# My border collie living outside



## atlas2l8v (Aug 20, 2011)

hi 

Looking for some advice and opinions please...

We have a 1yr old border collie who we adore, he is well trained and gets plenty of exercise....Currently he gets "crated" when we go to work, let out and played with at dinner when my partner comes home, then "re-crated" until we come home from work where he is let out and spends his time with us playing, walks etc, then "crated" overnight to sleep ........BUT 

now my partner is pregnant and we have built him a lovely large open run in the back garden,,,its 13ft long x 8ft wide with a nice kennel built with insulation in etc to save him being crated during the day and allowing him space to run about..

We are now thinking of leaving him outside to sleep, with him coming in if bad weather or special occasions...he would still get plenty of attention/exercise when we come home until we go to bed and at weekends where he comes with us to most places......is this ok ??

thanks for any replies and please understand im not asking for a "Your cruel, shoudlnt of got a dog reply as he is very very well loved and circumstances change


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Good on you for not just wantng to get rid of him because your starting a family and CONGRATULATIONS!!!

It sound slike you have created him a very safe and sound environment.

I guess the key is how much human interaction is he going to get?

As long as he is still getting daily interation / walks and he seems comfortable sleeping in the pen / kennel then it's not cruel.

Back home on our farm in Poland we have 2 dogs - Neither have ever set a foot inside a house in their lives but they are very much loved and well fed (Never had a commercial dog food pass through there bodies lol) members of the family. 

Its an individual choice which I am sure some people would judge you for but you know your situation and what i right for you. Personally I wouldnt do it to my girlie Millie but I have 2 or 3 friends who live in our village and they have JRT and Lurchers who sleep in kennels outside at night but are very much loved famiy dogs. (Lol my friend sneaks hot water bottles in there kennel in the winter when her hubby isnt watching  - Not that they need them because after an hour of them snuggling if you lift the kennel lid you can see the heat rising from inside )


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## atlas2l8v (Aug 20, 2011)

thank you very much for the reply and the congratulations  we cant wait...

we would never get rid of him, he is part of our family and we love him loads...we want to start getting him used to being outside over a period of time so when the baby does come along we dont just change what hes used to overnight...

he would get as much attention and social time with us as he does now, if anything he will be getting more exercise as he wont be crated and can run about when he wishes in the run instead of being in a crate


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## BumbleFluff (Jul 23, 2011)

How completely irresponsible of you locking your precious little fluffykins outside! Its cruel and unnessisary and i think i will have to come and take him off you!!  


We need piccies of him!!!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

So the baby comes along and the dog is out in the garden? Lovely.

Sorry but no, in my opinion, that's not ok. I've no problem with dogs spending the day out in the garden, but living outside all the time is something I'm strongly against - even more so when the dog has lived in the house previously, but only to be put out when the baby comes along.

Why can't he stay living inside the house with you, even with a baby?! I raised my two (now grown up) children with dogs in the house, no problems at all - just a little common sense needed! 

Collies are highly social dogs and don't do well in kennels at the best of times, never mind ones who have been used to living in the house. 

Let him stay inside and be part of the family


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## atlas2l8v (Aug 20, 2011)

hahah here you go a couple from when he was a puppy to now..hope you like


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2011)

I do tend to agree with Sixstar. I find it hard to accept dogs living outside, particularly when the dogs are pets and supposedly 'part of the family'.

I understand why you want to have a kennel and run for when you are out, but why can't the dog sleep inside at night?


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

atlas2l8v said:


> hi
> 
> Looking for some advice and opinions please...
> 
> ...


Sorry if you dont like it but, it sounds like you're slowly pushing the dog out.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't mind dogs living outside if they choose to but if they've lived indoors for most/all of their life seems a little unfair to place 'em outside.

Maya to my belief has never lived indoors and when given the chance she now chooses to live indoors.

One thing to be ware of is callus's, these are quite common with dogs living outdoors.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

To be honest... we have two kids and 2 dogs, shih tzu who sleeps in the kitchen during the night and a rottie who has the run of the rest of the house because if hes locked behind the gate he will cry like a baby.. were also planning on another baby in the very near future..... NOTHING will change with the arrangements of the animals! They are part of our family just like the kids! I would never dream of leaving my kids outside to sleep ...or my dogs!
The cat sleeps out sometimes but only when bes been a bugger and dont come home when called.


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

So your having a baby and the dog you have had indoors is getting pushed into the garden??

So bascially your pushing him out because of a new addition im sorry but that in my opinion is just plain wrong

He has been a family pet for all hes life now he is being sidelined for a baby

In my view he is a family member and im sure if a 2nd child came along you wouldnt push the 1st out so why do it to a dog that you say you adore


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## atlas2l8v (Aug 20, 2011)

thanks for the replies but to those who are saying we are pushing him out,, this is not the case, we are merely CONSIDERING this if you read the post... 

the run was built purely to let him have more exercise during the day,not just to throw him out the house. 

pls understand this will be our 1st child so is our nr1 priority. He can be quite boistrious so we are unsure of how this will be around the new addition to the family..


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

atlas2l8v said:


> thanks for the replies but to those who are saying we are pushing him out,, this is not the case, we are merely CONSIDERING this if you read the post...
> 
> the run was built purely to let him have more exercise during the day,not just to throw him out the house.
> 
> pls understand this will be our 1st child so is our nr1 priority. He can be quite boistrious so we are unsure of how this will be around the new addition to the family..


My kids are always my number 1 priority but i wouldnt let my dogs sleep outside...any people bring home new babyies to a household with animals and dont feel the need to make them live outside.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

atlas2l8v said:


> thanks for the replies but to those who are saying we are pushing him out,, this is not the case, we are merely CONSIDERING this if you read the post...
> 
> the run was built purely to let him have more exercise during the day,not just to throw him out the house.
> 
> pls understand this will be our 1st child so is our nr1 priority. He can be quite boistrious so we are unsure of how this will be around the new addition to the family..


You'd be surprised,many bouncy dogs seem to know not to do that around kids.

You should put more trust in your dog, many many members on here have all had kids and dogs together.

If you put the dog out and the kid comes the dog may see this and become distressed and upset even jealous.

Also a dog that lives outside is at more risk of being stolen.


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

I think the run is a good idea 4 when u r out or at work, 4 me personally my dogs live inside 24/7 but can c the benefit of an outside run when u r out part of the day instead of the crate option.

As 4 a baby, suggest you do some research on how to introduce baby and dog together and take it from there and b prepared, if intro is done correctly u shouldn't have any issues and the bond between a dog and child is just awesome if handles correctly at the beginning, both mine were brought up as babies with Rotties and I never had any probs, good luck with the baby


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

I think its fantatic your considering all of this before baby comes along and big credit to you for tht.

So many dogs end up in a rescue because their owners start a family.

I think the use of a run / kennel during the day is a fantastic idea, personally I dont crate my dog and would prefer them to be out in a safe environment anyday than crated inside for long periods.

I also think and as you know from my first post I am not against dogs living outside (I have two family dogs who do) but the only way your COllie will get used to the baby is by being around it. I would be concerned that by him not spending as much time around yourselves / baby (Iff he were outside day and night) that it would be harder for him to accept baby etc and the changes to routine in the household.

I think having the run / kennel is fantastic for those mements when you and dog both need abit of space is fab and excellent for when your out and he would currently be crated.

I know some people are very much against dogs living outside full stop.

It definately isnt cruel if approache din the right way and some dogs I know have the most amazing luxary kennels which my Millie would prol love if given the oppportunity lol But I like her sleeping on my bed so she is stuck in the cottage with me lol.

And btw your Collie is gorgeous!!!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

atlas2l8v said:


> thanks for the replies but to those who are saying we are pushing him out,, this is not the case, we are merely CONSIDERING this if you read the post...
> 
> the run was built purely to let him have more exercise during the day,not just to throw him out the house.
> 
> pls understand this will be our 1st child so is our nr1 priority. He can be quite boistrious so we are unsure of how this will be around the new addition to the family..


If he is kept in the house with the baby, the baby won't be a novelty, and he'll learn to be calm and gentle around it - whereas if he is kept outside and only brought in occasionally, the baby will be this new exciting wonderful thing that he only sees sometimes, hence he will be mad bouncy and excited around it. You'd be surprised at how gentle even the most boisterous of dogs can be around babies if brought up around them.

Of course the baby will be the number one priority, but the dog is still a member of the family and should be treated accordingly - and to me, that means sleeping in the house.


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## atlas2l8v (Aug 20, 2011)

thanks for the replies...

we are just worrying about preparing everything at the minute 

think we will stick with the original idea of him in the run during the day and then he can sleep in the house at night....and let our new addition grow up around our dog

MILLIE --- Cheers xx


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

If we are lucky enough to have another baby and i get the birth i want again then the baby will be born in the same room as the dog..what an intro will that be


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

atlas2l8v said:


> thanks for the replies...
> 
> we are just worrying about preparing everything at the minute
> 
> think we will stick with the original idea of him in the run during the day and then he can sleep in the house at night....and let our new addition grow up around our dog


 Wise choice!

I'm sure dog and baby will become the very best of friends, it's wonderful for children to have a pet to grow up with


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

atlas2l8v said:


> thanks for the replies...
> 
> we are just worrying about preparing everything at the minute
> 
> think we will stick with the original idea of him in the run during the day and then he can sleep in the house at night....and let our new addition grow up around our dog


I think with this set up your dog is going to have the ideal mixture and the best of both worlds


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2011)

atlas2l8v said:


> thanks for the replies...
> 
> we are just worrying about preparing everything at the minute
> 
> ...


I think this sounds great :yesnod:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

atlas2l8v said:


> He can be *quite boisterous* so we are unsure of how this will be around the new addition to the family.


so do some training!  the baby is not arriving tomorrow, right? at least, i hope not - 
if U've waited till Mum is 7-mos gone, can't see her toes nor bend over, YOU, Daddy-dear, must do some training.

find a local reward-based trainer thru the APDT-uk, or a reward-based class at the local dog-training club. 
get some good, solidly-proofed behaviors on cue: Come, Sit, Leave-it, Down, Wait & Stay are good. 
U have approx 6 to 7-mos to work on the dog, if U just recently discovered the pregnancy.

happy training! :thumbup:


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## atlas2l8v (Aug 20, 2011)

leashed for life - - - 

thankfully we have a while left yet before the arrival hahaha 

Our Collie is good at all stuff like that, when we got him we took him to a local puppy class and did loads of stuff using the "clicker" so he isnt just a dog who isnt trained..

will do some research on training methods to calm him down a bit when needed.....

thanks for the pointers


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## atlas2l8v (Aug 20, 2011)

harley bear said:


> If we are lucky enough to have another baby and i get the birth i want again then the baby will be born in the same room as the dog..what an intro will that be


GOD ! maybe train the dog to assist in some medical way ...true some intro that will be


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

harley bear said:


> If we are lucky enough to have another baby and i get the birth i want again then the baby will be born in the same room as the dog..what an intro will that be


OMG I have a mental pic in my head of Vegas cleaning the baby and getting baby 2 cry, now that would make a fantastic family album piccie and one 2 show the nieghbors pmsl


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

atlas2l8v said:


> Our Collie is good at all stuff like that... we took him to a local puppy class and did loads of stuff
> using the clicker, so he isnt just a dog who isnt trained..
> 
> will do some research on training methods to calm him down a bit when needed.


how about ENVIRONMENTAL cues?

have U bought Ur baby-carrier yet? the sort that sits on a table reclining, & doubles as a car-seat? 
teach the dog *now* that when U carry the baby-carrier, he's to go to his mat... on the side of the room. 
that way when entering or exiting the house, or going room to room, he won't dart out the door, 
nor trip U up while crossing to the stairs or the door to the nursery.

teach him that rocking the baby means 'lie down & take a nap'.

buy a CD or DVD of infant noises; teach him crying is nothing to panic over, COME FIND ME. 
when the baby wakes & fusses with a soiled diaper, the dog can let U know calmly. :yesnod:

teach him that HOLDING A DOLLY against Ur body means *'heel'*, so U don't trip - or *'follow me'*.

there are loads more; none require verbal cues, it's all context & visual or audible clues. :thumbup:


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Ditsy42 said:


> OMG I have a mental pic in my head of Vegas cleaning the baby and getting baby 2 cry, now that would make a fantastic family album piccie and one 2 show the nieghbors pmsl


Awww i bet he would do that aswell, he would nuzzle the little bundle :001_tt1: Can just imagine him carrying a baby in a blanket, holding the ends of the blanket in his mouth like a stork.

Imagine if we gave him the placentato eat outside... think the neighbours would move!... thats a thought


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Imagine if we gave him the placenta to eat outside... think the neighbours would move!...
> thats a thought


hope springs eternal. :smilewinkgrin: perhaps U could try it & see?...

BTW if there is an intact-bitch, DON't give her a placenta: it can bring on lactation, etc.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> hope springs eternal. :smilewinkgrin: perhaps U could try it & see?...
> 
> BTW if there is an intact-bitch, DON't give her a placenta: it can bring on lactation, etc.


I couldnt actually feed them placenta..thats just...well erm abuse lol i would however let them eat liver outside and pretend it was placenta... they are as thick as pig poop and wouldnt know the difference anyway


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with what you are suggesting so long as the dog is not going to be kept outside when you are home. I think the amount of crating you are doing at the moment is rather excessive and not necessary but if you can prepare him to use his kennel and run whenever you go out and at night too rather than crating then I think it will be better for him. But when you are home have him in the house and let him interact with the baby. Tbh there is seldom a problem with a young baby, it is when the baby starts crawling that the problems can arise so if the dog is well used to being around the baby it should be a big help.


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

harley bear said:


> I couldnt actually feed them placenta..thats just...well erm abuse lol i would however let them eat liver outside and pretend it was placenta... they are as thick as pig poop and wouldnt know the difference anyway


PMSL I can vouch for that, picture a bloke standing on the step with beer can in hand, shirt open showing his nice brown gut, u get the picture  however their DDB was a delight, such a sweetie over the fence, poor girl


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Ditsy42 said:


> PMSL I can vouch for that, picture a bloke standing on the step with beer can in hand, shirt open showing his nice brown gut, u get the picture  however their DDB was a delight, such a sweetie over the fence, poor girl


Dont forget the splif :frown2:

DDB is a lovely dog... her and vegas have had a snog:001_tt1: They nearly wet themselves.. they thought he was gonna attack her! Stupid, bigotted ****!:angry: They should be moving soon..with any luck!


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## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

kat&molly said:


> Sorry if you dont like it but, it sounds like you're slowly pushing the dog out.





julesmcc said:


> So your having a baby and the dog you have had indoors is getting pushed into the garden??
> 
> So bascially *your pushing him out* because of a new addition im sorry but that in my *opinion is just plain wrong*
> 
> ...


Firstly a Dog is not a child... A dog is a part of your family yes, but by humanising him you just cause problems.

I blame Disney, Warner Brothers, Eric Knight etc to be honest, they are the reason that every animal has it's own sing songy voice in my head and it's own tragic story...

Back to the point of my post

My Drym lived in the house until my son was born, my son got really sick and was at the hospital a lot, this meant that Drym would have had to be left in the house locked up for most of the day and sometimes even the night if my baby needed both me and his dad with him in hospital so we built a massive run with a large wind and weather proof kennel, we ensured that Drym had food, water and toys. When we were home Drym came back in the house to be part of the family. This has never phased him at all, he is in my opinion well balanced, he is extremely happy being on his own or with us, he grew up to love my kids. He is my best friend who will happily lay curled up in his crate or at the foot of my bed, he will follow me like a shadow unless I tell him I am off out then he won't follow me not even if the gate is wide open, putting him outside never did any harm to him at all.

Most of the farm dogs I have known have never set foot inside a house and they adore their owners and would do anything for them.

*To the OP* don't worry about what you are doing, as long as your dog feels you are not afraid of putting him outside then he won't feel afraid either. If your dog sees you happy and confident about the change then he will be too, trust your judgement and only take away from the replies you have had what you need to ensure you follow through with what you feel is best for your family  xx


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## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

I think an outside kennel is a really good idea, but I would worry that your Collie could over time be forgotten about because its out of sight and out of mind.
Using a kennel for when no one is home or when your dog cant be supervised is a good idea and the dog will benefit from it, but dont use it just to keep the dog seperate from the baby through fear of what the dog might do to the baby! Thats what training is for!

Your Collie will still need plenty of safe/secure interaction with the baby for it to get used to a baby being in the family and for it to know what is accetable from it and what isnt. Have you got the baby equipment yet ? If you have I would suggest doing some training around these items now before the baby arrives.

Teach some commands which will be needed... like "MOVE" "LEAVE" "STAY" 

Crating a dog for long periods because it is boisterous, is the WORST thing you could do! The dog might be calm in the crate , but the moment it is released again OMG the dog will be even more boisterous, because the freedom has gone straight to its head!
This could be the same with the kennel... once released from the kennel, the dog will be extremely excited to be allowed back into his "pack" and would appear to be really boisterous again... so what happens.. back in the kennel because his too hyper to be around the baby .... 
Familiarity and training is the best way forward for everyone.

I was listening to someone talk about their dog, a mad spaniel that is really hyper,gets little in the way of walks/play time and she has to be crated (alot) when it gets too much. She cant trust it at night, so she crates it and it howls all night 
Not rocket science is it!

Anyhow, congrats on baby  and good luck with the right balance for baby and dog!


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## beary_clairey (Jan 23, 2011)

Congrats on your pregnancy!!! Very exciting for you.

I Love your collie, he reminds me soo much of my boy Rex.

I agree with the majority, that to have a run for him when you are at work or out and about sounds fine.

I think when you are back home, then he should be back in the house with you.

My friend, had my collies brother and he was brilliant with all 3 of her children. The kids would never tire of throwing the ball and he would never tire of fetching it! Perfect playmates really and the collie was before the kids!

He recently passed away and her oldest son was devastated and now has a picture of Ben next to his bed.

I too would like a baby in the future and I currently have 2 dogs. I will be sensible about it but nothing will change for my dogs. Like all things in life, we all have to slot in with each other and that is key in a family with humans and fuzzies.

Good luck and I hope it all works out well for you.


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