# Sad day for badgers brings shame on our country



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Labours motion opposing the badger cull was defeated by a majority of 49 in favour of the cruel & unscientific cull. That was only achieved by intense 3 line whipping! not the free vote it was suppose to be. Sad day for democracy aswell as badgers. Beware if you care about wildlife the govt has other protected species in its sight!

Heres the debate...if anyone is interested lol... you can see which way your MPs voted at the bottom. Very proud of both my MP & my Dads MP.

Read - UK Parliament


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Bovine TB vaccination no magic bullet say MPs - News from Parliament - UK Parliament


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rona said:


> Bovine TB vaccination no magic bullet say MPs - News from Parliament - UK Parliament


Damian Carrington blasts this shameless propaganda out of the water.

*TB vaccination is no 'magic bullet' but badger culling is a waste of bullets*

A report from MPs sets out the challenges of using vaccination to control TB in cattle: the real solution may lie in stricter cattle movement controls

To tackle the rising scourge of tuberculosis in cattle there are three possible measures: culling badgers, vaccination and controlling cattle movements. A new report from MPs on Wednesday, rushed out ahead of vote in the Commons, concludes that vaccination is "no magic bullet".

I completely agree. But the fact that vaccination is hard does not mean badger culling is an easy way to control TB in cattle. In fact, as I have covered many times, the scientists who know most about culling are adamant that shooting badgers is, in Lord Krebs's words, a "mindless" way to tackle bovine TB.

Vaccination is a very promising option, as it is the route to eradication and does not provoke fierce opposition. The report from the MPs on the environment, food and rural affairs select committee, sets out clearly the challenges. It does not consider the relative merits of vaccination and badger culling.

Anne McIntosh MP, the committee chair, said: "The government is right to invest millions of pounds in developing vaccines against bovine TB. We should use every tool to combat this disease, but vaccination alone will not, at least in the short-term, provide a complete solution."

She was cutting about the role of ministers in the debate: "While progress to develop vaccines is clearly being made, debate on this subject has been characterised by lack of clarity leading to poor public understanding. The government must share a great deal of the blame for this."

The report noted that "successive governments have invested more than £43 million on vaccine research and development since 1994. By the end of the current spending review period, Defra will have spent a further £15 million."

McIntosh summarised the challenges of vaccination: "Vaccines have no impact on already infected animals, offer a range of protection to those that aren't infected, and will be expensive to deploy."

Let's take those in turn. First, vaccines do indeed fail to treat infected animals, but Prof Rosie Woodroffe, the UK's leading badger expert, told me: "Vaccination is often dismissed as a management option because it has no direct effect on badgers which are already infected. This is often contrasted unfavourably with culling, which removes infected badgers and is therefore assumed to act more quickly. However, such an unfavourable comparison is based upon two misinterpretations of the available evidence. First, culling does not prompt a rapid reduction in the numbers of infected badgers. Second, although infected badgers are not removed by vaccination, 20-30% of them die each year, and more if they are excreting TB. This natural mortality, combined with the spread of immunity among uninfected badgers, means that vaccination is likely to reduce the proportion of infected badgers if repeated over several years."

Second, vaccines don't offer 100% protection. That means vaccination has to be repeated for several years - just like culling has to be repeated for at least four years to avoid making TB worse.

Third: vaccination will be expensive to deploy. As I reported on Monday, this is only true if you ignore the policing and other costs incurred by badger culling. If you include them, badger vaccination is cheaper.

The report considers each vaccination option in turn. On vaccinating cattle, McIntosh chastises ministers for accepting without question an indicative 10-year timetable from the European Commission to introduce a suitable cattle vaccine and a test to distinguish vaccinated and infected cows: "The indicative timetable set down by the EC is precisely that: indicative! The government must do all it can to speed up progress without compromising collection of the robust field data needed."

On injectable badger vaccines, McIntosh said: "There are many unknowns to overcome if it is to be viable." There would have bee fewer unknowns if the coalition government had not cancelled five of the six badger vaccine deployment trials. This, for me, is a key point: badger culling is likely to be - at best - an expensive and time-consuming distraction from getting on with making vaccination work.

The report makes another vital observation: "the UK currently relies on a skin test that could miss one in four infected cows." McIntosh said: "It is frustrating to hear government officials acknowledge that the current testing regime misses infectious cattle when the gamma interferon test, a blood test of greater sensitivity, catches the disease earlier. Despite the cost, the government must explore whether we can use this test more widely to bear down on the disease."

This is a crucial point because the poor accuracy of the test undermines attempts to stop TB spreading as cattle are moved around the UK. Farmers and ministers insist that controls on cattle movements are as strict as they can be. But John Bourne, who led the £50m-trial of badger culling, rejects this.

"The [controls] in operation at the moment are totally ineffective," he told me, because the tuberculin test used is not very accurate, meaning herds can test negative while actually harbouring the disease. "It's an absolute nonsense that farmers can move cattle will nilly after only two tests."

"Why won't politicians implement proper cattle movement controls? Because they dont want to upset farmers," he said.

Here are some - I think - telling facts to leave you with. In 1960, around 25,000 TB-positive cattle were slaughtered, after about 11 million tests were performed. Within five years, fewer than 5,000 TB cattle were being killed annually. In 2011, about 34,000 TB cattle were killed, but fewer than 8 million tests were performed. Is the government really doing all it can on cattle controls?


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

In all honesty I agree with the badger cull, it's not a long term solution but a short term one that would give them time to develop a suitable vaccine and cut the infection risks for cows in the meantime. i know a lot of dairy and beef farmers and in all honesty they work damn hard to keep there farms going and even a small portion of there cows getting bTB can be devastating to them they work every day of the year caring for there livestock and the figures showing the rise in bovine tb cases are very worrying, I think it is at the point now where something needs to be done, the vaccine for badgers doesn't guarantee that they wont get tb and there isn't one for cows. a lot of these farmers have had there farms in there families for generations yet more and more are having to give up there lively hood due to diseases like bovine tb and the little money they get for what they do. would you rather have meat and dairy products come in from other countries where there is no guarantee what it contains or help our British farmers? its horrible to think of having to cull a lot of animals but we are becoming over run with badgers there population over the last ten years has sky rocketed and that isn't helping us or them, they are becoming over crowded resulting in more diseases being spread faster. we have good laws on cattle movement in England because of the constant threat of foot and mouth and bovine tb a lot stricter than a lot of other countries. I don't want to debate im just stating my opinion.

What I don't agree with is protesters letting themselves on farmers land, wearing balaclavas and hoods (if what someone thinks what they are doing is right and not illegal they should show there faces not hide) and trying cause trouble, worrying livestock and making the farmers job harder, threatening phone calls to farmers etc. are all disgusting things for people to do. im hoping its a small minority of badger cull protesters that are doing this because if the majority are they really aren't helping their cause by acting like thugs.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Apollo2012 said:


> In all honesty I agree with the badger cull, it's not a long term solution but a short term one that would give them time to develop a suitable vaccine and cut the infection risks for cows in the meantime. i know a lot of dairy and beef farmers and in all honesty they work damn hard to keep there farms going and even a small portion of there cows getting bTB can be devastating to them they work every day of the year caring for there livestock and the figures showing the rise in bovine tb cases are very worrying, I think it is at the point now where something needs to be done, the vaccine for badgers doesn't guarantee that they wont get tb and there isn't one for cows. a lot of these farmers have had there farms in there families for generations yet more and more are having to give up there lively hood due to diseases like bovine tb and the little money they get for what they do. would you rather have meat and dairy products come in from other countries where there is no guarantee what it contains or help our British farmers? its horrible to think of having to cull a lot of animals but we are becoming over run with badgers there population over the last ten years has sky rocketed and that isn't helping us or them, they are becoming over crowded resulting in more diseases being spread faster. we have good laws on cattle movement in England because of the constant threat of foot and mouth and bovine tb a lot stricter than a lot of other countries. I don't want to debate im just stating my opinion.
> 
> What I don't agree with is protesters letting themselves on farmers land, wearing balaclavas and hoods (if what someone thinks what they are doing is right and not illegal they should show there faces not hide) and trying cause trouble, worrying livestock and making the farmers job harder, threatening phone calls to farmers etc. are all disgusting things for people to do. im hoping its a small minority of badger cull protesters that are doing this because if the majority are they really aren't helping their cause by acting like thugs.
> Like


Culling isn't any sort of a solution because it wont work Apollo. The scientific evidence has proved conclusively that culling badger can 'make NO meaningful contribution to the control of bTB in cattle'. So even if you killed every badger in Britain & you would still be left with 84-88% of the disease. There is an injectable vaccine for badgers..the efficacy of which is far higher for them then the human BCG vaccine is for us, the oral vaccine for badger will be available for use in the field within the next 5 years. Yet that deranged psychopath Paterson has said he wants badger intensively slaughtered for the next 25yrs!!

Farmers lose far far more animals to mastitis,lameness etc then they do to TB. All of which are caused by poor farming practices. I dont eat meat or dairy...I dont want support anyone who has so little regard for not only our wildlife but their own animals.

Badger numbers are still recovering from years of persecution....like many species they will achieve a natural balance all on their own. Most of the badgers about to be killed in the tb hotspots are perfectly healthy.

We have dreadful laws on cattle movements in England. Cattle movement was actually relaxed AFTER the foot & mouth outbreak... you will find that is when bTB sky rocketed! bTB isn't badgers fault its the farmers...

There are hundreds of sabs out in the cull zones every night! They are not behaving like thugs they are there to save the badgers.. by making a lot of noise so the badger steer clear of the gunmen. Animal lovers, horrified that badgers are about to be massacred for purely political reasons, are so grateful to the sabs...donations to them are coming in thick & fast. Just last night one sab group raised £600 in a couple of hours. :thumbsup:


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

It's a bloody disgrace and so sad for badgers.

I don't think for one minute culling badgers is going to work.

What are the government going to do after culling badgers and the problem still persists!

I wish there was something I could do to stop it, I really do.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm 23 years old and live in the countryside, I was raised in the countryside.

Yet I've *never *seen a badger!

I can't help but feel that killing more of this already rarely seen creature is just a big loss.


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## Danielmorgan (May 31, 2013)

this is what called an act of cowardice people are targeting such a peacefully living creatures which have no harms to us.. what a shame really.


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