# Advise and help please on my newborn kittens



## carlyd (Mar 16, 2013)

Hi my cat had 6 kittens 2 days ago all where born alive but after 1 hour one died:'( we tried to save it but it was gone. Yesterday the other 5 where all feeding but 1 was alot smaller than others. Last night the smallest wouldnt stop meowing and was all floppy i rang emergancy vets they said its was fadding kitten syndrome and it was dying i drove to vets but he died by the time i had arrived:'( im now worried sick about the other 4. I have weighed them today and 3 are between 121-125g but one is only 107g. I am worried mum may not be producing milk but how can i tell? i have brought today kitten formula and syringe but i dont know if i should butt in or leave mum to it? this is her second litter and last litter she had 5 and they whee all fine. Mum licked her nipples loads in last 3 wks of pregnancy is this normal or are they blocked or something? also last 2 weeks of pregnancy mum didnt eat much about 2 pouches a day where as her last pregnancy she wad on 5 pouches a day. Please any help or advise im worried sick.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

Hi, sorry you are having a rough time of it, it happens and part of the deal you enter into when you breed any animal. 

first things first, pack the whole family up and take a trip to the vet, the first port of call is to give mum the once over and rehydrate the kittens if needed.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Hello, sorry for what you and the kittens are going through right now. Sure there will be others on for help, but vet trip as advised would be warranted at this point.

May I ask if you are a registered breeder? If not, why has she been allowed to breed twice already? Are you planning on breeding her more in the future? How old is she?

If the answer to the registered breeder question is no, suggest getting your girl spayed as soon as she is safely able.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_so sorry for the loss of two of the kittens, have you seen them feeding, do they look like they are getting fed,little round tummys, are they warm, away from any cold drafts,hopefully one of the breedrs will pop on and give you some advise, i have my fingers crossed the rest will be ok._


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

107g is not totally terrible for a 2 day old. Best to check again tonight to see if it (and the other kittens) are putting on any weight. If not, definitely start feeding them. 

However, if it's fading kitten syndrome, it is possible that your queen has a different bloodgroup from the stud. Did you check their blood groups before mating? I am not familiar with what to do (I'm sure someone can advice you) but I believe it involves not allowing to drink from mum for 48 hours (so you feed them instead). Something about her antibodies in the colostrum.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

The only way to know if they are getting enough milk is to weigh them daily at the same time each day,i would only top up if you see a dip in weight a big dip.

I wouldnt top up if you can help it as the more the kittens suckle the more milk mum will make.

Can we have pics?What breed are they?Do you know what blood group mum and dad are?

Sometimes this just happens with breeding and theres nothing you can do but accept it.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

pipje said:


> 107g is not totally terrible for a 2 day old. Best to check again tonight to see if it (and the other kittens) are putting on any weight. If not, definitely start feeding them.
> 
> However, if it's fading kitten syndrome, it is possible that your queen has a different bloodgroup from the stud. Did you check their blood groups before mating? I am not familiar with what to do (I'm sure someone can advice you) but I believe it involves not allowing to drink from mum for 48 hours (so you feed them instead). Something about her antibodies in the colostrum.


If the kittens differ in blood group from the mum the damage as been done, Weigh them again in the morning. Hungry kittens will cry and cry and cry.. if they are warm and content they are feeding. But i still say vets for a once over. Good luck


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

pipje said:


> 107g is not totally terrible for a 2 day old. Best to check again tonight to see if it (and the other kittens) are putting on any weight. If not, definitely start feeding them.
> 
> However, if it's fading kitten syndrome, it is possible that your queen has a different bloodgroup from the stud. Did you check their blood groups before mating? I am not familiar with what to do (I'm sure someone can advice you) but I believe it involves not allowing to drink from mum for 48 hours (so you feed them instead). Something about her antibodies in the colostrum.


Aha cross post..perfect info here ^


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I fully agree.....
If you think they are not growing enough, it is off to the vet, and have mother and kittens thoroughly checked, and, if necessary, treated. There may be any number of causes, the kittens may be unhealthy, underdeveloped or have malformed organs, the mother may not be strong or healthy enough or may produce insufficient milk, or the kittens may have been weakened due to a difficult or extended birth.

If the mother does not produce enough milk, you may have to hand-rear the lot, which means you will have to feed them every 2 hours, day and night, for the next 3 or 4 weeks. In this case, you will also need to stimulate their bowel function by massaging them the way a mother cat does when licking them.

Were both the mother and father fully vaccinated and tested for all the usual diseases before mating? You have to make sure neither parent can transmit any diseases to their partner or the kittens, which means you should carefully select and test them and not breed from any cat that carries a disease or a genetic defect. If you don't, these diseases and (predispositions to) genetic malformations or disorders will be passed on to the kittens.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> If the kittens differ in blood group from the mum the damage as been done, Weigh them again in the morning. Hungry kittens will cry and cry and cry.. if they are warm and content they are feeding. But i still say vets for a once over. Good luck


If its a blood group issue there is a chance the kittens that are still here are of a blood groop that wont be affected.

Op did the ends of the tails turn black?


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> If its a blood group issue there is a chance the kittens that are still here are of a blood groop that wont be affected.
> 
> Op did the ends of the tails turn black?


Yes sorry should have been a little clearer, you can't untake the antibodies in the colostrum so whatever has been consumed is done, if they are of a differing group there is no point seperating them from mum now.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> Yes sorry should have been a little clearer, you can't untake the antibodies in the colostrum so whatever has been consumed is done, if they are of a differing group there is no point seperating them from mum now.


I agree.


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## carlyd (Mar 16, 2013)

Mummy cat is a ragdoll and i took her to a stud at a ragdoll breeders however i used a different stud last time. Both cats have had all the pre mating tests. The kittens are not meowing and are sleeping alot. But all the kittens seemed fine yesterday and then suddrnly one went down hill so im very nervous. As someone said i guess i just have to wsit and weigh them again tommorow and hope they have all gained weight. Im just so worried i cant bare the thought of another baby dying :-(


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

carlyd said:


> Mummy cat is a ragdoll and i took her to a stud at a ragdoll breeders however i used a different stud last time. Both cats have had all the pre mating tests. The kittens are not meowing and are sleeping alot. But all the kittens seemed fine yesterday and then suddrnly one went down hill so im very nervous. As someone said i guess i just have to wsit and weigh them again tommorow and hope they have all gained weight. Im just so worried i cant bare the thought of another baby dying :-(


I dont know if raggies are blood grouped as they arnt my breed op you may know more here if so did you blood group them?

Is the stud owner registered?Are you?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Sadly everybody loses kittens at some stage of breeding.
To see if mum is producing milk, just gentle squeeze the teats to see if milk is coming from them, if so great.
Normally if you get a kitten that squarks, sadly it means something is wrong, doesnt mean you can see the problem but they usually do die.
Do keep a check on weights, any weight loss you need to hand rear but i wouldnt step in unless the weights drop otherwise mum wont produce the milk.

Where abouts do you live, as if near to me i will be able to help you.

Can you also take a quick photo so we can see if these babies have nice round tummies, you dont want flat tummy kittens. xxx


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

It sounds like mum may be ill, eating so little in the last weeks of pregnancy - that's when most girls eat like a horse.

Keep weighing them, her milk is better than formula so only supp feed if they're not gaining or are unsettled, and obviously not content with mums milk.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Another thought is mum could have an infection.
If this was my own queen and kittens, i would be getting the vet out for a check.
I take it the kittens are being kept warm, as cold kittens also die.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Has this stud sired many litters before, or is he a new kid on the block?

I was just thinking, if there are no records of previous litters yet, it may have something to do with him. Occasionally, spontaneous mutations occur, and unless they show up in his looks, there is no way of telling.

But it may just as well be a simple case of bad luck.

I hope mother and the other kittens continue to do well....


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## carlyd (Mar 16, 2013)

Thanks for everyones comments you have all been very helpfull. Kittens are all doing well they are feeding then sleeping. I have weighed them again and the smallest which was 107g yesterday has put on 10g in 24hrs. The chunkiest one has put on a whopping 18g in 24hrs. Im so pleased they are all gaining.  I feel much happier today and hopefull Mums still not eating much she is eating but just a few nibbles here and there so am keep a close eye on her to.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_glad they seem to be doing well.fingers crossed they carry on putting on weight. have you got a picture of mum,what colour is she, and what colour do you think babies will be._


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Some cats dont always eat a lot straight after having kittens,as they dont want to leave the kittens, hopefully this is the case
Dont know why the mention of whether the cats are registered or not comes into this at the moment,all the person is asking is advice for the kittens
Dont think she needs a lecture


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> Some cats dont always eat a lot straight after having kittens,as they dont want to leave the kittens, hopefully this is the case
> Dont know why the mention of whether the cats are registered or not comes into this at the moment,all the person is asking is advice for the kittens
> Dont think she needs a lecture


Whos given a lecture? We just wanted a bigger picture!


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

jaycee05 said:


> Some cats dont always eat a lot straight after having kittens,as they dont want to leave the kittens, hopefully this is the case
> Dont know why the mention of whether the cats are registered or not comes into this at the moment,all the person is asking is advice for the kittens
> Dont think she needs a lecture


I think the breeders on here only ever try to get the whole picture so that they can help as much as they can. I've been on here only a few weeks and already I have seen some of the lovely people help with 2-3 litters, whether that be being born or after care. I think the term 'lecturing' is misplaced.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

i just want to see photos we love to see photos of all the cats and kittens don't we


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

cats galore said:


> i just want to see photos we love to see photos of all the cats and kittens don't we


Maybe once they are healthy! Sounds like mum still isn't on great form.


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Hope mum and kittens do well over the coming weeks. Awww lovely raggie babies! :001_tt1: everything crossed for you x


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Some people may think we are asking strange questions or lecturing (loose term) but in fact we do need the full picture sometimes to give the correct advise.

There would be little point in saying "yes its this.xxxxxx" then somebody states a blood test showed xxx up.

There is always a reason behind a question.

For example: my queen last year had 3 kittens, i thought all was fine but suddenly day 4 my queen looked very poorly and the kittens wasnt thriving. Turned out at a scan she has a sever infection of the uterus so was immediately placed on antibiotics and i then had to hand rear.

In my case, all was well after a further 5 days, but i find with experience if i sit down and ask myself questions, i do find i get to the answer very quickly.

So the point is, every question and answer eliminates a possibility. 

In this instant, if being a registered breeder this could point in the direction of blood tests, any possible past problems as a different stud had been used, or any past health history which could result in the loss of kittens.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Ok, lecture might have been a bit strong, but whenever anyone asks for help it always comes up, are the cats on active,if not they should be spayed,and if not why have another litter
I see the reasoning behind some questions, but the kittens are here now whether registered or not,parents blood tested or not isnt going to make any difference now, 
I have just noticed when someone asks for help they always seem to get criticized for letting the cat have kittens in the first place,and i understand the reasons behind this,there are too many cats in rescues, but if someone needs help ,they should be able to ask without being made to feel guilty, 
There are caring cat owners as well as uncaring ones, registered or not


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

No one has criticized the OP in any way shape or form.  All I've noticed is good helpful and supportive advice from knowledgeable folks. The questions are all relevant. This is an educational thread to benefit all who may be reading in addition to the OP. 

The only one bringing up this issue is you.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> Ok, lecture might have been a bit strong, but whenever anyone asks for help it always comes up, are the cats on active,if not they should be spayed,and if not why have another litter
> I see the reasoning behind some questions, but the kittens are here now whether registered or not,parents blood tested or not isnt going to make any difference now,
> I have just noticed when someone asks for help they always seem to get criticized for letting the cat have kittens in the first place,and i understand the reasons behind this,there are too many cats in rescues, but if someone needs help ,they should be able to ask without being made to feel guilty,
> There are caring cat owners as well as uncaring ones, registered or not


Imo there is no reason to breed non registered cats,its cutting corners and if one is willing to cut corners on one thing they will cut corners in other areas too.

Breeding fron non active cats is so wrong they are placed on non active for a reason that could be a very good reason too.

Just cause the damage is done re blood group possibilty doesnt mean we cant give info to the op about it,they may not know.They could learn something and so can anyone else reading.

No one has made op feel guilty or given them a hard time just good advise.

CC you put that very well.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> Hello, sorry for what you and the kittens are going through right now. Sure there will be others on for help, but vet trip as advised would be warranted at this point.
> 
> May I ask if you are a registered breeder? If not, why has she been allowed to breed twice already? Are you planning on breeding her more in the future? How old is she?
> 
> If the answer to the registered breeder question is no, suggest getting your girl spayed as soon as she is safely able.


Your own post asks these questions also,and sounds very critical to me


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

jaycee05 said:


> Ok, lecture might have been a bit strong, but whenever anyone asks for help it always comes up, are the cats on active,if not they should be spayed,and if not why have another litter
> I see the reasoning behind some questions, but the kittens are here now whether registered or not,parents blood tested or not isnt going to make any difference now,
> I have just noticed when someone asks for help they always seem to get criticized for letting the cat have kittens in the first place,and i understand the reasons behind this,there are too many cats in rescues, but if someone needs help ,they should be able to ask without being made to feel guilty,
> There are caring cat owners as well as uncaring ones, registered or not


The most silliest of questions do end up to be the most important one... It's all about getting the bigger picture ... Yes OP queen and kittens need help but we need full facts . And by asking whether both parents are registered active and had all relevant blood test done prior to mating gives us breeders a better indication to wots going on with said queen and kittens. Breeders spend a lot of time and money making sure there queens are mated to the correct sire , after all its lives we are dealing with, yes things do and can go wrong but we try our very best to decrease this ... Yes there are a lot of caring cat owners but not all are doing the right things by there cat... It's sad be very true ..


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I do understand why some questions have to be asked, but to me telling someone they shouldnt have let their cat have 2 litters,and why hasnt it been spayed sounds very critical to me, and no one has the right to dictate to anyone else what they should do or should have done with their cat
The question was about the newborn kittens ,and theirs and the mums health. sorry if i offended anyone else


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> I do understand why some questions have to be asked, but to me telling someone they shouldnt have let their cat have 2 litters,and why hasnt it been spayed sounds very critical to me, and no one has the right to dictate to anyone else what they should do or should have done with their cat
> The question was about the newborn kittens ,and theirs and the mums health. sorry if i offended anyone else


Some people are passionate about this issue i guess.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Since when is _asking_ if a cat is registered and _suggesting _ spay neuter for the benefit of everyone reading this thread being critical of anyone?

By bringing this issue up repeatedly, aren't you possibly making the OP a bit uncomfortable yourself? My post was by no means meant to 'criticize' the OP, who has my support in what she is going through with her babies.

This is, BTW, a Cat Breeding Forum.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

If we simply assume we are dealing with an oops-litter, we will give tons of advice that does not apply at all, as we would be dealing with the uncertainty of the compatibility of sire and queen, the possibility of transmission of disease, the possibility of dealing with a very young queen, uncertainty about the date of mating.....

On the other hand, if we assume a planned mating by a serious breeder, we may not take these things into consideration while they should be.....

And, yes, people do have an opinion about oops litters and the dangers involved in careless breeding, and however tactfully a reply will be worded, this will undoubtedly shine through.

And I think this is as it should be. If people come to the forum with questions about a pregnant cat or a litter of newly borns, we do not only deal with the immediate issue, but also with educating people about the dangers they are exposing their cat to if breeding indiscriminately, or with inadequate knowledge or funding.

They are all issues a cat owner should be aware of in order to be able to do right by their cat and the kittens.

I know it is the owner asking for help, but you will find that most people on this forum, and especially the breeders and rescuers, who have seen it all and, in many cases, have been left to pick up the pieces dozens of times in the past, are concerned first and foremost with _helping the ca_t.

So if doing what is best for the cat and kittens involves telling the owner some home truths, they will be told, as carefully worded as possible, but loud and clear nonetheless.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> I do understand why some questions have to be asked, but to me telling someone they shouldnt have let their cat have 2 litters,and why hasnt it been spayed sounds very critical to me, and no one has the right to dictate to anyone else what they should do or should have done with their cat
> The question was about the newborn kittens ,and theirs and the mums health. sorry if i offended anyone else


I do not agree...
Our first concern is with the cats, and as long as all the rescues are overflowing with unwanted cats and kittens, I think it is any responsible person's duty to point out that it is unfair to add to the problem by adding to the number of moggies through ignorance or carelessness, or by deliberate backyard breeding.

If you add the health risks of indiscriminate breeding or leaving queens to call for years without mating to this equasion, it is of the utmost importance _to the cats_ to educate people about these dangers and to try and make them do right by their cat.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

I think it was said in the most diplomatic way it possibly could be, Personally I have mixed views, i really don't see breed of cat being relevant to the population, what gets me is the carelessness of moggy breeding if you want to breed your health tested moggy to another health tested moggy, ones that have never set foot outside the door, you are going to provide food and vet services for up to 6-8 additional mouthes (and no i don't mean chuck an extra tin of Wiskas down) keep and raise those kittens for 13 weeks and sell fully jabbed with a contract and make a tremendous financial loss, and follow the breeding ethics outline by the likes of GCCF or TICA then crack on, but i don't know anyone that breeds their moggies in this way. Hence we are critical as at the end of the day sending unneutered cats out into the wilderness to get pregnant is just plain stupidity. Those that breed and breed well eliminate many of the things that can and do go wrong, moggy breeders we need to go back to basics so yes these questions are important 

Lecture over


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I am a breeder myself,and yes it annoys me too when people let their cats roam and have litter after litter, but it was the way it was said , i didnt think it sounded diplomatic at all
The person was only asking for advice,and i just think she didnt need at this time the "lecture" on what she should have done, i am sure she knows now,and i will not say another word on the subject


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> I am a breeder myself,and yes it annoys me too when people let their cats roam and have litter after litter, but it was the way it was said , i didnt think it sounded diplomatic at all
> The person was only asking for advice,and i just think she didnt need at this time the "lecture" on what she should have done, i am sure she knows now,and i will not say another word on the subject


It wasnt a lecture though as others have said it was to guage exactly what advice may be needed. Pedigree breeding appears to have different issues to moggy breeding especially where health tests are concerned. Hope all is well CarlyD x


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

carlyd said:


> Thanks for everyones comments you have all been very helpfull. Kittens are all doing well they are feeding then sleeping. I have weighed them again and the smallest which was 107g yesterday has put on 10g in 24hrs. The chunkiest one has put on a whopping 18g in 24hrs. Im so pleased they are all gaining.  I feel much happier today and hopefull Mums still not eating much she is eating but just a few nibbles here and there so am keep a close eye on her to.


How is everyone faring now? Is mum feeling any better?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

carlyd said:


> Mums still not eating much she is eating but just a few nibbles here and there so am keep a close eye on her to.


I'd be putting her on ab's, or a vet check if you've not got any on hand. It's gone on a bit long for what I'd be comfortable with, since she ate so little before they were even born I don't feel it's related to not wanting to leave her kittens to eat.

Glad the kittens have all gained


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## carlyd (Mar 16, 2013)

How do i ad pics?


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

To attach a photo to a post click on the little paperclip which will bring up another window to upload from your computer click on 'browse' find the picture you want left click on picture and then upload, once uploaded close the window click on the paperclip again and then click on the uploaded image - you should then have your photo in your post


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

If you click on the paperclip you can add them as attachments.

If you want to paste them in the post, you may upload them to an album in your profile and use the







code provided


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

As i said in an earlier post, mums sometimes dont eat much straightaway, but if she is still not eating much, i agree with others that it is time she sees a vet, it is not going to do her or the kittens any good if shes not getting nourishment,
Feeding kittens will take it out of her,


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