# Feeding dog without dog food



## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

Hi I have a Border Collie, her names Molly (see bellow for image)









I have decided to change her diet.
I have read the 2 parts cooked meat, 1 part veg and 1 part grains (brown rice/rolled oats) is the perfect menu, is this right?
I don't want to give her BARF diet or raw food 
Is there any supplements I would have to give her so she doesn't develop any deficiencys ?

Thanks


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## toffee44 (Oct 21, 2011)

Perfect menu wouldn't contain grains, very little nutrition from veg and cooked meat is limited in nutrition I would worry thr is not a whole balanced menu. Sorry 

Can I ask why not raw? Is in handling/ storage/ worries that's stopping you ?
Have you looked into high grade kibble fish4dogs, acana, orijen


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi and welcome 

Don't wish to sound rude but you've read very wrong  where did you read that, out of interest?


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## kathateria (Nov 11, 2012)

not everyone likes to feed raw.


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## Pinkchi (Feb 5, 2011)

Not an ideal diet for a canine i'm afraid.

If raw or barf really isn't an option then perhaps take a look at a high quality grain free kibble or wet food as suggested above?

Take a look at the raw feeding sticky, a raw diet is not that difficult once you get into it and has many benefits as well as being a balanced and natural diet for your dog.


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## Dumples (Oct 31, 2012)

That's pretty much what our old dog was fed (I didn't know squat about raw feeding then, and not sure I would have done that anyway).

If you _don't_ want to feed raw - for whatever reason - then in my opinion, home cooked has to be better than kibble - it's processed, you have no control over what's in it, or how long it's been sitting on a shelf in a warehouse.

Our dog lived until he was almost 16. His teeth were like those of a 4 year old, he had no joint pain or stiffness at all.

As for supplements, we gave him fish oil, and later in life, green lipped mussel extract. You can buy multi-vit supplements for your dogs.

Good luck with what you decide. But personally, I think that would be a good home cooked diet for your dog. There is so much info out there about diets for dogs - it's all become a bit silly really. I'm not sure if there is a definitive answer to what is a good diet for a dog.

I think your dog would love you for that food.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

kathateria said:


> not everyone likes to feed raw.


No one is saying the OP should? Toffee was just asking. Jeez!

And your comment was less than useful..

OP. Cooked meat and veg offers very little nutritional value for dogs. Dogs don't have a need for grains at all, except to fill them a little when ill.

Can I ask what you are feeding at the moment? And why you want to change to a Home cooked diet?

DogAware.com Articles: Homemade Cooked Diets for Dogs


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## toffee44 (Oct 21, 2011)

kathateria said:


> not everyone likes to feed raw.


I am asking as the OP seems to be very prepared to A) research a good diet and B) prepare one, so wondering what was holding him/her back about raw/barf.

Not that raw is the best and the only option for a great diet for dogs.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

When it comes down to it raw feeding/BARF relies on variety of meat types and organs to fulfill nutritional requirements. Commercial food has to conform to set guidelines about nutrition (although they do influence these guidelines). Everything I've read (although it's not a great deal) indicates that with home cooking, it is harder to cover the basic nutritional requirements often needing supplements. For me, if you need supplements I feel there is something wrong with the core diet. If you want to home cook I really suggest you research it carefully.


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## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

Hi thanks for all of your responses!
The reason for not wanting raw/BARF is partly due too storage, also I just hate the idea of feeding her raw meet, I know dogs can eat it, and its probably really beneficial for them, I just don't like the idea and wouldn't be comfortable with that.

I currently feed her Wainwrights, from pets at home, she has 60g dry mixed with half a pack wet, once a day.

The lady in Pets At Home said Wainwrights was the best commercial dog food for a dog, as it has a low cereal content and high meat content, I later find out its their own brand .... I suppose that's why staff recommend it.

The reason for wanting to swap her to home meals, is because of what I have read online, I read that commercial dog food contains Disabled, Diseased, Deformed and Dead (DOA to slaughter house) meats, which I cant knowingly feed to my dog.

The vet I spoke too today suggested adding something called SA37 powder to the menu I wrote above, or add a "pet tab" too it, but ultimately doesn't recommend it, so I asked what he recommend, "Royal Cannin, and as it happens we sell it over there" -.-

She is slightly over weight, and is small for her bread, she was the runt/baby of the litter, so smaller than most other Border Collies.

What if I adjust the menu slightly? say 2 part cooked meat, 1 part veg, 1 part boiled egg and some rice, just a little ?

I bought a back of Cod Liver Oil capsules today, but my vet said not too give them too her because they contain Vitamin A and D, which can potentially be bad for her.

Other than commercial and BARF/raw what can you suggest?

Thanks again for all your help


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## toffee44 (Oct 21, 2011)

How about home cook meat and veg alongside a good quality food I see nothing wrong with WW wet do maybe feed alongside that??? At least you then know the diet is complete?


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## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

toffee44 said:


> How about home cook meat and veg alongside a good quality food I see nothing wrong with WW wet do maybe feed alongside that??? At least you then know the diet is complete?


Thing is, that would work out quite expensive as would be paying for both types of food, ideally I wanted one diet I could put her on and only have one dog food bill


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

1iam5mith said:


> Thing is, that would work out quite expensive as would be paying for both types of food, ideally I wanted one diet I could put her on and only have one dog food bill


TBH with you. Buying her meat and veg to cook will be more expensive than feeding her on raw or dry&wet food. You can't buy stuff from suppliers and cook it, it'll have to be human grade from the supermarket or butchers. Which is like cooking for another person in the house. IMO anyway.

I see no sense in cooking for my dogs, I consider them spoilt on a raw diet, let alone cooking for them... I shudder at the thought of spending hours over a stove to then wait for it to fully cool to give it to them. The OH would complain even more that they are better fed than him!

Cooking depletes the goodness and nutritions in the foods so in order for her to get enough, you'd have to feed her extra or buy multi vits alongside.

So IMHO, I'd just stick to what you're giving her or go for the following: Barking Heads, Acana, Applaws, Fish4dogs, Taste of the wild or Raw/BARF.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

TBH, getting a home cooked diet right is hard. You will almost certainly have to add a calcium supplement and work out what meats contain what vitamins, minerals etc and in what quantities. And then make sure the dog has all of those in the correct quantities. Plus make up for anything the meat is deficient in (cooking meat takes away a lot of the stuff thats good for dogs).

Not all commercial food contains crap, wainwrights wet is IMHO the best on the market, very high meat content and low grain content, plus is good value for cash (you can get grain free, organic etc but the price is astronomical - hence it not getting my vote as best).

No wainwights dry isn't THE best, but its a good food. And I'd in all honestly suggest you stick with that over moving to home cooked.

I feed raw, but fed wainwrights before hand, the wet anyway.


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## Lab-lover (Mar 31, 2008)

I've never fed my dogs on a solely home-cooked diet (only the occassional left overs from a roast as a one-off treat). 

However, I do know a couple of people who have fed their dogs on a home-cooked diet for years and their dogs look in good shape. They give their dogs a variety of proteins - meats, fish, egg, mixed with various cooked fruits/veg (dogs can't digest raw veg) and occasional potato/rice for bulk. They also add some oils (flaxseed, I think) to make their coats glossy. 

Years ago most poeple fed their dogs on left-over table scraps and their dogs lived well into old age.

If you look at most dry foods there is not a lot of difference in the ingredients, except that it is processed.

Nowadays I think people are pressurised into buying complete foods by the big food giants and vets, and everyone has their own idea which is the 'best' food, usually what they are selling, as you have found out at [email protected], so it's hard to trust people's opinions.

I think as long as you vary the food you give so that your dog has a broad diet, and perhaps give supplements as a safety net (which is what many BARF people do too) then your dog should be fine. The only negative I can see is that it will take up a lot of your time preparing food, however, it must be very rewarding seeing your dog enjoying the different tastes and textures instead of eating boring old kibble!


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## kathateria (Nov 11, 2012)

if op decided to go with the rice/meat/veg type died,could giving the dog a bone a day,compensate for the calcium loss?ribs are great. igave mine ribs the other day


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## ameliajane (Mar 26, 2011)

Have you considered Origen? It's a very high quality dry food, organic and, from what i can gather, it's made from high quality meat and fish and not by-products of the slaughter industry. It wins pet food awards every year.

It's also high in protein, which means although it seems quite pricey you actually feed very little - i once worked out it cost about the same as feeding pedigree chum with mixer.

I had a dog very similar to your's and overweight too and i found the weight came off very well with the Origen as it's low in carbohydrate and has a low glycemic index.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

1iam5mith said:


> The reason for wanting to swap her to home meals, is because of what I have read online, I read that commercial dog food contains Disabled, Diseased, Deformed and Dead (DOA to slaughter house) meats, which I cant knowingly feed to my dog.


Not in the UK

*Petfood plants can only use certain category 3 animal by-products.*
Plants manufacturing petfood must be approved in accordance with Article 24 of Regulation
(EC) 1069/2009 and Article 19 of Regulation (EC) 142/2011. Petfood must be placed on the
market in accordance with Article 35 of Regulation (EC) 1069/2009.
Plants must meet the requirements of Annex IX Chapter I of Regulation (EC) 142/2011 and the
general requirements set out in Annex XIII chapter I. Specific requirements for raw petfood,
processed petfood and dog chews including end points (after which the petfood is no longer
controlled by the Regulations) are set out in Annex XIII Chapter II. Annex XIII Chapter III sets
down the rules for flavouring innards for the manufacture of petfood.
Raw petfood from retail shops for supplying the consumer on the spot and derived from animals
slaughtered on farm for domestic consumption are out of scope (Article 2.2(i) and (j) of
Regulation (EC) 1069/2009).
Animal Health guidance on petfood plants will be available shortly.

*Article 10 of Regulation (EC) 1069/2009 defines category 3 animal by-products.* Category 3
materials are low risk materials. Category 3 material includes parts of animals that has been
passed fit for human consumption in a slaughterhouse but which are not intended for
consumption, either because they are not parts of animals that we normally eat (hides, hair,
feathers, bones etc) or for commercial reasons. Category 3 material also includes former
foodstuffs (waste from food factories and retail premises such as butchers and supermarkets).
Catering waste, including domestic kitchen waste is category 3 material, though it is only in the
scope of the Regulations in certain situations, to prevent it from being fed to livestock (which is
banned under the Regulation) or such as when it is intended for composting or anaerobic
digestion.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13688-animal-by-products-controls-111130.pdf


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

if you are seriously considering this then I would look into balanceit.com its free to create a recipe however they have their own vitamin supplement that they try to sell you but also create recipes with human supplements for a fee...at least you know its complete and balanced.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

I think you might be mistaken in thinking that feeding half and half would be more expensive.

You're not feeding double the amount, so will save 50% on what you were paying for the 'dog food' before, which should ultimately pay for the 50% home cooked that you were planning.

If you do this then there's less pressure on having to bulk buy human grade meat, but can take advantage of occasional supermarket special offers, offcuts from butchers, whoopsied reduced items, bulk packs of frozen veggies if that's what you intend to do, without the additional pressure of having to make sure you always have plenty of variety in stock.

Half and half is probably the best way to go when you get started as you're feeding half a balanced diet, and also getting the pleasure from home cooking too. Certainly wouldn't do any harm to add a good all round supplement such as SA37, or even have a look at the Dorwest range of herbs. Plenty of raw feeders add supplements to the diet anyway, and you're unlikely to overdo it if you follow the manufacturers dosing instructions.

I understand you're squeamish about raw. I was to start with when I first ever fed my dogs raw chicken wings as a treat, and first introduced trialling a complete raw diet. But just one look at the chop smacking, bowl clearing excitement from your dog, compared with dog food day in day out will really go a long way to soothing your fears so why not supplement with the odd meaty bone every now and again?


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet....

I feed my dogs entirely on home-cooked food. After Shorty had some major dental surgery I noticed that his convalescent diet of cooked meat and rice etc. was working wonders on Gruff's dodgy tum too (couldn't feed Shorty on home cooked and leave Gruff out!). So I did a bit of reading about the ratio of ingredients etc. and changed over.

It's been about 4 months now, and the benefits claimed by raw are showing on home cooked - shiny coat, better formed, smaller, less frequent poos, and now I think a bit more about bones etc. for teeth, they are looking much whiter too. It made sense to me that as I wouldn't expect myself to thrive on processed food, I shouldn't expect my dogs to either. 

Shorty is in the final stages of heart failure, yet still has a good appetite and a soft, shiny coat. When he's had constipation problems due to his illness they have been easy to manage by diet rather than medication (mashed sweet potato keeps the old boy regular, and he loves it....good for hiding nasty tasting pills too).

My vet is happy, my dogs are healthy, and it takes me less than an hour a week to make up their food for the week. Slightly cheaper than the quality commercial stuff too.


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## kathateria (Nov 11, 2012)

myshkin said:


> I'm going to stick my head above the parapet....
> 
> I feed my dogs entirely on home-cooked food. After Shorty had some major dental surgery I noticed that his convalescent diet of cooked meat and rice etc. was working wonders on Gruff's dodgy tum too (couldn't feed Shorty on home cooked and leave Gruff out!). So I did a bit of reading about the ratio of ingredients etc. and changed over.
> 
> ...


I do similar. certainly poo less.
pain in the bum making it up,but i bought loads of little storage tubs,so they are measured properly.then just defrost it and tip it in the bowl.liver is so cheap,which i give twice a week.
iceland meat is really good for this.its all diced up to make up a batch,for a few days.
The vet said it creates less tartar on teeth than other wet food,which is a plus.i was looking at pet food,and one had 4% meat content
This is for a dog with sore gums


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## Lab-lover (Mar 31, 2008)

All this talk of tasty home cooking is making me tempted to try it out on my dogs too!!!

I've always thought kibble must be like eating cardboard day-in-day-out, and I'm sure any dog would prefer a nice warm cooked dinner with different textures!

I think I may be doing some reading up on quantities and recipes too .....


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

myshkin said:


> I'm going to stick my head above the parapet....


Hardly 

Would be interested in details though about your research, requirements etc. We have a lot of information on raw feeding, wet and dry commercial food but little in comparison about home cooked. To each their own but the important thing is really to have the knowledge available to allow people to ensure their dogs eat a balanced diet.


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## kathateria (Nov 11, 2012)

I look at the tins in the shops.
contains rice (40p a bag)
contains pasta(30p a bag) I crush that.
contains vegetables. (75p a bag)
i dont add lots of ground chicken beaks or claws,to claim it has 'meat product' in it.
Meats are belly pork,chopped,no more than £3
Chicken,£2.50 a bag
liver £1.20 for loads
i am thinking of getting some calcium suppliment and multi vitamins,but yet to go into that.
I think for larger dogs,raw is cheaper.but for my tiddler,this is a cheaper option.and he is one fussy dog
I plan to give him a bone regularly,so may not need the calcium


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Goblin said:


> Hardly
> 
> Would be interested in details though about your research, requirements etc. We have a lot of information on raw feeding, wet and dry commercial food but little in comparison about home cooked. To each their own but the important thing is really to have the knowledge available to allow people to ensure their dogs eat a balanced diet.


Oh, it's frowned upon to go against the orthodoxy around here 

There is a great deal of information about raw feeding, but very little reliable research, so it's no better informed than any other choice in reality. Which isn't to say it's not a valid choice, of course.

The knowledge of what a dog needs is not as complex as it's made out to be by the sellers of supplements and foods etc., frankly. Those of us who feed ourselves well do so without memorising detailed chemical breakdowns of our food, we do it by sticking to certain basic principles. It's not really rocket science, for humans or dogs.


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## kathateria (Nov 11, 2012)

Ive taken some pics of what ive just done.Sorry if its boring
i have 2 dogs atm,the other is being adopted this week via a rescue (with the rotten teeth)
but my other dog enjoys this too.

I started with
3 pork chops economy from iceland £3 for a bag.Must be about 8 in a bag.
4 kidneys. Pack of 8,I think £1.87
Frozen veg about 80p
Parsley,when cooking the meat,for a little spice.Supposed to be good for dogs.
gravey browning.
And rice.The rice in the pic,is the amount I cooked.Im still getting used to the quantities.So there was alot left over.Which can be frozen.


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## kathateria (Nov 11, 2012)

Sugar is to show you how much rice was used,with some spare


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

myshkin said:


> Oh, it's frowned upon to go against the orthodoxy around here
> 
> There is a great deal of information about raw feeding, but very little reliable research, so it's no better informed than any other choice in reality. Which isn't to say it's not a valid choice, of course.
> 
> The knowledge of what a dog needs is not as complex as it's made out to be by the sellers of supplements and foods etc., frankly. Those of us who feed ourselves well do so without memorising detailed chemical breakdowns of our food, we do it by sticking to certain basic principles. It's not really rocket science, for humans or dogs.


How many humans do you know who have diet related illnesses?

Obesity is at epidemic proportions. Dietetis is on the rise etc. plenty of diet related illness show we as a race aren't getting out diets right (myself includes btw).

Dogs aren't humans. They don't get to decide what they have for food. They get what we give them. So it's up to is to be sure it's balanced and complete.

Dogs also don't have the same basic principles as humans.

You seem to be under the impression someone was having a go. I myself am curious. How do you decide what to feed and know your dogs diet is balanced?

Going by looks is null and void as dogs fed complete and utter crap can look fabulous.

I'd also ask you to share the knowledge. Especially since this is a thread asking about it. You feed home cooked. Why not give someone looking for info your formula etc. and give people like myself who are always interested in leaning more about nutrition the benefit of the knowledge you've gathered.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Lyceum said:


> How many humans do you know who have diet related illnesses?
> 
> Obesity is at epidemic proportions. Dietetis is on the rise etc. plenty of diet related illness show we as a race aren't getting out diets right (myself includes btw).
> 
> ...


Under the impression that someone was having a go? No, but expected it to happen soon after daring to say I fed home cooked. And here we are.

I don't have a "formula", that's pretty much the point. I feed roughly half meat, and 2 quarters each carbs/veg, depending on the dog and their state of health. No more than 10% offal each week, and no pork, very limited beef. And in the absence of any reliable research into any kind of non-commercial food, the informed opinion of Bruce Fogle and my vets are good enough for me.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

myshkin said:


> I feed roughly half meat, and 2 quarters each carbs/veg, depending on the dog and their state of health. No more than 10% offal each week, and no pork, very limited beef. And in the absence of any reliable research into any kind of non-commercial food, the informed opinion of Bruce Fogle and my vets are good enough for me.


That's a formula, and no doubt extremely helpful to anyone wanting to start home feeding since it' something you do.

How did you come to the decide on those proportions?

That's all I was asking.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Lyceum said:


> That's a formula, and no doubt extremely helpful to anyone wanting to start home feeding since it' something you do.
> 
> How did you come to the decide on those proportions?
> 
> That's all I was asking.


Honestly - advice in a Bruce Fogle book. There is so much information on the web about feeding your dog non-commercially that could very well be very good, but essentially it's all just someone's opinion. If the only information I could find was opinion, I was going with an opinion I regard as authoritative (and yes, I know that's subjective too!).

I don't go with set weights, just rough proportions. My 4 year old who runs with both of us needs more than my elderly dog who doesn't do more than potter out to the garden. The little old man needs more veg to keep his aging bowels functioning than my young dog with a sensitive tum....that sort of thing.


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## Dumples (Oct 31, 2012)

*


myshkin said:



There is so much information on the web about feeding your dog non-commercially that could very well be very good, but essentially it's all just someone's opinion. If the only information I could find was opinion, I was going with an opinion I regard as authoritative (and yes, I know that's subjective too!).

Click to expand...

*


myshkin said:


> This is exactly how I feel too. I got myself in such a tizzy in recent months, trying to decide what is best for my ageing dog. It is an absolute minefield out there, and I ended up on here. Raw green tripe kept coming up as being good for dogs with early stages of kidney stages, and I went from there. I was so grateful for the advice I was given. Although I admit I have been taken aback at times about the strength of opinion about certain food related topics, and do wonder WHO, if anyone, has the right answers. My girl is really enjoying her raw food right now (but then she'd eat an empty cornflake packet), but if her next bloods show a dramatic change for the worse, then I might think again. I'm also giving her lots of (blended to break down the cellulose) green veggies, which seems to fly in the face of what some raw feeders believe aswell. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer. Most of us, I'm sure, do what we feel is best for our dog. It might not be perfect - for every article about one diet being perfect, there'll be another saying how we're killing our dogs.
> 
> For what it's worth, it was our vet at the time who gave me the proportions of what home cooked food to give my dog.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Dumples said:


> I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer. Most of us, I'm sure, do what we feel is best for our dog. It might not be perfect - for every article about one diet being perfect, there'll be another saying how we're killing our dogs.


This is pretty much what I think. The right way will depend on the individual dog, and sometimes on the person's situation too. As long as the dog is thriving or managing illness well on your chosen method of feeding, it's the right way in my book


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## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

myshkin said:


> I'm going to stick my head above the parapet....
> 
> I feed my dogs entirely on home-cooked food. After Shorty had some major dental surgery I noticed that his convalescent diet of cooked meat and rice etc. was working wonders on Gruff's dodgy tum too (couldn't feed Shorty on home cooked and leave Gruff out!). So I did a bit of reading about the ratio of ingredients etc. and changed over.
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks for you reply, do you have a link to a menu for home cooked food to feed my dog? 
if not where can I find how much of each to give her to make her diet balanced, also since home feeding have you noticed any behavior change? do they bark more/less ? more energy/less? still playful?


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

1iam5mith said:


> Hi, thanks for you reply, do you have a link to a menu for home cooked food to feed my dog?
> if not where can I find how much of each to give her to make her diet balanced, also since home feeding have you noticed any behavior change? do they bark more/less ? more energy/less? still playful?


Hi 1iam, not sure it deserves the title of "menu", but this is what I do:

I make a huge pan of whatever meats were going cheap that week - usually a mix of diced turkey thigh, lamb mince, sometimes beef mince (but not too much - I've heard it can irritate sensitive tums, although I've never had a problem with my dogs on beef), turkey mince, odd bits of lamb when I order half a lamb for the freezer and lambs' liver or chicken giblets (offal no more than about 10% per week). I cook in a little water to make a fairly disgusting meal sludge which has a bit of a jelly like gravy when it cools (they love the jelly stuff ).

I also cook up a big batch of rice and veg - carrots, cabbage, peas, swede, parsnip and broccoli go down well with my dogs. They love sweet potato, but it goes through the system fast, so I use it as a laxative for my little old dog and only give a tiny bit to the younger dog.

I feed half the bowl meat, and 2 quarters each rice and veg. To save time you could mix separate portions in those proportions, I just like to be able to vary for the different needs of both dogs at each mealtime. Also, sometimes they'll get things like leftover mashed potato instead of rice, which they love. As Shorty is in heart failure, I don't salt anything I cook for myself that I am planning to give to him too.

As for overall meal size - it really depends on the dog and his activity levels, it was a very short period of trial and error for us to start with.

The only behaviour change I've really noticed is that they are enjoying their meals much more. Gruff had a constant runny tummy on premium dried food, so naturally he wasn't that keen on eating it! He's now enjoying his food and has firmer, smaller bowel movements. They both had noticeably shinier coats after a couple of months, and have far less of a "doggy" smell. To me that's not just a cosmetic improvement, it's a sign of better overall health of the skin too.

I'm fairly sure Shorty wouldn't still be with us if we hadn't changed when we did. One of the early signs that he was deteriorating was that his appetite was declining. He licks his bowl clean now, and I'm happier to not feed processed food to a dog in his state of health 

They need bones etc. for teeth cleaning (I never found kibble very effective at that anyway!) so I give them big bones from [email protected] and Stag Bars regularly too.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

This is a really good thread. I also find the idea of raw food repulsive. I can't even look at the thread where dogs are chowing down on whole bits of animal. (Not saying it isn't good for them but really not for me or mine!) At the moment I am feeding mine Bozita as a wet food as it is supposed to be human grade meat. Feeding home cooked would be impractical for me but it's nice to know there is an alternative to commercial or raw.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

This thread is providing "food for thought"

If you take the ingredients of the simpler wets e.g. FG - Chicken (72%), Brown Rice (4%), Peas (2%), Carrots (2%), Salmon Oil, Seaweed, Minerals, Vitamins, Herbs, Glucosamine, Chondroitin. 
Fishmongers - Salmon (70%), Rehydrated Potato (20%), Vitamins, Minerals, Seaweed. 
WW - Lamb (min.65%), Lamb Liver (min. 5%), Brown Rice (min. 5%), Minerals, Seaweed, Chicory Root.
It give a good base to build on.

Having said that and been a fan of ND for ages,their list of ingredients isn't quite as simple. Prob down the the vit and mins added but reminds me of the old rule of thumb - shorted the list, better the food:yikes:


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## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

So for example, if my dog eats 200g (she doesnt, im not sure, but just for example) 
if I feed: 
120g meat
60g brown rice
20g veg
plus salmon oil or flaxseed oil 

would that be balanced?


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I would probably add a supplement like Dorwest Keepers mix to it


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Trying to stay out of this thread as I don't know that much about it and do not want people to feel pressured by a "raw feeder" BUT



1iam5mith said:


> would that be balanced?


My immediate concern looking at that list is the calcium/phosphorus ratio. Lots of phosphorus hardly any calcium. Recommended guideline for Ca/P ratio is 1/1 - 2/1 for an adult dog. Crushed eggshells I believe are one alternative although do not know how much calcium they contain. Certain vegetables are also contain calcium but I've heard conflicting reports about things like spinach. Some say useful, others say avoid for dogs due to oxalic acid which can leech calcium from the body and cause kidney stones. May be worth actually getting a couple of BARF'ers to say which vegetables are the better ones as I really don't have a clue 

Also remember it's not everything needed at every meal, but balance over time. May mean you add eggshell (example) couple of times a week rather than every meal.

One site I find interesting when looking at things like this is Nutrition Facts and Analysis although it's not designed for dogs when it comes to recommended daily allowance etc.


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## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

So would this work out complete for her? 
wainwrights complete food kibble 30g £0.10
beef mince 50g £0.19
mixed veg 50g £0.03

total = £0.32 per day, which is 130g of food for her, and would alternate chicken(or turkey) to beef to lamb every other week, so beef one week, chicken(or turkey) the next, and lamb the next, and back to beef etc

would that be balanced because of the kibble?


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

I have also been looking into a home cooked diet. I emailed burns dog food and they recommended a book called - Home prepared dog and cat diets, a healthful alternative' By Donald R. Strombeck. The diets he gives are balanced by a computer. All the information from this book is now available online for free on his website -

Home-Prepared Dog & Cat Diets

There is also a an interview with Donald R. Stombeck on this website -

Home-Prepared Dog and Cat Diets Book Available Free | The Bark

www.thebark.com/content/donald-r-strombeck-talks-dog-nutrition-and-pet-food-recalls


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

What an interesting thread!

I am very tempted to try a home cooked diet for Dex for a month. I've been driving myself (and everyone else ) mad about which food to switch him onto now that he's refusing to even look at Wainwrights wet trays....

I did try raw quite a while back, but he didn't seem overly keen on bones and kept getting an upset tummy. He has quite a delicate stomach for a Lab!

Thanks GOLDENRETRIEVER MAN for those links - am going to them right now 


Dex adores fish, so I could get white fish from Iceland which shouldn't cost much...

Thanks MYSHKIN - really helpful


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I don't understand the comment that meat, veg and grains isn't balanced but raw is when only feeding raw meat and bones? 

I agree they don't need grains, my puppy is intolerant I'm switching to Eden a diet based on meat, fish and eggs. Also small amount of veg in for carbs. They do need some carbs for energy cos body takes time to convert protein to energy and uses energy to do it. 

When I do something the dogs can have like chicken and veg I add a bit to top of their dinner as a treat and just reduce the amount of kibble that day... Kibble's do usually contain supplements that would be missing on home cooked only or just meat and nothing else. 

I'm also trying a few wet pouches to stuff kongs with then they have plenty of variety as I find most dog treats have cereal in. 

I think it's always handy to have a good bag of kibble for days you don't manage to cook fresh so they have all nutrients they need for at least one meal.


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

What I have read is carbs are not essential to a dog but they provide a source of energy, that is both lower in calories and cheaper than fat or protein.


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> I don't understand the comment that meat, veg and grains isn't balanced but raw is when only feeding raw meat and bones?
> 
> I agree they don't need grains, my puppy is intolerant I'm switching to Eden a diet based on meat, fish and eggs. Also small amount of veg in for carbs. They do need some carbs for energy cos body takes time to convert protein to energy and uses energy to do it.
> 
> ...


I am not sure whether i understood it correctly but as a person that feeds homecooked it does need to have supplements added to it unless it is less than 10% of another commercially prepared food i.e wet/dry dog food


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

demetris20 said:


> I am not sure whether i understood it correctly but as a person that feeds homecooked it does need to have supplements added to it unless it is less than 10% of another commercially prepared food i.e wet/dry dog food


What supplements do you use?


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> What supplements do you use?


I buy that from the university of edinbrugh (spelling?) comes from this people though called balanceit - needs a prescription from your vet (you can buy direct without one) the recipes are free for a healthy pet (mine eats the healthy pet ones - i actually created lots of recipes for variety). it is owned by veterinary nutritionists - i checked credentials etc and mine really loves the homecooked meals and variety that he now gets!

forgot to say that he has been on this for a little bit over 1 year and doing very well  hope this helps


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

demetris20 said:


> I buy that from the university of edinbrugh (spelling?) comes from this people though called balanceit - needs a prescription from your vet (you can buy direct without one) the recipes are free for a healthy pet (mine eats the healthy pet ones - i actually created lots of recipes for variety). it is owned by veterinary nutritionists - i checked credentials etc and mine really loves the homecooked meals and variety that he now gets!
> 
> forgot to say that he has been on this for a little bit over 1 year and doing very well  hope this helps


There is a balanceit website in usa. There supplement is very expensive


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

Yes, but lasts me 4 months, so not really that expensive (costs roughly £50) - it depends on the size of the dog - mine is a smallish whippet and the recipes you use

if you are just feeding a one off meal i wouldnt use it personally - but for me its essential to make sure he gets everything he needs as i dont feed anything else

and thanks to pogo i now own a dehydrator to make treats and chews!  even healthier!


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

demetris20 said:


> Yes, but lasts me 4 months, so not really that expensive (costs roughly £50) - it depends on the size of the dog - mine is a smallish whippet and the recipes you use
> 
> if you are just feeding a one off meal i wouldnt use it personally - but for me its essential to make sure he gets everything he needs as i dont feed anything else
> 
> and thanks to pogo* i now own a dehydrator to make treats and chews!*  even healthier!


Hi, what is a dehydrater? and how do you make own chews with it? I have puppy needing special diet. Would microwave work too?


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> Hi, what is a dehydrater? and how do you make own chews with it? I have puppy needing special diet. Would microwave work too?


check out this thread http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/283238-im-love.html


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## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

So if I feed her part complete dry food (like 30g) will I need to supplement her also?


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

In the late 80s I had a dog that required less than 8% protein, he had chronic liver disease that also affected his brain. initialy he was on a prescription diet but then required less than the 8% this was. He had been given 12 months to live.
I used fatty minced beef and flaked dried maize in the last 5mins of cooking, this was then allowed to set to make a brawn to which I added mirracoat which contained vits/mins and trace elements this dog was kept alive and well with a good quality of life, on this diet for another 4 1/2 years before his liver packed in.
So it can be done he did not have any veg, the minced beef was fatty to reduce the protein content and provide extra energy. He was 9 when pts to sleep yet they had only expected him to live to 5 years max. Even at 8 years he went on the morning pape round with my daughter and was still active, very shiny glossy coat, bright eyed, all symptoms related to his brain due to his liver not processing high proteins went.


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

if it was my dog I would not supplement if the homecooked does not exceed 10% of the daily allowance on a daily basis (i.e if im feeding 200grams of dry that has 400calories in it then feeding 180 grams would be 360calories - that leaves 40 calories of homecooked which is not much for example half a white fish steak gives that amount)

or a whole homecooked meal every so often just as a change


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## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

So lets say 30-50g meat, 20g rice, 30g veg and maybe 30g complete kibble? Would she stay healthy having that?


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I thought raw was confusing. 

Whats wrong with just getting a decent/good quality kibble.


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

SLB said:


> I thought raw was confusing.
> 
> Whats wrong with just getting a decent/good quality kibble.


Fresh meat, veg and grain/potato or kibble. What would you rather eat? lol


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Fresh meat, veg and grain/potato or kibble. What would you rather eat? lol


I'd rather eat something someones not bodging up or doesn't know how to feed because of lack of research.

And actually, if I ever had to give up raw - my dogs would be fed on Taste of the Wild or Acana - because it's grain free.


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

1iam5mith said:


> So lets say 30-50g meat, 20g rice, 30g veg and maybe 30g complete kibble? Would she stay healthy having that?


what is her daily allowance for dry?


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Fresh meat, veg and grain/potato or kibble. What would you rather eat? lol


From a dogs perspective then certainly not grain that's for sure!


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

SLB said:


> I'd rather eat something someones not bodging up or doesn't know how to feed because of lack of research.
> 
> And actually, if I ever had to give up raw - my dogs would be fed on Taste of the Wild or Acana - because it's grain free.


 this is probably opening a can of worms but they are both in more or less the same boat in terms of research. And by research I mean peer reviewed scientific journals.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

demetris20 said:


> this is probably opening a can of worms but they are both in more or less the same boat in terms of research. And by research I mean peer reviewed scientific journals.


I've done my research into raw and I did so for months before moving mine over to it. I didn't research as I went along with it. Thats the difference between and the OP.

As for the scientific reviews - what?


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> From a dogs perspective then certainly not grain that's for sure!


Most kibble contains grain. Im sure a dog would prefer a bowl of rice and meat to kibble any day.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Most kibble contains grain. Im sure a dog would prefer a bowl of rice and meat to kibble any day.


Erm rice is a grain...


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

In regards to research isnt just a matter of making sure your meals contain enough protein amino acids, calcium and phosphurs, vitamins and minerals. There is a table of min and recommended amounts of vitamins.


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

SLB said:


> Erm rice is a grain...


Yes I know, my point was they would rather eat rice that has not been dried to a crisp ut:


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Yes I know, my point was they would rather eat it in unprocessed dried form.ut:


So you're a dog then? You know what they'd rather eat? ut:

Dogs don't have any nutritional need for grain regardless of whatever form they come in. I fed an ill dog brown rice and chicken once on vets advice - it came out the other end the same as it went in.

(going to use a smilie I thought I'd never use)

:dita:​


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

SLB said:


> So you're a dog then? You know what they'd rather eat? ut:
> 
> Dogs don't have any nutritional need for grain regardless of whatever form they come in. I fed an ill dog brown rice and chicken once on vets advice - it came out the other end the same as it went in.
> 
> ...


Well yes dogs generally do prefer unprocessed foods to dry rubbish :dita:


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Well yes dogs generally do prefer unprocessed foods to dry rubbish :dita:


Yes you're a dog? Wouldn't say that on any online dating sites you may join..

Didn't know dogs could use a computer. 

How do you know? I'm sure most of the dogs on this forum would dive into whatever food was given to them.

And Taste of the Wild and Acana aren't dry rubbish - they're two of the best foods out there. TOTW is totally grain free. You may see that up in the dry dog food index..


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

Ok put a fillet steak in one bowl and a bowl of kibble next to it, I know which 1 I would have my money on being eaten first :001_tt2:


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Ok put a fillet steak in one bowl and a bowl of kibble next to it, I know which 1 I would have my money on being eaten first :001_tt2:


Ok.

Actually I had the steak for my dinner last night and my dogs are raw fed - so of course they're going to go with whats normal - BUT they'd eat the kibble immediately after.

Plus that isn't a fair test regardless. Dogs are going to go to the steak first - but your argument is that they'd rather eat unprocessed foods as opposed the processed ones - of which I can prove.


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

SLB said:


> Ok.
> 
> Challenge accepted.


ut:...........


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Video of Pen going for the processed food rather than the unprocessed food uploading as we speak.. prepare to Suck it.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Most kibble contains grain. Im sure a dog would prefer a bowl of rice and meat to kibble any day.





SLB said:


> Erm rice is a grain...





GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Yes I know, my point was they would rather eat rice that has not been dried to a crisp ut:





GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Well yes dogs generally do prefer unprocessed foods to dry rubbish :dita:


The rice is uncooked - unprocessed. The Kibble is processed - with Rice in.
Oh and this dog is raw fed - proving dogs will eat anything. They have no preference and if they do - then you've created a fussy dog. (Note I took the bowl away before she had chance to eat the uncooked rice which would swell in the stomach)

Processed food vs unprocessed food - which would the dog rather eat? - YouTube

And I have a video proving that not all dogs would choose raw over dry food but the owner of that dog has to get some more food in first before she can film it.

Apologies for the state of the floor - I was baking earlier and threw the egg shells to the dogs.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well I can put potatoes, veg and raw meat in the same bowl and my dog will eat the potatoes and veg before the meat. He'll also eat meat before bone if I give both in the same meal but separatey (as in not a bone in meal but a chunk of meat and a bone) Offer him a piece of kibble from one hand a piece of raw meat from the other and there is absolutely no pattern as to which one he'll choose, sometimes the kibble, sometimes the raw meat. Same if you offer him a piece of carrot and a piece of raw meat. Or a piece of kibble and a piece of garlic sausage. 

My collie would have gone for the kibble every single time, he was horrified by raw meat.


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

I am going to stick my neck out too 
We switched to chicken/turkey and brown rice when D was younger. Vet reccomended 50/50. She was getting to the point where most commercial foods were going through her. I had a chat with the vet and agreed she needed a break to let the bacteria balance back out in her gut. 
I fed her roast turkey cooked on the bone. I fed her all except the bone including the fat and skin which I added hot water to and a tsp of cornflour to make a gravy. 
I would say I fed more meat than rice. probably 70/30. After a time I started to vary her diet. I added raw eggs, shell and all. I sometimes added raw mince, a variety of offel, sprats, cooked pork, lamb. I never fed veg, the majority of her diet was turkey and chicken. 

No commercial treats just cold roast chicken for treats. She absolutly thrived. She put muscle on, great coat, most the behaviour issues disappeared she looked like a very well dog. No stomach issues. 

Now, I accept what people say about RAW and BARF being very good for their dog. I have heard people who show dogs swear by feeding offel leading up to events if the dog is to look its best. I never questioned the nutrition they must get from it. I personally could not do it. However I also find it very difficult to belive that dogs get zero nutrition from cooked meat. The quality of the meat in home cooking is high. No preservatives and the meat is cooked but not cooked to the point where it wont rot for years. 
Dogs have grown up alongside man, eating raw and cooked scraps alike. 
I don't believe we know the full picture about dog nutrition yet nor human. Many a person has had doubts and become a convert when switching to RAW. I would say if its cooked vs. kibble try your dog on homemade for a couple of months. There is a huge difference. 


IMO If you can't feed RAW, go with a well balanced varied home cooked and failing that supplement you kibble with meat as often as you can. I find meat is especially important with dogs who struggle to keep weight on. 
It would be interesting to hear details of owners who have had to go to the vet because their dog was having problems with nutritional deficiency from homecooked.


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

I will also add that the fussy eating disappeared and kibble vs. homecook both of mine go for homecooked. 
Homecooked meat is IMO a much better incentive when doing training than any of the commercial dog treats especially for a scent hound.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> In regards to research isnt just a matter of making sure your meals contain enough protein amino acids, calcium and phosphurs, vitamins and minerals. There is a table of min and recommended amounts of vitamins.


Depends on how the tables are drawn up. Here's one line of argument if you haven't seen it before.. Does Raw Pet Food Warrant a Unique Set of Nutrient Requirements Ok raw vs commercial but would imagine, as you are not processing homecooked anywhere near as much similar processes are involved. It's not simply min values you have to match. You also need to allow for how things interact with each other and how much is actually absorbed by the dog in question.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Howl said:


> I am going to stick my neck out too
> We switched to chicken/turkey and brown rice when D was younger. Vet reccomended 50/50. She was getting to the point where most commercial foods were going through her. I had a chat with the vet and agreed she needed a break to let the bacteria balance back out in her gut.
> I fed her roast turkey cooked on the bone. I fed her all except the bone including the fat and skin which I added hot water to and a tsp of cornflour to make a gravy.
> I would say I fed more meat than rice. probably 70/30. After a time I started to vary her diet. I added raw eggs, shell and all. I sometimes added raw mince, a variety of offel, sprats, cooked pork, lamb. I never fed veg, the majority of her diet was turkey and chicken.
> ...


Cooking food takes away the nutritional value - well lessens it. I think unless you are prepared to do extensive research because although raw takes a lot - home cooking sounds 100 x more complicated then get a good quality kibble.

Well that was my point anyway.


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

SLB said:


> Video of Pen going for the processed food rather than the unprocessed food uploading as we speak.. prepare to Suck it.


Hardly a fair test, mix the rice with some meat and fat next time


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Howl said:


> However I also find it very difficult to belive that dogs get zero nutrition from cooked meat. The quality of the meat in home cooking is high. No preservatives and the meat is cooked but not cooked to the point where it wont rot for years.


I don't think many people would say dogs don't get any nutrition. In fact processing, such as cooking can aid the release of nutrients. There are factors in raw food however which may come into play. Interesting to read information from a Dr. Kollath in Stockholm (the guy who came up with the term probiotics). Although not dog related, (in fact the link is about vegetarianism) Conscious Eating: Second Edition - Gabriel Cousens - Google Books may be of interest. For humans he recommended more plants less meat.



> IMO If you can't feed RAW, go with a well balanced varied home cooked and failing that supplement you kibble with meat as often as you can. I find meat is especially important with dogs who struggle to keep weight on.
> It would be interesting to hear details of owners who have had to go to the vet because their dog was having problems with nutritional deficiency from homecooked.


You may also like to use the LippertSapy study 2003 which from statistics added on average 3 years to a lifespan of a dog fed home prepared meals rather than commercial foods. Not necessarily homecooked or raw.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> Hardly a fair test, mix the rice with some meat and fat next time


You said - and it is quoted - unprocessed foods. I call that a test based on your description.


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## Steeleye Span (Jan 10, 2012)

Love your BC. She is exceedingly gorgeous  I considered all kinds of feeding regimes for my two because the youngster is a very picky Pearl. Eventually settled with WW trays and Nature Diet trays for variety. I add Salmon Oil (body oil as opposed to liver oil) and both dogs are doing extremly well on it.

I thought about a raw diet and then I thought about a home cooked diet but I'm glad that I went with this option. One day I might be able to afford a complete raw diet like Natural Instinct but until then I think this is my best option.


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

SLB said:


> Cooking food takes away the nutritional value - well lessens it. I think unless you are prepared to do extensive research because although raw takes a lot - home cooking sounds 100 x more complicated then get a good quality kibble.
> 
> Well that was my point anyway.


just to add to this and also disagree on one of your points

yes but it depends on the cooking method and no its not 100 times more difficult just because there isnt a guide on this site i think its unfair to make such a statement especially since you never looked into it.

this is only my opinion


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

If I hadn't been in a situation where I had to for so long I would have given up before I saw the extent of the results. Home cooking is very time consuming it takes up a lot of space. Obviously this is just one dog. 
I know for mine what I was feeding her was much better which is all I can add. I have found a handful of brands that agree with her stomach which I now stick to but if I was in a position where I could go back to feeding mainly meat I would. 
In humans we know cooking breaks down food to make it easier to digest and allows us to access nutrients within certain foods. Dogs don't appear to need this. I don't think the 
However like I say some people based on experience alone know their dog is better on RAW. Why is it so hard to accept that a cooked diet does produce a healthier dog than kibble? Especially if the owner found multiple issues when feeding kibble or a vet recommended it in response to a health issue. 
Some of the research being used is based on humans and cats. I am not saying it isn't applicable but I don't think we are at a stage where we know enough. I am also not sure I would want more research to be done. Having talked to people working in the industry who experiment on beagles it's not something I would push for. 
I also wonder if exercise varies greatly from dog to dog, should nutrition? There only appears to be working or pet dog diets, if exercise varies does nutritional requirements from breed to breed and dog to dog.


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

Howl said:


> I am going to stick my neck out too
> We switched to chicken/turkey and brown rice when D was younger. Vet reccomended 50/50. She was getting to the point where most commercial foods were going through her. I had a chat with the vet and agreed she needed a break to let the bacteria balance back out in her gut.
> I fed her roast turkey cooked on the bone. I fed her all except the bone including the fat and skin which I added hot water to and a tsp of cornflour to make a gravy.
> I would say I fed more meat than rice. probably 70/30. After a time I started to vary her diet. I added raw eggs, shell and all. I sometimes added raw mince, a variety of offel, sprats, cooked pork, lamb. I never fed veg, the majority of her diet was turkey and chicken.
> ...


i agree with a big part of your post but i have to say that nutrtional deficiencies (spelling?) dont show overnight and no matter what food it is (cooked, raw or commercial) if its not done correctly and if a dog doesnt get evrything he or she needs then eventually it will end up going to the vet...


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

SLB said:


> You said - and it is quoted - unprocessed foods. I call that a test based on your description.


Unprocessed meal not a bowl of uncooked rice! I said a steak not a bowl of rice ut:


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Howl said:


> If I hadn't been in a situation where I had to for so long I would have given up before I saw the extent of the results. Home cooking is very time consuming it takes up a lot of space. Obviously this is just one dog.
> I know for mine what I was feeding her was much better which is all I can add. I have found a handful of brands that agree with her stomach which I now stick to but if I was in a position where I could go back to feeding mainly meat I would.
> In humans we know cooking breaks down food to make it easier to digest and allows us to access nutrients within certain foods. Dogs don't appear to need this. I don't think the
> However like I say some people based on experience alone know their dog is better on RAW. Why is it so hard to accept that a cooked diet does produce a healthier dog than kibble? Especially if the owner found multiple issues when feeding kibble or a vet recommended it in response to a health issue.
> ...


I'm not disagreeing that dogs can do well on a cooked diet - just stating the fact that when you cook something you take away some of the goodness from it.

And as for the unprocessed - you said unprocessed food - of course a dog is going to go for raw meat over kibble when it is raw fed in the first place. Oh hello ignore button.. :idea:


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

SLB said:


> I'm not disagreeing that dogs can do well on a cooked diet - just stating the fact that when you cook something you take away some of the goodness from it.
> 
> And as for the unprocessed - you said unprocessed food - of course a dog is going to go for raw meat over kibble when it is raw fed in the first place. Oh hello ignore button.. :idea:


I mean cook the steak. Not raw :idea:


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

What is everyones opinion on this homecooked recipe? Its taken from dr strombecks website. I was thinking about giving it a try.

Beef Meat and Potato Diet1/3 pound (weight before cooking) very lean beef (152 grams)3 cups potato, cooked with skin (369 grams)2 tablespoon sardines, canned, tomato sauce (38 grams)1 tablespoons vegetable (canola) oil1/2+ teaspoon bone meal powder (4 grams)1 multiple vitamin-mineral tabletprovides 862 kcalories, 43.6 g protein, 35.1 g fatsupports caloric needs of 29 pound dogOmission of sardines reduces caloric content by 68 kcalories, protein by 6.2 g and fat by 4.6 g.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

JJ has been on home cooked as Wafcol wasn't agreeing with him and he has been alot calmer. 

I do like some have some kibble handy though for days when cooking fresh is difficult. I started JJ on wet too as he was having such problems with the Wafcol so he's currently getting a variety.


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> JJ has been on home cooked as Wafcol wasn't agreeing with him and he has been alot calmer.
> 
> I do like some have some kibble handy though for days when cooking fresh is difficult. I started JJ on wet too as he was having such problems with the Wafcol so he's currently getting a variety.


What recipe and supplement do you use? Have you got any advice for people thinking of going down the home cooked route?


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> What recipe and supplement do you use? Have you got any advice for people thinking of going down the home cooked route?


I didn't use any supplements as it was only going to be temporary and I was researching online the different higher end cereal free kibble's.

I just basically made meals for myself that he could have too such as sweet potato, fish and peas, his would be boiled, mine in oven. ..or chicken and rice..I'd do a curry for me but would boil some chicken in with the rice for JJ.

It was very basic as I'm quite a basic cook myself but was only for a week. I did also order some wet trays etc but cos of snow the order was cancelled and re-delivered yesterday so the kibble got here first in the end!

Inca has always had a bit of what I was having where she could, usually with her kibble as the base though if I didn't have much in so she was still getting everything she needed from her meals.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> What recipe and supplement do you use? Have you got any advice for people thinking of going down the home cooked route?


I didn't use any supplements as it was only going to be temporary and I was researching online the different higher end cereal free kibble's.

I just basically made meals for myself that he could have too such as sweet potato, fish and peas, his would be boiled, mine in oven. ..or chicken and rice..I'd do a curry for me but would boil some chicken in with the rice for JJ.

It was very basic as I'm quite a basic cook myself but was only for a week. I did also order some wet trays etc but cos of snow the order was cancelled and re-delivered yesterday so the kibble got here first in the end!

Inca has always had a bit of what I was having where she could, usually with her kibble as the base though if I didn't have much in so she was still getting everything she needed from her meals.


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## kathateria (Nov 11, 2012)

Just to update,what I am now doing.
Raw meat,veg and boiled rice.Dont bother cooking the meat or veg.Much easier.Milo should have 200g a day,if fed exclusively on raw.So each meal,he has 75g of meat,and the rest rice and veg.I also feed chicken drumsticks,raw.So he gets the bone in his diet. I scrounge bone at the butchers,when I am in town,too.


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## kathateria (Nov 11, 2012)

Just to add,Milo's coat has nearly doubled in thickness,and softness.He doesnt stink,and doesnt fart now,well,not smelly ones
Doesnt poo as much. I get what ever meat is on offer,also liver,in place of some of the other meat eg; 80% chicken and 20% liver.
Ive also fed fish,in place of the meat. I just dont cook the meat or frozen veg,and Milo doesnt seem to mind


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## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

Finally got the perfect meal for Molly! 
We recently went to the vets for her anual booster jabs, and I told the vet when I am feeding her, The vet said it would be a great combination and no supplement needed! 

I buy a pack of value beef (horse LOL) mince, and bag of frozen mixed veg. the pack of mince (750g pack, £2.45 Tesco) will last 6-10 days, and mixed with some frozen veg, and a small handfull of wainwrights kibble. Vet said its the perfect balance! I cook it in a pan with a Tesco value stock cube and thicken with a tea spoon of gravy granules! Put in a tub and microwave whats needed each day, she has now got to the average weight for her breed and age! One more Kg and she will be classed "lean and athletic build" according too the vet! 

She is calmer, but with more energy, barks less and has a nicer coat and happier! 

Swap the mince for a turkey drummer once a fortnight with rice for a treat


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## kathateria (Nov 11, 2012)

You don't really need the gravy. I used to add it,too. But I stopped it.its quite salty


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## 1iam5mith (Nov 12, 2012)

kathateria said:


> You don't really need the gravy. I used to add it,too. But I stopped it.its quite salty


Its only the tiniest bit, like half a teaspoon over 3-4 days ... I only use it too thicken it a little


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