# Scraggly, old, stray cat



## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

I have recently taken in what appears to be a fairly old, not very healthy, terribly skinny, little stray cat. She was brought into my vets on 1st August, and after two weeks of unsuccessfully trying to find somewhere for her to go, I decided what the heck, she can come home with me  All the local rescues were full, and even if the RSPCA weren't as useless as a chocolate teapot, I honestly think they'd have put her down straight away.

She doesn't walk very well, she is very wobbly on her back legs and stumbles a bit when she's trying to go too fast. Her coat was full of fleas and absolutely thick with flea dirt, her fur is also quite thin & patchy in places and her skin is a bit flaky. She had disgustingly dirty ears and her right ear had a lump in it and lots of puss from an infection. Hardly any teeth. She is very thin, her ribs, hip bones and spine stick out horribly. And finally she also has a fairly large mass of some sort in her abdomen 

To be honest, morbid as it sounds, I don't think she is going to be around very long, but I'm trying to make her as comfortable as I can for the time she has left. She was clearly a beloved pet at some point in her life, as she is extremely affectionate, and loves a bit of fuss. She eats very well, drinks plenty, and despite her mobility issues, manages the litter tray just fine.

So really I just want to know if there is anything else I can do for her? I haven't had a cat since I was a child, so I'm a bit clueless! Is there anything I can give her, other than normal cat food, to fatten her up a bit? And is there is anything I can give her for the flaky skin? I don't know if you can give supplements or something to older cats? 

She doesn't seem interested in doing much, she sleeps under my bed for most of the day, comes out for a little wander, noisily demands food, and then goes back under the bed, but she seems content enough. I don't know how you can tell when a cat is happy, but she certainly purrs loudly enough when I give her attention!

Any advice greatly appreciated, thanks for reading 

Oh, and I've named her Maggie


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## j4nfr4n (Mar 10, 2013)

Sorry can't give you any advice as my love is dogs and haven't had a cat in 20 yrs plus.
Just wanted to say well done you for showing some compassion towards this little cat and giving her the love she richly deserves in her later years.
Well done you


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I wouldn't know what else you could give her either but well done for doing what you have done for her so far.

She seems happy enough, comes out for food and then back to a nice warm bed, no more fleas and somewhere nice warm and dark to go back to after eating.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks for the replies 

No one got any advice though?


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

You could try her on a bit of raw food, if her teeth could manage it, I haven't got any experience of this myself but I'm told it can massively improve things like skin and fur condition. Hopefully someone more clued up will be along shortly!


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## Figaro (Jul 27, 2013)

Aw, well done to you for taking her on.

From experience with old lady cats (mine passed away aged 17 back in June) is...they like to sleep a lot and not really do a lot. She might take a few days to settle into her new surroundings hence the hiding under bed. Our old cat wasnt interested in toys or anything as she got older. Is she quite bony? Be careful and slow picking her up and be prepared for a few vet visits as she gets on and buy a grooming brush as older cats coats get more difficult to groom and are prone to clumping even on short coats and also they like the feel of it.

When the fleas and dirt go she will be feeling so much better. Any pics or description?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Raw food is fantastic for building up muscle mass - try either Natural Instinct or Nutriment - ready ground so will be able to manage it even with few teeth. I would let her eat as much as she wants.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

There is a supplement called Yumega which is especially for dry and flaky skin...a friend of mine said it was very effective. Imagine you'll find it in Amazon. The fact that you are now giving her decent meals will improve her skin and coat enormously. Well done! Do you have a picture of her? It sounds as tho' she is really happy with you.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

spid said:


> Raw food is fantastic for building up muscle mass - try either Natural Instinct or Nutriment - ready ground so will be able to manage it even with few teeth. I would let her eat as much as she wants.


Thanks, I will definitely try her with one of those! And already ground sounds ideal, as I don't know how she'd cope with anything too tough. At the moment she is having wet food in the morning & evening, and I'm leaving dry food down during the day. I know dry isn't the best, but I want her to have at least something to graze on when I'm not there.



Figaro said:


> From experience with old lady cats (mine passed away aged 17 back in June) is...they like to sleep a lot and not really do a lot. She might take a few days to settle into her new surroundings hence the hiding under bed. Our old cat wasnt interested in toys or anything as she got older. Is she quite bony? Be careful and slow picking her up and be prepared for a few vet visits as she gets on and buy a grooming brush as older cats coats get more difficult to groom and are prone to clumping even on short coats and also they like the feel of it.
> 
> When the fleas and dirt go she will be feeling so much better. Any pics or description?


Aw, sorry to hear about your girl, but it is reassuring to know that it's fairly normal, old-lady behaviour  She is pretty bony, yes, poor thing! Probably going to take her back for the vet to recheck her ears at least, after the lump removal. She's also had a bath, as the flea dirt was just too much to brush out, though she doesn't seem to mind being brushed, which is good!



Calvine said:


> There is a supplement called Yumega which is especially for dry and flaky skin...a friend of mine said it was very effective. Imagine you'll find it in Amazon. The fact that you are now giving her decent meals will improve her skin and coat enormously. Well done! Do you have a picture of her? It sounds as tho' she is really happy with you.


Ah, I've heard of Yumega before, might give that a try, thanks!

This is when she was still at the vets:



Scoffing down some food at home, and showing off her spine 


Please excuse the mess under the bed!


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

aw bless her and you too for caring , i bet she has a few stories to tell,...her eyes look lovely and bright,hopefully her condition will come back a bit and she can get some well needed uninterupted sleep without the annoying fleas,you are so lovely to offer this lovely lady a home ,to not have to spend the winter outside has probably saved her life , wish there were more people like you , please keep us posted on her recovery,me maggie too


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## Figaro (Jul 27, 2013)

She is so lovely. Her poor spine reminds me of last cat and the feeling when stroking her.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

moggiemum said:


> aw bless her and you too for caring , i bet she has a few stories to tell,...her eyes look lovely and bright,hopefully her condition will come back a bit and she can get some well needed uninterupted sleep without the annoying fleas,you are so lovely to offer this lovely lady a home ,to not have to spend the winter outside has probably saved her life , wish there were more people like you , please keep us posted on her recovery,me maggie too


Aw, you're going to make me cry! 

It's funny, we've had lots of stray kittens and all sorts abandoned at the vets, but she's the first one that I've really felt like 'I have to take her home'. I suppose it's because she is old and was in such a state. It's easy enough to find new homes for kittens, but an old lady like her... much harder 

Bless her, all she wants is a safe, warm bed and some good food, it's not like she's any trouble  
And Benji-dog is fascinated by her - she's the first cat he's properly met!


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

Ah she looks like my dads cat when he found her - tho with more hair!!

It's so lovely of you to take her in, she will have the love and care she deserves now! She is a lucky cat to have met you.

Once you feed her up with some great high meat food she should get her fur and skin sorted. There are some great foods on zooplus and the happy kitty company you could try. Is she eating ok without some of her teeth? I would feed her little and often building up to bigger meals - If she wasn't used to eating much that is! She will soon get some meat on her bones  keep brushing her and she will get there  

Bless you for taking her in


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you for the pix...I see why you had to have her. She is going to be a pretty little thing after a few weeks of decent food and what a relief she has somewhere safe and warm before the winter sets in!! The thing is, these little old strays ask for so little to change their lives.
If the forum awarded Gold Stars you would get at least one for Maggie!!
Don't forget, we've had the 'before' pix...we shall want the 'after' ones in a couple of weeks.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

magpie said:


> Aw, you're going to make me cry!
> 
> It's funny, we've had lots of stray kittens and all sorts abandoned at the vets, but she's the first one that I've really felt like 'I have to take her home'. I suppose it's because she is old and was in such a state. It's easy enough to find new homes for kittens, but an old lady like her... much harder
> 
> ...


It does make you want to cry...her eyes TBH are very clear and bright and she is looking with such trust at the photographer - you - that you just want her to survive to have a bit of love and care which I imagine has been missing for a long time!!


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

CharlieChaplin said:


> Once you feed her up with some great high meat food she should get her fur and skin sorted. There are some great foods on zooplus and the happy kitty company you could try. Is she eating ok without some of her teeth? I would feed her little and often building up to bigger meals - If she wasn't used to eating much that is! She will soon get some meat on her bones  keep brushing her and she will get there


Thanks for the advice 

Yes, she is eating fine, despite only having a few teeth left! She seems to have no trouble eating dry food, but of course prefers the wet 



Calvine said:


> If the forum awarded Gold Stars you would get at least one for Maggie!!
> Don't forget, we've had the 'before' pix...we shall want the 'after' ones in a couple of weeks.


Lol! You're very kind, and don't worry, I will endeavour to keep you all updated with her progress


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

magpie said:


> Thanks for the advice
> 
> Yes, she is eating fine, despite only having a few teeth left! She seems to have no trouble eating dry food, but of course prefers the wet
> 
> Lol! You're very kind, and don't worry, I will endeavour to keep you all updated with her progress


Glad she prefers the wet - ditch the dry - useless stuff


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

her eyes do look very clear....none of the age spots that i would expect in a truly elderly cat, maybe she is younger than she looks right now.
What does the vet think the mass in her abdomen is? Would you be able to get blood tests done at cost price to check for thyroid etc?
She is very sweet and beautiful, bless you for being so kind and taking her home.
Foodwise I would also stick mainly with wet or raw, offering her frequent meals even if you have to disturb her beauty sleep to do so. Even a few slithers of whatever meat you are going to cook for your self would be a good boost to her calorific intake.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

spid said:


> Glad she prefers the wet - ditch the dry - useless stuff


I know, I know! 

I just like to have something that I can leave down all day, as she scoffs down her wet food really quickly and if I'm at work I can be out of the house for almost 12 hours. And I didn't want her going so long between meals with her being so thin... 

EDIT: Quick question, does she have to have EITHER wet OR raw, or can I give her (for example) mainly wet but with the odd raw meal? Don't want to go upsetting her stomach.


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

magpie said:


> I know, I know!
> 
> I just like to have something that I can leave down all day, as she scoffs down her wet food really quickly and if I'm at work I can be out of the house for almost 12 hours. And I didn't want her going so long between meals with her being so thin...


Thought about an automatic feeder? I haven't used one myself so can't recommended one. But you could get a duel one to open 2 separate times and she gets 2 meals whilst you are out!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

yes you can mix wet and raw, should not cause any problems.
A timed feeder is a great idea.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

magpie said:


> I know, I know!
> 
> I just like to have something that I can leave down all day, as she scoffs down her wet food really quickly and if I'm at work I can be out of the house for almost 12 hours. And I didn't want her going so long between meals with her being so thin...
> 
> EDIT: Quick question, does she have to have EITHER wet OR raw, or can I give her (for example) mainly wet but with the odd raw meal? Don't want to go upsetting her stomach.


You can mix and match raw and wet.


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## denflo (Apr 29, 2011)

Bless her heart, she is lovely! Well done you! 
I'm not going to offer any advice on feeding, but the only thing I would say is make sure she has a nice thick comfy bed to lay in, for cats who are quite boney like her it's easy for them to get sore when laying down if their bed area is not well padded. 
She's so sweet, glad she's going to have some love and warmth to see her through her days.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Paddypaws said:


> her eyes do look very clear....none of the age spots that i would expect in a truly elderly cat, maybe she is younger than she looks right now.
> What does the vet think the mass in her abdomen is? Would you be able to get blood tests done at cost price to check for thyroid etc?


I really have no idea how old she is, though it would be lovely if she turned out to be younger than we thought 

The vet didn't say specifically what the mass might be, though she was quite curious about it and said that she would like to remove it. It is quite a large mass, I had a feel of it myself while she was sedated, so I don't know if surgery would be too risky or if it would be worth doing considering her health at the moment. Also I really do have to consider cost, as I don't think I'm going to be able to insure her now, and while my vet is wonderful I can't really expect her to do what could be a very lengthy operation for free! 

Unfortunately, I don't get to work with my preferred vet very often, but I'm going to take Maggie back in when I'm next working with her and have another chat about it all, including maybe getting some blood tests done


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

CharlieChaplin said:


> Thought about an automatic feeder? I haven't used one myself so can't recommended one. But you could get a duel one to open 2 separate times and she gets 2 meals whilst you are out!


Hadn't even occurred to me! That might be worth looking into though, thanks


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

Keep us updated with photos! It will be great to hear about her.

I wish I had a photo of my dads cat when he first found her. She was skin and bones bald patches not much hair etc. she now looks like this...... Which is what I bet your little gal will look like this soon


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

Good on you! My old cat looked much like that when he was PTS last year at 18.
Very thin and always hungry, but although we had had him his whole life he was always a bit feral and only went to the vet for neutering and once for a sore eye. That time both me and the vet had blood streaming down our arms! Perhaps she has thyroid problems or worms. Good luck with her, so kind of you.


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## Marycat (Jul 29, 2013)

Bless you!! What an amazing thing to do.. To be honest I think you have had some good advice already off other PF members. I can't add much. You have given her a home and love which is the most important thing ever! xx


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

CharlieChaplin said:


> Keep us updated with photos! It will be great to hear about her.
> 
> I wish I had a photo of my dads cat when he first found her. She was skin and bones bald patches not much hair etc. she now looks like this...... Which is what I bet your little gal will look like this soon


Aw, she's gorgeous!! :001_wub:


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

magpie said:


> Aw, she's gorgeous!! :001_wub:


Thanks  he loves her, more so than me 
Maggie will look like her soon and be ruling the roost


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Little update on scraggly Maggie 

She came to work with me again today and unfortunately, after popping her on the scales, it seems that she's losing even more weight, despite my efforts at feeding her up. She's gone from 2.58kg to 2.47kg in about 10 days .

We did a blood test, and it is looking highly likely that she is diabetic. She's going back in on Friday so we can do a glucose curve, and then she will probably be starting on insulin.

We've also been having a bit of a battle with the litter tray! She was using it fine to begin with, however she has started getting in the tray but pointing her bum outside, so the wee goes on the floor. Infuriatingly, as she is mostly living in my bedroom at the moment, this has meant me ending up with a rather disgusting smelling carpet . And even worse, I think it's upset her that I move the litter tray to shampoo the carpet, as she's now started pooing in random places . 

I don't know if there is anything I can do to help the situation, I'm just kinda hoping that she settles down again soon. And I now have puppy pads under the litter trays to soak up any stray wee and protect the carpet!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Diabetes....Good!
far easier to deal with than many other serious illnesses
Please sign up at Diabetic Cat Care where you will find a wealth of information regarding the proper treatment for feline diabetes, and how to achieve the best chance of remission.
If you have some influence with the vet you may be able to get Hypurin Bovine Protamine Zinc rather than Caninsulin. 
Buy yourself a human glucometer and learn how to test the cat at home, no need to wait till Friday to start with that. It need not be hugely expensive to treat a diabetic cat if you are willing to do the research and test the cat at home. 
Stop all dry food now if possible before the cat is started on insulin, it will make it all much easier. Try and feed low carb food.....under 10% and as low as 5% if possible...forget veterinary formulas and go for raw or
Bozita Canned Food 6 x 410g: Great Deals on Bozita Cat Food at zooplus
Do join that forum and you will get all the help you need.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

That is incredibly helpful Paddypaws, thank you 

Will check with the wholesalers tomorrow about which insulin is available, normally we do give caninsulin but if the other one is better then I'll try and get it. My vet is extremely receptive to trying different things, so it shouldn't be a problem


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

magpie said:


> That is incredibly helpful Paddypaws, thank you
> 
> Will check with the wholesalers tomorrow about which insulin is available, normally we do give caninsulin but if the other one is better then I'll try and get it. My vet is extremely receptive to trying different things, so it shouldn't be a problem


You may not get it from a veterinary wholesaler...it is actually a human insulin....it is almost exactly the same as the Insuvet Protamine Zinc which was discontinued a couple of years ago.
Do change her food straight away, it can make a huge difference.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Have they investigated the lump in her tummy yet?


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

magpie said:


> .
> 
> We've also been having a bit of a battle with the litter tray! She was using it fine to begin with, however she has started getting in the tray but pointing her bum outside, so the wee goes on the floor. Infuriatingly, as she is mostly living in my bedroom at the moment, this has meant me ending up with a rather disgusting smelling carpet . And even worse, I think it's upset her that I move the litter tray to shampoo the carpet, as she's now started pooing in random places .
> 
> I don't know if there is anything I can do to help the situation, I'm just kinda hoping that she settles down again soon. And I now have puppy pads under the litter trays to soak up any stray wee and protect the carpet!


Actually like others when I saw the photo she didn't strike me as an older cat at all-just very possibly a younger one with an undiagnosed medical problem, which you appear to have pinned down.

Regarding the litter tray, when one of mine used to do this I placed a smaller tray against the outside edge of the side in question, which caught the urine. I used some of those deeper, plastic food trays that come with prepacked meat, veg etc in the supermarkets. Very stylish but it worked a treat!

Well done for taking her on and best of luck with it all!


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

hi magpie so glad maggie dosent appear to have anything life threatening, as for the wee problem , i bought my boy a cover tray last year best £15 ever spent he loves it, no more smelly wee up the side of the wall and under the tray


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks for the ideas about the litter tray problem, keep 'em coming!

I can kinda cope with the weeing issue, as at least she does go to the litter tray for that (even if she doesn't manage to get it in the litter tray  ). But last night she wandered out of my room and went and pooed in my mums bedroom (for the second time now). She actually had to walk past one of her litter trays in order to do this. This is a major problem as it's not fair on my mum to have to deal with that.

The bedroom doors are generally open as Benji (the dog) likes to alternate where he sleeps (either on my bed, my bedroom floor, my mums bed or the hallway). Shutting the doors would be the obvious solution but would instead create a howling, crying dog.

Maggie already has two litter trays, one covered (which she still manages to wee out of) and another, large, uncovered one.

Ideas?? 



Treaclesmum said:


> Have they investigated the lump in her tummy yet?


She has had x-rays, which only tell you so much really. We're going to treat her diabetes and try to get her health back before doing anything else though.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

They can start to eliminate in odd places when the BG is really high, poor thing is not feeling at all well.


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

Poor little thing, I wonder what has happened to her to end up in that state. She does look so trusting. My cat Slinky was a stray taken into the vets who was diabetic. I did wonder if he had been dumped because of his diabetes. Well done for taking her in, I really hope you can get her well again.

As PP has said, definitely get her off the dry food for the diabetes before you start on the insulin. Even if you don't have an auto feeder yet, you can freeze some wet food and leave it out for her during the day. It will take a few hours to defrost and that should keep her going.

I know PP recommended Bozita which is a great low carb food, but there are also others which are suitable for an FD cat that can be ordered from here

The Happy Kitty Company

Who provide a much better service than Zooplus and orders always arrive next day.

I have a spreadsheet of the various foods and their carb contents so here is a list of the foods that have a low carb content that this company stocks (the number to the right is the carb content):

*MAC's*
Beef with Chicken Hearts	2.5
Duck, Rabbit & Beef	8 (this is a bit higher and one that I don't feed but still OK)
Duck, Turkey & Chicken	0
Veal & Turkey	1.5

*Om Nom Nom* 
Chicken	0.5
Chicken and Veal	0.5

*Ropocat*
Sensitive Gold Chicken	1.4
Sensitive Gold Game	4.5
Sensitive Gold Poultry	2.3
Sensitive Gold Venison	5.4

*GranataPet*
Duck & Chicken	4.5
Lamb & Turkey	3.5
Salmon & Seafood	2.1
Salmon & Turkey	3.5
Veal & Rabbit	2
Fish & Venison Liver Ragout	2.1


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## Polly G (Apr 30, 2013)

Good luck with lovely Maggie - she is so lucky to have found you


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Paddypaws said:


> They can start to eliminate in odd places when the BG is really high, poor thing is not feeling at all well.


So with any luck, things will start to improve if/when she starts feeling a bit better? That's something at least 



Paddypaws said:


> If you have some influence with the vet you may be able to get Hypurin Bovine Protamine Zinc rather than Caninsulin.


Well, you were right about not being able to order it through our wholesaler! Presumably I'd have to get it through a pharmacy? I've googled a little to try and find out how much it costs, and I'm afraid it might be prohibitively expensive for me, unless it's available at a really good price somewhere!? It's more than double the cost price of caninsulin. I hate that it comes down to money but I'm really not that well off, and £35-£45 for a 10ml bottle is a bit  in my opinion 

EDIT: Though on second thought, I suppose it depends on how much of it you need to use? I've no idea about how long a bottle would last or how much you'd need to use day to day...



rox666 said:


> As PP has said, definitely get her off the dry food for the diabetes before you start on the insulin. Even if you don't have an auto feeder yet, you can freeze some wet food and leave it out for her during the day. It will take a few hours to defrost and that should keep her going.


Another fantastically helpful post, thank you so much! And a great idea about freezing the food . Will order some new food tomorrow, so hopefully it will be here Thursday and I can change her over.

Really, thanks so much for your advice & help guys, it's very much appreciated by me and Maggie


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## Catloverbearsden (Aug 20, 2013)

Well done for taking her in, try some online vet supply shops as they may have some conditioning shampoos.


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

Aw, Magpie... Bless you for taking her in. She looks so thin, but with a bit of TLC and regular meals will work wonders. Really looking forward to seeing a couple of snaps of her in a few weeks time


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

magpie said:


> Well, you were right about not being able to order it through our wholesaler! Presumably I'd have to get it through a pharmacy? I've googled a little to try and find out how much it costs, and I'm afraid it might be prohibitively expensive for me, unless it's available at a really good price somewhere!? It's more than double the cost price of caninsulin. I hate that it comes down to money but I'm really not that well off, and £35-£45 for a 10ml bottle is a bit  in my opinion


I use Hypurin and I can definitely recommend it, it is way way better than Caninsulin. With Caninsulin their BG is high, you dose, their BG plummets and then pretty much goes straight back up. With Hypurin you get a slower drop, they then tend to stay in good low numbers for a lot of hours and then rise more slowly (Slinky is now regularly going 18 + hours between doses).

It really doesn't work out any more expensive as the vial can last for months and months (I think some people have them going for over a year). As long as you are careful with it and keep it in a fairly stable place in the fridge it really does last a long time.

I get a prescription from my vet and then order from pharmacy2u.

Buy Hypurin Bovine Pzi Injection 100 units/ml, 10 ml vial | 1 | £34.65 per vial

They are normally the cheapest although their customer service isn't always the best.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Couple more pics of the lady herself... as it's a nice day and I'm off work I took her out to the garden for a bit, where she seemed to enjoy herself having a little wander and sniffing the heck out of everything 


Benji loooves her!




Her coat also seems to be changing colour slightly... when she first arrived at the vets she was kinda orangey/brown in places, particularly round her back legs & tail, but now it seems to be gradually going properly black (like the rest of her).


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

Sweet little girl.... I'm following her story with everything crossed for her x


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

really good points about the insulin made by Rox above.
At least your vet should not charge you for a prescription ( mine is £15! ) I actually bought mine form a local pharmacy with the vet prescription...it was a couple of quid more than pharmacy2u but saved me having to arrange being in for delivery.
It lasts, well, forever....does not need replacing monthly at all.
She really is the sweetest looking little thing. Coat colour change is probably down to better diet, I believe Tyrosine deficiency can cause rusting.

Did you get a chance to sign up at the forum I linked you to? We really can help you manage this with minimal vet expense.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Paddypaws said:


> At least your vet should not charge you for a prescription ( mine is £15! )


Good lord, that's expensive!  We normally charge £5 for a written prescription, but no, fortunately the vet wouldn't charge me for one 



Paddypaws said:


> Did you get a chance to sign up at the forum I linked you to? We really can help you manage this with minimal vet expense.


I have! Just waiting for my account to be approved 
Have also ordered some new, low carb food from The Happy Kitty Company, so hopefully that will not take too long to arrive.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Maybe you could put one of those big bin bags under the tray and in the área she wees out of, that way, you just change them and this doesn´t affect floor or carpet.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Paddypaws said:


> her eyes do look very clear....none of the age spots that i would expect in a truly elderly cat, maybe she is younger than she looks right now.
> What does the vet think the mass in her abdomen is? *Would you be able to get blood tests done at cost price to check for thyroid etc?*
> She is very sweet and beautiful, bless you for being so kind and taking her home.
> Foodwise I would also stick mainly with wet or raw, offering her frequent meals even if you have to disturb her beauty sleep to do so. Even a few slithers of whatever meat you are going to cook for your self would be a good boost to her calorific intake.


I wondered about that. An overactive thyroid would cause weight loss very quickly, and can also affect the liver function which could account for the mass in her abdomen. If it is thyroid, then she has a good chance of recovery if she receives appropriate medication.

She's lovely - and so lucky to have found you.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

wow just looking at the pics and she is looking so much better than before, so lucky to have found you i hope she continues to improve and you have many years together


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Hello Maggie, you look a sweetheart and I think.you found a guardian angel xxx


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

I don't think the vet mentioned anything about her thyroid, I have the blood test results here somewhere and I'm pretty sure it said thyroid function is normal 

Maggie is currently stuffing her face again with Bozita chunks in gravy... I hope she ends up liking the low carb stuff as much as she likes this


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

magpie said:


> Maggie is currently stuffing her face again with Bozita chunks in gravy... I hope she ends up liking the low carb stuff as much as she likes this


It is great that she has a good appetite.
have you stopped all the dry food now Magpie?


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

I am glad to see some updated photos of her. She looks so happy 

I don't have any practical advice to offer I'm afraid as I know nothing about feline diabetes. But your doing such a great job! 

When your cleaning up her little accidents, ensure the whole smell is out otherwise this can initiate them going in that spot again


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Paddypaws said:


> It is great that she has a good appetite.
> have you stopped all the dry food now Magpie?


Yes, at least I don't have to try and encourage her to eat!  And yep, the dry food has been taken away  She has the Bozita and I also have a few tins of Smilla in the cupboard, just until the low carb food arrives.



CharlieChaplin said:


> When your cleaning up her little accidents, ensure the whole smell is out otherwise this can initiate them going in that spot again


Ha, tell me about it!


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Oh, one more question! Are there any kind of treats that are ok for diabetic cats? I have some Dreamies here for her, but I'm thinking that these might be no good for her??


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

Lovely photos Maggie, keep 'em coming! I'm a sucker for any thread with a title like 'scraggly old stray cat' and am rooting for a happy ending.


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

magpie said:


> Oh, one more question! Are there any kind of treats that are ok for diabetic cats? I have some Dreamies here for her, but I'm thinking that these might be no good for her??


I've never seen Dreamies but I suspect that they are really bad for FD cats. Thrive treats or Zooplus Cosma Snackies are pretty much the only ones that are OK (I think). Mine definitely prefer the Thrive treats, but I think that's because they know they cost more!

Love the photos of her, she looks so much better in just a few days.

ETA - I'm looking forward to hearing how she goes on with the low carb food, you never know, just an improvement in her diet alone might be enough to deal with her diabetes. Have you managed to do any home testing yet?


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

rox666 said:


> ETA - I'm looking forward to hearing how she goes on with the low carb food, you never know, just an improvement in her diet alone might be enough to deal with her diabetes. Have you managed to do any home testing yet?


Not yet, just waiting for my meter to arrive in the post 

Unfortunately, I've just missed my food delivery, as they came while I was out walking the dog  Will have to wait til they redeliver tomorrow now, to start her on the new food.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Bozita is carb free (as in no grains) as is AC. I'd keep feeding them.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

spid said:


> Bozita is carb free (as in no grains) as is AC. I'd keep feeding them.


They might not contain grains, but they are certainly not carb free.
Bozita tins are around 5%, but the cartons in gravy which magpie has been using are well over 10%. Even Animonda calculates at 8-10%, if I recall, due to the pretty high offal content.
Better by far than most supermarket foods, but still a bit too high for the approach we use on DCC. Some diabetic cats will be fine with the slightly higher carb content, others will react quite strongly.
Magpie....can you leave a note so the post man leaves the parcel in your porch or with a neighbour if you are out? I really want you to get the kit today.
You also have some Smilla tins I think? They might be lower carb than the Bozita so worth feeding them today.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Hmm, not what it said in the nutritional analysis I was reading, but I bow to the greater experience.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Paddypaws said:


> Magpie....can you leave a note so the post man leaves the parcel in your porch or with a neighbour if you are out? I really want you to get the kit today.
> You also have some Smilla tins I think? They might be lower carb than the Bozita so worth feeding them today.


Coincidentally, I did actually open a tin of Smilla for Maggie this morning!

And I'll be in for the rest of the day today, so I won't miss the delivery of the kit at least. My postman is fab though anyway, he's hidden parcels in our recycling bin before and posted a note through the letter box to let us know where they are


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

The kit has arrived!! I've had a little play with it and managed to do a test (Maggie was a bit bemused but sooo well behaved!) and her BG was 22.0.

Once again, thank you so much Paddypaws for sending it to me, along with enough syringes to keep us going for a while! It's been a bit of an expensive time lately, and this has really, really helped


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Aren't you clever getting a test in straight away?
Time to start a test log over on DCC and we can get this show on the road.
The testing is SO important, it will enable you to give very specific doses of insulin just as Maggie needs them.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

spid said:


> not what it said in the nutritional analysis I was reading, .


Spid....can you provide a link to the info you were looking at? I am sure you can understand that this topic is something we spend quite a lot of time on whilst on the Diabetic forums  (fora?? ) and I would like to check whatever info is available.

This is the current info we have displayed on DCC
_First, use the Nutritional Analysis figures whenever possible, as these are true numbers for each flavor, while the Guaranteed Analysis numbers are averages. Unfortunately, manufacturers seldom print nutritional analysis numbers on the food labels, using instead the guaranteed analysis numbers. Their websites will sometimes provide nutritional analysis information.

Looking at the Guaranteed Analysis (GA) on the label, add up the values for protein, moisture, fat, fiber, and ash (if listed - sometimes it is not). Then subtract those values from 100 - the difference is the wet matter carbs. So, if we have a food with 78% moisture, 11% protein, 5% fat, 2% fiber and 1.5% Ash, the calculation would look like this:

78.00 + 11.00 + 5.00 + 2.00 + 1.50 = 97.50 Subtract that from 100, and the remainder, 2.50, is the WET matter carbs.

However, when comparing the carbohydrate content of any food, it must be done on a dry matter basis, even with dry food, as dry does contain a small amount of moisture. Looking at the Guaranteed Analysis on the label once again, subtract the moisture content from 100 - in this case, the difference is 22. Then divide your wet matter carbs by the number you get.

2.50 divided by 22. = 11% carbs on a dry matter basis.

This is an easy formula, and once you've done it a few times, you will be able to look at the guaranteed analysis and pretty much know what the carb content is based on the values given on the label. * Remember, though, ingredients are just as important as the carb content - you want food with no grains (including rice or soy) no veggies, fruits, glutens, or cornstarch, and no gravy. Broth is fine, as long as it is not thickened* with starches.
_
personally I take any 'carb calculations' with a large pinch of salt as we all know how hard it is to trust the food giants to be transparent in their recipes. Many products seem to calculate at zero or even a minus figure. I am always interested in ingredients rather than just the calculation itself.
Of course, for the average healthy cat these calculations really are hair splitting...but in the early stages of trying to get a diabetic cat 'stable' they are of utmost importance.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Oh, it was only the analysis that zooplus gave hence the very quick back down - I hadn't read the whole thread and certainly don't want to be getting into the ins and outs of it all. I don't profess to be an expert, please feel free to give me a stiff ignoring.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

spid said:


> Oh, it was only the analysis that zooplus gave hence the very quick back down - I hadn't read the whole thread and certainly don't want to be getting into the ins and outs of it all. I don't profess to be an expert, please feel free to give me a stiff ignoring.


Oh no! I don't want to ignore your comments at all, just make sure that I am up to date/speed on all the info that is available.


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

Yep all Animonda Carny is too high in carbs  (based on DCC criteria) except for the "Exotic" which is below 5%. I don't have the exact numbers to hand but I have fed it before so it must have worked out as OK!

I thought that the Bozita tetra paks weren't quite as bad as they used to be, but still not good either way.

So impressed that you managed to get a test in so quickly, for some people (me included) it takes ages the first time round.


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

Did you food come?

How is Maggie today? She has quite a following


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Maggie is doing well 

The food has arrived and she seems to like it very much, she has also had her first dose of insulin today


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

Glad she isn't fussy. 

Did you get some from happy kitty company? Did it come with the toy? Hope Maggie likes the toy too


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Yes, The Happy Kitty Company are great, really quick delivery  Maggie not interested in the toy though


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

magpie said:


> Maggie is doing well
> 
> The food has arrived and she seems to like it very much, she has also had her first dose of insulin today


that is great....and the readings you have from the meter will show you why the standard vet schedule of +12 shots just does not work.


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

magpie said:


> Yes, The Happy Kitty Company are great, really quick delivery  Maggie not interested in the toy though


O Maggie  - haha bless her little heart


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## Elizabeth and Bertie (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi,

I'm rather late to this thread but really want to say bless you for taking this little darling into your heart and your home. 

Diabetes is very treatable. And quite a number of cats will go into remission (become diet-controlled diabetics) after a short time on insulin and a switch to an appropriate diet (low carb wet). And even those cats that don't go into remission can still have a fantastic quality of life. My Bert has been diabetic for six and a half years now and nobody looking at him would guess that he had any health issues at all.

Re low carb foods; here is a link to a list of some more foods that have less than 10% calories from carbs (with apologies for any duplication).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq4WIfRfL3G1dDd2dkNtMnNoMDZYaDVxTGtSd1dmWmc#gid=0

Re insulin; if you do manage to get Hypurin bovine PZI it will be super important that you test the kitty's blood glucose at home because Hypurin PZI can last up to twice as long in the cat's system as Caninsulin (but varies from cat to cat because every cat is different).

This kitty is SO lucky to have found you. 

Best wishes,

Eliz


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Thought Maggie's fans would like to know... she was weighed on Monday and has not only stopped losing weight, but has put a little on 

Her litter tray etiquette has also improved! She has stopped pooing in random places and is now going in the tray, and her wees are getting in the tray more often too. Yay!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

She is a little fighter and is very lucky to be in such caring hands.


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## Catloverbearsden (Aug 20, 2013)

Glad to hear that Maggie has put on some weight.


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## Polly G (Apr 30, 2013)

Well done Maggie - keep up the good work


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

Go maggie!!!

What a star she is! Remember photo updates are a necessity too 

Do you think it was the diabetes which led to her accidents then?


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

Another member of the fan-club here... Delighted to hear all is going well and looking forward to the next photo-update!!!!


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

CharlieChaplin said:


> Do you think it was the diabetes which led to her accidents then?


Don't know really, I think it may have been a combination of her not feeling well and perhaps getting a bit stressed after I moved the litter trays around to shampoo the carpet. She seems much more settled now though 

Weighed again today and has put more weight on! She was 2.48kg at her lowest (just before her diagnosis) and is now 2.8kg


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

that is great news Magpie....sending 'fat vibes' from my gang of beefy lumps, diabetic cat included.


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## witchyone (Dec 16, 2011)

Only just caught up with this thread. Maggie looks gorgeous and well done you for taking her in, the world needs more people like you. Glad to hear she is starting to improve. Keep us posted.


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## Lulus mum (Feb 14, 2011)

Have followed Maggies story and just want to say a big thank you on her behalf for giving her a chance to be loved.She is beautiful and she has made so much progress since you brought her home.

We lost 2 of our cats in the last 2 yrs ,both aged 16,plus our 2 dogs also 16 .They had all grown up together from the age of 3 mths.

Maggies story has really cheered me up when I was feeling a bit sad today.

She certainly has a fan club and I am so proud of P.F members who always offer support and advice .

Maureen


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## congenialhen (Sep 15, 2013)

What an amazing story! Well done for taking her on and giving up your time and cash to get her sorted.
would love to see more photos of her now she's back on the road to recovery.

x


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Maggie is doing fantastically well on her insulin, her blood glucose is staying in normal numbers for much longer, and currently she hasn't needed a dose for almost two full days, which is amazing!

She also seems more settled and has started to be a bit more adventurous, exploring the house a little, stealing the dogs bed and sleeping on my bed with me sometimes too


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

She is gorgeous, well done you for taking so much care of her


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

She is absolutely lovely. Great work Maggie's angel.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

What a precious girl! :001_wub::001_wub:


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Apologies as rather late joining this thread but really wanted to say a huge well done, what a good Samaritan you are bless you 
Maggie is a gorgeous old girl, I hope she continues to thrive in your care. I had a diabetic cat and it was hard work to get things right for him but very rewarding too. I'm sure Maggie is extremely grateful to you 
Em


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

AHHH way to go Maggie!!! Looking gorgeous!!

Magpie - this is such an amazing thing you have done for this cat that properly didn't have a bright future if it wasn't for you. So thank you. She is looking tremendous and sounds like she is getting back on her paws. Thank you for the updates - keep them coming


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

She is a little superstar, I am so proud of how well she's doing!


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Oh I do love these special threads on PF.

Fantastic work, Maggie looks incredible now so different!! :001_tt1:


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## gentoo1980 (Aug 6, 2013)

I haven't posted in this thread yet but I've been following it. I'm glad she's now starting to settle in. She seems such a lovely cat and so lucky to have found you.

I've recently bought some baby scales for my cats as I buy my fleas and wormers on line and also I have an over wieght cat who's going on a raw food diet so would like to keep an eye on her weight. Wish I'd known about baby scales years ago. Every now and then I have to buy my womrers from the vets to get the correct weight, it's a pain as I've no car.

I don't expet you to go out and buy some as you've already spent so much money her vetinary treament but maybe in the future they might come in useful as she's diabetic.

You do work at the vets though so probably it's not much hassle getting her weighed there.


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

Well done, she's still looking a bit 'string bean' bless her, but what a sweet face and what a lovely alert expression :001_wub: What a huge difference you have made in such a short time.

The world is a better place for people like you Magpie. Thank you 

Already looking forward to the next photo update 

xx


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Lol, yes she is still pretty scrawny! She has put weight on since she's been here, and I can tell that she doesn't feel as thin, but she still has a ways to go yet 

It would be lovely to have some baby scales here to weigh her on, gentoo, but you're right in that it's a bit too much to fork out at the moment! The test strips for her glucometer are not cheap, and then there's the low-carb food, the diabetic-friendly treats, litter trays, bed, supplements to help with her wobbly legs.... it's been an expensive couple of months!! 

But yes, I can take her to work to weigh her atm, so it's not so bad


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## Esemais (Sep 8, 2013)

She looks so much better, lovely to see. You're taking great care of her.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Maggie has been off the insulin for two whole weeks, as of today!! 

So proud of my little trooper, she is looking a tiny bit healthier evey day :001_wub:


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

:thumbup1: Lovely to hear, well done Maggie :biggrin5:
Em


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## gentoo1980 (Aug 6, 2013)

That's great news. Hope she keeps improving.

She's so lucky it was you who finally took her one, maybe if it was someone else she might not be quite there yet. Seems you've done everything best you can to deal with her condition.


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## Polly G (Apr 30, 2013)

Hi Magpie - as I also have an elderly diabetic cat, I wondered what you are feeding Maggie on? Jasper has IBD (the sort that makes him vomit) so I have to be careful about his food. Maggie is obviously delicate too. We are finding it impossible to stabilise him after 7 months and the vets say they have never had a case like him before so it would be useful to know what your feeding routine is.

Thanks
Polly


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi Polly 

Maggie is fed exclusively on low-carb wet food, and the brand that she has is MAC's, which I get online from The Happy Kitty Company.

The absolute best thing I ever did for Maggie though was joining the forum that Paddypaws recommended, over on this website: Diabetic Cat Care. They follow a different protocol for dealing with diabetes than most vets, and it works wonders  It's definitely worth joining & speaking to the members there, as they are very knowledgeable.


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## Elizabeth and Bertie (Oct 5, 2012)

Polly G said:


> Hi Magpie - as I also have an elderly diabetic cat, I wondered what you are feeding Maggie on? Jasper has IBD (the sort that makes him vomit) so I have to be careful about his food. Maggie is obviously delicate too. We are finding it impossible to stabilise him after 7 months and the vets say they have never had a case like him before so it would be useful to know what your feeding routine is.
> 
> Thanks
> Polly


Hiya Polly,

What are you feeding Jasper at the moment? Re the diabetes here is a link to the FDMB list of lower carb foods that are suitable for diabetics (ie, all less than 10% calories from carbs).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq4WIfRfL3G1dDd2dkNtMnNoMDZYaDVxTGtSd1dmWmc#gid=0
But if you are currently feeding a higher carb food then I'd suggest that you only switch to a lower carb food if you are able to test Jasper's blood glucose at home. That is because the switch to lower carb food could reduce his blood glucose levels, and an insulin dose that works OK with a higher carb diet could be too much on a lower carb diet. (And too much insulin can cause hypoglycemia.)

I don't have an IBD cat, but I've heard that others with IBD cats often try 'novel proteins', single proteins (to work out what a cat is sensitive to), and also raw food diets. You could try posting on the Feline Diabetes Message Board for advice about this...? FDMB - The Feline Diabetes Message Board • View forum - FELINE HEALTH: The Main FDMB Forum 
FDMB has a large membership and a lot of folks experienced in all kinds of issues that affect diabetic cats (and non-diabetics too!).

There is also a feline IBD Yahoo group that may be able to help (but I couldn't find the link for you, sorry...)

Here's hoping you find something that works for Jasper!

Best wishes,

Eliz


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

I've tagged this thread, so I always know when there are updates 

Glad her march healthwards is continuing and yay to her being off the insulin!

Of course, you know what I'm going to ask next, don't you... pictures? Please?? Pretty please???

xx


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Bless her and bless you for your kindness and compassion. If only more people were like you, this world would be 200% a better place. May you be rewarded with years of love and fluffy companionship with this special angel that came into your life.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Alisonfoy said:


> Of course, you know what I'm going to ask next, don't you... pictures? Please?? Pretty please???
> 
> xx


Well, seeing as you asked so nicely!! I'll try to get some better pics tomorrow, as I'm off work this weekend, but hopefully this will do for now...


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

I have only just come across this thread and have read through the lot in one fell swoop. The difference in this lovely cat from the first to the most recent photos is amazing. 

It just goes to show what a difference a person who is willing to put in some effort can make to an animals life.

I love your dog too, he's fab


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

She is looking amazing now, a real credit to you magpie.:thumbup:


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Lulus mum said:


> Have followed Maggies story and just want to say a big thank you on her behalf for giving her a chance to be loved.She is beautiful and she has made so much progress since you brought her home.
> 
> *We lost 2 of our cats in the last 2 yrs ,both aged 16,plus our 2 dogs also 16 .They had all grown up together from the age of 3 mths.*
> 
> ...


This is so sad - it must have hit you really hard. I lost two dogs within a month of each other, and I'm sure that the loss of the first one precipitated the decline of the second - they had always been together and loved each other so much.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

magpie said:


> Maggie is doing fantastically well on her insulin, her blood glucose is staying in normal numbers for much longer, and currently she hasn't needed a dose for almost two full days, which is amazing!
> 
> She also seems more settled and has started to be a bit more adventurous, exploring the house a little, stealing the dogs bed and sleeping on my bed with me sometimes too


Looking SO much better.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm afraid this is the best I could do for a photo update, Maggie seems to be very difficult to photograph!! 





Tigermoon said:


> I love your dog too, he's fab


Thanks! Benji has been amazing with her really, considering he's never really met a cat before! He's very gentle and endlessly enthusiastic about trying to be Maggie's friend


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## CharlieChaplin (Dec 30, 2012)

She is looking gorgeous and very settled - I just love reading these updates on her!


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