# Used a Cesar Millan tip and it worked



## Fleur

Zipper is a real puller, he's only small but he is pretty strong and a few times has pulled the lead out of my daughters hand. He frequently walks along pulling so hard he is choking himself.
Have tried gentle leaders etc and various harness. He freaks out with gentle leaders and similar and seems to like pulling into no-pull harness

So after watching Cesar I thought I would try a slip lead at the top of the neck - just behind the ears - like a show dog. 

Instant results, walks perfectly:001_smile: Couldn't believe it.
So wish I tried it before.
Tried it on Lilly, not such a dramatic improvement, but work in progress, it's only been one walk, but she is learning.

Janice- he really is pretty good you know


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## JANICE199

Fleur said:


> Zipper is a real puller, he's only small but he is pretty strong and a few times has pulled the lead out of my daughters hand. He frequently walks along pulling so hard he is choking himself.
> Have tried gentle leaders etc and various harness. He freaks out with gentle leaders and similar and seems to like pulling into no-pull harness
> 
> So after watching Cesar I thought I would try a slip lead at the top of the neck - just behind the ears - like a show dog.
> 
> Instant results, walks perfectly:001_smile: Couldn't believe it.
> So wish I tried it before.
> Tried it on Lilly, not such a dramatic improvement, but work in progress, it's only been one walk, but she is learning.
> 
> Janice- he really is pretty good you know


*Fleur i'm well pleased you have seen the light
I think that guy works wonders,he's got such a lovely way with dogs..
Remember, stay calm and assertive...lol...*


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## Fleur

JANICE199 said:


> *Fleur i'm well pleased you have seen the light
> I think that guy works wonders,he's got such a lovely way with dogs..
> Remember, stay calm and assertive...lol...*


I was very calm and assertive
My daughter got fustrated with Lilly so I quoted Cesar to her - her response was she would punch him on the nose if he ever came to our house - lol
So we swapped dogs and Zipper was as good as gold for her and she calmed down


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## JANICE199

*Haha Fleur kids eh! tell your daughter i'll have him here instead.*


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## Guest

Most working gundog people use these. Alfie walks like a dream on his, but is a little B****ard on the longline,


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## JANICE199

rona said:


> Most working gundog people use these. Alfie walks like a dream on his, but is a little B****ard on the longline,


*haha Rona perhaps they should watch Cesar too...*


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## Guest

lol...with the name Cesar in the title...pretty obvious Janice was heading over here. :lol::lol::lol:


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## Fleur

FREE SPIRIT said:


> lol...with the name Cesar in the title...pretty obvious Janice was heading over here. :lol::lol::lol:


Yep - i even gave her a special mention.:smilewinkgrin:


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## Seddie

Some of his advice can work but he does not understand fear in dogs. He also uses punishment as a first line of treatment as in the clip below. The dog is fine until Milan kicks him and then the dog, naturally has to defend himself. He cannot get away from Milan so his only option is to bite him. Eventually the dog goes into learned helplessness, which is a state that is exhibited by animals when they cannot avoid pain and punishment.Dog Whisperer | 416 | Video | Working with a Wolf | National Geographic Channel


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## JANICE199

Seddie said:


> Some of his advice can work but he does not understand fear in dogs. He also uses punishment as a first line of treatment as in the clip below. The dog is fine until Milan kicks him and then the dog, naturally has to defend himself. He cannot get away from Milan so his only option is to bite him. Eventually the dog goes into learned helplessness, which is a state that is exhibited by animals when they cannot avoid pain and punishment.Dog Whisperer | 416 | Video | Working with a Wolf | National Geographic Channel


*Sorry but i have to disagree...i've just watched the clip and i don't see how Cesar is dealing with an agresive dog ant different to another agresive dog...he wasnt cruel to the dog he just showed it who was " top dog"....*


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## Guest

Fleur said:


> Yep - i even gave her a special mention.:smilewinkgrin:


Think we all know what she thinks of that guy...lol


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## JANICE199

FREE SPIRIT said:


> Think we all know what she thinks of that guy...lol


*haha and i will never say any different, its very rare you get someone that has such a gift like Cesar has....*


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## madmaddie

Seddie said:


> Some of his advice can work but he does not understand fear in dogs. He also uses punishment as a first line of treatment as in the clip below. The dog is fine until Milan kicks him and then the dog, naturally has to defend himself. He cannot get away from Milan so his only option is to bite him. Eventually the dog goes into learned helplessness, which is a state that is exhibited by animals when they cannot avoid pain and punishment.Dog Whisperer | 416 | Video | Working with a Wolf | National Geographic Channel


I could not watch much beyond seeing him back kick the dog with his right heel and then string the poor dog up.
Cannot abide aversive training 'methods'.
MM


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## JANICE199

madmaddie said:


> I could not watch much beyond seeing him back kick the dog with his right heel and then string the poor dog up.
> Cannot abide aversive training 'methods'.
> MM


*I think i've seen ever episode of his, and he has NEVER been cruel to a dog.But perhaps if people watched all of his programes they might just get to see where he is coming from.....he LOVES dogs so why would he be cruel to them?*


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## madmaddie

I am referring the the video link posted in this thread.
He clearly back-heels this dog and strings it up.

MM


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## JANICE199

madmaddie said:


> I am referring the the video link posted in this thread.
> He clearly back-heels this dog and strings it up.
> 
> MM


*I can understand how that comes across, but if you watch his programe and listen to what he says, he is not kicking the dog as it might look...its more like a tap with your foot....
*


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## madmaddie

I am referring ONLY to this video link.
He back-heels the dog and strings it up.

The husky shows no sign of aggression other than to look at the border collie AFTER the bc looked at himin the video link.
For that 'crime' the dog was back-heeled and strung up.
That is NOT acceptable in 2009 in the world of motivational non-aversive dog training.
JMHO of course

MM


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## JANICE199

madmaddie said:


> I am referring ONLY to this video link.
> He back-heels the dog and strings it up.
> 
> The husky shows no sign of aggression other than to look at the border collie AFTER the bc looked at himin the video link.
> For that 'crime' the dog was back-heeled and strung up.
> That is NOT acceptable in 2009 in the world of motivational non-aversive dog training.
> JMHO of course
> 
> MM


*Sorry but i think you are over reacting....i've just watched the video for the 5th time, just to see what i might be missing...as i said he taps the dog with his foot, as for being "strung up", would you like to have been in his place? its not like he's a tall guy even...*


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## Tigerneko

omg it wasn't as if he tried to break its ribs or anything 

I just watched it thinking he was gonna give it a proper booting or something :001_rolleyes:

I don't watch his show very much because it's very rarely on when I manage to get hold of the remote, but i'm pretty sure that if his training methods were cruel, his show wouldn't be aired and he wouldn't be so popular & respected so highly as a trainer.


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## madmaddie

In what way do you think I am over-reacting??

A back heel is just that.
Stringing the dog up is just that.

MM


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## JANICE199

Portia Elizabeth said:


> omg it wasn't as if he tried to break its ribs or anything
> 
> I just watched it thinking he was gonna give it a proper booting or something :001_rolleyes:
> 
> I don't watch his show very much because it's very rarely on when I manage to get hold of the remote, but i'm pretty sure that if his training methods were cruel, his show wouldn't be aired and he wouldn't be so popular & respected so highly as a trainer.


*This is what upsets me, when people make statements that sound as if he is cruel without getting to see the full picture...yes, as everyone knows i'm a BIG fan of his, and i do not condone anyone being cruel to any animal...but the few will listen to silly remarks and make judgements...
But if you are in any doubt watch the video that was referd to on this link, and you can make your own mind up.....*


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## madmaddie

Merely because my opinion opposes yours, it does not render my remarks silly.
I have viewed the video in its entirety - not, as you say, without 'the full picture'.

MM


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## Guest

madmaddie said:


> I could not watch much beyond seeing him back kick the dog with his right heel and then string the poor dog up.
> Cannot abide aversive training 'methods'.
> MM


Over reacting a bit aren't you? Ive just watched that video and he was by no means aggressive to the dog...it was merely a light tap with the heel of his foot. If you watched the video in it's entirety as you say, then you would have seen that Cesar came off far worse but did a very good job of handling the dog and the situation.


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## madmaddie

In what way do you think I am 'over-reacting'?
By giving a different opinion that yours?

He back-heeled the dog.
He strung the dog up.
It is aversive dog 'training'.
The dog reacted in the only way he could. He bit.
MM


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## Guest

madmaddie said:


> In what way do you think I am 'over-reacting'?
> By giving a different opinion that yours?
> 
> He back-heeled the dog.
> He strung the dog up.
> It is aversive dog 'training'.
> The dog reacted in the only way he could. He bit.
> MM


I think you are over reacting in your use of words for a start. 
He used the back of his heel but you say he BACK-HEELED him, making it sound far more dramatic and sounding as if he hurt the dog. CLEARLY NOT THE CASE.
You also state that he STRUNG THE DOG UP...once again your description and terminology make it sound like he was trying to hurt and hang the dog. Yet again CLEARLY NOT THE CASE. He would have had no option but to handle the leash in that manner. How on earth is that hurting the dog in any way, shape or form?
I think you are reading way too much into his handling of the situation and convincing yourself he is hurting the dog. NO SUCH THING TOOK PLACE. 
Damn good dog trainer if you ask me (which you didn't). Tell me...if you were disabled and didn't have your hands to use, would you not use your feet?....Before you state the obvious and say Cesar is not disabled, the question remains the same.
YOUR POINT?


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## madmaddie

I have not dramatised the video.
I have stately simply, clearly and succinctly.

He back heeled the dog.
He strung the dog up.
I have added not further words,descriptions, implications or otherwise.
I am convincing myself of nothing.
It is aversive 'training'.
MM


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## Guest

madmaddie said:


> I have not dramatised the video.
> I have stately simply, clearly and succinctly.
> 
> He back heeled the dog.
> He strung the dog up.
> I have added not further words,descriptions, implications or otherwise.
> I am convincing myself of nothing.
> It is aversive 'training'.
> MM


My post and comments still stand...yes you did make it sound worse than it was.


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## JANICE199

madmaddie said:


> I have not dramatised the video.
> I have stately simply, clearly and succinctly.
> 
> He back heeled the dog.
> He strung the dog up.
> I have added not further words,descriptions, implications or otherwise.
> I am convincing myself of nothing.
> It is aversive 'training'.
> MM


*sorry but you have just proven my point......you keep using the same drastic terms, but have not yet proven to me that your words have any substance.
But hey Cesar doesnt need the likes of me to fight his corner...he has proved himself time and time again...he knows what he is doing,and his actions speak louder than words.*


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## Fleur

I didn't start this thread in the hope of starting an argument

All I was trying to say was that after 2 years I finally found a method that worked for me and my dog, that wasn't stressful or expensive, so that he walked with out pulling and hurting himself which he had been doing.

I enjoy Cesar Millans programmes, he has used some methods that I personally would not use - because I am not an experienced dog handler and cannot read dogs the way he can.
However his basic message is one of a calm and well balanced dog is a happy one and we should all be trying to achieve that.


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## JANICE199

*Sorry Fleur...i didnt mean to hijack your thread..I was just tring to set the record straight...*


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## Fleur

JANICE199 said:


> *Sorry Fleur...i didnt mean to hijack your thread..I was just tring to set the record straight...*


Don't worry  The world would seem a strange place if you didn't defend your man

prob should of titled it differently to avoid the contraversy (sp) - so my own fault really.


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## SpringerHusky

I find his methods fantatsic and very usefull, I use the heel tap on my springer who seems to forget he's to walk by by side and not in front (he dosen't pull but I trip over him otherwise). It works fantatsic on him and saves me wearing a halti as too many people then think he bites :sneaky2:


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## Guest

madmaddie said:


> I could not watch much beyond seeing him back kick the dog with his right heel and then string the poor dog up.
> Cannot abide aversive training 'methods'.
> MM


How many times have I seen the CM arguement - I was probably one of the most anti CM members that this forum has ever seen - How many times have I argued with members because they luvvvverd him! I could not stand the man!!! And yes I would have - at one time have agreed with you - calling him cruel and playing to the cameras - I am not going to sit her and say CM is the best - because I don't genuine think that he is - I do (sorry Janice) think there are better trainres out there - BUT - I have to say I have been watching some of his later shows, and faced with some of the' nastiest most disturbed dogs, I have to admit - he has impressed me!!! OK we all know that to make a 30 min slot may have taken 25 hours but that is the same with every programme shown - nothings live - every programme shown is cut.
DT


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## Guest

DoubleTrouble said:


> How many times have I seen the CM arguement - I was probably one of the most anti CM members that this forum has ever seen - How many times have I argued with members because they luvvvverd him! I could not stand the man!!! And yes I would have - at one time have agreed with you - calling him cruel and playing to the cameras - I am not going to sit her and say CM is the best - because I don't genuine think that he is - I do (sorry Janice) think there are better trainres out there - BUT - I have to say I have been watching some of his later shows, and faced with some of the' nastiest most disturbed dogs, I have to admit - he has impressed me!!! OK we all know that to make a 30 min slot may have taken 25 hours but that is the same with every programme shown - nothings live - every programme shown is cut.
> DT


Very well said and unbiased


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## crazybones

JANICE199 said:


> *Sorry but i have to disagree...i've just watched the clip and i don't see how Cesar is dealing with an agresive dog ant different to another agresive dog...he wasnt cruel to the dog he just showed it who was " top dog"....*


i agree with you janice he was just showing who is the "Top Dog"


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## goldendance

ive got 2 golden retriever girls,they are from working lines so the obvious choice was to use a slip lead, willow still pulls me [not hubby grrrrrr] ive used cesars tips to no avail, shes not as bad but still does it,and im a cesar fan, but still i keep watching his shows to pich up tips


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## Natik

But he is not a trainer....he is a behaviourist 

I would say he has some good points and he does a good job explaining the dog behaviour to the owners but as an "expert" he shouldnt have the need to use prong collars as often as he does. I myself was always amazed how he managed to make large breed dogs walk perfectly to heel until i started pausing the programm to have a closer look at their collar  otherwise i would have guessed it was only a check collar.

And then we forget that the dogs he works with are mostly "red zone" cases (even though i dont understand how a gsd barking at a cat can be classed as a red zone case :confused1: ) and our dogs are usually normal pet dogs with everyday issues and to apply his red zone tactics on our pet dogs could make the behaviour worse.

I also dont agree with treating fear with fear.....and thats what he does. 
Would u throw ur child which has a fear of water into the swimming pool? :confused1:
He has also been bitten so many times and im not surprised about that. 
He also stated, im sure i read that somewhere, that u cant train large dogs with rewards ..... why not? Works fine for me 

"the fractious dog was pinned to the ground by its neck after first being "hung" by a collar incrementally tightened by Millan. Millan's goal - of subduing a fractious animal - was accomplished by partially cutting off the blood supply to its brain." ----> surely that cant be right? :frown:

And he is so popular in america because what they show on tv are quick solution tactics....and thats what most people want. Putting effort and time into a dog is alot harder and more time consuming than pinning a dog down and make it scared to do the same thing again. 

But i still like his haircut though


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## ~jo~

Go watch the whole programe before you make a comment!!
the tap with the heel is to distrct the dog from a full blowen outburst. This dog was aggressive(i unlike you have seen the whole episope) and had attacked the owners trying to get toother dogs, he was going to be put down if cesar had not heled if i remember correctly,



Fleur i am really glad you managed to stop your puller i have used sme of his waling tips and my dog is so much better than he was when i got him:thumbup:


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## Fleur

goldendance said:


> ive got 2 golden retriever girls,they are from working lines so the obvious choice was to use a slip lead, willow still pulls me [not hubby grrrrrr] ive used cesars tips to no avail, shes not as bad but still does it,and im a cesar fan, but still i keep watching his shows to pich up tips


I had used a slip lead before but Zipper nearly strangled himself, however by putting it high up on his neck it was like having a different dog, the coughing and heavy breathing that normaly goes with a collar and lead disapeared and he was much more relaxed.
Lilly is still very much work in progress - at 7lb she is never going to cause me a problem but I worry about her harming herself - she even chokes herself when pulling in her harness.


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## goldendance

as you know im a cesar fan,
this man wouldnt be in his position today if his method didnt work,
as for back heeling??? this is a touch on the dogs rump from your foot to redirect the dogs attention back to you, [its supposed to only be a touch] ive used this method with both my dogs and it works wonders


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## Fleur

~jo~ said:


> Fleur i am really glad you managed to stop your puller i have used sme of his waling tips and my dog is so much better than he was when i got him:thumbup:


Thanks for that will have ago again later - once he has had a good run - and see if he is as good today, I'm not expecting a miracle I know it's 2 steps forward 1 step back, as with anything in live

And I'll have to take Lilly out separately as she just pulls to get to Zipper.


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## mr.stitches

What an interesting thread!

I must admit, to back up what a couple of other people have said, the tap on the dogs rump with his foot is to take the dogs attention off of whatever it is he is focused on. I have seen Cesar do this many times, but never have I seen a dog react so forcefully as this one.

I dont agree with training methods where a dog is hurt, but then again, thats how most people feel!

I think if you have a different opinon about things, thats fine, but I dont know why certain people have to become so defensive and just horrid about it.

TBH if I was faced with an agressive dog/one that I thought was going to attack me, my first thought would certainly not be, 'How do I control the dog without hurting it'.....it would be to put my safety first.


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## snoopcat

I am a fan of Caesar with one exception, when he deals with strong dogs, nothing is ever mentioned in the programme but if you look at the change in collar/lead he sometimes uses those horrible ones that have spikes on the inside. These are illegal in Britain. I cannot justify their use. I have friends with big/strong dogs including mastifs, rottweilers, great danes etc, none of them need to use these collars.


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## Dundee

> but if you look at the change in collar/lead he sometimes uses those horrible ones that have spikes on the inside. These are illegal in Britain.


Do you mean prong collars? If so, there are not illegal in the UK, but are not widely used and are banned by police for use on their dogs.

As Rona says, gundog handlers use slip leads and this method and have probably done so since before CM was born  There is no ONE way to train a dog and none of these trainers have methods that are particularly unique to them (even if the PR makes it appear that way).

The main thing that worries me about CM and many of the other 'tv' dog trainers is that the public may adopt certain methods without understanding the real problem with their dogs. This can lead to making things worse.


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## Guest

We have a trainer in this area that uses prong collars, and I must admit, I thought they were illegal and tried to report him for it as he was using them on puppies that pull on the lead. I was told that there is nothing that can be done to stop him as he is not breaking the law.


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## sleeptalker

i have been using slip leads on my two for a few weeks now, along with cesears way on a quick pull to the side to correct them and ours have improved a hundred percent whilst walking. we also do the 'tsssst' thing and it works, this combined with me feeling in more control whilst walking them has seen mikitos nervousness improve greatly as well. like peeps say its no quick fix, they haven't become fab walkers within an hour but its definatley working for us. and in his programs it says he uses what the owner has been using for a collar, he rarely introduces the prong coller, only in extreme cases.


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## Luvdogs

When out and about with the dogs now, i seem to get Ceasar quotes, about energies etc  lol.
I fell out with my breeder over Ceasar methods, as i was told to pin my pup down if it misbehaved :-( needless to say i didn't take her advice...Not a great way to build a bond with my pup.


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## hazyreality

i to have used the heel tap on a bullmastiff i look after who insistently jumps up, and she hurts! i tapped her with my foot and 'tsst' her, it only took my tapping her twice before she realised it wasnt something i wanted her to do. also have tapped with hand on her and she responds brilliantly, making her wait for me to go thru the door first etc... as for "stringing the dog up" how else are you going to stop that dog taking a chunk out of you(or should it be another chuck out of him). he was trying to avoid a confrontation between the 2 dogs(which is what he was there for) and the dog turned on him instead. 
i have watched a huge amount of CM episodes and have never thought he was being cruel, it is hard viewing sometimes when he pins the dog down, but i know that he is doing it for the best, unless he was top dog he couldnt do anything with the bad cases, and can i point out if he was cruel to dogs, why would his pack be so excited when he goes back home!?! they dont look scared for sure!

*Heidi*


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## Guest

rona said:


> We have a trainer in this area that uses prong collars, and I must admit, I thought they were illegal and tried to report him for it as he was using them on puppies that pull on the lead. I was told that there is nothing that can be done to stop him as he is not breaking the law.


Besides the prong collars neither are electric collars banned - they were trying to get them banned but as far as I know they are still legal


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## Guest

DoubleTrouble said:


> Besides the prong collars neither are electric collars banned - they were trying to get them banned but as far as I know they are still legal


Yep he uses them as well, I told the kennel club cos he's listed with them, and they are supposed to be anti electric collars. Nothings been done, they need his money I suppose


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## snoopcat

What is the justification for the pronged collar????


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## Guest

snoopcat said:


> What is the justification for the pronged collar????


Personally i dont think there can be any....in my opinion i think they are cruel


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## Tigerneko

i'd never heard of a prong collar until now...they look awful! Surely there's other more humane ways of training dogs? Maybe in very extreme cases of serious aggression I could see why it might be used, but not just for general dog training, there's loads of other methods for things that don't involve stabbing your dog


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## ~jo~

I have never seen hin recomend the use of a prong collar
He will normally go with what the owners use. If they use a halty or a harness he uses the lead upside down as it were as a choke chain pressure and release technique.


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## JANICE199

*Anyone notice how calm i am being? It must be all those good vibes from Cesar..*


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## vizzy24

Gotta love him!!!!! NO touch
No talk 
No eye contact

Makes me laugh everytime!!!!!


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## hazyreality

i've never seen him use a prong collar or a electric collar so i cant say that he's wrong for what he uses. every one ive watched he's tried to use whatever the owner has been using or that funny 2 collar thing or a slip lead. i still like his shows, i think he saves alot of dogs from being PTS. 

someone i knew used a zappy collar on her rescue german shepherd after he ripped the face off of one of her horses. she thought it was better than putting the electric fence on. she had it on him and trained him not to go near the paddock fences and after a few weeks he left well alone. i dont like them at all and would never use one, but i can see that she needed a quick solution and she decided on that.

*Heidi*


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## Guest

rona said:


> We have a trainer in this area that uses prong collars, and I must admit, I thought they were illegal and tried to report him for it as he was using them on puppies that pull on the lead. I was told that there is nothing that can be done to stop him as he is not breaking the law.


I think i know the trainer you are referring to, in billingshurst area? He told me to use both prong and electric collar on buster when he was a puppy, i promptly went elsewhere!

They are both legal in this country (poss elec collar illegal in wales now??) I have seen prong collars used on smaller sized dogs who were yelping when used 
My personal opinion on both is that the "quick solution" is a result of laziness and not being bothered to train properly.

No opinions on CM, im unsure of his techniques mainly cos I am aware of the great level of editing on the programs so i think it is hard to make a rational judgement. We dont know what happens off camera, no the level or depth of some of the more troubled dogs - a dog biting could be through fear of CM because of what has happened off screen (possible negative association to foot taps off screen) or simply just severe aggression problems


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## Guest

You're right, trouble is all the women of a certain age, think he's wonderful
I have seen so many dogs suffering because of this man


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## JANICE199

rona said:


> You're right, trouble is all the women of a certain age, think he's wonderful
> I have seen so many dogs suffering because of this man


*Suffering because of Cesar? do you know how many dogs he has? all because others think they should be pts?*


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## Lily's Mum

Get a GOlden Retriever - they come half trained lol


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## Guest

Yeh but the other half can be a b**ger


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## Guest

I would want to know ALL the ins and out of any training method that uses aversive techniques, or the dominance techniques which personally i think could be very dangerous if misused.

Said trainer in the area used to try to "dominate" aggressive dogs in the class i attended (GSD in this case) and often exsasperated the situation doing so. 
I for one would not like to alpha roll a dog with known aggression issues, as if it feels provoked, cornered or fearful it is likely to lash out.

The main thing i dont trust about CM is that he is a handsome (not my type  ) and charismatic character and you can miss alot while he "charms" the camera. I find it interesting to turn off the sound and watch the dogs body language, to me some look very nervous, and unhappy when apparently they are being submissive.

Because you do not see the whole picture I cant say either way if he is good or not at what he does in the long term (it could be he creates ticking time bombs, or it could be he totally resolves all a dogs problems) 
But i do think televising his methods is dangerous. People that do not fully understand his methods try to replicate what he does (despite the shows warnings), and this is what damages dogs further. Poor understanding and monkey see monkey do.


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## Guest

JANICE199 said:


> *Suffering because of Cesar? do you know how many dogs he has? all because others think they should be pts?*


Sorry not talking about Cesear but about local trainer. have no comment on your guy


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## Lily's Mum

rona said:


> Yeh but the other half can be a b**ger


Is that the gardener side of them> or perhaps the lets nick the kids tea side...or well yes I do see ur point lol


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## Natik

Good point there...sound off and u might see the real body language of the dogs which show definitly fear


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## Guest

Lily's Mum said:


> Is that the gardener side of them> or perhaps the lets nick the kids tea side...or well yes I do see ur point lol


No, it's the oh lets chase that bunny. NOOOO I can't hear you


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## Dundee

> Because you do not see the whole picture I cant say either way if he is good or not at what he does in the long term (it could be he creates ticking time bombs, or it could be he totally resolves all a dogs problems)
> But i do think televising his methods is dangerous. People that do not fully understand his methods try to replicate what he does (despite the shows warnings), and this is what damages dogs further. Poor understanding and monkey see monkey do.


I wholeheartedly agree - well said.


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## madmaddie

Just in case anyone believes he doesn't use aversive methods.........

KOMO News - Video - Video - Are the Dog Whisperer's methods harmful?

MM


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## Luvdogs

I certainly wouldn't use these methods with my dogs.


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## hutch6

The only thing four dog trainers will agree on is that the third one's method are wrong.

There is no magic method to use that will guarantee the perfect dog in a quick fix but I do think the methods he uses show what you need to do to keep on top of the behaviour issues that owners are experiencing. I use the phrase "on top of" becasue a large numebr of the dogs he sees have had issue for a long time and to extinguish that behaviour is not a quick fix.

The methods I see the Dog Borstal lot use can be extreme but they use them to show you waht methods are available as well as getting a quick turn around for the show. The shaker bottle, the water spray, the citronella collar are all dmaging methods that require great consistancy and timing in orde rto not instill the wrong reaction in the dog and they teach them to owners that have barely got a grip on reality, put that level of power in the hand of someone the dog doesn't respect in the first place, make a quick film and then send them home thinking they are experts on using such powerful methods.

I for one would much rather try using body language, positive thinking etc, and little but decisive corrections first than go spraying water in my dog's face or shaking a bottle of gravel next to his head.

Any dog with no respect for it's owner, no leadership, no manners, frustration, anxiety, etc are all ticking time bombs in one way or another some more damaging than others.

What surprises me from all of these types of programmes is how little exercise the dogs actually get and the look on the owners face when they learn their little Yorkie needs a 1hr walk every day.

Before you slate any trainer you see on TV read what they have to say as it is not editted for TV, it is there words and how they feel about what they deal with.


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## Nina

rona said:


> Most working gundog people use these. Alfie walks like a dream on his, but is a little B****ard on the longline,


Language rona 

Luika is now going through his Manchester United stage, a real yob.

I have been really slack with him these past two weeks and did not feel able to train after losing Melody. Today, forced myself back to normality and found him darn hard work. Training tomorrow, so hopefully he will behave himself.

That'sthe trouble with GSD's, give them an inch and they will take a yard!!!!

CESAR ROCKS.


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## Guest

Nina said:


> Language rona
> 
> Luika is now going through his Manchester United stage, a real yob.
> 
> I have been really slack with him these past two weeks and did not feel able to train after losing Melody. Today, forced myself back to normality and found him darn hard work. Training tomorrow, so hopefully he will behave himself.
> 
> That'sthe trouble with GSD's, give them an inch and they will take a yard!!!!
> 
> CESAR ROCKS.


Well I don't row with anybody so got too let of steam somehow:001_tt2:


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## Monleish

Good for you, it worked for me to, I bought a new stud dog and untill now had never been exposed to the outside word, sadly he had only seen the inside of his kennel and run for 6 yrs. He had never been in a house, walked in the street or had any human kindness. He is a shy boy and put his bum to the ground when i put a collar and lead on him. I used cesar millan method of lead high and never put any tension down the lead, he displayed a few Temper tantrums the first 10 mins, but then realised how nice it was to walk side by side with one of my bitches....... 4 weeks later he is free roaming the woods and coast line of Scotland when out walking and comes to my every recall..............


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## hazyreality

hutch6 said:


> The only thing four dog trainers will agree on is that the third one's method are wrong.
> 
> There is no magic method to use that will guarantee the perfect dog in a quick fix but I do think the methods he uses show what you need to do to keep on top of the behaviour issues that owners are experiencing. I use the phrase "on top of" becasue a large numebr of the dogs he sees have had issue for a long time and to extinguish that behaviour is not a quick fix.
> 
> The methods I see the Dog Borstal lot use can be extreme but they use them to show you waht methods are available as well as getting a quick turn around for the show. The shaker bottle, the water spray, the citronella collar are all dmaging methods that require great consistancy and timing in orde rto not instill the wrong reaction in the dog and they teach them to owners that have barely got a grip on reality, put that level of power in the hand of someone the dog doesn't respect in the first place, make a quick film and then send them home thinking they are experts on using such powerful methods.
> 
> I for one would much rather try using body language, positive thinking etc, and little but decisive corrections first than go spraying water in my dog's face or shaking a bottle of gravel next to his head.
> 
> Any dog with no respect for it's owner, no leadership, no manners, frustration, anxiety, etc are all ticking time bombs in one way or another some more damaging than others.
> 
> What surprises me from all of these types of programmes is how little exercise the dogs actually get and the look on the owners face when they learn their little Yorkie needs a 1hr walk every day.
> 
> Before you slate any trainer you see on TV read what they have to say as it is not editted for TV, it is there words and how they feel about what they deal with.


Nicely Said!!!!

*Heidi*


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## goodvic2

Cesar did not kick that dog - how anyone can look at that and not see it for what it was? Cesar uses a TAP on the side of the dog to distract them from their fixation. In this case the husky was focusing on the collie. String him up? The dog is a red zone dominent/aggressive and needed to be handled like that. The dog had to submit to him. 

Somebody mentioned a pronged collar. I have never ever seen this on any show. He always used those cheap 35 cent leads. I would be interested to find out when/which show this was ..........

Finally, Cesar is not a trainer he is the equivilent of a shrink. He helps dogs to become balanced. This man has done more for dog's and their owners than all the trainers put together. I speak from experience as I have 2 street dogs which I got abroad. Using his methods they have come from being partially ferril to nearly well balanced dogs. So much so that I have just got a third rescue dog.


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## JANICE199

goodvic2 said:


> Cesar did not kick that dog - how anyone can look at that and not see it for what it was? Cesar uses a TAP on the side of the dog to distract them from their fixation. In this case the husky was focusing on the collie. String him up? The dog is a red zone dominent/aggressive and needed to be handled like that. The dog had to submit to him.
> 
> Somebody mentioned a pronged collar. I have never ever seen this on any show. He always used those cheap 35 cent leads. I would be interested to find out when/which show this was ..........
> 
> Finally, Cesar is not a trainer he is the equivilent of a shrink. He helps dogs to become balanced. This man has done more for dog's and their owners than all the trainers put together. I speak from experience as I have 2 street dogs which I got abroad. Using his methods they have come from being partially ferril to nearly well balanced dogs. So much so that I have just got a third rescue dog.


*i have to point out, yes he has used the prong collar. But as i said a couple of days ago, he did say it should only be used by people that know how to use them...*


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## Monleish

A lot of people here seem to be under the illusion that Cesar Millan is a DOG TRAINER, he openly states he is not, Dog sycology (excuse spelling if wrong) is what he uses. The way he handles dogs is taking them back to puppyhood and teaching them what there mothers would have done if they were still within a pack... they are all wolves remember.... We do not critisize when we see a Bitch pick up a troublesome pup and give it a good shake, or pin it to the floor untill it has expelled its temper tantrum, its just the same. The man is amazing with dogs and should be respected for all the charitable work he does for rescue centres ect....


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## Lavenderb

I think he handled that dog amazingly well in the video clip. He isn't exactly a large man and it could have easily turned into something very bad if he didn't know how to handle the situation.
I would rather have someone like him show a dog who is boss then have someone walking the streets with a dog they can't handle and that is a danger to others.
In the world of the dog pack each dog has its rank and if you overstep that rank you pay the price, sometimes death.
I have used some of his methods on my dog and I have to say they haven't failed me yet.


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## alphadog

I have tried some of Cesar's techniques on some of my dogs; some have worked, some have not. Just the same as any other techniques! But to remain calm and assertive surely must be every dog owner's mantra, regardless of your feelings towards Cesar?! 

Hopefull we're clever enough to work out the amount of work that goes into some cases off-camera. Sometimes Cesar takes dogs back to live with his pack, often for weeks at a time, which they talk about- there is also a re-cap section at the end of each programme that talks about how the family are continuing with the behaviour program. Neither the programme makers nor Cesar make claims of a quick fix. It's a shame if the viewers can't work this out for themselves!

Cesar said on a programme shown only last week that he doesn't favour prong collars but he likes to offer the dog continuity and this was the collar the owners chose, the dog didn't pull with Cesar leading anyway so in this case it was academic


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## alphadog

PS glad that this worked for you Fleur, I tried it but the lead kept slipping down because my collie is such a wick little fidget bum! I'll try again I think


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