# How big should female be, b4 mating?



## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I'm new and am posting because I have adopted a pregnant stray. I'm am thinking about the pros/cons of termination/spay vs. kittens. 

Some people have said a reason to terminate pregnancy is that she is quite young (9-10 months). She weighed 2.90kg in early pregnancy and a month later she weighs 3.3 kg. She is between 5 -7 weeks along. (The vet seems happy to operate). She has a little pot belly, but not huge.

Is she too small to go through birth safely? The vets didn't mention this issue when I took her for a general check, but other people have that she might have difficulty giving birth as she is young and small. I was thinking it could help me decide what to do.

Many thanks for reading. x


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I would have spayed her as soon as I got her. There are far too many kittens in shelters without homes, the last thing they need is more kittens. I have no idea why you have waited so long.

The sooner the better in my view or you will find it's too late and you have a litter of kittens on your hands, possibly with a big vet bill for a c-section.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

I've been looking after her for a month. I took her to vets a week after "meeting" her, and the vet wasn't sure if she was pregnant. She just said, come back in 3 weeks and we'll confirm (which was Friday). I also read it was better for her to be vaccinated first, before being operated. I had no way of knowing if she already has had jabs as she was abandoned and couldn't contact owners, so had to arrange it myself. She just had her second set of vaccinations on Friday.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I'd spay - it's also not a good idea to vaccinate whilst pregnant it can affect the kittens.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I would spay. She is very young and a litter can ruin her health.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for your replies. 

Yes I have read that the fact she is young is not good, but I was wondering whether her size is also a consideration? (She has gone from 2.90 to 3.3kg in the last 3 weeks).


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

The first time I took her to the vet I had just that day adopted her officially from her being a stray, I wasn't intending to get a cat, but I got attached to her and didn't want to put her in a sanctuary. The vet just said come back in 3 weeks for her second set of jabs, and that we would confirm pregnancy and go from there. So that's what I've done. So I don't have much idea about cats, and not prepared for this situation...


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Hard one. 

The reason she's put on weight is probably because of the babies. Çan't advice you sorry but if it were me, I would probably take the risk and let her give birth since the babies are already 5-7 weeks along. After that, spay her. Take note, kittens can be hard work, finding homes for them will also be hard and as everyone says, there's a possibility of c-sections and what-not. So go ahead only if you're ready for that


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I would be more concerned if the vaccinations can cause deformed kittens, i would speak to your vet about this.

Also knowing how far along would probably help you to decide, if you can see kittens move then its 7 weeks plus but only you can decide if you want to spay or take the risk.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Under 3kg is a very very skinny cat and not a good weight to be getting pregnant at.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for the heads up about her weight (3kg/ 6lbs), that's what I was curious about.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Op I just want to say a big well done for coming here and asking for opinions for the cats best interest as many come here and alls they think about is having cute fluffy kittens born its actually very refreshing that you are going to put the cats best interest at heart.

Id also spay and you can then concentrate on getting some condition into her.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your input which I have read with interest. 
& thnks Bsh for you kind words.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

spid said:


> Under 3kg is a very very skinny cat and not a good weight to be getting pregnant at.


And/or a very small cat.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

i also think it would be better to have her spayed but it is entirely your decision. well done for taking her in and caring for her. whatever decision you make please stick around as there is a wealth of knowledge amongst the members here who will help you all the way


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

I definitely will stick around! Thank you! :smile5:

I have booked the spaying/op for Thursday morning. (I was shaking!) I guess I can still back out, but at least something is arranged if I decide to go through with it. At this point I am worrying more about her than the unborn kittens. I wonder if she will know she has missed out on something? I wish I didnt have to put her through a horrible op, but she could also have complications, so either way, it wont be plain sailing.


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## dancemagicdance (Sep 27, 2012)

I agree that I would be getting her spayed asap! 

Last year I was in a similar position - I had had cats as family pets but never one of my own. We took in a stray pregnant cat and the vet said she could give birth any day so it was too late to spay. She was skin and bones and the vet estimated had been about 6 months old when she got pregnant so she was very small. It was very hard to watch how uncomfortable she was, she could hardly walk or move and could never get comfy but the worst part was that she was so small that the kittens pushed out the mucus plug a week before she gave birth(this is supposed to happen at most 48 hours before birth) and because of this was left with an infection and had to be spayed very soon after giving birth. After a week of me sleeping on the sofa next to her nesting box she managed to give birth just about ok(the first one was taking long enough that she almost had to go to the vet) but when they were out she didn't really know what to do, we had to burst the membraney sacs and rip umbilical cords for her because she was trying to walk around with a kitten dangling by the chord from her. The vet had said that we may have to handrear or topup feed the kittens because Pip was so small and skinny she might not be able to make any or enough milk.
After all that she was a very good mum but kittens are hard work for all involved! I was constantly covered in scratches from playful kittens, they need to learn how to use the litter tray so you may need to deal with accidents, worming is chaos! One of them was reluctant to wean so we had do make up an odd concoction of baby food, cat food, gelatin and goats milk to try to convince her to eat - at first she preferred to stand in it and walk all over the floor  
Then you need to factor in the costs of all the food that you'll need to buy, and the cat litter and litter tray cleaning... You won't make any money through selling the kittens, we worked out that between food, litter, Pip's vet treatment etc(not counting all the treats and toys that I'd bought them) we were at a loss of about £150 per kitten, and that's taking off the money that we charged for them!

I'm not trying to put you off, I appreciate that it's completely your decision, but having been through it, if I was put in that position again but with the possibility of spaying and avoiding it then I would absolutely choose that!



Edit - we cross posted  Glad to hear that you've chosen what's right for her! From Pip's reaction when she gave birth, she probably has no idea what's going on inside her, she probably just feels annoyed that she's uncomfortable and will be relieved to feel normal again!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

So glad she is booked in. Please don't change your mind. She really won't miss out - she won't understand she is pregnant - and it's not a difficult operation.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Dear dancemagicdance, thank you so much for your long and descriptive post, which I read with bated breath. I'm glad that they were all ok in the end! My lil' kitty is also small and skinny, bless her. I guess the hard part is that its so final, but if Im being honest with myself, Im not in the position to care for lots of kittens, so I guess I will have to go through with it. Most people seem to agree that its for the best x

Thanks also Oriental Slave for your encouragement! x


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Great you've got her spay booked. May be easier on you to tell the vet you don't want any details, no numbers or if the vaccination did any harm etc. 
Once spayed and on a decent diet she should pick up in no time.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Shoni said:


> I definitely will stick around! Thank you! :smile5:
> 
> I have booked the spaying/op for Thursday morning. (I was shaking!) I guess I can still back out, but at least something is arranged if I decide to go through with it. At this point I am worrying more about her than the unborn kittens.* I wonder if she will know she has missed out on something? *I wish I didnt have to put her through a horrible op, but she could also have complications, so either way, it wont be plain sailing.


No, she will not. I had a heavily pregnant stray cat spayed. She was very underweight. She recovered quickly and well from the operation and went on to find a good home. She certainly gave no sign of missing anything. :thumbsup:


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Ok thanks. Everyone supports me apart from my brother!! He thinks it bad of me to "kill the kittens". So was having slight second thoughts, but almost sure I will go ahead tomorrow morning. Looking at some other people's photos, I think it may be relatively early as she's not that big. So that's good?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

All i can say is recently i had a rescue girl Libby who came to me pregnant, i continued with the pregnancy basically heart ruled the head and i nearly lost Libby.
She did lose the whole litter due to problems so not only did we have this heartache of the kittens Libby for 3 days was so poorly i spent 24/7 just caring for her to pull her through.

I will never let a pregnant girl go through this again if not in perfect health plus you cant see any infection or damage to kittens before they are born.

Your head must rule in this case, she needs to be spayed for the girls own health.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Just to say I have a little girl who is only 2.9kg and I can't imagine her with kittens.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for your advice! It makes it easier knowing I could be preventing her going thru worse.
(The first photo is today, the second is how she was three weeks ago). x


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

shes a very pretty girl, wishing you good luck and i hope she is ok.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

She is a lovely little thing!
Don't let your brother upset you... easy to criticise when he is not going to be the one paying and caring for the cat/kittens!
This is not an easy decision to make, but this way, she will get to carry on her own kittenhood and live the life of a pampered pet right away just as she deserves.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Shoni said:


> Ok thanks. Everyone supports me apart from my brother!! He thinks it bad of me to "kill the kittens". So was having slight second thoughts, but almost sure I will go ahead tomorrow morning. Looking at some other people's photos, I think it may be relatively early as she's not that big. So that's good?


And is your brother going to pay for all the food they might eat? The litter they might pee on? The c-section she might need? Spend time socialising them? Look for genuinely good homes for them? Pay for worming, flea control and vaccinations?

I bet not.

PS bet he wouldn't be cleaning the litter trays, cleaning up after any accidents, washing the food bowls etc...


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

OS - so true!! x


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

She's in surgery at the mo. I feel so horrible...
:_(


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_please try not to feel bad, your doing your best for her xxxxx. Fingers crossed that she will be ok and soon back home with you._


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Shoni said:


> She's in surgery at the mo. I feel so horrible...
> :_(


Sending a hug ((())) you know you are doing the best for her.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks guys. Hope I dont regret it. I willl let you know how she is.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

I am so upset today I feel like Im losing it. She has come out the op. They said she hasnt woken up yet. I asked how advanceed the preg was, nurse said she was coming towards the end of the first part of the pregnancy, what ever that means. I hope she will forgive me for doing this to her...


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Of course she will forgive you. There's nothing to forgive. You did the right thing. Often the right decision isn't the easiest decision to make. She is going to be just fine.


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

Shoni, you have to understand that you've done the right thing for this little one.

CC told you the story about Libby, and how she nearly lost her during pregnancy - keep that in mind!! I'm Libby's new slave, and totally adore her, but it's only thanks to CC's experience, love and devotion to rescuing that I've got the chance to have her with me. I know CC played down a lot of her concerns so as not to worry or scare me, but I know that what she went through with Libby was heartbreaking. It didn't need to be; if only Libby's previous owners had cared enough to get her spayed in the first place - she's little more than a kitten herself, and tiny!

I'm sure your little girl will be absolutely fine; you have absolutely done the right thing for her, even though it might not feel like it at the moment!

Hugs xxxx


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

If she was coming to the end of the first part of the pregnancy I would say that's about 5 weeks along. Not viable. 

She will forgive you, as she has absolutely no idea what has gone on. She can now grow (the continued pregnancy would have stunted her) into the beautiful cat she was meant ot be. YOu have done the right thing.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Op if it helps im taking a pregnant cat for the spay on Tuesday,people across the road didn't spay their moggy I noticed their cat mating so I told them what I think they should do,so I offered to take the cat for them to make sure it gets done.The cat really wont have any idea whats going on.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

You've done the right thing, I hope she's home with you now and recovering well


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## notsure (Sep 2, 2011)

Shoni said:


> I hope she will forgive me for doing this to her...


There is nothing to forgive, what you have done is the very best thing you could have done for her. That aside, other than being uncomfortable from the op, she won't care one iota about the whole thing.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Im picking her up this morning. I cant help regretting it. Sorry everyone. & thanks you helped yesterday when I was going thru a really bad time


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

well done you for putting her first. you may feel awful at the moment but you will realise in time that you did the right thing for her. you would have felt so much worse if she had died trying to give birth etc. i think you are the first person on here in a long time who has taken on board what people have said and actually listened. i took a cat in who had been dumped with a litter and was pregnant again. she looked really big from day one (as if she must have been at least 6 weeks) and i for one couldn't spay her. in the end it turned out she had literally just got caught as i found her as it took 9 weeks and 1 day for her to give birth. the reason she looked so big was because her stomach was swollen with ulcers (caused through stress), and i'm afraid by me not having her spayed i added to her stress. she is happy now but will remain on medication for life. i cannot help feeling bad about not having her spayed earlier.
your cat can now get on with a new chapter in her life and enjoy life as she should. i'm really proud of you for finding the strength to go through without


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

I just got back with her. She started purring as soon as she saw us at the vets. Here is a photo of her tucking into her favourite (ham) 5 minutes after getting home just now. She seems ok. Exploring, and jumping up on things. There was only 3 kittens!!! I have some regret as I could've dealt with three, but I guess there was no way of knowing... but I feel better seeing that she's ok. I was going crazy yesterday...


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

She looks SO young. 

You may have been able to deal with three but could she? I just lost a kitten as it wasn't suckling and I had to hand rear (obviously something more going on inside) as she lost her fight after 4 days weighing 21g LESS than when she was born. If something had happened in birth could you have coped with a) losing her and b) hand rearing kittens of which they reckon only 25% survive? She is so young she could easily have rejected them and the damage it would have done to her body at such a young age is not worth thinking about. 

You did the right thing; she won't miss them at all.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

You did the right thing, especially since the kittens were only still in the first part of the pregnancy. She won't notice anything- even if she had the kittens, she would still have had to go for an operation (to get neutered). 

Now all the has to do is recover, eat lots and get fat!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

op do you have a picky of her wound id be interested to see the vets work as I had a cat who had a section and vet made a right mess of her,just wondered how tidy your girls wound is.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

I can't believe how well she's doing. Big appetite, done a poo already, running about like no one's business. She even seems to want to go outside (which I know she cant do). Only her meow is hoarse, bless.

Its strange, the day before her spay she was unusually cold and distant, but today she is so affectionate and is all over me. I was worried she wouldn't be the same with me and fear or distrust me after, but she is a very forgiving kitty. Anyway, she's so happy to be home! 

As Spid says, I could've have coped, but she may have had a hard time of it, as she's still a baby herself really. Now the pregnancy weight has gone, I can appreciate how small she really is.

I will try and get a pic of stitches later x 
Thanks again all x


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Glad it all went well and you have your loving little cat


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks. She's sleeping peacefully with me on the bed.
Here is her scar that was requested:
xx


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Sorry, now:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Shoni said:


> Sorry, now:


looks good ill see if I can find the pic of the mess the vet did to my girl one moment.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

needless to say I was blo*dy furious and no longer use this practice.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Goodness, it looks much bigger, bloodier and bruised. But perhaps in part coz C-section bigger op than termination with spay? My kitty looks like she has 3 stiches. (She's snoring and twitching at the mo). And her ears were quite hot before.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

In the interest of honesty, I should say that since Ive had her fixed, she has been fine and more affectionate than ever. But I have gone into a depression and am taking tranquilizers to get thru the day. I cant stop thinking about the kittens and how it will never be. Everyone says it was for her best, but I think she would have coped and she would have had an experience that I have taken away from her. Ive stopped speaking to my mum, because she was very vocal about that I should do it. And my relationship has suffered because Ive been so depressed and angry. I just want people to know it isn't back and white.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Sorry to hear you feel so low.

Try to look at it like this there is possibly 3 more rescue cats that may get chance of a loving home now.

Your cat wont be feeling like shes missed out on an experience she cant miss what shes never had.

These are your feelings only and I do hope in a few days you feel much brighter and can start to see how really you have done a good deed.For your cat and others around.

Have you thought about helping out rescues and fostering kittens maybe this cold lift your spirits


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Try to look at at like this there is possibly 3 more rescue cats that may get chance of a loving home now.
> 
> Have you thought about helping out rescues and fostering kittens maybe this cold lift your spirts


I wouldn't have asked for details. They don't help anything, she's been spayed, knowing that she was pregnant, how many and how far along is quite irrelevant, the vets really should have spared your feelings and not told you even if asked.

Agree with WLBSH, try looking at the bigger picture, you're special girl hasn't added to the moggie over population.

And fostering is something to consider, a way of giving back for those girls who aren't as fortunate as yours and have to go through with a litter.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Agree with all the above, especially that fostering or other work for a cat rescue might help.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Unfortunately there aren't 3 rescue kittens that will get a home, because the 3 people that could've taken them on, wont be getting cats, they would've done it to help me out (mum, sister and mother in law). What is true is that now I wont put them in that position when it isn't their problem.

I cant foster kittens because its not fair to my kitty as she would get less attention. But I guess I could help out in rescue a rescue centre , maybe when I'm feeling up to it.

Thanks .


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Shelters always need volunteers, and it can be just a few hours a week if that's all you can manage.

How's your girl doing today? And you as well? I do hope you can overcome the ill feelings, and that things are ok with your mum and partner.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I know how you are feeling and its not nice but you will get over thinking of cute kittens born.

I didnt tell Muffin exactly what was happening to Libby the rescue girl as i didnt want to worry her, as far as she knew she was going to be the loving home for Libby.

What i experienced was awful and in hindsight i would have spayed but i didnt, i let Libby go through her pregnancy.

At 7/8 weeks pregnant she was very poorly, lost so much weight despite eating, i spent 48 hours day and night sat holding her whilst i have a fluid drip in her preying she would make it, yes she very nearly died.

Labour started 3 i couldnt revive despite best efforts, one i did manage to revive but wish i hadnt, the poor little mite had something wrong with it, black dead tissue was coming out its mouth, the kitten died an hour later.

What Libby and myself went through i will never forget and yes i blame myself, i could have easily had her spayed and she wouldnt have been through all this.

Basically what i am saying is even if kittens was born there are no guarantees any of the kittens would still be alive, isnt it best for the girl to have been spayed rather than watch her babies die, which is very traumatic for a cat.

You did the best for this cat, she will now grow to be a beautiful healthy girl so please dont be so hard on yourself, just cuddle her and know you have potentially saved her as the result could have been devastating.


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## Shoni (Jun 25, 2013)

Hi all, 

Sorry for the delay, I didn't to post until I was feeling more positive. Sorry my earlier freak out last week (I was kinda' losing it for a while...) it really was a difficult few days emotionally, but we are over the worst. She has bounced back incredibly well and I have come to terms with the decision I made. There may always be a little regret, but I think I am kind of at peace with it now, and under the circumstances, it was probably the right decision. 

Thanks for your supportive words throughout. x

P.S. Also, back to normal now with mum & boyf, & only took tranquilizers for 3 days after, (they actually really helped!)


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

so glad to hear you are feeling better now. you really did do the best thing possible for your girl. believe me, you are in a small minority of people who come on here asking for advice and actually listen to it. you have done a fantastic job so now you can relax and enjoy the rest of your lives together. your cat showed you how grateful she was by loving you so much. enjoy her now and a big thumbs up to you:thumbup:. we may not know you personally on here, but we are all very proud of you


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

cats galore said:


> so glad to hear you are feeling better now. you really did do the best thing possible for your girl. believe me, you are in a small minority of people who come on here asking for advice and actually listen to it. you have done a fantastic job so now you can relax and enjoy the rest of your lives together. your cat showed you how grateful she was by loving you so much. enjoy her now and a big thumbs up to you:thumbup:. we may not know you personally on here, but we are all very proud of you


Absolutely concur with the above - you did a very brave thing and made the right choice for your cat, may you have many happy years together x


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Well done on your brave decision. You did the right thing.


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