# please help - poorly fish!



## avons82 (Mar 23, 2010)

please help, my gold fish has been poorly for a while now, but nothing ive tried is helping and he looks worse! A few months ago when I set up my new tank (and admittedly I didnt introduce the fish gradually) one of my fish started bobbing and floating around the top of the tank.

Thinking it was swimbladder disease I bought a treatment for the water. This didnt seem to help him. I bought some water testing kits and found the amonia / nitrate levels to be high so treated with stress zyme and stress coat and have been doing regular water changes.

The test kits are showing the water is now fine, but the fish is getting worse.

Now he has blood streaks in his fins and red blood patches near his top fin. Hes still spending a lot of time floating at the top of the tank.

Please help.. could it now be a bacterial infection or fin rot?

I want to help save him!

Thanks so much... Amey

I can try get a pic if it helps....


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2010)

Read streaking in the fins (particularly the Dorsal and Caudal fins) is a sign of ammonia poisoning. This would also explain the apparent lethargic behaviour, is the fish gasping at the surface?

Adding treatments won't help until you get down the root of the problem. Chemicals are a temporary solution if there is an underlying problem, then the symptoms will return again and again. You say that the water quality's fine, have you checked the use-by-dates on the test reagent bottles? The chemicals inside the bottles do go out of the date and due to their chemical makeup, have a relatively short shelf-life. I would get another test kit and obtain the readings again.

We will also need some info on the tank, including the size (dimensions or volume will do) and whether or not it has a cycled filter. Finally, are there any other fish in the tank?

In the meantime, carry out several large water changes (using dechlorinated water) and cut out the food for a few days.


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## avons82 (Mar 23, 2010)

hi, just done a water test now with san API 5in1 strip. results are:

GH - 180
KH - 30
ph - 7
No2 - 0
No3 - 60-180 (should this be this high??)

There are 6 fish, one black moor, 2 large goldfish with long tails and 3 gold fish with short tails (sorry Im not that up on my species!)

Theyre in a 60L biorb tank which was set up in December '09. Im not sure what filter it has - it doesnt say on their website....

Ive been using API stress coat and stress zyme plus interpet swimbladder treatment sporadically.

theres just plastic plants in the tank.

Tje other long tailed fish looks like he may have some subtle blood streaking in his tail - its difficult to see as hes deep orange...

Hope this helps - tried getting some pics of him but its quite difficult - this is the best one...

Thanks so much, amey


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

If my maths is right you are seriously overcrowded.

Goldfish need a lot of space and are real dirty fish.

Think you have far too many in a 60l.


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## avons82 (Mar 23, 2010)

oh no! I just transferred them from a smaller tank half the size so thought this would be perfect for them!


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2010)

As Deb has said, the tank is GROSSLY overstocked. The tank is barely big enough for one small fancy goldfish (i.e a single fantail), the larger common varieties should really be in a pond. It also isn't a good idea to mix common and fancy goldfish in the same tank. 

The filtration system (an air-powered undergravel with the coarse, alfagrog media at the bottom of the tank) is hardly capable of dealing with the massive amount of nitrogenous and solid waste produced by these fish.

You really need to obtain a liquid master test kit and throw the test-strips in the trash, as they are notoriously unreliable. Any test kit that you do buy should include a test reagent for Ammonia (NH3). I do think you'll be rather shocked at the results.

The only long-term solution is either to obtain a very big tank or a pond, or give the fish away to other aquarists. In terms of tank sizes, you should be looking at around 150 litres for three fancy goldfish and around 450 litres for three common goldfish as a sensible minimum.


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## Fishyfins (Feb 28, 2009)

As the others have said, the problems here are highly likely being caused by the gross overstocking of the tank. fancy goldfish (moors, orandas and the like) need absolute minimum of 40L per fish, and as they are a social fish and dont like being kept alone, your gonna need space for 2 or 3 of them, which adds up to 120L, absolute bare minimum!
as for your standard, single tailed goldfish (comets, shubunkins etc...), they are even more of a problem, requiring 90L of space per fish, much more for 2 or 3 of them. also, with these fish being highly active, you also need to provide them lots of swiming room, so that can add another 100L or so to the overall size needed, so a tank somewhere in the region of 450L as Pleccy says is not over the top, though they would prefere a pond.

also, its not a good idea to mix the two types in the same tank due to issues of the latter out competing the former for food.

one way or another, your either gonna have to get 2 seperate huge tanks, or pass half the fish on to someone else, and just get yourself one big tank!


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## avons82 (Mar 23, 2010)

crikey what size roughly in feet would a larger tank need to be?

I know the different types shouldnt be living together but they have done for the past 6years so maybe just a bigger tank would help my problems!?

Would the fish (single tailed) be ok in an outside pond? Not too cold for them after being indoors for so many years??

thanks : ) amey


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## Fishyfins (Feb 28, 2009)

if you put the regular, standard goldfish in an outside pond (which should be ok, especially as its summer), then the fancies will probably require a tank about 3-4ft long? do you have/can you get a photo of your fish? just so we can see for sure what types they are, and know best what sorta size were looking at?
if you dont remove the larger fish to a pond, then the tank would have to eb something around 8ft long 0_0


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## avons82 (Mar 23, 2010)

will the outdoors ones be ok in the winter too?

hope you can see on these pics - the best ones I have on me.... theres 3 light orange single tailed ones, one black moor and one large orange with floaty tail and the poorley one, also large with floaty tail.

thanks! : )


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## Fishyfins (Feb 28, 2009)

from what i can see there, all but the black moor will be fine in the pond, all year round. goldfish are typically a pond fish anyway, and as long as they are introduced between april and september (when its warm), they should be ok, then they will gradually harden to the temperature as it falls in the autumn. 

the only fish that cant go in the pond would be the moor, as fancy goldfish like that are not able to survive the winters. you'll need at least another 1 or 2 of these though, as they dont like being alone, and you'll need a tank about 100-150L


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