# Live advice please



## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi, I've finally bit the bullet and I'm making today the day to keep both bunnies together in the pen. 
Didnt start off well today. Rini must have remember the attempted mount and straight away went to box. After a few tense meetings, both rabbits are chilling at either side. The pens about 4'x2'.
They are both relaxed until one comes near the other.
How much of a scuffle is allowed to decide who is "top dog" before it becomes damaging to the relationship.

I know you all do this type of bonding so it would be great for some advice.
How long before I can put some hay in for them and stuff. Should I attach a bottle? 

Any advice is appreciated.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

as long as no blood is drawn then there isnt such thing as too much, they will settle down soon enough

i would leave water out till they calm down, and then put it in in a bowl, the risk with a bottle is they could get the spout in their eye if they bolted, theres no reason you cant line the floor of the pen with hay, aslong as its an all over coverage


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

I'm new to it so have no advice to give though i'd think it would be best to give lots of hay, all over the enclosure so they have something to munch on and something to occupy themselves other than arguing. If you put it all over the floor i'd say that'd be ok. 

Please correct me if i'm wrong everybody ...


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

right i will let them see if the next scuffle can show what their place is cause they keep boxing at the moment.
I'll put hay over the floor lol will be a mess to clear off the carpet but you know XD


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

hay all over, rini and theo munching, rini has been going over to theo, still bit tension from her but theo is happy munching. 
Any more advice anyone?


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

no biting just boxing in the face :/


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

just had a big boxing match. they've been together for 2 hours now, is this normal?


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Lil Miss said:


> theres no reason you cant line the floor of the pen with hay, aslong as its an all over coverage


Beat me to it!!


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

thank you mother nature. thunder really makes nervous buns relax :/


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

put some music on, will help keep them calm through the storm

yes the boxing is normal, it sounds good so far


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Both snoozing in opposite corners. Thunder loud and making them a little bit jittery, Rini hopped over to Theo and sniffed him but did nothing, now shes back in the other corner relaxing.

I dont know if this is good or not, as they are chilling by themselves but when they meet they are still tense and fighting for their place in the pecking order :/


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Lil Miss said:


> put some music on, will help keep them calm through the storm
> 
> yes the boxing is normal, it sounds good so far


good idea, thats good to hear. Think I'll be sleeping on the floor with them tonight lol


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

its good hun, its promising im sure they will be bonded in no time


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Lil Miss said:


> its good hun, its promising im sure they will be bonded in no time


lol i hope so or I'm gonna be sleep deprived XD they just had another meeting and nothing happened but now they've just met again and boxed. growling and aggressive stances but not biting. rini back in other corner theo flopped out. rini back with him, keeping an eye on her


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

so much tension when they meet


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

theo's such a spacka when he tries to roll on his back XD


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

that was kinda better lol. Theo was flopped on his side and rini came over sniffed his face then sniffed his back feet which made him jump up. More tension then before moving away Rini lunged and gave a growl. Just pushing Theo away, no retaliation. Good? Better? lol I dont know, Rini is so stubborn tho!

Hope moderators dont mind me double posting and talking to myself. I'm home alone and finding it easier documenting the bonding on here XD even if noone is talking to me lol


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

its all sounding promising hun!
if rini was being too much of a rat bag he wouldnt be comfortable enough to flop out


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Lil Miss said:


> its all sounding promising hun!
> if rini was being too much of a rat bag he wouldnt be comfortable enough to flop out


lol true XD they aint too stressed XD both flopped out again either side. It's like a sauna in this box room, got a fan pointed at me and down into the pen lol no wonder it thundered


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

spoke too soon, just had a big chase around. they scuffle but theo is interested in mounting and rini certainly isnt so they got into a fight


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

will they bond if they keep fighting like this? :/


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2011)

Rini said:


> will they bond if they keep fighting like this? :/


So long as there is no blood drawn or lock on fights it is fine hun.
They will be trying to sort out their pecking order at the moment, just keep an eye on them and try to relax


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

yes, its normal, they just need to sort out who is boss, aslong as no blood is drawn just let them be


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

easier said than done to relax lol. obv youre meant to stop them before blood and i dont know when that is. wish they would just decide already :/


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

how long did it take for yours to sort out a pecking order?
Also what do you do at night about food and stuff if they still arent cooperating?


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2011)

Rini said:


> how long did it take for yours to sort out a pecking order?
> Also what do you do at night about food and stuff if they still arent cooperating?


My group of 5 took 2 days to sort themselves out, with food I just scatter fed them so their was no food bowl to get territorial over.


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

B3rnie said:


> My group of 5 took 2 days to sort themselves out, with food I just scatter fed them so their was no food bowl to get territorial over.


Did scuffle and fight throughout the 2 days? And did you feed them veg and/or pellets? would they fight over a water bowl (mine both drink from bottle like) or could they go without, I know Rini never drinks hardly anything but Theo is a monster at his water.


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

I wish you guys had videos of it going well/bad at the beginning lol


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2011)

Rini said:


> Did scuffle and fight throughout the 2 days? And did you feed them veg and/or pellets? would they fight over a water bowl (mine both drink from bottle like) or could they go without, I know Rini never drinks hardly anything but Theo is a monster at his water.


no fights, but there was occasional chasing which is why I slept next to their pen.
I fed pellets and veg but scattered it during the bond, I would put water bowls in for overnight as they might get caught on the nozzle during a chase.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2011)

Rini said:


> I wish you guys had videos of it going well/bad at the beginning lol


Are they just boxing at each other and chasing or is it circling?


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

B3rnie said:


> no fights, but there was occasional chasing which is why I slept next to their pen.
> I fed pellets and veg but scattered it during the bond, I would put water bowls in for overnight as they might get caught on the nozzle during a chase.


ah. well these chase each other but theres a lot of jumping and boxing and lunging when they get at it. dont think theyve bitten but i havent allowed it to go on long enough :/


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

They are both facing eachother when they scuffle which is the problem, one of them isnt running away :/


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

Just scatter the pellets, they wont starve if you dont though aslong as they have the hay on the floor, and put water down in a big dish (eg dog bowl) over night if they are calm in the morning you can leave the bowl in, but in my opinion a bottle is too risky when bonding as they can easily bolt into it and have an eye out

their behaviour sounds perfectly normal


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

B3rnie said:


> Are they just boxing at each other and chasing or is it circling?


They are boxing but when it gets heated they jump around squabbling so I dont know if thats circling.


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Lil Miss said:


> Just scatter the pellets, they wont starve if you dont though aslong as they have the hay on the floor, and put water down in a big dish (eg dog bowl) over night if they are calm in the morning you can leave the bowl in, but in my opinion a bottle is too risky when bonding as they can easily bolt into it and have an eye out
> 
> their behaviour sounds perfectly normal


Hmm I will have to find a heavy bowl, I dont have a dog bowl..... wonder if we still have the cat bowl.... lol I thought Theo was going to be totally submissive but he fights back lol XD I thought it was going to be less complicated and I still thought it was going to be hard! XD


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2011)

Rini said:


> They are boxing but when it gets heated they jump around squabbling so I dont know if thats circling.


That's fine hun, sounds perfectly normal


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

B3rnie said:


> That's fine hun, sounds perfectly normal


Thats good, I'm a little worried about them not working out things out before I go to sleep incase they hurt each other while im sleeping (even if I'm next to them)

God, I'm really doubting this. Just had a big fight, jumping up and kicking/boxing each other. I know they are both moulting a bit but Rini's fur is everywhere!


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

And then theo goes right back to flopping but they'll start violently all over again as soon as they meet!


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

try making the pen smaller


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Lil Miss said:


> try making the pen smaller


will that not make them fight more?


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

no when bonding less space is better, if you have a large carrier you can even put them in there and go for the "smush method" the smush method is the only way i was ever able to bond magic

when bonding less space is better


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

i've halfed it, 2'x2' now....... ok atm.... bit tension


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

I can attest to the small space. I used the famous Lil Miss bathtub method, worked a treat for my pain in the arse Bugsy and the very nervous Tilly. They are bezzie mates now after only a very short time in the bathtub, which moved to a small guinea pig cage and then their final hutch/run combo.

They scuffled a lot, chased, mounted, lots of fur flying, grunting, thumping. Now they dont have any of those behaviours. It can be a bit scary to watch but its just them duking it out


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> I can attest to the small space. I used the famous Lil Miss bathtub method, worked a treat for my pain in the arse Bugsy and the very nervous Tilly. They are bezzie mates now after only a very short time in the bathtub, which moved to a small guinea pig cage and then their final hutch/run combo.
> 
> They scuffled a lot, chased, mounted, lots of fur flying, grunting, thumping. Now they dont have any of those behaviours. It can be a bit scary to watch but its just them duking it out


thanks for the advice. well i think the bathtub is bigger than this pen so i will try this out for a bit


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Rini just lay down right next to theo, theo is tense tho... damn and shes up again :/


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

give them a while, they will settle down again hun


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Lil Miss said:


> give them a while, they will settle down again hun


lol just had a growl but thats cause they have to sit like a couple inches away from each other XD
Finally theo is eating rather than looking tense, rini is lying down nearby


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

oh nice rini, she decided she didnt want to lie next to theo so turned and shoved her butt in his face, no wonder there was a scuffle. And again that was by rini as she didnt like theo smelling/touching her butt..... i have an idiot rabbit my friends... lol


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Rini is a bully. Theo is trying to stay as still as possible because any little movement Rini comes and stamps on his face. Literally. He's not even reacting right now. Just lying with his legs out. But any movement and Rini is there, grunting and slapping him in the head, she pretty much stood on his face before :/ why can't rabbits be like dogs, they pretty much all get along! lmao XD anything more simpler than this!

Got loads of pictures but my wire for my phone is downstairs.


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Would be great to see them when you get chance to put them up


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

jo-pop said:


> Would be great to see them when you get chance to put them up


Only got pics of when it was going good LMAO I will have to put them up. I'm still worried about the over night business. Obv they dont have a litter tray in there and they are just on carpet, also, I cant stay awake forever :/

Theo doesnt seem to be fighting back atm but Rini is still being a cow, he can barely move without her hitting him in the head


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

dont worry she is just telling him she IS boss when she is happy that he accepts that she should stop man beating him :lol: :lol:


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

Lil Miss said:


> dont worry she is just telling him she IS boss when she is happy that he accepts that she should stop man beating him :lol: :lol:


He started fighting back again, I just dont know when this is gonna stop :/ they both get heated up when both are on the attack and I dont know if Theo will latch on, I dont want rini to get stressed and hurt :/ same with theo

gonna be a loooong night, i doubt I'll sleep at this rate


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Rini said:


> He started fighting back again, I just dont know when this is gonna stop :/ they both get heated up when both are on the attack and I dont know if Theo will latch on, I dont want rini to get stressed and hurt :/ same with theo
> 
> gonna be a loooong night, i doubt I'll sleep at this rate


It will get better. Mine chased for weeks and now there is othing at all around 2 months later, they are gorgeous together. My bugsy is also a bit of a div and can be nasty, and tilly like to be dominant and she humped him a lot in the beginning. They will work things out, just make sure theres no blood etc if there isnt then, as awful as it looks, they are just sparring


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> It will get better. Mine chased for weeks and now there is othing at all around 2 months later, they are gorgeous together. My bugsy is also a bit of a div and can be nasty, and tilly like to be dominant and she humped him a lot in the beginning. They will work things out, just make sure theres no blood etc if there isnt then, as awful as it looks, they are just sparring


TWO MONTHS.... I dont even know if my nerves can take another DAY of this! :'(


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Oh NO I mean its been 2 months since they bonded! not that they carry on like that for 2 months! lol

The slight chasing and humping I would say lasted about 2 weeks, but not fighting. The fighting stopped after about 2 nights.


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## Rini (Jun 23, 2010)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Oh NO I mean its been 2 months since they bonded! not that they carry on like that for 2 months! lol
> 
> The slight chasing and humping I would say lasted about 2 weeks, but not fighting. The fighting stopped after about 2 nights.


Well I hope their fighting stops soon.... like now hopefully lol... its just horrific to watch


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2011)

How are they doing today hun?
Did you get any sleep last night?


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

B3rnie said:


> How are they doing today hun?
> Did you get any sleep last night?


http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/174447-been-told-stop-todays-bonding.html


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