# Horizon - The Secret Life of the Cat



## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Thursday
9pm
BBC 2

Might be a good watch


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

jo-pop said:


> Thursday
> 9pm
> BBC 2
> 
> Might be a good watch


Typical bl**dy BBC2  it isnt on in Scotland until 23:20, why


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

buffie said:


> Typical bl**dy BBC2  it isnt on in Scotland until 23:20, why


Could you record it for another day?


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## 1971 (Aug 16, 2008)

Yes really looking forward to it

BBC Two - Horizon, 2012-2013, The Secret Life of the Cat


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

My prediction is that most spend half their time [email protected] in people's gardens, then scowling when people like me throw shoes across the garden at them


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Looking forward to this


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If you have FreeSat or Skye (you are using a satellite dish) you can certainly get the English BBC 2 channel.

Suspect not with FreeView - the settop box running off your ariel - if you have HD that might have the English BBC2.


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

buffie said:


> Typical bl**dy BBC2  it isnt on in Scotland until 23:20, why


BOTHER!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

jo-pop said:


> Could you record it for another day?


Already set the box :thumbsup: but I wonder why they think we would rather watch Rory Bremner discussing Scottish Independence,its been done to death


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

buffie said:


> Typical bl**dy BBC2  it isnt on in Scotland until 23:20, why


Do you have Sky Buffie?

If so, watch it on the English BBC2 channel. We think it will be channel 970 on your Sky box as that is our BBC2 Scotland channel.


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

I've set a reminder


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

MoggyBaby said:


> *Do you have Sky Buffie*?
> 
> If so, watch it on the English BBC2 channel. We think it will be channel 970 on your Sky box as that is our BBC2 Scotland channel.


Just the one with stars in MB 
Thanks for the info though,just got el-cheapo free-view there is enough [email protected] on that without paying for more I may stay up to watch it but its set to record if I nod off


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

Oh brill! Will look forward to watching this!


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

I don't have a recording device or the proper Internet to watch it on iplayer, so I will be propping my eyelids open with matchsticks to stay awake to watch it. A pox on everyone who thought a stupid programme about Rory Bremner and scottish independence was more important than a glorious programme about cats!


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

egyptianreggae said:


> A pox on everyone


Love this, have made a mental note to try and use it tomorrow :lol:


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

buffie said:


> Just the one with stars in MB
> Thanks for the info though,just got el-cheapo free-view there is enough [email protected] on that without paying for more I may stay up to watch it but its set to record if I nod off


I'm assuming if an el-cheapo it is not a HD version as you could have gotten BBC2HD which would give you the 9pm showing.

Don't forget the follow-up at 10pm on BBC2 on Friday - Horizon: Little Cats Diaries.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

MoggyBaby said:


> I'm assuming if an el-cheapo it is not a HD version as you could have gotten BBC2HD which would give you the 9pm showing.
> 
> Don't forget the follow-up at 10pm on BBC2 on Friday - Horizon: Little Cats Diaries.


Oh [email protected]  I'll have to go and have a look to see what nonsense they have given us instead


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## nightkitten (Jun 15, 2012)

Set it on record yesterday just in case I forget, the cats interrupt me or I nod off


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

buffie said:


> Oh [email protected]  I'll have to go and have a look to see what nonsense they have given us instead


Already checked for you. You appear to be getting it at this time along with us darn sarf.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

MoggyBaby said:


> I'm assuming if an el-cheapo it is not a HD version as you could have gotten BBC2HD which would give you the 9pm showing.
> 
> *Don't forget the follow-up at 10pm on BBC2 on Friday - Horizon: Little Cats Diaries*.


Just checked and this is on at the same time as the rest of the UK 

Thanks MB


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> Already checked for you. You appear to be getting it at this time along with us darn sarf.


Huh, wouldn't bet against it getting bumped at the last minute in favour of Alex Salmond's Top Twenty Independence-Promoting Fish Suppers or something :rolleyes5:


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

egyptianreggae said:


> Huh, wouldn't bet against it getting bumped at the last minute in favour of Alex Salmond's Top Twenty Independence-Promoting Fish Suppers or something :rolleyes5:


Look hen..... a decent fish supper is an important political voting point in your fight for independence!!! :lol: :lol:


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## Kyria (Oct 29, 2011)

Ive put the timer on to record this programme. It said it contains some upsetting scenes ...put me off a wee bit as I dont want to see a cat hurt or anything terrible.


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Kyria said:


> Ive put the timer on to record this programme. It said it contains some upsetting scenes ...put me off a wee bit as I dont want to see a cat hurt or anything terrible.


It'll just be a cat chasing a bird no doubt..


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I am most certainly going to watch it AND record it


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

jo-pop said:


> It'll just be a cat chasing a bird no doubt..


It's highlighted on BBC Breakfast and there were 20 bird kills in the week - apparently fewer than we're anticipated.

There is a female Bengal called Lilly - didn't know people would let a Bengal out on its own.


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

Cookieandme said:


> It's highlighted on BBC Breakfast and there were 20 bird kills in the week - apparently fewer than we're anticipated.
> 
> There is a female Bengal called Lilly - didn't know people would let a Bengal out on its own.


Interesting... I expect some people will complain now then about the birds.

I'm glad its on a sensible time here, I haven't got a recorder and I'm rubbish at staying awake much past 10.30! :Yawn:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Trailers with interviews on Radio 4 and BBC 1 this morning. They don't seem to be mentioning Small Cat Diaries on Friday night. We got a shot of the control room (probably the village hall) pretty full of kit along the walls. 

One of the talking heads on BBC 1 was saying we probably know less about domestic cats than some of the big cats.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Trailers with interviews on Radio 4 and BBC 1 this morning. They don't seem to be mentioning Small Cat Diaries on Friday night. We got a shot of the control room (probably the village hall) pretty full of kit along the walls.
> 
> *One of the talking heads on BBC 1 was saying we probably know less about domestic cats than some of the big cats*.


Well I would say that about 60% of the population are pretty clueless on how best to look after & protect them. So the talking head got that one right!!!


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## Ally-Kats (Jan 8, 2009)

Looking forward to this and the little cat diaries, which I didn't know about, so thanks to whoever mentioned that one


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Kyria said:


> Ive put the timer on to record this programme. It said it contains some upsetting scenes ...put me off a wee bit as I dont want to see a cat hurt or anything terrible.


More likely cats catching and eating birds and mice.......


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## jasminex (Oct 16, 2012)

There's a few teasers on the BBC site now BBC News - Secret life of the cat: What do our feline companions get up to?


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## lupie (Sep 1, 2012)

Really excited for this - it was filmed 2 miles from me  So we got lots of updates as filming went on. We entered Poppy to be one of the cats watched but they didn't choose her


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## lifeizsweet (Jun 7, 2009)

I can't wait to watch this - they had a thing on BBC news this morning about it, looks amazing!


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## NEW2CATS (Aug 28, 2009)

bit of a preview

The Secret Life of a Cat: What mischievous moggies gets up to behind their owners' backs | Mail Online


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

I've set to remind and record too! I saw the clip on BBC news this morning too. Can't wait to watch it!


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm out tonight (off to see The Queen! - I'll check under her chair for small rodents!!  ) so will be downloading & watching tomorrow night when Derek goes off to work.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Will definitely be watching this tonight - was filmed not far from me either


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Think the cat section will be quite tonight lol .. we will be all watching the box ... Plus gives us something to talk about later lol


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Think the cat section will be quite tonight lol .. we will be all watching the box ... *Plus gives us something to talk about later* lol


No spoilers please as some of us won't be watching it tonight!!!

I don't want to know what happens at the end ok!!!!


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Will be missing this as have two other things on record.


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## EddyB (Jun 8, 2013)

Is this one of those programs where they strap a hidden camera to a cat? If so i think i've seen one before. Was pretty funny!


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## cat burglar (Jun 9, 2013)

I wished my cat (see linked thread below) had been chosen to take part in this study! :lol:
http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-chat/310786-neighbourhood-cat-burglar.html#post1062993072


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Firedog said:


> Will be missing this as have two other things on record.


There is always iplayer


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

EddyB said:


> Is this one of those programs where they strap a hidden camera to a cat? If so i think i've seen one before. Was pretty funny!


I doubt you will have seen this one


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Cookieandme said:


> I doubt you will have seen this one


They have fitted cats with cameras or GPS before, but never as an organized study. In most cases, it was to trace the source of individual cat burglars' loot. Besides, most of this earlier footage is American, while this study was done in Surrey.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Oh big brother live launch tonight too..

Uh oh


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## MoochH (Aug 22, 2012)

I must be the official crazy cat lady at work as 18 people thought to mention this program to me today 

HAVE to watch it now as I'm sure I'll be questioned on it tomorrow.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

I just spent 45 mins on the phone to my mum.

5 minutes later she rang back to let me know the channel and time :lol:

And then told me about the other one tomorrow night :thumbup:


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

I have also had three texts telling me about this, I thought my crazy cat lady status was in the closet - apparently not!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

MollyMilo said:


> Oh big brother live launch tonight too..
> 
> Uh oh


Oh, c'mon, no contest - cats are way more intelligent than your average Big Brother contestant...  And about 1,000 times more interesting


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm watching but as far as I am aware they have told me nothing the average cat slave (and I don't mean just cat owner) wasn't aware of


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

Tut tut, feeding cooked chicken carcasses ...


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

:


lymorelynn said:


> I'm watching but as far as I am aware they have told me nothing the average cat slave (and I don't mean just cat owner) wasn't aware of


Lynn i so agree with this , if i am honest it really is boring me ( sorry to anyone who is loving it ) ... I am finding it pretty well non informative , and nothing i have'nt seen before , the cats are lovely tho  but that is about all the enjoyment it is providing me with


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

My girls aren't even interested in the odd bit of yowling :Yawn:


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

See... this is what your cats miss out on being kept inside!

couldn't resist


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## smiler84 (Feb 4, 2012)

I've turned it off, was way less interesting than I expected :Yawn:


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

tincan said:


> :
> 
> Lynn i so agree with this , if i am honest it really is boring me ( sorry to anyone who is loving it ) ... I am finding it pretty well non informative , and nothing i have'nt seen before , the cats are lovely tho  but that is about all the enjoyment it is providing me with


I agree, I even nodded off


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

It was interesting at the end on how the domestic cat is changing.

Did they mention at all if all cats studied were neutered? X:idea:


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Jesthar said:


> Oh, c'mon, no contest - cats are way more intelligent than your average Big Brother contestant...  And about 1,000 times more interesting


The cats won


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

lymorelynn said:


> My girls aren't even interested in the odd bit of yowling :Yawn:


Nancy sat on my lap and didn't even register the yowling and hissing! I thought her ears would prick up at least.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

They have obviously come to a couple of very wrong conclusions, which are obvious even from their own observations.

A social multi-cat household is unnatural according to them, a result of domestication... How wrong can you be? Just look at the semi-feral farm cats, they are closer together than the 6 domestic cats in the village.

And of all my own cats, the semi-ferals and former street cats form the closest bonds.....


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

I thought it was quite sweet, nothing new or ground breaking but quite nice anyway - lovely village.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Tamiyamumma said:


> It was interesting at the end on how the domestic cat is changing.
> 
> Did they mention at all if all cats studied were neutered? X:idea:


I did wonder that - no mention was made that I heard


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

And cats are hunter-scavengers, so raiding other cats' food bowls is nothing new, really, just a modern form of scavenging....


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

They were lovely cats and that's the best I can say to be honest.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> I did wonder that - no mention was made that I heard


By the looks of it, nearly all of the domestic cats were, especially the toms. I saw no toms with obvious entire-tom features.

the farm toms were obviously entire, short, stocky build, broad faces with heavy musculature. And they were the ones that were packed closely together, rubbing up against each other and standing, sleeping and walking like a pack....

As long as there is enough food, and they are used to sharing the territory from kittenhood, they appear to adapt to that kind of life quite easily.
Feral colonies support that theory, too. They live very close together, too, with no fights except when a female is in heat......

I think it is the territorial attitude of single domesticated cats that is an acquired trait. Even in my neighbourhood, the entire toms hardly ever pick a fight or even challenge the domestic cats, except in spring, when there are queens in heat around.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

I watched half of it but then got bored, it wasn't as interesting as I had expected. There were some beautiful cats though, I loved the long haired black and white.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> My girls aren't even interested in the odd bit of yowling :Yawn:


Connor was looking up in a very surprised manner, as if to say 'who dares to challenge me on my home turf?' But when he saw no-one else reacting, he relaxed...


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

What concerned me most was the large family of farm cats - they all looked related (all ginger or tortie) and were very friendly with the farmer, who uses them for rat control..... which suggests he bred them all himself, rather than adopting a group of feral cats desperately looking for a farm home at his local CP............. :001_unsure:


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

You know a heck ad a lot about cats JK 

I bet it would be really interesting if they did similar research on PF Cat Chat users!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Lunabuma said:


> You know a heck ad a lot about cats JK
> 
> I bet it would be really interesting if they did similar research on PF Cat Chat users!


I bet we could tell them a thing or two they didn't find out from their research.....


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## KiaJazz (Jun 13, 2013)

I enjoyed it, but I really didn't learn anything new =/ ...


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

I enjoyed it and found some bits very interesting  
Beautiful cats!! 


I wonder if these villagers now have microchip flaps


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## helenxxxx (Sep 23, 2012)

That prog just made me want to try a GPS collar even more :-D


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I know where my cats go and do not go, mostly. We walk our cats, or rather, they walk us, and seeing where they will and will not go gives a fair indication of their territory. Some will go further than others, and some will turn around and go home if we venture outside their safe area.
I have also noticed that some will go further when the higher-ranking cats come along, but not when they are on their own with us.


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## nightkitten (Jun 15, 2012)

I am not sure what I expected but I have to say I was disappointed. Nearly nodded off a few times.

They forgot a few facts that cat owners would like to know like how many cats were neutered, where any in heat at the time, average age of the cats, and so on.

They did mention that the cats only spent 20% of the time outside but then again mentioned that the weather was poorly although that was not the case on the bits they showed. I think 1 week is not enough time for proper results.

Plus they seem to have chosen a village with loads of cats so of course their territory will be smaller as they have to share this with other cats and therefore they won't roam as far.

Oh, I could go on and on...


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## Velcro (May 20, 2013)

MollyMilo said:


> I enjoyed it and found some bits very interesting
> Beautiful cats!!
> 
> I wonder if these villagers now have microchip flaps


I was thinking about that hahaha

My mum rang me, all excited saying there was a cat thing on bbc2 lol


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

nightkitten said:


> I am not sure what I expected but I have to say I was disappointed. Nearly nodded off a few times.
> 
> They forgot a few facts that cat owners would like to know like how many cats were neutered, where any in heat at the time, average age of the cats, and so on.
> 
> ...


The distance they roamed matches the distance my cats will go. On or two will go as far as Sooty, but the others will go 3 or 4 streets from ours in one direction and 1 or 2 in the other direction, and no further. There are many cats here, too, but most of them are quite friendly with each other, as long as they do not venture into each other's home.
When we walk our cats, several neighbouring cats will come up to us and walk along for a bit. Most of them know and accept each other.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Really enjoyed it. Good to see Dr. John Bradshaw again, he wrote the book "In Defence of Dogs" [published as "Dog Sense" in the USA - worldwide bestseller and rightly so] - I met him when I went to a lecture he gave in Taunton. Very nice chap.

Roger Tabor did a study of domestic cat territory patterns in the East End of London in the 70's/80's (I forget which), I used to have a copy of that book "The Wildlife of the Domestic Cat" but I think this GPS study takes it a lot further. Most of my cats have been indoor cats, so the 'timeshare' thing was new to me - understandable too, but new.

Cuba used to come on walks with me & Merlin, both in Southsea and here in Somerset. Every night she would accompany us, but here it was through the front gardens, doing feline Parkour over fences and through hedges. Once she followed us up into the cow field at the top of the road, will never forget her perplexed expression when she sniffed a cow pat, or how fast she ran when she caught sight of the steers! I really miss her...


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Aurelie said:


> Nancy sat on my lap and didn't even register the yowling and hissing! I thought her ears would prick up at least.


Cedar was glued to it :lol:

I was particularly fascinated by the multi-cat household that got on, and were not related to each other.... 

Rowan is the only hissy one here, and only towards Cedar (very rarely Blossom), and I think thats because Cedar likes to be 'in your face' and the girls will let him know who's boss with a clip round the ear - Rowan just hisses - and usually when they both want 'mummy' time (pair of mummies boys I have here) :lol:


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

I was surprised at my dogs' reactions. Merlin rarely watches TV but he was keenly interested, especially when he heard the fighting talk. He has always barked when he hears cats fighting outside, mainly because he was brought up around cats and was very protective of Cuba.

Rue on the other hand, an ex-stray who only thinks of cats in terms of a sandwich (no lettuce and extra mayo, please ) barely moved, but when dogs are on TV she is glued to it.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Fluff Beast lost interest and went to sleep after a few mins, but he had just spent the whole of the previous hour glued to Springwatch which is his all time favourite programme. I've never had a cat that loves TV like he does before...but does it mean he's smart or really dumb?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Tao2 said:


> I've never had a cat that loves TV like he does before...but does it mean he's smart or really dumb?


Just a guess - you have a flat screen TV and (like most of the UK) you're watching it in digital 

The old cathode ray tube TV's - and the analogue signal - made the TV flicker, which wasn't apparent to the human eye, but dogs & cats found it hard to follow.

Think it's been proven that digital TV means they can see the screen properly now, and more cats & dogs are interested in it.


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

Finally managed to watch it and Simba and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Simba was very interested in the yowling and growling and had his ears pricked. His tail started swishing at one point- must have taken a dislike to one of the cats. Tiny ignored it all. He has been very trying tonight, miaowing me awake from a doze to show me the large poo he'd done on top of the litter tray and down the skirting board. At that point, I wondered if I could get away with posting him down to the cat village with a note round his neck saying "analyze this!" But perhaps not...

It perhaps didn't have many groundbreaking revelations (though I now know that the proper name for the interested purr, aka the "I want to sniff your eyeballs" purr is the solicitation purr) but the cats were beautiful and jeezo, imagine living somewhere you could let your two pedigree British Blues out without being worried about them getting nicked. What on earth did the eyeball come from that was all that was left of one of the cats' hunting sprees? Poor rabbit as well (though I was impressed.) the conclusion was a bit pat- when they were saying that maybe cats are learning to get on with each other better and losing their wild instincts to get on better with us. But the farm cats were all together and obv keeping their wild instincts...but then I suppose that might jst be for meal times and they would have a wider area for territory. Sorry, rambling now! But very glad I stayed up.


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

Jiskefet said:


> They have obviously come to a couple of very wrong conclusions, which are obvious even from their own observations.
> 
> A social multi-cat household is unnatural according to them, a result of domestication... How wrong can you be? Just look at the semi-feral farm cats, they are closer together than the 6 domestic cats in the village.
> 
> And of all my own cats, the semi-ferals and former street cats form the closest bonds.....


THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT!! About the farm cats. Sorry to shout, I love it when I come to the same conclusion as someone else!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

egyptianreggae said:


> . and jeezo, imagine living somewhere you could let your two pedigree British Blues out without being worried about them getting nicked.


 Oh yes, I wanted to move there immediately!



> What on earth did the eyeball come from


It was a sheep's eyeball left from the kill of a burping wolf, who couldn't finish all his dinner but didn't want to be impolite 

They should have studied my friend Marion's Havana, known as Todd The Terrible - long gone... but remembered for his unusual foraging. He brought back many things including a dead budgie; half a round of Brie cheese (still in date, Marion cut off the bit with toothmarks in and ate the rest herself); a packet of raw chicken wings (she didn't eat those, she's vegetarian); and a dead kestrel (there was lot of banging at the cat flap when he tried to drag it through and it wouldn't fit - not a fresh kill it had been dead for some time and was rather smelly).

He also haunted the back door of the local kebab shop and when she caught up with him they said something like: "Ohhh that flipping cat! We have to give him meat every day, to make him go away."

When the local council to issue notices about not leaving rubbish out in black bags overnight, as Foxes were breaking into them... Marion realised it wasn't foxes, it was Todd.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

i loved it ,the bits i managed to see inbetween running off aroumd flat to find my boy thinking he might like to watch it too,not in the slightest bit interested , but i do think he along with i would like to live there too ,lovely cats and people ,so much freedom,..i hope its repeated as id like to see it again , i loved the kids talking about their siamese cat espically the boy he was so loving and enthusiastic...ahhh..i loved reading all your posts as well . cant wait for the next one, but thats coming from someone who cant so much as walk past a bunch of calanders without checking to see if there is a cat one


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

egyptianreggae said:


> imagine living somewhere you could let your two pedigree British Blues out without being worried about them getting nicked.


I don't worry about Claude being stolen, the cat owners within my circle of friends are quite BSH biased and between us we have Claude, another blue point, a red self and a blue self all of whom go out with no problems so far (the oldest being 11). I know you can never say never and obviously there have been cases on here, but I have never actually known anyone to have a cat stolen in real life and I think it is a fairly rare occurance.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

It was a nice programme to watch; both my cats & dogs were very interested as well  .... but not really that much new information.

I did find the fact that the cats seemed to be going outside & patrolling their areas on a 'time share' basis quite interesting as one of my friends had noted cats in her area doing the same.

I also wanted to find out more about cats in mulit cat household & their relationships as I have always found that some cats do develop quite close bonds with each other & wish they had explored that a bit more.

It was also interesting that none of the cats displayed a great interest in hunting, again I would be interested to hear about more data regarding this although am not sure it would ever be that conslusive as there would be many factors to take in to consideration for this.

Lovely cats though, I would love to see what my Winnie got up to although having watched her it mainly involves her sleeping or sitting over a mose hole & waiting. George (our new cat) is again mainly found sleeping or terrorising the dogs


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

moggiemum said:


> i loved the kids talking about their siamese cat


Chocolate Burmese....


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Watched it when I got in last night.

The main thing that bothered me is I feel it has concreted the belief that it IS alright / the norm to allow your cats to roam. Absolutely NO mention of the dangers cats now face in our modern society. And of course, a nice pretty wee sleepy village in Surrey is the type of place where ALL cat owners live. 

People who live in cities or busy towns with a high level of traffic and nasty minded wee thugs would never think of owning a pet and allowing it to wander the streets on its own.

I would much rather they did a study on the quality of life, and the live spans, of cats who wander compared to those who have runs or CP gardens. THAT would be much more useful! 

And don't start me on those cats eating their dry cat food..................!!! 

As has already been said, it was nice to watch due to all the beautiful cats, but I don't really think anyone on this forum would have learnt anything new from it. 

Maybe we need to contact the two Doctors involved and suggest other paths of enquiry they may want to look at if they REALLY want to understand cats and their behaviour.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Does anybody know how long the study ran for?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

MoggyBaby said:


> Watched it when I got in last night.
> 
> The main that that bothered me is that I feel it has concreted the belief that it IS alright / the norm to allow your cats to roam. Absolutely NO mention of the dangers cats now face in our modern society. And of course, a nice pretty wee sleepy village in Surrey is the type of place where ALL cat owners live.
> 
> ...


But it is the norm for letting cats roam though, I personally do not know anyone (except on this forum) who has indoor cats or cats that are only ion an enclosure & most people I know own at least one cat.

I'm not really sure you can compare quality of life as surely this would be different for every cat. Life spans would not necessarily indicate a better quality but maybe would show more risks associated with lives of outdoor in comparison to indoor perhaps.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Aurelie said:


> Does anybody know how long the study ran for?


A whole week!!!


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> A whole week!!!


I hoped it might have been for a month - that would make it more worthwhile I think.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Aurelie said:


> Does anybody know how long the study ran for?


One week  :ihih:


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> But it does is the norm for letting cats roam though, I personally do not know anyone (except on this forum) who has indoor cats or cats that are only ion an enclosure & most people I know own at least one cat.
> 
> I'm not really sure you can compare quality of life as surely this would be different for every cat. Life spans would not necessarily indicate a better quality but maybe would show more risks associated with lives of outdoor in comparison to indoor perhaps.


The only indoor cats I know are my friends Sphynx 

Interesting how it said majority of cats are in the south east. Is that because there are just seen roaming?


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Watched it when I got in last night.
> 
> The main thing that bothered me is I feel it has concreted the belief that it IS alright / the norm to allow your cats to roam. Absolutely NO mention of the dangers cats now face in our modern society. And of course, a nice pretty wee sleepy village in Surrey is the type of place where ALL cat owners live.
> 
> ...


They did more or less answer that question, as all of these free-roaming cats in this perfect hunting and patroling area only spent about 20% of their time outdoors, and more than half of it in their own garden.

It looks like most cats were quite happy to spend the vast majority of their time indoors, so the question was implicitly answered....


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> They did more or less answer that question, as all of these free-roaming cats in this perfect hunting and patroling area only spent about 20% of their time outdoors, and more than half of it in their own garden.
> 
> It looks like most cats were quite happy to spend the vast majority of their time indoors, so the question was implicitly answered....


But how many cats are injured or killed in that 20% of free-roaming time?

I fully appreciate there are areas - little sleepy villages in Surrey - where cats are maybe safer to free-roam but I think there could have been more emphasis on the greater benefits of runs & cat-proofing.

All this programme has done is tell the un-informed that allowing cats to free-roam is the done thing.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

MoggyBaby said:


> But how many cats are injured or killed in that 20% of free-roaming time?
> 
> I fully appreciate there are areas - little sleepy villages in Surrey - where cats are maybe safer to free-roam but I think there could have been more emphasis on the greater benefits of runs & cat-proofing.
> 
> All this programme has done is tell the un-informed that allowing cats to free-roam is the done thing.


But this wasn't really a programme about (what some may consider)responsible pet ownership, but more about cat behaviour away from the home


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

True.
what they tried to find out is how 'feral' our house cats still are.
What bothers me is that they attributed some very natural behaviour (social multi cat relationships and scavenging other animals' food stashes - food bowls in other houses in this case) to the influence of domestication, while some domesticated behaviour (time sharing) was presented as natural cat behaviour.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Jiskefet said:


> True.
> what they tried to find out is how 'feral' our house cats still are.
> What bothers me is that they attributed some very natural behaviour (social multi cat relationships and scavenging other animals' food stashes - food bowls in other houses in this case) to the influence of domestication, while some domesticated behaviour (time sharing) was presented as natural cat behaviour.


Agree, I wish the study had been for longer, shame it was so short.

We have recently rehomed a semi-feral cat. Apparently he was a stray for approx 2yrs, when taken in to a vets (he had an ear injury) he was very scared of people & was thought to be rehomed as a farm or outdoor cat due to his behaviour.

However in a matter of days his behaviour compleytely changed & he is so cuddly & gentle ...... with us & our other cat but a comppete terror to the poor dogs. It will be interesting to see his behaviour when he starts going outside on his own. So far he only ventures outside when I am in the garden despite having constant access to it & seems to love snoozing on the window sill rather than outside with my other cat.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I do not for one minute believe time sharing is natural behaviour for a very simple reason. Feral cats do not have a home to retreat to when another cat is patrolling their shared territory, and their territories will be overlapping on all sides. It is highly unlikely any feral cat will have a central bit of territory that is truly exclusive to this one cat.

And as long as there is enough food to go around, they will not be too bothered about sharing their hunting grounds, as long as they do not chase away each other's prey. Fighting and bickering will only be a waste of precious energy that could be used for hunting, and the racket would chase off any prey that might be around. 
So any time sharing will be in the form of choosing different parts of their communal territory when hunting.

The one thing they ARE bothered about sharing is mates, which, in the case of neutered, domestic cats, doesn't even enter the equasion.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I watched and enjoyed it inasmuch as I'd enjoy any programme that featured lots of lovely cats. It actually left me feeling a bit sad though that my own cats, by comparison, lead a pretty restricted existence... such is life, unfortunately, when you compare living on a busy A road versus a lovely, quiet, sleepy village


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

I recorded it and am watching it now.
I'm bored


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I watched and enjoyed it inasmuch as I'd enjoy any programme that featured lots of lovely cats. It actually left me feeling a bit sad though that my own cats, by comparison, lead a pretty restricted existence... such is life, unfortunately, when you compare living on a busy A road versus a lovely, quiet, sleepy village


Well, as it turned out, these free-roaming cats are quite content to spend 80% of their time indoors anyway, so your fluffball isn't missing out on much of their freedom.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> I watched and enjoyed it inasmuch as I'd enjoy any programme that featured lots of lovely cats. It actually left me feeling a bit sad though that my own cats, by comparison, lead a pretty restricted existence... such is life, unfortunately, when you compare living on a busy A road versus a lovely, quiet, sleepy village


Just don't let your cats watch it then they'll never know what they are missing out on  

Seriously, the cats featured in the programme had fantastic hunting grounds yet chose to spend majority of their time indoors.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Jiskefet said:


> Well, as it turned out, these free-roaming cats are quite content to spend 80% of their time indoors anyway, so your fluffball isn't missing out on much of their freedom.


Yes, very true, I'd managed to completely forget they'd said that. And I'll console myself with the fact that mine have supervised trips into the garden. I guess I've always found it quite difficult to reconcile wanting them to 'do what cats do' with keeping them out of harm's way. In the five years I've lived here I think I've probably seen the grand total of two cats wandering around.. so we either have a very low cat population or, like mine, they are mostly indoor only.


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## Kyria (Oct 29, 2011)

I watched it too and feel that yes, they could have brought up more things eg..the indoor outdoor debate. As some have said this was a sleepy wee village there didnt seem like there was alot of traffic around so it would give you the impression that all cat owners let their cats out. Its such a shame they didnt talk about this that it can be dangerous to let them out or about cat food.

I was really taken aback with one cat that goes into the woods at night.. I would be horrified if I thought my cats go into the woods. I have woods at the top of my road, there is some small deer in there but to get to the woods you have to cross a busy main road. Thankfully my two never venture up to the top of my road.

Tipsy deffinately patrols (love that word) further than Nemo as Nemo tends to stay around the garden. We dont have many cats around here just a few, which gives me the idea that people either dont have any or they are all indoor cats. Im looking forward to seeing bit more tonight.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

jo-pop said:


> I recorded it and am watching it now.
> I'm bored


I fell asleep (my age you know) will have to watch again tonight


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## Bette (May 14, 2011)

I did quite enjoy it and so did Harry and Ingrid-both of whom were staring at it intently at various times when yowling could be heard.Ingrid did stretch,turn round and then go to sleep with her back to the TV after a bit though so I guess that sums up her opinion overall!

I did find it interesting how cats have learned to go out at different times and "share" the same territory.Very clever animals how they've worked that out-but I guess we did know about them being clever already.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I thought it was a cute programme, if not particularly ground breaking! Some gorgeous cats on it and Alfie dog was totally rapt from the beginning, even barking like a loon everytime a close up (or rilly, rilly big!) cat came on.

I dotn think that they gave cats enough credit for their flexible approach to sharing territories though. The area they were looking at was huge with plenty of space for the cats to roam. I live in a block of terraces backing onto another meaning that the cats (about one or two in every other house who all go out) have about 130ft x 50ft of space in their little block...and yet I often see them pottering about at the same time and never hear fights.
Similarly my friend has about 14 house cats in a tiny 2 bed house (which I dont agree with TBH), but the cats seem to muddle through with only a few little spats between them.
The point is that they will claim a territory and learn to accept the limitations wether its a large garden and fields, a tiny garden or even a corner of a bed. If you ask me they are alot more domesticated then the programme suggested.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Either that, or their natural inclination to share a habitat is much greater than the researchers assumed (which I think much more likely, given the way ferals tend to form colonies)....


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## CoCoTrio (Jan 3, 2013)

I was bored.

Hadn't seen BBC2's Horizon for quite a few years, but I remembered it as a proper science programme.

Mission statement: _The aim of Horizon is to provide a platform from which some of the world's greatest scientists and philosophers can communicate their curiosity, observations and reflections, and infuse into our common knowledge their changing views of the universe._

ut:

I guess it's drifted downwind a bit in recent years.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> Either that, or their natural inclination to share a habitat is much greater than the researchers assumed (which I think much more likely, given the way ferals tend to form colonies)....


I felt they were really pushing the point of cats being solitary animals, preferring their own space and company to that of other cats, which we also know is not true.

How many times have we advised people to get 2 cats or kittens to provide company for each other???

Heck, that is why I now have Mr McGee. Because Abby was lonely and needed a playmate!!!

In feral colonies, I have read that mother cats will look after each others kittens whilst they go off hunting for food. This wouldn't happen if they were solitary creatures.


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> I felt they were really pushing the point of cats being solitary animals, preferring their own space and company to that of other cats, which we also know is not true.
> 
> How many times have we advised people to get 2 cats or kittens to provide company for each other???
> 
> ...


Exactly. How would they explain Simba comforting Tiny by licking his face and head when he was frightened by the vacuum cleaner, for example? Their conclusions appeared to be a little too simplistic.


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## morgmonster (Jun 8, 2010)

CoCoTrio said:


> I was bored.
> 
> Hadn't seen BBC2's Horizon for quite a few years, but I remembered it as a proper science programme.
> 
> ...


It's been like this for a while. My friend was on one 4 or 5 years ago when they were going through a phase of having a celebrity "in charge" of each program, going round and interviewing experts, and saying stupid things. Her one was presented by Danny Wallace, and was titled something like "Are chimps human?" to which the obvious answer a 4 year old could tell you is NO. She was a bit pissed off by the final edit, it was very pop science and didn't bear much resemblance to the scientific opinion in the area despite them interviewing talking to most of the main experts. At least they've stopped doing the celebrity presenter bit...


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## CoCoTrio (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm WAY out of touch!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

MoggyBaby said:


> I felt they were really pushing the point of cats being solitary animals, preferring their own space and company to that of other cats, which we also know is not true.


Domestic moggies def arent all solitary loners. When Tootsie finally came home after being missing for a month yesterday I couldnt get near her coz Gracie and the other girls were all over her, welcoming her back!


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## londongal796 (Oct 7, 2011)

Well I have to admit I really enjoyed the programme just on it's own (I didn't realise that Horizon shows were 'scientific', I'm new to the UK really so I had never heard of it before!). I watched it in HD and was just in raptures as I looked at the gorgeous kitties in HD! (The brief moments where they had proper video anyway.)

I really liked the idea of the cats doing the 'shifts' as that is quite intelligent of them to do--just them 'keeping track' of time, if that makes sense? 

My favourite part was all the cats turning up in each others homes to scoff the leftover food!! Too funny!!!!

I think the other thing that I really liked was to see an entire town of cat lovers. Sometimes the UK feels a bit like the land of dog lovers but really there are a lot of cat lovers too!!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> I felt they were really pushing the point of cats being solitary animals, preferring their own space and company to that of other cats, which we also know is not true.
> 
> How many times have we advised people to get 2 cats or kittens to provide company for each other???
> 
> ...


I have heard that too, and I know family groups of mother and daughters often stick together. Well, we know the stories from our breeders, queens looking after each other's kittens, and I have heard the same from Peter about his rescue cats, many of them semi-feral.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

I found the programme really interesting but like the others have said it didn't really reveal anything that cat owners haven't heard before.

One thing really shocked me was the rabbit that was caught  that couldn't have been an easy feat! I also thought that the 6 household cats are lovely: the fluffy, long haired ones especially.

I text my best friend to remind her that its on and she text back saying "sorry we're watching Paul O'Grady loves dogs" instead. What a traitor!!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Steffie used to catch young rabbits all her life. She brought home at least 2 or 3 every spring, when they first venture out and haven't yet learned to be wary. When she stopped catching rabbits, I knew she was really getting old.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Finally managed to watch it -some very cute cats and some very basic science. Aelfred was glued to it though 

I have read that for female cats the territory is much smaller and more fiercely defended because they need to protect good nesting holes, water and food sources whereas a male territory is driven by the need for mates, and they hunt as they go. Early in the program there was a statement about the females staying closer to their houses which might back this up. You can only hope though, that they are busy analysing what else was going on but didn't make good telly. Do you think the fee from the tv company paid for part of the research so that they had to make it accessible?


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Is anyone watching the second part/follow up to the programme tonight - its a bit more interesting than last nights.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Aurelie said:


> Is anyone watching the second part/follow up to the programme tonight - its a bit more interesting than last nights.


Very interesting

I'm not feeling the love between the two neighbours which one stole the others cat


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

MollyMilo said:


> Very interesting
> 
> I'm not feeling the love between the two neighbours which one stole the others cat


Yes. . "When I see him following 'her' around"... that was particularly icy, wasn't it?!


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

MollyMilo said:


> Very interesting
> 
> I'm not feeling the love between the two neighbours which one stole the others cat





Notnowbernard said:


> Yes. . "When I see him following 'her' around"... that was particularly icy, wasn't it?!


Which is ironic really when you consider that she got the dog and effectively pushed the cat out. His new home looks much nicer. Was happy to see the stray get a happy ending


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Aurelie said:


> Which is ironic really when you consider that she got the dog and effectively pushed the cat out. His new home looks much nicer. Was happy to see the stray get a happy ending


I think the previous owner has big regrets 

The cat does look happy though, that's all that matters.

Oh and I found It fascinating that he never ventured back across the road again as if to really make the point!

Love cats


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Aurelie said:


> Which is ironic really when you consider that she got the dog and effectively pushed the cat out. His new home looks much nicer. Was happy to see the stray get a happy ending


Yes exactly. He just wanted a peaceful life! I really liked the lady that took the stray cat on, I was happy about that too.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Notnowbernard said:


> Yes exactly. He just wanted a peaceful life! I really liked the lady that took the stray cat on, I was happy about that too.


She was lovely and clearly he was as happy as larry


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

I thought the experiment showing the baby and the dog with seperation anxiety and a real need for the parent/owner, and then the cat who couldn't have given a monkeys was very amusing


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Aurelie said:


> I thought the experiment showing the baby and the dog with seperation anxiety and a real need for the parent/owner, and then the cat who couldn't have given a monkeys was very amusing


You don't need an experiment in this house 

I just have to put the bins out! Oh the wails


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Aurelie said:


> I thought the experiment showing the baby and the dog with seperation anxiety and a real need for the parent/owner, and then the cat who couldn't have given a monkeys was very amusing


As a scientist, it didn't strike me as particularly scientific I have to say! It would be very interesting to repeat it across specific breeds.

I agree MM, I'm pretty sure my three would have a lot to say about it! Having seen Bernard's reaction to being handled at shows (I.e. a novel situation) and his apparent relief to see me when I'm allowed back to the pen, I think the experiment would have been very different had Bernard been the test subject!


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Notnowbernard said:


> As a scientist, it didn't strike me as particularly scientific I have to say! It would be very interesting to repeat it across specific breeds.
> 
> I agree MM, I'm pretty sure my three would have a lot to say about it! Having seen Bernard's reaction to being handled at shows (I.e. a novel situation) and his apparent relief to see me when I'm allowed back to the pen, I think the experiment would have been very different had Bernard been the test subject!


Oh yes they should have done it that way!

Cats are so smart they probably knew the owner was behind the door


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## catguy (Mar 16, 2012)

Notnowbernard said:


> As a scientist, it didn't strike me as particularly scientific I have to say! It would be very interesting to repeat it across specific breeds.
> 
> I agree MM, I'm pretty sure my three would have a lot to say about it! Having seen Bernard's reaction to being handled at shows (I.e. a novel situation) and his apparent relief to see me when I'm allowed back to the pen, I think the experiment would have been very different had Bernard been the test subject!


I found the test flawed too, first of all the cats are taken out of their home range to a completely alien environment, I'd like to see the same test performed in the owner's house, we all know how attached cats are to their home territory.

Secondly the test seems to confusing affection with attachment, maybe I need to watch it again but it seemed to be implied that that cat doesn't feel genuine affection because it doesn't have a mother/child, master/dog attachment to its owner, I would argue that two cats that are close, brothers say, are obviously affectionate towards each other without having that cloying relationship and are equally affectionate towards their human companions. Like the brothers, its more of an equal partnership.

In other words, cats are not wholly dependent on humans to validate their existence, which is what we know and love about them already. If we wanted our cats to behave like dogs we'd well, own a dog.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Aurelie said:


> Which is ironic really when you consider that she got the dog and effectively pushed the cat out. His new home looks much nicer. Was happy to see the stray get a happy ending


I can understand that after 10yrs she would be a bit miffed but was surprised when she described the cat & dogs initial meeting as it didn't sound as if they had put much thought in to it & the dog ended up going for the cat. When I introduced both my dogs to the cats it was supervised, very controlled & there is no way the dogs would have been able to chase the cats off.

Anyway, the new home seemed to suit him alot better & it appeared that the new owners doted on him


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> I can understand that after 10yrs she would be a bit miffed but was surprised when she described the cat & dogs initial meeting as it didn't sound as if they had put much thought in to it & the dog ended up going for the cat. When I introduced both my dogs to the cats it was supervised, very controlled & there is no way the dogs would have been able to chase the cats off.
> 
> Anyway, the new home seemed to suit him alot better & it appeared that the new owners doted on him


Absolutely, it sounded as if the cat came home to a dog that chased it out of the house/garden  Surely she could have put a bit more thought into the intro's and done it properly!


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

omg u should see my cats reaction to the program, they cant keep their eyes off of it ha


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Aurelie said:


> Is anyone watching the second part/follow up to the programme tonight - its a bit more interesting than last nights.


Does anyone know when this follow up show will b e repeated?
I missed it......


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

catguy said:


> I found the test flawed too, first of all the cats are taken out of their home range to a completely alien environment, I'd like to see the same test performed in the owner's house, we all know how attached cats are to their home territory.
> 
> Secondly the test seems to confusing affection with attachment, maybe I need to watch it again but it seemed to be implied that that cat doesn't feel genuine affection* because it doesn't have a* mother/child, *master/dog attachment to its owner*, I would argue that two cats that are close, brothers say, are obviously affectionate towards each other without having that cloying relationship and are equally affectionate towards their human companions. Like the brothers, its more of an equal partnership.
> 
> In other words, cats are not wholly dependent on humans to validate their existence, which is what we know and love about them already. If we wanted our cats to behave like dogs we'd well, own a dog.


Oh yes, they do, only THEY are the master, and we are the dog


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## morgmonster (Jun 8, 2010)

I thought the attachment test was interesting and perfectly valid - it showed that cats don't have the SAME type of attachment to their owners as dogs do, nor as babies do to thier parents. Well of course, I knew that already - that is why I have cats! We're out of the house for 10 hours most days, if cats were like dogs or babies I couldn't have them. 

I'm sure they'll be devising tests to measure attachment in a different way - they were interested in whether cats were becoming "more" domestic, so if that happens maybe they will become more attached to us. I'm not sure that's a good thing though, there'll be a lot of cats left in shelters if they have to start requiring "no full time workers" like they usually do for dogs.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Glad it's not just me that was a bit disappointed. Wasn't as good as I expected and I didn't really learn anything.

I found the shift system really interesting and I did laugh at 'Claude' stealing food :lol: Apart from that, nothing special 


(I've not watched the follow up, though. Will give that a go later... )


But, seeing how seemingly uneventful cat's lives were outside of the home (and the incidence of territorial disputes) I have to say, it didn't make me feel bad about not letting Spooks out 

Oh, and I nearly cried seeing the baby rabbit :blushing:


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Jiskefet said:


> Does anyone know when this follow up show will b e repeated?
> I missed it......


It's available on iPlayer


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Aurelie said:


> It's available on iPlayer


I just watched it on iplayer :thumbup:


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm going to watch it on iplayer later as the OH confessed earlier that he forgot to record it for me


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Aurelie said:


> It's available on iPlayer


I think you need a British IP address to access iPlayer, which I haven't got, being in the Netherlands...


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## Kyria (Oct 29, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> I think you need a British IP address to access iPlayer, which I haven't got, being in the Netherlands...


If you can get onto You Tube I believe they have it on there


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## alixtaylor (Jan 24, 2013)

Watched this tonight, I enjoyed it.

It was interesting to hear about the shift patterns and cats stealing food etc. I did find myself getting increasingly frustrated with the fact that everyone was letting their cats out at night, it's clearly when all the stand-offs and hunting happens. For the safety of the cats and wildlife it seems silly not to keep them inside at night...

Going to watch the follow up tomorrow, I'd like to see more profiles of the cats to get a better idea of their different personalities. As Luna doesn't stray out of the garden, it does fascinate me when cats stray quite far etc.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

alixtaylor said:


> Watched this tonight, I enjoyed it.
> 
> It was interesting to hear about the shift patterns and cats stealing food etc. I did find myself getting increasingly frustrated with the fact that everyone was letting their cats out at night, it's clearly when all the stand-offs and hunting happens. For the safety of the cats and wildlife it seems silly not to keep them inside at night...:w00t:
> 
> Going to watch the follow up tomorrow, I'd like to see more profiles of the cats to get a better idea of their different personalities. As Luna doesn't stray out of the garden, it does fascinate me when cats stray quite far etc.


Without going too much off topic, I let my cats out at night at this time of year so they stay in more in the day when the birds are fledging. I would much rather they caught mice & other rodents than young birds (although they haven't shown an interest so far) & as I live in a rural location traffic isn't an issue.

Must admit I was intrigued by the cat who covered up to 15 acres during his patrols


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## alixtaylor (Jan 24, 2013)

Cleo38 said:


> Without going too much off topic, I let my cats out at night at this time of year so they stay in more in the day when the birds are fledging. I would much rather they caught mice & other rodents than young birds (although they haven't shown an interest so far) & as I live in a rural location traffic isn't an issue.
> 
> Must admit I was intrigued by the cat who covered up to 15 acres during his patrols


I guess this does depend on your location, if it's rural then they are less likely to run into other cats and traffic. I often see cats out after dark in my area and it really alarms me as I live next to a busy road in a quite built up London area.

That was pretty impressive! It's so clever how they can find their way back at such distances.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

alixtaylor said:


> I guess this does depend on your location, if it's rural then they are less likely to run into other cats and traffic. I often see cats out after dark in my area and it really alarms me as I live next to a busy road in a quite built up London area.
> 
> That was pretty impressive! It's so clever how they can find their way back at such distances.


The cats I have at present are lazy so if they ever did have 'cat cams' I'm sure they would be quite boring. A previous cat of mine though was such a character & would regularly visit other neighbours, the local pub, shops & a nearby restaurant where he would get lots of cuddles & food .... he was quite tubby but was so adorable people would fall for his 'hungry' look 

I would have loved to have watched his travels, he knew more people in the neighbourhood than I did!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I just watched the Little Cats Diary....

What a lucky boy this stray is. This lady simply accepting that she and her resident cats had been adopted by the intruder. Of course, the other cats knew all along, they had already long accepted him as a house mate.

But I do not quite agree with the conclusions of the experiment. To me it suggests that cats are more confident in themselves, more ready to explore without anyone else's acknowledgement and without needing anyone's approval or support.
It doesn't mean they love us less, but they don't depend on us, they don't look to us for protection. They come to us because they want to, not because they need us. Which is exactly why we love them the way we do.
We love and accept them for who they are, just like they do us.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Jiskefet said:


> I just watched the Little Cats Diary....
> 
> What a lucky boy this stray is. This lady simply accepting that she and her resident cats had been adopted by the intruder. Of course, the other cats knew all along, they had already long accepted him as a house mate.
> 
> ...


Must admit, I was so happy that the lady chose to take him on 

Having both cats & dogs I do feel that it is completely wrong to compare the two, they are so different & therefore will have differing reactions.

Although I do accept that 'cupboard love' is relevant I do not accept that this is always the case. One of my cats chose to live with me, I didn't feed him for 2 days (as I knew he was 'owned' by the people across the road) but he stayed despite receiving no food. Then I gave in ..... & he stayed for the next 6yrs until sadly he had to be pts


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Jiskefet said:


> I just watched the Little Cats Diary....
> 
> What a lucky boy this stray is. This lady simply accepting that she and her resident cats had been adopted by the intruder. Of course, the other cats knew all along, they had already long accepted him as a house mate.
> 
> ...


I agree with this! I felt it painted a simplistic and quite derogatory picture of cats- that they don't give two hoots who their owners are.

Like you, I thought it showed how strong-willed cats are and the confidence they exude. Instead, the conclusion was essentially 'cats will do as they please'- we all know that anyway in accepting that we're 'slaves'!

I know that if I was to do that attachment test with Spooks, he'd be very pleased to see me- all I have to do is pop out to feed the bunnies for 5 minutes and it's like we're being reunited after weeks apart when I return


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## Kyria (Oct 29, 2011)

Ive just watched the second part and found it very interesting.

The attachment test though I feel depends on your cat. The little cat they had in there seemed very friendly and it was very sweet the way it jumped up on the girls lap. I know for a fact that Nemo wouldnt have gone near her and also if I had gone out of the room and came back in Nemo would have run to greet me, as he does this if he is out in the garden and one of the kids or hubby or myself comes in the front door he will always run back inside to the house, tail errect to greet us and have a cuddle, than he goes straight back in the garden to carry on patrolling... I think it depends on your cat. Tipsy is much more aloof than Nemo he would be like that little cat in the room.

They both have different characters.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Kyria said:


> Ive just watched the second part and found it very interesting.
> 
> The attachment test though I feel depends on your cat. The little cat they had in there seemed very friendly and it was very sweet the way it jumped up on the girls lap. I know for a fact that Nemo wouldnt have gone near her and also if I had gone out of the room and came back in Nemo would have run to greet me, as he does this if he is out in the garden and one of the kids or hubby or myself comes in the front door he will always run back inside to the house, tail errect to greet us and have a cuddle, than he goes straight back in the *garden to carry on patrolling..*. I think it depends on your cat. Tipsy is much more aloof than Nemo he would be like that little cat in the room.
> 
> They both have different characters.


I vote that outdoor cats are no longer referred to as 'roaming'

Patrolling much more accurate


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

They really do patrol.
Catweazle checks out the bus stop and keeps whoever is waiting for the bus company till it arrives. He will then go into the next street, greet his human, feline and canine friends, take the foot path back into our own street and on to the path along the back gardens of the next street on the other side, on to hte children's play ground, where he will greet the children. Then back to his own street and on to the rooftops of the bungalows...

Josje will usually patrol our street and stay and the next streets on that side, she will hardly venture into the street on the side of our back garden. 
Connor patrols both streets and most of Josje's area, but spends a lot of time in the park, too. And Wobbel will spend most of his time on the roofs and in the gardens along our steet.

I don't get the impression Romeo goes very far. I will sometimes see him at the front of our house, but I guess he spends a lot of his time on the sheds and in the gardens on either side.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Jiskefet said:


> They really do patrol.
> Catweazle checks out the bus stop and keeps whoever is waiting for the bus company till it arrives. He will then go into the next street, greet his human, feline and canine friends, take the foot path back into our own street and on to the path along the back gardens of the next street on the other side, on to hte children's play ground, where he will greet the children. Then back to his own street and on to the rooftops of the bungalows...
> 
> Josje will usually patrol our street and stay and the next streets on that side, she will hardly venture into the street on the side of our back garden.
> ...


Romeo is still patrolling, sounds like they have a lot of ground to cover between them


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## Kyria (Oct 29, 2011)

MollyMilo said:


> I vote that outdoor cats are no longer referred to as 'roaming'
> 
> Patrolling much more accurate


I totally agree ...just love that word.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

MollyMilo said:


> Romeo is still patrolling, sounds like they have a lot of ground to cover between them


Catweazle used to go a lot further, he used to go 4 streets to the west and 4 streets to the east, cross the road to the neighbourhood supermarket and Chinese restaurant and visit the community centre and the retirement home. He would also go into the park. But nowadays he doesn't go far at all, you can tell he is getting really old now by the shrinking size of his territory.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

When Oscar was young he used to 'patrol' all the woods that are adjacent to our house, a public footpath runs along our front garden, many many times a friend that lives the other side of the wood used to ring up and say that he was visiting with her two cats.

As he got old though his territory shrank down to just our garden, which is quite large, new cats moved into the neighbourhood and I think he may have found them quite intimidating.

In his last couple of months though he didn't leave the house at all, he got very confused and tired very quickly.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Catweazle´s patrols in his prime in red, and nowadays in orange


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## Owned by cat (Jun 16, 2013)

Even though the Pet Detective was worried about stray infecting or causing preganancy to other cats in "Little Pets Diary", the Shamley Green cats are neutered


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## Owned by cat (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi to everyone from newbie!

I have tried to keep my Bengals in...I would be far happier if they would stay in but one of my girls in particular looks so unhappy at being locked up and that includes in a huge run with shelves to lie on, natural trees to climb and scratch at!

Remember those old fashioned zoo pens where the wild cats paced up and down, going out of their minds ....that's what my cat looked like!

She could live 15-20 years locked up, really unhappy or I can let her out to patrol!!

Which would you do? Genuinely interested to know opinions!

Ps ... can't cat proof the whole garden as we are end of road with council oak trees that the cats use to escape....believe me, I've tried!


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Owned by cat said:


> Even though the Pet Detective was worried about stray infecting or causing preganancy to other cats in "Little Pets Diary", the Shamley Green cats are neutered


Welcome to the forum Obc

Are you a Shamley slave? 

What an exciting experiment that all was for your little village!


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## Owned by cat (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi MollyMilo and thank you for the welcome.

Yes, I am a "Shamley Slave" and enjoyed the project.

One of my cats was a lot more active than I gave her credit for! I thought she slept on my bed all night but obviously she was just fooling me into a false sense of security.
During the day, she is curled up under my bed covers

I am happier she is out at night as the birds are all asleep, the country vermin are kept at bay ( I have chickens which can attract rats and mice to their grain) and that "sleepy looking village" actually has something akin to the M25 at commuter times


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

A lot depends on where you live.
If you are near a main road or a busy road, the risk of them getting run over is really great. Also, if you are close to woodland where hunters or poachers set traps, they might well get caught in one and suffer excruciating pain and die or lose a paw.

If, on the other hand, you live in a quiet area with little traffic and no traps, they would be relatively safe.
That said, even I have lost 2 cats to the road over the past 7 years, while I live in a very quiet village-like neighbourhood on the outskirts of a natural marshland and along a river. A true heaven for the cats, with no traffic but for the cars that really have to be in our little 10-street neck of the woods.

You could look into putting a catproof fence just far enough away from the trees to prevent them from climbing them


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Owned by cat said:


> Hi to everyone from newbie!
> 
> I have tried to keep my Bengals in...I would be far happier if they would stay in but one of my girls in particular looks so unhappy at being locked up and that includes in a huge run with shelves to lie on, natural trees to climb and scratch at!
> 
> ...


Hello and welcome to Petforums.

I would feel exactly the same as you and get really worried if I had an unhappy cat and couldnt bear to watch it every day pining for freedom. If you were in my situation, where I live on a cul-di-sac lane with another 5 houses and my house fronts onto a public footpath with a wood beyond I would let her roam free, providing she had all the relevent vacs and was neutered of course. All my neighbours cats are free roaming, there is only one purebred, a Maine Coon, the other nine are common or garden moggies.

But you're not me and don't live in the same situation as I do, so I couldn't possibly advise you what to do. Except maybe, couldnt you block their access to the trees in some way? Then cat proof the rest of the garden and see if your girl will settle then? Maybe just that bit or extra room to roam would appease her enough for her to enjoy her life.


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## Owned by cat (Jun 16, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> A lot depends on where you live.
> If you are near a main road or a busy road, the risk of them getting run over is really great. Also, if you are close to woodland where hunters or poachers set traps, they might well get caught in one and suffer excruciating pain and die or lose a paw.
> 
> If, on the other hand, you live in a quiet area with little traffic and no traps, they would be relatively safe.
> ...


Hi and thanks Jiskefet,

The village is really rural but as as we back more towards school woodlands there are definitely no traps.

I lost one of my cats on the main road through the village and I am haunted by the thought that she was deliberately targeted ( the response by cat haters to the Horizon program , hoping the cats would be poisoned, shot and stoned is horrible!) as it was a quiet Sunday Summer evening on an open stretch but that is equally my guilt for letting my girl out. :sad: :sad: :sad:

2 sides of the garden are trees, stream and sheds- which just add to lift the cats up into the trees to get over the wall....I will look again at some sort of fencing but they have escaped everything so far, except a run but Lilli looks so distressed in a run. My other cats have always accepted a run, even if resentfully but Lilli paces up and down, crying, going on for hours until out. Driven the neighbours mad with her cries


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Evenings are especially dangerous for cats (and early morning, too).
Not just dusk, but also the nearly setting sun, which may partially blind a driver.
Moreover, cats tend to just run into the road right in front of a car, or even run straight into the side of a passing car.

That is how both of mine were killed. No-one ran into them, it was them who ran into a car (Jiskefet) and a departing bus (Spetter). I know for a fact that Spetter tried to cross the road behind the bus and got distracted, swerved and ran into the back wheel. I was on the bus, myself, Spetter had come along to see me off, and when it pulled out, Spetter was still sitting quietly at the bus stop. It was a boy on the very back seat who saw him start running towards the road, swerve towards the bus, hit the wheel and summersault onto the curb. When he called out: 'driver, you hit that cat' I could not believe it, as I had seen Spetter still sitting there as the bus was driving away.


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## Owned by cat (Jun 16, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> That is how both of mine were killed. No-one ran into them, it was them who ran into a car (Jiskefet) and a departing bus (Spetter). I know for a fact that Spetter tried to cross the road behind the bus and got distracted, swerved and ran into the back wheel. I was on the bus, myself, Spetter had come along to see me off, and when it pulled out, Spetter was still sitting quietly at the bus stop. It was a boy on the very back seat who saw him start running towards the road, swerve towards the bus, hit the wheel and summersault onto the curb. When he called out: 'driver, you hit that cat' I could not believe it, as I had seen Spetter still sitting there as the bus was driving away.


:crying::crying: ohh how sad!

The car behind stopped and said the cat was well seen even by them, nearly across and the driver sped up!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Hope he got the license plate....

I, for one, would have found out who it was and paid him a visit......


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Owned by cat said:


> Hi MollyMilo and thank you for the welcome.
> 
> Yes, I am a "Shamley Slave" and enjoyed the project.
> 
> ...


Oh how exciting to be able to take part in that! 
You lucky things! 

Did you feel the cats should have been monitored for a bit longer? Did they wear the cat GPS devices 24/7?


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## Owned by cat (Jun 16, 2013)

MollyMilo said:


> Did you feel the cats should have been monitored for a bit longer? Did they wear the cat GPS devices 24/7?


The cats wore the collars for 24 on, 24 hrs off for a week. The Royal Vet. Collage has been back though to get more information and the cats then wore them for 48 hrs and fortunately the weather was great, so the cats were more inclined to go out....esp. those with wet toe syndrome

I did hear that they are still analysing the data and the programme could have been much more extensive but Horizon only wanted 1 one hour programme 

On a personal basis to the data on my cats, I was disappointed as a couple of my neighbours have cats and either didn't want to or couldn't take part. Therefore, my cats looked as though they went out, roamed a bit in isolation (though both my cats are active 60% of the day, which did surprise me) and then came home, whereas if the other cats had taken part, I might have seen how they met up with other local cats and reacted to each other.

I have a cat burglar, a big grey smokey coloured tom every night visits to eat my girls food and I hoped to learn about him...name, where he is from etc but again, he wasn't in the study. Now I am unsure if he is a stray, though he looks well fed - but then he would do if he is as confident pinching all cat food as he is my cat's food 

We did all get a thank you email and "hope to return if still welcome" and I'm sure, as villagers, we would love to hear more data on what our cats get up to....be nice if there was more new data to interest the general public too...not just cat lovers ( cat detesters excepted as some with never like cats, though I hate the violence encouraged by some of these people)

Sorry about the long essay but it was fun!!


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## Tidgy (Jun 30, 2010)

Did enjoy the prgram and the follow up one to it.

so now we know out cats our only after our food 


ungratefull swines,,, lol


yeah yeah i know, we all still lvoe them to bits lol


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Owned by cat said:


> The cats wore the collars for 24 on, 24 hrs off for a week. The Royal Vet. Collage has been back though to get more information and the cats then wore them for 48 hrs and fortunately the weather was great, so the cats were more inclined to go out....esp. those with wet toe syndrome
> 
> I did hear that they are still analysing the data and the programme could have been much more extensive but Horizon only wanted 1 one hour programme
> 
> ...


You won't get any cat haters in here


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## Owned by cat (Jun 16, 2013)

Tidgy said:


> so now we know out cats our only after our food
> 
> ungratefull swines,,, lol


They are even more clever than that !!!!!....they make us feel loved by them even when they turn tail and ignore our calls for cuddles.

Then when they deem to walk back in....we are there, waiting for their demands


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## Tidgy (Jun 30, 2010)

Owned by cat said:


> They are even more clever than that !!!!!....they make us feel loved by them even when they turn tail and ignore our calls for cuddles.
> 
> Then when they deem to walk back in....we are there, waiting for their demands


hahaha, cats have servants, dogs have owners, isnt that the phrase?


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