# Have my chinchillas been fighting?



## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I have a 4 year old chinchilla and a month ago I bought her a baby for company. After a few initial squabbles they're now happy as a clam together from what I can see and hear. However tonight I noticed the baby suddenly has a tiny bald spot below one eye and around the base of her whiskers on either side. The skin is clean, smooth and pink and I am 110% certain it wasn't there at 11am this morning as I'd have noticed it instantly. She obviously hasn't chewed it out herself but could the older one have gone a bit extreme with grooming? Or is it slipped fur from a scuffle? I'm concerned it's a fungus but surely it wouldn't appear that quick, and my other one is fine. I'm afraid they've already had a dustbath and they share it so it's too late to do anything about that, other than replace the dust. I will take her to the vet if needed but I'd like to avoid it if possible as she's still settling down and I don't want to stress her out unnecessarily.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Do you have a picture?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Yes, but I need to work out how to put them in a post .This morning I've had a really good look and she has quite a patch of missing fur all around her whiskers and under her jaw too. The skin is pinkish and a bit flakey and her whiskers are a bit spindly looking. The rest of her fur is perfect as is her companion.I know in the US they put Tinactin in the dustbath however they don't seem to sell it over here unless you pay around £60, and I can't find a UK equivalent. I'll try and put some photos up.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

It does sound like it could be ringworm ie fungus. You can use scholl athletes foot powder in the dust bath and apply directly to the affected areas. It will look worse before it gets better and can take upto 6 weeks before you see marked improvement (although its often much sooner, 2-3 weeks, where you stop seeing new areas and the skin looks better). 
Throw away all wooden items as the spores can live in it. Thoroughly disinfect the cage and other items, do this regularly throughout treatment. As they've both been exposed and living together treat both, it won't hurt the other even if she doesn't get it.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you very much Arny. I have now been to Boots and got some of that, how much do I put in the bath? Also if I put it on the chin herself, will it harm the other if she licks or eats at it?

I can't figure out how to put pictures on here but I've loaded them to a photo site, they should come up if you click the links.

https://ibb.co/ieDdh7
https://ibb.co/eoxAvS
https://ibb.co/nktuN7
https://ibb.co/hbK127
https://ibb.co/kAWs9n

They aren't great as I didn't like to put the flash on so close to her eyes but they're pretty accurate of how it looks.

I will wash and disinfect the cage, fleeces, bowls and bath box, however the wood is more of a problem. Their home is a converted shed with a smaller cage inside which they have free range of so throwing it out isn't possible. I can possibly wash it down and put the dehumidifier in there to clean the air but actually getting rid isn't doable as I'm not really in a position to buy another shed for the time being.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

That definitely looks like ringworm. And along with recently getting her, stress often lowers the immune system enough for it to pop up, it would fit.
You want a good amount in the dust, 2 tablespoons or so and dust daily. Honestly I don't know about the safety if eaten, I've never seen it mentioned. 

Ah that is more tricky. Perhaps you could keep them in their smaller cage till it clears up and that allows you to continually disinfect the shed too? I know many breeders keep their chins in converted sheds and have undoubtedly encountered ringworm so hopefully it will be less of an issue if kept from direct contact with the wood till it clears.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you, I've now bathed her so will see if any improvement starts though I'm aware it might take a good few sessions to see any real difference. One thing I forgot to ask is does the dust need to be new for each bath or can it be reused? As if it needs to be fresh each time I'll have used up the box and pot of powder in days which seems a bit excessive!

I've also found a tube of Boots athlete's foot cream in the cupboard, would it be safe to put it on the infected chin if I put her in the cage alone until it's absorbed in?


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

I would change the dust and wash the bath each week, replenishing a bit of powder every few days. The powder should be killing the spores in the dust too but as it starts to get better you'll want to limit the chance of reinfection even more.

Re the cream, it might take it awhile to absorb from the fur so I don't know on that one. I think applying the powder direct and leaving separate till its mostly gone would be safer as after all it'll be in her fur from the bath and I've never seen anyone mention safety of chins ingesting it, sorry I can't be more help there. 

It will look worse before it gets better, often the patches of fur loss grow but then the skin starts to look more healthy till you eventually notice fur regrowth.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Don't be sorry, you have been tons of help, I've never had to deal with fungus before and I am extremely grateful for your advice. I have started going through everything bit by bit, thrown out a wooden house, chew blocks and some other toys so far and I think I've found the root of the problem. A tiny spot in a corner that had grown a blob of white mould fluff, possibly the result of the terrible weather we've had. 

I've brushed it out for now but tomorrow I'll take everything out and wash the whole space down with bleach. I don't know how it's even grown as I keep the place spotless! I'm seriously considering getting a metal shed when I've saved a little, only thing that's putting me off is they don't look very sturdy and we get some awful gales in winter.

I left the cream and opted for dabbing on the powder with a cotton earbud instead only it didn't work as she kept trying to eat the stick. So I just put some on my fingertips instead and patted it in. That did work but I hope I don't catch it off her!


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

You're welcome, hopefully it clears quickly.

As long as you're currently healthy hand washing should be enough not to get it. 
Good luck


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I've had a look at it this morning and applied more powder and it's looking slightly less pink than it was. My friend has given me some food grade Diatemacious Earth she uses in her wooden chicken pens and she says it works brilliantly. Is it safe to use around chinchillas? I was going to brush it into the grain of the beams and such but I can't guarantee they won't eat any stray bits.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

As long as it is food grade its safe for chins too.
I'm not sure about its effectiveness with ringworm though, more kills mites/fleas etc.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Yes it's definitely food grade, as she only buys that one so it's safe to eat the chicken eggs or something. I'll sprinkle a bit on the wood to try it if it won't do any harm.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I think it's looking a bit better. It's less pink at least, although I'm not sure if she's lost a little more hair. How long should I give it to work before taking her for a skin scrape at the vets? 

I've thrown out all their wooden houses and chews toys and for now put them in the cage with only bare essentials and a couple of disposable cardboard containers. They aren't very happy but I'm concerned about buying new stuff until I know it 's safe. The same with the shed, which I've discovered now needs replacing altogether, how long should I wait to get another one? As I don't want to buy all new items and end up with the same problem, it's going to cost enough to fix everything once!


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

You should expect a bit of hair loss before it gets better but there should be a marked improvement with the skin in 2-3 weeks. 

I wouldn't replace items till you see hair regrowth which could be as long as 6-8 weeks, it can be a slow process.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Ok, thank you. I take it once there's new hair growth showing the fungus is completely gone? Would it be a good idea to put a spoonful of powder in the bath on a regular basis to prevent any reoccurance or is too much harmful?

I managed to get a new ex-display shed this afternoon for a knock-down price too. I hadn't planned on buying one yet but needs must! Hopefully by the time it's delivered in a couple of weeks she'll be looking better and the new clean wood will help. Do you happen to know if it would be safe to Cuprinol the inside of it, or if not, is there a safe alternative I could use to treat and preserve the wood? They won't be able to chew it because I intend to put metal corner beading on all the bracing beams.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Yes when the hair starts to come back and no new patches appear it'll be gone. I don't fully understand the workings of ringworm but I think the chin can harbour it and it can reappear anytime the immune system is suppressed. You can use it as a preventative, once a month should be plenty or if/when you bring new animals in.

They can chew flat surfaces so if there's any possibility of them reaching it I wouldn't treat any of the wood. It might be a good idea to get thin metal and attach it up to where you think they can't reach, easier to do if they only have access to the floor of the shed and don't have ledges etc attached further up?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I will get another picture tomorrow but I do think it's starting to look better, it seems less noticeable somehow, which I can only put down to the skin being less pink. I'm powdering her three times a day, once in the bath and twice by applying it direct as I'm hoping the frequency will help it heal quicker. I'm still puzzled as to why the other chin is fine despite them being cuddled up in the same cage, and the only thing I can think of is she's older so got a stronger system than the baby.

I've now got another issue though.Having thrown out all the wooden things and not replacing them until it's clear to do so, I've realised it leaves nothing to chew on. I've ordered a packet of wood chew sticks and bark strips which I know are no real substitute for proper wooden chew toys, but will they do as a temporary measure? I really don't want to get one problem sorted only to have another start wilth their teeth!

I won't Cuprinol it then, I think I'll just put wood oil on it instead to seal it and make it waterproof. They will be able to get further up than the floor by the time it's all done so I'll have to have a think on the best way to deal with that.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

That's good.
Probably stronger immune system and I think we don't realise just how stressful moving home can be for some too and so lowering the baby's.

They will be fine without chews for the time being (hay and pellets do most of the beneficial grinding of teeth as they get the molars) or if you want to provide something chop up a untreated kiln dried pine 4x4 or 4x2 as its something cheap that can be thrown and replaced frequently.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Try giving apple/pear/hazel/willow sticks as safe chew items. All these are available from either [email protected] or can be ordered online.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you Tiggers, a mix of those are actually what I've ordered so should keep them happy for now.

That's good to know Arny, something less to worry about at least as they will happily eat plenty of hay. Here are some photos from this morning after 5 days of treatment :

https://ibb.co/cSFJ9n
https://ibb.co/g6KpFS
https://ibb.co/b14WvS
https://ibb.co/nKKyaS

Ignore the pinkness, the skin is no longer visibly pink as the last two images show, I think that it's a combination of the lighting and the poor quality phone camera I'm using to get close up to her face that's making it look that way. The flakiness has reduced too, but the whiskers have bits of white on them as if droplets of paint have splattered on them. Is this normal?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Hope your chins enjoy their sticks. Keep us posted as to their recovery TabulaRasa.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Well the skin is starting to look better, it's lost/losing those crusty flaky pieces and it's now a sort of white dandruff-y dust instead (although it might be residue of the powder). She's lost a bit more hair right above her nose unfortunately, but thankfully it doesn't appear to be affecting anywhere else.

What I wondered is if it's possible to over-powder them? I only bought it last Monday and it's nearly empty already. Some does end up on the floor as it's difficult to hold and apply at the same time, and I've knocked the pot over a few times which spilt a fair bit, but I'm still wondering if that's excessive usage? Will too much cause any harm? A pot a week for the next 5 weeks just sounds a lot!


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

It's better to add about a tablespoon full to their sand bath and let them bathe in it for about 15 minutes every other day. This should be sufficient to clear up any residual spores.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Is it normal for the patchy parts to feel sort of raised and bumpy like a scab? I noticed tonight that when I pat the powder in the skin doesn't feel smooth. 

Also, a friend of mine whose well up on her flower knowledge has told me that Flowers Of Sulphur is great for ringworm as it has antifungal properties. She also said it's safe for animals as it's used on horses. Would it be safe to use on a chinchilla who might eat bits of it though?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I would not chance it. What is safe for horses is not safe for chins. Stick with allowing your chins to bathe in what your are already using.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

I don't have any experience with that. Many have good results with the foot powder, you just need patience as like I said could be upto 2 months before everything's back to normal.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I wasn't sure either, I'd never even heard of it until she mentioned it. I'll stick to the powder as it does seem to be working gradually. By the way, am I supposed to mix it right into the bath dust? As I've been putting it on top of it so that it gives a good covering when it's rolled in but I'm starting to wonder if that's too much along with applying it directly as well.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

I mix some and sprinkle some on top but I doubt it matters


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I've gone to treat her this morning and now she's got the same thing by her ears. This wasn't there last night. As it's appeared while I've been powdering her does this mean it's stopped working or isn't strong enough? I'm worried because it seemed to be only around her nose and now it's spread despite three lots of daily treatment. It's even got the same lumpy crusty look not just hair loss.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

By this point I would be phoning the vets to find out if the issue is fungal. bacterial or over grooming.
It doesn't look like ringworm to me and as you have been treating it for over a week with no real improvement it is best that you find out what you are treating for.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

If you don't don't think it looks like ringworm do you have any idea of what it does look like instead? I'm even more confused as to how the other hasn't got a single issue despite living in the same cage. I will try and get some really clear pictures, it's sunny here so they should come up well enough without the flash.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Here are the clearest pictures I could get, these are taken with a proper camera, the colour is accurate and I got somebody's help to take them as close up as possible.

https://ibb.co/eyDupx
https://ibb.co/d9b3hH
https://ibb.co/eBZpNH
https://ibb.co/kaBx9x
https://ibb.co/iTqkwc

The first is the new patch by the ear, though I've also found a patch behind the ears too. What is going on? The bit by the eye is healing yet it's spreading somewhere else? Is it dry skin from so much powder and bath dust? Their fed on Science Select, Oxbow hay and Readygrass so can't see it being poor quality food. I have an appointment at the vets at 5.30, is there any specific test or treatment I should ask for?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

It could be mites. Although chinchilla fur is too dense to host them, exposed areas, for example, ears and nose can host them. Definitely a vet case now, and hopefully, a skin scraping and culture test will show what the cause is.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

The vet will be the best person to diagnose...It could be a multitude of things and as this has been ongoing for a bit now it is best to find out what you are treating for.
The fact your other chin hasn't shown signs of ringworm by now is another reason (not sure if they are still kept in your shed but without strict quarantine measures any other animals are at risk if it is ringworm.
It looks more like mites with the scaly and flaky skin but as already said, your vet is in a better position to diagnose


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you both, I will update when I get back. I have a dog and she is also fine, and I am also ok despite handling and treating this chin reapetedly. It is solely her who has this, nothing and nobody else is affected at all. They are in the shed but until the new one arrives I've cleaned and aired it out as best I can and they aren't loose to get near the wood. The cage is all metal and being cleaned twice a week.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Right I'm back and £60 lighter...The vet says it is almost definitely fungus and took a pinch of hairs and flaky bits to send to the lab, and another pinch to check for mites just in case. The lab tests can take up to four weeks so in the meantime I've been given Surolan ear drops to apply to try and stop it going worse and to go back in a week to see how she is. I also discovered a new patch on her back while she was being examined, it seems even though she's not scratching that much, it's still spreading quite quickly.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Well done you for acting so promptly. It will be interesting to see exactly what condition this turns out to be. Stringent hygiene is important now, hand washing after each interaction and hopefully, the meds should begin to do their work. Has your chin been in contact with any source of damp or wet, including moisture laden air? This is particularly bad for accelerating fungal conditions.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Yes it will be and I 'm also anxious to know exactly what it is in the hope I can then avoid it happening again, not least because between the vet bills and having to replace everything it's cost £450 so far. The vet did say I ought to wear gloves really to hold her but I can't grip her properly with them so I'm just crossing my fingers I won't catch it off her. The amount of anti-bacterial hand soap I've gone through I should be immune to everything anyway. 

The Surolan does seem to be working at least, I put some on last night and the flakes are looking better and fewer already despite the skin looking balder. It's very very hard to apply though, back and ears aren't too difficult but around the nose is a different matter, typical as that's the worst bit!


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Sounds like its a particularly stubborn case, lets hope the vet's treatment clears it quicker.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Please keep us posted TabulaRasa. Chinchillas are complex animals and the more information about the various conditions they can suffer from, then the better we are equipped to deal.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Yes I will do, hopefully it will help somebody else if they find themselves with the same issue. Also it'll be good to find out exactly what type of fungus it is because the powder was working initially. This ear ointment is certainly working at the moment as the hard crusty bits have gone down considerably. I've found if I give her a mini shredded wheat it keeps her occupied long enough to treat her back and ears. A matchstick with the end broken off works for below and above her nose but I haven't yet come up with a way of effectively doing either side, as soon as anything touches her whiskers she moves her head away. 

I've just realised as well Tiggers that you asked earlier if she'd been in contact with anywhere wet or damp. As far as I know, no she hasn't, however the weather here has been such a non-stop mix of rain, snow and sleet since January maybe the air itself has been too damp for her to cope with. I'm thinking of getting a dehumidifier for the new shed by next winter to help keep the air dry. The vet thought given her age it was low immunity bought on by the stress of a new home and all that goes with it.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

All my chinchillas live in the house. That said, I run a dehumidifier regularly in damp weather and in periods of high humidity in summer with very positive results.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Just out of curiosity TabulaRasa, what pellets do you feed, and where do you purchase your hay?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I feed Science Select in the turquoise and white bag, partly as it's the only one my local shop has so I know I can get it easily and partly because I was told it's the best one. I buy hay online though because they'll only eat Oxbow and the local place doesn't sell it. The last two bags were from an Amazon seller but the new one that's just arrived is from The Hay Experts. 

Fifth lot of ointment now, and it does seem to be dealing with it well. The bits around the ears and the patch on her back looks like it's been stopped just in time from going worse or spreading anywhere else. By the eye looks vastly better, I think that's had the most progress so far. Interestingly it's also the bit that was clearing up the quickest with the powder too. Nose looks bad because it's bare and wet looking but the scabbiness and crusts have either gone or drop off easily whereas they were firmly attached before, there was a big scab like lumpy bit right above her nose and that's gone completely. She could do with a dust bath as she's looking a bit sticky but I'm worried it'll aggravate the skin and it'll flare back up.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Both your hay and pellet choices are good. I feed my chinchilla herd Beaphar Care Plus pellets and Western Timothy Hay from The Dust Free Hay Company. I'm so pleased that the meds you were given are starting to have a positive effect. Sick chins are such a worry. I recently took s small Ebony rescue chin in. He had a weepy eye, was under weight and extremely nervous of handling. He's perfectly fine now, eye cleared up, weigh gaining nicely and much more confident.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I looked at that hay site but decided the boxes they sell are too big. Mine will have got bored with it less than half way through and it'll end up being wasted. It looks good value if you have several chinchillas though, or other animals as well to share it around. This ointment is doing well at keeping whatever it is at bay, and it does seem to be clearing it up as well, the white bits on her whiskers have gone down to almost nothing but the skin has looked the same for a couple of days now. I'm really struggling to apply it by her nose and eyes though so perhaps that's why. I'm a little concerned that there seems to be no sign of new hairs growing yet but maybe the fungus needs to be completely gone for that. You are so right Tiggers, ill chins are a real worry, I will be very relieved when this is over. I keep wondering if I ought to let her breeder know but I can't bring myself to. I feel terrible that one of her babies she handed over in good faith and in perfect condition is now in such a mess.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I'm so glad the meds are working TabulaRasa. I would let the breeder know, as it is possible that the fungus could have originated there and he/she would need to check their own stick. Please keep us informed how your baby gets on.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I feel like banging my head against the wall in despair...my older girl is now showing signs of having this fungus. A bit on one side of her nose and under her mouth is looking bare, no flakes (yet) but definitely looks the same otherwise. I've stuck a blob of the Surolan on in the hope of stopping it instantly, but when the other has been being treated daily with it I can't understand how that alone hasn't kept it from redeveloping, nor why it's only showing now when the first lot is clearing up. At least I already had a vet appointment booked for a check up tomorrow so she can be seen straight away which is something I suppose.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Oh, I'm so sorry. Let your vet take a look and treat accordingly. Fungus is notoriously difficult to shift, and can reoccur several times before disappearing. Please keep us updated. Sending hugs xxxxx


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Any update yet TabulaRasa?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Sorry, been out all day and appointment wasn't until late this afternoon. Yes, vet is happy with how the first lot is clearing up and says it's looking much better. She also says it's almost certain now to be something fungal otherwise the Surolan wouldn't have made any difference, she'd also checked just incase it was mites/some type of parasite but we're clear on that front. Nothing from the lab but then I wasn't expecting there to be. So for now it's another week of cream for the baby and two weeks of it for the older girl along with a dust bath every day. They do look that bit better for having a bath and hopefully they'll feel it too which will help. Their new shed is arriving tomorrow, if it stays dry I'm going to try and set it up over the weekend as despite my attempt at cleaning the old one out, I'm sure it's no substitute for new fresh wood.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I'm so glad it went well at the vet's. I'm in the middle of helping a friend deal with a chin with a bladder infection at the moment.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you Tiggers, I'm starting to feel just a bit more positive with how this is going. The cream is working and doing so very effectively, I can't see any new patches on either and both are otherwise happy and lively so hopefully it's bothering them too much now. They aren't scratching either, which thinking back is something the little one in particular was doing a fair bit of when this started. I'll get some pictures again tomorrow but I think we have made some progress. How do you treat a UTI in a chinnie, with antibiotic tablets same as people have?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Antibiotics, a pain killer and a probiotic to protect the gut flora. The chin is doing well, and responding to treatment. I'm glad your girls are doing well.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Did you get your new shed sorted TabulaRasa Rasa, and how are your chins?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I'm glad your friend's chin is doing well Tiggers☺.

The new shed did arrive however it isn't up yet because I'm going to need some assistance with it. It is extremely heavy, I can't move one panel of it on my own, I'm hoping to put it together later in the week when I've got others to help with it. From what I can see of it though it is a vast improvement on the old one. So week 2 and merrily we roll along with this mystery fungus that is anything but fun...

Baby is looking far better, no new outbreaks, no more 'paint splattered' whiskers, skin is smooth and returned to the usual pale blueish grey tone it was rather than pink or red. No new hair growth showing yet and I've managed to remove the last bits of crusts off a couple of whiskers, which also came out, but whether that's due to the treatment, the fungus or they were naturally shed I don't know. They came out with such ease they must have been on the verge of dropping out anyway. Her treatment course ends on Thursday but with six doses left still hopefully she'll improve even more by then.

Older girl is unfortunately looking like she is going to go through the same but with luck not on such an extreme scale through being treated instantly. She has a unmistakable bare patch by her nose, and now it's slightly bare around one eye, not much, but enough to make it noticeable. I'm starting to recognise the tell-tale signs this problem gives. The hair in one place looks not quite right, as if there's a broken line in it or a droplet of water has darkened and flattened it, then by the next day the same spot is bare and pink. That then goes into raised bumpy scabs and crusty flakes that starts spreading like wildfire if left. Getting the ointment applied instantly appears to be the key to preventing the raised scabs forming but it doesn't appear to stop it completely. I would say she has a much milder case of it, either due to being older or from being treated straight away, I am just hoping against hope that it goes no worse and she doesn't re-infect the other. I am however, kicking myself now for not treating both from the start even though she seemed fine. Whatever this turns out to be it's got a real hold that's for sure, I've thrown everything at it and it's still not gone.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I'm so glad that your chins are stable TabulaRasa. As previously stated, sick chins cause untold stress and worry. I'm off work for a few days at present caring for hubby who has injured his neck and can't do much for himself, plus twenty chins and other pets, so it's pretty stressful here at the moment.








This is my latest rescue chin. He's been with me eight week now and his confidence and weight are gaining nicely.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

What a sweet boy, he looks superb☺. I wish mine looked as good as that at the moment, I'm sure that looking and feeling a sticky, bedraggled mess must make them pretty miserable. I've forgotten what it's like to have so many to look after, you must be rushed off your feet!

First bottle of Surolan almost gone but I'm beginning to wonder if it's still working. My girl has now got quite a patch of hair missing by her eye, and today I've noticed the little one has a few of those round balls (the flaky bits formed into these the first night after treatment) around the base of her whiskers again, both of which I wouldn't have thought would happen when they're being so strictly dosed.They've also both started scratching quite a bit again. The vet wanted some pictures tomorrow, but I'm thinking it's possible another visit is in order. This ointment can thin the skin so I'm afraid of upping the doses without a vet's approval. I've relocated them temporarily into the porch incase it's particles left in the shed itself stopping them healing properly. I've also cut out the Readygrass this evening, it's the only thing left that hasn't been renewed, the pellets and hay were both new bags last week but the readygrass wasn't and I'm wondering if that is the cause. Mainly because I've been through everything else, done everything I can think of and am now thoroughly out of ideas.

Here's some photos, the first two are the girl who's had treatment since last Thursday and has another week to go. The other six are the baby's after doses since the Thursday before, who is supposed to be finishing the treatment after tomorrow:










Below the eye is bare too but it doesn't show up well









Patch on her back,









By her ear, the other is the same









Worst bits by far, around her nose


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Poor chins. At least you are giving them the best care possible. Please stay in touch TabulaRasa. It's great to have chinny friends and swap information, pics etc.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

This mystery deepens! After Wednesday night in the porch almost all of those yellow bits had gone again by the next morning. They're still in the porch and both are looking a great deal better again. Could it be that traces of the fungus within the timber fibres were making this thing flare back up before the cream was getting a chance to really deal with it? It really did look like it was going bad again then almost vanished overnight! Unless it was the Readygrass, as I've given no more of that either. One off and one on treatment now, time will tell how that goes.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How weird. I'd hazard a guess at the wood theory. So glad in appears to be improving. Please keep us updated.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

A few updates:

Old shed has now been taken down and the new one is up in it's place. They aren't in it yet though as I 've been oiling the floor to make it wipe-clean and it's going to need a few hours to air out.

After finishing the treatment course last Thursday, baby Skye is looking much much better. There is new hair growing in the patch on her back and I'm fairly sure it's growing back around her nose as well. Combing her seems to be helping the matted fur come out and the hair is starting to look in good condition again. There's a couple of yellow bits left at the base of her whiskers but as she won't let me wipe it it'll have to fall off in it's own time, otherwise I can't see any other sign of it.

Astrid has lost a bit more hair from the edge of the eye to the corner of her nose, it's only bare, there are no flakes and it looks like there's a tiny bit of new hair showing. She's still got five doses to go but apart from the baldness, she also looks fine.

The lab results came back today, positive for fungus and it is ringworm. At least I know what it is now which is something. There is another treatment available, but it's oral and can have a few side effects including in the gut, not a route neither me nor the vet wants to go down if possible, so it's back for a check-up on Thursday to see if the Surolan alone has been/ is being successful enough. Fingers crossed it is, I really, really don't want to have to use something that interferes with their digestive system.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Any oral meds for chins carry a certain amount of risk ref guts and organs unfortunately. From what you describe, the Surolan seems to be doing its work which is brilliant. You must feel so relieved. There is every chance that baby Skye brought the problem with her from the breeder. Please keep us updated, and I'm so pleased that things are starting to look up xx


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I was feeling very relieved, until last night. Although the flakes have gone ,around the whiskers and the ears where the problem was at it's worse I noticed the skin felt slightly bumpy so I put some more Surolan on. This morning those bits are now more bumpy and like little pimples with pus in them. There has been one or two of these around the whisker base since last week, I think it's what's causing the yellow 'crumbs' that keep appearing. I tried to remove this last night and the whole whisker came out, with these yellow bits going right to the end (the inside end), which must be coming from inside her skin. So are these pus blobs

a) a side effect of the Surolan
b) toxins left over from the Surolan being pushed out
c) toxins left over from the ringworm/fungus being pushed out
d) the ringworm re-starting
e) all or a mix of the above
f) something else entirely

I'm not even sure if I should have given more of the ointment seeing as it was meant to stop last week but I'm absolutely fed up now of trying to sort this. Nothing I do is completely working, just what the h-e-double hockey sticks is it going to take to get rid of it


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I would suggest contacting your vet for further advise. Ringworm is notoriously difficult to shift. I am still of the belief that baby Skye could have brought this infection with her from the breeder and I would consider contacting him/her to see if any of his/her stock has suffered the same. I can feel your frustration, but stay strong and keep going. Sending hugs xxx


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thanks Tiggers, I'm sorry if I'm coming across as annoyed but this is driving me round the bend, every time I go forward a step it takes me three steps back. I have an appointment tomorrow afternoon, I would change it to today but the vet whose dealing with it wasn't going to be in until tomorrow. I wonder if the treatment course finished too soon, before it had completely cleared the problem. I think they'll almost certainly need to be put on the oral stuff after all. Drat it.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

You are not coming across as annoyed, bless you. I had a chin with diarrhoea several years ago, and the constant scrubbing down of the cage shelves was a work in progress. I would just get cleaned up and they would get splattered yet again. Discuss with your vet all the options open to treating ringworm before deciding on the next course of action. Ringworm can occur at any time. I've seen it go right through a top breeder's herd, so no chin keeper is immune.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

The most aggravating part is that they aren't far wrong now but they just won't get past the last bit, or at least I can't get them past it. I really thought that her own immune system would have have kicked in and took over when the cream was stopped but either it hasn't, or the ringworm has got too strong a hold for it to overpower it completely.

Ok, I dosed both again last night and and baby Skye is once more looking better, especially her ear, which looked like some horrible witches curse yesterday! This is leading me to believe the treatment course was stopped too soon, but as it's skin thinning I suppose the vet didn't like to use it for too long. I'll ask tonight about that. Unfortunately Astrid's not as good, she's got a slightly cut/ grazed bloody spot now right where the skin is exposed by her eye and I'm not sure how she's done it. Not put anything on it yet, waiting until I've seen the vet, just hoping it doesn't go infected and make the ringworm worse.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I'm keeping everything crossed that the vet can further help you sort this ringworm out and get it cleared up once and for all. Please let us now how you get on xx


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you Tiggers, it seems to have gone on for months in a neverending up and down saga that still has no end in sight yet. Been to vets, good news is Astrid's cut isn't deep, she's likely done it herself by scratching vigorously with no hair to protect the skin, and as Surolan has antiseptic in it that should take care of it, which is something at least. 

Bad news is the Surolan isn't doing enough to convince the vet it will clear the ringworm, which is why it keeps coming back up. Interestingly it has cleared it completely on her back where I could apply it easily direct on the skin though. I did ask about other options but apart from the oral stuff, there aren't any. I was given the choice of another two week course of Surolan and if that didn't work, three weeks of the oral option or try the oral one straight away, so after weighing it up I chose to try the oral stuff. There are no side effects with it but it can in rare cases cause gut stasis, which I asked about and was told shouldn't be a problem provided I can keep them eating. She also advised a probiotic and supplements to help keep things as they should be internally, I don't suppose you have any suggestions with those as they aren't something I've ever had to buy before?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

For the probiotic, I would choose Avipro Plus which I will give you the link for. It's disolved in the water bottle, so making it easier to administer. I'm not certain how often you change your chin's water, but I would recommend once every 24 hours so as to prevent waste. Supplements I would steer clear of. Just regular hay and pellets, and any normal treats you give.

https://www.vetmedsdirect.co.uk/Vetark-Avipro-Plus/c1441/


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Sorry to hear you're still still going through this. I too would opt for oral meditation in the hope of finally clearing. It must be very stubborn.

For probiotic I use fibreplex, they're usually happy to eat this paste or biokult capsule sprinkled on pellets. 
I believe avipro plus can be put on pellets too, if you do add it to the water remember to put an extra bottle of just water in case they don't like the taste and so stop drinking. Personally I try to avoid putting anything in their water.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you both, Arny I can't believe it's still ongoing either! 

I have ordered the Avipro Plus and the Fibreplex then if they don't like one they have another. I change the water every day at this time of year and they do have two in case one stops working so I'll just add it to one bottle. I've had the oral med, it's called 'Fungitraxx' , designed for ornamental birds. It's not licenced in chinchillas, I had to sign a form for it, which has put me off a bit. As the probiotics won't likely arrive before Monday or Tuesday I don't know if it 's safe to give this stuff yet, waiting for the vet to call about it. In the meantime the Surolan has improved them again, it seems as if it works fine while it's given but as soon as it's stopped the fungus reappears.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Itraconazole (itrafungol) is the one I've heard most prescribed. Unfortunately I don't know more than that or about your one.
Don't necessarily be put off about signing the form though, its just to cover the vet and many things aren't licensed for chins.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I've not heard of Itrafungol but the side of the box of this stuff has "10mg/ml Itraconazole" on it so perhaps it's the same thing under a different name? Apparently they do one for cats too but that would have been too strong. I've spoken to my vet who has assured me it is the safest stuff they can give and she can't see them having any problems which has reassured me somewhat. She has advised that I wait until the probiotics arrive then start both to give the best possible chance of not upsetting anything. In the meantime I can use the Surolan to try and keep it from reappearing over the weekend.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Yes probably is, Itraconazole is most likely just the generic name. I know a few that have used it with no issue so hopefully they'll be fine with it.
Fingers crossed it finally knocks it on the head.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Unfortunately I don't know how long it took to clear for them though.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

It is comforting to know that others have used it with no problem, it's making me feel better about giving it them now.

Yes I hope it does too, as apart from not knowing what on earth to try if it doesn't as the vet vets says there aren't many options, both chins are by now appearing thoroughly fed up of being daubed with cream and kept confined to their cage. Although they are eating and drinking fine they seemed pretty listless and withdrawn, so taking into account I've sealed the floor so it's glossy and nothing can stick in the timber fibres, I let them have a quick run around and the difference in them was remarkable. They seemed to have their bounce back in seconds. They haven't been out of the cage since this started in an attempt to stop it spreading, and while I'm worried about fungus spores shedding onto the floor, I'm getting even more concerned about their mental state, especially with them about to start another three weeks of meds as they were getting quite subdued. In my experience the better you feel the quicker you heal, I thought it wouldn't hurt to try anyway. 

Not sure what to clean the floor with now though, I've been using pine disinfectant and really hot soapy water to wash the cage and bathing tub but I don't know if that 's enough for the floor, would something like Virkon be better? They sell it in small packs at the farm suppliers and as it said it's for fungus I did wonder if it could be used to clean the cage and such but not sure if it's safe to use around chinchillas.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

It can be hard to know what to do for the best but if letting them out perks them up I'd do the same, after all the spores can't be spreading much more than them just in the cage in that room.

Virkon is safe but after having this discussion with others recently, as many of us are doing 'spring clean' now the weathers nice to jet wash cages, it seems like F10 might be better for killing fungus and its less corrosive so might be a better option. The farm place might sell this too or can buy it online.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Is this the right one?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/F10-Disinf...d=1524922281&sr=1-1&keywords=f10+disinfectant

There are lots of versions showing up and they all seem to be for something different. The farm suppliers don't sell this, only Virkon or Jeyes Fluid and I'd rather this F10 if it's better against fungus so I'll order some. Anything to lessen the risk of going through this again.

Both chins are looking perkier today, far more interested again in what's going on around them. Both are looking better too, those awful pus blobs have gone down a lot and the cut scratch Astrid gave herself is healing well already. For the moment at least, things are looking better than they have done for some days☺.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Yes that's the one or you can get it as a concentrated liquid that you add water to yourself which might be cheaper.
Good, hopefully it'll be over soon.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How are your girls today TabulaRasa?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

They're not too bad, I've dropped the cream to one dose a day as there really is barely any left now, and so far it doesn't seem to be having a negative impact. I do think baby Skye still has it in her system more though, her nose is looking much better but a few whiskers have that 'paint spattered' appearance again and I found a small hard lump-like stub of what seems to be a mix of congealed scab and skin by her neck. Whether she's also scratched it herself I don't know, here's hoping the new treatment deals with it. For now I've put the Surolan on it, it's cleared up Astrid's face cut so quick I thought it might also help this. 

Thank you Arny, I'll get some of that ordered for this week. Do you happen to know if you can put it into the washing machine? I use fleece and I'm unsure if they'll survive a 60°C wash, but I doubt the 30°C is high enough on it's own.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

I honestly don't know about the fleece. Maybe hand washing in f10 would be enough?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Oh yes that's an idea, I'll soak them in it then just spin them in the machine. 

Chins are looking better, the lump on Skye went down really quick once I removed the matted top and put some Surolan on it (it seems to be highly effective as an antiseptic cream), it 's almost gone as fast as it appeared. Both are lively, full of energy and eating really well, I think I've got them as good as I can ready for the next three weeks of new treatment, they look in a better state than they did last week anyway. Biotics are supposed to arrive today so hopefully they can start the Fungitraxx tonight.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Stuff has turned up, Fibreplex says it's for rabbits, is this one right? As I ordered one for rabbits & small animals but this doesn't say anything about small animals on it. How much of each should I give? Do I give them immediately after the Fungitraxx, before or after a certain amount of time?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Fibreplex is not a probiotic I'm keen on. I prefer Avipro in that it's much easier to administer via the water bottle. Maybe Arny can help here.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Ok I'll give just that for now. There 's a little scoop with 5ml on it in the pot, will that be enough for both or do they need that much each?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

That should be fine for both of them. I would only use one type of probiotic, not two. If you choose the Avipro, then I would stay with that one.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How did you get on with the Avipro?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Is everything all right ref your chins TabulaRasa? Are the new meds having any better results?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I'm sorry for disappearing and leaving everything hanging here, I'm afraid I got some news that knocked me for six and being online has been the last thing on my mind. It has not been a good few days but the chins are thankfully doing well. All the hair is growing back rapidly and very little trace of the fungus is remaining, just the odd spot on Skye's ear and whiskers, but they've only had four days of treatment out of 21 so I think that's pretty good going. It is easier and less messy by far to give as well so I know both are definitely getting the full amount, although one hates the taste and the other loves it! Both are eating as well as ever and the Avipro they seem to like so much they won't touch the normal water bottle. I doubt the pot is big enough to last all three weeks so I'm debating sending the Fibreplex back and getting another lot of AP instead as I can't see the other one being needed. Fingers crossed this is finally nearly over.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I'm so sorry that you've received bad news TabulaRasa. I've had a strange week ref blood tests for hubby with a recall for more blood tests, but all turned out ok. I'm glad that your girls are improving, and that they like the Avipro. I've found by experience that it's one of the best probiotics around. Let's hope that the new meds will sort out this problem completely. Please keep us informed.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thanks Tiggers, I'm glad your week turned out ok, unfortunately mine went from bad to worse which is why I've not been on here. The chins though are getting better by the day I'm mighty relieved to say. We went back to the vets for a check up yesterday and she also said they look so much better especially as it's only been a week. They have to go back in two weeks time, just before the Fungitraxx finishes because she'd rather extend the course by an extra week or so than have to start a new one again if it's decided that they aren't completely clear of any traces. I will try and get some photos tomorrow so you can see how they're coming along ☺.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

That's great news TabulaRasa. I hope your issues improve for you too. Stay in touch and sending hugs xxx


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

No animal should be subjected to chlorine or bleach at any time! The corrosive properties of these agents are enough to kill a small animal outright! This is really not a wise suggestion. Please will admin remove.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Thanks admin


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I hope you are ok TabulaRasa and your girls are continuing to improve. We are all just getting back to normal after the mini heatwave over the bank holiday weekend. My chins were all sulky and really not impressed at having no out of cage exercise, but it was totally impossible at 23 degrees.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I am hopefully back here and able to post again after what has been without any exaggeration a living nightmare of a month that I have do not want to go through again for as long as I live... I feel like I've been to Hell and back and somehow or other managed to survive. Now I just want to forget it happened, which is going to be impossible to do fully, but it's not ruining any more of my days than it already has so I'm making a determined effort to get back to normal. So, chin update - both are looking vastly better, the fur has almost grown back on both and neither are scratching any more beyond what small fluffs tend to do anyway. Skye has got just a tiny patch still on one ear and the odd whisker that just won't shift, they've now been on the Fungatraxx for 2 weeks and it still hasn't gone and I'm not sure why when it's working so well everywhere else. They have a a vet check up again on Monday and if it's not gone by then there's a good chance she'll put them on yet another course. I'd say they're 99% better by now, just can't get that last 1% for some reason. Here's some pics:

Annoying bit on Skye's ear that won't go away fully


Eyes and nose are looking much better though


A whisker blob, there's a couple more on other whiskers but only this one would show up clearly


Asti's face looks much better, but she was less affected to begin with so she's improved quicker


It has been a very very peculiar, challenging and downright terrible two months between everything, but on the whole I think we're finally getting there.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Your girls are looking so much better TabulaRasa. I'm so glad that this course of treatment is having a positive effect. I'm so sorry you are passing through difficult times. I had a really rough several months at the back end of last year/beginning of this year and still suffer flash backs. Hopefully time will help us both xxxxx


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you Tiggers, here's to hoping the rest of the year runs smoothly for both of us ☺. My chins and dog have kept me sane over this last month, having them to see to and focus on has almost forced me not to fall apart and they've provided some much needed light relief. That's something else I am really relieved about, both chins are still their friendly selves, I had been worried that they might have gone skittish and distrustful from being forced into taking treatment for so long, added with a lack of handling and cage confinement as well, but they are their usual tame happy outgoing little personalities. Off for a check up tomorrow or Tuesday depending when I can get them in, *fingers crossed* for a good report!


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Back from vets again! She's happy with how Astrid's looking by now so no more treatment for her. Baby Skye though is still not in the clear, because she still has tiny spots on her ears and whiskers she is to do another 5 days of Fungitrax along with some Surolan again for the last two before stopping everything and seeing how things go. If it looks like something is reappearing they've got to start another course. After getting home I've noticed Astrid's whiskers on one side are suddenly shorter with a split end look to some, I am hoping that they've simply been chewed in boredom at being stuck in a cage and not a sign of the fungus returning.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How are you and your girls TabulaRasa? I hope this heat is not affecting you too badly. It's 22 degrees here, but everyone is fine.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

They are looking well, for the last three days I've given Skye both the Fungitraxx and a touch of Surolan which seems to have done the trick as her ears are now almost spotless. All the Fungitraxx has gone now, just finished it tonight, have to watch carefully for any signs of it returning now, which if it's going to I imagine it won't take long. The only thing I'm uneasy about is their whiskers don't look too good, they look a bit bent, chewed and 'clipped', but I don't know if that's the last of the fungus coming out and it won't look better until new ones have grown in their place or what as the rest of them now looks almost back to normal. I'm also unsure if I should carry on with the AviPro or stop it incase they have to go on a second course of treatment. It's really hot here so I'm trying extra hard to keep them cool, I seem to recall reading that funguses are worsened by high humidity and after the problems I've had I'm taking no chances!


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Do you have a dehumidifier? I run s small one day and night through hot weather and it helps.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How have you coped today with the heat TabulaRasa? It made 27 degrees here which is virtually unheard of. Chins are all fine, and bouncing merrily. I'm burned out with stress and worry trying to keep them cool. They all have ice packs on their cages and cool pots that they love to sit in.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

It is tropical here too! I've had their new shed wired up today so now a dehumidifier and fan can be set up in there. I think they approve as they've spent all afternoon lying directly in front of it! Both are looking really well now, fur is growing back rapidly and I'm starting to think that the stubborn unshiftable spot on Skye's ear is a bit of skin pigmentation hence it not changing or altering at all no matter what I do. Still keeping a very close eye on them though as it's only been two days off the meds.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

The heat has been from Hell here too. My lot are just coming to life now. Dehumidifier will run all night and fan will come off shortly. I'm so pleased that the ringworm is beginning to subside. Stay in touch xxxx


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Hot here again now that the storm has cleared but chins are happy and (hopefully) fine. They've been off all meds for a week and *touch wood* no sign of anything but I am going to phone my vet early next week to ask how long it takes for them to be considered cured or clear. Here's some pics from tonight:









https://ibb.co/i2DA3J


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

They both look fantastic TabulaRasa. Your violet girl is stunning. I have a beautiful three year old violet boy who looks very like your girl. It's cooled down significantly here and the chins are so much happier.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thanks Tiggers, I had quite a job to get a violet, seems to be a bit of an elusive colour, or it was when I was looking. You must post a photo of your boy, I'd love to see him, I have a soft spot for violets. It's not cooled down here, it's getting hotter but both chins are looking better with every day, the only really noticeable thing now is Astrid's Ziggy Stardust mark .


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

So today Skye has got a raised lump on her ear. I'm not sure if it's just a spot/pimple type thing or the ringworm reappearing. I 'm not sure what to do either, I don't want to leave it incase it is that and it goes worse again but on the other hand I don't want to re-treat unnecessarily either.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Check with your vet TabulaRasa. It could be something totally unrelated, but best not to take any chances. Please keep us updated xx


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I've made up mind to ask for another bottle of meds for them both tomorrow. My vet said any sign of something and she'd get it straight on order for me and I've now found that bump, I found another crusty scabby bit that oozed like a spot on the bottom of the other ear this afternoon, both ears are looking a bit flaky and Astrid's whiskers have broken off a bit more. I've got a horrible niggling feeling they've got it again (or it never went away completely in the first place, their whiskers have always had me suspecting the worse but hoping for the best), only not as bad because of the recent medication. If I can catch it quick enough perhaps it won't go as bad. 

The only other thing I can think has reinfected them is the cage itself, which although metal is a bit rusty in places, and I'm going to replace it in a couple of months anyway. Everything else has gone, the only wood toy they have is a piece of pine baton to chew on which is brand new and some cardboard boxes and tubes for out of cage time so that everything is either throwable or washable.

If they do have it again I'm astounded that I haven't caught it this time, because they've been sat on my shoulders, arms, running up and down my back, even sat on my head, and my immune system must be shot to pieces after the month I've had!


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Any update TabulaRasa? How are you feeling?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Stressed out Tiggers, and wondering when this is finally going to be over, that's how I'm feeling!! Even my vet can't understand what is causing this. I phoned up this morning to order another bottle in, but just in case it was something else I took them over to be looked at this afternoon. My vet is sure Astrid's broken whiskers are simply the result of the damage caused by the fungus and that they need to grow out so she's not too concerned about her provided nothing else appears. Little Skye on the other hand looks to still have traces that either haven't cleared up or come back and has been put back on a course of meds for two weeks, with another check up in a week. If it doesn't clear it this time though have to try and look into something else. In the meantime I'm going to try disinfecting the cage again, this time I'm going to soak it in F10 for a while and see if that helps.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I'm so sorry you are going through this TabulaRasa, I really feel for you. Although I can do nothing practical, I can give you support through the forum. Chins are so precious, and I understand in full the stress and anxiety you are going through. Sending big hugs to you all xx


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

You have helped me enormously Tiggers, I wouldn't have had a clue what to do without your and Arny's advice because I've never dealt with such a problem before. I've been around animals all my life, I've owned loads with all manner of peculiarities and issues, I see different problems on a daily basis with work, but I have never known anything like this for stubbornness and difficulty to fix (not to mention cost!). The only small consolation is at least my dog hasn't got it, or myself for that matter. I've now got the new bottle of Fungitraxx, here's hoping it works this time.

As an aside, I found this on offer with VioVet and was going to get it when I order their hay, but is F10SC the same as just F10 or is it no good?

https://www.viovet.co.uk/F10-Produc...t_t=1528374705&sct_q=f10+disinfectant&sct_r=3


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I'm glad that I've been able to help TabulaRasa, and I'm here for continuing support and any future issues. There are hints that this hot weather is finally starting to cool down, and for this I'm grateful. I'm not familiar with the disinfectant your link shows. Maybe Arny could help with this xxxx


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

TabulaRasa said:


> You have helped me enormously Tiggers, I wouldn't have had a clue what to do without your and Arny's advice because I've never dealt with such a problem before. I've been around animals all my life, I've owned loads with all manner of peculiarities and issues, I see different problems on a daily basis with work, but I have never known anything like this for stubbornness and difficulty to fix (not to mention cost!). The only small consolation is at least my dog hasn't got it, or myself for that matter. I've now got the new bottle of Fungitraxx, here's hoping it works this time.
> 
> As an aside, I found this on offer with VioVet and was going to get it when I order their hay, but is F10SC the same as just F10 or is it no good?
> 
> https://www.viovet.co.uk/F10-Produc...t_t=1528374705&sct_q=f10+disinfectant&sct_r=3


That's the one. I believe the sc stands for 'super concentrate'. It has directions on what dilutions to use for what for example you won't dilute it as much for killing fungus as you would just for standard cleaning.

Can't believe you're still having to go through this, what a nightmare.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thanks Arny, I've just ordered it, going to drench everything in it!

There's no doubt unfortunately that both have got it again, Skye's scratching and developed yet another spot like bump on her ear (since this afternoon too as I've been watching her like a hawk) and Astrid's ears have suddenly got the same flaky appearance. She's also developed that tell-tale slight pink sparseness around her nose. Both have been dosed immediately, I'm praying it'll halt it in it's tracks this time. The speed this appears and spreads is almost frightening .


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How are you and your girls TabulaRasa? Sorry it's taken a couple of days to post, but it's been hectic here, chins, heat etc.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

It's ok, I've not been on here as I've been busy myself, I've taken the week off so that I can paint the house out. I'm exhausted and boiling in the heat but at least I'm home to keep an eye on the chins. They are both looking much better again already, their ears have lost a lot of the flakiness, the spots are drying out and their noses haven't gone any worse. Skye was developing a bare red scabby patch on her front paw too but that's already looking better. The disinfectant hasn't shown up though so I haven't been able to clean anything yet,but at least the Fungitrax stuff is doing it's job. When I see the vet later this week I'm going to ask if they can stay on it this time until there isn't a trace left on either (provided it's safe enough to do that) as I'm convinced it hadn't totally gone before.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

The heat has been a major issue this weekend especially. Are you in the North or the South of the country? I feel about all in. I'm not sleeping and feel totally drained. Chins are coping extremely well, in fact better than I am.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I am going back to the vet tomorrow, I'm not happy with how the chins are looking. The bottom of their feet look like they have athlete's foot, all big skin flakes and white bits just like their ears but worse. I never thought to look under their feet until tonight and now I'm kicking myself for not doing so. Skye's nails were looking fungus-y and I thought I'd better check her feet in case it's spread to the rest of them, but I'm now thinking it's the other way around, their feet are infected and they keep reinfecting their noses, whiskers and ears by scratching or grooming. Going to get to the vet as soon as I can.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Poor chins, and poor you. This affliction is from Hell and I can imagine the stress and worry you are passing through. If there is anything at all I can do to help, please let me know. Sending hugs xxx


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Thanks Tiggers, I can't believe this has been going on since the start of April!! I have an appt at 4.30 this afternoon with my vet, see if she has any ideas about their poor little paws. I daren't put Surolan on their feet, they'll have it and might ingest the fungus trying to clean it off. I am wondering about standing them on a bit of the athlete's foot powder though. 

The F10 has arrived, it says ready to use so I'm just spraying everything like crazy. Think I've gone a bit mad with it as there's only half the bottle left already and I've not done the cage and fleeced yet! Will update when I get back later on☺.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Back from vets who's by now as puzzled as I am! She said for it to keep coming back like this something must be reinfecting them but neither of us can work out what. 

The food is a new bag, the bag itself is kept in the pantry nowhere near the chins.
The hay is a brand new just opened bag of Oxbow so it's not cheap stuff that hasn't been cleaned or whatever. It's also the fourth bag of hay and second bag of food since this started so it can't be a single bad batch.
They're kept on fleece and towels which is washed regularly, so no infected shavings/chippings or anything
The bath dust is a new box, one of four which came from two different suppliers, in two different shops
The shed is brand new fresh clean dry wood, treated, sealed and spotless, the floor has been waterproofed to stop it absorbing anything
There's nothing in the cage that can harbour anything and the cage itself is all metal
Everything that can be cleaned has been washed and sprayed, anything that can't be has been thrown
They have no toys or chews at the moment that can hold anything, only disposable bits of cardboard
The weather is dry, they are neither too hot nor too cold and they are never in a position to get wet or damp fur

There is literally nothing that can be a source for this, seriously their shed is like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard at the moment, yet SOMETHING keeps constantly reinfecting them. I would have noticed if their feet had been bad for long, I've been examining them constantly from head to tail, which means their paws have gone like that while they've been on the anti-fungal treatment. I am seriously considering going to the doctor to get myself tested for ringworm because I am the only thing left I can think of that is around them all the time!!

In the meantime they're to stay on the meds while my vet gets in touch with the small animal specialist again, to see if they have any other ideas, as the Fungitrax is clearly not strong enough to deal with it fully. And for some reason, the chin's own immune systems aren't either or they'd have shaken it off by now. That's another thing the vet doesn't understand, why their own immunity either won't or can't kick in, which it really should have done given how long they've been treated for. I've never been so perplexed over something so seemingly simple in my life .


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

I really hope you get rid of it soon, how frustrating. 

I've personally only dealt with fungus twice and both times were very quick and easy to rid at home (although have seen many cases on fb groups that too were fairly straight forward once the owners knew what it was).


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Stay strong TabulaRasa. At least your vet is seeking help from another source. Any support or help I can give, please let me know. Sending hugs xxxx


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How are you and your girls?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I'm still waiting to hear back from my vet, presumably because she's still waiting to hear from the specialist herself so at the moment things have ground to a halt. I'm going to have to call myself tomorrow though whether she's had a reply or not, because I need to know whether she wants to check them again, extend the course of Fungitrax or take them off it. As I'm almost out of Avipro too and I don't know what to do about that either. They've been fine with the meds so I'm not sure if it's worth ordering another pot or trying the Fibreplex (which I still have unopened). The Avipro for some reason causes mould to grow in the water bottle, though I'm guessing it's not supposed to!

In the meantime though something rather odd has happened. After I sprayed everything in F10 I found to my absolute astonishment that when I checked their feet the next morning they looked noticeably better. By the evening they had improved even more and over the last few days they are vastly and unmistakably better. The crusty bits on their ears has gone, and so has the white bits and hard skin flakes on their feet. Their front paws have nearly nothing left on them. I cannot believe the difference in how they look, they seem to have improved more since I sprayed that F10 stuff than they have on eight weeks of treatments!! On top of that, little Skye has suddenly grown and gained some weight since she's started looking better, which leads me to wonder if this fungus has been somehow depriving her slightly and that's why she couldn't seem to fight it off. She had barely grown since I got her and within this last week she's now almost the same size and weight as Astrid. Will see what my vet says when I can get hold of her tomorrow☺.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Finally spoken to my vet! She's still waiting for a reply from specialists but for now they're to stay on the Fungitrax for another two weeks which means a third bottle of it, and disinfect with F10 at least twice a week. Cleaned everything top to bottom again, new dust, trying to keep the cage spotless and just ordered a new cage. Not sure what else to do other than request another lab test to make sure it isn't a different type of fungus or something. Out of Avipro so started the Fibreplex tonight, it's a lot harder to dose, I think Sky ate a bit too much (she's supposed to have half a mil and I think she had 2), I'm hoping it won't do her any harm given it's supposed to help her system.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

I do hope that this situation resolves itself quickly for you TabulaRasa. I'm suffering pretty high stress levels at the moment and the moment, and the prospect of yet more incoming heat is freaking me out now. I hate heat so much, and the added worry of getting the chins through it safely. On a more positive note, I'm going to view a baby chin on Wednesday.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I have been told that sunlight kills fungus. Now I know you can't put chins in sunlight for obvious reasons, but it got me wondering about putting them in a sheltered sunny spot for just a minute or two at a time and watching them constantly before putting them back in the shade, just to see if it helps anything. I've also been told to hang a small bunch of holly up high in the shed as it's an old farming treatment for ringworm. There's a holly bush in the garden so I suppose I've nothing to lose by trying it.

The weather is supposed to be getting hotter here again too , I really hope it doesn't cause this fungus to come back with a vengeance if the humidity goes high. Think I'll set the dehumidifier going in their shed, it'll clean the air if nothing else. Lucky you getting to go and view a baby chin! Will it be coming home with you? You must post some photos if it does


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

No, baby chin won't be coming home with us just yet as he'll only be a month old when we meet him. I've had a long chat with his breeder and both her and the baby sound lovely . I'll post a pic as soon as I have one.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How are you all TabulaRasa?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Boiling!! The sun is out in full force again after the more overcast coolness of last week. I did put the chins out on saturday, very carefully and only for a couple of minutes at a time in a shaded spot where there was a breeze, but it did nothing to help. I went back to the vets today to order more Fungitrax and managed to speak to my vet, who is still trying to get hold of the specialist. I tried putting some of the athlete's foot powder on their feet last night but it 's done nothing. Starting a new bottle of meds today and have decided to take them back to vets tomorrow to be re-weighed incase they now need an increased dose and to ask for another lab test to be sure it is still ringworm and not some other type of fungus. Admittedly it doesn't look like the first one, no missing fur, but I never checked their feet first time around either so can't be sure. And as I've paid out around £700-800 so far between everything, another £26 for a lab test won't make much difference!


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Just been checking chins, looks like this nightmare complaint is returning AGAIN. Skye has specks on her ear and a bare smooth pink bald patch near her shoulder. Astrid has a tiny dot on her nose and pink skin around her shoulders and both are scratching a lot. I don't think this Fungitrax is working anymore, they've been on it for six weeks and it's not got rid of it. I am seriously considering taking them to the small animal specialist myself because nothing I do, give or try is curing the problem. I can't see my vet until Thursday but she is also at a loss, unable to understand why they can't fight off something when they've had medication for weeks for it. Going to try putting a bit of Surolan on their feet tomorrow morning if I still have some and keeping hold of them until it's absorbed in so they don't eat it. I really and truly don't know what else to try. Has anybody got any suggestions at all on what can be given to treat ringworm in chinchillas other than what has already been tried in this thread? Please, am absolutely desperate for something that works.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

The feet might just be dried out so look flaky, not necessarily the ringworm.
There is an oral medication I have seen people prescribed, I can't think of the name though.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to do as you suggested and see about getting a culture done if the vet thinks this could help pinpoint it, I've seriously not heard of a case take this long to treat. Doesn't make you feel any better I'm sure but you're doing a great job.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Itraconazole I believe is the oral medication.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Right, I am so so confused by now. I've been googling to see if I can find any suggestions or photos and there's pictures of chinnie feet that look like my two with the same dry flakes and white patches, only they are described as having dry skin.Apparently ear flakes are the same. I also found a site that says 'severely dry skin can look almost identical to ringworm fungus'. Could it be that they have dry skin from being dusted daily and so much treatment and not fungus anymore at all which is why it's not responding? Are they scratching constantly from irritation rather than ringworm? Does anybody have any photos of dry skin in a chinchilla, ears, feet, anything? I will get photos of my girls asap in the morning. Is there any safe hand or skin cream I can apply to see if it makes any difference? I'm really unsure now. And worried, what if I've been dosing them for days or at least the last two weeks for nothing? I don't care about the cost but I do care about them being unnecessarily medicated (if they have been).


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Go back to the breeder where you got baby Skye from as I have a sneaking suspicion that the problem had its origin there. He/she may be able to suggest something other than what is already being done by you xxx


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

I did contact the breeder when I sent her some update photos a couple of weeks back, she said she had had a case of ringworm before but it was 10 years ago. I might try contacting her again though and asking if she has any more ideas on getting rid of it. I bought a tube of Neutrogena hand cream this morning and have rubbed it into their paws and ears as I'm still wondering now if they have dry skin. Here's some photos that I meant to do this morning but photographing chinnie feet on your own is almost impossible!

















The round particles are bits of dust as I bathed them after applying the cream. The white bits on the sklin in the second to last picture is actually white at the end of the hair strands, don't know why it looks so bad in that picture, you can see it clearer on Astrid's darker fur in the next one. Does this look like dry skin or fungus?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

It's really difficult to tell. The feet pics could just be normal callousing??, again, hard to tell. Don't give up TabulaRasa. Has the breeder offered any practical advice?

I've added a pic of the baby boy I've viewed and reserved today.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Oh my goodness Tiggers, he is utterly adorable! What a gorgeous little boy, he looks so cheeky and full of mischief, I bet you can't wait to bring him home!

Went to vet again this morning. My vet does not think that any part of either chin looks like it's got ringworm on it anymore, she even said there was no real point doing another lab test as she's sure nothing will grow from it and there was nothing she could send off either. Both have gained weight so are eating well and are otherwise happy and healthy. She's told me to stop medicating them, if it comes back to restart and take new skin scrapes but otherwise to take them off the Fungitrax as they've been on it quite long enough to have sorted anything out, and that I've cleaned so much there should be no sources left either. She said their ears, skin and feet do look a bit dry and was going to recontact the specialists to see if anything can be tried for that. For now I am continuing to rub the hand cream on their ears and feet, I'm not sure if it's the heat making them really dozy, but they have certainly been scratching less, and where they were scratching looks much less red/pink.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

My chins are not really active at the moment until around 10pm. The heat is taking its toll on us all now. I'm continually stressed with worry about keeping them cool enough.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How are your chins coping with this terrible heat TabulaRasa?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Here is another picture of beautiful baby boy to help us through this infernal heat.


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

They're coping with it better than me, as I actually collapsed in the street yesterday from heatstroke and got carted off in an ambulance! I'm even more concerned about them getting too hot now as the speed it affected me was unbelievable, one minute I felt fine, the next I felt incredibly ill and just zoned out unable to move or speak. Thankfully I had put the chins in the house before going out as it was too hot for them to be anywhere else so at least I didn't have them to worry about on top of everything else (or wouldn't have if I'd been with it enough to do so)!

I have found the best way to keep them cool is to put the cage on their shed floor with a fan going either side and and leave the shed door open. With it being a large door it leaves plenty of air in and I had the shed positioned in such a way the sun can't shine directly in and it's also sheltered between the house and a wall where it catches a breeze well. They're still pretty lifeless though until around 7pm, and they aren't eating until nightime. I suppose from being so inactive. I've also found that the hay, which is usually really green, is going yellow quicker too which they don't like. I'm still putting Neutrogena on their ears and feet. Early days but they do look better.

Awww Tiggers, he is such a delightful looking little boy! Do you have a name for him yet or are you waiting to see what suits his personality and character once you've got him?


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Please be careful TabulaRasa. I'm hearing horror stories of cases being admitted to A&E here, especially after being on the beach. It's heat, humidity and lack of air flow combined that kills chins in the main. Mine have passed safely through 31 degrees (outside temp) with only minimum discomfort and are all up and bouncing by 10pm. I've named the baby Darius.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

How are you ref heat stroke episode TabulaRasa, and how are the chins? The heat is from Hell here, but all chins are fine.


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## Tiggers (May 27, 2014)

Are you and chins ok TabulaRasa?


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## TabulaRasa (Apr 1, 2016)

Sorry I've not been on, I'm having a quiet week, as after several very hectic ones and between everything I really need a bit of a rest. I am fine again thank you, although I'm being a bit more vigilant with the heat than I would usually be as I don't want to go through that unpleasant experience again. The chins are fine, the bald patch on Skye's shoulder hasn't gone any bigger and has got a darkish grey tint to it now where the new hair is just starting to appear. I have been applying the hand cream daily and their ears and feet look much better, but I'm not sure now how to get the build up off their ears. The white flakes have now gone though so it's done some good at least. I've ordered them a new cage and I'm debating on if it's safe now to buy shelving for it and some new toys as they're thoroughly fed up of cardboard by now! Darius is a great name, it really suits him.


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