# Surely this evil practce has to stop..halal meat



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I find this utterly unexceptable,i thought this country had rules when it comes to slaughtering animals.Reading this makes me so angry,rules are in place to ensure animals dont suffer,then why the hell are we going back to the dark ages?
Britain goes halal (...but nobody tells public) | Mail Online*


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I find this utterly unexceptable,i thought this country had rules when it comes to slaughtering animals.Reading this makes me so angry,rules are in place to ensure animals dont suffer,then why the hell are we going back to the dark ages?
> Britain goes halal (...but nobody tells public) | Mail Online*


You're so right. I've always been very opposed to halal but it's such a delicate subject you get accused of racism when you speak out against it. (My counter argument is that there's no law forcing people to eat meat, regardless of their religion.) I have read, and I don't know if this is true, that the exception for halal meat is purely for Moslems and therefore it is illegal to provide it for non-Moslems.


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## toria (Aug 9, 2010)

A spokesman for Twickenham, which sells only halal chicken despite not advertising the fact, insisted that the lack of transparency had never been an issue and said: Our consideration is more for those who want halal, to ensure they get it.

I think that says it all really!
Why not advertise it?

I do eat meat however i do want the animal killed in a humane way.
If other cultures do it different im afraid there is nothing we can do...but surely we are entitled to know how the animal was slaughtered.

The only way to win this is for people to not buy it.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Lulu's owner said:


> You're so right. I've always been very opposed to halal but it's such a delicate subject you get accused of racism when you speak out against it. (My counter argument is that there's no law forcing people to eat meat, regardless of their religion.) I have read, and I don't know if this is true, that the exception for halal meat is purely for Moslems and therefore it is illegal to provide it for non-Moslems.


*According to the article,halal meat is being served to people without their knowledge.Sorry please or offend but there is proof that muslims can eat NONE halal meat,so there is no excuse,imo.*


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

I don't eat meat but I've never agreed with the way halal meat is killed.

Are some schools where alot of pupils eat halal not going to start serving only halal meat?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

vile! animal welfare should come 1st eveytime! i would have been horrified if my kids had been served halal!

just to add its been proved that animals can still be stunned before their throats are slit and the meat will still be halal!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I think it is evil.
It should be clearly marked on all packaging and on menus how the meat was killed IMO. These places would loose loads of trade if people knew!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

*Muslim law states: Surah 2.173 states: If one is forced because there is no other choice,there is no sin in him.

Islamic dietary laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> I think it is evil.
> It should be clearly marked on all packaging and on menus how the meat was killed IMO. These places would loose loads of trade if people knew!


*As far as i'm concernd Claire halal meat should be banned full stop.It goes against our rules.*


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

I agree Janice, the halal practice should be banned, seems a contradiction when the UK has it's own laws on animal slaughter  

In this day and age there really is no need for this practice and shame on the UK for advocating it  

As for places selling/serving only halal I think that is disgusting!! There would soon be an outcry if it was revealed that muslims were being given humanely slaughtered meat without their knowledge


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *As far as i'm concernd Claire halal meat should be banned full stop.It goes against our rules.*


*It's not just against our rules...as i posted, even their own law states if no other meat is available then they are allowed to eat it...so the answer?...BAN IT.*


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

Ah, the two great evils in the world, religion and the act of meat eating.

ps. Muslims should abide my our laws..."when in Rome" as the saying says. We bend waaaaay too much for these constantly moaning muslims. If they don't like the British way of life, why the f*** are they here? 

FYI ALL slaughter is cruel


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *As far as i'm concernd Claire halal meat should be banned full stop.It goes against our rules.*


Agreed!...


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *As far as i'm concernd Claire halal meat should be banned full stop.It goes against our rules.*


 Yep Janice and while I do agree with what your saying the fact is it isnt banned! and I guess its probabley unlikely it will ever be banned.
So I believe it should be labelled to give people a choice if they want to eat it. 
I know if I went into a resturant that served Halal meat I wouldn't eat the meals it contained and if enough people avoided these products maybe something would be done. I intend on asking anywhere I eat now and leaving if the do serve Halal meat!


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *It's not just against our rules...as i posted, even their own law states if no other meat is available then they are allowed to eat it...so the answer?...BAN IT.*


Correct!

And I would like to add, when the British are abraod, they don't get to dictate how their meat is slaughtered. So why oh why are we contanstly letting THEM dictate to Britain, and at the same time animals are suffering as a consequence.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I would guess most Kebabs, Indian Food, is made from Halal!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

martinlewislegend said:


> Correct!
> 
> And I would like to add, when the British are abraod, they don't get to dictate how their meat is slaughtered. So why oh why are we contanstly letting THEM dictate to Britain, and at the same time animals are suffering as a consequence.


*Totally agree. *


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

Can I just ask, do any of you on this thread buy your meat from Tesco or Asda?
For them to provide your meat so cheap, the animals are kept in horrific/cramp conditions and fed awful rubbish food.
Double standards? Dare I say?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

martinlewislegend said:


> Correct!
> 
> And I would like to add, when the British are abraod, they don't get to dictate how their meat is slaughtered. So why oh why are we contanstly letting THEM dictate to Britain, and at the same time animals are suffering as a consequence.


I dont like the term 'THEM'. This isnt a Muslim bashing thread! its about Halal and they way in which animals are slaughtered


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

martinlewislegend said:


> Can I just ask, do any of you on this thread buy your meat from Tesco or Asda?
> For them to provide your meat so cheap, the animals are kept in horrific/cramp conditions and fed awful rubbish food.
> Double standards? Dare I say?


I agree with this. Also I wonder where the meat comes from us pet lovers feed our pets!!!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

martinlewislegend said:


> Can I just ask, do any of you on this thread buy your meat from Tesco or Asda?
> For them to provide your meat so cheap, the animals are kept in horrific/cramp conditions and fed awful rubbish food.
> Double standards? Dare I say?


no im vegetarian oops better just add i have carnivours in my family tho so i do buy meat a couple of times a week but always buy free range from the butchers, some times i have bought them 'spoiled pig' bacon from morrisons from free range pigs....dont really like buying any meat but i dont force my views on my family and i always shop around for more humane meats.


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> I agree with this. Also I wonder where the meat comes from us pet lovers feed our pets!!!


Precisely.

Non of us are Lily white, just shades of grey of a varying degree. Some more towards the grey/black end, and some towards the grey/white.


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> no im vegetarian


Me too.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> So I believe it should be labelled to give people a choice if they want to eat it.
> I know if I went into a resturant that served Halal meat I wouldn't eat the meals it contained and if enough people avoided these products maybe something would be done. I intend on asking anywhere I eat now and leaving if the do serve Halal meat!


*Exactly Claire...let's face it vegetarian food has to be labelled to show it is fit for vegetarians to eat so the same should apply to things such as Halal. I for one strongly object to being duped into eating/buying something against my beliefs.*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

martinlewislegend said:


> Correct!
> 
> And I would like to add, when the British are abraod, they don't get to dictate how their meat is slaughtered. So why oh why are we contanstly letting THEM dictate to Britain, and at the same time animals are suffering as a consequence.


*Totaly agree with you,but this country has lost its back bone.*


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Totaly agree with you,but this country has lost its back bone.*


Totally agree with YOU!


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## sweetice2010 (Aug 13, 2010)

I am Hindu and I ate meat for years. I'm 24 year old and dad use to eat as does bro etc but I have given up meat since last year. Halal meat disgusts me and when i did eat meat I use to buy stuff from free range and non halal. I think its disgusting how places like kfc and mcdonalds etc also serve up halal meat. It shouldn't be allowed they should have to stick to uk law not bring in laws from abroad. As someone mentioned earlier if the government said no halal meat there would be uproar so why is it not the same vice versa. Not enough people stand up to it cause its 'racist' I think it's rubbish!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

sweetice2010 said:


> I am Hindu and I ate meat for years. I'm 24 year old and dad use to eat as does bro etc but I have given up meat since last year. Halal meat disgusts me and when i did eat meat I use to buy stuff from free range and non halal. I think its disgusting how places like kfc and mcdonalds etc also serve up halal meat. It shouldn't be allowed they should have to stick to uk law not bring in laws from abroad. As someone mentioned earlier if the government said no halal meat there would be uproar so why is it not the same vice versa. Not enough people stand up to it cause its 'racist' I think it's rubbish!!


*I hate it when the racist card is played everytime,people need to wake and realise racism works both ways.*


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

sweetice2010 said:


> I am Hindu and I ate meat for years. I'm 24 year old and dad use to eat as does bro etc but I have given up meat since last year. Halal meat disgusts me and when i did eat meat I use to buy stuff from free range and non halal. I think its disgusting how places like kfc and mcdonalds etc also serve up halal meat. It shouldn't be allowed they should have to stick to uk law not bring in laws from abroad. As someone mentioned earlier if the government said no halal meat there would be uproar so why is it not the same vice versa. Not enough people stand up to it cause its 'racist' I think it's rubbish!!


Exactly! The racist card is played waaaaay too often, to avoid discussing important issues. And so the animals continue to suffer 

x


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I hate it when the racist card is played everytime,people need to wake and realise racism works both ways.*


Couldn't agree more!


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

my nephew's school serves only halal meat. some KFC chains serve only halal meat. and BA are going to serve only halal meat.

this is not on. I refuse to buy anything from KFC anymore and I wouldn't fly BA. The only way we can win is to hit them where it hurts, their profits, and not to buy from anywhere that sells only halal meat.

(note: I have no problem with muslims eating halal meat, but stores shouldn't sell ONLY halal meat, there should be a choice).


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> my nephew's school serves only halal meat. some KFC chains serve only halal meat. and BA are going to serve only halal meat.
> 
> this is not on. I refuse to buy anything from KFC anymore and I wouldn't fly BA. The only way we can win is to hit them where it hurts, their profits, and not to buy from anywhere that sells only halal meat.
> 
> (note: I have no problem with muslims eating halal meat, but stores shouldn't sell ONLY halal meat, there should be a choice).


*Sorry but i don't think there should be a choice.This country came out of the dark ages and started to slaughter animals humanely.Why should we go back to those days?*


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

Muslim leaders (radical)are trying to turn Britain into an Islamic state, Dispatches discussed it in March. At first I wasn't convinced, but now I am sure. It is already happening with Halal meat, where does it end?

Dispatches - Britain's Islamic Republic - Channel 4


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

martinlewislegend said:


> Muslim leaders are trying to turn Britain into an Islamic state, Dispatches discussed it in March. At first I wasn't convinced, but now I am sure. It is already happening with Halal meat, where does it end?
> 
> Dispatches - Britain's Islamic Republic - Channel 4


*Very interesting im beginning to wonder myself now.*


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> *Sorry but i don't think there should be a choice.This country came out of the dark ages and started to slaughter animals humanely.Why should we go back to those days?*


i believe that people should be allowed choices. it's their religious belief to eat halal meat and I respect that. but I expect them to respect my beliefs that I don't want to eat halal meat, and that's where the issue for me lies.


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> *Sorry but i don't think there should be a choice.This country came out of the dark ages and started to slaughter animals humanely.Why should we go back to those days?*


Exactly Janice! All smacks a bit like the call for the repeal of the fox hunting ban. Why don't we just overturn every humane law we made?????


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

martinlewislegend said:


> Exactly Janice! All smacks a bit like the call for the repeal of the fox hunting ban. Why don't we just overturn every humane law we made?????


*I agree with you on that...snidey gits sneak in many laws that they know full well the MAJORITY of this country don't/won't approve of. *


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> i believe that people should be allowed choices. it's their religious belief to eat halal meat and I respect that. but I expect them to respect my beliefs that I don't want to eat halal meat, and that's where the issue for me lies.


But if a certain "belief" inflicts EXTRA suffering, surely that cannot be allowed or accepted as the norm? That is at least a 50 year step backwards for animal welfare. As Freespirit pointed out, their religion DOES let them eat other slaughtered meat.

Sometimes it is wrong, and should be pointed out as so. No matter what the "PC" lot say.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> i believe that people should be allowed choices. it's their religious belief to eat halal meat and I respect that. but I expect them to respect my beliefs that I don't want to eat halal meat, and that's where the issue for me lies.


*The thing is,people can't say that we should respect other religions and then claim to be against animal cruelty.Muslims CAN eat meat slaughterd our way,so where's the problem?*


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

martinlewislegend said:


> But if a certain "belief" inflicts EXTRA suffering, surely that cannot be allowed or accepted as the norm? That is at least a 50 year step backwards for animal welfare. As Freespirit pointed out, their religion DOES let them eat other slaughtered meat.


*Exactly...Their OWN religion says they can eat non-Halal so just BAN it. No choice...no problem. Why on earth would anyone want to give choice to something that encourages even more suffering to an animal?*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

martinlewislegend said:


> But if a certain "belief" inflicts EXTRA suffering, surely that cannot be allowed or accepted as the norm? That is at least a 50 year step backwards for animal welfare. As Freespirit pointed out, their religion DOES let them eat other slaughtered meat.
> 
> Sometimes it is wrong, and should be pointed out as so. No matter what the "PC" lot say.


*haha we posted at the same time again.*


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Very interesting im beginning to wonder myself now.*


It is a great link/program! If you can still watch it on 4OD, i recommend it!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

martinlewislegend said:


> It is a great link/program! If you can still watch it on 4OD, i recommend it!


*I'll definitely try to watch that...Thanks for the link. *


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

What the Halal? | News Of The World


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *I'll definitely try to watch that...Thanks for the link. *


Ah, 40D are not showing it anymore  Maybe youtube?


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

martinlewislegend said:


> Ah, 40D are not showing it anymore  Maybe youtube?


*It's ok i found it here. 

Britain's Islamic Republic Video*


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

Radical Muslims in high political power in Britain are trying to change Britains laws and social order.

Dispatches - Britain's Islamic Republic - Channel 4 a video clip.


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *It's ok i found it here.
> 
> Britain's Islamic Republic Video*


Ah, you clever wee thing


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> What the Halal? | News Of The World


* This country will sell its soul to the highest bidder.Sorry but this has realy made me angry.*


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> What the Halal? | News Of The World


Thanks for posting. Interesting that Tower Hamlets is mentioned, they are at the fore front of the British Islamic state effort. ;


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *According to the article,halal meat is being served to people without their knowledge.Sorry please or offend but there is proof that muslims can eat NONE halal meat,so there is no excuse,imo.*


I am not going to quote from the Bible, because I don't have one handy, but when someone asked St Paul what they should do if they were invited to dinner and found that the meat had been sacrificed to a false god, St. Paul's reply was to the effect that they shouldn't ask about the origin of the meat, then they would be committing no sin by eating it.

This is sheer hypocrisy! I think it is high time this country did something to enforce OUR laws and stop pandering to the whims to immigrants. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it is how I feel. Were we to move to their country, there are various things we would not be allowed to do, but they can come here and break all our laws in the name of religion.

I don't think I should have read this thread; it has got me all riled up!


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I am not going to quote from the Bible, because I don't have one handy, but when someone asked St Paul what they should do if they were invited to dinner and found that the meat had been sacrificed to a false god, St. Paul's reply was to the effect that they shouldn't ask about the origin of the meat, then they would be committing no sin by eating it.
> 
> This is sheer hypocrisy! I think it is high time this country did something to enforce OUR laws and stop pandering to the whims to immigrants. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it is how I feel. Were we to move to their country, there are various things we would not be allowed to do, but they can come here and break all our laws in the name of religion.
> 
> I don't think I should have read this thread; it has got me all riled up!


You are not alone!


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

In future when eating out (which I do frequently) I`ll ask if it is halal meat. If it is, I`ll refuse it. 
So thanks for bringing this to my notice.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I am not going to quote from the Bible, because I don't have one handy, but when someone asked St Paul what they should do if they were invited to dinner and found that the meat had been sacrificed to a false god, St. Paul's reply was to the effect that they shouldn't ask about the origin of the meat, then they would be committing no sin by eating it.
> 
> This is sheer hypocrisy! I think it is high time this country did something to enforce OUR laws and stop pandering to the whims to immigrants. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it is how I feel. Were we to move to their country, there are various things we would not be allowed to do, but they can come here and break all our laws in the name of religion.
> 
> I don't think I should have read this thread; it has got me all riled up!


*This topic will anger many and i totally agree with what you have said. *



ClaireandDaisy said:


> In future when eating out (which I do frequently) I`ll ask if it is halal meat. If it is, I`ll refuse it.
> So thanks for bringing this to my notice.


*Don't blame you....although you shouldn't have to in your own country but sadly it looks like we no longer have a say. *


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> *Sorry but i don't think there should be a choice.This country came out of the dark ages and started to slaughter animals humanely.Why should we go back to those days?*


Dead right...We've taken hundreds of years to become civilized in this country,now we're going back centuries to accomodate races that are living in mediaeval days.
If this is racism... *then I am*...this is my country...fought for with a lot of blood from my relatives.Not for a load of foreigners to come over here with their filthy ways.Is this what my Grandad (fire brigade WW2) two uncles (Army WW2) An Aunt and two cousins (Blitz) died for??


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

poohdog said:


> Dead right...We've taken hundreds of years to become civilized in this country,now we're going back centuries to accomodate races that are living in mediaeval days.
> If this is racism... *then I am*...this is my country...fought for with a lot of blood from my relatives.Not for a load of foreigners to come over here with their filthy ways.Is this what my Grandad (fire brigade WW2) two uncles (Army WW2) An Aunt and two cousins (Blitz) died for??


*Oh i can totaly understand where your coming from.I was only saying to someone a few minutes ago,people that fought for this country would turn in their graves at the way things are going.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

So agree with pooh and janice's posts, many of us are told we are racist what does "racist" actually mean, does it mean because we dont agree with our country been taken over?, dont agree with being insulted by having immigrants coming over and taking all that "we" have believed in what our families have fought and died for? dont agree with immigrants coming in with a total disregard for what we believe in and our laws? because if that what being racist is then ime sorry i must be racist because i dont agree and would like my country back please.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> So agree with pooh and janice's posts, many of us are told we are racist what does "racist" actually mean, does it mean because we dont agree with our country been taken over?, dont agree with being insulted by having immigrants coming over and taking all that "we" have believed in what our families have fought and died for? dont agree with immigrants coming in with a total disregard for what we believe in and our laws? because if that what being racist is then ime sorry i must be racist because i dont agree and would like my country back please.


*I find it so sad that things that are happening in this country have got some of us changing our long term views on these subjects.I can't remember when or why things started to change. Give an inch,take a mile comes to mind.*


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> So agree with pooh and janice's posts, many of us are told we are racist what does "racist" actually mean, does it mean because we dont agree with our country been taken over?, dont agree with being insulted by having immigrants coming over and taking all that "we" have believed in what our families have fought and died for? dont agree with immigrants coming in with a total disregard for what we believe in and our laws? because if that what being racist is then ime sorry i must be racist because i dont agree and would like my country back please.


Rep for that.

I've stopped getting supermarket meat and fast food in an attempt to reduce my part in cruelty to food animals as much as possible. I only buy free range from the market now. I'm afraid my future child will be on packed lunches if that's what's served in schools...


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I find it so sad that things that are happening in this country have got some of us changing our long term views on these subjects.I can't remember when or why things started to change. Give an inch,take a mile comes to mind.*


Ime sure thats the case weve given in far too much, and they have now taken over.


Argent said:


> Rep for that.
> 
> I've stopped getting supermarket meat and fast food in an attempt to reduce my part in cruelty to food animals as much as possible. I only buy free range from the market now. I'm afraid my future child will be on packed lunches if that's what's served in schools...


Isnt it annoying though that we have to do such things as watch everything we are buying and where we buy it from and none of it is any of our doing.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Isnt it annoying though that we have to do such things as watch everything we are buying and where we buy it from and none of it is any of our doing.


*Totally agree and i for one am sick of it and find it quite worrying that this is happening.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Totally agree and i for one am sick of it and find it quite worrying that this is happening.*


Your right it is worrying because where is all this going to end, how bad is it going to get because before long Great Britain, United Kingdom isnt going to exist any more, because its as sure as hell not GREAT anymore. and certainly doesnt belong to us.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Your right it is worrying because where is all this going to end, how bad is it going to get because before long Great Britain, United Kingdom isnt going to exist any more, because its as sure as hell not GREAT anymore. and certainly doesnt belong to us.


*So true...what's odd too that others can play the racism card when something isn't racist at all but does that mean we can do the same?...Does it heck. We want certain standards to remain and have every right to stand up and say so. After all, isn't this a country of free speech?...yeah i know...laughable.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *So true...what's odd too that others can play the racism card when something isn't racist at all but does that mean we can do the same?...Does it heck. We want certain standards to remain and have every right to stand up and say so. After all, isn't this a country of free speech?...yeah i know...laughable.*


Supposed to be.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

My understanding of being a racist means is someone who thinks themselves superior because of their skin colour, the likes of white supremacists, who think they are superior because they are white, for no other reason. This is racism. What we are talking about here has nothing to do with skin colour; it is an unacceptable clash of cultures which we, as British people of whatever colour, should not have to put up with.


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

martinlewislegend said:


> Ah, the two great evils in the world, religion and the act of meat eating.
> 
> ps. Muslims should abide my our laws..."when in Rome" as the saying says. We bend waaaaay too much for these constantly moaning muslims. If they don't like the British way of life, why the f*** are they here?
> 
> FYI ALL slaughter is cruel


Haha,Love it!
My friend at work has married a boy half her age,who is muslim,so she has converted.Ridiculous.She couldnt have a dog,as they smell,even when clean.
If she had had one before she converted,she would have had it destroyed.Nice eh? Lovely woman,very intelligent,but blinded by love.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

holly1 said:


> Haha,Love it!
> My friend at work has married a boy half her age,who is muslim,so she has converted.Ridiculous.She couldnt have a dog,as they smell,even when clean.
> If she had had one before she converted,she would have had it destroyed.Nice eh? Lovely woman,very intelligent,but blinded by love.


She must be desperate! Sorry, I know she is your friend, but if any man told me to give up my dogs I would made sure he knew where the door was and how to open it.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> My understanding of being a racist means is someone who thinks themselves superior because of their skin colour, the likes of white supremacists, who think they are superior because they are white, for no other reason. This is racism. What we are talking about here has nothing to do with skin colour; it is an unacceptable clash of cultures which we, as British people of whatever colour, should not have to put up with.


*Thats what being racist use to be,But unfortunatly that isn't the case anymore.It seems more and more that if you disagree with anything from another culture then your classed as racist.But on this subject of halal meat,people can call me what they like,but i refuse to accept the slaughtering of animals in a barbaric way.*


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> My understanding of being a racist means is someone who thinks themselves superior because of their skin colour, the likes of white supremacists, who think they are superior because they are white, for no other reason. This is racism. What we are talking about here has nothing to do with skin colour; it is an unacceptable clash of cultures which we, as British people of whatever colour, should not have to put up with.





JANICE199 said:


> *Thats what being racist use to be,But unfortunatly that isn't the case anymore.It seems more and more that if you disagree with anything from another culture then your classed as racist.But on this subject of halal meat,people can call me what they like,but i refuse to accept the slaughtering of animals in a barbaric way.*


*Exactly...and the majority of British people regardless of colour/culture/religion DO NOT want to see animals suffering in such a way, nor do they want such views forced upon them or snidely slipped through the system without our knowledge or consent.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

My husbands cousins daughter married a muslim and at the age of 20 she has 4 boys has had 7 pregnancies in total the 3 she aborted because he made her because they were girls she is what he wants her to be a baby making machine, has to be covered up all the time, has no contact with her family he wont allow that wont even let her out of the house without him, what a life! she is totally brainwashed and controlled by him and his family. I know this thread was started by janice and it has gone way off topic by me as much as anyone and i apologise but you can see the parallels, halal is just another thing that has crept in without anyone noticing or realising just like the rest, where is it going to end i ask again and i know no one knows because we have no say over anything that happens in this country anymore and if anyone is brave enough to speak out they are racist and damned.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thats what being racist use to be,But unfortunatly that isn't the case anymore.It seems more and more that if you disagree with anything from another culture then your classed as racist.But on this subject of halal meat,people can call me what they like,but i refuse to accept the slaughtering of animals in a barbaric way.*


Then the immigrants must be racist too, mustn't they, as they won't accept our way of life and they even object to their kids learning christianity in OUR schools! And everybody listens to them.

When I was at school, children of other religions were simply excluded from assemblies and Religious Education classes. It was always Jewish children back then, and this practice still goes on in today's schools with Jehovah's Witness children. So why can't they just stay out of those classes? Because they are right and we are wrong, it is an insult to Allah and all the other nonsense.

I definitely shouldn't have started to read this bloody thread!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Deffo dont agree with them not telling us - as a consumer we should have the right to know how our meat is killed so we can then choose which meat is best for us to eat - to me this is them lying to us - very wrong - but what I dont understand is who makes the decisions on how to kill it ??? I thought all our slaughter houses had strict rules to adhere to ??


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Then the immigrants must be racist too, mustn't they, as they won't accept our way of life and they even object to their kids learning christianity in OUR schools! And everybody listens to them.
> 
> When I was at school, children of other religions were simply excluded from assemblies and Religious Education classes. It was always Jewish children back then, and this practice still goes on in today's schools with Jehovah's Witness children. So why can't they just stay out of those classes? Because they are right and we are wrong, it is an insult to Allah and all the other nonsense.
> 
> I definitely shouldn't have started to read this bloody thread!


*Very true and very valid points. *


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Deffo dont agree with them not telling us - as a consumer we should have the right to know how our meat is killed so we can then choose which meat is best for us to eat - to me this is them lying to us - very wrong - but what I dont understand is who makes the decisions on how to kill it ??? I thought all our slaughter houses had strict rules to adhere to ??


But they have their own slaughterhouses and they are allowed to break our rules and run them how they like in our country because they say it is their religion. It all goes back to the Old Testament, but although there are still Kosher butchers in areas heavily populated by Orthodox Jews, they have updated themselves somewhat in this regard.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Deffo dont agree with them not telling us - as a consumer we should have the right to know how our meat is killed so we can then choose which meat is best for us to eat - to me this is them lying to us - very wrong - but what I dont understand is who makes the decisions on how to kill it ??? I thought all our slaughter houses had strict rules to adhere to ??


*Our slaughterhouses are supposed to have strict rules, however this has been shown to be broken too in regards to our own standards. As for the Halal meat, this one is being slipped in right under our noses and without telling us that this is now prevalent and in most fast food places, supermarkets, schools, hospitals, venues, pubs, etc....totally barbaric in the killing of the animal and an abuse of OUR rights.*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

We have rules and regulations in the country regarding the slaughter of animals!

I've never agreed with how halal meat is killed.

If it is that important to those who chose to eat halal that they continue to do so I have not problem with that! JUST SO LONG AS THOSE SLAUGHTERS DONT TAKE PLACE HERE IN THE UK!

As always proof that there are two sets of laws in the UK!

You have probably guessed I am fast beginning to hate this country!

To those brave men that are rested is our graveyards I ask! how could they do this to you!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> But they have their own slaughterhouses and they are allowed to break our rules and run them how they like in our country because they say it is their religion. It all goes back to the Old Testament, but although there are still Kosher butchers in areas heavily populated by Orthodox Jews, they have updated themselves somewhat in this regard.


Yes in certain areas where I live there are many Halal butchers etc because of predominantly muslim neighbourhoods.



FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Our slaughterhouses are supposed to have strict rules, however this has been shown to be broken too in regards to our own standards. As for the Halal meat, this one is being slipped in right under our noses and without telling us that this is now prevalent and in most fast food places, supermarkets, schools, hospitals, venues, pubs, etc....totally barbaric in the killing of the animal and an abuse of OUR rights.*


It is wrong I agree - and very scary when you think about what they hide from us


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Then the immigrants must be racist too, mustn't they, as they won't accept our way of life and they even object to their kids learning christianity in OUR schools! And everybody listens to them.
> 
> When I was at school, children of other religions were simply excluded from assemblies and Religious Education classes. It was always Jewish children back then, and this practice still goes on in today's schools with Jehovah's Witness children. So why can't they just stay out of those classes? Because they are right and we are wrong, it is an insult to Allah and all the other nonsense.
> 
> I definitely shouldn't have started to read this bloody thread!


When I was at school the only relegions were Roman Catholics and C of E and as you say the RC's were excluded frommorning assembly!

Can someone remind me please when did it all alter!
Because in all honest I prefer the old way!
But!! guess we are pat the point of return!
Enouch - I bet you are laffing at the bunch of muppets trying to run this country now arn't you!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


haeveymolly said:



My husbands cousins daughter married a muslim and at the age of 20 she has 4 boys has had 7 pregnancies in total the 3 she aborted because he made her because they were girls she is what he wants her to be a baby making machine, has to be covered up all the time, has no contact with her family he wont allow that wont even let her out of the house without him, what a life! she is totally brainwashed and controlled by him and his family. I know this thread was started by janice and it has gone way off topic by me as much as anyone and i apologise but you can see the parallels, halal is just another thing that has crept in without anyone noticing or realising just like the rest, where is it going to end i ask again and i know no one knows because we have no say over anything that happens in this country anymore and if anyone is brave enough to speak out they are racist and damned.

Click to expand...

I can understand how this has swayed a little from halal meat,but from what i am reading (the posts) i get the feeling many people don't like whats going on in OUR country.The trouble is,one thing has lead to another in this country and i feel we are loosing OUR identity.



newfiesmum said:



Then the immigrants must be racist too, mustn't they, as they won't accept our way of life and they even object to their kids learning christianity in OUR schools! And everybody listens to them.

When I was at school, children of other religions were simply excluded from assemblies and Religious Education classes. It was always Jewish children back then, and this practice still goes on in today's schools with Jehovah's Witness children. So why can't they just stay out of those classes? Because they are right and we are wrong, it is an insult to Allah and all the other nonsense.

I definitely shouldn't have started to read this bloody thread!

Click to expand...

The same applied when i was at school.As for the imigrants being racist,for everyone that wants to play the racist card,then yes they are. imo.*


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

So glad i live here, on this tiny tiny Island.........


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> I can understand how this has swayed a little from halal meat,but from what i am reading (the posts) i get the feeling many people don't like whats going on in OUR country.The trouble is,one thing has lead to another in this country and i feel we are loosing OUR identity.:
> 
> ...


IMO there are more racist immgrants then the are of us!" It is about time the racist laws were scrapped if you want my viewes on that!!:thumbup:


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> I can understand how this has swayed a little from halal meat,but from what i am reading (the posts) i get the feeling many people don't like whats going on in OUR country.The trouble is,one thing has lead to another in this country and i feel we are loosing OUR identity.
> 
> .*


Not only are we losing our idenity! It won't be long now before we are in the minority!
Wonder what laws our wonderful government will sneak into place for us!! in our dreams!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> So glad i live here, on this tiny tiny Island.........


*pmsl i live on an island but we still have a problem.*


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

i was shocked when i read that they`re serving halal meat in school without informing parents, so glad i make my daughter a packed lunch now at least that way i know what she`s having!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Leah84 said:


> i was shocked when i read that they`re serving halal meat in school without informing parents, so glad i make my daughter a packed lunch now at least that way i know what she`s having!!


*Makes you wonder what else we haven't found out yet.*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

TBO I dont see what race has to do with this argument - and before you all gang up on me YES I love my country and YES I am proud to be british and would like to see our traditional values still in this country - BUT that doesnt mean that I dont think others who live here do not have a right as well - its the small majority of the PC brigade who make it bad for ALL of us who live here and try to keep dividing us all the time by making us hate each other - im sure there are muslims out there who would disagree with what is happening with regards to the meat ??


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> im sure there are muslims out there who would disagree with what is happening with regards to the meat ??


Can you show me one please?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Can you show me one please?


Aww come on DT you cannot say that ALL muslims will think the same way  Im not denying that there is a lot of things in this country we need to start standing up for but to do that we do not have to put down other races or religions or assume that they all are against us.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Makes you wonder what else we haven't found out yet.*


You will NEVER find out the true extent! because there would be an uproar!!
For instance the National Health budget! Which they are planning drastic cuts for! Remind me!! who are they going to hit? Smokers, Drinkers, Old folk???
Did you see any mention of the inteprutation allocation!
Yep! thats right!! £120 an hour for providing an interpurate for those who cannot speak English!!

DT


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> TBO I dont see what race has to do with this argument - and before you all gang up on me YES I love my country and YES I am proud to be british and would like to see our traditional values still in this country - BUT that doesnt mean that I dont think others who live here do not have a right as well - its the small majority of the PC brigade who make it bad for ALL of us who live here and try to keep dividing us all the time by making us hate each other - im sure there are muslims out there who would disagree with what is happening with regards to the meat ??


*Totally agree and you are right, this has nothing to do with race nor should it. Also yes some Muslims also eat non-Halal meat. What's more their religion states that if there is no other meat available then it is not a sin to eat non-Halal.*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Totally agree and you are right, this has nothing to do with race nor should it. Also yes some Muslims also eat non-Halal meat. What's more their religion states that if there is no other meat available then it is not a sin to eat non-Halal.*


Then thats easy! There is NO other meat available!
As in some countries there is no alcohol available!
Don't see a problem with that myself!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Can you show me one please?


*Taken from last paragraph no:2 at bottom of article in link given:

"Over 90 per cent of animals slaughtered for halal meat in the UK are already stunned before slaughter, demonstrating widespread acceptance of the practice within the Muslim community. Similarly, many people within the Jewish community do not support slaughter without prestunning. Many Muslims and Jews are also vegetarian, indicating that the consumption of meat slaughtered in any particular fashion is not central to their religious beliefs. Banning slaughter without prestunning would not stop people from following the religious faiths of their choosing."

Viva! - Vegetarians International Voice for Animals 
*


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Then thats easy! There is NO other meat available!
> As in some countries there is no alcohol available!
> Don't see a problem with that myself!


*Ive already stated if we ban Halal there would be no problem as technically their own religion states they can eat non-Halal if there is no other choice available.*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Taken from last paragraph no:2 at bottom of article in link given:
> 
> "Over 90 per cent of animals slaughtered for halal meat in the UK are already stunned before slaughter, demonstrating widespread acceptance of the practice within the Muslim community. Similarly, many people within the Jewish community do not support slaughter without prestunning. Many Muslims and Jews are also vegetarian, indicating that the consumption of meat slaughtered in any particular fashion is not central to their religious beliefs. Banning slaughter without prestunning would not stop people from following the religious faiths of their choosing."
> 
> ...


Ah! but that was a statement from a vegetarian voice! 
Saying and doing are too seperate things!
DT


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Ive already stated if we ban Halal there would be no problem as technically their own religion states they can eat non-Halal if there is no other choice available.*


Then thats easy! I've with you on this one! - we ban it:thumbup::thumbup:
nd then I woke up! we are dreaming to even think our pathetic government would ever consider anything that would potentially cause an uproar againt our 'visitors/squatters' call em what you like!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Ah! but that was a statement from a vegetarian voice!
> Saying and doing are too seperate things!
> DT


*Regardless of the source...Anyone that has heard of VIVA knows they know their stuff and campaign seriously about animal welfare. *


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Then thats easy! I've with you on this one! - we ban it:thumbup::thumbup:
> and then I woke up! we are dreaming to even think out pathetic government would ever consider anything that would potentially cause an uproar againt our 'visitors/squatters' call em what you like!


Invaders? I am old enough to remember the speech made by Enoch Powell which got him evicted from the government. He warned against immigration, saying that it would eventually cause a bloodbath. He was right, as many of us knew at the time, but even back then the government were afraid of being called racist and got rid of him. They should have listened to him.

My brother and sister-in-law, who are coming up to eighty, are having to move from the house they have lived in for over fifty years because they are treated like outsiders and given no respect from the immigrants who have surrounded them. They are being plagued by unruly children (my sister-in-law called them feral) making noise and bouncing balls till ten at night. They live in north London and have had not a single English person come to view; all immigrants wanting to buy to let. When I spoke to her this morning, she sounded like she was on the verge of a breakdown, and she has always been so strong.

This thread is getting quite serious now, and I am very much afraid it may be closed down. So before it is, thanks everyone for letting me know that it is not just me.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Invaders? I am old enough to remember the speech made by Enoch Powell which got him evicted from the government. He warned against immigration, saying that it would eventually cause a bloodbath. He was right, as many of us knew at the time, but even back then the government were afraid of being called racist and got rid of him. They should have listened to him.
> 
> My brother and sister-in-law, who are coming up to eighty, are having to move from the house they have lived in for over fifty years because they are treated like outsiders and given no respect from the immigrants who have surrounded them. They are being plagued by unruly children (my sister-in-law called them feral) making noise and bouncing balls till ten at night. They live in north London and have had not a single English person come to view; all immigrants wanting to buy to let. When I spoke to her this morning, she sounded like she was on the verge of a breakdown, and she has always been so strong.
> 
> This thread is getting quite serious now, and I am very much afraid it may be closed down. So before it is, thanks everyone for letting me know that it is not just me.


It ain't just you! and I am your number one fan!!
I sneaked Enouch in on the thread earlier but thought he had gone undeteteced!

As for our government!! Novemember 5th!! would like to see that re-created!!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Invaders? I am old enough to remember the speech made by Enoch Powell which got him evicted from the government. He warned against immigration, saying that it would eventually cause a bloodbath. He was right, as many of us knew at the time, but even back then the government were afraid of being called racist and got rid of him. They should have listened to him.
> 
> My brother and sister-in-law, who are coming up to eighty, are having to move from the house they have lived in for over fifty years because they are treated like outsiders and given no respect from the immigrants who have surrounded them. They are being plagued by unruly children (my sister-in-law called them feral) making noise and bouncing balls till ten at night. They live in north London and have had not a single English person come to view; all immigrants wanting to buy to let. When I spoke to her this morning, she sounded like she was on the verge of a breakdown, and she has always been so strong.
> 
> This thread is getting quite serious now, and I am very much afraid it may be closed down. So before it is, thanks everyone for letting me know that it is not just me.


*What a coincidence...my mum Janice199 was just reading me Enoch Powell's speech. *


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *What a coincidence...my mum Janice199 was just reading me Enoch Powell's speech. *


summat you mum and me will no doubt always agree on FS!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> As for our government!! Novemember 5th!! would like to see that re-created!!


But only if it succeeds this time!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *What a coincidence...my mum Janice199 was just reading me Enoch Powell's speech. *


*lol and the reason i was talking to you about it was because you and a lot of others of your age and younger were'nt around when he made that speech.He should never have been outed as he was just because he told the truth.
For those that don't know Enoch Powells speech here's the link.
Rivers of Blood speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> But only if it succeeds this time!


*lol...Im with you on that one. :lol:*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

Maybe we ought to start a NEW political party!
the Enoch Powell Appreciation PArty!:thumbup:

EPAP!

preserving our future!!

DT


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Anyone in any doubt about halal meat might want to take a look at this.*

*WARNING VERY GRAPHIC.*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Anyone in any doubt about halal meat might want to take a look at this.*
> 
> *WARNING VERY GRAPHIC.*


Seems our 'biased govenment have it covered though Jan!
Religious Slaughterhouses are EXEMPT to BRITISH law!

but then thats the problem with the UK law isn;t it just!! As good old Mrs Dusty would say!
More Holes then a Colender!


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

According to Zainab(my friend),this method of death,is to kill the animal with respect.They prey for the animal,then slit its throat.
Apparantely:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I haven't read all the thread as I'm feeling lazy but I think halal is wrong, I don't condone any religious practices which condone animal cruelty


Freespirit, is Janice really you mum, I never knew


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

holly1 said:


> According to Zainab(my friend),this method of death,is to kill the animal with respect.They prey for the animal,then slit its throat.
> Apparantely:


Yep! thats right!!! and if the knife don't 'hit' the spot the animal dies in agony!
I hope I never meet your friend Zainab!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> Freespirit, is Janice really you mum, I never knew


*lol...yep im afraid Janice really is my mum. *


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *lol...yep im afraid Janice really is my mum. *


Why are you afraid would have thought it should have been the other way around


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Seems our 'biased govenment have it covered though Jan!
> Religious Slaughterhouses are EXEMPT to BRITISH law!
> 
> but then thats the problem with the UK law isn;t it just!! As good old Mrs Dusty would say!
> More Holes then a Colender!


*Ah but the trouble is going beyond that now with the fact we have just found out Halal is being used in the food chain in general regardless of beliefs. So it's now in schools, hospitals, fast food chains, pubs, ect, but no-one was intending on telling us. So where are our choices? I for one want no part in consuming Halal.*


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Why are you afraid would have thought it should have been the other way around


*lol...ok i'll re-word it...Janice wishes i wasn't her daughter but she can't get rid of me. *


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Ah but the trouble is going beyond that now with the fact we have just found out Halal is being used in the food chain in general regardless of beliefs. So it's now in schools, hospitals, fast food chains, pubs, ect, but no-one was intending on telling us. So where are our choices? I for one want no part in consuming Halal.*


Then we have to speak out! and that is the problem!!! no one listens to us! as I said before - we are fast becoming the minority!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I think the people who order for schools and restaurants and things just find it easier to do one for all, rather than mess about. They have no idea about the objections some might have, and I for one don't see why anywhere should prepare meat this way for the benefit of invaders. If they are going to do way one for all, it should be OUR way not theirs.

Someone once asked me why I pay more for free range chicken (quite a lot more in some places). Does it taste better, she says? Well, that is not the point at all is it and if someone served it to me I certainly wouldn't know the difference. These people wouldn't know the difference either.

Still, so long as they pray for it, that's okay!


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I think the people who order for schools and restaurants and things just find it easier to do one for all, rather than mess about. They have no idea about the objections some might have, and I for one don't see why anywhere should prepare meat this way for the benefit of invaders. If they are going to do way one for all, it should be OUR way not theirs.
> 
> Someone once asked me why I pay more for free range chicken (quite a lot more in some places). Does it taste better, she says? Well, that is not the point at all is it and if someone served it to me I certainly wouldn't know the difference. These people wouldn't know the difference either.
> 
> Still, so long as they pray for it, that's okay!


But! Religious Slaughterhouses are EXEMPT from UK laws! if we want it to change that we HAVE to lobby our MP's! It's down to us to stand up for ourselves and what we believe!!! we are already the 'underdog' in more ways then one! I have just tried to email my MP! but his website has been removed! but Monday Morning I shall be onto him first thing!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Then we have to speak out! and that is the problem!!! no one listens to us! as I said before - we are fast becoming the minority!


*Totally agree with you. There would have been a time when this country would have stood up and spoke out but now they cringe with fear, then moan about the way this country is going downhill. Im all for standing up for what's right and speaking out. Britain needs it's backbone back.*



newfiesmum said:


> I think the people who order for schools and restaurants and things just find it easier to do one for all, rather than mess about. They have no idea about the objections some might have, and I for one don't see why anywhere should prepare meat this way for the benefit of invaders. If they are going to do way one for all, it should be OUR way not theirs.
> 
> Someone once asked me why I pay more for free range chicken (quite a lot more in some places). Does it taste better, she says? Well, that is not the point at all is it and if someone served it to me I certainly wouldn't know the difference. These people wouldn't know the difference either.
> 
> Still, so long as they pray for it, that's okay!


*I agree but seemingly we have no say in the matter. Oh just for the record anyone who thinks buying organic meat is treated better...One of the gold awarded slaughterhouses in this country for organic meat is going through court proceedings at the moment for the abuse of the animals. Hence me being all for CCTV in all slaughterhouses.*


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

Just reading through this thread has made me feel sick 

I posted the news link on my fb and someone commented that Nando's serve halal.... to which I replied 'I'll ask where ever I go, and if they serve halal then I'll go elsewhere'...

BUT... Why should I, in my own country, be forced to eat 'elsewhere'??????? 



More I think about it, the more my blood boils. 

Isn't there a petition about it - a fb group - anything?????


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok folks, I am about to start a petition to Downing Street to get these slaughterhouses closed. Do you think there is a hope in hell? Anyway, I need a one word title: Any suggestions? Find me a title and we can get going.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

lozb said:


> Just reading through this thread has made me feel sick
> 
> I posted the news link on my fb and someone commented that Nando's serve halal.... to which I replied 'I'll ask where ever I go, and if they serve halal then I'll go elsewhere'...
> 
> ...


Don't want to go off track! but to me there is only one way to go! To the polititcal party that has our best interests at heart! Shame they are so extreme!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

lozb said:


> Just reading through this thread has made me feel sick
> 
> I posted the news link on my fb and someone commented that Nando's serve halal.... to which I replied 'I'll ask where ever I go, and if they serve halal then I'll go elsewhere'...
> 
> ...


*Yes i believe there are petitions going round on facebook. *


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Ok folks, I am about to start a petition to Downing Street to get these slaughterhouses closed. Do you think there is a hope in hell? Anyway, I need a one word title: Any suggestions? Find me a title and we can get going.


*Don't think id be able to write the title on here without getting banned...lol 
*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Don't think id be able to write the title on here without getting banned...lol
> *


You lost your spirit girl! go on!!! I dare ya!:thumbup:


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Write to your MP...Protest...Riot...It won't make one iota of difference for one reason...*2.4 MILLION MUSLIM VOTES*


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> You lost your spirit girl! go on!!! I dare ya!:thumbup:


*Halal how are you?...now F**k off :lol::lol:

How's that for a title? *


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Halal how are you?...now F**k off :lol::lol:
> 
> How's that for a title? *


Too long! It has to be one word for some daft reason.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Halal how are you?...now F**k off :lol::lol:
> 
> How's that for a title? *


don't think they would take that seriously somehow
How about!
Halal Goodbye - to my vote!


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## sweetice2010 (Aug 13, 2010)

Everyone ought to see YouTube - Zeitgeist - The Movie: Federal Reserve (Part 1 of 5) - Zeigeist the movie - It's a real eye opener and more people need to know about it as it's all happening as we speak! A few other recommends is Lord of War which is a movie you can buy it for like £3 of play.com - Definately worth the £3! Real eye opener - Recommend Zeitgeist to your pals & get the word out about it !! We need to take a stance!!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Too long! It has to be one word for some daft reason.


*lol...so it was ok on every other count though? :lol:
One word?....ooh ya got me there.*


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Halal how are you?...now F**k off :lol::lol:
> 
> How's that for a title? *


:thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:

That deserves rep


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

poohdog said:


> Write to your MP...Protest...Riot...It won't make one iota of difference for one reason...*2.4 MILLION MUSLIM VOTES*


Is that all? p*ss in the ocean! Shame they ever were allowed though!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Well, that was a waste of time. It seems the e-petition service has been suspended because of the new administration. Waiting to decide whether to continue it. Perhaps they have been reading this thread. Ok tomorrow we all write to our MPs. Won't do any good, but hey....it is worth a try!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> How about!
> Halal Goodbye - to my vote!


*Sounds good to me. *



sweetice2010 said:


> Everyone ought to see YouTube - Zeitgeist - The Movie: Federal Reserve (Part 1 of 5) - Zeigeist the movie - It's a real eye opener and more people need to know about it as it's all happening as we speak! A few other recommends is Lord of War which is a movie you can buy it for like £3 of play.com - Definately worth the £3! Real eye opener - Recommend Zeitgeist to your pals & get the word out about it !! We need to take a stance!!


*Great documentary ive seen that, there's quite a few places online where you can view the complete film. I must add not everything is believable in it in my opinion but there's alot of truth and information in it. *



MissShelley said:


> :thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:
> 
> That deserves rep


*lol...Is Ony naughty  :lol: *


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Well, that was a waste of time. It seems the e-petition service has been suspended because of the new administration. Waiting to decide whether to continue it. Perhaps they have been reading this thread. Ok tomorrow we all write to our MPs. Won't do any good, but hey....it is worth a try!


*If you're on Facebook, that is the way forward as far as getting names to petitions. Either look for one that's already going or start a new page up...only takes ten minutes. *


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## sweetice2010 (Aug 13, 2010)

martinlewislegend said:


> Exactly! The racist card is played waaaaay too often, to avoid discussing important issues. And so the animals continue to suffer
> 
> x


 & JANICE199

That's the sad thing about this place these days everything is 'you wont let us do it cause i am muslim' - it's bullcrap & the government is allowing it all to happen.

it's all an inside job - same way 9/11 was a inside job - Check out Zeitgeist the movie its on Youtube - Its definately worth a watch & a REAL eye opener - Theres currently Zeitgeist & second one is Zeitgeist - Addendum - the third one is out next month - cant wait The Zeitgeist Film Series Gateway | Zeitgeist: The Movie, Zeitgeist: Addendum, Zeitgeist Moving Forward is the official website for it.

Also once you check out Zeitgeist check out something called HAARP on youtube YouTube - haarp - i always use to think why on earth were 'natural disasters' always taking place in countries that can sometimes never recover from the disasters - HAARP has put it into context to me. Scary thought but the government is bullcrap and people REALLY need to open their eyes cause its almost too late


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

sweetice2010 said:


> & JANICE199
> 
> That's the sad thing about this place these days everything is 'you wont let us do it cause i am muslim' - it's bullcrap & the government is allowing it all to happen.
> 
> ...


I have been saying it is 'to late' for the UK for five years now! trouble is no-one ever listens to me

would look at these links!! but is there anything 'cruel' in them?


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I have been saying it is 'to late' for the UK for five years now! trouble is no-one ever listens to me
> 
> would look at these links!! but is there anything 'cruel' in them?


*Those links given don't show cruelty they are basically about government, religion, etc
Some stuff is a little too far fetched in my opinion but the stuff regarding the government and religion Zeitgeist makes some valid points and can be quite informative. It won't be to everyones liking but nothing ever is i guess.*


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

sweetice2010 said:


> & JANICE199
> 
> i always use to think why on earth were 'natural disasters' always taking place in countries that can sometimes never recover from the disasters -


Because they happen to be where the plates of the Earths crust are most vulnerable to movement.

I wouldn't have though earthquakes in Japan...Mt.St.Helens eruption and the hurricane that hit New Orleans could be classed as happening in the third world.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *If you're on Facebook, that is the way forward as far as getting names to petitions. Either look for one that's already going or start a new page up...only takes ten minutes. *


I will have a look, but I have to admit I find Facebook unnecessarily complicated sometimes. Where will I find a petition? I have enough trouble finding my list of "friends" (so I can delete the ones I don't like any more!)


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I will have a look, but I have to admit I find Facebook unnecessarily complicated sometimes. Where will I find a petition? I have enough trouble finding my list of "friends" (so I can delete the ones I don't like any more!)


*I'll try see if i can find any petitions on Facebook for you about Halal and if i find any, i'll post link on here. *


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

Outlaw serving/selling Halal meat to unwitting members of the public | Facebook

This fb page seems to fit the bill... you think?


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

lozb said:


> Outlaw serving/selling Halal meat to unwitting members of the public | Facebook
> 
> This fb page seems to fit the bill... you think?


*Or this one that has more members. 

Welcome to Facebook*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *lol...ok i'll re-word it...Janice wishes i wasn't her daughter but she can't get rid of me. *


*Nope i'm proud your my daughter.xxxx Keep up the good work please as i'm watching the mag.7 on telly. bb later.*


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Or this one that has more members.
> 
> Welcome to Facebook*


Thanks.... joined....


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Yes, that is the one. I have signed it and am sending it on to all my friends and family. Get signing!!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Nope i'm proud your my daughter.xxxx Keep up the good work please as i'm watching the mag.7 on telly. bb later.*


*Aww shucks...you almost made me blush ya bugger...lol 
That's it, leave me in the midst of it all...lol...xxxx*



lozb said:


> Thanks.... joined....


*Great....me too. 
If i come across any actual petition sites with more members i'll let you know. Meanwhile, best way to drum up support is share that link on your profile page on Facebook, then people on your friends list will pass it around to their friends, etc..*


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

*For those not on Facebook here is a petition to sign if you're against religious slaughter in the UK.

BAN RELIGIOUS SLAUGHTER IN UK Petition

*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks for the link Ony!
Signed! sealed and delivered!!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Thanks for the link Ony!
> Signed! sealed and delivered!!


*You're welcome....Glad you signed..xx *


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

What do you make of this:

Do you know the difference between an halal slaughter and a &#039;normal&#039; one? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

A woman I've known for years (not seen her for years but nm) put it on my link to the fb group...... I'm not planning on getting into an 'argument' with her about it but she's counter-acted the group with this answer from yahoo.

Any comments anyone?

(btw, my laptop is very slow... so am struggling to switch between pages, takes forever, so if I'm late commenting back it's either cos I'm stuck between pages or have re-booted the blumming laptop!)


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Ok folks, I am about to start a petition to Downing Street to get these slaughterhouses closed. Do you think there is a hope in hell? Anyway, I need a one word title: Any suggestions? Find me a title and we can get going.


:thumbup: lets go for it theres been enough hot air blown about on here today, we should blow em away.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

lozb said:


> What do you make of this:
> 
> Do you know the difference between an halal slaughter and a 'normal' one? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers
> 
> ...


*I saw her post that link 
Right....Our methods state that the animal must be stunned so that within 15 seconds of having it's throat cut it is not supposed to feel it.
Halal prefer to do it without the pre-stunning.
There are plenty of articles from vets and animal welfare people that clearly state that pre-stunning causes far less, if any pain while the slaughter part takes place. Whereas Halal can suffer for maybe a couple of minutes or more. *


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Or this one that has more members.
> 
> Welcome to Facebook*


*Signed.:thumbup:*


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Signed.:thumbup:*


*Good on ya...xxxx  *


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

evil happens everyday i have seen hunters kill animals by cutting there throats sighning a petition wont change anything


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

lozb said:


> What do you make of this:
> 
> Do you know the difference between an halal slaughter and a 'normal' one? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers
> 
> ...


It was certainly interesting and news to me that some Muslims do permit pre-stunning. I googled this and there does seem to be some truth in that assertion, though of course I also read that the more hardline adherents to the religion don't accept pre-stunning. I'd be interested to know how common the practice of pre-stunning is, though.

I also read the comment by a Muslim poster about research into the pain inflicted by ritual slaughter versus the Western method, asserting that ritual slaughter is less painful. It's hard to believe. I guess that it also presumes that the killing is carried out very swiftly by a skilled person making a single cut to the neck. A while ago I saw some internet footage of ritual slaughter and it was not pretty. The poor animals were penned in together, being chased around and not killed cleanly.


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## NoSpecialFeaturesHere (Nov 23, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *For those not on Facebook here is a petition to sign if you're against religious slaughter in the UK.
> 
> BAN RELIGIOUS SLAUGHTER IN UK Petition
> 
> *


Thanks for the linky, I signed also.

I respect that people have beliefs and that they have traditions, and even though I am not a religious person myself I'm happy for people to do anything they want to do for whatever reason, however odd it may seem to me - *except for when it hurts others*. Barbaric cruelty in the name of religion is wrong and it makes me sick. The thought of any living creature frightened or in pain is unbearable to me, and it's so hard a concept for me that others don't have that same tightening in their chest when they see any kind of suffering. And to actually be able to cause it and not care? I will never understand that.

Sad sad.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

borderer said:


> evil happens everyday i have seen hunters kill animals by cutting there throats sighning a petition wont change anything


I saw that too once, made me feel sick


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

borderer said:


> evil happens everyday i have seen hunters kill animals by cutting there throats sighning a petition wont change anything


But how do the hunters catch their pray Bordie? Either they have been shot (by a wanna be who can't shoot straight) or some other way whereby the pray is suffering! Hence the hunstman slits their throats (or breaks their necks) to prevent any further suffering!! AND! I have to say this Bordie but of the men who I know who shoot their ain;t a cruel one amongst them! ( as far as cruelty goes - of course many will see shooting as cruel ) NOT ONE would see an animal suffer!
What we are on about here - is the 'forced' feeing of halal meat! These religious slaugherhouses are exempt from BRITISH laws regarding the slaugher of animals!! Thought you may had been in support of this!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

borderer said:


> evil happens everyday i have seen hunters kill animals by cutting there throats sighning a petition wont change anything


And that makes it ok? people fight wars everyday but that doesn't mean i have to agree with it.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

rona said:


> I saw that too once, made me feel sick


yes i have seen it rona when its throat is cut the animal will pass out with no pain it will jump and jerk about but it is dead.it just so messy thats why people get upset


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

borderer said:


> yes i have seen it rona when its throat is cut the animal will pass out with no pain it will jump and jerk about but it is dead.it just so messy thats why people get upset


They actually prefer to break their necks bordie!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Given the choice who would prefer to have an operation with or without anaesthetic?


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> Given the choice who would prefer to have an operation with or without anaesthetic?


there are DEFINATELY some that should NOT even be offered anesthetic!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

Lulu's owner said:


> It was certainly interesting and news to me that some Muslims do permit pre-stunning. I googled this and there does seem to be some truth in that assertion, though of course I also read that the more hardline adherents to the religion don't accept pre-stunning. I'd be interested to know how common the practice of pre-stunning is, though.
> 
> I also read the comment by a Muslim poster about research into the pain inflicted by ritual slaughter versus the Western method, asserting that ritual slaughter is less painful. It's hard to believe. I guess that it also presumes that the killing is carried out very swiftly by a skilled person making a single cut to the neck. A while ago I saw some internet footage of ritual slaughter and it was not pretty. The poor animals were penned in together, being chased around and not killed cleanly.





NoSpecialFeaturesHere said:


> Thanks for the linky, I signed also.
> 
> I respect that people have beliefs and that they have traditions, and even though I am not a religious person myself I'm happy for people to do anything they want to do for whatever reason, however odd it may seem to me - *except for when it hurts others*. Barbaric cruelty in the name of religion is wrong and it makes me sick. The thought of any living creature frightened or in pain is unbearable to me, and it's so hard a concept for me that others don't have that same tightening in their chest when they see any kind of suffering. And to actually be able to cause it and not care? I will never understand that.
> 
> Sad sad.


*Glad to see you sign 

Here's a couple of links to show where and why people consider Halal to be more painful. Needless to say those that eat Halal claim their way is less painful for the animal.

BBC NEWS | UK | Halal and Kosher slaughter 'must end'

Letter: Halal and welfare | Life and style | The Guardian

Gavin Orland » The cruelty of Kosher and Halal killing*


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

martinlewislegend said:


> Can I just ask, do any of you on this thread buy your meat from Tesco or Asda?
> For them to provide your meat so cheap, the animals are kept in horrific/cramp conditions and fed awful rubbish food.
> Double standards? Dare I say?


I have gone through 8 pages of this thread, and this is the quote I totally agree with.

The parts of this thread that I have read in most part is quite racist in my opinion! 
We are a free country, we live our lives the way we want, why not others, in what they truly believe, in what they have been brought up to believe. 
I am not saying I agree in the way animals are killed for hala meat or not, we treat our animals disgracefully, animals we eat and animals we dont... we are not a perfect religion, by no means is any religion, who are the people here to critise.

Michelle


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> Given the choice who would prefer to have an operation with or without anaesthetic?


I suppose the scientific argument is about whether or not the process of stunning is more or less painful than swift throat-cutting (and stunning isn't anaesthesia). My gut feeling is that stunning is preferable but the research referred to in the link above appears to contradict that. Of course, research is not always objective and it tends to reach the conclusions that suit the people funding it, so I'd be interested to know who did pay for that particular piece of work. Don't get me wrong, I am utterly opposed to ritual slaughter but I also think it's important to be rational and examine the arguments posed by the opposition.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

shellyann1971 said:


> I have gone through 8 pages of this thread, and this is the quote I totally agree with.
> 
> The parts of this thread that I have read in most part is quite racist in my opinion!
> We are a free country, we live our lives the way we want, why not others, in what they truly believe, in what they have been brought up to believe.
> ...


*I happen to be one of many that is campaigning for better conditions and cctv in all slaughterhouses. I agree our own standards have alot to answer for but i cannot condone Halal because it causes even more suffering to the animal. This has nothing to do with race infact not even religion when you look into their beliefs which state they don't have to eat Halal meat. So by banning it, surely it's a win, win situation?*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I feel very very strongly about this one! call it predudice if you like! but in my small world its about some being 'allowed' to live by different rules to others! And us!! in OUR own country having to accpet that! then sorry! but thats a big no no to me! And the sooner them in chare realize that we are not going to be pushovers any longer the better!
> But you know what Bordie? I think we are to late!


far to late


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

Lulu's owner said:


> By that reasoning, the only people who can have a view on murder are those who have committed it themselves.


we are not just talking murder! but mass murder And as for being fed it unbeknowingly! sorry! but we have to draw the line somewhere!
This was the end of the line for me!
I just joined the *&%


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *[/COLOR]I happen to be one of many that is campaigning for better conditions and cctv in all slaughterhouses. I agree our own standards have alot to answer for but i cannot condone Halal because it causes even more suffering to the animal. This has nothing to do with race infact not even religion when you look into their beliefs which state they don't have to eat Halal meat. So by banning it, surely it's a win, win situation?*


but look how we british treat our animals for years and years before they die! 
look how many animals we kill in saughters houses that have had a terrible life! look how much meat we kill and we dont eat, the animals lived badly and died to be thrown out! in most cases of Hala meat, it is not killed unless it is eaten... no waste

Michelle


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> but look how we british treat our animals for years and years before they die!
> look how many animals we kill in saughters houses that have had a terrible life! look how much meat we kill and we dont eat, the animals lived badly and died to be thrown out! in most cases of Hala meat, it is not killed unless it is eaten... no waste
> 
> Michelle


when in Rome Sweetheart! when in Rome!
I have been in India also!


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> we are not just talking murder! but mass murder And as for being fed it unbeknowingly! sorry! but we have to draw the line somewhere!
> This was the end of the line for me!
> I just joined the BNP!


Bit of a non sequitur there! I wasn't commenting about halal meat (which I oppose vehemently), I was referring to faulty logic by another poster.

By joining the BNP, unfortunately it seems to me that you're just adding fuel to the notion held by some people that opposiition to ritual slaughter is merely a form of racism. I don't think that's very helpful to the cause.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *[/COLOR]I happen to be one of many that is campaigning for better conditions and cctv in all slaughterhouses. I agree our own standards have alot to answer for but i cannot condone Halal because it causes even more suffering to the animal. This has nothing to do with race infact not even religion when you look into their beliefs which state they don't have to eat Halal meat. So by banning it, surely it's a win, win situation?*


Good on you Ony! nice move! maybe you can tell us more about it on another thread!


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> when in Rome Sweetheart! when in Rome!
> I have been in India also!


I am sorry but what type of answer is this?

maybe you cant comment properly on my comment , becuase you know this country is just as bad.

Michelle


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> The parts of this thread that I have read in most part is quite racist in my opinion!


There is nothing racist about objecting to English laws being broken for the sake of immigrants. It would not be allowed in any other country, so why here? So we go off to a moslem country and decide that as christians we should be allowed to build a church? Tough! Not allowed.

Nobody objects to their religious beliefs, not to their mosques or their way of life if it suits them, but when it comes to breaking OUR laws to accommodate them, that is just going too far!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> we are not just talking murder! but mass murder And as for being fed it unbeknowingly! sorry! but we have to draw the line somewhere!
> This was the end of the line for me!
> I just joined the *&%


*That's exactly it...the fact we are not being given a choice in our own damn country. How on earth can that be right?*



shellyann1971 said:


> but look how we british treat our animals for years and years before they die!
> look how many animals we kill in saughters houses that have had a terrible life! look how much meat we kill and we dont eat, the animals lived badly and died to be thrown out! in most cases of Hala meat, it is not killed unless it is eaten... no waste
> 
> Michelle


*As ive just stated im far from happy with our own treatment of animals in this country but does that mean it's ok to let others suffer?...no.
As for no waste regarding Halal i find it hard to believe in this day and age that any of us in this country are not guilty of wasting food/meat albeit unintentionally when it is bought. That said, it is not the point in question here....We are being fed through our food chain meat that has been slaughtered in a way most of the country would find appalling and we have not even been informed of it. Seems the media got the news to us rather than the government. Either way, that form of slaughter is not acceptable to most of us and we have not been given the choice. We have rights too.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> There is nothing racist about objecting to English laws being broken for the sake of immigrants. It would not be allowed in any other country, so why here? So we go off to a moslem country and decide that as christians we should be allowed to build a church? Tough! Not allowed.
> 
> Nobody objects to their religious beliefs, not to their mosques or their way of life if it suits them, but when it comes to breaking OUR laws to accommodate them, that is just going too far!


I agree and i also think we made them far too comfortable, far too quick when they came over here and look where its got us(and our animals) all its done is given them the green light to take over and by god have they taken over.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> I am sorry but what type of answer is this?
> 
> maybe you cant comment properly on my comment , becuase you know this country is just as bad.
> 
> Michelle


You spelt becuae wrong!
This country! Our Country! My country! Sadly is no longer!

what exactly do you mean by the way?
DT


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## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

Just a thought , but i wonder how many people on here have been in one of our slaughter houses or killed any animal or bird for the meat that they eat .


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> I have gone through 8 pages of this thread, and this is the quote I totally agree with.
> 
> The parts of this thread that I have read in most part is quite racist in my opinion!
> *We are a free country, we live our lives the way we want, why not others, in what they truly believe, in what they have been brought up to believe.
> ...


If we are a free country then why are we not given the freedom of choice????? How many people have unwittingly eaten the stuff and not known, because we expect the meat that we eat to have been killed humanely.... Is it fair that school are serving up halal meat???? can you imagine the outcry if we started secretly serving sausages to muslim children?? see they should be allowed to choose as we should.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

MissShelley said:


> If we are a free country then why are we not given the freedom of choice????? How many people have unwittingly eaten the stuff and not known, because we expect the meat that we eat to have been killed humanely.... Is it fair that school are serving up halal meat???? can you imagine the outcry if we started secretly serving sausages to muslim children?? see they should be allowed to choose as we should.


*Exactly...totally agree. *


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

Hobo
Yep! I have been to a slaugherhouse - but it was thirty years ago! and I cried! And yep! I have eaten (or OH is - I am sort of going veggie) and am eating this week (rabbit) that was killed not by me personally but by our friend! OH does bring back birds (an hangs em at the bad door) NO!!! I won't eat them! he dresses them and freezes them! Then I give em the dogs!!


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## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Hobo
> Yep! I have been to a slaugherhouse - but it was thirty years ago! and I cried! And yep! I have eaten (or OH is - I am sort of going veggie) and am eating this week (rabbit) that was killed not by me personally but by our friend! OH does bring back birds (an hangs em at the bad door) NO!!! I won't eat them! he dresses them and freezes them! Then I give em the dogs!!


I know a few on here live in the real world , but so many do not have a clue what goes on , and jump in on any thread where they can slag anyone or any thing off.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Has anyone actually looked at studies conducted regarding methods of slaughter & checked facts rather than just kicking off about this method?

Although british slaughte houses may by law have to adhere to guidelines I don't believe this always happens as has been demonstrated by awful stoies in the press (I think the last one I read was at a Bernard Matthews farm suprise, suprise!).

Certain studies I've read seem to suggest that for some animals halal slaughter may be more humane. 

Although I object to any animal being treated badly I think I would concern myself far more with the millions of factory farmed animals & the appalling conditions they are subjected to for the months that they are alive simply becuase we as a nation want to have cheap meat on our plates for every meal.


----------



## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

hobo99 said:


> I know a few on here live in the real world , but so many do not have a clue what goes on , and jump in on any thread where they can slag anyone or any thing off.


*To be fair, i went to a slaughterhouse as a kid but believed what i was told at the time....Since the internet has come about the information and proof of what really goes on has now become apparant. Like the conditions in which we treat animals in the slaughterhouses...This information is all coming to light now. *


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Although I object to any animal being treated badly I think I would concern myself far more with the millions of factory farmed animals & the appalling conditions they are subjected to for the months that they are alive simply becuase we as a nation want to have cheap meat on our plates for every meal.


Don't think the farming is the question here Cleo:scared:
T'is the fact that Hatal meat being slaughtered in religious slaughterhouses is except from UK laws! Now there's a suprise
DT


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Has anyone actually looked at studies conducted regarding methods of slaughter & checked facts rather than just kicking off about this method?
> 
> Although british slaughte houses may by law have to adhere to guidelines I don't believe this always happens as has been demonstrated by awful stoies in the press (I think the last one I read was at a Bernard Matthews farm suprise, suprise!).
> 
> ...


see most people on this thread would rather attack another method, and try and bring a law, instead of correcting our own animals issues. once we have sorted out our own animals issues then we can pull others down for theres

Michelle


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> Has anyone actually looked at studies conducted regarding methods of slaughter & checked facts rather than just kicking off about this method?
> 
> Although british slaughte houses may by law have to adhere to guidelines I don't believe this always happens as has been demonstrated by awful stoies in the press (I think the last one I read was at a Bernard Matthews farm suprise, suprise!).
> 
> ...


*The main gripe for this particular thread is the fact that we have not been given a choice. It has been sneakly slipped in under our noses. 
As for the latest case regarding bad practices in our own slaughterhouses, that is going through the courts at the moment with one of the country's leading organic meat slaughterhouse which with cctv secretly installed showed them abusing the animals prior to slaughter. Totally unnacceptable. *


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> If we are a free country then why are we not given the freedom of choice????? How many people have unwittingly eaten the stuff and not known, because we expect the meat that we eat to have been killed humanely.... Is it fair that school are serving up halal meat???? can you imagine the outcry if we started secretly serving sausages to muslim children?? see they should be allowed to choose as we should.


You are wrong here

Why cant schools serve Halal meat? the schools that are likely to serve halal meat will be muslim schools, so if you and I send out child to a muslim school, that is what we are to expect.

Michelle.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

shellyann1971 said:


> see most people on this thread would rather attack another method, and try and bring a law, instead of correcting our own animals issues. once we have sorted out our own animals issues then we can pull others down for theres
> 
> Michelle


*Not true....I have seen Halal meat being slaughtered in a way which totally against their beliefs and i find this disgusting and disrespectful to their beliefs. My personal view is i don't agree with Halal as most in this country so it's bound to cause upset among us when we see it being forced upon us.*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

My problem is more with animal suffering so if halal slaughter was more humane I couldn't give a stuff tbh!!!


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> see most people on this thread would rather attack another method, and try and bring a law, instead of correcting our own animals issues. once we have sorted out our own animals issues then we can pull others down for theres
> 
> Michelle


i don't think any of us have ever attacked other methods! Most of us are against battery farming, Danish bacon etc etc We prefer to buy BRITISH!
The topic here is the slaugher of meat! the U< slaughterhouses have strict rules to adhere to! I will be the first to agree that these are not always adhered to and need monitioring! but again! that is not the topic!


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

shellyann1971 said:


> You are wrong here
> 
> Why cant schools serve Halal meat? the schools that are likely to serve halal meat will be muslim schools, so if you and I send out child to a muslim school, that is what we are to expect.
> 
> Michelle.


Harrow is going all-Halal and is not 100% Muslim last time I was there.

Parents' fury at town hall plans for halal-only menus in schools | Mail Online


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

shellyann1971 said:


> You are wrong here
> 
> Why cant schools serve Halal meat? the schools that are likely to serve halal meat will be muslim schools, so if you and I send out child to a muslim school, that is what we are to expect.
> 
> Michelle.


*If you saw the first post on here with that news article you would see this is not the case. It is now being served to all of us in a number of ways without our consent or regardless of our beliefs.*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> My problem is more with animal suffering so if halal slaughter was more humane I couldn't give a stuff tbh!!!


No slaughter is less painful Cleo! NONE!
I am all for the game bird as it happens! That had led a reletivly happy life, free range, good food and a quick end! Still sad though as it is a life!
And today!!! - I took the first step to becoming veggie! Not that I shall ever convince the OH But if it saves just one animal inmy lifetime then it is worth it!
DT


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> You are wrong here
> 
> Why cant schools serve Halal meat? the schools that are likely to serve halal meat will be muslim schools, so if you and I send out child to a muslim school, that is what we are to expect.
> 
> Michelle.


We are not talking about Muslim schools; is there such a thing? Most muslim children attend our schools alongside our own children, but halal meat is being provided to all just to appease them.


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> You are wrong here
> 
> Why cant schools serve Halal meat? the schools that are likely to serve halal meat will be muslim schools, so if you and I send out child to a muslim school, that is what we are to expect.
> 
> Michelle.


I think if schools were to offer halal meat along side other meat options then it wouldn't be such a problem - *if *the parents were told about it and therefore had a *choice*.
I've been told tonight that Nando's serve halal meat - no notice of it. Where's the choice there? If the meat I'm eating has been slaughtered in a way which is in a way which goes against the 'general' rules of this country then I think I've a right to know about it. This smacks of the minority rules (which have their place) taking over the majority of the population - doesn't sit well with me at all.

A friend put it well on a facebook post of mine: 'If you had to die - would you rather be shot or have your throat slit?'


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> We are not talking about Muslim schools; is there such a thing? Most muslim children attend our schools alongside our own children, but halal meat is being provided to all just to appease them.


arnt we a good understanding country

that is nice

Michelle


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> You are wrong here
> 
> Why cant schools serve Halal meat? the schools that are likely to serve halal meat will be muslim schools, so if you and I send out child to a muslim school, that is what we are to expect.
> 
> Michelle.


so what you are saying is that you agree with animals being slaughtered by having it's throat cut! is that it do you?


----------



## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

shellyann1971 said:


> arnt we a good understanding country
> 
> that is nice
> 
> Michelle


*What's with the patronising reply to a perfectly sensible response? *


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> arnt we a good understanding country
> 
> that is nice
> 
> Michelle


Yes, too bloody understanding!


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> arnt we a good understanding country
> 
> that is nice
> 
> Michelle


It is the inhabitants that make it NOT such an understanding country!
Hence the rep blob! Seeing as you seem to like the colour of blood thought I would give you some!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> It is the inhabitants that make it NOT such an understanding country!
> Hence the rep blob! Seeing as you seem to like the colour of blood thought I would give you some!


*lol...That was to the point and made me laugh. :lol:*


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I would really like that BUT I don't eat vegetables - can't stand them! I eat eggs, cheese, mushrooms, but have taken to eaten lots of free range chicken because you can never be sure about beef and lamb and don't fancy eating lamb with all the little baby ones about.


You can blend veg into soups and sauces if you don't like the taste, same as people do to fool toddlers into eating them! Beans and pulses are good sources of guilt-free protein by the way.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't get some posts on here.... there's talk of not wanting to eat halal meat because of the inhumane way the animals are slaughtered & complaints that chicken fast food outlets are using this meat ...... these outlets are selling chickens that have been mass produced & reared in dreadful conditons anway. 

If you truly cared about animal welfare then you would avoid eating at these places.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

shellyann1971 said:


> You are wrong here
> 
> Why cant schools serve Halal meat? the schools that are likely to serve halal meat will be muslim schools, so if you and I send out child to a muslim school, that is what we are to expect.
> 
> Michelle.


There is no such thing as a Muslim school.....


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> I don't get some posts on here.... there's talk of not wanting to eat halal meat because of the inhumane way the animals are slaughtered & complaints that chicken fast food outlets are using this meat ...... these outlets are selling chickens that have been mass produced & reared in dreadful conditons anway.
> 
> If you truly cared about animal welfare then you would avoid eating at these places.


I agree about the avoiding these places - I will never, ever eat at a 'fast food' place again.... rather come home and make my own burgers/fries...


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> so what you are saying is that you agree with animals being slaughtered by having it's throat cut! is that it do you?


I agree in how people believe they should kill there meat.

Michelle


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *What's with the patronising reply to a perfectly sensible response? *


it was a serious reply, actually

Michelle


----------



## lozb (May 31, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> I agree in how people believe they should kill there meat.
> 
> Michelle


 It makes me sad Michelle. It's okay for animals to suffer - even more than they do already - in the name of religion - when it's been said already that it's not even necessary, according to the said religion.
Why not just stop it altogether? 
What's the point of it????????


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Not got time to read whole thread BUT halal killing is supposed to be te only one stating the animal being killed must never have witnessed another animals slaughter? Some shock the animals before death too like abattoirs do I don't think it's against their religion to do so and so many do..?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> I agree in how people believe they should kill there meat.
> 
> Michelle


Perhaps you should go look up how dogs are killed for food in Korea, then tell us you agree with their beliefs. I would hope if they tried THAT in England it would never be allowed.


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

lozb said:


> It makes me sad Michelle. It's okay for animals to suffer - even more than they do already - in the name of religion - when it's been said already that it's not even necessary, according to the said religion.
> Why not just stop it altogether?
> What's the point of it????????


no its not ok for a animals to suffer, I hate to see animals suffer, that is why I will watch nothing on tv about it, and I havent seen the links on this post,I know what goes on, and that is enough for me, animals suffer in all religions, but my point is , that when a person is brought up to believe something , who are you and I to disrespect that? its not so black and white

We were brought up that animals , feel pain, are sensitive, and need our love and attention... just like I do with my animals at home, but so many people are brought up to believe that animals are just meat, they dont feel pain etc... once you are taught to believe something , that is what you believe, and you believe what you do is correct, and nothing bad in what you do.

Michelle


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> no its not ok for a animals to suffer, I hate to see animals suffer, that is why I will watch nothing on tv about it, and I havent seen the links on this post,I know what goes on, and that is enough for me, animals suffer in all religions, but my point is , that when a person is brought up to believe something , who are you and I to disrespect that? its not so black and white
> 
> We were brought up that animals , feel pain, are sensitive, and need our love and attention... just like I do with my animals at home, but so many people are brought up to believe that animals are just meat, they dont feel pain etc... once you are taught to believe something , that is what you believe, and you believe what you do is correct, and nothing bad in what you do.
> 
> Michelle


Agreed - people/cultures are brought up with different perspectives on animal welfare.
In this country, the people and our culture have a respect for animal welfare - given, it's not always kept up to a standard which we'd prefer but as a culture, we would hope that animals are given respect, even in slaughter.

Which is what we're talking about - this country, our beliefs, our culture. Why is it right that *any* other culture/beliefs are allowed to become embedded into our way of life (so to speak) without our knowledge?

ETA: IE - specifically - halal meat being sold/served without our knowledge. This is not our cultural beliefs, not how we, as a county, agree to slaughter our animals for food.


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

lozb said:


> Agreed - people/cultures are brought up with different perspectives on animal welfare.
> In this country, the people and our culture have a respect for animal welfare - given, it's not always kept up to a standard which we'd prefer but as a culture, we would hope that animals are given respect, even in slaughter.
> 
> Which is what we're talking about - this country, our beliefs, our culture. Why is it right that *any* other culture/beliefs are allowed to become embedded into our way of life (so to speak) without our knowledge?
> ...


a awful lot more happens without our knowledge..

I for one am happy to live in a multi cultural country, and to learn and understand others way of life on my doorstep, and for my daughter to learn, the bad and the good, its apart of life.

Michelle


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

shellyann1971 said:


> a awful lot more happens without our knowledge..
> 
> I for one am happy to live in a multi cultural country, and to learn and understand others way of life on my doorstep, and for my daughter to learn, the bad and the good, its apart of life.
> 
> Michelle


but the whole point of this thread is we are NOT being told...

so how can you learn from that?


----------



## lozb (May 31, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> a awful lot more happens without our knowledge..
> 
> I for one am happy to live in a multi cultural country, and to learn and understand others way of life on my doorstep, and for my daughter to learn, the bad and the good, its apart of life.
> 
> Michelle


multi-cultural works for me - living side by side with other cultures teaches us lots - works in lots of countries all over the world (and in some does not work at all......)

However, I do not want the bad - the totally unecessary painful death of animals, to be in THIS country. I do not want that to be a part of my life, or that of my daughters.

If the burger eaten by whoever has been slaughtered to honor a religious stance which is totally unecessary then that is WRONG. The animal has suffered for NO reason. There is NO justifying that. At All.


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Not got time to read whole thread BUT halal killing is supposed to be te only one stating the animal being killed must never have witnessed another animals slaughter? Some shock the animals before death too like abattoirs do I don't think it's against their religion to do so and so many do..?


*I must admit i would rather we adopted that particular idea of other animals not witnessing the slaughter.*



newfiesmum said:


> Perhaps you should go look up how dogs are killed for food in Korea, then tell us you agree with their beliefs. I would hope if they tried THAT in England it would never be allowed.


*I agree...totally horrific to see the way they treat the animals.*



lozb said:


> Agreed - people/cultures are brought up with different perspectives on animal welfare.
> In this country, the people and our culture have a respect for animal welfare - given, it's not always kept up to a standard which we'd prefer but as a culture, we would hope that animals are given respect, even in slaughter.
> 
> Which is what we're talking about - this country, our beliefs, our culture. Why is it right that *any* other culture/beliefs are allowed to become embedded into our way of life (so to speak) without our knowledge?
> ...


*Exactly the point of this thread....The fact we are being served this Halal meat without our knowledge or consent.*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

lozb said:


> multi-cultural works for me - living side by side with other cultures teaches us lots - works in lots of countries all over the world (and in some does not work at all......)
> 
> However, I do not want the bad - the totally unecessary painful death of animals, to be in THIS country. I do not want that to be a part of my life, or that of my daughters.
> 
> If the burger eaten by whoever has been slaughtered to honor a religious stance which is totally unecessary then that is WRONG. The animal has suffered for NO reason. There is NO justifying that. At All.


animals dont suffer when there throats are cut


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> a awful lot more happens without our knowledge..
> 
> I for one am happy to live in a multi cultural country, and to learn and understand others way of life on my doorstep, and for my daughter to learn, the bad and the good, its apart of life.
> 
> Michelle


well thats good for you!
But I unfortunately am not! I have no problem with other nationalities joining us on 'OUR ISLAND, but I would like to think that they would respect us and our way of life! AND if that means that I dont want to read of animals having their throats cut and then being fed into society then I nor anyone else should not have too!!

I dont go to Saudi and drink alcohol! 
Otherwise I would expect a lashing!

Our government needs to stand up and pay some respect ! many of us have forefathers in the cemetries for standing up for our freedom! And do you know what!!!! I would almost go so far as to say we would have been better off to have lost! because no other counrty would take the Sh*te that we do!!! 
DT

Sorry to have gone off subject!
Back now to HALAL MEAT


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

lozb said:


> multi-cultural works for me - living side by side with other cultures teaches us lots - works in lots of countries all over the world (and in some does not work at all......)
> 
> However, I do not want the bad - the totally unecessary painful death of animals, to be in THIS country. I do not want that to be a part of my life, or that of my daughters.
> 
> If the burger eaten by whoever has been slaughtered to honor a religious stance which is totally unecessary then that is WRONG. The animal has suffered for NO reason. There is NO justifying that. At All.


*Very good post and i totaly agree with you.We as a nation once (and not that long ago) prided ourselves as being a nation of animal lovers.When and why did that change?*


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

martinlewislegend said:


> There is always one, isn't there!


*So true.*



shellyann1971 said:


> a awful lot more happens without our knowledge..
> 
> I for one am happy to live in a multi cultural country, and to learn and understand others way of life on my doorstep, and for my daughter to learn, the bad and the good, its apart of life.
> 
> Michelle


*I love living in a multi cultural country but this has nothing to do with that.*



mumof6 said:


> but the whole point of this thread is we are NOT being told...
> 
> so how can you learn from that?


*Exactly....Some people seem to be missing the point of this thread or twisting it to suit their own agenda.
*


----------



## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

lozb said:


> multi-cultural works for me - living side by side with other cultures teaches us lots - works in lots of countries all over the world (and in some does not work at all......)
> 
> However, I do not want the bad - the totally unecessary painful death of animals, to be in THIS country. I do not want that to be a part of my life, or that of my daughters.
> 
> If the burger eaten by whoever has been slaughtered to honor a religious stance which is totally unecessary then that is WRONG. The animal has suffered for NO reason. There is NO justifying that. At All.


but sadly bad is apart of life, we dont like it , we dont understand it, and we never will.... but that doesnt give us the right to critise others who dont think it is bad.

I dont want suffering of animals , it makes me sick, but it happens, and sadly it will always happen , either to the extreme of pain, or to the mimimum of pain, the animals can suffer for a long long time, or suffer for a few mins.. I will if I had to support the few mins of halal meat, even tho I dont like it.

I would rather the animals that are locked up in homes seeing no daylight, and the animals that are left to starve to death be under more control, these animals are not killed for a purpose except for more sick reason, even tho the charities do there best to help, they dont get the support they need from the goverment to get this cruelty under control

I guess my priorities on animals welfare, starts at a different point that you, which is my choice, and your choice is Halal meat killings
Michelle


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

borderer said:


> animals dont suffer when there throats are cut


Well what if some one hesitates with the knife Bordie! OR does it too Slowly, What if they miss the spot?
Tell ya what - why don't you let DT practise on you Then at least we'll know one way or the other!

By the way!! am confused about what game we are talking of Bordie! Are you hunting Deer?? cos no-one has EVER brought a rabbit nor a bird her with a slit throat and I have a fair few!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

borderer said:


> animals dont suffer when there throats are cut


And can you back that statement up with FACTS?


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> well thats good for you!
> But I unfortunately am not! I have no problem with other nationalities joining us on 'OUR ISLAND, but I would like to think that they would respect us and our way of life! AND if that means that I dont want to read of animals having their throats cut and then being fed into society then I nor anyone else should not have too!!
> 
> I dont got to Saudi and drink alcohol!
> ...


*Totally agree and valid points to about what our forefathers fought for. *


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *So true.*
> 
> *I love living in a multi cultural country but this has nothing to do with that.*
> 
> ...


ye ya so right argument going fs will be in there:thumbup::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

shellyann1971 said:


> I guess my priorities on animals welfare, starts at a different point that you, which is my choice, and your choice is Halal meat killings
> Michelle


its about the freedom of choice and not being told the full truth.

(my animal welfare priorities are extremely high thank you )


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

borderer said:


> animals dont suffer when there throats are cut


*Odd how animal experts such as vets,etc would disagree with you. *



shellyann1971 said:


> but sadly bad is apart of life, we dont like it , we dont understand it, and we never will.... but that doesnt give us the right to critise others who dont think it is bad.
> 
> I dont want suffering of animals , it makes me sick, but it happens, and sadly it will always happen , either to the extreme of pain, or to the mimimum of pain, the animals can suffer for a long long time, or suffer for a few mins.. I will if I had to support the few mins of halal meat, even tho I dont like it.
> 
> ...


*May i ask why you have nothing to say about the topic this thread is about but keep insisting in taking it off track? *


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

borderer said:


> animals dont suffer when there throats are cut


Animals feel the pain of religious slaughter - science-in-society - 13 October 2009 - New Scientist

Brain signals have shown that calves do appear to feel pain when slaughtered according to Jewish and Muslim religious law, strengthening the case for adapting the practices to make them more humane.

Not saying that stunning doesn't cause _any_ pain... just showing that cutting an animals throat, according to the newscienist (and you'd think they'd know) does cause pain.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> I guess my priorities on animals welfare, starts at a different point that you, which is my choice, and your choice is Halal meat killings
> Michelle


Weel would you like to explain on another thread exactly WHAT you prioties are! Because to be quite honest I don't actually believe you have any!
So much so if I could possibly give you another blood red blob I would!


----------



## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

borderer said:


> animals dont suffer when there throats are cut


Another old wives tale 

I would question the morality of anyone who can take another living, breathing creatures life. Monsters!


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## shellyann1971 (Jun 25, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Odd how animal experts such as vets,etc would disagree with you. *
> 
> *May i ask why you have nothing to say about the topic this thread is about but keep insisting in taking it off track? *


if you have a look further back in this thread, people are starting threads , etc, to get this way of killing a animals banned


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> if you have a look further back in this thread, people are starting threads , etc, to get this way of killing a animals banned


And! that is the point of this thread! We (or most of us) have decided that we are AGAINST Halal meat being fed into our society without our knowledge! As consequently have decided to sign a petition against Halal slaughter!

Do you have a problem understandng that?


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> if you have a look further back in this thread, people are starting threads , etc, to get this way of killing a animals banned


but we will all be eating it tomorrow:thumbup:


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

borderer said:


> but we will all be eating it tomorrow:thumbup:


I made that point earlier


----------



## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And! that is the point of this thread! We (or most of us) have decided that we are AGAINST Halal meat being fed into our society without our knowledge! As consequently have decided to sign a petition against Halal slaughter!
> 
> Do you have a problem understandng that?


Exactly, what this thread is about, and what has got everyone fired up! And quite rightly so, but I can understand the point others are making ALL slaughter is cruel.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

martinlewislegend said:


> Exactly, what this thread is about, and what has got everyone fired up! And quite rightly so, but I can understand the point others are making ALL slaughter is cruel.


Now that is another subject.But imo if an animal it to be killed at least it should be done humainly.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> Now that is another subject.But imo if an animal it to be killed at least it should be done humainly.


Hear Hear!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERY living being deserves that at the very least!


----------



## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> Now that is another subject.But imo if an animal it to be killed at least it should be done humainly.





DoubleTrouble said:


> Hear Hear!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERY living being deserves that at the very least!


*Totally agree as would any decent human being.*


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> Now that is another subject.But imo if an animal it to be killed at least it should be done humainly.


I agree with you, but in my "ideal" world it would not need to be done at all. But I reallise this is the "real cruel" world, and at least it should be done humanely (if that is possible).

What I hate most about halal meat is that religous ceremony is put first, before the animals suffering. That is what angers me most. And the fact it is being taken into mainstream British food outlets, without most peoples knowledge.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

martinlewislegend said:


> What I hate most about halal meat is that religous ceremony is put first, before the animals suffering. That is what angers me most. And the fact it is being taken into mainstream British food outlets, without most peoples knowledge.


and I think that is what is angering most people here!
But! in your view how can it be stopped! how? we see petition after petition after petition! it may be puppy farmers this week and halal slaughter next week! but NOTHING seems to chance! why do they not listen to us! HOW do we make them listen to us! do we have to resort to joining some extreme party where at least a little of what we say is heard?

DT


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## martinlewislegend (Sep 17, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> and I think that is what is angering most people here!
> But! in your view how can it be stopped! how? we see petition after petition after petition! it may be puppy farmers this week and halal slaughter next week! but NOTHING seems to chance! why do they not listen to us! HOW do we make them listen to us! do we have to resort to joining some extreme party where at least a little of what we say is heard?
> 
> DT


The answer is simple, become a veggie and spread the word!!!!

The numbers suffereing can be reduced by like minded people becoming veggies. I see earlier on the thread you were on the road to becoming one of us (veggies), welcome to enlightenment and knowledge! How anyone can eat meat knowing what that little animal went through is beyond me. It brings joy to my heart when someone like you changes your ways. As you said, even the small amount of animals you will save not eating meat, adds up! x


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

martinlewislegend said:


> I agree with you, but in my "ideal" world it would not need to be done at all. But I reallise this is the "real cruel" world, and at least it should be done humanely (if that is possible).
> 
> What I hate most about halal meat is that religous ceremony is put first, before the animals suffering. That is what angers me most. And the fact it is being taken into mainstream British food outlets, without most peoples knowledge.


*I have to admit today was the 1st i had heard of this happening,so i tried to do something about it.We DO have a voice and one day if enough people get together and sign the petitions,i do believe we stand a chance of making a change.:thumbup:*


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I have to admit today was the 1st i had heard of this happening,so i tried to do something about it.We DO have a voice and one day if enough people get together and sign the petitions,i do believe we stand a chance of making a change.:thumbup:*


I did sign the petition Jan! and as I said to Ony earlier I was number 1782 on that petition (if I remember right) and believe you me I would sign petition after petition after petition !! but we never seem to hear what happens ! I sometimes think we are invisable! Maybe the measures we have to take have to be extreme! we don't have a voice! of the ears that should be listening are deaf!


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Wow too many pages to read through 

I'm veggie (have been since I was about 13) but mum and dad eat meat. Saying that since I've stopped eating it they have saw you don't have to starve to death being veggie and eat alot of Quorn stuff themself now. They actually prefer some of it to the proper meat. They also buy free range where possible too. I do feel awful that the meat I buy my dogs is probaly from awful conditions but they need meat.. I wouldn't mind paying more for their food if it meant better conditions for the animals.

I actually notice some products here labled halal but it tends to be in small shops run by muslims etc so maybe that's why.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Some would say eating it!


lmao yes that bit too! :lol:



martinlewislegend said:


> Grrrrrrrrr Would you like to be hunted down, and end up on someones dinner plate? I think not!


Humans are eaten by animals in far less "humane" ways but I think Id be a bit stringy for anyones taste.
Oh, and human fetuses are considered a delicacy in some countries so dont try and tell me humans are never consumed



martinlewislegend said:


> Are you off to lick the blood off your hands?
> 
> Do threads like this make you feel uncomfortable about your lifestyle? Is that why you made light of this thread?


Sadly, I finished the last of my blackpudding this morning so no more blood to lick off 
I enjoy my lifestyle thanks, I eat only British organic meat and catch it myself when I can.

As for halal meat, by all means serve it. But give those consuming it a choice from halal and non-Halal. I wont eat Halal knowingly due to religious reasons


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *As far as i'm concernd Claire halal meat should be banned full stop.It goes against our rules.*


Agree entirely Janice. Bloody sick of people coming into this country and making their own rules.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

shellyann1971 said:


> You are wrong here
> 
> Why cant schools serve Halal meat? the schools that are likely to serve halal meat will be muslim schools, so if you and I send out child to a muslim school, that is what we are to expect.
> 
> Michelle.


Excuse me? I think you need to check your facts my love don't you????

It is british schools that are attended by british kids that are serving halal meat, with no choice of an alternative, unless your vegetarian of course...And even if I did send my child to muslim school I would still be appalled that their dietary requiremnets weren't being catered for


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

*Todays newspaper:

Halal meat secretly served to thousands by venues, says Masood Khawaja | The Sun |News*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Todays newspaper:
> 
> Halal meat secretly served to thousands by venues, says Masood Khawaja | The Sun |News*


*This quote is taken from that article.
"A spokesman said: "It is not mentioned on menus because we don't think there is customer demand for that information."
 well if thats all it boils down to lets just pretend its all halal.*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

:lol::lol: The Sun??? That well known 'reliable' source of information!!!!


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> :lol::lol: The Sun??? That well known 'reliable' source of information!!!!


Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Millions being secretly served with halal meat

The NOTW are reporting it, and the Mail, and the Sun.

Out of all those, I think the Express is the *most* reliable...? (I don't like the mail, and notw and the Sun are tarred with the same brush!)


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> :lol::lol: The Sun??? That well known 'reliable' source of information!!!!


*It wasn't the Sun newspaper that reported the article put on here yesterday was it? *


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> :lol::lol: The Sun??? That well known 'reliable' source of information!!!!


No smoke without fire Cleo
Not in my book!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


Cleo38 said:



:lol::lol: The Sun??? That well known 'reliable' source of information!!!! 

Click to expand...

The Sun is only one of many.
Halal Britain: Famous institutions routinely serve the public ritually slaughtered meat | Mail Online

Brit parents outraged over serving of 'Halal' meat in schools

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Millions being secretly served with halal meat

Public 'being misled' over halal meat | News | Farmers Guardian

And the list goes on.*


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Or this one that has more members.
> 
> Welcome to Facebook*





FREE SPIRIT said:


> *For those not on Facebook here is a petition to sign if you're against religious slaughter in the UK.
> 
> BAN RELIGIOUS SLAUGHTER IN UK Petition
> 
> *


joined and signed:thumbup:

animal welfare has always come 1st with me imo religeon should never be used as an excuse for causing animals to suffer.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Just signed the petition.:thumbup:


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I think if you were to dig deep enough you would probably find that most of the following places will serve halal meat:


Your Local Kebab restaurant/ takeaway
Your local Indian restaurant/ takeaway
Some supermarket pie products - like patties etc

I think it is probably in more products than what we think - more holes than a colander!


I am not a veggie but if I go to the Indian then I will only eat veggie meals.

If my kids school were ever to change their policy to only serve Halal Meat then I would take them out and out them somewhere with choice!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *If enough people stand their ground i would like to think things will change.We can only try.*


Thats right Jan - change can only happen when people voice their opinions and make a stand - I have signed the petition  hope others do too


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> Thats right Jan - change can only happen when people voice their opinions and make a stand - I have signed the petition  hope others do too


*I think now its come out into the open a lot of people will take a stand on this one.And well done to all that have signed the petition.:thumbup:*


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

May be if we was to stop going to our local take away outlets too, then the people owning them might sit up and think again!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Savahl said:


> "They" are not taking over anything. It is the way our society is; its the white middle class in power that are hypersensitive to minorities that start these things. Do you think that Sainsburys, Tescos, Asda and Morrisons are run by anyone other than the white majority?
> 
> I have many friends that are of different religions and cultures, and NONE think that the country should bend to fit their culture rather than the traditional one. They merely expect acceptance of the countries diversity and understanding. Do not judge the majority because of the few nutters.
> Dont believe everything the daily mail print...
> ...


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

thread now re-opened taken out lots of posts so hope it still makes some sort of sense


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

As you know Jan, I have very strong views about any form of animal cruelty/abuse and this sort of practice should not be allowed in a civilised society.

People cannot hide behind their religion, it is morally and ethically WRONG, not to mention the unbelievable cruelty involved in getting these poor animals to the plate.

If there are any doubters here, take a look on utube.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Nina said:


> As you know Jan, I have very strong views about any form of animal cruelty/abuse and this sort of practice should not be allowed in a civilised society.
> 
> People cannot hide behind their religion, it is morally and ethically WRONG, not to mention the unbelievable cruelty involved in getting these poor animals to the plate.
> 
> If there are any doubters here, take a look on utube.


*Nina as i've said before ,i didn't even know what halal meat was,but i have seen footage on youtube and it makes me feel sick.As you know i do eat meat,but i at least want it killed in a humane way. As far as i can see religion has nothing to do with it,as those that want halal meat can still eat meat that has been stunned 1st and it wont be going against thier religion.*


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Savahl said:
> 
> 
> > "They" are not taking over anything. It is the way our society is; its the white middle class in power that are hypersensitive to minorities that start these things. Do you think that Sainsburys, Tescos, Asda and Morrisons are run by anyone other than the white majority?
> ...


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2010)

Nina said:


> As you know Jan, I have very strong views about any form of animal cruelty/abuse and this sort of practice should not be allowed in a civilised society.
> 
> People cannot hide behind their religion, it is morally and ethically WRONG, not to mention the unbelievable cruelty involved in getting these poor animals to the plate.
> 
> If there are any doubters here, take a look on utube.


Nina!
As usual I am with you 100% !

People have been allowed to hide behind their religion for far far too long! 
And it is all protected by the many loopholes that are created to cover such!

Out of interest, If aid workers dropped tons of BRITISH slaughtered meat into some of these disaster areas I wonder would they eat it!

Think we know the answer to that don't we! opps yes of course we do! there is a loophole in their religion to allow it!

Best of both worlds really!


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

*Ooh apparantly it's been in our food chain for years.

http://www.expressandstar.com/blogs/2010/09/21/ritually-slaughtered-meat-youve-been-eating-it-for-years/*


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> I have just one thing to say to you folk who are naive enough to belive that their is 'minimum' suffering inflicted on the animal!
> 
> The next time you go for surgery, or the dentist even! Ask for the procedure to be done without anesthetic! I promise you!!! it won't hurt!


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## sweetice2010 (Aug 13, 2010)

whit whoo its open again for comments!


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2010)

The other side of the argument

UK: Halal meat: the truth : halalfocus.net


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

As discussed on the other thread regarding halal - from what I've read there are certain stunning methids that are permitted.

Chicken slaughter seems to be the same procedure but just carried out by a muslim & a prayer said during the slaughter - this is just from the few articles I've read so I'm not saying this is 100% fact!!!

I agree that there should be choice regarding the meat that is eaten but I think that rather than just condemn all halal meat surely a little more investigation before hand???


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


rona said:



The other side of the argument

UK: Halal meat: the truth : halalfocus.net

Click to expand...

I read that article rona and i have to say it lead to another article from the same paper.
UK NEWS EU BAN ON 'INHUMANE' HALAL AND KOSHER MEAT : halalfocus.net
Now i question this quote taken from the link.
"The move could threaten production of both halal and kosher meat, rules for which often forbid pre-stunning.".....this statement is not true,as has been pointed out on this thread.
Also taken from the article..
"In a seminar entitled Why we shun the stun, Shuja Shafi, chairman of the Muslim Council of Britains food standards committee, said religious demands meant animals had to be alive, healthy and conscious at the time of slaughter Yet another lie.*


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

taken from Janices link....*A scientific study by the Governments Farm Animal Welfare Council in 2003 found that animals could remain fully conscious for up to two minutes after having their throats cut.*

now how can that be justified!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Having read a bit more it seems that there are 2 sorts of stunning:
stunning to kill
stunning to immobilise
The Halal Food Authority lists of its FAQ http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/pressrelaese_faqs.pdf
that it is acceptable to use stunning methods to immobilise animals:
water bath for poultry
electric tong stun for ovine meat
I was also reading about organi halal meat Stunning Animals - Halal or Haram? The Truth. which states:

'In short, Abraham Natural Produce (the orgainc supplier) would rather all animals were slaughtered without stunning . However most abattoirs in the UK, unless purpose built for halal slaughter, use stunning on animals. Where we are based in the UK there are no Muslim abattoirs. We therefore have no option but to stun our produce as only animals processed through abattoirs can be sold for human consumption. On top of this we are bound by organic standards which demand that any animal solds as "organic" must be stunned before being stuck'

So it is incorrect to say all animals are not stunned prior to slaughter.

From what I have read halal poultry is slaughtered in excatly the same way as non-halal


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *Ooh apparantly it's been in our food chain for years.
> 
> http://www.expressandstar.com/blogs/2010/09/21/ritually-slaughtered-meat-youve-been-eating-it-for-years/*


*From reading this link i came across this,New EU rules regarding halal meat being labelled.*
New EU rules require compulsory labelling of halal meat - News, Food & Drink - The Independent


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> I read that article rona and i have to say it lead to another article from the same paper.
> UK NEWS EU BAN ON 'INHUMANE' HALAL AND KOSHER MEAT : halalfocus.net
> ...


I make absolutely no apologies for being completely bigoted on this subject.

As far as I can see there should be absolutely NO justification for this barbaric practice.Perhaps a quick visit to utube to see the suffering may just clarify our points.

I cannot believe that this is even a debatable subject, when we are all supposed to be animal lovers


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2010)

Nina said:


> I make absolutely no apologies for being completely bigoted on this subject.
> 
> As far as I can see there should be absolutely NO justification for this barbaric practice.Perhaps a quick visit to utube to see the suffering may just clarify our points.
> 
> I cannot believe that this is even a debatable subject, when we are all supposed to be animal lovers


The trouble with things like youtube is the sensationalism, this also applies to the papers. I'm sure that if you look at footage and reports, you could find plenty of barbaric happening even with stunning an animal.
A lot depends on the person/people who carry out these slaughters.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Nina said:


> I make absolutely no apologies for being completely bigoted on this subject.
> 
> As far as I can see there should be absolutely NO justification for this barbaric practice.Perhaps a quick visit to utube to see the suffering may just clarify our points.
> 
> I cannot believe that this is even a debatable subject, when we are all supposed to be animal lovers


I actually don't eat meat at all (but still love a good debate ) but hate the fact that there are so many uninformed opinions on here.

Too many people make knee jerk reactions without knowing facts. Alot of comments on here were regarding chicken slaughter & people not wanting to go to Nandos (was it?) becuase of halal chicken there.

I find it strange that people were getting het up when the fact is that chickens are slaughtered in the same way. If people were that concerned about animal welfare then they wouldn't be eating fast food chicken as it will be factory farmed causing unnecessary suffering to the poor animals during their miserable lives.

If people really care about animals don't eat from these places full stop regardless of halal meat


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

rona said:


> The trouble with things like youtube is the sensationalism, this also applies to the papers. I'm sure that if you look at footage and reports, you could find plenty of barbaric happening even with stunning an animal.
> A lot depends on the person/people who carry out these slaughters.


*Thats true and i've seen the way some animals have been treated,including where animals that should have been stunned,have not been stunned properly.
There is a campain going ob for cctv camera's to be installed in all slaughters houses.*


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thats true and i've seen the way some animals have been treated,including where animals that should have been stunned,have not been stunned properly.
> There is a campain going ob for cctv camera's to be installed in all slaughters houses.*


And lets hope it gets passed Jan! And when it does that it doesn't get abused!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And lets hope it gets passed Jan! And when it does that it doesn't get abused!


*:thumbsup: The sooner its passed the better.*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I really don't see what good that will do when animal cruelty seems to carry such little punishment.

I think it's the consumers who need to change their perception & expectations regarding the meat industry. 

Customers need to recognise that in order to ensure the animals are well cared for, in appropriate surroundings, fed correctly & endure minimum distress when taken to slaughter, etc they will have to pay more for their meat.

The days of cheap, factory farmed meat need to stop & people need to start considering animals welfare a bit more. 

If price is an issue then maybe eat less meat but better quality


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> I actually don't eat meat at all (but still love a good debate ) but hate the fact that there are so many uninformed opinions on here.
> 
> Too many people make knee jerk reactions without knowing facts. Alot of comments on here were regarding chicken slaughter & people not wanting to go to Nandos (was it?) becuase of halal chicken there.
> 
> ...


I think its a subject that its very hard to ensure 100% that the meat you eat has not suffered therefore the only true stand to take is vegetarianism IMO or to absolutely know where your meat has come from which i think more people (but sadly not nearly enough) are now doing.

Its the same with animal testing, in reality few people genuinely ensure that every product they use is cruelty free.

I totally agree with your point about chickens, doubt there are many restaurants/fast food outlets serving "happy" chicken nuggets  and many many people outraged by this pracrice will still be buying cheap supermarket chickens too which have appalling lives as recently highlighted.

If we are looking seriosuly at animal suffering we have to address our own problems too.

Anyone interested in making a positive change can check out these guys. They deliver and if you research and use cheaper cuts of meat and maybe commit to a couple of meat free days a week i don't think the increased cost is massive. I can vouch for the quality.

Devon organic meat, beef, lamb, pork and chicken, meat boxes online - Higher Hacknell Organic Farm

Signing petitions is great but the most positive change you can effect is with where you chose to spend your money


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## Geff (Sep 23, 2010)

I agree with your views, we have animal welfare laws, so why does all that go out the window, to accomodate other religious beliefs, "when in rome do as the romans do".
Why should we as a nation take a massive leap backwards into the dark ages.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> I really don't see what good that will do when animal cruelty seems to carry such little punishment.
> 
> I think it's the consumers who need to change their perception & expectations regarding the meat industry.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's just about cost. I know of a farm that is free range, and people pay premium prices for the product at the farm.
If they only took a little while to look around, they would realise that the husbandry is dreadful. 
Free range and organic animals can suffer too if the person looking after them is inept.
Sorry Jan, went off topic there


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

rona said:


> I don't think it's just about cost. I know of a farm that is free range, and people pay premium prices for the product at the farm.
> If they only took a little while to look around, they would realise that the husbandry is dreadful.
> Free range and organic animals can suffer too if the person looking after them is inept.
> Sorry Jan, went off topic there


Thats why its important to really understand where and how your meat is produced  only that way can you make a truly informed decision about what you eat :001_cool:


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> Thats why its important to really understand where and how your meat is produced  only that way can you make a truly *informed *decision about what you eat :001_cool:


I think that is the key word here!! 

PS. Looked at the link you posted - looks great for my OH (sorry to go off topic!)


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

Cost is also an option,for poorer familes.
Some times free range or organic is twice the price.If you are on benefits,its not easy to go for the kinder range,however much you want to.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

holly1 said:


> Cost is also an option,for poorer familes.
> Some times free range or organic is twice the price.If you are on benefits,its not easy to go for the kinder range,however much you want to.


I disagree but if thats what people think then they have 2 options to avoid hypocrisy A) go vegetarian or B) buy the cheap stuff and accept how it is produced 

The amount of food that gets wasted in this country, like the woman on a documentary i saw who was buying whole chicken cutting off the breasts and then throwing the rest away :scared: if people gave more thought to what they cooked i think it is possible to eat ethically on a budget


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

I totally agree,but thats the way it is.
I try to make my food go further than I used to.I freeze alot,and make soup.The slow cooker is great for cheaper cuts of meat too.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*The bottom line is,all animals have a right to be kept in decent living conditions and have the same right to a "decent" end to their lives.
*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

holly1 said:


> I totally agree,but thats the way it is.
> I try to make my food go further than I used to.I freeze alot,and make soup.The slow cooker is great for cheaper cuts of meat too.


Thats great  I am by no means saying i am squeaky clean  as i said its very very hard to be 100% committed to ensuring everything you eat is cruelty free and people have to take it to the degree they feel they can and that they can live with, i still have the odd Mc Donalds and takeaway :scared:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> I think that is the key word here!!
> 
> PS. Looked at the link you posted - looks great for my OH (sorry to go off topic!)


Their pork is ledgendary and the chickens carry alot of meat and are more filling so you eat less (probably less water than supermarket ones )

When i was ordering regularly i used to order £120 every 6 weeks and that fed 4 of us without a problem so not bad for £20 per week, we generally have fish at least one night and one or two meat free nights  It did used to freak me out a bit to see the individual price of a chicken but then it did 3 meals. Cheaper cuts like brisket and chicken legs, mince, stewing steak etc keeps the costs down


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## Geff (Sep 23, 2010)

The Government won't change as they are scared of being classed as racists, although they can be prestunned I believe? which would bring it in line with our system of slaughter.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Geff said:


> The Government won't change as they are scared of being classed as racists, although they can be prestunned I believe? which would bring it in line with our system of slaughter.


As I mentioned in other posts they do use pre-stunning as it electrc tongs or baths.

The Compassion In World Farming website suggests that 90% of halal meat is pre-stunned


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

JANICE199 said:


> *The bottom line is,all animals have a right to be kept in decent living conditions and have the same right to a "decent" end to their lives.
> *


Could not agree more Janice and what a fantastic idea to have CCTV in all slaughter houses.

I am pleading ignorance now, by asking if there is a difference between halal and kosha meat! I thought that they were one in the same


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> As I mentioned in other posts they do use pre-stunning as it electrc tongs or baths.
> 
> The Compassion In World Farming website suggests that 90% of halal meat is pre-stunned


Suggests! and that is the problem! They suggest! well how the heck are we ever supposed to believe that? I have been to India, ( and not the india you would normally go on holiday to) and several other places in that area! I think I can safely say that I would very much doubt that there is ANY pre stunning there! So that blows that figure (90%)right out of the water!

DT

And by the way! I used to avoid the buthers like the plaque! I would cross the road of turn around to avoid passing one!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Suggests! and that is the problem! They suggest! well how the heck are we ever supposed to believe that? I have been to India, ( and not the india you would normally go on holiday to) and several other places in that area! I think I can safely say that I would very much doubt that there is ANY pre stunning there! So that blows that figure (90%)right out of the water!
> 
> DT
> 
> And by the way! I used to avoid the buthers like the plaque! I would cross the road of turn around to avoid passing one!


I used the word suggest (maybe incorrectly) as they did not say how they arrived at that figure or where that came from.

As for India they will obviously have different rules there (if any!!) but I think 40% of the population is vegetarian anyway. That's why I had no problem stuffing my face out there & coming back about a stone heavier


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