# Aludex



## Maddiemoosmum (Sep 7, 2013)

Hi guys needs some reassurance really. 

Lexie our 7 month old staffy pup has had a nasty skin problem from the age of 4 months. Our vet says she suspected demodex but didn't want to give us the aludex unless a last resort. She tried weekly advocate, steroids and antibiotics at different times but nothing really worked . 

So yesterday I decided to take her back and saw another vet who said she looked very like demodex and did skin scrapes to find she was crawling with mites. He gave us the aludex and some malaseb to use every five days. We are to go back and see him after 4 baths. 

So I gave her the first bath in it yesterday and she was fine up till about 9pm last night. She started kind if like shivering and went all drowsy and just went to her crate and stayed there all night till bed time. I just put i down to the fact that she had a very stressfull day. I know drowsiness is a side effect. This morning she is pretty much the same. Very quiet, shivering in and off and now I notice that her skin is very pink and looks puffy on the bald areas. 

I just need to know other people's experiences with this stuff. It's killing me seeing her like this cus she is usually such a live wire. Are these symptoms normal? Will this happen everytime I bath her in it? Will she be like this for the next month? Should I spk to my vet?

Thanks in advance xx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Maddiemoosmum said:


> Hi guys needs some reassurance really.
> 
> Lexie our 7 month old staffy pup has had a nasty skin problem from the age of 4 months. Our vet says she suspected demodex but didn't want to give us the aludex unless a last resort. She tried weekly advocate, steroids and antibiotics at different times but nothing really worked .
> 
> ...


I have used Aludex many years ago for sarcoptic mites which it also treats, pre spot ons being available and you didn't have any other choice, and didn't have any problems at all and that was after several baths in it to complete the treatment.

I have found more details on aludex and the use.

Side effects noted in some dogs.

Adverse reactions
Aludex treatment can lead to known side-effects in a small numbers of dogs. In rare cases neurological disorders (ataxia, lethargy, sedation and CNS depression), skin reactions (erythema, pruritus and dermatitis), digestive tract disorders (diarrhoea and emesis), salivation, anorexia, shallow breathing, dyspnoea, bradypnoea, bradycardia and allergic reactions (oedema) could be observed. Most of these signs are due to alpha-2-adrenoreceptor agonistic effects. Signs are usually transitory and generally resolved without treatment. If symptoms persist, the dogs should be washed in soapy water (not washing-up detergent), dried and warmed. The alpha-2- adrenoreceptor antagonist, atipamezole hydrochloride, may be used at a dose of 0.2 mg/kg body weight by intramuscular injection to reverse these side-effects.

It is apparently possible to overdose them too. Signs of overdose can be.

Overdose
Even after accidental overdose, adverse effects should not exceed those described under section "Interactions". Refer to this section for recommended actions. Clinical signs of toxicity include: 
i) Signs of CNS depression eg. drowsiness. 
ii) Reduced body temperature. 
iii) Reduced heart rate and blood pressure. 
iv) Increased blood sugar levels (alpha-2-adrenergic agonists are known to reduce insulin release, eg. clonidine). 
v) Delayed gastro-intestinal transit.

Also what dilution did you use? It looks like there are different dilutions that you should se according to size of the dog.

Demodectic mange
Use 50 ml Aludex per 5 litres of water for small dogs or 100 ml Aludex per 10 litres of water for large dogs. Whatever the quantity of wash required, it is essential that the initial concentration is not varied from 1 part Aludex to 100 parts water (0.05% amitraz). 
Repeat the treatment at intervals of 5-7 days until neither live mites nor viable eggs can be identified microscopically by skin scrapings. 
Alternatively, continue treatment for at least 3 weeks after all overt clinical symptoms have subsided.

It does also say this too.
Special warnings for each target species
For the treatment of demodectic mange, use at 25 ml in 5 litres / 50 ml in 10 litres or 0.025% (half normal rate) for severely debilitated dogs.

It looks like in some cases you should use a half normal rate of dilution or can.

Is there any chance she could have licked and ingested the treatment when wet?

Special precautions for use 
For use on dogs only. For external use only. For use only under the supervision of a veterinary surgeon. Dogs should be prevented from licking the fur after treatment. For the treatment of demodectic mange in severely debilitated dogs use 25 ml of Aludex in 10 litres of water (half the normal dose rate).

Don't know how long ago she had the last Advocate treatment?
There seems to be a warning about simultaneous use with other certain things and flea and parasite treatments too.
Interactions
This product can be used with other dermatological preparations, except those that are water-repellent and with anthelmintics. Concurrent use with other alpha-2-adrenoreceptor agonists is not recommended. Do not use simultaneously with other ectoparasiticide preparations.

Going by her reactions and also the fact that she is still like it this morning I would contact your vet, it does suggest re bathing them to wash it off if there is adverse effects but there also appears to be an antidote that can be given in certain circumstances if needs be.

Will link you to the full information from which the above advice is taken from as there may be more things that you need to now about use etc.

Aludex 50 g/a concentrate for cutaneous solution - Product Data Sheet


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## Maddiemoosmum (Sep 7, 2013)

Hi sled dog hotel, 

The vet told me to put 10ml of aludex in a litre of water and sponge it on to the skin. There is a very slim chance she could of licked herself but I literally sat out in the garden with her keeping her occupied while he dried so I really don't think she could of ingested it. 

She had her last advocate nearly a month ago and he vet also asked this so was aware. 

After posting this I did ring the vet for advice and was told that as far as the skin goes that's normal but her other symptoms are not from the aludex. And that she was probably just sore and taking it really badly. To monitor her and if anything changes to ring again and take her in. As it happens she has perked up a bit this afternoon but now she seems to be really itchy or something cus she is rubbing herself up against things a lot. 

The thing that's most concerning is that her next bath is on weds and wonder if she is going to react like this again? Does it become less bad for her each time as th skin gets used to it or what? 

I hate seeing her like this, she has just been tempted to eat with some nice fish as suggested by the vet so she seems one step better. :crying:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Maddiemoosmum said:


> Hi sled dog hotel,
> 
> The vet told me to put 10ml of aludex in a litre of water and sponge it on to the skin. There is a very slim chance she could of licked herself but I literally sat out in the garden with her keeping her occupied while he dried so I really don't think she could of ingested it.
> 
> ...


I don't see how he can say it deffinately isn't anything to do with the Aludex when the symptoms say the following even though it may say it is a small number of dogs its still listed as a known side effect so it obviously can and does happen. As well as lethargy and depression and sedation which basically eans sleepiness, it also mentions skin reactions and the puritis is just the medical name for itching, Erythema mentioned means redness due to irritation or inflammation amongst other things. so what she has is in fact known listed side effects it would seem.

Adverse reactions
Aludex treatment can lead to known side-effects in a small numbers of dogs. In rare cases neurological disorders (ataxia, lethargy, sedation and CNS depression), skin reactions (erythema, pruritus and dermatitis), digestive tract disorders (diarrhoea and emesis), salivation, anorexia, shallow breathing, dyspnoea, bradypnoea, bradycardia and allergic reactions (oedema) could be observed. Most of these signs are due to alpha-2-adrenoreceptor agonistic effects. Signs are usually transitory and generally resolved without treatment. If symptoms persist, the dogs should be washed in soapy water (not washing-up detergent), dried and warmed. The alpha-2- adrenoreceptor antagonist, atipamezole hydrochloride, may be used at a dose of 0.2 mg/kg body weight by intramuscular injection to reverse these side-effects.

The dose listed for demodex in small dogs is 50ml to 5 litres of water that would equate to 10ml to 1 Litre of water, which is what he told you to do and sponge it on, so if that's what you did its not an overdosed amount and in accord to the manufacturers instructions.

It does say
Special warnings for each target species
For the treatment of demodectic mange, use at 25 ml in 5 litres / 50 ml in 10 litres or 0.025% (half normal rate) for severely debilitated dogs.

So for debilitated dogs what they are saying is do it at half the dose for small dogs 25ml aludex to 5 Litres of water as opposed to the full 50ml to 5 litres. That would work out to 5ml of Aludex to 1 Litre of water if you are making up a litre.


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## Maddiemoosmum (Sep 7, 2013)

So what your saying is that now she is in this state I should use 5ml to a litre for next bath? 

I'm so frustrated by all this I have a good mind to stop the treatment completely.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Maddiemoosmum said:


> So what your saying is that now she is in this state I should use 5ml to a litre for next bath?
> 
> I'm so frustrated by all this I have a good mind to stop the treatment completely.


If symptoms persist tomorrow then I would contact the vet again and see what you should do.

Otherwise you could try the further diluted dose, it must be effective still to kill the mites as I wouldn't think it would be on the instructions I linked you too. Yes for debilitated dogs it says what would be 5ml instead of 10ml of aludex to 1 litre of water.

What she has is mentioned as possible side effects as I said. Maybe you should email the link to your vet if he doesn't think it is so he can see it. In fact any adverse effects of medications should be reported.

Actually reading back over your 1st post I notice you said she had been on steroid treatment which likely wouldn't have helped if the problem has been demodex mites all along. Demodex are carried by a lot of dogs, a healthy immune system however keeps their numbers down to a minimum so they don't cause problems like hair loss etc. Its often seen in pups more as they have immature immune systems anyway and with the further assault like stress on rehoming and leaving mum and littermates, stress can lower the immune system more. Then there is the vaccinations that they of course do have to have to have to protect them from possibly fatal diseases but that's still another assault on the immune system. Because of this the mites can multiply even more causing problems further. Steroids although they have anti inflammatory properties and can help with things like allergies to alleviate symptoms but cant cure it, they wont work on demodex in fact they can make it worse as steroid treatment supresses the immune system, that's why it works on allergies, an allergy is the immune system going overboard against the allergen present. But with demodex it would possibly make it worse because the immune system is suppressed even further, and as its what keeps the mites under control they would likely multiply more. Antibiotics will only work for bacterial skin infections or if secondary bacterial infection was present usually due to itching and scratching but again would no effect on the mites.

Some puppies with mild demodex infection can actually grow out of it in time as their immune systems mature it starts to get the mites under control. There are two forms of demodex localised which is classed as up to 5 isolated patches and generalised which is classed as more then 5 patches and/or wider areas.

I only know of two things for demodex and thats the advocate and aludex.
If she was on longer term steroid treatment with the advocate too that's maybe why it didn't work.

I have just looked up the recommendations for using advocate for demodex.
They recommend a dose every 4 weeks for 2/4 months for mild to moderate infestations, for severe cases they say it may require prolonged and frequent treatment in some cases even once weekly. Treatment should be continued in all cases until clear skin scrapes are negative for 2 consecutive months.
It says if there is no response or a reduction in the mite count after 2months treatment then other methods of treatment should be considered.

More on advocate and uses the info above is from on link.
NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Advocate Spot-on Solution - Dosage and administration

It might be worth giving her a supplement to improve her allround general health and immunity, I use Bionic biotic which has several 
health benefits including immunity and skin and coat health in general.
Bionic Biotic | Pooch & Mutt

There are other veterinary strength skin supplements too that might help you can buy those on line, or get them from the vet if shes insured they may be able to be included in your treatment plan/ claim even.

Viacutan Plus Capsules 550mg EFA - From £10.18

Efavet 330 Efavet 660 EFA Capsules - From £24.36

Giving her some supplements will not do any harm just improve skin health and coat condition.


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## Maddiemoosmum (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks sled dog hotel, you have been very helpful. :smile5:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Maddiemoosmum said:


> Thanks sled dog hotel, you have been very helpful. :smile5:


Glad it was some help. Hope she is OK and you get the problem under control.


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