# Lets See Some More of Those Oppressed Showdogs!!



## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Hi There,

Well after the recent thread where several posts mentioned the awful life show dogs have I thought it was time the PF members showed their poor oppressed dogs. And, to make it a bit different this time, lets see the dog in "show mode" being perfumed and preened as it were  And then in "normal dog mode" which of course, will have been staged cos no show dogs have normal lives :thumbup:

Firstly, Maya being Show dog.. Poor girl 














































And naturally, all show dogs are caged when not in the ring :lol:










The princess doesnt walk out of a show, of course!!










And being Normal dog:

(Staged pics of course!lol)





































"OMG! Theres a non-showdog behind me! I cant bear to look at it!!! :scared: "




























Will dig through my albums so more to see if i can find any other dogs!! Please, add your own!


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Shocking photos, that poor girl is obviously in torment, I think Maya should be removed from your care.... can I put my name forward to have her please:lol:.


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Beautiful pics of a very happy girl both in and out of the ring:thumbup:

Goodness, Maya can certainly stride out by the way can't she, gorgeous:001_wub:


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

Here is mine...poor dogs!


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

Jess your girl is gorgeous


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

O you wicked, wicked people 

great pics too Luvdogs....you allow a show dog to chase a Frisbee?? 

Shock ,horror  :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

that tri basenji looks ill treated lol. i better come and dognap it........................lol


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Oh, that poor basenji has an awful life you know. Naturally, when she is not at a show she is caged all the time. Wouldnt want her getting injured afterall!!!

Well, technically she has the run of the house and is currently snuggled up on the sofa asleep but dont want to ruin the stereotype do I!lol

Love how you photoshopped the frisbee and tennis ball into your pics Luvdogs, cos of course show dogs arent allowed to play with TOYS!!!lol

Sarcasm overload lol

Here;s some more of mine:

Vinnie Showdog:



















And maybe not such a normal dog afterall..!lol




























Beau in the ring:














































Normal Beau:























































Show Chloe:

(Our beautiful ten year old puppy!)



















Normal Chloe:























































With her family (all of these are descended from Chloe):


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Lovely pictures - Jess, you girl has grown into a lovely young lady 

A couple of mine and their hard lives 



















The puppy just HATING her training


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I would love to add some photos of my poor show dogs but unfortunatley I always go to shows on my own so never manage to get photos.:frown:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

More labbies on the beach, they love it


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Freyja said:


> I would love to add some photos of my poor show dogs but unfortunatley I always go to shows on my own so never manage to get photos.:frown:


Thats ok, you can skip the show dog pic, I want to see more pics of your lovely dogs :thumbup:


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

I am in Lab heaven!  :thumbup:

You got me with ball and frisbee!! lmao


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Such fantastic pictures,wow ,stunning dogs too.
I dont show,so cant contribute im afraid lol,but loving all your pics xx


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## lauz_1982 (Dec 14, 2009)

I don't show but I love looking at the photos! Great post!

Jess I love the pic of Chloe with the ball - total action shot! Looks a bit possessed (only in that pic!) with the big teeth and crossed eyes! Funny! 

Laura


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Poor dog has obviously been driven insane with all the pressure of showing, its sent him savage tut tut :lol:.


Jess2308 said:


>


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

That is my favourite pic of Chloe, she looks SO evil, yet she has the most amazing, sweet temperment!! Also, at 8 yrs old (when that pic was taken!) she still had a pretty good set of teeth, and they're just as good now!! If that isnt a good advert for a raw diet i dont know what is lol


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

*STOP!!!!!!!!!!!
*This isnt fair, I wanna show again
Loving the pics tho


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

How could you torture those poor dogs like that? Everyone knows no show dogs ever play in water or with balls and frisbees those are clearly photoshopped. You all have gorgeous dogs


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## pickle (Mar 24, 2008)

Your Basenji is beautiful!!!! What is the breed like to live with?


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

pickle said:


> Your Basenji is beautiful!!!! What is the breed like to live with?


Wonderful!! I cant fault her. Quiet, clean, no smell and she is my cuddly adorable lapdog!!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Why can't people just get along. Dogs are dogs and they're all beautiful whether they're curled up next to you (like Sky is right now), out working or in the show ring!! No matter their shape, size and length of tail they are all equal in my eyes!

Lovely pics x


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Why can't people just get along. Dogs are dogs and they're all beautiful whether they're curled up next to you (like Sky is right now), out working or in the show ring!! No matter their shape, size and length of tail they are all equal in my eyes!
> 
> Lovely pics x


Huh??? 

Who's arguing? I must have missed that :lol:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Huh???
> 
> Who's arguing? I must have missed that :lol:


Oh wait, I forgot it's called a discussion pmsl :lol:


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Why can't people just get along. Dogs are dogs and they're all beautiful whether they're curled up next to you (like Sky is right now), out working or in the show ring!! No matter their shape, size and length of tail they are all equal in my eyes!
> 
> Lovely pics x


Exactly, too much trauma in this world rep on the way


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Kinjilabs said:


> Exactly, too much trauma in this world rep on the way


Thanks hun 

I have to admit it makes good late night reading though :thumbup:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

But theres no arguing on this thread...?? It was purely to show off our NORMAL show dogs as people seem to think theres no such thing 

If you dont like seeing the pics then you dont have to, but its not very nice to leave rude comments


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> But theres no arguing on this thread...?? It was purely to show off our NORMAL show dogs as people seem to think theres no such thing
> 
> If you dont like seeing the pics then you dont have to, but its not very nice to leave rude comments


No you dafty I mean the other thread.

I've not left any rude comments  I said I loved the pics!

Christ I think I better bugger off now before anyone else takes offence to me!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Ohh... I thought you were saying that the pics were causing an argument :lol:

That thread did inspire this one, but I also did one of these several months ago, I like to see everyones new pics of their show dogs!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Ohh... I thought you were saying that the pics were causing an argument :lol:
> 
> That thread did inspire this one, but I also did one of these several months ago, I like to see everyones new pics of their show dogs!


:lol: No worries I did exactly the same on the GSD lovers thread.

Any excuse for pics is good I reckon anyway 

Sky likes to pretend she's a show dog but that's as close as I get


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Maya likes to pretend she's a gundog!! She is forever retrieving other dogs toys at the park, comes trotting over to me with them, ever so proud of herself  'basenjidor retriever' maybe?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Maya likes to pretend she's a gundog!! She is forever retrieving other dogs toys at the park, comes trotting over to me with them, ever so proud of herself  'basenjidor retriever' maybe?


:thumbup: You could start a new trend


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

My new designer breed, a barkless lab!!! I'd make a bloomin' fortune!lol


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

Here are my hairy bunch !!



























































































Yvonne


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Gorgeous pics Bijou.....

..especially them all waiting in anticipation

xx

Great thread, showing the dogs enjoying themselves on their fun days out whether at shows, home or walks:thumbup:


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## Sam1309 (May 18, 2010)

i love the pics, but those german sheps are outta this world


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## Montys_Mum (Jun 4, 2010)

Love all the pictures!!!! Amazing doggies, looking really happy in all of them! 

Monty doesn't show, but might do in future, if I could get him to stand still with other dogs around that is! lol


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Here are mine - at show and play!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> Here are mine - at show and play!


Absolutely stunning, all of them. A credit to you!!


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Lovely pics of all the dogs :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

There are some fabulous dogs on here - I think they are all fantastic and a credit to their owners. Anyone with any sense at all can see how happy and healthy these show dogs are, and how they all have a life outside the show ring! Hope it helps people who think show dogs are abused to realise the truth!


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

some of mine on Exmouth beach..........


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> There are some fabulous dogs on here - I think they are all fantastic and a credit to their owners. Anyone with any sense at all can see how happy and healthy these show dogs are, and how they all have a life outside the show ring! Hope it helps people who think show dogs are abused to realise the truth!


If Maya could post she would only increase the negativity towards show dogs!! This weekend for example she had to get out of (my) bed at 6am!!! I mean, if thats not cruelty i dont know what is!! She had to have her breakfast in bed as it was just too early for a princess.. Until she heard the show kit being loaded into the car then she had to "help" lol

But yes, this thread I think is good to show how our dogs can be prim and proper show dogs AND normal, mucky dogs as well. I'd love to see a working version of this too, dogs doing gundog work/agility/obedience then lazing at home or playing! :thumbup:


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Too lazy to upload any pictures but Blu lives a horrible life.. He is forced to run around the garden and roll in all the grass so he is covered in moss and horrible stuff. When at the park or beach he is made to go into the water and swim or jump into mud! Also has to live life locked up in a house where he sleeps on human beds and sofas. Life must suck for him


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## channyy1x (Mar 24, 2010)

To be fair there are SOME people that treat there showdogs like rubbish!they dont keep them as pets only to earn them trophies and money.thats what I disagree with


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

channyy1x said:


> To be fair there are SOME people that treat there showdogs like rubbish!they dont keep them as pets only to earn them trophies and money.thats what I disagree with


Money!?! :lol: I wish.. Your lucky to make any money or even got a rosette at some shows! Yes some keep them in kennels and sell them on when they have finished showing but there is plenty that are kept as everyday pets.


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

My traumatised show dogs


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

channyy1x said:


> To be fair there are SOME people that treat there showdogs like rubbish!they dont keep them as pets only to earn them trophies and money.thats what I disagree with


And you are basing this on ............ what, exactly?

The highest amount of money you can win anywhere is for BIS at Crufts - which was the princely sum of £100.00 this year (and no, the decimal point is not in the wrong place, it really was one hundred pounds!)

Now when you think that in order to qualify for Crufts you have to win in certain classes at a Championship show, and there are hundreds of owners with hundreds of dogs all trying to do the same thing, can you imagine how many shows people go to each year? There is at least a championship show every month (and sometimes every week in the summer). Entry fees alone will cost from £21.00 to £25.00 _*per dog per class*_, and then there is the cost of petrol, food and sometimes accommodation, so just how much money do you reckon showing earns people?

We definitely ain't in it for the money hun - the entry fees alone for just one show with four dogs and two nieces in handling classes costs more than we could win at Crufts. It costs literally thousands a year. If I didn't show I'd probably be able to quit work!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Tollisty said:


> My traumatised show dogs


Oh no, not more poor, abused, traumatised show dogs - it's a wonder this thread hasn't been banned!!

We all ought to be thoroughly ashamed of ourselves for treating these poor dogs in this way!


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

Here are some of mine being tortured in the showring:














































Then, even worse they are forced to pull me and/or my son around forest trails for miles and miles:





































This is them waiting to go our for a run - you can just see how cowed and broken they are:










What's worse, they are sometimes forced to do unpaid welfare work:




























No wonder they are so tired that when they get home all they can do is sleep:





































Or maybe play for a bit:




























Or just slip away for a quiet pint:










Mick


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

at a show










chilling out its ahard life










OMG a muddy show dog


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

channyy1x said:


> To be fair there are SOME people that treat there showdogs like rubbish!they dont keep them as pets only to earn them trophies and money.thats what I disagree with


That is not what this thread is about, it is showing off our babies that we love and have a wonderful hobby we share with them :thumbup: And to show that they can adapt from being "professional" show dogs to being normal dogs


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Sometimes dogs are forced to walk on 2 legs instead on 4..


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

Here is one pic at a safe spot, for Arch and girlfriend to have a good charge around after a show, it really has helped with his socialisation 










Another show pic  Ruby strutting her stuff!


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

These are amazing pictures!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

You guys have such adorable doggies!! So beautiful!! I dont show, but I dont think its bad and these pictures are very clearly showing this!!!


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

> i love the pics, but those german sheps are outta this world


 THak you but they are not German shepherds but Belgian Shepherds ( the BEST kind !!! :thumbup: )

Malinois









Tervueren










Groenendael










and Laekenois










we breed show and work Groenendaels and Tervueren

Yvonne


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

*Friends and acquaintances.*


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

This is my poor show dog forced to relax and be a normal pet dog
Next picture is her in the ring and then she forced to eat sausages for being good, omg she even get treats and cuddles if she comes last!!! :lol:


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

I don't think that your dogs are abused because you show them, but I can't help noticing that every single dog in the pictures looks a lot more happy in the non-showing pictures.


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

Vicki said:


> I don't think that your dogs are abused because you show them, but I can't help noticing that every single dog in the pictures looks a lot more happy in the non-showing pictures.


That's because they are focussed and concentrating. When I'm working I don't walk around with a huge grin on my face, but it doesn't mean I don't love what I am doing!

Mick


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

raindog said:


> That's because they are focussed and concentrating. When I'm working I don't walk around with a huge grin on my face, but it doesn't mean I don't love what I am doing!
> 
> Mick


Nice try, but that's just an excuse. I compete my older dog in obedience, which requires a lot of concentration and focus, and he still manages to look like he loves what he's doing. He needs to concentrate while tracking and doing agility as well and he still looks happy doing it.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Vicki said:


> Nice try, but that's just an excuse. I compete my older dog in obedience, which requires a lot of concentration and focus, and he still manages to look like he loves what he's doing. He needs to concentrate while tracking and doing agility as well and he still looks happy doing it.


what about this big happy grin :thumbup:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Vicki said:


> Nice try, but that's just an excuse. I compete my older dog in obedience, which requires a lot of concentration and focus, and he still manages to look like he loves what he's doing. He needs to concentrate while tracking and doing agility as well and he still looks happy doing it.


I have yet to see a single posted on this thread of an unhappy dog. They all look very happy doing what they are doing.

Obedience is completely different to showing. I could post some videos of my dogs showing which show their enthusiasm for the ring much better, but I cant access youtube from work.

Obedience, agility and tracking require much more exhuberance from the dog than showing, it doesnt mean that they enjoy it more or less.


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

If it's grins you want.......



















Mick


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

raindog said:


> If it's grins you want.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


awesome... that first picture is unbeatable, posing and jumping at the same time :thumbup:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Unhappy in the ring?? I think not.. an unhappy pug does not stand up on its toes with its tail tightly curled (the tail uncurls when they are unhappy/nervous/stressed), nor does a basenji either for that matter...! Nor would an unhappy dog stride out with such enthusiasm!!!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

And if we're wanting grins, here we go! 










And another one... Im grinning anyway lol!! But Maya looks pretty happy to me 










Oops.. and another one! If this isnt a doggie grin i dont know what is!!


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Vicki said:


> Nice try, but that's just an excuse. I compete my older dog in obedience, which requires a lot of concentration and focus, and he still manages to look like he loves what he's doing. He needs to concentrate while tracking and doing agility as well and he still looks happy doing it.


there's always one


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Natik said:


> what about this big happy grin :thumbup:


Yes, that's a big happy grin  I love seeing happy, working dogs. I like the other happy, grinning dog pictures as well, but they only prove my point. Not one of them is of a grinning dog in the show ring...

I'm not saying that they are abused for being shown. I don't think a dog suffers from not being happy/being bored for a few minutes out of a day, as long as they otherwise live a good life, which all of your dogs seem to do. But in my opinion dog shows are for people, not for dogs. It's you who love it, not the dogs.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Vicki said:


> Yes, that's a big happy grin  I love seeing happy, working dogs. I like the other happy, grinning dog pictures as well, but they only prove my point. Not one of them is of a grinning dog in the show ring...
> 
> I'm not saying that they are abused for being shown. I don't think a dog suffers from not being happy/being bored for a few minutes out of a day, as long as they otherwise live a good life, which all of your dogs seem to do. But in my opinion dog shows are for people, not for dogs. It's you who love it, not the dogs.


Well, thats your opinion, but those of us who show our dogs know different. They are not unhappy OR bored in the ring, quite the opposite  It is quite insulting to say that we make our dogs unhappy for our own enjoyment but... there we go 

And actually the grinning pug was taken in the show ring during a stakes class last weekend  She was standing while the judge looked at her for his final cut in the very large class  She'd had a wonderful time playing with the other pug (being a fidget at the top of the pic) and had thoroughly loved her trotting/bounding around the ring!


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## JessiesGirl (May 8, 2010)

Here's the most 'traumatized' picture I could find of one of my mom's show dogs. And it's only 'traumatizing' because he was wearing a scarf and had to stop playing for a second!:lol:

http://s874.photobucket.com/albums/ab310/Jessie0310/?action=view&current=Blazer12-08sitweb.jpg

You can see by all the footprints in the snow that he's been having quite a romp just before he was posed for the picture. :thumbup:

ETA: Sorry, couldn't get the picture to embed! So hotlinked it instead.


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

Anyone who thinks dogs don't like showing should watch the labrador and flat coat judging, they all have waggy tails  It's almost a fault if they haven't got a waggy tail!

Mine have a great time in the ring, Ember, my puppy, bounces about and just stands still long enough for the judge to look! She always has a smile on her face.


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## JessiesGirl (May 8, 2010)

Tollisty said:


> Anyone who thinks dogs don't like showing should watch the labrador and flat coat judging, they all have waggy tails  It's almost a fault if they haven't got a waggy tail!
> 
> Mine have a great time in the ring, Ember, my puppy, bounces about and just stands still long enough for the judge to look! She always has a smile on her face.


Too true! My mom's dogs start to get excited when they're groomed, because they know they're going to be shown!

God forbid we start loading up the van! They're dancing and running and generally making fools of themselves! 

They love being shown.

And you're right, the dogs that tend to win in the ring often prance and wag and smile and are just thrilled to be there! :thumbup:


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

It does amaze me that non show people seem to think that dogs don't enjoy being show :confused1: You can't force any dog to show they show themselves and LOVE IT!!! I have two of the most soicalized, well mannered and calm dogs I have never owned and that is down to them been taken to ringcraft 2x a week and shows most weekends, they mix and play with many different breeds, they go crazy when they see me getting the show bags ready and they always run upstairs when they hear the shower running coz they think it bath time :thumbup:


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

My friends standard poodle hates being in the ring...  He gets so excited like Blu that he walks on his back legs


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## tiddlypup (Oct 4, 2008)

well,im disgusted,all these poor dogs forced to chase balls,run through mud/water,leap in the air after a ball,bring the stupid ball back to be launched again,catch frisbees,torture pure torture :lol:
beautiful happy dogs,credit to you all


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

> I compete my older dog in obedience, which requires a lot of concentration and focus, and he still manages to look like he loves what he's doing.


I have seen many stressed worried dogs competeing in obedience - in fact we call some Border Collies 'Border Cringers' because of their submissive body posture when they work - I've seen plenty of Agility dogs kept in crates for long hours until it's their turn to compete and equally many competitors in both doggy sports who take out their frustration with a bad round on their dogs ( one charming competitor took her collie round the back of her caravan and proceeded to beat it around the head for performing badly ) - I've seen dogs made to perform what I can only describe as circus tricks as part of their heel work to music routines and obviously unhappy about doing so especially during training - there is no more intrinsic merit in any of these canine activities - all are done for the glorification of the owner .

where ever there is a competitive element you will get some folks that will want to win even at the cost of their dog - not most but some - and this applies across the board in all activities - at least showing has a real and valuable purpose in that it ensures the maintainance and continuation of the hundreds of different breeds currently available, sports such as HWTM, Agility and obedience serve individual breeds no useful purpose at all !

Yvonne


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## JessiesGirl (May 8, 2010)

Bijou said:


> I have seen many stressed worried dogs competeing in obedience - in fact we call some Border Collies 'Border Cringers' because of their submissive body posture when they work - I've seen plenty of Agility dogs kept in crates for long hours until it's their turn to compete and equally many competitors in both doggy sports who take out their frustration with a bad round on their dogs ( one charming competitor took her collie round the back of her caravan and proceeded to beat it around the head for performing badly ) - I've seen dogs made to perform what I can only describe as circus tricks as part of their heel work to music routines and obviously unhappy about doing so especially during training - there is no more intrinsic merit in any of these canine activities - all are done for the glorification of the owner .
> 
> where ever there is a competitive element you will get some folks that will want to win even at the cost of their dog - not most but some - and this applies across the board in all activities - at least showing has a real and valuable purpose in that it ensures the maintainance and continuation of the hundreds of different breeds currently available, sports such as HWTM, Agility and obedience serve individual breeds no useful purpose at all !
> 
> Yvonne


It's certainly fair to bring this point up. Wherever there are people, there will be some atrocious behavior. :scared:

But thankfully, it's not the majority of people who show or compete their dogs. Responsible breeders and owners do not subject their dogs to traumatizing activities and certainly do not scare and beat them. :eek6:

Over the many years my family has been involved with showing and breeding, there have been two dogs I can think of that seemed like fantastic show prospects who we didn't keep showing.

One was at an outdoor show when a storm came up. A tent blew over onto the show ring and he just never was happy again in the ring. After a few tries at reconditioning him, we gave up and just made him a beloved pet. His show days were over because he clearly was miserable in the ring after the tent incident. :frown: It would have been cruel to keep him at it.

The other just didn't like it from the get go. So we stopped. Gorgeous dog, but not having a good time. Made an excellent pet for a new owner!:thumbup:

Showing is not only done_ 'for the glorification of the owner'_, at least not by reputable breeders and exhibitors. Of course there is a sense of pride in the training and the breeding if you produced this dog and trained him. But that's not the point of all this.

The point is two-fold:

First, to produce outstanding examples of the breed. Health wise, conformation wise, temperament wise.

Second, to develop a very strong bond with your dog through mutually enjoyed training/exhibiting experiences! 

I'm sorry to hear that you have met such poor breeder/exhibitors that you think that this monumental investment of time, money, heartache, education, training, etc. is just an ego-trip for people with nothing better to do. That hurts my heart.  The people who are in this for the right reasons would also be hurt to hear that this is your opinion of all of us. What you've seen does not represent ALL of us, thankfully! Not only would we be equally appalled, we'd probably not be able to stop ourselves from giving these jerks a piece of our minds!

Training a dog is never a bad thing if you use the proper methods. _You are talking about people who would have been equally abusive with a pet. _ Not a 'show thing'. Idiots are idiots. Most of them are your neighbors, the pet owners. But there are certainly idiots in the show world as well, though fewer.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Bijou - That was a very good point to make. I have only watched agility and obedience as part of a championship show, and therefore only very briefly between my classes. I only compete my lab in obedience at very novice level also so I dont see the more obsessive competitors you describe. But it is an unfortunate fact of life that a few people in all competitive sports involving animals will take their frustration out on the animals. I competed at a high level in showjumping and eventing for many years, and very often if a horse had a bad round I would see parents and/or trainers taking the horse (or, more often, small ponies) and beating it or hammering it over and over and over and over a fence to teach it not to stop/have a fence down. I always think with horses that it is very rare that a bad round is due to the horse, its 99% of the time down to rider error, but theres no point trying to explain it to these people. And the same applies for those who compete with their dogs and treat them in this way, until they are caught doing it and face bans/fines they will continue and unfortunately they give the rest of the sport a bad name. Thankfully they are very few and far between in showing at least, and i imagine so in other dog related activities/sports.

I know of many top exhibitors who, if a dog doesnt seem to enjoy being in the ring, will take it out of the ring. The fact of the matter is, a dog who is not enjoying being in the ring will not show to its best advantage and therefore will not win, so you are wasting £25 a class. There is no incentive to continue showing a dog that is not happy which i think is why it is incredibly rare to see an unhappy showdog in the ring


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

Some of the monsters on their walk yesterday . & the ones where they are 3 1/4 profile standing - they taught themselves that lol :lol: Must add though they are unloved dogs who are very clearly neglected and unhappy .


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Love the one wallowing! That water doesnt look too lovely though, bet s/he stank! lol

Beautiful doglets.


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Bijou said:


> I have seen many stressed worried dogs competeing in obedience - in fact we call some Border Collies 'Border Cringers' because of their submissive body posture when they work - I've seen plenty of Agility dogs kept in crates for long hours until it's their turn to compete and equally many competitors in both doggy sports who take out their frustration with a bad round on their dogs ( one charming competitor took her collie round the back of her caravan and proceeded to beat it around the head for performing badly ) - I've seen dogs made to perform what I can only describe as circus tricks as part of their heel work to music routines and obviously unhappy about doing so especially during training - there is no more intrinsic merit in any of these canine activities - all are done for the glorification of the owner .
> 
> where ever there is a competitive element you will get some folks that will want to win even at the cost of their dog - not most but some - and this applies across the board in all activities - at least showing has a real and valuable purpose in that it ensures the maintainance and continuation of the hundreds of different breeds currently available, sports such as HWTM, Agility and obedience serve individual breeds no useful purpose at all !
> 
> Yvonne


Of course there are people competing in obedience, agility etc who doesn't treat their dogs well and not every dog is happy to do obedience, agility, heelwork to music or whatever. There is also show people that doesn't treat their dog right. There are people that doesn't dog any kind of competitions with their dogs and treat them badly. That's a fact and not at all what I meant.

Judging from the pictures in this thread it doesn't seem like any of treat your dogs badly. It's obvious that they get to "be dogs" and do a lot of fun stuff, besides going to dog shows. But looking at the pictures I couldn't help noticing that there wasn't a single happy dog in the show pictures, but lots of happy dogs in the non-show pictures. How can that be if they love showing so much? If that really was true they'd look as happy as they do in the other pictures, but since they don't my conclusion is that they like doing agility, swimming, bathing in mud etc much more than they like showing.

I don't agree that dog shows serve any purpose whatsoever, since they have done no good for any breed; they all become more and more extreme and useless for their original purpose.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Vicki said:


> But looking at the pictures I couldn't help noticing that there wasn't a single happy dog in the show pictures, but lots of happy dogs in the non-show pictures. How can that be if they love showing so much? If that really was true they'd look as happy as they do in the other pictures, but since they don't my conclusion is that they like doing agility, swimming, bathing in mud etc much more than they like showing.


You should have gone to specsavers! 

To begin with, the pic of my bergies at a show in post 38 is almost identical to the pic of them on the cliffs in Cornwall - facial expression, happiness etc etc.

And how can you say the following dogs don't look happy while they are showing:

The black lab in Post 8
My Quinny in post 38 (the last border collie show pic)
The husky in post 50
The dobe in post 54
The belgian shepherd in post 56
The sarplaniacs in post 57
The pug in post 66

And probably a lot more but they really stood out.

It's true what they say - "There are none so blind as those who will not see"!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

How exactly can you tell from a picture whether a dog is happy or sad anyway??lol


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> You should have gone to specsavers!
> 
> To begin with, the pic of my bergies at a show in post 38 is almost identical to the pic of them on the cliffs in Cornwall - facial expression, happiness etc etc.
> 
> ...


Yes, that saying is absolutely true. Obviously you don't want to see that it's people, not dogs, that enjoy dog shows.

The black lab looked happy in one picture, when the owner recieves the ribbon from the judge, which means that the dog is done showing and therefore he can relax and be happy again. And compared to the pictures of him running in the grass and in the muddy puddle, he looks a lot happier in them than in the show picture.

The last border collie picture is very small, so I can't really see, but it doesn't strike me as a picture of a happy dog. Not the first border collie picture either; that dog looks really bored. However, the pictures from the beach really show happy dogs and the pictures with you with a lot of prizes and three dogs is a very nice picture. It's a lot like the one from the cliffs, as you say. But even if the picture is taken at a dog show it doesn't make it a show picture. They're posing for a photograhper; they're not in the ring.

I don't know which husky you mean, but none of them look happy, except in the pictures where they are pulling the bike or the sled or playing. Very beautiful dogs, though.

I can't really see if the doberman is happy or not from looking at it behind, especially since it doesn't have a tail. But it doesn't seem to carry whatever tail is left high and the ears is not pointed forward, which indicates that it's not really enjoying itself.

The Belgian Shepherd looks happy at a first glance, but there is not happiness in it's eyes. The sarplaninacs also have sad eyes.

The pug in post 66 does not look happy. In fact, the last picture shows one of the most unhappy dogs in this thread. Her eyes look so sad it almost makes me want to cry :frown:. However, the same pug (I'm guessing it's the same pug, anyway) does look happy in post 67, even if it's at a dog show. It wasn't obvious that it was from a dog show until the one who posted it said so, so I correct myself- there's one dog that looks happy in one show picture.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Vicki said:


> Yes, that saying is absolutely true. Obviously you don't want to see that it's people, not dogs, that enjoy dog shows.
> 
> The black lab looked happy in one picture, when the owner recieves the ribbon from the judge, which means that the dog is done showing and therefore he can relax and be happy again. And compared to the pictures of him running in the grass and in the muddy puddle, he looks a lot happier in them than in the show picture.
> 
> ...


OMG will you please get a grip and stop slagging our dogs off about something you know nothing about!!! 

As Mick said, just because you don't go around with a stupid grin on your face doesn't mean you're not happy does it??

The huskies have a look of concentration, they are watching their handlers and this expression is common when they are very focused.
If you knew _anything _about arctic breeds you would be aware of this 

P.S. can you show me what happiness looks like in a dogs eyes seeing you are all knowing and all seeing? I could do with a laugh


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Vicki said:


> Yes, that saying is absolutely true. Obviously you don't want to see that it's people, not dogs, that enjoy dog shows.
> 
> The black lab looked happy in one picture, when the owner recieves the ribbon from the judge, which means that the dog is done showing and therefore he can relax and be happy again. And compared to the pictures of him running in the grass and in the muddy puddle, he looks a lot happier in them than in the show picture.
> 
> ...


This post tells me one thing for sure, you have never met a pug :lol:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Starlite said:


> OMG will you please get a grip and stop slagging our dogs off about something you know nothing about!!!
> 
> As Mick said, just because you don't go around with a stupid grin on your face doesn't mean you're not happy does it??
> 
> ...


Seriously, how dumb are you?!! CLEARLY this is what a happy dog looks like!!

DUH!!!










:lol:

Oh, and what a happy pug looks like, obviously mine are very depressed as they never look like this


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Seriously, how dumb are you?!! CLEARLY this is what a happy dog looks like!!
> 
> DUH!!!
> 
> ...


ahh right, thats what i should be seeing at shows :lol:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Wow.

Honestly. Disagreeing with showing is one thing but this is just wrong.

Everyone here LOVES their dogs. I honestly doubt they would make them do something they were uncomfortable with.


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Starlite said:


> P.S. can you show me what happiness looks like in a dogs eyes seeing you are all knowing and all seeing? I could do with a laugh


Take a look at the show pictures of the huskies and then take a look at the pictures when they are pulling the bike and the sled. Also take a look at the post where one of them is doing agility. Can you honestly say that they look just as happy in the show pictures as they do pulling or doing agility? Because to me they look a lot happier in the "action" pictures (as does most of the dogs in this post).

It's not just the eyes, it's also about posture, how it hold it's tails and ears etc. If you didn't know, dogs convey their feelings through body language, so it's not that far fetched to get a hint of how it feels from a picture.

Take a look at these two pictures and tell me if you really can't judge which one is of a happy dog and which one is of a not so happy dog (it's the same dog; just because a dog looks unhappy in one picture it doesn't mean it's always unhappy).


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> This post tells me one thing for sure, you have never met a pug :lol:


Well then you're wrong. I know a wonderful little pug bitch by the name of Phoebe, who competes in obedience and agility. She's really fun to watch while competing, becuase she's got a mind of her own and doesn't always do what she's told


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Here we go, I have photographic *PROOF* that my dog is happy and all of yours are abused and hate their lives. Look, mine is laughing in a pic:










Proof i tell you, PROOF!!!!!


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

Okayyy lol - one photo is Hudson in the ring at WELKS, the other on a walk yesterday :lol:. You tell me the happy one? 'Cause maybe its just me but i think they look the same :lol:


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

> I don't agree that dog shows serve any purpose whatsoever


really ? - just who do you think is breeding Schips and Borzois and Skye Terriers and Australian Silkies and Dandie Dinmonts and well lets face it most of the 300 plus breeds YOU and the rest of the general public currently have available to choose from ? - just who is it who is funding health testing and research and who almost without exception routinely health tests their dogs ? - who is it who goes to seminars, who arranges training and who run breed clubs ? who is it who import new dogs , use frozen semen and search the world for the best match for their bitch in order to widen the gene pools of rare breeds - who is it who keeps meticulous records, who tracks the health of their dogs and their offspring who studies pedigres so that they know which dogs to avoid and which to use ?

As a breeder of course I think the dogs I produce are the best - but it's only when they are assessed against others of their breed that I can really know - and it's at the show ring that I can see the latest imports - the pups they have produced and the dogs I am thinking of using on my bitch -as a judge it's only when I am in the ring going over the dogs that I can get a true idea of how my breed is faring - what common problems are creeping in and what the strengths in the breed are . Without showing we would all be isolated pockets of breeders producing what we think is right but without an overall goal or view - yes showing is fun but it's also vital if we are to maintain and improve the breeds we are passionate about.


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

Excellent post Bijou!

Mick


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Bijou - superb post - rep given.

Sadly, just as people argue it is OK to leave a tiny puppy for 8 weeks a day or those that think it's OK to breed wthout heath tests  - they are some who genuinely believe the misperception that it's cruel to show 

On the very rare occasions I see a dog clearly unhappy in the ring I cringe - and TBH - you can almost guarantee they won't still be there in a month or two's time.

I love to see dogs doing any activity, whether it be working, agility, obedience, showing - so long as they are clearly enjoying - IMO - there is nothing more pleasing than watching them.



Spellweaver said:


> And how can you say the following dogs don't look happy while they are showing:
> 
> The black lab in Post 8
> My Quinny in post 38 (the last border collie show pic)
> ...


And the yellow lab on Page 10


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

Vicki said:


> Take a look at the show pictures of the huskies and then take a look at the pictures when they are pulling the bike and the sled. Also take a look at the post where one of them is doing agility. Can you honestly say that they look just as happy in the show pictures as they do pulling or doing agility? Because to me they look a lot happier in the "action" pictures (as does most of the dogs in this post).
> 
> It's not just the eyes, it's also about posture, how it hold it's tails and ears etc. If you didn't know, dogs convey their feelings through body language, so it's not that far fetched to get a hint of how it feels from a picture.


You are actually disproving your own argument here. As I said earlier - in the showring, the dogs are concentrating and focussed and this is shown perfectly by their body language. The ears are pricked and the eyes are alert - both focussed on the handler. The tails are down - in huskies a sign that they are relaxed, but concentrating hard. 
If they were unhappy, their tails would literally be between their legs.
A focussed and concentrating husky in the showring holds his tail down and relaxed:










When moving in the showring, his tail is held like a plume:










When working in harness, his tail tends to stream out behind him:










BTW this dog is a UK Champion and absolutely loves showing.

Mick


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

My Vizslas tail is held up, i am not even touching it! if he didn't like it he wouldn't be going, simple as really.... 
He is a show off 
My male Lab goes to ringcraft ( great for socialising) and the odd companion show, and he is a tart! he loves it and goes all silly.
Now if it was my bitch Lab she would hate it as she is on the timid side...
I love my PETS if they didn't enjoy neither would i....


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Bijou said:


> really ? - just who do you think is breeding Schips and Borzois and Skye Terriers and Australian Silkies and Dandie Dinmonts and well lets face it most of the 300 plus breeds YOU and the rest of the general public currently have available to choose from ? - just who is it who is funding health testing and research and who almost without exception routinely health tests their dogs ? - who is it who goes to seminars, who arranges training and who run breed clubs ? who is it who import new dogs , use frozen semen and search the world for the best match for their bitch in order to widen the gene pools of rare breeds - who is it who keeps meticulous records, who tracks the health of their dogs and their offspring who studies pedigres so that they know which dogs to avoid and which to use ?
> 
> As a breeder of course I think the dogs I produce are the best - but it's only when they are assessed against others of their breed that I can really know - and it's at the show ring that I can see the latest imports - the pups they have produced and the dogs I am thinking of using on my bitch -as a judge it's only when I am in the ring going over the dogs that I can get a true idea of how my breed is faring - what common problems are creeping in and what the strengths in the breed are . Without showing we would all be isolated pockets of breeders producing what we think is right but without an overall goal or view - yes showing is fun but it's also vital if we are to maintain and improve the breeds we are passionate about.


The borzoi has been bred in Russia for a 1000 years, long before there were dog shows so I seriously doubt that the breed was created because of dog shows. Australian Silky Terriers were bred to kill rats. The Skye Terrier as well as the Dandie Dinmont Terrier were bred to hunt fox, badger etc under ground.

The simple reason why there are so many breeds to choose from is that dogs have been bred for different purposes for hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years. True, there are a few breeds that have had no other purpuse that to look good on their owners arm, but the majority of breeds have been created to work in some way. And thank to dog shows, most breed don't have the build or the temperament to perform what they were once bred to do.

It's not only people that show their dogs that health test their dogs. I don't know what it's like in the UK, but in Sweden you can't register the puppies if the parents are not health tested. In some breeds, a mental test (or rather a description of the dogs mentality) is required for a breeder to register the puppies. There is no requirement for dog show results, however some breeds have to have work merits to become champions.

Of course it's good that there are good breeders that goes to seminars, import dogs and semen, health test their dogs, look for the best mate for their dogs etc. However, I doubt that every breeder that show their dogs cares about the overall goal or even have the breeds best at heart.

If you really want to maintain and improve your breeds they should be assessed as working dogs, not in the show ring. Herding and guarding the herd is what they were bred for and _that_ is what should be maintained and improved.


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

Vicki said:


> If you really want to maintain and improve your breeds they should be assessed as working dogs, not in the show ring. Herding and guarding the herd is what they were bred for and _that_ is what should be maintained and improved.


Some breeds can be assessed by their performance in the working arena, but some cannot, and in those breeds, the showring assumes great importance in maintaining the health and working potential of the breed population. In my breed, Siberian Huskies, as I have said before, there is no way that we can assess the working potential of these dogs in UK conditions. The Siberian Husky is a dog capable of pulling a lightly laden sled up to 100 miles a day in arctic/sub-arctic conditions - day after day! At best, the short distance working/racing we do in the UK can test working attitude, but the only realistic way of assessing their potential as long distance sled dogs is by checking their conformation and movement in the showring.

Mick


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Vicki said:


> If you really want to maintain and improve your breeds they should be assessed as working dogs, not in the show ring. Herding and guarding the herd is what they were bred for and _that_ is what should be maintained and improved.


And what about the many breeds in the toy group that were developed many thousands of years ago in some cases, purely as companion dogs? How exactly would you see breeders assess those to maintain and improve the breed, other than in the show ring? :confused1:


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> And what about the many breeds in the toy group that were developed many thousands of years ago in some cases, purely as companion dogs? How exactly would you see breeders assess those to maintain and improve the breed, other than in the show ring? :confused1:


If theyre' not working dogs hun, they apparently should cease to exit

so there goes our pugs and chihauhuas 

Vicki, you seem to not realise without showing there wouldnt _be _any breeds as we know them today
Without a breed standard there is nothing to aim towards and dogs would be full of crosses and mutts, each and every dog would vary.

So make up your mind


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> And what about the many breeds in the toy group that were developed many thousands of years ago in some cases, purely as companion dogs? How exactly would you see breeders assess those to maintain and improve the breed, other than in the show ring? :confused1:


If theyre' not working dogs hun, they apparently should cease to exist

so there goes our pugs and chihauhuas 

Vicki, you seem to not realise without showing there wouldnt _be _any breeds as we know them today
Without a breed standard there is nothing to aim towards and dogs would be full of crosses and mutts, each and every dog would vary.

So make up your mind 

I also find it very insulting you allege our showdogs are of poor temprament, get your facts right before you spout your rubbish


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## tiddlypup (Oct 4, 2008)

just to add,yes these breeds were around before all shows but if you look back in history the proud owners used to gather and parade their dogs at small informal meets,here they would select a dog to breed their bitch,here was the start of the showing that goes on today,decades ago our ancestors in a way held shows,a bit rough round the edges but they did go on


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

If a dog was unhappy about being shown then it wouldnt do it.

There has been a few times where I have taken Phoenix to a companion show and I know the days when he really cant be bothered to stand still - and my god does he tell me! He figits, he winges, he tells me when he is bored.

So if these dogs didnt like being shown then they wouldnt do it.


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## JessiesGirl (May 8, 2010)

Vicki said:


> Judging from the pictures in this thread it doesn't seem like any of treat your dogs badly. It's obvious that they get to "be dogs" and do a lot of fun stuff, besides going to dog shows. But looking at the pictures I couldn't help noticing that there wasn't a single happy dog in the show pictures, but lots of happy dogs in the non-show pictures. How can that be if they love showing so much? If that really was true they'd look as happy as they do in the other pictures, but since they don't my conclusion is that they like doing agility, swimming, bathing in mud etc much more than they like showing.
> 
> I don't agree that dog shows serve any purpose whatsoever, since they have done no good for any breed; they all become more and more extreme and useless for their original purpose.


Most of the show pictures we have in my family are posed pictures following their wins. The dogs are perfectly happy to stand for those.

Unfortunately, unless you bring a photographer or videopgrapher along with you, it's difficult to get a picture or footage of the dog wagging his way around the ring or jumping up for petting when his win is announced, etc. Very few, if any, of us can afford a personal film crew to trail us around. :001_cool:

If you still do not think that showing serves any purpose whatsoever, I'm not going to spend my time trying to educate you on this in one or two posts. The information on health, genetic testing, better temperaments, etc. is out there for anyone who has an interest in pursuing it. If you have an interest, I'm sure you'll find it.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Phoenix&Charlie'sMum said:


> If a dog was unhappy about being shown then it wouldnt do it.
> 
> There has been a few times where I have taken Phoenix to a companion show and I know the days when he really cant be bothered to stand still - and my god does he tell me! He figits, he winges, he tells me when he is bored.
> 
> So if these dogs didnt like being shown then they wouldnt do it.


cause ur post comes across as u are speaking out for all dogs i personally must disagree with u.
Human has a big influence on dogs, they can make a dog do alot and they will do it, liking it or not. Doesnt mean necesseraly they hate it, but they will follow the owner anywhere, stand for the owner they have been taught to often from an early age and run by the owners side in the ring.

U also just need to look at some dogs doing obedience to disagree with the thought that a dog is simply not going to do something if it doesnt like it.


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

Natik said:


> cause ur post comes across as u are speaking out for all dogs i personally must disagree with u.
> Human has a big influence on dogs, they can make a dog do alot and they will do it, liking it or not. Doesnt mean necesseraly they hate it, but they will follow the owner anywhere, stand for the owner they have been taught to often from an early age and run by the owners side in the ring.
> 
> U also just need to look at some dogs doing obedience to disagree with the thought that a dog is simply not going to do something if it doesnt like it.


Maybe some dogs are a bit more stubborn than others than.

A few of my friends dogs that they show, whenever the dog has had enough, you can tell - and so can the owners


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Phoenix&Charlie'sMum said:


> Maybe some dogs are a bit more stubborn than others than.
> 
> A few of my friends dogs that they show, whenever the dog has had enough, you can tell - and so can the owners


im sure they can, and im sure alot of people know their dogs so well to be able to tell when their dog has had enough even if it might not be so obvious


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

JessiesGirl said:


> The information on health, genetic testing, better temperaments, etc. is out there for anyone who has an interest in persuing it. If you have an interest, I'm sure you'll find it.


I've never said that these things aren't important. In fact, that's exactly what I'm talking about. What's important in dog breeding is temperament and health (which makes health tests very important), NOT looks.

But that has nothing to do with dog shows. ALL dogs need to be health tested, not only dogs that you're breeding from. It's also good if the results of those health tests can be made public in some way, because it makes it a lot easier for the breeders to check the health of the potential mate, the health of it's parents, siblings etc. It's also easier for the buyers to make sure that they're buying a puppy from healthy parents.

I also think that a dogs temperament is very important. I mentioned earlier the mental tests (or rather descriptions of dogs mentality and temperament) that we do in Sweden. I'm very much involved in performing these "tests" and I know quite a bit about how important temperament is. Some personality traits are passed on to the offspring to a very high degree, for example fears (especially fear of gun shots) and shyness to people. The results of these "tests" are made public, which makes things a lot easier for both breeders and buyers.

Working merits is also a great way to assess a dogs temperament. When I bought my Mali puppy, who i bought to compete with in tracking etc, I would never have bought a puppy from parents who just had show merits because that says nothing about their capability to work. I choose a puppy from working lines, because I want to work with her. Of course there are never any guarantees that I'll get a good working dog, but the odds are a lot better than if I had bought a puppy from show lines.

It's not even necessary for a show dog to have a particularly pleasant temperament. I've on several occasions seen dogs shy away from the judge and/or try to bite the judge (and sometimes succeeded) and still win high places in the show because they look good. Breeding from a dog like that will result in puppies that shy away/try to bite, but if they look good they'll win at dog shows and get to spread their bad genes further, making the temperament of the breed get worse and worse. It has already happened to a number of breeds :sad:


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> And what about the many breeds in the toy group that were developed many thousands of years ago in some cases, purely as companion dogs? How exactly would you see breeders assess those to maintain and improve the breed, other than in the show ring? :confused1:


What does it matter what a companion dog looks like? Does it need to be beautiful to be a good companion?

In my opinon the answer is that it doesn't matter and no, it doesn't have to be beautiful. What it does need is to have a nice and suitable temperament for a companion dog. Unfortunately, temperament isn't taken into much consideration at dog shows. Many toy breeds are today shy, fearful and/or aggressive, and that is not a good temperament for a companion dog.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Vicki said:


> What does it matter what a companion dog looks like? Does it need to be beautiful to be a good companion?
> 
> In my opinon the answer is that it doesn't matter and no, it doesn't have to be beautiful. What it does need is to have a nice and suitable temperament for a companion dog. Unfortunately, temperament isn't taken into much consideration at dog shows. Many toy breeds are today shy, fearful and/or aggressive, and that is not a good temperament for a companion dog.


You clearly have no understanding of what a dog show is all about. It is not a beauty contest, it is to find the most *correct* specimen of the breed on show that day. Judged to a standard, usually drawn up many, many years ago. Temperment is paramount at a dog show, the dog must have a good temperment to allow a judge to examine them as is required. Aggressive dogs are sent out of the ring and can be banned from showing, and also from having any progeny registered. Shy dogs should be penalised.

You are incredibly inaccurate in almost everything you are saying


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

raindog said:


> Some breeds can be assessed by their performance in the working arena, but some cannot, and in those breeds, the showring assumes great importance in maintaining the health and working potential of the breed population. In my breed, Siberian Huskies, as I have said before, there is no way that we can assess the working potential of these dogs in UK conditions. The Siberian Husky is a dog capable of pulling a lightly laden sled up to 100 miles a day in arctic/sub-arctic conditions - day after day! At best, the short distance working/racing we do in the UK can test working attitude, but the only realistic way of assessing their potential as long distance sled dogs is by checking their conformation and movement in the showring.
> 
> Mick


Do you seriously believe that a few minutes of trotting in a show ring can show the working potential of a husky? 

If you compare a show husky to a husky that actually work as a sled dog, they hardly look alike. Show huskies are much bigger and heavier and I doubt that they'd last long in a long distance race. However, there's not a great need for long distance sled dogs today. What's important is to keep the character that makes the dog want to pull a sled and keep going even if it's getting tired. I'm sure that can be assessed even in a race over a shorter distance.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Vicki said:


> Unfortunately, temperament isn't taken into much consideration at dog shows. Many toy breeds are today shy, fearful and/or aggressive, and that is not a good temperament for a companion dog.


  temperament is absolutely paramount - apart from anything else, if it wasn't - can you imagine what a riot bringing 1000+ dogs together into a relatively closed environment 

They have to stand alongside other dogs and people at the ringside - they have to run and stand alongside them in the ring - none of these things could be done if the temperament was poor.

Yes, you do very occasionally see dogs with poor temperaments in the ring, but invariably, they usually don't stay showing for too long.

Good temperaments in show bred and working bred dogs are crucial to enable them to do what they are doing.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Vicki said:


> Do you seriously believe that a few minutes of trotting in a show ring can show the working potential of a husky?
> 
> If you compare a show husky to a husky that actually work as a sled dog, they hardly look alike. Show huskies are much bigger and heavier and I doubt that they'd last long in a long distance race. However, there's not a great need for long distance sled dogs today. What's important is to keep the character that makes the dog want to pull a sled and keep going even if it's getting tired. I'm sure that can be assessed even in a race over a shorter distance.


Mick has been showing/breeding and working his huskies for many years and you feel you know enough to tell _him _about them?? God you really are pretentious aren''t you??

Huskies are working sled dogs! If you want to win the Iditarod then most will be crossed with hounds to make them even leaner and faster, but there are still some purebred teams that participate.
I wouldn't class these as sled dogs however as they require much more food to do the same distance and need to wear booties to keep their feet from freezing, unlike a TRUE sled dog. :thumbup:

all you do on this thread is show how little you know of anything tbh


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> You clearly have no understanding of what a dog show is all about. It is not a beauty contest, it is to find the most *correct* specimen of the breed on show that day. Judged to a standard, usually drawn up many, many years ago. Temperment is paramount at a dog show, the dog must have a good temperment to allow a judge to examine them as is required. Aggressive dogs are sent out of the ring and can be banned from showing, and also from having any progeny registered. Shy dogs should be penalised.
> 
> You are incredibly inaccurate in almost everything you are saying


In theory dog shows should be about finding the dog that most looks like the breed standard, but in reality it's a beauty contest. If it was about looking like the breed standard, it wouldn't be necessary to place dogs as winners of this and that. It would suffice to say "Yes, this dog fits the breed standard" or "No, this dog doesn't fit the breed standard". If it was just about the breed standard it should not be possible that one dog could be BOB in one show and get a yellow ribbon the next (I don't know the colours of your ribbons, but in Sweden a yellow ribbon means "not quite typical for the breed". And yet that happens, because it's all about what that particular judge think is beautiful.

If it was just about the breed standard this wouldn't have happened, because the breed standard hasn't been changed since the nineteenth century:
YouTube - History of the change in the german shepherd over the years

Temperament should be paramount in all dog activities, but it's still a fact that dogs with bad temperament win at dog shows. But I do hope that there still are some judges that follow the rules and show aggressive dogs out of the ring, even if I have seen several that doesn't.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Vicki said:


> It's not even necessary for a show dog to have a particularly pleasant temperament. I've on several occasions seen dogs shy away from the judge and/or try to bite the judge (and sometimes succeeded) and still win high places in the show because they look good. Breeding from a dog like that will result in puppies that shy away/try to bite, but if they look good they'll win at dog shows and get to spread their bad genes further, making the temperament of the breed get worse and worse. It has already happened to a number of breeds :sad:


Not in this country you won't have. And whilst you may get the odd one or two show breeders who disregard temperament when breeding (just as in any walk of life - even working breeders) for the majority, temperament is paramount.

A dog show is not a beauty competition. And until you cease labouring under that misapprehension, your judgement about showing and show dogs is always going to be clouded.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Vicki said:


> In theory dog shows should be about finding the dog that most looks like the breed standard, but in reality it's a beauty contest. If it was about looking like the breed standard, it wouldn't be necessary to place dogs as winners of this and that. It would suffice to say "Yes, this dog fits the breed standard" or "No, this dog doesn't fit the breed standard". If it was just about the breed standard it should not be possible that one dog could be BOB in one show and get a yellow ribbon the next (I don't know the colours of your ribbons, but in Sweden a yellow ribbon means "not quite typical for the breed". And yet that happens, because it's all about what that particular judge think is beautiful.
> 
> If it was just about the breed standard this wouldn't have happened, because the breed standard hasn't been changed since the nineteenth century:
> YouTube - History of the change in the german shepherd over the years
> ...


Ok, so you suggest that for a breed like labradors who can have up to about 350 entries at a show, the judge should go over ALL of them in one go and just pick the best out of all 350 dogs? Rather than split them into more manageable sized classes and then pick the one that s/he feels fits the breed standard best from all of those class winners? :lol:

Ok then..... That would be cruel to the dogs, they'd have to stand around for about 6 hours in the ring til the judge had finished examining them all :scared:


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Starlite said:


> all you do on this thread is show how little you know of anything tbh


Totally agree.


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## lillymai08 (Oct 25, 2008)

this is my catalan sheepdog puppy she loves showing


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Vicki said:


> It would suffice to say "Yes, this dog fits the breed standard" or "No, this dog doesn't fit the breed standard". .


I could explain to you about the need for different classes but I really can't be bothered. I will talk forever to someone who is interested, but there is absolutely no point in trying to educate someone with such a closed mind as yours.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> I could explain to you about the need for different classes but I really can't be bothered. I will talk forever to someone who is interested, but there is absolutely no point in trying to educate someone with such a closed mind as yours.


It would be utter chaos, that alone is enough to make it not a sensible option. But, what do we experienced show people know? :lol:


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Starlite said:


> Mick has been showing/breeding and working his huskies for many years and you feel you know enough to tell _him _about them?? God you really are pretentious aren''t you??
> 
> Huskies are working sled dogs! If you want to win the Iditarod then most will be crossed with hounds to make them even leaner and faster, but there are still some purebred teams that participate.
> I wouldn't class these as sled dogs however as they require much more food to do the same distance and need to wear booties to keep their feet from freezing, unlike a TRUE sled dog. :thumbup:
> ...


What do you know about _my_ experience of the breed?

If Mick really believes that a husky's capability to work can be assessed in the show ring I don't think much of his knowledge. However, I really hope that I misinterpreted what he wrote about huskys working capability being assessed in the show ring. Even if Mick, in my opinion, thinks to highly of dog shows, he seems like a nice person that cares enough about his dogs to also work with them. I also like that he doesn't feel the need to belittle me and my opinions, even if he doesn't agree with me.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

This thread seems to have gone off topic somewhat 
Thought I'd throw this one in of a dog having fun at a show. Sorry if you've seen it before.


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Ok, so you suggest that for a breed like labradors who can have up to about 350 entries at a show, the judge should go over ALL of them in one go and just pick the best out of all 350 dogs? Rather than split them into more manageable sized classes and then pick the one that s/he feels fits the breed standard best from all of those class winners? :lol:
> 
> Ok then..... That would be cruel to the dogs, they'd have to stand around for about 6 hours in the ring til the judge had finished examining them all :scared:


If it's not a beauty contest, why do you have to pick a winner? If it was just about judgeing if a dog fit the breed standard there would be no need for winners. I understand why there are different classes, but there still is no need for competition. The judge can look at the dogs in the different classes and decide if it fits the standard or not. There's no need to place dogs and there's no need for Best of Breed, Best of Opposite Sex, Best In Show etc if it was just about whether a dog fits the breed standard or not.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Vicki said:


> If it's not a beauty contest, why do you have to pick a winner? If it was just about judgeing if a dog fit the breed standard there would be no need for winners. I understand why there are different classes, but there still is no need for competition. The judge can look at the dogs in the different classes and decide if it fits the standard or not. There's no need to place dogs and there's no need for Best of Breed, Best of Opposite Sex, Best In Show etc if it was just about whether a dog fits the breed standard or not.


It's about finding the dogs that fits the standard the closest.


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Snoringbear said:


> It's about finding the dogs that fits the standard the closest.


But why is that important? Why isn't it enough that a dog is typical for it's breed and fits the standard? This need to find a winner is what makes it a beauty contest.

In my opinion, all dogs that fit the standard should be considered beautiful dogs (even if their looks not always is to my personal liking), but still the judge have to select which one he/she thinks is the _most_ beautiful. How can that not be a beauty contest?


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Vicki said:


> But why is that important? Why isn't it enough that a dog is typical for it's breed and fits the standard? This need to find a winner is what makes it a beauty contest.
> 
> In my opinion, all dogs that fit the standard should be considered beautiful dogs (even if their looks not always is to my personal liking), but still the judge have to select which one he/she thinks is the _most_ beautiful. How can that not be a beauty contest?


Why? Personal preference - it's what some people like to do and its important to them. Same as pretty much everything else in life. Some people like it, some don't.

Dog's don't win because they are considered beautiful, it's because they fit the the standard the best. What's your definition of a beauty contest?

I thought this link might be intersting re: FCI grading, it also touches on the Swedish KC system. The FCI countries grade dogs irrespective of placing dependent upon how well they fit the standard and then place them. Only those gaining excellent move forwards. This is a better system than we have here in the UK which simply places, because it gives you an indication of how well your dog fits the standard even if you do not place. It's possibly goes half way to what you are suggesting?

JudgingFCI


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Vicki said:


> What do you know about _my_ experience of the breed?


Please enlighten us of your extensive knowledge, we're all here to learn


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Vicki said:


> In my opinion, all dogs that fit the standard should be considered beautiful dogs (even if their looks not always is to my personal liking), but still the judge have to select which one he/she thinks is the _most_ beautiful. How can that not be a beauty contest?


That just about sums up your level of understanding of the show world 

IMO - ALL dogs are beautiful - despite my very strong feelings on the deliberate breeding of them.

A dog in the showring could have a face that might make some onlookers choke on their coffee - but if it most fits the breed standard, with an element of subjectivity included, then it could be put up on the day.

The show looks are movement, temperament, behaviour, how it conforms to the standard -

Beauty is, and always will be subjective - that applies to the dog world as much as the human world and every living and material article in the world, otherwise, we would all want the same partner, and all want the same dog - we would all go to the same venues for holidays and all want to stay in the same hotel.


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## JessiesGirl (May 8, 2010)

Vicki said:


> But why is that important? Why isn't it enough that a dog is typical for it's breed and fits the standard? This need to find a winner is what makes it a beauty contest.
> 
> In my opinion, all dogs that fit the standard should be considered beautiful dogs (even if their looks not always is to my personal liking), but still the judge have to select which one he/she thinks is the _most_ beautiful. How can that not be a beauty contest?


I have really tried to resist taking the bait here. This is my LAST comment on this thread or to you:

The breed standard is not about 'looks'. The breed standard is about a physical ideal that allows and enables a dog's ability to do the job for which he is bred. _Function is supported, enabled and enhanced by form._

Where a causal observer of a bird dog breed might say, "Wow, he almost glides when he moves! Gorgeous!", the breeders and judges know that the movement is the result of precise angles of shoulders, hips and spine, of a proper tailset, etc. He can only move so beautifully (and in the case of bird dogs, silently through even heavy brush!) if he is properly formed. Again, to someone who doesn't know the breed, he's just 'pretty'. To those who do, he has been painstakingly bred to do his breed job perfectly.

Causal observers also get very hung up on coat colors. :scared: Believe it or not, there are reasons for those coat colors._The reasons relate to the breed's job in most cases, and sometimes, because certain coat patterns are linked to totally preventable genetic health problems._

Who do you think funded the development of the genetic testing and other screenings that enable breeders to lessen or outright extinguish problems in their breed? Who do you think made them commonplace in the breeds? Pet owners?? No, it's the breed devotees--the showers, the breeders, the exhibitors and their clubs.

Again, I am sorry I took the bait at all. I'm now out of this discussion as it can't be properly had with an uneducated person in a forum. But hopefully, the few points I've raised have given you some food for thought as you endlessly squawk about the uselessness of showing. Or, more probably, gave someone else a few things to consider. 

Congratulations on your thread-jacking. I didn't think that was allowed here? But I will no longer participate in the thread-jack.


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

> The borzoi has been bred in Russia for a 1000 years, long before there were dog shows so I seriously doubt that the breed was created because of dog shows. Australian Silky Terriers were bred to kill rats. The Skye Terrier as well as the Dandie Dinmont Terrier were bred to hunt fox, badger etc under ground.


yep that's true but you have entirely missed the point - who *now* is using Borzois to hunt wolves ? - it is only because of the show breeder that this beautiful and unique breed survives - can you show me ANY Schipperkees currently working on barges ? -no ? - does this mean that we should lose the breed ?

Hobbies such as Schutzhund and working trials for breeds such as yours and mine are no more a test of the breeds original pupose than gaiting round the show ring - after all the BSD was originally bred to be a living fence not to perform over jumps, tunnels etc or hang onto a padded sleeve .

There is no greater merit in your hobby than mine - the only true test of the Malinois ability to do the work it was originally bred for is to work it with a flock of sheep - do you do this ?


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

Vicki said:


> If Mick really believes that a husky's capability to work can be assessed in the show ring I don't think much of his knowledge. However, I really hope that I misinterpreted what he wrote about huskys working capability being assessed in the show ring. Even if Mick, in my opinion, thinks to highly of dog shows, he seems like a nice person that cares enough about his dogs to also work with them. I also like that he doesn't feel the need to belittle me and my opinions, even if he doesn't agree with me.


Actually I don't think that highly of dog shows as I feel that too many of our current breed specialist judges are more interested in "racing" rather than "working" sled dogs. Of course a husky's "working capability" can't be judged in the show ring. What is (or should be) being judged in the showring is its potential to work as displayed in its conformation and movement. Dogs with poor conformation and movement can still do well in short-distance races, so those races prove little other than (as I said above) the fact that the dog does retain some working attitude. A dog with poor conformation, however, would soon be found out if it was expected to work day after day over vast distances. In fact, over short distances, poor conformation (for a long distance sled dog) can be a positive advantage. A dog with a houndlike sprung back end construction, for example, will undoubtedly be faster over short distances than a standard fitting Siberian, so success in our very limited racing opportunities in the UK proves little about the quality of the dogs involved.
There is also a major difference between "working" attitude and "racing" attitude in sled dogs. For those who race their dogs - especially over short distances, there is an advantage in having a dog which will run to exhaustion from start to finish - leaving nothing in the tank. For the Chukchi, who originally developed the breed, a dog with such an attitude would be a serious handicap in any team. What they needed (and what the breed should still be) were dogs which ran within themselves, always keeping something in reserve for emergencies (outrunning storms, chasing game). An exhausted team in a serious storm would have been too dangerous to contemplate. It is no surprise that many of the more successful (in terms of short distance sprint racing) bloodlines have a reputation for being hyper, whereas most Siberians will spend as much time as possible asleep, conserving energy while they can.

Mick


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

I must say that the standardisation of many working breeds have resulted in lost working ability. The BC and Aussie were very variable in looks before they became show dogs. Now they have to look a certain way, and breeders have bred for that look and working ability has come second. This is why English Shepherd breeders don't want KC recognition.


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## SamTHorn (Mar 10, 2010)

Luvdogs said:


> Here is mine...poor dogs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We have one just like that. Thanks for the posts.

Sam


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## SamTHorn (Mar 10, 2010)

Jess2308 said:


> Hi There,
> 
> Well after the recent thread where several posts mentioned the awful life show dogs have I thought it was time the PF members showed their poor oppressed dogs. And, to make it a bit different this time, lets see the dog in "show mode" being perfumed and preened as it were  And then in "normal dog mode" which of course, will have been staged cos no show dogs have normal lives :thumbup:
> 
> ...


Great picks. I especially love the gif at the end.

Thanks for sharing.

:thumbup:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Attack of the one star reviewer I see! Get a grip you sad person!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

sequeena said:


> Attack of the one star reviewer I see! Get a grip you sad person!


I had to go and have a nosy to see what on earth you were talking about 

Apparently - I've rated this thread - not sure what I missed or whether someone hacked my account 

I can only assume, if I did, I pressed the wrong button at some point.

You've got me intrigued now to find out how it actually works

ETA - I've just gone off to look at another thread to see exactly how you do it - and it would have been physically impossible for my finger to slip - extremely perplexed now as I know for a fact I haven't rated it - yet it has one rating which is clearly mine :scared: :scared:


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Apparently Ive rated it too, Im sure I would have remembered.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Attack of the one star reviewer I see! Get a grip you sad person!


you lost me there....


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

swarthy said:


> I had to go and have a nosy to see what on earth you were talking about
> 
> Apparently - I've rated this thread - not sure what I missed or whether someone hacked my account
> 
> ...


No worries I know there was a bug that let some people vote but wouldn't let others vote as they had 'already voted' which is probably still in affect.

However someone has to vote to start the stars off as they don't appear until someone does vote! My whelping thread has not been rated so there are no stars.

This usually happens on here. Some low life sneaks in and rates a thread with 1 star. I'm sure the OP will now go cry in a corner


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Oh. That star up there? I put my cursor over it and it says I already rated?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> Oh. That star up there? I put my cursor over it and it says I already rated?


It says I rated too. Mark said there was a bug which he obviously haven't fixed yet. If I remember correctly it was happening on all threads though but my thread hasn't been rated which means someone must have rated. Sad really.

The rating system needs to be gotten rid of imo.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Three guesses who gave it a one star rating...!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

sequeena said:


> It says I rated too. Mark said there was a bug which he obviously haven't fixed yet. If I remember correctly it was happening on all threads though but my thread hasn't been rated which means someone must have rated. Sad really.
> 
> The rating system needs to be gotten rid of imo.


How odd and yes I agree - I was having all sorts of horror thoughts and thinking maybe I had done something in my sleep :scared:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Three guesses who gave it a one star rating...!


I don't need 3 guesses! Will I win a prize? 



swarthy said:


> How odd and yes I agree - I was having all sorts of horror thoughts and thinking maybe I had done something in my sleep :scared:


:lol: If you're rating threads on PF in your sleep you have an addiction problem and need help :eek6:


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

Errrmmmm......this was meant to be for some gorgious doggies at shows and being normal doggies ONLY!!! 

What happened????


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

HarryHamster2 said:


> Errrmmmm......this was meant to be for some gorgious doggies at shows and being normal doggies ONLY!!!
> 
> What happened????


Apparently a 'discussion' happened.

It's quite common on PF :lol:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

sequeena said:


> I don't need 3 guesses! Will I win a prize?


You can have Maya :thumbup:

Little madam just chewed through my hairdryer cable for the third time  I dont know how she manages to get it off the shelf and out of the wardrobe


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> You can have Maya :thumbup:
> 
> Little madam just chewed through my hairdryer cable for the third time  I dont know how she manages to get it off the shelf and out of the wardrobe


Ok I'll swap Maya with Luna who has eaten through a Sky cable and an aerial cable :thumbup:


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

sequeena said:


> :lol: If you're rating threads on PF in your sleep you have an addiction problem and need help :eek6:


:lol: :lol: - I take quite strong antihistamines sometimes, and they give me the whackiest most vivid dreams - so 'real' nothing would surprise me


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

swarthy said:


> :lol: :lol: - I take quite strong antihistamines sometimes, and they give me the whackiest most vivid dreams - so 'real' nothing would surprise me


You better set up a video camera to record you when you sleep. Those dreams may just be real :lol:


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

sequeena said:


> You better set up a video camera to record you when you sleep. Those dreams may just be real :lol:


:lol: :lol: I might frighten myself so much I might not want to go to sleep any more


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

It says that i have already rated this thread i didnt realise that you could do this so certainly didnt. Its a shame that it became a discussion as i was really enjoying looking at all the lovely dogs having fun in and out of the show ring


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I keep clicking on this thread to see more piccies of happy dogs, why have people stopped posting them.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Well, i'd stopped posting cos it kinda takes the enjoyment out of the thread when people are so rude about the pics you post... But hey ho... 

Here ya go


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks Jess Ive had my happy dog fix for the day now, I love the one with your basenji and the cheese spread. Im going to take Henrick to a show tomorrow, just a fun one (waggiest tail etc) but I might be able to post my own pics tomorrow.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

I shall look forward to the pics, good luck!!

The cheese was a tip from the breeder to teach them to stand nicely on the table, Maya still goes crazy if i have a tube of primula cheese lol!!


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

here are some of my Oppressed show dogs having a swim in the smelly cow pond




























and just think two of these dogs have a show tomorrow lol lol


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Wow... that pond really does look smelly...lol!!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Jess, I just love the pic of the chocolate lab and the pug - that could be on a box of chocs it's soooo cute!


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## davehyde (Jul 13, 2009)

this is smelly so hard done by and dirty


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## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

See now this is better! Ty guys!

If you wanna have a convo take it off a thread that is for something thats nice I think is a better idea and start a new thread! Is that not a better thing to do? perhaps? If not Ill shut up!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

HarryHamster2 said:


> See now this is better! Ty guys!
> 
> If you wanna have a convo take it off a thread that is for something thats nice I think is a better idea and start a new thread! Is that not a better thing to do? perhaps? If not Ill shut up!


Good idea :thumbup: - perhaps one of the mods could slpit the thread, so we can have one thread with the pics on, and then another thread with all the discussion on? Then people can add to which ever they wish!


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

HarryHamster2 said:


> See now this is better! Ty guys!
> 
> If you wanna have a convo take it off a thread that is for something thats nice I think is a better idea and start a new thread! Is that not a better thing to do? perhaps? If not Ill shut up!


Well said :thumbup:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> Jess, I just love the pic of the chocolate lab and the pug - that could be on a box of chocs it's soooo cute!


I have a few cute lab/pug pics! 





































And cant forget basenji and lab cute pics:





































And i've posted these before, my darling Gracie. Very sadly missed


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

This seems to have just turned into a "post cute pics" thread now lol!! BUT, they are all show dogs so still almost relevant


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

Jess2308 said:


> Well, i'd stopped posting cos it kinda takes the enjoyment out of the thread when people are so rude about the pics you post... But hey ho...
> 
> Here ya go


I love all your Labs pic , you can never have enough Labs IMHO ....stunning happy dogs.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

You wana know what my friend's Opinion is on the idea show dog's are not happy?










Exactly


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## madferrit* (Sep 17, 2009)

WOW!!! what totally gorgeous dogs!! 

To all who've posted thankyou for sharing, to me <and i'm an ignoramous about showing and have no clue what is required,(!!!) ALL dogs in the pics look extremly happy,healthy and fit :thumbup:

Shown my son the pug pictures and he's one happy little boy(he ADORES pugs lol) he knows a happy dog when he sees one 

The sled pulling pics are amazing its good to see their contented faces 

There's nothing wrong in showing your amazing pets which you've put so much love and time into-you should be proud!


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

thedogsmother said:


> Thanks Jess Ive had my happy dog fix for the day now, I love the one with your basenji and the cheese spread. Im going to take Henrick to a show tomorrow, just a fun one (waggiest tail etc) but I might be able to post my own pics tomorrow.


No pics Im afraid, I was a wee bit occupied, although admitedly Henrick was a very happy show dog, he always enjoys dragging me all over the place after his girlfriend, he didnt win anything and he was very very naughty, I dont know how you show people do that week after week, I wanted to murder him.


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

thedogsmother said:


> No pics Im afraid, I was a wee bit occupied, although admitedly Henrick was a very happy show dog, he always enjoys dragging me all over the place after his girlfriend, he didnt win anything and he was very very naughty, I dont know how you show people do that week after week, I wanted to murder him.


LOL you gotta love em  oh i have days like that to, where you want to murder them (today being one of them ) i am sure we all do


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Luvdogs said:


> LOL you gotta love em  oh i have days like that to, where you want to murder them (today being one of them ) i am sure we all do


Good lord no, mine are born show trained!! Arent yours?? 

I wish.. :lol:


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

SOme more pics 










Archie at his first show, even time for a nap


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

Jess2308 said:


> Good lord no, mine are born show trained!! Arent yours??
> 
> Of course  NOT!!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Luvdogs said:


> SOme more pics
> 
> Archie at his first show, even time for a nap


Just look at that poor, unhappy dog! How could you be so cruel...


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

LOL.....yes he looks so unhappy having a snooze in my seat! it's a hard life!!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Luvdogs said:


> LOL.....yes he looks so unhappy having a snooze in my seat! it's a hard life!!


:lol:

Looks like you're the same as me... Take some nice comfy chairs to sit around the ring on, the dog ends up stealing that and you have to go find one of the awful, uncomfortable hard plastic chairs to actually sit on yourself  I think my lot are so spoilt at home they think its their RIGHT to steal my chair  I never have the heart to kick them off when they look so comfy though :lol:


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

Jess2308 said:


> :lol:
> 
> Looks like you're the same as me... Take some nice comfy chairs to sit around the ring on, the dog ends up stealing that and you have to go find one of the awful, uncomfortable hard plastic chairs to actually sit on yourself  I think my lot are so spoilt at home they think its their RIGHT to steal my chair  I never have the heart to kick them off when they look so comfy though :lol:


:lol: same here, at least i know he isn't getting up to any mischief even if he has stole my seat!!
Bonus on a cold day, my own personal mobile hot water bottle lol :thumbup:


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Jess2308 said:


> Good lord no, mine are born show trained!! Arent yours??
> 
> I wish.. :lol:


Henrick was a complete and utter bleep today, I take my hat off to you die hard show people but I dont think I'll be rushing to try it again.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Here are two videos - one of the bergies and Evie playing on holiday in Cornwall, and one of Gabby doing her lap of honour at National Working & Pastoral Champ Show (it's the Pastoral Group judging but best of breed in the import register can't be judged in the group, so they just do a lap of honour)

If you look at the demeanor of the dogs in both videos, it clearly shows how much Gabby enjoys being in the show ring.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

you show offs...make dog tired people like me jealous...(hubby snored all night long0 - take me to the show and let me have that seat... anyway every dog has his day? show day?
and honestly now one day ...when i am less sleepy ... I will show you...I have a dog dream - just cannot do it now -maybe those who cannot do the sour grapes thing? I would swap with Maya any day


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Last puppy show  But the second he got out the ring he was rolling around in the grass even though he had to go back in


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## SamTHorn (Mar 10, 2010)

swarthy said:


> Lovely pictures - Jess, you girl has grown into a lovely young lady
> 
> A couple of mine and their hard lives
> 
> ...


Thanks for the share. I want one of those chocolate colored one. Thanks again..

:thumbup:


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## pika (Apr 6, 2010)

Beautiful dog's guys, I spent a good 15min looking at all your pic's


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## Allana (Jul 7, 2010)

Lovely pictures everyone, particularly loved Raindogs huskies! 
All nine of them on the sofas, its a hard life!! :lol:


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## ndowell (Mar 19, 2010)

BIG :thumbup: for showing and even bigger :thumbup: for all these beautiful, happy, smiling dogs. Well done everyone and good luck in all your shows. Will look out for you at Crufts!!


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