# bunny with sore front feet :(



## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi all, I'm new to this so hope this is the right place to post this. 
Urgently need some advice for my bunny. I have two 8 month old mini lops and they live outside in separate hutches. Fudge has developed really sore front feet, the skin on the soles of his feet are red and can't see much fur on them. He keeps the left one up in the air constantly as it must be painful to put down on the ground. Took him to vets and they have no idea what it is  they have given him steroids and told us to bathe his front feet in salt water. That was two days ago and there has been no improvement. The vet wants to see us again on Tuesday. They suggested it was an allergy. All they have is hay and straw,I do not use cleaning chemicals on their hutches. 
Has anyone had anything similar with their bunnies? 
He is unhappy with this pain and it is making a loving bunny aggressive so we can't handle him very well to bathe his feet.
Any advice would be appreciated 
Thanks


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Is he washing his face/mouth constantly? they tend to do this if thy have teeth problems.

My other train of thought is it could be a fungal infection. Your vets can run tests for this.

If you've used pine shavings at all it could be an allergy to that. 

Does he have a run attached to him hutch? If he's bored he may have been scratching at the wire mesh trying to get out. 

Sores are more common on the bottom of back feet in rabbits known as sore hocks which are very difficult to treat. You can use a variety of ointments like sudocreme and vetsalve but I would stick to your vets advice.

Ensure he has a good thick bed to take the pressure off his feet. Also ensure he's cleaned out daily to prevent infection.

I would also reccomend hibiscrub for sores. He needs pain relief until they heal too.

I'd be interested in photos if your able to take any without stressing him. Obviously none of us here are vets but many are experienced bunny owners.


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks for the reply.
He isn't washing his face constantly but he is licking the sore feet quite a lot. 
He has a litter tray in his hutch that we put shavings in but since his feet got sore we have changed to a paper pellet litter in case it was the wood shavings. 

He doesn't have a run but we try to get him out for exercise everyday but he doesn't like to come out for some reason. We got both our bunnies at the same time and the other one likes to be out constantly but fudge isn't so keen. He has always liked attention but not being picked up out of the hutch. So it's almost impossible to get him out now he's in pain. Very aggressive and skittish when he wasn't before. 
I will try and get a picture uploaded tomorrow.
It's almost like the fur has gone from his pads and the edge of his toe. 
Our other bunny smudge has thick fur on his pads so it's more obvious how bald fudges have become 

Thanks for the advice.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Poor chap I hope he's better soon.

Wee and pine isn't a good mix as the amonia in the wee mixes with the oils in the pine. Hopefully the change in litter will help buts it's strange his back feet are ok.

Rabbits hate being picked up because its similar to an animal picking them up to eat them, they like to keep both feet on the ground. Try to attach a run to his hutch so he can come and go as he pleases. Exercise is vital otherwise they can get muscle wastage. 

I just have a hatch between my bunnies Wendy house and run and leave it open all the time. Other people put hutches in sheds or there are tunnels you can buy to connect hutches and runs. There's a set up thread in the rabbit section with some pictures for ideas.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Hello and welcome.

I've never seen a rabbit with sore front feet before, only sore hocks. Is he a digger? You might need to discourage this while the vet works out what is wrong. It sounds horrible. Because buns use their front paws to clean you will have to be very careful what you use on them as he will, when cleaning, ingest.
Is the vet running some tests?

I am assuming your bun isn't overweight, and the nails aren't too long?

What type of rabbit is it? Rexes are more prone to sore feet.

And are the back feet unaffected.

I would stop using anything other than a layer of deep, high quality hay with newspaper underneath for now. that will help cushion his feet.

do keep him superclean.

And get some Metacam from the vets. He needs painkillers.

this isn't likely to go away quickly sadly. Please do make sure you are seeing a rabbit savvy vet.

Hopefully Stormythai and Lilmiss will come on with some more advice.


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi all,
Thanks for the responses appreciated &#128522;

He digs sometimes but is hardly doing anything lately as his feet are too sore 
He is a mini lop, definitely not overweight,if anything he's lighter than he was in Summer. His nails are grtting a bit long at the minute as we are struggling to handle him. 
His back feet are fine with fur still on them,although the very edge of his toes are going red. 

We have been back to the vets today and saw a different vet from last time and still no luck. They have given me surolan ear drops to rub in his feet and charged me £56 and told me to take him back in ten days. However the vet said the steroid injection that fudge had two days ago wouldn't have had time to work yet. Not sure why the first vet didn't explain this. 

I will put a picture up in a minute. 
Hope someone has experienced something similar as we've got a sad bunny here and its hard to see  

Thanks


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Here's the picture of his feet, bless him. 
Forgot to say that the vet hasnt suggested tests and hasn't given me painkillers. 

Thanks


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Wow, I've never seen anything like that before!

I'd be asking for tests, if just to rule out any kind of parasitic or fungal infection, and yes, if it is causing him pain then painkillers are a MUST. Rabbits in pain often stop eating ,which leads to digestive issues, possibly even gut stasis. 

Besides.... if your feet were that sore, I'm sure you'd be grateful for anything that took the stinging away


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

I've never seen anything like that either. Poor little chap they look so sore

They don't look like pressure sores as there not localised to the pads. He's lost all the fur almost like he's dipped the bottoms in something, he's defiantly not been near any nasties like patio cleaners? 

I think the steroid injections will help reduce the inflammation in his body. The ear drops will make his skin feet more comfortable and less itchy, quite a good idea of your vets. You could see if the steroid injection and drops make any differene over the next 2 weeks. Photos are a really good way of keeping track of these conditions. 

Do you mid me asking roughly where you live we might be able to reccomend a good vet for a second opinion near you if he doesn't improve. 

My biggest concern is it may well be 3 month before new fur grows through and in that time he could develop sores on the bare skin.


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

We live in Durham, not sure if there are any specialist bunny vets nearby. 

Nope he can't have been near chemicals, we have a side of the garden fenced off for them to run around and always make sure it's safe. 
Im out of ideas. 

He's licking them a lot and boxing the air. 
Been giving him lots of treats and wooden toys to try and occupy him rather than licking his feet in case thats making it worse. 

On a positive, he is eating and drinking totally fine, loves his cabbage leaves and Apple slice  


Thanks


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Hmm I can't think of any vets near you. If there's no improvement in 2 weeks you can contact the RWAF who can advise you of vets nearby http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/?section=veterinary.html#good_vet

Reading this website there are a few bald paw photos, some of the images arnt particularly nice so don't look if your squeamish Medirabbit

The book that site refers to would be an interesting read for you and your vet but its quite pricey. Skin Diseases of Rabbits:Amazon.co.uk:Books

Some of the bacterial infections that can cause skin issues can be passed on so best to wear gloves if you can if not wash your hands really well after handling him.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Please don't take this the wrong way but is there any chance he could be sitting in his own urine?

The only time I have seen feet like that was due to urine burns 

I would be tempted to clean them thoroughly, then coat with antibiotic cream and then wrap the feet up changing the bandage twice a day.

Abbey Vets are in Durham I think Rabbits: Abbey Vets, accredited Veterinary Practice based in the City of Durham, and in Chester-le-Street.

He needs pain relief that's for sure


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## bunnybear (Jan 18, 2014)

Aw poor baby. I've never seen that before. I hope that the vets can work out what is wrong quickly. In the meantime I hope he isn't in too much pain.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way but is there any chance he could be sitting in his own urine?
> 
> The only time I have seen feet like that was due to urine burns
> 
> ...


I agree totally with stormythai. Also what about getting him a corner tray with special litter pellets for small animals? Pharmacies will probably have some bandages.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Looks like something his feet have been in contact with has caused the damage. Nails certainly need trimming. I'd be after a definite opinion from a decent vet. Not sure what good surolan would do. I'd prefer sudocrem and wrap them like stormy says. Substrate of vet bed to keep them clean. And s r scrupulous hygiene to limit risk of infection


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

binkybunny said:


> I agree totally with stormythai. Also what about getting him a corner tray with special litter pellets for small animals? Pharmacies will probably have some bandages.


We have used dressings topped with fingers from gloves, held in place with micropore for a paralysed rabbit with sore hocks; but you have to be very careful not to dress too tightly - really needs a good vet to show you how.

First and foremost, poor bunny needs regular painkillers. We use Metacam which is an anti inflammatory, but your bun will need something compatible with steroids if he has already had an injection.

(Stormythai - I think that Tramadol is OK with steroids?????

It needs proper investigation for underlying cause; the bedding needs to be soft throughout - a deep, squashy bed of hay everywhere - we also used a dog cushion and very soft pile blankets, to reduce pressure and friction - picture us in the pet shop, rubbing our faces on all the dog cushions until we found the perfect one! It didn't go without comment.:blushing:

I wouldn't let him out to dig, but do distract him with things to chew at, such as apple tree branches.

(Stormythai - Would willow be OK? It is a natural painkiller and contains salicin, but is that compatible with steroids?)

PLease also have a read of this.

rabbits which chew their feet or body

It can be hard to know what came first - licking and chewing, or some sort of irritant.

Do let us know how bun does  -that's how we all learn.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Summersky said:


> (Stormythai - I think that Tramadol is OK with steroids?????


Yes Tramadol is safe alongside Steriods.



Summersky said:


> (Stormythai - Would willow be OK? It is a natural painkiller and contains salicin, but is that compatible with steroids?)


As far as I am aware willow is safe to feed alongside steriods but it would be best to confirm this with your vet


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi all, 
Thanks for the responses.

Not a major change with bunny. 
Although he enjoyed his xmas I think as he loves sprouts 
We have been using surolan twice a day as the vet advised. This is all the vet gave us and the one steroid injection that he gave fudge on his first visit. I think the surolan must be doing something as he seems to like us putting it on him. 

As for his litter tray, I have already said previously he has a corner litter tray that we change twice a day,so not really a chance for it to be from his urine. We changed from wood shavings to paper pellets in case the shavings were causing the problems. Also his back feet are still furry and if it was urine, I would imagine all feet would be affected? 

Emzybabe - you mentioned it would take 3 month for the fur to grow back. So is it possible he could get better and would stop licking his feet,but it would still look poorly untill the fur grows back.? 

On the whole, he has stopped so being aggressive and is a little bit back to his normal personality so that's a positive.
Both my buns love Apple branches but never tried willow. Do the pet shops sell pre cut ones? 

Thanks


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2014)

Fur doesn't necessarily take 3 months to grow back. Princess got injured when we first got her and half of the hair on the side of her body had gone. It took her about 2 months to grow hers back but her coat is medium length so it could take longer or shorter time to grow. Time will vary. As for hay, I would get dust extracted because that could cause irritation to the feet to, what about paper bedding? Paper bedding can be quite cost efficient and did an amazing job as a clean, safer bedding when my old bun underwent surgery. Have you touched his paw? Do you know what his paw feels like because that could help it be identified and for us/you to find a quick, efficient way to treat it.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Gem2014 said:


> Hi all,
> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> Not a major change with bunny.
> ...


Yes - still bald, but the skin would be a normal colour, not angry and inflamed. You would recognise the difference.

Yes, you can buy them -eg :-

Burgess Excel Nature Snacks - Gnaw Sticks | Quality Chinchilla food | Burgess Pet Care

- although fresh from the garden is best.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Gem2014 said:


> Both my buns love Apple branches but never tried willow. Do the pet shops sell pre cut ones?


They also love willow leaves - not that you'll find many at this time of year. But it's natural for wild rabbits to eat tree bark in winter, when there's not much else around. Any type of willow is edible, even Weeping Willow, which you might find in gardens, or near a river. We are completely surrounded by willow where I live (it's even planted along the roadsides to help stop subsidence) but I appreciate it can be harder to find elsewhere!


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Oh we have a small weeping willow in the garden! I just thought about buying some in case they are treated to be pet safe. As you can probably tell,I'm paranoid about what I give the bunnies since this has happened.

As for the skin,when we rub the surolan in, his little pads feel hard and calloused. Not sure if that helps for any diagnosis?

Thanks


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Gem2014 said:


> I just thought about buying some in case they are treated to be pet safe.


It's the other way around - if the tree _hasn't_ been treated or sprayed with anything, then it's safe.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

I wonder if when he has been trying to get to your other rabbit and scrabbled his feet sore by trying to dig out of his hutch/run? Is he neutered yet? What sex is the other rabbit? It might explain his behavioural side too. Are the 2 hutches close to each other?


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Gem2014 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Emzybabe - you mentioned it would take 3 month for the fur to grow back. So is it possible he could get better and would stop licking his feet,but it would still look poorly untill the fur grow


My experience of sore hocks and urine burns on the back end, once the issue is resolved it can take month for the fur to grow back, sometime until the next moult. However this has both been with old bunnies, wih a younger bunny I would expect healing and fur growth to be a bit quicker. You may see a tiny bit of growth in the next 6 weeks but it will take months to go back to normal.

I wouldn't reccomend bandaging as they will chew these off and the sores need to breath to heal. I have know people put collars on rabbits but they then struggle to drink and eat.

If his pads and sores feel hard I would think this is a sign the healing process is starting. I would expect them to be swollen and weeping if he was still reacting.

Glad he's calming down


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi all,
Not good news unfortunately, the surolan seemed to ease fudge's discomfort. But we have now noticed that on his back feet, the tops of his toes seem to be going bald and the inside of one of his hind legs has really thin fur, in comparison with the fur on his other inner hind leg  
Then today we noticed the backs of his back feet, hocks I think?, now have sores on them. This is probably because he is holding his feet up a lot and sitting on just his back feet and also he can't exercise much. Really upsetting  
I have found a local vet that have a rabbit trained vet at their practice so taking him as soon as possible. 
Fingers crossed,she will be able to find out the problem.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Flipping heck. Hope you get an answer soon. Let us know what the new vet says :thumbup1:


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

So sorry to hear he's no better, a good vet it's worth their weight in gold, you come away feeling reassured. Let us know what they say. 

Fur loss can be from a food allergy as well as bedding. There are a lot of junk and common allergens in rabbit pellets, soya is used in a lot of pellets and its usually GM too, there fortified with man made vitamins and minerals too. I wouldn't reccomend changing or remoivig pellets without discussing with your vet. I have know gineapigs be allergic to hay as a bedding material, you could try vet bed fleece.

For sore hock I have used vetsalve and sudocrem there are also some articles about using new skin products successfully, when I've used these on myself they sting like mad so I've never wanted to try on a rabbit.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

I've just had a read of this, very interesting point about parsley 
Food allergies not uncommon in house rabbits - Dayton small pets | Examiner.com


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi everyone,

Well, fudge has been to a rabbit savvy vet last week for a second opinion and not great news. Apparently steroids aren't good for bunnies so the first vet shouldn't have given him the steroid injection or surolan. And steroids weaken the immune system so could possibly have worsened his symptoms. 
New vet has given him an antihistamine injection and antihistamine tablets to take twice a day for two weeks. And an anti fungal cream for his feet, f10 it says on it I think. 
And still no improvement  if anything the toes on his back feet are now much worse when it was only the front before. We can literally see all of his toes on the top, little pink sticks, no fur at all. Bottoms of back feet are now going thin, one much worse than the other. 
Also he flinches now when we rub the cream on his feet and he never did with the surolan so worried it may be stinging him. There aren't any open sores or anything, just red sore skin and no fur. 
The vet also mentioned the possibility of parasites, but we never see him itch really and I've never seen any on his fur. Are they visible to the human eye??
Didn't realise how stressful bunnies can be. Just wish he'd get better. 
As always, any advice/ideas/similar experience welcomed.

On a positive, both my buns are now loving parsley! Thanks for that tip.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2015)

Could you get another pic up.
I didn't know that steroids weakened the immune system. Have you tried the bandages yet? 
Maybe some thick bandages around the sores will make it easier to excersize. Is he neutered? Outside? Or near the other bun? 
If he is near the other bun, is there any possibility that he could be moved away or the other bun? As lopside as mentioned, it could be his urge to get to her, it is nearing mating season. 
I don't think many of us are professional vets, although many of us have a lot of experience, w can't necessarily say "right he's got ringworm." 
BTW, It might be an idea to put gloves on when you touch him incase it is something like ringworm as it can spread to humans too. 
<<sending happy hope vibes>>


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi,

Bunnies are outdoor bunnies, both boys, housed separately. (We've got snow here tonight too so they are getting wrapped up well, hutch cover,blankets,and a mountain of hay) Fudge has no interest at all in the other one, little smudge, doesn't even really acknowledge him. Smudge can be out playing jumping around and fudge snuggles down to snooze so don't think his problem could be anything to do with smudge. 
Tried to use bandages and it didn't go down well,just kicked and got stressed so they came off. 
Can ringworm cause fur loss?
He's due back at the vets early next week but as of yet no improvement. 

On a separate issue, does anyone's bunnies sneeze? Might be a silly question but I panicked when I read about snuffles online. It's only now and again but both of mine do. Fudge also makes snuffle noises but not constant. 
Analysing their every move at the moment. Paranoid owner alert :001_unsure:


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Ok with the additional information I think I may have found the cause...

Over grooming (self mutilation) from being kept alone but close enough to be able to see and smell a friend.
Rabbits are extremely social animals so being kept alone can cause issues such as over grooming.

I would recommend getting a skin scrap to make sure no parasites are lurking, and after that I would seriously have a think about bonding your guys to each other or getting them spayed wifebuns (so long as they have also had their furry teabags removed.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

binkybunny said:


> Could you get another pic up.
> I didn't know that steroids weakened the immune system. Have you tried the bandages yet?
> *Maybe some thick bandages around the sores *will make it easier to excersize. Is he neutered? Outside? Or near the other bun?
> If he is near the other bun, is there any possibility that he could be moved away or the other bun? As lopside as mentioned, it could be his urge to get to her, it is nearing mating season.
> ...


Can work, but should only be done on experienced vet's advice and with guidance (last thing you want is to do them too tightly).

We used dressing/finger from glove and micropore in the past. Apols if I have said that once already anywhere.



Gem2014 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Bunnies are outdoor bunnies, both boys, housed separately. (We've got snow here tonight too so they are getting wrapped up well, hutch cover,blankets,and a mountain of hay) Fudge has no interest at all in the other one, little smudge, doesn't even really acknowledge him. Smudge can be out playing jumping around and fudge snuggles down to snooze so don't think his problem could be anything to do with smudge.
> Tried to use bandages and it didn't go down well,just kicked and got stressed so they came off.
> ...


Very occasionally, like us, is OK. More than that - get it checked.

Snuffles is just an old fashioned umbrella term.



StormyThai said:


> Ok with the additional information I think I may have found the cause...
> 
> *Over grooming (self mutilation)* from being kept alone but close enough to be able to see and smell a friend.
> Rabbits are extremely social animals so being kept alone can cause issues such as over grooming.
> ...


Definitely a possibility of the vet has ruled out other possible causes - do read the link I put in my earlier post re self mutilation in rabbits.



Summersky said:


> We have used dressings topped with fingers from gloves, held in place with micropore for a paralysed rabbit with sore hocks; but you have to be very careful not to dress too tightly - really needs a good vet to show you how.
> 
> First and foremost, poor bunny needs regular painkillers. We use Metacam which is an anti inflammatory, but your bun will need something compatible with steroids if he has already had an injection.
> 
> ...


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

There is a Facebook page called The Rabbit Crossing. It's a wonderful rescue and they have a troublesome doe there called Ellie T who is a naughty bun for self mutilating herself. Might be worth getting in touch with them. I know she's helped someone on here before with advice


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## Gem2014 (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks everyone 
I will update after our next vet visit. 
That article is really interesting, luckily with fudge there is never any blood or bites. Just as if the fur has been pulled out or dropped out. He has a lot of wooden toys and endless treats. Got him a gnaw stone yesterday. We've been making brown paper parcels of treats that he has to hunt for and chew open in his hutch. Trying our best to keep him entertained for longer. 
We noticed today that some of the fur on top of his Front toes is growing back through so hopefully that will continue. 
I have attached a little pic of him enjoying his willow ball this morning.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

No amount of toys or chew sticks are a match for a friend


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