for two days, and come home to find this!

I marvel at your innocence.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Sweety said:


> It IS amazing what can happen. You started this thread and then went to the pub, apparently for two days, and come home to find this!
> 
> I marvel at your innocence.


Obviously not wearing a collar. After a two day bender when you pass out face down in your own sick the last thing you want is to be carted off to the vet to be scanned.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Sweety said:


> It IS amazing what can happen. You started this thread and then went to the pub, apparently for two days, and come home to find this!
> 
> I marvel at your innocence.


Really? Why?

You don't know me, or my dogs, so why so cynical?

Never mind, I have *real life* friends who know me, and know that actually, this whole diatribe on this forum is a big crock.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2014)

Uh... can someone explain to me how this can be a witch hunt thread against SL if SL was the one who started the thread?

To be clear, Im against witch hunts of all kinds, I am friends with many witches (and bitches for that matter) and though some (usually residents of Salem Massachusetts) would argue that they are vermin and need to be exterminated, Im against hunting in general. Plus Im vegetarian (I feel the need to include that on any hunting thread. Oh, wait, this isnt a hunting thread. Oh dear Im digressing....)

Okay so back to topic. I dont know SL that well, (though I enjoy reading her thoughts on squarish wolfy dogs and teacup velociraptors), but Im pretty sure shes not a witch. Nor do I think any of the other posters on here are either. (And even if any of us were, I object to hunting of witches). 

I do think some of us may like kicking the ant pile to see all the ants rush out. Hey, I do too. But when you do that, you really cant complain about the subsequent ant bites


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> *No, that was EXACTLY what it was. A largely & purely personal witch hunt. *A good opportunity to sock it to a fellow member against whom one holds a personal grudge.
> 
> Nobody is that devoted to upholding "the law". Or they wouldn't have any time to sit on forums. They'd be out there screaming "it's a 30 speed limit, you ba***rds!" at all the boy racers zooming through all our towns and villages. Nobody really minds or cares whether someone elses dog wears a collar, no collar, no tag or 6 tags as long as the dog is under the supervison and control of the owner.
> 
> ...


Well, my post certainly wasn't meant as part of a witch hunt. Why would it be when I plainly state that currently, my dogs don't wear tags, either?  Yes, SL is a valuable, knowledgeable forum member, and I always sit up and take notice of her posts when it comes to certain areas of pet care - especially those about dog food and breeding (not that I have any intention of breeding, but I do admit to a forum bloodlust and, as such, occasionally venture into the Breeding forum to watch the trolls being given a damn good send off  ).

However, over in General it's an altogether different matter. I'm afraid, after reading a couple of threads started by her, I seen a completely different side to SL, and not one I particularly like. Enough to put her on ignore - no. I have to be REALLY, REALLY p!$$ed off at someone to stick them on ignore 

I still don't know what this other thread is, that's being alluded to, but it's certainly no surprise to me that there's a thread prior to this one that runs along the same kind of course, bringing up (from what I can gather) the same kind of argument. She's done it before in General chat.



Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I only know that in the very sad case I recently read about, the owner *seemed* to be saying that it was a combination of the water and other factors.
> 
> One can't always see, presumably, what is under the surface of the water - something can be there that a dog collar can snag on.
> 
> ...


Bang out of order, I totally agree, but as I haven't read the thread in question, I can't comment further.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Really? Why?
> 
> You don't know me, or my dogs, so why so cynical?
> 
> Never mind, I have *real life* friends who know me, and know that actually, this whole diatribe on this forum is a big crock.


I don't need to know you or your dogs.

I'm responding to your post. You started this thread two days ago and, from what you're saying, you've been in the pub and haven't read it until tonight?

Now you will forgive me if I find that a little incredible.

And, diatribe? Reminder, you started this thread.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Sweety said:


> I don't need to know you or your dogs.
> 
> I'm responding to your post. You started this thread two days ago and, from what you're saying, you've been in the pub and haven't read it until tonight?
> 
> ...


Started the [purposely antagonist] thread but didn't want any responses...duh!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Sweety said:


> I don't need to know you or your dogs.
> 
> I'm responding to your post. You started this thread two days ago and, from what you're saying, you've been in the pub and haven't read it until tonight?
> 
> ...


Um, I have a full time job, and I also have a business. I also have been to the pub tonight, if you want me to ask a friend to join the forum to confirm, I can do, I took Zasa, just for info, without her collar (shame on me) but then Pip, the pub dog, doesn't wear a collar either, I mean, the shame! At least we can share it!!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

labradrk said:


> Started the [purposely antagonist] thread but didn't want any responses...duh!


In your view, I was actually, genuinely interested in the design of the slip leads. But then another person who knows b*gga all about me, posting what they *think* about me, go for it


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Really? Why?
> 
> You don't know me, or my dogs, so why so cynical?
> 
> Never mind, I have *real life* friends who know me, and know that actually, this whole diatribe on this forum is a big crock.


Why if you don't care what people think of you ( your own words over and over again), if you really couldn't give a fiddlers why keep responding? Why start the thread? You've done it a few times now when threads have died opened a new thread then plead innocence when people bite back? Bit like sticking your hand in the fire then crying when you get burnt?


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I also have been to the pub tonight, if you want me to ask a friend to join the forum to confirm


Would you mind ? I've got a fiver on at Ladbrookes at 100-1 that somebody joins PetForums tonight with the username "Sleeping_Lion_Was_At_The_Pub_Tonight". I nearly went each way with "Sleeping_Lion_Was_At_The_Pub_Yesterday" or "Sleeping_Lion_Was_At_The_Pub_Tomorrow" but the odds put me off. Sadly I haven't been to the pub tonight. I'm like this all the time.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

BeauNoir said:


> I believe the only person who has been downright and overtly rude on this thread is yourself.


LOL! You ought to consider a career as a comedian - you'd be fab!

Nonetheless, you are right. My reply to BoredomBusters was not cool. Never mind non-sequiteur to what s/he actually said. So I apologized in private. Best we can do when we screw up, isn't it? Think "bugger, what was I thinking?!", say sorry and hope the other is gracious enough to accept it. S/he was.

Nothing wrong with arguing and disagreeing. But there is never a need to hit below the belt.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

diefenbaker said:


> Would you mind ? I've got a fiver on at Ladbrookes at 100-1 that somebody joins PetForums tonight with the username "Sleeping_Lion_Was_At_The_Pub_Tonight". I nearly went each way with "Sleeping_Lion_Was_At_The_Pub_Yesterday" or "Sleeping_Lion_Was_At_The_Pub_Tomorrow" but the odds put me off. Sadly I haven't been to the pub tonight. I'm like this all the time.


Make it Sleeping Lion was at the pub on a Friday night, and you'd pretty much have odds on!!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> No, that was EXACTLY what it was. A largely & purely personal witch hunt. A good opportunity to sock it to a fellow member against whom one holds a personal grudge.
> 
> Nobody is that devoted to upholding "the law". Or they wouldn't have any time to sit on forums. They'd be out there screaming "it's a 30 speed limit, you ba***rds!" at all the boy racers zooming through all our towns and villages. Nobody really minds or cares whether someone elses dog wears a collar, no collar, no tag or 6 tags as long as the dog is under the supervison and control of the owner.
> 
> ...


Funnily enough, I drive a works vehicle, which is tracked. Was chatting with a friend tonight, and it's amazing how many *law abiding* citizens there aren't. Try driving at 30mph in a 30mph zone.



BeauNoir said:


> I'd think she probably would have kicked the dogs and owner off that attacked Rhuna when they were collarless if it was her own land maybe?


What? I wouldn't kick anyone's dog? It wasn't my own land, the person had indicated their dogs were fine, after sticking their nose up Rhuna's @rse, the dog then went on for a full have a go, and not a sort it out type of thing. The guy had b*gga all control of his dogs, I recalled Rhuna and Zasa and went on leaving him to get his dogs under control.


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> What? I wouldn't kick anyone's dog? It wasn't my own land, the person had indicated their dogs were fine, after sticking their nose up Rhuna's @rse, the dog then went on for a full have a go, and not a sort it out type of thing. The guy had b*gga all control of his dogs, I recalled Rhuna and Zasa and went on leaving him to get his dogs under control.


Kick OFF as in, if it was your land as someone was trying to suggest, you would make them leave. Not physically kick the dog.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

BeauNoir said:


> Kick OFF as in, if it was your land as someone was trying to suggest, you would make them leave. Not physically kick the dog.


I wasn't trying to suggest it was SLs land but possibly private land


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> In your view, I was actually, genuinely interested in the design of the slip leads. But then another person who knows b*gga all about me, posting what they *think* about me, go for it


Ahh, see if you had just wrote the first bit of your post, then I bet you wouldn't have got all the responses you have. But you wrote this....

"Off to take my unruly youngsters out with their old fashioned slip leads before I make them fetch a big stick to beat them with, and show them what they could have had for their tea, if only I wasn't such a meanie."

Which is purposely antagonistic. You obviously wanted some kind of reaction by posting that comment which you then got.

Then people moved onto the the point of a dog having appropriate ID on. You believe that the law does not apply to you because your dogs are "training". Well, I would imagine a good majority of us on here do some form of training with our dogs every day - does this make us all exempt from the law? or is your training somehow different because you are doing a few retrieves with "gundogs", again like millions of dog owners do every day?


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2014)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> In your view, I was actually, genuinely interested in the design of the slip leads. But then another person who knows b*gga all about me, posting what they *think* about me, go for it


I dont know you personally SL, but I know from your posts that you are intelligent, articulate, perceptive, with a good grasp of reading comprehension and forum dynamics.

I dont believe for one minute that your OP was solely about interest in these new slip leads and frankly I find it rather insulting that you think forum members are stupid enough to buy that line.

Use your very capable skills and read what you wrote:


Sleeping_Lion said:


> Off to take my unruly youngsters out with their old fashioned slip leads before I make them fetch a big stick to beat them with, and show them what they could have had for their tea, if only I wasn't such a meanie.


Thats a dig if there ever was one. You are too smart for me to think otherwise. That wasnt an attempt to diffuse something with humor, that was a deliberate attempt to incite a reaction. You deliberately kicked the hornets nest. Well, when you do that, they come out and sting 

Basically, some of us like and use slip leads, some of us dont particularly like how slip leads tighten and prefer not to use them. I really dont see the issue.


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