# Would you ban smoking if you had the power?



## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I once started a thread like this on Sodahead and had quite a few opinions so would love to hear what your view would be if you had the power to ban smoking. 

I would put a poll but I don't know how to. 

So, if you would, why? If not, also why?

Look forward to reading your views.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Ban it , from where ? or do you mean ban it full stop ?


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

tincan said:


> Ban it , from where ? or do you mean ban it full stop ?


Sorry, should have been more specific. As in ban completely if you could.  Hypothetically speaking.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

No, because it's a personal choice and I have no right to inflict my views on others and banning it would simply make it more attractive for some and people would carry on anyway. It would simply go underground, as it were.

I would query the funding for smoking related illnesses, but then you'd have to also look at other lifestyle choices eg being overweight (yes, not always a lifestyle choice but the majority of overweight people *could* do something about it) or someone who practises a dangerous sport like riding  Should they be funded when it all goes wrong?!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

No, people need to take responsibility for themselves. Where does it end, ban alcohol, ban fattening food, ban high heels the list goes on

Constant state intervention is not good for the sole


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Soul?!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> Soul?!


Lol that too  I have had a stressful weeked so a frazzled brain !


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

I thinking banning it would be a bit to far. Id ban it from my house, or ask people not to do it around me, but i couldnt put a complete ban on the whole country


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

MrRustyRead said:


> I thinking banning it would be a bit to far. Id ban it from my house, or ask people not to do it around me, but i couldnt put a complete ban on the whole country


I think that is fair and people should always respect that. As I always say - What you do in your own home is your business but always respect others within their home.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

No. People are going to die anyway. Let them do it in their own way. 
Anyway - many drugs are banned now - and that doesn`t stop anyone does it? 
I speak as a non-smoking teetotaller btw.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I think I possibly would  It's not so much the smoking that I have the issue with but it's the littering and nastiness that goes with it, I find nothing worse than walking past a pub or covered bus stop or smoking shelter near hospitals or just the high street etc oh and even the beach  and just seeing stubbed out *** ends everywhere.


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

Why not? They've banned Milk of Magnesia.Have you tried to buy any lately?
My brother now buys it from America.Long live the EEC.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I would ban it in all public places!!

I hate walking down the street and having to hold my breath as I pass through a cloud of smoke ffrom all the smokers congregating outisde pubs / shops/ office buildings etc. It is disgusting.

And, as MM said, you then have the litter butts all over the ground. TOO gross fro words that is!!

At least if I am fat, no one else is affected by it. If I am drunk, no-one else smells of it.

Smokers send their nasty fumes out into the atmosphere and innocent people get the rough end of their nasty habit!!!

They can do it in their own homes though. That is their space to with as they wish.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

Blackcats said:


> I think that is fair and people should always respect that. As I always say - What you do in your own home is your business but always respect others within their home.


If i was at someones house i understand its their house but id still like to be given the option of leaving the room while they smoke.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Don't know mogs, I would rather pick my way through dog ends than lairy drunks (or worse their vomit :scared


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I would query the funding for smoking related illnesses


You've hit right on the very reason it isn't banned. The revenue raised is far more than the expenditure on treating smoking related disease.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If i was at someones house i understand its their house but id still like to be given the option of leaving the room while they smoke.


I've never held anyone prisoner in my house. Why would you not have the option of leaving?

Should add I'm not a smoker, just interested


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Don't know mogs, I would rather pick my way through dog ends than lairy drunks (or worse their vomit :scared


I don't usually pass the pubs at that time of night. Signs here of your own debauched lifestyle methinks........ :sneaky2:

:lol: :lol:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*No i wouldn't ban it, this was supposed to be a free country.
As for all the *** butts outside pubs and shops, they have got worse since the ban came in.*


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Blackcats said:


> I once started a thread like this on Sodahead and had quite a few opinions so would love to hear what your view would be if you had the power to ban smoking.
> 
> I would put a poll but I don't know how to.
> 
> ...


No. Anything that is illegal ends up being sold illegally for a lot more money. I am more likely to ban alcohol, which is just as dangerous and not frowned upon like tobacco. I would certainly ban a lot of other things before I would ban smoking.



MontyMaude said:


> I think I possibly would  It's not so much the smoking that I have the issue with but it's the littering and nastiness that goes with it, I find nothing worse than walking past a pub or covered bus stop or smoking shelter near hospitals or just the high street etc oh and even the beach  and just seeing stubbed out *** ends everywhere.


But you have the option not to walk there, don't you? If smoking were banned, the smokers would not have the option, but the non smokers still would.



click said:


> Why not? They've banned Milk of Magnesia.Have you tried to buy any lately?
> My brother now buys it from America.Long live the EEC.


What's wrong with milk of magnesia?



MrRustyRead said:


> If i was at someones house i understand its their house but id still like to be given the option of leaving the room while they smoke.


But if you know they smoke, then you know not to go there. If you leave the room, you are still going to be able to smell the smoke when you return, and it is still going get down your throat.

I wouldn't ban anything that infringes on people's libertis, like my greasy chip shop chips that I can't get any more.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Nope! I don't think it should be banned per-se. There are far worse things than smoking imo. Drinking to excess is just as dangerous and harmful to society, it kills just as many - drinking related illnesses, drunk-driving, drunken spousal/child beatings, days off work, use of ambulances and hospitals due to drunken nights out, to name some.

Smoking on the other hand (no I don't smoke) usually just affects the smoker and their immediate family, except for the cost for health related illnesses, due to passive smoking and personal ill effects 

Also quitting smoking can lead to obesity and very often does, which in itself leads to obesity related illness, it's alright churning out the old chestnut obese people should exercise more and eat less, that is not always possible, many obese people don't eat that much and are unable to exercise because of mobility problems. It's all a vicious circle really. 

We have enough legislation in this country already prohibiting this and that, so many people telling others what not/or what to do, when they themselves should put their own houses in order.


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

This hits a bit close to home for me. I had to watch my lovely mum kill herself (the doctors words not mine) by getting smoking related illnessess,one after another till eventually she got lung cancer and died. She was offered help, but said she didn't need it coz she could stop anytime she wanted to. She couldn't she was so addicted. 

So my answer to the question is yes, yes and yes again!


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> But if you know they smoke, then you know not to go there. If you leave the room, you are still going to be able to smell the smoke when you return, and it is still going get down your throat.


thats why i dont tend to visit houses of smokers, in actual fact i dont think i know any smokers that i have visited


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

I am a smoker, but if they made tobacco a banned drug, which they never will because they get too much revenue from tobacco, then I would have to conform & use alternatives, like the new electronic cigarettes.
I object to having to go outside in pubs etc when I want a cigarette & can count on one hand the times I've been in one since the ban.
There are places I have never smoked indoors, even before the ban. Other peoples houses I have visited, unless they are also smokers & allow it. The markets/fairs we sell at & high street shops. I smoke in the sun lounge at home, or in the front porch, or in the garden.
I alway dispose of my ciggy butts in the correct place, unless I'm at a car boot in an open space, where there is no proper place to put the said butt.
Having written all that, No, I would not ban tobacco.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I think if you strip it down, remove all your ideas of what smoking is/means etc... and think of it like this....

A new substance is available- it is highly addictive, it's terrible for the health of the user-it is implicated in many cancers and dramatically increases the chances that you will have a stroke. It has systemic effects across every bodily system and damages ability of red blood cells to carry oxygen around the body which affects how the body heals and functions. The benefits of it are limited to the user satisfaction from using it- principally due to it satisfying the biological and psychological addiction that it causes.

There's no way that if it were discovered tomorrow it would be legal. 

But people will always find a way, especially where addiction is concerned.
I'd like to believe that someday we would come to a time when no one smoked, or that a satisfactory alternative, free from the devastating health consequences could be found. 

It does seem to be one of those things that links human culture across the world- you've got primitive wee tribes in a back of beyond that smoke all sorts, to people in the most advanced first world that also smoke so, maybe it's one of those things that is in our nature.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I would ban it from public places, Im fed up of walking in or out of shops and having to hold my breath to avoid all the smokers just outside the door, even the hospital has a cloud of smoke around the entrance . My daughter was once burnt on the arm when she was very small due to someone smoking in a crowd and holding the cigarette at child height.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

No.People will do what the want to do, and banning it totally will drive it underground - just like people how still do drugs will do drugs regardless of the law.

Legalising harmful substances, including alcohol and ciggies, makes it safer in the long run. It is regulated and controlled. Out right bans encourage black market dealing, and the lack of regulation means the substances become more of an unknown and a greater risk to health.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

People would completely ban smoking just because they happen to find it unpleasent? Seriously!? So much for freedom 

I can completely understand the current smoking ban because of the need to protect non-smokers from passive smoking. That's fine by me.

But in the street? In my car? In my own home? No I don't think so!!!

Why the hell should we ban something just because some people find iot unpleasent? It isn't the most dangerous thing in society.

It does pretty much fund the NHS. The cost of smoking to the NHS is millions - not as high as you'd expect as smokers tend to die younger, thus negating the need for treatment for other diseases of "old age". But the revenue from the sale of tobacco products is many BILLIONS. Ban **** and expect every other form of tax in this country to skyrocket.

At the end of the day its *my* money; *my* body, *my* life, *MY choice!*


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

I would ban it on the streets, nothing more vile than breathing in someone else's filthy stench. if people want to stink up their own homes or cars then that's up to them.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

NO, and I've never smoked


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Colette said:


> *People would completely ban smoking just because they happen to find it unpleasent? Seriously!? So much for freedom *
> I can completely understand the current smoking ban because of the need to protect non-smokers from passive smoking. That's fine by me.
> 
> But in the street? In my car? In my own home? No I don't think so!!!
> ...


That's how I feel about no longer being able to get greasy chips. So much for freedom!


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I don't smoke, but don't see a reason to ban it. If people who smoke visit my house, they go outside.. no harm done to anyone


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

No I would not ban it - and the Government never will cos they make too much sodding money from them


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> I would ban it on the streets, nothing more vile than breathing in someone else's filthy stench. if people want to stink up their own homes or cars then that's up to them.


Lots of things offend peoples noses, personally I hate strong perfume/aftershave shall we ban that. Nothing worse than breathing exhaust fumes, ban all types of vehicles shall we. To me one of the vilest things to smell is curry blah - ban it :lol::lol:


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> No, because it's a personal choice and I have no right to inflict my views on others


so long as i dont have to smell it or breath in secondhand smoke im not bothered....


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> No I would not ban it - and the Government never will cos they make too much sodding money from them


when the tax revenue from **** exceeds the NHS spending on smoking-related illnesses it will get banned...


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

No, and no one in my family smokes. *Think it's ****** disguisting*, but if people smoke it's their choice.

Some of my brother and sister's friends smoke, and they are banned from smoking in our house, they have to go outside to smoke. Strict yes, but it's our house

The worst is seeing people smoking around little kids, all the smoke getting blown into their faces. Cannot understand why people smoke around children, ****** disguisting.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> when the tax revenue from **** exceeds the NHS spending on smoking-related illnesses it will get banned...


Absolutely but there's one helluva way to go before reaching that point.
Out of interest, how many people here would be happier if smoking was banned and their taxes increased significantly to make up the shortfall? Only taxpayers need reply for obvious reasons


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I would but it's helping propping up the country through all the revenue


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

It really makes me laugh that people think we are now walking around knee deep in *** ends and that it is the only litter on the street these days. 
Pollute the air is another one, everyone conveniently forgets about all of the other fumes that pollute the air such as car fumes,factories and even the return of log and coal fires, the list is endless but the only fume people are concerned with is cigarette smoke.
Smokers are disgusting horrible creatures continually exhibiting disgusting behaviour lighting up their cigarettes, there could not possibly be a worse kind of human being on this planet.
I really do think there are far worse members of society that deserve a bashing for a change.
Yes i am a smoker.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

no i wouldnt ban smoking, i beleive people have the right to maker their own decisions and i know that prohibiting any drug is simply a 100% surefire way to increase organised crime profits. Instead i would legalise all other drugs so that its not the stupid hyprocrisy that we have to today.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I would ban smoking from all public spaces - having watched my child have a full asthma attack because smoke from peoples cigarettes blew in her face whilst walking down the street I don't know how smokers can claim their smoking doesn't effect others.
If you want to poison yourself go ahead but do it in your own home and on your own property


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Lots of things offend peoples noses, personally I hate strong perfume/aftershave shall we ban that. Nothing worse than breathing exhaust fumes, ban all types of vehicles shall we. To me one of the vilest things to smell is curry blah - ban it :lol::lol:


it's not just a smell with **** though is it? it is toxic and very unfair that it be forced onto people who choose not to put crap like that into their body. smokers who stand outside shops puffing away are utterly thoughtless and selfish imo.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> it's not just a smell with **** though is it? it is toxic and very unfair that it be forced onto people who choose not to put crap like that into their body. smokers who stand outside shops puffing away are utterly thoughtless and selfish imo.


and exhuast fumes are good for you are they?


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

To some degree yes but only in public places with exception to places like pubs where they can choose. Mostly it should be kept away from parks also, mind you despite the signs on kids parks, there's always those who still smoke 

Now being on CO, there's a public ban also but Pot is also legal to smoke and honestly I can actually tolerate the smell of pot better than nicotine. Now I don't like pot myself (i've tried it  ) but the smell of it is not so intoxicating that I struggle to breath. I actually allowed a friend of mine to light up in our apartment which i'd never do with nicotine. Nicotine smell also sticks allot stronger and longer than pot. 

Honestly i'd take pot over nicotine but I still would not allow it smoked in public places.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

No, because people have the right to choose & I think it would just create a huge black market for tobacco. 

If someone is smoking in a public place, something I'm not over keen on as I hate the smell of cigarettes, I just move upwind of them 

I would ban fireworks & those floating Chinese lanterns though, horrible things.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

can tell who the smokers are on this thread  very defensive or their precious cancer sticks  never mind anyone elses health though eh? 

I never said car fumes where good for you but you can't compare smelling a curry or perfume to breathing in *** smoke. it's selfish to stand at a shop door puffing away IMHO!


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I I think it all comes down to who owns outside. If you're a smoker and are smoking at, say, a bus stop for example a non smoker will say why should I have to move away, why shouldn't the smoker move away as they're the one who's breathing smoke on to non smokers but why should that smoker have to move regardless of if they're smoking. Surely a smoker has the same rights as the non smoker? Smoking effects non smokers fact but then what about car fumes, factory fumes, other litter on the floor and the smell of fast food (some people dislike it). If I stand next to someone who has a hygiene problem they may not be effecting our body but we'll still move. Surely the same applies.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Oh please, please find me the evidence that the passing whiff of cigarette smoke you get walking down the street casuses health problems? 

Indoors, in a poorly ventilated room, then yes absolutely passive smoking may cause health problems. But NOT outside. The amount of smoke you actually inhale is barely even there; yet alone the fact that it is mixed in with all those lovely pollutants from cars / factories / etc.



> can tell who the smokers are on this thread very defensive or their precious cancer sticks


Yep; I'm a smoker, and yes I do get defensive about MY personal choice to spend MY money on cigarettes that I will smoke....

If Newfiesmum wants greasy chips, some people want to get skin cancer for the sake of a tan, others prefer to drink themselves to oblivion, then that is THEIR choice. 
What about the people demanding we ban dogs / certain breeds of dogs because they don't like them or believe them to be a danger to them?


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I don't think anyone is being defensive. 

I see both sides of these opinions. I'm a smoker and always try to respect non smokers. I have a friend who doesn't smoke. I don't smoke close to him when I'm with him.

People mentioning fumes aren't being defensive. It's just a valid point to their debate.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

Colette said:


> Oh please, please find me the evidence that the passing whiff of cigarette smoke you get walking down the street casuses health problems?
> 
> Indoors, in a poorly ventilated room, then yes absolutely passive smoking may cause health problems. But NOT outside. The amount of smoke you actually inhale is barely even there; yet alone the fact that it is mixed in with all those lovely pollutants from cars / factories / etc.
> 
> ...


tell that to someone with emphysema or asthma then.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

redroses2106 said:


> can tell who the smokers are on this thread  very defensive or their precious cancer sticks  never mind anyone elses health though eh?
> 
> I never said car fumes where good for you but you can't compare smelling a curry or perfume to breathing in *** smoke. it's selfish to stand at a shop door puffing away IMHO!


Im a non smoker, always have been. Also clean wrt drugs. But I wouldnt ban ****, alcohol or any recreational type drug.

I wont have smoking in my house, but in the street - I would just move upwind. 
Noisy, unruley children annoy me more than smokers, and stress me out which has a detriment to my mental wellbeing - can we ban children from the streets??   
Walking through a waft of smoke occassionally isnt going to cause long term damage, its not like being subject long term. Car fumes etc prob do more damage.

Making something illegal drives the underground market, which drives criminal activity, and allows for unregulated uncontrolled usage in the long run. You CANNOT stop people getting hold of these things, there will always be a presence, so take control of them and regulate them, and tax them!


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

redroses2106 said:


> can tell who the smokers are on this thread  very defensive or their precious cancer sticks  never mind anyone elses health though eh?
> 
> I never said car fumes where good for you but you can't compare smelling a curry or perfume to breathing in *** smoke. *it's selfish to stand at a shop door puffing away *IMHO!


It's banned in all public places in Colorado, including pubs.  Smoking is also not allowed within 10 feet of a shop. It used to drive me crazy as a small shop owner to have people standing in the doorway smoking. The entire store would reek of disgusting cigarette smoke.

Throwing the *** butts on the ground is worse to me than the actual smoking. Someone needs to eventually pick them up, why not the person who smoked it?


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

> tell that to someone with emphysema or asthma then.


There will always be particular cases where people are affected by things like this.

I could suggest we ban peanuts because some people have allergies so severe that someone eating peanuts nearby could potentially kill them. 
Or should we ban pets from being allowed in public places outdoors because of people with asthma or allergies?

It's not that I don't care about other people; but the line has to be drawn somewhere. It doesn't make much sense to me to ban one thing that may affect a certain group of people but openly allow other things that can cause harm. Deal with all the other - far bigger - causes of pollution that affect human health (inc air and water pollution etc) then I'll rethink smoking.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

I would say no....as everyone else has said it's a choice, i don't smoke, never have and never will, i don't like it and won't allow smoking in my home but otherwise i don't have a leg to stand on.

As someone else mentioned i would possibly have a look at the funding for smoking related issues but again where does that stop? Can you say someone with lung cancer who never smoked is entitled to more funding and treatment than someone who got lung cancer and does smoke? And i would then have to look at funding for obesity related issues, which if i'm honest annoys me more than smoking!!!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I would ban it from all public places. The smell makes me sick to my stomach..let alone what health problems it can affect.

I banned smoking from my home when I was pregnant with my first child..over the years anybody who did smoke in my family now doesnt..decided for themselves that it was a money wasting..illness inducing..smell producing waste.

I honestly dont know how anybody can afford to smoke these days with the ridiculous prices charged but its up to them..so long as it doesnt affect other people.

The other day my youngest child and I were trying to untangle a trolley outside a supermarket when we were engulfed by smoke from a man standing a few feet away. It was windy as heck and the smoke was blowing straight at us. I would have hoped he would have noticed but was oblivious to me coughing my guts up


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

I was standing at a bus stop yesterday puffing away on my E cig and a woman few yards away from me began to cough, you know that forced,i'll make a point cough. Really annoyed me, i pointed out that it was an E cig and to get over herself. 
Some people will not be happy whatever you try to do to appease them.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

i find anyone who complains about passive smoking _outside_ to be completely ridiculous. I can understand rules like not smoking in parks though (due to the rubbish it creates when ppl chuck their cig butts away). Not really in agreement with them, but i at least understand them. Though i cant imagine i would ever go to any park that i couldnt smoke in, or if i did, i would just smoke.

Non-smokers- you dont own the outdoors much as you would like to think you do.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> can tell who the smokers are on this thread  very defensive or their precious cancer sticks  never mind anyone elses health though eh?
> 
> I never said car fumes where good for you but you can't compare smelling a curry or perfume to breathing in *** smoke. it's selfish to stand at a shop door puffing away IMHO!


I don't see people smoking in shop doorways, maybe shop somewhere nicer  And if you read the threads properly many have said they do not smoke but do not support a ban. As smoking is banned anyway in doors you must go to some odd places if you are breathing in all this cigarette smoke


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

redroses2106 said:


> *can tell who the smokers are on this thread * very defensive or their precious cancer sticks  never mind anyone elses health though eh?
> 
> I never said car fumes where good for you but you can't compare smelling a curry or perfume to breathing in *** smoke. it's selfish to stand at a shop door puffing away IMHO!


I don't smoke any more, haven't done for almost a year, but I will still defend the "precious cancer sticks" because I will defend people's right to choose. We are always being told about people's right to choose what to do with their own bodies, then a load of bigots come along and tell us we should do things their way.



Toby Tyler said:


> It's banned in all public places in Colorado, including pubs.  Smoking is also not allowed within 10 feet of a shop. It used to drive me crazy as a small shop owner to have people standing in the doorway smoking. The entire store would reek of disgusting cigarette smoke.
> 
> Throwing the *** butts on the ground is worse to me than the actual smoking. Someone needs to eventually pick them up, why not the person who smoked it?


A few months ago I saw a man gathering up the cigarette butts outside a block of flats and taking them with him in his pocket to re-use. That might be the only cigarette he gets, so I wouldn't begrudge it, even though it seems disgusting.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> I don't smoke any more, haven't done for almost a year, but I will still defend the "precious cancer sticks" because I will defend people's right to choose. We are always being told about people's right to choose what to do with their own bodies, then a load of bigots come along and tell us we should do things their way.
> 
> A few months ago I saw a man gathering up the cigarette butts outside a block of flats and taking them with him in his pocket to re-use. That might be the only cigarette he gets, so I wouldn't begrudge it, even though it seems disgusting.


*This made me laugh, many many years ago when money was tight, i can remember emptying the ash trays and making ciggies from the *** butts. Only those in our house i might add.*


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> tell that to someone with emphysema or asthma then.


All the very smelly smoke from barbeques would actually have more effect - it stinks more and there is a hell of a lot more of it are you calling for barbis to be banned too?

_and I have family members with both asthma and ephysema so do know what I am talking about, and for info the biggest cause of ephysema is smoking_


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> All the very smelly smoke from barbeques would actually have more effect - it stinks more and there is a hell of a lot more of it are you calling for barbis to be banned too?
> 
> _and I have family members with both asthma and ephysema so do not what I am talking about, and for info the biggest cause of ephysema is smoking_


I also have family with both conditions, otherwise I wouldn't of mentioned it, . no need to be so patronising because I have a differing opinion!


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> A few months ago I saw a man gathering up the cigarette butts outside a block of flats and taking them with him in his pocket to re-use. That might be the only cigarette he gets, so I wouldn't begrudge it, even though it seems disgusting.


My shop was in a small tourist town selling handmade organic soap and bath products. Lovely natural smells were part of the draw of the store, not cigarette reek. All of the shops in the town are 'nice' but that didn't stop the inconsiderate slobs from smoking in the doorways. Even the smoking ban didn't stop them TBH. But it did cut down on it and I could at least politely remind smokers they needed to move on.

Oh I have seen that too. There is an old guy in town who goes through the bins that are placed on every corner to get his smokes.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

redroses2106 said:


> tell that to someone with emphysema or asthma then.


*My brother in law has had 2 heart attacks and has emphysema but he still smokes, aged 73.*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

To be fair though Ashma can be caused by many things not just smoking ...I have ashma now mainly due to allergy/dust /pet hair


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> I also have family with both conditions, otherwise I wouldn't of mentioned it, . no need to be so patronising because I have a differing opinion!


Whats patronising its a valid question - my sister is a severe asthmatic a barbi billowing out smoke would make her very ill and its very difficult to get away from if its next door. the little bit of smoke from a passing smoker she would simply walk around them, hold her breath for the nano second as she went by.

And its you saying all smokers are disgusting, shelfish etc etc


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *My brother in law has had 2 heart attacks and has emphysema but he still smokes, aged 73.*


Sorry couldn't resist....


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

porps said:


> i find anyone who complains about passive smoking _outside_ to be completely ridiculous. I can understand rules like not smoking in parks though (due to the rubbish it creates when ppl chuck their cig butts away). Not really in agreement with them, but i at least understand them. Though i cant imagine i would ever go to any park that i couldnt smoke in, or if i did, i would just smoke.
> 
> *Non-smokers- you dont have own the outdoors much as you would like to think you do*.


Neither do the smokers!!! 

I cause no offence when I inflict my personal smoke-free, non-smoking breath upon the world at large. Nobodies clothes will smell of my non-smoking. Nobody will need to wash their face or hair due to the smell of my non-smoking air. People will not cough or have streaming, sore eyes due to my non-smoking habit. Publicans, shop-keepers etc will not have to sweep the street up after I have left due to my non-smoking.

I have no problem with smokers et all. I DO have a problem with those whose attitude is "I'm alright Jack. I've got my nasty smelly habit and YOU can just put up with me inflicting it upon you whether you like it or not!"


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Toby Tyler said:


> Sorry couldn't resist....


Why would you post that??


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

MoggyBaby said:


> Neither do the smokers!!!
> 
> I cause no offence when I inflict my personal smoke-free, non-smoking breath upon the world at large. Nobodies clothes will smell of my non-smoking. Nobody will need to wash their face or hair due to the smell of my non-smoking air. People will not cough or have streaming, sore eyes due to my non-smoking habit. Publicans, shop-keepers etc will not have to sweep the street up after I have left due to my non-smoking.
> 
> I have no problem with smokers et all. I DO have a problem with those whose attitude is "I'm alright Jack. I've got my nasty smelly habit and YOU can just put up with me inflicting it upon you whether you like it or not!"


I do see what you are saying here MB - some people are very selfish when they smoke and dont take other peoples feelings into consideration - its about balance really -

I will add I am VERY anti smoking in front of children


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Whats patronising its a valid question - my sister is a severe asthmatic a barbi billowing out smoke would make her very ill and its very difficult to get away from if its next door. the little bit of smoke from a passing smoker she would simply walk around them, hold her breath for the nano second as she went by.
> 
> *And its you saying all smokers are disgusting, shellfish *etc etc


:scared:










:lol: :lol:

.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Why would you post that??


To make the point that even people with emphysema and lung cancer will still smoke. Nothing will stop some people.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Neither do the smokers!!!


Indeed, and you are quite welcome to not smoke outside as much as you want. Just as i will smoke outside as much as i want.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

NO.we live in a nanny state unless its illegal.sick fed up being dictated too! rant over!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I don't smoke and I'm very happy for smokers to be subsidising the NHS. I would rather the revenue came from them than from my pocket. A little inconvenience to me occasionally in return for a large contribution to the national coffers strikes me as a very good deal.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Toby Tyler said:


> To make the point that even people with emphysema and lung cancer will still smoke. Nothing will stop some people.


Which most smokers are aware of - an addiction is an addiction whatever the vice


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

I have my own thoughts and opinions on people who smoke infront of young children, be it in the house or out and about. But i'm not posting them here coz i'll get shot down.

Only yesterday i was out in Newbury and there was this young mother puffing away, blowing the smoke over the child's face.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

I wouldnt ban it, but would keep it as is outside only and not in cars with children inside.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

willa said:


> I have my own thoughts and opinions on people who smoke infront of young children, be it in the house or out and about. But i'm not posting them here coz i'll get shot down.
> 
> Only yesterday i was out in Newbury and there was this young mother puffing away, blowing the smoke over the child's face.


my mums always smoked, I remember her zipping my coats up for me with a *** hanging out her mouth breathing it all over my face, she's probably one of the reasons I am so against it, back then I don't think people were so aware of how bad it is, now they do know they should at least have a little consideration, especially around kids.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

MontyMaude said:


> I think I possibly would  It's not so much the smoking that I have the issue with but it's the littering and nastiness that goes with it, I find nothing worse than walking past a pub or covered bus stop or smoking shelter near hospitals or just the high street etc oh and even the beach  and just seeing stubbed out *** ends everywhere.


yea I would extend the ban to at least fifty metres from shopping centre entrances etc as well Im sick of walking in and gagging on someone elses smoke.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I smoke but I don't smoke in my house, in my car and never around children, I wouldn't smoke outside an entrance where people walk through either. But I find non smokers to be pretty over dramatic about the whole smoking thing. As long as I'm not standing on top of you blowing it in your face I really don't see how it's going to harm you. Walking past someone who is smoking or getting a whiff of cigarette smoke is not going to kill you.

I would not ban smoking obviously, what gives anyone the right to tell a person they cannot engage in a perfectly legal activity if they want to? I don't live my life to please non smokers and if I want to smoke then I will, if you don't like it then don't come near me when I'm smoking....Simple!


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

To the people who say "my money, my life, my health" are you also in favour of the legalisation of recreational drugs? Out of curiosity..


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Ex smoker only off them 3 months, the smell now makes me heave  wouldn't ban it though each to their own, if someone told me a few months ago I should stop, I smell, I'm killing, myself and those around me, and I was selfish if I didn't stop smoking they would have been told to shove it! I honestly think some smokers rightly get defensive because non smokers can be so holier than thou, but also they know the dangers, they know it stinks, costs a fortune etc and they have tried to give up and find it too hard, it's bloody hard let me tell you, ffs drug users and alcoholics get clinics and residential care etc, smokers get a patch and a leaflet, also some people just enjoy smoking! I do think they should come down harder on the litter side of it mind!! Walking through it to get in to shops makes me want to puke mind but that's 2 seconds of stench and your not going to smoke in my house so we are all sorted! Why ban it though?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *This made me laugh, many many years ago when money was tight, i can remember emptying the ash trays and making ciggies from the *** butts. Only those in our house i might add.*


I think most of us have done it at times. I well remember going round the ashtrays and salvaging the little bits near the tips.



JANICE199 said:


> *My brother in law has had 2 heart attacks and has emphysema but he still smokes, aged 73.*


There is a lady who walks her Jack Russell on the heath twice a day with her walking frame. She must be 80 at least, can barely walk but still walks all over with her little dog. She gets out of the car with a *** in her mouth and comes back with a *** in her mouth. I don't know how many she has while she is off with the dog! Anyone who says they will die early should meet her.



grumpy goby said:


> To the people who say "my money, my life, my health" are you also in favour of the legalisation of recreational drugs? Out of curiosity..


Don't know enough about them to judge, but to my mind cigarettes are a recreational drug, same as alcohol.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> To the people who say "my money, my life, my health" are you also in favour of the legalisation of recreational drugs? Out of curiosity..


Have been for a long time. Control of supply, cutting the criminal suppliers out of the chain, revenue being used for good. Yeah, I am.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Weird thing is when I picked my son up from the station this afternoon, as he opened the car door a girl walked past with a cigarette and my god! The smell nearly knocked me out and she wasn't there long enough for it to really get in the car.

I never thought I would get like that after only 11 months.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> Weird thing is when I picked my son up from the station this afternoon, as he opened the car door a girl walked past with a cigarette and my god! The smell nearly knocked me out and she wasn't there long enough for it to really get in the car.
> 
> I never thought I would get like that after only 11 months.


As a former smoker many years ago, I think for those that have kicked the habit the smell is worse and particularly offensive.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Actually I see more and more people out and about with E cigs now - which the EU are looking to interfere with & ban or whatever, most likely because governments don't like losing the tax revenue from normal cigarettes. So if the opportunity arises non-smokers should join in making sure they are left alone as you won't then need to smell anything


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Toby Tyler said:


> Sorry couldn't resist....


*PMSL..that would be him, he's such a pratt.*


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

i dont see the point in debating weather i think it should be banned as it will never happen as the government make too much money to ban it, but i am still a light smoker and i really hate it when i see people smoking on t.v as it makes me want another i never take baccy when i go out and i hate smoking when im walking, , i dont even want one in the street if i see someone else smoking,,,we can train our brains


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

The only things I want to see banned are violence, cruelty and poverty. I don't really care about anything else.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Actually I see more and more people out and about with E cigs now - which the EU are looking to interfere with & ban or whatever, most likely because governments don't like losing the tax revenue from normal cigarettes


I think they're losing that battle little by little. I also think it isn't as simple as governments and tax revenue. Nor is it the tobacco companies who have most to lose as they can turn to manufacturing e-cig equivalents. The big pharmacutical companies are extremely powerful and they make a fortune from patches and drugs, not only through direct sales but here in the UK also through the huge sales to the NHS. The success rate with these products is so low that they are guaranteed much repeat business. I think there's a nurse in the states who was paid a six figure sum to spread doom and gloom about e-cigs. As always - follow the money


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *PMSL..that would be him, he's such a pratt.*


Glad you took it that way, which was my intention. Somehow I knew you would


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> The only things I want to see banned are violence, cruelty and poverty. I don't really care about anything else.


Yip got to agree sick of this dictatorship if i want to smoke drink.i.ll do it .i pay shitloads in tax,keeps this country going!


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## scosha37 (Feb 24, 2008)

Yes i would ban it!  esp in all public places yes i know people have the right to do it but what about the people that breathes in 2nd smoke like walking down the street like walking behind someone bang lite up poof of smoke and if your not good a dodging folk it hard and plus seeing people and staff outside shops ect was worse when i was in wheel chair.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

scosha37 said:


> Yes i would ban it!  esp in all public places yes i know people have the right to do it but what about the people that breathes in 2nd smoke like walking down the street like walking behind someone bang lite up poof of smoke and if your not good a dodging folk it hard and plus seeing people and staff outside shops ect was worse when i was in wheel chair.


What about people driving? carbon monoxide? ...causes so much more damage. at all levels.


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## scosha37 (Feb 24, 2008)

mollydog07 said:


> What about people driving? carbon monoxide? ...causes so much more damage. at all levels.


I dont drive  plus never seen a question about driving


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> What about people driving? carbon monoxide? ...causes so much more damage. at all levels.


Have to say I do worry about what I breathe in and second hand smoke is way down my list. Do giggle at the thought of car advertising being banned and all drivers being shunned. Whereas I don't smoke I do drive a large, shiny automobile and nobody ever suggests I'm the cause of all their ills


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> Yip got to agree sick of this dictatorship if i want to smoke drink.i.ll do it .i pay shitloads in tax,keeps this country going!


Yeah..drink..smoke..whatever..just dont let any if your pastimes affect those around you...ie people in the street who get smoke blown in their faces. When this happens and my kids are with me..I get soooooo angry. Its selfish if your enjoyment adversely affects others imo.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

scosha37 said:


> Yes i would ban it!  esp in all public places yes i know people have the right to do it but what about the people that breathes in 2nd smoke like walking down the street like walking behind someone bang lite up poof of smoke and if your not good a dodging folk it hard and plus seeing people and staff outside shops ect was worse when i was in wheel chair.


Yeah! Crotch height is not a nice place to be when someone is smoking near you. I just wish smokers had more regard for non-smokers. It does seem as though the "I just gotta have a ciggy as I'm addicted brigade!" takes precedent over everybody else. Non-smokers are expected to understand a smoker's addiction and to make allowances for this.

This is from an ex-smokers 40 year old habit point of view. It's not until you give it up that you realise just how abhorant it is.

But I still don't think they should ban it.
__________________


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> Have to say I do worry about what I breathe in and second hand smoke is way down my list. Do giggle at the thought of car advertising being banned and all drivers being shunned. Whereas I don't smoke I do drive a large, shiny automobile and nobody ever suggests I'm the cause of all their ills


Havoc! your banned!


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

scosha37 said:


> I dont drive


me neither, but i still have to breathe in the fumes.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I dont drive





> me neither, but i still have to breathe in the fumes.


So does every baby in a pushchair, every child, everyone in wheelchairs, plus the rest of us though we are thankfully not in the direct path of exhaust gasses. Easier all ways round to demonise smokers though. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be in a smokey room any more than any other non-smoker but really, walking past a smoker outside? I live in the country but have to go up to London fairly regularly. I come back and my hair is greasy, my skin is a mess, my clothes are filthy. I'm reasonably sure it isn't the result of smokers outside offices or shops.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Yeah I would love to ban it with immediate effect


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## scosha37 (Feb 24, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> Yeah I would love to ban it with immediate effect


Claire is that Smoking or Car fumes ?


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> Yeah I would love to ban it with immediate effect


fine ban all the tax we pay.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

scosha37 said:


> Claire is that Smoking or Car fumes ?


Well i cant see a way of banning car fumes. I couldnt do the job I do without driving. What would happen to all the businesses that relay on travel links etc.
Smoking however I would ban as it does no good to anyone.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> Well i cant see a way of banning car fumes. I couldnt do the job I do without driving. What would happen to all the businesses that relay on travel links etc.
> Smoking however I would ban as it does no good to anyone.


Eh? how do you know? enjoy a cig....would not ban it! my op.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

mollydog07 said:


> Eh? how do you know? enjoy a cig....would not ban it! my op.


You are entitled to your opinion that's fine.

Imo nothing good comes of smoking. Since Friday I have nursed 2 people who have died of lung cancer and other mets cause by life long smoking. One was quite a painful distressing. (drowning) death despite best efforts to keep the lady comfortable. I have never cared for a dying patient in their last days who hasn't hugely regretted smoking and wish they had neversstarted and for that reason I would ban it.

Oh and I am an ex smoker myself.

I can't count the times patients have cried to me. saying don't you ever smoke look what's happened to me!


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## dog4god (Jan 15, 2013)

It's been 20 plus years since i have had a sig but i still get the craving for one, when dose this stop i ask.
No to banning smoking, in another 20 years i may start.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Been interesting reading all the replies. 

I've been a smoker now for over four years and I know what it's doing to my body. Repeat chest pains says it all. The longest I've quit for is three months and started again because I lost self control when I was drunk with a group full of friends lighting up.

I have an e ciggy and patches and have tried many times to quit. You're branded weak if you can't do it but I can admit I am.

I believe you have to really want to quit to do it, not because you know you should. I know I should but one thing stresses me out and I light up. I guess I don't really want to stop.

in regards to children. I don't smoke around children. Ever. I was appalled with an ex friend of mine a few years back whose child at the time was still in a push chair. I was outside her flat speaking with her on her step and was angry to watch her light up a joint and blow it all in her babies face. 

a drugged up baby. That is worse. 

I smoke in my home but know when I have children I won't be.

Not all smokers are selfish. Like not all people who get drunk, beat someone up, have sex within the public eye and get behind the wheel, etc.


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## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

I'd like to say yes, but as with prohibition it simply wouldn't work. The black market would explode and you'd just be funding criminals and organised crime


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Smoking however I would ban as it does no good to anyone.


It creates jobs and huge tax revenue.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> You are entitled to your opinion that's fine.
> 
> Imo nothing good comes of smoking. Since Friday I have nursed 2 people who have died of lung cancer and other mets cause by life long smoking. One was quite a painful distressing. (drowning) death despite best efforts to keep the lady comfortable. I have never cared for a dying patient in their last days who hasn't hugely regretted smoking and wish they had neversstarted and for that reason I would ban it.
> 
> ...


it doesnt matter wether you think no good comes of it, what matters is wether anygood would come of banning it...

So lets see

If you ban it, people will still smoke. This was true with booze in the american prohibition, and its true with every single illicit drug today.

If its banned but people still smoke, then they must obtain their tobacco on the black market. This has at least 2 negative effects:
1- it creates a big opportunity for organised crime
2- the buyer cannot be sure exactly what they are buying- there is no quality control meaning it may actually become even more dangerous to smoke. I'm fairly confident that a "tobacco baron" would have no qualms about including any old crap that bumps up the weight in their black market tobacco.

-The country will lose vast amounts of tax revenue.
-The country will have to expend money on enforcement/punishment

-if a smoker wanted to quit they would not be able to get any help with it.

And now the benefits.. lets see.. um.. oh i know..
1 - maybe you wont get the occassional whiff of tobacco smoke in the street.

And they call smokers selfish...

Prohibiton doesnt work


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

havoc said:


> It creates jobs and huge tax revenue.


What about the huge costs(Nhs) and massive personal loss people suffer because of it. Imo that is much more negative and out weighs your point


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

negative creep said:


> I'd like to say yes, but as with prohibition it simply wouldn't work. The black market would explode and you'd just be funding criminals and organised crime


Wow so were criminals now? lol? muppet


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

I wouldn't ban it..... The smoking ban is good enough for me


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> What about the huge costs(Nhs) and massive personal loss people suffer because of it. Imo that is much more negative and out weighs your point


and what about the costs of enforcement of a ban? Or the costs of punishing people who ignore the ban? Not to mention the fact that people would still be smoking so the nhs would still be dealing with the problems caused by smoking and personal loss would still be suffered.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

porps said:


> it doesnt matter wether you think no good comes of it, what matters is wether anygood would come of banning it...
> 
> So lets see
> 
> ...


I would argue that far more people would actually quit or by safer alternatives than buy cigs illegally as did thousands of people when it was banned in public places.

I have never based my opinion regarding smoking on the "whiff of tobacco" Ive based my opinion on *other* peoples health which is obviously very selfish of me


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

ClaireLouise said:


> What about the huge costs(Nhs) and massive personal loss people suffer because of it. Imo that is much more negative and out weighs your point


 Well here in the UK smokers pay for their treatment by national Insurance. They pay. And tax on cigarettes too.

I once bought tobacco from someone on the side. Rolled one, lit it up...throat felt like it was on fire and rolly set alight. Eff knows what was in it.

What I'm saying is if smoking was banned people would buy ciggies on the side and there could be anything in it.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> I would argue that far more people would actually quit or by safer alternatives than buy cigs illegally as did thousands of people when it was banned in public places.
> 
> I have never based my opinion regarding smoking on the "whiff of tobacco" Ive based my opinion on *other* peoples health which is obviously very selfish of me


but banning a substance doesnt make it safer it makes it considerably more dangerous.

history has shown every single time that banning a substance does not stop people from using it.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

LETS GO WITH THIS....i am 47 smoke and drrink...dont bother my gp! never have! i smoke drink, pay full tax! hellooooo! how dare anyone tell me to stop smoking!.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

porps said:


> and what about the costs of enforcement of a ban? Or the costs of punishing people who ignore the ban? Not to mention the fact that people would still be smoking so the nhs would still be dealing with the problems caused by smoking and personal loss would still be suffered.


*Around 1,260 people are admitted to hospital every day because of smoking-related sickness
 this is 1 in 20 of all hospital admissions
s. 
Every year smoking kills nearly 80,000 people in England
. Half of all regular smokers who 
continue to smoke will eventually be killed by their smoking
The estimated cost to the NHS for 2005 was £5bn

IMO all good reasons. that isnt even taking into account personal loss and the effect it has on peoples family*


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> Wow so were criminals now? lol? muppet


 He didn't mean it like that. It is true. It doesn't make you a criminal smoking but organised crime would happen like drugs. Murders would happen as there would be competition for who would be the biggest dealer. That's not half of it.

I'm crap at explaining. I'm sure ng can.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I wish I could wave my wand and make everyone dislike cigs..and drugs..and alcohol...
and sugary fizzy stuff...
and make them love water...and the greens... (porps..I mean lettuce!!)


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The estimated cost to the NHS for 2005 was £5bn


And the tax take is double that. If smoking were banned the country would LOSE money. If you honestly cared about costs to the NHS you'd campaign to have ready meals and junk food banned and criminalise every parent who ever lets their child drink Coke.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

havoc said:


> And the tax take is double that. If smoking were banned the country would LOSE money.


Yes and you are totally right for 2005 statistic but if we start to look to the future and predict the amount of smokers in 10 years time for example. Less and less people are smoking. I think its ofically dropping something like 3% a year quitting and less young people taking it up so in 10 year that will really start to tip the scales. People will still be requiring hospital treatment and less people will be smoking and paying tax as your point covers the cost at present. People are living longer(not necessarily with good health) due to good treatments so the cost of health care will continue to rise


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

havoc said:


> And the tax take is double that. If smoking were banned the country would LOSE money. If you honestly cared about costs to the NHS you'd campaign to have ready meals and junk food banned and criminalise every parent who ever lets their child drink Coke.


I do not care about the cost to the NHS I am just sharing info. As i have started before I care about the cost to people!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> People will still be requiring hospital treatment and less people will be smoking and paying tax as your point covers the cost at present


Won't fewer smokers = less money spent on treating smoking related disease or am I missing something in the maths. Oh, yes I am, the tax take per packet is rising as the government increases duty so smokers will be paying proportionally more towards your and my care.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

To be fair i can see where claire is comin from 
..i dont agree with a full ban i agree fully with porps that a bsn would not solve tje problem ....however i dont work with sick people dying from smokin ..claire does so has a different outlook because she deals with the effects daily ....


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

havoc said:


> Won't fewer smokers = less money spent on treating smoking related disease or am I missing something in the maths. Oh, yes I am, the tax take per packet is rising as the government increases duty so smokers will be paying proportionally more towards your and my care.


You do often have to smoke a period of time before it causes you to become unwell dont you?
So therefore as the number of people from younger generations dont take up smoking the people who have been smoking a long time are starting to need treatment if you see what im saying.

Very few people start smoking and become immediately unwell so therefore its when the current generation of smokers(at a reduced number) reach the point of needing treatment for smoking related conditions that this would be reflected in the cost.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Very few people start smoking and become immediately unwell so therefore its when the current generation of smokers(at a reduced number) reach the point of needing treatment for smoking related conditions that this would be reflected in the cost.


This is why the government increase the duty. It's to make up the shortfall from those who kick the habit. Did you think it was because they gave a damn about the personal cost to relatives of smokers? Please tell me you didn't.

Make no mistake here folks, I nursed my mother for years until she died of smoking. It wasn't pleasant. I still have the sense to understand when I'm being manipulated and I won't demonise people who smoke just because propaganda tells me I should.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> fine ban all the tax we pay.


If you resent the tax then give up..saves your money..your health and the environment..win win situation really


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> To be fair i can see where claire is comin from
> ..i dont agree with a full ban i agree fully with porps that a bsn would not solve tje problem ....however i dont work with sick people dying from smokin ..claire does so has a different outlook because she deals with the effects daily ....


Thanks for that Suze. I can 100% see where people come from when they list all the issues with banning smoking. I can totally see their point.

However the nature of my job I cant condone smoking and could honestly say in time I would see a huge benefit from smoking being banned.

I work in a Leg ulcer clinic also. Clogged arteries and veins make awful nasty painful ulcers that are difficult to heal. I see them all day, I see the effects they have on people. The arterial ulcer require surgery and can result in some cases in amputation.

Ive seen amputees due to smoking.

I visited a lady in the last few days to drain the space between her lung and ribs because she couldnt breath due to lung cancer and died quite distressed despite our best efforts.

I see people with COPD fighting to breath unable to hold a short conversation

and most importantly my mum is dying of smoking related cancer at the age of 56.

I can fully see why smokers wouldnt want smoking banned, I get that they have a choice and the problems relating to crime however I think I am still entitled to my opinion based on my experiences and I do stand by that. I dont think many people would do my job and be happy to see people smoke.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

havoc said:


> This is why the government increase the duty. It's to make up the shortfall from those who kick the habit. Did you think it was because they gave a damn about the personal cost to relatives of smokers? Please tell me you didn't.
> 
> Make no mistake here folks, I nursed my mother for years until she died of smoking. It wasn't pleasant. I still have the sense to understand when I'm being manipulated and I won't demonise people who smoke just because propaganda tells me I should.


They will have to increase it a bloody lot in time then LOL
Sorry to hear of your mum,


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If you resent the tax then give up


That's the joy of it from a revenue perspective. It's addictive so your comment is like telling a heroin addict to give up rather than pay the dealer the going rate for a fix. The main dealer in this case is government as around 85% of the price of cigarettes goes straight to them. Chances of a ban - not great.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> and I most importantly my mum is dying of smoking related cancer at the age of 56


It's horrid - I do know.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> Yes and you are totally right for 2005 statistic but if we start to look to the future and predict the amount of smokers in 10 years time for example. Less and less people are smoking. I think its ofically dropping something like 3% a year quitting and less young people taking it up so in 10 year that will really start to tip the scales. People will still be requiring hospital treatment and less people will be smoking and paying tax as your point covers the cost at present. People are living longer(not necessarily with good health) due to good treatments so the cost of health care will continue to rise


doesnt matter if theres 100 smokers or 1billion smokers, the revenue created by it will still outweigh the cost of treating the problems caused by it. Less smokers doesnt mean that the ratio of revenue to cost will change.



cheekyscrip said:


> I wish I could wave my wand and make everyone dislike cigs..and drugs..and alcohol...
> and sugary fizzy stuff...
> and make them love water...and the greens... (porps..I mean lettuce!!)


Of course, i have no idea what else you could possibly have meant :aureola:



suzy93074 said:


> To be fair i can see where claire is comin from
> ..i dont agree with a full ban i agree fully with porps that a bsn would not solve tje problem ....however i dont work with sick people dying from smokin ..claire does so has a different outlook because she deals with the effects daily ....


Yeah i can see where she is coming from too, but it seems like more of an (understandable) emotional response than one thats been thought through weighing up all the pro's and cons. It also works on the premise that prohibition actually works which, provably, it does not.
I dont mean offense by this btw, i just cant seem to phrase it right :/


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

chichi said:


> Yeah..drink..smoke..whatever..just dont let any if your pastimes affect those around you...ie people in the street who get smoke blown in their faces. When this happens and my kids are with me..I get soooooo angry. Its selfish if your enjoyment adversely affects others imo.


Blimey some of you must live in strange areas, I know lots of smokers and not one would blow smoke in someones face, they don't lurk in doorways making a nuisance of themselves and purposely hold cigs up out of the way of passersby, children etc. None of the offices or shops would permit either customers or staff to smoke at the front of their premises, then tend to be hidden away at the back out of everyones way



ClaireLouise said:


> What about the huge costs(Nhs) and massive personal loss people suffer because of it. Imo that is much more negative and out weighs your point





ClaireLouise said:


> *Around 1,260 people are admitted to hospital every day because of smoking-related sickness
>  this is 1 in 20 of all hospital admissions
> s.
> Every year smoking kills nearly 80,000 people in England
> ...


*

I can see your point of view but what is the comparative cost of obesity, poor diets etc - probably loads more and not covered by the high taxation smokers pay.

I understand why you feel the way you do but if for example you worked with dementia sufferers or people who have all sorts of health issues due to obesity you would maybe think every last one of us is going to die of something - if everyone lived a perfect healthy lifestyle some would still get cancers etc but who is going to pay for/take care of all these very old people.*


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

havoc said:


> That's the joy of it from a revenue perspective. It's addictive so your comment is like telling a heroin addict to give up rather than pay the dealer the going rate for a fix. The main dealer in this case is government as around 85% of the price of cigarettes goes straight to them. Chances of a ban - not great.


I dont think tobacco is quite the same as heroin from a giving it up perspective.

My OH gave up smoking some years ago (As have my Brother..Mum..Nieces.....). They all struggled but managed to continue working..doing everything they did whilst smoking. Most heroin addicts need professional rehab to give up.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I dont think tobacco is quite the same as heroin from a giving it up perspective


It's one of the most addictive substances known.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

porps said:


> doesnt matter if theres 100 smokers or 1billion smokers, the revenue created by it will still outweigh the cost of treating the problems caused by it. Less smokers doesnt mean that the ratio of revenue to cost will change.
> 
> :/


I think you will find it does. I had to attend a lovely long lecture regarding this recently. I find it hard to explain it on here as it was shown to us in graph form etc. If in 10 years the amount of smoker is much less(3%per year quitting= 30% and less younger people starting in the first place 25%) it wont mean that what it cost the NHS is less at that time because the NHS dont often treat new smokers. They are people who have been smoking 30/40/50/60 years so the scale will slide as the cost continues to increase until the generations that have less smokers are the ones being treated!

In 2005 £5bn was the cost to the NHS, the revenue from smoking was £9.7bn. (sorry I have no recent figures but would imagine both have risen. So 10 years from today with a drop of 55% the revenue of taxing smokers will be less. But the NHS will still be treating previous smoker so it wont have a lower cost

Does anyone understand me! lol someone please say they understand me


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

If I had the power I'd stop smoking.:sad:


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

I think I would like to "un-invent" smoking


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

havoc said:


> It's one of the most addictive substances known.


It doesnt have the same side effects of withdrawing from hard drugs does it. A person can quit smoking perfectly safely at home un aided, its hard not impossible (I have done this myself). Heroin needs medical assistance due to the dangers of withdrawing


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

chichi said:


> I dont think tobacco is quite the same as heroin from a giving it up perspective.
> 
> My OH gave up smoking some years ago (As have my Brother..Mum..Nieces.....). They all struggled but managed to continue working..doing everything they did whilst smoking. Most heroin addicts need professional rehab to give up.


No doubt the physical withdrawal caused by giving up heroin is worse than when giving up cigarettes, but the chances of relapsing are higher with nicotine.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> I think you will find it does. I had to attend a lovely long lecture regarding this recently. I find it hard to explain it on here as it was shown to us in graph form etc. If in 10 years the amount of smoker is much less(3%per year quitting= 30% and less younger people starting in the first place 25%) it wont mean that what it cost the NHS is less at that time because the NHS dont often treat new smokers. They are people who have been smoking 30/40/50/60 years so the scale will slide as the cost continues to increase until the generations that have less smokers are the ones being treated!
> 
> In 2005 £5bn was the cost to the NHS, the revenue from smoking was £9.7bn. (sorry I have no recent figures but would imagine both have risen. So 10 years from today with a drop of 55% the revenue of taxing smokers will be less. But the NHS will still be treating previous smoker so it wont have a lower cost
> 
> Does anyone understand me! lol someone please say they understand me


I understand you. But please remember that taxes on tobacco will continue to increase to cover the costs, that the costs of the nhs will go down as more older smokers die, and that you cannot possibly say for certain how many smokers there will be in 10 years time or how much the tax will be on a pack of cigarettes.

Or... if you can say that for certain, could you please do my lottery numbers for me too?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Zaros said:


> If I had the power I'd stop smoking.:sad:


If you feel like that keep trying you will do it, your already thinking about is so your part way there

Have a peek at this change model its useful


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

havoc said:


> It's one of the most addictive substances known.


Yes of course its addictive..people would hardly spend pounds upon pounds out of pure choice but not on the level of heroin..nothing near from what I have seen on tv and the likes.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Does anyone understand me! lol someone please say they understand me


Actually I do and although we have completely opposed views on a ban I suspect we're probably coming from the same place in lots of ways.

I'm also keeping the title of the thread in mind and the 'bigger' picture. IF I had the power to ban smoking I'd also be in a position where I'd have to consider that big picture and put personal experience aside. It wouldn't be in my interests to add to an aging population - that's enough of a problem already. I'd need people to smoke and drink themselves to a premature death and joy of joys, I can make money from it. Sure, I could ban smoking in pubs and stop supermarkets displaying cigarettes and idiots would believe I really wanted everyone to live longer.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

porps said:


> I understand you. But please remember that taxes on tobacco will continue to increase to cover the costs, that the costs of the nhs will go down as more older smokers die, and that you cannot possibly say for certain how many smokers there will be in 10 years time or how much the tax will be on a pack of cigarettes.
> 
> Or... if you can say that for certain, could you please do my lottery numbers for me too?


I cant say anything, I am just passing on info I have been given by people who make a living studying figures and predicting future trends!
The cost of increasing tax cant cover the slide in costs ahead because every tax increase means more smokers quit therefore less income from smoking


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> I cant say anything, I am just passing on info I have been given by people who make a living studying figures and predicting future trends!
> The cost of increasing tax cant cover the slide in costs ahead because every tax increase means more smokers quit therefore less income from smoking


and if it were banned, there would be NO tax, yet we'd still be dealing with the costs of smoking related disease, the costs of enforcing a ban, the costs of prosecuting people who continue to smoke, and the costs of fighting the organised criminals who take over the tobaco industry.

It's not like im here claiming that tobacco is good, i've been trying to give it up for years with little success... all im saying is that banning it is worse since it doesnt solve any of the problems but creates many more.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

porps said:


> and if it were banned, there would be NO tax, yet we'd still be dealing with the costs of smoking related disease, the costs of enforcing a ban, the costs of prosecuting people who continue to smoke, and the costs of fighting the organised criminals who take over the tobaco industry.
> 
> It's not like im here claiming that tobacco is good, i've been trying to give it up for years with little success... all im saying is that banning it is worse since it doesnt solve any of the problems but creates many more.


im not saying you are wrong. I am saying from personal experience I would like to see it banned. I have said in several other post i agree with point regarding crime etc, Regarding the taxation point i was trying to point out times are changing and the age old saying of well smokers pay enough in is a point on the down turn,

Keep trying with the quitting, its on your mind and you will get there one day


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I cant say anything, I am just passing on info I have been given by people who make a living studying figures and predicting future trends!


Ask those people if the have the very same figures for Sweden. Harm reduction was embraced there and it's really quite enlightening.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

havoc said:


> Ask those people if the have the very same figures for Sweden. Harm reduction was embraced there and it's really quite enlightening.


I dont really ask these people a great deal. I attend these sessions as mandatory 3 yearly updates my main concern is staying awake


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Nah wouldnt ban smoking.
Look at the war on drugs and all the cartels brought to power because of the black market.
:thumbsup:


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> im not saying you are wrong. I am saying from personal experience I would like to see it banned. I have said in several other post i agree with point regarding crime etc, Regarding the taxation point i was trying to point out times are changing and the age old saying of well smokers pay enough in is a point on the down turn,
> 
> Keep trying with the quitting, its on your mind and you will get there one day


i guess you are right, that if the number of smokers continues to fall there will be a period of time where the costs of treating the older generation of smokers outweighs the revenue generated by tax, but this period will not last forever and eventually the numbers will stabalise to once again be profitable.

Aye i'll keep trying and failing  i bought one of those e-cig things, tend to use it only when i run out of cigs though :/


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

porps said:


> i guess you are right, that if the number of smokers continues to fall there will be a period of time where the costs of treating the older generation of smokers outweighs the revenue generated by tax, but this period will not last forever and eventually the numbers will stabalise to once again be profitable.
> 
> Aye i'll keep trying and failing  i bought one of those e-cig things, tend to use it only when i run out of cigs though :/


yeah eventually it would, banning smoking wouldnt work, the figures need to continue to reduce themselves. I would be happy if everyone stopped though.

keep trying you will get there, have you tried champix? i hear somepeople have good feedback from this


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> yeah eventually it would, banning smoking wouldnt work, the figures need to continue to reduce themselves. I would be happy if everyone stopped though.
> 
> keep trying you will get there, have you tried champix? i hear somepeople have good feedback from this


nope not tried it, i've heard good things about it too but am wary of asking for it as im only trying to give up tobacco, not smoking.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

porps said:


> nope not tried it, i've heard good things about it too but am wary of asking for it as im only trying to give up tobacco, not smoking.


Ah, i see. Have visited New Leaf? they can give you advice, if your thinking about it, its worth looking into.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

porps said:


> nope not tried it, i've heard good things about it too but am wary of asking for it as im only trying to give up tobacco, *not smoking*.


*snigger*


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> Ah, i see. Have visited New Leaf? they can give you advice, if your thinking about it, its worth looking into.


no i havent. Theres a stop-smoking-nurse at my doctors though, she comes in once a week.. Last time i REALLY tried i went a full 6 weeks without smoking tobacco (using lozenges and patches and some willpower) but then i went out in town one night, we got a lock in at a bar we frequent and then ashtrays were produced since it was now a private function. In my drunk state i thought "half a cig cant hurt". And that was that. It didnt even taste nice, i thought how could i ever have enjoyed these foul tasting things, but was back to fully smoking within a week.

Sadly i suspect i'll put off giving up untill new year now, then try again, but when i do i'll ask about champix.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

porps said:


> no i havent. Theres a stop-smoking-nurse at my doctors though, she comes in once a week.. Last time i REALLY tried i went a full 6 weeks without smoking tobacco (using lozenges and patches and some willpower) but then i went out in town one night, we got a lock in at a bar we frequent and then ashtrays were produced since it was now a private function. In my drunk state i thought "half a cig cant hurt". And that was that. It didnt even taste nice, i thought how could i ever have enjoyed these foul tasting things, but was back to fully smoking within a week.
> 
> Sadly i suspect i'll put off giving up untill new year now, then try again, but when i do i'll ask about champix.


I have a friend who can socially smoke! She only goes out once a month and will buy 10 **** for a night out and thats it. If I could do that I would, as the amount is very minimal and the risk low. I know if I had one I could start again particularly when drinking. However I have been stopped 6 years now so I dont want to relapse but once a smoker its always easy to get caught up again. I have dreamed about smoking recently but I think that was because of work(health promotion is a main topic, we are pushed to talk to people about smoking, drinking and weight, I find it hard).

I have enjoyed this thread, its been an unspoiled good debate


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

ClaireLouise said:


> I have been stopped 6 years now
> 
> congrats!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Spirited said:


> ClaireLouise said:
> 
> 
> > I have been stopped 6 years now
> ...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Nope, I would not ban it completely. But would not allow it anywhere except within your own four walls, but that would be complicated where there are children


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Haven't read all the thread but think the idea of banning smoking in public outdoor places is ridiculous and the idea of an outright ban even moreso.

I don't smoke nowadays but still get annoyed by the attitude of many non-smokers...the way smokers are treated as social lepers ...the way non-smokers completely overreact to the slightest whiff of smoke as if taking two breaths of it causes instant lung cancer...the way they have absolutely no compassion or understanding or tolerance at all for smokers who, ultimately are addicted to one of the most addictive substances known to man.

I know many smokers will say they "enjoy" a smoke and have no desire to stop but I really don't believe anyone genuinely _chooses_ to pay through the nose to watch pounds and pounds of their money literally going up in smoke and potentially ruining their health. It has no point other than to satisfy an addiction. I'm sure 99% of smokers given a choice would never have smoked that first cigarette.

To want people banned from smoking in open places when smoking has already been banned in virtually every other public place it was once allowed in just smacks of control-freakery. If a total ban was enforced i think i'd have to start smoking again just to piss off the "you smoke I choke" brigade as much as i could.

There are things i find far more offensive...the godawful spelling & grammar in the first few pages of this thread for one thing...


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

chichi said:


> Yes of course its addictive..people would hardly spend pounds upon pounds out of pure choice but not on the level of heroin..nothing near from what I have seen on tv and the likes.


It's not actually the physical side of quitting that's the hard bit...
To say nicotine is addictive but "not on the level of heroin" shows you have little understanding of how deeply ingrained smoking is on a subconscious, psychological level. Nicotine addiction is compared with heroin addiction because of this aspect to the addiction which is the hardest bit to overcome and not because of any physical effects.

The physical traces of nicotine take a very short time to leave the body after quitting...from just a couple of days in some people to a couple of months maximum. The physical addiction is gone very quickly. And yet we have people who still crave cigarettes 15 years after they last smoked one. The subconscious mind takes much much longer to forget a habit, hence the emotional / psychological torture that is usually involved and the high rate of relapse.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Wish I could remember the article by a specialist on addiction. There are apparently very few substances which create both dependency and true addiction. Cigarettes are up there.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Tinder said:


> It's not actually the physical side of quitting that's the hard bit...
> To say nicotine is addictive but "not on the level of heroin" shows you have little understanding of how deeply ingrained smoking is on a subconscious, psychological level. Nicotine addiction is compared with heroin addiction because of this aspect to the addiction which is the hardest bit to overcome and not because of any physical effects.
> 
> The physical traces of nicotine take a very short time to leave the body after quitting...from just a couple of days in some people to a couple of months maximum. The physical addiction is gone very quickly. And yet we have people who still crave cigarettes 15 years after they last smoked one. The subconscious mind takes much much longer to forget a habit, hence the emotional / psychological torture that is usually involved and the high rate of relapse.


Oh beg your pardon...sorry for my "little understanding" but the fact that heroin addicts need professional help to give up that addiction as opposed to nicotine addicts who can do it at home with the help of patches..gum etc or purely by cutting out smoking kind of shows that heroin and nicotine addictions ARENT quite on the same level.

I have heard of many instances where heroin addicts have mugged or stolen their families precious jewellery to get a fix..havent heard anything quite so dramatic about someone needing a packet of cigarettes.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I wish people would stop criticising non smokers attitudes! It at least say SOME non smokers!!

I am a non smoker, won't stand downwind of a cig if I can help it and generally find the smell disgusting. But I am on your side  

I have NEVER chastised a smoker for smoking, and never will. Unless they are being particularly anal themselves (recently we have had complaints about the wording of our non smoking signs at work, on a technicality issue from some hardcore smokers who feel they should be allowed to smoke on ANY open space in the building, we have courtyards etc... They even broke onto the roof area which is designated an engineer's plantroom! Authorised use only... Rather than go downstairs and out the building)


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

I hate it when I have to go through smokers who are using the doorway to shelter whilst smoking. Ugh! 

I personally think education and more education is the way forward to reducing new smokers, and that will bring about a change in culture. 

Unwelcome though it may be, this is what we see in the health services. 
Roughly half of all smokers will die prematurely from a smoking related disease. In that disease bracket we have to list cancers - most types, not just lung cancer - heart disease, diabetes (if the smoker has diabetes and they smoke then might as well write out death cert :scared, other vascular diseases - strokes, and lung diseases - asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Additionally, smoking reduces the absorption of vitamins, and reduces your immune system. Then there is peripheral vascular disease - basically the arteries furr up in your legs and you cant walk or sleep in bed because of excruciating pain. Arterial leg ulcers usually develop - and dont heal, causing more pain. However, there is always the last resort - amputation. I have seen so much of this.

Now- although a nurse, and some might say I am just using scare mongering tactics, perhaps you are right, but here are some more facts closer to (my) home: Out of my family of smokers, mum, dad, nan, brother. Nan developed breast cancer and then heart failure, and died prematurely. My dad died prematurely after a heart attack - funnily enough whilst walking his dog. My brother - my twin - developed atrial fibrillation in April. He spent week in hospital while they were trying to get his heart rate down. He is 52. Come home on warfarin - due to his now risk of stroke - and also on digoxin and bisoprolol medication. It doesnt stop there. He has had to stay off sick from work until he has his catheter ablation procedure to help stop the A.F. Fortunately, he gave up smoking for New Year, so I am hopeful that he can prevent further damage and resume an active life. I say active because currently he is exhausted all the time. His blood pressure is in his boots and his A.F. goes manic if he has mild walk. :scared:

So, if I have scared or p*&sed everyone off then I am sorry if it has offended anyone, but I do hope it triggers some of you smokers to try to give up.

To those planning to wait until the New Year, please dont. Just wait for a New Day, and keep trying. The medical slant is that the more attempts you make to stop, the more likely you are to succeed.

Edited to say, mum still alive. No evidence of smoking related conditions so far- she is 79 and gave up when she was 48


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

I think most smokers are aware of the risks now even if they were not when they started smoking. People do seem to assume that all smokers must be ignorant of the facts. 
Why do non smoking people feel the need to continually preach on the subject of smoking. Outside in the open smoking a cigarette is not going to harm anyone and bbq smoke wafting across the fence or street, or smoke from a chimney because someone must now have the latest log burner,or the fire pit in the garden or allotment are far more annoying because those fumes do end off in your house if your windows are open or make your washing smell if you have it hanging outside on the line.
The streets are full of pizza boxes,chip wrappers,sweet papers or even needles from drug addicts and a whole host of other things but it is only a discarded cigarette end that causes concern.
Some people smoke, some don't, there are far worse things going on in this world but smoking always seems to come up as a major concern.
I do understand why people don't like smoking and there points about long term effects on health,at the same time it just seems that being dictated to and preached at is very tiring and the holier than thou attitude that goes with it by some is even more annoying.
This post isn't directed at anyone,its just my feelings in general, I find no one more annoying than my own mothers on the subject of smoking,she's an ex smoker and I find they can be worse sometimes.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I think some have overlooked the fact, that those who did smoke but have given up, can still die of smoke related illnesses. Do we then moan about what they will cost the NHS?*


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

As I said, if you found my post offensive then I am sorry. Incidently, my opening line about disliking walking through a cloud of smoke in door ways is nothing to do with health. It is purely horrible to experience as a non smoker, and unless I climb through a window I have no option but to experience it. 

My post wasnt a dig at smokers, it was a plea from the heart, from a health professional of some 30 years who has seen the real impact it has on individuals - sod the budget - I'm only interested in individuals. The close to home message is devastating to me. Death or illhealth from smoking affects families too.

I consider myself extremely lucky, not holier than thou, for having remained a non smoker all my life.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

skip said:


> The streets are full of pizza boxes,chip wrappers,sweet papers or even needles from drug addicts and a whole host of other things but it is only a discarded cigarette end that causes concern.
> Some people smoke, some don't, there are far worse things going on in this world but smoking always seems to come up as a major concern.


*** butts really get on my tits. we are forever finding butts and boxes on the roof. The roof is a workplace for myself, my team and my engineers yet people seem to consider it ok to leave their crap in it. Its not a smoking area, so there are no bins, so why do smokers continually insist on going there.

I'm sure they wouldn't like it if I came atey lunch on their desk and left all my rubbish there.... As it is authorised access only, there are no cleaners in the area, my engineers have to waste their time tidying up someone elses rubbish.

That is my one major gripe with smokers, sometimes their habit is totally selfish and inconsiderate of others.


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

grumpy goby said:


> *** butts really get on my tits. we are forever finding butts and boxes on the roof. The roof is a workplace for myself, my team and my engineers yet people seem to consider it ok to leave their crap in it. Its not a smoking area, so there are no bins, so why do smokers continually insist on going there.
> 
> I'm sure they wouldn't like it if I came atey lunch on their desk and left all my rubbish there....
> 
> _Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


*** butts annoy me too but to be honest all rubbish on the ground annoys me especially chewing gum and dog waste which are very often trodden into peoples homes.
I always carry a portable ashtray with me and put any wrappers etc in my bag for that reason but not everyone is that considerate.


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

nutty said:


> As I said, if you found my post offensive then I am sorry. Incidently, my opening line about disliking walking through a cloud of smoke in door ways is nothing to do with health. It is purely horrible to experience as a non smoker, and unless I climb through a window I have no option but to experience it.
> 
> My post wasnt a dig at smokers, it was a plea from the heart, from a health professional of some 30 years who has seen the real impact it has on individuals - sod the budget - I'm only interested in individuals. The close to home message is devastating to me. Death or illhealth from smoking affects families too.
> 
> I consider myself extremely lucky, not holier than thou, for having remained a non smoker all my life.


I didn't find your post offensive which is why I said it was not directed at anyone and why I also mentioned my own mother. My post is just how I feel in general and I do respect your right to your opinion.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

skip said:


> *** butts annoy me too but to be honest all rubbish on the ground annoys me especially chewing gum and dog waste which are very often trodden into peoples homes.
> I always carry a portable ashtray with me and put any wrappers etc in my bag for that reason but not everyone is that considerate.


yeh true, but gum doesnt start bush fires when flicked out a car window.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

nutty said:


> I hate it when I have to go through smokers who are using the doorway to shelter whilst smoking. Ugh!
> 
> I personally think education and more education is the way forward to reducing new smokers, and that will bring about a change in culture.
> 
> ...


I don't think any reasonable person would find another person's opinion offensive, it is when they continually preach and pull faces when smokers are across the road minding their own business that I think it is going too far.

I doubt there is a smoker in the world who does not know perfectly well the dangers of smoking, whether they admit to it or not, so all the preaching in the world will not change them - they already know. People need a good reason to give up, not some possible health outcome. I say possible because we all know people who have got to ninety and still smoke quite happily. Not everyone who smokes is going to die of smoking related illnesses so we can always tell ourselves that it doesn't apply to us.

Everyone is different. I gave almost a year ago purely because of the cost. Since them I have had cold after cold, mouth ulcers, sore throats and I keep falling asleep. I felt a lot healthier when I smoked.

But I can't see me going back to it because I cannot now be near anyone who has smoked; it makes me choke. However, I have a friend who gave up about five years ago and if he sees someone smoking in the street, he is likely to follow them to get a whiff!

I am glad I have given up and I can't see me going back, but I think people should keep their preaching to themselves.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Isnt this animal cruelty?....

Garfield is an older boy and tiny! He was in an awful state and obviously lived with a smoker - the smell of nicotine was appalling. 2 baths and the water running yellow - YUK!

Heathlands Animal Sanctuary, Royston


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> Isnt this animal cruelty?....
> 
> Garfield is an older boy and tiny! He was in an awful state and obviously lived with a smoker - the smell of nicotine was appalling. 2 baths and the water running yellow - YUK!
> 
> Heathlands Animal Sanctuary, Royston


Yes but the cruelty lies with the owner neglecting the dog ie not washing/bathing the dog ...not all people who smoke neglect their pets


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes but the cruelty lies with the owner neglecting the dog ie not washing/bathing the dog ...not all people who smoke neglect their pets


Not all smokers smoke near the animals either.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Can Isay something rather unpopular:
the abuse not the use is a real problem...
like with alcohol \: an oddm pint not going to kill you...smoking one or two now and then : say packet a month will do do much ahrm either..
smoking packet a day is like drinking bottle of vodka a day..
those who abuse cause problems which affect those who do not...


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes but the cruelty lies with the owner neglecting the dog ie not washing/bathing the dog ...not all people who smoke neglect their pets


/agreed

I was a smoker at the time I had a beautiful border collie, he never ever smelt of ciggy smoke - my daugther a non-smoker will vouch for this - he always seemed to smell of talcum powder, though I never used this when grooming him, which was strange. He only ever had a bath before we went away on the narrowboats for our hols. He certainly wasnt neglected - check my album out in my profile.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Not all smokers smoke near the animals either.


like the ones i see in cars smoking with windows shut and dogs in the back of the car?


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Not all smokers smoke near the animals either.


I wonder how many members here that smoke would even admit to smoking with their pets in the same room.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> like the ones i see in cars smoking with windows shut and dogs in the back of the car?


But that is some not ALL ....animal cruelty comes in all forms from all sorts of people - and is INTENDED - like any abuse

A person who loves their dog and overfeeds him/her to the point that the dog cannot walk properly could be classed the same - although they do not intend any real harm.....it is still cruelty but not on purpose


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cheekyscrip said:


> Can Isay something rather unpopular:
> the abuse not the use is a real problem...
> like with alcohol \: an oddm pint not going to kill you...smoking one or two now and then : say packet a month will do do much ahrm either..
> smoking packet a day is like drinking bottle of vodka a day..
> those who abuse cause problems who do not...


And a lot of smokers can do that, but I cannot. I have a very addictive personality, anything new and I will make the most of it. It would start off as one a day and by the end of the week the whole lot would be gone. I used to have a friend who only smoked at Christmas and bank holidays - never knew how she did it.



Colliebarmy said:


> like the ones i see in cars smoking with windows shut and dogs in the back of the car?


I said not all, not none. The problem with self righteous "I don't smoke, aren't I wonderful" types is that they will tar everyone with the same brush. If I see someone enjoying a glass of whisky, I don't assume he is going to get behind the wheel of his car or roll down the road Brahms and Lizst. But it is assumed that all smokers behave the same.

When I smoked, I would never do so in a crowd, I would never smoke in the car with the windows closed (that's awful for the smoker as well) I never smoked in people's houses where they don't smoke. I was considerate, just as most smokers are, yet you see one being a pratt and you think everyone is the same.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

I dont care who does what TO THEMSELVES, when they impact on others its a problem...


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes but the cruelty lies with the owner neglecting the dog ie not washing/bathing the dog ...not all people who smoke neglect their pets


the dogs outside was nicotine stained and yellow

what was its lungs like?

bathing wouldnt remove that


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> I wonder how many members here that smoke would even admit to smoking with their pets in the same room.


I'll admit I used to smoke when my pet was in the same room and my children too, I wouldn't dream of doing that now as I am aware of the effects smoking can have on people/animals.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> I wonder how many members here that smoke would even admit to smoking with their pets in the same room.


I have in the past ( im a no smoker now) but my OH does too not right in his face though - he is mostly lying down in his bed or on the rug - the cat that is lol - when he is in the front room - he is mostly in the boys bedroom which is a no smoking zone as my OH NEVER smokes in front of the children


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> I dont care who does what TO THEMSELVES, when they impact on others its a problem...


Yes but that could be said for many things .....

Look at Alchohol IMO that is FAR more dangerous and has a much larger impact on others ....

Tbo you are being quite ridiculous because in life SOMETHING WILL ALWAYS IMPACT ANOTHER IN SOME WAY


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Waterlily said:


> yeh true, but gum doesnt start bush fires when flicked out a car window.


Really why do people do this? It's disgusting. Makes me wonder if they just throw cigarette butts, candy wrappers and such on the floor of their home. It's inconsiderate and reckless and only shows what ignorant selfish pigs they are.

I was realizing last night how nice it is living in a state where smoking is banned in public places. I can go to a pub an not have to take a shower and wash my hair and clothes when I get home.

Remember the days when smoking was allowed on airlines? I used to travel extensively for my job during those days and it was awful being in a middle seat with smokers on both sides if you didn't get a non smoking seat. Even in the non-smoking section you couldn't escape it. :sad:


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Toby Tyler said:


> I can go to a pub an not have to take a shower and wash my hair and clothes when I get home.


Thats another thing that pees me off, having to wash clothes and hair just cos someone smokes in your face.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I would much rather someone throw a ciggy butt than spit/hock up in the street .....do these people do that in their own home??


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

i really dont know where you lot find all these people who "smoke in your face" or breath their smoke in peoples faces or whatever. I certainly dont know anyone like that and i know plenty of smokers. But hey, if one smoker breathes smoke in your face that must mean that all smokers breathe smoke in peoples faces at every opportunity? If a smoker flicks a butt out of a window and starts a bush fire that must be what all smokers do....
Just like if a person drives irresponsibly that must mean all drivers are irresponsible... right? Good logic!

as for the person who has "no choice" but to walk past smokers smoking in a doorway - have you ever tried saying "excuse me?" or do you just prefer to push your way past then moan about how you had no choice?

PS - i smoke in the house and i have pets.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

porps said:


> i really dont know where you lot find all these people who "smoke in your face" or breath their smoke in peoples faces or whatever. I certainly dont know anyone like that and i know plenty of smokers. But hey, if one smoker breathes smoke in your face that must mean that all smokers breathe smoke in peoples faces at every opportunity? If a smoker flicks a butt out of a window and starts a bush fire that must be what all smokers do....
> Just like if a person drives irresponsibly that must mean all drivers are irresponsible... right? Good logic!
> 
> as for the person who has "no choice" but to walk past smokers smoking in a doorway - have you ever tried saying "excuse me?" or do you just prefer to push your way past then moan about how you had no choice?


I agree! When I used to smoke I would not dream of blowing smoke in someones face!!! - talk about bloody pedantic - and who goes home and washes and showers because someone blew smoke in your face??

End of the day there are some selfish smokers but there also some selfish people who have other nasty habits too ... thats life !


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> I agree! When I used to smoke I would not dream of blowing smoke in someones face!!! - talk about bloody pedantic - and who goes home and washes and showers because someone blew smoke in your face??
> 
> End of the day there are some selfish smokers but there also some selfish people who have other nasty habits too ... thats life !


Yea it is life, sad world tho when people get defensive for something so disgusting. If you like smelling like nicotine thats your prerogative its why does it seem to offend you so much that someone wants to not smell like smoke? and I dont recall saying ALL bloody smokers do it.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

There are always a gang of mothers having their mothers meeting at the school gates and down the street so you have to walk in the road to get the kids into school...they all smoke and its like walking through smog! I hate it! Smoking should be banned on school grounds and around school grounds imo bloody disgusting!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> Yea it is life, sad world tho when people get defensive for something so disgusting. and I dont recall saying ALL bloody smokers do it.


Im not getting defensive - it is a horrible addiction but there are far worse addictions out there IMO that really do have a detrimental affect on others -like being beat to a pulp by a partner who drinks a bottle of jd every night and then kicks three shits of his mrs whilst his kids look on - or a kid being taken away from its mother cos she is hooked on crack and left her alone in the house......blowing smoke in someones face pales in comparison IMO .....

and there is no need to swear


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> - and who goes home and washes and showers because someone blew smoke in your face??


That's an exaggeration. Yes, I've had to shower after being in an enclosed space that was saturated with cigarette smoke. Cigarette smokers get used to the stench of their own hair and clothes. And it does seem like a fair number of cigarette smokers are inconsiderate. Not saying all smokers. But many of those who partake do have some disgusting behaviours that go along with their disgusting habit.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> Im not getting defensive - it is a horrible addiction but there are far worse addictions out there IMO that really do have a detrimental affect on others -like being beat to a pulp by a partner who drinks a bottle of jd every night and then kicks three shits of his mrs whilst his kids look on - or a kid being taken away from its mother cos she is hooked on crack and left her alone in the house......blowing smoke in someones face pales in comparison IMO .....


But regardless of it comparitable severity, its still grossly inconsiderate.
I find most smokers relativly considerate in that they wont blow smoke AT you - but if people do then the non smoker should be able to say "dont do that, it makes me feel sick!" without being jumped on for being pedantic. It IS very unpleasant for non smokers to breath smoke.

Its like punching someone in the face, and saying "well its pale in comparison to me stabbing you" as a defence...

ETA I used to have to wash EVERYTHING after nights out with smokers when it was allowed in pubs. I could smell it on EVERYTHING...even being over a smokers house for a few hrs. I can smell it on other people who just nip out for a quick ciggy break at work.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Im not getting defensive - it is a horrible addiction but there are far worse addictions out there IMO that really do have a detrimental affect on others -like being beat to a pulp by a partner who drinks a bottle of jd every night and then kicks three shits of his mrs whilst his kids look on - or a kid being taken away from its mother cos she is hooked on crack and left her alone in the house......blowing smoke in someones face pales in comparison IMO .....


No sh*t theres other addictions but this thread was about smoking was it not??


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Ok I would ban everything, any freedom of choice whatsoever for the individual is removed. I would make everyone live in institutions where everything you eat or drink is strictly controlled, what you wear, what you read what you think. Everyone would work for the state, no one would be paid of course because all your needs would be taken care of - you would just have no choice on any aspect of your life. Then we will all be the same and will all be happy and contented and live for ever.

Yes I smoke in my house and have a dog, I have a big house so there is no need to smoke in his face - last time I looked he was still a white dog and not nicotine coloured. Majority of the rooms are painted a creamy white colour too and are still that colour  and the fish tank is still full of fish that swim around and not either dead or gasping at the top because of the smoke :thumbsup:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

grumpy goby said:


> But regardless of it comparitable severity, its still grossly inconsiderate.
> I find most smokers relativly considerate in that they wont blow smoke AT you - but if people do then the non smoker should be able to say "dont do that, it makes me feel sick!" without being jumped on for being pedantic. It IS very unpleasant for non smokers to breath smoke.
> 
> Its like punching someone in the face, and saying "well its pale in comparison to me stabbing you" as a defence...
> ...


I get all that - im an ex smoker and I also used to work in bars/restaurants - i would go home stinking at night - I just think some people are being slightly hysterical in what they say smokers do

And IMO it does pale in comparison


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> No sh*t theres other addictions but this thread was about smoking was it not??


Yes but in talking about smoking as an addiction other substances are bound to come into the debate as a comparison

I personally dont like people coming on here saying all smokers are dirty nasty people who are abusing their pets !!! bloody ridiculous !! and rather pretentous too


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> I get all that - im an ex smoker and I also used to work in bars/restaurants - i would go home stinking at night - I just think some people are being slightly hysterical in what they say smokers do
> 
> And IMO it does pale in comparison


The only argument _for_ it is to bring _other_ issues up, funny that. A good chunk of the population smokes its not_ Hysterical_ to be fed up with smelling it, smelling like it if out around it for a while.  Its also funny that the OP in her old acc left over a cig butt comment on another thread, smells like baiting to me aye broadicea?


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> I get all that - im an ex smoker and I also used to work in bars/restaurants - i would go home stinking at night - I just think some people are being slightly hysterical in what they say smokers do
> 
> And IMO it does pale in comparison


Yes it does. But does that make it OK to be inconsiderate?

As I have said I wouldnt ban it. But i do encourage consideration for other people. And "it could be worse" isnt a defense for being inconsiderate.

Its not ok to makes someone else uncomfortable for your habit, just cos at least your not a crack addict.

Its not ok to punch someone in the face, cos at least you didnt stab them.

Its not OK to steal someones car, cos at least you didnt Kidnap their child.....

There is always something that will make ANY inconsiderate, selfish, action pale in comparison. Doesnt make it right, or acceptable.

I find most smokers to be relativly considerate of non smokers. Generally I have no gripe. But there are some very selfish inconsiderate people who think the world should bow to their desires, and there is no excuse for that attitude. And i begrudge having to waste my engineers time cleaning up inconsiderate smokers *** butts on a daily basis


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes but in talking about smoking as an addiction other substances are bound to come into the debate as a comparison
> 
> I personally dont like people coming on here saying *all *smokers are dirty nasty people who are abusing their pets !!! bloody ridiculous !! and rather pretentous too


Suzy thats bulcrap I never once said that. Quote me where I did.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Toby Tyler said:


> But many of those who partake do have some disgusting behaviours that go along with their disgusting habit.


many who dont smoke also have disgusting behaviour, what's your point? that some people have disgusting behaviour? Or that disgusting behaviour is not directly related to smoking?

Either way i think we agree.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I believe its boadicea. Rather immature to think i created this thread in hopes an argument would ensure. The only one who appears to be looking for an argument is you with your swearing. Kindly don't bring me involved because you don't like what someone is saying to you.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Blackcats said:


> I believe its boadicea. Rather immature to think i created this thread in hopes an argument would ensure. The only one who appears to be looking for an argument is you with your swearing. Kindly don't bring me involved because you don't like what someone is saying to you.


The innocent act doesnt suit you, people see straight thru it. But carry on.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> The only argument _for_ it is to bring _other_ issues up, funny that. A good chunk of the population smokes its not_ Hysterical_ to be fed up with smelling it, smelling like it if out around it for a while.  Its also funny that the OP in her old acc left over a cig butt comment on another thread, smells like baiting to me aye broadicea?


No its not the only argument left - I have not said that some smokers are inconsiderate but I think they are few and far between and im talking from my own experience - most smokers I know do their utmost to keep the smoke away from you and be considerate - the way you lot are talking everyone who smokes is going round blowing directly into your face which is bullcrap imo -

Im baiting no one just giving my opinion - kust like you


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> Suzy thats bulcrap I never once said that. Quote me where I did.


Did I say YOU????


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

i dont blow my smoke in peoples faces simply because i begrudge them getting a freebie when it costs me so bloody much to buy it.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> No its not the only argument left - I have not said that some smokers are inconsiderate but I think they are few and far between and im talking from my own experience - most smokers I know do their utmost to keep the smoke away from you and be considerate - the way you lot are talking everyone who smokes is going round blowing directly into your face which is bullcrap imo -
> 
> Im baiting no one just giving my opinion - kust like you


No suzy you arent baiting, but black was here as boadicea and her last posts were bragging about tossing butts out her car window and getting pissy cos members said she was vile for it... so yea ironic this thread is started in her new acc dont you think.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Waterlily said:


> The innocent act doesnt suit you, people see straight thru it. But carry on.


uh-huh. Keep stirring that pot. I don't really give a damn what you think. Think i started this thread for an argument by all means. You saying that is like looking for one.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

porps said:


> i dont blow my smoke in peoples faces simply because i begrudge them getting a freebie when it costs me so bloody much to buy it.


oh my you swore same word as me so you must be causing an argument  oh so I see suzy said the same word in her posts, amusing tho it was me black singled out for it ...


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Waterlily said:


> No suzy you arent baiting, but black was here as boadicea and her last posts were bragging about tossing butts out her car window and getting pissy cos members said she was vile for it... so yea ironic this thread is started in her new acc dont you think.


bragging. Oh, i see what this is. Yeah, i was on here before. Big deal. I never bragged so don't bull to cause an argument. And i didn't leave because of your comments. Get over it.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> oh my you swore same word as me so you must be causing an argument  oh so I see suzy said the same word in her posts, amusing tho it was me black singled out for it ...


is bloody even a swear word? Besides, you're an aussie, i'd be slightly dissapointed if you didnt use a bit of colourful language here n there :lol: Put it down to cultural differences


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

grumpy goby said:


> Yes it does. But does that make it OK to be inconsiderate?
> 
> As I have said I wouldnt ban it. But i do encourage consideration for other people. And "it could be worse" isnt a defense for being inconsiderate.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of what you say - But we DO have to put things into perspective and IMO kidnapping a child is FAR WORSE than someone stealing a car - and someone blowing smoke in your face is LESS WORSE than beating up someone in a drunken rage - does not make any of them right!!! but perspective is needed


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> oh my you swore same word as me so you must be causing an argument  oh so I see suzy said the same word in her posts, amusing tho it was me black singled out for it ...


Well I used it cos it seems that others are its ok!!!


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Waterlily said:


> oh my you swore same word as me so you must be causing an argument  oh so I see suzy said the same word in her posts, amusing tho it was me black singled out for it ...


i don't see bloody as a swear word. I meant you saying the word ****.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Blackcats said:


> bragging. Oh, i see what this is. Yeah, i was on here before. Big deal. I never bragged so don't bull to cause an argument. And i didn't leave because of your comments. Get over it.


Are you foolish enough to think no one saw that thread? You dont like home truths, you get over it.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> I agree with most of what you say - But we DO have to put things into perspective and IMO kidnapping a child is FAR WORSE than someone stealing a car - and someone blowing smoke in your face is LESS WORSE than beating up someone in a drunken rage - does not make any of them right!!! but perspective is needed


But if someone is totlayy inconsiderate of you and making you feel uncomfortable do you think "OH WELL at least they arent stabbing with the heroin needle!" No, you think "thats a bit rude! what a selfish arse"

My point is its not a defence. I dont see why thats a difficult concept to grasp? 
Rudeness is rudeness, its unacceptable, and comparison isnt a factor. There is no excuse.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Well I do have the power and it is banned in my lodging business. TBH, I would rather not have smokers stay as guests at all but they are allowed to smoke outside on the property provided they contain the cigarette butts and dispose of them properly in the outdoor bins. 

Even cleaning a cabin after a smoker has stayed and not even smoked inside reminds me how much these folk stink. The pillows need extra airing out and the shower smells like cigarette smoke. It permeates everything. 

Fortunately most people respect and actually tell me how much they appreciate the non smoking policy. Surprisingly, even smokers say they don't want to stay in a place that smells like an ashtray. 

There is a hefty cleaning fee if someone does decide to smoke inside. I've only had to charge it once in almost 10 years. They thought because of the fireplace I wouldn't smell it.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> No suzy you arent baiting, but black was here as boadicea and her last posts were bragging about tossing butts out her car window and getting pissy cos members said she was vile for it... so yea ironic this thread is started in her new acc dont you think.


I know she was a previous member ...its not a crime ....- and if she tossed butts out so what?? I personally wouldnt do that but to call her vile ?? and then harrass her so she leaves which is what some members have done ?? and when she comes back is plauged by a group leaving her red rep?? tad extreme if you ask me -


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

i dont smoke. dont particually like the habit, hate the smell. 

it affects my asthma, people who smoke choose too, i didnt choose my asthma. 

aslong as people dont blow it in my face and do it in a heavy populated area i dont mind whatsoever. 

im glad they banned it in restaurants and pubs. but anywhere else is really up to the person. although i do think aswell that smoking shouldnt be allowed when in the same room etc as children and pets. but no law will be able to enforce this, so no point in banning it. 

my hubby smokes and i wont allow it in the flat with me and the rats, he smokes in his car.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Toby Tyler said:


> Well I do have the power and it is banned in my lodging business. TBH, I would rather not have smokers stay as guests at all but they are allowed to smoke outside on the property provided they contain the cigarette butts and dispose of them properly in the outdoor bins.
> 
> Even cleaning a cabin after a smoker has stayed and not even smoked inside reminds me how much these folk stink. The pillows need extra airing out and the shower smells like cigarette smoke. It permeates everything.
> 
> ...


so what you are saying is that in 10 years you have only had to deal with one inconsiderate smoker? Hardly seems like such a big problem when you put it like that.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> *Ok I would ban everything, any freedom of choice whatsoever for the individual is removed. I would make everyone live in institutions where everything you eat or drink is strictly controlled, what you wear, what you read what you think. Everyone would work for the state, no one would be paid of course because all your needs would be taken care of - you would just have no choice on any aspect of your life. Then we will all be the same and will all be happy and contented and live for ever.*
> Yes I smoke in my house and have a dog, I have a big house so there is no need to smoke in his face - last time I looked he was still a white dog and not nicotine coloured. Majority of the rooms are painted a creamy white colour too and are still that colour  and the fish tank is still full of fish that swim around and not either dead or gasping at the top because of the smoke :thumbsup:


I think that was all tried in Soviet Russia - No wonder smoking has always been so popular there


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

porps said:


> so what you are saying is that in 10 years you have only had to deal with one inconsiderate smoker? Hardly seems like such a big problem when you put it like that.


TBH I cater to non smokers which is most of my clientele. And there are still plenty of inconsiderate smokers, they just don't want to pay the huge cleaning fee if they smoke inside. But I still have to pick up disgusting cigarette butts off the forest floor, which is outrageous.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Can we keep this thread civil please. Discussing rep is against the rules as most of you know, and I don't have time right now to go through the whole thread.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

grumpy goby said:


> But if someone is totlayy inconsiderate of you and making you feel uncomfortable do you think "OH WELL at least they arent stabbing with the heroin needle!" No, you think "thats a bit rude! what a selfish arse"
> 
> My point is its not a defence. I dont see why thats a difficult concept to grasp?
> Rudeness is rudeness, its unacceptable, and comparison isnt a factor. There is no excuse.


Yes but lots of people are inconsiderate not just smokers


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Im sat on the bus right now ....next to me is a young girl with her headphones on music blasting ...a bloke behind me stinks of sweat ...another person is chewing gum incessantly ....all annoying habits that are inconsiderate of others ....but i will be off the bus sion so in the grand scheme of things it aint that bad.my point being we all hav shite to put up with


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Toby Tyler said:


> TBH I cater to non smokers which is most of my clientele. And there are still plenty of inconsiderate smokers, they just don't want to pay the huge cleaning fee if they smoke inside. But I still have to pick up disgusting cigarette butts off the forest floor, which is outrageous.


I can't remember the last time I visited the United States and smoking was allowed inside the buildings. It was taboo there long before it was here, then they progressed to having only certain areas outside too. It is a long time since I have been to Europe, but I believe it is still very much accepted there. Of course, I could be out of date, I usually am.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Toby Tyler said:


> TBH I cater to non smokers which is most of my clientele. And there are still plenty of inconsiderate smokers, they just don't want to pay the huge cleaning fee if they smoke inside. But I still have to pick up disgusting cigarette butts off the forest floor, which is outrageous.[/QUOTE
> How fortunate that u can pick n choose yr clients in a business


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

you don't seem to be grasping the concept of my argument and I am getting frustrated trying to explain so this is my last attempt.

NO inconsiderate action is acceptable. Everyone should be considerate of others. This is not an excuse to be knowingly inconsiderate. Nor is the fact there are worse things in life.

Its called manners.

A concept apparently long lost.

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> I can't remember the last time I visited the United States and smoking was allowed inside the buildings. It was taboo there long before it was here, then they progressed to having only certain areas outside too. It is a long time since I have been to Europe, but I believe it is still very much accepted there. * Of course, I could be out of date, I usually am*.


:lol: Me too!

I'm actually surprised at the extent it is banned here in my state of Colorado. People do get used to it and accept it as a part of living or visiting here. The ban has now been in effect for several years. The casinos were exempt at first but now every public place is non smoking. At the airport, which is huge and covers several miles, I believe there is only one smoking lounge and even that is being phased out.

Colorado is full of tree huggers and granola eaters which does help the cause I suppose. We are considered the healthiest state in the nation.

Recently they banned cigarette smoking in a nearby outdoor pedestrian mall with hefty fines for those who light up.  Most pubs do have an outdoor seating area where smoking is allowed however.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I have grasped yr concept ...maybe others on here shud when it comes to judging those that smoke ....

Im off now for dinner


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> I can't remember the last time I visited the United States and smoking was allowed inside the buildings. It was taboo there long before it was here, then they progressed to having only certain areas outside too. It is a long time since I have been to Europe, but I believe it is still very much accepted there. Of course, I could be out of date, I usually am.


Apparently smoking in public appears to be in force throughout most European countries. However, France, Italy, Greece and Spain appear to have laws regarding smoking in restaurants and bars but these appear to be flouted in most cases and are rarely enforced by law.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Apparently smoking in public appears to be in force throughout most European countries. However, France, Italy, Greece and Spain appear to have laws regarding smoking in restaurants and bars but these appear to be flouted in most cases and are rarely enforced by law.


they probably have better things to do... like catch real criminals for example.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

How fortunate that u can pick n choose yr clients in a business[/QUOTE

You better believe I pick and choose my clients.  Many customers return every year so I must be doing something right in that regard. Fortunately the kind of business I'm in affords me that luxury since there are plenty of people who seek out non-smoking lodging facilities.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Well this was a well balanced interesting debate yesterday. It certainly hasn't stayed that way


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

ClaireLouise said:


> Well this was a well balanced interesting debate yesterday. It certainly hasn't stayed that way


Deja vu


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

last warning to stay on topic I am not a thread babysitter but a moderator, if you can't stay on topic it will be closed with no further warnings...


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

He'll yes

It's disgusting and it stinks

And people who smoke stink


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## scosha37 (Feb 24, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> He'll yes
> 
> It's disgusting and it stinks
> 
> And people who smoke stink


:thumbsup:

My son was with his freinds last night 1st time in ages all them 14-16 years sitting on my step i looked out to say i havent seen them in ages ....bang 5 lite up :eek6: i went out and sent them out my garden Banned them! yes my son was not pleased when he came in he stank of smoke! :thumbdown: dose there parents allow them ? can they not smell is off there clothes? ect ect and where do they get there **** from shops? cheap ones from harry round the corner!


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

scosha37 said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> My son was with his freinds last night 1st time in ages all them 14-16 years sitting on my step i looked out to say i havent seen them in ages ....bang 5 lite up :eek6: i went out and sent them out my garden Banned them! yes my son was not pleased when he came in he stank of smoke! :thumbdown: dose there parents allow them ? can they not smell is off there clothes? ect ect and where do they get there **** from shops? cheap ones from harry round the corner!


This is why a ban wont ever work... People will do it whether they are meant to or not.

My OH tried his first cig at 13, and spliff at 14 - if a 13/14 yo can get hold of something they arent meant to have so can an adult with alot more money and means


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm an odd chicken in that I don't mind the smell of fresh *** smoke (I have followed people down the road or across a car park sniffing deeply) and I used to love the of a pub with stale smoke and warm rancid beer but the smell that lingers on clothes and in cars and houses makes me want to hurl, I often make my husband change when he's been to his parents or his mates that smoke and if I visit my in laws I change asap and spray perfume or dry shampoo in my hair to rid me of the stench of lingering stale smoke, I should also say that I am a reformed smoker so I may be more sensitive to it but smokers smell :blink:


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

I don't understand these discussions, sorry, maybe I'm being dense, but I don't get why it's such a big deal.

I don't like smoking, so I avoid people who smoke. It's not that hard... 
Why would I care if they choose to smoke or not? Their bodies, their money, their choice. 

If I owned a business, I have the choice of making it smoking or not, my business, my choice. 
If I'm going out to eat, I too can choose not to frequent a place where I have to smell smoke.

Besides, has banning anything ever worked out that well historically? 
If you want to encourage folks to be healthier, the effective approach is education, not restriction.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

It's hard to avoid them when they are every where! Cand avoi them walking down the street (smoke drifts) 

When they stand up wind at a bus stop like they always do

Or when they get on the bus/come into shops stinking the place out

Or when they sit next to you in the cinema


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ouesi said:


> I don't understand these discussions, sorry, maybe I'm being dense, but I don't get why it's such a big deal.
> 
> I don't like smoking, so I avoid people who smoke. It's not that hard...
> Why would I care if they choose to smoke or not? Their bodies, their money, their choice.
> ...


That is the discussion, though. A lot of us think like you - no skin off my nose, whereas some others want to inflict their views on everybody else. I don't understand why, when they don't think it is right to inflict their other views on everyone else.

We do have the added argument in the UK though that smoking related illness use up a lot of NHS money. However, most illness and accidents are self inflicted so I don't see why smokers should be the only ones to suffer. Obesity causes heart and blood pressure problems, stop them getting treatment. Sports injuries shouldn't be treated because it is self inflicted and nobody asked you to drive that car that crashed, so you will have to pay for that too. Not to mention booze, of course.


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> It's hard to avoid them when they are every where! Cand avoi them walking down the street (smoke drifts)
> 
> When they stand up wind at a bus stop like they always do
> 
> ...


But that's part and parcel in living with other humans isn't it? 
For some folks someone bathed in perfume is going to be just as nauseating as a heavy smoker. 
What about people who wear low cut tops or who's thong is sticking out the top of their pants?
What about body odor?
People who chew with their mouth open?

At some point you have to accept that if you spend time in the company of other humans, you're going to have your delicate sensibilities affected.

It's not a "right" to go to the cinema, if the cinema allows smoking, don't go if it bothers you that much. That's what movie rentals are for right? *shrug*


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> That is the discussion, though. A lot of us think like you - no skin off my nose, whereas some others want to inflict their views on everybody else. I don't understand why, when they don't think it is right to inflict their other views on everyone else.
> 
> We do have the added argument in the UK though that smoking related illness use up a lot of NHS money. However, most illness and accidents are self inflicted so I don't see why smokers should be the only ones to suffer. Obesity causes heart and blood pressure problems, stop them getting treatment. Sports injuries shouldn't be treated because it is self inflicted and nobody asked you to drive that car that crashed, so you will have to pay for that too. Not to mention booze, of course.


Doesnt the tax from **** basically cover the cost of smoking to the NHS? Or was that an urban myth I heard?


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> That is the discussion, though. A lot of us think like you - no skin off my nose, whereas some others want to inflict their views on everybody else. I don't understand why, when they don't think it is right to inflict their other views on everyone else.
> 
> We do have the added argument in the UK though that smoking related illness use up a lot of NHS money. However, most illness and accidents are self inflicted so I don't see why smokers should be the only ones to suffer. Obesity causes heart and blood pressure problems, stop them getting treatment. Sports injuries shouldn't be treated because it is self inflicted and nobody asked you to drive that car that crashed, so you will have to pay for that too. Not to mention booze, of course.


Well, yes there's that...
I'm all for taking responsibility for the choices you make.
However, if you're going to offer state health care, you have to offer it equally across the board. You're going to have a tough time figuring out who's more "deserving" in an equitable way.

If it's that big of a deal, tax the snot out of cigarrettes and booze. 
We tax lottery tickets like crazy and then put the money back in to our educational system. I'm okay with that.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ouesi said:


> It's not a "right" to go to the cinema, if the cinema allows smoking, don't go if it bothers you that much. That's what movie rentals are for right? *shrug*


The cinema doesn't allow smoking, I'm on about smokers who go in stinking the place out

Why should I miss out on going to the cinema because of people's dirty stinking habit?

If someone reeks of BO the place out they usually get slagged off yet it's perfectly ok to stink the place of smoke!

I probably wouldn't mind but it actually makes me ill (sinus infections)


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> Doesnt the tax from **** basically cover the cost of smoking to the NHS? Or was that an urban myth I heard?


And then some, according to this:



> Tobacco taxation amounts to £10.5
> billion per year whereas a figure for NHS spending on tobacco related disease is £1.7 billion.


Source: http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_218.pdf

Those are figures I've heard quoted elsewhere, too, but can't remember where.

There are other sources quoted at the bottom, if anyone's interested.

ETA: Figures quoted there from 1999.
£2.7bn in 2008 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7654153.stm).
ASH reports roughly the same figures as 1999 in 2011 (http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_95.pdf).


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

grumpy goby said:


> Doesnt the tax from **** basically cover the cost of smoking to the NHS? Or was that an urban myth I heard?


So they say, but I have yet to see any evidence that the tax money actually goes to the NHS. It is tax money, no national insurance. Far more likely it goes to buy the prime minister and his stooge another mansion.



ouesi said:


> Well, yes there's that...
> I'm all for taking responsibility for the choices you make.
> However, if you're going to offer state health care, you have to offer it equally across the board. You're going to have a tough time figuring out who's more "deserving" in an equitable way.
> 
> ...


But that is what they do. Last time I went to the States, 2005, cigarettes were still a lot cheaper there than they are here and we won't go into petrol prices or my blood pressure will shoot up!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> The cinema doesn't allow smoking, I'm on about smokers who go in stinking the place out
> 
> Why should I miss out on going to the cinema because of people's dirty stinking habit?
> 
> ...


BO people might well get slagged off, but I doubt anyone tells them they have to go home because of it, yet people think they have the right to tell a smoker that they are not welcome. Perhaps all the people with bad breath should stay home as well? I find really fat people offensive - better make sure they don't sit near me. Flickering candles give me migraine, but if I blow them out in a restaurant some helpful waiter always comes along and lights them again. So better remove all the candles from the tables; I don't like the smell of candlewax either, makes me sick - get rid of that.

I don't like kids either, so better not take them to the cinema or they might offend me.

I tell you what? Since I'm the one with all the objections, perhaps I had better stay home and everyone else can go out. What a good idea!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> The cinema doesn't allow smoking, I'm on about smokers who go in stinking the place out
> 
> Why should I miss out on going to the cinema because of people's dirty stinking habit?
> 
> ...


More exagerations .....stinking the whole cinema out?? Pleassee


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> More exagerations .....stinking the whole cinema out?? Pleassee


Ok then 

Making it smell near me, better?


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> BO people might well get slagged off, but I doubt anyone tells them they have to go home because of it, yet people think they have the right to tell a smoker that they are not welcome. Perhaps all the people with bad breath should stay home as well? I find really fat people offensive - better make sure they don't sit near me. Flickering candles give me migraine, but if I blow them out in a restaurant some helpful waiter always comes along and lights them again. So better remove all the candles from the tables; I don't like the smell of candlewax either, makes me sick - get rid of that.
> 
> I don't like kids either, so better not take them to the cinema or they might offend me.
> 
> I tell you what? Since I'm the one with all the objections, perhaps I had better stay home and everyone else can go out. What a good idea!


Do you smoke by any chance?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Do you smoke by any chance?


No, I don't. And I don't like the smell any more than you do. I just think that people have a damned cheek to tell others what they should do just in case it happens to offend them.


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

chichi said:


> Oh beg your pardon...sorry for my "little understanding"


Don't worry about it, it's not your fault you get all your drug knowledge from the telly 



chichi said:


> ...the fact that heroin addicts need professional help to give up that addiction as opposed to nicotine addicts who can do it at home with the help of patches..gum etc or purely by cutting out smoking kind of shows that heroin and nicotine addictions ARENT quite on the same level.


They don't all need professional help. Some just lock themselves away for a week or two with a selection of downers, pain meds, weed and and ride the storm. Some deliberately get nicked so they can go to jail and get off it. They don't all engage with drug services or go to rehab you know, even if rehab places _weren't_ like gold-dust.

Anywaaaaaaay you did just miss the point again but neh mind eh?...the point that the initial 'kicking the drug' phase _is the easy bit_, professional help or not... it's the 'staying off it for the rest of your life bit' that's hard and this applies to addictions of all kinds.



chichi said:


> I have heard of many instances where heroin addicts have mugged or stolen their families precious jewellery to get a fix..


I've never heard of this before  and i work with homeless people some of whom are drug dependant......what programme did you see it on? :arf:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

It's not about odour for me really, fumes from smoking are toxic and that is fact. Second hand smoke causes cancer. That is my reason for not wanting to inhale it in an enclosed areas. As for outside I don't really think non smokers have cause to complain the toxins disperse so what's the issue? Ya can't kick folks out for having body odour or bad perfume it you don't like it unlucky. It doesn't smell bad to non smokers So is a matter of opinion regarding it smelling bad


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> No, I don't. And I don't like the smell any more than you do. I just think that people have a damned cheek to tell others what they should do just in case it happens to offend them.


It's got nothing to do with being offended, m not offended by smokers in the slightest

But when it starts to affect my health, I have every right to say something as has anyone


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> It's not about odour for me really, fumes from smoking are toxic and that is fact. Second hand smoke causes cancer. That is my reason for not wanting to inhale it in an enclosed areas. As for outside I don't really think non smokers have cause to complain the toxins disperse so what's the issue? Ya can't kick folks out for having body odour or bad perfume it you don't like it unlucky. It doesn't smell bad to non smokers So is a matter of opinion regarding it smelling bad


Agree on the health front claire 100%! ....but some of the statements on here about smokers in general are silly ...


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> It's got nothing to do with being offended, m not offended by smokers in the slightest
> 
> But when it starts to affect my health, I have every right to say something as has anyone


So how does sitting in a cinema that smells of smoke from peoples clothes affect yr health ???


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Agree on the health front claire 100%! ....but some of the statements on here about smokers in general are silly ...


I agree regarding the comments Suze  Just because someone smokes doesnt mean they should be judge regarding their parenting skill, pet owner ship, personal circumstance, accused of littering or being smelly.

I dont like smoking and am very against it for health reasons but im not going to judge anyone for what they do especially regarding the reasons listed above


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## ginge2804 (Nov 5, 2011)

God some people on here don't half enjoy exaggerating! :lol:
I don't like the smell of ****, but I just move away from them if they smell of it, it doesn't stink the WHOLE room out 

I wouldn't ban it if I had the power, as its a personal choice, just as we have the choice if we want to drink alcohol, and have the choice to eat what we want.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> So how does sitting in a cinema that smells of smoke from peoples clothes affect yr health ???


Its a silly statement isnt it Suze?
The smell of smoke on a persons clothes would no more effect another persons health than sitting next to someone wearing perfume or with BO. Its the toxins in the fumes that are dangerous not the smell of a smokers clothes.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> So how does sitting in a cinema that smells of smoke from peoples clothes affect yr health ???


Gives me sinus infections


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Gives me sinus infections


what utter rubbish, the smoke could but not the odour, they are two very different things  Just research it a little and you will see how floored your point is


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> what utter rubbish, the smoke could but not the odour, they are two very different things  Just research it a little and you will see how floored your point is


Er I know my own body tyvm


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Er I know my own body tyvm


i know my own body i have no need for facts!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Gives me sinus infections


Ahhh of course ....


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Er I know my own body tyvm


Look into it, it highly unlikely you will ghet sinus infection from smells. You can from smoke itself but not just from a smell with stale smoke on clothes is. just look into you claim a little and you will see how wrong it is
Most sinus infections start with a cold. Colds are caused by a virus, which can make nasal tissue swell, blocking the holes that normally drain sinuses. Bacteria.Polyps.Swimming and diving.Flying.Fungi.Overuse of nasal products.Smoking
Like air pollutants, cigarette and cigar smoke can also irritate your nose and cause inflammation, thereby making you more susceptible to sinus infections(to point out this is smoke not an odour on clothing).Lack of moisture or dry air.Unusual/ anatomy.Chronic medical conditions.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> Look into it, your wont get a sinus infection from smells, and im afraid that is proven. You can from smoke itself but not just from a smell with stale smoke on clothes is. just look into you claim a little and you will see how wrong it is


Well I can and I have, same as the smell if a dirty hamster cage will give me one


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> I agree regarding the comments Suze  Just because someone smokes doesnt mean they should be judge regarding their parenting skill, pet owner ship, personal circumstance, accused of littering or being smelly.
> 
> I dont like smoking and am very against it for health reasons but im not going to judge anyone for what they do especially regarding the reasons listed above


Thanku claire! At least u see things sensibly xxx!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Well I can and I have, same as the smell if a dirty hamster cage will give me one


That will be an allergy or caused by the spores. Just dont let the cage get dirty and you will be fine


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> That will be an allergy or caused by the spores. Just dont let the cage get dirty and you will be fine


But I won't be fine with filthy smokers all around


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> But I won't be fine with filthy smokers all around


Do you just come on here to deliberately wind people up?

It's just I don't think I've ever seen one of your comments that doesn't look like it's been specifically designed to rub people up the wrong way.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Megan345 said:


> Do you just come on here to deliberately wind people up?
> 
> It's just I don't think I've ever seen one of your comments that doesn't look like it's been specifically designed to rub people up the wrong way.


No

I mainly come on here to pass the time


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> But I won't be fine with filthy smokers all around


you cant understand reason and are intent on offending folks so I will no longer respond to your posts as it amounts to trolling and I dont intend on contributing to getting this thread closed. good night


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I really think this thread has gone far enough now with all these accusations of the winding up of and by various members.


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