# Please help before I make it all worse!



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Muttly and his eating is really getting on top of me. 

He has always been picky and he's really not fussed about food, not food orientated at all.

He is raw fed and since this (and I don't know if it is because his body digests and uses so much more of it, so less waste and no fillers = empty belly quicker?) he gets a rumbly/gurgly stomach which makes him unsettled and unhappy.

I am trying so hard to get him to eat half his food in the morning, a snack at lunch and his dinner. But it's just an endless battle and now I feel it is effecting our relationship.

Morning walks are me trying to feed him, then I am having to hand feed him most of the time at like 10pm because he hasn't touched his dinner.

I can't just leave him, because he wont 'eat when he's hungry' he will wake me up during the night to tell me his stomach hurts/feel weird and I have to get up and try and find something he will eat! It's a real nightmare.

Yesterday he started not coming to me when called, because I think he thinks I just want to feed him and he's not interested. So this is majorly effecting everything.

I can't take him off raw, but he won't eat dry or tinned food. Also I have the most success with raw food compared to anything else I have tried, plus he's in great condition from it.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Difficult one.
I'd stop hand feeding him. If he won't come to you because he thinks you're going to feed him, it clearly is damaging your bond with him. Gurgly stomachs can be an indicator of colitis or other digestive issues, not just hunger. When Ziggy gets a gurgly gut, I don't even put food in her bowl as I know she won't want it. 
Muttly does look to me as if he could stand to lose some weight, so a few missed meals will do him no harm. I'd put him in a room with food (whatever sort), back off and leave him to it - and do this at regular times. If he refuses the food, he gets nothing until the next meal time. Slippery elm might help too, soothes the gut lining. Irritation there could be causing his pickiness and food refusal.


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## Tacey (Mar 4, 2012)

I used to have similar problems with April... Her tummy would rumble and she'd puke bile because it was so empty but she just didn't want her food. I think once they get the gurgly tummy they feel too queasy to eat and that's part of the problem. I started to give her a snack every night before bedtime which has pretty much eradicated the gurgles, and a good walk before breakfast to give her an appetite. Dinner she had to work for... every piece was hand fed as a reward for training. Everyone suggests to just take the food away and offer nothing until the next meal time which is all very well untill you have a hunger puking dog.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Empty tummy/bile sickies are really horrid - we are going through the same with Poppy at the moment and she keeps waking OH up at daft times (mostly ok as he is usually up by 5am anyway but not so great when he doesnt have to get up!) luckily she is happy to eat so extra food before bed stops it.

When you say "i cant take him off raw" .... well you can, if its not suiting him. Like any food, it may be the best - but it's not the best for your dog if he is not thriving on it (neither of mine did well on raw and the other point blank refused everything!)

Does he like complete minces ? could you feed these for a while ? 

Some really super stinky wet food ? Dont feed it cold, warm it up in the microwave - mine wont eat cold wet food, unless its frozen in a kong (he could have several kongs a day containing everything he needs)

Kibble mixed with sardines (extremely stinky and most dogs seem to love it !)


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Burrowzig said:


> Difficult one.
> I'd stop hand feeding him. If he won't come to you because he thinks you're going to feed him, it clearly is damaging your bond with him. Gurgly stomachs can be an indicator of colitis or other digestive issues, not just hunger. When Ziggy gets a gurgly gut, I don't even put food in her bowl as I know she won't want it.
> Muttly does look to me as if he could stand to lose some weight, so a few missed meals will do him no harm. I'd put him in a room with food (whatever sort), back off and leave him to it - and do this at regular times. If he refuses the food, he gets nothing until the next meal time. Slippery elm might help too, soothes the gut lining. Irritation there could be causing his pickiness and food refusal.


He has gone back up to 7.2kgs. Whereas I prefer him at 6.8kgs. He isn't getting food from elsewhere, I know that. So perhaps it is the bits I am having to give him to get him to eat, like Primula. I would like to say tough and I know he won't suffer from missing meals, as he can stand to loose some weight. 
But it's this awful depressing thing, he freaks out, dashes about, won't settle when he has his gurgly belly. I don;t know if he is in pain though or if it's just gurgling (it sure sounds like gurgling).
Interestingly, my belly was gurgling this morning and he was on my lap, he jumped off it and ran upstairs, so from this perhaps it is just the noise that worries him and it isn't a belly ache.

I will have a google of Colitis and see if any other symptoms match, thanks.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Tacey said:


> I used to have similar problems with April... Her tummy would rumble and she'd puke bile because it was so empty but she just didn't want her food. I think once they get the gurgly tummy they feel too queasy to eat and that's part of the problem. I started to give her a snack every night before bedtime which has pretty much eradicated the gurgles, and a good walk before breakfast to give her an appetite. Dinner she had to work for... every piece was hand fed as a reward for training. Everyone suggests to just take the food away and offer nothing until the next meal time which is all very well untill you have a hunger puking dog.


I have done everything you said, unfortunately. I have even bought meat chunks now instead of minced meat so I can take it out with us for training treats, but yesterday, he ate about 5 small chunks of pure beef and then wouldn't come to me.

And yes, I am constantly trying to get him to eat before the gurgly stage as they then feel queezy and are much less likely to eat. The only things that work then are cheese or Goat's milk. But cheese mostly.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

He might also be picking up your anxiety. I have started alternating food for Timber as he can be fussy. I know it's not good to change food cold turkey but I believe that's to do with gut flora so I'm hoping regular alternating is ok (please someone nudge me if that theory is flawed) so over a few days he will have - a good quality kibble as training rewards and also mixed with cooked mince (when we have it); dehydrated Pure; semi dry Alpha Spirit; a chicken wing. He also gets some cooked veg. He seems to like variety.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

With Ziggy, when she was on food with grains in, I know it was pain with the gurgling as she'd be a bit stiff and hunched over as well. What got her going (strangely) was a good run and a good poo! She'd never not chase a ball and will probably get up off her death bed if I throw one for her. It doesn't happen often now though as she's on grain free food but she has developed chronic pancreatitis so sometimes refuses food to the point where she gets hunger gurgles.


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

We had similar issues with Pip and his meals, tried all sorts of foods and some are better but nothing has got him excited about meal times, we have ended up with a routine, in the morning after his walk he gets a bit of Rocco dried chicken (or similar), then when i have my lunch he gets another bit, then about 6.30 we have our tea and he gets his with us, if he doesn't eat it we leave it for as long as seems sensible. He gets is last walk about 9.15 ish and his food is picked up (if its still down), at bed time he gets a Platinum treat which seems to have stopped the morning pukes.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

TBH to me, it sounds like whatever he's eating isn't suiting him as it's either a) not providing what he needs & he's getting gurgly tummy or b) it's making his tummy sore & that's why it's gurgly 

you shouldn't need to be trying to feed food for meals while out training / walks etc and it's not doing either of you any good as it's upsetting you both  

As others have said, put meals down and leave him to it, if he doesn't eat it, remove and try at the next meal 
- and cut out the human stuff like primula etc - although these are great if you need to get meds or something else down, it can help to make them really fussy if fed more than very occasionally 

Try a different food, I'd try a nice wet as it's often gentler on delicate tummies & generally a nice consistency that most dogs will enjoy


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Empty tummy/bile sickies are really horrid - we are going through the same with Poppy at the moment and she keeps waking OH up at daft times (mostly ok as he is usually up by 5am anyway but not so great when he doesnt have to get up!) luckily she is happy to eat so extra food before bed stops it.
> 
> When you say "i cant take him off raw" .... well you can, if its not suiting him. Like any food, it may be the best - but it's not the best for your dog if he is not thriving on it (neither of mine did well on raw and the other point blank refused everything!)
> 
> ...


I say I can't take him off only because I only looked into raw before, because he was refusing everything else. He was on tinned wet, kibble, raw complete meals, chunky dried meat things, that I then soaked. 
I have some complete Nature Diet still, I will try that warmed thanks. (then the problem with that is poo eating because he can;t digest the veg they put in it).

This morning I tried him with some sardines in tomato sauce with his Lily's Kitchen kibble, which he normally loves, so will see what OH says at lunch.

I think part of it at the mo is also that we have had 2 days of 32 Degree temps here. Another hot day today, then cooling down Friday, so I hope he will have a better appetite then.

I gave him a frozen kong yesterday which had chicken liver, cheese and a bit of peanut butter. He finished that ok.

I dunno, maybe he does find the raw meat a bit boring, I mean the pure meat doesn't smell of much.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Burrowzig said:


> With Ziggy, when she was on food with grains in, I know it was pain with the gurgling as she'd be a bit stiff and hunched over as well. What got her going (strangely) was a good run and a good poo! She'd never not chase a ball and will probably get up off her death bed if I throw one for her. It doesn't happen often now though as she's on grain free food but she has developed chronic pancreatitis so sometimes refuses food to the point where she gets hunger gurgles.


This is how I test if Muttly is ok. Most dog owners know their dog is ill when they don;t eat. Well I know Muttly is ill if he refuses a walk. He has never refused a walk yet.

I walk him in the mornings, because he does need that exercise before he eats and yes a poo! But it doesn't always make him eat after.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lilylass said:


> TBH to me, it sounds like whatever he's eating isn't suiting him as it's either a) not providing what he needs & he's getting gurgly tummy or b) it's making his tummy sore & that's why it's gurgly
> 
> you shouldn't need to be trying to feed food for meals while out training / walks etc and it's not doing either of you any good as it's upsetting you both
> 
> ...


Thank you Lily. So should I just leave him if he won;t eat when his belly gurgles? It's not nice seeing him like this though


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

If he likes his food in kongs, then try some wet in that, rather than just in a bowl 

I'd stop the non-dog-food stuff (even in kongs / as treats etc) totally until you've got him eating properly again 

It's entirely feasible he thinks he'll get something tastier if he doesn't eat his proper food and may well be getting enough calories from stuff like you're putting in the kong if his weight is going up


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Have you tried doggy ice lollies?

I made some for Maisie a couple of weeks back when it was really hot 

A handful of a nice kibble (purizon chicken & pumpkin here but you could certainly use his LK), 1/2 can of nice wet (Billy & Margot chicken!), blended and added some water 

Froze in small tubs and she then got the block which took her a while to eat & cooled her down too  

At least with that sort of thing, it's proper dog food and not human stuff


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Honestly if he's been on raw, tinned, kibble and you've been adding extras and he's still picking at all, he's having you on. I would stop pandering to it. A healthy dog will not starve itself, but they may skip meals if they think they'll get something like cheese or goats milk instead. Put the food down, leave it for 5 minutes, pick it up. He gets nothing until the next feeding time. Even my Tilly who would LIKE to be fussy and would if she could, will eat whatever is put in front of her. On the very odd occasion she skips a meal it will get picked up and she'll get nothing until the next one.

I found when I fed raw mine were always hungry. They are much more satisfied on dried/tinned food, and get a big biscuit of a handful of kibble before bed to stop the nighttime pukes.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lilylass said:


> If he likes his food in kongs, then try some wet in that, rather than just in a bowl
> 
> I'd stop the non-dog-food stuff (even in kongs / as treats etc) totally until you've got him eating properly again
> 
> It's entirely feasible he thinks he'll get something tastier if he doesn't eat his proper food and may well be getting enough calories from stuff like you're putting in the kong if his weight is going up


Well this is what I thought, but when I am desperate and have to just get something..anything in him he doesn;t by any means look like this is what he was waiting for. He refused cooked beef the other day (supermarket not home cooked).

Maybe I;m giving him too much choice and I should just stick with something he likes out of the raw. I am trying to think if there is a pattern and you know what? He started doing this again when I gave him the minced beef, which I didn't realise before has bits of offal in (he;s not an offal fan, hence why I do the kong above).
He was eating the stuff before of his own accord (mostly) which was tripe and chicken.

Grr, just had 2 drawers full of food delivered. But I have got the chunky tripe, which he always used to love. I will defrost that for tonight.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> He has gone back up to 7.2kgs. Whereas I prefer him at 6.8kgs. He isn't getting food from elsewhere, I know that. So perhaps it is the bits I am having to give him to get him to eat, like Primula. I would like to say tough and I know he won't suffer from missing meals, as he can stand to loose some weight.
> But it's this awful depressing thing, he freaks out, dashes about, won't settle when he has his gurgly belly. I don;t know if he is in pain though or if it's just gurgling (it sure sounds like gurgling).
> Interestingly, my belly was gurgling this morning and he was on my lap, he jumped off it and ran upstairs, so from this perhaps it is just the noise that worries him and it isn't a belly ache.
> 
> I will have a google of Colitis and see if any other symptoms match, thanks.


Sounds like he has YOU perfectly trained.
Raw food goes down - he doesnt eat it
Later on knows that running about etc and creating when his belly gurgles gets him primula, peanut butter and cheese filled kongs (errr what dog isnt going to eat that!!) and or anything else that you try in order to get him to eat.

Muttly 1 - muttly's mum -0

Feed him what you want, from a bowl, not your hand. If he doesnt eat it pop back in the fridge. If he does "freaking out" at his belly rumbling offer same food again....... repeat. Dried tripe stick or whatever before bed to stop hunger pukes at night.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Muttly said:


> I say I can't take him off only because I only looked into raw before, because he was refusing everything else. He was on tinned wet, kibble, raw complete meals, chunky dried meat things, that I then soaked.
> I have some complete Nature Diet still, I will try that warmed thanks. (then the problem with that is poo eating because he can;t digest the veg they put in it).
> 
> This morning I tried him with some sardines in tomato sauce with his Lily's Kitchen kibble, which he normally loves, so will see what OH says at lunch.
> ...


There are hundreds of wet foods out there, some bland, some really super stinky ! (arden grange sensitive cans spring to mind, not too much veg either, or fishmongers trout trays contain no veg and stink!) based on his size he would maybe need half or just over a can a day which could easily be feed from a Kong allowing enough calories left for a bedtime biscuit or two.

Just a FYI - i would swop the sardines for ones in oil (drain it) as too much tomato sauce isnt a good thing.

As Lilylass said, you need to cut out everything else. No human food whatsoever until he is eating properly and even then use with caution. Mine don't have anything human other than canned fish once a week as a topper (sardines, pink salmon, mackeral) warmed goats milk with honey if i am feeling generous whilst shopping lol. We dont give them primula, cheese (unless im out of arden grange liver paste for meds) bits of meat or table scraps. Nothing.

When i was feeding dry kibble (we are using semi moist at the moment) then they were fed kibble for breakfast, and then kibble for dinner with a huge variety of wet food mixed in (loads of different brands and different flavours, keeps them interested!).


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## Nicki85 (Oct 6, 2010)

Shae is raw fed and I also find she gets an empty stomach very quickly which leads to her feeling sick and not wanting to eat. Morning meals used to be the worst with her refusing point blank to eat anything... it was a vicious cycle.

What worked for us was giving a bonio biscuit in the evening at around 11pm and then another when she woke up. As she sleeps in the room she tends to stir when she starts getting hungry so I pass her another biscuit and fall asleep again lol. She'll then have a few dehydrated things on her morning walk and be ready for breakfast once home.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Am a great believer fussy eaters are born and not made.

I also believe anxiety over food is the one reason, many dogs worry about eating, and that's the owners anxiety not the dogs.

What gap between walking Muttly in the morning, to feeding him do you leave?

I do have Cleo who now and again, wakes us up with the need to eat grass in the morning at whatever time that will be, even though she has a tiny bit of food prior to bed. Just the odd occasion has empty uncomfortable belly and eats grass like a cow and depends if that helps whether or not she will eat first thing her breakfast.

Now if you are trying to feed quite a lot of food on a walk, which is brilliant. You do amazing interactive walks with Muttly but trying to get him to eat a meal in what may be a belly which feels empty and unsettled as well as the exercise, it might be not helping.

I commend you for feeding him little and often throughout the day, to try and help his digestive system. It is totally the right thing to do.

As others have said, raw is not for every dog or person. There is no harm feeding a variety of different foods if Muttly can cope with that.

I would try to swap rewards on walks for maybe a quick game of tug...with something he never gets to play with except on walks.

He will come to you still, he still adores you but he's not interested in the food that's all.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Are you sure he hasn't got Pancreatitis?


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

rona said:


> Are you sure he hasn't got Pancreatitis?


Mutley has said that he's happy to go for walks & generally healthy - he would be very unwell if he had pancreatitis and would be vomiting once he'd eaten and more likely than not also have diarrhea and be very lethargic (which hasn't been mentioned)


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

If that was one of mine, I'd pick the bowl up and try again in the evening.. there is only so long a dog would 'starve'.

I've never personally had a fussy eater but I was always on the mindset that you eat what you get fed or you don't eat at all.

Has he had a vet check just to make sure everything is okay?


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Apollo used to be an incredibly fussy eater and i was so anxious for over a year because he would refuse to eat, sometimes for days. But unlike Muttly Apollo was super skinny and couldn't afford to lose any weight.

I realised eventually he was feeding off my anxiety, not helped by the fact that if he doesn't eat late enough at night he will be sick in the morning. He also realised I would give him more and more tasty treats in an effort to get seem food in him

So I found a food he seemed to like sometimes, mixed it with raw mince/wet food etc put it down for 30 mins and whatever was left I threw it away (he only eats once a day, his choice) after a few days he started eating most of his food in the half hour it was down. I also cut out all treats both dog and human unless he was eating his food then he was allowed treats. 

We've had some set backs sometimes he will decide he just doesn't want to eat or if it's too hot he won't eat, but I'll just take it away now and not worry too much as long as he doesn't seem ill. 

Force feeding will not help, I don't even try to feed Apollo outside the house now as he won't touch it and like you, I tried feeding him all the time while walking and it just made him want to ignore me.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Oh and it sounds like the noises from his gurgling tummy worry him, so as long as it's not the middle of the night I would maybe try play with him a bit to get his mind off it


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Lilylass said:


> Mutley has said that he's happy to go for walks & generally healthy - he would be very unwell if he had pancreatitis and would be vomiting once he'd eaten and more likely than not also have diarrhea and be very lethargic (which hasn't been mentioned)


Not so, the only signs one of my walk dogs showed and still does after two years with acute pancreatitis is severe stomach pain


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

rona said:


> Are you sure he hasn't got Pancreatitis?


Extremely good point Rona...

Although I asked the basics...

Still had what Burrowzig said in my mind and I definitely think a vet check, because she's doing everything right with little and often meals throughout the day, and most feed only twice with snacks. There seems something not right.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I had this problem with Lucy the vet told me give her some Chappie and that worked


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Adding a probiotic twice a day may help with the rumbly tummy.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I cant see how "little and often" helps a dog (without any issues) actually become hungry and eat a meal....... dogs arent designed to be grazers are they?


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rona said:


> Not so, the only signs one of my walk dogs showed and still does after two years with acute pancreatitis is severe stomach pain





lullabydream said:


> Extremely good point Rona...
> 
> Although I asked the basics...
> 
> Still had what Burrowzig said in my mind and I definitely think a vet check, because she's doing everything right with little and often meals throughout the day, and most feed only twice with snacks. There seems something not right.


Im not an expert in Pancreatitis by any means - but surely he wouldnt want to eat at all, rather than just be picky with what he is eating ? i.e. wont eat his dinner but will eat a kong or cheese.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rona said:


> Are you sure he hasn't got Pancreatitis?


Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think he's unwell. He's bright eyed, poo is normal and regular, bouncing about, playing chase with me and playing with plastic bottles, drinking ok. 
He was sick yesterday, but I do think that was the heat. As 2 hours later he happily ate a frozen kong and no sickness since. Other than that, we have never had sickness during these periods.


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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

Lupin was a very fussy eater before Zephyr came along & would turn her little nose away from hand fed roast chicken  
I am sure most of it (prob all) was my fault pandering to her as she had nothing wrong with her but I know how worrying it is when they
won't eat  & the more anxious I got the more she'd refuse to eat. If Muttly is ok health wise I'd agree with the others who've said put his food
down, leave him alone with it (so he doesn't get anxious/put off with you hovering) & if he doesn't eat it after 5-10 mins take it away until next meal time.
Alternatively feed him his meals in the kong but leave him alone with it.

Flax used to have gurgly tum & do bile puke in the morning so I fed them all later (about 8-9pm) & gave them a dentastix at bedtime which
resolved that issue altogether.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Apollo2012 said:


> Apollo used to be an incredibly fussy eater and i was so anxious for over a year because he would refuse to eat, sometimes for days. But unlike Muttly Apollo was super skinny and couldn't afford to lose any weight.
> 
> I realised eventually he was feeding off my anxiety, not helped by the fact that if he doesn't eat late enough at night he will be sick in the morning. He also realised I would give him more and more tasty treats in an effort to get seem food in him
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for sharing. Sounds like you have been through exactly what I have! Really helpful


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## Oldspot78 (Sep 15, 2016)

I had this problem with my 11yr old, she was raw fed, (she was really picky too and I was throwing so much away, I changed her to Applaws dry and their pate which she loves) I mentioned her gurgle tummy to the vet and i said it almost seems like heartburn. My vet prescribed some tablets but also mentioned that they're actually Zantac. Now whenever my girl is off her food (not often now) she has a Zantac (can be bought from the chemist) and it's a god send. Might be worth a try?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I walk him in the morning and get back about 7:40am, then make his kong up to leave when I go to work. Well he used to eat it at like 8am, but now just leaves it or eats it in the afternoon, or at lunchtime.

The one thing Muttly does seem to really look forward to eating is his Greenie, he has this when I come home at lunch time and seems to love it.

Let me think....If I get out some tripe, mix with a bit of wet (will check home bargains at lunch time see what I can find) and maybe a few bit s of kibble?

I had forgotten about the Probiotic, I have been a bit lax on that lately!


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Glad Muttly is brighter now .
My old boy Dibby suffered from colitis and the symptoms varied depending on severity , he was fussy I used to feed him natures diet or natures menu which he liked . I used to add a bit of cooked chicken sometimes.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Lexiedhb said:


> I cant see how "little and often" helps a dog (without any issues) actually become hungry and eat a meal....... dogs arent designed to be grazers are they?


No they are not...but with dog with digestive issues,which are vast and I am including things like liver problems too...the first thing you do is give small regular meals. Usually 4. Which is what Muttly has...and he still rumbles, well there may be something more going on there.

Toy breeds its often a good idea to feed 3 meals a day, for blood sugar levels. They can crash quickly, so technically mine get 3 meals a day, one being a chew/kong. Whereas the chew my larger dogs get are just snacks, albeit the same size to some extent.

One of my dogs eats once a day, because that's what suits him. So I have no qualms about how often you feed a dog.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I agree that it sounds like maybe raw just doesn't suit him ad I would look at taking him off it personally. My Missy suffers from bile vomits on/off, and has done for years now, although her belly never gurgles and I don't think hers are hunger related. Ty sometimes gets a gurgly belly and then won't eat his breakfast. As someone else mentioned, I think they feel to sickly at that point to even want to eat. I have found though that as soon as Ty does eat, it fixes the gurgly belly almost instantly.

In part, I do think maybe you have to get him onto a good kibble/wet food or whatever and then persevere. I'd stop the hand feeding, and the anxiety. As others have said, he will eat, and he's proven he will when taking food from his Kong etc. Maybe feeding him his breakfast and dinner in his Kong instead?


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Can't give any advice but I am sorry you and Muttly are going through this
Hope you find the solution soon, hugs to you both


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Muttly said:


> I say I can't take him off only because I only looked into raw before, because he was refusing everything else. He was on tinned wet, kibble, raw complete meals, chunky dried meat things, that I then soaked.
> I have some complete Nature Diet still, I will try that warmed thanks. (then the problem with that is poo eating because he can;t digest the veg they put in it).
> 
> This morning I tried him with some sardines in tomato sauce with his Lily's Kitchen kibble, which he normally loves, so will see what OH says at lunch.
> ...


Haven't read the whole thread but it just occurred to me ...if he will eat from a kong could you replace one of his meals with a kong...perhaps the fact he has to work for it makes it more enjoyable for him when he gets it....

I give Alfie a small dish of dry in the morning and follow it up with a kong before going to work ...As i close the door he's busily chasing it round the room excitedly trying to get the food out..... in the evening I give him dry with either raw of cooked meat (not much just enough to make it interesting for him and he eats half then has the other half just before bed....


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't think he needs half a meal at breakfast, then a snack at lunchtime and dinner. We tried feeding Teddy twice a day but he stopped eating his breakfast after a while so he now just gets a snack after the morning walk and has his main meal at dinner time.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

A friend's greyhound will sometimes have a fasting day, usually when she is gurgly, sloppy poo etc. Next day, back to normal.

Jack hasn't eaten his breakfast this morning but he had a couple of raw pork ribs about an hour after his tea so he is probably not hungry. I have put his wet in the fridge and put some dry in his bowl so he can have that whenever he wants. 

If he doesn't eat it come tea time it will be mixed with the wet from this morning and that will be his dinner.

Would Muttly not eat during the night if he felt hungry and you had left some food down for him?

If his normal tea time is 7pm and he gets breakfast 7.40am maybe that's too long for his tum?

I would stop feeding him on walks if that is causing you both a bit of anxiety. Use play or praise as his reward.

As you say he is a little over his ideal weight just take a step back and try not to stress over his eating.

Find a food that you don't mind leaving down - raw and wet are difficult because of flies, etc. But I use a dry food for this with no issues.

Strict meal times and rules may work for some people/dogs, but not for everyone.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Hector never used to eat and I would get stressed and I ended up feeding by hand every night, what cured him was bringing Hilde home and finding a food he likes, I have never managed to get him to eat a proper breakfast even from being a wee pup, so they gets 1/2 a Rodeo Treat or a Gravy bone for breakfast otherwise he gets rumbly tum, they get a few treats on our walk around lunchtime, they then get their dinner 8pm with a few leftovers mainly veg somedays other days it's just plain biscuits (Canagan Country Game) and then they get a Mini Markie or Gravy Bone at bedtime to stop the early morning pukes.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

My dogs are not likely to turn down anything so I don't have anything to relate too. The only time Jack has refused food was when he had a stomach infection. So my advice would be to have a full vet check first. Jack's only symptom was refusal of food. 

I have had several dogs stay with me of whom have this issue. I did what others are suggesting - down for 5-10 minutes, if they don't eat, it gets taken up. Out of all the dogs, OH's Benjie was the one who took about 5 days before he ate.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Some days my dogs will have just one meal a day and sometimes two. It all depends on what we're doing. On days when we're doing or going to training I skip their breakfast because of all the treats they'll be getting and give them their dinner slightly earlier in the evening. 

Today because I have to wait in for a delivery to arrive at some unspecified time I gave them breakfast this morning. Tonight I'll put their evening meal down slightly later, probably about 6.30 which I doubt either of them will do much more than nibble at until nearly midnight! 

My two get a good mix of food mainly home cooked but also kibble and canned wet food as well as raw, plus eggs. fish, cheese and yoghourt or kefir. They love their food and provided the weather isn't too hot I leave it down and let them choose when to eat and the majority of the time even if their bowls are full when I go to bed they'll be empty by morning!


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

SLB said:


> My dogs are not likely to turn down anything so I don't have anything to relate too. The only time Jack has refused food was when he had a stomach infection. So my advice would be to have a full vet check first. Jack's only symptom was refusal of food.
> 
> I have had several dogs stay with me of whom have this issue. I did what others are suggesting - down for 5-10 minutes, if they don't eat, it gets taken up. Out of all the dogs, OH's Benjie was the one who took about 5 days before he ate.


Bless Benjie!

It took my friend's shih Tzu 1/2 a day to realise that her food would be going away and not be left down when staying here...and she even did a happy dance as we called her for meal times. I recorded and sent it to my friend...who cried because she loved her enthusiasm to eat, something she never sees in her.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

lullabydream said:


> No they are not...but with dog with digestive issues,which are vast and I am including things like liver problems too...the first thing you do is give small regular meals. Usually 4. Which is what Muttly has...and he still rumbles, well there may be something more going on there.
> 
> Toy breeds its often a good idea to feed 3 meals a day, for blood sugar levels. They can crash quickly, so technically mine get 3 meals a day, one being a chew/kong. Whereas the chew my larger dogs get are just snacks, albeit the same size to some extent.
> 
> One of my dogs eats once a day, because that's what suits him. So I have no qualms about how often you feed a dog.


Errr we dont know he actually has digestive issues, he's just not eating as much or what Muttly's mum would like, and has on occasion had hunger pukes, through not eating. I'm not saying dont feed little and often but in my mind cutting back on food most of the time would encourage a dog to actually eat/ finish a meal, which i know is hard when they seem to not want to eat at all.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

lullabydream said:


> Bless Benjie!
> 
> It took my friend's shih Tzu 1/2 a day to realise that her food would be going away and not be left down when staying here...and she even did a happy dance as we called her for meal times. I recorded and sent it to my friend...who cried because she loved her enthusiasm to eat, something she never sees in her.


My sisters dog learnt fairly quickly too. As did a few others. I think having the other dogs around added to their "must eat before taken away".


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think he's unwell. He's bright eyed, poo is normal and regular, bouncing about, playing chase with me and playing with plastic bottles, drinking ok.
> He was sick yesterday, but I do think that was the heat. As 2 hours later he happily ate a frozen kong and no sickness since. Other than that, we have never had sickness during these periods.


Surely he isn't well if the tummy issue is making him uncomfortable. The Border Terrier who I walk, never went off her food, didn't lose weight, wasn't sick and apart from when she was in pain(about 3 times a week) when she would suddenly stand still, look back at her tummy and sometimes stretch with all four feet stretched out, she played as normal

How often is Muttly having issues?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies 

I went home for lunch and he hasn't touched the sardines and kibble 

He greeted me really excited today, with lovely licks on my cheek :Happy and had a big waggy tail when I gave him his Greenie, which he took out to the garden and ate, then, the cheeky bugger went off and dug up a Greenie from yesterday and ate that too 

I had no idea that so many of you had dogs that eat at random times or miss meals, all I keep hearing is "my dog would be very ill if it ever refused a meal, blah blah blah" "They get fed twice a day and that's that" yeah I would love a dog like that!

I know I have made mistakes with Muttly, but I can't help but give in when I see him so unhappy and I don't know if his belly hurts or not. I struggle to be hard on him.

I really don't think he is ill. I have to be a bit careful of rushing to the vets before trying everything (of course if I had to then I would!) because if I do and in the future he gets anything stomach related, they won't pay out, ever!
I have to change my policy to lifetime first.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

SLB said:


> My sisters dog learnt fairly quickly too. As did a few others. I think having the other dogs around added to their "must eat before taken away".


I've stayed at my parents quite a bit and tried this. Muttly just sits and watches their dogs eat his bowl of food  It's a waste and he doesn't care unfortunatly.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rona said:


> Surely he isn't well if the tummy issue is making him uncomfortable. The Border Terrier who I walk, never went off her food, didn't lose weight, wasn't sick and apart from when she was in pain(about 3 times a week) when she would suddenly stand still, look back at her tummy and sometimes stretch with all four feet stretched out.
> 
> How often is Muttly having issues?


I would say once a week. But other times he can go for a month with no issues. He has had some chopping about with different kinds of meat, trying to find what he actually likes. I have used 3 suppliers in 4 months. The longest serving food he has had is the Lily Kitchen kibble, which he has as walks treats.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Thanks for all the replies
> 
> I went home for lunch and he hasn't touched the sardines and kibble
> 
> ...


ya see to me - he wanted his greenie (x2 - naughty monkey), you gave it to him. I'd have put the kibble/ sardines back down (having picked it up this morning when he didnt eat it.
Do you often feed kibble ? just that kibble and raw mixed can, with some dogs cause digestion issues.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Muttly said:


> I would say once a week. But other times he can go for a month with no issues. He has had some chopping about with different kinds of meat, trying to find what he actually likes. I have used 3 suppliers in 4 months. The longest serving food he has had is the Lily Kitchen kibble, which he has as walks treats.


Oh I got the impression that it was more frequent


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Also is he alone in the house when he's supposed to be eating? Or does it not matter if you are there or not?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> ya see to me - he wanted his greenie (x2 - naughty monkey), you gave it to him. I'd have put the kibble/ sardines back down (having picked it up this morning when he didnt eat it.
> Do you often feed kibble ? just that kibble and raw mixed can, with some dogs cause digestion issues.


Well, it has varied (again). My system was 30 g of kibble in a kong in the morning with a sprinkle of cheese, if anything was left I would take it on our evening walk (as other training treats were making him chunky). Raw dinner goes down at 6pm, rarely gets eaten then, if it doesn't, I give it back to him at 8:30pm after his walk.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Lexiedhb said:


> Errr we dont know he actually has digestive issues, he's just not eating as much or what Muttly's mum would like, and has on occasion had hunger pukes, through not eating. I'm not saying dont feed little and often but in my mind cutting back on food most of the time would encourage a dog to actually eat/ finish a meal, which i know is hard when they seem to not want to eat at all.


Its not the hunger pukes, it was the loud rumbling of the stomach that was a problem.
Anyone can give a handful of biscuits before bed to help sickness early morning.
It was the growling noises of the stomach, very frequently that worried Muttly the dog, and kept bolting. This was on a previous thread. So I presume some advised little and often feeding..
which is happening. At the time the problem wasn't feeding per se...but the rumbling noise...which many people I think have suggested could be colitis thing. Am not sure...am just going on what's been said here, small meals, past threads here and food and nutrition with a constant rumbling tum whether he eats or not.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Well, it has varied (again). My system was 30 g of kibble in a kong in the morning with a sprinkle of cheese, if anything was left I would take it on our evening walk (as other training treats were making him chunky). Raw dinner goes down at 6pm, rarely gets eaten then, if it doesn't, I give it back to him at 8:30pm after his walk.


I mean technically loads of people feed a mix of kibble and raw with no issues, in separate meals, or even the same meal, but some dogs (only going on what i have read online about others experiences) really struggle with having both


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Muttly said:


> Thanks for all the replies
> 
> I went home for lunch and he hasn't touched the sardines and kibble
> 
> ...


I wonder if you, having lived with your parents and their Goldens who will eat anything and everything, you are just not used to seeing dogs that don't want/need to eat as much certain other well known breeds.

I've not had a picky dog at all and am always amazed hearing about dogs who don't have quite the same feelings about food like my Goldens.

I think there is a chance that due to your fears that he needs to eat and your trying to encourage him to eat by giving him food at every oppourtunity or by pandering to him by giving him something else if he rufuses to eat his meal (think fussy child here) you have encouraged him to be fussy over food.

How many times a day do you give him food of any description?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rona said:


> Oh I got the impression that it was more frequent


Ah right, yeah a lot of the time he is a happy little lad and eats ok (not 100% but ok), but he gets these times when he does this. 
I can't put my finger on what is triggering them. Although this time I think it was the beef, he's not keen on it and this is what he reluctantly ate on his walk at about half 9 yesterday morning (my day off), then lunchtime he brought it all back up.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

lullabydream said:


> Its not the hunger pukes, it was the loud rumbling of the stomach that was a problem.
> Anyone can give a handful of biscuits before bed to help sickness early morning.
> It was the growling noises of the stomach, very frequently that worried Muttly the dog, and kept bolting. This was on a previous thread. So I presume some advised little and often feeding..
> which is happening. At the time the problem wasn't feeding per se...but the rumbling noise...which many people I think have suggested could be colitis thing. Am not sure...am just going on what's been said here, small meals, past threads here and food and nutrition with a constant rumbling tum whether he eats or not.


 Ohhh I thought she just said above that it happened about once a week, not constantly.......... would seem to me he is worried about the noise rather than in pain, if he is generally "normal"


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

rona said:


> Oh I got the impression that it was more frequent


I thought that too


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> Also is he alone in the house when he's supposed to be eating? Or does it not matter if you are there or not?


No, my OH works from home so he's not alone much. But he will go off an eat on his own if he wants it. Doesn't seem to matter to him if we are there or not.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> No, my OH works from home so he's not alone much. But he will go off an eat on his own if he wants it. Doesn't seem to matter to him if we are there or not.


Just wondered as he has a bit of SA doesnt he? (the sleeping with you thing) Dex wont eat a kong until I get home if I have given him one to keep him occupied whilst I'm out, touch of SA too - but if it matters not if you are there then he's just a fussy monster!


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Lexiedhb said:


> Ohhh I thought she just said above that it happened about once a week, not constantly.......... would seem to me he is worried about the noise rather than in pain, if he is generally "normal"


Just catching up...
I got the impression it was more often too, with several posts...

However my dog acted pretty normal with a liver problem even though she dropped half her body weight so it can be hard to judge some dogs are drama queens and some are stoic buggers.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

lullabydream said:


> Just catching up...
> I got the impression it was more often too, with several posts...
> 
> However my dog acted pretty normal with a liver problem even though she dropped half her body weight so it can be hard to judge some dogs are drama queens and some are stoic buggers.


I'm actually quite glad I have a drama Llama, (fix it mummy, it hurts so so so bad - for you know standing on a thistle) must be so hard when they dont show pain......... if Dexter ever stops eating their is 110% a huge problem somewhere.......


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> Just wondered as he has a bit of SA doesnt he? (the sleeping with you thing) Dex wont eat a kong until I get home if I have given him one to keep him occupied whilst I'm out, touch of SA too - but if it matters not if you are there then he's just a fussy monster!


He's a complicated lad, if we ALL go out, then there's not a chance he we eat. One of us needs to be somewhere in the house, but not in the same room


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Lexiedhb said:


> I'm actually quite glad I have a drama Llama, (fix it mummy, it hurts so so so bad - for you know standing on a thistle) must be so hard when they dont show pain......... if Dexter ever stops eating their is 110% a huge problem somewhere.......


No if mine stop eating I know there is a problem, but can act normal in every other way!
Although if I lose my appetite there is something wrong too!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> He's a complicated lad, if we ALL go out, then there's not a chance he we eat. One of us needs to be somewhere in the house, but not in the same room


Dex is the same actually....... unless there is something uber amazeballs in said kong he's been left with


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Alfie is funny at evening meals....he will take a mouthful then take it to the middle of the kitchen and eat it then sit and look at me...I then have to wave my hand and say "continue " and he dives in and eats half the contents of his bowl......

Now I've never consciously trained him to do it and for the life of me can't even remember when it started but in the evenings he will sit and wait....One evening the phone rang and I went to get it sat in the living room for about 20 minutes talking to my mum when I came out he was sat there in the middle of the kitchen waiting for me to say "continue"


The strangest thing is in the mornings he doesn't bother with it he just eats when the bowl goes down....think my dog is broken lol


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> Ohhh I thought she just said above that it happened about once a week, not constantly.......... would seem to me he is worried about the noise rather than in pain, if he is generally "normal"


The noise does freak him out yup. He will go and lie down, then gurgle, then jump up like he's trying to run away from it. He was doing this this morning, but when I said "Wanna go walkies boy?" he was a spring lamb! 
He woke me up this morning at 6am, licking my face to tell me he wasn't feeling right and need to get up.

Sorry for confusing everyone! 

His meals go like this:

7:40am - 30g kibble in a kong

12pm - Greenie

4pm - OH gives him a tiny treat when kid gets some sweets (not always as depends if lil un has been good at school lol)

6pm - 120g raw in bowl.

11pm - Tiny treat before bed.

Can 150g of food really be too much though? He's 7.2kgs and has an hour and a half of exercise per day. Plus playing at home.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I don't know about raw, but with my two who are heftier than Muttly only get around 90grams of Kibble for their dinner, and I reduce this if they have had lots of treats or have leftovers, but they do also gets their snacks for breakfast and supper, and I could possibly do with cutting their treats or kibble down further as the aren't very lean


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

If he's gained weight and not maintained then, some of his daily ration can be cut down yes I would think so!

I prefer to have dogs maintaining their weight, and its not as if you are not rigorous with exercise is it!

Amount you feed obviously all depend on your dog...Stan and Eevee are approximately the same weight, are as active as each other Eevee is 2 years younger but cannot have as much as Stan because she becomes a weeble on legs quickly. I do not want my chis to be the stereotypical small head fat body, no thank you!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I found with Rupert that the more I faffed around and tried to get him to eat the worse he was. He was never a good eater bit if left to his own devices he didn't starve. I did free feed though as he liked to graze and being considerably underweight I wanted him eating as much as possible. 

Has he had a vet check to rule out medical issues?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Wow, I guess it could do with being reduced then!He did get back to 6.8kgs when he was eating well on the above plan. But I didn't always weigh it, so maybe I was feeding less.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> I found with Rupert that the more I faffed around and tried to get him to eat the worse he was. He was never a good eater bit if left to his own devices he didn't starve. I did free feed though as he liked to graze and being considerably underweight I wanted him eating as much as possible.
> 
> Has he had a vet check to rule out medical issues?


He had a vet check a few months ago and a wee sample was tested. He has been like this for a while and certainly at the time he had the vet check.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

MontyMaude said:


> I don't know about raw, but with my two who are heftier than Muttly only get around 90grams of Kibble for their dinner, and I reduce this if they have had lots of treats or have leftovers, but they do also gets their snacks for breakfast and supper, and I could possibly do with cutting their treats or kibble down further as the aren't very lean


Am sat with Cleo...90g of kibble would be heaven...poor girl gets 20g, and 40g of wet...she's greedy enough to eat 90g too...

She's a lot smaller than your two...feeding guidelines are something like 80g though...she would never be able to walk let alone run if I stuck to that!


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Perhaps he's just a picky lad (Muttly by way sent you a PM have a read  )


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I dont mean to be rude but .....

If he didnt eat his kibble, what on earth did you give him a greenie for ?!?!?

Think of it a bit like a child - you dont fill them up with sweets if they refuse to eat a balanced dinner, even if they haven't eaten for a day !


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Wow, I guess it could do with being reduced then!He did get back to 6.8kgs when he was eating well on the above plan. But I didn't always weigh it, so maybe I was feeding less.


I must admit I weigh my food...i do have toy breeds and it may be anal of me but sometimes a kibble piece can weigh 3g, having a couple extra kibble pieces can add up to an extra third of a meal for mine!

Well a third of a meal, over each day can be a lot can be a lot on tiny joints!

Sometimes I look in the bowl and I think, am not feeding them anything! So I choose not to feed cold pressed food, because the mini beasts certainly don't get hardly thing, and plus Stan and Eevee have their evening meals in activity toys so it wouldn't work. Logically though their food is energy dense, so that's a good thing.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

labradrk said:


> Honestly if he's been on raw, tinned, kibble and you've been adding extras and he's still picking at all, he's having you on. I would stop pandering to it. A healthy dog will not starve itself, but they may skip meals if they think they'll get something like cheese or goats milk instead. Put the food down, leave it for 5 minutes, pick it up. He gets nothing until the next feeding time. Even my Tilly who would LIKE to be fussy and would if she could, will eat whatever is put in front of her. On the very odd occasion she skips a meal it will get picked up and she'll get nothing until the next one.
> 
> I found when I fed raw mine were always hungry. They are much more satisfied on dried/tinned food, and get a big biscuit of a handful of kibble before bed to stop the nighttime pukes.


This has summed up what I was going to say. A natural scavenger like a dog is not going to starve itself to death, and since you've said Muttly has put on weight and his poos are fine then I really cant see a problem. I would stop worrying about whether he is eating enough or getting a gurgly stomach, and I certainly wouldnt be bribing him to eat with high value food all the time as this is what he'll come to expect, and it seems like it's reached that stage already.

One of mine used to be very fussy as a youngster but they have long since realised that if they are given something then thats their lot, there are no other options available apart from going hungry. Having 2 other dogs there to put pressure on them does ensure that nothing gets left but having been fed a very varied diet all their lives, there isnt much they wont eat.

Part of the reason I stopped raw feeding is that it just wasnt suiting Flynn, he'd get hunger pukes twice a day, even when I upped his meals to 3 with a bedtime snack, and it gave him a very noisy stomach. Dry and wet satisfies him much more.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> I dont mean to be rude but .....
> 
> If he didnt eat his kibble, what on earth did you give him a greenie for ?!?!?
> 
> Think of it a bit like a child - you dont fill them up with sweets if they refuse to eat a balanced dinner, even if they haven't even for a day !


Didn't think of it like that!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

@Muttly, i really dont want to upset you but seriously, you need to stop all this extra stuff.

Meals only. Eat it or not, there is NOTHING else. Find something super tasty and stick with that. No exceptions.

I didnt realise reading the initial post that this was the problem but honestly, its exactly what the problem is. He knows he can pick and choose what he fancies today because he has an owner that will run round in circles providing what ever he does fancy and will starve himself until it is provided, yes even making himself not well with the gurgly tummy.

You would not allow a child do this so why are you letting Muttly do it ?

Sorry .....


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Don't be sorry @Westie Mum So you think I should stick it out with him refusing, even when he's gurgling and freaking out? Not try and give him anything to help it, just his normal food.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Don't be sorry @Westie Mum So you think I should stick it out with him refusing, even when he's gurgling and freaking out? Not try and give him anything to help it, just his normal food.


Yes just normal DOG food. No treats.

Like I said, Poppy has been having empty tummy but she doesn't refuse what is put down. It's that or nothing.

If he isn't enjoying raw that's fine. Swop to wet or kibble or both. But you have to be consistent.

If he eats both meals and still has gurgling then by all means give him something before bed, but not in replacement to his meals.


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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

You could try offering something boring like a plain dog biscuit, to avoid gurgle tum, if he doesn't eat his normal food but best to 
resist offering something better or he'll carry on being fussy


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Muttly...does he actually get a good raw diet?

I do think Leanne77 has been through it with Flynn and she tried 6 years on raw, but she knows kibble and wet, suits him better.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

lullabydream said:


> Muttly...does he actually get a good raw diet?
> 
> I do think Leanne77 has been through it with Flynn and she tried 6 years on raw, but she knows kibble and wet, suits him better.


Well, I think I give him a good raw diet, but maybe I'm not?

I will be changing it and giving more kibble, he wasn't eating the wet when we first brought him home (but it was Winalot) so ill have a look into some decent wet food.
Kinda hard to know what he doesn;t like and what he's just being fussy about though.


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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

Further to the other thread about Greenies I'd stop giving them to him & pick something more digestible

My 3 like Naturediet & Forthglade which I think are good foods so maybe try them? I'm sure the raw diet you are giving him is good but if it doesn't
seem to agree with him praps try something else...


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

lullabydream said:


> Muttly...does he actually get a good raw diet?
> 
> I do think Leanne77 has been through it with Flynn and she tried 6 years on raw, but she knows kibble and wet, suits him better.


Wow, you have a good memory and pay attention to detail! I persisted for 6 years because I thought raw was the be all and end all but there just came a point where I had to face up to the fact it wasnt the best option. However, Flynn is extremely food orientated and would sell his soul for a single piece of kibble so getting food down him was never an issue, it was Jed who was the fussy one. He'd sniff something I offered him like it was dog muck and I will say this for raw - an extremely varied diet of anything and everything kind of sorted that issue out. Jessie was never into fruit or veg but she'll happily eat it without issue now because it was a regular thing on the menu.

I can kind of see where the worry comes from though with a dog who just isnt food orientated and will often refuse food. I am an extremely picky eater myself and have had a lifetime of people trying to stuff different foods down my throat, or fuss over the fact that I havent eaten what i'm supposed to eat (force fed marmalade on toast as a kid, attempting to be conned into thinking mashed swede is just orange potato, even resorting to spreading a forkful of food around my plate to make it look like i've eaten a full meal) so from that perspective, i'm quite mean to make my dogs eat whatever I give them lol.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> The noise does freak him out yup. He will go and lie down, then gurgle, then jump up like he's trying to run away from it. He was doing this this morning, but when I said "Wanna go walkies boy?" he was a spring lamb!
> He woke me up this morning at 6am, licking my face to tell me he wasn't feeling right and need to get up.
> 
> Sorry for confusing everyone!
> ...


 If he was on full raw at 2% of ideal weight, call it 7kg he'd only need 140g............ so yeah maybe it is simply too much, especially if he has put on weight recently.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I use varying brands of kibble and one of the most appetising in terms of the smell is Vets Kitchen grain free, it smells absolutely lovely (one of the worst smelling brands is anything from Millies Wolfheart imo) so might be worth trying Muttly on that. Putting warm water over it should also increase the appeal. The bonus is you can buy Vets Kitchen in Tesco.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> Wow, you have a good memory and pay attention to detail! I persisted for 6 years because I thought raw was the be all and end all but there just came a point where I had to face up to the fact it wasnt the best option. However, Flynn is extremely food orientated and would sell his soul for a single piece of kibble so getting food down him was never an issue, it was Jed who was the fussy one. He'd sniff something I offered him like it was dog muck and I will say this for raw - an extremely varied diet of anything and everything kind of sorted that issue out. Jessie was never into fruit or veg but she'll happily eat it without issue now because it was a regular thing on the menu.
> 
> I can kind of see where the worry comes from though with a dog who just isnt food orientated and will often refuse food. I am an extremely picky eater myself and have had a lifetime of people trying to stuff different foods down my throat, or fuss over the fact that I havent eaten what i'm supposed to eat (force fed marmalade on toast as a kid, attempting to be conned into thinking mashed swede is just orange potato, even resorting to spreading a forkful of food around my plate to make it look like i've eaten a full meal) so from that perspective, i'm quite mean to make my dogs eat whatever I give them lol.


Problem is he's not eating kibble either - so I dont think its the choice of food thats the issue....


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Don't be sorry @Westie Mum So you think I should stick it out with him refusing, even when he's gurgling and freaking out? Not try and give him anything to help it, just his normal food.


 He's freaking out because of the NOISE, not because he's in pain IMO (I say this as you said he ran away from you when your stomach rumbled) - he needs to suck it up and learn the nasty noise goes away if he eats his dinner!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Im not an expert in Pancreatitis by any means - but surely he wouldnt want to eat at all, rather than just be picky with what he is eating ? i.e. wont eat his dinner but will eat a kong or cheese.


Yesterday we were at the vets with Colt who is just a bit off, nothing major or specific a bit lethargic around the house (could be heat) drinking a bit more than usual (still could be heat) and trying to eat copious amounts of grass all the time. He is otherwise bright, looks good and is active on his walks. First thing vet wanted to check for in blood tests was pancreatitis which thankfully was negative.



Muttly said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think he's unwell. He's bright eyed, poo is normal and regular, bouncing about, playing chase with me and playing with plastic bottles, drinking ok.
> He was sick yesterday, but I do think that was the heat. As 2 hours later he happily ate a frozen kong and no sickness since. Other than that, we have never had sickness during these periods.


I seriously would have him vet checked and blood tested. The not eating wouldn't bother me so much as the gurgling tummy thing that unsettles him. As I've said above Colt looks well had bright eyes, normal poo and is bouncy/energetic enough out on walks but I can tell something is not quite right with him so took him to the vet yesterday and they did a thorough check over and blood tests which have shown some sort of kidney problem which is being investigated further. I wish I had taken him sooner now.



Lexiedhb said:


> I mean technically loads of people feed a mix of kibble and raw with no issues, in separate meals, or even the same meal, but some dogs (only going on what i have read online about others experiences) really struggle with having both


Mine get just raw in the morning and a mixture of kibble and raw in the evenings (apart from Indie who only has the raw) - they do fine on it - the boys better than on just raw.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Lexiedhb said:


> He's freaking out because of the NOISE, not because he's in pain IMO (I say this as you said he ran away from you when your stomach rumbled) - he needs to suck it up and learn the nasty noise goes away if he eats his dinner!


I ran in a heavily pregnant way when I was in labour to try and ease the pain...a bit like movement is good for period pains..

Tess either stays in her cramped position or moves fast with her colitis pain.

Its one of those things...with pain or just noise because dogs don't talk we can't guarantee there is no pain. Muttly's mum hears the noise, muttly moves...does not mean there is not an underlying pain. Its all assumptions.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Leanne77 said:


> I use varying brands of kibble and one of the most appetising in terms of the smell is Vets Kitchen grain free, it smells absolutely lovely (one of the worst smelling brands is anything from Millies Wolfheart imo) so might be worth trying Muttly on that. Putting warm water over it should also increase the appeal. The bonus is you can buy Vets Kitchen in Tesco.


Is this why when my friend's shih Tzu came to stay, my dogs were very inquisitive in her food being dished up instead of their own!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Mine get just raw in the morning and a mixture of kibble and raw in the evenings (apart from Indie who only has the raw) - they do fine on it - the boys better than on just raw.


which is EXACTLY why I made absolutely sure I said SOME dogs...........


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Muttly said:


> Can 150g of food really be too much though? He's 7.2kgs and has an hour and a half of exercise per day. Plus playing at home.


I split a 150g sachet of wet food between all 3 of our dogs, and I sometimes think I've given the little guys (8kg) too much of it :Shamefullyembarrased


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The key difference here I think is that he is _choosing_ to eat i.e the greenies and other high value titbits so he is not point blank refusing food which would be more worrying. I have to agree with @Westie Mum that I think you're playing into his game a bit @Muttly. I can appreciate you not wanting to think of him as hungry or ill when his belly starts gurgling, but I think you're going to have to be a bit firmer about this. I would do as suggested already in that his food gets offered, if not eaten then it's taken back up until meal time and NO other treats in between. When he's _truly _hungry he will then eat


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Well, I think I give him a good raw diet, but maybe I'm not?
> 
> I will be changing it and giving more kibble, he wasn't eating the wet when we first brought him home (but it was Winalot) so ill have a look into some decent wet food.
> Kinda hard to know what he doesn;t like and what he's just being fussy about though.


I have a load of Applaws pate here that Bungo can not eat, I could send you a few trays if you like, if interested PM me and I'll tell you what I have, the ingredients etc.



rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yesterday we were at the vets with Colt who is just a bit off, nothing major or specific a bit lethargic around the house (could be heat) drinking a bit more than usual (still could be heat) and trying to eat copious amounts of grass all the time. He is otherwise bright, looks good and is active on his walks. First thing vet wanted to check for in blood tests was pancreatitis which thankfully was negative.
> 
> I seriously would have him vet checked and blood tested. The not eating wouldn't bother me so much as the gurgling tummy thing that unsettles him. As I've said above Colt looks well had bright eyes, normal poo and is bouncy/energetic enough out on walks but I can tell something is not quite right with him so took him to the vet yesterday and they did a thorough check over and blood tests which have shown some sort of kidney problem which is being investigated further. I wish I had taken him sooner now.
> 
> Mine get just raw in the morning and a mixture of kibble and raw in the evenings (apart from Indie who only has the raw) - they do fine on it - the boys better than on just raw.


I hope the kidney problem isn't too serious. Please let us know the results. I'll be thinking of Colt and you. x


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Gurgling/rumbling noises from a dog are most often bowel related.

Rosie has IBD and, when she has a flare up, she gurgles and absolutely will not eat.

I would say that, at 7.2 kg, Muttly is on the heavy side, so strictly speaking, is being overfed.

I'm afraid I would try some 'tough love' too. The extras, such as Primula, are not going to help, particularly with a dog that has little appetite, and you becoming a litte anxious yourself and trying to hand feed him may well be causing him to feel anxious when food appears.

I would put down a bowl of something you know he likes, give him twenty minutes and remove anything he hasn't eaten. I would feed him twice a day.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I've been out and now catching up.

I think he's being overfed too, Isla doesn't get a great deal more kibble weight, she does get a few more treats which is why her meals are smaller, nevertheless she weighs about 32 kgs, although I think she's a little under that at the moment.

As has been mentioned, I think a bit of tough love is needed. Cut out the greenies and just give a small dry dog biscuit, which is all Isla has if we leave her.

Don't really know about the tummy rumbling situation, it does sound as if it's the noise rather then pain. I f it was pain I would have thought you would have seen him hunching his back or doing weird stretching movements.
Isla's tum rumbles from time to time (as does mine) and she will sometimes stare at where the noise is coming from,mherself rather then me


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Gurgling/rumbling noises from a dog are most often bowel related.
> 
> Rosie has IBD and, when she has a flare up, she gurgles and absolutely will not eat.
> 
> ...


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> which is EXACTLY why I made absolutely sure I said SOME dogs...........


I know I didn't mention it to contradict you but to show that SOME dogs are absolutely fine on a mixture of the two.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Does anyone think 100g per day is ok for a 7kg dog then?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Muttly said:


> The noise does freak him out yup. He will go and lie down, then gurgle, then jump up like he's trying to run away from it. He was doing this this morning, but when I said "Wanna go walkies boy?" he was a spring lamb!
> He woke me up this morning at 6am, licking my face to tell me he wasn't feeling right and need to get up.
> 
> Sorry for confusing everyone!
> ...


It isn't just the 150g of food though really.

You have to add in what he has in his kong, treats, primula and his greenie, (whatever that is).

He is half Chihuahua, isn't he, and probably just does not need much food in a day. He may well be filling up from his treats/extras and simply not need any more.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I don't normally weigh their food out because the recommended amount is always far too much, but I've just weighed what Freddie will have tonight, and Danny will have a bit less








Poor boys, bet they hate me 
They'll have the veggie tin shared between the 3 of them, that's a 200g tin. They have some treats throughout the day, and I only increase their food if they've been working particularly hard, like tomorrow when they've been for a run.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sweety said:


> It isn't just the 150g of food though really.
> 
> You have to add in what he has in his kong, treats, primula and his greenie, (whatever that is).
> 
> He is half Chihuahua, isn't he, and probably just does not need much food in a day. He may well be filling up from his treats/extras and simply not need any more.


He is yes. I think @Siskin is right, I am still in the mindset of dogs will eat everything they see, if they could! I never thought that the treats would make much difference, as they are small. Even though I advise peple to count this in, but don;t think myself. Oh god :Facepalm
Greenies - https://www.amazon.com/GREENIES-Dental-Treats-Teenie-Original/dp/B001G96UK8


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Does anyone think 100g per day is ok for a 7kg dog then?


Ripley is 7 ananalf; she gets about 40 - 50g dry and maybe 100g (couple of spoons!!) wet with nothing else.

**thats for the day, not per meal


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I dont even think my collies get more than 100g per meal!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

BlueJay said:


> Ripley is 7 ananalf; she gets about 40 - 50g dry and maybe 100g (couple of spoons!!) wet with nothing else.


Poppy is 7.6 and she gets 50g alpha spirit for breakfast and a third of a tray/tin for dinner so 133g ish and a treat at night, like Fish skins or something else low fat. If they have a Kong, it comes out of their wet food allowance.



Leanne77 said:


> I dont even think my collies get more than 100g per meal!


Depends what you feed though. Wet is a lot more and different kibble is different amounts.


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

Hi Muttly,

My personal opinion is I would stop Raw feeding and go to either Kibble or wet.

Then decide how much he is getting daily and split between 2 meals. One in a morning and one in the evening. THATS IT.

Dont give in to puppy eyes, gurgling tummys etc... NO TREATS.

He needs to know meal times are meal times and there is nothing else.

Put the food down for 10 minutes. Then remove. Thats it.

Yep you will feel cruel. Yep this may go on a while but he WILL get the message.

Muttly and You need to get out of bad habbits 

Tonight I will weigh what Penny has food wise for you. She is 6.6 in weight.

Xxxxx


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> The key difference here I think is that he is _choosing_ to eat i.e the greenies and other high value titbits so he is not point blank refusing food which would be more worrying. I have to agree with @Westie Mum that I think you're playing into his game a bit @Muttly. I can appreciate you not wanting to think of him as hungry or ill when his belly starts gurgling, but I think you're going to have to be a bit firmer about this. I would do as suggested already in that his food gets offered, if not eaten then it's taken back up until meal time and NO other treats in between. When he's _truly _hungry he will then eat


This would be my option too. If he were refusing ALL food I'd be concerned but let's face it, he's eating enough to have gained weight... But the fact he's picking and choosing what he'll eat makes me think he's holding out for the stuff he really wants. Rupert used to do it and we'd go through everything we had in (seriously, we had a cupboard full of different foods!) to see what he'd eat that day. The vet and a behaviourist both advised us to pick a food and stick to it, 15 minutes to eat then pick it up, no treats between meals or anything extra added (Rupe had been fully cleared by the vet, had all sorts of tests done as he was so thin vet was concerned about underlying causes). It worked to some extent. In the end we moved to free feeding as he really seemed to prefer little and often but we kept his food the same.

Have you spoken to the vet about his eating?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Does anyone think 100g per day is ok for a 7kg dog then?


100g of what? Spen only gets 300g of kibble per day at 33kg but 1kg of raw. And it depends very much on the dog. Rupert at a very lean 33kg ate 1.2kg of kibble per day and over 2kg of raw so there's no way to really say whether 100g of food is enough or too much for Muttly really, have to go by the dog you have in front of you.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I have never in my life weighed my lot's food so have no idea what they get on a daily basis. I'd say Missy's is probably around 30g 2x a day including a forkful of wet food too.



















That's all she gets bar bits of a cut up mini sausage for scatter games in the garden, and some dried Sprats/other small bite size treat at bedtime


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Does anyone think 100g per day is ok for a 7kg dog then?


I don't think anybody can really say. My Bailey is 10-10.5kg and he gets 100g of wet in the morning, a medium size kong full of Peanut butter/tinned fish at lunch and 125g of raw in the evening. I don't include his training treats in that. That means he must get 250-300g of food a day which may seem excessive to some, but it suits him fine and he is an ideal weight and if I feed less, he drops weight and goes to being 8/9kg when he is much better at 10-10.5kg.

I agree you need to stop feeding him treats and just focus on his meals for now though  When he starts eating properly, you can re add his treats and extras but meals come first


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## Tillystar (Jan 30, 2013)

I feed Tilly 70g-90g depending on which food she's currently on 75g pooch & mutt she's 10.4kg she does get a few tipbits when she's at parents a bedtime treats (she's had them since 10 weeks so she will always get these) and every other day a low fat dental treat

Today thou she's not eaten anything but this that's due to the heat


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2016)

I'm going to second, third the posts saying it's time to quit messing around. 

First, make sure there are no underlying medical issues going on. 
Then, put food down (I don't care what food, just some sort of dog food) give him a set time to eat it, and then take it up. He may go through an extinction burst with his food behavior (it will get worse before it gets better) but he's not going to starve. And honestly, if he has put on weight recently, it's not going to hurt him any to starve anyway.

My friend's sighthound is a picky eater. She struggles to get her to eat. Sighthound comes here, and since the dog and I have no history of struggling with food, it takes about 2 to 3 days, and she's eating like a champ. 
All visiting dogs eat in their crates. I put plain kibble in her bowl, put food and dog in the crate, leave, come back in 10 minutes, remove dog and whatever food is left. The first few times she eats nothing, maybe a token piece of kibble. After the third or 4th meal (2 days) she figures out the gig is up and goes to work eating. 
While she's here she also gets a lot of exercise and off leash running and playing with the other dogs that she normally doesn't get as much of at home, so that definitely helps with her appetite. I do give her treats for recall, but certainly it's not enough for a medium sized dog to live off, so she quickly learns to eat when it's offered. 

It may take Muttly longer because he already has a behavior history with you, but if you just make it a routine, he will catch on


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Think I've said before, I fed Heidi raw successfully for 3 years. She's 8.5kg and held her weight well with 130g. Poss 150g with treats. She was prone to nightime sickies - fine with a bedtime biscuit. Gradually the night sicks became more frequent even with biscuits.

In January it reached a peak. She was bringing up white froth during the day. I starved her thinking a bug. Made her a lot worse, Poor thing was in dreadful pain to the point I almost rang emergency vet a couple of times but it passed quickly. Started feeding chicken and rice little and often but took her to the vet. They said it was a bug, to continue As I was. No tum soreness or temperature. Zantac stopped working but feeding 2 hrly day and night helped a lot.

Raw wasn't enough to feed Heidi as frequently as she needed so she went from chicken and rice to Butchers cans. She isn't good with veg and I knew they suit her well. The original cans are solid meat but the rest in the packs are full of jelly and not as good so I changed to WW trays with 5% rice.

It's taken a long time to get her right. She was on 4 meals a day for ages, then 3 (always one before bed) and very recently 2 and a handful of kibble at bedtime.
I find charcoal biscuits and slippery elm a godsend. A charcoal biscuit sorts tummy rumbles almost immediately.

Can't say raw is to blame but sickies didn't start until then. Raw bones were nearly always sicked up in the night apart from chicken wings. I have a feeling more acid is produced when raw is fed which seems to be Heidi's downfall.
More acid, less food and an empty tum wasn't a good combo for her.

Hope you get Mutley back on track soon. It's such a worry.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Think I've said before, I fed Heidi raw successfully for 3 years. She's 8.5kg and held her weight well with 130g. Poss 150g with treats. She was prone to nightime sickies - fine with a bedtime biscuit. Gradually the night sicks became more frequent even with biscuits.
> 
> In January it reached a peak. She was bringing up white froth during the day. I starved her thinking a bug. Made her a lot worse, Poor thing was in dreadful pain to the point I almost rang emergency vet a couple of times but it passed quickly. Started feeding chicken and rice little and often but took her to the vet. They said it was a bug, to continue As I was. No tum soreness or temperature. Zantac stopped working but feeding 2 hrly day and night helped a lot.
> 
> ...


Raw totally isn't for every dog at all. Personally I think you under fed on raw, but then if she held a good weight perhaps not.
The ph of the stomach does have to lower, and become more acidic in order to digest bones on raw, so maybe that plays a part in promoting " hunger pukes" in certain dogs.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Lexiedhb said:


> Raw totally isn't for every dog at all. Personally I think you under fed on raw, but then if she held a good weight perhaps not.
> The ph of the stomach does have to lower, and become more acidic in order to digest bones on raw, so maybe that plays a part in promoting " hunger pukes" in certain dogs.


It was a strange scenario and although I feel raw is the best dog food I'm not going to risk trying it again.
Thought it worth a mention in case it helps Mutley. Possibly he needs less for his weight but more for his tum....


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

As promised. Ive weighed Pennys food.

She gets 60g kibble in a morning and the same in the pm. So 120g a day.

As a routine she doesnt get treats in the day. Games are rewarded with toys.

She is a nice weight the vet says when he sees her. Not over or under weight.

(Looks a lot but its a puppy bowl-In fact its about time she had a pink adult bowl isnt it!)










Sally gets about 70g Morning and Pm BUT she doesnt always eat her morning food, she isnt a big eater. I leave it down for 15 mins then take it up. She ALWAYS eats her evening meal though 

Molly & Pippa get 130g in a morning and the same in an evening (so 260g a day). If i feed any less in shows in their mood and behaviour. They go in the bins, eat cat litter and cat food if i dont keep my eye on them, which they dont do when fed this amount. Molly could do to loose a bit actually but vet said its not enough to be concerned.

Every dog is different, I dont think it goes on breed or anythinf. I think we just have to look at each individual. A bit like humans.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm another that says choose something he has eaten previously (and therefore likes) and stick with it - give him ten minutes and if it doesn't get eaten, take it up and offer nothing until the next meal time. No treats or snacks.

I wholeheartedly agree with @Burrowzig , he looks like he needs to loose weight anyway so he is obviously eating more than enough to satisfy him, if not you.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Do I think 150g per day is too much? plus treats, goats milk, primula [which i only use as a last defense training treat for difficult dogs] a frozen kong and only an hour and a half exercise
you bet I do
mine are fed morning and evening only raw
Falcor and Foglia get 120g *a day* in the hope that they both lose weight back to 6.5 - 6.8kg, doing it by eye will always be wrong, believe me! with three 1 hour walks [ admittedly at my slow pace] plus an around the block last thing at night
Thunder gets 600g* per day* and keeps her at a svelte 30kg, she gets two half hour walks [which at her age isnt very far] and a trot around the block last thing
they have no other treats whatsoever, and, training treats come out of their food allowance, they eat meaty bones/chicken wings/carcass as meals instead of greenies or dentastix as extras, and, kongs have meals in

I bought myself some stainless steel [cos they can be chucked in the dishwasher with their bowls] American measuring cups and i know now that 1 rounded cup is just right for Thunder and 1/3 level cup is the right amount for the min beasts,and, more importantly for me, how small that amount really is


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

BlueJay said:


> Ripley is 7 ananalf; she gets about 40 - 50g dry and maybe 100g (couple of spoons!!) wet with nothing else.
> 
> **thats for the day, not per meal


Really? Wow and Ripley looks amazing.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Gemmaa said:


> I don't normally weigh their food out because the recommended amount is always far too much, but I've just weighed what Freddie will have tonight, and Danny will have a bit less
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow!


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Think I've said before, I fed Heidi raw successfully for 3 years. She's 8.5kg and held her weight well with 130g. Poss 150g with treats. She was prone to nightime sickies - fine with a bedtime biscuit. Gradually the night sicks became more frequent even with biscuits.
> 
> In January it reached a peak. She was bringing up white froth during the day. I starved her thinking a bug. Made her a lot worse, Poor thing was in dreadful pain to the point I almost rang emergency vet a couple of times but it passed quickly. Started feeding chicken and rice little and often but took her to the vet. They said it was a bug, to continue As I was. No tum soreness or temperature. Zantac stopped working but feeding 2 hrly day and night helped a lot.
> 
> ...


This is a very interesting post, thank you. Muttly digs up charcoal in our garden (I have no idea why it's there, rented house ), he does the same at the beach.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Did someone already suggest this or was it somewhere else - probiotic yoghurt can help if his tummy is a little off?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

So people, thanks again for the replies.

Muttly refused his dinner last night. Had a tiny treat at bed time, which was 11pm. 1am he had us up, pacing, panting, trying to lie down, but then getting up again. He tried to cuddle with me in the bed, but couldn't stay still. Took him downstairs and offered his dinner, refused it.
Unfortunately it wasn't a meal he had eaten often, so I can't say he would of eaten it any other time. 

I gave him a bit of goat's milk, he had a tiny bit but not enough to work. He started shaking and belly grumbling and OH gave him half a biscuit. After a little while his belly calmed down and he settled down. He then started pacing again half hour later, belly noises and then burped (so guessing lack of food had given him trapped wind? OH gets this ALOT from not eating properly, so easy to recognise), after this he slept until morning. 

He was a bit weird this morning because he is still very empty, but he was also asking for his walk, I offered his kibble, but no. So he didn't get a walk. I have left it down in a kong. 
He will have a walk tonight and a new meal offered.

I have been thinking a lot and talking with OH and decided that Muttly is not a good raw candidate. I have 2 drawers of meat (new order arrived Tuesday  ), so what I'm going to do is, get some tinned stuff or whatever they have that has more bulking food like rice. I am going to take out a small portion of his raw meat and add this to the tinned food. This will be his dinner. But where he needs such a small portion, I may only have the choice of those 100g trays as I think a 400g tin will go off!
Muttly is not much of a veg fan, apart from the odd raw carrot for his teeth, so I need a food that's not got a load of veg in, or I will have the next problem of not being able to digest it and so eating his poo.

Yes, it's hard seeing your dog in discomfort, I wish I could tell him to just bloody eat and it will go away :Banghead


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

JoanneF said:


> Did someone already suggest this or was it somewhere else - probiotic yoghurt can help if his tummy is a little off?


They did, but I forgot thanks. I have some at home, but so many suggestions flying around my head.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I don't know the answer to this, maybe someone else will - but if you open a larger pack of wet food, can you freeze the rest in portions? It means you don't have to be restricted to silly sized trays


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> So people, thanks again for the replies.
> 
> Muttly refused his dinner last night. Had a tiny treat at bed time, which was 11pm. 1am he had us up, pacing, panting, trying to lie down, but then getting up again. He tried to cuddle with me in the bed, but couldn't stay still. Took him downstairs and offered his dinner, refused it.
> Unfortunately it wasn't a meal he had eaten often, so I can't say he would of eaten it any other time.
> ...


This is so so hard because technically you shouldnt have given him goats milk, or the biscuit if he refused his food, but I understand that in the middle of the night, when you have an uncomfortable dog, you do whatever it takes.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> This is so so hard because technically you shouldnt have given him goats milk, or the biscuit if he refused his food, but I understand that in the middle of the night, when you have an uncomfortable dog, you do whatever it takes.


This. Just beware of it becoming a habit. Things like that quickly become habit here. We've dealt with hunger pukes and it's been a case of really messing around with meal times to find what works. Spen now gets his dinner literally as we're heading to bed which means he lasts till morning instead of having me up being sick at 4am. We've never had a problem with him not eating though and Rupe never seemed to get a dodgy tummy from going days between meals.

Did you try him with his food before the goats milk and biscuit? I'd be avoiding milk personally as it's filling and can cause upset stomachs. Have you ever tried him on Chappie wet food? It's not the greatest but does seem to be one that a lot of dogs like, even fussy ones, and is gentle on the tummy.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I suggested Chappie my vet recommends it dogs seem to like it they like the smell of it I think and as sarah says its very gentle on the tummy


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> This. Just beware of it becoming a habit. Things like that quickly become habit here. We've dealt with hunger pukes and it's been a case of really messing around with meal times to find what works. Spen now gets his dinner literally as we're heading to bed which means he lasts till morning instead of having me up being sick at 4am. We've never had a problem with him not eating though and Rupe never seemed to get a dodgy tummy from going days between meals.
> 
> Did you try him with his food before the goats milk and biscuit? I'd be avoiding milk personally as it's filling and can cause upset stomachs. Have you ever tried him on Chappie wet food? It's not the greatest but does seem to be one that a lot of dogs like, even fussy ones, and is gentle on the tummy.


Yup, when we came downstairs I offered his dinner first before anything.
Thinking back, through the evening he kept going and sniffing his dinner and walking away. So he seemed hungry, but didn;t fancy that. He is really funny with fish most of the time tbh, but sometimes he does wolf down the mackeral, but this was sardines, thought they were about the same really.

I keep hearing Chappie as being gentle mentioned on here, so yes I think I will get some.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

shirleystarr said:


> I suggested Chappie my vet recommends it dogs seem to like it they like the smell of it I think and as sarah says its very gentle on the tummy


Just what I need. I've got the dentist at 12, right next to Tescos! So hope they sell it.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Muttly said:


> , I may only have the choice of those 100g trays as I think a 400g tin will go off!


How long would a 400g can last?

I use a mix of 400g & 800g cans for Maisie - the 800g is open around 3.5 days / 84 hours (eg Mon breakfast to Thurs dinner) & is absolutely fine if kept properly 

I put 1 day's worth (200g) into separate air-tight snap lock containers and keep in the fridge. As each container is sealed within mins of opening the can and only opened the day it's in use (ie air isn't getting in out every time it's opened over several days) it keeps fine 

If it would take longer than that to use up, I'd probably freeze - it's absolutely fine and if you freeze in individual portions it defrosts quite quickly


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Yup, when we came downstairs I offered his dinner first before anything.
> Thinking back, through the evening he kept going and sniffing his dinner and walking away. So he seemed hungry, but didn;t fancy that. He is really funny with fish most of the time tbh, but sometimes he does wolf down the mackeral, but this was sardines, thought they were about the same really.
> 
> I keep hearing Chappie as being gentle mentioned on here, so yes I think I will get some.


And after 10-30 mins did you pick it up and say "thats it" until next meal time? or did you leave it down all evening?

Muttly's mum whilst at tesco me thinks you need to buy some big girl pants.........


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Unfortunately you may well have to just suck it up with his behaviour and a lack of sleep for a few nights. If he "seems hungry but doesn't fancy" what you've offered...well tough. I'd stick to things he's not a bit funny with for the time being though. I know it's hard, I've been there with Rupert and it wasn't nice to think of him going hungry. But you can't keep on faffing around like this really.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Does anyone think 100g per day is ok for a 7kg dog then?


Well Bigby is 23kg and gets 200g per day so I would think 100g is a little too much for a 7kg dog


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

As Lilylass said - in air tight containers in the fridge food will last for a couple of days easy, so dont worry about buying normal 400g cans/trays as you'd still use them up within 2 or 3 days even mixing with his raw food ..... although Tesco's do sell the little trays of Lilys Kitchen which mine used to really love until they changed them all to multi protein, which mine dont do well on.

The only good point right now is that you are heading for a weekend - so at least lack of sleep wont make you tired at work, so stick with it and hopefully he will realise that Mr Picky no longer works very quickly! 

And once he is eating - you need to stick with no treats/extra's for a good few weeks so as not to have any set backs.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Hanwombat said:


> Well Bigby is 23kg and gets 200g per day so I would think 100g is a little too much for a 7kg dog


But it depends on what you are feeding. I might give 50grams of one dry, or 70grams of a different make.

(not just picking on you here, as several people have said the same lol)

Seriously - just get him eating properly for now ..... worry about amounts and weight afterwards


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Sorry if this has been covered (I'm losing track ) but has the vet been involved in all this and ruled out pain, bugs or IBS, etc.

Have you tried cooking his raw meat?

Cooking and pureeing the veg might stop him wanting to eat his poo.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lilylass said:


> How long would a 400g can last?
> 
> I use a mix of 400g & 800g cans for Maisie - the 800g is open around 3.5 days / 84 hours (eg Mon breakfast to Thurs dinner) & is absolutely fine if kept properly
> 
> ...


Ah great thank you. I would think a 400g can will last 4 days at least.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> And after 10-30 mins did you pick it up and say "thats it" until next meal time? or did you leave it down all evening?
> 
> Muttly's mum whilst at tesco me thinks you need to buy some big girl pants.........


:Hilarious I do  But OH was just as bad, he gave him the biscuit!  He usually just tells him to sod off and stop it.
I left it down for an hour :Bag

So people I need some kind of structure. Shall I put food down at 6pm while I make dinner (this is when he used to eat), so there is 1hr 1/2 until his walk. But all he'll do is go off to the garden. Do I need to try and keep him in the room? Or would this make him more stressed?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> Sorry if this has been covered (I'm losing track ) but has the vet been involved in all this and ruled out pain, bugs or IBS, etc.


I asked way back and apparently he has been vet checked.

May be worth getting it done again though, Rupe had blood tests although I can't remember what they were testing for. We had a major weight problem though as he was 9kg underweight so that might be why.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Muttly said:


> Ah great thank you. I would think a 400g can will last 4 days at least.


You can freeze wet if you're a bit dubious over 4 days.
Heidi is similar on the veg front. Ok with rice.
As you say, you could bulk out the raw you have with some rice. Let it go really soggy. The starch will help.
A good starting base for wet would be the butchers tripe original cans. (Blue and yellow about 60p each)Lots of firm meat, nothing nasty. Easy to get hold of.
Small steps and you will climb the big mountain


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Muttly said:


> :Hilarious I do  But OH was just as bad, he gave him the biscuit!  He usually just tells him to sod off and stop it.
> I left it down for an hour :Bag
> 
> So people I need some kind of structure. Shall I put food down at 6pm while I make dinner (this is when he used to eat), so there is 1hr 1/2 until his walk. But all he'll do is go off to the garden. Do I need to try and keep him in the room? Or would this make him more stressed?


I never forced Rupert to stay in the room. If he wandered off and didn't want it it came back up and went away until next meal time. Trying to force him would have just created more stress and made him more unlikely to eat.


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> :Hilarious I do  But OH was just as bad, he gave him the biscuit!  He usually just tells him to sod off and stop it.
> I left it down for an hour :Bag
> 
> So people I need some kind of structure. Shall I put food down at 6pm while I make dinner (this is when he used to eat), so there is 1hr 1/2 until his walk. But all he'll do is go off to the garden. Do I need to try and keep him in the room? Or would this make him more stressed?


Maybe feed him after his walk, so he'll have worked up an appetite and it's not so long before he goes to bed? Not straight after, maybe give it half an hour or so.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lurcherlad said:


> Sorry if this has been covered (I'm losing track ) but has the vet been involved in all this and ruled out pain, bugs or IBS, etc.
> 
> Have you tried cooking his raw meat?
> 
> Cooking and pureeing the veg might stop him wanting to eat his poo.


This is how he eats veg on his raw diet, pureed. But although he doesn;t eat his poo, he doesn;t really like eating it in the first place.

He saw a the vet a few months ago, but not about this although at the time he was checked he would of been going through spells of this.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

KatieandOliver said:


> Maybe feed him after his walk, so he'll have worked up an appetite and it's not so long before he goes to bed? Not straight after, maybe give it half an hour or so.


This is now when he does normally eat. He was eating at 6, then started not to. So I would put it back in the fridge until after his walk


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Muttly said:


> This is how he eats veg on his raw diet, pureed. But although he doesn;t eat his poo, he doesn;t really like eating it in the first place.
> 
> He saw a the vet a few months ago, but not about this although at the time he was checked he would of been going through spells of this.


I would get him checked out by the vet specifically for this then. He could have something going on which is causing him pain (even teeth) so I would want to rule that out before taking a hard line with him tbh.

My mum had Diverticulitis and just a tiny amount of a trigger food would cause her considerable discomfort 

They might try to sell you their food of course! 

But there are plenty of options you can try such as Chappie, Butchers Tripe, etc.


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

Hi,

So this is what I would.

Morning walk-After Put food down for 15 minutes.

Evening Walk-After put food down for 15 minutes.

Thats it. No treats. Nothing.

Stick to the same food. No swapping and changing. He will learn love.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Yup, when we came downstairs I offered his dinner first before anything.
> Thinking back, through the evening he kept going and sniffing his dinner and walking away. *So he seemed hungry, but didn't fancy that.* He is really funny with fish most of the time tbh, but sometimes he does wolf down the mackeral, but this was sardines, thought they were about the same really.


I think you have your answer in a nutshell there - he's simply learned that if he refuses regular food and makes enough of a fuss, you'll be so woried about him not eating you'll give him treats instead. And what kid, furry or otherwise, would settle for boring old meat and two veg if they knew that kicking up a fuss would get them cake and sweeties, so to speak?

If Muttly were Moggie and you were in Cat Chat, then although we see plenty of genuine fussy eaters over there and cats are experts at being picky, we'd be telling you 'he's got you well trained!' 

Anyway, you're getting good advice, so make the decision to be strict with him from now on. Yes, it will be hard work and probably a miserable week or two whilst Muttly tries every trick in the book to get you to feed him treats full time again, but it will be much better for his health in the long run if you feed him appropriate amounts of a balanced food (and this will mean reading the label and working out how much of a particular food he needs for his size). Oh, and if you are feeding dry food as part of the mix, you can set some of that aside to carry in a little bag and use as rewards throughout the day rather than treats - my best friend has a service dog, and that is how they ensure dogs get rewarded for work without getting fat.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> So people, thanks again for the replies.
> 
> Muttly refused his dinner last night. Had a tiny treat at bed time, which was 11pm. 1am he had us up, pacing, panting, trying to lie down, but then getting up again. He tried to cuddle with me in the bed, but couldn't stay still. Took him downstairs and offered his dinner, refused it.
> Unfortunately it wasn't a meal he had eaten often, so I can't say he would of eaten it any other time.
> ...


Sorry if I'm being thick but to me that is not normal behaviour and if he were mine he would be off to the vets. Pacing/panting/shaking/belly grumbling/burbing does not sound like a dog acting up because he wants different food or is being fussy.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2016)

Muttly said:


> He was a bit weird this morning because he is still very empty, but he was also asking for his walk, I offered his kibble, but no. So he didn't get a walk.


Why didn't you walk him?


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sorry if I'm being thick but to me that is not normal behaviour and if he were mine he would be off to the vets. Pacing/panting/shaking/belly grumbling/burbing does not sound like a dog acting up because he wants different food or is being fussy.


No it sounds like a dog who hasnt eaten his food so has a very empty uncomfortable tummy......


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Why didn't you walk him?


Because I thought it would make him worse and use up anything that is left inside him, he's running on empty.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I forgot to say also, last night on our walk I took our 'walk only' toy with us and he was loving it. I only took a handful of kibble and he had about 5 pieces while playing 'find it'
I was trying to take focus off obsessing over food on walks (see first post) and needing to get back our bond and him to listen to me. Well it was much easier than I thought and I was rewarding him coming with a game with his squeeky tug toy


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> No it sounds like a dog who hasnt eaten his food so has a very empty uncomfortable tummy......


Not sure I buy that. Lots of times dogs have to have an empty tummy for whatever reason but they don't necessarily pant/pace/shake and gurgle/grumble. Mine got hunger pukes when they first went on raw but there was no discomfort with it. I would definitely want any medical cause ruled out by a vet before assuming this is a dog trying to get its own way.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Because I thought it would make him worse and use up anything that is left inside him, he's running on empty.


He's not running on empty, he has fat reserves 

Did you read my post about my friend's sighthound? She has no fat reserves and she runs around like a loon on empty for a few days and then starts eating. Really, if the vet has said he's fine, it's okay for him to go without food for several days, and go about his routine as usual, including a good dose of exercise. He will figure it out.

If he does have a rumbly tummy, and/or trapped gas, a good walk will help with that too. One it gets his mind off freaking out about his tummy, two it helps the gas move and come out.

Sorry but the more I read your posts the more I think you're just pandering to him and creating more of an issue than this is. From looking at his photos, he's definitely not hurting for groceries. He can clearly get nutrition from food, you're just going to have to suck it up and go the tough love route.

Pick one food, not twenty different things trying to entice him, ONE food, offer it to him twice a day, take it up after 10 minutes. Nothing in between. NOTHING. Don't leave food down, don't offer him between meal snacks... Meals and that's it.

Alternately, he's small enough that you can do away with meals altogether and make him work for all his food. Again, pick ONE food, give him one or two opportunities to work for it via tricks, nose work, puzzle toys, etc. If he doesn't want to play, stop and go about your business. Try again hours later. 
In your situation though, I think you are a pretty significant factor in his food behavior so I would go the meals route first and eliminate yourself from the equation as much as possible.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Not sure I buy that. Lots of times dogs have to have an empty tummy for whatever reason but they don't necessarily pant/pace/shake and gurgle/grumble. Mine got hunger pukes when they first went on raw but there was no discomfort with it. I would definitely want any medical cause ruled out by a vet before assuming this is a dog trying to get its own way.


Agree

I wonder too, if having too much food by way of treats for training whilst out and being active could cause a few tummy issues with some dogs?


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Not sure I buy that. Lots of times dogs have to have an empty tummy for whatever reason but they don't necessarily pant/pace/shake and gurgle/grumble. Mine got hunger pukes when they first went on raw but there was no discomfort with it. I would definitely want any medical cause ruled out by a vet before assuming this is a dog trying to get its own way.


I agree - a thorough vet check is a very good idea.

McKenzie will actually do the above when she's got an empty tummy though - she will whine, pant, tummy gurgles, act really unsettled and eat grass like a starving cow. Once she's either thrown bile up or I've managed to get something into her she's fine immediately. She is so hungry it's hard to get her to eat - ironic I know - but she won't eat her kibble, it's like she can't stomach it.. I have to give her warmed wet food, and then once she's got something in her tum she'll eat the kibble. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often these days so long as I give her enough food at bedtime.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

OP - I wouldn't worry about him walking on an empty stomach, in fact he might come back with an appetite (if he doesn't get any food treats whilst out )


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

McKenzie said:


> I agree - a thorough vet check is a very good idea.
> 
> McKenzie will actually do the above when she's got an empty tummy though - she will whine, pant, tummy gurgles, act really unsettled and eat grass like a starving cow. Once she's either thrown bile up or I've managed to get something into her she's fine immediately. She is so hungry it's hard to get her to eat - ironic I know - but she won't eat her kibble, it's like she can't stomach it.. I have to give her warmed wet food, and then once she's got something in her tum she'll eat the kibble. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often these days so long as I give her enough food at bedtime.


So when McKenzie has reached the point of whining/panting/gurgling you don't just say tough there is no food until morning when you will be offered kibble take it or leave it, you warm some wet food to help get her over it which seems a pretty reasonable thing to do.

@Muttly perhaps he is over producing acid and would benefit from stomach protecting medication. I definitely think its worth a trip to the vet to check him over and make sure they are aware of how bad he gets in the night.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

McKenzie said:


> I agree - a thorough vet check is a very good idea.
> 
> McKenzie will actually do the above when she's got an empty tummy though - she will whine, pant, tummy gurgles, act really unsettled and eat grass like a starving cow. Once she's either thrown bile up or I've managed to get something into her she's fine immediately. She is so hungry it's hard to get her to eat - ironic I know - but she won't eat her kibble, it's like she can't stomach it.. I have to give her warmed wet food, and then once she's got something in her tum she'll eat the kibble. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often these days so long as I give her enough food at bedtime.


Thank you!
Once I can get Muttly eating, he is fine straight away too.

I will give him the weekend and see how he goes before going to the vet.

He was quite full of energy when I got home from work last night I forgot to say. We had a game straight away and he was very playful most of the evening. Had a good walk and he ran about a lot, had a poo (normal). 
OH says he's not eaten any kong this morning. I won't give him anything at lunch and I go get some Chappie or something, then feed this for dinner.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So when McKenzie has reached the point of whining/panting/gurgling you don't just say tough there is no food until morning when you will be offered kibble take it or leave it, you warm some wet food to help get her over it which seems a pretty reasonable thing to do.
> 
> @Muttly perhaps he is over producing acid and would benefit from stomach protecting medication. I definitely think its worth a trip to the vet to check him over and make sure they are aware of how bad he gets in the night.


I see your point yup.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So when McKenzie has reached the point of whining/panting/gurgling you don't just say tough there is no food until morning when you will be offered kibble take it or leave it, you warm some wet food to help get her over it which seems a pretty reasonable thing to do.


No - but she doesn't have any problem eating her food normally as she will eat absolutely anything except lettuce! I don't think McKenzie and Muttly are a reasonable comparison and I'm not sure how I feel about Muttly's situation so I'm refraining from commenting on it.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Problem with giving muttly something different when his tummy's gurgling because he won't eat is that that's what he's expecting going by Muttly's posts and they seem to be in a vicious circle with it, him not eating, them offering more and more different things to entice him to, him becoming worse with the eating... And clearly it's causing stress or this thread wouldn't even exist. 

I definitely think it's worth another vet visit personally (perhaps try filming him to show how bad he is?) but if you carry on with what you've always done you'll get what you've always got. Which in this case is a dog who has his owner offering all sorts of yummy extras to be sure he's eating.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Missy went about three or four days once without eating during her most picky time. I did give her the odd biscuit here and there, but kibble she just would not touch. It resolved itself eventually after I must have added a different topping ( can't quite remember ). She also had the hunger pukes during this time. So maybe thinking of adding something really tasty as a topper?

Also, how about scatter games? Would he eat if you scattered his kibble around the garden?


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Missy went about three or four days once without eating during her most picky time. I did give her the odd biscuit here and there, but kibble she just would not touch. It resolved itself eventually after I must have added a different topping ( can't quite remember ). She also had the hunger pukes during this time. So maybe thinking of adding something really tasty as a topper?
> 
> Also, how about scatter games? Would he eat if you scattered his kibble around the garden?


I was going to suggest these things. I do believe I suggested earlier a tasty smelling kibble brand, and that adding some warm water to kibble can increase the palatability. Recently there was a discussion on this forum about canned pumpkin and Tesco. I have bought some of this today so Tesco do seem to have it back in stock on their American ethnic section. This is supposedly a brilliant thing to feed for upset tums and the added bonus is dogs seem to find it tasty. It might be worthwhile adding some pumpkin, or something like cottage cheese.

I also second playing some kind of game with his food. One of my dogs favourite is chasing bits of kibble. I wait until we are on a hard surface so the kibble actually rolls, then I make sure they are looking at me and then roll pieces along the floor to my left and right, they absolutely love chasing it about. It's a great game and also seems to tire them out. You just have to be careful they dont go too hard and fast on something like concrete.

I just think you need to think outside the box a bit more on ways to get food inside him (the same old things like Kongs can become boring after a while) and as others have said, give him some tough love.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Leanne77 said:


> I was going to suggest these things. I do believe I suggested earlier a tasty smelling kibble brand, and that adding some warm water to kibble can increase the palatability. Recently there was a discussion on this forum about *canned pumpkin and Tesco. I have bought some of this today so Tesco do seem to have it back in stock on their American ethnic section*. This is supposedly a brilliant thing to feed for upset tums and the added bonus is dogs seem to find it tasty. It might be worthwhile adding some pumpkin, or something like cottage cheese.
> 
> I also second playing some kind of game with his food. One of my dogs favourite is chasing bits of kibble. I wait until we are on a hard surface so the kibble actually rolls, then I make sure they are looking at me and then roll pieces along the floor to my left and right, they absolutely love chasing it about. It's a great game and also seems to tire them out. You just have to be careful they dont go too hard and fast on something like concrete.
> 
> I just think you need to think outside the box a bit more on ways to get food inside him (the same old things like Kongs can become boring after a while) and as others have said, give him some tough love.


Is this the right stuff?:
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=292613099

I've been wanting to get some for ages.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Animallover26 said:


> Is this the right stuff?:
> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=292613099
> 
> I've been wanting to get some for ages.


Thanks Al and @Leanne77 - Just added some to my Tesco delivery for tomorrow.

I went and got some Chappie at lunch and I also bought these:
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=276889032
The veg content is low, so should be ok.

Should I give him the Chappie tonight? Then perhaps carry on with the Butchers as an ongoing thing? Value wise they are quite good as he will only be having half a tray at the most per day.

I went home at lunch and he greeted me like an old friend, he then celebrated by eating a bit of a chew that was on the floor! I went and sorted my lunch in the kitchen and he sniffed his kong and left it 
He's had nothing else and seems ok in himself, just a bit clingy.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I do play games with his kibble as I realised a while ago that he does like to work for food. That's why I play 'find it' on walks and hide his kibble in trees and stuff. Then I made the mistake of putting this into his raw meat and taking it out with us, but it backfired. I took it too far.

I will try some scatter games at home though as what I said above is the 2nd time he has looked for something to munch off the floor when I have got home.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Animallover26 said:


> Is this the right stuff?:
> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=292613099
> 
> I've been wanting to get some for ages.


Yes, thats the one, different brand to the one they stocked before though. I bought 3 cans and the girl on the checkout impressed me as she asked if I was making pumpkin pie or buying it for my dogs. I asked how she knew and she said she'd already served a lady buying it for her dogs so knew what it was for!


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

been waiting for that to come back 
5 added to my delivery


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm jumping in quick without reading everything here but.



Muttly said:


> Can 150g of food really be too much though?


Pip is 6.2 Kg and he gets approx 130 grams of wet food at night (3rd of tray), two Rocco chings, 1 at breakfast and 1 at lunch then a platinum chew stick at bed time, and the odd tiny treat. Now he very rarely finishes his tea and some days eats very little tea, we did worry because he is very skinny so wrote this all down and spoke to the vet, she wasn't concerned at all, said his muscle definition was excellent and he was fit and healthy and as long as we didn't give him treats or snacks to make up for not eating his tea he would be fine. BTW he just won't eat proper dog food in the morning hence the once a day. Don't know if this helps but i hope it does..........Steve


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Lexiedhb said:


> No it sounds like a dog who hasnt eaten his food so has a very empty uncomfortable tummy......





McKenzie said:


> McKenzie will actually do the above when she's got an empty tummy though - she will whine, pant, tummy gurgles, act really unsettled and eat grass like a starving cow. Once she's either thrown bile up or I've managed to get something into her she's fine immediately. She is so hungry it's hard to get her to eat - ironic I know - but she won't eat her kibble, it's like she can't stomach it.. I have to give her warmed wet food, and then once she's got something in her tum she'll eat the kibble. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often these days so long as I give her enough food at bedtime.


Maybe empty tummy is different with small dogs but Poppy gurgles, squeaks, pants, paces and whines!

I don't feed her anything different though. She gets her normal breakfast and eats it ..... Maybe she knows she is highly unlikely to get a special meal anyway, I don't know.

She is 100% better as soon as she eats.

And she burps after every meal, so does Lucy 



Leanne77 said:


> Recently there was a discussion on this forum about canned pumpkin and Tesco. I have bought some of this today so Tesco do seem to have it back in stock on their American ethnic section. This is supposedly a brilliant thing to feed for upset tums


Great for constipation (high dose) and for firming loose stools (small dose) but not sure it would help with empty tummy tbh. A teaspoon full would be fine for flavour though.



Muttly said:


> Thanks Al and @Leanne77 - Just added some to my Tesco delivery for tomorrow.
> 
> I went and got some Chappie at lunch and I also bought these:
> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=276889032
> ...


Normally I'd say no to Chappie or butchers but tbh if he eats it without messing around then fine. Get him eating and then worry about the quality.

One question though ..... Why was there a chew on the floor ? He shouldn't be having anything other than his two set meals.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

And my Lucy didn't eat her breakfast today. She had 5 minutes to choose to eat it but decided she wanted to go back to bed instead. 

I haven't offered her anything else. She knows not to expect anything else. 

I put it down, she walks off ..... I shake the bowl, she went under the blanket on the sofa. Food was stored away for later. 

End of ......


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Maybe empty tummy is different with small dogs but Poppy gurgles, squeaks, pants, paces and whines!
> 
> I don't feed her anything different though. She gets her normal breakfast and eats it ..... Maybe she knows she is highly unlikely to get a special meal anyway, I don't know.
> 
> ...


Yup I know, it was a tiny part of one that we tried to feed him yesterday.

I would never have bought either of these foods, but I'm at the point where I just want him eating every day.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Yup I know, it was a tiny part of one that we tried to feed him yesterday.
> 
> I would never have bought either of these foods, but I'm at the point where I just want him eating every day.


Which shows he can and does eat - but only when and what he chooses too.

Whatever food you give him now needs to be what you give him for the next few weeks at least, no changing.

My old JRT only had one meal a day, so see how Muttly goes. One balanced fully eaten meal is better than how things are at the moment.

Just be strong, he isn't going to die from not eating for a little while. He will eventually eat and then learn this is the way it is from now on.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Which shows he can and does eat - but only when and what he chooses too.
> 
> Whatever food you give him now needs to be what you give him for the next few weeks at least, no changing.
> 
> ...


Thank you 
I am hopeful he will eat tonight after his walk.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Muttly said:


> Thank you
> I am hopeful he will eat tonight after his walk.


Fingers crossed  but be prepared that it might take a couple of days before he gets really hungry AND realises that nothing else is going to appear if he doesn't eat what's put down ...


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Lilylass said:


> Fingers crossed  but be prepared that it might take a couple of days before he gets really hungry AND realises that nothing else is going to appear if he doesn't eat what's put down ...


This. Rupert held out for nearly 10 days when we did it, ate his dinner on the 10th day. But he was a bit extreme and being closely monitored by the vet at the time, I don't think I'd have managed to go that long without vet support to be honest.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Thank you
> I am hopeful he will eat tonight after his walk.


and if he doesn't....... No treats!!!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

How did he go @Muttly?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Muttly said:


> Yup I know, it was a tiny part of one that we tried to feed him yesterday.
> 
> I would never have bought either of these foods, but I'm at the point where I just want him eating every day.


He is eating every day.

Unfortunately, it's stuffed kongs/Primula/goats' milk, Greenies, biscuits and other treats.

He's a tiny dog with a tiny stomach. As long as you continue feeding him what he 'fancies' rather than what is good for him, he will carry on in this way.

You need to allow him to become hungry and look forward to his meals.

He doesn't need kibble whilst out walking and he doesn't need goats' milk and biscuits in the middle of the night.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Have skimmed through this however not all dogs eat every day, mine will skip meals now and again. Taz skips at least twice a week if he doesn't eat it in 15 mins I pick it up and put it in the fridge to give again the next day. When Taz came to live with us he refused to eat for 5 days because his previous owner fed him largely on human food and treats. He was also 4.5kg when he picked him up so smaller than Muttly and I still stuck to my guns. 

I will however say in my opinion you are over treating him, why would he eat his meals when he gets cheese, greenies , milk and biscuits? I would much rather eat pizza whenever I wanted rather than sit down and eat a healthy balanced meal. 

I'm sure I've said this before but he has you wrapped around his paw and you need to put your foot down otherwise this cycle is just going to go round and round. Stop stressing , he isn't going to starve himself and as he has excess weight he isn't going to waste away.


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## Sarahliz100 (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm no expert but would be inclined to agree with other posters about him choosing to wait for more enticing options. As others have said if he's gaining (or maintaining a higher than desirable) weight he's not under nourished.

If you genuinely think he's in pain/distressed when his stomach is empty then I'd go back to the vets. My boy went through a phase when he was thoroughly miserable (lying in a corner, not letting anyone near him, refusing to eat ANYTHING) of a morning and a period on anti-acid medication really made a difference and got him back to eating normally. He was definitely feeling really unwell though - he's not a picky eater at all generally.

So I guess it comes down to what your gut instincts tell you. If you think he's just being picky then you need to hold out and stop giving him all the delightful things to tempt him. If you feel this is down to him being unwell/in too much pain to eat then you need to get back to the vets. Either way you need to stop with the constantly trying to tempt him with delicacies - if it's pickiness you're feeding right into it, if he's getting stressed your obvious anxiety won't be helping and if he's got a delicate tummy/excess acid then filling it with rich delicacies may actually be making the problem worse.

So perhaps a frank discussion with your vet and if they feel he doesn't need medication or special diet then get tough with regards to meal times and no treats?


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

How is the little lad this morning hope he ate last night


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## MrsCx (Jul 17, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Muttly and his eating is really getting on top of me.
> 
> He has always been picky and he's really not fussed about food, not food orientated at all.
> 
> ...


I had a similar issue with my Rottweiler, fussiest dog I have ever met. And if he didn't eat his full meals he would be sick before his next meal and we have to stick to strict meal times because of this. It did get to the point like yourself where I was hand/spoon feeding him because he was refusing to eat and this would encourage him. However, after a while he relied on us doing this which got pretty tedious.

Are you able to leave his food down for a couple of hours? I'd suggest putting down his favourite food where he is able to come and get it when he wants it and see if he attempts this. If he follows you around, leave it in the kitchen and busy yourself around him calmly. Even if he eats some of it, it's a start.. Try feeding him just twice a day so he's not overpowered with food three times a day even if he's not eating a lot. After a couple hours or so, pick it up and don't try again til the next meal unless by some miracle he looks like he wants it.
Before trying to feed him his meal, maybe try giving him a treat if he's grumbly to try settle his stomach 10 mins or so before his meal as once the grumbles are there they do tend to lose the appetite I've found so if you can make him have some form or treat it will help towards eating a meal massively. 
It may be worth taking a step back from feeding him completely and leave treats or food just out for him to get if this is possible for you, with the odd "good boy, get it then" if he starts showing an interest. It can be difficult but trying a different routine can help a lot.

It can be very worrying but sometimes it's better to try take this step back and try relax as the more relaxed you are the more relaxed he will feel. Just keep up positive reinforcement when he does eat, especially if he manages a full meal (even if this is a while from now). 
Hope this is some help. 
Keep us all updated


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Well, I'm happy to report my lil lad is eating well and he is happier and better than ever :Joyful

Fri night he ate 100g of Chappie. He gobbled it so fast I was getting a bit worried! (friend's GSD just died from bloat  ) but he was fine.

Saturday I tried leaving out 15g of Kibble in his dish in the morning, but he kept sniffing it and walking off. I wanted him to have some option of food, but I picked it up after an hour as he wasn't eating it. Also wanted to instill the "eat it in this time or it gets picked up"
Then he ate 110g of Chappie in the evening. Through the day he was wincing and arching his back, then shaking (he does shake when he is worried, like Chi's do). This was on and off and it seemed if I took his mind off it, he was better. 

Sunday I put nothing down in the morning and he ate all his dinner again with so much enthusiasm it was lovely. He was fine and happy and playing all day sunday and no back arching or shaking or gurgling. 

I left his tin out on the side and he was wandering about sniffing the air and looking for it just before I fed him  Then was watching while I put it in his bowl, he has never done this in his life.

For the foreseeable he will stay on Chappie, get his weight sorted out and a good eating routine installed.

Very happy 

God I never thought he would come from a raw diet to tinned Chappie though, but the raw is just not working. I now have to try and find someone who wants £40 of meat!


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

MrsCx said:


> I had a similar issue with my Rottweiler, fussiest dog I have ever met. And if he didn't eat his full meals he would be sick before his next meal and we have to stick to strict meal times because of this. It did get to the point like yourself where I was hand/spoon feeding him because he was refusing to eat and this would encourage him. However, after a while he relied on us doing this which got pretty tedious.
> 
> Are you able to leave his food down for a couple of hours? I'd suggest putting down his favourite food where he is able to come and get it when he wants it and see if he attempts this. If he follows you around, leave it in the kitchen and busy yourself around him calmly. Even if he eats some of it, it's a start.. Try feeding him just twice a day so he's not overpowered with food three times a day even if he's not eating a lot. After a couple hours or so, pick it up and don't try again til the next meal unless by some miracle he looks like he wants it.
> Before trying to feed him his meal, maybe try giving him a treat if he's grumbly to try settle his stomach 10 mins or so before his meal as once the grumbles are there they do tend to lose the appetite I've found so if you can make him have some form or treat it will help towards eating a meal massively.
> ...


Thank you for this post, you really get what we were going through, it was exactly like you described. We have turned a massive corner though now and I was over feeding him. It's crazy to think how little they eat, when I have always known Retrievers that gobble anything!


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Sounds to me that Muttly is going to be a once a day meal man!

Just keep an eye on the arching, wincing and shaking...shaking isn't just a nervous thing in chi's. Especially when dogs are at home...yes Paris Hilton types parading a scared chi infront of paparazzi I get...petrified chi. However at home, any dog will shake because usually there is some pain going on, especially with arched back.

Have only seen my chi's shake twice, once when Eevee was poorly after her spay, and once because she was stupid and nicked a frozen treat off Cleo and ate it quick...the latter was shivering!

Cleo is a ball of anxiety but not a quivering mess.

Be careful how you read Muttly.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Well, I'm happy to report my lil lad is eating well and he is happier and better than ever :Joyful
> 
> Fri night he ate 100g of Chappie. He gobbled it so fast I was getting a bit worried! (friend's GSD just died from bloat  ) but he was fine.
> 
> ...


Mushers Exchange on FB, advertise the raw meat there, someone will likely be near you and take it off your hands


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

lullabydream said:


> Sounds to me that Muttly is going to be a once a day meal man!
> 
> Just keep an eye on the arching, wincing and shaking...shaking isn't just a nervous thing in chi's. Especially when dogs are at home...yes Paris Hilton types parading a scared chi infront of paparazzi I get...petrified chi. However at home, any dog will shake because usually there is some pain going on, especially with arched back.
> 
> ...


Definitely a one meal a day lad I reckon.
Once he got over what looked like trapped wind/air in his system, having poos then he was absolutley fine 
He has only shaken twice, once during this time when he hurts or is worried, and 2 Xmas's ago which coincided with a moving train decoration.

I was ready to get him to the Vets Saturday, don't worry guys. But I wanted to see if it was air and see if he would have a good meal sat evening, and he did


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I am so glad to know he is eating now I know Chappie is a cheap food but my vet does recommend it she feeds it to her dogs there is something about the smell of it I think that dogs like now and again I do mix a little bit of kibble in with it Lucy was turning her nose up at the more expensive foods but she will eat this one


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

shirleystarr said:


> I am so glad to know he is eating now I know Chappie is a cheap food but my vet does recommend it she feeds it to her dogs there is something about the smell of it I think that dogs like now and again I do mix a little bit of kibble in with it Lucy was turning her nose up at the more expensive foods but she will eat this one


Thank you Shirley 
It does actually smell quite nice  and as Muttly is showing so much enthusiasm over this food, then he's staying on it. He is on the 'Vet Original' which has fish and chicken. 
We have got chicken too as it came in the multipack but not sure if I should try it as he loves the normal flavour. Have you tried both?


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Thats brill news that he is eating !! 

If he is going to eat just once a day though you might want to up the amount a little, as 110g of wet doesn't sound like an awful lot, but then if once he is eating well he goes back to having treats etc that yes that might be ok.

Lucy (has a dose of chi in her we think) shakes. She always has done! She shakes if anyone bangs or sometimes even if i'm just shouting upstairs to my son to do something or call him for dinner, or if someone new comes in the house. Kissing her inbetween her eyes stops it (i know, strange girl she is lol). Its like if she is anxious or nervous she shakes but a kiss reassures her that the world is ok and then she is fine.

Keep up the "tough love" he needs a good few weeks of solid eating before any changes.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Thats brill news that he is eating !!
> 
> If he is going to eat just once a day though you might want to up the amount a little, as 110g of wet doesn't sound like an awful lot, but then if once he is eating well he goes back to having treats etc that yes that might be ok.
> 
> ...


Aww bless her!!!
Yes, same here, the times he has shaken, he stops as soon as he is comforted. I read Chi's shake when nervous/scared/worried when I was reading on up on his breeds before we brought him home. Lots of owners said their's did.

I did up his food last night as with being fed once a day, I wanted to make sure it keep him going through the day and through 2 walks. Saturday I offered 130g and he left 20gs. But he needed a poo and then didn;t come back to it.

Last night I gave hime 130g again and he polished it off and asked for more, so I did give him a bit more. I was thinking a 3rd of a tin per day might be ok for him? I have also said being that he isn't a greedy dog, we could let him guide us to what he wants.
So ill continue with 3rd of a tin and if he starts leaving any, cut it back again. While keeping an eye on his weight.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Brilliant Mutley is enjoying his Chappie. Vets have been recommending it for decades. Granted it isn't the best and vet aren't experts in food but good old Chappie must have something.

I've read cereal can help dogs with empty tum problems. May give it another go myself. Years ago it made Heidi itch but sorted her upset tum brilliantly. (Heidi has 200g wet food in summer and 250ish in winter.)


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Brilliant Mutley is enjoying his Chappie. Vets have been recommending it for decades. Granted it isn't the best and vet aren't experts in food but good old Chappie must have something.
> 
> I've read cereal can help dogs with empty tum problems. May give it another go myself. Years ago it made Heidi itch but sorted her upset tum brilliantly. (Heidi has 200g wet food in summer and 250ish in winter.)


How big is Heidi?
Oh damn, I checked Muttly for fleas this morning as he was itching, I really hope it isn't the food. I didn't find any fleas


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Fantastic news.

Where can you get Chappie? I keep hearing about it and think it might be useful to have a few tins in a cupboard for when Bungo has tummy upset or as a special treat sometimes.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Animallover26 said:


> Fantastic news.
> 
> Where can you get Chappie? I keep hearing about it and think it might be useful to have a few tins in a cupboard for when Bungo has tummy upset or as a special treat sometimes.


I think most places sell it. Tesco, I got it from. But [email protected] have it too


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I give my two chappie if they've got upset tums, and my MIL fed one of her dogs on it for years as it was the only thing that suited him, he was a huge strapping collie cross and he was full of boundless energy and was so glossy and shiny and beautiful, I cannot stand the smell of it :Yuck but it is almost magic in a tin


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

MontyMaude said:


> I give my two chappie if they've got upset tums, and my MIL fed one of her dogs on it for years as it was the only thing that suited him, he was a huge strapping collie cross and he was full of boundless energy and was so glossy and shiny and beautiful, I cannot stand the smell of it :Yuck but it is almost magic in a tin


That's good to hear about you MILs collie


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Brilliant news! I hope he continues to enjoy the Chappie and gets into a regular eating pattern  And yes, eating once a day is not a problem if that's what he prefers to do.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> Brilliant news! I hope he continues to enjoy the Chappie and gets into a regular eating pattern  And yes, eating once a day is not a problem if that's what he prefers to do.


He also doesn't have the immediately noticeable energy boost he had with raw.
Like yesterday he had a morning walk (that he was actually pestering me for lol) then another walk about 4-5, then loads of play sessions, had his dinner at 8pm and came in the lounge with us and crashed. He looked quite satisfied really :Happy
Same as any other day, no extra exercise.
I think maybe because the food is still in his belly during the day and keeping his energy levels up? I dunno.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Great news! Well done for being tough and picking the food up


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Sounds like you're on to a winner there, keep it up!


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Muttly said:


> Thank you Shirley
> It does actually smell quite nice  and as Muttly is showing so much enthusiasm over this food, then he's staying on it. He is on the 'Vet Original' which has fish and chicken.
> We have got chicken too as it came in the multipack but not sure if I should try it as he loves the normal flavour. Have you tried both?


yes I have tried them all but lucy likes the fish one the best


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

It's possible he was eating something previously which was causing him some discomfort. I know Rosie absolutely can't tolerate liver or heart, she will have instant gurgling and pain.

Many Vets do recommend Chappie for dogs with sensitive gut/bowel issues, so it may well be that the Chappie suits him.

One thing I have always noticed with Rosie is that, during the time I was working out what caused her pain and what didn't, if she had eaten a food that caused a flare up, she would be very reluctant to eat it again. She would approach her plate, sniff it and behave as though she was hungry and wanted to eat, but her instincts were telling her not to.

Once I eliminated everything she couldn't tolerate, she went from a very picky eater to eating with enthusiasm.

Muttly's behaviour previously around food does remind me of the way Rosie used to behave.

I would say one third of a tin is enough for such a small dog.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Good to hear he's eating so well.

I fed my Irish setter on chappie for most of his life. Most dog food came in tins and you added a mixer biscuit to it. The only food he could tolerate was chappie, anything else gave him the runs. He looked great on it, full of life and a wonderful glossy coat. We hated the smell of it mind.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Glad you've found something that suits him


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sweety said:


> It's possible he was eating something previously which was causing him some discomfort. I know Rosie absolutely can't tolerate liver or heart, she will have instant gurgling and pain.
> 
> Many Vets do recommend Chappie for dogs with sensitive gut/bowel issues, so it may well be that the Chappie suits him.
> 
> ...


Well, he has always refused raw liver/kidney. So that was the reason for the Liver, peanut butter kong, which he would eat. I guess just because he ate it, doesn;t mean it agreed with him? Although his poos were fine.
Also I ordered a new food for him, which was beef chunks (actually came through as beef offally type tripe stuff), he point blank refused it (just before this dodgy period and that was the last raw he ate/or not as it were).

Yeah just like you are describing Rosie, he would do this with other raw products. He would go over to his bowl, I would think "Yes!" then he sniffs and walks away, or picks a tiny piece, eats it and walks off.
The classic thing he would do is back away with his front paw raised like he's saying "eewww"

Perhaps he is a sensitive lil lad as if you offer him something he will sniff it quite a bit and take it so gently with his front teeth, unless it's a known smell to him.

I also think a 3rd of a tin is the max he should have.

Thanks Sweety, that's helpful.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Good to hear hes eating


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

If Chappie suits, don't be made to feel guilty about feeding it  It's a wonder food, and nobody really know why


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rona said:


> so not done him any harm
> If Chappie suits, don't be made to feel guilty about feeding it  It's a wonder food, and nobody really know why


Reviews online are a very mixed bag. But hey it works for him. I just have to keep an eye that his condition is good etc  If it is, he will stay on it, I can;t be messing about anymore, he's gone through so many different types and brands and he only 2!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

There will be a mammoth increase in what comes out the other end


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Muttly said:


> How big is Heidi?
> Oh damn, I checked Muttly for fleas this morning as he was itching, I really hope it isn't the food. I didn't find any fleas


Heidi is approx 8k.
The Itching may not be related. Could be a transitional period or as a result of his recent problems not eating. I would stick with it a while longer. I expect the cereal is keeping him full longer.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rona said:


> There will be a mammoth increase in what comes out the other end


Yup, I will be expecting that. He also tried to eat his poo yesterday, that's one thing he didn't do on raw. But that can be managed.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I am very anal about what my dogs eat, no grains whatsoever etc yet I will happily feed them tinned Chappie. I have recently changed their wet food due to having less expendable income and they are now on Butchers whereas before they would be on Lily's Kitchen, Forthglade or Fishmongers. I wouldnt stoop to feeding Pedigree or owt like that but i'm fine with Butchers and Chappie.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> I am very anal about what my dogs eat, no grains whatsoever etc yet I will happily feed them tinned Chappie. I have recently changed their wet food due to having less expendable income and they are now on Butchers whereas before they would be on Lily's Kitchen, Forthglade or Fishmongers. I wouldnt stoop to feeding Pedigree or owt like that but i'm fine with Butchers and Chappie.


Our long departed BC LOVED Butchers too I still remember the potent smell, but he wolfed it down


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Well, I wont need to buy the £7 per kilo Lily's Kitchen anymore, so that's going to save us some money at least.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> I'm sure I've said this before but he has you wrapped around his paw and you need to put your foot down otherwise this cycle is just going to go round and round. Stop stressing , he isn't going to starve himself and as he has excess weight he isn't going to waste away.


This is exactly what my behavourist said was my problem with Dex, I was too soft and he was taking full advantage, purely because he could. I must say, since I have put my foot down and stopped mollycoddling him, he genuinely seems to be a lot happier


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

MiffyMoo said:


> This is exactly what my behavourist said was my problem with Dex, I was too soft and he was taking full advantage, purely because he could. I must say, since I have put my foot down and stopped mollycoddling him, he genuinely seems to be a lot happier


Confused dogs are often unhappy dogs, when they know what is expected of them and what to expect they are a lot happier


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I've finally made it through this mammoth thread. I'm absolutely delighted that he's eating now, you must be so relieved. Don't feel at all guilty about feeding Chappie - don't forget what we always tell people who come on here asking what is the best food; the best is what your dog enjoys and thrives on.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Aww bless her!!!
> Yes, same here, the times he has shaken, he stops as soon as he is comforted. I read Chi's shake when nervous/scared/worried when I was reading on up on his breeds before we brought him home. Lots of owners said their's did.
> 
> I did up his food last night as with being fed once a day, I wanted to make sure it keep him going through the day and through 2 walks. Saturday I offered 130g and he left 20gs. But he needed a poo and then didn;t come back to it.
> ...


Yeah just play it by ear with regards to amounts as every dog is different. Mine up until very recently have been wet fed only and theyve had a can shared between them for breakfast and another for dinner (Lucy has a small third, Poppy a normal third and Oscar the bigger third) and they all maintained weights on 2 x thirds of a tin/tray each per day. Its only been since i've had them on semi-moist food for breakfast, plus less running in the hot weather, that they've put weight on. Its always a bit of a juggling act with small dogs though i think.

At the end of the day if he wasn't enjoying the raw then its just not suitable for him IMO. Lucy backed away from anything raw, woudn't even sniff it! Poppy & Oscar kept being sick and although Oscar ate minces, Poppy just kept spitting it out all over my kitchen cupboards (yuk!). They thoroughly enjoy wet food so id be crazy to keep trying to force the raw.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Yeah just play it by ear with regards to amounts as every dog is different. Mine up until very recently have been wet fed only and theyve had a can shared between them for breakfast and another for dinner (Lucy has a small third, Poppy a normal third and Oscar the bigger third) and they all maintained weights on 2 x thirds of a tin/tray each per day. Its only been since i've had them on semi-moist food for breakfast, plus less running in the hot weather, that they've put weight on. Its always a bit of a juggling act with small dogs though i think.
> 
> At the end of the day if he wasn't enjoying the raw then its just not suitable for him IMO. Lucy backed away from anything raw, woudn't even sniff it! Poppy & Oscar kept being sick and although Oscar ate minces, Poppy just kept spitting it out all over my kitchen cupboards (yuk!). They thoroughly enjoy wet food so id be crazy to keep trying to force the raw.


Agreed. I loved the idea of raw, but it wasn't for him.
I just want him to eat properly and be happy and healthy, that's all that matters


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

MiffyMoo said:


> I've finally made it through this mammoth thread. I'm absolutely delighted that he's eating now, you must be so relieved. Don't feel at all guilty about feeding Chappie - don't forget what we always tell people who come on here asking what is the best food; the best is what your dog enjoys and thrives on.


Tis a bit of a monster thread isn't it 
I am extremely relieved yes, I have been really worried about him.

Had to look away last night when his little face was like this
<<<< at my Ben & Jerrys 
(not that he had it much but I would sometimes let him lick the pot of the non choc ones)


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Tis a bit of a monster thread isn't it
> I am extremely relieved yes, I have been really worried about him.
> 
> Had to look away last night when his little face was like this
> ...





Muttly said:


> Tis a bit of a monster thread isn't it
> I am extremely relieved yes, I have been really worried about him.
> 
> Had to look away last night when his little face was like this
> ...


do you mean the "I'm so sad because I'm starving and B&Js would fix me right up"


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## evel-lin (Jul 1, 2010)

MiffyMoo said:


> do you mean the "I'm so sad because I'm starving and B&Js would fix me right up"


haha we have the same face here, poor suffering pups lol


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

MiffyMoo said:


> do you mean the "I'm so sad because I'm starving and B&Js would fix me right up"
> 
> View attachment 284303


OMG, how cute!!!! and yup that face, kills you don;t it!!


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

B&J on face :Lurking


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Muttly said:


> B&J on face :Lurking
> View attachment 284308


Haha, mucky pup!


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I think with dogs you just have to toughen up at times 

I am never one of these who just HAS to give their cute doggy with the big ears their last bit of toast or whatever because they're giving you 'that look'

My dogs get their dog food... their filled kongs and their pigs ear or whatever at weekends.. oh and training treats and that is it! No scraps, no toast, no licking out yoghurt pots or whichever 

And if they don't eat their food.. they starve! I think only once Io tried it when she was younger and I didn't change the food or give her something else.. she either ate it or she starved and she's never refused a meal since then


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> I think with dogs you just have to toughen up at times
> 
> I am never one of these who just HAS to give their cute doggy with the big ears their last bit of toast or whatever because they're giving you 'that look'


I only ever did this occasionally btw....


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2016)

Well mine will eat pretty much anything I put in front of them and are happy to mooch food off of us too. They'll even eat lettuce if they think the other might get it. 

That said, if one of mine was playing food games, he/she would not be getting any tidbits until the food games were over. 

I posted last summer about Breez learning a new trick at kennels, and figured out to hold out for a nice topper of canned food on her kibble. She tried it twice at home, and figured out very quickly that trick wasn't going to work here. Like I said, that was last summer, and we have had zero issues since. 

We do add toppers at home but only after they have started eating their dry, plain kibble. Once they're digging in, we'll scrape plates off in to their bowl, or just add the food after the kibble is gone.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Hanwombat said:


> I am never one of these who just HAS to give their cute doggy with the big ears their last bit of toast or whatever because they're giving you 'that look'
> 
> My dogs get their dog food... their filled kongs and their pigs ear or whatever at weekends.. oh and training treats and that is it! No scraps, no toast, no licking out yoghurt pots or whichever
> 
> And if they don't eat their food.. they starve! I think only once Io tried it when she was younger and I didn't change the food or give her something else.. she either ate it or she starved and she's never refused a meal since then


No, ours don't get human food either - I don't want 3 of them begging while I'm eating! I did give my old girl scraps but she would almost try taking the food out your mouth to get some so learnt my lesson there! I spent the last 6 months of her life cooking her tuna pasta bake at midnight just to get her to eat 

I do pander to Lucy a bit now she is older but only because she stopped eating kibble. Vet checked, nothing wrong, she just didn't want it anymore. She is very happy eating any wet food and is *touch wood* still eating Alpha Spirit semi moist food ..... but she is 11 n a half ...... so I don't mind her being a bit more picky. I wouldn't allow the Westies to do it though !


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Giving scraps doesn't equal a dog who begs or tries to steal food off your plate imo. I give scraps regularly, often as I'm eating, and have a dog who lies quietly ignoring me because the only time he gets them is when he's not begging.

Glad Muttly's eating  I wouldn't worry about quality right now, just get him eating reliably so your mind's at rest and then perhaps in a few weeks try him with something better quality and see how it goes. I'd definitely be avoiding chopping and changing right now.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Pleased that yhe lovely little boy is eating again, keep up the good work


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Muttly said:


> I only ever did this occasionally btw....


Oh it wasn't directed at you  I was just me speaking allowed :Bag


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Mine get human food and/or leftovers too ( especially Xmas time! ) and none are _that_ annoying dog that sits just inches in front of you, just staring at every morsel of food you take or snatches at every given opportunity. They may keep a watchful eye out, but all will go and settle elsewhere whilst you're eating.

I've never had any issues with excess weight or anything and I personally see no issue if the dog otherwise eats well and is well mannered.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2016)

Dogloverlou said:


> I've never had any issues with excess weight or anything and I personally see no issue *if the dog otherwise eats well and is well mannered.*


Right, the bolded is the key. IF the dog is already eating what is offered and not holding out for something better, then as far as I'm concerned they can have whatever scraps they want. 
A dog who is playing food games, nope, sorry. Show me you'll eat what I give you first, then we can talk scraps.

And of course if there are resource guarding issues or begging issues, then nope again.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Giving scraps doesn't equal a dog who begs or tries to steal food off your plate imo. I give scraps regularly, often as I'm eating, and have a dog who lies quietly ignoring me because the only time he gets them is when he's not begging.


Alfie used to do this. I called it negative begging, He used to lay facing away from me but his ears used to flick a lot and he would sometimes take a sneaky look over his shoulder but then quickly look away again if he saw me looking at him 

Well he did that until he got old and we incorporated picnics into our walks 

Funny what they get away with as they age


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> Giving scraps doesn't equal a dog who begs or tries to steal food off your plate imo. I give scraps regularly, often as I'm eating, and have a dog who lies quietly ignoring me because the only time he gets them is when he's not begging.
> 
> Glad Muttly's eating  I wouldn't worry about quality right now, just get him eating reliably so your mind's at rest and then perhaps in a few weeks try him with something better quality and see how it goes. I'd definitely be avoiding chopping and changing right now.


Yeah, I was about to write this too. feeding a dog scraps doesn't mean they will beg. That is and always has been a big no no in our house. Muttly lies under the dinner table without being told and if we are somewhere else eating, he will lie down and not stare at us. If for some reason Muttly is staring, he gets nothing.

Thanks, it's such a relief and another succesful night of scoffing his food down


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

I never have any scraps to feed mine 

I did however see if they would eat lettuce last night and they did, too afraid the other one was gonna get something they weren't


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

rona said:


> Alfie used to do this. I called it negative begging, He used to lay facing away from me but his ears used to flick a lot and he would sometimes take a sneaky look over his shoulder but then quickly look away again if he saw me looking at him
> 
> Well he did that until he got old and we incorporated picnics into our walks
> 
> Funny what they get away with as they age


Lol, Spen goes to sleep while we eat for the most part. He doesn't really bother at all unless Jack's eating on the floor and that's because Jack will feed him at any opportunity. But even then he's polite and just watches from a distance.


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