# British Shorthair with fluffy coats :/



## Kitty Cats (Mar 25, 2013)

Hi

I recently (4 weeks ago) has a litter of British shorthair kittens. Now at the age of 4 weeks, 2 of the kittens have noticeably longer fur, more like a semi-long haired breed. Both parents are full pedigree BSH with 5 generation pedigree papers. I have also bred these cat before and all the kittens where short haired. Has anyone lose experienced this....

Thanks

Kittycats


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Both parents probably carry the long hair gene they will be variants.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

How interesting, there was a thread on PF the other day with someone who had rehomed a BSH longhair variant. I had never heard of them before. In the interests of my ongoing cat education, I think you should post pictures of these fluffies.....ah, go on


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## Kitty Cats (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks hun, I've been reading on the net a bit about this long haired gene. I'm just worried that when I come to sell them people might think that they aren't true BSH :/


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## Kitty Cats (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm new to this :/ let me see if I can upload a pic


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Kitty Cats said:


> Thanks hun, I've been reading on the net a bit about this long haired gene. I'm just worried that when I come to sell them people might think that they aren't true BSH :/


I wouldn't worry about that,it does seem not many have heard if variants. Are they registered kittens? If so you have the proof they are full pedigree.


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## Kitty Cats (Mar 25, 2013)

I've downloaded a pic, lets see if it works


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Kitty Cats said:


> I've downloaded a pic, lets see if it works


Arrh yes that's a variant. Or BLH as they are also known.


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## Kitty Cats (Mar 25, 2013)

No, I don't register them. I have bought some of my Queens as gccf active reg, but my male isn't registered.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I doubt you will like my point of view here then.
I cant see a need to breed that way im sorry but why? why not do it the right way? What are you doing for the breed?

I see why your worrying people may not believe they are full bsh's now. Well there isn't much you can do to prove it if there not registered. You have 5 generation pedigree yes but anyone can write these up.(not saying that you have op but just saying.)


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

So sweet! Thanks for posting pic.


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## Kitty Cats (Mar 25, 2013)

I love my cats, I love breeding them and rearing the kittens . I have 3 queens and 1 stud, and they only have 1 litter a year. I looked into registering my male but I can't because he doesn't have the gccf papers. Now I've looked into it, if I did start breeding on a big scale I would buy gccf active reg queens and studs. But when I bought my first cat I never bought him to breed.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Kitty Cats said:


> I love my cats, I love breeding them and rearing the kittens . I have 3 queens and 1 stud, and they only have 1 litter a year. I looked into registering my male but I can't because he doesn't have the gccf papers. Now I've looked into it, if I did start breeding on a big scale I would buy gccf active reg queens and studs. *But when I bought my first cat I never bought him to breed. *




Then I doubt the breeder of your non active cats would be pleased I would be so angry if I sold a kitten as a pet kitten (not breeding quality) and they bred from it.

Cats are placed non active for a reason sometimes that reason is they have a fault which the breeder doesn't want to carry on so will place on the non active reg.

Have you blood grouped,health tested? If no you don't know if your selling kittens with genetic health problems.

I'm just trying to get you to see why its important to do it right.

Breeding this way also under cuts the breeders who do it properly.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Both parents would have to carry LH to produce LH kittens, and in the UK LH carriers are few and far between.

You can wait and see how they turn out, and you might want to think about gene-testing your cats - in the UK Langford are the people to use, there are others in the US.

And I agree - if I sold a kitten not for breeding and heard he was being used as a stud or she as a queen I suspect I'd be round there PDQ.


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## flosskins (Jan 27, 2010)

the varient gene is recessive which means both parents can carry it without it being shown, and then when a kitten receives a copy of this gene from each parent they will show it's characteristics - in this case a fluffy coat. They are very cute and often the first to sell, however in your case with a male that isn't registered and was never intended to be bred from it may be hard to prove, and as previous posts have said you really should think long and hard about why you are breeding with cats that the breeder deemed shouldn't be bred from


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If this is one of your active registered queens I'd certainly gene test her, and if she is carrying LH I'd be back to her breeder PDQ. However I've sort of got the feeling this kitten has come from the non-active queen you are hinting at, and of course the non-active stud.

My own view is that all the cats not on the active should be neutered. You can continue with the queens on the active using outside studs, and in time get your own stud on the active.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> *If this is one of your active registered queens I'd certainly gene test her, and if she is carrying LH I'd be back to her breeder PDQ. * However I've sort of got the feeling this kitten has come from the non-active queen you are hinting at, and of course the non-active stud.
> 
> Out of interest why would you go back to breeder OS if she carries LH gene?
> 
> My friend has a stud who she had gene tested and he carries LH. She got a girl a while back who also carries it so she is going to have fun pairing them together at some point.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Kitty Cats said:


> Thanks hun, I've been reading on the net a bit about this long haired gene. I'm just worried that when I come to sell them people might think that they aren't true BSH :/


If you struggle to sell them, I'll have one!!!!!  :thumbup1:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Hmmm, not really the best way to do business. You can't 'prove' what they are as you can't register them. Anyone can knock up a paper pedigree (generational). Have you done all the relevant health tests? Keep the kittens until 13 weeks and vaccinate? As other reputable breeders do? 

Basically, you have there BLH (the variant form of BSH) but without paperwork there is very little to do to convince new owners of what they are. 

If I were you, I would do what OS suggests, keep the active registered queens, neuter your non active cats, take the active queens out to stud until you get your own active registered male and do it the proper way. I only have one queen but that doesn't mean I don't do it properly. Big or little scale is irrelevant - correctly is relevant. YOu have a cat there that wasn't sold for breeding and you have gone against the breeders wishes for that cat - this is precisely why I now early. So I don't even help BYBs unwittingly.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

yep as said the parents carry the long hair gene, i have 3 british long hairs, i love them..


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

There was a XLH "BRI" at the show I went to the other day, a so called non-standard variant progeny. Kinda bummed I missed the judging as I've never seen one before!


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

Can I please see pics of mum and dad? This is def a variant kitten, would be interesting to see where he comes from and without the GCCF paperwork it will be hard to prove.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

If you breed from cats that are not registered as active, you cannot register the kittens, which means that, technically, they are just moggies.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> If you breed from cats that are not registered as active, you cannot register the kittens, which means that, technically, they are just moggies.


Expensive moggies no doubt jiskefet


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Another thread that makes me glad I early neuter, nothing leaves without being desexed first.



> I'm just worried that when I come to sell them people might think that they aren't true BSH :/


As they should, since the cats/kittens aren't registered there's no proof of anything. This is why it's recommended to research your breeder carefully and only buy from a registered breeder, not a BYB

You don't need to be a large scale breeder, most are not


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

And, if any breeder still has doubts about the wisdom of early neutering, here's proof positive of why it's so important. Too cross to say more.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Expensive moggies no doubt jiskefet


If people are stupid enough to buy 'purebred' cats with no registrattion papers. Breeders do not keep a cat off the active register for nothing. Either of the parents may be unfit for breeding for whatever reason, and I wonder if any health checks were performed and genetics of the bloodlines was taken into consideration....


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

That is exactly my fear as a breeder. Too bad, I still can't find vets willing to neuter early (first, I thought it was because I lived in a small city but now I'm moving to a large city and it STILL isn't possible to find one!). 

Long haired British Shorthairs are not recognised by FiFe yet (not sure about GCCF etc.) and are registered as XLH. Very, very cute though and often more expensive than shorthairs (if registered etc.). 

I also don't really understand why you'd breed your male who isnt on the active register. Why not just send your active queen to a tested, well-chosen stud?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

pipje said:


> I also don't really understand why you'd breed your male who isnt on the active register. Why not just send your active queen to a tested, well-chosen stud?


No way of answering that without being blunt... because then one would have to pay for pre-mating tests, a stud fee of around £200 and travelling costs to and fro.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Many years ago we had two British creams from the same breeder at different times. Molly was a Fluff as we use to call them then. Both parents were short hairs but somewhere along the line was a fluff or Persian.
They probably didn't have tests for them then. They Came from a Lovely lady who I am still in contact Today. 
She has not bred any cats now for a few years.

These days there are so many problems with genetics and Heart problems that I will be looking long and hard as to where I get my next British from.
Hopefully it will be this year.
Loosing one to HCM not only left me in bits but I now know I have to do my homework.

Here is miss Molly Perkins who sadly is no longer with us.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

I thought perhaps she had done the tests anyway (since she says she only has one nest a year etc.). I mean, keeping a male isn't exactly the easiest nor cheapest thing (it'd probably be cheaper to pay 300 pounds to a proper stud for eg. than to feed and house an 'illegal' boy for just one nest a year). Poor guy must be frustrated since he is allowed to impregnate once a year.. ANYWAY, I just don't get it I guess...it just seems somewhat silly to charge 150 pounds for vaccinated, non-registered BSH(moggie) kittens instead of 350 pounds for proper registered ones (unless this lady lets the kittens leave unvaccinated at 8 weeks or so). And if she somehow manages to get 250-350 pounds for unregistered kittens, then all I can say is... some kitten buyers are just dumb (if there's no demand, there wouldn't be a supply).


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh wow, what an utterly gorgeous cat Molly is! (edited because I got a little confused with usernames )


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

So if I´ve understood correctly, some kittens are set aside by breeders to be sold as queens and stud and the rest are neutered for pets? Are they tested to see if they are suitable?


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Yes. Although at least for me and the breeders that I know, the vast majority of kittens are sold as pets (eventhough they might be suitable for breeding). However, it is about being clear and honest about why you want the kitten and the breeder cna then assess if you are willing to follow the rules of the feline organisation or if you just want to breed irresponsibly. A contract is signed when the buyer reserves the kitten. If the contract states no breeding, then no breeding is allowed. I would say that anyone who signs a no-breeding contract but chooses to breed is just dishonest (even if the kitten is healthy and is in accordance to the breed standard) and I wouldn't buy a kitten from him/her.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

pipje said:


> I thought perhaps she had done the tests anyway (since she says she only has one nest a year etc.). I mean, keeping a male isn't exactly the easiest nor cheapest thing (it'd probably be cheaper to pay 300 pounds to a proper stud for eg. than to feed and house an 'illegal' boy for just one nest a year). Poor guy must be frustrated since he is allowed to impregnate once a year.. ANYWAY, I just don't get it I guess...it just seems somewhat silly to charge 150 pounds for vaccinated, non-registered BSH(moggie) kittens instead of 350 pounds for proper registered ones (unless this lady lets the kittens leave unvaccinated at 8 weeks or so). And if she somehow manages to get 250-350 pounds for unregistered kittens, then all I can say is... some kitten buyers are just dumb (if there's no demand, there wouldn't be a supply).


I know... makes no sense, does it?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

merlin12 said:


> So if I´ve understood correctly, some kittens are set aside by breeders to be sold as queens and stud and the rest are neutered for pets? Are they tested to see if they are suitable?


The vast majority of good, ethical and knowledgeable breeders' kittens will go to pet homes.. for lots and varied reasons that I won't bore you with 

Tested as being suitable for....?


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> The vast majority of good, ethical and knowledgeable breeders' kittens will go to pet homes.. for lots and varied reasons that I won't bore you with
> 
> Tested as being suitable for....?


I´m just trying to understand the criteria and the question means if the kittens that are sold to breed follow a certian criteri or are tested and are found more suitable than the rest?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

You keep the ones for breeding that adhere very well to the breed standard, that have great temperaments and will 'add' something to someones lines. No point keeping something that is a bad example etc. 

All breeding cats should be health tested for the various diseases that are possible in their breed. I wouldn't (for example) breed from a cat with a tail kink - not only is it a withhold fault at show but what other bones could be involved I don't know - but I do know it is a genetic defect and can be passed on. No point breeding from a cat that is too small, too timid, or too bossy either etc. I consider for temperament too.

The best cats are few and far between - it's like looking for the Brad Pitt of the kitten world - many won't quite make it. 90% of kittens aren't up to the grade. These get sold on for pet homes, some might be good show quality but you don't want to keep them as a breeder as they don't add anything to your lines. So they go as show neuters. Occasionally, you will have a cat that is fantastic that you cant keep yourself and so you sell in on for breeding as getting rid of that genetic line would be a shame and they could add something to the other breeders lines. 

All kittens are measured up to the breed standard for their breed. Then tested for genetic faults - if they carry them- doesn't mean they would get that disease but they could pass it on and if the other parent carried the same gene then the kitten could get the disease. So those cats aren't bred from.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

merlin12 said:


> I´m just trying to understand the criteria and the question means if the kittens that are sold to breed follow a certian criteri or are tested and are found more suitable than the rest?


Sorry, still not quite sure what you mean re 'tested', i.e. tested for what? Assessing whether a kitten is suitable for show/breeding is mainly based upon whether s/he is a good example of their breed in relation to the Standard of Points for each breed. Health is (or should be) something of a given, as is routine health/genetic screening tests and would (or, again, should) be carried out as a matter of routine. Broadly speaking, there are other 'tests' that may be carried out to satisfy any specific needs and wants of the breeder or prospective new (breeder) owner, such as blood group, whether the kitten carries certain recessive colour/pattern genes, whether the kitten carries the longhair gene, etc.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks, I´ve understood everything now. Breeding must be quite difficult


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## LynzSweetie (Feb 26, 2013)

Kitty Cats said:


> Hi
> 
> I recently (4 weeks ago) has a litter of British shorthair kittens. Now at the age of 4 weeks, 2 of the kittens have noticeably longer fur, more like a semi-long haired breed. Both parents are full pedigree BSH with 5 generation pedigree papers. I have also bred these cat before and all the kittens where short haired. Has anyone lose experienced this....
> 
> ...


My cat is apparently bred from british shorthairs but has ended up as a SLH....


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

merlin12 said:


> Thanks, I´ve understood everything now. Breeding must be quite difficult


Blimey yes!

(if you do it properly)


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

pipje said:


> Long haired British Shorthairs are not recognised by FiFe yet (not sure about GCCF etc.) and are registered as XLH.


As far as I know Fifé isn't even planning to recognize British Longhairs at this point. That's why I breed under TICA which has fully recognized the breed. 
My older BLH is in Fifé registry. Back then even TICA hadn't yet fully recognized the breed, so he was neutered. I so regret that now, he's gorgeous!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> The vast majority of good, ethical and knowledgeable breeders' kittens will go to pet homes.. for lots and varied reasons that I won't bore you with
> 
> Tested as being suitable for....?


Genetic defects, either inherited or new mutations, a cat might be a carrier of without suffering from, themselves. Which will usually mean recessive genes, or mutations that will show up in a next generation.

See Spid's post just before yours.....


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Jiskefet said:


> Genetic defects, either inherited or new mutations, a cat might be a carrier of without suffering from, themselves. Which will usually mean recessive genes, or mutations that will show up in a next generation.
> 
> See Spid's post just before yours.....


As you'll see earlier in the thread, I already replied  As this is about longhair British, I wondered if that's what was being asked re 'tested for their suitability', hence why I asked what was meant.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I think it's such a shame that British Longhairs are not recognised by GCCF or Fife, they are definitely a favourite breed of mine and on the top of my want-list! 

I suppose the name 'Shorthair' in the BSH breed is the unfortunate factor in these cases - many breeds come in both short and long coats (like Selkirks for example) - and in fact, even shorthaired Brits have longer fur than most other shorthaired breeds! My Gracie certainly has the longest coat out of her and my moggies. I've heard that the Persian was just called the 'Longhair' in the past, so I do wonder whether British Shorthairs were just named such as to be the 'shorthaired' cousin of the Persian (which they are of course related to).

I definitely prefer the body shape and face of the Brit over the Persian anyway, and adding a long, fluffy coat just makes them extra-irresistable! I can't see why they are not recognised as a distinctive 'breed' in themselves. A Persian with a shorthair coat is recognised as an Exotic, even if it has one Persian parent, and Persian littermates, and Exotics are quite a different shape from Brits, so even though the Brit's longhair genes come from Persians originally, they are obviously now a distinctive part of the Brit family!

So I really wish that British Longhairs could be given the respect they deserve, and be recognised by the whole of the cat fancy! Then alot more of them would be deliberately and responsibly bred and registered, and there would be alot more BLH kittens out there


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> As you'll see earlier in the thread, I already replied  As this is about longhair British, I wondered if that's what was being asked re 'tested for their suitability', hence why I asked what was meant.


I meant if cats were tested (genetically) by the breeder to decide wether they could be sold as pets or Queens and studs. Someone answered me


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

merlin12 said:


> I meant if cats were tested (genetically) by the breeder to decide wether they could be sold as pets or Queens and studs. Someone answered me


Erm, yes, myself and Spid answered you. I must be wearing my invisibility cloak today


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Thinks we have lost the OP. Their first post was at 4:11pm yesterday, their last one at 4:36pm.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Thinks we have lost the OP. Their first post was at 4:11pm yesterday, their last one at 4:36pm.


Yep. Wish they would at least come read these responses. There really is nothing that winds me up more than ads for unregistered kittens at silly prices :mad5:


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

They have probably read them without loggin in.
I think they will not have been too pleased with the reactions from serious, responsible breeders.......


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> Erm, yes, myself and Spid answered you. I must be wearing my invisibility cloak today


I know you did, when I read the reply I quoted, I thought you were still wondering about the question that is why I clarified. Everything is quite clear


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

I have to link to this thread in rescue -http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-rescue-adoption/298863-wanted-british-shorthair-rehome.html

Registered BSH breeders screen their cats for PKD and carry out matings to ensure no cats are bred that will have the disease. I wonder if the OP screens her cats for it? Breeding a kitten from untested cats means someone somewhere will end up losing a cat to the disease. The test is cheap and easy to do so, there is no excuse not to test for it, but I guess that is how the unregistered breeders keep the cost of their kittens £50 cheaper. That and not vaccinating, letting them go too early, not worming etc. Mind you some people love a bargain. Such a shame that the poster on the rescue thread is the one who gets hurt when the poor cat passes away.

Breeding because you love it is one thing, but I would also want to be able to sleep at night knowing I have done all I can to breed healthy kittens. Breeding from an unregistered cat is a massive gamble, as one day you may find out why he was registered "not to be bred from" when a cat owner lets you know of the loss of their cat due to a hereditary disease that both your cats carry.


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## Jessnbeau (Mar 16, 2013)

Wow he looks spit of my beau !! Hes Beautiful x


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## Cats cats cats (Feb 4, 2011)

jill3 said:


> Many years ago we had two British creams from the same breeder at different times. Molly was a Fluff as we use to call them then. Both parents were short hairs but somewhere along the line was a fluff or Persian.
> They probably didn't have tests for them then. They Came from a Lovely lady who I am still in contact Today.
> She has not bred any cats now for a few years.
> 
> ...


:001_wub: :001_wub: :001_wub: wow, miss molly :001_tt1: i'd love a BLH


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