# Annoyed! Manifold Valley Meats Delivery FB Page



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

So I put a post on about the chicken feet I have which have what look like burns on the soles. A few people comment, equally like eek that doesn't look great. A co ordinator posts a few links and tells me where to email MVM direct.

Well today, PING my post has gone, all the comments are gone, and now all posts have to be approved by admin in order to be posted 

For anyone interested, these are my chicken feet. I have 2kg, they are supposed to be from free range hens and I am trying to obtain a decent explanation from MVM direct but have had no response as yet. I had chickens for 8 years + and none of them ever had this on their feet, so I'm not really that convinced by the 'oh its common in mud' theory so far.

Also, others I have spoken to have MVM chicken feet and no burnt soles, so I'm half wondering if I've been dumped with non free range chicken feet but not been informed of this.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

That's awful, I really hope they have a very good explanation for this GS


----------



## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

They definitely have some explaining to do!


----------



## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Is this on the delivery co-ordination group that Lesley manages?

I left the group as I decided to collect it from now on.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Someone posted links and apparently to a degree it can be normal, but why did every single foot from my 2kg lot have burns like this? Not some, ALL of them have these. Others with MVM chicken feet don't seem to have the same issue so I'm wondering what is going on...



Leanne77 said:


> Is this on the delivery co-ordination group that Lesley manages?
> 
> I left the group as I decided to collect it from now on.


Yes it is. I can see why they might not want it there, but could they not have told me it was being deleted, or even Lesley have told me if she deleted it?

Just being deleted and no one saying anything doesn't look very good I don't think


----------



## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

That page is a joke, and Lesley really annoys me. I joined that group because I wanted to have a change from DAF and I like the range they do. However, the don't deliver up as far as here (I am near Glasgow) and I would need to have it Fedex'ed up here (£15 delivery for 45lb of meat - no chance!). So, someone else pointed me in the direction of another supplier that does deliver up here (and at that point ONLY delivered up here, although he does have a route planned to the north of England for the 9th of this month) and I had a small conversation with this person about this other supplier, and heyho it was deleted pretty quickly... Now, considering MVM don't even deliver up here without the use of Fedex which just isn't worth the delivery for the amount of meat, I don't see why it is such a big issue. If they bothered so much about losing customers in Scotland, then they should start delivering up here... or just except that we won't be customers!

And, what annoys me more is that she doesn't even work for them! She is just an obsessed customer! 

And breathe... rant over :lol:

I hope you get some answers about the feet.


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GS - contact Teressa or Lee personally - they're the only ones who can tell you for sure. 

I'll PM you the numbers.


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

If this was cause by say urine soaked sawdust or something, surely you would expect the burns to be on the other parts of the foot that touch the floor as well?


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SLB said:


> GS - contact Teressa or Lee personally - they're the only ones who can tell you for sure.
> 
> I'll PM you the numbers.


Thanks, I've sent an email will see if I get anywhere with that first.



Lexiedhb said:


> If this was cause by say urine soaked sawdust or something, surely you would expect the burns to be on the other parts of the foot that touch the floor as well?


To be fair the claws are fairly long, not much else of the foot would be in contact with the floor 24/7. My chickens never had this I know that much, and at least one member on here has had MVM feet with no burns on at all, which seems weird when my entire 2kg have burns..?

I just want a decent explanation, if this is normal for free range I'm heading to veganism


----------



## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> So I put a post on about the chicken feet I have which have what look like burns on the soles. A few people comment, equally like eek that doesn't look great. A co ordinator posts a few links and tells me where to email MVM direct.
> 
> Well today, PING my post has gone, all the comments are gone, and now all posts have to be approved by admin in order to be posted
> 
> ...


As i've put on the other thread, i'm pretty sure it's foot pad dermititis. It is alot more common in free range birds so you haven't been conned, it is also caused by standing in wet conditions so if they've been kept in mud that would certainly explain it.

You will find some level (10-18% ish) of FPD in the majority of commercial flocks but it is a welfare issue and high levels should be concerning the farmer.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

lennythecloud said:


> As i've put on the other thread, i'm pretty sure it's foot pad dermititis. It is alot more common in free range birds so you haven't been conned, it is also caused by standing in wet conditions so if they've been kept in mud that would certainly explain it.
> 
> You will find some level (10-18% ish) of FPD in the majority of commercial flocks but it is a welfare issue and high levels should be concerning the farmer.


I'm hoping they themselves will give me an explanation, even if it is this one because at least its vaguely palatable.

Still strange how every foot in my 2kg have it though, unless they picked the 10-18% ish of hens with this and gave their feet to me only. No one on the group seemed to have had them with burns either, yet all of mine did. Its just a bit 

And it looks bloody sore too, regardless


----------



## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> I'm hoping they themselves will give me an explanation, even if it is this one because at least its vaguely palatable.
> 
> Still strange how every foot in my 2kg have it though, unless they picked the 10-18% ish of hens with this and gave their feet to me only. No one on the group seemed to have had them with burns either, yet all of mine did. Its just a bit
> 
> And it looks bloody sore too, regardless


It may have been that your birds came from a particular flock with a higher incidence of the problem (maybe because of poorer ventilation, more mud in their paddock, leaky water drinker etc). It's hard to tell from the photo but you can have a go at grading how severe the leisons are from here http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/onfarm/documents/fpd-key-card.pdf , if you have alot that you think may score 2 then it's not considered very good.

Sometimes high levels of FPD are only detected on slaughter so hopefully if there was a problem then it has been sorted. As a paying customer you should really get an explanation even if they only repeat what i've said.


----------



## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

This is a bit weird isnt it.

I ordered 2kg of chicken feet for my delivery (which was delivered today) and they were missing from the order so I emailed them and asked why, they said they had run out so I said thats fine...but on reading this I wonder if they're pulling them off for sale for some reason?


----------



## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I hope you get your answer GS. 

I no longer have anything to do with the FB page. I deal with MVM direct and find it less confusing.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

MVM have said Foot Pad Dermatitis is common and X amount is acceptable in a flock basically. Still not really happy to feed them though so will chuck them out I reckon.

MVM have told me they have nothing to do with the Delivery page, which must mean that Lesley Morgan must have deleted me, she has also removed me from her friend's list 

So because I had a welfare query regarding some of their produce, she sees it fit to basically attempt to cut me out completely and block me from having any contact with anything MVM. She knows full well that Rupert is a very sick dog and that I rely on decent communication and info with providers in order to try and keep his health at a manageable level. The delivery page is the most active I have seen for MVM and therefore the place I go in regard to questions re the food and people's experiences.

Looks like I'll be heading back to wet food and kibble at this rate.


----------



## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Lennythecloud said it better than I could! It's definitely footpad dermatitis which can be caused by high levels of ammonia in the dirty substrate as well as the possible causes suggested by LTC. 
My guess would be that your chicken feet are from a particularly low welfare farm which can still include free range units. I've visited a free range chicken farm which looked lovely at first glance - chickens running around outside, scratching and dustbathing - but the main shed was still packed with the birds too scared or unable to go outside, which was the majority of them.

Sorry to hear you've had a rubbish order, not sure I'd want to feed them either but could be worth trying to slice off the lesion so the rest isn't wasted.


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GS - Email them direct - I have never had an issue with communication with them.


----------



## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I am always very suspicious of people who don't actually work for the company you're dealing with. OK, Lesley may have great intentions, but she's obviously got too much time on her hands so has made the FB page her full time job. 

It's useful to MVM as it's a good advert for them, but Lesley isn't necessarily their voice, and it's a bit scary that she might be deleting things before MVM themselves even see them.

I think you had a valid query, and answered properly on the page may have helped other people understand. But deleting it would do more damage than good.

I run a FB page for one of my websites - must admit there was an adverse comment put up which I considered deleting, but I left it up, and the comments that answered it balanced it all out in the end.


----------



## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm not even going to get started on Lesley... After what has happened since I first posted on this thread, she has really shown how low she can go. If I were MVM I wouldn't want her representing my company, which she seems to have taken upon herself.


----------



## Rawisbest (Oct 7, 2012)

I think what started out as good intentions with this lady (L) might end up being MVM's biggest headache. I don't use MVM because they don't deliver to me but their food looks excellent and on a par with stuff I get from Dundee pet foods- HOWEVER, she's going to start putting people off the company if she's not careful and doesn't step back a bit- most people probably think she's an employee but as someone else stated she's an obsessed customer.
I think giving her an admin hat for a couple of FB groups was the worst mistake ever- one group already has been ruined.

Sorry, can't help with the chicken feet even though I keep chickens myself. It's an unusual place for ammonia scalds, normally see that on the hocks.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I think it may actually be a sign of slightly higher welfare birds, it may be the beginnings of Bumblefoot which hasn't progressed because they birds are killed fairly young.


----------



## Rawisbest (Oct 7, 2012)

Bumblefoot happens to animals kept on wire flooring.
I don't trust a company to say their stuff is free range, it would be my guess these are ex battery hens hence the sores on feet from being kept in cages.
This year I'm rearing my own chicks (i need more layers anyway) and any extra hens or cocks are for the dogs. It's the only way I can be sure they've been well cared for.


----------



## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

Pass the pics to environmental health - they will investigate the cause of this just in case they have been slaughtered incorrectly.

The company won't find it so easy to dodge their questions.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Rawisbest said:


> Bumblefoot happens to animals kept on wire flooring.
> .


Or those that have access to perches which could be why it's in the middle of the foot


----------



## Sarahferret (Apr 25, 2012)

lozzibear said:


> I'm not even going to get started on Lesley... After what has happened since I first posted on this thread, she has really shown how low she can go. If I were MVM I wouldn't want her representing my company, which she seems to have taken upon herself.


What has happened since your first post?!?

I abandoned the coordination page ages ago, and other FB pages Lesley is on, I'm getting a bit sick of. As you say, MVM might be wise to rein her in!


----------



## Wyrd (Jul 27, 2010)

Haven't read the whole thread but it looks like bumblefoot on the chicken feet.


----------



## Rawisbest (Oct 7, 2012)

rona said:


> Or those that have access to perches which could be why it's in the middle of the foot


That's very true, good point.


----------



## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Thorne said:


> Lennythecloud said it better than I could! It's definitely footpad dermatitis which can be caused by high levels of ammonia in the dirty substrate as well as the possible causes suggested by LTC.
> My guess would be that your chicken feet are from a particularly low welfare farm which can still include free range units. I've visited a free range chicken farm which looked lovely at first glance - chickens running around outside, scratching and dustbathing - but the main shed was still packed with the birds too scared or unable to go outside, which was the majority of them.
> 
> Sorry to hear you've had a rubbish order, not sure I'd want to feed them either but could be worth trying to slice off the lesion so the rest isn't wasted.


Completely agree with this, i've seen some dire welfare standards on free range units and comparitively very good barn systems so it really isn't clear cut.

I've fed feet with mild FPD to my dogs with no issue, it you cut off any really manky leisons then the rest of the foot shouldn't pose any risk to a healthy dog.


----------



## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Bumblefoot is the common term for pododermatitis, aka foot pad dermatitis. It's the same condition and symptoms but there's a myriad of different causes - either way I'm sure the chickens were very uncomfortable! 
Not the nicest thing to see when you open your dog food delivery...


----------



## WYDR (Jun 21, 2010)

For anyone interested I also had a run in with this unscrupulous company, simply because I asked about the sourcing of meat in a polite way, surely this should not be an issue but it was.

This is my review of their appalling treatment I received

Manifold Valley Meats - AMAZING RUDENESS
After seeing many recommendation for Manifold Valley Meats I thought I'm quite interested to give this a go - especially to try my boys on some different meats.

For me I find it important that suppliers can tell me where their meat comes from and whether or not they support/avoid intense farming. So on Monday night I posted a query regarding this on their Facebook they came back straight away and also told me that if I have any queries to ring them.... I thanked them politely.

Anyway I was satisfied as they also changed their website to explain their sourcing...

So this morning I thought woohoo I'm going to order some exciting stuff, I sent a polite ordering enquiry email listing what I would like, together with my name, adress and contact telephone number.

I was rung back, and wallet in hand, I took the call from the owner himself....

Who told me.....

THAT HE WAS NOT INTENDING TO FOR-FILL MY ORDER EVER...
He asked me where I currently shopped and I said NI, he told me I was better off sticking with them because he wanted nothing to do with a troublemaker like myself, I was probably a journalist digging around. He also mentioned a customer by name! (DATA PROTECTION or what!) to me "and your friend "customer", you are both trouble makers" "we do not want anything to do with you" "do not ever come back". On this note I know this lady - yes but only vaguely via a forum!

*I can only think as I was querying the SOURCING OF THE MEAT I WAS LABELLED A TROUBLE MAKER*

Overall I am really shocked and felt very insulted by his insinuations, it's been along time since I have been treated this rudely...

Also since I feel my query about the sourcing of meat is a legitimate one - and one I asked only asked nicely & politely.

1. I am NOT a journalist I am a graphic & webdesigner
2. I am NOT a troublemaker I was a POTENTIAL customer feeding 3 large dogs

This communication has left me with a very bad taste, and makes ONE wonder ...

Well this proves his point perhaps, as I kindly told this rude man I was not out to make trouble but you have created it by treating me like this!

LET'S GET THIS RIGHT - as far as I know, of myself, I have NOT criticised or raised questions that should warrant such a total overreaction or paranoia.


----------



## 1966 kerry (Jul 31, 2012)

I would ring MVM directly I do and ive even been to pick up from them, they are a friendly couple and who I would think would want to hear your concerns so they can deal with them and help you I would also inform them of this LESLEY and the damage she my be doing. Its always best to deal with people directly and not through a 3rd party, Hope you get the answers


----------



## Rawdiva (Feb 13, 2013)

I am surprised at what has been written about MVM. I have had nothing but good experiences with them and they have been over helpful. Even the van driver helped over and above what he needed to do! Phonecalls to tell me whats out of stock, even though I put alternatives on the order to save them time ringing me, you dont get that very often these days 

I have turkey feet in my freezer that have exactly the same mark on and its nothing to worry about at all, its perfectly ok to give to the dogs and I cant remember having feet without that on to be honest. I get them from Nurturing by Nature and its normal. We are in winter and floors do get wet and dont get a chance to dry out. I was told it was just dermatitis. I have a rule of thumb, I always ring the company involved, discuss it direct with them and get it sorted. We cant all get on all of the time :001_unsure:


----------



## Rawdiva (Feb 13, 2013)

> Well this proves his point perhaps, as I kindly told this rude man I was not out to make trouble but you have created it by treating me like this!


Having read this in the previous comments, does it not ring alarm bells of someone wanting to cause trouble by posting this? 
What has been said, in such a perfect story way, makes me think.


----------



## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

WYDR said:


> For anyone interested I also had a run in with this unscrupulous company, simply because I asked about the sourcing of meat in a polite way, surely this should not be an issue but it was.
> 
> This is my review of their appalling treatment I received
> 
> ...


That is a terrible way for them to treat you! I have only had contact with them through email, and they were nice enough then... maybe Lesley had told them that you were enquiring about the meat source? She may have made it out to be more than what it is...

I do wonder if they have had complaints about the FB page, and maybe as a result they are becoming a bit touchy? I don't know but the number of people that are annoyed by that page, and moreso by Lesley, it wouldn't surprise me. The way that she has behaved towards some people on FB is absolutely disgusting... if I were MVM I would be telling her to disassociate herself with the company, because she does NOT make them look good... especially given the fact that many people believe that page IS MVM.


----------



## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I think Lesley has brought in so much custom for MVM they may be a little wary of getting her offside. After all, if she can boost business by spreading the word, i'm sure it could just as easily work the other way.

I have contacted MVM via email (phone wasnt answered) about a whole host of items that were missing from the delivery and they rang me back asap apologising. However, in the mean time the delivery driver had rectified the problem by driving all the way back to my house a second time after he discovered the missing items back at the warehouse.

I have also collected directly, just after Christmas and even though I caught them slightly unexpected (I had emailed beforehand) they were very friendly and accommodating.


----------



## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Perhaps everyones a bit touchy cos of the horsemeat thing going on at the moment.Still no way to run a business though.


----------

