# Once a cat is done, can the milk come back?



## kitties (Aug 1, 2009)

Amber was done on Thursday after having her kittens 14 weeks ago.

We kept one of the kittens Tia.

I kept Tia away from her for a few days so she wasnt jumping all over her, but ive been out just come back and found her feeding!! I dont know if she can get any milk, if theres any there, or what. any ideas? 

They want to be together, ive obviously removed her, but could Ambers milk still be lingering? is she just suckling for comfort or would she be getting any milk? If theres milk there will it go away naturally? 

Amber sees vet again Tuesday for check up so can ask then but was just a bit concerned.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

It's just a comfort thing, they will suckle for ever if they are allowed to!

Liz


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

As Liz said it is a comfort thing. As to spayed girls producing milk, yes that is possible too. I have a friend with a couple of spayed girls who produce milk if there are kittens in the house.


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## kitties (Aug 1, 2009)

so shall i just let her, i keep stopping them and separating them at night but seems a shame.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I would just leave them, either the baby grows out of it, or Mum gets fed up adn lets them know.


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

My eldest cat Mogling, was spayed and continued to feed the two daughters I kept for years afterwards. I spoke to the vet who said not to worry and I would need to separate them for a considerable time for the milk to dry up and I never bothered. Eventually, it stopped. Not sure why. They still wash each other and snuggle up together but the younger two no longer feed from their Mum.

12 years later I let another cat have a litter and although she fed her kittens for a while after she was spayed she soon stopped letting them anywhere near her.

I guess all our furbabies are different.


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## kitties (Aug 1, 2009)

ah thats such a relief thankyou! i want them to be close so dont like keep separating them at their most intimate times!


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

I would say at that age that it is a comfort thing if the kittens suckle then the milk will take longer to dry up. The more they suckle the more milk produced. They should grow out of it but it could become a hard to break habit if allowed to carry on for too long. If she has alot of milk it is best to try and slowly prevent the suckling to prevent any problem with mastitis etc. rather than suddenly removing the kittens.
Clare


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Clare Ferris said:


> I would say at that age that it is a comfort thing if the kittens suckle then the milk will take longer to dry up. The more they suckle the more milk produced. They should grow out of it but it could become a hard to break habit if allowed to carry on for too long. If she has alot of milk it is best to try and slowly prevent the suckling to prevent any problem with mastitis etc. rather than suddenly removing the kittens.
> Clare


Once it has dried up it wont come back as she needs to get pregnant again for the hormones to trigger milk production which obviously wont happen now


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> Once it has dried up it wont come back as she needs to get pregnant again for the hormones to trigger milk production which obviously wont happen now


Sorry but thats not true, as I said above, a friend has 2 spayed girls who produce milk when kittens are in the house. A couple of mine will also produce milk when others have kittens even though they are not pregnant or have not recently had kittens.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Sorry but thats not true, as I said above, a friend has 2 spayed girls who produce milk when kittens are in the house. A couple of mine will also produce milk when others have kittens even though they are not pregnant or have not recently had kittens.


well that is very strange I have heard and seen it in entire dogs and this is normal for them to have false pregnancy but a cat? They ovulate differently and are not pack animals so I find this strange. I understand if they have kittens suckling every now and then they may carry on producing milk. It must be a hormonal trigger from the brain as it certainly cannot be triggered by the reproductive organs if they have been removed properly. Anyways I would imagine in a cat that is not going to be around other nursing mothers/kittens i.e in a breeders home then it should not be a problem once the milk has dried up. But you must try and gradually reduce the amount they suckle or it will take forever.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> well that is very strange I have heard and seen it in entire dogs and this is normal for them to have false pregnancy but a cat? They ovulate differently and are not pack animals so I find this strange. I understand if they have kittens suckling every now and then they may carry on producing milk. It must be a hormonal trigger from the brain as it certainly cannot be triggered by the reproductive organs if they have been removed properly.


Whatever triggers it, the fact remains that entire or spayed - indeed male or female - and yes there is reports of the former!!!!!!! - cats without kittens themselves, recent litters or pregnant can spontaneously produce milk. Its not all in a text book!



Clare Ferris said:


> But you must try and gradually reduce the amount they suckle or it will take forever.


Again not true, Mother and babies come to a natural weaning. To artificially stop that before either is ready is stressing inducing and unnecessary. The kitten the OP was referring is only 14 weeks old, so still in need of a bit of comfort sucking.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> Once it has dried up it wont come back as she needs to get pregnant again for the hormones to trigger milk production which obviously wont happen now


Strangley there are actually cases in humans where the milk comes in from a non pregnant and never been pregnant mum. This happens in adoption cases and I've actually read a text book about how to get your milk to come in whilst suckling a baby that isn't naturally yours. Apparently the act of suckling can cause you body to get confused and it does produce milk. When my mum adopted my sister she seriously considered it (and she was a nurse) as my sis was only 6 weeks old. The adoption agency had all the leaflets and books we needed to find out about it. This can also happen if your 'lover' suckles on you often and long enough. (hmmm, think this is a 'yuck' moment). So I am very sure that this can happen in a cat too.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

spid said:


> Strangley there are actually cases in humans where the milk comes in from a non pregnant and never been pregnant mum. This happens in adoption cases and I've actually read a text book about how to get your milk to come in whilst suckling a baby that isn't naturally yours. Apparently the act of suckling can cause you body to get confused and it does produce milk. When my mum adopted my sister she seriously considered it (and she was a nurse) as my sis was only 6 weeks old. The adoption agency had all the leaflets and books we needed to find out about it.


True.
I found this too.


> Dr Naomi Baumslag, noted legendary wet-nurse Judith Waterford whom: "In 1831, on her 81st birthday, she could still produce breast milk. In her prime she unfailingly produced two quarts [four pints] (2273 mL) of breast milk a day."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse#cite_note-guardian.co.uk-5


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

_Dr Naomi Baumslag, noted legendary wet-nurse Judith Waterford whom: "In 1831, on her 81st birthday, she could still produce breast milk. In her prime she unfailingly produced two quarts [four pints] (2273 mL) of breast milk a day." _

wow that's some feat - producing milk even past the menopuase!


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Sorry but thats not true, as I said above, a friend has 2 spayed girls who produce milk when kittens are in the house. A couple of mine will also produce milk when others have kittens even though they are not pregnant or have not recently had kittens.


 Are you sure they actually had milk because that is extremely strange indeed. I have heard of dogs commonly doing this it is part of the whole pack thing which allows them to nurse the young and help out with other mums babies.
Cats are completely different and certain hormones need to be produced to stimulate milk production. Some of these are triggered in the brain but normally ownly after a successful mating has taken place. If they have recently had kittens and then have others suckling then I suppose the milk could come bac but from a spayed cat, I have never heard of that before, seems almost impossible! love to know how it happens


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Whatever triggers it, the fact remains that entire or spayed - indeed male or female - and yes there is reports of the former!!!!!!! - cats without kittens themselves, recent litters or pregnant can spontaneously produce milk. Its not all in a text book!
> 
> Again not true, Mother and babies come to a natural weaning. To artificially stop that before either is ready is stressing inducing and unnecessary. The kitten the OP was referring is only 14 weeks old, so still in need of a bit of comfort sucking.


At that age the kitten would not be with the mother normally, is it not stressful to rehome a kitten that still fully suckling and is then rehomed with no mummy there to suckle on. I personnally believe in trying to reduce the behaviour otherwise they will carry on doing it, cats of 6 months or more still suckle if allowed, it then becomes a habit. All I was saying is that if she wants to get the milk to dry up then she needs to slowly discourage this behaviour. No vet will spay a cat with milk so if it carries on for too long then the cat could go out again and get pregant. My kitten stopped suckling completely at 10 weeks and now he has been rehomed he has not had any problems.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

spid said:


> Strangley there are actually cases in humans where the milk comes in from a non pregnant and never been pregnant mum. This happens in adoption cases and I've actually read a text book about how to get your milk to come in whilst suckling a baby that isn't naturally yours. Apparently the act of suckling can cause you body to get confused and it does produce milk. When my mum adopted my sister she seriously considered it (and she was a nurse) as my sis was only 6 weeks old. The adoption agency had all the leaflets and books we needed to find out about it. This can also happen if your 'lover' suckles on you often and long enough. (hmmm, think this is a 'yuck' moment). So I am very sure that this can happen in a cat too.


well you learn something new everyday...I was under the impression that hormones of preganacy lead to milk production but obviously it must be artifically produced then.
Can I ask then why some breeders often mate two cats around similar times incase one queen does not produce milk, surely they would just need to have another queen around if they can just produce milk whenever?


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> Can I ask then why some breeders often mate two cats around similar times incase one queen does not produce milk, surely they would just need to have another queen around if they can just produce milk whenever?


I don't think it is as simple as that. Sometimes it is difficult enough getting a lactating girl to let her own kittens suckle without latching them onto a non-pregnant queen. I also think that by the time there was enough stimulation to get hormones going and to get milk flowing in the non-pregnant queen then the kittens would all be dead anyway.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Certainly in humans the mind set has to be right for the body to produce milk outside of pregnany and child rearing. I would assume the same for any animal - if a cat doesn't want the kittens to suckle ( and many don't) they won't let it so no milk would be produced. Minnii has a 9 week old still having evening suckles and my 16 week (non related) kitten would love to join in - no way is Minnii having anything to do with this. So compliance must be necessary too.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> At that age the kitten would not be with the mother normally, is it not stressful to rehome a kitten that still fully suckling and is then rehomed with no mummy there to suckle on. I personnally believe in trying to reduce the behaviour otherwise they will carry on doing it, cats of 6 months or more still suckle if allowed, it then becomes a habit.


On what experience do you base that on I have never witnessed that being true. You get the odd adult that sneaks an odd suckle - usually a boy  but I wouldn't call that a habit by any means. Rehoming a kitten is one thing, and you will find they are not all ready to leave home at that age, but keeping Mum and baby who are together artificially apart when they know the other is still around is stressful to both and completely unnecessary to try and prematurely stop something that will stop naturally by itself anyway.



Clare Ferris said:


> All I was saying is that if she wants to get the milk to dry up then she needs to slowly discourage this behaviour. No vet will spay a cat with milk so if it carries on for too long then the cat could go out again and get pregant.


If you read the OPs post properly before answering you would see she has already been spayed. The thread title also gives it away.



Clare Ferris said:


> My kitten stopped suckling completely at 10 weeks and now he has been rehomed he has not had any problems.


Well when you have had a few more litters and kittens you will see they are all different, and develop at different rates. Some don't need Mum past a certain age, others do. Some Mums stop their babies sucking when they are weaned some don't. There is no hard and fast rule its whatever is best for each individual Mum and baby. If both enjoy a quick comfort suck when the kitten is fully weaned - so what -leave them to it.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> On what experience do you base that on I have never witnessed that being true. You get the odd adult that sneaks an odd suckle - usually a boy  but I wouldn't call that a habit by any means. Rehoming a kitten is one thing, and you will find they are not all ready to leave home at that age, but keeping Mum and baby who are together artificially apart when they know the other is still around is stressful to both and completely unnecessary to try and prematurely stop something that will stop naturally by itself anyway.
> 
> I never said keeping them apart but gradually increasing th time they spend apart. They need to be rehomed at some point so you try and get them accustomed to life without mum. If a baby was really stressed by this then I suppose you would need to re think things. Some mums cant wait to get away also. So keeping mum with kittens all the time is also stressful for her is it not? I am sure cats in the wild will leave their young at a certain age to fend for themselves.
> 
> ...


 never said there was a hard and fast rule and yes when I have had more litters I am sure there will be differences. At what age exactly do you rehome your kittens then, later than 14 weeks?


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> well you learn something new everyday...I was under the impression that hormones of preganacy lead to milk production but obviously it must be artifically produced then.
> Can I ask then why some breeders often mate two cats around similar times incase one queen does not produce milk, surely they would just need to have another queen around if they can just produce milk whenever?


Prolactin production is not dependent upon pregnancy, and once lactation has become established, which obviously will happen when feeding multiples, prolactin can continue to be produced and production stimulated even by an animal [or human] feeling emotionally maternal, or hearing the sounds of infants/neo nates. Lactation can sometimes be difficult to get started, but once successfully established can be continued or restarted with very little external stimulation. Even a human who has suckled for a prolonged time will be able to restimulate a milk supply relatively quickly and easily without a pregnancy [ . The body is a very clever machine. In a well socialised breeding environment, whether feral or planned, it's not unusual for Queens who are related or very close to share parenting and feeding. Obviously it's most likely to happen when the body is flooded with hormones, and in a mature Queen this can be a very frequent state, and it can take up to 6 mnths for hormone production to comepletely cease after spaying I think?


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## fluffosaur (Dec 10, 2009)

In humans the production of breast milk without a baby can be a sign of a hormone problem or a tumour on the pituatary gland. The doctor can run tests to check prolactin levels in the blood. It is possible to produce milk without either of these medical problems though too.

Kittens will feed for as long as mum will let them! The problem is that it's tiring and can be painful for mum (all those little teeth and claws!!) and usually around 8 weeks she's done with feeding. If you want to get her spayed then you should seperate them. I had to seperate the kittens I raised for the RSPCA from their mum because she needed to be spayed to prevent further litters (she was also in heat!!).


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffosaur said:


> If you want to get her spayed then you should seperate them.


Read the original post - cat has already been spayed. There is no need to separate them, its just comfort sucking, not feeding.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

fluffosaur said:


> In humans the production of breast milk without a baby can be a sign of a hormone problem or a tumour on the pituatary gland. The doctor can run tests to check prolactin levels in the blood. It is possible to produce milk without either of these medical problems though too.
> 
> Kittens will feed for as long as mum will let them! The problem is that it's tiring and can be painful for mum (all those little teeth and claws!!) and usually around 8 weeks she's done with feeding. If you want to get her spayed then you should seperate them. I had to seperate the kittens I raised for the RSPCA from their mum because she needed to be spayed to prevent further litters (she was also in heat!!).


Mums are quite capable of telling kittens when the feeding becomes uncomfortable, some Queens enjoy feeding their babies for longer than 8 weeks. So long as the kittens are weaned and are eating solids appropriately, and the Queen herself is in good health and condition, why should they be forced to stop?


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Leah100 said:


> Mums are quite capable of telling kittens when the feeding becomes uncomfortable, some Queens enjoy feeding their babies for longer than 8 weeks. So long as the kittens are weaned and are eating solids appropriately, and the Queen herself is in good health and condition, why should they be forced to stop?


kittens can be very persistent, mine wanted to feed of mum at 10 weeks or more but you could tell she was not happy eveytime she tried to lay down he was on her so she got up and moved and the same thing happened so it went on and on. I then decided to restrict the amount of access he had to mum he was not alone as I had another kitten alittle older for him to play with and she was happy having time away to get on with normal things. She did she him but it was restricted.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> kittens can be very persistent, mine wanted to feed of mum at 10 weeks or more but you could tell she was not happy eveytime she tried to lay down he was on her so she got up and moved and the same thing happened so it went on and on. I then decided to restrict the amount of access he had to mum he was not alone as I had another kitten alittle older for him to play with and she was happy having time away to get on with normal things. She did she him but it was restricted.


I still feel it's better for a mother cat to teach her kittens etiquette, it's part of socialising, but fair enough, you do what you think is right, but in my breed , many mother cats will continue to let kittens comfort suck and it is something that adds to the over all contentment of the group, and so long as everyone is happy and healthy I would not interfere.










This lot went to their new homes later that week.  They were 14 weeks old, fully weaned, eating for Britain, but they all still enjoyed the odd comfort suckle  Two actually stayed on an extra few weeks as their new owner was having home renovations and sensibly agreed not to collect them until there was no more disruption. They tailed off suckling by themselves, and I have regular updates and chats with their owner and know they have no innappropriate behaviours regarding suckling now .


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> At that age the kitten would not be with the mother normally, is it not stressful to rehome a kitten that still fully suckling and is then rehomed with no mummy there to suckle on. I personnally believe in trying to reduce the behaviour otherwise they will carry on doing it, cats of 6 months or more still suckle if allowed, it then becomes a habit.


I have owned and cats all my life, peds and mogs, and the only ones I have known have prolonged suckling issues were the rescued moglets that had been seperated from their mum too early and had some anxiety issues because of it. Suckling had been artificially curtailed and become an obssessive compulsion. None of my peds, kept with Mum til 13 or 14 weeks have ever had suckling issues. They matured naturally at their own pace.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Leah100 said:


> I have owned and cats all my life, peds and mogs, and the only ones I have known have prolonged suckling issues were the rescued moglets that had been seperated from their mum too early and had some anxiety issues because of it. Suckling had been artificially curtailed and become an obssessive compulsion. None of my peds, kept with Mum til 13 or 14 weeks have ever had suckling issues. They matured naturally at their own pace.


Rescued kittens can have issues so as can hand reared ones, yes socialisation is important but the reason I tried to reduce the suckling was also because he was 10 weeks old and would not eat much kitten food when he was feeding of mum. In order to try and wean him fully I needed to get him used to eating on his own. I am going to see my baby in his new home today and from the phone reports I have had now he is doing well and has put 0.5kg on in the two weeks they have had him. He seems to be eating better now with them. I did feel it was a prolonged weaning although when I have more litters I will gain more experience of what is normal and what is not in my breed. As I said he was not in distress, had he been I would have left him to it, but when it is stressing mum out then I felt I had to step in. She did not have full run of the house so could not easily escape to another room from him. I am sure in the wild mothers gradually reduce the amount of time spent with kittens is that not part of the weaning process?
I get the distinct impression that I am being made to feel guilty or that I have done something utterly disgusting? I dont appreciate being told how to raise MY kittens just as I dont tell you how to raise yours, sorry if that comes across abit rude but it is starting to annoy me and how many of the posters take great pride in disagreeing with everything I say. I get the impression that certain people are doing it for the sake of it. I guess the only answer is not to post anything anymore.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> I get the distinct impression that I am being made to feel guilty or that I have done something utterly disgusting? I dont appreciate being told how to raise MY kittens just as I dont tell you how to raise yours, sorry if that comes across abit rude but it is starting to annoy me and how many of the posters take great pride in disagreeing with everything I say. I get the impression that certain people are doing it for the sake of it. I guess the only answer is not to post anything anymore.


No one has said anything about the way have raised your kitten just disagreed with you when you stated incorrectly that a cat would have to be pregnant to lactate and then said to separate them otherwise the kitten would feed "forever".

I believe it was you that turned the issue round to how other people raised their kittens.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> Rescued kittens can have issues so as can hand reared ones, yes socialisation is important but the reason I tried to reduce the suckling was also because he was 10 weeks old and would not eat much kitten food when he was feeding of mum. In order to try and wean him fully I needed to get him used to eating on his own. I am going to see my baby in his new home today and from the phone reports I have had now he is doing well and has put 0.5kg on in the two weeks they have had him. He seems to be eating better now with them. I did feel it was a prolonged weaning although when I have more litters I will gain more experience of what is normal and what is not in my breed. As I said he was not in distress, had he been I would have left him to it, but when it is stressing mum out then I felt I had to step in. She did not have full run of the house so could not easily escape to another room from him. I am sure in the wild mothers gradually reduce the amount of time spent with kittens is that not part of the weaning process?
> I get the distinct impression that I am being made to feel guilty or that I have done something utterly disgusting? I dont appreciate being told how to raise MY kittens just as I dont tell you how to raise yours, sorry if that comes across abit rude but it is starting to annoy me and how many of the posters take great pride in disagreeing with everything I say. I get the impression that certain people are doing it for the sake of it. I guess the only answer is not to post anything anymore.


I'm actually quite shocked at your reply, you seem very aggressive  This was a general discussion, and my experience is as valid for inclusion as yours or anyone elses, it is a forum and we are all allowed to share in the topics. My posts were in reply to yours, but certainly not in an attack, I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I don't have to agree with everyone else, my experience is based purely upon that, my experience. I was NOT telling you how to raise your kittens, I was sharing how I raised MINE. No need for any sinister implications, if I had a point to make I would make it. My posts are based upon my cats and my choices, anything else you read into it is purely up to you.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I can't remember who made the point but it's interesting that 3 our of 4 of my mogs all comfort suck. One sucks his toe and kneads, one sucks his tummy and kneads and one just kneads anything she can! Non of my peds do this. My mogs came to be at 7.5 weeks & 2 @ 9 weeks. Peds between 13-15weeks.


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## kitties (Aug 1, 2009)

Wow not sure I should start this again, but hadn't realised I had so many responses lol!! I've just read through them all. 

Just to let you all know Mother and baby (now 20 months old) are doing fine, Tia stopped suckling a few weeks after this discussion natually of their (mother and babys) own accord, they are both very close still though, and wash each other daily and play together a lot.

Thanks so much to certain people who read exactly what I was saying cat had been done, and could 14 week old kitten (who I was keeping and wanting them to stay close) still suckle. :001_smile:


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Yeah I was reading through it, about to say my part when I was like "This is WAY more activity than normal and I don't recognize names" and then checked the date lol. But yeah, my kittens still suckle off their spayed mom maybe once a day which I assumed was comfort and I also assume they don't get nutrition from. Was an interesting read though.


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi Kitties, glad things went well and your cats are now a happy little team. 

Quite an interesting read there. 

And I miss some of those members, it reminds you how things change, even on a forum...


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## kitties (Aug 1, 2009)

hahaha. I was shocked when I saw the response!! So funny how things can kick off from a very innocent question, but had they read the first post wouldnt have needed to lol.

One thing I meant to say, I had rehomed the two boys together, and of them still suckles the other, on his neck!!!


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

kitties said:


> hahaha. I was shocked when I saw the response!! So funny how things can kick off from a very innocent question, but had they read the first post wouldnt have needed to lol.


Same old on forums unfortunately! People skim read, see red and then go off on one before giving the information time to process in their brains and there we have drama! You'll see it everywhere you go though, best just to brush it off, plus their would be no point in retaliation now as I don't think any of them are around to see it lol.


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## cat_gaga (Jan 6, 2010)

My mother has 2 of my male siamese kittens with her. The 18 month boy is constantly trying to suckle from the 2 year old boy- doesn't go down well I'm telling you. :tongue_smilie:


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

I was confused by the date as well :lol:

I remember Saikou as well, gave me really good advice when I first joined. Infact alot of names I dont see around anymore


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