# Time between litters?



## Triggs (Sep 21, 2008)

Hi

My Burmese had her first litter at the end of November (one male georgous kitten!). Could other breeders out there let me know how long they usually leave between litters? My Queen is obviously calling again and I would also like breeders views on using a cat contraceptive pill until I breed her again. But this will depend on when I can breed.
Many thanks.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

i belive that GCCF will only let you register 3 litters every two years (so every 8 months) and there must be a gap of 17 weeks minimum. I only intend breeding my lass every 9 months - 1 year.


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## Alansw8 (May 25, 2008)

Hi there

I would give it 12 months if you can as 2 litters in short space of time can be too much on the queen.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I don't think i'd wait 12 months, esp as she only had one kitten/


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

spid said:


> i belive that GCCF will only let you register 3 litters every two years (so every 8 months) and there must be a gap of 17 weeks minimum.


No, the three litters in two years rule is a common misconception. I think lots of breed clubs must have that rule but the GCCF doesn't. I can't find the recommendation for time between litters (someone will know) but I was surprised at how short it was - could well be 17 weeks. I would not guarantee this, but from what I remember, the GCCF would not complain if you mated her again this call (I am not suggesting you do that of course)

Liz


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## bluechip (Dec 26, 2008)

i thought it was up to the breeders how many litters they let there queens have?,


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

There is the 17 weeks guideline, but I think the 3 litters in 2 years is a FiFE thing, but I may be wrong.

I don't like my girls to have more than one pregnancy in any 12 month period if possible. Then again I am lucky that none of them go into constant calling. That said if I did have a girl like that I wouldn't use her in a breeding program as it suggests a hormonal inbalance to me.

Even if they have only had one kitten, their bodies have still been through the stress of a pregnancy and birth, and you should aim to give them as long as you can in between to allow them sufficient time to recover. Imho that makes for a healthier, happier Mum and far healthier, happier babies. Over breeding a queen places a huge stress on her body and immune system and that also affects the vitality of her kittens.


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## Triggs (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks for all your views. It made me realise that it makes sense to wait till September to breed her again (about a year), it gives her time to get back to being our lovely pet and also gives me a summer free of kittens!

Any view on the contraceptive pill to control calling? Being Burmese she is very vocal all through the night when in heat - dosn't fit in with my husband and sleeping .... although the children don't seem to hear! Thanks.


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Agreed - if you can space it out then do - but with one kitten i would suppose she's much more in condition (without seeing her i'm only guessing) as my Leeny hasn't lost any condition, a little coat maybe but put on weight instead of dropping it as she only had the one and then didn't really feed him and i had to x

the guidelines are there for us to work by and i stick tend to stick to them x


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

The pill can irregulate her completely once taken off it so i wouldn't recommend it x

Maybe some industrial earmuffs for the family instead  lol xx

If you want to breed you do have to just put up with these things, otherwise it'd be too easy lol x


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Leaving a Burmese calling her head off for eight months seems like an extremely bad idea to me. I certainly wouldn't do it. If you want to leave her that long then put her on Ovarid.

Liz


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## Triggs (Sep 21, 2008)

Yes, family earmuffs may be the answer. As you say breeding would be too easy otherwise !!!!


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## Raggiestars (Jan 29, 2009)

I'm still new to breeding so I dont pretend to have all the answers, luckly for me I have a vet I trust 110% and a good support in breeders who have been breeding for alot longer than more and have loads more experience to call on.

Now I've always been told (both by vet and by other breeders) not to leave a girl call more than three times without mating them as the health risks increase dramaticly and can be fatal. Not sure if this applies to all cats or just Raggies (never thought to ask my vet that one seeing as how its only raggies I have to breed from). I would assume it applies to all cats.

However you have to consider each cat as an individual, some will call more often than others and with these you should look to mate them sooner between litters but have their spayed alot eariler as well. 

However you must consider the condition and health and the cat, if your girl is in top condition and only reared one kitten, I wouldnt let her go downhill from calling and calling for the sake of trying to comply with a set time scale. 

My girl had a litter of four but she didnt raise them very well at all and completely rejected them at six weeks old. The kittens would now by 17 weeks old. My girl has had three calls since this litter so I have discussed with my vet and we have put her on the injection. This is because she is very thin and not in any condition I believe to have a litter of kittens again from. I will try her later in the year or maybe next depending on the reaction to the injection and how long it knocks her off call. If she still doesnt like having babies, I will have her spayed so this injection was a short-term measure to try and give her time to get over having this litter and get back into condition before I mate her again. Its not a long-term solution so should have minimumal health risks to her. I always believe in putting the health of mum first. I dont know if this was the right thing to do or not as this is my first experience of it, I have had to go on the advice of my vet and try and do whats best for my girl. I know its not right to leave her calling her head off. 

I think breeders do tend to condemm each other far to quickly. But then as everyone loves their pets so passionately is so easy to see why. No-one wants to believe anyone would intentionally breed as many kittens from a girl just for the sake of money, although it is a very sad fact that there are too many people that do. 

Anyway I hope I had been of help, like I said, this is only from my experience. I always hope I havent offended anyone with what I have said (not sure how I could have but you never know), everything I have said has been in hope to share advice from my experience in response to the question asked, never to cause offense


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I think the point that is generally missed, is that female cats are designed to be bred a lot. They're not designed to have just one or two seasons a year and if they miss mating then they just wait to the next one, they are designed so that their calls get longer and more frequent the longer they are left. One of mine last year, recovering from a caesarean where she lost the whole litter, called two days after the caesarean, for about a week, then had a break of two days before starting off again, this time for two and a half weeks! In her case she then didn't call for a few weeks, but if she had, goodness knows how long it would have gone on for - and many female cats DO just go on and on.

So you have only three alternatives really, let the cat have kittens when she wants to (just have her spayed when she's had enough litters), put her on Ovarid or Delvosterone (if that is still the injection they use?), or let her make herself ill and drive you insane. The third is not an option as far as I am concerned.

Liz


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## bluechip (Dec 26, 2008)

hi i have been told only let my queens call three times and on the third call put her with the stud as having to many call puts them at a health risk. so i do put my queens to stud after the second call. i do this after the advice of three long time breeders and the vet.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Just because people advocate giving a queen a decent amount of time to recover between litters, does not mean those people are saying also saying let the queen call her head off until she becomes ill or dies  Its an individual judgement call.

This whole number of calls issue before you risk pyo varies depending on who you talk to. I have been advised anywhere between 3 and 6 calls! You have to make a personal decision based on your own cat, but I personally would not want to breed from a cat who had an insane calling pattern, and I don't.

I do think that this "number of calls" issue is open to abuse and used by those that want to continuously mate their girls as an excuse for doing so. Thats not the case for everyone, but I have seen that reason consistently used by those serial overbreeders I am aware of.

I am not sure I agree with Mother Nature intending cats to be permanently bare pawed and pregnant. However, if she did, she also wasn't intending them to live as long as we prefer our pampered queens to.


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## Alansw8 (May 25, 2008)

A lot of good posts on this as i have a girl which has started calling and is only 81/2 month old so how long do you think i should give her before getting her mated as i was hoping that she would neaerer a year old before doing so as she is still only a kitten in my eyes.

Alan


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

If this is her first call at 8 1/2 months, then I would see how quickly she has her second. You may find that she doesn't have another for a couple of months and so on. My own personal opinion would be you could hold her out until a year old, or even if you have to mate her before that time be in a position where she is a year old when the kittens are born. It depends what her calling pattern turns out to be.

One of my girls first called when she was 5 months old, then had 3 in quick succession, but then stopped until she was 11 months old. She was over a year when her first litter was born.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

is this her first call? If so i'd leave her until her third call and then mate her that way she will be a year or so (hopefully). Mine called at 10 months for her first call and then not again until 18 months. we mated her onher third call and were unsuccessful unfortunately. if she keeps calling constntlyand starts to lose condition mate her.


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## Triggs (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm so glad I asked the question as you all have given such interesting and useful advice. I obviously don't want my girl to loose condition and suffer ill heath and now understand that having her calling too many times will lead to this. Having just had the one kitten she has bounced back very quickly and seems completely unfazed and back to normal and she's a very good Mum to her boy. I think I may now take the advice to mate her after her third call. I would rather not "put her on the pill" as there must be health risks attached to this too! Thanks for a great debate enabling me to see both sides of the coin! I just want what's best for my girl.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Saikou said:


> I am not sure I agree with Mother Nature intending cats to be permanently bare pawed and pregnant. However, if she did, she also wasn't intending them to live as long as we prefer our pampered queens to.


Well, Cats Protection at one time were telling everyone that queens would have three litters a year if left to their own devices? I think that would only happen if the kittens were removed at 6 weeks, I've never ever had a girl who could possibly have had more than two litters a year, but perhaps in a warmer climate they would call in the autumn as well as the rest of the year, which might make it up to three litters even if you didn't remove the kittens early?

Liz


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