# Shipping Bred Rabbits



## delstu (Feb 20, 2012)

I want to start a breeding program for a specific breed of rabbit. Most breeders won't even sell bred rabbits, much less ship them.

Am I missing something? Are there problems associated with shipping pregnant rabbits?


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2012)

delstu said:


> I want to start a breeding program for a specific breed of rabbit. Most breeders won't even sell bred rabbits, much less ship them.
> 
> Am I missing something? Are there problems associated with shipping pregnant rabbits?


Sorry but if you are having to ask that question I would suggest you go back to doing more research about breeding


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Delstu - rabbits are extremely sensitive creatures, you should never buy a pet before seeing it in person, preferably with its parents and genetic history. If you are serious about breeding rabbits then I would recommend you spend a full year shadowing someone who breeds show quality rabbits.


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## delstu (Feb 20, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Sorry but if you are having to ask that question I would suggest you go back to doing more research about breeding


I have been doing research. A respected breeder has been shipping bred rabbits for many years with no apparent problems. Perhaps that is because they are shipped extremely early in their pregnancy.

Does anyone have any actual experience with this. You state that I need to do more research but give no information to back up your statement. Could I get some real information? How can I do any research without actual data?

No offense, but I need more.


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## delstu (Feb 20, 2012)

emzybabe said:


> Delstu - rabbits are extremely sensitive creatures, you should never buy a pet before seeing it in person, preferably with its parents and genetic history. If you are serious about breeding rabbits then I would recommend you spend a full year shadowing someone who breeds show quality rabbits.


I have spent 3 days researching nearby (200 miles) breeders and only found one (out of many) that I could get enough information about to verify they breed 'show quality' rabbits.

If I could find one within a days drive I would be willing to travel. Any suggestions?


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2012)

delstu said:


> I have been doing research. A respected breeder has been shipping bred rabbits for many years with no apparent problems. Perhaps that is because they are shipped extremely early in their pregnancy.
> 
> Does anyone have any actual experience with this. You state that I need to do more research but give no information to back up your statement. Could I get some real information? How can I do any research without actual data?
> 
> No offense, but I need more.


Shipping pregnant rabbits is too stressful for them, the pregnancy in itself is stressful let alone having the stress of travel (which many rabbits don't like), and then the added stress of settling into a new home with new people.

The added stress can cause the doe to reabsorb the kits, increases the risk of the doe giving birth to dead kits or culling the kits once they are born.

Surely you should have worked out it isn't something many breeders will do when you say:



> Most breeders won't even sell bred rabbits, much less ship them.


There is very good reason why the majority won't sell a pregnant doe let alone ship her across the country


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## delstu (Feb 20, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> There is very good reason why the majority won't sell a pregnant doe let alone ship her across the country


B3rnie, can you direct me to a research facility that has done some actual work in this area?


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## Tidgy (Jun 30, 2010)

even a 10 min drive to and from the vets scares the living crap out of mikey, by the time we get to the vets hes shaking like a leaf bless him, he does soon calm down after he gets home and back into his familiar hutch.


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

If you are looking to start a breeding prorgamme, why are you looking for a female who is already pregnant?

If you are starting the programme, surely you want control of the programme. Starting with careful selection of a male and female that you believe have the genetic history, characterisics, healthy background and finally appearance that you are looking for.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2012)

delstu said:


> B3rnie, can you direct me to a research facility that has done some actual work in this area?


Speaking to people who are experienced, talking to many, many breeders, talking to many, many rescues, personally knowing how stressed a rabbit can become during travel.

No respected breeder will transport pregnant does IMO.

There is no such research facility that will transport pregnant does to see what impact it has to them


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

the breeder cant be that respectfull if hes shipping pregnant rabbits


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

I think if I was breeding them once I had researched and chosen the breed I would hope to find a respected established breeder as a mentor. When I was ready I would be looking for a good Doe which nicely meets the standard if points for that breed and who's genetic history I could trace back probably 5 generations. I'd also be looking for a buck with the same. I think you are 100% better off owning both male and female so you know 100% who the father to the babies is. She'd be under much less stews, you'd retain control of your breeding programme


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Travel is stressful enough for rabbits it would be much worse for a pregnant doe  and if they get stressed they can kill their babies can't they? I would get good quality does and bucks and start from there


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## delstu (Feb 20, 2012)

Tidgy said:


> even a 10 min drive to and from the vets scares the living crap out of mikey, by the time we get to the vets hes shaking like a leaf bless him, he does soon calm down after he gets home and back into his familiar hutch.


Thank you Tidgy. That is some actual data that might be useful. Unfortunately, a field of one is too small to qualify as research.

Sorry to hear Mikey reacts that way. Our rabbits do just fine going to 4H shows or the vets office.

Anyone else have anything useful aside from opinions and preferences?

There are others I would reply to, one or two actually posted something useful, but this forum won't let me post more than once for a period of time. Anyone know how long to wait? I cannot find it in the rules.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

delstu said:


> Thank you Tidgy. That is some actual data that might be useful. Unfortunately, a field of one is too small to qualify as research.
> 
> Sorry to hear Mikey reacts that way. Our rabbits do just fine going to 4H shows or the vets office.
> 
> ...


You would do well if you actually read all the replies so far. Or are you waiting for that one reply that tells you it is ok??

I will repeat transporting pregnant does can cause a great deal of stress which could result in the doe reabsorbing the kits (puts a great deal of strain on the doe), giving birth to dead kits (puts a huge strain on the doe) or could result in the doe culling some or all of the kits shortly after giving birth (stressed does have been known to cull kits as late as 4 weeks).
I am not saying this because I plucked it out of thin air, I am saying this after many, many hours of research, talking to countless people that have studied rabbits for years, talking with breeders and rescues.

Yes some "breeders" (I use the term loosely) may have transported pregnant does without any "obvious" problems, but transporting any rabbit *can* be stressful *Fact*

Why would you risk it with a pregnant doe?
Why can't you just source a buck and a doe from reputable breeders, transport them to you (before breeding) and then mate them once they have settled into their new homes?
Why the need to transport pregnant does?


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## delstu (Feb 20, 2012)

I would prefer to find a breeder close enough that I could pick up the rabbits personally. But most people feel that shipping is too stressful for a pregnant doe. However, all I find are opinions and preferences, no actual facts. I have only found one person that answers with their own experience - taking their bun to the vet.

Some question why I would want a pregnant doe when starting my own breeding program. First off is that it is difficult to find a breeder with a real breeding program to improve the breed; most have a haphazard program. A quality breeder knows his own stock and is best qualified to select a mating for the best results. When buying several rabbits, having one senior doe already bred can jump-start a breeding program.

So far, everyone believes it is too stressful for the doe and I will not order a bred doe unless I find evidence proving otherwise. That too is hard to find.


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## Angel pedigrees (Feb 2, 2012)

I don't know what sort of data you require on this but i think its more about common sense!!

The thought of shipping a Pregnant Rabbit to a new home is just wrong, cant understand why you cant see that and certainly cant understand you wanting data to prove that!

These are precious animals and not just something you can ship around for you own gain ( yes own gain ) because i see no reason in doing this when pregnant what so ever !!


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## Minion (Jan 11, 2012)

swatton42 said:


> If you are looking to start a breeding prorgamme, why are you looking for a female who is already pregnant?
> 
> If you are starting the programme, surely you want control of the programme. Starting with careful selection of a male and female that you believe have the genetic history, characterisics, healthy background and finally appearance that you are looking for.


I was thinking the same thing.

If you plan to start the breeding program from kits you are going to end up with incest which will reduce the variability within the gene pool which can create an awful lot of problems, especially with regard to immune systems.

As for scientific papers on the subject, I have access to all papers since 1970 through my university. There doesn't appear to be any papers on pregnant females and travel... I guess like Bernie said, It's common sense. Did find a paper on general stress though. It's with regard to rats but the principles apply to every animal. Stress of pregnant females has been scientifically proven to reduce litter size and reduce the mass of the litter as the females invest less energy into them (both before and after they are born). It is an evolutionary adaptation, as the mother will not invest energy into her kits if she thinks they or herself are in danger. From my course this has been the case from everything from rats and mice to birds and whales.

Ref: Gotz et al. 2008. Psychosocial maternal stress during pregnancy: Effects on reproduction for F0 and F1 generation laboratory rats. Physiology & Behavior. 93: 1055-1060.

In future, if you want scientific facts I suggest you look up journals yourself (google scholar), rather than insulting people who won't tell you what you want to hear. A lot of the people on this site have years of experience with rabbits and although I have to do a lot of referencing from scientific papers for my work, I have personally found that hands on experience is the best information you can get.


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## Angel pedigrees (Feb 2, 2012)

This thread makes me really angry, i know of people who have done this with dogs and not one of them think its wrong, its sick!! 

So now you have your data and all state how wrong this is, hope that proves that this shouldn't be done but TBH if your looking into it or even considering it then we need say no more on you as a human being!


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## delstu (Feb 20, 2012)

It is impossible to participate in a discussion when the forum settings will only allow me to post once per day.

I do NOT advocate shipping. I became interested in finding out more when I was researching rabbit breeders. If nothing else, I would be very concerned about how baggage handlers would treat a rabbit, adding to the bunnies stress levels.

This article at Rabbits.org does have some information
FAQ: Vacations and Travel


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## Minion (Jan 11, 2012)

delstu said:


> It is impossible to participate in a discussion when the forum settings will only allow me to post once per day.
> 
> I do NOT advocate shipping. I became interested in finding out more when I was researching rabbit breeders. If nothing else, I would be very concerned about how baggage handlers would treat a rabbit, adding to the bunnies stress levels.
> 
> ...


I've only just seen that you are from America. When you said shipping I thought you mean't someone was bringing it from abroad in a car (across the channel). The stress levels that would cause a pregnant rabbit are the same as above and you shouldn't do it.

Travel is quite stressful for some rabbits anyway, although I know someone that drove from England to Belgium to live and their rabbit was fine. My rabbit has also been on a 4 hour train journey. I covered him in a blanket which he hated so I took it off. Turns out he was quite happy in his cage with a window view and then he decided to rearrange all of his straw onto the woman's lap next to me!!! (I thought I was being nice getting him a large cat carrier instead of a rabbit carrier).

But they will not let a pregnant rabbit fly. They also recommend any rabbit that does fly flies with someone in seating. They will need hay during the flight but you have to remember to throw the remaining away before you leave the plane, as no hay or veggies are allowed to be brought in to the US.

Also to get into the US all animals have to be quarantined for quite a long time too... Don't quote me on this but I'm sure it is 6months, with health checks done, not only to ensure they are healthy enough to fly but to make sure they are healthy enough to go into the US. Therefore, if you try smuggling a pregnant female you will be caught out. Once again breeding the babies will cause incest.

If you do intend to import a rabbit I recommend you go to wherever it is to pick it up yourself and bring it back. To start a proper breeding program you would also need more than one female so that she is not over bred.

What kind of rabbit is it anyway?


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2012)

-gives up-


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

I am quite confused by you, you want to ship a pregnant doe? even if successful how would that 1 pregnant doe and her related litter create a breeding line. If you needed to ship at all it would be far wise to ship 1 doe and 1 unrelated buck. Then in time the same again to improve your existing line. The whole idea of shipping a pregnant doe is immoral because of the stress you would put her through. But the fact that you would never create a good breeding line from her would also make breeding immoral.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

also you should be able to post every 30 seconds


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

In America I think it is quite common to ship animals - usually by plane due to the distances involved. 

I have seen this on dog breeder sites (including the famous Skansens Schnauzers) and on US forums when I bred chinchillas.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2012)

kirksandallchins said:


> In America I think it is quite common to ship animals - usually by plane due to the distances involved.
> 
> I have seen this on dog breeder sites (including the famous Skansens Schnauzers) and on US forums when I bred chinchillas.


Yes shipping animals is quite common, shipping pregnant animals is a completely different story


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

well i have been avoiding this on purpose, but your attitude is just..... well beyond words really.......


rabbits are incredably sensative creatures, they are very prone to heart attacks from excessive stress because they have such small hearts.

shipping a rabbit is VERY stressful and you could easily end up with a dead rabbit arriving on your door step.
this is a scientifically KNOWN and PROVEN fact

any animal that is expecting a litter NEEDS to be kept stress free (again this is a well known fact)
if they are exposed to stress, at any point in the prgnancy they can self abort and reabsorb the litter, or they could scatter the litter when they eventually have them, or even cull them (even brutally ripping them to pieces)

thats of course if she survived the stress of the journey, which is made 10x worse if she is pregnant

these are well known facts, and are a matter of common sense, this is why you havent found any respectable breeder who will sell you a mated rabbit! and to be honest i would steer well clear of any breeder who is willing to do so


if you want to breed your best bet is to get in a trio of unrelated rabbits (1 buck and 2 does) from a good breeder and start from there.
bringing in an already pregnant doe to start your lines is not going to get you any where in establishing a good breeding line, despite what you may think, which im sorry, is a load of nonsense


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