# Is this a pure Scottish Fold?



## catme (Feb 13, 2014)

Hey Everyone. I am about to get my first cat for someone who knows a lot about them so I don't want to get the wrong one. I also cant ask the person because its a surprise. This sound like a good place to get some feedback!

In the attached picture, does it look like a good Scottish fold cat? The mother is supposed to be a 100% scottish fold and the father is a mix of Persian and something else. Does it make much difference of what breed of the cats parents are? If so, what are considered quality breeds of a Scottish Fold?

Thanks for your help and suggestion.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Are you aware of the health problems that beset many of these cats ?


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## catme (Feb 13, 2014)

The only health problem I was aware about is that if both parents are Scottish Fold and have the folded ear. Other than that I don't know of any issues specific to this breed. Are there some obvious ones to look out for?


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Osteochondrodysplasia (OCD) is a developmental abnormality that affects cartilage and bone development throughout the body. This condition causes the fold in the breed and in studies conducted so far, all folded cats are affected by it.[12] Homozygous folds are affected by malformed bone structures and develop severe painful degenerative joint diseases at an early age. This condition also affect heterozygous folds, but usually to a much lesser extent and at a later age. Some will be asymptomatic.
While ethical breeders breed Fold/non-fold and not Fold/Fold (in the same way Munchkins are bred) to avoid producing homozygous folds,[3] because heterozygous folds can also develop progressive arthritis of varying severity, some researchers recommend abandoning the breeding of folded cats entirely.[6][13] For this reason the breed is not accepted by either the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy[14] or the Fédération Internationale Féline.[15]


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## catme (Feb 13, 2014)

Thanks! Mostly I've read that is bred fold/non-fold that its rarely a problem but I am a little concerned now. They are a great short hair cat (without being bald) that seem to be better for an apartment than most. I will try to research a few other with a similar look and being short haired. Any suggestions?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

OSTEOCHONDRODYSPLASIA SCOTTISH FOLD

1. * Brief description*

The feature that defines the Scottish fold breed is the forward folding of the ears. This folding is due to osteochondrodysplasia, a developmental abnormality of the cartilage which would normally support the ear. Osteochondrodysplasia also has devastating effects on cartilage and bone development elsewhere in the body.

The Scottish fold breed originated in Scotland in the 1960s from matings of a cat with a naturally occurring mutation in which its ears folded forward, to local farm cats and British Shorthairs. The breed became recognised by the governing council of the Cat Fancy of Great Britain a few years later. However, by 1974 it had been excluded from their list of recognised breeds due to the crippling deformity of the limbs and tail that was evident in the breed. It is also banned by the Fédération Internationale Féline, an international cat fancy society. Breeders in the USA and elsewhere in the world have continued to perpetuate the breed (Malik et al 1999).

All cats with folded ears develop osteochondrodysplasia. In cats which are homozygous for the abnormal gene (ie having two copies of it), a progressive, crippling arthritis develops early in life whilst in those which are heterozygous (with only one mutant gene), the arthritis tends to progress more slowly (Malik 2001).

Affected cats may be grossly deformed, with short wide limbs and a short, inflexible tail. They show lameness, swollen wrist (carpal) and ankle (tarsal) joints, have an abnormal gait, and are reluctant to move and jump. Severely affected individuals become crippled and unable to walk.

2. *Intensity of welfare impact *

In all homozygous folded-eared cats this condition causes deformities and progressive joint disease leading to crippling disability associated with significant pain. Many affected cats are euthanased earlier in life due to the profound effects of this disease.

In some heterozygous individuals the condition may be very mild but in others there can be significant joint disease and deformity leading to pain and disability.

3. *Duration of welfare impact*

In homozygous cats, lesions and bone abnormalities are evident on x-rays from 7 weeks of age (Jackson 1975). Significant disease has been shown to occur in some heterozygous individuals from as young as 6 months of age (Matthews et al 1995, Malik et al 1999).

4. *Number of animals affected*

All homozygous cats are severely affected. All heterozygous individuals are affected but to varying degrees(Malik et al 1999, Chang et al 2007).

5. *Diagnosis*

The diagnosis can be confirmed with radiographs (x-rays) or using CT (computer tomography) or MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans.

6. *Genetics*

Osteochondrodysplasia in Scottish folds is an autosomal dominant condition which is now believed to have incomplete dominance (ie the possession of a dominant gene does not completely mask the effect of the other gene that has been inherited (Takanosu et al 2008)).

7. *How do you know if an animal is a carrier or likely to become affected?*

There are no carriers of the gene which are not, themselves, affected: all folded-eared cats develop osteochondrodysplasia to some extent.

8. *Methods and prospects for elimination of the problem*

Cessation of breeding from any cats with folded ears would eliminate this condition within a generation (Malik et al 1999).​


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If you want a genuine Scottish Fold you need to buy from a breeder who registers their kittens. The GCCF don't register them and I have no idea what breeds are allowed by TICA, CFA or other registry.

You ask 'is this a good Scottish Fold'. I don't know if you mean 'is it a show bench example' or 'is an actual Scottish Fold'. Clearly it has folded ears, but beyond that sorry can't help.

The British Shorthair might be a good breed in your situation, and the shorthair Selkirk Rex. Most other shorthair breeds are more manic, and one on it's own would probably be bored and get into a lot of trouble.

BTW what country are you in?


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## catme (Feb 13, 2014)

Sorry, by "good" I just mean if it looks like how a Scottish fold should look or looks like another breed but I do see now that is mostly a Scottish fold since 100% pure is definitely not recommended.

I previously looked into a British Shorthaired which I like but cant seem to get over that they loos so much like Garfield I never heard of a Shorthair Selkirk Rex but just looked it up and really like it except they are very rare around here (USA, NY)


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I would steer clear of folds and munchkins altogether, as their so-called breed characteristics are in truth hereditary deformities, which affect other aspects of their health besides the 'cute' characteristic. 

If people were to aim at breeding children with dwarfism, cleft palate or Down syndrome, or morbidly obese children, 'because they look cute', how would you feel? Still, this is what breeding cats with folded ears or short legs is all about, accepting a number of genuine hereditary health hazards because one of the characteristics of these hereditary problems 'looks cute'.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

TICA registers Scotish Folds, but any genuine breeder wouldn't let you buy the cat as a surprise for someone else without meeting that someone first, so I'd steer clear.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

I agree with the other posters. I'd be wary and if you do decide on the breed, do do your research properly and find a very good breeder. It's already a risky breed so getting one from a byb would just be unwise.

As Carly says, TICA does recognize the breed so perhaps go on from there.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

carly87 said:


> TICA registers Scotish Folds, but any genuine breeder wouldn't let you buy the cat as a surprise for someone else without meeting that someone first, so I'd steer clear.


I would never buy a cat for someone as a surprise, period.
A cat is not a toy, it is a 20-year commitment, and liking, or even loving, the looks is not enough. You need to have a genuine click in personality. The slave needs to be genuinely committed to caring for the cat, and they need to find the cat that really 'speaks to them'.

In my personal experience, it is the cat that chooses the slave, not the other way round. When I fall in love with a cat, I apply for the job of personal carer, and if I am lucky, the cat will accept me.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

To be completely honest, my cat (pipje) was a surprise and she is very much loved. But also to be completely honest, I would probably not home a kitten who will be a surprise!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Yes, they look like scottish folds - but is it really a good idea to get a living creature as a 'surprise' for someone, no matter how much they love cats?

If this person wanted a pet, surely they would have got one for themselves. It may be that they aren't in a position to cope with a pet just yet, and it will put them in an uncomfortable position.

You don't want the cat to end up getting given away - I would make sure that your friend wants a kitten and is in a position to keep one.

I don't mean this to sound nasty, but animals are too precious to risk them going to a home where they aren't really wanted.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> ]I would never buy a cat for someone as a surprise, period.[/B]
> A cat is not a toy, it is a 20-year commitment, and liking, or even loving, the looks is not enough. You need to have a genuine click in personality. The slave needs to be genuinely committed to caring for the cat, and they need to find the cat that really 'speaks to them'.
> 
> In my personal experience, it is the cat that chooses the slave, not the other way round. When I fall in love with a cat, I apply for the job of personal carer, and if I am lucky, the cat will accept me.


Whoops! Sorry! I have said the same thing but I hadn't read all the posts.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Please, don't give a live animal as a "surprise" to anyone, ever. Pet choices can be very personal, and surprise implies that the person is not expecting nor is prepared to have a pet. This is very unfair to the animal.

If it is the purchase price that is actually the gift, make up a certificate in a card saying something along the lines of this card entitles you to one kitten of your choice, send the bill to me, or any kind of nicely worded thing like that.

NEVER give a live animal as a gift.

To answer your title question this statement in your first post:



> The mother is supposed to be a 100% scottish fold and the father is a mix of Persian and something else.


tells you that no, this is not a "pure" scottish fold. A "pure" bred of any breed has the pedigree to prove parents and their parents and so on. Also, be aware, purchasing from the internet, the pictures may not even be of any actual kittens they may have.

Don't support back yard breeders. If it's only the look you are after, not a pedigreed purebred, contact breed rescues, or have a look in your local shelter. Otherwise research and investigate any "breeder" heavily before making a purchase.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

lorilu said:


> tells you that no, this is not a "pure" scottish fold. A "pure" bred of any breed has the pedigree to prove parents and their parents and so on. Also, be aware, purchasing from the internet, the pictures may not even be of any actual kittens they may have.


The breeding of Scottish Folds is a complex issue - in some ways, no Folds are 100% pure. People avoid breeding two together, as that means some kittens will be born with serious deformities.

So instead, they breed to a non-Folded kitten from a Scottish Fold litter, OR many registries allow outcrosses to British Shorthair (possibly other breeds). It depends on the registry. Some may allow breeding to long-haired breeds to produce the Long-haired Fold.

It's the same situation as with Manx - two tailless/partially tailed Manx bred together is not allowed as that is also problematic, so using British Shorthairs or fully tailed Manx is permitted.


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## catme (Feb 13, 2014)

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

BTW, the "someone" is my wife who loves cats and had plenty in the past. We decided to get one again and this was a breed she mentioned she though was nice. However, we never got to a conclusion of actually getting one and I though I would "surprise" her finally getting it. Def will take her to see it right before I buy it.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I know of Scottish breeders, but I didn't think Persians were in the allowed outcross, I thought it was just british shorthairs?

oh and No good breeder will sell a kitten as a surprise gift! They will want to meet both of you and ask you loads of questions


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## catme (Feb 13, 2014)

We are now over a Scottish fold cat but we see options for a Scottish straight. They look like a Scottish fold face but have straight ears. Does this mean they don't have the chance of getting the Osteochondrodysplasia disease?

Also, is tica.org the only good source for breeders? Online I mostly get results for home breeders in my area.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Why not take her on a surprise outing to a responsible, ethical breeder (which has been informed by you beforehand and has kittens to choose from) and choose a kitten together? It would be a very thoughtful and romantic way to find your new 'baby'....
You might even consider visiting a rescue, most of which are full to the brim with cats people no longer wanted, or could no longer afford, or whose owner has died. These poor souls are longing for a loving home, and there are so many lovely, beautiful cats in rescues, pedigree cats too....

I know folds look cute, but, personally, I'd never take the risk, as the folded ears are an expression of a hereditary flaw that may result in a very painful affliction for the cat - and humongous vet bills. In 'pure' Scottish folds (fold x fold), this disability is so severe and painful that breeding a cat with this deformity should be considered as downright torture. Even though it is less severe in cross-bred cats, it may still be very disabling and extremely painful, and when buying a healthy-looking kitten, you can never be really sure the extent of the ailment will be - and remain - subclinical or even just bearable. It would be a constant source of worry and a high risk to take, both for you and for the cat itself. And in buying one, you are promoting the 'breed' and encouraging people to keep breeding cats with what is in effect a disabling genetic defect.

There are so many lovely cats, pure-breds as well as moggies, so I am sure you will find your perfect kitten. Do take the breed personality into account, too, and find a cat with a personality that appeals to you both, as a breed and as an individual.


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## catme (Feb 13, 2014)

Thanks, thats a great comment.

We have now started looking together because I don't want to risk it on my own. Scottish Fold is out of the questions now because she could not bare the though of what can happen. It very unfortunate though because reading about their personalty made them a perfect can, for us and the kids.

We are back to searching with 2 turnoffs, long hair and tall ears. Look-wise the Chartreux, Cymric, Napoleon, British Shorthair, Selkirk Rex, Manx, and possibly American Shorthair are candidates but its so hard to find any breeder in the area. 

One options in the area is a Scottish Straight eared. Their face looks like the Scottish fold (without the actual fold) and they presumably have the same great attitude. Does this mean that they don't have the bone sickness that Scottish Fold tend to get?


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## Citrineblue (Sep 28, 2012)

I know someone mentioned a Shorthaired Curly Selkirk. They have a temperament which is similar to a permanent kitten like fun loving BSH. A little cheeky. The photo shows Monty who is 1 yr 3 months , our big teddy bear  it may give you another choice of breed.


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## catme (Feb 13, 2014)

Wow, very very nice. Where can we get one!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

catme said:


> One options in the area is a Scottish Straight eared. Their face looks like the Scottish fold (without the actual fold) and they presumably have the same great attitude. Does this mean that they don't have the bone sickness that Scottish Fold tend to get?


Have you looked to see if there are any cat shows in your area? Or even just a little further afield?

If there is one, you will see a lot of breeds and be able to talk to breeders, but be sure you pick ones that do all the health testing required for that breed.

Instead, why not look in your local shelter? I am sure there will be many cats and kittens needing a home - some may look like pedigrees, but you will certainly come home with a cat that suits you, not just in looks.

If you really have set your heart on a certain breed though - after going to a cat show together and getting more into it - you will find your match.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

best wishes on your journey , i hope we get to be pf aunties and uncles


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I don't know where you're based, but there's actually a big TICA show in Doncaster this weekend that you could come and have a look at.


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## catme (Feb 13, 2014)

I am all the way in USA New York, nothing very close by any time soon.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

catme said:


> I am all the way in USA New York, nothing very close by any time soon.


There are quite a few different show organisations in the USA.
TICA
CFA
ACFA
and probably more. Check them all out to find shows.


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I never realised that the Scottish fold was so afflicted!! those kittens were so cute though, but why would anyone bred animals to be so deformed and cause pain? Dreadful.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

catme said:


> I am all the way in USA New York, nothing very close by any time soon.


Hey, me too!


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

catme said:


> Sorry, by "good" I just mean if it looks like how a Scottish fold should look or looks like another breed but I do see now that is mostly a Scottish fold since 100% pure is definitely not recommended.


It is highly recommended to crossbreed Scottish Fold to a British Shorthair in every generation to avoid possible osteochondrodysplasia, so a Foldie x BSH would be a 100% Scottish as long as it's registered. Kittens from this mating are all foldies, never to be registered as BSHs no matter what their ears are like.
Mating a Scottish Fold with a Scottish Straight should be avoided, as sometimes there are 'false straights' (specially with BYBs as the quality isn't usually that good), the kitten (or even an adult) with folded ears may have it's ears go straight up again (foldies are born with straight ears) so it looks like a Scottish Straight and could then be mistakenly registered and/or treated as a Straight which it genetically wouldn't be.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

catme said:


> but its so hard to find any breeder in the area.


Just like over here, kittens are routinely flown to their new homes in the US, you aren't restricted to just local breeders, and since several of the breeds you mentioned are rare you'll likely have to go to another state.

The US cat associations listed in a previous post should have either a breeder listing or someone you can contact, also try FBRL.
And many breeds also have facebook groups you can join to ask for breeder recommendations.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

If you are really eager to add a cat to your family, why not visit a local rescue or shelter? You may find some adorable moggy, or even a pedigree cat there that will capture your heart in an instant.

We all go by looks and breed characteristics when forming an opinion of which cats we might like, but at a rescue you can meet dozens of cats with no obligations, no reservation costs prior to your visit, and you just might find your perfect match. 
If you don't find the cat of your dreams there, no harm done, and you can still continue your search for shows and breeders - or other rescues, for that matter.... 

Finding the right cat is like finding the love of your life. You may believe tall and blonde is your type, but in the end, your perfect match may turn out to be a tiny brunette.....
I can see you set out to get a British Shorthair or Scottish Straight and go home with a three-legged moggy, a huge Maine Coon cuddle bear or a dainty Singapura.....


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## korrok (Sep 4, 2013)

I agree with Jisk really..shorthaired cats with smaller ears and a more, uh, flat face are not uncommon in moggies. Look up some websites of local rescues and see the cats they have available, or go visit one together! Since you are not stuck on a particular breed I am 100% sure you will find a wee cat to melt your heart. And you'll feel good about giving a cat a second chance, as well as teaching the kids a good lesson.


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## KittenNoob (Feb 13, 2014)

rose said:


> I never realised that the Scottish fold was so afflicted!! those kittens were so cute though, but why would anyone bred animals to be so deformed and cause pain? Dreadful.


Neither did i! We had considered a Scottish Fold because of the cute factor but hadn't fully researched the breed because we fell in love with the Burmese breed but anyway! This is pretty awful to be honest, this really shouldn't be allowed AT ALL! Breeding an animal that will have an illness from the get go is just wrong, completely!

To the OP, have you look at Burmese? They make great apartment cats, recommended to be indoor cats, lovable and affectionate?


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