# Sad decision but I need to protect my pack



## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

We spent tonight at the emergency vets, Diesel attacked Keyusha 

there was no growling, no lip curling, nothing that I personally could see (or the OH, and he was right next to them) that could have been given as a warning, it just... happened... yes I know there must have been some body language going on but nothing my not so well trained eyes could see.

It wasnt just a scuffle, we've had scuffles & this was different, it was silent, and bloody, very bloody, there is blood up the walls (where is was spurting out of her neck), there is blood on my clothes and halfway up my arms, it's everywhere. I thought he had hit her jugular, turned out to be a minor artery which has sealed itself (we applied pressure immediately after separating), had it been an inch lower it would have been her jugular.

He was determined, when my guys scrap (rarely) I can break it up with voice commands, but he wasnt letting go, it took the 2 of us (me & OH) to get him off, me digging my fingers into his stomach (seemed better than kicking) and OH holding his mouth still so he couldnt shake her and trying to prize his jaws open. Had it been just me here, I wouldnt have been able to stop it.

Luckily she got away with just a very deep puncture wound, which is still seeping blood now, and is very swollen, she's been given anti-biotics, anti-inflammatories & a painkiller

This isnt the 1st time he's gone for her, its always keyu, which is the scary thing because the other 2 would stand more of a chance, Keyu is small and very light, he is now heavier than her and incredibly strong. Keyu's never gave him any reason to attack her, last time he attacked her she had gone into a playbow, which he understands as they used to do it all the time. 

So after much discussion (and tears), we've come to the decision that we have to rehome Diesel. I love him, but I no longer trust him around my other dogs, I am home alone a lot of the day, if something were to happen then I highly doubt I could get him off her. He is not safe to be around other dogs, and I have to protect the dogs who were here 1st. 

I'm not in a position to be able to afford professional help, and even with help I still wouldnt trust him, from now on he is not going to be loose around my dogs without a muzzle on. We will be getting help from rescues with finding him a new home. 

Before anyone has a go, we were told many times that Diesel was dog friendly before we said we'd take him & he wasnt, I have tried my best with him, but I can't put my other dogs at risk any longer.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I would do exactly the same if one of mine were to attack another like that. Kali is nasty at times especially to Marty and though she has drawn blood it's only ever been a scratch and she stops immediately I shout at her. Even with her it's a nightmare at times, she can only integrate with Flynn (her son) but you can't fuss him when she's around or when you come in and they both come up for fuss you have to get Kali out of the way as she can attack just because she wants attention. You realy do live on tenterhooks and it's a right bore!

Sympathise with you completely and unless you live with a two pack household, baby gates separating them and watch everything you do to protect the innocent from being attacked for no reason, you wouldn't understand what a rotten situation you are in. Just stepping over the baby gate once, holding my handbag up provoked Kali to attack Marty and like you say no warning to my knowledge, she just thought I had something in my bag which was hers - nightmare and so unfair on the unsuspecting attacked dog who has done nothing to deserve it. 

Good luck with re homing and don't feel bad as you have other dogs to consider too. Hope your girl recovers quickly, poor baby! xx


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

Oh, how terrible for you. I'm so very sorry. 

I hope you find a good home for Diesel where he can be the only-dog of experienced and loving dog owners.

Poor Keyusha. She is SO lucky that Diesel missed any major blood vessels. Next time could be far, far worse.

I think you've made the right decision for your family and don't weaken. Malmum has managed her situation differently and I really respect BOTH decisions. You can't let Keyusha remain in great danger, something has to change for her sake.

I wish you all the best in managing the situation until Diesel can be re-homed and I hope that the right home for Diesel presents itself, quickly.

Deepest sympathy to you all, it really is a rotten situation.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2012)

sadly it was never destined to work. i remember your first post when you were considering taking him and do remember shaking my head knowing it would probably more than likely end like this  if i remember right i did post asking you to forward the previous owners onto american bulldog rescue because he is a cross isnt he? , in light of whats happened i really think you need to do that now so he can be found a specialist home with no other dogs. i`m sorry this has happened and hope your dog heals well


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Am so sorry to hear this, what a horrible experience.

When we first got Roxy she started to attack Toby (luckily no serious injuries though) so I can understand how stressful this is. We were luckly in that as we only had 2 dogs we were able to manage the situation the fact that she had never caused a serious injury made it easier. 

It was a horrible time though as we could never relax for months & her behaviour was affecting Toby, he started to change in to a nervous dog. If it had carried on then I also would have had to have made a difficult deciuson.

I really hope Keyusha is ok after this & that Diesel finds a new home soon.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

im so sorry this has happened to your girl.

i really do think you are doing the right thing though, it doesnt appear safe to keep him with the other dogs.

good luck with everything.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry  I'm glad your girl is okay though, hopefully she heals quickly.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

What a shame 

You mustn't feel like you've failed, things don't always work out for the best and if your dogs are at risk of getting hurt, it wouldn't be sensible to keep Diesel. He can't be happy in their company and they won't be happy in his.

I'd recommend you try and get help from a breed rescue, as they'll be able to properly assess him and find the right sort of home for him.

Best of luck you, I hope Keyusha is okay and that you're able to sort something out for him quickly. Keep us updated x


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Are you going to hold him in foster until a home can be found or put him in rescue?


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## peanut651 (Oct 7, 2011)

sid&kira said:


> Before anyone has a go,


You know this forum all too well

Sorry to hear about what hapened. These decisions are hard to make but sometimes it's for the best.

I hope Keyu makes a speedy recovery


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Sorry it hasnt worked out for you and Diesel. It does sound like the right decision though... I dont think most people have big enough houses to keep dogs safely seperated 24/7 and it does sound like he attacked to injure/kill not just for dominance/warning.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I don't think anyone will be having a go. You tried, it didn't work and now you're doing the right thing. Just hope you can find a good home for him soon, and that Keyu gets well quickly.


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## DogLove3 (Mar 1, 2012)

Sorry to hear about this 
Hope Keyu makes a quick recovery.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

What a horrible decision to have had to make. I'm so sorry it hasn't worked out. I hope your girl recovers quickly and Diesel finds a lovely new home.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

It sounds like you are making the right decision for your pre-existing dogs and for Diesel.

Wishing Keyusha a speedy recovery and Diesel a loving only-dog home where he can be happy and relaxed.


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## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

I think you are doing the right thing by keeping your dogs safe. You really have to make sure that the rescue he goes to and his new owners are fully informed of his history though. Don't hold back because you think it might reduce his chances of getting a home. His new owner needs to know how bad he can be with other dogs and tbh if he does get a home he should probably be spending the rest of his life at least muzzled, and possibly on lead, in public to protect other dogs.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

How awful, i'm really sorry to hear that  I would do exactly the same and have done though the damage was no where near like yours.

I took on a toy poodle off a lady I knew who he was too much for. I had Barney at the time and they got on so thought they'd be great company. It was fine but after a few weeks I noticed Barney kept having wounds on his face appear, I thought it was the cat so we kept the cat out when no one was home. This didn't work and went to the vets thinking maybe he was hurting himself. No one could figure out what was going on till one day right in front of me pep'e the poodle attacked Barney and was hanging off his lip, it was horrifying.

We decided the best thing was to rehome him as he was really making Barney depressed, he went off to live with a nice couple who've had poodles for years and had other poodles.


You can only do what you can, you're only human and it'd be unfair on Keyu to risk being got at again and it's unfair on diesel to live where another dog is stressing him out.

You're doing the right thing and hopefully someone will adopt him into a home where he can live happily x


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

First off I would like to say I hope your and your OH are OK, not just physically. I am aware that two dogs going at it is very disturbing mentally.

It your situation I would do the same and I know you will do the best you can for Diesel. It's a difficult decision but one which is necessary. Wish you all the best.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I hope you, your OH and Keyu are ok *hugs*

You are doing the right thing, you have put in so much work with Diesel and it wouldn't be fair on him to keep him muzzled all the time. I am sure with rescue help he will be placed in the perfect home as an only dog.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm sorry to read this and I hope Keyu is okay and makes a full recovery. 

I also think you are doing the right thing. It really is a horrible and upsetting experience seeing your dogs fight. It's not nice. 

I wish Diesel all the best in finding his new home. Try and not be too upset, I know that's easier said than done though. Remember your doing the right thing not just for the current dogs but for Diesel too.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

What a scary experience for you. I really do think you are doing the best, its better than the possible outcome if a fight occurred while you where alone. 

Best of luck.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Thankyou for your support everyone

Last night was the first night since the first week we had him that he hasnt spent curled up under the covers with me. I decided to crate him last night instead of bringing him up with us, so he could sleep comfortably with his muzzle off.

Keyu is still seeping blood a little but we are off to newmarket today to see a specialist about her eyes so im sure they will take another look at it then

Can i ask for some help? Can you link me to suitable rescues please? We dont think he is am bull x staff, more likely boxer x staff. 

I will keep him here for a while rather than put him in kennels, he's an easily stressed dog so i dont think he'd cope well in kennels, however i would rather get him out and into a foster home who can begin working with him


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Bullies in need may be able to help you.

BULLIES IN NEED - Home

email:- [email protected]

phone: -07427 194990

HTH


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

you are doing the right thing to give him another home where he is the only dog.

get well soon to your girl.


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## SiobhanG (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh that's a horrible story. Thank goodness your OH was there. I'm sorry you had to witness that. 

At least you can take comfort in the fact that you tried to give Diesel a good second chance but you have to do what's best for your other dogs and family. Good luck with the rescue centres and finding him a new home, hopefully they'll be able to spend some time rehabilitating him.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm sorry you've had to be put in this situation. I think you're making the right decision for all concerned. Out of curiosity, were the other dogs around and how did they react? Is she ok, mentally wise?

Big hugs


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## Susie61 (Apr 17, 2012)

What a terrible decision to have to make, although I would be very concerned where he is going to and is he generally safe around other dogs when out walking, although perhaps if he was to go to someone being the only dog who had land, he would not have to have contact with other dogs and would be fine.

I think my decision would have been slightly different to yours.

Hope your dog soon recovers and is not mentally effected from the attack where she does not trust other dogs and is her guard all the time.

Susie


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

If Diesel is not safe to be round other dogs, then why would you rehome him?

Unsafe is a very strong word to use. Unsure or not well socialised is one thing, but unsafe is another.

Rescue's are clogged up around the country with dogs who are rehomable. What chance does a dog who is "unsafe" around other dogs stand?

Also, as frighening as this was, the end result was only a punture wound. They can generate a lot of blood, but it wasnt as if it was a full blown attack? If a strong dog is determined to do damage then it will......

I'm not saying you should keep him or giving any advice. But he is YOUR dog and I'm not sure that I'm of the opinion that he should be passed onto rescue and left to languish in a cold kennel for months on end...

Unless of course you are planning to hold on to him in foster until he is rehomed, whereby you can be part of a responsible homing....


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## Tarnus (Apr 5, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> If Diesel is not safe to be round other dogs, then why would you rehome him?
> 
> Unsafe is a very strong word to use. Unsure or not well socialised is one thing, but unsafe is another.
> 
> ...


If you'd bothered to read Sid's reply before jumping on her back you'd see she isn't going to stick him in a kennels. She's keeping hold of him until a new home is found, or at least a foster home.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> If Diesel is not safe to be round other dogs, then why would you rehome him?
> 
> Unsafe is a very strong word to use. Unsure or not well socialised is one thing, but unsafe is another.
> 
> ...


I said in my last quote i would hold him until a foster home came up. Please read my pists before jumping on your soapbox. This is not a decision i want to make, and not i wouldnt call it unsure, undersocialised yes but also unsafe. He has hurt another dog, and it could have been a lot worse had my OH not grabbed his head and stopped him from shaking her. Would you call that a safe dog?!

Yes he is my dog but im making this decision for all of us, he is clearly unhappy being in a pack too


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

peanut651 said:


> You know this forum all too well
> 
> Sorry to hear about what hapened. These decisions are hard to make but sometimes it's for the best.
> 
> I hope Keyu makes a speedy recovery


i dont think many will give much grief to the op, this is a serious and genuine reason for a rehome!


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

So sorry to hear about this! Just seen the photo of her neck on Facebook, hope she makes a speedy recovery. Sounds like you're making the right decision, as hard as it must be.


sid&kira said:


> Can i ask for some help? Can you link me to suitable rescues please? We dont think he is am bull x staff, more likely boxer x staff.
> I will keep him here for a while rather than put him in kennels, he's an easily stressed dog so i dont think he'd cope well in kennels, however i would rather get him out and into a foster home who can begin working with him


The Blue Cross run a scheme called Home Direct where they will assess the dog, create a profile to put on their website and at the centre but the dog stays with the owner until a home is found. Their Suffolk branch is in Felixstowe and of course they have kennels and foster homes as well. They have a behaviourist at each branch so would probably be worth contacting them.
Blue Cross - About Home Direct

The only other rescue I can think of in the area is Suffolk Animal Rescue; I work at a boarding kennel that keeps a few rescue dogs for SAR while they wait for fosterers (they normally have several). Probably not an ideal situation but might be worth phoning Jane to see if they can help you out. The kennels do have a very good reputation but is more of a halfway house in terms of rescues, SAR do help with behaviour problems but more so when in foster homes/new homes.
Contact us


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

WarDoll said:


> I'm sorry you've had to be put in this situation. I think you're making the right decision for all concerned. Out of curiosity, were the other dogs around and how did they react? Is she ok, mentally wise?
> 
> Big hugs


They were, but i cant remember their reactions, i was more concentrating on getting him off her

She seems fine, a little growly at them all but thats understandable when they're trying to sniff her wounds!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> i dont know what you would call a full blown attack then.
> 
> also the dog is not a doctor and doesnt know where major arteries are and was only luck he didnt get hold of it! he did damage and it could have been much worse, not because he didnt have intent but because the op and hubby were there and he didnt get the chance!


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

sid&kira said:


> I said in my last quote i would hold him until a foster home came up. Please read my pists before jumping on your soapbox. This is not a decision i want to make, and not i wouldnt call it unsure, undersocialised yes but also unsafe. He has hurt another dog, and it could have been a lot worse had my OH not grabbed his head and stopped him from shaking her. Would you call that a safe dog?!
> 
> Yes he is my dog but im making this decision for all of us, he is clearly unhappy being in a pack too


I apologise in that I didn't see your reply. 

Just because I'm not fawning all over you, it doesn't mean that I'm on my soap box. I'm just looking at it from a different angle.

You can;t call a dog "unsafe" because he has bitten another dog. I don't think you should put that type of label on him.

Credit to you for hanging on to him until his forever home is found.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> I apologise in that I didn't see your reply.
> 
> Just because I'm not fawning all over you, it doesn't mean that I'm on my soap box. I'm just looking at it from a different angle.
> 
> ...


He's either safe or unsafe. I'd rather his lable was the truth rather than playing it down in the hope he'll get a home, thats dishonest and potentially dangerous


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Wow, I'm really sorry to hear about this Sid 

I've no doubt you'll do everything you can to do right by them all, must be very difficult in your house right now.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

I am really sad to hear about this - I hope Keyu is ok today.

It sound slike you are doing what is best for both parties.

Best of luck x x


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## DaisyMay7 (Apr 18, 2012)

HI,
VERY SORRY IT'S NOT WORKED OUT, I too think rehoming the best outcome as a risk to your other dogs. It was so kind of yourself to try and help Diesal, please don't feel guilty. You tried your best, and not your fault in anyway.
I hope he finds a good home very soon, where the only dog.
I hope she recovers really quickly from her wounds, terrible When they fight.
Take care
Kate


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Sorry to hear this you did your best with him , I think your doing best thing not only for your other dogs but for him too best of luck


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

sid&kira said:


> He's either safe or unsafe. I'd rather his lable was the truth rather than playing it down in the hope he'll get a home, thats dishonest and potentially dangerous


I can understand why you feel the need for him to not be a part of your pack. But the fact remains, why would you pass the problem on?

It is so rare for homes to come up for dogs like this that you are likely to either have to foster him for months or he will be kennelled for months.

If he is deemed as unsafe then I really feel you should address the problem rather than pass it on.

You may not like what I'm saying and I'm not suggesting you should keep him in your pack but you are his owner.

I'm sorry but I get sick of seeing problem dogs being made worse because owners will not deal with it.

If this was my dog he would be PTS knowing love and happiness. Because my dogs = my problem


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Sorry to hear this, Sid; hope that you can sort things for the best soon x.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

OP - you also need to be mindful, that if he is rehomed via rescue and that homing fails, then the owner may not want to lose face and go back to the rescue.

They may then rehome privately, and now you have an "unsafe" dog back on the streets.

I'm really not trying to make you feel bad. But unsafe dogs should NOT be rehomed


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> I can understand why you feel the need for him to not be a part of your pack. But the fact remains, why would you pass the problem on?
> 
> It is so rare for homes to come up for dogs like this that you are likely to either have to foster him for months or he will be kennelled for months.
> 
> ...


Pts when he would make someone a perfect pet as an only dog? Yes he's a dick witg dogs but he is great with people, i'd rather give him at least a chance of a happy life in the right home


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I clicked on like for goodvic's post not because I think you are doing anything wrong - I think you cannot carry on for all of your sakes as is, and I know you won't have thought about this lightly and want to do your best for your current gang and him too; but more because there are some important thoughts - when people say about giving the dog to rescue have they ever tried to get a rescue place for a staffie - we have had dog aggressive staffies with us for 6-8 months before finally finding them a private rehome - many rescues may take the workable ones but you may struggle. There are some big rescues who may take dogs in and then if they fail assessment on aggression issues and they are deemed not suitable for a responsible rehome will put the them to sleep.

Thats not to be defeatist and you fully have my sympathy for this difficult and horrible situation but I think you need to be prepared about how hard it is out there for staffies at the minute and contact as many good reputable rescues as you can even out of area - its worth it if he can get a space - but he could be there for a long time... more and more rescues are starting not to take bull breeds, the staffie rescues are innundated with 'pure' breed staffies needing homes let alone crosses, (one i spoke to gets 20-30 calls a day of people looking for spaces - when you have 6-7 kennels it's impossible!)

I don't know what the answer is..... Dog Rescue Pages - UK dog rescue homes, centres and shelters guide has a list of good and reputable rescues so its worth ringing as many as you can and has lots of rescue minded people who may also have other suggestions for you.

If you are prepared to hang on to him and also try the private rehome route are there any family members who are dogless where he can camp out for a bit whilst you get your head together and work on a plan ? THey might not want a full time dog but might be happy knowing its not forever?

I don't think anyone is saying its right that PTS should be an option; just sadly its the fate of so many staffies around the UK when spaces and homes are so hard to find - no one thinks its acceptable or right... when we have biters in will get so many people saying this should be done or that done but sadly none of them are able to actually take the dog in themselves sometimes the mythical home can be hard to find.......


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm really sorry this has happened and I hope Keyu recovers quickly
I wonder what his chances are of someone wanting to take him on? If things are that bad I wouldn't be rehoming, but thats me, and wish you luck with him


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

THere are people out there who are happy to have da staffies and don't mind they live somewhere remote and it doesn't really matter to them; but you have to be so careful they know the precautions to take and are good responsible people.


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

People do re-home dodgy dogs. I've got Rex and my home seems to suit him well.

Rex was a shocker as a rural dog but quite OK with us in the 'burbs. He's adapted to suburban life and dog obedience after freedom and sheep killing. I've adapted to the fact that he'll NEVER compete due to a certain inclination on Rex's part towards murdering other dogs. We're FINE and very happy.

If Rex had stayed with his previous owner (who loved him very much) I think Rex's life would have been shortened by an aggrieved farmer with a shottie. To be completely honest I think previous owner would have been selfish to keep him. Rex is better with us. No sheep in the suburbs.

May Diesel meet some nice, dog-knowledgeable family where he can be an only dog.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

sid&kira said:


> Pts when he would make someone a perfect pet as an only dog? Yes he's a dick witg dogs but he is great with people, i'd rather give him at least a chance of a happy life in the right home


And if he attacks or kills another dog?

I'd like to see all dogs in happy, responsible homes. The trouble is you run the risk of that not happening and an "unsafe" dog being out on the streets.

We hear of so many dog attacks. One member whose dog was KILLED by an aggreessive dog. And yet you want to rehome one like this


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I am wondering if his strongest chance is with someone who knows you or has met you - sometimes a dog looks 'bad' on paper; but if people can or have meet them and see beyond that they may be prepared to offer a home?

For example having had a DA dog in the past (lab x, who was attacked herself and she attacked and drew blood on a couple of dogs despite mums best care, didn't really know about behaviourists etc back then). mum never wanted another one. After years of muzzles, being careful, panicing every time someone let their dog run over mum never wanted another DA dog and wanted her next dog to be an easy one. She would never knowingly get another DA dog; but on the other hand she would have my DA staffie like a shot; because she already knows and worships him and would overlook the DA issue because she knows what a lovely dog he is in general and knows its because he is nervous of other dogs and his limitations. If he was a 'strange' dog in a rescue she wouldn't have wanted to take on his DA issues. Does that make sense?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

ozrex said:


> People do re-home dodgy dogs. I've got Rex and my home seems to suit him well.
> 
> Rex was a shocker as a rural dog but quite OK with us in the 'burbs. He's adapted to suburban life and dog obedience after freedom and sheep killing. I've adapted to the fact that he'll NEVER compete due to a certain inclination on Rex's part towards murdering other dogs. We're FINE and very happy.
> 
> ...


One of my dogs is also "dodgy". And if the time ever came then I would do the responsible thing and have him PTS. I cannot run the risk that my dog would end up in the wrong hands.

To me it's comes under "personal responsibility" not "pass it on for someone else to deal with"


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## Beverage (Mar 22, 2012)

goodvic2 said:


> And if he attacks or kills another dog?
> 
> I'd like to see all dogs in happy, responsible homes. The trouble is you run the risk of that not happening and an "unsafe" dog being out on the streets.
> 
> We hear of so many dog attacks. One member whose dog was KILLED by an aggreessive dog. And yet you want to rehome one like this


I'm sorry but can I just point out that ANY dog has the potential to kill another dog. With the right owner this dog will be fine. Surely going on your logic we should put down all potentially dangerous dogs 'in case they end up in the wrong hands'.

This owner is doing the right thing and being realistic about the situation. They haven't thrown him out on the street or PTS. They have simply made a decision that the dog would be better off in another home without other dogs.

Good luck in your search for his forever home. I'm sure you'll take all the time necessary and do the right thing by the dog.


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

So sorry to read this
I am glad Keyu is not too badly hurt!

It sounds like a very difficult situation, and i fully understand your decision, I would do the same in your shoes.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2012)

Beverage said:


> I'm sorry but can I just point out that ANY dog has the potential to kill another dog. With the right owner this dog will be fine. Surely going on your logic we should put down all potentially dangerous dogs 'in case they end up in the wrong hands'.
> 
> This owner is doing the right thing and being realistic about the situation. They haven't thrown him out on the street or PTS. They have simply made a decision that the dog would be better off in another home without other dogs.
> 
> Good luck in your search for his forever home. I'm sure you'll take all the time necessary and do the right thing by the dog.


of course your right , any dog has the potential to kill another dog i don`t think goodvic is saying diesel is dangerous at all , just pointing out it isn`t fair to have a dog bounced around homes as not ALL people are honest.


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

Such a hard decision. The problem is a new owner can be told what has happened in detail but I don't think it's the same as seeing it happen. 
Adopters might make excuses, convincing themselves it is all ok, it's a one off or was provoked, or something scared him as he builds up trust what if they decide he is ok to go out without a muzzle or is ok with their friends dog. If the same thing happened it could easily end in death for another dog. 
We had a rescue spaniel in the family who didn't give any warning. She had to be PTS she started going for people it got progressively worse. I believe sometimes behaviour is genetic and not something that can be fixed. Not always. 
I hope you find a way through this, it must be so difficult for you and your family. Take care of yourself and keep talking about it. x


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## Ameliarate (May 9, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I can understand why you feel the need for him to not be a part of your pack. But the fact remains, why would you pass the problem on?
> 
> It is so rare for homes to come up for dogs like this that you are likely to either have to foster him for months or he will be kennelled for months.
> 
> ...


I had the same problem with my two dogs. My older dog attacked my younger dog, yet she was absolutely great will ALL other dogs. She went to live with my MIL and is as happy as larry.

It is far to easy to have a dog PTS when it may not be necessary.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Ameliarate said:


> I had the same problem with my two dogs. My older dog attacked my younger dog, yet she was absolutely great will ALL other dogs. She went to live with my MIL and is as happy as larry.
> 
> It is far to easy to have a dog PTS when it may not be necessary.


Actually I think it's easier to give them to rescue than to make that decision. However that is a different topic..


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Beverage said:


> I'm sorry but can I just point out that ANY dog has the potential to kill another dog. With the right owner this dog will be fine. Surely going on your logic we should put down all potentially dangerous dogs 'in case they end up in the wrong hands'.
> 
> This owner is doing the right thing and being realistic about the situation. They haven't thrown him out on the street or PTS. They have simply made a decision that the dog would be better off in another home without other dogs.
> 
> Good luck in your search for his forever home. I'm sure you'll take all the time necessary and do the right thing by the dog.


 Of course any dog can kill or bite. But most don't.

I'm not saying that all dogs who have a bite history should be PTS. But we are talking about a dog who is described as unsafe.

Battersea won't rehome a DA dog.

I think there is logic in that ..


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> One of my dogs is also "dodgy". And if the time ever came then I would do the responsible thing and have him PTS. I cannot run the risk that my dog would end up in the wrong hands.


I would have done the same with Rupert. He was a bit beyond "dodgy" though, he was downright dangerous when it came to other dogs. Plus he had other serious problems.

But then I know there are dogs who are unsafe in one home but fine in another. I'm not sure on Diesels history, whether he's aggressive to strange dogs, apt to go running off to other dogs to attack them or what. The fact it only seems to be the one dog in the house he's attacked and the fact that that dogs eyes keep going funny makes me wonder whether he's picking up on something about her. Not blaming Keyusha btw, just wouldn't be the first time I've heard of something like that happening.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Sarah1983 said:


> I would have done the same with Rupert. He was a bit beyond "dodgy" though, he was downright dangerous when it came to other dogs. Plus he had other serious problems.
> 
> But then I know there are dogs who are unsafe in one home but fine in another. I'm not sure on Diesels history, whether he's aggressive to strange dogs, apt to go running off to other dogs to attack them or what. The fact it only seems to be the one dog in the house he's attacked and the fact that that dogs eyes keep going funny makes me wonder whether he's picking up on something about her. Not blaming Keyusha btw, just wouldn't be the first time I've heard of something like that happening.


I agree with you about dogs behaving differently. We have lots of dogs returned because they have bitten. They are not DA but reacted to a situation.

But the fact he's already had at least 2 homes, his current owner describing him as unsafe indicates a wider problem ..


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## Beverage (Mar 22, 2012)

goodvic2 said:


> Of course any dog can kill or bite. But most don't.
> 
> I'm not saying that all dogs who have a bite history should be PTS. But we are talking about a dog who is described as unsafe.
> 
> ...


I think that the owner is planning on doing what is best for the dog. They seem very keen...


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## harrys_mum (Aug 18, 2010)

so sorry to hear this sad story, but you are making the right decision for your family. hope it goes well rehoming,
michelle x


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2012)

I respect a responsible owner's right to make an INFORMED decision.

I don't know what things are like there, but no way would I do a rehome without the help and support of a well-respected rescue organization. Especially not a bully breed. I would be too worried the dog would end up in the wrong hands and I would be left with no recourse.
Rescue organizations can do home checks and follow up on the dog and have the legalities figured out for how to take the dog back if needed. I don't have those resources as an individual.

I also know that humane euthanasia is not the worst thing that can happen to a dog.

IMO anyone who owns a bully breed or any other breed prone to DA should be prepared for this sort of scenario. Plenty of owners live a life of crate and rotate - and make it work well for all involved with minimal stress. They are also prepared for how to break up a fight should one happen. Yes, even if you're home alone. Its the realities of owning a powerful breed prone to DA.

Personally I could not do crate and rotate - or more accurately, I would not WANT to do crate and rotate. But I know it can be done successfully.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Sorry to hear this hun. If put in the same position I would do the same. 

Hopefully he'll land on his feet, with people who want an only dog and know how to handle him around other dogs. All the best to your search and of course to your girl (didn't want to attempt her name in case I got it wrong  ) wishing her a speedy recovery. 

If you ever need to talk - PM me, I'll listen.


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## TabithaJ (Apr 18, 2010)

Ghastly experience for you all, you must be feeling very shaken.

I really wish you all the best and hope your girl makes a good and speedy recovery.

All best wishes.


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## TabithaJ (Apr 18, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> I can understand why you feel the need for him to not be a part of your pack. But the fact remains, why would you pass the problem on?
> 
> It is so rare for homes to come up for dogs like this that you are likely to either have to foster him for months or he will be kennelled for months.
> 
> ...


So on the one hand you're saying it was 'just' a puncture wound - now you're saying you'd have the dog PTS.

Which is it?


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## karen09 (Mar 30, 2009)

so sorry to hear of your sad news.

you have to do whats best for your dogs and you

good luck for the future

karen holmes


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

I fully support your decision to rehome Diesel. You have tried very hard with him but you must respect your other dogs needs and your needs as well.

As you are in Suffolk have you thought of Hillside Animal Sanctuary? They have a dog rescue section that is rehoming dogs that are not suitable to be rehomed with other dogs . There is also a section on their website about why we should give staffies a chance. Hillside animal sanctuary

I wish you all well and hope it works out well for Diesel.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

You are definitely making the right decision in not keeping Diesel but I would go with goodvic and not pass on to another home. I would maybe make some enquiries and see what the options are but I have a feeling I would end up with the pts option for the dog's sake.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I tend to agree with the above although I can see how hard that would be for you.  He doesn't seem like he will be rehabilitated and at least that way you would know he isn't being pushed from pillar to post and perhaps eventually ending up in the wrong hands. I think that would be my decision.


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## DogLove3 (Mar 1, 2012)

I feel this dog deserves another chance to be rehomed, you could recommend to the dog rescue centres that he should live in an household with someone, where he is the only dog there.
Good luck with the rehoming.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

Just wanted to say I wish you all the best for this awful situation. I hope you find a lovely suitable home for this dog, and I hope Keya makes a full and speedy recovery. Most of all, I believe you are doing the right thing - for everyone. He's getting another chance, not all dogs are given that. 

Life stinks sometimes dunnit.


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

I think you are doing absulutly the right thing, some dogs just don't do well in a multi dog home. 

I havent read all the replies so this may have allready been suggested, but Bullies in Need would be a good rescue to approach, they rescue mainly Bull terriers but also help with other bullie breeds. they usually do an assesment of a dog before homing it, and try to make sure that the right dogs go tothe right people. they also have lots of people who foster dogs while they are finding forever homes.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

I am so, so sorry this has happened and that Keyu recovers quickly. It must have been horrible for you and your OH to witness and deal with the situation.

I really hope that it turns out ok for Diesel too.

I do see where some people are coming from when they say that they would euthanise a dog that has done this, there are always going to be different opinions on this subject but I also think that each situation/dog is different and we all try to do the best for our own dogs.

Many years ago we had a gordon setter that was asleep one moment and the next had her jaws clamped around an 8 month child who was acoss the room and sitting next to his dad. Very scary. The dog was rehomed with the new owner (a lady with no kids) fully aware of what happened. It all turned out well in the end and the dog lived many years in a good home.

Good luck, fingers crossed, and please don't feel guilty.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Bullies in need sounds good and they'll realistically know your chances of re homing Diesel. Trouble is with many bull breeds that have perfect temperaments being pts every day, what are the chances for this boy with quite serious issues going to be? I think you're best asking the experts that one tbh as they will know the best course of action to take. A private re home is not a good idea as you can never be sure of the outcome no natter how genuine they seem.


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

Another option would be Bullies SOS. Both Bullies SOS and Bullies in Need are very good rescues.


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

Would it not be possible to rehome the dog that was injured? If it has a good temperament and is not aggressive a good home would probably be more forthcoming. A DA dog will have problems getting rehomed, and as he has had a few homes already most owners would think even ore about taking him on.

Get professional help from a behaviourist and don't automatically think about rehoming the aggressor. He is your dog and your responsibility - and do not decide to rehome or PTS without thinking about all of your options.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I know of an unpredictable DA staffy who was placed in rescue with behaviourist backup and was rehomed very quickly (compared to other staffs in there) to be an only dog and has, as far as I am aware, been happily living with said person for several months now. I am also aware that the behaviourist and kennel manager decided it would be best for her to be muzzled at all times in public- she can still enjoy her walks without putting other dogs at danger.

He may not be re-habilitated, but as an only dog he can be kept away from other dogs and still enjoy a life with someone.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

There are a lot of DA dogs out there who live perfectly happy, safe, stress free lives without other dog family members. I owned a DA dog for 16 years, he couldnt have lived with another dog but he didnt need to be PTS either. So sorry youve had to come to this decision hun but for what its worth I think its the right one to make for all concerned xx


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I lived with a DA dog for 17 years. I would never have considered passing on the problem to someone else because he could have been a killer in the wrong hands.

I did crate and rotate with him for 6 years because my then BF had a dog and they just didn't get on. It was hard for the first few weeks but then it just became our lives.

I agree with goodvik and others who have said that having him euthanised is the safer option. What if he goes on to kill a dog in a full blown attack or gets into the wrong hands? It just doesn't bear thinking about 

Shame on Diesel's previous owner who passed the problem onto you Sid  It was a rotten thing that they did knowing you already have dogs and putting them in danger  Please don't repeat their mistake.


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

metaldog said:


> What if he goes on to kill a dog in a full blown attack or gets into the wrong hands? It just doesn't bear thinking about


ther is no reason why a DA dog can't live a long and happy life in a single dog house hold. If it is rehomed through a good breed rescue who understand bullie breeds there is a good chance that they will be able to find it a suitable home.

=


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

thankyou for your replies everyone, i've just had a quick read through the whole thing, i will have a think about everything that's been said tomorrow, for now, its been a long day (but thats another thread!) and i still have work to do!



goodvic2 said:


> I agree with you about dogs behaving differently. We have lots of dogs returned because they have bitten. They are not DA but reacted to a situation.
> 
> But the fact he's already had at least 2 homes, his current owner describing him as unsafe indicates a wider problem ..


What exactly are you getting at? that there's more to it? I can assure you there isnt, he is great in all other ways, he sleeps under the covers with me (or did), he's great fun to train (i've been teaching him tricks by clicker training), he's currently asleep on my OH's lap. He's never shown agression to a human at all, though is a little vocal at 1st when someone visits.

We're not rehoming him because of any other reason except his dog agression.



Honey Bee said:


> I fully support your decision to rehome Diesel. You have tried very hard with him but you must respect your other dogs needs and your needs as well.
> 
> As you are in Suffolk have you thought of Hillside Animal Sanctuary? They have a dog rescue section that is rehoming dogs that are not suitable to be rehomed with other dogs . There is also a section on their website about why we should give staffies a chance. Hillside animal sanctuary
> 
> I wish you all well and hope it works out well for Diesel.


Thankyou i'll contact them 



Spud the Bull Terrier said:


> Another option would be Bullies SOS. Both Bullies SOS and Bullies in Need are very good rescues.


Thanks 



kirksandallchins said:


> Would it not be possible to rehome the dog that was injured? If it has a good temperament and is not aggressive a good home would probably be more forthcoming. A DA dog will have problems getting rehomed, and as he has had a few homes already most owners would think even ore about taking him on.
> 
> Get professional help from a behaviourist and don't automatically think about rehoming the aggressor. He is your dog and your responsibility - and do not decide to rehome or PTS without thinking about all of your options.


Rehome the dog who was here 1st? How is that in any way fair? and whats to say he wont turn around and attack one of my other 2?


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## sazzle (Sep 10, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear about this. What a terrible situation for you to have to deal with. 

I do hope all goes well with whatever you decide to do and that your injured dog makes a full recovery.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

The issue For me is not that he deserves a new home but it's alot harder in reality to find that home or rescue space in reality. Most of our da staffies have gone onto find good homes but it's taken months and we have to be sure of the home.. And we are cut out to safely offer a lifetime support if they need to come back.

It's a horrible situation all round to which there is no def answer unless the dog is that dangerous he will potentially kill another dog.. But there are responsible ways forward. 

I do think the people who say rescue ought to try finding a rescue place at a repuabable rescue Just like that when the dog has no issue. And is due to be pts.. But you don't know until you try ? I know you will be responsible and try whatever you can. 

I guess having time will help to investigate options .. Must be a horrible situation I can't imagine.


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## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

I can understand points from almost everyone on this thread re rehome vs pts. I honestly don't know what I would do in your situation or what is "right". It is a very hard decision either way  I agree he is not safe in your pack though and the right thing to do is remove him.

I don't agree with this though:



kirksandallchins said:


> Would it not be possible to rehome the dog that was injured? If it has a good temperament and is not aggressive a good home would probably be more forthcoming. A DA dog will have problems getting rehomed, and as he has had a few homes already most owners would think even ore about taking him on.
> 
> Get professional help from a behaviourist and don't automatically think about rehoming the aggressor. He is your dog and your responsibility - and do not decide to rehome or PTS without thinking about all of your options.


For the very reason you say:



sid&kira said:


> whats to say he wont turn around and attack one of my other 2?


He may just be picking out Keyusha because he sees her as the weakest in the pack. If she was removed he might just move onto the next dog. It is an interesting coincidence that she is the one that has been having problems though, as another poster mentioned. Maybe he can sense something about her?

One thing I don't think anybody else has mentioned is have you had Diesel tested for any health problems that could have caused this? Maybe he is in pain and lashed out from that or maybe he is unbalanced because of something going on internally. Might be worth looking into before deciding how you want to proceed.

Good luck whatever you do though and I hope Keyusha recovers quickly .


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

we wont be privately rehoming, we will be going through a rescue, it's not something I want to do on my own


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2012)

> kirksandallchins said:
> 
> 
> > Would it not be possible to rehome the dog that was injured? If it has a good temperament and is not aggressive a good home would probably be more forthcoming. A DA dog will have problems getting rehomed, and as he has had a few homes already most owners would think even ore about taking him on.
> ...


Its actually a very reasonable option if you think about it logically and not emotionally. Emotionally, yes, hard as can be. But logically it does make a lot of sense.

A friend of mine had 3 dogs, two of whom decided they hated each other. She ended up rehoming the less problematic one of the two. It killed her, but it was FAR easier to find a home for the one who was simply defending himself than for the primary aggressor. He is now in a great home and my friend does get to keep up with him. The dog who was the aggressor has been absolutely fine with her other dog.

The reality is, homes are hard enough to find. Make that a dog savvy home that is dog-less and you're looking at ridiculous odds.

Not trying to tell you what to do, just clarifying the thought above and throwing ideas out there.

No matter what you end up doing its going to be a heartwrenching decision.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Set_Nights said:


> One thing I don't think anybody else has mentioned is have you had Diesel tested for any health problems that could have caused this? Maybe he is in pain and lashed out from that or maybe he is unbalanced because of something going on internally. Might be worth looking into before deciding how you want to proceed.
> 
> Good luck whatever you do though and I hope Keyusha recovers quickly .


no i havent, he was last there about a month or 2 ago, i will get him booked in for a check up, hopefully they can see us at the end of the day


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Its actually a very reasonable option if you think about it logically and not emotionally. Emotionally, yes, hard as can be. But logically it does make a lot of sense.
> 
> A friend of mine had 3 dogs, two of whom decided they hated each other. She ended up rehoming the less problematic one of the two. It killed her, but it was FAR easier to find a home for the one who was simply defending himself than for the primary aggressor. He is now in a great home and my friend does get to keep up with him. The dog who was the aggressor has been absolutely fine with her other dog.
> 
> ...


i can see the logic, but no way will it be happening, Keyu's been here much longer than diesel, gets on better in a pack & is more my OH's dog than mine, he dotes on her, he wouldnt let it happen even if i did want to


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## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Its actually a very reasonable option if you think about it logically and not emotionally. Emotionally, yes, hard as can be. But logically it does make a lot of sense.
> 
> A friend of mine had 3 dogs, two of whom decided they hated each other. She ended up rehoming the less problematic one of the two. It killed her, but it was FAR easier to find a home for the one who was simply defending himself than for the primary aggressor. He is now in a great home and my friend does get to keep up with him. The dog who was the aggressor has been absolutely fine with her other dog.
> 
> ...


I agree. Sometimes we have to be utilitarian and what is right is not always "fair". I just don't think it would necessary in this case as it doesn't sound like Keyusha has any problem with Diesel or has made any efforts to relatiate or given him a reason to attack, certainly not to the extent that he did. He may just be going for the weakest pack member and may move onto another pack member once she he gone. Then Sid would be minus a dog she loves and back in exactly the same situation.


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## Hertsgirl (Nov 17, 2011)

Oh I am sorry to hear that, I don't blame you one bit, i'd do the same in your shoes. Hope he finds a good home x


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Diesel is DA to other dogs too isn't he as ive been looking through your threads. No way would I re home your girl either - how awful when she has donenothing wrong and Diesel may easily go after one of the others next time. 

Good luck, hope it all works out for you and well done for being level headed, afraid if it were me he would most likely not even be in my house tonight as this lot mean far too much to risk injury to any of them. Thank Heaven for baby gates eh?


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Malmum said:


> Diesel is DA to other dogs too isn't he as ive been looking through your threads. No way would I re home your girl either - how awful when she has donenothing wrong and Diesel may easily go after one of the others next time.
> 
> Good luck, hope it all works out for you and well done for being level headed, afraid if it were me he would most likely not even be in my house tonight as this lot mean far too much to risk injury to any of them. Thank Heaven for baby gates eh?


if he had anywhere else to go he probably wouldnt be


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

In all honesty Sid when he first arrived and went for all three dogs straight off
and all out for the girls too and it seemed to be snarling and straining to even get to them, as you may remember it did worry me at the time. I could have understood more if he had a go at grey or it was him and grey being another male brought in, but a male having a go a females in the main really isnt the normal, as I said at the time its usually either a really dog agressive dog or one thats unbalanced that will go for a bitch with intent and straight away without any real provacation. As you have said he is fabulous with people and at his training, it sounds like its a matter of finding him a sensible dog savvy owner, and in a one dog household he would be fine. As long as they know he is dog agressive and have enough experience to handle him when outside on walks, then it shouldnt really be a problem. Having said this it really either needs a good rescues backing or, someone that you know and trust to come forward.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> In all honesty Sid when he first arrived and went for all three dogs straight off
> and all out for the girls too and it seemed to be snarling and straining to even get to them, as you may remember it did worry me at the time. I could have understood more if he had a go at grey or it was him and grey being another male brought in, but a male having a go a females in the main really isnt the normal, as I said at the time its usually either a really dog agressive dog or one thats unbalanced that will go for a bitch with intent and straight away without any real provacation. As you have said he is fabulous with people and at his training, it sounds like its a matter of finding him a sensible dog savvy owner, and in a one dog household he would be fine. As long as they know he is dog agressive and have enough experience to handle him when outside on walks, then it shouldnt really be a problem. Having said this it really either needs a good rescues backing or, someone that you know and trust to come forward.


I do, and now im wishing we had sent him back and not got emotionally involved

I just dont get why he has been ok for the last 5-6 months and now turning again, could it be his age? he's about 14 months now I think...


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2012)

sid&kira said:


> I just dont get why he has been ok for the last 5-6 months and now turning again, could it be his age? he's about 14 months now I think...


yes it more than likely is , am bulls going through maturity can be challenging at the best of times.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

sid&kira said:


> I do, and now im wishing we had sent him back and not got emotionally involved
> 
> I just dont get why he has been ok for the last 5-6 months and now turning again, could it be his age? he's about 14 months now I think...


Possibly he might be filling his boots and trying it on, but again I could understand more if it happened between him and Grey, two males especially as grey has got uppitty in the past I think you have said, and with bitches there too, especially if you have had any seasons while you have had him I could fully see why.

Again if she had taken liberties like took something off him say a chew, like bitches will have the cheek to try and do sometimes, or even if a bit of food was dropped and they both went for it at the same time, if there was a glaring reason that had sparked him then at least you can see why. If you are sure though that there was nothing like that and he just launched at her and I think you said its not the first time? even if not to this degree, then I cant see it getting any better. Daisy and Nanuq if somethings laying about ie a chew and they both go for it, they can have a right ding dong, but thats the only time, so thats easy chews only supervised, and up and gone when they loose interest, or someone leaves the room, that is only one thing though that causes a problem so very easily managed. If its just out the blue
attacks with seemingly no reason and can be anytime, then thats a whole different story and a whole difference ball game to manage. Whats harder too, is an unpredictable dog, get a pushy or lairy one thats constantly like it I guess what some people would refer to as dominant you know exactly what they are like and exactly what they are going to do. Get one who can be as gold as good and then just switch and start out the blue for next to nothing or seemingly next to nothing really hard to manage. If its one or two things easy management in place and you avoidd the triggers if they are happy and live content together the rest of the time like Daisy and Nan, but if you are never knowing how or when can be a nightmare.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Possibly he might be filling his boots and trying it on, but again I could understand more if it happened between him and Grey, two males especially as grey has got uppitty in the past I think you have said, and with bitches there too, especially if you have had any seasons while you have had him I could fully see why.
> 
> Again if she had taken liberties like took something off him say a chew, like bitches will have the cheek to try and do sometimes, or even if a bit of food was dropped and they both went for it at the same time, if there was a glaring reason that had sparked him then at least you can see why. If you are sure though that there was nothing like that and he just launched at her and I think you said its not the first time? even if not to this degree, then I cant see it getting any better. Daisy and Nanuq if somethings laying about ie a chew and they both go for it, they can have a right ding dong, but thats the only time, so thats easy chews only supervised, and up and gone when they loose interest, or someone leaves the room, that is only one thing though that causes a problem so very easily managed. If its just out the blue
> attacks with seemingly no reason and can be anytime, then thats a whole different story and a whole difference ball game to manage. Whats harder too, is an unpredictable dog, get a pushy or lairy one thats constantly like it I guess what some people would refer to as dominant you know exactly what they are like and exactly what they are going to do. Get one who can be as gold as good and then just switch and start out the blue for next to nothing or seemingly next to nothing really hard to manage. If its one or two things easy management in place and you avoidd the triggers if they are happy and live content together the rest of the time like Daisy and Nan, but if you are never knowing how or when can be a nightmare.


nope, no chews, keyu always goes in her crate with a chew anyway, wasnt dinner time, no one was eating/drinking, and toys were all in the toybox on the other side of the room

him & grey do the whole 'im bigger than you' rough housing, but they've only had a couple of fights, and not like the way he's been going for keyu


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Only other thought Ive just had why her, is that its for some reason re-directed aggression, not specifically her but when something winds him up or stresses him out he re-directs and takes it out on her. If she is the meekest softest one of the lot maybe thats why. Dont know of course just guessing and something that came to me. Thats not good though if it is a its not fair too her.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm probably way off here..... but say Diesel sensed something was ''wrong'' with Keyu (re: her eye problem) could that cause him to be directing aggression towards her? I know they say dogs pick up on things like that, just a thought.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I wish you had somewhere for him to go until you find a home for him too Sid but as long as you make sure there is no way he can get to any of your dogs, no matter how friendly he seems then you should be fine. I agree with sled dog a male dog that goes for females has real aggression problems and such a shame you found out this way. 

I am currently reading a book by Jean Donaldson called FIGHT! in it she says there are levels in dog aggression. There are 'handbags at dawn' where there's all noise and just slobber - what Flynn and Marty did. This is just a scrap, minor disagreement. The one that leaves a small injury, probably caused by a tooth accidentally catching the other dog - bit like Kali. Then there's the dog who inflicts serious injury very quickly with just one bite, injury with intent. This type of aggression, she says, is truly a dangerous dog and one that must be seen by a behaviourist and never allowed loose around other dogs unless muzzled while being rehabilitated. This type of aggression has the potential to kill, particularly a smaller dog and your girl (in fact any of your dogs) would be no contest if you couldn't part them.

I see many re homes on here and I always think i'm being selfish in that when they get in their new homes and they have issues with existing dogs I always think I would take them straight back but I just wouldn't, couldn't take the risk. It may be because I had a dog killed by another that i'm extra cautious but I wouldn't risk it again.

I really feel for you Sid and in trying to help Diesel your girl is now injured, just have to be thankful that you were there and able to stop it when you did. Hopefully a rescue will take him for you and you can relax again as it must be very hard for you at present.
Take care.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

Oh, what a horrible thing to happen  I would make that decision too...

RE. Which dog to rehome, I am not a believer in the innocent dog or original dog being rehomed... I know it can sometimes be easier, but I just don't think it is fair. 

RE. Rehoming v PTS... I think it is a very difficult one. I don't like to see a dog being PTS, but he will be a hard dog to rehome... He needs a home where he will be an only dog and with owners that are responsible and experienced in dealing with DA... and then there is his breed as well which will make things harder. There are so many dogs without issues that are waiting for forever homes, which makes it all the more harder for a lot of the ones with issues... It isn't a nice situation to be in... I honestly have no clue what I would do, if I were in your position... it is easy to sit and say what we would do, but unless we are or have been in that position, then it doesn't really mean a great deal IMO.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2012)

Malmum said:


> I agree with sled dog a male dog that goes for females has real aggression problems and such a shame you found out this way.


it would not be unusual for him not to get along with dogs of the opposite sex taking into consideration his cross.



> American bulldogs as they mature (1-2 yrs) often become aggressive with each other and fight. Intact males rarely get along with other males. Sometimes females will fight with other females and *sometimes males and females will fight*


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I agree with that as Mals can have same sex aggression but it doesn't mean they won't fight with the opposite sex - Kali for instance has no probs with Marty but she doesn't do it to dogs outside the home. Marty however does not usually retaliate but turns away by which time Kali has put herself on the floor! Blinking Mals, just don't understand them, lo.! 

However even Mals don't put up such a fight but as you say it's probably to do with the breed.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> The fact it only seems to be the one dog in the house he's attacked and the fact that that dogs eyes keep going funny makes me wonder whether he's picking up on something about her. Not blaming Keyusha btw, just wouldn't be the first time I've heard of something like that happening.


I saw something on tv about that..can't remember what but it did show that dogs can get very aggressive with dogs that are unwell in their own packs.

Good luck op with whatever decision you make.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I saw that too five on a Cesar Milan prog but this dog is aggressive to dogs in general too.  Shame eh?


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I saw that too five on a Cesar Milan prog but this dog is aggressive to dogs in general too.  Shame eh?


Yeh that is true but 5-6 months of normality and then an attack to a pack member that is unwell..might just be worth looking into if it can be 'fixed'.

By the way malmum lol you watch as much dog tv as I used to lol.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2012)

Malmum said:


> I agree with that as Mals can have same sex aggression but it doesn't mean they won't fight with the opposite sex - Kali for instance has no probs with Marty but she doesn't do it to dogs outside the home. Marty however does not usually retaliate but turns away by which time Kali has put herself on the floor! Blinking Mals, just don't understand them, lo.!
> 
> However even Mals don't put up such a fight but as you say it's probably to do with the breed.


i know of one person that has 5 american bulldogs [we used to be friends:001_rolleyes:] until i saw the set up their dogs were living in. 2 male dogs and 3 bitches one of the males lived outside the other 4 , 1 dog and 3 bitches were permanantly living in crates as they couldn`t be trusted to live together peacefully , they ate , drank and slept in those crates , apparently it wasnt always like that , just that once the dogs started hitting maturity there were loads of problems with the dogs fighting mainly the male dog , fighting with the bitches , though once that started to happen they had the bitches fighting too , so the owners solution was to shove them all in crates dotted around a 2 up 2 down home. which was no way for a person to be living , never mind the dogs walking them was a task in itself as they all had to be taken out seperately.
and you know when i see someone living that way , i`m far from happy , and i felt so sad for those dogs i did report to the rspca but they wouldn`t do anything , but when someone lives like that something somewhere must have to give as in my eyes it`s no way for a dog to be living or a small family last i heard was a few months ago the dogs 4 years on are still living that way because they cannot be trusted not to fight. sad state of affairs there
apparently it can be very common problem with american bulldogs living in multiple dog households so i`d go as far as saying unless your extremely experienced with the breed , they are probably an only dog.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Think I'll give AB's a miss then, bad enough that I have baby gates to separate the Mals unless I'm watching them, Kali mainly. At least they only scrap and stop when I shout and there's only spit on them afterwards. Even that's a bore, my girls have said never in a million years would they have one, bloody hard work I can tell you but at least I dont have to have crates. 
How awful for those dogs, no life at all for them really and pretty shite for the family too! 

Ha ha - too right five and there's a new one starting on Wednesday at 9pm, not Cesar Milan - think it's called Don't blame the dog - and is Australian. Saw a woman bawling and immediately gelled with her. Looking forward to that programe.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

My boy would go for boys or girls it wasn't a sex thing it was a being scared of other dogs in his close proximity ESP in enclosed spaces and it didn't help that he was quite possessive too. 

He was quite predictable though and very easy to manage and never had a falling out with my other dog from day one. Well the da developed after being attacked he was fine when we brought him hone.

It's hard to guess..

I know lots of ambulls who get on in multi dog households.. The other dogs are bull breeds too I think it may be a generalisation to say the don't get on. Has he def got ambull in him looks far more lean staff ish from memory.. But then again my memory is terrible.

When we were having problems we were seeing an apdt trainer for recall issues who was far cheaper than a behaviourist.. And she was also very knowledgible about behaviour and helped us loads as tek got attacked during that time. I know even with behaviourists help it may be for the best he doesn't stay but just a thought


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

My boy had also learnt that his other warnings had gone uninterrupted so he kept escalating and getting in there first.. He would also be mire likely to go for softer less scary fight back dogs ... Not daft. Maybe that's why he picked her. He also had redirected aggression to mums dog a couple of times. He sounds a horror.. He isn't lol

He would only ever slobber too apart from a coulpe of times we tried to intervene and there were accidental wounds were. a tooth had caught.

Iknow it's not helping to go over it all cos we will never probably know.. But just wanted to say my boy would go for girls too he was very unconfident and learns to use attack mode when in uncomfortabe situations with a dog


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

EmCHammer said:


> My boy would go for boys or girls it wasn't a sex thing it was a being scared of other dogs in his close proximity ESP in enclosed spaces and it didn't help that he was quite possessive too.
> 
> He was quite predictable though and very easy to manage and never had a falling out with my other dog from day one. Well the da developed after being attacked he was fine when we brought him hone.
> 
> ...


I agree totally. when Buster and Coles were in tact Buster was fine with Coles. Buster is totally fine with all dogs I bring into my home.

ETA OP, this may be a long shot but have you had Diseal checked out by a vet? It's with him attacking out of the blue maybe there's more to it? I don't know. I'm just trying to be helpful.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

kirksandallchins said:


> Would it not be possible to rehome the dog that was injured? If it has a good temperament and is not aggressive a good home would probably be more forthcoming. A DA dog will have problems getting rehomed, and as he has had a few homes already most owners would think even ore about taking him on.
> 
> Get professional help from a behaviourist and don't automatically think about rehoming the aggressor. He is your dog and your responsibility - and do not decide to rehome or PTS without thinking about all of your options.


I think this is a very unhelpful post. So you have your much loved dogs, take on a rescue which turns out to be a nightmare so you give away your own dogs and stick with the rescue - that really would be irresponsible.
And I think it has gone beyond getting a behaviourist. I very much disagree with dogs in a household being kept separate. It is no life for any of the dogs and it would be the only way forward here. The dog is growing up, his hormones are kicking in and he is only going to get worse as he gets more mature. An awful shame but there has been a good attempt to give him a decent home and either he has to be found a responsible home with no other dogs fairly quickly or put to sleep. To put him in kennels or pass him on to someone else who thinks they can manage his aggression would be sentimental and irresponsible.


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## theothersparticus (Jan 8, 2012)

Just want to post support for OP, this must be a terrible decision for you to make, I really hope that Diesel finds a good supportive home where he can be safe for himself and other dogs.

Hope Keyu (sp?) gets well soon.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Blitz said:


> I think this is a very unhelpful post. So you have your much loved dogs, take on a rescue which turns out to be a nightmare so you give away your own dogs and stick with the rescue - that really would be irresponsible.
> And I think it has gone beyond getting a behaviourist. I very much disagree with dogs in a household being kept separate. It is no life for any of the dogs and it would be the only way forward here. The dog is growing up, his hormones are kicking in and he is only going to get worse as he gets more mature. An awful shame but there has been a good attempt to give him a decent home and either he has to be found a responsible home with no other dogs fairly quickly or put to sleep. To put him in kennels or pass him on to someone else who thinks they can manage his aggression would be sentimental and irresponsible.


Agreed. Besides its entirely possible that he just singled out the weakest member of the pack first and if she were to be removed he would just move on to the other dogs. Hopefully somewhere can be found for him...
(poor ABs. yet another breed that will have their worst characteristics enhanced and bred from by idiots and morons!!)


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## TabithaJ (Apr 18, 2010)

- Just really wanted to echo what others have said about getting Diesel checked out physically. Just in case he's in pain or there is some underlying reason for the sudden aggression, given that you mention he's been good for months and this was really out of the blue.

Also to commend you for keeping Diesel until you can get help from a rescue and they can hopefully find him a a new home. You are doing all you can in a really horrible situation - and no matter what anyone says on this thread, YOU are the only one who knows this dog.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

he's got a vet appt tomorrow so we'll see if that shows up anything

we're not sure he is am bull, everyone we've spoke to thinks boxer x staff


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Good luck for him; at least you know you ruling out any medical conditions and obvious causes...

Let us know how you get on with chatting to any rescues today


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

sid&kira said:


> he's got a vet appt tomorrow so we'll see if that shows up anything
> 
> we're not sure he is am bull, everyone we've spoke to thinks boxer x staff


Can you post a pic please?


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## EllesBelles (May 14, 2010)

I'm glad you are getting him checked out. If nothing shows, at least you can confidently tell wherever he ends up that he is healthy, and has recently been checked.

Its one of those situations that you have to take one step at a time. First, a health check to discover any underlying conditions. Then, trying to find him somewhere to live. If it comes to the fact that no-one will take an aggressive bull type, then you might need to consider whether it would be best for him to have him PTS surrounded by people who love him. I don't think that is an option yet. 

There are people who take on dogs, and who would be happy to either undergo intensive training with him or just keep him as an only dog. I think if one of them can be found, there is no reason that he can't be rehomed. It will only pose a problem if it comes to giving him to a rescue.

I hope Keyu (I hope I've spelt that right!) is recovering okay, and I'm glad that their was nothing wrong with her eyes in the sense of blindness or tumours - Hopefully, it won't happen again. 

All the best x


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

sid&kira said:


> he's got a vet appt tomorrow so we'll see if that shows up anything
> 
> we're not sure he is am bull, everyone we've spoke to thinks boxer x staff


Fingers crossed for some good news after a horrible week x


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2012)

sid&kira said:


> he's got a vet appt tomorrow so we'll see if that shows up anything
> 
> we're not sure he is am bull, everyone we've spoke to thinks boxer x staff


ambulldogs are often confused with boxers.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Have contacted Hillside, they have no spaces  filled in the form & send pics to bullies in need and spoke to someone at bulliesos & sent her an email

:crying:


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## tattoogirl73 (Jun 25, 2011)

Having had to rehome one of my boys through fighting last year, you have got my deepest sympathy. It's not an easy decision but well done for thinking about all your dogs. I hope you manage to find a suitable new home for him where he can be a well adjusted single dog. Hope your girl is ok. ((((Hugs)))) Jayne


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

diablo said:


> ambulldogs are often confused with boxers.


Agree 100%. Buster is always getting mistaken for a boxer. Even the vet nurse at my vets thought Buster was a boxer!


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

sid&kira said:


> Have contacted Hillside, they have no spaces  filled in the form & send pics to bullies in need and spoke to someone at bulliesos & sent her an email
> 
> :crying:


To me he looks like staffie x am bulldog. He's face looks a little like Buster in the second pic.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

I think you are doing the right thing. I again also think this is not a failure on your part. You have done everything you can, and hopefully a new family can offer the requirements he needs (maybe an only dog family).


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I've been reading this thread but haven't replied because I honestly am lost for words. What a dreadful situation to find yourself in.  I hope Keyu gets better soon and I hope you can find a forever home for Diesel, but as some people have said that could be pretty tough.  Here's hoping he gets a lucky break and a responsible only dog home opens its doors to him.

I honestly don't know what I would do or how I would cope in this situation.

Wishing you all the strength in the world.


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

My previous post might've been missed, have you contacted the Blue Cross? They have a rehoming centre in Felixstowe and rehome dogs directly from one owner to another so they can stay out of kennels. They assess the dog, create a profile and potential owners can either meet the dog at the centre or in the current owner's home.
Blue Cross - Felixstowe rehoming centre
Blue Cross - About Home Direct

Suffolk Animal Rescue will take DA dogs and are a no-kill organisation but it's potluck as to whether they'll have a foster home ready or whether the dog goes into kennels. Jayne may be able to help out either way so could be worth contacting her.
Home

Good luck, I feel I would do the same in your position. Can understand where those putting forward the PTS argument are coming from but think that Diesel deserves another chance at such a young age, there's plenty of DA dogs living perfectly happy lives in knowledgeable single dog homes. Thinking of you and your pack x


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2012)

Jugsmalone said:


> To me he looks like staffie x am bulldog. He's face looks a little like Buster in the second pic.


he almost certainly is a american bulldog cross no doubt about it. more than likely crossed with a working strain such as a hines or scott dog , which are lighter framed dogs , something else which could explain his intolerance of other dogs as those don`t often do well with other dogs as they were bred to work and not bred for looks in the showring along with that he`s crossed with a staffy , which aren`t best known for their tolerance of other dogs either. he more than likely just needs something to do as the working strain ambulls are high energy dogs with intelligent brains that need tapping into.
i`d also go as far as saying careful consideration should be given as to whether he should be rehomed with children , i`d almost definately say he shouldn`t be with babies or toddlers.
few years ago these crosses were the `in` thing for the idiots to breed when really theres no need , as they are fabulous dogs in their own right.


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## BullyMolly (Sep 26, 2011)

Will have to agree and say he looks like Staff x AM Bull. 
That aside, what an awful predicament  

Just to add, alto of bull breeds mature later than other breeds. My EBT's don't finish till 2 or sometimes later. Molly was such a slender girl all the way up to 2. Even thought their was something wrong! Then (what seemed like over night) she pilled her weight on and all this muscle seemed to appear  All this with extra attitude!! At this point, I would never have put her with another dog-EVER!!! But now I have her putting up with a bouncy 7 month old pup 
I think you are right to look for another home for him. Being a one dog household would suit him down to the ground. And who know for his future, he may end up like Molly. But for now he needs this with an experienced owner. 
Don't beat yourself up, he can still have a very happy life and you can be safe in the knowledge that you were part of it.
Bullies in need and sos do amazing work and always tell the story as it is, and advise when they need to be an only dog :001_smile:


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Thorne said:


> My previous post might've been missed, have you contacted the Blue Cross? They have a rehoming centre in Felixstowe and rehome dogs directly from one owner to another so they can stay out of kennels. They assess the dog, create a profile and potential owners can either meet the dog at the centre or in the current owner's home.
> Blue Cross - Felixstowe rehoming centre
> Blue Cross - About Home Direct
> 
> ...


thanks gunna give SAR a ring and see if they can take him

Ideally i'd like to get him out and into a foster home who can assess him when he's not around other dogs, rather than go straight from one to the other if that makes sense?


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

So sorry to read this. I hope you can get things resolved for the best.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Dont give up trying with the rescues or get disheartened but do be prepared for many to be full etc - but got to keep at it and widen your scope if need be.
I don't know if some have waiting lists?

The blue cross do have a quite strict assessment and any dog that is deemed aggressive they may not take in. It depends on what the consideration of aggressive is, so many people have different opinions and that may just be people aggressive.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

If he is going into the vets Sid it might be worth asking them to run a Thyroid test, it can be expensive but if they ran a TSH and T4 at least it should give you an idea, if the TSH is high side and the T4 is low to low normal, it could be the answer. A Young dog shouldnt be low or low normal. Thyroid can cause really bad aggression, A few years ago there was a dog is rescue I remember that was an absolute horror, after testing he was put on meds and become an absolute pussy cat.

You might be interested in the link and figures Sid, The vet may say he is too young, or not worth testing because he isnt showing any clinical signs, but they dont have too they can be sub clinical, Nanuq was at 2 yrs, wasnt fat or lethargic the most common signs, but she was severly hypo thyroid, there is an auto immune one that comes on before 3 yrs old and been seen in dogs younger even then Nanuq was. Being a cross isnt a saviour either because Nanuq is, and not only has she got it two of the brothers have, and another was being tested, there were only 5 born one died 4 survived and 3 of the 4 have it so far. So likely worth getting him done.

Are your dogs seizures caused by Canine Epilepsy or Autoimmune Thyroiditis?

ETA ignore the heading its from an Epilepsy site it does contain statistics for aggresion with Hypo thyroid too


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> If he is going into the vets Sid it might be worth asking them to run a Thyroid test, it can be expensive but if they ran a TSH and T4 at least it should give you an idea, if the TSH is high side and the T4 is low to low normal, it could be the answer. A Young dog shouldnt be low or low normal. Thyroid can cause really bad aggression, A few years ago there was a dog is rescue I remember that was an absolute horror, after testing he was put on meds and become an absolute pussy cat.
> 
> You might be interested in the link and figures Sid, The vet may say he is too young, or not worth testing because he isnt showing any clinical signs, but they dont have too they can be sub clinical, Nanuq was at 2 yrs, wasnt fat or lethargic the most common signs, but she was severly hypo thyroid, there is an auto immune one that comes on before 3 yrs old and been seen in dogs younger even then Nanuq was. Being a cross isnt a saviour either because Nanuq is, and not only has she got it two of the brothers have, and another was being tested, there were only 5 born one died 4 survived and 3 of the 4 have it so far. So likely worth getting him done.
> 
> ...


the link doesnt work :lol:

I would but keyu has cost us over £300 since monday! i will talk to the OH about it as he deals with all the finances


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

sid&kira said:


> the link doesnt work :lol:
> 
> I would but keyu has cost us over £300 since monday! i will talk to the OH about it as he deals with all the finances


Cant u nderstand why the link insnt working for you seems to be fine you can try this one, although there is loads more to wade through the original link was a shortened version with lots less reading.

Thyroid-Articles


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Hi Sid 

How did you get on at the vets?


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Good luck with finding a suitable rescue and may be worth mentioning about any medical issues you wonder if he has. Perhaps they can get treatment cheaper as some vets charge just for basics with rescues, at least that's what they said on a recent RSPCA prog.

Have to say Sid I'm surprised you still have him afraid if it were me I wouldn't, as I'd be too worried for your girl especially after what she's gone through with her eye and all, my priority would be with her as I'm sure you would want it to be let alone getting tests done for Diesel. Makes me seem wicked but I think really I'm just being realistic.


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