# Nipping and bullying of submissive dogs



## Altec (Jul 18, 2012)

Hello, I have joined because I need help with an issue I have been experiencing with my dog.

My dog Lola is a 3 year old German Shorthaired Pointer. The problem I have been having with her is her bullying behaviour towards other dogs. She has always been very rumbustious and enjoys rough play but has got worse in the last year. If a dog is running near her she will run up towards it at full pelt and chase it while nipping its bum. If she catches up with the dog, she will often try and stand over the dog, sometimes while growling. If the other dog submits she will try and dominate it and occasionally this can result in the other dog retaliating and a scrap breaking out. 

To the best of my knowledge she has never actually bitten another dog but the owners of the other dogs are never best pleased by her behavior. 

If the other dog is confident and unphased by her, she does not do any of the above. She will approach politely by lying down, stand still to be sniffed and then either play or move on. But if the dog is submissive or starts shrieking she will immediately try to dominate it and if it runs, will give chase while nipping at the dogs bum.

If I see another dog who I don't know coming I will leash her and ask if the dogs can meet if the owner wishes. However in areas such as woodland or bridleways this is extremely difficult unless she is kept on a lead at all times. This is something I would rather not do as her energy level is high and she would be impossible to exercise if kept on a lead at all times.

Is she a dominant dog? or is she just a bully? should I be doing anything to try and change this behaviour or is this just her personality? she is getting a bit of a reputation locally as being aggressive which I don't like.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

From what you've said, just a bully I'd reckon. Not that it makes her behaviour any more acceptable.


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## Altec (Jul 18, 2012)

Burrowzig said:


> From what you've said, just a bully I'd reckon. Not that it makes her behaviour any more acceptable.


I know it is not acceptable which is why I am asking for help.

I suppose my question is that if this is a personality problem, will I ever be able to change her behaviour.

She pinned a Spaniel tonight when it ran around a corner and submitted to her tonight. The owner was not happy.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sounds as if she needs to be on a lead until you have sorted this out 
I think you need to see a professional as we cannot assess her behaviour.
Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK

She could seriously hurt a dog and has the potential to create many fear aggressive dogs in your area


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

He is definately a very dominate dog. My lab will do this sometimes, but its strange how even when the other dog submits yours will still have a go.

With mine i taught a "enough" command, i dont mind rough play and the dogs sortin out whos boss etc. I know with my dogs when it has gone on too long and will say enough. 

To get this command i pulled my dog from the other an said the command. I tend to do this for a few seconds and then move on. 

It has seemed to work, but tbh i let him get on with it most of time, its alot of a front, all talk and teeth but are never actually used. I know when it is turning serious and is not just play or being rough and is turning aggresive. 

You could also just pull your dog away, completely ignore, put on lead and just walk away.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Yes this behaviour certainly needs addressing now.

You either need to contact a reputable behavourist in your area or, if that's too expensive, find a decent training class. A good trainer will be able to show you how to control your dog in these situations and your dog would learn some manners around other dogs in a controlled environment.

HTH


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

hayleyth said:


> He is definately a very dominate dog. My lab will do this sometimes, but its strange how even when the other dog submits yours will still have a go.
> 
> With mine i taught a "enough" command, i dont mind rough play and the dogs sortin out whos boss etc. I know with my dogs when it has gone on too long and will say enough.
> 
> ...


Does that not lead to the other dogs being scared though?

A lab does this to Kilo a lot who hates it, gets very unhappy - his owner just tells me he is 'gobby' or 'defending his pack' or 'dominant' and shrugs it off. The first time we met him she didn't fetch him until he'd done it a few times and still lets him rush over and perform his growling, hackling, 'noise and teeth' routine each time he sees us. Kilo has begun to react to these kids of dogs occasionally so I now avoid. The last time I saw her I went past the fields and she asked why we weren't coming in - I said it was because of her dog and her thought (and that of a walker with her) was that Kilo just needed to learn that her dog was 'Top Dog' around here so was his fault that it kept happening. Apparently as soon as Kilo demonstrates that he understands this dog is 'Top Dog' then the behaviour will stop .


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Your dog sounds like a bully, which can be a personality trait. Mine seems to be the same. Find more suitable playmates for your dog and don't let them off round smaller, shy dogs. It's not fair for your dog to be scaring and pinning down less confident dogs, it can have a really adverse effect on them.


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

Dogless said:


> Does that not lead to the other dogs being scared though?
> 
> A lab does this to Kilo a lot who hates it, gets very unhappy - his owner just tells me he is 'gobby' or 'defending his pack' or 'dominant' and shrugs it off. The first time we met him she didn't fetch him until he'd done it a few times and still lets him rush over and perform his growling, hackling, 'noise and teeth' routine each time he sees us. Kilo has begun to react to these kids of dogs occasionally so I now avoid. The last time I saw her I went past the fields and she asked why we weren't coming in - I said it was because of her dog and her thought (and that of a walker with her) was that Kilo just needed to learn that her dog was 'Top Dog' around here so was his fault that it kept happening. Apparently as soon as Kilo demonstrates that he understands this dog is 'Top Dog' then the behaviour will stop .


Usually the other dog either rough plays too for a bit and then its sorted between them or yes is scared. If this happens then my dog gets the command and moves on with me. I would never let it get to the point that the other dog is seriously scared. But its very unusual i have to, they normaly sort it out with some playing! But i dont normally meet different dogs on walks, its usually the same ones.

Its usually the other owner who lets it get out of hand, mine moves on and theres will follow and continue! Or they dont know when their dog is getting slightly too rough...


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

hayleyth said:


> Usually the other dog either rough plays too for a bit and then its sorted between them or yes is scared. If this happens then my dog gets the command and moves on with me. I would never let it get to the point that the other dog is seriously scared. But its very unusual i have to, they normaly sort it out with some playing! But i dont normally meet different dogs on walks, its usually the same ones.
> 
> Its usually the other owner who lets it get out of hand, mine moves on and theres will follow and continue! Or they dont know when their dog is getting slightly too rough...


What happens if you meet an elderly or disabled dog?


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

rona said:


> What happens if you meet an elderly or disabled dog?


My dog doesnt run full pelt and pin and dog down or anything, he will play bow etc. as soon as i say a command my dog will walk away from the other dog, he only goes up to a dog if i allow. I have no problem with my dog rough playing and sorting out differences with another dog, if i want him to ignore a dog he will.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I`m really not sure that `why` is particularly relevant with learned behaviour. She may have begun to do this due to nervousness or as a reaction to a stressful situation, then found it solved the situation so continued doing it, whereupon it became `what she does`. 
In other words she has habituated herself to doing this. 
So you need to interrupt the habit and to train an alternative behaviour for her. 
I do have a GSP so I understand how stubborn and wussy they are btw. 
I would go back to basics. Try gundog training which very much based on an `automatic` reaction to a command, using the dog`s drives? 
I would work really hard on interacting with the dog on walks, so she spends her time playing with me. That way I could keep her under control. 
I would teach a whistle recall till she salivates when she hears the whistle and is impelled to turn and come to you. 
This will allow you to stop the behaviour you don`t want. 
I would also look at training her round other dogs, encouraging her to ignore them and work with you. GSPs love to work.


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## Altec (Jul 18, 2012)

Twiggy said:


> Yes this behaviour certainly needs addressing now.
> 
> You either need to contact a reputable behavourist in your area or, if that's too expensive, find a decent training class. A good trainer will be able to show you how to control your dog in these situations and your dog would learn some manners around other dogs in a controlled environment.
> 
> HTH


I really cannot afford a behaviourist at this moment in time. We have done training classes and she is really good in them. It doesn't seem to make a difference on walks though when we come across submissive dogs.



Phoolf said:


> Your dog sounds like a bully, which can be a personality trait. Mine seems to be the same. Find more suitable playmates for your dog and don't let them off round smaller, shy dogs. It's not fair for your dog to be scaring and pinning down less confident dogs, it can have a really adverse effect on them.


She does play really well with lots of other dogs. The times she ends up bullying another submissive dog is when they take us by surprise and I don't have the chance to get her under control. Last night a Spaniel ran around the corner and surprised as both as we never normally see anyone at this place at that time as it was around 9pm. Because it ran fast towards her and submitted she pinned it.



ClaireandDaisy said:


> I`m really not sure that `why` is particularly relevant with learned behaviour. She may have begun to do this due to nervousness or as a reaction to a stressful situation, then found it solved the situation so continued doing it, whereupon it became `what she does`.
> In other words she has habituated herself to doing this.
> So you need to interrupt the habit and to train an alternative behaviour for her.
> I do have a GSP so I understand how stubborn and wussy they are btw.
> ...


Hi thanks, I do use a whistle but have got a bit slack recently. In situations where a submissive dog runs up to use and I don't get the opportunity to call her away, it all happens so fast, so I don't think a whistle will make much of a difference though.


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