# aggressive behaviour, really worried



## ashleywood (Oct 28, 2009)

Hi guys, I am Ash and new to the forum. I am really worried I have 3 dogs one of which is really worrying me.
Molly is a cross staffy and english bull terrier. I rescued her when she was about 18months old, she is now 4. she gets on with my other 2 dogs but never really liked any other dogs, but she would at least tolerate them. in the last 2 months though she has bitten 2 dogs, the first one came up to her when she was on the lead and she grabbed its face, it was a little patterdale terrier and she would just not let go i didnt know what to do i was shouting at her I cut myself trying to get her jaws apart but just couldnt do it it took about 15 mins for her to loose her grip, and she did only loose her grip she didnt intentionally let go. today she has just done the same thing to my mums young little dog.

It is really concerning me more so because I have a 5 week old baby. I would never dream of letting the dogs near her unsupervised but we are all human and the thought of it makes me sick.

overall Molly is a lovely dog and has never shown any aggression what so ever towards humans or younger kids (other than 1 male vet) and she is so lovely, but I do not know what to do as I have never rehomed a dog, and I have had them all of my life but I am so concerned now for my baby daughter, and I dont know if it is anythhing from her past that has made her like this.

any advice would be much appreciated.

like I said she really is lovely but I am soo worried.

sorry for the long post first time around.


----------



## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

ashleywood said:


> Hi guys, I am Ash and new to the forum. I am really worried I have 3 dogs one of which is really worrying me.
> Molly is a cross staffy and english bull terrier. I rescued her when she was about 18months old, she is now 4. she gets on with my other 2 dogs but never really liked any other dogs, but she would at least tolerate them. in the last 2 months though she has bitten 2 dogs, the first one came up to her when she was on the lead and she grabbed its face, it was a little patterdale terrier and she would just not let go i didnt know what to do i was shouting at her I cut myself trying to get her jaws apart but just couldnt do it it took about 15 mins for her to loose her grip, and she did only loose her grip she didnt intentionally let go. today she has just done the same thing to my mums young little dog.
> 
> It is really concerning me more so because I have a 5 week old baby. I would never dream of letting the dogs near her unsupervised but we are all human and the thought of it makes me sick.
> ...


I would make sure that all of your 3 dogs do not get anywhere near the baby unsupervised at any time, and when ever Molly is out and going to be near other dogs, I'd put a muzzle on her (a basket muzzle). It's awful for the other dog and its owner, as it can scar the other dog for life.


----------



## London Dogwalker (Oct 27, 2009)

Please see a behaviourist about this, any advice given about behaviour modifcation on the internet can be dangerous without observing the dog and how it behaves around others.

These two associations are both good and if you're insured should be covered under your insurance. (what area are you in as someone might be able to reccomend one local to you?)

The APBC | Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors 
CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers

Dog to dog aggression is normally confined to other dogs, but with a baby I think you need to get this nipped in the bud as you can't afford to take chances.

For a start I wouldn't allow any dogs to approach her while she's on lead, if a dog starts to come over call the owner to get them back on the lead as you have a nervous dog. (No need to tell them it's aggressive they should do as you ask! )

Did she attack your Mum's dog on lead or off lead?


----------



## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Yeap you need a behaviourist and quick. Not one can give you advise without professional experience and seeing your dog. 

For now make sure she's muzzled around any dogs until you are able to get someone out, including your other 2. Unfortunately she's a cross of 2 of the more dog aggressive breeds you can get. I suspect she would be absolutely fine with your baby because although her breeding makes her liable to being dog unfriendly the one thing she will like is kids!!  Obviously you wouldn't leave a baby with any dog but try to not worry about that. 

Good Luck I'm sure with the right help it will be fine, I've lived with dog aggressive dogs for years and it can be done.


----------



## ashleywood (Oct 28, 2009)

I am near sheffield in south yorkshire.
Molly was on the lead both times and the other dogs approached me, I asked owners to get there dog away but the dog didnt listen. I tried getting in the way but was unable to stop it, therefore as far as law goes it was not my fault as my dog was on her lead and i didnt approach them. not saying this is good.


----------



## London Dogwalker (Oct 27, 2009)

Julie Pett in Bradford is very good 

Pett Behaviour - Real life skills for dogs

Worth giving her a call to discuss your problem and get an idea of costs!

How awful they didn't get their dog back  I would muzzle to be on the safe side, if she hasn't been muzzled before build up to wearing it so she's not scared.


----------



## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

ashleywood said:


> I am near sheffield in south yorkshire.
> Molly was on the lead both times and the other dogs approached me, I asked owners to get there dog away but the dog didnt listen. I tried getting in the way but was unable to stop it, therefore as far as law goes it was not my fault as my dog was on her lead and i didnt approach them. not saying this is good.


but your dog still shouldn't attack other dogs. If your dog is dog aggressive, you make sure that you walk at times when other dogs aren't going to be around, and muzzle her. Although the other dog isn't obedient to its owner, doesn't mean that it should be bit. It's the other owner's fault for not training their dog to recall but it's not the dog's fault.


----------



## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Legally it isn't your fault, according to the law your dog was under control by being on lead the other owners are totally at fault so don't worry about that.  I muzzled one of my dogs for years, he just couldn't be trusted so it was easier to put the muzzle on and then he couldn't be held responsible for anything. Once they get used to wearing one it will become second nature for the dog, and it will help you relax which will also help the dog. Don't change the way you treat or walk your dog but do be responsible and take whatever action is needed to keep her, other dogs and yourself safe.


----------



## puppylove28 (Oct 28, 2009)

Hiya, 
If the only problems you are having are when out on the lead, I would suggest a K9 bridle.... It helps with fear aggression in dogs... Maybe thats just it... it could just be that he is scared of other dogs. I know it sounds silly because of the bread but even tiny dogs can scare big ones... 
I wouldnt know what else to suggest... 
Good luck though.. x


----------



## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

London Dogwalker said:


> Please see a behaviourist about this, any advice given about behaviour modifcation on the internet can be dangerous without observing the dog and how it behaves around others.
> 
> These two associations are both good and if you're insured should be covered under your insurance. (what area are you in as someone might be able to reccomend one local to you?)
> 
> ...


Great post- I agree completely. 
Dog to dog aggression as a general rule tends to be unrelated to dog-human aggression, in that if you have a dog aggressive dog this does not necessarily mean that your dog is a threat to humans.

However I would still take precautions. Like you said any dog and any child should not be left unattended. 
Seeing has she has bitten other dogs I would muzzle her on walks. Basket muzzles are the best as they still allow the dog to pant and are also really good for slipping small treats through the holes, once you have discussed a behaviour modification programme with a behaviourist and are working on for instance, desensitizing her to other dogs in order to make her less reactive. With her muzzled you will be able to relax more when walking her, knowing that if worst comes to worst and another dog charges over to you when she is onlead (which they shouldn't) you can at least have the reassurance that she is muzzled and so this limits what can happen. If you see another dog approaching you I would be inclined to call over to the owner that your dog is nervous/ unsure of other dogs and that you are working on this so could they please recall their dog?

Another association of behaviourists is the APDT who are really good IMO. 
Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK

Local APDT behaviourists list (you will need to select a trainer that offers "behaviour")
http://www.apdt.co.uk/local_dog_trainers.asp

Hope this helps


----------



## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Just seen that you are in Sheffield, South Yorks. 
Here is a list of local APDT behaviourists:



> Katie Patmore 00151
> 
> Address: 39 Bannercross Rd, Sheffield S11 9HQ
> 
> ...





> Val Strong MSc 00168
> 
> Address: Cloughfields Farm, Cloughfields, Sheffield, S10 5PY
> 
> ...





> Victoria Cooper 00302
> 
> Address: People and Dogs, 42 Meadow Head Drive, Sheffield, S8 7TQ
> 
> ...


Source: Local Dog Trainers in Yorkshire - South UK

Hope that helps


----------



## London Dogwalker (Oct 27, 2009)

puppylove28 said:


> Hiya,
> If the only problems you are having are when out on the lead, I would suggest a K9 bridle.... *It helps with fear aggression in dogs... *Maybe thats just it... it could just be that he is scared of other dogs. I know it sounds silly because of the bread but even tiny dogs can scare big ones...
> I wouldnt know what else to suggest...
> Good luck though.. x


Where's your source for that other than their website?! 

A halti harness is cheaper and much more suitable for the face shape of the OP's dog, although it doesn't appear that they're lunging so no need! 

lemmsy - I mentioned Julie Pett as I know she deals with aggression, a lot of behaviurosts don't seem to want to work with aggression which is helpful!!  Val Strong on that list I know of and is also VERY good!


----------



## ashleywood (Oct 28, 2009)

hi, thanks for the fast responses. I now have a basket muzzle for her so going to try this. i have a full body harness for her that i use, i do have a halti aswell though.

in terms of lunging she doesnt tend to show that much interest in other dogs unless they come into her space, however my male dog is very dominant and although would not bite another dog he likes to dominate and does show a lot of interest. he has been there on both times that molly has attacked so wondering if it is anything to do with pack orientation as my male dog is the leader of the 3 of them so not sure if she see's it as following his lead.

all stuff i can suggest to the trainer though i guess.

think i will try walking her on her own with the muzzle see how she reacts then.

thanks


----------



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi Ash

WElcome to the forum, I'm sorry to hear you are having problems.

As everybody has said, you are best to see a behaviourist, as this behaviour is quite extreme. If it was just a nip, it wouldn't be so bad.

What ever you do don't stop the walks. That way her energy levels will increase and you will get more problems, because she will be frustrated.

A lot of dogs behave worse on a lead, this is because if they feel threatened, then they cannot run away. Therefore sometimes they fight.

A muzzle is a good idea, because it will increase your confidence, which I imagine is quite low at the moment. But please bare in mind that initially it is very difficult for a dog to wear a muzzle. Therefore you need to "train" them into accepting it. For help, either google it or start another thread.

If at all possible, I would also walk this dog seperate to your other dogs, so you can spend time with it. Also if you have any friends with calm, friendly dogs, then you could walk them together. This will get your dog used to other dogs, but you can feel comfortable because your dog will be muzzled.

You will get through this. I can only imagine how tough it is after having your baby. But stick with it! If your dog always has to be walked with a muzzle on, then so be it. But don't assume that the dog will try to attack your baby. However, as with all dogs, give your dog space with the baby. It is also possible that this spate of recent attacks is connected to you giving birth.

Very best of luck and keep us informed x


----------



## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

goodvic2 said:


> Hi Ash
> 
> WElcome to the forum, I'm sorry to hear you are having problems.
> 
> ...


Good post. 
I especially agree with the advise about walking the dog separately to your other dogs.

This way you will be able to focus more on rewarding for focussing on you rather than getting agitated about other dogs


----------



## k8t (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi

All the advice is good, you need to deal with this now, in the meantime make sure your dogs is muzzled when out and about. A basket muzzle is good although do get your dog used to it by using treats and getting positive associations with it first!

I wouldn't allow this dog access to your baby, even when you are there, god forbid anything happened, would you be able to stop it?

Of the people on the list, I would suggest, Val Strong, I have worked with her before through work, she is straight talking will tell you what you need to know and she has a lot of experience, regularly speaking at conferences. Katie Patmore is also good, but try Val first.

Best of luck. I hope it works out for you.

Kate


----------



## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

> I wouldn't allow this dog access to your baby, even when you are there, god forbid anything happened, would you be able to stop it?


I think the issue regarding the dog and the baby being together (supervised) is a hard one.

However I would be inclined to say that not allowing said dog and baby to be in the same room, supervised is unnecessary. Naturally I would never leave any dog and child together unsupervised. 
Remember this dog has not shown any aggressive behaviour to any humans, only other dogs and dog to human aggression is normally unrelated to dog to dog aggression.

I agree though that the OP needs to contact a decent behaviourist and get their advise and be extra vigilant in supervising the dogs and the baby. 
Best of luck to the OP and please do keep us all updated


----------



## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Hallilujah!!!!!!!!!!! Feel like doing a jig - at last common sense advice over behavioural issues  I dont see how anyone can give advice without observing the dog in question so to point to a good behaviourist (especially onw who you seem to know personally and can fully recommend) is just brilliant.

Good luck with your dog - hope you manage to get some help


----------



## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

ashleywood said:


> I am near sheffield in south yorkshire.
> Molly was on the lead both times and the other dogs approached me, I asked owners to get there dog away but the dog didnt listen. I tried getting in the way but was unable to stop it, therefore as far as law goes it was not my fault as my dog was on her lead and i didnt approach them. not saying this is good.


You cant really blame an inquisitive dog for getting bitten. You should get a muzzle on her until the problem is sorted, there are many friendly dogs out there that this type of thing can afftect drastically not least end their lives.
Recall on any pet is never 100% so putting blame on someone else because their pet didnt come back to them is not solving the problem. 
One thing that will - and dont take this the wrong way... if she persists in attacking and reports are made of her she could be taken off you, classed as dangerous and for destruction. A simple muzzle will help you at least get time to sort her out.


----------



## k8t (Oct 13, 2009)

james1 said:


> One thing that will - and dont take this the wrong way... if she persists in attacking and reports are made of her she could be taken off you, classed as dangerous and for destruction. A simple muzzle will help you at least get time to sort her out.


I think this is scare mongering and really not appropriate at this stage. A muzzle is a necessity to prevent your dog injuring another and therefore it causing you money in vets fees ( I hope you have at least 3rd Party Liability). However, the law is not so clear cut as this, so don't worry about your dog being taken off you!!!

Dogs that are classed as 'dangerous' would normally be directed at people not other dogs and your dog out and about is not attacking people - unless there is something you haven't told us!

The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, states specifically 'person' and not dog

_For the purposes of this Act a dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so, but references to a dog injuring a person or there being grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will do so do not include references to any case in which the dog is being used for a lawful purpose by a constable or a person in the service of the Crown_

However this doesn't make it any easier for you, it is no fun having a dog that is going around trying to get in there first, so find that behaviourist, but don't worry just yet about your dog being taken away! (honestly, some people!).

Kate


----------

