# Any way to stop her?



## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Hi there everyone! I am sorry if this thread is in the wrong folder, please let me know if it's the case ^-^''

I have this 5 year old tortoiseshell she-cat I named Camille. Since a bit of time she is pulling out some of her fur for seemingly no reason.

I'l explain about her past in case it helps: 
Basically, she was basically abandoned and dumped at the age of 2 months (I think, not sure, could be a bit younger) and wasn't weaned. One of my mom's friends saved her into his barn, and I adopted her. We share that pretty strong bond, as she was my only friend when I was in primary school and is still my best friend. Then, she met our big spayed she-dog, Rockette, and they became pretty much friends... For a long time, at least, untill Camille reached the age of 2. Rockette broke one of her claws, and they got into their first fight ever. After that, it was nothing but a chain of meaningless fights, as Camille couldn't even stay in the same room as Rockette before debating herself free to attack. I know I'll sound stupid, but I was restraining her as she was yowling and debating herself free, but I got no injuries (Well, a few scratches). One day, I was at my wit's end, and I regret it as I didn't mean it. About a year later, she ran away from home and came back a week later, literally as thin as a celery. Well Camille has always been on the slim side (She's naturally slender), but you could feel her bones, which made me freak out. I seriously thought she fell pregnant as she fell into heat at the time, and took as much care as possible, even making the nest and ready to get supplies for the ''future kittens'' (She never has kittens). Of course I stopped my obsession when I realized she isn't pregnant, but I kept my care. A year later, again, our smaller neutered dog, Little Prince, got adopted. By our surprise, they got along wonderfully, and basically Camille is ''sharing'' the bond she once had with Rockette with him.

When it comes to her personality, she is a very, very shy she-cat, but she warms up quickly when she is around people I know, like my best friends. She really isn't the dominant type; She is overly submissive, to the very least (If its even possible to go overboard with being submissive). Since a year she is slowly being more social, which is good. 

Only a few months ago (She started doing this in December) she started to pull out her fur around the base of the tail. I never knew why she was doing this, and I still don't. I didn't see her pull out her pelt, so I couldn't really search the reason for her actions. Only a month ago she started to do it right in front of my face, attacking some of the back (still around the base of the tail), her belly and hind legs, and I have been helplessly tried her to stop without vet intervention (Touching her to snap her out of it, sprinkle some drops of water on her to surprise her and snap her out of it, even making some kind of shirt to stop her from liking her pelt (Which was too big anyway), and... That's pretty much it). Not she doesn't seem to go on the belly anymore, but she still pulls out her fur on the hind legs and back. I still don't know why she's like that. She grooms excessively too, almost all day, even when I'm going to sleep (She always sleeps with me at my bed), and I have to hush her for her to finally stop, or at least gain her attention, but back to licking she goes.

In case it helps, she eats some Fancy Feast (The one with salmon, the one with shrimp and the one with turkey, I think). I know, not the best choice, but I try to get the best food possible in the stores (Most of food I see is Friskies, Whiskas and many other dry foods anyway), and saw a FF bundle that didn't include any wheats, corn, etc., so it's my best choice so far. If there's any other foods that are better, please let me know.
Nothing has really changed in her routine (Other than me doing laundry, the dishes and other stuff like that recently, snd school going to end soon). Little Prince and Rockette aren't doing anything to her. Maybe it's something like... I don't know, a cat form of PTSD, due to her past?

Is there anything we can do to at least soothe her down if we really need to take her to a vet? I hate to see her like that; In fact I caught her on action (and snapped her out of it) five times today, and she probably did it more often while I'm at school. There's the whole room of mine, covered of my scent in order to cope with some of her separation anxiety if she has any (she is often at the basement, inside my room, anyway).

I'm sorry if this thread is very long or has any unnecessary information. ^-^''


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## Citrineblue (Sep 28, 2012)

So sorry to hear of your problems, my cats havent had this issue however

Could you take your cat for examination by the vet first to ensure she hasn't got a more serious skin issue, and please don't be offended, ie fleas creating an allergic reaction, ringworm, mange etc.

Once those things have been ruled out then indeed diet and behaviour could be the issue. Quite rightly you've looked at removing those foods with grains and cereals both of which can create reactions in upset stomachs and skin issues. Further on if you think it is a reaction to a particular food ie beef and chicken being the greatest offenders an elimination diet is recommended. There are many people on this site than have done this and can recommend foods. If the issue is solely dry dandruffy skin then an additional supplement having a rich source of balanced omega oils could help ie salmon and krill are rich in these and you can also look at adding a regular extra mackerel/ sardine meal.

Behaviourally you have definately been working at distraction and the Dabird feather wands, Neko flies, and flying frenzy rods are good for this and a good bit of exercise. You could add to this plug in Feliway and Pet remedy diffusers, both have a different formula so one size does not fit all. These are supposed to calm and relax cats within the home. Zyklene is a capsuled natural powder which can be added to the diet and again calms the individual. Another product is Calmex which is a liquid dropper. The diffusers and zyklene can be used all the time Calmex I'm not sure. They may break the cycle though.

Specific cereal and grain free foods can be recommended by others although I believe Vet Concept are tinned single source protein cans. However your first port of call must be the vet I believe.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Thank you for your reply!

I'll get her to have a checkup then, I'll talk about it to my parents after I'll be home from school, and we'l do our best to stop her in those ways then. I really hope it isn't anything too severe and that she got this as a habit since she did this since a good while.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I agree with Citrineblue, it is best to take your cat to the vet for advice on this problem, so various causes can be investigated.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Alright, I talked to my parents about my cat, and they're going to call the vet tomorrow since it's closed today. I'll let you know for any further updates


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Alright, my parents still ahvn't called the vet. Mom keeps to somehow ''forget' it (And once literally said ''I can't pay 100$ for Camille's checkup'' as i it isn't important), while dad can't since he's working (He's supposed to come back soon). I guess the only solution is to save up for a checkup while refraining her behavior... :/


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Hi GK 
When I read your initial post my first thought was - is she spayed? If not, this should be the very first thing you should get done, regardless of costs. 
The reason I ask is that she may well be very stressed and unhappy because she wants to mate, it's her hormones and not her fault, getting her spayed will make her much happier and healthier.
In the UK there are often schemes where you can get low cost neutering done with an animal charity - Does this also exist where you are? (USA?)


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

We have thought several times about spaying her but we are way too scared about her becomming aggressive or anything. I honestly don't know the advantages are disadvantages (if there is) of spaying Camille, so I don't touch the subject unless I know more.

I don't know if there is any charity like that in Canada (I'm in New-Brunswick), but if we'll spay Camille I search for any charity that could help us


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Honestly, it's a very safe procedure and carries little risk compared to the various horrible things Camille could go through as an entire female. I've never heard of spaying causing any change in behaviour for the worse, especially not becoming aggressive.
Please consider it? I found this nice easy to read and informative web page, take a look:
http://www.catrescuenetwork.org/benefits-to-spaying-your-cat.html


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

GoldenKinectic said:


> We have thought several times about spaying her but we are way too scared about her becomming aggressive or anything. I honestly don't know the advantages are disadvantages (if there is) of spaying Camille, so I don't touch the subject unless I know more.
> 
> I don't know if there is any charity like that in Canada (I'm in New-Brunswick), but if we'll spay Camille I search for any charity that could help us


Leaving a cat to keep coming into heat over and over without getting mated is a very unkind thing to do, and can certainly lead to stress related behaviour such as pulling out her fur. You are also putting your unspayed cat at risk of getting a very serious womb infection called Pyometra.

There are no "disadvantages" to having her spayed, only advantages. Contrary to what you fear, spaying does NOT cause cats to become aggressive, quite the opposite, as they are no longer at the mercy of their hormones.

I am amazed your vet hasn't long since advised having Camille spayed! I can't imagine any vet in Canada approving of leaving a female cat unspayed if she isn't a pedigree cat you are breeding from.

As Moggie14 has said, if your parents can't afford the vet fee for the spaying operation, they should contact one of the animal welfare charities to get help with the fees, or a cat charity to see if they will give you vouchers for a free spaying.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Hiya @chillminx - sorry I think we cross posted xx


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

It would surprise me that mom would get Camille a vet checkup anyway, if she doesn't even want my cat to get a checkup (which is what I think she wants to be honest) I would be shocked if she would accept me to demand about spaying her.

So far I havn't seenany charity yet, I'll dig deeper untill I'll eventually find one


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Alright... Now we are fostering two new ducklings since their mother got killed by a car, but now Camille is acting very... Maternal to them, should I say. As soon as the ducklings cry, she rushes to them, licks them, etc. and does her best to make them calm down. She shows her belly and tries to make the ducklings cuddle her belly... Yeah, you get the point.
Is it because she isn't spayed yet? I still keep a very wary eye on her in case she does anything wrong.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

GoldenKinectic said:


> Alright... Now we are fostering two new ducklings since their mother got killed by a car, but now Camille is acting very... Maternal to them, should I say. As soon as the ducklings cry, she rushes to them, licks them, etc. and does her best to make them calm down. She shows her belly and tries to make the ducklings cuddle her belly... Yeah, you get the point.
> Is it because she isn't spayed yet? I still keep a very wary eye on her in case she does anything wrong.


Camille's behaviour is due not just to the fact she isn't spayed, but due to the hormones she is producing because she is in heat which are making her very maternal. It is not uncommon for cats to mother the babies of other species, even species they would normally prey on. But here's the thing - if Camille is in heat (as I suspect) then she is likely to mate with the first un-neutered tom cat that comes along, then she will get pregnant and have kittens!  As she is evidently an outdoor cat I am amazed she hasn't had several litters of kittens already. ?

You certainly don't want Camille getting pregnant, as then your parents would have the expense of raising her kittens until the age of 10 weeks and then finding good homes for them all. To do any less than that would be very irresponsible.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

IDK if Camille is in heat right now, but she responds often to high-pitched noises. She always has, and I find it weird and somewhat adorable to see her try to mother the ducks X'DD
But I still can't trust her around them for now since they are still freshly in our home, and she hasn't met any ducks in her lifetime.

I think I got you confused... XD 
She's an indoor cat and has met two very young toms, but she never ever wanted to mate with them, let alone see them. she is VERY antisocial towards cats, even when in heat.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Whilst I do think it's lovely that your family are willing to help orphaned ducklings.... I cannot help but think that your mother should think about the pets you already have with regards to money available. If money is short then the priority should be spending it on getting Camille spayed not taking on more responsibilities.
Sorry to be negative but that is my feeling. Why not give the ducklings to a wildlife rescue?


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

I understand your feeling, in some way i feel like that too. 
We don't know any wildlife rescue groups, but my dad is willing to search for some of he is given the chance.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Alright, mom told me about a wildlife rescue group, but it is horrible; It would literally leave few weeks old duckings to die and be snatched by eagles. But luckily, in 2 days there is a guy that my parernts know about that is willing to adopt them.

However, Camille also begun to act somewhat over-protective, as she started to hiss yesterday at someone she knew, and tonight she hissed for the second time to one of my dogs. She even tried to bring the babies on y bed and I had to ban her out of my room for the nighté Now she's allowed in my bead again, but I don't let her interact with the babies anymore.
When will her obsession go away, once the duckings will be gone? A few weeks perhaps? I hate to see her like that.
Oh, and we'll be spaying her as soon as possible


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

You have made my day!! So pleased to hear Camille will be spayed - believe me, she will be so much happier :Happy
I guess she is mothering the ducklings - she will soon forget about them once they leave.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Indeed! I really wish that Camille will be free from the control of her hormones and be more social. 

I hope that's the case... I'm scared about her becomming maternal-aggressive... But there's only today left, and tommorow the guy will adopt the baby.
I say baby sincce the other died of hypothermia. :'(


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Perhaps Camille knew one of the ducklings was sick.... might be why she is being so attentive perhaps? x


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Hi GK  I was wondering how Camille was now the duckling has left x


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Sorry for the old reply, life got in the way ^-^''

Maybe it was the case, that Camille knew that one of the babies was sick...

Camille is doing pretty good now, but she still tries to pull out her fur (She still did it when she was ''raising'' the ducklings). Is there anything that I can put on her fur so that she stops licking and pulling? It's litterally what she does most of the day; Lick lick lick. Again she did it before, while an after the ducklings were with us.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I assume Camille has been spayed now? It will take a few weeks for her hormone levels to decrease then you should see her become less anxious, and hopefully she should stop over grooming due to stress. 

If you put anything on her fur it will encourage her to wash herself even more than she already is. Cats hate stuff on their fur, it makes them feel unclean.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Well she still isn't spayed, but don't get mad a me for this; I'm still trying to convince my mom to call the vet so that we can have a visit and hopefully spay this cat, but again she keeps somehow to forget it.

Alright, so I'll just stop her by distracting her or something?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

If she still isn't spayed hun, then you cannot expect anything to have changed in her behaviour!  You need to keep reminding your mom that Camille is unlikely to stop over-grooming until she has been spayed, as she is undoubtedly very stressed by keep coming into heat constantly and not being mated.

It is not natural for a female cat to keep coming into heat and not being mated. Apart from being very unkind to her, it is also dangerous as she could get a nasty womb infection called Pyometra which unspayed females get when they are not mated. Cats can die from untreated Pyometra. 

There is no better advice anyone can give you right now than getting your cat spayed. Please keep asking your mom for this to be arranged a.s.a.p. for the sake of your poor cat.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Alright, we'll be having a meetup with the vet Monday at 1:00 PM, still no spaying yet; Mom actually doesn't think that spaying will change her behavior. I really want to prove her that she needs to be spayed, and i'm sure the vet wll recommend this for us. 
We talked about this yesterday, and mom said ''I cannot spend over 300$ for your cat''. I replyed ''...What if we spay her...?'' Pause...... She answered ''I don't think it will change anything (about Camille)''. 

Yikes! Sounds terrible for an infection. D:
Do you know any symptoms? Not eating, etc?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

GK hun, which country are you living in? $300 is a lot of money - USA, Canada, and Australia all have charities that give vouchers to pay the vet for reduced cost or free spaying and neutering. If you don;t want to say on this thread where you are, please send me a private message, (click the envelope in the top right hand corner of the screen) and I will investigate for you which charities might help your mom with spaying costs.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Cats can also get a form of hormone related dermatitis when they are left unspayed so i really hope the vet manages to convince your mum to go for the op


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@GoldenKinectic - I have PMd you with details of a clinic which may be able to help with low cost spaying.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

I forgot to update the whole thing now! Sorry 

Alright, we got to the vet today at 1:30 PM; Camille is in great health but is suspected to either have an allergy of fleas/some foods (Chicken, beef, etc.) or to have an hormonal debalancement.The vet gave us a 2 kg dry food called Royal Canin (Hypoallergenic vet-recommended version) and two treatments; An all-in-one treatment against fleas, worms, heart worms, ear mites, etc. And the second treatment is your average worm treatment. The whole thing costed 150$CAN, including the visit. Mom complained a bit about the price but hey, better that then let my cat suffer...
Mom also introduced my cat to a batch of 7 kittens, and she hissed 3 times and growled twice. Even then, mom still tried to make her interact with the kittens. She then complained about how Camille was anti-social (She is, again, naturally shy and reserved), but it's like making a kid interact with a batch of young strangers. OF COURSE it will be nervous. But mom still doesnt get it, and assumes that as long as I'm here that she's a perfect little angel.
Once I put the all-in-one treatment on Camille's neck, mom insisted on putting the treatment while I restrained the cat, and I litterally told her I am better by mysef sinceit's my cat and not hers. No, she still stayed around me to check I did the treatment right just in case something went wrong while I knew what to do. (Worst thing is that I knew how to put the treatment onand not her, and yet she tries to butt in. )

Mom's pretty much a hard-head and will insist on doing something unless you insist yourself to stop. It really annoys me.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Oh, and about the spaying; For the hospitalization, surgery, collar and painkillers, we would be paying about 200$CAN, and our vet recommended it (Of course!). Mom is talking with dad about the vet costs as I type.
We still didn't spay Camille obviously, but even the vet recommended this to mom and she was still hesitant about it. Come on mom! -.-''


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks for the update! You are doing so well with your mom, it sounds like she will come around to the spaying idea x


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Yeah, sometimes I try to flat out avoid her to avoid additionnal drama, or to avoid stres for both me and Camile.

Oh, and I have great news; I've been confirmed that we will finally spay Camille!
...In a month. :c
I hope she won't get in heat or anything due to the cost... :/


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

*coming back on the topic really quick*
Hey guys... Something terrible happened today.
I was chilling with one of my frends, watching slow-motion videos, and then Camille started to randomly attack her. Not the playful kind of attack, the AGRESSIVE one.
She aimed for my friend's face, and she pulled out Camille's claws from her face in some sort of wa, like removing a hooky (She learned some self-defense techniques against animal aggression), but what I did was aim for Camille's scruff, and I pinned her on my bed untill she stopped to move. Once I lifted her to start scolding her, she left out a big puddle of piss on the floor, and she was yowling (I assume it's due to me scaring her). After 30 seconds of intense scolding (I was screaming at her) I eventually put her in a part of the basement, although a little violently, and stared her down untill she became quiet. hTen, about 5 minutes later I eventually calmed down, and started to clean her up as she drew quite a bit of blood (She had some on the neck, onone of the back paws and on the shoulder), and I noticed that she had a broken back claw. My friend has four minor puncture wounds, barey noticeable, and I (I have counted) have had 16 inuries on my hands, most of them scratches, with three being deep enough to draw blood (One of them is about 5 inches long, and goes from the back of my hand to about at least 5 cm to my elbow). Trough the day my friend didn't even dare to look at her again.
Now I'm still pissed at my cat and basically shoo her off when she tries to approach me, or licks me to show affection, like when she goes on ly lap, I push her away while telling her to get off. I also noticed that she looked rather apologetic about an hour ater the attack, and hesitated to approach me at times since she knew I was really, really mad at her. When I would look at ter in the eyes, she would slowly back off while looking apologetic, as I looked at her with that''get out of my face or I'll kill you'' sort of stare, which I really didn't mean to do..

Why was she like that, and how can I forgive her tonight? I heard that cats like this have developped a brain tumor or another terrible condition.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Honestly, I don't know why Camille has done this. Someone else may come along soon with a reason. It's highly unlikely to be a brain tumour so don't worry about that.
It's most likely to be raging hormones!
Either way, you must forgive her and move on. I believe you know your reaction was wrong, cats don't understand punishment and she will be feeling confused.
Please just give her a fuss so she knows you still love her.
Is there any way the spaying can be done sooner? x


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I don't know why Camille attacked your friend suddenly and out of character like that. Does your friend have cats of her own? If so perhaps Camille smelled the scent of them on your friend and felt her territory was being invaded. As moggie14 has said as Camille has not been spayed yet, and is an entire queen this could certainly account for her behaviour.


I also agree that Camille will have no idea why you are being angry and mean to her. All you are doing is scaring her, and making her frightened to come near you. It is very unkind and wrong, please stop. Animals are not like humans, they don't ever learn by you being mean with them.


You cannot blame her for her behaviour, you need to try and understand why she behaved as she did. In her case it is likely to be because she needs spaying. It is not kind or wise to leave it any longer.


Did your mom follow up on the low cost spaying clinic whose address I sent you a few weeks ago? I understand that clinic is quite a distance from you but there may be one nearer you. I am sure they wouldn't make you wait a month, they are doing spay operations every day. I'm afraid I don't understand the delay! It has now become urgent to get Camille spayed
a.s.a.p.


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## GoldenKinectic (Jun 9, 2015)

Thak you so much for the answers. ;w;

To answer to your quesitons chillminx, no, my mom didn't follow up on the spaying clinic since she says that we aren't taht poor and that t's too far, yet she complains about the spaying cost. I'm sure she litterally forgot about spaying her, an dad is really busy so he can rarely remind her. I'm sure sshe actually doesn't want to spay her.


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