# Advice on stud cat keeping



## ANGELICFERRETS

I recently purchased an 11mth old Persian male brought on active reg to have as a stud cat to my Persian queen. A beautiful healthy cat with an amazing temperament and excellent type.
I have a cattery outside which I put him into temporarily to settle in. I brought him indoors the next day as he was crying a lot outside. He was fine once indoors wanted lots of fuss and cuddles but my queens weren't happy usually they are quite excepting of other cats.
I left him in over night but came down to the dreaded smell of spraying in the morning, I believe it was him as my girls have never done this and the previous owner told me he had done it in her house once. He has been used to being an indoor pet but was brought for breeding purposes.
My question/problem is that I have put him back outside as I dont want my house stinking but he cries and i feel bad, i let him in when im there to keep an eye on him. Will it be ok if I do this? Also obviously I brought him to be a stud but he's very wary of my girls when they hiss and even watched him with one of my girls that was in season and although interested as soon as she meowed at him he backed off after a few attempts he lost interest. Will he gain confidence over time?
I've only ever had 1 other entire male who lived in my house with me and my girls and never sprayed, he did the job fine. they did however all grow up with each other.
Should i have got a kitten?


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## becbec31

This is a very tough one im afraid. My entire male has a neutered house mate he lives with outside. If he is in his pen alone he cries and cries. However he also does this when he can hear or smell my calling girls.

I can bring him in for short times to be fussed and although he doesn't spray he does wee where he shouldn't .

Not all stud cats however would be accepting of another cat to live with. what was his situation where you got him from?

My stud cat was terrified of my girls to start with but soon gained in confidence with time. Was your girl absolutely ready to be mated? As mine hiss at the start of their call before they are ready to accept him and this does put him off a bit.

I breed BSH so not sure of Persians, perhaps a Persian breeder will be along shortly to offer some more specific advice.


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## juliedawn

My stud cat lives in doors with us... we have had him from a kitten though.

He sprayed twice.. but this was only when my 2 girls were is season.
I would never put him outside in a pen as he has been brought up indoors and I know he would hate it.
But at the end of the day I guess its whatever the cat is use too.


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## Milly22

Mine was a bit older when I bought him, he had been outside since he was 3 months old. I brought him home and he was terrified of everything, I used to lock the girls away and let him wander through from his room, I also used to go and sit with him in his room, then he came to the kitchen, so I used to spend a lot of time sitting in the kitchen with him, then he finally made the big jump through to the livingroom, this took at least 2 months, he is now a cuddle monster and the most affectionate boy I have known.

Then I introduced him back outside but only for a few hours at a time to begin with and gave him cuddles and treats when he came back in. 

Now he sleeps indoors at night, rushes to the back door 1st thing every morning, comes in for cuddles in the afternoon and back out until 8/9pm then in for the evening. I have a neutered girl in with him. He squeals when she isn't out with him.

You also need to spend a lot of time with him/playing with him giving him attention, cuddles, I sometimes take my boy for an afternoon nap if the children are away: D.

Sometimes males just don't take to females also, you know they just don't like them as much as other, well I know this is common with Ragdolls anyway.


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## sootisox

What they said!!! ^^^^^^^. :thumbup:

We've had our studs since kittenhood. They started going out for an hour at a time right from the start, gradually increasing the amount of time they spend outside. Valy was outside full time by the time he was 8 months old ... Which is around the time he started to spray. I have my cattery set up so that the girls run is connected to Valys run by a mesh door, meaning he has constant contact with the girls during the day. This set up suits us very well and Valy is happy. I'm happy to open the connecting door so that he can spend time with his wives - when they're not calling that is! (Calling girls remain indoors if I'm not planning a litter). He comes indoors for cuddles and "sofa time" with his stud pants on (a god send!). I love him to bits. He's a "working boy", he WILL spray, it's instinct. It's really trial and error as to what will work for you.

I suggest gradually increasing his outdoor time with a neutered companion if he'd accept one and use stud pants when he's indoors. I agree that your girl was being "hissy" as she just wasn't ready to be mated .... He was also in "her" space. You'll maybe find it a bit more harmonious if you introduced your girl to him on his turf (ie stud pen) in a day or two when she should be more willing. You do occassionally come across females that just don't fancy the male, and visa versa.

Don't give up on him! All cats need time to transition and settle in, it's a big change for him and your girls. Good luck and let us know how you get on!


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## lizward

My boy still comes in virtually every night. He does spray but I simply live with it. At 21 months he is still not proven. I have another nearly a year old who has shown no interest in girls yet (and doesn't spray). It's not uncommon.

Liz


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## ANGELICFERRETS

Thanx everyone for your replys. he did seem better, and when i brought him in last night he just wanted to go back out again wish i did what he wanted as he sprayed again so he will stay out there now and i'll just have to give him plenty of fuss in there, shame but i cant live with that smell in my house. My usual breed is british too and I haven't found other persian breeders want to be very helpful unfortunately unlike people who breed the british:thumbup:.
He was an only pet brought to be a stud but the lady got him first. Her husband was quite ill and the doctors said the cat was making him worse so think he got chucked outside in her garden she was lucky he didnt try to get out. He was smelly and abit matted when in got him although most of his coat had already been shaved. I looked up the original breeder though and he's from good lines, pkd tested parents and being a vet nurse I checked him thoroughly health wise but took him straight to my work to have him chipped and have thorough check, my vet said he was nice too and very good tempered.


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## Milly22

That's good. He's possibly just a bit wary of people just now.

I never thought I would but I am going to buy mine some stud pants. 

I was shopping the other day and moved away from the man in front of me as he smelt like pee. I moved to another till and the smell followed me  

I realised it me who was stinking of cat pee. Ice had sprayed in my handbag! 

Now I get what people mean when they talk about old, mad cat ladies, stinking of cat piss living by the sea. 

Although, I am not that old yet.


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## ANGELICFERRETS

Oh no nothing worse. We used 2 have a client at work that smelt so bad you were almost sick not good 2 serve when your suffering from morning sickness. He's fine with people loves fuss and wants 2 be in your arms. It's just the other cats but think its my bsh queen, she's getting close 2 kittening so she was being nasty which is understandable with him being an entire male he'll be fine I'm sure its been a big jump from being the only pet 2 coming 2 mine which must seem like hundreds.


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## sootisox

I'm sure he'll be fine! Valy actually prefers being in his house. It's HIS space with no competition from the other cats (I have 2 male neuters living in my house - along with the girlies). He gets all the 1-1 attention he could possibly want and the company of his wives through the mesh door to the girls run. 

I found that sticking to a routine with Valys care works wonders ... He now knows even if I'm 10 minutes late with his food/tray/cuddles etc etc and he's waiting. On the whole, my decision to have my own stud is one of the best things I've done.


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## lizward

I sell violins for a living - by post - and recently we decided that mailing sacks would be easier to use than brown paper. So we bought a large box of these and put them in the bath (common dumping ground in our house for all sorts of things). It wasn't a good move. Let's just say that every time I want to post something now, I have to wash and dry the mailing sack first 

Still, I have good news. Nigel (my beautiful Tiffanie boy who has so far shown no interest in girls) came into the house a couple of days ago - and sprayed! Never thought I'd be so happy to see a cat do that :lol: His, um, equipment seems to have increased in size substantially too. My baby is growing up 

Liz


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## Milly22

lizward said:


> I sell violins for a living - by post - and recently we decided that mailing sacks would be easier to use than brown paper. So we bought a large box of these and put them in the bath (common dumping ground in our house for all sorts of things). It wasn't a good move. Let's just say that every time I want to post something now, I have to wash and dry the mailing sack first
> 
> Still, I have good news. Nigel (my beautiful Tiffanie boy who has so far shown no interest in girls) came into the house a couple of days ago - and sprayed! Never thought I'd be so happy to see a cat do that :lol: His, um, equipment seems to have increased in size substantially too. My baby is growing up
> 
> Liz


Yay! Clever boy. 

Ice likes his routine too, as soon as I wake up he goes out, comes back in for a wee sleep, then back out till nighttime. He would most likely stay out there fine but I need to get an alarm which a cat cannot set off but a human canm and barbed wire and things. The kids around here are not nice!


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## Izzie999

Milly22 said:


> That's good. He's possibly just a bit wary of people just now.
> 
> I never thought I would but I am going to buy mine some stud pants.
> 
> I was shopping the other day and moved away from the man in front of me as he smelt like pee. I moved to another till and the smell followed me
> 
> I realised it me who was stinking of cat pee. Ice had sprayed in my handbag!
> 
> Now I get what people mean when they talk about old, mad cat ladies, stinking of cat piss living by the sea.
> 
> Although, I am not that old yet.


lol i feel your pain, my boy peed on my shopping bag, mortified with embarrassement that it stunk of pee while I was out yesterday. Now all bags are kept in the cellar out of reach!

You have to love our hobby eh!

Izzie


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## OrientalSlave

Izzie999 said:


> lol i feel your pain, my boy peed on my shopping bag, mortified with embarrassement that it stunk of pee while I was out yesterday. Now all bags are kept in the cellar out of reach!
> 
> You have to love our hobby eh!
> 
> Izzie


The thread is from 2010...


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## Izzie999

OrientalSlave said:


> The thread is from 2010...


oops lol! not with it today


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## prada

ANGELICFERRETS said:


> My usual breed is british too and I haven't found other persian breeders want to be very helpful unfortunately unlike people who breed the british:thumbup:.
> 
> You've had a lot of good advice and I'm not sure I could add anything. I am though concerned that you have had a bad experience with Persian breeders being unhelpful. There really is no excuse for that; luckily we are not all the same and, with 16 years experience breeding Persians I am always willing to help if I possibly can, so don't give up on us. )


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## OrientalSlave

prada said:


> ANGELICFERRETS said:
> 
> 
> 
> My usual breed is british too and I haven't found other persian breeders want to be very helpful unfortunately unlike people who breed the british:thumbup:.
> 
> You've had a lot of good advice and I'm not sure I could add anything. I am though concerned that you have had a bad experience with Persian breeders being unhelpful. There really is no excuse for that; luckily we are not all the same and, with 16 years experience breeding Persians I am always willing to help if I possibly can, so don't give up on us. )
> 
> 
> 
> The thread was started in 2010. I imagine the OP has their answer(s) by now.
Click to expand...


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## prada

OrientalSlave said:


> prada said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thread was started in 2010. I imagine the OP has their answer(s) by now.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter when a thread is started. If the OP has their answers by now then perhaps it will help someone else.
Click to expand...


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## lizward

It was interesting for me to read my post about Nigel. He has now gone to Canada (nearly two years ago now) to be a stud cat for the early stages of the longhaired burmilla breeding programme there. I have a boy from the Czech Republic who is just like Nigel, except that he is terrified of girls too. Sigh. SO it was nice to be reminded that Nigel was a very slow developer!

I remember that business about cleaning the mailing sacks very well, hadn't realised it was four years ago!

Liz


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## MollyMilo

I know this thread is very old, but it's still very relevant.

How old is the earliest a stud cat can be used for breeding. Obviously I wouldn't breed from a 9 month old queen, but what about 9-10 month old male? Especially if he's showing keen interest in the ladies and is a good sized boy?


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## gskinner123

MollyMilo said:


> I know this thread is very old, but it's still very relevant.
> 
> How old is the earliest a stud cat can be used for breeding. Obviously I wouldn't breed from a 9 month old queen, but what about 9-10 month old male? Especially if he's showing keen interest in the ladies and is a good sized boy?


Given the opportunity, they can and often do 'work' at this age and even younger and, everything else being right in terms of timing/plans, I can see no reason not to allow them to do so. It will often turn the 'baby' into a keen-for-more hormonal hooligan but that must happen at some point


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## MollyMilo

gskinner123 said:


> Given the opportunity, they can and often do 'work' at this age and even younger and, everything else being right in terms of timing/plans, I can see no reason not to allow them to do so. It will often turn the 'baby' into a keen-for-more hormonal hooligan but that must happen at some point


Thank you  that is exactly what I wanted to know.


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## lymorelynn

MollyMilo said:


> I know this thread is very old, but it's still very relevant.
> 
> How old is the earliest a stud cat can be used for breeding. Obviously I wouldn't breed from a 9 month old queen, but what about 9-10 month old male? Especially if he's showing keen interest in the ladies and is a good sized boy?


He'd better be keeping himself for Gracie  :smilewinkgrin:


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## carly87

Interesting...


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## lymorelynn

carly87 said:


> Interesting...


Ha ha - let me explain. The breeder of MollyMilo's new boy, Rupert, is still interested in using him as a stud and has suggested that MM keeps him entire for a while, though I'm not sure of the exact way things would work between MM and the breeder.
Joking earlier I had asked if he could be Gracie's boyfriend - well, you never know. They both the same age - a week or two apart.


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## MollyMilo

lymorelynn said:


> Ha ha - let me explain. The breeder of MollyMilo's new boy, Rupert, is still interested in using him as a stud and has suggested that MM keeps him entire for a while, though I'm not sure of the exact way things would work between MM and the breeder.
> Joking earlier I had asked if he could be Gracie's boyfriend - well, you never know. They both the same age - a week or two apart.


Yes as Lynn said Rupert is very nice boy From great lines and also bred by a friend of mine who suggested we could keep Rupert ( 11 weeks) entire for a bit for her breeding program. All depends on how he gets on with my neuters! 
One spray and it's snip snip


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## MerlinsMum

MollyMilo said:


> One spray and it's snip snip


My first litter was sired by my Oriental boy bought as a show neuter, but his breeder agreed for one litter to my Siamese queen (he was on Active). Everything went really well, and in fact it was on Boxing Day they finally consummated their relationship, under the Christmas tree at my parents' house where I was staying for the duration.

But the day the kittens were born, he started spraying, and never really stopped even when neutered (a very prompt week later).


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## MollyMilo

MerlinsMum said:


> My first litter was sired by my Oriental boy bought as a show neuter, but his breeder agreed for one litter to my Siamese queen (he was on Active). Everything went really well, and in fact it was on Boxing Day they finally consummated their relationship, under the Christmas tree at my parents' house where I was staying for the duration.
> 
> But the day the kittens were born, he started spraying, and never really stopped even when neutered (a very prompt week later).


Yes mm this is something I need to consider. I'm not rushing into anything and might not even get past 6months.


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## MerlinsMum

MollyMilo said:


> Yes mm this is something I need to consider. I'm not rushing into anything and might not even get past 6months.


Imagine living with a neutered cat that *still* sprayed 15 years later.

It's once bitten, for me, I'm afraid. I've not had a male cat since, but if I did, he would be losing his nads before he had any idea what they're for.


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## MollyMilo

MerlinsMum said:


> Imagine living with a neutered cat that *still* sprayed 15 years later.
> 
> It's once bitten, for me, I'm afraid. I've not had a male cat since, but if I did, he would be losing his nads before he had any idea what they're for.


I can understand where you are coming from, but think of all the ex stud boys happy and content in their homes.


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## MerlinsMum

MollyMilo said:


> I can understand where you are coming from, but think of all the ex stud boys happy and content in their homes.


True! I probably had the one who would have ended up spraying no matter when he was done!


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## spotty cats

MollyMilo said:


> I know this thread is very old, but it's still very relevant.
> 
> How old is the earliest a stud cat can be used for breeding. Obviously I wouldn't breed from a 9 month old queen, but what about 9-10 month old male? Especially if he's showing keen interest in the ladies and is a good sized boy?


I have a friend who often retires her Ori boys at around 6 months of age, they contribute to her program then they get a lovely early retirement while still very young.

There's a number of Ocicat boy's who've mated as young as 4 months, sometimes to the surprise of their owners.

My stud boy doesn't spray, I do have an EN boy who when the girls are calling will spray in the bath tub though  Least it's easy to clean, not all over the house and not very often because of how the girls are managed.


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## MollyMilo

MerlinsMum said:


> True! I probably had the one who would have ended up spraying no matter when he was done!


You were unfortunate and I would probably be too 

One of my past siamese girls sprayed when she was stressed


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## MollyMilo

spotty cats said:


> I have a friend who often retires her Ori boys at around 6 months of age, they contribute to her program then they get a lovely early retirement while still very young.
> 
> There's a number of Ocicat boy's who've mated as young as 4 months, sometimes to the surprise of their owners.
> 
> My stud boy doesn't spray, I do have an EN boy who when the girls are calling will spray in the bath tub though  Least it's easy to clean, not all over the house and not very often because of how the girls are managed.


It would be lovely for my boy if he got done what he had to do by 6 months and then go on to be happy neuter like my other two.

Rupert's half brother is still with the breeder who is waiting for him to get his act together. He's 16 months!! He'd rather play with the kittens


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## carly87

MM, what is his dad like? Does he spray? And what about the granddad? It's not always true, but lines tend to be a reasonable indicator of whether they'll spray or not. For example, Tango doesn't spray at all, not even when girls are in call and I prevent them from getting at each other. His dad lives indoors and is exactly the same, as is his granddad. None of his maternal side spray either (as you know, girls sometimes can). I wouldn't worry too much about neutering him if he starts. If you give Tardak at the same time as the neuter, it's really good at taking away the urge to spray, and if you wanted to keep him entire to let him mature and then just have one litter without the spraying, you could use Supreleron, a chip which is basically a chemical neutering.


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## MollyMilo

carly87 said:


> MM, what is his dad like? Does he spray? And what about the granddad? It's not always true, but lines tend to be a reasonable indicator of whether they'll spray or not. For example, Tango doesn't spray at all, not even when girls are in call and I prevent them from getting at each other. His dad lives indoors and is exactly the same, as is his granddad. None of his maternal side spray either (as you know, girls sometimes can). I wouldn't worry too much about neutering him if he starts. If you give Tardak at the same time as the neuter, it's really good at taking away the urge to spray, and if you wanted to keep him entire to let him mature and then just have one litter without the spraying, you could use Supreleron, a chip which is basically a chemical neutering.


Thanks Carly, that's very useful information. I knew there was a hormone in plant for queens but didn't know about the male one. If we do this of course, not really discussed it in detail. I also want to see how well Milo and Millie get on with him.

His dad does spray all over his outdoor run, his brother on his mothers side doesn't and is 16months.


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## carly87

But that brother isn't working yet is he? So no real need to spray as he's not sexually ready yet.


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## MollyMilo

carly87 said:


> But that brother isn't working yet is he? So no real need to spray as he's not sexually ready yet.


Very true! Perhaps he'll never be ready haha I thought siamese matured early


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## spotty cats

MollyMilo said:


> Very true! Perhaps he'll never be ready haha I thought siamese matured early


there's always one. The sire of one of my girls was almost 2 before he had a litter, she then called at 14 weeks 

My boy's father hoses down the place, as do boys all along the pedigree on both sides but he remains a clean, well behaved lad.


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