# Giant fox caught and killed



## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

He really is a big un! 

Cat-killing four-foot fox caught by vet is 'biggest in the country' | Mail Online


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

Wow he was huge! Poor cat and poor fox though . I might get slated for this but I think it's a bit sad that because the fox killed a cat it was caught and pts by a vet . I really don't see where he was within his rights to do that. If i had seen a fox stalking my cat you can bloody well bet he wouldn't be let out again for a good while! The mind boggles . Sleep tight moggie and fox x


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## MissusMayhem (Aug 14, 2010)

Starlite said:


> He really is a big un!
> 
> Cat-killing four-foot fox caught by vet is 'biggest in the country' | Mail Online


bloody huge infact!! wow


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## shibby (Oct 3, 2010)

If I was that seven year old I would have been sobbing away!  Mr Fox was huge, may he rest in peace...


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

The competition is on now http://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/index.php/corporate-site-home/53-britains-biggest-foxes


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

God, some of those things are monsters.
As the owner of dogs less then half that size Im afraid Im all for culling monster urban foxes. They are already brave enough to barely register people, imagine if they are the size of a GSD too!!


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

aw poor cat but yeah geez why killl the fox


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## vickie1985 (Feb 18, 2009)

wow thats a bix fox, i wonder if it will get to a point where they will attack humans though? at the min ive always known them to run away.

Looks like they are turning into red wolves lol


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## Bandy (Sep 29, 2010)

Waterlily said:


> aw poor cat but yeah geez why killl the fox


Cuz he was runnin around the neighborhood eating pussies.
He wasn't too good at it though, he got caught and killed for his troubles.

You'd think a fox would be smarter than that.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

If its attacking domestic pets then sadly becomes a pest...it was killed humanely at least


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## vickie1985 (Feb 18, 2009)

Savahl said:


> If its attacking domestic pets then sadly becomes a pest...it was killed humanely at least


yeah i agree, if it killed my cats i would want it pts too.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

That "giant" fox looks like a normal sized fox to me. The one he holds up that is supposed to be normal size looks tiny, it's no bigger than a rabbit. The foxes that live next door are huge, they are bigger than Ollie and definitely much bigger than the "normal" sized fox in the photo. 

I think urban foxes are definitely bigger, they don't have to go hunting for food, it's all there for them so they don't use as much energy hunting anymore, so just get larger.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

I agree with killing the fox. They are pests, and they are becoming more and more dangerous.

Sure we can let them all live, so they can grow bigger, eat our dogs and babies. And no it's not being OTT, the more these stupid people feed them or leave bin bags outside instead of in plastic bins, the bigger they are gonna get, the hungrier they are going to get, and they will become more clever are getting bigger prey.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

NicoleW said:


> I agree with killing the fox. They are pests, and they are becoming more and more dangerous.
> 
> Sure we can let them all live, so they can grow bigger, eat our dogs and babies. And no it's not being OTT, the more these stupid people feed them or leave bin bags outside instead of in plastic bins, the bigger they are gonna get, the hungrier they are going to get, and they will become more clever are getting bigger prey.


*:lol::lol: lmao thats so NOT true.
My friend feeds the foxes in her garden every day without fail and they are no bigger than the usual fox.Oh and just to add,she has cats,the nieghbours have chickens and cats and none have come to any harm.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Savahl said:


> If its attacking domestic pets then sadly becomes a pest...it was killed humanely at least


But was it? (Attacking domestic pets?)

The paper only states "apparently" and only one cat mentioned, so I for one wouldn't take the claim as being necessarily true 

Aside .... That smug looking little kid, I'd be worried about any child of mine that could look so cheery next to a dead animal :scared:

And the vet :arf: He wouldn't be popular around here ...


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## ToddyxxMillie (Sep 22, 2008)

NicoleW said:


> I agree with killing the fox. They are pests, and they are becoming more and more dangerous.
> 
> Sure we can let them all live, so they can grow bigger, eat our dogs and babies. And no it's not being OTT, the more these stupid people feed them or leave bin bags outside instead of in plastic bins, the bigger they are gonna get, the hungrier they are going to get, and they will become more clever are getting bigger prey.


have to agree with you there. but i dont think it looks that big i thought thats the size they normally are?


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

NicoleW said:


> I agree with killing the fox. They are pests, and they are becoming more and more dangerous.
> 
> Sure we can let them all live, so they can grow bigger, eat our dogs and babies. And no it's not being OTT, the more these stupid people feed them or leave bin bags outside instead of in plastic bins, the bigger they are gonna get, the hungrier they are going to get, and they will become more clever are getting bigger prey.


Thats a little alarmist dont you think.... Certain papers like fear mongering and making devils out of people/animals/groups that dont deserve it.
Foxes may be pests in some situations, but the fact is we have no proof that "Giant" foxes are common place - or foxes that will attack cats or children.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *:lol::lol: lmao thats so NOT true.
> My friend feeds the foxes in her garden every day without fail and they are no bigger than the usual fox.Oh and just to add,she has cats,the nieghbours have chickens and cats and none have come to any harm.*


are you saying I'm lying??

just because your friend's foxes look normal sized, doesn't mean that the ones living near me aren't bigger. I live in London, got tons of foxes round here, all very large and definitely bigger than that "normal" sized fox in the photo. And I also don't agree with your friend feeding them either, that's why there's so many here, it's all easy food.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *:lol::lol: lmao thats so NOT true.
> My friend feeds the foxes in her garden every day without fail and they are no bigger than the usual fox.Oh and just to add,she has cats,the nieghbours have chickens and cats and none have come to any harm.*


I think it depends on the area you live in, we used to live in Manchester. And one morning we woke up to a fox in the garden, ripping the meshing off the rabbit cage. We saw him kill one, and took one alive, he had both in his mouth. We opened the door, threw things, shouted, he didn't budge.

Few months later, a bigger fox did the same to our guinea pigs.

My partner's sons live in Heathrow, and not too long ago they had a fox in their garden, so they let the dogs out to chase it. That one didn't budge either, they now keep the dogs in if there's one about. You can open the door and it'll sit there and stare at you.

I think it's irresponsible to feed foxes. Not only are you inviting them into your property, but think about your neighbours, what if one day you're not home and they decide they're gonna go next door and eat their cat?


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Poor fox, shame the laws of nature aren't weighted in his favour anymore because of our sentimentality about our pets 

If a cat kills my pet hamster (which next doors nearly did once) can i insist it is PTS on the grounds that it is a pest then 

Oh and the dog that killed my cat last year, should i really have stamped my feet until they were forced to have it put down despite the fact it was just following its instinct and quite frankly i would have rather they put the owner down for being a moron 

Nature is an ugly thing peeps. If a fox killed Oscar i would consider it a tragedy and of course i would be upset but i wouldn't call for a mass culling of all foxes in the area.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Savahl said:


> Thats a little alarmist dont you think.... Certain papers like fear mongering and making devils out of people/animals/groups that dont deserve it.
> Foxes may be pests in some situations, but the fact is we have no proof that "Giant" foxes are common place - or foxes that will attack cats or children.


What about the normal sized fox that got into the family house and attacked two twins in their cot for no reason?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> are you saying I'm lying??
> 
> just because your friend's foxes look normal sized, doesn't mean that the ones living near me aren't bigger. I live in London, got tons of foxes round here, all very large and definitely bigger than that "normal" sized fox in the photo. And I also don't agree with your friend feeding them either, that's why there's so many here, it's all easy food.


* i didn't realise i had said any thing to you.*


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> are you saying I'm lying??
> 
> just because your friend's foxes look normal sized, doesn't mean that the ones living near me aren't bigger. I live in London, got tons of foxes round here, all very large and definitely bigger than that "normal" sized fox in the photo. And I also don't agree with your friend feeding them either, that's why there's so many here, it's all easy food.


I see urban foxes around here, and croydon quite alot. Certainly more than I have previously, but they dont look big.

I occassionally see them around the South Bank area in london and they dont look particularly large either.

Not saying your lying... maybe its just pockets that are getting bigger?


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

NicoleW said:


> What about the normal sized fox that got into the family house and attacked two twins in their cot for no reason?


IF that was even a fox, its the first time its really been heard of so HIGHLY uncommon - that doesnt mean it is commonplace activity for foxes! There wasnt actually proof that it was a fox in the first place.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...by-twins-unprovoked-say-wildlife-experts.html < this article just demonstrates how rare it is, and how experts werent convinced anyway. The daily mail isnt gospel


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

From newspaper ~ "The new giant was caught by vet Keith Talbot at his parents' home in Maidstone, Kent, on Boxing Day after they told him they believed a fox had killed their black and white pet cat, Amber.

He said today: 'Obviously, they were very upset. Amber was 19 and liked sleeping on the front door mat.

'Dad had seen a fox come down the drive and stalk up to her a few nights before. He phoned me and said would a fox attack the cat? I said - perhaps a bit naively - I don't think so, she would wake up and see it off.

'A couple of days later, dad heard a commotion outside and looked up to see a fox disappearing up the drive and the next morning found parts of the cat on the lawn. Unfortunately, the family pet was no more.' "

Wouldn't you have thought that IF they seriously believed a fox was stalking their 19 year old cat outside the home, they would have kept her in? The weather has been freezing too, who in their right mind leaves a 19 year old cat sleeping outside on a doormat at night 

Nah, something not quite right about all this


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Savahl said:


> IF that was even a fox


Yes it was

BBC News - Mother&#039;s &#039;nightmare&#039; after baby twins &#039;mauled&#039; by fox


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

NicoleW said:


> Yes it was
> 
> BBC News - Mother's 'nightmare' after baby twins 'mauled' by fox


I am aware of the story. Read the article I posted. Shows the other opinions.

And as i stated, *IF* it was a fox it was a rare occurance...no indication of it being commonplace behaviour whatsoever.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Savahl said:


> And as i stated, *IF* it was a fox it was a rare occurance...no indication of it being commonplace behaviour whatsoever.


I think you have a point, yes IF it was a Fox 

Anyone else wondering if this vet is a member or supporter of any of the "Country Clubs" 

Oh, I do have such evil (but often correct) thoughts some times, shame on me hmy:


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Daily Fail and it's propaganda!!! I wish they could base their articles on fact instead of implication, i'd take more notice if their drivel wasn't littered with references such as "believed to be" 
"and fears that" 

Then there's the line at the bottom! "Don't stick your baby outside in the 'burbs!"  Like anyone would leave a baby outside in this day and age! 

They know exactly how Mr.Public will react to the scaremongering which is very convenient when the tories want a fox hunting ban repealed.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

NicoleW said:


> Yes it was
> 
> BBC News - Mother's 'nightmare' after baby twins 'mauled' by fox


That implies it was a fox, doesn't state it was a fox as fact.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

MissShelley said:


> They know exactly how Mr.Public will react to the scaremongering which is very convenient when the tories want a fox hunting ban repealed.


This is a good point. The trash mags are politically aligned, and will run certain stories to gain support for certain things.

Im not saying it definately WASNT a fox that attacked the cat. Nor am i saying it definately wasnt a fox that attacked the twins. Or that foxes are getting bigger.

But I have not seen sufficient evidence to back up these concepts, and the mail do like to demonise things - be it the evil immigrant, the baby killing staffys or the gaint foxes that will terrorise our homes.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> They know exactly how Mr.Public will react to the scaremongering which is very convenient when the tories want a fox hunting ban repealed.


Anyone else notice how conveniently this "giant fox" was killed on Boxing Day, my what a coincidence indeed 

Isn't the Boxing Day hunt one of the "highlights" of the hunting fraternity's calendar 

Seriously, do they think the British public are all gullible fools :hand:

If a beautiful animal had not been slaughtered, this would be :lol: as it stands it is a disgrace ...


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Poor Foxes. Why was the first Fox killed when it was totally innocent?! 

I feel sorry for the cat BUT... surely if you noticed something stalking your pet you wouldn't let it outside until the threat had passed... :confused1:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

RoseForTheDead said:


> I feel sorry for the cat BUT... surely if you noticed something stalking your pet you wouldn't let it outside until the threat had passed... :confused1:


Exactly what I posted, something all a bit "odd" about this "story"


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Anyone else notice how conveniently this "giant fox" was killed on Boxing Day, my what a coincidence indeed
> 
> Isn't the Boxing Day hunt one of the "highlights" of the hunting fraternity's calendar
> 
> ...


I noticed the timing as well, another convenience. And yes, the majority of people who read the Daily Fail, are gullible, hence them reading it in the first place...

It saddened me to see such a beautiful creature hung up like that! And i'm sorry to say if that was my kid stood next to it griining like a loon he'd of got a slap! And told to show a bit more respect to a creatures unfortunate demise.... Smug git!


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Once again, an animal suffers because of the stupidity of humankind.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> And i'm sorry to say if that was my kid stood next to it griining like a loon he'd of got a slap! And told to show a bit more respect to a creatures unfortunate demise.... Smug git!


Maybe, just maybe and yes I am surmising  
This child is not unfamiliar with a dead fox?

I know for sure that the children in our family, who love and respect animals, would be horrified, no heartbroken, to be asked to stand next to a dead fox that had been strung up like that. Maybe this child is not unfamiliar though with this kind of thing happening ... I cannot help but feel, we have only half the story (if that) here ... Just my thoughts.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Rip both foxes, if the fox needed to be pts because it was such a huge danger I can accept that, what I find hard to stomach is parading two dead foxes in a national paper, the smaller fox is tiny in comparrison to the usual foxes Ive seen, looks like a very young female maybe. At least hunters have the decency to admit what they do and be honest about it.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

What i dont understand is why people think this eye for an eye mentality only applies to certain circumstances or animals. Like i said if my neighbours cat had actually managed to kill my hamster when it got into my house and tried to trash the cage would i be right to insist it was PTS  When Billy (my cat) was killed in almost identical circumstances to this fox story except the killer was a dog should i have requested that all loose dogs in the area be culled  

These things are freak incidents (if this happened at all as i agree its a very "convenient" piece of scarmongering), they are tragedys just the same as a cat being hit by a car is, i bet there are thousands more incidents of cars killing cats but should we remove all cars from the roads


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Maybe, just maybe and yes I am surmising
> This child is not unfamiliar with a dead fox?
> 
> I know for sure that the children in our family, who love and respect animals, would be horrified, no heartbroken, to be asked to stand next to a dead fox that had been strung up like that. Maybe this child is not unfamiliar though with this kind of thing happening ... I cannot help but feel, we have only half the story (if that) here ... Just my thoughts.


You could very well be right! I mean he looks very comfortable stood there, I know like yours, my boys would be upset and horrified. That kid looks proud  I too think there is more to this than we are being told.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Maybe, just maybe and yes I am surmising
> This child is not unfamiliar with a dead fox?
> 
> I know for sure that the children in our family, who love and respect animals, would be horrified, no heartbroken, to be asked to stand next to a dead fox that had been strung up like that. Maybe this child is not unfamiliar though with this kind of thing happening ... I cannot help but feel, we have only half the story (if that) here ... Just my thoughts.


My son would have been mortified


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> What i dont understand is why people think this eye for an eye mentality only applies to certain circumstances or animals. Like i said if my neighbours cat had actually managed to kill my hamster when it got into my house and tried to trash the cage would i be right to insist it was PTS  When Billy (my cat) was killed in almost identical circumstances to this fox story except the killer was a dog should i have requested that all loose dogs in the area be culled
> 
> These things are freak incidents (if this happened at all as i agree its a very "convenient" piece of scarmongering), they are tragedys just the same as a cat being hit by a car is, i bet there are thousands more incidents of cars killing cats but should we remove all cars from the roads


a valid point.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Wow, it's a bit like de ja vu. 

I'm shaking my head that some people don't believe that after seeing two foxes in the area, and bits of a dead cat across the lawn, after a commotion had been heard at the front of the house, that people don't believe it was the fox. Really? What did you want, a signed confession slap on the paws and told not to do it again? 

I'm disgusted that people are questioning the fox attack on the twin girls. That family went through hell for reporting what had happened, and were persecuted by animal rights activists who had nothing better to do that sit on their behinds and pick on someone because of their animal rights beliefs. Only one of them had a part time job, the rest of them were carrying out their persecution at the benefit of the tax payer, thankfully all were brought to court and prosecuted eventually. 

Fox numbers are controlled all over the country all of the time, the same as other animals and birds that are/become a nuisance. It's the same old story, a newspaper report highlights one incident, and everyone jumps up and down because it's been put in the spotlight, exactly the same as when the Exmoor Emperor was shot, and touted to be the largest mammal in Britain, which was complete rubbish. 

That little boy will probably grow up with a much better understanding of nature than many others, and will at least respect animals, and understand how they live and die for our benefit.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Wow, it's a bit like de ja vu.
> 
> I'm shaking my head that some people don't believe that after seeing two foxes in the area, and bits of a dead cat across the lawn, after a commotion had been heard at the front of the house, that people don't believe it was the fox. Really? What did you want, a signed confession slap on the paws and told not to do it again?
> 
> ...


*Can i ask,how will killing a fox benefit us?*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Wow, it's a bit like de ja vu.
> 
> I'm shaking my head that some people don't believe that after seeing two foxes in the area, and bits of a dead cat across the lawn, after a commotion had been heard at the front of the house, that people don't believe it was the fox. Really? What did you want, a signed confession slap on the paws and told not to do it again?
> 
> ...




Why 

For me its the hypocrisy of this story that pisses me off, a fox killed a cat so we kill the fox because we can, should this attitude not apply to all of nature then 

I don't have a rose tinted view of the fox and the problems it can cause but in this instance i think it is wrong and you can't deny the timing is suspicious.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Wow, it's a bit like de ja vu.
> 
> I'm shaking my head that some people don't believe that after seeing two foxes in the area, and bits of a dead cat across the lawn, after a commotion had been heard at the front of the house, that people don't believe it was the fox. Really? What did you want, a signed confession slap on the paws and told not to do it again?
> 
> ...


The funny thing is, show them a blurry out of focus photo of a cat and they believe we have pumas running around the countryside in enough numbers to make a viable breeding population


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

I can still remember when you poor cat were murdered Rainybows!
Thinking of you sweetheart - this must have brought back dreadful memories to you
Sending you a hug
xxxxx


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> From newspaper ~ "The new giant was caught by vet Keith Talbot at his parents home in Maidstone, Kent, on Boxing Day after they told him they believed a fox had killed their black and white pet cat, Amber.
> 
> He said today: Obviously, they were very upset. Amber was 19 and liked sleeping on the front door mat.
> 
> ...


Yes that's what I thought. If I had a cat and saw a fox near her and knowing she was old and probably not as fast as other cats then I would definitely keep her in at night. She could have slept inside just as happily and the poor fox would have lived.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

It will certainly benefit the neighbours cats in that particular area. And hopefully any foxes there, will be that bit more wily and unwilling to approach humans.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

shibby said:


> If I was that seven year old I would have been sobbing away!  Mr Fox was huge, may he rest in peace...


And me  He looked so Happy  Why?

So 'urban' Foxes... Are we now going to get Hunt/Dogs Racing through the towns now Hunting them down..

Foxes have moved to Towns/Citie's...Will the hunt follow?..Yes May a Silly Question but Stranger things have happened.

Well there reason is they are keeping then down for Farmers will the New reason to protect our pets?

I Do feel so sorry for the Cat and the family who lost it?

Maybe to protect local pet cats the Fox did have to be caught But could'nt it have been relocated or even be put in a Wildlife Santury Did it Really have to be killed.

Surely there was some other solution.

Seem to me the only solution these Days is kill kill kill.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Wow, it's a bit like de ja vu.
> 
> I'm shaking my head that some people don't believe that after seeing two foxes in the area, and bits of a dead cat across the lawn, after a commotion had been heard at the front of the house, that people don't believe it was the fox. Really?
> 
> That little boy will probably grow up with a much better understanding of nature than many others, and will at least respect animals, and understand how they live and die for our benefit.


But we didn't see it did we 

All I have heard is an account which makes me question why owners who "believed" that foxes were stalking their 19 year old cat, still allowed it to sleep outside on a mat in freezing conditions? 
A commotion was heard, which it seems didn't even prompt them to look outside ... or they would have found cat then surely?

Nope, all a bit strange 

As for that child, well to be honest it worries me considerably what exposing children to wanton animal abuse and perhaps worse "normalising and excusing" it does for their emotional development 

I would personally rather have children grow up respecting animals and the environment 

No, as I said, despite what some may like to think, the majority of the British public are not taken in by silly stories and half baked excuses :hand:

The majority, thankfully find these articles insulting to their intelligence and they simply endorse and strengthen their opinion of those concerned ... and they aren't high opinions


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

hawksport said:


> The funny thing is, show them a blurry out of focus photo of a cat and they believe we have pumas running around the countryside in enough numbers to make a viable breeding population


I hope when you say "them" you aren't including all of us who think this was a bit hypocritical and unecessary, my logic and reasoning are working just fine thanks 



DoubleTrouble said:


> I can still remember when you poor cat were murdered Rainybows!
> Thinking of you sweetheart - this must have brought back dreadful memories to you
> Sending you a hug
> xxxxx


Thanks DT it was a freak incident and very upsetting but at least he wouldn't have felt any pain, it was very quick apparently  Certainly not the way i would have wanted the old boy to go but he had done his fair share of hunting in his day. The blame lies firmly with the dogs owners in that instance. Last i heard they were being prosecuted.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

snoopydo said:


> And me  He looked so Happy  Why?
> 
> So 'urban' Foxes... Are we now going to get Hunt/Dogs Racing through the towns now Hunting them down..
> 
> ...


I'm not picking on you hun, but using your post just to highlight something, but no, it isn't these days. It has always been the way, we control pretty much all animal numbers, particularly when they come into contact with us, either directly, or indirectly. It's how we do it that's important, and in this case, the fox was shot cleanly and humanely. To have taken it out to the countryside and re-released it would have been cruel and just moved a problem to another area. Foxes are beautiful creatures, and thrive very well in our country, but they can and do become a nuisance, and you can't teach a fox not to kill, it's what they are designed for.

Edited to add, the only thing that HAS changed is how the media pick up on and blow these stories out of proportion.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Thanks DT it was a freak incident and very upsetting but at least he wouldn't have felt any pain, it was very quick apparently  Certainly not the way i would have wanted the old boy to go but he had done his fair share of hunting in his day. The blame lies firmly with the dogs owners in that instance. Last i heard they were being prosecuted.


I hope they are prosecuted Rainybow, and rightly so


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

I am not saying the incidents definitely weren't foxes...but there have been occasions were foxes have been blamed for the actions of pet dogs, for example.

The cat being killed was more than likely a fox. However, I dont think the hysteria the mail like to generate is required as it was a one off. Yes that fox needed to be removed to protect local pets - but why get it published in a national paper to generate a hate campaign? Just get on with it... Pest control did their job as they do every day of the year.



ETA: I dont agree with the methods of animal right activists, and have had my fair share of crap from them myself.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It will certainly benefit the neighbours cats in that particular area. And hopefully any foxes there, will be that bit more wily and unwilling to approach humans.


As Billy was the 2nd cat this dog had killed i assume he should have been PTS too then ?? Actually it was 2 dogs hunting as a pair so both should go then surely, or just the one who killed him ??

You still havent answered why this child will have a better understanding of nature by standing grinning like a loon beside a dead fox


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It will certainly benefit the neighbours cats in that particular area. And hopefully any foxes there, will be that bit more wily and unwilling to approach humans.


Not if they have killed the "wrong" fox ... (If indeed a cat was killed.)

You can't seriously believe that other foxes in the area will be aware of what has happened can you? If you are, I find that quite worrying and it shows how little you understand animals and their behaviour


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> But we didn't see it did we
> 
> All I have heard is an account which makes me question why owners who "believed" that foxes were stalking their 19 year old cat, still allowed it to sleep outside on a mat in freezing conditions?
> A commotion was heard, which it seems didn't even prompt them to look outside ... or they would have found cat then surely?
> ...


Yes they did see, it, and if you look closely, it's in the photo, it's a big fox 

Just because children are involved with field sports does not mean they are taught to abuse animals, and I actually find that comment very insulting. Had my little boy survived, he would have been immersed in a countryside way of life and grown up hunting and shooting, and taught to respect the value of life.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I hope when you say "them" you aren't including all of us who think this was a bit hypocritical and unecessary, my logic and reasoning are working just fine thanks


I haven't seen you say it's not a bigger than average fox or that it didn't kill the cat. I agree with most of what you say


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> From newspaper ~ "The new giant was caught by vet Keith Talbot at his parents home in Maidstone, Kent, on Boxing Day after they told him they believed a fox had killed their black and white pet cat, Amber.
> 
> He said today: Obviously, they were very upset. Amber was 19 and liked sleeping on the front door mat.
> 
> ...


Exactly ...... If They Had Seen his They should have kept the cat in... Also They 'Believe' a Fox had killed the Cat ......Was if Proven That it was This Fox?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Savahl said:


> I Yes that fox needed to be removed to protect local pets -


Why? There is no proof it was the fox that actually killed their cat ...

It's the same when a shark kills (no not off topic) they hunt one down, display it strung up like the fox, but have no real way of knowing it was the ACTUAL one  But never mind, those of a lesser mind are assured that justice has been seen to be done 

Anyway, this is all too coincidental, my hubby laughed out loud at the timing of this fox being killed, though not the foxes slaughter 

Some people will always think we are as daft as them.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> [/B]
> 
> Why
> 
> ...


*We have a heron that keeps coming in the garden just beyond our house nicking peoples fish,he's been back again this morning.I would hate to think herons would be treated as badly as foxes.Nature is nature until us humans decide differently.*


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Just my two pennenth followed by a couple of questions!

The fox is getting much much braver, no favours are being done to it by man putting out food and scraps for it! Many will say that the fox is being forced into our cities because its natural habitat has been removed or that they are starving! Question - could it not be that the foxes are going where they can find an endless supply of food?

Secondly!
Not really for here I know
I do not know the fox population , but undertand the survival rate of their young is on the increase - this can only mean that with more foxes they are going to need more food, does this not put other wildlife at risk as the fox population increases? And who i the predetator of the fox? The eagle? what else ??- surely if it is left to multiply with no natural predetors then other wildlife could become endangered.

Sorry to have crashed your thread OP! but just GENUINELY curious to see what others views on this are please?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Not if they have killed the "wrong" fox ... (If indeed a cat was killed.)
> 
> You can't seriously believe that other foxes in the area will be aware of what has happened can you? If you are, I find that quite worrying and it shows how little you understand animals and their behaviour


Nice, shows how little you know of me and understand animals yourself


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *We have a heron that keeps coming in the garden just beyond our house nicking peoples fish,he's been back again this morning.I would hate to think herons would be treated as badly as foxes.Nature is nature until us humans decide differently.*


We put a net over our pond after we lost a lovely fish!! but we still see the heron go over!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Yes they did see, it, and if you look closely, it's in the photo, it's a big fox
> 
> Just because children are involved with field sports does not mean they are taught to abuse animals, and I actually find that comment very insulting. Had my little boy survived, he would have been immersed in a countryside way of life and grown up hunting and shooting, and taught to respect the value of life.


Now my Nephew has been brought up in exactly that way and in fairness he has a very sensible yet sensitive approach to nature etc so i agree with that BUT there is nothing to suggest in this instance that is the case because i fundamentaly disagree that in this instance the slaughter of that fox was justified.



hawksport said:


> I haven't seen you say it's not a bigger than average fox or that it didn't kill the cat. I agree with most of what you say


Glad we agree


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## Nithnell (Aug 22, 2010)

but on that basis, they'd have been keeping the cat inside forever more?

Sadly, and i know this will probably make me very unpopular, but had a fox or a dog threatens my livestock or pets, my OH would take his rifle to it. It wouldn't be done lightly, and it's not something we like doing, but my stock comes first. i'm not sure if its the same down south, but farmers are allowed to despatch animals that worry livestock with the exception of badgers which are protected.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> We put a net over our pond after we lost a lovely fish!! but we still see the heron go over!


Once a heron finds you then they will always come back  We had one that plundered our pond a while back and even though we covered it it always returned.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Yes they did see, it, and if you look closely, it's in the photo, it's a big fox
> 
> Just because children are involved with field sports does not mean they are taught to abuse animals, and I actually find that comment very insulting. Had my little boy survived, he would have been immersed in a countryside way of life and grown up hunting and shooting, and taught to respect the value of life.


They never saw it attack their cat, just because it was in the area means nothing 

There are better ways of introducing children to respect the value of life. The children in my family were involved in animal rescue and welfare. They helped raise orphan kittens, birds that were injured, etc, etc, etc. They also learned about the sadder side too, we lost animals, had them pts and took in creatures who had been abused by man.

They have grown up well balanced and without the need to see animals killed as part of their hobbies or entertainment 

Children learn by example, for good or ill ...


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Just my two pennenth followed by a couple of questions!
> 
> The fox is getting much much braver, no favours are being done to it by man putting out food and scraps for it! Many will say that the fox is being forced into our cities because its natural habitat has been removed or that they are starving! Question - could it not be that the foxes are going where they can find an endless supply of food?
> 
> ...


I understand that predators regulate themselves. They grow/decrease in population in relation to their prey.

The best thing for us to do is to stop being so bloody messy and put our rubbish away so we don't encourage the foxes to eat our crap and then this sort of thing won't happen.

As usual it is our fault and the poor animals have to suffer.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> I noticed the timing as well, another convenience. And yes, the majority of people who read the Daily Fail, are gullible, hence them reading it in the first place...
> 
> It saddened me to see such a beautiful creature hung up like that! And i'm sorry to say if that was my kid stood next to it griining like a loon he'd of got a slap! And told to show a bit more respect to a creatures unfortunate demise.... Smug git!


:thumbup:Totally Agree I would never Allow a child of mine to be pictured Smiling next to a Dead Animal like that...Who is He?.... Just a kid to show how Big the Fox was... They Could have used an Object to demostrate the size..Not a Smiling kid.. What were is parents thinking  allowing this.

And I Also realised the relevent Date.....Strange!!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Nice, shows how little you know of me and understand animals yourself


Sleepylion .... Please explain how the foxes in the area will know, to stay away from people in the area? Do they read the Daily Mail? ... Nah, far too intelligent :lol:

The truth is, another fox will simply replace the fox killed in this neighbourhood 

Nature abhors a vacuum ...


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Nice, shows how little you know of me and understand animals yourself


I actually agree with you - animals are incredibly smart when it comes to survival and will "sense" things - even birds can figure things out annoyingly from a pest control point of view. And i can see how a successful trap would put the local foxes sense danger.

We have used traps for the pigeons at work before, and they only work so long as they have to be checked daily for humane reasons. The inflatable scarecrows only work for a few weeks before they get figured out by the seagulls!

[before i get shouted at for being involved in the removal of pigeons I work at a pharma factory and pigeons = poo and they just die anywhere, which leads to flys and bugs in the factory where we make and store medicines]


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Nithnell said:


> but on that basis, they'd have been keeping the cat inside forever more?
> 
> Sadly, and i know this will probably make me very unpopular, but had a fox or a dog threatens my livestock or pets, my OH would take his rifle to it. It wouldn't be done lightly, and it's not something we like doing, but my stock comes first. i'm not sure if its the same down south, but farmers are allowed to despatch animals that worry livestock with the exception of badgers which are protected.


Yes but i do think that is different to a fox being killed following one incident in which a cat sadly was killed.

Like my Cat/hamster analogy. My neighbours cat could have gone on to kill many more domestic pets so should it have been shot or was it simply following its instinct and therefore its my job to protect my animals from that ??

Even given that though, there was nothing i could have done to predict or prevent what happened to my cat, sometimes in life **** happens.

Also to add, could the increase in people keeping chickens in their back gardens not be contributing to the problems too ??


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> They never saw it attack their cat, just because it was in the area means nothing
> 
> There are better ways of introducing children to respect the value of life. The children in my family were involved in animal rescue and welfare. They helped raise orphan kittens, birds that were injured, etc, etc, etc. They also learned about the sadder side too, we lost animals, had them pts and took in creatures who had been abused by man.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but a dead cat and a big fox, in fact several foxes in the area, and they're bold enough to take a cat? What's your theory, did it step on a land mine?

Again, you've managed to actually be quite insulting, probably without meaning to, but obviously down to your very different views. Foxes aren't killed as a 'hobby', they're shot to control numbers, in the same way that a number of other species are. And it's done as humanely as possible by people who understand these animals a lot better than the vast majority of people, and they do actually admire and respect these animals, but I doubt many would believe that


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> :
> And I Also realised the relevent Date.....Strange!!


It's amazing isn't it, such exquisite timing :arf:

How can they expect themselves to be taken seriously, I ask you


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> Now my Nephew has been brought up in exactly that way and in fairness he has a very sensible yet sensitive approach to nature etc so i agree with that BUT there is nothing to suggest in this instance that is the case because i fundamentaly disagree that in this instance the slaughter of that fox was justified.


I do think that a lot depends, not only on age, but where and how you were brought up rainbows! OH is from a family that would catch the food for the table often out of necessity from a young age he has been subjected to amimal carcasses and involved in the preperation for the table !

I too was also brought up in the country as a child It never really bothered me! To me rabbit stew were the same as any other meal my mother would put in front of me! Dead chickens (normally bowling fowls) weren't summat that you brought from the supermarket but summat that came to your door as it were!

That said I went up the wall when there was a brace of bird hung at my door recently and insisted he took them to the shed! They were I add fed to the dogs !

But age Does play a big part as does ones upbrining ! and that is something that will be hard to alter - certainly for the past generations! OK! for the younger ones - tis easy - mainly because families can afford to BUY the meat for the table! but fifty years back that weren't ALWAYS the case!


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Guinevere13 said:


> I understand that predators regulate themselves. They grow/decrease in population in relation to their prey.
> 
> The best thing for us to do is to stop being so bloody messy and put our rubbish away so we don't encourage the foxes to eat our crap and then this sort of thing won't happen.
> 
> As usual it is our fault and the poor animals have to suffer.


Think maybe you have hit the nail there!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Just my two pennenth followed by a couple of questions!
> 
> The fox is getting much much braver, no favours are being done to it by man putting out food and scraps for it! Many will say that the fox is being forced into our cities because its natural habitat has been removed or that they are starving! Question - could it not be that the foxes are going where they can find an endless supply of food?


Yes



DoubleTrouble said:


> Secondly!
> Not really for here I know
> I do not know the fox population , but undertand the survival rate of their young is on the increase - this can only mean that with more foxes they are going to need more food, does this not put other wildlife at risk as the fox population increases? And who i the predetator of the fox? The eagle? what else ??- surely if it is left to multiply with no natural predetors then other wildlife could become endangered.
> 
> Sorry to have crashed your thread OP! but just GENUINELY curious to see what others views on this are please?


That isn't so easy to answer. Do predators control the prey population or does the prey population control the predators?
I doubt very much that eagles have any impact on fox numbers. A fox would be far too dangerous for a wild eagle to take on.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'm sorry but a dead cat and a big fox, in fact several foxes in the area, and they're bold enough to take a cat? What's your theory, did it step on a land mine?


You haven't answered my question  How can they possibly know they have killed the "guilty" fox? If they haven't what have they achieved do you think?

Also, please explain, if you can, why you believe killing that large fox will encourage other foxes to stay away from humans. As I said all that will happen is that another fox will claim it's territory. Maybe only to appear in the Mail next Boxing Day, by coincidence of course ...


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I do think that a lot depends, not only on age, but where and how you were brought up rainbows! OH is from a family that would catch the food for the table often out of necessity from a young age he has been subjected to amimal carcasses and involved in the preperation for the table !
> 
> I too was also brought up in the country as a child It never really bothered me! To me rabbit stew were the same as any other meal my mother would put in front of me! Dead chickens (normally bowling fowls) weren't summat that you brought from the supermarket but summat that came to your door as it were!
> 
> ...


Absolutely DT, i am a city girl by origin, everything i ate growing up came from a shop yet my Nephew is the son of a Gamekeeper so a very different experience which i truly respect and am proud that he will one day be a custodian for our beautiful Countryside


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Sleepylion .... Please explain how the foxes in the area will know, to stay away from people in the area? Do they read the Daily Mail? ... Nah, far too intelligent :lol:
> 
> The truth is, another fox will simply replace the fox killed in this neighbourhood
> 
> Nature abhors a vacuum ...


Why do you feel the need to change my username, really, it's just petty.

Yes, nature abhors a vacuum, but foxes are not stupid, any animal that is hunted becomes less trusting and wary of approaching humans. I think that's much better for the fox population overall, than allowing them to start eating our pets and livestock, even feeding them, and allowing numbers to become completely out of balance.

The classic illustration of this is in Africa, lions in Southern Africa are not wary of humans on foot (for the most part) and will hunt them. Go to Kenya/Tanzania, where they have been hunted as part of the ritual for men coming of age for many years, and lions are actually wary of humans on foot and will run away from them.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Sleepylion .... Please explain Nature abhors a vacuum ...


Not a very adult thing to do ! you seem to revel in taking the piss out of Sleeping Lion! 
Or you just lowering yourself to my standards Ametwit!
I expected better of you!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Yes, nature abhors a vacuum, but foxes are not stupid, any animal that is hunted becomes less trusting and wary of approaching humans.


But this fox was not hunted, in the usual sense of the word, it was trapped and killed. I am not saying local foxes may not be aware of it's death, but you seriously don't believe it will have a long term effect surely?

No, all that will happen is that another will take it's place, it's nature 

This killing has contributed nothing, apart from highlight the fact that people some will do anything for publicity  It's also made some look a little foolish into the bargain, the vet especially, one would have credited him with more sense.

The timing, oh the timing ...

Who was it said that there is no such thing as coincidence :lol:


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## Nithnell (Aug 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> Yes but i do think that is different to a fox being killed following one incident in which a cat sadly was killed.
> 
> Like my Cat/hamster analogy. My neighbours cat could have gone on to kill many more domestic pets so should it have been shot or was it simply following its instinct and therefore its my job to protect my animals from that ??
> 
> ...


possibly, the fox is going on the basis of easy pickings, so to speak, as would the cat in your analogy. There is a hypocrisy when it comes to animals. I very nearly lost one of my hamsters to one of my cats, due to my own stupidity of leaving the door ajar to the room in which they're kept. By my own rules, i should have shot my cat, but didn't,and wouldn't. Why, i can't answer that. I really don't know.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> But this fox was not hunted, in the usual sense of the word


the 2 foxes


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'm not picking on you hun, but using your post just to highlight something, but no, it isn't these days. It has always been the way, we control pretty much all animal numbers, particularly when they come into contact with us, either directly, or indirectly. It's how we do it that's important, and in this case, the fox was shot cleanly and humanely. To have taken it out to the countryside and re-released it would have been cruel and just moved a problem to another area. Foxes are beautiful creatures, and thrive very well in our country, but they can and do become a nuisance, and you can't teach a fox not to kill, it's what they are designed for.
> 
> Edited to add, the only thing that HAS changed is how the media pick up on and blow these stories out of proportion.


Iwas just thinking that maybe something else could've been down?

Or Maybe I have unrealistic Beliefs that all Animals / Creatures should have some rights to be allowed to live happily and in peace.. My thinking is in our society any Animal that is labelled a 'pest' only has one option and that is to Die. It's very sad actually. We are Supposed to be more intelligent than aminals. A idea that I frequently Question..so surely a Humans we ( Or the powers that be!) should be doing something more positive than only having ONE which at the mo is to kill them.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

does noone think its a coincidence he caught a small fox as well just so he could compare it to the big one??


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Nithnell said:


> possibly, the fox is going on the basis of easy pickings, so to speak, as would the cat in your analogy. There is a hypocrisy when it comes to animals. I very nearly lost one of my hamsters to one of my cats, due to my own stupidity of leaving the door ajar to the room in which they're kept. By my own rules, i should have shot my cat, but didn't,and wouldn't. Why, i can't answer that. I really don't know.


Similiar thing here, I used to have several cats and I remember once taking dogs out and then feeling I had not secured door to room where I had a rescue hamster and babies 

We ran home and, of course door was shut 
But what if it had not been and I had found a "massacre?" Would I have killed all my cats or just the one that I "suspected" ...

OR should I like the owners of this poor 19 year old cat that was left to sleep outside in freezing (exceptionally cold) weather, on a door mat, when they suspected it was being stalked by a "giant fox" .... Taken full responsibility MYSELF and not passed the blame onto an animal?

This story is a first class farce and most will realise this :thumbup:

(Obviously, I would not have hurt my cats and knew it was my responsibility to keep hammies safe.)


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> Iwas just thinking that maybe something else could've been down?
> 
> Or Maybe I have unrealistic Beliefs that all Animals / Creatures should have some rights to be allowed to live happily and in peace.. *My thinking is in our society any Animal that is labelled a 'pest' only has one option and that is to Die.* It's very sad actually. We are Supposed to be more intelligent than aminals. A idea that I frequently Question..so surely a Humans we ( Or the powers that be!) should be doing something more positive than only having ONE which at the mo is to kill them.


This is not true. I spent 18 months working around pest control, and kill was always the last option when nothing else worked. And that's in an environment where pests are taken very very seriously - they could cost a factory hundreds of thousands of pounds if out of control


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

On this occasion the family are to blame! they knew the cat was there! they SHOULD have brought the cat in! Simple as that!
So do make you wonder if it were a ploy to get some media coverage does it not!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> On this occasion the family are to blame! they knew the cat was there! they SHOULD have brought the cat in! Simple as that!
> So do make you wonder if it were a ploy to get some media coverage does it not!


Glaringly obvious, but desperate people do desperate things (for "anti fox" publicity)  :lol: :lol::lol:

Again, it just confirms peoples opinions ....


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Such a shame the fox had to be PTS -  and the kid standing there for a picture imo is just bad taste - I would not have condoned that - have to agree with what Rainybow said in an earlier post - cats eat wildlife all the time mine has bought me the odd mouse etc so should he be pts?? the fox was doing what is natural to him hunting for his food - I would of course be devastated if this happened to my cat BUT would not blame the fox - its my choice to let my cat out hence any danger/risks are really my fault.

Also Im not sure why people keep blaming the foxes for getting more and more dangerous and coming closer to where we live ??? its our fault -we are taking their habitats and we are not dealing with our rubbish correctly its US that need to change -they are just adapting to survive.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Natik said:


> does noone think its a coincidence he caught a small fox as well just so he could compare it to the big one??


Yes.....Where Did he Get The Smaller Dead one from....Blue peter...Sprung to mind ''Here's one I Killed Earlier''


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Savahl said:


> This is not true. I spent 18 months working around pest control, and kill was always the last option when nothing else worked. And that's in an environment where pests are taken very very seriously - they could cost a factory hundreds of thousands of pounds if out of control


I may Not be True to you.....But my Beliefs / Ideas are True to me


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> Yes.....Where Did he Get The Smaller Dead one from....Blue peter...Sprung to mind ''Here's one I Killed Earlier''


Seem to have some contacts within the hunting community eh 
Wow, another coincidence


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Seem to have some contacts within the hunting community eh
> Wow, another coincidence


No explation at all Why The Small one had to Die was there?


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> Yes.....Where Did he Get The Smaller Dead one from....Blue peter...Sprung to mind ''Here's one I Killed Earlier''


apparantly he cought it in the trap the first night and the big one the second night 

Far too coincidantal for my liking.

Sounds to me like he had his eyes on the big one for a while and knew he will make news by catching it, and it would help to have a small one there for comparison too when the newspapers arrive to take pictures


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

funny how mr. talbots friend also shot a fox he thought was the biggest one, which he said he was trying to get for a while.

Couldnt it be a competition between those 2 friends who gets the biggest one?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Natik said:


> funny how mr. talbots friend also shot a fox he thought was the biggest one, which he said he was trying to get for a while.
> 
> Couldnt it be a competition between those 2 friends who gets the biggest one?


There's a £90 camo jacket as a prize for whoever gets the biggest fox


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> I may Not be True to you.....But my Beliefs / Ideas are True to me


i wouldnt say its "true to me" Its not really an opinion i hold, it is what I have experianced in real life pest control on a site where we have a range of wildlife (we have our own section of woodland). Pigeons, seagulls, rats, mice, squirrels, foxes...
(its a 35 acre site, with a large protected woodland area)
The only times we have had to apply kill techniques were a handful of rat incidents, and an out of control pigeon incident. That is not my personal decision, but that made by the pest control company . And they are one of the major pest control firms in this part of the country


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Wow, some of you lot are better then the Daily Mail for making up your own stories!!:lol:
As for the poor kid, he is growing up in a hunting family doesnt make him Cruella de Villes lovechild. I had a suburban upbringing but if you wanted meat on the table you went out shot it, skinned it, gutted it and cooked it. My first experience of cute fluffy bunnies was in pieces in the back yard. I dont think it has made me evil or callous just pragmatic about wildlife.
I dont see what is wrong with killing large animals that have become a pest. I would rather the smaller timid foxes lived and bred to prevent further hostility againest them in the long run.
Sure it is probably mans fault for being wasteful and messy but as we arent all going to kill ourselves that is a pointless arguement. Pragmatic, see?


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> That smug looking little kid, I'd be worried about any child of mine that could look so cheery next to a dead animal :scared:


I would be alarmed a child of mine could show no sign of compassion, To be so proud of an animal been slaughtered at that age, is disturbing.



RAINYBOW said:


> What i dont understand is why people think this eye for an eye mentality only applies to certain circumstances or animals.


I agree mate


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

catz4m8z said:


> Wow, some of you lot are better then the Daily Mail for making up your own stories!!:lol:
> As for the poor kid, he is growing up in a hunting family doesnt make him Cruella de Villes lovechild. I had a suburban upbringing but if you wanted meat on the table you went out shot it, skinned it, gutted it and cooked it. My first experience of cute fluffy bunnies was in pieces in the back yard. I dont think it has made me evil or callous just pragmatic about wildlife.
> I dont see what is wrong with killing large animals that have become a pest. I would rather the smaller timid foxes lived and bred to prevent further hostility againest them in the long run.
> Sure it is probably mans fault for being wasteful and messy but as we arent all going to kill ourselves that is a pointless arguement. Pragmatic, see?


There are lots of things that are mans fault in this world the argument is not pointless though it is about awareness as with any problem - you highlight it and educate - things can only change when this happens imo.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Wonder what the clients think about this vets antics? It seems his page has been removed from the Eden Vets, Fife website .... not good publicity for a veterinary surgery really ... Guess they will be trying to play it down?


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> From newspaper ~ "The new giant was caught by vet Keith Talbot at his parents home in Maidstone, Kent, on Boxing Day after they told him they believed a fox had killed their black and white pet cat, Amber.
> 
> He said today: Obviously, they were very upset. Amber was 19 and liked sleeping on the front door mat.
> 
> ...


+1:thumbsup:

Sorry but yes the cat enjoyed laying outside but its freezing cold and if the owner had seen the fox then if he had a "brain" then would'nt he of kept it in

How did they know that the fox did attack the cat anyhow? did anyone see this happen? I understand the owner stated he heard something but unless someone did "witness" it then poor old Basil might not of been the one.

Also holding two foxes up like "oh look at this big one" its not a freaking freak show nor a couple of caught pike in a local fish comp is it. We ALL know what a fox looks like dont we


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I used to have cats.. A couple you couldn't keep in at night for love nor money.. they were just happier outside.. And if I did try to keep them in they scratched at the door and generally were quite stressed...

Now Im not saying I know the fox killed the cat..
Now if that was your cat and you had seen that fox.. And foxes dont just work at night.... Now say you then found bits of the cat on your lawn... Now you have neighbours who keep rabbits but you keep quiet about the fox.. And two days later your neighbour tells you the rabbit run was ripped to pieces and the kids rabbits were in bits over their back garden... And then you mentioned to your neighbour about your cat and seeing the fox two days before.. How do you think your neighbour would feel about you and your knowledge of the fox on the prowl...

Id be pretty naffed off if it was my neighbour!

Now I dont think the fox is much longer then the average fox but its obviously a lot heavier... 

Rainybow Im sorry about your cat.. You obviously know my ex's dog.. Ziggy was PTS not long ago due to a killing spree.. My mouse, a budgie, attacking the neighbours cat, Its speding several hours out of hit head in a frenzy after seing a cat on my wall... And then finally killing a cat in someones house... And personally the dogs who dit that to your cat should have been dealt with.. And I dont mean PTS the owner should have been dealt with and if the dogs can't be trusted should be muzzeled/re homed to responsible owners..


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

Good lord, this isn't too far from us- I'm glad my tig is an indoor girl- she'd only be a mouthful to that poor beast. I'd imagine the size is down to genetic anomaly rather than food in that foxes case, surely? Even if as a species the foxes are getting bigger, as the saying goes- one swallow does not make a summer!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> No explation at all Why The Small one had to Die was there?


Its said he caught the small one on the first night.. Im sure it said that?


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

My cats are indoor cats and have access to an enclosure, they are happy and content, hell If I lived in an area where there was danger to my girls theres no way in hell they would be outdoor cats.


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## pamela Renfrew (Jun 9, 2010)

Wow....... Some size of fox....... would love to see them that size where i live in the middle of no-where in the country and not in London or towns...... x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

As far as I'm concerned we are the reason foxes come into towns ad so it's our problem if they harm our pets. Very hypocritical to have killed it I feel. Rainybow you speak an awful lot of sense


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Foxes are beautiful animals. They are not pests as people seem to think.
They eat slugs and rats and other vermin. I know they catch chickens and rabbits and that is not nice, but there are ways of keeping them out of your garden and your livestock, pets.
There is a group called the FOX PROJECT and if you need help with foxes in your garden or allotment they can help you without hurting the fox.
Also if you find a fox injured or has mange they can help too.
I feel very sorry for the family that has lost their cat but as others say i would have kept her in.
It's just a pity more thought was not put into how to deal with this fox without murdering it.
You can google the FOX PROJECT and the address and phone numbers will come up.
They also do one day seminars. where they have a talk and then show you round the hospital for injured foxes.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Savahl said:


> i wouldnt say its "true to me" Its not really an opinion i hold, it is what I have experianced in real life pest control on a site where we have a range of wildlife (we have our own section of woodland). Pigeons, seagulls, rats, mice, squirrels, foxes...
> (its a 35 acre site, with a large protected woodland area)
> The only times we have had to apply kill techniques were a handful of rat incidents, and an out of control pigeon incident. That is not my personal decision, but that made by the pest control company . And they are one of the major pest control firms in this part of the country


Not Arguing but you said My opinion wasnt true.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Its said he caught the small one on the first night.. Im sure it said that?


So what did the small one do to get itself a Death Sentence?

people think they can go around killing Animals for the sheer Hell of it.... we live in a very sad world... 

It's a Vicious circle Fox kills cat..Man kills Fox... mmmmmm  Where's the Eye for a Eye Logic for Humans who kill the Animals? for the hell of it.

Man created these Rules NOT Animals ..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> So what did the small one do to get itself a Death Sentence?
> 
> people think they can go around killing Animals for the sheer Hell of it.... we live in a very sad world...
> 
> ...


Unfortunately where there is man.. there is death.. man is the evilest of the beasts..


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> The classic illustration of this is in Africa, lions in Southern Africa are not wary of humans on foot (for the most part) and will hunt them. Go to Kenya/Tanzania, where they have been hunted as part of the ritual for men coming of age for many years, and lions are actually wary of humans on foot and will run away from them.


With a very few exceptions, all lions, even full grown males, will run from humans approaching them on foot. Generally, lions will only attack if cornered or have very young cubs. There are some isolated reports of maneating or "specialist" lions in some parts of Africa, but lions do not, as a rule, hunt humans. They are, however, like foxes, opportunistic, if the human victim happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There are very few places in Africa where lions have not come into contact with humans at one time or another, and they fear them. They are often OK with approaching vehciles because they do not necessarily associate the vehicles with humans.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Unfortunately where there is man.. there is death.. man is the evilest of the beasts..


Sometimes I feel very Ashamed to be classe in the Same species Bracket to Tbh....


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I would guess that the "giant" fox is just a fully grown mature one. Foxes lifespans are greatly reduced with not many reaching >2 years in the town. So many seen are just really youngsters or "teenagers" and not fully adult at all.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

I Guess that one was lucky to have Reached full Adulthood..only to be met with a Sad end and Being Hung-up with a Grinning Boy besides him.

A pic I hopefully Hope The Boy won't be so proud of when he Grows up.


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

If anyone on here has toy dogs or cats and thinks urban foxes should be culled to protect their pets, heres an eye opener for you! It's YOUR job to protect YOUR pets. They are wildlife, they have as much reason to be there as anyone! Does that mean if a cat killed a pet bunny then we should go about culling the neighbourhood cats ? No. If you let your cat out, you take a risk of it getting killed by a car, another animal, or even a sicko cat hater. Same with toy dogs, if you let them in the garden unsupervised and it gets killed by a fox then you only have yourself to blame imo! It's funny though i live in an urban area and there are quite a few foxes around here that we see quite alot - they freeze when they see people and only seem to come out at night. I have a cat who is pretty small, and likes being outside most of the time. He goes to the field where the foxes live and has been doing so for the past 4 years or something ? You'd think if urban foxes were that bad, he'd maybe have been eaten by now . Not to mention the fact that they never raid our bins? The only things that raid our bins are birdies when its a bit too full and open a bit. Birdie cull anyone  ? 









ps. my last comment was sarcastic before anyone starts :lol:


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> If anyone on here has toy dogs or cats and thinks urban foxes should be culled to protect their pets, heres an eye opener for you!* It's YOUR job to protect YOUR pets*. They are wildlife, they have as much reason to be there as anyone! Does that mean if a cat killed a pet bunny then we should go about culling the neighbourhood cats ? No. If you let your cat out, you take a risk of it getting killed by a car, another animal, or even a sicko cat hater. Same with toy dogs, if you let them in the garden unsupervised and it gets killed by a fox then you only have yourself to blame imo! It's funny though i live in an urban area and there are quite a few foxes around here that we see quite alot - they freeze when they see people and only seem to come out at night. I have a cat who is pretty small, and likes being outside most of the time. He goes to the field where the foxes live and has been doing so for the past 4 years or something ? You'd think if urban foxes were that bad, he'd maybe have been eaten by now . Not to mention the fact that they never raid our bins? The only things that raid our bins are birdies when its a bit too full and open a bit. Birdie cull anyone  ?
> 
> ps. my last comment was sarcastic before anyone starts :lol:


rep for ya well said :thumbup:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

I can't see many foxes being willing to take on a healthy adult cat.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

And we wouldn't hear about half these incidents if people didn't insist on feeding them in their back gardens to attract them...


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## tinamary (Aug 17, 2008)

Its another victory for the ho har henrys. They are still raw about the ban and will love this. There will be an outcry now that foxhunting should be brought back.

I have had cats all my life and we live right in the country where foxes come into our front gardens. My cats have never been harmed. One got run over by a car outside the house. Blow up all the cars i say. lol

I think we should name and shame the vet who would put a beautiful healthy wild animal to sleep on the basis that IT MIGHT have eaten a cat.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

tinamary said:


> One got run over by a car outside the house. Blow up all the cars i say. lol


That made me laugh :lol: :lol: thats about how ridiculous it is too.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

hawksport said:


> I can't see many foxes being willing to take on a healthy adult cat.


I agree, I have seen two adult cats corner a fox.
I think an ailing, older or young cat may be different, but a fox doesn't want to get hurt, so would only attack if he felt sure of a meal with as little problem as possible.


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> And we wouldn't hear about half these incidents if people didn't insist on feeding them in their back gardens to attract them...


I do agree with that - we don't feed the foxes around here. We feed the birds, but we don't feed the foxes and there has never been a problem with the foxes here. They are wary of human beings, they only seem to come out at night and they don't eat cats or rabbits ect. x


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

tinamary said:


> Its another victory for the ho har henrys. They are still raw about the ban and will love this. There will be an outcry now that foxhunting should be brought back.
> 
> I have had cats all my life and we live right in the country where foxes come into our front gardens. My cats have never been harmed. One got run over by a car outside the house. Blow up all the cars i say. lol
> 
> I think we should name and shame the vet who would put a beautiful healthy wild animal to sleep on the basis that IT MIGHT have eaten a cat.


I don't see it as a victory for the pro hunters, personally, it's simply made everyone involved with this fiasco look bit of a fool (or a lot of a fool) Not least the vet who is actually named as Keith Talbot in the article ...


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

The RSPCA thought Roy lupton was a fool when they took a Golden Eagle of him that was ready to be released and then killed it


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> The RSPCA thought Roy lupton was a fool when they took a Golden Eagle of him that was ready to be released and then killed it


Sorry don't understand  No idea who Roy Lupton is what he has to do with this, never heard of the guy?


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

When I was a childone of our cat had its nose partly bitten off! it was believed that a rat did it - but no-one saw it happen son that was only an assumption


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Sorry don't understand  No idea who Roy Lupton is what he has to do with this, never heard of the guy?


He is one of the people you are calling a fool. Didn't you read the article?


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> When I was a childone of our cat had its nose partly bitten off! it was believed that a rat did it - but no-one saw it happen son that was only an assumption


Poor kitty  - Cull the rats :lol:? We may have some trouble finding them all though  x


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> I do agree with that - we don't feed the foxes around here. We feed the birds, but we don't feed the foxes and there has never been a problem with the foxes here. They are wary of human beings, they only seem to come out at night and they don't eat cats or rabbits ect. x


We have a family of them round here.. I think they live either on Sankey Valley Park or down the brook.. they have a right to live there.. But people shouldn't be encouraging them onto the estates.. And unfortunately leaving litter and rubbish about is doing just this.. TBO this fox I have seen I did say on the thread it trotted past me I thought it was a small terrier, Sun was shining brightly in my face down an alley.. only as it got passed me I realised it was a fox.. I stopped walked to the begin of entry it was aware I was there had a sniff then happily had a shite in front of me.. So he really wasn't afraid of me.. and this was in broad day light.. Put it is in a poor state and I dont see it living out the winter unless it has somewhere warm to sleep...


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> Poor kitty  - Cull the rats :lol:? We may have some trouble finding them all though  x


Arn't they all on pet forums:thumbup::thumbup::

Only yoking guys!:scared::scared:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> He is one of the people you are calling a fool. Didn't you read the article?


If the cap fits ...


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Beautiful animal, shame its life was taken!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

We don't have huge fox problems around here but do have coyote problems they come into town when their food source is short and prey on our cats and dogs. Wow guess what we do we don't leave our dogs or cats out at night if one does get out cat that is we know its a chance we take. Would I go hunt down the coyote responsible be kinda hard they are usually in packs and to be honest its no different than my cats keeping the mice out of my house... sad situation all around for cat and fox


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Beautiful animal, shame its life was taken!


I agree, but at least it's slaughter has not been in total vain, it's shown some people to be very manipulative and illustrated how stupid they must think the British Public are if they believe we could be so easily taken in by this cock and bull story 

I have a feeling this vet will live to regret these actions, if he lived around here, he would be out of a job I think ...


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> If the cap fits ...


I'd call someone who commented on an article without reading it first a fool


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> I'd call someone who commented on an article without reading it first a fool


Well it seems they have nothing to do with fox killing then?


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

To people saying don't feed the foxes in your garden etc etc... What about people who keep livestock! ( Yes I know a few people ) living in suburban areas keeping chickens in the gardens? Encouraged by the likes of Jamie Oliver. 

Would you now class that as feeding the foxes. It's certainly encourages them to the suburban area, people saying they scavenge out of bins, well maybe they do in some areas, but around here you have to keep your bin lid closed and your not allowed to dump bin bags on the street.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

canuckjill said:


> We don't have huge fox problems around here but do have coyote problems they come into town when their food source is short and prey on our cats and dogs. Wow guess what we do we don't leave our dogs or cats out at night if one does get out cat that is we know its a chance we take. Would I go hunt down the coyote responsible be kinda hard they are usually in packs and to be honest its no different than my cats keeping the mice out of my house... sad situation all around for cat and fox


aw yeah I am lucky where I am the most threat to my cats would be stray dogs or been stolen for food  :lol: Our foxes dont venture in to our cities, they stay on the outskirts, the only time we see them is after they have been run over on bush roads tbh.


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## tinamary (Aug 17, 2008)

To be quiet honest i looked at the article and didn't see that name either. I must not have digested all it said. I was too disgusted with the picture of the child laughing.
My children would have been distraught at the thought of wildlife being killed because it might have ..........


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> To people saying don't feed the foxes in your garden etc etc... What about people who keep livestock! ( Yes I know a few people ) living in suburban areas keeping chickens in the gardens? Encouraged by the likes of Jamie Oliver.
> 
> Would you now class that as feeding the foxes. It's certainly encourages them to the suburban area, people saying they scavenge out of bins, well maybe they do in some areas, but around here you have to keep your bin lid closed and your not allowed to dump bin bags on the street.


It's kind of the same with keeping rabbits in a hutch - although i'm sure chickens are more appealing to them! None of the rabbits around here have been touched though, don't get me wrong i'm sure the foxes have tried but the rabbits are well enclosed, any chickens should be the same i think. I don't mind foxes coming into the estate ect, they never seem to raid the bins here or kill an pets, but I don't really think people should be feeding them willingly. Although my granny does through food over her back fence into the little overgrown field for them :lol: x


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

tinamary said:


> To be quiet honest i looked at the article and didn't see that name either. I must not have digested all it said. I was too disgusted with the picture of the child laughing.
> My children would have been distraught at the thought of wildlife being killed because it might have ..........


It's the guy holding up the little dead fox 

No mention AT ALL of golden eagles mind you, so no idea what he has to do with them or why he would have one in his possession? They are a protected species, so I have no idea why he should have one, to be taken off him???


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> It's the guy holding up the little dead fox
> 
> No mention AT ALL of golden eagles mind you, so no idea what he has to do with them or why he would have one in his possession? They are a protected species, so I have no idea why he should have one, to be taken off him???


"During the trip his friend's female golden eagle became locked in a fight with a wild golden eagle. Mr Lupton, 34, a member of the Hawk Board, which represents 25,000 falconers, and an expert for Fieldsports TV, thought that the injuries to the wild bird were so serious that it would need veterinary treatment. It had suffered serious damage to the area of the chest where food is stored and near the eyes."

"Mr Lupton sought permission from the Scottish Executive to remove the bird and nurse her at his specialist premises at Hollingsbourne. Without authority he would be liable to a £5,000 fine and up to six months in prison for removing a bird from the wild."


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

YouTube - The colossal 26lb fox

Sick f*cker.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> It's kind of the same with keeping rabbits in a hutch - although i'm sure chickens are more appealing to them! None of the rabbits around here have been touched though, don't get me wrong i'm sure the foxes have tried but the rabbits are well enclosed, any chickens should be the same i think. I don't mind foxes coming into the estate ect, they never seem to raid the bins here or kill an pets, but I don't really think people should be feeding them willingly. Although my granny does through food over her back fence into the little overgrown field for them :lol: x


That's my point... You rarely hear of foxes in the media catching the pet rabbits/chickens, because if ya dafe enough to not secure them properly, nature is only doing as intended etc, so I can't see how people can say that feeding them encourages them to attack. Because like all animals, they go where the food is, and they aren't daft creatures.


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> That's my point... You rarely hear of foxes in the media catching the pet rabbits/chickens etc, so I can't see how people can say that feeding them encourages them to attack. Because like all animals, they go where the food is, and they aren't daft creatures.


I suppose that is right! I mean no foxes have killed pets or people down at my grannys either and that little family seem to have been there for years and years! In a sense you would maybe think that by feeding them they would almost maybe lose their hunting skills? I'm not sure how plausible that is though just thinking out loud lol x


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It's the daily mail everything they write is over the top scaremongering be it the "giant rats", evil immigrants taking over the country or foxes. I highly doubt those are the facts


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> It's the guy holding up the little dead fox
> 
> No mention AT ALL of golden eagles mind you, so no idea what he has to do with them or why he would have one in his possession? They are a protected species, so I have no idea why he should have one, to be taken off him???


It was an injured wild eagle that was treated at his own expense with the full knowkedge of the Scottish Governments Environmental & Rural Affairs Department and an open ended licence to keep it as long as necesary


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

bellathemog said:


> YouTube - The colossal 26lb fox
> 
> Sick f*cker.


What a surprise, as well as being a vet, Keith Talbot loves his field sports and brought his rifle with him when he came to stay with family for his hols. Yeah, as I said earlier blood sport connections 

Hope this vet loses every decent client he has :thumbup: he is a disgrace to his profession.

All a big set up if ever there was one! They think people are as daft as them


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> What a surprise, as well as being a vet, Keith Talbot loves his field sports and brought his rifle with him when he came to stay with family for his hols. Yeah, as I said earlier blood sport connections
> 
> Hope this vet loses every decent client he has :thumbup: he is a disgrace to his profession.
> 
> All a big set up if ever there was one! They think people are as daft as them


He's a good vet though


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> What a surprise, as well as being a vet, Keith Talbot loves his field sports and brought his rifle with him when he came to stay with family for his hols. Yeah, as I said earlier blood sport connections
> 
> Hope this vet loses every decent client he has :thumbup: he is a disgrace to his profession.
> 
> All a big set up if ever there was one! They think people are as daft as them


You were Correct from the Start Amethyst..... I don't know what else to say. Feel Sick.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> What a surprise, as well as being a vet, Keith Talbot loves his field sports and brought his rifle with him when he came to stay with family for his hols. Yeah, as I said earlier blood sport connections
> 
> Hope this vet loses every decent client he has :thumbup: he is a disgrace to his profession.
> 
> All a big set up if ever there was one! They think people are as daft as them


I guess its just his 'hobby' and if we agree with it or not doesnt make him a bad person or vet - my job is spent working with injuried wildlife, so I dont need to state my feelings.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> He's a good vet though


I wouldn't leave any animal of mine in his hands :arf:

*Shudders at thought*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> You were Correct from the Start Amethyst..... I don't know what else to say.


So I was ...


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I wouldn't leave any animal of mine in his hands :arf:
> 
> *Shudders at thought*


Country sports are full of vets and doctors. Have you asked what yours do in their spare time


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Ah well, I don't feel so bad about my suspicions and "evil thoughts" now about the people concerned, not since they are being confirmed :001_cool:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Ah well, I don't feel so bad about my suspicions and "evil thoughts" now about the people concerned, not since they are being confirmed :001_cool:


Evil? Compared to St Adolf who hated animal cruelty


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Sorry forgot to quote hawksports what ypur docs do for sport...

Aren't they just.. 
And have you asked yourselves what other sports Create problems for the wildlife?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Sorry forgot to quote hawksports what ypur docs do for sport...
> 
> Aren't they just..
> And have you asked yourselves what other sports Create problems for the wildlife?


"Aren't they just .." What?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> "Aren't they just .." What?


Country sports full of vets and doctors


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> "Aren't they just .." What?


Sorry.. I was trying to load my food somehow deleted what I was quoting..lol tried to go back and put but obviously wasn't well put..

Country sports are full of professional people as in the sense of Dr's and dentist and vets... Sometimes where do you think these people get there ideas from to go into their chosen profession.. 

But like I say, have you asked yourself what other sports create problems for wildlife?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

how disgusting!.... god i hope no one ever takes an injured fox to him...infact i hope no one takes any creature to him after this! and that grinning kid is seriously damaged!

poor poor foxes and shame about the cat but seriously cats are non native predators who do so much damage to our wildlife people should keep them indoors not just for their safety but for our wildlifes safety aswell


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> Country sports full of vets and doctors


Guess that may depend where you live  I have known many doctors through my line of work and personally and never known one that even rode a horse never mind hunted :lol:

Vets, well the ones I've known well through the rescue side of things did not hunt either, but then they were genuine animal lovers 

Still, I guess claiming (and these people may be well represented numerically in some areas) the hunt is full of these people almost gives it an air of respectability ... almost ... but not quite


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Guess that may depend where you live  I have known many doctors through my line of work and personally and never known one that even rode a horse never mind hunted :lol:
> 
> Vets, well the ones I've known well through the rescue side of things did not hunt either, but then they were genuine animal lovers
> 
> Still, I guess claiming (and these people may be well represented numerically in some areas) the hunt is full of these people almost gives it an air of respectability ... almost ... but not quite


So am I not a genuine animal lover if I dont take the same attitude as yourself and say how disgusting all this is?

Also you dont have to have a horse or ride one to go out hunting!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Ah well, I don't feel so bad about my suspicions and "evil thoughts" now about the people concerned, not since they are being confirmed :001_cool:


Would I be right in thinking that in the video that confirmed your suspisions he was an evil man, the only thing you learnt about him was that he practised the art of falconry?


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

hawksport said:


> Evil? Compared to St Adolf who hated animal cruelty


St adolf


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> Would I be right in thinking that in the video that confirmed your suspisions he was an evil man, the only thing you learnt about him was that he practised the art of falconry?


The video confirmed my suspicions that there was a LOT more to this *story* than initially portrayed


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

bellathemog said:


> St adolf


Why Is Adolf Hitler Being called a Saint.?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

bellathemog said:


> St adolf


Pleased it isn't just me, I haven't a clue what Adolf Hitler has to do with any of this either


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> Why Is Adolf Hitler Being called a St.?


I was gonna say I never see him in that youtube clip nor in the OP's link

What a crazy thing to say


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

bellathemog said:


> St adolf


adolf hitler were an animal lover! shame that same compassion were not extended to the Jews!


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Pleased it isn't just me, I haven't a clue what Adolf Hitler has to do with any of this either


Cats That Look Like Hitler!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> adolf hitler were an animal lover! shame that same compassion were not extended to the Jews!


Okay he was an animal lover, but what has he to do with killing foxes :confused1:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

snoopydo said:


> Why Is Adolf Hitler Being called a Saint.?


If someone can be evil just because they practise country sports by the same reckoning someone who hated animal cruelty must be good.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Okay he was an animal lover, but what has he to do with killing foxes :confused1:


Nuffing was just explaining why his name may have been mentioned!  Just assuming like! as cannot really speak for Hawksport!


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Okay he was an animal lover, but what has he to do with killing foxes :confused1:


Nope Ive googled and cant see Mr Hitler being photographed holding up a fox


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> The video confirmed my suspicions that there was a LOT more to this *story* than initially portrayed


So what else did it confirm?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Country sports are full of professional people as in the sense of Dr's and dentist and vets... Sometimes where do you think these people get there ideas from to go into their chosen profession..


What in the arena of bloodsports might a person experience that would inspire them to pursue a career in dentistry or medicine :scared: :lol:


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Pleased it isn't just me, I haven't a clue what Adolf Hitler has to do with any of this either


Oh, I've just realised I Think it's coz you called the vet Evil and as most think Hitler was..That must be the comparison ....But becouse Hitler was a Animal lover... The poster is saying that he's not as Evil as Hitler.....

I Think


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> What in the arena of bloodsports might a person experience that would inspire them to pursue a career in dentistry or medicine :scared: :lol:


Blood and pain


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> Oh, I've just realised I Think it's coz you called the vet Evil and as most think Hitler was..That must be the comparison ....But becouse Hitler was a Animal lover... The poster is saying that he's not as Evil as Hitler.....
> 
> I Think


But Hitler started KdF which then turned into VW and he is a animal lover = my hero


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

AND FEAR :eek6:


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Nuffing was just explaining why his name may have been mentioned!  Just assuming like! as cannot really speak for Hawksport!


Godwins law... Lol

The longer an online discussion goes on the higher the chance Nazis or hitler will be brought up


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> Oh, I've just realised I Think it's coz you called the vet Evil and as most think Hitler was..That must be the comparison ....But becouse Hitler was a Animal lover... The poster is saying that he's not as Evil as Hitler.....
> 
> I Think


Actually I never said vet was evil, I referred in a jocular way to my evil (as in suspicious) thoughts about what really were the undercurrents of the story...which were proved to be accurate as it happens


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

snoopydo said:


> Oh, I've just realised I Think it's coz you called the vet Evil and as most think Hitler was..That must be the comparison ....But becouse Hitler was a Animal lover... The poster is saying that he's not as Evil as Hitler.....
> 
> I Think


No. I'm saying one thing doesn't make someone good or evil. Just because he practises country sports doesn't make him an evil person or a bad vet, just as being an animal lover didn't make Adolf Hitler a good person.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

bellathemog said:


> But Hitler started KdF which then turned into VW and he is a animal lover = my hero


What is KDF
Nuffing to do wiff Kentucky Died Fowl me hopes


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

bellathemog said:


> But Hitler started KdF which then turned into VW and he is a animal lover = my hero


I'm not sure what Kdf or VW is ..Sorry.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> What in the arena of bloodsports might a person experience that would inspire them to pursue a career in dentistry or medicine :scared: :lol:


You dont know what makes the mind tick.. Or do you think you do know.. For all you know that boy in the pic may be a Dr when he is older and it was that day seeing that fox that inspired him...

And like I said before Am I not a genuine animal lover seen as Im not on here shouting how evil the man is??

And also what other sports do you think affects the wildlife..


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

bellathemog said:


> Blood and pain


Of course, silly me and as snoopydo says ... Fear


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> I'm not sure what Kdf or VW is ..Sorry.


Sorry VW = Volkswagen Hitler started the trend by asking for a car to be designed for him. It was the start to the VW Beetle.

Sorry I'm a Beetle fan ( Not Hitler ):thumbup:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> You dont know what makes the mind tick.. Or do you think you do know.. For all you know that boy in the pic may be a Dr when he is older and it was that day seeing that fox that inspired him...


Yes, he may be a doctor, indeed who knows, but how could seeing a dead fox possibly inspire a child to go into medicine as a career?

You asked ~ "And also what other sports do you think affects the wildlife.." Have no idea what you mean sorry 
Does it have anything to do with this thread or would you be better starting another perhaps?


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> I'm not sure what Kdf or VW is ..Sorry.


Even I know VW is a volks wagon:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Amythyst Did you see my post where I Think I realised the link between you post and Hitler Bit confusing but I think that is what was mean't.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Yes, he may be a doctor, indeed who knows, but how could seeing a dead fox possibly inspire a child to go into medicine as a career?
> 
> You asked ~ "And also what other sports do you think affects the wildlife.." Have no idea what you mean sorry
> Does it have anything to do with this thread or would you be better starting another perhaps?


Right I see.. you can have a nice chat about hitler and his cars but cant have a discussion about what everyday people do to affect the wildlife of our country!

i also think you must think me as not an animal lover as you seem to be unable to answer that aswell!


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Even I know VW is a volks wagon:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


I Did think Volkswagan but I did'nt realise Hitler was responisble for them Have I lost the plot or am I still on the same wavelength to everyone else...

I gone from The Vet killing a Fox...To killing Animals turning folk into Docs..To Hitler and then To VW's Am I still on track


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i for one think a vet who shows a total disregard for an animals life is no different to a doctor commiting murder!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> Amythyst Did you see my post where I Think I realised the link between you post and Hitler Bit confusing but I think that is what was mean't.


Yes I *think* I follow it now  Thank you x


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> I Did think Volkswagan but I did'nt realise Hitler was responisble for them Have I lost the plot or am I still on the same wavelength to everyone else...
> 
> I gone from The Vet killing a Fox...To killing Animals turning folk into Docs..To Hitler and then To VW's Am I still on track


I dont understand how the fox thread turned into a Hitler fest but I wanted to explain that he invented the beetle

Sorry my fault it went off track


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> i for one think a vet who shows a total disregard for an animals life is no different to a doctor commiting murder!


Well said.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Found this post on another forum, hope it's okay to reproduce it here?

"I've got to say that I find this article rather suspect. 
Boxing day was the big traditional day to go Fox Hunting in England. Kent is a traditional place to go Fox Hunting and had lots of protests before the ban. 
So someone in Kent just happens to trap the largest ever Fox on Boxing Day and incidentally start some more paranoia about Foxes being out of control and dangerous?

Something smells bad, and it's not just the dead fox."


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

bellathemog said:


> I dont understand how the fox thread turned into a Hitler fest but I wanted to explain that he invented the beetle
> 
> Sorry my fault it went off track


Hey Not saying it was wrong :lol: just trying to keep up :lol:

My Brains Tired


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Found this post on another forum, hope it's okay to reproduce it here?
> 
> "I've got to say that I find this article rather suspect.
> Boxing day was the big traditional day to go Fox Hunting in England. Kent is a traditional place to go Fox Hunting and had lots of protests before the ban.
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Glad it's Not just us that smelt a Rat ( Excuse the pun ) There are others out there to that AGREE with us :thumbup::thumbup:


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> i for one think a vet who shows a total disregard for an animals life is no different to a doctor commiting murder!


Here here :thumbup:Sent you a Rep for this..( Now I know how to do them )

I Totally agree Arn't Vets supposed to Care and have Compassion for ALL Animals?


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

Found a lot of other forums saying the same

Do a search and you'll dig up a few things intereting.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Found this post on another forum, hope it's okay to reproduce it here?
> 
> "I've got to say that I find this article rather suspect.
> Boxing day was the big traditional day to go Fox Hunting in England. Kent is a traditional place to go Fox Hunting and had lots of protests before the ban.
> ...


Are we saying it's not the biggest fox or it wasn't killed on Boxing day?


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

This happened in April last year.

Poor fox!!!!

A marksman was hired to shoot a fox at a cricket ground.

Residents living near Sussex County Cricket Club in Eaton Road, Hove, called police after hearing shots in the early hours of Sunday.

Officers later told them that a licensed gun was being used to exterminate foxes.

Club bosses said they had called in a pest control expert after persistent problems with one fox.

But animal lovers have reacted with anger at the killing.

Nigel Furness, 60, was at The Sussex Cricketer pub in Hove when he heard three shots just after midnight.

He said: I thought, theres something wrong here, what on earth is going on? Its a big open space so it can be quite creepy at night.

Then about five minutes later a police car came up. I asked the officers what was going on and they said theres nothing to worry about, the cricket club is just shooting foxes and it is all legitimate.

But there really is no need to shoot foxes. They are completely harmless and destroy a great many pests like slugs and snails and we are absolutely appalled.

It is also extremely alarming that we were never told what was going on.

Dave Brooks, the clubs chief executive, said: We have had foxes frequently on the ground for many years but this particular one over the last few months has *started to cause problems by scratching around on covers and acting oddly*. It was probably not particularly healthy because of its behaviour.

We went through all of the different processes we could consider, such as rehousing it, but we were told that we were not allowed to do that, so the only alternative we had left was to have the fox killed by a licensed company.

We really didnt want to do it but it was a last resort. We have never had to go to these lengths before and we hope we wont have to do it again.

Foxes have been here for many years and I am sure they will continue to be here for many years to come.


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

The last three pages of this thread are very confusing :lol: x


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> Are we saying it's not the biggest fox or it wasn't killed on Boxing day?


I'm not saying anything 

I simply think this post highlights the fact that most people do not believe everything they read in newspapers 

Many would agree there are a few coincidences and something does not quite feel right about all of this  As that poster said, "something smells bad" and it ain't the poor slaughtered foxes :sneaky2:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

koekemakranka said:


> With a very few exceptions, all lions, even full grown males, will run from humans approaching them on foot. Generally, lions will only attack if cornered or have very young cubs. There are some isolated reports of maneating or "specialist" lions in some parts of Africa, but lions do not, as a rule, hunt humans. They are, however, like foxes, opportunistic, if the human victim happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There are very few places in Africa where lions have not come into contact with humans at one time or another, and they fear them. They are often OK with approaching vehciles because they do not necessarily associate the vehicles with humans.


I know, I've been sat less than a metre away from a lioness known to attack the tyres of vehicles, and also collared as she was an exceptional hunter, and tracked regularly for the benefit of tourists. But I disagree with you, many more humans are taken on a regular basis in areas where lions are not hunted, animals can and do learn to fear predators. Sometimes, it's been shown with some species that this isn 'inbred', geese chicks fear the silhouette of raptors, and yet not the silhouette of other birds.

I've stopped contributing to this thread for a couple of reasons.

One, I am really fed up of the pettiness of some posters, I completely understand and respect that others have a point of view, but the name calling and snide remarks are just childish.

Two, and most of all, I am disgusted by the comments about the little boy, and I hope he never gets to read any of them. I can't understand how anyone could post anything like that about a child they haven't met or know anything about except what's posted in a newspaper report.

Grow up people.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

To be honest the picture of the little boy reminded me of those horrible old pictures we see of hunters standing next to lions or tigers which they had strung up 
At one time THAT was deemed acceptable ... Thankfully most people have moved on ...

The child is not at fault, it's the adults who encouraged this who are lacking  

Better by far to encourage children to respect and be responsible towards animals and nature by exemplifying kindness, rather than cruelty?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Two, and most of all, I am disgusted by the comments about the little boy, and I hope he never gets to read any of them. I can't understand how anyone could post anything like that about a child they haven't met or know anything about except what's posted in a newspaper report.
> 
> Grow up people.


An article they hadn't even read properly


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> That "giant" fox looks like a normal sized fox to me. The one he holds up that is supposed to be normal size looks tiny, it's no bigger than a rabbit. The foxes that live next door are huge, they are bigger than Ollie and definitely much bigger than the "normal" sized fox in the photo.
> 
> I think urban foxes are definitely bigger, they don't have to go hunting for food, it's all there for them so they don't use as much energy hunting anymore, so just get larger.


So if you kept feeding Ollie, he'd carry on growing until he was the size of a GSD?
No. The eventual size of the fox or any other animal is determined by its genetics. That's unless it has a growth hormone disorder. True, animals can be stunted by malnutrition and fail to reach their full size before their growth plates close, but they don't get taller with more food. If they did, Americans would be 8 feet tall.

I do think the 'normal' size fox was a small one, not representative.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> An article they hadn't even read properly


We read enough to know something was amiss ... as have a lot of other people if you check out other forums or talk to other people about the fiasco


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> We read enough to know something was amiss ... as have a lot of other people if you check out other forums or talk to other people about the fiasco


So what is amiiss?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> To be honest the picture of the little boy reminded me of those horrible old pictures we see of hunters standing next to lions or tigers which they had strung up
> At one time THAT was deemed acceptable ... Thankfully most people have moved on ...
> 
> The child is not at fault, it's the adults who encouraged this who are lacking
> ...


Well then why have you, for one, resorted to posting what can be construed as personal comments against a child, but then I shouldn't be surprised, as you're also the one that resorted to the petty name calling.

I don't mind a balanced debate, but I've lost all respect for some of the posters on this forum, this thread really has made me wonder why I bother debating some issues when all people do is resort to pettiness and judgements about people they know nothing about.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Holy pants on earth I am from maidstone, and I must say I have seen what I thought where big foxes round the chicken run,, but Not as big as this one. We had one round the chicken run on the 23rd and said to hubby theres a dog in the garden, he looked and said no its a fox it was big,, about the size of a medium spaniel.

I must say the urban foxes are very bold and have watched with amusement as our cat and a small fox vied for postion in the back garden on scrapes thrown out for the birds (yes strange cat),, but she got run over in the road infront of us very sad.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> So what is amiiss?


Mmmm ... The whole story :lol:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Mmmm ... The whole story :lol:


So that includes it being the biggest fox and being shot on Boxing day


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> So that includes it being the biggest fox and being shot on Boxing day


Well, that's probably the two biggest coincidences


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Well, that's probably the two biggest coincidences


Perhaps you would like to post some pics of a bigger one then


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Here is another vet who seems to have a "dislike" of foxes, claiming they are causing untold grief to pets and wanting a cull.

But there seems little need in reality :confused1:

Vet calls for fox culling (From Richmond and Twickenham Times)


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It will certainly benefit the neighbours cats in that particular area. And hopefully any foxes there, will be that bit more wily and unwilling to approach humans.


i love cats but imo a non native species who is estimated to kill more than 300 million wild animals per year shouldnt be roaming free in the 1st place SL.


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> Daily Fail and it's propaganda!!! I wish they could base their articles on fact instead of implication, i'd take more notice if their drivel wasn't littered with references such as "believed to be"
> "and fears that"
> 
> Then there's the line at the bottom! "Don't stick your baby outside in the 'burbs!"  Like anyone would leave a baby outside in this day and age!
> ...


will this giant fox rank alongside the giant rats a few months back?........its a mammilian jurassic park:thumbup:


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> To be honest the picture of the little boy reminded me of those horrible old pictures we see of hunters standing next to lions or tigers which they had strung up
> At one time THAT was deemed acceptable ... Thankfully most people have moved on ...
> 
> The child is not at fault, it's the adults who encouraged this who are lacking
> ...


I am conflicted by this point of view sorry,,

People observe death very differently, My niece who is into hunting has a foxes tail and the front part of the fox from rib cage forward in her freezer, not my cup of tea but its the life my niece has gone for, along with 2 forelegs of a horse(her partner is a farrier) along with all the pork from her pigs rotters ears, anyway, when my daughter of 6 at the time went over she was very interested in the foxes tail and the legs, children have a morbid facination to understand I believe,,

not everyones thought but just mine,,a child will always want to look at a dead animal in the road the are interested..

I hope I did not go to far off track here.


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> i love cats but imo a non native species who is estimated to kill more than 300 million wild animals per year shouldnt be roaming free in the 1st place SL.


That's certainly another way to look at it Noushka! I know many people are seriously concerned about the number of small mammals and birds killed, but what to do? Kill EVERY cat that hunts down a mouse or bird? Most of us shrug and say it's nature. We don't reach for a shotgun or set a trap.

*Animals react and kill instinctively and without malice, manipulation or ulterior motive ... unlike some people.*


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> i love cats but imo a non native species who is estimated to kill more than 300 million wild animals per year shouldnt be roaming free in the 1st place SL.


I wouldn't disagree with that Noush, we have many non-native species, including the rabbit, one of the main prey items for the fox; for me, as you know it's all about keeping things in balance. I don't like to see animals killed for the sake of it, and to be quite honest, the prize offered for the largest fox is sickening. But then this thread has brought up quite a few opposite views that have been unecessarily rude and judgemental.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> I am conflicted by this point of view sorry,,
> 
> People observe death very differently, My niece who is into hunting has a foxes tail and the front part of the fox from rib cage forward in her freezer, not my cup of tea but its the life my niece has gone for, along with 2 forelegs of a horse(her partner is a farrier) along with all the pork from her pigs rotters ears, anyway, when my daughter of 6 at the time went over she was very interested in the foxes tail and the legs, children have a morbid facination to understand I believe,,
> 
> ...


Not of track at all 

It just illustrates in my mind how differently the children in our family were introduced to animals, their care, life and sometimes death. Things here were done with a sense of care, dignity, respect and compassion 

I have let children see a kitten that passed away due to illness at home and also explained that a pregnant cat would not be having her kittens and why .... I was spaying her. I would not however let them stand next to an animal that had been killed for no good reason, strung up and the national press contacted.

Yes, there are many ways to teach children about the animal world, which is of course also ours ... Thank you for your honest post


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> I am conflicted by this point of view sorry,,
> 
> People observe death very differently, My niece who is into hunting has a foxes tail and the front part of the fox from rib cage forward in her freezer, not my cup of tea but its the life my niece has gone for, along with 2 forelegs of a horse(her partner is a farrier) along with all the pork from her pigs rotters ears, anyway, when my daughter of 6 at the time went over she was very interested in the foxes tail and the legs, children have a morbid facination to understand I believe,,
> 
> ...


I do think there is a distinct difference between a child understanding how and why animals die/ or are killed and encouraging children to revel in it.

In the last snowfall the park Ranger found a poor little mole frozen solid. I encouraged the children to look at it, it was beautifully preserved and a fantastic chance for them to see one as they are notoriously shy, they were of course interested but also saddened by its sad demise but hey ho thats life and sometimes it sucks, this is very different to taking the kids out with a spade and encouraging them to revel in the joy of bludgeoning a mole to death.


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

so he's a vet,a vet who's cat was apparently eaten by this fox......did he by any chance check the contents of this foxes stomach?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> That's certainly another way to look at it Noushka! I know many people are seriously concerned about the number of small mammals and birds killed, but what to do? Kill EVERY cat that hunts down a mouse or bird? Most of us shrug and say it's nature. We don't reach for a shotgun or set a trap.
> 
> *Animals react and kill instinctively and without malice, manipulation or ulterior motive ... unlike some people.*


no i'd never want that to happen but i wish there were spay and neuter schemes for feral cats , and some sort of legislation to make owners keep cats secure so keeping our indiginous wildlife safe from them..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

skyblue said:


> so he's a vet,a vet who's cat was apparently eaten by this fox......did he by any chance check the contents of this foxes stomach?


It wasn't his cat.. it was his parents..


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> It wasn't his cat.. it was his parents..


but he's still a vet


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

skyblue said:


> but he's still a vet


Yeah he is..


----------



## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I do think there is a distinct difference between a child understanding how and why animals die/ or are killed and encouraging children to revel in it.
> 
> In the last snowfall the park Ranger found a poor little mole frozen solid. I encouraged the children to look at it, it was beautifully preserved and a fantastic chance for them to see one as they are notoriously shy, they were of course interested but also saddened by its sad demise but hey ho thats life and sometimes it sucks, this is very different to taking the kids out with a spade and encouraging them to revel in the joy of bludgeoning a mole to death.


I expect the child was caught up in the adults amazment at the size of the fox, and lets face it, it is huge and people just don't get close close to these animals,, I am not saying I agree with whats happened only that it may have been a spur of the moment action you know like ..Oh wow charlie stand by it so we can compare how big it is,, OMG its huge, Kid dutifully stands next to it and smiles ,

do you get what i mean


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

skyblue said:


> so he's a vet,a vet who's cat was apparently eaten by this fox......did he by any chance check the contents of this foxes stomach?


That's what I wanted to know


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> I expect the child was caught up in the adults amazment at the size of the fox, and lets face it, it is huge and people just don't get close close to these animals,, I am not saying I agree with whats happened only that it may have been a spur of the moment action you know like ..Oh wow charlie stand by it so we can compare how big it is,, OMG its huge, Kid dutifully stands next to it and smiles ,
> 
> do you get what i mean


I do , sad that people would manipulate a child like that though  for their own ends.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

piggybaker said:


> I expect the child was caught up in the adults amazment at the size of the fox, and lets face it, it is huge and people just don't get close close to these animals,, I am not saying I agree with whats happened only that it may have been a spur of the moment action you know like ..Oh wow charlie stand by it so we can compare how big it is,, OMG its huge, Kid dutifully stands next to it and smiles ,
> 
> do you get what i mean


Hey hun.. valid point.. if that got into your chickens.. How would you feel about Mr Fox?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> no i'd never want that to happen but i wish there were spay and neuter schemes for feral cats , and some sort of legislation to make owners keep cats secure so keeping our indiginous wildlife safe from them..


Sorry, I did not mean you would want this or condone it, I share very much your thoughts here


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

does it really matter,,


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> I do , sad that people would manipulate a child like that though  for their own ends.


Not only would they, they did


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

piggybaker said:


> does it really matter,,


If that was to me.. I was just curious.. Knowing you keep them..


----------



## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Hey hun.. valid point.. if that got into your chickens.. How would you feel about Mr Fox?


I would be really really upset,, and would throw things at the fox as i do when i catch it in the garden,, but what am I going to do its a fox, I don't have a shot gun, we live on the outskirts of town I knew we had foxes before i got the chickens and have done my best to make sure ther safe,, if the fox gets it I failed and the buggar outwitted me:scared:

But also I believe a fox can do alot of damage in it will to survive,, I do feel the numbers should be policed in the urban areas,, not because of pet and children(which by the way I don't believe) I just feel we are allowing them to get out of control by leaving rubbish for them,, not good really.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> does it really matter,,


Is that in reply to my post ?

If it is then i think it does matter but just because of my own viewpoint  I personally don't want my children to celebrate the uneccesary killing of another animal and in this instance i think the culling of the fox is a publicity stunt and i think it is distasteful to parade it as some sort of public news story worst still to include a child in that.

That doesn't make me right and others wrong it's just how i chose to parent  Hope that makes sense.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> I would be really really upset,, and would throw things at the fox as i do when i catch it in the garden,, but what am I going to do its a fox, I don't have a shot gun, we live on the outskirts of town I knew we had foxes before i got the chickens and have done my best to make sure ther safe,, if the fox gets it I failed and the buggar outwitted me:scared:


Sorry we posted at the same time, i see we have the same viewpoint


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

piggybaker said:


> I would be really really upset,, and would throw things at the fox as i do when i catch it in the garden,, but what am I going to do its a fox, I don't have a shot gun, we live on the outskirts of town I knew we had foxes before i got the chickens and have done my best to make sure ther safe,, if the fox gets it I failed and the buggar outwitted me:scared:


My sister has 5.. I know its a big worry for her.. Her OH has built the house and run.. and they hope it is secure..


----------



## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> If that was to me.. I was just curious.. Knowing you keep them..


it wasn't to you, I forgot to quote LOL


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

piggybaker said:


> But also I believe a fox can do alot of damage in it will to survive,, I do feel the numbers should be policed in the urban areas,, not because of pet and children(which by the way I don't believe) I just feel we are allowing them to get out of control by leaving rubbish for them,, not good really.


Yeah i agree with that...


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> But also I believe a fox can do alot of damage in it will to survive,, I do feel the numbers should be policed in the urban areas,, not because of pet and children(which by the way I don't believe) I just feel we are allowing them to get out of control by leaving rubbish for them,, not good really.


Why should the foxes be policed? By that I guess you mean culled (hopefully you mean trapped and released), wouldn't it be better to police the people who leave out rubbish bins for them to scavenge in. More humane too 

Good to hear you aren't taken in by the scare stories about foxes and take responsibility for the safety of your own animals and birds :thumbup:

Pity others who should know better can't


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Sad pics for me. I have four foxes, watched them reared from little cubs back in April and I just adore them, I have lost sleep worrying about them in the cold weather. We see them every night when we take the dogs out (chihuahua!). They co-habit/share meals with badgers and are a delight to have around. 

I do take extra precautions with my dog and he doesn't have the same freedoms he would have if the vulpines weren't around but it's no bother really. Certainly if anything happened to him the only person I would blame is me.


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## Robynkeating (Dec 28, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Anyone else notice how conveniently this "giant fox" was killed on Boxing Day, my what a coincidence indeed
> 
> Isn't the Boxing Day hunt one of the "highlights" of the hunting fraternity's calendar
> 
> Seriously, do they think the British public are all gullible fools :hand:


For your information we do not hunt on a a sunday


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Why should the foxes be policed? By that I guess you mean culled (hopefully you mean trapped and released), wouldn't it be better to police the people who leave out rubbish bins for them to scavenge in. More humane too
> 
> Good to hear you aren't taken in by the scare stories about foxes and take responsibility for the safety of your own animals and birds :thumbup:
> 
> Pity others who should know better can't


I just feel the urban fox needs to be kept in check,, they have mange and are ill and I think I could say a comftable quarter of them are affected,, I would say 2 out of five foxes I see come through my garden are small and skinny and have mange, could be the same ones lol but no honestly,, I thnk they should go and yes cull these foxes who are not well, as you can't realease foxes into another area, something to do with territory, I also believe they should get the dog and neuture them, even the females, and yes you are right, the people who feed them should be policed or adviced.. its not good say they belong in the country new houseing is being built on the homes,,

Of course I don't want to kill all foxes I enjoy seeing them, but they are becoming a bit big in numbers, but I could say the same thing about humans but we are not talking about humanity we are talking about an animals who knows how to survive and is doing it well.


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Robynkeating said:


> For your information we do not hunt on a a sunday


As with shooting! Sunday is a day of rest!


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

jenniferx said:


> Sad pics for me. I have four foxes, watched them reared from little cubs back in April and I just adore them, I have lost sleep worrying about them in the cold weather. We see them every night when we take the dogs out (chihuahua!). They co-habit/share meals with badgers and are a delight to have around.
> 
> I do take extra precautions with my dog and he doesn't have the same freedoms he would have if the vulpines weren't around but it's no bother really. Certainly if anything happened to him the only person I would blame is me.


That's lovely, nice to hear I hope your little fox family enjoy many years of peace and happiness in your area, unmolested from those who would do them harm.

Thankfully there will always be more people of a good heart than otherwise and that is why fox hunting and those who enjoy it will NEVER gain the respect they crave.


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Robynkeating said:


> For your information we do not hunt on a a sunday


Another coincidence no hunting THIS Boxing Day, but a kill to make the tabloids instead


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> I just feel the urban fox needs to be kept in check,, they have mange and are ill and I think I could say a comftable quarter of them are affected,, I would say 2 out of five foxes I see come through my garden are small and skinny and have mange, could be the same ones lol but no honestly,, I thnk they should go and yes cull these foxes who are not well, as you can't realease foxes into another area, something to do with territory, I also believe they should get the dog and neuture them, even the females, and yes you are right, the people who feed them should be policed or adviced.. its not good say they belong in the country new houseing is being built on the homes,,
> 
> Of course I don't want to kill all foxes I enjoy seeing them, but they are becoming a bit big in numbers, but I could say the same thing about humans but we are not talking about humanity we are talking about an animals who knows how to survive and is doing it well.


I'd agree, probably a proportion of the population aren't that healthy. But you probably won't make yourself popular by posting that, even if you have first hand experience of problem foxes.

I wonder how many of those who post against shooting problem foxes, and those that aren't healthy, would actually be willing to put an unhealthy animal out of it's misery. Or would rather leave it to suffer a slow, excruciating 'natural' death?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But then this thread has brought up quite a few opposite views that have been unecessarily rude and judgemental.


The only thing i disagree with on here is someone that up untill today hardly anyone here had ever heard of being called a liar who is unfit to carry on his profession.
I don't think the fox should of been shot
I don't think an 18 year old cat should be left out all night
I don't think there should be a prize for the biggest fox

I have £1000s of birds in the garden, I have no fox problem because I secure my perimeter


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## noogsy (Aug 20, 2009)

ive got a fox at the bottom of my garden,
we live in a semi rural place so he is where he belongs.
i like to see him scurrying around.
x


----------



## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'd agree, probably a proportion of the population aren't that healthy. But you probably won't make yourself popular by posting that, even if you have first hand experience of problem foxes.
> 
> I wonder how many of those who post against shooting problem foxes, and those that aren't healthy, would actually be willing to put an unhealthy animal out of it's misery. Or would rather leave it to suffer a slow, excruciating 'natural' death?


MMM I know but each to there own a


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I wonder how many of those who post against shooting problem foxes, and those that aren't healthy, would actually be willing to put an unhealthy animal out of it's misery. Or would rather leave it to suffer a slow, excruciating 'natural' death?


The thing is we don't believe the foxes are necessarily a problem.

The poor "giant fox" in this case for example, there is no proof it was a problem and given the size and look of it, was a magnificent specimen of the species, it looked amazingly healthy ... a sin to kill it.

If an animals needs to be destroyed due to health issues, sure, do it humanely. But there was no excuse here that stands up


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'd agree, probably a proportion of the population aren't that healthy. But you probably won't make yourself popular by posting that, even if you have first hand experience of problem foxes.
> 
> I wonder how many of those who post against shooting problem foxes, and those that aren't healthy, would actually be willing to put an unhealthy animal out of it's misery. Or would rather leave it to suffer a slow, excruciating 'natural' death?


Me.. i would get someone to put it out of its misery.... I am a mard.. Its not I dont care I couldn't.. 
I was driving down the lane one night back from the farm and there was a large hare in the road.. I stopped in front of it.. and it didn't move its was raining real hard.. i rang me mate who Id just left at the farm.. He came the rabbit was still sat up and not moving.. Something was very wrong so he culled the rabbit for me.. then popped it over the hedge..

Same with rats down the farm.. If they've been poisoned ive never been able to finish them off.. Always have to shout someone else.. 
But you know about me and meat and my strange things SL..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> The thing is we don't believe the foxes are necessarily a problem.
> 
> The poor "giant fox" in this case for example, there is no proof it was a problem and given the size and look of it, was a magnificent specimen of the species, it looked amazingly healthy ... a sin to kill it.
> 
> If an animals needs to be destroyed due to health issues, sure, do it humanely. But there was no excuse here that stands up


Where do you live town or country? What experiences do you have with country wildlife.. What experience do you have to say as you do?


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> The thing is we don't believe the foxes are necessarily a problem.
> 
> The poor "giant fox" in this case for example, there is no proof it was a problem and given the size and look of it, was a magnificent specimen of the species, it looked amazingly healthy ... a sin to kill it.
> 
> If an animals needs to be destroyed due to health issues, sure, do it humanely. But there was no excuse here that stands up


We only know what was on that article... we weren't there..


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Where do you live town or country? What experiences do you have with country wildlife.. What experience do you have to say as you do?


None of your business, with respect 

I have the "experience" of knowing the difference between what is right and wrong, it's called morals and ethics


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

hawksport said:


> The only thing i disagree with on here is someone that up untill today hardly anyone here had ever heard of being called a liar who is unfit to carry on his profession.
> I don't think the fox should of been shot
> I don't think an 18 year old cat should be left out all night
> I don't think there should be a prize for the biggest fox
> ...


I agree with your second and third points, but do know of people who have *secure* coops, hutches and foxes have still managed to get through and kill pets/livestock. In that case, you set up a trap to kill the fox that's a problem. I don't think everyone will agree with that, and they don't have to, after all, that's what a personal opinion is all about.



piggybaker said:


> MMM I know but each to there own a


Exactly


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Robynkeating said:


> For your information we do not hunt on a a sunday


Hunting what??  Foxes? You shouldn't be hunting them on any day should you? Seeing as that's illegal.....

Now. Those dog you mentioned on the other thread getting punished? You never answered despite numerous times I questioned.

Post#1293

Just in case you need reminding


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

noogsy said:


> ive got a fox at the bottom of my garden,
> we live in a semi rural place so he is where he belongs.
> i like to see him scurrying around.
> x


I wish we had one 

Get the occasional glimpse and when we do, I count myself blessed!


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> None of your business, with respect
> 
> I have the "experience" of knowing the difference between what is right and wrong, it's called morals and ethics


And other members also have the right to voice their opinion' s and their views (which may not incidently conincide with yours) these may be based on a number of factors, their age, their upbringing, their location, their experiences, their occupation!

*As it happens I agree with you*! BUT! who the hell are you to question THEIR morals and ethics! Have you say by all means! But DON'T consider yourself better then them!

Thats me done on this one guys!
Sorry Noush - you know Im on your side - but can't be doing with the bible thumpers!


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

run away run away :lol:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> BUT! who the hell are you to question THEIR morals and ethics! Have you say by all means! But DON'T consider youself better then them!
> Thats me done on this one guys!
> Sorry Noush - you know can't be doing with bible thumpers
> 
> ...


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> That's really tickled me, a bible thumper :lol:
> 
> *Composes self* .... I'll continue to question the ethics and morals of *anyone* who uses and abuses animals in the name of "sport" or anything else for that matter
> 
> As said I can respect thier right to an opinion, but don't have to respect THE opinion.


The thing is just cause I have an opinion and its not the same as yours you seem to think.. I abuse animals? Im not an animal lover?


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> DoubleTrouble said:
> 
> 
> > BUT! who the hell are you to question THEIR morals and ethics! Have you say by all means! But DON'T consider youself better then them!
> ...


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> The thing is just cause I have an opinion and its not the same as yours you seem to think.. I abuse animals? Im not an animal lover?





hawksport said:


> Amethyst said:
> 
> 
> > I'll continue to question the morals and ethics of someone that calls someone else they have never met or even heard of a liar and can't produce any evidence to back it up
> ...


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

It shall be interesting to see what the League of Cruel Sports make of this in the next few days, I expect they be updating us at some point


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> It shall be interesting to see what the League of Cruel Sports make of this in the next few days, I expect they be updating us at some point


Still haven't answered me have you???? And Ive asked you several times..


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> hawksport said:
> 
> 
> > erm"! you two guys can you look at what you have quoted me as saying! Reckon you've cocked up! if anyones gonna quote me please ensure you've quoted me right!
> ...


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

hawksport said:


> DoubleTrouble said:
> 
> 
> > I think that was because of the way you were quoted by Amethyst. Just the way it came out when we quoted her
> ...


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> It shall be interesting to see what the League of Cruel Sports make of this in the next few days, I expect they be updating us at some point


Probably celebrate by stabbing another deer to death


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> hawksport said:
> 
> 
> > It is true.. LOL What a pair of reet eejits we are hey.. :lol: Someone best add that to their list.. :lol:
> ...


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

hawksport said:


> Probably celebrate by stabbing another deer to death


Time for my bath and bed :Yawn:


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> momentofmadness said:
> 
> 
> > :scared::scared: I never that that either who is messing with wot I said:scared:
> ...


----------



## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Oh dear another one bites the dust:scared: its only 10pm


----------



## carebear (Jun 10, 2009)

im pretty sure i would of done the same thing if it had killed my cat or dog,


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Prob got to go and read up on some more statistics...
Prob never ventured to the country.. 
And can't answer questions on here when asked several times.. And to think I got accused of that the other day.. and I just hadn't noticed the question.. you couldn't have missed mine seen as part of question was in a quote:eek6:


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

I would have gone ballistic on it, the ****** wouldn't know what hit it!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Time for my bath and bed :Yawn:


Yes, lets not talk about the league being reported for cruelty by its own employees


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Yes, lets not talk about the league being reported for cruelty by its own employees


Oh dear Hawksport! you know summat I don't:scared::scared::scared:


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

hawksport said:


> Yes, lets not talk about the league being reported for cruelty by its own employees


:lol: Talk about double standards..


----------



## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> I am conflicted by this point of view sorry,,
> 
> People observe death very differently, My niece who is into hunting has a foxes tail and the front part of the fox from rib cage forward in her freezer, not my cup of tea but its the life my niece has gone for, *along with 2 forelegs of a horse(her partner is a farrier) *along with all the pork from her pigs rotters ears, anyway, when my daughter of 6 at the time went over she was very interested in the foxes tail and the legs, children have a morbid facination to understand I believe,,
> 
> ...


Sorry But I just HAVE To ASK ..How The Hell Doe's a Farrier end up with 2 Horses LEGS When I owned Horses MY Farrier just Removed put on New Shoes He did'nt take their LEGS :confused1:


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Oh dear Hawksport! you know summat I don't:scared::scared::scared:


Think I must

All the misquotes. if you look at post 274 the way you were quoted there is the reason for all the following misquotes


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> Sorry But I just HAVE To ASK ..How The Hell Doe's a Farrier end up with 2 Horses LEGS When I owned Horses MY Farrier just Removed put on New Shoes He did'nt take their LEGS :confused1:


:lol:

I know a riding school near here it doesn't do exmas anymore but 20 years ago it did.. When Merry legs was pts they brought her legs back so the students could learn all about the legs.. for real..:scared:


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Think I must
> 
> All the misquotes. if you look at post 274 the way you were quoted there is the reason for all the following misquotes


Still havn't worked it out! remember you were watching toy story earlier! well I have my eye on claude van dam


----------



## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

hawksport said:


> I'll continue to question the morals and ethics of someone that calls someone else they have never met or even heard of a liar and can't produce any evidence to back it up


But can This Vet prove that this Fox killed the cat?


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

snoopydo said:


> But can This Vet prove that this Fox killed the cat?


Can anyone here prove.
it wasn't that fox
it's not the biggest fox
it wasn't killed on Boxing day

If you're going to call someone a liar, back it up with evidence


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> But can This Vet prove that this Fox killed the cat?


None of us were there.. Not one of us.. Ive said this before..  We ar egoing of what was reported on the article..


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

hawksport said:


> Can anyone here prove.
> it wasn't that fox
> it's not the biggest fox
> it wasn't killed on Boxing day


and can you prove that it was that fox, was the biggest & was killed boxing day


----------



## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> :lol:
> 
> I know a riding school near here it doesn't do exmas anymore but 20 years ago it did.. When Merry legs was pts they brought her legs back so the students could learn all about the legs.. for real..:scared:


REALLY Think I'd rather stick to Books  Poor merrylegs....Her Legs were'nt so merry after that


----------



## carebear (Jun 10, 2009)

snoopydo said:


> But can This Vet prove that this Fox killed the cat?


looks like this fox has been feeding on a dam sight more than cats to me.


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> REALLY Think I'd rather stick to Books  Poor merrylegs....Her Legs were'nt so merry after that


Nope.. but Merry legs did have to die.. and she taught many people while she was alive, then when she was dead about problems in legs and they could see first hand the wear and tear of the poor old pony...


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Recent posts have brought to mind a conversation between me, a woman and a child that I assume was her grandchild. My banner has a picture that I use as my logo, of a Labrador, holding a grouse, that they're retrieving. The kiddie asked why the Lab had a bird in it's mouth, and ideal opportunity to educate children that some animals are eaten. But no, this lady chose to tell the child that the dog was retrieving it so it could be taken to the vet for treatment!


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Still havn't worked it out! remember you were watching toy story earlier! well I have my eye on claude van dam
> 
> If you look on post 274 you were quoted. But instead quoting your whole post Amythest edited the quote and left of the "quote " that sholuld have been at the end of the quote. So all subsequent quotes came out wrong.
> I have quoted you on this post and done the same, now if anyone quotes this it will come out wrong


----------



## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Nope.. but Merry legs did have to die.. and she taught many people while she was alive, then when she was dead about problems in legs and they could see first hand the wear and tear of the poor old pony...


So I Guess she was still helping people after her Death ..

Bless her ... She helped so many people learn to ride when alive.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Recent posts have brought to mind a conversation between me, a woman and a child that I assume was her grandchild. My banner has a picture that I use as my logo, of a Labrador, holding a grouse, that they're retrieving. The kiddie asked why the Lab had a bird in it's mouth, and ideal opportunity to educate children that some animals are eaten. But no, this lady chose to tell the child that the dog was retrieving it so it could be taken to the vet for treatment!


some people do like to keep the wool over kiddies eyes - I kinda think people should be aware as soon as their ready to question such things, if they go on to agree with it or not.


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> Agreed ....It Was Killed on Boxing Day.....But The BIGGEST Fox...Maybe there's an even BIGGER one out their on the prowl on the look out for this Vet.....
> 
> Daily Mail Headlines Tomorrow....Vet Found Mauled to Dealth By a Fox even bigger Gianter than ther other Giant one we reported on ....
> 
> We have a Pic of an EVEN MORE Gianter Emormous Fox standing by his Body.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Is gianter a word.. :lol:


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

hawksport said:


> DoubleTrouble said:
> 
> 
> > Still havn't worked it out! remember you were watching toy story earlier! well I have my eye on claude van dam
> ...


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> and can you prove that it was that fox, was the biggest & was killed boxing day


I'm not the one calling someone a liar, if I were I would back it up with evidence


----------



## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

carebear said:


> looks like this fox has been feeding on a dam sight more than cats to me.


There's a EVEN BIGGER one out there on the prowl/lookout for a Vet .....To have for his lunch.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

hawksport said:


> I'm not the one calling someone a liar, if I were I would back it up with evidence


I was messing hence the big grin  not that I even know whats going on in the threads, most of its well of topic - and I cant be bothered to read through all the post to get to the relevant ones!


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> So I Guess she was still helping people after her Death ..
> 
> Bless her ... She helped so many people learn to ride when alive.


She did... And so many when she was gone.. Bless her... And what I will say.. is her life was not wasted and neither was her death.. She had to die.. it was her time and she didn't die in vain..


----------



## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Is gianter a word.. :lol:


No but I'll bet my bottom Dollar the D/Mail would use it For Effect..:lol:


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> I was messing hence the big grin  not that I even know whats going on in the threads, most of its well of topic - and I cant be bothered to read through all the post to get to the relevant ones!


Well don't I've got enough on with that DT being confused


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

hawksport said:


> Well don't I've got enough on with that DT being confused


Its easily done


----------



## Guest (Jan 3, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> It shall be interesting to see what the League of Cruel Sports make of this in the next few days, I expect they be updating us at some point


This is your wonderful league

IWMC.org - eNewsletter - January 2004

Take note of the site that this information is on. Not a country sports site at all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...y-accused-of-hypocrisy-over-deer-culling.html
And spreading TB


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## fire-siamesekitty (Jun 8, 2010)

I like foxes but if it killed my one of my cats i wouldnt be happy


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

rona said:


> This is your wonderful league
> 
> IWMC.org - eNewsletter - January 2004
> 
> Take note of the site that this information is on. Not a country sports site at all.


I was going to let them find that for themselves League Against Cruel Sports accused of starving deer on its own sanctuary - Telegraph

The video


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

rona said:


> This is your wonderful league
> 
> IWMC.org - eNewsletter - January 2004
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting that Rona, I couldn't for the life of me remember the name of the *sanctuary* Baronsdown!


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## ruth9 (Mar 15, 2009)

I've just watched the youtube link of the vet talking about what happened. He said that the cat was sleeping on the mat, his parents heard a commotion and they looked out and saw a fox disappearing down the drive. The next morning they found bits of the cat on the lawn. 
It seems a bit quick to have only left bits of the cat, if the fox was already away when they heard the commotion and looked out, unless the fox came back for it. As they knew the cat was asleep on the mat why didn't they try to find the cat at the time of seeing the fox leaving if they'd heard a commotion?


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

If I knew my cat was outside on the mat and I heard a commotion..AND saw a Fox would'nt go back to bed and wait for the morning to go nd see what had happened. I'd be out there straight away..

Would'nt anyone?

And yes it did seem very quick.

Thats been most of the issue during this Thread..

How did The Vet Know the Fox that he killed Did the Deed?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

snoopydo said:


> How did The Vet Know the Fox that he killed Did the Deed?


and he killed two, so which ever one if any did kill the cat still leaves ones life taken.

Anyway if you let your cats out then you risk it being in danger, by being hit by cars, attacked by a dog or fox ect - bet the owers didnt care to much when the cat came back in with dead birds, frogs and the like - its nature for god sake.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

When my cats were still outside cats I did worry about foxes but it was one of the risks they took being outdoor cats, if they had been killed by a fox it would have been terrible but the creatureto blame would be me for allowing them to come into contact not the fox who saw an easy meal.


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## cool-jim (Dec 16, 2010)

Sorry for taking so long to get on here but this thread has run on a bit and I believe in reading all comments before I make mine.

At the end of the video, the "Biggest fox in the country" had been laid stretched out on the grass with another on it's side next to it. I think looking at them that the smaller one if stretched wouldn't be alot smaller. Looks like they could almost be a dog and vixen to me.

It was also said earlier that town foxes are full of desease and mange ridden. But this fox is one of the best I've ever seen. And I've seen a few. Such a shame that two magnificent creatures had to die due to a witch hunt.

Another thing that was said is that someone knew someone that had built a secure chicken run but a fox still got in. Didn't sound very secure to me and they can only blame themselves and learn from the mistake.


How long before someone says it wouldn't've happened if fox hunting was legal?



Sorry for not quoting people but I'm not going back over that lot.:scared:


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> If I knew my cat was outside on the mat and I heard a commotion..AND saw a Fox would'nt go back to bed and wait for the morning to go nd see what had happened. I'd be out there straight away..


I'll agree! My caat is old, and I panic when he is out in the dark! That cat should have been in!!
The ONE area I struggle to grasp her though is WHAT cat sits on a mat and waits for Mr fox to make a meal of him!

And it is a crying shame that foc where despatched! he did look a wonderful specimen!

Anyway IT so happens we had a dog fox here last night!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I'll agree! My caat is old, and I panic when he is out in the dark! That cat should have been in!!
> The ONE area I struggle to grasp her though is WHAT cat sits on a mat and waits for Mr fox to make a meal of him!
> 
> And it is a crying shame that foc where despatched! he did look a wonderful specimen!
> ...


It wouldn't suprise me if the cat was already dead when the fox took it, if the fox did take it


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> It wouldn't suprise me if the cat was already dead when the fox took it, if the fox did take it


I was actually thinking the same, or at least very ill!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I'll agree! My caat is old, and I panic when he is out in the dark! That cat should have been in!!
> The ONE area I struggle to grasp her though is WHAT cat sits on a mat and waits for Mr fox to make a meal of him!
> 
> And it is a crying shame that foc where despatched! he did look a wonderful specimen!
> ...


Seriously DT, Billy was asleep in the sun when he got took and he had no idea, i think from the accounts i had been given that he sprang at the last minute but it was too late and the dog was too close. He was old but in perfect health and pretty worldly wise as he was an ex farm cat but they just caught him out. I think it is possible for a fox to take an elderly cat but i would think it was a very rare incident.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> If I knew my cat was outside on the mat and I heard a commotion..AND saw a Fox would'nt go back to bed and wait for the morning to go nd see what had happened. I'd be out there straight away..
> 
> Would'nt anyone?
> 
> ...


Agree 

And as we have said who leaves a 19 year old cat out in freezing conditions to sleep on a mat outside their front door? Supposedly the parents rang son (vet) to explain they believed a fox was stalking their cat .... surely he would have at least advised them to keep cat indoors at night? The cat was an old lady at 19 for heavens sake 

What kind of vet tells them not to worry, when he knows an old cat is sleeping on a mat outside in December .... The coldest one we must have had for years. That poor cat should have been asleep safe indoors, if she had been mine and got out, I would not have gone to bed until she was safely inside ... And if I'd heard a commotion out there while waiting, I'd have been out with a torch calling and searching for her. Not, waiting as you say until morning ... Doesn't sit right does it 

Nope, as many are saying, there is something waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off with this whole fiasco


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I wouldn't disagree with that Noush, we have many non-native species, including the rabbit, one of the main prey items for the fox; for me, as you know it's all about keeping things in balance. I don't like to see animals killed for the sake of it, and to be quite honest, the prize offered for the largest fox is sickening. But then this thread has brought up quite a few opposite views that have been unecessarily rude and judgemental.


but the rabbit is a wild animal and has been here so long its an accepted part of our countryside, (and rather ironically its the fox who is their main predator keeping their numbers down....if allowed to:arf, the domestic cat dosent belong in the wild(anywhere!) so shouldnt be part of any balance of any eco system....it shouldnt be allowed to be killing anything full stop:eek6:

and i too am sickened by prizes being offered for the largest fox as you know i hate trophy hunting and in essence this is what it is....imo trophy hunters are a scourge on the planet



RAINYBOW said:


> I do think there is a distinct difference between a child understanding how and why animals die/ or are killed and encouraging children to revel in it.
> 
> In the last snowfall the park Ranger found a poor little mole frozen solid. I encouraged the children to look at it, it was beautifully preserved and a fantastic chance for them to see one as they are notoriously shy, they were of course interested but also saddened by its sad demise but hey ho thats life and sometimes it sucks, this is very different to taking the kids out with a spade and encouraging them to revel in the joy of bludgeoning a mole to death.


well said Rainy x



Amethyst said:


> Sorry, I did not mean you would want this or condone it, I share very much your thoughts here


its okay...and ive noticed we do seem to share much of the same opinions when it comes to animal cruelty


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> its okay...and ive noticed we do seem to share much of the same opinions when it comes to animal cruelty


Thank you, yes, I think we do indeed. I always take heart from the fact that fundamentally there are more people who care about animals and their welfare than partake in cruelty. Unfortunately those who abuse animals seem to get more airtime/newspaper space though 

Never mind, onwards and upwards


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> but the rabbit is a wild animal and has been here so long its an accepted part of our countryside, (and rather ironically its the fox who is their main predator keeping their numbers down....if allowed to:arf, the domestic cat dosent belong in the wild(anywhere!) so shouldnt be part of any balance of any eco system....it shouldnt be allowed to be killing anything full stop:eek6:
> 
> and i too am sickened by prizes being offered for the largest fox as you know i hate trophy hunting and in essence this is what it is....imo trophy hunters are a scourge on the planet


But doesn't that tell you IF the fox relies on an alien species to keep it's numbers up, that perhaps things could be slightly out of balance, and numbers somewhere may need controlling? Of course now foxes have all sorts of other food sources, so their numbers are sustained at even higher levels than would happen naturally. And surely if domestic cats have been here for hundreds of years, they too are part of the landscape, that logic just doesn't add up, you can't apply it to one species just because it's been here long enough, and not another.

I am honestly fed up of all the judgemental views on this thread. For heavens sake, now the elderly couple are being castigated for allowing their old cat to sleep on the front porch, and all sorts of things are being assumed and made up to fit with certain views. How very sad that people haven't got anything better to do. With hindsight, perhaps it does seem like a risky thing to do, particularly when they knew a fox was roaming around, but it's being made to sound like they purposefully neglected the cat by some quarters. Wow, what a family, the grandparents who are animal abusers for allowing their cat to sleep on the front porch, the evil vet who killed two foxes that we know of, and the little boy who, according to some, is obviously disturbed and evil stood next to a dead fox. What lovely form members we have   

Going back to a post made earlier, the page for the vet was most likely removed from the website because of fear of reprisal, I doubt very much it was because of his actions, I'm sure the practice knew about his hunting and shooting activities. And all because of shooting a fox, something that happens all the time, to control numbers where foxes have become a nuisance.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But doesn't that tell you IF the fox relies on an alien species to keep it's numbers up, that perhaps things could be slightly out of balance, and numbers somewhere may need controlling? Of course now foxes have all sorts of other food sources, so their numbers are sustained at even higher levels than would happen naturally. And surely if domestic cats have been here for hundreds of years, they too are part of the landscape, that logic just doesn't add up, you can't apply it to one species just because it's been here long enough, and not another.
> 
> I am honestly fed up of all the judgemental views on this thread. For heavens sake, now the elderly couple are being castigated for allowing their old cat to sleep on the front porch, and all sorts of things are being assumed and made up to fit with certain views. How very sad that people haven't got anything better to do. With hindsight, perhaps it does seem like a risky thing to do, particularly when they knew a fox was roaming around, but it's being made to sound like they purposefully neglected the cat by some quarters. Wow, what a family, the grandparents who are animal abusers for allowing their cat to sleep on the front porch, the evil vet who killed two foxes that we know of, and the little boy who, according to some, is obviously disturbed and evil stood next to a dead fox. What lovely form members we have
> 
> Going back to a post made earlier, the page for the vet was most likely removed from the website because of fear of reprisal, I doubt very much it was because of his actions, I'm sure the practice knew about his hunting and shooting activities. And all because of shooting a fox, something that happens all the time, to control numbers where foxes have become a nuisance.


I think that deserves rep.. But it wont let me..  xxx


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> I think that deserves rep.. But it wont let me..  xxx


Chuckle, thanks hun


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Chuckle, thanks hun


Well people have not spoken against it.. it doesn't mean they dont like it.. But others seem to think that if you dont voice disgust you are blood thirsty.. 
That is far from the truth, just maybe means some people have a better understanding, and maybe have some experience in the whole thing.. Rather than sitting in their chair and reading google and alike.. X


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Interesting to hear and read some of the anger and disgust this morning on various forums (and even chat in the papershop!) generated towards this story ... We are not alone in our opinion about the needless slaying of these foxes. The British public are not easily taken in it seems


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Interesting to hear and read some of the anger and disgust this morning on various forums (and even chat in the papershop!) generated towards this story ... We are not alone in our opinion about the needless slaying of these foxes. The British public are not easily taken in it seems


You must be reading different forums to me


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Well people have not spoken against it.. it doesn't mean they dont like it.. But others seem to think that if you dont voice disgust you are blood thirsty..
> That is far from the truth, just maybe means some people have a better understanding, and maybe have some experience in the whole thing.. Rather than sitting in their chair and reading google and alike.. X


Well I apparently know nothing about animals, amongst other things :thumbup:


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> You must be reading different forums to me


you mean you have given up on pink & fluffy


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Well I apparently know nothing about animals, amongst other things :thumbup:


Think am in the same bracket there.. :lol:.. Im not letting it bother me.. find other people quite funny when they go on and then state an act that have been seen doing an act of cruelty.. Quite funny!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> you mean you have given up on pink & fluffy


If you look on the pink fluffy forums you will get one view, if you look on the country sport forums you get one view. If you want to hear both views you need to look on both types of forum.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> you mean you have given up on pink & fluffy


DT did the fox come back last night for Maneux?


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

I thought I would post this

Ive just got back home from the vets, I had to collect some bloodwork results. While I was waiting on the fax I was small talking to the vet ( he isn't my normal vet he is the main partner ).

I asked him do you get many cats/dogs/pets come in from fox attacks?

He said its very rare and in his 30 yrs he has never had a pet arrive in the surgery either needing to be PTS or needing surgery.

I told him about the story and he did know about it as it was in his inbox on email when he got to work.

The only thing he would comment on is this

Its a VERY rare case if indeed that fox DID kill the cat, cats as he told me do put up a hell of a fight and it would be more of a dog that would attack a cat than a fox.

He then told me he has foxes that come to his garden and he treats them like any other kind of wildlife not vermin(sp).

I asked if he would ever shoot that fox, he said no he would want 100% proof it was indeed the killer.

I then asked ( because I could see I was pushing my luck ) If it was any of the vets here that did that what would happen. He then said it would make a hell of a hard time trying to get sick animals through the door because they would ask NOT to be treated by him.


I think my vet speaks sence


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Think am in the same bracket there.. :lol:.. Im not letting it bother me.. find other people quite funny when they go on and then state an act that have been seen doing an act of cruelty.. Quite funny!


I always say, I value the opinion of people I respect 

I'm also chuckling, how surprising, on mainly pet type of forums, where you get pet owners for the most part that aren't involved with any form of hunting/shooting, the same stuff is being posted. Wow, I nearly fell off my chair. :lol:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

bellathemog said:


> I thought I would post this
> 
> Ive just got back home from the vets, I had to collect some bloodwork results. While I was waiting on the fax I was small talking to the vet ( he isn't my normal vet he is the main partner ).
> 
> ...


I don't think any one disagrees that it's very rare for it to happen. I see foxes and cats on the front every night and have never seen a fox go near a cat.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> DT did the fox come back last night for Maneux?


Nope! Not much chance of of fox running off with these two! I should be so lucky!

It were Billy the Cat who was my concern and we got him in right away!

And these two are!!! here!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

bellathemog said:


> I thought I would post this
> 
> Ive just got back home from the vets, I had to collect some bloodwork results. While I was waiting on the fax I was small talking to the vet ( he isn't my normal vet he is the main partner ).
> 
> ...


He does indeed, great post, thank you for asking him about this, I know a few people are going to be doing very much the same. Good for you :thumbup:

Too right people, a **** of a lot of people anyway, would not want the "fox killing vet" to treat their beloved animals, most would shudder at the the very thought and your vet realises this 

You know to be honest I think this vet has done himself a lot of harm, people do NOT forget this type of thing quickly .....


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

bellathemog said:


> I thought I would post this
> 
> Ive just got back home from the vets, I had to collect some bloodwork results. While I was waiting on the fax I was small talking to the vet ( he isn't my normal vet he is the main partner ).
> 
> ...


TBH with you! and judging by the damage that my eldest cat did to my eldest dog (albeit when he were younger) then I think I would go along with you and your vet on that! 

Which again would leave us to question was this cat either that weak or already dead prior to the fox taking the body?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> He does indeed, great post, thank you for asking him about this, I know a few people are going to be doing very much the same. Good for you :thumbup:
> 
> Too right people, a **** of a lot of people anyway, would not want the "fox killing vet" to treat their beloved animals, most would shudder at the the very thought and your vet realises this
> 
> You know to be honest I think this vet has done himself a lot of harm, people do NOT forget this type of thing quickly .....


I find it very interesting that you feel this way about someone who kills an animal by a lawfull method but support people who kill animals by unlawfulll methods


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But doesn't that tell you IF the fox relies on an alien species to keep it's numbers up, that perhaps things could be slightly out of balance, and numbers somewhere may need controlling? Of course now foxes have all sorts of other food sources, so their numbers are sustained at even higher levels than would happen naturally. And surely if domestic cats have been here for hundreds of years, they too are part of the landscape, that logic just doesn't add up, you can't apply it to one species just because it's been here long enough, and not another.
> 
> I am honestly fed up of all the judgemental views on this thread. For heavens sake, now the elderly couple are being castigated for allowing their old cat to sleep on the front porch, and all sorts of things are being assumed and made up to fit with certain views. How very sad that people haven't got anything better to do. With hindsight, perhaps it does seem like a risky thing to do, particularly when they knew a fox was roaming around, but it's being made to sound like they purposefully neglected the cat by some quarters. Wow, what a family, the grandparents who are animal abusers for allowing their cat to sleep on the front porch, the evil vet who killed two foxes that we know of, and the little boy who, according to some, is obviously disturbed and evil stood next to a dead fox. What lovely form members we have
> 
> Going back to a post made earlier, the page for the vet was most likely removed from the website because of fear of reprisal, I doubt very much it was because of his actions, I'm sure the practice knew about his hunting and shooting activities. And all because of shooting a fox, something that happens all the time, to control numbers where foxes have become a nuisance.


the rabbit has been part of our countyside for the best part of a millenia and not only are they an important food source for our 'Native' foxes but also for other native predators such as buzzards, polecats and stoats etc ,Rabbits are also vital ecosystem engineers whose grazing maintains calcareous grassland,dune and heathland habitats, and the often rare species that depend on them.

so nope you cant compare a predatory non indiginous domestic species to an animal which has been here since Norman times and has helped shape our landscape,and altho not a pet the domestic cat is better compared to the mink imo.....and something else to bare in mind is the demise of the Scottish wild cat, our last wild cat species, which is in danger of extinction one significant factor for this is because of inbreeding with domestic cats...there are only about 400 pure wildcats left in Scotland yet thought to be some 3,500 hybrids!

and my views imo are valid ones


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

Oh forgot!!!!

Someone on here said about a fair few vets being into bloodsport/hunting etc??

I asked him and (this did make me laugh):lol: after using his fingers to count his vets in all 5 towns he has 30 vets and around 20 nurses, only 2 that he knows of goes hunting on horseback.

Also one vet there has her own yard/grounds housing damaged wildlife inc a fox. I know the nurse at my vets VERY well so I'm gonna dig some more and get some info on the back ground of this vet as I understand by what he was saying the vet even had outbuilding made to house the wildlife and to treat them in VERY good order.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

bellathemog said:


> Oh forgot!!!!
> 
> Someone on here said about a fair few vets being into bloodsport/hunting etc??
> 
> ...


By my reckoning that's 4% that follow hounds on horse back. Add those that are involved with other more popular country sports and the figure will be much higher


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> and my views imo are valid ones


They make perfect sense and are indeed as valid as anyone elses :thumbup:


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

bellathemog said:


> Oh forgot!!!!
> 
> Someone on here said about a fair few vets being into bloodsport/hunting etc??
> 
> ...


Two out of fifty sounds actually to be a high precentage when you calculation the entire population!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Two out of fifty sounds actually to be a high precentage when you calculation the entire population!


and this is only one sport, that probably has one of the lowest numbers of active participents


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> the rabbit has been part of our countyside for the best part of a millenia and not only are they an important food source for our 'Native' foxes but also for other native predators such as buzzards, polecats and stoats etc ,Rabbits are also vital ecosystem engineers whose grazing maintains calcareous grassland,dune and heathland habitats, and the often rare species that depend on them.
> 
> so nope you cant compare a predatory non indiginous domestic species to an animal which has been here since Norman times and has helped shape our landscape,and altho not a pet the domestic cat is better compared to the mink imo.....and something else to bare in mind is the demise of the Scottish wild cat, our last wild cat species, which is in danger of extinction one significant factor for this is because of inbreeding with domestic cats...there are only about 400 pure wildcats left in Scotland yet thought to be some 3,500 hybrids!
> 
> and my views imo are valid ones


I think you'll find if you do a bit of reading, they could well have arrived at the pretty much the same time 

The Domestication of the Cat

In fact cats may well have arrived earlier than rabbits, which were apparently introduced by the Normans for food and fur, and obviously proliferated, as they do. Rabbits also cause a lot of problems, not least with their burrows and obviously eating crops.

Natural England - Rabbits (Oryctolagus cuniculus)


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

bellathemog said:


> Oh forgot!!!!
> Someone on here said about a fair few vets being into bloodsport/hunting etc??
> 
> I asked him and (this did make me laugh):lol: after using his fingers to count his vets in all 5 towns he has 30 vets and around 20 nurses, only 2 that he knows of goes hunting on horseback.


It's a misconception that the majority of vets and doctors are all whooping it up hunting in the countryside on their days off. I've know a huge number of doctors and dated a few .... and never come accross one that hunted or had friends in their immediate circle (that I knew) who did so ... In some areas, it might be more popular and in "days gone by" when it was mainly the rich who could afford to train as doctors, it was indeed more likely 

But times are changing, thankfully, slowly but surely ...


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

hawksport said:


> I don't think any one disagrees that it's very rare for it to happen. I see foxes and cats on the front every night and have never seen a fox go near a cat.


Thats kind of the point though isnt it instead of getting embroilled in the whole anti/pro argument which will run and run.

It is a very rare occurence and therefore i think pretty senseless to go out and take down the animal that did it after just one incident and then pretty distasteful to revel in it and splash it all over the papers. I am not going to deny the fox took the cat, i think it is possible, however i am cynical enough to think it gave the vet a decent excuse for a bit of recreational fox shooting 

And i most certainly do not fall into the pink and fluffy camp on these matters, to be honest my thoughts on this sort of thing are so complex even i don't really understand them :lol: but my reaction in this instance is that it was a needless act brought about by ego and probably a touch of penis envy (mines bigger than yours and all that , surely as a vet he could have just gone and bought a sports car :lol: )


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

hawksport said:


> By my reckoning that's 4% that follow hounds on horse back. Add those that are involved with other more popular country sports and the figure will be much higher


Yep I was a little shocked when he said 2, both being sisters infact.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> It's a misconception that the majority of vets and doctors are all whooping it up hunting in the countryside on their days off. I've know a huge number of doctors and dated a few .... and never come accross one that hunted or had friends in their immediate circle (that I knew) who did so ... In some areas, it might be more popular and in "days gone by" when it was mainly the rich who could afford to train as doctors, it was indeed more likely
> 
> But times are changing, thankfully, slowly but surely ...


Did anyone say the majority were involved with country sports?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Thats kind of the point though isnt it instead of getting embroilled in the whole anti/pro argument which will run and run.
> 
> It is a very rare occurence and therefore i think pretty senseless to go out and take down the animal that did it after just one incident and then pretty distasteful to revel in it and splash it all over the papers. I am not going to deny the fox took the cat, i think it is possible, however i am cynical enough to think it gave the vet a decent excuse for a bit of recreational fox shooting
> 
> And i most certainly do not fall into the pink and fluffy camp on these matters, to be honest my thoughts on this sort of thing are so complex even i don't really understand them :lol: but my reaction in this instance is that it was a needless act brought about by ego and probably a touch of penis envy (mines bigger than yours and all that , surely as a vet he could have just gone and bought a sports car :lol: )


I agree with a lot of that, but given that a fox is an adaptable predator once it realised it could take on a cat (if it did I'm not 100% sure it wasn't already dead) wouldn't it carry on taking them?


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> It is a very rare occurence and therefore i think pretty senseless to go out and take down the animal that did it after just one incident and then pretty distasteful to revel in it and splash it all over the papers. I am not going to deny the fox took the cat, i think it is possible, however i am cynical enough to think it gave the vet a decent excuse for a bit of recreational fox shooting


totally agree


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> T
> It is a very rare occurence and therefore i think pretty senseless to go out and take down the animal that did it after just one incident and then pretty distasteful to revel in it and splash it all over the papers. I am not going to deny the fox took the cat, i think it is possible, however i am cynical enough to think it gave the vet a decent excuse for a bit of recreational fox shooting


And a little promotional exposure for the pro hunting fraternity eh 

Certainly extremely well timed, Boxing Day


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> And a little promotional exposure for the pro hunting fraternity eh
> 
> Certainly extremely well timed, Boxing Day


Who is it that gave them most of the exposure?


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

hawksport said:


> I agree with a lot of that, but given that a fox is an adaptable predator once it realised it could take on a cat (if it did I'm not 100% sure it wasn't already dead) wouldn't it carry on taking them?


Maybe maybe not but then IMO that is up to locals to protect their cats better.

Like i say i have a complex attitude to all this and given the story i think it was uneccesary at that point to shoot 2 foxes. Also its the parading of it and the fact he shot 2 i find really rubbish tbh.

We stayed at a fantastic cottage in Devon where the owner kept various animals. There was a fox with young and it was the bravest i have ever seen, i have video footage of it slinking down to forage the bins and it seemed totally unphased by our presence and even bought the young with it sometimes. Clearly we thought this was enchanting and the kids loved it, sitting in the outdoor hot tub up on the hill (Oooo get us !!) listening to the cubs playing in the scrub behind us is stored as a treasured memory. However sadly for Mrs Fox she got a bit too keen on one of the womans prize peacocks and the pest control boys were called  The woman had even previously brought in a couple of alpacas as she had read they were a good deterant apparently but the peacocks roamed too far.

I was sad for the fox and the kids were upset and didn't really understand it but i understood the view of the owner as i could see how these animals had really become pests on her property with the rubbish etc, still not something i would have done but i don't live on a smallholding  I don't really understand taking out a fox over one highly unusual incident and i understand even less why he had to take 2


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

bellathemog said:


> Yep I was a little shocked when he said 2, both being sisters infact.


If you add in those that are involved in the other more popular sports I would expect it to be around 12%. That's quite a high figure


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Maybe maybe not but then IMO that is up to locals to protect their cats better.


Again I have to agree with you.


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

YouTube - Cat holds fox hostage and starts licking

See kitties love foxes :lol:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

bellathemog said:


> YouTube - Cat holds fox hostage and starts licking
> 
> See kitties love foxes :lol:


Animals have more sense and compassion than many people :001_wub:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Animals have more sense and compassion than many people :001_wub:


2 questions for you since you must of missed them before

1 Did anyone say the majority were involved with country sports?
2 Who is it that gave them most of the exposure?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Someone has just sent me a link to a paper which has a pic of vet standing next to fox he killed and can you believe it????? The poor fox has now grown to what looks to be almost the size of the man himself .... Amazing what you can do now with photo's eh


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Someone has just sent me a link to a paper which has a pic of vet standing next to fox he killed and can you believe it????? The poor fox has now grown to what looks to be almost the size of the man himself .... Amazing what you can do now with photo's eh


Now I'm begining to think either you are using the evasion tactics you were so keen to call other people for, or you don't think the statements you made are worth justifying in which case why make them


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I think you'll find if you do a bit of reading, they could well have arrived at the pretty much the same time
> 
> The Domestication of the Cat
> 
> ...


dosent matter when they arrived they dont belong in the wild 'Anywhere' because they are domesticated! so they dont fit in to 'any' ecosystems and never will.

and i dont deny the rabbit causes lots of damage to crops either but at least we have plenty of 'Native' predators (i suppose we can include man here) who feed on them and keep their numbers in check, so inspite of the damage they can do to crops they do benefit land management as grazers, they might not be 'native' but they are considered naturalised, and infact are extremely beneficial to some of our rarest habitats(can any of this be said about the cat?? nope it cant!!)

Norfolk Wildlife Trust - Rabbits on the rise bring wide yellow eyes!


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## jomary-austin (Apr 9, 2009)

We all have our views on this so I'm putting mine forward just to make me feel better...

Firstly I think cats, especially elderly ones should be kept indoors, no other domestic animal is allowed to roam freely. That poor old cat was really vulnerable & it's owners failed to protect it.

The fox was hungry, it didn't really know nor care that the cat belonged to anybody, foxes are predators, they have a really tough time in the hunt for food and the cat was a sitting duck.

The vet is a disgrace & I really hope his customers up in Scotland let him know it. To kill a healthy wild animal really should be against the law and he had no right to arrange it however "humanely". 

Anyway, on a brighter note, somebody ran my cat over a couple of years ago so does this mean I can go round to his house and have him "humanely put to sleep" and have the picture plastered all over the tabloids?

What a sad story all round.

PS That grinning child needs a slap.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

jomary-austin said:


> We all have our views on this so I'm putting mine forward just to make me feel better...
> 
> Firstly I think cats, especially elderly ones should be kept indoors, no other domestic animal is allowed to roam freely. That poor old cat was really vulnerable & it's owners failed to protect it.
> 
> ...


I think he did have the right to arrange it
That doesn't mean I think he was right to arrange it


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

jomary-austin said:


> *Firstly I think cats, especially elderly ones should be kept indoors,* no other domestic animal is allowed to roam freely. That poor old cat was really vulnerable & it's owners failed to protect it.
> 
> PS *That grinning child needs a slap*.


Lmao :lol: and yeah I agree totally, cats in harms way should be indoors, simple really.


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## jomary-austin (Apr 9, 2009)

I don't understand why he had the right morally but since it's clearly not against the law I suppose he did legally, doesn't necessarily make it right though.

Can I have the sparrowhawk that regularly kills the blue tits in my garden killed just because they are cute? No, and quite rightly so.

I'm not picking a row, I just think its sad that we impose our human laws on nature. That wasn't murder, it was just an animal trying to survive. If you have chickens you do all you can to keep them secure at night, if you have an elderly cat you keep it safe especially when you know there are predators about as they clearly did. 

Now if you are talking about having to right the arrange the killing of evil people who think its fun to torture and kill animals for no other reason that because they are sad and sick I am listening.... but it aint going to happen is it? Sorry, I just found the story upsetting that's all.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Waterlily said:


> Lmao :lol: and yeah I agree totally, cats in harms way should be indoors, simple really.


Especially in freezing conditions, it is 19 years old and when owners are convinced it is being stalked by a giant fox. Simples ....


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> dosent matter when they arrived they dont belong in the wild 'Anywhere' because they are domesticated! so they dont 'fit in' to any ecosystems and never will.
> 
> and i dont deny the rabbit causes lots of damage to crops either but at least we have plenty of 'Native' predators (i suppose we can include man here) who feed on them and keep their numbers in check, so inspite of the damage they can do to crops they do benefit land management as grazers, they might not be 'native' but they are considered naturalised, and infact are extremely beneficial to some of our rarest ecosystems(can any of this be said about the cat?? nope it cant!!)
> 
> Norfolk Wildlife Trust - Rabbits on the rise bring wide yellow eyes!


I agree with you, the domesticated cat has done nothing but damage to our delicate island eco system, and I really hope that it's not too late for the Scottish Wild Cat. But there have been an awful lot of misconstrued facts on this forum about animals when it comes to hunting and shooting, this has been just one of them.

The only reason we own cats now, is as a pet, for our own gratification, because when they were initially introduced, it was as a working animal, to help control the population of vermin, some still are used this way. So through our (use of the royal our there) selfishness in wanting to own pets and not being responsible about it, we've managed to create a huge problem.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Especially in freezing conditions, it is 19 years old and when owners are convinced it is being stalked by a giant fox. Simples ....


YouTube - League Against Cruel Sports sanctuary exposÃ©


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

jomary-austin said:


> Firstly I think cats, especially elderly ones should be kept indoors, no other domestic animal is allowed to roam freely. That poor old cat was really vulnerable & it's owners failed to protect it.
> 
> .


I'll agree that weaker and older cats should be indoors! But never would I keep my cat solely indoors, as I have none I have owned, they have all been free to come and go as they pleae via cat flap - albeit the cat I have now we do lock in at night due to his age!

But Noush tells me (an she's seen him) that he may still be capable of seeing off a fox! That said I AINT gonna risk it so he is brought in! Admitidly in his day he were a big strong cat and I never worried that he would become a meal to Mr fox!! AND we do have a fox visit our garden regulary! - due to the chickens in the field next ot us I guess!

By the way forgot to say earlier! OH found a dead rabbit on the front this morning! it looked to be unharmed! OH thinks it may have been hit by a car but made it to us! I do wonder if Mr fox could have played a part and been scared off following the commotion lat night! but then if he had guess he would have been back for it eventually! The views of all welcome to this one?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I'll agree that weaker and older cats should be indoors! But never would I keep my cat solely indoors, as I have none I have owned, they have all been free to come and go as they pleae via cat flap - albeit the cat I have now we do lock in at night due to his age!
> 
> But Noush tells me (an she's seen him) that he may still be capable of seeing off a fox! That said I AINT gonna risk it so he is brought in! Admitidly in his day he were a big strong cat and I never worried that he would become a meal to Mr fox!! AND we do have a fox visit our garden regulary! - due to the chickens in the field next ot us I guess!
> 
> By the way forgot to say earlier! OH found a dead rabbit on the front this morning! it looked to be unharmed! OH thinks it may have been hit by a car but made it to us! I do wonder if Mr fox could have played a part and been scared off following the commotion lat night! but then if he had guess he would have been back for it eventually! The views of all welcome to this one?


A love token from Bordie?


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

hawksport said:


> A love token from Bordie?


hahaha


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

hawksport said:


> YouTube - League Against Cruel Sports sanctuary exposÃ©


I've seen this before and read about Baronsdown, it's an absolute disgrace.



DoubleTrouble said:


> I'll agree that weaker and older cats should be indoors! But never would I keep my cat solely indoors, as I have none I have owned, they have all been free to come and go as they pleae via cat flap - albeit the cat I have now we do lock in at night due to his age!
> 
> But Noush tells me (an she's seen him) that he may still be capable of seeing off a fox! That said I AINT gonna risk it so he is brought in! Admitidly in his day he were a big strong cat and I never worried that he would become a meal to Mr fox!! AND we do have a fox visit our garden regulary! - due to the chickens in the field next ot us I guess!
> 
> By the way forgot to say earlier! OH found a dead rabbit on the front this morning! it looked to be unharmed! OH thinks it may have been hit by a car but made it to us! I do wonder if Mr fox could have played a part and been scared off following the commotion lat night! but then if he had guess he would have been back for it eventually! The views of all welcome to this one?


It could have died of a viral infection, there's something that kills rabbits, viral haemmoraghic something or other where they show little or no outward signs.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It could have died of a viral infection, there's something that kills rabbits, viral haemmoraghic something or other where they show little or no outward signs.


With that they usually die underground don't they?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

hawksport said:


> With that they usually die underground don't they?


Yes, I believe so, but my OH has seen a couple above ground when he's been out rabbiting before. It definitely wasn't myxi.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

hawksport said:


> 2 questions for you since you must of missed them before
> 
> 1 Did anyone say the majority were involved with country sports?
> 2 Who is it that gave them most of the exposure?


I have quoted it fpr you again.. 

Obviously someone keeps missing this!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

My cat goes out and IF he got killed by a fox then I wouldnt want the fox shot! its my choice to let my cat out and therefore my responsibility if anything happens to him certainly not Mr Fox's!! he doesnt know that he is my loved pet he just knows he is supper - just like if my cat got knocked over by a car yes I would be upset and angry but really cannot blame the driver!!! - ultimately I dont think the fox should have been shot and certainly the picture with the little boy is bad taste and I dont think he should have even been in it.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Yes, I believe so, but my OH has seen a couple above ground when he's been out rabbiting before. It definitely wasn't myxi.


OH would have know if it were myxi! I did not see it, when he said unharmed he meant no blood! whether there was anything broken I dunno! and he's out! He told me he suspect it had been hit - probably by a car! maybe it did of shock!


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> OH would have know if it were myxi! I did not see it, when he said unharmed he meant no blood! whether there was anything broken I dunno! and he's out! He told me he suspect it had been hit - probably by a car! maybe it did of shock!


Maybe it was hit by a fox driving the car while two cats were sitting in the back tell it to drive faster with ya headlights on full!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> My cat goes out and IF he got killed by a fox then I wouldnt want the fox shot! its my choice to let my cat out and therefore my responsibility if anything happens to him certainly not Mr Fox's!! he doesnt know that he is my loved pet he just knows he is supper - just like if my cat got knocked over by a car yes I would be upset and angry but really cannot blame the driver!!! - ultimately I dont think the fox should have been shot and certainly the picture with the little boy is bad taste and I dont think he should have even been in it.


*Totally agree...Odd that it would be unacceptable for us to expect a cull on drivers that accidently kill our cats/pets but if 'allegedly' a fox kills a pet by doing what comes natural to them there's a demand for it to be killed or they demand a cull. *


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

bellathemog said:


> Maybe it was hit by a fox driving the car while two cats were sitting in the back tell it to drive faster with ya headlights on full!


Would that be AHs personal VW


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Totally agree...Odd that it would be unacceptable for us to expect a cull on drivers that accidently kill our cats/pets but if 'allegedly' a fox kills a pet by doing what comes natural to them there's a demand for it to be killed or they demand a cull. *


Exactly, and *allegedly* been the disturbing word in a disgusting act.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

bellathemog said:


> Maybe it was hit by a fox driving the car while two cats were sitting in the back tell it to drive faster with ya headlights on full!


Now I really do think you are exaggerating! just a little! The headlights were on full beam! So there was no need for the cats to be at in the back telling the fox to drive faster!! the poor thing just froze - simple as that!
No need to stretch the truth bellathemog:scared:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Totally agree...Odd that it would be unacceptable for us to expect a cull on drivers that accidently kill our cats/pets but if 'allegedly' a fox kills a pet by doing what comes natural to them there's a demand for it to be killed or they demand a cull. *


Yep very unfair on Mr Fox  and agree it is double standards for the most part.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Totally agree...Odd that it would be unacceptable for us to expect a cull on drivers that accidently kill our cats/pets but if 'allegedly' a fox kills a pet by doing what comes natural to them there's a demand for it to be killed or they demand a cull. *


Well! to be honest that dont sound a bad idea! As I know there are many that will deliberably aim to hit a cat or wildlife! OK! I know you are not supposed to swerve to avoid an animal - but to me it is human nature! But to aim at hitting one intentionally!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well! to be honest that dont sound a bad idea! As I know there are many that will deliberably aim to hit a cat or wildlife! OK! I know you are not supposed to swerve to avoid an animal - but to me it is human nature! But to aim at hitting one intentionally!


*I know of many people that deliberately put poison out for cats or shoot at them....If caught, all they get is a poxy slap on the wrist.*


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> OH would have know if it were myxi! I did not see it, when he said unharmed he meant no blood! whether there was anything broken I dunno! and he's out! He told me he suspect it had been hit - probably by a car! maybe it did of shock!





hawksport said:


> Would that be AHs personal VW


I think we have solved it!

Fox with a dodgy tash was driving a VW beetle while two 19 yr old indoor cats were in the back!

All not wearing seatbelts because it was a 1958 beetle so you don't need seat belts.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

bellathemog said:


> I think we have solved it!
> 
> Fox with a dodgy tash was driving a VW beetle while two 19 yr old indoor cats were in the back!
> 
> All not wearing seatbelts because it was a 1958 beetle so you don't need seat belts.


ROFL :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *I know of many people that deliberately put poison out for cats or shoot at them....If caught, all they get is a poxy slap on the wrist.*


That is another discusting practice! As with careless anfifreeze! AND! there re some that will go to great lenghts to poison a dog!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *I know of many people that deliberately put poison out for cats or shoot at them....If caught, all they get is a poxy slap on the wrist.*


Yep!! Of all the risks it is HUMANS that I fear the most with regard to the safety of my cat - we have a lot to answer for when it comes to animals


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Yep!! Of all the risks it is HUMANS that I fear the most with regard to the safety of my cat - we have a lot to answer for when it comes to animals


Yep I agree even so called animal lovers need a slap sometimes with what or how they treat their animals


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

bellathemog said:


> Yep I agree even so called animal lovers need a slap sometimes with what or how they treat their animals


Its the mindless violence against them  I just dont get it  seems to be getting more and more common too


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Its the mindless violence against them  I just dont get it  seems to be getting more and more common too


We live in a society where we no longer have to take responsibility for our actions. Whatever we do there will be a group of bleeding hearts to make exuses for us


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

hawksport said:


> We live in a society where we no longer have to take responsibility for our actions. Whatever we do there will be a group of bleeding hearts to make exuses for us


True - its time we got tough! but doubt it will ever happen now.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

hawksport said:


> We live in a society where we no longer have to take responsibility for our actions. Whatever we do there will be a group of bleeding hearts to make exuses for us


yep and I wish they would just bleed out and die lol :arf:


umm ya know that wasnt literal right :confused1:


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

bellathemog said:


> YouTube - Cat holds fox hostage and starts licking
> 
> See kitties love foxes :lol:


I love this youtube vid, sooooo cute!


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

ps. I would like to add that I think it was wrong for these foxes to be killed. It was the cat owners fault, they let the poor thing sleep outside on a doormat, even though they had prior warning of a fox lurking about. Shame on them, evil pensioners. And the poor cat paid the price.


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> yep and I wish they would just bleed out and die lol :arf:
> 
> 
> umm ya know that wasnt literal right :confused1:


Thats what I would like all the hunt supporters to do (me bad).


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

Talking foxies

Has anyone took the time to view this guys pet fox?

YouTube - Petting my fox; Ron: "oooh, aah, aaaah"

He has a few videos.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

bellathemog said:


> Talking foxies
> 
> Has anyone took the time to view this guys pet fox?
> 
> ...


Is that its mum behind him


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

bellathemog said:


> Talking foxies
> 
> Has anyone took the time to view this guys pet fox?
> 
> ...


Someone at my college has a pet fox. Orphaned they took it in and it acts like a dog.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Is that its mum behind him


That's what I thought


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

hawksport said:


> Is that its mum behind him


I knew someone would pick that up, lets hope not. After reading more on that person he seems to be in love with Mr fox, so lets hope not


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Is that its mum behind him


I thought that too 

heres what he wrote in response:

"that was a skin we bought from a cattle﻿ farmer in rural Argentina, South America. Out there, sadly, the farmers shootfoxes as pests.

I would never kill a fox, but at that time when I got this dried skin, it was﻿ the only way to have a fox near me, I tanned it like the Indians did, using cow brains.

I do not support fur farming. This pelt was a fox a farmer had killed to protect his chickens; I was doing no cruelty to an animal, that was not killed for me"

foxalbiazul

Do you all believe that????


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

MrDarcy said:


> I thought that too
> 
> heres what he wrote in response:
> 
> ...


no way, I mean I want a pet dingo but wont settle for the skin or corpse of one instead :scared:


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

MrDarcy said:


> I thought that too
> 
> heres what he wrote in response:
> 
> ...


Not too sure. Surely if he had killed the mother, he would have killed this little fox too :confused1:


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

MrDarcy said:


> I thought that too
> 
> heres what he wrote in response:
> 
> ...


Not a word  That would be some lovely footage had it not been for the skin dangling in the background.

If he loved the species that much he'd appreciate the beauty of the fur on the animal's living body.... Not the pelt


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

It will be a nice coat when he's finnished fattening it up


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> It will be a nice coat when he's finnished fattening it up


You have probably hit the nail on the head there. The poor wee angel, in the hands of a sick F***


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

MissShelley said:


> Not a word  That would be some lovely footage had it not been for the skin dangling in the background.
> 
> If he loved the species that much he'd appreciate the beauty of the fur on the animal's living body.... Not the pelt


Totally agree.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I agree with you, the domesticated cat has done nothing but damage to our delicate island eco system, and I really hope that it's not too late for the Scottish Wild Cat. But there have been an awful lot of misconstrued facts on this forum about animals when it comes to hunting and shooting, this has been just one of them.
> 
> The only reason we own cats now, is as a pet, for our own gratification, because when they were initially introduced, it was as a working animal, to help control the population of vermin, some still are used this way. So through our (use of the royal our there) selfishness in wanting to own pets and not being responsible about it, we've managed to create a huge problem.


good to see you now agree with me about domestic cats

and i agree with your statement about them... and i hope im right in saying that more and more owners are taking responsibility for their pets and not allowing them to roam, indiginous wildlife should not be suffering because of an alien pet species, what i find so distasteful about this vet is that he deliberatly and indescriminatley set traps to catch and kill any unfortunate fox which strayed into them to avenge the cat....again his actions not only show a total disregard for the 2 foxes lives but it shows he understands or cares nothing about the ecology of our country.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> good to see you now agree with me about domestic cats
> 
> and i agree with your statement about them... and i hope im right in saying that more and more owners are taking responsibility for their pets and not allowing them to roam, indiginous wildlife should not be suffering because of an alien pet species, what i find so distasteful about this vet is that he deliberatly and indescriminatley set traps to catch and kill any unfortunate fox which strayed into them to avenge the cat....*again his actions not only show a total disregard for the 2 foxes lives but it shows he understands or cares nothing about the ecology of our country.*


I disagree I'm afraid, my own Vet is one who supports some forms of hunting and shooting, although I don't believe he actively partakes in any forms himself. The traps that were set for the foxes would have been live traps, much like a dog crate. They were shot by someone obviously experienced in using a rifle, and probably died much more cleanly than many more do in the wild. I personally think it's up to the individual, if they have the ways and means, and go about it legally and humanely, to decide whether they want to risk allowing foxes to carry on predating.

Many foxes are shot to control numbers and limit their impact predating on livestock, and yet we still have a very healthy population of foxes overall. Many crows and pigeons are, and yet we still have huge numbers of both.

There are probably a number of smaller mammals that benefit from levels of other birds and animals being controlled. In some cases, these are going to be much less in numbers, so it helps to keep it all in balance. If you watched the footage from Baronsdown, about red deer, it shows you what can happen if you allow a population to thrive at unsustainable numbers. In a similar way that when numbers of rabbits build up, they start to easily spread disease between them, and in the same way that you often see urban foxes that have mange.

All animals are beautiful, but we don't have the privilege of living in an eco system that can take care of itself, if we left it to it's own devices. We would more than likely loose a lot of beautiful animals and features of our landscape. I've said it many times, it's not nice thinking of animals dying, but I'd rather see a healthy population of sustainable animals overall, than allow an unbalanced and unhealthy population to take over, because some people don't agree that numbers should be controlled for some species.


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I disagree I'm afraid, my own Vet is one who supports some forms of hunting and shooting, although I don't believe he actively partakes in any forms himself. The traps that were set for the foxes would have been live traps, much like a dog crate. They were shot by someone obviously experienced in using a rifle, and probably died much more cleanly than many more do in the wild. I personally think it's up to the individual, if they have the ways and means, and go about it legally and humanely, to decide whether they want to risk allowing foxes to carry on predating.
> 
> Many foxes are shot to control numbers and limit their impact predating on livestock, and yet we still have a very healthy population of foxes overall. Many crows and pigeons are, and yet we still have huge numbers of both.
> 
> ...


Do you not think the poor foxes were distressed while in the traps for many hours? This is not "humane"


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Do you not think the poor foxes were distressed while in the traps for many hours? This is not "humane"


Were they in a trap for many hours?


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Were they in a trap for many hours?


Probably....Many caught this way can be even a couple of days. Believe me, I know.

Try and nit pick my posts, all you like. It will NEVER act as a cover of the real issue here BLOOD SPORTS, aptly named don't you think?

Like someone said earlier on this thread, men and their penis eny...My dead fox is bigger than your dead fox.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Probably....Many caught this way can be even a couple of days. Believe me, I know.


I think if we are going to debate things we should at least stick to facts.
That's not nit picking, your whole post was just an assumption based on no evidence. If you care to look through this thread you will see that at no point have I agreed it was right to kill this fox


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> I think if we are going to debate things we should at least stick to facts.
> That's not nit picking, your whole post was just an assumption based on no evidence. If you care to look through this thread you will see that at no point have I agreed it was right to kill this fox


Now thats petty  Do you know something I don't? The reality is...in all likelyhood the foxes would have been in the traps for quite sometime (distressed, wild animals do that when trapped) before being discovered....


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> I think if we are going to debate things we should at least stick to facts.
> That's not nit picking, your whole post was just an assumption based on no evidence. If you care to look through this thread you will see that at no point have I agreed it was right to kill this fox


In my experiance any traps used have been checked daily... I was led to believe that was a legal regulation that pest control people are required to work by. And this is how pest control conducted themselves when I have worked with them (extensively)

Sadly when it comes to killing any "pest" there is a matter of picking the lesser of many evils. Poison, its a long slow death. Hunts are long winded and stressful for the fox. Shooting free could miss and leave an injured fox to suffer a slow painful death. A trap at least means its over quickly... Worst case the animal is stressed for some hours (not days).

(also not saying i agree with killing the fox, just pointing out the options)


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Savahl said:


> In my experiance any traps used have been checked daily... I was led to believe that was a legal regulation that pest control people are required to work by. And this is how pest control conducted themselves when I have worked with them (extensively)
> 
> Sadly when it comes to killing any "pest" there is a matter of picking the lesser of many evils. Poison, its a long slow death. Hunts are long winded and stressful for the fox. Shooting free could miss and leave an injured fox to suffer a slow painful death. A trap at least means its over quickly... Worst case the animal is stressed for some hours (not days).
> 
> (also not saying i agree with killing the fox, just pointing out the options)


I agree, it is the lesser of the evils you quote, but humane? Na, have to disagree!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Now thats petty  Do you know something I don't? The reality is...in all likelyhood the foxes would have been in the traps for quite sometime (distressed, wild animals do that when trapped) before being discovered....


What's petty. You have no imformation on how long this fox was in a trap for.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

MrDarcy said:


> I agree, it is the lesser of the evils you quote, but humane? Na, have to disagree!


There is no truly humane way to kill a wild animal really. But sometimes there are few options available.

In this case they may have had other options in my opinion. Protect their pets when you know there are foxes showing interest in them. Ask neighbours not to encourage foxes by feeding them. Makes sure people dont leave trash bags on the floor - if there is no food a wild animal is unlikely to hang about.

But we dont know all the info. The foxes may have been a recurring problem, the article really only focusses on the fox size not the background in much detail other than that of the cat. Neighbours may have refused to stop feeding them.
Or he may have just wanted an excuse to get an impressive kill.
We really dont know, so how can we judge these people.


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> What's petty. You have no imformation on how long this fox was in a trap for.


Neither do you, and your point is?

Guilty conscious?


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Savahl said:


> There is no truly humane way to kill a wild animal really. But sometimes there are few options available.
> 
> In this case they had other options in my opinion. Protect their pets when you know there are foxes showing interest in them. Ask neighbours not to encourage foxes by feeding them. Makes sure people dont leave trash bags on the floor - if there is no food a wild animal is unlikely to hang about!


Yip, totally agree with you. The humans were at fault here! Not Mr Foxy.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Neither do you, and your point is?
> 
> Guilty conscious?


Why would I feel guilty? I had no more to do with it than you


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Why would I feel guilty? I had no more to do with it than you


Guilty, cos it seems you are all for blood sports (not specificly this fox). Correct me if I assume wrongly?

Always ends up a word/spelling twist with guys who have blood on their hands, to deflect from the real issue here, MURDER.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Guilty, cos it seems you are all for blood sports (not specificly this fox). Correct me if I assume wrongly?


I'm not that keen on badger baiting or dog fighting so it depends on which blood sport you mean. If you could be a bit more specific I will answer you.


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> I'm not that keen on badger baiting or dog fighting so it depends on which blood sport you mean. If you could be a bit more specific I will answer you.


zzzzzzzz lol.

Any sport that involves the death of an animal, with human intervention as sport/fun/perseved need.

Yes, even Falconry. But thats a whole different topic


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

MrDarcy said:


> zzzzzzzz lol.
> 
> Any sport that involves the death of an animal, with human intervention as sport/fun/perseved need.
> 
> Yes, even Falconry. But thats a whole different topic


Surely falconry is allowing the bird to do what it does naturally (and would do in nature)? Hardly in the same catagory as chasing a fox on horseback...


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> zzzzzzzz lol.
> 
> Any sport that involves the death of an animal, with human intervention as sport/fun/perseved need.
> 
> Yes, even Falconry. But thats a whole different topic


So are you and your pets all vegaterian or do you pay someone else to do your murdering for you?


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> So are you and your pets all vegaterian or do you pay someone else to do your murdering for you?


That old chesnut more zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I am vegan, and pets have a special diet that includes no dead animal protein. You can only buy it online, but it is outhere.

Just to add, I do not wear leather or fur.

I cannot say my life is 100% cruelty free with certainty. But at least I give it a good damn try.

edit to add:

Vegetarian cat food: Ami and Benevo - both of which contain taurine and arachidonic acid. Yarrah is currently investigating the possibilities of producing a vegetarian cat food in the near future.

Organic meat cat food: OrganiPets and Yarrah.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

MrDarcy said:


> That old chesnut more zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I am vegan, and pets have a special diet that includes no dead animal protein. You can only buy it online, but it is outhere.
> 
> Just to add, I do not wear leather or fur.
> 
> I cannot say my life is 100% cruelty free with certainty. But at least I give it a good damn try.


What pets do you have?


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Just changing the subject back to the 2 out of 50 people in the vets practise do any kind of hunting,, was this vet just quoting vets in the small animals vet world,, or does this also include farm vets horse vets,, because i bet a far few farm vets see the damage done by foxes would possible agree with the damage foxes do... I just can't see this one vets can say only 2 out of 50 animals people he knows does this,, i feel this is a ner ner nernerner quip.

also I wasn't sure and i could be wrong have been wrong before I haven't read anywhere this cat was an indoor cat!!! I was of the understanding it just slept on the doormat, 

And why do some people keep harping on about the fox being PTS boxng day,,, the vet was down with his parents thats the day he caught it,, I don't understnad why your so stressed that it was on boxing day?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> That old chesnut more zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I am vegan, and pets have a special diet that includes no dead animal protein. You can only buy it online, but it is outhere.
> 
> Just to add, I do not wear leather or fur.
> 
> I cannot say my life is 100% cruelty free with certainty. But at least I give it a good damn try.


Well if that is true then I respect you for that.
Perhaps you could answer this for me. Given a choice of an animal that has been removed from it's parent at an un natural age had ear tags put in, been loaded on and off lories, been sent back and forth to market and then to an abbatoir to be killed. Or an animal that has led a natural free life the way nature intended before being chased for 10 seconds and killed. Which do you believe is the more ethical of the two?


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Savahl said:


> What pets do you have?


Cats. And I know the importance of taurine!


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Well if that is true then I respect you for that.
> Perhaps you could answer this for me. Given a choice of an animal that has been removed from it's parent at an un natural age had ear tags put in, been loaded on and off lories, been sent back and forth to market and then to an abbatoir to be killed. Or an animal that has led a natural free life the way nature intended before being chased for 10 seconds and killed. Which do you believe is the more ethical of the two?


The latter, although it pains me to say it.  But the lesser of two evils, is still evil.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

MrDarcy said:


> Cats. And I know the importance of taurine!


yeah me too


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> Just changing the subject back to the 2 out of 50 people in the vets practise do any kind of hunting,, was this vet just quoting vets in the small animals vet world,, or does this also include farm vets horse vets,, because i bet a far few farm vets see the damage done by foxes would possible agree with the damage foxes do... I just can't see this one vets can say only 2 out of 50 animals people he knows does this,, i feel this is a ner ner nernerner quip.
> 
> also I wasn't sure and i could be wrong have been wrong before I haven't read anywhere this cat was an indoor cat!!! I was of the understanding it just slept on the doormat,
> 
> And why do some people keep harping on about the fox being PTS boxng day,,, the vet was down with his parents thats the day he caught it,, I don't understnad why your so stressed that it was on boxing day?


I quoted the 50 people working in MY OWN VETS only TWO have been known to carry out bloodsport/hunting whatever you wish to call it.

My VET should know as he EMPLOYEES them


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> yeah me too


I am glad.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> The latter, although it pains me to say it.  But the lesser of two evils, is still evil.


Thankyou.
Now could you explain why I should feel guilty for this fox when my meat by your own admision is more ethical than a non hunters meat.


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Thankyou.
> Now could you explain why I should feel guilty for this fox when my meat by your own admision is more ethical than a non hunters meat.


I think my quote "The lesser of two evils, is still evil" covers that argument?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> I think my quote "The lesser of two evils, is still evil" covers that argument?


I don't understand why I should feel guilty when I don't agree with the killing of this fox. But people who eat less ethical meat than me don't need to feel guilty.


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> I don't understand why I should feel guilty when I don't agree with the killing of this fox. But people who eat less ethical meat than me don't need to feel guilty.


Yip, got to agree with you on that one. 

But animals die for your sport, do they not? I know that if your birds were wild they would do, what they do in the wild. It is the "sport" part/ human enjoyment of the kill that bothers me.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> I don't understand why I should feel guilty when I don't agree with the killing of this fox. But people who eat less ethical meat than me don't need to feel guilty.


Couldn't agree with you more! 
But then there are many many angles that should be made to feel equally guilty! gThose that t partake in grey hound racing, horse racing, certain breeders to name but a few!


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

bellathemog said:


> I quoted the 50 people working in MY OWN VETS only TWO have been known to carry out bloodsport/hunting whatever you wish to call it.
> 
> My VET should know as he EMPLOYEES them


GGrrrr i wish i was better with words,,he knows his employees granted,, but what I am stumbling over is that there are many vets out there that are large animals ones,,horse vets they live in the world of the country side. 
your vet knows only a handfull, is he a country vet of small animals or a townie animal vet.


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> GGrrrr i wish i was better with words,,he knows his employees granted,, but what I am stumbling over is that there are many vets out there that are large animals ones,,horse vets they live in the world of the country side.
> your vet knows only a handfull, is he a country vet of small animals or a townie animal vet.


Mine is a town vet but the others are country vets, all major players at the Animal Health Trust over in Newmarket


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Yip, got to agree with you on that one.
> 
> But animals die for your sport, do they not? I know that if your birds were wild they would do, what they do in the wild. It is the "sport" part/ human enjoyment of the kill that bothers me.


Animals do die. But before I started rabbit control here there were rabbits in such high numbers you could walk around and pick up by hand a van load that were full of mixi. I don't believe that anyone would prefer that to the smaller healthier population I have now.
As for the enjoyment. Falconry is about testing a hawk or falcon against wild game. So by the very nature of the flight the one that gets away is the one that has given the falconer the best, most enjoyable flight. The one that because it's fit and healthy I want to survive the winter and pass its genes on the following spring.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

thats awful, I cant believe that htey are smiling like its a trophy


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

hawksport said:


> Animals do die. But before I started rabbit control here there were rabbits in such high numbers you could walk around and pick up by hand a van load that were full of mixi. I don't believe that anyone would prefer that to the smaller healthier population I have now.
> As for the enjoyment. Falconry is about testing a hawk or falcon against wild game. So by the very nature of the flight the one that gets away is the one that has given the falconer the best, most enjoyable flight. The one that because it's fit and healthy I want to survive the winter and pass its genes on the following spring.


Have to say i agree with this, we have had mixy in our CP for the last few years and its awful to see the creatures suffer. I would much rather they were put out of their misery and if Oscar got hold of one i wouldn't intervene


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Have to say i agree with this, we have had mixy in our CP for the last few years and its awful to see the creatures suffer. I would much rather they were put out of their misery and if Oscar got hold of one i wouldn't intervene


This will be the last year I hawk rabbits. I have a feeling I won't like what will happen to them over the next few years


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> This will be the last year I hawk rabbits. I have a feeling I won't like what will happen to them over the next few years


Explain? please?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Have to say i agree with this, we have had mixy in our CP for the last few years and its awful to see the creatures suffer. I would much rather they were put out of their misery and if Oscar got hold of one i wouldn't intervene


Rabbits can be treated for early stages of mixy to  Although I do agree with you - the suffering is awful to watch, Three of mine likes chasing rabbits (  ) if they was to catch one suffering from mixy I wouldnt stop them. work can go through periods of being full to the rims of affected rabbits a sad sight.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Rabbits can be treated for early stages of mixy to  Although I do agree with you - the suffering is awful to watch, Three of mine likes chasing rabbits (  ) if they was to catch one suffering from mixy I wouldnt stop them. work can go through periods of being full to the rims of affected rabbits a sad sight.


Its just not always practical to treat some colonies (not sure what the collective word for rabbits is :lol

You get the moron parents in the CP who seem to think its fine and "cute" to let their kids pet the poor things that are too blind to know whats happening, must be so frightening for them 

I generally go and get the ranger and he sorts it out, i am sadly too weak to do whats needed


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Its just not always practical to treat some colonies (not sure what the collective word for rabbits is :lol
> 
> You get the moron parents in the CP who seem to think its fine and "cute" to let their kids pet the poor things that are too blind to know whats happening, must be so frightening for them
> 
> I generally go and get the ranger and he sorts it out, i am sadly too weak to do whats needed


It may not always be practical but if someone brings a rabbit in that is suffering from it - it will be treated (if its not to far gone - if it is then it will be pts).

Yes its not nice - they do get stressed, and of course as they cant see are rather fearful - its a shame. If I think rabbits with Mixy should be treated or not is another matter for me it depends how far gone its gone, but I dont like to see them suffer, slowly getting worse - but I cant tell them higher than me what to do :lol:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Explain? please?


The more dense a population of any animal is the easier it is for a virus to spread. With mixi what you usually get is a bad year when 90% of rabbits are wiped out. Then 3 or 4 years where loses are smaller while the population builds again. Then the process is repeated.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

As it's a legal requirement for land owners to control rabbits I cant see many going out of their way to treat those that have mixy


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> The more dense a population of any animal is the easier it is for a virus to spread. With mixi what you usually get is a bad year when 90% of rabbits are wiped out. Then 3 or 4 years where loses are smaller while the population builds again. Then the process is repeated.


Cheers, thanks for explaining.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Cheers, thanks for explaining.


You're welcome Mr Darcy.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

hawksport said:


> As it's a legal requirement for land owners to control rabbits I cant see many going out of their way to treat those that have mixy


I am talking members of the general public bringing them into a wildlife hospital - who then treat them. Of course any
lander owner that sees 'any' rabbit on their land will deal with it themselves.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> I am talking members of the general public bringing them into a wildlife hospital - who then treat them. Of course any
> lander owner that sees 'any' rabbit on their land will deal with it themselves.


I'm with you now. Personally I would rather they were killed there and then rather than being moved around with the risk of spreading disease.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

hawksport said:


> I'm with you now. Personally I would rather they were killed there and then rather than being moved around with the risk of spreading disease.


I may just agree with rabbits affected by mixy but shhs!


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

hawksport said:


> I'm with you now. Personally I would rather they were killed there and then rather than being moved around with the risk of spreading disease.


if one of my dogs caught a mixy rabbit would it harm them?

i wish i was stronger and could do the needed deed if i saw one that needed help but i am a big wuss and have to get oh to do it


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> I may just agree with rabbits affected by mixy but shhs!


I wont tell anyone.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

mumof6 said:


> if one of my dogs caught a mixy rabbit would it harm them?
> 
> i wish i was stronger and could do the needed deed if i saw one that needed help but i am a big wuss and have to get oh to do it


Not at all. You can eat them yourself if you like.


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

hawksport said:


> Not at all. You can eat them yourself if you like.


i wouldn't get a look in with the dogs...


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

mumof6 said:


> i wouldn't get a look in with the dogs...


:lol: You defo need a CC then  Ours like whole rabbits :scared:


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

So, if any of your pets were ill or dying, you would let another animal rip it apart to end their suffering? Warped, much?


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

MrDarcy said:


> So, if any of your pets were ill or dying, you would let another animal rip it apart to end their suffering? Warped, much?


aww geez


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> So, if any of your pets were ill or dying, you would let another animal rip it apart to end their suffering? Warped, much?


are you serious?  Do you know what mixy is? The suffering that is caused if left? How quick it can spread? Stopping a wild animal from suffering is NOT the same as sitting back while a domestic pet suffers - Coming from someone that doesnt agree with killing animals for sport or any OTHER reason that isnt in the best interest of the animal


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> So, if any of your pets were ill or dying, you would let another animal rip it apart to end their suffering? Warped, much?


Errr no i would take it to the vets  but the rabbits in the CP don't have that luxury and using emotive terms like "rip it apart" is just ignorant.

You are happier that they suffer long slow protracted deaths then rather than the 15 seconds it would take a dog to despatch it ( a F site quicker than the rangers can too) ???


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> So, if any of your pets were ill or dying, you would let another animal rip it apart to end their suffering? Warped, much?


Have you ever seen a rabbit covered in sores with maggots eating its eyes, ears and a**e. ? Not everyone has what it takes to put an animal out of its misery themselves.


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> Errr no i would take it to the vets  but the rabbits in the CP don't have that luxury and using emotive terms like "rip it apart" is just ignorant.
> 
> You are happier that they suffer long slow protracted deaths then rather than the 15 seconds it would take a dog to despatch it ( a F site quicker than the rangers can too) ???


I am far from ignorant! 

And if I want to use the words "rip it apart", in my post, I will


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

MrDarcy said:


> So, if any of your pets were ill or dying, you would let another animal rip it apart to end their suffering? Warped, much?


Not really a comparison! Of course NO responsible pet owner would see their pets suffer! However, in the wild it ain't quite so pink and fluffy as some would like to think! survival of the fittest! A myxomatosis or pox ridden rabbits can neither feed nor drink and end not to mention other complications! You would sooner an animal suffer that would you? if you are unsure check out the symptems then decide!
In the ideal world we would like to see nothing suffer! but we don't live in an ideal world!


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

MrDarcy said:


> I am far from ignorant!
> 
> And if I want to use the words "rip it apart", in my post, I will


well it is what happens isnt it may as well be factual that is after all what this thread is aiming for.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> I am far from ignorant!
> 
> And if I want to use the words "rip it apart", in my post, I will


Far from ignorant he says...

.....the second part of your post says different


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Have you ever seen a rabbit covered in sores with maggots eating its eyes, ears and a**e. ? Not everyone has what it takes to put an animal out of its misery themselves.


Believe me, I have seen it. I am not wet around the collar, it is totally hellish! But I wouldn't let people use these poor things for sport either. No easy answer to this one, but it still feels wrong to me.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

We shot our pet rat yesterday, she was old and had a lump the vet said it should be ok, but we didn't expect her to go down hill the way she did over night,on her side fitting with blood coming out of her nose, she would have been dead before we got the vets and she was in a bad way, so we took her out and put her out of her state,, 

Hard to do but the best for her and it was all done nicely she was wrapped up and probable didn't even know we had picked her up,, sometimes you do have to shoot and animal whether you like it or not.. although I don't think I could do it to a cat or dog,, but yes a fox i could if it was hurt or a rabbit..


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

MrDarcy said:


> Believe me, I have seen it. I am not wet around the collar, it is totally hellish! But I wouldn't let people use these poor things for sport either. No easy answer to this one, but it still feels wrong to me.


So you would like to see the entire rabbit population wiped out would you!


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

This report was inb teh Daily mail...the paper who would support a repeal of the hunting ban? ummm clever reporting?

Personally I have no problem with the fox being PTS humanely as I'd rather that than it was chased through the countryside running from the inevitable torture.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Believe me, I have seen it. I am not wet around the collar, it is totally hellish! But I wouldn't let people use these poor things for sport either. No easy answer to this one, but it still feels wrong to me.


I certainly wouldn't call it sport. The options are.
1 Leave it to suffer for a few more days and spread disease and then be torn apart by a fox
2 Kill it yourself, which some people couldn't do
3 Let a dog tear it apart
4 Take it to a vet bearing in mind as you said it would be frightened and risk spreading disease to clear areas.
I prefer option 2 if that wasn't possible then option 3


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

MrDarcy said:


> Believe me, I have seen it. I am not wet around the collar, it is totally hellish! But I wouldn't let people use these poor things for sport either. No easy answer to this one, but it still feels wrong to me.


nope! you are not wet around the collar! you are positivly soaked I'd say!


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Humanly PTS springs to mind.

I work near wooded area, and have lost count of the number of mixi rabbits I have caught and called the RSPCA to PTS.  Worked also to save them, if not too far gone.

As I said, not wet around the ears.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Believe me, I have seen it. I am not wet around the collar, it is totally hellish! But I wouldn't let people use these poor things for sport either. No easy answer to this one, but it still feels wrong to me.


what do 'you' suggest is done then?


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> nope! you are not wet around the collar! you are positivly soaked I'd say!





RAINYBOW said:


> Errr no i would take it to the vets  but the rabbits in the CP don't have that luxury and using emotive terms like "rip it apart" is just ignorant.
> 
> You are happier that they suffer long slow protracted deaths then rather than the 15 seconds it would take a dog to despatch it ( a F site quicker than the rangers can too) ???





Devil-Dogz said:


> Far from ignorant he says...
> 
> .....the second part of your post says different


Sticks and stones 

When all arguments fail, resort to name calling. Class.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Humanly PTS springs to mind.
> 
> I work near wooded area, and have lost count of the number of mixi rabbits I have caught and called the RSPCA to PTS.  Worked also to save them, if not too far gone.
> 
> As I said, not wet around the ears.


worked to help save them? How did you do that & where? 

Humanly I take it you mean being caught - stressing it out, handling it - stressing it out before injecting it? The rabbit would be stressed, fearful and confused - not forgetting still being in mega amounts of pain while thats going on.


----------



## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

hawksport said:


> I certainly wouldn't call it sport. The options are.
> 1 Leave it to suffer for a few more days and spread disease and then be torn apart by a fox
> 2 Kill it yourself, which some people couldn't do
> 3 Let a dog tear it apart
> ...


i wish i could do that, i know its the best thing for the poor rabbit but i would be terrified id not do it fast enough and put it through more pain, my terrier would be first there and she is so fast, i dont think the rabbit would know what had happened.


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> worked to help save them? How did you do that & where?
> 
> Humanly I take it you mean being caught - stressing it out, handling it - stressing it out before injecting it? The rabbit would be stressed, fearful and confused.


Not to mention the risk of spreading the disease DD! and perhaps even putting a pet rabbit at risk!


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Humanly PTS springs to mind.
> 
> I work near wooded area, and have lost count of the number of mixi rabbits I have caught and called the RSPCA to PTS.  Worked also to save them, if not too far gone.
> 
> As I said, not wet around the ears.


The RSPCA in your area must have very little to do. I waited at the side of a road for 2 hrs with a cat that had been hit by a car. Between them getting there and looking at it and then going to get the stuff to pts it died.


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

mumof6 said:


> i wish i could do that, i know its the best thing for the poor rabbit but i would be terrified id not do it fast enough and put it through more pain, my terrier would be first there and she is so fast, i dont think the rabbit would know what had happened.


Best thing for it. This is the real world it's not pink or fluffy and doing the right thing isn't always easy.


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> The RSPCA in your area must have very little to do. I waited at the side of a road for 2 hrs with a cat that had been hit by a car. Between them getting there and looking at it and then going to get the stuff to pts it died.


I sat on the kerbside of the Old Bedford Road in Luton with a cat that had been hit by a car! People walking past me were laughing and giving me a wide berth! I asked a couple if they could call a vet or get help! No-one cared! I probably nursed that cat for ten minutes before it died, a guy came out the pub on the corner and sat with me! At least that cat died knowing a little kindness!

And for those who don't know the Old bedford Road is quite a busy road, that cat were a cared for cat! and this was perhaps eight years ago! But I would sooner it have passed on quicker personally!


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> well it is what happens isnt it may as well be factual that is after all what this thread is aiming for.


I dont think the term ripped apart is factual though. The one time Oscar took a rabbit there wasnt a mark on it when he dropped it.



MrDarcy said:


> Sticks and stones
> 
> When all arguments fail, resort to name calling. Class.


I never called you any names, i felt the term used showed ignorance i did not say you were ignorant


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

Nithnell said:


> but on that basis, they'd have been keeping the cat inside forever more?
> 
> Sadly, and i know this will probably make me very unpopular, but had a fox or a dog threatens my livestock or pets, my OH would take his rifle to it. It wouldn't be done lightly, and it's not something we like doing, but my stock comes first. i'm not sure if its the same down south, but farmers are allowed to despatch animals that worry livestock with the exception of badgers which are protected.


I don't see how it would make you very unpopular? I would do the same to protect my pets!! i would have thought a clean shot was much more humane than chasing the said fox until it was out of breath and tearing it apart? I would imagine most animal lovers would agree with that not have a go? :confused1:


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I dont think the term ripped apart is factual though. The one time Oscar took a rabbit there wasnt a mark on it when he dropped it.


Alot die of shock


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I sat on the kerbside of the Old Bedford Road in Luton with a cat that had been hit by a car! People walking past me were laughing and giving me a wide berth! I asked a couple if they could call a vet or get help! No-one cared! I probably nursed that cat for ten minutes before it died, a guy came out the pub on the corner and sat with me! At least that cat died knowing a little kindness!
> 
> And for those who don't know the Old bedford Road is quite a busy road, that cat were a cared for cat! and this was perhaps eight years ago! But I would sooner it have passed on quicker personally!


The thing I still think about today is "should I have helped it on it's way?".
But what can you do it was someones pet


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Alot die of shock


Its not something i am hoping to repeat, it was a total fluke, Oscar even suprised himself i think 

He has put on weight too since his snip so i reckon he would be way too slow now anyway :thumbup:


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Its not something i am hoping to repeat, it was a total fluke, Oscar even suprised himself i think


LOL - Dogs instinct just takes over, it can be a wonderful thing


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> worked to help save them? How did you do that & where?
> 
> Humanly I take it you mean being caught - stressing it out, handling it - stressing it out before injecting it? The rabbit would be stressed, fearful and confused - not forgetting still being in mega amounts of pain while thats going on.


That argument won't wash, pet cats get stressed out going to the vets, but I am sure you would urge owners to take their pet to vets if it was needed. You surely wouldn't argue against a visit to vets, for the reasons you state above? The greater good, and all that?

Cheers geezer, for that pearl of wisdom


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

MrDarcy said:


> That argument won't wash, pet cats get stressed out going to the vets, but I am sure you would urge owners to take their pet to vets if it was needed. You surely wouldn't argue against a visit to vets, for the reasons you state above? The greater good, and all that?
> 
> Cheers geezer, for that pearl of wisdom


there is a vast difference between a owner taking their pet to the vets and a stranger taking a wild animal to the vet!
You may learn something from listening to Devildogz she has worked with wild animals!


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Driving one day I saw a bundle of fur thrown out from the car in front..I pulled up and jumped out to see a young fox with it's rear end completely squashed thrashing about on the road.I grabbed a crowbar out the van and killed it with one blow.
Two motorists jumped out of their cars playing hell with me but backed off when they saw the crowbar in my hand.
That poor creature was in agony and in a helluva mess...I would do the same to any other animal In the same situation.
A broken leg etc.would call for a phone call to a vet...but not the mess that poor sod was in.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> That argument won't wash, pet cats get stressed out going to the vets, but I am sure you would urge owners to take their pet to vets if it was needed. You surely wouldn't argue against a visit to vets, for the reasons you state above? The greater good, and all that?
> 
> Cheers geezer, for that pearl of wisdom


You cant pull that one over on me matey 
wild animals and domestic animals are not the same, domestica animals are use to people in their day to day lives and being handled by them. wild animals are NOT use to people or being handled and in mose cases never should come into contact with a human  anyone that compares domesic and wild animals the same doesnt really understand as far as I see it.

and you didnt answer my question 

Ohh and something else I am far from a 'geezer'.  ALSO are you an ex member??


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Mr Darcey I'm begining to suspect you are an undercover PF mod. Since you arrived everyone else has been in agreement with each other


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> You cant pull that one over on me matey
> wild animals and domestic animals are not the same, domestica animals are use to people in their day to day lives and being handled by them. wild animals are NOT use to people or being handled and in mose cases never should come into contact with a human  anyone that compares domesic and wild animals the same doesnt really understand as far as I see it.
> 
> and you didnt answer my question
> ...


Devil-Dogz sounds like a lads username, are you female?

ALL animals get stressed at the vets, yes more so wild animals. I was just using it as an example.

You guys are harsh, twisting posts and words to suit. I am off to another site, which is more animal friendly. Shish. Done.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Devil-Dogz sounds like a lads username, are you female?
> 
> ALL animals get stressed at the vets, yes more so wild animals. I was just using it as an example.
> 
> You guys are harsh, twisting posts and words to suit. I am off to another site, which is more animal friendly. Shish. Done.


are you going to answer my question or not? I guess not, as you cant whooops


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Mr Darcey I'm begining to suspect you are an undercover PF mod. Since you arrived everyone else has been in agreement with each other


Ha ha! I am sure the members would have been not been so rude to a mod.

At least I took the heat off you mate, eh?  I became the bad guy in peoples eyes on here instead, baffled as to why though? Looks like I won't be logging back on, I am beginning to feel like a poor hunted rabbit lmao.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Ha ha! I am sure the members would have been not been so rude to a mod.
> 
> At least I took the heat off you mate, eh?  I became the bad guy in peoples eyes on here instead, baffled as to why though? Looks like I won't be logging back on, I am beginning to feel like a poor hunted rabbit lmao.


How did you help treat rabbits suffering from mixy? what with and where 
are you an ex member 

Two ever so simple questions :eek6:


----------



## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Ha ha! I am sure the members would have been not been so rude to a mod.
> 
> *At least I took the heat off you mate,* eh?  I became the bad guy in peoples eyes on here instead, baffled as to why though? Looks like I won't be logging back on, I am beginning to feel like a poor hunted rabbit lmao.


i didnt realise the heat was ever on Hawksport :


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> are you going to answer my question or not? I guess not, as you cant whooops


WTF???? What question? Do I have to answer? Am I under arrest?

Is there an ignore button on here?


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> How did you help treat rabbits suffering from mixy? what with and where
> are you an ex member
> 
> Two ever so simple questions :eek6:


No and no!

Now, move on and pester someone else, sheesh!


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> there is a vast difference between a owner taking their pet to the vets and a stranger taking a wild animal to the vet!
> You may learn something from listening to Devildogz she has worked with wild animals!


I am quoting myself! to advise you Mr Darcy that DevilDogz credentials regarding wildlife are NOT lacking!


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> WTF???? What question? Do I have to answer? Am I under arrest?
> 
> Is there an ignore button on here?


If you had read the posts I had posted properly that you quoted, you would have seen them 

Yes there is an ignore button - that it cant answer the questions so ignore the member. Poor me, not only have I been told I am male, I am now going on ignore   LOL


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> No and no!
> 
> Now, move on and pester someone else, sheesh!


what do you mean no and no, you said you had help treat rabbits with mixy.. WHERE and HOW did you do this. No is not an answer


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

MrDarcy said:


> Devil-Dogz sounds like a lads username, are you female?
> 
> ALL animals get stressed at the vets, yes more so wild animals. I was just using it as an example.
> 
> You guys are harsh, twisting posts and words to suit. I am off to another site, which is more animal friendly. Shish. Done.


Turn you light off when you go to your other site!! don't want ot waste the leccy!


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Play nicely girls...


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Turn you light off when you go to your other site!! don't want ot waster the leccy!


Now that was funny!  Like it!


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy I just told you I was female. So dont leave me rep calling me a 'geezer' telling me what to do. who do you think you are 

If you can back up what you are saying it may be better if you dont post saying you have treated mixy affect rabbits before


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

why the ganging up here lol


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> why the ganging up here lol


I was beginning to think I was just being paraniod, Glad it ain't just the voices messing wi ma head!


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> why the ganging up here lol


I dont see no ganging up - although I see, one member insulting.

Do you know their an ex member to


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

I bid you all good night. Off to watch a bit of x hamster stuff, for light relief!
Phew, you guys are hard work.:arf:


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Good night Mr Darcey been a pleasure talking to you


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

MrDarcy said:


> I bid you all good night. Off to watch a bit of x hamster stuff, for light relief!
> Phew, you guys are hard work.:arf:


We're a good bunch! Nowt wrong with being passionate in our beliefs. We all love our animals! That is plain to see! :thumbup:


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> I bid you all good night. Off to watch a bit of x hamster stuff, for light relief!
> Phew, you guys are hard work.:arf:


still no answers to the animals you have helped? didnt think I would get them.


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> I dont see no ganging up - although I see, one member insulting.
> 
> Do you know their an ex member to


Lmao I thought you were a bloke cos of your username (and no pic). Hardly insulting, just guess work and you corrected me. Ex member? You are the second person to say that tonight, what are you guys on?


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Good night Mr Darcey been a pleasure talking to you


Thank you. We do not share the same view, but didn't insult each other. Thats the way it is supposed to be, Cheers and night.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Lmao I thought you were a bloke cos of your username (and no pic). Hardly insulting, just guess work and you corrected me. Ex member? You are the second person to say that tonight, what are you guys on?


Ohh I know you are an ex member   I dont need to you to 'tell' me you are!
Im getting good at finding 'you' out aint I   
I dont have a picture you are right, and if I did it would be of my pets, not me. Its a pet forum.
Better to have no picture than a 'fake' one ay!


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> *Ohh I know you are an ex member *  I dont need to you to 'tell' me you are!
> Im getting good at finding 'you' out aint I
> I dont have a picture you are right, and if I did it would be of my pets, not me. Its a pet forum.
> Better to have no picture than a 'fake' one ay!


who is it who is it lol................ im so nosey


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Ohh I know you are an ex member   I dont need to you to 'tell' me you are!
> Im getting good at finding 'you' out aint I
> I dont have a picture you are right, and if I did it would be of my pets, not me. Its a pet forum.
> Better to have no picture than a 'fake' one ay!


:confused1: I dont see them as an ex member, must have missed that, just seemed odd that they were been cornered I guess :arf:


----------



## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> who is it who is it lol................ im so nosey


so am i lol


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Ohh I know you are an ex member   I dont need to you to 'tell' me you are!
> Im getting good at finding 'you' out aint I
> I dont have a picture you are right, and if I did it would be of my pets, not me. Its a pet forum.
> Better to have no picture than a 'fake' one ay!


My pic is of Damien Lewis, my hero. Again, are you the forum police? I don't know who you think I am, but you are wrong.

And my work history is none of your business. As I said, finally you are now going on ignore.

I am sure admin can check that I haven't ever been a member on here!


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

ohh come on you guys letting the team down it aint that hard to guess? amount of people I have had pm'ing to ask LOL. shame on you all!


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

It is like tennis tonight -from this thread to the religious one, back again blah blah blah


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> ohh come on you guys letting the team down it aint that hard to guess? amount of people I have had pm'ing to ask LOL. shame on you all!


who is it DD?


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> ohh come on you guys letting the team down it aint that hard to guess? amount of people I have had pm'ing to ask LOL. shame on you all!


just curious if ya know cos i dont  :lol:


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> My pic is of Damien Lewis, my hero. Again, are you the forum police? I don't know who you think I am, but you are wrong.
> 
> And my work history is none of your business. As I said, finally you are now going on ignore.


Forum police - defo not - Just I know who you are, and you know I know 
none of my business dont post it on the forum then? LOL Unless it was in your vet nursing days  Its fine put me on ignore, really - never been keen on 'liers'/false people.


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> :confused1: I dont see them as an ex member, must have missed that, just seemed odd that they were been cornered I guess :arf:


You haven't missed much, and yeah they are cornering me. Cos they think I am someone else?


----------



## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> ohh come on you guys letting the team down it aint that hard to guess? amount of people I have had pm'ing to ask LOL. shame on you all!


i guessed it 

feel all clever now :lol: :lol:


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

MrDarcy said:


> You haven't missed much, and yeah they are cornering me. Cos they think I am someone else?


weird :confused1:


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> You haven't missed much, and yeah they are cornering me. Cos they think I am someone else?


I dont think any more. I know.


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

MrDarcy said:


> You haven't missed much, and yeah they are cornering me. Cos they think I am someone else?


Lord Lucan...come out come out wherever you are...


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Forum police - defo not - Just I know who you are, and you know I know
> none of my business dont post it on the forum then? LOL Unless it was in your vet nursing days  Its fine put me on ignore, really - never been keen on 'liers'/false people.


Not so sure on this one DD! guess we WERE thinking along the same lines!!
but i'd have to say! NO! unless of course you know better columbo!


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

mumof6 said:


> i guessed it
> 
> feel all clever now :lol: :lol:


I still aint guessed    give us another clue


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Not so sure on this one DD! guess we WERE thinking along the same lines!!
> but i'd have to say! NO! unless of course you know better columbo!


Dont I always know better. Think about it tis her.


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

mumof6 said:


> i guessed it
> 
> feel all clever now :lol: :lol:


Realy? Admin will sort this out, I am sure. I ain't no ex member.


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Dont I always know better. Think about it tis her.


well whoever it is sure loves animals thats something to be proud of, I for one think there AOK :thumbup: :lol:


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Dont I always know better. Think about it tis her.


Nah!!! don't think so somehow!!


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> I still aint guessed    give us another clue


two words one sylable, sounds like,,,,,,,LOL :lol::lol: seriously though lots of members who are on here now have created multiple accounts


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Realy? Admin will sort this out, I am sure. I ain't no ex member.


I am sure they will


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> two words one sylable, sounds like,,,,,,,LOL :lol::lol: seriously though lots of members who are on here now have created multiple accounts


Havent seen you about since I came back Suzy  - and really? sad people.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> well whoever it is sure loves animals thats something to be proud of, I for one think there AOK :thumbup: :lol:


Sure is somethig to be proud of


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Waterlily said:


> well whoever it is sure loves animals thats something to be proud of, I for one think there AOK :thumbup: :lol:


*It's not*







*is it?*


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Havent seen you about since I came back Suzy  - and really? sad people.


Ive been here but not come across ya on any threads  oh aye is sad but true me thinks but not sure about Mr Darcy wish u would spill the beans


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> well whoever it is sure loves animals thats something to be proud of, I for one think there AOK :thumbup: :lol:


Many thanks to you and Hawksport! :thumbup: Now gez your number? Think we would get on like a house on fire. :thumbup:


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> well whoever it is sure loves animals thats something to be proud of, I for one think there AOK :thumbup: :lol:


I think we all do, some are just more realistic and practical


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> two words one sylable, sounds like,,,,,,,LOL :lol::lol: seriously though lots of members who are on here now have created multiple accounts


Ive got it lol, its read back and it 'looks' to me like DD is right lol
Im def not 100%

If it is the person in question they have changed there IP address numberus times in the past


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> Many thanks to you and Hawksport! :thumbup: Now gez your number? Think we would get on like a house on fire. :thumbup:


We can have a day out hawking :thumbup:


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

poohdog said:


> *It's not*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats ma wife, how did you find that pic?


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> Ive got it lol, its read back and it 'looks' to me like DD is right lol
> 
> If it is the person in question they have changed there IP address numberus times in the past


More times then we change our knickers Claire:scared:


----------



## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> We can have a day out hawking :thumbup:


Lmao, I will pass. But thanks for the gesture, mate.


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

MrDarcy said:


> Many thanks to you and Hawksport! :thumbup: Now gez your number? Think we would get on like a house on fire. :thumbup:


aw yeah we would i think  :lol:


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> More times then we change our knickers Claire:scared:


hahahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> More times then we change our knickers Claire:scared:


I knew something on this thread stunk


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> Ive got it lol, its read back and it 'looks' to me like DD is right lol
> Im def not 100%
> 
> If it is the person in question they have changed there IP address numberus times in the past


when aint I right   
I am 100% ... Over 100% Little birdies tell me things, should invest in some 
Yes IP's changed often.


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

well they should be left alone anyway they havent done shitt wrong here


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

hawksport said:


> I knew something on this thread stunk


PMSL, that made some tea come down my nose :lol: :lol:


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> well they should be left alone anyway they havent done shitt wrong here


nothing wrong indeed - just a shame they cant admit who they are.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

besides like us lot can talk hahaha


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> well they should be left alone anyway they havent done shitt wrong here


Have to agree many have been guilty of it! in fact many have been guilty of a lot of stuff on here and still remain so it dont bother me lol


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> besides like us lot can talk hahaha


well actually I can - when I was banned I came back after seeing a CC thread, a mod pm'ed and asked if it was me I said yep and had myself banned again   
I've never been dis honest with other accounts, dont need to be


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> when aint I right
> I am 100% ... Over 100% Little birdies tell me things, should invest in some
> Yes IP's changed often.


Detective DD LOL, I agree the previous post do look like the person in question


Waterlily said:


> well they should be left alone anyway they havent done shitt wrong here


I think people wont like it if it is indeed the person people think it is due to the fact that person made a numberous profile up and abused several members. If I remember right they even pretended to be a child with cancer

dont bother me tbh just think it may cause some upset amongst others


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> Detective DD LOL, I agree the previous post do look like the person in question
> 
> I think people wont like it if it is indeed the person people think it is due to the fact that person made a numberoys profile up and abused several members.* If I remember right they even pretended to be a child with cancer*


oh yeah, i forgot about that :frown:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> Detective DD LOL, I agree the previous post do look like the person in question
> 
> I think people wont like it if it is indeed the person people think it is due to the fact that person made a numberoys profile up and abused several members. If I remember right they even pretended to be a child with cancer


So tell us then?? name and shame


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> well actually I can - when I was banned I came back after seeing a CC thread, a mod pm'ed and asked if it was me I said yep and had myself banned again
> I've never been dis honest with other accounts, dont need to be


yeah agree mate hell we all **** up oops was sposed to quote suzy 


ClaireLouise said:


> Detective DD LOL, I agree the previous post do look like the person in question
> 
> I think people wont like it if it is indeed the person people think it is due to the fact that person made a numberoys profile up and abused several members. If I remember right they even pretended to be a child with cancer


peeps need to suck it up hell its been ages get a life :lol: umm not you peeps in general


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## cool-jim (Dec 16, 2010)

I thought we were talking Fluffy Foxes, not playing guess who.

Does he have a moustache? Does he have Blonde hair? :lol::lol::lol:


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)




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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Waterlily said:


>


OMG - She doesnt even put her hand in the packet just clicks her fingers


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> OMG - She doesnt even put her hand in the packet just clicks her fingers


hahaha that wasnt the point  :lol:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Waterlily said:


>


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::thumbup:


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> hahaha that wasnt the point  :lol:


what you actually mean there was a point to you posting it! :lol:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Waterlily said:


>


LOL :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> what you actually mean there was a point to you posting it! :lol:


yeah :thumbup:









getting the drift :confused1: :lol:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> yeah :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


whats with all the popcorn!!!???!!!
Im on a shocking diet and BLOODY STARVING :frown:   bad times


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> yeah :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your hungry got it


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Your hungry got it


yeah thats it :thumbup: :lol:


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## cool-jim (Dec 16, 2010)

I'll leave you lot to it then cos I'm a noob so I'm completely clueless. And besides I've got a First Aid course in the morning.

G'night.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

So, back to foxes and other dumb animals Amethyst if you are going to imply I have said some thing have you at least got the decency to show where I said it or admit I didn't say it. Or are you going to continue to pretend you haven't seen this.
If it's your opinion that this vet isn't fit to practise because he killed a wild animal by a legal method, what is your opinion of an organisation that kills wild animals by illegal methods.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Going back to myxi rabbits, I've seen people walk past them before, when walking my dogs, Tau's a b*gga for fetching them back to me (myxi rabbits that is). If they're that easy to see/catch, they're usually way past any help, so I put them out of their misery, because I think it's far crueller to leave them to suffer. And yet people have sometimes walked past them and left them to suffer and die slowly.  At the very least, if you can't do the deed yourself, I'd have hoped any one who cares for animals would try and get somebody to help them, not just ignore them. That's not point at anyone on here btw, as going by the posts, most members would phone *someone* or try to despatch it somehow. 

I've put a fair few animals out of their misery that have been injured, the riskiest one was a black mamba, with it's back broken on a dirt road in Namibia. We had to drive over it a few times, it wasn't pretty, but it was the safest way to try and put it out of it's suffering.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

People have some funny values. Last summer I had a bird bowed out on the lawn eating a 1/4 rabbit. The neighbour stuck her head over the fence and the conversation went
Your birds eating a rabbit
and
Well it's disgusting
Er Julie your kids are sat there eating a dead pig and a dead cow and your dog is probably eating horse. Goodbye


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

hawksport said:


> People have some funny values. Last summer I had a bird bowed out on the lawn eating a 1/4 rabbit. The neighbour stuck her head over the fence and the conversation went
> Your birds eating a rabbit
> and
> Well it's disgusting
> Er Julie your kids are sat there eating a dead pig and a dead cow and your dog is probably eating horse. Goodbye


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

mumof6 said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:


She's a crazy woman. Another day last summer theres a knock at the door.
Can I have a word?
Yep what's up?
Your cat's out in the rain
No, the cat is laying on the window sill out of the rain and if she wants to come in the window is open. Are they your kids playing in the street with no coats on? Goodbye


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

hawksport said:


> People have some funny values. Last summer I had a bird bowed out on the lawn eating a 1/4 rabbit. The neighbour stuck her head over the fence and the conversation went
> Your birds eating a rabbit
> and
> Well it's disgusting
> Er Julie your kids are sat there eating a dead pig and a dead cow and your dog is probably eating horse. Goodbye


I find that too, well, fortunately I don't have Julie as a neighbour, but about the funny values thing, not everyone, just a lot.

I know my Mum won't pluck and draw game birds because she doesn't like the thought of it, yet she'll have them if I do it for her. She won't eat rabbit either, but that's more because of myxi, which was rife when she was a little girl, so a lot of people her generation think it's diseased meat. I think it's lovely, a very delicate flavour.


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Going back to myxi rabbits, I've seen people walk past them before, when walking my dogs, Tau's a b*gga for fetching them back to me (myxi rabbits that is). If they're that easy to see/catch, they're usually way past any help, so I put them out of their misery, because I think it's far crueller to leave them to suffer. And yet people have sometimes walked past them and left them to suffer and die slowly.  At the very least, if you can't do the deed yourself, I'd have hoped any one who cares for animals would try and get somebody to help them, not just ignore them. That's not point at anyone on here btw, as going by the posts, most members would phone *someone* or try to despatch it somehow.
> 
> I've put a fair few animals out of their misery that have been injured, the riskiest one was a black mamba, with it's back broken on a dirt road in Namibia. We had to drive over it a few times, it wasn't pretty, but it was the safest way to try and put it out of it's suffering.


I know your intentions came from a good place (stop its suffering), but I find this a horrific action to take. A bullet in the head, fair enough (though in Namibia options limited to put this poor thing out of its mysery) but to run over the poor thing several times?

If that was a human being in the road, would you have done the same thing? Why is it okay to do that to animals?

Should we just set our pet dogs on all the sick, dying old people who are suffering of cancer? Well we would be humanely putting them out of their pain, by what you guys are saying. Or maybe if we come across an old man knocked down, we can either run over him a few times to "finish him off" and end his suffering, or if we have a couple of dogs nearby, set them on him.

Do you see where I am heading?


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> People have some funny values. Last summer I had a bird bowed out on the lawn eating a 1/4 rabbit. The neighbour stuck her head over the fence and the conversation went
> Your birds eating a rabbit
> and
> Well it's disgusting
> Er Julie your kids are sat there eating a dead pig and a dead cow and your dog is probably eating horse. Goodbye


I get your point exactly, its called hypocrisy!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> I know your intentions came from a good place (stop its suffering), but I find this a horrific action to take. A bullet in the head, fair enough (though in Namibia options limited to put this poor thing out of its mysery) but to run over the poor thing several times?
> 
> If that was a human being in the road, would you have done the same thing? Why is it okay to do that to animals?
> 
> ...


Would you like to tell us what you would of done with a large poisoness snake out in the middle of nowhere. It's easy to critisise others, giving a better alternative isn't quite so easy.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

hawksport said:


> Would you like to tell us what you would of done with a large poisoness snake out in the middle of nowhere. It's easy to critisise others, giving a better alternative isn't quite so easy.


Mr Darcy would have scooped it up and took it to the nearest vets.. several hundred miles away and they would have lamped it on the head.. Im sure..

Read through this this morning and it seems some people cant answer questions still..

And who is Mr Darcy anyway:lol:


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> Would you like to tell us what you would of done with a large poisoness snake out in the middle of nowhere. It's easy to critisise others, giving a better alternative isn't quite so easy.


I agree with the point you are making, but I didn't say I had a wonderous alternative.  I even acknowledged the fact it would have been even more difficult to do the right thing in Namibia.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Mr Darcy would have scooped it up and took it to the nearest vets.. several hundred miles away and they would have lamped it on the head.. Im sure..
> 
> Read through this this morning and it seems some people cant answer questions still..
> 
> *And who is Mr Darcy anyway*:lol:


I have already apologised to him for been wrong, and assuming he was a diff member, but to be fair as well noodle I would have tried a vet, just couldnt do it myself


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> I have already apologised to him for been wrong, and assuming he was a diff member, but to be fair as well noodle I would have tried a vet, just couldnt do it myself


Well I haven't the foggiest who he is.. :lol: Or She.. :lol:

But ya might struggle to find a vet..


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Well I haven't the foggiest who he is.. :lol: Or She.. :lol:
> 
> But ya might struggle to find a vet..


well yeah and would be distressed as hell  :lol:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

The fox is dead... This pup isn't.. who can offer some help... anyone??

Log in | Facebook

Well I haven't the have the room.. I still have bobby here.. if I didn't I would have said irl take it.. 5 months old poor thing.. And tomorrow afternoon if pts it will just be another statistic..


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Mr Darcy would have scooped it up and took it to the nearest vets.. several hundred miles away and they would have lamped it on the head.. Im sure..
> 
> Read through this this morning and it seems some people cant answer questions still..
> 
> And who is Mr Darcy anyway:lol:


To be fair to Mr Darcey he did answer my questions and he did come to the conclusion that hunting a wild animal can be more ethical than buying farmed meat or as he put it the lesser of two evils.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

hawksport said:


> To be fair to Mr Darcey he did answer my questions and he did come to the conclusion that hunting a wild animal can be more ethical than buying farmed meat or as he put it the lesser of two evils.


:lol: hawksport you know Im not on about him.. Mr Darcy... I aint on about you.. x


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> :lol: hawksport you know Im not on about him.. Mr Darcy... I aint on about you.. x


With you now. Just had a load of teenagers distracting me


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

hawksport said:


> To be fair to Mr Darcey he did answer my questions and he did come to the conclusion that hunting a wild animal can be more ethical than buying farmed meat or as he put it the lesser of two evils.


Cheers mate  Though, I wouldn't say fox hunting is the lesser of two evils. A long drawn out chase and fear, then ripped apart. Context is a wonderful thing.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

hawksport said:


> With you now. Just had a load of teenagers distracting me


OOOOOO I have 30 mins till the peace is broken.. had a poo sleep though.. lol so they best be good tonight..


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## cat001 (Apr 12, 2008)

I saw the report on tv and agree with the bloke in that it's evolution in progress.

Usually foxes are shy because they're attempting to balance the risk of predation with the risk of starvation (optimality theory). Boldness would put the animal at greater risk of predation, shyness is therefore the preffered trait in normal circumstances. But because of the lack of predators in urban areas, and of increased food availability, boldness becomes the preffered trait. Those bold enough to encrouch further on human habitations are more successful than shyer individuals so are more likely to pass on their genes and produce bold offspring. These bolder individuals _may_ be more apt to try novel prey such as cats but that's pure speculation. What we see here is natural selection at work! This Parallels an interesting study concerning the reintroduction of Kit foxes were bolder individuals had an increased mortality rate shyer individuals being the more successful. 
http://compassionateconservation.org/Presentation - Sam Bremner-Harrison.pdf

Isn't Behavioual and Evolutionary Ecology interesting! :thumbup:


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

cat001 said:


> I saw the report on tv and agree with the bloke in that it's evolution in progress.
> 
> Usually foxes are shy because they're attempting to balance the risk of predation with the risk of starvation (optimality theory). Boldness would put the animal at greater risk of predation, shyness is therefore the preffered trait in normal circumstances. But because of the lack of predators in urban areas, and of increased food availability, boldness becomes the preffered trait. Those bold enough to encrouch further on human habitations are more successful than shyer individuals so are more likely to pass on their genes and produce bold offspring. These bolder individuals _may_ be more apt to try novel prey such as cats but that's pure speculation. What we see here is natural selection at work! This Parallels an interesting study concerning the reintroduction of Kit foxes were bolder individuals had an increased mortality rate shyer individuals being the more successful.
> http://compassionateconservation.org/Presentation - Sam Bremner-Harrison.pdf
> ...


Very interesting indeed.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

My friends live in bear country black and grizzly, after 6 years they still haven't had to shoot a bear they have fired into the air to scare a couple but not had to shoot one yet. The bloke he is a hunter but he hunts what they will use for meat (not bear) and because he is near a reserve he doesn't hunt in his area. You also have to apply for a permit for what it is your hunting as they only sell so many tags each year, so you go into a draw.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

MrDarcy said:


> I know your intentions came from a good place (stop its suffering), but I find this a horrific action to take. A bullet in the head, fair enough (though in Namibia options limited to put this poor thing out of its mysery) but to run over the poor thing several times?
> 
> If that was a human being in the road, would you have done the same thing? Why is it okay to do that to animals?
> 
> ...


We were next to the Waterberg Plateau Park, b*gga all for miles, the snake was in agony and writhing around, there was no way to even try and get hold of it. We made sure it was most certainly dead before we drove off. At least we didn't just drive off and leave the poor thing to suffer possibly for days!! Grrrrrrr


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Just had a call from a neighbour to say he saw a giant fox yesterday crossing my garden and that I might want to keep my (small) cat in for a while  Difficult. We do get them locally, so are used to them but not this size. There are also 13 cats in the immediate area (all outdoor cats), so it's going to be quite a worry. I'll start reading this long thread properly to see if there are any tips about natural deterents...


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Kiwi said:


> Just had a call from a neighbour to say he saw a giant fox yesterday crossing my garden and that I might want to keep my (small) cat in for a while  Difficult. We do get them locally, so are used to them but not this size. There are also 13 cats in the immediate area (all outdoor cats), so it's going to be quite a worry. I'll start reading this long thread properly to see if there are any tips about natural deterents...


No, not really, any I've heard are a bit of a myth, like telling your OH to go pee outdoors, which, if you think about it, urban foxes are used to the smell of man. Llamas are another one that are supposed to deter foxes, but I think that's a bit of a 'red herring' and really not practical to even give it a go. You'd be better off keeping your cats indoors, and making sure there's nothing for the foxes to eat; if you're putting out food for the birds, make sure that's not in reach.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> telling your OH to go pee outdoors...Llamas are another one...


:lol: Don't have either available at the mo, so will stick keeping her in at night. Tks!


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> No, not really, any I've heard are a bit of a myth, like telling your OH to go pee outdoors, which, if you think about it, urban foxes are used to the smell of man. Llamas are another one that are supposed to deter foxes, but I think that's a bit of a 'red herring' and really not practical to even give it a go. You'd be better off keeping your cats indoors, and making sure there's nothing for the foxes to eat; if you're putting out food for the birds, make sure that's not in reach.


Big cat pee! lion or tiger!:thumbup::thumbup:


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Kiwi said:


> Just had a call from a neighbour to say he saw a giant fox yesterday crossing my garden and that I might want to keep my (small) cat in for a while  Difficult. We do get them locally, so are used to them but not this size. There are also 13 cats in the immediate area (all outdoor cats), so it's going to be quite a worry. I'll start reading this long thread properly to see if there are any tips about natural deterents...


my tip is keep them in:thumbup:


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Can I borrow one of your sibes for a couple of days?? :arf::lol:


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## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

I'll probably sound like a big tree hugger here but what I don't get is when people are saying 'and they come into our towns and cities' but when the hell did they become 'ours' as far as I'm concerned we've displaced thousands upon thousands of wild animals building houses ect. and then they get killed for hunting like they naturally do? How on earth do we expect a fox to know a pet cat from , say a rabbit .... 

People and their ignorance

(Btw not trying to take a shot at anyone , sorry if you were offended by my post, i just have a strong opinion)

And also , if my mum tried to get me to take a photo next to a dead animal I would have some choice words for her ....


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

SophieCyde said:


> I'll probably sound like a big tree hugger here but what I don't get is when people are saying 'and they come into our townsand cities' but when the hell id they become 'ours' as far as I'm concerned we've displaced thousands upon thousands of wild animals building houses ect. and then they get killed for hunting like they naturally do? How on earth do we epect a fox to know a pet cat from , say a rabbit ....
> 
> People and their ignorance
> 
> ...


Again, couldn't agree with you more..... with EVERYTHING you say! :thumbup:


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Kiwi said:


> Can I borrow one of your sibes for a couple of days?? :arf::lol:


haha wot for the cats?:devil:


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> haha wot for the cats?:devil:


The poster doesn't know Sibs could have a cat for lunch


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MrDarcy said:


> The poster doesn't know Sibs could have a cat for lunch




one of my big fears is that someday a cat manages to get in my garden


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## MrDarcy (Jan 4, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> one of my big fears is that someday a cat manages to get in my garden


I know.... 

Found it funny when someone thought a Husky, would be the answer to guard their cat lmao. HELL NO!


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Sorry Mr Darcy, asking to borrow the sibes was a joke with Noushka relating to another thread, where I said I'd love a sibe and would let it off-lead, allowing it to kill small animals (long story - don't ask! Just ignore it) I know what a sibe could do  Incidentally, I was appalled that they killed the fox in this way


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> one of my big fears is that someday a cat manages to get in my garden


My weimys guard my cat Noush


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> one of my big fears is that someday a cat manages to get in my garden


One of my fears too, if a cat was in my garden it would have been dinner. Cassie has had hold of one on my parents street, lucky we were all there to convince her to let go.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MrDarcy said:


> I know....
> 
> Found it funny when someone thought a Husky, would be the answer to guard their cat lmao. HELL NO!





Kiwi said:


> Sorry Mr Darcy, asking to borrow the sibes was a joke with Noushka relating to another thread, where I said I'd love a sibe and would let it off-lead, allowing it to kill small animals (long story - don't ask! Just ignore it) I know what a sibe could do  Incidentally, I was appalled that they killed the fox in this way


its okay chaps no harm done and we're all on the foxes side arnt we



DoubleTrouble said:


> My weimys guard my cat Noush


2 bodyguards!! cant be bad:thumbup:


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