# Using jingler bells for heel and other training



## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Ok, so I found this site which recommends using "jingler bells" (essentially just bells which you attach to the dog's lead) to condition a no-reward marker (like the opposite of a clicker). Training A Dog To Walk To Heel and Stop Lead Pulling Fast

However, I can't work out whether the site is evidence based or not? In some places it comes across as a little ranty, and in some places the advice seems to be a tad scare-mongering, and some of the wording is badly edited, however to a newbie the method for training heels looks worth a shot. This isn't a training method I'd heard of before, so I was wondering if it was particularly old/now frowned upon?

I'm considering trying their method, since on walks my puppy is too distracted to eat if I try and clicker train heel (no matter how good the treats are). He's compelled to pull and sniff every blade of grass. At the moment I have sort of given up on just using a clicker to train heel (unless he's slightly hungry) in favour of gently turning around and going back the other way when he pulls. Sometimes I do this in combination with a clicker for when he is at my heel, if he's hungry enough. Just stopping when he pulls doesn't work, since he sits down, then I edge forward, then he gets up and lead plunges. Likewise, walking backwards when he pulls doesn't work either. Even though he's a small dog, his lead pulling is a real issue for me since he's surprisingly strong and I'm under 5 foot.

Is it considered "wrong" these days to give a dog a no-reward marker other than a verbal one? The jingler bells aren't used to actively punish the dog or to stun the dog into not doing something, however I realize these days it is incredibly un-PC to chastise your dog in any form (which is of course a good thing; I don't wish to hit my dog and I don't wish to see other people hitting their dogs, but I guess bells could be the tame end of the same category).


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I would not use the jingler personally. As far as I can tell (after many weird rants from its inventor on various forums) it works in the same sort of way as training discs using sound aversion to stop a behaviour. For some dogs it may work just fine and there may be no real fall out from using sound aversion. For other dogs you could well be setting yourself and your dog up for a lot of problems. Some dogs are EXTREMELY sound sensitive and using something like this with one of those could actually be worse than a physical correction. And once a dog becomes bothered by one sound it often seems to develop problems with other sounds for some reason. For others, like my current dog, it's quite possible it would have absolutely zero effect other than for the dog to want to investigate the sound (and steal the source of it if possible  ). The problem is, you don't actually know until you try it just how aversive the dog will find the sound.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Another pointless gimmick, 

Remember

There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs..........


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

Hmmm...'jingler bells' eh.....quite inspirational, I feel inspred to make little video.....:thumbsup:


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

The inventor of the jingler bells doesn't have a very good reputation among reputable, modern dog trainers.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2013)

Lizz1155 said:


> Ok, so I found this site which recommends using "jingler bells" (essentially just bells which you attach to the dog's lead) to condition a no-reward marker (like the opposite of a clicker). Training A Dog To Walk To Heel and Stop Lead Pulling Fast
> 
> However, I can't work out whether the site is evidence based or not? In some places it comes across as a little ranty, and in some places the advice seems to be a tad scare-mongering, and some of the wording is badly edited, however to a newbie the method for training heels looks worth a shot. This isn't a training method I'd heard of before, so I was wondering if it was particularly old/now frowned upon?
> 
> ...


How are you using the clicker to train heel?
Do you have a strong attention cue (usually the dog's name), where the dog will whip his head around if he hears it?


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## Riff Raff (Feb 12, 2013)

Teaching loose leash walking (which I assume is what you want OP, not true attention heelwork as seen in the obedience ring?) is tough. There are several reasons why this is the case:

1) Loose leash walking is usually a long duration behaviour that is not inherently reinforcing or natural for a dog.

2) We tend to try to teach LLW in a very high distraction setting

3) People often have a problem defining clear criteria for what they want the finished behaviour to look like. If you can't clearly define it, you are going to confuse the dog.

4) People are very inconsistent typically when training LLW. One minute they are stopping every time the dogs leash tightens, the next, they are in a hurry and really not in the mood and just need to get home on time for work etc etc. This means dogs tend to get intermittently reinforced for pulling.

How to address these points?

1) You have to find a way to make LLW reinforcing for the dog. Train only a few steps at a time and don't expect long duration before the dog has mastered the behaviour. 

2) Teach the behaviour first in a lower distraction setting - ie your lounge, your back garden, a quiet field with no other dogs or people around etc.

3) Define your criteria before you start training and stick to them.

4) This is the really tricky one. If you have situations where you absolutely can't be in training mode and you know you are going to allow your dog to pull, consider changing the equipment so your dog can differentiate. 


Personally I don't see much benefit in the bells, rather sign up to a good group training class and get some hands on advice on training technique as well as an opportunity to practice in a controlled environment.


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

ouesi said:


> How are you using the clicker to train heel?
> Do you have a strong attention cue (usually the dog's name), where the dog will whip his head around if he hears it?


Well initally I was clicking and treating when he was at my left hand side, and trying to steer him back to my LHS (click and treat) when he went ahead. However he finds walks incredibly distracting and I pretty much lose his attention the moment he walks through the front door - no matter how amazing the treats in my pocket are.

Then I tried using the Victoria Schade advice (from "bonding with your dog") of clicking and treating anything which isn't a tight lead, giving the treat in an approximate heel position . (Then you're meant to gradually increase the required criteria so that the dog is only clicked for heeling). The dog ended up pretty full, lost interest in the treats and was still pulling.

He doesn't have a strong attention cue, his attention is pretty much zero outside the front of the house. I'm working on using his name as an attention cue (and training this in a non-distracting environment), since this does seem pretty critical for a nice walk...


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

BoredomBusters said:


> The inventor of the jingler bells doesn't have a very good reputation among reputable, modern dog trainers.


I did wonder whether this was the case. What should I have looked for to notice that he wasn't very reputable? I couldn't see anything dominance-theory based on the site, but he is claiming that you need his specific dog collars, leads etc...


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Riff Raff said:


> Teaching loose leash walking (which I assume is what you want OP, not true attention heelwork as seen in the obedience ring?) is tough. There are several reasons why this is the case:
> 
> 1) Loose leash walking is usually a long duration behaviour that is not inherently reinforcing or natural for a dog.
> 
> ...


Yup, I did mean LLW rather than a obedience-competition style heel . At the moment I'm wondering whether to train the "heel" cue as a sit-position, then move on to walking with it (a technique which I found on the schutzhund site, since I was a bit out-of-ideas and started googling. Although it does seem a bit extreme to have to use schutzhund advice to train a Cav x toy poodle). He's in puppy-classes atm, so most of the class is spent attempting to keep the pup's well-mannered to each other, rather than training them per-se .


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2013)

Lizz1155 said:


> He doesn't have a strong attention cue, *his attention is pretty much zero outside the front of the house.* I'm working on using his name as an attention cue (and training this in a non-distracting environment), since this does seem pretty critical for a nice walk...


Then this is where you start. If he's not paying you any attention close to the house, it's not going to get any better as you get around more distractions.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

He is the weirdest trainer I've ever seen


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