# Fishless Cycle... OMG when will the ammonia drop?



## Meezey

So I technically started my fishless cycle Thursday dosed up to 3pmm ammonia.. I had a bit of a cock up with the heater won't be using that place again.. So really only got the tank to heat on Sunday, so when would I realistically start to see the ammonia drop? How long on average would a Fishless cycle take?


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## NaomiM

It can vary hugely. You can speed it up if you can get hold of a bit of mature media from a fishkeeping friend, or even a squeeze of water from their filter. Just get it from their filter into yours in as short a time possible, or the good bacteria will die due to lack of oxygenisation.

The ammonia stage is the quickest and you'll see it drop gradually and nirtites increase in proportion. The nitrite stage takes longer, but once it does eventually drop, it tends to go quite suddenly.

It's also worth keeping tabs on your pH, especially if you have soft water, as if the pH drops too low, it can stall the cycle.

Feel free to keep asking questions as you go along - we'll do our best to help


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## Phoenix24

Just to add to what Naomi has said, once you see the ammonia start to drop only top it up to about 1-2ppm once you've finally hit zero, as too much ammonia can stall the cycle by inhibiting the nitrite bacteria.

I had that happen to me and I solved it with one 50% water change, next day nitrites were gone. Otherwise though no water changes until the end of the cycling.

With some seeding media the cycle should take 2-3 weeks. Without any at all it could take 6-8 weeks, or not start at all. Opinions vary but I personally see no harm in chucking in some bottle bacteria if there's no seeded media at all you can get your hands on.

good luck and keep us posted!


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## Meezey

I have bottled bacteria the Seachem Stability, wasn't sure if that was just a gimmick from the fish shop  as they were pushing me to cycle with fish, which I didn't want to do. My PH from source is 7.4, I have to admit I've not checked it in the tank as yet, and I tested straight out of tap also.

Guess I should check the water in the tank's PH and also out of source after 24 hours? I so want to get fish in, but also so want to do best what's best for them..  Will see if I can get some mature media from someone  

NaomiM from my last question on previous post, I am going to purchase a smaller tank for the Siamese Fighter :001_wub: once we have this tank cycled so I will have my childhood fish again  Sad I know lol 

Thank you for your help I appreciate it


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## NaomiM

Opinions vary on the bottled bacteria as Phoenix said. I wouldn't use it if you can get hold of mature media instead, as that's a much surer option  I've heard of people who the bottled bacteria's worked for, but also of others who are convinced it actually stalled/slowed their cycle!



> Guess I should check the water in the tank's PH and also out of source after 24 hours?


 Spot on  If it's 7.4 then the likelihood is that you have hard water, which buffers the pH so it shouldn't swing too much. But to be more certain, you can check your water company's website to find out the hardness 



> NaomiM from my last question on previous post, I am going to purchase a smaller tank for the Siamese Fighter once we have this tank cycled so I will have my childhood fish again Sad I know lol


 You've got the bug!  I'd love a betta tank but think my husband would put his foot down as I already have a 2nd tank arriving soon, which took a lot of persuading! :aureola:


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## Meezey

NaomiM said:


> Opinions vary on the bottled bacteria as Phoenix said. I wouldn't use it if you can get hold of mature media instead, as that's a much surer option  I've heard of people who the bottled bacteria's worked for, but also of others who are convinced it actually stalled/slowed their cycle!
> 
> Spot on  If it's 7.4 then the likelihood is that you have hard water, which buffers the pH so it shouldn't swing too much. But to be more certain, you can check your water company's website to find out the hardness
> 
> You've got the bug!  I'd love a betta tank but think my husband would put his foot down as I already have a 2nd tank arriving soon, which took a lot of persuading! :aureola:


I think I have lol This is a starter tank, I ideally in time would love to have a Discus tank  I was so excited this morning to see a drop in ammonia, and I seem to have Nitrites 1ppm and also Nitrates 0.50 ppm ( bit odd). So will just keep testing and cycling..

So I've changed what I want in the tank given the betta won't be there 

So now looking at

5 x Threadfins
6 x Endlers
5 x Guppy

it will be an all male tank, can you think of any issues in that mix?


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## NaomiM

Looks OK to me. I have occasionally heard of male endlers ganging up on a male guppy, but if there's 5 male guppies it should make them less of a target I would think.

I wouldn't bother testing nitrates at this stage, as the presence of high levels of ammonia and nitrite can mess up the results anyway. What's your nitrate level from the tap?

I think the conversion rate is something like 1ppm ammonia converts to 4-5ppm nitrite, or something like that. So it looks like about 0.25ppm ammonia has been broken down. You'll see the nitrites go pretty high soon enough! It's good news that the cycling's started


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## Meezey

We are getting there ammonia dropping faster each day nitrites not so off the chart, and nitrates about 15/20 ppm plants growing well no algae as yet *fingers crossed*


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## Phoenix24

If the nitrites don't budge (or appear to) after 7-10 days, and/or if you notice the ammonia going up, then perform one 50% water change and hopefully it will kick start things. The nitrites are always slower to go down, and sometimes the ammonia levels can inhibit the bacteria breaking down the nitrites.

Fingers crossed all goes well!


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## Meezey

Thank you, just starting to get brown algae


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## Phoenix24

It could be a bacterial bloom, in which case it will go, or it could be because of the rocketing nitrates fuelling algal growth, and/or too much light. If you have lighting, turn it off - you don't need it, at least not yet - and if the tank is near a window or in a well lit room, consider how you can reduce the light (either relocation of tank or you can use a backing (eg the scenes you put on the tank) or paint the back and sides black to reduce the light.


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## Meezey

So did a water change Saturday as Nitrites hadn't move so topped ammonia to 2ppm last night it's been dropping to 0 last few days, tested tonight ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and Nitrates 40/50 ppm does this sound like it's cycled? So I do another 2 days and make sure they go 0 is that correct? How big a water change should I do before getting the fish? Do I do it on the day of getting them? Should I full stock of add a few ever week or so?


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## NaomiM

Yay, that was quite a fast cycle!

Top up and test a couple more times. If you're consistently getting double zeros, do a large water change (around 80%) to bring the nitrates down, and turn the temperature down to the temp the fish require. Then top up to 1ppm just to check the filter is still working fine after the water change. If it drops back to double zeros within 24 hours, you're ready to add fish!


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## Meezey

NaomiM said:


> Yay, that was quite a fast cycle!
> 
> Top up and test a couple more times. If you're consistently getting double zeros, do a large water change (around 80%) to bring the nitrates down, and turn the temperature down to the temp the fish require. Then top up to 1ppm just to check the filter is still working fine after the water change. If it drops back to double zeros within 24 hours, you're ready to add fish!


It was very fast? Maybe too fast? Ohhhhh excited now could have fish in by the weekend yay lol


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## Phoenix24

Meezey said:


> It was very fast? Maybe too fast? Ohhhhh excited now could have fish in by the weekend yay lol


Great news! You must have had some excellent seeding media in your filter (or did you use the bottled stuff... can't remember)

Yay new fish - let us know what you get


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## Meezey

I used Seachem Stability?? Does seem fast though! Well fingers cross today will be day 3 of double 0, will do water change Thursday and get some fish Friday woot woot excited lol


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## Phoenix24

My LFS recommended the Seachem Stability too - I think seachem products are some of the best on the market, and apparently even their bottled bacteria are up to scratch (good to know!)


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## Meezey

Double 0 tonight again yipppeeeeee :thumbup1: So 80% water change tomorrow, then 1ppm ammonia then fish Friday woot woot lol excited I'm going to still add the fish over a couple of weeks, just to make sure, so Friday will be Endlers, then bit more planting then, threadfins and finally guppies!!!! Then Betta tank lol then if all goes well I will start my discus


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## NaomiM

Best to add the fish group with the highest bioload first, so that the filter doesn't adjust to lower ammonia production  Do water tests for a couple of days after each addition - if all remains stable for 2-3 days, you're good to add the next lot


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## Meezey

NaomiM said:


> Best to add the fish group with the highest bioload first, so that the filter doesn't adjust to lower ammonia production  Do water tests for a couple of days after each addition - if all remains stable for 2-3 days, you're good to add the next lot


Okay stupid question how will I know which group that is lol


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## Phoenix24

The biggest fish first, or the messiest (if you were getting any kind of cichlid, for example) - which would be anything that eats a lot of protein (as opposed to algae/plant eaters).

If you wanted to add all the fish in one go all you have to do is dose the aquarium to 2ppm ammonia and wait til the bacteria can clear it in 24 hours. But its perfectly fine to add them in groups, just add the biggest fish or biggest group first, because as Naomi said, you don't want the filter adjusting to a lower ammonia production (ie bacteria die back, meaning less bacteria).


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## Meezey

Phoenix24 said:


> The biggest fish first, or the messiest (if you were getting any kind of cichlid, for example) - which would be anything that eats a lot of protein (as opposed to algae/plant eaters).
> 
> If you wanted to add all the fish in one go all you have to do is dose the aquarium to 2ppm ammonia and wait til the bacteria can clear it in 24 hours. But its perfectly fine to add them in groups, just add the biggest fish or biggest group first, because as Naomi said, you don't want the filter adjusting to a lower ammonia production (ie bacteria die back, meaning less bacteria).


So added 6 endlers and 5 Threadfin Raindow fish yesterday! One didn't deal well with the move and think we might loss him in the long run, rest are in displaying at each other really active, so going to add more endlers as just love them such pretty active bold little fish!! Checked water all okay!


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## Phoenix24

There's always one that gets stressed out with a move - but just keep the lights off and disturbance low, and when they've all calmed down a bit try giving them just a little food - sometimes a bit of stimulation brings the shy ones around. 

So its guppies next did you say?


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## Meezey

Phoenix24 said:


> There's always one that gets stressed out with a move - but just keep the lights off and disturbance low, and when they've all calmed down a bit try giving them just a little food - sometimes a bit of stimulation brings the shy ones around.
> 
> So its guppies next did you say?


Think rather than guppies I'll get more Endlers, small active and very handsome!!


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## Meezey

Tank now fully stocked  Got some stunning little Endlers today, and also some Cherry Shrimp, will get a few more shrimp when I know the fish don't both with them and it's all done  Really happy with them, as I'm working from home due to a fecked back, I get to look at them allllllllllllll day  The tank is now called Cat TV lol


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## Picklelily

Thanks for posting this I too am starting again with a Roma 125 so I am looking at this with interest. My tank has been set up fishless for a week so far. Must do a test tonight 

Endlers look gorgeous did you get them in a local Aquatics shop?


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