# Worming an MDR1 dog



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Hello

Bigby isn't MDR1 tested... yet. I am looking to get this done, but for now I am assuming he is affected, and he also most likely is.

His breeder said she gave him Drontal, but this doesn't cover Lungworm. He did have panacur when he was young but upset his tummy apparently.

Panacur already covers roundworm and tapeworm as Drontal does ( but Drontal also covers Whipworm and Hookworm )

So should I just give the Panacur? OR give the Drontal and then the Panacur sometime later? I don't want to overdose on wormers!

Io gets Milbemax, but this has had mixed reviews for a MDR1 dog so don't want to use this.

I could just ring the vets for advice  just always a little curious as to how much they know.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I'd use Panucur most of the time, with a dose of Drontal every 9-12 months; that should cover all the internal parasites. And check for an accurate weight before dosing. That's why I favour Panucur, as the dose is based on the exact weight of the dog rather than just falling within a range, as Drontal does.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Thanks - I can't go and get him weighed yet for an exact weight as he has kennel cough. Perhaps I should wait a few weeks until it has cleared up for an accurate weight... but then he will have to wait longer to be wormed :/ He has been wormed regularly though by his breeder - well the guidelines for how often a puppy should be wormed.


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

milbemycin is the active ingredient in Milbemax & possibly not a good idea for a MDR1 dog.

For regular worming there is nothing wrong with Drontal so I'd carry on with it. When it comes to Lungworm nothing on the market currently prevents infection at normal wormer doses (every 3 months) so it's a case of looking out for the signs & then treating it.

HTH


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

The smooth collie club has mentioned Advocate, they had a direct email from the people who make it and they said it was fine to be used to MDR1 affected dogs.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hanwombat said:


> Hello
> 
> Bigby isn't MDR1 tested... yet. I am looking to get this done, but for now I am assuming he is affected, and he also most likely is.
> 
> ...


Labolkin UK who is one of the Labs that do the MDR1 gene mutation test do have a list of medications, split into groups that cant be used,
can be used with caution, etc etc. If you haven't seen it before it may be some help. Its also not just wormers there are other meds too.
They do mention some brand names, but they also mention the generic, so for a brand that's not listed, you would have too look up the active ingredient in the medication itself and compere.

http://www.laboklin.co.uk/laboklin/showGeneticTest.jsp?testID=8032


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Labolkin UK who is one of the Labs that do the MDR1 gene mutation test do have a list of medications, split into groups that cant be used,
> can be used with caution, etc etc. If you haven't seen it before it may be some help. Its also not just wormers there are other meds too.
> They do mention some brand names, but they also mention the generic, so for a brand that's not listed, you would have too look up the active ingredient in the medication itself and compere.
> 
> http://www.laboklin.co.uk/laboklin/showGeneticTest.jsp?testID=8032


Thank you. I think I am going to use Advocate, it mentions on their site it can be used but has to be the correct amount of application permitted ( as well as on the link you have given me ).

Still such a worry haha!! Don't want anything to happen to him


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Or I may just drontal him this month ( for peace of mind ) and then decide whether to use panacur or advocate next time


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hanwombat said:


> Or I may just drontal him this month ( for peace of mind ) and then decide whether to use panacur or advocate next time


Ive always used Panacur on puppies, obviously no risk of MDR1 gene in my breed, but I have found they have always been OK, Ive actually had a couple of dogs, Laska and Nanuq who drontal has made sick soon after taking it, but both have been fine on the Panacur. Im pretty sure that Panacur does lung worm and giardia too, although for the actual treatment of both you have to do a course and treat differently to just worming.

If you don't want to chance the advocate or at the moment, Panacur I think would be a good choice to be honest. I used the paste with these as pups.
If I remember correctly you give half the adult dose for three consecutive days, but if you do use the paste check as its a good while since I used it for pups and may be wrong.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Ive always used Panacur on puppies, obviously no risk of MDR1 gene in my breed, but I have found they have always been OK, Ive actually had a couple of dogs, Laska and Nanuq who drontal has made sick soon after taking it, but both have been fine on the Panacur. Im pretty sure that Panacur does lung worm and giardia too, although for the actual treatment of both you have to do a course and treat differently to just worming.
> 
> If you don't want to chance the advocate or at the moment, Panacur I think would be a good choice to be honest. I used the paste with these as pups.
> If I remember correctly you give half the adult dose for three consecutive days, but if you do use the paste check as its a good while since I used it for pups and may be wrong.


 Thanks I think I may use Panacur for piece of mind currently. Burrowzig mentioned they do it by an exact weight? I can't take him to be weighed for a good few weeks due to kennel cough. So wondering possibly to use Drontal this time round and then Panacur next time?


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Panacur isn't very effective against Tapeworms, as I said I'd use Drontal for routine worming.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hanwombat said:


> Thanks I think I may use Panacur for piece of mind currently. Burrowzig mentioned they do it by an exact weight? I can't take him to be weighed for a good few weeks due to kennel cough. So wondering possibly to use Drontal this time round and then Panacur next time?


The info for Panacur paste data sheet is below.
http://www.msd-animal-health.co.uk/Products_Public/Panacur_Paste/090_Product_Datasheet.aspx

Drontal Plus dosage is here.
https://www.drontal.com/static/drontal/DrontalPlusFlavourDrontalPlusXLFlavour.pdf

Don't know if that's any help?


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I thought it was effective against most tapeworms?


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> The info for Panacur paste data sheet is below.
> http://www.msd-animal-health.co.uk/Products_Public/Panacur_Paste/090_Product_Datasheet.aspx
> 
> Drontal Plus dosage is here.
> ...


 Thank you SDH  I'll have a look after my lunch


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hanwombat said:


> Thank you SDH  I'll have a look after my lunch


Both sheets will tell you exactly what they do as well as dosage etc.


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> I thought it was effective against most tapeworms?


Only one species, not the common tapeworm as sled dogs data sheets will tell you.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Both sheets will tell you exactly what they do as well as dosage etc.


So according to these sheets panacur does all of what drontal does ( except for one less tapeworm ).. and with the addition of lungworms.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hanwombat said:


> I thought it was effective against most tapeworms?


The most common worm found in puppies is usually round worm, they can pick them up via the placenta and as larvae in the milk from mum.
The eggs are in the faeces of infected dogs, so they can also pick them up that way, ingesting through eating infected faeces or licking at the ground where infected faeces have been, as the eggs can exist in the environment for a good amount of time.

Tape worm cant be caught directly unlike round worm, it needs a host first, dogs get tapeworm from eating an infected host, not in the same way as round worms caught. If he ate say wild rabbit or raw he would be more at risk as an example. Panacur does do tape worm, but I think drontal does more species then panacur if that makes sense.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Thank you all for your help.
I think I am either doing to be Drontal.. with panacur perhaps every 9 months or so OR do what Burrowzig suggested.. so the other way around.

I need a good think


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hanwombat said:


> Thank you all for your help.
> I think I am either doing to be Drontal.. with panacur perhaps every 9 months or so OR do what Burrowzig suggested.. so the other way around.
> 
> I need a good think


At least you have all the info now and can decide on what you think is best.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> At least you have all the info now and can decide on what you think is best.


 Yes I do thank you. I think I will be a little uncomfortable using advocate and will just be worrying.


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> So according to these sheets panacur does all of what drontal does ( except for one less tapeworm ).. and with the addition of lungworms.


Yes...& no! At regular doses Panacur won't prevent or treat Lungworm, once Lungworm is diagnosed then Panacur will treat it if given for 3-7 consecutive days.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm so confused haha. So use Drontal but only Panacur every now and then as it won't be effective?


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

My personal preference is Drontal, it does the same job as Panacur but with added effectiveness against Tapeworms + it comes in tablet form (Panacur is sachets??).


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I believe Panacur is either syringe, granules or liquid form.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

sorry for not seeming too bright but what is MDR1


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Rott lover said:


> sorry for not seeming too bright but what is MDR1


 Multi-Drug Resistance Gene 

It affects some breeds of dog - mostly herding type breeds who can have adverse reactions to certain drugs.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

OHHHHH so like Oliver with the prednisone.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Thank you for that i had heard it but never knew what it meant


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hanwombat said:


> I believe Panacur is either syringe, granules or liquid form.


It is, they did do a treat type tablet for awhile but Im not sure that you can get it now, I did have that once for Kobi as a pup


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Rott lover said:


> sorry for not seeming too bright but what is MDR1


Its a gene mutation that means they cant pump out the drugs from the brain as usual via the blood brain barrier, it can cause neurological symptoms amongst others. its not only wormer but other drugs. There is a lot more detail on the link below, including breeds affected if you want a read. I did post the link further up but you may have missed it.

http://www.laboklin.co.uk/laboklin/showGeneticTest.jsp?testID=8032


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Thank you sled.As always the knower of all lol.You are such a vast wealth of knowledge.


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