# new you tube trainer.... am i missing something ? as i think hes terrible..



## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

There is a new (ish) you tube trainer online at present called Fenrir dog training, he i a bloke from the uk.

Watched a few of his videos and im a bit confused not by his methods....just well maybe i am.. some of the stuff he says is good but then he goes a wacks a prong collar on a dog and everyone is singing his praises.. also the recent video is what has now jumped to my attention.... not so much his methods but his actual training videos and what he is putting out in public for all owners to watch especially with the recent puppy influx. link to the video is below:






basically he has a collie x who has a severe leash reactivity and aggression. does some slip lead training with him for 15mins then before you know it hes within 2m of a dog and not even reacting...then he lets them off the lead together...

point im trying to make is that surely this sort of trainer is wrong... im questioning how much reactivity this dog actually has in the first place and when the dogs are close the collie sometimes aint even bothered by the other dog.

but what concerns me (maybe i'm overthinking it) is hes basically say do this training then all will be good straight away and can let your dog off with another one....

(again i am seriously doubting the dog was reactive in the first place not just interested in another dog)

am i missing something...????


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I LITERALLY just saw a FB ad for a puppy manners thing of his. To be fair it wasn't bad, but not anything special either, but he kept going on about leadership


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## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

Sarah H said:


> I LITERALLY just saw a FB ad for a puppy manners thing of his. To be fair it wasn't bad, but not anything special either, but he kept going on about leadership


Yeah like I said some one the stuff he says isn't that bad a pretty normal stuff and tbh when it comes to the leadership stuff people listen to it or they don't but when he comes to "apparent leash aggression and reactivity" just think it's a very dangerous game giving that sort of advice over such a short period of time...

Again I'm doubting how reactive the dog actually is in the first place... But some people may actually watch that do it then think it's ok to let the dog off lead...


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

After 5 mins of lead pops you can see the dog isn't keen on him. The dog is a fast learner and although didn't know what was being asked of him quickly realised that he didn't like the pain of the lead pop....
The weird thing is he could have got EXACTLY the same result WITHOUT the lead pop...and just by reinforcing and rewarding the following and disengaging from distractions. No need for correction. 
Then when he's close to the other dog you can see the collie is not happy, not aggressive but really not hugely keen on being that close to the dog. And then when allowed to meet he's not really sure about it, and free running he doesn't actually want to interact with the dog just play with the toys. I'm not saying it didn't work I'm saying you could get the same result without stressing the dog out and applying pain/discomfort. 
Other thing to think about is handlers. I can take a 'reactive' dog from an owner and get really good responses, but the dog has a totally different emotional state and different responses when with the owners.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I'm about 3 minutes in and my eye is twitching a little bit every time he says 'engagement'
"You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means." 

I shall be back....


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh god he makes the CM tscht noise!! :Hungover
Now my other eye is twitching.


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## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

Sarah H said:


> After 5 mins of lead pops you can see the dog isn't keen on him. The dog is a fast learner and although didn't know what was being asked of him quickly realised that he didn't like the pain of the lead pop....
> The weird thing is he could have got EXACTLY the same result WITHOUT the lead pop...and just by reinforcing and rewarding the following and disengaging from distractions. No need for correction.
> Then when he's close to the other dog you can see the collie is not happy, not aggressive but really not hugely keen on being that close to the dog. And then when allowed to meet he's not really sure about it, and free running he doesn't actually want to interact with the dog just play with the toys. I'm not saying it didn't work I'm saying you could get the same result without stressing the dog out and applying pain/discomfort.
> Other thing to think about is handlers. I can take a 'reactive' dog from an owner and get really good responses, but the dog has a totally different emotional state and different responses when with the owners.


Ok thank you not just me losing my mind then...

I honestly will admit I gave Biff one "leash pop" after watching a few videos in his early days... And the look he gave me I would never do it again... I learnt from it and moved on.... Yeah he was engaged with me afterwards prob sh*t scared of what I was gonna do next. Said to myself never ever again.

I just worries me the owners will watch this and take a clip then let their really reactive dog now a shutdown dog off the lead and meet another dog...


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## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> Oh god he makes the CM tscht noise!! :Hungover
> Now my other eye is twitching.


Painful isn't it... I made a few comments on the you tube chat.. He usually responds quite a bit.. not sure he will to mine though...

Also I don't like right at the very start he refers to it

As .... A .... "Fun case"...

And also love the fact his role model dog and his owner .. has a permanent treat in the hand at the start...


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Okay... Yeah... It's pretty average training. A couple leash pops, a few rewards, biddable dog, nothing complicated really. Is it going to get the job done with most dogs? Probably. He'll have enough success to feel like he knows what he's doing and gain a following. More power to him.

I think most pet dogs really aren't as complicated as their owners make them and he's a good example of an average trainer that can get results. As @Sarah H said, most of us can grab the leash and have an instant effect just from the novelty factor and not having any history with that dog.
And yes, I agree, I doubt he's as reactive as advertised. He sure was happily snarfing up treats and playing tug with a total stranger. Every truly reactive dog I've known is not at all interested in treats in the presence of their trigger. But what do I know.

The engagement part really bugged me.
Keeping an eye on the weird guy who keep jerking my leash is not engagement. Yes, he's paying attention, but not because he's engaged, he's trying to figure out how to avoid getting corrected. That's not the same thing as being engaged.
Engagement is always offered, not forced. It's a partnership and shared enjoyment in each others company.

But... in the spirit of shut up and train, I shall shut up now and train my dog


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

The guy's far too full of himself for my liking.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Ha ha! I had that video up on youtube and there was a suggested video on the side, ecollar trainer gets tagged (bitten) by a dobie in a muzzle. I need to take some kindness pills cause I laughed a little too hard. The dog reacted, trainer dings him with the ecollar, dog comes right at him and pinches the snot out of his butt through the muzzle. Must have hurt cause the trainer actually ran a few steps from the dog. OMG that was too funny!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Ragnar&Biffy said:


> who has a severe leash reactivity and aggression


yeah, not seeing that at all! As the owner of a dog with severe leash reactivity and aggression you could stuff every treat under the sun at him, show him all the best toys and 'pop' the lead til you yanked his head off...it wouldnt stop him barking and spinning like a maniac when he sees another dog!! 
Best thing Ive found that works is just to walk off calmly and reassure him quietly that things are ok. If I let him greet another dog like that guy did he would go straight for a bite.

Maybe he doesnt actually know what reactivity and aggression looks like!!?:Hilarious

(TBF though Alfie might be well behaved in one circumstance....he is extremely nervous and his behaviour is mostly fear driven so if a strange dude grabbed him and started yanking him about he might just shut down totally and look 'well behaved').


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I didn't watch it with the sound on, but I can imagine his stupid noises. He just comes across as a macho bloke who has had some success with intimidating and scaring dogs into compliance, with no real knowledge on training.
That collie is not 'reactive'. I expect he is a bit 'herding instinct gone wrong' at times, but there is no way he is a truly reactive dog. As @catz4m8z says maybe he hasn't actually seen a truly aggressive dog so thinks a snarky collie or a gobby shepherd is just that?


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

He seems to rely a lot on lead pressure and lead corrections. I agree I doubt the collie was really reactive at all. 
Watched a couple of others. His longline slip lead made me cringe! And the worst jumping up he’d ever seen one...


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## TheCAD21 (Jul 15, 2017)

As a novice it’s hard for me personally to know what’s good or bad advice sometimes.

Is there specific dog channels, trainers, people etc. that are recommended?

Just want to do all the research I can before I get a dog/puppy.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

TheCAD21 said:


> As a novice it's hard for me personally to know what's good or bad advice sometimes.
> 
> Is there specific dog channels, trainers, people etc. that are recommended?
> 
> Just want to do all the research I can before I get a dog/puppy.


I think kikopup on youtube probably has the some of the best explanations and demos and she covers just about everything. 
I also really like domesticated manners but he's not near as prolific.

In general try to think past that something seems to miraculously work and instead think in terms of *why* is this working and does that align with your ultimate goals for you and your dog.

Sometimes you have to watch more and listen less. 
In the video in the OP, he says the dog is learning that good things happens when the dog listens to the handler. But if you watch the dog, he's not acting like a dog being rewarded. The reward becomes an indicator that he's not going to be corrected. Instead, the dog is paying attention because the guy keeps correcting him with the leash. So the dog is watching to see what he needs to do to avoid the discomfort of the correction. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. I don't think the dog is that upset by the corrections, he doesn't like them, but it's more of an annoyance/novelty than anything. And he clearly does like the treats and toys, but I'm skeptical that the dog is associating treats and toys with specific behavior. He's just learning that while treats and toys happen, he's not being corrected. This almost always translates in to a dog who ends up not finding treats and toys particularly motivating. The reward actually loses value. Now you've just made it harder to motivate your dog with rewards.

So when you start looking down the line in your long-term relationship with the dog, is this really how you want to set things up? Is it going to be useful long-term?

In general, I want my dogs to pay attention to me because we have a long history of reinforcement and good things happening through me. One of the very first things I teach a dog is their name, and I teach it to be the most wonderful, rewarding, awesome sound they can hear with a long, reliable history of wonderful things happening any time they hear their name.
This translates in to creating a cue that serves for all sorts of things, not the least of which is interrupting behavior. Dog about to snarf up some cat shit? Penny! Dog comes running. Dog staring too long at the other dog? Bates! Immediate eye contact and the stare-off thwarted.

Along with teaching their name, I spend a lot of time building even more value for food and play rewards. I've just realized this is something I've glossed over in my threads about Penny, but it's such an important piece. I've spent a lot of training time just teaching her not only how to follow a lure, but to do so with enthusiasm, really getting her to push in to that lure and really want it.

Again this is where something like a collar correction wouldn't work for me, because corrections by nature dampen enthusiasm - that's why they work. I depend on the dog's enthusiasm and drive to motivate them, and dampening that enthusiasm is completely counterproductive to me.


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## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

just had a reply from the bloke from my you tube comments: I basically asked if the dog was even aggressive / reactive i the first place....

_*Hey Ben, that is a GREAT question/comment. When I watched back the finished edit I said to my team I wish I'd have explained that exact thing better. So let me explain here, so the leash reactivity was very intense and that made it LOOK like severe aggression, which is very common from an untrained eye, what was actually happening was a huge lack of guidance and direction stemming from a lack of leadership. The owners them became very fearful of seeing other dogs, Jack fed of that and wanted to step in as they weren't taking control in his eyes, and that triggered the reactivity, that again LOOKED like aggression, hence why in the video I say 'apparently', so all I've done here is come in and provided that guidance and direction, and with Jack being extremely reactive but not inherently with true aggression allowed this transformation to happen so quickly. Now, that being said with the many of the true aggression cases I've worked with I follow the same principle, and yes I do achieve the same results very quickly, I wouldn't be so quick to let them off lead together but it doesn't stop it being the case. Also in my experience 95/100 aggression cases are actually leash reactivity cases, but the dogs never had chance to be with other dogs due to the leash reactivity scaring the owners into thinking its aggression. Anyway, I hope that explains that better, the lesson I learnt is to ensure we have better 'before' videos to help explain these things better, problem is I'm so busy and so confident with these cases that when the dogs come and throw on my training vest and dive straight in as I can work things out on the fly and the cameras follow that. Anyway, back to work for me so have a great day Ben*_

just thought would share ...


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

huh...so, what? The dog gets massively overexcitable on lead and goes nuts and the owners panic and freak out thinking their dog is super aggressive. This leads the dog to pick up on the owners fear and try and 'protect' them from he perceived threat? (Im probably reading that all wrong though!!LOL:Shy).


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## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

Sarah H said:


> I didn't watch it with the sound on, but I can imagine his stupid noises. He just comes across as a macho bloke who has had some success with intimidating and scaring dogs into compliance, with no real knowledge on training.
> That collie is not 'reactive'. I expect he is a bit 'herding instinct gone wrong' at times, but there is no way he is a truly reactive dog. As @catz4m8z says maybe he hasn't actually seen a truly aggressive dog so thinks a snarky collie or a gobby shepherd is just that?


yeah agree... but i get its the typical you tube trainer trying to build a presence... but its scary by some off the other owers comments that have been put on his you tube... one was like ...

"oh my god this is amazing, my dog is really reactive going to try this later!" <<< this is what scares me


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Denise Fenzi just posted this on instagram and I think it's relevant here, how to pick a dog trainer:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CMpo_0HBTnQ/

For the OP, the salient point would be, "does it look like the trainer and the owner against the dog?" And in this video, if you watch without the sound on, it kind of does doesn't it? Not massively so, but there is a marked change in the dog's overall demeanor after the 3rd pop. He ever so slightly lowers his head and is carrying himself more carefully, just very slightly more stiff.

Here's the thing. You can get your dog's attention reliably, without losing any of his enthusiasm, and arguably, that's what you want. Just as much enthusiasm and zest for everything going on, but while also being able to get and keep the dog's attention.


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## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

oh someone just asked for his qualifications as they look up to him... his answer.....

(sorry but this guy is bugging me)

Fenrir Canine Training
13 hours ago
*I have multiple advanced diplomas in canine behaviour, training, psychology etc, and all of them were useless, as was the masters degree I started, nothing more than positive only propaganda courses. So I'm proud to say all of my methodology and the behaviour intervention and modification programmes I utilise and implement are self taught and through studying under other world class balanced practitioners. Hope this helps *


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Just as we thought then, he doesn't actually understand why what he is doing is working, but it seems to get the results on the surface so of course he must be a great dog trainer!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> Just as we thought then, he doesn't actually understand why what he is doing is working, but it seems to get the results on the surface so of course he must be a great dog trainer!


Yep. It works, and he gets results so it's all good right?

Until... he gets a dog who redirects. Or needs to actually teach a behavior instead of shutting down a behavior. 
It's easy to get a dog to stop doing something. It's a lot harder to get a dog to *do* something instead. I mean, how hard is it to teach a really snappy 'let's go' with some treats and energy? It's not, but notice he doesn't (can't?) even do that, and feels he needs the leash pops.

I can get a whiplash turn from my dogs just saying their name, no leash attached. How's he going to 'communicate' when there's no leash?


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## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> Yep. It works, and he gets results so it's all good right?
> 
> Until... he gets a dog who redirects. Or needs to actually teach a behavior instead of shutting down a behavior.
> It's easy to get a dog to stop doing something. It's a lot harder to get a dog to *do* something instead. I mean, how hard is it to teach a really snappy 'let's go' with some treats and energy? It's not, but notice he doesn't (can't?) even do that, and feels he needs the leash pops.
> ...


Because he has his LEADERSHIP come on pay attention


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Ragnar&Biffy said:


> Because he has his LEADERSHIP come on pay attention


Yes, leadership and engagement are two words he and I have very different views on....


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## tyg'smum (Aug 14, 2018)

I would not let that man within a million miles of Lily.


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## tyg'smum (Aug 14, 2018)

O2.0 said:


> Yes, leadership and engagement are two words he and I have very different views on....


I'm none too sure that he understands "communication", either.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Ragnar&Biffy said:


> oh someone just asked for his qualifications as they look up to him... his answer.....
> 
> (sorry but this guy is bugging me)
> 
> ...


So basically he went into it with one view. The science and actual facts didn't align with his view so he criticises it as 'propaganda' and says it's useless. Instead of taking a step back and thinking maybe his views might be the ones that are wrong and outdated here. 
Definitely not someone I would want training my dog. Inability to change ones views in light of actual evidence is not a good trait in the world of dogs (or any animals I think!). IMO


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Sorry. Someone has to say this: D#[email protected]


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> Sorry. Someone has to say this: D#[email protected]


Sadly he's not that bad compared to what's out there


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

This is the one I laughed way too hard at:





The dog figured out immediately who was zapping him and let him know exactly how he felt about it :Hilarious The guy running away from him and tossing the remote down just made me laugh way too much. Idiot. 
A+ to the dog. 

Steve White's rules of punishment, #5: _The punishment must be associated with the behavior, but not with the trainer. Otherwise, the trainer becomes part of the punishment and the animal starts fearing and disliking the trainer._
I believe we violated this one


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> Sadly he's not that bad compared to what's out there


That might have been based on the obviously high opinion he has of himself as much as his training methods.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> This is the one I laughed way too hard at:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This guy confuses me. If you watch the whole thing he kind of actually talks sense about arousal levels etc, but seems intent on using punishment with a dog who clearly doesn't take it well :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> This guy confuses me. If you watch the whole thing he kind of actually talks sense about arousal levels etc, but seems intent on using punishment with a dog who clearly doesn't take it well :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


He's all over youtube which is why I didn't mind linking him. He is right about a lot of things, he's a rabbit hole I got sucked in to yesterday. But he's still stuck in the "there has to be punishment" mentality which I think is clouding his judgement and ability to improve.

Like, dude, if you're routinely getting bitten, that's not a good thing. 
He has a lot of videos of him getting bitten and I think it's supposed to show how difficult the dogs are that he works with. For me it just shows bad training. There's a black GSD that he claims is 'truly dominant' and how this is very rare. The dog is just head shy but also very confident in other areas. And yes, he is very much saying "don't touch me" and the dog knows he doesn't have to let anyone touch him. Okay, so turn that in to a trust-building exercise, get the dog to *trust* you to reach for his face/head and go from there. He's a smart dog who's already generally confident, I don't think it would take that long to build trust. But instead this guy puts a catch pole on the dog and forces him in to a confrontation that really erodes any possibility of building trust. That one pissed me off.

For anyone wanting alternative to leash pops:
I was just out with Penny thinking about the "tools" I use with her when out walking. 
1. She knows her name. Her name is a cue to look at me and in most cases come to me. 
2. Default check-in. This is where the dog checks in with you without any cues on your part. It just shows that they're aware of your existence and paying attention. Always acknowledge and reward a check-in and you will get more and more of them. 
3. A cue for change of direction - this one is awesome for reactivity and creating distance between you and the trigger. For Penny the cue is "this way" and that means I'm going in a different direction, come with me. 
4. Build drive for whatever your rewards are going to be. Right now my main reward for Penny is food. Initially she couldn't take food in a lot of contexts, she was just too distracted, worried, or generally aroused by the environment. I worked a lot of teaching her to not only take treats but want treats even when aroused or distracted.

I've noticed a lot of the crank and yank trainers are just not very good at building drive, particularly not with dogs who aren't already high drive dogs. If you aren't good at building value for rewards, then it stands to reason that your go-to tool is going to be a leash pop, because you simply don't know how to make "this way" as effective.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

O2.0 said:


> Like, dude, if you're routinely getting bitten, that's not a good thing.


I couldnt believe that guy was just out there in his tshirt getting snapped at by a freakin' huge dog!! Kinda scary. He kinda felt like he was pushing things too far which makes sense from a Youtube video pov but surely not from a dog training pov??

One thing Im really glad of is that Alfie doesnt redirect onto people. He is a nutter around other dogs and Ive had to break up fights with him and Adam before but at no point does he turn those teeth onto me!


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

catz4m8z said:


> I couldnt believe that guy was just out there in his tshirt getting snapped at by a freakin' huge dog!! Kinda scary. He kinda felt like he was pushing things too far which makes sense from a Youtube video pov but surely not from a dog training pov??


I kind of think you've hit the nail on the head with this guy. He knows the dog is going to get wayyy too high and potentially redirect onto him, and he knows how to prevent that, but to get views he needs to show how bad the dog is so he can show how well his training is when the dog seems 'fixed' at the end.


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## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

oh my good he has just released a new video (fenrir) and his title of the video is " the single best way to tire out your dog" A TIRED DOG IS A GOOD DOG"

im hoping again it is just a title to draw people in but as we know a tired dog is not always a good dog..... a good dog is a loved, enriched dog.

i really hoping when i watch this in a min that he doesnt do what i think hes gonna do......






ok....3 mins in and i will take a step back and wont jump to conclusions again.... so far quite good

.... ok watched it... cant complain at all really... he actually seems more relaxed in this video and not so much trying to impress viewers. enjoyed watching it to be honest.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Why not chat about all the awesome trainers out there that we would like to see more of, instead of talking about those that you (general you) don't like?

I've seen this chap on my newsfeed for a while now and just scrolled on past because I didn't like what I saw...posting his videos here just gives him more views...so you're actually promoting him here lol


#shutupandtrain


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## Ragnar&Biffy (Sep 28, 2019)

StormyThai said:


> Why not chat about all the awesome trainers out there that we would like to see more of, instead of talking about those that you (general you) don't like?
> 
> I've seen this chap on my newsfeed for a while now and just scrolled on past because I didn't like what I saw...posting his videos here just gives him more views...so you're actually promoting him here lol
> 
> #shutupandtrain


because its a forum and a place to discuss things.

And also like i siad i felt this video was actually enjoyable and why would i not hold my hands up and say oops maybe this one isnt that bad and actually promotes the fact how to add mental stimulation into a game of fetch rather than just making them run around for ages.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

My post was in general...lots of people prefer to moan about trainers instead of talking about the great ones.
The only reason I commented was to show that by talking about them you are actually promoting them...Honestly I could not care any less about what other trainers are doing if I don't like what I see when they are training a dog.

As you rightly pointed out to me...this is a forum, where I am allowed to voice my opinion on something just as anyone else is


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Ragnar&Biffy said:


> because its a forum and a place to discuss things.
> 
> And also like i siad i felt this video was actually enjoyable and why would i not hold my hands up and say oops maybe this one isnt that bad and actually promotes the fact how to add mental stimulation into a game of fetch rather than just making them run around for ages.


You're right, it's not that bad  
But notice that his 'bread and butter' seems to be what it sometimes called "dead dog behavior." It's a morbid descriptor but basically what it describes is behavior a dead dog can do - a dead dog can not chase a toy when thrown. Stays are dead dog behaviors.

Absolutely nothing wrong with dead dog behaviors, and they are of course a necessary and valid part of basic dog training. But they're really not that complicated to teach and being able to teach a dog to stay doesn't tell me much about your abilities as a trainer. 
Trick training gets pooh pooed as frivolous, but it's no where near as easy to teach a dog to weave between your legs for example, as it is to teach a dog to "lay here and don't move." 
I'm not a professional dog trainer, but today on our walk, we practiced hand touch, heeling - competition style, sans leash, head up, bouncy step, place between my feet, and walking with me in that position, turning and backing up, we're also doing tree climbing on cue because my dog is a weirdo who likes to climb trees, might as well put a cue on that too. 
We came home and did some practice putting front legs on a raised platform which is a wonderful building block to all sorts of useful behaviors, and helps the dog pay attention to where their feet are.

Also at the end when he lies down to play with his toy by himself, that's not necessarily a good thing. I mean, it depends on what you want I guess. For me, if I'm using toys as rewards, I want the dog to thing that playing *with* me trumps playing by themselves. That's not to say my dogs don't take a chew and go chew it by themselves, but generally if they grab a toy, they're bringing it to me to make me do something with it because for them, toys are more fun if I'm involved. I want that. It can also be a PITA though so I understand not everyone wants that.

FWIW my meth puppy is still not tired, she's tried harassing the old dog, when that didn't work, she killed most of her toys, played with one of the teens, scavenged for crumbs in the kitchen, chewed her antler for a bit, and has now parked herself at the window and is boofing at passing shadows. But that's okay with me. I don't walk her so that she'll come home and plonk down and not move. I walk her because it's good for both of us and we enjoy it. She's a young dog and I expect young dogs to be busy and full of energy and mischief. She'll be an old dog soon enough and I will miss her mischief.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> You're right, it's not that bad
> But notice that his 'bread and butter' seems to be what it sometimes called "dead dog behavior." It's a morbid descriptor but basically what it describes is behavior a dead dog can do - a dead dog can not chase a toy when thrown. Stays are dead dog behaviors.
> 
> Absolutely nothing wrong with dead dog behaviors, and they are of course a necessary and valid part of basic dog training. But they're really not that complicated to teach and being able to teach a dog to stay doesn't tell me much about your abilities as a trainer.
> ...


Awwww love how you are finding Penny is a busy dog in the home. I find this hard to describe to people but I don't think they always get it that terriers, and toy dogs don't always have a sleep while left if some one is about especially. It's a bit of a culture shock that the sighthound among us after breakfast and if she's on early morning walks or not likes a snooze in the morning where she's not moving really for a couple of hours!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

lullabydream said:


> Awwww love how you are finding Penny is a busy dog in the home. I find this hard to describe to people but I don't think they always get it that terriers, and toy dogs don't always have a sleep while left if some one is about especially. It's a bit of a culture shock that the sighthound among us after breakfast and if she's on early morning walks or not likes a snooze in the morning where she's not moving really for a couple of hours!


She loves a good snuggly nap, but she is mainly a busy, busy dog. I don't mind at all, Bates was a busy dog in his time too. If I needed him to lie down and chill he would, and I can do the same with Penny, but for the most part, they stay busy, but so do I so it's all good


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

I don't like him. Starting with his haircut.


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