# Sorry mods but the discussion needs to be had



## rottiepointerhouse

I have no doubt you will close this but please can I ask how and where we can have this discussion, not about other members or why they have left, but we do need to talk about the undercurrents that are going on at the moment. 

I had typed out a reply on the now closed thread urging people to put their health first and walk away from squabbles than drag them down into negativity. Healthy and lively debate even heated debate is fine but not when these festering sores develop that could be detrimental to member's health.

If every thread on the subject gets closed then how do we move forwards?


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## O2.0

I agree that there are things that need to be discussed, I don't know how productive that discussion can be though. And right now, that's all I'm going to say about that....
Not trying to be cryptic, just really don't want to get in to it again and revisit past BS. 

Perhaps the mods need to sit down and talk among themselves, and maybe just let us know that they are discussing things.


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## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> I agree that there are things that need to be discussed, I don't know how productive that discussion can be though. And right now, that's all I'm going to say about that....
> Not trying to be cryptic, just really don't want to get in to it again and revisit past BS.
> 
> Perhaps the mods need to sit down and talk among themselves, and maybe just let us know that they are discussing things.


Past BS? But you only joined in May


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## rottiepointerhouse

O2.0 said:


> I agree that there are things that need to be discussed, I don't know how productive that discussion can be though. And right now, that's all I'm going to say about that....
> Not trying to be cryptic, just really don't want to get in to it again and revisit past BS.
> 
> Perhaps the mods need to sit down and talk among themselves, and maybe just let us know that they are discussing things.


That is exactly what I mean. I'm sure we've all got some past BS with other members, some where we might still feel aggrieved and some where we might with the reflection of time have decided we could have handled things better. Somehow we all have to work out for ourselves how we handle those situations and move forward. Most of us manage it - I've taken a few weeks away from the forum altogether in the past and would do again if I felt I was letting myself go down a negative spiral that was draining my health and probably upsetting other members who get caught in the cross fire too.


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## havoc

Have I missed some drama - again. I always miss out.


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## SusieRainbow

I can assure that these undercurrents are being discussed at length, we realise the frustration caused by closed threads. But can you consider our frustration, whatever we say to attempt mediation gets shouted down by someone ! There are some very strong minded personalities contributing to these threads who are all convinced that their views are the right ones.
It really is a case of damned if we do, damned if we don't. 
To be absolutely honest I, for one, after the emotional roller coaster I've been on this week, am finding it hard to give everyone what they want IRL and here. 
Please bear with us and let us try to find a solution where we can all move forward. Also please remember that this is pet forum , the fact is that political debates are taking up far more moderating energy and time than the actual pet subforums - do you feel that's right ?


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## ForestWomble

You mods do a fantastic job and considering what you have gone through this last week, you are still, along with the others, moderating and I for one say Thank you. However, please take some much needed time out if you need to, I for one would hate it if you made yourself ill, and that goes for all the mods.
You all do a great job, but please look after yourselves too.

Re the politics, maybe we need a (temporary) ban on such threads? Afterall that is where a lot of the troubles are coming from, and like you say this is a pet forum. I know that they are in general but it's leaking into other areas.


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## rottiepointerhouse

SusieRainbow said:


> I can assure that these undercurrents are being discussed at length, we realise the frustration caused by closed threads. But can you consider our frustration, whatever we say to attempt mediation gets shouted down by someone ! There are some very strong minded personalities contributing to these threads who are all convinced that their views are the right ones.
> It really is a case of damned if we do, damned if we don't.
> To be absolutely honest I, for one, after the emotional roller coaster I've been on this week, am finding it hard to give everyone what they want IRL and here.
> Please bear with us and let us try to find a solution where we can all move forward. Also please remember that this is pet forum , the fact is that political debates are taking up far more moderating energy and time than the actual pet subforums - do you feel that's right ?


Thank you for replying, I hope we all appreciate how hard it is to keep the peace and appreciate the unpaid time and work you all contribute. I'm sure we all think we are right and everyone else is wrong at times but hopefully with the reflection of time we can agree to disagree and come to a compromise. We should all be adult enough to accept that if we really can't get on with another member we stop engaging with them altogether. As far as the political threads go its difficult, if we had a section of the forum separate for political discussions that was not moderated there could be some pretty outrageous and possibly discriminatory comments made but on the other hand I understand they take up too much time to moderate. Unless you can appoint a moderator just to deal with that section who isn't too bothered about overseeing the pet forums???


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## havoc

SusieRainbow said:


> Also please remember that this is pet forum , the fact is that political debates are taking up far more moderating energy and time than the actual pet subforums - do you feel that's right ?


Have to say it surprised me when I first joined that there was so much non animal related stuff. Maybe it's time to ditch all non pet related subsections.


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## rottiepointerhouse

havoc said:


> Have to say it surprised me when I first joined that there was so much non animal related stuff. Maybe it's time to ditch all non pet related subsections.


I think we would lose a heck of a lot of members if we did that which would be a shame given dwindling numbers already.


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## havoc

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I think we would lose a heck of a lot of members if we did that which would be a shame given dwindling numbers already.


Are they dwindling? It isn't something I particularly take notice of. I've seen quite a few new members down the board in the cat section. Most internet forums do have a natural life and this one has been going a very long time - it's done better than most.


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## SusieRainbow

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Thank you for replying, I hope we all appreciate how hard it is to keep the peace and appreciate the unpaid time and work you all contribute. I'm sure we all think we are right and everyone else is wrong at times but hopefully with the reflection of time we can agree to disagree and come to a compromise. We should all be adult enough to accept that if we really can't get on with another member we stop engaging with them altogether. As far as the political threads go its difficult, if we had a section of the forum separate for political discussions that was not moderated there could be some pretty outrageous and possibly discriminatory comments made but on the other hand I understand they take up too much time to moderate. Unless you can appoint a moderator just to deal with that section who isn't too bothered about overseeing the pet forums???


I would like to see a separate political forum for established members only - if we really have to have a political section at all ! We have asked Mark ( forum owner ) for this.

as for having a moderator just for the political forum I can't see any of us volunteering for that , I think we've all joined the forum for the sake of promoting animal welfare which is the purpose of the forum overall.


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## Zaros

What about the deliberate theft of intellectual property?


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## O2.0

I don't know that it's a "politics" thread issue. 
@rottiepointerhouse has had the vegan/vegetarian ideas thread up for ages and there is ZERO contention on that thread (holding my breath now in case anyone gets any ideas). Those who want to participate on there do, those who don't totally ignore it. Which works beautifully.
So it's not like we can't discuss divisive things as adults, we can.


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## SusieRainbow

O2.0 said:


> I don't know that it's a "politics" thread issue.
> @rottiepointerhouse has had the vegan/vegetarian ideas thread up for ages and there is ZERO contention on that thread (holding my breath now in case anyone gets any ideas). Those who want to participate on there do, those who don't totally ignore it. Which works beautifully.
> So it's not like we can't discuss divisive things as adults, we can.


Yes, I know you can thank goodness ! Couldn't be doing with everyone at loggerheads there ! 
No, I do think politics is the issue here.


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## Rafa

My Mother always used to say "never discuss politics, sport or religion. It will always end in a row".


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## 3dogs2cats

SusieRainbow said:


> I would like to see a separate political forum for established members only - if we really have to have a political section at all ! We have asked Mark ( forum owner ) for this.
> 
> as for having a moderator just for the political forum I can't see any of us volunteering for that , I think we've all joined the forum for the sake of promoting animal welfare which is the purpose of the forum overall.


A political sub forum would work I think. The political threads are always busy and are on the whole very interesting, it would be a shame to ban them and personally I think due to the nature of politics unworkable, every thread on the environment, NHS, etc will have someone complaining it is political and should be shut down!



O2.0 said:


> I don't know that it's a "politics" thread issue.
> @rottiepointerhouse has had the vegan/vegetarian ideas thread up for ages and there is ZERO contention on that thread (holding my breath now in case anyone gets any ideas). Those who want to participate on there do, those who don't totally ignore it. Which works beautifully.
> So it's not like we can't discuss divisive things as adults, we can.


I think that is because it is sticky thread, people don`t always look at stickies or see them differently in some way, posts is general are seen as free for anyone to join. Yes I do know anyone can still post on sticky threads but often new contributors will start with " can I join in" as if some how you need to make it know you wish to join and be accepted. The Vegan threads in general chat do get contentious however.


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## SusieRainbow

Rafa said:


> My Mother always used to say "never discuss politics, sport or religion. It will always end in a row".


What a wise woman !Come to think of it my dad was of the same mind.


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## O2.0

Zaros said:


> What about the deliberate theft of intellectual property?


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## kimthecat

Hang about !
The two political threads have run pretty well , a lot better than before . There's no need to have a separate forum . 

The reason SWC left is not the content of the thread but the one person here who mocks and bullies whenever you disagree with him or you stand up to him . Just one person!
Deleteing threads or posts or locking threads doesn't help because it doesn't change the behaviour of that person who will continue to do this because he can and having a mental health issue is no excuse to upset and intimidate other members who are fragile or not.

Unfortunately , it's seen as petty to point out his behaviour . Its dismissed as personal but perhaps the Mods could should recollect how many members that one person upset over time .

This is about bullying , it can happen in any thread .


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## O2.0

3dogs2cats said:


> The Vegan threads in general chat do get contentious however.


They get heated, sure, but I don't see anyone making personal insults, calling intelligence in to question, accusing members of things completely unrelated to the topic...
And when it's a thread about "I want to become vegan, how do I go about it" or similar, those who aren't interested in becoming vegan stay off the thread (for the most part).

I think controversial topics make for interesting forum life. And personally, I like having my beliefs challenged to see how dearly I hold them, and yes, I have had my mind changed by people's passionate and informative posts. This is a wonderful thing about forums.

Honestly, the vegan threads remind me a little bit of the training threads of years ago when the toothed one was all the rage. I have definitely grown and matured, and learned SO much from those heated discussions. And boy, they would get heated! But in the end I felt like a lot of good came out of those discussions.


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## rottiepointerhouse

SusieRainbow said:


> I would like to see a separate political forum for established members only - if we really have to have a political section at all ! We have asked Mark ( forum owner ) for this.
> 
> as for having a moderator just for the political forum I can't see any of us volunteering for that , I think we've all joined the forum for the sake of promoting animal welfare which is the purpose of the forum overall.


 No I didn't really expect any of the existing mods to do it but thought more along the lines of recruiting a mod specifically to oversee political threads. I guess another problem would be defining what is political and what isn't.


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## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> Hang about !
> The two political threads have run pretty well , a lot better than before . There's no need to have a separate forum .
> 
> The reason SWC left is not the content of the thread but the one person here who mocks and bullies whenever you disagree with him or you stand up to him . Just one person!
> Deleteing threads or posts or locking threads doesn't help because it doesn't change the behaviour of that person who will continue to do this because he can and having a mental health issue is no excuse to upset and intimidate other members who are fragile or not. .


Not sure I can agree with your first statement.
We are getting report after report about these threads, posters being offended, feeling harrassed and bullied etc. That's not running well in my eyes.


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## rottiepointerhouse

SusieRainbow said:


> Not sure I can agree with your first statement.
> We are getting report after report about these threads, posters being offended, feeling harrassed and bullied etc. That's not running well in my eyes.


Sorry to mention the "B" word but would you say its mainly that topic that is generating the disquiet?


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## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> Not sure I can agree with your first statement.
> We are getting report after report about these threads, posters being offended, feeling harrassed and bullied etc. That's not running well in my eyes.


Ok, thank you for letting me know. I just felt they didnt seem as bad as the original brexit ones which were pretty bad, The recent Boris Johnson one went well perhaps because we all agreed he is an ass.
( at least i thought it did ) 
Erm, Im happy to go along with any suggestions about political threads , i wouldnt like to see them banned but I think it is up to those Modding to decide as they have to deal with i t.


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## lullabydream

kimthecat said:


> Hang about !
> The two political threads have run pretty well , a lot better than before . There's no need to have a separate forum .
> 
> The reason SWC left is not the content of the thread but the one person here who mocks and bullies whenever you disagree with him or you stand up to him . Just one person!
> Deleteing threads or posts or locking threads doesn't help because it doesn't change the behaviour of that person who will continue to do this because he can and having a mental health issue is no excuse to upset and intimidate other members who are fragile or not.
> 
> Unfortunately , it's seen as petty to point out his behaviour . Its dismissed as personal but perhaps the Mods could should recollect how many members that one person upset over time .
> 
> This is about bullying , it can happen in any thread .


I think there was also another thread that made his mind up .One that seemed to allude to him by extrapolating what was said that he had caused a member to be banned. He would have been gutted it wouldn't have been his intention

SWC wouldn't find this funny and would more than likely feel like maybe in popularity stakes this could lead to more bullying due to this so hence he flounced and hence he left. I say this from his previous posts he came across as nothing but caring and once when he posted a video which wasn't funny to us dog owners and this was pointed out he immediately got the thread removes not to cause any discord.


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## Elles

I don’t know why people keep doing it. They must know by now that they’re upsetting other members unnecessarily, some posts come across almost as trolling. I did notice that one member has changed their way of posting in those threads though and I enjoy reading their point of view now, when before I thought theirs got close to the grain too. I have one poster on ignore.


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## O2.0

You know, referencing the dog training thing, ignore is a very useful tool, and probably not employed enough.
But some things can't and shouldn't be ignored and need to be addressed. I just replied to a thread where the poster was being humped and bitten and had been told to ignore the behavior. Uh, sorry, no. Some things need to be addressed and stopped.

I'm all for ignoring undesirable behavior and not giving attention to attention seeking behavior, but don't tell me to ignore behavior that deliberately and knowingly causes distress, and top it off by telling me I'm the one with the problem because I'm not ignoring it.

And this is the problem with telling people to put posters on ignore.
Yes, it is a fantastic tool, and you don't even have to use the forum function, you can just skip over those posts. But when someone is clearly hurt, very understandably so, and the only response is "ignore it" that can feel incredibly dismissive and uncaring.

Sure we should all be adults and not need hand holding to navigate a forum, but we're also all human and we're going to have days where we're more delicate than others.


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## JANICE199

SusieRainbow said:


> Not sure I can agree with your first statement.
> We are getting report after report about these threads, posters being offended, feeling harrassed and bullied etc. That's not running well in my eyes.


*Usually that's when someone feels they are not winning in a debate.*


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## bordie

havoc said:


> Have I missed some drama - again. I always miss out.


no just the bored old moaners at it


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## kimthecat

.


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## bordie

havoc said:


> Have I missed some drama - again. I always miss out.


no just the boring old moaners at it


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## kimthecat

I can see the Mods being a tad busier this weekend


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## Calvine

SusieRainbow said:


> There are some very strong minded personalities


AKA bullies, mayhap?


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## JANICE199

*For anyone who doesn't get offended at bad language, look up Johnathan Pie video, " Boris and The Burka". He sums this subject up really well*


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## Cleo38

I really don't get this, of course we shouldn't tolerate bullying (although that word is so often misused online now that I am loathe to use it!), or people being deliberately offensive but ... if we are getting wound up, frustrated, upset or whatever then WALK AWAY!!!

I don't understand why people need to report to mods all the time, maybe I am missing something but we are adults & unless the rules have been broken then I don't understand why this is difficult


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## Calvine

havoc said:


> Maybe it's time to ditch all non pet related subsections.


I tend to agree with you, @havoc . . . there are some posters who only appear to post on the political threads. And a small group of them forms a ''clique'' and (as far as I can see) bullies a couple of posters whose opinions differ. I try to stay clear of them and have most of the ''clique'' on ignore.


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## Sacrechat

havoc said:


> Have I missed some drama - again. I always miss out.


I think I have too, I don't know what's going on and who's SWC?


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## JANICE199

Calvine said:


> I tend to agree with you, @havoc . . . there are some posters who only appear to post on the political threads. And a small group of them forms a ''clique'' and (as far as I can see) bullies a couple of posters whose opinions differ. I try to stay clear of them and have most of the ''clique'' on ignore.


*I'm probably one of those members, i prefer general chat. It isn't just general chat that gets nasty on here. The dog and cat sections can get really nasty, *


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## Calvine

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I think we would lose a heck of a lot of members if we did that which would be a shame given dwindling numbers already.


Not telling anyone what they should be doing (am admin on another forum, so know how it is) . . . but I sometimes cringe when a first-time PF poster appears with what to them is a real and genuine (pet related) problem and is confronted with what can only be describe as ''gang warfare''. It happened to me when I first joined and posted on the dog forum re. a problem which was not mine, but on behalf of an elderly neighbour with no internet access. Most of the people who were incredibly rude are no longer around and I thought twice about hanging around.


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## 3dogs2cats

O2.0 said:


> They get heated, sure, but I don't see anyone making personal insults, calling intelligence in to question, accusing members of things completely unrelated to the topic...
> .


 See I knew I`d missed something! I hadn`t read anything like the above on the thread that I`m guessing this thread is about, but I am good at skim reading past anything that I consider silly point scoring and more about personal issues with members than about the thread. I genuinely enjoy reading the political threads I used to love political debating with my dad and father in law, I`m too slow at typing and not able to think of the right words to take part in online debates but enjoy reading other peoples opinions.


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## O2.0

3dogs2cats said:


> See I knew I`d missed something! I hadn`t read anything like the above on the thread that I`m guessing this thread is about, but I am good at skim reading past anything that I consider silly point scoring and more about personal issues with members than about the thread. I genuinely enjoy reading the political threads I used to love political debating with my dad and father in law, I`m too slow at typing and not able to think of the right words to take part in online debates but enjoy reading other peoples opinions.


I wasn't referencing any particular thread. Just commenting based on my observations on some threads 

BTW mods, thank you for leaving this open - for now, and thank you members for trying to keep the conversation productive


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## stuaz

Sacremist said:


> I think I have too, I don't know what's going on and who's SWC?


I would take a guess it's Stockwellcat who has left the forum (again...).

Though we aren't suppose to talk about other members, closed threads so I can't say more!:Locktopic


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## havoc

O2.0 said:


> I think controversial topics make for interesting forum life.


So they should but the world is getting ever more full of snowflakes who start to melt at the mere suggestion that everyone doesn't agree with them. To them a different viewpoint is automatically bullying.


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## Jonescat

I think it is up to us as well as the mods. Like many others I have no idea what is going on today, and am not sure what the undercurrents are ( and don't explain!). I have seen some behaviour over time that would not be acceptable if we were face-to-face - and I would call it out if I was in person. On here, I tend to hum and ha, and reread the thread to make sure I have understood it all, and by the time I have made my mind up the thread is usually over, and that means that the person on the receiving end doesn't know I thought they had been given a hard time. So perhaps we should call it when we see it, and not leave it all to the mods. 

I haven't joined in much on the Brexit threads (and believe me I have strong opinions there) because I thought there was no chance of a sensible discussion. I think it should be discussed because it is the most important political change in the UK this century - whatever side you are on!


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## O2.0

havoc said:


> So they should but the world is getting ever more full of snowflakes who start to melt at the mere suggestion that everyone doesn't agree with them. To them a different viewpoint is automatically bullying.


This isn't a snowflake issue or people getting their panties in a wad because someone disagreed....


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## Blackadder

O2.0 said:


> BTW mods, thank you for leaving this open - for now, and thank you members for trying to keep the conversation productive


Ditto! I think "clear the air" talks are needed if this board is to flourish.


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## Rafa

havoc said:


> So they should but the world is getting ever more full of snowflakes who start to melt at the mere suggestion that everyone doesn't agree with them. To them a different viewpoint is automatically bullying.


In this case, I don't believe it was one poster getting upset because another didn't agree and said so, it was how it was said.

One poster in particular can become very scathing and downright nasty when taking part in a 'discussion' and can be hurtful.


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## JANICE199

*Some people need to stay away from certain topics. They jump in, ans as soon as someone says something they don't agree with they go moaning to the mods.*


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## havoc

Rafa said:


> In this case, I don't believe it was one poster getting upset because another didn't agree and said so, it was how it was said.


That may be the case but it's not real - it's just some internet persona. Whatever anyone posts on here they aren't someone who actually matters in the lives of other members. I'm now fully expecting an avalanche of posts telling me some sensitive souls can't separate this from reality but it's a forum not a therapy group.


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## delca1

I used to be on here so much but only pop in on occasions now. Nothing seems to have changed in my eyes, there always were comments that were un-necessarily rude leading to arguments, private messages sent that were horrible and threads being closed. How ever hard the mods work it will happen. It would be a shame to ban any non pet related discussions - I reckon the bullies would just carry on in other threads.


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## Zaros

havoc said:


> That may be the case but it's not real - it's just some internet persona. Whatever anyone posts on here they aren't someone who actually matters in the lives of other members. I'm now fully expecting an avalanche of posts telling me some sensitive souls can't separate this from reality but it's a forum not a therapy group.


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## MollySmith

Who’d be a mod! I know when I’m feeling troubled then this isn’t the place to be and it’s impossible to agree all the time especially on politics. It’s so hard to get inflections missed in speech so it’s better to walk away or beg to differ like adults or simple don’t get involved. I left all Brexit chat as it was a flood of badly designed memes and it wasn’t educational or constructive but upsetting to read. We speak on here about saving the planet and communities and yet so many are seemingly glued to PF debating the same stuff. I’ve been told lucky I have time to shop local - go figure!! Go out, plant something, cook a meal, bake a cake but most of all don’t look for the answers here!


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## O2.0

Jonescat said:


> I have seen some behaviour over time that would not be acceptable if we were face-to-face - and I would call it out if I was in person.


This is a good litmus test isn't it? If it's not okay in person, it shouldn't be okay online either.

And yup, I also agree that we members have a responsibility to hold ourselves accountable and call out unacceptable behavior for what it is. It's tricky though, one not everyone is comfortable doing that, either in person or on-line, but two, speaking of snowflakes, too many people are fine dishing it out, but as soon as you call them on it, they play the woe-is-me victim card. Fun times for the mods...


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## rottiepointerhouse

I'm so glad to get back and see this is still open 



O2.0 said:


> You know, referencing the dog training thing, ignore is a very useful tool, and probably not employed enough.
> But some things can't and shouldn't be ignored and need to be addressed. I just replied to a thread where the poster was being humped and bitten and had been told to ignore the behavior. Uh, sorry, no. Some things need to be addressed and stopped.
> 
> I'm all for ignoring undesirable behavior and not giving attention to attention seeking behavior, but don't tell me to ignore behavior that deliberately and knowingly causes distress, and top it off by telling me I'm the one with the problem because I'm not ignoring it.
> 
> And this is the problem with telling people to put posters on ignore.
> Yes, it is a fantastic tool, and you don't even have to use the forum function, you can just skip over those posts. But when someone is clearly hurt, very understandably so, and the only response is "ignore it" that can feel incredibly dismissive and uncaring.
> 
> Sure we should all be adults and not need hand holding to navigate a forum, but we're also all human and we're going to have days where we're more delicate than others.


I agree we all have days when we are more delicate or sensitive than others and also days when we are more reactive than others which is why it can be good to take a break or if its something really upsetting then talk it over with a mod. I've not had to do that other than report the occasional post in the past (usually abusive posts not directed at anyone or those asking for money) so I'd be really interested to know how it works. If you feel someone is being deliberately hurtful or bullying and you report it to a mod do you get to chat it over with them or is that the end of it?



Jonescat said:


> I think it is up to us as well as the mods. Like many others I have no idea what is going on today, and am not sure what the undercurrents are ( and don't explain!). I have seen some behaviour over time that would not be acceptable if we were face-to-face - and I would call it out if I was in person. On here, I tend to hum and ha, and reread the thread to make sure I have understood it all, and by the time I have made my mind up the thread is usually over, and that means that the person on the receiving end doesn't know I thought they had been given a hard time. So perhaps we should call it when we see it, and not leave it all to the mods.
> 
> I haven't joined in much on the Brexit threads (and believe me I have strong opinions there) because I thought there was no chance of a sensible discussion. I think it should be discussed because it is the most important political change in the UK this century - whatever side you are on!


I've spoken out on quite a few threads where I feel someone is being treated unfairly/harshly - usually in dog chat but occasionally in here too. Trouble is you can't win because you can then get others jumping on you asking you when you became the forum police etc so its a fine line to tread but perhaps we should also stand up for each other a bit more.


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## O2.0

JANICE199 said:


> *Some people need to stay away from certain topics. They jump in, ans as soon as someone says something they don't agree with they go moaning to the mods.*


I think the mods deserve some credit here. I'm pretty sure they can tell the difference between a petty whine at being disagreed with and a real issue.

Look, there's me disagreeing with what you posted  Report me!


----------



## SusieRainbow

rottiepointerhouse said:


> If you feel someone is being deliberately hurtful or bullying and you report it to a mod do you get to chat it over with them or is that the end of it?


I'd like to think that if there was a genuine issue you would get a sympathetic response and appropriate action taken. That's the aim anyway !


----------



## Calvine

JANICE199 said:


> . The dog and cat sections can get really nasty,


There are certain topics which bring out the worst in certain members: indoor cats v. outdoor cats; wet feeding v. dry; cat allowed to get pregnant ''by accident''. Many of these will invariably 'end in tears' and get closed, and often a potential new member with something to contribute decides it's not worth hanging around to be insulted.


----------



## Calvine

O2.0 said:


> This isn't a snowflake issue or people getting their panties in a wad because someone disagreed....


No, sometimes it is bullying and scaring off potential new members. I have actually been asked ''if I could read'' by someone whose English is clearly not up to scratch. I did not retaliate by telling them so, or correcting their English. Another point I would raise is that I feel all personal disagreements (I mean when they are off-topic) should be carried on by PM if necessary. No, I do not consider myself a snowflake, and I have only ever ''reported'' the Chinese spam and an obvious troll.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Banning topics smacks of censorship.
We are adults for pit sake !!!! If a topic is not to our taste please refrain from reading and contributing. 

If you do - don’t run to Mods to spit your dummy someone did not agree with you!
Personal insults should be removed and attacks at hominem too, general comments should be left.

So we should ban anything that causes heat?

Question apart - can anyone join the forum again under new username and only from the posts we could guess who it is - we as pf members, mods possibly know? 
I am tired from guessing who was who in former incarnations. 
At least could the re- joiners in new name refer to the old one in obvious way?
It really creates a valley of shadows and undercurrents.


----------



## Arnie83

I never think personal attacks are a good idea, and if they start getting abusive then the mods should certainly step in and - in my view - suspend the perpetrator rather than close the thread, which 'punishes' everyone for the misdemeanours of the very very few.

I think we would do well (in life, never mind PF!) to vigorously dispute false 'facts' while politely agreeing to disagree when something is a matter of opinion. And I think we should expect both of those to happen, and not get all huffy when we are told we've got a fact wrong.

That all sounds terribly pompous, but to put it simply, "You're wrong (because)" is fine. "You're an idiot" isn't.


----------



## StormyThai

cheekyscrip said:


> can anyone join the forum again under new username


If they requested to leave then anyone is free to rejoin, if the account was banned then no they breaking the rules by making a new account.

We will no longer be deleting accounts due to this reason so anyone that requests their account deleted will be put on a voluntary ban so if they choose to come back their account is still here.


----------



## KittenKong

Jonescat said:


> I think it is up to us as well as the mods. Like many others I have no idea what is going on today, and am not sure what the undercurrents are ( and don't explain!). I have seen some behaviour over time that would not be acceptable if we were face-to-face - and I would call it out if I was in person. On here, I tend to hum and ha, and reread the thread to make sure I have understood it all, and by the time I have made my mind up the thread is usually over, and that means that the person on the receiving end doesn't know I thought they had been given a hard time. So perhaps we should call it when we see it, and not leave it all to the mods.
> 
> I haven't joined in much on the Brexit threads (and believe me I have strong opinions there) because I thought there was no chance of a sensible discussion. I think it should be discussed because it is the most important political change in the UK this century - whatever side you are on!


Indeed. I'm getting fed up with interesting debates being closed due to someone, usually on the pro-Brexit side moaning because people won't convert to their way of thinking. They play the bullying card despite themselves often referring to derogatory terms such as Britain Haters and Remoaners in the past.

Getting threads closed like this causes much frustration as we're being silenced basically.

On another forum with a similar General Chat section, their Brexit thread continues, now on its 856 page. There's been occasional similar problems with Brexiters trying to get the thread closed.

What happens there is the thread is suspended for a few days for tempers to calm down with the perpetrators warned or banned.


----------



## Clive G

StormyThai said:


> If they requested to leave then anyone is free to rejoin, if the account was banned then no they breaking the rules by making a new account.


This is part of the problem, mods' making up the rules as the go along. The "rules and terms" are quite clear and maybe need updating rather than "making up" so everyone knows where they stand. Common sense and an understanding of what "moderating" actually is would also be welcome. Mods' are a bit like politicians, anyone that wants to be one probably shouldn't.

As an aside, you can't ban anyone from a forum, you can only suspend or delete an account.

FYI, the rules and terms we all signed up for, mods' please read with great care.

*The providers of the service provided by this website are not responsible for any user-generated content and accounts. Content submitted express the views of their author only.

You agree not to use the service to submit or link any content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws.

All content you submit or upload may be reviewed by staff members. All content you submit or upload may be sent to thirs-party verification services (including, but not limited to, spam prevention services). Do not submit any content that you consider to be private ot confidential.

We reserve the rights to remove or modify any content submitted for any reason without explanation. Requests for content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We reserve the right to take action against any account with the service at any time.

You are granting us with non-exclusive, permanent, ittevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your content in connection with the service. You retain copyright over the content.

These terms may be changed at any time without notice.*


----------



## StormyThai

I would also like to point out that we don't close threads lightly...so it takes a bit more than "moaning because people won't convert"
Also both "sides" have reported the political threads so lets not turn this into a "them V's us" please...


----------



## StormyThai

Clive G said:


> This is part of the problem, mods' making up the rules as the go along.


Can you prove this please?


Clive G said:


> These terms may be changed at any time without notice.


You might want to re read what you posted....the last sentace should interest you!


----------



## simplysardonic

Clive G said:


> This is part of the problem, mods' making up the rules as the go along. The "rules and terms" are quite clear and maybe need updating rather than "making up" so everyone knows where they stand. Common sense and an understanding of what "moderating" actually is would also be welcome. *Mods' are a bit like politicians, anyone that wants to be one probably shouldn't.*
> 
> As an aside, you can't ban anyone from a forum, you can only suspend or delete an account.
> 
> FYI, the rules and terms we all signed up for, mods' please read with great care.
> 
> *The providers of the service provided by this website are not responsible for any user-generated content and accounts. Content submitted express the views of their author only.
> 
> You agree not to use the service to submit or link any content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws.
> 
> All content you submit or upload may be reviewed by staff members. All content you submit or upload may be sent to thirs-party verification services (including, but not limited to, spam prevention services). Do not submit any content that you consider to be private ot confidential.
> 
> We reserve the rights to remove or modify any content submitted for any reason without explanation. Requests for content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We reserve the right to take action against any account with the service at any time.
> 
> You are granting us with non-exclusive, permanent, ittevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your content in connection with the service. You retain copyright over the content.
> 
> These terms may be changed at any time without notice.*


With all due respect, as someone who has been a member of the forum just under a week & posted the grand total of 5 times, none of them in any forums remotely pet related, I find myself wondering why you are even here.

This is a pet specific forum, not a political one, & this been pointed out many times, it has also been noted that many other specialist forums don't even allow political threads due to the issues they cause.


----------



## KittenKong

StormyThai said:


> I would also like to point out that we don't close threads lightly...so it takes a bit more than "moaning because people won't convert"
> Also both "sides" have reported the political threads so lets not turn this into a "them V's us" please...


Wasn't my intention. Apologies if it came over this way.

You're right that there's been a couple of nembers in the past who've been derogatory towards those of a different opinion, most recently in the Enoch Powell thread where the perpetrator called opponents of his pro Powell views etc. "Morons".

I would imagine the person in question would have been reported!


----------



## Calvine

Arnie83 said:


> I never think personal attacks are a good idea, and if they start getting abusive then the mods should certainly step in and - in my view - suspend the perpetrator rather than close the thread, which 'punishes' everyone for the misdemeanours of the very very few.
> 
> I think we would do well (in life, never mind PF!) to vigorously dispute false 'facts' while politely agreeing to disagree when something is a matter of opinion. And I think we should expect both of those to happen, and not get all huffy when we are told we've got a fact wrong.
> 
> That all sounds terribly pompous, but to put it simply, "You're wrong (because)" is fine. "You're an idiot" isn't.


Agree totally; and to be honest, I have never seen you be abusive to anyone.


----------



## Blackadder

@Clive G ... there's always one!!!!

If you want to see moderating done badly I can direct you to a couple of boards. At least here if a thread is closed there's generally an explanation, I might not agree but I know why.


----------



## Calvine

_''I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.''_

Above quote has been attributed to several people and no-one seems 100% sure who wrote it, or in what language.


----------



## O2.0

Arnie83 said:


> I think we would do well (in life, never mind PF!) *to vigorously dispute false 'facts' *while politely agreeing to disagree when something is a matter of opinion. And I think we should expect both of those to happen, and not get all huffy when we are told we've got a fact wrong.


Agreed. 
And also agreed that some people seem to have difficulty accepting it when they've been proven wrong. From the old wive's tales that dogs and cats need to have "just one litter" to the current craze that fruit is bad for you because it has sugar. 
Granted, I can counter a falsity with an eye roll and "that's total bullshit" comment, or I can respond with a more gentle "current evidence shows that's not true." People are much more likely to respond better to the latter of course. But yes, there are those who have a hissy fit no matter how nice you are in debunking their information.

Then there is stuff like this. And this actually happened to me recently (about a month ago). 
On FB, I saw a comment by a friend to someone I don't know, not to worry about an older bitch having a 5th litter (of a breed prone to needing c-sections) and then went on to say her bitch just had a 5th litter and is fine. Now, yes, the bitch is fine - now. But she had an emergency c-section, they almost lost her, and lost 6 of the pups too. And I know this for a fact because I was part of the panicked emails and texts. 
None of this was mentioned. 
What do you do? I ended up not saying anything but now I'm wondering if I should have. This was information meant to guide someone in to an informed decision. Leaving out the c-section info was pretty critical IMO. But I don't know the person she was commenting to, I was not part of the conversation, and quite frankly I didn't want to deal with the potential confrontation, aka I wimped out.

What do you do when this happens here? When people post "I did X and my dog/cat/horse is fine" but you happen to know that the "fine" is a lot more nuanced than that, or maybe an outright lie, the fine isn't actually "fine". Especially when it's a new poster looking to make an informed decision, and you know they're not being given the full story. Now make that person not giving the full story a forum favorite.


----------



## Clive G

StormyThai said:


> Can you prove this please?
> 
> You might want to re read what you posted....the last sentace should interest you!


They can be changed yes, but surely that means the rules will be updated otherwise they are meaningless and simply made up.



simplysardonic said:


> With all due respect, as someone who has been a member of the forum just under a week & posted the grand total of 5 times, none of them in any forums remotely pet related, I find myself wondering why you are even here.
> 
> This is a pet specific forum, not a political one, & this been pointed out many times, it has also been noted that many other specialist forums don't even allow political threads due to the issues they cause.


As I said in my first post I've been reading this forum for a good few years for market research purposes (not just this forum but others and most social media as well). Only intended to make one post but you kind off get drawn in....


----------



## O2.0

cheekyscrip said:


> Question apart - can anyone join the forum again under new username and only from the posts we could guess who it is - we as pf members, mods possibly know?
> I am tired from guessing who was who in former incarnations.
> At least could the re- joiners in new name refer to the old one in obvious way?
> It really creates a valley of shadows and undercurrents.


Speaking of shadows and undercurrents, why didn't you just tag or quote me since you're clearly referring to me?

I never hid who I am when I rejoined. I just rejoined, posted, was welcomed as a new member by @rottiepointerhouse and I immediately told her who I was, that I wasn't a new member. I just didn't make a big fanfare about rejoining nor about leaving for that matter. I have posted about Bates, posted photos of him, I've most definitely not hidden who I am.
I couldn't use my old username because the system wouldn't let me. So I used version 2.0 - get it? It was trying to be funny


----------



## StormyThai

Clive G said:


> They can be changed yes, but surely that means the rules will be updated otherwise they are meaningless and simply made up.


What rules are you referring to?
What rules are you accusing us of making up?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

O2.0 said:


> Agreed.
> And also agreed that some people seem to have difficulty accepting it when they've been proven wrong. From the old wive's tales that dogs and cats need to have "just one litter" to the current craze that fruit is bad for you because it has sugar.
> Granted, I can counter a falsity with an eye roll and "that's total bullshit" comment, or I can respond with a more gentle "current evidence shows that's not true." People are much more likely to respond better to the latter of course. But yes, there are those who have a hissy fit no matter how nice you are in debunking their information.
> 
> Then there is stuff like this. And this actually happened to me recently (about a month ago).
> On FB, I saw a comment by a friend to someone I don't know, not to worry about an older bitch having a 5th litter (of a breed prone to needing c-sections) and then went on to say her bitch just had a 5th litter and is fine. Now, yes, the bitch is fine - now. But she had an emergency c-section, they almost lost her, and lost 6 of the pups too. And I know this for a fact because I was part of the panicked emails and texts.
> None of this was mentioned.
> What do you do? I ended up not saying anything but now I'm wondering if I should have. This was information meant to guide someone in to an informed decision. Leaving out the c-section info was pretty critical IMO. But I don't know the person she was commenting to, I was not part of the conversation, and quite frankly I didn't want to deal with the potential confrontation, aka I wimped out.
> 
> What do you do when this happens here? When people post "I did X and my dog/cat/horse is fine" but you happen to know that the "fine" is a lot more nuanced than that, or maybe an outright lie, the fine isn't actually "fine". Especially when it's a new poster looking to make an informed decision, and you know they're not being given the full story. Now make that person not giving the full story a forum favorite.


I think there are ways to draw the friend's previous experience in without being confrontational but yeah tricky if you were not actually part of the discussion other than maybe posting an article or research about the risks of 5th litters.

I do have to wonder who these forum favourites are though, I couldn't name any who would be regarded as such. We all have people we share opinions with on some subjects but can be at absolute logger heads with on others. Even within the subjects like veganism (there are quite a lot of us now on here) we all have slightly different views although to the non vegan members of the forum I'm sure we might seem like a clique or a gang but if they look/read carefully they will see we don't by any means agree on everything.


----------



## Arnie83

Calvine said:


> Agree totally; and to be honest, I have never seen you be abusive to anyone.


Wait.


----------



## kimthecat

Arnie83 said:


> Wait.


 :Hilarious


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

cheekyscrip said:


> Banning topics smacks of censorship.
> We are adults for pit sake !!!! If a topic is not to our taste please refrain from reading and contributing.
> 
> If you do - don't run to Mods to spit your dummy someone did not agree with you!
> Personal insults should be removed and attacks at hominem too, general comments should be left.
> 
> So we should ban anything that causes heat?
> 
> Question apart - can anyone join the forum again under new username and only from the posts we could guess who it is - we as pf members, mods possibly know?
> I am tired from guessing who was who in former incarnations.
> At least could the re- joiners in new name refer to the old one in obvious way?
> It really creates a valley of shadows and undercurrents.


This is kind of what I mean about festering sores though @cheekyscrip - there is obviously some history here which is being held on to and carried over. Why not just ask the members using new names why they are. I do find it confusing when existing members change their names, to me they are still who they were before for a long time before my mind switches to the new name but then I find it confusing when people change their avatar photos too (@noushka05 I can't keep track of for instance :Joyful) . I hope this thread can be way of airing some of these grievances although I don't want to see it turn into a bun fight of who said what to who and who.


----------



## kimthecat

Its easy to be curt when you're in a hurry or cross with someone , for example , who doesnt believe in spaying cats .
Sometimes Ive read back my post and think , would I like it if someone said this to me ? and Ive edited it because I wouldn't like it .

When i want to let off steam , Ive done draft posts that would definitely get me banned and then of course , I edit them . It helps but do be careful to edit them properly and not leave rude bits in 

Again , I would urge anyone to make a note of any threads where you feel you were unfairly treated and to take screen shots of posts that you feel have broken the rules . Posts are often deleted and cant be traced . This will save the mods a lot of time when dealing with your report .

This also helps when you question someone about what they said and they deny it , they may well have forgotten , its easily done or they are deliberately lying and you can prove they are especially if they are demanding an apology . You can be banned if you refuse to apologise .

I would also say , sometimes it helps to read back over the posts a few days later . It might not be as bad as you thought it was at time,


----------



## SusieRainbow

Clive G said:


> They can be changed yes, but surely that means the rules will be updated otherwise they are meaningless and simply made up.


The rules as they stand are still valid and don't require any amendments.


----------



## Elles

We aren't all adults. Teenagers and older kids read this forum and share stories about their family pets, or ask for advice and support when their family pet is ill.

Threads get locked because they are becoming too contentious and upsetting too many people. The moderators read the threads before they decide, they don't just lock them.

With all due respect @cheekyscrip, you're not a mod, so you have no idea how many reports from how many people a thread might get. Assuming it's one person 'spitting their dummy out and running to the mods' and putting it like that in the thread, makes it look as though you're becoming angry, confused and hurt yourself and likely to bring about another locked thread imo.

I've reported threads and posts, I certainly didn't spit any dummies out.


----------



## kimthecat

KittenKong said:


> On another forum with a similar General Chat section, their Brexit thread continues, now on its 856 page. There's been occasional similar problems with Brexiters trying to get the thread closed.
> .


Are they ? Which ones? I'm certainly not . SWC isnt posting now.
At least in this one you didn't keep posting Nazi photos !


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

I think we should all take 5 minutes and appreciate a bit of Sergei Polunin. My sincere thanks to @Magyarmum for introducing me to him


----------



## Elles

One thing that’s become clear is that people are assuming all kinds of things about why threads are locked. This will be why the behaviour doesn’t change, as most don’t realise it’s their own modus operandi that was a contributory factor. The only way past that is to lock the thread and point out to individuals which of their posts were part of the problem. But then people would feel singled out and the mods accused of favouritism, even if they told half a dozen people to ‘cool it’. There are no winners here.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Elles said:


> One thing that's become clear is that people are assuming all kinds of things about why threads are locked. This will be why the behaviour doesn't change, as most don't realise it's their own modus operandi that was a contributory factor. The only way past that is to lock the thread and point out to individuals which of their posts were part of the problem. But then people would feel singled out and the mods accused of favouritism, even if they told half a dozen people to 'cool it'. There are no winners here.


I think that is a good point actually. Quite often I hear (and I'm sure I do it myself too) people complaining like mad about the way another member is treating them when they are doing exactly the same thing to the other person. The thread then gets closed and they think "I was right, that person was out of order" when it may well have been their post was equally if not more to blame for the closure.


----------



## Clive G

StormyThai said:


> What rules are you referring to?
> What rules are you accusing us of making up?


I really don't have the time or inclination to humour you. Saying that though as a starter if you can show me where this is in the "Rules and Terms" I would be most grateful and apologise.

_Leaving threads are against forum rules as you well know :Locktopic
_


----------



## Clive G

SusieRainbow said:


> The rules as they stand are still valid and don't require any amendments.


Then the mods shouldn't go adding, or making up, their own which aren't in the written Rules and Terms which we sign up and agree to. You can't expect people to follow rules that no one knows exist.


----------



## kimthecat

@Clive G There's a pinned thread Forums Rules at the top of this section .

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/forum-rules.429795/

I dont actually remember signing an agreement but i joined along time ago so I might have forgotten


----------



## SusieRainbow

Clive G said:


> Then the mods shouldn't go adding, or making up, their own which aren't in the written Rules and Terms which we sign up and agree to. You can't expect people to follow rules that no one knows exist.


Please quote where we've done this.


----------



## KittenKong

kimthecat said:


> Are they ? Which ones? I'm certainly not . SWC isnt posting now.
> At least in this one you didn't keep posting Nazi photos !


Nazi photos? Sorry, but you've lost me there.

As for your question

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=36226&start=17100

Think you have to be a forum member to see off topic posts.


----------



## Clive G

kimthecat said:


> @Clive G There's a pinned thread Forums Rules at the top of this section .
> 
> I dont actually remember signing an agreement but i joined along time ago so I might have forgotten


So there is! Didn't see that. I'm referring to the rules and terms we are asked to ageed to when we sign up.

Interesting we are not allowed to promote shock collars as I know two people who's dogs lives have been saved by said devices. Unusual rule that and definitely comes under censorship.

Think I'll leave this forum now and it's obviously not a place that champions free speech. I'll continue to read it though as it does assist our business and for that I thank the forum members.


----------



## simplysardonic

Clive G said:


> So there is! Didn't see that. I'm referring to the rules and terms we are asked to ageed to when we sign up.
> 
> *Interesting we are not allowed to promote shock collars as I know two people who's dogs lives have been saved by said devices*. Unusual rule that and definitely comes under censorship.
> 
> Think I'll leave this forum now and it's obviously not a place that champions free speech. I'll continue to read it though as it does assist our business and for that I thank the forum members.


The forum as a whole does not promote aversives of any kind, & shock collars are one of those aversive tools that are frequently misused.

This rule has been here since I joined nearly 9 years ago, so I'm surprised you've not joined & questioned this sooner if you've been conducting market research for 4 or 5 years.

I'm presuming from your 'we are not allowed to promote shock collars' the 'we' is referring to your 'very high end pet supplies' company, if that's the case I'm happy that by not 'championing free speech' we are reducing the incidences of these things being promoted TBH.


----------



## Clive G

simplysardonic said:


> The forum as a whole does not promote aversives of any kind, & shock collars are one of those aversive tools that are frequently misused.
> 
> This rule has been here since I joined nearly 9 years ago, so I'm surprised you've not joined & questioned this sooner if you've been conducting market research for 4 or 5 years.
> 
> I'm presuming from your 'we are not allowed to promote shock collars' the 'we' is referring to your 'very high end pet supplies' company, if that's the case I'm happy that by not 'championing free speech' we are reducing the incidences of these things being promoted TBH.


More presumptions and making things up as you go. We do not manufacture or supply shock collars, I was just surprised a potentially life saving device is a banned topic, shocking!! I do agree they can be misused though, but so can a Wellington boot or stick, guess they are banned topics as well (actually I know the boots aren't as there have been a few threads on here about them which have been useful).


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Clive G said:


> More presumptions and making things up as you go. We do not manufacture or supply shock collars, I was just surprised a potentially life saving device is a banned topic, shocking!! I do agree they can be misused though, but so can a Wellington boot or stick, guess they are banned topics as well (actually I know the boots aren't as there have been a few threads on here about them which have been useful).


Don't know about you but when I'm wearing a Wellington Boot it doesn't affect anyone else or the welfare of my dogs whereas a shock collar most certainly could affect not only the welfare of my dogs but my relationship with them.


----------



## StormyThai

Clive G said:


> I really don't have the time or inclination to humour you. Saying that though as a starter if you can show me where this is in the "Rules and Terms" I would be most grateful and apologise.
> 
> _Leaving threads are against forum rules as you well know :Locktopic_





lymorelynn said:


> No 'I am leaving' type of threads


 https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/forum-rules.429795/

You can not accuse staff members of "making up rules as we go along" and then not provide proof when asked...


----------



## Clive G

StormyThai said:


> https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/forum-rules.429795/
> 
> You can not accuse staff members of "making up rules as we go along" and then not provide proof when asked...


Please read my post where I said I hadn't seen that sticky post. I would never have seen it if it hadn't been pointed out because I always use "recent posts" so never access or see the sticky threads. And as is said they are not in the "rules and terms" we sign up to.


----------



## kimthecat

KittenKong said:


> https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=36226&start=17100
> Nazi photos? Sorry, but you've lost me there.


OIC Not this forum. Sorry. got a bit muddle. Thought you meant a thread here . Yeah , you have you sign up or that forum.
Don't see the point of comparing what happens on other forums to this one though .


----------



## StormyThai

That thread was made 2 years ago so as you have been lurking for 5 years it would have popped up on "new posts"



Clive G said:


> in the "rules and terms" we sign up to.


I have already pointed you to the part that states the rules can change so it might have been wise to have a look for any amendments before accusing staff members of making things up


----------



## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> Its easy to be curt when you're in a hurry or cross with someone , for example , who doesnt believe in spaying cats .
> Sometimes Ive read back my post and think , would I like it if someone said this to me ? and Ive edited it because I wouldn't like it .
> 
> When i want to let off steam , Ive done draft posts that would definitely get me banned and then of course , I edit them . It helps but do be careful to edit them properly and not leave rude bits in
> 
> Again , I would urge anyone to make a note of any threads where you feel you were unfairly treated and to take screen shots of posts that you feel have broken the rules . Posts are often deleted and cant be traced . This will save the mods a lot of time when dealing with your report .
> 
> This also helps when you question someone about what they said and they deny it , they may well have forgotten , its easily done or they are deliberately lying and you can prove they are especially if they are demanding an apology . You can be banned if you refuse to apologise .
> 
> I would also say , sometimes it helps to read back over the posts a few days later . It might not be as bad as you thought it was at time,


How do you take screen shots?


----------



## kimthecat

Animallover26 said:


> How do you take screen shots?


Good question . If you use a PC , laptop or tablet , just take a photo of the screen on a camera or mobile phone.


----------



## kimthecat

Clive G said:


> Think I'll leave this forum now and it's obviously not a place that champions free speech. .


 Bye !


----------



## Sacrechat

Animallover26 said:


> How do you take screen shots?


It depends what device you are using. On an iPad or iPhone you press the button at the bottom of your phone that you use to bring your phone out of standby or to close an app as well as the button you use to power up or power down your phone. You must press both buttons simultaneously and a copy of your screen will be saved in photos.

On a PC there is a key on the top right usually that says screen/ print screen. You press that in combination with either the control key or alt key. I can't remember which.


----------



## Clive G

StormyThai said:


> That thread was made 2 years ago so as you have been lurking for 5 years it would have popped up on "new posts"
> 
> I have already pointed you to the part that states the rules can change so it might have been wise to have a look for any amendments before accusing staff members of making things up


And as I said I would never see where you have posted the sticky as I, probably like many, use the "recent post" feature. Why would I go seeking out additional rules and terms when they are clearly marked at the bottom of every page? Very strange indeed.


----------



## delca1

Animallover26 said:


> How do you take screen shots?





kimthecat said:


> Good question . If you use a PC , laptop or tablet , just take a photo of the screen on a camera or mobile phone.


There is a button on computers that when pressed takes a screen shot and saves it. I was shown by my son a few times, last time I asked him he sighed heavily and gave me a look! Now I do exactly what kimthecat said - take a photo with my phone. Simple.


----------



## Clive G

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Don't know about you but when I'm wearing a Wellington Boot it doesn't affect anyone else or the welfare of my dogs whereas a shock collar most certainly could affect not only the welfare of my dogs but my relationship with them.


Your boot if used incorrectly could cause far more damage (even death) to your pet than a shock collar.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Clive G said:


> And as I said I would never see where you have posted the sticky as I, probably like many, use the "recent post" feature. Why would I go seeking out additional rules and terms when they are clearly marked at the bottom of every page? Very strange indeed.


Beause, as you said, rules shoud be updated ?


----------



## Clive G

delca1 said:


> There is a button on computers that when pressed takes a screen shot and saves it. I was shown by my son a few times, last time I asked him he sighed heavily and gave me a look! Now I do exactly what kimthecat said - take a photo with my phone. Simple.


"prt sc" (print screen) then just paste and you have your screen shot.


----------



## labradrk

Clive G said:


> Your boot if used incorrectly could cause far more damage (even death) to your pet than a shock collar.


Luckily most of us don't want to boot or electrocute our dogs, so it's sort of irrelevant really.....


----------



## kimthecat

delca1 said:


> There is a button on computers that when pressed takes a screen shot and saves it. I was shown by my son a few times, last time I asked him he sighed heavily and gave me a look!


I didn't know that ! That would be a lot easier . :Joyful


----------



## Happy Paws2

Clive G said:


> Your boot if used incorrectly could cause far more damage (even death) to your pet than a shock collar.


:Jawdrop:Woot are you crazy


----------



## Clive G

SusieRainbow said:


> Beause, as you said, rules shoud be updated ?


Yes, but in the place where we signed up to them, not some sticky that may never been seen. Also maybe a forumwide pm when they are updated would bring any changes to everyone's attention.


----------



## Clive G

Happy Paws said:


> :Jawdrop:Woot are you crazy


Apparently!


----------



## delca1

kimthecat said:


> I didn't know that ! That would be a lot easier . :Joyful


It is definitely NOT easier :Wideyed


----------



## kimthecat

delca1 said:


> It is definitely NOT easier :Wideyed


:Hilarious I _really _hate technology sometimes.


----------



## Sacrechat

Sacremist said:


> It depends what device you are using. On an iPad or iPhone you press the button at the bottom of your phone that you use to bring your phone out of standby or to close an app as well as the button you use to power up or power down your phone. You must press both buttons simultaneously and a copy of your screen will be saved in photos.
> 
> On a PC there is a key on the top right usually that says screen/ print screen. You press that in combination with either the control key or alt key. I can't remember which.


For example:


----------



## ForestWomble

Sacremist said:


> It depends what device you are using. On an iPad or iPhone you press the button at the bottom of your phone that you use to bring your phone out of standby or to close an app as well as the button you use to power up or power down your phone. You must press both buttons simultaneously and a copy of your screen will be saved in photos.
> 
> On a PC there is a key on the top right usually that says screen/ print screen. You press that in combination with either the control key or alt key. I can't remember which.


Thank you.

I use a computer and have just discovered the print screen button on my keyboard


----------



## Clive G

labradrk said:


> Luckily most of us don't want to boot or electrocute our dogs, so it's sort of irrelevant really.....


I agree. The ones I'm thinking off are the invisible fences that work with a shock collar. These are lifesavers where you can't put a conventional fence. Two people I know have these now after their dogs got run over. Definately life savers. I would never use, or condone using one for "training" purpose. I can see no reason why these fences/collars can't be discussed on a fourm.


----------



## Elles

My boots were made for walking, your shock collar was made to apply electric shocks to an animal. No comparison. If you don't have a fence and it’s not safe, don’t leave your dog outside on his own. E-collars are banned in some areas, so owners have to find another solution and there are other solutions.

ETA anyway you know now, so to keep promoting them is surely bannable?


----------



## kimthecat

Animallover26 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I use a computer and have just discovered the print screen button on my keyboard


 and there a load of buttons with F1 up to F12 as well . i have no idea what they do .


----------



## labradrk

Clive G said:


> I agree. The ones I'm thinking off are the invisible fences that work with a shock collar. These are lifesavers where you can't put a conventional fence. Two people I know have these now after their dogs got run over. Definately life savers. I would never use, or condone using one for "training" purpose. I can see no reason why these fences/collars can't be discussed on a fourm.


To be honest if I couldn't couldn't put a traditional fence up, I'd either not have dogs or have to make do with taking them out on a lead.

An electric containment system isn't safe, either. Firstly because it doesn't stop things getting in, and secondly depending on the dogs level of motivation, a shock won't necessarily stop them getting out. And if DOES stop them, I would worry about the long term psychological effects. So no, it's not something most people should use or need to discuss on a forum.


----------



## Clive G

Elles said:


> My boots were made for walking, your shock collar was made to apply electric shocks to an animal. No comparison. If you don't have a fence and it's not safe, don't leave your dog outside on his own. E-collars are banned in some areas, so owners have to find another solution and there are other solutions.


Pray tell what the solution is to a cattlegrid? Dogs will get a shock maybe twice, they soon learn and then have the run of acres of land (in the cases I know off). Which is better, being outside all day or shut inside?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Shall we stay on topic ?


----------



## StormyThai

Clive G said:


> Yes, but in the place where we signed up to them, not some sticky that may never been seen.


Can I ask what is your actual issue please?
The terms and rules clearly state that the rules can change at any time...some rules needed to be added so they were put in a sticky where any member (or guest) can see them (we don't have access to change the terms page, only the owner has that access)...you then accuse staff members of making rules up as we go along, when asked which rules we made up you jumped straight to my post on a locked thread...
When shown that it is indeed against forum rules and I did not "make it up" you don't apologise...instead you moan that this rule isn't in the terms...

What is in the terms that you sign up for is this:-

"We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation."

So are you just here to berate the mods or?


----------



## labradrk

Clive G said:


> Pray tell what the solution is to a cattlegrid? Dogs will get a shock maybe twice, they soon learn and then have the run of acres of land (in the cases I know off). Which is better, being outside all day or shut inside?


It's all completely relative. I've never had a dog that has had the run of acreage; I expect the majority of the dogs in this country never have and never will. In the colder months, my dogs spend all day indoors apart from walks and toilet trips in the garden. Again, this is pretty standard for most pet dogs. So no, a dog doesn't need to be outside and 'have the run of acres of land' all day.


----------



## Clive G

StormyThai said:


> Can I ask what is your actual issue please?
> The terms and rules clearly state that the rules can change at any time...some rules needed to be added so they were put in a sticky where any member (or guest) can see them (we don't have access to change the terms page, only the owner has that access)...you then accuse staff members of making rules up as we go along, when asked which rules we made up you jumped straight to my post on a locked thread...
> When shown that it is indeed against forum rules and I did not "make it up" you don't apologise...instead you moan that this rule isn't in the terms...
> 
> What is in the terms that you sign up for is this:-
> 
> "We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation."
> 
> So are you just here to berate the mods or?


Not at all. But you can't expect people to abide by rules they've never see and don't know exist, especially when they have already seen the "rules and terms". I've not questioned your right to "remove or modify content" as that is in the "terms and rules" and as such I was aware of it.

I quoted that one of yours as it's recent and sprang to mind, nothing more.


----------



## Sacrechat

Animallover26 said:


> Thank
> I use a computer and have just discovered the print screen button on my keyboard


I've copied only the relevant bits:


















Hope this helps.


----------



## kimthecat

has the Army in standbye thread been delete . I was going to post on it about Farage and what he is up to but I cant find it  . 

@Sacremist Thanks , thats very useful .


----------



## StormyThai

It is not staff members fault that you did not search the forum for updated rules before accusing us of making things up....
If a member breaks a rule they are reminded which rule (not in public) so your point is still lost on me.


----------



## lorilu

Animallover26 said:


> How do you take screen shots?


Look for the little scissors icon. click on it. Click on "new" With your mouse, start at the corner of the content you are saving, draw a line around the shot you want to save (the line appears automatically). Release the mouse and the save box comes up. Save it to your computer (I have a folder I called "snips" in my Photo Gallery for this)


----------



## simplysardonic

Clive G said:


> Not at all. *But you can't expect people to abide by rules they've never see and don't know exist,* especially when they have already seen the "rules and terms". I've not questioned your right to "remove or modify content" as that is in the "terms and rules" and as such I was aware of it.
> 
> I quoted that one of yours as it's recent and sprang to mind, nothing more.


Oddly enough the vast majority of our members have never had an issue with this.


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> has the Army in standbye thread been delete . I was going to post on it about Farage and what he is up to but I cant find it  .


It was moved to give everyone a breathing space as we were getting reports about it. It may or may not be placed back.


----------



## Clive G

StormyThai said:


> It is not staff members fault that you did not search the forum for updated rules before accusing us of making things up....
> If a member breaks a rule they are reminded which rule (not in public) so your point is still lost on me.


Obviously.

Simply put your "terms and rules", which are linked on every single page (I think) do not mention most of the rules you apply. Most people would not imagine there are other rules hidden away. I'm simply suggesting you update the "terms and rules" or at lease mention in them that additional forum rules are availble and where to find them.


----------



## lorilu

Clive G said:


> Obviously.
> 
> Simply put your "terms and rules", which are linked on every single page (I think) do not mention most of the rules you apply. Most people would not imagine there are other rules hidden away. I'm simply suggesting you update the "terms and rules" or at lease mention in them that additional forum rules are availble and where to find them.


Shut. UP.

You've been told. Accept it or go somewhere else.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Clive G said:


> Your boot if used incorrectly could cause far more damage (even death) to your pet than a shock collar.


Yes that must explain the campaign to get Wellie Boots banned and why they have been banned in some countries and hopefully will be banned here too soon. I must remember to get rid of my Wellies before any ban comes in.

Now we have done Wellie boots to death (they are lethal after all) can we get back to the subject of the thread please.


----------



## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> It was moved to give everyone a breathing space as we were getting reports about it. It may or may not be placed back.


That's fine  I thought I was having a senior moment when I couldn't find it !


----------



## SusieRainbow

Clive G said:


> Obviously.
> 
> Simply put your "terms and rules", which are linked on every single page (I think) do not mention most of the rules you apply. Most people would not imagine there are other rules hidden away. I'm simply suggesting you update the "terms and rules" or at lease mention in them that additional forum rules are availble and where to find them.


Oh, come on, they are hardly hidden away ! You make it sound as though we're just out to catch people out !


----------



## StormyThai

Are you even reading the whole of my posts or just cherry picking the bits you point a finger at?
I feel like we are in different threads or something


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

StormyThai said:


> Are you even reading the whole of my posts or just cherry picking the bits you point a finger at?
> I feel like we are in different threads or something


I feel like we are in a different universe - one where Wellie boots are lethal weapons and nobody has heard of specsavers


----------



## Clive G

SusieRainbow said:


> Oh, come on, they are hardly hidden away !


That's the point, they are if you use the "recent/new post" feature. Use that and they are totally hidden, which is why I wasn't aware of them.

It's actually constructive criticism that could save the mods a lot of grief.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Clive G said:


> That's the point, they are if you use the "recent/new post" feature. Use that and they are totally hidden, which is why I wasn't aware of them.


Don't use it then. Now can we stop this thread being all about you and the pickle you seem to have got yourself in :Wideyed Thank you.


----------



## Northpup

Clive G said:


> Your boot if used incorrectly could cause far more damage (even death) to your pet than a shock collar.


Boots are used for walking and wearing on human feet. The sole purpose of them is not to be used on animals.
Shock collars sole purpose is to be placed around the neck of your pet and used for whatever purpose you choose.
So really a terrible comparison. Shock collars purpose is for use on animals. Wellies purpose is nothing to do with animals. They are shoes you can choose to wear


----------



## StormyThai

Clive G said:


> which is why I wasn't aware of them.


Maybe this would have been avoided if you hadn't accused people of something in which you were not fully informed?
Maybe before accusing people of something you make sure you are 100% right and you have all the facts to hand?

hmmmm?


----------



## Clive G

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Don't use it then. Now can we stop this thread being all about you and the pickle you seem to have got yourself in :Wideyed Thank you.


Now I'm aware of them it all good. But how many other people never see them? How many people do use the recent post feature because it's far easier than clicking on every single sub-forum to find new/updated threads.

I'm not in a pickle at all. Just a bit flabbergasted at the slap-dash approach the forum has to promoting it's terms and rules.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Clive G said:


> Now I'm aware of them it all good. But how many other people never see them? How many people do use the recent post feature because it's far easier than clicking on every single sub-forum to find new/updated threads.
> 
> I'm not in a pickle at all. Just a bit flabbergasted at the slap-dash approach the forum has to promoting it's terms and rules.


OK. I would say you have made a proper gherkin of yourself but not to worry. Can we drop it now. Please?


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> Look for the little scissors icon. click on it. Click on "new" With your mouse, start at the corner of the content you are saving, draw a line around the shot you want to save (the line appears automatically). Release the mouse and the save box comes up. Save it to your computer (I have a folder I called "snips" in my Photo Gallery for this)


This is interesting; I didn't know this method. What device are you using?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Clive G said:


> Now I'm aware of them it all good. But how many other people never see them? How many people do use the recent post feature because it's far easier than clicking on every single sub-forum to find new/updated threads.
> 
> I'm not in a pickle at all. Just a bit flabbergasted at the slap-dash approach the forum has to promoting it's terms and rules.


Well , as we're so slap-dash and sloppy why are you still wasting your valuable time on us ?


----------



## ForestWomble

kimthecat said:


> and there a load of buttons with F1 up to F12 as well . i have no idea what they do .


Me neither 
To be fair I know what I need to know (I can write essays etc on Word and I can come on here and use google and online shop) but that is it, anything else I need to be shown, do whats needed then I've probably forgotten again hours later 



Sacremist said:


> I've copied only the relevant bits:
> 
> View attachment 364978
> 
> View attachment 364979
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.





lorilu said:


> Look for the little scissors icon. click on it. Click on "new" With your mouse, start at the corner of the content you are saving, draw a line around the shot you want to save (the line appears automatically). Release the mouse and the save box comes up. Save it to your computer (I have a folder I called "snips" in my Photo Gallery for this)


Thank you both, very helpful


----------



## lorilu

Clive G said:


> Now I'm aware of them it all good. But how many other people never see them? How many people do use the recent post feature because it's far easier than clicking on every single sub-forum to find new/updated threads.
> 
> I'm not in a pickle at all. Just a bit flabbergasted at the slap-dash approach the forum has to promoting it's terms and rules.


It is up to the member/user to familiarize her or himself to the rules on a website. In other words, *it is up to the individual to take responsibility for him or herself *and know what is allowed and what isn't.

I see this all the time in the city I work for. Someone complains about a parking ticket because they didn't know parking was illegal there. Oh hey, look there's a sign just up the street that says no parking any time this side of street. Look around you. Learn what's acceptable and what isn't. *Take responsibility for YOURSELF.*


----------



## Clive G

StormyThai said:


> Maybe this would have been avoided if you hadn't accused people of something in which you were not fully informed?
> Maybe before accusing people of something you make sure you are 100% right and you have all the facts to hand?
> 
> hmmmm?


I had all the facts that the forum made available to be. At NO point was I made aware there are additional forum rules, that is the point I'm trying to make but you just dismiss. Think about it for a minute or two and you may realise there is a good case for yout "terms and rules" to be updated.


----------



## lorilu

Sacremist said:


> This is interesting; I didn't know this method. What device are you using?


Lap top at home. PC at work. I've always done it this way.


----------



## lorilu

Clive G said:


> I had all the facts that the forum made available to be. At NO point was I made of aware there are additional forum rules, that is the point I'm trying to make but you just dismiss. Think about it for a minute or two and you may realise there is a good case for yout "terms and rules" to be updated.


DFTT people.


----------



## Pappychi

Clive G said:


> Pray tell what the solution is to a cattlegrid? Dogs will get a shock maybe twice, they soon learn and then have the run of acres of land (in the cases I know off). Which is better, being outside all day or shut inside?


I have land.

I'd never let my dogs have full run of any acreage.

I own bitches who are entire. How can I guarantee that a dog hasn't wondered onto the land and mated them without my knowledge?

How can you guarantee no one is coming onto my land with the purpose of stealing my dogs?

So, my dogs have a dog specific area which is close to the home where I can see them. It's built with real fence panels.

Also. What about dogs who pay zero attention to shocks? My Ovcharka would have took no notice of it whatsoever. Then you have a giant breed who has no hesitation in biting a rambler roaming land. It's ridiculous!

There's much better fencing alternatives out there then these electric fences. I wouldn't put my dogs life at the mercy of one of those fences.

In regards to the rules. Read them. If a mod warns you pay attention. It's very simple.


----------



## simplysardonic

Sorry @rottiepointerhouse for going OT, this will be my last on the subject.



Clive G said:


> Now I'm aware of them it all good. But how many other people never see them? How many people do use the recent post feature because it's far easier than clicking on every single sub-forum to find new/updated threads.
> 
> I'm not in a pickle at all. Just a bit flabbergasted at the slap-dash approach the forum has to promoting it's terms and rules.


As mods we do have other things to do, & lives outside the forum.

Prior to becoming a mod I knew where to find the rules, they are stickied on pretty much every forum & subforum, it's my responsibility to read them.

It's not our job to hold every newbie's hand because they can't be bothered to seek the rules out for themselves.


----------



## Clive G

lorilu said:


> It is up to the member/user to familiarize her or himself to the rules on a website. In other words, *it is up to the individual to take responsibility for him or herself *and know what is allowed and what isn't.
> 
> I see this all the time in the city I work for. Someone complains about a parking ticket because they didn't know parking was illegal there. Oh hey, look there's a sign just up the street that says no parking any time this side of street. Look around you. Learn what's acceptable and what isn't. *Take responsibility for YOURSELF.*


Thank you, that's exactly my point. I did read all the "terms and rules" that the forum made available to me. Had there been the additional rules shown I would have been aware of them. Just like your parking example, if there is no sign/road markings saying "no parking" then you can't complain if someone parks there.


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> Lap top at home. PC at work. I've always done it this way.


I'll have to hunt for it, because I don't remember seeing it. It's not a key but an app, is that right?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

simplysardonic said:


> Sorry @rottiepointerhouse for going OT, this will be my last on the subject.
> 
> As mods we do have other things to do, & lives outside the forum.
> 
> Prior to becoming a mod I knew where to find the rules, they are stickied on pretty much every forum & subforum, it's my responsibility to read them.
> 
> It's not our job to hold every newbie's hand because they can't be bothered to seek the rules out for themselves.


Don't worry - I have a feeling this is going to run and run because we have a classic example of one member being told by many other members that they are wrong but not backing down and carrying on and on and on the argument. You couldn't make it up really :Arghh


----------



## lorilu

Clive G said:


> Thank you, that's exactly my point. I did read all the "terms and rules" that the forum made available to me. Had there been the additional rules shown I would have been aware of them. Just like your parking example, if there is no sign/road markings saying "no parking" then you can't complain if someone parks there.


Actually that isn't what I said at all. The sign IS there. The person complaining didn't look for it.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Actually we haven't had a thread about pickled gherkins for a while now so perhaps we should digress in that direction layful


----------



## lorilu

Sacremist said:


> I'll have to hunt for it, because I don't remember seeing it. It's not a key but an app, is that right?


Well...I don't exactly know what "app" means. But yes, it is not a key. Go to your start menu and in the search box type "snip". It should come up. I keep the icon on my bottom tool bar so it's always there.


----------



## Clive G

SusieRainbow said:


> Well , as we're so slap-dash and sloppy why are you still wasting your valuable time on us ?


I really do not know. Just thought you might like to be aware of an issue regarding your rules not being visible to many users. Apparently you aren't bothered though, or maybe you just don't understand.


----------



## Pappychi

Gherkins is where it is at enguin

I only nipped on to find a picture of my tattoo I posted yonks ago enguin


----------



## lorilu

Pappychi said:


> Gherkins is where it is at enguin
> 
> I only nipped on to find a picture of my tattoo I posted yonks ago enguin


Isn't a gherkin a sweet pickle? I used to love them when I was a kid. Now, I discovered recently, not so much.


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> Well...I don't exactly know what "app" means. But yes, it is not a key. Go to your start menu and in the search box type "snip". It should come up. I keep the icon on my bottom tool bar so it's always there.


Thank you!


----------



## Pappychi

lorilu said:


> Isn't a gherkin a sweet pickle?


Kinda.

Best way to eat them is with a warm baguette and chicken pate (or mushroom for the veggies out there! That's also delicious!).


----------



## Sandysmum

Changing the subject slightly, why have leaving threads been banned? I don't see any reason for stopping people from saying they are leaving or just taking a break. It would be nice to know instead of having people just vanish into thin air.


----------



## Siskin

Gherkins and wellies. This thread has gone off in an interesting direction


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Pappychi said:


> Kinda.
> 
> Best way to eat them is with a warm baguette and chicken pate (or mushroom for the veggies out there! That's also delicious!).


Was it you who used to dip them in Nutella?



Siskin said:


> Gherkins and wellies. This thread has gone off in an interesting direction


I'm sure there must be a connection somewhere - I suppose a pickled Gherkin could look a bit like a green willie in the wrong light.


----------



## Pappychi

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Was it you who used to dip them in Nutella?
> 
> I'm sure there must be a connection somewhere - I suppose a pickled Gherkin could look a bit like a green willie in the wrong light.


Yes :Eggonface

Although mushroom pate is my current fave.


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Gherkins and wellies. This thread has gone off in an interesting direction


I was thinking of dummies . They get thrown out of the pram frequently


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Was it you who used to dip them in Nutella?
> 
> I'm sure there must be a connection somewhere - I suppose a pickled Gherkin could look a bit like a green willie in the wrong light.


Oops sorry I mean a green wellie


----------



## KittenKong

kimthecat said:


> OIC Not this forum. Sorry. got a bit muddle. Thought you meant a thread here . Yeah , you have you sign up or that forum.
> Don't see the point of comparing what happens on other forums to this one though .


Just mentioned what they do on the rare occasions tempers are risen. They suspend the thread for about 48 hours, removing any derogatory posts then reopen instead of removing the whole thread which is what appears to have happened with the "Stockpiling" one here unfortunately.

I've been very active on that forum which is why I mentioned it.

This in no way is intended to be a criticism of the moderators here who overall I believe do a fantastic job.

At the end of the day we're guests here at the site owner and moderators discretion.

We all need to respect that and their rules.


----------



## simplysardonic

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Was it you who used to dip them in Nutella?
> 
> I'm sure there must be a connection somewhere - I suppose a pickled Gherkin could look a bit like a green *willie* in the wrong light.


A willie that needs an urgent visit to the GP I fear.


----------



## lorilu

jetsmum said:


> Changing the subject slightly, why have leaving threads been banned? I don't see any reason for stopping people from saying they are leaving or just taking a break. It would be nice to know instead of having people just vanish into thin air.


Because it creates silly drama. Most forums do have "I'm leaving" thread bans.

If you (general you) want to take a break and don't want people to worry, PM someone you trust about it.

If you hate the forum and want to leave, no need to make a dramatic announcement, just stop posting or coming in. Or quietly PM admin and ask your account to be deactivated.


----------



## Siskin

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Oops sorry I mean a green wellie


Oh my word I've just noticed what you did. I was very careful when typing wellie for that very reason


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Siskin said:


> Oh my word I've just noticed what you did. I was very careful when typing wellie for that very reason


I'm typing a very important report for OH at the moment (Yes dear it is taking a bit longer than usual) and I'm being very careful not to type anything about gherkins or willies by mistake.


----------



## kimthecat

KittenKong said:


> Just mentioned what they do on the rare occasions tempers are risen. They suspend the thread for about 48 hours, removing any derogatory posts then reopen instead of removing the whole thread which is what appears to have happened with the "Stockpiling" one here unfortunately.
> 
> I've been very active on that forum which is why I mentioned it.
> 
> This in no way is intended to be a criticism of the moderators here who overall I believe do a fantastic job.
> 
> At the end of the day we're guests here at the site owner and moderators discretion.
> 
> We all need to respect that and their rules.


Absolutely ! 
However , the Mods have closed threads to moderate etc threads and reopened them . i cant remember the name of the thread but I do know 
Linzie closed a really long one and she spent *days* reading through it ! I don't think it was closed . The current one is closed but it might re open . I dont want it closed myself .


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm typing a very important report for OH at the moment (Yes dear it is taking a bit longer than usual) and I'm being very careful not to type anything about gherkins or willies by mistake.


 Reminds me of the time I at the head of the queue at the Car Insurance office and I had to ask for a Mr Rankin . Guess what I said . Think Jonathon Ross !


----------



## lorilu

kimthecat said:


> Reminds me of the time I at the head of the queue at the Car Insurance office and I had to ask for a Mr Rankin . Guess what I said . Think Jonathon Ross !


I did something like that too once. My boss was expecting a guy and she told me his name but apparently I was only half listening. It was "David Roy" or something like that. When they guy got there I went into her office and told her "Roy Rogers is here for you". It wasn't until I saw the look of confusion on her face and her "Who?" that I heard what I said. She didn't get it at all, being much younger than I am and never having heard of Roy Rogers!


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

No rational forum user can read sentiments like 'we should just agree to disagree without throwing toys out the pram' or 'if you don't like the way a thread is going, close it or log off' and not agree.

Such advice is sensible and I'm sure most people, upon reading it, agree wholeheartedly.

Unfortunately, some people (not all) are incapable of applying it in context because they become too emotional, or don't realise they are in a situation where aforementioned advice would apply. I've done it myself on occasion. Some users do so more often.

In life as well as the forum, some people are skilled at debate and others are not.

As for the 'rules' fiasco, the 'Terms and Rules' at the bottom of each page are the terms of service that you agree to when signing up to the forum. You will notice that they are vague and, I expect, match almost word-for-word the terms of service for pretty much every internet forum out there. They are a legal thing governing copyright and stuff. If you violate them badly enough, I suppose you could theoretically face legal action (the law bods will correct me if I am wrong).

These are not the same as the more informal 'forum rules' post that is stickied in the actual discussion forums. These are the day-to-day guidelines users must live by in order to not get banned. I don't think you'll get a lawyer phoning you up for making a leaving thread, though.

Anyone who signs up to a forum and uses exclusively the 'recent posts' function to browse threads is of course free to do so, but they have to accept they are going to miss stuff that way, some of it pertinent.

To knowingly access and use a forum via a single feature of its operation then complain that you didn't know about something plastered across the other features just makes you look like an ass.


----------



## lorilu

lorilu said:


> Because it creates silly drama. Most forums do have "I'm leaving" thread bans.
> 
> If you (general you) want to take a break and don't want people to worry, PM someone you trust about it.
> 
> If you hate the forum and want to leave, no need to make a dramatic announcement, just stop posting or coming in. Or quietly PM admin and ask your account to be deactivated.


Regarding this - Long ago there was a forum that was a busy as this one. And as contentious. The mods had it rough.

In fact there were a number of cross-members between there and here, which happened because of some drama in the other forum. A member left there, came here and others followed her because she came here (and made herself sound like a poor bullied former member of another group), and brought the drama here.

Anyway one of the things that member did, when she left PL (no longer active) was create a video of her self apologizing to us for all the lies she told and stories she made up. It was obvious though that the only thing she was really sorry for was getting caught out lol. I don't think there is anyone here regularly posting that was regular back then but I could be wrong. Some may remember. It was a long time ago and PL died out a few years ago after being a hopping place for about 15 years.

I was already a member here a the time, but didn't get involved in the drama she brought here. I don't like to cross-member myself


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> Gherkins and wellies. This thread has gone off in an interesting direction


And don't forget the stick ...... very dangerous in the wrong hands you know!










I'm another owner with just over half an acre of land half of which is enclosed by sheep fencing. My two dogs spend most of their time outside. This morning for example because they were restless due to the heat, I got up and let them both out at 4 am, and left the door open for them to come back in if they wanted to, then went back to bed and slept till nearly 8 am.

My house and land is surrounded by hundreds of acres of fields and woods but even when they're off lead they never go too far or stay away too long and I certainly don't need a shock collar to get them back


----------



## LinznMilly

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I feel like we are in a different universe - one where Wellie boots are lethal weapons and nobody has heard of specsavers


:Hilarious :Hilarious :Hilarious



kimthecat said:


> Absolutely !
> However , the Mods have closed threads to moderate etc threads and reopened them . i cant remember the name of the thread but I do know
> Linzie closed a really long one and she spent *days* reading through it ! I don't think it was closed . The current one is closed but it might re open . I dont want it closed myself .


I remember that thread only too well. It even invaded my dreams! :Wideyed . It was supposed to be the Ultimate Brexit thread. It lasted a day or so after I reopened it, then it was agreed between all of us mods that it should be closed permanently.


----------



## gskinner123

Surely I can't just be me who feels this way? With one or two exceptions (people I have become genuinely connected with, whether or not we have met in person), internet forums and all of their members are entities who 'live in' whatever device I'm using. They are not part of my life, my world, and it would simply never occur to me to feel bullied or upset by them.

As a result, I don't have the attention span to become involved in arguments (past a couple of pages of exchanges) which is just as well because in real life I am a last word freak.

I'm not really sure why I have contributed to this thread! Having read (some of) it I guess I am just truly amazed how much energy and emotion some people can invest into something that isn't... 'real' is the only word I can think of.


----------



## kimthecat

LinznMilly said:


> :Hilarious :Hilarious :Hilarious
> 
> I remember that thread only too well. It even invaded my dreams! :Wideyed . It was supposed to be the Ultimate Brexit thread. It lasted a day or so after I reopened it, then it was agreed between all of us mods that it should be closed permanently.


Oh that one ! I think you went beyond the call of duty there .  A reminder of how dedicated our Mods are !


----------



## Westie Mum

Rafa said:


> My Mother always used to say "never discuss politics, sport or religion. It will always end in a row".


And "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"



O2.0 said:


> This is a good litmus test isn't it? If it's not okay in person, it shouldn't be okay online either.


The thing is, you generally don't discuss politics with strangers in real life, do you.

Yes, between family and close friends you can often feel comfortable enough to be able to talk but generally you don't all start calling each other names and being downright nasty to each other. Whereas online people do tend to loose a sense of that and type whatever they want as they aren't endangering real friendships or loosing family.



kimthecat said:


> Linzie closed a really long one and she spent *days* reading through it !


And honestly, why should someone who spends their time and effort for free (aka being a mod) devote that much time to any one thread when *adults* cannot control themselves enough to be civil or walk away.

I like the general chat section, but personally feel that we shouldn't have politics here. People have proved time and time again they can't be nice to each other and why should mods on a pet forum have to spend that amount of time moderating them when there are hundreds of other online places to talk about politics!


----------



## MollySmith

Siskin said:


> Gherkins and wellies. This thread has gone off in an interesting direction


Mostly plant based.... I err... yeah dunno about willes though... :Wideyed:Hilarious


----------



## delca1

simplysardonic said:


> Sorry @rottiepointerhouse for going OT, this will be my last on the subject.
> 
> As mods we do have other things to do, & lives outside the forum.
> 
> 
> 
> rottiepointerhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually we haven't had a thread about pickled gherkins for a while now so perhaps we should digress in that direction layful
> 
> 
> 
> I love gherkins but now I wonder if I've been eating green willies by mistake!
> 
> 
> 
> rottiepointerhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there must be a connection somewhere - I suppose a pickled Gherkin could look a bit like a green willie in the wrong light.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## cheekyscrip

Westie Mum said:


> And "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"
> 
> The thing is, you generally don't discuss politics with strangers in real life, do you.
> 
> Yes, between family and close friends you can often feel comfortable enough to be able to talk but generally you don't all start calling each other names and being downright nasty to each other. Whereas online people do tend to loose a sense of that and type whatever they want as they aren't endangering real friendships or loosing family.
> 
> And honestly, why should someone who spends their time and effort for free (aka being a mod) devote that much time to any one thread when *adults* cannot control themselves enough to be civil or walk away.
> 
> I like the general chat section, but personally feel that we shouldn't have politics here. People have proved time and time again they can't be nice to each other and why should mods on a pet forum have to spend that amount of time moderating them when there are hundreds of other online places to talk about politics!


So let's have a political etc... subforum, not for newbies etc... who goes there goes at their own risk. I never noticed any minors contributing to those threads.

Anyone who does not want to discuss any important, contentious general topics does not have to, but why ban it for others?
Mods need not waste their time except telling the moaners that they do not have to go to any threads that might upset them!

Some members stubbornly go there just to get upset, complaining and leaving just to come back _da capo al fine.
_
I don't understand / if I avoid topics that I
know will upset me - why cannot they?
Adults?


----------



## Clive G

cheekyscrip said:


> So let's have a political etc... subforum, not for newbies etc... who goes there goes at their own risk. I never noticed any minors contributing to those threads.
> 
> Anyone who does not want to discuss any important, contentious general topics does not have to, but why ban it for others?
> Mods need not waste their time except telling the moaners that they do not have to go to anIs. U
> Some members stubbornly go there just to get upset, complaining and leaving just to come back _da capo al fine.
> _
> I don't understand / if I avoid topics that I
> know will upset me - why cannot they?
> Adults?


Because some mods know best. But they don't. They seem to get confused as to what "moderation" actually means and they think they are censors.

Less is often more, but then the mods' wouldn't have their "power"! It's pathetic really and if any mod' had a business they would actually realise how childish some of they behave. But that's what you get when don't employ professionals but ask for inexperienced amateurs to work for free.


----------



## Guest

@rottiepointerhouse I didn't know vegans can eat green willies (or any other coloured willies..)


----------



## Lurcherlad

Wish I was a mod - I could ban someone right now!


----------



## Matrod

Clive G said:


> Because some mods know best. But they don't. They seem to get confused as to what "moderation" actually means and they think they are censors.
> 
> Less is often more, but then the mods' wouldn't have their "power"! It's pathetic really and if any mod' had a business they would actually realise how childish some of they behave. But that's what you get when don't employ professionals but ask for inexperienced amateurs to work for free.


Wow you really don't like mods do you! I can assure you we are not a bunch of power crazed dictators out to suppress the forum.


----------



## kimthecat

Clive G said:


> Because some mods know best. But they don't. They seem to get confused as to what "moderation" actually means and they think they are censors.
> 
> Less is often more, but then the mods' wouldn't have their "power"! It's pathetic really and if any mod' had a business they would actually realise how childish some of they behave. But that's what you get when don't employ professionals but ask for inexperienced amateurs to work for free.


 What is pathetic is people here whinging about free speech etc This is a pet forum , not Hyde park speakers corner. It's entirely up to the owner of this forum and his representatives what is allowed to be discussed here . Is the world going to come to end if we don't discuss politics on a pet forum .I dont think so !

BTW You sound like some disgruntled ex member with an axe to grind. If you feel that strongly , you should start your own forum and discuss whatever you like.


----------



## gskinner123

I suppose forum moderation can be quite arbitrary. I could cheerfully ban someone just for being highly irritating (which is why I would make a bad moderator). There again, this conversation reminds me of the time I had a temporary ban from this forum for using a word that the BBC wouldn't give a second thought about broadcasting.


----------



## Rafa

Clive G said:


> Because some mods know best. But they don't. They seem to get confused as to what "moderation" actually means and they think they are censors.
> 
> Less is often more, but then the mods' wouldn't have their "power"! It's pathetic really and if any mod' had a business they would actually realise how childish some of they behave. But that's what you get when don't employ professionals but ask for inexperienced amateurs to work for free.


Why are you even here?

You never contribute to the forum, all you've done is criticise, yet you freely admit you have made good use of the forum for a long time, to further your own ends.

I think you have the cheek of the devil, berating the Moderators and accusing them of unsavoury practises.

What do you bring to the forum, (apart from a lot of whingeing)?


----------



## Blackadder

Matrod said:


> Wow you really don't like mods do you! I can assure you we are not a bunch of power crazed dictators out to suppress the forum.


You really shouldn't get involved... he's baiting, hoping for one of you to rise!


----------



## kimthecat

gskinner123 said:


> There again, this conversation reminds me of the time I had a temporary ban from this forum for using a word that the BBC wouldn't give a second thought about broadcasting.


They actually broadcast the c word in their sit coms. Standards are slipping !


----------



## Matrod

Blackadder said:


> You really shouldn't get involved... he's baiting, hoping for one of you to rise!


I couldn't help myself


----------



## Blackadder

Matrod said:


> I couldn't help myself


I know but grit your teeth


----------



## Calvine

lorilu said:


> You've been told. Accept it or go somewhere else.


He's like a dog with a bone!


----------



## Sacrechat

Unfortunately for moderators, I think becoming a mod could curtail their freedom of speech. If a mod has strong opinions and expresses them and then arguments break out on that thread. If a mod whose written on the thread then closes it; it leaves them wide open to accusations of this type now being discussed. The only way to avoid it is for mods to remain impartial, hence their freedom of speech is curtailed.


----------



## Matrod

Blackadder said:


> I know but grit your teeth


I'll go back to my pot of tea & biscuits now :Angelic


----------



## Blackadder

Matrod said:


> I'll go back to my pot of tea & biscuits now :Angelic


Hope they're Hobnobs?


----------



## Matrod

Blackadder said:


> Hope they're Hobnobs?


Ewww no, homemade nut butter biscuits, I'm obsessed with them at the moment!


----------



## bordie

Blackadder said:


> Hope they're Hobnobs?


they are all nobs


----------



## SusieRainbow

Matrod said:


> Ewww no, homemade nut butter biscuits, I'm obsessed with them at the moment!


Oooohh yum, a whole *pot* of nut butter biscuits, I've dribbled all over the keyboard !


----------



## Clive G

kimthecat said:


> What is pathetic is people here whinging about free speech etc This is a pet forum , not Hyde park corner. It's entirely up to the owner of this forum and his representatives what is allowed to be discussed here . Is the world going to come to end if we don't discuss politics on a pet forum .I dont think so !
> 
> BTW You sound like some disgruntled ex member with an axe to grind. If you feel that strongly , you should start your own forum and discuss whatever you like.


Not at all. Just someone who has a problem with the child like moderating a forum that's aimed at adults. Moderation is just that and nothing more.



Rafa said:


> Why are you even here?
> 
> You never contribute to the forum, all you've done is criticise, yet you freely admit you have made good use of the forum for a long time, to further your own ends.
> 
> I think you have the cheek of the devil, berating the Moderators and accusing them of unsavoury practises.
> 
> What do you bring to the forum, (apart from a lot of whingeing)?


I've added very little to the forum (hopefully though given the mods' something to think about, although I doubt it)

I've been a reader for many years though.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Clive G said:


> Not at all. Just someone who has a problem with the child like moderating a forum that's aimed at adults. Moderation is just that and nothing more.
> 
> I've added very little to the forum (hopefully though given the mods' something to think about, although I doubt it)
> 
> I've been a reader for many years though.


I'm finding you incredibly rude and patronising.


----------



## Rafa

Clive G said:


> I've been a reader for many years though.


Exactly.

You clearly find the forum useful, yet have done nothing but criticise.

I don't understand why, if you find the moderating style so irritating, you continue to log in?


----------



## Blackadder

Let teeth gritting commence  Don't be lured in to the obvious baiting.... please!


----------



## SusieRainbow

Blackadder said:


> Let teeth gritting commence  Don't be lured in to the obvious baiting.... please!


I've got a better idea.


----------



## Rafa

DO IT SUSIE!!!


----------



## lorilu

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm finding you incredibly rude and patronising.


I'm sure he is making every effort to be so, and is thrilled that he is succeeding. He's just trolling. Why not get rid of him. Trolling isn't allowed here. I'm sure he read it in the rules.


----------



## delca1

Can someone explain why my post on page 10 only shows the quotes and not my added comments? Has it been censored


----------



## SusieRainbow

Ta-da-a-a-a


----------



## lorilu

Sacremist said:


> Unfortunately for moderators, I think becoming a mod could curtail their freedom of speech. If a mod has strong opinions and expresses them and then arguments break out on that thread. If a mod whose written on the thread then closes it; it leaves them wide open to accusations of this type now being discussed. The only way to avoid it is for mods to remain impartial, hence their freedom of speech is curtailed.


Nah, that's not right. Mods are members and are entitled to their opinions like everyone else. Yes, they need to abide by the rules, but they are certainly stil allowed to be themselves.


----------



## stuaz

Can someone actually give a specific situation where a mod has "abused there power"?

Rather than just all this passive aggressive nonsense about "free speech".

Maybe if a specific example was given it can be discussed like adults?


----------



## lorilu

delca1 said:


> Can someone explain why my post on page 10 only shows the quotes and not my added comments? Has it been censored


Did you post inside the quotes by accident? That happens sometimes.


----------



## Blackadder

> I've got a better idea.


I quite like that idea


----------



## simplysardonic

delca1 said:


> Can someone explain why my post on page 10 only shows the quotes and not my added comments? Has it been censored


I'm not sure what you did there either!


----------



## lorilu

Clive G said:


> I've been a reader for many years though.


Back to being a "reader" for you. lol


----------



## Matrod

Sacremist said:


> Unfortunately for moderators, I think becoming a mod could curtail their freedom of speech. If a mod has strong opinions and expresses them and then arguments break out on that thread. If a mod whose written on the thread then closes it; it leaves them wide open to accusations of this type now being discussed. The only way to avoid it is for mods to remain impartial, hence their freedom of speech is curtailed.


Becoming a mod hasn't changed that for me, obviously I abide by the rules along everyone else but if I've got a view or opinion then I'll state it regardless.


----------



## SusieRainbow

delca1 said:


> Can someone explain why my post on page 10 only shows the quotes and not my added comments? Has it been censored


I never saw any comment, just the quote. If it had been edited there would be a note to that effect.


----------



## Guest

I think being boring and repetitive is a very good reason for banning.

I agree with @kimthecat that @Clive G is a bitter ex of member that was banned and got a beef with the mods and now using the forum rules and patience to bore us all to death..


----------



## SusieRainbow

There I go , abusing my position. Power crazy, me.


----------



## lorilu

Whiteshadow said:


> I think being boring and repetitive is a very good reason for banning.
> 
> I agree with @kimthecat that @Clive G is a bitter ex of member that was banned and got a beef with the mods and now using the forum rules and patience to bore us all to death..


rofl


----------



## Matrod

SusieRainbow said:


> There I go , abusing my position. Power crazy, me.


Now I've told you before not to let the power go to your head & here you are out of control again


----------



## Sacrechat

lorilu said:


> Nah, that's not right. Mods are members and are entitled to their opinions like everyone else. Yes, they need to abide by the rules, but they are certainly stil allowed to be themselves.


I didn't say they weren't entitled to their opinions, I said it leaves them open to accusations like this.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Matrod said:


> Now I've told you before not to let the power go to your head & here you are out of control again


----------



## delca1

simplysardonic said:


> I'm not sure what you did there either!


My comment didn't show so I tried to edit it but nothing changed. You're not very helpful to me, in fact your reply is just like my son's when I ask for help but his reply contains bad language  I think my laptop hates me....

(before I get horrendously shouted at by everyone saying simplysardonic is unhelpful is just a joke )


----------



## Boxerluver30

Thank you @SusieRainbow I was getting annoyed just reading those posts. 

Think that was a classic example of someone needing to step away from the keyboard and calm down!


----------



## lorilu

Sacremist said:


> I didn't say they weren't entitled to their opinions, I said it leaves them open to accusations like this.


Okay, right. But being open to accusation, who cares, really? I am sure they know it comes with the position. There are always some who are going to complain about something a mod does. I think the mods here are terrific, but that doesn't mean I always like what they choose to do. I don't always, in fact. But It's their job to do what they see fit, whether someone likes it or not.


----------



## lorilu

Boxerluver30 said:


> Thank you @SusieRainbow I was getting annoyed just reading those posts.
> 
> Think that was a classic example of someone needing to step away from the keyboard and calm down!


Nah it wasn't. It was a troll, deliberately baiting anyone who would take the bait.

I think @kimthecat and @Whiteshadow have it right. Old member back to make trouble. Pfft...lets talk about something else. He's still getting too much attention. And probably still enjoying it.


----------



## simplysardonic

delca1 said:


> My comment didn't show so I tried to edit it but nothing changed. You're not very helpful to me, in fact your reply is just like my son's when I ask for help but his reply contains bad language  I think my laptop hates me....
> 
> (before I get horrendously shouted at by everyone saying simplysardonic is unhelpful is just a joke )


Don't worry, mine hates me too


----------



## Boxerluver30

Anyway Gherkins?! Blegh :Wtf (sorry if this post offends any gherkin lovers )


----------



## Guest

On a lighter note sorry mods. Guesseing game anybody?


----------



## lorilu

Pappychi said:


> Kinda.
> 
> Best way to eat them is with a warm baguette and chicken pate (or mushroom for the veggies out there! That's also delicious!).


Well I like my pickles wrapped in a bit of cheese. YUM. I call it Cheese Pickle.



Boxerluver30 said:


> Anyway Gherkins?! Blegh :Wtf (sorry if this post offends any gherkin lovers )


See above


----------



## Guest

Boxerluver30 said:


> Anyway Gherkins?! Blegh :Wtf (sorry if this post offends any gherkin lovers )


I do love those.


----------



## Blackadder

lorilu said:


> Well I like my pickles wrapped in a bit of cheese. YUM. I call it Cheese Pickle.


I tried the same with Mrs BA, it didn't go well


----------



## Siskin

Boxerluver30 said:


> Anyway Gherkins?! Blegh :Wtf (sorry if this post offends any gherkin lovers )


Can't stand gherkins either (apologies to the gherkin lovers), however willies...........


----------



## gskinner123

kimthecat said:


> They actually broadcast the c word in their sit coms. Standards are slipping !


I missed a word out of my post! It should have said BBC News!


----------



## simplysardonic

Sorry but all you lovers of anything pickled on here.... you're all just monsters:Wtf


----------



## Siskin

simplysardonic said:


> Sorry but all you lovers of anything pickled on here.... you're all just monsters:Wtf


Totally agree. Fancy eating fermented stuff, weird I call it


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Does anyone remember 'Stoppit and Tidyup'?

Gherkins were an integral part of the plot. They were rather funky colours, though.

Fun fact: the names of the characters were all things a moderator would say.


----------



## Matrod

What is it with this forum & gherkins :Hilarious leave any thread running long enough & the chances are a gherkin discussion will happen at some point.


----------



## Boxerluver30

You lot comparing gherkins to willies, I'll never look at them the same again! :Wtf:Wtf:Wtf


----------



## cheekyscrip

kimthecat said:


> What is pathetic is people here whinging about free speech etc This is a pet forum , not Hyde park speakers corner. It's entirely up to the owner of this forum and his representatives what is allowed to be discussed here . Is the world going to come to end if we don't discuss politics on a pet forum .I dont think so !
> 
> BTW You sound like some disgruntled ex member with an axe to grind. If you feel that strongly , you should start your own forum and discuss whatever you like.


Why but why if there is nothing in the rules that certain topics are not allowed then any person or clique should then be so arrogant and presumptious as to decide what can and cannot be discussed? 
What for donkey years was allowed? Like politics?
Till dear Brexit farce.

I am here since Feb 2010. Seen many mods, many cliques, many bans.

Never till Brexit farce I saw so many threads closed and long time members, who contributed so much to this forum, whose only fault was that they bowed to no one and had their opinion - banned. Not for a day but forever.

I don't care what their political allegiances were if they really made effort to keep this place full of great threads.

Now I see more petty and petulant members given the ear.

I am afraid Mods giving in to those just encourage more and more complaints instead of telling them to avoid topics too upsetting for their delicate mental balance.

I am sorry, but if a grown up person puts hand into the fire and cries that it gets burnt just to repeat this experience it does not mean we cannot have fireplaces anymore.

Mods are not responsible for anyone being irrational or plain silly.

They are not nannies, police or therapists.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Clive G said:


> Because some mods know best. But they don't. They seem to get confused as to what "moderation" actually means and they think they are censors.
> 
> Less is often more, but then the mods' wouldn't have their "power"! It's pathetic really and if any mod' had a business they would actually realise how childish some of they behave. But that's what you get when don't employ professionals but ask for inexperienced amateurs to work for free.


Why don't you jog on. Oh wait I see you did.



Siskin said:


> Can't stand gherkins either (apologies to the gherkin lovers), however willies...........


:Jawdrop:Jawdrop



Matrod said:


> What is it with this forum & gherkins :Hilarious leave any thread running long enough & the chances are a gherkin discussion will happen at some point.


If not gherkins goats. Which is better. ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT



Boxerluver30 said:


> You lot comparing gherkins to willies, I'll never look at them the same again! :Wtf:Wtf:Wtf


Now young lady I think you have a very dirty mind, I already said it was Wellies not Willies. Next time you put your foot in your wellie be careful what you find :Woot

Has anyone else noticed :Troll:Troll:Troll this green troll seems to have something familiar about its face


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

rottiepointerhouse said:


> If not gherkins goats. Which is better. ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Boxerluver30 said:


> You lot comparing gherkins to willies, I'll never look at them the same again! :Wtf:Wtf:Wtf


Wait, which one???


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Whiteshadow said:


> @rottiepointerhouse I didn't know vegans can eat green willies (or any other coloured willies..)


There may be lots you don't know about vegans and willies :Woot:Woot


----------



## MollySmith

rottiepointerhouse said:


> There may be lots you don't know about vegans and willies :Woot:Woot


Hahahaha!! :Hilarious


----------



## Boxerluver30

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Wait, which one???


Well considering I don't see the latter... just read my post back though and saw it could be taken either way oops . I'm not that bad I swear


----------



## Guest

rottiepointerhouse said:


> There may be lots you don't know about vegans and willies :Woot:Woot


Food for thought (and other things)...


----------



## kimthecat

gskinner123 said:


> I missed a word out of my post! It should have said BBC News!


 What was the word? It wasn't an off camera remark was it ?


----------



## MollySmith

_"Don't feed the trolls" is a maxim many live by online. "There's no benefit to it. You're not going to be able to change anybody's mind," says Dr John Synnott, senior lecturer in investigative and forensic psychology at the University of Huddersfield. "There is no talking back to someone when they have made their decision." But as Sarah Jeong, a tech journalist who will join the New York Times in September recently discovered, saying you'll take a vow of silence is easier than actually keeping it. Her decision to fight fire with ironic fire backfired as trolls piled in, taking her joking responses to insults out of context in an attempt to get her into trouble with her new employers. She's not unique.

"Online context lends itself to being ruthlessly decontextualised so that all we get is a single incriminating picture, tweet or post and everyone judges an entire person's worth and character on that one snapshot," says Dr Claire Hardaker, a senior lecturer in linguistics at Lancaster University, who has researched trolls._

From this link where I have learned about astroturfing and sea lioning  It's like an art form for people who have nothing better to do!


----------



## kimthecat

All this talk about gherkins and willies ! 
What about mandy and her melons


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> All this talk about gherkins and willies !
> What about mandy and her melons


That brings back memories of Saturday night TV in our house. He was my favourite as a kid.


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> That brings back memories of Saturday night TV in our house. He was my favourite as a kid.


Yeah , and Stanley Baxter .:Hilarious More funnier than Benny hill . They wouldn't go down well today . Too non- PC


----------



## O2.0

OMG I'm trying to get caught up on this thread, getting really annoyed with a now banned member, and came across this:


lorilu said:


> Shut. UP.


And seriously laughed out loud. Thank you @lorilu 
My mind immediately went here 









Okay, only on page 8 LOL!


----------



## kimthecat

delca1 said:


> Can someone explain why my post on page 10 only shows the quotes and not my added comments? Has it been censored


You might have accidentally deleted your comments when you edited it ?
ETA I just saw your other post . you said your post didn't show in the first place. I expect you made a mistake somewhere . Mods always tell you if they have edited your post. .


----------



## cheekyscrip

MollySmith said:


> _"Don't feed the trolls" is a maxim many live by online. "There's no benefit to it. You're not going to be able to change anybody's mind," says Dr John Synnott, senior lecturer in investigative and forensic psychology at the University of Huddersfield. "There is no talking back to someone when they have made their decision." But as Sarah Jeong, a tech journalist who will join the New York Times in September recently discovered, saying you'll take a vow of silence is easier than actually keeping it. Her decision to fight fire with ironic fire backfired as trolls piled in, taking her joking responses to insults out of context in an attempt to get her into trouble with her new employers. She's not unique.
> 
> "Online context lends itself to being ruthlessly decontextualised so that all we get is a single incriminating picture, tweet or post and everyone judges an entire person's worth and character on that one snapshot," says Dr Claire Hardaker, a senior lecturer in linguistics at Lancaster University, who has researched trolls._
> 
> From this link where I have learned about astroturfing and sea lioning  It's like an art form for people who have nothing better to do!


I like the "sea lionining"! It is a classic tactic of one of our most devoted trolls ...

It would be very interesting if we actually could have those individuals properly assessed - their personality profile etc...
What makes them look for that kind of " entertainment " - what empty place it fills?
State sponsored trolls have the obvious motivation.
Trolls are plain bored but there is much more to " sea lions ". Bit like with sects etc...
I think nowadays Mods should have actually some training not to fall into those traps...

Maybe this link is a good idea? Mods too should not feed even the most concerned trolls who want to ban this and that topic " for the good of the forum " , of course not because they might have lost a debate, or simply facts go against their beloved beliefs?

The Earth is flat.


----------



## O2.0

Matrod said:


> What is it with this forum & gherkins :Hilarious leave any thread running long enough & the chances are a gherkin discussion will happen at some point.


But no baby pigeons! I'm so disappointed. Where is @Pappychi with her baby pigeon pictures? And bra-less runs to the store for chocolate in a shirt that says something about not wanting a boyfriend? :Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

O2.0 said:


> OMG I'm trying to get caught up on this thread, getting really annoyed with a now banned member, and came across this:
> 
> And seriously laughed out loud. Thank you @lorilu
> My mind immediately went here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, only on page 8 LOL!


Yes that was the best post in the thread!


----------



## kimthecat

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Yes that was the best post in the thread!


Simple and succinct. I loved the emphasis on the UP bit !


----------



## SusieRainbow

cheekyscrip said:


> I like the "sea lionining"! It is a classic tactic of one of our most devoted trolls ...
> 
> It would be very interesting if we actually could have those individuals properly assessed - their personality profile etc...
> What makes them look for that kind of " entertainment " - what empty place it fills?
> State sponsored trolls have the obvious motivation.
> Trolls are plain bored but there is much more to " sea lions ". Bit like with sects etc...
> I think nowadays Mods should have actually some training not to fall into those traps...


I am getting very tired of your criticism of the moderators at every opportunity !
Did you put your name forward when mods were being recruited ? I didn't see it.
What traps are we falling into ?


----------



## Westie Mum

cheekyscrip said:


> I never noticed any minors contributing to those threads.


But how would you know if they are children or not ? I could be a 12 year old boy for all you know  (I'm not but who really knows who anyone is online)

And as adults, surely we should be setting a better example rather than threads being rampaged by keyboard warriors. As a mother of 4 we spent countless hours every week back in the MSN messenger days, reading our kids chat logs to ensure that online behaviour was the same as the behaviour we expected in real life. If one of our children behaved in the manner some of the members speak to each other on the brexit threads, I'd be mortified.

Yes on the odd occasion things get a bit heated in dog chat, but not to the levels any of the brexit threads end up. I've been genuinely gobsmacked at some of the things I've read on the last thread in particular ..... we know from experience the threads will end up the same, so why allow it ?

It's PetForums ..... not freedomofspeech.com


----------



## Westie Mum

kimthecat said:


> BTW You sound like some disgruntled ex member with an axe to grind


Agreed ..... a bit sad really


----------



## Pappychi

O2.0 said:


> But no baby pigeons! I'm so disappointed. Where is @Pappychi with her baby pigeon pictures? And bra-less runs to the store for chocolate in a shirt that says something about not wanting a boyfriend? :Hilarious:Hilarious


Oh I have one of them now!

A boyfriend that is


----------



## O2.0

Pappychi said:


> Oh I have one of them now!
> 
> A boyfriend that is


Well darn... How are you going to regale us with stories of your run to the store attire?

I mean... Woo hoo! So happy for you!


----------



## Linda Weasel

OMG.
I've been away for a few days to find this! Obviously I missed something.
What on earth is going on here; I admit that I read most (but not all) of the posts on here and I don't get it? 
As far as Im concerned this is a pet forum ( I don't really do the general chat cos I have friends, relatives, work colleagues etc for that) and the purpose is to bounce around ideas, swap tips, share knowledge and help people who are just starting out.
My mantra for anything on line is; if you wouldn't say it to somebody' s face then it's not clever to hide behind anonymity to be able to say things you couldn't normally.
I imagine that few of the people on here actually know one another, so why all the big reactions . If somebody I didn't know came up to me on the street and made an outrageously rude or uncalled for comment I would ignore them, on the basis that they don't know my life, my family, my dog, so their opinion really doesn't matter and they must be a d#ck. They may not be but that's the face they've presented to me so that's my judgement of them. That also is my perogative as long as I keep it to myself.
Rude, condescending and belittling replies aren't helpful. If you can't get your point across without doing this than your point is unworthy of discussion. The least convincing argument for anything is 'I'll abuse them verbally, they'll go away and I win'.
As far as the brexit/political discussions which this seems to more about...If you wouldn't say it, face to face in a bar, in that tone, to a big bloke who holds different views to you, then don't post it online .
Yes there are Newbies appear on here. Mostly they don't want to be told they're stupid, or that they've made a mistake.....they already know that. They are often in a last resort situation and desperate. It just means they don't come back for the answers which may be just what they need.
Honestly, this is a forum, please don't be horrible to people (as you wouldn't do so in life?). We all have strong opinions about some thing but we are all I'm sure, old enough and educated enough to conduct ourselves with civility.

PLEASE!!!


----------



## Pappychi

O2.0 said:


> Well darn... How are you going to regale us with stories of your run to the store attire?
> 
> I mean... Woo hoo! So happy for you!


I went to the store recently and forgot I only had a bra on with a jacket over the top!


----------



## O2.0

Pappychi said:


> I went to the store recently and forgot I only had a bra on with a jacket over the top!


Ah much better now 

At least you were wearing a bra!!


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> OMG I'm trying to get caught up on this thread, getting really annoyed with a now banned member, and came across this:
> 
> And seriously laughed out loud. Thank you @lorilu
> My mind immediately went here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, only on page 8 LOL!


Yes indeed. One of my favorite scenes, too.x


----------



## lorilu

Westie Mum said:


> But how would you know if they are children or not ? I could be a 12 year old boy for all you know  (I'm not but who really knows who anyone is online)
> 
> *And as adults, surely we should be setting a better example rather than threads being rampaged by keyboard warriors.* As a mother of 4 we spent countless hours every week back in the MSN messenger days, reading our kids chat logs to ensure that online behaviour was the same as the behaviour we expected in real life. If one of our children behaved in the manner some of the members speak to each other on the brexit threads, I'd be mortified.
> 
> Yes on the odd occasion things get a bit heated in dog chat, but not to the levels any of the brexit threads end up. I've been genuinely gobsmacked at some of the things I've read on the last thread in particular ..... we know from experience the threads will end up the same, so why allow it ?
> 
> It's PetForums ..... not freedomofspeech.com


Actually I think it's the parents' responsibility to be sure kids don't read inappropriate things (as you described yourself), not the members'. Kids are allowed but it's the parent's job to decide if this forum is appropriate for the kid, not us.


----------



## Westie Mum

lorilu said:


> Actually I think it's the parents' responsibility to be sure kids don't read inappropriate things (as you described yourself), not the members'. Kids are allowed but it's the parent's job to decide if this forum is appropriate for the kid, not us.


I agree it is a parents responsibility but many parents don't.

And to be fair if my kids used a site called PetForums and when checked were posting pics of our dogs it wouldn't have bothered me really .... but I wouldn't expect them to be subjected to the content of the brexit threads, which are freely available for any child to read, even if they aren't logged in as a member (although aware there's lots on the internet kids can see but shouldn't!).

In an ideal world the political threads could continue for those wanting them. But we don't live in an ideal world .... and to be fair, those participating have been asked many many times to keep it civil, yet they don't.

Every aspect of life has "rules". You don't follow them, then you are punished, one way or another ..... so why should this be any different ?


----------



## cheekyscrip

Westie Mum said:


> But how would you know if they are children or not ? I could be a 12 year old boy for all you know  (I'm not but who really knows who anyone is online)
> 
> And as adults, surely we should be setting a better example rather than threads being rampaged by keyboard warriors. As a mother of 4 we spent countless hours every week back in the MSN messenger days, reading our kids chat logs to ensure that online behaviour was the same as the behaviour we expected in real life. If one of our children behaved in the manner some of the members speak to each other on the brexit threads, I'd be mortified.
> 
> Yes on the odd occasion things get a bit heated in dog chat, but not to the levels any of the brexit threads end up. I've been genuinely gobsmacked at some of the things I've read on the last thread in particular ..... we know from experience the threads will end up the same, so why allow it ?
> 
> It's PetForums ..... not freedomofspeech.com


Nothing in rules not to allow it. 
I can tell posts written by a kid from ten paces ... First of all hardly probable they will contribute to certain topics, though maybe older teens should actually be aware of the impact on their future.


----------



## Burmesemum

Sigh of relief to me that the MODS have stepped up on this one. I left a while ago as I was fed up of the constant bickering and fighting on here. It got to the point members couldn't start a thread without someone jumping in with 'advice' which was basically just having a go and then others wading in and the poor member disappearing. Well done MODS we needed to stop the bullying I say.


----------



## Westie Mum

cheekyscrip said:


> though maybe older teens should actually be aware of the impact on their future.


Yes maybe they should, but by people that behave in an adult manner with actual facts, not what they think is going to happen, whilst belittling others and bullying.

History has already proved on this site members discussing politics cannot control themselves and behave like adults though .....


----------



## Boxerluver30

I wouldn't like to see the general chat section gotten rid of completely, as even though I use this place primarily to look at the dog/cat sections I like being able to talk about other topics too. Most forums have a GC section although this ones is definitely bigger than I've seen on others.

Politics is a tough one though I think, maybe a sub-section could be tried out, see if that would work? It does seem to really get peoples backs up which obviously if that then seeps into other sections through bad feelings can create a bad atmosphere. I'd like to think everyone would just leave those feelings at the door but that's not always the case. TBH I wouldn't blame the mods for banning politics completely on here if these reports carry on


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Linda Weasel said:


> OMG.
> I've been away for a few days to find this! Obviously I missed something.
> What on earth is going on here; I admit that I read most (but not all) of the posts on here and I don't get it?
> As far as Im concerned this is a pet forum ( I don't really do the general chat cos I have friends, relatives, work colleagues etc for that) and the purpose is to bounce around ideas, swap tips, share knowledge and help people who are just starting out.
> My mantra for anything on line is; if you wouldn't say it to somebody' s face then it's not clever to hide behind anonymity to be able to say things you couldn't normally.
> I imagine that few of the people on here actually know one another, so why all the big reactions . If somebody I didn't know came up to me on the street and made an outrageously rude or uncalled for comment I would ignore them, on the basis that they don't know my life, my family, my dog, so their opinion really doesn't matter and they must be a d#ck. They may not be but that's the face they've presented to me so that's my judgement of them. That also is my perogative as long as I keep it to myself.
> Rude, condescending and belittling replies aren't helpful. If you can't get your point across without doing this than your point is unworthy of discussion. The least convincing argument for anything is 'I'll abuse them verbally, they'll go away and I win'.
> As far as the brexit/political discussions which this seems to more about...If you wouldn't say it, face to face in a bar, in that tone, to a big bloke who holds different views to you, then don't post it online .
> Yes there are Newbies appear on here. Mostly they don't want to be told they're stupid, or that they've made a mistake.....they already know that. They are often in a last resort situation and desperate. It just means they don't come back for the answers which may be just what they need.
> Honestly, this is a forum, please don't be horrible to people (as you wouldn't do so in life?). We all have strong opinions about some thing but we are all I'm sure, old enough and educated enough to conduct ourselves with civility.
> 
> PLEASE!!!


Yes I think you obviously missed the goings on that caused me to start this thread. I'm really happy you have friends/relatives and work colleagues but spend some time in General Chat and you will appreciate there are lots of members who don't have those support networks or outlets. We've all got very different reasons for using the forum it just so happens we all love animals (or hopefully we do). There are many retired members, disabled or in ill health members, people who live alone and those like me who work from home and are not into socialising. I think its easy to say its just a forum and not real life but for some people it is a significant part of their life and one of the few places they can discuss topics that they wouldn't or can't in real life. I think we are all guilty of being sharp at times and its good to have these sort of discussions where we air grievances rather than letting them fester and turn into such a negative undercurrent that the bickering becomes disruptive to other users which has been going on recently. None of us want to see members feeling they are being ganged up on or that there is a behind the scenes campaign against them. That is more the sort of issue I'm referring to with this thread rather than a newbie getting a few sharp comments.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Westie Mum said:


> Yes maybe they should, but by people that behave in an adult manner with actual facts, not what they think is going to happen, whilst belittling others and bullying.
> 
> History has already proved on this site members discussing politics cannot control themselves and behave like adults though .....


History of pf proved that they cannot on s dog chat either, reason I post there rarely now. 
Quite recently " concerned trolls" were bullying someone because they took the dog to a behaviorist or because they took a dog for group walk.
Trolls are trolls.

Same members anyhow!!!

It is easy to have political sub forum as we others and if anyone moans then could be taken off it if cannot take it.

If anyone finds it not to their taste then might easily avoid it.

It will be not available to newbies to avoid trolls and inocentes.

Why anyone should give themselves right to tell others what they could discuss?

This forum lasted for about 12 years and until the Brexit farce there was no issues with social/political topics more than usual overheating which happens in all sections?

I have impression and prove me wrong tat those who demand to ban political chat do it just because they do not feel at ease after voting to Leave and now seeing how the reality pans out.

Until 2016 they had no problems with any topics as such.

We live in very tumultuous times. Do you think that gagging orders will make it better?

Else just get rid of General Chat. 
Just pet talk and no more.
With all consequences.


----------



## O2.0

Westie Mum said:


> History has already proved on this site members discussing politics cannot control themselves and behave like adults though .....


A lot of teenagers I know are much more adept at having conversations about controversial, emotive subjects in a much more adult manner than some of the examples I see in the Brexit and political threads. Some adults here could learn a lesson or two from teens.


----------



## cheekyscrip

O2.0 said:


> A lot of teenagers I know are much more adept at having conversations about controversial, emotive subjects in a much more adult manner than some of the examples I see in the Brexit and political threads. Some adults here could learn a lesson or two from teens.


Totally agree. I also see it as positive it they participate in such important discussions.
I was involved in political movement from the age of 14. My own choice, parents had no idea. 
I wish 16 plus had right to vote.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Why, when moderation of threads is performed, is it called 'gagging' and 'censorship' ? If statements or comments are insulting or in any way offensive or upsetting to others they will be deleted. If everyone said whatever came into their head there would be chaos.
What happened to tact, diplomacy , regard for other peoples' opinions and feelings ?

https://www.petforums.co.uk/help/terms


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

The thing is, 'free speech' is not relevant or appropriate in every situation.

You wouldn't (or at least shouldn't, IMO) exercise your right to discuss certain contentious topics at your child's nursery, at a wedding, in the supermarket. Not to the extent that we see on here with tempers raised, and insults flying. Maybe a forum about pets isn't the place either?

I have nothing against the political threads on here personally. I sometimes read them and have occasionally posted in them - but for heaven's sake, if they're causing that much drama, a forum about pets doesn't *actually* need them, does it?

And I don't say that because I think people shouldn't be allowed to discuss these topics. It's because I don't necessarily think they should be allowed to discuss them wherever and whenever the hell they want, damn the consequences.

It's not banning free speech as people are welcome to use the hundreds of other outlets instead. This is not the only forum on the internet.

There is as much self-control needed in choosing the time and place for your battles as there is in partaking in them.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Ceiling Kitty said:


> The thing is, 'free speech' is not relevant or appropriate in every situation.
> 
> You wouldn't (or at least shouldn't, IMO) exercise your right to discuss certain contentious topics at your child's nursery, at a wedding, in the supermarket. Not to the extent that we see on here with tempers raised, and insults flying. Maybe a forum about pets isn't the place either?
> 
> I have nothing against the political threads on here personally. I sometimes read them and have occasionally posted in them - but for heaven's sake, if they're causing that much drama, a forum about pets doesn't *actually* need them, does it?
> 
> And I don't say that because I think people shouldn't be allowed to discuss these topics. It's because I don't necessarily think they shouldn't be allowed to discuss them wherever and whenever the hell they want, damn the consequences.
> 
> It's not banning free speech as people are welcome to use the hundreds of other outlets instead. This is not the only forum on the internet.
> 
> There is as much self-control needed in choosing the time and place for your battles as there is in partaking in them.


Exactly what I was trying to get across, but you've said it so much better !
Here, have a vitual 'rep' *


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

SusieRainbow said:


> What happened to tact, diplomacy , regard for other peoples' opinions and feelings ?


I think the stock response is something along the lines of, 'I just say it how it is, I'm a straight talker and if you don't like it you don't have to read it.'

The last bit is true, on a forum you don't have to read it. I'd agree with that.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

cheekyscrip said:


> History of pf proved that they cannot on s dog chat either, reason I post there rarely now.
> Quite recently " concerned trolls" were bullying someone because they took the dog to a behaviorist or because they took a dog for group walk.
> Trolls are trolls.
> 
> Same members anyhow!!!
> 
> It is easy to have political sub forum as we others and if anyone moans then could be taken off it if cannot take it.
> 
> If anyone finds it not to their taste then might easily avoid it.
> 
> It will be not available to newbies to avoid trolls and inocentes.
> 
> Why anyone should give themselves right to tell others what they could discuss?
> 
> This forum lasted for about 12 years and until the Brexit farce there was no issues with social/political topics more than usual overheating which happens in all sections?
> 
> *I have impression and prove me wrong tat those who demand to ban political chat do it just because they do not feel at ease after voting to Leave and now seeing how the reality pans out. *
> 
> Until 2016 they had no problems with any topics as such.
> 
> We live in very tumultuous times. Do you think that gagging orders will make it better?
> 
> Else just get rid of General Chat.
> Just pet talk and no more.
> With all consequences.


Not necessarily, I voted to leave, I wouldn't vote to leave if we had another vote, I hope with do get another say and if we do I will change my vote to remain but that has nothing to do with me not taking part in the recent B threads. I stopped because I found them futile, divisive and destructive. I didn't much like the way that people were talking to each other, me included. It worries me when I see people who I know have serious health issues getting so worked up and upset.


----------



## Boxerluver30

O2.0 said:


> A lot of teenagers I know are much more adept at having conversations about controversial, emotive subjects in a much more adult manner than some of the examples I see in the Brexit and political threads. Some adults here could learn a lesson or two from teens.


I think a good example of this is @winterrose . She is only 14 if (IIRC) but shows miles more maturity than some adults on here and in real life . I honestly thought she was closer to my age when I first started chatting to her on here. And whilst I don't want to compare people like you say some lessons could be learnt here


----------



## kimthecat

cheekyscrip said:


> This forum lasted for about 12 years and until the Brexit farce there was no issues with social/political topics more than usual overheating which happens in all sections?


How would you know , you haven't been here for 12 years or did you used to be someone else?



> I have impression and prove me wrong tat those who demand to ban political chat do it just because they do not feel at ease after voting to Leave and now seeing how the reality pans out.


Why should we have to prove you wrong , You're the one who made the suggestion . Who voted brexit and took part in the brexit thread and asked for a ban ? I didn't. A lot of people who voted brexit and took part in the earlier discussion left ages ago because of the nastiness .
The political threads arent all about Brexit !

RPH started this thread to ask that threads aren't closed , not the same as banning .


----------



## SusieRainbow

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I think the stock response is something along the lines of, 'I just say it how it is, I'm a straight talker and if you don't like it you don't have to read it.'
> 
> The last bit is true, on a forum you don't have to read it. I'd agree with that.


Unfortunately we mods DO have to read it when we get reports of offensive comments. I know that's part of the job , and not really complaining (much!) but as I said earlier, these political threas are taking up more of our time and resources than the rest of the sub-forums put together.


----------



## lorilu

Westie Mum said:


> History has already proved on this site members discussing politics cannot control themselves and behave like adults though ..


That's not specific to this forum. That's the way it is the world over, In real life as well as the internet.


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> A lot of teenagers I know are much more adept at having conversations about controversial, emotive subjects in a much more adult manner than some of the examples I see in the Brexit and political threads. Some adults here could learn a lesson or two from teens.


Well sure, that's what teens do, Rap and solve the world. Then they grow up and become adults, though.


----------



## O2.0

SusieRainbow said:


> Why, when moderation of threads is performed, is it called 'gagging' and 'censorship' ? If statements or comments are insulting or in any way offensive or upsetting to others they will be deleted. If everyone said whatever came into their head there would be chaos.
> What happened to tact, diplomacy , regard for other peoples' opinions and feelings ?


To be fair, only one person is calling moderation "censorship" and I think most of us find that a silly comparison. Sorry, but it is. 
As you well know I don't always agree with moderation decisions, but no, it's not censorship. If anything some posters are in a way protected from themselves because their worst offensive posts are quickly deleted, and most members have no idea how nasty they got. So now when the members who did see the very nasty post(s) react badly, they're seen as overreacting, but there was a lot more going on than is now visible on the forum.



Ceiling Kitty said:


> I think the stock response is something along the lines of, 'I just say it how it is, I'm a straight talker and if you don't like it you don't have to read it.'


My friend posted the best thing on FB the other day about people like this. Something along the lines of those who say "I'm just blunt and honest, I call it like I see it" etc., should by averages be blatantly kind and complimentary as well, yet somehow their straight talking honesty doesn't extend to "wow, you're a really awesome person" only to "wow you're really an idiot aren't you." Almost as if the "honesty" badge is just a licence to be an asshat. 
She said it much better than me, but I do find it interesting how these straight talkers never seem to have complimentary outbursts....


----------



## StormyThai

cheekyscrip said:


> I have impression and prove me wrong tat those who demand to ban political chat do it just because they do not feel at ease after voting to Leave and now seeing how the reality pans out.


You are wrong...for one, not a single member has demanded to ban political chat!


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Look, while I may not agree, I do get what people are saying.

One school of thought is that these discussions are exercising free speech and the reason they keep getting closed is censorship by the moderating team because they are getting complaints about the threads, sometimes from the same 'oversensitive' users.

Who is to blame in that scenario?

Is it the mods, for editing/closing the threads and censoring free speech? But isn't that their role? If not, what is their role for a political thread attracting reports from users? Ignore it? Go in and say 'calm down people' only to be ignored themselves?

Or is it the 'oversensitive' users who complain? They shouldn't be on those threads, right? But they are, and they keep engaging themselves in such topics again and again. How does one stop them starting or contributing to these discussions, getting themselves in a state and flouncing off?

What about those who start the threads? Some of them are started in complete innocence by users who are genuinely passionate or worried about something, or who don't realise what they are doing is lighting the touchpaper. Others are started by users with a history of starting such topics and - sometimes - morphing into the 'oversensitive' user who complains halfway through and asking for it to be closed.

I don't know the solution, tbh.

If the mods are the problem, you can:
1. Change them. But how will the next lot deal any better with the problem if the fundamental issues remain?
2. Create a section with no/minimal moderation for the discussion of such topics. But the condition is that you can't then go crying to them if someone gets offended, or someone turns out to be inherently racist, or you're on the receiving end of personal attacks. You're on your own, junior.
3. Instead conduct such discussions on another forum, perhaps pitched more at that level of subject.

If the 'oversensitive' users are the problem, you can:
1. Ban them - either from the forum, or from a section as described above. But they may not have done anything wrong. Who differentiates the serial offended from someone who got upset one time by an insensitive comment? In any case, by doing this you are violating their right to freedom of speech as well... no?
2. Tell or ask them not to read or engage in threads that we all know will upset them. Now tell me, has that *ever* worked so far? How will you fight human nature and make it work in the future?

If the thread starters are the problem, you can:
1. Ban them - see above.
2. Tell or ask them not to create threads that we all know will cause upset, to themselves or others. But that's violating freedom of speech. And anyway, they have always ignored such requests in the past, so what now? Ban them, because they've been warned? I refer you back to #1.

Ultimately you're asking people to behave rationally and sensibly in a situation where they have proven again and again that they cannot. We can keep talking about how people should grow a spine, be adults and walk away from upsetting threads, learn to scroll past subjects they don't like and quit moaning until the cows come home.

But, in reality, the people in question won't do any of that. Because human nature is a thing. And it's not worked so far.

What next? From my view in the stands, the next move belongs to those wanting the political threads to be allowed to continue. What are their solutions to these issues? Real, workable ones - not hypothetical 'people should behave better' ones?


----------



## O2.0

Ceiling Kitty said:


> What are their solutions to these issues? Real, workable ones - not hypothetical 'people should behave better' ones?


Ugh, finding solutions is no fun! We just want to bitch and complain! That's much more fun!  

In all seriousness, some things can't be solved to make everyone happy, and all of us are going to have to learn to suck it up in at least one area of the forum. And frankly if it's only one area, or one poster you find yourself having to put on your big girl panties with, then count yourself lucky.


----------



## O2.0

Just to add though, the other side of sucking it up and dealing is that if you do it too much, it's kind of license for some people to be an ass. I think it was @kimthecat who very early on in the thread said it's important to stand up to behavior that is clearly out of order. 
So yeah, it's a fine line between, "yeah, we all know that guy is a dick, just ignore him" and allowing unacceptable behavior to continue and be strengthened through practice. I wish I knew where that line is though, I haven't figured that out yet.


----------



## cheekyscrip

StormyThai said:


> You are wrong...for one, not a single member has demanded to ban political chat!


We have no political chat?


----------



## 3dogs2cats

lorilu said:


> That's not specific to this forum. That's the way it is the world over, In real life as well as the internet.


Indeed, Councillors at local authority meetings behave terribly, the meeting can be to discuss something extremely straight forward but for two hours all the public hear is personal insults been thrown, one councillor said another councillor pretended to be hard of hearing but was just in fact stupid, past issues being brought up time and time again, demanding minutes from meetings held many months ago were checked because everyone was accussing each other of lying, shouting over each other. 
Kids in the playground manage to behave better than that! I have to say I do find them very entertaining!


----------



## kimthecat

StormyThai said:


> You are wrong...for one, not a single member has demanded to ban political chat!


I think one of the problems of threads like this is that the suggestions and implications somehow later on become facts . Its unjust and makes people feel they have to defend themselves .


----------



## cheekyscrip

I just think that if participation in certain threads etc... affects anyone’s health then maybe they themselves should refrain from going there?

Do they need other members to act on their behalf to ban this and that because so and so is upset?

Once again no one is ever forced to read or post. 

I do not see whybMods cannot take the common sense approach: upsets you? Avoid it!
There is an ignore button if it is particular members that irritate you.


Ultimate Brexit thread should have been moved to another sub chat , not for newbies and left there with a warning “enter at your own risk”. “ Flying low memes”.
Then ignore complaints.
Those who go there just to run to mods to cry would be warned and if not stopped banned from that section for their own good.
If it died running out of posters... RIP then...
Just IMO of course.


----------



## O2.0

This theme is intriguing me. 
Who are all these members who run crying to the mods? 
And who are these mods who seem to be catering to crybabies?

I don't think either is happening to the extent you think it is @cheekyscrip 
Do you think it's possible your own perceptions are a bit skewed? 
I mean, you thought I was being underhanded and pretending to be a new member, and nothing of the sort ever happened. I announced who I was right from the start.


----------



## SusieRainbow

cheekyscrip said:


> I just think that if participation in certain threads etc... affects anyone's health then maybe they themselves should refrain from going there?
> 
> Do they need other members to act on their behalf to ban this and that because so and so is upset?
> 
> Once again no one is ever forced to read or post.
> 
> I do not see whybMods cannot take the common sense approach: upsets you? Avoid it!
> There is an ignore button if it is particular members that irritate you.
> 
> Ultimate Brexit thread should have been moved to another sub chat , not for newbies and left there with a warning "enter at your own risk". " Flying low memes".
> Then ignore complaints.
> Those who go there just to run to mods to cry would be warned and if not stopped banned from that section for their own good.
> If it died running out of posters... RIP then...
> Just IMO of course.


I've already said the Mods _can't _avoid it when there are reports to be dealt with !
Trust me when I say if it wasn't for reports I would give it a very wide berth.


----------



## cheekyscrip

SusieRainbow said:


> I've already said the Mods _can't _avoid it when there are reports to be dealt with !
> Trust me when I say if it wasn't for reports I would give it a very wide berth.


Oh I believe you.
But imagine - right now another of member reports this thread , because poor CS ( me) got upset by some unfavourable comments ( just look) and CS has so much worries that needs this thread closed.

So what do you do?
Close the thread to make me feel better.

Or tell that pf members that as CS had her say so did others and CS should have not go into that thread if not wanted the response?
If you bend down and close I could always or myself or by proxy wish to have the thread closed.

This is why " cage fighting " section is a good idea and keeping the vulnerable adults away from it.


----------



## lullabydream

Whoever said there were crybabies on these threads running to the mods?
Who said it was a mental health issue?

Am sorry if people can't be respectful of others which calling people crybabies where is the respect there? Then you called people trolls in dog chat because you believe your friend was hard done to. Don't you get the irony this name calling is not adult behaviour you keep going on about


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

cheekyscrip said:


> This is why " cage fighting " section is a good idea and *keeping the vulnerable adults away from it*.


Yes, but how?

You can't perform a mental health assessment of everyone using such a section - it's unworkable for too many reasons to go into.

And we've seen _time and time and time again_ that not all people make the decision themselves to stay away.


----------



## Vanessa131

It’s a tricky one. I do see some very poor behaviour on here, behaviour I wouldn’t even see in my school students!

In the brexit thread I explained why I voted remain, instead of people then asking questions I was called all sorts, one member even used very racist language as they had assumed I was black. I very rarely report anything, I did however report the racist language which led to this member ‘stalking’ my posts to make snide comments, all of which I chose to ignore, I have no idea if anyone else reported them. This person was banned not long afterwards. 

There was one poster who was very unpleasant to any member who supported the leave campaign and went on a campaign of their own to paint these people as evil beings who wanted to destroy someones way of life. That really isn’t appropriate behaviour from an adult. 

If we were all pleasant, calm and refrained from insults etc we would have more freedoms, but while we behave like petulant little children, freedom is a luxury we cannot be trusted with.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

cheekyscrip said:


> Oh I believe you.
> But imagine - right now another of member reports this thread , because poor CS ( me) got upset by some unfavourable comments ( just look) and CS has so much worries that needs this thread closed.
> 
> So what do you do?
> Close the thread to make me feel better.
> 
> Or tell that pf members that as CS had her say so did others and CS should have not go into that thread if not wanted the response?
> If you bend down and close I could always or myself or by proxy wish to have the thread closed.
> 
> This is why " cage fighting " section is a good idea and keeping the vulnerable adults away from it.


But if another member reports this thread, lets say its me as I've woken up this morning with a splitting headache, just had a row with my OH and I'm feeling particularly sensitive about your suggestions that its only leave voters who want B threads banned. So I report your post to one of the mods, they come and have a read and find hey ho there is nothing that you said that 1) warrants being reported 2) warrants your post being edited 3) warrants you getting a warning and 4) certainly doesn't warrant the thread being closed. Are you suggesting that with a scenario like that the mods would have said oh dear poor RPH, we must look after you today as you burnt your toast this morning, look we have closed the thread and told CS off for being mean to you? Now take another scenario - I've not got a headache and everything in RPH land is tickety-boo but when I challenged your assumption that only leave voters want B threads banned you came back at me and called me thick, a liar and a Nazi lover or started chasing me around the forum commenting in dog chat threads about B and me voting leave and then it got back to me that you had sent pm's out to other members trying to get me banned - well then I think the mods would say 1) this did warrant reporting. 2) your post calling me a thick Nazi lover did warrant editing 3) you do warrant a warning about your behaviour and 4) perhaps the thread should be moved for a while so that everyone can calm down and start behaving like adults again.


----------



## lullabydream

Vanessa131 said:


> It's a tricky one. I do see some very poor behaviour on here, behaviour I wouldn't even see in my school students!
> 
> In the brexit thread I explained why I voted remain, instead of people then asking questions I was called all sorts, one member even used very racist language as they had assumed I was black. I very rarely report anything, I did however report the racist language which led to this member 'stalking' my posts to make snide comments, all of which I chose to ignore, I have no idea if anyone else reported them. This person was banned not long afterwards.
> 
> There was one poster who was very unpleasant to any member who supported the leave campaign and went on a campaign of their own to paint these people as evil beings who wanted to destroy someones way of life. That really isn't appropriate behaviour from an adult.
> 
> If we were all pleasant, calm and refrained from insults etc we would have more freedoms, but while we behave like petulant little children, freedom is a luxury we cannot be trusted with.


You just ignored them, but it can be wear people down to be stalked etc

It makes people feel like you are walking on eggshells and I say this as a general feeling and in general as it's happened in all places all over the forum. Politics threads just seem to highlight the problems more

I don't necessarily think it's down to mental health issues as others are saying just as an adult we don't expect to be name called, stalked everything we say picked a part, things taken out of context to humiliate us like you say it's childish. However do it over a period of time, then it may effect people mentally.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> How would you know , you haven't been here for 12 years or did you used to be someone else?
> 
> Why should we have to prove you wrong , You're the one who made the suggestion . Who voted brexit and took part in the brexit thread and asked for a ban ? I didn't. A lot of people who voted brexit and took part in the earlier discussion left ages ago because of the nastiness .
> The political threads arent all about Brexit !
> 
> *RPH started this thread to ask that threads aren't closed , not the same as banning *.


Strictly speaking I started the thread so that members could try and air their differences in one place and see if we could put to bed some of the underlying currents and allegations that have been flying around. There has been some blatant goading and silliness and I just felt that as a couple of threads touching on the subject had been closed there would be no resolution. It wasn't in any way a mod bashing thread or even a request for threads in general not to be closed. I doubt there will be any resolution after this thread either as I think perhaps a lot of us do or say things without realising we are doing exactly the things we complain about others doing (myself included) but I thought if was worth a shot.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Yes, but how?
> 
> You can't perform a mental health assessment of everyone using such a section - it's unworkable for too many reasons to go into.
> 
> And we've seen _time and time and time again_ that not all people make the decision themselves to stay away.


 I know and such is life - mods are not to cure anyone's mental problems.

If someone repeatedly puts finger into the fire I would warned them and if that was not good...
You can't prevent anyone from posting, we had hustlers, cheats, even criminals.

Mods have to act on assumption that posters are in their capacity, post voluntarily and then have to put up with the opinions of others, pf members can also use ignore buttons.

Obviously personal insults should be removed and direct attacks ad hominem, racist or sexist etc...

The rest is just our opinions.
I presume this is what forum is for?
If Mods have a reason to suspect someone is really seriously disturbed - maybe let them rest for a few days?
Then see if it was just a temporary problem...
Mods are not carers, not police, not nannies, bodyguards, neither psychiatric ward staff.

Sometimes people insist on doing what is rather bad for them, but that is their choice.


rottiepointerhouse said:


> But if another member reports this thread, lets say its me as I've woken up this morning with a splitting headache, just had a row with my OH and I'm feeling particularly sensitive about your suggestions that its only leave voters who want B threads banned. So I report your post to one of the mods, they come and have a read and find hey ho there is nothing that you said that 1) warrants being reported 2) warrants your post being edited 3) warrants you getting a warning and 4) certainly doesn't warrant the thread being closed. Are you suggesting that with a scenario like that the mods would have said oh dear poor RPH, we must look after you today as you burnt your toast this morning, look we have closed the thread and told CS off for being mean to you? Now take another scenario - I've not got a headache and everything in RPH land is tickety-boo but when I challenged your assumption that only leave voters want B threads banned you came back at me and called me thick, a liar and a Nazi lover or started chasing me around the forum commenting in dog chat threads about B and me voting leave and then it got back to me that you had sent pm's out to other members trying to get me banned - well then I think the mods would say 1) this did warrant reporting. 2) your post calling me a thick Nazi lover did warrant editing 3) you do warrant a warning about your behaviour and 4) perhaps the thread should be moved for a while so that everyone can calm down and start behaving like adults again.


bizarre as I hardly post in Dog Chat.


----------



## Siskin

rottiepointerhouse said:


> But if another member reports this thread, lets say its me as I've woken up this morning with a splitting headache, just had a row with my OH and I'm feeling particularly sensitive about your suggestions that its only leave voters who want B threads banned. So I report your post to one of the mods, they come and have a read and find hey ho there is nothing that you said that 1) warrants being reported 2) warrants your post being edited 3) warrants you getting a warning and 4) certainly doesn't warrant the thread being closed. Are you suggesting that with a scenario like that the mods would have said oh dear poor RPH, we must look after you today as you burnt your toast this morning, look we have closed the thread and told CS off for being mean to you? Now take another scenario - I've not got a headache and everything in RPH land is tickety-boo but when I challenged your assumption that only leave voters want B threads banned you came back at me and called me thick, a liar and a Nazi lover or started chasing me around the forum commenting in dog chat threads about B and me voting leave and then it got back to me that you had sent pm's out to other members trying to get me banned - well then I think the mods would say 1) this did warrant reporting. 2) your post calling me a thick Nazi lover did warrant editing 3) you do warrant a warning about your behaviour and 4) perhaps the thread should be moved for a while so that everyone can calm down and start behaving like adults again.


This is made me realise that the decision I took to steer clear of any political threads but especially the B threads, has been the right thing to do.
I did participate in a limited way not long after the B vote because I was interested in what others felt and had to say, but the threads rapidly deteriorated into shouting matches between those with big political agendas. Not many seemed inclined to to listen to another's POV and anything that was said the poster was then accused of being racist/bigoted/stupid.
Ok I'm probably exaggerating, but that was how the threads were coming over to me and I felt they were hugely depressing and just plain nasty


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

cheekyscrip said:


> I know and such is life - mods are not to cure anyone's mental problems.
> 
> If someone repeatedly puts finger into the fire I would warned them and if that was not good...
> You can't prevent anyone from posting, we had hustlers, cheats, even criminals.
> 
> Mods have to act on assumption that posters are in their capacity, post voluntarily and then have to put up with the opinions of others, pf members can also use ignore buttons.
> 
> Obviously personal insults should be removed and direct attacks ad hominem, racist or sexist etc...
> 
> The rest is just our opinions.
> I presume this is what forum is for?
> If Mods have a reason to suspect someone is really seriously disturbed - maybe let them rest for a few days?
> Then see if it was just a temporary problem...
> Mods are not carers, not police, not nannies, bodyguards, neither psychiatric ward staff.
> 
> Sometimes people insist on doing what is rather bad for them, but that is their choice.
> 
> bizarre as I hardly post in Dog Chat.


It was an example I wasn't saying you did or would.


----------



## cheekyscrip

rottiepointerhouse said:


> It was an example I wasn't saying you did or would.


Still a bit strange one?

Imagine some sensitive souls after taking it out of context are begging mods to ban me for calling you a Nazi and insulting your dog too.
:Android


----------



## Jonescat

I don't think it is the mods that are the problem. We can all see that some people have issues with some topics, and some posters have issues with each other. I don't want anything raked over on this thread, but occasionally I have seen the moment when things got out of control on a thread resulting in it being closed for moderating and people banned, and yeah, I would too! So I assume that I would in most cases. 

On the occasions when I haven't seen anything like that bad behaviour but some one I am chatting too just vanishes, it is a bit weird, but you can't just leave it there for everyone to see, so it has to be removed, and I just have to be a bit baffled. That's ok. 

Mods didn't sign up to spend days moderating political threads they are not interested in. That's not a reasonable expectation. 

I would like to discuss politics, but the key word is discuss and many people have left/stopped engaging because of the behaviours on those threads, and that is a shame. GC has a place, and I do not agree that "Pet forum people can only discuss pets" - in that case games, goats and "how do I ..? threads have to go too. Reluctantly I am coming round to the idea that Brexit can not be discussed rationally on this forum, so perhaps that is the one thing that should not be discussed. 

Also, to those that say a forum is not real life - it is as real as my working life, which is conducted online, on the phone, in writing and only very occasionally face-to-face. There is a knack to it, and early on my work group agreed never to get upset by the tone of an email, and never to send an email when something had wound us up without having a break from the discussion first. 

The goats and Sasha worked for trolls - could we come up with a similar informal warning symbol for discussions getting out of hand where members can say to each other "Enough"?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

cheekyscrip said:


> Still a bit strange one?
> 
> Imagine some sensitive souls after taking it out of context are begging mods to ban me for calling you a Nazi and insulting your dog too.
> :Android


Why was it strange? it was trying to illustrate a point, I don't believe for one minute anyone reading would have taken it as me implying you had followed me into dog chat and called me a Nazi lover but similar things have happened which was why I used it so show the difference between an oversensitive snowflake running to the mods and someone with a genuine grievance. Do you want me to go back and edit the post so that I take you (CS) out of it?


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Why was it strange? it was trying to illustrate a point, I don't believe for one minute anyone reading would have taken it as me implying you had followed me into dog chat and called by a Nazi lover but similar things have happened which was why I used it so show the difference between an oversensitive snowflake running to the mods and someone with a genuine grievance. Do you want me to go back and edit the post so that I take you (CS) out of it?


You can see now why the Brexit/Political threads go round in circles


----------



## stockwellcat.

So I was a bit OTT the other day. I have come back to apologise if I have upset anyone in any way in the past. I realise I may have come across in the wrong manner in the past to various people.

For me Pet Forums is an excellent website to come and talk about your pets discuss any problems your pets are having get some really sound advice and be able to discuss normal every day things in General Chat.

Please respect that I have decided to give PF a wide berth for a while as I have to get on with every day things that I have been neglecting. PF has been a life line for me over the last year and a bit after the family tragedy I had as PF has helped me to be able to move on with things by taking my mind off things.

Regarding the great big "B" word I have read what people have said to me and others and I will not be participating in these types of discussions again ever. I am taking your advice.

I admire the mods for putting up with me and apologise to each and everyone of them if I have been out of order in the past in any way. 

This thread is excellent by the way and I think it is good to be able to get things in the open and try and find a solution. 

Any how I only wanted to pop by and apologise if I have upset anyone in any way in the past as no offense was meant.


----------



## kimthecat

@stockwellcat. It's good to see you.!  You don't have to apologise to anyone! I think you're owed an apology but not everyone is as gracious as you .


----------



## cheekyscrip

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Why was it strange? it was trying to illustrate a point, I don't believe for one minute anyone reading would have taken it as me implying you had followed me into dog chat and called by a Nazi lover but similar things have happened which was why I used it so show the difference between an oversensitive snowflake running to the mods and someone with a genuine grievance. Do you want me to go back and edit the post so that I take you (CS) out of it?


I just wanted to point how easily things get taken out of context and it is done often, as so much could be misread involuntarily or deliberately.
I was in that situation before- used a broad comparison- just to have someone take it personally just because they wanted to!

I said for example" censorship marks tyranny like communist or fascist regime " - to have someone complain bitterly that I called them or mods Nazi, they are now so upset they are leaving!!!!
My posts should come with complementary Prosac it seems!!!!
Then obviously threads get closed.

That is why a separate section - and some mods mentioned it before would be good for certain topics!

Only for die hard pf members, no newbies, no easily disturbed etc


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Good show @stockwellcat.

You've never upset me personally but I think, from what I've read over the years, that it would benefit you to stay well away from political threads of a certain nature.


----------



## StormyThai

cheekyscrip said:


> I have impression and prove me wrong tat those who demand to ban political chat





cheekyscrip said:


> We have no political chat?


I was responding to you implying that members demanded that political threads are banned...I used the term chat because that is the term you used.
I quoted your post so that it was clear what I was replying too.


----------



## kimthecat

stockwellcat. said:


> Please respect that I have decided to give PF a wide berth for a while as I have to get on with every day things that I have been neglecting. PF has been a life line for me over the last year and a bit after the family tragedy I had as PF has helped me to be able to move on with things by taking my mind off things.
> 
> .


Ive had tremendous support here , one of the biggest things Ive ever had to face in my life. I's not just a forum, its like my second home and my escape from
the "real" world. It's very sad these divides


----------



## lorilu

cheekyscrip said:


> I just wanted to point how easily things get taken out of context and it is done often, as so much could be misread involuntarily or deliberately.
> I was in that situation before- used a broad comparison- just to have someone take it personally just because they wanted to!
> 
> I said for example" censorship marks tyranny like communist or fascist regime " - to have someone complain bitterly that I called them or mods Nazi, they are now so upset they are leaving!!!!
> My posts should come with complementary Prosac it seems!!!!
> Then obviously threads get closed.
> 
> That is why a separate section - and some mods mentioned it before would be good for certain topics!
> 
> Only for die hard pf members, no newbies, no easily disturbed etc


But your posts, at least in this thread, seem to have this same theme of name calling, labeling or silly remarks about people needing prozac. Why not just make your opinions known without belittling other members?


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

cheekyscrip said:


> censorship marks tyranny like communist or fascist regime


In certain contexts, yes it does.

In others, no.

I don't equate the censorship of heated political discussion at Pizza Hut with a fascist regime. You might be asked to leave because you're raising your voice and upsetting the other customers who just came to eat pizza and talk about Love Island or some crap... but it doesn't make the management members of the Nazi party. They're trying to protect the harmony of their business and look out for their staff and other customers.

The same could be said of a forum about pets. By discouraging these heated arguments that upset members, get threads locked and take up moderators' time, the forum management may be simply trying to keep the peace for themselves and other users who are here for the pets.

We could have a political 'anything goes' room, sure. I'm not against it, personally.

But no such room exists at Pizza Hut. You're simply expected to leave and save such discussions for a more appropriate time and place.


----------



## kimthecat

cheekyscrip said:


> Only for die hard pf members, no newbies, no easily disturbed etc


Its an idea but then you are controlling what other members read and post and you didn't want that .



cheekyscrip said:


> I just wanted to point how easily things get taken out of context and it is done often, as so much could be misread involuntarily or deliberately.
> I was in that situation before- used a broad comparison- just to have someone take it personally just because they wanted to!
> 
> I said for example" censorship marks tyranny like communist or fascist regime " - to have someone complain bitterly that I called them or mods Nazi, they are now so upset they are leaving!!!!


That easily happens but not all things are taken out of context , we're not supposed to up bring old threads up but you have said things direct , one to me about Britain First, even as a joke it's not nice . But anyway , we need to move on and we all need to try harder .

perhaps you could lead by example .


----------



## cheekyscrip

Ceiling Kitty said:


> In certain contexts, yes it does.
> 
> In others, no.
> 
> I don't equate the censorship of heated political discussion at Pizza Hut with a fascist regime. You might be asked to leave because you're raising your voice and upsetting the other customers who just came to eat pizza and talk about Love Island or some crap... but it doesn't make the management members of the Nazi party. They're trying to protect the harmony of their business and look out for their staff and other customers.
> 
> The same could be said of a forum about pets. By discouraging these heated arguments that upset members, get threads locked and take up moderators' time, the forum management may be simply trying to keep the peace for themselves and other users who are here for the pets.
> 
> We could have a political 'anything goes' room, sure. I'm not against it, personally.
> 
> But no such room exists at Pizza Hut. You're simply expected to leave and save such discussions for a more appropriate time and place.


No one said " anything goes". ? I reported someone for calling someone else "scum".

I repeat that no personal insults or opinions or racist etc comments should be allowed ever. 
Though those who use them just basically announce that they lost a debate and they are very poor losers.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Sorry Cheeky, either you missed my point or I didn't make it clear enough.

My point is, 'why here'? Genuine question. Of all the fora on the internet, many of which cater precisely for the kind of discussions you are talking about, why does it have to be discussed on this one?

I understand that we all love this place, but it's not a one-stop shop. It's about pets.

I love Pizza Hut, but they don't serve pasta there (and maybe they _are_ fascists for that particular oversight...) so if I want a carbonara I have to go elsewhere.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

I really want pizza now...


----------



## Vanessa131

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I really want pizza now...


I want carbonara!


----------



## Rafa

I want both!


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Frankie & Bennie's used to make a chicken carbonara calzone. Not sure if they still do but that was quite nice.


----------



## Sacrechat

Siskin said:


> This is made me realise that the decision I took to steer clear of any political threads but especially the B threads, has been the right thing to do.
> I did participate in a limited way not long after the B vote because I was interested in what others felt and had to say, but the threads rapidly deteriorated into shouting matches between those with big political agendas. Not many seemed inclined to to listen to another's POV and anything that was said the poster was then accused of being racist/bigoted/stupid.
> Ok I'm probably exaggerating, but that was how the threads were coming over to me and I felt they were hugely depressing and just plain nasty


I went on the Brexit threads pre-vote for the same reason because I felt it might help me make an informed decision. After the vote, I gave them a wide berth. Tearing strips out of each other, because someone's view was different seemed utterly pointless.


----------



## lorilu

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I really want pizza now...


But not Pizza Hut. Real pizza.


----------



## simplysardonic

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Sorry Cheeky, either you missed my point or I didn't make it clear enough.
> 
> My point is, 'why here'? Genuine question. Of all the fora on the internet, many of which cater precisely for the kind of discussions you are talking about, why does it have to be discussed on this one?
> 
> I understand that we all love this place, but it's not a one-stop shop. It's about pets.
> 
> I love Pizza Hut, but they don't serve pasta there (and maybe they _are_ fascists for that particular oversight...) so if I want a carbonara I have to go elsewhere.


Well put, & this has been the thing that's flummoxed me from the start.

Surely it's better to join a politics-specific forum, where there will be lots of like minded (& polar opposite) people on there that will encourage lively & fulfilling debate.

PF will still be here when you decide to come back, & it won't accuse you of cheating on it, I promise


----------



## lorilu

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I love Pizza Hut, but they don't serve pasta there


Really? In the USA, Pizza Hut serves pasta.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

lorilu said:


> Really? In the USA, Pizza Hut serves pasta.


They went through a phase of doing so here, but then the fascists took over and stopped it. I think one of our local ones serves lasagne, but I've not been in a while.


----------



## Lurcherlad

kimthecat said:


> Ive had tremendous support here , one of the biggest things Ive ever had to face in my life. I's not just a forum, its like my second home and my escape from
> the "real" world. It's very sad these divides


This is something we would all do well to remember.

We are all strangers and none of us know what the other is going through in real life.

Some of us are not as robust as others.

I'm a tough old biddy with a skin like a rhino btw but backed out of the Brexit thread as it did get quite vitriolic and personal between certain people on occasion and not just differing opinions either imo.

Even in this thread I feel a similar undertone from some quarter.


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> You can see now why the Brexit/Political threads go round in circles


This is the problem with the written word, people cannot see your facial expressions or intonation in your voice, so members taking posts out of context or misunderstanding a poster's intention happens frequently and leads to upset and disagreements. There's nothing more frustrating than writing something and someone colouring what you've said with their own misinterpretation, probably due to their own personal bias. You just end up arguing and like you say going around in circles.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

I'm so dang hungry now, I need to go and get something to eat.

Laters (if I see a padlock next to this thread when I get back I'll be gutted, keep it real guys).


----------



## Northpup

Does anyone think that 
A) having a separate sub-forum for political threads could be made and only open to members of a certain level eg seniors or whatever to make sure no trolls.
There could then be discussion on there but ANY language that is inappropriate/targeted would mean said member would be banned from either PF as a whole or the political sub forum. 
It sounds like a lot of work for a mod and they are busy already but possibly appointing a new one to manage this sub forum and then having a rules list and restriction to who can comment would make it easier? 

I think any targeted language should earn a warning/ ban depending on severity.
SAying : I voted remain because... is fine and part of healthy discussion 
Saying : anyone who voted leave is a t**t isnt!


----------



## havoc

Northpup said:


> Does anyone think that
> A) having a separate sub-forum for political threads could be made and only open to members of a certain level eg seniors or whatever to make sure no trolls.


This forum is full enough of cabals and cliques without deliberately creating any more. If people want to go off into private discussions there's a perfectly good private messaging facility.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

havoc said:


> This forum is full enough of cabals and cliques without deliberately creating any more. If people want to go off into private discussions there's a perfectly good private messaging facility.


This clique thing always bothers me too. Oxford dictionary definition

"A small close-knit group of people who do not readily allow others to join them."

Perhaps I'm not seeing them but I'm not aware of any groups on here who try to exclude others unless they are people who want to cause harm to animals or other humans. Obviously some people become friends with others they share interests with and may chat via PM but I can't see any instances where those people exclude others on the open forum. Even in the heated threads like some of the political ones or the vegan ones members are usually trying to get others to join them rather than exclude them surely?


----------



## O2.0

Honestly I think the mods do a really good job with obvious violations. People being called names, obvious inappropriate behavior etc., gets dealt with very well from what I can see. 

The issue are the more nuanced situations, subtle comments that might not look like much but are clearly directed at a particular member, "jokes" that aren't really funny to anyone but the joker hides behind "oh I was just playing." That sort of thing. 

I think unless you're directly involved in it or directly targeted, this sort of thing is completely invisible, and that's what makes it so hard to deal with too.


----------



## Northpup

havoc said:


> This forum is full enough of cabals and cliques without deliberately creating any more. If people want to go off into private discussions there's a perfectly good private messaging facility.


I agree cliques aren't something to promote, but all banning newbies would do would put off trolls commenting in these sections. As soon as they had posted enough and therefore are less likely to be trolls (probably would be realised by then or banned) and could join in.
There's a big difference between banning brand new members from commenting on a separated sub forum and people talking over direct message. The whole point is to work out a solution so discussions can be have civilly. proper debates aren't going to happen over direct message and it's not about "private discussion" it's about stopping trolling and making it easier for mods to manage


----------



## Rafa

Northpup said:


> it's about stopping trolling and making it easier for mods to manage


It really isn't.

The majority of those who participate in political threads are established members.

The problem isn't trolling.


----------



## Siskin

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I'm so dang hungry now, I need to go and get something to eat.
> 
> Laters (if I see a padlock next to this thread when I get back I'll be gutted, keep it real guys).


OHis on tea making duties tonight (he's making his special fried rice). He asked me when I wanted to eat and I said this instance. He's gone off to read his newspaper now, where did I go wrong.

Quite fancy a pizza too, but the shops are closed and the pizza places are miles and miles away


----------



## havoc

Northpup said:


> I agree cliques aren't something to promote, but all banning newbies would do would put off trolls commenting in these sections.


As I have no idea what happened I can't say it wasn't a 'newbie' caused the problem - but I doubt very much it was. If it was in the particular instance that caused RPH to start this thread then fair enough, there's the evidence and ban all newbies from stating an opinion. It's a solution I suppose but not a great one for something which calls itself a forum. There are people on here I've disagreed with hotly on a thread and then we're hitting the like button on each other's posts later on. There are those I'll never agree with but I admire their passion. I've even leapt to the defence of one where I was absolutely opposed to her views because I respect her commitment. It's what happens the vast majority of the time on here with the vast majority of posters.


----------



## Northpup

Rafa said:


> It really isn't.
> 
> The majority of those who participate in political threads are established members.
> 
> The problem isn't trolling.


Established members causing the problems? 
That's difficult then, I suppose there can't be bans until a certain level of membership then.
If political threads are to be kept then maybe the only answer is to try and get another mod to do general chat etc and leave the others free to focus on the pet related threads 
Difficult


----------



## Northpup

havoc said:


> As I have no idea what happened I can't say it wasn't a 'newbie' caused the problem - but I doubt very much it was. If it was in the particular instance that caused RPH to start this thread then fair enough, there's the evidence and ban all newbies from stating an opinion. It's a solution I suppose but not a great one for something which calls itself a forum. There are people on here I've disagreed with hotly on a thread and then we're hitting the like button on each other's posts later on. There are those I'll never agree with but I admire their passion. I've even leapt to the defence of one where I was absolutely opposed to her views because I respect her commitment. It's what happens the vast majority of the time on here with the vast majority of posters.


I assumed removing trolls would stop most of the non discussive comments and just keep it as a healthy debate but apparently this isn't the case and actually it's established members who can be part of the issue.
I now no longer think banning newbies would help, possibly only solution if political threads are to be kept is to try and find another mod to oversee general chat and leave the others free to do pet related? 
I'm not sure who would volunteer to be a mod though!! Seems like such hard work to keep everyone happy


----------



## havoc

Northpup said:


> I assumed removing trolls would stop most of the non discussive comments and just keep it as a healthy debate


I guess it depends how you define trolling. I believe we have resident trolls.


----------



## Siskin

Tbh I would rather there wasn’t political threads, but I will go with the majority if they feel there is a need. Fundamentally this is a pet forum and although as in many forums there is a general chat area they tend not to have political or religious threads as they get so contentious.
When I first started using the forum I used to go to the individual forums of interest in dog chat and rarely looked at anything else. Occasionally would look at GC but usually forgot. I can’t really recall seeing much political stuff in GC in those days though. Now use the New Posts button which of course is a new post in every forum, so there are things I’m not interested in but sometimes just have a nose out of curiosity which was when I noticed political posts turning up in GC. 
So, was there many political type posts in GC or has it only really started since the Brexit vote?


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> So, was there many political type posts in GC or has it only really started since the Brexit vote?


We live in 'interesting' times and this forum reflects that.


----------



## Arnie83

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm not aware of any groups on here who try to exclude others


Well this is awkward ...


----------



## havoc

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Even in the heated threads like some of the political ones or the vegan ones members are usually trying to get others to join them rather than exclude them surely


If they are then they have a funny way of going about it sometimes. There are those of us who recognise some very harsh comments as commitment but the snowflakes don't and they're put off very quickly.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Arnie83 said:


> Well this is awkward ...


 Shall I sit in the corner on my own :Bawling:Bawling


----------



## havoc

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Shall I sit in the corner on my own :Bawling:Bawling


Independent thinkers have a corner  We all gather in it and don't speak to each other of course because we all have differing views.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

havoc said:


> If they are then they have a funny way of going about it sometimes. There are those of us who recognise some very harsh comments as commitment but the snowflakes don't and they're put off very quickly.


Well I guess snowflakes have a habit of melting so not a lot we can do to prevent that really.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

havoc said:


> Independent thinkers have a corner


Do they also get Marmite on toast? I do love a bit of Marmite on toast


----------



## havoc

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Do they also get Marmite on toast? I do love a bit of Marmite on toast


Start the Marmite debate and this thread will be closed pronto


----------



## Siskin

Hate marmite:Spitoutdummy


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

havoc said:


> Start the Marmite debate and this thread will be closed pronto


How very dare you. There is no debate. Marmite is the bees knees and cannot be beaten as a topping for toast


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Siskin said:


> Hate marmite:Spitoutdummy


:Rage:Rage I don't believe it. You are just saying that to exclude me from your clique.


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> Hate marmite:Spitoutdummy





rottiepointerhouse said:


> How very dare you. There is no debate. Marmite is the bees knees and cannot be beaten as a topping for toast


I rest my case.


----------



## Northpup

havoc said:


> I guess it depends how you define trolling. I believe we have resident trolls.


I don't know then, I'm not aware of any but maybe because I haven't seen this in action


----------



## Siskin

rottiepointerhouse said:


> :Rage:Rage I don't believe it. You are just saying that to exclude me from your clique.


No debate required, don't have a clique, you're just being rude now:Couchpotato


----------



## O2.0

How does this thread continually digress in to food?! :Hilarious
Gherkins and pizza, pasta, and now marmite! 
I think we need a food sub-section. Clearly this forum is food obsessed!


----------



## lorilu

O2.0 said:


> How does this thread continually digress in to food?! :Hilarious
> Gherkins and pizza, pasta, and now marmite!
> I think we need a food sub-section. Clearly this forum is food obsessed!


It's the same at work, we were just talking about that at work in fact. No matter what we originally start talking about, be it personal or work related, it always ends up talking about food.


----------



## Elles

Definitely some opinionated people who like winding other people up are well established here imho.

It would be difficult to blanket ban all political threads, simply because it would be difficult to define which are and which aren’t. For example rph’s thread on the environment and veganism has a long copy/paste about neoliberalism that is obviously political, but the original posts aren’t about politics as such. Someone linking a welfare petition, or asking people to write to their local MPs becomes political. We wouldn’t want to ban those. I don’t think a separate forum where people can be as nasty and insulting as they like and assume all kinds of things about each other aka a political forum would be good for the forum as a whole. The person I ignore is ignored in all of the sections, not just the general one, or Brexit threads. If I put everyone who said something not quite so on ignore, there’d probably be hardly any posts left for me to read, conversely no one would see mine either. 

Ignore isn’t the answer, nor is banning discussions in a general way imho. I would say no discussions on Brexit or Party politics myself. It gets too heated and creeps into a lot of threads. jmho


----------



## O2.0

lorilu said:


> It's the same at work, we were just talking about that at work in fact. No matter what we originally start talking about, be it personal or work related, it always ends up talking about food.


I thought that just happened to me because I eat "weird" food. 
Though the other day I was eating a banana - a BANANA - how mundane is that? And someone commented on me and my "healthy" eating. It's a friggin' banana people. Chillax!


----------



## Matrod

rottiepointerhouse said:


> How very dare you. There is no debate. Marmite is the bees knees and cannot be beaten as a topping for toast


Marmite on toast is the food of the gods :Hungry


----------



## Lurcherlad

I don’t thing clique is the right term, as that implies exclusion.

However, I have seen gang mentality on occasion.

I guess there is a fine line between joining together to support one side and ganging up on the other?

Again, sometimes the tone/intent may be confused in the typed word?


----------



## O2.0

You marmite lovers are all clearly insane. 


Darn... I need a better insult. Something to really set people off, create a forum divide between the marmite lovers and the sane ones... 
I'll be back....

(and my spellcheck doesn't like the word marmite. I don't know why that's relevant but I'll get back to you on that too.)


----------



## Sacrechat

Nah, Marmite is the Devil’s elixir!


----------



## Lurcherlad

O2.0 said:


> How does this thread continually digress in to food?! :Hilarious
> Gherkins and pizza, pasta, and now marmite!
> I think we need a food sub-section. Clearly this forum is food obsessed!


My son has just ordered and scoffed a Domino's pizza 

Despite it being loaded with meat and dairy - it smelled devine!


----------



## MilleD

Matrod said:


> Marmite on toast is the food of the gods :Hungry


I love to spread Marmite on hot toast, lovely and thin and caressing the crispy hillocks of toastage.

Then throw the whole vile lot in the bin, best place for it


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> Hate marmite:Spitoutdummy


Love it ! Yum !


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

O2.0 said:


> and my spellcheck doesn't like the word marmite.


Well mine clearly does.

And I have no idea why this thread keeps digressing on the food but I'm not complaining.

J


----------



## O2.0

Lurcherlad said:


> I guess there is a fine line between joining together to support one side and ganging up on the other?


Definitely! 
This is another of those nuanced things that has to be hell to moderate.


----------



## lorilu

lorilu said:


> It's the same at work, we were just talking about that at work in fact. No matter what we originally start talking about, be it personal or work related, it always ends up talking about food.


I forgot to add...that this does NOT happen with my "real life" people. Close friends, sisters, Aunt, Uncle...we never talk about food, though food is usually involved in our get together. Maybe that's why?.



O2.0 said:


> I thought that just happened to me because I eat "weird" food.
> Though the other day I was eating a banana - a BANANA - how mundane is that? And someone commented on me and my "healthy" eating. It's a friggin' banana people. Chillax!


I eat an apple every day for my mid-morning pick me up, and someone often feels compelled to comment on that, as well, even perfect strangers (because I am usually eating it as I walk down the street). lol


----------



## Matrod

MilleD said:


> I love to spread Marmite on hot toast, lovely and thin and caressing the crispy hillocks of toastage.
> 
> Then throw the whole vile lot in the bin, best place for it


Sacrilege


----------



## MilleD

Matrod said:


> Sacrilege


Which bit??


----------



## havoc

Do not understand how anyone could hate the glorious tangy taste of marmite. Do the haters also hate edible yeast flakes? I rely on them to pep up all sorts of food


----------



## kimthecat

All together now ! Foooood . Glorious fooood . Hot sausage and Marmite 

While we're in the moood , cold jelly and .... Um, what rhymes with Marmite ?


----------



## Arnie83

.


----------



## SusieRainbow

havoc said:


> Do not understand how anyone could hate the glorious tangy taste of marmite. Do the haters also hate edible yeast flakes? I rely on them to pep up all sorts of food


I love the yeast flakes and put some on my home-made red pepper soup ! Yum Yum !


----------



## cheekyscrip

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Sorry Cheeky, either you missed my point or I didn't make it clear enough.
> 
> My point is, 'why here'? Genuine question. Of all the fora on the internet, many of which cater precisely for the kind of discussions you are talking about, why does it have to be discussed on this one?
> 
> I understand that we all love this place, but it's not a one-stop shop. It's about pets.
> 
> I love Pizza Hut, but they don't serve pasta there (and maybe they _are_ fascists for that particular oversight...) so if I want a carbonara I have to go elsewhere.


Because it was. Since I was there and as I am aware from the beginning. 
Current important issues were debated and it was heated at times! Ask @JANICE199 !

Yet it was always a mainstay of GC.

Forum - ancient world had it for people to bring up important stuff in the open.

Honestly never tried to deliberately insult anyone and if not agree on politics with someone often agreed on many other topics. I could love my friends dearly regardless of their opinions on Brexit, abortion, divorce, drugs etc.


----------



## Matrod

MilleD said:


> Which bit??


The throwing it away bit obvs


----------



## Siskin

Never heard of yeast flakes, if they taste like marmite then they are definitely off the shopping list.


----------



## ForestWomble

Marmite :Yuck

The best thing on toast is Nutella. :Hungry


----------



## Matrod

Siskin said:


> Never heard of yeast flakes, if they taste like marmite then they are definitely off the shopping list.


I love marmite but the yeast flakes are rank :Vomit


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> Never heard of yeast flakes, if they taste like marmite then they are definitely off the shopping list.


Never heard of yeast flakes  You have missed out!


----------



## MilleD

havoc said:


> Do not understand how anyone could hate the glorious tangy taste of marmite. Do the haters also hate edible yeast flakes? I rely on them to pep up all sorts of food


Yeast flakes?? What whole new hell is this????

It sounds like the side effect of a ladies' problem.


----------



## lorilu

Animallover26 said:


> Marmite :Yuck
> 
> The best thing on toast is Nutella. :Hungry


Toast! I don't eat it often, but there are a number of delicious ways.... Dripping in butter. A nice medium swath of peanut butter. The aforementioned butter with a swipe of some kind of berry preserves. Or melted cheese on toast.


----------



## Siskin

havoc said:


> Never heard of yeast flakes  You have missed out!


Are you quite sure about that:Shy


----------



## Siskin

lorilu said:


> Toast! I don't eat it often, but there are a number of delicious ways.... Dripping in butter. A nice medium swath of peanut butter. The aforementioned butter with a swipe of some kind of berry preserves. Or melted cheese on toast.


Ooooooh, cheese on toast, stoppit, I really fancy some now and we've no cheese:Arghh


----------



## Eeyore

I have been following PF for a while, used to be a member, left (not banned) and sometimes think shall I join again or not. This account is an old one (mods know about this so no troll either). As my decision to come back will be affected by this thread and the nature of the discussion, I thought I would put my two pennies worth here.

First, I remember a time when there was always lots going on, threads about anything and everything, so all could find something they were interested and most were very happy. Naturally there were some trolls and every now and them discussion got a bit personal, but it was pretty easy to understand why some members got banned and what was not allowed to say. In short, PF was brilliant. I hope that my two pennies worth might help to get this back on track a bit too, as RPH wants to happen, so respect to her.

So pros for coming back: many wonderful members, many great stories (and photos) of dogs. (and cats, keep lurking there too, as some of the cats are really regal). I have had lots of very happy times here and do miss that.

But then, it hasn´t been like that for quite some time. I left dog chat ages ago, as I didn´t always agree with some very active members and no matter how I tried and how polite I was, I was ridiculed, my language was ridiculed (was incomprehensible for some, apparently, grammar was all wrong etc. endless faults). After rewriting some posts 3-4 times, I gave up and decided not to have any dog related threads. Point taken. I still see every now and then some newbies getting similar "treatment" by some. Most are extremely nice and helpful, of course. But a few people can create a lot of damage and discourage people to start threads.

I continued in General Chat until it too started to change. Politics is an art that few can master. But I was, and still am really interested to learn more about it, as it has direct influence on animal welfare and nature. That is the angle I don´t find in other political sites, as they don´t feel passionately about them. PF members do, and that was the reason I was grateful that there were/are enough politically active members on PF, @noushka05 to help me to know more about animal legislation. And 99% of the times, all PF members agree that we need way better legislation to protect animals and nature. That alone would be a reason for me to join back and become a fairly active member.

The change started to happen when I didn´t always understand why some threads started to get closed or posts taken away. Before I did, but not anymore. Under B-word t we suddenly couldn´t agree or disagree like we have been doing for years, and the rules that was allowed and not seemed to shift with every poster. Personally I think current mods genuinely tried to please every body and got just so tired of all the reports and never ending palaver that they just want to end it all. I don´t blame them either. But I ask: maybe you mods have taken too much responsibility, maybe it is not your job to keep all happy? Maybe it is enough to react only when the language isn´t PC (including calling some an idiot etc) and when the content doesn´t belong to family forum? More freedom for you too. For me I would know what I can post and not to post, as I used to. I even got one post removed, but I knew why and it was fine, a mod did what she was supposed to do.

Eventually I left because I had no idea when or why some threads got closed and some not. That made me feel that I wasn´t even that two pennies worth, even after years of being a member and spending hours and hours here and trying to be as polite as I could. Knowing myself I know that if nothing changes in that respect I know that I am really not welcome. Point taken.

Cencorship has been mentioned a few times too. Maybe the term is wrong, but can we really talk about anything, providing we follow the rules? I feel that I really don´t want to talk about anything that people have different opinions about, whether it is dog related, politically related or even food related. I don´t have to join all threads, and that is fair enough. But I would like to feel that if I find something really important or interesting I could talk about it, even when people might disagree with me, and not face the whole thread being wiped out. And that feeling of excitement is for me the trigger that used to make me spend the hours here.

Thanks for reading, as I expect I will not get much response nor will this affect anything. But what do you expect, it is only two pennies worth anyway and with that you get nothing nowadays.


----------



## havoc

Siskin said:


> Are you quite sure about that:Shy


Absolutely


----------



## lorilu

Siskin said:


> Ooooooh, cheese on toast, stoppit, I really fancy some now and we've no cheese:Arghh


No cheese? Now THAT is sacrilege, no cheese in the house. Unheard of!


----------



## kimthecat

Arnie83 said:


> .


Arnie , you edited your post . Was it rude 



Animallover26 said:


> Marmite :Yuck
> 
> The best thing on toast is Nutella. :Hungry


I lick that off a spoon !


----------



## Arnie83

kimthecat said:


> Arnie , you edited your post . Was it rude


Not only that, but likely to upset Marmite lovers!

And I do try to avoid upsetting people, even in the B threads! :Angelic


----------



## Westie Mum

Gosh, this moved along at a quick pace while I had people here for lunch :Wideyed

And no, I absolutely hate marmite !

And why do people not seem to have proper Sunday dinners anymore. Pizza, pasta, cheese on toast ..... it's sunday :Jawdrop



cheekyscrip said:


> I have impression and prove me wrong tat those who demand to ban political chat do it just because they do not feel at ease after voting to Leave and now seeing how the reality pans out.





rottiepointerhouse said:


> I stopped because I found them futile, divisive and destructive. I didn't much like the way that people were talking to each other, me included. It worries me when I see people who I know have serious health issues getting so worked up and upset.


FWIW I voted leave and I would again, because that it what I think is best. However, I don't need to explain or justify that to anyone, the same way anyone who voted to stay doesn't need to give me their reasons either. You think what you think, I think what I do.

That is NOT the reason I think politics threads shouldn't be here. It's purely because past threads have proved people cannot control themselves, the insults, name calling and upset it's caused to members.

Unless I'm missing posts, @cheekyscrip seems to be the only person posting on this thread wanting the political threads to continue ? Would it therefore not be easier for the forum as a whole to vote if they should be allowed or banned ?



kimthecat said:


> @stockwellcat. It's good to see you.!  You don't have to apologise to anyone! I think you're owed an apology but not everyone is as gracious as you .


I don't know you @stockwellcat. but I agree, I think you are owed an apology too tbh.


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> All together now ! Foooood . Glorious fooood . Hot sausage and Marmite
> 
> While we're in the moood , cold jelly and .... Um, what rhymes with Marmite ?


Shite!


----------



## noushka05

Westie Mum said:


> Gosh, this moved along at a quick pace while I had people here for lunch :Wideyed
> 
> And no, I absolutely hate marmite !
> 
> And why do people not seem to have proper Sunday dinners anymore. Pizza, pasta, cheese on toast ..... it's sunday :Jawdrop
> 
> FWIW I voted leave and I would again, because that it what I think is best. However, I don't need to explain or justify that to anyone, the same way anyone who voted to stay doesn't need to give me their reasons either. You think what you think, I think what I do.
> 
> That is NOT the reason I think politics threads shouldn't be here. It's purely because past threads have proved people cannot control themselves, the insults, name calling and upset it's caused to members.
> 
> Unless I'm missing posts, @cheekyscrip seems to be the only person posting on this thread wanting the political threads to continue ? Would it therefore not be easier for the forum as a whole to vote if they should be allowed or banned ?
> 
> I don't know you @stockwellcat. but I agree, I think you are owed an apology too tbh.


Politics encompasses most things though, from our NHS to our environment. Climate change has been politicised. Even animal welfare - fox hunting is a political issue, this is an animal lovers forum. And brexit, will have a severe impact on animal welfare, even on our pets. Wont we be allowed to talk about these things anymore? I dont understand why people dont just avoid threads which aggravate them personally.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Sacremist said:


> Shite!


Nice to see we've sunk to the depths !


----------



## lullabydream

Sacremist said:


> Shite!


I would have said Sprite...but since am not a marmite lover I always thought it was a good thing marmite rhymed with shite


----------



## Northpup

I think unless someone can be found who wants to moderate general chat only (unless a separate category for political topics is made) 
Then since the main purpose is for a pet forum political thread should be banned. Although it may be hard to have a firm ban as a pp mentioned as politics are sometimes brought in as valid points to other topics.
If the mods are spending most of their time sorting out the political threads then this should be stopped and therefore the only way I can think is just to get rid of it as a topic altogether


----------



## Sacrechat

SusieRainbow said:


> Nice to see we've sunk to the depths !


Sorry!


----------



## Lurcherlad

Personally, I don’t think politics or most other subjects should be banned from discussion in General Chat.

Just that posters be sensible, take a break to calm down if they are getting carried away and recognise that other members may not be as robust and may have some sensitivity to a particular subject or points raised.

Let common sense prevail.

If a post is reported to a Mod then they obviously have to check what’s going on and make a judgement within the rules of the forum.

Hopefully, a gentle prod from them should be enough to calm it all down


----------



## lullabydream

Northpup said:


> I think unless someone can be found who wants to moderate general chat only (unless a separate category for political topics is made)
> Then since the main purpose is for a pet forum political thread should be banned. Although it may be hard to have a firm ban as a pp mentioned as politics are sometimes brought in as valid points to other topics.
> If the mods are spending most of their time sorting out the political threads then this should be stopped and therefore the only way I can think is just to get rid of it as a topic altogether


To be fair it's it's actually been Brexit that's caused a stir. 
Politics is quite a huge area when you think about it and not all political themes have caused problems at all even comments about specific politicians people seem to have agreed to disagreed or walked away and not argue

Where do you draw the line in not to discuss politics?


----------



## Northpup

lullabydream said:


> To be fair it's it's actually been Brexit that's caused a stir.
> Politics is quite a huge area when you think about it and not all political themes have caused problems at all even comments about specific politicians people seem to have agreed to disagreed or walked away and not argue
> 
> Where do you draw the line in not to discuss politics?


Yeah that's what I mean as in it's hard to distinguish if things are being banned, what actually needs banning. 
The topic of brexit? Would that stop the majority of the problems Dyou think?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> All together now ! Foooood . Glorious fooood . Hot sausage and Marmite
> 
> While we're in the moood , cold jelly and .... Um, what rhymes with Marmite ?


belly jipes



MilleD said:


> Yeast flakes?? What whole new hell is this????
> 
> It sounds like the side effect of a ladies' problem.


I hope you realise I will never be able to sprinkle my yeast flakes (or Nutritional Yeast to be precise) on my baked spud again without thinking of your post. Ruined I say, Ruined.



lorilu said:


> No cheese? Now THAT is sacrilege, no cheese in the house. Unheard of!


Have you forgotten all the vegans? A good shake of yeast flakes gives a bit of a cheesy flavour though 



Westie Mum said:


> Gosh, this moved along at a quick pace while I had people here for lunch :Wideyed
> 
> And no, I absolutely hate marmite !
> 
> And why do people not seem to have proper Sunday dinners anymore. Pizza, pasta, cheese on toast ..... it's sunday :Jawdrop
> 
> FWIW I voted leave and I would again, because that it what I think is best. However, I don't need to explain or justify that to anyone, the same way anyone who voted to stay doesn't need to give me their reasons either. You think what you think, I think what I do.
> 
> That is NOT the reason I think politics threads shouldn't be here. It's purely because past threads have proved people cannot control themselves, the insults, name calling and upset it's caused to members.
> 
> Unless I'm missing posts, @cheekyscrip seems to be the only person posting on this thread wanting the political threads to continue ? Would it therefore not be easier for the forum as a whole to vote if they should be allowed or banned ?
> 
> I don't know you @stockwellcat. but I agree, I think you are owed an apology too tbh.


I don't want to see political threads banned either. As others have said where do you draw the line as to what is political and what isn't?


----------



## noushka05

Eeyore said:


> I continued in General Chat until it too started to change. Politics is an art that few can master. But I was, and still am really interested to learn more about it, as it has direct influence on animal welfare and nature. That is the angle I don´t find in other political sites, as they don´t feel passionately about them. PF members do, and that was the reason I was grateful that there were/are enough politically active members on PF, @noushka05 to help me to know more about animal legislation. And 99% of the times, all PF members agree that we need way better legislation to protect animals and nature. That alone would be a reason for me to join back and become a fairly active member


Thats really nice of you to mention me like that, thank you. Curiosity is killing me now though, I'm trying to work out who you were previously Whoever you were I hope you will stick around anyway.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Eeyore said:


> I have been following PF for a while, used to be a member, left (not banned) and sometimes think shall I join again or not. This account is an old one (mods know about this so no troll either). As my decision to come back will be affected by this thread and the nature of the discussion, I thought I would put my two pennies worth here.
> 
> First, I remember a time when there was always lots going on, threads about anything and everything, so all could find something they were interested and most were very happy. Naturally there were some trolls and every now and them discussion got a bit personal, but it was pretty easy to understand why some members got banned and what was not allowed to say. In short, PF was brilliant. I hope that my two pennies worth might help to get this back on track a bit too, as RPH wants to happen, so respect to her.
> 
> So pros for coming back: many wonderful members, many great stories (and photos) of dogs. (and cats, keep lurking there too, as some of the cats are really regal). I have had lots of very happy times here and do miss that.
> 
> But then, it hasn´t been like that for quite some time. I left dog chat ages ago, as I didn´t always agree with some very active members and no matter how I tried and how polite I was, I was ridiculed, my language was ridiculed (was incomprehensible for some, apparently, grammar was all wrong etc. endless faults). After rewriting some posts 3-4 times, I gave up and decided not to have any dog related threads. Point taken. I still see every now and then some newbies getting similar "treatment" by some. Most are extremely nice and helpful, of course. But a few people can create a lot of damage and discourage people to start threads.
> 
> I continued in General Chat until it too started to change. Politics is an art that few can master. But I was, and still am really interested to learn more about it, as it has direct influence on animal welfare and nature. That is the angle I don´t find in other political sites, as they don´t feel passionately about them. PF members do, and that was the reason I was grateful that there were/are enough politically active members on PF, @noushka05 to help me to know more about animal legislation. And 99% of the times, all PF members agree that we need way better legislation to protect animals and nature. That alone would be a reason for me to join back and become a fairly active member.
> 
> The change started to happen when I didn´t always understand why some threads started to get closed or posts taken away. Before I did, but not anymore. Under B-word t we suddenly couldn´t agree or disagree like we have been doing for years, and the rules that was allowed and not seemed to shift with every poster. Personally I think current mods genuinely tried to please every body and got just so tired of all the reports and never ending palaver that they just want to end it all. I don´t blame them either. But I ask: maybe you mods have taken too much responsibility, maybe it is not your job to keep all happy? Maybe it is enough to react only when the language isn´t PC (including calling some an idiot etc) and when the content doesn´t belong to family forum? More freedom for you too. For me I would know what I can post and not to post, as I used to. I even got one post removed, but I knew why and it was fine, a mod did what she was supposed to do.
> 
> Eventually I left because I had no idea when or why some threads got closed and some not. That made me feel that I wasn´t even that two pennies worth, even after years of being a member and spending hours and hours here and trying to be as polite as I could. Knowing myself I know that if nothing changes in that respect I know that I am really not welcome. Point taken.
> 
> Cencorship has been mentioned a few times too. Maybe the term is wrong, but can we really talk about anything, providing we follow the rules? I feel that I really don´t want to talk about anything that people have different opinions about, whether it is dog related, politically related or even food related. I don´t have to join all threads, and that is fair enough. But I would like to feel that if I find something really important or interesting I could talk about it, even when people might disagree with me, and not face the whole thread being wiped out. And that feeling of excitement is for me the trigger that used to make me spend the hours here.
> 
> Thanks for reading, as I expect I will not get much response nor will this affect anything. But what do you expect, it is only two pennies worth anyway and with that you get nothing nowadays.


I absolutely get what you're saying about moderation , and as I've grown in confidence and experience in that role have found it easier to step back. I rarely intervene unless something/someone is reported or come across blatant rudeness bullying, nitpicking or the like. I also try hard to be fair and impartial but am a mere mortal, so sometimes get it wrong. 
I hope you will feel able to join in more threads now yu've broken the ice, and thanks for your very pertinent comments.


----------



## Westie Mum

noushka05 said:


> Politics encompasses most things though, from our NHS to our environment. Climate change has been politicised. Even animal welfare - fox hunting is a political issue, this is an animal lovers forum. And brexit, will have a severe impact on animal welfare, even on our pets. Wont we be allowed to talk about these things anymore? I dont understand why people dont just avoid threads which aggravate them personally.


Well yes, clearly there are some pet related topics that are political aswell and would be more in line with a pet forum as they affect the pets that we are here for anyway, but slating someone for how they voted in the referendum, that's not anything to do with pets, which is what is happening time and time again with all the brexit threads.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Lurcherlad said:


> Personally, I don't think politics or most other subjects should be banned from discussion in General Chat.
> 
> Just that posters be sensible, take a break to calm down if they are getting carried away and recognise that other members may not be as robust and may have some sensitivity to a particular subject or points raised.
> 
> Let common sense prevail.
> 
> If a post is reported to a Mod then they obviously have to check what's going on and make a judgement within the rules of the forum.
> 
> Hopefully, a gentle prod from them should be enough to calm it all down


Does this work?

I hate to be a Negative Nelly but as far as I can see this is the status quo, and yet here we are having this conversation. We're back to relying on users to police their own participation in such threads, which they've repeatedly shown they are unable to do.

I'm pessimistic that things can change this way, though I wish they would and hope they can.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

As for Marmite, I must be even more controversial and go against even their own marketing: I neither love it nor hate it.

I'm indifferent to it on toast, wouldn't normally choose it. Partial to the odd Twiglet, though not too many in one go.


----------



## Westie Mum

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I don't want to see political threads banned either. As others have said where do you draw the line as to what is political and what isn't?


Honestly, I really don't know. But so far Brexit has brought out the worst in some people.

I really can't remember the exact words now but I do recall reading the last thread sat with my mouth wide open with what was being said to certain people. Mods reminding people to play nice, posts being removed and mods reminding again to be civil and yet it still continued. So really, what is the answer ?


----------



## noushka05

Westie Mum said:


> Well yes, clearly there are some pet related topics that are political aswell and would be more in line with a pet forum as they affect the pets that we are here for anyway, but slating someone for how they voted in the referendum, that's not anything to do with pets, which is what is happening time and time again with all the brexit threads.


We should be trying to win people over with facts & evidence not slating them. And as I said it looks like brexit will have an adverse affect on our pets, on animals in industries, on wildlife - wont we be able to speak about this? Don't people want to be informed on a pet forum?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Westie Mum said:


> Honestly, I really don't know. But so far Brexit has brought out the worst in some people.
> 
> I really can't remember the exact words now but I do recall reading the last thread sat with my mouth wide open with what was being said to certain people. Mods reminding people to play nice, posts being removed and mods reminding again to be civil and yet it still continued. So really, what is the answer ?


3 strikes and out perhaps?


----------



## Westie Mum

noushka05 said:


> We should be trying to win people over with facts & evidence not slating them


But the slating has happened, each and every time ..... so what's the answer ?



noushka05 said:


> as I said it *looks like* brexit will have an adverse affect on .....


Tbh, there's a lot of speculation going on with what will or won't happen (I'm not saying it won't) and things are getting very heated during the speculation stage.

As you say, facts and evidence, not random people's opinions and speculation.


----------



## stockwellcat.

I love marmite on toast and I love twiglets. Mmm twiglets. Mmm lashings of marmite on toast.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

stockwellcat. said:


> I love marmite on toast and I love twiglets. Mmm twiglets. Mmm lashings of marmite on toast.


I used to love twiglets until they changed the recipe and they started burning my mouth so bad.


----------



## stuaz

Never actually tried marmite.... dunno if this makes me weird or not :Hilarious


----------



## Westie Mum

rottiepointerhouse said:


> 3 strikes and out perhaps?


Tbh I don't think 3 strikes would take some people very long and then they be screaming censorship ......

I honestly don't know the best solution, other than not have them here in the first place as there's plenty of other sites people can discuss brexit, leaving PF to be a bit more harmonious.

Just my personal opinion.


----------



## O2.0

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Have you forgotten all the vegans?


I know right?! I feel like there's a cheese clique I'm being ostracized from 



Westie Mum said:


> Honestly, I really don't know. But so far Brexit has brought out the worst in some people.
> 
> I really can't remember the exact words now but I do recall reading the last thread sat with my mouth wide open with what was being said to certain people. Mods reminding people to play nice, posts being removed and mods reminding again to be civil and yet it still continued. So really, what is the answer ?


You are not kidding! I've sat with my mouth agape as well, and I'm not easily shocked either. 
I also get the benefit of watching these threads late in to the night (different time zone) and by morning the worst of it is gone in to forum never never land - as it should be, you don't want to leave truly nasty posts up. Unfortunately though, that then leads to "Why was the thread closed? It wasn't that bad!" or "Why was that member banned? They didn't do anything wrong." And then the speculation begins and the BS begins, and, and, and... here we are.

@stockwellcat. I've never interacted with you, but I've seen you be dealt some pretty awful treatment, it's very big of you to apologize sincerely, I hope you too get an apology.


----------



## stockwellcat.

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I used to love twiglets until they changed the recipe and they started burning my mouth so bad.


I didn't realise they changed the recipe. I just buy the Caddy Tub 200g from Iceland for £1.50.

My mouth is watering. I need a marmite on toast or twiglet fix. Stockwellcat. goes to raid the cupboard.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

stuaz said:


> Never actually tried marmite.... dunno if this makes me weird or not :Hilarious


:Jawdrop:Jawdrop Well I hate to tell you but that means you cannot join the Marmite lovers clique. Well not until you provide photographic evidence that you have eaten some toast and marmite anyway


----------



## Siskin

Don’t like twiglets either, weird things.

Why do crisps all have to be strange flavours, what’s wrong with plain crisps with just salt and nowt else. It’s difficult to get 6 pack of plain crisps

Sounds like we ought to have a food moaning thread, mind you I moan about a lot of food these days, seem to have become quite picky in my old age


----------



## stockwellcat.

I forgot that Walkers do Marmite Crisps. Yum, yum.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Siskin said:


> Don't like twiglets either, weird things.
> 
> Why do crisps all have to be strange flavours, what's wrong with plain crisps with just salt and nowt else. It's difficult to get 6 pack of plain crisps
> 
> Sounds like we ought to have a food moaning thread, mind you I moan about a lot of food these days, seem to have become quite picky in my old age


Aren't they called Ready Salted? Now Marmite crisps - they are gorgeous - not that I eat any crisps these days but if I did those would be top of my list.


----------



## winterrose

I don't think that I have ever been in the general chat section?! 
I have to say, kudos to the moderators! I didn't realise how much their job entails, and how time-consuming their role is - they really don't deserve the disrespect and hate that I have seen them given (most namely, a poster in this thread).

I am not really in any position to comment on PF politics, due to the fact that I haven't actually seen a politics-based thread! I might come into this section a bit more though and see what they are about (if politics-based discussions remain allowed). Regardless, people need to respect that there are other, differentiating opinions on such matters, as not everybody will share the same views as them. There also tends to be a reason behind opinions, which should be acknowledged more. However, people shouldn't feel like they can't share their views without receiving a backlash of online abuse.

I will be happy with any decision that the moderators put forward, as at the end of the day, they are the people that maintain the site!



Boxerluver30 said:


> I think a good example of this is @winterrose . She is only 14 if (IIRC) but shows miles more maturity than some adults on here and in real life . I honestly thought she was closer to my age when I first started chatting to her on here. And whilst I don't want to compare people like you say some lessons could be learnt here


Thank you!  I am 14, but will be 15 in a couple of weeks 

Also, I have never tried marmite!  I have eaten vegemite before, which I liked though!


----------



## cheekyscrip

Westie Mum said:


> Gosh, this moved along at a quick pace while I had people here for lunch :Wideyed
> 
> And no, I absolutely hate marmite !
> 
> And why do people not seem to have proper Sunday dinners anymore. Pizza, pasta, cheese on toast ..... it's sunday :Jawdrop
> 
> FWIW I voted leave and I would again, because that it what I think is best. However, I don't need to explain or justify that to anyone, the same way anyone who voted to stay doesn't need to give me their reasons either. You think what you think, I think what I do.
> 
> That is NOT the reason I think politics threads shouldn't be here. It's purely because past threads have proved people cannot control themselves, the insults, name calling and upset it's caused to members.
> 
> Unless I'm missing posts, @cheekyscrip seems to be the only person posting on this thread wanting the political threads to continue ? Would it therefore not be easier for the forum as a whole to vote if they should be allowed or banned ?
> 
> I don't know you @stockwellcat. but I agree, I think you are owed an apology too tbh.


Strangely @noush


----------



## noushka05

Westie Mum said:


> But the slating has happened, each and every time ..... so what's the answer ?
> 
> Tbh, there's a lot of speculation going on with what will or won't happen (I'm not saying it won't) and things are getting very heated during the speculation stage.
> 
> As you say, facts and evidence, not random people's opinions and speculation.


Bar them from the thread? 

The threats are very real, check out what the BVA are saying.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

And these would be my 2nd choice but at 168 calories and 9.9 g of fat you can keep them


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Out of interest mods is it possible to ban members from some threads or sections of the forum without actually banning them from the forum altogether?


----------



## stockwellcat.

winterrose said:


> Also, I have never tried marmite!  I have eaten vegemite before, which I liked though!


I have had vegemite before. Although it is nice it wasn't for me. Cannot beat Marmite.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Siskin said:


> Don't like twiglets either, weird things.
> 
> Why do crisps all have to be strange flavours, what's wrong with plain crisps with just salt and nowt else. It's difficult to get 6 pack of plain crisps
> 
> Sounds like we ought to have a food moaning thread, mind you I moan about a lot of food these days, seem to have become quite picky in my old age


I don't like salt, so Ready Salted crisps are my least favourite flavour.

I have to get flavoured ones to hide the salt taste - or buy the Smiths ones with the blue sachets of salt. I don't add the salt and eat them plain: yum! :Hungry


----------



## Siskin

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Aren't they called Ready Salted? Now Marmite crisps - they are gorgeous - not that I eat any crisps these days but if I did those would be top of my list.


Not all shops stock ready salted in the other type of potato snacks, there's several I like but although they have ready salted type ones in the range very few shops stock them preferring all the flavoured ones.


----------



## winterrose

stockwellcat. said:


> I have had vegemite before. Although it is nice it wasn't for me. Cannot beat Marmite.


I think my mum has some marmite in the cupboards, so I'll try some on a sandwich tomorrow and see how it goes


----------



## Westie Mum

O2.0 said:


> You are not kidding! I've sat with my mouth agape as well, and I'm not easily shocked either.
> I also get the benefit of watching these threads late in to the night (different time zone) and by morning the worst of it is gone in to forum never never land - as it should be, you don't want to leave truly nasty posts up. Unfortunately though, that then leads to "Why was the thread closed? It wasn't that bad!" or "Why was that member banned? They didn't do anything wrong." And then the speculation begins and the BS begins, and, and, and... here we are.
> 
> @stockwellcat. I've never interacted with you, but I've seen you be dealt some pretty awful treatment, it's very big of you to apologize sincerely, I hope you too get an apology.


Ive had a lot going on in my life the last few weeks so not been sleeping, hence why I've seen some of the real nasty stuff before it's deleted. I wouldn't normally see it as I'm gone before it starts and as you say, deleted before I'd normally log in.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a bit odd .... I just can't fathom out how anyone would think it's ok to speak/type to another person that way.

My son in law is very politically minded and he voted to stay. We've had many a conversation over the last 2 years which normally ends with something along the lines of "well I still think you're wrong .... but do you want chocolate or cheesecake for pudding". I'm not yelling at him or chucking his desert at him!

We are adults, we behave like adults and we talk to each other as adults. Why is that so difficult for people to do here


----------



## MollySmith

I feel that too many spend too long on PF going over and over the same stuff when they could write to their MP or actually get out and campaign. It may not get results but it probably has more impact than this very small corner of the internet. It’s why I walk away.


----------



## winterrose

I am not the biggest fan of ready salted crisps either - ugh. I can handle cheese and onion, as well as vinegar (barely) but ready salted just doesn't appeal to me. I like prawn cocktail though  although, roast chicken sensations and thai sweet chilli sensations are the best!


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

MollySmith said:


> I feel that too many spend too long on PF going over and over the same stuff when they could write to their MP or actually get out and campaign. It may not get results but it probably has more impact than this very small corner of the internet. It's why I walk away.


How do you know they don't do both though? I see these comments (from members in general not just yours) about what people could be doing instead of spending time on here but firstly they might do those things as well and secondly those that don't maybe don't because they can't. Its never that cut and dried.


----------



## Sacrechat

MollySmith said:


> I feel that too many spend too long on PF going over and over the same stuff when they could write to their MP or actually get out and campaign. It may not get results but it probably has more impact than this very small corner of the internet. It's why I walk away.


It's the reason why I don't even bother to read them in the first place. Attacking people on a forum such as this just for holding a different point of view isn't going to change a single thing.


----------



## Westie Mum

noushka05 said:


> Bar them from the thread?
> 
> The threats are very real, check out what the BVA are saying.


I don't think banning someone from one thread is possible here.

I will have a look, thank you


----------



## noushka05

MollySmith said:


> I feel that too many spend too long on PF going over and over the same stuff when they could write to their MP or actually get out and campaign. It may not get results but it probably has more impact than this very small corner of the internet. It's why I walk away.


I for one, do all that as well. I'm doing all I can before time runs out, then at least I'll know I did my best.


----------



## stockwellcat.

rottiepointerhouse said:


> And these would be my 2nd choice but at 168 calories and 9.9 g of fat you can keep them


@stockwellcat. is drooling now. Pickled Onion Crisps, Marmite on toast and Twiglets. That's it tempt me to raid the kitchen cupboards before I go to bed.


----------



## MollySmith

Westie Mum said:


> Ive had a lot going on in my life the last few weeks so not been sleeping, hence why I've seen some of the real nasty stuff before it's deleted. I wouldn't normally see it as I'm gone before it starts and as you say, deleted before I'd normally log in.
> 
> I dunno, maybe I'm just a bit odd .... I just can't fathom out how anyone would think it's ok to speak/type to another person that way.
> 
> My son in law is very politically minded and he voted to stay. We've had many a conversation over the last 2 years which normally ends with something along the lines of "well I still think you're wrong .... but do you want chocolate or cheesecake for pudding". I'm not yelling at him or chucking his desert at him!
> 
> We are adults, we behave like adults and we talk to each other as adults. Why is that so difficult for people to do here


Agree. I can't suss it out either. I have many friends with different opinions. I realised how long I spent on here watching folk in cliques verballing bashing each other and thought really!? And realised I was doing the same and the thought maybe that's how people talk at home. And it was a horrible thought.

Outside PF I raise awareness of childlessness by going out and talking about my losses and going out and talking face to face is so much more liberating if not painfully revealing than on a forum but.. it means honest answers and, unlike forums, people are polite, thoughtful and if they don't like it, they don't call me a miserable bitch which has happened on here. It's remarkably easy to hide behind a keyboard. I call it cowardice.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

stockwellcat. said:


> @stockwellcat. is drooling now. Pickled Onion Crisps. Marmite and Twiglets. That's it tempt me to raid the kichen cupboards before I go to bed.


Walk away from the crisps SWC and be careful with the marmite - its very salty and not good for your blood pressure. sorry to be a party pooper


----------



## Westie Mum

Banana’s on toast is the best thing ever  and crisps, hmmmmm I’m a fan of BBQ hula hoops and quavers (rarely get either as OH eats them all !)


----------



## MollySmith

noushka05 said:


> I for one, do all that as well. I'm doing all I can before time runs out, then at least I'll know I did my best.


Absolutely and I've always respected you for that. There are many who don't or hijack political threads having said they didn't vote that really piss me off


----------



## Siskin

Westie Mum said:


> Banana's on toast is the best thing ever  and crisps, hmmmmm I'm a fan of BBQ hula hoops and quavers (rarely get either as OH eats them all !)


We often pop bananas and chocolate wrapped up in foil on the bbq, yum yum


----------



## cheekyscrip

Westie Mum said:


> Gosh, this moved along at a quick pace while I had people here for lunch :Wideyed
> 
> And no, I absolutely hate marmite !
> 
> And why do people not seem to have proper Sunday dinners anymore. Pizza, pasta, cheese on toast ..... it's sunday :Jawdrop
> 
> FWIW I voted leave and I would again, because that it what I think is best. However, I don't need to explain or justify that to anyone, the same way anyone who voted to stay doesn't need to give me their reasons either. You think what you think, I think what I do.
> 
> That is NOT the reason I think politics threads shouldn't be here. It's purely because past threads have proved people cannot control themselves, the insults, name calling and upset it's caused to members.
> 
> Unless I'm missing posts, @cheekyscrip seems to be the only person posting on this thread wanting the political threads to continue ? Would it therefore not be easier for the forum as a whole to vote if they should be allowed or banned ?
> 
> I don't know you @stockwellcat. but I agree, I think you are owed an apology too tbh.


How then @noushka05 thread went on about 50 plus pages without my contributions?

Jokes like asaid.

Why I want political threads?

Please, realise it is not about me or you or even pf.

The oligarchs whose loudspeaker is Putin are ruthless, greedy gangsters.

The Pigs. Not a conspiracy theory. There is an army of astroturfing trolls hired just to brainwash.
Discord between USA and EU, splitting EU is just what they want.

Brexit, election of Trump is just what they want.

I was once offered a job for them which refused no matter what money.

Those oligarchs care nothing about human rights, animal rights or environment.
They laugh at democracy.

They are just selfish, greedy and ruthless.

I am trying in my clumsy way to use any platform I can to make people aware of those powers rising and where it will put us all and our planet.

I do not care if it makes me popular here or not or even if I thread on a toe or two.

Nationalism, racism and tyranny are on the rise and we all if we have any survival instinct should try to stop.

Thank you all for reading it.


----------



## MollySmith

rottiepointerhouse said:


> How do you know they don't do both though? I see these comments (from members in general not just yours) about what people could be doing instead of spending time on here but firstly they might do those things as well and secondly those that don't maybe don't because they can't. Its never that cut and dried.


Ob completely agree, yes we can't say for sure but I've a fairly good idea who might. It would be perhaps constructive if those who do something else share what they do as it makes what can be a bashing thread, a constructive one.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Well hats off to everyone who has taken part in this thread as I never would have believed it would still be running 23 pages later. No wonder I am behind with my report typing. The one I should have been doing this evening is only a quarter done so early start for me tomorrow


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

cheekyscrip said:


> How then @noushka05 thread went on about 50 plus pages without my contributions?
> 
> Jokes like asaid.
> 
> Why I want political threads?
> 
> Please, realise it is not about me or you or even pf.
> 
> The oligarchs whose loudspeaker is Putin are ruthless, greedy gangsters.
> 
> The Pigs. Not a conspiracy theory. There is an army of astroturfing trolls hired just to brainwash.
> Discord between USA and EU, splitting EU is just what they want.
> 
> Brexit, election of Trump is just what they want.
> 
> I was once offered a job for them which refused no matter what money.
> 
> Those oligarchs care nothing about human rights, animal rights or environment.
> They laugh at democracy.
> 
> They are just selfish, greedy and ruthless.
> 
> I am trying in my clumsy way to use any platform I can to make people aware of those powers rising and where it will put us all and our planet.
> 
> I do not care if it makes me popular here or not or even if I thread on a toe or two.
> 
> Nationalism, racism and tyranny are on the rise and we all if we have any survival instinct should try to stop.
> 
> Thank you all for reading it.


I respect your efforts, Cheeky, but I just don't agree that each and every platform is appropriate for spreading such information. Sorry.


----------



## MollySmith

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Walk away from the crisps SWC and be careful with the marmite - its very salty and not good for your blood pressure. sorry to be a party pooper


I can't eat any, they all give me migraines. I think they are about the only processed food that I have had. Kettle Chips were a nice treat :Sorry


----------



## kimthecat

Sacremist said:


> Shite!


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious That is so obvious now you've said it .

so Hot Sausage and marmite 
Cold jelly and dog shite , :Vomit

Well that's certainly lowered the tone


----------



## Westie Mum

cheekyscrip said:


> Strangely @noush


I did say "unless I'm missing posts", although I don't think noushka has posted before I typed that


----------



## Sandysmum

Maybe a section labled 'controversial' and a line saying 'you might want to avoid this catagory', that way it's very clear to members that it might get a bit heated.


----------



## delca1

Siskin said:


> We often pop bananas and chocolate wrapped up in foil on the bbq, yum yum


 That is so wrong! Bananas should be eaten as they are (minus the skin of course) or sliced up mixed with thick cream, as for melting chocolate...no.no.no!


----------



## O2.0

Westie Mum said:


> Ive had a lot going on in my life the last few weeks so not been sleeping, hence why I've seen some of the real nasty stuff before it's deleted. I wouldn't normally see it as I'm gone before it starts and as you say, deleted before I'd normally log in.
> 
> I dunno, maybe I'm just a bit odd .... I just can't fathom out how anyone would think it's ok to speak/type to another person that way.
> 
> My son in law is very politically minded and he voted to stay. We've had many a conversation over the last 2 years which normally ends with something along the lines of "well I still think you're wrong .... but do you want chocolate or cheesecake for pudding". I'm not yelling at him or chucking his desert at him!
> 
> We are adults, we behave like adults and we talk to each other as adults. Why is that so difficult for people to do here


It's kind of like you say in dog training, it's about the relationship. 
You and your son in law have a relationship outside of your political views and you have an incentive to preserve that relationship, so you're not going to do or say anything to jeopardize it. 
Here, in a lot of instances, that relationship piece is missing and people go nuts. Which goes back to a very good point made early on in this thread. If you wouldn't say it in person, you probably shouldn't say it online.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

delca1 said:


> That is so wrong! Bananas should be eaten as they are (minus the skin of course) or sliced up mixed with thick cream, as for melting chocolate...no.no.no!


Why did the banana go to the doctor?

He wasn't peeling well!


----------



## stockwellcat.

I have had bananas on toast and they are lush.


----------



## MollySmith

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I respect your efforts, Cheeky, but I just don't agree that each and every platform is appropriate for spreading such information. Sorry.


I think... and it goes back to my comment about campaigns but I feel there are more effective places to raise awareness. Blogs, political parties, even thinking about being a candidate, aiming to write in papers or Huffington post or something will have more reach than Pet Forum. I'm sure every issue must have a forum or social media channel of some sort


----------



## stockwellcat.

I think I will sign out as this is the wrong time of evening to be talking about food for me.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Does this work?
> 
> I hate to be a Negative Nelly but as far as I can see this is the status quo, and yet here we are having this conversation. We're back to relying on users to police their own participation in such threads, which they've repeatedly shown they are unable to do.
> 
> I'm pessimistic that things can change this way, though I wish they would and hope they can.


Only if people remain sensible, I know 

I just don't think it's reasonable for everybody who wants to discuss a subject rationally (with one or two exceptions) to be penalised for the sake of a few who take it too far.

I'm not sure there's a simple answer.


----------



## Sacrechat

This is what I like on toast:










It has all the fat taken out. Make it up with some water then spread on toast. Delicious!


----------



## KittenKong

stockwellcat. said:


> I forgot that Walkers do Marmite Crisps. Yum, yum.


Bring back Smith's Bovril flavour I say!


----------



## Rafa

I don't believe it's realistic or good to have a section on the forum where a 'free for all' can take place, where members who don't agree can threaten or insult each other.

I can imagine how tedious and tiring it must be for the Mods to be constantly monitoring and trying to manage the volatile, political threads.

Why should they have to do that?

If some members can't or won't abide by the forum rules, why should they have someone running round behind them?

IMO, no more Brexit threads. Those are the ones where sniping, insulting, misplaced 'humour' and offence all appear to take place.

Some voted Leave and some Remain. They will never agree or capitulate, yet appear to become very excited about having the last word, which will never happen.

Really, Brexit has been 'done to death'.


----------



## kimthecat

lullabydream said:


> I would have said Sprite...but since am not a marmite lover I always thought it was a good thing marmite rhymed with shite


 Sprite thats my favourite canned drink !


----------



## Westie Mum

MollySmith said:


> and the thought maybe that's how people talk at home. And it was a horrible thought


Horrible thought indeed !



MollySmith said:


> it means honest answers and, unlike forums, people are polite, thoughtful and if they don't like it, they don't call me a miserable bitch which has happened on here.


Wow  that's awful


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Sprite thats my favourite canned drink !


Only with lager. Love a shandy in hot weather.


----------



## O2.0

What is wrong with you people? 

The best thing on toast is avocado and some garden tomatoes *drool*


----------



## ForestWomble

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Why did the banana go to the doctor?
> 
> He wasn't peeling well!


:Hilarious



kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious That is so obvious now you've said it .
> 
> so Hot Sausage and marmite
> Cold jelly and dog shite , :Vomit
> 
> Well that's certainly lowered the tone


My thought was:

Hot sausage and marmite
Cold jelly and dust mites


----------



## SusieRainbow

I might have to close the thread if you can't agree on *Marmite !

*


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

SusieRainbow said:


> I might have to close the thread if you can't agree on *Marmite !
> 
> *


Fascism!


----------



## SusieRainbow

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Fascism!


Right, naughty corner, you're banned !


----------



## O2.0

marmite offends me.


----------



## Westie Mum

cheekyscrip said:


> How then @noushka05 thread went on about 50 plus pages without my contributions?
> 
> Jokes like asaid.
> 
> Why I want political threads?
> 
> Please, realise it is not about me or you or even pf.
> 
> The oligarchs whose loudspeaker is Putin are ruthless, greedy gangsters.
> 
> The Pigs. Not a conspiracy theory. There is an army of astroturfing trolls hired just to brainwash.
> Discord between USA and EU, splitting EU is just what they want.
> 
> Brexit, election of Trump is just what they want.
> 
> I was once offered a job for them which refused no matter what money.
> 
> Those oligarchs care nothing about human rights, animal rights or environment.
> They laugh at democracy.
> 
> They are just selfish, greedy and ruthless.
> 
> I am trying in my clumsy way to use any platform I can to make people aware of those powers rising and where it will put us all and our planet.
> 
> I do not care if it makes me popular here or not or even if I thread on a toe or two.
> 
> Nationalism, racism and tyranny are on the rise and we all if we have any survival instinct should try to stop.
> 
> Thank you all for reading it.


But even here you are name calling and honestly, I can't take any ones post serious when they have to resort to such measures ...... especially as one of the problems with the brexit threads is the name calling !


----------



## SusieRainbow

O2.0 said:


> marmite offends me.


You're just a snowflake !


----------



## noushka05

Rafa said:


> I don't believe it's realistic or good to have a section on the forum where a 'free for all' can take place, where members who don't agree can threaten or insult each other.
> 
> I can imagine how tedious and tiring it must be for the Mods to be constantly monitoring and trying to manage the volatile, political threads.
> 
> Why should they have to do that?
> 
> If some members can't or won't abide by the forum rules, why should they have someone running round behind them?
> 
> IMO, no more Brexit threads. Those are the ones where sniping, insulting, misplaced 'humour' and offence all appear to take place.
> 
> Some voted Leave and some Remain. They will never agree or capitulate, yet appear to become very excited about having the last word, which will never happen.
> 
> Really, Brexit has been 'done to death'.


And yet brexit, if we leave without a deal, will affect almost every aspect of our lives in one way or another. It will be nigh on impossible not to mention it then. Some are merely trying to raise awareness now of the looming catastrophe in the hope enough people will look objectively at all the evidence whilst we still have a chance to do something about it.


----------



## O2.0

SusieRainbow said:


> You're just a snowflake !


If I were I'd be evaporated by now


----------



## MollySmith

Marmite... well it depends on who voted that they like it, who voted that they’d dislike and what about those who didn’t vote because it’s only flipping stuff you spread on toast. And if the lot who like Bovril want to oust Marmite because those jars are a bit similar and we can’t have people buying one beef one and a not beef one without a trading deal. This demands a referendum and a white paper (with toast crumbs).


----------



## SusieRainbow

MollySmith said:


> Marmite... well it depends on who voted that they like it, who voted that they'd dislike and what about those who didn't vote because it's only flipping stuff you spread on toast. And if the lot who like Bovril want to oust Marmite because those jars are a bit similar and we can't have people buying one beef one and a not beef one without a trading deal. This demands a referendum and a white paper (with toast crumbs).


You forgot to mention Vegemite !


----------



## MollySmith

SusieRainbow said:


> You forgot to mention Vegemite !


Oh no.... mite racist!


----------



## MollySmith

One thing I would like to raise in all seriousness is thread titles and being clear on content within. Some are so obscure! 

Also if a thread might trigger because it features cruelty or talks about a contentious subject then a warning in the title is useful. Whilst horrible people do awful things and it’s good to be aware, it can upset those who suffer with anxiety or other mental health worries. I have in the past and videos about cruelty stay with me for days and weeks because I’m powerless to help. I’m sure that I’m not the only one. A note in the thread title helps people to decide if or when they want to watch.


----------



## SusieRainbow

MollySmith said:


> One thing I would like to raise in all seriousness is thread titles and being clear on content within. Some are so obscure!
> 
> Also if a thread might trigger because it features cruelty or talks about a contentious subject then a warning in the title is useful. Whilst horrible people do awful things and it's good to be aware, it can upset those who suffer with anxiety or other mental health worries. I have in the past and videos about cruelty stay with me for days and weeks because I'm powerless to help. I'm sure that I'm not the only one. A note in the thread title helps people to decide if or when they want to watch.


I've edited the thread title you mentioned. I'll be dreaming about it, utterly heartbreaking, more so after nearly losing my beautiful girl last week.


----------



## lorilu

Ceiling Kitty said:


> As for Marmite, I must be even more controversial and go against even their own marketing: I neither love it nor hate it.
> o.


I don't even know what it is. (ducks and runs)


----------



## Goblin

MollySmith said:


> Marmite... well it depends on who voted that they like it, who voted that they'd dislike and what about those who didn't vote because it's only flipping stuff you spread on toast. And if the lot who like Bovril want to oust Marmite because those jars are a bit similar and we can't have people buying one beef one and a not beef one without a trading deal. This demands a referendum and a white paper (with toast crumbs).


Wish brexit was like that. It's not a personal matter of taste and if you like it or not only affects you. Brexit has a major impact on people no matter if the agree with it or not.

Somebody raised the argument that this is a petforum so political threads should not be allowed.. brexit will affect pets. Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) is politics (certainly isn't facts) but affects pets. You could cite loads of examples but in short politics affects pets.

Politics, religion and any topic which can have "zealots" be that raw feeding, vegetarianism, pedigree dog breeding can all descend quite quickly where people take offense. Mods do a good job in general of controlling things. You can never stop people from taking offence however, especially as the written form isn't the same as speaking to someone where body language and tone plays a part. It's why if you don't like a topic or feel you'd get too riled up about it, simply don't take part in that thread. Plenty of other threads available.


----------



## stuaz

rottiepointerhouse said:


> :Jawdrop:Jawdrop Well I hate to tell you but that means you cannot join the Marmite lovers clique. Well not until you provide photographic evidence that you have eaten some toast and marmite anyway


Bully!!

Quick where's the report button!?!?


----------



## Linda Weasel

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I think you obviously missed the goings on that caused me to start this thread. I'm really happy you have friends/relatives and work colleagues but spend some time in General Chat and you will appreciate there are lots of members who don't have those support networks or outlets. We've all got very different reasons for using the forum it just so happens we all love animals (or hopefully we do). There are many retired members, disabled or in ill health members, people who live alone and those like me who work from home and are not into socialising. I think its easy to say its just a forum and not real life but for some people it is a significant part of their life and one of the few places they can discuss topics that they wouldn't or can't in real life. I think we are all guilty of being sharp at times and its good to have these sort of discussions where we air grievances rather than letting them fester and turn into such a negative undercurrent that the bickering becomes disruptive to other users which has been going on recently. None of us want to see members feeling they are being ganged up on or that there is a behind the scenes campaign against them. That is more the sort of issue I'm referring to with this thread rather than a newbie getting a few sharp comments.


Sorry if it came across wrong. I was just trying to say that perhaps, online, it's good to think about how your comments will be taken by somebody who can't see your face at the time.
My comment about friends, etc, wasn't meant to sound smug, and had you been speaking to me face to face, and heard my tone of voice , then I hope you would have been able to see that. However I guess that's how it read to you, because it's online.
That is the issue isn't it?


----------



## Kimmikins

Gosh, I’ve tried to read through and keep on top of this thread...but other than marmite (devil food FWIW) it’s all a bit beyond me. I never read the threads on Brexit, or the NHS or anything else that I know will go the same way. I skip over people who’s posts irritate me. 

TBH I rarely post here anymore. I still lurk and read and like the odd post, but something has changed here of late and I just don’t find spending the energy to participate very forthcoming.

On the whole a forum is just a forum, but occasionally members cross over into RL and I interact with them more on FB, IG and Twitter.


----------



## Magyarmum

SusieRainbow said:


> I might have to close the thread if you can't agree on *Marmite !
> 
> *


I have the feeling I'm about to be banned ......

Marmite is HORRIBLE and anyone liking it on toast must be mad.

Toast should ONLY be eaten spread with Marmalade.


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> I have the feeling I'm about to be banned ......
> 
> Marmite is HORRIBLE and anyone liking it on toast must be mad.
> 
> Toast should ONLY be eaten spread with Marmalade.


Oh What ! Mamalade, yuck . I hate it ! :Hilarious


----------



## stockwellcat.

Magyarmum said:


> I have the feeling I'm about to be banned ......
> 
> Marmite is HORRIBLE and anyone liking it on toast must be mad.
> 
> Toast should ONLY be eaten spread with Marmalade.


Marmalade :Vomit


----------



## kimthecat

Oh oh ! I see another war acoming between Marmiters and Marmaladers


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> Oh What ! Mamalade, yuck . I hate it ! :Hilarious


You're just saying that to be awkward and to disagree on principle.

And you've not given me any facts to support your opinion

I have absolutely no doubt that I'm absolutely correct in saying that Marmalade on toast is far better than Marmite.

It's about time you acknowledged I'm always right about everything including marmalade and you're always wrong especially over Marmite!

So there!

Just kidding!


----------



## Jonescat

What do people thing of Marmite chocolate then? 

I have a breakfast plate for my Marmite on toast that has a picture of a jar of Marmite on it. Marmaladers just have normal plates, no loyalty at all.


----------



## lymorelynn

No Marmite haters will be banned. Discussion of Marmite is welcomed even if it is the most vile stuff ever made :Vomit


----------



## stockwellcat.

Magyarmum said:


> And you've not given me any facts to support your opinion.


10 things you should know about Marmite. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13541148


----------



## Magyarmum

stockwellcat. said:


> 10 things you should know about Marmite.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13541148


As I suspected .... FAKE NEWS!


----------



## tyg'smum

kimthecat said:


> Oh oh ! I see another war acoming between Marmiters and Marmaladers


I have Marmite on my toast during the week, but on Sundays I have marmalade. Please help.


----------



## KittenKong

Can you believe this is how they used to promote Marmite?

Wouldn't be allowed today!


----------



## MollySmith

Goblin said:


> Wish brexit was like that. It's not a personal matter of taste and if you like it or not only affects you. Brexit has a major impact on people no matter if the agree with it or not.
> 
> Somebody raised the argument that this is a petforum so political threads should not be allowed.. brexit will affect pets. Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) is politics (certainly isn't facts) but affects pets. You could cite loads of examples but in short politics affects pets.
> 
> Politics, religion and any topic which can have "zealots" be that raw feeding, vegetarianism, pedigree dog breeding can all descend quite quickly where people take offense. Mods do a good job in general of controlling things. You can never stop people from taking offence however, especially as the written form isn't the same as speaking to someone where body language and tone plays a part. It's why if you don't like a topic or feel you'd get too riled up about it, simply don't take part in that thread. Plenty of other threads available.


It was a very gentle teasing thread. I do wish Brexit was that simple too Goblin, we would all worry a lot less I'm sure


----------



## MollySmith

SusieRainbow said:


> I've edited the thread title you mentioned. I'll be dreaming about it, utterly heartbreaking, more so after nearly losing my beautiful girl last week.


Thank you and massive hugs to you too

I hope @Wild With Roxi has seen the thread and takes note to provide warnings as will others in future. Another downside to being a moderator


----------



## havoc

lorilu said:


> I don't even know what it is. (ducks and runs)


It's a yeast extract spread with a very strong and distinct taste. People either love it or hate it, other than one person on here who says they can take it or leave it there's generally no middle ground. So much so that their advertising even plays on it and it has entered the language to describe anything which causes much the same reaction - a film which people either love or hate would be a marmite film. Wishy washy things like marmalade could never hope to gain such acclaim


----------



## Magyarmum

tyg'smum said:


> I have Marmite on my toast during the week, but on Sundays I have marmalade. Please help.


Oh dear that must be extremely painful!

Have you consulted your GP to see whether there's anything you can take for your dilemma?

Alternatively, you could always go for counselling to help you kick the habit, although I'm not quite sure whether the NHS will pay for for treating both Marmite and marmalade. I think it'll have to be one or the other.

If you're strong though I'm sure before long you'll beat this dreadful addiction.

Good luck!.


----------



## cheekyscrip

MollySmith said:


> It was a very gentle teasing thread. I do wish Brexit was that simple too Goblin, we would all worry a lot less I'm sure


Not only Brexit but any threads about environment etc are political after all. Climate change? Food waste?

One more comment : this thread was meant to discuss some important issues on pf?

Just wonder why it is so hard to actually be able to do it here?

IMO some members do not want anything done?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

O2.0 said:


> marmite offends me.


:Jawdrop Seriously though I don't think I've met any Americans who "get" the whole Marmite thing. My sister used to take jars of it back and even her children think its disgusting.



Linda Weasel said:


> Sorry if it came across wrong. I was just trying to say that perhaps, online, it's good to think about how your comments will be taken by somebody who can't see your face at the time.
> My comment about friends, etc, wasn't meant to sound smug, and had you been speaking to me face to face, and heard my tone of voice , then I hope you would have been able to see that. However I guess that's how it read to you, because it's online.
> That is the issue isn't it?


Oh gosh no, it isn't an issue and I didn't think you were being smug, I was just pointing out that we are all different with regards to background/family life/social networks and for many this place offers a great deal of friendship and support especially when crap happens.



Magyarmum said:


> I have the feeling I'm about to be banned ......
> 
> Marmite is HORRIBLE and anyone liking it on toast must be mad.
> 
> Toast should ONLY be eaten spread with Marmalade.


I have reported you and requested a ban for such personal insults to Marmite lovers 



cheekyscrip said:


> Not only Brexit but any threads about environment etc are political after all. Climate change? Food waste?
> 
> One more comment : this thread was meant to discuss some important issues on pf?
> 
> Just wonder why it is so hard to actually be able to do it here?
> 
> IMO some members do not want anything done?


Perhaps because some people are not coming out and saying what they mean. What would you like to discuss that we haven't already touched on apart from Brexit that is? Yes the thread has descended into humour at times but personally I find a bit of banter can sometimes build bridges or demonstrate how silly situations have become.


----------



## O2.0

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes the thread has descended into humour at times but personally I find a bit of banter can sometimes build bridges or demonstrate how silly situations have become.


Absolutely. 
We've been chastised before for using humor when things get heated, but for me at least it's a good way to de-escalate and re-set if you will. Kind of like when dogs play and they're getting too aroused, starting to spill over in to aggression, stable dogs will stop themselves and insert play pauses. 
I see humor (sorry, humoUr) "pauses" in a discussion like this one the same way


----------



## SusieRainbow

stockwellcat. said:


> 10 things you should know about Marmite.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13541148





lymorelynn said:


> No Marmite haters will be banned. Discussion of Marmite is welcomed even if it is the most vile stuff ever made :Vomit


I'm afraid I can't agree with this !I just had to leave my lap-top and go into the kitchen in search of marmite on toast. I'm happy to say it was easily sourced, assembled and devoured.
Now I think food related threads should be banned because they are playing havoc with my Slimming World eating plan !


----------



## stockwellcat.

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm afraid I can't agree with this !I just had to leave my lap-top and go into the kitchen in search of marmite on toast. I'm happy to say it was easily sourced, assembled and devoured.
> Now I think food related threads should be banned because they are playing havoc with my Slimming World eating plan !


I woke up craving marmite on toast this morning thanks to the marmite conversation last night  So this morning I had to have marmite on toast and a packet of pickled onion crisps


----------



## SusieRainbow

stockwellcat. said:


> I woke up craving marmite on toast this morning thanks to the marmite conversation last night  So this morning I had to have marmite on toast and a packet of pickled onion crisps


Good to note you went for the healthy option ! The crisps weren't Monster Munch by any chance ?


----------



## stockwellcat.

SusieRainbow said:


> Good to note you went for the healthy option ! The crisps weren't Monster Munch by any chance ?


Not Monster Munch. Walkers Pickled Onion crisps.


----------



## Jobeth

Do you keep a record of which posters are causing the issues on the political threads? I don't take part but it seems a shame to ban discussion on politics (where do you draw the line?) if only a couple of posters are the cause. I wonder if they should be the ones that are banned from participating if they ignore warnings about being offensive/name calling.

On another forum I belong to they sometimes pre-moderate certain posters before banning them completely if they continue. They also take out the comment and leave 'This comment has been removed for breaching the terms and conditions of the site.' That way the thread still flows and you can see which posters are making inappropriate comments.

I agree with @cheekyscrip about focusing on the discussion. If people are getting upset/heated they should step away. It seems that people aren't reallybothered if they can't discuss/offer solutions to an issue and go off topic.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Jobeth said:


> Do you keep a record of which posters are causing the issues on the political threads? I don't take part but it seems a shame to ban discussion on politics (where do you draw the line?) if only a couple of posters are the cause. I wonder if they should be the ones that are banned from participating if they ignore warnings about being offensive/name calling.
> 
> On another forum I belong to they sometimes pre-moderate certain posters before banning them completely if they continue. They also take out the comment and leave 'This comment has been removed for breaching the terms and conditions of the site.' That way the thread still flows and you can see which posters are making inappropriate comments.
> 
> I agree with @cheekyscrip about focusing on the discussion. If people are getting upset/heated they should step away. It seems that people aren't reallybothered if they can't discuss/offer solutions to an issue and go off topic.


We do keep coming back to the original topic but I think the situation concerned will need a lot of discussion between mods and the forum owner before any final decisions are made, and I haven't noticed any new comments - as in not made before - for several pages. So I would say that as far as it goes this thread has served it's purpose but keeping it open in case anyone comes up with a new argument.
It's actually been a really good thread, no lost tempers, flounces or name calling.


----------



## StormyThai

Jobeth said:


> They also take out the comment and leave 'This comment has been removed for breaching the terms and conditions of the site.' That way the thread still flows and you can see which posters are making inappropriate comments.


We do that here too..sometimes it just isn't possible


----------



## Jobeth

I think that whatever you decide you’ll have people who agree/disagree. I’m perfectly happy to go with what the moderators decide as I’ve never had any issues in the 8 years I’ve been here.


----------



## lullabydream

Jobeth said:


> If people are getting upset/heated they should step away.


I think that's the problem though .The ones that are getting enraged start naming calling, getting personal do not see anything wrong with their behaviour. Several warnings from moderators fall on deaf ears I don't know if that is truly because they do not realise it was aimed at then or because a few of them seem to be doing the same thing so it can't be them or that they have got away with it regardless many times before nothing really happened maybe a day later a word has been deleted but that's it

The mods are doing a wonderful job but they have even got abuse from people just for editing.

Like at @Westie Mum has said when you see how people have spoken to others and they are then called out for it because it's been reported and comments edited or removed, that's another part of the problem. Not only are people are mocked because of their opinions but also because they may have reported them. Isn't that again like bullies at school who when things are reported it can be a whole lot worse. To be honest though any of us should be reporting vile language, mocking etc if we don't find it appropriate even if we don't take part. All of us should do what we can to help others here, and not just think oh well I never liked them anyway let's walk on by. This is when cliques and the 'mean girls' of the forum arise.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

I do want this to be a thread for people to bring serious issues and concerns up though so amongst the jokes and the banter we can still talk business and put our serious hats back on.


----------



## kimthecat

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the Mods room!
Serious hat back on :
Perhaps an extra mod or two would help, I know last time we had lovely people volunteer and were disappointed they weren't chosen.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

lullabydream said:


> I think that's the problem though .The ones that are getting enraged start naming calling, getting personal do not see anything wrong with their behaviour. Several warnings from moderators fall on deaf ears I don't know if that is truly because they do not realise it was aimed at then or because a few of them seem to be doing the same thing so it can't be them or that they have got away with it regardless many times before nothing really happened maybe a day later a word has been deleted but that's it
> 
> The mods are doing a wonderful job but they have even got abuse from people just for editing.
> 
> Like at @Westie Mum has said when you see how people have spoken to others and they are then called out for it because it's been reported and comments edited or removed, that's another part of the problem. Not only are people are mocked because of their opinions but also because they may have reported them. Isn't that again like bullies at school who when things are reported it can be a whole lot worse. To be honest though any of us should be reporting vile language, mocking etc if we don't find it appropriate even if we don't take part. All of us should do what we can to help others here, and not just think oh well I never liked them anyway let's walk on by. This is when cliques and the 'mean girls' of the forum arise.


How about if we all agreed on an emoji that we could use when we read a post and think blimey that was a bit unkind - we as in members (or it could just be used my mods) can quote the post and just put the emoji which is a sort of shot across the bows saying hey you might think what you are saying is OK but I don't, if several people do that without having to make comments it might just pull the poster up a bit and make them think twice or go back and edit their post. I think we can all get OTT or too sharp with others, I don't think any of us posting on this thread haven't at times. I know I have and more recently (since I've been meditating) I have gone back and deleted or edited comments I've made. Sometimes I read a post and think OMG he/she must be having a bad day as they are not normally that sharp or unkind and perhaps they just don't realise they are as guilty as the people they are complaining about. I don't mean members or mods should be posting the emoji just because they don't agree, hell I'd have a box full of them if that were the case :Joyful but for name calling/bullying type posts.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the Mods room!
> Serious hat back on :
> Perhaps an extra mod or two would help, I know last time we had lovely people volunteer and were disappointed they weren't chosen.


I don't know, I'm not convinced that is the answer other than perhaps having one specifically to deal with General Chat/political threads. Sometimes too much modding can make people crosser because they feel threads are being closed unnecessarily and they've lost chance to reply. I think that does happen a bit more when we have new mods who haven't bedded in. I don't know what do the existing mods think?


----------



## Jonescat

I am bothered, but the jokes are to diffuse the situation. I think we could use that more in contentious threads, much as I might say "wise up" or "time out!"

And the marmite convo is fairly analogous to Brexit, the outcome just doesn't matter to anyone - therefore you can see how ridiculous the arguments are. Its illustrating the point about rational debate v emotion and opinion.


----------



## kimthecat

@rottiepointerhouse Ok . My own opinion is to leave it as it is . Yes it can be frustrating to find threads shut but sometimes that is just temporary and we can request it to be re-opened . I trust the Mods judgement . It would be nice to have a warning that my posts were going to be removed but I guess thats too time consuming and not practical .


rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sometimes I read a post and think OMG he/she must be having a bad day as they are not normally that sharp or unkind and perhaps they just don't realise they are as guilty as the people they are complaining about.


Yes , Ive noticed that and have been pulled up myself , but generally in real life and on forums , "those speak as I find " folk get a way with it because it is their normal behaviour where with a nicer person it sticks out more and they get pulled up .


----------



## JANICE199

*Something i had never understood is this. If a thread is going ok, even a bit heated, but then someone says something that we all know is likely to start an argument, why isn't that remark removed alone? If this happened surely it would be fairer all round. Just asking*


----------



## SusieRainbow

JANICE199 said:


> *Something i had never understood is this. If a thread is going ok, even a bit heated, but then someone says something that we all know is likely to start an argument, why isn't that remark removed alone? If this happened surely it would be fairer all round. Just asking*


It is if we're aware of it, i.e reported. Sometimes, if there becomes a lot of retaliation and arguing the thread is moved for further scrutiny and editing , and may be reinstated. 
We're not always aware of problems unless they are reported, specially when there's just one mod holding the fort.


----------



## Goblin

Jonescat said:


> And the marmite convo is fairly analogous to Brexit, the outcome just doesn't matter to anyone


Brexit matters to a lot of people and it's negative effects are being felt even now. It's effect will permeate throughout the UK and beyond. For many it's not a joking matter.

Marmite however... well it's supposed to be good for you. No wonder it tastes horrible


----------



## 3dogs2cats

SusieRainbow said:


> It is if we're aware of it, i.e reported. Sometimes, if there becomes a lot of retaliation and arguing the thread is moved for further scrutiny and editing , and may be reinstated.
> We're not always aware of problems unless they are reported, specially when there's just one mod holding the fort.


I find I don`t know if I should report or not, there have been some things that I have found pretty vile but then I think am I just been over sensitive? Not just on political threads but on pet related ones too, it`s hard to know if its the right thing to report or just ignore it! I tend to go with just ignore but as you say if people don`t report a post things can escalate quickly and rather than just the offending post being removed or edited quickly and the thread carries on, the whole thread gets closed which then goes on to cause more upset!


----------



## SusieRainbow

3dogs2cats said:


> I find I don`t know if I should report or not, there have been some things that I have found pretty vile but then I think am I just been over sensitive? Not just on political threads but on pet related ones too, it`s hard to know if its the right thing to report or just ignore it! I tend to go with just ignore but as you say if people don`t report a post things can escalate quickly and rather than just the offending post being removed or edited quickly and the thread carries on, the whole thread gets closed which then goes on to cause more upset!


Yes, please do report anything you consider inappropriate and give us a chance to put things right.


----------



## Jobeth

3dogs2cats said:


> I find I don`t know if I should report or not, there have been some things that I have found pretty vile but then I think am I just been over sensitive? Not just on political threads but on pet related ones too, it`s hard to know if its the right thing to report or just ignore it! I tend to go with just ignore but as you say if people don`t report a post things can escalate quickly and rather than just the offending post being removed or edited quickly and the thread carries on, the whole thread gets closed which then goes on to cause more upset!


My feelings are that reporting when you read something inappropriate is just a way to alert the moderators. They can then make the decision on what they think is best.

If moderators are receiving abuse for their decisions then that poster should receive a warning. If it happens again then it should be a ban.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> @rottiepointerhouse Ok . My own opinion is to leave it as it is . Yes it can be frustrating to find threads shut but sometimes that is just temporary and we can request it to be re-opened . I trust the Mods judgement . It would be nice to have a warning that my posts were going to be removed but I guess thats too time consuming and not practical .
> 
> Yes , Ive noticed that and have been pulled up myself , but generally in real life and on forums , "those speak as I find " folk get a way with it because it is their normal behaviour where with a *nicer person it sticks out more and they get pulled up* .


Its so difficult though because we are all different and feel passionately about different things. Just as in real life some people are happy to say what they think and will spend time providing evidence to back up what they say but some will still get upset about it because they don't share those views or they don't want to face up to certain things. Others prefer not to get involved in anything remotely controversial and stick to the fun threads or the supportive ones or the how lovely is my dog/cat/rat threads. We just have to find a way to get the outspoken ones to accept there is a line they mustn't cross without sanctions being applied.


----------



## MollySmith

I honestly think people need to say sorry or admit they made a mistake or overstepped a line.

@rottiepointerhouse i hope it's okay to mention this but I overstepped on a thread recently and was really worried I'd upset you. We've never met but I admire your passion for sharing even if we don't always agree 100% and that's it in a way, we don't always have to agree but respect each other and appreciate that room for error and misunderstanding.

I know that I should not have been posting on here lately because of a painful, emotional time outside PF that I chose not to speak about on the forums which influenced my behaviour. So the fault was mine and I didn't want to fall out over my inability to separate PF and life or my reluctance to share the background here.

I just feel that there's a need to say sorry I ballsed up and that rarely happens. A bit more of that would help. Especially in politics. We don't have to behave like it's Prime Minister's Question Time!


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

MollySmith said:


> I honestly think people need to say sorry or admit they made a mistake or overstepped a line.
> 
> @rottiepointerhouse i hope it's okay to mention this but I overstepped on a thread recently and was really worried I'd upset you. We've never met but I admire your passion for sharing even if we don't always agree 100% and that's it in a way, we don't always have to agree but respect each other and appreciate that room for error and misunderstanding.
> 
> I know that I should not have been posting on here lately because of a painful, emotional time outside PF that I chose not to speak about on the forums which influenced my behaviour. So the fault was mine and I didn't want to fall out over my inability to separate PF and life or my reluctance to share the background here.
> 
> I just feel that there's a need to say sorry I ballsed up and that rarely happens. A bit more of that would help. Especially in politics. We don't have to behave like it's Prime Minister's Question Time!


Thank you  If its the post I'm thinking about (something to do with the food doctor) its OK, it did sting and I posted a bit of a scathing reply but then I thought about it and decided to let it go so I deleted my reply. No hard feelings.

While we are having a bit of a spring clean I'd like to apologise to anyone I've upset with my passionate views on health and animal welfare. I know I can get too much for a lot of people but please know I'd do anything for anyone if they need help and have a kind/caring side as well as a big gob


----------



## Westie Mum

@SusieRainbow - is there a way to ban someone from just one thread ? It was mentioned earlier and i said i didnt think there was, but do you know for sure ?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Westie Mum said:


> @SusieRainbow - is there a way to ban someone from just one thread ? It was mentioned earlier and i said i didnt think there was, but do you know for sure ?


Yes, it's possible to put a 'reply ban ' in place.


----------



## westie~ma

Just going to leave this here ... it's my newest find


----------



## Westie Mum

SusieRainbow said:


> Yes, it's possible to put a 'reply ban ' in place.


Ahhhhh - well if thats the case, surely the mods know who are the repeated offenders in the brexit threads, so couldnt a ban be placed on such threads - either with a warning beforehand or not. Rather than you keep posting "please keep it civil" not aimed at any one person and then the select few carry on with their nasty comments ignoring you, because clearly they think it doesnt apply to them ?



westie~ma said:


> Just going to leave this here ... it's my newest find
> 
> View attachment 365247


OMG - how nice is it ?!?!?!?! It takes me ages to make a cheese sandwhich and then stand cutting pickled onions up in slices to mash into the cheese lol


----------



## westie~ma

Westie Mum said:


> OMG - how nice is it ?!?!?!?! It takes me ages to make a cheese sandwhich and then stand cutting pickled onions up in slices to mash into the cheese lol


Beyond gorgeous. 
Have only seen it on sale in food fairs but have now found it in a farm shop down West.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

SusieRainbow said:


> Yes, it's possible to put a 'reply ban ' in place.


Well that sounds like a possible solution - perhaps not just for the posters who get a bit personal/name calling but also for the posters who everyone can see need to step away from the thread for their own sake.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Westie Mum said:


> Ahhhhh - well if thats the case, surely the mods know who are the repeated offenders in the brexit threads, so couldnt a ban be placed on such threads - either with a warning beforehand or not. Rather than you keep posting "please keep it civil" not aimed at any one person and then the select few carry on with their nasty comments ignoring you, because clearly they think it doesnt apply to them ?
> 
> OMG - how nice is it ?!?!?!?! It takes me ages to make a cheese sandwhich and then stand cutting pickled onions up in slices to mash into the cheese lol


It is used sometimes but as I've said before , we don't have time to follow all the threads and it's often difficult to pinpoint who is causing the most offence. 
There are times when it would be easier, not saying right, to put the ban on everyone.
It's also upsetting as mods to deal with the nasty comments when a poster feels singled out. We are human and I've been called horrible names you wouldn't believe for intervening,, even had a thread started about me. 
I know we can't let these occurrences affect our decisions in moderating, but like I said, we are human.


----------



## Westie Mum

westie~ma said:


> Beyond gorgeous.
> Have only seen it on sale in food fairs but have now found it in a farm shop down West.


https://www.snowdoniacheese.co.uk/shop/

Hmmmm might have to place an order ! Cheese and pickled onion sandwiches or pickled onions and a packed of mini cheddars are my treat when OH isnt here, he hates pickled onions


----------



## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> Yes, it's possible to put a 'reply ban ' in place.


That sounds a useful tool .

People are against threads being locked but we are generally given fair warning and then its up to those taking part to moderate themselves if they want the thread to remain .
Im not sure about removing or deleting whole threads , I would rather they remain unless its one of those offensive joke ones , for example.


----------



## Westie Mum

SusieRainbow said:


> It is used sometimes but as I've said before , we don't have time to follow all the threads and it's often difficult to pinpoint who is causing the most offence.
> There are times when it would be easier, not saying right, to put the ban on everyone.
> It's also upsetting as mods to deal with the nasty comments when a poster feels singled out. We are human and I've been called horrible names you wouldn't believe for intervening,, even had a thread started about me.
> I know we can't let these occurrences affect our decisions in moderating, but like I said, we are human.


I dont understand why such behaviour should be allowed towards a mod .... you go places like the hospital or doctors etc and see noticed up saying any bad behaviour will have you removed from the premises ! At least it should be a temporary ban until they calm down and apologise.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Westie Mum said:


> I dont understand why such behaviour should be allowed towards a mod .... you go places like the hospital or doctors etc and see noticed up saying any bad behaviour will have you removed from the premises ! At least it should be a temporary ban until they calm down and apologise.


They do get banned but it still leaves feelings of distress.
Maybe I'm just a snowflake.


----------



## SusieRainbow

https://www.stamfordcheese.com/product/pickle-power-cheese/


----------



## diefenbaker

I started using the ignore list.... it got long... very long. A fair few people I had on it got banned anyway. Then I took a break and came back ( a little ) and decided to start with a clean slate. Nobody has made it on yet. There have been a couple of near misses. But then I've missed a lot of the action. I know why people sometimes don't want to use the ignore list. But... if a tree falls over in the forest.. and there is nobody there to hear it.. does it actually make a sound ?


----------



## Arnie83

diefenbaker said:


> I started using the ignore list.... it got long... very long. A fair few people I had on it got banned anyway. Then I took a break and came back ( a little ) and decided to start with a clean slate. Nobody has made it on yet. There have been a couple of near misses. But then I've missed a lot of the action. I know why people sometimes don't want to use the ignore list. But... *if a tree falls over in the forest.. and there is nobody there to hear it.. does it actually make a sound *?


I think, No.

Although a sound wave is created, it's only a lughole that actually turns it into a sound. (Though 'nobody' would have to be 'nothing', because if an animal hears it, then Yes.)

ompus


----------



## Magyarmum

Talking about crisps

*NewsThump*

*Monday 20 August 2018 by Davywavy*

*Man astonished to discover some crisps in a packet of Walkers*









*A man who opened a standard-sized bag of Walkers was 'astonished' to discover there were actually some ****ing crisps in it for once.*

Simon Williams, 33, had to be given assistance at the scene after opening a pack of the popular snack only to find there were some actual, honest to God crisps in it.

"Initially I thought I must have won some sort of prize, like Charlie Bucket finding a golden ticket, but it turned out that sometimes Walkers to put some crisps in those coloured packets of air," he told us.

Walkers, whose crisps must be made of solid gold potatoes considering what they charge for a bag, responded to the discovery after the crisp was discovered in a packet bought at Kettering services.

"We appreciate that our customers want the best value for money, but potatoes don't grow on trees, you know," a spokesman for the brand told us.

"We believed that crisps averaging 20p each in our average bag was good value for money, but we appreciate that times are hard which is why we've increased the serving size so dramatically.

"And our now big grab-bags will feed a family of four, so long as three of you don't actually eat any.

"Gary Lineker doesn't come cheap either."


----------



## Westie Mum

SusieRainbow said:


> They do get banned but it still leaves feelings of distress.
> Maybe I'm just a snowflake.


Well as you and I have actually met, I don't think you're a snowflake  But completely understand it can't be nice when you are being verbally attacked.



SusieRainbow said:


> https://www.stamfordcheese.com/product/pickle-power-cheese/


*How to Enjoy*
Pickle Power does the work for you really, so this cheese works great on it's own to make a cheese and onion sandwich in thick, crusty farmhouse bread

Arghhhhh I'm so hungry !


----------



## havoc

diefenbaker said:


> I started using the ignore list.... it got long... very long.


I know it's there but I've never had a whole list of people on it. The people I don't like, those I don't agree with, are the ones I learn from. They're the ones I'd never choose as friends in the real world so I wouldn't get to hear those views. As it happens, in the last year+ I've got to find out about some truly despicable types - not on here, in the real world. I am talking about behaviour so vile you cannot, would not, even begin to imagine. At first they caused me and mine some real heartache but in the end we're empowered by knowing their effect is temporary. If the target had hidden from it, ignored it, while knowing it existed they wouldn't have overcome it. There are some really evil and nasty people out there but they aren't on this forum.


----------



## kimthecat

@havoc  Im sorry to hear that and sorry you had to go through it.


----------



## havoc

kimthecat said:


> @havoc  Im sorry to hear that and sorry you had to go through it.


Don't be sorry - the only right emotion is pure fury


----------



## kimthecat

havoc said:


> Don't be sorry - the only right emotion is pure fury


Atta girl !


----------



## westie~ma

Westie Mum said:


> https://www.snowdoniacheese.co.uk/shop/
> 
> Hmmmm might have to place an order ! Cheese and pickled onion sandwiches or pickled onions and a packed of mini cheddars are my treat when OH isnt here, he hates pickled onions


Have you priced an order?
Minimum spend of £21, plus p&p of £5:Wideyed

I paid £3.75 from a little farm shop in West Wales.

If you work out how I can deliver it safely (it is cheese afterall) I'll send you a truckle (or two) plus cost of postage.

Unless they are in a food festival near you


----------



## Westie Mum

westie~ma said:


> Have you priced an order?
> Minimum spend of £21, plus p&p of £5:Wideyed
> 
> I paid £3.75 from a little farm shop in West Wales.
> 
> If you work out how I can deliver it safely (it is cheese afterall) I'll send you a truckle (or two) plus cost of postage.
> 
> Unless they are in a food festival near you


I bookmarked it to show my sister as she loves cheese aswell so was going to see if she wanted any. I presume postage is high as they'll have to send next day delivery to stop it going off maybe.

I'll check at work as we get a quarterly event leaflet showing what's going on locally, so will see if there's any food festivals on, I know we usually have a couple a year as they close all the roads off in town.


----------



## Westie Mum

I couldn't resist the temptation @westie~ma :Shamefullyembarrased So naughty and white bread aswell 
Tonight's dinner .....



















I normally grate the cheese but was too hungry and I did have just salad for lunch :Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## westie~ma

Westie Mum said:


> I couldn't resist the temptation @westie~ma :Shamefullyembarrased So naughty and white bread aswell
> Tonight's dinner .....
> 
> View attachment 365318
> 
> 
> View attachment 365319
> 
> 
> I normally grate the cheese but was too hungry and I did have just salad for lunch :Shamefullyembarrased


Oh my word that does look good  the bread :Bag I love bread :Bag:Bag
I'm hungry now, had a big dinner so tea should be lighter


----------



## Eeyore

SusieRainbow said:


> I absolutely get what you're saying about moderation , and as I've grown in confidence and experience in that role have found it easier to step back. I rarely intervene unless something/someone is reported or come across blatant rudeness bullying, nitpicking or the like. I also try hard to be fair and impartial but am a mere mortal, so sometimes get it wrong.
> I hope you will feel able to join in more threads now yu've broken the ice, and thanks for your very pertinent comments.


Thank you. I was wondering should I join even for this thread. But as it is all about why some might leave PF I thought my thoughts and experiences might be relevant.

I have a question for all mods: if the reporting has increased and yet most members are the same, maybe you have been too conscious about being a mod and responded too quickly, just ensure that no one would feel bad. But then we have learned that if we don´t like something, we just report it and hooray, that post disappears, or even the thread gets closed. in the worst/best case scenario some one might get banned. I know this doesn´t happen a lot, but I suspect sometimes it does happen. And when you tried to be a good mod, l as most contributors lose and eventually PF loses. E.g. finding all the relevant facts or trying to make a post/ thread interesting takes a long time and when it gets closed/ taken away, you feel empty. In the end you just post less and less and when others feel the same way, this becomes one those passive forums that gets replaced by something else. Have we really changed that much? Or shall we blame Brexit for this too? (as you do get all the variation of nastiness from that, caused by politicians, so does it really reflect on us too that much? I hope not.

I wonder also if all "victims" are genuine. Quite often the same people saying how they hate it, if someone has been name calling but the one complaining has been guilty also, but only when it backfires on them they recognize it. This is very typical for most, but again maybe it would be a good idea to go back just a bit more and see if it really is a case of one person being a devil and the other a saint. Usually it takes two to lead a merry dance

Lastly I would like to appeal to fair play. I have seen on this thread very valiant attempts trying to defend the truth, freedom of speech, animal rights, mental health and PF. I respect all who do try still to believe that there is some justice in the world and some goodness in us. Even when that doesn´t always come as smoothly spread as the marmite, shouldn´t we be happy that we have people amongst us who sometimes bring up topics that don´t win them any popularity, but in the end, help a good cause. I´m sure we all have something we feel passionately about, so we can relate to others too and hope that they in turn will listen to us, when we really want to be heard.


----------



## Vanessa131

Westie Mum said:


> I couldn't resist the temptation @westie~ma :Shamefullyembarrased So naughty and white bread aswell
> Tonight's dinner .....
> 
> View attachment 365318
> 
> 
> View attachment 365319
> 
> 
> I normally grate the cheese but was too hungry and I did have just salad for lunch :Shamefullyembarrased


I once ate a jar of pickled onions in one sitting, the after effects weren't pleasant!


----------



## Westie Mum

westie~ma said:


> Oh my word that does look good  the bread :Bag I love bread :Bag:Bag
> I'm hungry now, had a big dinner so tea should be lighter


I love bread too, although I know we aren't supposed to anymore (why is everything so good that's bad for us!) but picked up a bloomer at the bakers this afternoon cause OH is away and I don't cook when he's not here so that's 2 nights dinner, then salad for the other 2 :Hilarious


----------



## Westie Mum

Eeyore said:


> I have a question for all mods: if the reporting has increased and yet most members are the same, maybe you have been too conscious about being a mod and responded too quickly, just ensure that no one would feel bad. But then we have learned that if we don´t like something, we just report it and hooray, that post disappears, or even the thread gets closed.


Did you see the thread and the comments many of us are referring to ? Or is this more of a 'in general' ?



Vanessa131 said:


> I once ate a jar of pickled onions in one sitting, the after effects weren't pleasant!


Oh my .... I wouldn't eat a whole jar :Jawdrop but yeah hence why I only eat them when I'm alone :Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

Well, we’ve had fish and chips and it was delicious, so you can keep your pickled onions along with the marmite (and you can chuck mustard in there as well):Hilarious


----------



## Eeyore

Westie Mum said:


> Did you see the thread and the comments many of us are referring to ? Or is this more of a 'in general' ?


 Yes, and most other political threads. Not all, naturally, but enough to notice the same patterns happening over and over again, so this is a more general observation about the way people behave in political threads. I wonder what real behavioural analysts would make of us all?


----------



## Westie Mum

Eeyore said:


> Yes, and most other political threads. Not all, naturally, but enough to notice the same patterns happening over and over again, so this is a more general observation about the way people behave in political threads. I wonder what real behavioural analysts would make of us all?


I dread to think :Jawdrop


----------



## Lurcherlad

Siskin said:


> Well, we've had fish and chips and it was delicious, so you can keep your pickled onions along with the marmite (and you can chuck mustard in there as well):Hilarious


Pickled onions WITH fish and chips! Nom nom


----------



## Siskin

Lurcherlad said:


> Pickled onions WITH fish and chips! Nom nom


Oh nooooooo


----------



## Westie Mum

Lurcherlad said:


> Pickled onions WITH fish and chips! Nom nom


*drools*

Right that's it, I'm logging off, or I'll need to eat again 

Please never let us have a food thread :Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## SusieRainbow

Eeyore said:


> Thank you. I was wondering should I join even for this thread. But as it is all about why some might leave PF I thought my thoughts and experiences might be relevant.
> 
> I have a question for all mods: if the reporting has increased and yet most members are the same, maybe you have been too conscious about being a mod and responded too quickly, just ensure that no one would feel bad. But then we have learned that if we don´t like something, we just report it and hooray, that post disappears, or even the thread gets closed. in the worst/best case scenario some one might get banned. I know this doesn´t happen a lot, but I suspect sometimes it does happen. And when you tried to be a good mod, l as most contributors lose and eventually PF loses. E.g. finding all the relevant facts or trying to make a post/ thread interesting takes a long time and when it gets closed/ taken away, you feel empty. In the end you just post less and less and when others feel the same way, this becomes one those passive forums that gets replaced by something else. Have we really changed that much? Or shall we blame Brexit for this too? (as you do get all the variation of nastiness from that, caused by politicians, so does it really reflect on us too that much? I hope not.
> 
> I wonder also if all "victims" are genuine. Quite often the same people saying how they hate it, if someone has been name calling but the one complaining has been guilty also, but only when it backfires on them they recognize it. This is very typical for most, but again maybe it would be a good idea to go back just a bit more and see if it really is a case of one person being a devil and the other a saint. Usually it takes two to lead a merry dance
> 
> Lastly I would like to appeal to fair play. I have seen on this thread very valiant attempts trying to defend the truth, freedom of speech, animal rights, mental health and PF. I respect all who do try still to believe that there is some justice in the world and some goodness in us. Even when that doesn´t always come as smoothly spread as the marmite, shouldn´t we be happy that we have people amongst us who sometimes bring up topics that don´t win them any popularity, but in the end, help a good cause. I´m sure we all have something we feel passionately about, so we can relate to others too and hope that they in turn will listen to us, when we really want to be heard.


Some very good points made.
Regarding moderation , it does appear that no matter how hard one tries it's impossible to please everyone so it's necessary to form an objective opinion and act accordingly.
'Victims' As with any group there are individuals who seem to thrive on drama and can't take criticism , but surely political discussions shouldn't involve personal remarks and ridicule - they just weaken the argument. 
Fair Play - we all want it but it can be difficult at times to decide who is in the right and who isn't without ploughing through reams of text.


----------



## Northpup

Siskin said:


> Well, we've had fish and chips and it was delicious, so you can keep your pickled onions along with the marmite (and you can chuck mustard in there as well):Hilarious


Same same fish and chips for us and sausage for the poorly boy :Shamefullyembarrased keep your healthy salads and marmite


----------



## stuaz

SusieRainbow said:


> Some very good points made.
> Regarding moderation , it does appear that no matter how hard one tries it's impossible to please everyone so it's necessary to form an objective opinion and act accordingly.
> 'Victims' As with any group there are individuals who seem to thrive on drama and can't take criticism , but surely political discussions shouldn't involve personal remarks and ridicule - they just weaken the argument.
> Fair Play - we all want it but it can be difficult at times to decide who is in the right and who isn't without ploughing through reams of text.


I was always told that the minute someone resorts to personal insults, then they immediately lose the arguement/debate and there claims (which may be valid) loose all credibility.

Be civil and act like adults and leave the name calling and petty insults in the playground.

It's not difficult.


----------



## Rafa

SusieRainbow said:


> there are individuals who seem to thrive on drama


This.

Having read most of the political threads over time, it seems obvious to me that there are some who revel in drama and controversy and who appear to love an argument.

I don't believe any amount of moderating will sort them out. They thrive on it.

It is noticeable that a fair few of those who will leap into a 'political scrap' with relish, never post in other sections of the forum - never offer help or advice.


----------



## Kittynanna

westie~ma said:


> Just going to leave this here ... it's my newest find
> 
> View attachment 365247


Not sure if they still sell it but Morrisons used to sell Snowdonia cheeses, I used to get the black coated one (Black Bomber) for my Uncle ....he loved it.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

SusieRainbow said:


> https://www.stamfordcheese.com/product/pickle-power-cheese/


Crikey, last time I looked that was a gift shop!

I'll be having a nosy down there next time I'm home!


----------



## JANICE199

Rafa said:


> This.
> 
> Having read most of the political threads over time, it seems obvious to me that there are some who revel in drama and controversy and who appear to love an argument.
> 
> I don't believe any amount of moderating will sort them out. They thrive on it.
> 
> It is noticeable that a fair few of those who will leap into a 'political scrap' with relish, never post in other sections of the forum - never offer help or advice.


*This made me chuckle. At one time i would have been one of this people you are talking about. Although i didn't do it for the drama and controversy, i did it because i found those threads interesting. ( and still do). *
*When i first joined this forum i did so when i was either about to buy my 2 poodles, or had just got them. I learnt a lot even though at first i didn't agree with what was being said. A couple of the people i actually clashed with back then, are people i now have the greatest of respect for. I for one, have an open mind, although if i'm told i'm wrong, i need it to be proven to me. This can probably come across as me looking for an argument, but i'm not. We live and we learn. *


----------



## Goblin

JANICE199 said:


> *I for one, have an open mind, although if i'm told i'm wrong, i need it to be proven to me. This can probably come across as me looking for an argument, but i'm not. We live and we learn. *


That's the problem with brexit threads at a guess.. only one side supplies evidence or anything to back their position, the other has only soundbites which are proven false again and again but still get repeated. One side ultimately must know their position is unsustainable and get insulted, the other gets frustrated.


----------



## JANICE199

Goblin said:


> That's the problem with brexit threads at a guess.. only one side has supplies evidence or anything to back their position, the other has only soundbites which are proven false again and again but still get repeated. One side ultimately must know their position is unsustainable and get insulted, the other gets frustrated.


*As far as brexit threads go, i won't get into an argument/ debate about it, because i can't see anyone being right or wrong. Time alone will give us the answer. *


----------



## kimthecat

JANICE199 said:


> *As far as brexit threads go, i won't get into an argument/ debate about it, because i can't see anyone being right or wrong. Time alone will give us the answer. *


Absolutely. Uncertainty is causing problems and left us adrift , not having a plan etc . Two years of discussions going nowhere , saying the same things . Times too precious to waste . Our arguments change nothing .


----------



## Westie Mum

JANICE199 said:


> *As far as brexit threads go, i won't get into an argument/ debate about it, because i can't see anyone being right or wrong. Time alone will give us the answer. *


Too true! Most is speculation and people are arguing over things posted on the internet that may never come to fruition. Personally i like cold hard facts, I then like to mentally digest them and come to my own conclusion.


----------



## Westie Mum

Rafa said:


> It is noticeable that a fair few of those who will leap into a 'political scrap' with relish, never post in other sections of the forum - never offer help or advice.


Which does make you wonder why they are on PetForums and not just a political based forum 



Kittynanna said:


> Not sure if they still sell it but Morrisons used to sell Snowdonia cheeses, I used to get the black coated one (Black Bomber) for my Uncle ....he loved it.


Ohhhhhhhhhhh will check Morrisons !


----------



## SusieRainbow

I think this is why I couldn't follow the Brexit threads ( oooh , I said the word!)
So much of it was speculation and seemed to me like scaremongering. Like WM I like facts .


----------



## SusieRainbow

Westie Mum said:


> Which does make you wonder why they are on PetForums and not just a political based forum
> 
> Ohhhhhhhhhhh will check Morrisons !


Did you look at the link I put up for th shop in Stamford ?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Rafa said:


> This.
> 
> Having read most of the political threads over time, it seems obvious to me that there are some who revel in drama and controversy and who appear to love an argument.
> 
> I don't believe any amount of moderating will sort them out. They thrive on it.
> 
> *It is noticeable that a fair few of those who will leap into a 'political scrap' with relish, never post in other sections of the forum - never offer help or advice.*



This is exactly why I'm opposed to political threads.


----------



## Westie Mum

SusieRainbow said:


> Did you look at the link I put up for th shop in Stamford ?


Yes i did - doesnt seem to have a minimum spend but postage still £5 something, not that its a huge issue as will split postage with my sister once she lets me know what she wants - she is a huge foodie so im sure she will want some aswell!


----------



## SusieRainbow

Westie Mum said:


> Yes i did - doesnt seem to have a minimum spend but postage still £5 something, not that its a huge issue as will split postage with my sister once she lets me know what she wants - she is a huge foodie so im sure she will want some aswell!


Yes, I didn't think £5 was out of the way for courier delivery if you order a few things. There's some very tempting goodies in that shop !


----------



## noushka05

If people would only look objectively, there is actually overwhelming evidence which shows brexit will be disastrous. Its not scaremongering when its the reality of leaving the customs union and single market. I can post you lots of solid references if you like? (maybe it would be better on a brexit thread though The irony) Brexit will finish off our NHS. It will have disastrous implications for our environment, food safety, workers rights etc. All this talk by the key brexiteers of ripping up EU red tape and doing away with regulations was always to give free reign to corporate power to exploit us and our environment. Half the M20 will have to be sealed off with one side used as a giant lorry park as there will be no free movement of goods should we crash out. How will the haulage industry operate for example? We know tens of thousands of jobs will go. Then theres the very real risk to the Good Friday Agreement - plus so much more.

Nuff said!:Bag


----------



## Arnie83

kimthecat said:


> Absolutely. Uncertainty is causing problems and left us adrift , not having a plan etc . Two years of discussions going nowhere , saying the same things . Times too precious to waste . *Our arguments change nothing *.


Like @Westie Mum , and I'm sure you and many others, I like facts. I really don't like unsubstantiated comments. But were it not for the fact that Brexit is so important I would let them go and rarely contribute to a thread on that topic.

There is a chance, though, that in the next few months or so we will all be asked for our opinion on the way forwards, because the MPs are having a lot of trouble agreeing.

If that is the case, I think it is important that as many people as possible are aware of the facts, such as we know them, because that actually might change something. Maybe a PF member will learn something and tell their friends in real life, and maybe they will cast a vote based on a fact they would otherwise not have known.

That's why I think Brexit threads, even with all their emotion, are actually quite important, even on a forum where the main interest is in pets.

The mods have a rotten job controlling them, but PF voters have just as much say as those who contribute to solely political websites, and it is therefore just as important that they know fact from fiction, and speculative prediction from outright porkies.

Sorry if all that sounded a bit serious!


----------



## JANICE199

noushka05 said:


> If people would only look objectively, there is actually overwhelming evidence which shows brexit will be disastrous. Its not scaremongering when its the reality of leaving the customs union and single market. I can post you lots of solid references if you like? (maybe it would be better on a brexit thread though The irony) Brexit will finish off our NHS. It will have disastrous implications for our environment, food safety, workers rights etc. All this talk by the key brexiteers of ripping up EU red tape and doing away with regulations was always to give free reign to corporate power to exploit us and our environment. Half the M20 will have to be sealed off with one side used as a giant lorry park as there will be no free movement of goods should we crash out. How will the haulage industry operate for example? We know tens of thousands of jobs will go. Then theres the very real risk to the Good Friday Agreement - plus so much more.


*Haha i had to reply  As i see it, the worst will be we go back to square one, sure times will/might get tough but we have been there many times before and come through the other side. At least if we come out of the EU will will be fighting for our own rights and rules ( which i want ). You and i have said many times before Noushka, that this country has never been so bad, and i sure as hell do not think it will ever get any better under a tory government. I'm all for people taking strike action, and if needs be, i would see this country at a standstill if needs be.*
*We need to start making our government ( whoever it is) listen to the people. Then we will see change,but it won't happen over night. Off to get my tin hat, if i can find it.*


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Good morning campers. Can we take the actual Brexit argument into a Brexit thread please, sorry to be precious but we all know how those threads end and I would hate to see this one go the same way as it is supposed to be addressing the issues that cause threads to be closed and members to either be banned or leave.


----------



## kimthecat

Arnie83 said:


> Like @Westie Mum , and I'm sure you and many others, I like facts. I really don't like unsubstantiated comments. But were it not for the fact that Brexit is so important I would let them go and rarely contribute to a thread on that topic.


You highlighted my comment *Our arguments change nothing *. 
Ok you dont like unsubstantiated facts so let me change that to my opinion is that these threads about Brexit on PF do little to change peoples minds . Can you tell me of anyone who has changed their opinion ? It's difficult to say as many have left PF and people said they don't bother to read the threads or partake in them .



> I think it is important that as many people as possible are aware of the facts, such as we know them, because that actually might change something. Maybe a PF member will learn something and tell their friends in real life, and maybe they will cast a vote based on a fact they would otherwise not have known.


or maybe they wont . I'm sure its important for people to be aware of the facts but again its down to opinions .

I dont want politics to be to be banned but it is up to the Mods.


----------



## Zaros

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Good morning campers. Can we take the actual Brexit argument into a Brexit thread please, sorry to be precious but we all know how those threads end and I would hate to see this one go the same way as it is supposed to be addressing the issues that cause threads to be closed and members to either be banned or leave.


...................................


----------



## Arnie83

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Good morning campers. Can we take the actual Brexit argument into a Brexit thread please, sorry to be precious but we all know how those threads end and I would hate to see this one go the same way as it is supposed to be addressing the issues that cause threads to be closed and members to either be banned or leave.


I'm sure we could and should, but there isn't one and I don't know if we're allowed to start one. That's why I kept my comment general.


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Good morning campers. Can we take the actual Brexit argument into a Brexit thread please, sorry to be precious but we all know how those threads end and I would hate to see this one go the same way as it is supposed to be addressing the issues that cause threads to be closed and members to either be banned or leave.


Agree, we don't want this closed .


----------



## Arnie83

kimthecat said:


> You highlighted my comment *Our arguments change nothing *.
> Ok you dont like unsubstantiated facts so let me change that to my opinion is that these threads about Brexit on PF do little to change peoples minds . Can you tell me of anyone who has changed their opinion ? It's difficult to say as many have left PF and people said they don't bother to read the threads or partake in them .
> 
> or maybe they wont . I'm sure its important for people to be aware of the facts but again its down to opinions .
> 
> I dont want politics to be to be banned but it is up to the Mods.


I would agree that very few people, if any, will change their minds. No, I can't tell you of anyone who has. Yes, maybe they won't learn anything or tell anyone. And yes it's down to opinions.

I just like opinions to be based on facts, or at least formed with knowledge of facts, so will supply them where I can.


----------



## SusieRainbow

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Good morning campers. Can we take the actual Brexit argument into a Brexit thread please, sorry to be precious but we all know how those threads end and I would hate to see this one go the same way as it is supposed to be addressing the issues that cause threads to be closed and members to either be banned or leave.


You took the words right out of my mouth !
I'm impressed though, that we've got to 30 pages with no arguing, flouncing or dummy spitting .


----------



## O2.0

Facts are great, agreed. But what people forget is that two equally intelligent, open-minded, and well researched human beings can look a the same facts and come to different conclusions. And here's the thing - neither of them is wrong. Neither of them may be right either. Not everything in this world boils down to "right and wrong" - that's actually a pretty immature way of seeing the world if you ask me. 

Why can't people just accept that not everyone sees the world the same way. Just because my opinion on things differs from yours doesn't mean I'm wrong, doesn't mean I don't understand the facts, doesn't mean I don't care about X, Y, Z... It just means I saw the same thing you saw and came to a different conclusion. That's how the world works and we could all go a long way towards trying to comprehend that people are indeed different and think differently, and that's OKAY!!

I think what we can all agree on is that name calling, snide comments, going around the forum making little digs in unrelated areas, and general mean-spirited behavior is NOT okay nor productive to a good forum vibe


----------



## SusieRainbow

O2.0 said:


> Facts are great, agreed. But what people forget is that two equally intelligent, open-minded, and well researched human beings can look a the same facts and come to different conclusions. And here's the thing - neither of them is wrong. Neither of them may be right either. Not everything in this world boils down to "right and wrong" - that's actually a pretty immature way of seeing the world if you ask me.
> 
> Why can't people just accept that not everyone sees the world the same way. Just because my opinion on things differs from yours doesn't mean I'm wrong, doesn't mean I don't understand the facts, doesn't mean I don't care about X, Y, Z... It just means I saw the same thing you saw and came to a different conclusion. That's how the world works and we could all go a long way towards trying to comprehend that people are indeed different and think differently, and that's OKAY!!
> 
> I think what we can all agree on is that name calling, snide comments, going around the forum making little digs in unrelated areas, and general mean-spirited behavior is NOT okay nor productive to a good forum vibe


Excellent post, just about sums the whole thread up really.


----------



## kimthecat

Arnie83 said:


> I would agree that very few people, if any, will change their minds. No, I can't tell you of anyone who has. Yes, maybe they won't learn anything or tell anyone. And yes it's down to opinions.
> 
> I just like opinions to be based on facts, or at least formed with knowledge of facts, so will supply them where I can.


It was just a general off the cuff statement in a non brexit thread . you don't really know if my statement was unsubstantiated yet felt free to comment. This sort of nit picking is why people don't bother with brexit threads and that's a fact ,

Im really done with all this . I hope you get the level of discussion you desire , if not here then else where.


----------



## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> You took the words right out of my mouth !
> I'm impressed though, that we've got to 30 pages with no arguing, flouncing or dummy spitting .


Dont speak too soon !


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Arnie83 said:


> I'm sure we could and should, but there isn't one and I don't know if we're allowed to start one. That's why I kept my comment general.


Please do start one then, I really don't mind this thread discussing why people fall out on Brexit/political threads and whether they should be allowed to continue or why they get closed but it is not the place to argue the rights or wrongs of Brexit  Now if you want to talk Marmite I'm in


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> Dont speak to soon !


Quite ! I was just about to post a warning as it seems the pond has ripples appearing. 
I will anyway - *No More Brexit on this thread please.*


----------



## SusieRainbow

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Please do start one then, I really don't mind this thread discussing why people fall out on Brexit/political threads and whether they should be allowed to continue or why they get closed but it is not the place to argue the rights or wrongs of Brexit  Now if you want to talk Marmite I'm in


Me too. Or cheese. Or pygmy goats.


----------



## diefenbaker

Branston Pickle Mini Cheddars ( drops mic )


----------



## JANICE199

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Good morning campers. Can we take the actual Brexit argument into a Brexit thread please, sorry to be precious but we all know how those threads end and I would hate to see this one go the same way as it is supposed to be addressing the issues that cause threads to be closed and members to either be banned or leave.


*Done.. *


----------



## Elles

Delete them. This thread is about how we can get on and marmite. If you posted off-topic maybe you should apologise and delete your post?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

JANICE199 said:


> *Done.. *


Thank you Janice now go and get your tin hat on 



Elles said:


> Delete them. This thread is about how we can get on and marmite. If you posted off-topic maybe you should apologise and delete your post?


I think the posts should stay as they are a fine example of how we can behave like adults when we try to. No harm was done and a new thread started, lets hope the contributors don't let it descend into more name calling.


----------



## Arnie83

kimthecat said:


> It was just a general off the cuff statement in a non brexit thread . you don't really know if my statement was unsubstantiated yet felt free to comment. This sort of nit picking is why people don't bother with brexit threads and that's a fact ,
> 
> Im really done with all this . I hope you get the level of discussion you desire , if not here then else where.


I really don't want to come across as anything other than sweetness and light in the Marmite thread, but all I did was agree with you. If you saw it as nit-picking, then I apologise, but I really didn't disagree, let alone criticise anything you wrote. And that's a fact! 

I clearly haven't got the hang of it though, so I think I'd better leave now.


----------



## stockwellcat.

JANICE199 said:


> *As far as brexit threads go, i won't get into an argument/ debate about it, because i can't see anyone being right or wrong.*


Why open another thread on the topic?

If you want my honest opinion I am sick of hearing and reading about it now.

Sorry as stated in that thread I am not
interested you won't read another thing from me on the subject.


----------



## kimthecat

JANICE199 said:


> *Done.. *


NOOOOOOOO!!!! :Hilarious


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

stockwellcat. said:


> Why open another thread on the topic?
> 
> If you want my honest opinion I am sick of hearing and reading about it now.
> 
> Sorry as stated in that thread I am not
> interested you won't read another thing from me on the subject.


SWC I'm going to hold you to that and chase you out with my broom if I see you getting drawn in again


----------



## stockwellcat.

rottiepointerhouse said:


> SWC I'm going to hold you to that and chase you out with my broom if I see you getting drawn in again


Oh but you won't need to chase me with a broom as I am not getting drawn into that topic again. I'd rather talk about marmite, twiglets, cheese and pickled onions


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

stockwellcat. said:


> Oh but you won't need to chase me with a broom as I am not getting drawn into that topic again. I'd rather talk about marmite, cheese and pickled onions


Well I will happily discuss marmite and pickled onions with you but not the cheese. I may well have marmite soldiers with my breakfast in a minute.


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> SWC I'm going to hold you to that and chase you out with my broom if I see you getting drawn in again


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


>


You calling me a witch KC?


----------



## simplysardonic

stockwellcat. said:


> Oh but you won't need to chase me with a broom as I am not getting drawn into that topic again. I'd rather talk about marmite, twiglets, cheese and pickled onions


Apart from cheese, all those are gross.

End of discussion


----------



## SusieRainbow

simplysardonic said:


> Apart from cheese, all those are gross.
> 
> End of discussion


You're nothing but a troll, posting such contentious comments and running off !


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

simplysardonic said:


> Apart from cheese, all those are gross.
> 
> End of discussion


No congealed bovine lactating fluid with bacteria in it (some of which smells like feet and some of which smells like vomit) now that is gross :Jawdrop Runs for cover and gets tin hat on :Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## simplysardonic

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No congealed bovine lactating fluid with bacteria in it (some of which smells like feet and some of which smells like vomit) now that is gross :Jawdrop Runs for cover and gets tin hat on :Hilarious:Hilarious


I'm fine with bacteria TBH, it's the pus that's really gross:Wtf

Joking aside cheese (for me) is the hardest thing to give up.

Marmite I use to add flavour to gravies in place of meat, but I can't understand how anyone can eat it in a sandwich!


----------



## kimthecat

Arnie83 said:


> I really don't want to come across as anything other than sweetness and light in the Marmite thread, but all I did was agree with you. If you saw it as nit-picking, then I apologise, but I really didn't disagree, let alone criticise anything you wrote. And that's a fact!
> 
> I clearly haven't got the hang of it though, so I think I'd better leave now.


Ok Sorry , don't leave this thread on my account. A new brexit thread is open now so hope that stays open.


----------



## PawsOnMe

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No congealed bovine lactating fluid with bacteria in it (some of which smells like feet and some of which smells like vomit) now that is gross :Jawdrop Runs for cover and gets tin hat on :Hilarious:Hilarious


:Wideyed:Wideyed:Wideyed:Hungover
That description actually made me gag...:Yuck
I need help with a cheese alternative that actually melts and tastes like chedder..I miss my jam and cheese butties :Hungry


----------



## O2.0

Okay, back to serious (sorry! )
There is a really good example thread in forum help and suggestions right now. 

One member is chiding another for sarcasm. I personally didn't see any sarcasm, but I admit that again - two people looking at the same thing and coming to different conclusions, there might have been.
But...
The member chiding for sarcasm uses an eyeroll emoji. Which is not exactly neutral either. 
So... who's in the wrong here? Who "started" it? How do you address it? 

And then after it's dealt with (or not dealt with as it's really a total non-issue IMHO), what if one of those posters (and neither of them would do this, so please don't think I'm accusing either of them of anything) starts making snide comments in other threads? Makes changes to their avatar or puts a banner under their name that are clearly directed at forum decisions? Goes in to games and makes "jokes" about people getting banned or not being able to take a joke? 
Again, neither of the members in the above example do this, but there are a handful of members who do, and it really messes with the vibe of the forum and it starts feeling like an unfriendly, unpleasant place. 

BTW, yes, in essence, that is why I left. I felt like every time I rounded a corner, there was another comment. Subtle, probably not noticeable to most, but I knew, and that was the point. And I know someone is probably reading this getting satisfaction out of knowing they got under my skin, but there are also people reading who know exactly what I'm talking about because they too experienced the exact same thing - and to them I would say, no you're not crazy, you're not being oversensitive, it is real, and you do have a right to be upset by it. 

Anyway, wanted to throw that out there, because to me that's what's really going on here. And Mods, I think you guys know that is what the issue is, you just don't know how to address it - I don't either. Because the behavior is very deniable. "I was just joking." "That wasn't directed at you, not everything is about you, you know." It's easy to deny so it's very hard to address. 
I don't know what the solution is, but I felt it was time to get that elephant out in the open.


----------



## Magyarmum

PawsOnMe said:


> :Wideyed:Wideyed:Wideyed:Hungover
> That description actually made me gag...:Yuck
> I need help with a cheese alternative that actually melts and tastes like chedder..I miss my jam and cheese butties :Hungry[/QUOTE
> 
> Violife Free From Alternative is very good and actually tastes like cheddar!]
> 
> https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/285363592


----------



## PawsOnMe

Thank you!! That looks great, will have to pick some up on my next tesco trip


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

simplysardonic said:


> I'm fine with bacteria TBH, it's the pus that's really gross:Wtf
> 
> Joking aside cheese (for me) is the hardest thing to give up.
> 
> Marmite I use to add flavour to gravies in place of meat, but I can't understand how anyone can eat it in a sandwich!


Most of the plant based doctors say that cheese is the main stumbling block for so many of their patients, they can cope with no meat/fish, even no milk but not no cheese. There are lots of possible explanations including the fat/salt content which not only has a nice mouth feel (until you kick the habit when it becomes revolting) but is highly addictive. Also the casomorphins casein-derived morphine-like compounds) present in milk attach to the same receptors in the brain as heroin and other narcotics - they are there to keep a calf coming back for more and because cheese is a concentrated form of milk you get a much bigger hit of casomorphins making it one of those foods you just have to keep going back for more of 

About pus for anyone interested :Vomit

https://dairy.ahdb.org.uk/technical...ll-count-milk-quality-indicator/#.W3wNTOhKiUl



PawsOnMe said:


> :Wideyed:Wideyed:Wideyed:Hungover
> That description actually made me gag...:Yuck
> I need help with a cheese alternative that actually melts and tastes like chedder..I miss my jam and cheese butties :Hungry


Sorry. It was something I hadn't thought about before. Now it seems obvious that different cultures of bacteria produce different flavours and bubbles which make holes in some cheeses.

From The Cheese Trap by Dr Neal Barnard

Brevibacteria which is found on our skin and in our socks (cheesy feet smell) is used in Muenster, Limburger and several other cheeses which makes some cheeses smell like unwashed feet. Staphylococcus Epidermis is one of the bacteria responsible for human BO giving a characteristic odour to the armpits and to some cheeses. One of the compounds produced during cheese making - butyric acid is also produced where your stomach acid digests food which is why to many people Parmesan has the faint odour of vomit. As the cheese making process proceeds milk fats and proteins break down into a wide variety of chemical products one of which is Skatole. If you notice a slight off odour that is because Skatole is also responsible in part for the odour of human faeces (produced from tryptophan in the human intestine)

I don't eat vegan cheeses I'm afraid so I'm not much help with an alternative.


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> You calling me a witch KC?


 If the hat fits .........


----------



## Bisbow

Seeing as the B word is not on here any more I just want to say

I can't stand marmalade, marmite or Bovril, but cheese I love, with tomatoes, pickle and in quiches

I must be a member of the odd taste club


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

O2.0 said:


> Okay, back to serious (sorry! )
> There is a really good example thread in forum help and suggestions right now.
> 
> One member is chiding another for sarcasm. I personally didn't see any sarcasm, but I admit that again - two people looking at the same thing and coming to different conclusions, there might have been.
> But...
> The member chiding for sarcasm uses an eyeroll emoji. Which is not exactly neutral either.
> So... who's in the wrong here? Who "started" it? How do you address it?
> 
> And then after it's dealt with (or not dealt with as it's really a total non-issue IMHO), what if one of those posters (and neither of them would do this, so please don't think I'm accusing either of them of anything) starts making snide comments in other threads? Makes changes to their avatar or puts a banner under their name that are clearly directed at forum decisions? Goes in to games and makes "jokes" about people getting banned or not being able to take a joke?
> Again, neither of the members in the above example do this, but there are a handful of members who do, and it really messes with the vibe of the forum and it starts feeling like an unfriendly, unpleasant place.
> 
> BTW, yes, in essence, that is why I left. I felt like every time I rounded a corner, there was another comment. Subtle, probably not noticeable to most, but I knew, and that was the point. And I know someone is probably reading this getting satisfaction out of knowing they got under my skin, but there are also people reading who know exactly what I'm talking about because they too experienced the exact same thing - and to them I would say, no you're not crazy, you're not being oversensitive, it is real, and you do have a right to be upset by it.
> 
> Anyway, wanted to throw that out there, because to me that's what's really going on here. And Mods, I think you guys know that is what the issue is, you just don't know how to address it - I don't either. Because the behavior is very deniable. "I was just joking." "That wasn't directed at you, not everything is about you, you know." It's easy to deny so it's very hard to address.
> I don't know what the solution is, but I felt it was time to get that elephant out in the open.


Thank you for bringing this issue out in to the open. I think we do all need to be careful not to indulge in these practices though otherwise the forum will descend into tit for tat and retaliation which I have seen happen precisely regarding the issue you have raised. Some direct challenges and some snide comments. I hoped this thread could bring it out into the open. I guess its only human nature that when one set of members feel their "friend" has been wronged they all want to pile in and retaliate against the person they feel was responsible but that was largely what I meant about undercurrents and festering sores that make the forum a bit uncomfortable for other uses who are not in either camp. Can we try and come to an agreement between the mods and forum members about how we should proceed in this sort of circumstance. I personally do not want to see pm campaigns going on against a member nor people who were not involved in the original problem getting involved and making digs so how do we move forward? Mods can you please comment.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> If the hat fits .........


Oh yes that looks right up my alley, I will wear it with pride


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> BTW, yes, in essence, that is why I left. I felt like every time I rounded a corner, there was another comment. Subtle, probably not noticeable to most, but I knew, and that was the point. And I know someone is probably reading this getting satisfaction out of knowing they got under my skin, but there are also people reading who know exactly what I'm talking about because they too experienced the exact same thing - and to them I would say, no you're not crazy, you're not being oversensitive, it is real, and you do have a right to be upset by it.
> 
> Anyway, wanted to throw that out there, because to me that's what's really going on here. And Mods, I think you guys know that is what the issue is, you just don't know how to address it - I don't either. Because the behavior is very deniable. "I was just joking." "That wasn't directed at you, not everything is about you, you know." It's easy to deny so it's very hard to address.
> I don't know what the solution is, but I felt it was time to get that elephant out in the open.


Yes, seen this happen, the forum tactics are so obvious and blatant and quite frankly, I think it's cocking a snook at the Mods which makes their job so much more difficult than it should be.


----------



## O2.0

kimthecat said:


> cocking a snook


I have never heard that expression and I'm not quite sure what it means, but I think I like it LOL


----------



## kimthecat

@02.0
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/cock-a-snook.html
Its a very old expression but nowadays it means this .


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> Yes, seen this happen, the forum tactics are so obvious and blatant and quite frankly, I think it's cocking a snook at the Mods which makes their job so much more difficult than it should be.


Yes I've seen it happen too but I seriously wonder if people are actually aware that they are doing it.


----------



## Nettles

O2.0 said:


> And then after it's dealt with (or not dealt with as it's really a total non-issue IMHO), what if one of those posters (and neither of them would do this, so please don't think I'm accusing either of them of anything) starts making snide comments in other threads? Makes changes to their avatar or puts a banner under their name that are clearly directed at forum decisions? Goes in to games and makes "jokes" about people getting banned or not being able to take a joke?
> Again, neither of the members in the above example do this, but there are a handful of members who do, and it really messes with the vibe of the forum and it starts feeling like an unfriendly, unpleasant place.
> 
> BTW, yes, in essence, that is why I left. I felt like every time I rounded a corner, there was another comment. Subtle, probably not noticeable to most, but I knew, and that was the point. And I know someone is probably reading this getting satisfaction out of knowing they got under my skin, but there are also people reading who know exactly what I'm talking about because they too experienced the exact same thing - and to them I would say, no you're not crazy, you're not being oversensitive, it is real, and you do have a right to be upset by it.
> 
> Anyway, wanted to throw that out there, because to me that's what's really going on here. And Mods, I think you guys know that is what the issue is, you just don't know how to address it - I don't either. Because the behavior is very deniable. "I was just joking." "That wasn't directed at you, not everything is about you, you know." It's easy to deny so it's very hard to address.
> I don't know what the solution is, but I felt it was time to get that elephant out in the open.


This ^ Exactly this.

I haven't commented on the thread until now because I didn't know how to word it without sounding like I was talking in riddles, but the points you have made above are exactly why I (and a few others that I know of!!) no longer post on the forum very much.

Snide remarks and cryptic nonsense disguised as "jokes" which are easily dismissed as "that's not who/what I was talking about" have caused the majority of the issues on this forum IMO. They look fairly innocent to most people, but they're disgustingly cruel and underhanded. And the people responsible get away with it time and time again.

And for that reason, this is no longer a forum I really want to take part in very much.


----------



## Elles

Was just trying to word a similar thing, when rph posted about how nice and adult people were being. They might not be being. People will go all around the houses to not say something direct, but the intent and sentiment is there. We know it and they know it, but not everyone can see it.


----------



## O2.0

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I've seen it happen too but I seriously wonder if people are actually aware that they are doing it.


Yes they are aware.



Nettles said:


> This ^ Exactly this.
> 
> I haven't commented on the thread until now because I didn't know how to word it without sounding like I was talking in riddles, but the points you have made above are exactly why I (and a few others that I know of!!) no longer post on the forum very much.
> 
> Snide remarks and cryptic nonsense disguised as "jokes" which are easily dismissed as "that's not who/what I was talking about" have caused the majority of the issues on this forum IMO. They look fairly innocent to most people, but they're disgustingly cruel and underhanded. And the people responsible get away with it time and time again.
> 
> And for that reason, this is no longer a forum I really want to take part in very much.


I can't like your post because I don't like that you don't want to take part in the forum, but thank you for your post


----------



## Westie Mum

O2.0 said:


> Okay, back to serious (sorry! )
> There is a really good example thread in forum help and suggestions right now.
> 
> One member is chiding another for sarcasm. I personally didn't see any sarcasm, but I admit that again - two people looking at the same thing and coming to different conclusions, there might have been.
> But...
> The member chiding for sarcasm uses an eyeroll emoji. Which is not exactly neutral either.
> So... who's in the wrong here? Who "started" it? How do you address it?
> 
> And then after it's dealt with (or not dealt with as it's really a total non-issue IMHO), what if one of those posters (and neither of them would do this, so please don't think I'm accusing either of them of anything) starts making snide comments in other threads? Makes changes to their avatar or puts a banner under their name that are clearly directed at forum decisions? Goes in to games and makes "jokes" about people getting banned or not being able to take a joke?
> Again, neither of the members in the above example do this, but there are a handful of members who do, and it really messes with the vibe of the forum and it starts feeling like an unfriendly, unpleasant place.
> 
> BTW, yes, in essence, that is why I left. I felt like every time I rounded a corner, there was another comment. Subtle, probably not noticeable to most, but I knew, and that was the point. And I know someone is probably reading this getting satisfaction out of knowing they got under my skin, but there are also people reading who know exactly what I'm talking about because they too experienced the exact same thing - and to them I would say, no you're not crazy, you're not being oversensitive, it is real, and you do have a right to be upset by it.
> 
> Anyway, wanted to throw that out there, because to me that's what's really going on here. And Mods, I think you guys know that is what the issue is, you just don't know how to address it - I don't either. Because the behavior is very deniable. "I was just joking." "That wasn't directed at you, not everything is about you, you know." It's easy to deny so it's very hard to address.
> I don't know what the solution is, but I felt it was time to get that elephant out in the open.


I think "text" is sometimes the hardest thing in the world. You type as it comes into your head and to everyone else it comes across the way you mean it, but to another person it comes across completely different.

I admit though i do use  and :Wideyed a lot !

One thing though, but i do find it amazing sometimes when people argue with mods - not that i think they are expecting us to kiss their feet or anything, but surely they do deserve some level of respect and no means no and shut up means shut up!

I mean they are "boss" - so their word should be final, no ?


----------



## Cleo38

PawsOnMe said:


> Thank you!! That looks great, will have to pick some up on my next tesco trip


I don't eat much vegan cheese but Violife is amazing!! It tastes like a mild cheddar & even not grilled it's really good


----------



## Westie Mum

Nettles said:


> This ^ Exactly this.
> 
> I haven't commented on the thread until now because I didn't know how to word it without sounding like I was talking in riddles, but the points you have made above are exactly why I (and a few others that I know of!!) no longer post on the forum very much.
> 
> *Snide remarks and cryptic nonsense disguised as "jokes" which are easily dismissed as "that's not who/what I was talking about" have caused the majority of the issues on this forum IMO. They look fairly innocent to most people, but they're disgustingly cruel and underhanded. And the people responsible get away with it time and time again.*
> 
> And for that reason, this is no longer a forum I really want to take part in very much.


Really ?!?! im obviously the least observant person in the word then @Nettles as i didnt realise this was going on especially towards you.

I dont think I was around much when version 1 of @O2.0 left so thats probably how that passed me by.

Im sorry both of you have felt like this being here  As you say, obviously done in such a manner so general people dont notice, which tbh makes that even more horrible 

I have been around while the last Brexit post was going on and saw the comments towards @stockwellcat. which i thought were very bad but then they kept being removed. I kinda wish i had reported the posts myself now rather than just read it and let it continue  Something i need to think about, because i would never walk past someone being abused in the street without trying to help so im not sure why i havent done something about it online


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

O2.0 said:


> Yes they are aware.


That is assuming we are talking about the same people and I have a feeling we are not. I've sort of hinted at it but if we are really going to clear the air lets have it out in the open :Nailbiting

So there is a person you are referring to who has chosen not to take part in this thread. There were several issues going on between you over a fair amount of time which were there for outsiders to see and read which did become uncomfortable to witness. Things happened and you decided to take a break from the forum which I applaud you for doing and equally applaud you for coming back which takes guts, but of course many of the people you are friendly with on the forum carried on the beef with that person - there was even a thread after you left (which you might have read) and I have witnessed several snarky comments aimed at that person along with some darn right confrontational ones and lots of off forum chat about it (which is fair enough off forum is off forum). I don't think this person can be expected to ignore being poked with a stick and I'm pretty sure the people doing the poking know there will eventually be something said that can be used to get that person banned. Several of us have been finding that back and forth goading/poking uncomfortable because we are not in either camp and frankly would prefer it to stop.

So to move forward can we wipe the slate clean and agree that

* if members feel that person (or any other person) is behaving inappropriately they report it to a mod with screen shots if necessary and don't keep bringing it into other threads in the forum. 
* If anyone feels they are being bullied report it immediately to the mods and if you feel the mods are not dealing with it or you feel unfairly treated pm another mod.
* Members reading threads where it seems another member is being bullied or unfairly treated/targeted also report it to a mod - the more reports the more evidence mods have.
* Members step in and stick up for anyone being bullied by anyone else or give a gentle reminder to someone who is being overly sensitive to general debate with a tap on the shoulder - suggestions welcome for how we give that tap on the shoulder - mine is to quote the post and just say "tone it down a bit please" but don't bring it up in other threads.
* Anyone getting or reading a "tone it down a bit please" request should refrain from telling the poster to butt out as they are not the forum police or a moderator.

Is that something we all feel we could work with? If not lets have suggestions and see where we end up.


----------



## Cleo38

How sad that adults behave like spiteful children by posting subtle digs at others ..... that's so weird, I just don't understand how people stoop so low. It's a pet forum FFS! I had no idea this sort of stuff went on (or goes on), hopefully it can stop now & people can remember that it's only a forum & to walk away for a bit if they find themselves getting that upset


----------



## Nettles

Westie Mum said:


> Really ?!?! im obviously the least observant person in the word then @Nettles as i didnt realise this was going on especially towards you.


Oh no no no, not towards me (sorry, should have made that clearer!)
But it's happening time and time again to others and it's pathetic.


----------



## stockwellcat.

I have simply put the people I want to ignore on ignore and I will not be removing them. This means I do not see what they are saying when I am logged in and therefore do not see what is being said and therefore I can just carry on with civilised conversations. I will only know about any content aimed at me if it is pointed out via another member. I'd prefer not to know and anything that is wrong towards me reported.

An apology will always be accepted by myself. I have apologised myself for anything I may have said that may have upset anyone in the past in this thread and I hope that clears the air with me and any bad feelings towards me from other members for anything I may have said wrong in the past?

I am staying out of any B related threads. RPH has threatened to use her broom so I am staying away from these types of threads.

So I hope now people don't have any bad feelings towards me and if they do please pm me so we can clear the air away from public view. I would like to move on from all this and put things I may have done wrong behind me and wipe the slate clean.

Thanks again RPH for this thread.


----------



## Sacrechat

Kittynanna said:


> Not sure if they still sell it but Morrisons used to sell Snowdonia cheeses, I used to get the black coated one (Black Bomber) for my Uncle ....he loved it.


 Ocado sell Snowdonia cheese but not all of them including not the pickle onion sadly.


----------



## noushka05

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Good morning campers. Can we take the actual Brexit argument into a Brexit thread please, sorry to be precious but we all know how those threads end and I would hate to see this one go the same way as it is supposed to be addressing the issues that cause threads to be closed and members to either be banned or leave.


Sorry I replied before I noticed this


----------



## Sacrechat

Deleted.


----------



## stuaz

noushka05 said:


> Sorry I replied before I noticed this


@rottiepointerhouse is going to come after you with her broom.... I would run... RUN!


----------



## Gemmaa

Edit: Removed quote containing B related stuffs


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

noushka05 said:


> Sorry I replied before I noticed this





stuaz said:


> @rottiepointerhouse is going to come after you with her broom.... I would run... RUN!


I am indeed. @noushka05 consider yourself swept right out and into the newly running Brexit thread :Woot:Woot


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

rottiepointerhouse said:


> * if members feel that person (or any other person) is behaving inappropriately they report it to a mod with screen shots if necessary and don't keep bringing it into other threads in the forum.
> * If anyone feels they are being bullied report it immediately to the mods and if you feel the mods are not dealing with it or you feel unfairly treated pm another mod.
> * Members reading threads where it seems another member is being bullied or unfairly treated/targeted also report it to a mod - the more reports the more evidence mods have.
> * Members step in and stick up for anyone being bullied by anyone else or give a gentle reminder to someone who is being overly sensitive to general debate with a tap on the shoulder - suggestions welcome for how we give that tap on the shoulder - mine is to quote the post and just say "tone it down a bit please" but don't bring it up in other threads.
> * Anyone getting or reading a "tone it down a bit please" request should refrain from telling the poster to butt out as they are not the forum police or a moderator.
> 
> Is that something we all feel we could work with? If not lets have suggestions and see where we end up.


From reading this thread (yes, all the way through ) it does seem that something does need to be put 'in writing' if you like. Just saying 'why isn't everybody a bit nicer to each other' is never going to be enough. Self moderation should work but rarely does. Peer group moderation is stronger as it makes certain behaviours socially unacceptable.

I don't wander into the General Forum very often and virtually never into political threads but I love being part of the dog section which is pretty well moderated in my opinion.

I do feel that if threads are locked then I would rather they were left there ...even with the offending posts ....so that people can see for themselves why it was deemed necessary to close.

However I do think that a separate political corner - with a headed warning that it will have a lower level of moderation - may give those people with a passion for politics a chance to really get down to it. Let;s be honest politics has always attracted strong views and disparate behaviour. The house of commons often sounds like a farm yard.

J


----------



## Rafa

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> do feel that if threads are locked then I would rather they were left there ...even with the offending posts ....so that people can see for themselves why it was deemed necessary to close.


I agree.


----------



## Elles

I could try to point out that if you feel passionately about something and are convinced you are right, chasing away those with neutral or opposing views isn’t the way to win converts. You’ll just be preaching to the already converted.


----------



## SusieRainbow

*However I do think that a separate political corner - with a headed warning that it will have a lower level of moderation - may give those people with a passion for politics a chance to really get down to it. Let;s be honest politics has always attracted strong views and disparate behaviour. The house of commons often sounds like a farm yard. *

J[/QUOTE]
This what we're asking for.
As for leaving the deleted comments in , they are sometimes truly vile and sickening - some I've had directed at me for daring to moderate !
We have to remember the lurkers who may spend a while browsing the forum before plucking up courage to post . As these unpleasant comments are not typical of the forum , but an exception , it gives a false impression overall, not a welcoming one at all.
We're not trying to paper the cracks or trying to create a falsely cute and fluffy image , just trying to keep the forum a clean and pleasant place to be.


----------



## noushka05

stuaz said:


> @rottiepointerhouse is going to come after you with her broom.... I would run... RUN!














rottiepointerhouse said:


> I am indeed. @noushka05 consider yourself swept right out and into the newly running Brexit thread :Woot:Woot


A new brexit thread you say??:Smuggrin


----------



## diefenbaker

O2.0 said:


> I don't know what the solution is, but I felt it was time to get that elephant out in the open.


The solution is acceptance that the internet is a cesspool. At least on PF we do not typically get death threats ( I hope ). Will there be an O2.1 with bug fixes ?


----------



## Elles

Gemmaa said:


> Perhaps you could delete this and put it in the actual B thread


Now your turn to delete the quote of the post you asked to be deleted. :Hilarious


----------



## noushka05

O2.0 said:


> Facts are great, agreed. But what people forget is that two equally intelligent, open-minded, and well researched human beings can look a the same facts and come to different conclusions. And here's the thing - neither of them is wrong. Neither of them may be right either. Not everything in this world boils down to "right and wrong" - that's actually a pretty immature way of seeing the world if you ask me.
> 
> Why can't people just accept that not everyone sees the world the same way. Just because my opinion on things differs from yours doesn't mean I'm wrong, doesn't mean I don't understand the facts, doesn't mean I don't care about X, Y, Z... It just means I saw the same thing you saw and came to a different conclusion. That's how the world works and we could all go a long way towards trying to comprehend that people are indeed different and think differently, and that's OKAY!!
> 
> I think what we can all agree on is that name calling, snide comments, going around the forum making little digs in unrelated areas, and general mean-spirited behavior is NOT okay nor productive to a good forum vibe


Sorry I hope I'm allowed to just respond to this post on here? (I promise I wont mention the B word:Bag)

Its not always okay though, and it can be very dangerous. One of the reasons we're losing the battle against climate change is because masses of people with no scientific qualifications in the subject, believe they are better informed to evaluate the science than the climate scientists. This is why, imo, we should listen to the consensual position of experts. I always try to apply this to issues where applicable. It doesnt mean I dont have an opinion of my own (as I keep getting told lol ) it means I base my opinions on the most reliable sources


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> That is assuming we are talking about the same people and I have a feeling we are not. I've sort of hinted at it but if we are really going to clear the air lets have it out in the open :Nailbiting
> 
> So there is a person you are referring to who has chosen not to take part in this thread. There were several issues going on between you over a fair amount of time which were there for outsiders to see and read which did become uncomfortable to witness. Things happened and you decided to take a break from the forum which I applaud you for doing and equally applaud you for coming back which takes guts, but of course many of the people you are friendly with on the forum carried on the beef with that person - there was even a thread after you left (which you might have read) and I have witnessed several snarky comments aimed at that person along with some darn right confrontational ones and lots of off forum chat about it (which is fair enough off forum is off forum). I don't think this person can be expected to ignore being poked with a stick and I'm pretty sure the people doing the poking know there will eventually be something said that can be used to get that person banned. Several of us have been finding that back and forth goading/poking uncomfortable because we are not in either camp and frankly would prefer it to stop.
> 
> So to move forward can we wipe the slate clean and agree that
> 
> * if members feel that person (or any other person) is behaving inappropriately they report it to a mod with screen shots if necessary and don't keep bringing it into other threads in the forum.
> * If anyone feels they are being bullied report it immediately to the mods and if you feel the mods are not dealing with it or you feel unfairly treated pm another mod.
> * Members reading threads where it seems another member is being bullied or unfairly treated/targeted also report it to a mod - the more reports the more evidence mods have.
> * Members step in and stick up for anyone being bullied by anyone else or give a gentle reminder to someone who is being overly sensitive to general debate with a tap on the shoulder - suggestions welcome for how we give that tap on the shoulder - mine is to quote the post and just say "tone it down a bit please" but don't bring it up in other threads.
> * Anyone getting or reading a "tone it down a bit please" request should refrain from telling the poster to butt out as they are not the forum police or a moderator.
> 
> Is that something we all feel we could work with? If not lets have suggestions and see where we end up.


But we *do* do those things you're suggesting .

BTW This person 02.0 referred to has indeed posted in this thread at least once.
If one member has enough valid complaints against them from different members over a period of time then the Mods should deal with him effectively . I have on more than one occasion been on the receiving end of this persons anger for voicing my opinion over the last year or two on the topic thread and for sticking up for SWC . 
I do use the ignore, its a useful tool but I am not going to ignore being mocked or bullied. 
Sorry but I will not be bullied and I will continue to defend myself if the Mods don't deal with it .


----------



## Kimmikins

Nettles said:


> This ^ Exactly this.
> 
> I haven't commented on the thread until now because I didn't know how to word it without sounding like I was talking in riddles, but the points you have made above are exactly why I (and a few others that I know of!!) no longer post on the forum very much.
> 
> Snide remarks and cryptic nonsense disguised as "jokes" which are easily dismissed as "that's not who/what I was talking about" have caused the majority of the issues on this forum IMO. They look fairly innocent to most people, but they're disgustingly cruel and underhanded. And the people responsible get away with it time and time again.
> 
> And for that reason, this is no longer a forum I really want to take part in very much.


I've seen this too. Also, a lot of cliquey 'insider' jokes or things that went right over my head. I felt like the loner at school, so I decided to just step back a bit. Those doggos and people that I am genuinely invested in, I still get to "see" through he medium of FB and IG.

Also, I'm rubbish at spotting trolls and new incarnations of members, so I have no clue who @02.0 is 

Ultimately, I just want to forget RL sometimes, and revel in the joys of dogs.


----------



## stockwellcat.

kimthecat said:


> I have on more than one occasion been on the receiving end of this persons anger for voicing my opinion over the last year or two on the topic thread and for sticking up for SWC .


Thank you for sticking up for me previously but the ignore tool on everyones profile features is a good tool. In future please just screen capture what is said and pm mods to let them know of the unacceptable behaviour. I will not be able to see what has been said unless you qoute me in (but I'd rather not know) as the ignore tool is working great for me when logged in.


> I do use the ignore, its a useful tool but I am not going to ignore being mocked or bullied.


Again screen capture and let mods know to avoid confrontation. 


> Sorry but I will not be bullied


And nobody should be on here. I just hope mods will take appropiate action if this behaviour is bought to their attention?


----------



## O2.0

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So there is a person you are referring to who has chosen not to take part in this thread. There were several issues going on between you over a fair amount of time which were there for outsiders to see and read which did become uncomfortable to witness. Things happened and you decided to take a break from the forum which I applaud you for doing and equally applaud you for coming back which takes guts, but of course many of the people you are friendly with on the forum carried on the beef with that person - there was even a thread after you left (which you might have read) and I have witnessed several snarky comments aimed at that person along with some darn right confrontational ones and lots of off forum chat about it (which is fair enough off forum is off forum). I don't think this person can be expected to ignore being poked with a stick and I'm pretty sure the people doing the poking know there will eventually be something said that can be used to get that person banned. Several of us have been finding that back and forth goading/poking uncomfortable because we are not in either camp and frankly would prefer it to stop.


My post was not about just one person. 
Yes, it did happen to me, but my post was not about just my particular situation. And I'm not sure you've got the right person. I have had heated discussions with a lot of people on here, doesn't mean we don't get along. I'm just passionate about a lot of things and I have a forceful way of posting that looks more serious than I mean it. 
I'll use @Blitz as an example (and she never comes in general so this will be fun). She and I butt heads on dog training, and our posts to each other might look heated and like we don't like each other, but we actually do even if she's totally wrong most of the time on dog training 

Conversely, there are members who's posts I agree with 90% of the time, but they just rub me the wrong way, so I may go around liking their posts, but don't interact with them much.

No, what I'm talking about, I've seen others go through it perpetrated by different members. Sometimes the comments are directed at specific mods which is even meaner because the mod really can't do anything because then it looks like retaliatory moderating. It's really insidious behavior.

This will probably shock her because @rona and I never see eye to eye on anything and have had heated interactions, but I've seen it directed towards her too and she left around that time, not sure if because of that or what, but I didn't say anything when this happened to her, and in hindsight I wish I had.

It's super complicated and I really don't even know how to go about drilling down to the root and dealing with it.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> But we *do* do those things you're suggesting .
> 
> BTW This person 02.0 referred to has indeed posted in this thread at least once.
> If one member has enough valid complaints against them from different members over a period of time then the Mods should deal with him effectively . I have on more than one occasion been on the receiving end of this persons anger for voicing my opinion over the last year or two on the topic thread and for sticking up for SWC .
> I do use the ignore, its a useful tool but I am not going to ignore being mocked or bullied.
> Sorry but I will not be bullied and I will continue to defend myself if the Mods don't deal with it .


Have I suggested anywhere that you cannot or should not defend yourself? Have I suggested anywhere that you should not stick up for SWC? I thought my list suggested quite the opposite. If you feel you have been bullied by this person and that you have not instigated any of the behaviours I've mentioned throughout this thread then you must take up your grievance with each and every mod on the forum or take it up directly with the person in the open forum on the thread concerned or directly ask the mods by tagging them on this thread why they haven't dealt with the issue?


----------



## Sacrechat

Kimmikins said:


> I've seen this too. Also, a lot of cliquey 'insider' jokes or things that went right over my head. I felt like the loner at school, so I decided to just step back a bit. Those doggos and people that I am genuinely invested in, I still get to "see" through he medium of FB and IG.
> 
> Also, I'm rubbish at spotting trolls and new incarnations of members, so I have no clue who @02.0 is
> 
> Ultimately, I just want to forget RL sometimes, and revel in the joys of dogs.


A lot goes over my head too. I'm glad it does. If I don't understand it, then it can't bother me. I live in blissful ignorance. Could be wrong but I suspect 02.0 rhymes with oh messy.


----------



## Kimmikins

Sacremist said:


> A lot goes over my head too. I'm glad it does. If I don't understand it, then it can't bother me. I live in blissful ignorance. Could be wrong but I suspect 02.0 rhymes with oh messy.


I am fortunate that I don't think I've had anything directed towards me for a while that I didn't deserve (as in, people have disagreed with me, but I've never felt it was ever beyond a reasonable discussion), I had it not long after I first joined, but thankfully the perpetrators have left, and since then I've been in blissful ignorance with you


----------



## kimthecat

stockwellcat. said:


> Again screen capture and let mods know to avoid confrontation.


yes ,definitely ! . It was discussed earlier about how to do a screen capture . Its easy to do . If the posts are deleted then you have proof it was said as often people will later deny what they said.


----------



## SusieRainbow

It can be difficult for mods to ascertain what is bullying and what is banter. I have been surprised to get reports from people about being bullied and my impression's been that they have given as good as they get and it really sounds like banter.
Without reading every thread, every comment , how are we supposed to differentiate ?
( I am not referring to any members who are participating in this current discussion, more to someone who is no longer a member.) 
We aren't psychic and can only make judgement on what we're told.
Obviously if we get a report of someone being bullied or ridiculed it's looked into and the appropriate action taken.


----------



## diefenbaker

kimthecat said:


> If one member has enough valid complaints against them from different members over a period of time then the Mods should deal with *him* effectively.


Err... sexist.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

O2.0 said:


> My post was not about just one person.
> Yes, it did happen to me, but my post was not about just my particular situation. And I'm not sure you've got the right person. I have had heated discussions with a lot of people on here, doesn't mean we don't get along. I'm just passionate about a lot of things and I have a forceful way of posting that looks more serious than I mean it.
> I'll use @Blitz as an example (and she never comes in general so this will be fun). She and I butt heads on dog training, and our posts to each other might look heated and like we don't like each other, but we actually do even if she's totally wrong most of the time on dog training
> 
> Conversely, there are members who's posts I agree with 90% of the time, but they just rub me the wrong way, so I may go around liking their posts, but don't interact with them much.
> 
> No, what I'm talking about, I've seen others go through it perpetrated by different members. Sometimes the comments are directed at specific mods which is even meaner because the mod really can't do anything because then it looks like retaliatory moderating. It's really insidious behavior.
> 
> This will probably shock her because @rona and I never see eye to eye on anything and have had heated interactions, but I've seen it directed towards her too and she left around that time, not sure if because of that or what, but I didn't say anything when this happened to her, and in hindsight I wish I had.
> 
> It's super complicated and I really don't even know how to go about drilling down to the root and dealing with it.


Oh OK sorry I genuinely thought you were referring to one poster. I hate to see one member getting ganged up on by others and sadly I have seen it happen a fair bit resulting in some good people leaving which does make me sad especially when its a ban and its someone who doesn't have much support in real life 

Yes I do get what you mean, and sure we have locked horns a hell of a lot of times in both dog chat and general chat but I'm absolutely fine with that. I wouldn't be though if things we disagreed about in the past (say religion for example) got dragged up in dog chat. We've all got people who rub us up the wrong way I'm sure, and I have no doubt I'm high on that list with lots of members :Hilarious:Hilarious I have used ignore in the past but now I just choose not to interact with the people I find too draining or tricky

I don't know how to go about solving what you are talking about as its so difficult to grasp.


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Have I suggested anywhere that you cannot or should not defend yourself? Have I suggested anywhere that you should not stick up for SWC? I thought my list suggested quite the opposite. If you feel you have been bullied by this person and that you have not instigated any of the behaviours I've mentioned throughout this thread then you must take up your grievance with each and every mod on the forum or take it up directly with the person in the open forum on the thread concerned or directly ask the mods by tagging them on this thread why they haven't dealt with the issue?


no you haven't said that . Your list is a good idea but those things have been tried and reports have been made to Mods. 
My point is that if one person has enough complaints against him over the years then the Mods deleting the offending posts is not enough, its not effective . The same behaviour is repeated, nothing really resolved.


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> We're discussing a particular person so its allowed .


I'm sorry but not really happy to allow that, it could cause major problems.


----------



## Westie Mum

Nettles said:


> Oh no no no, not towards me (sorry, should have made that clearer!)
> But it's happening time and time again to others and it's pathetic.


Ahhh I see. Well I hope you come back more as a regular. I've missed hearing about Phoebe and her crazy stuff 

Maybe if the others it's happened to, could pop on here to express their opinions, might help clear the air.



Sacremist said:


> Ocado sell Snowdonia cheese but not all of them including not the pickle onion sadly.


Damn !



Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> However I do think that a separate political corner - with a headed warning that it will have a lower level of moderation - may give those people with a passion for politics a chance to really get down to it.


Although that would stop most people having to read it - how would that stop the bullying/general nastiness/snide comments spilling over to other parts of the forum? I'm not sure if it would actually make it worse, if they are allowed to carry on unmoderated and then have to remember to behave nicer everywhere else.


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> My post was not about just one person.
> Yes, it did happen to me, but my post was not about just my particular situation. And I'm not sure you've got the right person. I have had heated discussions with a lot of people on here, doesn't mean we don't get along. I'm just passionate about a lot of things and I have a forceful way of posting that looks more serious than I mean it.
> .


i

blimey yeah , We clashed over a load of things . I'm never gonna mention leadmate again :Hilarious but I have learnt a lot from the discussions and the advice you give in Dog Behaviour etc is sound.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> no you haven't said that . Your list is a good idea but those things have been tried and reports have been made to Mods.
> My point is that if one person has enough complaints against him over the years then the Mods deleting the offending posts is not enough, its not effective . The same behaviour is repeated, nothing really resolved.


But if you read @SusieRainbow 's post above she says sometimes when there are reports of bullying and mods look at them they are more like banter and the other person is giving as good as they get. I've seen that too, someone having a heated debate, holding their own then says they are leaving the thread or the forum because of how they are being treated. Its hard when we have members of different nationalities and/or different sense of humour to always know when they are joking or being unkind. I don't know what the answer is - if my list isn't enough then what else do you suggest?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm sorry but not really happy to allow that, it could cause major problems.


Yes and one of my bugbears is people starting threads specifically to complain about someone else instead of going through the proper channels.


----------



## Sacrechat

I suspect in most disagreements on here both sides give as good as they get. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a situation where one individual is 100% victim, but then I don’t usually visit political threads, so I’ve probably missed incidents where it’s happened.


----------



## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm sorry but not really happy to allow that, it could cause major problems.


OK Yes of course. This person was mentioned by already and I just wanted to add my experience. If i could find the emoji with the zipper over the mouth I would add it here . 

ETA the orignal poster who I was replying to pointed out it was sexist to say He when referring to someone if you dont know the sex. That's a discussion in itself ! 
Despite being female , Im not bothered if the masculine term is used


----------



## diefenbaker

O2.0 said:


> One member is chiding another for sarcasm.


It's been locked now.


----------



## Westie Mum

kimthecat said:


> OK Yes of course. This person was mentioned by already and I just wanted to add my experience. If i could find the emoji with the zipper over the mouth I would add it here .


Hmmmm doesn't like zip over mouth emoji from iPad on here either !


----------



## kimthecat

Whatever is decided, nothing will really change .


----------



## O2.0

kimthecat said:


> i
> 
> blimey yeah , We clashed over a load of things . I'm never gonna mention leadmate again :Hilarious but I have learnt a lot from the discussions and the advice you give in Dog Behaviour etc is sound.


Oh god I forgot about that LOL!

Yeah, just because I disagree with someone doesn't mean I don't like them as a person 



diefenbaker said:


> *The solution is acceptance that the internet is a cesspool.* At least on PF we do not typically get death threats ( I hope ). Will there be an O2.1 with bug fixes ?


The bolded is probably the sanest response on here. And yup, we do have to accept that there are just some miserable people about and do what we can to not let ourselves be affected.

I'm skipping the version 2.1 and going straight to version 4.0 which will be much more expensive but nothing much changed


----------



## stockwellcat.

I probably have had certain people say things about me and realiated before but with the slate being hopefully wiped clean I am going to take a step back, think what I am going to say in future or say nothing at all. Sometimes it's best to think of your own actions or what you are going to say before posting. Most of us are adults on here and therefore should be careful how we say things to each other and be a bit more respectful towards one another. If you feel somebody is bullying you perhaps look at what caused that to happen and just not reply, if it is a case of nothing was said to cause it do as has been suggested and alert the appropiate people in this case the mods. Sometimes it is our own behavour that causes conflict and stopping and thinking and saying nothing is the adult thing to do instead of causing more conflict or making the situation worse.

If you do not feel you can get on with someone put them on ignore and do not reply to them. I know I have my faults but this thread has helped me look at myself and my conduct on here.

I appreciate all the hard work the mods do on here and perhaps we as guests of this forum should help them by doing the above.

Sorry I do not mean to offend anyone with this post or sound patronising in any way.


----------



## Blackadder

kimthecat said:


> Whatever is decided, nothing will really change .


Exactly right!

I'm not political in the slightest, I don't read them so I really have no idea who's done what to who.

What I will say is that Politics & Religion are two topics where reasoned debate *will *degenerate into a fight, for want of a better word. It doesn't just happen on the internet but in real life too. For some reason these two subjects can cause normally right minded people lose the plot, the red mist descends & it's mayhem! These are the very same people who are as nice & helpful as can be on the other fora!

All the internet does is make it easier to say stuff you might not normally say "in person" to someone.

One thing is for certain, if political threads are allowed then there will be fireworks... it's how politics is, has been & always will be.

It's been suggested that political threads have their own sub-forum with "relaxed" moderation (with a warning to that effect) & I reckon this is a good idea. At least then everyone knows what they are getting into should they dip a toe & it leaves the rest of the board free for us normal posters 

Of course stalking, bullying or whatever is totally unacceptable so it's up to us, the members, to make sure incidents are reported & not allowed to drag on to the point where members feel the need to leave & for the mods (good luck!) to act quickly.

However, as @kimthecat said it's doubtful that anything will change... people are what they are!

BTW: @O2.0 welcome back


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

SusieRainbow said:


> This what we're asking for.
> As for leaving the deleted comments in , they are sometimes truly vile and sickening - some I've had directed at me for daring to moderate !
> We have to remember the lurkers who may spend a while browsing the forum before plucking up courage to post . As these unpleasant comments are not typical of the forum , but an exception , it gives a false impression overall, not a welcoming one at all.
> We're not trying to paper the cracks or trying to create a falsely cute and fluffy image , just trying to keep the forum a clean and pleasant place to be.


Yes, you suggested there was a separare political forum 35 pages ago  and I think it's a great idea.

I do understand why you delete some of the posts - I can only imagine some of the abuse you have to put up with. Actually, on the board I was working with about 5 years ago now the board owner got a death threat that the police acted on. (Suffice to say the internet is not as anonymous as people tend to think - the police knocked on the door of the person who made the threat). So yes, I suspect we should all accept the internet world is not always a sunny place. But as someone who happily visits this forum most days I am surprisingly ignorant of some of the offensive postings as when I arrive with my early morning coffee they are very often gone, so that is why I asked that I could perhaps be left to read and see what idiots people are making of themselves.

Perhaps for the Mods there could be a card system like in football - low level 'don't start anything' warnings could receive a Yellow Card (in the actual post). More serious personal/antagonistic posts could receive an Amber Card (in the post itself) this means you have been warned and Red Cards could be reserved for the 'You've really f*cked up now' posts. Three strikes and you're out. And you miss the Cup Final.

J


----------



## cheekyscrip

I have impression that lots of people have problems with a bit of irony or sarcasm, but they themselves can lay it thick.

So - I am posting things that I believe in, though they might not please the profum vulgo.

So I will get few punches and few digs.

I will let it be, give back if it merits a return or ignore it if it fell too low to bother.

I only reply to those I respect - so feel good!

But I am quite surprised when someone can actually insult and then complain that we’re bullied!!!

Or ridiculed.

People have rights to sardonic, caustic or even sarcastic remarks.

At least they are funny if in a dark way...
If anyone has problems with that should really avoid any contentious topics and politics in particular.

Our Parliament give very bad example indeed.

Good thing our Mods do not go there!


----------



## Rafa

cheekyscrip said:


> At least they are funny if in a dark way...


Not always.


----------



## kimthecat

Westie Mum said:


> Perhaps for the Mods there could be a card system like in football - low level 'don't start anything' warnings could receive a Yellow Card (in the actual post). More serious personal/antagonistic posts could receive an Amber Card (in the post itself) this means you have been warned and Red Cards could be reserved for the 'You've really f*cked up now' posts. Three strikes and you're out. And you miss the Cup Final.
> 
> J


Now there's an idea !


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> Now there's an idea !


We do have a similar system.
First infraction - a warning that goes on the profile page. 
Second infraction - a further warning , also recorded.
Then a ban - depending on the reason , temporary or permanent.


----------



## Westie Mum

Already the cross thread snipey comments have started in the brexit thread. And yes @cheekyscrip i am calling you out on this because you want the political threads and yet you are the first person with the snide comment within a few hours of the new brexit thread and your very first post on there :Banghead

From this thread ....



Westie Mum said:


> Unless I'm missing posts, @cheekyscrip seems to be the only person posting on this thread wanting the political threads to continue ? Would it therefore not be easier for the forum as a whole to vote if they should be allowed or banned ?





cheekyscrip said:


> Strangely @noush





Westie Mum said:


> I did say "unless I'm missing posts", although I don't think noushka has posted before I typed that


On the new brexit thread ....



cheekyscrip said:


> But, but it was said I am the only one interested in political threads?
> 
> What all those imposters are doing here?


I thought we were talking about behaving like the adults we are? No ?


----------



## Westie Mum

kimthecat said:


> Now there's an idea !


Well thank you, but I never said it lol @Jamesgoeswalkies did


----------



## MollySmith

I have asked the mods to close a thread of mine that I could see was getting heated. We can practice due diligence ourselves and perhaps not create more problems by creating threads that replicate closed ones... I see that there is another Brexit thread started and I suspect not with the intent of the original knowing a little about the creator. I've had to measure my response by sitting on my hands and not attacking the keyboard! 

Saying sorry or maybe getting a sense check with someone on here you trust is a good idea.


----------



## diefenbaker

Sweet Baby Jesus. There are 146 logical fallacies !! How can you write a post without breaking at least 1 of them ?

http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm


----------



## stockwellcat.

Westie Mum said:


> Already the cross thread snipey comments have started in the brexit thread. And yes @cheekyscrip i am calling you out on this because you want the political threads and yet you are the first person with the snide comment within a few hours of the new brexit thread and your very first post on there :Banghead
> 
> From this thread ....
> 
> On the new brexit thread ....
> 
> I thought we were talking about behaving like the adults we are? No ?


Well IMO if the new B thread gets closed the mods should draw a line under it and say no more B related threads. I don't know what is going on in that thread as I am keeping my word on the B related threads and staying away.


----------



## diefenbaker

MollySmith said:


> Saying sorry or maybe getting a sense check with someone on here you trust is a good idea.


Don't come running to me for a sense check


----------



## MilleD

stockwellcat. said:


> I probably have had certain people say things about me and realiated before but with the slate being hopefully wiped clean I am going to take a step back, think what I am going to say in future or say nothing at all. Sometimes it's best to think of your own actions or what you are going to say before posting. Most of us are adults on here and therefore should be careful how we say things to each other and be a bit more respectful towards one another. If you feel somebody is bullying you perhaps look at what caused that to happen and just not reply, if it is a case of nothing was said to cause it do as has been suggested and alert the appropiate people in this case the mods. Sometimes it is our own behavour that causes conflict and stopping and thinking and saying nothing is the adult thing to do instead of causing more conflict or making the situation worse.
> 
> If you do not feel you can get on with someone put them on ignore and do not reply to them. I know I have my faults but this thread has helped me look at myself and my conduct on here.
> 
> I appreciate all the hard work the mods do on here and perhaps we as guests of this forum should help them by doing the above.
> 
> Sorry I do not mean to offend anyone with this post or sound patronising in any way.


I think just an acceptance of an argument that can't be won, right or wrong, can prevent the back and forth sniping that a lot of threads descend into, with the usual people going on and on, then the thread goes round and round and to be honest I don't even have the strength to read them, never mind bother replying.

Maybe if that acceptance happened it would make for a less stressful environment.

There are a few posters with 'last word' syndrome. Just let them have it if it makes them feel better.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> But we *do* do those things you're suggesting .
> 
> BTW This person 02.0 referred to has indeed posted in this thread at least once.
> If one member has enough valid complaints against them from different members over a period of time then the Mods should deal with him effectively . I have on more than one occasion been on the receiving end of this persons anger for voicing my opinion over the last year or two on the topic thread and for sticking up for SWC .
> I do use the ignore, its a useful tool but I am not going to ignore being mocked or bullied.
> Sorry but I will not be bullied and I will continue to defend myself if the Mods don't deal with it .


I'm sorry you have been through that and you too @stockwellcat., I missed that and I can see that's frustrating.

Without going into specifics or naming names, it does everyone good on here to remember that there is a human being behind every profile and we've all had life experiences that we could share (if we wanted to) but shape how we post and that must be respected. There's nothing worse than arrogance I find and it quickly leads to bullying especially if those life experiences are used against us. That's a breach of trust and human kindness.

I do make generous use of the ignore feature myself. Not necessarily because of any bullying but because with many new, and returning posters (I'm getting a little bit better at spotting them), I find in a few posts it's very easy to spot the ones that offer no value to me personally in terms of views (the spidery senses tell me that they are just here to wind up others or manners. Periodically if I remember I check in and see if they have improved  I'm occasionally surprised.


----------



## MollySmith

diefenbaker said:


> Don't come running to me for a sense check


Dammit, I'll have to ask @Zaros


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

SusieRainbow said:


> We do have a similar system.
> First infraction - a warning that goes on the profile page.
> Second infraction - a further warning , also recorded.
> Then a ban - depending on the reason , temporary or permanent.


The difference is if you get a yellow card in football, it's public. And it marks the actual infringement for everyone to see.

J


----------



## SusieRainbow

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> The difference is if you get a yellow card in football, it's public. And it marks the actual infringement for everyone to see.
> 
> J


Ahh, yes, I see your point. So we should make warnings public.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

SusieRainbow said:


> Ahh, yes, I see your point. So we should make warnings public.


Yup.

J


----------



## lymorelynn

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> The difference is if you get a yellow card in football, it's public. And it marks the actual infringement for everyone to see.
> 
> J


While I can understand that it would be helpful or satisfying to see that someone had been given a warning, I don't think it would be very fair. It would give others too much ammunition to use against someone they had a grudge against or cause the members who liked the person to rally round on their behalf and perhaps cause further upset.For the same reason we don't usually give a reason for banning someone or say for how long they have been excluded.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

lymorelynn said:


> While I can understand that it would be helpful or satisfying to see that someone had been given a warning,


I wasn't thinking of finding it helpful or satisfying ...I was thinking of nipping things in the bud.

J


----------



## lymorelynn

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> I wasn't thinking of finding it helpful or satisfying ...I was thinking of nipping things in the bud.
> 
> J


I know - but believe me it will be those things. Everyone has their detractors and supporters and things go on in private messaging that we have no knowledge of. I just don't think issuing public warnings would be helpful.


----------



## stockwellcat.

MilleD said:


> I think just an acceptance of an argument that can't be won, right or wrong, can prevent the back and forth sniping that a lot of threads descend into, with the usual people going on and on, then the thread goes round and round and to be honest I don't even have the strength to read them, never mind bother replying.
> 
> Maybe if that acceptance happened it would make for a less stressful environment.
> 
> There are a few posters with 'last word' syndrome. Just let them have it if it makes them feel better.


You're absolutely right with everything you said above.

I'd prefer not to go anywhere near B related threads or political threads anymore. I know I haven't helped in the past on these threads and I have learnt a lesson and that lesson is not to bother with these types of threads there is more to life and pleanty more subjects to talk about.


----------



## Sacrechat

stockwellcat. said:


> You're absolutely right with everything you said above.
> 
> I'd prefer not to go anywhere near B related threads or political threads anymore. I know I haven't helped in the past on these threads and I have learnt a lesson and that lesson is not to bother with these types of threads there is more to life and pleanty more subjects to talk about.


We all live and hopefully learn. Your peace of mind is more important than winning an argument: a lesson I'm learning or trying to learn as well.


----------



## Rafa

Sacremist said:


> We all live and hopefully learn. Your peace of mind is more important than winning an argument: a lesson I'm learning or trying to learn as well.


I think this is the point.

On the Brexit threads we have had, based around events that took place two years ago and are, therefore, a 'done deal', there appear to be those who love to argue the same points over and over.

Nobody is going to capitulate and hold up their hand and I feel that's because a fair number of 'regulars' on those threads don't want the argument to end. They love it.


----------



## ForestWomble

May I ask, how do you report bullying in a PM?


----------



## Sacrechat

Rafa said:


> I think this is the point.
> 
> On the Brexit threads we have had, based around events that took place two years ago and are, therefore, a 'done deal', there appear to be those who love to argue the same points over and over.
> 
> Nobody is going to capitulate and hold up their hand and I feel that's because a fair number of 'regulars' on those threads don't want the argument to end. They love it.


For me that is one of the things I hate about political threads is the constant repetition that takes place. I find it mind blowingly tedious to read.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Westie Mum said:


> Already the cross thread snipey comments have started in the brexit thread. And yes @cheekyscrip i am calling you out on this because you want the political threads and yet you are the first person with the snide comment within a few hours of the new brexit thread and your very first post on there :Banghead
> 
> From this thread ....
> 
> On the new brexit thread ....
> 
> I thought we were talking about behaving like the adults we are? No ?


You see. - banter? Imposters obviously used jokingly but anyone can read into it whatever they want. 
" stangely & [email protected] was a mis -post / was interrupted and it went unfinished.

Obviously someone might feel offended as anything could be taken out of context and lost in translation.

I see no offense in any of them, no insults no rudeness.

But if someone feels like they have to call mod police?
IMO people should be able to see and take a joke.

I do not even feel like apologizing.


----------



## SusieRainbow

You PM a mod , go onto their profile and click on 'start a conversation'. 
But it's better to do it via the report button as any mod around can be alerted and it will get investigated quicker.


----------



## Sacrechat

Animallover26 said:


> May I ask, how do you report bullying in a PM?


I believe there is a report function on PMs received.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Sacremist said:


> For me that is one of the things I hate about political threads is the constant repetition that takes place. I find it mind blowingly tedious to read.


Same here ! Mind numbingly boring .


----------



## Rafa

cheekyscrip said:


> IMO people should be able to see and take a joke.


Absolutely.

Do remember though that a joke is only a joke if it's amusing.

There has been nothing remotely funny about some of the posts on the Brexit threads. If you say something very offensive or hurtful, it doesn't become a 'joke' because you say it was.


----------



## cheekyscrip

SusieRainbow said:


> Same here ! Mind numbingly boring .


I found them actually quite cathartic.

But possibly not if I were a mod.

Being a mod would totally gag me. :Nailbiting 
But I love a good, smart opponent with really sharp wit to banter with.
How much I missed the double edge of trouble....
Some opponents would exploit my weaknesses ruthlessly exposing me to such ridicule that I had to laugh at myself...
Maybe people just take themselves a tad too seriously?

Fifty shades of Brexit...unch


----------



## kimthecat

Westie Mum said:


> Well thank you, but I never said it lol @Jamesgoeswalkies did


:Hilarious I don't know how that happened !


----------



## Sacrechat

cheekyscrip said:


> I found them actually quite cathartic.
> 
> But possibly not if I were a mod.
> 
> Being a mod would totally gag me. :Nailbiting
> But I love a good, smart opponent with really sharp wit to banter with.
> How much I missed the double edge of trouble....
> Some opponents would exploit my weaknesses ruthlessly exposing me to such ridicule that I had to laugh at myself...
> Maybe people just take themselves a tad too seriously?
> 
> Fifty shades of Brexit...unch


I find reading novels cathartic, but if I had to read the same one over and over again, I would want to rip it to shreds and throw it on a bonfire.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Rafa said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Do remember though that a joke is only a joke if it's amusing.
> 
> There has been nothing remotely funny about some of the posts on the Brexit threads. If you say something very offensive or hurtful, it doesn't become a 'joke' because you say it was.


Possibly. I haven't posted them all, haven't read them all either.

But there were very good links, lots of useful information and lots of effort put into it by many.
Only a tiny minority of posts merited to be removed.
C'mon!!! Some pf members complained about cartoons!!!
Few comparisons come to mind but I will refrain!
Pro publico bono


----------



## cheekyscrip

Sacremist said:


> I find reading novels cathartic, but if I had to read the same one over and over again, I would want to rip it to shreds and throw it on a bonfire.


Now that will be cathartic!!!


----------



## Westie Mum

cheekyscrip said:


> You see. - banter? Imposters obviously used jokingly but anyone can read into it whatever they want.
> " stangely & [email protected] was a mis -post / was interrupted and it went unfinished.
> 
> Obviously someone might feel offended as anything could be taken out of context and lost in translation.
> 
> I see no offense in any of them, no insults no rudeness.
> 
> But if someone feels like they have to call mod police?
> IMO people should be able to see and take a joke.
> 
> I do not even feel like apologizing.


It's not banter. We have been discussing people carrying issues over on to other threads and snide comments being made which is exactly what you did.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Westie Mum said:


> It's not banter. We have been discussing people carrying issues over on to other threads and snide comments being made which is exactly what you did.


I disagree.
It is your interpretation that it was a snide comment.
I cannot be held responsible for how you wish to read it I am afraid.

It was meant as light hearted.
I know - I wrote it.
Shows how what was intended and received could differ. 
Basically we see what we expect to see.
Basic psychology.
Reality does not exist only the reflection of it through the experience of our mind.


----------



## SusieRainbow

cheekyscrip said:


> Possibly. I haven't posted them all, haven't read them all either.
> 
> But there were very good links, lots of useful information and lots of effort put into it by many.
> Only a tiny minority of posts merited to be removed.
> C'mon!!! Some pf members complained about cartoons!!!
> Few comparisons come to mind but I will refrain!
> Pro publico bono


Cartoons can be very offensive , being cartoons doesn't make them funny.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Sigh ! It was all going so well.


----------



## Rafa

@cheekyscrip.

None of us want this thread closed. It could be very useful and serve a good purpose in the long run.

If you want to discuss Brexit, could I suggest you go to the latest thread on that subject?


----------



## cheekyscrip

SusieRainbow said:


> Cartoons can be very offensive , being cartoons doesn't make them funny.


Even deadly so.

Yet those we had were no more offensive than say cartoons of the same politicians in "The Times".
Really funny drawing of May or BoJo is such an abomination?
To be called offensive?

When funny cartoons of Trump were posted no one cried!!! Same people who complain now liked them quite a lot!
Hypocrisy?


----------



## Westie Mum

cheekyscrip said:


> I disagree.
> It is your interpretation that it was a snide comment.
> I cannot be held responsible for how you wish to read it I am afraid.
> 
> It was meant as light hearted.
> I know - I wrote it.
> Shows how what was intended and received could differ.
> Basically we see what we expect to see.
> Basic psychology.
> Reality does not exist only the reflection of it through the experience of our mind.


You are missing the point but ....



SusieRainbow said:


> Sigh ! It was all going so well.


I don't want the thread to be closed so I'll leave the issue there.


----------



## Rafa

SusieRainbow said:


> Sigh ! It was all going so well.


It was @SusieRainbow and there's no reason why it can't continue to do so.

It seems it is one poster here who is derailing the thread.


----------



## kimthecat

:Banghead


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

MollySmith said:


> I have asked the mods to close a thread of mine that I could see was getting heated. We can practice due diligence ourselves and perhaps not create more problems by creating threads that replicate closed ones... I see that there is another Brexit thread started and I suspect not with the intent of the original knowing a little about the creator. I've had to measure my response by sitting on my hands and not attacking the keyboard!
> 
> Saying sorry or maybe getting a sense check with someone on here you trust is a good idea.


Just wanted to say in fairness the new thread was created at my suggestion this morning because this thread had started to turn into the actual Brexit thread debating Brexit rather than debating whether people can be trusted to behave when discussing it. One member said they couldn't discuss it elsewhere as there was no Brexit thread so I suggested someone open one and @JANICE199 very kindly obliged. I know it annoys you that said member hasn't used her vote in the past but she is quite blameless with regards to opening the new thread - blame me  and if you see me posting in there you have my permission to whack me with my broom :Wacky


----------



## stockwellcat.

I hope this thread continues going well?

I don't want this thread closed either.

I think I will logout and watch some TV for the rest of the evening in the hope this thread hasn't got a padlock symbol on it by the morning when I return.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

There really is no reason for it to descend into chaos, people have had their say and can move on. Hopefully the Brexit thread will stay open and those of us not interested in discussing it for now can give it a very wide berth


----------



## Goblin

SusieRainbow said:


> Cartoons can be very offensive , being cartoons doesn't make them funny.


There's me thinking of a judge dredd like cartoon character with "Mod" on their name badge shouting "I am the law".


----------



## O2.0

Well there ya go... My point about deniability has been illustrated perfectly.
"That's not how I meant it."
"You're the one taking it the wrong way."
"I was obviously just kidding, it's not my fault if you can't take a joke."

How on earth do you moderate that?

If people aren't willing to take responsibility for their own behavior we're stuck really.


----------



## O2.0

@cheekyscrip is your post in "Room 101" related to this thread?


----------



## Goblin

O2.0 said:


> How on earth do you moderate that?


It's called letting the mods do their jobs even if you disagree with them. I know they do discuss things amongst themselves to make what they consider a fair decision.


----------



## MollySmith

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Just wanted to say in fairness the new thread was created at my suggestion this morning because this thread had started to turn into the actual Brexit thread debating Brexit rather than debating whether people can be trusted to behave when discussing it. One member said they couldn't discuss it elsewhere as there was no Brexit thread so I suggested someone open one and @JANICE199 very kindly obliged. I know it annoys you that said member hasn't used her vote in the past but she is quite blameless with regards to opening the new thread - blame me  and if you see me posting in there you have my permission to whack me with my broom :Wacky


Hehe, forgiven entirely because I think broom thwacking is a marvellous way to run PF! Not that I'll be thwacking anyone, that does make sense and I didn't go back and read the posts from today, it's moved so fast and a well needed thread!


----------



## MollySmith

rottiepointerhouse said:


> There really is no reason for it to descend into chaos, people have had their say and can move on. Hopefully the Brexit thread will stay open and those of us not interested in discussing it for now can give it a very wide berth


Absolutely, it's been a really good discussion and let's leave Brexit elsewhere.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Westie Mum said:


> It's not banter. We have been discussing people carrying issues over on to other threads and snide comments being made which is exactly what you did.





O2.0 said:


> @cheekyscrip is your post in "Room 101" related to this thread?


I know this won't be popular but here goes. I've just been on the dreaded Brexit thread and I really didn't read it like that. I'm not sure its going to achieve anything for the harmony of the forum or the enjoyment of all users if we start following each other around and nit picking at posts in other threads. Does it matter? Is anyone being bullied? Just my opinion of course but not sure I like the way this is going.


----------



## kimthecat

Goblin said:


> It's called letting the mods do their jobs even if you disagree with them. I know they do discuss things amongst themselves to make what they consider a fair decision.


She has a point and I agree . We know the Mods discuss it but it makes it very difficult for them but if people deny and say those things , they may well have to take those comments at face value because they cant prove otherwise.


----------



## O2.0

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I know this won't be popular but here goes. I've just been on the dreaded Brexit thread and I really didn't read it like that. I'm not sure its going to achieve anything for the harmony of the forum or the enjoyment of all users if we start following each other around and nit picking at posts in other threads. Does it matter? Is anyone being bullied? Just my opinion of course but not sure I like the way this is going.


Which is a good example of two people seeing the same information and coming to a different conclusion. You're right it may not have been meant that way. 
And I too am not comfortable singling out one member, they're not the only one. One some levels we're all guilty. I've made comments about those who defend the dog kicker whenever they get a chance and I do have specific people in mind when I say that. Which yup, is the same sort of thing. 
So definitely more self-awareness on everyone's part is needed.

However, we have been discussing exactly this, and then it goes and happens. It felt important to illustrate that this is exactly what many of us are talking about.

And not for nothing, when someone says "that didn't feel like a joke to me, I'm not particularly amused" and you respond with "not my fault you're a snowflake who can't take a joke" that's... well, I don't know what it is, but definitely not cool.


----------



## SusieRainbow

I do think some of these so called 'games' carry quite an undercurrent of snarky references which cause upset. They aren't heavily moderated , maybe should be more so, but surely adults should be able to be trusted to play fair.


----------



## MollySmith

kimthecat said:


> She has a point and I agree . We know the Mods discuss it but it makes it very difficult for them but if people deny and say those things , they may well have to take those comments at face value because they cant prove otherwise.


Sometimes it's has to be the mods word is final or as @stockwellcat. said and I paraphrase (apologies) we have to walk away or ignore. Be the adult As a couple of threads on here recently and one very sad one should remind us, there is a reason to reflect and walk away. Plus I think that certain posters might think it's not seen but it is and mods need to bide their time to catch them out. In my other life I moderate a couple of groups on loss and there are a few who just edge under the radar but eventually trip up.

But the waiting is a right pain in the wotsits


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I know this won't be popular but here goes. I've just been on the dreaded Brexit thread and I really didn't read it like that. I'm not sure its going to achieve anything for the harmony of the forum or the enjoyment of all users if we start following each other around and nit picking at posts in other threads. Does it matter? Is anyone being bullied? Just my opinion of course but not sure I like the way this is going.


I got the impression that people were pointing out these posts as an example of the things that go on because they feel that a member in this thread is denying it. 
That's not very well explained but I hope you get the point . Another tactic is to continually deny .

All the points here are our opinions and we have differences of opinions . I thought that was the point of this thread.


----------



## kimthecat

MollySmith said:


> Plus I think that certain posters might think it's not seen but it is and mods need to bide their time to catch them out. In my other life I moderate a couple of groups on loss and there are a few who judge edge under the radar but eventually trip up.
> 
> But the waiting is a right pain in the wotsits


 I modded a small pet behaviour forum once and it really was small . Never , ever again !

ETA Ive underestimated how much work the Mods have to deal with so if I ever report anything again I will be more patient .


----------



## Westie Mum

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I know this won't be popular but here goes. I've just been on the dreaded Brexit thread and I really didn't read it like that. I'm not sure its going to achieve anything for the harmony of the forum or the enjoyment of all users if we start following each other around and nit picking at posts in other threads. Does it matter? Is anyone being bullied? Just my opinion of course but not sure I like the way this is going.


I wasn't following anyone, I just read the brexit thread and seen it. I'm also not feeling bullied or anything like that, just utter dismay as this cross thread posting snide comment as it has been discussed here, not just by myself but others too as being one of the issues.

So if we are here to discuss how to make things better, talk openly about the issues and people just carry on doing those things anyway, well what's the point ?


----------



## MollySmith

SusieRainbow said:


> I do think some of these so called 'games' carry quite an undercurrent of snarky references which cause upset. They aren't heavily moderated , maybe should be more so, but surely adults should be able to be trusted to play fair.


You'd hope so really but I think I said ages ago, I moderated for the Open University for a few months and OMG! And they paid to be there and if they got banned it could affect their study and yet still!


----------



## Rafa

We are allowing one person now to derail and inject ill feeling into this thread.

I'll say it again. I think this thread was an excellent idea, @rottiepointerhouse, and I believe it could be very productive going forward.

Let's not yet have another thread closed because one person has an agenda.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> I got the impression that people were pointing out these posts as an example of the things that go on because they feel that a member in this thread is denying it.
> That's not very well explained but I hope you get the point . Another tactic is to continually deny .
> 
> All the points here are our opinions and we have differences of opinions . I thought that was the point of this thread.


Yes the point of the thread is to discuss different views but I don't want it to turn into people going after one member in this thread. Would prefer to see them question it in the relevant thread to be honest but if that is the way people want this thread to go then so be it.



Westie Mum said:


> I wasn't following anyone, I just read the brexit thread and seen it. I'm also not feeling bullied or anything like that, just utter dismay as this cross thread posting snide comment as it has been discussed here, not just by myself but others too as being one of the issues.
> 
> So if we are here to discuss how to make things better, talk openly about the issues and people just carry on doing those things anyway, well what's the point ?


Difficult line to tread though isn't it. Cross thread posting by one results in cross thread posting by others which results in undercurrents and bad atmospheres. Get a couple of people doing it to the same person and it starts to feel uncomfortable. To me anyway


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Rafa said:


> We are allowing one person now to derail and inject ill feeling into this thread.
> 
> I'll say it again. I think this thread was an excellent idea, @rottiepointerhouse, and I believe it could be very productive going forward.
> 
> Let's not yet have another thread closed because one person has an agenda.


You've lost me there I'm afraid. Who has an agenda and why would the thread be closed?


----------



## SusieRainbow

And it's this cross threading that makes modding so challenging ! I feel as though I'm at Wimbledon ! ( rubbing aching neck )


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> You've lost me there I'm afraid. Who has an agenda and why would the thread be closed?


Are we allowed to say ?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

kimthecat said:


> Are we allowed to say ?


You want to name and shame? Surely that is part of what this thread is all about - where will it end? Will I go digging around for misdemeanours other posters have made on recent threads to name and shame them too? Absolutely not. I wanted the thread to be a healing one not the start of another world war.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

SusieRainbow said:


> And it's this cross threading that makes modding so challenging ! I feel as though I'm at Wimbledon ! ( rubbing aching neck )


We should start calling you umpires not mods.


----------



## kimthecat

rottiepointerhouse said:


> You want to name and shame? Surely that is part of what this thread is all about - where will it end? Will I go digging around for misdemeanours other posters have made on recent threads to name and shame them too? Absolutely not. I wanted the thread to be a healing one not the start of another world war.


Eh ? No , I dont actually . You said this < You've lost me there I'm afraid. Who has an agenda and why would the thread be closed? *>
*
You asked who has an agenda . Why are *you * asking if you don't want an answer? BTW we're not allowed to name anyone which was my point

You know, its getting late . perhaps best to leave this until the morning. TBH The threads done and nothing resolved. No change there , then


----------



## SusieRainbow

rottiepointerhouse said:


> We should start calling you umpires not mods.


That's certainly how it feels !
I remember trying to sort out my childrens' squabbles and they both ended up hating me !


----------



## Westie Mum

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Would prefer to see them question it in the relevant thread to be honest


I didn't post on the other thread as I'd be accused of trying to get it closed as I've openly said I don't think political/brexit threads should be on PF and as we had discussed the snide cross posting here, I thought here would be more appropriate - if it wasn't then I apologise.

Anyway, I'm done discussing it as don't want this thread closed either.


----------



## Westie Mum

SusieRainbow said:


> That's certainly how it feels !
> I remember trying to sort out my childrens' squabbles and they both ended up hating me !


Try resolving 4 teenagers squabbles when they were all only a year apart in age 

I should start charging them for my hair dye


----------



## SusieRainbow

kimthecat said:


> Eh ? No , I dont actually . You said this < You've lost me there I'm afraid. Who has an agenda and why would the thread be closed? *>
> 
> YOU * asked who has an agenda . Why are *you * asking if you don't want an answer? BTW we're not allowed to name anyone which was my point
> 
> You know, its getting late . perhaps best to leave this until the morning. TBH The threads done and nothing resolved. No change there , then


I don't think this thread has been a waste of time , but it could be time to walk away and do something else. 
It's been really useful to hear everyones' suggestions as to how the forum can improve and move forward and it's great that you all care enough to want that.


----------



## kimthecat

SusieRainbow said:


> I don't think this thread has been a waste of time , but it could be time to walk away and do something else.


I was just correcting RHP mistake . 

Its good this thread has helped the Mods . I'll look forward to the changes and improvements ,


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

I know this is going back a bit in the thread but I've not been home from work long tonight and I'm doolally...

This:



O2.0 said:


> My friend posted the best thing on FB the other day about people like this. Something along the lines of those who say "I'm just blunt and honest, I call it like I see it" etc., should by averages be blatantly kind and complimentary as well, yet somehow their straight talking honesty doesn't extend to "wow, you're a really awesome person" only to "wow you're really an idiot aren't you." Almost as if the "honesty" badge is just a licence to be an asshat.
> She said it much better than me, but I do find it interesting how these straight talkers never seem to have complimentary outbursts....


I just imagined someone aggressively bellowing at someone else that they like their shoes, and now I keep laughing to myself.


----------



## Jesthar

rottiepointerhouse said:


> We should start calling you umpires not mods.


Fittingly enough, whenever the realties of being a moderator are discussed, this is what springs to mind:


----------



## Sacrechat

Well? Have you mods had your Weetabix?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Sacremist said:


> Well? Have you mods had your Weetabix?


No, but I've had my Horlicks and off to bed ! Goodnight, play nice.


----------



## leashedForLife

QUOTE, havoc:

...
If people want to go off into private discussions there's a perfectly good *private messaging *facility.

_________________
.

Unless, of course, U cannot use it. :Meh
I didn't do a tremendous amount of PMs in the past; I mostly posted on the forum, & occasionally on someone's profile, particularly to thank them for rep, or to announce they'd won a caption contest.

However, although my "ban" has been lifted, I still cannot initiate any PM; I can revive an old thread, an antique PM that I haven't deleted, but I cannot START any new PM from scratch, nor can I post on anyone's profile, except by commenting on my own "old" posts on that particular individual's profile.

I haven't insulted anyone by posting nasty remarks on their profile; I haven't made a habit of stirring trouble by fomenting discontent via PMs. // My year-long ban was - according to someone who should know - instigated by complaints via PMs from just 2 forum-members, when - per PF-uk policy - bans are *supposed to be based *on public posts that transgress forum rules.

So yes, it would be my experience that at least some of the time, moderators or Admin do, indeed, make it up as they go along. // It's also PF-uk policy that anyone who has been banned, cannot become a mod - as in "ever" - but we currently have at least one PF moderator who was previously banned.

The rules are, at the very least, bent beyond recognition, & it does seem they are more than occasionally broken.

I haven't flung stones or epithets at anyone, yet some years ago, I was accused of being both "racist" & religiously bigoted, which was pretty bizarre, as *the U-S Army* was the group providing the poison-bait to kill street dogs, in a country THEY were occupying.  My own countrymen & -women were doing something I believed - & still believe - to be both very cruel, & completely useless as a "solution" for the problem of feral & abandoned dogs.
IIRC, the thread had over 6 pages of posts, at 40 posts per page, when it was removed "to have objectionable posts deleted", but of course, it never reappeared.
(I think that was Spring 2011 - certainly time enough to remove any nasty posts, & re-post the thread as promised.)

My expectations are perforce considerably lower than they were, when I joined PF-uk in 2009. Then, I expected policies to be upheld; now, I expect them to be circumvented, or only sporadically followed, as that's been both my personal experience, & what I've observed over nearly 8 years.
:shrug:

- terry

.


----------



## Cleo38

leashedForLife said:


> QUOTE, havoc:
> 
> ...
> If people want to go off into private discussions there's a perfectly good *private messaging *facility.
> 
> _________________
> .
> 
> Unless, of course, U cannot use it. :Meh
> I didn't do a tremendous amount of PMs in the past; I mostly posted on the forum, & occasionally on someone's profile, particularly to thank them for rep, or to announce they'd won a caption contest.
> 
> However, although my "ban" has been lifted, I still cannot initiate any PM; I can revive an old thread, an antique PM that I haven't deleted, but I cannot START any new PM from scratch, nor can I post on anyone's profile, except by commenting on my own "old" posts on that particular individual's profile.
> 
> I haven't insulted anyone by posting nasty remarks on their profile; I haven't made a habit of stirring trouble by fomenting discontent via PMs. // My year-long ban was - according to someone who should know - instigated by complaints via PMs from just 2 forum-members, when - per PF-uk policy - bans are *supposed to be based *on public posts that transgress forum rules.
> 
> So yes, it would be my experience that at least some of the time, moderators or Admin do, indeed, make it up as they go along. // It's also PF-uk policy that anyone who has been banned, cannot become a mod - as in "ever" - but we currently have at least one PF moderator who was previously banned.
> 
> The rules are, at the very least, bent beyond recognition, & it does seem they are more than occasionally broken.
> 
> I haven't flung stones or epithets at anyone, yet some years ago, I was accused of being both "racist" & religiously bigoted, which was pretty bizarre, as *the U-S Army* was the group providing the poison-bait to kill street dogs, in a country THEY were occupying.  My own countrymen & -women were doing something I believed - & still believe - to be both very cruel, & completely useless as a "solution" for the problem of feral & abandoned dogs.
> IIRC, the thread had over 6 pages of posts, at 40 posts per page, when it was removed "to have objectionable posts deleted", but of course, it never reappeared.
> (I think that was Spring 2011 - certainly time enough to remove any nasty posts, & re-post the thread as promised.)
> 
> My expectations are perforce considerably lower than they were, when I joined PF-uk in 2009. Then, I expected policies to be upheld; now, I expect them to be circumvented, or only sporadically followed, as that's been both my personal experience, & what I've observed over nearly 8 years.
> :shrug:
> 
> - terry
> 
> .


I have no idea exactly what your bans or reprimands were for but considering on one thread you were supporting & championing someone who had shot & killed a much loved pet cat simply because his owner allowed him to be outdoors then you can imagine lots of us members thought that maybe your posts were ill thought out & not quite in keeping with forum rules & members views.

In that instance I can assure you it was more than 2 members who reported you


----------



## MilleD

leashedForLife said:


> _________________
> .
> 
> Unless, of course, U cannot use it. :Meh
> 
> .


What about the quote facility?


----------



## MollySmith

leashedForLife said:


> QUOTE, havoc:
> 
> ...
> If people want to go off into private discussions there's a perfectly good *private messaging *facility.
> 
> _________________
> .
> 
> Unless, of course, U cannot use it. :Meh
> I didn't do a tremendous amount of PMs in the past; I mostly posted on the forum, & occasionally on someone's profile, particularly to thank them for rep, or to announce they'd won a caption contest.
> 
> However, although my "ban" has been lifted, I still cannot initiate any PM; I can revive an old thread, an antique PM that I haven't deleted, but I cannot START any new PM from scratch, nor can I post on anyone's profile, except by commenting on my own "old" posts on that particular individual's profile.
> 
> I haven't insulted anyone by posting nasty remarks on their profile; I haven't made a habit of stirring trouble by fomenting discontent via PMs. // My year-long ban was - according to someone who should know - instigated by complaints via PMs from just 2 forum-members, when - per PF-uk policy - bans are *supposed to be based *on public posts that transgress forum rules.
> 
> So yes, it would be my experience that at least some of the time, moderators or Admin do, indeed, make it up as they go along. // It's also PF-uk policy that anyone who has been banned, cannot become a mod - as in "ever" - but we currently have at least one PF moderator who was previously banned.
> 
> The rules are, at the very least, bent beyond recognition, & it does seem they are more than occasionally broken.
> 
> I haven't flung stones or epithets at anyone, yet some years ago, I was accused of being both "racist" & religiously bigoted, which was pretty bizarre, as *the U-S Army* was the group providing the poison-bait to kill street dogs, in a country THEY were occupying.  My own countrymen & -women were doing something I believed - & still believe - to be both very cruel, & completely useless as a "solution" for the problem of feral & abandoned dogs.
> IIRC, the thread had over 6 pages of posts, at 40 posts per page, when it was removed "to have objectionable posts deleted", but of course, it never reappeared.
> (I think that was Spring 2011 - certainly time enough to remove any nasty posts, & re-post the thread as promised.)
> 
> My expectations are perforce considerably lower than they were, when I joined PF-uk in 2009. Then, I expected policies to be upheld; now, I expect them to be circumvented, or only sporadically followed, as that's been both my personal experience, & what I've observed over nearly 8 years.
> :shrug:
> 
> - terry
> 
> .


I appreciate you must have your frustrations with PF. Why you were banned is a matter for you and the mods to resolve in view of complaints or worries from others. It is reasonable to assume that people would appreciate that mods have lives outside PF and we have to exercise self moderation and think before posting. Even more so if warning and bans have been given as I'm sure the reasons are evidenced. Discussing all that in public is a rule break and for a good reason, as I'm sure this will now lead to the thread being closed and that's very disappointing.


----------



## Cleo38

Sorry, if my comment is not appropriate then I will delete it. I only wanted to point out that there were incidents leading up to L4L's ban that she may have forgotten about but did upset a lot of people on here.


----------



## lymorelynn

Abuse via the pm system is as likely to be the reason for incurring a ban as posting such kind of comments on open forum.
@leashedForLife your current inability to use pms is nothing to do with any previous ban. I will look at your settings. 
It is also disingenuous of you to cite a complaint by pm as the reason for your ban. That was not the case but I will not go into it here. I will message you as soon as I have a moment


----------



## Elles

Oh wow.


----------



## StormyThai

L4L...you might want to get your facts right...I left and asked for my previous account to be deleted, I wasn't banned...

But thank you for confirming that you have an issue with me...Until now it was just a suspicion!
As @lymorelynn is dealing with this in Pm I will leave it there...


----------



## Magyarmum

lymorelynn said:


> Abuse via
> the pm system is as likely to be the reason for incurring a ban as posting such kind of comments on open forum.
> @leashedForLife your current inability to use pms is nothing to do with any previous ban. I will look at your settings.
> 
> It is also disingenuous of you to cite a complaint by pm as the reason for your ban. That was not the case but I will not go into it here. I will message you as soon as I have a moment


I hope you won't mind my asking a question related to L4L's inability to use PM's and how it affects other members?

Prior to her being banned L4L and I PM'd each other maybe no more than 4 or 5 times over subjects not under discussion of the forum. If I remember rightly one was about living in Hungary with dogs and the other Shar-pei. I also sent a brief PM welcoming her back to the forum.

All the correspondence was totally innocuous!

The other day wishing to PM L4L over a query I have with Shar-Pei I find that all our PM's have been deleted. Now, rightly or wrongly I'm rather cross that someone has apparently read our PM's which I thought were private and deleted them without informing me

Am I being over sensitive or is this normal policy that "innocent" PF members are penalised for the "sins" of others?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Magyarmum said:


> I hope you won't mind my asking a question related to L4L's inability to use PM's and how it affects other members?
> 
> Prior to her being banned L4L and I PM'd each other maybe no more than 4 or 5 times over subjects not under discussion of the forum. If I remember rightly one was about living in Hungary with dogs and the other Shar-pei. I also sent a brief PM welcoming her back to the forum.
> 
> All the correspondence was totally innocuous!
> 
> The other day wishing to PM L4L over a query I have with Shar-Pei I find that all our PM's have been deleted. Now, rightly or wrongly I'm rather cross that someone has apparently read our PM's which I thought were private and deleted them without informing me
> 
> Am I being over sensitive or is this normal policy that "innocent" PF members are penalised for the "sins" of others?


We don't have access to PMs and removal was certainly not punitive. I don't know where or why they've gone, but there is a limit you can store in your inbox. It would be nothing to do with the mods, more to do with the system.


----------



## westie~ma

@leashedForLife I pm'd Mark last night after you reminded me that I'd overlooked this problem. I did look on the admin screen when you first pm'd me but couldn't see anything out of place, I did fail to tell you this, for that I apologise.

I am quite shocked at the tone of your post that the mods and pf are one step away from corrupt in our processes. If your post was meant to be hurtful then good job. Me? I've taken this attack very personally, having my integrity questioned like this after years of first being a member and then a mod here is incredibly upsetting to me.

There we are, moving on ... I'll let you know what Mark comes back with.


----------



## Magyarmum

SusieRainbow said:


> We don't have access to PMs and removal was certainly not punitive. I don't know where or why they've gone, but there is a limit you can store in your inbox. It would be nothing to do with the mods, more to do with the system.


Thank you Susie.

It can't be my inbox because over the past 3 years I've only received 26 PM's including 2 from L4L and one from someone who closed their a/c which has also been deleted.

And as I've only received or sent 36 PM's in all since April 2015 I'm assuming there's something wrong with the system!


----------



## Gemmaa

I'm a bit confused why people use a forum that annoys them or they think uses underhand tactics.

In real life I'm getting fed up with a cashier in a local shop, as they're taking a little bit too much interest in me and making me feel uncomfortable. 
The simple solution is I'm just not going to go into that branch for a while, or I'll go when that person is not likely to be working.
I'm not going to keep using a shop that causes me annoyance/stress.

There are many other forums out there if people feel this one is a bit dodgy, or they're annoyed that they can't be overly political on a pet forum.
It just leads to a passive-aggressive vibe on the place, and it's not pleasant for anyone.

Maybe the disgruntled few could start their own political-pet forum, with no rules :Joyful


----------



## SusieRainbow

Gemmaa said:


> I'm a bit confused why people use a forum that annoys them or they think uses underhand tactics.
> 
> In real life I'm getting fed up with a cashier in a local shop, as they're taking a little bit too much interest in me and making me feel uncomfortable.
> The simple solution is I'm just not going to go into that branch for a while, or I'll go when that person is not likely to be working.
> I'm not going to keep using a shop that causes me annoyance/stress.
> 
> There are many other forums out there if people feel this one is a bit dodgy, or they're annoyed that they can't be overly political on a pet forum.
> It just leads to a passive-aggressive vibe on the place, and it's not pleasant for anyone.
> 
> Maybe the disgruntled few could start their own political-pet forum, with no rules :Joyful


Excellent post, I'm thinking the same myself.


----------



## O2.0

Gemmaa said:


> I'm a bit confused why people use a forum that annoys them or they think uses underhand tactics.


I'm finding this baffling as well. 
I got to the point that I was finding the form less enjoyable than enjoyable so I left. The world kept turning, nothing happened, and I went on with my life. It was fine.

So I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would frequent a forum they seem to find so unpleasant?

Nope, mods aren't perfect, I've had my issues there, but at the end of the day we have to accept that this forum IS moderated and we have to accept moderation decisions, and continually bitching about them, either directly or indirectly makes for a very unsettled vibe.

Anyway, I think we've hit the end here. The only way change will happen is if all of us are willing to recognize our own behavior and endeavor to change it (with human slip-ups of course). But if we can't even acknowledge our own behavior or take responsibility for it... Yeah, I don't know what to do with that.

Is now a good time to mention avocado toast?


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

O2.0 said:


> Is now a good time to mention avocado toast?


Ugh, I'm such a crap millennial. I don't like avocado!

I like marmalade on my breakfast toast. Or eggs.

This morning I'm ashamed to say this is my breakfast... in my defence, it's my first meal since the weekend and it's better than nowt.


----------



## Jesthar

2011. _Seriously?_










_


O2.0 said:



Is now a good time to mention avocado toast?

Click to expand...

_Is there EVER a good time to mention avacado toast? :Yuck


----------



## SusieRainbow

O2.0 said:


> I'm finding this baffling as well.
> I got to the point that I was finding the form less enjoyable than enjoyable so I left. The world kept turning, nothing happened, and I went on with my life. It was fine.
> 
> So I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would frequent a forum they seem to find so unpleasant?
> 
> Nope, mods aren't perfect, I've had my issues there, but at the end of the day we have to accept that this forum IS moderated and we have to accept moderation decisions, and continually bitching about them, either directly or indirectly makes for a very unsettled vibe.
> 
> Anyway, I think we've hit the end here. The only way change will happen is if all of us are willing to recognize our own behavior and endeavor to change it (with human slip-ups of course). But if we can't even acknowledge our own behavior or take responsibility for it... Yeah, I don't know what to do with that.
> 
> Is now a good time to mention avocado toast?


None of us claim to be perfect , but we do our best, in our own time , in an attemot to keep the forum running smoothly. This obviously involves making some unpopular decisions but we can't please everyone.
On the very rare occasions that we DO get a at on the back it is highly appreciated, because people find it much easier to criticise than praise.
I had hoped this thread would increase understanding between the mod team and fellow members - for a time it did seem to. 
I've actually reached 5th place in the top poster table such has been my input here. Unheard of!
But it seems to have had little of the desired effect. 
I won't be posting on here again.
( Avocado toast sounds rather yummy though )


----------



## JANICE199

Gemmaa said:


> I'm a bit confused why people use a forum that annoys them or they think uses underhand tactics.
> 
> In real life I'm getting fed up with a cashier in a local shop, as they're taking a little bit too much interest in me and making me feel uncomfortable.
> The simple solution is I'm just not going to go into that branch for a while, or I'll go when that person is not likely to be working.
> I'm not going to keep using a shop that causes me annoyance/stress.
> 
> There are many other forums out there if people feel this one is a bit dodgy, or they're annoyed that they can't be overly political on a pet forum.
> It just leads to a passive-aggressive vibe on the place, and it's not pleasant for anyone.
> 
> Maybe the disgruntled few could start their own political-pet forum, with no rules :Joyful


*If we as members don't try and iron out our differences how do we go forward? As for me personally, this is the only forum i have ever used and i have spent many hours on here over the years. That has to say something. *


----------



## lymorelynn

I'll have my avocado without the toast please.
I wish I knew what made people tick - I'm sure there's a fortune to made there somewhere 
To misquote Abraham Lincoln: You can please some people some of the time. You can please all of the people people some of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time.
We're doing our best to please most of the people most of the time


----------



## Siskin

And I’ll have the toast without the avocado


----------



## Westie Mum

Well the thread made 40 pages and its still not closed so thats something!

I do feel very deflated this morning. I had hoped that by getting together and being open we could actually get somewhere but i dont think we have. The mods are feeling attacked and the members causing the issues are carrying on as usual .... which is a shame.

@Rafa im not sure if your post was aimed at me or not tbh, but i honestly had no hidden agenda and have explained the reason i posted what i did (just to clarify)

I appreciate the mods have a hugely difficult job in seperating childish squables between something more serious. I for one have never had any issues with any of the moderating team. Although i do recal @LinznMilly edited one of my posts a long time ago and at the time i didnt understand why. I gave myself a few days off and realised it really wasnt anything to get upset about and @LinznMilly was just calming the thread down and doing her job and im sure she doesn't even remember as it really was so insignificant really :Shamefullyembarrased

Anyway, if anyone can come up with some really good positive changes on how we can make the forum a nicer place then i would be interested to hear them. Other than that i dont really think i have anything else to contribute and I dont like avocado on anything :Vomit


----------



## O2.0

You avocado haters..... :Mooning



Ceiling Kitty said:


> in my defence, it's my first meal since the weekend and it's better than nowt.


You haven't eaten for 3 days?!! On purpose? Are you okay?!
And god woman, put the mcD down! For the love of all that is holy! :Wtf:Yuck


----------



## O2.0

SusieRainbow said:


> I won't be posting on here again.


That's a shame, I found it helpful to hear the moderation side of things. Though I understand you guys are feeling low, please know that it's not a majority of the forum who is unhappy with moderation.


----------



## O2.0

I'm just going to set this here.
'Cause it's goats - head butting goats that have to wear pool noodles. 
And it made me laugh out loud. 
This thread needs a goat - an annoying goat that won't stop head butting so he has to wear pool noodles.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

I feel deflated with it too now but hopefully we have all had an opportunity to say what we think and think about our own behaviours too. You never know things may improve and if they don't we can't say we didn't try. Thank you to the mods for their time, patience and contributions to the thread.


----------



## Rafa

Westie Mum said:


> im not sure if your post was aimed at me or not tbh, but i honestly had no hidden agenda and have explained the reason i posted what i did (just to clarify)


Definitely not you.


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> I'm just going to set this here.
> 'Cause it's goats - head butting goats that have to wear pool noodles.
> And it made me laugh out loud.
> This thread needs a goat - an annoying goat that won't stop head butting so he has to wear pool noodles.


:Hilarious I nearly choked on my Marmite sandwich when I saw this . !


----------



## Jesthar

SusieRainbow said:


> I had hoped this thread would increase understanding between the mod team and fellow members - for a time it did seem to.
> I've actually reached 5th place in the top poster table such has been my input here. Unheard of!
> But it seems to have had little of the desired effect.





Westie Mum said:


> Well the thread made 40 pages and its still not closed so thats something!
> 
> I do feel very deflated this morning. I had hoped that by getting together and being open we could actually get somewhere but i dont think we have. The mods are feeling attacked and the members causing the issues are carrying on as usual .... which is a shame.





rottiepointerhouse said:


> I feel deflated with it too now but hopefully we have all had an opportunity to say what we think and think about our own behaviours too. You never know things may improve and if they don't we can't say we didn't try. Thank you to the mods for their time, patience and contributions to the thread.


Change takes time, particularly ingrained behavioural change. We know this - we have pets! And the human animal is no different. Discussions like these do help, even if few acknowledge it, as few outside of the moderators know the processes involved in moderation and appreciate the sheer amount of work involved without threads like this.

Perhaps I can give a little external perspective here. I'm a Sys Admin in real life, and my system has around three thousand users on it - they are mandated to use it, but that doesn't mean they want to.  The majority of the time, I only get contacted for three reasons:

Something is broken (or doesn't work how the user thinks it should)

Someone doesn't know how to do something (often 'didn't read the manual' related...  )

Someone wants me to do something
I'm quite fortunate, in that most people are polite and say thank you - but, then again, I've been doing this for well over a decade and most of them know me. However, there are a very small percentage point of users who, for whatever reason, can't/wont play nicely. Recent examples include one lying outright to senior managers about permissions me and my boss told her she could have (or NOT have, as the case actually was), and a manager who is trying to insist that after we had a few post implementation issues with a major upgrade the testing regime I have is not good enough (despite the fact no testing would have caught them) and I should be testing in the way that she does on her piddly little database with a handful of users. Never mind my 9 lever arch files full of test scripts refined by years of experience, then, or that the software company uses my scripts as an example to new customers of how testing should be done, I'm obviously not a good enough tester. Yes, that one hurt.

There is, however, a flip side to the coin. I also have users who didn't like they system at all at first, and gave me a real hard time, but now with time and patience (and a good deal of toungue biting on occasion!) are now enthusiastic users. Sometimes that change has been swift,sometimes it has taken years and constant help/assistance from others as well to attain. Mainly it has taken time; reshaping ingrained behaviours usually does (and I say this as someone who doesn't like change herself). Plus the majority of users just get on with it and I irarely/never hear from them.

The thing is, it can be very easy to get dragged down by a few negative nancies and forget how most regard their experience of you as positive. I have a fabulous book a friend sent me when I was having a hard time called "The Art Of Being Brilliant" - basically, practical positive psychology. One of the real world examples the two authors gave is that one of them ran a course, and all the feedback forms rated it as 'excellent' - apart from one. And it was that one less than excellent review that the author started dwelling on and fretting about, rather than that the overwhelming rating was 'excellent.' It's so easy to do...

Anyway, having been on several forums over the years (and a mod/Admin on some), I KNOW the mods here do a sterling job and deserve our appreciation and respect. So, thank you mods!


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> I'm just going to set this here.
> 'Cause it's goats - head butting goats that have to wear pool noodles.
> And it made me laugh out loud.
> This thread needs a goat - an annoying goat that won't stop head butting so he has to wear pool noodles.


Surely that goat isn't butting things. Look at it's innocent little face!!

And I just have one thing to say about avocados :Vomit


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> Is there EVER a good time to mention avacado toast? :Yuck





Siskin said:


> And I'll have the toast without the avocado





MilleD said:


> And I just have one thing to say about avocados :Vomit


What is with all the avocado hate? You avocado haters just don't know the facts  That avocado is awesome! 
Granted you are in a strange country that doesn't grow anything tropical so you probably have issues with fresh pineapple and mangos too


----------



## leashedForLife

.

@StormyThai ,
I do *not* "have an issue" with U, personally - not as a mod, nor as a PF member, nor as a poster in multiple threads.

& @westie~ma , U have been helpful & informative whenever i've asked for help, in the past & recently - please do not think I am accusing U of any wickedness, I do not know who was responsible for my ban on repeated requests from 2 individuals, but I would bet my life it wasn't U. I doubt very much if U were aware of how & why I was banned - it was just another event, on a busy forum.
Moreover, as the *only *mod that I could contact without using the "report" button on a random post, U were put on the spot unexpectedly, & U've been very kind, supportive, & professional - I thank U, & I sincerely appreciate Ur efforts.

Forgetting to ask about my continued inability to initiate PMs or to post on profiles was never intentional, on Ur part - it was just being human; we all forget things we meant to do. 

I could contact *Westie-ma *only because I already had an undeleted old PM convo with her, & I asked if she could explain or resolve the "No-new-PMs / No profile-posts" continuing issue; I could not, & so far as I know, still cannot, send a PM to any other mod, nor can I post to any mod's profile & ask for help, & contacting "anyone on duty" via the report function would be a misuse of the report button.

- terry

.


----------



## Boxerluver30

@O2.0 I like avocado . Never had it on toast though!


----------



## O2.0

I don't know much, but I'm willing to bet good money that forum members can't request a member be banned. If that were the case, I'm sure many of us would have spoken up in several instances! 

Just because a member complains about you or reports you doesn't mean you will be banned. 

And I really do think individual situations should be discussed off this thread pretty please?


----------



## O2.0

Boxerluver30 said:


> @O2.0 I like avocado . Never had it on toast though!


I knew there was something I liked about you!


----------



## Sacrechat

O2.0 said:


> What is with all the avocado hate? You avocado haters just don't know the facts  That avocado is awesome!
> Granted you are in a strange country that doesn't grow anything tropical so you probably have issues with fresh pineapple and mangos too


I've never had avocado on toast but I'm willing to try it. I like avocados and have eaten them with prawns, I love the texture of avocado.


----------



## lymorelynn

leashedForLife said:


> .
> 
> @StormyThai ,
> I do *not* "have an issue" with U, personally - not as a mod, nor as a PF member, nor as a poster in multiple threads.
> 
> & @westie~ma , U have been helpful & informative whenever i've asked for help, in the past & recently - please do not think I am accusing U of any wickedness, I do not know who was responsible for my ban on repeated requests from 2 individuals, but I would bet my life it wasn't U. I doubt very much if U were aware of how & why I was banned - it was just another event, on a busy forum.
> Moreover, as the *only *mod that I could contact without using the "report" button on a random post, U were put on the spot unexpectedly, & U've been very kind, supportive, & professional - I thank U, & I sincerely appreciate Ur efforts.
> 
> Forgetting to ask about my continued inability to initiate PMs or to post on profiles was never intentional, on Ur part - it was just being human; we all forget things we meant to do.
> 
> I could contact *Westie-ma *only because I already had an undeleted old PM convo with her, & I asked if she could explain or resolve the "No-new-PMs / No profile-posts" continuing issue; I could not, & so far as I know, still cannot, send a PM to any other mod, nor can I post to any mod's profile & ask for help, & contacting "anyone on duty" via the report function would be a misuse of the report button.
> 
> - terry
> 
> .


I have messaged you about this. I hope you are able to read it. But I will state publicly that you were *not* banned on requests from any individual members. Banning is never 'just an event on a busy forum' (the exception to that being the removal of spammers)
We - there is more than one mod involved in most things - have checked your settings and have found no cause for your inability to initiate conversations but will keep trying to get it fixed


----------



## kimthecat

Boxerluver30 said:


> @O2.0 I like avocado . Never had it on toast though!


I have an aversion to the colour of them . It reminds me of the avocado 70's bathroom suites.


----------



## O2.0

kimthecat said:


> I have an aversion to the colour of them . It reminds me of the avocado 70's bathroom suites.
> View attachment 365614


Ew! If you're eating avocados that are that color, no wonder you don't like 'em! :Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## stuaz

I might not have had marmite, but I do like avocados on toast!


----------



## Boxerluver30

kimthecat said:


> I have an aversion to the colour of them . It reminds me of the avocado 70's bathroom suites.
> View attachment 365614


That colour is :Wtf


----------



## MollySmith

Avocados yum, toast yum. Together nope, I’m not hipster enough!


----------



## O2.0

Well, truth be told, I actually prefer avocado on top of black beans and rice, with some salsa *drool* but I figured it was morning and I'd go with a more breakfast-y theme  
Plus then you can debate if the avocado should be sliced or mashed or sliced and slightly mashed - oh the possibilities!


----------



## Siskin

Sacremist said:


> I've never had avocado on toast but I'm willing to try it. I like avocados and have eaten them with prawns, I love the texture of avocado.


It's the texture that puts me off them

@O2.0 ill have you know that I adore pineapple and manages and a whole load of other stuff that doesn't grow here including peanuts.
Ever had needs and tatties?


----------



## O2.0

Siskin said:


> Ever had needs and tatties?


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
Oh god, that sounds like either an STD or a very personal question! I'm scared to answer! :Bag:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

O2.0 said:


> Ew! If you're eating avocados that are that color, no wonder you don't like 'em! :Hilarious:Hilarious





kimthecat said:


> I have an aversion to the colour of them . It reminds me of the avocado 70's bathroom suites.
> View attachment 365614


When we moved into our house there was an avocado bathroom. If we could have afforded it we would have replaced it immediately. We had to live with it for two years until I cunningly broke the sink. Oops


----------



## Siskin

D


O2.0 said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
> Oh god, that sounds like either an STD or a very personal question! I'm scared to answer! :Bag:Hilarious:Hilarious


Don't worry, it's edible and I quite like it. Something to do with my Scottish ancestry, anyway it won't kill you


----------



## kimthecat

O2.0 said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
> Oh god, that sounds like either an STD or a very personal question! I'm scared to answer! :Bag:Hilarious:Hilarious


:Hilarious  I think Siskin meant neeps and tatties which are eaten with Haggis ! :Vomit


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> I think Siskin meant neeps and tatties which is eaten with Haggis ! :Vomit


I did! Just looked back at my post which I typed without my glasses on, serves me right.

Just got back from walking on the beach with Isla, it's so flipping hot here at the moment and I'm sat here literally dripping and mopping my poor sweaty face, hence no glasses


----------



## O2.0

Ew Haggis! Even if I weren't vegan I wouldn't touch the stuff! Smells like the offal my mom used to cook for the dogs when we were kids and stunk up the whole house :Yuck

Yes, but @Siskin it's much funnier without the glasses


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Ew Haggis! Even if I weren't vegan I wouldn't touch the stuff! Smells like the offal my mom used to cook for the dogs when we were kids and stunk up the whole house :Yuck
> 
> Yes, but @Siskin it's much funnier without the glasses


My DIL's family who all come from Scotland eat vegan haggis which apparently is quite edible!


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> apparently is quite edible!


I'll take your word for it. Have zero desire to try it for myself LOL!


----------



## Siskin

O2.0 said:


> Ew Haggis! Even if I weren't vegan I wouldn't touch the stuff! Smells like the offal my mom used to cook for the dogs when we were kids and stunk up the whole house :Yuck
> 
> Yes, but @Siskin it's much funnier without the glasses


It is, even better if I had typed nerds instead.

Like the neeps and tatties especially if mashed together and a lump of butter on top, but not the haggis. Will consign that to my own personal food room 101 bin ( oh, there seems to be rather a lot in it already)


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> My DIL's family who all come from Scotland eat vegan haggis which apparently is quite edible!


What's in it, might suit me better so long as it's not spicy


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> What's in it, might suit me better so long as it's not spicy


I've no idea 'cos I've never tried it, but here's a recipe if you want to make your own

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/vegan-haggis

or you can buy one ready made

https://www.haggisuk.co.uk/stahlys-vegetarian-haggis


----------



## kimthecat

Siskin said:


> It is, even better if I had typed nerds instead.


:Hilarious yeah . i was going to tell you of the needs I have but they're not suitable for a family forum


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

@O2.0

First meal, not food!

I don't combine work with food very well, and tend to exist on snacks. I've just done two fourteen-hour days with 10pm finishes so not even inclined to eat properly in the evening like I usually do.

It's seriously bad and I know I need to address it. I just haven't managed it yet.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

kimthecat said:


> I have an aversion to the colour of them . It reminds me of the avocado 70's bathroom suites.
> View attachment 365614


My dad's 70s/80s bathroom was pink before he ripped it all out and replaced with white!

My grandparents' bathroom suite when I was growing up was a mushroom colour.


----------



## Jesthar

Mmm, haggis!  (quarter Scot, here). Delicious! :Happy

Best freshly shot at the height of Haggis season, of course


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

Ceiling Kitty said:


> My grandparents' bathroom suite when I was growing up was a mushroom colour.


Mushrooms? Did someone say mushrooms. Now they are nice on toast .

J


----------



## Jesthar

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> Mushrooms? Did someone say mushrooms. Now they are nice on toast .


I had a cheese stuffed baked Portobello mushroom for tea last night, delicious!


----------



## Cleo38

kimthecat said:


> I have an aversion to the colour of them . It reminds me of the avocado 70's bathroom suites.
> View attachment 365614





Siskin said:


> When we moved into our house there was an avocado bathroom. If we could have afforded it we would have replaced it immediately. We had to live with it for two years until I cunningly broke the sink. Oops


I love 70's avocado bathroom suites ... & the peach ones! I would have one now if I could afford to have my boring white one replaced


----------



## Sacrechat

Cleo38 said:


> I love 70's avocado bathroom suites ... & the peach ones! I would have one now if I could afford to have my boring white one replaced


We had a peach bathroom when first married and my mums bathroom was pink. Our neighbour had that vile avocado colour. I'll never understand how anyone could have chosen that colour.


----------



## stockwellcat.

I got a notification when I logged in. Tutt tutt @kimthecat. I am not getting involved in that thread. Thank's for trying to tempt me.  It didn't work. Please unquote me from that post on the B thread. Thanks 










Sticking to my promise


----------



## Cleo38

Sacremist said:


> We had a peach bathroom when first married and my mums bathroom was pink. Our neighbour had that vile avocado colour. I'll never understand how anyone could have chosen that colour.


Wow, I'll bet the pink looked lovely .... & I am being serious. I love all those colours & hate the 'tasteful' white stuff


----------



## kimthecat

Cleo38 said:


> I love 70's avocado bathroom suites ... & the peach ones! I would have one now if I could afford to have my boring white one replaced


peach sounds nice. It would go with my magnolia walls .


----------



## kimthecat

stockwellcat. said:


> I got a notification when I logged in. Tutt tutt @kimthecat. I am not getting involved in that thread. Thank's for trying to tempt me.  It didn't work. Please unquote me from that post on the B thread. Thanks
> 
> View attachment 365623
> 
> 
> Sticking to my promise


 Im innocent ! I dont know how that happened. I must have had a brain fart !


----------



## Siskin

kimthecat said:


> :Hilarious yeah . i was going to tell you of the needs I have but they're not suitable for a family forum


Whattttt. Is that another word used as some weird slang somewhere?


----------



## stockwellcat.

kimthecat said:


> Im innocent ! I dont know how that happened. I must have had a brain fart !


:Hilarious


----------



## Cleo38

kimthecat said:


> peach sounds nice. It would go with my magnolia walls .


Ooh, magnolia painted wood chip wallpaper was the backdrop to my 70's childhood


----------



## kimthecat

Cleo38 said:


> Ooh, magnolia painted wood chip wallpaper was the backdrop to my 70's childhood


Erm It has a leaf pattern . Its very nice. :Happy :Hilarious


----------



## Siskin

Cleo38 said:


> Wow, I'll bet the pink looked lovely .... & I am being serious. I love all those colours & hate the 'tasteful' white stuff


If only you and said, you could have had this you that we chucked out last year


----------



## Siskin

Magyarmum said:


> I've no idea 'cos I've never tried it, but here's a recipe if you want to make your own
> 
> https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/vegan-haggis
> 
> or you can buy one ready made
> 
> https://www.haggisuk.co.uk/stahlys-vegetarian-haggis


The recipe sounds really nice, I'm not a veggie but eat very little meat these days, can't leave bacon alone though. Eat loads of fish


----------



## Boxerluver30

I can't eat any kind of Offal, even the smell of it makes me gag :Vomit. So haggis is a big no no for me. Sounds like me and @O2.0 have similar taste, I'm finding myself looking at some of the food ideas she puts on here thinking mmm that sounds nice :Hungry. Ooh what I have tried avocado with is hummous and that was surprisingly nice along with carrots and hummous of course (one of my fave snacks). I like how we just keep derailing to talk about food :Hilarious


----------



## leashedForLife

.

Peach... *peaches *are in season, I got both yellow & white varieties at the farmers' market on Sunday. 

Also attended the India Day fest at City Hall Plaza, ate yummy stuff, attended a tomato contest (& won a T-shirt there from Stillman Farms.  Spruce green, with a deep red heirloom tomato & the farm's name.)

I can get used to having weekends off - haven't had a weekdays-only schedule since Nov-2012, & I worked 6 days a week with my only day-off being Thursday, from Sept 26, 2015, until Oct 3, 2017, when my longtime client died. 
Never missed a day, never called off, & rarely late, all that while.

"Weekends off " is quite a nice novel concept. 
I think i'll have a peach after lunch - mmmm...

- terry

.


----------



## leashedForLife

.

LymoreLynn adjusted my profile settings, thanks for that - 
I posted to one profile, as a test, & it worked, plus I now have a "start new convo" button that wasn't visible, before. 

Thank U kindly, @lymorelynn .
- terry

.


----------



## Sacrechat

Cleo38 said:


> Wow, I'll bet the pink looked lovely .... & I am being serious. I love all those colours & hate the 'tasteful' white stuff


Back in the day, yes, I think it did look lovely, of course, it was fashionable back then to have coloured bathroom suites. The shell bathrooms were fashionable too.


----------



## havoc

Sacremist said:


> The shell bathrooms were fashionable too.


Now they were truly an offence against style


----------



## Guest

leashedForLife said:


> .
> 
> LymoreLynn adjusted my profile settings, thanks for that -
> I posted to one profile, as a test, & it worked, plus I now have a "start new convo" button that wasn't visible, before.
> 
> Thank U kindly, @lymorelynn .
> - terry
> 
> .


As you find your Pm and the @ function ( only to mods though..)
I think it's time U use the qouting function as well.


----------



## MontyMaude

My Nan had a turquoise bathroom suite and teamed it with the tasteful wallpaper that she saved long and hard for that was swans on a lake it was all shimmery and so 70's even though it was the mid eighties


----------



## leashedForLife

.

My aunt & uncle, in their home on Old Lincoln Highway in Philthy, had bathroom wallpaper that included creamy-white swans & pale pink water lilies, on a light blue “lake” with narrow silvery wavelets.
I loved it, as a kid. 


.


----------



## Magyarmum

We once bought a house which had a black bathroom suit. 

OMG what a nightmare to keep clean because every speck of dust or finger mark showed up


----------



## Rafa

In the 1970s, I had a yellow suite, then a pink one in the 1980s.


----------



## SusieRainbow

My auntie had a burgundy one complete with bidet. The hard-water scale marked it terribly, it never looked like it should.


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> We once bought a house which had a black bathroom suit.
> 
> OMG what a nightmare to keep clean because every speck of dust or finger mark showed up


I hate the black stuff ,so depressing . Its seems to be fashionable now with kitchens, work tops and tiles etc .


----------



## Sacrechat

I can’t keep up. First black was the new cream and now grey is the new cream. When John Major was in power, they called him the grey man. I always thought that meant he was without personality, so not sure how grey has suddenly become fashionable. All I know is that I detest it.


----------



## Cleo38

SusieRainbow said:


> My auntie had a burgundy one complete with bidet. The hard-water scale marked it terribly, it never looked like it should.


Bidets seemed to be fashionable for a while back in the day. I think some people thought they were a cut above the rest of us peasants by having them .... well, the neighbours we had seemed to think so! .....


----------



## kimthecat

Sacremist said:


> I can't keep up. First black was the new cream and now grey is the new cream. When John Major was in power, they called him the grey man. I always thought that meant he was without personality, so not sure how grey has suddenly become fashionable. All I know is that I detest it.


Strange how fashions change .
Light greys not too bad . In only saying that because Ive just bought a new bed and it's light grey .  It was in sale otherwise I would have gone for a pale blue one !


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

This thread has slowed down. Maybe all that can be said has been said; I hope it's achieved its purpose.

Amazing to think it appears to be ending with bathroom colours and bidets. :Hilarious


----------



## lorilu

Don't forget the toast.


----------



## Gemmaa

I'm not sure I can be part of a forum that condones coloured bathroom suites...


----------



## Cleo38

You wouldn't want this???


----------



## lorilu

Cleo38 said:


> You wouldn't want this???
> View attachment 365718


Oh man, imagine waking up to that every morning <shudder>


----------



## Gemmaa

Cleo38 said:


> You wouldn't want this???
> View attachment 365718


Ahh! 
Imagine the amount of accidents in there, because people couldn't find the toilet :Hilarious


----------



## SusieRainbow

Ceiling Kitty said:


> This thread has slowed down. Maybe all that can be said has been said; I hope it's achieved its purpose.
> 
> Amazing to think it appears to be ending with bathroom colours and bidets. :Hilarious


We always get down to bottom of the issue eventually !
Regarding the original purpose of the thread I think a lot of air has been cleared, obviously we can't work magic but have some ideas to help the forum flow better.


----------



## Cleo38

Gemmaa said:


> Ahh!
> Imagine the amount of accidents in there, because people couldn't find the toilet :Hilarious


This is almost identical to nthe bathroom my nan had in the 70's. I used to spend ages in there .... probably overwhelmed by all the patterns!!!  :Chicken


----------



## Sacrechat

I wonder if any homes still have these coloured bathroom suites or has everyone changed them to white.


----------



## delca1

My MIL has a primrose yellow bathroom suite with green and yellow wall tiles - floor to ceiling!


----------



## Nettles

Sacremist said:


> I wonder if any homes still have these coloured bathroom suites or has everyone changed them to white.


Up until she passed away a few months ago, my mum had a horrible pale greenish grey bathroom suite. She even had a matching knitted lady toilet roll cosy thing at one stage :Hungover


----------



## Nettles

The coloured bathroom suites were never as horrific as these old things! :Hungover


----------



## kimthecat

Nettles said:


> Up until she passed away a few months ago, my mum had a horrible pale greenish grey bathroom suite. She even had a matching knitted lady toilet roll cosy thing at one stage :Hungover


Aw bless, you must miss her.
That made me smile about the knitted lady toilet roll cover. I think of them every time I see a big fat gypsy wedding .


----------



## Sacrechat

Nettles said:


> The coloured bathroom suites were never as horrific as these old things! :Hungover
> 
> View attachment 365729


Wow! Only £9 too. What a bargain. I must have one.


----------



## Nettles

kimthecat said:


> Aw bless, you must miss her.
> That made me smile about the knitted lady toilet roll cover. I think of them every time I see a big fat gypsy wedding .


I do, I miss her like crazy  But she's in a better place now... and she can have as many ugly knitted toilet roll covers as she likes without us binning them on her :Smuggrin

LOL I actually thought the second photo was another knitted lady at first glance


----------



## Nettles

Sacremist said:


> Wow! Only £9 too. What a bargain. I must have one.


Just one? I've ordered all four colours


----------



## Jesthar

Nettles said:


> The coloured bathroom suites were never as horrific as these old things! :Hungover
> 
> View attachment 365729


Mum and I have a silly game we play whenever we go clothes shopping called "Guess what's going to be in the sale" (or "Guess why that is IN the sale" - aka 'What were they SMOKING when they made THAT?!?').

Whilst not clothing, those would definitely have have qualified on both counts! :Vomit


----------



## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Aw bless, you must miss her.
> That made me smile about the knitted lady toilet roll cover. I think of them every time I see a big fat gypsy wedding .


Ugh! Those wedding dresses are just ..... no words!


----------



## MontyMaude

Digressing slightly from bathrooms but our whole house in the late 70's into the 80's was just a swirling mass of browns and oranges with accents of yellow, none of this sleek personality free plain white/grey boxes that seem to be the in thing now, not that I would want to live in either but it was all a bit more individual in the past when everything was colourful, but our carpet was patterned squares that contained circles made up of dots and it was browns and orange and our Tortoiseshell cat perfectly camouflaged into the carpet and would often be accidentally kicked because she matched so well, getting back to bathroom my friend had a burgundy bathroom suite with gold taps, I was so impressed/jealous as we had only ever had plain boring white.


----------



## MilleD

kimthecat said:


> That made me smile about the knitted lady toilet roll cover. I think of them every time I see a big fat gypsy wedding .


My Nan ALWAYS had her spare roll under a lady's skirt.

She also had a toilet in one room and the sink and bath in another, it never even struck us how unhygienic it was!

AND, she had a sign over the loo roll holder that said (and this is impressive because I haven't seen it for over 30 years):

Ladies use the seat
This is your treat,
But gentlemen if late
Please do aim straight.


----------



## PawsOnMe

MilleD said:


> My Nan ALWAYS had her spare roll under a lady's skirt.
> 
> *She also had a toilet in one room and the sink and bath in another, it never even struck us how unhygienic it was!*
> 
> AND, she had a sign over the loo roll holder that said (and this is impressive because I haven't seen it for over 30 years):
> 
> Ladies use the seat
> This is your treat,
> But gentlemen if late
> Please do aim straight.


My grandma's house still has a separate toilet and bathroom. Sink and bath in one and the toilet in the room next door. How's it unhygienic though?

I know someone who has just got a carpet in their bathroom...carpet!!  :Wtf


----------



## MilleD

PawsOnMe said:


> My grandma's house still has a separate toilet and bathroom. Sink and bath in one and the toilet in the room next door. How's it unhygienic though?


Because you go to the loo then open both the loo door and then the bathroom door before washing your hands. I think that's unhygienic.


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Because you go to the loo then open both the loo door and then the bathroom door before washing your hands. I think that's unhygienic.


I have a separate toilet and bathroom. But I also have a washbasin in my toilet which is slightly smaller than the one in my bathroom, so my hands get washed in the toilet.

As I live on my own it's very rarely I close the door shut to either the bathroom or the toilet, because very often a four legged will follow me in and want to go out before I've finished what I'm doing so it's easier to leave the door slightly ajar so they can push it open and let themselves out!


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> I have a separate toilet and bathroom. *But I also have a washbasin in my toilet *which is slightly smaller than the one in my bathroom, so my hands get washed in the toilet.
> 
> As I live on my own it's very rarely I close the door shut to either the bathroom or the toilet, because very often a four legged will follow me in and want to go out before I've finished what I'm doing so it's easier to leave the door slightly ajar so they can push it open and let themselves out!


I get that, a lot of cloakroom sinks are small, I have one in my ensuite.

I never shut any doors in my house, otherwise there is an idiot cat scratching at the other side. Not necessarily wanting to be in the room, just not happy being the other side of a door.


----------



## SusieRainbow

We had a separate toilet and bathroom in our last house, so put a sink in the toilet and another toilet in the bathroom. It worked really well preventing the kids from barging in while I was having a relaxing soak.
I remember those toilet roll dolls , you could always get them at craft sales.
Now they *were* unhygienic - all that spray !


----------



## tyg'smum

Sacremist said:


> I wonder if any homes still have these coloured bathroom suites or has everyone changed them to white.


Not only do I have a coloured bathroom suite (it's a rather nice blue, not too bright) - but it's the orginal from when the house was built - 1930s!


----------



## MollySmith

Just pm’d the mods and called them moss, apologies! Predictive text!!!

We had a bright blue 1930s suite but the bath was almost into the kitchen but my new one cost me £50 as it was an exdisplay suite from a posh showroom. If I’m ever interviewed by a posh home mag (like that’s ever going to happen!) it’s my bargain story! And the drunk ebay pew story.


----------



## Nettles

Jesthar said:


> Mum and I have a silly game we play whenever we go clothes shopping called "Guess what's going to be in the sale" (or "Guess why that is IN the sale" - aka 'What were they SMOKING when they made THAT?!?').
> 
> Whilst not clothing, those would definitely have have qualified on both counts! :Vomit


I had a cringe moment once when passing comment on a hideous looking top in the sale. Something along the lines of "well we know why this thing is reduced" only to spot it sitting in the trolley of the lady standing right beside me :Bag


----------



## Cleo38

MilleD said:


> My Nan ALWAYS had her spare roll under a lady's skirt.
> 
> She also had a toilet in one room and the sink and bath in another, it never even struck us how unhygienic it was!
> 
> AND, she had a sign over the loo roll holder that said (and this is impressive because I haven't seen it for over 30 years):
> 
> Ladies use the seat
> This is your treat,
> But gentlemen if late
> Please do aim straight.


When my nan & granddad moved to their bungalow they had the same with separate rooms, & of course the toilet had the obligatory doll with a crocheted skirt hiding the spare loo roll. They also had a sign on the toilet door which read "The Office" which they seemed to find hilarious ...


----------



## MollySmith

Nettles said:


> I had a cringe moment once when passing comment on a hideous looking top in the sale. Something along the lines of "well we know why this thing is reduced" only to spot it sitting in the trolley of the lady standing right beside me :Bag


Oooooh awkward!!!!


----------



## MollySmith

And thanks lovely mods not moss, appreciated


----------



## delca1

Magyarmum said:


> I have a separate toilet and bathroom. But I also have a washbasin in my toilet which is slightly smaller than the one in my bathroom, so *my hands get washed in the toilet*.


You wash your hands in the toilet?  Hope you flush first


----------



## Lurcherlad

There are still members who feel they have been wronged by others (rightly or wrongly) who make veiled comments on other threads imo.

I don’t see that changing so there will always be potential for a flare up.

I guess that’s when the Mods will get involved but satisfying both sides will be almost impossible.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Lurcherlad said:


> There are still members who feel they have been wronged by others (rightly or wrongly) who make veiled comments on other threads imo.
> 
> I don't see that changing so there will always be potential for a flare up.
> 
> I guess that's when the Mods will get involved but satisfying both sides will be almost impossible.


Yes especially when some members get penalised for allegedly doing something that others have quite clearly done to them. I feel this thread is no longer serving any useful purpose mods so feel free to close it.


----------



## kimthecat




----------



## Jesthar

Nettles said:


> I had a cringe moment once when passing comment on a hideous looking top in the sale. Something along the lines of "well we know why this thing is reduced" only to spot it sitting in the trolley of the lady standing right beside me :Bag


Oops! Hope they didn't hear! 

Thankfully that's never happened, athough given that I got The Dame Edna Everidge Award for Tact and Diplomacy from the teachers when I left secondary school, no-one who knows me would be surprised!


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Why does it have to be closed? If anyone genuinely has anything else to say, they would then need to start another thread on the same topic.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Why does it have to be closed? If anyone genuinely has anything else to say, they would then need to start another thread on the same topic.


I didn't say it has to be closed or even ask for it to be closed - I simply said feel free to close it. If people want it left open and still have issues to raise I'm fine with that too although I would prefer it if all members of the forum were allowed to use it otherwise it sort of defeats the object.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Hear you loud and clear RPH, but I did worry that 'feel free to close it' may be taken as an instruction (even though that's technically not what it was).


----------



## lymorelynn

I see no reason to close it even if it does keep going off at very diverse tangents.


----------



## kimthecat

Talking about bad taste, what about Mullets !


----------



## StormyThai

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I would prefer it if all members of the forum were allowed to use it otherwise it sort of defeats the object.


I'm confused...what members aren't allowed to use the thread?


----------



## Rafa

StormyThai said:


> I'm confused...what members aren't allowed to use the thread?


I was wondering too.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

StormyThai said:


> I'm confused...what members aren't allowed to use the thread?


I'm not going to break a confidence but if the person is reading this please pm me and let me know if you are OK with me taking this up.


----------



## StormyThai

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm not going to break a confidence but if the person is reading this please pm me and let me know if you are OK with me taking this up.


Please pm either myself or a mod please...no one has been stopped taking part in this thread to our knowledge so we need to know so that we can sort it...it would have been better to pm one of us as soon as the issue arose instead of assuming


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

StormyThai said:


> Please pm either myself or a mod please...no one has been stopped taking part in this thread to our knowledge so we need to know so that we can sort it...it would have been better to pm one of us as soon as the issue arose instead of assuming


If and when the member concerned pms me I will let you know but if you and all of the mods are quite sure that one member hasn't been banned from this thread only (which we established earlier it was possible to do) then I apologise but I shall wait and see if I hear from them.


----------



## StormyThai

So it's OK to accuse us of stopping someone taking part in the thread but you won't give all the info we need to sort it!


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

StormyThai said:


> So it's OK to accuse us of stopping someone taking part in the thread but you won't give all the info we need to sort it!


Yes. I said I wasn't go to break a confidence without permission. I also said if it turns out this member has not been banned from this thread then I will apologise. This thread is (or was) supposed to be just for raising such issues that we have not been allowed to do elsewhere because the threads get closed so if its OK with you that is what I am going to use it for


----------



## StormyThai

I'm sorry but I take issue when we are accused of excluding someone when you can't give all the facts we need to sort it out...Maybe refrain from going public until you have all the facts and have permission to share the info...

Although it would have saved this upset if the person you are referring to just pm'd us herself.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

StormyThai said:


> I'm sorry but I take issue when we are accused of excluding someone when you can't give all the facts we need to sort it out...Maybe refrain from going public until you have all the facts and have permission to share the info...
> 
> Although it would have saved this upset if the person you are referring to just pm'd us herself.


That's fine, I can deal with you taking issue with my posts but I will continue to post how I see fit unless I am breaking any rules.


----------



## lymorelynn

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes. I said I wasn't go to break a confidence without permission. I also said if it turns out this member has not been banned from this thread then I will apologise. This thread is (or was) supposed to be just for raising such issues that we have not been allowed to do elsewhere because the threads get closed so if its OK with you that is what I am going to use it for


After some checking we know who the member is and they will have been informed of the reason for their reply ban.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

lymorelynn said:


> After some checking we know who the member is and they will have been informed of the reason for their reply ban.


Thank you for checking and for sharing that information. Could I respectfully ask please if they could be allowed to contribute to this thread as they were no more disruptive than anyone else and behaved better than some so it makes a mockery of keeping the thread open and running if one member cannot post on it.


----------



## lymorelynn

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Thank you for checking and for sharing that information. Could I respectfully ask please if they could be allowed to contribute to this thread as they were no more disruptive than anyone else and behaved better than some so it makes a mockery of keeping the thread open and running if one member cannot post on it.


Working on it


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

lymorelynn said:


> Working on it


Thank you.


----------



## Clive G v2

SusieRainbow said:


> I've got a better idea.





SusieRainbow said:


> Ta-da-a-a-a


Thank you for confirming my assertion about "childish moderation" and "making the rules up as you go".

I broke no rules, you just decided you didn't like me (you found me rude, likewise I found you and other mods rude as well) and banned my account for "trolling". Look up what trolling actually is, you might learn something that will help you in your role as a moderator.

That and the recent banning of another member from posting on this thread also confirms the censorship accusation.

As I said, you can't ban anyone from here only usernames, and there's plenty of them left!


----------



## Rafa

Clive G v2 said:


> Thank you for confirming my assertion about "childish moderation" and "making the rules up as you go".
> 
> I broke no rules, you just decided you didn't like me (you found me rude, likewise I found you and other mods rude as well) and banned my account for "trolling". Look up what trolling actually is, you might learn something that will help you in your role as a moderator.
> 
> That and the recent banning of another member from posting on this thread also confirms the censorship accusation.
> 
> As I said, you can't ban anyone from here only usernames, and there's plenty of them left!


And you're calling others childish?

Why don't you go and find something productive to do?


----------



## Clive G v2

Rafa said:


> Why don't you go and find something productive to do?


Why don't you? Is this the best use of your time?


----------



## Rafa

Clive G v2 said:


> Why don't you? Is this the best use of your time?


Yes. I try often to help those who come to the forum looking for help with their dogs, particularly in the Breeding Section.

You, on the other hand, are here to stir up trouble and criticise the Moderators.


----------



## MilleD

Clive G v2 said:


> Why don't you? Is this the best use of your time?


Who are you?

Are you someone who has been banned who has been stalking the forum for a chance for revenge? Cool.

Although you might want to get out more


----------



## Zaros

Clive G v2 said:


> Thank you for confirming my assertion about "childish moderation" and "making the rules up as you go".
> 
> I broke no rules, you just decided you didn't like me (you found me rude, likewise I found you and other mods rude as well) and banned my account for "trolling". Look up what trolling actually is, you might learn something that will help you in your role as a moderator.
> 
> That and the recent banning of another member from posting on this thread also confirms the censorship accusation.
> 
> As I said, you can't ban anyone from here only usernames, and there's plenty of them left!


Dr Pepper, I presume.

Welcome aboard.


----------



## MilleD

Zaros said:


> Dr Pepper, I presume.
> 
> Welcome aboard.


Is it? Oh, in that case, it's fine


----------



## Eeyore

Thank you RPH for asking for clarification about bans, as this is a really good example of why it is difficult to know what can be posted. I really could not have understood why someone on this thread got a "thread based" ban, whatever that is? Surely the rules must be the same for all? For me this is also too much "protection" from mods and will create only more work for them. Clear rules, which are the same for all members should make being a mod easier and less stressful. What do you think mods? Think about new members too, how they could possibly know what are the rules, if they are unwritten or based on personal opinions. I like the original rules. PC, family forum and no personal insults like "you are an idiot".

I was also wondering about apologies. I have seen many saying sorry, I didn´t mean my post to be taken that way, which to me is normal and quite right. I certainly write something I regret later.  After all we all humans and often post something in haste or being a bit emotional and just express how we feel. That is human nature. But it is a totally different case if someone deliberately starts campaigning against or even lying about someone else. I´m sure we all know the difference. In some cases this is even criminal offence. So IMO public, formal apologies should be used with great consideration. Sometimes they can clear the air and as a result no one needs banning, but they shouldn´t be used when a simple sorry, I didn´t mean it that way is enough. Mods have been pretty fair about this and understood very well what is the difference between the two.

But as a result, mods must be clear about the rules and the use, let all write what they want, as long as it is PC, no personal insults and remembering this is a family forum. Otherwise I just would not know e..g. how to describe Trump, Putin or many other politicians in a proper way.


----------



## kimthecat

oh great  , <sigh>

The owner of this forum and the Mods can do what they like .
Get over it.

ETA Just to be clear , the above is aimed at the unbanned bloke. or maybe he is banned again ?


----------



## havoc

I know I'm old and my memory probably isn't what it was but I joined this forum a decade ago and back then there were loads of knowledgeable people full of experience they were happy to share with others. Yes, we'd get the occasional self-proclaimed expert who knew absolutely nothing and was happy to share it with the world but they didn't last. What the hell has happened? It's become a soapbox for some and an apparent refuge for others who must be humoured. Anyone with moderate views who dares to air them is deemed a bully and nobody must ever be told they're wrong - even if they give out dangerous and stupid advice. This can't be blamed on the B word - it happens on all sorts of threads.


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Who are you?
> 
> Are you someone who has been banned who has been stalking the forum for a chance for revenge? Cool.
> 
> Although you might want to get out more


I remember who he is and he's not Dr Pepper!


----------



## kimthecat

This is going well , dontcha think !


----------



## kimthecat

MilleD said:


> Who are you?
> 
> Are you someone who has been banned who has been stalking the forum for a chance for revenge? Cool.
> 
> Although you might want to get out more


 It could be an alias , a member who has a second account just to cause trouble and to back themselves up in an argument and say stuff that would get them banned.

So is this Clive banned or not or is he just pretending ?


----------



## Zaros

kimthecat said:


> If one member has enough valid complaints against them from different members over a period of time then the Mods should deal with him effectively.


As a member who just so happens to be a _'him'_ I wonder who this_ 'him' _might be? Why is it not a _'her'_?

Surely, in our time of being heavily influenced by political correctness we are all equals and, therefore, you should have concluded the above statement with _ 'deal with this member effectively' _


----------



## lullabydream

Zaros said:


> As a member who just so happens to be a _'him'_ I wonder who this_ 'him' _might be? Why is it not a _'her'_?
> 
> Surely, in our time of being heavily influenced by political correctness we are all equals and, therefore, you should have concluded the above statement with _ 'deal with this member effectively' _


Am sure it's figure of speech 
Could have also used s/he too.


----------



## Jesthar

Oooh, a boomerang troll! This is gonna be fun...


----------



## Magyarmum

Zaros said:


> As a member who just so happens to be a _'him'_ I wonder who this_ 'him' _might be? Why is it not a _'her'_?
> 
> Surely, in our time of being heavily influenced by political correctness we are all equals and, therefore, you should have concluded the above statement with _ 'deal with this member effectively' _


Well considering the person I was referring to states "male" on his profile I think it's fair to assume he is what he says he is and therefore it would have been both rude and incorrect to refer to him as her? Or maybe I'm wrong?


----------



## cheekyscrip

Hi... just testing if I am allowed to post here again.



If you read it let me know...

But honestly I think I really expressed my opinion loud and clear before was banned so it was a bit surplus.
Sadly my questions which posts got me banned and why were NOT answered.
Only that it was “many of them” - not very satisfactory. 
Accused have rights to know the charges?

Thank you RL for unbanning, penance done, what have I missed?


----------



## Zaros

Magyarmum said:


> Well considering the person I was referring to states "male" on his profile I think it's fair to assume he is what he says he is and therefore it would have been both rude and incorrect to refer to him as her? Or maybe I'm wrong?


 But I wasn't quoting you.


----------



## Zaros

cheekyscrip said:


> Hi... just testing if I am allowed to post here again.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read it let me know...
> 
> But honestly I think I really expressed my opinion loud and clear before was banned so it was a bit surplus.
> Sadly my questions which posts got me banned and why were NOT answered.
> Only that it was "many of them" - not very satisfactory.
> Accused have rights to know the charges?
> 
> Thank you RL for unbanning, penance done, what have I missed?


Strange turn of events when the plaintive and the defendant are resigned to different rooms. No one really knows what's being said or by whom or for what reason.:Wacky


----------



## Sacrechat

cheekyscrip said:


> Hi... just testing if I am allowed to post here again.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read it let me know...
> 
> But honestly I think I really expressed my opinion loud and clear before was banned so it was a bit surplus.
> Sadly my questions which posts got me banned and why were NOT answered.
> Only that it was "many of them" - not very satisfactory.
> Accused have rights to know the charges?
> 
> Thank you RL for unbanning, penance done, what have I missed?


We were discussing what colour bathroom suites we all have.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Sacremist said:


> We were discussing what colour bathroom suites we all have.


All the suites themselves are white in this house. But my downstairs loo has an overall 'multicoloured' theme.


----------



## Cleo38

Ceiling Kitty said:


> All the suites themselves are white in this house. But my downstairs loo has an overall 'multicoloured' theme.


Don't fancy a poo brown one then?!


----------



## Jonescat

No!
Bathrooms should be clinical white and chrome, verging on the medical, although you can have a coloured towel if you must.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Sacremist said:


> We were discussing what colour bathroom suites we all have.


I am afraid my " abusive, overly aggressive and threatening " posts that " caused offense" would not go down nicely in your toilets....


----------



## Zaros

cheekyscrip said:


> *I am afraid my* " *abusive*, overly *aggressive and threatening* " *posts* that " caused offense" *would not go down nicely *in your toilets....


You. abusive, aggressive and threatening, Scrippy. 

Well I never.

Who would have thought a meek little thing such as your good self had it in them to be abusive, aggressive and threatening.

I'll be bloody careful of what I'm posting in relation to you.

I wouldn't want you coming round here and being that way with me or my dogs.

They like a challenge.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

Cleo38 said:


> Don't fancy a poo brown one then?!
> View attachment 365917


It looks like the entire thing has been varnished!

When I say 'multi-coloured', I don't mean the walls! Here's mine:


----------



## Rafa

That's very nice @Ceiling Kitty.


----------



## kimthecat

Cleo38 said:


> Don't fancy a poo brown one then?!
> View attachment 365917


OMG That is DISGUSTING ! :Vomit


----------



## cheekyscrip

Zaros said:


> You. abusive, aggressive and threatening, Scrippy.
> 
> Well I never.
> 
> Who would have thought a meek little thing such as your good self had it in them to be abusive, aggressive and threatening.
> 
> I'll be bloody careful of what I'm posting in relation to you.
> 
> I wouldn't want you coming round here and being that way with me or my dogs.
> 
> They like a challenge.


Just feed me after midnight....:Troll


----------



## simplysardonic

Cleo38 said:


> Don't fancy a poo brown one then?!
> View attachment 365917


No word of a lie this was the colour of my childhood bathroom.


----------



## Zaros

cheekyscrip said:


> Just feed me after midnight....:Troll


I could feed you round the clock, chuck.

After all,

I like a large girl who's big through the hips. Roomy.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Zaros said:


> I could feed you round the clock, chuck.
> 
> After all,
> 
> I like a large girl who's big through the hips. Roomy.


Feed me ...


----------



## kimthecat

simplysardonic said:


> No word of a lie this was the colour of my childhood bathroom.


That explains a lot !


----------



## rottiepointerhouse

cheekyscrip said:


> Hi... just testing if I am allowed to post here again.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read it let me know...
> 
> But honestly I think I really expressed my opinion loud and clear before was banned so it was a bit surplus.
> Sadly my questions which posts got me banned and why were NOT answered.
> Only that it was "many of them" - not very satisfactory.
> Accused have rights to know the charges?
> 
> Thank you RL for unbanning, penance done, what have I missed?


Welcome back to the thread


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

@O2.0 I am actually cooking tonight, this happens rarely (but I'm told it's a full moon so maybe that's the reason).


----------



## Sacrechat

Cleo38 said:


> Don't fancy a poo brown one then?!
> View attachment 365917


:Vomit Ugleeee! Both family bathroom and ensuite are white with white marble tiles in family bathroom and travertine marble in ensuite. We have splashes of light brown in family and splashes of purple in the ensuite.

Downstairs WC, however, is cream. All very neutral. I like my colours to be in the furnishings not the fixtures.


----------



## Sacrechat

cheekyscrip said:


> I am afraid my " abusive, overly aggressive and threatening " posts that " caused offense" would not go down nicely in your toilets....


 A bit like my sister's deposits then.


----------



## lymorelynn

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I have no doubt you will close this but please can I ask how and where we can have this discussion, not about other members or why they have left, but we do need to talk about the undercurrents that are going on at the moment.
> 
> I had typed out a reply on the now closed thread urging people to put their health first and walk away from squabbles than drag them down into negativity. Healthy and lively debate even heated debate is fine but not when these festering sores develop that could be detrimental to member's health.
> 
> If every thread on the subject gets closed then how do we move forwards?


And now having had this discussion have we moved forward? Has anything changed?
Regarding the politics we are trying to get a separate sub-forum set up - the degree of moderation has not yet been decided but I believe it will be very light.
However the undercurrents are still here. We have complaints and reports about harassment, about unfair moderation, about over moderation, under moderation. Speaking for myself, there could well be no moderation by the way I feel at the moment. 
I have said this before but don't mind repeating - no one is going to like everyone or agree with each other on everything, You may not want to put those you dislike on ignore but there is no reason why you can't just read and carry on or skip over their posts (this is a very general 'you' I have no one in particular in mind). Don't follow someone you disagree with just to complain about them. Don't make obscure comments about someone you dislike in the hope you might provoke them to respond and cause an argument. I don't what else I can say but please can we have an end to this tension and hostility. I know members of this forum are better than that. I've seen the way they can rally round those who need help. 
That's it - goodnight and have a good weekend


----------



## SusieRainbow

lymorelynn said:


> And now having had this discussion have we moved forward? Has anything changed?
> Regarding the politics we are trying to get a separate sub-forum set up - the degree of moderation has not yet been decided but I believe it will be very light.
> However the undercurrents are still hLikeere. We have complaints and reports about harassment, about unfair moderation, about over moderation, under moderation. Speaking for myself, there could well be no moderation by the way I feel at the moment.
> I have said this before but don't mind repeating - no one is going to like everyone or agree with each other on everything, You may not want to put those you dislike on ignore but there is no reason why you can't just read and carry on or skip over their posts (this is a very general 'you' I have no one in particular in mind). Don't follow someone you disagree with just to complain about them. Don't make obscure comments about someone you dislike in the hope you might provoke them to respond and cause an argument. I don't what else I can say but please can we have an end to this tension and hostility. I know members of this forum are better than that. I've seen the way they can rally round those who need help.
> That's it - goodnight and have a good weekend


I would like to say I feel the same as Lynn. 
I worked really hard to give answers to the questions that were asked about moderation, to be fair, approachable, friendly.
All I've had back is abuse and criticism.
No idea how we're going to move forward - everyone needs to consider carefully what they post and how it will affect others. If we all did this mods wouldn't be needed.


----------



## kimthecat

Sacremist said:


> A bit like my sister's deposits then.


Toilets are made to take away crap so I'm sure everyone's deposits will go down very nicely .


----------



## Ceiling Kitty

lymorelynn said:


> We have complaints and reports about harassment, about unfair moderation, about over moderation, under moderation.


And therein lies the rub: almost every example of moderation or non-moderation will be seen as inappropriate by some and not by others, because everyone is different and their opinions differ with them.

It's impossible to modify everyone's behaviour to fit the same template - nor would it be fair to do so even if feasible - so I think the conclusion is that anyone unhappy about a moderating decision will have to just live with it.

Just because you disagree with a moderating decision doesn't mean everyone else does. It's swings and roundabouts; tomorrow, a decision may be made that you support that others don't.


----------



## stockwellcat.

I appreciate all the hard work the mods do on this forum.

I agree that we have to (me included) consider what we post and how it affects others.

I am sorry to read the mods are getting abuse, there is no need for that kind of behaviour at all and it makes me sad reading this. Without the mods this forum would be chaos and I think everyone should show the mods a bit of respect as at the end of the day they are only volunteers taking time out of their free time to moderate this forum so it remains a family friendly place to be.

Thank you mods and please do not feel down hearted about things, you are doing a fantastic job and thank you for giving up your free time to moderate and look after this forum.

I hope everyone has a nice weekend?


----------



## delca1

stockwellcat. said:


> I appreciate all the hard work the mods do on this forum.
> 
> I agree that we have to (me included) consider what we post and how it affects others.
> 
> I am sorry to read the mods are getting abuse, there is no need for that kind of behaviour at all and it makes me sad reading this. Without the mods this forum would be chaos and I think everyone should show the mods a bit of respect as at the end of the day they are only volunteers taking time out of their free time to moderate this forum so it remains a family friendly place to be.
> 
> Thank you mods and please do not feel down hearted about things, you are doing a fantastic job and thank you for giving up your free time to moderate and look after this forum.
> 
> I hope everyone has a nice weekend?


I have only recently logged on to pf after quite a while away (life got chaotic) and I was surprised and saddened at this thread, I had obviously missed the original cause. I just want to ditto stockwellcat's post and add that a bit of respect towards other members would be good too.


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## Sacrechat

kimthecat said:


> Toilets are made to take away crap so I'm sure everyone's deposits will go down very nicely .


Unless someone's full of crap!  The bowl could overflow.


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## rottiepointerhouse

lymorelynn said:


> And now having had this discussion have we moved forward? Has anything changed?
> Regarding the politics we are trying to get a separate sub-forum set up - the degree of moderation has not yet been decided but I believe it will be very light.
> However the undercurrents are still here. We have complaints and reports about harassment, about unfair moderation, about over moderation, under moderation. Speaking for myself, there could well be no moderation by the way I feel at the moment.
> I have said this before but don't mind repeating - no one is going to like everyone or agree with each other on everything, You may not want to put those you dislike on ignore but there is no reason why you can't just read and carry on or skip over their posts (this is a very general 'you' I have no one in particular in mind). Don't follow someone you disagree with just to complain about them. Don't make obscure comments about someone you dislike in the hope you might provoke them to respond and cause an argument. I don't what else I can say but please can we have an end to this tension and hostility. I know members of this forum are better than that. I've seen the way they can rally round those who need help.
> That's it - goodnight and have a good weekend


I'm sorry you and @SusieRainbow feel like that. I do think we have moved forward in that we have all had the opportunity to air how we feel and ask questions about moderating decisions which it was really kind of some of you to take the time to answer. Its unfortunate the banning of one member from this thread caused some disagreement today but it has now been resolved which is perhaps something we wouldn't have been able to do before. As to ending the undercurrent of hostility I think perhaps those wounds have gone too deep for too long so they are best left alone now which is another reason I think it would be a good idea to close this thread but obviously I will go with the mod's decision on that. Thank you again to the mods who have taken part in the thread.


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## SusieRainbow

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm sorry you and @SusieRainbow feel like that. I do think we have moved forward in that we have all had the opportunity to air how we feel and ask questions about moderating decisions which it was really kind of some of you to take the time to answer. Its unfortunate the banning of one member from this thread caused some disagreement today but it has now been resolved which is perhaps something we wouldn't have been able to do before. As to ending the undercurrent of hostility I think perhaps those wounds have gone too deep for too long so they are best left alone now which is another reason I think it would be a good idea to close this thread but obviously I will go with the mod's decision on that. Thank you again to the mods who have taken part in the thread.


Thanks for the kind words, I think you're right. 
:Locktopic


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## LinznMilly

lymorelynn said:


> And now having had this discussion have we moved forward? Has anything changed?
> Regarding the politics we are trying to get a separate sub-forum set up - the degree of moderation has not yet been decided but I believe it will be very light.
> However the undercurrents are still here. We have complaints and reports about harassment, about unfair moderation, about over moderation, under moderation. Speaking for myself, there could well be no moderation by the way I feel at the moment.
> I have said this before but don't mind repeating - no one is going to like everyone or agree with each other on everything, You may not want to put those you dislike on ignore but there is no reason why you can't just read and carry on or skip over their posts (this is a very general 'you' I have no one in particular in mind). Don't follow someone you disagree with just to complain about them. Don't make obscure comments about someone you dislike in the hope you might provoke them to respond and cause an argument. I don't what else I can say but please can we have an end to this tension and hostility. I know members of this forum are better than that. I've seen the way they can rally round those who need help.
> That's it - goodnight and have a good weekend


Just popping in here to say I totally agree with this.

I might not have taken as much of an active part on this thread as some of the other mods, but I have been reading it and let's be honest, a lot of it doesn't make for pleasant reading. I have a suspicion that some of this is in relation to decisions I've made in the past, and to be honest, it's made me feel like logging off and not coming back, too.

We're not asking anyone to fully agree with every mod decision we make, but we are human and a lot of these posts on this thread, have cut right to the bone.

We mods appreciate the kind words and the comments of gratitude and thanks that many of you have made - please don't think this is aimed at you.

Thank you for the support.


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