# Do you sell to new owners that will let the cat outside?



## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

For all you breeders..............

Do you only sell to people who will keep the cats in??


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

i don't have cats, but if i did buy one i would'nt like the idea of not being able to choose what i wanted for my cat...


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

If I was a breeder I wouldn't sell a pedigree cat to someone who would let it outside.. NO WAY!


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## PoppyLily (Jan 8, 2008)

I currently have pedigree bengal kittens for sale - this is my first litter - but i will definately only be selling to people who will keep them as indoor cats.


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## Kat28 (Mar 19, 2008)

I dont breed cats but have 3, 2 of which are persians who go outside. Up until us moving they were only allowed out when we were in but now we have plenty of land and dont live near any busy roads so they have a cat flap and come and go as they please. I personally wouldnt buy a cat if i was told i couldnt let it out as i love to watch mine laid out in the sun or playing with the kids in the garden. But every one has there own opinions on this. 1 of them spends more time in than he does out though. The only thing I would definatly want to know is that unless you were selling them as a cat to be used for breeding which then would obviously be kept in so they didnt end up pregnant by the local moggie  they would be spayed as i think there are alot of people who buy them have a litter of kittens from the female just to make money out of them and not as a pet first that can have a litter now and then.Please no one take offence to this I know eveyone who breeds cats on here loves there animals first. But not everyone see it like this.


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

I would not sell to anyone who would let a cat roam free outside unsupervised and certainly not to someone who puts the cat out at night. My queens' babies are very special and should be pampered pets. I do not insist that a cat should always only stay indoors - if a responsible owner chooses to have the cat out with them in their own *enclosed garden or cat run and then bring them in again at night*, this would be ok as far as I am concerned. The prime concern is the cat's wellbeing.

I know there are those who have lovely homes out in the wild countryside whose cats are allowed to roam - its up to the individual but I would still be cautious of selling to such a possible home - it only takes one accident to destroy a cat's life or take it away altogether.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Yes its definately a sensitive subject so please everyone keep it nice 

The reason I ask is because although I dont want any of my litters to go outside ideally - i didnt know whether i should put that restriction on potential owners or not


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Yes its definately a sensitive subject so please everyone keep it nice
> 
> The reason I ask is because although I dont want any of my litters to go outside ideally - i didnt know whether i should put that restriction on potential owners or not


I am not a breeder but agree 100% with raa - it's not so much not allowing them outside as not allowing 'free roaming' so pen, supervised in secure garden or harness are all ok. I live in the middle of the peaceful countryside and lived in the centre of London I never lost a cat on the road in the city but did here coz the roads are quieter and they become complacent and don't expect cars.
I don't know how you would actually enforce someone keeping it in - but to say you don't give cats to people who let them outside makes new owners think about this - the majority would understand and can then make decisions.
I have been researching a bit recently and have not seen many breeders that don't state that kittens should not be allowed to 'free roam' and also very few that don't say their cats will be listed on the non-active register (unless by prior arrangement).
Sorry that's long


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I have no problem with my kitten buyers providing access to the outside, as long as it is a safe area and they are not left out all all long or all night. 

If you stipulate indoor homes only, I am not sure you would be able to enforce that. Some kitten buyers will tell you anything if they really want the kitten, and you have no power over them once the kitten is sold. 

I have list of conditions, but I never advertise them. I find out as much as I can about the person and their intentions etc, and just find an excuse for the ones that don't meet my criteria. 

Google earth is a good way of viewing where someone lives, so if they tell you they live in a small quiet cul-de-sac you can see from there whether they do or not.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Yes its definately a sensitive subject so please everyone keep it nice
> 
> The reason I ask is because although I dont want any of my litters to go outside ideally - i didnt know whether i should put that restriction on potential owners or not


just curious..how would you know if they let them out, they might say they would'nt just to please you..as i said only curious as the thought crossed my mind reading this thread.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Saikou said:


> I have no problem with my kitten buyers providing access to the outside, as long as it is a safe area and they are not left out all all long or all night.
> 
> If you stipulate indoor homes only, I am not sure you would be able to enforce that. Some kitten buyers will tell you anything if they really want the kitten, and you have no power over them once the kitten is sold.
> 
> ...


he he i used googleearth for that, and the owners were telling the truth and my kitten and her other cat both go outdoors and love it!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> Google earth is a good way of viewing where someone lives, so if they tell you they live in a small quiet cul-de-sac you can see from there whether they do or not.


*Hahaha, i've done that too*


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## Kay73 (Mar 26, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> he he i used googleearth for that, and the owners were telling the truth and my kitten and her other cat both go outdoors and love it!





Selk67U2 said:


> *Hahaha, i've done that too*


that is so crafty... i love it... lol
if i was a breeder i would insist on indoor homes only!


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Kay73 said:


> that is so crafty... i love it... lol
> if i was a breeder i would insist on indoor homes only!


Yeh the breeders of my 2 said I had to keep Alfie & Lola indoors.. especially with Raggies as they are too trusting.. God only knows what trouble they'd get into in the great outdoors!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*I've known of people who have said they'll keep them indoors and don't, sadly i've heard of at least 3 Norwegians this year being killed after being let out and the owners were told not to let them. One even went back to the breeder to ask for another kitten....you can guess what answer they got!*


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## Kay73 (Mar 26, 2008)

bee112 said:


> Yeh the breeders of my 2 said I had to keep Alfie & Lola indoors.. especially with Raggies as they are too trusting.. God only knows what trouble they'd get into in the great outdoors!


i had to sign a contract to keep him indoors, i'm glad i did, i can tell people who say he should go out that i cant let him out and the reasons, also i dont have to worry about their safety, rta's theft etc...
sayin that why would anyone pay hundreds of pounds for a cat then let them out i know i wouldn't...


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Kay73 said:


> i had to sign a contract to keep him indoors, i'm glad i did, i can tell people who say he should go out that i cant let him out and the reasons, also i dont have to worry about their safety, rta's theft etc...
> sayin that why would anyone pay hundreds of pounds for a cat then let them out i know i wouldn't...


Because Kay if they get a kitten and as soon as it starts demanding attention through boredom some owners will just let them out rather than try and keep them stimulated.

I cant even imagine letting my 2 out, imagine if I did and something happen, what on earth would you tell the breeder?!


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Rraa said:


> I would not sell to anyone who would let a cat roam free outside unsupervised and certainly not to someone who puts the cat out at night. My queens' babies are very special and should be pampered pets. I do not insist that a cat should always only stay indoors - if a responsible owner chooses to have the cat out with them in their own *enclosed garden or cat run and then bring them in again at night*, this would be ok as far as I am concerned. The prime concern is the cat's wellbeing.
> 
> I know there are those who have lovely homes out in the wild countryside whose cats are allowed to roam - its up to the individual but I would still be cautious of selling to such a possible home - it only takes one accident to destroy a cat's life or take it away altogether.


Second that Rita


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## LittleFluff (Jun 5, 2008)

It's really interesting reading this thread (sorry i'm not a breeder but hope it's ok for me to comment) as I've found that i've had to justify having our two cats as indoor cats I think people see it as cruel. Even the recue we got Dexter was a little funny about it (if he really wants to go out we should let him), but I have two reasons for having them as indoor, the first is general safety I would rather they lived to a good age than had complete freedom and got run over and the second being I don't let my dog Kez go and poop on other peoples gardens and if my cats were to be outdoor ones it's likely they would do just that. It winds me up when I have to continually clean cat poo out of my front garden when my two go in their litter tray. 
Is interesting to see the reasons and know that i'm not being unreasonable by keeping them this way 
(BTW they do get outside sessions on a harness)


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Usually LFluff it's peeps that don't have cats or assume that cats are only happy when they have totally free reign of freedom,and also assume that a cat is a cat is a cat and will automatically have road and people sense-which sadly most of us know isn't true or they haven't experienced the full on heartache a preventive death brings


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks for everyones views - i know its a touchy subject.

Its funny cos i was talking about my cats today at work and a lady said she would love to have a cat but cant as she lives in a flat and it wudnt have access to outdoors.

Its amazing how many people think its cruel to keep them indoors. I promptly told her of the dangers of letting it out! LOL


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> Its amazing how many people think its cruel to keep them indoors. I promptly told her of the dangers of letting it out! LOL


*Haha Zowie*


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## Kay73 (Mar 26, 2008)

bee112 said:


> Because Kay if they get a kitten and as soon as it starts demanding attention through boredom some owners will just let them out rather than try and keep them stimulated.
> 
> I cant even imagine letting my 2 out, imagine if I did and something happen, what on earth would you tell the breeder?!


my two have a box full of toys! they get too much love and attention, i love them so much, i would be devasteted if anything happened. i'm sure my breeder would go balistic if they were deliberately let out


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## LittleFluff (Jun 5, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Usually LFluff it's peeps that don't have cats or assume that cats are only happy when they have totally free reign of freedom,and also assume that a cat is a cat is a cat and will automatically have road and people sense-which sadly most of us know isn't true or they haven't experienced the full on heartache a preventive death brings


Makes sense, I think what was hardest was having to explain it to the rescue place I would have thought it would be a common request but instead felt a bit sheepish that i was even thinking of this. i'd done my homework and didn't think of it as being unusual until I mentioned it to others  I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if they were running about the streets!


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Me either-i mean you wouldn't leave your kids out all night and hope for the best


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## Kay73 (Mar 26, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Me either-i mean you wouldn't leave your kids out all night and hope for the best


Exactly!!!...


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

i've just tried that google earth.wow great isnt it!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> i've just tried that google earth.wow great isnt it!


*Lol, yea, Janice, the detail is fab*


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

I definitely wouldn't sell to someone that lets their cat roam outside. Its not that I think that people that do this are irresponsible, but they just need to be educated on the facts that cats are not savvy enough to cope with the dangers of the outside world. You wouldn't let a toddler loose in the same way

Indoor or outside in a cat safe garden or cat run is what I look for in new owners for my kittens. Living in a quiet country lane makes no difference to me at all as they are just in as much danger as if living in a city.

Sadly there have been many posts everywhere to prove this fact. 

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do to prevent new owners from letting their cats roam. Its a pity that there isn't a law similar to dogs preventing this.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*It's true Angeli, a cat recently got killed after getting out,( was'nt let out, it was a house cat) the people lived nearly a mile down a lane!!*


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Angeli said:


> I definitely wouldn't sell to someone that lets their cat roam outside. Its not that I think that people that do this are irresponsible, but they just need to be educated on the facts that cats are not savvy enough to cope with the dangers of the outside world. You wouldn't let a toddler loose in the same way
> 
> Indoor or outside in a cat safe garden or cat run is what I look for in new owners for my kittens. Living in a quiet country lane makes no difference to me at all as they are just in as much danger as if living in a city.
> 
> ...


Completely agree with this and other posts. Ok if they have an outdoor run or catproofed garden but under no other circumstances and I have it in my contract too, for what it is worth. I use the scare tactics with prospective owners, to point out just what could happen to the cat they have just paid hundreds for. C.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

But sadly at the end of the day you can not enforce that, whether you get them to sign a contract or not. There was a lot of debate a few years ago, about whether you could enforce that someone neuters a cat by a certain age, and the opinion was that because they come under the sales of goods act you can not enforce what some one does with their cat after the point of sale. I went to an NBA seminar where they had a guy from Trading Standards and it was his opinion that the contracts that breeders have were not legally binding. All you can rely on is that the kitten buyer doesn't know that.


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## sokeldachshunds (Jun 8, 2008)

I have an exotic and a persian and the only way I could have them from the breeders was that they would be indoor cats.This suited me fine as my moggy is also an indoor cat but they all do have access to a large fully enclosed run in the garden through a catflap in the kitchen window


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Saikou said:


> But sadly at the end of the day you can not enforce that, whether you get them to sign a contract or not. There was a lot of debate a few years ago, about whether you could enforce that someone neuters a cat by a certain age, and the opinion was that because they come under the sales of goods act you can not enforce what some one does with their cat after the point of sale. I went to an NBA seminar where they had a guy from Trading Standards and it was his opinion that the contracts that breeders have were not legally binding. All you can rely on is that the kitten buyer doesn't know that.


With the neutering issue you do have one thing in your favour, the pink slip, this can be witheld of course until vet proof of neutering is received. Then even if the new owner is underhand and breeds they will never have a registered offspring. Pity nothing similar can be done with regard to the keeping indoors issue


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

sokeldachshunds said:


> I have an exotic and a persian and the only way I could have them from the breeders was that they would be indoor cats.This suited me fine as my moggy is also an indoor cat but they all do have access to a large fully enclosed run in the garden through a catflap in the kitchen window


Well done you! what a star. Ideally all of my new owners would be like that


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Well hang on,

if breeder still has the pink slip and it hasent been transferred to the new owner then who is the legal owner of the kitten???

I know someone who successfully went and claimed a kitten back from a new owner who didn't stick to her agreement. The owner just handed the kitten back without putting up a fight apparently.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Angeli said:


> Well hang on,
> 
> if breeder still has the pink slip and it hasent been transferred to the new owner then who is the legal owner of the kitten???
> 
> I know someone who successfully went and claimed a kitten back from a new owner who didn't stick to her agreement. The owner just handed the kitten back without putting up a fight apparently.


Errrm well I would say the new owner. Whilst witholding the pink slip, I still give a kitten receipt for the payment. That person must have thought that the kitten contract could not be fought, that's all I can think. Don't get me wrong, I would do everything poss to fight my contract if I knew it had been broken, wether successful or not. Sounds like this person was and good on em!


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

why would you not sell to someone who would let a cat outside?
its natural for a cat to want to go outside otherwise you may as well keep them caged up all the time?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

They are not caged they run free in the house and know no different. Need I start listing the dangers for pedigrees again.....theft, rta, disease, unwanted pregnancy, fleas, ticks, foxes etc. etc. They lead very happy SAFE live and can also be let outside under controlled circumstances like cat runs, cat proofed gardens and harnesses, if the owner feels like they are kept inside against their will. Mine are not exactly scratching at the windows and doors to get out, they are very content with their indoor lifestyle


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> why would you not sell to someone who would let a cat outside?
> its natural for a cat to want to go outside otherwise you may as well keep them caged up all the time?


I dont have any problems with cats going outside, just as long as they are safely within the owners property and not let loose to roam.


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

I wont sell a kitten that would be allowed outside unattended,
however if the owner has (for instance a farm) or live in a property with land away from roads which a couple of my kitten buyers have I have broken my rule of saying NO to my cats going outside(these people are few and far between)
Other owners have made secure cat runs in there gardens, and others walk them on a lead around the garden.
At the end of the day you have to take peoples word that your kitten will be a house cat, can we ever be 100% sure ?


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> They are not caged they run free in the house and know no different. Need I start listing the dangers for pedigrees again.....theft, rta, disease, unwanted pregnancy, fleas, ticks, foxes etc. etc. They lead very happy SAFE live and can also be let outside under controlled circumstances like cat runs, cat proofed gardens and harnesses, if the owner feels like they are kept inside against their will. Mine are not exactly scratching at the windows and doors to get out, they are very content with their indoor lifestyle


Exactly,ours are happy with their indoor/outdoor life. Pedigree cats or at least our Siamese are indoor cats and have access to outdoors into their catrun-which is better in everyway than a lot of peeps houses-seriously,and our old man asbo purebred moggie has blossomed in every way since he got his own party pad,i can totally assure you Beth that none of our cats are caged-ever-they are our family,though not a bad idea for our human kids at times


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> why would you not sell to someone who would let a cat outside?
> its natural for a cat to want to go outside otherwise you may as well keep them caged up all the time?


Not at all, my cats are strictly indoor cats and are very happy and healthy cats.

They have the run of the house and and have never shown any interest going outside.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

would you keep a pedigree dog inside all the time?


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Yes I would never let any dog roam freely.. would take it on walks and let it in the garden - same goes for my kitties


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> would you keep a pedigree dog inside all the time?


Thats a bit different,dogs go out on leads,are supervised.not allowed to wander freely around the streets.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Thats a bit different,dogs go out on leads,are supervised.not allowed to wander freely around the streets.


yeh.. if a dog was to run freely it would, like a cat, get run over get stolen etc..


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

Fade to Grey said:


> would you keep a pedigree dog inside all the time?


Wouldn't you????????


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

why not take the cats for a walk like dogs?
atleast then it doesn't have to be stuck in a house 24/7?


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2008)

lots of people do this,also some have large runs in the garden so they can play.indoor cats are rarely confined to a housejust not allowed to roam freely around the streets.check out jayzuris bengals run for a good example.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

i do take Alfie & Lola out on their harness's..

But put it this way, if I let them out to wander freely I wouldnt have them for very long


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

i'm just building a picture here.

what about "moggies", would they be allowed to wander freely?


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> i'm just building a picture here.
> 
> what about "moggies", would they be allowed to wander freely?


If I had a moggie I would want to keep it as an indoor cat too..

I've had outdoor cats in the past and they have been run over, killed by a fox, oh and one was attacked by a dog!

So, no I would never have any cat roam freely, it's just not safe any more sadly


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

i'm just building a picture here.

what about "moggies", would they be allowed to wander freely?


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

ahh de ja vu lol


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

lol why'd it post twice? 
but cool, i just wanted a whole picture otherwise if someone let out moggies and not pedigrees it would be like they value the life of a certain cat over another.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

lol no worries


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> but cool, i just wanted a whole picture otherwise if someone let out moggies and not pedigrees it would be like they value the life of a certain cat over another


*I have both and they are all treated the same, they're all precious. I'd never let mine out to wander. We have our yard cat proofed, so nothing can get in and ours can't get out, but they are still supervised or they go in the run on a nice day for a few hours for some fresh air*


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

Selk67U2 said:


> *I have both and they are all treated the same, they're all precious. I'd never let mine out to wander. We have our yard cat proofed, so nothing can get in and ours can't get out, but they are still supervised or they go in the run on a nice day for a few hours for some fresh air*


cool. how do you cat proof it, like with netting over it or something?


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Yea, we have high walls round anyway, so made the most of it with trellising and netting
Here's a pic, excuse the mess, lol, we're still not finished out there*


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## sokeldachshunds (Jun 8, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> i'm just building a picture here.
> 
> what about "moggies", would they be allowed to wander freely?


I have a moggy aswell as the 2 pedigrees and she is also an indoor cat,there has been 5 cats killed this year alone on our 400yrds stretch of road and mine will not be the next ones.

They know nothing else but free range around the whole house and into the run that is 20ft x 12 ft.We actualy have table chairs and lounger in there so when we sit outside we are with the cats so really its just an enclosed section of the garden


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2008)

If I was a breeder of Pedigree cats, I would not sell to owners that would let the kitten outside.

I have 2 Ragdolls and they are NOT allowed outside, I wouldn't dream of letting them out either. They have no street sense and I really would hate to think what could/would happen to them. They would probably also get stolen. 
I am currently deciding on building a pen/run in my back garden for my cats to enjoy some time outside and to get some fresh air... but of course in the safety of their own back garden, and me knowing they cannot escape and get into trouble.

If I had a moggy I would let it have free roam of outdoors, but that's only if I had a moggy and no other cats. If I was to get a moggy to live here with my pedigree cats, then I'd probably make that an indoor cat also.


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

Both my cats go out, I'll always let them out, even though there are risks. Reason being they were both born outside, free to roam (one stray, one farm cat) so it wouldn't be fair of me to then restrict what they've already known. 

Yes there are risks, I'm fully aware of them, but it's my decision to allow them out.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> lol why'd it post twice?
> but cool, i just wanted a whole picture otherwise if someone let out moggies and not pedigrees it would be like they value the life of a certain cat over another.


Not at all,not for us at least and i'm sure not for anyone else,our asbo moggie Noodles is just as much loved and cared for as our posh cats/kitts so to speak and npne of them have ever been and are not stuck in the house 24/7I know it's hard to imagine if you don't have indoor cats but have a look at peeps cats/kitts and see how miserable and imprisoned they don't look..because they are not..it's not like jail where they're on 23 hr bang up with an hr for exercise as a reward for good behaviour


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Not at all,not for us at least and i'm sure not for anyone else,our asbo moggie Noodles is just as much loved and cared for as our posh cats/kitts so to speak and npne of them have ever been and are not stuck in the house 24/7I know it's hard to imagine if you don't have indoor cats but have a look at peeps cats/kitts and see how miserable and imprisoned they don't look..because they are not..it's not like jail where they're on 23 hr bang up with an hr for exercise as a reward for good behaviour


Yes but unfortunately people always seem to think that! Yet it's just the same as keeping a dog and not letting it roam free..

Like the whole "put the cat out for the night" thing


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

bee112 said:


> Like the whole "put the cat out for the night" thing


This is a culture thing and I am not sure that people do this. Having said that I have been adopted by a moggie who would be horrified to be kept in at night. She has changed from totally self reliant (frog eating, mouse eating outside cat) to tolerating being indoors but not being stroked at all by me because she adored our male neutered huge Maine Coon (since died) to accepting me as a stroker (after death of MC).

What i am saying is that some cats are tough and street wise, others can cope with out but may not be good at night.

If I hadn't happened on this forum I think my 2 would be given a choice of out while I was around (but not when I was out then they would be in!)


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

I wish id been educated about cats not having to go outside years ago

I had a gorgeous grey cat called Smokey (original huh) not pedigree but I didnt care .. and believing all cats should have freedom I let her roam 

one day some kids came running to my door screaming some teenagers had gotten hold of her and were taking her into the fields to 'have some fun' with their dog

By the time I got there it was too late , my poor girl  

When my parents got some cats I advised them never to let them out , and would advise anyone who owned a cat to do the same , pedigree or not


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Mese said:


> I wish id been educated about cats not having to go outside years ago
> 
> I had a gorgeous grey cat called Smokey (original huh) not pedigree but I didnt care .. and believing all cats should have freedom I let her roam
> 
> ...


OMG that is awfull! Thats the thing.. yes it would be lovely for all animals to be able to roam freely but it's not possible anymore.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*OMG Thats just awful, there are some seriously sick people out there lately, we've had similar incidents here recently*


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## felineadorer (Jun 12, 2008)

Mese 

That's just awful, did you report the teenagers to the police or contact their parents?


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## Jayuzuri (Mar 26, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> lots of people do this,also some have large runs in the garden so they can play.indoor cats are rarely confined to a housejust not allowed to roam freely around the streets.check out jayzuris bengals run for a good example.


We would never let our cats out free to run across roads and so on , i have seen to many cats that have been hit by cars , i could never run the risk of one of our cats ending up like this.
Our cats are free to go out side as and when they like in the run and are more then happy to be in the home and not running free.
If poeple have the room then a few hundred pounds to make a run , as got to be better then paying a lot more for vets and see your cat in all that pain.


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## Kay73 (Mar 26, 2008)

Jayuzuri said:


> We would never let our cats out free to run across roads and so on , i have seen to many cats that have been hit by cars , i could never run the risk of one of our cats ending up like this.
> Our cats are free to go out side as and when they like in the run and are more then happy to be in the home and not running free.
> If poeple have the room then a few hundred pounds to make a run , as got to be better then paying a lot more for vets and see your cat in all that pain.


very good point, i have a moggy and a pedigree, both are indoor cats and very precious to me, they have access to a cat run via kitchen window!http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-chat/6121-my-cat-run.html


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Your type of run would be brill for my place Bee. Was it a diy or did you get someone in to do it, if so, where did you get it from? C.x.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Chrissy do you mean Kay as I havnt got a cat run!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Kays cat run is fab*


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

Selk67U2 said:


> *Kays cat run is fab*


*
and wots wrong wiv mine *


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Hahaha, nothing Linda, yours is fab too, i'm jealous of you both, lol*


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

lol well Chrissy likes my cat run best because its invisible!


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

Selk67U2 said:


> *Hahaha, nothing Linda, yours is fab too, i'm jealous of you both, lol*


*aahhhh bless no need to be, *


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## Kay73 (Mar 26, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *Kays cat run is fab*


Thanks, clare7577's hubby made it



bee112 said:


> lol well Chrissy likes my cat run best because its invisible!


where can i get one like yours bee??


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> For all you breeders..............
> 
> Do you only sell to people who will keep the cats in??


Not at all. Unless of course they live on a busy road. There are plenty of areas that are perfectly safe for cats. If anything, assuming we are talking about a pet owner, I would give preference to someone who was going to let the cat out (subject to the road)

Liz


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

I think opinions are generally different for pedigree and non-pedigree here, not because we value the life of a pedigree anymore than that of a moggie, but because pedigrees carry a much higher risk of being stolen.

I can completely understand how breeders consider their litters to be very precious and most are very careful how they select homes, but dont be under the impression that cats allowed outdoors are any less loved than those that are kept inside. I think the most important thing is to get a really good feel for how well this cat is going to be loved, looked after and played with. And to make sure the potential owner has fully thought through this decision and knows what they are letting themselves in for.

I know a lady (who is actually having 2 of my little kittens) that got 2 pedigrees, she signed a contract to say she would keep them in. When she bought them, she had every intention of keeping them in, she was not lying to the breeder. But once she had them for a little while, she felt cruel keeping them in (lets not get into the rights and wrongs of letting cats out as that is a completely different thread), suffice to say she sometimes lets them out. The breeder could not of foreseen this and is probably none the wiser.

Although I would not have a pedigree (couldnt afford it and love normal moggies) I would probably feel the same way, I feel so horrible when my cat (that just had a litter and should never have been pregnant!) cries to go outside even though I know its for her own good to stay in. I do have a lead for her, but she doesnt like it.

Ultimately it is the breeders decision to seek out the type of homes they want for their kittens, and the breeder needs a sort of tick list for their most important requirements, I for example would not want to sell a kitten to someone who had never had a kitten before (unless I was really really really sure of them) just because I would be so worried that it would be a 5 minute wonder for them. I know that may sound silly. 
If you decide that you want the kittens you sell to stay indoors, then that is completely up to you. while they are in your hands, they are your cats and it is up to you what you do with them.

The only thing I would say is you may find yourself loosing very good outside homes and ending up with not so good inside homes. I am not a breeder, and have never had pedigrees, so I wouldnt know how much pedigree cats are in demand, one thing I do know, is I was in-undated with people wanting my kittens so was able to choose exactly who I wanted!

sorry I have really rambled there


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## Meezers (Jun 13, 2008)

I dont stipulate that my kittens go to indoor homes only, i just say id rather they be kept indoors as they dont seem to be very roadwise and being pedigree they are more likely to be stolen, but i dont think you could enforce that a cat be kept indoors only, as much as id like to. I certainly would'nt like a cat to be put out all night, cos i hate to see cats out at night anyway, pedigree or moggy, theres a lot of bad people about that hurt cats


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

I am a pedigree owner of Maine Coons.

I had absolutely no compunction of letting my first MC out - we bought him in 1993 - its what cats do - go outside. Even when he went missing for a week he still went outside - don't think I even considered keeping him in.

I now have 2 neutered MCs who are adopted and 3 and 2 years old. This forum has made me think about letting the cats outside.

The male shows no inclination to go outside. The female desparately wants to and I have let her.

I met an owner of 2 bengals and a Norwegian Forest Cat - all 3 are let outside and she made it clear to the breeder that these would be outside cats.

If I could secure the garden I would - but its terraced and not easily securable. Neither myself or my OH are DIY types therefore the options are severely limited.

I accept the risk - I know I will be devasted if the cat goes missing but I will also know that it was happy in its freedom.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

yeh I suppose the more active breeds need some sort of a run or secure garden to explore..

I do not know of any Ragdoll breeders who would say it's OK to let Ragdolls outside on their own, they are too trusting and not at all streetwise!

My 2 Raggies dont show any interest in going outside, even if they did there would be no way I would let them out, God only knows what would happen to them!


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

My experiences with the female MC I have let outside since last week have been mixed - 

1. I worry about her just like I worried about my sons when they were clubbing! lol

2. She met the next door but one neighbour's curly haired retriever - who barked ferouciously at her - but then she boldly walked into its kitchen!

3. She has just climbed the next door neighbour's fir trees and meowed pitifully for coaxing down. Couldn't work out where she was for ages!

Its like having teenagers again lol


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

ha she sounds mischevious!

Ragdolls do not have any fight preservation so wouldnt be able to defend themselves if something attacked them.. They're just big babies!

Would love to build some sort of outdoor run for them though when I get a house with a garden!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Hey looks like we did the whole indoor / outdoor thing before! An interesting read this thread.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Yea, it keeps cropping up, getting bit like a broken record now to be honest.*


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I strongly recommend that my kittens are kept indoors, or only have access to a safe enclosed area outside. However there is absolutely no way I can enforce this, and even if I put it in my sales agreement, it would not be legally binding, because once you've sold a kitten, it is the property of the new owner and therefore you no longer have control of what happens to it.

If someone lived on a busy road and stated that they would let a cat outside to roam freely, I would not sell to them. However most prospective owners I've encountered who do live in such an area, are very keen to keep the kitten indoors.

QUOTE=lizward;188841]Not at all. Unless of course they live on a busy road. There are plenty of areas that are perfectly safe for cats. If anything, assuming we are talking about a pet owner, I would give preference to someone who was going to let the cat out (subject to the road)

Liz[/QUOTE]


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> If someone lived on a busy road and stated that they would let a cat outside to roam freely, I would not sell to them. However most prospective owners I've encountered who do live in such an area, are very keen to keep the kitten indoors.


Yes, I have found the same thing.

Liz


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Angeli said:


> I definitely wouldn't sell to someone that lets their cat roam outside. Its not that I think that people that do this are irresponsible, but they just need to be educated on the facts that cats are not savvy enough to cope with the dangers of the outside world. You wouldn't let a toddler loose in the same way
> 
> Indoor or outside in a cat safe garden or cat run is what I look for in new owners for my kittens. Living in a quiet country lane makes no difference to me at all as they are just in as much danger as if living in a city.
> 
> ...


I am neutral on outdoor/indoor but I must admit that 'cats are not savvy enough to be let outside' rather floored me. I wonder how long cats have been existant on this world and how long the indoor belief has been adherred to?

I suspect that your average moggie has enough instinct to remain fine in the outdoor world. Please remember that 90% of cats in UK are outdoor cats.


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## WhiteNile (Aug 24, 2008)

Personally, I would never buy a cat from a breeder that said the cat _had_ to be kept indoors; I think it should be the ower's decision, as there's no real "right" or "wrong" answer. When I bought my Mau, the breeder told me that she'd rather her cats be kept indoors, but it was never ordered; I told her right away of my plans to train her to walk on a harness, which she was happy about. In fact, she suggested that if I was taking her out on a harness I should properly introduce her to the garden and street I live on so that if she ever got out of the house unexpectedly she'd know her surroundings (I thought this was a great idea, as cats that are allowed outdoors will be more inclined to dart out of an open door or window in a split-seconds' notice). I wouldn't like to think of a cat of mine never been able to see the outdoor world, but I would always want the kitty to be completely safe (I think in my neighbourhood the problem would be more about theft more than anything else  ); for this reason, cat runs, fenced gardens, or harnessing are perfect.

I have one question for those that keep their kitties indoors 24/7. Isn't the only reason why the cat doesn't show any interest in the outside world, because they don't know any different?  If they were gradually introduced to the outside over a month, I bet they'd be meowing at the back door and looking longingly out the windows waiting to be let out, like any other cats, in no time.  As for a cat being "streetwise," doesn't that just depend on the cat's own character; some cats being more "streetwise" than others, just like some people are more "streetwise" than others?


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Yes, I agree - this is not a black and white issue, there are lots of things to take into account and it's impossible for a breeder to control what happens when a kitten goes to its new home. All we can do is try to educate owners and credit them with a little common sense 



WhiteNile said:


> Personally, I would never buy a cat from a breeder that said the cat _had_ to be kept indoors; I think it should be the ower's decision, as there's no real "right" or "wrong" answer. When I bought my Mau, the breeder told me that she'd rather her cats be kept indoors, but it was never ordered; I told her right away of my plans to train her to walk on a harness, which she was happy about. In fact, she suggested that if I was taking her out on a harness I should properly introduce her to the garden and street I live on so that if she ever got out of the house unexpectedly she'd know her surroundings (I thought this was a great idea, as cats that are allowed outdoors will be more inclined to dart out of an open door or window in a split-seconds' notice). I wouldn't like to think of a cat of mine never been able to see the outdoor world, but I would always want the kitty to be completely safe (I think in my neighbourhood the problem would be more about theft more than anything else  ); for this reason, cat runs, fenced gardens, or harnessing are perfect.
> 
> I have one question for those that keep their kitties indoors 24/7. Isn't the only reason why the cat doesn't show any interest in the outside world, because they don't know any different?  If they were gradually introduced to the outside over a month, I bet they'd be meowing at the back door and looking longingly out the windows waiting to be let out, like any other cats, in no time.  As for a cat being "streetwise," doesn't that just depend on the cat's own character; some cats being more "streetwise" than others, just like some people are more "streetwise" than others?


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## ILOVETABBYS (Sep 22, 2008)

I totally understand why breeders of pedigrees do not want new owners to let the cats outside. In my mothers shop, a woman came in and asked to put a missing cat poster up on the notice board. It was a persian...On the way home my mother drove past it, dead on the side of a very busy road...where the woman lived. She phoned her and told her what she had seen, to check whether it was her cat. The woman went back into the shop the day after and said "it was my own fault, the breeder told me not to let her out, but i thought cats were ok to go out"

My neighbour has 3 moggies, 2 of them are out everyday, but they do only ever go as far as their front garden, unless they follow her to the fields when she takes her dogs for a walk!


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

We advise against letting them out but at the end of the day it's up to the new owner.

There's no way you can check or enforce a ban on going out so you'd just be denying a pet to the honest people who admit it.

Fiona


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Educate owners that cats should not go out?!?!


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## kateyblue (Aug 2, 2008)

Cats are natural roaming animals, to take their freedom to do so is cruel in my opinion.
I would never take on a cat that someone demanded be kept indoors whether i paid 50p or £500 for it
They are pets not children


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

kateyblue said:


> Cats are natural roaming animals, to take their freedom to do so is cruel in my opinion.
> I would never take on a cat that someone demanded be kept indoors whether i paid 50p or £500 for it
> They are pets not children


mmm.. it depends on the breed Katey.. not all cats are natural roamers


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*How is it cruel ? they are just as precious as our Bairns, I would'nt let them out in the street to run in the road and get killed, so why would I let my cats

Can you please mind the language too, Thanks*


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I am happy to announce that I have found my 15 month old boy a safe indoor home with a mature lady with one other Persian. I can not guarantee that he will not get out but she does seem to have the same opinions as me on it


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> I am happy to announce that I have found my 15 month old boy a safe indoor home with a mature lady with one other Persian. I can not guarantee that he will not get out but she does seem to have the same opinions as me on it


that's great news Chrissy


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## kateyblue (Aug 2, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *How is it cruel ? they are just as precious as our Bairns, I would'nt let them out in the street to run in the road and get killed, so why would I let my cats*
> 
> *Can you please mind the language too, Thanks*


Wow can you get over yourself? I used an abbreviation 

Cats and dogs are not children, i love all my cats but i dont put them on the same level as my children in fact i think there is something strange about people that do

Bee maybe they are not all natural roamers, i know they dont tend to roam much if they've been neutered but shouldnt they be allowed the choice?

Having said all this i dont believe in keeping any animal incercerated


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> I am happy to announce that I have found my 15 month old boy a safe indoor home with a mature lady with one other Persian. I can not guarantee that he will not get out but she does seem to have the same opinions as me on it


That's great news - you must be very relieved!


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

bee112 said:


> that's great news Chrissy


Thank you Bee. Might not be posting much on the forum for a while, just a bit disappointed how some posts get away with being very insulting yet others that report insults end up getting the warning  Hope to chat soon lass if I dont get banned for standing up to the bullies.  keep on top of those gorgeous coats


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> Wow can you get over yourself? I used an abbreviation


*I don't need to get over myself thanks! I asked you politely, it's not necessary to use gutter language.*


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

this is yet another post that is going to be closed due to the problems with in the cat threads 

why you have problems over the way the factions keep their cats is beyond me yes we have the debate on the dog forum of kennels or no kennels but it doesnt get quite as bad as this 

we are all adults and at the mo we moderators have our work cut out just trying to keep the 'sad' faction away from the forum without having to referee the petty fighting that goes on 

saynamore please keep posting and if things get out of hand warnings will be handed out and yellow cards issued


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