# canny or dogmatic?



## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

looking for a new head collar and i`m getting mixed reviews on both of these so can`t decide which one. need some first hand opinions on which is best before i order  if there`s any other suggestions i`ll be open to listenign but i`ve already got the halti head and body, walkeeze, gentle leader, mekuti and various non pull harnesses along with double ended leads and he still over powers me if he pulls out of the blue


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## witcheswalk (Aug 27, 2010)

I will be watching this thread with interest. I have the dogmatic, and find it very good, but then Sadie responds well to any head collar. She immediately calms down and stops trying to pull. The test with us, is when we see a cat, as then she does pull and bark and lunge. The dogmatic has helped with the control in this situation better than the Halti or gentle leader, or the K9 ever did. Unfortunately, the only one we havnt tried is the canny collar and I was wondering whether to give that a go, but dont want to spend out if it isnt going to work.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I use the dogmatic on Flynn and like it a lot. No riding up into the eyes and a good secure fit with a strong buckle.  He can be pretty strong when he wants so I have to feel secure and this one can't come undone, it's more like a horses reigns.










Regarding the above post and the cat thing. I think Flynn would be off when we see a hedgehog if it weren't for his dogmatic, no way could i hold onto him without the headcollar!


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

yeah see it`s just the extra control i`m looking for, he nearly had my arm off earlier when he seen a swan and the halti annoys me as it does ride up and leaves marks on his nose.

syd calms down walking on any head collar and i normally don`t have to resort to using the end of the lead attached to the headcollar unless we encounter a cat but jake just pulls right through it  i`m such a weakling though


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Canny Collar by a mile. See below 



Malmum said:


> I use the dogmatic on Flynn and like it a lot. *No riding up into the eyes and a good secure fit with a strong buckle.*  He can be pretty strong when he wants so I have to feel secure and this one can't come undone, it's more like a horses reigns.
> 
> Regarding the above post and the cat thing. I think Flynn would be off when we see a hedgehog if it weren't for his dogmatic, no way could i hold onto him without the headcollar!


Canny collar is exactly the same.

BIG difference with the canny, is that it comes from behind the head as opposed to under the chin. This means if the dog lunges or pulls instead of yanking their head round and causing their neck to twist, its just a pressure on the top of the muzzle which is powered from behind the head = no neck twisting.

That for me wins it hands down. Any dog can lunge or leap about on even a 3 foot lead and I would rather it keep their nose down as opposed to swing their head/neck round.

Only possible weighing up issue is the padding on the dogmatic, but I have never found the canny particularly harsh and I believe the width of the straps is near on identical meaning the force felt by the dog on their face is equal anyway 

ETA: Canny collar:










Dogmatic:


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

see i kinda like the idea the canny collar pulls down rather than round but then i`ve heard so many good things about both. arghhhh they should give free trial periods :lol:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> see i kinda like the idea the canny collar pulls down rather than round but then i`ve heard so many good things about both. arghhhh they should give free trial periods :lol:


Canny do. Or at least they did 

Have you heard bad things about either?

ETA:

Tadaaa 

http://www.cannydogcollar.co.uk/?gclid=CPX_qcDsi6sCFasKtAodDhnbwA


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I have everything dog face related for pulling :lol: 

I bought Dixie the canny collar after her spay because I wanted to stop her pulling and she didn't like the halti at all. She doesn't like the canny much better but she doesn't claw at her face lifting both front feet off the ground to get at it! BUT- if the lead is slack, she can get the loop off her nose very easily. And then I have to stop and fiddle and get it back on again, not so great when I have the other dogs using me as a maypole 

Dave hated the halti and the canny and refused point blank to walk in it. Which was a great improvement from having my arm yanked off, when he got to teenage stage, but not so helpful to walk in.
I have been using a gencon with him and it has been fab BUT since Dogless sent me a Dogmatic, the gencon has been retired. 

The Dogmatic has been a LIFE saver! I put it on my friends Boxer who hates the halti and it was fab. He couldn't get it off either. He did try a few times and failed. I walked Millie in it and it was fab for control to 'make' her look at me instead of the person/dog she wanted to jump all over. I do keep on a short lead when using head collars incase the dog jerks, well they are generally on short lead other wise they tangle me up by the time we are even half way to off lead place.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

But by having control under the chin you can direct the dogs face towards your body and stop him focussing on what he reacts to. I wouldn't mind having a go of the canny though but Flynn is so prey driven that he'll pull even on a head collar (hedgehogs are his thing at the mo ) so i need to stop him looking at them which i couldn't do from behind his head.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Malmum said:


> But by having control under the chin you can direct the dogs face towards your body and stop him focussing on what he reacts to. I wouldn't mind having a go of the canny though but Flynn is so prey driven that he'll pull even on a head collar (hedgehogs are his thing at the mo ) so i need to stop him looking at them which i couldn't do from behind his head.


But what if the dog bombs two feet in front, all that weight you're holding goes straight onto their neck and twists them as they reach the end of the lead :nonod: If you have a very reactive dog I would be more worried about that than anything else.

If a dog is resisting the pressure of a headcollar so much that they continue to pull I would say a headcollar is not for them and to try another aid. They are basically negative enforcers, you pull and you get an uncomfortable feeling type of thing. As a result if a dog pulls regardless and doesn't stop as soon as they feel a level of pressure they are uncomfortable with I would just find another aid.

I appreciate Flynn is very prey driven Malmum, and I don't know just how prey driven he is to compare him with Roo etc. But I know Jake is a young retriever, Syd a youngish spaniel and I've been there and done that with Rupert and am advising on that aspect more than anything, it being an aid not a solution


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

But if your dog walks on a loose lead on a headcollar- then he does not need a headcollar. Therefor you either have the dog out at the end of the lead (whats the point in that) or at control distance so that they should not have 2ft of lead to pull on? 

My dogs are expected to walk to heel and when Dave is walking on a loose lead for brief moments of time, he only has about 6" of lead to play with, other wise he is all over the pavement.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> But if your dog walks on a loose lead on a headcollar- then he does not need a headcollar.


I disagree.

A headcollar isn't used to teach a dog to walk to heel. Its to control them in situations that are unexpected. Such as lunging into roads/at people and creating dangerous situations 

Rupert has never needed a headcollar because he pulls, he has walked well on a loose lead since he was about 5-6 months old. He was in a headcollar because he would lunge at road kill and I could not physically hold him if he did this.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Never thought about using one that way. I've only used them as an aid to teach walking on the lead. Dixie in her canny collar I used to teach her the stop/start method and she no longer needs it.
Dave I think will always need his. He still pulls in it but its the best thing I've found so far that makes him stay at heel for long enough. His heel went out the window when he got to teenage stage and has never returned, no matter what I try. It's frustating!


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Dogmatic - no competition in my opinions!


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

but what else would you suggest if they`re pulling against the head collar? like i said i`ve tried every kind of body harness and i simply can`t safely walk jake in them let alone train him to walk to heel. he does pull against the halti and gentle leader but not to excess and i really need something like that as if he sees something before i`ve realised it`s there then i`d be forced to let the lead go for my own safety or be dragged along the ground like i was before without the head collar.

i think he`s just been worse recently as classes were off for the summer, i think since i don`t know anyone in this area the dogs in class get him used to distractions since i can`t do the same at home but when they`re off for so long there`s nothing i can do for that same interaction.

PG - dave sounds a lot like jake!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

I've used most head collars on various dogs i've trained with and dogmatic wins hands down.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> Never thought about using one that way. I've only used them as an aid to teach walking on the lead. Dixie in her canny collar I used to teach her the stop/start method and she no longer needs it.
> Dave I think will always need his. He still pulls in it but its the best thing I've found so far that makes him stay at heel for long enough. His heel went out the window when he got to teenage stage and has never returned, no matter what I try. It's frustating!


Rupert's quite good in that if you only let him do things one way he quickly learns that's the only way to do it! Milo is not the same 

I think being in a headcollar was quite detrimental to Rupert's heelwork  He went back in his canny from last October/November to about March this year. Since then I have very much struggled to have him walk happily at a heel, I think its because of a headcollar working that much further forward on the muzzle compared with a flat collar on the neck, and he seems to feel he need to be further forward as that's where the pressure is in a headcollar, meaning in a flat collar, that's not to heel. He will heel when told etc but drifts out of it very easily and I have to nag for it. So I tend to just leave him to it and let him go on a loose lead now instead.

I have recently seen headcollars in a new light. I'm all for the odd correction but they really can be like constant negative reinforcers at times and Rupert enjoys himself a lot on lead work walks now, he enjoys them much less on a canny.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> But what if the dog bombs two feet in front, all that weight you're holding goes straight onto their neck and twists them
> 
> I appreciate Flynn is very prey driven Malmum, and I don't know just how prey driven he is to compare him with Roo etc. But I know Jake is a young retriever, Syd a youngish spaniel and I've been there and done that with Rupert and am advising on that aspect more than anything, it being an aid not a solution


I could not have one of my Mals "bombing" two feet in front of me, if I did i'd be on my knee's behind them  also the whole idea of my using a head collar is so as they don't pull ahead of me and walk by my side. I know you cannot compare the breeds you have mentioned with the prey drive of a Mal or Husky, there is prey drive and there is real prey drive - the reason why Husky's and Mals should never be off lead except in a secure area, you wouldn't get one of them coming back once they've spotted a rabbit, lol. Couple that with the sheer weight difference of say Roo - Flynn is 60kgs and born to pull there really is no comparison. 



PoisonGirl said:


> But if your dog walks on a loose lead on a headcollar- then he does not need a headcollar. Therefor you either have the dog out at the end of the lead (whats the point in that) or at control distance so that they should not have 2ft of lead to pull on?
> 
> My dogs are expected to walk to heel and when Dave is walking on a loose lead for brief moments of time, he only has about 6" of lead to play with, other wise he is all over the pavement.


Flynn walks perfectly by my side but on the occasion he see's a dog or a hedgehog he'll be far too strong for me to hang on to so the poor boy wears his dogmatic for the "just in case" scenario's. Agree totally with them walking by your side though, the whole point in using a head collar and very little risk or them hurting their necks, in fact it's far more risky using one of those awful flexi leads attached to a collar, they should only be used on a harness IMO.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Leah Dave does still pull in his headcollar as well, but its alot easier to manage than in a harness. 
If he would get it into his thick skull that he is supposed to stay at heel it would be fine. But my using the headcollar to stop him and bring him back he still does not get it. I've near given up trying to stop him pulling. Even the woman at dog class could not get him to walk loose lead outside! 
Dixie, although she is wee, she is very strong! And I found walking her on just a collar to teach lead walking was not doing an awful lot. She soon learned with the canny collar that the stop/start method was really boring. However I don't like using something that they can get off their nose easily.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> but what else would you suggest if they`re pulling against the head collar? like i said i`ve tried every kind of body harness and i simply can`t safely walk jake in them let alone train him to walk to heel. he does pull against the halti and gentle leader but not to excess and i really need something like that as if he sees something before i`ve realised it`s there then i`d be forced to let the lead go for my own safety or be dragged along the ground like i was before without the head collar.
> 
> i think he`s just been worse recently as classes were off for the summer, i think since i don`t know anyone in this area the dogs in class get him used to distractions since i can`t do the same at home but when they`re off for so long there`s nothing i can do for that same interaction.


So is this for Jake with general pulling?

Depends on the extent of the pulling. Using Milo as an example I would stick him in a headcollar (a canny ) and basically not let him pull. Milo was very dangerous to walk when we got him and similarly to how people correct with a slip lead/martingale/half check collar I would use tiny corrections with a headcollar. I mean tiny as well, but with Milo its enough to get his attention. Milo is a typical lab and a pain in the backside really. Takes a long time for it to sink it but it does. Stopping when he gets very out of hand and/or if the minor corrections don't get his attention and allow him to fall back into a heel position.

Re lunging you just have to be as ahead of the game as possible. Milo still freaks at weird things sometimes and tries to bolt, both dogs have had me over a good few times in the past (Milo recently). I do prefer headcollars to harnesses but then I wouldn't aim to use one long term just for a stint until I could hopefully go back to a flat collar or plain harness etc.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Malmum said:


> I could not have one of my Mals "bombing" two feet in front of me, if I did i'd be on my knee's behind them  also the whole idea of my using a head collar is so as they don't pull ahead of me and walk by my side. I know you cannot compare the breeds you have mentioned with the prey drive of a Mal or Husky, there is prey drive and there is real prey drive - the reason why Husky's and Mals should never be off lead except in a secure area, you wouldn't get one of them coming back once they've spotted a rabbit, lol. Couple that with the sheer weight difference of say Roo - Flynn is 60kgs and born to pull there really is no comparison.


See here I'm on about reactivity be it prey or fear. But then I never hold a lead taut its always loose, I'm not familiar with how you walk  I was taught a good year or more ago now that if you hold a lead taut a dog will never learn how to heel because you're physically holding them there. Rupert walks by my side as does Milo, but I don't have them on my leg which is near on what heel is really. I don't care particularly with Roo if he wanders around a bit because I can trust him not to lunge or be silly (not that he's in a headcollar now anyway). It is differing priorities as well though like I say I don't use headcollars to be permanent solutions I use them as a stop gap really.

This is why I love my retrievers I have to say  There are challenges with them but not generally anything which cannot be overcome with ample training and patience because they don't really have any deep rooted instincts quite like as you say mals and huskies do! 



PoisonGirl said:


> Leah Dave does still pull in his headcollar as well, but its alot easier to manage than in a harness.
> If he would get it into his thick skull that he is supposed to stay at heel it would be fine. But my using the headcollar to stop him and bring him back he still does not get it. I've near given up trying to stop him pulling. Even the woman at dog class could not get him to walk loose lead outside!
> Dixie, although she is wee, she is very strong! And I found walking her on just a collar to teach lead walking was not doing an awful lot. She soon learned with the canny collar that the stop/start method was really boring. However I don't like using something that they can get off their nose easily.


I do start stop with Milo. Boring as hell, takes forever. But it works.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

If I did stop/start with Dave it would take me forever and a day to get anywhere, we never progress further than me being able to take two steps before he is in front again. I did it for two whole hours once, not an inch of improvement  soooooo frustrating! :lol: I could strangle him sometimes.
Dixie however, now I only need to stop her maybe once or twice the whole walk.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

LOL yeah the trainers at our classes couldn`t get jake to walk without pulling either and even the man struggled with his strength. without a head collar to correct him jake will put his entire weight and strength into pulling so it`s way too dangerous walking him on a collar (nor would i ever consider using a collar and lead to walk him but that`s for different reasons)

it`s all good saying be ahead of the game with lunging BUT if you`re not and they pull you over dragging you down the street - and i`ve literally been on the floor being pulled down the street - then it`s just too risky! i can be as focused as possible but things still happen that can catch off guard and with me being pregnant him lunging and straining is way too much of a risk for me to take. i need something with more control than the harness for that purpose and also once the baby is born as i can`t have him lunge off and drag me over with a baby attached to me. i know i`m almost double jake`s weight but whilst he`s pure muscle i`m pure feebleness


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> If I did stop/start with Dave it would take me forever and a day to get anywhere, we never progress further than me being able to take two steps before he is in front again. I did it for two whole hours once, not an inch of improvement  soooooo frustrating! :lol: I could strangle him sometimes.
> Dixie however, now I only need to stop her maybe once or twice the whole walk.


See Rupert is the other way now, stop start wouldn't really work for him but I think its because its a bit patronising for him maybe as he does know what to do, unlike Milo..! Milo just needs so much consistency which is what he doesn't get with my Mum unfortunately, she doesn't enforce anything with him 

It takes a good while for Milo to get anything though he sounds a bit like Dave. Takes a good long time for anything to get through to whatever braincells Milo has hiding in his head..!


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> If I did stop/start with Dave it would take me forever and a day to get anywhere, we never progress further than me being able to take two steps before he is in front again. I did it for two whole hours once, not an inch of improvement  soooooo frustrating! :lol: I could strangle him sometimes.
> Dixie however, now I only need to stop her maybe once or twice the whole walk.


you`re lucky you got 2 steps - with jake the second i attempt to move he pulls right away and i don`t even get a step forward, i guess that`s an improvement from when i`d stand still and he`d still be trying to pull me forward whilst i was doing so. he is pretty good at walking by my side if i hold the lead in a certain way but only if the head collar is on as a deterrent. syd is an angel with his walking compared to when i first had him but he is quite cat aggressive and goes nuts if he sees a cat (took me ages to get him used to our cats)


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> LOL yeah the trainers at our classes couldn`t get jake to walk without pulling either and even the man struggled with his strength. without a head collar to correct him jake will put his entire weight and strength into pulling so it`s way too dangerous walking him on a collar (nor would i ever consider using a collar and lead to walk him but that`s for different reasons)
> 
> it`s all good saying be ahead of the game with lunging BUT if you`re not and they pull you over dragging you down the street - and i`ve literally been on the floor being pulled down the street - then it`s just too risky! i can be as focused as possible but things still happen that can catch off guard and with me being pregnant him lunging and straining is way too much of a risk for me to take. i need something with more control than the harness for that purpose and also once the baby is born as i can`t have him lunge off and drag me over with a baby attached to me. i know i`m almost double jake`s weight but whilst he`s pure muscle i`m pure feebleness


Point I'm making Leah is there is no solution above a headcollar for lunging I don't think. If you can't be ahead of the game 100% the time you just have to accept you will get pulled over sometimes if the dog is that determined. No one can be ahead of the game 24/7 but its just the way it goes I don't think there is anything above a headcollar, I really don't :nonod: So its just something to accept. The odds of getting pulled over are much less but not removed completely, they're dogs it never can be 

He will get better as he gets older I'm sure of that to an extent but besides that managing in a headcollar is about all I can think of and you still might get pulled over if he's that determined. Milo is like that as well with lunging but I just take it that if I've not seen something first or been extra prepared I will get yanked over. He's not that bad now but generally I walk very quickly and the dogs prefer this and are less inclined to look for anything to fuss with I find.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

The best thing I found with stopping them pulling was not letting them even start. Sounds weird but I used to leave harnesses and leads around the floor, pick them up and put them on for a while than take them off after half hour without actually taking them out. They'd get so bored that they would just go to sleep wearing their leads or harnesses. My guys never go outside the door if they are at all excited, makes for a sh*t walk. Sometimes Flynn would wear his harness all day (I use a harness to attach him in the car not walking ) and I would take him out in the evening, he never knows if he's going out or not just because the lead is on, neither does Kali or Marty.
Leaving their leads etc around the house, on the sofa and picking them up and handling them then just putting them back down again has made a whole world of difference to how the Mals all walk. I used to take them when they were excited and just get on with the first ten mins of excitement but the walks now are a pleasure with no pulling at all. Mind you if they so much as show any excitement they don't go out til later but they know how to behave if they want a walk now. 

It took a good couple of weeks but boy has it been worth it. I can't stop the prey drive though but I do always say "It's a pussy cat Flynn" lol cos he knows he mustn't chase pussy cats - don't think he's fooled though!


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

i think i`ve totally read something wrong lol just ignore me i`m knackered i somehow thought you were saying i should walk him on a collar and deal with the lunging that way, i`m easily confused today! 

funny you should mention walking fast as normally i do but since my bump has got bigger combined with the shortness of breath and dizziness i`ve had to walk slower so i don`t get light headed or pass out. syd is loving it as he can take his time reading the peemails on the lamposts but it could explain why jake seems like he`s pulling a bit more. i`m wondering as well if it`s the poor fitting of the halti as it twists round so doesn`t give a great amount of control if i need it - he`s awkward, too big for size 2 but too size 3 is quite loose on him


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## natty01 (Sep 4, 2011)

i had the same problem , the nose loop kept coming off during walks and everytime i stopped and she put her head down to sniff.

i uswed a dogmatic on my VERY strong dog and it was the only thing that never broke . he broke two haltis and the other head collar that i forgot the name of rubbed his eyes . our dogmatic was leather and well worth the expense.



PoisonGirl said:


> I have everything dog face related for pulling :lol:
> 
> I bought Dixie the canny collar after her spay because I wanted to stop her pulling and she didn't like the halti at all. She doesn't like the canny much better but she doesn't claw at her face lifting both front feet off the ground to get at it! BUT- if the lead is slack, she can get the loop off her nose very easily. And then I have to stop and fiddle and get it back on again, not so great when I have the other dogs using me as a maypole
> 
> ...


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

I shelled out for a Canny Collar but didn't use it for long. As a couple of people have mentioned it relies on tension in the leash to keep it in place, which kind of defeats the object. 

My best success came with using an Easy Walk harness that clips at the front, it worked great for the pulling and even the lunging, without putting any strain on his neck.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I've tried a Halti non pull harness but the boys couldn't give a damn about strain on their chest, suppose that's to be expected with a sledding breed. Tried a gencon, a slip lead and a half check collar and none compare to the dogmatic.


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

I use a slip lead put into a figure of 8.

I bought a halti one a few months back and it wasnt shaped properly for my pointy dog Charlie, so now i use a slip lead.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I use a Dogmatic the best thing we have ever brought for controlled walking.

As Dillon is large I find the loop under the chin handy to slip my hand into if I want to keep him really close to me for a minute or two.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

I currently use a Canny on Honey when we go near busy roads, not to stop her pulling because she walks well to heel, but as security in case a large or noisy vehicle frightens her. I have upper back problems so I would find it difficult to control her on just a collar if she suddenly panicked. The added security allows me to relax more, which in turn helps her to be more settled. She rarely flings herself now but it is still in the back of my mind, although she's dealt well with her traffic fears. I find the Canny is excellent for not riding up into the eyes and I like its behind the head action. It is streets ahead of the Halti or Gentle Leader, both of which I have tried in the past. 

I am also interested to see what you have all said about the Dogmatic. I've recently met two ladies using them, one on a 18 month old Great Dane and the other on a 19 month old Newfie who weighs 12 stone. They both said they are excellent and give very good control. I come from a horsey background so the use of a headcollar on a dog just seems so much more sensible to me. No one would walk a horse with a collar round its neck.  I am thinking hard about getting one as the Canny will need to be replaced soon. 

Sorry, I havent voted as I'm still undecided!


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## tattoogirl73 (Jun 25, 2011)

i've found with opie that the dogmatic works best. tried the canny collar when he was five months old and it worked for about a week, then it was back to being pulled over. i've tried a couple of front hold harnesses, and the halti head harness also, but none worked as well as the dogmatic.


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## flyballcrazy (Oct 6, 2010)

the dogmatic is a great tool, Lucky pulls like a train but in the dogmatic walks by my side and doesn't even try to pull it even calms him down

On my jR i use a K9 Bridle as the dogmatics are to big for her, its also calms her down in a normal collar she screams and leaps about but in the k9 bridle she walks nicely by my side with no screaming.

K9Bridle - The Worlds First Dog Bridle, Head Harness, Head Collar


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Humpgh!

Just went to order a Dogmatic- all the ones I wanted in a size 3 are out of stock

but these look so so similar and are less than half the price?
http://www.petdining.co.uk/mikki-training-walk-ease-headcollar-xlarge-35479.html


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## PinkEars (Jun 4, 2010)

Lola pulls like anything! I tried a Halti, which she hated but it helped! Because she hated it I tried a harness which she preferred but she still pulled a little and i had no control over her when she was lunging at other dogs. This also rubbed a sore under her arm even though it was a fluffy one. I then got a dogmatic recomended on here. She is not keen on it but its alot easier and quicker to put on then the halti and i have control back again. I have passed a couple of dogs on oposite side of the road and i have been able to keep her focus on me by turning her head and it seems to be working! We have the 1/2 size which is the smallest you can get but it is still a little bit two big i would say. Dogmatic are very helpful with sizing so if you have any concerns you can always ask them.
Lola showing off her Dogmatic!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I'd reccomend the Dogmatic I'm just gutted they are too big for my littleuns



flyballcrazy said:


> the dogmatic is a great tool, Lucky pulls like a train but in the dogmatic walks by my side and doesn't even try to pull it even calms him down
> 
> On my jR i use a K9 Bridle as the dogmatics are to big for her, its also calms her down in a normal collar she screams and leaps about but in the k9 bridle she walks nicely by my side with no screaming.
> 
> K9Bridle - The Worlds First Dog Bridle, Head Harness, Head Collar


Same here I boughrt the smallest dogmatic but it was still far to big for Zipper - I did use the K9 Bridle on Lilly (Zipper could easily back out of it or pull it off) and it was brilliant, then I lost it on a walk 



Phoenix&Charlie'sMum said:


> I use a slip lead put into a figure of 8.
> 
> I bought a halti one a few months back and it wasnt shaped properly for my pointy dog Charlie, so now i use a slip lead.


I just use the slip lead in a figure of 8 like you when I need close control - however Zipper is pretty sneaky at getting it off. Lilly is very good walking like this though.


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

PinkEars said:


>


I LOVES WALT!!!! 

Sorry, got carried away... will go back to my hidey hole.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

think i`m gonna give the dogmatic a go, was gonna order it yesterday but i can`t find any of our measuring tapes anywhere  i swear put something down in this house and it grows legs and walks!!! need to find something to measure jake`s nose with before i order it, i know they say 3l for male labs but he`s a very feminine male lab (shhhhh don`t tell him i said that) although sometimes the female lab sized things are too small but the male sized are too large. i did measure him with string but then i remembered i needed something to measure the string with :lol: i`m so dull at times!


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