# RSPCA taking our dog



## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

We rescued a dog from abroad last year. When he came to us he was terrified of people, cars, noises, animals etc. When spooked by something, he will run. Weve had him for around 5 months and during that time he has built some confidence up, his weight is up, he loves being outside in the open, in forests and fields and rivers etc. He is a very much loved and well cared for animal. 

Earlier this week, my partner was on his way to work with the dog which was normal. When they changed vans, the dog got scared and ran and didn’t have a collar on. My partner did manage to get to him and took him back to the van however he’s been reported to the rspca for mistreatment. the rspca have came into our hone last night (I wasn’t present) made out they were doing a welfare check, turned up with the police and said that they were taking the dog. The dog kept running to my partner and didn’t want to leave him, wouldn’t go with the officer. They tried to take his bedding etc. The dog was NOT signed over, we have a loving clean warm home, the dog has his own space in the utility room, he is more than cared for and loved. 
I’ve searched and searched online and have found sites and forums to say that the rspca have no right to enter your home and definitely have no right to take your animal especially without signing it over. We’ve read that they try to prosecute people and destroy their healthy animals. I could understand if the animal was found to be obviously suffering etc however our pet is genuinely happy, loved and content.

neither of us have slept and we genuinely don’t know what to do. We just want our dog back. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Strawberry27 said:


> We rescued a dog from abroad last year. When he came to us he was terrified of people, cars, noises, animals etc. When spooked by something, he will run. Weve had him for around 5 months and during that time he has built some confidence up, his weight is up, he loves being outside in the open, in forests and fields and rivers etc. He is a very much loved and well cared for animal.
> 
> Earlier this week, my partner was on his way to work with the dog which was normal. When they changed vans, the dog got scared and ran and didn't have a collar on. My partner did manage to get to him and took him back to the van however he's been reported to the rspca for mistreatment. the rspca have came into our hone last night (I wasn't present) made out they were doing a welfare check, turned up with the police and said that they were taking the dog. The dog kept running to my partner and didn't want to leave him, wouldn't go with the officer. They tried to take his bedding etc. The dog was NOT signed over, we have a loving clean warm home, the dog has his own space in the utility room, he is more than cared for and loved.
> I've searched and searched online and have found sites and forums to say that the rspca have no right to enter your home and definitely have no right to take your animal especially without signing it over. We've read that they try to prosecute people and destroy their healthy animals. I could understand if the animal was found to be obviously suffering etc however our pet is genuinely happy, loved and content.
> ...


Ufff. This is so typical of the RSPCA. There is a helpline which gives legal advice on this. It was covered in a different thread. You're right. They have no right to take your dog. Have you searched the historical threads as this has been discussed before with lots of helpful tips?


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Thank you for your response. I don’t even know where to start when searching. What should I type to find the threads?


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Here you go:

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/rspca.532848/


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

The RSPCA cant seize dogs, but the police can. They then hand the animal into the care of the RSPCA but it does not become their property without going through the courts.

Have you spoken to the police since? What grounds did they take your dog under? What paperwork did they provide you with? There will be a crime number.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> The RSPCA cant seize dogs, but the police can. They then hand the animal into the care of the RSPCA but it does not become their property without going through the courts.
> 
> Have you spoken to the police since? What grounds did they take your dog under? What paperwork did they provide you with? There will be a crime number.


And the police have no right of automatic entry into your home. Though I do understand how you were potentially misled by a "welfare check".


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

This makes me so angry. It happens so often, particularly with horses who are then given to someone to look after who neglects them! They have no right, surely it would have to go through court first. There are animals kept in atrocious conditions that are reported sometimes for years and the RSPCA say that if they have food and water they can do nothing about it yet they jump in on well kept animals and seize them. 

I do hope you get your dog back very soon. Please update us as I am sure everyone will worry about you and your dog.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Douglas' Dad said:


> And the police have no right of automatic entry into your home. Though I do understand how you were potentially misled by a "welfare check".


There are various statues that give them power of entry. Its not clear though if they used these, if if they were allowed/invited in.

RSPCA have absolutely no rights though, unless invited.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> The RSPCA cant seize dogs, but the police can. They then hand the animal into the care of the RSPCA but it does not become their property without going through the courts.
> 
> Have you spoken to the police since? What grounds did they take your dog under? What paperwork did they provide you with? There will be a crime number.


They said that while the investigation is ongoing they need to take the dog to be checked over by a vet. They tried to get my partner to sign the dog over but he refused. They were accompanied by a police officer but had no warrant. 
I can't help but feel that we've been totally screwed over by criminals. We are absolutely devastated and haven't slept. I don't know what to tell the children, we are so utterly distressed.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> There are various statues that give them power of entry. Its not clear though if they used these, if if they were allowed/invited in.
> 
> RSPCA have absolutely no rights though, unless invited.


they weren't invited in but it was made out to my partner that they had to / had rights to come in to check on the welfare. We had nothing to hide and didn't for a second think that the dog would be removed.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Strawberry27 said:


> They said that while the investigation is ongoing they need to take the dog to be checked over by a vet. They tried to get my partner to sign the dog over but he refused. They were accompanied by a police officer but had no warrant.
> I can't help but feel that we've been totally screwed over by criminals. We are absolutely devastated and haven't slept. I don't know what to tell the children, we are so utterly distressed.


Have you phoned the police this morning? They will be the ones who seized the dog, as the RSPCA have no legal powers and no legal rights to your dog, especially if you didnt sign anything.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Trevor Cooper Doglaw. 
Please can somebody put up a link??


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> Have you phoned the police this morning? They will be the ones who seized the dog, as the RSPCA have no legal powers and no legal rights to your dog, especially if you didnt sign anything.


The police officer said that he was only there to make sure nothing goes wrong. He said to my partner 'this is a really nice house, your dog looks well looked after'

no we haven't spoken to the police yet as I wasnt aware that they had any part of it. We weren't under caution or anything


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> There are various statues that give them power of entry. Its not clear though if they used these, if if they were allowed/invited in.
> 
> RSPCA have absolutely no rights though, unless invited.


Yes but they will usually need a warrant I think. Unless it's an emergency.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Strawberry27 said:


> The police officer said that he was only there to make sure nothing goes wrong. He said to my partner 'this is a really nice house, your dog looks well looked after'
> 
> no we haven't spoken to the police yet as I wasnt aware that they had any part of it. We weren't under caution or anything


I would certainly give them a call. If you didnt sign your dog over, and you didnt want them to take it, i cant see how the RSPCA had any right to take it. They dont have those powers so i would question if their actions are lawful. Police might help you there. They might not be all that interested though, so be prepared to be a bit pushy.

Were you given any paperwork at all? Either from the police or the RSPCA? Someone somewhere must have given you some sort of contact information.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Douglas' Dad said:


> Yes but they will usually need a warrant I think. Unless it's an emergency.


No, they dont need always need a warrant. As i said, there are various statues that give them power of entry without one.

In this case it sounds like the RSPCA bullied their way in, so the point is moot.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Link for Doglaw

https://doglaw.co.uk/


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Douglas' Dad said:


> Yes but they will usually need a warrant I think. Unless it's an emergency.


well they didn't have a warrant but because he was mislead, my partner let them in. Did not agree to allow them to take the dog at all


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## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

Sorry to hear what’s happened you must be going out of you mind with worry. I’d definitely speak to the police again as has been said the rspca have no legal rights to take your dog. Also I would contact the rescue that you rescued him from, they should be able to give you some assistance in getting him back hopefully.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Can anyone advise us what to say when I call the police up ad I’m totally lost?


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> No, they dont need always need a warrant. As i said, there are various statues that give them power of entry without one.
> 
> In this case it sounds like the RSPCA bullied their way in, so the point is moot.


Yes you're right. But checking just now the general rule is that they will need one:

https://www.hudgellsolicitors.co.uk...gly-raided-what-is-the-police-raid-procedure/


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Strawberry27 said:


> Can anyone advise us what to say when I call the police up ad I'm totally lost?


Have you called SHG's emergency helpline? Do this before you do anything. They will tell you what to do.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Douglas' Dad said:


> Yes you're right. But checking just now the general rule is that they will need one:
> 
> https://www.hudgellsolicitors.co.uk...gly-raided-what-is-the-police-raid-procedure/


Thats a raid, which is entirely different.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> Thats a raid, which is entirely different.


No. If you read the link it talks about the general rights of police to enter private property. A raid is an uninvited entry into private property which is what is being discussed here.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Were you given any paperwork by either the police or RSPCA at the time?
Both being official organisations, they're not just going to swoop in and leave with no papertrail, surely. Even if you didnt officially sign the dog over, there'd be some record that they'd have given you?


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Douglas' Dad said:


> Ufff. This is so typical of the RSPCA. There is a helpline which gives legal advice on this. It was covered in a different thread. You're right. They have no right to take your dog. Have you searched the historical threads as this has been discussed before with lots of helpful tips?


I've just spoken to Ann from the self help group. She has given us details of a solicitor so we're going to give him a call now


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Douglas' Dad said:


> No. If you read the link it talks about the general rights of police to enter private property. A raid is an uninvited entry into private property which is what is being discussed here.


I have read the link, it has conveniently left out the section that clearly states there are numerous statues that allow the police to enter a premises without a warrant.

You strike me as one of those people that just *has* to be right, so im sure you'll disagree. Again.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

So how many people were there & were they in uniform? What vehicle did they take your dog away in? Was it an RSPCA van & were there police cars? Surely they must have given identification & paperwork regarding taking the dog.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

BlueJay said:


> Were you given any paperwork by either the police or RSPCA at the time?
> Both being official organisations, they're not just going to swoop in and leave with no papertrail, surely. Even if you didnt officially sign the dog over, there'd be some record that they'd have given you?


Ive asked this a few times now. I do hope this isnt a windup.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Am I reading it right that the dog was reported as loose when away from home, and was safely retrieved without the RSPCA or dog warden getting involved at all?
Did you have any contact from the RSPCA (letter, phonecall, whatever) about this before the visit?
How did they know where the dog lived if he was away from home at the time?

Maybe I'm paranoid with all the dog thievery stories flying around and this may be waaaay into the realms of implausibility, but if you didnt get any paperwork or similar and theres been no contact before or since, is it possible that these people were _pretending _to be officers?

Either way, what a horrible situation to be in 
I hope you can get your dog back quickly


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Nonnie said:


> Ive asked this a few times now. I do hope this isnt a windup.


Seems to be the only thing not being answered!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

BlueJay said:


> Am I reading it right that the dog was reported as loose when away from home, and was safely retrieved without the RSPCA or dog warden getting involved at all?
> Did you have any contact from the RSPCA (letter, phonecall, whatever) about this before the visit?
> How did they know where the dog lived if he was away from home at the time?
> 
> ...


That's what I thought but all that effort for a rescue pet dog? I could understand if it were a breed champion or had won various sports titles etc as it would be worth ££££'s

Really doesn't sound plausible to me if I'm honest


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> I have read the link, it has conveniently left out the section that clearly states there are numerous statues that allow the police to enter a premises without a warrant.
> 
> You strike me as one of those people that just *has* to be right, so im sure you'll disagree. Again.


No. I just want to understand their powers. I would imagine when a firm of solicitors refers to terrorism legislation, that is precisely a statutory power. I doubt they are going to list every statute. The Citizens Advice website makes the same point. That the police generally have no right to enter uninvited without a warrant. The statutory exceptions are indeed the exception not the rule which is the point I was making. Unless you can point me to what/where those statutory exceptions are which suggest otherwise. I really don't think a firm of criminal solicitors has any reason to "conveniently" omit mention of anything. It would be misleading of them to do so. This isn't a question of needing to be right. It's a question of wanting to know what the accurate position is. All you've said is that they have numerous "statutory powers". What are these statutory powers because if they don't relate to ordinary events then they aren't going to be commonly encountered and it's a safe assumption that they won't be frequently used as an excuse to enter without permission.

Edit:

Found it.

The statutory powers of entry without a warrant, uninvited are specialised and restricted indeed as the College of Policing indicates:

https://www.app.college.police.uk/a...-and-obtaining-and-executing-search-warrants/

The general rule is that a warrant would be necessary if you don't invite the police in yourself.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Cleo38 said:


> That's what I thought but all that effort for a rescue pet dog? I could understand if it were a breed champion or had won various sports titles etc as it would be worth ££££'s
> 
> Really doesn't sound plausible to me if I'm honest


I really do hope it's not the case
Though I'm not sure if that's any less scary than official services taking your part away for no reason anyways


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## LotsaDots (Apr 15, 2016)

We have a case nearby of 2 dogs living outside chained up 24/7 there has been a huge petition to get the RSPCA to intervene but they say because the dogs have food, water and shelter (a disgusting, tiny kennel with no bedding) there is nothing they can do. Seems strange they would take a perfectly healthy dog in a loving home. If it was me I'd chain myself to their van before they took my dogs away. Not saying the OP isn't telling the truth but it all seems very weird.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

LotsaDots said:


> We have a case nearby of 2 dogs living outside chained up 24/7 there has been a huge petition to get the RSPCA to intervene but they say because the dogs have food, water and shelter (a disgusting, tiny kennel with no bedding) there is nothing they can do. Seems strange they would take a perfectly healthy dog in a loving home. If it was me I'd chain myself to their van before they took my dogs away. Not saying the OP isn't telling the truth but it all seems very weird.


TBF, when I contacted the RSPCA about a whippet/Lurcher being prodded by a broom handle and yelled at to "get in the f***ing [small animal hutch that's really too small for even a rabbit]* they acted promptly and both the dog, her leash ,(which was kept outside) and the rabbit hutch have gone and never reappeared. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I'm hoping the barstool owner did the right thing and handed her over. Or else, she was seized.

But I agree something's not adding up here. I'm not saying the OP is lying either, but something's fishy somewhere. Hopefully she'll clarify things and answer the questions when she logs back on.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Douglas' Dad said:


> Have you called SHG's emergency helpline? Do this before you do anything. They will tell you what to do.


I've called the shg they've given us a solicitors details, we've just spoken to them.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Have you called the police and the RSPCA to find out whats going on? 

It might be as simple as a vet check and then they will return your dog.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Cleo38 said:


> So how many people were there & were they in uniform? What vehicle did they take your dog away in? Was it an RSPCA van & were there police cars? Surely they must have given identification & paperwork regarding taking the dog.


I wasn't present, my partner was home alone with the dog. They phoned him the day before and said 'there's been an allegation made, we need to come to speak to you and if you don't comply then we will take legal action against you and you could be prosecuted'. They came in a police car and an rspca van.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Strawberry27 said:


> I've called the shg they've given us a solicitors details, we've just spoken to them.


And what did they say?

You've been asked a few times about papers - did you receive any documentation pertaining to the seizure? Surely an official seizure would have some form of paperwork, even if you didn't sign it. We're asking because it might help us to help you further.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> Have you called the police and the RSPCA to find out whats going on?
> 
> It might be as simple as a vet check and then they will return your dog.


M

Not yet, we've instructed a solicitor who have said they will ask for the dog to be returned to us after the 'interview'.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> And what did they say?
> 
> You've been asked a few times about papers - did you receive any documentation pertaining to the seizure? Surely an official seizure would have some form of paperwork, even if you didn't sign it. We're asking because it might help us to help you further.


We have had no papers or slips or anything about seizing the dog. All that was left with us is a generic rspca card with the inspectors name hand written on it


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

BlueJay said:


> Am I reading it right that the dog was reported as loose when away from home, and was safely retrieved without the RSPCA or dog warden getting involved at all?
> Did you have any contact from the RSPCA (letter, phonecall, whatever) about this before the visit?
> How did they know where the dog lived if he was away from home at the time?
> 
> ...


They used the van registration to grace the company and have been out to my partners brother in laws address (his company) and got contact details for everyone who was present and been to their homes or spoken to them.

all he has was a voicemail, no paperwork at all from police or rspca other than a generic business card with the inspectors name hand written.

I wasn't present at the time but my partner told me that the young police officer was just there to accompany the rspca and commented that we have a lovely home in a nice area (we're in a new estate) and that the dog looks well looked after


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Strawberry27 said:


> They used the van registration to grace the company and have been out to my partners brother in laws address (his company) and got contact details for everyone who was present and been to their homes or spoken to them.
> 
> all he has was a voicemail, no paperwork at all from police or rspca other than a generic business card with the inspectors name hand written.
> 
> I wasn't present at the time but my partner told me that the young police officer was just there to accompany the rspca and commented that we have a lovely home in a nice area (we're in a new estate) and that the dog looks well looked after


Really? So there's been alot of work preceeding this then? Sorry but this doesn't sound right to me at all. Maybe I'm wrong but all that effort gone in to this then there must be alot more to this 'story' .... I'm out!


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Strawberry27 said:


> They used the van registration to grace the company and have been out to my partners brother in laws address (his company) and got contact details for everyone who was present and been to their homes or spoken to them.
> 
> all he has was a voicemail, no paperwork at all from police or rspca other than a generic business card with the inspectors name hand written.
> 
> I wasn't present at the time but my partner told me that the young police officer was just there to accompany the rspca and commented that we have a lovely home in a nice area (we're in a new estate) and that the dog looks well looked after


But you've not actually attempted to contact the RSPCA to find out what's going on?

Yeah, this is all very odd


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Did your partner hit or beat the dog, or abuse it in any way? I cant see any other reason for them wanting to take the dog, and certainly not needing to take it for a vet check.

There must have been some reason why someone reported the incident and thought to take down registration details.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

BlueJay said:


> But you've not actually attempted to contact the RSPCA to find out what's going on?
> 
> Yeah, this is all very odd


This happened at 8pm last night. I've spent all morning researching what can be done and I will not speak to the rspca until I'm armed with knowledge. Hence this post and hence instructing the shg and solicitor. Not odd at all.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Nonnie said:


> Did your partner hit or beat the dog, or abuse it in any way? I cant see any other reason for them wanting to take the dog, and certainly not needing to take it for a vet check.
> 
> There must have been some reason why someone reported the incident and thought to take down registration details.


He a rescue dog and gets frightened easily. The dog was spooked by something possibly traffic. He ran off into a field and a river. He was not wearing a collar (usually is but was taken off with his lead) he was pulled back over into the van after being chased and was likely very uncomfortable. He was not hit, beaten or treated badly in any way, there is no evidence at all other than the word of two people yet at least another three people present who are willing to defend my partner. the rspca have not lawfully taken the dog, he hasn't been signed over and there was no warrant at all.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Strawberry27 said:


> They used the van registration to grace the company and have been out to my partners brother in laws address (his company) and got contact details for everyone who was present and been to their homes or spoken to them.
> 
> all he has was a voicemail, no paperwork at all from police or rspca other than a generic business card with the inspectors name hand written.
> 
> I wasn't present at the time but my partner told me that the young police officer was just there to accompany the rspca and commented that we have a lovely home in a nice area (we're in a new estate) and that the dog looks well looked after


Spoken to them trying to trace who's dog it was. The inspector tried to take the brother in laws dog - who was not present and not was the brother in law. He was told to get out and that he wasn't taking his dog


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Sounds fishy to me

Never known RSPCA to phone before hand.. They just knock doors. 

No paperwork. Nah


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm sorry you are going though this, I have nothing to add to what has already been said, just to let you know I keeping my finger crossed that you get your dog back home very soon.

I hate the RSPCA with a passion.


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## Pricivius (Mar 16, 2018)

I’m not understanding. The incident was your dog got loose and someone reported it? The police and RSPCA traced the dog and took it on the basis that it got loose but was soon caught after running into a field and river? So the dog didn’t bite anyone or any animal? There was no sheep worrying? No damage caused to people or property? No possible alleged mistreatment or heavy handling by your partner? Dogs get loose all the time and it can take weeks to catch them but the police and rspca don’t track down the owners and seize the dogs - there would be hundreds if not thousands of dogs seized.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Unfortunately the RSPCA do some very odd things. Most very neglected dogs and horses belong to pretty violent people so they tend to leave them, but they seem to like to keep their numbers up with the innocuous ones. There was someone on a horse forum a few years ago asking similar advice. Their elderly horse under vet treatment was taken out of the field and a note left by the RSPCA. If I remember rightly by the time they found it and fought the battle to get it back it had had no treatment and had to be put to sleep.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

There are people driving around in false RSPCA vans trying to take peoples dogs.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/-/news-advice-to-the-public-after-people-impersonate-rspca-staff


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Whether the whole story is being told here or not, I'm quite surprised that many seem to find it hard to believe that the RSPCA could behave like this! They are not the little angels they like you to think they are & I speak from (Mrs BAs) experience.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

rona said:


> There are people driving around in false RSPCA vans trying to take peoples dogs.
> 
> https://www.rspca.org.uk/-/news-advice-to-the-public-after-people-impersonate-rspca-staff


I was wondering if this is what has happened to the OP. It all seems so far fetched.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Strawberry27 said:


> Did not agree to allow them to take the dog at all


Thank goodness your husband didn't sign the dog over (you would never see him again). Do you know who phoned the RSPCA in the first place? And what are their grounds? There are different sections under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (suitable environment, suitable diet, need to be pain-free, etc, etc). Do you know which it would be? What has someone told them do you think to bring them out? Quite often it's a spiteful neighbour.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Strawberry27 said:


> Can anyone advise us what to say when I call the police up ad I'm totally lost?


 Ring SHG (self-help group). We had a poster a month or two back and she rang them, was very grateful and said they were brilliant. There is a mobile number and they are available pretty much all the time.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

rona said:


> There are people driving around in false RSPCA vans trying to take peoples dogs.
> 
> https://www.rspca.org.uk/-/news-advice-to-the-public-after-people-impersonate-rspca-staff


That's what I was wondering. The police inspector could just have been a friend in a costume bought online.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Calvine said:


> *Thank goodness your husband didn't sign the dog over (you would never see him again).* Do you know who phoned the RSPCA in the first place? And what are their grounds? There are different sections under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (suitable environment, suitable diet, need to be pain-free, etc, etc). Do you know which it would be? What has someone told them do you think to bring them out? Quite often it's a spiteful neighbour.


I got the impression the dog is currently with the RSPCA, from this snippet at the bottom of the OP:



Strawberry27 said:


> We just want our dog back.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rona said:


> There are people driving around in false RSPCA vans trying to take peoples dogs.
> 
> https://www.rspca.org.uk/-/news-advice-to-the-public-after-people-impersonate-rspca-staff


 But these had police with them, so one imagines they were genuine (although they do dress in a similar fashion).


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> I got the impression the dog is currently with the RSPCA, from this snippet at the bottom of the OP:


Yes, the dog is with them, but was ''seized'' and not signed over from what one can see.


Strawberry27 said:


> The dog was NOT signed over


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Blackadder said:


> Whether the whole story is being told here or not, I'm quite surprised that many seem to find it hard to believe that the RSPCA could behave like this! They are not the little angels they like you to think they are & I speak from (Mrs BAs) experience.


What I've said is the complete truth. I would definitely not seek help if we were guilty of anything. If you'd visited my home / and or knew us you would be very shocked.


Calvine said:


> Thank goodness your husband didn't sign the dog over (you would never see him again). Do you know who phoned the RSPCA in the first place? And what are their grounds? There are different sections under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (suitable environment, suitable diet, need to be pain-free, etc, etc). Do you know which it would be? What has someone told them do you think to bring them out? Quite often it's a spiteful neighbour.


it was someone in a nearby village where my partner parks the work vans. They usually meet in one place then get into the same van. My first thought was that they don't like that they park there regularly. They are saying that they saw the dog being hit / although I want to point out that they didn't even know what colour skin the owner was not did they have a good description of the dog therefore if they didn't know those details, how could they have possibly saw what they have said... so yes it would come under section 4 of the welfare act I believe. It is one persons word against 3 other people (there was a small group on their way to work which would speak in my partners defence) so I find it hard to believe they'd get a conviction out of this. What I find appalling is that they have completely mislead my partner into believing that he had to allow them to take the dog last night. The dog did not want to leave, he was noticeably distressed. The inspector had no legal right what so ever to take the dog. 
We have a solicitor acting for us now and we feel that given the position we're in, we are in the best possible place. Praying to have the dog back with us very soon. I already know what he won't eat and will likely suffer with loose stools etc as that's how he is when he is scared.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

lorilu said:


> I was wondering if this is what has happened to the OP. It all seems so far fetched.


Unlikely if the police were genuinely with them?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Strawberry27 said:


> Praying to have the dog back with us very soon. I


Praying here too. Praying it WAS the RSPCA and not a fake dog stealing operation, so you can recover your dog. So sorry this has happened. If you have legal support now have they contacted the RSPCA?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Calvine said:


> Unlikely if the police were genuinely with them?


Police can be faked as easily as RSPCA officials.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

lorilu said:


> Police can be faked as easily as RSPCA officials.





Calvine said:


> (although they do dress in a similar fashion


Which is why I said in an earlier post that they have similar uniforms ^^^^. But would dog thieves go to so much trouble to steal a rescue dog? Two lots of bogus uniforms? Just a dog brought from abroad, not worth thousands, at least, unlikely to be.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

How would bogus officers find out where the owners live?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Nonnie said:


> How would bogus officers find out where the owners live?


And why would they bother unless the dog was of some value? It's not like they took a litter of French Bulldogs.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Calvine said:


> Which is why I said in an earlier post that they have similar uniforms ^^^^. But would dog thieves go to so much trouble to steal a rescue dog? Two lots of bogus uniforms? Just a dog brought from abroad, not worth thousands, at least, unlikely to be.


I wouldn't begin to try to attempt to understand the mindset of dog thieves. The whole thing sounds bizarre to me. As has been pointed out dogs get loose and owners run after them, all the time. It's hardly cause for calling the RSPCA. I can't help thinking there is more to this we are not being told.

Anyway I hope the dog is recovered today.


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Strawberry27 said:


> What I've said is the complete truth. I would definitely not seek help if we were guilty of anything. If you'd visited my home / and or knew us you would be very shocked.


I'm not saying you are guilty of anything, I'm keeping an open mind. What I am saying is that what you describe doesn't surprise me at all, it's pretty common for the RSPCA to turn up with Police in tow to "prevent a breach of the peace"...in reality it's to project a legality that they don't have! 
They're a charity & have the same legal powers as you & I, nothing more, & as such to walk into someones house & remove a dog isn't legal... I'd go as far as to say it's theft & I'd report it to the Police.

You need to find out where the dog is!


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Blackadder said:


> Whether the whole story is being told here or not, I'm quite surprised that many seem to find it hard to believe that the RSPCA could behave like this! They are not the little angels they like you to think they are & I speak from (Mrs BAs) experience.


As far as I'm concerned all they think about is money.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

@Strawberry27: It may be worth speaking to the dog's vet as you may need him/her to speak on your behalf at some point.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Calvine said:


> Yes, the dog is with them, but was ''seized'' and not signed over from what one can see.


Apols, I misread your post! But yes, if paperwork were signed it would complicate things further.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Blackadder said:


> You need to find out where the dog is!


I think they keep this secret in case the owners try to snatch them back.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Strawberry27 said:


> What I've said is the complete truth. I would definitely not seek help if we were guilty of anything. If you'd visited my home / and or knew us you would be very shocked.
> 
> it was someone in a nearby village where my partner parks the work vans. They usually meet in one place then get into the same van. My first thought was that they don't like that they park there regularly. They are saying that they saw the dog being hit / although I want to point out that they didn't even know what colour skin the owner was not did they have a good description of the dog therefore if they didn't know those details, how could they have possibly saw what they have said... so yes it would come under section 4 of the welfare act I believe. It is one persons word against 3 other people (there was a small group on their way to work which would speak in my partners defence) so I find it hard to believe they'd get a conviction out of this. What I find appalling is that they have completely mislead my partner into believing that he had to allow them to take the dog last night. The dog did not want to leave, he was noticeably distressed. The inspector had no legal right what so ever to take the dog.
> We have a solicitor acting for us now and we feel that given the position we're in, we are in the best possible place. Praying to have the dog back with us very soon. I already know what he won't eat and will likely suffer with loose stools etc as that's how he is when he is scared.


Can you come back and let us know what happens

I very much hope you get your dog back, must have been a horrifying experience for you.

I despair of the RSPCA. 
There used to be someone renting land in the village to keep sheep and cattle. The poor creatures were left far to long on pasture during the winter with no supplementary feeding. On occasions dead sheep would be seen which weren't dealt with for days as the owner rarely came round to check on them even when notified. Eventually the RSPCA were called in, they did not come without warning, but phoned up the owner to make an appointment. The owner would then clear up evidence and put plenty of hay out before the rspca turned up, and the rspca would leave and say everything was fine. Someone spoke to them and said that they needed to come round without making an appointment to see what it's really like, but the officers said that they had to make an appointment as they needed to go into the fields and needed permission. As several of the fields had footpaths and the state of the animals could be seen clearly from the roadside, we felt they were making excuses. Petitions were signed, people continually phoned the rspca yet to no avail. All we could do was try to help these poor creatures by feeding them ourselves.
Eventually the owner went bankrupt over another matter and sold up.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> they had to make an appointment as they needed to go into the fields and needed permission.


Maybe theoretically, but totally untrue in practice. We have ''No trespassing'' sings on the gates and fencing at the stable yard, huge big ones. RSPCA have been seen climbing over like commandos. I remember on one occasion one of the young guys at the yard turned up, saw their van parked outside and threw a load of horse shit at it, then drove off until they had gone.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

If the dog wasnt signed over, and the police didnt seize it, then surely the RSPCA have removed it illegally?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> phoned the rspca yet to no avail.


Apparently people were phoning for over a year about the conditions at Spindles Farm (Jamie Gray) . . . by the time they got there with World Horse Welfare, about 30+ were already dead and over 100 in desperate need of attention. They don't like to take on people who will put up a fight like travellers and horse dealers; easier just to take family pets. They are the second largest prosecutor in the country, second only to CPS, and they are the largest _private_ prosecutor. However, I read recently that they will soon be giving up the private prosecutions and handing them over to CPS who will then decide if a case is worth bringing (ie whether there is a reasonable chance of getting a conviction).


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Nonnie said:


> and the police didnt seize it,


Police don't have to actually do anything, just be a presence alongside R$PCA, but as far as I know, there has to be a warrant appropriately signed. Technically, they take the animal and pass it over for RSPCA to ''care for'', but in practice they just attend.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Calvine said:


> Police don't have to actually do anything, just be a presence alongside R$PCA, but as far as I know, there has to be a warrant appropriately signed. Technically, they take the animal and pass it over for RSPCA to ''care for'', but in practice they just attend.


I think i stated that earlier.

Doesnt sound like thats what has happened though, which would make me question the legality of the RSPCAs actions.


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Nonnie said:


> If the dog wasnt signed over, and the police didnt seize it, then surely the RSPCA have removed it illegally?


Yes they have! It's really no different to you or me going into a random house & taking the family pet, they have no special powers whatsoever... they're just members of the public like us.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Blackadder said:


> Yes they have! It's really no different to you or me going into a random house & taking the family pet, they have no special powers whatsoever... they're just members of the public like us.


Indeed. They have no prosecuting powers. Their prosecutions are "private" a process available to anyone in the U.K.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Summercat said:


> That's what I was wondering. The police inspector could just have been a friend in a costume bought online.


I doubt they are going to go to so much trouble for what is a dog brought over from abroad as a rescue (so most likely a crossbreed)? Surely they would go for the sorts of dogs which are selling for a lot of money. OK if they saw it running loose, an opportunist thief might grab it, but otherwise . . . ?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Nonnie said:


> I think i stated that earlier.
> 
> Doesnt sound like thats what has happened though, which would make me question the legality of the RSPCAs actions.


OK. I remember posting it some years back.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Calvine said:


> But these had police with them, so one imagines they were genuine (although they do dress in a similar fashion).


Hey guys thank you for your responses so far. We've had the most awful day.

I haven't spoken to the rspca directly because I quite plainly don't trust them.

we were completely mistold.. neither of us had anything to hide, or any reason to think that our perfectly healthy and loved dog would be taken from our very very nice loving home. We didn't even think to use google first or to seek further advice.

they haven't left us any details as to where our dog is however we are leaving it up to the solicitor to do all communications. Apparently we are entitled to be sent pictures and videos every day at the least as we cannot visit him because of covid. (Funny that they could still come into our home, without PPE though)...

I highly doubt they were fakes, we've googled the inspectors name and he is all over the internet but everything they I have seen so far is genuine animal cruelty.

We've been advised not to post much on the internet (at least not using really names etc) as apparently the rspca like to trawl the internet for what you do post. However I'd absolutely love to post pictures and videos of our very healthy happy dog in the clean loved warm environment we have here... we've said that if it gets to that point, we will. If his weight etc goes downhill, we will have it documented in pictures. We will take legal action against the rspca if needed.

the internet is full of information such as: the rspca only cares about prosecutions, prosecutions bring advertisement, which bring in more donations.

until yesterday, I never would have ever thought that such disgusting criminal activity took place every single day. I'd have read a story like mine and said nah there is more to that story. If we do get him back we will count our blessings however I keep reading things like 'rspca destroyed healthy pet' etc..

They have definitely acted unlawfully and I cannot believe that they are allowed to do this to people over an ALLEGATION. If you are reported to social services etc for hitting a child, they would investigate before removing a child. It is one big huge scandal and I am so angered by all of it.

I will keep you posted with updates, likely next week as we won't be able to speak with anyone over the weekend.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

The RSPCA is decidedly dodgy. I don’t trust them one bit. I would always donate to specialised charities like Cats Protection. They don’t do private prosecutions any more btw. I think they worked out this was backfiring on them.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2021)

Strawberry27 said:


> (Funny that they could still come into our home, without PPE though)...


Please report this to the Health and Safety Executive. They have no right to put your health at risk like this.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

I know he's come from abroad
But
Could he be considered 'of type'?
This is the only reason I can think of for RSPCA to arrive, with police in tow, and, immediately seize the dog
Dogs don't have to be the actual breed, as far as English justice works, if it looks like a Pitbull, then it is a pitbull and will be seized for just looking like them
IF a member of the public reported a pitbull running at large,
(Most MOP, wouldnt know a Pitbull, from a Chihuahua, to be honest)
With no collar,
Then being 'stuffed' into a van (MOP like using emotive language)
and
Quickly driven away,
both the RSPCA and police may well be suspicious

Having had dealings with the organisation, in a former life, I wouldn't spit on 'an inspector' if they were on fire
However our local affiliated, RSPCA rescue are excellent, so I donate food, blankets, seed and hay directly to them, rather than donate any money (which they don't see anyway)


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

mrs phas said:


> I know he's come from abroad
> But
> Could he be considered 'of type'?
> This is the only reason I can think of for RSPCA to arrive, with police in tow, and, immediately seize the dog
> ...


Thank you for your comment.

no he is more like a thin lab / retriever type mongrel. Not the slightest bit aggressive. I'd love to post videos but I think we better save those for court.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Douglas' Dad said:


> They have no right to put your health at risk like this.


I would have made that a good reason for not letting them in, RSPCA and police. The police I have seen around are all wearing masks and I'm sure they must be issued with them.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Strawberry27 said:


> I'd love to post videos


Be careful (you sound sensible enough not to need telling, but please note) not to use your full name, dog's name, partner's name, RSPCA staff names, where you live etc if there is any chance that this might end in a court case. No photos of the dog . . . RSPCA have ''digital communications officers'' (or did have three of them before their money became depleted) who trawl the internet trying to drum up support. One joined PF some years back, probably in the hope of drumming up RSPCA supporters membership, but quickly vanished as she did not exactly receive a hero's welcome and was asked a lot of questions she could not answer satisfactorily.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Partner has his voluntary interview tomorrow at the police station (his choice) with a solicitor present. Found out the allegation, which is...... wait for it......

that he threw our dog out of the window of the van.

absolutely obsurd. Completely and totally nuts! 

Will let you know how it goes.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I assume they have a witness they can produce !


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Even that would surely have got just a caution.. Going on what I have seen on TV of the RSPCA. Unless my van idea is different from theres. Large vehicle maybe due to height... Its the risk assessment of harm. 

Obviously neither should be done but to be honest I can't see how easy it is to do either


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2021)

Strawberry27 said:


> Partner has his voluntary interview tomorrow at the police station (his choice) with a solicitor present. Found out the allegation, which is...... wait for it......
> 
> that he threw our dog out of the window of the van.
> 
> ...


Outrageous. I hope you get your costs back. I think you can with abuse of process.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> I assume they have a witness they can produce !


So did someone (a ''witness'') see this and take the van number? And RSPCA happy to waste their own and police time? Beggars belief. A savvy solicitor will surely sort this out quickly. But if push were to come to shove and this ended up in court, a specialised solicitor would be needed (the likes of Sara-Lise Howe or Nigel Weller, both of whom are animal welfare specialists). Thank you for getting back to us, @Strawberry27.


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Yes from what we can gather, one of the neighbouring houses to where they park their vehicles for work has likely been watching out of their window. They didn’t know what colour skin anyone had or what breed the dog was so how they could have seen a dog being thrown out of a window is crazy. We think two people from the same household have given a witness statement. no cctv or filming was taken. I do have a feeling that they don’t like that they park vans up there, very rural area which would block their view.

We have a solicitor that the SHG have put us in contact with who is going to threaten to take legal action against the charity if they don’t give us the dog back. He is going to be present at the interview today. 

praying this is sorted but even if they decide that they want to prosecute, they only have a witness statement, surely that is not enough evidence.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2021)

Strawberry27 said:


> Yes from what we can gather, one of the neighbouring houses to where they park their vehicles for work has likely been watching out of their window. They didn't know what colour skin anyone had or what breed the dog was so how they could have seen a dog being thrown out of a window is crazy. We think two people from the same household have given a witness statement. no cctv or filming was taken. I do have a feeling that they don't like that they park vans up there, very rural area which would block their view.
> 
> We have a solicitor that the SHG have put us in contact with who is going to threaten to take legal action against the charity if they don't give us the dog back. He is going to be present at the interview today.
> 
> praying this is sorted but even if they decide that they want to prosecute, they only have a witness statement, surely that is not enough evidence.


It generally isn't. I mean theoretically it can be if the witness is reliable but he or she would have to stand up to some pretty tough cross examination in Court. Liars usually collapse under cross examination. I doubt very much it will pass the Full Code Test for prosecutions.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/code-crown-prosecutors


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## Strawberry27 (Mar 6, 2021)

Douglas' Dad said:


> It generally isn't. I mean theoretically it can be if the witness is reliable but he or she would have to stand up to some pretty tough cross examination in Court. Liars usually collapse under cross examination. I doubt very much it will pass the Full Code Test for prosecutions.
> 
> https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/code-crown-prosecutors


so it would be the CPS who would take the case on if it was to go to court then? 
In my experience with them (I personally know of a case nothing to do with a dog but separately where a minor was assaulted and they would not take the case on due to lack of evidence even though there WAS definite evidence by way of statement / medical report signed by a pead and other things) , he would not be found guilty on the 'evidence' they have. Not in the taxpayers interest for them to take on a case that isn't going to get a conviction. End of hopefully.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2021)

If it is any sort of crime, the CPS has the right to prosecute if it meets what's called the Full Code Test. However, one of the elements of that test is the "public interest" as you rightly point out. If it fails to meet this threshold it won't be taken forward. I would imagine most animal welfare issues fail at this hurdle. But this is where the RSPCA can step in. They can "privately prosecute". This is no special power available to them. It is available to any of us and it is an extremely useful leveller in bringing people to account who the authorities can't be bothered to investigate (eg in small scale financial fraud). However, it has been claimed that the RSPCA has form in misusing private prosecutions for its PR purposes though I understand it will no longer privately prosecute. This means it will be up the CPS to decide if a crime has been committed and if it meets the public interest test to prosecute. Given the CPS won't even prosecute rape these days due to "lack of evidence", draw your own conclusions.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Strawberry27 said:


> Not in the taxpayers interest for them to take on a case that isn't going to get a conviction.


Before CPS will prosecute, there are two tests: a) the evidential test (is there enough evidence?) and b) the public interest test (is it in the public interest to spend money bringing this case?). If we were talking about a sex offender or a child molester, then it would be in the public interest as the person might be a danger to them. R$PCA say that they use the same criteria (only they don't). I'm not sure how soon CPS is supposed to be taking over their prosecutions, whether they already have. @Douglas' Dad  - do you know?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Douglas' Dad said:


> the RSPCA has form in misusing private prosecutions for its PR purposes


The reason usually suggested for doing this is that when people see a photo of an abused animal being ''rescued'' by one of their uniformed staff complete with ''before and after'' photos, the donations roll in; and that they especially like the ''high profile'' cases which get into the papers as that reaches more potential donators. Other charities have the same technique - CPS send me raffle tickets with a heart-tugging tale of kittens found in a cardboard box in a lay-by etc, and a before and after picture. The difference is they do not prosecute - it encourages people to spend a tenner on the raffle tickets.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

I hope you have your lovely dog back very soon. You must be so worried about him xx


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## neverforgotten2020 (Feb 17, 2021)

I am so sorry that you are still going through this. Strangely enough when I first read your post about the work vans parking there, it did cross my mind that there may be some ill feeling from the local community. If people have ‘their’ view spoiled or ‘their’ unallocated but favoured parking space used by vans in particular, things can get out of control. I know that this may not be the case here, but I would expect that they have times, dates and van registrations all noted down if they have complained before. It is interesting to see that they said the dog was thrown out of the van. Why would the van over then try to desperately get the dog back in the van? Hopefully this is settled soon and you will be reunited with your dog soon.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

neverforgotten2020 said:


> If people have 'their' view spoiled or 'their' unallocated but favoured parking space


That is so true: one of my neighbours was like a soul in torment when a van parked outside her house as it spoiled her ''view'' which was not an alpine landscape, just a few houses across the road. But she would not let it go: she took a picture of the registration, she posted that and a picture of the ''van'' on Nextdoor. He was parked there quite legally, but some of the snipey neighbours on Nextdoor were urging her to check if the van had road tax, insurance and the like. I decided to put a spoke in the wheel by saying ''Are you sure it's not a minibus - it's got sliding doors and side windows'' and she went berzerk! It doesn't matter if it's a van or a minibus, you are missing the point (as if!) it shouldn't be there, that's where I park. Then some guy joined in and said, yes, he agreed, it was a minibus and that got her incandescent with rage again!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

@Strawberry27: Any update yet about what is happening with your dog?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Calvine said:


> @Strawberry27: Any update yet about what is happening with your dog?


Damn! I was hoping that's why this thread had made it back onto on the first page. 

Thanks for bumping it up though.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> Damn! I was hoping that's why this thread had made it back onto on the first page.
> 
> Thanks for bumping it up though.


I tend to worry when people don't come back. Hope all is well.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

I've been thinking about this story too.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

In the worst case scenario, and if this is possibly going to court, then she is well-advised to stay low key on a forum such as this one and say little or nothing which might adversely affect the case.


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