# kitten contracts on active - bit over the top?



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

just browsing through soem raggies adverts as we hope to get a new girly at some point, (sooner rather than later  ) and clicked on a breeder, remember speaking to her ages ago so looked at her website, now im all for contracts, but i this could be a little over the top? you buy a cat on active, you can keep back a girl not a boy, and if that has kittens then those have kittens (etc) you can never ever sell a girl or bo on active?!

Surely you buy they girl, they have restrictions, but how can they then restrict you on your Own kitten?? then their kittens and so on!!
surely thats a little over the top??


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Legally, they can't make you register the kittens as non active, if you buy a cat on active register and breed it, surely you are then the breeder of her kittens and are the only ones who should decide what the registration will be  

Some people are such control freaks it's beyond


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

At the end of the day, if you don't like the restrictions then you don't buy the cat! Know that sounds harsh but that's the way it goes. It may be that that breeder has restrictions on her sire/dam that go all the way down the line. It is easier just to find a breeder with fewer or no restrictions.

Anyone buying a cat on the active register should always check out exactly the extent of any contract on him/her. It is foolhardy to buy a cat with restrictions then ignore them (I know one or two who have sadly) - anyone doing this would just end up with a lot of grief and a reputation in tatters so to speak - then they would find some breeders wouldn't sell to them or let them into stud. Really it is just not worth the hassle!


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

ChinaBlue said:


> At the end of the day, if you don't like the restrictions then you don't buy the cat! Know that sounds harsh but that's the way it goes. It may be that that breeder has restrictions on her sire/dam that go all the way down the line. It is easier just to find a breeder with fewer or no restrictions.
> 
> Anyone buying a cat on the active register should always check out exactly the extent of any contract on him/her. It is foolhardy to buy a cat with restrictions then ignore them (I know one or two who have sadly) - anyone doing this would just end up with a lot of grief and a reputation in tatters so to speak - then they would find some breeders wouldn't sell to them or let them into stud. Really it is just not worth the hassle!


Completely agree though there are restriction that make no sense.

I'm happy with my restrictions as it is something I would have done anyway (not sell any boys to stud).


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I suppose when all is said and done a seller can sell something with any restrictions they want. Thats the sellers rights. 

The buyer doesnt have to buy. 

So I think like ChinaBlue and Messyhearts, just move on to another seller (breeder) if youre not happy with the restrictions they have in place. 

I think these types of restrictions are fairly common here. Well they must be if I have heard of them.


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Restrictions are put in place for several very good reasons IMHO. so if you buy a kitten that has certain restrictions then the breeder will expect you to abide by them. Those that choose to ignore them ( and theres been a few ) are fools to themselves. As already stated, if you dont like a breeders restrictions then go find another breeder who perhaps has less restrictions in place. Nadolig Llawen Chris.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

i know / everyone knows that you can go elsewhere, its was about the fact that you could have 10generations of your breeding for example and still not be able to sell them, that is maddness! i tell thee!! madness!! lol! mine have restrictions but id never do that! :crazy:


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

I really do agree with the OP here, those restrictions are well OTT. when we sell kittens here the only restricions we impose are , we dont sell a stud cat and will only sell a female kitten of good type to an experienced breeder or someone that wants to go into breeding this breed on the understanding that they have done there homework and that we could mentor them, to put it simply we dont sell to inexperienced breeders..Nadolig Llawen.....CHRIS.


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

raggs said:


> I really do agree with the OP here, those restrictions are well OTT. when we sell kittens here the only restricions we impose are , we dont sell a stud cat and will only sell a female kitten of good type to an experienced breeder or someone that wants to go into breeding this breed on the understanding that they have done there homework and that we could mentor them, to put it simply we dont sell to inexperienced breeders..Nadolig Llawen.....CHRIS.


Yes, it is the same in my breeding world. I won't sell breeding boys, although perhaps I would to an established breeders who knows what they are taking on, it would be all too easy to sell stud boys but you have to be careful the people you are selling to know how much work they are going to have to put in.

I do agree with the OP though, some people I would not buy from as they feel like they have hold on your for life! :eek6: (its a cat fgs)


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2010)

If it works the same way as in the dog world....then there really isnt much they can do.

If I sold a pup without endorsements but had a "contract" which we all know doesnt hold much water then I cant say what happens with the puppies pups.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

How does it work in the cat world, does active mean progeny eligeble for reg with GCCF?


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2010)

Starlite said:


> How does it work in the cat world, does active mean progeny eligeble for reg with GCCF?


I believe "active register" is like a non endorsed dog... And non-active is a endorsed cat?


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

Active - Breeding from 
Non-Active - Not Suitable for Breeding

It's very catty!! Is it catty in the doggy world?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

WindyCity said:


> Active - Breeding from
> Non-Active - Not Suitable for Breeding
> 
> It's very catty!! Is it catty in the doggy world?


no its 'bitchy'   :lol:


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## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> no its 'bitchy'   :lol:


Beat me to it


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

BSH said:


> Beat me to it


great minds thinks alike    :thumbup:


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## princessa rags (Apr 30, 2010)

my first ragdoll queen has that contract on her.but at the time i got her i wasnt bothered but as i got more into the breeding i wished she wasnt.so thats why i got another female who hasnt got any contract on her..but its hard trying to find studs


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> just browsing through soem raggies adverts as we hope to get a new girly at some point, (sooner rather than later  ) and clicked on a breeder, remember speaking to her ages ago so looked at her website, now im all for contracts, but i this could be a little over the top? you buy a cat on active, you can keep back a girl not a boy, and if that has kittens then those have kittens (etc) you can never ever sell a girl or bo on active?!
> 
> Surely you buy they girl, they have restrictions, but how can they then restrict you on your Own kitten?? then their kittens and so on!!
> surely thats a little over the top??


Totally over the top, not to mention unenforceable, except that we all know what the cat fancy is like, and that your name would quickly be mud if you didn't do what was expected of you. You mean this breeder is trying to stop you selling a kitten descended from the cat you buy on active ever - even if it's four generations? Do PM me the link please, I'm curious!

Liz


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## princessa rags (Apr 30, 2010)

i can keep a girl back but i cant sell active from any generation which i was nieve when i first got my girl but now i wouldnt of bothered getting her with a contract like that.you learn


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lizward said:


> Totally over the top, not to mention unenforceable, except that we all know what the cat fancy is like, and that your name would quickly be mud if you didn't do what was expected of you. You mean this breeder is trying to stop you selling a kitten descended from the cat you buy on active ever - even if it's four generations? Do PM me the link please, I'm curious!
> 
> Liz


have pm you



princessa rags said:


> i can keep a girl back but i cant sell active from any generation which i was nieve when i first got my girl but now i wouldnt of bothered getting her with a contract like that.you learn


ooo i wonder if its the same breeder?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> ooo i wonder if its the same breeder?


 hope so - surely there can't be TWO of them out there in just one breed?!

Liz


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> no its 'bitchy'   :lol:


Thank you. I did want to say that but .........THANK YOU!  :lol:

I just re-read the OP no kittens of ANY sex on Active. I wonder if it is a Ragdoll thing?

I have no contract on any of my cats but use my good sense of judgment. Well what I have left.

One thing that has not been mentioned is Money. I know of many breeders who are so money greedy and think they are above everyone else and their cats are so superior they don't want that line getting out there. I can understand I would have to know someone inside out as, my boy has a fantastic EVERYTHING, (ahem) and many of his offspring are very much like him so selling to Breeders within a certain radius, may cause too much competition.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi,

I have one girl who has restrictions on her,ie I cannot sell any of her kittens to breeders here in Switzerland. I have another girl who has no restrictions/no contract. My way round it,is just sell Glorias kittens for pets,that way it makes no difference.I am allowed to keep girls to breed but have chosen not to do that due to the restrictions from that cattery.
Eventually I will neuter her and not use her at all. 

My other girl will be the one I keep kittens from. I understand restrictions when I feel it is for the right reasons,but I do feel they shrink the gene pool and are damaging to the breed.

Izzie


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

There are ways around everything.

You buy a girl you cannot sell from her, so you have a litter, keep her daughter and sell from her. If your allowed. :lol:


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

WindyCity said:


> Thank you. I did want to say that but .........THANK YOU!  :lol:
> 
> I just re-read the OP no kittens of ANY sex on Active. I wonder if it is a Ragdoll thing?
> 
> ...


The very last sentence of the statement above hits the nail right on the head too. Some breeders hate selling kittens on the active register especially if the buyer is quite close to the breeder , they see it as competition. I've actually heared this myself , we were at a show when we had mentioned we would like to start breeding and then i heared a statement from a so called reputable breeder saying, " thats all we need, another Ragdoll breeder in Wales ", well so what .whats wrong with some people, i would encourage new breeders no matter how close to me they lived as long as they did everything in the right manner......Nadolig Llawen........Chris


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

WindyCity said:


> There are ways around everything.
> 
> You buy a girl you cannot sell from her, so you have a litter, keep her daughter and sell from her. If your allowed. :lol:


to me this should be allowed that is Your girl your name your breeding, but with the one i posted about she said any generation, so say in twenty years your 20gens (example) down the road of your cat breeding and still cant sell one! that is madness i tells thee! :ciappa:


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

raggs said:


> The very last sentence of the statement above hits the nail right on the head too. Some breeders hate selling kittens on the active register especially if the buyer is quite close to the breeder , they see it as competition. I've actually heared this myself , we were at a show when we had mentioned we would like to start breeding and then i heared a statement from a so called reputable breeder saying, " thats all we need, another Ragdoll breeder in Wales ", well so what .whats wrong with some people, i would encourage new breeders no matter how close to me they lived as long as they did everything in the right manner......Nadolig Llawen........Chris


wales in a country! how can it not have another breeder, if it was a small town then id prob understand what they are saying, ive just had someone buy my stud boys full brother & sister & half sister about 10mins from me!

im still mates with her and have helped her out! why wouldnt I? all doing the best for the breed, so what if she is 10mins from me? my kittens still found all new homes, her kittens found homes etc

Im one of only 5 (i think its 5) breeding hcm tested raggies in essex! :eek6:


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## princessa rags (Apr 30, 2010)

i think im the olny hcm neg breeding ragdolls in lincoln...theres a few in lincolnshire but its quite a large area.I live about 2 and half hours away from you know who taylor..so i wasnt on her door step


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

princessa rags said:


> i think im the olny hcm neg breeding ragdolls in lincoln...theres a few in lincolnshire but its quite a large area.I live about 2 and half hours away from you know who taylor..so i wasnt on her door step


yes, that is odd lol! i contacted someone a hour from me they said 'if you are on my doorstep you cant have one i dont want you breeding near me!' i said that the cats weret breeding quality to me and cost more than my show/breed boy! so i said no. plus they werent hcm tested!

i know of 2 others who dont hcm, then the others being sold i dont even think are regged, so not many of us at all really.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Haven't read all this thread but I'd like to know what possible benefit there could be to anyone, in the original breeder/seller preventing any future offspring, for generations and generations down the line, from being sold for breeding on the active register?

This isn't about "restrictions being put in place for very good reason" nor is it about "protecting lines" (what a load of old fanny that one is, too) - it's all about control. I hate it.


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> Haven't read all this thread but I'd like to know what possible benefit there could be to anyone, in the original breeder/seller preventing any future offspring, for generations and generations down the line, from being sold for breeding on the active register?
> 
> This isn't about "restrictions being put in place for very good reason" nor is it about "protecting lines" (what a load of old fanny that one is, too) - it's all about control. I hate it.


4 words,

jealously, money greedy, competition.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Those are my thoughts too  But I'm always interested to hear the 'alternative' theory on why these restrictions are so often put in place


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

It is off topic i know but i think all Ragdoll breeders should have their breeding stock tested for HCM for the good of the breed. .......Chris


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

raggs said:


> It is off topic i know but i think all Ragdoll breeders should have their breeding stock tested for HCM for the good of the breed. .......Chris


couldnt agree with you more! they should! maybe some people dont want to spend money or are having litters from un reg cats and basically dont care!


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> couldnt agree with you more! they should! maybe some people dont want to spend money or are having litters from un reg cats and basically dont care!


Thats B.Y.B for you, back to the same old dtory, , breed cats and make as much money as they can by cutting corners, never mind the welfare or long term health of the cats.............rant over, lol.....Chris


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

raggs said:


> Thats B.Y.B for you, back to the same old dtory, , breed cats and make as much money as they can by cutting corners, never mind the welfare or long term health of the cats.............rant over, lol.....Chris


me & A few others managed to get one closed down :thumbup: she was selling raggies that died, one in the car ont he way home   2 when it got home, 1 days later, then obviously people were calling me & my friends (also raggie breeders) for help/advice/another kitten  

anyway she stopped breeding, and selling them at 6weeks, and keeping them in cages on top of cages, and in her lounge in cages giving birth while there were kids screaming and tv on loud and games/mobiles

i had to go over myself as they didnt know me, it was sickening, i dont understand why anyone would buy from her, the prices werent ecaxlty cheaper, for another £100 they could have had a fully vacc health tested kitten  she offered me 2 pregnant cats 

long story short shes stopped now, although she now breeds dogs, lots of them aswelll!


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

raggs said:


> It is off topic i know but i think all Ragdoll breeders should have their breeding stock tested for HCM for the good of the breed. .......Chris


I agree, there was a time and no doubt some still are not having them tested they way they see it is "Oh it's ONE gene and their could be many more we just have not discovered"

I have all my cats tested, it gives me piece of mind and I like to show prospective owners I have had them tested. I even had someone ask about it this year, so general public will soon be more aware hopefully.



Taylorbaby said:


> me & A few others managed to get one closed down :thumbup: she was selling raggies that died, one in the car ont he way home   2 when it got home, 1 days later, then obviously people were calling me & my friends (also raggie breeders) for help/advice/another kitten
> 
> anyway she stopped breeding, and selling them at 6weeks, and keeping them in cages on top of cages, and in her lounge in cages giving birth while there were kids screaming and tv on loud and games/mobiles
> 
> ...


It's disgusting, I know of many reputable breeders who actually scour the ads looking for BYBs and actually buy the Raggies they can, to save them from these people.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> me & A few others managed to get one closed down :thumbup: she was selling raggies that died, one in the car ont he way home   2 when it got home


Blimey, didn't the buyers have any idea the kittens were so ill??

Liz


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lizward said:


> Blimey, didn't the buyers have any idea the kittens were so ill??
> 
> Liz


Im guessing they wanted to save money? i dont know, when i went they just laid there  only about 5 weeks, they said ready to go, barely moved no 'go' in them, it was really awful, i wasnt allowed to see mum, she was kept out the back, but i sneaked into the hallway to see the door shutting behind her and it was cages on cages on cages all filled with kittens/cats 

i heard noises in the lounge, i couldnt sit down (they offered) as the places was, well, for want of a better word a total crap hole, the tv was a massive plasma, kids on brand new games, all screaming where i was, a tiny room, i said 'whats that noise?' they didnt know, i kept hearing it and she said 'oh this' and lifted up some curtains, under them were 2 dog crates and 2 mum giving birth   i was so upset i wante to cry, but i was pretending to be a kitten buyer so i couldnt do anything  

then they started going on about dad, i said can i use him as a stud, can i see where he lives, they said no his outside in a shed, i said can i see him if his the dad to the kittens, they brought him in and he was covered in matts and had lots of crap round his eyes, i just said his lovely 

they offered me 2 pregnant girls as they wanted rid of them, said id make a bundle as they are 'pedigree' they also bred other breeds (and crosses as 'pedigrees' said that the studs were all grand champs....yet had no paperwork???

started telling me about their dog, all toy ones all 'rare' (Werent rare just your average toy dog) no papers but they couldnt wait to breed, she had about 6 from what i remember and she was buying 3 more and had to travel for them.

i am gobsmacked that ANYONE could walk in and buy one, i literally dio not know how someone went there and left witha kitten  if people tihnk that that is 'normal' well, then i dont know i really dont


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

WindyCity said:


> It's disgusting, I know of many reputable breeders who actually scour the ads looking for BYBs and actually buy the Raggies they can, to save them from these people.


thats CRAZY!! they are giving these people money & making room for them to b reed again!! we need to STOP people buying them so they cant sell them and will STOP breeding   thats not the way to do it!
what do then breeders then do? sell them on? vac them? for more money??


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> i am gobsmacked that ANYONE could walk in and buy one, i literally dio not know how someone went there and left witha kitten  if people tihnk that that is 'normal' well, then i dont know i really dont


Perhaps they felt sorry for the kittens 

Liz


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lizward said:


> Perhaps they felt sorry for the kittens
> 
> Liz


who knows? all i know is all the people we spoke to, all of them had died, the people didint give a toss said 'prive you bought 'it' from us' 'was fine when it left' all that stuff etc and their reputation was getting bigger and the rspca was told etc, and in the end they just gave up and sold all the cat, un-spayed though  some pregnant  but hopefully to better homes.

i always say never buy a kitten if you feel sorry for it, itll only end up in heartache and a empty pocket, for the sake of £100 is it really worth it??? leave them there, they wont be able to sell them and will stop producing them *hopefully* they sold for £250-300. you can get fully vac health tested for £350-400

at the mo on here there are british cross ragdolls selling for £375  all sold at 8 weeks old, and yet pedigrees are £250-300 all fully vac and they are older /cant sell them.

people buying them have more money than sense or just are stupid!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> at the mo on here there are british cross ragdolls selling for £375  all sold at 8 weeks old, and yet pedigrees are £250-300 all fully vac and they are older /cant sell them.


I think a lot of it is the age. People expect to buy kittens at 8 weeks. By 13 weeks they expect to get the price significantly reduced.

Liz


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lizward said:


> I think a lot of it is the age. People expect to buy kittens at 8 weeks. By 13 weeks they expect to get the price significantly reduced.
> 
> Liz


that 5weeks isnt really anything, there isnt a different apart from they are weaned better mum has taught them more they learn more from littermates and human mum working with them  i mean not in cuteness factor or playing wise, they arent missing out, anyone would think they haveto wait 2years if they cant wait 5bloody weeks


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

I agree with the age thing. So many people see the lttle kittens (especially if you have a few litters at the same time) and point to the 5/6 week old kittens "saying I want one of them"....erm it IS going to grow and be the same size as THIS one.  

I had someone local visit and she said she wanted to see the kittens etc. The conversation quickly turned into her "looking for something to do for money", I showed my "vet folder", gave her a price for a cat and for stud use etc and didn't see her for dust. :lol: She wanted "a little cute one".


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