# Naughty schnauzer behaviour?!



## Roxyjade (Jan 30, 2013)

Iv been meaning to post this thread since I joined as it was one of the main reasons I come here...

We own a nearly 2 year old salt and pepper mini schnauzer. Since been 10 weeks old believe it or not he has always shown strange behaviour, growling at other dogs on his first walk, barking at a very young age! As months past it started becoming a problem. EVERY walk he goes on he barks, every person or dog that goes past, he has no fear of any dog if a dog runs over he will just try and lunge at it with his fur up on his back and growl and bark although he tends to be not as bad off lead but I can't trust him enough to leave him off when I see other dogs and most dog walkers avoid our path at all cost when they see us coming lol..

Sofar he has been castrated, which has done nothing!
We have a citrus spray collar which works slightly but other times not at all he will bark through it unfased!

Will also mention I rang his breeders up last year for an update chat and asked what other pups were like and she is in contact with them all and they all have the same traits! Alfie was always very well socialised as a pup regular outings to busy places and dog meetings! Just wondering if anyone has any advice at all! Will be muchly appreciated? Thanks in advance! :smile5:


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## WhatWouldSidDo (Nov 17, 2012)

So the breeder said all her pups bark at everyone and lunge at other dogs or act in a similar way. Am I understanding that correctly?

I'd try a good training club where you can practise keeping her attention on you whilst other dogs are around in a controlled environment


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## Roxyjade (Jan 30, 2013)

Yes I was very shocked aswell! I just rang on off chance one day to ask about his behaviour and she kept his little sister, 3 of them went off to family members and there was only ours and his brother who went off to strangers!

Her exact words were yeah there all the same but it isn't a bad thing really is it at least they protect you! I was like jeez not brilliant though is it when ya have to walk on egg shells on every outing!!


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Roxyjade said:


> Iv been meaning to post this thread since I joined as it was one of the main reasons I come here...
> 
> We own a nearly 2 year old salt and pepper mini schnauzer. Since been 10 weeks old believe it or not he has always shown strange behaviour, growling at other dogs on his first walk, barking at a very young age! As months past it started becoming a problem. EVERY walk he goes on he barks, every person or dog that goes past, *he has no fear of any dog if a dog runs over he will just try and lunge at it with his fur up on his back and growl and bark *although he tends to be not as bad off lead but I can't trust him enough to leave him off when I see other dogs and most dog walkers avoid our path at all cost when they see us coming lol..
> 
> ...


I am afraid you are quite wrong, your dog has a lot of fear, as confident stable dogs do not exhibit this behaviour, and, as he had lots of time to perfect his strategy it will take time to change it.

You really need some help to desensitise him and counter condition your dog's behaviour with the help of an experienced person.

This site may give you some ideas.

Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) | Official site for BAT: dog-friendly training for reactivity (aggression, fear, frustration) by Grisha Stewart, MA

A dog that was interested in protecting you would not be wasting its energy and focus on lunging at other dogs and would be of no use to you.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Roxyjade said:


> Iv been meaning to post this thread since I joined as it was one of the main reasons I come here...
> 
> We own a nearly 2 year old salt and pepper mini schnauzer. Since been 10 weeks old believe it or not he has always shown strange behaviour, growling at other dogs on his first walk, barking at a very young age! As months past it started becoming a problem. EVERY walk he goes on he barks, every person or dog that goes past, he has no fear of any dog if a dog runs over he will just try and lunge at it with his fur up on his back and growl and bark although he tends to be not as bad off lead but I can't trust him enough to leave him off when I see other dogs and most dog walkers avoid our path at all cost when they see us coming lol..
> 
> ...


If he started it at 10 weeks and he is nearly two now then it has become an ingrained learned behaviour.

If anything it sounds to me that its based possibly in uncertainty and fearful behaviour especially as he is worse on lead then off which is often classic.
If a dog is unsure about another dog, person or situation often the first reaction is to put distance/ flight remove themselves, or display calming signals and defuse the situation. On a lead dogs are literally stuck there and cant get away, they havent usually got the time to weigh up the situation either and exhibit communication and calming signals, so left with one option they practise fight, bark, lunge, show teeth in an effort to make the other dog, person etc they are unsure of back off and go away. Problem is you remove them, the other person removes their dog, or the person or dog was passing anyway to them then its worked, so after every situation or thing they are not sure of they repeat the behaviour.

They are often better off lead because the have the time and space for more options, and if they decide the dog is OK may not exhibit it. Unless the dog comes bowling straight up and then because they have the learned behaviour or dealing with it will resort to it then too.

In fearful behaviour castration often does nothing in fact with nervous fearful dogs it can even make it worse as the testosterone that can give them more confidence is taken away. Adversives dont work either again that usually makess it worse if its fearful behaviour/fear agression as all it teaches is that if another dog or person approaches something even more unpleasant happens so even more reason to go into the behaviour and scare them off.

The fact that the whole litter are like it and exhibit the same behaviours it could well be part genetic ie the mother especially may be a nervous fearful dog which often feeds down to the pups or both parents are but usually the mothers temperament and how she reacts has the most influence, if you pair that with insufficient socialisation and early introductions, wsocialisation and handling by the breeder often makes it worse. Likewise if its a nervous puppy and you flood them with too much too soon in the way of sights sounds and situations which are above what they can cope with initially instead of slow gradual introductions a bit at a time, and not taking them over threshold of what they can cope with at once in time and situations then it can exacerbate it further, especially if what they are faced with has negative associations like bad experiences.


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## Roxyjade (Jan 30, 2013)

Thank you for that it really puts into perspective what he is like! Iv been watching lots of videos and I think it might be an idea trying a muzzle and then we might beable to walk closer to dogs using the treats technique I try with him! At Least then I might be more confident with him which means he might also be abit more confident sensing I am and then if he passes dog he can't actually do any damage whilst were training! We have had a dog trainer out I didn't mention in my post! She came out twice to have sessions and only left me with paper work to follow which I could of found on the Internet! And she seemed pretty baffled by it she was asking all questions like what does he eat? And she said he's dominant but dogs who I actually let him meet off a lead he is fine with eventually it's the meeting and when he's on the lead what makes it worse!


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## WhatWouldSidDo (Nov 17, 2012)

The breeder is very foolish. As for the trainer, well I haven't seen the dog so I can't say 100 percent that she's wrong but far too many issues are put down to "Dominance", and dominance is the most miss understood and most over used statement in dog training. 

I think its far more likely that the dog feels insecure but what ever the reason, these behaviours take training and time and consistency to put right.
If the dog goes out once a day and see's a few other dogs and then sees no other dogs for the remaining 23.5 hours it's very difficult to retrain. he needs to be out and about, socialising


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Roxyjade said:


> Thank you for that it really puts into perspective what he is like! Iv been watching lots of videos and I think it might be an idea trying a muzzle and then we might beable to walk closer to dogs using the treats technique I try with him! At Least then I might be more confident with him which means he might also be abit more confident sensing I am and then if he passes dog he can't actually do any damage whilst were training! We have had a dog trainer out I didn't mention in my post! She came out twice to have sessions and only left me with paper work to follow which I could of found on the Internet! And she seemed pretty baffled by it she was asking all questions like what does he eat? And she said he's dominant but dogs who I actually let him meet off a lead he is fine with eventually it's the meeting and when he's on the lead what makes it worse!


Trouble is if you just put a muzzle on and "make" him go up to other dogs and it is uncertainty/fear based, then you are forcing him into a situation and could make it worse. You have to start at a distance he is comfortable with at first from other dogs and then slowly decrease the distance has his confidence builds a bit at a time.

Teaching a realiable watch me at first at home, so you know you can get and keep his attention first should help. Once thats solid then you can start to use it outside. You MUST however start at a distance he is comfortable and non reactive first. Using the Watch me and only when you know and can keep his attention at that distance, then move a little nearer, when thats successful and his non reactive, a little nearer still, and so on and so on.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Roxyjade said:


> Thank you for that it really puts into perspective what he is like! Iv been watching lots of videos and I think it might be an idea trying a muzzle and then we might beable to walk closer to dogs using the treats technique I try with him! At Least then I might be more confident with him which means he might also be abit more confident sensing I am and then if he passes dog he can't actually do any damage whilst were training! We have had a dog trainer out I didn't mention in my post! She came out twice to have sessions and only left me with paper work to follow which I could of found on the Internet! And she seemed pretty baffled by it she was asking all questions like what does he eat? And she said he's dominant but dogs who I actually let him meet off a lead he is fine with eventually it's the meeting and when he's on the lead what makes it worse!


I don't think much of your trainer if she was 'baffled' by it - it's quite a common problem. My dog is similar & was a nightmare at first. We have made alot of progress but she is still anxious if other dogs come too close. Maybe try someone else, are there any other places nearby?

I agree with Sled Dog, I would not force meetings or start working too closely with other dogs. Try to work at distances where you can get him to focus on you, if you start this with other dogs too close by then he will probably become stressd & be worrying about the other dogs too much.


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## Roxyjade (Jan 30, 2013)

Which Is why I'm not spending no more money on a trainer and having ago at exactly the same thing that trainers recommend but myself! As someone said start off far away each day and get closer! I wasn't just guna drag him upto dogs and people with a muzzle on! I no it's a long process and its guna take time but I'm prepared to stick it out rather than pay another £300 pountless pounds on another trainer who's guna come and give me more paperwork of stuff I can research myself!


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## WhatWouldSidDo (Nov 17, 2012)

It would be nice to have other dog walkers to work with as they could stay at a good distance to give you practice


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## Roxyjade (Jan 30, 2013)

Yeah ya see once he's actually greeted a dog off lead he is good with dogs! It's the initial meeting and him been on a lead that's worse x


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Roxyjade said:


> Iv been meaning to post this thread since I joined as it was one of the main reasons I come here...
> 
> We own a nearly 2 year old salt and pepper mini schnauzer. Since been 10 weeks old believe it or not he has always shown strange behaviour, growling at other dogs on his first walk, barking at a very young age! As months past it started becoming a problem. EVERY walk he goes on he barks, every person or dog that goes past, he has no fear of any dog if a dog runs over he will just try and lunge at it with his fur up on his back and growl and bark although he tends to be not as bad off lead but I can't trust him enough to leave him off when I see other dogs and most dog walkers avoid our path at all cost when they see us coming lol..
> 
> ...


I'm working with a Schnauzer who has similar problems. When I discussed it with some other trainers they told me they had a nickname for the breed - 'barking machine's because apparently it's very common.

My clients also tried a spray collar, but the bark collars are completely useless as you've learned. You will likely not stop the behaviour completely now because it's been so long, are there no reward based trainers in your area? We've been working on focus with our little dog, Leave and socialising him with my own dogs, now built up to walking him with our dog walking dogs and it's going very well. He's not aggressive, just enthusiastic! They called me in at a younger age though, he was about 9 months.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I can definitely recommend 'Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash-Reactive Dog' as a starting point for your training. It's really easy to read, gives good, practical advice & exercises you can practise.


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