# HELP ME!!



## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Hello, 
I am new here so Hi every one  

I have got a Patterjack called Muddy Waters, and he is 8mths old and is STUPID, I mean like really stupid, dull, VERY hyper, and boisterous. I have had him since he was about 6-7wks old. It took about a week to teach him to sit, just over a week to teach him to Lay down, and just under a week to give paws. thats about as far as I have got with him because he gets way too excited with me and tries to hump my arm if we have any us time. 

My partner just brought home his Daughters 13mths old Chihuahua Romeo to live with us. Now I am new to chihuahua's, but have always wanted one, but could never afford one as they are pricey. But as Romeo has been living with someone else for the first year of his life, he is over pampered. And it is showing already. 

So my Question is this: as Muddy loves the mud and dirty stuff (animal poo) and Romeo just want's to be cuddled and fussed, can I split them up? Will Muddy turn if the new dog is being held and fussed? Muddy doesn't want the pampered kind of life style he is just not interested at all, if it doesn't smell of dead foxes he snubs his nose up at it. and Muddy is very much an outdoor dog, he live's in 'his' garden and sleeps in the kitchen and is very settled. And he isn't bothered with this new dog turning up and being in his space at all. He wants to play and bounce but the chihuahua is looking at him stupid......

Help me please thank you x


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't think your dog Is stupid at all he learned to sit in a week another week to lay down and just under another week to give paw that's not a stupid dog some pups take a lot longer than that at 8 months he is in his teenage phase he will get excited and hump at that age Has he been to puppy classes at all if not he needs to 
As for the Chi dogs take time to get used to each other If Romeo has been pampered then it will take a while for the little dog to get used to the new household Patience I would think is needed


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Couple of queries, I don’t quite understand and I think before this thread escalates it might be good to understand what you mean.

What do you mean by split them up? Rehome one of them?
Do you understand that they are different breeds with different traits?
How are you training Muddy?
What exactly is the outcome you want here? It sounds like Muddy is coping very well with a new dog, good for him.

In the meantime, Muddy is just eight months and dare I say it but you’re a bit stupid yourself for expecting so much from a little one. Hopefully someone can post you some links on teaching impulse control and managing your doggy in a nice, positive way.
Also read the links in finding a trainer or behaviourist in the stickies above.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Just wondering what food you might have Muddy on and whether this is adding to his hyper ness.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

MollySmith said:


> Couple of queries, I don't quite understand and I think before this thread escalates it might be good to understand what you mean.
> 
> What do you mean by split them up? Rehome one of them?
> Do you understand that they are different breeds with different traits?
> ...


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

My last dog was fully trained within the space of a week by myself, no help nor use of classes. And that was..... house trained, sit, lay, beg, play dead, sneak, stay, don't touch (leaving a treat on the floor and telling him don't touch), get down, and walking by my side on a lead and off a lead. he was only 12weeks old at the time. 
training Muddy: in a room with nothing on and no busy window passers, before food, with his fav treats, and one on one time, repeating which ever thing I am training him to do, i.e.: we done ''sit'' till he done it with no treat as a reward, he also now does it by following hand gestures.
And yes Muddy is getting along with the new dog just fine. but the new dog wants comforts and warmth, and Muddy is like a ''scrap yard dog'' will lay anywhere or in anything, is always outdoors, and has been brought up to be an outdoor dog. Where as Romeo isn't. Romeo is used to be in doors and kept in comforts from his previous owner(s). He is always shaking and is getting snappy towards Muddys hyperness. I don't want Muddy to turn snappy copying Romeo, and I don't want to risk making Romeo bad as he's not used to the cold.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Firedog said:


> Just wondering what food you might have Muddy on and whether this is adding to his hyper ness.


Muddy is on dry bakers complete for puppies. one bowl a day normally in the evening after walks and treats and tricks, bath food left out the kitchen. 
Romeo is turning his nose up at that food so will have to find something different.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Um...most dogs do NOT train fully in the space of a week. You got lucky, simple as that. Most dogs are a work in progress for at least the first couple of years and a patterdale mix isn't exactly going to be the most "your wish is my command" type of dog in the first place. I would lower your expectations of how quickly he should learn things massively for a start. To me he sounds like a very normal adolescent terrorist.

If you're having hyperactivity problems then the very first thing I'd do is switch from Bakers, it's likely the first bit of advice any decent trainer or behaviourist would give too.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

You have a very high energy terrier on your hands and I think this is very much a case of not having a fair understanding of the breeds involved in your dog's mix. The fact you taught your dog sit, down etc in the space of a week is great! certainly doesn't indicate you have a 'dumb' dog, and the two breeds in your dog's mix are far from dumb and are exceptionally intelligent. Terriers oftwn get labelled 'stubborn' or unintelligent IME and it's usually as a result of an owner just not understanding what makes their dog tick so to speak. They are not handler dependant like most other breeds, and they can get very bored with repetition and 'simple' exercises. You will actually find that once you have found what your dog really wants to work for, he's as bright as a button and will LOVE using his brain. All dogs are different and learn at different paces, so you can't compare him to your previous dog.

In regards to separating both dogs, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Both dogs I'm sure can live quite happily together despite their differences in personality, as long as neither has dog issues and/or the youngster is not allowed to harass the Chi. It's just a case of devoting time to each of them and tailoring that time to what they enjoy best, so might mean lots of snuggles for the Chi, but a good old long walk and training session with your youngsters to work his brain.

Bakers is considered a poor quality diet and is often thought to increase hyperactivity and 'manic' type behaviours, so I'd be looking at swapping him to a better quality diet to help improve his overall energy/behaviour.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

A stupid terrier? I think he's probably outsmarting you, but you haven't realised yet .


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Romeo&beast said:


> My last dog was fully trained within the space of a week by myself, no help nor use of classes. And that was..... house trained, sit, lay, beg, play dead, sneak, stay, don't touch (leaving a treat on the floor and telling him don't touch), get down, and walking by my side on a lead and off a lead. he was only 12weeks old at the time.
> training Muddy: in a room with nothing on and no busy window passers, before food, with his fav treats, and one on one time, repeating which ever thing I am training him to do, i.e.: we done ''sit'' till he done it with no treat as a reward, he also now does it by following hand gestures.
> And yes Muddy is getting along with the new dog just fine. but the new dog wants comforts and warmth, and Muddy is like a ''scrap yard dog'' will lay anywhere or in anything, is always outdoors, and has been brought up to be an outdoor dog. Where as Romeo isn't. Romeo is used to be in doors and kept in comforts from his previous owner(s). He is always shaking and is getting snappy towards Muddys hyperness. I don't want Muddy to turn snappy copying Romeo, and I don't want to risk making Romeo bad as he's not used to the cold.


:Facepalm :Facepalm:Troll


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Gemmaa said:


> A stupid terrier? I think he's probably outsmarting you, but you haven't realised yet .


Have a green blob. 

Gotta love a dog that's smart enough to make its owner think it's thick... Milly has that trick down to a fine art! :Hilarious


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> You have a very high energy terrier on your hands and I think this is very much a case of not having a fair understanding of the breeds involved in your dog's mix. The fact you taught your dog sit, down etc in the space of a week is great! certainly doesn't indicate you have a 'dumb' dog, and the two breeds in your dog's mix are far from dumb and are exceptionally intelligent. Terriers oftwn get labelled 'stubborn' or unintelligent IME and it's usually as a result of an owner just not understanding what makes their dog tick so to speak. They are not handler dependant like most other breeds, and they can get very bored with repetition and 'simple' exercises. You will actually find that once you have found what your dog really wants to work for, he's as bright as a button and will LOVE using his brain. All dogs are different and learn at different paces, so you can't compare him to your previous dog.
> 
> In regards to separating both dogs, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Both dogs I'm sure can live quite happily together despite their differences in personality, as long as neither has dog issues and/or the youngster is not allowed to harass the Chi. It's just a case of devoting time to each of them and tailoring that time to what they enjoy best, so might mean lots of snuggles for the Chi, but a good old long walk and training session with your youngsters to work his brain.
> 
> Bakers is considered a poor quality diet and is often thought to increase hyperactivity and 'manic' type behaviours, so I'd be looking at swapping him to a better quality diet to help improve his overall energy/behaviour.


Thank you, 
I will change the Bakers straight away. I soooooo didn't think of the food to be totally honest. 
and I was wondering about cuddling the Chi and not cuddling the Patterjack. These are two dogs I would never have paired either.

As for separating them:
Muddy has the backdoor open till about 10pm and is very much the protector of the house and seems to thrive from being a typical boy dog. And by the ''stupid'' comment, I meant that in the way, for example: "he will run in to the french doors slam up against it shake it off and do it again and again and again, not learning lol" type of way. 
Romeo seems to be unsettled without a quilt and just a normal dog bed. I brought him in for a little one on one time and he went straight for my quilt and snuggled in and fell asleep. I then bathed him and took him back out to the kitchen so Muddy would think that I took him out to bath him, so I then bathed Muddy so he didn't feel left out.

I am also not used to JackRussels or Patterdales, so the mix of both breeds is a little confusing to me. I have done some research on him and made him a rat on a stick which he loves to chase, and would chase it for hours on end if given half a chance.
Both of these dogs are rescued from people who can't look after dogs, so I was advised to try a forum to get some advise and help. I am more used to German shepherds and Labradors. So excuse the sounding a little dumb at times


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

LinznMilly said:


> Have a green blob.
> 
> Gotta love a dog that's smart enough to make its owner think it's thick... Milly has that trick down to a fine art! :Hilarious


Have to admit, I always wondered with Rupert lol. I think it was just the way he learned though rather than him being thick. If he saw the point of something (like unlocking a gate or pressing the button to wind the car window down) then he learned it super quick. But obedience cues? 2 years to teach him to lie down on cue...


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> Have a green blob.
> 
> Gotta love a dog that's smart enough to make its owner think it's thick... Milly has that trick down to a fine art! :Hilarious


Muddy is daft, He never seems to learns. When he does something that hurts him he goes back to try to again, like walking along the canal, he still mans up to the swans. They hiss at him and go for him and he goes in for more. He also squares up to tribes of dogs with no fear. He always runs into the french doors all the time. yelps half the time but goes in for more lol


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

He's a terrier, they're not bred to back down from things. 

If you want to train him I'd honestly look at getting the book "When Pigs Fly" which is aimed at exactly that sort of dog.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> Muddy is on dry bakers complete for puppies. one bowl a day normally in the evening after walks and treats and tricks, bath food left out the kitchen.
> Romeo is turning his nose up at that food so will have to find something different.


No wonder is is hyper, but you know being hyper isn't Muddy's fault, no it's not it's just not, it is purinas fault. Bakers is the worst or one of the worst foods you can feed a dog. All those e numbers enough to send any dog bouncing off the walls. Have a look at the dry and wet dog food index's in dog health and nutrition. That will help you chose a decent food.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Romeo&beast said:


> My last dog was fully trained within the space of a week by myself, no help nor use of classes. And that was..... house trained, sit, lay, beg, play dead, sneak, stay, don't touch (leaving a treat on the floor and telling him don't touch), get down, and walking by my side on a lead and off a lead. he was only 12weeks old at the time.
> training Muddy: in a room with nothing on and no busy window passers, before food, with his fav treats, and one on one time, repeating which ever thing I am training him to do, i.e.: we done ''sit'' till he done it with no treat as a reward, he also now does it by following hand gestures.
> And yes Muddy is getting along with the new dog just fine. but the new dog wants comforts and warmth, and Muddy is like a ''scrap yard dog'' will lay anywhere or in anything, is always outdoors, and has been brought up to be an outdoor dog. Where as Romeo isn't. Romeo is used to be in doors and kept in comforts from his previous owner(s). He is always shaking and is getting snappy towards Muddys hyperness. I don't want Muddy to turn snappy copying Romeo, and I don't want to risk making Romeo bad as he's not used to the cold.


All dogs are unique. All my dogs are different. Molly is my first lead reactive dog, but doesn't mean she's stupid, she needs support and if you're looking for that and some good options on how to train and look after a new dog then welcome. If you're after an excuse to get rid of Muddy then you're not 

Muddy sounds like he has been through a lot in his little life and do keep in mind that he was an outdoor dog, he's presumably been rescued by you and now has another dog to content with. Try for a few moments to equate that to your life - imagine it for a moment and then have some empathy for your dog for handling all this and forgive him.

Are you keeping them both outside? It might be easier to house train Muddy and think about crate training but please do consider classes and professional help. Some dog you just need that. I didn't think I would need a behaviourist ever but we did. It's very arrogant to assume you're always right. You've asked for help, that's my advice. A pet forum that has never met your dog and is unlikely to ever meet the dogs, cannot really help you but a professional with positive training would probably find Muddy a dream to train. It maybe that your technique just isn't right and you're loosing heart and getting impatient which is stressing him out and you're just going around in circles. What is the harm in trying? You might both learn something.

Bakers is crap, my grandparents dogs were always hyper and had health problems on it. I found a direct link to food and my dog's behaviour. She's now on Bob and Lush but we found good results with James Wellbeloved. Good on Romeo for rejecting it.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Have to admit, I always wondered with Rupert lol. I think it was just the way he learned though rather than him being thick. If he saw the point of something (like unlocking a gate or pressing the button to wind the car window down) then he learned it super quick. But obedience cues? 2 years to teach him to lie down on cue...


Milly took about 6 months to learn lie down, and about 10mins to learn Leave It 

I daren't teach her to open doors - brat dog would take a nanosecond to figure out that a similar technique could be used to open the dog food cupboard!! AND come up with the method on her own. :Hilarious


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

He's a terrier , awesome dogs and very clever .

What was your first dog ? Sounds like some sort of super dog to be trained in all them things in a week 

Have you tried clicker training him ?

Another book you perhaps you would like to read , may give you some idea about terrier ways

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Terrier-Centric-Training-Tenacious-Tremendous-Dogwise/dp/1617810770


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

MollySmith said:


> All dogs are unique. All my dogs are different. Molly is my first lead reactive dog, but doesn't mean she's stupid, she needs support and if you're looking for that and some good options on how to train and look after a new dog then welcome. If you're after an excuse to get rid of Muddy then you're not
> 
> Muddy sounds like he has been through a lot in his little life and do keep in mind that he was an outdoor dog, he's presumably been rescued by you and now has another dog to content with. Try for a few moments to equate that to your life - imagine it for a moment and then have some empathy for your dog for handling all this and forgive him.
> 
> ...


I have lost heart with Muddy  but with saying that, I am at present trying them both in the living room to see how Muddy will behave, he normally runs riots all around the tops of the furniture and so forth. Attacking me as well. But he now seems to be following Romeo's lead and just laying down with him. I accidentally changed his food today without knowing about the bakers, they had no bakers there so just got a small cheap box of biscuits as a temp'. 
I wouldn't go for the crate option, never have had to use a crate before not going to start now. 
I also don't assume I am always right as I have stated previously that I am new to owning a jack and a chi. Hence the asking and replying. 
Would the chi adapt to being and outdoor dog all of a sudden after being a pampered spoilt comfort dog with quilts and warmth?


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

paddyjulie said:


> He's a terrier , awesome dogs and very clever .
> 
> What was your first dog ? Sounds like some sort of super dog to be trained in all them things in a week
> 
> ...


My other dog was a lab x boarder collie, a mixed breed of two intelligent dogs. He was very very eager to learn and loved doing tricks got so comfortable doing his tricks that he would rush and do them all in one go before being commanded to do so. He never chewed the the furniture or wrecked any part of the house while being a puppy. He was content and settled.
I sat with him all day every day for just about a week straight, and it was done. Still wanted to continue doing his tricks when he got too old to do them.

I am not incapable of training a dog, my last dog was perfectly trained, and have helped many others with training their dogs in the past. A fair few people have commented to me about having a jack, and have told me that even if I get him done, he still won't calm down, and won't calm for the best part of three to four years. But I am now going to try another food as so many here are against the bakers complete. 
so lets hope the change in diet makes a difference...


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> Would the chi adapt to being and outdoor dog all of a sudden after being a pampered spoilt comfort dog with quilts and warmth?


Why do you want the Chihuahua to be an outside dog?


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Why do you want the Chihuahua to be an outside dog?


I don't, thats why I asked about separating them..... I gave a little description of both dogs, and seeing whats the best to do? having one out door mud loving scrap yard dog, and an indoor pampered chi. I don't know of an outdoor Chi. But my jack loves the garden and mud.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Romeo&beast said:


> *I have lost heart with Muddy*  but with saying that, I am at present trying them both in the living room to see how Muddy will behave, he normally runs riots all around the tops of the furniture and so forth. Attacking me as well. But he now seems to be following Romeo's lead and just laying down with him. I accidentally changed his food today without knowing about the bakers, they had no bakers there so just got a small cheap box of biscuits as a temp'.
> I wouldn't go for the crate option, never have had to use a crate before not going to start now.
> I also don't assume I am always right as I have stated previously that I am new to owning a jack and a chi. Hence the asking and replying.
> Would the chi adapt to being and outdoor dog all of a sudden after being a pampered spoilt comfort dog with quilts and warmth?


Sometimes you need a stranger to see the good in your dog.

Mine isn't a terrier but I do remember being at work and dreading going home to see what chaos my dog had created. She didn't chew or anything - never has - but was just so hyper. A behaviourist helped us to focus that energy and teach us how to teach Molly to remain calm. We learned loads of impulse control work with a clicker, how to use pauses in tuggy games, teaching her an emergency down that helps when she got mad zoomies that always ended up with me or my husband cornered and being barked at.... lots of things. We now do scent work which completely focuses her energy. Honestly do please get some help - it completely changed our relationship with our dog and so much for the better and it was worth every single penny.

We think we know so much about dogs, I really thought I did but each dog, like I said, is unique and we as humans must also adapt. Luckily for us there are those out there who specialise in this and give us a frame work to work with. Think of Muddy as a new learning curve, with help you can enjoy him - he sounds like a great character that just needs a bit of polishing.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Romeo&beast said:


> Thank you,
> I will change the Bakers straight away. I soooooo didn't think of the food to be totally honest.
> and I was wondering about cuddling the Chi and not cuddling the Patterjack. These are two dogs I would never have paired either.
> 
> ...


Just make sure with the change of food you do it gradually otherwise your dog may end up with a bad stomach but I'm sure you know that anyway.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Romeo&beast said:


> Muddy is on dry bakers complete for puppies. one bowl a day normally in the evening after walks and treats and tricks, bath food left out the kitchen.
> Romeo is turning his nose up at that food so will have to find something different.


and here in lies your hyper problem. Bakers is crammed full of nonsense, colourings, sugars, carcinogens.
Any one who expects any dog, let alone a terrier to be " fully trained" within a week, knows nowt about training Imo. You need to find out what makes ya dog tick, if he's not learning, its not because he's "stupid" but because your methods are uninteresting to him.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

From the training page
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/...ention-or-are-obsessed-with-other-dogs.18620/

The dry food dog index with a link to the wet food one. 
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/the-dry-dog-food-index.189896/

How to find a behaviourist or trainer
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/what-to-look-for-in-a-trainer-or-behaviourist.97249/

Another useful training thread
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/training-impulse-control.297991/

_Bones Would Rain From The Sky_ 

The Other End of The Leash, McConnell 

_The Culture-Clash_, Donaldson


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Are you in the UK @Romeo&beast? I only ask because in some cultures/countries dogs being kept outdoors is perhaps more the norm than it is here in the UK and you seem to mention this a few times.

I wouldn't expect a Chi to live outside predominately, no. And just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if it's the case your terrier is mostly living outside whether some of the hyperactivity you see is because of that. In the sense he's _super_ excited and OTT in spending time with you that he _seems_ impossible to get a handle on as such? I mean, I don't know how much time is spent with him on a daily basis? But if you only tend to him when you're walking him, or otherwise seeing to his daily needs it could be he's just simply anticipating these times and getting himself super duper wound up....and then that of course doesn't make for good concentration during training sessions.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Also don't forget he is only a baby still, at 8 months mine was still doing zoomies around the furniture (and I mean wall of death speed along the back of the sofa/bounce on the floor/up on to the other sofa and round in circles) at that age. 

I can remember my first dog was a german shepherd and the bees knees for picking things up really quickly, learning the names of all the toys in his box and without fail bringing me the one I asked for etc etc. After he died we got our first rottie and boy was he different, I do remember wondering if he was thick until a lovely lady who later became our trainer told me to get off of my high horse and learn to adapt my methods to suit my dog and find something we would enjoy doing together. Stop comparing him to your last dog, he is not your last dog.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> I don't, thats why I asked about separating them..... I gave a little description of both dogs, and seeing whats the best to do? having one out door mud loving scrap yard dog, and an indoor pampered chi. I don't know of an outdoor Chi. But my jack loves the garden and mud.


I don't understand the issue, I'm sorry, I feel like I'm really missing something here. If one likes being inside, let him stay inside, if one prefers being outside and can be outside safely, then let him stay outside.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Romeo&beast said:


> I have had him since he was about 6-7wks old.





Romeo&beast said:


> Both of these dogs are rescued from people who can't look after dogs, so I was advised to try a forum to get some advise and help.


You rescued both dogs? Yet you say you had the Patt x Jack from 6-7wks? Can you confirm?



Romeo&beast said:


> He was very very eager to learn and loved doing tricks got so comfortable doing his tricks that he would rush and do them all in one go before being commanded to do so


Some breeds are people-pleasers. Some are more independently minded. Doesn't make one intelligent and the other "dumb".


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

I


LinznMilly said:


> You rescued both dogs? Yet you say you had the Patt x Jack from 6-7wks? Can you confirm?
> 
> Some breeds are people-pleasers. Some are more independently minded. Doesn't make one intelligent and the other "dumb".


 saw a pic of the PatterJack up on fb from old neighbours of mine ''look at my new puppy''. the last time those people had a dog it was left to rome the streets and was fed human food instead of dog food, spent most of its time over my house till they lost it. So I begged them to give him to me. They did for a small price.
The chi was a gift for a child for last christmas, he was;t getting on well with the other dogs that already lived there, and was pretty much left on its own in an attached garage. His eye is all weepy and his claws need trimming.

he is very ''flinchy'' and scared looking. but in all fairness he is coming out of shell a lot. And after reading up on chi's from a link from a friend, it is clear that they don't like the cold so he will have to stay as an indoor dog, so I will have to retrain the other dog to be an indoor dog. And in all fairness to the paterjack he seem to be copying the chi already and looking to just cwtch up instead of run wild.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

It was a figure of speech saying that he is "stupid", he is stupid, as in falls over his own feet, runs in to doors, never learns for doing things that hurt him. Has to keep trying at it. The question was about keeping them separate. As one dog lives here and is an outdoor dog and the other is a new dog but is an indoor dog . . . I just gave a little detail on both dogs!


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Romeo&beast said:


> I don't, thats why I asked about separating them..... I gave a little description of both dogs, and seeing whats the best to do? having one out door mud loving scrap yard dog, and an indoor pampered chi. I don't know of an outdoor Chi. But my jack loves the garden and mud.


Why is this a problem? I don't get it. Let Muddy spend all the time he wants out side safely and let Romeo stay inside. I see no problem with letting each dog live in the way he is most comfortable.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Mine are complete opposites and rarely even acknowledge the existence of the other. As long as they are both happy I can't see the problem either.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

@lorilu @Jobeth
I give up! 
I don't want Muddy to feel left out or turn nasty because he's outside and the other dog is inside. 
Muddy has always been here, Romeo is new.
Romeo doesn't like to be cold, Muddy doesn't mind the cold.
Romeo has been allowed on the sofa in his previous home, Muddy isn't allowed in the living room at all.
Muddy has the run of the kitchen with the back door constantly open. Romeo likes pillows and blankets and warmth.
Two completely different dogs that have been brought together through no fault of their own and which was totally unplanned.

The problem is treating them differently. If they were both here from pups at the same time they would have been trained to be indoor dogs, but as they weren't then I have to think fast about what to do.....


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

if muddy likes it outside then let him be outside, if two different dogs have different needs then it's okay to provide for them differently, but just make sure to remember to give muddy some of your time, perhaps he will want to be inside more if he gets along well with the new dog, and you could work on training him indoors if he seems to want that. personally I don't understand why you would let one dog in the living room and on furniture but not the other, maybe if you give them both the option to come in and out as they please then you will see what they both want to do now there are two of them especially if they form a bond they might both enjoy playing and sniffing about out in the garden during the day and coming inside in the evenings.

I wouldn't over think it too much tbh, dogs don't think the same as us, if one dog isn't keen on being indoors he won't be upset that the other dog is indoors


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Romeo&beast said:


> @lorilu @Jobeth
> I give up!
> I don't want Muddy to feel left out or turn nasty because he's outside and the other dog is inside.
> Muddy has always been here, Romeo is new.
> ...


So long as they're both getting the attention they need and want, and so as long as Muddy is out because he wants to be out and can be out safely, I wouldn't bother trying to change him into something he's not tbh. I do get wanting them to have the same because if Milly has a treat, I don't like leaving Max out, but if I offer one, and he doesn't want it, I'm not going to stop Mill from taking it without a good reason.

Likewise, if Max decides he doesn't want to go for a walk (by hiding under the bed, for example), I'm not going to force him. His choice. He faces the consequences of doing without.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

If you don't have a problem with one being on the sofa, then let Muddy come into the living room. He might love being there or you might find he'd rather be outside. My dogs would hate to be treated the same as they are individuals.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

redroses2106 said:


> if muddy likes it outside then let him be outside, if two different dogs have different needs then it's okay to provide for them differently, but just make sure to remember to give muddy some of your time, perhaps he will want to be inside more if he gets along well with the new dog, and you could work on training him indoors if he seems to want that. personally I don't understand why you would let one dog in the living room and on furniture but not the other, maybe if you give them both the option to come in and out as they please then you will see what they both want to do now there are two of them especially if they form a bond they might both enjoy playing and sniffing about out in the garden during the day and coming inside in the evenings.
> 
> I wouldn't over think it too much tbh, dogs don't think the same as us, if one dog isn't keen on being indoors he won't be upset that the other dog is indoors





Jobeth said:


> If you don't have a problem with one being on the sofa, then let Muddy come into the living room. He might love being there or you might find he'd rather be outside. My dogs would hate to be treated the same as they are individuals.





Jobeth said:


> If you don't have a problem with one being on the sofa, then let Muddy come into the living room. He might love being there or you might find he'd rather be outside. My dogs would hate to be treated the same as they are individuals.


what I said was and I quote .... "Romeo has been allowed on the sofa in his previous home, Muddy isn't allowed in the living room at all.''


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

> So my Question is this: as Muddy loves the mud and dirty stuff (animal poo) and Romeo just want's to be cuddled and fussed, can I split them up? Will Muddy turn if the new dog is being held and fussed? Muddy doesn't want the pampered kind of life style he is just not interested at all.


Different strokes for different folks. I doubt that Muddy will care if the Chi is pampered so long as his needs are met too. Chi's don't have to be pampered though ..they're not as delicate as some people would wish. Our friends Chi runs with our Labs. All dogs can be trained to settle though and i would work on this with Muddy so he can join you all in the lounge. And don't let the Chi rule the roost. When i teach settle it means* all *the dogs have to settle and be quiet.



Romeo&beast said:


> Hello,
> and he is 8mths old and is STUPID, I mean like really stupid, dull, VERY hyper, and boisterous. I have had him since he was about 6-7wks old. It took about a week to teach him to sit, just over a week to teach him to Lay down, and just under a week to give paws. thats about as far as I have got with him because he gets way too excited with me and tries to hump my arm if we have any us time.


We have the occasional Patterjack on the farm ... I adore JRT's (one of the most trainable breeds for me so long as you work with and not against their instincts). Patterdales are more wayward, especially when young. Both breeds are by nature outside dogs. I love that. I'm an outside person lol

The time it may take to teach an individual dog to perform a trick is rarely a demonstration of their intelligence. Or of our ability as trainers ...much as we would like to think it is. It's more often simply about bidability. You talk of Muddy trying to hump your arm when you are 'training' him. This would suggest to me that he is anxious and a little confused by these sessions and that you may be showing your frustrations at (what you consider) his lack of learning. Change your methods. Change your expectations. Terriers are great to train but their brains do not works the same as Labs or Collies.

You also talk of him taking on dogs or going back to hissing swans. That's training. I don't leave my young dogs to get themselves into danger and then tut at their behaviour ...I work a step ahead.

I am sure with time both dogs will learn to live happily together though.

J


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Romeo&beast said:


> Hello,
> I am new here so Hi every one
> 
> I have got a Patterjack called Muddy Waters, and he is 8mths old and is STUPID, I mean like really stupid, dull, VERY hyper, and boisterous. I have had him since he was about 6-7wks old. It took about a week to teach him to sit, just over a week to teach him to Lay down, and just under a week to give paws. thats about as far as I have got with him because he gets way too excited with me and tries to hump my arm if we have any us time.
> ...


If your young pup has learned to sit, lie down and give paws in such a short space of time, I am not sure why anyone would think he is stupid. The other point is that if the dog doesn't get the message, it is the trainer at fault, not the dog. So, it is not your dog who is the stupid one. Next, if you are bringing a new dog into the home it is important to fuss the resident dog first, treat him first, greet him first, for at least the first few weeks. Each dog will indicate whether he needs fuss or not, separating them is not necessary. I don't think any dog can be over pampered, unless you mean untrained.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> Different strokes for different folks. I doubt that Muddy will care if the Chi is pampered so long as his needs are met too. Chi's don't have to be pampered though ..they're not as delicate as some people would wish. Our friends Chi runs with our Labs. All dogs can be trained to settle though and i would work on this with Muddy so he can join you all in the lounge. And don't let the Chi rule the roost. When i teach settle it means* all *the dogs have to settle and be quiet.
> 
> We have the occasional Patterjack on the farm ... I adore JRT's (one of the most trainable breeds for me so long as you work with and not against their instincts). Patterdales are more wayward, especially when young. Both breeds are by nature outside dogs. I love that. I'm an outside person lol
> 
> ...


I will quote my words again "he gets way too excited with me and tries to hump my arm if we have any us time." 
He only gets excited during "US" time, not during training time!!

Why isn't anyone reading these thing's correctly? 
I am also not asking for advice on how to train a very stubborn young patterjack, Nor am I asking for your opinions on how he goes out down the canal playing with My children during family outings.
I am asking about keeping the two separate . . . .


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> So long as they're both getting the attention they need and want, and so as long as Muddy is out because he wants to be out and can be out safely, I wouldn't bother trying to change him into something he's not tbh. I do get wanting them to have the same because if Milly has a treat, I don't like leaving Max out, but if I offer one, and he doesn't want it, I'm not going to stop Mill from taking it without a good reason.
> 
> Likewise, if Max decides he doesn't want to go for a walk (by hiding under the bed, for example), I'm not going to force him. His choice. He faces the consequences of doing without.


I do want them to have the same treatment. But from what I am reading about Chihuahua's, they feel the cold more than we do, so if we are just warm then the Chi would need a jumper? So the back door is open from 6am-10pm It gets very cold in my hard tiled floor kitchen, and it gets cold really quickly. but Muddy really does love his garden, I could fit 10 8ft paddling pools out there with a 6ft fence all around, so for his little legs its a great run. And when its raining OMG he loves it. slides all over the place building up speed to roll. 
I am going to try and see how he reacts to the Chi being in the living room today, I am nervous about doing it, but we will see how it goes. As I really can do without a sick Chihuahua on my hands with 6 children and it being so close to christmas.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

> I am asking about keeping the two separate . . . .


In which case you have been given a thread full of good suggestions already.



Romeo&beast said:


> I am also not asking for advice on how to train a very stubborn young patterjack,


If you call your dog stupid on a dog forum then expect a few to disagree.

And stubborn is not really a canine characteristic. It's a human one. So again ....

J


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> In which case you have been given a thread full of good suggestions already.
> 
> If you call your dog stupid on a dog forum then expect a few to disagree.
> 
> ...


He is dull and clumsy and ignorant, He refuses to listen, these are typical traits to have in a jack russel. They also get distracted very easily, so training them will be hard. 
And if you read anything about breeds of dogs, 'Stubborn' is one of the most common used words to describe a few breeds. I have grown up with dogs, and he is the first one to be the way he is. Everyone who meets him says the same as what I do, and that is "he is stupid!" or the most common one i get is . . . "is he always this daft?" Because he is, does not mean I don't love him, or that I treat him any different, I am sure that your puppies & dogs have done many of stupid things that just make them stupid. It is not a big deal so chill out....


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

If your dog loves the outside as much as you say, then why do you think he will care if the chihuahua is in the living room? I'd be more worried that the chihuahua is used to a level of human interaction that means they like to snuggle; then whether they will feel cold if you leave the door open and them in the kitchen. My yorkie loves to run and is very active, but would be distraught if you treated her the way you do muddy.

You clearly want to treat them the same and I don't think you should, so I'll leave you to it. I hope it works out.


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## Aahlly (Sep 12, 2014)

Chis are not as delicate or as insistent on being pampered as people often think. Being a small dog you obviously have to be aware that they have little bodies which can be somewhat more easy to injure and they do feel the cold so may need a jumper popped on, but there's no reason Romeo can't play with Muddy. My chi loves to snuggle under a blanket on the couch with me but she equally loves running through the woods and getting covered in mud with my other dogs. She also refuses to wear any kind of clothes without a massive sulk so we mostly go without and she warms up with running around anyway. Give Romeo a chance to be a real dog and he might surprise you. But also, there's nothing wrong with keeping them separate and giving them two different lifestyles to suit their individual needs. It's up to the dogs wants TBH. You can't make either be something they're not.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> runs in to doors, never learns for doing things that hurt him. Has to keep trying at it.


This is not being stupid, this is being a typical terrier who is persistent and not influenced by pain. Many breeds of dog will ignore physical pain and keep doing something they are determined to do, has nothing to do with stupidity and everything to do with determination and persistence. 
Terriers are incredibly smart little dogs, though not traditionally biddable. There is a huge difference between biddable and "smart". Many dogs who are not traditionally biddable are still incredibly smart. As already suggested, the book "When Pigs Fly" by Jane Killion might be very enlightening to you.

As for the inside outside thing, the dogs will be fine with different expectations as long as they are both having their needs met. Many of us have had multi dog households where different dog get different rules and treatment and it is fine. All dogs are different and thus will have different needs. As long as you are meeting the terrier's needs, and his outside space is safe for him, he should be fine. As long as you are meeting the chihuahua's needs being inside and "pampered" will be fine for him. Neither dog will resent the other dog either - that's humanizing them.

Now, if you want the terrier to be more of an "inside" dog than he is (which honestly, I think he and you might enjoy), then there are ways to do that also.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> He is dull and clumsy and ignorant, He refuses to listen, these are typical traits to have in a jack russel. They also get distracted very easily, so training them will be hard.
> And if you read anything about breeds of dogs, 'Stubborn' is one of the most common used words to describe a few breeds. I have grown up with dogs, and he is the first one to be the way he is. Everyone who meets him says the same as what I do, and that is "he is stupid!" or the most common one i get is . . . "is he always this daft?" Because he is, does not mean I don't love him, or that I treat him any different, I am sure that your puppies & dogs have done many of stupid things that just make them stupid. It is not a big deal so chill out....


Sorry but it is a big deal, I find the way you describe your dog very upsetting and no doubt he picks up on your apparent disdain for him. What do you mean by dull? from your description he sounds full of beans and energy so how is that dull? Ignorant :Jawdrop Don't think I have ever heard anyone talk about their dog in such derogatory terms before. If the only issue is your concern about the Chi feeling the cold then invest in a fleece although I would say the bigger issue is your lack of understanding of your other dog.

http://www.equafleece.co.uk/store/dogs.html


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> I don't, thats why I asked about separating them..... I gave a little description of both dogs, and seeing whats the best to do? having one out door mud loving scrap yard dog, and an indoor pampered chi. I don't know of an outdoor Chi. But my jack loves the garden and mud.


To me this sounds pretty great. If one wants to be outside and one inside on your lap, great! At least you won't have any jelousy scraps because both want be on your lap 
I also highly doubt you will ever get a Chi to go and live outside in the mud, especially one that's already used to indoor comforts.

I am lucky enough to have a mix of both a Jack and a Chi, he LOVES his indoor comforts and wont go out to pee in the rain.
But he will also go and charge through the mud when out on a walk! He is full of energy, loves to chase, he bounces around on walks "what's next, what's next, is that rabbit?" lol He adopted the nickname 'Pocket Rocket' by my parents :Hilarious (and that's without a high additive food like Bakers! He's on natural raw!)

He has to have a very different training approach to that of a Retriever (what I have been used too all my life!) both very intelligent breeds, but they need a very different approach.
I kept reading 'stubborn' too when looking into his breeds, before I picked him up, but I really don't think that's what it is at all. He's not stubborn, he just needs a good enough reason to do something. Not just "Because the human said so"
PLEASE understand, he is in no way dumb.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sorry but it is a big deal, I find the way you describe your dog very upsetting and no doubt he picks up on your apparent disdain for him. What do you mean by dull? from your description he sounds full of beans and energy so how is that dull? Ignorant :Jawdrop Don't think I have ever heard anyone talk about their dog in such derogatory terms before. If the only issue is your concern about the Chi feeling the cold then invest in a fleece although I would say the bigger issue is your lack of understanding of your other dog.
> 
> http://www.equafleece.co.uk/store/dogs.html


I seriously give up with forums! It is not meant to be taken in an upsetting way, I know many of people who call their dogs, cats, other animals, stupid. My god can't you all drop it already??? the concern is for both frigging dogs not just the chi being cold!!!! As I have said that more than once now.(actually read what I have written)
I do not want my dog feeling pushed out by the new dog! and yes he is full of beans, which has already been made very clear that bakers complete could very well be the problem that is causing him to be VERY VERY hyper! But running in to trees, closed doors, squaring up to horses, squaring up to tribes of dogs, squaring up to swans, and doing it more than a good few times and not learning from it is stupid! and knowing that I am talking to him but he is ignoring me is being ignorant! 
I am not someone who lives for their dog. A dog is an animal. YES a dog has its own little personality. YES they are their own little character. But he is still a dog. A dog will be what the owner trains them to be. As I have already stated..... my previous dog was perfectly trained! so my methods do work, and have worked with dogs who I have never met before!!
I do understand my dog! OMG THIS FORUM! thats all everyone here has done is pin point on the certain uses of words..... I just asked another friend the exact same question and do you know what he said to me..... "Good bloody question, that is my dear, I have a friend who is a Chihuahua owner I will ask what the best sinario would be!" We then continued the conversation about Muddy, I explained the things he does, he was then asked ''what would you say my dog is?" his reply was "stupid", we laughed about it. 
it is the same as when you say .....''don't be so bloody stupid", that does not mean you are calling someone stupid does it? IT IS JUST A SAYING!!

Most of you have paid more attention to the word stupid!! its pathetic if you ask me. Its people like you who treat dogs like humans who are then the first to complain when the animal does something wrong! They are animals! This is a new snapping yappy little pampered (meaning spoilt) Chi, who has been left to own his PREVIOUS house! not mine!
I have four children and two step children! I needed a quick solution to the problem! not a full night of everyone sticking their opinions about one friggin word!

But thank you to those who actually did answer the question that I had asked. The bakers complete comments were very helpful. thank you to those who understood the meaning of wanting to treat them both the same.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> A dog will be what the owner trains them to be.


Couldn't have said it better myself. In your case as you say your dog is dull, ignorant and stupid I would say that following your own logic you must have trained him to be that way :Eggonface


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

just


Muttly said:


> To me this sounds pretty great. If one wants to be outside and one inside on your lap, great! At least you won't have any jelousy scraps because both want be on your lap
> I also highly doubt you will ever get a Chi to go and live outside in the mud, especially one that's already used to indoor comforts.
> 
> I am lucky enough to have a mix of both a Jack and a Chi, he LOVES his indoor comforts and wont go out to pee in the rain.
> ...


Thank you, 
Do you have just the one dog? 
The Chi is out side with the patterjack now, they will play for a short time. But then the Chi gets moody and snaps. I think this is due to him being cold, I have read that they need coats or jumpers so will take him to get his own coat on pay day. Or it could be that they are both Males.
I will look into different foods, which will then hopefully calm the patterjack enough to keep his attention to retrain him to be an indoor dog. He is a lump of a dog though so can't be a lapdog like the Chi. I have read that the Chi thrives of fuss and cuddles. So will have to work on ''splitting them up''. Giving Muddy his favourite chew, while I give the Chi what the Chi needs. After last nights trial in the living room the PatterJack copied the Chi nd layed down, but only for a very short time then he wanted to run riots. this was after he had been out most of the afternoon walking, after his bath, after his food. he still wanted more. So I had to put them back out the kitchen. Then they were fighting so I split them up for a short time. Put them back together fussing them both at the same time and swapping hands sharing their smell between them. But I need to build a bond and trust with the Chi before the children are here next friday.
and PLEASE understand that he is stupid, 'dull as a brush', but in a very funny way. tiring! but funny. I find myself watching him falling over, and running into the fence, then he barks at the fence as if it is the fences fault... Still tries to run through the closed french doors, has done it for four months now. Just doesn't seem to learn.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Large gardens,
Patterdale x terrier (with new dog now)
Looking for "quick fixes"
Gets offended when challenged....
Patterdale is an outdoor dog and about 8m/o. Owner had him from 6-7wks...

You do know that multiple accounts aren't allowed?

Just saying...


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

This seems like such a non problem. If the terrier is happy outside, leave him be. If the Chihuahua wants to be inside, let him. If he's cold get him a coat, look up Equafleece.

One of our terriers spends a lot of time upstairs in my room, and our other one is down here running around. It's not a problem, they're different dogs and like different things.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself. In your case as you say your dog is dull, ignorant and stupid I would say that following your own logic you must have trained him to be that way :Eggonface


of course thats what it is. 
lmao, he is the most perfect well together young PatterJack puppy, He is well trained, and fully understands every word you say to him in any tone you wish to use. BETTER?


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi I wonder if you live in South Wales do you want to keep the Chi just asking you used a welch word for cuddle that's why I am asking


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> Large gardens,
> Patterdale x terrier (with new dog now)
> Looking for "quick fixes"
> Gets offended when challenged....
> ...


WHAT? 
seriously now this is just ridiculous.... 
and I have only just found this site.....
What is everyones problem here? I asked a question. And all everyone seems to be doing is having their pennies worth about a choice of word! GET A GRIP...






now then . . . . that clarifies the words stupid and dog!


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

shirleystarr said:


> Hi I wonder if you live in South Wales do you want to keep the Chi just asking you used a welch word for cuddle that's why I am asking


Yes I am from Wales, but I am sorry but I have to keep the Chi. He belongs to my step daughter. But her mum couldn't cope with him or do anything with him so we had to home him.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> just
> 
> Thank you,
> Do you have just the one dog?
> ...


I call it funny. Muttly often does random things and I laugh, he's very entertaining  He sits there and gets so into his grooming, that he topples over backwards :Hilarious
Yeah I have the one dog now. When I was growing up, we always had 2 Retrievers. When we visit my parents, Muttly is on laps, mine, mums, dads and their Retrievers are on the floor as they don't allow them on sofas. But this may only work because he is a visitor? Not sure there tbh.

I would get the Chi a coat yeah, especially with winter coming, they do feel the cold. What are they doing when the Chi snaps? Are they rough playing?

Also, I was gonna say that since I have moved Muttly's walk to evening (so an hour after his dinner), he is totally calm for the rest of the night. I think it is because he is burning off all that energy he has taken in from his food. If he is loaded up with calories and had his walk beforehand, he's not got a way to burn it off, apart from play.

It's good Muddy did copy Romeo in the lounge, of only for a short while initially. Do you think he got hot?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

You are creating problems where there are none. Treat each dog individually. It's very odd behavior on your part, to want to treat both dogs exactly the same, the dogs are individuals. Muddy is Muddy, Romeo is Romeo. I still don't understand why you are making such a fuss. Treat Muddy as Muddy and Romeo as Romeo. 

If you don't want Romeo on the couch provide him with a comfortable bed in the living room and teach him that's his spot.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Gemmaa said:


> This seems like such a non problem. If the terrier is happy outside, leave him be. If the Chihuahua wants to be inside, let him. If he's cold get him a coat, look up Equafleece.
> 
> One of our terriers spends a lot of time upstairs in my room, and our other one is down here running around. It's not a problem, they're different dogs and like different things.


May I ask, are they both the same breed? are they both the same sex? and how old are they now? How long have they been together? 
I will check out equafleece, never even heard of that before. I think it is a typical short haired white coat apple head chi. so by any chance would you know what size it is please?


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Romeo&beast said:


> May I ask, are they both the same breed? are they both the same sex? and how old are they now? How long have they been together?
> I will check out equafleece, never even heard of that before. I think it is a typical short haired white coat apple head chi. so by any chance would you know what size it is please?


They are both males, one is a Jack Russell, the other one is a Patterdale cross. The oldest is almost 10 years old, the other is almost 6 years old, and they've been together for those 6 years.
I'm not sure what size you would need, but Equafleece are very helpful with size questions.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> May I ask, are they both the same breed? are they both the same sex? and how old are they now? How long have they been together?
> I will check out equafleece, never even heard of that before. I think it is a typical short haired white coat apple head chi. so by any chance would you know what size it is please?


Would love to see a pic of your lil Chi. I can see Muddy in your avatar, he looks very cute!


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Muttly said:


> I call it funny. Muttly often does random things and I laugh, he's very entertaining  He sits there and gets so into his grooming, that he topples over backwards :Hilarious
> Yeah I have the one dog now. When I was growing up, we always had 2 Retrievers. When we visit my parents, Muttly is on laps, mine, mums, dads and their Retrievers are on the floor as they don't allow them on sofas. But this may only work because he is a visitor? Not sure there tbh.
> 
> I would get the Chi a coat yeah, especially with winter coming, they do feel the cold. What are they doing when the Chi snaps? Are they rough playing?
> ...


I think it was because he was a visitor. if they were older and wiser Retrievers and well trained to not be on the furniture (one big pet hate of mine) then it so wouldn't bother them for a visitor to do it. 
Muddy bounces around wildly, Romeo plays back, but Muddy being Muddy doesn't want to quit ad will keep on at the Chi to keep going. Muddy even tires out my two boys 5&6.
I am completely blind to how the previous owner dealt with the Chi snapping (circumstances). I am just parting them and telling them no. while Muddy just seems to laugh at me, perked ears, teeth showing, then a flop down and show's his belly. 
And the Chi refuses to go on his bed that is in the kitchen, he will sit by the kitchen door and whine. Last night he seemed very happy being in the living room in the warmth on a blanket. Where as you might be right on Muddy getting hot and bothered as he is used to the outdoors and cold night air, So my only option to keep it fair between both dogs would be to get the Chi a coat....?


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Would love to see a pic of your lil Chi. I can see Muddy in your avatar, he looks very cute!


I don't know how to add more pics, I only found this forum last night. 
I feel really sorry for the chi and I just want to cuddle him and fuss him, his nails are long and his eyes are weepy and he has a touch of cherry eye which I am trying to bathe and massage but we haven't built much trust at the minute for me to be 'handling' him


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

If you measure the Chi from his neck to his tail and ask Equafleece they will tell you what size you need they are very helpful


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Perhaps the chi doesn't like being on his own away from you


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> I think it was because he was a visitor. if they were older and wiser Retrievers and well trained to not be on the furniture (one big pet hate of mine) then it so wouldn't bother them for a visitor to do it.
> Muddy bounces around wildly, Romeo plays back, but Muddy being Muddy doesn't want to quit ad will keep on at the Chi to keep going. Muddy even tires out my two boys 5&6.
> I am completely blind to how the previous owner dealt with the Chi snapping (circumstances). I am just parting them and telling them no. while Muddy just seems to laugh at me, perked ears, teeth showing, then a flop down and show's his belly.
> And the Chi refuses to go on his bed that is in the kitchen, he will sit by the kitchen door and whine. Last night he seemed very happy being in the living room in the warmth on a blanket. Where as you might be right on Muddy getting hot and bothered as he is used to the outdoors and cold night air, So my only option to keep it fair between both dogs would be to get the Chi a coat....?


Can identify there, Muttly will keep on sometimes with the Retrievers when they have had enough playing and he continues to nip their legs. They do tell him though and he listens. One Retriever is 3 and one is 9.

If I were you honestly, I would let Romeo be in the lounge and Muddy be in the kitchen/outside. They are where they wanna be and happy. As you said the lil Chi was asking to go back in the lounge, as probably cold.
Muttly certainly doesn't like to be away from us, he will be in the lounge all evening with us and at night he is in there with a babygate accross the stairs while we are up in bed, but because he can still hear us, he's ok.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Romeo&beast said:


> Hello,
> I am new here so Hi every one
> 
> I have got a Patterjack called Muddy Waters, and he is 8mths old and is STUPID, I mean like really stupid, dull, VERY hyper, and boisterous. I have had him since he was about 6-7wks old. It took about a week to teach him to sit, just over a week to teach him to Lay down, and just under a week to give paws. thats about as far as I have got with him because he gets way too excited with me and tries to hump my arm if we have any us time.
> ...


Ive only just read this and scan read some of your other answering posts to look for clues, so could have missed something, but really you are talking about two totally different breeds and breed traits. Really Muddy sounds like some of the things he is doing t most young terrier types especially If they have come from working lines like to get up too in all honesty. He is also very young a lot of dogs at this age especially are boisterous, often have trouble with impulse control and concentrating on things and focusing and following commands. At 8 months he is an adolescent the time when most owners start to tear their hair out. Even ones that were well trained before then and come back on recall once they change from the more dependant eager to please pup to the more independent adolescent and young adult its not unusual for them to seem to forget any previous training and go through a phase where they don't seem to listen.
So at the moment his life stage probably wont be helping. Where you got him from and where and how he was born and reared from birth before you got him too, can play a part in how he is.

Chihuahuas often have issues because they are treated like babies and pampered by a lot of owners, they are really actually very intelligent fun active little dogs and if they are treated and trained like any other breed are not that much different. One of my friends got one, and she also happens to have a couple of JRT mixes and they all actually live together hapilly. The Chihuahua does like being picked up and to sit on your lap, but he spends his time with the other two, and in fact looks like he happens to be the boss if anything, although they all get along great. Sometimes he will sit with you and the others after a fuss will go and do their own thing with a toy or ball. The chi doesn't particularly rough and tumble with the others the other two often play physically together, but all in all the way the way the whole 3 live together balances out. Given the time and what each needs individually too, I don't see why you necessarily need to separate them to be honest.
My friends chi came a long time after the other two were together and that's worked OK.

I notice you feed Bakers that wont be helping either its known because of whats in it for it to commonly cause hyper activity and also skin and coat conditions in dogs, so probably wont be helping so would be worth making a change to more natural ingredient based food.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

lorilu said:


> You are creating problems where there are none. Treat each dog individually. It's very odd behavior on your part, to want to treat both dogs exactly the same, the dogs are individuals. Muddy is Muddy, Romeo is Romeo. I still don't understand why you are making such a fuss. Treat Muddy as Muddy and Romeo as Romeo.
> 
> If you don't want Romeo on the couch provide him with a comfortable bed in the living room and teach him that's his spot.


Muddy is Muddy 
Romeo is Romeo

Muddy is a wild playful hyper active 'STUPID' shorthaired outdoor puppy. 
Romeo is a small unsettled nervous snappy indoor diva Chihuahua.
its not I want to treat them exactly the same, it is being fair to Muddy as this was his home first.

tell me this then, if you will........If you brought a new little chihuahua dog home to a boisterous outdoor dog, you would treat them differently?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I've got pointers and a rottie. The rottie had a thick warm coat of her own so she doesn't need any help keeping warm. The pointers have very thin coats and feel the cold. Therefore the pointers have equafleece tankies (see link I posted earlier) for night times. Even between the pointers one feels the cold more than the other and as he happens to be the one who doesn't get to run off lead as much as the other he also has a coat for keeping warm out on walks. Different dogs. Different needs. Different management. Same as the pointers are athletic and need a fair bit of exercise whereas my rottie has a lot of orthopaedic/joint issues. Much as she would love to run with the pointers all over the forest or the Moors she can't because she is not physically able to. Answer - some time off lead to play and chase with them but not the whole walk. She doesn't beat them up because they get things that she doesn't such as warm coats and more time off lead.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Romeo&beast said:


> Muddy is Muddy
> Romeo is Romeo
> 
> Muddy is a wild playful hyper active 'STUPID' shorthaired outdoor puppy.
> ...


Yes, as has been said a number of times on this thread by me and others. Of course I would treat them differently. I still am not seeing where this "unfairness" comes in.

Treat Muddy as you have always treated him (though you should work harder on training). 
Allow Romeo to get used to his new home, provide a safe warm spot for him to call his own.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

My final piece of advice is to stop whining and start paying attention to the useful advice you have been given by some very knowledgeable people who have taken the trouble to post in your thread.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Romeo&beast said:


> Muddy is Muddy
> Romeo is Romeo
> 
> Muddy is a wild playful hyper active 'STUPID' shorthaired outdoor puppy.
> ...


 Yes I would treat them diffently as they both have different needs I would let Muddy go outside if he wants to and I would let the little Chi stay inside Muddy wont get jealous of the Chi being inside but you do need a coat for the little Chi when it gets cold if he goes outside to toilet and if he goes for a walk


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> tell me this then, if you will........If you brought a new little chihuahua dog home to a boisterous outdoor dog, you would treat them differently?


I would treat them differently, in fact you must treat them differently IMO, because they ARE different

I have 2 retrievers, identical in looks, one is 8 the other 2 (near enough in both cases) 
The older is my angel, never puts a paw wrong, little interest in toys, other than the odd chew toy, doesn't pressure for fuss, erupts into quivering excitement just because you said her name.
The other is a well behaved wotsit, but full of energy, piles up toys to get you to play, loves tuggy and only sits a fuss on her terms in most cases (booping you until you provide)

They are treated different because they ARE different.

Whilst cuddling my older dog for hours on end, absent mindedly twiddling her tummy fur, I am not stressing about the other missing out, she is doing what she wants to do at that time and will join when she wishes to...or not.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Romeo&beast said:


> Muddy is Muddy
> Romeo is Romeo
> 
> Muddy is a wild playful hyper active 'STUPID' shorthaired outdoor puppy.
> ...


If you don't want us to keep going on about you calling your dog stupid and giving you a hard time over it, perhaps you should also take your own advice and stop fixating on that one word.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say it is YOU who are fixating on that word, not us. If you keep on calling your dog stupid and people disagree with you, what do you think will happen? That's right! They're going to keep disagreeing with you!

I'm not convinced you're not an existing member with an alias account. Posting style is the same, the younger dog is about the same breed, the large garden is the same, the age of acquisition and current age of the terrier is about the same, not accepting that members are responding to what you have said yourself ... is the same.


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## Pawscrossed (Jul 2, 2013)

Romeo&beast said:


> Muddy is Muddy
> Romeo is Romeo
> 
> Muddy is a wild playful hyper active 'STUPID' shorthaired outdoor puppy.
> ...


You said that Muddy won't learn. Four pages of good advice and you won't learn that Muddy isn't stupid. Go figure.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Ive only just read this and scan read some of your other answering posts to look for clues, so could have missed something, but really you are talking about two totally different breeds and breed traits. Really Muddy sounds like some of the things he is doing t most young terrier types especially If they have come from working lines like to get up too in all honesty. He is also very young a lot of dogs at this age especially are boisterous, often have trouble with impulse control and concentrating on things and focusing and following commands. At 8 months he is an adolescent the time when most owners start to tear their hair out. Even ones that were well trained before then and come back on recall once they change from the more dependant eager to please pup to the more independent adolescent and young adult its not unusual for them to seem to forget any previous training and go through a phase where they don't seem to listen.
> So at the moment his life stage probably wont be helping. Where you got him from and where and how he was born and reared from birth before you got him too, can play a part in how he is.
> 
> Chihuahuas often have issues because they are treated like babies and pampered by a lot of owners, they are really actually very intelligent fun active little dogs and if they are treated and trained like any other breed are not that much different. One of my friends got one, and she also happens to have a couple of JRT mixes and they all actually live together hapilly. The Chihuahua does like being picked up and to sit on your lap, but he spends his time with the other two, and in fact looks like he happens to be the boss if anything, although they all get along great. Sometimes he will sit with you and the others after a fuss will go and do their own thing with a toy or ball. The chi doesn't particularly rough and tumble with the others the other two often play physically together, but all in all the way the way the whole 3 live together balances out. Given the time and what each needs individually too, I don't see why you necessarily need to separate them to be honest.
> ...


Thank you,

Do your friends JRT mixes and Chihuahua live mostly outdoors? 
From reading your post, it makes me not worry about the Chi so much now, If they can both live as partially outdoor (kitchen with back door always open) dogs then there isn't a problem. but I must invest in aqua fleece.
I have read so many posts/comments about the bakers food. I wish I knew that! lol, Muddy has been driving me crazy like a child who's just found a life time supply of smarties. He's been that hyper. Walking him all day for hours hasn't made a difference to his hyper activity at all. 
The Chi, was treated like a baby, he was with a 6yr old girlie girl. He used to get dressed up and pampered and carried everywhere. He seems nervous when I go to smooth him, I am hoping that that will pass. I have been patting both at the same time and switching hands during fussing. They seem very pally today.


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sorry but it is a big deal,* I find the way you describe your dog very upsetting and no doubt he picks up on your apparent disdain for him. * What do you mean by dull? from your description he sounds full of beans and energy so how is that dull? Ignorant :Jawdrop Don't think I have ever heard anyone talk about their dog in such derogatory terms before. If the only issue is your concern about the Chi feeling the cold then invest in a fleece although I would say the bigger issue is your lack of understanding of your other dog.
> 
> http://www.equafleece.co.uk/store/dogs.html


Its so sad that you feel this way about what sounds to be an amazing dog, I also dont understand how an hyperactive dog could ever be described as dull or stupid. I think you would be well advised to speak to a local dog trainer or someone who can work with you both, from experience JRT are incredible dogs, intelligent, hardy, social and downright amazing little things. Dogs need companionship and love more than anything, if they feel either is in short supply they will act up, When we collected Harry he was batsh*t as he had been so bored, Now and bear in mind hes 11 weeks and weve only had him a week hes so much calmer- they really do just want to love and be loved.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I have a JRTx and she's an indoor dog. She has DA ( dog aggression ) issues but has yet accepted both my younger dogs into the home without so much as a grumble. It's all about supervision, patience and commitment to all the individual personalities


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Romeo&beast said:


> I don't know how to add more pics, I only found this forum last night.
> I feel really sorry for the chi and I just want to cuddle him and fuss him, his nails are long and his eyes are weepy and he has a touch of cherry eye which I am trying to bathe and massage but we haven't built much trust at the minute for me to be 'handling' him


 I think maybe the little Chi needs to set a vet about the cherry eye and at the same time the vet could clip his nails for you too Cherry eye is very sore and needs an operation its not a long op at all


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> If you don't want us to keep going on about you calling your dog stupid and giving you a hard time over it, perhaps you should also take your own advice and stop fixating on that one word.
> 
> In fact, I'd go so far as to say it is YOU who are fixating on that word, not us. If you keep on calling your dog stupid and people disagree with you, what do you think will happen? That's right! They're going to keep disagreeing with you!
> 
> I'm not convinced you're not an existing member with an alias account. Posting style is the same, the younger dog is about the same breed, the large garden is the same, the age of acquisition and current age of the terrier is about the same, not accepting that members are responding to what you have said yourself ... is the same.







what on earth are you on about?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Romeo&beast said:


> Muddy is Muddy
> Romeo is Romeo
> 
> Muddy is a wild playful hyper active 'STUPID' shorthaired outdoor puppy.
> ...


When you bring any dog in, especially if its an older dog, then you often will have some form of quirks or issues behavioural wise to sort out and retrain, not always but often there will be something that you will have to work on in some form or another. As mentioned if the Chi has been previously pampered and not been allowed to be a "dog" as such he could be clingy and needy at first. My friends Chi was never pampered and even obedience trained so with him it wasn't an issue, he too was her sons dog previously and older when he came to live with her existing two JRT mixes.

When bringing in any new dog pup or adult with existing dogs and I have done both over the years, I have always worked with mine individually the new onw and the exisiting ones still at least some of the time. Separate walks and separate training and play sessions, as well as group walks inbetween. One of the main hurdles are bringing the dog in, and integrating and getting them to accept each other in the first place.
If that goes smoothly and they accept and like each other then the rest is usually relatively easy after that. They don't have to be playing together all the time, just acceptance and being together and doing things like laying together, with no competing and squabbles. So that's your first main thing to get sorted if it isn't already that they are happy to be together and co-exisit.
Work with each other individually, and take them out together too at times. If you see any quirks or issues In the chis behaviour that needs working on as you go then, you start to work on it as soon as you see their may be an issue that's starting to appear. You can always come back on here for help too or ask about anything your not sure about.

Muddy at 8 months is a work in progress training and behavioural wise especially at this age, so like most adolescent dogs and dog owners you still need to work on his training too.

In all honesty I do think that you may be over complicating all this, and giving yourself a few more headaches and stress then you might need too. I mean this in a positive constructing way by the way. I know when you add to your existing dog and even further dogs later, it can be a stressful time especially when you do it first off.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

shirleystarr said:


> I think maybe the little Chi needs to set a vet about the cherry eye and at the same time the vet could clip his nails for you too Cherry eye is very sore and needs an operation its not a long op at all


I read that it wasn't that serious, and it is common in a few breeds, and that simple bathing and massaging it would b fine  

Is it really serious.....


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

I would say that anything wrong with an animal in your care should be checked by a vet, especially a pet that's new to you.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> I read that it wasn't that serious, and it is common in a few breeds, and that simple bathing and massaging it would b fine
> 
> Is it really serious.....


Cherry eye needs sorting fast, it can be potentially painful. The chi needs a vet. Oh and please do not call your dog stupid. To start with a change of food might help. Definately get the chi to a vet.


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## Aahlly (Sep 12, 2014)

If you're really not managing or enjoying Muddy, if you dislike him (calling anything stupid is usually derogatory and usually indicates dislike), if you feel like you cannot cater to the needs of two different dogs then maybe you should consider responsibly rehoming to a more suitable person who gets along and appreciates terrier traits. I know personally for me, I wouldn't have a terrier, not because they're not super little dogs, just that having met several I know they wouldn't fit with my lifestyle and it would be unfair to expect the dog to behave in a way that was contrary to it's nature. You sound very stressed OP and with having the children on top of everything, perhaps you should think seriously about what would improve everyone's life and reduce stress. I don't know how much time you spend with Muddy but from your posts I get the feeling that he is left in the kitchen or the yard for periods of time. He perhaps needs someone who has the ability, willingness and time to spend entertaining him mentally to reduce his hyperactivity and give him a job to do to focus his energy.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

LinznMilly said:


> 'm not convinced you're not an existing member with an alias account.


The one with the digger? Maybe, but..sadly there really are more of them out there.....

@Romeo&beast I'm pretty sure you shouldn't make a chihuahua an "outside" dog, especially in a cold climate. That would be cruel, bordering on, if not outright, neglect.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Romeo&beast said:


> Thank you,
> 
> Do your friends JRT mixes and Chihuahua live mostly outdoors?
> From reading your post, it makes me not worry about the Chi so much now, If they can both live as partially outdoor (kitchen with back door always open) dogs then there isn't a problem. but I must invest in aqua fleece.
> ...


Sometimes they are in the kitchen, at others they are in the living room, in summer at least when its warmer they can run in and out in the garden if they want too, come inside when they dont so varied really. They are never shut out with no choice in the matter though.
If the Chi was treated like a baby, and carried around and hasn't mixed with other dogs there in probably lies most of his problems. They are funny, happy comical, active little dogs, they do love a cuddle or he does, but he has also allowed to be a normal dog all his life, the only difference is he is small, and he will have Chihuahua breed traits, he wont have prey drive like the terrier you have got for example, and may not be so much into things like digging and investigating things as much or like the terrier.

The lady who used to run one of my training classes, lovely lady no longer with us sadly always had chis with a mixture of older bigger dogs, her chis were trained too and treated like other dogs.
In fact she used to go ballistic and if one turned up for class decked out in a dress and diamante accessories for a training session, the owner was told to remove it all in no uncertain terms

We used to have a lot of chis and chi mixes at the classes, all doing the same exercises and training next to and with all sorts of breeds. One lady who had chi and chi mixes I used to train my youngest with, also had a husky and a Staffordshire bull terrier too, and as far as I know they all lived together as well.

To be honest any issues that chis have a lot of the time, I really think personally a lot of it is caused by the owners or the ones that don't allow them to be what they are Dogs. Which in turn leads them into fraustrated insecure little dogs. Being allowed to be a dog again, and having a dog to play with or at least for company may yet be the making of yours even.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2015)

Gemmaa said:


> This seems like such a non problem. If the terrier is happy outside, leave him be. If the Chihuahua wants to be inside, let him. If he's cold get him a coat, look up Equafleece.


This is where my confusion lies too. 
I keep reading the posts trying to figure out what the "problem" is... There is none. One dogs likes being inside the other likes being outside. So leave them be...
I have two dogs with different needs and they get those different needs met. They seem fine to me *shrug*



Romeo&beast said:


> Muddy is a wild playful hyper active 'STUPID' shorthaired outdoor puppy.


Dude, the one having trouble dropping the stupid thing is you.
If you would just leave it alone and quit insisting your dog is stupid when by your own descriptions he's clearly not. 
Squaring up to horses, tribes of dogs, swans? That's not stupid, that's a typical terrier with no sense of self-preservation. We had a terrier growing up who got quilled numerous times by porcupines. He didn't care, he was that determined, and that prey driven. It's typical determined terrier behavior.
Knowing that you're talking to you and ignoring you is pretty typical behavior of a dog who is not inherently biddable and insufficiently motivated. Your dog is not ignorant, he is simply tuning you out because you are meaningless to him - which going by the descriptions of how he lives makes sense. He doesn't need you for anything, you don't offer him anything he's interested in, so you're meaningless to him and he tunes you out. Makes perfect sense to me...

I know you say you know dogs, but it really sounds like you don't. At least not terriers. 
I've already recommended this book once, please at least give it a glance, it's called "When Pigs Fly" by Jane Killion, and it's about understanding and training dogs exactly like your terrier mix.



Romeo&beast said:


> A dog will be what the owner trains them to be.


If you say so...
But then by this logic, my great dane should be a herding dog. *eyes great dane and laughs*


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I am genuinely surprised that this thread had continued. There was all sorts of useful stuff posted on here yesterday and the same again today.

OP for someone who says they are dog experienced I am alarmed that you have no idea how painful a cherry eye can be. It does lead me to question your expertise of training. You sound like someone who has been very fortunate to have a quick dog in the past who has allows you to make mistakes whereas Muddy is rather cleverly testing you. You must surely realise that dogs have different characters depending on their breed?!

I hope we have different definitions of the word stupid. I think it an insulting word that shows ignorance. I hope that you mean funny and amusing otherwise I do feel I have to call into question your welfare standards and Muddy’s care. You may think him less than other dogs but he is still a dog that requires care, love and attention. You’ve had loads of advice, how about taking some of it and putting it into practice now?


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

ouesi said:


> This is where my confusion lies too.
> I keep reading the posts trying to figure out what the "problem" is... There is none. One dogs likes being inside the other likes being outside. So leave them be...
> I have two dogs with different needs and they get those different needs met. They seem fine to me *shrug*
> 
> ...


Me too, I don't really understand apart from the OP's frustration on training Muddy who sounds like your regular pre-teen woof!


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I think ill check out that book you guys keep recommending.I would be very interested to read it!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Muttly said:


> I think ill check out that book you guys keep recommending.I would be very interested to read it!


When Pigs Fly? It's fantastic  And I own a breed who "stands around waiting to be told what to do" lol.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> When Pigs Fly? It's fantastic  And I own a breed who "stands around waiting to be told what to do" lol.


Yeah. aww lol. I've only been in terrier world for a year, so still lots to learn! Gonna add to my Amazon list for Xmas


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Yeah. aww lol. I've only been in terrier world for a year, so still lots to learn! Gonna add to my Amazon list for Xmas


It's well worth a read  Not a step by step training guide or anything like that but talks a lot about motivation, how to get your dog to want to do what you want it to do by using what it actually wants. Even for those of us with the more biddable breeds it's well worth reading imo.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2015)

Here is a "stupid" dog with no sense of self preservation, and wholly unaffected by punishment or pain:



















Yes, that's a real hot dog...









And some of his many injuries because he has no sense of self preservation...









This was one of many encounters with a skunk, they don't just spray....


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I've personally found Missy super easy to train. Very quick on the uptake, eager, offers me lots of behaviours for the right reward and is just very well mannered in general. So I can't say I understand the whole 'terriers are stubborn and hard to train' mentality 

Although she can be a bugger with barking. That's her one downside I guess. You tell her to be quiet, she looks directly at you and will continue to grumble under her breath and we go back and forth like that for some time. She always has the last word!  And don't get me started on her barking in the garden! Although recently after YEARS of different methods we have finally found what seems a good solution to that problem.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I have when Pigs fly..... great read, but the "getting them to think for themselves" thing has been a LONG LONG LONG old slog with his Gingerness LOL _ He really does not "get" the box bless him


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## Canarie (Sep 4, 2013)

Hi,
Would ditch the Bakers.
It is cheap and a case of you get what you pay for.
Try Arden Grange.
Plus,you do have a dog that needs ++ exercise.

Canarie


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

How about taking the dog to training school ? It may help you see where your going wrong


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Canarie said:


> Hi,
> Would ditch the Bakers.
> It is cheap and a case of you get what you pay for.
> Try Arden Grange.
> ...


I think it is untrue it is cheap, I believe it is actually quite costly per meal
Yes generally you get what you pay for, but in this case I think you get LESS than what you pay for 
You pay over the odds for extremely poor food to cover the MASSIVE advertising budget they spend on promoting the rubbish

There is a reason they are the most popular brand!


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

Muttly said:


> I think ill check out that book you guys keep recommending.I would be very interested to read it!


Me, too, I think it sounds like a must for terrier owned!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

kare said:


> I think it is untrue it is cheap, I believe it is actually quite costly per meal
> Yes generally you get what you pay for, but in this case I think you get LESS than what you pay for
> You pay over the odds for extremely poor food to cover the MASSIVE advertising budget they spend on promoting the rubbish
> 
> There is a reason they are the most popular brand!


This, it'd cost me more overall to feed Pedigree or Bakers than it does to feed a reasonably good food. You can certainly get much better foods for the same price.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Sled dog hotel said:


> When you bring any dog in, especially if its an older dog, then you often will have some form of quirks or issues behavioural wise to sort out and retrain, not always but often there will be something that you will have to work on in some form or another. As mentioned if the Chi has been previously pampered and not been allowed to be a "dog" as such he could be clingy and needy at first. My friends Chi was never pampered and even obedience trained so with him it wasn't an issue, he too was her sons dog previously and older when he came to live with her existing two JRT mixes.
> 
> When bringing in any new dog pup or adult with existing dogs and I have done both over the years, I have always worked with mine individually the new onw and the exisiting ones still at least some of the time. Separate walks and separate training and play sessions, as well as group walks inbetween. One of the main hurdles are bringing the dog in, and integrating and getting them to accept each other in the first place.
> If that goes smoothly and they accept and like each other then the rest is usually relatively easy after that. They don't have to be playing together all the time, just acceptance and being together and doing things like laying together, with no competing and squabbles. So that's your first main thing to get sorted if it isn't already that they are happy to be together and co-exisit.
> ...


It's not that its stressful, it is more the whole ''she said you got to do this with a Chi'' or '' this site says you got to do that with a Chi'
If this was a choice pairing I wouldn't have got Muddy paired lol. He was happy on his own in his own world of mud and anything smelly.
In his head he can see this snappy yappy little white stranger trotting around him and biting his ears. 
I guess that he is snappy from being babiefied? Or too cold?.....and he believes he is the boss. They are already fine with each other. Tails are wagging. I just needed to be clear about this straight away. See I have young children coming here in a week so this is my main priority. And I want to make sure I get it right. 
With a coat the Chi aka Romeo will be be fine in the cold kitchen with the backdoor open for hours.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm beginning to wonder if this is a wind up.

I've owned Parson Russell Terriers and Jack Russells for over thirty years.

They are far from stupid, they're very bright, very keen and very busy. They will square up to anything, my current Jack Russell doesn't know when to back down.

I don't believe you have a problem. You have two very different dogs, yet you seem obsessed with moulding them into one and the same. Your terrier is a pup - puppyhood does not equate to stupidity.

How many times do you need to be told?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Romeo&beast said:


> It's not that its stressful, it is more the whole ''she said you got to do this with a Chi'' or '' this site says you got to do that with a Chi'
> If this was a choice pairing I wouldn't have got Muddy paired lol. He was happy on his own in his own world of mud and anything smelly.
> In his head he can see this snappy yappy little white stranger trotting around him and biting his ears.
> I guess that he is snappy from being babiefied? Or too cold?.....and he believes he is the boss. They are already fine with each other. Tails are wagging. I just needed to be clear about this straight away. See I have young children coming here in a week so this is my main priority. And I want to make sure I get it right.
> With a coat the Chi aka Romeo will be be fine in the cold kitchen with the backdoor open for hours.


I would still check on him regularly even with the coat on if that's what you are going to do, if he is showing signs of being cold or stressed then you might need a rethink.
There are going to be times when each wants to do something different the chi might want company and just to curl up and the terrier might want to be outside so you may need to make allowances and do different things at different times.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

ok lets set the record straight on a few things here. 

I meant stupid as in the stupid things dogs do. He didn't listen and is VERY hyper. Which again I will Thank you all for the comments about the bakers complete. 
He does sit, lay down, paw, but that took a very very long time, every day, days in days out of saying ''sit''. where as I am used to, treat, show, ''sit'', gently push the dogs bum down to a sitting position, praise, treat, repeat, dog gets it by third maybe forth time. Muddy was just way too hyper and wouldn't listen I felt as though I was beating my head against a brick wall. Other Jack owners who I have met while walking Muddy have told me to forget it for a while until his balls drop. So I did. They have and we are working on it again. He still gets very very very excited when I go to take him out. And I try to let him in th living room but he still gets ''randy'' with me.........?
He also is now on his second day of no Bakers. (will keep you updated on his progress with this change)

The problem I had was, the two very different types of dogs that I am now a sudden unplanned owner of. Who are both still very easy to train. I am new to the both breeds. I have already said that. But a dog is dog. They both walk well by my side with no lead (done in a closed off field before I get ambushed for saying they are off the lead)
This is a huge dog orientated community. Some people walk with nasty dogs off the lead along side them, who then have come up to attack my Muddy, So its not ME who puts him in harms way, its other dog owners. There are three wild dogs running around the park next door but one to my house right now. I cannot do anything about that. So I have to train Muddy to be able to cope and deal with this situation. But now I also have this little Chihuahua aka Romeo. Who after posting the original ''Question'', has come right out of his shell, following Muddy up to the fence to Bark and guard the property. As we back onto a very busy walkway also known as the brook. They now both come to me when I go out the kitchen and already I have got Muddy to sit by my feet instead of jumping all over me (and anyone else who would go out the kitchen) like he used to. THAT has taken a very very very long time to get in to him and yes he is still is a bit jumpy but not as much I know they say it is a typical Jack trait to be bouncey, but if taught correctly they will not be that annoying jumping all over people kind of dog. (maybe he is just growing up) 
YES I understand that it can take time. But I am also use to it not taking as long as it is taking with Muddy. It is tiring and disheartening. 
I am not trying to mould both dogs to be one, that is near impossible. I am a strong believer in the fact that dogs can 'talk' to you (and NO not talk talk, before you all go calling me god only knows what saying that dogs can actually talk!) Dog's are their own 'person' and all dog's are different. BUT.....in this situation, one is a very outdoor dog and the other one is a very babied indoor dog. A sudden change to the indoor dog to be an outdoor dog could be bad for the dog right?
As a personal choice I would prefer them to either both be indoor dogs or both outdoor dogs. I do not believe in treating them differently. you wouldn't let one child sleep in a bed and the other to sleep on the floor....you wouldn't allow one child to have sweets and not give to the other. So why should I expect to treat the dogs differently? i.e. Leaving one in the living room and the other not?
I have now had encouragement that the Chihuahua does not need to be as 'pampered' as much as it has been made out to me. And i have received a text saying that he has got his own clothes jumpers and so forth. Which I will admit that, that would have been very helpful if he came with those things from the beginning. So that solves the outdoor problem, although from my research today Chihuahuas are known for being stolen from gardens. Even with my 6ft fencing all the way around I will be paranoid. 

I don't work at the moment due to the fact that we have recently moved into this house to suit Partners job, so budget is very tight at the minute. We took this house purely for my children and Muddy for them and him to have their own mud filled garden and they love it so much. I can't afford to take Romeo to the vets YET, we don't get paid until the end of the month. So I looked up "cherry eye'' in the panic that there was something wrong with him, from a Chihuahua site it gave me way's to help ease it and look after it. "Apparently" he has been to the vets before with it and the vets told them that its a normal thing and to do 'A, B,& C' with it. I can only go on what I have been told. Which isn't much. Romeo bless him is like a stranger, I haven't been told much about him at all. So I am reading everything I can possibly find. Just like I did on Terriers!

So please everyone, don't think that I am ignorant to dogs and their needs. Muddy is a well loved happy puppy who is thriving well being left to do his own thing and find his feet as he ''wasn't'' taking to well to sit, lay, belly, paw. He still slides into many things I think he secretly enjoys hurting himself and being ......Ummmmm.........(choice of word here please anyone?).........So far Muddy is showing off in front of Romeo, but Romeo has a great little knack of upstaging him already. Romeo Does that little chihuahua dance and the lumpy clumsy Muddy tries to copy. Muddy is so . . . . . . (choice word here)...... I spent last night sat on the floor with them introducing them to each other, and being stern with the snapping at each other. I am just about to go and sit with them again for another hour or so. Treats and dare I say it the ''sit" word all over again, as Romeo is kind of looking at me and Muddy ...... (choice of word here)..... but it is coming clear that it might just be the cold floor and the Diva babied pampered Romeo is refusing to sit on it lol.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Sled dog hotel said:


> I would still check on him regularly even with the coat on if that's what you are going to do, if he is showing signs of being cold or stressed then you might need a rethink.
> There are going to be times when each wants to do something different the chi might want company and just to curl up and the terrier might want to be outside so you may need to make allowances and do different things at different times.


How will I know .... I mean he loved being outside today he was shaking but still wanted to go out. I feel like a lose cannon right now. He has come to us form my partners ex, which isn't the best situation to be in as she isn't very talkative to us. she hasn't told me anything abut him what food he likes, what comforts he likes, how he sleeps, where he slept. I want to spend one on one time with Romeo to get to know him. But Muddy would have to be bathed every night before coming into the living room, he is a very Muddy Muddy lol. (hence the naming) Romeo is more fussy and doesn't want to get dirty (yet). 
Can I bath a dog every night? Im sure that is bad for their coat? I just don't want Muddy to feel pushed out at all. Im taring my hair out and nervous, but i need to think fast.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Sweety said:


> *I'm beginning to wonder if this is a wind up*.
> 
> I've owned Parson Russell Terriers and Jack Russells for over thirty years.
> 
> ...


Me too, I'm loosing patience too. Nobody can possibly have cloth ears this thick. Maybe the OP eats Bakers too?


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I think the advice to wait until his 'balls have dropped' is just plain stupid if you ask me and it's a shame you seem to be receiving very odd advice from people around you in regards to dealing with him. I think it's sad you're not seeing the potential your dog has and just leaving him to be. If you actually posted for training advice I'm sure you'd receive lots of good advice and ways in which to strengthen that bond/learning. As like you said, you're learning too and training really is a great learning experience together.

What food have you changed him to?


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2015)

No need to push his bum down, just show him the treat at nose height move the treat towards his back nose goes up bum goes down. Worked for my westie.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I seem to have lost track of some of the posts so not sure what's happening, but are you aiming to have the Chi as an outdoors dog too? Or do you just mean he has free access to outside at all times? ( big difference )

Chi's really aren't bred to _live_ outside!

It's good to hear both dogs are getting along well. It's just a case of you now devoting time to each dog and adapting to a new routine as a multi dog household.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> I think the advice to wait until his 'balls have dropped' is just plain stupid if you ask me and it's a shame you seem to be receiving very odd advice from people around you in regards to dealing with him. I think it's sad you're not seeing the potential your dog has and just leaving him to be. If you actually posted for training advice I'm sure you'd receive lots of good advice and ways in which to strengthen that bond/learning. As like you said, you're learning too and training really is a great learning experience together.
> 
> What food have you changed him to?


cheap plain biscuits with wet meat mixed. He isn't good with just wet meat as he just seems to swallow it whole.

The thing is I didn't ask for training advice see, I asked about splitting them up.

I will be going on Saturady (on pay day) to pets at home and ask them whats the best mix I can get, as Muddy isn't good with wet, but Romeo doesn't like dry. 
the ''till his balls have dropped'' Was advice given by a dog owner of three Jack's who were very well behaved by his side while out on walks. I was also told to pin Muddy down on his back to show him who's boss! I refused to. also "Don't look Muddy in the eye because he will have to square up to you". Now I'm not so much the boss....so I am led to think that they were right? 
Just like I was told by farmers (I lived in a village with farms and trees everywhere) to whip the bottom of my lab x collie with a whipping stick......because the collie in him is too ''stubborn''. I refused to and just spent day in day out with him for a week straight and he loved it and so did I. But Muddy didn't want to spend time training, the slightest noise and he is gone, and it would take forever to get his attention back. He will run for hours and he is happy running and sliding, so for the past few weeks I took a step back form training and left him be. And It has worked. He showed the other day, before Romeo's arrival, that he is more eager to learn now. But he does have the attention span of a nat. He's very much a Dori.


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## LittleHolly (Jun 15, 2015)

Holly my little Pomeranian x chihuahua get every excited come treat and training time, second she sees that treat bag and clicker shes at my feet sitting, giving paw, lying down, rolling over and everything before I even give a command or a treat! lol I usually give her a couple minutes to calm down before continuing. have you tried giving your pup a few minutes to calm down? also jack russells and patterdales are working type dogs if im thinking correct (apologize if im worng though) so they will naturally have a higher energy level which can come out on excitement. I feed both mine Bob and lush dry and wet food, wet food they only get 1 sachet a day and rest dry, it lasts a while so well worth the money and both my dogs like the food


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah...terriers don't really seem to learn very well with force based methods such as pushing the bum down and manipulating them into position. Not convinced it's the best way to train any breed personally but the more willing to do as you want types seem to pick things up that way faster than the more independent.

My dog gets filthy on his walks. A quick towel dry gets the worst of it off, an hour later he's pretty much clean again. I don't see why any dog would need bathing every day to be allowed to set foot in the living room? 

I'm not even sure what it is you're asking any more to be honest. What is it you want of the dogs? I'd drop all the dominance crap to be perfectly honest, it's outdated and based on studies on captive wolves which behave nothing like wild wolves which in turn behave nothing like dogs. It's like observing chimps in order to learn about human behaviour. Muddy probably is happy to learn. If you can find what motivates him. Treats don't cut it for all dogs, praise and petting certainly don't. My last dog worked for the opportunity to sniff things. He wouldn't entertain the idea of a treat outdoors.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Pets at Home will tell you what's in it for them and they are far from the cheapest supplier. Go back a few pages to the dog food index link I posted and get some unbiased advice. Also look at a few food manufacturers and see if they do trial packs. Bob and Lush do. See if it suits him better.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

o


Sarah1983 said:


> Yeah...terriers don't really seem to learn very well with force based methods such as pushing the bum down and manipulating them into position. Not convinced it's the best way to train any breed personally but the more willing to do as you want types seem to pick things up that way faster than the more independent.
> 
> My dog gets filthy on his walks. A quick towel dry gets the worst of it off, an hour later he's pretty much clean again. I don't see why any dog would need bathing every day to be allowed to set foot in the living room?
> 
> I'm not even sure what it is you're asking any more to be honest. What is it you want of the dogs? I'd drop all the dominance crap to be perfectly honest, it's outdated and based on studies on captive wolves which behave nothing like wild wolves which in turn behave nothing like dogs. It's like observing chimps in order to learn about human behaviour. Muddy probably is happy to learn. If you can find what motivates him. Treats don't cut it for all dogs, praise and petting certainly don't. My last dog worked for the opportunity to sniff things. He wouldn't entertain the idea of a treat outdoors.


OH WOW, so your dog roll's in foxes poo and dead animals too? Must be great to be able to just towel rub that thick black stink from his fur and then leave him rome around your home . . .


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> But a dog is dog.
> 
> As a personal choice I would prefer them to either both be indoor dogs or both outdoor dogs. I do not believe in treating them differently. you wouldn't let one child sleep in a bed and the other to sleep on the floor....you wouldn't allow one child to have sweets and not give to the other. So why should I expect to treat the dogs differently? i.e. Leaving one in the living room and the other not?


Answered your own question perhaps... A dog is a dog not a child. And different breeds and dogs place different values on different item.

I'd imagine Muddy places higher value on mud than sofas and Romeo the opposite... So whilst you may wish to train them to be both indoors for your ease or whatever they aren't going to see it as unfair if one is outside and the other inside.


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## Aahlly (Sep 12, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> But Muddy would have to be bathed every night before coming into the living room, he is a very Muddy Muddy lol. (hence the naming) Romeo is more fussy and doesn't want to get dirty (yet).
> Can I bath a dog every night? Im sure that is bad for their coat? I just don't want Muddy to feel pushed out at all. Im taring my hair out and nervous, but i need to think fast.


Genuine question to all: is it alright for a dog to be standing in mud all day? I know with the horses it's something we try to avoid as much as possible. I wouldn't have thought it would be good for the dog's paws to be wet and dirt all the time. Wouldn't this break the skin down?


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Aahlly said:


> Genuine question to all: is it alright for a dog to be standing in mud all day? I know with the horses it's something we try to avoid as much as possible. I wouldn't have thought it would be good for the dog's paws to be wet and dirt all the time. Wouldn't this break the skin down?


Muddy is fine his pads are strong, and his nails are kept down, there is a path, and the kitchen floor.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Bakers is muck.

Terriers are incredibly intelligent, active, independent and usually prey-driven, and patterdales have that in spades (which is why I would never have one - they're brilliant, but terrier obsessed though I am, I couldn't cope with one).

He sounds bright and energetic and with brains for three.

They both have different wants and needs - give them what is appropriate.

Muddy likes the garden - leave him out there! Chi likes the house - leave him in!

Muddy isn't allowed in the living room and you're afraid he will get jealous of the chi, who likes the warmth and is used to getting on the furniture - if it worries you, give the chi one of those padded tent-like beds you can get for cats (warm and draught-free) and leave it in the kitchen (where Muddy also is). Chi will get irritated with Muddy bouncing on them - split them up for a while when this happens - it's just over-excitement but you don't want it escalating into a fight - even a play-fight. Personally I wouldn't separate them - if they're living together they need to get used to each other and find a comfortable way of co-existing, and they will do this themselves as long as you make sure they don't start snapping at each other - anything like that, distract them and calm them down.

Patties have a huge prey-drive - it's what they are bred for and they are extremely reactive - this leads to them getting over-excited quite easily and they literally *cannot hear you* because they become so focussed on what they are doing. You may have to physically intervene. If you let them play together and enjoy themselves, but monitor it so it doesn't get out of hand, they'll become friends.

And calm down - nobody is picking on you! There are some straight talkers here, and print doesn't let us show intonation or facial expression, so often comes across as being brusque. Try not to be sensitive about people's comments.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

shirleystarr said:


> Hi I wonder if you live in South Wales do you want to keep the Chi just asking * you used a welch word for cuddle* that's why I am asking


What word is that (I'm a nosey bugger!)


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

danielled said:


> No need to push his bum down, just show him the treat at nose height move the treat towards his back nose goes up bum goes down. Worked for my westie.


Well my very clever intelligent Patterjack just walked backwards lol . . . . so gently showing him that the command "sit" went with this motion i.e. rubbing down his back towards his bottom pushing his bottom towards the floor helped him understand what it meant (it just took a long time). 
It worked well with my Lab I had as little girl, the german shepherd I had as a teen, the cross staff boarder collie I rehomed and retrained 16years ago, and My last dog lab x boarder collie too.....


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Romeo&beast said:


> May I ask, are they both the same breed? are they both the same sex? and how old are they now? How long have they been together?
> I will check out equafleece, never even heard of that before. I think it is a typical short haired white coat apple head chi. so by any chance would you know what size it is please?


Equifleece are great - all our dogs have them. If you go on their site you will find all the details about how to measure your dog, sizes etc. We have them for a westie, a staffie and a great dane. they are water resistant, warm, wash well and dry quickly and the dogs LOVE them. Our staffie (no longer with us, alas) used to put her paws up to slip them into the sleeves - she looked so cute in hers.


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

I think the thread title is right - it does sound like you need help lol.  xx

I have two very different dogs. One is a an 11 1/2 year old Rough Collie and the other is a 3 year old German Spitz cross (he's only 5kg and she is 25kg just to give you an idea of the size difference!)

Whisper (Rough Collie) is fantastic off lead, never runs off, sticks to us like glue. She loves paddling in rivers, lakes and the sea. Loves to chase her ball. In the house - she doesn't play and doesn't enjoy training / tricks at all. Her typical walking pace is a plod lol. Her fur is very thick and she hates the heat and loves the cold.

Teddy (German Spitz cross) is kept on lead most of the time. He only gets off-lead time in carefully selected places when we are sure other dogs aren't about as he loves other dogs and will go bombing over to them given a chance (he isn't given the chance!). He hates water and won't paddle. He even jumps over puddles! He isn't interested in chasing balls when he's out and about. He loves doing training - and gets very excited when he sees the clicker! He also feels the cold and has a jumper for cold nights and a fleece (Equaflleece) for outdoors. 

It's not hard to keep them both happy. We just treat them both as individuals and don't expect them to behave the same....... Whisper chucks everything off the sofa if we're out so she isn't allowed in the living room when we're out. Teddy is allowed as he behaves. Whisper sleeps on her own bed in our room, Teddy sleeps on our bed. Not a problem.......


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Romeo&beast said:


> How will I know .... I mean he loved being outside today he was shaking but still wanted to go out. I feel like a lose cannon right now. He has come to us form my partners ex, which isn't the best situation to be in as she isn't very talkative to us. she hasn't told me anything abut him what food he likes, what comforts he likes, how he sleeps, where he slept. I want to spend one on one time with Romeo to get to know him. But Muddy would have to be bathed every night before coming into the living room, he is a very Muddy Muddy lol. (hence the naming) Romeo is more fussy and doesn't want to get dirty (yet).
> *Can I bath a dog every night?* Im sure that is bad for their coat? I just don't want Muddy to feel pushed out at all. Im taring my hair out and nervous, but i need to think fast.


You can rinse him off every night - I wouldn't shampoo him too often. Mud should just rinse off okay.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

lostbear said:


> Bakers is muck.
> 
> Terriers are incredibly intelligent, active, independent and usually prey-driven, and patterdales have that in spades (which is why I would never have one - they're brilliant, but terrier obsessed though I am, I couldn't cope with one).
> 
> ...


OMG a cat bed . . GENIUS! I so would not have thought of a cat bed for a dog. 
I can't cope with Muddy on the best of days. Especially the prey-driven. He always manages to sniff out dead rodents but never sniffs out a dropped treat lol 
The Chi does get irritated quickly. 
The "cannot hear you" bit is him all over..... It is always about what he is doing. The rat on a stick kept him busy for ages. But when he got hold of it he did NOT leave it go, I was told to look away from him and continue to say drop it. Was one hell of a battle. Which he has now got hold of his rat and he has ripped it to shreds.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

lostbear said:


> You can rinse him off every night - I wouldn't shampoo him too often. Mud should just rinse off okay.


the foxes poo doesn't, I am not 100% that is it that but its black and very sticky, just sticks all in his harness and fur very yuk


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Romeo&beast said:


> OMG a cat bed . . GENIUS! I so would not have thought of a cat bed for a dog.
> I can't cope with Muddy on the best of days. Especially the prey-driven. He always manages to sniff out dead rodents but never sniffs out a dropped treat lol
> The Chi does get irritated quickly.
> The "cannot hear you" bit is him all over..... It is always about what he is doing. The rat on a stick kept him busy for ages. But *when he got hold of it he did NOT leave it go*, I was told to look away from him and continue to say drop it. Was one hell of a battle. Which he has now got hold of his rat and he has ripped it to shreds.


That's terrier behaviour, too, I'm afraid - they'll shake or chew or rip rings to destruction.

You've got two rat-killing breeds in one there, so his whole instinct is to grab, shake and destroy. (Make sure he doesn't grab Romeo, even in play, as he could hurt him badly if he shakes him, even though he may not mean to.) If you want to see terriers at work, there are quite a few videos on You tube that show working terriers dealing with rats - it's both revolting and impressive.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Romeo&beast said:


> the foxes poo doesn't, I am not 100% that is it that but its black and very sticky, just sticks all in his harness and fur very yuk


Your nose will tell you if it's fox muck - trust me on this one!


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> I seem to have lost track of some of the posts so not sure what's happening, but are you aiming to have the Chi as an outdoors dog too? Or do you just mean he has free access to outside at all times? ( big difference )
> 
> Chi's really aren't bred to _live_ outside!
> 
> It's good to hear both dogs are getting along well. It's just a case of you now devoting time to each dog and adapting to a new routine as a multi dog household.


I think I am going to get the cat bed for a dog  not that I would have ever thought of a cat bed for a dog. 
Leaving it out the kitchen with the door still open for Muddy as the cat bed prevents draft for the Chi to have somewhere to go for warmth. 
Also looking to get a coat for the Chi. I gathered it isn't meant to be an outside dog. But with the cat bed answer I think that would make it so they both can live in the kitchen with only allocated times for living room time still being able to keep the back door open for Muddy


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

lostbear said:


> That's terrier behaviour, too, I'm afraid - they'll shake or chew or rip rings to destruction.
> 
> You've got two rat-killing breeds in one there, so his whole instinct is to grab, shake and destroy. (Make sure he doesn't grab Romeo, even in play, as he could hurt him badly if he shakes him, even though he may not mean to.) If you want to see terriers at work, there are quite a few videos on You tube that show working terriers dealing with rats - it's both revolting and impressive.


so far Muddy seems to be being gentle with Romeo...so far... Romeo is quite the character with a touch of shot man syndrome. He will happily tell Muddy off already.  and I take the Rat Killing breed mixed in him is why he LOVES dead rodents and wildlife then


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

lostbear said:


> Your nose will tell you if it's fox muck - trust me on this one!


I haven't gt a sense of Smell I know My partner is always complaining about the stench coming from Muddy. Apparently the brook stinks too and he always flies in that  lol


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> So please everyone, don't think that I am ignorant to dogs and their needs.





Romeo&beast said:


> Was advice given by a dog owner of three Jack's who were very well behaved by his side while out on walks. I was also told to pin Muddy down on his back to show him who's boss! I refused to. also "Don't look Muddy in the eye because he will have to square up to you". Now I'm not so much the boss....so I am led to think that they were right?


If you are thinking that this advice might be right, you are ignorant of dogs and their needs.



Romeo&beast said:


> OH WOW, so your dog roll's in foxes poo and dead animals too? Must be great to be able to just towel rub that thick black stink from his fur and then leave him rome around your home . . .


If you genuinely find it surprising that many dogs roll in disgustingness, you are ignorant of dogs and their needs.



Romeo&beast said:


> Well my very clever intelligent Patterjack just walked backwards lol


Yet again, do you know how many dogs will back up instead of sit when lured? It is incredibly common and no indication of a dog's intelligence. It is however an indication of the trainer's competence 

I can say I'm a swimsuit model, doesn't make it true.
You can say you're not ignorant, doesn't make it true.
BTW I mean ignorant as in lacking in knowledge, not meant in a derogatory way. Same way I would say I am ignorant of the inner workings of a car engine. Clearly, by your own posts, you are ignorant of a lot of things regarding dogs.

I would strongly recommend to you to read back through this thread and really take note of the many useful and knowledgeable suggestions you have been given. You will see several of them repeating - there is a reason for that


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Terriers are really really clever , my little terrier learned the 'bow' in no time at all with the aid of a clicker !! My lad understands what the click means so he learns quicker

http://s305.photobucket.com/user/pa...3-4032-967A-97FD326C9766_zpsvmtyp6ce.mp4.html


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I find fox poo preferable to my dogs favourite eau de stagnant ditch. And yup, lots of dogs roll in all sorts of nasty things but don't get bathed constantly and are still allowed in the living room and other areas of the house. I've cleaned fox poo, frog guts and all sorts off my dogs and removed rotting, maggot ridden carcasses from one of them.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> I find fox poo preferable to my dogs favourite eau de stagnant ditch. And yup, lots of dogs roll in all sorts of nasty things but don't get bathed constantly and are still allowed in the living room and other areas of the house. I've cleaned fox poo, frog guts and all sorts off my dogs and removed rotting, maggot ridden carcasses from one of them.


My terrier is four and he has never had a single bath in his life


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Aahlly said:


> Genuine question to all: is it alright for a dog to be standing in mud all day? I know with the horses it's something we try to avoid as much as possible. I wouldn't have thought it would be good for the dog's paws to be wet and dirt all the time. Wouldn't this break the skin down?


It's exactly the same, but dogs don't stand in mud, they run round and dry off quickly. Being wet and dirty all the time will lead to just as many skin issues as horses have. Mine is just getting rid of the dread mud fever. 



lostbear said:


> What word is that (I'm a nosey bugger!)


Cwtch @lostbear, my favourite ever word. I lived in Wales for years.

Mine never have baths, even when they rolls in the run off from the muck heap, I'd just hose them at the yard!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

paddyjulie said:


> My terrier is four and he has never had a single bath in his life


Yeah - but if he's the one in the avatar he won't need it. Bullies just need a quick wipe down with an oily rag and they're bright as ninepence again,

There's something about bull terrier hair which makes it like armour - pretty much impervious to everything - water repellent most of the time, too. Our Grace was like a greased-up seal when she got wet - schlupped through your arms like she was shot out of a cannon!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

lostbear said:


> Yeah - but if he's the one in the avatar he won't need it. Bullies just need a quick wipe down with an oily rag and they're bright as ninepence again,
> 
> There's something about bull terrier hair which makes it like armour - pretty much impervious to everything - water repellent most of the time, too. Our Grace was like a greased-up seal when she got wet - schlupped through your arms like she was shot out of a cannon!


Hehe , funny

I was meaning my little Manchester , but tbh now I think back my bull terrier hasn't had one for a few year before we got him, so I'd say it's been six year for her at least , lol and she doesn't smell and is still lovely and white .

I just don't bath them ever ! I have no need too . I do think people over bath their dogs


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

You can not force a Terrier to do anything they don't want to do, they are an awesome group of dogs but strong willed and very independent (as they need/needed to be to do the job at hand).

I have 2 Jacks, OHs parents have a Jack and my mum has a Patterdale X Border.

There are NO flies on these four (Apart from when they roll in sh*t).

Working with your dog is the way forward as it is for any breed.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Pupcakes said:


> You can not force a Terrier to do anything they don't want to do, they are an awesome group of dogs but strong willed and very independent (as they need/needed to be to do the job at hand).
> 
> I have 2 Jacks, OHs parents have a Jack and my mum has a Patterdale X Border.
> 
> ...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Romeo&beast said:


> I will quote my words again "he gets way too excited with me and tries to hump my arm if we have any us time."
> He only gets excited during "US" time, not during training time!!
> 
> Why isn't anyone reading these thing's correctly?
> ...


And you have been answered; it is not necessary to separate them unless you are leaving them alone. For the pup's sake, he is growing and could get hurt. If he is humping your arm, which is perfectly natural behaviour, just remove him and ignore him for a minute or two. He will soon get the message. This is a forum, where people will give their opinions when asked a question and sometimes those opinions wander from the original question. That is what forums are for. However, if you want a specific answer, which you have had, your best bet is treat other members with civility.

You obviously do need help with training if you think a week or two is a long time to teach a young pup anything.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Romeo&beast said:


> He is dull and clumsy and ignorant, He refuses to listen, ...


That sounds very familiar. I wonder where he gets that from?

The video you posted does not show me a stupid dog; it shows me a dog who is very aware of what is going on outside the car, and it shows me dogs who chase their tails. Chasing tails is accepted to be caused by anxiety, not stupidity. I also see a dog who is chained up, an intelligent animal who has a stupid owner. I call my dog stupid sometimes, but not in the derogatory way you have here; he is actually a very intelligent dog, as is yours if you have taught him all those things in such a short space of time. He is a terrier; what did you expect? The definition of the word 'ignorant' is unknowing, uneducated; if he is ignorant it is because you haven't taught him.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> That sounds very familiar. I wonder where he gets that from?
> 
> The video you posted does not show me a stupid dog; it shows me a dog who is very aware of what is going on outside the car, and it shows me dogs who chase their tails. Chasing tails is accepted to be caused by anxiety, not stupidity. I also see a dog who is chained up, an intelligent animal who has a stupid owner. I call my dog stupid sometimes, but not in the derogatory way you have here; he is actually a very intelligent dog, as is yours if you have taught him all those things in such a short space of time. He is a terrier; what did you expect? The definition of the word 'ignorant' is unknowing, uneducated; if he is ignorant it is because you haven't taught him.


Oh, come on - things have just calmed down. No need to stir up ill-feeling again.

OP has taken some suggestions on board re: helping them learn to love each other and training methods that might be helpful. Can't see the point in getting a dig in now.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

lostbear said:


> Oh, come on - things have just calmed down. No need to stir up ill-feeling again.
> 
> OP has taken some suggestions on board re: helping them learn to love each other and training methods that might be helpful. Can't see the point in getting a dig in now.


In that case, I apologise for stirring things up again, but not for my post. I only saw the latest one and couldn't resist. I haven't read the whole thread. I do hope the poster does take the advice onboard, and acts on it.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

cinnamontoast said:


> It's exactly the same, but dogs don't stand in mud, they run round and dry off quickly. Being wet and dirty all the time will lead to just as many skin issues as horses have. Mine is just getting rid of the dread mud fever.
> 
> Cwtch @lostbear, my favourite ever word. I lived in Wales for years.
> 
> Mine never have baths, even when they rolls in the run off from the muck heap, I'd just hose them at the yard!


Muddy loves the hose, it is his fav play time though. He bounces around attacking the spray from the hose gun


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

newfiesmum said:


> That sounds very familiar. I wonder where he gets that from?
> 
> The video you posted does not show me a stupid dog; it shows me a dog who is very aware of what is going on outside the car, and it shows me dogs who chase their tails. Chasing tails is accepted to be caused by anxiety, not stupidity. I also see a dog who is chained up, an intelligent animal who has a stupid owner. I call my dog stupid sometimes, but not in the derogatory way you have here; he is actually a very intelligent dog, as is yours if you have taught him all those things in such a short space of time. He is a terrier; what did you expect? The definition of the word 'ignorant' is unknowing, uneducated; if he is ignorant it is because you haven't taught him.


You know that it has already been said that The PatterJack is a mix of two rat-killing breeds? and will also play the "cannot hear you'' card? And be more focused on what he is doing..... 
Which means that he "ignores" my efforts of communication....


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

ouesi said:


> If you are thinking that this advice might be right, you are ignorant of dogs and their needs.
> 
> If you genuinely find it surprising that many dogs roll in disgustingness, you are ignorant of dogs and their needs.
> 
> ...


You know I said that I REFUSED to take that advice I was given right??? 
And the whole "OH WOW Your dog rolls in animal shit and dead rodents too" comment was me being sarcy! 
And where have I said that I haven't taken the advice? I am sure that I have said thank you to the those who gave advice that suits my PatterJack???

Love how people just read one thing and get on their high horse!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Got to admit I never thought of terriers as stupid...independent, bolshy and likely to think they know better then you maybe, but not stupid!
Im kinda confused at this attitude where both dogs must be treated exactly the same, its not something Ive ever heard of before. Im just imagining a rough and tumble outdoor terrier being dragged into the house all the time for cuddles whilst a people orientated indoor chi is being forced into the cold garden all so both dogs can be 'equal' in the humans eyes (probably making both dogs miserable coz its not the life they want).

Personally Id try and work out if either dog really did feel jealous by playing with the terrier in front of the chi and cuddling the chi in front of the terrier. If neither one looks that bothered then chances are they are happy!

As for a magically trained within a week dog? That sounds wonderful, and very, very lucky. My 4 are the same 2 breeds and were all trained the same way from puppies. However number 4 is a complete nightmare and actually took a month and a half to learn how to sit! He still needs alot more management then the other three. I dont think he is 'stupid' or that Ive changed my methods though, he is just a complex character who needs extra support.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

catz4m8z said:


> Got to admit I never thought of terriers as stupid...independent, bolshy and likely to think they know better then you maybe, but not stupid!
> Im kinda confused at this attitude where both dogs must be treated exactly the same, its not something Ive ever heard of before. Im just imagining a rough and tumble outdoor terrier being dragged into the house all the time for cuddles whilst a people orientated indoor chi is being forced into the cold garden all so both dogs can be 'equal' in the humans eyes (probably making both dogs miserable coz its not the life they want).
> 
> Personally Id try and work out if either dog really did feel jealous by playing with the terrier in front of the chi and cuddling the chi in front of the terrier. If neither one looks that bothered then chances are they are happy!
> ...


OK we have covered the whole stupid comment,
If we were sat together in a pub having a drink and talking about our pets, and I laughed about me stupid dog then I am almost certain that those around the table would laugh and tell stories of their stupid dogs or cats!!! Get over it and drop it!

As for both dogs being treated the same....well YES! 
And they seem to have adapted well to both being outdoor dogs. The chi is thriving and following the protecting PatterJack and guarding the home and their garden. I am now closing the door earlier for the Chi's benefits until I get a cat bed that was advised to me. 
I am also looking into links that were sent to me on other things. Especially the food. But this is day three of no bakers complete and it is making a small difference.

As for "Magically" trained dog within a week. YES!! 
It is possible, VERY possible, you just dedicate your full time and attention every day with the same routine. And you make sure the dog has an empty tummy during training, as they will respond better from wanting the treats. During this time I was pregnant and at home all the time. So I had no other commitments other than my dog. He was trained to be around children so I also done things like take his food bowl and water bowl from him while he was eating/drinking, as if a child was there moving his bowl. He adapted very well. And fully thrived from showing off to visitors doing his tricks. He never once growled at the children either.

This is him with a dog he had never met before that picture


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Romeo&beast said:


> And they seem to have adapted well to both being outdoor dogs. The chi is thriving and following the protecting PatterJack and guarding the home and their garden.
> 
> As for "Magically" trained dog within a week. YES!!
> It is possible, VERY possible,


Im not sure why you are trying to make both dogs outdoor dogs though when you live in the UK and winter is coming up? Chihuahuas are _not_ outdoor dogs. They are too people orientated to appreciate spending most of their time away from their owners and even with a jumper they are too small and thin coated to live outdoors in the winter. My short coated chi usually manages about half an hour with a coat on for walks in the winter before she wants to get back to her heated dog bed!

Also Im not saying its impossible to train a puppy within a week...Im saying that not all dogs are the same and even though I had identical breeds from identical ages with identical methods they were all different to train because they all had individual personalities.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> He was trained to be around children so I also done things like take his food bowl and water bowl from him while he was eating/drinking, as if a child was there moving his bowl.


You got lucky.

Please don't think this is a good thing to do or the right way to make a dog kid safe. 
In addition to "When Pigs Fly" you might also really benefit from either "Bones Would Rain from the Sky" by Suzanne Clothier, or "Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson.


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## keaneojericho (Oct 31, 2015)

i do not believe your dog is thick he could suffer from a dog type of ADHD or a slight form of _Tourettes_


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

OP I believe you said you are in Wales - its not even been a cold Autumn yet let alone Winter so while your Chi is no doubt happy running around the garden with your other dog at the moment that doesn't mean he will be in the winter. Can you not be flexible? adapt? take things as they come and play it by ear? You seem to want everything clear cut and dogs are rarely like that. For instance at 11 months of age my current rottie had to undergo major orthopaedic surgery which meant she could not get on the furniture or go up the stairs, my other two dogs continued to get on the furniture and go upstairs to bed at night. I did sleep downstairs on the sofa next to her pen but that was out of concern for her health and so that I could monitor her, after the 6 weeks when she was allowed out of the pen I went back up to bed and she stayed downstairs on her own for the next 18 months. She has just started to be allowed back upstairs now although often she doesn't bother or comes back down on her own. She doesn't resent my other dogs because they were allowed to do things she couldn't. Its best not to create a rod for your own back.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> OP I believe you said you are in Wales - its not even been a cold Autumn yet let alone Winter so while your Chi is no doubt happy running around the garden with your other dog at the moment that doesn't mean he will be in the winter. Can you not be flexible? adapt? take things as they come and play it by ear? You seem to want everything clear cut and dogs are rarely like that. For instance at 11 months of age my current rottie had to undergo major orthopaedic surgery which meant she could not get on the furniture or go up the stairs, my other two dogs continued to get on the furniture and go upstairs to bed at night. I did sleep downstairs on the sofa next to her pen but that was out of concern for her health and so that I could monitor her, after the 6 weeks when she was allowed out of the pen I went back up to bed and she stayed downstairs on her own for the next 18 months. She has just started to be allowed back upstairs now although often she doesn't bother or comes back down on her own. She doesn't resent my other dogs because they were allowed to do things she couldn't. Its best not to create a rod for your own back.


ok, So we will put it like this.
If you had trained all your dogs to be kept in the kitchen instead of all over the home, you would not have even come to that problem with your Rottie in the first place. It would have been fine for your rottie then to not feel left out as they would have all been in the same place? and I wouldn't be surprised if she got a little depressed seeing the others being allowed all over the home. 
So yes, I think long term. They are dogs after all not children..... Now see if I ever come to the problem of one needing an operation for example, They are already both used to being in one place


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

ouesi said:


> You got lucky.
> 
> Please don't think this is a good thing to do or the right way to make a dog kid safe.
> In addition to "When Pigs Fly" you might also really benefit from either "Bones Would Rain from the Sky" by Suzanne Clothier, or "Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson.


I will ask, why are you all fixated on books? 
A book can't tell you what your dog will be like as we have clearly established that all dogs are different right?

It can give you other ideas, but surely us as a human race we can still think outside of the box by ourselves? 
Before all these sites and books and stuff, dogs still existed right? They were fine then weren't they?


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> If you had trained all your dogs to be kept in the kitchen instead of all over the home, you would not have even come to that problem with your Rottie in the first place. It would have been fine for your rottie then to not feel left out as they would have all been in the same place? and I wouldn't be surprised if she got a little depressed seeing the others being allowed all over the home.


Did you read what RPH wrote?
It was NOT a problem. The dog did NOT feel left out.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> I will ask, why are you all fixated on books?
> A book can't tell you what your dog will be like as we have clearly established that all dogs are different right?
> 
> It can give you other ideas, but surely us as a human race we can still think outside of the box by ourselves?
> Before all these sites and books and stuff, dogs still existed right? They were fine then weren't they?


You realize there have been books on dog training since books have been around right? It's not a new thing to write about training dogs. Why would you think books are about telling you what your dog will be like? 
And no, I'm not fixated on books, but I do find it amusing that the person fixated with their dog being stupid and that both dogs be treated exactly the same is accusing me of being fixated about something 

It seems you have it all figured out and know it all already so I'm really not sure what you're hoping to get out of asking questions on a dog forum....


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Romeo&beast said:


> and I wouldn't be surprised if she got a little depressed seeing the others being allowed all over the home.
> They are dogs after all not children...


True, they are dogs and not people so they dont get depressed coz they think another dog is getting a better deal then them! They tend to only care about what they want, when they want it!

Personally if I was you I would fit a cat flap so both dogs could come and go and the chi didnt freeze in the winter. Then I would decide a cut off point to when the mud monster was allowed out til....after that bring him in, brush all the mud off when he was dry and then both dogs could come into the living room for fuss.
Just find a plan that suits both dogs and stick to it. They are an extremely adaptable animal after all.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

@Romeo&beast why are you here exactly?

I mean, we've all given you plenty of useful, non judgemental advice on your situation but you seem to be blatantly ignoring most of what is said, and I'm saddened to read you used to remove the water and food bowl away from your older dog. You were lucky with that one dog, as many dogs won't tolerate such interference and it has nothing to do with dominance. I really fear you're creating problems for the future with your non committal approach to your dog/s. But I think you're going to do and listen to whatever advice suits you best anyway so I think we're all wasting our breath here.


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## keaneojericho (Oct 31, 2015)

half of you lot think you are Barbra Woodhouse its a dog my dog is thick as **** i let him do his own thing


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

keaneojericho said:


> half of you lot think you are Barbra Woodhouse its a dog my dog is thick as **** i let him do his own thing


???


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> ok, So we will put it like this.
> If you had trained all your dogs to be kept in the kitchen instead of all over the home, you would not have even come to that problem with your Rottie in the first place. It would have been fine for your rottie then to not feel left out as they would have all been in the same place? and I wouldn't be surprised if she got a little depressed seeing the others being allowed all over the home.
> So yes, I think long term. They are dogs after all not children..... Now see if I ever come to the problem of one needing an operation for example, They are already both used to being in one place


yes running up and down the garden playing in the mud and guarding your fence - if one of yours does ever need orthopaedic surgery then you will have to use a pen or a crate so one will not be running about the garden. None of my dogs in 30 years have been kept in a kitchen thanks. Might suit some people and some dogs but not ours, and no she didn't get depressed because believe it or not from a puppy she was used to them doing things that she couldn't - different breeds, different needs and all that


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

keaneojericho said:


> half of you lot think you are Barbra Woodhouse its a dog my dog is thick as **** i let him do his own thing


And your point is? And by the way some of the posters responding on this site are professional dog trainers/behaviourists/veterinary nurses and even a couple of vets.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

ouesi said:


> You realize there have been books on dog training since books have been around right? It's not a new thing to write about training dogs. Why would you think books are about telling you what your dog will be like?
> And no, I'm not fixated on books, but I do find it amusing that the person fixated with their dog being stupid and that both dogs be treated exactly the same is accusing me of being fixated about something
> 
> It seems you have it all figured out and know it all already so I'm really not sure what you're hoping to get out of asking questions on a dog forum....


are we still on the stupid comment WOW 
he is a stupid clumsy scrap yard dog! End of! 
And I have never had to read books about training dogs. And ALL my dogs were just fine! 
I joined here to ask about the Chihuahua because so many different things are said.

But, He is out the garden and is fine. He is loving it and he is also looking at Muddy STUPID! So if other canines are looking at him stupid as well what does that tell you??


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Romeo&beast said:


> are we still on the stupid comment WOW
> he is a stupid clumsy scrap yard dog! End of!
> And I have never had to read books about training dogs. And ALL my dogs were just fine!
> I joined here to ask about the Chihuahua because so many different things are said.
> ...


Judging by the above post I suspect this poster is about 10 or 11 years old. You can't reason with a kid at that age you know. Maybe it's time to stop trying.


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## keaneojericho (Oct 31, 2015)

behaviourists what they are they going to tell me my do needs therapy yeah ok i am going to fork out 200 quid for some *Freud*; of the dog world to tell me my dog is a basket case with anger issues because his mother didnt love him enough


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> I will ask, why are you all fixated on books?
> A book can't tell you what your dog will be like as we have clearly established that all dogs are different right?
> 
> It can give you other ideas, but surely us as a human race we can still think outside of the box by ourselves?
> Before all these sites and books and stuff, dogs still existed right? They were fine then weren't they?


Its called education. These days you can also do it on the internet not just in books. There are whole sites and organisations dedicated to the training and welfare of dogs. You might like to take a look at some of them.

https://positively.com/victoria-stilwell/

http://www.dogstardaily.com/


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

keaneojericho said:


> behaviourists what they are they going to tell me my do needs therapy yeah ok i am going to fork out 200 quid for some *Freud*; of the dog world to tell me my dog is a basket case with anger issues because his mother didnt love him enough


Oops, you forgot to change back to the other account before replying 
I'm pretty sure multiple accounts aren't permitted.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

keaneojericho said:


> behaviourists what they are they going to tell me my do needs therapy yeah ok i am going to fork out 200 quid for some *Freud*; of the dog world to tell me my dog is a basket case with anger issues because his mother didnt love him enough


:Hilarious:Hilarious no they are more likely to tell you that you are the basket case and that your dog would be better off with a different owner who actually understands dogs.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

keaneojericho said:


> behaviourists what they are they going to tell me my do needs therapy yeah ok i am going to fork out 200 quid for some *Freud*; of the dog world to tell me my dog is a basket case with anger issues because his mother didnt love him enough


I think you need to learn how to punctuate


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> yes running up and down the garden playing in the mud and guarding your fence - if one of yours does ever need orthopaedic surgery then you will have to use a pen or a crate so one will not be running about the garden. None of my dogs in 30 years have been kept in a kitchen thanks. Might suit some people and some dogs but not ours, and no she didn't get depressed because believe it or not from a puppy she was used to them doing things that she couldn't - different breeds, different needs and all that


If you say so, but most dogs who undergo surgery and have to lay there and do nothing get some form of depression!

And yes, you might enjoy dogs running all over your home, I would be very interested to know the smell of your home and the cleanness of your home. Or anyones homes for that matter. with so many animals running freely around and sleeping in their beds.......
I know for a fact that after having one of my dogs as an indoor around the house type of dog, despite my mother telling me not to. I have now said NEVER again!! And it is great. Everywhere in the home is clean and tidy, the only floor that gets dirty is the kitchen floor. I haven't got to worry about dog hair everywhere or the smell of dog everywhere. No matter how much you clean it will always smell of dog. It is great to have pets. But so many stopped coming to my old home when I had my Lab, as the house was very much a dogs house he would be the first to greet them and be excited to see them and some people just didn't want it! As not everyone are dog lovers.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Schools are open again on Monday aren't they?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Romeo&beast said:


> I also done things like take his food bowl and water bowl from him while he was eating/drinking, as if a child was there moving his bowl.


Please do not, ever, take his food bowl away while he is eating. What would you do if you were enjoying your dinner and some idiot came along and snatched your plate away? If you want to teach the dog to guard his food and to be thoroughly miserable while eating, go ahead. I expect to be left in peace while I am eating, and I think dogs appreciate the same. You should keep children away from dogs who are eating, out of respect for the dog and his comfort.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Romeo&beast said:


> If you say so, but most dogs who undergo surgery and have to lay there and do nothing get some form of depression!
> 
> And yes, you might enjoy dogs running all over your home, I would be very interested to know the smell of your home and the cleanness of your home. Or anyones homes for that matter. with so many animals running freely around and sleeping in their beds.......
> I know for a fact that after having one of my dogs as an indoor around the house type of dog, despite my mother telling me not to. I have now said NEVER again!! And it is great. Everywhere in the home is clean and tidy, the only floor that gets dirty is the kitchen floor. I haven't got to worry about dog hair everywhere or the smell of dog everywhere. No matter how much you clean it will always smell of dog. It is great to have pets. But so many stopped coming to my old home when I had my Lab, as the house was very much a dogs house he would be the first to greet them and be excited to see them and some people just didn't want it! As not everyone are dog lovers.


Whoa, what a way to offend those of us with our dogs as indoor pets......

I can assure you my home doesn't smell doggy. In fact, I have a wonderful scent of Ambi pur plug in air freshener as I sit here typing


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> If you say so, but most dogs who undergo surgery and have to lay there and do nothing get some form of depression!
> 
> And yes, you might enjoy dogs running all over your home, I would be very interested to know the smell of your home and the cleanness of your home. Or anyones homes for that matter. with so many animals running freely around and sleeping in their beds.......
> I know for a fact that after having one of my dogs as an indoor around the house type of dog, despite my mother telling me not to. I have now said NEVER again!! And it is great. Everywhere in the home is clean and tidy, the only floor that gets dirty is the kitchen floor. I haven't got to worry about dog hair everywhere or the smell of dog everywhere. No matter how much you clean it will always smell of dog. It is great to have pets. But so many stopped coming to my old home when I had my Lab, as the house was very much a dogs house he would be the first to greet them and be excited to see them and some people just didn't want it! As not everyone are dog lovers.


How many dogs have you personally looked after following major orthopaedic surgery? They don't just lay there - you do have to put a bit of effort into keeping them happy, you know spend some time with them, give them things to do, special treats and brain games etc.

As to whether my house smells of dog or not, frankly dear I don't give a damn. It gets cleaned every day with a high power pet hoover and the floors get steam cleaned when necessary. There are far worse things than a bit of dog hair (personally I find the smell of babies nappies and vomit far more gross but again each to their own) and I have no interest in having visitors to my house who don't like dogs.


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Romeo&beast said:


> If you say so, but most dogs who undergo surgery and have to lay there and do nothing get some form of depression!
> 
> And yes, you might enjoy dogs running all over your home, I would be very interested to know the smell of your home and the cleanness of your home. Or anyones homes for that matter. with so many animals running freely around and sleeping in their beds.......
> I know for a fact that after having one of my dogs as an indoor around the house type of dog, despite my mother telling me not to. I have now said NEVER again!! And it is great. Everywhere in the home is clean and tidy, the only floor that gets dirty is the kitchen floor. I haven't got to worry about dog hair everywhere or the smell of dog everywhere. No matter how much you clean it will always smell of dog. It is great to have pets. But so many stopped coming to my old home when I had my Lab, as the house was very much a dogs house he would be the first to greet them and be excited to see them and some people just didn't want it! As not everyone are dog lovers.


Lol. Funny then that despite having one of the hariest breeds out there we've just managed to sell our house. .....

And with all the viewings we had (and there were a fair few!) not one person had anything negative to say about the cleanliness or the smell of our house.

It's not hard to have dogs everywhere in the house whilst keeping it clean and smelling fresh.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

newfiesmum said:


> Please do not, ever, take his food bowl away while he is eating. What would you do if you were enjoying your dinner and some idiot came along and snatched your plate away? If you want to teach the dog to guard his food and to be thoroughly miserable while eating, go ahead. I expect to be left in peace while I am eating, and I think dogs appreciate the same. You should keep children away from dogs who are eating, out of respect for the dog and his comfort.


Completely agree, another thing don't take water away. They need water available 24/7.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Oh I freely admit my house smells like dog. But my dogs smell good (when they're not being skunked) so it's not an issue. 
We get plenty of visitors too, but because the dogs have been taught how to behave with visitors, that's not an issue either. Just had a bunch of kids over last weekend and they all got filthy and wet and stinky down at the stream, I still let them back in the house


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> @Romeo&beast why are you here exactly?
> 
> I mean, we've all given you plenty of useful, non judgemental advice on your situation but you seem to be blatantly ignoring most of what is said, and I'm saddened to read you used to remove the water and food bowl away from your older dog. You were lucky with that one dog, as many dogs won't tolerate such interference and it has nothing to do with dominance. I really fear you're creating problems for the future with your non committal approach to your dog/s. But I think you're going to do and listen to whatever advice suits you best anyway so I think we're all wasting our breath here.


If you actually read most of what people are saying to me it is all picking on one word, or things I didn't even ask for.....
But .....I have THANKED those for the advice too! And taken somethings on board that might suit my STUPID patterjack (yes thats right I said that dreaded word again) 
as you just said "You were lucky with that one dog, as many dogs won't tolerate such interference" ....... Ok!! So you train them to tolerate it when you have little children in the home. THAT is what I done. just like now I am teaching Muddy and Romeo to not be territorial over their food and water bowl as we now have 6 children between us! 
If you do not teach the dog to tolerate such interference then they will continue to not tolerate such interference. It is pretty simple right? Dogs are like sponges they absorb information from a young age. It is the owners fault if they do not tolerate such interference!

AND where did you get the "non committal" approach from? 
I asked one simple question and everyone , well mostly everyone, has read way too much into it! I just wanted know about splitting the dogs up! thats all I wanted to know. I have just replied to what everyone has said. and after looking further more into some of these posts. I find it very concerning that most here are treating their dogs like humans then locking them in a cage/crate? Seriously now . . . .and I'm the one being badgered here? I find it all amusing!


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Hanlou said:


> Lol. Funny then that despite having one of the hariest breeds out there we've just managed to sell our house. .....
> 
> And with all the viewings we had (and there were a fair few!) not one person had anything negative to say about the cleanliness or the smell of our house.
> 
> It's not hard to have dogs everywhere in the house whilst keeping it clean and smelling fresh.


No stranger would tell you anyway, lets be real!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> as you just said "You were lucky with that one dog, as many dogs won't tolerate such interference" ....... Ok!! So you train them to tolerate it when you have little children in the home. THAT is what I done. just like now I am teaching Muddy and Romeo to not be territorial over their food and water bowl as we now have 6 children between us!


I'd suggest you read up on the difference between "desensitisation" and "sensitisation".

(Don't worry, you can find the info online, I'm not suggesting you buy a book......)


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

danielled said:


> Completely agree, another thing don't take water away. They need water available 24/7.


omg lol I did not TAKE it away and not give it back to him, just took it from him from a pup, on a regular basis..... you lot are comical


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Siskin said:


> Schools are open again on Monday aren't they?


Ive only just remembered this! now I feel kinda foolish!


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Err, yes - they would. They would certainly tell the Estate Agent anyway who always got feedback! I've certainly heard far worse feedback reports from other people selling their houses........


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Oops, you forgot to change back to the other account before replying
> I'm pretty sure multiple accounts aren't permitted.


CANNOT believe you are adamant that I have two accounts! that is how many times you have accused me of this now??? FOOL!!!


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

catz4m8z said:


> Ive only just remembered this! now I feel kinda foolish!


Roll on monday. A word beginning with T springs to mind with this member and you can't reason with those. They will go back to school on monday.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> omg lol I did not TAKE it away and not give it back to him, just took it from him from a pup, on a regular basis..... you lot are comical


Doesn't matter you still took it away. I never take my dogs water away I leave it where it is all the time because he needs to have water available. Roll on monday back to school.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> So you train them to tolerate it when you have little children in the home. THAT is what I done. just like now I am teaching Muddy and Romeo to not be territorial over their food and water bowl as we now have 6 children between us!
> If you do not teach the dog to tolerate such interference then they will continue to not tolerate such interference. It is pretty simple right? Dogs are like sponges they absorb information from a young age. It is the owners fault if they do not tolerate such interference!


Training a dog to tolerate their food being handled by taking their food away makes about as much sense as preparing for a famine by fasting.

As @SingingWhippet said, there is a huge difference between sensitization and desensitization and with 6 kids, you would do well to familiarize yourself with those concepts.

As a child I was always taught not to bother a dog who's eating or sleeping, I have taught my own children the same. 
I have two very large dogs who are perfectly safe not only with my own children but visiting kids as well. In fact my great dane just took her deer antler and went to lay down next to my daughter and put the deer antler in her lap because she is that comfortable with humans around her food and she wanted to cuddle "her" kid while chewing her bone. 
We did not achieve this by making the dogs afraid that any time a human approaches they might remove their food, snatch it away only to give it back and other oddness.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> CANNOT believe you are adamant that I have two accounts! that is how many times you have accused me of this now??? FOOL!!!


Once.
You are confusing me with LinznMilly.

And I don't think you are the other poster with the JRTX, I do think that post about the behaviorist was you. Same posting style, and "voice".

I'm not a fool, but you do have a tendency to project, perhaps you're on to something here


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Seriously you guys you are arguing with an 11 year old, or someone with the intellectual level of. not all 11 year olds, some are quite intelligent, usually the ones who read) I recommend you give it up now. There's lots of good advice in this thread should anyone else need it, but this troll is getting fat on your feeding of it.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Actually, I take that back. I am a fool for trying to have an intelligent conversation with this poster!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Im beginning to think the title of this thread should of been,
HELP ME!! or dont help me, I dont care...*sticks fingers in ears* coz 'LAH LAH LAH' I shant listen anyways!!

:Hilarious


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Romeo&beast said:


> If you actually read most of what people are saying to me it is all picking on one word, or things I didn't even ask for.....
> But .....I have THANKED those for the advice too! And taken somethings on board that might suit my STUPID patterjack (yes thats right I said that dreaded word again)
> as you just said "You were lucky with that one dog, as many dogs won't tolerate such interference" ....... Ok!! So you train them to tolerate it when you have little children in the home. THAT is what I done. just like now I am teaching Muddy and Romeo to not be territorial over their food and water bowl as we now have 6 children between us!
> If you do not teach the dog to tolerate such interference then they will continue to not tolerate such interference. It is pretty simple right? Dogs are like sponges they absorb information from a young age. It is the owners fault if they do not tolerate such interference!
> ...


But that method of training is not wise with young children in the house. And I've got three dogs all absolutely fine with me around their food/able to ask for them to back off etc without me ever having had to remove their bowls whilst they're eating. They trust that they can eat in peace.

A few links you may find interesting.

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die

http://shibashake.com/dog/stop-food-aggression-stop-resource-guarding

https://www.alldogsgym.com/training/articles/training/nh-sunday-news-dog-tracks-column-sp-1337606981

Both the bottom two links give some nice examples of why removing your dog's food bowl whilst he is eating is more harmful than good.

Non committal because you don't seem to want to engage with Muddy further. You seem only set on what you believe and are quoting advice you've been given previously as if it's 100% correct when most of it is nonsense unfortunately.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

oh dear seems like a few people of the internet are a little upset? 

lets be best buddies lmao 

I didn't realise that so many people live their life for their dog(s). 
My boy is treated like a dog, and he is very very happy. 
My methods might not be out of a book. But they have all worked very well. 
I have owned two dogs previously to owning the two I have now. 
I have never needed to take months training a dog nor have I needed a week just to teach a dog to "sit". 
I also have never needed a crate or cage. 
I have also not needed a lead when walking my dogs either. 
Only the one dog I had as an around the home type of dog and that was a nightmare. 
I also do not allow dogs in bed, the place I go after a nice hot shower where my pores are open and I'm all fresh and clean. 

Except for Muddy bless him. 
Even Romeo is better than him and listens better than him. 
Maybe it was where he came from before I had him . . . as he was being fed human chicken and other human foods as a few week old puppy. He was from a rough area too. Gets really excited over the smell of larger if we are having a drink at home. 

But within saying all that, Since the arrival of Romeo, Muddy now sits as I go in the kitchen instead of jumping all over me like he used to, and seems to listen even more as though he wants to prove to the new dog that he is a good dog. So I'm sure I just had the light bulb moment from him like the other jack owners told me would happen if I waited till his balls had dropped. So I will train him like I have trained my other dogs. 
I will say it one more time that I didn't come on here for training advice. I came here with one simple question.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> I came here with one simple question.


Which was answered, multiple times.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Romeo&beast said:


> oh dear seems like a few people of the internet are a little upset?
> 
> lets be best buddies lmao
> 
> ...


If you have a stupid dog how can he be good off lead? Only clever dogs have good recall 

Now you can retreat to where you came from, yes? You have your 'expert' knowledge on your dog and that's that. We offered genuine advice and have met with ridicule, disregard and seemingly being taken the piss out of.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

We are dealing with a superior force here people. Remember, this is the person who trained a 12 week old puppy to potty outside, sit, lie down, stay and speak, all in three days. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! <wiping eyes> whew I really did get a big laugh when I read that.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> But that method of training is not wise with young children in the house. And I've got three dogs all absolutely fine with me around their food/able to ask for them to back off etc without me ever having had to remove their bowls whilst they're eating. They trust that they can eat in peace.
> 
> A few links you may find interesting.
> 
> ...





ouesi said:


> Which was answered, multiple times.


uh I know . . . . But yet others here still seem to be going on and on and on about other things that are just not relevant to me. BUT I have taken on board some of it. And a fair few have just been going on at me, so I am going to stand my ground, or am I wrong for standing my ground with my own beliefs? 
This is quite healthy too by the looks of it, I seem to be the opposite of near enough everyone on here. This must be a site for those who love their dogs as if they were their children? Pet obsession big time.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

lorilu said:


> We are dealing with a superior force here people. Remember, this is the person who trained a 12 week old puppy to potty outside, sit, lie down, stay and speak, all in three days. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! <wiping eyes> whew I really did get a big laugh when I read that.


ONE it was a week, and it isn't rocket science would you like some advice on how to do it? 
It works really well


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> so I am going to stand my ground, or am I wrong for standing my ground with my own beliefs?


Well, you did call your dog stupid for standing his ground....


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

Dear PF membership, 
Can I post a goat meme yet?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Romeo&beast said:


> If you say so, but most dogs who undergo surgery and have to lay there and do nothing get some form of depression!
> 
> And yes, you might enjoy dogs running all over your home, I would be very interested to know the smell of your home and the cleanness of your home. Or anyones homes for that matter. with so many animals running freely around and sleeping in their beds.......
> I know for a fact that after having one of my dogs as an indoor around the house type of dog, despite my mother telling me not to. I have now said NEVER again!! And it is great. Everywhere in the home is clean and tidy, the only floor that gets dirty is the kitchen floor. I haven't got to worry about dog hair everywhere or the smell of dog everywhere. No matter how much you clean it will always smell of dog. It is great to have pets. But so many stopped coming to my old home when I had my Lab, as the house was very much a dogs house he would be the first to greet them and be excited to see them and some people just didn't want it! As not everyone are dog lovers.


















Yeah, you're right! I'm wading through the hairs from those damned dogs and the ball just makes the place look SO dirty... And better get the disinfectant out for that disease ridden dog on the settee :Hilarious :Hilarious

Oh, look! She's being dominant!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Dear PF membership,
> Can I post a goat meme yet?


----------



## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Once.
> You are confusing me with LinznMilly.
> 
> And I don't think you are the other poster with the JRTX, I do think that post about the behaviorist was you. Same posting style, and "voice".
> ...


Style and Voice from some text on a forum . . . 
Or someone who actually is real and can see that this forum is mostly full of deluded people? 
I am sat here reading people's comments/posts digging in to me. Over one choice of word and because I don't read books or site links on how to look after a "dog"? 
I am not spending loads of money on anything that my dog does NOT need. Lazy people paying another person to do what they can't really be bothered to do themselves. Reading everything on dogs and dogs behaviours and so forth is really not healthy. You are not all dog whispers. You are not all qualified in dog training. 
Some people read everything on illnesses so much so they end up convincing themselves all the time that they are always ill. 
This is the same thing.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Dear PF membership,
> Can I post a goat meme yet?


Nahhh ... Goats are SO last season ... Dogs are the new goats. Especially ones on our beds, settees ... Oooh! Wait! What about cars? Surely dogs need to know their place and therefore should be put in the boot?

Or is that trolls?

I trained my dog to be stupid, you see ... Coz ... Well ... Lime dog, like owner.  :Hilarious


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Dear PF membership,
> Can I post a goat meme yet?


I don't know why its taken so long for you to ask to be honest, I was expecting the goats to come out a few pages back.

OP it would seem Romeo has made a better job of training Muddy to sit and behave than you did so clearly its not Muddy who is stupid. Now don't take offence its only a word


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I don't know why its taken so long for you to ask to be honest, I was expecting the goats to come out a few pages back.
> 
> OP it would seem Romeo has made a better job of training Muddy to sit and behave than you did so clearly its not Muddy who is stupid. Now don't take offence its only a word


omg that is so funny I just fell off my pet free sofa Laughing!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Romeo&beast said:


> omg that is so funny I just fell off my pet free sofa Laughing!


I'm so pleased for you but I prefer my sofa with dogs included


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Romeo&beast said:


> ONE it was a week, and it isn't rocket science would you like some advice on how to do it?
> It works really well


I doubt I could handle your super powers. I'm sure you can leap tall buildings with a single bound, and fly through the air with the greatest of ease. Freaking hilarious, the crap you've posted in this thread. Now go do your homework. You really should learn how to read, you know, before you turn 12.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Romeo&beast said:


> I don't read books or site links on how to look after a "dog"?
> .


 what's with the bunny ear's?? When is a "dog" not a dog??
(maybe when its a goat!):Woot


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

lorilu said:


> I doubt I could handle your super powers. I'm sure you can leap tall buildings with a single bound, and fly through the air with the greatest of ease. Freaking hilarious, the crap you've posted in this thread. Now go do your homework. You really should learn how to read, you know, before you turn 12.


I take offence to that, as my first language is Welsh so struggle with English but hey ho if we must get personal.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Romeo&beast said:


> BECAUSE THE WORD STUPID WAS TAKEN COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEX YOU FRIGGIN MORON! thats how many times now???


I have reported this to the admin, you really cannot use language like this to another user. Please be careful what words you chose.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Romeo&beast said:


> I take offence to that, as my first language is Welsh so struggle with English but hey ho if we must get personal.


It doesn't matter what language you learn to read in, as long as you learn.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

catz4m8z said:


> When is a "dog" not a dog??
> (maybe when its a goat!):Woot


This one makes a pretty good bison:


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> I have reported this to the admin, you really cannot use language like this to another user. Please be careful what words you chose.


Good job, I missed that one. Probably time to close the thread anyway, once the goats come out. Hee Hee. Still laughing about OP's joke a few pages back about training a 12 week old pup with everything he needed to know, you know, in a week. Like God creating the world I guess. Everyone knows that story, even if they can't read, right?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

My favorite goat picture : )


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Romeo&beast said:


> Style and Voice from some text on a forum . . .
> Or someone who actually is real and can see that this forum is mostly full of deluded people?
> I am sat here reading people's comments/posts digging in to me. Over one choice of word and because I don't read books or site links on how to look after a "dog"?
> I am not spending loads of money on anything that my dog does NOT need. Lazy people paying another person to do what they can't really be bothered to do themselves. Reading everything on dogs and dogs behaviours and so forth is really not healthy. You are not all dog whispers. You are not all qualified in dog training.
> ...


The only one being offensive here is you with your snide digs at forum members who don't treat their dogs like garden ornaments......

And you could say the lazy owner is one who wants an easy dog that remains in the garden, out of the way, and with minimum input into its training and welfare.



SingingWhippet said:


> This one makes a pretty good bison:


 Looks like someone is practising for the next big styling competition


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2015)

I am actually very understanding of owners who are not quite as pet-oriented with their dogs. 
While it may not be for me, I am accepting of differences and I understand that not all owners want their dogs fully integrated in to their lives as family members. That's okay. 

What's not okay is ridiculing owners who do choose to keep their dogs as true companions and pets. 
Nor is it okay to ridicule people for having a genuine interest in dog behavior and training.

We all have different interests, there are forums out there for people who are "obsessed" with cars and engines, something I find totally boring, I have a car I just want to drive me from point A to point B and not have to think a thing about it otherwise.
But I would never ridicule someone for trying to learn as much as they can about the history and inner workings of vehicles or who spend days reading car enthusiast magazines and books (yes there are books for that too). I certainly would not accuse them of having a mental disorder for having an interest in cars. 

It's no different than being a dog nerd. This is a forum of PET lovers, this happens to be the dog section of a pet lovers forum. We are dog enthusiasts. 
It's quite rude to come on to a forum of dog enthusiasts and say their interest in dogs in unhealthy.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Romeo&beast said:


> uh I know . . . . But yet others here still seem to be going on and on and on about other things that are just not relevant to me. *BUT I have taken on board some of it*. And a fair few have just been going on at me, so I am going to stand my ground, or am I wrong for standing my ground with my own beliefs?
> This is quite healthy too by the looks of it, I seem to be the opposite of near enough everyone on here. This must be a site for those who love their dogs as if they were their children? Pet obsession big time.


Good because I've got better things to do than to analyse your contributions. I hope Muddy has a better life as a result of advice on here. It would be nice to give out a few likes and thanks.

And no you are not. My dog is not a 'fur baby', I detest that phrase so much. But I am responsible for her welfare and if that, in the eyes of one person on here makes me obsessive then I am pleased.



Romeo&beast said:


> Style and Voice from some text on a forum . . .
> Or someone who actually is real and can see that this forum is mostly full of deluded people?
> I am sat here reading people's comments/posts digging in to me. Over one choice of word and because I don't read books or site links on how to look after a "dog"?
> I am not spending loads of money on anything that my dog does NOT need. Lazy people paying another person to do what they can't really be bothered to do themselves. Reading everything on dogs and dogs behaviours and so forth is really not healthy. You are not all dog whispers. You are not all qualified in dog training.
> ...


Did you go to school or did you exit the womb knowing everything? When you buy a new item, do you throw away the manual and guess? How silly. Leaving school doesn't meant we have any less to learn. I have suggested links and shows empathy because my dog was a b*gger when we got her. I have two degrees, a postgrad degree and in the process of applying for a doctorate. But I sought the advice of a behaviourist because I had things to learn that would benefit me and most important my dog. What advice did you expect when you posted your frankly utterly incomprehensible problem? I've yet to understand what the issue is anyway.

Your arrogance is breathtakingly rude. However you are right about one thing. I am not a 'dog whisper' (er!) thank god. Those sorts of trainers are awful and much like yourself rely on being a big 'man' when they actually lack the aptitude and balls to learn about good training. Nobody is telling you to read loads of books, if you were able to pull your head from out of your arse you'd see that we've only recommend a couple as we share similar, positive ideals.

There are over 35 separate posters on here and without any exception they have all queried your methods. That indicates you really do have a problem yourself and are lacking the expertise to deal with it. How you cannot see that is beyond my level of education. But seeing a behaviourist is not an admission of guilt or stupidity (which is a clear indication that you really do not understand the meaning of that word!). It's about being a better owner, learning new methods that are based on new science and learning that work better with animals. It shows an investment in welfare and indeed to other owners and dogs. I know what to do around a lead reactive dog and I'd lay money that my dog is better trained than any dog you've owned and Molly is our first dog as a couple. It's called having an open mind and willingness to learn. You should try it. That's the general ethos of a forum too.

You know, come back when you've grown a pair of balls and learned some manners. In the meantime good luck Muddy, I hope that clever dog continues to run rings around you and shows up for the idiot you really are.

My regret is not the time I have spent posting you some helpful links but that out there are two dogs who sound great despite the waffle and that I think their welfare is at risk. That saddens me very much.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Romeo&beast said:


> omg lol I did not TAKE it away and not give it back to him, just took it from him from a pup, on a regular basis..... you lot are comical


And you're lucky you haven't been bitten.

Lucky yes ............. or maybe just stupid?


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

@MollySmith

This is the only 'dog whisper' on this forum as far as I know...... Although she is technically a bitch.....










 xx


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

You are still going on? Are we still going to continue this? 
So it is fine for members to make snide digs at me then? It is fine for the members to focus on the use of one word and drag it out for two days? Oh and its fine for other members to think they know everything about dogs too? Right ok then . . .

Some of you have been here for YEARS. I can see that you all have your little clicks, it also comes across as though most of you don't have much else to do. As some of you seem to have ignored my question asked completely! (apologies to those who answered the question) .... and gone on to badger me about the use of a word that I and many others who have met my dog use to describe my dog. 
MEMBERS then went on to call me many of things. When I only replied to your posts, and put MY opinion across, which most of you have done. But MEMBERS are mostly coming across as if "the poster has to be careful with each choice of word they use', I have felt as though I have had to write things out in black and white for you.

I have thanked you for some of the links, and I have thanked you for the food advice. BUT I so did not ask for training advice. Nor your opinions on the way I am with my pets. As they are just pets. I am not the only pet owner who keeps their pets outside. Not that he is fully outside as the kitchen is his space, and he NOW understands that he has to share his space with us humans!! Many of my friends have done the same thing with removing the dog bowls too, especially house holds that have more than one dog for feeding time. To help prevent fights in the long run.

ALSO.....as you all badger me about training a dog in one week, then it is fairly simple. Listen......You use a lead with them in the house all the time, while teaching them the basics. for potty training (that I also done through out the nights), you use newspaper and toilet roll. place the paper at the back door, on nice days then you put the paper just outside the back door. Use toilet roll to clean up any accidents made and put that in a carrier bag outside by the back door. you spend each day with the pup in question watching for the tell tale signs that s/he needs to go then you put s/he by the back door. With plenty of praise once gone on the paper, extra praise when they do it outside, I used to different types of treats, one he liked and one he loved. I also used an old skool fire guard as a safe pen area by the back door making sure that the area was fully cleaned before using it. I showed him how to sit, I also sat in his bed, repeating the words in the same calm tone of voice so he associated the word with action I was doing or encouraging him to do by rubbing down his back pushing his bum GENTLY to the ground. By the second week, he was able to walk on the lead as he was used to the lead. He also sat at roadsides and so forth on as it was drilled into him and carrying treats at all times encouraged him to listen well still repeating the training terms even though he knew exactly how to do it. He was also taught the same basics through hand gestures.

I am at current doing the exact same thing with my Patterjack but he does refuse to pay attention (which has been made clear that thats what they are like). I will not be taking months to train him. I will do an intense training session with the now both of them in a short space of time.

Wether or not you agree or disagree. It works for me, and it has always worked for me, it worked for my parents and some of my friends. And when I have visited friends who are dog owners who struggle with a smile thing like "this dog is always jumping up all over everyone", I would show them in less than a few minutes how to stop it. By just walking backwards from the animal with my hand up at its nose level. I would then tell them that they need consistancy until its stops. DONE!
And Muddy now responds to hand gestures (not often mind you) a click of the fingers and one finger pointed and he sits, put finger towards the floor and he lays. So yes I know you all took the word stupid in an offensive manner, but I did try and post a video showing what I meant by stupid then someone had to try and turn it to.... its a video of intelligent dogs. Nearly everything I have said has been nit picked in to pieces, yet none of you have even attempted to respond to any of my larger more detailed posts...... that I feel is needed because members are just jumping around the thread picking out parts of bits that have been said!

AND FYI I do only have one account. and thats hard enough why on earth would I want more than one?

For those of you have asked here is Romeo on his first day here. I have been bathing his eyes, and Im debating on cutting his nails myself or being taught how to do it.


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

There are some really good YouTube videos on nail clipping. As his nails should be white it should be fairly easy as you will be able to see the 'quick'.

Tbh - I took Teddy to the vets and the VN who did him wasn't much better than me! But am sure most are better than this!

A lot here use a Dremel instead of clippers. He's a cute little guy xx


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Camel anyone?










Giraffe?










Turns out dogs can be lots of different hoofed mammals..........


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## kenny10 (Jun 12, 2012)

Romeo&beast said:


> I don't know how to add more pics, I only found this forum last night.
> I feel really sorry for the chi and I just want to cuddle him and fuss him, his nails are long and his eyes are weepy and he has a touch of cherry eye which I am trying to bathe and massage but we haven't built much trust at the minute for me to be 'handling' him


Hi, just been following your post, I really feel for you. You came on PF looking for help and although you have had some good advise the majority are just wanting to have a real go at you. I have used PF for 3 years always been very good , now it is just a place to allow sad people with sad lives to let off aggresion. I posted on here last week , I was accused of being the worst dog owner , totally inadequate, I was shocked and upset by such nastiness. I probably didn't word my question correctly and when I tried to rephrase it I was given more abuse as though I was lying. I have seen a behaviorist this week, she has recognised immediately that my dog has a real fear of dogs getting to close and not willing to move away from him. I will never post on here again as there are so many nasty people getting there rocks off by hiding behind a computer , why are people like that,, very sad, they talk about internet trolls and quite honestly that's what I think of them. Good luck with your 2 dogs, do what you think is best, do not open yourself up to so much abuse, let them get there rocks off with someone else.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Romeo&beast said:


> *My other dog was a lab x boarder collie, a mixed breed of two intelligent dogs. He was very very eager to learn...*


I haven't read the whole thread but this bit really stood out to me - terriers are nothing like labs or collies, two breeds who are 'engineered' if you will to please humans, whereas terriers are a little more independent. They're _extremely _intelligent, don't let that 'what's in it for me?' attitude lull you into a false sense of security.


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## Romeo&beast (Oct 29, 2015)

kenny10 said:


> Hi, just been following your post, I really feel for you. You came on PF looking for help and although you have had some good advise the majority are just wanting to have a real go at you. I have used PF for 3 years always been very good , now it is just a place to allow sad people with sad lives to let off aggresion. I posted on here last week , I was accused of being the worst dog owner , totally inadequate, I was shocked and upset by such nastiness. I probably didn't word my question correctly and when I tried to rephrase it I was given more abuse as though I was lying. I have seen a behaviorist this week, she has recognised immediately that my dog has a real fear of dogs getting to close and not willing to move away from him. I will never post on here again as there are so many nasty people getting there rocks off by hiding behind a computer , why are people like that,, very sad, they talk about internet trolls and quite honestly that's what I think of them. Good luck with your 2 dogs, do what you think is best, do not open yourself up to so much abuse, let them get there rocks off with someone else.


THANK YOU! xXx So much now I mean that thank you, I didn't realise we had to choose our words very carefully... :Hilarious


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

This thread is being closed for moderation


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