# Feeding a newfoundland puppy!



## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hello, I have a 12 week old newfoundland called alfie, and since we have had him he has been on royal canin giant puppy like the breeder was feeding him, but I've been told its actually not that good? Plus his stool is sometimes a bit soft, so not sure if that could be to do with the food or if its normal? Anyways we want to change his food to something better and we was looking at applaws large puppy which seems good and has a high meat content but the protein level is 38%, the calcium is 1.34. So we don't know if that will be ok for him or if the protein level is way too high but I read that if its from meat then its ok? We did our research before we got him but its just a bit confusing and we want to be feeding him the best! Thanks for any help


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## sprollie16 (Jan 3, 2011)

Sorry, never had a large breed puppy so no advice. Just wanted to say how utterly adorable Alfie is :001_wub:


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

haha Thanks


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## toffee44 (Oct 21, 2011)

AppleLaws is a fab food and you can buy it in [email protected] now. Other things to look in to are orijen and acana. Fish4dogs is personally what I would feed if not feeding raw. 

Lovely puppy hopefully a few of the newfie owners will see this in the morning.


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## toffee44 (Oct 21, 2011)

And your right royal Canin is rubbish food. Far too much rice and fillers.


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Ahh thank you! We are thinking of going for fish4dogs! Also looked at Wafcol Puppy Salmon and Potato 15Kg - Large/Giant, as it has the right levels of calcium ect...Crude Protein 26%, Calcium 1.1%, Fat Content 12%, Phosphorous 0.9% but I am still so confused! Ive never heard of wafcol before, and we don't want to buy a big bag of food which is no good for him! So greatful for any help!


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

Go on fish 4 dogs and buy a sample pack for £4 (no p&p). It is such good value and you can tell if he'll like it. Its also got salmon oil and sea jerky.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Beautiful Landseer Newfie, I'm in Canada so really can't help with UK foods I keep my Pyrenees at about 26 % protein I feed Summit and have used Blue Buffalo and Acana with my other dogs


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Will do, thank you luz! 
& thank you canuckjill! We are looking for a food thats not soo high in protein as we have been told by the breeder that is best, but also been told orijen is the best food but it has something like 40% i think which would be too high its soo confusing haha! I know we can get Acana so will have a look at that!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Acana is made by the same company as Orijen, it also depends on the protein source. But I did find Orijen to high in protein for my guys oops gals. Summit is made by the same company as Now, Acana and Summit aren't the top end of these two particular companies but both read quite good no wheat or corn. Both are made here in Alberta where I live and ingredients are locally sourced except the salmon of course.....more pics of your pup are a must BTW


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

Luz said:


> Go on fish 4 dogs and buy a sample pack for £4 (no p&p). It is such good value and you can tell if he'll like it. Its also got salmon oil and sea jerky.


If you phone f4d instead of ordering the samples online they send them out for free  I asked for samples for an adult and a puppy and received a massive box last week with 54 samples in it.
I also joined the puppy club because if I decide to feed f4d I get a good discount on puppy food just for being a club member. Membership was free and, for example, 12kg of complete puppy food would be £54 but is £45 if you join up. You get the normal bulk buy discounts on top of that too.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sarah1230 said:


> Hello, I have a 12 week old newfoundland called alfie, and since we have had him he has been on royal canin giant puppy like the breeder was feeding him, but I've been told its actually not that good? Plus his stool is sometimes a bit soft, so not sure if that could be to do with the food or if its normal? Anyways we want to change his food to something better and we was looking at applaws large puppy which seems good and has a high meat content but the protein level is 38%, the calcium is 1.34. So we don't know if that will be ok for him or if the protein level is way too high but I read that if its from meat then its ok? We did our research before we got him but its just a bit confusing and we want to be feeding him the best! Thanks for any help


All my newfies were raised on Royal Canin Giant breed baby, then puppy, then junior. Once neutered they went on to RC Maxi light. They are healthy, their coats are shiny and they enjoy their food. If that is the case with your dog, leave well alone.

From what you say, the Applaws does sound like it has rather a lot of protein and supplements and if you force those delicate joints to grow too quickly you can do an awful lot of damage. They grow five times faster than any other breed all on their own.

You need to make up your own mind about whether your dog is having the right food. Please do not take notice of what everyone else says; mostly they have never tried it, just looked at the ingredients and decided it is just expensive crap. I know the ingredients don't look too good, and I couldn't tell you why, but my dogs cannot eat anything else, I have tried. Newfies have quite delicate digestive systems, so if you do decide to change, please do so very, very gradually.

If you got your dog from a good breeder, you should go with what they advise.

Welcome to the forum by the way; the more newfies the better!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

A lot of breeders get a good deal with royal canin, and whilst it's not the worst food out there, it's also not very good value for money ingredients wise. 

I used Simpsons to wean my litter onto, and just put them straight onto adult lamb and potato, as I don't believe in life food stages, there's very little difference in ingredients for most foods. If you decide to swap over it's definitely worth taking the time to read through some of the stickies in the health and nutrition section about dry foods, it's not something I would jump into straight away, not even for free samples! My own dogs are very robust, and I know I could pretty much throw anything down them and they'd be fine, but you know your pup better than anyone else on here, and as with any feeding or health advice, I'd always err on the side of caution.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Dont know anything about dog foods but just wanted to say 

OMG your puppy is gorgeous!!!! :001_tt1: :001_tt1: :001_tt1:


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> A lot of breeders get a good deal with royal canin, and whilst it's not the worst food out there, it's also not very good value for money ingredients wise.
> 
> I used Simpsons to wean my litter onto, and just put them straight onto adult lamb and potato, as I don't believe in life food stages, there's very little difference in ingredients for most foods. If you decide to swap over it's definitely worth taking the time to read through some of the stickies in the health and nutrition section about dry foods, it's not something I would jump into straight away, not even for free samples! My own dogs are very robust, and I know I could pretty much throw anything down them and they'd be fine, but you know your pup better than anyone else on here, and as with any feeding or health advice, I'd always err on the side of caution.


Breeders get a good deal with most of the top dog foods, not just RC. I knew someone who bred, had a cheapo deal with RC for their dog food, but she fed her dogs on Bakers and sold the RC at a profit.

I think they should have to prove that is what they are feeding.


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Will be sure to put some more photos on here tomorrow canuckjill!  
Emmastace, thank you we may get some samples  as it seems to be very good food! newfiesmum he has been on royal canin all the time and since we have had him his stool has been soft, and we are not allowed to feed him till later tomorrow as his stools have been like water today so vet said to feed him rice and white fish tomorrow if not better then we have the vets monday! We was going to stay with royal canin but we can only see the food being the problem sooo :/, if we do change him we will be sure to introduce the new food slowly! His breeder has said she always sticks with royal canin, she did mention to try beta puppy but that looks like crap! & thank you!  & sleeping_lion I've read through the dry dog food index post, will be sure to read some more. we are not rushing as we want to be sure its ok for a giant breed! Thank you leam1307 hehe


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Breeders get a good deal with most of the top dog foods, not just RC. I knew someone who bred, had a cheapo deal with RC for their dog food, but she fed her dogs on Bakers and sold the RC at a profit.
> 
> I think they should have to prove that is what they are feeding.


I am a member of the breeders section for Simpsons, but I think RC give a bigger discount from what I've heard, they really push for breeders to send their pups home on RC, after all, that's where they are going to make their profit. I didn't actually wean pups onto puppy food, but the breeders discount applies to all products for Simpson's foods, so I just bought the adult lamb and potato. Instead of sending puppy owners home with enough to last a week or two I got them a discount off a 15kg bag and contributed towards the cost of it. That way I knew pups would be kept on the same food for at least a couple of months, and new owners wouldn't chop and change. They seem to have done very well on it!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sarah1230 said:


> Will be sure to put some more photos on here tomorrow canuckjill!
> Emmastace, thank you we may get some samples  as it seems to be very good food! newfiesmum he has been on royal canin all the time and since we have had him his stool has been soft, and we are not allowed to feed him till later tomorrow as his stools have been like water today so vet said to feed him rice and white fish tomorrow if not better then we have the vets monday! We was going to stay with royal canin but we can only see the food being the problem sooo :/, if we do change him we will be sure to introduce the new food slowly! His breeder has said she always sticks with royal canin, she did mention to try beta puppy but that looks like crap! & thank you!  & sleeping_lion I've read through the dry dog food index post, will be sure to read some more. we are not rushing as we want to be sure its ok for a giant breed! Thank you leam1307 hehe


Don't think about changing his food till he has his tummy back to normal. Keep him on the fish and rice. He is only a baby and you need to make quite sure he is back to normal. Although mine have always done well on RC, doesn't mean yours will, so take it slowly. Mine were on Barking heads salmon and potato for a while, but it was never as good for them RC, whereas lots of dogs do really well on it.

Good luck with him. I hope he is better soon, bless his little cotton socks


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Thank you  We are not going to change his food till he is better! I know all dogs are different so not all will do well on the same food, but we can only see it being the royal canin causing his stomach problems  bless him. Will also have a chat with the vet before we change the food! Might take a look at Barking heads salmon and potato, but we Have also looked at wafcol puppy salmon and patato which looks good just never heard of it! & Thank you!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sarah1230 said:


> Thank you  We are not going to change his food till he is better! I know all dogs are different so not all will do well on the same food, but we can only see it being the royal canin causing his stomach problems  bless him. Will also have a chat with the vet before we change the food! Might take a look at Barking heads salmon and potato, but we Have also looked at wafcol puppy salmon and patato which looks good just never heard of it! & Thank you!


Barking Heads do a puppy food as well. Wafcol is quite a good food, and I've tried that in the past but mine didn't like it. I also tried them on James Wellbeloved for sensitive tums, and that gave them the squelchies too. I always end up back with Royal Canin, so if you find one that suits him stick with it.

Funny thing is there is a woman I meet sometimes when I'm walking my dogs who has a five month old newfie puppy, and she has about six other dogs as well, all different breeds. She feeds them all on some cheap stuff because can't afford the good stuff. Mine have quite delicate digestions I think.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Be wary of discussing food choices with your Vet... many of them have waiting rooms full of crap like Science Plan and will advise you to feed that 

Your puppy is absolutely gorgeous and has a great name too  (my spotty Alfie said so!) would love to see more photos of him.

Good luck with sorting out the food / tummy problems. I know how upsetting it is...my Alfie never had consistently firm stools from day 1... he would go a few days of being okay, then be soft for a day or 2 then back to okay and so on. It was very worrying. As has been said, if you do change his food then make sure to do it really, really sloooooowly


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

The wafcol does seem good it says large/giant puppy so i guess it will be ok! its sounds good only has 26% protein and 1.1% calcium so thats good when he is better will order a small sample and see if he likes it! If not will keep trying to find one he is ok on!! Oh right, are border collie we had did great on the cheaper stuff! At that point we never knew how crap most the food was only started finding out when researching about newfies :/, Yeah sounds like it bless em! Thank you again for the help


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hello Coffee, ahh yes I notice they suggest the crap stuff our vet has been pretty good and said royal canin is good and also said maybe try arden grange? Think we are going to try the wafcol tho!  Thank you, and aww alfie is a good name! haha Will get some more pictures tomorrow and post them  It is horrible  Hopefully changing food will help and will do over how long do you suggest? a week maybe 2?


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

When I changed Alfie's food over at about 4 months I did it like this:

Days 1, 2 & 3: 80% old food / 20% new food
Days 4, 5 & 6: 60% old / 40% new
Days 7, 8 & 9: 50% / 50%
Days 10, 11 & 12: 25% old / 75% new
Day 13: 100% new

HTH


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Ok, thank you! We will do it that way to! x


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## Beau-a-saurus (Jan 26, 2011)

Sarah1230 said:


> The wafcol does seem good it says large/giant puppy so i guess it will be ok! its sounds good only has 26% protein and 1.1% calcium so thats good when he is better will order a small sample and see if he likes it! If not will keep trying to find one he is ok on!! Oh right, are border collie we had did great on the cheaper stuff! At that point we never knew how crap most the food was only started finding out when researching about newfies :/, Yeah sounds like it bless em! Thank you again for the help


We have had problems with Beaus tum so have recently put him on Wafcol salmon and potato so far I am really impressed, his tum still not perfect but skin, coat and his ears which have all been affected by other foods are really fab! I think it is a good food with good ingredients which is not too rich, not sure if you knew but you can get 2.5kg bags from pets at home so good size for when you are trying it :thumbup:

Good luck and we def need more photos


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Beau-a-saurus, oh right thats good!  Yeah it does sound pretty good! Oh right do they thanks.  We have just ordered 3kg for £10.99 on petplanet!
Not the best pics but will get some more soon! In these pics he has his bib on haha! Bit too big atm...


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

He is super dooper cute!


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## Beau-a-saurus (Jan 26, 2011)

:thumbup1:He is gorgeous! 

That price is not bad at all, I think we are paying around £10 for 2.5kg but I like the fact I can buy it locally. When he has been on it for longer and if he is happy I will buy a big bag and shop around 

Dog food is suck a minfield, we have done, raw, skinners, origen, JWB, applaws and now wafcol, I have worked out all grain including rice is not good but also chicken seems to disagree hence trying a sensetive fish based food. 

Good luck with Alfie, would love to see an Alfie progress post over on chat if you feel that way inclined, I bet they change so fast, be fascinating to watch


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hehe 
I agree, it's just confused me completely lol! & since he is a giant breed we need to be extra careful what we use so that confused me even more haha! Hopefully he does good on wafcol! 

Thank you, and I will do  but instead I may just post some updates and pics on this post every so often :')


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## Barryjparsons (Nov 27, 2011)

Lovely cute little newfie

Plenty of people feed and have fed RC giant with no issues. We fed our dane RC giant puppy up till 6 months, went onto adult and it just went straight through him.

Did James Wellbeloved for a short time before switching to raw.

It is not the best food but seems to be fine despite the fillers. Sometimes you just have to pick one and go for it.


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Thank you Barryjparsons 
Yeah thats true! We have ordered a small bag of wafcol like I said so will just have to see if he does better on this! If not will just have to slowly try another food till we find one that he does good on!


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## Newfinch (Oct 27, 2012)

Hi. The protein level you have quoted is way too high for a newfie pup. One of our girls (also Newfs) was fed Royal Canin by her breeder but she did not like it. We changed her to Arden Grange giant puppy/junior and haven't looked back. We also put our latest pup on the same food with great results


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## Beau-a-saurus (Jan 26, 2011)

Newfinch said:


> Hi. The protein level you have quoted is way too high for a newfie pup. One of our girls (also Newfs) was fed Royal Canin by her breeder but she did not like it. We changed her to Arden Grange giant puppy/junior and haven't looked back. We also put our latest pup on the same food with great results


I am not experienced in large breed pups but I have spent ages looking at dog food and I am a little confused by your comment, the food chosen is 26% crude protein the same as your chosen food? I know it is single source protein which some think is good others, prefer mixed sources but I would have thought the fact it is totally grain free and likely to be better for a pup who already seems to have a sensitive tum it would be a good bet?

Given you have Newfs I was interested in your thoughts (sorry I am always learning)


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## Newfinch (Oct 27, 2012)

The original post said the protein level was 38%. I was replying saying that 38% was way too high


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hi newfinch, we are going for food with lower protein now  but one thing I don't understand is royal canin has like 34% protein in which is high but lots of people use it? So I thought because applaws/orijen foods like that are meant to be good then the protein would be ok as it's from meat? It's just confusing but for now we are going to be trying a food with 26% protein and hoping he does well on it! :smile:


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Newfinch said:


> The original post said the protein level was 38%. I was replying saying that 38% was way too high


Why?

Protein level has nothing to do with bone growth. http://files.championpetfoods.com/High_Protein_and_Large Breed_Study.pdf is one study which shows this. What's important as far as I am aware is actually to restrict the carbohydrate input and the calcium and phosphorous ratio as these can influence bone growth. http://www.greatdanerescue.com.au/Docs/diet.pdf also has a section which they call the Protein Myth.

Raw feeders generally feed food which is high protein with very high (approx 70%) amounts of water. Remove the water "magically" and you get very high protein and minimal carbohydrates. I've been informed that the result is slow and steady growth rather that growth spurts which is ideal for a growing large breed puppy.

Now if a particular food "suits" a dog is a different kettle of fish but health isn't the issue or am I missing something?


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Sarah1230 said:


> Hello, I have a 12 week old newfoundland called alfie, and since we have had him he has been on royal canin giant puppy like the breeder was feeding him, but I've been told its actually not that good? Plus his stool is sometimes a bit soft, so not sure if that could be to do with the food or if its normal? Anyways we want to change his food to something better and we was looking at applaws large puppy which seems good and has a high meat content but the protein level is 38%, the calcium is 1.34. So we don't know if that will be ok for him or if the protein level is way too high but I read that if its from meat then its ok? We did our research before we got him but its just a bit confusing and we want to be feeding him the best! Thanks for any help


It's the calcium to phosphorous ratio you need to look at - if they are not balanced - it could spell trouble in terms of growth and possibly joint problems.

I haven't read all the responses - personally, I wouldn't feed a high protein food to my pups (I have Labs) - there are some that will argue it's the nature of the protein which is critical - I can neither deny or confirm that.

For every study you can find saying Protein isn't an issue - you will find another saying it isn't. Some time ago I did raise the question on here about the growth of hipscoring in small breeds (only really picked up newly in a breed where problems may be suspected) - and asked whether people felt there was any correlation between the higher protein levels in small breed foods compared with large breed.

I raise my pups on Pro-Plan Large breed now and then move them onto an adult food somewhere between 6 and 9 months.

I'm not familiar with the food you are talking about - but ensure there is a balanced calcium / phosphorous ratio - if calcium is mentioned without phosphorous - then tread carefully (and personally I would say avoid)


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

While talking about a large puppy.. just to mention... don't overexercise as this can also cause bone problems as they grow but that is probably another thread discussion.



> For every study you can find saying Protein isn't an issue - you will find another saying it isn't.


Can you post links or references for a study showing it is an issue? I haven't found any.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Goblin said:


> While talking about a large puppy.. just to mention... don't overexercise as this can also cause bone problems as they grow but that is probably another thread discussion.
> 
> Can you post links or references for a study showing it is an issue? I haven't found any.


There are many links out there indicating a correlation between high protein and hip dysplasia in particular (and increasing anecdotal evidence for elbow dysplasia)

Part of the reason is because protein increases growth speed which in turn can cause joints to misalign.

A few links - perceptions on both sides - not academic articles - but generally produced by those at the coal face following many years of breeding and associated research.

Hip Dysplasia

guarantee

Labrador Hip Dysplasia Information

Whilst I stand by my belief that (personally) I will lean towards lower protein diets for my pups - I do also now believe that calcium can also cause issues.

When Orijen originally came onto the market - I contacted the company and their UK suppliers about high protein levels and hip dysplasia and asked for advice, guidance and evidence on it not having the potential to contribute to, or cause joint issues - no-one ever replied 

Diet of course is just one issue, genetics we know play a role, so can trauma during birth and during a pups time in the litter - not to mention the nature and level of exercise given - it is undoubtedly a minefield - and inevitably - when someone has done everything right and still ends up with an issue (been there, done that, got the t-shirt) you question every single element of how you raised that pup


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

The food im on about has Crude Protein 26%, Calcium 1.1%, Fat Content 12%, Phosphorous 0.9% which ive been told is fine! We know not to over exercise him ect ect, just wanted to know foods suitable for him to try


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

swarthy said:


> A few links - perceptions on both sides - not academic articles - but generally produced by those at the coal face following many years of breeding and associated research.


Intrigued as not even references to studies. I do agree with general calorie intake and calcium/phos but seems to me the high protein bit seems to me to be a continuation of a myth. Logically, given a natural diet, protein should not be a problem. Would be interested (as I don't move in breeder circles) if you knew of growth rates for dogs fed raw. You could say this is certainly a high protein diet. Do they suffer with fast growth and bone problems?

Not picking.. just interested.


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## HannahCB (Nov 3, 2012)

Hi, I have a 5year old newfie called Noah and we have always fed him on Acana dog food, and he has done beautifully on it! his coat is in excellent condition and he has a clean bill of health, Also because it is a high quality food you dont ned to feed to much of it, My boy is 61kgs and eats 450grams a day. x


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## Sarah1230 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hello HannahCB.  Oh right cool, atm we are slowly starting him on wafcol large/giant salmon and potato but if he still has trouble i will be sure to have a look at acana! Thank you  Im no good at knowing things like that how many cup fulls would 450 grams be? x


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Goblin said:


> Intrigued as not even references to studies. I do agree with general calorie intake and calcium/phos but seems to me the high protein bit seems to me to be a continuation of a myth. Logically, given a natural diet, protein should not be a problem. Would be interested (as I don't move in breeder circles) if you knew of growth rates for dogs fed raw. You could say this is certainly a high protein diet. Do they suffer with fast growth and bone problems?
> 
> Not picking.. just interested.


Sorry - only just seen this. I do have references to high protein against bone / joint issues - I will have a dig around for you on my old machine - it also does certainly seem to be a general perception.

In terms of raw, I've only raised one on raw and her hip score is three times the current breed average (elbows perfect)  all the dogs after her have been raised on Pro-Plan or Arden Grange and the highest hipscore I have is 9 - their upbringings haven't been different in any other way terms exercise etc

One, even had quite a nasty pull when she was 6 months old (scared the hell out of me and limping like a good un) - scored at nearly 2.5 - she came back 3/4

Who knows all the answers? I guess in this area we will

ETA - a little while ago I started a thread on this topic - as the most recent reports show quite an uplift in the hipscoring of smaller breeds.

There was a time when one size really did fit all - but these days - many small breed puppy foods are higher in protein than their large breed equivalent - merely an observation on my part, but again, could there be a correlation? I don't see why a breed would start testing without good reason - and like many others - getting scores across the scale.


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## purpleisa (Nov 4, 2012)

Hello 

I'm a newbie to the site and a newbie to newfies lol.
Sorry I can't really offer advice - in fact I'm looking for some too (about to start a new thread as circs are different hope that's ok) We got our four year old newf girl from a family who had to give her up for medical reasons 

Just wanted to thank you for posting and all your respondents - I now have lots of food for thought  

Lx


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## Skoust (Feb 12, 2012)

We've got a 13 week old newf who's fed raw and doing really well on it so far! He was on Royal Canin Giant Puppy at the breeders but he really wasn't even that keen on it. 

A good resource is newf.net (think it's currently down atm!) but there's a whole wealth of newf specific experience and they're a very friendly group of people


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