# Stud Dog- Bitches owner going back on agreement. Please help?



## KurroiSakmoto (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi I'm new here with a big-ish problem so any advice would be helpful
I'm the proud owner of a KC reg black and white long haired chihuahua dog, we decided after he turned 2 in may that we would stud him out as we wanted another puppy with his lines. We set up an ad and got a lot of interest. A young woman emailed us saying that she wanted to use our dog to stud her bitch and before we could say anything about us wanting a puppy she offered us pick of the litter! We was thrilled! We set up when we was going to go up (as they were in a different city) and she explained to us why she wanted to breed as her son wanted to get into the show ring. The day we arrived before our dog studded we both signed a contract saying that we would get pick of the litter. Our dog studded the bitch twice and she did become pregnant. The puppies were born on the 15th October 2010 she only had two a boy and a girl however because the bitches owner was inexperienced when the little boy got stuck in the birth canal she didn't know how to help and by the time the emergency vet arrived the puppy had been stuck far too long and had died before the vet could help. So there was only one little girl surviving, the woman emailed us what happened and our heart sank. At the end of the email she said that after what had happened they would be definitely be keeping the girl, which confused us because we was supposed to the puppy even if there was only one? We never discussed any money it was all about the puppy, if we'd discussed money in the contract I would happily take a stud fee. Because she went back on the agreement I refused to sign the papers so she could register the puppy and now she has emailed us saying that because I wouldn't sign the papers she's now going to sell the little girl because she's not registered. We thought she was going to keep the puppy because after everything the puppy meant to much to her? Then why would she sell her now? If she doesn't want the puppy shouldn't we get her? Shouldn't we of been first priority because of the agreement? We would love to have the puppy but we don't know what to do in this situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you For Reading
Kurroi


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Couldn't you make another agreement to have the pup in both names until such a time that you can do a repeat mating and get your pick of litter, then if she wants the little girl all to herself she can pay you half to have her in her sole name ?

Surely something along these lines might solve the problem.

Best of luck whatever you do


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## pop pop (Nov 4, 2010)

cant realy help but how sorry to hear of your situation, we have the same contract with the stud we have used on out girl,however we did bring up the fact of if theres only one pup as we are keeping back a girl ourselves, we decided before mating took place if only one pup we would pay the stud a fee and keep the pup ourselves,in the eyes of the law unless the contract was done through a solicotor then its not realy woth the paper its wrote on to be honest,can understand in the eyes of the other owner about wanting to keep the pup and if your refusing to sign the papers then they cant show it like they were wanting to causing more friction between yourselves, maybe see if they would sell to you at a reduced rate say maybe minus the stud fee?


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## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

why dont you them keep the pup and just ask them to pay a stud fee instead?


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## Pug_D (Feb 21, 2010)

I'd ask for a stud fee, sign the papers and let her show the girl and keep her.

Tough as its not what was planned but all you have lost in this is the time going there and your boys services.

Shes put alot of time and money into the litter and I would say in these circumstances it seems fairer for her to keep the pup and you just take afee.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Sounds a bit of a nightmare problem all round - however, what I will say is this

The bitch owner has done all the hard work - quite often, a stud owner will mentor the bitch owner - which you clearly weren't able to do.

I have to say, agreement or not, it is her litter at the end of the day, and she can chose whether to sell or keep the pup.

YOU are also in breach of contract, as you have allowed your dog to cover the bitch and are now refusing to allow her to register the pup - effectively you are calling this woman a liar - I would be furious if I was in her shoes - contract or not - when you have had a litter and gone through the heartbreak of losing babies and trying to raise a singleton pup and all the hassle that goes with it - you may understand.

I would ask for a stud fee and allow her to register the puppy - at the moment you are playing tit for tat and getting nowhere fast.

Look at it this way - IF this puppy goes into the showring and achieves anything - then there will be other bitch owners wanting to use your boy - and then, from lessons learnt, you can agree a stud fee or POL (in my own breed stud fees are generally LESS than the cost of a pup).

I would say it's been a lesson learnt for everyone - although she is in breach of contract, I can fully understand why she is feeling the way she is after all the heartache she has been through - believe me, your devastation is nothing to how it will have affected her - and you are now also in breach of contract - but two wrongs don't make a right.

Get a stud fee, let her register and keep the pup, and consider it a lesson learnt for everyone for the future.

If you are going to stand your dog in the future, then it may well be worth doing some research on breeding yourself and getting a mentor so that you are able to guide future bitch owners through the whole proces.

I had two mentors and the stud dog owner for my first litter - I am now on my second generation, and they STILL take an active interest in what I do and how the grand-children are getting on.


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

swarthy said:


> Sounds a bit of a nightmare problem all round - however, what I will say is this
> 
> The bitch owner has done all the hard work - quite often, a stud owner will mentor the bitch owner - which you clearly weren't able to do.
> 
> ...


Swarthy yet again spot on post, agree totally with all thats been said in this post


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Wow, cant believe this is even a question.

Absolutely the bitch owner should keep the pup and should pay you a stud fee. Cant believe you'd take the ONLY pup in the litter and hold the woman to ransom over it.

Bearing in mind that the cost of a chihuahua is upwards of £1000 and the average stud fee is £200 i think you are asking a lot to have a pup in lieu of a stud fee anyway. The usual arrangement in this breed is to pay a stud fee then offer the stud owner second pick after the bitch owner.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

This is one of the problems of trying to work a system without cash changing hands, I'm afraid. It's all very well if the stud fee is similar to the cost of a puppy - until something goes wrong. I have seen very good friends become arch enemies after such an agreement was misunderstood by one side or the other.

Now I'm a cat breeder not a dog breeder, but if someone paid me a stud fee and then only ended up with one live kitten, I'd be offering a free return anyway. So if the agreement was pick of the litter (I'd have to be very lucky, in my breed the kitten price is about double the stud fee) then no kitten for me, but hopefully the girl's owner would agree to try again, assuming there was no medical reason not to.

Liz


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

thats why i'd NEVER EVER get into any kind of contract regarding a dog.

Surely the simplest thing to do is for bitch owner to pay a stud fee, she keeps the pup and you sign the stud form.


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## sharpeilover (Aug 9, 2010)

Just a question have you had your boys sperm count tested at all??

Only reason I ask is I know some breeders who have their boys sperm tested every year and if there are two or less pups in a litter they don't charge a stud fee or take a pick and the bitch owner can use the stud again free of charge.

Hope that makes sense!! novice here!!! :thumbup:


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

sharpeilover said:


> Just a question have you had your boys sperm count tested at all??
> 
> Only reason I ask is I know some breeders who have their boys sperm tested every year and if there are two or less pups in a litter they don't charge a stud fee or take a pick and the bitch owner can use the stud again free of charge.
> 
> Hope that makes sense!! novice here!!! :thumbup:


You are right in that some stud owners do give a second mating in the case where there is singletons in a litter - but - I do like the way it is all potentially all down to the dog - the bitch could have gone over for mating - she may not be particlarly fertile etc etc - as someone recently told me - with a maiden - it's not just about proving the dog, but proving the bitch as well


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

sharpeilover said:


> Just a question have you had your boys sperm count tested at all??
> 
> Only reason I ask is I know some breeders who have their boys sperm tested every year and if there are two or less pups in a litter they don't charge a stud fee or take a pick and the bitch owner can use the stud again free of charge.
> 
> Hope that makes sense!! novice here!!! :thumbup:


I know many people who have this arrangement when their dogs are used. Given the cost, risk and amount of work the bitch owners have had to do, I think the OP is totally out of order. If it was me, I would just let them keep the puppy and consider payment of a fee as a bonus.


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