# Insurance



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm considering insuring my cats for breeding risks, perhaps in combination, if it's available, with covering non-breeding related issues and wondering if any breeders here have this cover and, more crucially, your experience with the insurer when having to make a claim.

I've done an on-line quote for one of the cats with Agria. It *seems* reasonable but I'm a bit dubious about Agria's reputation and any 'hidden' drawbacks of their breeder policy.

I'm yet to do a quote with Pet Plan who I understand also provide this type of cover. I'm not aware of any other insurers who do but would appreciate knowing otherwise if there is - many thanks.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi,

All mine are insured with Agria on their breeders policy and when I took out the policies I rang and spoke to them to go through what was covered and what wasn't and the options for policies, as well as breeding related issues of the Mum their policy covers problems with the kittens too and also pretty standard health care. I did add on another premium for around 18p per month per cat to cover something additional that I though was of benefit but not on the standard policy....just using this an example that if you ring you can tailor your own policy and add on and take off what you think is beneficial.

There are also different voluntary excess options and the option to agree to pay a percentage of any bills on top of the excess to reduce the premiums, I opted for 10%. There are exclusions on the policy for some pretty common things though and it takes some reading through - when I took it out there was a 14 day cancellation period so gave me plenty of chance to study the policy documents in detail for any catches, I didn't find anything I wasn't already aware of.

I am more than happy with the cover BUT as is always the case in the year all of mine have been insured there hasn't been a need to claim so cant comment on the service in the event of!

Prior to insuring I had a worrying few weeks with a shock £1200 vet bill, quickly followed by several of a few hundred pounds a time in quick succession in the following weeks which was what prompted me to insure, I find knowing I have the policies in place for any big problems that might happen has given me peace of mind and am more than prepared and able to cover the exclusions myself.

Hope this helps, Lisa.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

It does help, Lisa, thank you very much. When I did the on-line quote with Agria I played around with the vet fees level of cover and the various excess/% options and it seems reasonably affordable.

Pet Plan on the other hand - oh my word. I rang for a quote based on one cat (as I'd done with Agria) and the monthly premiums were 2.5 times higher, 6 months exclusion for breeding risks from inception of the policy as opposed to Agria at 3 months and their limit of cover for breeding risks was £500 (what year are they living in?) as opposed to Agria's £1,000.

Looks like Agria then. I really just wish I'd done it earlier in the year as I've two maiden girls who have just been mated and, of course, they're not going to be covered.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

I rang Agria initially as couldn't face having to input all the cats details just for a quote and didn't think about just doing one!!!

Was quite impressed that when it came to insuring all the guy on the phone needed was each cats GCCF Reg number and their system brought up the cats full details which he then just confirmed with me...made it a simple process as was dreading spelling out some of my cats pedigree names!!!

I also got an introductory offer of 3 months half price premiums as a new customer which helped and am sure I get a multipolicy discount across all policies...not a lot but it all helps. If you ring and they don't offer ask about this! : )

I would definitely ring them, have a pen ready!!! and negotiate what you are looking for....we juggled the options about for ages and the person on the other end of the phone was very knowledgable and helpful....at one point was getting so confused with what I could add and what I couldn't and whether I should or not said could I ring him back after I had had a think about it. He was fine gave me his direct number and saved the quote so I could ring him back later which I did after a coffee and a mooch over the figures and benefits, then asked about completely different things!!!

I had heard some of the bad press and hope that Agria prove to be as efficient in the event of a claim but like you didn't find Petplan really competitive in this area at all and think they need to rethink those figures!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

A friend has switched to Agria as apparently it covers the kittens as well as the mother cat.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

All my girls are with them . Mainly because it covers them and kittens. . I have not had to use them yet and hope I never do but it's peace of mind they are all covered if need be...


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

I do hate to rain on your parade - but:

Agria were the subject of an investigation, not once, but twice by The Sunday Times.

Agria were the subject of a Watchdog programme about pet insurance.

Agria run insurance for both the GCCF and the Kennel Club solely because of the money they pay those organisations.

Agria were the sole reason I set up a website to help people choose a decent insurer. Although the full details have been posted here before, in brief, they charged me 3 excesses for a dog - 2 for my vet and 1 for the specialist - all for the same problem. When the dog (a puppy) died after being insured with them for 2 months they charged me all the premiums for the rest of the year, plus the excesses and deducted those from the payout. They were unhelpful when dealing with the claim and wrote to me after the claim had been dealt with as if the puppy was still alive. I have had exactly the opposite experience with Pet Plan, who stopped collecting premiums on death and wrote a very nice condolence letter.

I am not alone in this. The investigations mention above showed similar cases. Although I no longer show cats (I used to many years ago) my friends in the cat world were horrified when the GCCF signed Agria up to be their insurance 'brand'.

I do hope you fare better but I haven't heard of anyone who has been happy with their experience of this company.


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## Sally Hayward (Apr 14, 2013)

It is great that you have read through the policy and that you didn't find anything you are unhappy with you. (Most people don't bother and then are surprised by the exclusions when they come to claim).

However one difficulty is that unless you read through all the other policies (as I did when researching my website!) you really don't know what is common to most policies and what is different about this particular policy.

For example in the Agria policy there is a third party liability exclusion on any incident which involves "the use or ownership of any motorised vehicle". Having read through all the other policies I have not seen this wording anywhere else. Just thought you should be aware!


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi Guys,

Its really great to have some experts and I am always on the look out for a better deal so hope you don't mind but could I pick your brains and say what I need in my policy and if there is a more reputable or even cheaper (I am a hobby breeder so work to keep my breeding dreams alive!) option then could you point me in the right direction or maybe even a link to a good company. : )

My needs are as follows and so the policies must contain these key benefits to be comparable with what I have in place now..

1. Cover for all breeding related activities i.e emergency cesearians, infertility investigations if problems occur and all things basically related to the reproductive life of the cat.
2. Cover must cover not only the mother but also the kittens, I want to say cover up to 12 weeks as standard for them...haven't got my policy to hand so can someone who knows correct me if I am wrong.
3. Full death benefit on purchase costs covering up to the age of 11 years.
4. A full standard health policy accepting that usual exclusions for dental etc will apply.

I need the company to be willing to insure 9 cats, 2 of whom are active stud boys who entertain outside ladies and the budget is £10.00 per month per cat, I wont go into excesses in detail but not more than £100 per claim and I am prepared to pay 10% of final bills to keep the premiums down.

I am sorry to hijack the thread with my request but what's my best option company wise.

Many thanks in advance, Lisa.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

lisajjl1 said:


> I am sorry to hijack the thread with my request but what's my best option company wise.


To the best of my knowledge the only companies that cover breeding are Pet Plan and Agria. You can measure your expectations against their offerings but you may have to curb your requirements


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

AlbertRoss said:


> To the best of my knowledge the only companies that cover breeding are Pet Plan and Agria. You can measure your expectations against their offerings but you may have to curb your requirements


Hi AlbertRoss,

Must be a bit of a small market then really which is a real pity....when you say I might have to 'curb my requirements' do you mean they wont pay out on these things if I claim - my list wasn't just my own requirements it was actually what I have covered for and am paying for and have the written policy stating they will pay claims for.

If I've misread can you explain....maybe I am reading what you are saying wrong and want to understand more.

Thanks, Lisa


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## Sally Hayward (Apr 14, 2013)

Would agree with Albert... have been through all UK pet insurance policies for my website. The only ones I found which included breeding risks (as an optional extra) were those mentioned above... plus VetUK which is another policy underwritten by Agria.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks for looking Sally, 

Its a pity that there isn't a bigger choice but at least there is a choice now...a few years ago there were none. 

Lisa.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

lisajjl1 said:


> Hi AlbertRoss,
> 
> Must be a bit of a small market then really which is a real pity....when you say I might have to 'curb my requirements' do you mean they wont pay out on these things if I claim - my list wasn't just my own requirements it was actually what I have covered for and am paying for and have the written policy stating they will pay claims for.
> 
> ...


I don't know about Agria - because I wouldn't touch them with a disinfected bargepole - but the Pet Plan normal policy specifically excludes any pregnancy problems, doesn't cover kittens and, like just about every other company, won't cover death up to the age of 11. That's what I mean by curbing your requirements.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Pet Plan do have a product similar to Agria's to cover breeding risks. Unfortunately, the maximum amount they will pay in any one year (for breeding related claims) is half that of Agria's and their exclusion period from inception is 6 months; it's 3 months with Agria.

I had a quote from both yesterday. I thought Pet Plan's premium was triple that of Agria but when I had a re-quote to adjust the cover to match as closely as possible, the premium was almost quadruple.

The Agria policy on the face of things is better in several other respects, the main one being that the policy covers not only the queen but her kittens up to an age of 20 weeks or whenever they leave for their new homes, whichever is the sooner. Most breeders will know how a vet bill can really mount up for a litter of kittens even when it's a fairly innocuous, easily treated condition.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

I've just claimed on my Petplan policy and they paid out money in my account 2 weeks from the treatment which I was impressed with. Yes there is a £500 cap though.

My queens litter died inside her nearly full term and they covered scans and a C-Section and speying her and xrays and all drugs after. My bill was £578 and I got it all back bar the £85 excess.

She was my only queen on this policy though - all other girls on Agria with whom I have had equally good experiences.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

Agria is a big insurance company, of course there will be many customers that aren't happy. However, there are also many happy customers. The happy ones usually doesn't make much noise though.

I don't know if Agria has different conditions in other countries bus as a Swedish breeder, there is no other insurance company I'd turn to. I've compared with all the other ones we have and Agria cover by far most breeding related things. Expensive yes, but since I reach maximum discount it's nothing to complain about.

Luckily I've had healthy cats, very few problems but the few times I've had problems with the cats Agria has covered and I have no complaints at all.

If I hadn't been a breeder I probably would have had my pet cats insured in some other, cheaper, insurance company.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Cerridwen said:


> Agria is a big insurance company, of course there will be many customers that aren't happy. However, there are also many happy customers. The happy ones usually doesn't make much noise though.
> 
> I don't know if Agria has different conditions in other countries bus as a Swedish breeder, there is no other insurance company I'd turn to. I've compared with all the other ones we have and Agria cover by far most breeding related things. Expensive yes, but since I reach maximum discount it's nothing to complain about.
> 
> ...


In Sweden Agria has the use of a veterinary database of animal illnesses which enable it to calculate risks accurately. It doesn't have that in the UK. It is also the largest insurer in the Scandinavian countries.

However, that doesn't alter the fact that in the UK it behaves very badly. No company of that size manages to get itself on TV and in the papers on consumer programmes dedicated to uncovering bad practice unless it is guilty of undertaking bad practice.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

AlbertRoss said:


> In Sweden Agria has the use of a veterinary database of animal illnesses which enable it to calculate risks accurately. It doesn't have that in the UK. It is also the largest insurer in the Scandinavian countries.
> 
> However, that doesn't alter the fact that in the UK it behaves very badly. No company of that size manages to get itself on TV and in the papers on consumer programmes dedicated to uncovering bad practice unless it is guilty of undertaking bad practice.


What database is that? I've always had the impression that they have their own database and base their conditions on their own statistics. That's also why breed clubs have difficult to get any detailed statistics from them, even though it would be useful for our breeding practice.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Cerridwen said:


> What database is that? I've always had the impression that they have their own database and base their conditions on their own statistics. That's also why breed clubs have difficult to get any detailed statistics from them, even though it would be useful for our breeding practice.


As a matter of law some Scandinavian countries require their veterinary bodies to collect data on pet treatment. The resulting information is made available to insurance companies in those countries. I have no detailed knowledge of what the information is or how the system works. It is something that has been suggested here in the UK but the RCVS thought it was too much to ask of vets. Without legislation requiring it, they are probably right as there would obviously be costs involved.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

AlbertRoss said:


> As a matter of law some Scandinavian countries require their veterinary bodies to collect data on pet treatment. The resulting information is made available to insurance companies in those countries. I have no detailed knowledge of what the information is or how the system works. It is something that has been suggested here in the UK but the RCVS thought it was too much to ask of vets. Without legislation requiring it, they are probably right as there would obviously be costs involved.


I've checked around vets, vet nurses and breeders and they say a law like that exists for livestock but not for pets. So no, there's no such database for cats.

Insurance companies only have access to their own statistics based on their customers. Information that sometimes is used by vets for research.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Cerridwen said:


> I've checked around vets, vet nurses and breeders and they say a law like that exists for livestock but not for pets. So no, there's no such database for cats.
> 
> Insurance companies only have access to their own statistics based on their customers. Information that sometimes is used by vets for research.


Well, that doesn't surprise me - because the source for my information was - Agria!

Now I've checked it myself it seems that there is a Scandinavian system for cattle, there was going to be a Nordic system across all veterinary bodies but that failed in 2003 and that Agria are, in fact, relying solely on information they say they get from their "partner" Kennel Clubs in the countries in which they operate. As the UK Kennel Club doesn't hold any such medical information (although the Animal Health Trust has a very limited amount) it would seem that Agria weren't being truthful. That really doesn't surprise me, given that reviews of their insurance show that 2/3rds of customers are completely dissatisfied with them - both because of very high premiums and their refusals to pay out.

As I've said before, it's unlikely that a company of that size gets itself in the press and on TV for bad practice, not once but several times, unless there's a genuine problem with it.

I've now known several breeders who originally offered Agria (in KC branding) with their puppies and who have gone back to Pet Plan because of the treatment their buyers have had.

In the UK I would think that Agria and E&L would be fighting for the 'honour' of being the worst pet insurance company.


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