# Training Discs - anyone use em???



## Guest (Jul 28, 2010)

Noticed there are a few threads at the moment relating to clicker training! have to admit despite my good intentions this is not a method I have really gone into!

Which brings me to my title!
What are your thoughts on training discs????
Was not really impressed myself, but wold love to hear your views!!
DT


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## lucysnewmum (Feb 25, 2010)

personally.....i dont like them.
here is a link to a site i researched whilst doing my online courses and looking into all kinds of dog training methods.

CanineConcepts: How to use dog training discs

by their own admission in the write up....
the discs can be distressing and stressful to the dogs. they also require impeccable timing and absolute confidence on the trainer's behalf. physically they are harmless enough (unless thrown at the dog in frustration) but mentally they could have an enormously negative impact on some dogs and i would err on the side of caution before recommending the use of these for nervous, unsocialised, or fearful dogs.

i would never advocate the use of them with aggessive dogs as the startle could actually induce a bite if the dog perceived the person holding the discs as a threat! with all the best intentions in the world i doubt anyone's ability to maintain a discrete, out of sight position for the discs AT ALL TIMES so that the dog doesnt associate the noise with the person!!!

dogs learn through motivation and reward. FACT

the best training method for any dog will be the one which taps into what motivates him, what he most treasures in life, what he really craves. this may be attention from the owner, it may be a game of tug, it may be food, or it may just be a good old fashioned belly rub. once you have worked out what the dog most enjoys you are well on your way to having a highly successful training method that will work for you and your pet.
:thumbup:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2010)

My biggest problem was working out how the discs would be effective from a distance! Will admit to chucking em on the ground in front on mine and they hardly flickered!! just keep to hear other peoples experiences!
DT

Thanks for your views lucys mum! much appreciated!


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## lucysnewmum (Feb 25, 2010)

welcome hun

the good thing about this forum is that you get lots of opinions....
its up to you to take the good, ignore the bad,,,and learn as you go

just like dog training really
gilly


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Distress, fear and startle (or should I say the avoiding of these yucky things) are also motivating  

To answer the question - never would use them. Know about them, saw them in action demonstrated when they were first developed and used by the late John Fisher, read Think Dog - could not bring myself to inflict them on any dog. Have always found a better way.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

I can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure I read something about training discs being a non-reward marker when used as intended. They are introduced like a reverse clicker: ie the dog does the unwanted behaviour, you drop the discs and remove any and all possible reinforcement for that behaviour. The idea being to give the dog a clear indication that the behaviour it is trying is a waste of time and will gain it nothing.

My concern with discs is that they can be used as a noise aversive, which is obviously a serious problem for any dogs with noise issues and still poses some risk of fallout.

I think, in the hands of an decent trainer, with a dog known to be not easily spooked or noise-sensitive, they could be a valuable tool. That said, with the potential for causing fear and distress (intentional or not) I personally don't see the point. You can just as easily use another signal as a non-reward marker, like then word "oops".


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Its like the interrupter discussion - if its not supposed to be aversive and just let the dog know that that's not the correct behaviour (as in a no reward marker) then why does it need to be loud, startling etc. Why not use a positive interrupter as the one demonstrated by Emily Larlham. My dog's NRM is a shake of my head - why would I throw metal discs?
John Fisher, who developed them, talks of them as being a no reward marker in the same book and at the same time as he was spouting on about dominance this and dominance that


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

We have used training discs in the past, but unfortunately timing is of the essence and most owner don't have it. The dog has to be conditioned into them correctly to start with, and not all dogs react well to the disappointment of not getting the food.
I believe in recent years and certainly when I did the coape diploma course the discs were not rattled to make a loud noise they were just brushed together, which I know is not how they were used when John first invented them. 
John fisher was a pioneer in behavioural work with dogs, he did get somethings wrong, like we all do. he did say that they had got it wrong about the dominance theory.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Jenny Olley said:


> John fisher was a pioneer in behavioural work with dogs, he did get somethings wrong, like we all do. he did say that they had got it wrong about the dominance theory.


He did indeed, and had much courage to admit he got it wrong.

I did try the discs with my dog but had no success. I had some instruction from a trainer, and then followed the instructions that came with the discs to the letter (bear in mind I had already clicker trained him). Timing wasn't the issue - it was the fact that he ignored them.

For some dogs, a well-timed "Oi!" works a heck of a lot better. Some dogs do need guidance directly from the owner and using a prop either scares them too much, or simply makes no difference. Or, much more likely, they are too stressed to register the clink of something. It was only when I started reading up on stress in dogs and discovering other possibilites such as Control Unleashed, that I finally managed to get a handle on my dog's issues.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I was going to try training discs with the twins. When I asked at our local pet shop about them they told me if I was going to use them to throw on the floor to interupt behaviour then a bunch of old keys is just as effective and a lot cheaper. Most people have old keys hanging round the house. 

I will say it didn't really work with the twins. They terrified the life out of Simba he is scared of everything and Amber didn't flinch just carried on doing whatever it was she was doing:lol:


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