# Illusion dog collar



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Has anyone used this collar?

I have been doing some research on no pull halti's and collars and wondered which you would recommend? One of my clients was asking me about the illusion dog collar as recommended by Cesar Millan, so all thoughts appreciated 

I am mindful however, that Cesar is not that popular on this forum, so his training aids are unlikey to be either


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

A friend on another forum has one she had it sent from USA and swears by it , its just like a double collar the highest point up high on the neck , she was going to get me two till i saw the price and i gave them a miss they are very dear and not sure you can get them here or you couldnt a few mths ago.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2008)

I wouldn't use or recommend one purely because it's going to line that prats pockets, no idea whether they are any good or not. I wouldn't use a halti either though, I'd much rather put a bit of effort in and train them to walk to heel without all that cack.


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Sorry to sound daft but what is an illusion collar?


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2008)

vizzy24 said:


> Sorry to sound daft but what is an illusion collar?


Cesar Millan - Illusion Dog Collar & Leash Set


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

I like my k9 bridle


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

ajshep1984 said:


> I wouldn't use or recommend one purely because it's going to line that prats pockets, no idea whether they are any good or not. I wouldn't use a halti either though, I'd much rather put a bit of effort in and train them to walk to heel without all that cack.


I agree Alan, but there are a lot of people out there who do not take their dog training, nor teach them to walk to heel.

I have heard great reports about the illusion collar, but then I have heard some really positive reports about the no pull halter, and they have been short of useless!


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2008)

I only use normal collars and have no experience of these other types of collars designed for owners who cannot be bothered to train their dog correctly.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Ah, but what do you call a normal collar?


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Ah, but what do you call a normal collar?


Not one with prongs on it thats for sure!


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

We Use A Harness For Jasper One Which You Clip The Lead Onto The Front Of It .. And With It He Walks To Heel 

We Used A Halti Before But Im Glad That We Found This Harness Because With The Halti People Used To Think It Was A Muzzle  

Honestly We Have Tried Many Things With Jasper And Have Taken Him To Different Training Classes .. Even Went To A Few Private Lessons .. He Pulls Like A Sled Dog ! 

Anyone Wanna Fly Over And Teach Him To Walk Nicely ! ? - I Would Appreciate It!


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Anyone Wanna Fly Over And Teach Him To Walk Nicely ! ? - I Would Appreciate It!


If you're paying.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Ah, but what do you call a normal collar?


plain with buckle


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## sammi3664uk (May 18, 2009)

Can i ask why people ain't keen on Cesar Millan? I personally thought he's very good watching him on tv.

I have a boxer and nothing stops her pulling if she see's something i've been training her since she was 12 weeks old and took her to training classes and the trainer didn't really have a clue what to do. 

recently i have been using a rope lead that kinda works like a choke chain and it sits right under her chin and that seems to work untill it slips down. Then i see this new coller by Cesar Millan and it looks like just what i need.


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## alphadog (Jan 29, 2009)

It's easy to say that you would rather put the time and effort into training the dog not to pull, and on the whole I agree, but if you are unlucky and take on a dog who already has an engrained desire to pull, a training aid may provide you with the break through you need. 

I would like to try the Illusion collar on my Collie who has a morbid fear of traffic and needs calm, firm handling near roads - I think one of these collars would free up my other hand in order to click and reinforce relaxed behaviour. I've tried using a slip lead around the high part of the neck (like the Illusion) but she wriggles around so much it always comes loose and slips down, or off . 

In principle I think this collar is a good idea, but only as a training aid. I wouldn't like to see one used as a permanent fixture, and I would be mindful of neck damage. I've not been able to find a UK supplier yet, so I think your client may have to do some online shopping from the US


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

AJ said:


> I wouldn't use or recommend one purely because it's going to line that prats pockets, no idea whether they are any good or not. I wouldn't use a halti either though, I'd much rather put a bit of effort in and train them to walk to heel without all that cack.


There's no need to line that prat's pocket. It should be quite easy to make up that sort of collar out of 2 normal collars with some stiffened webbing to keep them at the right distance apart.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

mrsdusty said:


> I only use normal collars and have no experience of these other types of collars designed for owners who cannot be bothered to train their dog correctly.


Here Here!


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

I have the illusion coller and they are very good. Because it sits up so high on the neck, they cannot pull. You do have to be careful because it would be very easy to choke the dog and hurt it. These collers are designed to to give an easier correction to the handler, with a lot less intensity. The problem with normal collers is that they sit at the strongest part of the neck, so if you do have a puller then it doesn't make it easy.

I recommend it x


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Ive tried all the training and haltis ,harness and he still pulls, given up


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Ive tried all the training and haltis ,harness and he still pulls, given up


Get a sledge or some rollerskates.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Get a sledge or some rollerskates.


Got ski's for when its icy.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

I have heard they are brilliant ..would not mind getting one myself for Ozzy, i have tried halti, non pull harness , the harness that you fasten at the front and the back, cannot remember the name, nothing works with him, i cannot use a normal collar with a buckle as their neck is bigger than their head...Anyone want to take him on for a few days and you will see what i meanStrong..............wow

juliex


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Got ski's for when its icy.


Could get a cart and have some help with the weekly shopping.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> I have the illusion coller and they are very good. Because it sits up so high on the neck, they cannot pull.


A gundog slip lead will have exactly the same effect at a fraction of the price and without all the hype attached.


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

AJ said:


> I wouldn't use or recommend one purely because it's going to line that prats pockets, no idea whether they are any good or not. I wouldn't use a halti either though, I'd much rather put a bit of effort in and train them to walk to heel without all that cack.


I agree with you.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Could get a cart and have some help with the weekly shopping.


Hey, never thought of that


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

illusion collars put too much pressure on the upper part of the neck for my liking as it is more sensative and can be painful, haltis headcollars can be good but if a dog suddenly bolts or the owner pulls it can jerk the neck and casue damage. i have a halti harness and just attatch the lead to the chest at the front, then when the dog pulls it spins round so it cant go anywhere. and if it bolts it doesnt risk damage to the neck.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

i actually find a normal harness and a short lead is best if you have a puller, the rope lead works, yes, but, my arm is aching afterwards if i use this with Ozzy.............. why oh why are two dogs so different Mavis is lovely, Ozzy well..........................

julirx


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## mickandkerry (Aug 27, 2009)

cassie01 said:


> illusion collars put too much pressure on the upper part of the neck for my liking as it is more sensative and can be painful, haltis headcollars can be good but if a dog suddenly bolts or the owner pulls it can jerk the neck and casue damage. i have a halti harness and just attatch the lead to the chest at the front, then when the dog pulls it spins round so it cant go anywhere. and if it bolts it doesnt risk damage to the neck.


Isnt that part of the idea that the pressure they feel when they pull will make them think twice about pulling again and if your dog wants to bolt all the time then your not being interesting enough for it to want to be with you. Wouldnt mind giving one a go myself and all those anti cesar people out there im sure if he came to you and helped your dogs you would be eating yor bad words about him, He is great and has a natural way with dogs.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Exactly they are strongly aversive  That part of the dog's neck is _very_ sensitive and this collar causes pain. That is why you will see dogs walking with that stilted neck position when walking - pain 

Friends of mine, who run a dog training company and daycare bought one (we sample all new training equipment before advising on them) and decided to put it on a dog just to fit it.
Let me clear here, there was no leash attached and the dog was not under any duress. He was lured into the collar and this is a healthy, confident, laid back young Lab male who is phased by nothing - well socialised and was chosen becuase of his bullet-proof personality.
When the collar was positioned in the 'correct' position the dog urinated - yes the stress of wearing a collar on this area of the neck was so distressing and worrying for this guy that he p****d himself :frown::eek6:

From a behavioural point of view, this dog who modelled it for us is not habituated to having collars positioned high and firm like this as he wears a flat collar and front leading harness for walking so there is that issue to consider. And obviously this is a small sample BUT the design of these collars is such that they are painful and highly aversive.

Apart from causing the dog great pain and discomfort (its just lucky that most dogs find walkies more highly rewarding otherwise we would be seeing a hell of a lot more fallout from these) but because dogs are so sensitive to these collars they will be very difficult to wean off them. 
So you might say they are training tool but how much learning is going on? The dog is walking in position and if owners are not bothered to train their dogs they are not going to train them while wearing this tool as the results *seem* sooooooo great. The dog will have to endure the continued use of this strong aversive without learning anything about changing behaviour - this is the definition of abuse btw 

This has nothing to do with the personality attached to them - this is a piece of training equipment that, like all the others I sample and examine and evaluate before saying yes or no. And I say a big fat NO to this one.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

mickandkerry said:


> Isnt that part of the idea that the pressure they feel when they pull will make them think twice about pulling again and if your dog wants to bolt all the time then your not being interesting enough for it to want to be with you. Wouldnt mind giving one a go myself and all those anti cesar people out there im sure if he came to you and helped your dogs you would be eating yor bad words about him, He is great and has a natural way with dogs.


Why would he have to come to me to help me with my dog?  If I were having problems I would go to a proper trainer/behaviourist who knew what they were talking about and who was familiar with the many HUMANE ways to train a dog to walk nicely on lead.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

tripod said:


> Exactly they are strongly aversive  That part of the dog's neck is _very_ sensitive and this collar causes pain. That is why you will see dogs walking with that stilted neck position when walking - pain
> 
> Friends of mine, who run a dog training company and daycare bought one (we sample all new training equipment before advising on them) and decided to put it on a dog just to fit it.
> Let me clear here, there was no leash attached and the dog was not under any duress. He was lured into the collar and this is a healthy, confident, laid back young Lab male who is phased by nothing - well socialised and was chosen becuase of his bullet-proof personality.
> When the collar was positioned in the 'correct' position the dog urinated - yes the stress of wearing a collar on this area of the neck was so distressing and worrying for this guy that he p****d himself :frown::eek6:


Thanks for that frank review of this 'training' collar. You are spot on that having a collar so high up on a dogs neck will cause it pain.  That then gives the 'illusion' that the dog is behaving. (Yes I know the collar is meant to be named after CMs' wife but how handy was it that she had that descriptive name to lend to it!)



Colliepoodle said:


> Why would he have to come to me to help me with my dog?  If I were having problems I would go to a proper trainer/behaviourist who knew what they were talking about and who was familiar with the many HUMANE ways to train a dog to walk nicely on lead.


Me too.  I certainly would not have anyone help me with my dogs who did not even have a basic knowledge of canine behaviour!


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## kaisa624 (Mar 5, 2010)

sammi3664uk said:


> recently i have been using a rope lead that kinda works like a choke chain and it sits right under her chin and that seems to work untill it slips down.


Can I ask how old your dog is? As far as I know you shouldn't use a slip lead until your dog is 12 - 18 months old (in otherwords, fully grown).

Apart from showing, unless you use a half check. We have a half check show lead, but thats only for the 10 mins in the ring and that's it.


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## Emmily (Mar 22, 2010)

Apparently, the illusion collar was designed by CM's wife...

Illusion Dog Training Collar

Near the bottom of the page it states - "Allowing a dog to pull in front while on a walk is not recommeded, as it reinforces to a dog that he is YOUR pack leader" :lol::lol::lol:

(Jeez, I'm slow, sorry was only up to post 31 when I started typing this post...)


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Emmily said:


> Apparently, the illusion collar was designed by CM's wife...
> 
> Illusion Dog Training Collar
> 
> Near the bottom of the page it states - "Allowing a dog to pull in front while on a walk is not recommeded, as it reinforces to a dog that he is YOUR pack leader" :lol::lol::lol:


LOL! What about sled dogs and Guide Dogs then? Are they all dominating their owners?
:001_cool:


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## ArwenLune (Jan 3, 2010)

CarolineH said:


> LOL! What about sled dogs and Guide Dogs then? Are they all dominating their owners?
> :001_cool:


Of course! They're closer to wolves, right?


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## Deb (Jan 28, 2009)

mrsdusty said:


> I only use normal collars and have no experience of these other types of collars designed for owners who cannot be bothered to train their dog correctly.


I have a 16mth old collie that i have spent hours and hours trying to train to heel. I have taken her to classes and also seen 2 1-2-1 trainers. I think it is a bit unfair to assume that owners use aides because they are lazy. I pulled my back with Cassie pulling and was off sick from work and am really frightened of it happening again. I have put a lot of time and effort into her training to little avail. Please do not judge everyone the same


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## ArwenLune (Jan 3, 2010)

As a FYI, this topic is several years old.

Also, nice link for this topic: YouTube - CIA Casefile: 'Murphy' Heeling


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## Inkdog (Dec 5, 2009)

Deb said:


> I have a 16mth old collie that i have spent hours and hours trying to train to heel. I have taken her to classes and also seen 2 1-2-1 trainers. I think it is a bit unfair to assume that owners use aides because they are lazy. I pulled my back with Cassie pulling and was off sick from work and am really frightened of it happening again. I have put a lot of time and effort into her training to little avail. Please do not judge everyone the same


Hey, Deb, how're you getting along?! Did you try the Mekuti? Did it help?

I hope that Cassie's being good


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## Emmily (Mar 22, 2010)

ArwenLune said:


> As a FYI, this topic is several years old.


Ah, yes, so it is, well, a couple of years, 1st post - 13-09-2008, 04:10 PM

How long is CM been around, too long I'll bet


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## Deb (Jan 28, 2009)

Inkdog said:


> Hey, Deb, how're you getting along?! Did you try the Mekuti? Did it help?
> 
> I hope that Cassie's being good


Saw a post that showed the slip lead used as a figure of eight so tried that first and it is working really well so far. She doesnt like it (but didnt like the halti or canny collar either) but at least she cant wrench my arm off!! Thanks for asking


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## Inkdog (Dec 5, 2009)

Deb said:


> Saw a post that showed the slip lead used as a figure of eight so tried that first and it is working really well so far. She doesnt like it (but didnt like the halti or canny collar either) but at least she cant wrench my arm off!! Thanks for asking


Signs of progress - yay! :thumbup:

I hope that it's just the start & that you have many enjoyable walks ahead of you.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

> Note: this collar is not recommended for dogs who's neck measures less than 13 inches at the base, or weighs less than 18 lbs. Dogs with any breathing problems, such as "pushed-in faces" that restrict breathing; dogs with trachea or throat problems, such as Pomeranians; and dogs with elongated, overly slender necks, such as Greyhounds, should NOT use the collar. The collar was also not intended for dogs under the age of one.


I think if a piece of "training" equipment has to come with such a warning even with correct use it should set the alarm bells ringing, no?
Does this sound like something that will improve the enjoyment of walks in what should be a partnership?

The only thing I can say for it, is that because it is so painful jerks are minimal and therefore damage is less likely. But unlike prong collars this collar is not a limited slip so careless use is likely 

Those lucky Boxers going from a choke chain to this - calls to mind the saying "from the frying pan into the flames":frown:....well at least nobody will be reinforcing the idea that THEY are pack leaders :crazy:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

tripod said:


> ...this is a piece of training equipment that, like all the others I sample and examine and evaluate before saying yes or no. And I say a big fat NO to this one.


hey, tripod! :--) 
i have not *tried* one and will not - as i find the Name of the Collar to be highly descriptive, IMO. 
it gives an Illusion of being benign, simple, safe, etc, but underneath the more-obvious view, 
theres a thin SLIP-lead (along with the web-collar material, which is flat + wider)... its a *covert* version of a fabric-choke. 
Pet Fabulous - Nylon Slip Collar (Powered by CubeCart)

the >narrower< the collar + the higher it is worn, the more potential for injury - 
and the more intense the discomfort if the collar is constantly under tension, too, 
becoming PAIN *imo* when the lead is no longer VISIBLE > on < the dog, but is now >> Under! << the dogs skin, 
sinking into the flesh + creating serious *pressure exerted over a narrow area*.

Raising a Puppy - Fortieth week in his new home 
this is a 10.5-MO Boxer, wearing his *Illusion collar* - *the skinny round cord* at the top, 
*where the leash attaches, is the REAL collar, i-e, point of control* - the rest is just the frame, 
like the frame of a picture, it holds the actual image - the WIDE part makes the impression, 
the >skinny< slip is what actually controls - by constricting the dogs neck.

the former 50-cent narrow kennel-slip-leads which CM/DW began with, when it was a 30-minute, 
NON-prime-time show, were at least up-front and truthful - this collar IMO gives an outward impression of simple restraint - 
which, again IMO, is ** highly misleading **.

if U would Not Use a narrow slip-lead or thin slip-collar that CLOSES to infinity, 
i would suggest giving this a w-i-d-e miss.

instead, gorgeous, SAFE *limited-slip* AKA *martingale collars* can do all the SAME things, 
Mrs Bones -Dog Collars - Leashes - Martingale Collars-Made in the USA 
without the potential for injury which i think is presented by ANY skinny slip-collar or lead. 
in the photo, only the dog in the **middle** is wearing his collar where it belongs - 
he is a gorgeous silver Standard Poodle, with a lovely temp, too. :001_tt1:

with the martingale adjusted to fit smooth, flat + SNUG, the wide collar presents no risk to airway or spine. 
i have used these collars on dogs over 100# and never had to worry - they are OVERBUILT, with solid-sandcast-brass 
hardware, and under the pretty Exterior and lined Interior is standard nylon webbing - practical + durable.

of course Mrs Bones is local to me...  i can walk into the shop, LOL, and drool over the latest! :lol: 
*full disclosure: 
i do not get a dime or any other consideration, financial or in kind - 
i have TEN-year-old Mrs-Bones collars that have been worn by dozens of dogs each, and they look great. 
i like well-made, practical, TRUSTWORTHY collars, so that i do not have ot worry about collar failures - 
breaking, rings Opening! , etc. *

U can get perfectly good martingale-collars from other sources - but not the range of WIDTHS, 
SIZES, and with the HARDWARE + WARRANTY offered by Mrs Bones. 
she does custom orders - i have gotten 24-inch size, Two-Inch wide collars for enormous dogs; 
they look great, they are guaranteed for life (except for wear), and they are *reliable*.

i cannot take chances with dogs who bolt, aggress, predate, etc - 
i need something that i feel *safe* with, so that i can relax + get on with the B-Mod or training.  
no illusions, here :lol: this is the real thing! :thumbup: safe + comfy...

all my best, 
--- terry


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

> the >narrower< the collar + the higher it is worn, the more potential for injury -
> and the more intense the discomfort if the collar is constantly under tension, too,
> becoming PAIN *imo* when the lead is no longer VISIBLE > on < the dog, but is now >> Under! << the dogs skin,
> sinking into the flesh + creating serious pressure exerted over a narrow area.


:thumbup: yup - higher, narrower = pain +++++



> Raising a Puppy - Fortieth week in his new home
> this is a 10.5-MO Boxer, wearing his *Illusion collar* - the skinny round cord at the top,
> where the leash attaches, is the REAL collar, i-e, point of control - the rest is just the frame,
> like the frame of a picture, it holds the actual image - the WIDE part makes the impression,
> the >skinny< slip is what actually controls - by constricting the dogs neck.


:scared: who is writing the stuff on this site - its so poorly written and what a load of hooey  really irresponsbile stuff

Am liking those collars Terry, wonder do they ship to Ireland


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

tripod said:


> Am liking those collars Terry, wonder do they ship to Ireland


ASK her if she has anything in stock, *on SALE*, in the sighthound style, *w/o metallic over-cast embroidery* - 
Mrs Bones -Dog Collars - Leashes - Martingale Collars-Made in the USA 
these are gorgeous, but the 1st time the dog scratches an itch, there are broken metallic threads  they get fuzzy with snapped metallics, after a lotta use. (those with metallics woven-in are more durable, but still do not last as long for looks as fabric-thread; metallic thread just breaks easier, :confused1: )

THIS -otoh- lasts a long, long time - 
Mrs Bones -Dog Collars - Leashes - Martingale Collars-Made in the USA :001_tt1:

she sometimes has Un-claimed custom orders, demonstration-stock, etc, or out-of-season patterns (Xmas, Hallowe'en, etc). 
+ tell her i told ya...  it may not be worth anything, but it cannot hurt, either. 
the owners name is *mary*, her partner is *anne*, both very nice, helpful folks.

*anne is the regional head of Havanese resQ - 
*mary has IGs, a rescued Chi, and a beloved Frenchie with a gargoyle smile. 

have fun, i hope they have some sale-items... 
--- terry


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## Mr Collie (May 15, 2010)

Hi All

There are rumours around the flyball circuit that somebody has created an illusion type collar and will be available in this country shortly. reports are sketchy at the moment but early indications is that it works on the same principal as the illusion collar but is a lot kinder to the dog. when i found out more i will let you know.


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## London Dogwalker (Oct 27, 2009)

Mr Collie said:


> Hi All
> 
> There are rumours around the flyball circuit that somebody has created an illusion type collar and will be available in this country shortly. reports are sketchy at the moment but *early indications is that it works on the same principal as the illusion collar but is a lot kinder to the dog. *when i found out more i will let you know.


How does that work then?! 

If there is no pain then it's just a flat collar, if it's a choke nylon then it's painful there is no middle ground with positive punishment, if it doesn't hurt a lot then it's not an effective way of conditioning.

I would hate to see something like this used in Flyball  Is there no restriction on what collars competitiors can put their dogs out wearing?


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## Mr Collie (May 15, 2010)

London Dogwalker said:


> How does that work then?!
> 
> If there is no pain then it's just a flat collar, if it's a choke nylon then it's painful there is no middle ground with positive punishment, if it doesn't hurt a lot then it's not an effective way of conditioning.
> 
> I would hate to see something like this used in Flyball  Is there no restriction on what collars competitiors can put their dogs out wearing?


hi 
i not entily sure how it works at the moment but i am competing this weekend and if i found out more i will let you know.

perhaps you misread me, the guy who designed the new collar competes in flyball competions like many other people up and down the country. many fly ball dogs wear a harness which is the only suitable equipment for the sport.i have not ever seen an illusuion collar at any competions and i have been competing for a number of years now.


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## emily.johnson (May 25, 2010)

hmm, i've seen that on his show, but i dont really agree with it. because he even says himself, that he can work with any tool that he is given, so why would he need and illusion dog collar?? i think they not only look uncomfortable,but not nice.
I wouldnt ever put my pup in that. not even for training. but each to their own i guess.
x


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

It looks ridiculous anyway, a harness on a neck? It's a poor dog trainer who recommends that sort of device and an ignorant lazy owner who uses one.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Are we talking about the CM style illusion collar (don't think there is any other type). 

I'll put it like this to save me alot of typing:

I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole!

Hideous thing. I feel sorry for any dog that has one of these horrible contraptions inflicted on their necks.


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## Montys_Mum (Jun 4, 2010)

mrsdusty said:


> I only use normal collars and have no experience of these other types of collars designed for owners who cannot be bothered to train their dog correctly.


Be fair, even with training some dogs still pull and owners need assistance. (Especially those of use that aren't expert trainers  )

We use a halti stop pull harness, because Monty tends to lunge forward to people and dogs, to go and play (he is still an excitable puppy), and I hated him lunging on his neck collar as I didn't want him to be hurt.

The harness works well, in that I can control him much better. He is 50/50 walker, sometimes great, sometimes bad. We do practice walk training with him and things are great...sometimes 

He's due to go into training classes soon to help us too 

NB I took a look at the illusion dog collar, I doubt it'd be good for Monty due to the build of a basset hound, but perhaps for the right dog it'd be good, but I have to say I didn't like the look of it.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

There are already headcollars and no-pull design harnesses for dogs who pull (and owners who want to relax more on walks) so no need for these neck contraptions that are designed for maximum control through discomfort.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

CarolineH said:


> There are already headcollars and no-pull design harnesses for dogs who pull (and owners who want to relax more on walks) so no need for these neck contraptions that are designed for maximum control through discomfort.


I agree 100%. Rep on way. 
The illusion collar is designed to inflict pain and therefore cause an avoidant response: it hurts the dog to pull so the dog stops pulling.

However in many dogs a combination of this pain and a state of confusion where they do not know how to walk on the lead as well as environmental factors (such as another dog across the street) which cues them to pull as it is a behaviour that has previously been reinforced (they get to meet the other dog quicker), may means that the dog still pulls and does so to a worse extent and experiences the pain as a result.

IMO there is no need for this horrible contraption!
Train your dog with intelligence, not pain and brute force!!!


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## Mr Collie (May 15, 2010)

I have now seen the finished collar and it looks a useful bit of kit. It is a more humane collar compared with the illusion collar. It works in a similar principle by holding a second collar just behind the ears. The designer has used a limited slip collar so it will not overtighten but best of all it can be adjusted to work as a normal collar thus no pain is excerted on the dog. I have seen it in action and the particular dog stop pulling on the lead, was more controllable and it did not have any adverse reaction to wearing it. The new collar is called "wonder collar" and their website can be found The Wonder Collar - control and train your dog the easy way


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Sorry but I'm not impressed - aside from being a limited slip rather than unlimted, it is identical to the Illusion collar.
Exactly the same aversive (painful) principle is used - a constricting force on the most sensitive part of the dogs neck.


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

mrsdusty said:


> I only use normal collars and have no experience of these other types of collars designed for owners who cannot be bothered to train their dog correctly.


In regards to you above comment, some owners dont get chance to train their dogs properly...asin start at a young age! 
We got out dog from a rescue center when she was 13 months old, at 15 months were still trying to get 'walk to heel' sorted. We must have tried every type of collar etc on the market but have found that she most respects a rope choke chain the most.

i understand where your coming from in that if people trained their dogs properly then all these contraptions wouldnt be needed...however sometimes training from a young age is something entirely out of people hands!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

JJAK said:


> We got our dog from a rescue center when she was 13 months old, (and) at 15 months were still trying to get 'walk to heel' sorted.


hey, jak! :--) 
i would bet that U actually mean Loose-Leash Walking, abbreviated LLW - 
a formal *heel* as in obedience competition is rarely needed by pet-dogs, just walk without pulling. 

BTW - do U use a Flexi or any extendable lead? :huh: just wondering, as they both teach + reward *pulling*, 
since they are spring-loaded + the dog must pull to get leash out - and the more leash is out, the TIGHTER 
the spring becomes, and the harder the dog must pull. 


JJAK said:


> We must have tried every type of collar etc on the market but have found that she most respects a rope choke chain the most.


i am guessing that U mean a *slip collar*? 
like a choke-chain it closes to infinity - IOW the end can be drawn right thru the other ring to make it a straight line, 
with a ring at either-end, but to be used on the dog, the fabric is slipped into an end-ring to make a circle, and put 
over the dogs head?

other than not being metal-links, which can pull hair out, pinch skin between links, etc, its the same as a choke. 
a FRONT-clip H-harness is a more humane + effective control - 
if or when the dog pulls, if U simply stand still, their own momentum will bring them around, eventually 
to stand facing U, wondering how that! happened...  U can also use gentle traction _*sideways...*_ to bring the 
dog around for an emergency-U-turn without jerking, brute force, or any constriction of the dogs airway.

any well-made H-harness that fits the dog properly - snug + smooth, without slipping around sideways, 
and WITHOUT buckles getting in the dogs armpit where they can chafe or pinch, will do fine - 
it just has to have a ** ring ** on the forechest, which joins the straps together - the 2 over the shoulders, 
and the one that goes between the forelegs to the heart-girth.

clip the (SIX-foot) leash (or LONG-line - *No Flexis!*) to the front-clip, and go! :thumbup: 
cheers, 
--- terry


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> hey, jak! :--)
> i would bet that U actually mean Loose-Leash Walking, abbreviated LLW -
> a formal *heel* as in obedience competition is rarely needed by pet-dogs, just walk without pulling.
> 
> ...


Firstly you dont need to speak to me like im completely thick!

secondly i fully understand that a 'heel' is not needed for pet dogs but as were hoping to go into agility training with her wed like to give her solid foundations to begin on.

thirdly we have tried your H harness and she turns in to what looks like a ravid animal, pushes all her weight into it and runs from behind which i think we will both agree is not good for the dog.

yes, ok i mean a 'slip collar' im going by what it said on the tag when i brought it. and she is on a standard clip lead, none of this flexi lead malarki, and when she is put on a 'longer lead' it happened to be a lunge line from my horses for when we were practasing recall in an open space.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

JJAK said:


> Firstly you dont need to speak to me like im completely thick!


sorry, jak - :blink: i did not know that i was.  


JJAK said:


> ...(in an) H harness... she turns in to what looks like a ravid animal, pushes all her weight into it and runs from behind
> which i think we will both agree is not good for the dog.


dogs are always *running from behind* - the rear legs are the engine, the front-legs weight-bear 
and help to steer  just like horses, dogs do not literally *pull* a cart, handler, bike, etc - 
they push them forward.

was the leash fastened at the > front < on the dogs chest, or above the dogs spine, in the standard way? 
the usual ring is over the shoulders, or at the end of the ribs above the spine - 
IOW to the rear of the harness.

this dog is wearing an E-Z-Walk from Premier-Pet-Products, which i no longer recommend - 
but it shows clearly where the leash is attached - 
http://www.ontariospca.ca/images/Newshound/spring08/photo_frontclip.jpg

the same effect can be had from a (much-cheaper) H-harness *with a chest ring - * 
and clipping the leash onto the chest-ring, rather than the usual over-the-back one.

i have used lunge-lines, they work fine, too - for small dogs i have used light, durable sash-cord. 
cheers, 
--- terry


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