# Clicker training?



## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Has anyone here tried clicker training a cat?

I'm a big fan of Nana and Kaiser on you-tube, if you don't know them here they are in action Cat vs Dog: A Trick Contest - YouTube but cool as this is I never wanted to train a cat to do tricks.

However, Molly is sometimes bored as Bobby sleeps a lot, and she is intelligent. She is very food-driven. She also has issues with people, and certain situations, which we're working hard to help her overcome. The biggest issue for her is loving being stroked and neck massage but she clearly struggles with affection emotionally. So I was wondering if some kind of training might help our bonding, give her a mental challenge, and give us some time together that isn't constant physical activity or the affection she wants but struggles to accept. We would still have those as well of course, this is an extra not a replacement!

I have not yet bought a clicker but tonight we have spent just 5 minutes beginning to learn "sit on the mat" and she is picking it up very quickly (for Dreamies!)

I'd welcome any thoughts on whether this is a good idea or bad idea, how to clicker train, whether this might help, and basically any other thoughts on the whole question, your experiences very welcome, negative and positive.


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## Citrineblue (Sep 28, 2012)

I loved training Harvey, you know if a cat is right for training. It sounds as if your cat would love it. Harvey was quick to associate command, sign ,action and treat.

I tried a clicker and can see how it would work, however for me a sign, voice and treat was enough juggling to do without the clicker. Harvey can sit, paw, jump,down, up and roll over.

When we go for a walk he will come to the shake of the harness and turn reversing so I can get his harness on. Luna our youngest now does the same.

I do have an old YouTube clip somewhere






Not all the tricks and better later on in the clip but you get the idea


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Thanks CB and I love your clip, Harvey is a stunner! Like the hand signals, that looks like a natural way to learn too. I found my friend's dog responds better with a hand signal than without. Also like that you signal that the session is done. 

I've started with sit on the mat because I'm thinking this is a basic building block I could use to progress to things that are challenging for her, like walking into the carrier when I want her to ... could this possibly work? I got the idea from horses doing film work!

After a while Bobby comes over wanting to know what the Dreamies are for so I give him some then do one last mat with Molly and end it there. Should I do that or is it better to carry on and maybe teach him as well? My plan is to work with Molly while he is asleep normally.


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## Citrineblue (Sep 28, 2012)

I think training to the carrier would be a great idea, lots of positive reinforcement for an item that could easily be associated with stress.

I have to say I gave up trying to train the cats together, too much distraction. I just kept the association to my voice, hands and treats if there was a click of the fridge or anything he would get distracted so I train when it is just him and me!!

You maybe luckier I must try training with little Luna , she is similar to Harvey in attitude.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Citrineblue said:


> I think training to the carrier would be a great idea, lots of positive reinforcement for an item that could easily be associated with stress.
> 
> I have to say I gave up trying to train the cats together, too much distraction. I just kept the association to my voice, hands and treats if there was a click of the fridge or anything he would get distracted so I train when it is just him and me!!
> 
> You maybe luckier I must try training with little Luna , she is similar to Harvey in attitude.


Ok well the trainer needs training so as much as I'm going to enjoy learning with Molly I will have loads of questions! Unfortunately Bobby sleeping is the best we're going to get, if one of them leaves the room the other can't concentrate on a toy!

Yes the carrier is a source of stress, it's always left out so it's fine but she's not a pick-up cat so I hope to get her to walk in on request, be calm while I close the door, stay calm when I pick it up and walk around, and then the only real stress will be leaving the house for which Bobby will be in the other carrier. She was 3 hours late coming to me because her previous slave could not catch her, so that puts a scale on the carrier issue hopefully.

How do you know if they are up for training? Do you reward every time even when they do it spot on every time?


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## Citrineblue (Sep 28, 2012)

I noted with Harvey that if I did something like opening the food drawer or opening the treat bag he came immediately within the first feel days of having him. Also although treat motivated he was calm about it not trying to bite the treat out of your hand, I sort of just knew. Reuben our second cat is just sooooo eager for treats that he cannot think of anything else!!

To answer your second question, a reward was given anytime there was an approximation to the skill wanted. For paw, I would lift his paw by bringing my hand underneath it and raising it. At the same time I would say paw, quickly he would tentatively move the paw slightly so he would get a treat continuing to also nudge the paw higher. So any slight move to the right behaviour was rewarded. The same went for hand and voice signals. I always trained with voice and hand but occasionally tried a command with just a hand signal, any response was rewarded. On the video you can see how down is achieved , just place the treat on the floor whilst they're sitting and pull it slowly away their body drops to follow with their nose and another treat is eaten!! Roll over, you get them into down then lift the treat in a circle motion whilst cuddling rolling them over calmly, he started by following with his head and body slightly , so a treat! Then eventually the whole body, yea .

Jump, put treat onto a close not too high or far surface, any behaviour going towards the treat that could be deemed a jump was rewarded. If he wasn't getting it I would give up on that session to finish on a positive. I would then wait in another session, trying a different surface or until he did the move on an occasion naturally and I would shout jump 

I hope thT helps a little.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Yes it does, thank you very much  

I've patted the mat with a treat in my hand saying Molly sit on the mat (which is a bit long but she seems to be getting it ok) then reward for 2 paws on it, then she naturally seems to sit so I give her another one - does that sound like it?

Once she's got that licked I thought we could move the mat half way into the carrier. Sounds like a big step but she will already walk into it of her own accord occasionally so she won't have a problem with it I don't think.

Could I take the same approach for gradually teaching her to be touched on her sides and picked up? I'm apprehensive about that and I don't know if she will ever allow me to pick her up happily but any progress towards knowing I'm not going to hurt her if I touch her sides will be positive!


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

I tried with mine and failed. Going to try with the Siamese though as they seem to be one of the more intelligent breeds. I am looking forward to seeing how you get on. 

CB I am going to have a look at your videos to give me some ideas.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

oggers86 said:


> I tried with mine and failed. Going to try with the Siamese though as they seem to be one of the more intelligent breeds. I am looking forward to seeing how you get on.
> 
> CB I am going to have a look at your videos to give me some ideas.


Thanks Oggers, she is intelligent,, she only had to be told twice not to scratch the sofa and took 3 days to learn we get no titbits if we're on the table. I just want to give her some mental stimulation and help her gain confidence, and build our relationship. So failing to achieve isn't a problem at all. I am new to actively training so we will learn together!

Good luck with your Siamese, I've always heard they are almost doglike in their trainability


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

ForeverHome said:


> Thanks Oggers, she is intelligent,, she only had to be told twice not to scratch the sofa and took 3 days to learn we get no titbits if we're on the table. I just want to give her some mental stimulation and help her gain confidence, and build our relationship. So failing to achieve isn't a problem at all. I am new to actively training so we will learn together!
> 
> Good luck with your Siamese, I've always heard they are almost doglike in their trainability


I am not 100% convinced that these two are all together there sometimes so that could explain it!! Still what they lack in brains they make up for in cuteness


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## loxx (Aug 23, 2013)

CB just watched your video, Harvey is lovely  out of curiosity will he do the trick with out the treats?


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## Citrineblue (Sep 28, 2012)

loxx said:


> CB just watched your video, Harvey is lovely  out of curiosity will he do the trick with out the treats?


Yes he will as even though I was cutting the treats in half we were going through a few too many. He loves a stroke and a tickle, I think he's so distracted by the face scrunch tickle that he forgets he hasn't had a treat. If training again I would have limited the treats more but initially it is a great way to entice them to lie down or roll over.


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## Little Zooey (Feb 4, 2014)

I don't know if it's of any help, but I've clicker trained several feral cats and also our llamas. Did you know it was first designed as "hands off" training for dolphins? For that reason I like it with llamas, who are much more twitchy about being touched than horses. I too can't be bothered with tricks, but I trained our llamas to come to a cat toy (feathers on a stick) and also to load in a trailer.

It's been really good with the ferals though, but I use a ball point pen rather than a dog clicker. Once they get the idea, you can really shape their behaviour. We have an ex-feral boy in the bedroom right now - he was rejected by two owners as a kitten for being too wild. The second time the breeder (our neighbour) had to go and retrieve him from a chimney!

I only got as far as teaching him to come and touch my leg - everything else pretty much followed after that. The problem is that I can't move anywhere upstairs without him glued to my side!


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Little Zooey said:


> I don't know if it's of any help, but I've clicker trained several feral cats and also our llamas. Did you know it was first designed as "hands off" training for dolphins? For that reason I like it with llamas, who are much more twitchy about being touched than horses. I too can't be bothered with tricks, but I trained our llamas to come to a cat toy (feathers on a stick) and also to load in a trailer.
> 
> It's been really good with the ferals though, but I use a ball point pen rather than a dog clicker. Once they get the idea, you can really shape their behaviour. We have an ex-feral boy in the bedroom right now - he was rejected by two owners as a kitten for being too wild. The second time the breeder (our neighbour) had to go and retrieve him from a chimney!
> 
> I only got as far as teaching him to come and touch my leg - everything else pretty much followed after that. The problem is that I can't move anywhere upstairs without him glued to my side!


Funny you should say that, I had a look at clickers yesterday and thought exactly that, ball point pen 

So LZ is it just a matter of wait till she wanders into the carrier, click and treat? Then build up from there?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Not cats I know but this talks about crate training for an animal that may not like it 
The Importance of Choice in Animal Training - YouTube

You use the clicker to mark the behaviour you want. So charge it up first click then treat so they learn the click means a treat is coming. Then work on your timing that's the most tricky bit especially for the uncoordinated. It can be any sound as long as it's consistent, they use whistles for marine mammals.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Thanks Nicky, that's nice I like it. Gives me more focus. I was wondering whether it was ok to start by tempting them in with treats. The first attempt I had with the mat was a really good session till Bobby smelled Dreamies and then Molly got more interested in whether he had more than she did and that was session ended. Will have to use a treat he's not fussed about and make sure he's asleep!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

You can start by throwing treats into the crate :yesnod: anything that gets them to see it as a good place to be. I think the problem with cats is for a lot the only association they have is being rounded up and taken to the vets. I wouldn't like something if the only time I saw it was to go to the doctors.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> You can start by throwing treats into the crate :yesnod: anything that gets them to see it as a good place to be. I think the problem with cats is for a lot the only association they have is being rounded up and taken to the vets. I wouldn't like something if the only time I saw it was to go to the doctors.


Yes agreed, that's why mine are out permanently and sometimes get used as a bed or a catnip house. Molly's issue isn't being in the crate, it's being handled. So I figured if I can get her to walk in on command so much the better. Training will be bonding, building trust and quality time together, as well as stimulating her intelligence and giving her something to do - all of those are needed for her.

If we achieve it, fantastic. If not, well so what we're going to get loads of benefit from trying. Plus I will learn loads. They say, don't they, that if you act like you have 10 minutes it will take all day and if you act like you have all day it could take 10 minutes. Pat Parelli I believe?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

You can work on handling with it too I'm sure. Have a look at someone like Kikopup, the videos are aimed at dogs but the principles are the same. Even if you're just spending a few minutes teaching a silly trick then you're still bonding with her and stimulating her. Remember to keep the sessions short at first only a couple of minutes.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> You can work on handling with it too I'm sure. Have a look at someone like Kikopup, the videos are aimed at dogs but the principles are the same. Even if you're just spending a few minutes teaching a silly trick then you're still bonding with her and stimulating her. Remember to keep the sessions short at first only a couple of minutes.


Oh as short as that, ok will do. I think I'll leave handling till she walks up to me and sits in my space of her own accord. Everything is arse about face with this one. She bonded with Bobby immediately but with me it's a long long journey  
Past traumas


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

ForeverHome said:


> Oh as short as that, ok will do. I think I'll leave handling till she walks up to me and sits in my space of her own accord. Everything is arse about face with this one. She bonded with Bobby immediately but with me it's a long long journey
> Past traumas


An ad break on the tv is a good time to do it. The good thing about clicker training is the cat is able to choose whether or not to interact with you so it helps build the confidence. I hope it helps her poor meow


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Aw thanks Nicky we don't have a telly but we'll find sessions in the day. She has made amazing progress really. Ok so I've adjusted a lot to her too.


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

My daughter used to have fun with two of ours when she was younger, before GSCEs and A levels took up all her time. They loved it, no attention is bad attention as far as a Burmese is concerned - they were very trainable. She got them to follow a Harry Potter style wand over an indoor obstacle of cushions, chairs, go through hoops etc, and being intelligent, they picked it up very quickly and eagerly. The odd times we've got the clicker out since proves they haven't forgotten. 

Raffles on the other hand really was not co-operative at all. He wasn't food driven so he wasn't interesting during the early stages of 'charging the clicker' to associate it with rewards of treats.


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## Little Zooey (Feb 4, 2014)

ForeverHome said:


> Funny you should say that, I had a look at clickers yesterday and thought exactly that, ball point pen
> 
> So LZ is it just a matter of wait till she wanders into the carrier, click and treat? Then build up from there?


Sorry - I don't get a lot of time to read posts, so apologies if I don't appear to have caught up. First of all you just need to click/reward, click/reward, until they associate the click with something nice. Later on you don't even need to reward EVERY time, just the click will make them happy. The best thing is to break down the training into small chunks. For example, one of our llamas was impossible to load. I started away from the trailer and just got him to step up. Then I walked him past the side of the trailer with the ramp up. Then with the ramp down. Then we had the front ramp down and just walked him all the way through. So you see... you add a bit each time.

If you want to train your cat to be good in a carrier, then I might go for one where you can take the top off. Have the cat sit or stand near the bottom part and click/reward. Later they have to put one paw on the bottom before you click. Then put a treat in the middle of the bottom and click when they eat it. Next day add the top of the carrier, but without the bars at the front and go through the same process. Sitting close, touching, then entering. The next day you can add the bars without closing, then with and build up the time spent inside.

This may be a bit OTT, but for really problem animals this method works well


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

No probs LZ I spend too much time on here when I should be doing other things :blushing:

Thank you that's a great help, I can skip the early stages you describe because she's not afraid of walking into the carrier, just the going places part and the being handled to go in it part. 

I'll keep working on it slowly with her and update as we go.


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## Little Zooey (Feb 4, 2014)

ForeverHome said:


> No probs LZ I spend too much time on here when I should be doing other things :blushing:
> 
> Thank you that's a great help, I can skip the early stages you describe because she's not afraid of walking into the carrier, just the going places part and the being handled to go in it part.
> 
> I'll keep working on it slowly with her and update as we go.


Good luck and don't feel guilty about the forum. We both work and have nearly 40 animals to care for. I shouldn't be on here at all!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

The click should always mean a reward but eventually once they learn the behaviour you stop treating everytime. So you ask for a sit say, then ask them to sit for longer or maybe stand from the sit before you give them the treat. Eventually you won't need the click or a treat although this may not be possible with cats as it is with dogs. Although the movie cats seem to do ok without it :skep:


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## Sophiebee (Jul 9, 2013)

I love mine and lokis training sessions, i really do think that if you have a cat who enjoys it its a great way to bond. I found the clicker, command, hand signal and treat abit much so we dont use a clicker, but loki now knows sit, high five, and lie down.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

I am going to love this ... we haven't started yet though, as there's been too much going on already. Have spent about 3 hours trying to chop up 1.2kg of raw turkey for the freezer in 100g pots ... can you guess what's happened? They have decided they want raw. Almost the whole tin has gone in the bin today.


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