# Rat Advice



## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Hey, all your rat owners, do you have any advice for me?

I have cat litter stuff for their bedding, I thought they could use wood shavings, but the nice man at [email protected] was very informative, and told me that was a major NO NO! What substrate do you all buy? As the one in [email protected] is £4.99 and lasts a month, is there anywhere i can get dust free cat litter in a big quantity so I don't have to keep going back....... because I WILL come out with more than just bedding  Do they need the jay cloth stuff that you can get for hamsters, and do they hoard food?

Food wise: [email protected] rat nuggets at the moment, anyone got anything they swear by?

Toy wise: Where to get toys, all my hamster stuff is too small and I'm scared of them getting stuck, even though they have collapsible skulls and if they really had a wish to get through somewhere they would 

Groups: I have 2 at the moment, Males, could you add more to the group or is that also a no no? And how many rats can I have in a Savic Freddy 2 Rat Cage?

LMAO I'm such a muppet. I came out of work (which is out in the sticks and miles from anything apart from the M6 and an industrial estate) and got the bus which took bout half hour to get to [email protected] and then on the way back I got the bus again and realised I actually only live about a 10/15 minute walk away..... DOH! So I coulda gone back into town and done it much quicker that way... and now I now how close I live to it..........


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## pa2k84 (May 27, 2008)

I use something called abiouse for the bottom of my cages. Its is horse bedding sold in lots places try looking up for somewhere local. Costs me about £5 for a large bale which lasts me for months and thats with a double tier cage and 8 rats. As for food try looking up the rats shunamite diet. Uses a type of rabbit food, dog biscuits, pasta and variety of cereals love making it up putting diff things in each time to add to variety.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> Hey, all your rat owners, do you have any advice for me?
> 
> I have cat litter stuff for their bedding, I thought they could use wood shavings, but the nice man at [email protected] was very informative, and told me that was a major NO NO! What substrate do you all buy? As the one in [email protected] is £4.99 and lasts a month, is there anywhere i can get dust free cat litter in a big quantity so I don't have to keep going back....... because I WILL come out with more than just bedding  Do they need the jay cloth stuff that you can get for hamsters, and do they hoard food?
> 
> ...


Ok...some use wood shavings, I personally don't. Mainly because the little monkeys would flick it out all over the place. I use newspaper on the floor and biocatolet in their litter tray. Mine don't seem to hoard food (greedy lol).
I also use [email protected] rat nuggets, combined with normal muesli, a dried vegetable mix and dried dog biscuits. Plus they get fruit and veg every 2 days, plus leftovers from our meals. They have a very varied diet and everything goes.
Toy wise...make your own. Hammocks are easy to make up. Get some old trousers, cut the legs off and you have tunnels you can hang which they love to run through and hide in. Cardboard tubes and boxes are a favourite. I wrap up treats in paper like sweets and they love those. Your hands are a good toy. My boys love a good rough and tumble with my hands, rolling around on the floor and play biting my fingers. Get some cheap tissues in a box and let them rip and tear their way into it.

Yes you can add more males. Do it in a neutral area such as the bathroom, or even in the bath. Just be aware they can jump out. If you visit 'Fancy rats' website, they have a cage calculator. Just type in your dimensions and it will tell you how many you can keep.

I keep my 4 boys in a abode. Its suitable for 6 rats but I prefer 4 as it gives them more space to have timeout if they want.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

The guy told me that woodshavings where extremely bad because the dust in them causes respiritory problems. I also use BioCatolet!

I have just bought some ledges, 2 suspension bridges, a vegetable thing which hangs and they can get veg out of it, and a chew mat. Cost me £20 including postage. They have a hamock, do I need 2 because of dominace issues or is 1 okay? I'm trying to look for inventive toy ideas. They have a silent spinner huge wheel (that is defo not silent!)... do rats use them? and the box them came in at the mo for their bed, but not much hanging stuff at the moment!

Also do Rats make noises? I cannot work out whether one is sneezing, or whether its communication, it seems to be very regular like every couple of minutes. It wasn't doing it in [email protected] Is it happy or is it ill? I couldn't cope with another pet of mine dying so soon, or the vet bills till next week. In my vet its £20 for consultation, and then money for whatever meds.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> The guy told me that woodshavings where extremely bad because the dust in them causes respiritory problems. I also use BioCatolet!
> 
> I have just bought some ledges, 2 suspension bridges, a vegetable thing which hangs and they can get veg out of it, and a chew mat. Cost me £20 including postage. They have a hamock, do I need 2 because of dominace issues or is 1 okay? I'm trying to look for inventive toy ideas. They have a silent spinner huge wheel (that is defo not silent!)... do rats use them? and the box them came in at the mo for their bed, but not much hanging stuff at the moment!
> 
> Also do Rats make noises? I cannot work out whether one is sneezing, or whether its communication, it seems to be very regular like every couple of minutes. It wasn't doing it in [email protected] Is it happy or is it ill? I couldn't cope with another pet of mine dying so soon, or the vet bills till next week. In my vet its £20 for consultation, and then money for whatever meds.


Dust has to be kept to a minimum because they are very prone to respiratory infections, so do not use sawdust or woodshavings. I use cardboard substrate, called Finacard from this company.

www.finacard.co.uk

In my rats' litter tray, I use Back To Nature litter, which has virtually no dust and is very hygenic. Starts to smell a little towards the time I need to clean it out, but it's not too bad.

Really, only 2 males can comfortably fit into a Freddy 2 cage. If you want more rats with your 2, then you can buy a larger cage, such as an Abode, Freddy Max 2, Chi Chi 2 etc.

You should have 1 more place for them to sleep in than there are rats, for example, if you have 2 rats, you should have 3 places to sleep, such as 2 hammocks, and an igloo.

My rats sneezed a little for the first 2 weeks that I got them home. This is usually due to a new environment and usually passes. If it doesn't after 3-4 weeks, then I'd say take them to the vet to be safe.

Rats will squeak as communication, but they are generally quiet animals.

I use the Shunamite diet, which consists of Alpha Herbal Deluxe rabbit food, Burns Chicken and Rice dog kibble, cereals (eg Ryvita, weetabix etc) and wholemeal pasta twirls. If you want more info on the shunamite diet, just PM me. 

Mine don't use bedding and sleep in the open, but I do put an open tissue box in their cage for them to shread and move about if they want to use bedding.

They can hide food because they learn that if they hide the food they don't like (with mixed food), then the bowl gets filled up with their favourite bits of the mix, so you need to search the cage and make sure they are not hiding food when you fill up the bowl.

Hope I have been of some help. If you have any other questions, just PM me.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

What size Igloo should i be getting? I don't wanna get it from [email protected] cos they really expensive and cheap to buy online.

How big are they gonna grow? They are dumbo rats, is the only difference their ears? It was a bit weird yesterday, getting them into the cage, they are more resiliant, and they have tails..... I'm not used to tails!

I'll get on to buying another hammock. What is fighting, and what is playfighting?


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> What size Igloo should i be getting? I don't wanna get it from [email protected] cos they really expensive and cheap to buy online.
> 
> How big are they gonna grow? They are dumbo rats, is the only difference their ears? It was a bit weird yesterday, getting them into the cage, they are more resiliant, and they have tails..... I'm not used to tails!
> 
> I'll get on to buying another hammock. What is fighting, and what is playfighting?


It depends on the rat how big they will grow. My dumbo is the largest in every way while my 3 top eared boys are more slender. Fighting is chasing and screaming and sidling up to each other. Then pining down and biting. That is what I have observed anyway. Whereas with my 2 brother rats they tend to tumble around the cage pinning each other down but there is no screaming and they really seem to be enjoying it.
You can tell when fighting starts as they usually get quite vocal and injuries can result.


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## jaxx (Aug 10, 2009)

I use megazorb for my ratties. It's actually for horses but it's ideal for small rodents as well as it's dust free and paper based. It's also very absorbant, hence the name I would imagine! lol

I get a huuuuuge sack for less than £10 delivered to my door and it lasts around 6 months.

Here's a link to a site. It's the cheapest one I could find. https://www.farmway.co.uk/search.html?query=megazorb&search=&select_brand=


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

I like Megazorb too, I used it for years with my rats in preference to anything else. I have heard the cardboard bits are good, I think you can also now get shredded cardboard, but TBH Megazorb was more absorbent and a little bit softer for the rats to walk on. I always think about them walking on their little hands... have seen some pet stores use wood pellet cat litter as bedding, surely that must be like walking on Brighton beach in bare feet, but in your own home? 

Disadvantage: they tend to fling bits out every which way. Do not have your computer anywhere near the rat cage if you use it: one little fragment will kill your printer! But in that respect it is far better than wood shavings, which tend to knit themselves into your carpet and you run the risk of getting into bed at night finding a shaving stuck to the sole of your foot.

Have also used Aubiose (hemp-based bedding) but it is prone to mould if kept in damp areas, some horse places keep the bales outside. This isn't good AT ALL if you have rats with respiratory issues and even if you don't, I did notice mine sneezing a lot more even when I had Aubiose from a dry source. That's when I switched to Megazorb. It works out a lot cheaper than Biocatolet too so you can afford to be generous with it. My hamsters really liked it too.


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

Not much advice about the bedding. I use sawdust cos I've never had any problems with it! However, ShreddyBed is an AMAZING bedding. No smell and really absorbent and a large bale lasts months 

As for the food however, rats are intelligent creatures and require different food to stop keeping them bored rather than just one nugget! I mix 2 cups of rat nuggets with one cup of pasta, 1 cup of cereal, half a cup of oats and some ferrets food/nuts etc just to pack it out. I also feed them fresh veg 

Boys can be introduced when they're at a young age. I;ve found it difficult to introduce rats while they're maturing sexually as they get massively territorial but it is possible. If you have them as a pair they should be more accepting.

2 rats in a freddy 2 

Rats do make noises, they make sorta chittering sounds which is them crunching their teeth together. It is called bruxing and they do it to keep their teeth short. They also tend to do it when they're happy, though it can be when they're distressed. 

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

OOOH I'll buy some of that megazorb stuff, looks good, but then I still have a bag of that cat litter stuff, well... we do have 3 cats so I'll just give it to someone 

I'm going to look at making a diet for them, any ideas would be welcome. How often should i be feeding them anything other than rat food? Is stuff like bread and crackers and stuff like that okay for them?

My 2 are about 6 weeks old apparently, so not sexually mature. I have a book I got with the cage on Fancy Rats, are Fancy Rats and Dumbos basically the same thing with exception of the ears?


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

Basically anything that isn't high in protein, fat or sugars etc is ok to feed them. Avoid citrus fruit though as this is bad for their stomachs and kidneys.

To be honest so long as you have a staple rat food for them you can mix most things in with it. The diet I offer mine gives them variety and keeps them interested, then they get occasional tidbits on top of that 

Dumbo rats can be fancy rats... Fancy rats are generally ones you show because they have specific colours or patterns etc, whether they are dumbo or top ear. 

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## pa2k84 (May 27, 2008)

All rats sold are fancy rats. the only difference is the shape of the ears dont believe [email protected] they do not live any longer or grow any bigger than top ears.


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## cherrie_b (Dec 14, 2008)

I checked on the rats last night and one is very friendly whilst I haven't seen the other. I think I love rats!


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

Told you so  They're wonderful little critters which is how i seem to have ended up with 18 of them...

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Rats need about 3-4 different types of veg daily, with 1 piece of fruit given every other day. You can give them virtually any fruit and veg apart from raw sweet potato, and citrus fruit.

Up until the rats are 8 weeks old, they need a protein food each day. You can give them tuna, chicken, cooked chicken bones, salmon, egg etc. You can start decreasing the the amount of protein you give them from 8 weeks old, until they are 14 weeks old, when you give them a protein food once-twice a week. You can also give them eggfood, such as EMP, used for rearing baby birds.

I make up 2kg of food each time I mix the food. I put in:

1kg of Alpha Herbal Deluxe rabbit food
200g Burns Chicken and Rice Dog Kibble
200g of cereals (such as Ryvita, cornflakes etc)
600g of wholemeal pasta twirls

I top the bowl up each time it gets empty, there's no set time really, and they get their veg in the evening.


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

They don't need veg everyday, it's just a good supplement to their normal diet. When given too often it can mess up their digestive systems as veg has loads of fibre in it. Be careful with giving them too much protein as this increases the risk of tumours.

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

He is still in there isn't he? He is probably in the [email protected] box, as I'm using that for their bed at the moment. I have some stuff coming from UK Pet supplies soon for them


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

I have bought some bird toys from wilkos, only 99p each, bargain! and I bought this coconut thing, its for birds but will rats be able to have it, its perfectamundo for their cage, and I bought a dog toy which I can hang, and then I have stuff from UK pet supplies comin.... going a bit crazy


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Akai-Chan said:


> They don't need veg everyday, it's just a good supplement to their normal diet. When given too often it can mess up their digestive systems as veg has loads of fibre in it. Be careful with giving them too much protein as this increases the risk of tumours.
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


when they are babies, they need veg and protein. They need 80% dry food and 20% fresh food (protein, fruit and veg). Once they are adults, they don't need as much. Please read my post again.


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> Rats need about 3-4 different types of veg daily, with 1 piece of fruit given every other day. You can give them virtually any fruit and veg apart from raw sweet potato, and citrus fruit.


You haven't specified an age here. You just said 'Rats' which implies all rats.



SEVEN_PETS said:


> Up until the rats are 8 weeks old, they need a protein food each day. You can give them tuna, chicken, cooked chicken bones, salmon, egg etc. You can start decreasing the the amount of protein you give them from 8 weeks old, until they are 14 weeks old, when you give them a protein food once-twice a week. You can also give them eggfood, such as EMP, used for rearing baby birds.





Akai-Chan said:


> Be careful with giving them too much protein as this increases the risk of tumours.


I haven't disagreed with you about giving young'uns too much protein, I'm just highlighting the danger of feeding too much protein. Generally rat food has enough protein in it for young rats (over 6 weeks) anyway so extra shouldn't be necessary, except as an occasional treat. I still feed mine lactol porridge or chicken occasionally. When I breed my rats I give the mother extra protein and the babies are fed on a small amount of lactol porridge once a day after they start eating porridge. After this they are fine without extra supplement and still grow normally.

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

You haven't specified an age here. You just said 'Rats' which implies all rats.

Rats in general need daily veg. Only a small amount is needed per rat.

I haven't disagreed with you about giving young'uns too much protein, I'm just highlighting the danger of feeding too much protein. Generally rat food has enough protein in it for young rats (over 6 weeks) anyway so extra shouldn't be necessary, except as an occasional treat. I still feed mine lactol porridge or chicken occasionally. When I breed my rats I give the mother extra protein and the babies are fed on a small amount of lactol porridge once a day after they start eating porridge. After this they are fine without extra supplement and still grow normally.

I have to disagree, rats need protein up until they are 14 weeks old, basically when they stop growing. which rat food do you use by any chance?


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

You originally said



SEVEN_PETS said:


> Rats need about 3-4 different types of veg daily, with 1 piece of fruit given every other day. You can give them virtually any fruit and veg apart from raw sweet potato, and citrus fruit.


a)3-4 different types of veg daily isn;t a small amount

b) They do not need veg everyday. Veg is high in fibre which will eventually mess up their digestive system and make it unpleasant to clean them out. I feed my rats veg once or twice a week and their poo is always way smellier and more runny after feeding vegetables.



SEVEN_PETS said:


> I have to disagree, rats need protein up until they are 14 weeks old, basically when they stop growing. which rat food do you use by any chance?


I;m not saying they don't need protein, I'm saying they don't necessarily need protein supplement as their food will contain enough protein. I use [email protected] rat food mixed with pasta, oats, cereals and I put a very small amount of ferret kibble and nuts in it occasionally to give them a treat.

You also said earlier that you can feed them cooked chicken bones. This is a no no as the bones can shatter which will damage their throat.

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

You originally said

a)3-4 different types of veg daily isn;t a small amount Different types, so a small amount of broccoli, a small amount of curly kale, and a small amount of peas. This makes it a small amount, about as much as fits in a 2 inch wide bowl.

b) They do not need veg everyday. Veg is high in fibre which will eventually mess up their digestive system and make it unpleasant to clean them out. I feed my rats veg once or twice a week and their poo is always way smellier and more runny after feeding vegetables.

I;m not saying they don't need protein, I'm saying they don't necessarily need protein supplement as their food will contain enough protein. I use [email protected] rat food mixed with pasta, oats, cereals and I put a very small amount of ferret kibble and nuts in it occasionally to give them a treat.

You also said earlier that you can feed them cooked chicken bones. This is a no no as the bones can shatter which will damage their throat.

They can get chicken bones, they grind it down to a powder, unlike dogs who shatter them and it can damage their throat. It's more of a chew for rats.


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

The chicken bones still have a potential to harm them. They do grind them down but big bits still go through. Rats throats aren't big, it only takes a small piece to cause harm.

No matter how small the amount, It still shouldn't be fed every day. It might be a small amount to you but for a rat that's still a large amount. A small amount once or twice a week is a good amount, anymore than that will result in digestive problems and, as I said earlier, make cleaning them out a HORRIBLE chore >_<

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

With regards to feeding chicken bones... I know of some keepers who do feed cooked chicken wings with no problems. The wing bones are a lot softer and smaller than the other bones of a chicken and the rats grind them down well. But you have to do what you feel comfortable with and if your not happy then don't do it.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Akai-Chan said:


> The chicken bones still have a potential to harm them. They do grind them down but big bits still go through. Rats throats aren't big, it only takes a small piece to cause harm.
> 
> No matter how small the amount, It still shouldn't be fed every day. It might be a small amount to you but for a rat that's still a large amount. A small amount once or twice a week is a good amount, anymore than that will result in digestive problems and, as I said earlier, make cleaning them out a HORRIBLE chore >_<
> 
> ...


I still disagree. Veg should be fed daily, if you have found it's not good for your rats, then fine, but my rats love their veg and it works for them and doesn't do them any harm.


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

Whatever works for you, but every rat I've tried to feed veg to more often than one or 2 times a week has gotten massive diahorrea. I even took one to the vet who said that I shouldn't feed veg that often and since then they only get veg once every few days.

As for the chicken bones, yes most rats do grind the bones right down but there's still a chance that a splinter could get through. Not a chance I;d be willing to take with my rats. I'd rather my rats not die, thanks, but again. Personal choice.

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## pa2k84 (May 27, 2008)

My rats get fresh veg (once a week fruit) every day they love it. Peas and sweetcorn tonight mixed with cous-cous and tinned fish yum!


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

I agree with akai-chan.

thats way to much for a wee lil rat ther stomachs are tiny, i have seen one (when i disected it) it was about the size of a large broard bean.

so im sure that it wont fit in a baby's stomach

xxxxx


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Chicken bones are fine, in many many years of rats and many many rats, I've never had an issue of any sort with them! In fact when I used to show my rats, it used to be a bit of a tradition (could well still be!) that after a long trip home on the motorway, we had KFC on the way home so we could treat the ratties who had been to the show! Some of our seasoned show rats started getting quite excited when we stopped on the way home cos they knew what was coming 

Also, hamsters like a bit of chicken too, they do eat insects in the wild - same again, no issues with a bone, as they gnaw into powder and simply don't have the kind of teeth that can make bones splinter. Dogs & cats have teeth designed for crushing raw bones.. raw bones don't splinter but cooked ones do, so as everyone knows cooked bones are a no-no for carnivores.

Fruit & veg, I always kept as a twice-weekly treat although the rats did get leftover cooked veg and any veg peelings, but if you have only a few rats that would probably be too much. When you have 20+ a little goes a long way...


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

i don't see what the problem is with giving a rat 'too much' fruit and/or veg, rats in general don't over eat and will eat what they want/like. Like humans they tend to find eating alot of one particular thing too much and will only eat so much then move on to something else (such as a rat nugget rather than another bit of fruit/veg). What they don't eat they will leave or hide for later.

mine get all sorts of chopped up bits of veg from our meals and generally if we give them too much we find it in later on when we clean them out. We only get diarrhoea from one or two particular rats (younger ones usually) who only get it with certain veg.

I think it's mainly down to personal choice (and money sometimes) and nothing to get upset about which is what's is blatantly happening with some of the posts on this thread. 

I've fed my rats the same way since i've kept them and never had a problem, while someone else feeding their rats the same food as me will have issues... it's the same with any animal and any feed regime it will work for some and not for others. As long as you're not feeding them something that is blatantly bad for them.. like chocolate to a dog for example, in which case advise away. If not then stop the high horsing, no-one is better than anyone else on here, or trying to kill rats as someone has intoned.

calm down and think about what and how you say things.. too many arguements on here are caused by insensitive and useless comments.


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