# Breeding queens and the future...



## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

I know this topic COULD cause a stir, please keep calm before posting 

I was watching my queen earlier on today, her kittens feeding from her. It was beautiful to watch and for a few loving minutes i couldn't imagine being without her BUT i know that if i want to continue breeding in the years to come i will have to neuter and sell her to a family where she can be a much loved pet. It's what she deserves.
I only have space for 2 queens here (until my pet cats pass on), it would simply be unfair to have any more. I absolutely adore my queen and it will be very painful to let her go.

Just wondering what other breeders do, and what thoughts there are on this subject. 
I believe in an ideal world we would all love to keep our queens for life, but often it's simply not possible. It's sad but true.


----------



## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

That is just one of the reasons (amongst many) why I could never be a breeder. I couldn't bear having to give any of my pets away to someone else. They are part of my family so giving them to someone else seems abhorrent to me. Doing so and then getting a replacement would leave me racked with guilt.

But I do see that breeders can not necessarily keep Queens for breeding for too long. I guess it is just something breeders have to deal with and for some it must be a painful decision.

Do breeders find it easy to find good homes for ex-breeding adult cats?


----------



## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

its a hard one as many decide to do as you say and get them done and rehome,. If they want to continue with new blood lines. Others may decide to keep them as there own till they pass on. But as you say this option is not possible for you. Have you any prev people that have had cats from you that may want another cat. May be worth asking if they already have one of your offspring. Some may advertise with the breed rescue it self to insure being homed with someone that may want a certain breed. And some may want a adult rather than go through the kitten stage. Its a hard subject as many will have there own thoughts on this. Personally i dont know if i could let her go myself but everyones situation is different . And of course im not a breeder also.


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

It is very difficult to do. I've only ever done it with young cats, around a year old, when I thought I would be breeding from them and then it didn't happen. It must be much harder with older ones, though I know many breeders do it. I suppose the only way you can do it is to tell yourself cosntantly that they are temporary residents, though I know that is easier said than done too (I have a six month old "temporary resident" here, I never intended to keep her, but now I simply can't bear to part with her)

Liz


----------



## 2flowers (Jan 24, 2010)

Hi Alison...this is a very emotive issue and a dilemma I don't think many would fully understand unless they are a breeder in my opinion.

It is something that I often think about to be honest. I am a new breeder and currently I have two neuters and three breeding queens. This is my absolute maximum number of cats I would consider having as a breeder, who is breeding within my home. Luckily my house has three floors so it is possible to separate the cats when needed (i.e a queen and her litter, away from the other cats as I do not allow kittens to mix with the other cats). My cats have access to a safe and secure garden fitted with the Katzecure system, and thus they have a very good quality of life here, and are very pampered! 

My husband and I have discussed this as length as all of the cats are much loved and adored by us all. He is adamant he could not part with any of them and I am unsure how I would ultimately cope with such a choice, but I know it would be heartbreaking for me to let any of my babies go as they are our family pets....BUT if I wish to remain a breeder in the long term, then it is something I will have to consider at some point.....

Most breeders I know allow their queens to enjoy their retirement from breeding in wonderful pet homes, often accompanied by a kitten. I have had two enquiries recently from people looking for young adults or older cats, so I know there are people out their willing to offer loving homes if needed.

Worse scenario example...if all three of my queens have problems birthing this year and had to each have a c-section and were spayed, then unless I considered finding them loving pet homes, I would have to cease my hobby of breeding, which I am very passionate about. 

One of the reasons that I breed (apart from adoring having kittens around of course), is that I want to help preserve and try to improve the breed that I love, particularly the lilac british shorthairs as in my opinion we are still way behind the Dutch breeders with the newer colours of the breed.


----------



## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

The way I see it is, have a firm number in your head regarding the absolute maximum numbers of cats you can have in your home. 

Then when the time comes for a female (or male for that matter) to retire&#8230; it&#8217;s a &#8220;simple&#8221; question of deciding between
-- rehome and continue to breed
or 
-- keep the retied cat and stop breeding

(the word simple is in inverted commas because of course it&#8217;s never a simple decision)

I think rehoming a much loved retired queen is soooooooooo much more preferable than getting into &#8220;overcrowded with cats&#8221; type of situation that way too many breeders have, that it would make it much easier for me to do, as it&#8217;s choosing the lesser of two evils. Considering having an overcrowded (with cats) home is so alien to me and my way of thinking that it would act as incentive to me to rehome retired queens. 

I know I am not a breeder... but this is the exact same policy I have had over the years with my many fosters. Yes of course you get cats through your door that you bond with and love and would love to keep (not to mention orphan kittens you were the sole carer for), and I have always just accepted the fact that as soon as I keep a foster, that's when I stop fostering as my (personal) maximum is 2 cats. When (if) I ever move to 3 cats, I will stop fostering. Or possibly I would review my maximal numbers if I ever moved to a huge home (won't happen though as I don't even like huge homes, lol).


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

BSH said:


> That is just one of the reasons (amongst many) why I could never be a breeder. I couldn't bear having to give any of my pets away to someone else. They are part of my family so giving them to someone else seems abhorrent to me. Doing so and then getting a replacement would leave me racked with guilt.


It's the same with me and not only would I be racked with guilt, I would be heart broken :frown:

While I think breeding queens and bitches, if spayed before re-homing and carefully placed in loving homes, invariably seem to have a better life ... I think the fact that so many breeders do this routinely and accept it so readily, shows that their relationship with their cats and dogs is not one based on love and they do not have the bond that a "real" animal lover does.
Not sure if "real animal lover" is right term, it's what I mean, but can't quite find the right way to say it.

I suppose I'm trying to get accross is that if you really have a deep love for your animals, you do not view them as disposable once they are of no more use to you?

I have always believed that those who breed and sell on their adults breeding animals, do not see their cats and dogs as those of us with companion animals do. How can they and part with them?

This is not to say they cannot an do not provide good care for them while with them, or they do not care where they go once they no longer want them. It's simply a different attitude to animals I think :confused1:

Again, I'll say careful re-homing is usually in ex breeeding animals best interests if many animals are kept and if it is done correctly. I don't think it is cruel, "heartless", well yes a bit, but that's my personal feeling, because I could not do it to my animals.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Personally I couldnt do it - but then I would never breed either -I would be far too emotionally involved - I can see the practical side of it though - breeders have to see things from a different aspect to those who just have a pet.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i couldnt do it so wouldnt breed cats, but i think its far kinder to let them go to loving homes than get over run with them to the point that they are neglected...this is when breeders become horders!, i bet some poor ex breeding queens are left in outdoor sheds to live out their miserable lives practically forgotten about.. now in these scenarios it would be far kinder to think of the animal and find them wonderful new homes such breeders should not put their own selfish feelings 1st!


----------



## Guest (Dec 15, 2010)

I dont breed cats but I do know that I wont be rehoming any of my brood bitches once they are no longer breeding, they will be spayed and kept with me.


----------



## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I dont breed cats but have bred and shown dogs.When we started breeding ,in the back of our mind was the possiblity of having to part with bitches if we were to continue breeding.As all our dogs lived in the house there was limited space.After the first litter any thought of parting with a breeding bitch was out of the question.The bond that is made between owner and bitch during the birth and rearing process was something we had never expected.Needless to say once we reached our maximum comfortable number of dogs we had to chose whether to rehome or stop breeding.No contest we stopped breeding.It may be different with cats ,perhaps the bond and trust built up is not as strong,but I could never part with any animal who has given me pleasure.


----------



## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

I couldnt breed cats, simple.

My pets are more than a means to an end for me, they are family and you dont turn your back on family.

when i split with my ex he promised to keep my 2 chihuahuas till i got a place of my own (had to move in with my dad who hated small dogs.) The b****** lied, moved to England and sold them 

I tracked down one who is living happily with other chi's but my other girl Cleo i dunno where she is and it breaks my heart. Id dearly love to have both of them back at any price


----------



## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

Thats so sad about your chi's, i would have been gutted and raging! 

My max number of cats is going to have to be 4. That's 2 breeding queens and 2 pets that i couldn't part with for various reasons.

I have been a breeder for 10 years, though not always of cats. I have been used to having to sell animals on. I don't want to give up breeding, but don't want to compromise their quality of life by overcrowding.

It's a decision that i've forced myself to make. It's going to be very difficult to find the 'right' homes for my girls, but i know i will have to if i want to continue breeding.


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

So if cat breeders (in general) dont have the space to keep retired queens, what do you do if owners need to rehome their kittend. Do you not take them back?


----------



## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

I've been thinking about this very topic for a while and have decided for me it will be something like this _if_ I do continue to breed:

I currently have Aurelia who had her first litter this year. I would have another 2 (max) litters from her over the next 2 years.

Tinks ~ She will be taken to stud when Aurelia's litter next year are going to their new homes.

Itty ~ She will be taken to stud when Tinks' litter are going to their new homes.

This cycle will continue for the next couple of years. On Itty's second litter we will look at keeping a girl back so that she matures for the following year while Tinks and Itty produce their 3rd and final litters. Then for the following 3 years the new addition will have 1 litter a year, on her finally litter we might keep one more girl back and repeat the 3 year/litter plan. But any more than that and I think we would be seriously pushing capacity limits, while taking into account the possibility of having to take kittens back for whatever reason.

So this means we will have a breeding cycle of 6 - 8 years breeding, then 8+ years rest (if we are lucky enough to have our girls live long happy lives ).

I don't want to have to rehome any of my girls as they are my 'daughters' first and foremost. Also this 6 - 8 years of breeding will be 6 - 8 years without a proper holiday and what not, so the gap between breeding cycles will give us chance to rest properly.

That's my plan. But I know it could all be turned upside down quite easily ... so I may have a break forced on me quicker for a multitude of reasons.

For me this is the only way I would continue to breed. The way I have helped Aurelia raise her kits this year has been a magical experience, and I wouldn't do it any other way. I still feel a very strong connection to the two girls that went to new homes and I can't imagine that being any different for future litters. I spend 13 weeks loving their very souls and giving them as much love and affection as they can handle, I wouldn't do that any other way either and I can't do that without being sure I only have one litter at a time.


----------



## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

alisondalziel said:


> Thats so sad about your chi's, i would have been gutted and raging!
> 
> My max number of cats is going to have to be 4. That's 2 breeding queens and 2 pets that i couldn't part with for various reasons.
> 
> ...


still looking for her, ill never give up till i at least know she is safe 

I know where you are coming from tho and it is kinder to rehome than have them overcrowded.


----------



## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

My feeling is that cat breeders should always have extra spaces for emergencies as being "full" or maximised is not a place any ethical breeder should be in.
There are always the possibility of kittens who need returned and are almost impossible to re-home, the possibility that kittens will not sell for months (which in a recession is a very real possibility), that older girls or studs will not find good homes easily, there are also the diseased/deformed/disabled kittens that no-one wants as well. There is also the kitten(s) that you want to keep, whether that is for emotional reasons, or just because it/they is/are an amazing example of the breed. Even breeding queens/studs that become ill and need looking after, will you just re-home ASAP, pts or would you want to try and look after them yourself?
Life is never cut and dried and to start breeding with no space for eventualities is madness and it inevitably leads to hoarding and overcrowded spaces, unless it is quickly recognised and the breeding is stopped.

I feel that some breeders start with the notion that they have room for x number of queens/studs and forget completely the complications that can occur with hangers on.
I feel some also start with extremely limited spaces and end up in a mess, whereas thinking it through, *before* buying queens and breeding kittens, may save a lot of heart-ache.


----------



## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> My feeling is that cat breeders should always have extra spaces for emergencies as being "full" or maximised is not a place any ethical breeder should be in.
> There are always the possibility of kittens who need returned and are almost impossible to re-home, the possibility that kittens will not sell for months (which in a recession is a very real possibility), that older girls or studs will not find good homes easily, there are also the diseased/deformed/disabled kittens that no-one wants as well. There is also the kitten(s) that you want to keep, whether that is for emotional reasons, or just because it/they is/are an amazing example of the breed. Even breeding queens/studs that become ill and need looking after, will you just re-home ASAP, pts or would you want to try and look after them yourself?
> Life is never cut and dried and to start breeding with no space for eventualities is madness and it inevitably leads to hoarding and overcrowded spaces, unless it is quickly recognised and the breeding is stopped.
> 
> ...


This I agree with. I've said that I can accommodate a maximum of 5 girls (at 5, 4 will still be breeding at one time, lessening over a few years if that makes sense). But I could happily accommodate a few more should any problems arise.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

cutekiaro1 said:


> So if cat breeders (in general) dont have the space to keep retired queens, what do you do if owners need to rehome their kittend. Do you not take them back?


Good point


----------



## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> This I agree with. I've said that I can accommodate a maximum of 5 girls (at 5, 4 will still be breeding at one time, lessening over a few years if that makes sense). But I could happily accommodate a few more should any problems arise.


That is good.

Anyone as a pet owner, can be "maximised" as there is no reason for anyone to buy or rescue more animals, past their limit. 
As a breeder, maximisation is completely different as the numbers can escalate rapidly and with rescues full it may be very difficult to offload excess cats/kittens.


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

cutekiaro1 said:


> So if cat breeders (in general) dont have the space to keep retired queens, what do you do if owners need to rehome their kittend. Do you not take them back?


Anyone? .................................


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i would have thought much like responsible dog breeders good cat breeders would always be able to accomodate any kittens they have bred at any point in their lifetimes...so this would mean not over breeding and not getting over run with breeding animals so theres always space should any need to come back...but i dunno:confused1: because ive been shocked by some of the 'acceptable' breeding practices ive read on this section lately.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

cutekiaro1 said:


> Anyone? .................................


I cant answer ist never happened I took back the kitten that was 'too playful' and kept her until re-homed to a wonderful family, but then Im not over run or a big breeder, but then bigger breeders have outdoor space normally so maybe they put them out there?


----------



## 2flowers (Jan 24, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> This I agree with. I've said that I can accommodate a maximum of 5 girls (at 5, 4 will still be breeding at one time, lessening over a few years if that makes sense). But I could happily accommodate a few more should any problems arise.


Same here, Aurelia.

I choose to only have five cats' living in my home, but if a cat or kitten needed to come back to me for any unforseen reason, then so be it, I stand by any kitten that l breed and would be comitted to securing him or her a loving permanant home.


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> i would have thought much like responsible dog breeders good cat breeders would always be able to accomodate any kittens they have bred at any point in their lifetimes...so this would mean not over breeding and not getting over run with breeding animals so theres always space should any need to come back...but i dunno:confused1: because ive been shocked by some of the 'acceptable' breeding practices ive read on this section lately.


Same so I normally dont get involved


----------



## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> i would have thought much like responsible dog breeders good cat breeders would always be able to accomodate any kittens they have bred at any point in their lifetimes...so this would mean not over breeding and not getting over run with breeding animals so theres always space should any need to come back...but i dunno:confused1: *because ive been shocked by some of the 'acceptable' breeding practices ive read on this section lately*.


you can say that again!!



cutekiaro1 said:


> Same so I normally dont get involved


me neither, I always steer well clear of posts that question bad breeding ethics  (kinda like the way I steer clear of chocolate & junk food )


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

cutekiaro1 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Same so I normally dont get involved


really glad to hear im not the only one



Tje said:


> you can say that again!!


" because ive been shocked by some of the 'acceptable' breeding practices ive read on this section lately" ......Mwa's!!!


----------



## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

Tje said:


> me neither, I always steer well clear of posts that question bad breeding ethics  (kinda like the way I steer clear of chocolate & junk food )


Oh yeah, you're the one with splinters in your bum from sitting on the fence all of the time


----------



## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Dougal, yep, thats me. Sat so long on my fence I have creosote on my bum 

Nouska, you nutter !! lol.


----------



## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I couldn't do this, as when do you stop breeding? I am not meaning to cause an upset just my honest opinion. When i breed Tilly (papillon) after we have had a litter she will be spayed and then kept as far as i see it the day I bought her was the day she will always be my responsibility. Same as her pups I will take any back at any time


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Some Breeders keep their girls once they've been neutered. Some won't get on in a house with entires and I know some Breeders let them go to a new home with one of their kittens. I think this is a fab idea.

Yes, it would be hard to let a cat go whom you've known and had in your house a long time but if you think they'd be best off in a pet home then I think you need to do what's right for the cat. At least if she goes off to a home with one of her kittens then they have each other when going into a new environment and can settle into a new home with a new family together.

I have alot of cats who wouldn't tolerate an adult coming in now but if I didn't i'd love to be able to offer a home to retired breeding cats. Something in the furture maybe I could do.


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Looks like I killed this thread :lol:


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Biawhiska said:


> Looks like I killed this thread :lol:


No 

I think it's just all been said


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Ok, good..


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I wouldn't throw away a queen because I had no more use for her. That's how it seems to me oh well I can't have anymore litters out of you I'll just get rid and buy a new queen. That seems wrong to me. I wouldn't rehome unless the animal was genuinely unhappy or stressed in my home. And like others said what do you do if you can't find homes for the kittens or have to take some back? Chuck out other cats too


----------



## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Biawhiska said:


> Looks like I killed this thread :lol:


damn you woman... that's my job


----------



## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I think it is just the "norm" in breeding cats.
Cat breeders tend not to hold on to ex-breeding animals.
I think also that many of the downsides of entire cats, ie the smell and noise doesn't really make them a good pet to the breeder, so once the breeding is stopped then there is little point or loyalty involved to feel that they need to hold onto them. Unlike a dog which can be part of the family, breeding cats tend to live outdoors in pens so the "part of the family" attitude is not the reality for some breeders. I think many breeders feel that a breeding cat is not their pet, the pet part of the cat's life is *after* they have finished producing kittens and have gone to live with someone else as their pet.
Of course some breeders do keep their ex breeding cats and they are "part of the family", but it is not thought badly of in cat breeding circles, if a breeder gets rid of her cats when they are no longer suitable for breeding. As I said it appears to be the "norm".


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

That attitude to me is horrible. Regardless of whether you are breeding an animal or not it should be your pet not just an animal living there that you're using for you benefit


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Tje said:


> damn you woman... that's my job


:lol: :001_cool:


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> I think it is just the "norm" in breeding cats.
> Cat breeders tend not to hold on to ex-breeding animals.
> I think also that many of the downsides of entire cats, ie the smell and noise doesn't really make them a good pet to the breeder, so once the breeding is stopped then there is little point or loyalty involved to feel that they need to hold onto them. Unlike a dog which can be part of the family, breeding cats tend to live outdoors in pens so the "part of the family" attitude is not the reality for some breeders. I think many breeders feel that a breeding cat is not their pet, the pet part of the cat's life is *after* they have finished producing kittens and have gone to live with someone else as their pet.
> Of course some breeders do keep their ex breeding cats and they are "part of the family", but it is not thought badly of in cat breeding circles, if a breeder gets rid of her cats when they are no longer suitable for breeding. As I said it appears to be the "norm".


so they are using the animal for their own gain and when no longer needed get rid 

I have to say I would never buy a kitten/cat from a breeder who does this, I think if you are going to breed any animal you should be prepared to give them a good family home once they have finished producing but this attitude seems to be 'out with the old and in with the new'

I cant see the cats having a very happy life if they are kept outside and not as part of the family.

I used to have cats and they were a part of the family, they were fantastic family pets and are very sociable, so why shouldnt they be kept as part of the family.

If this was to happen in the dog world (which it sometimes does) these people are frowned upon and most are classed as BYB and IMO rightly so.
An animal is a pet and should be treated as such, not a breeding machine that is passed on once it is past its sell by date


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

ive had to re-home cats, actually not down to breeding as they were never bred (long story) but my cats now im keeping they are me babies 
may have to rehome one to a asingle cat household, but im desperatly trying now to, but if shes unhappy with more cats i cant be selfish and keep her.


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> ive had to re-home cats, actually not down to breeding as they were never bred (long story) but my cats now im keeping they are me babies
> may have to rehome one to a asingle cat household, but im desperatly trying now to, but if shes unhappy with more cats i cant be selfish and keep her.


you are doing it for the welfare of your cats though and to ensure they are happy. As you said they were never bred so are not being rehomed to make room for more breeding queens.

Do you keep your breeding cats inside?


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> ive had to re-home cats, actually not down to breeding as they were never bred (long story) but my cats now im keeping they are me babies
> may have to rehome one to a asingle cat household, but im desperatly trying now to, but if shes unhappy with more cats i cant be selfish and keep her.


That is different if the animal is genuinely unhappy or stressed out in your home then it's better to rehome it. You're not just chucking them away after you have no more use for them


----------



## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

cutekiaro1 said:


> so they are using the animal for their own gain and when no longer needed get rid
> 
> I have to say I would never buy a kitten/cat from a breeder who does this, I think if you are going to breed any animal you should be prepared to give them a good family home once they have finished producing but this attitude seems to be 'out with the old and in with the new'
> 
> ...


The point I am making is that an entire cat sometimes is not an animal that you can keep as part of the family, some you can but others will spray, will poo anywhere and will be so smelly that there is no way that they could be in any family home, that is the reality of breeding cats. House training will not help, it is hormonal and why so many end up in pens in the garden. 
Ex-breeding cats can be a bit difficult with other cats, so it is a good excuse really that they *need* rehomed and no surprise that they get replaced with more breeding cats either.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

cutekiaro1 said:


> you are doing it for the welfare of your cats though and to ensure they are happy. As you said they were never bred so are not being rehomed to make room for more breeding queens.
> 
> Do you keep your breeding cats inside?


lol have you read my posts/website! yes all cats indoors i only have a couple of queens that are pets to  im not A big breeder and never would be if i cant keep them indoors 24/7 with me. i would never put a cat outside i dont see the point, (why have a cat?) and i have room inside, their my kids they have better lives than some people!!  



Nicky10 said:


> That is different if the animal is genuinely unhappy or stressed out in your home then it's better to rehome it. You're not just chucking them away after you have no more use for them


my main quuen, who is the foundation of my girls, will prob be spayed next year, she will live here with her daughters and ruling with a iron paw and helping with the granbabies lol


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> lol have you read my posts/website! yes all cats indoors i only have a couple of queens that are pets to  im not A big breeder and never would be if i cant keep them indoors 24/7 with me. i would never put a cat outside i dont see the point, (why have a cat?) and i have room inside, their my kids they have better lives than some people!!


I have yes but couldnt remember if it was you or not 

I thought you kept them in which is why if I wanted a cat/kitten after reading all your posts etc...... you and Raggs are the ones I would want a cat from....... if I passed your checks of course.....

Watch this space... im working on OH :lol:


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> The point I am making is that an entire cat sometimes is not an animal that you can keep as part of the family, some you can but others will spray, will poo anywhere and will be so smelly that there is no way that they could be in any family home, that is the reality of breeding cats. House training will not help, it is hormonal and why so many end up in pens in the garden.
> Ex-breeding cats can be a bit difficult with other cats, so it is a good excuse really that they *need* rehomed and no surprise that they get replaced with more breeding cats either.


So this is the breeders problem why then pass them off onto the public who could also have the same issues with said cat and put in a rehoming centre because the cat was spraying/being aggressive etc 

So what would a breeder do with such a cat..... PTS after they have used it for breeding and its no longer required?


----------



## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> The point I am making is that an entire cat sometimes is not an animal that you can keep as part of the family, some you can but others will spray, will poo anywhere and will be so smelly that there is no way that they could be in any family home, that is the reality of breeding cats.


My cat Winter was neutered at nearly 1 and a half because of a allergy to medications used in "nuetering" anyway, at around 6 months he started peeing on bags (shopping bags) then on clothes, washing baskets and then the other animals beds...at the time we had a pom and he had taken to peeing on the pom's bed.

Then came the full blown spaying, my cats are completely indoor and it STUNK no matter what I did to clean it the smell remained infact I still have a hoody that smells like winter's spay...even now.

He has always been loving, always...never agressive.

Not nice....

Once he was fixed he stopped....

However if I couldnt get him nuetered because of his allergy I wouldnt rehome him. I love him, hes more to me than just a cat.

I should hope thats how most breeders see thier stud and queens as pets first and formost...then breeding animals.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

cutekiaro1 said:


> I have yes but couldnt remember if it was you or not
> 
> I thought you kept them in which is why if I wanted a cat/kitten after reading all your posts etc...... you and Raggs are the ones I would want a cat from....... if I passed your checks of course.....
> 
> Watch this space... im working on OH :lol:


awww lol  well have a nice litter planned to be born in ...march/april/may time!  haha 

have deleteed my waiting list by accident  had about 6 people wanting to be contacted know idea how to contact them now, just have to hope they see my website!


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> awww lol  well have a nice litter planned to be born in ...march/april/may time!  haha
> 
> have deleteed my waiting list by accident  had about 6 people wanting to be contacted know idea how to contact them now, just have to hope they see my website!


ohhhh dont tell me that lol OH will have no ears left by the time im finished with him :lol:

Thats a shame about the waiting list... hopefully when they realise you havent contacted them in a while they will call back.... fingers crossed


----------



## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

cutekiaro1 said:


> So this is the breeders problem why then pass them off onto the public who could also have the same issues with said can and put in a rehoming centre because the cat was spraying/being aggressive etc


When a cat is entire ie not neutered then it does tend to spray, it can get territorial. 
However once neutered then it often just acts like any other pet cat would.

I am just explaining not condoning, but as I say it is the norm and if you want a pedigree cat then that is what happens. 
Anyone who is breeding for any length of time, either rehomes their old queens/studs or gets overrun eventually, that is the reality. We may want to pretty it up with thinking of one litter of lovely kittens, but that is not a breeder that is just someone with a cat and kittens. Breeders have multiple litters with many queens, if you look on pedigree cat breeders websites you will see "our queens for 2011", "our new stud","up and coming queens", so what happens to the existing stud/the older queens? They are either up on the rehoming page or disappear to be replaced fairly quickly by the new stock. If you follow any breeder's website, for any length of time you will notice the cats changing.
This is not BYBs, this is just cat breeding, by registered genuine cat breeders, this is how it works.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

cutekiaro1 said:


> ohhhh dont tell me that lol OH will have no ears left by the time im finished with him :lol:
> 
> Thats a shame about the waiting list... hopefully when they realise you havent contacted them in a while they will call back.... fingers crossed


hopefully!! *paws crossed!*


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> When a cat is entire ie not neutered then it does tend to spray, it can get territorial.
> However once neutered then it often just acts like any other pet cat would.
> 
> I am just explaining not condoning, but as I say it is the norm and if you want a pedigree cat then that is what happens.
> ...


Oh I know your just explaining but for me this is unacceptable to do with any animal and I would research to the best of my ability to steer well clear of breeders who do this.

If they can be neutered and act like a normal cat then thats good but I still think the breeder should house that cat as it is their responsibility.

The way I see it.... If you buy an animal it should be with the intention of keeping it for the entirety of that animals life. I know things change and people have to rehome etc but this is not what happens with cat breeders. They buy a cat with the intention of breeding it until it is no longer wanted then palm it off when it is past breeding material.

Cat breeders the same as dog breeders could make room for ex beeding animals, if they dont have the space to keep them in their twilight years they shouldnt be breeding IMO.

But again it is JMO


----------



## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> hopefully!! *paws crossed!*


opppps sorry and paws :lol:


----------



## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

cutekiaro1 said:


> Oh I know your just explaining but for me this is unacceptable to do with any animal and I would research to the best of my ability to steer well clear of breeders who do this.


I absolutely agree with you on vetting breeders. There are some TERRIBLE cat breeders around, I mean REALLLLLLLY terrible. Cats stored away in garden sheds year in and year out with little or no human contact. We recently had a breeder who let the mother cat have her kittens indoors then put mother and kittens outside at 3 or 4 weeks old. All the kittens died, but even if they hadn't, this is a terrible thing to do as kittens MUST have socialization in their early weeks. I can't stand these types of breeding practices, so I totally agree with you on the need for buyers to vet breeders, just as much as I support breeders vetting buyers. I would much rather have no cat than a cat from a dodgy breeder.

I don't completely agree (nor completely disagree) with Lauren though on the norms of breeding cats being kept outdoors as non-pets. I know plenty of breeders whose intact female cats live in the lap of luxury in the home, and a few breeders with good stud quarters where the boys get plenty of attention and affection. Sadly though, too often studs aren't kept that well. OK their basic needs for warmth, food and light may be taken care of... but they sadly lack enormously as they get little or no socialisation or affection.

I guess what you consider "the norm" will depend hugely on the breeding circles you move in... the breeders I know, the norm is for indoor pampered queens. The studs, well to be honest, although I am not crazy about their lifestyle, I would be hard pushed to improve on it.


----------



## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

The norm with the breeders I know is to keep retired queens but these ladies have close to 10 cats or more each. Not sure how any one copes with that many cats in the same house, to be honest.

My limit will be 5 cats whether they are spayed or not. I currently have 2 neuters & 1 queen. It would break my heart to home any of them & it would also break the heart of my friends, their breeders, to do that to their kittens too. I have thought about the re-homing issue a fair bit recently (was always off the cards before) as one neuter isn't as happy as I hoped he would be with the other cats (he's a complete loner & not keen on cat company). It's a contentious issue & there is no right answer if we are looking at it as being for the "good of the breed" as sometimes there are ruthless decisions to be made!

Those with studs, I would think, are much more likely to be doing this which is why at this moment in time I am of the opinion I could never own a stud but _someone _has to have a stud & sometimes it is fairer to retire him in a new home.


----------



## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

I wouldn't have my 2 perfect kitties if their breeder hadn't let them go as adult neuters.

I got mine at 15months of age, the breeder was looking to rehome the girl as she had lost a litter and she didn't want to try again, then asked if I would take her brother too as he wasn't taking to stud life well.

Before me the breeder had rehomed one adult neuter, and that went so well so she made the decision to try to find a home for my girl. Their rehome has gone so well with me she'd be more inclined to do it again in the future should she need to.

She's breeding to enhance and better the breed, already has some neuters herself, so she has to rehome if she wants to continue breeding as she just doesn't have the room. My cats definitely came first in her decision as she could have continued trying to breed from them (not together obvo!!) but they weren't happy.

For me, it's been fantastic. Buying a kitten wasn't an option for me, and if I hadn't rehomed these I would have got a rescue cat or kitten. They've settled in so well, and are just fantastic. It did break the breeders heart, she sobbed her eyes out when I collected them. But its suited her, me and the cats all round.

But it's personal, depends on the breeder, cats, and person rehoming the cats. I don't think either situation is wrong


----------

