# Goldfish help please...



## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Since my pond Goldfish went into a breeding frenzy a couple of weeks ago 
some of the fish have developed ulcer/sores on their sides

I was thinking that it was where they were frantically going in and out of the
plants and damaging their sides but it seems to be getting worse.

The large and the small are affected. 

Its a large matured pond with filtration, bottom skimmer and airstone

It has 3 Koi in it that aren,t affected.

I know there is a diesease that only affects goldfish and causes ulcers but 
cant for the life of me remember what it is.

Do you think it is damage from the breeding time (luckily got the eggs and they are thriving in a tank with the same water as the adults and showing nothing) and that they will heal? Or this disease that I cannot remember the name of?

If it is this what is the best thing to treat them with? also taking into consideration the koi in there too.

Does anyone have any ideas please. i would really appreciate any feedback 

Can get pic if needed.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2010)

There are two distinct possibilities, especially when you consider that only the goldfish are infected. Possible causes include Goldfish Herpes Virus (GHV) or Cyprinid Herpes Virus 2 (CyHV-2) and Goldfish Ulcer Disease (_Aeromonas salmonicida_), also known as Carp Erythrodermatitis.

Both diseases tend to manifest themselves during the summer when water temperatures are higher. Fish infected with GHV tend to recover by themselves, however they are still carriers for the disease and will pass it down the genetic line. Wounds produced by GUD resemble open blisters surrounded by a white ring.

To help pinpoint the exact cause, could you get a photo of the affected fish? It would be better to remove the fish and carefully place the fish on a damp cloth that hasn't been exposed to any chemicals such as cleaning products.

Have you also tested the water?


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Chillinator said:


> There are two distinct possibilities, especially when you consider that only the goldfish are infected. Possible causes include Goldfish Herpes Virus (GHV) or Cyprinid Herpes Virus 2 (CyHV-2) and Goldfish Ulcer Disease (_Aeromonas salmonicida_), also known as Carp Erythrodermatitis.
> 
> Both diseases tend to manifest themselves during the summer when water temperatures are higher. Fish infected with GHV tend to recover by themselves, however they are still carriers for the disease and will pass it down the genetic line. Wounds produced by GUD resemble open blisters surrounded by a white ring.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your quick answer Hun..

Ok water parameters are fine.....Added another large ball air stone.

Lost the first fish this morning. Just going to take a photo so bear with me

I do have Bacterad Anti-ulcer, finrot & Flukes treatment made by NTlabs???? but not sure whether to add it and obviously turn the filter off.

Be back in min with photo

xx


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Ok here goes....

Just remembered son-in law borrowed large net at weekend so cant get photo of the large ones but here is a couple of the dead.

hope they are clear enough...if not I'll try again (must be a button for close ups on this camera somewhere)

The marks on the orange ones are much deeper in colour obviously because of their colouring. They only have them on their sides or at the end of spine before the tail starts. And their tails and fins are all perfectly clear. Nothing around faces or mouths.....just their sides.

Hope I'm explaining this right????

Just one other thing......frogs have taken up residence too...Keep getting stuck in skimmer!!!!

Can't think of what other detail to give. I'm thinking that now the first has died it may be the start of losing them 

EDIT: your description of the ring sounds about right


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2010)

Going by the photo and the extensive damage to the dermal layer, I would pinpoint the cause on external damage which has become infected with _Aeromonas hydrophila_ and flukes in outer white ring. Physical damage due to spawning is the most likely cause of the wound. It appears that the wound has turned septic.

_Aeromonas_ are a soil bacteria which are present in all ponds and aquariums in minute background populations. When a fish is stressed (in this case due to damage), they infect a weakened host.

The chances of the other fish recovering are slim if they are in the same condition, however you could try acriflavin (you can get this from NT Labs stockists). Despite this, the chances of recovery are only around 25-35% when you take the damage into consideration.


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Chillinator said:


> Going by the photo and the extensive damage to the dermal layer, I would pinpoint the cause on external damage which has become infected with _Aeromonas hydrophila_ and flukes in outer white ring. Physical damage due to spawning is the most likely cause of the wound. It appears that the wound has turned septic.
> 
> _Aeromonas_ are a soil bacteria which are present in all ponds and aquariums in minute background populations. When a fish is stressed (in this case due to damage), they infect a weakened host.
> 
> The chance of the other fish recovering are slim if they are in the same condition, however you could try acriflavin (you can get this from NT Labs stockists). Despite this, the chances of recovery are only around 25-35% when you take the damage into consideration.


mmmmm......not good news

I really did think this was the result of the breeding as there are many tall reed/iris type plants in there and the leaves are really tough. During the frenzy they were frantically swimming through them or should I say being chased through them.

I will definatly get some acriflavin and give it a go and keep fingers crossed. Some of them look worse than the one in the photo but as I said maybe thats due to their colouring but some are definatly as bad 

I can't thank you enough for your advice and a big Rep coming your way.

xx

Edit....are these type of plants unsuitable for ponds? Although they have been in there for a few years now.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2010)

deb53 said:


> mmmmm......not good news
> 
> I really did think this was the result of the breeding as there are many tall reed/iris type plants in there and the leaves are really tough. During the frenzy they were frantically swimming through them or should I say being chased through them.
> 
> ...


Just glad to help! :thumbsup:

Marginal species such as Iris, Acorus, Calthas and Lobelias are perfect for ponds. Are there any sharp underwater objects (including planting baskets) in the pond or near the marginal shelf?


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Chillinator said:


> Just glad to help! :thumbsup:
> 
> Marginal species such as Iris, Acorus, Calthas and Lobelias are perfect for ponds. Are there any sharp underwater objects (including planting baskets) in the pond or near the marginal shelf?


Nope no baskets at all......

Just airline pipes

Hose leading down to the bottom skimmer

Pump and hose.

Barley

They were all healthy until the mating and seemed ok after...it just seems to have kicked off 3 weeks after.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2010)

It could be the plants then, however don't be too hasty to remove them. You could try placing some plastic mesh in front of the plants and securing it to the stems with zip ties. Then, you could plant some fast-growing oxygenating plants (_Egeria densa_ for example) to give the goldfish something to spawn in.


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Chillinator said:


> It could be the plants then, however don't be too hasty to remove them. You could try placing some plastic mesh in front of the plants and securing it to the stems with zip ties. Then, you could plant some fast-growing oxygenating plants (_Egeria densa_ for example) to give the goldfish something to spawn in.


Yes real good idea. Must admit I'm pretty gutted about them and being realistic don,t hold out much hope for them.

Do they spawn once a year? This is the first time these have and many have hatched and seem to be doing fine.

Have them in tank with about 6" water, a real soft filter, air stone. Bare bottom at present.

bottom is getting a bit mucky now but obviously hard to clean. Would a pleco be ok in with them. I have one I could move.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2010)

deb53 said:


> Yes real good idea. Must admit I'm pretty gutted about them and being realistic don,t hold out much hope for them.
> 
> Do they spawn once a year? This is the first time these have and many have hatched and seem to be doing fine.
> 
> ...


Goldfish can breed continuously as long as they are in season, sometimes laying upto hundreds of eggs.

I wouldn't really suggest adding a Plec, as a few can grow quite large and adding more fish will only result in more waste. Daily water changes are the key to good growth and sufficient water quality.


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Still not good 

Treated the pond with acriflavin but lost another one this morning

probably coincedence but another light one  Maybe they aren't so hardy????

The fry in the tank (same water as pond) continue to thrive but so many adults have these ulcers now 

Still the Koi are fine.....its really weird.

They are all eating fine but thats 2 in a week. Thinking maybe to take plants out so as not to damage them even more, but thats a massive job and I dont even know if I can lift them....O and just thought ....that would leave massive hole in net too.

O the joys of ponds


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2010)

To be honest, with more of the fish dropping off, it might be best to euthanize the rest of the goldfish, drain the pond and start again from scratch. You won't have to re-cycle the filter, as the whole procedure shouldn't take more than a day. 

Once the fry are big enough, you could start to re-stock the pond next spring.


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Chillinator said:


> To be honest, with more of the fish dropping off, it might be best to euthanize the rest of the goldfish, drain the pond and start again from scratch. You won't have to re-cycle the filter, as the whole procedure shouldn't take more than a day.
> 
> Once the fry are big enough, you could start to re-stock the pond next spring.


 Your the second person to say that today  

Really hating this. Yes have stock for next year. Weird there are a few of last years youngsters in there from someone, they are still small and not Golden yet but they are not affected.....suppose thats due to non-breeding.

O dear....natures a real bummer sometimes 

EDIT.... just a thought. Would this thing be living in the filter pads etc. If I was too do this and obviously not re=cycle as same day would this put it back into pond???


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2010)

What you could do is borrow or invest in a UV sterilizer, a model intended for aquarium use. These are far more powerful than UV clarifiers intended for ponds, and will zap any pathogens that come into contact with the UV rays. Running the filter from a container of fresh, dechlorinated water will keep the filter running and it should flush out the culprits.

I would also sterilize the filter itself (without the media) and the pump in boiling water for a few minutes, repeat the procedure a few times and rinse off with cold water.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2010)

Aaah, and one more thing, just heard about your back problem. Don't touch anything with the pond until you're fully recovered. :thumbup:


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