# How soon after Phantom pregnancy to get spayed?



## kabooi (Oct 12, 2013)

Firstly, I am really sorry for posting so many threads on the subject, but I have one last niggle/question....

As a back story, my girl had her season, entered a phantom pregnancy which atm is full blown, we started her on galastop Tuesday to dry up her milk. She is now very sick and extremely depressed. 

The vet wants to spay her on the 27th of this month as that is what they usually do. She also has suffered with her season/phantom...

I am now not so sure that is right. I read that you should leave it weeks/months before spaying after a phantom to make sure the hormones are gone. Or that they can be forever 'trapped' in this hormonal state if you spay too soon. 

If I dont spay her on the 27th and leave it later, it will be too close to her next season to be able to do. But I dont want to make my girl even more confused and miserable.


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## j4nfr4n (Mar 10, 2013)

We adopted our cocker Misty in Feb this year. She was due to spayed the day before we were getting her from the rescue but when she was checked over at the vets she was found to having a phantom pregnancy so the rescue rang us and asked if we could collect her that day. We were then told to take her back six weeks later when everything was back to normal. Happily she had no problems at all just Indys toys suffered as she seemed to think all his cuddly toys were her pups. Bless her


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

kabooi said:


> Firstly, I am really sorry for posting so many threads on the subject, but I have one last niggle/question....
> 
> As a back story, my girl had her season, entered a phantom pregnancy which atm is full blown, we started her on galastop Tuesday to dry up her milk. She is now very sick and extremely depressed.
> 
> ...


What normally happens during a season is that the season goes through 4 stages.
Pro oestrus where you see the signs like the vulva swelling and the start of discharge time can vary but on average you are looking about 9 days.
Oestrus when they will ovulate, males will be super interested and the female will usually encourage it and this is the time when pregnancy occurs, this again lasts around 9 days but can be shorter or longer.
Di estrus, where the outward signs of the season have finished, but hormorne levels are still high and part of the overaries will still kick out progesterone (progesterone occurs in canine seasons pregnant or not which is why you cant use it as a pregnancy test for canines.) When a dog isn't pregnant the progesterone will continue to be produced during dioestrous and will gradually fade out but its not quick, and the diestrous stage as been quoted as long as 60/90 days. its in this stage because of the progesterone still present that phantoms and uterine infections most often occur.
Its not usually until the end of di-oestrous going into anoestrus when the hormone levels have returned to normal and the repro ductive tract is in a resting stage again that spays are normally done, on average about 12/13 weeks after a season starts.

Spaying during a false pregnancy can make the situation worse, because of prolactin and progesterone activity.

Galastop though contains something called cabergoline which inhibits secretion of prolactin by the pituitary gland and so any milk production and often the behaviour problems associated with a phantom.

It seems that advice is to wait for the false pregnancy to be completely over before spaying in all cases and also to wait for the progesterone levels to subside in anything I have read and seen previous. I have looked up a ceva site who are the makers of Galastop have a read through the whole thing in context but they say:-

Pseudopregnancy occurs during the metoestrus (progesterone dominant) phase and is associated with the production of the hormone prolactin.. Spaying during this period results in a rapid drop in progesterone. Progesterone inhibits prolactin production and therefore the drop in progesterone results in an increase in prolactin, which is the hormone responsible for the clinical signs of pseudopregnancy1

Why does it not resolve by itself?
The processes that result in normal spontaneous recovery following pseudopregnancy is unknown4. However it appears that spaying somehow stops this mechanism from working.

Is treatment using Galastop® effective in these cases?
A study published in the Veterinary Record recorded an 86% success rate when treated orally with Galastop® (carbergoline) at 0.1ml/kg for 5 days4. However, prolonged treatments of up to 3 weeks may be required in some cases3 and prevention is better than a cure.

When should a bitch be spayed following a season to reduce the risk of chronic false pregnancy developing?
It is important never to spay a bitch that is suffering from clinical pseudopregnancy1,2,3,4. However, as mentioned before, some pseudopregnancy cases can be silent and difficult to detect. There is a low risk of inducing chronic pseudopregnancy if a bitch is spayed within 5 weeks after the end of oestrous3. However, it is generally recommended to wait until the bitch is in anoestrous i.e. from 3 months after the end of oestrous. By this time, the ovaries (corpora lutea) have become inactive and the blood supply is minimal2. However, silent pseudopregnancy can still occur at 3 months after the end of oestrous1. Some authors therefore recommend spaying further into anoestrous, i.e. at 4 months after the end of oestrous1,4.

*
What should I do if an owner wants to spay a bitch suffering from pseudopregnancy?
It is advisable to treat the pseudopregnancy with Galastop® (carbegolone) at a dose of 0.1ml/kg per day. Usually a 4-6 day course is sufficient to resolve the clinical signs. After the clinical signs have resolved, it is advisable to wait 7 days before spaying to allow 3-4 days for the cabergoline to leave the system plus a few more days to ensure that the pseudopregnancy doesn`t return.
*

As said read the whole thing in full context too:-

Chronic False Pregnancy / False Pregnancy / Veterinary Zone / Galastop - Galastop

It does look like it can be done (see the part in bold.) but prior to this even on the ceva website, it seems to suggest ideally never during a phantom and preferably too at the end of di-oestrous/anoestrous which is what I have always found on most things I have ever read.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Wait as long as possible! I had the same situation as j4nfr4n, I got my girl from the rescue, she was due to be spayed with them but they sent her home with me & said that I could have her spay done through them once she'd settled in. I waited a few weeks & then decided to get her booked in when I had a week off work to look after her. I took her down and they did a pre-op & found her to be producing quite a lot of milk. She was showing absolutely no other signs of a phantom, not behaviourally or physically, so I didn't know until they checked her. They said to give it a couple of weeks and they'd see where she was at with it - and she was still not much better, so I was sent home again. The rescue were getting increasingly frustrated with the situation and were demanding she was spayed ASAP - they even told me to use one of their other vets "because they would just do it anyway" :scared: :scared: in the middle of a phantom!

This went on for about 5 weeks. I kept taking her every week and they still weren't happy enough to do it, which was fine by me, I would rather have waited until the phantom was absolutely over, but the rescue were getting so angry with me - like it was my fault! The vets were refusing to do it, I couldn't exactly just leave her there and walk out :lol:

Anyway, I was getting so many messages & I was under so much pressure from the rescue that I actually ended up in tears in the vets room, almost begging them to do it, so they agreed... and she was SO poorly afterwards. She was spayed in November last year and it was March this year before she was right again  I honestly thought she was going to die, she couldn't keep any food down at all, everything I tried just made her ill, I ended up feeding her tiny meals of 4 or 5 plain chicken chunks about 5 times a day, along with anti-sickness pills to try and stop it and the odd bit of rice to bulk it up a bit, she was like a bag of bones 

I wish to god i'd just stood my ground with the rescue, they had no idea what they were talking about and thought they knew better than the vets, I was scared they'd end up taking her back from me so only fought them for so long, but ultimately it was my girl who suffered! She's fine now, she has the odd bout of sickness and it seems to have left her with a very sensitive tummy, but as long as I am careful and don't give her too much of anything different, and don't change her food, she's fine. But my advice would be to wait as long as you can.


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