# Irresponsible owner



## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I walk Pippa in an enclosed football field. 

Today I was walking her in the field, about 15 - 20 meters from the gate, when a lady with a clearly DINOS dog entered. Obviously Pippa went to investigate and got the dog riled up, and it was growling and lunging at her. If this was just a wood walk or similar, I would understand - 50/50 blame, but she chose to enter the field, as I was clearly walking to the gate! Pippa was clearly off her lead too. It would have taken her an extra 20 seconds to wait at the gate for me to exit, but no. Her dog was clearly stressed, as was I! 
Then when I left, her dog did a poo, and she didn't pick it up! Irresponsible woman!

I have my own policy that, I don't open the gate if there are other dogs close by, that could possible escape onto a busy road.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Irresponsible owner, yes - but not sure it was the woman!  Her dog was on a lead, yours wasn't and went over uninvited.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

why did you not put pippa on the lead as you were approaching the gate? or when you seen another dog onlead? I know whenever I see another dog onlead I always put sophie back on hers, and if I was about to exit somewhere like that she would be on her lead before the gate aswell because someone could easily come and open it, without thinking or noticing my dog. also how do you know she didn't pick up you were leaving did you stop outside the gate to watch her?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Irresponsible owner, yes - but not sure it was the woman!  Her dog was on a lead, yours wasn't and went over uninvited.


^^^^^ this especially if the ladies dog was on a lead

you need to work on your recall


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

I'd say you were both bad.

You for letting your dog run over to an on leash dog without permission and her for not picking up.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

If I had a dog in need of space, I would certainly check to see if I was about to walk on to a field where another dog was loose off lead, and wait to give them a chance to recall it instead of walking in there, and risking the other dog coming over. No-one has a perfect recall, and if your dog doesn't like other dogs coming over, then surely you would check first, and wait if necessary. I think the OP has agreed they were partly to blame, but the whole situation could have been avoided in the first place.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I can see this from both POV. If I was entering with my DINOS dog and saw somebody approaching the gate ready to exit and their dog was off, I would wait until they had left, or shouted out "are you coming this way?", I think it was a tad silly of the woman in this case.

However, I dont like the phrase "*obviously* Pippa went to investigate" as it insinuates that she had some kind of green light to go over and that you had little control over that, or that you at least didnt see a problem.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Leanne77 said:


> I can see this from both POV. If I was entering with my DINOS dog and saw somebody approaching the gate ready to exit and their dog was off, I would wait until they had left, or shouted out "are you coming this way?", I think it was a tad silly of the woman in this case.
> 
> However, I dont like the phrase "*obviously* Pippa went to investigate" as it insinuates that she had some kind of green light to go over and that you had little control over that, or that you at least didnt see a problem.


Agree completely.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

dandogman said:


> Today I was walking her in the field, about 15 - 20 meters from the gate, *when a lady with a clearly DINOS dog entered. Obviously Pippa went to investigate and got the dog riled up, and it was growling and lunging at her.*


Why do you think it's "obvious" that Pippa would go investigate another dog?
Why did you allow your dog to go investigate a dog who was "clearly" a DINO?
Why did you not recall your dog when you saw the dog was riled up?

You're lucky your dog didn't get a boot in the bum or worse from the upset dog.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Why should etiquette change depending on whether you're in an enclosed field, wood, beach or whatever?  Or do you mean it would have been different because there was nowhere she could have waited?

Personally I think both were at fault here to be honest. I wouldn't enter a field with a dog who needed space while someone else was coming off it but at the same time Pippa shouldn't have gone up to the leash dog in the first place.


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## sbonnett76 (Apr 6, 2010)

Leanne77 said:


> I can see this from both POV. If I was entering with my DINOS dog and saw somebody approaching the gate ready to exit and their dog was off, I would wait until they had left, or shouted out "are you coming this way?", I think it was a tad silly of the woman in this case.
> 
> However, I dont like the phrase "*obviously* Pippa went to investigate" as it insinuates that she had some kind of green light to go over and that you had little control over that, or that you at least didnt see a problem.


I agree. As an owner of a dog who has mixed reactions when an off lead dog approaches when she is on the lead, I would say it was your responsibility to stop your dog from invading the restricted space of the other dog. The lady had full control of her dog and was entering a public place.

However, it would have been thoughtful for the owner to ask where you were heading and wait a few seconds and not picking up poo is unacceptable.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

In my opinion 15-20 metres is far away enough for another dog not to have a need to come near me.
If waiting outside the gate meant the other dog might have had to pass by closer to me, then I would have gone into the field and kept my distance.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

You let your dog go up to an already riled dog (your words) and call the other dog owner irresponsible.


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

She has a right to enter the field, her dog was on lead and under control. You should be able to call your dog back no matter what, i would work on re-call to ensure you can get your dog back no matter the circumstance. It would have been polite for the woman to wait whilst you got dog on lead etc but her dog was on lead and may have thought you would be able to call your dog back and keep under control.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

dandogman said:


> I walk Pippa in an enclosed football field.
> 
> Today I was walking her in the field, about 15 - 20 meters from the gate, when a lady with a clearly DINOS dog entered. Obviously Pippa went to investigate and got the dog riled up, and it was growling and lunging at her. If this was just a wood walk or similar, I would understand - 50/50 blame, but she chose to enter the field, as I was clearly walking to the gate! Pippa was clearly off her lead too. It would have taken her an extra 20 seconds to wait at the gate for me to exit, but no. Her dog was clearly stressed, as was I!
> Then when I left, her dog did a poo, and she didn't pick it up! Irresponsible woman!
> ...


Tell me please what does DINOS stand for?


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm aware of many dogs that are reactive on lead but completely fine and friendly when offlead. Have you considered that the dog may not have reacted at all if it had been allowed to meet on an even footing, but by letting Pippa approach the gate before the woman had a chance to get into the field and allow their dog offlead you were the owner that was teh cause of the issue.

Incidentally how did Pippa approach?


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

northnsouth said:


> Tell me please what does DINOS stand for?


Dog in need of Space

Dan I sometimes think you come and post these threads to deliberately cause friction on the forum


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

metaldog said:


> Dog in need of Space


Thank you. Can follow now


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I can see both sides here. I often use an enclosed field to walk Kilo and Rudi. There are lots of other dogs that are walked there and about 90% of owners believe that 'offlead fields' means just that regardless of the temperament and behaviour of their dogs. If I don't know the dogs there, there is a large group playing or there is a dog / are dogs who I would otherwise rather avoid I tend to either go across the road into an 'onlead' field and bide my time or go to the gate and talk to the owners. In an ideal world, I'd be able to walk in with Kilo or Rudi onlead and feel fine that we'd not be approached, but I always assume that that will not happen. 

So - should Pippa have run up? No. Should the woman perhaps have driven defensively and talked to you first? Probably although she shouldn't have had to do so.

No excuse for not picking up though.


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## lipsthefish (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't understand your logic in this one op 

A woman entered a public place with her on-lead dog, you recognised that her dog was in need of space yet you allowed your off-lead dog to approach, I can't possibly see how the woman is the irresponsible one


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

SixStar said:


> Irresponsible owner, yes - but not sure it was the woman!  Her dog was on a lead, yours wasn't and went over uninvited.


Sorry but have to agree here. I walk Flynn on a lead and the only reason he was attacked a few months ago was because another owner had his dog off lead. Not Flynns fault but entirely the fault of the other owner, we can do no more than keep our DINO's on leads, they don't have the pleasure your dog has with a good old run so bear in mind a DINO's life may not be as fulfilled as your dogs is.

Consider yourself lucky that you don't have a DINO's dog because it's heartbreaking watching others have off lead fun while yours is destined to on lead exercise for it's entire life! 

ETA - If you knew immediately it was a DINO's dog why would you let yours run up to it - poor woman I say, bet had she been a man she may have got a little more respect as would her dog!


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## Labrador Laura (Sep 12, 2010)

I wouldn't say Mylo is a DINO but i don't like other dogs approaching us whilst he's on the lead, he's intact and becomes a target with other males so i always have him under control no matter what breed,size or gender. I HATE it when other people allow their dog to come running over when they've had plenty of time to get them under control.

And for the sake of Pippa i wouldn't allow her to go running up to any dog onlead, as a owner your there to keep her safe. I know a woman who allowed her dog to go up to any dog, he's been attacked that many times he's now on the lead at all times unless it's safe to let him off as he doesn't like other dogs.

I can see your point, but the woman had her dog under control and if anything did happen it would be you in the wrong.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

You know what though? I don't care if the dog is a DINO or not. None of mine are, and I can assure you that if some dog came running up to any of them I would shoo the dog away and not allow any interactions. Yes, I'm *that* owner. 
Sorry, but if I don't know you or your dog, our dogs will not be interacting.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm failing to understand the logic here, as an owner of a dog in need of space, you KNOW your dog would not want to interact with another dog. You approach an enclosed space which has a gate to prevent dogs coming up to your dog, you see a dog, with owner close by, so you assume that owner has 100% recall and enter that space because you are in the right? Blimey, there are a lot of perfect dog owners out there.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Agree with what's been said, if Pippa would have approached Rogue (& many other dogs) she would have got the same reaction, why shouldn't the woman walk her dog in that field if it's a public field?

ETA: I'm with you on the not picking up the poo mind you


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

dandogman said:


> I walk Pippa in an enclosed football field.
> 
> Today I was walking her in the field, about 15 - 20 meters from the gate, when a lady with a *clearly DINOS dog* entered. Obviously Pippa went to investigate and got the dog riled up, and it was growling and lunging at her. If this was just a wood walk or similar, I would understand - 50/50 blame, but she chose to enter the field, as I was clearly walking to the gate! Pippa was clearly off her lead too. It would have taken her an extra 20 seconds to wait at the gate for me to exit, but no. Her dog was clearly stressed, as was I!
> Then when I left, her dog did a poo, and she didn't pick it up! Irresponsible woman!
> ...


How was it a clearly DINO dog? If you could see at 15-20 metres then the correct policy is to call your dog back. It seems to me that your dog caused that dog to growl and lunge as it was off lead. Maybe, like my dog, it's only upset on lead and is fine off lead with good recall too?

And logically at this distance she would have had to wait for more that 20 second unless you are superfast!

As for the poop, yes wrong but maybe she had run out? Did you ask?

It is just me or do people not talk anymore and prefer to moan here instead?


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'm failing to understand the logic here, as an owner of a dog in need of space, you KNOW your dog would not want to interact with another dog. You approach an enclosed space which has a gate to prevent dogs coming up to your dog, you see a dog, with owner close by, so you assume that owner has 100% recall and enter that space because you are in the right? Blimey, there are a lot of perfect dog owners out there.


So you think it's okay to allow your dog to run up to a leashed dog uninvited?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

ouesi said:


> So you think it's okay to allow your dog to run up to a leashed dog uninvited?


No, I don't, but I do think if you have a dog that does not react well to other dogs, and see an off lead dog the other side of a gate, the sensible thing to do is wait, rather than risk a confrontation.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Having a lead reactive dog i'd be unimpressed if your recall was pants- my dog doesn't need space from all dogs, but rude ones who get up in his grill and 'rile' him up- hell yes- just this morning some eejit allowed her dog to skulk over to mine and growl in his face, whilst i tried my best to mitigate and get shot of her dog- still low rumbling at mine- rude.

Quick thought on the poo- i forgot my bags a few times, never seen anyone to ask or they've past me . so i have gone home and got bags and returned. Can't say for sure she wouldn't have done that, can you?


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> No, I don't, but I do think if you have a dog that does not react well to other dogs, and see an off lead dog the other side of a gate, the sensible thing to do is wait, rather than risk a confrontation.


They weren't jsut the other side of the gate by Dan's description he was 15-20 metres from the gate.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> No, I don't, but I do think if you have a dog that does not react well to other dogs, and see an off lead dog the other side of a gate, the sensible thing to do is wait, rather than risk a confrontation.


Sorry SL, kinda get what you're saying but my dog will react to some rude offlead dogs, I cannot avoid off lead dogs anywhere i walk and frankly why should I?

Also i don't expect owners to all have a perfect recall, but most are very considerate and will recall or pap a lead on to any off lead dogs- this includes me when mine is off lead- i will return him to lead if another is on.

Also I don't want to avoid off lead dogs, they are a fact of my life and his life- he is hugely improved on his on-lead manners because of a heap of training.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> No, I don't, but I do think if you have a dog that does not react well to other dogs, and see an off lead dog the other side of a gate, the sensible thing to do is wait, rather than risk a confrontation.


Oh definitely.

But if you're going to criticize someone for being irresponsible, it's best not to do it while exhibiting irresponsible behavior yourself


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

moonviolet said:


> They weren't jsut the other side of the gate by Dan's description he was 15-20 metres from the gate.


Well from someone who waits to let their dogs out of the boot of the car until walkers/cyclists are well out of sight, over 40m, then I'd still say it's common courtesy to just wait, if you have a dog who is likely to cause a problem. Whether that's over friendly, or a DINO, 15-20m is nothing, to just wait until someone has reached a gate, put their dog on lead, and got out of your way so that you can enjoy your walk without risking confrontation.

It would be lovely to think every single dog in the world has a perfect recall, and would recall away from a DINO dog on lead, but then there's a reason DINO dogs are on lead in the first place, and owners of all types of dogs should show consideration and try to make each others lives easier. If that involves waiting for five mins to make sure everyone is happy, what is the problem?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Oh definitely.
> 
> But if you're going to criticize someone for being irresponsible, it's best not to do it while exhibiting irresponsible behavior yourself


You must be absolutely perfect then :dita:

Sorry ouesi, I know you put a lot of time and effort into training your dogs, and helping others, but for goodness sake, someone posts about an evening walk that's spoilt for both of them because of a lack of recall, and a lack of consideration. Lacking on both sides in my books, and I'm half way through preparing tea so apols if the tongue in cheek came across a little harshly


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I do see Sleeping Lions point TBF. There have been times when i've visited my local park which is fenced and has a kissing gate to enter and one time I remember, a dog saw us, came running over in anticipation of us entering but since I have a DINOS, I waited outside. The dog clearly wasnt going away and was winding mine up through the fence so I asked the man to recall his dog. Once I could see he had it under control, I entered the park and took a path away from the other dog.
Because I know I have a dog who wouldnt appreciate being mugged on lead, it was in everybody's interest that I wait outside until the situation was resolved.

But of course, the goal posts change slightly if this dog wasnt a real DINO but just took exception to Pippa running over, and of course we do not know how Pippa approached. If the lady's dog was sociable and she was going to let it off as soon as the gate was closed behind her, then there was no real need for her to wait outside.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

tia is usually reactive on lead, i don't inform every dog owner in the distance when walking in a public place just in case they allow their dog to come over. if you'd kept your dog under control then maybe she could have let her dog off and it would have been fine, that's probably the way it would have gone if it was me and tia, for example.
ofc there's no excuse for her not picking up but it's not okay for your dog to bother others either, especially if they're on lead.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> You must be absolutely perfect then :dita:


About time someone realized it! :ciappa:


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm sorry but I really can't resist this!!!

Maybe Pippa's recall would be better if you run and then let her chase after you!!!!


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> Maybe Pippa's recall would be better if you run and then let her chase after you!!!!


OMG :lol::lol::lol:
As my teenagers would say "you are so wrong for that" :laugh::laugh:


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'm failing to understand the logic here, as an owner of a dog in need of space, you KNOW your dog would not want to interact with another dog. You approach an enclosed space which has a gate to prevent dogs coming up to your dog, you see a dog, with owner close by, so you assume that owner has 100% recall and enter that space because you are in the right? Blimey, there are a lot of perfect dog owners out there.


You shouldnt have a dog off lead though if does not have a good re-call. If you dont think your dogs going to come back or is going to go up to people dogs etc then it should not be off lead.


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

Where does it say his dog has bad recall? Maybe he let his dog go over?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> OMG :lol::lol::lol:
> As my teenagers would say "you are so wrong for that" :laugh::laugh:


I'm sorry, it just came into my head and once it was there there was no stopping me!!


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Well from someone who waits to let their dogs out of the boot of the car until walkers/cyclists are well out of sight, over 40m, then I'd still say it's common courtesy to just wait, if you have a dog who is likely to cause a problem. Whether that's over friendly, or a DINO, 15-20m is nothing, to just wait until someone has reached a gate, put their dog on lead, and got out of your way so that you can enjoy your walk without risking confrontation.
> 
> It would be lovely to think every single dog in the world has a perfect recall, and would recall away from a DINO dog on lead, but then there's a reason DINO dogs are on lead in the first place, and owners of all types of dogs should show consideration and try to make each others lives easier. If that involves waiting for five mins to make sure everyone is happy, what is the problem?


Without seeing the layout of the area we can't really say what is best. the gate might be off a narrow lane and the owner might have wanted to nip in the gate and take a turn along a fence line thinking at 20 m away they had time to do it rather than a tense meeting of dogs onlead. who knows. but to label them irresponsible when their dog was onlead seemed a bit harsh.

20 metres is a fair distance infact i think it's quite possibly longer than the area labelled as the dog exercising area at my local park  You can see why i dont' use it :lol:


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Where does it say his dog has bad recall? Maybe he let his dog go over?


If a dog is on lead you shouldnt allow your dog to go over, whether you are walking towards them or not. You see another dog on lead, your dog should be re-called back or should not approach the other dog/people.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I can see both points of view but having a DINOS dog myself I always am the one to be over cautious, ask other people not to let there dogs run over, warn them that Roxy is iffy if dogs are too close, etc I work on the premise that it is MY dog that has the problem so I am the one to forewarn others.

I do understand that dogs shouldn't run over to other dogs but in the real work this happens alot (judging by posts on here) so surely the owner of a DINOS dog should be aware of this & try to manage the situation as best as they can. Not always possible I do realise this & have been in situations myself due to inconsiderate owners, but I would always try to manage as best I can as I would not want my dog to become stressed or upset others if she were to kick off 

Personally, in this situation I would have shouted out that my dog was not good around others & if I was out with my 'normal' dog & suspected that I was passing a DINOS dog then I would always put him on a ;lead & ensure there was space between us.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

moonviolet said:


> Without seeing the layout of the area we can't really say what is best. the gate might be off a narrow lane and the owner might have wanted to nip in the gate and take a turn along a fence line thinking at 20 m away they had time to do it rather than a tense meeting of dogs onlead. who knows. but to label them irresponsible when their dog was onlead seemed a bit harsh.
> 
> 20 metres is a fair distance infact i think it's quite possibly longer than the area labelled as the dog exercising area at my local park  You can see why i dont' use it :lol:


No we can't, but the description is a fenced in football field, the OP can see them approaching, perhaps the other dog owner was distracted, but with a dog that you have to keep on lead, you need to be aware of who is around you I would imagine.

I work on track so have to accurately estimate sighting distances constantly, 20m is not that far, I was up ladders at 7m last night, it's not hard to imagine them laid out twice on the ground, and then a little more, it really is not a huge sighting distance.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'm failing to understand the logic here, as an owner of a dog in need of space, you KNOW your dog would not want to interact with another dog. You approach an enclosed space which has a gate to prevent dogs coming up to your dog, you see a dog, with owner close by, so you assume that owner has 100% recall and enter that space because you are in the right? Blimey, there are a lot of perfect dog owners out there.


So does that mean that you don't have the right for your dog to enjoy a nice walk too?

I have been street walking Flynn all of his life until recently when a farmer gave me permission to use his enclosed field and still owners have off lead dogs - even on the street who they allow to approach. I would imagine the woman thought as her dog was on lead the other owner would at least have total recall of his dog otherwise it wouldn't be off lead in the first place - that's how it's supposed to be isn't it?

DINO dogs are suppressed enough so why can't an owner of a dog that has the freedom of off lead runs control it for the sake of others? A bit selfish IMO!


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Where does it say his dog has bad recall? Maybe he let his dog go over?


i think we're assuming the OP isn't that irresponsible.. failing on recall is one thing, allowing your dog to go over to on lead dogs is actually irresponsible.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Where does it say his dog has bad recall? Maybe he let his dog go over?


Oh I see, so you're saying he didn't even try to recall his dog - even worse then!


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

Reading the post it doesn't sound like he did


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

If I knew someone was leaving a field I would wait before entering.

The way I see it is: I know my dog is lead reactive, I do not know the person in the field is going to recall there dog or even if they do the dog has a good recall - I haven`t always had a 100% recall in all my dogs so don`t really expect everyone else to! So I go with what I know, which is my dog is very likey to get upset if that off lead dog comes near. On that basis and the in the situation the OP had described I would wait until the dog has left the field practising some watch me as they go by.

That is not to say I think this lady was irresponisble, maybe her dog had been doing excellently well with ignoring other dogs, like mine the other day sailing past all and sundry when she decides to tell a chocolate poodle excately what she thought of it! Who knows, I just go with what I think is best for my dog look after her needs and never ever expect owners to do anything I think is logical!!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

It would be nice if dandogman would come back to clarify a few points


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Malmum said:


> So does that mean that you don't have the right for your dog to enjoy a nice walk too?
> 
> I have been street walking Flynn all of his life until recently when a farmer gave me permission to use his enclosed field and still owners have off lead dogs - even on the street who they allow to approach. I would imagine the woman thought as her dog was on lead the other owner would at least have total recall of his dog otherwise it wouldn't be off lead in the first place - that's how it's supposed to be isn't it?
> 
> DINO dogs are suppressed enough so why can't an owner of a dog that has the freedom of off lead runs control it for the sake of others? A bit selfish IMO!


So you're saying now you've found your lovely field, if you saw one of the other users, you'd ignore the fact they were there and walk Flynn past them, or even walk through the gate without giving them chance to get out of your way first?

From your previous posts, you are keeping away from the areas other people use, ie showing *respect* for other dog walkers


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> No we can't, but the description is a fenced in football field, the OP can see them approaching, perhaps the other dog owner was distracted, but with a dog that you have to keep on lead, you need to be aware of who is around you I would imagine.
> 
> I work on track so have to accurately estimate sighting distances constantly, 20m is not that far, I was up ladders at 7m last night, it's not hard to imagine them laid out twice on the ground, and then a little more, it really is not a huge sighting distance.


Sorry i wasn't clear, i'm not saying it's too far to see, but do i think it's far enough to expect to be able to get through the gate and get yourself out of their way before the dog is upon you.... I probably do. Thats why i asked how Pippa approached, i'm guessing it was direct and fast.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Why should etiquette change depending on whether you're in an enclosed field, wood, beach or whatever?  Or do you mean it would have been different because there was nowhere she could have waited?
> 
> Personally I think both were at fault here to be honest. I wouldn't enter a field with a dog who needed space while someone else was coming off it but at the same time Pippa shouldn't have gone up to the leash dog in the first place.


I meant because she could have waited.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

metaldog said:


> Dog in need of Space
> 
> Dan I sometimes think you come and post these threads to deliberately cause friction on the forum


OMG!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

GermanShepardOwner said:


> You shouldnt have a dog off lead though if does not have a good re-call. If you dont think your dogs going to come back or is going to go up to people dogs etc then it should not be off lead.


Well then I'd say about 98% of dogs in the UK should never be let off lead, mine have a good recall, but not 100% recall.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

dandogman said:


> I meant because she could have waited.


But she didn't.
So why did you allow your dog to run over uninvited?
I'm still curious about the "obviously" Pippa went over to the dog. Why is that part a given?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Okay. I have read through this thread now. I can honestly assure you that I do not post to wind people up! I am a dog owner trying to do the best for my dog, when every other dog owner on this forum seems to bloody perfect!!!! Have you never had a young dog? Or are yours fabulously born with 100% recall? 


I personally fail to see why someone would enter an enclosed football pitch with another dog in there so close, with a DINOS anyway! Where has courtesy gone? Is it my fault her dog isn't great with other dogs? 20 bloody seconds! 
I know Pippa shouldn't have really gone over, but she doesn't have perfect recall like the rest of your dogs do obviously :rolleyes5: 

and as everyone seems to have ignored this point SHE DIDN'T PICK UP HER DOGS CRAP... or is that my fault to? :rolleyes5:


ETA: Pippa I would say has 85% recall, she will recall away from other dogs but not all the time. This is one of the reasons I use this field, because I can see all to check for other dogs. I only noticed her as she opened the gate, I turned around to see, and Pippa was off, didn't really have much time to put a decent recall in place. I ran over and grabbed her. I could have leisurely strolled on and left her to harass the dog. At the end of the day, it is her dog that is aggressive not mine.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

We have an understanding that only one person uses the field at a time, that way we can all do as we like, something we couldn't if we had to consider other dogs - note I say *'consider other dogs'*!  Only two other people use it anyway.

What I'm saying is the football pitch is not a private place (unlike our field) and anyone has the right to use it so no matter how many dogs are there it's there for all I would assume. If the OP stated he could clearly see the woman had a DINO dog so why would he even put his dog at risk by letting it go over to hers?

All this talk about the 'yellow ribbon' and dogs in need of space campaign will certainly fall on deaf ears if your attitude is anything to go by, see a DINO dog and ignore the owners plight. Not only is it a very bad experience for a DINO dog to be put in but also a potentially dangerous one for the approaching dog too!

A little consideration may go a long way because we owners go out of our way to make sure other peoples dogs are safe by keeping them on lead, a little consideration is all that's needed. Or perhaps we should all be treated like Lepers and be banned from walking in daylight hours in case some selfish owner fails to see the need to leash their dog, even for a few seconds, while our on lead dogs pass!

ETA - If I had seen a man with an off lead dog then NO I wouldn't have gone in, men can be even more inconsiderate than women dog walkers, it was a bloke who's dog attacked Flynn and usually men who walk them off lead in the streets around here too!


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

I walk a DINOS and I make it my own responsibility to make his walk pleasant for him. Never have I relied on the fact that others should have control over their dogs, in fact in a few circumstances I have had more control over a dog then it's owners have. That's life. 

Personally I would have waited or continued walking on past the park, he should not have to leash his dog earlier then he wanted for the sake of my dogs fear. I just don't think that's fair seeing as my dog is the one with anti social behaviour.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Malmum said:


> We have an understanding that only one person uses the field at a time, that way we can all do as we like, something we couldn't if we had to consider other dogs - note I say *'consider other dogs'*!  Only two other people use it anyway.
> 
> What I'm saying is the football pitch is not a private place (unlike our field) and anyone has the right to use it so no matter how many dogs are there it's there for all I would assume. If the OP stated he could clearly see the woman had a DINO dog so why would he even put his dog at risk by letting it go over to hers?
> 
> ...


So how is waiting for 15 seconds asking for too much, to allow someone to get their dog on lead, and out of the way of your dog that might react to it approaching?


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

And 20 bloody seconds of YOUR time is all it would have taken too!!! Works both ways Dandogman!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Tbh..I don't think any dog should be exercised in a football field , just my opinion


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> I walk a DINOS and I make it my own responsibility to make his walk pleasant for him. Never have I relied on the fact that others should have control over their dogs, in fact in a few circumstances I have had more control over a dog then it's owners have. That's life.
> 
> Personally I would have waited or continued walking on past the park, he should not have to leash his dog earlier then he wanted for the sake of my dogs fear. I just don't think that's fair seeing as my dog is the one with anti social behaviour.


This is a responsible owner right here ^^^^^


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Malmum said:


> And 20 bloody seconds of YOUR time is all it would have taken too!!! Works both ways Dandogman!


Eh? Not quite understanding that, were they meant to freeze time, go back 20 seconds and put their dog on lead


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

paddyjulie said:


> Tbh..I don't think any dog should be exercised in a football field , just my opinion


Why ever not? It has dog bins it, why not?


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

dandogman said:


> Okay. I have read through this thread now. I can honestly assure you that I do not post to wind people up! I am a dog owner trying to do the best for my dog, when every other dog owner on this forum seems to bloody perfect!!!! Have you never had a young dog? Or are yours fabulously born with 100% recall?
> 
> I personally fail to see why someone would enter an enclosed football pitch with another dog in there so close, with a DINOS anyway! Where has courtesy gone? Is it my fault her dog isn't great with other dogs? 20 bloody seconds!
> I know Pippa shouldn't have really gone over, but she doesn't have perfect recall like the rest of your dogs do obviously :rolleyes5:
> ...


Wait.
You don't want to be berated for not having a more reliable recall, but you want us to join you in berating an owner for not picking up after her dog?

Maybe... just a suggestion here... 
Maybe you could extend the same compassion and understanding you're asking for here, to this other owner who just experienced a stressful situation, and might have forgotten about poo in the excitement of the moment?


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

dandogman said:


> I meant because she could have waited.


She could have waited, but it was a public area and she probably didn't realise how little control you had over your dog. And why should SHE have to wait while you get yourself sorted out and your dog back on it's lead?

And the general assumption that her dog was in need of space may well be incorrect. Many normally friendly dogs get annoyed when a strange dog approaches them directly or at speed. It's bad manners.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Wait.
> You don't want to be berated for not having a more reliable recall, but you want us to join you in berating an owner for not picking up after her dog?
> 
> Maybe... just a suggestion here...
> Maybe you could extend the same compassion and understanding you're asking for here, to this other owner who just experienced a stressful situation, and might have forgotten about poo in the excitement of the moment?


Oh yes, stressful for the owner who let her dog merrily off that had just growled and lunged at my dog, as soon as I grabbed my dog. She was CLEARLY stressed obviously. She was so stressed she took the liberty to look at me as her dog was crapping to see if I was looking, and then didn't pick it up anyway.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> She could have waited, but it was a public area and she probably didn't realise how little control you had over your dog. And why should SHE have to wait while you get yourself sorted out and your dog back on it's lead?
> 
> And the general assumption that her dog was in need of space may well be incorrect. Many normally friendly dogs get annoyed when a strange dog approaches them directly or at speed. It's bad manners.


'how little control' I have a darnsight better control of my dog than she did, growling, lunging and barking at every dog it sees!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

dandogman said:


> Why ever not? It has dog bins it, why not?


Because I certainly would not want any of my kids to end up face down where your dog has just crapped. Even if it has been picked up


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

dandogman said:


> 'how little control' I have a darnsight better control of my dog than she did, growling, lunging and barking at every dog it sees!


...but you didn't have control.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

paddyjulie said:


> Tbh..I don't think any dog should be exercised in a football field , just my opinion


We have a local dog training club who use a football pitch, as long as you pick up after our dog, where he harm in it.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

paddyjulie said:


> Because I certainly would not want any of my kids to end up face down where your dog has just crapped. Even if it has been picked up


If it has been picked up, how is there still crap on the floor?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Gemmaa said:


> ...but you didn't have control.


Not 100% no, but who does lets be honest here!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

dandogman said:


> 'how little control' I have a darnsight better control of my dog than she did, growling, lunging and barking at every dog it sees!


Why is your dog 'naturally' going over to see every do. Why not recall her away?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

dandogman said:


> 'how little control' I have a darnsight better control of my dog than she did, growling, lunging and barking at every dog it sees!


Perhaps she did have some control..but now may have even less because you did not call your dog back when you should have , and it may well have caused a huge setback with her dog .


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

dandogman said:


> 'how little control' I have a darnsight better control of my dog than she did, growling, lunging and barking at every dog it sees!


You only mentioned it's reaction to Pippa, did it then go on to behave the same way to other dogs?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

paddyjulie said:


> Perhaps she did have some control..but now may have even less because you did not call your dog back when you should have , and it may well have caused a huge setback with her dog .


Oh yes, obviously my fault.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

dandogman said:


> 'how little control' I have a darnsight better control of my dog than she did, growling, lunging and barking at every dog it sees!


Well, you clearly couldn't stop your dog approaching this other one. And how many dogs did this other dog bark and lunge at, exactly? Just yours? The one who had just approached it uninvited?

And her dog was on lead. The control is implicit.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

dandogman said:


> If it has been picked up, how is there still crap on the floor?


you will have to sniff the grass to make sure its all gone


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

dandogman said:


> If it has been picked up, how is there still crap on the floor?


The squits? Less formed poos?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> You only mentioned it's reaction to Pippa, did it then go on to behave the same way to other dogs?


Yes, all the time, every dog it sees! We normally pass it walking to the field on our way back.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

dandogman said:


> Oh yes, obviously my fault.


Glad you've come to realise it....


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Yes, all the time, every dog it sees! We normally pass it walking to the field on our way back.


So you knew and didnt get pippa away?

There are aggressive dogs here so I dont allow Alfie too near them. Why put Pippa in danger?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> So you knewand didnt get pippa away?
> 
> There are aggressive dogs here so I dont allow Alfie too near them. Why put Pippa in danger?


I didn't see her until she was opening the gate, as I was just about to recall Pippa out of a wooded area (where is a hole in the fence).


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

So let's get this straight, because people are jumping to conclusions all over the place her. You were on your way to the gate with Pippa, who was off lead. You noticed someone coming through the gate with their dog which isn't good with dogs approaching when it's on lead. You know you should be able to recall Pippa, but are annoyed the owner simply didn't give you chance, because it was an obvious confrontation waiting to happen, that's how I've read it so far.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Jesus, talk about some people making a mountain out of a molehill.

My dogs are friendly (well, most of the time...) but if I saw someone heading towards the exit of a field, I would wait until they had their dog on a lead before entering myself. It would be far easier to wait for a moment than enter the field myself, guns blazing, and have the saga of my dogs on a lead with an off lead dog coming up to them. 

No, the woman shouldn't HAVE to wait, but common sense says that if your dog has a problem and you can clearly see someone coming towards the exit, wait. It isn't rocket science. It isn't any different than me stopping and waiting with my dogs on lead to allow a person/bike/jogger etc to come past. I do what makes my life easier and in that situation, waiting for a moment would be easier.

In the perfect world, every dog would have a magical recall but as we know this is not reality. The notion that every dog should recall 100% of the time is rubbish; perfection doesn't exist. If that were the case 99% of dogs would never be let off the lead. Live and let live, worse things have happened.


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Well then I'd say about 98% of dogs in the UK should never be let off lead, mine have a good recall, but not 100% recall.


No dog would have 100% recall. But most of the time they should come when called from another dog, person, car, danger etc. If you are not confident your dog is going to come back to you then its not worth the risk.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Yes, all the time, every dog it sees! We normally pass it walking to the field on our way back.


That changes things slightly then for me. If you have previous knowledge/experience of this dogs poor reaction to other dogs then maybe you should have recalled Pippa as soon as you saw the dog rather than risk her getting into a scuffle. I suppose it depends on how soon you saw the other dog owner, did you see her as she approached the gate on the other side for example or did you only see her as she came through the gate?

But again, this lady is obviously aware her dog has issues so she shouldnt have put her dog in a situation either. Just a bit of patience and thought on both parts would have eliminated what happened today.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

dandogman said:


> Oh yes, stressful for the owner who let her dog merrily off that had just growled and lunged at my dog, as soon as I grabbed my dog. She was CLEARLY stressed obviously. She was so stressed she took the liberty to look at me as her dog was crapping to see if I was looking, and then didn't pick it up anyway.


Oh, sorry. Didn't realize you had access to her thoughts and feelings and knew exactly what they were.

Dan, you're having a bit of a hissy fit over what amounts to imperfect behavior on all sides. She didn't make the best choices, but frankly, neither did you. 
And we're only getting your side of the story. 

Honestly, people need to look out for each other instead of looking for ways to tear each other down. 
You let your dog run up to another dog uninvited. No matter how you slice it, that's rude. Instead of a DINO, her dog could have been recovering from surgery, old and blind or hard of hearing, all sorts of things that would make having a dog run up to him really uncool.

But instead of recognizing your part in this whole fiasco, and taking responsibility for it, you're just going to bitch and moan about the other guy. And when folks don't join in your bash fest, you're going to bitch and moan at them too.

Seriously you got off easy. Your dog got away from you and only got snarked at. It happens. Learn and move on.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

dandogman said:


> 'how little control' I have a darnsight better control of my dog than she did, growling, lunging and barking at every dog it sees!


But how do you know this is the case? How do you know it wasn't just Pippas approach it reacted this way to? How do you know the dog isn't fine off leash but reactive on leash?

My dog isn't perfect and his recall isn't 100% but if I were in this situation I'd grab him and apologise profusely to the owner of the reactive dog, not consider them irresponsible for bringing their dog onto the field while I was there. The not picking up was irresponsible but saying she had no control over her dog because it reacted to your out of control off leash dog is absolutely ridiculous.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> So let's get this straight, because people are jumping to conclusions all over the place her. You were on your way to the gate with Pippa, who was off lead. You noticed someone coming through the gate with their dog which isn't good with dogs approaching when it's on lead. You know you should be able to recall Pippa, but are annoyed the owner simply didn't give you chance, because it was an obvious confrontation waiting to happen, that's how I've read it so far.


This is the situation:

Pippa was in a wooded area (hole in the fence), I was close to the gate (maybe some 10 - 20 meters away), I was facing Pippa (away from the gate), about to recall her. I heard the gate opening, and turned around to see who it was, by that time, Pippa was already running towards it. I tried to recall, but it isn't 100% yet. The dog reacted, and I ran over and grabbed Pip, that is what happened.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

If Pippa was in a wooded area, maybe the lady didnt even know you had a dog with you so thought she was safe to enter?

Just a thought.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I can see it from both sides to be honest. If I know there are dogs/people in the field that I use then I just don't go in and wait for however long is necessary for it to clear, most people aren't there for very long. I'd sooner abandon the walk than face a crap encounter. 

On the flip side I do not like strange dogs approaching mine as he hates it and is intimidated easily. So both parties are at fault I guess. 

No excuse for not picking up dog dirt though- not least in a football pitch. It is stuff like that that will have the councils seeking to ban dogs from these public spaces altogether, which is what my council is currently trying to do.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Hopefully your dog will never run up to a DINO dog the size of Flynn or you may not have a dog any more. Perhaps that would change you whole outlook! 

I do think it's a bit of a mountain/molehill reaction though! But then they often are aren't they? :yesnod:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

dandogman said:


> This is the situation:
> 
> Pippa was in a wooded area (hole in the fence), I was close to the gate (maybe some 10 - 20 meters away), I was facing Pippa (away from the gate), about to recall her. I heard the gate opening, and turned around to see who it was, by that time, Pippa was already running towards it. I tried to recall, but it isn't 100% yet. The dog reacted, and I ran over and grabbed Pip, that is what happened.


You both did what you could, not a nice situation, nobody is to blame, but it obviously made a [email protected] ending to your walk, and a not so nice start to the other person's walk.

I do agree they should have picked up their poo as well, and having had the occasional rant, I can't see what the problem is to be honest. It's not like you've asked for a petition for all DINO dogs to be banned from public areas, or even said it was 100% their fault, just one of those things and offloading sometimes makes you feel a bit better about it.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

This lady should also have her dog muzzled but the sounds of it?.. I have no idea why dan is getting so much flak?

I have had run ins with some very arrogant people who believe their dog has more rights then others purely on the grounds that it is aggressive and should be respected for it. I was even told to leave a park with one of mine just because she didn't want to have to put her dog aggressive dog on leash, not saying everyone is like this of course but there are some stupid people out there who should not be owners of such dogs.


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Leanne77 said:


> If Pippa was in a wooded area, maybe the lady didnt even know you had a dog with you so thought she was safe to enter?
> 
> Just a thought.


Beat me to it just about to say that  
In all honestly Dan I think this is just one of those things, the lady entered with her dog you didn`t have time to get Pippa back, maybe lady didn`t see you maybe she did you don`t know so TBH honest I wouldn`t get yourself so bothered by it, all sort of things happen in every day life some are worth writing home about some are not (thats one of my mums sayings )


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Hopefully your dog will never run up to a DINO dog the size of Flynn or you may not have a dog any more. Perhaps that would change you whole outlook! :


That is disgusting, it's almost like your boasting?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Malmum said:


> Hopefully your dog will never run up to a DINO dog the size of Flynn or you may not have a dog any more. Perhaps that would change you whole outlook!
> 
> I do think it's a bit of a mountain/molehill reaction though! But then they often are aren't they? :yesnod:


Given the age difference between you and the OP, do you really think that's a helpful response?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sezeelson said:


> That is disgusting, it's almost like your boasting?


My thoughts exactly!


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

One of the commons that I take the dogs to, the car park can be approached from all directions. Because it is an open expanse of common, dog walkers can see each other clearly. If I see someone walking to the car park first, I hang back because I do not know what their dogs will do and do not want to instigate anything. When there is no one there, only then will I go ahead. Politeness and forethought is a bit lacking sometimes, in my opinion 

It is well worth waiting just a bit longer to avoid any unpleasantness which could spoil a lovely walk


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Hopefully your dog will never run up to a DINO dog the size of Flynn or you may not have a dog any more. Perhaps that would change you whole outlook!
> 
> I do think it's a bit of a mountain/molehill reaction though! But then they often are aren't they? :yesnod:


Then I would take you to court!

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, CLOSE THE PAGE, AND MOVE TO ANOTHER THREAD.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> This lady should also have her dog muzzled but the sounds of it?..


What makes you think that? Many dogs are all noise and slobber and nothing more. I certainly wouldn't muzzle a dog who was noisy but didn't cause damage.

And I think Dan is getting flak because he's complaining about this woman being irresponsible yet didn't have control over his own dog who went charging over and caused the on leash dog to react.

At the end of the day though sh*t happens, these encounters happen from time to time and I think every dog owner is going to have a dog blow them off at some point.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I walk my dogs on an open expanse of moorland, yet I know that where I park my car, people won't be able to see me coming, so I put my dogs on lead. When I let them out of the car, I don't need to, but for the sake of common courtesy, I put them on lead and walk them back down to the car to make sure they're not a nuisance to anyone else. All it takes is a little bit of forethought, if you can't see another dog coming, and you know it might be the case, make it a point to recall your dog, and that goes for you too dandogman, and make sure they're not a nuisance. Then you can't be blamed for anyone else's dog being a problem


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Not 100% no, but who does lets be honest here!


If you need tips on recall training and getting Pippa to think you are more interesting then other dogs you can look at that video for tips.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I walk my dogs on an open expanse of moorland, yet I know that where I park my car, people won't be able to see me coming, so I put my dogs on lead. When I let them out of the car, I don't need to, but for the sake of common courtesy, I put them on lead and walk them back down to the car to make sure they're not a nuisance to anyone else. All it takes is a little bit of forethought, if you can't see another dog coming, and you know it might be the case, make it a point to recall your dog, and that goes for you too dandogman, and make sure they're not a nuisance. Then you can't be blamed for anyone else's dog being a problem


If I had saw this dog before I did, I would have put in a better recall attempt or asked the lady to wait whilst I recalled my dog.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> If you need tips on recall training and getting Pippa to think you are more interesting then other dogs you can look at that video for tips.


Emmaviolet, with all courtesy, I do hope you are older than the op? Otherwise, what is the point of being so patronising.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> If you need tips on recall training and getting Pippa to think you are more interesting then other dogs you can look at that video for tips.


What video is that?


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I have a very reactive dog. If I was approaching a closed field or similar area, and there was someone nearby with a dog, I would definitely wait, especially if I could see they were heading for the exit. (yes am writing on the assumption that the other owner could see Dan and Pippa).


DAN I feel for you - I have worked really hard on Dex's recall but occasionally, yep - he goes over to another dog. I am always right there behind him, apologising. 


Keep working on Pippa's recall, as it will make these encounters easier for you to manage


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

dandogman said:


> If I had saw this dog before I did, I would have put in a better recall attempt or asked the lady to wait whilst I recalled my dog.


Since you know now that this might be a problem in that area, I'd suggest you make recall into a nice game so that Pippa comes back to you before you are anywhere near the gate


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Since you know now that this might be a problem in that area, I'd suggest you make recall into a nice game so that Pippa comes back to you before you are anywhere near the gate


I recall her several times during each walk, and reward with a treat. Maybe as you say I need to turn it into a game, maybe a game of tug, she likes that, it might be more encouraging. Thanks for the tip.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Having a dog who had major spine op last september, my walks with him have been so spoiled by owners allowing their off lead dogs to come up to him while on lead, i have had to shout out so many times( "please recall your dog away from mine) , my dog is a small dog and ive even had an off lead dog trying to jump all over him , and ive ended up in tears on so many walks, why oh why cant dog owners just put their dogs on a lead when they see another dog on lead, surely its common sense that dog is on lead for a reason,,,


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

i still don't really see what your problem is, it was you that let your dog go over. the way you're going on about her lack of control because her dog was lunging and barking isn't very nice, especially when your dog was out of control too. you don't know why that dog was like that and at least it was on a lead, if it even is aggressive, which it might not be. apart from not picking up some poo, how is the other owner at any more fault than you?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Emmaviolet, with all courtesy, I do hope you are older than the op?


I have to admit, it does grate on me how members ages always get brought up when someone doesn't agree with a younger members opinion. This forum isn't aimed at children, so if children wish to be on it, then I feel they should be able to join in with adults discussion about things like this.

Also - to be person, can't remember who, that said the OP seems to start threads to cause controversy, couldn't agree more! Threads pop up, member disappears, and returns later to pages upon pages. Great fun, eh?!


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> What makes you think that? Many dogs are all noise and slobber and nothing more. I certainly wouldn't muzzle a dog who was noisy but didn't cause damage.
> 
> And I think Dan is getting flak because he's complaining about this woman being irresponsible yet didn't have control over his own dog who went charging over and caused the on leash dog to react.
> 
> At the end of the day though sh*t happens, these encounters happen from time to time and I think every dog owner is going to have a dog blow them off at some point.


For starters it can calm a dog down, secondly a dog wearing a muzzle makes others feel more comfortable knowing that the dog cannot actually inflict injury whilst lunging and snapping. Only to use during training purposes I'd never stick a muzzle on a dog and think problem solved.

He had reasonable control over his dog, no less or more then I would expect from most dog owners. Recall training takes time to train and even then some dogs will have an off day and stick two fingers up! Lol 

Personally I use approaching dogs to my advantage with my DINOS, using every situation as chance to train rather then get annoyed at owners for enjoying their walks.

But you are totally correct, sh*t happens and it's just one of those things that happen when you are a dog owner!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

hazel pritchard said:


> Having a dog who had major spine op last september, my walks with him have been so spoiled by owners allowing their off lead dogs to come up to him while on lead, i have had to shout out so many times( "please recall your dog away from mine) , my dog is a small dog and ive even had an off lead dog trying to jump all over him , and ive ended up in tears on so many walks, why oh why cant dog owners just put their dogs on a lead when they see another dog on lead, surely its common sense that dog is on lead for a reason,,,


Whilst I do feel for you, is there nowhere else you can walk your dog? I do presume at least 90% of the dog owning population to be numpties. I've got a dog who has just been through surgery yet again, fortunately nothing major, but I don't take her where other dogs could possibly trounce her. I know that's not always an easy option, but I don't take her with the other girls for a leadwalk even, for the risk of bumping into other dogs who could make her life more difficult.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

SixStar said:


> I have to admit, it does grate on me how members ages always get brought up when someone doesn't agree with a younger members opinion. This forum isn't aimed at children, so if children wish to be on it, then I feel they should be able to join in with adults discussion about things like this.
> 
> Also - to be person, can't remember who, that said the OP seems to start threads to cause controversy, couldn't agree more! Threads pop up, member disappears, and returns later to pages upon pages. Great fun, eh?!


I apologise for having a life, and not sitting behind a computer all day.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

SixStar said:


> I have to admit, it does grate on me how members ages always get brought up when someone doesn't agree with a younger members opinion. This forum isn't aimed at children, so if children wish to be on it, then I feel they should be able to join in with adults discussion about things like this.
> 
> Also - to be person, can't remember who, that said the OP seems to start threads to cause controversy, couldn't agree more! Threads pop up, member disappears, and returns later to pages upon pages. Great fun, eh?!


So you feel it's ok to be derogatory to someone who is less than half your age, and has so much less experience about dog ownership and training? Because that's the way to teach people about what they're doing wrong, and where they could possibly improve? Right, I get your logic!!


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> Having a dog who had major spine op last september, my walks with him have been so spoiled by owners allowing their off lead dogs to come up to him while on lead, i have had to shout out so many times( "please recall your dog away from mine) , my dog is a small dog and ive even had an off lead dog trying to jump all over him , and ive ended up in tears on so many walks, why oh why cant dog owners just put their dogs on a lead when they see another dog on lead, surely its common sense that dog is on lead for a reason,,,


I would definitely, recall my dog away from an on lead dog. She recalls really well from a reasonable distance. I always recall my dog if I can see the other dog is on a lead. (As I have stated, I didn't see her coming until it was too late)


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> So you feel it's ok to be derogatory to someone who is less than half your age, and has so much less experience about dog ownership and training? Because that's the way to teach people about what they're doing wrong, and where they could possibly improve? Right, I get your logic!!


Wasn't what I said now, was it?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> For starters it can calm a dog down, secondly a dog wearing a muzzle makes others feel more comfortable knowing that the dog cannot actually inflict injury whilst lunging and snapping. Only to use during training purposes I'd never stick a muzzle on a dog and think problem solved.


I found a muzzle actually added to my problems with Rupert (who was muzzled because he wasn't just noise and slobber, far from it in fact) though. It made people even less bothered about coming getting their dog because they believed he couldn't injure it (which is actually not the case, a muzzled dog can still inflict serious injury). It made him a target for assholse to purposely set their dogs on. It got me a ton of abuse for daring to take a "vicious" dog out in public. And it made him a target for wannabe hard guys to show just how fearless they were by running up and doing stupid things to the dog who is obviously aggressive because it's muzzled. So I'm afraid there is no way on earth I'd muzzle a dog who just put on a big, noisy display.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

Age has eff all to do with this thread. Old people can be numpties and the young and ALLLL those who are in the middle can be too.

Right, Dandogman, your dog buggered off towards another dog, don't worry it happens, (I have one of THOSE dogs, who will attempt to charge up to another dog if offlead), just gotta learn from it really, be a tad weary about other dog owners you meet etc etc, try recalling a bit earlier etc etc etc (don't wanna repeat whats probs been said a hundred and ten times). 

Have you tried a longline at all? May work for you, may not. Didn't work for me as I just got dragged along when my lurcher went into a sprint, but see if you can borrow one or something.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Irresponsible owner, yes - but not sure it was the woman!  Her dog was on a lead, yours wasn't and went over uninvited.





SixStar said:


> I have to admit, it does grate on me how members ages always get brought up when someone doesn't agree with a younger members opinion. This forum isn't aimed at children, so if children wish to be on it, then I feel they should be able to join in with adults discussion about things like this.
> 
> Also - to be person, can't remember who, that said the OP seems to start threads to cause controversy, couldn't agree more! Threads pop up, member disappears, and returns later to pages upon pages. Great fun, eh?!


The OP is a teenager, what's your excuse? They may not post threads or titles in the way you like, but for goodness sake, they are still learning, and have a whole life time of dog ownership ahead of them. I wouldn't be surprised from some of the responses on this thread if they decided cat ownership were for them!! And that is tongue in cheek in case anyone wonders.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

*If* I'm reading it correctly, it sounds as though the other dog owner was already entering the field before DAN had even realised she was there...

Again, as I have a reactive dog, if he was on lead, and there was an off lead dog in the field, no way would I go through that gate until the other person had clearly seen me and acknowledged my arrival. I know my dog may kick off, I would do all I could to avoid this happening.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> The OP is a teenager, what's your excuse? They may not post threads or titles in the way you like, but for goodness sake, they are still learning, and have a whole life time of dog ownership ahead of them. I wouldn't be surprised from some of the responses on this thread if they decided cat ownership were for them!! And that is tongue in cheek in case anyone wonders.


My excuse for what? Blimey, I knew there was a reason I had you on ignore for so long.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Emmaviolet, with all courtesy, I do hope you are older than the op? Otherwise, what is the point of being so patronising.


I was actually going for sarcasm and I think that that applies for all ages!


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

LurcherOwner said:


> Age has eff all to do with this thread. Old people can be numpties and the young and ALLLL those who are in the middle can be too.
> 
> Right, Dandogman, your dog buggered off towards another dog, don't worry it happens, (I have one of THOSE dogs, who will attempt to charge up to another dog if offlead), just gotta learn from it really, be a tad weary about other dog owners you meet etc etc, try recalling a bit earlier etc etc etc (don't wanna repeat whats probs been said a hundred and ten times).
> 
> Have you tried a longline at all? May work for you, may not. Didn't work for me as I just got dragged along when my lurcher went into a sprint, but see if you can borrow one or something.


I have got a long line, but am I little apprehensive about using it, as it has got tangled in her legs before, and it yets all tangled and muddy.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Blinking eck you lot!

My 2 cents on it is, as an owner of two DINOS (thank you IPad for putting dinosaurs there...not far off!) I would and do treat all other dog others like total, selfish a-holes (not aimed at you Dan!) I treat them like they have NO control and I ALWAYS assume the worst.

Last night I walked The Terrors up to an enclosed field late at night, there was a young lad with his Staff, I walked up to the gate and the dog approached the gate naturally to investigate my 2, my 2 went mad and the dog trotted off. I COULD have gone in the field and kept my 2 on lead and said to the guy "keep your dog away from mine mate!" instead I walked around for another 20mins in the peeing rain and waited until he left, kept my 2 on lead and walked them into the field and let them off once I checked it was clear.

It works both ways. I often avoid places because of out of control dogs, I treat them all like idiots and always play it safe because I want my dogs to have a stress free walk and I am not going to put them under stress just because " I have the right to walk here" if it means waiting 20 seconds or 20minutes I don't care, just assume EVERYONE is an a$$hole.

On the other hand I have had SOOOO many dogs run over to mine on leads and they go mad as other dogs jump all over them and stick their noses in their faces. So I get mad when that happens, always in large open fields plenty of space for us all to respect each other. But if I had seen your dog off lead under control or not I would have walked away, ASSUMED you had no control and come back in 10 minutes.

Works both ways. Perhaps a long line is a good idea just until recall is 99.9% I use one on Dottie as I know she has selected recall!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

dandogman said:


> What video is that?


It's the video that you had a problem with earlier on in the week, if Pippa were as responsive to you as the eight week old puppy was to those children, she most likely would have come back to you instead of winding up the other dog.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

dandogman said:


> I have got a long line, but am I little apprehensive about using it, as it has got tangled in her legs before, and it yets all tangled and muddy.


I was awful with a long line - lethal to anyone nearby!

A Flexi lead can really help though, as long as you don't let your dog run right to the end. I used a Flexi for recall training and I found it very good. Just a thought


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

If the thread title had been "had a bit of a situation who was at fault? how can i prevent it in future" I think there would have been many helpful responses. In the same way it's nice to show someone with a young dog that is still learning a little consideration, it's also nice to show some consideration to someone who may have a reactive dog

I don't think anyone claims their dog is perfect on here, Mine certainly isn't or she woudln't have stopped to snack on a little rabbit poo before continuing the exercise we were doing this morning 

I've become quite confused as to whether the other person could have seen Pippa off in the wooded area or not, ( i hope it's secure and she couldn't get off on a scent and get away from you) I mean presumable with a gate she had to turn her back to close it.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> I found a muzzle actually added to my problems with Rupert (who was muzzled because he wasn't just noise and slobber, far from it in fact) though. It made people even less bothered about coming getting their dog because they believed he couldn't injure it (which is actually not the case, a muzzled dog can still inflict serious injury). It made him a target for assholse to purposely set their dogs on. It got me a ton of abuse for daring to take a "vicious" dog out in public. And it made him a target for wannabe hard guys to show just how fearless they were by running up and doing stupid things to the dog who is obviously aggressive because it's muzzled. So I'm afraid there is no way on earth I'd muzzle a dog who just put on a big, noisy display.


I'm sorry, I've never herd of anyone having such a negative experience with a muzzle. It has worked wonders for me :S and proven itself a very useful tool! I don't take muzzling lightly though and will do everything I can to avoid using it but safety is a priority.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> It's the video that you had a problem with earlier on in the week, if Pippa were as responsive to you as the eight week old puppy was to those children, she most likely would have come back to you instead of winding up the other dog.


That is an 8 week old puppy though, not a 11 month old dog.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

SixStar said:


> Irresponsible owner, yes - but not sure it was the woman!  Her dog was on a lead, yours wasn't and went over uninvited.





Leanne77 said:


> I can see this from both POV. If I was entering with my DINOS dog and saw somebody approaching the gate ready to exit and their dog was off, I would wait until they had left, or shouted out "are you coming this way?", I think it was a tad silly of the woman in this case.
> 
> However, I dont like the phrase "*obviously* Pippa went to investigate" as it insinuates that she had some kind of green light to go over and that you had little control over that, or that you at least didnt see a problem.





ouesi said:


> Why do you think it's "obvious" that Pippa would go investigate another dog?
> Why did you allow your dog to go investigate a dog who was "clearly" a DINO?
> Why did you not recall your dog when you saw the dog was riled up?
> 
> You're lucky your dog didn't get a boot in the bum or worse from the upset dog.


Got to page 10 then got bored. I agree with the above. I have one that needs his space when onlead. I then judge the other dogs and ask if it is alright to let him off to greet - I make sure they know he has a muzzle on and that I can get in there if need be. So far he's not had a problem. But trying to fix his onlead behaviour is a damned sight harder when people don't or can't recall their dogs.



Leanne77 said:


> That changes things slightly then for me. If you have previous knowledge/experience of this dogs poor reaction to other dogs then maybe you should have recalled Pippa as soon as you saw the dog rather than risk her getting into a scuffle. I suppose it depends on how soon you saw the other dog owner, did you see her as she approached the gate on the other side for example or did you only see her as she came through the gate?
> 
> But again, this lady is obviously aware her dog has issues so she shouldnt have put her dog in a situation either. Just a bit of patience and thought on both parts would have eliminated what happened today.


Ahh but the OP things dogs should learn from each other - he said so in the other thread - so perhaps Pippa either has to learn to stick up for herself or stay away? You know because thats the dogs responsibility afterall.. Just saying..


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

dandogman said:


> I have got a long line, but am I little apprehensive about using it, as it has got tangled in her legs before, and it yets all tangled and muddy.


Hmmmm maybe just try it for one walk and see how it goes really, but if you don't feel comfortable using it then don't obvs.

No excuse for her not picking up the crap though, cannot go into our local fields cause they are covered in poop (as well as not being secure!).


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

SLB said:


> Ahh but the OP things dogs should learn from each other - he said so in the other thread - so perhaps Pippa either has to learn to stick up for herself or stay away? You know because thats the dogs responsibility afterall.. Just saying..


Being irrevelant and dredging up things from other threads fun for you is it?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I was awful with a long line - lethal to anyone nearby!
> 
> A Flexi lead can really help though, as long as you don't let your dog run right to the end. I used a Flexi for recall training and I found it very good. Just a thought


I am going to use a long line for our more 'busier' walks (in the afternoons) when we are more likely to bump into people. I have never met anyone on my 7am morning walks so I won't use it then. If I still cannot get to grips with it, I will look into to a flexi


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I was awful with a long line - lethal to anyone nearby!
> 
> A Flexi lead can really help though, as long as you don't let your dog run right to the end. I used a Flexi for recall training and I found it very good. Just a thought


Lol, I'm the opposite, give me my muddy, filthy, soaking wet long line over one of those godawful contraptions any day  But yeah, either works.

As for a long line getting dirty, well dirt washes off easily enough. A hell of a lot easier than undoing the psychological harm that an attack can cause


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

SLB said:


> Got to page 10 then got bored. I agree with the above. I have one that needs his space when onlead. I then judge the other dogs and ask if it is alright to let him off to greet - I make sure they know he has a muzzle on and that I can get in there if need be. So far he's not had a problem. But trying to fix his onlead behaviour is a damned sight harder when people don't or can't recall their dogs.
> 
> Ahh but the OP things dogs should learn from each other - he said so in the other thread - so perhaps Pippa either has to learn to stick up for herself or stay away? You know because thats the dogs responsibility afterall.. Just saying..


Seriously, you are pathetic. Go back and READ my posts from that thread.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

dandogman said:


> I am going to use a long line for our more 'busier' walks (in the afternoons) when we are more likely to bump into people. I have never met anyone on my 7am morning walks so I won't use it then. If I still cannot get to grips with it, I will look into to a flexi


If you do look into the flexi, make sure its the actual flexi brand and choose the correct one for your dogs weight.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Still ploughing through the thread, but what is a DINOS dog?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> Still ploughing through the thread, but what is a DINOS dog?


Dogs In Need Of Space


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> I'm sorry, I've never herd of anyone having such a negative experience with a muzzle. It has worked wonders for me :S and proven itself a very useful tool! I don't take muzzling lightly though and will do everything I can to avoid using it but *safety is a priority*.


That's why I kept on using one with Rupert despite all the problems we had. Quite often I'd just have it with me and pop it on if I spotted another dog we had to pass fairy close to or one that didn't appear to be under control and I saw several others with reactive dogs doing the same so can only assume they'd also run into similar problems. I stuck to street walks with Rupert so shouldn't have encountered off leash dogs but sadly we did on a regular basis.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

LurcherOwner said:


> If you do look into the flexi, make sure its the actual flexi brand and choose the correct one for your dogs weight.


We have got a flexi actually, but it doesn't go very far at all unfortunately.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Dan, I did say in my first post on this thread that I can see both sides to this story and I can - if I had been the lady I would have waited as I would have assumed that a loose dog would run over BUT don't think that she should have had to - it would have just been courtesy really to her dog and to you.



dandogman said:


> At the end of the day, it is her dog that is aggressive not mine.


This ^^^ I do not like. Kilo is harrassed up to several times per week by an offlead lab whilst we are road walking who bombs over, jumps on him, ignores me trying to get rid and Kilo's attempts at trying to get rid until he resorts to noise and slobber. The owner always says "My dog's friendly", looks at me with utter disgust and walks away even as I'm trying to explain why he reacted as he did, same with a bulldog and a boxer that we see regularly. They see it as totally my problem. I see it as a two - way street and a problem that is totally preventable with some common courtesy on both sides. I do my best to avoid them - they could use a lead.



dandogman said:


> 'how little control' I have a darnsight better control of my dog than she did, growling, lunging and barking at every dog it sees!


But you don't know why the dog reacts as it did - have a little compassion both for the dog and the woman as you'd like them to have for you, perhaps the dog has been attacked which makes it react like this? Perhaps the woman is working hard and Pippa running over set it back? I am not saying it is your fault at all that her dog is reactive, but maybe cutting a little slack would be nice?



Sarah1983 said:


> What makes you think that? Many dogs are all noise and slobber and nothing more. I certainly wouldn't muzzle a dog who was noisy but didn't cause damage.


This; Kilo will resort to noise and slobber once a certain level of harassment is reached. He has never (touch wood!) made contact and I wouldn't muzzle him for being noisy. I am working hard as I don't like him resorting to noise I hasten to add.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

LurcherOwner said:


> If you do look into the flexi, make sure its the actual flexi brand and choose the correct one for your dogs weight.


Totally agree. Dex is 34.5 kg and I usually use the Giant Flexi.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Dogless said:


> Dan, I did say in my first post on this thread that I can see both sides to this story and I can - if I had been the lady I would have waited as I would have assumed that a loose dog would run over BUT don't think that she should have had to - it would have just been courtesy really to her dog and to you.
> 
> This ^^^ I do not like. Kilo is harrassed up to several times per week by an offlead lab whilst we are road walking who bombs over, jumps on him, ignores me trying to get rid and Kilo's attempts at trying to get rid until he resorts to noise and slobber. The owner always says "My dog's friendly", looks at me with utter disgust and walks away even as I'm trying to explain why he reacted as he did, same with a bulldog and a boxer that we see regularly. They see it as totally my problem. I see it as a two - way street and a problem that is totally preventable with some common courtesy on both sides. I do my best to avoid them - they could use a lead.
> 
> ...


As I have said in a previous post, if I saw her, I would have got Pippa back straight away, but it happened in seconds really. Also, I didn't let Pippa harass the other dog, I ran over straight away, it stressed me out too, which is why I created this thread.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Totally agree. Dex is 34.5 kg and I usually use the Giant Flexi.


I will never ever use a flexi with mine and have been advised by one county head for a sighthound rescue to never to. Mainly because of the very quick increase of speed can either A) whip it out your hand, frightening the dog even more B) Snap it C) Jolt your dog so hard and can cause neck damage.

But but but but but, saying that there is an owner near me with a lurch who uses one for road walking no problem. Then again they also use a choke chain.

Those are another couple of points to consider with the flexi dandogman, regardless of what breed your dog is.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I just want to say thank you to the people who have put their points across on this thread in an appropriate manner, and also thanks to the people who have given me some tips. I do listen, and I don't create 'these threads' to annoy people. It is a real shame that people think that of me.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

dandogman said:


> I just want to say thank you to the people who have put their points across on this thread in an appropriate manner, and also thanks to the people who have given me some tips. I do listen, and I don't create 'these threads' to annoy people. *It is a real shame that people think that of me.*




Ignore the person who said that to you. That same person was also extremely unpleasant to me recently. You haven't done anything wrong


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm the pathetic one?

I can recall all 5 of mine from other dogs - including my anti social one. 4 of mine will walk past a dog kicking off without copying - 2 of them will even give a look that says "whats that all about?"

I put my dogs onlead each and every time I see a dog I don't know - I call over to see if theirs is Ok but only if the body language seems Ok. If not - I call over and say that one of mine isn't good - which 2 of mine aren't onlead. BUT mine are always under control. 

I don't leave things to chance - YOU let your dog wander over to this dog. YOU knew about the dogs issues. Therefore YOU are responsible for YOUR dog's safety. Yes the woman could've waited but then you could've recalled your dog.. 

It doesn't matter if the woman came in to the field - if you saw her and you can't recall your dog - you call over and ask for her to wait till you can get hold of your dog - that IS the the responsible thing to do. 

I take care of my dogs and my dogs only - they belong to me so if there is a threat to their safety - I step in. Because that is my responsibility. Most humans lack in consideration so I use my common sense. 

You can call me pathetic all you like but my dogs are under control when they are needed to be.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Agree with dogless on all points. In my case Flynn has had major hip replacement surgery and although I'm pretty sure he could 'hold his own' in a fight I wouldn't want him to. Also I had a years training with socialisation which was completely ruined by that off lead dog attack. 

There is usually a reason why a dog is on lead and it's not always aggression so it's good to be aware that the owner may have a difficult time - as you have in the past with Pippa - and cut her some slack. As has been said it's six of one and half a dozen of the other and I still think a guy would have had a go at you rather than saying nothing, while this woman has been criticised and called an irresponsible owner for not reacting at all!


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi Dan. To me it seems that you both made a pretty basic mistake. It sounds like you already knew the dog was a DINOS, but you didn't give it space (whether intentional or not) and the lady (whether she saw you and Pippa or not) entered an area in very close proximity to an offlead dog, thereby putting her dog in a dangerous position.

However, now you've calmed down a bit, you seem to be taking the advice on board and attempting to rectify your mistake. I hope the lady in question will now check and double check the gate area of the field before she enters. So hopefully you've both taken something positive away from the experience. I would urge you to not be so quick to judge others as "irresponsible" when really, you don't know the whole situation. Maybe a quick chat with her next time you bump into each other might help you find out what sets her dog off and why and how you could avoid it in the future? Plus a subtle mention of carrying poo bags might get your point across on that front!


Good luck with Pippa, we all dream of a perfect recall, but few of us get there!


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

SLB said:


> I'm the pathetic one?
> 
> I can recall all 5 of mine from other dogs - including my anti social one. 4 of mine will walk past a dog kicking off without copying - 2 of them will even give a look that says "whats that all about?"
> 
> ...


You don't seem to be able to read, you just jump on the high horse and demand people off threads.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Agree with dogless on all points. In my case Flynn has had major hip replacement surgery and although I'm pretty sure he could 'hold his own' in a fight I wouldn't want him to. Also I had a years training with socialisation which was completely ruined by that off lead dog attack.
> 
> There is usually a reason why a dog is on lead and it's not always aggression so it's good to be aware that the owner may have a difficult time - as you have in the past with Pippa - and cut her some slack. As has been said it's six of one and half a dozen of the other and I still think a guy would have had a go at you rather than saying nothing, while this woman has been criticised and called an irresponsible owner for not reacting at all!


I fail to see the need to for bringing the owners sex into this at all.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Pet Services Kent said:


> Hi Dan. To me it seems that you both made a pretty basic mistake. It sounds like you already knew the dog was a DINOS, but you didn't give it space (whether intentional or not) and the lady (whether she saw you and Pippa or not) entered an area in very close proximity to an offlead dog, thereby putting her dog in a dangerous position.
> 
> However, now you've calmed down a bit, you seem to be taking the advice on board and attempting to rectify your mistake. I hope the lady in question will now check and double check the gate area of the field before she enters. So hopefully you've both taken something positive away from the experience. I would urge you to not be so quick to judge others as "irresponsible" when really, you don't know the whole situation. Maybe a quick chat with her next time you bump into each other might help you find out what sets her dog off and why and how you could avoid it in the future? Plus a subtle mention of carrying poo bags might get your point across on that front!
> 
> Good luck with Pippa, we all dream of a perfect recall, but few of us get there!


To be honest, the main reason why I said she was irresponsible was because she didn't clear up after her dog.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

dandogman said:


> You don't seem to be able to read, you just jump on the high horse and demand people off threads.


I can't get on high horses - I'm 5'4"  :ciappa:


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

SLB said:


> I can't get on high horses - I'm 5'4"  :ciappa:


which is exactly why you jump...


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> It's the video that you had a problem with earlier on in the week, if Pippa were as responsive to you as the eight week old puppy was to those children, she most likely would have come back to you instead of winding up the other dog.


Sarcastic or not, I do think this is a good point. I'm not having a dig, but does Pippa find you fun enough? Are you too strict?

I always run away from my boys and they all have a brilliant recall and are very focused on me. They also walk past joggers, cyclists and can walk around the edge of a football match without interfering, it hasn't encouraged them to chase anyone.

Perhaps you should experiment and give it a go, you might be surprised and it could work really well for you.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Just think Dan...there could be a lady somewhere else on another forum with a very similar thread :lol: :lol:

^^^^^ this is a joke


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Gemmaa said:


> Sarcastic or not, I do think this is a good point. I'm not having a dig, but does Pippa find you fun enough? Are you too strict?
> 
> I always run away from my boys and they all have a brilliant recall and are very focused on me. They also walk past joggers, cyclists and can walk around the edge of a football match without interfering, it hasn't encouraged them to chase anyone.
> 
> Perhaps you should experiment and give it a go, you might be surprised and it could work really well for you.


I probably am too strict tbh...
What I am going to do is put her on her long line, and bring a tug toy, and play tug every time she recalls, hopefully it should have a bit more meaning than a treat. I will update everyone how we get on with this in a few weeks.


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

dandogman said:


> To be honest, the main reason why I said she was irresponsible was because she didn't clear up after her dog.


Fair enough- that is irresponsible. Although she may have come back for it on her way out? If I was struggling to deal with Bailey kicking off and knew I'd be coming back and that there was unlikely to be anyone else coming into the field, I'd probably have picked it up when I got back to the gate.

As a side note, a group of people who regularly used our local rec decided to make a point about all the dog poo, and stuck little flags in each pile that was left. A lot of people said they could have spent that time picking it up, but they weren't dog owners, so why should they. There were so many of them, it's really raised awareness and made more people pick up after their dogs  plus it's made it more obvious for people walking and therefore they are less likely to step in it!!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Never occurs to me to blame another owner when my dog is out of control and her recall isn't strong enough


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

dandogman said:


> which is exactly why you jump...


I tried jumping once.. I still can't get up there. Seriously why put me on a 16 and a half HH horse.. I much preferred the pony I used to ride.


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

dandogman said:


> I probably am too strict tbh...
> What I am going to do is put her on her long line, and bring a tug toy, and play tug every time she recalls, hopefully it should have a bit more meaning than a treat. I will update everyone how we get on with this in a few weeks.


We did an interesting exercise at a course I attended recently- sit down and write down 20 things your dog likes- can be anything at all that she enjoys- then try and work out a way to turn each one into a reward. One of Bailey's fave rewards since that course is a plastic bottle- I knew he loved them but never occurred to me to use it as a reward! (These were referred to as life rewards.)


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Pet Services Kent said:


> Fair enough- that is irresponsible. Although she may have come back for it on her way out? If I was struggling to deal with Bailey kicking off and knew I'd be coming back and that there was unlikely to be anyone else coming into the field, I'd probably have picked it up when I got back to the gate.
> 
> As a side note, a group of people who regularly used our local rec decided to make a point about all the dog poo, and stuck little flags in each pile that was left. A lot of people said they could have spent that time picking it up, but they weren't dog owners, so why should they. There were so many of them, it's really raised awareness and made more people pick up after their dogs  plus it's made it more obvious for people walking and therefore they are less likely to step in it!!


I went around there on the day before it snowed (as I knew it was going to snow - forecast) and picked up every single bit of poo I could find. I would hate a child to end up with it all over their hands or worse face, if they were playing snowballs for instance.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Gemmaa said:


> Sarcastic or not, I do think this is a good point. I'm not having a dig, but does Pippa find you fun enough? Are you too strict?
> 
> I always run away from my boys and they all have a brilliant recall and are very focused on me. They also walk past joggers, cyclists and can walk around the edge of a football match without interfering, it hasn't encouraged them to chase anyone.
> 
> Perhaps you should experiment and give it a go, you might be surprised and it could work really well for you.


Yes well it was half and half. 

I think this is the best way to distract a dog and get them to come with you too.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Pet Services Kent said:


> We did an interesting exercise at a course I attended recently- sit down and write down 20 things your dog likes- can be anything at all that she enjoys- then try and work out a way to turn each one into a reward. One of Bailey's fave rewards since that course is a plastic bottle- I knew he loved them but never occurred to me to use it as a reward! (These were referred to as life rewards.)


I will do that! 

ETA: Pippa's number one love is other dogs, how do I turn this into a reward?


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## Beth17 (Jun 5, 2012)

I think from how I've been reading/interpreting things you both could have acted differently in the situation. Pippa shouldn't have run over to the on lead dog but likewise maybe the other owner could have waited whilst you recalled her.

My two have done it and I'm sure Sam will do it again however accidents happen sometimes these things are out of our control. I do know how frustrating it is to have a dog run up to Oscar if he's having a funny day, however I just do my best to avoid busy areas and warn others that he may get gobby.

I know how hard recall can be as when out with Sam I am constantly scouting around checking for dogs that he may decide he likes the look of. Whilst he is getting much better he is still young and impulsive and occasionally dogs do pop up from nowhere and catch us off guard. That is why I always carry his longline or longer lead and if in doubt he goes on it such as going round a corner and when he's off it I run around like a loon getting his attention.

It's happened now and all you can do is learn from it


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

dandogman said:


> I will do that!
> 
> ETA: Pippa's number one love is other dogs, how do I turn this into a reward?


Pippa sounds very much like Dex. You have to become more fun than other dogs - not easy, but it can be done!

Is she food motivated? I have turned recall into a game and it really helped. When I recall him and he reaches me, I hurl a treat and yell 'find!'. Or sometimes I hide a treat in a closed fist behind my back, bring out two closed fists, and then Dex has to 'find' the treat.

Or the reward can be a game of tug. A run.

It may take time but don't despair 

Are you practising the recall a lot at home? You need to - at home, in the garden, when Pippa is on lead during walks... It has to become an automatic response that when you recall her, she turns and runs to you 

If she is in the habit of ignoring the command, *change* the command! Once you have done that, then ANY time Pippa ignores the recall, you calmly and quietly walk over to her and put her on the lead and then walk her to where you want her to be - without speaking.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

dandogman said:


> As I have said in a previous post, if I saw her, I would have got Pippa back straight away, but it happened in seconds really. Also, I didn't let Pippa harass the other dog, I ran over straight away, it stressed me out too, which is why I created this thread.


Yes; I've said twice that I can see your side to the story - I'm just suggesting that you could maybe see hers a little too. We all have bad days / don't engage our brains in time etc.


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

dandogman said:


> I will do that!
> 
> ETA: Pippa's number one love is other dogs, how do I turn this into a reward?


Find a dog you know it is safe for her to play with, give her permission to go play, after a few minutes- recall her, make a fuss, release her to go play again- repeat!

This was what was suggested when somebody asked the same question!


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

dandogman said:


> I will do that!
> 
> ETA: Pippa's number one love is other dogs, how do I turn this into a reward?


There is no reason why play with other dogs can't be used as a reward when appropriate.
Often I see a lot of owners recall their dogs to leave the park, to end play, to put them on leash, to get in the car and leave the fun, to come inside so the owner can leave for the day.... Before you know it, these smart dogs stop recalling well because they're thinking "no way! Every time I come, the fun stops!"

So definitely, as often as possible, whenever appropriate, the "reward" for recall should be that the dog gets to go back to what they were doing that they were enjoying.

This is also where having a training class is so helpful, because you can make sure the "reward" dogs are well socialized and controlled and that your dog doesn't get a chance to self reinforce.

That said, I think it's important to make yourself the coolest thing ever. 
If Pippa loves other dogs, you can use the premack principle to transfer the value of other dogs on to you. Here, this is an explanation of how that works:
Grow the Value | Susan Garrett&#039;s Dog Training Blog


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

Having read through the whole thread, it shows that things can happen very quickly in a matter of seconds and it is happening before people can get or try to get the situation under control.

It is very easy to come down on someone about their recall but everyone has their off days and their dog is not interested in listening to them.

Two sides to every story


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

ouesi said:


> There is no reason why play with other dogs can't be used as a reward when appropriate.
> Often I see a lot of owners recall their dogs to leave the park, to end play, to put them on leash, to get in the car and leave the fun, to come inside so the owner can leave for the day.... Before you know it, these smart dogs stop recalling well because they're thinking "no way! Every time I come, the fun stops!"
> 
> So definitely, as often as possible, whenever appropriate, the "reward" for recall should be that the dog gets to go back to what they were doing that they were enjoying.
> ...


This is what I was trying to say, but put much more eloquently!


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## sbonnett76 (Apr 6, 2010)

dandogman said:


> I will do that!
> 
> ETA: Pippa's number one love is other dogs, how do I turn this into a reward?


I have the exact same problem, although it's not always love (Roxy becomes a classroom bully with smaller dogs)! Because of that, we always have to be one step ahead of her. That said, I'd be lying if I said we had never had a situation whereby we too were too late with her recall and that was our mistake. When that has happened, we have apologised to the other owner, discussed our error for most of the rest of the walk, felt embarrassed and rectified our actions. Touch wood, we haven't had a negative situation for a while.

When we got Roxy (at 2 1/2) over a year ago, she had zero recall. We spent a lot of time building our bond with her and ensuring that we are more fun and more interesting than other dogs. We've taught her the watch command and go to weekly socialisation classes. In a couple of weeks, we're starting agility classes.

Unfortunately, Roxy has no interest in toys, but if your dog does, you can use those as part of your training. Another thing you could try if you can rope in another person, head to your football pitch and stand about 10-20 feet apart. One of you calls her, she arrives, sits and is rewarded. Then the other person calls her and follows the same process. Roxy LOVES playing this game of running between me and my husband and it's reinforcing recall without trying too hard.

My personal opinion on all of this is two fold. I think you were too quick to call the other owner irresponsible when, to be fair, her dog was under control (whether its reaction was aggressive or not) and yours wasn't. I'm not criticising you because as I've already owned up to, my dog has been far from perfect in the past and we have had similar encounters. But, you hope that people with dogs who have their problems may be more observant to potentially volatile situations, as we are with Roxy. That's not to say that occasions like this won't continue to happen. By accepting that you could have done better with your dog and working to prevent her bombing off in the future means that you're doing your bit. Maybe this other lady has also learnt a lesson and next time will wait or give a shout out. No dog is perfect and no owner is perfect. If they were, we'd have nothing to talk about! 

Good luck with the ongoing training!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

JTHolt said:


> It is very easy to come down on someone about their recall but everyone has their off days and their dog is not interested in listening to them.
> 
> Two sides to every story


I don't think anyone would have 'come down' on 'dan' had he not 'come down' on the other owner. He says he didn't see her in time to recall Pippa but gives her no lee way when if he didn't see her how was she supposed to see him? Hmm... doesn't quite add up! 

As Sleeping Lion rightly stated with her  for what reason is beyond me - I have spent years avoiding places like parks & fields where off lead dogs are and why is that? It's because many owners with off lead dogs think it's their God given right to let them run up to all and sundry, never giving a second thought about why the dog is leashed in the first place. I've been on pf long enough to know that some owners are [email protected] with their off lead dogs and for that reason I never give them the opportunity to spoil my walks, at least I try not to!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

If the words "be more interesting than..." make you want to reach down someones throat and rip their insides out then definitely look into the Premack principle. Sometimes it's just not possible to be more interesting than a rotting hedgehog crawling with maggots or that pile of horse poo, humbling as that may be


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

Malmum said:


> I don't think anyone would have 'come down' on 'dan' had he not 'come down' on the other owner. He says he didn't see her in time to recall Pippa but gives her no lee way when if he didn't see her how was she supposed to see him? Hmm... doesn't quite add up!
> 
> As Sleeping Lion rightly stated with her  for what reason is beyond me - I have spent years avoiding places like parks & fields where off lead dogs are and why is that? It's because many owners with off lead dogs think it's their God given right to let them run up to all and sundry, never giving a second thought about why the dog is leashed in the first place. I've been on pf long enough to know that some owners are [email protected] with their off lead dogs and for that reason I never give them the opportunity to spoil my walks, at least I try not to!


Possibly not but I think also what riled PF members is using the word 'irresponsible' when most of us on here try our damndest not to be 

I agree it is bliddy annoying when people assume it is their right to let their dogs come right up to you and your dog and to me, personally, that is total ignorance on their behalf of failing to 'read' the situation - ie; that dog is on a lead and must be a reason' - It doesn't compute with them


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

JTHolt said:


> Possibly not but I think also what riled PF members is using the word 'irresponsible' when most of us on here try our damndest not to be
> 
> I agree it is bliddy annoying when people assume it is their right to let their dogs come right up to you and your dog and to me, personally, that is total ignorance on their behalf of failing to 'read' the situation - ie; that dog is on a lead and must be a reason' - It doesn't compute with them


To be fair, who of us haven't used an inappropriate word when we're wound up. I don't agree with what he said to start with, but give Dan some credit, now he's calmed down, he's actually just trying to work out how he can improve his training methods to prevent it happening again. Which I think is a very healthy attitude to the situation.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

sarah1983 said:


> if the words "be more interesting than..." make you want to reach down someones throat and rip their insides out then definitely look into the premack principle. Sometimes it's just not possible to be more interesting than a rotting hedgehog crawling with maggots or that pile of horse poo, humbling as that may be


lol lol lol lol lol lol


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

Pet Services Kent said:


> To be fair, who of us haven't used an inappropriate word when we're wound up. I don't agree with what he said to start with, but *give Dan some credit, now he's calmed down, he's actually just trying to work out how he can improve his training methods to prevent it happening again. Which I think is a very healthy attitude to the situation*.


I agree, we do tend to use probably not the correct word or phrase but like you say, when we are trying to get our point across before calming down, it is very easy to do so which can then be misconstrued.

This is the case with forums like these, once you have posted your thread, it is not possible to go back to it and re-word it 

Please do not think I am being patronising but I have noticed that the OP is keen to take the advice on board and wish him well


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

With regards to using a long line, I am really cack handed but with perseverance I managed to use a long line to good effect. I used to practice in the garden pulling it in..


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> If the words "be more interesting than..." make you want to reach down someones throat and rip their insides out then definitely look into the Premack principle. Sometimes it's just not possible to be more interesting than a rotting hedgehog crawling with maggots or that pile of horse poo, humbling as that may be


Love this :lol: :lol:

I would have to immerse myself in a bath of fox excrement, run around with a dead rabbit on my head whilst waving some rotten entrails in the air and squeaking a toy in my mouth to make myself 'interesting' enough for Lily !!!


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Love this :lol: :lol:
> 
> I would have immerse myself in a bath of fox excrement, run around with a dead rabbit on my head whilst waving some rotten entrails in the air and squeaking a toy in my mouth to make myself 'interesting' enough for Lily !!!


Please demonstrate method mentioned above and video. I think we could all learn something from watching this technique in action!:lol:


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Pet Services Kent said:


> Please demonstrate method mentioned above and video. I think we could all learn something from watching this technique in action!:lol:


Only if you all promise to try it for yourselves too


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Only if you all promise to try it for yourselves too


Careful- you could be starting a new training fad! It would be an altogether more disturbing thread than the recent ~"Leave" threads. I'll tell you what, you show me exactly how to do it and I'll give it a go. I'll need to borrow a dog with an iffy recall though, as that's one problem I really don't have with my "velcro" dogs!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Love this :lol: :lol:
> 
> I would have immerse myself in a bath of fox excrement, run around with a dead rabbit on my head whilst waving some rotten entrails in the air and squeaking a toy in my mouth to make myself 'interesting' enough for Lily !!!


Lol, it got to the point with me where if someone had said those words to me in person I would have been done for murder. The only bloody advice I had for ages with Rupert was "be more interesting" "make yourself more interesting", "you need to be the most exciting thing in the world" and quite frankly, it wasn't going to happen in a million years! I think it's actually why I love Control Unleashed so much, because she tells you it's okay if your dog finds other things more interesting, it doesn't mean you're failure and it doesn't mean you'll never get anywhere with him.


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

Pet Services Kent said:


> Careful- you could be starting a new training fad! It would be an altogether more disturbing thread than the recent ~"Leave" threads. I'll tell you what, you show me exactly how to do it and I'll give it a go. I'll need to borrow a dog with an iffy recall though, as that's one problem I really don't have with my "velcro" dogs!


Drat! If this thread occurred about three months ago when my younger Springer's recall was iffy, I'd have volunteered her straightaway!! 

Velcro dogs eh? Walking must be difficult then!!


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

JTHolt said:


> Drat! If this thread occurred about three months ago when my younger Springer's recall was iffy, I'd have volunteered her straightaway!!
> 
> Velcro dogs eh? Walking must be difficult then!!


Don;t worry I'm not being smug- we have plenty of other issues  TBH Bailey's such a fraidy-cat, that although he will go off and enjoy a run, he does have to check where mummy is every 30 seconds- 1 minute. I think Olly has just tagged along with him so far- I do work hard on his recall though as I'm expecting a teenage nightmare stage to kick in very soon!


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

Pet Services Kent said:


> Don;t worry I'm not being smug- we have plenty of other issues  TBH Bailey's such a fraidy-cat, that although he will go off and enjoy a run, he does have to check where mummy is every 30 seconds- 1 minute. I think Olly has just tagged along with him so far- I do work hard on his recall though as I'm expecting a teenage nightmare stage to kick in very soon!


It never crossed my mind you were being smug 

I did wish at times that I had velcro with me with Coco (the younger one) but that would be lazy!! 

I say this often to myself 'Patience and Perseverance' and I am more than happy with Coco's recall now after working on it but on Friday just gone, I had an off day with BOTH my dogs recall 

I'd arranged to meet a friend for a walk and was waiting a good distance away from the car park - my friend knows why. Well, that was it, they saw my friend's car and they were off to greet their friend - a Norfolk Terrier called Molly! 
That was my fault totally - this numpty should have put their leads on!! 

Ah well, lesson learnt for me


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

ouesi said:


> There is no reason why play with other dogs can't be used as a reward when appropriate.
> Often I see a lot of owners recall their dogs to leave the park, to end play, to put them on leash, to get in the car and leave the fun, to come inside so the owner can leave for the day.... Before you know it, these smart dogs stop recalling well because they're thinking "no way! Every time I come, the fun stops!"
> 
> So definitely, as often as possible, whenever appropriate, the "reward" for recall should be that the dog gets to go back to what they were doing that they were enjoying.
> ...


I have read that article. I am still not really sure how it works... am I being thick? Could someone explain it for me?


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Its ironic as I was thinking of doing a thread on recall today.

I kind of sit on the fence. I think Dan you were in the wrong for not been able to recall Pippa, that said I don't think I could recall Nala in that situation, but we are working on it.

But if i had been walking in with Lexi she would have gone mad. My dog is not aggressive and I would hazzard a guess I ahve more control over her than you do Pippa as her recall is good, so the statement you have more control over your dog than she does because its barking growling lunging, peed me off a bit. Did you ever stop and think WHY her dog reacts like that, maybe it was like moonviolets Tink and has been mauled by another dog, or like Malmums Flynn who has spent so long under house arrest because of bad hips that he is a DINO or maybe the dog is like Lexi who spends so mcuh of her life ill she doesn't want to be bothered by strange dogs, at the mo, her 4 feet have open blisters, an ongoing ear infection and a limp caused by the cold and her bad hip....now if that was you and you saw a large dog running towards you how would you react?? You shout and scream and tell it to get the hell away from you, but Lexi is a staffie so she jsut gets labelled a dangerous dog!

Anyway my question on recall I'll ask here Dan if you don't mind. A lot of people say you shouldn't let you dog off lead until you have a realiable recall, so what do you call reliable, Nala is very good, today she failed (ish) on the field we walk at the very far end there are horses tethered, I never go enar enough and she has never shown any interest, however today for some reason she set off towards them at full pelt, recall was pointless so i turned and ran in the opposite direction squealling, she thought is was an amazing game abandoned the horse persuit and came hareing back. If that had been a dog, I don't think she would have come back. So bearing in mind I might see one other dog walker a week, do I keep my pup on lead at all times jsut in case, or do I continue to let her off and keep working on the recall which i do every walk anyway? At what point is your dog considered 'safe' enough to let off lead?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

LexiLou2 said:


> At what point is your dog considered 'safe' enough to let off lead?


This is one I struggle with too. I think there's only so far you can get with a long line and at some point you've got to take the plunge and lose it. Spencers recall is good most of the time so I let him off leash in places we don't usually encounter many dogs or where I can see a dog before it gets close enough that he can't resist running up to it. I keep plugging away at recall, both on the long line and off leash, out and about and at home and hopefully one day we'll get there and he'll be reliable around heavy distractions. In the meantime I make the call as to whether he'll be off leash or on a line on a day to day basis and depending on where we are.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Well, well, well, just my kinda topic.
Funnily enough, LexiLou2 and I were chatting about this very same thing on FB earlier. 

First of all, I'd say not picking up poop is irresponsible. We all agree on that. 

Secondly, Dan, I think it is irresponsible to let your dog run up to an onlead dog, although it sounds like there were mistakes on both sides. 
Actually, a very similar thing happened to us today, although not with a dog that was a bit dodgy. Terence saw a dog in the distance and made a beeline for it. I tried to call him and he didn't come back. Was it the other owner's fault? Hell no! MY fault, completely. I wasn't paying enough attention (was chatting to my mate) and Terence did a bunk. MY fault. Wanna know the really frustrating bit? His recall up to then during that walk was good. Really good, in fact. He turned on a sixpence several times during that walk, once recalling away from a dog that he had previously played with, picked up his treat (really old cheese and some haggis  ) and went off to play again. 
His recall is pretty good now in general, actually. I'd say 90%, but it's been horrendously hard work to get to this stage and we are still working on it every day. It's no use saying that to the other owner though, is it, when they've been mithered on their walk by my over-friendly Staffie! On the odd occasion where Terence spots a dog before me and I cannot recall him, it's no use saying "oh, he's friendly, he's only playing". It's still 4 stone of unknown dog flying towards somebody at full speed. It doesn't happen often (thank god) and most people are amused by Terence's enthusiasm (thank god, again!), but rest assured, after every single episode of a failed recall, I really up my game with him and I feel awful for ages after.
So, I guess what I am trying to say, in a really roundabout way, 100% recall maybe isn't achievable realistically, but I am sure as hell going to give it my best shot. :yesnod:
PS: Had some vino, so apologies if I am not making much sense.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2013)

dandogman said:


> I have read that article. I am still not really sure how it works... am I being thick? Could someone explain it for me?


Premack Principle is basically using more likely behaviors (running off to play with other dogs) to build up behaviors that are less likely (coming to you when called). 
If you pair "come to me" with "run play with other dogs" it makes "come to me" a stronger behavior. 
Another way of thinking about it is that most dogs see us as an obstacle to the fun they want to go have. Pippa may be thinking, "if I can get past dad I can go play with that dog." You're going to change that to "if I do something dad wants, he'll let me do something I want." That's premack.


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