# Preloved idiot breeders - a test



## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Out of boredom i did a test today....

I sent the same message to 10 people on preloved selling "Ragdoll kittens" this morning
Each one was asked "Please could you tell me the PKD and HCM status of the parents of these kittens?"

How many do you think have replied so far with the desired reply? ie that they are fully tested and clear.
It is 5pm now... what is your guess at the amount of proper replies I have recieved out of 10?

The title of my thread may give an idea


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

1 if you are lucky


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Sorry you got me looking now,

Do these look like ragdolls to you?

Understanding Ragdoll Kittens for sale in Cleveland :: Kittenads


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Oh my - poor babies


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm going to say.......zero?


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## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

jo-pop said:


> Out of boredom i did a test today....
> 
> I sent the same message to 10 people on preloved selling "Ragdoll kittens" this morning
> Each one was asked "Please could you tell me the PKD and HCM status of the parents of these kittens?"
> ...


You need to get out more


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

PetloverJo said:


> Sorry you got me looking now,
> 
> Do these look like ragdolls to you?
> 
> Understanding Ragdoll Kittens for sale in Cleveland :: Kittenads


wow, if that's a ragdoll, I am a chocolate chip.


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## Faerie Queene (Dec 30, 2008)

jo-pop said:


> Out of boredom i did a test today....
> 
> what is your guess at the amount of proper replies I have recieved out of 10?


A big fat zilcho?


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> I'm going to say.......zero?


You're right, so far a big fat zero!


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Changes said:


> You need to get out more


I was at work and most customers have started their weekend on a Friday (middle east) so I tend to have nothing to do


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

PetloverJo said:


> Sorry you got me looking now,
> 
> Do these look like ragdolls to you?
> 
> Understanding Ragdoll Kittens for sale in Cleveland :: Kittenads


It's a scam which, alas, is just about all that appears on that site 

Liz


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## prada (Nov 3, 2007)

I don't disagree that there are many scams on advertising sites but I have had most of my successful enquiries from Preloved over the years. I think it's still a matter of being vigilant and screening carefully whichever the website. Most scams you can spot a mile off anyway because they are posted by idiots and they are not very clever at hiding the fact.


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## tttomy (Mar 18, 2012)

PetloverJo said:


> Sorry you got me looking now,
> 
> Do these look like ragdolls to you?
> 
> Understanding Ragdoll Kittens for sale in Cleveland :: Kittenads


but it does say that they found these "ragdolls", if thats so theyre probably just trying to earn something from selling them because they look somewhat different from the "typical" domestic cat. i dont know how they came up with ragdolls and what theyre doing is still pretty wrong imo but far better than these people being breeders


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I meant kittenads- that's where all the scams are.

Liz


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## Kenyania (Feb 23, 2012)

Haha, this is funny. What replies have you got?


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## prada (Nov 3, 2007)

lizward said:


> I meant kittenads- that's where all the scams are.
> 
> Liz


Yeah, I realised as soon as I had posted that I was going off on a tangent. Do that all the time LOL I know what you mean and agree.


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Kenyania said:


> Haha, this is funny. What replies have you got?


One reply just said "?"

another was totally unaware and said she had been breeding them for 30 years with no problems. I doubt she has been breeding Ragdolls for 30 years as as far as I am aware only a handful of them were imported to the UK in the 60's and were very much a "work in progress" for some time.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jo-pop said:


> One reply just said "?"
> 
> another was totally unaware and said she had been breeding them for 30 years with no problems. I doubt she has been breeding Ragdolls for 30 years as as far as I am aware only a handful of them were imported to the UK in the 60's and were very much a "work in progress" for some time.


must all be unregistered then as you cant register ragdolls anymore without the hcm test!

I think that more good breeders should advertise on there then people can choose 'byb or good breeder' hopefully put them out of business, but alot of people still choose them, and still get scammed, dunno how you cant not spot them!


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> must all be unregistered then as you cant register ragdolls anymore without the hcm test!
> 
> I think that more good breeders should advertise on there then people can choose 'byb or good breeder' hopefully put them out of business, but alot of people still choose them, and still get scammed, dunno how you cant not spot them!


I think a lot of the problem is that for many people, a purebred is a pedigree and there are no delineations between anything. If a cat or dog has papers, then they are top of the line. I've heard a lot of people talk about dogs as "show dogs" just because they have papers. And if you really don't know any better, then you're very likely to get sucked into something that has the convenience factor of preloved. You aren't going to go search for a "quality" breeder, because you have no clue what that even means.


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## prada (Nov 3, 2007)

For a long time now I've been concerned about how the unsuspecting public can be taken in my these unethical and irresponsible so called breeders. Many people really don't consider all the things that we do and don't know what to look out for. There's only a couple of people that have asked me whether my cats are PKD tested negative (which they are) - they should all ask this question, but they don't know. Probably never heard of it. If I get a phone enquiry and I don't have any kittens available I still chat to the person if I can. Lots of them want advice about looking for a good breeder and choosing the right kitten and I am happy to give this advice. If necessary I tell them what to look out for and what to be wary of and what questions to ask. I feel better for helping out and, in a way, it pays off because some of them ask around and then come back to me to wait for the next litter as they feel that I am genuine. I don't know, I must be a good listener because you wouldn't believe the things that these total strangers tell me about some of the breeders they've been in touch with.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I can't imagine that you will get any replies at all, but if you do they won't be giving the test results, they will be trying to say they know what they are doing.

When looking for a newfie puppy I emailed a classified add and asked the hip scores, elbow scores and heart scan results of the parents. I was told that they had no tests done, as though that were quite normal and what did I want to know that for.

I emailed a free ad selling Landseer pups for almost half the price they should be with the same questions, and got no reply whatsoever.

Most of these so called breeders do not even know they need these tests, that it is of vital importance to the health of the puppies, especially the heart scan as there is no cure of SAS. They just think £ signs. Make me sick.


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## Golgotha_tramp (Feb 27, 2011)

I'm currently looking at adding to the family and looking at a pedigree. I have to say that the GCCF doesn't do any favours helping people *know* what they need to know. I went on their "buying a pedigree" and it gives sound advice for picking out *a* kitten (which would be true, pedigree or not) and then links to a page for a download for "Choosing a Pedigree Kitten" but it isn't there!?

The website seems to go around and around in circles but doesn't tell you a lot. I have been lucky being on here I have been able to find out a lot of what I need to know (visiting the mother, breeding certificate, kitten registration, genetic tests specific breeds should have) but even then a lot of it I worry that I know wrong or don't quite get and will offend the breeder by asking wrongly.

A perfect example is the what registration? I know my kitten wouldn't be active (as it won't be a breeder) but reading Registration explained I'm more confused then when I started?!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I think that any good breeder worth their salt will not be offended by anything that a potential kitten owner asks. In fact, I think there's more of a risk of not being considered a suitable home if you don't ask enough.

I've had very few people ask me aobut registration or PKD testing, but then, that's something that most kitten owners aren't aware that they need to ask, and it's a difficult balance to strike between helping someone know what they need and overloading them with too much information too quickly. I prefer to have a relaxed attitude towards the whole thing, invite folks down to meet the mums of their kittens, then have a nice, informal chat over coffee. That allows me to get to know them better and suss out whether they're suitable or not, and for them to get to know me better, work out whether I'm a good enough breeder for them and ask any questions that pop into their heads. I think that's the thing that most people forget. We're all very quick to say that the kitten owner should be asking all the right questions, but we as good breeders should also be prompting them to ask if they don't know what they're looking for.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

definitely a scam. i sent an email saying that they are lovely as exotics but raggies they are not. i got an answer asking me what ragdoll kitten i would like male or female and asking for my particulars. it also looks like a automated reply. they are down as red turkish van marking. ragdolls my foot!!


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Can i just ask as i am not a cat person but i am interested in leaning about different things.The KC has a find a puppy list and it also highlights the assured breeders,is there anything like this for kitten sales?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Bjt said:


> Can i just ask as i am not a cat person but i am interested in leaning about different things.The KC has a find a puppy list and it also highlights the assured breeders,is there anything like this for kitten sales?


No I'm afraid the GCCF doesn't have anything similar  It does have a list of registered breeders prefixes but there are no guarantees that they are reputable. If you're looking for a pedigree the best places to look are on the breed websites but even these breeders aren't necessarily checked.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> It does have a list of registered breeders prefixes


I know I'm being pedantic but the GCCF has a list of breeders' registered prefixes. Subtle difference I know but there is no such thing as a registered breeder with the GCCF. I'm not sure how the idea ever came about that there is. The paperwork sent out to a breeder when their prefix is granted makes it very clear they should not imply in any way that purchasing a prefix gives them any sort of special status.


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## prada (Nov 3, 2007)

lymorelynn said:


> No I'm afraid the GCCF doesn't have anything similar  It does have a list of registered breeders prefixes but there are no guarantees that they are reputable. If you're looking for a pedigree the best places to look are on the breed websites but even these breeders aren't necessarily checked.


Even though the GCCF doesn't have a list of 'assured breeders' it does have the Suspension List. It's worth looking through that.


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

PetloverJo said:


> Sorry you got me looking now,
> 
> Do these look like ragdolls to you?
> 
> Understanding Ragdoll Kittens for sale in Cleveland :: Kittenads


and they are 3 years old :huh:


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## sammierhall (Mar 7, 2012)

I for one used to look at these sites cause thats all i knew! In the old days (before the net) it was the local paper. i found my lab/retrev in the local paper years back,

Fourms like this educate you I didnt know half of anything! all i knew was what kind of breed i wanted, to ask to see its mum and dad and to see if it has had any injections etc! now i no alot more, i bet alot of people are out their like i was! 

and yes alot of stupid scams to!!! grrrrrrr:cursing:


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Forums like this *do *educate owners. Unfortunately, when it came to my dog I didn't look at one until after I made my mistake. I made damn sure I wouldn't make the same mistake with my cats though...

I think there is a lot of progress to be made to educate kitten buyers without relying on the hope that they by chance call an ethical breeder willing to listen and give advice if they don't have kittens. I'm impressed with the progress made in the past few months for puppies (I love the new site for KC and I think the features on the Crufts program since Channel 4 took over are great). Whilst cats have GCCF, they don't have a programme like Crufts to utilise aside from the occasional feature on shows like The One Show or Blue Peter....

TBH, I only 'knew' what to do with the finding a kitten from an ethical breeder after knowing how it works with dogs and finding a puppy. Contact/find breed clubs!!!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Even though the GCCF doesn't have a list of 'assured breeders' it does have the Suspension List. It's worth looking through that.


It certainly is and if you do you'll notice that a fair proportion of those suspended do not have a prefix. GCCF rules apply to anyone breeding from a GCCF registered cat.


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