# frug puppies



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Hello all,
First off, I am a very experienced pug breeder, and take it very seriously. I’ve been doing it for 10 years now, and have had 7 successful litters. I have a female fawn of my own who is 2, who I am considering breeding with a male grey Frenchie. I’ve seen frug puppies before, they are adorable and great dogs. I am just wondering if any of you have bred frugs before, and if you have, what colors were the parents, and what colors were the pups? How many did you have? Were the pups ears up or down? Any complications? Any info would be great!! Thank you in advance for reading this post.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Welcome to the forum.

What benefit would there be to crossing a pug and a French bulldog? Is it just that they look cute?


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

acomb1 said:


> I've seen frug puppies before, they are adorable and great dogs.


I am going to disagree with you on this point. Crossing two Brachycephalic breeds is bad combination which will often result in dogs with complex breathing issues. If you are an experienced Pug breeder you will know that both these breeds are highly susceptible to Brachycephalic Obstructive Airway Syndrome and breeding them together will do nothing to improve this area of their health.

All puppies are adorable. But adult dogs with breathing difficulties are not.

J


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

I am very aware of specific health problems pugs and frenchies are prone to, but that being said, they are still happy and loving dogs. They can live long and happy lives with caring and responsible owners. In fact, I have a 14 year old pug who i rescued when she was 6 months old who is happy and healthy. I would never breed just to create a ‘cute puppy’. Crossing the breeds does not make any of the ‘breathing problems’ either breed faces any worse. Frugs are known to inherit positive qualities from both of their parents, including their temperament, coat, agility, and more. 

Although you did not answer any of my questions, thank you for your input. I know what I am talking about, and the best interest of dogs is always my first priority.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> I am very aware of specific health problems pugs and frenchies are prone to, but that being said, they are still happy and loving dogs. They can live long and happy lives with caring and responsible owners. In fact, I have a 14 year old pug who i rescued when she was 6 months old who is happy and healthy. I would never breed just to create a 'cute puppy'. Crossing the breeds does not make any of the 'breathing problems' either breed faces any worse. Frugs are known to inherit positive qualities from both of their parents, including their temperament, coat, agility, and more.
> 
> Although you did not answer any of my questions, thank you for your input. I know what I am talking about, and the best interest of dogs is always my first priority.


If you know what you're talking about you'd know that crossing two breeds is a lottery - you could get the positive qualities from each parent just as easily as the negative qualities, or any mix in between.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> Hello all,
> First off, I am a very experienced pug breeder, and take it very seriously. I've been doing it for 10 years now, and have had 7 successful litters. I have a female fawn of my own who is 2, who I am considering breeding with a male grey Frenchie. I've seen frug puppies before, they are adorable and great dogs. I am just wondering if any of you have bred frugs before, and if you have, what colors were the parents, and what colors were the pups? How many did you have? Were the pups ears up or down? Any complications? Any info would be great!! Thank you in advance for reading this post.





McKenzie said:


> If you know what you're talking about you'd know that crossing two breeds is a lottery - you could get the positive qualities from each parent just as easily as the negative qualities, or any mix in between.


Obviously; however, maybe you are not a Frenchie or a Pug person, but in my opinion there are not very many negative qualities in either breed. The only negative aspects of either breed, is their susceptibility to breathing problems, in which they have in common. Otherwise, they are amazing dogs and I would be thrilled to have any qualities of either breed in the offsprings.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

acomb1 said:


> The *only *negative aspects of either breed, is their susceptibility to breathing problems, in which they have in common.


You can't simply dismiss their 'susceptibility to breathing problems' as their *only *negative as if it's a flaw in their colouring. It's a massive negative and in my opinion as a breeder you should be fighting for the improvement of health in your chosen breed not dabbling in breeding programmes that may exacerbate it.

And no, I can't help you with what colours the puppies may be. It's genetics though so can be worked out quite easily.

J


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

It seems like your problem is with pugs and frenchies, along with trying to be a know it all. Considering this is not what the forum was about at all, you could’ve just kept your ignorance to yourself. I currently have 7 pugs ranging from 6 months old to 14. I’ve never had a pug die younger than 14. None of my pugs are in pain, or have trouble breathing, they are all healthy and happy as can be. All vets I have encountered love my pugs and say they are in great health, despite issues pugs are prone to. It is just important they are taken care of properly and monitored. You really must not be familiar with pugs, and you must not have one of your own, which I’m glad, because it doesn’t seem like you’re very fond of them. So you might want to stick to your breed of choice, and stop bashing others.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Crossing two of the least healthy breeds on the planet together, great idea, not.

ALL extreme brachy breeds have trouble breathing naturally because of their physiology. 

Everyone who defends these breeds always claim their vets said they are "in great health"; well anyone can make that claim. It doesn't mean anything. By definition, dogs bred specifically for severe physiological deformities are not and will never be in great health. I suggest getting both dogs spayed and neutered and enjoying them as pets rather than adding the growing problem with these breeds.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

labradrk said:


> Crossing two of the least healthy breeds on the planet together, great idea, not.
> 
> ALL extreme brachy breeds have trouble breathing naturally because of their physiology.
> 
> Everyone who defends these breeds always claim their vets said they are "in great health"; well anyone can make that claim. It doesn't mean anything. By definition, dogs bred specifically for severe physiological deformities are not and will never be in great health. I suggest getting both dogs spayed and neutered and enjoying them as pets rather than adding the growing problem with these breeds.


Obviously you've never owned a pug, and have seen how happy and loving they are. If my vet looked at my dog and said there was something wrong, I would take it very seriously. I wouldn't ever lie and put words in my vets mouth. Besides the fact, I love all dog breeds, even ones i have never owned, and would never put so much hateful energy into bashing another breed. So, it seems like a person problem. Like I said previously, unless you've owned a pug and seen how amazing they are, I would never expect you to understand. Why would I want to aid in the discontinuation of such a great breed? Like I said, none of mine have ever had health/breathing issues or early deaths. Keep your negative energy away from pugs please, they deserve so much better.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Being rude to people on here is not going to get you to far I'm afraid. This is an open forum and and you are not able to dictate who answers your thread and what they might say even if not what you wish to hear. We are a forum of pet lovers and this includes pugs and Frenchies.

Both breeds suffer from a number of health issues besides BOAS,, will you be health testing for these? 
Unless you have both the dam and sire, I doubt very much that the owner of a well bred and health tested (not health checked by a vet, but specific tests) is going to allow it to be used to bredd with a pug in order to breed a litter of crossbred puppies. I have absolutely nothing against crossbred dogs before you jump in here, but I do have a huge issue with breeders who breed dogs whether purebred or crosses but do not do any health testing at all and just claim that the dogs are totally healthy because the vet said so. Breeding two dogs have have a number of severe health issues thinking that they will all magically disappear jusy won't occur. And before you tell me I must hate pugs and know nothing about them, well I dont, I think they are great little dogs with bags of character, but I am very angry with people who continue to breed and not consider the health issues within the breed and don't bother testing for those issues.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Siskin said:


> Being rude to people on here is not going to get you to far I'm afraid. This is an open forum and and you are not able to dictate who answers your thread and what they might say even if not what you wish to hear. We are a forum of pet lovers and this includes pugs and Frenchies.
> 
> Both breeds suffer from a number of health issues besides BOAS,, will you be health testing for these?
> Unless you have both the dam and sire, I doubt very much that the owner of a well bred and health tested (not health checked by a vet, but specific tests) is going to allow it to be used to bredd with a pug in order to breed a litter of crossbred puppies. I have absolutely nothing against crossbred dogs before you jump in here, but I do have a huge issue with breeders who breed dogs whether purebred or crosses but do not do any health testing at all and just claim that the dogs are totally healthy because the vet said so. Breeding two dogs have have a number of severe health issues thinking that they will all magically disappear jusy won't occur. And before you tell me I must hate pugs and know nothing about them, well I dont, I think they are great little dogs with bags of character, but I am very angry with people who continue to breed and not consider the health issues within the breed and don't bother testing for those issues.


You can't tell me all the people on here love all breeds of dogs, while they continue to bash certain breeds. Like i said before, I am a very responsible breeder, and that includes health tests. I would never breed dogs without performing health tests. I have never bred anything besides purebread pugs, I simply came on this forum for more information on frugs, and have been bashed ever since.

Thank you for your input though. I know none of you know me, so it's easy to think you're doing the right thing by trying to stop inexperienced, greedy breeders that aren't careful. But that just isn't the case. I am the most responsible breeder I know, and again, the dogs interest is always my number 1 priority. Again, this is why I will not tolerate people saying pugs are no good.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> Obviously you've never owned a pug, and have seen how happy and loving they are. If my vet looked at my dog and said there was something wrong, I would take it very seriously. I wouldn't ever lie and put words in my vets mouth. Besides the fact, I love all dog breeds, even ones i have never owned, and would never put so much hateful energy into bashing another breed. So, it seems like a person problem. Like I said previously, unless you've owned a pug and seen how amazing they are, I would never expect you to understand. Why would I want to aid in the discontinuation of such a great breed? Like I said, none of mine have ever had health/breathing issues or early deaths. Keep your negative energy away from pugs please, they deserve so much better.


I don't need to have owned one. I have, however, seen plenty of surgeries where they have had their eyeballs removed due to protrusion, and had to have surgery on their soft palate/nostrils to help them breath. They seemed to keep the veterinary dermatologist busy, and the ophthalmologist said they kept her in business too.

It's not the dogs themselves, it is completely the way they have been bred by humans and honestly, it's a travesty.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

acomb1 said:


> It seems like your problem is with pugs and frenchies, along with trying to be a know it all. Considering this is not what the forum was about at all, you could've just kept your ignorance to yourself.


Thank you. By the way, I'm not a 'know it all' lol but a prolific reader with an interest in all aspects to do with dogs.

May I suggest you read this .... (the summary will do as the article is not accessible to all I know).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090023313004280

The suggestion that the two breeds mentioned in the study should be bred *together *is a red flag to me.

J


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

labradrk said:


> I don't need to have owned one. I have, however, seen plenty of surgeries where they have had their eyeballs removed due to protrusion, and had to have surgery on their soft palate/nostrils to help them breath. They seemed to keep the veterinary dermatologist busy, and the ophthalmologist said they kept her in business too.
> 
> It's not the dogs themselves, it is completely the way they have been bred by humans and honestly, it's a travesty.


Can't relate, none of my pugs have ever needed a single surgery due to any health issues, including breathing problems. As a matter of fact, my 14 year old pug whom I rescued when she was a puppy, is blind in one eye due to a scratch caused by her previous openers neglect. And even with that happening, she never needed a surgery at all, and the eyeball is still in causing no problem at all. I keep in touch with all the dogs from my litters as well, none of them have ever needed any surgeries.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Nobody is breed bashing. Breeding pugs with any other brachy breeds is a very bad idea. I have seen plenty of pugs but don’t own them. If I were you I wouldn’t go ahead with breeding a pug with a frenchie.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> You can't tell me all the people on here love all breeds of dogs, while they continue to bash certain breeds


Pointing out the inherent health issues within certain breeds does not constitute 'breed bashing'.
I'm not against crossing pugs or Frenchies either, just not with each other. Cross either with a dog with a longer muzzle (and ideally a less stubby body), it's a step in the right direction - they would be able to live easier, more active lives..


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

I'm sorry, I have to agree with the others. I'm not an expert on breeding but I do know that both breeds suffer with breathing difficulties and crossing two breeds that suffer with breathing problems is not a good idea IMO. Now, I'm not breed bashing, pugs do have lovely personalities but WE have bred these animals to have inherent problems, a healthy pug, is never truly healthy IMO, when they have those squashed up faces that affect the breathing.

If you want to cross your pug, could you not cross it with something with a longer muzzle? You could then get some pups who may not struggle so much with their breathing. There are plenty of lovely dog breeds out there without the problems of pugs or frenchies.

You may have had your pugs that live long lives, but that doesn't mean they don't have difficulties with their breathing. It's something we're so used to seeing in brachies (the snoring, the panting etc) that I don't think people really think about it now

Yes frugs are cute puppies. But i don't really understand why anyone would have one of those over a purebred pug or Frenchie? What benefits does a frug have that the purebreeds don't? I would ask yourself those questions before crossing any breed.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> *You can't tell me all the people on here love all breeds of dogs, while they continue to bash certain breeds.* Like i said before, I am a very responsible breeder, and that includes health tests. I would never breed dogs without performing health tests. I have never bred anything besides purebread pugs, I simply came on this forum for more information on frugs, and have been bashed ever since.
> 
> Thank you for your input though. I know none of you know me, so it's easy to think you're doing the right thing by trying to stop inexperienced, greedy breeders that aren't careful. But that just isn't the case. I am the most responsible breeder I know, and again, the dogs interest is always my number 1 priority. Again, this is why I will not tolerate people saying pugs are no good.


It's because people on here love all dogs that they care enough to comment on the inherent health issues brought on from breeding for increasingly flat faces, pinched noses & skin rolls.

People don't need to 'know' these breeds to see there is something wrong with breeding animals for ever more extreme morphology, unfortunately there is a lot of cognitive dissonance ingrained within the brachy breed fancy.

To use an example, if I were to take my dog & pinch her nostrils together so she just has slits to breathe through & then hold them in place like that, for the rest of her life, I would be committing a serious welfare issue.

Yet it's OK, even encouraged in some quarters, to breed dogs that suffer like this from the minute they're born until the day they die, & for some to have to go through surgery, which carries its own set of risks with brachy dogs, just to breathe a bit easier?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

The RCVS don't agree with you










If your dogs are so healthy and without extremes of these inherent deformities (and you are ethical as you say you are) why risk producing a litter with the potential for worse problems?


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Oh dear why? 
Why the cross?
Why the name?
Why just why?!!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Oh dear why?
> Why the cross?
> Why the name?
> Why just why?!!


To paraphrase Jeff Goldblum:

People are so preoccupied with whether they could, they don't stop to think if they should.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Oh dear why?
> Why the cross?
> Why the name?
> Why just why?!!


£££££


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> Can't relate, none of my pugs have ever needed a single surgery due to any health issues, including breathing problems. As a matter of fact, my 14 year old pug whom I rescued when she was a puppy, is blind in one eye due to a scratch caused by her previous openers neglect. And even with that happening, she never needed a surgery at all, and the eyeball is still in causing no problem at all. I keep in touch with all the dogs from my litters as well, none of them have ever needed any surgeries.


A lot of owners tend to be denial about their dogs health or physical state. Obese dogs being the classic example. They walk among us everywhere, usually followed by sweet but misguided owner who believes their dog is "all coat", or "all muscle", or "big boned" or "just built that way". They are, literally, blind to it. It is the same with a lot of these extreme brachy dogs, the noises they make as they breath the owner just assumes is normal, and is even considered "sweet" or "endearing"....or God forbid even "funny".

Just because a dog has not required surgery actually doesn't mean they wouldn't benefit from it. Talk to most vets. The extremely sad reality is that nearly all of these brachy breeds would benefit from surgery.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

In my opinion, the best reason for breeding any pup is to try and better the Breed, that is produce pups which are better than their parents and to breed out any undesirable traits, or to produce working dogs, Guide Dogs, etc.

Why would you want to breed crossbred pups from two Breeds both of which can suffer dreadful health problems?

You can't be aiming to bring something positive to the Breed, nor to produce working dogs, so, why?

If you love Pugs as much as you say they do, why would you mess about with the Breed in that way?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Maybe work at improving it's head shape?


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe work at improving it's head shape?
> 
> View attachment 342230


Yes. Describe a dog in the breed standard as having a short muzzles, and it becomes a contest to see just how short the muzzle can be bred to be. Just look where that's got us. Less than a hundred years ago Pugs had proper, decent muzzles they could breathe through properly, albeit somewhat shorter muzzles than most other breeds.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Seems obvious doesn’t it?


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

acomb1 said:


> The only negative aspects of either breed, is their susceptibility to breathing problems, in which they have in common.


Really? What about hemivertebrae and other issues associated with extremely short or tightly curled tails? Brachycephalic Ocular Syndome? Skin fold dermatitis? Dental problems as a result of overcrowding of teeth in their shortened mouths? Both breeds are extremely susceptible to all these as well.

There's also the issue of how prone both breeds are to whelping complications. Pugs are notoriously bad whelpers but they've got nothing on Frenchies. Approximately 30% of pug litters are born via c section which is bad enough but in FBs the rate of c sections is 80%. The breed standards suggest FBs should be in the region of 50% larger than the top end of the recommended size for pugs. Using a considerably larger dog of a breed ridiculously prone to whelping difficulties on a smaller bitch who is also of a breed prone to whelping difficulties is just asking for trouble.

If you're passionate about the breed but open to cross breeding then there are far better choices you could make which would result in healthier, less exaggerated dogs who are still recognisably pugs. Have a look at the German 'retromops'; super little dogs with much improved conformation vastly reducing the likelihood of them suffering from breathing/eye/spinal but still unmistakably pugs. There are also some breeders (though sadly very few) who are doing a pretty good job of producing moderate pedigree pugs by selecting each generation for reduced exaggeration.

Sensible cross breeding could do both pugs and FBs the world of good but breeding two breeds together who suffer from all the same conformation related issues isn't likely to reliably produce more moderate, healthier dogs.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

SingingWhippet said:


> Really? What about hemivertebrae and other issues associated with extremely short or tightly curled tails? Brachycephalic Ocular Syndome? Skin fold dermatitis? Dental problems as a result of overcrowding of teeth in their shortened mouths? Both breeds are extremely susceptible to all these as well.
> 
> There's also the issue of how prone both breeds are to whelping complications. Pugs are notoriously bad whelpers but they've got nothing on Frenchies. Approximately 30% of pug litters are born via c section which is bad enough but in FBs the rate of c sections is 80%. The breed standards suggest FBs should be in the region of 50% larger than the top end of the recommended size for pugs. Using a considerably larger dog of a breed ridiculously prone to whelping difficulties on a smaller bitch who is also of a breed prone to whelping difficulties is just asking for trouble.
> 
> ...


And don't the retromops look so much better, far nicer head shape and a decent enough muzzle that it can breath properly.
When you look at how pugs used to look and how they are now, well I know which one I prefer and it's not the one with the almost flat face and unable to breathe properly.
If you want to produce crossbreed she OP, you would do well to look in to what is being done in Germany with the retromops in order to produce a pug that has a fair chance of drawing in a deep lungful of air


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Interesting article that as probably been shared on here before:

http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/the-frenchies-that-win-by-nose.html


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

labradrk said:


> Interesting article that as probably been shared on here before:
> 
> http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/the-frenchies-that-win-by-nose.html


Those moderate Frenchies are lovely looking dogs! Why would anyone in their right mind want one like Arnie in the first picture??? He has no muzzle whatsoever - it's actually quite disturbing.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Pug










German Retromop










Looking at the snouts, I know which looks better to me. Well, the Pug hasn't got one really


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Sarah H said:


> Those moderate Frenchies are lovely looking dogs! Why would anyone in their right mind want one like Arnie in the first picture??? He has no muzzle whatsoever - it's actually quite disturbing.


Isn't it amazing what different a nose makes?! I don't see how or why anyone could look at the other dog and think that was acceptable.....


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

labradrk said:


> Isn't it amazing what different a nose makes?! I don't see how or why anyone could look at the other dog and think that was acceptable.....


Thing is I like big snooters on a dog! Nothing better than a cold wet prod in the eye by an excited lurcher! 
The Retromop pugs look great too. They look like they could do more than a 5 min plod round the block without passing out...


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Burrowzig said:


> Yes. Describe a dog in the breed standard as having a short muzzles, and it becomes a contest to see just how short the muzzle can be bred to be. Just look where that's got us. Less than a hundred years ago Pugs had proper, decent muzzles they could breathe through properly, albeit somewhat shorter muzzles than most other breeds.


Some are beyond short now & have become almost concave 

@Lurcherlad I can't understand why the purists are so enraged by retromops, they still look like what they are- pugs- & still have the cute paedomorphic features people find desirable, with better physical health.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

acomb1 said:


> Hello all,
> First off, I am a very experienced pug breeder, and take it very seriously. I've been doing it for 10 years now, and have had 7 successful litters. I have a female fawn of my own who is 2, who I am considering breeding with a male grey Frenchie. I've seen frug puppies before, they are adorable and great dogs. I am just wondering if any of you have bred frugs before, and if you have, what colors were the parents, and what colors were the pups? How many did you have? Were the pups ears up or down? Any complications? Any info would be great!! Thank you in advance for reading this post.


Grey is not a recognised colour in the Frenchie.
If you by grey you mean Blue, slate or lilac then these are unrecognised colours in the Frenchie anyway, often advertised as rare and commanding high prices, these colours are not bred by good breeders in fact the French Bulldog club of England has warnings on their website to potential puppy buyers.
In fact good breeders don't breed these colours because the colourations are linked to health issues.

http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengland.org.uk/buyer-beware.html

Also as well as both breeds being brachycephalic breeds with known congenital airway problems (BOAS) both breeds also have other health issues and defects, both are known to have degenerative myelopathy in the breeds and in fact there is a DNA test for both breeds, both breeds are prone to hemivertebra also which is malformed wedge shaped vertebrae of the spine causing rear leg weakness and paralysis. There are also other well known health problems and conditions in both breeds.

Although both breeds may have wonderful personalities and temperaments, this is not a reason to even considering crossing these too breeds. Any breeding should be done for health which is as important iif not a lot more so as breeding for temperament. Personally I would concentrate on breeding and improving your lines of pugs and ensuring you do all possible to continue breeding healthy, well raised pugs because in both breeds there is a need for good breeders who do all they can to improve both breeds. As you can see from the French bulldog website they are doing all they can to improve health and welfare and discourage bad and on ethical breeders.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

simplysardonic said:


> It's because people on here love all dogs that they care enough to comment on the inherent health issues brought on from breeding for increasingly flat faces, pinched noses & skin rolls.
> 
> People don't need to 'know' these breeds to see there is something wrong with breeding animals for ever more extreme morphology, unfortunately there is a lot of cognitive dissonance ingrained within the brachy breed fancy.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but I've been around pugs long enough to know they do not suffer from the moment their born to when they did. This is just simply false. I can see how it is easy to think that if you only believe what you've read and you've never owned a pug. I have had other breeds of dogs too, such as Rottweiler, Newfoundland, beagle, & more. So I've seen other dogs live, & my pugs live just as happily as them.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

If you really believe that many Pugs are not brachycephalic and don't suffer breathing problems, then you really are not nearly so knowledgeable as you think you are.

It isn't just our opinion or 'breed bashing', unfortunately, it's fact.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> £££££


Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. There is a high demand for my pugs, people always ask me to breed more because I have such a great bloodline. I only breed each female one to two times tops (if i was just in it for the money, why would i stop there?). Secondly, I am very picky as to who i sell the pups to, so the price of the pups are very cheap as long as they go to a great home. Thanks for acting like you know me though!!!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> I have such a great bloodline


Do you show your Pugs?


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

I personally do not, but my pugs come from a line of show pugs.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

No veterinary neurologist, ophthalmologist or dermatologist will agree that BOAS is the only 'negative' about pugs.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Can we see a photo of these pugs with amazing breathing ability?


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## Izzy95 (Oct 8, 2016)

I don’t know the answer to your question you should make some money out of this, considering how popular pugs and frenchies are. Terrible idea, but no doubt you’ll go ahead anyway to make a few bob and have some great dogs with multiple health issues, poor dogs


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> I personally do not, but my pugs come from a line of show pugs.


Well. If your Pug bitches are well bred, from show stock and you're proud of the bloodlines, why do you want to cross one of them with a Frenchie of an unrecognised colour?


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Izzy95 said:


> I don't know the answer to your question you should make some money out of this, considering how popular pugs and frenchies are. Terrible idea, but no doubt you'll go ahead anyway to make a few bob and have some great dogs with multiple health issues, poor dogs


I'll repeat myself: Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. There is a high demand for my pugs, people always ask me to breed more because I have such a great bloodline. I only breed each female one to two times tops (if i was just in it for the money, why would i stop there?). Secondly, I am very picky as to who i sell the pups to, so the price of the pups are very cheap as long as they go to a great home. I wouldn't breed frugs just to make money. I care too much about dogs. Thanks for acting like you know me though!!!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> I wouldn't breed frugs just to make money


Well, why would you Breed them then?

It's a reasonable question.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Rafa said:


> Well. If your Pug bitches are well bred, from show stock and you're proud of the bloodlines, why do you want to cross one of them with a Frenchie of an unrecognised colour?


It is a recognized color, the color of the Frenchie I was considered to breed with is blue. I just calle for grey in my post because that's what it looks like, although it is recognized as "blue".

I was just considering it though, it is a friend of mine who owns the Frenchie, who is a vet tech. She proposed the idea, which is why I posted on here in the first place trying to get more info. If I didn't care I would have just done it.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Blue isn't recognised by the KC


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Rafa said:


> Well, why would you Breed them then?
> 
> It's a reasonable question.


To create dogs that have characteristics of both Frenchies and pugs. I know it may be hard for you to understand, but some people actually love these dogs.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

But surely, you have to recognise that Pugs and Frenchies are both classed as brachycephalic Breeds. The risk you would run of producing pups with serious and distressing health problems is very high.

Why would you risk it?

If you genuinely are not interested in the money, why would you risk it?


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> it is a friend of mine who owns the Frenchie, who is a vet tech. She proposed the idea,


If this is true, I'm shocked.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> To create dogs that have characteristics of both Frenchies and pugs. I know it may be hard for you to understand, but some people actually love these dogs.


It isn't hard for me to understand at all.

If you want the characteristics of a Pug, then buy a Pug. If it's Frenchie characteristics you want, then go for a Frenchie.

A mixed mating by no means guarantees a 'mix' of characteristics. The likelihood is the pups will take to either the Pug or Frenchie side of their breeding, not both.

You seem to be in denial about the dangers of mixing two brachycephalic Breeds.


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Rafa said:


> If this is true, I'm shocked.


Same here...the two vet nurses I know as more friends tell me horrendous stories of pugs being treated at vets for various ailments...I say pugs as my town is awash with them. All down to poor breeding.

My local vets receptionist, has a Boston terrier and a French bulldog, as a recent addition to her crew of toy breeds. The Boston and Frenchie were handovers to the vets as the people who owned them couldn't afford the vet care that they needed, for simply being born. It cost the receptionist a fair penny to help...but not every dog in this position is so lucky.


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## Izzy95 (Oct 8, 2016)

For a start can we stop with the ridiculous name. These would be cross breeds, French bulldogs crossed with pugs. Let’s not mislead anyone into thinking this is a breed in itself. I’ve never read anything more irresponsible in my life and I think it’s disgusting, regardless of what’s you say these puppies will be very lucky if they live a long and healthy life as the odds are stacked against them from the start


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Rafa said:


> It isn't hard for me to understand at all.
> 
> If you want the characteristics of a Pug, then buy a Pug. If it's Frenchie characteristics you want, then go for a Frenchie.
> 
> ...


I'm am not in denial at all. I'm just curious to hear your reply to this-because they are both brachycephalic breeds, what is the difference between breeding just pugs or just frenchies opposed to mixing them? From what you are saying, in both cases, both parents would be brachycephalic. So what's the difference?


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

It not just brachycephalic problems is it.

Both Frenchies and Pugs have different as well as some of the same health issues. Breeding them together could easily produce puppies that inherit both parents health problems, really the poor little things dont stand a chance


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Izzy95 said:


> For a start can we stop with the ridiculous name. These would be cross breeds, French bulldogs crossed with pugs. Let's not mislead anyone into thinking this is a breed in itself. I've never read anything more irresponsible in my life and I think it's disgusting, regardless of what's you say these puppies will be very lucky if they live a long and healthy life as the odds are stacked against them from the start


I didn't just create the name... it's what they're called. Frugs. Google it. Educate yourself. I know of frugs who have lived long and happy lives, just like my pugs and just like other frenchies. You're so closed minded and too busy trying to think you're above people to realize we're all on the same team, we all love dogs. The difference is I love all dogs, and see the great in pugs and frenchies.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I have just as much of a problem with anyone breeding Pugs with deformed heads.

Some people love the Breed, so will buy the pups regardless because they want a Pug.

What you are proposing is producing a litter of Crossbreeds with a very high risk of severe health problems.

If you truly are a conscientious breeder of Pugs and have a high regard for the breed, shouldn't you be devoting yourself to making improvements, through the correct choice of stud dog, rather than breeding mongrels?


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> I love all dogs, and see the great in pugs and frenchies


But, you're in denial about the health problems.

It absolutely is not good enough to say "oh, well I like the sound of that cross, so I'm going to do it because it's what I want", when the potential health risks could be terrible.

Will you please stop trying to suggest that because we are pointing out the realities of such an ill fated mating it means we are breed bashing or ill educated about dogs.

If you seriously believe this is a good idea, then you're the one with a lot to learn.


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## Izzy95 (Oct 8, 2016)

Yes people may call them that but it gives the wrong impression, that they’re a breed. Please don’t tell me to educate myself when you refuse to accept that you’re creating potentially the most unhealthy puppies possible. I love all dogs and i want them to have the best start in life, if you’re a pug breeder I don’t see why you want to mix them with frenchies what will that achieve? I don’t think I’m above anyone, but if you have to resort to insulting members here to justify your decision then that’s a shame


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> Google it. Educate yourself.


Seriously? Google? 
Google also has links telling me the earth is flat and why, doesn't make it true enguin


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> I didn't just create the name... it's what they're called. Frugs. Google it. Educate yourself. I know of frugs who have lived long and happy lives, just like my pugs and just like other frenchies. You're so closed minded and too busy trying to think you're above people to realize we're all on the same team, we all love dogs. The difference is I love all dogs, and see the great in pugs and frenchies.


Allow me to educate YOU.

If the advert says "Mongrel Pups for Sale" the 'breeder' may get a few quid for them.

However, "Adorable Rare Frug Puppies" is way more likely to bring the gullible running, ready to empty their wallets.

There is no such thing as a Frug. The name was no doubt coined by the first person who saw an opportunity to cash in on a litter of Crossbreeds.


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Rafa said:


> But, you're in denial about the health problems.
> 
> It absolutely is not good enough to say "oh, well I like the sound of that cross, so I'm going to do it because it's what I want", when the potential health risks could be terrible.
> 
> ...


If you think pugs and frenchies are the only ones with major health issues, because they look different than dogs with longer snouts, then you have a lot to learn.

Just as an example- Because of irresponsible breeding, German Shepherds are prone to hereditary diseases such as elbow and hip dysphasia, epilepsy, blood disorders, digestive issues, keratitis, chronic eczema and more. Another example- Corgis are prone to intervertebral disc disease, CHD, epilepsy and more.

It is not just pugs with health issues hate to tell you.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

And if anyone posted here saying they were planning to breed German Shepherds, the first thing they would be asked is whether the proposed Parent dogs had been tested/screened for hereditary conditions/defects.

Do you really believe you're right and we're all wrong?

Do you consider yourself to be a conscientious and ethical breeder, because if you do, you're woefully deluded.


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Lurcherlad said:


> Pug
> 
> View attachment 342233
> 
> ...


I know which looks better to me too and my vision is rubbish.


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Rafa said:


> Allow me to educate YOU.
> 
> If the advert says "Mongrel Pups for Sale" the 'breeder' may get a few quid for them.
> 
> ...


When we're you supposed to start educating me?? Still waiting.

How is this different than any other mix like Collie-Shepherds, puggles, golden doodles, and countless others?


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> If you think pugs and frenchies are the only ones with major health issues, because they look different than dogs with longer snouts, then you have a lot to learn.
> 
> Just as an example- Because of irresponsible breeding, German Shepherds are prone to hereditary diseases such as elbow and hip dysphasia, epilepsy, blood disorders, digestive issues, keratitis, chronic eczema and more. Another example- Corgis are prone to intervertebral disc disease, CHD, epilepsy and more.
> 
> It is not just pugs with health issues hate to tell you.


Correction. You have a lot to learn.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Wow, people from the UK really suck. Should’ve chosen a different forum site!! Bunch of people who think they know everything. Glad I’m hundreds of miles away from such ignorant people. I feel bad for your dogs.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> When we're you supposed to start educating me?? Still waiting.
> 
> How is this different than any other mix like Collie-Shepherds, puggles, golden doodles, and countless others?


And giving them a cute name means the gullible will cough up more money to have one. They are no more different and no more sillier then Frug, still a crossbred dog or a mongrel, nothing more nothing less


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> The difference is I love all dogs, and see the great in pugs and frenchies.












There is nothing to be gained from crossing these two breeds, they're screwed up enough on their own.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

acomb1 said:


> It is a recognized color, the color of the Frenchie I was considered to breed with is blue. I just calle for grey in my post because that's what it looks like, although it is recognized as "blue".
> 
> I was just considering it though, it is a friend of mine who owns the Frenchie, who is a vet tech. She proposed the idea, which is why I posted on here in the first place trying to get more info. If I didn't care I would have just done it.


Err, I think you will find that neither the French Bulldog club of England or the \Kennel club agree with you about Blues as I mentioned in my previous Post

French Bulldogs should only come in 
3 colours 
BRINDLE, PIED & FAWNFrench Bulldogs should NOT be 
Blue, Lilac, Chocolate, Black & Tan , Merle, or any colour or pattern other than the colours recognised in the 
Kennel Club Breed Standard

http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengland.org.uk/rare-colours.html

http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengla...7418/beware_if_you_see_adverts_like_these.pdf


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> Wow, people from the UK really suck. Should've chosen a different forum site!! Bunch of people who think they know everything. Glad I'm hundreds of miles away from such ignorant people. I feel bad for your dogs.


And I'm glad you are many hundreds of miles away so you won't be selling health compromised puppies to the British public


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Wow, people from the UK really suck. Should've chosen a different forum site!! Bunch of people who think they know everything.


picaresque said:


> There is nothing to be gained from crossing these two breeds, they're screwed up enough on their own.


Yeah calling them screwed up really makes you a dog lover.


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> Wow, people from the UK really suck. Should've chosen a different forum site!! Bunch of people who think they know everything. Glad I'm hundreds of miles away from such ignorant people. I feel bad for your dogs.


We're ignorant? Lol, who is it what wants to breed too brachy breeds? Not us. Don't like opinions or facts so you threaten to find another site, overreaction on your part. Why do you feel bad for our dogs. My westie is very happy and healthy.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Siskin said:


> And I'm glad you are many hundreds of miles away so you won't be selling health compromised puppies to the British public


The Brits have much more to worry about than that! Trust me


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

acomb1 said:


> I'm am not in denial at all. I'm just curious to hear your reply to this-because they are both brachycephalic breeds, what is the difference between breeding just pugs or just frenchies opposed to mixing them?


Crossing two extremely brachycephalic dogs to produce more of the same, regardless of whether they're the same breed or otherwise, is pretty reprehensible in and of itself but one of the the specific issues with the cross you're talking about, as I posted previously, is the likelihood of whelping difficulties. This is particularly so if you're intending to use a pug bitch and a FB stud dog. As well as a considerable difference in size (the breed standards state pugs should be 6-8kg and FBs 12.5kg so, presuming the dogs in question fit the standards, that could be a body weight discrepancy of anywhere between 50% and 100%) there's the issue of crossing a breed where the vast majority of litters are already born via section to another breed that also has an unacceptably high rate of c-sections.



> How is this different than any other mix like Collie-Shepherds, puggles, golden doodles, and countless others?


The difference between many (though not all) of those breeds who suffer from health issues is that those health issues aren't endemic within the breed because of the shape they've been bred into. Labs have a high (though now falling I believe thanks in part to breeders utilising screening schemes) rate of elbow dysplasia but that's not because they're lab shaped. It would entirely possible to have a population of dogs shaped just like labs with zero incidence of elbow dysplasia. It is simply not possible to have a population of extremely brachycephalic dogs completely free from BOAS because it is that extreme brachycephaly which causes the problem. The same goes for Brachycephalic Ocular Syndrome, Hemivertebrae, Skin Fold Dermatitis, the dental issues previously mentioned. All those problems are not hidden away within the dogs' genes like Hereditary Cataracts, PRA, Degenerative Myelopathy, etc., they're the direct result of people breeding dogs into a shape which is incompatible with perfect health.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> Should've chosen a different forum site


Excellent. May I recommend the Champdogs Forum and Website?

I'm sure you'll be warmly received there.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

danielled said:


> We're ignorant? Lol, who is it what wants to breed too brachy breeds? Not us. Don't like opinions or facts so you threaten to find another site, overreaction on your part. Why do you feel bad for our dogs. My westie is very happy and healthy.


I'm glad! Westies are adorable. I wish he/she lives a long and happy life!


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> The Brits have much more to worry about than that! Trust me


Example?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> I feel bad for your dogs.


Oh, I wouldn't.

Our dogs aren't being used as Cash Cows.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> Wow, people from the UK really suck. Should've chosen a different forum site!! Bunch of people who think they know everything. Glad I'm hundreds of miles away from such ignorant people. I feel bad for your dogs.


If this is sucking, I'm honoured. BTW at least one of the members on this thread saying no to frugs is American.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> I'm glad! Westies are adorable. I wish he/she lives a long and happy life!


Whoa hold on you just said you feel bad for our dogs. I thought you'd like to know ceiling kitty is a vet so I'd listen to her if I were you.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

This has a smell of a troll.......... Trip trot


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Rafa said:


> Oh, I wouldn't.
> 
> Our dogs aren't being used as Cash Cows.


Oh so uneducated it makes me laugh. I don't need the money. If I wanted to make more money, I would breed more and sell for more money, because I know 100% I could. I've been around unethical breeders, breeding their bitch heat after heat, only to make money. It's sad. Trust me, that's not me. Thanks for thinking you know me though


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

picaresque said:


> If this is sucking, I'm honoured. BTW at least one of the members on this thread saying no to frugs is American.


Wow, one of 300+ million Americans.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> Oh so uneducated it makes me laugh. I don't need the money. If I wanted to make more money, I would breed more and sell for more money, because I know 100% I could. I've been around unethical breeders, breeding their bitch heat after heat, only to make money. It's sad. Trust me, that's not me. Thanks for thinking you know me though


I don't need to know you dear.

The very fact that the source of your education is Google is very revealing.


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

danielled said:


> Whoa hold on you just said you feel bad for our dogs. I thought you'd like to know ceiling kitty is a vet so I'd listen to her if I were you.


I feel bad for them because they have owners who think they are educated and try to talk down to people. Nothing ever against the dogs!


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

This is a troll. Shows all the breed characteristics.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Rafa said:


> I don't need to know you dear.
> 
> The very fact that the source of your education is Google is very revealing.


And still no pictures of these miracle pugs that are oh so healthy


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Rafa said:


> I don't need to know you dear.
> 
> The very fact that the source of your education is Google is very revealing.


I have a doctorate. I don't need google. Thanks though!


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Siskin said:


> And still no pictures of these miracle pugs that are oh so healthy


Post pictures so you can bash my pups and not just the breed in general? Why would I do that?


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> Oh so uneducated it makes me laugh. I don't need the money. If I wanted to make more money, I would breed more and sell for more money, because I know 100% I could. I've been around unethical breeders, breeding their bitch heat after heat, only to make money. It's sad. Trust me, that's not me. Thanks for thinking you know me though


Now why am I having a hard time believing you, you who wants to breed 2 brachy breeds and add to the health issues.


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I am just curious as to why, in the face of so much opposition, you continue to feel the need to justify what you are doing.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Siskin said:


> Blue isn't recognised by the KC


I presume OP is in the States, given their use of the word 'tech' to describe veterinary nursing staff.


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> I am just curious as to why, in the face of so much opposition, you continue to feel the need to justify what you are doing.


I literally never said I was going to! I asked for more information? Shouldnt that be the right course of action? If I didn't care I would've just done it. That's what makes you guys so wrong.


----------



## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> Wow, one of 300+ million Americans.


And yet this one thread on a pet forum is representative of the whole United Kingdom. Actually why am I bothering :Troll


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> I feel bad for them because they have owners who think they are educated and try to talk down to people. Nothing ever against the dogs!


Because we are educated. Sniffs hmm I thought I smelt a rat errr sorry I mean troll. DNFTT.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Blue, seems to be known as "mouse" over there, isn't recognised by the AKC either.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Hey ladies and gents thank you for the likes.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

acomb1 said:


> I have a doctorate. I don't need google. Thanks though!


In what? Unless you're a vet (doubtful) any degree is as useful as a chocolate teapot


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

danielled said:


> Because we are educated. Sniffs hmm I thought I smelt a rat errr sorry I mean troll. DNFTT.


Been watching too much tv? Hello, this is reality.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Trip trap trip trap......


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> I asked for more information?


And, more information was what you received, but it wasn't what you wanted to hear, hey?


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

MiffyMoo said:


> In what? Unless you're a vet (doubtful) any degree is as useful as a chocolate teapot


I am a doctor, my mother is a vet.


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> Been watching too much tv? Hello, this is reality.


No actually.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

acomb1 said:


> I am a doctor, my mother is a vet.


I'm sure your mother must be delighted by your wonderful idea then


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm an astronaut.


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Mirandashell said:


> Trip trap trip trap......


Who is that trip trapping over the pf bridge? Buddy sniff the troll out good boy.


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Rafa said:


> And, more information was what you received, but it wasn't what you wanted to hear, hey?


Why would I care if what you have to say is negative? I'm happt for the info. I haven't bred any frugs. If I was scared of hearing negative replies I would have just not posted and went ahead with it.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Knock, knock


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I'm an astronaut.


Cute


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm happy your Mother is a Vet.

You're going to need her.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

MiffyMoo said:


> I'm sure your mother must be delighted by your wonderful idea then


She loves pugs, even more than me to be honest. It must be a UK thing to not like pugs. Or maybe your pugs there are really unhealthy so you think it is the same in the USA? Poor things


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Rafa said:


> I'm happy your Mother is a Vet.
> 
> You're going to need her.


My pugs have never needed a c section, never had any birthing complications. So many happy and healthy pug pups throughout the years. Never needed her help. Thanks though


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

acomb1 said:


> She loves pugs, even more than me to be honest. It must be a UK thing to not like pugs. Or maybe your pugs there are really unhealthy so you think it is the same in the USA? Poor things


Ask her if VIN agrees...


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> She loves pugs, even more than me to be honest. It must be a UK thing to not like pugs. Or maybe your pugs there are really unhealthy so you think it is the same in the USA? Poor things


It isn't the breed we have the issue with, it's the fact that humans did this to them by breeding and breeding and breeding well you get the idea. I have been to america as I have family living that and last year on holiday over there saw about 11 pugs all of which had trouble breathing etc.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I like pugs. I don't like the people who have created them.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Hi @acomb1 I'm in the US. 
No one here is "hating on" pugs or frenchies. The issue is breeding dogs with health issues. Ethical dog people in the US are just as much against irresponsible, ill-thought-out breeding as they are here.

You've taken a bit of a beating here (rightfully so) but I do hope you consider some of the points made. Breeding should be about producing something better than what is already out there. Our US shelters are FULL of pugs and pug crosses as they seem to be the flavor "du jour" these days. 
Please reconsider producing more dogs that really don't need to be produced.


----------



## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> My pugs have never needed a c section, never had any birthing complications. So many happy and healthy pug pups throughout the years. Never needed her help. Thanks though


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I wouldn't waste any more time on this troll.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> Wow, people from the UK really suck. Should've chosen a different forum site!! Bunch of people who think they know everything. Glad I'm hundreds of miles away from such ignorant people. I feel bad for your dogs.


and I have to say that even at hundreds of miles away you're still too close to us . 

BTW not every one here is from the UK .


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

acomb1 said:


> She loves pugs, even more than me to be honest. It must be a UK thing to not like pugs. Or maybe your pugs there are really unhealthy so you think it is the same in the USA? Poor things


You're being purposely obtuse. If your mother really is a vet, you ought to be well versed on the issues pugs and Frenchies have.

The U.K. do indeed love pugs and Frenchies (the demand for Frenchies rose 700% in 2016) much to the detriment of the breeds; unfortunately it's people who stick their head in the sand about their issues, such as you, who perpetuate bad breeding practices


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I like pugs. I don't like the people who have created them.


If you wish they weren't created, you simply do not like them. If I said I wish you weren't created, and want you to never reproduce, how could I possibly say I like you?


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

ouesi said:


> Hi @acomb1 I'm in the US.
> No one here is "hating on" pugs or frenchies. The issue is breeding dogs with health issues. Ethical dog people in the US are just as much against irresponsible, ill-thought-out breeding as they are here.
> 
> You've taken a bit of a beating here (rightfully so) but I do hope you consider some of the points made. Breeding should be about producing something better than what is already out there. Our US shelters are FULL of pugs and pug crosses as they seem to be the flavor "du jour" these days.
> Please reconsider producing more dogs that really don't need to be produced.


You worded it better than I did.


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

MiffyMoo said:


> You're being purposely obtuse. If your mother really is a vet, you ought to be well versed on the issues pugs and Frenchies have.
> 
> The U.K. do indeed love pugs and Frenchies (the demand for Frenchies rose 700% in 2016) much to the detriment of the breeds; unfortunately it's people who stick their head in the sand about their issues, such as you, who perpetuate bad breeding practices


https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/bva-campaign-cambridgeshire-pug-owner-14123836

It looks like not all people in the UK are ignorant!! You guys should learn from the woman in this article. Not all pugs have health issues. Proper breeding should be encouraged.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

acomb1 said:


> If you wish they weren't created, you simply do not like them. If I said I wish you weren't created, and want you to never reproduce, how could I possibly say I like you?


You're comparing apples and oranges. I'm talking about an entire dog breed, not an individual pug.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Siskin said:


> Knock, knock


Who's there?


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> If you wish they weren't created, you simply do not like them. If I said I wish you weren't created, and want you to never reproduce, how could I possibly say I like you?


Nobody said that they wish they weren't created, you are just twisting words now.


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> Proper breeding should be encouraged.


Yes, responsible breeding should be encouraged. 
Crossing with a frenchie of unrecognized color is not responsible, proper, ethical, or purposeful.


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

danielled said:


> You worded it better than I did.


It's not too hard to word things better than you... you seem kind of uneducated. Whatever "Who is that trip trapping over the pf bridge? Buddy sniff the troll out good boy" means. Must be a UK thing.


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

ouesi said:


> Yes, responsible breeding should be encouraged.
> Crossing with a frenchie of unrecognized color is not responsible, proper, ethical, or purposeful.


Exactly why I came to the forum for opinions. And I thank people who could do it respectfully, and not try to make false accusations about my breeding and say I'm in it for the money.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

acomb1 said:


> https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/bva-campaign-cambridgeshire-pug-owner-14123836
> 
> It looks like not all people in the UK are ignorant!! You guys should learn from the woman in this article. Not all pugs have health issues. *Proper breeding should be encouraged.*


That's what people have been saying for the past seven pages. 

ie health testing and not crossbreeding for whimsy.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Who's there?


Doctor


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Siskin said:


> Doctor


Allegedly.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Siskin said:


> Doctor


 I fell for that one! 

Doctor Who ? :Hilarious


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Allegedly.


Precisely:Hilarious


----------



## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> That's what people have been saying for the past seven pages.
> 
> ie health testing and not crossbreeding for whimsy.


Like I said previously, all my pugs are health tested, and the Frenchie I was even considering is too.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> I fell for that one!
> 
> Doctor Who ? :Hilarious


Quite:Hilarious


----------



## SpringDance (Mar 18, 2016)

Frug = mongrel with breathing problems.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

SpringDance said:


> Frug = mongrel with breathing problems.


Frugs are a disgrace to the name mongrel.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

acomb1 said:


> It's not too hard to word things better than you... you seem kind of uneducated. Whatever "Who is that trip trapping over the pf bridge? Buddy sniff the troll out good boy" means. Must be a UK thing.


It's you trip trapping over the pf bridge. You see sometimes on here we get an episode trollonation street where trolls start threads that are inflammatory. Eventually said trolls get caught.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Here you go, straight from 'Murica:

https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/170501g.aspx

https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/170301c.aspx

"The AVMA supports the responsible breeding of companion animals such that only animals without deleterious inherited disorders are selected for breeding. Companion animals exhibiting inherited characteristics that negatively affect the animal's health and welfare should not be bred, as those characteristics and related problems are likely to be passed on to their progeny. This would include inherited conditions such as brachycephalic syndrome, some joint diseases, bone deformation (e.g., radial hypoplasia 'twisty cats', munchkin), heart and eye conditions, or poor temperament (e.g., Springer rage syndrome)."


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> Wow, people from the UK really suck. Should've chosen a different forum site!! Bunch of people who think they know everything. Glad I'm hundreds of miles away from such ignorant people. I feel bad for your dogs.


Then I suggest you frug off back to where you came from and maybe stay frugged off in order to stop frugging other people off!


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

danielled said:


> It's you trip trapping over the pf bridge. You see sometimes on here we get an episode trollonation street where trolls start threads that are inflammatory. Eventually said trolls get caught.


I don't know what your obsession with trolls is, but obviously you spend a lot of time on this website. Hopefully you are nicer to other people than the way you have treated me for simply inquiring about something. Everything I said has been truthful, so whatever you mean by troll.


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Zaros said:


> Then I suggest you frug off back to where you came from and maybe stay frugged off in order to stop frugging other people off!


Wonder why your scared of Americans lol... I would be too if I were you


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> Wonder why your scared of Americans lol... I would be too if I were you


Scared of Americans? Why?


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## acomb1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Siskin said:


> Scared of Americans? Why?


Ask your friend! It's in their bio.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> Ask your friend! It's in their bio.


Actually I don't think he's afraid of anyone


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

This thread will be locked before it reaches ten pages I'm sure.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Siskin said:


> Scared of Americans? Why?


Because they have a lunatic for a President. perhaps ?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Because they have a lunatic for a President. perhaps ?


Ahhhhhh that's it in a nutshell (see what I did there)


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> This thread will be locked before it reaches ten pages I'm sure.


Oh that's shame . This is better than watching Corrie.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Sigh. It is wikipedia but here you go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll They got what a troll is about right.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Oh that's shame . This is better than watching Corrie.


It is isnt it. Rather entertaining.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

kimthecat said:


> Oh that's shame . This is better than watching Corrie.


Instead of corrie today we have trollie.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

danielled said:


> Instead of corrie today we have trollie.


Oh, good one Dan! Well done ...


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Siskin said:


> Ahhhhhh that's it in a nutshell (see what I did there)


Yes I see what you did there lol.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

danielled said:


> Instead of corrie today we have trollie.


Oh good one! Five high ! :Smuggrin


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Oh, good one Dan! Well done ...


You got it then. Sometimes in the morning we get instead of emmerdale spammerdale.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

danielled said:


> You got it then. Sometimes in the morning we get instead of emmerdale spammerdale.


You are on a roll!


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> You are on a roll!


We also get spamenders and trollie city lol.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> The Brits have much more to worry about than that! Trust me


This from a woman who lives in a Country presided over by the Racist/Sexist/Ageist Trump?

Maybe you should be worrying about that rather than applying yourself to jumping on the bandwagon and breeding pups destined to a life of illness and surgery?


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

What about trollyoaks lol.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

kimthecat said:


> Oh good one! Five high ! :Smuggrin


Troll and away lol.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> Wonder why your scared of Americans lol... I would be too if I were you


Tell me, did you come here to prove a point or just to deliberately wind up/antagonise the more principled dog owner and breeder?


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

I am just wondering why someone who is a highly educated doctor and an expert and highly respected dog breeder and who has the support of a vet has bothered asking a bunch of ignorant, ill-educated breed-bashers for their opinions in the first place?


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## Rosie64 (Feb 27, 2014)

acomb1 said:


> Obviously; however, maybe you are not a Frenchie or a Pug person, but in my opinion there are not very many negative qualities in either breed. The only negative aspects of either breed, is their susceptibility to breathing problems, in which they have in common. Otherwise, they are amazing dogs and I would be thrilled to have any qualities of either breed in the offsprings.





acomb1 said:


> I currently have 7 pugs ranging from 6 months old to 14. I've never had a pug die younger than 14. None of my pugs are in pain, or have trouble breathing


I AM a Pug person as you can see from my avatar I own one myself, and used to own a Frenchie until he passed away aged 13
and yes they are both gorgeous breeds very friendly and loving but 
if you think that breathing is the only problem these little chaps have then weather you own 7 or 70
you know very little about them. 
Breathing problems are NOT the only problem that Pugs are susceptible to. 
They are also susceptible to EYE problems, ENTROPIAN and ulcers, 
HIP DYSPLASIA, SKIN problems , and quite a few more minor things .
French Bulldogs are also prone to BREATHING PROBLEMS ,HIP DYSPLASIA , EYE ULCERS and SKIN problems 
to my reackoning that is at least 4 health problems they have in common and they are just the ones I know about from personal experience


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2018)

Rosie64 said:


> I AM a Pug person as you can see from my avatar I own one myself, and used to own a Frenchie until he passed away aged 13
> and yes they are both gorgeous breeds very friendly and loving but
> if you think that breathing is the only problem these little chaps have then weather you own 7 or 70
> you know very little about them.
> ...


Well said.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I'm an astronaut.


Good evening Commander.

I am a triple Michelin Starred Chef.

I only eat crap because my oven is on the blink.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Looks like I'm late to the party. I think pugs have fantastic little characters, but it's a great shame about all the health issues they suffer with. If you are really serious about breeding from your bitch then why not look into carefully selecting a dog to try to improve the health of the breed? One with a longer muzzle would be a good starting point.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I presume OP is in the States, given their use of the word 'tech' to describe veterinary nursing staff.


On checking the AKC Breed standard

*Color: *Acceptable colors - All brindle, fawn, white, brindle and white, and any color except those which constitute disqualification. All colors are acceptable with the exception of solid black, mouse, liver, black and tan, black and white, and white with black, which are disqualifications_. _Black means black without a trace of brindle.

Looking up Mouse its as I thought it may be the definition of Mouse is Blue-Grey

http://images.akc.org/pdf/breeds/st...6.1242216372.1516409358-1185175855.1507052938


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

acomb1 said:


> The Brits have much more to worry about than that! Trust me


Why would anyone trust you?


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Rosie64 said:


> I AM a Pug person as you can see from my avatar I own one myself, and used to own a Frenchie until he passed away aged 13
> and yes they are both gorgeous breeds very friendly and loving but
> if you think that breathing is the only problem these little chaps have then weather you own 7 or 70
> you know very little about them.
> ...


It is devastating that these poor dogs are still been bred and in such huge numbers all because people think they are cute!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Rosie64 said:


> I AM a Pug person as you can see from my avatar I own one myself, and used to own a Frenchie until he passed away aged 13
> and yes they are both gorgeous breeds very friendly and loving but
> if you think that breathing is the only problem these little chaps have then weather you own 7 or 70
> you know very little about them.
> ...


There is lots of health problems as you say Rosie

For Pugs

BVA/KC Health Schemes: www.bva.co.uk/chs

Hip dysplasia (a developmental malformation of the hip joints causing pain and disabilty): breed mean score 24.9 (parents should be much lower)
The Pug is one of the 15 high profile breeds designated by the Kennel Club as requiring particular monitoring by reason of visible conditions which may cause health and welfare concerns.
DNA Tests Available


Pug Dog Encephalitis (PDE)
Degenerative Myelopathy (DM)
Primary Lens Luxation (PLL)
May-Hegglin Anomaly (MHA)
Pyruvate Kinase Deficiency (PKD)
Unofficial (Breed Club) Schemes
X-ray for Hemivertebrae (note that parents which are radiologically clear of hemivertebra can still be carriers

Other Diseases Reported
(For which there are currently no genetic or screening tests for sire or dam)


Brachycephalic obstructive airway syndrome (BOAS) (the shortened skull and elongated palate affects the ability to breathe and exercise intolerance)
Corneal ulcerative disease
Hemivertebrae (wedge shaped vertebra - in some dogs causes hind leg weakness, spinal pain, paralysis)
Atopy (sensitivity to pollens and other protein substances, causing intense itching and sometimes skin trauma)
Skin fold dermatitis (around the tight screw tail and facial folds)
Trachael collapse
Patellar luxation (slipping kneecap)
Pigmentary keratitis (eye disease, potentially leading to blindness)
Epilepsy
Legg-Calve-Perthes disease (developmental disease of the head of the femur, causing pain and lameness)
Hypothyroid (underactivity of the thyroid gland causing lethargy, weight gain and hair loss)
Diabetes mellitus
Distichiasis (double row of eyelashes)
Dry eye (Keratoconjunctivitis sicca)
Dystocia (birthing difficulties)
Cancer: canine cutaneous histiocytoma; mast cell tumors; brain tumors
Intervertebral disc disease (causing pain, weakness or paralysis of the hind quarters)

For French bulldog
BVA/KC Health Schemes: www.bva.co.uk/chs

Hip dysplasia (malformation of the hip joint causing pain and disability): breed mean score 13.5 (parents should be lower)
Eye disease: Hereditary cataract (HC) (annual testing)
DNA Tests Available


Hereditary cataract (HC- HSF4) (early onset)
Degenerative Myelopathy (DM) (causes progressive weakness of back legs, paralysis and incontinence)
Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA-cord 1)
Hyperuricosusria (HUU)
Canine Multi-focal Retinopathy (CMR)
Unofficial (Breed Club) Schemes

Microchip identification
Veterinary examination
Patella test
Cardiologist heart test
Spine X-ray and evaluation
Other Diseases Reported
(For which there are currently no genetic or screening tests for sire or dam)


Entropion (inward turning eyelashes)
Histiocytic ulcerative colitis (inflammatory bowel disease causing chronic diarrhoea)
Patellar luxation (dislocation of kneecap)
Cancer (brain tumour)
Haemophilia (bleeding disorder)
Hemivertebrae (malformation of the spinal column, causing progressive hind leg weakness and spinal pain in some dogs)
Intervertebral disc disease (disc damage with compression of the spinal cord, often causing paralysis of the hind limbs)
Congenital deafness (associated with coat colour)
Distichiasis (double row of eyelashes causing eye irritation and pain)
Pannus (abnormal growth of tissue over cornea)
Urolithiasis (stone formation in urinary system)
Cleft lips and palates can occur
Heart disease: Pulmonic stenosis (narrowing of the pulmonary artery, with risk of heart failure)
http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/pug/

http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/french-bulldog/
More on the links


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2018)

Sairy said:


> Looks like I'm late to the party. I think pugs have fantastic little characters, but it's a great shame about all the health issues they suffer with. If you are really serious about breeding from your bitch then why not look into carefully selecting a dog to try to improve the health of the breed? One with a longer muzzle would be a good starting point.


Yes you are late lol. I was on a roll last night as you've probably seen on this thread. Good advice there from you though think OP has toddled off.


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## Rosie64 (Feb 27, 2014)

danielled said:


> Good advice there from you though think OP has toddled off.


As usual didn't like being told the truth and not willing to admit that they may be making a mistake or are wrong
In what they are planning to do


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Izzy95 said:


> These would be cross breeds,


...or, if you really want to tell it as it is, they are mongrels, pure and simple.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Seriously? Google?


Froogle might come up with something tho' . . .


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

acomb1 said:


> If you wish they weren't created, you simply do not like them. If I said I wish you weren't created, and want you to never reproduce, how could I possibly say I like you?


That isn't what she said at all. You are deliberately twisting people's words so you can argue and feel persecuted. :Troll:Troll:Troll


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

CuddleMonster said:


> a bunch of ignorant, ill-educated breed-bashers


Are you talking about Brexiteers again? You may as well, we get blamed for everything else!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Calvine said:


> *Froogle* might come up with something tho' . . .


Is that a pug x Frenchie x poodle?


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> Is that a pug x Frenchie x poodle?


Poopuchi?


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> Is that a pug x Frenchie x poodle?


Don't encourage them.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

MiffyMoo said:


> Poopuchi?


Bless you, do you need a tissue?



picaresque said:


> Don't encourage them.


I've reduced the font size so hopefully now most people can't read it!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Remember the woman who wanted to create a new breed of 'squarish dogs with a wolfish appearance?'

She was planning to use her Great Dane as her foundation bitch.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Rafa said:


> Remember the woman who wanted to create a new breed of 'squarish dogs with a wolfish appearance?'
> 
> She was planning to use her Great Dane as her foundation bitch.


Oh goodness me, yes ! Didn't we have fun suggesting combinations ? 
Wasn't an actual wolf mentioned to be introduced ?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

On another forum there was mention of someone selling flatcoats crossed with a poodle.

So Flatpoos anyone?


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Siskin said:


> On another forum there was mention of someone selling flatcoats crossed with a poodle.
> 
> So Flatpoos anyone?


Or poocoats!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

SusieRainbow said:


> Oh goodness me, yes ! Didn't we have fun suggesting combinations ?
> Wasn't an actual wolf mentioned to be introduced ?


Oh yes. She hadn't ruled out using a wolf in the mix.

And, apparently, she was going to turn all of the progeny loose on her sprawling acreage, to procreate at will.

Nobody would know where they were or what they were doing, but that didn't seem to faze her one bit.

When we asked who would feed them, she said they would feed themselves.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Rafa said:


> Oh yes. She hadn't ruled out using a wolf in the mix.
> 
> And, apparently, she was going to turn all of the progeny loose on her sprawling acreage, to procreate at will.
> 
> ...


How did I miss that thread???


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

She got really worked up when cries of congratulation weren't forthcoming.


----------



## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

MiffyMoo said:


> How did I miss that thread???


Yeah if someone could point me in the right direction, could do with some edutainment tonight.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I wouldn't mind reading that thread myself.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

MiffyMoo said:


> How did I miss that thread???


Dunno: tip me the wink if you find it!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Calvine said:


> Dunno: tip me the wink if you find it!


Your wish is my command

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/i-intend-to-breed-my-great-danes-but.361470/


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

MiffyMoo said:


> Your wish is my command
> 
> https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/i-intend-to-breed-my-great-danes-but.361470/


Twenty seven pages. I'll see you all later.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

picaresque said:


> Twenty seven pages. I'll see you all later.


That's when you know it's a cracker


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Oh I'd forgotten about that thread! Will have to have a look and give myself a good laugh!


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Rafa said:


> When we asked who would feed them, she said they would feed themselves.


On each other presumably?!!


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> Oh goodness me, yes ! Didn't we have fun suggesting combinations ?
> Wasn't an actual wolf mentioned to be introduced ?


I was on a roll last night not suggesting breed combinations though. Ask anybody lol, or you could have a look. Corrie was replaced with trollie.

On another note. How has this thread stayed open mods?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

danielled said:


> On another note. How has this thread stayed open mods?


Why should it be closed?

There's nothing amiss.


----------



## Guest (Jan 20, 2018)

Rafa said:


> Why should it be closed?
> 
> There's nothing amiss.


You know, the possible trollienation street thing going on here? Wasn't suggesting it should be closed just wondered how it was still open.


----------



## Guest (Jan 20, 2018)

simplysardonic said:


> Bless you, do you need a tissue?
> 
> I've reduced the font size so hopefully now most people can't read it!


Well actually there is one little fact I forgot to mention, I can enlarge things by moving 2 fingers a certain way on my ipad.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

danielled said:


> Wasn't suggesting it should be closed just wondered how it was still open


Well, if it hasn't been closed, of course it's still open.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I can't see any good reason to close it .


----------



## Guest (Jan 20, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> I can't see any good reason to close it .


I can't either yet but was just amazed the thread is still going especially with OPs rude responses. Apparrantly we in the uk suck lol.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

If no one reports something then us mods usually presume everyone participating is fine with the status quo


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2018)

simplysardonic said:


> If no one reports something then us mods usually presume everyone participating is fine with the status quo


Fair enough. Plus we were pretty much joking around and I was cracking jokes borrowing some tv soaps names lol.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> If no one reports something then us mods usually presume everyone participating is fine with the status quo


As Rick Parfitt has decided to leave us, I wouldn't have said the status Quo was fine anymore.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I don't think it was his decision.


----------



## Guest (Jan 22, 2018)

Mirandashell said:


> I don't think it was his decision.


Well it says junior member under OP's username.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

danielled said:


> Well it says junior member under OP's username.


I meant Rick Parfitt.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> I don't think it was his decision.


Ultimately, no but I think some of his earlier "lifestyle" choices played a part (if rumours are to be believed)


----------



## Guest (Jan 22, 2018)

Mirandashell said:


> I meant Rick Parfitt.


Oh right my apologies.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Rafa said:


> Well, if it hasn't been closed, of course it's still open.


And to take this post even further off course, I just realised you're Sweety! I've been reading your posts feeling like I knew you, but didn't recognise your name....


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

MiffyMoo said:


> And to take this post even further off course, I just realised you're Sweety! I've been reading your posts feeling like I knew you, but didn't recognise your name....


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

MiffyMoo said:


> And to take this post even further off course, I just realised you're Sweety! I've been reading your posts feeling like I knew you, but didn't recognise your name....


Don't worry, I thought there was something up with my iPad and the name had somehow got messed up. Lullabydream and me had a convo about it cos I got really worried about my iPad.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Rafa said:


>


It would have helped if I'd looked at your avatar or footer photos as well. So many fails


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

I was getting a bit confused! I thought you had a twin. Why the change?


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Lurcherlad said:


> Ultimately, no but I think some of his earlier "lifestyle" choices played a part (if rumours are to be believed)


I thought he had a pretty long innings for a rocker! Most of them die a lot earlier.


----------



## SpicyBulldog (Jun 30, 2012)

MiffyMoo said:


> And to take this post even further off course, I just realised you're Sweety! I've been reading your posts feeling like I knew you, but didn't recognise your name....


I realize this from the avatar, I recognize people by avatar foremost. It rally throws me off when people change the avatar pics lol who's that wait uh oh ok not a new member


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

MiffyMoo said:


> I've been reading your posts feeling like I knew you, but didn't recognise your name....


Me too, then it was the dog that I noticed!


----------

