# Kitten pulling carpet when needing to pee



## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

Hello,

I'm new here but hoping for some advice. I've already read the posts on cats weeing outside the litter tray but I'm not sure it applies here and I've done practically everything in there already. I adopted 2 kittens about 5 weeks ago and have had a couple of issues with them trying to wee outside the tray but nothing major. 

A few days ago one started pulling the carpet behind the TV, I picked her up and put her in the tray and she had a wee. Then since then she has started pulling the carpet more, in different places. She never pulls it and wees on the carpet, she just goes from one place to another and pulls, then I get anxious about it and put her in the tray and she wees. So far I've lasted with her doing it in 4 different places before I've put her in the tray. It's not every time she needs a wee, it's perhaps once every other day. I'm not sure if I should be leaving her to make her own way there when she's pulling the carpet, given she's not weeing on it, or not?

Thanks


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi @jemfiddlesticks and welcome 

There could be two different things going on, (1) some litter tray issues, and (2) scratching the carpet as a means of scent marking (they have scent glands in their paws between their pads).

However, I am interested that when you place the kitten in the tray after she has scratched the carpet she has a wee immediately. This would suggest the scratching might well be toileting behaviour. i.e. litter tray avoidance.

How many trays do you provide? There should be a minimum of 3 trays between two kittens, but I had 4 trays for my two kittens and they were all used. Cats often like to have some trays for peeing and some for pooing.

The trays should be spread around the house, not grouped together, so there are at least 3 different toilet areas. They should be tucked away so the kittens have privacy, not in areas of high 'traffic'. Perhaps you could put trays in a couple of places where kitty has been scratching the carpet to see if she likes to use a tray there.

If you have covered trays make sure you remove the door flaps permanently. Cats do not like being completely enclosed when they toilet, they don't feel safe if they can't see out. Plus, litter is dusty so to be shut in when digging or burying is bad for their lungs.

What type of litter do you provide? A litter that is as near to sand in texture is best. Clumping litter is nicer for cats to use than non-clumping but you must not use clumping CLAY litter for kittens in case they try eating it (as some do) as it could cause a blocked bowel requiring surgery.

A clumping litter such as Cats Best Oko Plus will be OK for kittens, and is well liked. Scoop poo a.s.a.p.
after deposited and scoop wee at least twice a day.

Non-clumping litters, especially cheap supermarket varieties such as Tesco Value get very smelly after being peed in a couple of times. So the whole tray needs emptying out every day, trays washed and fresh litter used. It is wasteful, far less economical than using a clumping litter like Cats Best Oko..

In case it is a scratching/scent marking issue, are you providing lots of scratch pads, mats and posts? Corrugated cardboard pads are very popular and cheap enough to have several in every room, which is important.. Sisal covered posts are also popular. Look at Zooplus UK website for value for money cardboard pads.

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/scratching_posts/scratching_pads/scratching_mat/101907

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/scratching_posts/scratching_pads/scratching_mat/280459

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/scratching_posts/cardboard_cat_furniture/568888?rrec=true


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

Hi chillminx, thanks for your reply. 

She has started to scratch more things in the last week too, she's been pulling the sofa all the time which she's never done before. 

They have 2 trays because they only go in a few rooms. I've just moved house (I got them after the move) and the bedrooms are full of boxes so at the moment I keep them downstairs. When they go upstairs I'll add an extra tray in the bathroom. Both trays are in the dining room but it's 6m long and they are at either end. At night I shut them in the dining room otherwise I can't set my burglar alarm. I might move one into the corner in the kitchen and see if that makes a difference, it's more out of the way than where they are now. 

They are both open trays and I'm using wood pellet litter, not the cheap supermarket kind, it's one from Pets at Home. I tried to transition on to a cheaper one and they stopped wanting to go in the tray. I also tried them on a clumping one and they didn't like that either. At the time they had diarrhoea from giardia infection so I was reluctant to keep changing things. 

I scoop both wee and poo asap, I leave wee a little longer because otherwise the litter is wet and hard to scoop. 

I've got cardboard pads in both rooms they spend any time in and I've got a cat tree with 4 posts for them to scratch. I'm about to get them another tree too because they have already torn this one to shreds!

My dad comes rounds to feed them and play with them for an hour or so every day when I'm at work and she never does it when he's here. She just reserves it for me!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

If she's scratching sofa etc then it is scent marking and you will need to train her to use the scratch posts and mats instead of the furniture and carpets. Rub all posts and pads with powdered cat nip and when you see her go to scratch the sofa or carpet etc then calmly lift her up, place her in front of a scratch post or mat and gently paddle her paws up and down mimicking the movements she makes herself.

Remember this is a training exercise so do not tell her off, and once she starts using the places you want her to use give her praise. Keep the training going for about a month, with reminders after that if required. It will work, I promise. It never fails if one is consistent and patient.

With wood pellet the litter needs emptying out every day and new litter put in, or it gets very smelly and cats hate using it.. Or use the correct sieve tray for wood pellet litter, then you can shake the wet litter through to the bottom tray and scoop the poop.

http://www.brit-pet.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BP.


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

That's exactly what I've been doing. I just pick her up and move her and then make a fuss of her when she uses the post instead. I bought some cat nip spray today so I'll have a go with that tomorrow to encourage her. Is powder better than spray?

I'm currently cleaning it every other day and I've got a scoop where the sawdust falls through the gaps but the pellets don't. I'll up it to every day and see if it helps. When she is scratching the carpet do you think I should pick her up and put her in the tray in case? Or wait and see what happens but be on alert in case she assumes the squat position? She never does it in the morning, it's always the first wee when I get home from work. 

Thanks!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Aha, it sounds like you already have the correct sieve tray if the sawdust falls through the gaps - well done! 

I think rubbing with powdered cat nip lasts longer than the spray, as it is stronger smelling.

Is she scratching the carpet in the same place every time now? If so I would put a tray in the exact spot and see if she will use that of her own accord. If it is always the first wee when you get home then I'd put her into the tray just in case. If she jumps straight out without doing anything you'll know she doesn't need a wee.


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

One of them weed next to the tray this morning instead of in it! I suspect it wasn't the one who has been scratching the carpet though. They usually both wee in the same tray at the same time but today because one was in there pooping the other just weed on the floor next to the tray. 

The one that scratches the carpet does it in 3 places and none of them are suitable locations for a tray, for example behind the TV where there would be no space. I'll see if it's any better now I've relocated one of the trays to the kitchen. 

Thanks for your help, I'll let you know how I get on!


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

Rather than create a new thread I thought it would be better to resurrect this one. 

This stopped after I posted last time but is now happening again, with the same kitten. It's no longer just once a day, it's a lot and almost every time she will use the litter tray if I put her in. She wanders round in it for a bit, sometimes she gets out of one but if I put her in the other one then she will then go. I'm trying to work out if it's cystitis or behavioural?

To add some more detail, in the last two weeks I've changed a couple of things. They were just eating James Wellbeloved wet and dry but I've started also giving them Bozita. 

One of them (not the one that I'm having the issue with) jumps on the kitchen worktop if she's allowed in there for more than 10 seconds. So now unless I'm in there they are shut out of the kitchen, which is where their second litter tray is. They never used to go in there or in that tray unless I was in there anyway but could this be stressing her out?

If it carries on tomorrow then I'll take her to the vet on Monday and get her checked out. In the meantime I've stopped their dry food and I'm adding water to the wet.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi, hard to tell if its behavioural or a problem with cystitis. It is possible she's upset about being shut away from the second litter tray. Can you place it outside the kitchen door when they are shut out of the kitchen?

How old are the kittens now? Have they been spayed/neutered yet? If they're over 4 months old and not yet done, it could be your girl is scent-marking as she approaches (or reaches) sexual maturity.

I think you're right to stop the dry food and just feed wet with added water to see if that helps. I would say a cat who has a history of bladder isues as this little one has is always better on 100% wet food. Sometimes removal of all dry food from the diet can be enough in itself to solve litter tray problems.

Please let us know how things go.


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

Yes, perhaps I could try moving the kitchen tray. Although during the day when I'm at work, and at night, they have never been allowed in the kitchen anyway. The only new part is that they can't go in even when I'm here. 

They are about 7 months now and have been neutered already. I got them from a rescue and they neuter as soon as they weigh 1kg!

Do you have any advice for when she is pulling the carpet behind the TV? At the moment I try to reach her to pick her up and put her in the tray but she's started running off. I don't shout at her when I pick her up or do anything to scare her. I'm not sure if I'd be better just ignoring her doing it unless I think she's actually going to wee? When she did it just I went and pottered around in one of the rooms with a tray and she came in and went on her own.


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

These are the little terrors!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Aww they are very cute! Lovely 

Does she pull at the carpet immediately before she pees? 

As she keeps returning to the same spot behind the TV I wonder if she is attracted to the odour of urine there? Have you cleaned the carpet, rolled it back and cleaned the underlay and the floor boards with enzymatic cleaner? It is hard to get rid of the smell of urine from underlay and you may need to cut out the soiled part and put newspaper under the carpet in that spot. 

If there is no room behind the TV for even a small litter tray I would try and block the space e.g. with a box or something to prevent her getting in there. I am not saying she won't find somewhere else to soil, but at least it might be somewhere easier to put a tray or to get at to keep clean.

I think I would give the kitties some extra trays at present so there are always 3 trays available for them whether you are there or not. Spread them about. It just may help to remind her. Can you remind me - are you using a clumping granule litter?


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

Thank you for the advice. 

She's never actually weed behind the TV. It took me a while to put the two together because I thought she was just pulling the carpet but it's too much of a coincidence now that she wees in the tray afterwards every time. There is definitely no cat wee smell round there either. I might give the carpet a spray with the enzyme spray I've got anyway and see if that makes a difference. 

They have a third tray upstairs but again they can't access it when I'm not there. I live on my own so set my burglar alarm when I'm out and especially at night so they can't really roam. I'll move one downstairs so they at least have two at all times. They seem to only go when I'm there anyway!

I've been using Cats Best Oko Plus for the last few months. It tracks EVERYWHERE but it's much easier to deal with than the wood pellet that I was using.


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## Quartermass (Nov 25, 2016)

Sorry to jump into your thread but I've a somewhat similar issue and I've ordered a UV torch on Amazon, it's not expensive and I've every expectation that it'll reveal anywhere my little guy has been relieving himself.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Quartermass said:


> Sorry to jump into your thread but I've a somewhat similar issue and I've ordered a UV torch on Amazon, it's not expensive and I've every expectation that it'll reveal anywhere my little guy has been relieving himself.


Sorry to rain on your parade but those UV torches are not always reliable, inasmuch as they often show up stains/marks of things that are not urine. Though they may show urine stains too. But I gave up with mine.


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## Quartermass (Nov 25, 2016)

The carpet I'm most concerned about is less than a year old in a room I don't often use so I think it'll do the treat there. Other carpets... well I do wash them at least once a year so hopefully it'll show up Johnny's guilty little puddles and not anything else.... but yes if there was a teenagers room there might be some false positives!


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

So since Saturday I've been paying closer attention to what Luna is doing and it's a bit odd! I've moved the other downstairs litter tray into the dining room so when the kitchen door is shut she still has access to two trays downstairs. This seems to have improved things slightly. However what I have noticed is that if she pulls the carpet in the living room, then I go and stand in the dining room (with the trays) then she just follows me in and does her wee. Does this suggest it's behavioural?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Pulling at the carpet - is this like a burying movement? If so then she is trying to cover up the smell of urine on the carpet.


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

She's definitely not weeing on the carpet though and I'm 95% sure she never has. She pulls at the carpet, today she did it on the stairs, I walked to the room with the trays and she immediately got in and had a wee. She didn't wee on the stairs. That's what I mean about it being odd!


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

Sorry, I realised maybe I wasn't clear. She follows me into the room and then wees in the litter tray. Every time. She doesn't wee on the carpet but pulling it is like the signal that she needs a wee. If I then go and stand next to the litter trays then she runs in, gets in the tray and wees.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I see what you mean....it sounds like one of Luna's little idiosyncracies. Is the carpet scratching always followed immediately by a trip to the litter tray every time, or only if you walk to the tray and she follows you there?


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

Tonight she's been pulling the carpet a lot but not going in the tray when I'm in there or when I put her in but I'm sure she's wanted to go. She has now eventually been but I think perhaps I should take her to the vet to rule out anything else?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I think a trip to the vet is a good idea.


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

I'm no cat expert, but from reading this thread it sounds like perhaps she likes you to be with her when she wees (some sort of security thing perhaps?), and perhaps the pulling at the carpet has become her way of asking you to accompany her to the litter box. 

I agree that a trip to the vet is probably in order to rule out anything physical though!


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

Ok so a little update. We just went to the vet and the vet said she didn't think it was cystitis. She's suggested getting some Feliway spray and spraying it where she's been pulling the carpet and taking in a urine sample for them to check. 

She also said that Luna's anal glands were very full. Absolutely mortifyingly as it's my cat but also not as it's not my fault at all, when the vet emptied the glands it sprayed ALL OVER HER FACE. And I mean eyes, nose, mouth. All over her face. Anyway, she said that she can't see that being what is causing the carpet pulling but I guess I'll see in the next couple of days.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Oh no, poor vet!! :Arghh 

The anal glands empty during defecation and the stool needs to be firm to exert the right amount of pressure in the rectum to empty the glands. On the other hand if she has been constipated then that can also be a reason for anal glands not to empty. I am wondering if is because she has discomfort in her bowel that she is scratching at the carpet. That does ring a bell with me. 

What are her stools like at present?

Is she on a 100% wet food diet now?


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

I had actually been reading about blocked glands a couple of days ago because I thought that might be an issue. I'd found a couple of times that my clothes smelt after I picked her up. She hasn't suffered with constipation though, her stools are just normal. Firm, neither too hard or too soft. 

They are both now 100% wet food.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

If the anal glands were full and the vet had to empty them then it means they are not emptying every time she defecates, which could be because there is not enough pressure in the rectum to cause the glands to empty.

Full anal glands can be uncomfortable for the cat, or cause an itchy bottom. Have you ever seen her scooting her bottom along the floor? They often do this after they poo if their anal glands are not emptying. Impacted anal glands can become imfected.

A wet food diet should help make her stools bulkier, but you may need to try her with a high fibre diet to make the stools more bulky to increase the pressure in the rectum when she poos.

You could add a little pumpkin to her food, just a small amount to start with - less than half a teaspoonful. Libby's make canned pumpkin. Make sure you use the pure stuff that has no flavourings added.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Libbys-100...0626790&sr=8-1&keywords=libby's+pumpkin+puree

Or you could use Peridale granules which are used for anal sac management (not just for treating constipation). I have used them for one of my previous senior cats in the past to bulk up his stools.

https://www.petdrugsonline.co.uk/ca...ts/digestion-and-probiotics/peridale-granules


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

I have been mulling it over today as I've been working from home and I think it's a litter tray set up issue. She scratched the carpet even when she needed a poo before, so it's not to do with weeing it's more to do with using the trays in general.

I think she liked to go in the corner of the kitchen and because that's now out of bounds, because the other one jumps on the unit, it's upsetting her.

I'm going to buy a fourth tray tomorrow and put one back in the kitchen corner, give her access again and just accept that the other one will jump on the unit and make it hazard (and food) free. I've put tin foil on the unit and while it hasn't been a deterrent at least I can hear when she's jumped up and can go and get her down!

Thanks for your advice @chillminx. I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow .


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

You could be right. Fingers crossed  I'll be interested to hear the results. It is true cats often do not like their litter trays being moved, or being denied access to somewhere they were able to go previously for their toilet...


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

chillminx said:


> If the anal glands were full and the vet had to empty them then it means they are not emptying every time she defecates, which could be because there is not enough pressure in the rectum to cause the glands to empty.
> 
> Full anal glands can be uncomfortable for the cat, or cause an itchy bottom. Have you ever seen her scooting her bottom along the floor? They often do this after they poo if their anal glands are not emptying. Impacted anal glands can become imfected.
> 
> ...


Looks like we were posting at the same time. There's been no scooting, which the vet was surprised about. I'll definitely bear this in mind and maybe get some Libby's in.


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

It's making me so stressed out now. I feel awful for her and have no idea what to do. I'm going to the vet tomorrow to pick up the litter to do a urine sample but she's doing it all the time and I have no idea why!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sorry to hear this @jemfiddlesticks, but please, please try and stay calm. Our cats are very sensitive to our moods and your cat will have picked up on your stress levels and that is possibly why the soiling has got worse now. She knows you are upset but she doesn't know why so it is making her anxious I think.

However I do agree it is worth having a urine sample tested for a UTI, just in case. But bear in mind that a test won't pick up feline cystitis which may be her problem, rather than an actual UTI..

These problems can be a challenge to resolve sometimes, but patience and some observant detective work will often find the answer. Please keep posting your updates so we can work on this together.


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

Thanks @chillminx

I've been spraying the areas of the carpet she pulls with Feliway. This seems to temporarily stop her pulling the carpet in these areas, instead she just goes and sits there.

I think she's only had one wee so far today which is worrying, when my mum came to feed her at lunch time. Hopefully she will go again before I go to bed and that will put my mind at ease a little.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

If she is eating a wet food diet she will be getting plenty of fluids in her food. But if she is not weeing much it could be because it is painful to pee. In which case she will concentrating her urine as cats are able to do (an ability inherited from their desert ancestors which was very valuable to them when water was in short supply in the desert) 

However, if she does have cystitis or a UTI the answer is for her to pee more often, with a more dilute urine so that it is not painful for her. This means increasing the volume of her fluid intake. Can you get her to drink home made chicken broth ? Or even some warmed goats milk (if it does not upset her tummy)?


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

I only have chicken breasts in at the moment and had my pupils dilated at the hospital this afternoon so can't drive to get her anything else until tomorrow. Can I just boil a chicken breast for now and use that as broth?

I'll add some more water to her wet food too to try and help.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Yes a chicken breast will be fine for rmaking broth.. Cover well with water, bring to boil then cover with lid and simmer for about 45 mins. Top up the liquid level with hot water from the kettle as required. She can have the cooked chicken to eat too.


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

No progress with this . Still pulling the carpet when she needs to use the tray, regardless of why. Sometimes she runs to the tray then just stands next to it and doesn't go in. If I lift her in then she sometimes goes, sometimes she then goes to one of the other trays, sometimes she gets in and paces around and squats a few times and then goes, sometimes she just runs off. 

She's also still only weeing twice a day, she definitely used to go more than this. I tried the chicken broth then the next day they both had diaerrea, not sure if it was related to that or not.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Did you skim the fat off the broth once it had been in the fridge overnight? You should have been left with a jelly type substance which when warmed up turns to liquid. I'd be very surprised if the jelly were to give them diarrhoea, but if you left the fat in it possibly could.

What does the vet think is the problem? Was she checked for a UTI?


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

The vet has no idea! They had run out of the litter they needed for me to get a sample, I picked it up a couple of days ago and I'm going to do the sample tomorrow morning. I need to be there to make sure I get the right kitten! I'm also going to take her to the vet for open surgery tomorrow so they can check her over again. She's stopped covering her wee up now, although she still isn't showing any signs of pain when she goes or anything. She's a mystery!


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## jemfiddlesticks (Aug 19, 2016)

So we've been to the vet a few times since this. We went last week because they were shaking their heads and scratching their ears to find that they both, somehow, had ear infections. 

I explained to the vet that I'd been struggling to get a urine sample from Luna and she gave me more litter to try again. We went back today to have their ears checked, all better, and her bladder was full enough for them to get a sample there. Apparently there was blood in her urine but no crystals and we now have metacam to try for a week and then we have to go back again. 

I'm hoping that this helps to sort it out!


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