# Kicked a Dog Today...



## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

My workload today has been very light - I had a job to do next to a local park and then I had to drive out to Ladybower Reservoir to do a small job there, and then drive to Lichfield. Anyway, I decided to take the dogs with me as they could have a walk on the park and then a small walk up the Derwent Valley.

So, on the park this morning I noticed a bloke walking his Labrador. I noticed him because his dog was doing a poo in the middle of a football pitch and he was more than 50 yards ahead ignoring his dog, hence didnt pick up the poo. My blood pressure rose slightly but he was too far away for me to do anything about it. Then, his dog spotted mine and started to run at full speed the distance of about 150-200 yards to get to us. I had plenty of time to call my dogs, get them in a sit and stand and wait (in hindsight I should have turned round and walked the other way). As the Lab approached I walked forward shouting at it to go away, it just glanced at me, ran round me and proceeded to shove it's nose into the nether regions of my dogs. Understandably my dogs got up as they were being accosted very rudely, Jed saw it as his chance to mingle, Flynn started to kick off. So, i'm trying to get my own dogs under control as well as do something to get the Lab away. Dont get me wrong, it was very friendly but it was determined, persistent and had no manners despite the fact it appeared to be a middle aged dog. I shouted, shooed, pushed it with my hand, grabbed it's collar (that came off straight away) but it was oblivious to everything I was doing. By this time my dogs were getting stressed, I was getting very angry and stressed so I resorted to kicking it several times as nothing was working (not hard but with enough force to call my actions a kick and make it felt). The bloody dog still ignored my efforts, I couldnt believe it.

Anyway, I glanced towards it's owner and saw him skulking next to some bushes, watching the commotion, not doing anything about it but trying to give the impression it wasnt his dog. Finally the dog suddenly remembered it had an owner and gave the bloke away by running straight up to him, where he proceeded to walk off. By this time my blood was boiling so I heeled my dogs and started marching towards him. As his dog started to run over again, I yelled for him to call it which he did and it went straight back. I carried on walking towards him, yelling my grievances and the other dog walker who had stopped to speak to him decided to beat a hasty retreat! The man himself put the lead on his dog and walked off before I could reach him, he obviously didnt want a confrontation.

Apart from being irresponsible for not cleaning up poo, allowing his dog to run silly distances to reach other dogs, and not attempting to get it back when it's being a nuisance - what dog owner witnesses somebody else kicking their dog and doesnt do anything to stop it? Now, some may say i'm wrong for kicking the dog but it wasnt my first resort, I tried other things which didnt work but what can you do to get rid of a dog that is oblivious and determined?

I tried to have a nice walk later on at Ladybower but Flynn was being his usual OTT, hyper aroused self and I just couldnt deal with him, plus I had a panic attack about his funny turns so what should have been a nice, easy day was actually a nightmare!

But looking at views like this made me feel a bit calmer!:


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I had a similar experience with a yellow lab on Pippi's Gotcha day walk. As it came bounding over I recalled mine and got hold of the two big dogs. It's owner was a good 200 yards away and didn't recall it or look the least bit bothered that his dog was running round in circles and jumping all over my two who were barking frantically at this point. I decided to just let them go and they all ganged up on it barking and chasing it so it got a bit more than it bargained for. I just walked past the owner, smiled and said "Good afternoon." while his dog was being harassed by all three of mine 

If someone else can't be bothered to control their dog then I'm not going to be controlling mine any more and if they're too much for the other dog tough Sh*t!


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I can't help feeling that as the dog was friendly maybe there was no need to kick it....?

Sorry, that's just my initial feeling.

I think I might have simply called my dogs, and walked away and then let the other owner chase after me.

Personally I would only kick a dog if it was actually being aggressive.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Kicking it was a bit ott. I think if a newbie wrote this they would be ripped to shreds


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

The problem is Flynn can be reactive towards other dogs, especially if they are in his space and bothering him. I dont want him practising that behaviour so letting him loose on the other dog wasnt an option, especially since his problems stem from anxiety and insecurities so he does not deal with situations correctly. And Jed would have only encouraged it by playing.

Excuses are being made for friendly dogs again. Quite frankly, I dont care how pleasant a dog is, if it's causing me and my dogs stress and will not go away then it gets dealt a bum hand and I will deal with it as I see fit at the time. If I think it needs a kick to get the message across then thats what i'll do. If I have to feel the wrath of the dogs owner then believe me, they will feel mine too.
I'm fed up to the back teeth of these friendly dogs whose owners do nothing to control them, I can feel some sympathy if the dog is in training and the owner fetches it and apologises. Thats not what ires me.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Leanne77 said:


> The problem is Flynn can be reactive towards other dogs, especially if they are in his space and bothering him. I dont want him practising that behaviour so letting him loose on the other dog wasnt an option, especially since his problems stem from anxiety and insecurities so he does not deal with situations correctly. And Jed would have only encouraged it by playing.
> 
> Excuses are being made for friendly dogs again. Quite frankly, I dont care how pleasant a dog is, if it's causing me and my dogs stress and will not go away then it gets dealt a bum hand and I will deal with it as I see fit at the time. If I think it needs a kick to get the message across then thats what i'll do. If I have to feel the wrath of the dogs owner then believe me, they will feel mine too.
> I'm fed up to the back teeth of these friendly dogs whose owners do nothing to control them, I can feel some sympathy if the dog is in training and the owner fetches it and apologises. Thats not what ires me.


I have a reactive dog myself, so no, I'm not 'making excuses' for this dog and/or the owner.

You've described what you did and I am simply remarking that, personally, I would only kick a dog if it was being actively aggressive towards mine.

I would prefer to simply call my dog and walk away rather than kick a friendly dog.

I might be more inclined to kick the other owner


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I can't stand dogs who just will not get the hint, or their owners for that matter.
The last two dogs that did that to mine, quickly switched from being friendly, to trying to bite my dogs & Danny ended up with a puncture wound on his stomach. 

If I went flying up to someone, leapt on them and gave them a hug, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get a positive response.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Gemmaa said:


> I can't stand dogs who just will not get the hint, or their owners for that matter.
> The last two dogs that did that to mine, quickly switched from being friendly, to trying to bite my dogs & Danny ended up with a puncture wound on his stomach.
> 
> If I went flying up to someone, leapt on them and gave them a hug, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get a positive response.


But dogs arent human. I dont think you would get a positive response if you decided to poo in the street either


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Nat28 said:


> But dogs arent human. I dont think you would get a positive response if you decided to poo in the street either


Doesn't stop me though.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> Kicking it was a bit ott. I think if a newbie wrote this they would be ripped to shreds


As far as i'm concerned, I am a newbie because I know very few people on this forum, and vice versa.

We all have a responsibility to keep our dogs safe. I read numerous times, and on here very recently, where dogs are approaching other dogs, and people when it's perhaps not welcomed. Rightly or wrongly, there are people out there (yes, me included) who will take offence at the kind of dog we came across today. It didnt just potter over, have a quick sniff and move on, it was harassing my dogs by quite roughly shoving it's nose in their nethers, shoving and pushing etc and not taking the hint.
My point being that although a dog may be friendly, it could get hurt by approaching the wrong dog or person, even something as simple as an elderly person who feels scared and hits a dog with their walking stick. Dog owner then gets angry when they should have had control of their dog in the first place so they are the ones to blame. It's not just about etiquette and personal space, it's about keeping our dogs from harm too.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

If i was the man i would have made a sharp exit too. Someone kicked my dog and then started coming towards me shouting i would have cra**ed myself


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I dont think Id have a problem booting a 'friendly' dog and I have done so before (also thrown a few punches too!). Usually coz some moron is happily watching their dog 'play' with mine in a lovely game of chase......whilst my dog is running as fast as it can to get away, screaming in fear and Im shouting at them to get their dog!!
It takes 2 to make a friendly meeting and if the other dog is upset, scared, or intimidated then that 'friendly' dog has become a bully and a menace! Also if the owner ignores obvious signs of distress from the other owner and dog then they are just as bad IMO.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Gemmaa said:


> Doesn't stop me though.


Lol


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Sorry, but I don't think she had much choice in the ciircomstances. I think, I would have done the same to a completely out of control dog pestering Holly like that


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

I would understand an aggressive dog but i cant understand doing it to a friendly one. I would have just said to the owner my dog gets stressed with ither dogs please come get your dog


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> I dont think Id have a problem booting a 'friendly' dog and I have done so before (also thrown a few punches too!). Usually coz some moron is happily watching their dog 'play' with mine in a lovely game of chase......whilst my dog is running as fast as it can to get away, screaming in fear and Im shouting at them to get their dog!!
> *It takes 2 to make a friendly meeting and if the other dog is upset, scared, or intimidated then that 'friendly' dog has become a bully and a menace! Also if the owner ignores obvious signs of distress from the other owner and dog then they are just as bad IMO*.


Exactly!! I could see the man watching me struggle and he would have been able to hear me shouting but to be honest, he came across as a coward. He obviously saw the trouble his dog was causing, knew he'd probably get a mouthful from me and was too spineless to face me. Had I not been in the middle of my work day then I would have continued to walk the length of the field to catch him up and tell him to his face rather than shouting at him across the park.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> I would understand an aggressive dog but i cant understand doing it to a friendly one. I would have just said to the owner my dog gets stressed with ither dogs please come get your dog


The owner was about 200 yards away...


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

two Weimaraners and a cross breed today who wanted to bounce all over Benny my beagle who at nearly 12 really doesnt need that kind of attention..

They were friendly but annoying and the owner couldnt see the problem until Benny lost his temper and lunged for one of them.....


Theres saying hello and theres unwanted attention the two are very different


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

I don't really agree with kicking a dog just for being annoying. I have a reactive dog who would probably have been going insane in this instance, but I still can't see me kicking someone elses dog. Personally i'd have gained control of my dogs (which I see you did) and just walked away. Eventually the Lab would've got bored of following or would have returned to his owner. One thing I CERTAINLY wouldn't have done is then walk in their direction purely to cause a confrontation  well - maybe if I hadn't have had a reactive dog with me then I might have approached him, but why then walk towards them with a reactive dog? Surely the better option would be to walk away, not follow them and cause a confrontation and more stress.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I can understand where your were coming from with regards the kick, not something I think I would do myself but I can see why you went there. Poor lab having an owner that is prepared to stand back and let him get himself in some bother. What a coward! I had to laugh a little at him beating a hasty retreat with you shouting after him though! 

I know that in the heat of the moment it is so easy to get caught up and want to go on the attack when something like that happens, but it is fruitless - the guy will still let his lab do what it likes and try to hide in the bushes while it does so!  The best thing to do is probably to walk away - but I do understand the desire to go and give someone like that what for!

Ladybower is lovely isn't it? I grew up in the SW of Sheffield and that whole area out in the Peaks still has a special place in my heart. 

And Gemmaa - thanks for the laugh.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Tigerneko said:


> I don't really agree with kicking a dog just for being annoying. I have a reactive dog who would probably have been going insane in this instance, but I still can't see me kicking someone elses dog. Personally i'd have gained control of my dogs (which I see you did) and just walked away. Eventually the Lab would've got bored of following or would have returned to his owner. One thing I CERTAINLY wouldn't have done is then walk in their direction purely to cause a confrontation  well - maybe if I hadn't have had a reactive dog with me then I might have approached him, but *why then walk towards them with a reactive dog?* Surely the better option would be to walk away, not follow them and cause a confrontation and more stress.


As I got closer I was going to put my dogs in a stay a safe distance away (especially as he had put his lab on a lead at this point), I wasnt totally consumed by anger that I hadnt already worked that out. So, the owner semi hides, stands watching me struggle, watches my dog becoming stressed, doesnt have the sense about him to do something to help get HIS dog under control, and i'm supposed to take that on the chin? Sorry, he got me on the wrong day because i'm fed up of having to deal with numpties like him and deal with situations they cause whilst they sneak away scott free.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

If a strange over friendly dog came over to Mavis and would not go away, and it was stressing her out, which it most likely would . If this went on for some time, I may have been tempted tbh. Friendly or not , My dog and her feelings are my priority ..


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

I would never kick another dog unless it was aggressive. Ellie is 5months old now (sbt) and her recal is 99%. If someone kicked her for greeting..... id rip there hair out!


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> But dogs arent human. *I dont think you would get a positive response if you decided to poo in the street either *


LMFAO! :lol:


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

biggreys said:


> I would never kick another dog unless it was aggressive. Ellie is 5months old now (sbt) and her recal is 99%. If someone kicked her for greeting..... id rip there hair out!


I have already explained this wasnt just a 'greeting'. I dont kick a dog lightly, and it would never enter my head to just kick a dog as it came over to say hello (however annoying I find it). If you had read my posts, you would have seen this dog had overstepped the mark in a big way, even the way it came charging over from 150 yards away at full speed indicated it's character and determination.

Would you kick a dog when it was aggressive because your dog was being harmed or potentially harmed? One of my dogs was suffering because of the interaction, not physically, but mentally, and alas, the latter tends to linger and cause more harm than the former. Also, there is the assumption that my own dogs have no physical problems that a large, intent, boisterous Labrador isnt going to exacerbate.

Kicking a dog for being aggressive and kicking a dog for being overfriendly and rude stems from the same concern - that of the welfare of our dogs.

As you can tell, the whole 'the dog was friendly so didnt deserve it' sentiment annoys me. I'm pretty sure that man who squeezed my arse in the pub was being friendly too but I doubt many people would argue he didnt deserve a slap.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

I HATE the owners who can see you struggling but are too embarrassed to come over and get their dogs. Ive had it before and the woman, no lie, was a speck in the distance watching her dog, harass Dottie. 

I dont know what to do when a dog harrasses us, if I get REALLY annoyed and shout out, they dont come over, if I try and walk away Dottie has her back to them and they jump on her making things 100 times worse.

I dont think I would be able to kick a dog, unless it was hell bent on ripping my dog to bit, Id be scared it would bite my leg!

Its such a shame some owners dont give a damn what happens to their dogs. Next time it may not be a kick, but a throat ripped out approaching a DA onlead or off lead if the other owner is irresponsible, they just don't seem to care


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

biggreys said:


> I would never kick another dog unless it was aggressive. Ellie is 5months old now (sbt) and her recal is 99%. If someone kicked her for greeting..... id rip there hair out!


Presumably though you also wouldnt stand there and watch whilst your dog said hello to another that was actively trying to avoid it, ignore requests to retreive her and then run away when someone told you off for it!!


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> I have already explained this wasnt just a 'greeting'. I dont kick a dog lightly, and it would never enter my head to just kick a dog as it came over to say hello (however annoying I find it). If you had read my posts, you would have seen this dog had overstepped the mark in a big way, even the way it came charging over from 150 yards away at full speed indicated it's character and determination.
> 
> Would you kick a dog when it was aggressive because your dog was being harmed or potentially harmed? One of my dogs was suffering because of the interaction, not physically, but mentally, and alas, the latter tends to linger and cause more harm than the former. Also, there is the assumption that my own dogs have no physical problems that a large, intent, boisterous Labrador isnt going to exacerbate.
> 
> ...


You cant compare the two. Dogs are dogs with dog natures. Thats like saying what if a man came ad sniffed my croch then tried to pee on me. Cant compare. Anyway what if the dog had some muscle /boe etc disease and by kickig it you seriously hurt it or crippled it all because it wanted to say hello


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

point taken, if Ellie did greet and run towards any dog, id be running after her and apologizing and checking you and ur dogs are ok whilst putting mine on a lead. this guy was an idiot but i wouldn't of kicked his dog, just my opinion.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Could you not have put your dogs in a down stay and led it back to its owner by the scruff (since its collar came off)?

Maybe you shouldn't take all your dogs out at once if you find it difficult to control them all when a bouncy dog comes over.

Obviously this man is an idiot, but there are better ways of handling the situation and you know the majority of people are clueless when it comes to dog walking etiquette.. So why put yourself in the situation where you get very stressed and on the edge of a panic attack?

Personally I don't think kicking a dog is a huge deal as long as you didn't dig it with your toe.

Also, a bouncy dog isn't an excuse for a dog breaking a sit stay, if you have a reactive dog it's probably a good idea to work on this so all you have to worry about is the other dog.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Nat28 said:


> Anyway what if the dog had some muscle /boe etc disease and by kickig it you seriously hurt it or crippled it all because it wanted to say hello


I would say it was the irresponsible owners fault in that case! If he had a dog that was that out of control and made no effort to protect it, you cant blame other people for trying to protect their dogs from unwanted stress. What if the OPs dog had some illness or behaviourial problem and didnt appreciate several stone of over enthusiastic Lab barging into them??


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> I would say it was the irresponsible owners fault in that case! If he had a dog that was that out of control and made no effort to protect it, you cant blame other people for trying to protect their dogs from unwanted stress. What if the OPs dog had some illness or behaviourial problem and didnt appreciate several stone of over enthusiastic Lab barging into them??


Exactly the owners fault. Not the dogs fault. He was being a dog ad didnt deserve a kick


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> I would understand an aggressive dog but i cant understand doing it to a friendly one. I would have just said to the owner my dog gets stressed with ither dogs please come get your dog


But the thing is, 9 times out of 10 they _don't_ come and get their dog. They either don't even acknowledge you or you get the whole "oh he's just being friendly" line. You can have your dog muzzled, on leash and in a headlock and this is still the attitude you get.


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

but on the other hand you cant work with your dog beyond a long line unless you let them off lead and try.......


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

The other owner was totally in the wrong. I don't disagree with you there; he was bang out of order.

And as the owner of a very reactive dog, I know how frustrating and exhausting it can be when other dogs charge over and your dog is going over threshold. So I do get where you're coming from.

I would not kick a dog unless it was aggressive but that's just my own viewpoint. I would rather walk off with my oIwn dog and leave the other owner to haplessly chase after me.

There are times when Dex has been off lead and we've been practising recall and he's disobeyed and gone racing over to greet another dog. I've always followed straight away and apologised profusely, but if the other dog owner kicked Dexter then I would be SO upset. Yes, it's my fault that my dog has run over, but again, for me personally *kicking is a last resort*. Just my opinion.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

So, I have a very nervous, timid dog who if got the chance would flee from an over friendly dog ( i'm not just talking about a sniff) the owner of the other dog ignores everything that's going on, what should I do in this situation?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

biggreys said:


> but on the other hand you cant work with your dog beyond a long line unless you let them off lead and try.......


No, you can't. But if your dog _does_ go haring over to annoy someone elses then you should be right behind it with an apology, not hiding or ignoring the situation like so many owners do.

I'd be mortified if Spencer went running up to another dog and hurt or frightened it. It doesn't matter that he's friendly and just wants to play. All the dogs who flattened my elderly and infirm collie were friendly and just wanted to play. It didn't stop him being hurt. Most of the ones who rushed up to greet my mutt were friendly (apparently) but it didn't stop him trying to beat them to death with his muzzle. Either side can get hurt in this sort of situation.


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## ebonyblack (Sep 16, 2011)

I see both sides the the story but I feel uncomfortable about kicking a dog that wasn't aggressive. It's a shame the owner wasn't in reach to kick  that's if he was a lazy thoughtless idiot and not a scared old bloke with partial sight that had limited mobility (unlikely I know). 

As long as your dogs and the over friendly lab are okay that's the main thing in all this. I would be careful with that course of action though just in case a stranger turns nasty.


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## ebonyblack (Sep 16, 2011)

ebonyblack said:


> I see both sides the the story but I feel uncomfortable about kicking a dog that wasn't aggressive. It's a shame the owner wasn't in reach to kick  that's if he was a lazy thoughtless idiot and not a scared old bloke with partial sight that had limited mobility (unlikely I know).
> 
> As long as your dogs and the over friendly lab are okay that's the main thing in all this. I would be careful with that course of action though just in case a stranger turns nasty.


 I meant the kicking the owner part- thats a lame joke


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

i said on my post before last if Ellie was to run after another dog i would be apologizing, she so far has done this twice in 40-50walks, if she was kicked for it like i said id go nuts. She doesn't jump up but will crawl over with her tail going 100mph, no threat and 9 times out of 10 its the person she wants attention from not the other dog.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

biggreys said:


> i said on my post before last if Ellie was to run after another dog i would be apologizing, she so far has done this twice in 40-50walks, if she was kicked for it like i said id go nuts. She doesn't jump up but will crawl over with her tail going 100mph, no threat and 9 times out of 10 its the person she wants attention from not the other dog.


there is being friendly and over friendly..If Ellie behaved like this to mine I would think she was lovely...there is a huge difference.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm with you Leanne on this one.

Some owners just do not care what there dogs does and to whom, Chance isn't aggressive but very reactive to a dog getting in his face as he can't go off lead. Now if the owner comes over gets there dog I will keep Chance away and they meet at a distance, if i shout to the owner and they do nothing or walk off as alot have then i have no problem letting the boys 'correct' the dog and shoving it away. 

Chance tends to pin dogs and everything calms down and yet owners will see this and still walk away


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> there is being friendly and over friendly..If Ellie behaved like this to mine I would think she was lovely...there is a huge difference.


yes there is a huge difference  i vote kick the owner


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

biggreys said:


> yes there is a huge difference  i vote kick the owner


me too  with a steel toecap :yikes:


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> there is being friendly and over friendly..If Ellie behaved like this to mine I would think she was lovely...there is a huge difference.





paddyjulie said:


> me too  with a steel toecap :yikes:


OH has some steel toe caps... he can do the honors


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

biggreys said:


> OH has some steel toe caps... he can do the honors


it's fine I have my own


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> it's fine I have my own


il help


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

To be honest I don't blame you at all, especially as it sounds like it was a last resort for you.

"Friendly" dogs like that are the reason our eldest never got over his fear of other dogs and of being outside our property where they might be lurking. However much work we put in it was inevitably ruined by some over eager dog coming bouncing all over him whilst he was screaming on the floor wetting himself. 

I have no problem with a dog having a blip and running over with apologetic owner in pursuit trying to get their dog back. They're dogs, it's to be expected from time to time and although it can be frustrating I can deal with that. It's the people who just let their dogs go where they want and harass who they want without making the vaguest effort to exert any kind of control.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Shrap said:


> Could you not have put your dogs in a down stay and led it back to its owner by the scruff (since its collar came off)?
> 
> *Maybe you shouldn't take all your dogs out at once if you find it difficult to control them all when a bouncy dog comes over.*
> 
> ...


My control with 3 dogs is far superior to most folk i've met who only own 1 dog. And 3 dogs isnt the issue, it's just the one dog and he would react the same regardless of whether the other 2 are there or not. So I could walk him alone 100% of the time and it wouldnt make a difference. It's dogs such as todays Labrador which have caused him to become the way he is, he never used to react so unfavourably. Yes, maybe I should work on this with him more than i'm trying to but how far is another dog allowed to go before my dog tells it off, or should he accept every bad behaviour that he doesnt like, every behaviour that he finds threatening?

I agree that a dog should not break a stay for most distractions, but when another dog has come round the side of my dog, stuffed it's nose to his sheath and virtually lifted him into a stand, I am happy for my dog to break his stay.



biggreys said:


> i said on my post before last if Ellie was to run after another dog i would be apologizing, she so far has done this twice in 40-50walks, if she was kicked for it like i said id go nuts. She doesn't jump up but will crawl over with her tail going 100mph, no threat and 9 times out of 10 its the person she wants attention from not the other dog.


But thats not how I behaved, I didnt immediately go in swinging my wellies at this dog. Had the man come running over then my course of action would have been very different.

Oh, there is somebody who asked why I didnt take hold of the dog and return it to it's owner. The answer is I wasnt 100% sure who it's owner was as it wasnt obvious because the dog was never close to him. I had my suspicions but it wasnt until the dog ran back and went to him that I was sure.

I dont doubt there was a better way to handle it, and I shall try the walking off technique next time but when you are there, trying to deal with a situation alone, you do what pops into your head at the time.


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## BananaBassett (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't _think_ I would kick the dog, but to be honest, I don't think I would really ever know until I was in that situation. I do give people a mouthful if they let their dogs bowl mine over and say "he's friendly", when actually, i don't give a FLYING crap if they're friendly, they're upsetting mine!! As this guy was making no effort to catch his dog, or even acknowledge that it was his, i think i'd have got pretty mad too. He was obviously a complete tool to watch you struggle and eventually kick his dog, I'd have gone mental even if mine was being a pest! Mind you, i would have apologised and had my dog under control, you wouldnt have needed to boot him


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I'm always made a bit wary by threads like this. Bess is still a youngster, and is still learning her way in life. She's actually very good with other dogs most of the time. When she sees a strange dog approaching she'll go into a down, and wait to see if its friendly. If the dogs on a lead ill have put her on first anyway. If its not ill let her go up to it. She's very respectful of older dogs, and she'll come away very quickly when told. In fact better than my old dogs. 

When we were walking along the top of the sea wall we couldn't see round the bend, and couldn't see that a woman was walking along the bottom with a JRT until Bess had already spotted it and was off. Bess did her normal playboy in front of the JRT (which was on a lead). The JRT snarled and flew forwards and Bess shot back to us like a bat out of hell. Now I'm not upset by this as Bess needs to have her cautiousness reinforced. But the woman was shouting at me for some reason. I wasn't sure why. Bess had done no harm. Ok, she ran up quite quickly, but ran away just as fast. There is no way she would retaliate. Unless Bess had been on the lead there would have been no way to avoid this. I've hardly seen anyone walking in the bottom so didn't expect this. The woman was obviously cross, but I couldn't see what harm had been done. Bess hadn't been rude - she'd simply run up to see if it wanted to play, and then when it hadn't, run away again

We cannot walk our dogs in the isolated surroundings we might want to (although I love to see dogs playing with each other). I would hate to think someone would ever kick Bess just for being playful and friendly. Sometimes things I read make me think we're getting very intolerant, and very selfish of what we see as our own rights to walk at a certain place at a certain time. 

Not saying the person in the OP's post mightn't have been in the wrong, but kicking a non threatening dog cannot have been the right action. Don't blame the dog for the fault of the owner.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> You cant compare the two. Dogs are dogs with dog natures. Thats like saying what if a man came ad sniffed my croch then tried to pee on me. Cant compare. *Anyway what if the dog had some muscle /boe etc disease and by kickig it you seriously hurt it or crippled it all because it wanted to say hello*


I'll throw that back at you...What if my dog had some muscle or bone disease and your over enthusiastic dog with no manners jumped on mine and seriously hurt or crippled it, just because it wanted to say hello?


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

The dog was being a dog. It was the owner at fault


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

BessieDog said:


> I'm always made a bit wary by threads like this. Bess is still a youngster, and is still learning her way in life. She's actually very good with other dogs most of the time. When she sees a strange dog approaching she'll go into a down, and wait to see if its friendly. If the dogs on a lead ill have put her on first anyway. If its not ill let her go up to it. She's very respectful of older dogs, and she'll come away very quickly when told. In fact better than my old dogs.
> 
> When we were walking along the top of the sea wall we couldn't see round the bend, and couldn't see that a woman was walking along the bottom with a JRT until Bess had already spotted it and was off. Bess did her normal playboy in front of the JRT (which was on a lead). The JRT snarled and flew forwards and Bess shot back to us like a bat out of hell. Now I'm not upset by this as Bess needs to have her cautiousness reinforced. But the woman was shouting at me for some reason. I wasn't sure why. Bess had done no harm. Ok, she ran up quite quickly, but ran away just as fast. There is no way she would retaliate. Unless Bess had been on the lead there would have been no way to avoid this. I've hardly seen anyone walking in the bottom so didn't expect this. The woman was obviously cross, but I couldn't see what harm had been done. Bess hadn't been rude - she'd simply run up to see if it wanted to play, and then when it hadn't, run away again
> 
> ...


I need to come for a walk with you  
its starting to feel like you cant let your dog off anywhere...


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> The dog was being a dog. It was the owner at fault


I know it was the owner at fault, but the owner wasnt the one harassing my dogs. Besides, my own dogs dont behave like that so I disagree about it's behaviour being typical of a dog.

But you didnt answer my throwback question. Would it have been ok if the actions of the friendly dog caused physical harm to my dogs, who may be in ill health? It seems friendly dogs can get away with anything. In that case, i'll let my male collie run riot, i'm sure he'd absolutely love that, especially as he likes to hump and generally be cocky.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

biggreys said:


> I need to come for a walk with you
> its starting to feel like you cant let your dog off anywhere...


Ill come to you! I love Somerset! :


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

BessieDog said:


> Not saying the person in the OP's post mightn't have been in the wrong, but kicking a non threatening dog cannot have been the right action. Don't blame the dog for the fault of the owner.


The thing is though, just because _we_ understand the behaviour isn't threatening doesn't mean that a nervous or fearful dog will understand that.

I don't think anyone here would kick a dog the minute it came over or if the owner was making efforts to get it under control. In the OP's situation though it sounds like every other effort had been made to get the dog to sod off and she resorted to a tap with her foot to get rid of it.

It _is_ unfair to for the dog to get a kick when it's the owner at fault but if the owner is making no efforts to resolve the situation then I'm afraid my dogs' well being comes first and if a kick/shove with my foot is the only option I have left then I will do it.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

I did reply. The dog was being a dog. Maybe not a perfect dog like some ppl own but just a dog. How would a dog be able to comprehend if jumping up a ill dog can make it worse, they cant. Humans can comprehend kicking a dog may make it worse


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

BessieDog said:


> Ill come to you! I love Somerset! :


awww, iv never been to essex


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm sure there is a law that states you must have control over your dog, correct me if i'm wrong. So yes, by all means have your dog off lead, I dont think anybody has said you shouldnt, certainly not me as I would cease owning dogs if they had to be on lead all the time. But please, make sure you have control over it and give some consideration to other users of the area you are in.

It's funny because one one hand, there is the impression some people may get that society is becoming more anti dog, and other dog walkers are becoming anti social. I see it the other way. I see that more and more people think they can let their dog off a lead and it's free to do as it chooses. I wonder why laws about dog control are becoming tighter, and more places are banning dogs


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Leanne77 said:


> Would it have been ok if the actions of the friendly dog caused physical harm to my dogs, who may be in ill health? It seems friendly dogs can get away with anything. In that case, i'll let my male collie run riot, i'm sure he'd absolutely love that, especially as he likes to hump and generally be cocky.


Surely anyone with a dog that was at such a high risk of getting injured would avoid dog populated areas? Maybe stick to street walks or very quiet areas.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> I did reply. The dog was being a dog. Maybe not a perfect dog like some ppl own but just a dog. How would a dog be able to comprehend if jumping up a ill dog can make it worse, they cant. Humans can comprehend kicking a dog may make it worse


No, the dog doesnt have the capability to think of the possible consequences its actions may cause. It's owner does though, thats why they should check before letting it approach. Result could be the same at the end of the day though - an injured dog - regardless of intent or thought processes behind it.

And I still disagree the dog was being a dog, not every dog behaves that way.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Im sure there are laws on kicking no agressive dogs


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

The behaviour of the lab, running up at full pelt and refusing to be seen off and sticking it's head in the other dogs' bits is rude dog behaviour, not polite friendly behaviour.

I think most people who have dogs that need a bit of space are reasonably tolerant of polite dogs who approach (due to some error, i.e. not seeing round corners and recall fail) but quickly go again when it is clear they aren't wanted/they are recalled or dragged away by an appologetic owner. The woman shouting at you Bessiedog was being a touch intolerant in my view, Bessie came straight away from her dog - she'd have had a case to be mad is Bessie had pestered and pestered and you'd done nothing about it.

A dog leaping all over another, jamming it's nose up backsides etc and an owner doing NOTHING about it is not acceptable, and not just dogs being dogs.

I was thinking about what to do in this situation and it would actually be tempting (if your dog could cope with it) to stick a lead on the offending dog and walk off with it away from the owner!  I know that's a bit evil but it'd spur them into action wouldn't it? If not you've got a new dog!


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> No, the dog doesnt have the capability to think of the possible consequences its actions may cause. It's owner does though, thats why they should check before letting it approach. Result could be the same at the end of the day though - an injured dog - regardless of intent or thought processes behind it.
> 
> And I still disagree the dog was being a dog, not every dog behaves that way.


Most dogs instinct when they see another dog is to come up and sniff,


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Tigerneko said:


> Surely anyone with a dog that was at such a high risk of getting injured would avoid dog populated areas? Maybe stick to street walks or very quiet areas.


Thats very easy to say but there are numerous possibilities why that isnt always feasible. Little old lady who cant walk very far but her back gate leads out onto the park, blah blah blah.

We could go round and round all day with these arguments, throwing out scenarios to each other. I did what I did, cant change it now. Do I feel bad about it and remorseful? Not really, and i'd do it again if I felt it was a last resort. But, i'll give the walking away thing a try, see how that pans out.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

If i kicked a friendly dog no matter how much in the right i thought i was i would still feel remorseful


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

I am completely with the OP on this one and if it was me i would have done the same. I have a very fearful dog, so fearful that if a dog approaches her when we are out she will climb up me like a monkey to get away from it, even if it is crawling up to her/approaching slowly. I have been working really hard with her on this and she is finally progressing. She even had 2 playdates this week with my dads 6 dogs. I think the big reason why these playdates went so well is because my dads dogs are the most laid back dogs i have met. She walked in, they looked at her, watched her for a while then had a sniff as they walked past her or when they went out.

If i was approached like the op and her dogs were then i would be doing the same as i know for a fact that it only takes one dog to ruin years of hard work, trying to get her to relax. If someone shouts to me is it okay if they meet i will say yes but it has to be controlled.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> Im sure there are laws on kicking no agressive dogs


Well, that all depends. As a cruelty case, yes. With regards to protecting my property (my dogs) from something I perceive to be a threat, then no. I think it would be a tough case to get a conviction on. As I stated about out of control dogs being against the law, nobody else was there, I feared me and my dogs were in danger 



Werehorse said:


> The behaviour of the lab, running up at full pelt and refusing to be seen off and sticking it's head in the other dogs' bits is rude dog behaviour, not polite friendly behaviour.
> 
> I think most people who have dogs that need a bit of space are reasonably tolerant of polite dogs who approach (due to some error, i.e. not seeing round corners and recall fail) but quickly go again when it is clear they aren't wanted/they are recalled or dragged away by an appologetic owner. The woman shouting at you Bessiedog was being a touch intolerant in my view, Bessie came straight away from her dog - she'd have had a case to be mad is Bessie had pestered and pestered and you'd done nothing about it.
> 
> ...


It's funny you should mention that as the thought did pop into my head at one point during this thread. I wondered what he might have done had I appeared to be kidnapping his pooch!



Nat28 said:


> Most dogs instinct when they see another dog is to come up and sniff,


I'm not even going to say this again, said it too many times already. The dog wasnt just sniffing, it was harassing. In the dog world, that is impolite and NOT normal behaviour for any well adjusted dog.

Well, if nothing, this thread is keeping me busy until Corrie comes on.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

It is so easy to sit in a nice cosy room with a sleeping dog at my feet and say "I would ever kick a dog whatever it did".
But I would if that happened to Holly, she is old and does not need that sort of treatment. If it did not stop and go away and the owner was hiding I would do all I could to protect my dog, and I suspect a lot of people would in the spur of the moment to protect their dogs


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Nat28 said:


> If i kicked a friendly dog no matter how much in the right i thought i was i would still feel remorseful


me too....but I would feel even worse if I allowed it to continue and my own dogs needs were ignored.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I'd probably kick a dog under some circumstances. I will never fathom how a dog owner can not be paying attention to their dog or not try to intervene if they run up to someone. I'm not perfect, Kes is still young and very excitable, she has approached dogs and people when off lead, but you can bet your ass I'm right behind her like a shot to apologise and get her away.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Say you had a dog who was friendly and you gmhad it off lead. It ran ahead of you before you can stop it. It goes uo to another dog and the dogs ownr kicks your dog. You cant say you would be like oh thats ok


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

Id only kick a dog if it was attacking. Ellie had a bad past, if she was kicked god no's what it would of done to her confidence


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Nat28 said:


> Say you had a dog who was friendly and you gmhad it off lead. It ran ahead of you before you can stop it. It goes uo to another dog and the dogs ownr kicks your dog. You cant say you would be like oh thats ok


I don't think Leanne would do that. She's already stated while it's problematic for her dogs when this does happen and the owner comes right over and apologises and takes their dog away she is fine with that so why are you throwing that out as a possibility?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Nat28 said:


> Say you had a dog who was friendly and you gmhad it off lead. It ran ahead of you before you can stop it. It goes uo to another dog and the dogs ownr kicks your dog. You cant say you would be like oh thats ok


there is a difference between a dog being freindly and a dog being a bleeding pest ..


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> there is a difference between a dog being freindly and a dog being a bleeding pest ..


Mine is a pest quite often, which is why I try my best never to put her in a position where she can be so.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Im trying to get the ppl who think its ok to see how they would feel if it happened to their dog. Not everyone is perfect with perfect dogs, well some on here seem to be lol. But i really think kicking a friendly dog is wrong


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> Mine is a pest quite often, which is why I try my best never to put her in a position where she can be so.


and that's being a good owner imo.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Nat28 said:


> Im trying to get the ppl who think its ok to see how they would feel if it happened to their dog. Not everyone is perfect with perfect dogs, well some on here seem to be lol. But i really think kicking a friendly dog is wrong


I don't think a rude dog is a friendly dog.

My dog is very rude at times. I don't pretend she's 'just friendly'. She will run over to dogs, jump over small ones like they're fences, she's gotten over jumping and pawing at dogs faces 99% of the time but she also used to do that. Someone being friendly doesn't come and slap you in the face thinking it's funny.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> Say you had a dog who was friendly and you gmhad it off lead. It ran ahead of you before you can stop it. It goes uo to another dog and the dogs ownr kicks your dog. You cant say you would be like oh thats ok


Nope, thats not ok but that is not what I did, and not what anybody has said they would do.
You are taking this out of perspective, please dont make it seem as though the dog ran up to us and I kicked it straight off as I made it clear in my opening post that I tried stopping it from approaching in the first place, then I tried shooing it, shouting, pushing it and taking hold of it's collar. THEN I kicked it, not before I had tried other things.

I'm assuming that whilst your dog is saying hello in this scenario, you are hot on it's heels to fetch it back? If yes, then your dog is not at risk of being kicked, not by me anyway. If you are ignoring it, then yes, eventually your dog may feel my toe if I cannot get it to go away.


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## BananaBassett (Apr 24, 2012)

Nat28 said:


> Im trying to get the ppl who think its ok to see how they would feel if it happened to their dog. Not everyone is perfect with perfect dogs, well some on here seem to be lol. But i really think kicking a friendly dog is wrong


Every body would be fuming. But that is because im sure all of the people HERE would not be pretending it wasnt their dog, and ignoring the situation.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

wow! disgusting.  you, btw not the other dog. 

yes the owner was an idiot but the dog did not attack your dogs so how dare you kick it?! if someone dared to kick my dog then came running at me ranting they would of had a hell of a mouthful back!

the man should of been paying attention but you could of walked the dog towards him and said something or shouted on the man to call his dog. no need to kick the poor thing. especially if it was not aggressive, whilst you may have a reactive dog you can't go around kicking dogs you don't like and you getting so stressed is not helpful for your reactive dog you are just showing him that something is wrong. learn to control your temper in future.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

There is a difference between a rude and agressive dog also


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Nat28 said:


> There is a difference between a rude and agressive dog also


Rude dogs often make other dogs aggressive...


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I have kicked two friendly dogs - they are our 'nemesis' in that I have put an awful lot of work into getting Kilo less afraid of rapidly approaching offlead labs and this pair are full - on pelt up and full body contact excitable dogs. A few months ago they appeared from two fields away with owner still not onto the fields so not in sight. They did their usual rapid approach and Kilo scuttled between my knees with his tail glued to his stomach and I tried to see them off with my voice and a few stamps etc. I ended up falling over in the chaos as dealing with two dogs intent on wrestling as your own turns rapid circles isn't easy. I got back up and Kilo was cowering so I ended up kicking them away before he resorted to noise and slobber as that's not what I want to happen.

Am I sorry I kicked them? Yes, because they are nice dogs but I'd do it again in a flash. As it was our training took a huge step back that day and does every single time they approach like that. What I do not want to end up with is Kilo learning to be aggressive in order to see them off.

As everyone else says - huge difference in a dog approaching boisterously with an owner that cares and will recall / fetch them etc as we've all been there and either absent owners or those who won't take action themselves. Had the dogs been followed by their owner attempting to help me by getting the dogs then I never would have kicked them.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2012)

I canst not say what I would do in such a situation, since it has not happened to me, so I shall not make judgements however, I think some of you are being quite unfair. People get angry and will do things, you don`t think you would ever do, however unless you are in such a situation you shall never know I think. 
Hope I made sense lol


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Tigerneko said:


> Surely anyone with a dog that was at such a high risk of getting injured would avoid dog populated areas? Maybe stick to street walks or very quiet areas.


I used to take my infirm collie to the fields because he still enjoyed his walks, still enjoyed playing fetch and interacting with his few doggy friends. Why should we have had to stop doing that and stuck to boring street walks because a few people refused to control their dogs? And yeah, I think if a dog had been constantly pestering him, knocking him down and trampling him I would have kicked it. As it was I never needed to as he was more than capable of expressing his displeasure in a such a way that these dogs suddenly discovered they did have manners after all.

Of course Shadow then got called vicious so it was pretty much a lose lose situation.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Agressive dogs will also be agressive towards friendly dogs or even to just dogs walking past


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> Im trying to get the ppl who think its ok to see how they would feel if it happened to their dog. *Not everyone is perfect with perfect dogs, well some on here seem to be *lol. But i really think kicking a friendly dog is wrong


If that is aimed at me, I will be the first to tell you of my dogs downfalls, of which there are many. I am under no illusion they are angels and I have perfect control over them, that would be a dangerous thought to have.
However, I do a pretty good job of keeping them in check and when I fail, I am there to sort it out, with an apology and a flea in my dogs ear.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Nat28 said:


> There is a difference between a rude and agressive dog also


There is a difference to me and you..but my bull terrier would fear both ..so no difference to her


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> If that is aimed at me, I will be the first to tell you of my dogs downfalls, of which there are many. I am under no illusion they are angels and I have perfect control over them, that would be a dangerous thought to have.
> However, I do a pretty good job of keeping them in check and when I fail, I am there to sort it out, with an apology and a flea in my dogs ear.


IT was aimed at no one inpaticular


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## BananaBassett (Apr 24, 2012)

This is daft. Of course it isn't right to just BOOT a dog. But OP tried many "shooing" methods, and if her dog had gone loopy loo i think it would have received more than a light nudge of the foot, by her DOG.

She was simply protecting her own like ALL of you would if you felt uncomfortable / like your dog was at threat. If that dog was being bolshy and rude BEFORE OP's dog kicked off, imagine its reaction if it had? Phoolf is right, rude dogs often lead to aggressive dogs - be it the rude one or the one being made to feel uncomfortable.

No it's not acceptable to kick dogs but i think this is blown wildly out of proportion. Im sure she didnt try to beat the day lights out of it, just get it to leave - its not really any different to shoving a dog away - its still force, and whilst i do not agree with forcefuless or dominance theories, i know for a fact i would think nothing of pushing a dog away from my dog, ESPECIALLY if i knew he was gonna flip out and cause a problem.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Im sorry but why did you kick it more then once?

Not that i condone one kick to a dog that showed no aggression and there wasnt even a hint of a fight, but what one didn't do it for you?

Awful. A dog run up to alfie tonight offlead in the street and scared him as he was sniffing a tree and he rushed behind him. He was a hyped up collie but i distracted him and tried to calm him down. I wouldnt kick an innocent dog.


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

Oh dear I think I would be very upset if someone kicked my dog. I admit when he was off lead in the early days he could be a pest.No one ever said so,but he used to love running up to greet any dog.Never aggresively just playful.I think other dogs intrigued him as in his previous life he didnt get taken out for long walks.Spent 6-8 hours alone all day,so all a novelty to him I think. I can see it from both sides as other dogs have annoyed mine on 2 occasions and didnt return to their owners when called. But I couldnt kick someone elses dog unless they were aggressive and it was the only way to get them off,then I may have to re think especially if Bramble was at risk of being hurt.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> wow! disgusting.  you, btw not the other dog.
> 
> yes the owner was an idiot but the dog did not attack your dogs so how dare you kick it?! if someone dared to kick my dog then came running at me ranting they would of had a hell of a mouthful back!
> 
> the man should of been paying attention but you could of walked the dog towards him and said something or shouted on the man to call his dog. no need to kick the poor thing. especially if it was not aggressive, whilst you may have a reactive dog you can't go around kicking dogs you don't like and you getting so stressed is not helpful for your reactive dog you are just showing him that something is wrong. learn to control your temper in future.


Why on Earth should I go to the courtesy of taking this mans dog back to him, especially since he wasnt interested and showed no courtesy to me? My concern is my own dogs, i'm not taking responsibility for his lack of control, no way! Since there are multiple pages to this thread, i'll forgive you for missing the part where I explained why I didnt shout for him to call his dog (in short, he was 200 yards away and I wasnt positive at that point it was actually his dog).

I know my dogs pick up on my stress but i'll control my temper when other people control their dogs. I'm not a schoolchild BTW :laugh:


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm absolutely convinced that the reaction and actions of the owners in these instances has more of an impact on the dogs future behaviour in similar situations. 

By getting hysterical and over reacting, the dog, in future, will see all approaching dogs as a stressful encounter. Surely staying calm, is the best option.

I love it when a dunce dog comes our way with a half-witted owner standing in the distance embarassed in his/her's inability to recall their dog. I'll always give it the full works with bells on just to rub it in - Get him in close damn smartish then quick repetitions of...sit....down....stand....heel.....down....sit up....stand....etc.

Love doing that. Right ol' laugh.


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## Nat28 (Dec 10, 2011)

Right its time to walk the dog. Ill get my good dog kicking boots on as it seems to be ok (joke ) . Enjoyed discussing this thread and seeing other points of views though im sticking to my guns on this one . Away to put my water proofs on and weather the rain, pun intended lol


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I also think theres a difference to your dog actually kicking off and he may of kicked off.


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## Bonsai (Jun 9, 2012)

I think the owner should have been locked not the dog it only knows what it's been taught and its obviously not a puppy

What a shame you couldn't kick the owner instead :0) 

I don't know if I could kick another dog but I've nt had a dog with emotional distress from other dogs so I will not judge until I'm in that situation myself but it sounds like it was done out of desperation in the situation and most people can relate to that


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Nat28 said:


> Agressive dogs will also be agressive towards friendly dogs or even to just dogs walking past


Not necessarily!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

If a Poster was to put another title...then explain how an off-lead dog bounded over to their on-lead dog...really being a pest, wouldn't shoo away, the dog was jumping all over the OP's dog. The Op's dog was running round in circles, the OP being pulled around too. The dog was cowering, peeing.. all through fear...the OP tried to get the owners attention, he ignored her,, the OP's dog was lying on the ground cowering ...afraid, so the OP kicked the dog to get it to bugger off ,, the replies would have been a lot differnt


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## Redice (Dec 4, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> I'm absolutely convinced that the reaction and actions of the owners in these instances has more of an impact on the dogs future behaviour in similar situations.
> 
> By getting hysterical and over reacting, the dog, in future, will see all approaching dogs as a stressful encounter. Surely staying calm, is the best option.
> 
> ...


I agree with this ^^^^^^ I think that hysterical over reacting by owners is what has more of an impact on their own dogs than anything else does.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> *Im sorry but why did you kick it more then once?*
> 
> Not that i condone one kick to a dog that showed no aggression and there wasnt even a hint of a fight, but what one didn't do it for you?
> 
> Awful. A dog run up to alfie tonight offlead in the street and scared him as he was sniffing a tree and he rushed behind him. He was a hyped up collie but i distracted him and tried to calm him down. I wouldnt kick an innocent dog.


For the same reason I shouted at it more than once, pushed it away more than once...
How do you know there was no hint of a fight? There might have been as my dog got more and more wound up and resorted to lunging, snapping etc. I didnt want it to get to that point, hence my actions.

I knew there was going to be people who found my actions wrong, who were going to disagree with me and I dont have a problem with that at all otherwise I wouldnt have posted.
I didnt enjoy kicking the dog, got no jollies from it but I still make no apologies for doing it. I dont believe in regrets, just opportunities to learn.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Why is it deemed acceptable to kick a dog that's causing physical harm but not one that's causing psychological harm? Just out of curiosity. I know from experience that the psychological trauma can be longer lasting and harder to deal with than the physical.

The only dog I've actually kicked is the one that was hell bent on ending my dogs life by the way.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> For the same reason I shouted at it more than once, pushed it away more than once...
> How do you know there was no hint of a fight? There might have been as my dog got more and more wound up and resorted to lunging, snapping etc. I didnt want it to get to that point, hence my actions.
> 
> I knew there was going to be people who found my actions wrong, who were going to disagree with me and I dont have a problem with that at all otherwise I wouldnt have posted.
> I didnt enjoy kicking the dog, got no jollies from it but I still make no apologies for doing it. I dont believe in regrets, just opportunities to learn.


Only you know what the situation was like. I had to do exactly the same not too long ago and got slated on here for protecting my dog.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

sorry but so many replies on this thread are so clueless. if you've not had a dog that will run off/scream/fight or whatever then you don't really have any right to judge the OP. no, a playful bouncy dog isn't a problem to you, but for those of us with dogs that will be negatively affected by dogs like these, it is a HUGE problem. i wouldn't personally kick a dog (i'm useless and would just panic!) but it's pretty obvious it was a last resort and i don't think you were in the wrong at all.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

rona said:


> Only you know what the situation was like. I had to do exactly the same not too long ago and got slated on here for protecting my dog.


I hope I didnt slate you!  It's easy to say no, I wouldnt do that or yes, I would do that but in the heat of the moment instinct tends to rule your head.


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

Leanne77 said:


> It's easy to say no, I wouldnt do that or yes, I would do that but in the heat of the moment instinct tends to rule your head.


I agree with this.... but what 'I like to think I would have done' is ....put the collar back on the dog, attach my dogs lead and lead it away as the owner [who was pretending not to be the owner!] watched, 
Then, when he started to yell and ask what the hell I was doing, I would reply that I thought it was a stray and was taking it to the police, as you were oblivious to the dogs actions and was hiding!!

.......That what *I* like to think I would do!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> I hope I didnt slate you!  It's easy to say no, I wouldnt do that or yes, I would do that but in the heat of the moment instinct tends to rule your head.


I don't know who did. Didn't really bother me what others thought. I knew the situation and what danger my dog was in. 
I've blocked many a dog, pushed many away, grabbed many by the collar, shouted at a few but on this one occasion ...............


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Gertrude said:


> I agree with this.... but what 'I like to think I would have done' is ....put the collar back on the dog, attach my dogs lead and lead it away as the owner [who was pretending not to be the owner!] watched,
> Then, when he started to yell and ask what the hell I was doing, I would reply that I thought it was a stray and was taking it to the police, as you were oblivious to the dogs actions and was hiding!!
> 
> .......That what *I* like to think I would do!


Have to say its tempting to temporarily dognap dogs where the owners are oblivious, just to teach them to pay more attention.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Gertrude said:


> I agree with this.... but what 'I like to think I would have done' is ....put the collar back on the dog, attach my dogs lead and lead it away as the owner [who was pretending not to be the owner!] watched,
> Then, when he started to yell and ask what the hell I was doing, I would reply that I thought it was a stray and was taking it to the police, as you were oblivious to the dogs actions and was hiding!!
> 
> .......That what *I* like to think I would do!


Sadly it's not something you can do when you've got a reactive dog though lol. I might try it if one's ever pestering Spen :laugh:


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Urgh- what a douchebag of an owner. Dogs like these have been the bane of my life for the last ten years between owing geriatrics, a double ACL surgery case and a tiny. Until you're the loser in these 'fun loving dog' encounters and you've been pushed- you don't know the lengths you would go to, to protect your own. 

I often think what an education these kind of owners would get if the shoe was on the other foot- then again they probably couldn't care less- consideration and empathy seem lost on them.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2012)

I'm confused as to why people are saying the dog's actions were "friendly"?
There is nothing friendly about running up to a dog and molesting the poor dog sniffing and pushing around with his nose. That's rude, obnoxious behavior in the dog world that many dogs would not tolerate, nor should they have to. 

I wouldn't kick the dog, that's not a way I tend to react for one, and besides, knowing most labs I'd hurt my foot while the dog remains wholy unfazed 

But I most definitely would figure out a way to remove the dogs nose from my dog's nether regions - quickly. Because I assure you, I'd be a lot nicer about it than my dogs would be!


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## ebonyblack (Sep 16, 2011)

Nat28 said:


> If i kicked a friendly dog no matter how much in the right i thought i was i would still feel remorseful


Yes yes yes! I'm sorry but if it hapoened to me and no harm came to ebony I would reflect on it and feel remorseful.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

ouesi said:


> *I'm confused as to why people are saying the dog's actions were "friendly"?*
> There is nothing friendly about running up to a dog and molesting the poor dog sniffing and pushing around with his nose. That's rude, obnoxious behavior in the dog world that many dogs would not tolerate, nor should they have to.
> 
> I wouldn't kick the dog, that's not a way I tend to react for one, and besides, knowing most labs I'd hurt my foot while the dog remains wholy unfazed
> ...


The OP states the dog was *"very friendly"* in the original post.

I suspect that is why some of us have voiced objections to the kicking of this particular dog, because of that description of it being "very friendly".


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> The OP states the dog was *"very friendly"* in the original post.
> 
> I suspect that is why some of us have voiced objections to the kicking of this particular dog, because of that description of it being "very friendly".


If a very friendly dog did that to an elderly or a dog recovering from surgery it could cause dire consequences


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> The OP states the dog was *"very friendly"* in the original post.
> 
> I suspect that is why some of us have voiced objections to the kicking of this particular dog, because of that description of it being "very friendly".


A very friendly dog that appears to have no manners


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Out of interest, how do you teach a dog 'manners'?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

rona said:


> If a very friendly dog did that to an elderly or a dog recovering from surgery it could cause dire consequences


But thats not the case here. Thats not the reason the op kicked the dog away.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> But thats not the case here. Thats not the reason the op kicked the dog away.


How do you know how stressed her dog was?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

rona said:


> How do you know how stressed her dog was?


See thats it...Mavis would cower and shake...where as Chester would have lunged, growled , air snapped... but both are stressed ...

At the end day , resposible dog owners should not allow their dog to run up to any other dog without the agreement of the owner ... End of !!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

rona said:


> How do you know how stressed her dog was?


I said it wasnt because the dog was elderly nor recovering from surgery.

The dog maybe was stressed but that doesnt mean you can kick the other dog multiple times.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

To be honest Ive been driven to this point lately as we seem to have a target on us with dogs charging at us.

Ive had so many instances of dogs running at us, charging, and over friendly behavour that if they kept it up I might give them a knee in the side or a boot.

I have a high tolerance to people being idiots but lately people are running it thin.

We have just been on a walk

1 owner of a poodle leashed their dog and I kept Sophie leashed we pasted each other with a quick hello

2. owner of a rottie both our dogs were offlead so we both asked at the time if they were friendly and we allowed them to greet offlead. Both dogs were calm and it was fine.

3. dog of a large cross came bounding around the bend before I had a chance to get Sophie back and continued to prance about. We quickly made a quick pass of them to the beach. To then have them join us minutes later with the dog bounding thru the bushes startle Sophie. Was not impressed with how her dog just seem to run off into the bushes and up to the road and back :yikes: the lady didnt seem concerned at all!

Then my dad taking Sophie for a walk to have three over friendly Dobes coming running up to them. Sophie wrapped her self around my dads legs and I can only imagine how upset she would have been 

People need to start being considerate to other peoples dogs!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I said it wasnt because the dog was elderly nor recovering from surgery.
> 
> The dog maybe was stressed but that doesnt mean you can kick the other dog multiple times.


Depends entirely on the circumstances


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> I said it wasnt because the dog was elderly nor recovering from surgery.
> 
> The dog maybe was stressed but that doesnt mean you can kick the other dog multiple times.


If Mavis was stressed and cowering the yes...once , if the dog did not take notice then again


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2012)

> ouesi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm confused as to why people are saying *the dog's actions were "friendly"*?
> ...


Thats not what Im referring to though. I dont really care how you would characterize the dog himself. The actions described in the OP, the way the dog behaved, was not friendly and would not be viewed as friendly by the vast majority of dogs.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

I'd kick an overly friendly/rude dog if i had to. My dogs aren't as good as Leannes and would have to be on a lead but if that was me in that situation with Lexi and Bosley, Lexi is currently fighting an ear infection caused by allergies, half of her face is covered in scabs and sores and surprisingly she does not want to be jumped on or have a dog in her face, so her reaction would be to try and run away and if she can't run away, she will tell the dog off, so as I do not like her practising this behaviour, or getting her to the point of stress where she feels that she has to take this course of action then yes I would kick the dog away.

Bos is dog reactive, this dog would literally driver bosley over the edge and I would end up with a dog border line uncontrolable who would refer onto me his lead anything, so again while trying to keep him calm i would use any method to keep this dog away.

What seems like a 'friendly' dog can do irrevisable physcological damage, I have worked with Bos for 18 months to control his excitment, his referred aggression, his focus around other dogs.....I would be FUMING if some inconsiderate idiot let his out of control (which it was) dog ruin all that and I would do what ever was needed to get the dog away.

With regards to teaching my dogs manners, I never allow my dogs to run over to other dogs, as I think that is rude, I never allow them to jump all over other dogs, I keep an eye on play if they are pestering another dog, getting too giddy, or not listening they are removed from the situation, they have to learn there is a level they can play at and a level that is considered too much.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Thats not what Im referring to though. I dont really care how you would characterize the dog himself. The actions described in the OP, the way the dog behaved, was not friendly and would not be viewed as friendly by the vast majority of dogs.



To clarify: the question was asked as to why some folk described the dog as 'friendly'.

I responded by noting that the OP described the dog as 'very friendly'.

I was not talking about the behaviour, but simply noting that the OP characterised the dog as friendly, hence that's why some folk were also saying it was 'friendly'.

At the end of the day, we all do what we feel is right for our dogs. I would have no problem whatsoever in kicking a dog that was being aggressive to my dog. I simply would not kick a dog that was 'very friendly'. That's simply my choice. We won't all agree on this topic, clearly.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

Would this dog's actions still have been understandable if it had been bothering a person or would they be entitled to kick it to get it to go away?

A dog should not be bothering any other park users. Canine or human. I was nearly flattened today by an over enthusiastic labradoodle _as I was taking Gypsy's hock brace off._ If I hadn't been body blocking her then she would have been knocked over - potentially badly hurting her and causing Ely to kick off. As it is I just have a big bruise on my side.

Owner was on the other side of a road and was completely uninterested. It wasn't until I shouted that I had seen what house he had come out of and that he would be getting a bill from my vet and trainer if he didn't come and get his dog.  You can be damn sure that if he hadn't then I would have kicked that dog and I would not have felt guilty at all. Better then Gypsy going lame or Ely scruffing and pinning it.


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## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

The very same thing happened to me today,both mine were on their leads as I had spotted 2 deer on the path.:yikes:

Both mine could smell the deer and were very agitated.

Then this chocolate Lab came running over and wanted to play with mine,luckily mine are very friendly but after the initial greeting mine were more interested in the deer.

The Lab wouldn't leave us alone and the owner had carried on walking and calling his dog,who wasn't taking any notice.

After a while I tried shouting at the dog to go,and at this point the owner came back and collected Angus.

I don't have a problem with dogs coming over usually,but this one was not going away even though mine were not interested,I can imagine it would have been an awkward situation if either or both my dogs were reactive.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

deleted....


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

What a horrible thing to happen leam1307. Sorry you lost your dog like that.
I actually cant believe how many owners here are still oblivious to the problems of 'friendly' dogs. Its so disappointing coz if well educated owners cant get their heads round how friendly to them can be threatening and terrifying to others then their is no hope for the average dog owner.
They are welcome to walk my fearful 6Ib Chihuahua and see if they still think its ok for another dog to run up to her, barge into her and knock her off her feet so it can sniff her bits. Would they still find excuses for the 'friendly' dog whilst their tiny dog was virtually paralysed with fear?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> What a horrible thing to happen leam1307. Sorry you lost your dog like that.
> I actually cant believe how many owners here are still oblivious to the problems of 'friendly' dogs. Its so disappointing coz if well educated owners cant get their heads round how friendly to them can be threatening and terrifying to others then their is no hope for the average dog owner.
> They are welcome to walk my fearful 6Ib Chihuahua and see if they still think its ok for another dog to run up to her, barge into her and knock her off her feet so it can sniff her bits. Would they still find excuses for the 'friendly' dog whilst their tiny dog was virtually paralysed with fear?


I hardly ever say he's friendly about Alfie now. If I see an owner looking anxious I say he's either very good with puppies/nervous dogs, or that he won't even acknowledge their dog, which does apply to small dogs but not big dogs

Used to see this poor woman trying to rehabilitate an enormous deer hound type dog, it was always on lead and muzzled, but people seemed to think it was up to her to deal with their "friendly" dogs 

I tried to pass fairly close to her every day, so that the dog had a good "distance" encounter with a dog that just strolled past. In the end both her and her dog were relaxed and passing within a few feet, but an out of control bouncy Lab could have put that dog back months


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

Have mixed feelings about this, I know all too well how infuriating it can be to have your dog 'mugged' by an OTT dog with an uninterested owner.
But I would worry that maybe a physical intervention could tip an already excited dog into aggression IYKWIM and/or that the dog may react towards myself.

Only a few days ago, whilst Diz was on lead, she was charged by a growling labrador who very nearly knocked me off my feet (and I'm currently a chunky girl so that's some force!!). In all honestly I was too busy trying to keep Diz calm and away from the toothy end of said lab and stay on my feet to even think about kicking out. 
TBH, I probably would have given it a firm shove if I felt I was in danger of losing control of my dog because of it.
This dog was just an over exuberant, bad mannered dog I think but he was still very strong and there was a real danger of him causing injury to either Diz or myself.

JMHO


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Last time it happened to me I resorted to grabbing the dog by the collar and then being spun round like I was attached to a bucking bronco! Thankfully the owner came and got their dog coz I really dont know what I would have done if they hadnt been there...not easy to wrangle a large out of control dog and 3 tiny panicky ones.


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## biggreys (May 12, 2012)

Just to clarify im not one of those that shouts mines friendly, my older to dogs don't like been jumped on by 'friendly' dogs. Lana has arthritis, so yes I would be angry . . . But I wouldn't kick a pestering dog. So I can see both sides.


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## Balto-x (Nov 7, 2010)

See i can see both sides however feel that leanne is justified in what she did,
If it was me i would have had to do the same if the dog would not move.
I have a very da reactive dog if the over friendly dog wouldnt move it would have ended up being attacked and i could not let that happen or a full blown fight between 3 dogs would have started which i could not seperate.
Like people have said there is a difference between a "get away"kick (more like a push/shove) and a "vicious" kick.
I do find myself more and more screaming at owners in the distance as there dog bounds towards that mine are not friendly and then look disguisted at me when they growl at thier of lead dog which they are collecting!!! 

Katie 

Xx


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Muze said:


> Have mixed feelings about this, I know all too well how infuriating it can be to have your dog 'mugged' by an OTT dog with an uninterested owner.
> *But I would worry that maybe a physical intervention could tip an already excited dog into aggression IYKWIM and/or that the dog may react towards myself.*
> 
> Only a few days ago, whilst Diz was on lead, she was charged by a growling labrador who very nearly knocked me off my feet (and I'm currently a chunky girl so that's some force!!). In all honestly I was too busy trying to keep Diz calm and away from the toothy end of said lab and stay on my feet to even think about kicking out.
> ...


That is why I often use my legs to block a dog or shove them away rather than my hands - as I'd rather my legs were bitten than hands if that is going to happen. It also allows me to keep better balance (not leaning over) and control of Kilo. For the record I have been bitten once and it is the only time that I have truly kicked a dog with force as it was attached to Kilo's neck.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

rona said:


> Depends entirely on the circumstances


Well alfie was stressed last night when the border collie surprised him but i didn't kick him away.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

I think a lot of steps have been forgotten in this ... the kick was not the first resort by Leanne, it was clearly a last resort taken by a woman who simply wanted to protect her dogs and *this dog* from any escalation in tension. If Leanne hadn't their is a distinct possibiilty her thread would have been describing the way her dogs took control to get rid of this rude, pushy dog and she would have been criticised if there had been a fight and she hadn't done everything in her power to prevent it.

This wasn't a dog who ran over with an apologetic owner behind, this was a dog who's owner took no responsibilty for the actions of his dog and had little care of the fate of his dog and if any harm comes to his dog it truly is his fault. Poor dog failed by his owner on so many counts.

I've pushed a dog with my foot, I've pushed one with the handle (not the point) of my walking umbrella and I've scared one half to death by opening my umbrella and hiding Tink behind it as it was charging over.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> Well alfie was stressed last night when the border collie surprised him but i didn't kick him away.


Lucky you, not to have been put in that position *yet*

As said in over 40 years of dog ownership I've pushed, grabbed, shouted at and blocked many a dog. Some aggressive some not. I've even held Aflie completely still while very rude dogs do whatever to him  but he's not dog reactive, just old.

But once, just once in those 40 years I could do nothing but kick, not a full on kick but a forceful enough side on push that was strong enough and shocking enough to the dog to be called a kick.

No harm to the dog which stopped what it was doing and scuttled back to it's owner.

As also said, you don't know what happened or the situation in this case

You have to make these judgment calls every day with out of control dogs


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

rona said:


> Lucky you, not to have been put in that position *yet*
> 
> As said in over 40 years of dog ownership I've pushed, grabbed, shouted at and blocked many a dog. Some aggressive some not. I've even held Aflie completely still while very rude dogs do whatever to him  but he's not dog reactive, just old.
> 
> ...


I have been before.

My old dog was being attacked by an offlead dog and wouldnt get off so i did it to save him. The dog wouldnt get off any other way or be called off.

I do not kick a friendly dog away who had done nothing wrong. Plus it was more then one kick to the dog.


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## terrierist (Sep 26, 2012)

I get the 'need' to protect your dog OP, but I just don't get the title.

'Kicked a dog today.........'

Violence against another animal is only really justified if a last desperate measure. Your choice of title almost feels for me, as if you are announcing your achievement to the world


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I have been before.
> 
> My old dog was being attacked by an offlead dog and wouldnt get off so i did it to save him. The dog wouldnt get off any other way or be called off.
> 
> I do not kick a friendly dog away who had done nothing wrong. Plus it was more then one kick to the dog.


Your definition of wrong differs from others as does mine.

How your own dog is being effected has to be part of the decision and that's one thing no one on a computer screen can judge.

I once picked up a friendly GSD by it scruff and threw it as it had my then elderly small bitch Goldie, on her back squealing with fear 
She'd never been nervous but this dog took her by surprise, bowled her over then stood over her while she squirmed. Owner shouting "he's friendly" 

Only ever done that once too


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

.............


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

terrierist said:


> I get the 'need' to protect your dog OP, but I just don't get the title.
> 
> 'Kicked a dog today.........'
> 
> Violence against another animal is only really justified if a last desperate measure. Your choice of title almost feels for me, as if you are announcing your achievement to the world


When I put the very same title, it was in shame and distress at having to resort to such measures 
Being pushed that far by someone elses failings when you are a dog lover, is quite distressing and gave me a few sleepless nights 

I assume the same applies here


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## terrierist (Sep 26, 2012)

rona said:


> When I put the very same title, it was in shame and distress at having to resort to such measures
> Being pushed that far by someone elses failings when you are a dog lover, is quite distressing and gave me a few sleepless nights
> 
> I assume the same applies here


see - I don't get shame and distress vibes from the op.

I just get anger at irresponsible owner and wrath taken out on a dog.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

terrierist said:


> see - I don't get shame and distress vibes from the op.
> 
> I just get anger at irresponsible owner and wrath taken out on a dog.


May be I'm not picking that up because of my own situation and the treatment I received when I did it 

I still stick by the reasoning, that sometimes, anyone can be put in a position to react like that


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I do not kick a friendly dog away* who had done nothing wrong*. Plus it was more then one kick to the dog.


But he was doing something wrong. i'll never get over people describing rude persistant dogs that cause much harm and distress as doing nothing wrong.

If she had bent down and pushed with her hand and the dog had turned and snapped catching her face. we'd all be saying you shouldn't put your face near a strange dog.

There is only one person to blame ,the spineless irresponsible owner that put Leanne in this awful position.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

...........


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I do not kick a friendly dog away who had done nothing wrong. Plus it was more then one kick to the dog.


But the dog HAD done something wrong  What Leanne describes is NOT friendly behaviour imo, it's extremely rude and pushy and is highly likely to get it a bad reaction from other dogs or cause another dog serious problems.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Labman said:


> But by her own admission the dog was friendly and not aggressive, did she try telling it to leave,sit ,stay or even take it be the collar and ,march it back to the idiot owner, i understand she shouldn't have been put in this position but the reality is that it does happen, personally i would have and have handled these situations very differently, i still can not accept that kicking a dog and then starting a thread" i kicked a dog" is in anyway acceptable given the circumstances we are told.


She did take it by the collar which it slipped as she clearly states in the original post!

Friendly or not it was in her space and causing her dogs distress..... because this dog is friendly it can cause others stress and distress adn thats fine.....??!!


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Labman said:


> But by her own admission the dog was friendly and not aggressive, did she try telling it to leave,sit ,stay or even take it be the collar and ,march it back to the idiot owner, i understand she shouldn't have been put in this position but the reality is that it does happen, personally i would have and have handled these situations very differently, i still can not accept that kicking a dog and then starting a thread" i kicked a dog" is in anyway acceptable given the circumstances we are told.


I just skipped pages at a time. But I feel what the OP is getting is ridiculous.

Why should it be up to her to control other people's dogs?



Sarah1983 said:


> But the dog HAD done something wrong  What Leanne describes is NOT friendly behaviour imo, it's extremely rude and pushy and is highly likely to get it a bad reaction from other dogs or cause another dog serious problems.


Quite agree.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

how is this debate even still going on.. those of you with such perfect dogs that are totally unaffected by everything - just give up, you'll never understand, until it happens one time too many (which i sincerely hope it never does) and your dog starts to react negatively in some way to what you consider to be a harmless situation.


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

I have kicked a dog before, it was a last resort and i actually cried and felt so bad about it but at the point i did it had attached itself to my leg and i was bleeding. The owner blamed me for putting my leg in front of Mouse to block him as his dog 'was friendly'. Mouse is becoming ever more nervous of little dogs because of idiots like this and if he reacted he could do serious damage and im not going to put him in that position. 

Even though it upset me doing it i would do it again if i had to because my dogs well being comes first. 

And if im totally honest 'its ok, they are friendly' dogs worry me more than any others because they seem to not back away or leave alone no matter what. And the owners are usually far behind shouting that crap and smiling, not realising the damage their dogs are doing. If the owner if running behind trying to recall and apologises (like most of us here have had to at some point) thats totally different and depending on the dog and person i might even let Mouse play if they meet nicely.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

dobermummy said:


> I have kicked a dog before, it was a last resort and i actually cried and felt so bad about it but at the point i did it had attached itself to my leg and i was bleeding. The owner blamed me for putting my leg in front of Mouse to block him as his dog 'was friendly'. Mouse is becoming ever more nervous of little dogs because of idiots like this and if he reacted he could do serious damage and im not going to put him in that position.
> 
> Even though it upset me doing it i would do it again if i had to because my dogs well being comes first.
> 
> And if im totally honest 'its ok, they are friendly' dogs worry me more than any others because they seem to not back away or leave alone no matter what. And the owners are usually far behind shouting that crap and smiling, not realising the damage their dogs are doing. If the owner if running behind trying to recall and apologises (like most of us here have had to at some point) thats totally different and depending on the dog and person i might even let Mouse play if they meet nicely.


That reminds me, we never sorted a walk out did we.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

...........


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

SLB said:


> That reminds me, we never sorted a walk out did we.


No, we should sort one out soon, now the weather has changed and the fair weather walkers are back in hiding it will be better


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

Labman said:


> No need to shout! Lol.
> 
> I saw that bit , but it seems to me she was too busy shouting and shooing, could the collar that came off so easily not go back on?, seems to me kicking a dog was an option before trying to tell it to leave,sit,stay or even trying to put the collar back on and walking back to the guy.
> Getting excited shooing dogs,waving your hands around only get the dog more playful in my experience, i have had several instances where these incidents are resolved by telling the dogs commands like you would your own, i had an over friendly springer come up getting excited and circling my leashed dogs, i talked calmy to it and said sit,which it did very well , i continued walking and went come on,and it walked alongside us until its very apologetic owner came around the corner, not saying it works all the time but it is an option, we wouldnt wave our hands around shouting at our dogs and expect them to know what we mean so why do we think this will work for other dogs.
> ...


But your dog isnt dog reactive so there isnt an urgency to get rid of the other dog (for its own sake too). But what good is a collar that slips off so easily? Once back on it would just keep coming off every time it was used?!?

Its so easy to say whats right and wrong from just reading whats on here but until you are in the situation you dont really know and to say someone is wrong for protecting their own dog, i find that crazy and sad.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

...........


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Labman said:


> No need to shout! Lol.


Who's shouting?

THIS IS SHOUTING.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

moonviolet said:


> Who's shouting?
> 
> THIS IS SHOUTING.


Haha good point well made


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

Labman said:


> This is the kind of attitude that gets peoples back up, no one is saying they are perfect, my dogs are not perfect and we have had run ins with other dogs, including mine getting roughed up,but that doesnt excuse handling these situations poorly,which i believe the op did.


I dont think it was the op who handled it poorly, it was the other dog owner who decided to try and ignore his dog causing trouble that handled it poorly. The OP did what she needed to to protect her dogs.

What if she hadnt done what she did and the 'friendly' dog pushed hers too far and a fight broke out. Op's 3 dogs onto 1 then whos at fault? She would be getting a flaming for not getting rid of the other dog sooner.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Labman said:


> This is the kind of attitude that gets peoples back up, no one is saying they are perfect, my dogs are not perfect and we have had run ins with other dogs, including mine getting roughed up,but that doesnt excuse handling these situations poorly,which i believe the op did.


quite the opposite, my friend. it's your type of attitude that people have a problem with. and i mean perfect as in 'sound', ie. won't run off, fight etc. thus there is no urgency or reason to panic.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Labman said:


> This is the kind of attitude that gets peoples back up, no one is saying they are perfect, my dogs are not perfect and we have had run ins with other dogs, including mine getting roughed up,but that doesnt excuse handling these situations poorly,which i believe the op did.


I think it comes from being stuck between a rock and a hard place at times when you have a dog that becomes stressed by offlead dogs approaching. Kilo only gets stressed by a small minority, but assuming he got stressed by all.....

If I posted _"An offlead dog approached without an owner in sight that I just could not get rid of, Kilo was cowering between my knees. I tried everything I could to get rid of the dog but resorted to kicking it as my dog was in a state and I wanted to avoid him taking matters into his own hands"_ people would object to the kicking.

If I posted _"An offlead dog approached without an owner in sight that I just could not get rid of, Kilo was cowering between my knees. I tried everything I could to get rid of the dog, none of which worked and Kilo resorted to barking and lunging"_ people would ask why I hadn't protected my dog and let him get that stressed.

If I posted_ "An offlead dog approached without an owner in sight that I just could not get rid of, Kilo was cowering between my knees. I tried everything I could to get rid of the dog, none of which worked and Kilo ended up taking a chunk out of the dog"_ I would be asked why I had an aggressive dog walking with me in a popular area unmuzzled.

And so on and so forth.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Labman said:


> Getting excited shooing dogs,waving your hands around only get the dog more playful in my experience, i have had several instances where these incidents are resolved by telling the dogs commands like you would your own, i had an over friendly springer come up getting excited and circling my leashed dogs, i talked calmy to it and said sit,which it did very well , i continued walking and went come on,and it walked alongside us until its very apologetic owner came around the corner, not saying it works all the time but it is an option, we wouldnt wave our hands around shouting at our dogs and expect them to know what we mean so why do we think this will work for other dogs.


All very well when you're not hanging on to your own dog who is hell bent on killing the dog trying to get into his space. It's very difficult to just walk on when you're having to literally drag 35kg of struggling dog along with you. I know some will say my dog should have been better trained but in those situations he wasn't thinking, panic set in and he just reacted. I spent years trying to work with him and every single time we got somewhere with his behaviour around other dogs we'd have another loose dog run up and we'd have to start all over again. Frustrating doesn't even begin to describe it. Especially as every single one of these encounters happened on the streets, not in off leash areas.

For the record though I never tended to wave my hands and shout. I'd step in front of mine and use the voice of doom to tell the approaching dog to go away. Not a loud voice, not a screech, not even a yell. Just a low, harsh voice. 9 times out of 10 it worked to stop the other dog in its tracks. But then we'd still just be stuck there while the other owner ignored the situation.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Dogless said:


> I think it comes from being stuck between a rock and a hard place at times when you have a dog that becomes stressed by offlead dogs approaching. Kilo only gets stressed by a small minority, but assuming he got stressed by all.....
> 
> If I posted _"An offlead dog approached without an owner in sight that I just could not get rid of, Kilo was cowering between my knees. I tried everything I could to get rid of the dog but resorted to kicking it as my dog was in a state and I wanted to avoid him taking matters into his own hands"_ people would object to the kicking.
> 
> ...


This! It's a lose/lose situation whatever you do!


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

We recently met the biggest lab I have ever seen,I'm sure his father was a bulldozer.
He is young, friendly, full of life and does not know his own strength. Luckily his owner was well aware of his attitude and was doing all he could to keep him calm, as you know Holly is old and not so nimble as she was and was very wary of him. He kept lunging and trying to mouth her. If he had been on his own the only way to get him away would have been rough with him. I would not have let him get near her.
His owner was very appologetic and is starting training school with him.
A responsible owner.
However, if he has been alone I would not have been able to control him, I am not so nimble as I was either, a kick may have been the only solution.

I am with Leanne on this one, it's all very well saying " I would have....". Wait untill you are in that situation and see


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

"....".......


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

I suppose how you react very much depends on your own dog. I would have no compunction about kicking an aggressive dog, but if I was thinking rationally probably wouldn't be a good idea any way 

Friendly or even overly boisterous dogs don't bother Dougie one bit so I would just carry on with our walk - one of his dog buddies is a little bichon she is lovely but goes a bit over the top, when Dougie has had enough play he just puts his paw on her head


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

The truth is the people that think kicking away an overly enthusiatic dog is always wrong have clearly never encountered the type of situation where they would have been forced to take such measures. 
To give an example one time when I was walking mine a large mongrel came along and started humping Adam. I tried shooing it away, asking the owner to retreive it and walking off. However as it was in danger of hurting my lad I was forced to pick him up (which I try to avoid doing). Now I had this dog jumping up at me repeatedly and the owner still avoiding the issue by claiming it was all my fault for bringing an in season bitch to the park!
Now imagine its you who is holding your dog over your head leaving you no free hand to try and leash the dog. The dog is repeatedly jumping at you and as it has very long claws is ripping great big bloody claw marks down your legs no matter which way you turn. Ok, so its not being aggressive but I dont believe that anyone wouldnt try and kick it away to avoid injury.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

...........


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Labman said:


> I would class trying to hump my dog as aggressive,as there is a risk it will hurt my dog, .


but sticking its nose under it and flipping it in the air, slamming its paws down on top of it and barging into it would also present a risk of my 6Ib dog being injured, all of which 'friendly' dogs do when they are greeting and playing. Can I call it aggressive now??


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

...........


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

My two occaisonally hump each other in play but never to the point they'll get aggressive.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

[QUOTE=Wiz201;


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2012)

SLB said:


> Why should it be up to her to control other people's dogs?


This X100

And to add... If youre going to leave it up to others to control your dog, you dont get to have a say in how they decide to do it.

I would not have kicked as Ive already said, but thats a separate issue. 
IME kicking a dog like a lab just gets them more amped up anyway, but I would not have been sweet and gentle about gaining control of the situation or sat there smiling benignly at the whole scene. Sorry. I would have been seriously ticked off and reacted accordingly.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

ouesi said:


> IME kicking a dog like a lab just gets them more amped up anyway, .


thats true...You'd be better off whipping some tasty food out of your pocket and then run the other way screaming, "I've got a sausage!!!".
Would also make the other owner give you a wide berth too!LOL:lol:


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

I think your reaction to this situation made a mountain out of a mole hill and had you walked away you may have saved yourself the stress that it seems to have caused.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> thats true...You'd be better off whipping some tasty food out of your pocket and then run the other way screaming, "I've got a sausage!!!".
> Would also make the other owner give you a wide berth too!LOL:lol:


Honestly, if I have a pocket full of treats, that is exactly what I would have done, thrown a handful of treats at the dog, and made my escape with my dogs while the lab is busy snarfing up the treats. Of course then you risk the "what if the dog can't tolerate that particular food" posts, but again, if you leave it to others to control your dog, you don't get to decide how they go about it.

On occasions where I don't have treats, I've resorted to throwing a handful of gravel at a dog to keep him from approaching mine.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

ouesi said:


> On occasions where I dont have treats, Ive resorted to throwing a handful of gravel at a dog to keep him from approaching mine.


Something tells me a handful of grass wouldn't have the same effect and that's pretty much all I'd have access to on the field lol.

I tried the treat thing once, the dog became even more attached to me after that


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Labman said:


> My attitude of not kicking non aggressive dogs?, or my attitude of accepting these things happen and reacting appropriately not lashing out and panicing or maybe my attitude of doing all i can to be responsible but accepting things happen from time to time?


neither. do you have a lab? tia is terrified of most labs. if your dog charged at her, she'd likely scream/run off but according to your attitude that's fine because 'it happens'. read the thread, you're in the minority.


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## DogWalker1234 (Aug 28, 2012)

My dog seems to be one of those rare labs that doesn't treat every other dog he sees as a party invitation. Ok, he used to, I'll admit it, but I've done this little thing called _training_. Now, he basically ignores other dogs unless they approach him first, and often ignores those ones too. He will have the occasional relapse but I'm always right there behind him, taking him away and apologising.

So if someone else has a full-grown dog that behaves the way the dog in OP's case did I see no problem in giving it the training that they aren't getting. I'd much rather give their dog a light kick or a good poke that might discourage it from being a nuisance than having it end up getting mauled by another dog some other day.

Tuco is himself a huge peacenik and seems to entirely lack the 'back off, get away from me' gene that most dogs have. So he's been harrassed by a fair number of other dogs over the years, though only a couple of times did it get to the point where I felt the need to get physically involved, because like in OP's case the owners weren't making any effort to control them.

Both times I just ran out of patience. One time I pulled a big dog away by his scruff pretty roughly (not trying to actually harm it but enough to make it unpleasant), and the other time it was a little dog that kept at it until I finally gave him a good poke in the ribs with my finger. They both got the message, and I don't think what I did was at all inappropriate. I guess I could have tried nicely leading them back to their owners, but my sense is they lost that consideration when they let their dog go on being an a**hole without doing a thing to stop it. Also, as I said, my punishment was probably better for the dogs in the long run than a punishment another dog might mete out.

Oh, and both owners told me off for 'touching their dogs', and I told them off right back. As if I'm supposed to just watch my dog getting endlessly harrassed and that's supposed to be ok.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

..........


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Labman said:


> It is attitudes like this that put people off this forum, you have not read what i said, made assumptions and got on your high horse about it all.


i haven't said anything no one else has. i wouldn't mind as long as the other owner apologised so what attitude puts people off? also i wouldn't kick a dog either, doesn't mean i can't see why someone would need to. i don't know why somebody who clearly has a confident dog feels like they can judge? now that's a high horse imo!


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

also labman, should just say i think it was on the other thread where you referred to owners who don't want their nervous dogs to be jumped on as 'precious'? i found that incredibly offensive, it is not my fault my dog's nervous, nor am i precious. just responsible and i expect others to do the same. she's never approached another dog without permission, she stayed on a longline until i was confident it would not happen. i think that's better than leaving it to chance and upsetting people, personally.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

just noticed your edit. okay didn't really need to know all that, just basing my responses on things you've said in this thread. anyway i'm tired of this now as you clearly don't get that i'm not being stuck up, i just love and care about my dog and wish the irresponsible owners of 'friendly' dogs didn't make her this way. your dog is not my dog, they respond differently to things and i'm glad that yours isn't ridiculously nervous around any bigger dog. i won't be responding to any more of your comments dw.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

[quote=".......


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Labman said:


> you just can not go mental with everyone as these things sometimes happen.


Nobody is saying that these things don't happen. I think anyone who owns a dog will understand that they're not robots and sometimes they do things they shouldn't do. But there is one hell of a difference between it happening and the owner legging it over to get their dog and it happening and the owner not doing a damn thing about it. I always did my best not to get angry with those who came and got their dog ASAP but sometimes it's very hard not to let your frustration show when you know damn well this one incident means months of work undone.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Sarah1983 thanks for saying what i was trying to, lol! i don't mind a calm off lead dog coming for a sniff. i don't like the assumption that we all 'go mental' either. it upsets me, and i'll walk off and cry but i've only confronted someone about it twice ever and i was actually really polite and tried to explain why it wasn't okay both times yet the owner of the both other dogs 'went mental' at me. i think some people won't understand until it's their dog that's being distressed and it has a lasting impact


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Hmmm sorry but i will get angry at any dog approaching mine. 1) i want the right to be able to walk my dog in peace without 'friendly' dogs trying to 'play' with mine and 2) I am trying my damn hardest to make sure my dog dos not progress from being fearful to fearful aggresive. I will not allow any dog to sniff ect until i have decided that the dog is calm enough for her to meet. I have been working on her issue for a very long time, she will never get over it i know this because stupid people wont controll their own bloody animals. If the same situation happened to me i know for a fact that frey would have snapped, she has snapped before. When she did snap before it took 6 months for her to even sniff and meet another dog. Why should other people have to have all their hard work ruined and especially why should i let some moron and his dog destroy all the trust and confidence i have built up in my dog??


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

912142 said:


> I think your reaction to this situation made a mountain out of a mole hill and had you walked away you may have saved yourself the stress that it seems to have caused.


Thats not always possible

Last month I took Sophie to beach and as we were making our way up the trail and were walking out the gated area straight onto a busy city street (Sophie was onlead before we even made the hike back)

I heard someone shout their dogs name! I turned around and sure enough bounding thru the push is a big black lab cross. Sure I could have legged it thru the parking lot to my dads car and get Sophie inside

BUT

the nice person in me didnt want the dog to fallow us into the busy parking lot!

I tried to body block this dog and keep it back from Sophie as it was way to over friendly jumping around us. This was distressing for Sophie who was crying, barking and trying to get away. The dog was faster then me and managed to get to Sophie shoving its nose under bump and flipping it in the air.

Sophie took matters into her own paws and turned into a snarling, drooling, teeth chattering beast and I was so scared shed bitten the dogs face 

Even still the dog was still circling us when the owner showed up saying his dog was fine and friendly yeh but can you not see how distressed my dog is at this!!!

the same happened the other day when we were on a street walk back from a local school park. Walked by the house and a lady opened the and her little cross ran out and started play bowing, barking and running from us and then back while the owner made pitiful attempts to call it back. Sophie tail was down and she was letting out a high pitch cry.

Sure I could have walked away but I was worried this little dog would fallow us into the street we had to cross not far away.

The lady had to physical retrieve her dog and didnt even say a word to us just complained her dog had gotten dirty 

As much as I love dogs and I do trust me! I was on the floor with my bosses boxer the other day giving him belly rubs!

But after facing so many incidents like this my number one priority is Sophie and her well being not someone elses dog anymore.

and honestly if push came to shove and nothing I was doing worked to shoo a dog away and no owner came to retrieve their dog Id give a boot or knee in the side and I wouldnt feel bad about it because Im tired of giving a rats as about other peoples dogs.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Thats not always possible
> 
> Last month I took Sophie to beach and as we were making our way up the trail and were walking out the gated area straight onto a busy city street (Sophie was onlead before we even made the hike back)
> 
> ...


My comment was directed to the situation described and should have avoided any further issue.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Hmmm, alot to read through there.

I dont know if it will make a difference to the people who say I over reacted and that my dog wasnt in any danger blah blah blah, I doubt it. But, my dog suffers with semi collapses that we are currently investigating. These collapses only seem to happen when he gets highly roused. There was one incident a year ago, again involving a Labrador, whereby we had just gotten on the park. The Lab came charging over, friendly but OTT, my dog got wound up by this and did his usual barking and lunging (he was on lead still). Five minutes down the line and he had the worst episode he'd ever had. Furthermore these episodes are also the sole cause of my panic attacks when out walking the dogs, simply because I dont know if my dog is going to have a heart attack and die.

So, excuse me if I try and avoid situations that cause his anxiety levels to rise to the point where his body cant seem to cope, and excuse me if I take my own dogs safety into account before anything else. Other peoples dogs are NOT my concern and I will not go to the effort of controlling their dogs for them.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

912142 said:


> My comment was directed to the situation described and should have avoided any further issue.


But what if the dog had fallowed her out and from the sounds of it, it might have. Wed then be upset that she hadnt tried to take it to the owner or that she didnt stay there even tho it was harrasing her dogs.

Im just saying walking away does not always work.

I tried walking away from the little dog and it kept fallowing which is way I stopped even tho Sophie was clearly upset by the dogs actions cause I didnt want the dog to be hit if it fallowed us to the road.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Actually, walking away would have taken me back to the car park after about 20 yards. Fence to the right, hedge to the left and car park behind.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Leanne77 said:


> Actually, walking away would have taken me back to the car park after about 20 yards. Fence to the right, hedge to the left and car park behind.


Would that have been a good thing? for you to do? Sorry bit dim

The parking lot we parked in was busy as well as the city street so I could picture the dog getting hit.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Would that have been a good thing? for you to do? Sorry bit dim
> 
> The parking lot we parked in was busy as well as the city street so I could picture the dog getting hit.


It's a large car park to a school and leisure centre with a dual carriageway running alongside so probably not!


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Leanne77 said:


> It's a large car park to a school and leisure centre with a dual carriageway running alongside so probably not!


It really seems your damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Just read your post about your boy collapsing to me its understand why you had to take those measures.

Ive wanted to take a dog first aid course, just gotta find the time :laugh:


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

Well I never thought I would experience this first hand,but I did today. I met my friend at the park she has a 2 year old rough collie, who has just regained confidence to go off lead. He was attacked a year or so ago by a chocolate lab. I know Blue can be a pain as he does like to go over and sniff, its a dog thing after all,well who should we run into but the guy with the lab on lead. Okay it was a 50/50 thing between the two but he gave my friends dog a real kick in the ribs.I was shocked,my friend in tears,the guy was so rude calling her a stupid f******* tart. Anyway we moved on putting Blue on his leash, 1/2 later the guy tries to apologise to my friend for kicking her dog, said he immediately felt bad about it. In the meantime my friend had gone to sit in her car as she was so upset. I told the guy it wasnt my argument but said he shouldnt of kicked Blue and how would he feel if someone kicked his lab. I and my friend are totally fed up with our local park,we get all the morons down there. Today as yesterday there was a pup about 5 months old romping all over peoples dogs and the blasted woman on her mobile. Bramble went for it he doesnt like being leapt upon especially when he's on the lead. Yesterday it was a border collie pup same thing and when I remonstrated with the woman,she called after me its called socialising.Its not I said its called your dog having bad manners, and that why Bramble warned it off. Some B****y people shouldn't have dogs if there not going to interact with them when out.:mad2:


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

The owner was irresponsible in not cleaning up after the dog!
The owner was irresponsible for not controlling is dog!

BUT! that is no reason to kick the poor dog that had NOT been taught any manners!

Rather then kicking a dog ,that has been taught no better- would you not have been better trying to educate the owner, at least on cleaning up his mess if nothing else

If you'd kicked mine you would have been kicked back!
So seeing as we both live in nottinghamshire you'd better think twice before kicking one of mine should we ever be unfortunate enough to meet!


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

DT said:


> The owner was irresponsible in not cleaning up after the dog!
> The owner was irresponsible for not controlling is dog!
> 
> BUT! that is no reason to kick the poor dog that had NOT been taught any manners!
> ...


In that case, you'd better think twice about letting your dog come running over uninvited if we are ever 'unfortunate' enough to meet. I dont take kindly to threats


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## JustmeGemmy (Jun 30, 2011)

I've not read the rest of the thread, tbh, the main post really struck a chord with me! Yes, the guy was irresponsible, but to be fair, perhaps he thought you'd start laying into him! 

Who the hell kicks a friendly dog!? And no wonder why your dog is reactive, if you're going to react that way to a friendly encounter! What a way to upset your dogs. Goodness.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

JustmeGemmy said:


> I've not read the rest of the thread, tbh, the main post really struck a chord with me! Yes, the guy was irresponsible, but to be fair, perhaps he thought you'd start laying into him!
> 
> Who the hell kicks a friendly dog!? And no wonder why your dog is reactive, if you're going to react that way to a friendly encounter! What a way to upset your dogs. Goodness.


The fact you have not read the rest of the thread shows. I've explained everything I needed to explain and my reasons for taking the course of action I did. Yes, a friendly encounter on the Labs part, not on my dogs part. And my dogs reactivity did not stem from me, but from over friendly dogs sticking their noses in every orifice, humping him, refusing to go away and jumping all over him. Oooh, pretty much like the Labrador which started this thread. It has become evident on this thread, and others, just how many people cannot understand why an over friendly dog can be just as much of an issue as an unfriendly one. There is little hope in that case.

There is nothing more for me to explain so like Dragons Den, i'm out.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

JustmeGemmy said:


> Who the hell kicks a friendly dog!? And no wonder why your dog is reactive, if you're going to react that way to a friendly encounter! What a way to upset your dogs. Goodness.


I think the whole bone of contention in this thread is that not everybody defines a friendly dog in the same way TBH. For example I can remember a larger dog coming up to mine and trying to sniff my youngest dogs bottom. Now she objected and growled and tried to get away however the other dog wouldnt let her. It ended up with him chasing her around almost attach to her back end while she ran, screaming in absolute terror. To the other dog owner (who clearly had his rose coloured glasses on) his dog was being friendly, to me (who was watching my dog experience a terrifying encounter) his dog was being a rude out of control bully.
This type of situation is where you have a problem IME. The other dog owner wont control their dog coz they dont see the problem then they get annoyed with you for protecting your own dog coz .....
THEY DONT SEE THE PROBLEM!!
Perception is a bitch!!!LOL


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## lily74 (Jan 13, 2012)

The trouble here is the owner not the dog.

As an owner of a over friendly, bouncy dog myself I make sure I am vigilant on walks on what dogs Dexter approaches and what dogs he cant.

If an owner puts their dog/s on a lead then Dexter is called back and put on his lead, also if the dog clearly doesn't want to know I make sure he is distracted with his ball so he doesnt approach.

Once when he was younger and still under recall he did approach another dog, he had seen it and shot off when I was picking up his toliet! Purely my fault as I had underestimated his recall, he had been 100% other times but this dog obviously set him back.

I raced over got him and was apologetic but they also gave Dexter a kick, I think the owners were more aggressive than the dog!.

Dogs approaching other dogs does happen occasionally by accident, but in this case this man sounds too complacent to me and doesnt have alot of regard for other dog walkers

At first reading your thread I thought it was over reacting kicking the dog but further reading about the healthissues I can understand you needed to do more to prevent a disaster.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Doesn't matter how friendly another persons dog is when its in your dogs face if they suffer with some sort of anxiety.. Either fear dog aggression or something like that..

Walks would be a lot pleasanter for people if people did keep their dogs under control and not let them run up to every tom dick and harry..

Ive got to the point with Bob.. 
He suffers with fear aggression with dogs who get in his face.. And after checking with the other people who have his Brother ad sisters in all 4 suffer the same..

I let Bob off.. he has great recall, if I spot another he is all to happy to get back on the lead.. But there are some right plonkers out there that think cause their dogs friendly that it has every right to get in your dogs face.. 
*Tell me that when Ive shouted he has fear aggression and you still let your dog get in his face whilst he is on a lead and he has gripped your dogs neck!!!*
Swift kick would be better than the vets bill Bob is going to give it! Cause you couldn't be bothered to keep your dog under contro;..

And nothing against Lab owners.. But round here.. They are the biggest culprits..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I can't understand why people cant respoect other walkers space.. and dogs.. I can't get my head round it.. 

I walk 2 weims and one Bob.. If I see dogs on leads.. I put every one on.. If others dont bother I put Bob on and shout he is fear aggressive.. and I call the weims to my side.. its respect for others.. costs nothing!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

DT said:


> The owner was irresponsible in not cleaning up after the dog!
> The owner was irresponsible for not controlling is dog!
> 
> BUT! that is no reason to kick the poor dog that had NOT been taught any manners!
> ...


DT if you have a dog kicking of.. I think its actually kinder to give a quick kick out than your dog grip it round the neck..


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

I always have my son when walking my dog. So i have a toddler in a pram and a 110lb friendly dog onlead at all times.
A friendly dog that isnt corrected gets Shorty hyped up, they both bounce around the pram with the potential of knocking it over. Ive had "friendly" dogs attempt to jump in my pram to get to my son. If it takes a kick to make sure it doesnt reach my son your damn right I will. I dont have a clue about the dog, i will not have my pram knocked over or become entangled for the sake of a friendly dog.

If Shorty was offlead she woule BE the pain in the arse dog running over to you bouncing everywhere, one of the many reasons she is always onlead. If you cant control it, LEASH IT!


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

At the end of the day - NONE of you were there. 

You're all speculating on what has happened, some of you are acting as if you know the dog itself , you have been told that it wasn't the first resort and that one of the OP's dogs is reactive. 

DT I think it is very disgusting that you would threaten someone on a public forum. Especially since threats can be reported to the police and police can then track your IP address. What a silly and vile thing to do! What a horrid person you have proven yourself to be.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> *I can't help feeling that as the dog was friendly maybe there was no need to kick it....?*
> 
> Sorry, that's just my initial feeling.
> 
> ...


my thought too.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> my thought too.


If you have your dog under control and someone lets their dog and *You do not know it.. I repeat you do not know it..* whether its friendly or aggressive.. and you know your dog will react..

You as an owner will act.. in the quickest way you can.. Thought does not come into this.. you just act.. you could just kick out lob something.. Its a reaction.. If you have an unpredictable dog, in your control. You dont want to be dragging it off a dog that the owner had no control of.. *A situation.. that was not necessary if the other dog had been under control in the first place!*

If this person had let there dog sh1t on your kids park you would be calling the owner all sorts..


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

I've never felt I _had_ to kick a dog before but I've come close to it when one was hanging off Scooter's neck. Fortunately the owner appeared and removed his animal.

When I've walked reactive dogs I feel my heart sink when they're approached by an offlead dog with no manners. No matter how friendly the other dog is, knowing your dog is likely to kick off if the interaction continues is a horrible feeling! It spoils a walk and can set back a lot of hard work, especially if a dog is reactive from fear.

If leanne had come on here saying that Flynn had attacked this friendly dog I don't think there'd be a positive response; damned if you do, damned if you don't. Still think it should only be absolutely last resort action but what's worse - a bit of a kick which will bruise at worse or a dog fight breaking out?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> If you have your dog under control and someone lets their dog and *You do not know it.. I repeat you do not know it..* whether its friendly or aggressive.. and you know your dog will react..
> 
> You as an owner will act.. in the quickest way you can.. Thought does not come into this.. you just act.. you could just kick out lob something.. Its a reaction.. If you have an unpredictable dog, in your control. You dont want to be dragging it off a dog that the owner had no control of.. *A situation.. that was not necessary if the other dog had been under control in the first place!*
> 
> *If this person had let there dog sh1t on your kids park you would be calling the owner all sorts..*




Granted.

I could not kick a friendly dog! Even if it was making my dog jump up and down.

The owner of the dog could have been shouted to sort it.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> [/B]
> 
> Granted.
> 
> ...


Owner fifty yards away,.. your dog about to grip the dogs neck 5 seconds away?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Owner fifty yards away,.. your dog about to grip the dogs neck 5 seconds away?


Is op's dog dog aggressive?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> Is op's dog dog aggressive?


OK so here is ops thread.. I high light bits.. may I add.. that later on in the thread OP does mention one of her dogs has some sort of fits with stress..
It shouldn't matter other dog walkers should take responsibility for their own dogs.. 



Leanne77 said:


> *Then, his dog spotted mine and started to run at full speed the distance of about 150-200 yards to get to us.* I had plenty of time to call my dogs, get them in a sit and stand and wait (in hindsight I should have turned round and walked the other way). *As the Lab approached I walked forward shouting at it to go away,* it just glanced at me, ran round me and proceeded to shove it's nose into the nether regions of my dogs. Understandably my dogs got up as they were being accosted very rudely, Jed saw it as his chance to mingle, *Flynn started to kick off*. So, i'm trying to get my own dogs under control as well as do something to get the Lab away. Dont get me wrong, it was very friendly but it was determined, persistent and had *no manners* despite the fact it appeared to be a middle aged dog.* I shouted, shooed, pushed it with my hand, grabbed it's collar (that came off straight away) but it was oblivious to everything I was doing.* By this time my dogs were getting *stressed,* *I was getting very angry and stressed so I resorted to kicking it several times as nothing was working (not hard but with enough force to call my actions a kick and make it felt). The bloody dog still ignored my efforts,* I couldnt believe it.
> 
> Anyway, I glanced towards it's owner and saw him skulking next to some bushes, watching the commotion,* not doing anything about it but trying to give the impression it wasnt his dog*. Finally the dog suddenly remembered it had an owner and gave the bloke away by running straight up to him, where he proceeded to walk off. By this time my blood was boiling so I heeled my dogs and started marching towards him. As his dog started to run over again, I yelled for him to call it which he did and it went straight back. I carried on walking towards him, yelling my grievances and the other dog walker who had stopped to speak to him decided to beat a hasty retreat! The man himself put the lead on his dog and walked off before I could reach him, he obviously didnt want a confrontation.
> 
> ...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> OK so here is ops thread.. I high light bits.. may I add.. that later on in the thread OP does mention one of her dogs has some sort of fits with stress..
> It shouldn't matter other dog walkers should take responsibility for their own dogs..


Ok i dont expect anyone to share my view but i still could not kick a friendly dog im sure id find a more humane solution.

If it was a dog fight id understand i just didnt feel it was needed.Sorry.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> Ok i dont expect anyone to share my view but i still could not kick a friendly dog im sure id find a more humane solution.
> 
> If it was a dog fight id understand i just didnt feel it was needed.Sorry.


we are all entitled to our opinion.. 

Prevention.. is far better than cure.... x


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> we are all entitled to our opinion..
> 
> Prevention.. is far better than cure.... x


Ill agree with that


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Ok i dont expect anyone to share my view but i still could not kick a friendly dog im sure id find a more humane solution.
> 
> If it was a dog fight id understand i just didnt feel it was needed.Sorry.


So if your dog was laying on the floor crying or having a fit, you wouldn't do all you could to stop the cause of the problem?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

rona said:


> So if your dog was laying on the floor crying or having a fit, you wouldn't do all you could to stop the cause of the problem?


Rona.. we all know spur of the moment we all would do whatever to help save or prevent.. ...


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Ok i dont expect anyone to share my view but i still could not kick a friendly dog im sure id find a more humane solution.
> 
> If it was a dog fight id understand i just didnt feel it was needed.Sorry.


But the sort of behaviour described in the OP can very easily trigger a dog fight. Dog being so rudely investigated objects, rude dog retaliates and then you've got an even bigger problem on your hands.

As I've asked before, why is it acceptable to kick a dog who is probably going to cause physical harm because it's aggressive but not one who's probably going to cause physical harm due to lack of manners or who is going to cause psychological trauma? Aggression is not the only way one dog can hurt or even kill another.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

rona said:


> So if your dog was laying on the floor crying or having a fit, you wouldn't do all you could to stop the cause of the problem?


I wouldnt kick a dog if my dog was crying no.

If my dog reacted that badly to stress i dont think i would walk it tbh cause there is always going to be off lead dogs who may do this.

I suppose a good solution is for the op to walk in a on lead only kind of place.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

*


Sarah1983 said:



But the sort of behaviour described in the OP can very easily trigger a dog fight.

Click to expand...

*


Sarah1983 said:


> Dog being so rudely investigated objects, rude dog retaliates and then you've got an even bigger problem on your hands.
> 
> As I've asked before, why is it acceptable to kick a dog who is probably going to cause physical harm because it's aggressive but not one who's probably going to cause physical harm due to lack of manners or who is going to cause psychological trauma? Aggression is not the only way one dog can hurt or even kill another.


I agree with you here.

Its the owner who needs a kick though


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> If my dog reacted that badly to stress i dont think i would walk it tbh cause there is always going to be off lead dogs who may do this.


well, I love this arguement (not). Its right up there with women who wear short skirts and walk home alone after dark deserve to get attacked!:glare:
By all means lets just absolve irresponsible dog owners with rude dogs of all responsibilty and make the victims suffer shall we??


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> well, I love this arguement (not). Its right up there with women who wear short skirts and walk home alone after dark deserve to get attacked!:glare:
> By all means lets just absolve irresponsible dog owners with rude dogs of all responsibilty and make the victims suffer shall we??


Im not saying the dog should not have been on a lead im saying i wouldnt kick this dog.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> I wouldnt kick a dog if my dog was crying no.
> 
> If my dog reacted that badly to stress i dont think i would walk it tbh cause there is always going to be off lead dogs who may do this.
> 
> I suppose a good solution is for the op to walk in a on lead only kind of place.


I don't think that exists any more, not with all those idiots walk off lead dogs along roads 

Why shouldn't my old dog enjoy the walks he always has?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> I wouldnt kick a dog if my dog was crying no.
> 
> If my dog reacted that badly to stress i dont think i would walk it tbh cause there is always going to be off lead dogs who may do this.
> 
> I suppose a good solution is for the op to walk in a on lead only kind of place.


Do you know of any of these places?
My Bob is fear dog aggressive only because of silly people shouting.. Its friendly and scaring Bob half to death.. This being backed up by what happened to him before I got him.. when he was 5 weeks old.. Far too many dog walkers out there think.. That if there dog is friendly this means its ok to go up to your dog regardless of on lead.. regardless of what you are shouting and get in its face..

This thread could have been so different.. Ops dog could have gripped the dog round the neck shaken it and killed the other dog owners dog.. One bite.. in a fatal place..

then would we have been saying.. I would have done anything to prevent this happening.. even booted the other persons dog just to save its life?????


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> I agree with you here.
> 
> Its the owner who needs a kick though


It is, but unfortunately the owner is usually miles away and has no intention of coming getting their dog so it's left to you to get rid of their dog in any way you can.

And good luck finding an on leash only place. I street walked my previous dog for the best part of 8 years due to him being seriously aggressive towards other dogs. We encountered out of control dogs on an almost daily basis


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

rona said:


> Why shouldn't my old dog enjoy the walks he always has?


This was my argument with Shadow. Okay so he was wobbly on his back legs but he was still the well behaved, polite dog he'd been for years. Why should he have had to miss out on walks he enjoyed because of people who refused to control their rude dogs?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

rona said:


> I don't think that exists any more, not with all those idiots walk off lead dogs along roads
> 
> Why shouldn't my old dog enjoy the walks he always has?


My Bob is well trained he loves being off lead.. N Im not joking.. I walk down the Valley.. I can put him on and off the lead as I please.. hes happy to go on the lead to get out the way of other dogs.. No need to keep him on a lead..


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I guess i have nothing else to add only 'ANOTHER STUPID OWNER' surly we can agree on this.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Do you know of any of these places?
> My Bob is fear dog aggressive only because of silly people shouting.. Its friendly and scaring Bob half to death.. This being backed up by what happened to him before I got him.. when he was 5 weeks old.. Far too many dog walkers out there think.. That if there dog is friendly this means its ok to go up to your dog regardless of on lead.. regardless of what you are shouting and get in its face..
> 
> This thread could have been so different.. Ops dog could have gripped the dog round the neck shaken it and killed the other dog owners dog.. One bite.. in a fatal place..
> ...


I think if there is the potential for that to happen then the dog should be muzzled


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Sarah1983 said:


> This was my argument with Shadow. Okay so he was wobbly on his back legs but he was still the well behaved, polite dog he'd been for years. Why should he have had to miss out on walks he enjoyed because of people who refused to control their rude dogs?


see.. illness as well as aggression and what about the owner that is wary of other dogs due to a bad experience..

I tell you respect goes a long way.. and it takes one plonker to spoil a lifetime of socialising and training.. One plonker who shouts.. *He's friendly as im shoutng he's fear dog aggressive and if your dog gets near he will grip your dog by the neck..* One plonker to take a little bit more of the confidence that you have been working for.. with your dog.. taken that step back when you know your dog suffers with anxiety and you know you have worked so hard to help... 
Gawd damn IGNORANCE!!!!!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> I guess i have nothing else to add only 'ANOTHER STUPID OWNER' surly we can agree on this.


and cause of a stooooooopid owner.. all the dogs suffered..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

rona said:


> I think if there is the potential for that to happen then the dog should be muzzled


Rona.. we would never know.. Accidents.. do happen..


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

rona said:


> I think if there is the potential for that to happen then the dog should be muzzled


Mine was but he still broke another dogs ribs. Luckily the dog recovered but had he caught the dog in the head or the back it could well have been another outcome and the little dog could have lost its life. A group of 5 off leash dogs had rushed up to us on the street and of course I couldn't block them all at once.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> I wouldnt kick a dog if my dog was crying no.
> 
> If my dog reacted that badly to stress i dont think i would walk it tbh cause there is always going to be off lead dogs who may do this.
> 
> I suppose a good solution is for the op to walk in a on lead only kind of place.


In my city dogs must be onlead in all parks and open public spaces unless its in the two offlead dog areas.

All or most of our instances have happened in areas were dogs must be leashed at all times. The dogs arent, they clock us and bolt for us. I do allow Sophie offlead in our forest walk because I trust her to come back and she doesnt pester other dogs and for the most part its a quiet place.

If I knew my dog would do that to another, they would be onlead all the time unless I had a reliable recall.

Sophie loves her hikes and walks, shes calm, doesnt bother people or other dogs. Sophie has never ever provoked a dog to come over to us, I have always leashed Sophie if I notice the dog is over hyped. Im respectful of other peoples space and other dogs. Not very often is returned.

The other night I was at the garden centre and Sophie was asleep at my feet while I browsed. I saw a women with two dogs that appeared to be calm and so I started talking to her when her dogs kicked off and started barking at Sophie so I moved us along. Every where we went we would run into her even tho I tried my best to keep space between us and each time her dogs would bark.

Sophie never barked back, never tried to engage them and I could see at times she was distressed because of them.

Im not saying this lady shouldnt have been there but Im sure it was apparent that after her dogs kicked off that I was trying to keep space from her.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

I have been in this situation so can understand what the OP did.

We came across an alsatian who was overly interested in Sully's bits, the owner said "he's just wanting to play" and then walked off, Sully was getting really distressed by this dog and it just wouldn't stop, it had no collar and my attempts to grab him to pull him away were pointless, the ONLY reason I didn't hit the dog in any way was because I was worried it would make him violent, shouting the owner was out as she had walked away and wasn't even in sight!

We walked away but the dog followed and kept getting in front of us so we couldn't move, so to everyone who said to walk away it's not that easy.

And to everyone who said you would find a more humane way, what humane way?

I really doubt the original poster would of kicked the lab if she saw another way.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

I Have only read the 1st post but can imagine their are some who agree and those who dont.
I can sympathise.
When walking my dog I was confronted by a loose border terrier with serious issues not once but at least 3 times.
He would run across the full length of a football field in order to attack my dog.
Now given that my dog weighed over 70kg and was dog aggressive the BT probs weighed 10kg, I initially did my best to ensure that my dog didnt grab him. This did involve a boot at times! TBH at the last attack I was inclined to let H get his own back as this dog would try to bite his testicals. 
The owners where useless, frequently letting this dog do as it pleased.
My op is yes the owners should be more responsible but then if the dog has a negative experience when running up to mine wouldnt that put them off? It didnt have much of an effect on this dog but perhaps if I kicked it harder or let Harry have him it would have?


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

Why would you shout at an approaching dog in the first place  to me that sounds like you see them as an immediate threat & you panic, I imagine your dogs will react accordingly to their owner shouting & flailing etc... (maybe next time you won't be so lucky when kicking & grabbing at someone else's dog)

To kick a defenceless animal which is showing no aggressive signs towards you or your dogs to me is just wrong & something I would never consider. 
I don't know the exact situation but for me I would of either headed towards the owner or carried on walking 

Maybe the best course of action would of been for you to walk over to the owner taken your immediate anger out on them not the poor dog!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> well, I love this arguement (not). Its right up there with women who wear short skirts and walk home alone after dark deserve to get attacked!:glare:
> By all means lets just absolve irresponsible dog owners with rude dogs of all responsibilty and make the victims suffer shall we??


Actually I agree with this point but in reverse.

It's like saying the dog was asking to be kicked like a girl wearing a short skirt is asking to be attacked.

We have all dealt with over friendly dogs running over. If the op is so worried why not carry a stick out walking and use that to block (not attack) an upcoming dog. The dog would most likely see the stick held out in a threatening way and retreat, no need to inflict pain on the dog.

I know the dog may well have been too friendly but multiple kicks?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> I wouldnt kick a dog if my dog was crying no.
> 
> If my dog reacted that badly to stress i dont think i would walk it tbh cause there is always going to be off lead dogs who may do this.
> 
> I suppose a good solution is for the op to walk in a on lead only kind of place.


I have to agree.

If the dog is that reactive and the OP believes that it's illness a year ago is from stress then why take it to places where stress will follow?

There are always going to be dogs running around, it's what they do, like it or not all dogs are not what we would want in our dogs and people will not always care if they are running up to others.

I had a dog who would get too stressed going for walks in that one day he backed out of his collar he pulled so hard and ran home. He then didn't go for walks for years as he hated them, it would stress him too much. He had the run of a huge garden and grounds of his own to enjoy instead and he lead a stress free life that way.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

When is someone going to give Leaane the benifit of the doubt. SHE was the one there, not us, She was the one with a dog that could be pushed to collapse, not us. It seems to be she did all she could to protect her dog, as I would have done.

It is very easy to sit here and condem, but in the stress of the moment any one would do their best to protect their dog. At least I hope so.

Give the poor girl a rest.


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## JustmeGemmy (Jun 30, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Do you know of any of these places?
> My Bob is fear dog aggressive only because of silly people shouting.. Its friendly and scaring Bob half to death.. This being backed up by what happened to him before I got him.. when he was 5 weeks old.. Far too many dog walkers out there think.. That if there dog is friendly this means its ok to go up to your dog regardless of on lead.. regardless of what you are shouting and get in its face..
> 
> This thread could have been so different.. Ops dog could have gripped the dog round the neck shaken it and killed the other dog owners dog.. One bite.. in a fatal place..
> ...


If OPs dog is so dangerous, then perhaps it ought to be muzzled in public areas?

If her dog is so sick that encountering other dogs off lead is such a concern, then perhaps pick walks better? We've had to change Sox's walks since being diagnosed with arthritis because it's just better for him. Sure, he would love to do his old walk through fields, but when I *know* there are going to be dogs of all ages off lead down there, it's not fair on him. He gets upset that he can't play & I don't want him to become aggressive because he is restrained and they aren't. He still meets dogs on his walks, but they are better controlled as they are always on leads.

And before anyone starts, no, it's not fair to have to change a dog's routine because of other people being irresponsible - but it's also not fair to put the dog in a potentially distressing or dangerous position either.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

JustmeGemmy said:


> *If OPs dog is so dangerous, then perhaps it ought to be muzzled in public areas? *
> 
> *If her dog is so sick that encountering other dogs off lead is such a concern, then perhaps pick walks better?* We've had to change Sox's walks since being diagnosed with arthritis because it's just better for him. Sure, he would love to do his old walk through fields, but when I *know* there are going to be dogs of all ages off lead down there, it's not fair on him. He gets upset that he can't play & I don't want him to become aggressive because he is restrained and they aren't. He still meets dogs on his walks, but they are better controlled as they are always on leads.
> 
> And before anyone starts, no, it's not fair to have to change a dog's routine because of other people being irresponsible - but it's also not fair to put the dog in a potentially distressing or dangerous position either.


WHY? Why, AGAIN should she have to control OTHER PEOPLE'S dogs? I happen to know the OP and the OP's dog. Flynn doesn't like rude dogs. And had Leanne not stepped in, he would've taken things into his own paws, she gets there before he does to stop him practising that behaviour - Is that so wrong?

I happen to know unless pushed for time she will try and get to secluded spots.

Don't think you know the OP when you don't. YOU nor was anyone else, was there, YOU don't know how Flynn is, YOU as I have said everyone else is doing - is speculating.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

No one's answered my question about what is acceptable if a dog goes running up to a person? What if that person is phobic - they aren't going to react particularly rationally or logically and a kick may be a best case scenario for your dog.

I was told this morning of a jogger who is threatening to *stab and kill* dogs that approach him on the field that we walk on. I know the dog that he originally threatened and it is a pest but totally harmless but while this man's reaction is completely OTT (and I wish the woman had reported him to the police as he is carrying a weapon and that is scary), he should be able to run without being approached or possibly chased or nipped by dogs.

*Your dog may very well be at risk if you cannot stop it from approaching a person or another dog.* Whether or not you consider it a proportionate reaction doesn't exactly matter after the fact and you can't predict which person will shrug it off, which will be upset/scared or which will completely overact like the jogger near to me.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Why would you shout at an approaching dog in the first place  to me that sounds like you see them as an immediate threat & you panic, I imagine your dogs will react accordingly to their owner shouting & flailing etc... (maybe next time you won't be so lucky when kicking & grabbing at someone else's dog)


Er...if you have a dog with issues, behavioural or medical, an approaching dog usually IS a threat. I never shouted and flailed but approaching dogs were told in no uncertain terms to go away. And not just for my own dogs safety and peace of mind either.


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## JustmeGemmy (Jun 30, 2011)

SLB said:


> WHY? Why, AGAIN should she have to control OTHER PEOPLE'S dogs? I happen to know the OP and the OP's dog. Flynn doesn't like rude dogs. And had Leanne not stepped in, he would've taken things into his own paws, she gets there before he does to stop him practising that behaviour - Is that so wrong?
> 
> I happen to know unless pushed for time she will try and get to secluded spots.
> 
> Don't think you know the OP when you don't. YOU nor was anyone else, was there, YOU don't know how Flynn is, YOU as I have said everyone else is doing - is speculating.


We are speculating because she posted this on a public forum. If she didn't want people to reply, then she shouldn't have posted. Surely she must have known that some people wouldn't have taken kindly to reading that she'd kicked a dog?

As for why should she control other people's dogs? Well, why should I have to walk Sox on the pavement, as opposed to through the fields? Why should I have to walk him either at 2pm or 4pm to avoid the school run? Why should I have to cross the road when we see an aggressive dog?

Simply put - because it is the best thing for my dog. I can't get pissy at people if I walk Sox through a field that I *know* will have unruly dogs in it. I know the field, I know what people are like.. If I choose to go in there, then that's MY decision. No one elses. Of course it annoys me, I am human after all. But it's the safest thing to do.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

JustmeGemmy said:


> We are speculating because she posted this on a public forum. If she didn't want people to reply, then she shouldn't have posted. Surely she must have known that some people wouldn't have taken kindly to reading that she'd kicked a dog?
> 
> As for why should she control other people's dogs? Well, why should I have to walk Sox on the pavement, as opposed to through the fields? Why should I have to walk him either at 2pm or 4pm to avoid the school run? Why should I have to cross the road when we see an aggressive dog?
> 
> Simply put - because it is the best thing for my dog. I can't get pissy at people if I walk Sox through a field that I *know* will have unruly dogs in it. I know the field, I know what people are like.. If I choose to go in there, then that's MY decision. No one elses. Of course it annoys me, I am human after all. But it's the safest thing to do.


It sounds like you're avoiding the same things the OP wants to. However you're saying she was wrong for protecting her dog. When you're doing the same.. just in a different way. The very fact that your dog is elderly is the difference, Flynn isn't, he needs a good run around. The fact that Flynn can get wound up to the point that he can have a fit, is different.

WHY should either of you put off going to nice places because people can't control their dogs? You're both on the same page, only Leanne did something proactive about it. You just avoid the problems. Leanne works during the day. So how is she meant to go out when she knows other people are not out?

There is only one dog I avoid and that is because the owner is pathetic and stupid. But other than that I don't plan my walks because there might be something I don't like out there. Why should I or Leanne or even yourself have to ruin our walks because people can't control their dogs?

You may never kick a dog yourself, but you are very much on par with all those who dogs with issues..


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## JustmeGemmy (Jun 30, 2011)

SLB said:


> It sounds like you're avoiding the same things the OP wants to. However you're saying she was wrong for protecting her dog. When you're doing the same.. just in a different way. The very fact that your dog is elderly is the difference, Flynn isn't, he needs a good run around. The fact that Flynn can get wound up to the point that he can have a fit, is different.
> 
> WHY should either of you put off going to nice places because people can't control their dogs? You're both on the same page, only Leanne did something proactive about it. You just avoid the problems. Leanne works during the day. So how is she meant to go out when she knows other people are not out?
> 
> ...


Sox is in no way elderly & very much enjoys a run around. Unfortunately, he simply can't do that now. The reason I don't let him off lead is because he runs too fast for his hips to cope with and other dogs jumping on him might hurt him. MY dog isn't aggressive. I have no worries in that respect.

I am hardly *avoiding* the problem, I have simply found a better way to exercise my dog that doesn't put him at risk. If I was "proactive" like the OP and let my dog run around, like he would love to.. Then I would also have to spend the evening watching him in pain. I would have to take him to the emergency Vet for treatment and he'd probably end up being put back onto Metacam. So don't compare me & the OP. We are WORLDS apart. I am doing what is best for my dog & I am taking others into consideration when I do. I don't think it's fair on SOX to take him to a field and let him run around. I do what is best for my dog.


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> Er...if you have a dog with issues, behavioural or medical, an approaching dog usually IS a threat. I never shouted and flailed but approaching dogs were told in no uncertain terms to go away. And not just for my own dogs safety and peace of mind either.


If I had a dog with issues I would look to deal with them accordingly as in the above post.

I wouldn't go around kicking peoples dogs! My dogs potential issues are no more important of that of a dog with poor recall....they obviously both have 'issues/ problems/ poor training' it wouldn't make my dog anymore special. 
What if the next time I see a person with a dog aggressive pooch on a lead, having a go as I walk past...should I walk upto it & boot it? I don't know the reasons why, I don't know anything about it...but its causing my on lead dogs unnecessary stress?


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

JustmeGemmy said:


> Sox is in no way elderly & very much enjoys a run around. Unfortunately, he simply can't do that now. The reason I don't let him off lead is because he runs too fast for his hips to cope with and other dogs jumping on him might hurt him. MY dog isn't aggressive. I have no worries in that respect.
> 
> I am hardly *avoiding* the problem, I have simply found a better way to exercise my dog that doesn't put him at risk. If I was "proactive" like the OP and let my dog run around, like he would love to.. Then I would also have to spend the evening watching him in pain. I would have to take him to the emergency Vet for treatment and he'd probably end up being put back onto Metacam. So don't compare me & the OP. We are WORLDS apart. I am doing what is best for my dog & I am taking others into consideration when I do. I don't think it's fair on SOX to take him to a field and let him run around. I do what is best for my dog.


And Leanne did exactly what she thought was best for HER dog. She didn't kick the dog straight away, she tried other things first.

I'm out. There's a lot of people here who are reading what they want to read. None of you don't get any of what has been said.. But hey ho. Ignorance is bliss.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> If I had a dog with issues I would look to deal with them accordingly as in the above post.
> 
> I wouldn't go around kicking peoples dogs! My dogs potential issues are no more important of that of a dog with poor recall....they obviously both have 'issues/ problems/ poor training' it wouldn't make my dog anymore special.
> What if the next time I see a person with a dog aggressive pooch on a lead, having a go as I walk past...should I walk upto it & boot it? I don't know the reasons why, I don't know anything about it...but its causing my on lead dogs unnecessary stress?


Walk up to it and boot it? You are taking things completely out of context, how about you re-read the original post and maybe just attempt to fully understand what happened before you condem the OP.

I'm guessing you reached your opinion after simply reading the title of this post and the rest didn't matter.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

I wish leanne the best with future walks and the same to others with reactive dogs.

Theres nothing better then seeing your reactive dog enjoy the outdoors! And meeting well behaved calm dogs, that your dog enjoys being around.


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

I feel like I am late in replying to this. 

I have read the thread. I have to say if someone kicked my dog, they would get a kicking and hopefully would think twice before contemplating such actions in the future.

I can't help but think emotionally you got way too negative eg the poo. I can't say that it helped you in such a frantic situation. Your dogs sound very well behaved and I think if you had possibly pursued the collar action may have been successful second time round. I don't think there is any place for kicking a dog. This dog was bearing no aggression and was clearly over-excited. I think giving the owner a stern talking to was brilliant on your behalf. I know that it is not your responsibility to control other people's dogs, but I am sure yourself if your dog behaved in the same manner that you wouldn't want someone kicking your dog.

Now I get irrate when male dogs try to hump my Bichon and usually when the owner does nothing in the recall process or even acknowledge it, they get a stern warning that if it happens again, I will hump them forcefully! This has certainly seen a massive decline in irresponsible owners around my Bichon. One time I had a dog who wouldn't leave Buddy alone and I ended up tieing the dog to a tree. When the owner made his way round, I told him in no un-certain terms he was a crap owner and that if I saw his dog near mine again, that it would be him I would tie to tree!

It is a big bug bearer of mine when dogs try to exert dominance. Most dogs are brilliant on the recall and that also the owners put their dog back on the lead as I do. I could never bring myself to kick a dog as it isn't their fault if they are not handled or trained properly.

I do hope your not faced with the same situation on future walks.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> I feel like I am late in replying to this.
> 
> I have read the thread. I have to say if someone kicked my dog, *they would get a kicking *and hopefully would think twice before contemplating such actions in the future.
> 
> ...


yer 'cos that solves all the problems.


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

LauraJane9 said:


> Walk up to it and boot it? You are taking things completely out of context, how about you re-read the original post and maybe just attempt to fully understand what happened before you condem the OP.
> 
> I'm guessing you reached your opinion after simply reading the title of this post and the rest didn't matter.


No I read it all...ok I jumped the gun booting it straight away....I shouted at it first....etc....but nothing I did worked so I decided to kick it! My reasons would be the same? My dogs were frightened, getting stressed & the owner did nothing but stand letting their dog bark, growl, try & get at my dogs!

***
Not one thought for the dog she was potentially provoking with her behaviour? More than likely reinforcing the issue. Walking a dog means you must be aware of everyone around you, if its all about HER dog & keeping it safe at all costs I'd maybe try paying to walk round a fenced off area where no dogs can ever approach!

Would of been an interesting thread had the friendly dog bite her back after getting kicked :yikes:


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> No I read it all...ok I jumped the gun booting it straight away....I shouted at it first....etc....but nothing I did worked so I decided to kick it! My reasons would be the same? My dogs were frightened, getting stressed & the owner did nothing but stand letting their dog bark, growl, try & get at my dogs!
> 
> ***
> Not one thought for the dog she was potentially provoking with her behaviour? More than likely reinforcing the issue. Walking a dog means you must be aware of everyone around you, if its all about HER dog & keeping it safe at all costs I'd maybe try paying to walk round a fenced off area where no dogs can ever approach!
> ...


Well you appear to have all the answers so what should she have done?


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

LauraJane9 said:


> Well you appear to have all the answers so what should she have done?


To start with I wouldn't get 'very angry and stressed' resulting in me kicking a friendly dog! However stressed I maybe I would NOT let my temper / heat of the moment / anger / stress, what ever you wish to call it, over rule me when it comes to dealing with animals.

Does make you wonder. Dogs especially pick up on the smallest things!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> If I had a dog with issues I would look to deal with them accordingly as in the above post.
> 
> I wouldn't go around kicking peoples dogs! My dogs potential issues are no more important of that of a dog with poor recall....they obviously both have 'issues/ problems/ poor training' it wouldn't make my dog anymore special.
> What if the next time I see a person with a dog aggressive pooch on a lead, having a go as I walk past...should I walk upto it & boot it? I don't know the reasons why, I don't know anything about it...but its causing my on lead dogs unnecessary stress?


It's all very well saying you'd carry on walking, have you ever actually tried to do that when you've got two large dogs fighting? Or with one dog attached to the other humping it? Or simply with a dog who's frozen in fear and who you'd have to drag along on his stomach to walk in any direction? I stuck to street walking my aggressive dog at stupid times in order to try to avoid these situations. He also wore a muzzle. Yet we were still put in those situations time and time again by people who had no control over their dogs and no desire to gain any.

I've only kicked one dog so far in the 18 years I've been walking mine by the way. That dog had already attempted to kill mine and was hell bent on having another shot at him. I don't go around kicking dogs just because I feel like it or because I get some sort of buzz out of it. But yeah, if I thought my dog was going to be harmed by a rude, out of control dog and nothing else had worked to deter it I'd probably give it a kick. A dog does not need to be aggressive to harm or kill another dog.

Thankfully my Voice of Doom and body language works to deter most dogs but I've even been told off for doing that as I may cause the dog to have issues with people or exacerbate existing issues


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> To start with I wouldn't get 'very angry and stressed' resulting in me kicking a friendly dog! However stressed I maybe I would not let my temper over rule me when it comes to dealing with animals.
> Does make you wonder.


If you want I can meet you and let my very rude.... I mean friendly, dogs come and greet yours then pay no attention to them..


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> To start with I wouldn't get 'very angry and stressed' resulting in me kicking a friendly dog! However stressed I maybe I would NOT let my temper / heat of the moment / anger / stress, what ever you wish to call it, over rule me when it comes to dealing with animals.
> 
> Does make you wonder. Dogs especially pick up on the smallest things!


I don't believe it was stress or anger that caused her to kick the dog, it was a last resort.

Makes you wonder? Dogs pick up on things? What are you implying here?


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> It's all very well saying you'd carry on walking, have you ever actually tried to do that when you've got two large dogs fighting? Or with one dog attached to the other humping it? Or simply with a dog who's frozen in fear and who you'd have to drag along on his stomach to walk in any direction? I stuck to street walking my aggressive dog at stupid times in order to try to avoid these situations. He also wore a muzzle. Yet we were still put in those situations time and time again by people who had no control over their dogs and no desire to gain any.
> 
> I've only kicked one dog so far in the 18 years I've been walking mine by the way. That dog had already attempted to kill mine and was hell bent on having another shot at him. I don't go around kicking dogs just because I feel like it or because I get some sort of buzz out of it. But yeah, if I thought my dog was going to be harmed by a rude, out of control dog and nothing else had worked to deter it I'd probably give it a kick. A dog does not need to be aggressive to harm or kill another dog.
> 
> Thankfully my Voice of Doom and body language works to deter most dogs but I've even been told off for doing that as I may cause the dog to have issues with people or exacerbate existing issues


Your justifying completely different situations....can you justify kicking a friendly if 'rude' dog with bad recall?


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

LauraJane9 said:


> I don't believe it was stress or anger that caused her to kick the dog, it was a last resort.
> 
> Makes you wonder? Dogs pick up on things? What are you implying here?


Dogs are reactive, owners contribute to how they react in situations.


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

SLB said:


> If you want I can meet you and let my very rude.... I mean friendly, dogs come and greet yours then pay no attention to them..


And I would kindly ask you what you have done to correct their behaviour, possibly write you a quick note with some links to free training books....it's far to easy to be confrontational when it's really not necessary rather than helpful.
Pointing the finger personally is the wrong attitude.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Dogs are reactive, owners contribute to how they react in situations.


Oh well in that case shame on Leanne for getting worried and stressed about the welfare of her dogs!

You never did tell me what you would do in that situation? You only said what you wouldn't do.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Your justifying completely different situations....can you justify kicking a friendly if 'rude' dog with bad recall?


I direct you to my post from earlier in the thread - if I had been able I would have kicked that dog. It injured me, could have injured my already injured dog and could have started a fight with my reactive dog. It is not friendly - it is a bully. There are elaborate canine greeting rituals in order to avoid mis-interpretation and fights, a dog that doesn't ad-hear to those and ignores signals to go away because it wants to greet is a bully or so unable to communicate with it's own species that it needs to stay on a lead until it has a better grasp of it.



L/C said:


> Would this dog's actions still have been understandable if it had been bothering a person or would they be entitled to kick it to get it to go away?
> 
> A dog should not be bothering any other park users. Canine or human. I was nearly flattened today by an over enthusiastic labradoodle _as I was taking Gypsy's hock brace off._ If I hadn't been body blocking her then she would have been knocked over - potentially badly hurting her and causing Ely to kick off. As it is I just have a big bruise on my side.
> 
> Owner was on the other side of a road and was completely uninterested. It wasn't until I shouted that I had seen what house he had come out of and that he would be getting a bill from my vet and trainer if he didn't come and get his dog.  You can be damn sure that if he hadn't then I would have kicked that dog and I would not have felt guilty at all. Better then Gypsy going lame or Ely scruffing and pinning it.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Dogs are reactive, owners contribute to how they react in situations.


why on earth would you just assume the OP's dog's problems were as a result of her stress and not that her stress was a result of her dog's problems? bit of a silly assumption isn't it.
anyway not getting involved in this again, got better things to do, just couldn't let that one go though!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

I wonder how many of the people who have said 'no I would never ever kick a dog' , in a similar situation where their own dog was becoming very stressed..actually would 

Be it an aggressive dog or an over excited dog, to some dog's on the receiving end, the stress would be just the same.

If the OP had Posted that an over excited dog came up to her's and would not go away, making her dog collapse because of the stress, and in the end she had to kick the dog to get it away,nothing would have been said..


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Your justifying completely different situations....can you justify kicking a friendly if 'rude' dog with bad recall?


How are they completely different situations? In the OPs situation my dog would either have been frozen in fear or, more likely, he would have kicked off which 9 times out of 10 caused the other dog to retaliate.


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

tiatortilla said:


> why on earth would you just assume the OP's dog's problems were as a result of her stress and not that her stress was a result of her dog's problems? bit of a silly assumption isn't it.
> anyway not getting involved in this again, got better things to do, just couldn't let that one go though!


If I walked my dogs & shouted at an approaching dog they would instantly think something was wrong! without having any other previous incidents, I would of started something!!...let alone if my dogs had previous bad experiences, personally I don't think the actions will of helped anyone!

A stressed dog resulting in a stressed owner is a very vicious circle I would of thought.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> And I would kindly ask you what you have done to correct their behaviour, possibly write you a quick note with some links to free training books....it's far to easy to be confrontational when it's really not necessary rather than helpful.
> Pointing the finger personally is the wrong attitude.


You wouldn't have to because I keep my dogs under control. My dogs, my responsibility. Not someone else's.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> If I walked my dogs & shouted at an approaching dog they would instantly think something was wrong! without having any other previous incidents, I would of started something!!...let alone if my dogs had previous bad experiences, personally I don't think the actions will of helped anyone!
> 
> A stressed dog resulting in a stressed owner is a very vicious circle I would of thought.


lol good thing you understood what i was saying! don't worry, you clearly won't get it.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I was hoping that this thread would have died by now, hence why I stated I wasnt going to post on it any more, but since it's still going I might as well clarify a few points.

Flynn used to be a friendly, very submissive dog but he appears to have a certain smell about him that many other dogs find attractive. So, as he has gotten older and has had to deal with more and more unwanted attention by way of being humped, being followed, being jumped upon etc by these wonderfully friendly dogs, he has resorted to going on the defensive and making it clear from the start he doesnt want interaction. Flynn also doesnt seem to get his message across very well due to lack of confidence so his lunging, barking and chasing tactics only seem to make lots of other dogs think he is playing, hence they come back for more. Now, if a friendly dog comes over, gets the vibe they arent wanted and go away then I dont intervene. However, if they continue to badger my dogs causing more and more upset then I will intervene and send them packing. What do you want me to do? Walk off and let my insecure dog try and deal with it, thus allowing him to practice unwanted behaviour and have it reaffirmed in his mind his way of dealing with it is ok? I will add that he has NEVER bitten another dog. He isnt a trouble causer, just a dog who wants to be left alone so I see no need for a muzzle or to restrict him to a lead.

The way the Labrador approached initially had me very concerned. The way it charged over at full speed and didnt even slow down as it got near made me think it wasnt friendly, after all I hadnt seen it interact with any other dogs on the park so how was I supposed to know what it's temperament was? Hence my first tactic of trying to stop it approaching in the first place. 

The other point I want to pick up on is where I walk my dogs. I drive miles a week to specifically walk in places I know are quiet, I generally dont use parks and if I do, I pick a quiet spot where we are unlikely to be bothered and do some training or play a game. However, I dont have all the time in the world and sometimes I dont have an hour spare to drive to and from quiet spots, so we brave the parks. On this particular day in question, I was in the middle of my working day, had other jobs to do but had decided to take the dogs with me. Since we were parked next to a park, I decided to let them have a toilet break and spend 20 mins messing about, this park was unknown to me, I had never used it previously. Since I was in my works van and not my own vehicle, I did not carry the kitchen sink so I apologise for not having other tools with me which I could have used to deter the dog (unless you count heavy duty torch, harmful liquids, a Stanley knife etc).

I wasnt aware upon posting this that I would need to clarify such minor points, some of them several times over.
And just to be clear, I am not some mad woman who wails and screams at every dog I think is going to approach, although I will ask somebody to call their dog if it is of the type I know Flynn will not appreciate. The incident I described in this thread was quite a rare one, well, for it to pan out like it did was a rarity.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

You can ask a mod to lock it because it's your thread


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Was going to post a thread up about our walk today, but came here first as it is relevent. On our walk today Frey saw 2 of her friends and had a play. After this we walked by the river, having a sniff ect when a dog came bounding up to her, the way it came over didnt imediatly concern me as yes it ran over but the approach was made so frey saw it coming and it stopped a short way away from her, inviting her to play but not pushing. She had a sniff, it had a sniff, she walked away and that was that. But further round we came across a dog we had come across before that i know is too over friendly, gets too excited and mouths alot. I turned around and swiftly walked away, hoping to get off the path and into a field before it got to us. No such luck  at first everything was going okay, i even thought that maybe his owner had been working with him (may have even been doing so) until we turned to walk away and it bit frey on the rear. Now he doesnt bite to hurt or be aggresive (i dont think) but he still bites. His owner had carried on walking up the path, totally oblivious to what his dog was doing. Frey turned and snapped back (as any one would) and caught is nose, causing him to squeal. At this point i decided to put him on my lead and take him back to his owner, he ran around to bite freys bum again (as she had flipped round) as i went to get his collar he went to bite frey and bit me instead (didnt draw blood and no bruising but it bloody hurt) I looked up to see his owner running, me thinking to apologies, nope he came to cuss me out for having a nasty dog. I got called a f**cking stupid bitch that needs to keep her nasty little mutt under control and if he sees her out without a muzzle on again he is going to report me to the police. He ran off rather sharpish when i asked for his details as his dog had bitten me and that i will be reporting him to the police. Further round we met up with a regular we see, frey adores her dogs, very few dogs she does adore. As soon as she saw them her hackles went up, she hid behind me. Everytime one of them came to see her she was bearing her teeth. They fortunatly are very well socialised and knew to back off. 

Now i am most likely faced with another 6 months to a year of frey being terrified of any dog she sees. She was doing so well and now she has gone back to being scared and worriedly looking out for any approaching dog for the entire walk. I am now seriously considreing getting her a muzzle so she cant actually do any damage. My worst fear has now happened and she is fast becoming what is classed as a DA (dog aggressive) dog because of this idiot and his dog.

Who can i blame for that?? What do i do now?? Not walk my dog offlead at all?? Have my dog muzzled at all times?? Or not wak her??


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Here are my thoughts - While I don't agree with kicking a dog (unless it's attacking my dogs) I can understand why it might happen.

Clover is reactive towards other dogs. She is very nervous, and tends to bark at other dogs, especially big ones.

Now I am working on this by not going over her threshold, so we tend to go the opposite way if we see other dogs, get her attention and treat.

However twice in the last two days I've had 2 separate dogs approach Clover, she gets nervous and barks. This is then un-do's the work I am trying to do. 

I am getting very fed up of owners not controlling their dogs, and allowing them to approach my nervous dog... and then setting us back


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

cloversmum said:


> Here are my thoughts - While I don't agree with kicking a dog (unless it's attacking my dogs) I can understand why it might happen.
> 
> Clover is reactive towards other dogs. She is very nervous, and tends to bark at other dogs, especially big ones.
> 
> ...


I liked it because you get the point of why Leanne did what she did. Even friendly dogs can do damage. Why can't people see that?


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## Sezzastar (Oct 2, 2012)

Poor Frey


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I wouldn't kick or hurt a dog unless they were attacking Charlie or myself and I couldn't find/think of another way to stop it.

However I do agree that friendly offlead dogs can cause problems to other dogs and owners. it's not just unfriendly dogs that are a problem.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

As always with dog ownership responsibility should go both ways. 

If everyone was a bit more aware and courteous dogs walks would be better for all


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Sezzastar said:


> Poor Frey


Yep she now either has to wear a muzzle or only have onlead walks. Though being on lead is no insurance to it not happening again as pther people wont keep their dogs on leads. If she snaps and hurts a dog that approaches her whilst on her lead then she is going to get the blame


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

SLB said:


> I liked it because you get the point of why Leanne did what she did. Even friendly dogs can do damage. Why can't people see that?


Because they're _friendly_  Honestly, I've had more problems with friendly dogs than aggressive dogs over the years. I don't really mind them now coz Spen's more than happy to meet them but first I had Shadow and his wobbly back end for about 2 years, then Rupert and his aggression for 8 years so I've seen it from the other side.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I haven't read the whole thread, but made it about half way through...

I don't like the idea of kicking a dog, and I wouldn't do it lightly. The only time I had tried to kick a dog (I missed) was when one was attacking Jake. 

However, situations like this, is why Jake has issues meeting some dogs... oh, and funnily enough the dogs have often been Labs! It certainly isn't as easy a situation to control as some people like to make out. Jake has a fantastic sit and stay, but he will not stay when a dog is trying to jump on him! It then makes it difficult to block another dog, while mine is frantically trying to get away (or he will lunge at some dogs if they don't BOGOF). Then, throw Arrow and/or Paddy into the mix and it has just become 2 or 3 times harder! Especially because none of them will accept a rude dog (Paddy accepts very few dogs!) so all hell will break loose (mainly Paddy).

Simply walking away doesn't work with Jake. If he sees a dog is tearing towards us, he doesn't want to turn his back on them... and I don't blame him! Especially since I did that once and the other dog attacked Jake from behind! So now, he gets very upset if he has to turn his back on a dog who he knows is heading for him. 

Fortunately for Arrow, and unfortunately for Jake, but I learnt all my mistakes on Jake... That has benefited Arrow though because I know what dogs to avoid, and how to handle the situation better. 

I wouldn't want to kick another dog, but I will NOT say I won't ever do that because MY dogs come first, and they ALWAYS will. Will I feel bad? Yes, but it would make me feel FAR worse if my dog suffered physically or mentally because I didn't control the situation well enough.


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

pogo said:


> yer 'cos that solves all the problems.


Just like justifying kicking a dog genius


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Can we get one thing straight this dog, despite many people's misconception, was not friendly with manners and social graces that go along with being friendly, this dog was the canine equivalent doorstep saleman pushing his foot in the door when he was told you weren't interested, like the charity collector that shoves their clipboard in your face as you walk down the street shouting at you and trying to humiliate you into signing up for a monthly donation to a charity you don't believe in and can't afford to donate to, I can give you a whole lot of human examples but some reason these rude intimidating dogs will stalwartly be seen as 'friendly' by some and their behaviour excused.

A dog does not need to bite to cause significant and lasting harm. No it's not ideal to kick a dog but why on earth should anyone be put in a position where they have tried everything else they can think of to get rid of this dog. This dog owner was breaking the law his dog was not under control in a public place and as a result was put at risk BY IT'S OWNER.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

It's not friendly dogs that cause problems.

It's the owners of friendly dogs - when said owners either don't understand or don't care that their dogs are bothering others.

I have a typically friendly Lab and when I first rehomed him he would go racing over to other dogs. I was always right there behind him and apologised profusely but I was still worried so I put him on a long line and ONLY let him off to play when the owners of nearby dogs confirmed they were happy to have a young, excitable Lab bouncing around their dog.

Yes, there will always be times when dogs go zooming over to others. And so long as their owners are decent and right there behind them, to grab them and move them if necessary, there shouldn't be problems.

It's a very said situation that the OP was put in a position that she felt she had no other option than to kick a dog - the dog was not doing anything wrong but his OWNER was a selfish git.


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

I am somewhat mystified how comparing dog behaviour to human behaviour is actually a valid comparison. 

Let's just clear something up. Dogs are not fluent in English! Part of them understanding commands is based on body language of the dog owner/handler and not the words!

I see many sales people in town shoving petitions in my face or offering services. Do I kick them? No. I have worked in the NHS all my life and trust me when I say I have been in many situations with unsavoury people. What we have in common is the power of reasoning. To be able to communicate and share understanding in the most intense situations and even in the not so intense situations.

Dogs are not people. They don't speak English or any other language for that matter. If a child ran up to me with a smile and was polite, I wouldn't emotionally be damaged by it. Other people might, but not me. To simply class non aggressive dog behaviour as something that damages all dogs emotionally is simply a lazy assumption. Most owners know their animals and the behaviours and traits they demonstrate. Some owners may be part of a dog walking group/society and if they go elsewhere through habit alone let their dogs off the lead and yes even if it doesn't demonstrate aggression to other dogs doesn't mean emotionally it makes it morally correct. This is lack of discipline and control from the owner and not the dog. Some dogs show nervous behaviour and are not ones for socialising with other dogs. Now if you have such a dog, to go to a populised area full of dogs which are on and off leads is poor ownership on your behalf. You are wanting dogs owners to adjust themselves and their dogs to your situation. 

Yes in this situation it was not nice for the person to be put in such a situation. However, rational thinking should not go out the window. If owners cannot handle such situations, frankly you shouldn't go to that place.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Don't you just love these people that believe they can handle any situation no matter what?  

Impossible with living creatures, and if you think otherwise you shouldn't have anything to do with animals


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

When a dog charges toward my dog she uses very clear canine language in the hope of calming it, to get it to slow and make it's intentions clear. By ignoring this is is rude it is intimidating. That is why the comparison is valid.

We have encountered so many of these dogs I now step in front of her when it is clear that these dogs are mannerless thugs.

ETA: I walk on 2,000 acres of MOD ranges and do not go to the local parks becaue the owners there appear to have little or no knowledge of dog communication body language or even seem to have any desire to watch their dog.

For the record my dog is only nervous because a dog with an over stimulated dog with poor recall and a high prey drive spooked her by jumping out of a bracken covered bank in front of us and tried to kill her like she was a rabbit. So rather understandably dogs with poor manners charging at her scare her. However dogs with good approach behaviours present no issue at all.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

I often wonder what some of these people polish their halos with. they are so bright that they can't see the distress their dogs are causing to others, 2 and 4 legged.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm going to repost this as it has gotten a bit lost but can someone who thinks Leanne over reacted please answer the question about what is acceptable if a dog bothers a person using the park?



L/C said:


> No one's answered my question about what is acceptable if a dog goes running up to a person? What if that person is phobic - they aren't going to react particularly rationally or logically and a kick may be a best case scenario for your dog.
> 
> I was told this morning of a jogger who is threatening to *stab and kill* dogs that approach him on the field that we walk on. I know the dog that he originally threatened and it is a pest but totally harmless but while this man's reaction is completely OTT (and I wish the woman had reported him to the police as he is carrying a weapon and that is scary), he should be able to run without being approached or possibly chased or nipped by dogs.
> 
> *Your dog may very well be at risk if you cannot stop it from approaching a person or another dog.* Whether or not you consider it a proportionate reaction doesn't exactly matter after the fact and you can't predict which person will shrug it off, which will be upset/scared or which will completely overact like the jogger near to me.


And again dogs that ignore other dogs communication asking them to go away are either bullies or completely incapable of understanding what another member of their species is saying to them. In either case they need to be kept on a lead so that their behaviour is nor impacting on other park users. I have a dog who isn't good at communicating with other dogs so he is kept on a lead - this is my responsibility. He's not aggressive but he would injure other dogs in what he thinks is play so I don't allow him to have that opportunity.

If your dog can't approach other dogs politely, can't read canine body language or can't or won't recall/back off when told then you need to keep it leashed. It isn't fair on other people in the park whether they have a dog with them or not.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> I am somewhat mystified how comparing dog behaviour to human behaviour is actually a valid comparison.
> 
> Let's just clear something up. Dogs are not fluent in English! Part of them understanding commands is based on body language of the dog owner/handler and not the words!
> 
> ...


Saying "The owner shouldn't go to that place" is such a cop out, we all know that these things can happen anywhere, I once had an off lead dog harassing Sully right outside my house!

All this "being reasonable and rational" talk but no ACTUAL examples of how else she could of dealt with the situation...


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

I dont wal in populated areas so to speak and it still happens so next excuse for out of control dogs


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

LauraJane9 said:


> Saying "The owner shouldn't go to that place" is such a cop out, we all know that these things can happen anywhere, I once had an off lead dog harassing Sully right outside my house!
> 
> All this "being reasonable and rational" talk *but no ACTUAL examples of how else she could of dealt with the situation...[/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> LauraJane9 said:
> 
> 
> > Saying "The owner shouldn't go to that place" is such a cop out, we all know that these things can happen anywhere, I once had an off lead dog harassing Sully right outside my house!
> ...


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

LauraJane9 said:


> 2Cats2Dogs said:
> 
> 
> > The collar came off in her hand didn't it?
> ...


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> LauraJane9 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it did. I merely stated why not have tried a second time with the collar and put it back on.
> ...


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

LauraJane9 said:


> 2Cats2Dogs said:
> 
> 
> > Try to put the collar back on a bouncing lab whilst controlling her very scared dogs, I've never met Leanne but I'm assuming she only has two hands.
> ...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

its hard to define a kick
A kick to some is a mere push with the foot and would unlikely cause permenant damage. But would be enough to discourage dog
Yep to others it could be a full on kick that could severely injure.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> Yes it did. I merely stated why not have tried a second time with the collar and put it back on.


Only to have it come straight back off again? When time is of the essence you generally don't have the luxury of being able to faff around adjusting collars and putting them back on. Not to mention it can be quite a challenge to get a collar on a dog who's all over the place.



> I dont walk in populated areas so to speak and it still happens so next excuse for out of control dogs


And I walked in populated areas where dogs were required to be on leash and it still happened there too. It's simply not possible to avoid places where a situation like this might occur. Well, not unless you stop walking the dog completely anyway.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> LauraJane9 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the joy of putting a collar on a bouncing Bichon everyday.
> ...


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> Only to have it come straight back off again? When time is of the essence you generally don't have the luxury of being able to faff around adjusting collars and putting them back on. Not to mention it can be quite a challenge to get a collar on a dog who's all over the place.


Did she state the collar came off a second time? No. I am going by her account of the situation. Her dogs themselves were well behaved which to me and my interpretation is that there may have been a small window to try with the collar again.



Sarah1983 said:


> And I walked in populated areas where dogs were required to be on leash and it still happened there too. It's simply not possible to avoid places where a situation like this might occur. Well, not unless you stop walking the dog completely anyway.


Playing fields where I go to sometimes which is flat and by an RSPCA, there is a dog walker who will not walk his dog until the area is clear. I have spoken to him and asked if he wanted to join us and he declined politely because his dog is anti-social and not good with other dogs. Now if someone like him can demonstrate a massive degree of responsibility, than I am sure others it might not hurt if they have the same concerns.


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

LauraJane9 said:


> 2Cats2Dogs said:
> 
> 
> > "because of the panic WE had"
> ...


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> Playing fields where I go to sometimes which is flat and by an RSPCA, there is a dog walker who will not walk his dog until the area is clear. I have spoken to him and asked if he wanted to join us and he declined politely because his dog is anti-social and not good with other dogs. Now if someone like him can demonstrate a massive degree of responsibility, than I am sure others it might not hurt if they have the same concerns.


HOw on earth can this person guarantee that while there are there someone won't come with a dog or dogs let them offlead and go charging up to them? do they lock the gates? display signs? hire door personnel?


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

moonviolet said:


> HOw on earth can this person guarantee that while there are there someone won't some with a dog or dogs let them offlead and go charging up to them? do they lock the gates? display signs? hire door personnel?


The same way I guess people guarantee that 'over excited' dogs are not friendly.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> The same way I guess people guarantee that 'over excited' dogs are not friendly.


i think you rather missed th emeaning of my question ... when they walk ont he field they wait for it to be clear.... how do they prevent a dog " friendly" or otherwise charging up to theirs?


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

Okay how about answer me this, how do i protect my dog when 'over excited' dogs come along and refuse to either read or understand my dogs body language?? How would you feel if a 'over excited' dog comes along and procedes to stamp on your bichon becuase it couldnt understand that your dog doesnt want to play?? Would you actually be stupid enough to try and grab the dogs collar like i did and get bit??


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I think it is great that some people have so much free time on their hands that they can travel to secluded places, or wait until a specific time, or hang about at a walking place until the place is clear of other dogs... Not all of us have that luxury though.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> Playing fields where I go to sometimes which is flat and by an RSPCA, there is a dog walker who will not walk his dog until the area is clear. I have spoken to him and asked if he wanted to join us and he declined politely because his dog is anti-social and not good with other dogs. Now if someone like him can demonstrate a massive degree of responsibility, than I am sure others it might not hurt if they have the same concerns.


Lucky him for having the type of lifestyle which gives him time to pick and choose.

I do the same with my old dog, just got back from there now. No one met today but some days they come from out of nowhere at exactly the same time of day!!!!


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

lozzibear said:


> I think it is great that some people have so much free time on their hands that they can travel to secluded places, or wait until a specific time, or hang about at a walking place until the place is clear of other dogs... Not all of us have that luxury though.


I used to walk my dogs at midnight and 5 am just to avoid other dogs and people, now though its just not plausable. What i dont understand is why i should make excuses for other peoples dogs and cant just walk my bloody dog in peace 

ETA: sounds like i am angry at you, im not i agree with you


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

tashax said:


> Okay how about answer me this, how do i protect my dog when 'over excited' dogs come along and refuse to either read or understand my dogs body language?? How would you feel if a 'over excited' dog comes along and procedes to stamp on your bichon becuase it couldnt understand that your dog doesnt want to play?? Would you actually be stupid enough to try and grab the dogs collar like i did and get bit??


Like I stated before. In my first response to this post.

Is it that difficult for some of you not to use those things called eyes and read through posts.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> Like I stated before. In my first response to this post.
> 
> Is it that difficult for some of you not to use those things called eyes and read through posts.


Hmmmm nice thats right get snarky with me as it makes me understand your reasoning so much more errmmmm not. God forbid your little dog ever gets hurt because some 'over excited' dog could not understand its body language and then you get bitten when interferring, well done being such a perfect dog owner


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

rona said:


> Lucky him for having the type of lifestyle which gives him time to pick and choose.
> 
> I do the same with my old dog, just got back from there now. No one met today but some days they come from out of nowhere at exactly the same time of day!!!!


Indeed he is fortunate. He has patience I'll give him that.

Anything like that requires a lot of luck if that is what he waits for.

I have lost count places I have been where it has been empty and other days it is full of people and dogs.

I can't say that his formula is effective because I don't walk with him or stay to watch. He keeps going there, so something must be going right.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Just an idea for some!
Excluding elderly or sick dogs of course
But if you dog is
1. Nervous around other dogs
2. dog not recall well
3. dog agressive.

Would it maybe be benificial to do some additional by way of a dog training class to try and work on any issues.


just an idea
There will always be idiots out there, but the more confident we can make our dog around others the better surely


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

DT said:


> Just an idea for some!
> Excluding elderly or sick dogs of course
> But if you dog is
> 1. Nervous around other dogs
> ...


I attended 6 classes a month, 2 social walks a month and walk with friends and their balanced polite dogs since the attack happened over 2 years ago. The improvement has been fantastic *BUT* rude dogs that charge up are still a source of fear and are likely to always be because they do not express appropriate behaviour for their species!!!


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

DT said:


> Just an idea for some!
> Excluding elderly or sick dogs of course
> But if you dog is
> 1. Nervous around other dogs
> ...


3 years of working on my dogs issues, going to training classes, getting trainers and behaviourists to see her. Yep works great, until she meets a strange rude dog and goes 8 steps back.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

2Cats2Dogs said:


> Did she state the collar came off a second time? No. I am going by her account of the situation. Her dogs themselves were well behaved which to me and my interpretation is that there may have been a small window to try with the collar again.


If it came off once then it stands to reason that it would come off again unless she adjusted it.



> Playing fields where I go to sometimes which is flat and by an RSPCA, there is a dog walker who will not walk his dog until the area is clear. I have spoken to him and asked if he wanted to join us and he declined politely because his dog is anti-social and not good with other dogs. Now if someone like him can demonstrate a massive degree of responsibility, than I am sure others it might not hurt if they have the same concerns.


I didn't walk my aggressive dog on playing fields or on parks, I walked him down busy main roads to purposely try to avoid off leash dogs. He was also muzzled. Is that not responsible enough for you??? It still didn't solve the issue of out of control dogs since so many people walk theirs off leash on the streets.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

DT said:


> Just an idea for some!
> Excluding elderly or sick dogs of course
> But if you dog is
> 1. Nervous around other dogs
> ...


That comes across sounding very cheeky. Given my dog is the way he is because of these overly friendly dogs, then I highly doubt any amount of training is going to do anything. He doesn't like RUDE dogs, rather than me train my dog, what about those whose dogs have no manners train theirs?? As far as I am concerned, it isn't my dog who is the issue... my dog is normal.

Disclaimer: I am not saying they should, just turning the point the other way.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

DT said:


> Just an idea for some!
> Excluding elderly or sick dogs of course
> But if you dog is
> 1. Nervous around other dogs
> ...


I spent 8 YEARS and god only knows how much money trying to solve my dogs issues. He saw several trainers, several behaviourists, attended classes and I did everything within my power to try and change his reaction to other dogs.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

DT said:


> Just an idea for some!
> Excluding elderly or sick dogs of course
> But if you dog is
> 1. Nervous around other dogs
> ...


so I should attempt to retrain MY dog at the cost of £85 a term of £150 per hour with a behaviourist because YOU cant be bothered to keep your dog under control?

Where do I sign up?!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

tashax said:


> 3 years of working on my dogs issues, going to training classes, getting trainers and behaviourists to see her. Yep works great, until she meets a strange rude dog and goes 8 steps back.





Sarah1983 said:


> If it came off once then it stands to reason that it would come off again unless she adjusted it.
> 
> I didn't walk my aggressive dog on playing fields or on parks, I walked him down busy main roads to purposely try to avoid off leash dogs. He was also muzzled. Is that not responsible enough for you??? It still didn't solve the issue of out of control dogs since so many people walk theirs off leash on the streets.





Sarah1983 said:


> I spent 8 YEARS and god only knows how much money trying to solve my dogs issues. He saw several trainers, several behaviourists, attended classes and I did everything within my power to try and change his reaction to other dogs.


okies, how is/are your dogs when and if you walk with 'regular' walkers


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Starlite said:


> so I should attempt to retrain MY dog at the cost of £85 a term of £150 per hour with a behaviourist because YOU cant be bothered to keep your dog under control?
> 
> Where do I sign up?!



Erm! I never said that! it was purely a suggestion 
that I thought could be possible for some!
I am not aware of each of your circumstances, I do not know what socialization each persons dogs have had
But take it how you like!
as sick to the back teeth of pussyfooting around!


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

DT said:


> Erm! I never said that! it was purely a suggestion
> that I thought could be possible for some!
> I am not aware of each of your circumstances, I do not know what socialization each persons dogs have had
> But take it how you like!
> *as sick to the back teeth of pussyfooting around*!


You call threatening people pussyfooting?  What a deranged world you live in.

People have told you that your suggestions wouldn't work - and no case is the same.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

DT said:


> Erm! I never said that! it was purely a suggestion
> that I thought could be possible for some!
> I am not aware of each of your circumstances, I do not know what socialization each persons dogs have had
> But take it how you like!
> as sick to the back teeth of pussyfooting around!


People are keeping their dogs onlead for reasons DT, it's not because we dont want to see them having a good run.

Im sick to the backteeth of being told "its ok he/she is friendly" while molesting me and my dog. I didnt invite the dog over, they cant/wont recall theirs, who is at fault and really needs to work on training?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SLB said:


> You call threatening people pussyfooting?  What a deranged world you live in.
> 
> People have told you that your suggestions wouldn't work - and no case is the same.


Erm!

And read my initial response to those persons suggestions!
It were polite
Unlike yours! so get you hear out you arse and grow up!


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

DT said:


> Erm!
> 
> And read my initial response to those persons suggestions!
> It were polite
> Unlike yours! so get you hear out you arse and grow up!


Your first reply to this thread wasn't polite now was it.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Starlite said:


> People are keeping their dogs onlead for reasons DT, it's not because we dont want to see them having a good run.
> 
> Im sick to the backteeth of being told "its ok he/she is friendly" while molesting me and my dog. I didnt invite the dog over, they cant/wont recall theirs, who is at fault and really needs to work on training?


Yes Starlite and I keep my eldest on lead for those very same reasons, 
It also annoys me when peoples dogs run over to me as it is hard to hold onto two.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SLB said:


> Your first reply to this thread wasn't polite now was it.


No! my first polite was not polite! it was initially,! BUT I will confess what I added on was not appropriate! And I am not making excuses for myself but seeing that the OP was in Notts I did add that end piece on and it was very childish of me! It was pointed out by another member, more politey! And I did infact apolgygise to Leanne when I came of this morning and saw her response and had reREAD my post and how bad it sounded!!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

DT said:


> okies, how is/are your dogs when and if you walk with 'regular' walkers


What do you mean by regular walkers? I didn't often walk Rupert with other dogs if that's what you mean and when I did they were dogs he'd been slowly and carefully introduced to at a pace he was comfortable with.


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## tashax (Jun 25, 2011)

DT said:


> okies, how is/are your dogs when and if you walk with 'regular' walkers


Up until yesterday we had 2 dogs we walked with and frey adores them, literatly adores them. She used to hang off every little thing bella did, bella moved frey moved, bella went after the ball, frey went after the ball (frey has never played fetch with me) After yesterdays incident she wont go near them, whether she will fall back into routine when she has 'gotten over it' i dont know. She was also pretty much a part of my dads 'pack' and now she is terrified of them.

Here is a weird one though, when frey is walked with her 2 best buds she turns into the most confident dog i have ever met, will meet and great other dogs straight away, no hesitation. But on her own she is a bag of nerves, whether this is because she feels safe knowing bella and sky are there i dont know. Hopefully when i get my new pup in a couple of years she will be a huge amount better and they can both make each other feel safe. Another point, i thought frey would pick up on bella who is very dog aggresive, it took me and her owner 5 weeks to be able to have her and frey in the same place together, but as soon as we did they were glued to one another. Bella goes crazy when she sees another dog but frey is just all lalala and goes and says hi.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Sophie and I are attending training tomorrow but its not so much for her as it is for me since the incident last month my confidence has dropped in myself not Sophie.

I dont think any amount of training will have Sophie happy with some dog ramming its nose up her ass.

To me she is the type of dog who does enjoy other dogs company just not up close and personal. Im the same I enjoy being around people but pls do not hug me unless I invite you to and god help you if your a touchie feelie person :angry:

We just had a small incident as I took Sophie on a bus ride and we made are way back thru some streets and then thru a park. We were making our way along the fence when to young kids came thru the other walkway entrance with a boxer cross. Sure enough it clocked us and came bounding towards us but stopped. I stopped and put Sophie in a sit (She grumbled) when the dog didnt move, we moved and sure enough it came bounding closer. I was gonna be damned if I was gonna turned around and find another way around the park.


The dog gave us some space but sure enough Sophie wanted to walk backwards to keep an eye on it.

Im sure it was friendly but its initial approach was not. The owners just walked up and said Sorry. I just told them she was not friendly with larger dogs.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Indeed, DT did apologise and that has all been cleared up.

To answer your questions specifically DT, about training classes, social walks etc...

Flynn has attended training classes all of his 5.5 years - obedience, gundog and to a lesser extent, agility, as well as going on courses and being entered into competitions. He can sit right next to a strange dog in a class situation, walk in close proximity etc etc and he doesnt have an issue, unless it 'interferes' with him. He also walks regularly with his doggy pals, and has been on social walks with dogs he doesnt know.

Basically, the long and short of it is he doesnt want to be bothered, he just wants to go about his business and be left alone, except if he is engaging in a game of chase with his pals. If other dogs respect this, he has absolutely no problem with them. 

The problem isnt the fact he hasnt been socialised because he has and actually has very good canine manners, I just think it must be down to his own personal character, and I dont think any amount of training or socialising is going to change how he feels about rude dogs. I had actually spoken to my trainer, who was also a behaviourist who specialised in DA dogs, and she simply said he doesnt have a problem, he just likes to make it clear he wants to be left alone.

Call me naive, but I personally think wanting to be left alone is a simple ask, surely?


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Charlie doesn't even have issues and I really wish other owners would keep their dogs away from us so we can have a nice peaceful walk together. 

Charlie has play dates and plenty of playtime, so when we're out for a walk I just want to walk without being disturbed most of the time. 

I really wish it was a simple ask Leanne77!!


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