# New kitten = very unhappy cat



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

Hello,

I'm new here and really need some advice. I have a 14 year old cat, Archie, who has been an only cat for the last seven years. My sister-in-laws cat became pregnant and I stupidly thought that it would be okay to have one of the kittens.

I brought the kitten, Merlin, home three weeks ago. He is now 15 weeks old. 

I read a lot of advice online about how to introduce them, which I followed as much as I could. I kept the kitten in his own room for about 10 days, then fed them either side of the door, then let them see each other. I did the scent swapping too, and have feliway plug ins throughout the house. 

Archie is not happy at all, and hasn't been since the day we brought Merlin home. He used to be such a loving cat, who would purr as soon as you looked at him. He'd spend all evening kneading and purring and cuddled up on my lap. Now he just wants to be in the garden. He only wants to come in for food and then he cries at the back door to go straight back out.

Merlin has no fear of Archie at all, and tries to play with him, which results in Archie hissing, growling and hitting him. Archie has never hurt him.

Has anyone been through this and did things improve? It's heartbreaking to see Archie so unhappy. I'm considering giving the kitten back, which is an option as my sister in law is aware of the problem I am having and has said she will take Merlin back if things don't improve. I have become very attached to Merlin though, so it would be a very difficult thing for me to do.

Should I give it a bit longer, or put Archie's needs first? I would appreciate any advice x


----------



## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Hi and welcome to our forums. I think there is still hope for Archie and Merlin to get along. I'm glad you have done some research and tried to introduce them slowly.

In my humble opinion 10 days just wasn't enough. I spent 5 weeks introducing my cats. During this time they only had short supervised interactions. And lots and lots of scent swapping. What tricks exactly did you use? Perhaps I can share some more


----------



## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

I'm posting, not to distress you further, but simply to be truthful about my experience.... I had almost exactly the same situation as you some years ago (same genders, same age gap, same personality re older cat) and it was a disaster. Eventually, when our older cat began attacking us as well as the kitten we returned the kitten to the breeder. Sorry .


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

The problem is likely because the little one is trying to play with your old lad. Have you ever considered getting a second kitten as company for the first? I find this works well as the two youngsters tire each other out and give the older cat the space they need.


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies



Ragdollsfriend said:


> In my humble opinion 10 days just wasn't enough. I spent 5 weeks introducing my cats. During this time they only had short supervised interactions. And lots and lots of scent swapping. What tricks exactly did you use? Perhaps I can share some more


Merlin was going crazy being shut in a bedroom on his own, which made me feel terrible. I did spend as much time with him as possible. Archie didn't seem particularly bothered by Merlin's scent, which was why I thought it'd be okay to let them see each other. It seems that Archie is scared by the sight of Merlin, rather than by his scent. Is that possible?

I rubbed a cloth on Merlin, and then on to Archie. Put a cloth with Merlin's scent under Archie's bowl. Fed them either side of a door. Brushed them with the same brush. I have even put vanilla essence on them both.

I also bought a dog cage which I put Merlin in. Archie was scared of the cage, even when it is empty so I had to take it away. He is a bit of a wuss.

Do you think I should separate them again?


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> I'm posting, not to distress you further, but simply to be truthful about my experience.... I had almost exactly the same situation as you some years ago (same genders, same age gap, same personality re older cat) and it was a disaster. Eventually, when our older cat began attacking us as well as the kitten we returned the kitten to the breeder. Sorry .


Thank you. Archie has bitten me a couple of times when I have tried to make him sit on my lap. I really want my loving cat back!


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

carly87 said:


> The problem is likely because the little one is trying to play with your old lad. Have you ever considered getting a second kitten as company for the first? I find this works well as the two youngsters tire each other out and give the older cat the space they need.


Do you really think that would help? Merlin is really playful. I'm just worried that Archie would be even more upset that I have gone and got another kitten. Perhaps I should try bringing Archie in and playing with Merlin, making sure he doesn't go anywhere near Archie. Maybe Archie will then see that Merlin means no harm?


----------



## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

When we bought Huck into the household our old boy Ben used to do the same. He would come in and eat but then go straight out of the cat flap. I used to make sure they ate in the same place and put them in our room together at night. It was tough for the first few days and really it took about 3 weeks for Ben to behave normally again.

I agree with Carly, Merlin just wants to play with Archie but Archie doesn't want to know. If you could play with Merlin it will take the pressure of him wanting to play with Archie.

I hope it gets better xx


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

Hi Huckybuck. So did you feed your cats at the same time in the same room? I hadn't though about keeping them both in the same room overnight. At the moment I put Merlin in his bedroom, and let Archie have the run of the house x


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Please take the kitten back, whilst its young enough to find another loving home. Your elderly cat needs to come first. I have six cats, but they are/and have always been accepting of newcomers. Some cats just need to be the only cat and such stress is just not good for an elderly cat.


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

Ang2 said:


> Please take the kitten back, whilst its young enough to find another loving home. Your elderly cat needs to come first. I have six cats, but they are/and have always been accepting of newcomers. Some cats just need to be the only cat and such stress is just not good for an elderly cat.


Hi Ang. I can take Merlin back to my sister in law, for her to keep, at any time, so he will always have a loving home. Archie hasn't always been an only cat, but has been for the last seven years. He got on so well with my other cat, so I am a bit surprised he hasn't warmed up to the kitten yet.

My husband has told me that this is my only chance to have a kitten as he will not have any more in the future, so if there is any chance it might work out I would like to try.

Of course, Archie's well being comes first and if that means taking Merlin back, then I will x


----------



## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

VickyA79 said:


> Merlin was going crazy being shut in a bedroom on his own, which made me feel terrible. I did spend as much time with him as possible. Archie didn't seem particularly bothered by Merlin's scent, which was why I thought it'd be okay to let them see each other. It seems that Archie is scared by the sight of Merlin, rather than by his scent. Is that possible?
> 
> I rubbed a cloth on Merlin, and then on to Archie. Put a cloth with Merlin's scent under Archie's bowl. Fed them either side of a door. Brushed them with the same brush.
> 
> Do you think I should separate them again?


I've experienced that - in some cases - elaborate scent swapping helps with introductions. So maybe with re-introductions too. This is what I was asked to do for my cats to make them believe they're best friends. But to be clear for the first 5-6 weeks they lived in separate rooms but we let them use (not at the same time) some areas such as kitchen, hallway and our lounge.

How many litter trays do you have? I have 2 litter trays and when Daisy moved in with us, she was locked in the room with her own tray and Leo used a separate one. But at the end of the day I had to swap them, often without cleaning them fully. The next trick was to give my cats smaller portions in the morning so they ate their food and licked the bowl. Then I had to swap the bowls without cleaning them and put more food in. Saliva is very fragrant and by exchanging saliva cats learn to recognise and accept each other. I actually used this trick with bowl swapping more than once a day.

The next stage for me was to feed my cats at the same time but keep them a fair distance apart but still allow them to look at each other. I had to be ready to step in to stop any potential trouble. This was to let my Leo associate nice things like food with Daisy, the trouble maker. Every few days I had to make this distance shorter and shorter. Seriously, after 3 weeks Daisy was able to eat and ignore Leo who was by then less than half a meter away. Needless to say, supervision of any interaction was still necessary. They slept in separate rooms and behind shut doors. After about 5 weeks I opened the doors to Leo's room one morning and Daisy was waiting right outside. She came in and they just nicely greeted each other 

My Leo is 13 and Daisy isn't a kitten so our case is different. I gave Zylkene to Leo to help him cope with this stressful situation.

So is it possible for you to keep them separate? Some forum members mentioned fitting a chicken wire screen into a door frame of one of the rooms to separate the kitties but still allow the visual contact.

What do you think of all the above? Is it worth a try? If you can't resolve the situation I think it's not fair on both cats to live in a stressful environment and the kitten may need to go back to your sis.


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

Ragdollsfriend - thank you for all your suggestions. I have two litter trays. Archie doesn't actually use one, but he has one anyway.The other one is in Merlin's room. 

How did you make things work when the cats were separated? Did you spend an hour with each for example? Merlin constantly cries when he is on his own.

I forgot to say that when Archie is in the garden, he is like his normal self. He runs up to me, flops over, purrs etc. 

The more I think about it, the more I think I should take Merlin back. I haven't really got my husband's support on that though which makes it even more difficult  x


----------



## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Well it makes it easier with hubby's support. We actually slept in separate bedrooms for 5-6 weeks to ensure Leo and Daisy had company 

They are both indoor cats so I had to manage the use of different areas in our flat. During the day Leo was most comfortable in the master bedroom and so I had to make it en-suite :biggrin: basically I put his litter tray in the bedroom. During the night, he had the run of the house and Daisy slept with my hubby in the guest bedroom. Things were easier to manage over the weekends so often Leo spent a few hours with us in the lounge and Daisy was out exploring the flat. And then we had to make a swap. I worked from home a lot to keep an eye on them both. And Leo stayed on Zylkene for about 10 days. Zylkene is a supplement and a safe one to use when a pet is stressed. You can buy it from your vet or online as you don't need a prescription.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Please have a read through the following:

Multi-cat households and how to survive them | international cat care


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

So there may be a small amount of improvement last night. I was able to get Archie to play in the house, chasing a bit of string, in front of Merlin. He only played for a couple of minutes, but I'm still quite pleased. 

Merlin managed to creep up behind Archie and touch his back. Archie purred, until he realised it was Merlin and then started hissing.

Thank you for all the suggestions. Ragdollsfriend - I let Merlin lick some Lick-e-Lix out of Archie's bowl last night and Archie has eaten out of the bowl since. I can't swap their bowls at the moment as Merlin has a kitten's bowl and I think Archie would struggle to eat from it. I will buy new ones this weekend. I have just ordered some Zylkene. Thank you for all the suggestions. 

Shoshannah - thank you for the link. It was interesting to read. I will buy extra bowls for food and water and also place them in different areas. At the moment Archie's bowl is against a wall, so he can't see anything when he is eating. I wondered why he would sometimes take his food to other areas to eat.


----------



## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Well done Archie and Merlin and you of course! There's hope 
I can also suggest to give Archie extra praise and attention when you see him anywhere near Merlin. Then he'll associate Merlin with all the good things. You're one of the "resources" both cats share so keep finding ways to divide your love and attention equally :biggrin: 

Well Merlin being a kitten may appreciate more playtime with you but I bet Archie also likes playing. I play with both my kitties at the same time but also have 1:1 sessions.


----------



## Sherylina (Sep 17, 2012)

Its difficult because kittens can be a bit much for adult cats sometimes as they are still learning social skills and manners so they will be jumping on their backs, etc and they need to be put in their place by this cat so they know it is not ok to do that. I imagine the situation would improve as he gets older and is not so hyper and is neutered and also as he is also allowed outside (if thats what you are planning to do)

I think if i was you i would be allowing them both full run of the house (except when you are out or at night) as i feel that they are only going to get used to each others presence and accept that the other is here to stay if they are given regular opportunities to meet around the house.

That said it's easy for me to say that when i can't see the interaction and how distressed Archie is and as my own two cats have never really liked each other i'm used to spats and what wouldnt concern me might concern someone else x


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

Hi Sherylina. I've been trying my best to just leave them to it, but I get worried when Archie starts making this horrible yowling sound, like he is in pain. When I rescue him, I can feel his heart beating so fast. 

I'm going to spend a lot of time this weekend, making sure they are together, but not letting Merlin touch Archie (if possible). 

I will post an update early next week. Thanks again for all the advice I have been given x


----------



## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Vicky, I've just re-read the notes a cat behaviour expert left for me when she observed my cats during their "introduction" period. One of her recommendations was to break the eye contact between the cats as soon as the howling or growling begins. So we used a large cushion from our sofa to separate Daisy and Leo when they sat in the same room. If you have a big enough cardboard box, you can flatten it and use as a "screen". 

I think a kitten benefits from any interaction whether with another befriended cat or a human. It just needs lots of opportunities to practise the stalk, catch, kill routine. I use Flying Frenzy to play with my kitties. And Daisy loves to hunt ping pong balls or even pieces of paper crushed into balls 

Have you watched any TV series with Jackson Galaxy (My Cat from Hell)? Or read his book?


----------



## Kcabrera3 (Jul 27, 2014)

VickyA79 said:


> Thank you. Archie has bitten me a couple of times when I have tried to make him sit on my lap. I really want my loving cat back!


This must be so heart breaking....


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

Thought I'd give a quick update. Archie is now coming in the house of his own accord, several times a day. I no longer have to tempt him with treats or catch him. He will lie down, roll over and purr and I can get him to play quite easily now. He still hisses at Merlin, and is not interested in sitting on my lap still. He still prefers to be outside.

On Saturday, Archie was lying on the rug and Merlin stood next to him, went up on his back legs and started waving his arms around like he wanted to play. Archie got into the position like he wanted to play too, but then remembered he didn't like Merlin, so sat up and hit him instead. 

They have batted paws under the door, with Archie hissing the whole time. No claws were out. 

I have ordered Zylkene which will hopefully arrive today. Also, Archie seems a bit more relaxed since I unplugged the feliway plug-ins. 

I hope these are all positive things! x


----------



## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

Hi, 

How's it going now? I have a similar problem. Me and my bf have a 2 year old male cat which we've had since he was a kitten, about 3 weeks ago my bf surprised me a kitten. The kitten is from the same breeder as our 2 year old and the breeder said we didn't need to do the slow introduction, wish we had. For the first week we let them roam free, which was a mistake, we've since separated them. When we do let them spend time together now it doesn't take long for a fight to start, it's not a bad fight, but still not great. I give our older cat treats when he's good and have started to do the scent swapping, tho both their scents are around the flat already. We've only had the kitten 3 weeks so it's too early to consider rehoming isn't it? I've been thinking about getting some feliway, do you think that might help, one for each cat!

Any help gratefully received! X


----------



## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Have a look at the tips on Jackson Galaxy's website about cat-to-cat introductions. He writes about scent swapping and site swapping. And there's a video clip CAT MOJO: How To Introduce Two Cats
Little Big Cat | Mind-Body Consulting for Cats


----------



## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

I have been watching My Cat From hell, my cats are angels compared to some that are in that show! Do you think that we ruined our chances of a happy union by letting the cats together in the first week? X


----------



## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Fosterprops said:


> I have been watching My Cat From hell, my cats are angels compared to some that are in that show! Do you think that we ruined our chances of a happy union by letting the cats together in the first week? X


Nope, I honestly don't think you've ruined your chances. You can just try to re-introduce them. I kept mine separate for about 5 days and then let them out -under supervision - and they fought and my resident cat felt really miserable after that encounter. So I had to figure out how to give them another chance. I got a cat behaviour expert involved to help us. My expert said pretty much what Jackson G says about scent swapping and site swapping. My Leo and Daisy are indoor cats so it was a bit easier to keep an eye on them. The process simply takes time. In our case it was 5-6 weeks of true daily effort to swap their bedding, their litter trays, putting Leo for a few hours in the lounge and shutting the door while Daisy explored the rest of our flat then putting her in the lounge etc.


----------



## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks for your help, have you ever used feliway? My bf doesn't really want to use it as he thinks once we start using it we'll have to use it forever.


----------



## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Fosterprops said:


> Thanks for your help, have you ever used feliway? My bf doesn't really want to use it as he thinks once we start using it we'll have to use it forever.


I bought the Feliway spray and used it on a few scratching posts and on my carpet here and there but it did nothing for us  However, I got Zylkene for Leo to help him cope with the stress and after about 48 hrs he was visibly calmer and less scared. Zylkene is a supplement available online or from a vet without prescription.


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

I think things are getting a bit better. Archie has been taking zylkene for three days now and he doesn't seem scared of Merlin now. He still hisses and hits him if he gets too close.

This afternoon is the first time Archie has slept in the house while Merlin is freely roaming around. We are frantically trying to stop Merlin jumping on him at the moment.









I'm not sure if the photo will show up as I'm on my phone. It was taken this morning. Unfortunately Merlin jumped on Archie just after the photo was taken, but it's the closest they have been without hissing.

I definitely recommend Zylkene. Feliway didn't do much x


----------



## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Vicky, that's wonderful news that Archie slept in the house :001_smile: thanks for sharing the pic!

Merlin being a kitten is just a ball of energy. Can you up his playtime to tire him out a little more? And if you see Merlin trying to pounce on Archie, just pull him gently away and distract with a toy


----------



## Guest (Sep 14, 2014)

Hi there.

I'm very lucky as my 14 year old Burmese gets along wonderfully with our 4 month old kitten.

Even so, I try and take a bit of pressure off our old Burmese by playing and tiring out our kitten when I can see his antics are getting a bit too much for our old boy.

I'm wondering if maybe you could do this that way the kitten would be more calm so it would be easier for them to make friends.


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

For some reason, the kitten is completely obsessed with Archie. We will play constantly with Merlin to the point where he is falling asleep, then let Archie in, but as soon as Merlin realises Archie is home, he is wide awake and doing his best to touch him.

Archie seems a bit calmer. He normally walks past Merlin without hissing now, even if Merlin is up on his back legs waving his arms around. He still spends a lot of time outside though, which I hope will get better soon. I have a cat behaviour expert coming on Wednesday.

I took Merlin to be neutered this morning, but the vet said she could only feel one testicle so she refused to do it. I was hoping it would help if he was neutered. I guess I'll have to wait a few more weeks to find out x


----------



## apricot (Sep 25, 2012)

I was advised to get two kittens so they would play together and leave Old Cat alone. It worked and Old Cat liked the kittens to sleep with her and keep her warm.
I have a new rescue dog who has chased the young cats when they dashed away from her and now the cats won't come indoors except at night. They're too timid to move in with anyone else. They've always been mostly outdoor cats. I just hope time and colder weather will bring them in, the new dog will not hurt them.


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

Hi apricot. I have thought about getting another kitten, but I'm so worried that it will make things worse. I have done so much research, and I think Archie may be timid too, which is why he runs away from Merlin. 

I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but I read on another thread that when Merlin goes to pounce at Archie, I need to lift Archie slightly off the ground, and scoot him towards Merlin, so it looks like Archie is running at him. I tried it this morning, and Merlin was really shocked and he ran away and hid. Archie looked quite pleased with himself and stayed in a bit longer than usual. It said not to overdo it because it can turn the timid cat into a bully x


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

I had my meeting with the cat behaviour expert today and I have made the sad and very difficult decision to rehome Merlin. My parents want him, so at the moment I am at their house trying to help Merlin settle in. I feel awful. I just hope Merlin won't be upset and that Archie returns to being himself. My parents live 5 minutes away so I can see Merlin whenever I want x


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Why on earth did the cat behaviourist recommend that!


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

She didn't recommend it as such, she just said a few things that made me feel so bad for my cat. She suggested that I make a room in the house just for Archie, that has a micro chipped cat flap, so only he can get in there. That would mean that he would feel happier coming in the house, but he wouldn't be with us. I asked how long she thought it would take for him to start using the house again to sleep, sit on my lap etc and apparently, due to his age, it may never happen. Archie would just live in one room of the house, on his own.

She said the only way for Archie to go back to living the life he had, would be to re-home Merlin. Do you think I've done the wrong thing? I'm so upset and confused


----------



## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

I've just been to visit Merlin and my parents introduced him to their two cats. One is a 15 year old female, the other a three year old male rescue cat. The difference between how Archie reacted compared to them was unbelievable. The female hissed a bit at first but is now fine. The male cat rubbed himself up against Merlin and took an instant like to him. I think I have made the right decision. Hopefully Archie will be back to.himself soon x


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

VickyA79 said:


> I've just been to visit Merlin and my parents introduced him to their two cats. One is a 15 year old female, the other a three year old male rescue cat. The difference between how Archie reacted compared to them was unbelievable. The female hissed a bit at first but is now fine. The male cat rubbed himself up against Merlin and took an instant like to him. I think I have made the right decision. Hopefully Archie will be back to.himself soon x


Sorry it's ended up this way, but I'm glad Merlin seems to have settled so well with your parents' cats and that you can visit him regularly!

Cats are naturally a solitary species, who have evolved to live in groups under some circumstances, but many just need to live on their own and Archie is obviously one of them. In this sense he is pretty normal for a cat.

I suppose, with time, he may have settled with Merlin but you gave it a fair chance and there's no suggestion that it would have been fair to Archie to go through such a large amount of stress in the process.

Hope Archie is back to himself soon xxx


----------



## CERIANNE (Jul 18, 2014)

I am currently in the same position but I am happy to say we are making slow but positive progress. My older cat "Jess" isnt unhappy just cant be bothered with our playful kitten "Millie". Jess is 4 and we've had Millie for nearly 3 months and the progress although slow is definately positive. We are at the stage when they roam in the garden together with a bit of hissing, with us watching on but they dont roam together indoors yet. When they are both indoors one of us is holding Millie.

Millie is learning who is the boss and Jess is coming around slowly. Our next step is to spend more time roaming together in the garden and then indoors.

It is slow but definately positive and if Jess comes indoors and cant see Millie she's looking for her.

Fingers, legs and everything crossed.


----------



## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

I ordered some zylkene today as my older cat is getting worse, he hisses and growls at the kitten, even tho they're still separated. If the zylkene does work and chills my older cat out so I can reintroduce them will he go back to being a stress/angry cat once he stops taking the medication? I fully expect him to be on it for at least a few weeks.


----------

