# Seriously ill rat



## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Baldrick is very very poorly, he is gasping for breath and cant stand, hes ice cold and his breathing sounds rattly and horrible. We rushed him to the vet whos given him an injection of Baytril and one to help strenghthen his heart and lungs and hes given me oral baytril to give him "if hes still alive tonight". I dont know if theres anything I can do for him other than keep him warm but if any rat people have any other suggestions please let me know. Healing thoughts for him too please anyone who reads this.


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

noooo! oh no poor little thing! I really hope he pulls through 

best of luck hun, thinking of you today.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

aw mate thats awful poor lil man  mine have that its a form of respiratory disease, myco usually. mine are all ill too  when they start gasping though thats when I pts


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

sending you both love from us


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

Oh dear, poor little thing...can you get any porridge with soy or baby cereal into him? Just wondering if you can get him to eat something runny and yummy it may help keep his strength up 
Keeping him warm and quiet and well fed are the best things you can do for him while the medicine is taking effect.
Thinking healing thoughts for your little one.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Argent said:


> Oh dear, poor little thing...can you get any porridge with soy or baby cereal into him? Just wondering if you can get him to eat something runny and yummy it may help keep his strength up
> Keeping him warm and quiet and well fed are the best things you can do for him while the medicine is taking effect.
> Thinking healing thoughts for your little one.


Thanks for the suggestion but hes barely drinking I dont think hes able to eat anything yet. If he perks up a bit I'll get some into him.


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## myzoo (Jan 13, 2010)

oh no! iam so sorry to hear about baldrick im not sure what you can do apart from keep him walm and cosy and as comfortable as possible and hes already had the baytril this might sound daft but make sure nobody smokes sprays any air freshners ect anywere in the house whilst he is ill and wipe all surfaces down with a dampcloth to remove any dust in the rat room iam sending lots of healing vibes for your little man i hope he gets better soon hugs from me and the squishies xxxx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Nobody smokes in the house and we have no air freshners as Im allergic to them. Hes eaten a little bit of mashed banana which I didnt expect.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Thats a great sign! I have no idea if it will work but you could try warming a towel and wrapping him in that? Am sorry if this is a dumb question....but could he have something stuck in his throat? Am hoping he gets better whatever it is! xx


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

Brilliant sign! The sugars in the banana might perk him up!!! :thumbup:
With helping him drink, would some watered down fruit juice tempt him? 
Other tempting foods might include cooked pasta, boiled chicken and peas if he's up for it later.
I really do hope he recovers. Is he very old?


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Could you not get him some kitten milk? Would that not have sugars in it? 

Awwwww, I hope he gets better.

Guinea pigs say wheeeeek wheeeek get better Baldrick!!


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Hes a year old (roughly as he was adopted so Im not 100% sure) Hes walking a bit around the cage and the others are very worried about him and trying to keep him warm. Hes drinking loads now, and Im going to give him some yoghurt and maybe some more nana later. Hes still not out of the woods but hes a lot better than he was. Not sure about the kitten milk,weve got some in but Im worried about giving it to him in case it makes him poorly.


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

If you're unsure then don't feed it - just make sure he has loads of scrummy tempting easy to digest foods. That's good news that he's perked up  Try him with something carby for a bit more energy, like some wholemeal bread or cooked pasta :thumbup:


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Stay positive  xx


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## Yorkshire_Rose (Aug 5, 2009)

How the little guy doing?

You can also try feeding him

Tuna
Eggs
Rice Pudding

Ive got some puppy formula here aswel which all my rats love


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Hes still with us, the other rats are cuddling up to him and keeping him warmer than I could, they seem to know something is wrong with him. hes had some yoghurt and drunk quite a lot and he wasnt keen on the Baytril when I gave it to him.


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## myzoo (Jan 13, 2010)

hi hows baldrik doing i hope he is feeling a bit better and iam glad the other ratties are taking care of him hopfully if you can keep getting food down him he should hopfully find the strength stay possitive and try not to show him your worried because he will pick up on it i know its hard but we all know you are doing your very best he is in the best place he is home with his loving mommy and rattie freinds good luck and lots more healing vibes for baldrik lots of cuddles for you and him from me and the squishes xxxx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Hes still with us and his eyes look less pained if that makes sense, his hairless brothers have cuddled up to him all night in a blanket that I out in for him, I dont want to get too hopeful but he does look slightly better today.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

aw poor Baldrick i hope he gets better soon, i think rats are such great little animals they way they care for each other like that....its so sweet


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

Baytril's the icky stuff unfortunately! Now if he needed Metacam for anything, it'd be a different story! According to Hugo and my mum's dog Oscar, metacam's the nummiest!
I'm glad he seems to be improving slowly, at least for now. I hope he continues to recover, sounds like you and his cage-bros are doing everything you can for him  *tummykisses for Baldrick*


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## myzoo (Jan 13, 2010)

thedogsmother said:


> Hes still with us and his eyes look less pained if that makes sense, his hairless brothers have cuddled up to him all night in a blanket that I out in for him, I dont want to get too hopeful but he does look slightly better today.


 Hi of course it makes sense i know what you mean you can see the heavyness in their eyes when ill kind of sleepy looking its hard to explain that look but yes i know what you mean.Iam glad he is looking a bit better i will continue to send all the healing vibes i have untill he is 100% better hugs and scritches for baldrik my sqishies send you lots of kisses hope he continues to improve


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Well he is up and walking around the cage (all be it slowly), hes had his Baytril and hes now getting rid of the icky taste with mashed nana, he has lost so much weight since yesterday but hes active and that horrible heaving breathing has stopped although his chest still sounds terrible. Dont click on this video if your easily upset but this was how bad his breathing was yesterday, if he keeps improving at this rate though I will be very pleased, hes already started licking again (hes normally a very licky rat).
Picture005-2.mp4 video by thedogsmother - Photobucket


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Massive ((((hugs)))) & healing vibes for Baldric xxxx
Cleo is currently on Baytril for pneumonia & I have been mixing it in with a blob of Beaphar malt paste & giving it to her on a teaspoon, it is also good for building up sick rats that have lost weight.Once he's eating properly try making up this Fancy Rats | Information | Feeding to Support the Immune System to aid his recovery & also get some Dr. Squiggles either a water soluble one or one to sprinkle on food


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> Massive ((((hugs)))) & healing vibes for Baldric xxxx
> Cleo is currently on Baytril for pneumonia & I have been mixing it in with a blob of Beaphar malt paste & giving it to her on a teaspoon, it is also good for building up sick rats that have lost weight.Once he's eating properly try making up this Fancy Rats | Information | Feeding to Support the Immune System to aid his recovery & also get some Dr. Squiggles either a water soluble one or one to sprinkle on food


Thanks for the tips I will look into it in a bit when a certain kitten has woken up and allowded me to use my other hand. Where do you get the malt paste and Dr Squiggles?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Thanks for the tips I will look into it in a bit when a certain kitten has woken up and allowded me to use my other hand. Where do you get the malt paste and Dr Squiggles?


If she's too much trouble I can relieve you of her
Malt paste can be got at [email protected], its marketed for ferrets but I let them have it as a very occasional treat as they go mad for it but its high in calories
Here's a link for Dr Squiggles
Medication Cabinet : ratRations.com, Rat food, base mixes and herbs


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

The Rat Warehouse seems to be the general place for all your rattie needs, I don't know if they'll be able to deliver quick enough though.


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> aw mate thats awful poor lil man  mine have that its a form of respiratory disease, myco usually. mine are all ill too  when they start gasping though thats when I pts


Myco doesn't come on suddenly like this - myco is a chronic illness that affects a rat all it's life. Sudden gasping and these symptoms is pneumonia, much more serious, and therefore it's really great news to hear he's survived it, as I've only ever had one rat survive pneumonia.

I'd keep an eye on the others, as there are some nasty viruses doing the rounds of which pneumonia is a symptom - if everyone else is ok though you shouldn't need to quarantine.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> Myco doesn't come on suddenly like this - myco is a chronic illness that affects a rat all it's life. Sudden gasping and these symptoms is pneumonia, much more serious, and therefore it's really great news to hear he's survived it, as I've only ever had one rat survive pneumonia.
> 
> I'd keep an eye on the others, as there are some nasty viruses doing the rounds of which pneumonia is a symptom - if everyone else is ok though you shouldn't need to quarantine.


This is very worrying because his brother Pie is now showing the breathing symptoms, although not as bad as Baldrick and his chest doesnt sound clicky like Baldricks did. None of the other rats seem affected I can only think that Bitsy might have picked up a virus when he was at the vets, but Bitsy is fine.. Do I have to get Baytril from a vets as the vet only gave me enough for one rat and I think Im going to need more.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Myco doesn't come on suddenly like this - myco is a chronic illness that affects a rat all it's life. Sudden gasping and these symptoms is pneumonia, much more serious, and therefore it's really great news to hear he's survived it, as I've only ever had one rat survive pneumonia.
> 
> I'd keep an eye on the others, as there are some nasty viruses doing the rounds of which pneumonia is a symptom - if everyone else is ok though you shouldn't need to quarantine.


Mine have had myco for months and had two lots of meds. Eventually it can reach the lungs and cause them to gasp and thats when I have put mine to sleep. I have had one with pneumonia and his did come on suddenly but in the end its the same symptoms. I find most vets have no clue about rats so I go to a rabbit vet who also sees the rat rescue rats near me.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Just to add the hairless boys were badly bred as apparently it was an accidental maiting so I dont know how healthy they were to begin with, although they seemed pretty healthy.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Glad to hear he is getting better!! Told you he would!!!!


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## srhdufe (Feb 11, 2009)

Hugs hun xxxxx


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> Mine have had myco for months and had two lots of meds. Eventually it can reach the lungs and cause them to gasp and thats when I have put mine to sleep. I have had one with pneumonia and his did come on suddenly but in the end its the same symptoms. I find most vets have no clue about rats so I go to a rabbit vet who also sees the rat rescue rats near me.


Yep, it's still pneumonia - pneumonia isn't an illness in itself, it's a symptom (fluid in the chest - hence the gasping as they're literally drowning).

Myco can end in pneumonia if they have a serious flare up, but it isn't the only cause. True myco is debilitating and lifelong, not a sudden illness like this.

TBH, myco isn't as common as people would think it is now that people breed away from it, but pet shop or feeder/BYB bred rats will be more prone to it as they dont selectively breed for good health.


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> This is very worrying because his brother Pie is now showing the breathing symptoms, although not as bad as Baldrick and his chest doesnt sound clicky like Baldricks did. None of the other rats seem affected I can only think that Bitsy might have picked up a virus when he was at the vets, but Bitsy is fine.. Do I have to get Baytril from a vets as the vet only gave me enough for one rat and I think Im going to need more.


I would nip him along and have a word. Get them to listen to their chest, if it sounds like the rattling is coming from there, it's something that needs antibiotics. If it's just nasal (eg they sneeze and it stops, and there are no chest sounds), watch and see. Baytril will not get rid of a virus, it can only clear up secondary infections, so if it is a virus, you only need to treat it if they get a secondary infection (eg it moves to the chest).

Vets are a bit happy with the antibiotics sometimes, and the more we use baytril when we dont need to, the less it'll work when we do.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> I would nip him along and have a word. Get them to listen to their chest, if it sounds like the rattling is coming from there, it's something that needs antibiotics. If it's just nasal (eg they sneeze and it stops, and there are no chest sounds), watch and see. Baytril will not get rid of a virus, it can only clear up secondary infections, so if it is a virus, you only need to treat it if they get a secondary infection (eg it moves to the chest).
> 
> Vets are a bit happy with the antibiotics sometimes, and the more we use baytril when we dont need to, the less it'll work when we do.


I could hear it on Baldricks chest when I put him to my ear and Pie doesnt sound the same, I will bob him down to the vets tommorrow and see what they say though.


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

Best of luck, I'm sure he'll be ok if he's otherwise happy.

BTW - best to check baytril doses against this site:
Rat Health UK

...and if your vet prescribes too little, then you could always phone and give the "oops I knocked the bottle over, please can I get some more" line :thumbup:


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> Best of luck, I'm sure he'll be ok if he's otherwise happy.
> 
> BTW - best to check baytril doses against this site:
> Rat Health UK
> ...


Omg thats got me terrified now, apparently he shouldnt have injected him with Baytril, but he did. I hope hes lucky and doesnt get those symptoms.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

LisaLQ said:


> Yep, it's still pneumonia - pneumonia isn't an illness in itself, it's a symptom (fluid in the chest - hence the gasping as they're literally drowning).
> 
> Myco can end in pneumonia if they have a serious flare up, but it isn't the only cause. True myco is debilitating and lifelong, not a sudden illness like this.
> 
> TBH, myco isn't as common as people would think it is now that people breed away from it, but pet shop or feeder/BYB bred rats will be more prone to it as they dont selectively breed for good health.


wow I didnt know that 
Unfortunately here myco is everywhere mate its epidemic  But we dont have good breeders in Perth just feeder breeders and back yard jobs


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Omg thats got me terrified now, apparently he shouldnt have injected him with Baytril, but he did. I hope hes lucky and doesnt get those symptoms.


Hmm - baytril burns are another thng that arent as common, or as serious, as some would think. You have to weigh up the risks - eg is your rat going to die if he doesn't get antibiotics quickly into his system, is his system likely to be slowing down (eg digestion) because he is very poorly, and therefore he wont process medicine quickly enough if given orally etc. If your rat is seriously ill, the positives far far outweigh the odd chance that they MIGHT get a baytril burn.

Incidentally, several of my rats have had baytril injections, only one out of many got a baytril burn, and it healed very quickly and was much less serious than end stage pneumonia :thumbup:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Have just read this and hugs too you guys.. I really hope you are through the worst.. xxx


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Hmm - baytril burns are another thng that arent as common, or as serious, as some would think. You have to weigh up the risks - eg is your rat going to die if he doesn't get antibiotics quickly into his system, is his system likely to be slowing down (eg digestion) because he is very poorly, and therefore he wont process medicine quickly enough if given orally etc. If your rat is seriously ill, the positives far far outweigh the odd chance that they MIGHT get a baytril burn.
> 
> Incidentally, several of my rats have had baytril injections, only one out of many got a baytril burn, and it healed very quickly and was much less serious than end stage pneumonia :thumbup:


Will second this.....2 of my rats have had baytril injections with no burns to the injection site after.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

gr33neyes said:


> Will second this.....2 of my rats have had baytril injections with no burns to the injection site after.


Well he hasnt had any signs of a reaction so I think he was one of the lucky ones too.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

thedogsmother said:


> Well he hasnt had any signs of a reaction so I think he was one of the lucky ones too.


Most of its dependant on the way its injected ive found.

The SQ Baytril has a PH of 11.2, which is similar to bleach, and you have to inject it cleanly, and deep enough so that it does not pool just under the first layer of the skin, as thats when it seems to create problems and creates a `burn`.

Both me and my current vet have injected lots of rats with Baytril and had no burns whatsoever in the past few years.


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## myzoo (Jan 13, 2010)

hi hows baldrik today i hope he is getting better me and the rattie clan send him lots of cuddles and scritches get well soon little man.Keep us posted pleases i hope he makes a good recovery hugs


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Hes about the same tbh, I hope I have better news for you tomorrow. Thanks for all the healing thoughts people are sending.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Hes about the same tbh, I hope I have better news for you tomorrow. Thanks for all the healing thoughts people are sending.


Fingers crossed for the little man xx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Got another two sick rats and this time its two of the haired ones, they have porpharin(sp) all around their noses and they sound poppy on their chests. They arent as ill as the other two yet but Im so worried now. The only virus they could have picked up is if Bitsy brought anything back from when he was at the vets, the last rats to come in before that was the rescue boys but that was weeks ago. I will get some more Baytril from the vets tomorrow as Im virtually out now. Omg this is my worst nightmare, I cant see where a virus could have come from apart from Bitsy bringing it back from the vets and hes fine. They all seem subdued, without terrifying me does anyone know what it could be?


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

Have there been any sudden temperature changes? New scents in the air maybe? I think if Bitsy had brought anything back it would have to incubate for up to 7 days for any symptoms to show up, does that fit in with what your guys are having?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Got another two sick rats and this time its two of the haired ones, they have porpharin(sp) all around their noses and they sound poppy on their chests. They arent as ill as the other two yet but Im so worried now. The only virus they could have picked up is if Bitsy brought anything back from when he was at the vets, the last rats to come in before that was the rescue boys but that was weeks ago. I will get some more Baytril from the vets tomorrow as Im virtually out now. Omg this is my worst nightmare, I cant see where a virus could have come from apart from Bitsy bringing it back from the vets and hes fine. They all seem subdued, without terrifying me does anyone know what it could be?


OMG I'm so sorry you're going through this, its horrible when one is ill let alone several
This link explains the symptoms of 3 viruses that can affect rats
Health Guide: Viruses Articles not sure if it will help but it may be worth a look


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

Argent said:


> Have there been any sudden temperature changes? New scents in the air maybe? I think if Bitsy had brought anything back it would have to incubate for up to 7 days for any symptoms to show up, does that fit in with what your guys are having?


Dosent have to be 7 days, but it does sound like a virus, could be Sendai. as that has the symptoms you describe and a short incubation time.

You could have picked it up at a petshop, vets, etc.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

I can't help at all....but sending lots of healing thoughts!!! xx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

spoiled_rat said:


> Dosent have to be 7 days, but it does sound like a virus, could be Sendai. as that has the symptoms you describe and a short incubation time.
> 
> You could have picked it up at a petshop, vets, etc.


Bitsy went to the vets to be castrated, he could have brought something back but he is healthy still.

the symtoms are lethargy, porphyrin in excessive amounts, rattly breathing, loss of temperature in the hairless, eating less.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Bitsy went to the vets to be castrated, he could have brought something back but he is healthy still.
> 
> the symtoms are lethargy, porphyrin in excessive amounts, rattly breathing, loss of temperature in the hairless, eating less.


That does sound like the symptoms of SV described on the health guide, if you scroll down there is a section about nursing care for rats with the disease, antibiotics are still advised for secondary bacterial infections


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Just a thought but how long ago did you get Lilly & could she have been in contact with rats before she came to yours?


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> Just a thought but how long ago did you get Lilly & could she have been in contact with rats before she came to yours?


It is possible but I didnt see any rats where we got her from.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

How is he now Hun??? Sending massive ((((((hugs)))))


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

momentofmadness said:


> How is he now Hun??? Sending massive ((((((hugs)))))


Its hard to describe they are sort of floppy, no that sounds bad err flat, they all sound snuffly and tbh I think two more are going down with it (making 6 so far), one being Bang and hes still a baby .


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

thedogsmother said:


> Its hard to describe they are sort of floppy, no that sounds bad err flat, they all sound snuffly and tbh I think two more are going down with it (making 6 so far), one being Bang and hes still a baby .


Oh No.. I really hope they pull through for you... Big hugs and kisses... xxxx


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

So sorry to hear this Gill :crying: Fingers crossed its just a cold or something  x


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

Paws&Claws said:


> So sorry to hear this Gill :crying: Fingers crossed its just a cold or something  x


Rats cant get colds.


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

spoiled_rat said:


> Rats cant get colds.


I know, i was just trying to be positive  x


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Just occurred to me that recently out of the blue I lost Spike who I thought was recovering nicely from her accident and I also lost Mojo, Ive read that Hamsters and Mice can get this and I wonder if they had it, they looked healthy and just unnexpectedly died.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

thedogsmother said:


> Just occurred to me that recently out of the blue I lost Spike who I thought was recovering nicely from her accident and I also lost Mojo, Ive read that Hamsters and Mice can get this and I wonder if they had it, they looked healthy and just unnexpectedly died.


And didn't spike go to the vets too..

Its all ifs and buts... I bet its baffling you.. I really hope they all pull through...xxx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

momentofmadness said:


> And didn't spike go to the vets too..
> 
> Its all ifs and buts... I bet its baffling you.. I really hope they all pull through...xxx


I need to get some Doxycycline and some Baytril apparently that will give them the best chance, that and keeping them warm and making sure they eat and drink.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

thedogsmother said:


> I need to get some Doxycycline and some Baytril apparently that will give them the best chance, that and keeping them warm and making sure they eat and drink.


Sounds like you have your work cut out hun.. But will be worth it to see them all lively and happy again...

I wish there was something I could do to help you.. xxx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

momentofmadness said:


> Sounds like you have your work cut out hun.. But will be worth it to see them all lively and happy again...
> 
> I wish there was something I could do to help you.. xxx


Thanks hun the healing thoughts will be great though, I have everything crossed they get back to their usual naughty selves.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

thedogsmother said:


> Thanks hun the healing thoughts will be great though, I have everything crossed they get back to their usual naughty selves.


Huge healing thoughts coming your way... xxx


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Hope everythings getting better this morning!
Sending healing thoughts! xxxx


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi hun, how are the poorly ratties today? xx


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

Sounds like you've picked up some form of virus, do any of them have swollen necks? The excess porph was definitely a major symptom with the SDAV here, here's some articles that might help:

National Fancy Rat Society

National Fancy Rat Society

National Fancy Rat Society

The SDAV advice of quarantining, treating symptoms (in the case of SDAV - aspirin in the water, antibiotics only for those with secondary infections, chloramphenicol eye drops for those with the sore eyes, wet food, fluids etc) and riding it out really helped us. Whatever virus this is, you will probably need to quarantine now - which means no rats in or out, no shows, no visiting ratty friends, etc for at least 6-8 weeks.

Thinking of you and hoping it resolves quickly with no losses xxxx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> Sounds like you've picked up some form of virus, do any of them have swollen necks? The excess porph was definitely a major symptom with the SDAV here, here's some articles that might help:
> 
> National Fancy Rat Society
> 
> ...


Thanks for the links Im thinking its Sendai as they dont have any eye or neck swellings, the vet gave me enough Baytril for 8 rats for 10 days so Im going to start treating them. When you say secondary infections do you mean rattly sounding lungs? Sorry Im so tired Im not thinking straight.


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Thanks for the links Im thinking its Sendai as they dont have any eye or neck swellings, the vet gave me enough Baytril for 8 rats for 10 days so Im going to start treating them. When you say secondary infections do you mean rattly sounding lungs? Sorry Im so tired Im not thinking straight.


Stay positive :thumbup:  xxx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Paws&Claws said:


> Stay positive :thumbup:  xxx


Im trying hun, I just cant stand seeing them so poorly,and the thought of loosing them is killing me.


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

Yeah, I would only treat those with full symptoms - eg if they're just looking a bit "off", give them plenty of wet food, maybe the aspirin (not sure if that's useful for Sendai or just SDAV) and see how they go, but any with rattles - treat them with the antibiotics. 

Try not to get too down chuck, while those with severe symptoms are obviously very poorly, I've had a few here who were very ill with SDAV who I thought were going to die, who survived both rounds we had of it, and lived long lives afterwards too.

I'd do a quick search of Fancy Rats for more info too - there might be more specific advice for you there, as there are thousands of members xx


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## cluedo (Jan 12, 2010)

OMG... just read this Gill. How is everyone and the babies?

Sending you HUGE hugs.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

cluedo said:


> OMG... just read this Gill. How is everyone and the babies?
> 
> Sending you HUGE hugs.


Thanks hun, they still arent great but they had a meal of chicken soup as I couldnt get them to eat much. They are all still very wheezy but holding their own at the moment, so far only one of your babies (Bang, the grey husky) has shown symptoms. I cant belive how quickly this has all happened they were fine a few days ago now they are all so sick.


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Thanks hun, they still arent great but they had a meal of chicken soup as I couldnt get them to eat much. They are all still very wheezy but holding their own at the moment, so far only one of your babies (Bang, the grey husky) has shown symptoms. I cant belive how quickly this has all happened they were fine a few days ago now they are all so sick.


Keep doing what you are doing! You are doing soooo well!! Sending hugs and positive thoughts  x


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## cluedo (Jan 12, 2010)

I don't think this is sendai you have or you'd have deaths from what I have read and from people I have heard have had it.

But whatever it is is nasty.... how many have it now?


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

cluedo said:


> I don't think this is sendai you have or you'd have deaths from what I have read and from people I have heard have had it.
> 
> But whatever it is is nasty.... how many have it now?


9 have it so far but the others arent showing signs at all, Im starting to think (although I darent say it in case Im tempting fate) well what Im trying to say is they all got up and ate and walked around then went to sleep again and Monty (who was affected) is wrestling with Flash (who had no symptoms) now, omg I darent say it in case Im imagining it but surely that is a good sign isnt it?


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> 9 have it so far but the others arent showing signs at all, Im starting to think (although I darent say it in case Im tempting fate) well what Im trying to say is they all got up and ate and walked around then went to sleep again and Monty (who was affected) is wrestling with Flash (who had no symptoms) now, omg I darent say it in case Im imagining it but surely that is a good sign isnt it?


:thumbup: x


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

I don't mean to sound totally stupid....but could it be a cold....with varying levels of severity?

Well whatever it is it is amazing they seem to be getting better!! 

xxxxxxxhugsssssssssssssssxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

niki87 said:


> I don't mean to sound totally stupid....but could it be a cold....with varying levels of severity?
> 
> Well whatever it is it is amazing they seem to be getting better!!
> 
> xxxxxxxhugsssssssssssssssxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Rats can't catch colds but maybe it is something bacterial that is affecting them to varying degrees
Cluedo, I agree that Sendai sounds absolutely horrible & seems to have a very high mortality rate so fingers crossed its not that
TDM, you & the boys are in my thoughts & I hope that they are turning a corner xxxx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

niki87 said:


> I don't mean to sound totally stupid....but could it be a cold....with varying levels of severity?
> 
> Well whatever it is it is amazing they seem to be getting better!!
> 
> xxxxxxxhugsssssssssssssssxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Well Paws and Claws suggested that but someone said they dont get colds, If you look at the video of Baldrick his breathing was horrific. They are still really poorly but Baldrick and Pie are definately better than they were, please dont stop sendinghealing thoughts for them as they are far from out of the woods but I feel less hopeless than I did before.


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

We only lost 5 very poorly rats through the SDAV (out of roughly 30 rats), so no, these nasty viruses dont always cause lots of losses, and many rats will come through the other side after being very ill. I wouldn't write off the nasty viruses yet, although I would remain hopeful that losses wont occur.

For it to affect so many rats in one go it is almost certainly something viral, rats dont get colds, whatever it is - it's contagious and therefore you need to treat it as if it was one of the serious illnesses (if it isnt), and quarantine fully.

It's a pain in the bum having to stop visiting rat friends (and vice versa), shows, pet shops etc - but stops others going through what you are now so well worth it.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Well hope it's something thats not that Sendai thing!! Poor little things!! I can't imagine what you're going through! The vid is horrible.

Don't worry healing thoughts and prayers coming your way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! xxxxxxxxx


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

sending buckets full of healing thoughts 

xxxx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> We only lost 5 very poorly rats through the SDAV (out of roughly 30 rats), so no, these nasty viruses dont always cause lots of losses, and many rats will come through the other side after being very ill. I wouldn't write off the nasty viruses yet, although I would remain hopeful that losses wont occur.
> 
> For it to affect so many rats in one go it is almost certainly something viral, rats dont get colds, whatever it is - it's contagious and therefore you need to treat it as if it was one of the serious illnesses (if it isnt), and quarantine fully.
> 
> It's a pain in the bum having to stop visiting rat friends (and vice versa), shows, pet shops etc - but stops others going through what you are now so well worth it.


I had to fight the vet to let me have the meds yesterday without bringing the rats down and thats the vets situated in [email protected], I walked right round the outside of the store to avoid any rodents and that was after covering my hands in antibacaterial stuff. I wouldnt wish this (whatever it is) on any other living creature. As youve unfortunately had experience with the more horrible of the viruses can you tell me how long it takes them to start to recover? Baldrick is right now sat on the food bowl digging to find his favourite bits and on saturday he couldnt stand at all.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

That bought tears to my eyes....he's a little fighter. You've done amazingly! xx


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## cluedo (Jan 12, 2010)

I really don't know how long it takes. Mine all sneeze here on and off and its definitely something atmospheric that sets them off. If one sneezes and its bacterial then the droplets can land on another rat and that rat will also catch whatever it is.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Right, I just took everyone out to clean the cage and give them all their Baytril, they are all still subdued but their chests sound much better, they still have porphyrin but they are checking out the newly cleaned cage as they usually do. Baldrick and Pie who were the worst hit are pitifully thin but they seem so much better than they were. Please keep all those healing thoughts coming and I will still assume they had a contagious infection and I will still follow quarantine procedures but omg Im in tears they are running up the ladder exploring, these were rats who were too ill to stand such a short time ago. One thing I noticed was they were all weeing a hell of a lot whilst theyve been ill, I changed the hammocks every day and they were still soaking. Oh they are also all nice and warm again.


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Right, I just took everyone out to clean the cage and give them all their Baytril, they are all still subdued but their chests sound much better, they still have porphyrin but they are checking out the newly cleaned cage as they usually do. Baldrick and Pie who were the worst hit are pitifully thin but they seem so much better than they were. Please keep all those healing thoughts coming and I will still assume they had a contagious infection and I will still follow quarantine procedures but omg Im in tears they are running up the ladder exploring, these were rats who were too ill to stand such a short time ago. One thing I noticed was they were all weeing a hell of a lot whilst theyve been ill, I changed the hammocks every day and they were still soaking. Oh they are also all nice and warm again.


Keeping the thoughts coming! Keep doing what you are doing! :thumbup: x


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Healing thoughts....

Great big ((((HUGS))))


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

how is the ratty family doing today tdm?

so terrible that this has happened to your fur babies,have the mice or hammies shown symptoms?

thinking of u and ratties xx


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

How are they today?  x


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

I think looking back, it lasted a week for some, 2 for others, and I have one or two who had long term rattles from it - although they were happy and healthy in all other aspects.

There are pictures on a thread about SDAV on FR, including pics of deceased rats though so *not for the faint hearted* but definitely worth looking at if you aren't sure what to look for...

Fancy Rats • View topic - Effects of SDAV - *warning, graphic pics*


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Very useful link thanks , I am sort of 60% sure it is sdav, they havent had all the symtoms but theyve had enough to worry me so I will treat the quaratine as if they have had it. Rudi is still very poorly and the other two hairless boys need building up as they are painfully thin, I cant belive they could loose that much weight in a few days. I hope my babies are over the worst of it but I have to admit I havent touched the girls or let them have free range since saturday, they have been fed my my oh and now they really need a clean so Ive bought some disposable gloves so I (hopefully) dont pass anything on. The hamsters and mice are so far looking healthy and happy so touch wood that continues.


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## cluedo (Jan 12, 2010)

Keeping everything crossed for you. One thing I have noticed is that there are a LOT of people who are having the same symptoms with their rats and they can't ALL have SDAV or there is a BIG epidemic problem with it.

I wonder if there is something going round not identified yet as the symptoms with everyone is the same and none of the symptoms typical to SDAV.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

cluedo said:


> Keeping everything crossed for you. One thing I have noticed is that there are a LOT of people who are having the same symptoms with their rats and they can't ALL have SDAV or there is a BIG epidemic problem with it.
> 
> I wonder if there is something going round not identified yet as the symptoms with everyone is the same and none of the symptoms typical to SDAV.


That crossed my mind too, they have swollen eyes but they arent terribly swollen necks arent really swollen at all, and the porphyrin isnt to the extent that it was on the rats in those photos (most never had any), tbh Im not bothered what it was/is, I just care that they get over it


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

The swollen eyes and necks are only found with SDAV if I remember correctly - edited to add: not all rats with SDAV will have those symptoms though - some of ours didnt, but the few who did confirmed the diagnosis.

As for it "cant be SDAV" because of how many people have had it - SDAV has done the rounds for years and years, just last year and this year it has been extremely common - several people have had it - not just breeders, or pet owners, but pet shops, feeder breeders, pet breeders, pet homes - everyone who has contact with other rats is at risk - so no, I'd have to disagree with that part.

It's like telling us we're liars, if you'd lost rats to SDAV you wouldn't take that very kindly.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> The swollen eyes and necks are only found with SDAV if I remember correctly.
> 
> As for it "cant be SDAV" because of how many people have had it - SDAV has done the rounds for years and years, just last year and this year it has been extremely common - several people have had it - not just breeders, or pet owners, but pet shops, feeder breeders, pet breeders, pet homes - everyone who has contact with other rats is at risk - so no, I'd have to disagree with that part.
> 
> It's like telling us we're liars, if you'd lost rats to SDAV you wouldn't take that very kindly.


I think people are trying to be positive....not offensive.

I don't doubt it's existence....I lost a mouse a few months ago...I had no idea why.....but cos of this story I have been looking it up and I am now wondering if that was it!

Unfortunately there are so many things going round. Here's to hoping it's not serious/fatal!!!

More hugs TDM!!!!!! xx


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Ps.... Lisa...I am so sorry you have lost animals to it!!! It does sound genuinely awful for both the animal and their owners!!!!  xx


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

cluedo said:


> Keeping everything crossed for you. One thing I have noticed is that there are a LOT of people who are having the same symptoms with their rats and they can't ALL have SDAV or there is a BIG epidemic problem with it.
> 
> I wonder if there is something going round not identified yet as the symptoms with everyone is the same and none of the symptoms typical to SDAV.


Im sorry but why cant they all have SDAV?? I've had it twice and lost just under 30 rats combined to it....Yes there is a big problem with it, and what appears to be various strains too with different levels of severity, some just sneezing and porphy, some dropping dead, some swollen eyes and glands...but still SDAV..

Its not like ticking off a checklist on a website and ruling it out that way, as the checklists tend to list every possible combination of symptoms and often they only have a small fraction of these.

I find your post a little...aggravating to be perfectly honest.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

cluedo said:


> Keeping everything crossed for you. One thing I have noticed is that there are a LOT of people who are having the same symptoms with their rats and they can't ALL have SDAV or there is a BIG epidemic problem with it.
> 
> I wonder if there is something going round not identified yet as the symptoms with everyone is the same and none of the symptoms typical to SDAV.


It did the rounds last year & there was enough of it about to cancel rat shows for months, it was really distressing reading about it on FR forum when it felt like every day someone else had found their precious rats had it
More healing vibes coming your way TDM, from me & the ratty family xxxx


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## cluedo (Jan 12, 2010)

spoiled_rat said:


> Im sorry but why cant they all have SDAV?? I've had it twice and lost just under 30 rats combined to it....Yes there is a big problem with it, and what appears to be various strains too with different levels of severity, some just sneezing and porphy, some dropping dead, some swollen eyes and glands...but still SDAV..
> 
> Its not like ticking off a checklist on a website and ruling it out that way, as the checklists tend to list every possible combination of symptoms and often they only have a small fraction of these.
> 
> I find your post a little...aggravating to be perfectly honest.


I'm sorry if my post offends Laura, and to those who lost rats to SDA - it was not my intention. I can't imagine how upsetting that is for you all. I know how I would feel if I was in your shoes.

But I still think there are so so so many people at the moment saying that their rats are respy with similar symptoms. Every day on the FR someone else is reporting the same symptoms of respiness. If that is the case then the rat world has a BIG problem. SDA has been around yes for yonks, but it wasn't as widespread as it appears it might be now, with so many people with the same symptoms. And, if all those people reporting symptoms have it then its a problem big time and potentially every rat owner is at risk whereas before the risks were less if you didn't attend shows etc.

It doesn't do any harm to quarantine to be on the safe side with any apparently contagious problem though.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

I think the big difference now is awareness...people are aware that there are Viruses and are more clued up about rat health nowadays.

The surge of information and articles on rat health in the past 5 or so years has helped to spread awareness too, as has the growth of Internet forums and communities.

Speaking to long time owners and breeders, it seems the symptoms of viruses have been around for as long as they remember, but in most cases it wasn't openly discussed like it is now and people didn't know the science behind what was happening as ELISA testing etc which we have today, wasn't an option back then.

There are many posts on FR and similar forums about resp infections etc, simply as rats have been dealt a crap hand when it comes to their respiratory system.

The key is realising the difference between classic myco and a virus...that in itself isn't rocket science, as myco isn't contagious between rat to rat, as they all have it anyway, so these so called `Myco Outbreaks` which i see labelled on such forums....physically are impossible.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

Hey TDM, sorry I didn't catch you on MSN tonight - hope your ratties are okay!


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

niki87 said:


> I don't doubt it's existence....I lost a mouse a few months ago...I had no idea why.....but cos of this story I have been looking it up and I am now wondering if that was it!


Not sure about mice, I dont think SDAV affects them? Even if it did, you'd soon know about it, there is no "was it, wasnt it?" with these viruses, the infection rate is 100%, it will affect all your rats - just to varying degrees.

It is carried on your clothes for hours too, so quarantining in different rooms is virtually impossible, even if you shower in between etc it will eventually infect all your animals - so all you do is prolong it. I have rats dotted around the place, showered, used anti-bac hand gel, but still all my rats got it. Including a litter of babies (luckily they all survived).

We lost 5 rats (or 6?) to the initial outbreak, a couple passed away later from long term scarring, and we had another weaker respiratory infection do the rounds a few months later - we assume that it was probably SDAV again but the second time round we had no neck or eye symptoms, just rattly rats, so without doing the blood test (and you can only do that if you're putting a rat to sleep as they need a lot of blood) we couldn't confirm or rule that out - so we had to quarantine all over again to be safe.

Was a hard time for us, because unlike many we were very open about the infection so that others would also stand up and say "we have it too", our waiting list disappeared, and still hasn't recovered a year on.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

This does sound rather airborn then....
Im really hoping that your Guys all recover well and lets hope and pray they have a speedy recovery with no after effects.. All My Love Hayley.. xxxx


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Well the boys are still poorly some are getting worse, 6 are getting Baytril and Im monitoring the others (their chests arent affected yet), my heart rat Remy is the worst affected so far, hes got a terribly swollen throat area and hes got lots of porphyrin, hes sneezing a lot but his chest doesnt sound shocking. He seems to have an outbreak of mites (probably brought on by the stress) but I dont know whether to treat him for mites and add to his stress. I feel so helpless, I just keep thinking they are improving then they get worse. Poor Remy he feels so rough and he still wants to give me a lick and a clean. They have had a full can of ham and pea soup between the 12 boys so hopefully they will be getting something as they dont seem to be going through their mix very well.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Am rooting for you guys.. xxx


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Not sure about mice, I dont think SDAV affects them? Even if it did, you'd soon know about it, there is no "was it, wasnt it?" with these viruses, the infection rate is 100%, it will affect all your rats - just to varying degrees.


Oh I don't know....but one day I noticed she was breathing all rattling and was slow. But 24 hours later she was properly panting....i held her and suddenly she fitted and died in my hands.

Was pretty awful whatever it was!!!

TDM......still sending more healing thoughts!!!! xx


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

*URGENT MESSAGE FROM TDM*

Her ratties are very poorly atm and any advice would be much appresiated?!

Merlins mum or Cluedo if you are online could you please get in touch with Gill? on here or otherwise! xx


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

So sorry to hear this sending love and healing vibes, hope someone can give her some help as she is always the first to help others out xxx


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

oh gosh TDM, I hope they get well soon 

If I had even the slightest bit of knowledge i'd help 

poor ratties & poor TDM


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Paws&Claws said:


> *URGENT MESSAGE FROM TDM*
> 
> Her ratties are very poorly atm and any advice would be much appresiated?!
> 
> Merlins mum or Cluedo if you are online could you please get in touch with Gill? on here or otherwise! xx


Oh no, I thought they were getting better
I'll try & PM her, see if there's anything I can do


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Thank you for healing thoughts. Please only send TDM advice via PMs any healing thoughts and wishes please post on here, so she gets the advice quickest  x


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

It saddens me to share this: 
http://www.petforums.co.uk/rainbow-bridge/114796-my-big-brave-pie.html#post1739852


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## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

Sorry to hear things have got worse.


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