# male guinea pig bully!



## encn71

We have two male guinea pigs which are almost a year old. We have had them since they were 6 weeks old and they have always lived happily in their shared cage together.
This week one pig has started to pick on the other one and won't let it into the 'bed' area of the cage so he has to sit in the other area which of course is colder as it has the bars of the cage.
Is it usual for guinea pigs which have been happy companions to turn on each other? I wondered if it is because they are male and have become sexually mature. 
Any ideas please?


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## kat04kt

Hello, 

Male guinea pigs can become sexually mature from as little as three weeks - so after a year this is deffo not it! The hormonal teenage era usually starts at 3 months but can last upto 18 months. If this is the first time that you've noticed any bullying then here's a few things to check:

First thing - Is the one that is being bullied fit and healthy? Illness would be my first thought when two normally very happy well bonded piggies start to fall out, especially if one is being bullied (you have to think survival of the fittest, out in the wild a poorly piggy would slow a herd down) - check what they are eating and sit to make sure they are eating (not picking and then walking away - not eating is the first sign to spot but you have to really sit and watch), check their urine and poop output, any discolouration? any lifting of the bottom? any squeaks of pain passing urine or poop? Check the eyes, and nose are all clear and there no crusty bits. How is the breathing? Any crackling or a rattling chest? Listen to the guinea pigs chest, any clicking noises coming from inside?
Any unusual scratching? check the skin for any bold patches.
None of these symptons but you have noticed that your piggy isn't eating - maybe a dental problem.
Weigh them, and keep track of their weight everyday at the same time (an empty tummy compared to a full one will bring up differences of up to 20g) - if the one being bullied seems to be losing weight straight to the vet.

- Essentially check for any signs of illness. Remember guinea pigs being prey animals are excellent at hiding their symptons, until it's too late - keep a really close eye out for illness and straight to the vet if you suspect anything. Most piggy illnesses can be treated easily enough if you catch them in time. 

If piggies are all fit and healthy have a look at the following things:

How big is the cage? Two boars ideally need a cage that is 140cm in length, the bigger the better. Are they getting out and about enough? Boredom, lack of space to get away from each other - can make tensions flare. 

Make sure there is two of everything. Don't allow one to hog the bedroom create two bedrooms. Place bowls of food at either end of the cage (the bully pig can't be in two places at once).

Some people like bonding baths, this is where you bath the piggies, in a piggy friendly shampoo together, so they smell the same. (I'm dubious about this method, but some swear by it). Again make sure they are both fit and healthy a poorly piggy will not do well with a bath!

Change all the beddings, disinfect/wash all the toys and completely revamp the cage - swap everything about, and/or buy new toys/beds etc if you can, basically make it like it's a brand new cage.

Any sows been nearby? The scent of a sweet girl can make the best of buddies begin war. 

Sometimes for no real reason that us humans know about, two boars can fall out. Watch for signs of aggression. This, however. sounds like one of the piggies is being submissive if he's allowing the other boar to bully him out the bedroom. I really would check and recheck for illness, that would be my first thought. 

Let me know how you get on xxxx


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## encn71

Thank you so much for all your advice. 
I think you have pointed to the problem for me!
We have just left them with our friends for a week, in their own cage, as we went on holiday. These friends have female pigs! They weren't ever left out together as they didn't want them to mate of course but they will most certainly have been able to smell them! 
Ok so where do we go from here?
Will they become friends again once the dominant one has calmed down?
They do go out almost every day into a large run on the grass so I could let them do that separately?
Now there is no female smell will he forget about them?!
Thank you!
Emma


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## swatton42

Just wanted to say, I agree mostly with Kat, apart from the 2 of everything thing. In my opinion and experience that is encouraging territorial behaviour and you will end up with 2 seperate 'territories' in the same hutch and no real social bond. Providing the dominant male hasn't had a chance to mate with a female then they should settle again quite quickly when away from the female scent.

If you are concerned then treat the pair as a new bond again. Don't seperate them at this stage, even just for a run on the grass. If they start to show signs of excessive teeth chattering and rumbling then you may want to split them before they start to fight. It shouldn't come to that though. 

The bath method has worked for me when I've tried it, but I don't usually bother to be honest. Some people also recommend a short trip out in a carry case together. The movement in the car or walking around with the carrier should encourage them to cuddle up to each other for comfort and therefore kick-start the bond again.


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## encn71

Thank you for that advice. I did think that as we have established that the behaviour is a result of females which are no longer present that separating them may just reinforce the territory fight! 
We have removed the submissive one just for a few hours so he can get some rest and eat, and we have found a scratch on his back so I may take him to the vet anyway just in case he needs something for that. I really don't want to separate them as they are such friendly sociable creatures and I am sure will be unhappy alone.
I will scrub the cage inside and out to remove any lady smells and get some new toys etc and then watch carefully to make sure that the situation doesn't get worse.
You say treat them like a new bond again but as an inexperienced pig owner I am not sure about how to do that. Would you mind giving me an idea please of what steps to take?
Thank you again,
I have become strangely attached to the little fellas even though I am not really a pet person and they actually belong to my son!!


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## JTK79

my boys live well together and although they do rumble alot they dont fight and share a food bowl and a water bottle but they do like to have seperate sleeping areas  I have heard of lots of stories of boys getting on well and all of a sudden they will fall out and need to be seperated so I have always had this in my mind and know that one day I might have to seperate them and have them neutered and get them a couple of girlfriends


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## encn71

Max and Rex are currently lying next to each other in a plastic box which I left near my three noisy children so they would need to comfort each other! I have scrubbed the cage inside and out and removed their old card tunnel. I will put them back in later and cross my fingers that they will have begun to bond again.
Thank you all, I hope it will work!
Emma


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## encn71

Not a success yet I am afraid, Max has once again been pushed out of his bed into the corner of the cage :frown5: We will keep trying!


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## kat04kt

Hi, sorry not able to respond sooner, one of my rescue piggies just gave birth this morning....! Yikes! Mother and baby are fine and doing well.

Take everything out of the cage that they could get territorial about. Drape a fleece over one half of the cage. This creates an open space bedroom. This is really the best thing to do, take the hideys out for the time being.

You need two bowls, two water bottles and two hay racks/tubs etc. This shouldn't increase territorial behaviour at all or weaken the bond, it gives way to an attitude of, 'ok that's mine, and that's your's', let's get on with things 

If they appear to be getting back to normal and friendly later then you can reintroduce toys slowly later.

Time out does work also, missing each other can reaffirm the bond, but not for too long (anything from a few hours, to one or two nights) but ensure they can still see each other, i.e. side-by-side cages. Don't seperate completely as then you have to reintroduce.

Have a look at these threads, contains lots of great information on boars and bonding and general sums up the best advice given from the rescue's on boar bonding 

Boars: A guide to successful companionship. - The Guinea Pig Forum

Boars! Simple Dominance Displays or Fighting? - The Guinea Pig Forum

xxxx


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## encn71

Good news about your new arrival Kat!
OK so this is what is happening our end...
We have removed the bedroom 'wall' and at the opposite end of the cage have draped a picnic blanket.
My husband has cut up two shoe boxes to make two little hiding places one at each end filled with hay. 
We haven't done anything about the food and water yet as this doesn't seem to be an issue at the moment, but we will be keeping a close eye on it and if the submissive one is missing out that will be the next step!
Thanks again!
Emma


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## kat04kt

No problem - best of luck  xx


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## encn71

AAAGH!
A bad night, it is escalating to more of a mini fight rather than just pushing him out. I have separated them for Max's safety but have no way of letting them see or smell each other as only have one cage, so I can't do that for long.
I am going to buy a 2 tier cage today and make a second bedroom on the ground floor with its own water and food. 
I will then try the bath etc.
Do you think that it will be ok if they have their own separate areas but can access both floors via the ramp? The cage I have seen has a trap door which you can close if you need to to make it like 2 cages if they need 'time out'.

I would really appreciate some more advice before I pay for this new cage as I don't want to buy it if it is the wrong decision!

Thank you!


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## JTK79

Have you had a look here? Its a great site and they have helped me loads with my boys  Guinea Pig Forum | Guinea pig care information in Jersey, Channel Islands | Care Resource & Guinea Pig Forum | Rodents With Attitude


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## encn71

Hi, we are now off to the vets as I had a good look at Max and I think his scent gland is very sore from being scratched.
I have put some chicken wire down the middle of the cage to keep them apart but so they can still smell each other and have a chat, not that Max wants to do much this afternoon except hide in the corner.
Poor things, I am getting worried we may not get to a happy conclusion. I really don't want to separate them!


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## encn71

Vet says he has lots of scratches on his back and on his scent gland but is very healthy and none are infected. She said to keep them separate but together for a few days and then gradually reintroduce them. 
Attached is a photo of the redesigned run I have made in the garden. Rex (the dominant one) is by the plant pot and Max is hiding in the shoe box!!
Their cage is now separated by chicken wire.
Thanks to everyone for your helpful advice it has really been great, and also having someone to voice ideas and concerns to is a help!
Lets hope it all turns out ok in the end and they become friends again.
Emma


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## encn71

One more question!!!!

All is peaceful in the hutch/run with separating chicken wire. Max has settled now he isn't afraid of being attacked all the time and is eating loads.
I was thinking I should maybe keep changing which side they are in so they have to live in each other's smells. Do you think that is the right thing to do or will it fire Rex (the dominant one) up again? I don't want their smells to become alien to each other for when I try to reintroduce them.

Thank you (again!)


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## JTK79

Thats good they are settling  they will still be able to smell and see each other where they are so I would leave them while they are happy.


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## kat04kt

It sounds like you are doing everything right. Please do sign up for theguineapigforum - there's is so much advice there on boar behaviour, bonding and rebonding. It's very very similar to this site but entirely focused on guinea pigs. So many members have experienced what you're experiencing now and will have some great advice. 

I think the hutch is a good idea, but I can't see the pic!


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## encn71

Thank you. I have registered on the Guinea Pig Forum today and had a good read. I am going to wait to buy a two storey hutch because if we are not successful in bonding them again and have to close the hatch between the floors they won't be able to communicate. I have searched and searched for a hutch with two bedrooms on the same level with some sort of mesh partition between but to no avail. 
They are sniffing and chatting between the chicken wire and showing no aggression so I am hopeful. 
Emma


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## kat04kt

Are they outdoor guinea pigs? If not, and they are kept indoors - have you thought about a C&C cage?


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## encn71

Yes they are outdoor ones and so the C&C cage won't work unfortunately. I think we will have to get two cages and let them face each other if I can't get them to re bond.


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## encn71

Just had an hour of both pigs in run together. After some initial mounting and rough and tumble without teeth, they were very happy chatting and charging about together. Tomorrow we try the cage......


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## encn71

A short update!
We ended up buying a 5ft cage and two pigloos, 2 food bowls and 2 water bottles. They are in there together today for the first time and I am watching carefully.
Rex is still the boss and is even being cheeky and stealing Max's food and running off with it. I don't think he has hurt him yet though.
If it goes pear shaped again we are going to divide it with wire mesh and they will still have a good sized area each.
Such heartache and stress and expense from 2 small animals!
Thanks
Emma


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