# Penny's Progress



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I'm going to start this thread to update on Penny and hopefully also include tips on how to deal with a new dog in the house, share mistakes and how to overcome them, deal with issues as they come up, and basically everything that is adding a new dog to your household. 
Hopefully this will be helpful, entertaining, or something!

Bates - current dog, 12 year old large muttdog, good smattering of lab and bull breed in him. 
Penny - new dog, tiny chihuahua looking thing. Somewhere around one or two years old. 
For more info on how Penny came to us, check out this thread:
https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/well-i-might-as-well-fess-up.530404/

I'm going to be jumping around as things come up and as I think of things.

Today's post is about recall. Where with live, a solid recall is non negotiable.
Penny's default is to run away when she gets spooked, and she is easily spooked. So in addition to working on a really good recall, I'm also going to have to help her learn that safety is with her humans, not away form them. That's a post for another day.

Back to recall. 
You would think it's an easy enough thing, all the dog has to learn is to come to you when they hear their name, but from the dog's point of view, there are a lot of criteria. For starters, the dog has to actually know their name, and Penny doesn't know her name yet. (I'm lying at the end of the second video when I say she does  )

For the next several videos you may wonder where is the 'teaching recall' part. Well, that part is a long, long way off. All I'm doing now is laying the foundation for what will later become a recall.

Penny is young, but not puppy young where I can capitalize on a lot of puppy tendencies to want to be with you so I'm going to have to capitalize on other things. In Penny's case she is very interested in food and treats. She also likes pets and, well, she likes me okay too. As the opportunity arises, I'll incorporate sniffing as a motivator also because she definitely finds sniffing fun.

Enjoy and feel free to ask away about anything I'm doing


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I think it’s a lovely idea. I already adore Penny(great name) and would love progress updates.
Great she gives you an ear of attention. Heidi has pretty good recall to her name but “what’s this” is great back up. 
Could be a stepping stone for Penny while she adjusts to her name.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> I'm going to start this thread to update on Penny and hopefully also include tips on how to deal with a new dog in the house, share mistakes and how to overcome them, deal with issues as they come up, and basically everything that is adding a new dog to your household.
> Hopefully this will be helpful, entertaining, or something!
> 
> Bates - current dog, 12 year old large muttdog, good smattering of lab and bull breed in him.
> ...


She's so freaking cute! And it's nice to hear your voice - I don't know how I imagined you to sound, but it wasn't like that


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sairy said:


> She's so freaking cute! And it's nice to hear your voice - I don't know how I imagined you to sound, but it wasn't like that


Ha ha! I hate hearing myself on tape/video whatever.



Mum2Heidi said:


> Heidi has pretty good recall to her name but "what's this" is great back up.
> Could be a stepping stone for Penny while she adjusts to her name.


Ha ha, yes a lot of dogs have 'alternate' recall words  
In Penny's case, she wouldn't know what "what's this" means any more than she would know her name. 
I will definitely teach her expressions like "what's this" especially when I start incorporating sniffing in as a reward, but for now it's all about learning that "Penny" = all sorts of good things happening to her.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Ha ha! I hate hearing myself on tape/video whatever.
> 
> Ha ha, yes a lot of dogs have 'alternate' recall words
> In Penny's case, she wouldn't know what "what's this" means any more than she would know her name.
> I will definitely teach her expressions like "what's this" especially when I start incorporating sniffing in as a reward, but for now it's all about learning that "Penny" = all sorts of good things happening to her.


It always amazes me the number of people who come to classes having not taught their pup its name.

Handler: "yeah he knows his name"
Me: "OK then, call him"
Handler: "Sampson, Sampson, Sampson... Sampson
Dog: (continues to sniff and completely ignores handler)
Me:" yeah you need to work on teaching him his name" :Hilarious


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## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

She's lovely. Just read your other thread. I ended up with a few dogs that way when I lived in the U.S. myself. Not necessarily on a chain, but found wandering with no tag no chip no one looking for them.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Loving her tiny pink harness! She seems so happy & chilled considering. Looking forwarding to reading of your progress together


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Cleo38 said:


> Loving her tiny pink harness! She seems so happy & chilled considering. Looking forwarding to reading of your progress together


The kids convinced me to go with pink, or in the words of my daughter "mama, she's kind of funny looking, she's going to need the pink to make her pretty and so people know she's a girl" :Hilarious:Hilarious
Who knew I'd end up with a frou frou dog!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> The kids convinced me to go with pink, or in the words of my daughter "*mama, she's kind of funny looking, she's going to need the pink to make her pretty and so people know she's a girl*" :Hilarious:Hilarious
> Who knew I'd end up with a frou frou dog!


Doesn't work. . I have a neighbour who insists on calling Milly 'son'. Despite her pink camo fleece, pink collar which did have a matching lead (bro managed to lose it during a walk while he was looking after them), and countless times when I've used her name right in front of him. I've given up correcting him.

And yet, he knows Honey is a female. 

When Max was alive, and people asked whether they were girls or boys, I'd reply "one of each", and the number of times people pointed him out as the girl. :Facepalm :Wacky So when one dog walker correctly identified Milly as the girl, I was startled into response. "Finally, someone got it right!" I said.
She looked as bemused as I had eons ago and said. "But . . . She's wearing a _pink_ fleece?!" 
I nodded and said, "I know! They _still_ assume she's a he."

People ask with Honey.  :Hilarious

Anyway, I love the name Penny and she really has landed on her little paws with you.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LOL @LinznMilly I used to dress Breez head to toe in pink and she'd still get called a "he"  But that's big dogs for you, apparently all big dogs are boys!


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

O2.0 said:


> Ha ha! I hate hearing myself on tape/video whatever.
> 
> Ha ha, yes a lot of dogs have 'alternate' recall words
> In Penny's case, she wouldn't know what "what's this" means any more than she would know her name.
> I will definitely teach her expressions like "what's this" especially when I start incorporating sniffing in as a reward, but for now it's all about learning that "Penny" = all sorts of good things happening to her.


Was thinking her previous owner may have said it. I hear a lot of people use "what's this" to pre empt treats when I'm out.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Sairy said:


> It always amazes me the number of people who come to classes having not taught their pup its name.
> 
> Handler: "yeah he knows his name"
> Me: "OK then, call him"
> ...


Mine obviously know their names but Candy will only come if I say Candy come. If I just say her name she ignores me. I quite like that she actually wants a command rather than just being spoken to.

Penny is looking great. She is so well lead trained she must have been a pet.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Blitz said:


> She is so well lead trained she must have been a pet.


That's a flexi :Bag
Yes, I broke down and bought a little dog 10 foot flexi leash because I knew she was going to have to be on leash for a while and I didn't want to bother with LLW for a while yet. I'm still figuring it out, but it's working well.

I think what you see as far as 'lead training' is 2 things. 
1) She's clearly very used to being tied out, OH and I were watching her just sitting in the front yard letting her go to the end of the flexi and back, and she's clearly used to stepping over the line of the leash and moving her back legs out of the way, she acts like a dog who has spent time tied out on a line. 
2) She's starting to pay attention to where I am and try to keep up, so if I'm walking, she's walking.

But no, she has no lead training. I'll definitely video that when I start teaching her a nice LLW. I need to fix several things, one she's a bad zig zagger when she's on a scent, and on a fixed leash she does pull, that will definitely need to be addressed.



Mum2Heidi said:


> Was thinking her previous owner may have said it. I hear a lot of people use "what's this" to pre empt treats when I'm out.


Considering she seems to have been tied up outside for most of her life, I'm guessing they didn't do any "what's this" or similar. I doubt she was ever walked.

The first few times I walked her she was terrified that I was following her, and that was just in the yard trying to get her to potty outside.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

The next two videos are about handling and now @Blitz is really going to think I'm crazy because I'm going to talk about her being head shy and she is anything but in these videos 
But, I've made sure to capitalize on her being sleepy and relaxed in the first video, and happy and playful in the second. But I promise, she really is hesitant about hands coming at her face! And getting massively better about it every day.

This video is the second day with us. I'm being purposeful about two things:
1) I stop petting her and assess where she is. Every time she asks for more. That's good. If she responded with a yawn (which you'll see in the second video), or looking away, that signals uncertainty, feeling conflicted. Getting up and moving away definitely I pushed too far.
But she seems totally okay with my hand all over her so I take advantage and
2) Use the opportunity to build up her tolerance and positive feelings about having her eyes, ears, and paws touched. (BTW she let me clip two toes today!)





This video is from today (Day 4) and she's starting to be comfortable enough to play 
She did nibble on my hand a little and I talk about that in the video:





And in case you think I've got this all under control, there is also a fail video. I got a little too confident in how well she was handling everything and thought I'd introduce the dremel. I went too fast and had to back off and here's the whole fail in all it's glory.


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

I love this thread already!  

Excited to see her progress - she's a very lucky pup! Love the videos and explanations too


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

She looks very relaxed with you.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

O2.0 said:


> Considering she seems to have been tied up outside for most of her life, I'm guessing they didn't do any "what's this" or similar. I doubt she was ever walked.
> 
> The first few times I walked her she was terrified that I was following her, and that was just in the yard trying to get her to potty outside.


Poor wee mite!! I didn't realise she'd had such a shocking time.
Thank goodness she has found you


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Day 5 update:
I feel like this one is going to jump around all over the place so apologies in advance for the whiplash 

Heaven help me if I ever have to train/raise a dog without a settled dog already in the household. Bates has been invaluable in helping Penny adjust. Case in point, the dremel.
In post 14 I showed you the fail with my first attempt at dremeling, here's the progression from there.





The ensuing video was over 10 minutes long so I clipped it. This is the closest she ever got, and that's fine. She saw Bates getting treats and that got her this close, I'll store that information away for later.





This is what she did for most of the session. Which is also totally fine. She didn't go in another room, she stayed near - that's huge, and she was alert and attentive, also great. She's watching Bates not die or even be remotely upset at being dremeled. I can totally work with this.





Sleeping arrangements:
Penny is a good sleeper thank goodness. The first night she was totally exhausted and we definitely capitalized on this and set her up the way I want her to sleep for now. In a crate. We set up one of our old crates in the bedroom, with us so we can help her learn sleep manners, and it's also close enough to Bates' bed that he can help too.
Bates is used to having a dog sleep there (just not in a crate) as that's where we put beds for the terrier mutt and sighthound when they come to visit, so this was not messing with his routine too much.

So first night, she slept great, let her out, took her out to potty, all good.
We do two meals a day and I fed her both meals in the crate, door shut. This didn't upset her at all, and sure enough by the third day she was going in to her crate on her own. I took this shot day 3? 4?, notice the door is open, she chose to go in there because Bates was in the bedroom. Please excuse the unmade bed and messy room.









We will eventually leave her in the crate while we're gone, she is a chewer, (makes me think she may be younger than I thought, she chews like a puppy settling their adult teeth). So the fact that she is already this comfortable with the crate is great. We'll continue to feed meals in there and have her sleep in there and then slowly work up to leaving her.
This morning I fed her in there and waited about 20 minutes after she was done to let her back out. She stayed alert the whole time looking for me (I was watching her through the bathroom mirror), but no noise and no apparent distress, just alert.

Routine:
We're settling in to a routine. She's much more active in the morning than I've been used to the last several years so leisurely coffee in the morning is going to have to get rearranged LOL.
She wakes up, quick potty outside. Then come in, I make coffee, do a few house chores (she follows me around) and then Bates is ready to go out so another quick potty walk. Back inside, a little play while I try to drink some coffee, breakfast for her and Bates, and quiet for as long as she's managing, then the first real walk of the morning. So far she has always pooped after a meal, I guess when you're that tiny you have to make room 

We've done all that this morning and after a quick play session she is out for her first nap today. When I go back to work that will be good timing for her to go settle in her crate while we're gone, until the next person gets home.

Tomorrow is her vet appointment, Bates is scheduled for his yearly then so he will come along also which should be great for her since he loves the vet 
Seriously, how do you raise a dog without a dog helper?!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sox has tried his best to shape Loki into a gentleman and wishes Bates the best. She looks like a lovely girl will the vet be able to give you an indication of age do you think ?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> She looks like a lovely girl will the vet be able to give you an indication of age do you think ?


I'd like to get a better look at her molars which helps gage how old she is, but guessing by teeth, she looks like a year or two. 
When they spay her we might find out more, but I think the closest guess we'll get is around 1 year or so.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Vet today!

Penny weighs a whopping 9 pounds, is heartworm negative, negative fecal yay! 
Estimated age 18 months, gave her puppy DHPP vaccine, with a booster in 2 weeks. And a rabies vaccine, in my name. So it's official  
She'll get chipped when we spay her.

So... speaking of spaying. She's in heat. I noticed yesterday. Thought I wasn't sure, she's very clean and Bates wasn't acting like she was and he normally notices a bitch in heat. Vet confirmed she is indeed in heat. 
The earliest they can spay is November but there's a note to call me if anyone cancels. I'm really worried she may have gotten caught before I brought her home.

Someone who knows more about canine repo help? @Rafa @Burrowzig @Blitz ?
I brought her home Saturday the 15th. I didn't notice she was in heat until Wednesday the 19th. Is it possible she might have already been caught? 
Vet palpated her thoroughly and didn't notice anything.

We're headed back to the vet in 2 weeks for her booster, I'll have the vet palpate again. 
Should I call around and find someone else to spay her or do you think I'm okay waiting until November? I absolutely refuse for her to have a litter, and if there is any chance she's pregnant, I'd rather have her done now than wait.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Anything is possible. It really is not the best idea to spay until 12 weeks after the season so personally I would leave it. Around 21 days is the only reliable time for palpating a pregnancy, not sure when the earliest you can scan is but not as early as while she is still in season. One thing you could do is see how long the season lasts and that will give you an idea of whether she could have been mated before you got her. You can give the injection to abort from quite a late date. That of course would be your other option, give her a mismate injection - bearing in mind that will extend the season so you will have more 'messy' time and more of a delay before spaying. Might be worth discussing with the vet.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh I know spaying in season isn't advised but if my choices are a spay-abort or an in-season spay I'll chose the in season spay. 
I've already called around and a spay neuter clinic 30 miles from here can take her.... I booked her for the 31st, I can change my mind, but I wanted to get her on the books at least.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Is her vulva swollen?

Have you noticed any blood loss?

Blood loss tends to begin very light/sparse and become heavier. The majority of bitches tend to become receptive when the loss stops.

The vulva usually doesn't swell until the receptive period.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Her discharge has been mostly watery red with a few redder spots here and there, but she's very clean so I haven't seen much overall. 
Then I let my mind go crazy and think it could be pyo, but of course she's eating fine, no fever, nothing that would indicate pyo. 

I'd say her vulva is big but I don't have a frame of reference since we've only had her 6 days.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

As I understand it, the increased chance of bleeding during the op is the same whether a season or pregnancy. Either way she’ll be saved from having pups.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

The blood loss normally does become watery and sparse towards the end of the first week or so, at the beginning of the receptive time.

Is she flirting with Bates at all?

If you scratch her back at the base of her tail, does she stand and flag her tail, (to one side)?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

No, no flagging, no flirting with Bates. Not flirty with me either when I pet her, though 
Bates sniffs at her rear end when she's close enough to sniff, but he doesn't go out of his way to go check her out which is odd because in the past he has gone so far as to chatter and drool at a bitch in heat. 
That's what gets the worry wart part of my brain thinking early pyo but of course she's not acting sick at all. Great appetite, energy, and nothing to indicate she doesn't feel well.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Lurcherlad said:


> As I understand it, the increased chance of bleeding during the op is the same whether a season or pregnancy. Either way she'll be saved from having pups.


A spay further on in the pregnancy (if there is one) would be harder on her than a spay now, but it would absolutely suck for the vet having to do it. 
But yes, the risk with in-season or pregnant spays is that the uterus is more vascular and you have more chance of post-op bleeding.

The place I booked her for, all they do is spay neuters, nothing else, I told them 3 times she's in heat now and if that's going to be okay with them and they said it would be. 
My own vet said they would spay her if she had come back in to heat in November (not likely but who knows), they'll do in-season spays also.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

It doesn't sound remotely like pyo to me, though I get why you're worrying.

She would be very poorly indeed and she looks so healthy in her pictures and, I assume eating well?

All indications are that she is in season and either at the beginning or end of her first stage.

Hoping not to sound like a pervert, but could you take a picture of her vulva?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> It doesn't sound remotely like pyo to me, though I get why you're worrying.
> 
> She would be very poorly indeed and she looks so healthy in her pictures and, I assume eating well?
> 
> ...


Hahahaha! Only on a pet forum LOL, yes I'll do that when my helper gets home 

Oh and yes, appetite is terrific, output is great, zero accidents in the house... Nothing to indicate she feels unwell, but if I don't leash it, my brain can wander


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Rafa said:


> Hoping not to sound like a pervert, but could you take a picture of her vulva?


This made me LOL, mainly because you're one of the last people on this forum I would ever think of as being a pervert :Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I'm so giggling now, I actually have a photo on my phone of my shorts with a few specs of blood on them that I sent to my friend to say "does this mean she's in heat?" 
Please don't laugh at me @Rafa :Hilarious The only heats I'm familiar with are labs and great danes (a couple not being very clean at all) and tiny dots of watery blood had me all sorts of second guessing myself.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Pervert photos warning!
Sorry :Bag


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Sairy said:


> This made me LOL, mainly because you're one of the last people on this forum I would ever think of as being a pervert :Hilarious


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> Please don't laugh at me @Rafa


Rafa never laughs.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> Pervert photos warning!
> Sorry :Bag


Oh, that is swollen.

She's definitely in season.

I'm judging by my experience with my own bitches, of course, but I would, to be on the safe side, assume that she's been in season for a while and is coming into her receptive time.

Hopefully, this will mean it's less likely she's been mated.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> Oh, that is swollen.
> 
> She's definitely in season.
> 
> ...


Okay, now things are starting to fall in to place. The last few times I saw her when she was loose she was near a husky breeder's house, he keeps his dogs outside in kennels and she was hanging out on the other side of his fence. I can't imagine a husky could breed a 9 pound dog, but she was definitely wanting to be near that them. The house next door also has dogs and that was the neighbor who helped me catch her and said they had seen her off and on for about a month.

Well darn Rafa, now I don't know what to do. 
Should I just go ahead with the spay appointment I already have knowing how hard it's going to be to get another if it turns out in two weeks that she's pregnant after all?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tough decision I know and I'm aware you're knowledgeable and will have strong opinions of your own, so I know I can offer mine. 

She's definitely in season. She may have been attracted to other dogs simply for the company when she was feeling very lost. I would doubt that another dog would have mated her through a fence.

Saying that, you have all the challenges of a new dog, (particularly one you weren't expecting), and the additional angst of a potential little diablo with a good dollop of terrier in it.

You don't need the additional stress of wondering whether she's pregnant.

Years ago, my Vet used to spay a bitch whenever, there was no 'between seasons' rule then and I honestly never had a bitch show any change of character or mood at all.

I know it's not ideal, but, given the circumstances, if she were mine, I would have her spayed now.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Okay, that's what I needed to hear. I was leaning towards spaying now and you and my other friend I've been texting have helped me make up my mind. The 31st it is. I was feeling like I was being a little callous not waiting to see if she's actually pregnant, but this is the affirmation I needed.

Yes, years ago we did the spay whenever thing too. Still do in most shelters. Bitches seem to do just fine with it.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I really believe it's the right decision - for her and you.

You're not being callous at all. She's little more than a pup. Take the worry and stress away for both of you.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Now that Penny's spay is sorted, back to our regularly scheduled programing 

It's pouring down this morning and Penny was not too precious to go out in it and do a quick wee. And she loved being towelled off afterwards. That was super fun according to her  
So little 9 pound dog in her pink harness is technically a frou frou dog, but she's all dog who doesn't mind getting wet and dirty! Actually she does mind water in the form of the stream that's one of Bates regular walks. She is very worried about the stream. Bates being down there helps, so that's another thing we'll be working on. Chihuahuas can swim right?

I don't know how helpful the videos I'm posting are, but I guess I'll keep on for now.

This one is about the three D's, I'm just going to C/P what I posted on FB:
When addressing inappropriate reactivity, bear in mind the 3 D's - Distance, Duration, and Distraction. 
Distance is how far the scary (or exciting) thing is. Duration is just that, how long dog has to be in the presence of the thing. And distraction is what the scary or exciting thing is doing.
In this case, Penny met some horses. She found them interesting, a little too interesting, and she's also unsure about them. As I work on her being comfortable around horses I'm going to bear in mind the 3 D's. Anytime you make one of the D's harder, you have to make the other two easier. In Penny's case, I took duration a little too far without increasing distance. Distraction was not an issue, the horses were just standing there, but if they had started doing fun stuff like walking up to us or running around, we would have needed much more distance and much less duration.

Let's break down the video. There's some good stuff in there, there's also several mistakes that are good to point out.
The main mistake starts with train the dog instead of trying to video the interaction. I can barely walk and chew gum, I have no business trying to video and deal with a dog at the same time!
After Penny noticed the horses and then chose to move on with me - that was AWESOME and that was 100% her choice, I haven't trained any of that, but you bet I'm going to reward the heck out of it and encourage more of the same. Dogs very often make good choices on their own, our job is to notice those good choices and reward them.
Then I then let her look a little too long. She's conflicted about those horses, and proximity to me gave her a boost of bravery so you hear the low growl. Enter mistake #2, I tightened the leash first instead of just quickly moving on. Most of that is my total lack of flexi skills, 'cause really all I had to do was lock the leash, it just didn't occur to me.
Telling her 'no' is not really a mistake, but it wasn't particularly helpful either. 'No' means nothing to her and a better option would have been to just jolly her up away from the horses. Which I did end up doing eventually. Once further away I gave her treats again, mostly to see if she would take then (and I was glad to see she did) and also to reward her for moving on with me and not continuing or escalating the growl.
Apologies for the awful camera work!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Sairy said:


> I don't know how I imagined you to sound, but it wasn't like that


@O2.0 you sound pretty much exactly what I imagined!
I agree, get the spay sorted as arranged. It's lucky you have vet that specialises in spays during pregnancy within reach.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Rafa said:


> Tough decision I know and I'm aware you're knowledgeable and will have strong opinions of your own, so I know I can offer mine.
> 
> She's definitely in season. She may have been attracted to other dogs simply for the company when she was feeling very lost. I would doubt that another dog would have mated her through a fence.
> 
> ...


I agree she is definitely in season. Not sure what decision I would make. She could have only just come in since you got her.

The bolded bit - how old are you Rafa. I trained as a vet nurse in 1972 and I have never worked for a vet or used a vet that would consider spaying an in season or in whelp bitch or do them any time but 3 to 4 months after a season. And when I trained no vet would spay a bitch that had not had one season either. There are good reasons for it. Apart from the high chance of bleeding there are hormones rife at any other time which can affect them. Back then it was not so routine to spay a bitch so misalliance injections were very very common - which is the other option and the one I would probably go for. Pyos and mammary tumours were far too frequent as well as were litters of pups to euthanase. If you have found a vet willing to spay her and they are happy to do it at this time then you have to take the vets advice on it and make the decision on whether you really are happy with it.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Tango was spayed just at the end of her last season as she ws showing signs of dveloping pyo. It made no difference to the surgery according to the operating vet and her recovery was text-book.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

It stopped raining long enough to do a quick stream walk. Bates opted out, but Penny was game, and is getting much braver about the water 

And I've just done some reading and apparently 9 pounds is big for a chi? I wonder what else is in there? 

















Penny says Bates makes a good pillow


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Oh that’s a lovely picture of her and Bates he looks happy to have a little house mate.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Oh that's a lovely picture of her and Bates he looks happy to have a little house mate.


He has warmed to her a lot. I think he finds her entertaining 

Bates has always had a soft spot for puppies, and she still has some puppy-ish behaviors like jumping up at his face and licking his muzzle. He does sometimes have to tell her off, but she doesn't take it personally and just adjusts her behaviors like a good juvenile deferring to the patriarch should.

I don't think he would admit it, but I think he secretly likes having her around


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

She really is very sweet


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

SusieRainbow said:


> Tango was spayed just at the end of her last season as she ws showing signs of dveloping pyo. It made no difference to the surgery according to the operating vet and her recovery was text-book.


That is obviously different, a medical reason for it. I have had a bitch spayed at the same time as having a caesarian. The vet refused when I asked him to do it as he said it was too much for her but when he saw the state of the dead puppy he did it to stop the risk of infection. She recovered quickly with no problems.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Blitz said:


> That is obviously different, a medical reason for it. I have had a bitch spayed at the same time as having a caesarian. The vet refused when I asked him to do it as he said it was too much for her but when he saw the state of the dead puppy he did it to stop the risk of infection. She recovered quickly with no problems.


I know, but just saying that being a post-season spay doesn't always cause problems as in Tango's case.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Oh it’s great seeing what Penny has been up to! Love the updates. And that picture of her and Bates is the sweetest


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

I've had a bitch spayed while in season. She was only a day or two in and it was her first.
As she had been booked in for a while, the vet was happy to crack on and do it anyway. She had a flank spay rather than a midline and was absolutely fine


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

We've been doing tons of "Penny" + treat (she's very food motivated), "Penny" + scratches she likes, "Penny" + meals... Well over 100 repetitions I'd say, and it's working. We now get a full head turn 95% of the time for "Penny" unless there's something more exciting going on.




I would like there to be more enthusiasm, so I will work on building that in with games, running away, and mixing it up.

We did our first off-leash sessions yesterday. Waited until it was a mellow time, OH and I were sitting on the porch reading, and Penny was out there with us, leashed just mooching about. I let her off. She came to her name every time. Yay!! I did not film that, I learned my lesson with the horses 

We did have a minor issue with bedtime, OH decided to get her all riled up right before bed and when we put her in the crate she wasn't having it. So I took her out for a potty break and sat with her on the sofa until she settled and got sleepy. Sure enough that time when I put her in the crate for bed, she settled right down. Lesson learned.

I'm thinking about doing her first clicker session today. I'll definitely record that


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Better clicker train your OH not to wind up dog at bedtime. 

Glad all is going well.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Kaily said:


> Better clicker train your OH not to wind up dog at bedtime.
> 
> Glad all is going well.


He's my biggest training failure :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Welp... Clicker training session one didn't go so well. The noise is too scary for her and by the third click she was totally done, couldn't even take treats which obviously won't work. 
My next step is to use a marker word instead. I still want to eventually use a clicker because I find you can be more precise with it, but that may be months down the line. For now a marker word will work just fine.

Poor Penny, after I got her calmed down from the clicker incident, later on I dropped the flexi handle on her head. She's been suspicious of the flexi handle all along and I just confirmed her fears 
But she did forgive me (and the flexi handle) quickly so I'm hopeful she will forgive the clicker 

I edited down an 8 minute video of me rambling and Penny being scared to 3 minutes, it's still really boring, Penny goes out of frame so you can't even see her in parts of this, but if you want to torture yourself with bad audio and an unhappy dog, here it is. 
As you can tell, fearful dogs are not my forte, I had my answer after the 2nd click but I pushed it to a third and really confirmed for her that clicking is scary. 
There is some good stuff in here though, towards the end you'll see me put her in my lap to help her relax. I am okay at that, and even though she's still not taking treats, you can see that she does calm down. I'm purposefully putting her near me to relax because I want her to associate me (humans) with safety instead of her default which is to run away for safety. And that is something she is starting to get - that I am a source of security. So that's good.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh my goodness, very happy breakthrough this morning! Shortly after I posted the clicker fail video, Penny spooked at a noise upstairs while she was playing with a ball, and instead of running away, she ran *to* me! Like, she deliberately looked for me, and ran to me. Woo hoo! that's huge!

My biggest fear with her being off leash is not that she won't come, but that she'll get spooked at something and take off. And then because she's scared, not come to me. If I can know for sure that she can come to me even when scared, or even better seek me out when scared, then I can be much more confident about her being off leash.

Happy dance


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Well done Penny (and of course you @O2.2


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Oh poor Penny! It sounds like she’s quite resilient so hopefully she’ll get over it quickly! 


And that’s a great sign for you  she obviously trusts you


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Oh my goodness, very happy breakthrough this morning! Shortly after I posted the clicker fail video, Penny spooked at a noise upstairs while she was playing with a ball, and instead of running away, she ran *to* me! Like, she deliberately looked for me, and ran to me. Woo hoo! that's huge!
> 
> My biggest fear with her being off leash is not that she won't come, but that she'll get spooked at something and take off. And then because she's scared, not come to me. If I can know for sure that she can come to me even when scared, or even better seek me out when scared, then I can be much more confident about her being off leash.
> 
> Happy dance


Well done, Penny and @O2.0


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Teddy-dog said:


> Oh poor Penny! It sounds like she's quite resilient so hopefully she'll get over it quickly!


For as fearful as she is, she is really resilient and I'm banking on that. Like I said, I'm not all that good with sensitive, fearful dogs. I mean, I know what to do, but it's not natural to me, I do much better with obnoxious idiot dogs 

But it's good to get out of your comfort zone and Penny may be the dog who teaches me to appreciate the progress of fearful dogs. 
Yesterday she finally got up the nerve to jump across the stream, that she's been scared of for 4 days now, when she made it across and I told her how brave she was, she was so puffed up and prancy it was very cute :Happy


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Aww bless her with the scary clicker. Puzzle was exactly the same, so I never pushed it. Might be time I tried again actually!

And woop! For her coming to find you when scared! That's a major breakthrough!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> Aww bless her with the scary clicker. Puzzle was exactly the same, so I never pushed it. Might be time I tried again actually!


If you can get a hold of a box clicker and some adhesive putty, you can muffle the sound of the clicker. I may also try the click of a pen top. Well, I'm not going to try any clicker anything for a while actually. Another one of my handicaps in training is trying to rush things :Bag

I keep wanting to *do* things with her, but really poor thing is in heat, in a new environment, learning new people, new routine... 
Really I need to just teach her her name and leave the rest be. She'll be spayed a week from tomorrow, have to recover from that.
I've just talked myself in to no deliberate training until she's healed from her spay. Obviously every interaction with her is "training" and I'll continue to reinforce her name and humans as safe spaces, but no specific behavior training for now.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I did do some clicker training with Isla Who wasn’t bothered by the sound, I kept the clicker behind me intitallly stuffed up my top so it was really muffled and fed treats from the other hand.
I was always forgetting to take it with me so used a cue word instead which was a ‘yessss’ not loud more a breathy sound.

well done a Penny for coming to you when there was the scary noise, she is obviously learning really quickly who the safe person is


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh I meant to ask for those of you following, what do you think she is breed-wise?
She's registered at the vet as a chihuahua mix, but IDK?
I'm hopeless at small breeds. Do you see terrier in there? Rat terrier? Feist?
Her body doesn't strike me as chihuahua. She's long, but not overly so, and her legs are proportional. 
Ideas?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Ideas?


Rat dog thing? :Hilarious:Hilarious

Sorry I'm also useless with little dog breeds beyond JR's and Parsons...my best guess would be a chi mix :Mooning


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Any good still photos of her to help with breed(s) id?

Maybe Pit x Chi?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> Rat dog thing? :Hilarious:Hilarious


Sounds about accurate 

I'm so useless with small dogs too! I first looked at her and thought chihuahua, but then I started looking at photos of proper chihuahuas and realized her head kind of sort of matches, but her body is definitely not chi-like. And at 9 pounds she's way too big - which blows my mind because she's so tiny to me!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I can see some Chihuahua in her face I think, but whatever she is, I don't believe it's mostly Chi.

Definitely some terrier.

How tall is she?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Lurcherlad said:


> Any good still photos of her to help with breed(s) id?
> 
> Maybe Pit x Chi?


Post # 46 is the best I have so far. The ones I got of her before I caught her she's all roach backed but that's 'cause she's really scared, she's not roach backed normally. 
The first few minutes of the video with the horses shows her structure pretty well. I can also upload a photo of her profile while she was waiting at the vets.



Rafa said:


> How tall is she?


No clue - maybe 6, 7 inches?? I really don't know and I'm not good at estimating. OH says no, more like 10 LOL
Her legs aren't dwarf legs though, they're proportional to her. Someone say mini doxie but I don't see it. I'm with you, I see terrier, but what terriers are that tiny? I guess if you mix one with a chi they would shrink 

If you squint at the photo of her lying down she could be a shepherd mix :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe Pit x Chi?


:Hilarious:Hilarious
Pocket pittie?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious
> Pocket pittie?


My sister's Gary had quite short legs


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

She looks much taller than ten inches.

Could you measure her to the top of her shoulder?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

She looks very young.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Maybe something like a Miniature Pinscher? They are pointy little dogs, feisty too!

She's a LBJ - Little Brown Job


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I was wondering if there is something like miniature pincher or an English toy terrier mixed with a Chi


ETA crossed posted with Sarah


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> Could you measure her to the top of her shoulder?


I'll try at some point. Right now the little monster is sleeping and she already narrowly missed death when I dropped the flexi handle on her head, I'll have to be very careful with the tape measure :Hilarious



Rafa said:


> She looks very young.


 I agree, I'm really starting to wonder if she's not younger than 18 months even. Bates is acting like she is, he's had to grumble at her a few times, but he does it like he corrects puppies, not adults, and she responds to him in a puppy way, not an adult way. She's for sure not socially mature yet.



Sarah H said:


> Maybe something like a Miniature Pinscher? They are pointy little dogs, feisty too!


I was wondering about that too, but every min pin I've known was a drive you up the wall barker. She is very quiet. She will bark but it's rare, I've heard her bark maybe 3 times since we've had her.
Granted, that could just be survival skills, you don't advertise your presence when you're trying to avoid detection!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Min Pin is very close and, they come in that colour. 

Once her season is over, she'll begin filling out and there may be more clue then.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> I was wondering about that too, but every min pin I've known was a drive you up the wall barker. She is very quiet. She will bark but it's rare, I've heard her bark maybe 3 times since we've had her.
> Granted, that could just be survival skills, you don't advertise your presence when you're trying to avoid detection!


My boss breeds min pins and they aren't that noisy. They alarm bark but other than that not really. But as you say, she might be keeping quiet at the moment, you never know she might find her voice in a few weeks


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> you never know she might find her voice in a few weeks


No no! Quiet is nice!

Min pin seems to fit too. All these small dogs I didn't think about


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Given her age, and the fact that she's new to your home, you would expect her to be quiet. She will be taking cues from Bates too.

All of my terriers have been fairly quiet until about eighteen months of age, then they discovered they had a voice and felt it was high time the neighbours heard it.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> All of my terriers have been fairly quiet until about eighteen months of age, then they discovered they had a voice and felt it was high time the neighbours heard it.


*groan* 

Good job I don't have neighbors  At least not close enough to hear her discover her voice!

We did have a funny (to me) incident with the vacuum cleaner. Penny thought it was horrifying and ran to Bates who was completely unperturbed. She sat there looking at him, looking at the vacuum, back at him. She clearly thought he was obviously not understanding the severity of the threat so she started barking at Bates because he wasn't reacting enough LOL. 
Then my son took her upstairs away from the vacuum. Problem solved


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Typical terrier.

"I recognise impending doom when I see it and I WILL share my knowledge with the World", (whether they want to hear it or not).


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

She has a very sweet little face, I can see why you fell for her.
Regarding 4kg being big for a chi they do vary in size. My neghbour had a Standard long haired Chihuahua who looked somewhat bigger than my hounds who are 6 and 7 kg. But I agree wth others she doesn't look like a pure Chi, I'd go for Min Pin.


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## Jason25 (May 8, 2018)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I think it's a lovely idea. I already adore Penny(great name) and would love progress updates.
> Great she gives you an ear of attention. Heidi has pretty good recall to her name but "what's this" is great back up.
> Could be a stepping stone for Penny while she adjusts to her name.


Thank god im not the only one who uses "what's this" when recall fails 

Glad she's settling in well, I can't comment on what breed but shes a beaut


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Having never owned a dog - but being an avid Crufts watcher for many years - I’m going with a miniature Pinscher. It was the first breed I thought of when I saw Penny’s face  

I’m so glad she’s safe with you now. Such progress in such a short time too, just brilliant.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Ugh, well progress is not ever linear I guess. 
After a week of no potty incidents in the house, two accidents yesterday and one this morning. I'm guessing she's now feeling comfortable enough in the house to pee in it. I thought I had her schedule figured out but apparently not. 
At least on one of the wees I did catch her right as she was doing it and scooped her outside. 

I have to work today so the kids are in charge


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

And of course home with the kids all day she did fine. No accidents. Good job kids! 

Still putting up strategic baby gates to keep a closer eye on her. Never get rid of the baby gates! We have 3 left over from children/puppies and I stored them, instead of donating them with all the other baby stuff, very glad I did  

After saying I wasn't going to do any specific training, well... I lied. I'm sorry I'm a trainaholoic! :Bag
I've been 'loading' the word 'yes' and today moved in to don't mug the hand for treats and eye contact. Guys, she's SO smart!! Only took two reps to figure out not to mug my hand, and three reps to figure out eye contact. Granted, none of it is proofed or generalized, but she is a total problem solver, you can just see the wheels in her little head spinning  

As an aside, the last dog I spent any significant time teaching not to mug the treat hand was Breez - great dane. And can I just say I almost laughed at the difference in how I went about teaching that to Penny vs. Breez and the ensuing damage (or lack thereof) to my hand :Hilarious:Hilarious 

Bates is a good sport, he comes and lays down right next to our training area and I give him treats for existing. I'm giving him the Penny sized treats (mini zukes cut in to quarters) and the look on his face the first few times I gave him a treat was hilarious. 
I swear he's looking on almost encouragingly to Penny :Angelic


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Penny got to come to work with me for half a day today and did really well. She's having lots of good experiences with people in a positive way and every success seems to build her confidence.

Speaking of confidence, she really does like clicker training (without a clicker) and that too seems to be a confidence builder for her.

This is session two (well 3 if you count the failed clicker attempt) of training. I already loaded "yes" and I just wanted to see if she remembered that eye contact gets rewarded. Look how smart she is!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Apparently yesterday was international dog day - that's what FB said. So I posted this photo, thought I'd share here too 










Nothing exciting to report, another quiet day for Penny. She's getting more used to the kids walking her. Still having accidents in the house but they've all been unsupervised moments that in hindsight I should have known she was going to need to go. Stools were a little loose yesterday too but back to normal this morning. Not sure what that was about. Appetite is great.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Sairy said:


> She's so freaking cute! And it's nice to hear your voice - I don't know how I imagined you to sound, but it wasn't like that


I had the same reaction. I suppose it's a normal thing. You don't think about someone's voice on a forum until you hear it, and then you think "oh is that what they sound like?"


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

No training, no commentary, just some insane cuteness for you


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Really cute


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> No training, no commentary, just some insane cuteness for you


Loki would love it if I bought her home.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Her ears kill me when she flicks them forward and back :Hilarious
And Bates' head circling as he watches her zoom around. At her age, Bates was *not* allowed to zoomie in the house!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

She must think all her birthdays have come at once!


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> No training, no commentary, just some insane cuteness for you


Zoomies! They are the best!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Hey @Rafa or anyone who knows about these things 
Can you please explain heats/fertile phases to me again. Bates is drooling and chattering today and Penny is being a total floozie with him and obvious flagging 
Her bleeding is either stopped or so minor I don't notice it at all. Haven't seen it anywhere today, a little in her bed last night that's all.

I'm still getting her spayed Monday, but feeling a little more hopeful that she might not have gotten caught.

ETA the flirting between them is not constant, happened maybe 3 times today, otherwise they're normal with each other. Nobody is stressed thank goodness!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Sounds like Penny has reached her most fertile time which is why she is flirting with Bates and he obviously knows, I guess you are not leaving them alone together as Bates could hurt her if he tried to mate.

Generally a bitches season lasts approx 3 weeks (21 days) but that is not a given and some will last longer. The first season a bitch has is often longer or shorter then what will eventually be the norm. The first week will be a loss of more noticeable red blood, the second week the flow will lessen and become clear, it's during this time she will be at her most fertile, the third week the flow will often return to a red or even darker colour and will gradually tail off. That is what should happen, but as you know should and what actually happens are two completely different things. Some dogs fertile season will be early or late, Ive read of of dog who was mated on day 28 and went on to have a litter from this mating. So always be careful when a bitch is in season and keep male dogs away for the entire time and a bit longer to make absolutely sure and never underestimate how much effort both bitch and dogs will go to in order to mate. That last bit is for the benefit of anyone else reading this that may not be so aware as you are @O2.0


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Thanks @Siskin  
No, they aren't left alone but I wouldn't at this point even if she weren't in heat. 
Fortunately Bates doesn't seem interested that way. He did drool yesterday on a few occasions she stuck her butt in his face, but otherwise he's fine. She's getting spayed in 2 days so this will all be over then. She'll come home smelling much different! 
I'll be interested to see if there are any personality/temperament changes after her hormones settle too.

Cat intros are going well and both cats have decided she's not a threat and are no longer running from her. This has caused some new excitement. Penny is not nearly so excited to chase them when they stop and face her. Then her self preservation kicks in. 
Yesterday one of the cats took a swipe at her. I had to laugh at Penny. Her terrier side and self-preservation side were at odds. She first ducked, then got mad and went back after the cat (at which point I changed the subject), but it was still funny - to me. See? This is why I don't need a terrier! 

A little later we were all chilling on the front porch (dogs and cats) and I was feeding Penny treats for staying on the porch and just general being around me, and one of the cats decided she too wanted treats. 
Up until now I have seen zero resource guarding from Penny, none. She and Bates share treats and toys all day long and not even a whisper of discontent between them. 
Not so with the cat. Cat walks over and Penny did a textbook freeze and hard stare. Cat keeps coming, Penny lifts a lip. At this point I stopped it, this cat does not speak dog very well and wasn't getting the hint  
However it did build a lot more drive for the treats with Penny, which is good information to store in my back pocket 

Porch sitting doggo


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Is that her off leash now @O2.0?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Is that her off leash now @O2.0?


Yes ma'am  
Low distraction, nothing exciting happening and lots of rewards and praise for sticking close. She'll be a full loose dog in no time 

This was our "recall" practice yesterday :Hilarious
(Excuse my embarrassingly dirty feet! I keep going to the stream in flip flops.)


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

She looks like she has her feet under the table not going anywhere!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I would say her receptive period is beginning, yes, which does indeed make it less likely that she could have been mated.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

This dog continues to impress me  
On Tuesday I brought her to work for a little bit. It's very quiet as we slowly transition back, and I only set up interactions with 2 people. She was very unsettled at first but eventually settled down. 
Today I brought her back after lunch, she pranced in to the building like she owned the place! Interacted with 5 different people, was reserved with 3 of them but not scared, and was almost outgoing with the other two (the two she had met previously). Huge difference in just 3 days! 
I'm so happy for her that she's learning that humans are okay. She even walked up to a coworker she had never met before of her own accord when he offered her his hand to sniff! 

Outside off leash time continues in just the front yard area. She's doing great. We wait until right before dinner when she's paying close attention for dinner cues LOL. But hey, it works. The more experience she has being loose and returning to the porch/house the better. Doesn't hurt that there's also cat food on the porch at dinner time  

I fully expect to lose some ground when we drop her off and leave her to get spayed  Kids are all up in arms about dropping her off with strangers and leaving her. But I'm hoping good old GA's amnesia effects will help us out. 

No cute photos today, sorry! I'll make up for it over the weekend I promise!


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## Jason25 (May 8, 2018)

O2.0 said:


> Thanks @Siskin
> No, they aren't left alone but I wouldn't at this point even if she weren't in heat.
> Fortunately Bates doesn't seem interested that way. He did drool yesterday on a few occasions she stuck her butt in his face, but otherwise he's fine. She's getting spayed in 2 days so this will all be over then. She'll come home smelling much different!
> I'll be interested to see if there are any personality/temperament changes after her hormones settle too.
> ...


I love them photos, there's so much difference in them compared to the ones of when you first caught her, you can just see she's so relaxed there  you're an awesome person @O2.0 thanks for rescuing her


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

Just had a read through, what an awesome little girl you have there. She's got a perfect forever home with you by the looks of it .


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Jason25 said:


> I love them photos, there's so much difference in them compared to the ones of when you first caught her, you can just see she's so relaxed there  you're an awesome person @O2.0 thanks for rescuing her


I don't know about all that! But thank you 

I joke that we seem to end up with dogs, we never actually plan for them. But obviously the universe has a plan and it all seems to work out somehow. I never saw myself with a little dog, this forum is full of posts I've written saying how a little dog would never work out for us, yet here we are. :Woot

Today she learned to play blanket monster, which all self respecting terrier-types need to know


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> This dog continues to impress me
> On Tuesday I brought her to work for a little bit. It's very quiet as we slowly transition back, and I only set up interactions with 2 people. She was very unsettled at first but eventually settled down.
> Today I brought her back after lunch, she pranced in to the building like she owned the place! Interacted with 5 different people, was reserved with 3 of them but not scared, and was almost outgoing with the other two (the two she had met previously). Huge difference in just 3 days!
> I'm so happy for her that she's learning that humans are okay. She even walked up to a coworker she had never met before of her own accord when he offered her his hand to sniff!
> ...


Be sure to include another cute video


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Be sure to include another cute video


I just did! Blanket monster counts right?


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I just did! Blanket monster counts right?


 
Loved that fearsome growl


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Loved that fearsome growl


Terrifying isn't it? :Hilarious

She tries it with Bates too, trying to get him to play. It's pretty hilarious. I'll try to capture it


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## katla (Aug 8, 2020)

She looks so happy and comfortable in all your videos! I'm glad she's found such a good home with you - she's a very lucky girl!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> I fully expect to lose some ground when we drop her off and leave her to get spayed


The girl has terrier in her - don't underestimate her. 

I don't think you'll see much change in her.

Terriers tend not to mope.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> The girl has terrier in her - don't underestimate her.
> 
> I don't think you'll see much change in her.
> 
> Terriers tend not to mope.


Oh I had to laugh  
Her terrier side is peeking out more and more, and you're not wrong at all :Hilarious
I'm a terrible influence on terriers, I like to egg that side on :Angelic


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> I'm a terrible influence on terriers, I like to egg that side on


Hmm. We met two ferrets, in harnesses and leads, at the beach today. No egging on required, poor T was beside himself (fortunately, and by sheer luck, he was also on lead).


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Hmm. We met two ferrets, in harnesses and leads, at the beach today. No egging on required, poor T was beside himself (fortunately, and by sheer luck, he was also on lead).


Oh my dear gawd what a nightmare! Poor ferrets! Seems rather risky!

I am rather enjoying having a dog I can just pick up, stuff her head in my armpit, and move on. She does not like cars and especially does not like the FedEx delivery truck that seems to time his deliveries with our walks. I started out seeing how Penny would do. She was scared at first, then he drove away and she decided he needed to be encouraged to continue retreating by her chasing. So that problem is now solved with me holding her tucked under my arm like an American football with her head covered with my other hand if need be. I'll train that later LOL.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Remember how worried Penny was about the stream? Well she's getting much braver! 





I like this one particularly for the check-in at the end when she hits the end of the flexi. I'll build on this for both recall and leash manners.


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

I need to read through this thread, but wow @O2.0! Also welcome to small dogs who are trained and do things club


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

JoanneF said:


> Hmm. We met two ferrets, in harnesses and leads, at the beach today. No egging on required, poor T was beside himself (fortunately, and by sheer luck, he was also on lead).


And today at the beach there were two miniature dachshunds in harnesses and on leads. They looked far too similar to ferrets for my liking, so back on lead for T again ...


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> And today at the beach there were two miniature dachshunds in harnesses and on leads. They looked far too similar to ferrets for my liking, so back on lead for T again ...


LOL you're having a time of it aren't you?


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Good luck for tomorrow Penny. Hope everything goes smoothly and you're back home ASAP


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Good luck for tomorrow Penny. Hope everything goes smoothly and you're back home ASAP


Thank you so much @SbanR  
I'll keep everyone posted. Have to drop her off at 7:30 and they'll call when she's ready.

I might have bought her a new bed and blankie to recover in :Bag
I also got her some chicken wings but probably best not to introduce those until she's settled from the GA.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Thank you so much @SbanR
> I'll keep everyone posted. Have to drop her off at 7:30 and they'll call when she's ready.
> 
> I might have bought her a new bed and blankie to recover in :Bag
> I also got her some chicken wings but probably best not to introduce those until she's settled from the GA.


What is your time difference with the UK?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SbanR said:


> What is your time difference with the UK?


I'm 5 hours behind you, so 6:30pm here


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Thinking of you & Penny today, hope everything goes smoothly.
Sending positive & healing vibes to Penny xx


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Hope all goes well for you both today.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Paws crossed all goes beautifully straightforward and you are home to your new bed and blankie very soon, Penny. Hope the times goes quickly for you whilst she's there @O2.0


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Hope all goes smoothly today.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Hope everything goes well today!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Teddy-dog said:


> Hope everything goes well today!


Hope it all goes well today.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Hope everything goes smoothly for little Penny.


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## Jason25 (May 8, 2018)

Good luck with the spay I’ve had daisy and my previous jrt spayed and the hardest part was keeping them still and chilled out after the ga worn off lol :Facepalm


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Thank you all for the well-wishes! We're leaving in about an hour so time for one good walkies before we go


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Good luck Penny!


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Good luck little Penny!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Penny is out of surgery, doing well, I can go get her in an hour and a half but no sooner. The wait is killing me, I want to get her now!

I left her with a dirty (worn, not filthy) t-shirt and they were kind enough to allow that, so hopefully as she wakes up she'll have that for comfort.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Penny is out of surgery, doing well, I can go get her in an hour and a half but no sooner. The wait is killing me, I want to get her now!
> 
> I left her with a dirty (worn, not filthy) t-shirt and they were kind enough to allow that, so hopefully as she wakes up she'll have that for comfort.


Oh bless her!
Tango bounced back so well after her spay at 13 years old, all she wanted was her delayed breakfast. It's horrible without them isn't it ?
Have you got something to put on her to keep her off the wound?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I bet she’ll be pleased to see you 

When we went to pick Jack up from the rescue (having met him just briefly the week before), as soon as he saw us he reacted as if he knew we were “his new people come for him” - he was so delighted!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> Haveyou got something to put on her to keep her off the wound?


No, I was going to wait and see how she does. Most of my dogs have completely left the wound alone. If she does get licky I'll rig something up with an old t-shirt to turn in to a bulky collar so she can't get to it.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

She's home! 
Very droopy and still shaking off the GA. Not interested in food yet. Once she's eaten and peed I'll feel better. 
Resting nicely right now


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> She's home!
> Very droopy and still shaking off the GA. Not interested in food yet. Once she's eaten and peed I'll feel better.
> Resting nicely right now


Glad she's home I bet that's a relief.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> She's home!
> Very droopy and still shaking off the GA. Not interested in food yet. Once she's eaten and peed I'll feel better.
> Resting nicely right now


Glad she's home, Lots of gentle snuggles xx


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Welcome back home Penny. 
Glad it went well.


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## katla (Aug 8, 2020)

Glad everything went well! Hope she manages to rest when she gets home


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Glad she’s home! Hope she recovers quickly


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Glad all went well and she’s back home with you. It’s varied with my girls how they have reacted. One insisted on going for a walk not long after I bought her home, halfway round she suddenly realised she was hungry and dragged me home and demanded her tea and scoffed the lot. Isla on the other hand was grumpy all evening, didn’t want to eat, took ages to get her to pee and was as right as the rain the following morning.

I didn’t use a cone on Isla, just had her up with us in the bedroom for the next few nights. I wake easily and any sound of her licking would have me stopping her doing it. She had dissolvable stitches which hardly bothered her


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Glad she's home


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Hope she is right as rain soon. These terriers bounce back fast!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Siskin said:


> Glad all went well and she's back home with you. It's varied with my girls how they have reacted. One insisted on going for a walk not long after I bought her home, halfway round she suddenly realised she was hungry and dragged me home and demanded her tea and scoffed the lot. Isla on the other hand was grumpy all evening, didn't want to eat, took ages to get her to pee and was as right as the rain the following morning.
> 
> I didn't use a cone on Isla, just had her up with us in the bedroom for the next few nights. I wake easily and any sound of her licking would have me stopping her doing it. She had dissolvable stitches which hardly bothered her


They did a lovely job, went a little crazy with the shaving, but her incision looks lovely, internal stitches and glue on the outside. Nice and clean, small incision. Looks great. Hopefully she's leave it alone, so far she has


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

None of mine ever tried to touch the incision, apart from one who removed her own stitches a week after the event.

She made a lovely job, but not to be recommended.

I guess Penny will be back to normal by tomorrow morning - terrier girls don't feel sorry for themselves.

"I lost what? My womb? Well, it was just slowing me down anyway".


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> I guess Penny will be back to normal by tomorrow morning - terrier girls don't feel sorry for themselves.
> 
> "I lost what? My womb? Well, it was just slowing me down anyway".


Ha ha! Sounds about right


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

She finally decided to get up, had a huge wee, took a few licks of some soupy wet food, and then put herself to bed in her crate, now snuggled up in the new bed I got her.
She thought about licking her incision but was easily distracted so I'm not too worried. I still have an old t-shirt ready to cut up if need be.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

I hope Penny had a restful night & wakes up wanting her breakfast xx


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

O2.0 said:


> They did a lovely job, went a little crazy with the shaving, but her incision looks lovely, internal stitches and glue on the outside. Nice and clean, small incision. Looks great. Hopefully she's leave it alone, so far she has


Hope she feels better today, bless her!

If we do adopt Zsomi I've got the same "pleasure" to go through with her, which I'm not looking forward to.

When I had my hip replacement, my incision (9 inches long) was glued. Marvellous because unlike stitches it didn't itch or irritate me at all


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Magyarmum said:


> Hope she feels better today, bless her!
> 
> If we do adopt Zsomi I've got the same "pleasure" to go through with her, which I'm not looking forward to.
> 
> When I had my hip replacement, my incision (9 inches long) was glued. Marvellous because unlike stitches it didn't itch or irritate me at all


I missed this little gem. Who is Zsomi?


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Siskin said:


> I missed this little gem. Who is Zsomi?


I don't want to derail this thread, but yes all being well we'll be welcoming an 8 year old Peigirl into the family later this month.

A few details and a couple of photos of her on Random Doggy Chat post #3588


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ebonycat said:


> I hope Penny had a restful night & wakes up wanting her breakfast xx


She's moving cautiously this morning, she did wee on her pee pad last night and had a good wee outside when we got up, but rested well, left her incision alone. 
She's ate a few more licks of food, nothing really, but I expect her appetite will return soon enough. She just wants to sleep still, but it's only 6am here, I want to sleep too!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

And an hour later, she had a big breakfast with her pain meds mixed in, ate it all up. Then a cautious wee outside and now back to sleep  
She's not cute at all!


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Bless her. She looks so tiny and vulnerable.


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> And an hour later, she had a big breakfast with her pain meds mixed in, ate it all up. Then a cautious wee outside and now back to sleep
> She's not cute at all!
> 
> View attachment 448385


Those ears !!!!!!!!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> And an hour later, she had a big breakfast with her pain meds mixed in, ate it all up. Then a cautious wee outside and now back to sleep
> She's not cute at all!
> 
> View attachment 448385


Not in the slightest !
(awwwww!!!)


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Glad she’s feeling better she is adorable.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Aww bless her, she’s so tiny. 
Glad she’s eaten xx


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

How’s little Penny doing?


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Awwwww, what a cute little snuggle bun


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ebonycat said:


> How's little Penny doing?


Steady improvement, thanks for asking  
She has realized that it's better if she waits to be carried up and down the porch steps so she now stops at the stairs and waits like the queen of Sheba awaiting her royal escort :Hilarious
She's much brighter and very hungry!

She has to get a booster shot on Thursday, I may ask them to add a dab of surgical glue on top of what she already has just for my own peace of mind, cause I have a feeling she's not going to stay quiet too much longer.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Just caught up with this. Glad Penny's doing well after her spay. The pic of her curled up is adorable.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

No, I see no cuteness there at all. 

She's a young little dot - the anaesthetic will take some time to clear her system.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Someone is definitely on the mend! She ate a huge dinner, slept it off for about an hour, woke up, stretched and started getting in to mischief like trying to chew my computer cord 

So I took her out for what was supposed to be a quiet wee walk, and she decided she needed to chase the cat, pounce on a frog, and trot up the road as if we were going on our regular walk. 
Though she still waits for me to pick her up to go up the stairs little diva. Then comes in the house and leaps on to the bed - which she's *not* supposed to be doing!

She is now in her crate looking far more alert than a bedtime dog should look.

Her incision looks phenomenal, I'm really pleased. The green line is the tattoo they give them to indicate she has been spayed. The incision is to the left of the tattoo. I can't wait for the dirt freckles on her skin to go away. 









In other news, I've been searching amazon for a basic long leash for her, and apparently little dogs don't need long leashes? Or I don't know where to look, everything I see is going to weigh half as much as she does! Plain, nylon, simple long line with hardware that's not heavier than the dog - does that not exist?


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Have a look at the Alcott leads. It is an American brand so you shouldn't have a problem finding them. I've just bought two 1.8m reflective leads for the Schnauzer boys.and I'm really delighted with them. The clip is lightweight but sturdy, around half the weight of the usual ones which makes a difference with ickle woofers like Penny or Gwylim. All in all it's like holding a feather by comparision to other leads I've got. They also do them in a variety of lengths

https://www.alcottadventures.com/collections/collars-leashes


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Someone is definitely on the mend! She ate a huge dinner, slept it off for about an hour, woke up, stretched and started getting in to mischief like trying to chew my computer cord
> 
> So I took her out for what was supposed to be a quiet wee walk, and she decided she needed to chase the cat, pounce on a frog, and trot up the road as if we were going on our regular walk.
> Though she still waits for me to pick her up to go up the stairs little diva. Then comes in the house and leaps on to the bed - which she's *not* supposed to be doing!
> ...


Haha you made me laugh.
So pleased to hear Penny's back to feeling normal & acting like a little terrier again. Lady dog (mixed terrier) was a complete nightmare when she was spayed, completely bounced back to her playful self by the next morning x


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Someone is definitely on the mend! She ate a huge dinner, slept it off for about an hour, woke up, stretched and started getting in to mischief like trying to chew my computer cord
> 
> So I took her out for what was supposed to be a quiet wee walk, and she decided she needed to chase the cat, pounce on a frog, and trot up the road as if we were going on our regular walk.
> Though she still waits for me to pick her up to go up the stairs little diva. Then comes in the house and leaps on to the bed - which she's *not* supposed to be doing!
> ...


. That made me laugh. Definitely got some terrier in her. . Milly was the same after her spay. Honey milked it for about a week.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

I'm so enjoying reading your thread on little Penny, she is coming on leaps and bounds. She's settled in with you very well and is already looking like part of your family. I love the photos of her with Bates, he has taken her under his paw (literally!) It's funny how quickly they bond with you especially as you don't know what kind of life she had before, not a happy one judging from the way you found her and seems like they aren't bothered about finding her. Their loss and your gain. Looking forward to following her going forward with her training , she's a smashing little dog.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Hahaha. Go for it girl!
Will you be carrying her up stairs for the rest of her life @O2.0 ?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Someone is definitely on the mend! She ate a huge dinner, slept it off for about an hour, woke up, stretched and started getting in to mischief like trying to chew my computer cord
> 
> So I took her out for what was supposed to be a quiet wee walk, and she decided she needed to chase the cat, pounce on a frog, and trot up the road as if we were going on our regular walk.
> Though she still waits for me to pick her up to go up the stairs little diva. Then comes in the house and leaps on to the bed - which she's *not* supposed to be doing!
> ...


What an excellent idea the tattoo is, I wish it was customary over here. I'm so pleased she's recovering well.
We have this long lead for Bobby, it works fine and doesn't snag on anything.
www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Biothane-recall-lead-wide/dp/


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Will you be carrying her up stairs for the rest of her life @O2.0 ?


That would be a no LOL  And I doubt she's going to continue to milk that one. I foresee something interesting will be on the top or bottom of the stairs and she will not want to wait on me 

She slept 8 hours, peed in her crate though (on the pee pad, but still, I'd like for that to stop). Bright and perky this morning and wanting breakfast


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Um Bates? How do we get her to feed us breakfast? 









The sad dog stare usually works, that's it, really pull those ears back, good work Penny :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## katla (Aug 8, 2020)

Well she's clearly got that down! It's so lovely to see how well they get on together


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Magyarmum said:


> Have a look at the Alcott leads. It is an American brand so you shouldn't have a problem finding them. I've just bought two 1.8m reflective leads for the Schnauzer boys.and I'm really delighted with them. The clip is lightweight but sturdy, around half the weight of the usual ones which makes a difference with ickle woofers like Penny or Gwylim. All in all it's like holding a feather by comparision to other leads I've got. They also do them in a variety of lengths
> 
> https://www.alcottadventures.com/collections/collars-leashes


Oh good site darn you! 
And more money to spend lol!


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Um Bates? How do we get her to feed us breakfast?
> View attachment 448477
> 
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh that second picture is just too adorable x


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

She stayed quiet most of the day, a couple jumping incidents (on and off the sofa) but otherwise mostly behaving. I have a convalescing teenager (3rd molars removed), so they've been on the sofa together today snoozing and keeping each other company.



SusieRainbow said:


> What an excellent idea the tattoo is, I wish it was customary over here.


Not all clinics do it, but this is a TNR place also so it makes sense that the tattoo is part of the procedure. It is a great idea, if heaven forbid anything happened and Penny gets lost again, at least you can easily tell she's spayed.

Speaking of, here is today's belly shot. Have I mentioned how pleased I am with how she's healing? Not a whisper of bothering it either. I don't want to jinx myself, but I don't remember any of ours ever bothering with a spay or castration incision. Though poor Lunar did swell up pretty badly and I had to put a bag of frozen peas down there which he tolerated so well. I won't divulge if we ate those peas or not :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

They use a special tatoo ink pen on the belly at the free neutering clinics in DomRep my sister helps with.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Glad she's recovering well. That wound looks great - as you say let's not jinx it though! The bitches I've had have never bothered their spay wound, although saying that Nooka had her entropion operation at the same time and that definitely did bother her, so she may have totally forgotten about the other wound! And that was a really nice scar like Penny's, small and neat.
The boys haven't bothered hugely, but I do remember Fly decided to remove his stitches the night before he was due to go back and get them removed and checked at the vet! I told the vet nurse he'd done the job for her! 
That spay tattoo is such a good idea, especially for areas with lots of stray or roaming dogs.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I would like to see all bitches tattooed when spayed.
Some may remember my little rescue, Tango, who we were told by the rescue had been spayed. It turned out she hadn't and she ended up having an emergency spay at 13 yrs old. She had an abdominal scar from a previous C Section which confused us.
Any dog can potentially slip through the net and be at rsk.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well, I did speak too soon, she did start licking her incision last night shortly after I posted she had been leaving it alone - I jinxed myself!
Fortunately a drop of lavender essential oil on either side of the incision deterred her. She gave it one lick, made a 'yuck' face and that was that. Lavender EO for the win! I've used that trick many a time, rarely fails 

This morning she's licking her foot because we both got in to some fire ants in the dark of the morning wee outing 
I'm not one to hate on critters, but chiggers and fire ants really test my at one with nature tendencies enguin



SusieRainbow said:


> Tango, who we were told by the rescue had been spayed.


Oh wow I didn't realize you didn't know she was intact! Did she have silent heats? Poor girlie! Definitely would have been good to know!


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Well, I did speak too soon, she did start licking her incision last night shortly after I posted she had been leaving it alone - I jinxed myself!
> Fortunately a drop of lavender essential oil on either side of the incision deterred her. She gave it one lick, made a 'yuck' face and that was that. Lavender EO for the win! I've used that trick many a time, rarely fails
> 
> This morning she's licking her foot because we both got in to some fire ants in the dark of the morning wee outing
> ...


She only had one season a year , the first one with us 10 months after we got her and diagnosed by the vet and treated as a UTI. Then another one a year after that, but each one got heavier and after her last one was showing some signs of early pyo.
Luckily I was still in touch with the lady who'd bred her, the people who had her before me had promisd to get her spayed.


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

SusieRainbow said:


> I would like to see all bitches tattooed when spayed.
> Some may remember my little rescue, Tango, who we were told by the rescue had been spayed. It turned out she hadn't and she ended up having an emergency spay at 13 yrs old. She had an abdominal scar from a previous C Section which confused us.
> Any dog can potentially slip through the net and be at rsk.


I actually agree that I think all bitches should be tattooed, but I bet you'd have outcry from the lady down the road with her darling mrs fluffykins getting a tattoo!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> She only had one season a year , the first one with us 10 months after we got her and diagnosed by the vet and treated as a UTI. Then another one a year after that, but each one got heavier and after her last one was showing some signs of early pyo.
> Luckily I was still in touch with the lady who'd bred her, the people who had her before me had promisd to get her spayed.


That's crazy! If the vet thought she was spayed and there was a scar there, of course they would have thought UTI, and it did resolve too. Bless her, you're right a spay tattoo would have saved her and you a lot of grief!



Sarah H said:


> I actually agree that I think all bitches should be tattooed, but I bet you'd have outcry from the lady down with her darling mrs fluffykins getting a tattoo!


In some breeds ear tattooing is common. Racehorses here all have a lip tattoo identifying them. But yes, I can see some people getting all up in arms about heaven forbid tattooing a dog!

Penny's just a badass off the mean city streets with a tattoo and scar to show for it


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Sarah H said:


> I actually agree that I think all bitches should be tattooed, but I bet you'd have outcry from the lady down with her darling mrs fluffykins getting a tattoo!


But a little line next to the incison is so discreet but easy to find. I suppose for the majority of bitches it wouldn't be necessary, but likeTango some just slip through the net.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Even hairy dogs have less fur in the belly/midline area, it there is a convention for where to put the tattoo, it's not hard to find just parting the hair. And on bigger, more hairy dogs, you could make the tattoo bigger.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

As I say no dog's future is guaranteed to be straight forward. Tango's breeder was devastated to learn that she'd been surrendered to a rescue as, like all ethical breeders she had requested Tango be returned to her if her owners became unable to care for her.
Of course it would have been even better if Tango had been spayed prior to rehoming, I don't know if many breeders do that when rehoming retired breedng stock.

Anway,I digress, sorry O2.0.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> That's crazy! If the vet thought she was spayed and there was a scar there, of course they would have thought UTI, and it did resolve too. Bless her, you're right a spay tattoo would have saved her and you a lot of grief!
> 
> In some breeds ear tattooing is common. Racehorses here all have a lip tattoo identifying them. But yes, I can see some people getting all up in arms about heaven forbid tattooing a dog!
> 
> Penny's just a badass off the mean city streets with a tattoo and scar to show for it


But as it's done while under GA for the spay there's no drama.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> Anway,I digress, sorry O2.0.


No, not at all, I'm happy for this thread to veer and meander however it will 
And I completely agree with you that if breeders are going to rehome, they should absolutely spay/neuter and not rely on the new home to do it.

I've created an instagram account for Bates and Penny, it's a work in progress, all I currently have is a profile photo, but feel free to follow 
It's batesnpenny2020
I'm open to suggestions for the profile photo also. The one I picked is not set in stone.

Today's adventure was finding a crawdad at the creek and Penny's terrier side took over enough that she put several toes in the water woo hoo!
The behavior nerd in me is fascinated by the conflict between her curiosity and caution. And happily curiosity seems to be winning over.






Now we're off to the vet for a quick booster shot and maybe some more glue on her incision, though as good as it looks I don't think she needs it. We'll see what they say.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> No, not at all, I'm happy for this thread to veer and meander however it will
> And I completely agree with you that if breeders are going to rehome, they should absolutely spay/neuter and not rely on the new home to do it.
> 
> I've created an instagram account for Bates and Penny, it's a work in progress, all I currently have is a profile photo, but feel free to follow
> ...


The boxers are following you.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> finding a crawdad


what's a crawdad?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> what's a crawdad?


Fresh water mini lobster? LOL I don't even know. It's this guy, everyone around here calls them crawdads


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I think in U.K. they’re Crayfish?

I think Crawdad sounds more friendly though. My son came face to face with one in our local River Thames once, and couldn’t get out of the water fast enough. That was when he was early teens and 20 years later they still freak him out.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Are crayfish not about the size of a prawn? I'm sure I've had a salad with them and they were teeny.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

JoanneF said:


> Are crayfish not about the size of a prawn? I'm sure I've had a salad with them and they were teeny.


Bigger. Up to several inches and spooky looking. I'll check on Google though in case I'm getting the name wrong.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

found this. The ones I've seen are more transparent. Yuuuk.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

JoanneF said:


> Are crayfish not about the size of a prawn? I'm sure I've had a salad with them and they were teeny.


 I just love crayfish and yes they are tiny, just so tasty


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Way to go Penny


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

JoanneF said:


> Are crayfish not about the size of a prawn? I'm sure I've had a salad with them and they were teeny.


They grow things bigger in the States?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Are crayfish not about the size of a prawn? I'm sure I've had a salad with them and they were teeny.


A prawn is a shrimp right? 
Yes, crawdad/crayfish are small like shrimp though this particular one was pretty big. 
You can see a tiny bit of him in the video by Penny's nose.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> A prawn is a shrimp right?
> Yes, crawdad/crayfish are small like shrimp though this particular one was pretty big.
> You can see a tiny bit of him in the video by Penny's nose.


Shrimps are smaller still.

For us, a shrimp is about a cm long, a prawn about twice that.

What size is your crawdad? In France I think I saw something similar about 4 ~5 inches long?


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I'm pretty sure we have american crayfish in this country now, taking over from our native crayfish (those damn Americans get everywhere!!  ). And the American ones are bigger and bolshier and push our polite little crayfish out the way....lol

And we are following your Insta too!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> That was when he was early teens and 20 years later they still freak him out.


Oh how funny! Sorry to your son, but that is funny. Penny totally understands 



SbanR said:


> They grow things bigger in the States?


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious It's funny 'cause it's true. Big cars, big houses, big crayfish....
Except Penny, Penny is smol.



JoanneF said:


> What size is your crawdad?


This one is the biggest I remember seeing down at this stream, probably 5 to 6 inches (is this a fish story now?  ) They're usually smaller, well, in this creek they're smaller, throughout the country though they get pretty big, certainly the ones people eat are.



Sarah H said:


> And the American ones are bigger and bolshier and push our polite little crayfish out the way....lol


Oh no! How did American crawdads end up in England? Must be some idiot brought them over, they're all freshwater aren't they?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Vet trip done. Incision looks great, no more glue, she's good to go. 

Unfortunately I didn't even think about that the last time Penny was at the vet Bates was with her and she was fine. Not super excited to be there, but not overwhelmed either. 
This time I carried her in and she immediately started shaking. I just held her and talked to her and she did settle down fairly quickly, but definitely much more upset than the last time with Bates. I may have to bring him the next time she comes. Or let her come along the next time Bates has to go in for something.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Sarah H said:


> I'm pretty sure we have american crayfish in this country now, taking over from our native crayfish (those damn Americans get everywhere!!  ). And the American ones are bigger and bolshier and push our polite little crayfish out the way....lol
> 
> And we are following your Insta too!


Yes we definitely do have the American version here and they have almost completely wiped out the native crayfish which is why it's illegal to catch crayfish in this country without training so you can tell the difference, and a license. Consequently most crayfish that can be bought here is from China which is annoying. The american crayfish are called signal crayfish and are very destructive and numerous as well as being tasty. They deserve to be caught I reckon


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## katla (Aug 8, 2020)

O2.0 said:


> Vet trip done. Incision looks great, no more glue, she's good to go.
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't even think about that the last time Penny was at the vet Bates was with her and she was fine. Not super excited to be there, but not overwhelmed either.
> This time I carried her in and she immediately started shaking. I just held her and talked to her and she did settle down fairly quickly, but definitely much more upset than the last time with Bates. I may have to bring him the next time she comes. Or let her come along the next time Bates has to go in for something.


Oh bless she's so brave! It's nice that she trusts you so much that you're able to settle her down though


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

katla said:


> Oh bless she's so brave! It's nice that she trusts you so much that you're able to settle her down though


Hopefully it's trust and not Stockholm syndrome :Hilarious
No, she has definitely learned who her 'safe' people are, and people in general are feeling more and more safe to her. It's all good.

We just had 3 extra teenagers in the house and Penny sniffed feet then chose on her own to go in to her crate in the bedroom. No barking or spooking. Just caution, and then she decided to remove herself and got to a safe space. I'm totally cool with that. 
Now that they've left and the house is quiet she chose to be on the sofa with me, even though I keep getting up and down, she doesn't appear to mind. 
Making progress every day


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Tonight with dinner I did an experiment. I gave Penny a small end of a chicken wing just to see what she would do with it. 
She ate her regular food first, then made a valiant effort eating the chicken wing too. She's not quite sure how to do it, but she crunched some bones, and tried to grind through the skin with her molars. Once she figures out to use her feet she'll have this raw thing down. I had to hold it for her for several bites, but she did manage most of it. 
She's completely zonked out now, all that chewing and grinding wore her out, she didn't even think about messing with her incision after dinner (which is when she did last night). 
And hopefully the raw will help clean her teeth. She's already got some tartar on them and she's way too young for that!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Sarah H said:


> I'm pretty sure we have american crayfish in this country now, taking over from our native crayfish (those damn Americans get everywhere!!  ). And the American ones are bigger and bolshier and push our polite little crayfish out the way....lol
> 
> And we are following your Insta too!


They also carry a virus which kills the native crayfish, I believe.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> No, not at all, I'm happy for this thread to veer and meander however it will
> And I completely agree with you that if breeders are going to rehome, they should absolutely spay/neuter and not rely on the new home to do it.
> 
> I've created an instagram account for Bates and Penny, it's a work in progress, all I currently have is a profile photo, but feel free to follow
> ...


Sorry to derail but I'd never seen or heard the word 'crawdad' before, then I saw this today:

https://www.bookdepository.com/Wher...154668?ref=grid-view&qid=1599310731170&sr=1-1

No idea if its the same type but I thought it amusing that I saw this new (to me) word a couple of times in less than a week


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ForestWomble said:


> Sorry to derail but I'd never seen or heard the word 'crawdad' before, then I saw this today:
> 
> https://www.bookdepository.com/Wher...154668?ref=grid-view&qid=1599310731170&sr=1-1
> 
> No idea if its the same type but I thought it amusing that I saw this new (to me) word a couple of times in less than a week


Oh FW, that book is phenomenal!!!! I loved it so much, it was one that gave me a book depression when it was over 'cause I couldn't get in to another one as good. Beautifully written, and kept me guessing all the way to the end, I thought I had it figured out and I kept getting surprised.
Beautiful book, and the backdrop is very familiar too.

And yes, those are the same types of crawdads 

Are you going to read it? If so, let me know what you thought!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

My goal today is to see if I can get a good LLW video with Penny as that topic comes up so often. 
My video skills suck so I'm going to see if I can rig something with my phone ha ha! Should be interesting :Hilarious


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Oh FW, that book is phenomenal!!!! I loved it so much, it was one that gave me a book depression when it was over 'cause I couldn't get in to another one as good. Beautifully written, and kept me guessing all the way to the end, I thought I had it figured out and I kept getting surprised.
> Beautiful book, and the backdrop is very familiar too.
> 
> And yes, those are the same types of crawdads
> ...


It sounds like the type of book I'd enjoy, I do love mysteries so yes, think I'll get it and give it a go.


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## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

How random is this! I’ve been following this thread and I’m also looking for a book to take away on holiday with me in just over a week, so I decided to order that book since it’s free delivery! It may not come in time, but hopefully it will.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Penny is a clever girl, she is even influencing our reading now. :Hilarious

I too am tempted by the book, if not for me, as a Christmas pressie for someone.


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

Oh weird, I've just today started reading this.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Beth78 said:


> Oh weird, I've just today started reading this.


Let us know what you think please.
A possible Christmas present


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well, as suspected, attempts to film and train at the same time were an epic fail. Once I thought I hit record and didn't, couldn't treat and record at the same time, and then I tried to rig up the phone in my hat and Penny was never in the shot.

So, you get a grand total of 12 seconds of Penny responding to leash pressure.

However, I'll do some talking about what I'm doing to teach her leash manners. And maybe get a better video later this weekend.

First thing that's different is I'm no longer using the flexi. Flexi does have it's place, but for teaching leash manners, there's a couple things I can't do with a flexi. One, the nature of a flexi is that it is always somewhat taught. The spring of the reel will keep it at least slightly tight all the time. I want it to be easy for Penny to understand the difference between tight leash and loose leash and the flexi blurs that line and just makes it harder for the dog to understand.

The other thing I tend to do is drop the leash. One, I want her to be used to a leash 'chasing' her and not freak out by it, and two, there are all sorts of times when it's useful to be able to drop the leash and retrieve it later. 
When she pulls to a sniff and I get her to give in to leash pressure and orient back to me, I can reward that by letting her go sniff, to do that I'll drop the leash so that she doesn't get rewarded by *pulling* to the sniff. A long line would be good here too, but sniffs are generally safe to reward this way because the dog will stay there sniffing long enough for you to catch up and retrieve the leash.

When I start doing fast direction changes, that will involve dropping the leash as I don't want it to ever get tight. If she wraps around a tree, I'll drop the leash and catch it as she comes around. Or, like this morning, when she has a bout of mad zoomies, sometimes it's just easier to let her have at it (it was a safe area for her to do this) and grab the leash back when she's got them out of her system. She's not quite one week out from her spay and off all meds, and apparently neither one of us has any sense 

I'm walking in a 'boring' area that she's used to and not too many new things or major distractions. It's easy for her to choose to focus on me. But also, a check in is not a foreign concept to her, we've spent the last 3 weeks rewarding ear flicks and check-ins, plus she knows her name pretty well now, so I could also use her name to encourage her to turn around. As it is I didn't need to, and this is a nice way to build up using leash pressure as a cue to turn and reconnect with the handler.

Eventually I'll wait to mark when she's moving back towards me, and then I'll add in me moving backwards and really get her moving towards me. This is foundation for recall, but it's also good habits for her to learn to pay attention to where I am when she's on leash, which will hopefully turn in to a dog with nice leash manners.

"Yes" is her marker word, if I were using a clicker I would click. It's just nice to be able to mark the exact thing you're rewarding instead of her just thinking she's coming back to me for treats. 
Treats today are a combination of high value chicken and medium value commercial treats (zukes salmon), I like to keep 'em guessing. Sometimes she just gets a good girl. I'm all about variable reinforcement.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Beth78 said:


> Oh weird, I've just today started reading this.


Yes, please let us know what you think. It's a very regional book and I don't know how much of the magic for me was that I'm very familiar with the backdrop for the story.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

urbantigers said:


> How random is this! I've been following this thread and I'm also looking for a book to take away on holiday with me in just over a week, so I decided to order that book since it's free delivery! It may not come in time, but hopefully it will.


@lorilu recommended this book on another thread and so I read it and enjoyed it. As has been said it keeps you engaged from the very first page.
So glad little Penny has recovered well from her operation and isn't bothering her wound, neither Belle nor Suzie did when they got spayed.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Well, as suspected, attempts to film and train at the same time were an epic fail. Once I thought I hit record and didn't, couldn't treat and record at the same time, and then I tried to rig up the phone in my hat and Penny was never in the shot.
> 
> So, you get a grand total of 12 seconds of Penny responding to leash pressure.
> 
> ...


interesting to read the bit about pulling for sniffs as Ted does this. I stop so he can't drag me to it and he comes back to me but then when we set off again he wants the sniffs so sometimes pulls again... might try the dropping leash thing if we're in a safe space 

She is doing so well isn't she, and learning so quickly!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Teddy-dog said:


> interesting to read the bit about pulling for sniffs as Ted does this. I stop so he can't drag me to it and he comes back to me but then when we set off again he wants the sniffs so sometimes pulls again... might try the dropping leash thing if we're in a safe space
> 
> She is doing so well isn't she, and learning so quickly!


I'm all about the easy way out whenever feasible, dog can't pull if you're not holding the leash  It's such an easy solution, and kind of obvious - we do it all the time in other contexts. Like in puppy classes you have another family member call the pup and what do you do? Drop the leash and let the pup run to the person calling them. Then we go out in the world and forget that dropping the leash (or letting out the long line) is a totally okay solution to the dog pulling - in some contexts of course.

And it's just a nice way to reward the behavior you want and not accidentally reward the behavior you don't want.

Also nice if you put the sniffing on cue, just a 'go see' or 'go sniff' repeated every time you let them go sniff and they learn that cue super fast. Then you have the behavior on cue which technically should give you more control over it.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Can you handle the cute? I can't!


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I love the way you’ve morphed from ‘person who hikes trails’ to ‘person who buys pink collars’.

No criticism; I’m sure you do both.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> I love the way you've morphed from 'person who hikes trails' to 'person who buys pink collars'.
> 
> No criticism; I'm sure you do both.


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
I just bought a purple leash :Bag

But I'm also hiking this morning!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Today's videos are pretty cute so if you don't care about the behavior nerd aspect, you can enjoy the cute 

Sorry in advance, this one is long! Hopefully it's also helpful 

First off, engagement. 
Engagement is one of those training buzzwords that people say a lot, but what is it really? How do you get it? And why is it important?

To me, engagement is when the dog is actively interested in you and what you're doing and wants to participate. 
Penny does a beautiful demo of engagement at the beginning of this video. She's looking at me, (not the bag of treats in my hand), she's active (and a little cold), and she's eager to do *something*, she doesn't know what, but whatever I have in mind, she's game.

How did we get here? Well, it's still very much a work in progress, but basically by rewarding her for being interested in me, while also making myself fun and interesting. It's not just on walks and training sessions. Every interaction with our dogs is 'training' and the more enjoyment they have interacting with you, the easier it is to create engagement. 
That doesn't mean I play with her constantly, but whenever appropriate, there is play, pets and scratches she likes, and treats and/or praise for behaviors I like (I have treats strategically placed in the house and usually also in my pockets).

So why does this engagement thing even matter? Well, because once I start teaching her behaviors like sit, down, come, leave it, whatever, it's a thousand times easier to teach a dog to *do* things when they're engaged. 
I think a lot of new owners get really frustrated trying to teach their puppy or new dog to do things before they've got engagement. It's really hard to get a puppy to sit when they're all over the place and only vaguely interested in you. Owners get frustrated, pup senses the frustration, and the whole thing goes downhill. 
See, every time we teach a behavior, we're also teaching a mindset that the dog will forever associate with that behavior. If a dog learns to sit while distracted, they will learn that sit is a distracted behavior. If a dog learns down while uncomfortable or even afraid, the dog will associate fear and discomfort with down. But on the flipside, if the dog learns down while happy and engaged, yep, you get a happy and engaged down. 
It makes everyone's lives a lot easier to just focus on engagement at first, and wait to teach behaviors once the dog is actually engaged with you.

The other thing that happens in this video is that Penny dis-engages from me. She sees the cat and I disappear off her radar. That's okay. Notice I just ignore the whole thing. 
While she's engaged, I talk to her, we're having fun, when I lose her, I don't try to get her attention back. I will eventually, but if I did at this point I'd just be teaching her to ignore me. We're not there yet. 
Instead I drop the leash (which nicely happened right when she gave in to leash pressure - purely accident but I'll take it), and let her go chase the cat who I know isn't going to run, so it's safe. And then, look what Penny does! She turns right back to me!! Yay! So I reward that. Penny just learned that the cat is boring, mom is interesting and has treats. 





This next clip is cute zoomies, but I wanted to point something else out. Penny has a tendency to play keep away in that she will run away from me in play. I'm not crazy about this tendency, I'd much rather she run *to* me. 
When Bates play bows at me, I'll run up to him because he has always loved slamming in to me. If I were to run up to Penny, or even walk up, she's going to run away and that's very counterproductive for a lot of things. So notice that when she play bows to me, I move back and encourage her to come to me. 
Pups can be really cute running around playing keep away and it's tempting to join in, but I'm deliberately encouraging her to come *to* me so that when she does have a bout of zoomies, it won't also include 'catch me if you can.' 
A lot of our play is going to involve me running away from her.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Recall and off leash training is going well thanks to the bestest old man dog ever  
Have I asked enough times how one possibly raises a dog without a doggy role model?!

She is a happy, happy doggo


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Oh she's so cute! And she loves her Ole Uncky Bates


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

She is so cute love watching her follow Bates around. Loki does this with Sox. She still has a lot of puppy cute firsts he.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Oh Penny is so adorable, bless her xx


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Is there anything better than watching a former stray go from survival mode to taking time to play and be silly? This just makes my heart happy  





Big day today! 
We all had work and school and Penny had to be alone (with Bates) for 6 hours, which is the longest we've left her yet. We have her in a great dane sized crate, it's rather comical but she is a chewer, and this is just safer.

She did great! She has water, a pee pad, a bed, blankie, and toys in her crate. I took her for a good walk before we left and as far as we can tell she slept all day. Did not need the pee pad, daughter came home, walked her, she peed and pooped, but wasn't desperate or ready to pop.

She's been super playful and happy, I just took her on a longer walk, and taking advantage of it being near dinner time (she's hungry) and having been gone all day she's pretty excited about playing with me, we did more recall games.

Here I purposefully don't say anything and see if she notices I'm moving away. She does right away and is eager to come. Awesome! I'll take it! 
I also change direction, and my personal favorite, I hide from her. This one is kind of mean, though I do pop out before she gets too worried, but it does keep her on her toes and encourages frequent check-ins, all of which is great foundation for a good recall.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Beth78 said:


> Oh weird, I've just today started reading this.


How are you liking the book so far?


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> How are you liking the book so far?


I'm liking it so far, its intriguing. It is sad though, I really feel for little kya. The descriptions are beautiful


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

You are so lucky to have found little Penny, it was meant to be. Just the thought of her not finding you and surviving as a stray doesn't bear thinking of. Especially with winter coming soon.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I had an audible credit to use so I've got the Where the crawdads sing as an audiobook. Started listening today so will see how it goes.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

margy said:


> You are so lucky to have found little Penny, it was meant to be. Just the thought of her not finding you and surviving as a stray doesn't bare thinking of. Especially with winter coming soon.


I still can't believe I have a smol dog LOL! 
And yes, I am really glad I caught her and decided to keep her


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> I still can't believe I have a smol dog LOL!
> And yes, I am really glad I caught her and decided to keep her


And she's a character.

"Get Ready to Rumble" is written all over her.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> And she's a character.
> 
> "Get Ready to Rumble" is written all over her.


She really is a total character. More and more she's coming in to her own, and oh boy! She's a little spitfire!

She's pretty much all off leash now when it's light out and we're on the property. In the morning in the dark I'm not sure it's safe yet, but afternoons in the light, she's off, and it's a good thing 'cause she sure has a lot of ants in her pants to get out! :Hilarious:Hilarious






Bates is so sweet, but he's way past zoomie age!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I love the way Bates is just staring at her.

"Seriously kid - give us a break".


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> I love the way Bates is just staring at her.
> 
> "Seriously kid - give us a break".


I know :Hilarious:Hilarious
He secretly kind of really likes her  :Kiss


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)




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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

It's a real pleasure to see the sheer joy in her as she is running and digging. What a massive difference in her life.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

He's so calm and tolerant , no worries he'll get carried away and stomp on her, which is why Belle didn't like big dogs.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> It's a real pleasure to see the sheer joy in her as she is running and digging. What a massive difference in her life.


It is for me too  Rescue is selfish work, I'm just in it to enjoy the transformation ha ha! But it really does do something warm to your heart to see the difference in her already.
3 weeks:

















I could watch her dig all day! I didn't know little legs could move that fast  
That sand has shifted and moved about over the years, changing the creek bed, and many a doggo has loved coming down here to dig in it. It feels like just the other day Bates was that silly digging and zooming through the creek. 
Penny hasn't made it in to the water on purpose yet, but she's getting very bold about jumping across and has splashed her belly a few times 



margy said:


> He's so calm and tolerant , no worries he'll get carried away and stomp on her, which is why Belle didn't like big dogs.


LOL his brakes aren't the best, especially going downhill, and since she basically circles him the whole time, he has run in to /run over her a few times. But she's speedy and he's slow and it doesn't seem to bother her. She did yip one time, but I think that was more surprise than pain. She's a tough little brown monster dog  
She seems to have really good dog skills, I'm interested to see how she does with other dogs. I'm going to give her one more week post spay to make sure hormones have settled, and let her meet my friend's dogs who come stay with us.


----------



## katla (Aug 8, 2020)

The difference in her between these two pictures is incredible! It's so lovely to see the happy, confident dog she's turned into with you!


----------



## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Just watching those videos with a silly grin on my face  
Penny is such a great little dog.


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I love her! She's such a little firecracker.

Zoom, dig, zoom, splash, play bow, bark, zooooom! What a life.....


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Wow doesn’t she shift and those little legs digging as fast as possible. She seems really happy and very puppyish


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

The transformation from day one to now is truly wonderful.
That first picture brings tears to my eyes.
She really fell on her paws when you came along & rescued her.
She’s such a happy girlie & she adores Bates. He’s like her big, gentle brother looking down on her.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ebonycat said:


> The transformation from day one to now is truly wonderful.
> That first picture brings tears to my eyes.
> She really fell on her paws when you came along & rescued her.
> She's such a happy girlie & she adores Bates. He's like her big, gentle brother looking down on her.


It's funny how the universe works. I really was not intending to keep her, I just wanted her out on the road. I really didn't want a fearful dog, project dog, and definitely not one this small. But sometimes you just know. I had to carry her in my arms for a mile back to the house to get her sorted, and in that walk, something happened 



ForestWomble said:


> Penny is such a great little dog.


I really feel like we really lucked out. She's so many things I really like in a dog, she's full of herself, mischievous, majorly food and toy driven, loves to play, handler focused, and fun as heck to work with. I guess she's kind of cute too 



Siskin said:


> She seems really happy and very puppyish


I think so too - puppyish. Makes me really wonder about her age. She has some young dog behaviors with Bates too, like reaching under and licking his muzzle, and he's giving her much more leeway than he would an older dog. Maybe he thinks she's cute too 

And for sure, happeee happeee dog LOL!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Two excellent updates today. She was outside with OH, off leash, just mooching about in the front yard, and a clap of thunder hit. She ran up to the porch and sat in front of the front door. Perfect! I want her thinking of the house as safety.

Later this evening I took her out at dusk, off leash again. She stuck her nose in some tall grass and something bit her and she startled and started freaking out a little. I called her, crouched down, and she rant *to* me and let me rub her muzzle and 'fix' it. Another success. She knows I can help. 
(I've made a point of wiping cobwebs off her when I notice they bother her, or rubbing her ears when she itches them, so she learns that hoomans are good for more than just food dispensing  )

And how rude would it be if I didn't add pictures or a video to an update?  
No video, just some stealth-mode hunting Penny shots. 
One of the times I saw her when she was running loose, it was far off and I thought it might have been a fox. Now I see why! 
You can definitely see the terrier in these shots. She's built to move for sure!


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Just been catching up on this. I hadn't realised the last time I checked in was Monday. :Wideyed

Loving the videos of her digging. She is such a completely different dog already. The "before and after" pics are respectively heartbreaking and heartwarming -, such a huge difference in body language!

As for the latest pics, I can see why you thought she was a fox, given that first pic.

All in all, she definitely landed on her feet with you.


----------



## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

After losing Belle I wasn't sure if I would bother logging onto dog chat much, maybe now and again to see how the boxer boys were doing. But now I have to have a look every day to see how our little Penny is doing. As has been said such a difference in her from the lost little soul you found,all nervous with her tail tucked under to the bright alert pup now.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

margy said:


> But now I have to have a look every day to see how our little Penny is doing.


Aw Margy, that made me sad and happy at the same time. It's so hard when we lose them 
And now I feel pressure to make sure I keep this thread going LOL 

Currently willing to stick a stamp on Penny's butt and send her to whoever will have her. It's raining and I didn't give her a proper walk so she has discovered that if she nibbles my toes I make fun noises.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well my goal was for Penny to get in the water by the end of the summer. Goal achieved!
She got in and a whole new world of leaf chasing and blowing bubbles has opened up for her! 






And just in case you thought she was perfect, here she is giving me a lovely head turn but zero recall 
I'll forgive her though, she really did *just* discover how much fun water is.






We can't leave Bates out! He's so incredibly patient. I love him :Kiss


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## katla (Aug 8, 2020)

It's so lovely to see her exploring and playing with such content and confidence. I still can't get over how drastically her life has changed since she found you!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

katla said:


> It's so lovely to see her exploring and playing with such content and confidence. I still can't get over how drastically her life has changed since she found you!


I know - she has gone from literally just surviving to security, comfort, kindness and love in such a short time.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

She is so cute what a lovely manner with Bates. Sox sends his sympathy.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I feel like the lucky one  
Lucky that she has turned out to be such an awesome little dog, and lucky to have the kind of home set-up where I can really help a dog like her. 
I knew she would come around, I just didn't think it would be this quick!

Today marks 4 weeks since I caught her. 
Silly doggos!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> She is so cute what a lovely manner with Bates. Sox sends his sympathy.


Poor Sox! It is hard dealing with a puppy! :Hilarious:Hilarious

My plan is for Penny to keep Bates young


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

She really is adorable and so busy ! 
The latest pictures make me think Podenco. ( Ibizan hound)


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2020)

Been a silent follower and reader, I love the updates of Penny  so happy for her and you.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Poor Sox! It is hard dealing with a puppy! :Hilarious:Hilarious
> 
> My plan is for Penny to keep Bates young


Loki has certainly done that with sox.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

She really is a great little dog isn’t she  love reading her updates and seeing your photos and videos. Bates has welcomed her into the family so well


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

That spooning photo is absolutely precious.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> That spooning photo is absolutely precious.


If you like that one, check out this ridiculousness. 









Penny's belly hair needs to grow back!

Today has been an eventful day. This morning's stream exploring left Penny wet and stinky so we gave her a bath/rinse off in the kitchen sink - definitely a first for me. She did not enjoy it, but it definitely went better than her first bath the day I caught her.

Then later I did Bates nails and Penny consented to me touching her nails with the dremel (dremel was off) but she did let me touch all 4 nails on one foot so that was huge.

Then I vacuumed, again, not Penny's favorite, but she found a human in different rooms to sit next to for safety. 
Lots of scary things overcome today, so she's wiped out right now. I hope she doesn't get her second wind at bedtime!


----------



## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> If you like that one, check out this ridiculousness.
> View attachment 449364
> 
> 
> ...


This photo is so meltingly sweet:Kiss
Will you frame it?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SbanR said:


> This photo is so meltingly sweet:Kiss
> Will you frame it?


I might, I'm not the best about doing stuff like that. Barely have photos of the kids LOL!

Right now I'm just spamming the batesnpenny instagram with photos and videos 

I have a suspicion I'll get some more cute shots especially as it starts cooling off and getting chillier in the mornings. And hopefully Penny's belly hair will be grown back by then!


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Hi @O2.0 Bates & Penny, how are you all.
I'm missing a Penny update & videos 
Hoping all's well x


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

So much cute !


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ebonycat said:


> Hi @O2.0 Bates & Penny, how are you all.
> I'm missing a Penny update & videos
> Hoping all's well x


Thank you for asking! 
Penny is doing well enough to keep me too busy to post! We had a full day Monday and Tuesday without much time to get on here and update with pictures.

She's fully off leash on the property, I think I said this already but I'm reminded every day of how nice it is again to be able to open the door and just let her out. At dawn and dusk I still keep her leashed though, I'm worried about predators and the leash is just a nice safety net. 
Since our first walk in the morning is in the dark, and on a leash, I may splurge on a nice retractable leash with a flashlight attachment - something I didn't even know existed, let alone that I needed 

She is a brave little daredevil, and loves to climb on things like fallen logs or leap over the rocks. Proper puppy parkour doggo 

My apologies for depriving you of your Penny fix (and Bates, can't forget about the old man :Kiss)


























In other news, I just paid attention to my you tube channel and realized I had a ton of notifications. Apparently Penny's "water dog" video has 58K views and 30 comments including one I had to delete (something about hot women) and another guy telling me my dog is going to die from algae poisoning 
Not gonna lie, very uncomfortable with that level of attention, I may have to spend some time making sure I have videos set to restricted so that only people with the link can see them. Fortunately all the other videos have remained largely unnoticed.

Does anyone know how to link instagram videos on to a thread?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Let's see if this works

__
http://instagr.am/p/CFNqnoBFt8C/


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## Rosie64 (Feb 27, 2014)

It works for me , she is certainly not afraid of the water any more , she does make me laugh with her puppyish antics


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Aww bless her. She looks so confident and happy! 

You can post YouTube videos as ‘unlisted’. It should be an option when you’re uploading it (and maybe editing them). Then only people you share the link with should be able to see the video as it won’t show up in any searches or anything!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Aww she’s such a happy little dog, it’s a joy to see her


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Do you think she's grown a bit since you've had her @O2.0, she seems a little bigger to me


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rosie64 said:


> It works for me , she is certainly not afraid of the water any more , she does make me laugh with her puppyish antics


Me too, she cracks me up. And I agree she seems very puppyish to me too. I don't know if it's because she's younger than we thought, or because she missed being able to be a puppy and is making up for lost time 



Teddy-dog said:


> You can post YouTube videos as 'unlisted'. It should be an option when you're uploading it (and maybe editing them). Then only people you share the link with should be able to see the video as it won't show up in any searches or anything!


I thought I had my default set to that, but I'll go back and change those. Thank you.



ebonycat said:


> Aww she's such a happy little dog, it's a joy to see her


She definitely has brought lots of joy (and a little bit of disruption) to our lives! 



Siskin said:


> Do you think she's grown a bit since you've had her @O2.0, she seems a little bigger to me


You know? I picked her up yesterday and said she felt heavier, she's certainly not fat, but she did feel heavier to me. Might get her weighed at the vet just to see. I don't think she has gotten taller, but she is carrying herself so differently now, more puffed out in a way, and I do think that makes her appear bigger. I wonder if she might have muscled up some too?


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

She looks soooo happy n busy:Kiss
Please link ALL future instagram clips!


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> You know? I picked her up yesterday and said she felt heavier, she's certainly not fat, but she did feel heavier to me. Might get her weighed at the vet just to see. I don't think she has gotten taller, but she is carrying herself so differently now, more puffed out in a way, and I do think that makes her appear bigger. I wonder if she might have muscled up some too?


I was thinking she looked bigger, but you're probably right that it's muscle and her generally looking happy and healthier.


----------



## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

I'd go with muscle mass, yeah. Most people are probably not as anal as me for checking, but I regularly weigh Cad at home. Super useful in combination with BCS to tell what's happening. Cad is almost a whole Kg heavier with muscles than he was before - pretty substantial amount when you're that small!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SbanR said:


> She looks soooo happy n busy:Kiss
> Please link ALL future instagram clips!


I shall  
I think I'm going to stick to instagram for now. I'm still trying to figure out how that water dog video ended up being so popular, it's going crazy and it's not even one of the better videos of her 
Not going to lie, I'm quite entertained reading some of the comments.



Sarah H said:


> I was thinking she looked bigger, but you're probably right that it's muscle and her generally looking happy and healthier.


Amazing what eating a decent dog food, not cheap cat food and scavenged scraps can do LOL  I was also noticing her coat is much darker, or just in better shape. All she's getting is a good quality wet and dry mix, some raw, treats - mostly zukes, and I give her a little MSM with her food. 
I think getting good sleep really matters too. I don't imagine she slept well or much how she was living before.



Torin. said:


> I'd go with muscle mass, yeah. Most people are probably not as anal as me for checking, but I regularly weigh Cad at home. Super useful in combination with BCS to tell what's happening. Cad is almost a whole Kg heavier with muscles than he was before - pretty substantial amount when you're that small!


How much does Cad weigh? Yes a Kg would be a big difference on Penny, she's only 9 pounds to start with! I wonder if she's made it to 10


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> How much does Cad weigh? Yes a Kg would be a big difference on Penny, she's only 9 pounds to start with! I wonder if she's made it to 10


He was 5.75Kg last Friday. His weight isn't as stable as MorilCat's, but anything in the 5.7-6.1Kg bracket is good for him, depending on the amount of hillwork we've been doing.

When I was having all my issues with feeding him mountains of food that wasn't nutritionally dense enough for him/ foods with wheat and sweet potato in (before I worked out he was intollerent) he was in the 4.7-5.2Kg bracket. However much food I fed him, he just wasn't building muscle at all. Not as bad as being loose without a home obviously, but not meeting his metabolic needs. It was so severe that that food trial was a last ditch attempt before blood tests looking for pancreatic issues. Cad's instagram tagline was originally "[list of dogsports] and I'm under 5Kg!" as I joined at the worst of his food issues. Then I changed it to "only 5Kg!" and now it's "under 6Kg" haha.

So I would say Penny putting on around a pound in muscle in the time you've had her wouldn't be surprising at all


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Torin. said:


> He was 5.75Kg last Friday. His weight isn't as stable as MorilCat's, but anything in the 5.7-6.1Kg bracket is good for him, depending on the amount of hillwork we've been doing.
> 
> When I was having all my issues with feeding him mountains of food that wasn't nutritionally dense enough for him/ foods with wheat and sweet potato in (before I worked out he was intollerent) he was in the 4.7-5.2Kg bracket. However much food I fed him, he just wasn't building muscle at all. Not as bad as being loose without a home obviously, but not meeting his metabolic needs. It was so severe that that food trial was a last ditch attempt before blood tests looking for pancreatic issues. Cad's instagram tagline was originally "[list of dogsports] and I'm under 5Kg!" as I joined at the worst of his food issues. Then I changed it to "only 5Kg!" and now it's "under 6Kg" haha.
> 
> So I would say Penny putting on around a pound in muscle in the time you've had her wouldn't be surprising at all


Oh wow so Cad is bigger than Penny, to me he looks smaller in photos! 
Her weight at our first vet visit and again when she was spayed was 9.6 pounds, 4.4 kg
She does feel heavier to me now, I suppose I could put her on the scale with me holding her and subtract my weight but I don't think that would be as accurate as getting her weighed at the vet. 
It's not a huge deal as far as hands and eyes on her, she's in great condition, nice little muscly legs on her, so I'm not too worried, just interested really.

It does blow my mind though that some dogs are bred to be even smaller than she is, cause she seems so tiny to me, and I guess she's not really.

We're having a tropical storm blow through and it is pouring down rain! Penny bless her is not precious about getting wet, and she did go out to pee and poop, but was not really in to going for a walk. So we came back and she zoomied inside instead  Perks of being little, you can zoomie inside without the humans yelling at you that you're going to break things :Hilarious


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> Oh wow so Cad is bigger than Penny, to me he looks smaller in photos!
> Her weight at our first vet visit and again when she was spayed was 9.6 pounds, 4.4 kg
> She does feel heavier to me now, I suppose I could put her on the scale with me holding her and subtract my weight but I don't think that would be as accurate as getting her weighed at the vet.
> It's not a huge deal as far as hands and eyes on her, she's in great condition, nice little muscly legs on her, so I'm not too worried, just interested really.


Ahh so I'm lucky because, having started with cats, I have scales that go up to 20Kg at home already. They're officially human baby scales, but highly recommended in CC for weighing cats at home, whereby the stress of leaving home territory and going to the vets just to be weighed is much more than with dogs. And since they're here and I'm weighing Moril regularly.... Might as well also weigh the dog!

Also damn yes! I thought they were about the same size too, judging by photos! Mind you, I often think photos of @picaresque's Gelly are photos of Cad that I've somehow not remembered taking when I'm scrolling quickly


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

After bitches have their first season, they do begin to muscle up.

Rudi was quite scrawny until she had her first season and now, she's a lot like a bull!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> After bitches have their first season, they do begin to muscle up.


I'm starting to wonder if that was indeed her first season. If she were 18 months as we first suspected it would more likely have been her second, but I'm starting to think she's younger than 18 months and that was her first season.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Torin. said:


> Also damn yes! I thought they were about the same size too, judging by photos! Mind you, I often think photos of @picaresque's Gelly are photos of Cad that I've somehow not remembered taking when I'm scrolling quickly


I get the same in reverse unless there's something in the background that gives scale haha


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Today's videos brought to you by the most patient and bestest dog ever - not Penny LOL  But her big bro/uncle Bates. 
In his heyday Bates was very much an arsehole dog and still has exceedingly low tolerance for rude dogs, and yet he is so good with puppies and for all his dog intolerance, he's ridiculously tolerant of puppies. 
Penny apparently falls under the "it's too cute to eat" puppy category :Hilarious
Though he will growl at her when he's had enough and she's good about respecting his 'enough' cues 

Penny thrilled to be out rain or shine. Bates less impressed on multiple levels  

__
http://instagr.am/p/CFQQ5lulj2_/

This one is just 2 minutes of awwww. Enjoy. It's unlisted so let me know if there are any issues playing it.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

It worked, how lovely to see.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

It's like watching a blossoming love affair.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Aww bless them, aren’t they sweet together. It’s lovely to see their friendship blossom


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Oh my gosh, how adorably cute are they. Bates really is a kind soul with Penny, they really do adore each other.
So lovely to watch them together x


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> It worked, how lovely to see.


Were you able to access both videos? 
Just wondering if it's better to do unlisted youtube links or instagram links.

I forsee Penny keeping Bates young  The part I didn't catch on video was when Penny first started inciting play and Bates was still standing up. The old man actually bounced and did shuffle/spin :Hilarious:Hilarious How Penny didn't get trampled I have no idea other than she's extremely fast and somehow manages to be under his feet yet not in the way of his feet. It's a talent! 

I always wanted him to help me raise one more puppy, but I was worried that a puppy would be too much for him. The universe works in funny ways because this has worked out perfectly. Penny isn't full annoying puppy, and she's small enough that she won't hurt him if she gets the crazies. He can still have his rest and not be constantly bothered, but she encourages him to play also. Best of both worlds!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Lovely video they really are so sweet. You can tell she dotes on him. It’s so nice to see the transition from that first photo to now. Has she met many other dogs ?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Lovely video they really are so sweet. You can tell she dotes on him. It's so nice to see the transition from that first photo to now. Has she met many other dogs ?


No, she hasn't met any other dogs yet.

At some point soon I'm going to have to get together with some of my dog owning friends and see how she does. I'm going to guess she has good dog skills, however she's also enough terrier that she doesn't share well, mostly her humans. Like, she doesn't like it when I pay attention to the cats, she barrels in and inserts herself in the middle of me and the cats. But she thinks cats are superfluous animals anyway. 
With Bates it's more a FOMO thing. If I'm paying attention to Bates she comes over out of FOMO, not possessiveness with me or Bates.

One of my friends has a beagle with great dog skills so we'll probably meet her, and the beagle is pretty human neutral so she won't be interested in me unless I initiate it.

My other friend has the terrier mutt and sighthound who come stay with us. They both have good dog skills and get along with Bates too. There might be some posturing and shuffling but I don't anticipate too many problems there.

We'll just have to see....


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Were you able to access both videos?


Yes, the Instagram one was a hyperlink that took me to your Instagram page. If I hadn't been accepted to follow them there, I don't know if I'd have been able to see it.

The YouTube one looked like a video in the same way as when we link to Kikopup etc.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Little terriorist has been up since 5:30 (to be fair I get up at 4:40 on weekdays so I guess she sort of slept in). 
She has been walked, fed, and harassed me to play with her. Little monster much prefers chewing on me than her toys. Her many, many toys and random hand towel that needed to be brought up on the sofa too 

Ouch!! 









It's a good thing she's cute!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

This one makes me happy. If you watch to the end, you'll see her do a little spook. But watch what she does, she spooks, and turns around and checks with me - awesome! 
Also awesome that it was such a little spook. 3 weeks ago that would have been much scarier  

__
http://instagr.am/p/CFU-aixlg84/


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

She is so adorable!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I just love that she has learned that she is safe with you.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> I just love that she has learned that she is safe with you.


You and me both! It eases so many of my worries. I can handle pretty much anything else as far as 'problem' behaviors but when you live backed up to 500 acres of feral land, a dog who will bolt in fear and not be found is not a good thing  
Even if she were to spook and bolt, I think she would still come to me eventually, or at least the house. But honestly at this point I don't think she would bolt at all.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

She definitely knows which side her bread is buttered now!


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

She certainly trusts you now, and is so fast. Just a blur in that film.


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## MRQuad (Sep 5, 2020)

she is so lovely! thank you for sharing!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

How about a nerdy training post?

Since she thinks we need to get up at the crack of dawn, I just gave in and took her to a local State Park this morning that's really close to the house. We had the park to ourselves, well other than the deer and squirrels 

Penny was excited, interested in the new environment, nervous about it too, and completely unable to take treats from me.

Fun trick: When the environment is that distracting, work the reward in to the environment. In this case I put a treat off the trail a bit where Penny would have to sniff it out to find it. She wants to be sniffing around in this new environment anyway, this way, I build value for me, and interacting with me even if the environment is really distracting:






This was last night. Working on hand touch. It's her first session figuring this one out, you can see her defaulting to eye contact - the first thing she learned playing this game. I'm totally okay with that, and she's learning to offer more behaviors. 
Eventually I'll build in more enthusiasm and intensity, but here is where it's at for now:


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

A couple more training videos. Or play videos?  Play is training and training is play right? 

This one is more work on targeting my hand. This is such a great behavior to teach because you can use it for so many things. I also throw in a collar grab and a sit. The collar grab looks kind of rough, but her body language shows me she's totally okay with that, and sometimes in real life a quick grab can be fairly rough, so I want her to know it's okay if that were to happen.






This one is same things but while I get her riled up. I'm a big believer in dogs being able to respond to cues even when excited and amped up. So I train for it. Added bonus is you get really fun, energetic behaviors this way too. Of course sometimes they get OTT and you can't do anything for a few moments as you'll see for one collar grab, but she eventually gets there. It's all good, part of the process. 
Same thing, hand target and collar grabs. I also work on her following my hand, and being okay with my hand 'getting' her, so she knows it's play and not to worry about that.






I'm really proud of her engagement in both of these videos, we're down at the stream, lots of things to sniff water to play in, all sorts of other things she could be giving her attention to and she chooses to work with me. I had no idea this pup would turn out to be so cool! Fun stuff


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I love Penny she is bonkers isn’t she !


----------



## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

That made me chuckle, she's picking it up so quickly and having fun too.


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

What I loved was the absolute trust she has in Bates. He could get her whole head in his mouth but she's so relaxed and happy with him!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> I love Penny she is bonkers isn't she !


LOL yep  A total nut ball!



margy said:


> That made me chuckle, she's picking it up so quickly and having fun too.


She very much enjoys training, she likes figuring things out, and you can tell she gets a boost of confidence when she figures out new things. It makes training fun for me too! 



SusieRainbow said:


> What I loved was the absolute trust she has in Bates. He could get her whole head in his mouth but she's so relaxed and happy with him!


She has his number  He tells her off all the time and she doesn't even flinch, she knows he's a big softie and doesn't really mean it.


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

I love how much of a convert you are, and how you're now feeling the ARGH of some small dog specific things


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> A couple more training videos. Or play videos?  Play is training and training is play right?
> 
> This one is more work on targeting my hand. This is such a great behavior to teach because you can use it for so many things. I also throw in a collar grab and a sit. The collar grab looks kind of rough, but her body language shows me she's totally okay with that, and sometimes in real life a quick grab can be fairly rough, so I want her to know it's okay if that were to happen.
> 
> ...


Love these videos. Really made me smile.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Torin. said:


> I love how much of a convert you are, and how you're now feeling the ARGH of some small dog specific things


My biggest "argh" so far is in searching for equipment - long line, harness, etc. So much of it seems to assume little dogs don't *do* anything doggy-ish and don't get trained. enguin

Penny is a run through the woods, get wet and dirty, jump and run around kind of dog. She needs a harness that's well-made and durable, but that doesn't weigh half her body weight. 
Thank goodness she has done so well off leash, because for a while I was looking for a long line for her to trail, and they're all heavy duty and not suitable for a little 9 pound dog. Little dogs need to learn to be off-leash too, they need long lines too!

My next challenge will be to find a PFD for her that's small enough to fit her but still allows her freedom of movement. Apparently if a small dog is in a PFD they don't need to move? But I have all winter, Kayaking season is not 'till spring 



LinznMilly said:


> Love these videos. Really made me smile.


Thank you  
I love how readily she has taken to training. From the epic clicker fail the first time to where she is now, I'm very happy with how she's doing. Can't wait to teach her all sorts of fun stuff!


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

What a supper little lady! She looks like so much fun and Bates, what a guy, he comes across so calm and caring. Really enjoying seeing her progress and getting some tips along the way, so wanted to thank you.

Would make a great Disney movie, Penny as the plucky survivor, Bates the handsome hero and you as the inspiring mentor - "Penny's Progress"


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> What a supper little lady! She looks like so much fun and Bates, what a guy, he comes across so calm and caring. Really enjoying seeing her progress and getting some tips along the way, so wanted to thank you.
> 
> Would make a great Disney movie, Penny as the plucky survivor, Bates the handsome hero and you as the inspiring mentor - "Penny's Progress"


Oh I'm so glad to hear it's helpful to you. I feel sometimes like I'm getting annoying with the training posts, I could geek out on training stuff all day long  but I really wanted for this thread to be helpful to others too. Not just to me as I look back.

Your Disney movie idea! :Hilarious:Hilarious I'll sell it to them and when it takes off I'll share the profits with you :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Today marks week 6 and I would say Penny is pretty much settled in. Still a couple spooks from time to time (dropping a ceramic bowl yesterday and shattering it on the floor didn't impress her, but she recovered quickly). I would say Penny is well and truly settled in  
I guess naturally updates will happen less frequently now, but I promise to still update especially with the nerdy training stuff.

In that vein, I had a good opportunity today to learn her and assess her off leash safety. She saw and chased not one but two rabbits this morning. Her chase drive is all about movement, once the rabbit disappears in to the brush, she loses interest. Very good to know. 
She also has that invisible umbilical line to me and to the house. The further we are from the house, or familiar territory, the closer she stays to me. 
So I'm having more and more confidence that if she does take after something here on the property, she will come back either to me or to the house.

Obviously the ideal is to not lose her on a chase at all. In both instances this morning, she did come back pretty quickly, and got hugely rewarded for that. She's no where near ready to recall off a chase so I purposefully did not call her back mid chase, though the second time I did call her back while she was still sniffing after losing the bunny, and she came beautifully, so that was awesome.

I can't even express how nice it is to know she's well on her way to having great recall and being off leash safe. That's such a big factor in my own enjoyment of a dog, and I think in the dogs' lives too. I know there are some awesome owners out there who give their dogs rich lives never being off leash, but I am not that good! My dogs need to be able to be off leash.

The obligatory cute photos  
Sorry they're so dark, it's been overcast and pooky here lately.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> Oh I'm so glad to hear it's helpful to you. I feel sometimes like I'm getting annoying with the training posts, I could geek out on training stuff all day long  but I really wanted for this thread to be helpful to others too. Not just to me as I look back.
> 
> Your Disney movie idea! :Hilarious:Hilarious I'll sell it to them and when it takes off I'll share the profits with you :Hilarious:Hilarious


The videos are great, picking up lots of tips, I cast them to my tv and she's even cuter close up, what a beautiful dog she is. I also now have a soft spot for Bates, his demeanour and attitude towards Penny are great.

Not sure how I missed this post 1st time round I didn't get a notification


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well what a way to test out recall 
We just surprised a coyote in broad daylight walking down to the stream! 
He ran as soon as he saw me, Penny barked and chased for a second then her brain kicked in or the panic in my voice registered and she ran up to me. We sat there for a minute, pressed up against each other. Her hackles were up and she was low growling, my heart rate was up there!
Then I picked her up and carried her back to the house. When we were closer to the house I put her down again and she stuck to me like glue. Yikes!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Scary! But good result, you must be pleased about the outcome.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Scary! But good result, you must be pleased about the outcome.


I'm glad she ran back to me, yes, but I wish she had been more afraid of him LOL! 
All this time building her confidence and here is one occasion where I do not want her to be Miss full of herself terrier - at all! Go back to scared Penny and stick by me!


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Oh wow that is scary!! So glad she came back to you. She really doesn’t know she’s a small dog does she :Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Today I want to talk about reactivity and how I'm handling it with Penny.

We went to the local state park again today, a little later in the morning so there were people there. Penny doesn't do well with people. Particularly not people outside (as opposed to in the house or in a building). Basically she is scared. I know why she is scared - given her life before she came to us, but ultimately it doesn't matter why she is scared, just that this behavior is due to fear.

We live in a world full of people, so if Penny is going to have anything remotely resembling a normal life, she's going to have to learn to cope with people. She doesn't have to be a social butterfly, but she's going to have to learn what do do besides growling, barking, and/or running away.

The starting point for dealing with any fear based behavior is getting to where the dog feels safe. I can't stress the importance of this enough. I think a lot of people get caught up with trying to counter condition with treats and fun games and incompatible behaviors, but none of that will work if the dog doesn't feel safe.

Penny feels safe if I pick her up. I think height is reassuring to her (she does this at home too, gets up on the sofa), and me holding her also means she doesn't have any decisions to make - do I run? do I bark? Eliminating those decisions is helpful to her. So that is where we're at right now. People materialize, I pick her up. When the people go away I put her down and we go about our business. 
She doesn't take treats when she's scared (most dogs won't) so I'm not feeding her. Eventually that will be a good litmus test to see where she's at, but right now it's not even worth trying.

Today she had 4 opportunities to practice being picked up when people approach. We heard the first group before we saw them, I let her wait until she saw them, let them get closer, and then picked her up. I did wait a bit too long as she turned and ran (leashed) before I picked her up. Ideally I want to grab her before the run away happens. 
The second group we saw in plenty of time, and I let Penny watch them, and this time I did pick her up before they got in to her fear bubble. 
By the third group, she was starting to anticipate that I was going to handle it (by picking her up) and you could tell that alone eased some of her worry. Same thing with the last group, I could tell she knew to expect me to pick her up and knowing what to expect made a difference for her.

I don't anticipate having to pick her up forever. But I will continue to repeat this until she has built up a good solid history of me handling things for her and her alertness and worry about encountering a person becomes more ho-hum, mom's got me. That may be all it takes to 'cure' her of reactivity to people on walks, or I may have to work on some other things, but for now, picking her up works, she's not practicing reactive behavior, so it's all good.

But wait, you don't have a 9 pound dog you can easily tuck under your arm? 
Well, when Breez was a puppy, a 100 pound puppy (great dane, no I didn't mess up those zeros) and she was unsure of things, she would jump up on me for reassurance. 100 pounds of dog jumping up on you isn't good for either of us, so I learned to squat down so she could shove her head in my armpit and push her chest in to mine. That was what she needed to feel safe, and same as I anticipate with Penny, she didn't need me to do that forever, just until she had enough repetitions to know mom's got me, I don't have to worry.

Some dogs will need distance to feel safe, some dogs might need to chew on something like a toy to help them cope, some dogs might want to get behind you and shove their nose in to a hand touch to shield their vision. It's worth figuring out something that helps your dog feel safe and put it in your toolbox to use when needed.

Obligatory photos 

Feeling brave and moving on ahead









Mom will you come ON! 









Waterfall  









That darned harness slips to the side all the time, drives me nuts. I really need to get her a better one!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Thought I'd throw in another recall video, this was just mooching around near house, but it's good because she's bolder nearer the house and less inclined to worry about staying with me.

This is not technically a recall yet, at least not to where I would want it. But it's pretty darned good for 6 weeks in with a dog who defaulted to running from humans!
I'm just building up lots and lots of repetitions of responding to her name and getting rewarded for it. The head turn is what gets her a 'good girl' and she knows good girl is often followed by treats. 
She's so stinkin cute!!


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## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

I’m loving these updates and videos. It’s great watching Penny blossom but it’s also really helpful for me, as a wannabe dog owner who’s trying to learn about dog behaviour and training before I have a dog.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Well what a way to test out recall
> We just surprised a coyote in broad daylight walking down to the stream!
> He ran as soon as he saw me, Penny barked and chased for a second then her brain kicked in or the panic in my voice registered and she ran up to me. We sat there for a minute, pressed up against each other. Her hackles were up and she was low growling, my heart rate was up there!
> Then I picked her up and carried her back to the house. When we were closer to the house I put her down again and she stuck to me like glue. Yikes!


Oh my goodness so scary !


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> Today I want to talk about reactivity and how I'm handling it with Penny.
> 
> We went to the local state park again today, a little later in the morning so there were people there. Penny doesn't do well with people. Particularly not people outside (as opposed to in the house or in a building). Basically she is scared. I know why she is scared - given her life before she came to us, but ultimately it doesn't matter why she is scared, just that this behavior is due to fear.
> 
> ...


The bit in bold really speaks to me today. Working on Bodmin's reactivity to cars (which has got considerably worse since shielding - due to OH health - he was on an hr walk a day where we saw the odd car pull out of cul-de-sac and not a lot else), we try to keep enough distance that we can treat him and keep him calm. Today a couple of cars were way too close, we had the squeezy cheese and he managed not to react. This is an improvement, however, didn't feel like a victory as I could see Bodmin was scared and chomping away at the cheese with eyes bulging. OH was really pleased that he didn't bark/lunge, as was I, *but, *I think the experience did little to convince Bodmin that cars aren't scary beasts.

We have to long way to go and I really want to get this right (to the best of my ability ), so hearing your viewpoint is really useful. Will continue trying to keep cars at a distance as far as possible (without turning into hermits) and reassuring and treating him.

Look forward to hearing how Penny gets along, so good to hear about her positive experiences so far


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> This is an improvement, however, didn't feel like a victory as I could see Bodmin was scared and chomping away at the cheese with eyes bulging. OH was really pleased that he didn't bark/lunge, as was I, *but, *I think the experience did little to convince Bodmin that cars aren't scary beasts.


I would agree with you over your OH - some dogs won't even take food if they don't feel safe, some will, but as you noticed, they're just going through the motions and not really counter conditioning. This is indeed where people get stuck because they think I'm feeding him every time a car comes along and he's not getting any better! But if the dog is just eating and not really feeling okay about the whole thing, the CC isn't really working, or it will take for freaking ever to work if it does.

There are going to be situations where you just have to get out of there as best you can, but whenever possible, yep, keep the cars as far away as you can and let him feel safe.

I don't know if you listen to podcasts, but Hannah Branigan recently did one with Leslie McDevitt (of Control Unleashed fame) and all they talked about was reactivity and how to deal with it. The audio is bad on some parts but it's overall a great listen. 
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...ing-reactive-dog/id1205144996?i=1000491728443


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

LittleMow said:


> The bit in bold really speaks to me today. Working on Bodmin's reactivity to cars (which has got considerably worse since shielding - due to OH health - he was on an hr walk a day where we saw the odd car pull out of cul-de-sac and not a lot else), we try to keep enough distance that we can treat him and keep him calm. Today a couple of cars were way too close, we had the squeezy cheese and he managed not to react. This is an improvement, however, didn't feel like a victory as I could see Bodmin was scared and chomping away at the cheese with eyes bulging. OH was really pleased that he didn't bark/lunge, as was I, *but, *I think the experience did little to convince Bodmin that cars aren't scary beasts.
> 
> We have to long way to go and I really want to get this right (to the best of my ability ), so hearing your viewpoint is really useful. Will continue trying to keep cars at a distance as far as possible (without turning into hermits) and reassuring and treating him.
> 
> Look forward to hearing how Penny gets along, so good to hear about her positive experiences so far


I used Pets at Home car park but I guess any suitable one would do.
We just sat in our car and watched other cars, then progressed to being out of the car, then near a busier area and so on.

But you have to be careful not to get run over!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Yikes - a Coyote!

Thankfully, Jack and I only get to encounter the odd fox on our walks here in England 

Penny is coming in leaps and bounds - bet she can’t believe her luck


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> I would agree with you over your OH - some dogs won't even take food if they don't feel safe, some will, but as you noticed, they're just going through the motions and not really counter conditioning. This is indeed where people get stuck because they think I'm feeding him every time a car comes along and he's not getting any better! But if the dog is just eating and not really feeling okay about the whole thing, the CC isn't really working, or it will take for freaking ever to work if it does.
> 
> There are going to be situations where you just have to get out of there as best you can, but whenever possible, yep, keep the cars as far away as you can and let him feel safe.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this I will listen this evening. If he's very stressed he won't take food, but if we get cheese (only cheese is enough) to him quick enough he will sometimes 'suck' at the tube vigorously.



Linda Weasel said:


> I used Pets at Home car park but I guess any suitable one would do.
> We just sat in our car and watched other cars, then progressed to being out of the car, then near a busier area and so on.
> 
> But you have to be careful not to get run over!


Thanks for this. We don't have a car atm , so makes getting to locations tricky, however, you saying this has given me an idea. We can get round the back of an Aldi, via an unused field, and could safely watch from there


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Have I mentioned Penny likes to be up on elevated spots?  

































@Torin. now I'm thinking she doesn't look so much like Cad! I can't make up my mind!

Sometimes I see chihuahua in her head, other times I don't. It's definitely not a chihuahua body though. Can't decide what kind of body she has. I do like how she's put together though


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

Oooh, those photos are great from a telling what she looks like pov - thank you  Her head looks kinda small for her body? Whereas Cad's head looks huge for his body. Penny feels really cat-like in some of the photos too.

She's so brave on that thin tree trunk!


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

Whatever breeds are in there she is a bonny little dog. Her coat is a lovely rich colour too.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

I was thinking cat like too. I showed my OH Cadvan (on insta doing some cool back leg targeting) and he said is that Penny?! He's not a million miles out, but his not known for his observation skills  and tbf hasn't seen that much of them.

Both seem like very cool dogs who like to explore.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Torin. said:


> She's so brave on that thin tree trunk!


She gives me heart failure on that tree! She hits it at full speed and I keep waiting for her to overshoot and crash on the other side. She also turns around on it and I keep thinking she's going to fall. She does miss sometimes with her crazy leaping, the other day she totally overshot a rock she was jumping on to and landed on the corner of it on her chest and belly. Slowed her down a few seconds then she was back to balls to the walls crazy dog!



margy said:


> Whatever breeds are in there she is a bonny little dog. Her coat is a lovely rich colour too.


Aw thank you! I think her head is funny looking LOL  But she's pretty cute and nicely put together  
Her coat seems to have darkened up to my eye since we got her. I think it's just healthier, but yeah, I like the color too 



LittleMow said:


> Both seem like very cool dogs who like to explore.


I love how @Torin. puts it - dog first, small second. Penny is no handbag dog, that's for sure! She's a get dirty, run around, and yep, explore everything kind of dog. 
I do sometimes think about those little dogs like celebrities have who seem to live in carriers or always leashed. Penny would be miserable.


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## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

She looks like a Fossa in that 2nd photo!


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

urbantigers said:


> She looks like a Fossa in that 2nd photo!


haha I thought the same thing!!

She is definitely a little daredevil! It would be so interesting to know what breeds were in her. But she's lovely anyway so I guess it doesn't matter!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

urbantigers said:


> She looks like a Fossa in that 2nd photo!


I had to look up Fossa and wow you're right, she does! She's pretty long when she stretches her neck out! Ha ha! Little weasel suits her 



Teddy-dog said:


> It would be so interesting to know what breeds were in her. But she's lovely anyway so I guess it doesn't matter!


Yep, curiosity really. She's probably a huge mix of so many things over time, no telling really.

Today's "it's a good thing she's cute" video. Harassing Bates who finally gives in and attempts a little play  She's a PITA, but she is keeping him young LOL!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

That stream holds no fear for her now, does it?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> That stream holds no fear for her now, does it?


None  
Though I'm still working to generalize it to other streams, or even sections of this stream. She's comfortable in this part, if you move too far from this section, the water gets scarier and scarier. 
When we drive to the nearby state park, that water is suspicious too. She's getting better with every exposure though.

It's so interesting to see how their brains work!


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Ha! I love her!
These are my thoughts on the last few posts that you've put up...in no particular order!
Coyote - holy [email protected] how scary! But with some feisty terrier in there she is not going to just leg it in the other direction, they are good at standing up to predators (the puncture in the leg that our old PRT got when he picked a fight with a large badger is testament to that!)
Creating a safe space - I always tell my students this when they have anxious dogs. If you can make yourself their safety net then they will feel so much more secure in situations that worry them. Puzzle (collie) used to jump up when he was worried, and I didn't discourage this at all as it was his way of communicating. He'd then get nice calming strokes down his body and reassuring talks, and we'd then carry on our merry way. He now doesn't feel the need to do this as he's happy and secure, so I've put it on cue instead. Picking up is a great one for small dogs, you can also get dogs to put their feet on your knee or stretch up like Puzzle did, or you can even train something like a 'middle' where they sit or stand between your legs and are protected. 
Looks - I'd guess rat terrier cross now. We don't really have them over here but they are quite common in the US I think? Maybe with a bit of Chi mixed in there to give her those little leggies. 
I love her relationship with Bates. She's such a tease but she gets her way eventually and he gives in and plays :Hilarious


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

Oops, I'm only dipping into this thread now and then rather than reading all the long posts/ watching all the videos but



Sarah H said:


> Creating a safe space - I always tell my students this when they have anxious dogs. If you can make yourself their safety net then they will feel so much more secure in situations that worry them. Puzzle (collie) used to jump up when he was worried, and I didn't discourage this at all as it was his way of communicating. He'd then get nice calming strokes down his body and reassuring talks, and we'd then carry on our merry way. He now doesn't feel the need to do this as he's happy and secure, so I've put it on cue instead. Picking up is a great one for small dogs, you can also get dogs to put their feet on your knee or stretch up like Puzzle did, or you can even train something like a 'middle' where they sit or stand between your legs and are protected.


Yes yes yes yes yes

Cad did a Very Silly Thing Without Thinking at the secure field on Monday and then was Very Very Anxious as a result. So what did I do? First I got down and formed an 'n' shaped with the top of my body that he zoomed into for gentle words and strokes, which is something I trained for him as until very recently he's not been able to do peek/ middle. That didn't help though. So I sat down on the wet grass and gave him a cuddle. Then he was fine.









The irony here is that just before he did the Very Silly Thing Without Thinking he himself had refused to do a sit stay on grass as it was too wet for his bum


I wouldn't say either of these things are *ideal* because I do still have to get down low for them. Which puts me right there for if a bolshy dog is also there. But it's a compromise we've agreed on together. And it's waaaaay better than the running away with the tail between his legs that he used to do when new and worried.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> Puzzle (collie) used to jump up when he was worried, and I didn't discourage this at all as it was his way of communicating.


I was the same with Breez (great dane bitch), she would jump on me when she felt conflicted or worried. I didn't discourage it, instead I taught her to a) warn me, and b) how 'bout I come down to your level so you don't have to jump on me. It was a short lived phase, but it was important for her to learn that I was her safe space.



Sarah H said:


> you can even train something like a 'middle' where they sit or stand between your legs and are protected.


I'm actually teaching Penny this right now. Get between my legs, she seems to like being there anyway, so might as well put it on cue.



Sarah H said:


> I'd guess rat terrier cross now.


Yeah, I'm thinking more terrier than chi now too. Rat terriers and feists are pretty similar, I'd say either or both 



Torin. said:


> The irony here is that just before he did the Very Silly Thing Without Thinking he himself had refused to do a sit stay on grass as it was too wet for his bum


LOL the things we do for our dogs!



Torin. said:


> Which puts me right there for if a bolshy dog is also there.


That's my worry too which is why I'm happy to pick Penny up as long as she's happy with that arrangement too - which she seems to be. She'll let me know too if she wants to get down, which usually only happens when she wants to play or chase the cats


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> That's my worry too which is why I'm happy to pick Penny up as long as she's happy with that arrangement too - which she seems to be. She'll let me know too if she wants to get down, which usually only happens when she wants to play or chase the cats


Yeah, if Penny's happy with that it's a definite win. Cad doesn't enjoy being restrained when he's scared - although once he's calmed down enough with me being there we can do later airlifts.

I will say though, that other owners are much quicker to react if they see their out of control dog running towards a human on the floor than they are if their dog is running towards a fearful dog. The whole "he's only friendly" "just wants to play" etc. crap doesn't fly so well when it's a human....!

So far the worst I've received from another dog (dogfriend, not strangedog) in that situation is a licked ear.


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> This one is same things but while I get her riled up. I'm a big believer in dogs being able to respond to cues even when excited and amped up. So I train for it. Added bonus is you get really fun, energetic behaviors this way too. Of course sometimes they get OTT and you can't do anything for a few moments as you'll see for one collar grab, but she eventually gets there. It's all good, part of the process.
> Same thing, hand target and collar grabs. I also work on her following my hand, and being okay with my hand 'getting' her, so she knows it's play and not to worry about that.
> 
> 
> ...


Omg I just watched that 2nd video! So relatable I love her!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Torin. said:


> Omg I just watched that 2nd video! So relatable I love her!


She's a total maniac sometimes :Hilarious I just put a video on instagram of her harassing Bates again. She's such a terrierist!

But she can be a good girl too sometimes. I've started teaching her to come 'place' between my legs. There's a lot of bending down and squatting with this dog! 
I'm messing around with a lot of cues so far. None are at the point where I can name them. Well, hand target is - that will become touch. I should probably start the cue transfer on that one soon. And sit is almost ready too. But everything else is just messing around, getting her used to the idea of 'working' which so far she seems to enjoy. I love that she's choosing to work around all the fun smells and distractions of the stream. Who knew this little street urchin would turn in to such a fun dog to work with?


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

What a sweet girl bless her. I just watch your instagram film Bates is so funny. My friend has a black lab who is 9 he was the same with Loki as a puppy. Such a good role model.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I taught one of my spaniels to run at me and jump up into my arms (she more ran up my front and I caught her rather than her doing a huge jump).

Not because she was reactive but because it was a recall game that she loved, and also once in this position she wouldn’t let anybody touch me; it came in useful a couple of times.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> What a sweet girl bless her. I just watch your instagram film Bates is so funny. My friend has a black lab who is 9 he was the same with Loki as a puppy. Such a good role model.


It occurred to me that with all the videos I'm showing of Penny being a complete and utter PITA to Bates, I should clarify a few things 

1) Bates does tell her off. I haven't caught a good on on camera yet, but I promise, he does tell her to knock it off sometimes and she appropriately grovels.

2) Bates and Penny live together and have a well established relationship. Bates has a stable temperament and is appropriate in his corrections. 
This would be wholly inappropriate behavior if Penny were to do this to random dogs she encounters in other contexts.
For any lurkers, don't let your puppy/young dog do this to another dog. It's rude and obnoxious and pups need to learn decorum, and it's not the job of other dogs to teach that to them.

3) I too tell Penny to knock it off so Bates doesn't always have to. I've also used this as an opportunity to practice recall. Good to practice recalling away from play, a lot of dogs really struggle with that - see videos below


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> Her coat seems to have darkened up to my eye since we got her. I think it's just healthier, but yeah, I like the color too


She'll likely be growing in her Winter coat.

Rudi is red and her Winter coat is deeper in colour than in Summer.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> She'll likely be growing in her Winter coat.
> 
> Rudi is red and her Winter coat is deeper in colour than in Summer.


I hadn't thought about that, you may be right. Though her coat is still so sparse, it has barely started growing back where she was shaved for her spay, and the rims of her eyes and the very front of her muzzle are bald. We jokingly say she's got mange - she doesn't, Bates grows hair the same way, but he's so grey it's less noticeable these days.

Apparently randomly bred dogs around here don't grow much hair. Which makes sense given how hot it is here. Though right now both of them wish they grew more as they huddle under the blanket 

Bates had to pee at 5:30 this morning, I let them both out and thought I'd try to sleep a few more minutes so put Penny in the bed with me. She was so comfy snuggled up in the warm bed with me that she let me sleep until 7:00!!


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

She looks such a happy little girl now, You are working wonders with her, lucky little dog


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Bisbow said:


> She looks such a happy little girl now, You are working wonders with her, lucky little dog


Thank you  
She really is a happy little girl and brings us so many smiles. A lot of that is decent genetics too though. I'm starting to develop my own theory about dogs who survive on their own, but my sample size is only 2 so more research is needed


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

OMG this dog!!!

Can you see her? 









She blends in perfectly. Fortunately she moves a lot, and if you know to look above ground, you can find her


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Found her! I thought it's Penny look up  I did have to zoom in though! She's very well camouflaged.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Welcome to the mad world of terriers!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I wonder if that’s how she survived so long in the wild, by climbing high and freezing, she just vanishes doesn’t she


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> Found her! I thought it's Penny look up  I did have to zoom in though! She's very well camouflaged.


I lose her all the time! And she's small so sometimes she's right behind me and I don't even know it 


Kaily said:


> Welcome to the mad world of terriers!


Friggin' maniac!! :Hilarious Her sense of self preservation is questionable at best! Chasing coyotes, no fear of heights, but spooks at a turtle 


Siskin said:


> I wonder if that's how she survived so long in the wild, by climbing high and freezing, she just vanishes doesn't she


Oh I wonder too! 
But interestingly, when I first started walking her around the woods, I had to encourage her to get up on things. But once she figured out she *could* get up on things it was like a flood gate opened and she started jumping up on everything just for the fun of it


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> OMG this dog!!!
> 
> Can you see her?
> View attachment 451175
> ...


Found her.

Are you sure she isn't part weasel? 



LittleMow said:


> Found her! I thought it's Penny look up  I did have to zoom in though! She's very well camouflaged.


Same here.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I am absolutely loving watching her blossom. She really is living her best life now.

It's sad that whoever chained her to something never got to see her proper potential; not sad so much for them but sad for any other animals they ever have. Did that come out making any sense at all?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Are you sure she isn't part weasel?


No I'm not! :Hilarious:Hilarious


JoanneF said:


> It's sad that whoever chained her to something never got to see her proper potential; not sad so much for them but sad for any other animals they ever have. Did that come out making any sense at all?


It does make sense to me. 
It's something I think about a lot. It's a bit of a paradox really, you never know how cool a dog is until you treat him/her like a cool dog, but if you don't think you have a cool dog, you don't treat them like it. LOL now I'm wondering if *I* make sense!

A coworker who I'm friends with on FB has a small dog like Penny. Cute dog, he doesn't do anything but live in their house and yard. They have one of those shock collar boundary fences. Where the dog gets a warning when they get close to the boundary, then an actual shock if they try to cross it. 
It just makes me sad when she posts photos on FB of her dog sitting in the yard, doing nothing, wearing that giant box on his neck. 
I saw her at work and she said something about her dog not being the kind who comes when called like Penny. I laughed and pointed out I had to teach that to Penny, she didn't come that way. She said oh yeah, she tried teaching her dog too, it just didn't work with him. I just had to grit my teeth and change the subject.

Maybe I'm just a grump because Penny is making me sleep deprived LOL. But even on here some threads, I just don't have the patience for it. I used to get all fired up, get on my soapbox and preach about dog-friendly training, making it fun, and enjoying having a naughty dog 'cause at least you know they're interested in the world and that's really easy to motivate. But now it's just like *meh* and I don't even bother responding


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> No I'm not! :Hilarious:Hilarious
> 
> It does make sense to me.
> It's something I think about a lot. It's a bit of a paradox really, you never know how cool a dog is until you treat him/her like a cool dog, but if you don't think you have a cool dog, you don't treat them like it. LOL now I'm wondering if *I* make sense!
> ...


Sounds like intellectual burn-out.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

More recall tips 

Penny is a busy, busy dog. She has smells to sniff, trees to explore, leaves to chase, there is a lot to get done on a walk. Coming to me, even if I have cheese is not always high on her to-do list.

You know how people are always saying that the best treat in the world can't compete with chasing or sniffing? Yeah, don't try and compete. If sniffing and exploring is higher value than treats (which it generally will be), insert yourself as part of the sniffing and exploring.

But here's the thing, you don't wait until the dog is really focused on sniffing and exploring and then find a good sniff spot and try to encourage him over. You build up a habit of pointing out good sniff spots when the dog isn't in the middle of their own thing. 
Every walk, two or three times per walk. Find a snake skin? Show the dog. Find some rabbit fur fluff? Show the dog. See a critter hole? Yep, show the terrier  
Don't use it as a recall to catch or leash the dog. You can even do it on leash. You're just building value for you and paying attention to you. This pays off in the long run.

Here I'm pointing out some deer and racoon tracks. Not massively interesting, but not a dud either. And note in the middle Penny looks at me - for a busy dog to take time to check in right in the middle of being busy is great stuff.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CF-lodaleqS/


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Place board training is going well :Hilarious:Hilarious
Bates is either a helpful distraction or demonstration, I haven't decided yet


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Terriers climb trees .........


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rafa said:


> Terriers climb trees .........
> 
> View attachment 451595


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Penny has been awake since 4:30 :Hungover
To be fair, normal weekday wake-up is 4:40, and when I got up to pee at 4, I remembered a load of wash that needed to go in the dryer and put that in. Penny stayed quiet in her crate but I could hear her moving around. At 4:30 I let her out to wee then put her in the bed with me, she settled, but then daughter had to leave for work at 5:30 so was up at 5:00. At which point I gave up and got up. 

She's been wild woman for the last hour, I've had coffee, fed the cats, got Bates up and out to pee (he was not impressed), zombie walked Penny for another wee and poop, I'm now wide awake and sure enough damn dog is sound asleep. It's a good thing she's cute! 

I am getting braver about letting her out in the dark without a leash. She doesn't seem to want to go any further than the light of the porch which is good. But also means I have to go out with her which defeats the purpose of not having to leash her to go out LOL.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Lovely to hear how well Penny is settling in. She looks like she has a lot of energy. Possible running partner? 

It’s funny you say about her coming to you when scary things happen. We were out today and Loki started limping. He came dashing over to me in a panic I looked at his pad and he had stood on a wasp. I got it off checked him for stingers and we had a cuddle.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Possible running partner?


I'm trying to figure that one out right now actually. I think she'd be good for a mile with me, bring her home, then I knock out the rest without her. Even at my slow speed she would probably have to canter to keep up, and she's really built for trotting, so I'll have to see how it goes. She is a little speed and energy demon though!

Don't you love it when they come to you for help? Poor Loki is his paw okay now?


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I'm trying to figure that one out right now actually. I think she'd be good for a mile with me, bring her home, then I knock out the rest without her. Even at my slow speed she would probably have to canter to keep up, and she's really built for trotting, so I'll have to see how it goes. She is a little speed and energy demon though!
> 
> Don't you love it when they come to you for help? Poor Loki is his paw okay now?


He's fine unfortunately Loki is a drama queen when he gets hurt and gets very sad. We came home had a piriton and he was squeaking his crocodile five minutes later.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> He's fine unfortunately Loki is a drama queen when he gets hurt and gets very sad. We came home had a piriton and he was squeaking his crocodile five minutes later.


Nothing some cuddles and an antihistamine can't cure


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I called Penny off a chase yesterday!!!!   

It was a low value chase - chasing the cat, and Penny wasn't very far from me, but it was still mid run and she came back. Woo hoo! It wasn't a whiplash turn, but it was a lovely immediate arc back to me and I was thrilled with it. I can definitely build on that!

In other good dog news, I work from home today and Penny woke up at 5, I let her and Bates out to wee, brought them both back in, put Penny in the bed with me, and she let me sleep until 7:30 

She'll probably eat my shoes or wee on the rug later


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I called Penny off a chase yesterday!!!!
> 
> It was a low value chase - chasing the cat, and Penny wasn't very far from me, but it was still mid run and she came back. Woo hoo! It wasn't a whiplash turn, but it was a lovely immediate arc back to me and I was thrilled with it. I can definitely build on that!
> 
> ...


I can see you doing a jig round the house, clicking your heels together with joy


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Well done Penny !


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Well done Penny!


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Niiice! Well done Penny-plops!


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Great Penny update, she's coming along lovely, hope the rug made it through the day 

I'm getting lot more focus from Bodmin on walks, been pointing out good sniffs to him - hardest bit is spotting them before he does. 

Thanks so much for the link to DFTTB reactivity podcast, it was interesting, reassuring and amusing. Been working on the 1,2,3 motion pattern and practising a safe station, all just in the house atm, next will progress to the garden. I can see it being very useful for us. I've also discovered Chirag Patel, he seems to really know his stuff.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> Thanks so much for the link to DFTTB reactivity podcast, it was interesting, reassuring and amusing. Been working on the 1,2,3 motion pattern and practising a safe station, all just in the house atm, next will progress to the garden. I can see it being very useful for us. I've also discovered Chirag Patel, he seems to really know his stuff.


Oh I'm so glad it was helpful! 
I do love DFTT and Hannah Brannigan  And yes, Chirag Patel is awesome. He has some great videos on youtube also - check out domesticated manners.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

I've listened to it 4 times to take it all in and made notes! Working my way through the other episodes, some of it's a bit over my head  but really enjoying them. Hannah's great, very funny and down to earth. Will definitely be checking Chirag on YouTube, thanks


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Nothing to see here, just a little 9 pound mutt thing doing water retrieves


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

She is so engaged and focused on you. What a fabulous girl she is becoming.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

She’s such a lovely, happy little dog.
It’s lovely to see her blossom & I love seeing her with Bates x


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> She is so engaged and focused on you. What a fabulous girl she is becoming.


I'm really laughing at myself watching her turn in to such a different dog than I expected. 
She was everything I did not want in another dog. I didn't want a tiny dog, I didn't want a girl, I didn't want another project dog, and if it was a project dog, I definitely didn't want to deal with fear related stuff. 
And here I am with everything I said I didn't want and couldn't be happier 



ebonycat said:


> She's such a lovely, happy little dog.
> It's lovely to see her blossom & I love seeing her with Bates x


She has really been good for Bates in so many ways. I didn't realize for example that he misses training. Now when I train Penny, he joins in and does what he can. He loves it, and it helps Penny work with a small distraction. 
He's moving about much more too, she's small enough that I don't worry about her hurting him, but she annoys him enough to keep him more active


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Penny had a big day today, Drove up to see my friend who has a silken and a terrier mutt. Checking out how Penny does with other dogs, and giving her a taste of 'city' life. My friend lives in a very outdoor friendly town, and there were tons of sights, sounds, and all sorts of stuff for Penny to experience.

First, dog intros - totally uncomplicated easy stuff. All 3 bitches have great dog skills, they all sussed each other out in about 2 minutes then went about their lives. 
After intros we walked to a secure field so see if they would play, lots of running around but no play - yet. I think they will eventually. Considering how Penny was doing I felt okay going to another off-leash area, this one not secured. Penny was responding to me beautifully and sticking with the other two dogs who have good recall also. So off leash in a new area went beautifully (photos below).

Then we went downtown. That was a leashed walk on the sidewalk, cars, motorcycles, bikes, other runners, walkers, dog walkers. It was a lot for little Miss Penny. Her poor brain was doing a lot of processing, but she did great. Periodically I would pick her up just to give her a break and reduce the number of decisions she had to make, and just let her process everything.

She's so freaking resilient, I love it! A herd of motorcyclists went by that even startled me (I'm a country bumpkin), she did not like it, but she recovered right away, and once she gets over it, she's over it.

We sat at a public table for coffee and crepes (how posh of us), and Penny made a friend with a lovely young boy (10 or so) who asked nicely if he could pet her, followed my directions, offered her a treat I gave him to give her, and she took it!! Then Penny made friends with the boy's mom, and all this after a good 20 minute walk with the aforementioned bikes, cars, walkers, joggers etc. 
Did I mention how resilient she is?

Walked back and Penny and terrier mutt almost played, though they were both pretty tired. 
All in all a massive success, and we'll be doing a lot more outings like this so Penny can become a go anywhere do anything dog


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

You've certainly struck lucky there, she's a lovely little dog. A pleasure to own.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

margy said:


> You've certainly struck lucky there, she's a lovely little dog. A pleasure to own.


And a pleasure to follow.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

More walkies photos. I like the shadow one 

Oh, @Torin. that's the 3 in 1 harness, I like it so far!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Oh Penny you’re such a good, brave girl 
I love reading about Penny, how she’s doing, what’s she doing, her friendship with Bates ( LOVE seeing pictures of her & Bates together ), how her training is going. She’s so happy all of the time.
Gone from an abandoned, scared, lonely little dog to one very happy, blossoming, little dog who has a lovely home, a big softy of a dog to look up too & a wonderful owner who looks out for her, takes care of her, truly loves her.
She certainly fell on her paws when you saved her.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

She's such a little spunky thing, I've no doubt she'll be the perfect companion.


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## Rosie64 (Feb 27, 2014)

I love reading about Penny & Bates and seeing all the photo's and videos , she is a lovely little dog and certainly struck lucky when you found and rescued her


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ebonycat said:


> Oh Penny you're such a good, brave girl
> I love reading about Penny, how she's doing, what's she doing, her friendship with Bates ( LOVE seeing pictures of her & Bates together ), how her training is going. She's so happy all of the time.
> Gone from an abandoned, scared, lonely little dog to one very happy, blossoming, little dog who has a lovely home, a big softy of a dog to look up too & a wonderful owner who looks out for her, takes care of her, truly loves her.
> She certainly fell on her paws when you saved her.


That's really kind of you to say ebonycat  
I know it sounds so cliché, but I really do feel like the lucky one in this deal. Who knew a funny looking little side-of-the-road-special would turn out to be such a cool dog? 


Sarah H said:


> She's such a little spunky thing, I've no doubt she'll be the perfect companion.


My goal is for her to be okay no matter where I take her, and I feel like we're well on the way there. My own personal theory that it's easier to un-do the damage of no socialization than bad socialization is so far holding true 



Rosie64 said:


> I love reading about Penny & Bates and seeing all the photo's and videos , she is a lovely little dog and certainly struck lucky when you found and rescued her





margy said:


> You've certainly struck lucky there, she's a lovely little dog. A pleasure to own.





LinznMilly said:


> And a pleasure to follow.


Thank you Rosie, Margy and Linz  I'm really glad she's bringing others joy too.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> That's really kind of you to say ebonycat
> I know it sounds so cliché, but I really do feel like the lucky one in this deal. Who knew a funny looking little side-of-the-road-special would turn out to be such a cool dog?
> 
> My goal is for her to be okay no matter where I take her, and I feel like we're well on the way there. My own personal theory that it's easier to un-do the damage of no socialization than bad socialization is so far holding true
> ...


You, Penny and Bates are just the tonic I need at the moment.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> You, Penny and Bates are just the tonic I need at the moment.


Aw Linz! I'm blushing! 
But really good to hear, I'm happy to share the goofballs on here, especially knowing they're bringing folks smiles 

Here's some sweetness for you  

__
http://instagr.am/p/CGfybSLlyLn/


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

This was great to read. How cool, 10 out 10 for Penny there, well done smol dog (though do think we need to factor in handler skills in here ).

Does seem that resilience is a factor, she appears to have great bounce-back-ability. Wondering if this is something they learn/can be taught or something they inherit, or a combo of both? Hmmm


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

"O2.0 said:


> My goal is for her to be okay no matter where I take her, and I feel like we're well on the way there. My own personal theory that it's easier to un-do the damage of no socialization than bad socialization is so far holding true .


I 100% think this. Puzzle came to me as a really worried dog who had never lived inside and found normal household noises scary (luckily he was very happy to go into his crate if he was worried), people were a bit worrying for him too (but luckily, like Penny, he was super dog savvy) and he clearly hadn't been taught anything. He can now pretty much go anywhere and be perfectly happy, and bounces back fine if there are any slight frights. The only thing I've found that he properly didn't like were some Xmas animatronics we went passed when we did our Xmas light outing last year! To be fair, they were pretty scary!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> Does seem that resilience is a factor, she appears to have great bounce-back-ability. Wondering if this is something they learn/can be taught or something they inherit, or a combo of both? Hmmm


I could nerd out on this sort of discussion all day 

My personal thoughts - happy to be disagreed with and further the discussion, is that it's a good combination of both. 
Genetics matter. No matter how much the "it's in how you raise them" folks protest, genetics do matter, and there's a reason why cowboys don't herd cattle with bloodhounds while riding clydesdales.

I think some dogs genetically just have more spoons (if you subscribe to the spoon theory) or an emptier bathtub (if you go with the bathtub theory). They're just starting with more reserves. 
However I think you can also add to those reserves with training/management and your relationship with the dog. If the dog views you as their safe space, you can be the place where they regain their reserves, even if the stress is still happening. 
Great example:
@StormyThai recently posted a video of how she used a trained behavior (going between her legs) to help a dog cope with the stress of encountering another dog. If we break that down, the behavior is trained in a fun way with R+ which creates a conditioned emotional response in addition to the actual behavior. IOW the dog learns to do the behavior but also gets conditioned that this behavior feels good, there's good emotions attached to doing this behavior. Now the stress happens, but instead of losing spoons, the dog gets to do something that makes her feel good, and helps her feel safe. Not only might she not lose any spoons over encountering the dog, she might gain some too because the behavior has that conditioned emotional response as well. 
From a management perspective, the dog is safely 'enclosed' in the handler's legs, buffered from the other dog, combined with treat delivery in front partially blocking the view, and even more safe feelings.

Contrast that with a dog who freaks out at other dogs and the handler responds with "no! knock it off! Stopit" and yaking back on the leash. Spoons lost everywhere! 
But even a handler who just doesn't know what to do and is nervously telling the dog "it's okay, it's okay" but never really manages the situation, or protects the dog from the oncoming dog, that dog is going to lose lots of spoons too.

And I may make myself unpopular by saying this, but I think owner temperament matters too. Nervous people tend to have nervous dogs, chill people tend to have chill dogs. Which makes perfect sense if you think about it. Our dogs are so in-tune to us, of course they're going to pick up on our emotional states, and often mirror them. Not to mention that it's hard to teach a dog to relax in the face of stressors if that's something you struggle with yourself.

As for Penny, I think I lucked out genetically, but I also think as below, that she was simply not socialized instead of poorly socialized makes my job as far as training so much easier. I don't have to un-do any poor socialization, I just have to present her with things, give her the support to cope with them, give her a minute to realize it's okay, and move on.



Sarah H said:


> I 100% think this. Puzzle came to me as a really worried dog who had never lived inside and found normal household noises scary (luckily he was very happy to go into his crate if he was worried), people were a bit worrying for him too (but luckily, like Penny, he was super dog savvy) and he clearly hadn't been taught anything. He can now pretty much go anywhere and be perfectly happy, and bounces back fine if there are any slight frights. The only thing I've found that he properly didn't like were some Xmas animatronics we went passed when we did our Xmas light outing last year! To be fair, they were pretty scary!


Oh I'm so hoping Penny will be like that. And I'm with you on the decorations! Those worry me too!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> @StormyThai recently posted a video of how she used a trained behavior (going between her legs) to help a dog cope with the stress of encountering another dog. If we break that down, the behavior is trained in a fun way with R+ which creates a conditioned emotional response in addition to the actual behavior. IOW the dog learns to do the behavior but also gets conditioned that this behavior feels good, there's good emotions attached to doing this behavior. Now the stress happens, but instead of losing spoons, the dog gets to do something that makes her feel good, and helps her feel safe. Not only might she not lose any spoons over encountering the dog, she might gain some too because the behavior has that conditioned emotional response as well.
> From a management perspective, the dog is safely 'enclosed' in the handler's legs, buffered from the other dog, combined with treat delivery in front partially blocking the view, and even more safe feelings.


I'm happy to post that video here if your ok with that @O2.0 and if others want to see it


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> I'm happy to post that video here if your ok with that @O2.0 and if others want to see it


Oh yes please! It illustrates beautifully how you can train and manage fear-based behaviors.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)




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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Great video @StormyThai. Just starting Bodmin on a middle 

Bodmin definitely came a few spoons short of a picnic. Completely agree about handler temperate and attitude (in my limited experience that is). I'm fairly chilled out, though when Bodmin's reactivity first surfaced I wasn't a picture of serenity . So me panicking while Bodmin lunged and growled at cars certainly didn't help in the spoon department. I'd feel nervous as a car approached (would he/ wouldn't he?), he'd feel nervous, I'd see that ... and round we went. Now me and oh have a plan in place, that we rehearse, Bodmin knows what to expect; we walk him when it's quiet, try (as much as is possible and safe with a big dog lunging towards cars) not to pull on his lead, I go down to his level, sprinkle chicken for him to find, leading him away from the car (sometimes I sing - to keep myself calm ).

I feel like me feeling more confident and having built a trust with him is certainly a factor in his behaviour. We haven't had a full on car lunge for weeks, he used to get nervous on the approach to the main road, he now has his head down or is busy scanning for cats. So, by the time we get to the road he still has all his spoons. He's still a bit anxious as we cross the road but the difference is marked, when we get to the Heath he's straight into sniff mode, rather than focusing back on the road.

Re genetics I don't know of Bodmin's heritage but I'd imagine his breeding was neither well thought through or, what you'd call ethical. My mum has two spaniels, same upbringing (from 8wks onwards), same age, the male Clyde arrived a confident, outgoing pup and has remained so. We visited him a few times before my mum brought him home, his parents were friendly and confident as were his litter mates. When my mum got him home he was into everything, running round the garden not a care in the world. When we picked up Bonnie the mum seemed nervous and Bonnie was terrified as we took her out into the light, on the way home she was shaking - I felt so bad I wanted to take her back to her mum. She took longer to settle in and just wanted to hide at first. She's a lovely sweet dog now, but is nervous of other dogs and doesn't handle novel situations with same gusto as Clyde. So I think Clyde definitely came with a bigger reserves.

Just spotted an episode of DFTT about resilience in dogs, going on my play next list. Really interesting topic, I'm certainly hoping to build up Bodmin's resilience. 
Penny's an inspiration


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

LittleMow said:


> Great video @StormyThai. Just starting Bodmin on a middle


Thanks 
It's taken a while to get her to this stage, and there are still moments when things become too much for her. If you notice with the second dog I ask for middle much sooner because the dog is pulling and making that wheezing sound (one of her triggers), she also takes a few seconds longer to disengage and gets a bit snappy when taking the first treat and stiffens up...I acknowledge this by sprinkling the next treat on the grass in front of her getting her to sniff (rewarding behaviour) and bending my knee forward to give her more of a "barrier" while keeping things upbeat meant that although she was far from relaxed with that dog passing, she didn't lose any spoons and was able to carry on as usual.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Just a quick question, how do you know when a behaviour is ready to 'take on the road'? I know this probably isn't an exact science, but are there any indicators that you look for?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

LittleMow said:


> Just a quick question, how do you know when a behaviour is ready to 'take on the road'? I know this probably isn't an exact science, but are there any indicators that you look for?


When it's reliable.
With Millie, I first taught the behaviour at home. In the house and then in the garden.
Then we would practice out on a walk without any distractions. Once this was reliable and on cue I started to add distractions at a distance, if she wasn't able to follow her cue then we were too close so we upped the distance until she could.
Over time, reduce the distance making sure you don't try to move too fast.

If I know that Millie is unable to follow her middle cue (if she has trigger stacked or we are too close) then I don't ask for it.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Nudge nudge. I need more Penny fix ...


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

JoanneF said:


> Nudge nudge. I need more Penny fix ...


^^THIS^^
I want to see Bates too, just cos he's a gorgeous old boy


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Nudge nudge. I need more Penny fix ...


 

Penny has had a very busy two days. Thursday she came with me to the feed store to get dog food, and on the way home we stopped at my trainer friend's place and let her explore the training building while friend and I caught up. I ended up staying a whole hour and a half and the whole time Penny had a lot to explore and figure out and a new scary human to figure out.

For sure my biggest challenge with her is going to be teaching her that every new human is not scary.

Speaking of scary humans, she had a lot of teenager interactions yesterday with homecoming festivities going on, so between Thursday's visit, and Friday's teens, today she is happy to have a lazy day.

Granted Penny's idea of a lazy day still includes 5am wake up, a long walk in the woods, and chasing the cats, but when inside she has been snoozing and only tried to eat my slippers once today 

Find the doggo  









Oh I was also informed last night by an acquaintance that you can't train a rescue dog to come, only dogs you get as puppies ever really learn to come when called. 
You would have been very proud of me, I didn't go off on a long-winded explanation/reply, I just said "mmm" and asked how his dog is doing :Angelic

I will endeavor to get some good Bates and Penny shots tomorrow and of course share them on here


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

That was a tricky one, think I've found her, but will need further inspection on laptop. Couple of false leads, what I thought may be a Penny with bum in the air that turned out to be pile of leaves


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Penny has had a very busy two days. Thursday she came with me to the feed store to get dog food, and on the way home we stopped at my trainer friend's place and let her explore the training building while friend and I caught up. I ended up staying a whole hour and a half and the whole time Penny had a lot to explore and figure out and a new scary human to figure out.
> 
> For sure my biggest challenge with her is going to be teaching her that every new human is not scary.
> 
> ...


Well done Penny.
Has she seen any kids in hallowe'en costumes yet?? I know it's big over there. I've been in Texas around hallowe'en time & it was kind of crazy (good crazy). Maybe Covid will stop the kids going out??


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Oh ok I know I have pretty bad eyes but I’ve stared & studied the picture. I can’t see Penny. I at first looked at all the trees to see if she could climb any of them  but no branches climbable, so no Penny up them


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> When it's reliable.
> With Millie, I first taught the behaviour at home. In the house and then in the garden.
> Then we would practice out on a walk without any distractions. Once this was reliable and on cue I started to add distractions at a distance, if she wasn't able to follow her cue then we were too close so we upped the distance until she could.
> Over time, reduce the distance making sure you don't try to move too fast.
> ...


So lovely to see you working with her.

Wish I saw other dogs with issues being given such tools to cope by their owners/handlers rather than witnessing their recurrent meltdowns


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

LittleMow said:


> That was a tricky one, think I've found her, but will need further inspection on laptop. Couple of false leads, what I thought may be a Penny with bum in the air that turned out to be pile of leaves


You should see @tabelmabel 's woodland butt Murphles. @Boxer123 will testify.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ebonycat said:


> Well done Penny.
> Has she seen any kids in hallowe'en costumes yet?? I know it's big over there. I've been in Texas around hallowe'en time & it was kind of crazy (good crazy). Maybe Covid will stop the kids going out??


Nope, no costumes yet, I think trick-o-treating is cancelled, but I don't keep up with that as much anymore now that my own kids have aged out.

She did see one of those flappy blow-up yard decorations last weekend at my other friend's house and that required a spook and then further inspection.

That's generally her M.O. with scary things, spook, then go check it out. I can totally live with that.

Humans are a different category. She would rather ignore people completely, but she's tiny and cute, and has yoda ears and everyone wants to get in her face and 'say hi'. Then as they retreat, she sometimes barks. Scary thing moves away that's when she gets brave enough to bark and say "yeah, and stay away!"

It's very typical unsocialized dog behavior, nothing unusual, it just takes time to work on.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> That was a tricky one, think I've found her, but will need further inspection on laptop. Couple of false leads, what I thought may be a Penny with bum in the air that turned out to be pile of leaves





ebonycat said:


> Oh ok I know I have pretty bad eyes but I've stared & studied the picture. I can't see Penny. I at first looked at all the trees to see if she could climb any of them  but no branches climbable, so no Penny up them


She's not in the trees this time  
Let me know when you're ready for hints and/or reveal. I think it's pretty obvious once you see her, but I'm well practiced in finding the brown dog in the autumn colors LOL. It's when she's right next to me that I lose her


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Ok I've definitely found her now! 

My first guess was a Penny hoax (or there's a small fox in your woods?), my excuse is that I'm on my phone.

I'm not giving anything away though


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> It's when she's right next to me that I lose her


Yes! My catch phrase is "if you don't know where T is, look down"


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Found her!

Well done for holding your tongue about recall, sometimes it's just not worth all the energy to argue!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Yes! My catch phrase is "if you don't know where T is, look down"


IKR?! 

She has a way of getting right behind my heels where I just can't see her unless I stop moving and deliberately look down and behind me. The number of times I've stopped and called for her and both she and Bates are looking at me like I'm the dumbest human ever. :Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> Found her!
> 
> Well done for holding your tongue about recall, sometimes it's just not worth all the energy to argue!


Definitely not when it comes to a know-it-all APO  He wasn't asking for help or opinions, then I'll share. He was just spouting his 'knowledge' and who am I to tell him he's wrong?


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

I’m on my phone as well & I can’t find her :Arghh


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

I had to zoom right in and had a think about what Penny likes to do ompus


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> My first guess was a Penny hoax (or there's a small fox in your woods?),


I did mistake her for a fox once before I caught her, she crossed the road a good ways ahead of me and with the sun glare all I saw was a small brown canid disappearing in to the brush. I remember thinking it was an odd time for a fox to be out.

Do you want a reveal @ebonycat ?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I think I’ve found her ??


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> I did mistake her for a fox once before I caught her, she crossed the road a good ways ahead of me and with the sun glare all I saw was a small brown canid disappearing in to the brush. I remember thinking it was an odd time for a fox to be out.
> 
> Do you want a reveal @ebonycat ?


 Yes please.... then as soon as you point her out to me I'm going to kick myself


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Here you go @ebonycat


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Here you go @ebonycat
> 
> View attachment 452751


Now I can see her


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Yay! I was right


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well I broke my promise and no good photos of the dogs this weekend. It was a grey, misty day all day Sunday and I was busy with boring house chores most of the day, little outside time. 

But let me tell you a story of a little dog who decided her crate was scary. 
*Skip to the TLDR at the end for the much abridged version  

Penny has a great dane sized crate in the living room and a lab sized crate in the bedroom. She loves both of them and often goes in both crates to nap on her own. 
At some point early in the morning Penny decided her big crate was possessed. I think I know what happened, she probably hit the door on one of her passess up and down the hallway (the door opens sort of in to the hallway), and the door hit the end of it's opening capacity and bounced back at her. This was clearly a personal attack because the next thing OH knew, Penny got behind him and was barking at the evil crate door. OH just shook his head at the addled dog and went about his business. 

Shortly after the barking incident, it was breakfast time and I put Penny's bowl in the crate, she jumped in, took one bite of food, then sat back looking at her bowl all sorts of worried. Very unusual for Penny. Penny doesn't turn down food. I stood out of sight watching her and she was very reluctant to approach her bowl, but clearly wanted to eat. So I put her bowl in the hallway and she ate just fine, except now she wouldn't even go in the crate. 

Knowing that Penny is generally pretty resilient, I just closed the crate door and ignored the whole thing thinking that by dinner time she will probably have forgotten it all. I did toss some cheese in the crate around lunch time just to see if she would go in, she would, but reluctantly. Again, I just closed the door and went about the day. 

At dinner time she did not want to go in the crate, so we tried to feed her in her smaller crate. Nope, that was scary too. So something about the idea of bowl + crate in her head had become scary. Dinner in the hallway again. 

4 hours later it was time to go to bed for the night, I did our usual routine, Penny falls asleep in the bed with me and OH while we read, then at lights out I put her in her crate. I did exactly that, she climbed right in, slept all night, not a peep, happy camper at wake up this morning.
I haven't fed breakfast yet, but this morning she walked by her big crate without giving it a look like she had been all day yesterday. We shall see....

The moral of the story - dogs make all sorts of weird associations that often make no sense to us. The door of the crate started it all, but somehow the food bowl also got implicated (water bowl was not scary at any point) and the weird association even transferred to the innocent smaller crate. With a dog who's generally resilient I find it's best to ignore the spook - within reason, and go about as normal. I put her in her smaller crate last night as if she had never been spooked by it, and she was absolutely fine. Since I wasn't worried, she wasn't worried - she forgot she was supposed to be worried 

I'm all for desensitization and counter conditioning protocols for a lot of situations, but sometimes we over complicate things. A spook is not a deep-seated fear. But we can turn a spook in to a deeper fear by overreacting to the dog's spook. 
I predict Penny may end up eating outside her crate for a day or two, be fine in the crate as long as there is no food bowl, and at some point I'll put her bowl back in the crate and all will be fine. 
If I went in to a big DS/CC protocol for eating in her crate that will more likely a) remind her she's scared of the crate, and b) convince her there is good reason to be scared because mom is making a big deal of this too.
So today's lesson in training is - do nothing  


TLDR:
Penny got spooked by her crate, made some weird associations with the crate and food bowl. We didn't make a big deal out of it, and she was fine going in her crate for bedtime though she's still worried about eating meals in her crate. I predict that will go away in a few days without any particular effort on our part.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

That's interesting, look forward to hearing how she progresses with the whole bowl in the crate thing. Sounds like she may have 'forgiven' (or more likely forgotten?) the crate for the attack. Can see how a crate door attack could put you off your lunch 
, though seems she's cone through unscathed. 

I've think I've been responsible for making Bodmin's eating out of a bowl issue worse. Mainly by fretting about it and over encouraging him to eat. He eats out of various bits of recycling now and can move it to eat where he pleases. He still occasionally looks a little anxious at feeding time, I just put it down without a word and he goes to it when he's ready. He gets most of his food through training now anyway, which is working well for us both.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well, as I was getting food ready for breakfast, Penny already started shaking and looking worried. The shaking could also be excitement about food, but I wasn't going to push and just fed her in the hallway near her crate. She ate fine. 

Later she went in to her big crate okay-ish with a pizzle. Didn't look totally thrilled but she settled in her bed to chew her pizzle, so we left. Daughter leaves after I do and I had told her to move Penny if she seemed uncomfortable. Daughter said she still looked unsettled so put her in the bedroom crate for the day. 

Something is still worrying her about the big crate. Not enough that she won't go in, but she doesn't like to stay in. 

We will continue to pretend she's fine with the big crate and just see how things go... 

FWIW, this is totally normal weirdness (how's that for an oxymoron) when it comes to dealing with fearful dogs or any behavioral modification stuff for that matter. 
Penny has been doing great as far as being brave about the world, but it's a good reminder that she has a long way to go still. 
Thursday was a tough day as far as dealing with scary things (pet store and new human, new place for a long time), Friday was a lot of teenagers, more new humans, Saturday she was exhausted, and Sunday she developed a new quirk. Hopefully a long week of boring routine will help her settle back with the possessed crate.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> Well, as I was getting food ready for breakfast, Penny already started shaking and looking worried. The shaking could also be excitement about food, but I wasn't going to push and just fed her in the hallway near her crate. She ate fine.
> 
> Later she went in to her big crate okay-ish with a pizzle. Didn't look totally thrilled but she settled in her bed to chew her pizzle, so we left. Daughter leaves after I do and I had told her to move Penny if she seemed uncomfortable. Daughter said she still looked unsettled so put her in the bedroom crate for the day.
> 
> ...


Do you think this is an example of 'trigger stacking' ??


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Paying for my lack of good photos this weekend 





















Linda Weasel said:


> Do you think this is an example of 'trigger stacking' ??


Definitely could be, except she didn't have an outburst, just created a weird association.

I took this video intending to show some play/training but it ended up being a great example of her showing me she's feeling unsure. 
It starts about 30 seconds in, you see her lose intensity in her play, gets distracted, jumps up on me, get distracted again and *then* she's back to the 'job' at hand.

It might seem inconsequential in the moment, but here is where you need to know your dog. She's a very intense, focused dog. For her to lose focus and intensity means something. To me much of this looks like a slightly unsure/conflicted dog, I don't know what is causing this, could be the trigger stacking, could be something at the house/with the crate that's causing extra stress, could be she's just having a 'meh' day, could also be me insisting on working in chest touches (which I use along with collar grabs) and that's too much for her right now.

Doesn't really matter, I don't need to *do* anything at this point. Just notice that she's slightly off, take a mental note and file that puzzle piece away in case I need it later. She's otherwise perfectly fine and happy, I'm not going to stress about a 10 second moment, but it's good to know and notice.






And back to being her usual maniac self 

__
http://instagr.am/p/CG0jqfolJOV/


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Monday night for dinner I switched bowls just to see if that made a difference, she did go in to her crate more readily but was still worried. So I let her finish in the hallway. 
So I closed up her big crate and pretended it didn't exist. Tuesday and Wednesday I fed her in the hallway, kept the big crate closed and inaccessible.
This morning I put her food in the big crate, she hopped in, ate, looked a little worried waiting to be let out, but was otherwise totally fine with the crate. *shrug* Who knows...

She's a little worried this morning anyway because it's *super* windy out and we keep hearing acorns and branches hit the roof. But nothing a good snuggle with Bates won't fix.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Monday night for dinner I switched bowls just to see if that made a difference, she did go in to her crate more readily but was still worried. So I let her finish in the hallway.
> So I closed up her big crate and pretended it didn't exist. Tuesday and Wednesday I fed her in the hallway, kept the big crate closed and inaccessible.
> This morning I put her food in the big crate, she hopped in, ate, looked a little worried waiting to be let out, but was otherwise totally fine with the crate. *shrug* Who knows...
> 
> ...


Glad she's more or less happy again with her crate again.
Her & Bates are so adorable together.
He probably sees her as his sometimes annoying kid sister, but secretly likes her being around.
Penny, well Penny loves him


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well, today Penny went in the big crate while we were at school & work and did absolutely fine. Weirdo. 
But hey, problem solved. Now to see what other weirdness she comes up with!

And because I know most of you check in just for cute photos and fun videos, here ya go!
I promise the first one is at normal speed  (So is the second one, I don't know how to speed up videos!)


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

For your evening entertainment, a toilet training story.

Penny is potty trained - sort of.
Let me explain.

She knows what "go pee pee" means.
However, Penny is a busy dog, Penny is a young dog.
Translation: Penny has the attention span of a gnat and the distractibility of an ADHD toddler eating red candy.
Taking Penny out to pee looks something like this:
"Go pee pee Penny"
*Penny dutifully sniffs around for a spot. Gets distracted by a grasshopper.*
"Go pee pee Penny"
*Head back down sniffing, chases frog.*
"Go pee pee Penny"
*Oh yeah! More sniffing. Oh wait a cat!*
"Penny. Go. Pee. Pee."
*Sniff, sniff, pee, Moth? Jump and chase*
"Penny did you actually pee?"

Penny lives with lazy humans who for the past many years have opened the front door, dog(s) go out, pee, come back in. We don't even have to go out with them.
Now that Penny is safe to let out unsupervised, we've started doing the same thing with her. Let her out, and when she's ready to come back in we stupidly assume she has also pee peed while out there.

Well, she hasn't. And the reason I know she hasn't is that she comes in, and since it's a little less distracting inside, realizes she actually does have to pee, and if you don't notice her very subtle cues right away, she pees by the front door.

By the front door is a success though right?
And she will ask to go out, but only once, and she's not really obvious about it, she sits and looks at you. But she sits and looks at you 100 times a day anyway, so you have to be clairvoyant and know that's a pee sit and look, and when you've just let her in from outside, it doesn't occur to you that the sit and look might be a pee sit and look.

So.
The good news is Penny is bonded enough that she's safe to let outside unsupervised.
The bad news is that this new skill is useless to us lazy humans who don't want to have to go out with the ADHD dog to make sure she pees.
Yeah yeah, suck it up buttercup and go out with the dog to make sure she pees.

For anyone out there struggling with toilet training issues, the best advice I know to give is make sure you teach a 'go pee pee' cue, that the dog understands it, and then go out with the dog to make sure they actually pee. I know, seems obvious, but clearly some of us (me) need that reminder


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> For your evening entertainment, a toilet training story.
> 
> Penny is potty trained - sort of.
> Let me explain.
> ...


Isla is 7 and she can still be like this although she doesn't pee indoors.

Her modus operandi.
First thing in the morning or last thing at night......

Let out of door along with the words 'go and be a good girl' - her go pee words
Isla goes and sniffs around the bottom of the bird feeders in case the birds have missed something
Sniffs the air to see if there's something edible elsewhere.
Turns round and heads back to door
Sees me flapping my hands which she has learned means 'stop mucking about and go and pee'
Walks to the corner of the house and peers round and sniffs the air
Looks back at me to see if I'm still looking, sees that I am and with a long suffering look heads off to the front of the house and out of sight
Not long later she reappears tail flaring and ready for breakfast/night night biccie
Did she pee or not? The only way I will know is if she either eats brekkie and immediately wants to go out again or wakes me up during the night (by standing by the bed and staring at me until I wake up) desperate to empty her bladder.
Yes, I too am far to lazy to go out with the dog to check she has actually pee'ed.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Well, today Penny went in the big crate while we were at school & work and did absolutely fine. Weirdo.
> But hey, problem solved. Now to see what other weirdness she comes up with!
> 
> And because I know most of you check in just for cute photos and fun videos, here ya go!
> I promise the first one is at normal speed  (So is the second one, I don't know how to speed up videos!)


I'll have some of what she's having. :Wideyed :Woot  


O2.0 said:


> For your evening entertainment, a toilet training story.
> 
> Penny is potty trained - sort of.
> Let me explain.
> ...





Siskin said:


> Isla is 7 and she can still be like this although she doesn't pee indoors.
> 
> Her modus operandi.
> First thing in the morning or last thing at night......
> ...


Not sure who's the lucky one(s) in this situation. You two because you get to be lazy and open the door, let the dogs out and go back inside and hope the dog actually pees.

Or me, who has to get coat and shoes and poo bags and keys and treats and take them for an actual toilet break.  
Pros:. I know they've actually peed and maybe pooped as well. And, even on leash, they still get about 2hrs+ a day of exercise. As do I.
Cons. Well, on a cold winter's night I can think of better things to do than trudge the cold, dark, deserted streets with at least 1 dog who's more interested in sniffing the latest peemail than leaving a reply. :Shifty


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Or me, who has to get coat and shoes and poo bags and keys and treats and take them for an actual toilet break.


Ugh! I don't envy you!
I don't even have to put on pants/trousers 

Possible TMI alert. I sleep in underwear and a t-shirt. It has finally gotten chilly overnight. The last couple of mornings going out in underwear and a t-shirt for the first wee in the morning (the dog, not me) is uncomfortable, but doable. This morning I definitely needed a jacket, so picture me, out in a jacket, underwear, flip flops singsonging to Penny to hurry the hell up and go pee pee before I freeze my butt off!


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> Well, today Penny went in the big crate while we were at school & work and did absolutely fine. Weirdo.
> But hey, problem solved. Now to see what other weirdness she comes up with!
> 
> And because I know most of you check in just for cute photos and fun videos, here ya go!
> I promise the first one is at normal speed  (So is the second one, I don't know how to speed up videos!)


Someone needs to issue that dog a speeding fine 

Glad the crate has been forgiven


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I haven't posted much training progress so today I tried to get some video of LLW training. 
She's not there yet, but she's getting progressively better and the next step is to see if she can be a running buddy 

But first:
Equipment matters. The dog is going to pull, lunge, leap, loose their mind at some point so make sure you have something that enables you to maintain control. With big dogs that might mean a walking belt or double leash. Personally I'm a fan of well fitted body harnesses because when the dog pulls I don't feel anxiety about it and I can engage my brain instead of being triggered by gasping noises if the dog is strangling herself on a collar.
I'm not an equipment fascist and some people will swear by other tools, it's all good IMV as long as you understand how the tool works, it's potential fall-out, you're clear about how the equipment is affecting your dog, and if that works towards your ultimate goals with your dog.

Penny is wearing a 3 in 1 petsafe harness and flat nylon lead.

The first video is about what to do when the dog pulls. 
Sometimes the dog just needs a reminder that there's someone at the other end of the leash. To that end I just say Penny's name and reward her for remembering that I exist.

I can reward her with food (as I do here) or I can reward her by running away in a different direction which is fun and also gets her focusing back on me instead of all the interesting sights and smells. I can also reward her by pointing out a good place to sniff (which she loves) or sniffing out a treat in a clump of grass. 
The reward for responding to her name doesn't have to be treats nor should be, particularly if the walk is so interesting that treats aren't.

But sometimes sights and smells are way more interesting than me and you end up with a dog pulling for all she's worth to get to the smell. Notice I try saying her name, and... nothing. No response whatsoever. There is zero point in me making kissy noises or trying to get her attention and if I do I risk teaching her to ignore me. So note I do not say her name again.

Now I just wait (this is where the right equipment comes in). I just stop and wait, I don't make noise, I don't call her, I just wait. Sure enough, eventually Penny remembers that I exist even if it's to turn and give me a WTH look. But, she turned and looked, so I reward that. Not with a treat, but with an opportunity to sniff (what she wanted to sniff anyway). 
Eventually I will put going to go sniff something on cue, and she will learn to check in with me before bombing off on a scent.






Then there are moments when it all comes together and you have a lovely LLW. You tell the dog how awesome she is, enjoy, and know that she'll probably roll in something gross further up the road, but for now it's nice to have a behaving dog next to you


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

For today's reality check, I tired a leashed walk with both Bates and Penny and it pretty much sucked.
Bates can't walk as fast as Penny wants to walk (well he can, but not for long), and Penny doesn't have a very good slow gear so she basically pulled the entire walk and I looked like some weird egyptian hieroglyph superman with one arm stretched out in front of me and the other equally stretched out behind me. I cut the whole thing short and aborted plan, got close enough to the house to let them both off leash and at least ended on a much happier note.

And that happens. 
There are days when nothing is working and you just have to hold on and survive the outing until you can get to where you can stop and re-assess things. Penny pulled about 90% of the walk, I ignored it because a) she's 9 pounds and I can, and b) there was too much going on to try and work on training. I would have been frustrated and ineffective, and that's never the state to train in. That happens - goes back to making sure you have management and equipment in place. 
On the occasions when she was walking nicely I praised her, talked to her, gave her treats, and basically reminded her that being a good dog has its benefits.

Tomorrow will be a better day 

And to add to the nothing working theme, here is Penny and her coat not working 
Seriously the dog is defective! :Hilarious:Hilarious






I think her next coat is going to be a skintight bodysuit.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> For today's reality check, I tired a leashed walk with both Bates and Penny and it pretty much sucked.
> Bates can't walk as fast as Penny wants to walk (well he can, but not for long), and Penny doesn't have a very good slow gear so she basically pulled the entire walk and I looked like some weird egyptian hieroglyph superman with one arm stretched out in front of me and the other equally stretched out behind me. I cut the whole thing short and aborted plan, got close enough to the house to let them both off leash and at least ended on a much happier note.
> 
> And that happens.
> ...



 She's to busy to stay in a coat. ​


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> For today's reality check, I tired a leashed walk with both Bates and Penny and it pretty much sucked.
> Bates can't walk as fast as Penny wants to walk (well he can, but not for long), and Penny doesn't have a very good slow gear so she basically pulled the entire walk and I looked like some weird egyptian hieroglyph superman with one arm stretched out in front of me and the other equally stretched out behind me. I cut the whole thing short and aborted plan, got close enough to the house to let them both off leash and at least ended on a much happier note.
> 
> And that happens.
> ...


I feel your pain. Honey's the same. I'm thinking of getting her a coat that doesn't have sleeves in it.


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Is it some kinda fashion statement perhaps?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> She's to busy to stay in a coat.


It's true though! Someone needs to make coats for little dogs who are off-leash, leaping, running, digging, and *moving*. 
Her coats work fine inside the house, but as soon as I let her out and she's off being her usual maniac self, coat ends up all cattywampus. 
And it's not really cold yet, when it gets winter cold she's going to have to figure out how to keep a coat on!



LinznMilly said:


> I feel your pain. Honey's the same. I'm thinking of getting her a coat that doesn't have sleeves in it.


You may be on to something! 



LittleMow said:


> Is it some kinda fashion statement perhaps?


LOL kids these days huh? :Hilarious


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> cattywampus


that's a new one for me. Does anyone else start adding up possible Scrabble scores when they find a new word? Or do I have a problem?


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> that's a new one for me. Does anyone else start adding up possible Scrabble scores when they find a new word? Or do I have a problem?


Oh it's one of my favorite words I learned since moving here nearly 25 years ago, and it's so apt for a lot of animal related things 

Speaking of the south east and language, @Beth78 did you ever get a chance to read Where the Crawdads Sing?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Our equivalent word is ”skew-whiff”.

I don't think that would beat ”cattywhumpus” in scrabble


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Love it, what a great word, will be squeezing it into convo wherever possible. Google said:

*Definition* - askew, awry, kitty-corner. *Cattywampus* is a variant of catawampus, another example of grand 19th century American slang. In addition to "askew" catawampus may refer to "an imaginary fierce wild animal," or may mean "savage, destructive."

Hadn't heard of kitty-corner either


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

LittleMow said:


> Love it, what a great word, will be squeezing it into convo wherever possible. Google said:
> 
> *Definition* - askew, awry, kitty-corner. *Cattywampus* is a variant of catawampus, another example of grand 19th century American slang. In addition to "askew" catawampus may refer to "an imaginary fierce wild animal," or may mean "savage, destructive."
> 
> Hadn't heard of kitty-corner either


I use kitty-corner all the time, but that's mainly because I can use it to describe a neighbour's garden.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> Love it, what a great word, will be squeezing it into convo wherever possible. Google said:
> 
> *Definition* - askew, awry, kitty-corner. *Cattywampus* is a variant of catawampus, another example of grand 19th century American slang. In addition to "askew" catawampus may refer to "an imaginary fierce wild animal," or may mean "savage, destructive."
> 
> Hadn't heard of kitty-corner either


Oh I use kitty-corner a lot! I thought that was a universal expression!


----------



## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> Speaking of the south east and language, @Beth78 did you ever get a chance to read Where the Crawdads Sing?


Yes I did read it and thoroughly enjoyed it, all the ups and downs of kyas life. I have to say it is a book that does stay with you, I often find myself thinking about it and the swamps, shells and birds.
A very good read.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I really loved it. I need to re-read it now that the seasons are changing and enjoy it through the book too  
It does stay with you doesn't it?


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I've recommended it to a couple of friends. One had already read it, both loved it.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well, the cold has finally hit, looks like November is indeed here. It's not below freezing yet, but it's chilly!






A little later I tested Penny out. I let her think we were walking up the driveway, let her get a good bit up ahead and distracted and then I just stopped. Didn't call her, didn't make a noise, just waited to see how long it would take her to realize I wasn't with her. 
Sorry the video is a boring 20 seconds of staring at my driveway, but it's worth watching to the end 






This was a good test for her and she passed with flying colors. This is the sort of off leash reliability we need out here in the boonies. Not just that she will come when I call her, but that she is invested in keeping up with my whereabouts too.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> Well, the cold has finally hit, looks like November is indeed here. It's not below freezing yet, but it's chilly!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a heart in mouth moment though isn't it, will they notice you're not there and will they come back especially as Penny had been roaming before you found her.
She's a good little girl


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Siskin said:


> It's a heart in mouth moment though isn't it, will they notice you're not there and will they come back especially as Penny had been roaming before you found her.
> She's a good little girl


I wouldn't have tested her if I wasn't very confident she would notice I wasn't with her, and even if she didn't notice, I could have called her. 
But yes, it's hard not to call. But it's also important that I know where we're at. If you don't ask, you won't know! 

I used to test Bates and Breez out like that too. Lunar was such a mama's boy he never would get far enough to be out of sight. Breez rarely did either. Bates was much more bold - and for that reason he always had the better recall of the 3 of them - cause he needed it!


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

That was lovely, well done Penny. They really are a handsome duo, like chalk and cheese, but they just seem to work


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Well done Penny.

I must say I wish I had a drive like that.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Kaily said:


> Well done Penny.
> 
> I must say I wish I had a drive like that.


That was my thought exactly, what a super setting - for dogs and humans


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Well, the cold has finally hit, looks like November is indeed here. It's not below freezing yet, but it's chilly!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely a heart-in-mouth moment. She's a clever little girly and knows which side her bread's buttered.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Kaily said:


> Well done Penny.
> 
> I must say I wish I had a drive like that.


Ha ha! When I first read that I though you were talking about drive as in drive in dogs, and I was trying to figure out what you meat - what part was an example of drive LOL. Then I realized you meant drive_way_! :Hilarious

We have a tiny house on a lot of land which works well as we'd rather be outside anyway  
Land is dirt cheap around here, when we bought this plot there wasn't even 911 (emergency) services out here. For us the trade in some comforts of civilization are well worth it  
Though Penny wasn't too impressed with the coyotes last night, they sounded like they were pretty close. Good thing she has a nice snug house to stay safe in!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well I suppose Penny is even more official as our dog now that she has several horrible nicknames. 
Swamp rat and meth puppy top the list 

And she's going to give me a heart attack. That's a lot higher than it looks. And when she got out even further, she decided to _turn around _and go back. Agh!!!!!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

After tree scaling, Penny was tired last night. This is her not bothering to move after I straightened out my leg. Weirdo.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> After tree scaling, Penny was tired last night. This is her not bothering to move after I straightened out my leg. Weirdo.
> 
> View attachment 454039


Oh Penny you are funny.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

That dog struck gold when she found you.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Then there's this


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Wouldn't you just love to know what she is thinking - beyond the surface ”safe, fed, happy” stuff.

We had an interesting discussion on another forum I use that was bordering into how much dogs analyse stuff. Clearly there is ”if I do X, then Y happens”. But how much deeper does it go?


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Then there's this
> View attachment 454053


Oh my, so adorable. Love them x


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

JoanneF said:


> Wouldn't you just love to know what she is thinking - beyond the surface "safe, fed, happy" stuff.
> 
> We had an interesting discussion on another forum I use that was bordering into how much dogs analyse stuff. Clearly there is "if I do X, then Y happens". But how much deeper does it go?


Yes.. I'm always wondering what they are thinking.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Not sure they could get any cuter . They seem so well bonded, like they've been together for ages. So great that she found you guys. 

Penny’s certainly a brave one when it comes to heights! Whilst at my mum's Bodmin decided it was a good idea to chase a spaniel up a very steep, sandy cliff. My heart was in my mouth as sand and dog came tumbling down. He managed to stay on all fours but a bit quicker than he'd anticipated


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Wouldn't you just love to know what she is thinking - beyond the surface "safe, fed, happy" stuff.
> 
> We had an interesting discussion on another forum I use that was bordering into how much dogs analyse stuff. Clearly there is "if I do X, then Y happens". But how much deeper does it go?


I do! And I wonder what she dreams about too. She definitely sees Bates as a source of security, I do wonder how Bates sees her. He enjoys her, but he's also quick to tell her to chill. She behaves better for him than us. He's the only one in the house she doesn't bite LOL!


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Oh she's so cute!!
Like a little Tasmanian devil x mogwai, I love her


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

BlueJay said:


> Oh she's so cute!!
> Like a little Tasmanian devil x mogwai, I love her


Oh you missed her whole story didn't you? 
Yep, we have a tiny little swamp rat dog now  And we even sort of like her :Hilarious


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

BlueJay said:


> Oh she's so cute!!
> Like a little Tasmanian devil x mogwai, I love her


Hahaha did you see the video that @O2.0 posted on this thread of a very hyper Penny running back & forth. She's a totally crazy little spite fire. Love her x


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ebonycat said:


> Hahaha did you see the video that @O2.0 posted on this thread of a very hyper Penny running back & forth. She's a totally crazy little spite fire. Love her x


The meth puppy one? 





Or this one?





There's also this:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CG0jqfolJOV/

And this

__
http://instagr.am/p/CF0Iw0aF482/

She's a crackhead!! Can you imagine if she were normal sized!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

The fact she _knows_ that she can burn that energy in play rather than have to conserve it, or not have it at all, is lovely too.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> The fact she _knows_ that she can burn that energy in play rather than have to conserve it, or not have it at all, is lovely too.


I sometimes think she's making up for lost time, that she acts as puppyish as she does because she never got a chance to _be_ a puppy. 
I have no idea how long she was loose, I know it was a least a month according to the neighbor who's cat food she was eating, but I feel like it may have been longer. Before then she was out on a chain, so not being a puppy then either.

And yes, it does my heart good to see her play like that without a care in the world


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Oh my gosh, she’s nuts 

I meant the meth puppy one, I hadn’t seen the young & old one but that one too 

Just going to watch the Instagram ones, then I’m going to have to watch them all again, everyday as she will brighten up my day


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I'm a sucker for a happy ending, she ticks that box every time for me!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Isn’t she just so adorable!!!
It’s so lovely to see her so, so happy.
From seeing her with her head & tail down, with that horrid chain. It warms my heart seeing her happy & safe.
Bates has the patience of a saint :Hilarious


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Do you know what she reminds me of with all the digging? A meerkat. Maybe that’s what she’s crossed with :Hilarious


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Bahahahaha she's just amazing :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Ha ha, so funny, the top one is the one my OH thought was sped up! I knew better though 

Old and young is my favourite (so fa) it's the contrast between the two and Bates's nonchalance - priceless


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

I love seeing them snuggled up together something my two never did, they'd lie back to back like a married couple who'd had a row!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I've had a few people ask me how I knew Penny was okay to be let off leash and/or be loose outside (none of our property is fenced).

Those of you who have been following more closely know I have put a good bit of time in to not just training Penny to come when called, but to default to staying with me rather than running off.
I don't know any other way to do it. I mean, I know some people who don't have a secured, fenced yard swear by boundary collar training (type of shock collar) but IME those fail just as much with determined dogs. Really the only way to be totally sure your dog isn't going to run off is to build that foundation, piece by piece, however long each step takes. It just takes time.

Yesterday marks 3 months that Penny has lived here, and this morning it's unseasonably warm, the front door is open, the dogs are welcome to come and go as they please. Penny has not gone more than 20 feet from the house. Annoyingly, both dogs were harassing me to take them for a walk. Yes, you read that right. They have the door to the house wide open, access to hundreds of acres of completely wild land, and they both want me to put on my outside shoes so I can take them for a walk - on the land they already have free access to 

My own personal observation/theory to add to all this though is that feral, semi feral, whatever you want to call them - dogs who have been running loose for a while, tend to develop a strong instinct for territory. So it's relatively easy to encourage them to stay contained to a certain area once you make it their territory.

One more quick trick I will share. When we sleep in and it's light out for the first wee, I'll let them both out (having an already trained dog is incredibly helpful), and while they're out there hopefully doing their morning wee, I prepare their breakfast. That way even though they come right back in, it's a highly rewarded return to the confinement of the house. The more repetitions Penny gets of coming back in to a meal, the more motivated she will be to do a quick outing then come right back to the house to make sure she's not missing any food 

And yes, we did go for a walk  
Look for the little swamp rat in the middle of the photo


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> I've had a few people ask me how I knew Penny was okay to be let off leash and/or be loose outside (none of our property is fenced).
> 
> Those of you who have been following more closely know I have put a good bit of time in to not just training Penny to come when called, but to default to staying with me rather than running off.
> I don't know any other way to do it. I mean, I know some people who don't have a secured, fenced yard swear by boundary collar training (type of shock collar) but IME those fail just as much with determined dogs. Really the only way to be totally sure your dog isn't going to run off is to build that foundation, piece by piece, however long each step takes. It just takes time.
> ...


Spotted!


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

That's so funny, and pretty cool, that they chose not to take themselves for a walk, preferring you to take them  it's incredible the progress you've made in such a short space of time, with Bates's your handsome helper 

I didn't think Bodmin's recall would be very good, as he's mainly on flexi or longline, except in garden. But on the beach my mum was impressed and said 'you know he's come back every time you've called', I realised he had . Though maybe cheating a bit as only called if I thought he'd come . Made me realise that chipping away at it, even though he's on long lead, is paying off, slowly but surely.

Just the fact he responds to me at all now is great, at first we had no focus from him at all while we were out.

Eta: spotted her! I'm getting good at this now


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> I didn't think Bodmin's recall would be very good, as he's mainly on flexi or longline, except in garden. But on the beach my mum was impressed and said 'you know he's come back every time you've called', I realised he had . Though maybe cheating a bit as only called if I thought he'd come . Made me realise that chipping away at it, even though he's on long lead, is paying off, slowly but surely.


Way to go! And not cheating at all to only call when you know he'd come - that's exactly what you should do! I still don't call Penny all the time because there's times I know she'll ignore me. I also know she won't ever go too far so I can afford to not call her. If she didn't have an invisible umbilical cord attached to me and Bates I wouldn't risk it and she would be on a dope rope (aka long line  )

I just posted a long recall reply on another thread, and that's basically it - chip away at it little by little. There really isn't any other way - not that I know at least! I've managed to teach all sorts of dogs a reliable recall so if there were shortcuts I'd hope I'd know some by now.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

This is an example of when I would NOT try to practice recall LOL


__
http://instagr.am/p/CHTDDSAF4gD/

The chipmunk (I think it's a chipmunk) was highly inconvenienced, but not harmed by my homewrecker dogs 
This was yesterday, and guess what I did on today's walk? Yup, pointed right at the hole and encouraged Penny to look and sniff.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Thanks, I do feel like we're starting to get somewhere.

Great to see Bates and Penny tag-teaming the home wrecking! Though Bates seems to be taking the lead and has his head more in the game


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> Thanks, I do feel like we're starting to get somewhere.
> 
> Great to see Bates and Penny tag-teaming the home wrecking! Though Bates seems to be taking the lead and has his head more in the game



Bates has experience, Penny has speed, if they ever learn to work together efficiently the local fauna is doomed 

(If you watch carefully you can see the chipmunk escape)


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Bates could scoop it out and Penny could catch it 

Going to watch on big screen tomorrow and play stop the chipmunk


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Thought I would post some recall videos I've been collecting that show different ways I work to build that foundation. Notice she *still* does not have a formal recall cue, for now it's still just rewarding offered behaviors like check-ins, and responding to her name. Eventually she will have an actual cue (probably a whistle), but I'm a big believer in "don't name it 'till you love it" and I don't love her recall yet. There are still instances where I know she's likely to not come, and those need to be sorted out before I introduce what will be her non-negotiable cue.

For those counting, we're at 13 weeks. Yup, I've been building her recall for 13 weeks and it's still no where near perfect. And I would not expect it to be either.

Pro-tip: Competition. If the other guy might get the treat instead of you, motivation increases  Warning - do not attempt with dogs who have guarding issues unless you're sure you can keep a scuffle from happening. 





Another tip: give 'em a chance to do the right thing, and when they do tell them how awesome they are.





Just a typical check-in and respond to name practice. Note she responds to good girl because she knows that it a treat usually follows, but she get side-tracked by a sniff, that's fine. I didn't ask her to come, I just appreciated her check-in. 
Notice also that every recall is followed by a release. Giving them permission to run off makes a big difference too. 





Also nice to show you guys she's not *always* a meth puppy, she does have a more neutral speed


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Ohhhh, I've missed this thread! . Glad to see an update.



O2.0 said:


> Pro-tip: Competition. If the other guy might get the treat instead of you, motivation increases


Yup, I've started doing this with my two.  Often I find that Honey will win the first one and Milly wins the next. 



O2.0 said:


> Another tip: give 'em a chance to do the right thing, and when they do tell them how awesome they are.


Absolutely!

I never actually realised that I do this by default until I read a blog post that mentioned something along the lines that we're so quick to notice and punish when [puppies/dogs/kids] do something wrong, but much slower to praise when they do something right.  I was sad for a moment, then thought about all the times I praise and treat Milly just for LLW, or eye contact or not bolting when given the chance - and Honey when she walks to heel, stops and waits at the edge of the grass whilst I pick up after Milly (Honey appears to have a thing against grass  . Given the choice of cutting across a field with us, or going right the way round but sticking to the path, she'll choose the path), or gives eye contact, made me realise I default to praising the good more than I react to the bad.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Well done Penny she is doing so well. Love watching Bates join in.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> made me realise I default to praising the good more than I react to the bad.


Just as we're quick to notice the misbehaviors in our dogs/kids, we're also quick about finding fault with ourselves, it's nice to give yourself the same benefit of noticing what you do right


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Just as we're quick to notice the misbehaviors in our dogs/kids, we're also quick about finding fault with ourselves, it's nice to give yourself the same benefit of noticing what you do right


Yup. I'm the worst for giving myself a hard time, picking up my mistakes and not realising when I do things right until much later.

Comes as quite a nice surprise when you realise you do get quite a few things right.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Enjoy  
Bitey face aka squish the Penny and bonus Penny butt.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Enjoy
> Bitey face aka squish the Penny and bonus Penny butt.
> 
> View attachment 454580
> ...


That last one had me snorting with laughter.  :Mooning


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Love the bitey face picks.

I think Bates think you got him his own pet.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> I think Bates think you got him his own pet.


Sometimes  
Other times, when Penny is annoying him, he looks at me as if to say "Why mom? Why did you bring this little swamp rat home?"


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Swamp Rat in her natural habitat


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Swamp Rat in her natural habitat
> View attachment 454616
> View attachment 454617
> View attachment 454618


She looks like a demon dog in the first pic, and had to play Where's Penny in the third. Lovely pics. As usual.


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Oh I LOVE these two so so much.

Love Penny’s butt pic 

She is such a happy little thing.
Please never stop filming these two, seeing them together brightens my day.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> She looks like a demon dog in the first pic,


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious She *is* a little demon! That's another one of her nicknames  


ebonycat said:


> Please never stop filming these two, seeing them together brightens my day.


Aw thank you! I shall! They brighten my day too, and I'm more than happy to share


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

O2.0 said:


> Sometimes
> Other times, when Penny is annoying him, he looks at me as if to say "Why mom? Why did you bring this little swamp rat home?"


This is the look :Hilarious:Hilarious
He's looking dead at me as he's dodging Penny's onslaught. 










In other musings, one of the recall threads got me thinking about recall in terms of behavior vs. mindset. Meaning, there is the behavior of recall that you train, add a cue, proof and eventually have hopefully a very solid, reliable behavior. Then there is the mindset of recall that involves the dog paying attention to where you are, and being motivated to stay with you. 
I was mulling this all over in my head when a friend posted this:








And it all fell in to place for me. 
I want Penny to have both the behavior of a recall, but also the mindset of wanting to stay close enough to stay with me out on walks. Sure, she will bomb of and go after scents and critters, but I want her to always have in the back of her mind to stay with the family group - usually me and Bates but also other family members. You don't achieve this training only recall on specific occasions when you have your training hat on. You achieve this with every interaction.

I think when helping other posters, we focus a lot on the mechanics of training the *behavior* of recall and often forget that every other interaction that's happening with that dog/owner pair, during the rest of the walk when they're not practicing recall, during the daily interactions, it *all* ties in, it all matters. And of course that's also a harder nut to crack.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Just so.
It’s not just the obeying of the recall command, it’s about checking in, coming to see where you are, waiting for you if you’re-tying your shoe lace. Acknowledging and rewarding all these things as something good your dog chooses to do.

I see so many people who are out walking and having more interaction with their phone than their dog....


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> I see so many people who are out walking and having more interaction with their phone than their dog....


Yup, and while their nose in the the phone, the dog has done 14 rewardable behaviors and none have been rewarded. They tune the dog out and then wonder why the dog tunes them out!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I thought I would share this video of Penny being a determined terrier, and the value in just waiting the dog out.

The scenario - walk was over, I went to put Penny in the car, and she wanted nothing to do with me instead *insisting* that she needed to go over and check that area out that was clearly marked "no trespassing."

My choices could have been to simply reel her in, pick her up and put her in the car. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that and I would do that in many scenarios. But, since it was Sunday and I had all day to sit there if needed, I let it be a learning opportunity for her to see avoiding me doesn't work and isn't fun, but coming to me always works and will earn a reward. 
It's not an argument, not a confrontation. Neither one of us is upset. I just sat and waited for her to decide that coming to me was a better option that continually hitting the end of the flexi.

I'd turn the volume on, otherwise it's just a weird video of a dog at the end of a leash


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

One other option, perhaps.

Once only my Ridgeback refused to get in the car, so I drove off without her.

It was totally safe to do so, and she wasn’t the sort of personality to be traumatised.

I stopped after a few yards and she threw herself into the boot; cured.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Linda Weasel said:


> One other option, perhaps.
> 
> Once only my Ridgeback refused to get in the car, so I drove off without her.
> 
> ...


Loki refuses to get in the car at the field I got in closed the door started the engine. I've never seen a baby boxer move so fast. Meanwhile Sox was in the back egging me on.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> One other option, perhaps.
> 
> Once only my Ridgeback refused to get in the car, so I drove off without her.
> 
> ...


I shouldn't laugh but :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
And I know ridgebacks 



Boxer123 said:


> Loki refuses to get in the car at the field I got in closed the door started the engine. I've never seen a baby boxer move so fast. *Meanwhile Sox was in the back egging me on.*


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
Poor long suffering Sox!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

The many colors of Penny. These photos are not altered in any way - just cropped. One mid morning full sun, the other late afternoon low shadows. I'm going to start calling her camouflage puppy, she really does blend in with her environment! Maybe she really is a wild dog meerkat swap rat creature  
And is it just me, or is someone looking rather muscle-y? 

















And a bonus Bates butt just 'cause this photo makes me laugh at the dichotomy between them


----------



## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

She is a bit of a chameleon. I've always loved her colour and it seems to be getting darker. Had look up the meaning of dichotomy, you learn something every day


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

There's been several posts lately on focus/engagement, and I thought I would do a quick video on engagement. What is it, what does it look like. 
Wondering if it would be worth a separate thread in dog training and behavior?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well then! Ironically engagement videos don't seem to be particularly engaging :Hilarious
Granted, the audio kind of sucks on this one, I don't know how to add captions after the fact, but I can do a written explanation.

In other news, I lost Penny last night.

No worries, she is found now.
It has gotten pretty cold the last two nights and if you follow BatesnPenny on instagram you know Penny has discovered burrowing under blankets.

Last night I got up to pee and noticed Penny wasn't in the bed. She has the choice of bed, or her crate. She usually starts out in the bed and at some point in the night gets in to her crate. I have the baby gate up so she's confined to the bedroom.

So when I noticed she wasn't in the bed I checked the crate, and no Penny. Huh. Maybe she decided to snuggle up to Bates, so in the dark I'm patting all around Bates feeling for a Penny lump, nothing. Bates is looking at me like I've lost my mind.

No Penny lump by Bates, no Penny in her crate, not in the bed. The gate is up, so she has to be in the bedroom right?
I put my phone light on and start searching all around the bedroom. OH wakes up "what are you doing"?
"I can't find Penny."
"She's right here" gestures vaguely towards his feet.
"She's not." I'm thinking she was there when he fell asleep but isn't anymore.
"Right here!" he's now patting the bed by his feet. I figure he's finally lost it and has decided his feet are dogs. I mean, dogs is slang for feet. Clearly dementia has set in.

To humor him I pat the bed by his feet and low and behold, a Penny lump.

Little swamp rat has burrowed all the way to the bottom of the bed! Bear in mind we tuck the sheet in at the foot of the bed, so there's no exit down there!

With Penny now found and wondering what mom's problem is, we all go back to sleep, Penny now towards the top of the bed.
By wake up this morning she was back at the bottom of the bed about 200 degrees, like a little baked potato in the bed, but happy as a clam and didn't want to get up for morning wees :Hilarious

Little heat seeker charging:


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Well then! Ironically engagement videos don't seem to be particularly engaging :Hilarious
> Granted, the audio kind of sucks on this one, I don't know how to add captions after the fact, but I can do a written explanation.
> 
> In other news, I lost Penny last night.
> ...


If it makes you feel better, I couldn't find my own bedroom door last night. :Bag

It's the 2nd time I've got lost in this shoeb. . . I mean . . . Flat.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

She knows where her comforts are!

I don't suppose she travelled terribly far to where you found her, imagine if she was still chained up somewhere with these temperatures in a yard with just a kennel. It doesn't bear thinking about.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

That did make me laugh! Also reminded me of Belle, who would start of in her bed then when it cooled down would come in with us and go under the quilt to the bottom of the bed, just like Penny. I used to wonder how she didn't suffocate.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Oh dear Penny I've lost loki before in the house and I live in a tiny cottage I looked everywhere before finding him in my bed.

@O2.0 with regards to the engagement video I didn't seem to get alerts for this thread so only just found it but I am interested I really need this with Loki if you do make a separate thread.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I once "lost" the yorkie pup we were fostering. She was tiny (12 weeks old) and literally disappeared. I knew she was inside as we'd come in 10 mins or so before so scoured the house, under the sofas, beds, etc etc. Eventually I went to put my slippers on and there she was, snuggled inside them. She had a bell put on her after that!!

And once my Mum and brother "lost" Fly (22kg lurcher). They were going out and leaving the dogs, and apparently were shouting for him all over the house, outside in the garden, down the fields, thought he'd gone for a run across the countryside. He was just on his bed in the French windows soaking up the sun, just out of sight behind the sofa, totally ignoring their frantic calls :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Sarah H said:


> I went to put my slippers on and there she was, snuggled inside them.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> If it makes you feel better, I couldn't find my own bedroom door last night. :Bag


LOL 
I can find doors, usually because I walk in to them 



JoanneF said:


> It doesn't bear thinking about.


 I really try not to think about it. There are so many dogs like her out there who didn't get found/caught. It breaks my heart 



margy said:


> I used to wonder how she didn't suffocate.


 I was seriously concerned about it but apparently she doesn't need as much oxygen as we do. That might explain a lot about her mental capabilities :Hilarious



Boxer123 said:


> I am interested I really need this with Loki if you do make a separate thread.


 Ask and ye shall receive  Just posted a thread in dog training and behavior.



Sarah H said:


> Eventually I went to put my slippers on and there she was, snuggled inside them.


Oh how sweet is that? :Kiss


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I've just realised, the little yorkie foster was called Penny too!!!!!!! Suits a naughty feisty little terrier!

Here she is (just found some photos somewhere), I had her for a couple of weeks when Nooka was a pup too.










Don't be fooled by that adorable face!!










Sorry slight derailment there. It's nice to remember old fosters!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> Sorry slight derailment there. It's nice to remember old fosters!


She's adorable! Lovely photos!


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

O2.0 said:


> I was seriously concerned about it but apparently she doesn't need as much oxygen as we do. That might explain a lot about her mental capabilities :Hilarious


Little dog = little lungs...clearly she doesnt need as much oxygen!
I think most little dogs are pretty epic burrowers and love their comforts. I kinda rely on my lot to be furry hot water bottles and keep me warm in bed over the winter months. (Although Hannah has possibly suffered oxygen deprivation over the years as she sleeps right down at the bottom of the bed and stays under the blankets all year round).


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Talking of losing dogs, reminds me of the time my mum was pet sitting for me while I went to an appointment or something (can't remember what it was now).

Anyway, I came home and mum met me at the door said, "I think I''ve lost Honey."

Climbed the first for steps to the half landing, and there she was, waiting at the top. , tail like a helicopter.

To be fair to mum, Honey was probably under a pile of clothes waiting to go in the washer, or sandwiched between the memory foam on Milly's bed.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Bodmin is a burrower, though chance of losing him under the duvet would be a fine thing 
. Good job your oh woke up or you may have been playing 'Find Penny' for some time 

Just catching up with this thread, I didn't get an alert either - for the engagement post, I did for today's one though 

Great video, love how she's really excited and still able to focus. She has great posture (is that the right word for it?), she has a sort of happy light footed prance . 

Off to the training and behaviour section now...


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> Great video, love how she's really excited and still able to focus. She has great posture (is that the right word for it?), she has a sort of happy light footed prance .


I like it when she's prancy pants like that too  I don't know what to call it either!

OH and I were recently congratulating ourselves that Penny is mostly terrier "lite" not a full-on terrier. Then there are moments like this... 
*sigh*





But then there's the cute


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

This is what a stubborn swamp rat terrierist looks like:










That is the face of a dog who found a critter hole, dug at said critter hole for far too long, had to be forcibly removed from the critter hole, and was not happy about it.

Terriers! Who would have 'em!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> This is what a stubborn swamp rat terrierist looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And I hope you feel suitable snubbed, too, @O2.0 !!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

She was so mad when I took her away, kept squirming to get down. Finally I put her down thinking she'd go back to the hole - at least she's easy to catch what with having her head stuck in the hole. But nope, she stuck with me the whole way home, sulked for most of it, but stayed with me. Finally closer to the house she decided to chase one of the cats, and when I called her back for treats all was forgiven :Hilarious


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> I put her down thinking she'd go back to the hole


That's interesting, I have found if something (discarded food) has caught T's attention, as long as I can get him a couple of yards past it, he won't go back. Unless it is really, really high value.


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> This is what a stubborn swamp rat terrierist looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She does have her business face on there


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> That's interesting, I have found if something (discarded food) has caught T's attention, as long as I can get him a couple of yards past it, he won't go back. Unless it is really, really high value.


I was surprised. I thought for sure she would be single minded about it, but she stuck with me, and by the time we got to the house it was forgotten. I'm sure she'll go check it out again tomorrow, will be interesting to see if she comes back willingly or if I have to remove her again.

OH and I joke that she's terrier 'lite' not full-on terrier - which we're quite happy with!!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> She does have her business face on there


Crittering is serious business!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Just got back from the vet, had to get Bates' gabapentin refilled so brought both dogs to get them weighed. Bates had gotten a little tubby at 90 pounds, good boy got him down to 84, so he may get some Thanksgiving goodies after all 

Little Pen-dog is a fatso at a whopping 11 pounds! She says it's all muscle :Angelic

Here is Bates being handsome this morning. He sits funny because his knees aren't what they used to be, but he's still a handsome old man  

















And Penny being a huntress. I swear she changes color every day. If it's sunny she's red, if it's cloudy she's dark brown.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Aww Bates is so handsome, just love him.
Penny, well she’s just crazy, but good crazy. She’s such a little character.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ebonycat said:


> Aww Bates is so handsome, just love him.
> Penny, well she's just crazy, but good crazy. She's such a little character.


LOL I was just telling @ShibaPup that the crazy ones are the best ones  Or something like that. 
Bates was a hellion in his heyday. These days he pretends to be a stately gentleman


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> LOL I was just telling @ShibaPup that the crazy ones are the best ones  Or something like that.
> Bates was a hellion in his heyday. These days he pretends to be a stately gentleman


They certainly make you work for and appreciate down time :Hilarious:Hilarious

Penny has seriously landed on her feet with you - it's amazing to see how far she's come, from a nervous scared looking pup to a crazy little attentive swamp rat, I love that you call her that!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ShibaPup said:


> I love that you call her that!


Do they even count as yours if you don't have horrible nicknames for them?


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## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Do they even count as yours if you don't have horrible nicknames for them?


Lily goes by Dog or Darling - depends how good she's being, I'm not very creative :Hilarious


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Do they even count as yours if you don't have horrible nicknames for them?





ShibaPup said:


> Lily goes by Dog or Darling - depends how good she's being, I'm not very creative :Hilarious


. . . I feel another nickname thread coming on...


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Just got back from the vet, had to get Bates' gabapentin refilled so brought both dogs to get them weighed. Bates had gotten a little tubby at 90 pounds, good boy got him down to 84, so he may get some Thanksgiving goodies after all
> 
> Little Pen-dog is a fatso at a whopping 11 pounds! She says it's all muscle :Angelic
> 
> ...


I was about to say that's a horrible wound on Bates' leg there . . . Then I realised it's a leaf. :Hilarious :Hilarious 

Swamp rat is a whole 11 pounds? ? :Jawdrop


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

He sure is handsome, looking quiet regal - just can't imagine him being a hellion!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Swamp rat is a whole 11 pounds? ? :Jawdrop


YES! Little fatso!! 
I'm looking at her, hands on her, and I don't think she's overweight. I think she was just not in great shape when I found her.

I mean, she could probably have a little bit less in her meals since she's still getting so much of her food in treats, but she's such a go, go, go meth puppy that I figure she burns it off. She sleeps hard too though, so might need to knock a few pieces of kibble out of her meals.

Then there's also the business of the other members of this household who keep trying to get her to eat people food. She's very suspicious of non scavenged food like fresh fruit and snack products like chips. Kids think it's great to teach her to enjoy nasty fast food french fries. Teens


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> He sure is handsome, looking quiet regal - just can't imagine him being a hellion!


Oh if only you knew! 
The skunk sagas alone were enough to sell him to the gypsies. 
The holes poked in rude dogs, the hole poked in himself chasing prey (he impaled himself on a sharp cedar branch), the dead chickens.... 
To his credit he's never been unsafe with humans though. Well, there was that one trainer that he nearly broke her nose, but I did try and warn her... 
Yeah, he's an arsehole. Don't let him fool ya. But I lurves him


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

If you're dealing with overarousal, reactivity, general dog acting like a douche, this is for you.

You may want to turn the volume down, it's going to get loud:





Yes, that is Penny being an utter arse. 
She's pissed that I'm not letting her chase sighthound diva who does not want to be chased. That's all. She wants to be put down and allowed to chase the sighthound who is now getting further and further away. The horror!!

We will definitely work on managing arousal levels. But as you can see, sometimes you stuff the dog under your armpit and do whatever you have to do to manage the situation in the moment. 
My friend filming is a terrier person and frankly, neither one of us should be allowed to own terriers because we both find the douche side entirely too entertaining :Angelic


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh, Penny!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Oh, Penny!


I'm revoking her chihuahua card. She's all terrier


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Ahahahaha 

Let me at 'em!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Ha ha I played it loki came flying downstairs you did say it was loud.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I'm revoking her chihuahua card. She's all terrier


So Not terrier lite???


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Ha ha I played it loki came flying downstairs you did say it was loud.


Does this make you feel a little better about Loki's douche dog moments? They ALL have them, even the sweet cuddly ones 
Bates used to scream when I would hold him away from prey, it was just as ridiculous, but again, I would literally stuff his head between my legs and turn him away. Did you see how quickly Penny shut up when I turned her around? That was two-fold, object of arousal out of view, and realizing that we won't move forward if she's screaming like a loon.



SbanR said:


> So Not terrier lite???


This is my friend who since day one has sworn up and down that Penny is a feist. They're basically a ******* rat terrier. Still used for hunting around here. That we found her on a chain (or leftovers of a chain) just confirmed it for her, she thinks she's some hunting dog who got loose. Yesterday was full of a lot of different version of "I told you so"


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I should also share some evidence of Penny not being a screaming potato. 
She was completely fine with sighthound diva in the house, and she did a decent job sharing humans with the other terrier mutt in the house though this photo cracked me up with the look on both bitches' faces 










Outside of sharing humans they did great together, particularly if it involved exploring and crittering  


















And then this morning, I'm not sure what's going on here, but they both look like they're totally up to something!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Thought I'd put these photos next to each other, see if anyone sees a weight difference. Top is 9 pounds, bottom is 11 pounds. 
I see more muscle for sure, particularly on the shoulder, back leg and haunches, but also less tuck-up. Trying to decide if someone is fine or got a little tubby


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Thought I'd put these photos next to each other, see if anyone sees a weight difference. Top is 9 pounds, bottom is 11 pounds.
> I see more muscle for sure, particularly on the shoulder, back leg and haunches, but also less tuck-up. Trying to decide if someone is fine or got a little tubby
> 
> View attachment 455852
> ...


With my untrained eye all I see is muscle, especially on her back leg.
She's looks great too me. A very fit little dog


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Much more muscle at the flank and loin, which *might* make her tuck less pronounced but not tubby?


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

I agree, again with untrained eye, she looks great, nice little tuck, muscly legs


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> I should also share some evidence of Penny not being a screaming potato.
> She was completely fine with sighthound diva in the house, and she did a decent job sharing humans with the other terrier mutt in the house though this photo cracked me up with the look on both bitches' faces
> 
> View attachment 455775
> ...


Well that 1st picture speaks a thousand words, did make me laugh. Looks like good team work on those critters, she certainly takes that very seriously. As for Penny and Bates, I'd definitely had been concerned


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I just love what you have done with her. She is such a fabulous little success story, have you considered selling it to Disney yet?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

She's a solid little potato when you pick her up. I thought I noticed more muscle on her back legs but looking at those photos next to each other surprised me. She's really filled out!
She does burn a ton running around like a loon like she does 



LittleMow said:


> Well that 1st picture speaks a thousand words, did make me laugh.


That's not me Penny's sitting on, it's my friend and the little black dog's owner. Little black dog is NOT impressed that Penny gets her mom's lap. Penny is totally rubbing it in too. Bitches LOL


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> I just love what you have done with her. She is such a fabulous little success story, have you considered selling it to Disney yet?


LOL maybe someone important on instagram will notice them


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> That's not me Penny's sitting on, it's my friend and the little black dog's owner. Little black dog is NOT impressed that Penny gets her mom's lap. Penny is totally rubbing it in too. Bitches LOL


Well that explains a lot! Penny taking liberties there


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Her face looks so much fuller as well. She's lookin' real fiiiiiiine!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

She doesn’t look tubby to me I must imagine she burns a lot of calories being Penny.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> Well that explains a lot! Penny taking liberties there


She definitely was! But to be fair, it is her house (though not her mom)!



Sarah H said:


> Her face looks so much fuller as well. She's lookin' real fiiiiiiine!


I thought so too and then thought I was crazy. But it does look different to me. I started noticing about a week after we got her that her eyes weren't quite as buggy, sticking out and I chalked it up to having been dehydrated (It was August in the southeast).



Boxer123 said:


> She doesn't look tubby to me I must imagine she burns a lot of calories being Penny.


She really does little meth puppy. But she sleeps hard too


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I've debated whether to post these because they look scary and people love to judge (particularly dogs who look like Bates) but I feel it's important to show the full picture of reality so here goes.

Actually, it's just the first one that looks scary, I'm sharing the second to show what an instigator Penny is. She is initiating this play, if she didn't like it, she wouldn't be initiating these interactions so often.

In the first one, even though she looks horrified, she jumps right back to Bates and wants more. Also note how careful Bates is being with his bite pressure. Dogs have an amazing capacity to control their mouths (or should). I liken it to human hands. We can be incredibly gentle with our grip and do delicate fine motor stuff, or can knock someone out with a punch - well some of us can LOL. Bates is no different. He can kill a critter in one chomp, or he can gently put Penny's head in his mouth in play.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

She really likes the attention she’s getting from Bates, it’s like she’s saying ‘do it again’ until he gets bored.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

These two are just so cute looks like Penny has bought out Bates playful side. I have a picture somewhere of puppy Loki with his whole head in Sox mouth.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> I've debated whether to post these because they look scary and people love to judge (particularly dogs who look like Bates) but I feel it's important to show the full picture of reality so here goes.
> 
> Actually, it's just the first one that looks scary, I'm sharing the second to show what an instigator Penny is. She is initiating this play, if she didn't like it, she wouldn't be initiating these interactions so often.
> 
> In the first one, even though she looks horrified, she jumps right back to Bates and wants more. Also note how careful Bates is being with his bite pressure. Dogs have an amazing capacity to control their mouths (or should). I liken it to human hands. We can be incredibly gentle with our grip and do delicate fine motor stuff, or can knock someone out with a punch - well some of us can LOL. Bates is no different. He can kill a critter in one chomp, or he can gently put Penny's head in his mouth in play.


I can see why you hesitated before posting, but I was expecting a lot worse, TBH. Penny obviously trusts Bates, and while I did notice the whale eye, like you said, she went straight back for more.

2 very good friends playing bitey face


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I think Penny’s ‘whale eye’ is just her playing possum.

And Bates fell for it...


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Siskin said:


> She really likes the attention she's getting from Bates, it's like she's saying 'do it again' until he gets bored.


She does love any attention from Bates, it's really ridiculous how utterly devoted she is to him. She's not like this with other dogs at all, just him. I think he was her first safe space in the craziness of her prior life and he's so tolerant and patient it has just grown from there.



LinznMilly said:


> Penny obviously trusts Bates, and while I did notice the whale eye, like you said, she went straight back for more.


 The whale eye actually cracked me up because she's totally faking, but can you imagine if I posted a still photo of just her looking horrified at him? So I guess the video version is better because you can see her go right back to him 



Linda Weasel said:


> I think Penny's 'whale eye' is just her playing possum.
> 
> And Bates fell for it...


Yep  I'm glad someone else sees it that way too. That's my interpretation, she 'fakes' being totally intimidated by him as part of the game they play (I think he's in on it too). He pretends to kill her, she pretends to be dead LOL


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> The whale eye actually cracked me up *because she's totally faking*


Yup, I got that.


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Lovely to see them playing like that, such a huge amount of trust from Penny and control from Bates. 

Looked like Penny was receiving some new type of massage, we had the fish sucking toes craze, could we have the 'dog bitey face' massage?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> Looked like Penny was receiving some new type of massage, we had the fish sucking toes craze, could we have the 'dog bitey face' massage?


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I'm putting this here so I can look back and remember. 
Nov. 24 I started transfering Penny's sit cue from a hand cue to a verbal "sit". Yesterday she sat without a hand cue. 10 days.

It takes as long as it takes.

Bates has been able to transfer cues in one session sometimes in as little as 3 repetitions. One time he was in a theatre production of Oliver as Bill Sikes' dog. At one point he was to run off the stage, up the theatre isle, through the lobby, and back down the other isle, in to the wings with the children chasing him. We had it figured out - I would visually cue him from the lobby to run off the stage and then send him down the other isle. We rehearsed it multiple times, went great. 
Dress rehearsal night, lights and sound going, we realized that with the stage lights on and the house lights off, he couldn't see me to know when to come. Visual cue wasn't going to work. Did some quick thinking and figured out that if I tapped the floor with a broomstick he could feel that through the floor and didn't have to rely on sight. Took him 3 reps to learn the new cue. Opening night and the subsequent performances, he nailed it with the new cue.

Meanwhile, it takes Penny 10 days of 2 or 3 sessions a day to figure out the verbal cue for sit  
Granted I'm not being entirely fair. Once she starts getting the idea of transfering cues, she will generalize more and more and I anticipate the next time will be quicker and the next time quicker than that. 
And that's the cool thing about training using operant conditioning (clicker/marker). The more you train, the better the dog gets at understanding the whole system, and the faster they learn new things and generalize behavior. While it may take us 10 days to get a cue for sit now, give it a few years and we'll be learning multiple step behaviors in one session.

If you're watching collies or GSDs with veteran trainers breeze through complex behaviors while you're still struggling to get your hound to understand the basics, and getting frustrated, remember this 

Every dog is very different and there is no rule for how long it should take a dog to learn something. They learn it when they learn it.

I like watching her wheels turn  In the second video, notice the first sit she looks at me waiting for the visual cue. It doesn't come, so she sits. The second sit she doesn't have to look at me, she has figured out that the noise I make means the same thing as the hand signal.


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Oh, bless her, she's getting there . 

Bodmin seems to respond quicker with some behaviours when I give a visual cue, so, I'll ask him to sit, wait - no sit - hand cue - he sits. He will sit from just the verbal cue, just takes him longer to do it (unless he knows I have something he really wants - then he's always quick ). Same with down. I was very surprised when I tried a distance sit (end of 10m lead), out in the woods, he was sniffing around, said 'sit' and he sat. I wasn't really expecting him to, especially in the woods. Seems that he'll respond to 'sit' at times when I know he wouldn't respond to any other attempt to get his attention. After he sat, I asked him to wait and he did - until I reached him and rewarded him handsomely. It's something I'm going to try and build on.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LittleMow said:


> Oh, bless her, she's getting there .
> 
> Bodmin seems to respond quicker with some behaviours when I give a visual cue, so, I'll ask him to sit, wait - no sit - hand cue - he sits. He will sit from just the verbal cue, just takes him longer to do it (unless he knows I have something he really wants - then he's always quick ). Same with down. I was very surprised when I tried a distance sit (end of 10m lead), out in the woods, he was sniffing around, said 'sit' and he sat. I wasn't really expecting him to, especially in the woods. Seems that he'll respond to 'sit' at times when I know he wouldn't respond to any other attempt to get his attention. After he sat, I asked him to wait and he did - until I reached him and rewarded him handsomely. It's something I'm going to try and build on.


Yep, that's all proofing 
So he knows the verbal cue, you just have to proof it and make if more reliable.

Penny is still not 100% on the verbal cue, if I'm a certain distance she's still not sure and I have to add the visual, but she'll get there.
And the cool thing about proofing is that the more you do it the better they get at it. It will take us a while to proof sit from a distance and to stay sitting until I release her, but once I have sit, down will come faster, then other cues she will learn faster still.

Penny starts a Control Unleashed class Dec 21st and that will help with a lot of proofing also. Though depending on how scary she finds it all, I may not be able to do much other than desensitization.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I remember being asked by Ian Dunbar (name dropping but these experts were much more accessible when they first started out) if my dog knew ‘sit’ and I said yes.

So he asked me to lie on the ground and say ‘sit’, I did it and my dog didn’t sit.

I think he said I should draw my own conclusions from that....


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> I remember being asked by Ian Dunbar (name dropping but these experts were much more accessible when they first started out) if my dog knew 'sit' and I said yes.
> 
> So he asked me to lie on the ground and say 'sit', I did it and my dog didn't sit.
> 
> I think he said I should draw my own conclusions from that....


Ha ha! My trainer used to have a yearly "your dog don't know sit" competition and she would have us do things like that. Face away from the dog and say sit, stand in a chair and say sit, lie down and say sit (that one was always funny because all the goldens and labs always wanted to come attack the handler with kisses  ). It's always a fun time, and a fun way to highlight the importance of proofing.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

When Loki had his op all we could do was training to keep him busy. My sister stayed home whilst I worked I’d come in to ‘look at what he can do ! ‘ of course different context he couldn’t do it.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

New “don’t shoot me” orange coat seems as good a time as any for a photo dump


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> New "don't shoot me" orange coat seems as good a time as any for a photo dump


I was just thinking of this thread the other day. 

She really suits that coat.  Can't play Where's Penny?  but it looks good on her. . .

Now if she could please have a word with Honey about how warm such "torture chambers" keep her, I'd be much obliged.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

You can definitely spot her now! Love her new coat


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

That last picture is beautiful.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Can't play Where's Penny?


Game is still on 
Try this one











Boxer123 said:


> That last picture is beautiful.


I've been playing with portrait mode on the phone camera


















I still think she's kind of funny looking, but I lurves her anyway


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

You look like you are having lots of fun with her.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Game is still on
> Try this one
> View attachment 457571
> 
> ...


First pic: Found her! 

Love the pics.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> You look like you are having lots of fun with her.


She's a really fun little dog!

We start class Monday and we'll probably both be traumatized from that :Hilarious
If I could just keep her at home in the woods she'd be fine, but I want her to be able to do *all the things* so hopefully this will head us in that direction.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Peep-oh! 
She really does blend in with the undergrowth at the moment


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Siskin said:


> Peep-oh!
> She really does blend in with the undergrowth at the moment


It's crazy how perfectly camouflaged she is! Even in the summer she was hard to spot. She's a little Appalachian terrier


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## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Great coat, really suits her , she really is a gorgeous dog. Lovely to see her on her great adventure. 

Look forward to hearing how you both get on at training 

Oh and I found her


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Took me farrrr to long to find her! Should have scrolled a bit further :Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

First class tonight, and again Penny surprised me. 
There are 5 other dogs in the class, all very active, distractible dogs. The class is based off the exercises in Control Unleashed, so it's geared towards reactive and easily distracted dogs. Penny is not exactly the demographic there but it's a good class for her in that she gets her own space and the instructor knows me and my dogs really well (she's an old friend) so the idea was if all Penny can do is sit there and take treats, call it a win. 

We didn't think she would get to the point of taking treats the first night, and honestly I thought I might even be going in and out to keep her stress levels manageable, but as usual I underestimated her. She not only started taking treats but even got brave enough to wander about a bit and check things out. So that was awesome for the first night. I even got her at one point interested enough in doing a few hand touches. So able to take treats, respond to cues, all very good. 

I came in and for about 15 minutes she just sat in my lap watching, shaking on and off. I did some long, slow massage type work on her, talked to her, praised her for any type of interest in what was going on (curiosity is good), and she slowly calmed down and got a little more curious. 
By the end of class she was able to walk around and look for treats in her 'area' - every dog is closed off in an 8X15 ish rectangle with ring gates so they can see each other, but there is a 'barrier' of sorts and buffer zone between rectangles. 

All in all I was very pleased. 

She came home and jumped on Bates' head and has been a total meth puppy so she definitely had some stress to blow off. She should sleep well tonight LOL!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Merry Christmas Eve and Happy Holiday Season from best dog and demon puppy


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Back up - what is the hand tattoo?


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I hope you all have a lovely Xmas.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> I hope you all have a lovely Xmas.


Thank you! You too 



JoanneF said:


> Back up - what is the hand tattoo?


OH has a bee and thistle on his hand


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> thistle


 is there a Scottish connection?


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Wishing you & your family a Merry Christmas.
To the most handsomest Bates, be a good boy & I'm sure momma will give you some turkey.
To little meth puppy Penny, just carry on being you, you gorgeous, crazy, lovely little girl xx


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ebonycat said:


> Wishing you & your family a Merry Christmas.
> To the most handsomest Bates, be a good boy & I'm sure momma will give you some turkey.
> To little meth puppy Penny, just carry on being you, you gorgeous, crazy, lovely little girl xx


How lovely! Merry Christmas to you too 



JoanneF said:


> is there a Scottish connection?


There is - not living that we know of, but according to ancestry.com he's mostly Scottish (explains a lot about him :Hilarious )


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> How lovely! Merry Christmas to you too
> 
> There is - not living that we know of, but according to ancestry.com he's mostly Scottish (explains a lot about him :Hilarious )


Now, now, careful here, you're talking to someone whose mainly Scots


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Siskin said:


> Now, now, careful here, you're talking to someone whose mainly Scots


Apparently I married one! He's definitely got some Viking traits in there :Hilarious Son even more so! 

Back to Penny 
Class last night went well. She's still too worried about, well, everything to fully participate in class, but she did a great job searching for treats in her area, and even managed a little of the "look at that" game.
Major success she was able to walk in and out of the building on her own without me having to carry her. I don't *have* to carry her, but she likes the security and I have no patience. (I'm working on it.)

It's funny the other class participants (human variety) except one don't know me and I think look at me like I'm some frou frou dog owner who carries her dog everywhere and just sits there with the dog in her lap not even participating in class. Doesn't bother me, it's just amusing because of the totally different impression they would have if I had Bates in that class back in his young and stupid years.
I'm seriously considering bringing Bates as Penny's emotional support dog one of these days :Hilarious:Hilarious

And a video for today just cause


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

You will have the last laugh eventually.

I was once ‘judged’ by an ex-army instructor who was assessing dogs for his classes. We’d never met before and all he ‘saw’ was a dopey woman with a presumably spoiled little Spaniel.

He said ‘Show me what she can do, then’ in a bored voice: So I did.

And for the only time in her life she didn’t put a foot wrong. She was stunning (I was stunned, anyway). We did every obedience exercise known to man, and even threw in some dancing tricks, and she was faultless.

Normally I wouldn’t have dreamed of showing off like this, but his attitude made me really cross; he’d judged us both before we so much as moved a leg or a foot.

His face was a picture. It was the stuff that dreams are made of.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> You will have the last laugh eventually.
> 
> I was once 'judged' by an ex-army instructor who was assessing dogs for his classes. We'd never met before and all he 'saw' was a dopey woman with a presumably spoiled little Spaniel.
> 
> ...


Oh I bet!!  
Those are the best moments. I swear dogs just know. When you're trying to show off for your own ego they're like 'nah, ego check day today' but when it matters, they've got ya


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Haven't updated in a while so as payment here's a video of Penny being a ridiculous terrier:





And a video of her letting me know her opinion about going outside to pee before bed (you'll want to turn the volume on). 





She has an adorable repertoire of noises, squeaks, whines, barks, grumbles, snorts and sighs that she is not at all shy about using to train her humans and try to get Bates to play.

We went to our next-to-last class last night, she is steadily doing better and better, able to do most of the exercises, and function which is great and really the main reason I signed her up. It's a very controlled setting, no one will approach her uninvited, she doesn't have to interact with anyone, just has to be in the building and noticing the sights, sounds, movements etc. Each class she gets a little more confident, last night she walked in the building in front of me, which was huge. Eat your heart out dominance theory, my dog walked through a door before me and I called that a win! 

I purchased a book mentioned on another thread - Hunting Together by Simone Mueller and have been applying the principles to my outings with Penny. It's all stuff I did before, but without as much purpose and guidance. She continues to do very well on recall, even calling away from having her head in a hole and chasing the cat. (The one she does chase, the other one is smart enough not to run.)

We had a positive outing a few days ago, several people at a small family farm. She got to see goats, baby goats froliking (squeee!!!), pigs, the farm dogs, and the only scary thing in all that - people! The people were awesome, did not approach her, let her approach them, which she did - huge improvement. All in all she's doing great.

Oh and she even let me dremel ONE nail the other day. I did have to hold her down, but I touched the nail with the dremel running, then had a massive party, and it was all over so fast she forgot she was supposed to be scared, and decided the party part was fun. She even forgot she doesn't like the dremel and went to check it out more thoroughly. 
Basically if there's fun and food involved I can generally use that to outweigh the fear, and I can totally work with that


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Love her she did not want to go to the toilet.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Hunting Together by Simone Mueller


Simone works from the training centre I (occasionally now) use


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Simone works from the training centre I (occasionally now) use


Oh how cool!! 
Please tell her I have thoroughly enjoyed her book and after years of being met with scepticism and debate (interesting and helpful debate, mind) about teaching my own dog to chase on cue, I now have a much clearer picture of the whole process, why it worked, and how to be much more purposeful and effective about 'hunting together'.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Love her she did not want to go to the toilet.


No she did not LOL 

She is go go go most of the day but when she is done for the day, she is done and does not appreciate getting out of a nice warm cuddle spot to go out in the cold to wee! It's a good thing she's portable sized!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> No she did not LOL
> 
> She is go go go most of the day but when she is done for the day, she is done and does not appreciate getting out of a nice warm cuddle spot to go out in the cold to wee! It's a good thing she's portable sized!


She reminds me of lily she used to almost sing to me when she wanted something a little howl.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Took Penny to the feed store last night to pick up some dog food and pizzles. 
She hasn't been with me to the store in a while, and I was pleasantly shocked at the difference between her last visit where I had to carry her in because the door and threshold into an inside space was too scary and last night where not only did she waltz right in with minimal prompting, but was interested enough in the smells to check things out, even the nice attendant who helped us! She still had her tail down and was definitely unsure, but completely different dog from the last time she went. 

Sometimes progress is so subtle that you don't notice it every day, or if you do you think it's wishful thinking, but last night was dramatic and there was no question she is definitely getting braver


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Well done Penny! And you. @O2.0 .


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

To borrow a Britishism, I'm pretty chuffed with her  
It's hard to imagine the dog who pancakes herself to the floor in a new environment eventually turning in to this new dog who waltzes in to a building on her own and is confident enough to go check out the nice smells, and yet here she is  
The resilience of dogs will never cease to amaze me!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

We finished our Control Unleashed class, her focus on me is pretty awesome, much of it is natural to her, but with every dog I get better and better at building a foundation too. The class definitely helped and I'm very happy with where she's at. She's even offering a few steps of a beautiful engaged heel. I've never 'captured' a heel position but she does do it spontaneously, so I've been marking and rewarding it. We'll see. I'm not in a hurry to compete with any dog, but I do love training.

And can we talk about little muscle mass dog? Look at her! 





Yes, that was supposed to be bedtime. As you see, she was exhausted and ready for bed


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> We finished our Control Unleashed class, her focus on me is pretty awesome, much of it is natural to her, but with every dog I get better and better at building a foundation too. The class definitely helped and I'm very happy with where she's at. She's even offering a few steps of a beautiful engaged heel. I've never 'captured' a heel position but she does do it spontaneously, so I've been marking and rewarding it. We'll see. I'm not in a hurry to compete with any dog, but I do love training.
> 
> And can we talk about little muscle mass dog? Look at her!
> 
> ...


Practically falling asleep on the spot. :Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Penny photodump  
A couple "find the dog" photos and a couple tree climbing monkey dog photos. We went to the nearby state park today, she's so much better about less familiar places. I still have to pick her up when people approach because she still wants to run away, but she's getting there  
I felt comfortable letting her off leash a little bit when we were in the more secluded part of the park.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Penny photodump
> A couple "find the dog" photos and a couple tree climbing monkey dog photos. We went to the nearby state park today, she's so much better about less familiar places. I still have to pick her up when people approach because she still wants to run away, but she's getting there
> I felt comfortable letting her off leash a little bit when we were in the more secluded part of the park.
> 
> ...


Ahhh! Thanks for my Penny fix.

Found her in all of them pretty quickly.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Had a long morning out today visiting my park ranger friend. Went to a different part of the park and we passed *three* sets of people without having to pick Penny up!! I was so proud. 
I did pick her up for the family with 4 children, one of which was a screaming toddler and two very young lab puppies. I didn't give her an option on that one. I saw them in the distance, heard the baby screaming, got closer and saw there were two puppies and though, nope, not a good training opportunity, more of a get out of here as fast as possible opportunity. Yikes! 
Penny did some schmoozing inside the park office, she was nervous at first but managed walk up to two rangers and smell their boots. Park rangers are awesome people who will just stand there and ignore the dog which was exactly what she needed. 
All in all an awesome outing. Very proud of the little monster.



















This is for all the people who say girl dogs don't mark. This is my *spayed* female dog 


















And this is Penny being Penny. There are stairs as you can see. But she would rather rock climb.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Had a long morning out today visiting my park ranger friend. Went to a different part of the park and we passed *three* sets of people without having to pick Penny up!! I was so proud.
> I did pick her up for the family with 4 children, one of which was a screaming toddler and two very young lab puppies. I didn't give her an option on that one. I saw them in the distance, heard the baby screaming, got closer and saw there were two puppies and though, nope, not a good training opportunity, more of a get out of here as fast as possible opportunity. Yikes!
> Penny did some schmoozing inside the park office, she was nervous at first but managed walk up to two rangers and smell their boots. Park rangers are awesome people who will just stand there and ignore the dog which was exactly what she needed.
> All in all an awesome outing. Very proud of the little monster.
> ...


Well done Penny brave girl ! The boxers say it's good to see her doing the pee mail.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> The boxers say it's good to see her doing the pee mail.


:Hilarious
She pees like a girl at home but away from home she marks. Cracks me up. Particularly when I read threads about how some might prefer a girl dog because they don't mark like boys do. 
Yeah... mine didn't get that memo. She even cocks her leg


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> :Hilarious
> She pees like a girl at home but away from home she marks. Cracks me up. Particularly when I read threads about how some might prefer a girl dog because they don't mark like boys do.
> Yeah... mine didn't get that memo. She even cocks her leg


That photo did make me laugh.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

Good girl Penny, Belle used to make me laugh cocking her leg against a tree to wee. Once she tried to mount a bemused Suzie!


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## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

Aww she’s a great wee dog, she’s full of personality.  My boy still pees like a girl at home and only lifts his leg when out ( must be in case the other dogs make fun of him )


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Nicola234 said:


> Aww she's a great wee dog, she's full of personality.  My boy still pees like a girl at home and only lifts his leg when out ( must be in case the other dogs make fun of him )


She's a mess  But we definitely enjoy her.


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## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

O2.0 said:


> She's a mess  But we definitely enjoy her.


Haha she's great


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Some Penny ridiculousness for you!

She's progressing well with walking between my legs, she's antsy pants so she gets ahead of me easily, but we're working it out. She has a ton of cues now, not all proofed to the level I would like, but she's super easy to train new things so she knows a lot. The kids are teaching her "high five" where she jumps up and puts her front paws on their hand. Very cute 

Her recall is also going well.

Not so well is not biting the hand that feeds you  and I've just realized I haven't taught her much duration with sit and down so I need to work on that and a decent stay.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

Love her


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

The love story continues  
It's almost time to get those pineapple plants back outside!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> View attachment 463866
> 
> 
> View attachment 463867
> ...


----------



## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> View attachment 463866
> 
> 
> View attachment 463867
> ...


Do you manage to get fruit from those plants, and are they sweet?


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Had a long morning out today visiting my park ranger friend. Went to a different part of the park and we passed *three* sets of people without having to pick Penny up!! I was so proud.
> I did pick her up for the family with 4 children, one of which was a screaming toddler and two very young lab puppies. I didn't give her an option on that one. I saw them in the distance, heard the baby screaming, got closer and saw there were two puppies and though, nope, not a good training opportunity, more of a get out of here as fast as possible opportunity. Yikes!
> Penny did some schmoozing inside the park office, she was nervous at first but managed walk up to two rangers and smell their boots. Park rangers are awesome people who will just stand there and ignore the dog which was exactly what she needed.
> All in all an awesome outing. Very proud of the little monster.
> ...


Honey's the opposite to Penny - she prefers the steps. Milly climbs a grassy bank. Honey will go round and use the steps - every time. :Hilarious



O2.0 said:


> She pees like a girl at home but away from home she marks. Cracks me up. Particularly when I read threads about how some might prefer a girl dog because they don't mark like boys do.
> Yeah... mine didn't get that memo. She even cocks her leg


Yeah, Honey cocks her leg and scent marks too.  I seem to recall my bro was very bemused when he first saw that. 
"She cocked her leg!"
"Yup. She does that."
"But . . . She's a bitch."
"Yup, I know."
"She's confused."
"...Probably."
 :Hilarious


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Do you manage to get fruit from those plants, and are they sweet?


No they haven't borne fruit yet. They'll be 3 years old this summer, so we'll see this year or next. Apparently they die after blooming, so I'm kind of sad about that. But I have two more going that are only a year old.



LinznMilly said:


> "She cocked her leg!"
> "Yup. She does that."
> "But . . . She's a bitch."


LOL yep  So much for "bitches don't scent mark" not only do they, some even cock their leg!



Boxer123 said:


> That first picture is gorgeous.


Someone said "his head looks so big next to her" and I'm thinking, his head IS big compared to her! :Hilarious


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Lots of fun tonight. 
I'll start with the possum. Mr. or Mrs. possum came to visit again, and it was light enough out that I could film. Turns out I have the rarest of terriers - one with a sense of self-preservation! 





This was earlier in the day, Penny climbing trees. Notice how she answers me at the end :Hilarious:Hilarious





And some actual training, bad video, sorry, but you see how well she's doing walking between my feet  





This one is long and kind of boring, but a good example of how praising the "chase" works. By telling her she's a good girl, it basically tells her she can be done too. And makes me an accomplice in her hunting instead of an annoying stop to her hunting. It's crazy how this works, but as you can see, it does!


----------



## DaisyBluebell (Apr 14, 2017)

Brilliant, loving watching the little video's of her.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Lots of fun tonight.
> I'll start with the possum. Mr. or Mrs. possum came to visit again, and it was light enough out that I could film. Turns out I have the rarest of terriers - one with a sense of self-preservation!
> 
> 
> ...


That last video wasn't boring in the least. I loved all of them.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> That last video wasn't boring in the least. I loved all of them.


I'm shocked someone actually listened to my annoying voice with the bad audio! 

She's a mess, but I lurve her :Kiss
She's so proud of her possum hunting skills!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Penny had an exciting afternoon yesterday, we went to a soccer game  

She started out sitting in my lap just taking it all in, then she got braver, a young boy sitting behind us asked if he could say hi and she approached him!!! The little boy fed her treats and she took them and had a lovely positive experience. 
Then we saw even more young kids, more treats, and Penny decided young kids are pretty cool. They're not big and scary like adults, and they seem to have all the treats! 
Then we went on to the field and saw some co-workers who she has met before and she was brave again, then a coworkers very young son wanted to pet her and got to feed her treats too which he thought was the coolest thing ever, and he and Penny had a great old time hanging out. 

So now Penny likes kids


----------



## Silverpaw (May 8, 2019)

Wow, she's beautiful.Clever,brave girl.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

She a beautiful girl love her ears.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Is it just me, or is the chihuahua that I originally saw in her totally gone now?


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Penny had an exciting afternoon yesterday, we went to a soccer game
> 
> She started out sitting in my lap just taking it all in, then she got braver, a young boy sitting behind us asked if he could say hi and she approached him!!! The little boy fed her treats and she took them and had a lovely positive experience.
> Then we saw even more young kids, more treats, and Penny decided young kids are pretty cool. They're not big and scary like adults, and they seem to have all the treats!
> ...


Well done Penny.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Love hearing about Penny’s adventures.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I swear that, without the distraction of the ears, (and the size) she looks like a Spaniel!!

edit: That’s the size of Penny, not the size of the ears. I could have made that clearer but it’s late and I have a dog who wants to go to bed in my face.

I just made it worse, give up.


----------



## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

She’s a clever girl  I think she still has the chihuahua ears but her face doesn’t look like a chihuahua


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> I swear that, without the distraction of the ears, (and the size) she looks like a Spaniel!!
> 
> edit: That's the size of Penny, not the size of the ears. I could have made that clearer but it's late and I have a dog who wants to go to bed in my face.
> 
> I just made it worse, give up.


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious

That made me laugh  
The size of her ears IS a distraction LOL! 
Now that you say it though, I do see the spaniel thing that you mean.
She's a solid little lump these days too, she has put on a ton of muscle, when she's tugging she looks like a pocket sized pittie ha ha! 
I still think she mostly looks like she was assembled by a bunch of mis-matched discarded dog parts


----------



## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

How sweet taking Penny to football. All good learning, she looks mesmerised.

Daisy absolutely loves children, not so much adults.

It reminded me of when I took my JR Merlin to a indoor horse showing show. Having horses myself I didn't it would be a problem but boy was I wrong. I put him on my lap and he started an excited whimpering as the horses took their turns to trot round. This very quickly escalated into full on howling with all eyes on us and not the show. I was very quickly asked to leave. :Shamefullyembarrased

We stuck to outdoor shows after that.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I made a serious error in judgement and allowed myself to get sucked down a youtube rabbit hole with some very popular and IMHO very not good trainers and it made me sad, it made me frustrated, it made me annoyed. 
So in the spirit of shut up and train, I did just that. 

Penny has started offering a rudimentary heel so I've been trying to build on it. It's friggin adorable like everything she does 





One thing I realize I've failed to mention or emphasize enough if I did mention it, is building drive for whatever rewards you're using.

If you look back on earlier videos, Penny is pretty cautious about taking treats from me, and I often have to offer them with an open palm so she can take it carefully out of my hand. 
If you look at recent videos, she shoves her nose in to my closed fingers and snarfs the treat away. This is not by accident or even a natural progression, this is deliberate on my part. I *want* her to be pushy and drivey about treats.
Don't get me wrong, she can also be sweet and gentle with offered food, she will very carefully lick a treat out of a toddler's hand, but when we train, I want that determination to get the treat because it builds motivation for the behavior that produced the treat.

This is something we often overlook. It's not just about rewarding your dog, but building value and drive for those rewards.
And with a dog like Penny who was so cautious of humans to begin with, it is even more important to build that drive. 
So with Penny, that meant sometimes tossing treats and having her run them down, from there I can make the hand with the treat move away and encourage her to 'chase' my hand. I also encouraged her to 'root' into my hand to get the treat, this too builds drive. Easy food is boring, food you have to work for is always more interesting and more valuable. But you have to do it carefully, too hard right off the bat, and they lose confidence. You build it up. 
I'm also a big believer in competition, if I give Bates a treat, that makes Penny want a treat more. Obviously you use this tactic judiciously and with good knowledge of your dogs!

I also had to teach her about luring. Again, this is not something a lot of dogs do naturally, particularly not fearful dogs, you have to slowly build it up in small increments and help them feel successful.


----------



## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

I agree with not following trainers every step, it definitely depends on the dog! I was one of the crazies lying on the ground pointing out rabbit holes to my terriers to keep them engaged lol


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Nicola234 said:


> I agree with not following trainers every step, it definitely depends on the dog! I was one of the crazies lying on the ground pointing out rabbit holes to my terriers to keep them engaged lol


If you can get a terrier away from a rabbit hole you win!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Some more heeling


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> Some more heeling


Very good


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Some more heeling


She's coming on brilliantly.


----------



## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

Happy to send my two to you :Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ShibaPup said:


> Happy to send my two to you :Hilarious


LOL I would steal Lily in a second  
Zazu still needs to prove himself, but he's pretty darned cute, but you know what a soft spot I have for your little brown girl :Kiss


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> She's coming on brilliantly.


Not bad for a little swamp rat meth puppy :Happy
I wasn't intending to teach her a formal heel, but she kept offering it, and I figured I might as well do something with it, and here it is!
She still doesn't have a reliable down or any approximation of a stay. But a lovely bouncy, head-up heel LOL. 
The only way I get get any semblance of a stay out of her is either if she's between my legs, or on a platform. Any other scenario and she rushes to get near me. Not a huge problem in most situations but it's going to be a headache to train if I ever do anything competitive with her.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

A little over 7 months now  
Latest breakthroughs are dremel is no longer a scary thing, and we're starting to figure out platform work. 
Little monster thinks she's so smart


----------



## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

She’s such a little superstar!


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I wonder what her previous owners would say if they could see her now (making the assumption they have verbal communication, but you know what I mean).


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> I wonder what her previous owners would say if they could see her now (making the assumption they have verbal communication, but you know what I mean).


I hadn't thought of that... 
IME the average mouth breather toss em on a chain owner doesn't see the same things we do. I don't know if they'd find her as cute as we do?

I do know that even the average Joe dog owner doesn't see the value in behaviors like putting feet up on a platform, and therefore don't find it very impressive. I'm always interested in the things non dog obsessed people find 'cool'. Bates previous owners never understood his obedience behaviors though they always thought it was cool when he got ribbons. To this day they don't see the connection between him behaving better and having a 'job'.

She's still a little busy pest always pestering me to do something LOL so I'm sure a lot of owners would find that annoying. It doesn't bother me, I like busy dogs  
And to be fair, this morning it's miserable out, stormy and thundery and wet. She peed and climbed back in bed with OH :Hilarious:Hilarious
So she's not entirely without sense!


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> IME the average mouth breather toss em on a chain owner doesn't see the same things we do. I don't know if they'd find her as cute as we do?


Their loss, our gain.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> Their loss, our gain.


Absolutely! One man's trash is another man's treasure


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Absolutely! One man's trash is another man's treasure


I shouldn't say this really but I do have a very detailed mental image; without sharing too much, the soundtrack of duelling banjos is playing ...


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> I shouldn't say this really but I do have a very detailed mental image; without sharing too much, the soundtrack of duelling banjos is playing ...


LOL!
I jokingly call her meth puppy because I always figured it was some meth cooking operation she escaped from, we have a couple of those hidden out in remote areas around her. You find out about them when they blow themselves up 
But she's likely some hunting dog offspring - the only thing I know for sure is that she was on a chain, well technically a wire tie-out - I found that style of tie-out at our local WalMart in the dog section


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I love it when she goes and sits in a beautiful close heel position like 'we did this the other day, can I get some chicken for this?'


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> I love it when she goes and sits in a beautiful close heel position like 'we did this the other day, can I get some chicken for this?'


I do to  She's happy to offer behaviors and that makes me happy. Huge difference from when I first started teaching her the clicker game


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

@Sarah H you inspired me to look back on teaching Penny to even offer behaviors, and look. I took this calm little demure puppy and turned her in to this whirling dervish :Hilarious

This was August 25th - 10 days after I caught her





Versus March 25th


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> @Sarah H you inspired me to look back on teaching Penny to even offer behaviors, and look. I took this calm little demure puppy and turned her in to this whirling dervish :Hilarious
> 
> This was August 25th - 10 days after I caught her
> 
> ...


She's certainly come a long way.  Is that her barking in the second video? If so, she's got a louder bark than I expected for such a smol dog.

Behaviourally, she reminds me of Milly - always ready to offer behaviours in the hopes of a reward, and as you say, always "busy."


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Oh wow look at the difference!! Love that her confidence has done a total flip and she's now happy to offer stuff rather than just worrying about what you are asking her to do!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> Love that her confidence has done a total flip and she's now happy to offer stuff rather than just worrying about what you are asking her to do!


I love it too  It's a great testament to clicker training too. Once they get it, it really helps build their confidence.



LinznMilly said:


> Is that her barking in the second video?


No, that's Bates' whiney protest bark. He's mad that I made him go lie down and not participate in the training. I also think he finds it annoying that Penny isn't doing it right, and he knows how to get up on a platform TYVM so just move and let me do it. :Hilarious

If you watch this clip to the end, you can see Bates general attitude to Penny's shenanigans  

__
http://instagr.am/p/CM5lk1Xhpyv/


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Posted with Bates and Penny in mind I'm sure Bates must have passed on this piece of information to Penny,


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Magyarmum said:


> Posted with Bates and Penny in mind I'm sure Bates must have passed on this piece of information to Penny,


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
I would hope! But Bates is not known for discernment when it comes to trespassing woodland creatures!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Perch training is going well, and as you can see, there are no resource guarding issues. Penny now gets her antler and plops in Bates chest safe-spot to chew it. 
He's not entirely impressed, but every puppy he has raised has loved sitting in that same spot between his chest and legs. :Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Perch training is going well, and as you can see, there are no resource guarding issues. Penny now gets her antler and plops in Bates chest safe-spot to chew it.
> He's not entirely impressed, but every puppy he has raised has loved sitting in that same spot between his chest and legs. :Shamefullyembarrased
> 
> View attachment 465307
> ...


Those pics just make me smile. So sweet.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Those pics just make me smile. So sweet.


I'm glad  
These two make me smile a lot too, glad to share the joy!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

More smiles


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> More smiles


Some posts you just _know_ you're going to like. I was smiling before I even hit Play. 

And thanks, cos I needed that.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Some posts you just _know_ you're going to like. I was smiling before I even hit Play.
> 
> And thanks, cos I needed that.


I hate you're having a day where you need a smile, but glad to be able to provide it


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

And now we have a rudimentary pivot


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Look how her body condition has come along. This last video really shows it.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Very nice!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> Very nice!


Thank you!
The first time I trained a pivot, I did one side at a time, and it took forever to teach the second side. So now I get them both in right away and I'll sort out the kinks later.



lullabydream said:


> Look how her body condition has come along. This last video really shows it.


She's getting some junk in her trunk :Hilarious:Hilarious
But in seriousness, her rear end in particular looks completely different from when I first got her. I remember saying she was in pretty good shape for having been on her own for at least a few months, but now looking at what she's supposed to look like, she was pretty skinny and had no muscle. Granted, she also might be younger than we guesstimated and she was just a pup who is now filling in to her body... But she has definitely put on a lot of muscle. Not surprising with all the jumping, climbing and running she does. She's very speedy  
This isn't even her fastest gear!


----------



## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

She's so fully of energy, happiness and life - so infectious! 

I love your training videos - find them motivating, gives me a kick to get into gear. Sometimes I lose the motivation.

Jealous of all your beautiful scenery and land - the stuff dreams are made of, well it is for me, I live in a concrete jungle :Hilarious


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

ShibaPup said:


> She's so fully of energy, happiness and life - so infectious!
> 
> I love your training videos - find them motivating, gives me a kick to get into gear. Sometimes I lose the motivation.
> 
> Jealous of all your beautiful scenery and land - the stuff dreams are made of, well it is for me, I live in a concrete jungle :Hilarious


Aw thank you so much!!
She's so much fun to train, and she's such a pest most of the time, wanting to *do* things, training keeps my sanity too! :Hilarious
My biggest challenge is going to be getting her comfortable enough in unfamiliar places that her true personality and enthusiasm shows.


----------



## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

Can I hire you as a dog trainer when I eventually get my boy?


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

urbantigers said:


> Can I hire you as a dog trainer when I eventually get my boy?


LOL Penny (and Bates) make me look good :Angelic
One of these days I'm going to do this training thing right - with a plan and schedule and not just wing it as I go!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Find the Penny, inside and outside version 



















And some more Easter walkies photos


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

And some action views....


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Penny found a turkey feather on our walk today so we used it as an opportunity to illustrate how to take something away without creating a confrontation


----------



## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

O2.0 said:


> More smiles


Aww that made me smile too


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

urbantigers said:


> Can I hire you as a dog trainer when I eventually get my boy?


If @O2.0 wasnt in the US Loki would have turned up at her door by now with his little over night bag


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> If @O2.0 wasnt in the US Loki would have turned up at her door by now with his little over night bag


:Hilarious:Hilarious
Loki and I would get along great  Big idiot teenage boy dogs are my specialty. It's these shy little ones I struggle with! Good thing Penny has enough terrier in her to counter act the shy side!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Getting warm enough for swamp rat to reappear 
























And some more heeling progress





Her "middle" is coming along nicely too:





I love how much she loves training. Doesn't matter if we're in the middle of prime hunting territory, 9 times out of 10 if I ask her if she wants to work, she's on it. 
Gotta love a dog who loves to train like that


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I toyed around with proofing her "middle" cue and seeing how well she understands it. 
I'd say she knows it pretty well


----------



## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

She is such a superstar!


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

I love her!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

urbantigers said:


> She is such a superstar!


Thank you  She's really a blast to train, and so much fun in general. 
To be fair, she's also a total pest who doesn't give us much down time, but it's hard to say no to her with her enthusiasm for everything 



DanWalkersmum said:


> I love her!


Aw... We love her too  
Oh wait! Are we talking about loving our dogs? :Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> Thank you  She's really a blast to train, and so much fun in general.
> To be fair, she's also a total pest who doesn't give us much down time, but it's hard to say no to her with her enthusiasm for everything
> 
> Aw... We love her too
> Oh wait! Are we talking about loving our dogs? :Hilarious:Hilarious


 guilty


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Awww! Well done Little Swamp Rat Meth Puppy. :Happy (and her mum, of course).


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Not a training video today, just fun  
Kayak season is getting close. Need to hurry up and get this on a PFD so she can learn to kayak with us!


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Not a training video today, just fun
> Kayak season is getting close. Need to hurry up and get this on a PFD so she can learn to kayak with us!


I'm sure you'll get her calmed down and focussed before kayaking. Otherwise.... Good luck. :Hilarious:Hilarious :Hilarious


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> I'm sure you'll get her calmed down and focussed before kayaking. Otherwise.... Good luck. :Hilarious:Hilarious :Hilarious


I'm going to get her a life vest with a sturdy handle so I can grab her as needed LOL. 
At least she's little and *hopefully* won't capsize us with her antics. It will be an adventure for sure! :Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I'm going to get her a life vest with a sturdy handle so I can grab her as needed LOL.
> At least she's little and *hopefully* won't capsize us with her antics. It will be an adventure for sure! :Hilarious:Hilarious


Won't Bates feel left out if you leave him behind? Or are you planning on having him along for the ride too???


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Won't Bates feel left out if you leave him behind? Or are you planning on having him along for the ride too???


He's used to me taking Penny and not him. I take her to state parks and he stays home and gets a break from her :Hilarious The rest of the fam spoils him and he eats it up. 
I also take him on outings without Penny 

He's too old and rickety for long walks and definitely not kayaking. Even in his prime he was way too big to try to squeeze on to a kayak! Penny is perfect Kayak size


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> Penny is perfect Kayak size


You see? Everything happens for a reason


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

JoanneF said:


> You see? Everything happens for a reason


You just can't help the "I told you so" can you   :Hilarious

I didn't want a small dog!!!!! :Hilarious


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> You just can't help the "I told you so" can you   :Hilarious
> 
> I didn't want a small dog!!!!! :Hilarious


Zipping mouth shut but -

YES! xxx


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> You just can't help the "I told you so" can you   :Hilarious
> 
> I didn't want a small dog!!!!! :Hilarious


 Are you a small dog convert? Or still a big dog person?


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Are you a small dog convert? Or still a big dog person?


I'm a dog person 

Not gonna lie, I'm discovering the huge convenience of a portable dog, and it's undeniable.

But when the kids were growing up, wandering about exploring for hours around the property, I was glad for the big dogs who kept them company the whole time. 
And I've never worried about the safety of the big dogs. Fortunately Penny is 'street smart' and I don't worry *that* much about her safety, but like the other day I saw a big old hawk soaring above and definitely had a small 'where's Penny' panic moment.

Turns out the idiot dog came barrelling off the porch and started barking at the hawk :Hilarious


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Turns out the idiot dog came barrelling off the porch and started barking at the hawk :Hilarious


Honey would do that.  :Hilarious


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Wouldn’t you just need to bark at the hawk to let it know where you were??


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> Wouldn't you just need to bark at the hawk to let it know where you were??




To be fair, Bates hates buzzards. They have a tree near the house they love roosting in and it pisses Bates off to no end that wild critters dare park themselves that close to the house and he has always barked at buzzards. He hates them.

So the other day, it was a beautiful clear sky, Bates was outside enjoying the day, and barking at buzzards who were periodically flying by. Then one had the audacity to perch in a tree and that sent him over the edge. 
Penny was right on his heels the whole time copying his every move.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Today's outing featured a really cool, old tree 






Here it is to get a scale of the size. Bates is standing in front of it, you can't even see him. Penny is in the photo too, you might just be able to make her out climbing the trunk in the middle:









Penny found some scat, whoever deposited this could eat her up in one bite!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I thought this was cool. There's about 6 months difference between these two videos. 
Penny doesn't spend an awful lot of time on leash but a lot of what I do off leash translates to walking nicely on-leash - pay attention to where I am, keep up, and stay with me. And when she is on leash I do have some non-negotiables, like you're not going to haul me about to get to whatever strikes your fancy - as you can see in the before video, only takes a few repetitions of "no we're not going to haul me about" and that stops happening pretty quickly.

Before:





After:


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Today's outing featured a really cool, old tree
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Christ on a bike, when you panned the camera up that tree, I was crapping myself, wondering just how high up Penny was. :Hilarious :Hilarious :Hilarious Quite a relief when she appeared Stage Left with all fours on the ground. :Hilarious :Hilarious :Eggonface

Such a difference between the LLW videos.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Christ on a bike, when you panned the camera up that tree, I was crapping myself, wondering just how high up Penny was. :Hilarious :Hilarious :Hilarious Quite a relief when she appeared Stage Left with all fours on the ground. :Hilarious :Hilarious :Eggonface
> 
> Such a difference between the LLW videos.


LOL I think she would have climbed up it if she could! She has no fear of heights that's for sure!


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> To be fair, Bates hates buzzards. They have a tree near the house they love roosting in and it pisses Bates off to no end that wild critters dare park themselves that close to the house and he has always barked at buzzards. He hates them.
> 
> So the other day, it was a beautiful clear sky, Bates was outside enjoying the day, and barking at buzzards who were periodically flying by. Then one had the audacity to perch in a tree and that sent him over the edge.
> Penny was right on his heels the whole time copying his every move.


I have two wood pigeons ( known as 'Dumb' and 'Dumber'). They come several times a day to hoover up anything that the small birds drop from the feeders because they can't work out for themselves how a bird feeder operates. They also flatten any plants less than a foot tall by refusing to walk round them rather than just bulldozing over them.

Tod hates them with a vengeance and will stand on his hind legs in the garden trying to see if they're the other side of the fence; maybe they're not so dumb cos while he's doing this they watch him from the roof.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Sorry posted in wrong thread.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I did a compilation of recalls today. Recall to touch, recall to middle. 
One of these days I'm going to figure out how to call my dog and video it at the same time and keep something interesting in the picture! :Wacky






And just for fun


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> You just can't help the "I told you so" can you   :Hilarious
> 
> I didn't want a small dog!!!!! :Hilarious


Well, I wanted a small dog and got a lanky lurcher (and wouldn't change him)!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Lurcherlad said:


> Well, I wanted a small dog and got a lanky lurcher (and wouldn't change him)!


It happens. I was going to get a well-bred medium sized boy dog, then Penny showed up 
She's not well bred. 
Not medium sized. 
Not a boy.

She'll do I guess....


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Putting myself out there for this one, but in the interest of truly showcasing her progress, here is a completely unedited, start-to-stop training session. 
The goal was to teach her a spin next to me in heel position. She already knows spin while standing in front of me, so teaching her a spin while standing next to me should be an easy-ish transfer. I will eventually use it to help teach her a formal heel.

There are a lot of mistakes and bad timing on my part. I also chatter too much because I'm on video and I get nervous being filmed. 
But I do manage some decent things too. I drop back to behaviors I know she likes and feels confident about to keep her attitude good and confidence up. 
I do lose her a few times, this is not good nor bad, just the nature of training the way I do among distractions. Dogs always have the choice to opt out of training, but they also have the choice to opt in. I like that she chooses to come back pretty quickly both times.

There is no need to correct her when I lose her. One it's not going to make her want to stay with me more, two, the point is to build desire for the behavior, not just the treats as a consequence of the behavior, and being corrected is not going to help me there either. 
That said, letting her see Bates get treats is highly motivating for her, so while he is a distraction, he's also a big motivator too 

In the next few weeks and months it will be interesting to come back to this and see how she is progressing not just with the spin behavior, but with staying with me through a whole session. 
Though to be fair, some days she stays with me like glue for far longer than this. This is one of her more spacey days.

I'd love to nerd out on the training aspect here, so if anyone wants to discuss I'd love to


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Someone went to the feed store today and got to taste-test some treats 










Considering the first time I took her to the feed store she wouldn't even walk in, I'd say she's doing better, what do you think?


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## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

Excellent progress, she’s a clever girl!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Someone went to the feed store today and got to taste-test some treats
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, what you think is progress is actually regression.  

Well done, you little swamp rat meth puppy.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Nah, what you think is progress is actually regression.
> 
> Well done, you little swamp rat meth puppy.


You know, I do have to laugh. 
Part of her progression to being okay with the world includes 'problem' behaviors. 
Like when she first came, she didn't make a peep in the house, then she went through a phase of being brave enough to bark at things she wasn't sure of. Then she progressed to only alert barking. Now she only alert barks at the important stuff, like if one of our cars comes up the driveway, she doesn't bark, she only barks for cars we don't know.

So the barking appeared and then pretty much all went away with no specific work on barking on our part, just her learning that things are okay. It's fascinating to watch! 
But yeah, there is definitely a lot of seemingly steps back when watching a dog like Penny grow in to who she's supposed to be


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> You know, I do have to laugh.
> Part of her progression to being okay with the world includes 'problem' behaviors.
> Like when she first came, she didn't make a peep in the house, then she went through a phase of being brave enough to bark at things she wasn't sure of. Then she progressed to only alert barking. Now she only alert barks at the important stuff, like if one of our cars comes up the driveway, she doesn't bark, she only barks for cars we don't know.
> 
> ...


OK, that went waaaaay deeper than I anticipated. :Hilarious :Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> OK, that went waaaaay deeper than I anticipated. :Hilarious :Hilarious


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
Sorry! :Bag


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Penny is learning to be a civilized dog! 
She's doing really well with people and letting me manage scary situations. She met more kids yesterday and did really well with them, both were wearing full helmets so they looked weird, but she accepted them quickly.

Today we stayed away from people and worked on fun stuff  
Middle is well proofed now and she will even do it in stressful situations and it helps her feel happier and more secure.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

She's doing so well, and she's just too cute!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Photo dump! 
Today was HOT so we did a shade/water walk. 
The first time I took Penny here, she was too afraid of the waterfall to go near it. She seems to be over that now 

Shaking off 









Pretty deep, not swimming yet, but in past her chest. 









Chasing leaves









The waterfall is right to her left. 
















If you squint she could be a big dog


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Looks like Penny had lots of fun. What a beautiful spot for a hot sunny day


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Kaily said:


> Looks like Penny had lots of fun. What a beautiful spot for a hot sunny day


We have some fabulous walks around here. This one is less than 8 minutes from the house (driving), it's a local state park with a waterfall that's very easy to access from the top or bottom. Perfect cooling off point on a hot day. 
This is the same spot in the winter, we were at the top to the right where I took those photos.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> We have some fabulous walks around here. This one is less than 8 minutes from the house (driving), it's a local state park with a waterfall that's very easy to access from the top or bottom. Perfect cooling off point on a hot day.
> This is the same spot in the winter, we were at the top to the right where I took those photos.


Stunning pics.  That really does look lovely.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Someone had her first swimming lesson today 
Please excuse my ratty clothes :Bag


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

I love seeing your clips of Penny, she's certainly growing in confidence and Bates in the background too, he's never far away.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

margy said:


> I love seeing your clips of Penny, she's certainly growing in confidence and Bates in the background too, he's never far away.


Thank you  
She was so funny yesterday, every time she conquers a fear she puffs up and gets all excited, it's really cool to watch. 
And yes, Bates is an excellent support dog


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Well, that's another milestone done, someone is a swimmer now  
I don't think she would choose to swim on her own without encouragement, but at least I know that if she decides to jump in while kayaking, she won't panic and knows basically what to do.






She was even brave enough to get up close to the waterfall!


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> Well, that's another milestone done, someone is a swimmer now
> I don't think she would choose to swim on her own without encouragement, but at least I know that if she decides to jump in while kayaking, she won't panic and knows basically what to do.
> 
> 
> ...


Good job Penny.
It took me best part of a whole summer at a local lake (and slipway) to get Tod swimming. Like you, I wanted him to have confidence so that if he ever a accidentally fell in he'd be able to think rather than panic.
Sickeningly, one day when we were there struggling, a Golden Retriever appeared (sans owner), threw himself into the water and started swimming in mad, splashy circles, just for the hell of it.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> Sickeningly, one day when we were there struggling, a Golden Retriever appeared (sans owner), threw himself into the water and started swimming in mad, splashy circles, just for the hell of it.


Hahahahaha! Show off dog!

Yes, I don't think Penny will ever be the throw herself in the water and swim about for the love of it kind of dog. We tried one attempt without her PFD and she's definitely not a very "floaty" dog, it took her a lot of work to keep her head above water and herself moving forward. I think we'll keep the PFD on


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Well done, Penny. 

Loving the updates, @O2.0 .


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

This dog... 
Yes, she's wall-eyed, that's what happens when you're put together with spare dog parts  
Look at her foot... Bates does this too. I used to think I accidentally taught him this as part of the heel criteria, then lo and behold swamp rat now does it too. In the same context. 
So either I somehow manage to accidentally train this with heeling, or this is a thing and Bates has been whispering in her ear about how to make mama smile and give you more treats.










Can't help but smile at recall photos :Happy
She pulls her ears back when she's trying to be faster, makes her more aerodynamic


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> This dog...
> Yes, she's wall-eyed, that's what happens when you're put together with spare dog parts
> Look at her foot... Bates does this too. I used to think I accidentally taught him this as part of the heel criteria, then lo and behold swamp rat now does it too. In the same context.
> So either I somehow manage to accidentally train this with heeling, or this is a thing and Bates has been whispering in her ear about how to make mama smile and give you more treats.
> ...


Haha she's such a character! Love her little quirks


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> This dog...
> Yes, she's wall-eyed, that's what happens when you're put together with spare dog parts
> Look at her foot... Bates does this too. I used to think I accidentally taught him this as part of the heel criteria, then lo and behold swamp rat now does it too. In the same context.
> So either I somehow manage to accidentally train this with heeling, or this is a thing and Bates has been whispering in her ear about how to make mama smile and give you more treats.
> ...


Haha. She's gorgeous! Her little quirks are adorable.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Looks like she’s loving the water now 

Nearest Jack’s got to swimming was on a steaming hot day, he climbed into the safe shallows of a canal and stood up to his belly to cool off - he had that look on his face that says “ah, relief!”.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Lurcherlad said:


> Looks like she's loving the water now
> 
> Nearest Jack's got to swimming was on a steaming hot day, he climbed into the safe shallows of a canal and stood up to his belly to cool off - he had that look on his face that says "ah, relief!".


Haha! Greyhounds don't swim, they sink LOL 

I was looking back on some videos from last summer (Penny came to us August 15) and she was very wary of even putting a toe in the water. She graduated to being okay with known bodies of water, now she has figured out deep vs shallow water and she's fine with any water she can walk in. I had forgotten how hesitant she was at first. It's definitely a relief to know she will go in enough to cool off at least.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Today's quick video, this is our well cover and it has had many dogs on it over the years, it's just a super easy, ready made platform. The lid wobbles so it was great for Bates back in the day, but Penny's not big enough to make the top wobble LOL


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

We're working on a new trick, also focused on encouraging her to move away from me


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

She's such a clever little dog.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

margy said:


> She's such a clever little dog.


Thank you! 
She keeps us on our toes, that's for sure! 
Those smarts make for a busy troublemaker too LOL!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Someone is learning to enjoy trail running. Fortunately mom is slow enough that she just has to speed trot to stay ahead of me, but she's definitely getting a good workout 

I'd say she likes this running thing 




























Too bad she's not bigger, she could pull me up these climbs!


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

What a great bonding thing it must be. 

I can't run but if I could and did that with Alfie I'm sure I trip over him if he suddenly stopped or end up half way up a tree if he saw a squirrel.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

More training stuff.

The first video is on recall. In order to eventually get to where I can call her away mid chase, first I have to be able to call her back after the chase when she's all puffed up and full of herself. So here's what she looks like coming back. I give her massive praise, there's no punishment for taking off, I want to encourage the coming back part. 
After I turned the video off I did a few rapid treats, some jump up touch which also adds value to that cue, because she's doing it while excited and puffed up.






This is an easier recall, but I was more interested in what she would do if I asked for "middle" with her usual front entrance partially blocked. She generally doesn't like to come behind for middle, but she figured it out 






And finally some more heeling, this time over 'obstacles.' As you can see that was enough to make her jump up on me and forge a little. No worries, a quick spin can put her back in the correct position. And she likes spin so I don't lose any enthusiasm for heel.






Tomorrow more swimming


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Little miss smarty pants is doing really well with heeling. Even when mom is walking funny because I hurt my back enguin


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

A great small dog skill is a cue to jump up on raised surfaces. 
It's a contained area, so it's easier to clip a leash on/off, pick the dog up if needed, keep them out of the way, all sorts of good things with a jump up cue. 
This one was particularly hard because it's so narrow. I love her confidence. The first try she's not so sure, but is willing to go for it


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Penny loves climbing things, so teaching her to climb isn't the issue, it's climbing on cue. Climb up when I say go, and also get down when I cue it. 
This is also a great way to keep her entertained, engaged and focused when out on a walk.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

How is she getting on without Bates? She must miss him.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Burrowzig said:


> How is she getting on without Bates? She must miss him.


She does 

Whenever we come back from being out, she runs in to the house and goes straight to his spot like she always did, and when he's not there, she does a predictable loop of his usual spots in the house. 
She's doing it a little less now, but she still runs inside acting like she's going to see him.

She has been a little clingy with me too, but that seems to be dissipating as well. She'll be fine eventually, but you can tell she feels his absence.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

It is very sad to witness dogs grieve. My previous two Jack's were very attached and when one passed the other grieved for months. She was clearly depressed and looked for her friend constantly. Also if she saw a dog that looked like him whilst out she would get excited only to realise it wasn't him. Heartbreaking.

Hope Penny gets use to the sad change quickly.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Milestone day yesterday. 
A year ago in this building, one, I would have had to carry her, and two, if she were on the floor you would have seen her low to the ground, tail tucked, slinking about. 
None of that anymore. Little Miss Prancy Pants acting like she owns the place! 





And confident dogs are not a flight risk so can be off leash outside


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

You could say she's come on leaps and bounds!


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## DaisyBluebell (Apr 14, 2017)

Oh that is so good to see, she doesn't look in the least bit phased by anything! Such a cutie


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Just been catching up with this.  

What a difference a year makes.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

margy said:


> You could say she's come on leaps and bounds!


 She really has, it's so gratifying to see how far she has come, and her life is so much richer because of it.



DaisyBluebell said:


> Oh that is so good to see, she doesn't look in the least bit phased by anything! Such a cutie


 Nope, total boss queen LOL  Once she's okay with an area, she's good.



LinznMilly said:


> Just been catching up with this.
> 
> What a difference a year makes.


I know! It feels both longer and like we just got her!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I figure this is a good place to put this as a sort of end to the thread though I'm sure I'll update it still periodically. 
This is how it's meant to be, we're out exploring, off trail in a very isolated area. I can count on Penny to stick with me, check in, and still do her doggy things. Perfect way to spend a day, out with my doggo exploring


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Long time no update 

Penny is doing great. Her recall is 98% there, she's able to go most places, and she continues to be a total methpuppy crazy dog most of the time - which I love. Most of the time! :Hilarious

She has a youtube and an instagram if you want to follow her more, batesnpenny2020 for both. I post a little more on there than on here.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Long time no update
> 
> Penny is doing great. Her recall is 98% there, she's able to go most places, and she continues to be a total methpuppy crazy dog most of the time - which I love. Most of the time! :Hilarious
> 
> She has a youtube and an instagram if you want to follow her more, batesnpenny2020 for both. I post a little more on there than on here.


Ahh she's such a good girl


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I should probably update on here too. We had our 3rd? 4th? Beach trip this past weekend, and Penny's leash reactivity is vastly improved. Almost no vocalization, all just not knowing how to handle the restraint of the leash. 
This particular example is a good one that shows as soon as I leave the leash loose she fixes her body language. Also a good example of her seeking me out for support which is always good.






And another example of being a civilized swamprat:
https://youtube.com/shorts/EFcfRoW0Dzg?feature=share

And my favorite video of the weekend 





She also slept in the car on the way back which she has never done, so that's a huge win in the riding in the car department, and a good reminder that it takes as long as it takes. In this case almost 2 years, but she eventually learned that the car is safe enough to sleep in.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

She's so cute!
I love that you are her advocate, and when she needed help you picked her up and showed her you are there for her if she needs you. And the lab's owners were understanding too!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> She's so cute!
> I love that you are her advocate, and when she needed help you picked her up and showed her you are there for her if she needs you. And the lab's owners were understanding too!


He was so nice! I don't know if you can hear but he was apologizing and I was saying it was fine and then offered the lab a treat. It's a very friendly beach both dog and people, most people were fine to let the dogs interact. 
Penny got several compliments again on how friendly she is, and that they're used to small dogs like her not being friendly  She does do the terrier tail up, chest out thing, but she's really a very gregarious, dog friendly dog.

I need to get there earlier in the morning as I think that's "dog" time and there are even more dogs and Penny could be off leash more. She really does enjoy interacting with other dogs, she just needs to learn how to be more chill on the leash. And she has improved massively so it's all good


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I really enjoy training recall and problem solving it. I'm really happy with where Penny's recall is right now. Especially given where we started.
Still some areas I want to improve and we'll need to do some more (a lot more) proofing around other dogs, but I'll take this 






Oh and she really doesn't like the whippoorwill! :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> I really enjoy training recall and problem solving it. I'm really happy with where Penny's recall is right now. Especially given where we started.
> Still some areas I want to improve and we'll need to do some more (a lot more) proofing around other dogs, but I'll take this
> 
> 
> ...


Well done Penny. Not just on the recall and the chilling in the car on the way home, but showing that whipoorwill who's boss. :Hilarious


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

LinznMilly said:


> Well done Penny. Not just on the recall and the chilling in the car on the way home, but showing that whipoorwill who's boss. :Hilarious


She's so funny about that whippoorwill! I don't know why it pisses her off so much, as many bird sounds as we have out here but that just sets her right off!


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## DaisyBluebell (Apr 14, 2017)

She is just so cute, fab recall there at full speed too, fantastic


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Not quite 2 years later with recall training and we have a reliable come off a chase.

https://youtube.com/shorts/nLVVZpBylIk?feature=share

Yes, 2 years. 
It just takes time. It takes time to build that relationship, to build the motivation for the reward, to build the behaviors, it's a process and it takes time. 
I don't care if you go all positive, if you use certain tools, however you teach recall, it doesn't happen overnight. If you're going to do it right and have it be reliable for the life of the dog, you just have to put the time in.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Ah, bless you @Twiggy for noticing the thread update  I was beginning to think I've been typing in invisible ink


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Not quite 2 years later with recall training and we have a reliable come off a chase.


Very impressive. What an awesome (well-trained) little dog she is.
It is something I am working on a lot with Ava - she is definitely not a velcro dog and will always want to cover a fair distance, so a solid recall will be essential before I let her off lead.
You're absolutely right, it takes a long time to build the relationship and motivate a dog to want to come back to you.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

O2.0 said:


> She's so funny about that whippoorwill! I don't know why it pisses her off so much, as many bird sounds as we have out here but that just sets her right off!





O2.0 said:


> Ah, bless you @Twiggy for noticing the thread update  I was beginning to think I've been typing in invisible ink


I always read your posts.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Twiggy said:


> I always read your posts.


<3 
That made my morning


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## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

I always read even if I don’t comment. I squirrel away every piece of information for when I have my dog. That is brilliant recall. She’s come a long way.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Dimwit said:


> You're absolutely right, it takes a long time to build the relationship and motivate a dog to want to come back to you.


And young dogs are just stupid LOL
Even if your dog is awesomely trained, I don't think I fully trusted any of mine until they were closer to 3, 4 because that juvenile brain is just not there yet! 
I'm estimating Penny to be 3ish this summer. Right about the time for everything to start really coming together.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

@JoanneF has her great comment about Penny "living her best life" and that definitely applies to her latest adventure. 
We had the opportunity for a quick overnight camping trip. A friend has a camper she had parked out for the week so I grabbed my tiny hammock tent thing and the dog and off we went. 
Penny did awesome. Sunday night there were fireworks and barking dogs and Penny and I were outside with no walls and she was totally fine. Booms didn't bother her in the least, we snuggled up and slept through most of it. She woke up once low grumbling but my friend was moving around in the camper, so that was fine. Another time she woke up low grumbling and it could have been an animal but far enough away so that too was fine, she settled right back down when I asked her to. 

Birds woke us up right at first light but she was happy to sleep another hour-ish which I appreciated. Short walk, breakfast, then a lovely long hike. Then lunch, then home. Short but sweet and we will definitely be doing more of this. 

Only downside is that she is the color of red clay, the color of dead leaves, the color of dead pine needles... It was a constant game of "find the dog"! Good thing her recall is as good as it is! Though a couple of times she was standing right next to me looking at me quizzically as I continued to call her  

Enjoy playing find the dog in these photos! 


















































































She still has no chill though...








NC mountains







youtube.com


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