# My experience....



## Guest (Oct 12, 2010)

A good few years ago I was very.....nieve?
I looked on our very good friend pets4homes and found a siamese kitten, it was the colour I wanted and arranged to go view it.

I knew that I would leave with it because well, thats the way it goes.

I arrived at the house and walked to the door, the man opened the door and invited me in. I walked in to see 3 cats sat in the hall (as the front door faced the stairs) all the doors where shut and there was a litter tray for the cats. I noticed that all 3 cats had gunky eyes and seemed.....ill. 

I walked into the front room where a large lady (I myself am large so no-one take offence) was sat on the sofa with a laptop on a table infront of her. The room covered in stuff, so much stuff that you couldnt move around the room. The carpet was dirty and the house smelt. 

She sent her OH into the kitchen to get the kitten (I didnt see much of the kitchen except there was alot of paper on the floors) and I herd a good few dogs barking in the kitchen. 

I liked the kitten, however it was thin...for a siamese it was thin. It clung to me with its claws. She swore it was 9 weeks old however I beg to differ. She said I couldnt meet mum as she had died during birth. I had seen dad and his not so well looking eyes and skin. I left with the kitten although I knew I wasnt doing myself any favours. 

I got home and took it straight to the vet...who said it had cat flu and was very under-weight. The cat wasnt even drinking water I had to get milk in for it because it wouldnt eat or drink anything but milk. 

He would only drink milk when we shringed it into his mouth.

After the vet advised me to keep it away from my cats until I had done a whole range of tests I decided that I would give it back to the breeder as I didnt want this small, delicate kitten locked away until tests came back. 

I rang the breeder to have her shout rude words at me and call me saying I got the cat ill. Before I emailed her asking for her to take the kitten back or I would contact the relivent people. After exchaning many emails and only after I threatened to contact the GCCF she agree'd to take the cat back and give me my money back. 

Because she didnt believe me I gave her my vet details for her to ring them with their findings of the kittens health the day we got him. 

We had the poor thing for 3 days. 

Given what I know now things would have been so different. 

So yeah, anyone else had problems like this?


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

If she sold you a kitten that she told you was nine weeks old & it may have been younger then that alone is enough to contact the GCCF with if she is even bothering to that much.

Sounds horrendous & I think most people in your shoes would have taken the kitten away from such a nasty place.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2010)

messyhearts said:


> Sounds horrendous & I think most people in your shoes would have taken the kitten away from such a nasty place.


I wanted to but didnt have the room at the time to keep it seperated from my other cats. And it was so small and needed feeding by hand every so many hours and guiding to the litter box, I couldnt do it if It was in a different room. I was in a very small house at the time and had to be very careful as I couldnt keep my 3 adult cats locked in a room....  I did contact the police and cat protection to go with them to take the cat but cat protection said they couldnt do anything.

At the time I was living in a small house and was training our GSD to get used to cats so had the cats and dogs seperated as it was...


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> I wanted to but didnt have the room at the time to keep it seperated from my other cats. And it was so small and needed feeding by hand every so many hours and guiding to the litter box, I couldnt do it if It was in a different room. I was in a very small house at the time and had to be very careful as I couldnt keep my 3 adult cats locked in a room....  I did contact the police and cat protection to go with them to take the cat but cat protection said they couldnt do anything.
> 
> At the time I was living in a small house and was training our GSD to get used to cats so had the cats and dogs seperated as it was...


Oh no, I mean the fact you took it to the vets etc.. I wasn't commenting about the fact you didn't keep the poor tyke.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I know its sounds awful but people need to Stop buying these types of kittens, it will stop these awful bloody people breeding them as a opening wont appear for another to be born into that awful place 

I to was suckered in from a reg breeder many years back, was told it was a 100% pedigree, went over, clean house, only allowed in one room while the man went to fetch the kittens, he brought 2 in, very very very scared kittens, mum wasnt allowed to be seen, bu dad was held by the guy and he opened the door showed me him then took him back into the other room.

was told the kitten was breding an paperwork in the post, took the kitten, we drove 2hours to get her, go home she was so scared she screamed at every bit of noise you could think of, she had worms/ear mites and we then found out she was a persian cross ragdoll. Took her straight back and demanded our money back plus our vet fees.

Swore Id never take taken in again and did a hell of a lot more research.

No one should buy a kitten that they feel sorry for, itll only end up with more being born in its place as they can sell them 

I dont know why these people dont d things properly, well, I do, it the money they save and pocket!! I have to do things perfect no matter what I do in y life and I have a conscience and love for animals I couldnt imagine what type of people these back yard breeders are. 

Oh on a puppy note we got a pup a few years back, turned out to be 5 weeks old riddled with fleas/mites/worms had been beaten, god knows when it was taken from mum, we were totally taken in byt the person who bred kc reg ckcs, but then she also had random pedigree dogs that her 'friend' needed her to sell, found out a women a few doors down bought one from her the day after me. That poor dog had so many issues, we spent so much money trying to help him, poor thing


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

I also get annoyed at Byb, cutting corners especially when their cats are supposedly Gccf Reg, they should get reported, the trouble is they dont get reported often enough.

People feel sorry for the kitten and rather than say no, they think they are saving the kitten.

I too wished they would say no more often and then the breeder would be stuck with kittens they can not sell.

Its sad, but you hear these stories far to often these Byb are everywhere.And they are not interested in Kitten/Cat welfare only the money they make. The biggest give away is the age at which they rehome, they want the kittens away as soon as possible.

Reputable breeders let their kittens go at 13 weeks old, in perfect health with Vet checks signed off, Fully vaccinated as standard, most reputable breeders then have extras, wormed, de-flead, microchipped,health insurance,registered, etc 

Byb have excuses, paperworks in the post, Mum died,etc


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> I know its sounds awful but people need to Stop buying these types of kittens, it will stop these awful bloody people breeding them as a opening wont appear for another to be born into that awful place
> 
> No one should buy a kitten that they feel sorry for, itll only end up with more being born in its place as they can sell them





tellingtails said:


> People feel sorry for the kitten and rather than say no, they think they are saving the kitten.
> 
> I too wished they would say no more often and then the breeder would be stuck with kittens they can not sell.


Totally agree with both of you!!!

If people (buyers) walked away from these kittens and the breeders were left with litters of kittens they couldn't sell... the practice would die out fairly quickly. It's supply and demand - if we, "the cat loving public", keep buying these kittens - the fcuked up backyard breeders will keep churning out litter after litter.

People (buyers) have to realise that by helping/rescuing/buying one kitten from the greedy claws of a BYB, they may be "saving" that one kitten, but they are condemning generations more to a hideous life. The queens these BYB breed from often have a far worse life than the kittens they produce.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> It's supply and demand


Yes it is and the worst of 'breeders' know exactly how to tug at the heartstrings. People who have pets are usually the type who need to nurture, need to be needed to whatever extent. Puppy and kitten farmers (because that is what they are) actually play on this. Basically they see the softie coming a mile off and the more sympathetic you are to the plight of the animals the more tenners they'll have off you. You've been told a price on the phone but when you get there the only one left is the 'rare' colour (sure it is) and costs more. I'll guarantee you'll have to make a decision there and then or lose your chance because they have someone else who really wants the kitten and is turning up in an hour, it's worse than dealing with Arthur Daley!

And yet they keep farming the poor animals because people will keep handing over the cash


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## MissyMV6 (Aug 5, 2010)

Well I am going to tell my tale although it upsets me..Firstly I broke the first rule by booking 2 kittens without seeing them and paying a £200 deposit In my defence I hadn't found this forum and I didn't have any previous experience with pedigree cats I stupidly thought that the breeds I wanted (Devon and Cornish)were in high demand and that paying a deposit over the phone was normal practice
The breeder sounded very professional over the phone and her website looked great I was so excited about bringing my babies home
Originally I had booked a choc devon girl and a blue cornish boy.A couple of week later the breeder e-mailed me to say the blue boy had a hernia and I couldn't take him and I had to choose another kitten she had 2 lilac and white girls that would be ready the same time as the choc devon she sent pics and they were very similar.She said I had the choice of which one and whichever one I didn''t want she would keep for breeding.I had to nag her a lot to get pics of their progressand as it got nearer the time to pick them up I had a feeling she had picked which Lilac and white girls she wanted.I e-mailed her and she confirmed this saying she had picked the quiet one for "showing"..I let this go because they did look so similar anyway.The girls were meant to be chipped but she only had the Cornish chipped because the Devon was too small
2 days prior to us picking them up she e-mailed to say the cornish had been batted in the eye and she had taken her to the vet and there was no scratch or infection in the eye and she had been given cream to apply she said I could have delayed picking them up by 2 days but I thought 2 days wouldn't have made any difference anyway.Myself my hubby and my 2 teenagers excitedly made the 1hr and 30min drive to pick them up we were shocked the house was on the main road and the house was small and very very cluttered and dustyMy gut reaction was to turn around and walk straight back out again The room was filled with a few queens and a couple of kittens running about she said thats yours and pointed to our Cornish her eye looked worse than I imagined and I was shocked at how small she looked.All the cats seemed snuffly.She grabbed the little devon and she got her claws out and she wanted to go back on the floor.We saw their mothers but we weren't offered a look around the house or to see the dads.We weren't offered a drink or anything and felt like she couldn't wait to get us out of the house.Myself and my daughter asked if we could use the loo.Every step up to the bathroom was thick with dog hair I thought they would be ok once we got them home.
In the first week the Cornish developed the sniffles and so did the devon I took them to the vets and they were both diagnosed with cat flu And were given medication.The devons eye got infected and wouldn't respond to treatment The cornish got over the flu but sadly the devons eye got worse and we ended up seeing a specialist who diagnosed her with the herpes virus and she may lose her eyeI kept the breeder up to date and she said she had never had a problem like this before and she would take them back up to 6 months old and we could have replacement kittensWe felt that they had become part of the family by this point.I just plodded on with the treatment and then the cornish developed problems which turned out to be coronavirus again the breeder said she had never had this problem and she couldnt have got it from her houseSadly this mutated into fip and we lost her at 6 months  The devon then got poorly and she was diagnosed with fip too we lost her at 7 months Oh and the vet said she had boy bits but they weren't in the right place Again the breeder seemed concerned but more about the kittens she had kept (and her reputation I suppose).I have never asked for money back apart from help with the specialist fee she said she would pay some towards the initial but that never appeared I dont want to name names and because I had already got a kitten 3 months prior to the girls arriving I cannot prove the herpes virus or coronavirus wasn't given to them from my kitten It's been such a mess financially (£1700) and emotionally I so wish I could turn back time
Angie x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

MissyMV6 said:


> Well I am going to tell my tale although it upsets me..Firstly I broke the first rule bytime as the choc devon she sent pics and they were very similar.She problems which turned out to be coronavirus again the breeder said virus or coronavirus wasn't given to them from my kitten It's been such a mess financially (£1700) and emotionally I so wish I could turn back time
> Angie x


this is terrible  if only people could just walk away whenb they see places like this  and not thinks its 'normal'

have you reported her? with your other kitten has she got the virus now? she CAN be tested and if she is neg you can take them to small claims court, it only costs £25, under the sales of good act

ILL PM YOU now.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Unfortunately getting a corona negative pedigree kitten is never going to be easy, the great majority of multi-cat households are going to have had the corona virus and normally it only causes diarrhoea. Losing two to FIP is certainly bad luck (but it does happen, I lost a whole litter to FIP about ten years ago). Selling cats with cat flu is another matter and certainly should not have been done.

Your rights in law are limited to returning the kittens for a refund. Unfortunately if you start paying for vet treatment you cannot make the breeder pay for this, any more than if you buy a used car from a dealer and then start paying for repairs you can then go back and demand the cost of those repairs from the dealer. Of course kittens are not cars and most of us would be inclined to carry on with the vet treatment, especially if we suspected that if the kitten was returned it might simply be put to sleep. Did you not have insurance given to you at the time of sale?

I have once (many years ago) had a comeback where a kitten I sold turned out to have an upper respiratory tract infection. We resolved the situation amicably by me refunding the cost of purchase (which wasn't huge as it was a half pedigree kitten, about £50 as I recall) and certainly if anything like this happened with a kitten I had sold I would want to do that. The difficulty in some cases is that the breeder is so broke after paying the vet bills to clear something like this up, that the money genuinely cannot be returned and the only option is to offer another kitten.

Small and cluttered does not necessarily equal disease ridden though - viruses cause disease, clutter and dog hair doesn't!

Liz


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

lizward said:


> Small and cluttered does not necessarily equal disease ridden though - viruses cause disease, clutter and dog hair doesn't!
> Liz


hmmmmm -- clutter

Maybe clutter in the sense of piles of clothes and newspaper and shoes strewn around the house doesn't cause diseases

but clutter in terms of too many cats in a small house (with inadequate spaces to quarantine the sick ones) surely does ?


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I think that the culture of cat breeding and dog breeding for that matter is to blame for these stories.

Too may think of breeding cats and dogs as an easy way to make money.

Too many have no idea of what breeding is all about. So you get the "unrealistic fluffy kitten brigade" who are mightily shocked when things go wrong or the "hard nosed business" brigade who will only think of the finances. Neither do cats any favours whatsoever.
No one would take up a post as a midwife or an accountant or a vet without training, yet people quite happily take on the position of "breeder" with very little real knowledge of anything to do with cats despite pleas of having done "research".

Too many breed on a shoestring, so that when things go wrong they have no back up capital to compensate owners for sick or dying/dead kittens.

Too many breed cats whatever their health problems and deny when they get sick or dead kittens.

Too many are basically liars and will say or do anything to get a sale and their sense of justice and fairness is definitely skewed towards themselves.

Too many have no feeling for the animals they breed whatsoever, merely seeing them as money makers.

I think the above can apply equally as well to all sections of the breeding "industry" from your kitten mill to your esteemed registered breeders. There are bad apples in all circles.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Tje said:


> Maybe clutter in the sense of piles of clothes and newspaper and shoes strewn around the house doesn't cause diseases
> 
> but clutter in terms of too many cats in a small house (with inadequate spaces to quarantine the sick ones) surely does ?


Yes, but that isn't what I assumed was meant by clutter.

Liz


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Well unfortunately we are human.. and humans have great emotions and feelings and guilt.. And are very easily swayed into doing things are heart tells us to do when our head is screaming no....

I don't think BYB will ever be stopped, I don't think it matters how much you educate people because there will always be more people queuing!

I think even if it was illegal to breed without specific licenses and the punishment jail.. People will still do it.. Look at the world of Drugs.. and I know this is nothing like BYB but it just shows you people will take chances to make money...


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

lizward said:


> Yes, but that isn't what I assumed was meant by clutter.
> 
> Liz


I have a feeling it was both... clutter in terms of messiness... and clutter in terms of feline overcrowding.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Well unfortunately we are human.. and humans have great emotions and feelings and guilt.. And are very easily swayed into doing things are heart tells us to do when our head is screaming no....
> 
> I don't think BYB will ever be stopped, I don't think it matters how much you educate people because there will always be more people queuing!
> 
> I think even if it was illegal to breed without specific licenses and the punishment jail.. People will still do it.. Look at the world of Drugs.. and I know this is nothing like BYB but it just shows you people will take chances to make money...


I agree with you it's pointless trying to stop the BYB churning out puppies and kittens... however I do think the public can be educated on why it's not a good idea to buy from BYBs -- and when that happens, and BYBs are left with litters of kittens, that's when it will start to die out. Supply and demand. I see no way to stop the supply, but education fo kitten and puppy buyers can stop the demand.

All countries in the western world have drug problems... but not all countrie sin the western world have as a big a problem with BYBs as the UK does.


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## Lochsong (Oct 5, 2010)

Hi everyone, I know I haven't posted before but I have been lurking a lot recently and felt I needed to comment on this post. 

We don't have a cat/kitten yet. But have been thinking about cornish, devon and or shynx for a while (6 months actually).

Now, I thought I had done a reasonable amount of research but clearly after reading Angie's story I can see I haven't done enough. It is a potential minefield by the looks of it. One thing I am very aware of is price. If a kitten seems too cheap then something is afoot but generally the breeds we have looked at all come in at around the same price for each breed respectively. However, as a novice buyer I didn't think about price as much but that the kittens were vaccinated, wormed, came with papers etc etc and all the websites of the prospective breeders state this is what they do. Stangley, I have to admit I didn't think too much about how many beeding queens would be kept in a house in an indoor environment and how that could potentially impact on the health of those queens and kittens. But then I discovered this FORUM. Where if thruth be told my eyes have been opened - WIDE
at some of the goings on and stories I have read on here. I am particularly glad I found it. I have read through the discussions and arguments (no offence intended) about hobbyists/breeders and have to say I firmly come down now on the side of the hobbyist breeder. Previously, I reckon I would have walked into a breeders with god only knows how many queens and walked out with a kitten because I'd be too embarassed and know no better!! Lack of education if you will! Now - I wouldn't do that. If I walk into what feels even remotely like a kitten farm then I would have no hesitation in walking back out but I would be apprehensive about doing it. You put your trust in people and i would be scared of their reaction if I reject them (I am a big wimp in all honesty!) And I woud find clutter of any sort - general mess or too many cats and hair everywhere (don't mind a bit obviously) very offputting. 

I find websites which look appealing and are laid out well lull me into believeing they are professional breeders with good ethics but of course there is no way of knowing until a visit. 

For new, potential owners like me unless you come across a site like this then you could be taken in so easily. I am thankful for everyone who puts their own terrible experiences on here for people to see and for that matter the people who have had good experiences. It would be nice to be more open and then maybe some of these BYB would go out of business but I know it would open up a legal minefield!

As for Angie's story - I find that completely heartbreaking

Sorry for rambling on and on especially on my first ever post !!


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## MissyMV6 (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks Lochsong for your post.I have had my heartbroken through lack of knowledge and not following my gut instinct
I hope I haven't upset anyone, I have no intention of creating a rift with the breeders on here. I love this forum ,all the lovely comments I received from members have really helped me cope with my loss.But I really do think we need peoples" warts an all" experiences hopefully it will help other potential owners become more knowledgeable when choosing their furbabies
The most important thing I have learnt is to:

VISIT THE BREEDERS IN PERSON BEFORE BOOKING ANY KITTENS EVEN IF THE BREEDER MAKES OUT THEY ARE IN GREAT DEMAND.

Angie x


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Lochsong said:


> I have read through the discussions and arguments (no offence intended) about hobbyists/breeders and have to say I firmly come down now on the side of the hobbyist breeder.


That's so nice to read!! And since you read _that_ discussion... you already know that's the side of the fence I FIRMLY sit on too.

I don't really know how to advise you... but I do know you could do a lot worse than getting in touch with one of the many breeders on here and getting them to tell you what to look for, what to ask.... but above all.... trust your insticnts and NEVER be afraid to hang up any old lie to buy yourself some time. ("oh she is sooo lovely I really do want her... oh dear husband pay the lady a deposit now, what do you mean silly husband you forgot to go to the bank....oh dear lovely breeder, would you excuse us for 10 minutes while we pop to a cash machine" then leg it, phone her up and tell her you've just developed a spontaneous and unexplainable cat allergy).

I have had people come to look at my kittens (am not a breeder, I foster shelter cats & kittens) and sometimes they are totally not what I want as owners for my kittens (although I can't be any where near as critical as the good reputable breeders on here can be) but I can't bring myself to say no... for a multitude of reasons... the main one being they are in my home and I am scared how they'll react. So I just say yes... then phone them up the next day with an excuse. I have loads of them (excuses), lol, I just rotate them.

But keep that bit between you and I


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

MissyMV6 said:


> *I hope I haven't upset anyone, I have no intention of creating a rift with the breeders on here.* I love this forum ,all the lovely comments I received from members have really helped me cope with my loss.But I really do think we need peoples" warts an all" experiences hopefully it will help other potential owners become more knowledgeable when choosing their furbabies
> The most important thing I have learnt is to:
> 
> VISIT THE BREEDERS IN PERSON BEFORE BOOKING ANY KITTENS EVEN IF THE BREEDER MAKES OUT THEY ARE IN GREAT DEMAND.
> ...


heyyyy if you mean Lizward and me.... not at all.... and I _know_ I speak for Lizward too when I say that!! No one is falling out... far from it.

And you're not just RIGHT to share your story on here .... I would go as far as to say you have a moral obligation to share your story. People learn thorugh stories like yours... a lot more than they do through people like me nagging at them.

What happened to you and those two kittens is hideous, utterly and totally.

By sharing your story you can maybe make just one person, or more, stop and think and act differently when they see that cute kitten in that hell-hole house... and that's one step in the right direction. Rome wasn't built in a day. BYBs won't die out overnight. Stories like yours getting "out there" to as wide an audience as possible is what will eventually kill that cruel trade off.

All the best xxxx


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## Lochsong (Oct 5, 2010)

Angie, I agree with everything TJe said there. Even if that one person this time is me!! Your story needed to be told. I can't see how it would upset anyone or rock any boats on here. I would have thought everyone is on the same page here as far as cat welfare goes!


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2010)

I know if I had known what I know now I would have walked away as soon as I saw the cats confined to the hall.

It just shows...you never stop learning. Bad breeders should be stopped but I must say the GCCF has a great list of people who they feel have broken rules or whatever....if only the kennel club would do that.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Lochsong said:


> Angie, I agree with everything TJe said there. Even if that one person this time is me!! Your story needed to be told. I can't see how it would upset anyone or rock any boats on here. I would have thought everyone is on the same page here as far as cat welfare goes!


absolutely agree... I can't say that the breeders in here (and us foster mums) always agree on everything all of the time, of course we disagree on the small stuff (when to wean, what cat litter to use, bla bla) ... but I can *ASSURE* you (well Angie) there is no single breeder on this forum who will condone what happened to Angie and those kittens. In fact the people most pi$$ed off by these kind of things are the breeders. Everyone on here, on this subject, are definitely singing from the same hymn sheet.


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## MissyMV6 (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks guys,much appreciated 

Angie x


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## Atlantys (Aug 24, 2010)

I don't want to comment on the rest of the discussion, as I know that I'm likely to get on my high horse if I do. I said my piece as calmly as I could in the last thread, and then I stayed quiet. I think it's safest. 

But Anglie, I just want to say that I am so, so sorry for what you went through. It must have been absolutely heartbreaking to get attached to your kittens, and for them to have suffered so very much while you watched helplessly.

You're so right to condemn BYBs, but those kinds of people really don't care if you do, just as they don't care about their neglected, sick, confined, miserable breeding stock and the puppies and kittens they're forced to churn out.

I believe that the only way we're going to stop this from happening is by educating the public, and a thread like this _is _a good start. I want my kitten families to be as critical of me as I am of them. I'm probably being too idealistic, I know, but I honestly think that if you're going to take an animal into your life for about the next 15 years and you've chosen the pedigree route because you know what you want, then you _really _should make sure you're getting that. If you're not 100% comfortable with the breeder or their set-up, *walk away.*

Although I'm just so sad for you and your family that you went through such an ugly experience, I do hope that, by giving people a chance to read about it, you and shetlandlover might stop someone else from having to go through it.


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## MissyMV6 (Aug 5, 2010)

Atlantys said:


> I don't want to comment on the rest of the discussion, as I know that I'm likely to get on my high horse if I do. I said my piece as calmly as I could in the last thread, and then I stayed quiet. I think it's safest.
> 
> But Anglie, I just want to say that I am so, so sorry for what you went through. It must have been absolutely heartbreaking to get attached to your kittens, and for them to have suffered so very much while you watched helplessly.
> 
> ...


Yeah I hope so.The thing is though if you have never had dealings with a breeder before and they ask for a deposit to "secure" the kitten well you think this is the normal practice especially if you think that the kittens you want are in great demand and the breeder would prob think you were a time waster if you didn't agree to this
Bottom line is, it was very stupid of me not to go and see the kittens before I paid any monies.What is even worse is that I didn't walk away when it felt "wrong".The breeder keeps saying she's never had any problems at all with her litters until I came along And I was thinking well if she was so bad how is she still breeding 10 years on surely other buyers must have had problems or maybe how she breeds them is acceptable and I am being over pickyI wish there was a way of finding out if indeed she has had problems before.
Angie x


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

MissyMV6 said:


> Yeah I hope so.The thing is though if you have never had dealings with a breeder before and they ask for a deposit to "secure" the kitten well you think this is the normal practice especially if you think that the kittens you want are in great demand and the breeder would prob think you were a time waster if you didn't agree to this
> Bottom line is, it was very stupid of me not to go and see the kittens before I paid any monies.What is even worse is that I didn't walk away when it felt "wrong".The breeder keeps saying she's never had any problems at all with her litters until I came along And I was thinking well if she was so bad how is she still breeding 10 years on surely other buyers must have had problems or maybe how she breeds them is acceptable and I am being over pickyI wish there was a way of finding out if indeed she has had problems before.
> Angie x


Hmmmm, right first, please dont take this the wrong way. I am NOT attacking you. Just trying to explain.

You wouldnt expect a burglar to ring your doorbell and ask to be invited in to steal your family silver.  In that same vein, I wouldnt expect a BYB to be honest with me. They're con artists, and they lie.

I would fall off my chair if a BYB said well, now you mention it, yeah, a lot of my kittens die soon after I sell them. They are simply never going to admit this, even when it is true.

The reason she is still breeding 10 years on is because she is still making money, and still getting rid of her kittens. That is the ONLY thing that interests these people money! Thay have no interest in the kittens they churn out. If the market swung tomorrow and no one wanted kittens and squirrels were the new pet du jour then theyd be churning squirrels out.

Its practically impossible under the law to stop a BYB, so the fact shes been doing it for 10 years speaks nothing to the quality of her kittens its not like a bakers or butchers or shoe shop on the High St where it would go bankrupt if their quality was really crap, or trading standards would close them down. There are no checks or controls or governing bodies for BYBs. They are a law unto themselves. They can do whatever they like. All that matters is that they make money.

And you feeling oh geez is it maybe me thats being overly picky, and her standards are normal and she has so many happy previous customers  thats exactly what she wants you to feel!! When you start doubting yourself is when begin to stop doubting her, and that is exactly what she wants, so thats why shes passing the doubt (buck) on to you.

As for finding out about if shes had problems before. I doubt you will. Even on this forum, duped buyers are ever so reluctant to name & shame. Myself and 2 other posters helped another forum member a while back when she bought a way too young kitten from a BYB and it died within 24 hours. I was livid. But that forum member was ever so reluctant to let me phone the BYB, in fact she forbade it (I phoned the BYB anyway, but thats another story) and she was equally reluctant, if not more so, to get the RSPCA involved. This reluctance/fear doesnt help matters. But again, I hasten to add that is NOT a knock at you.

I do hope you take this in the spirit its meant... I really am not having a dig at you.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2010)

When I was at the vets with MAnuex on Monday morning there was a woman there with a bengal! it was just short of a year old and she said it had had nothing but ill health from the day she had brought it home and that it had cost her a fortune, the cat was in that day to be spayed! dunno if its wise to spay cats when they are not in good health but dont think I would have been happy having a dog spayed if it werent in good health!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> When I was at the vets with MAnuex on Monday morning there was a woman there with a bengal! it was just short of a year old and she said it had had nothing but ill health from the day she had brought it home and that it had cost her a fortune, the cat was in that day to be spayed! dunno if its wise to spay cats when they are not in good health but dont think I would have been happy having a dog spayed if it werent in good health!


maybe if the cat was also displaying serious behaviour issues... or spraying all over the home then it might be the lesser of two evils. If you leave a male unneutered and the spraying develops into a longterm problem, that's never in the interests of the cat or the owners ... so maybe this was just a case of weighing up the pros and cons and taking the risk of neutering a cat that is not in optimal health as the alternative is just as bad (if not worse).


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

MissyMV6 said:


> The breeder sounded very professional over the phone and her website looked great


Although I appreciate the term BYB in reference to this breeder, it appears she was part of the registered breeding community.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> it appears she was part of the registered breeding community


Which 'registered' breeding community? People can register their cats with one or more of at least three registration bodies. If her kittens were GCCF registered then the contact details are on the Code of Ethics *A COPY OF WHICH MUST BE GIVEN OVER TO THE NEW OWNER AT THE TIME OF SALE*. I'd apologise for shouting but if only one person reads a thread like this and learns what to look for then I'll shout long and hard.

There IS a complaints procedure and I wish more people would use it if they honestly have a problem. Whatever people claim to buyers about being registered breeders the reality is *"Registered owners of all GCCF registered cats/kittens accept the jurisdiction of the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy and undertake to abide by this general code of ethics"*


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2010)

Tje said:


> maybe if the cat was also displaying serious behaviour issues... or spraying all over the home then it might be the lesser of two evils. If you leave a male unneutered and the spraying develops into a longterm problem, that's never in the interests of the cat or the owners ... so maybe this was just a case of weighing up the pros and cons and taking the risk of neutering a cat that is not in optimal health as the alternative is just as bad (if not worse).


It was a she actually! don't know much about cats, but took a peep in the dasket - it were the spoted type and rather small! I always thought thee bengals were larger cats! Interested to learn - so feel free to put me right!
lol
DT


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> It was a she actually! don't know much about cats, but took a peep in the dasket - it were the spoted type and rather small! I always thought thee bengals were larger cats! Interested to learn - so feel free to put me right!
> lol
> DT


hehe, you're asking the wrong one, lol. What I know about bengals you can write on the back of a postage stamp.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

havoc said:


> There IS a complaints procedure and I wish more people would use it if they honestly have a problem. Whatever people claim to buyers about being registered breeders the reality is *"Registered owners of all GCCF registered cats/kittens accept the jurisdiction of the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy and undertake to abide by this general code of ethics"*


I feel your frustration... I wish more people would take some kind of action against these BYBs.

(Angie... again, hand on my heart, none of this is a dig at you).


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## MissyMV6 (Aug 5, 2010)

Tje said:


> I feel your frustration... I wish more people would take some kind of action against these BYBs.
> 
> (Angie... again, hand on my heart, none of this is a dig at you).


Dont worry I am not taking it as a personal dig.Thanks for your input.

Angie x


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