# Spaying an older dog. Pros and cons ?



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

What are your thoughts on this ? Tango is 11 in a couple of weeks and we were told when we rescued her at 9 yrs old that she'd been spayed. 2 obvious seasons since then have disproved that information.
I had almost decided not to spay as she is at such minmal risk of accidental mating.
The issues that worry me if not spayed are Pyometria and obvious distress when in the fertile phase.
For spaying - remove Pyometria risk and hormonal fluctuations .
Against - possible incontinence , surgery/anaesthesia complications ,weight gain, detrimental changes in temperament .(she's already a timid, submissive little dog )
Oh dear , what to do ??
The vet has not influenced me either way ,but we have discussed spay if she needs surgery for other conditions.
Please help !


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I wouldn't bother, if she lasted 11 years with no problems, I don't see the point in spaying her. What sort of dog is she?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

She's a miniature wirehaired dachshund.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

SusieRainbow said:


> What are your thoughts on this ? Tango is 11 in a couple of weeks and we were told when we rescued her at 9 yrs old that she'd been spayed. 2 obvious seasons since then have disproved that information.
> I had almost decided not to spay as she is at such minmal risk of accidental mating.
> The issues that worry me if not spayed are Pyometria and obvious distress when in the fertile phase.
> For spaying - remove Pyometria risk and hormonal fluctuations .
> ...


On the anaesthesia and procedure worry, If she is otherwise fit and healthy for her age then it shouldn't pose huge risks. Vets will usually offer pre op blood tests too, which will tell you about her general health, how her vital organs kidneys, liver etc are working, red blood cell counts and platelets etc.
These together with a full physical exam to check heart and lung function amongst other things, should give you are full appraisal and alert to any possible risks where extra care may have to be taken during anaesthetic. The medications used for pre and anaesthesia and the monitoring in many practices are now akin to the human equivalent too. So really it doesn't need to be a high risk and worry in an older dog. Im sure that your practice would be happy to discuss things with you too and explain the procedures.

If you spay around 12/13 weeks after a season then the raised hormone levels that can cause problems like phantom pregnancies and uterine infections like pyometra should have passed. It also means that any external and internal changes and things like increased blood supplies have returned to normal, making the surgery easier and less risk of things like bleeding during the operation. As some forms of urinary sphinchter incompetence is linked to hormones, its also believed spaying at this time reduces the risks in that area too. Should the worst happen then there are very efficient medications that can stop urinary spinchter incompetence in spayed bitches anyway.

Although her risks of unwanted matings are probably minimal and can be excluded altogether with management, the risks of uterine infections and things like pyometra do increase more still with age. Although the decrease of mammary tumour risks are related more to earlier on spaying rather then greater age spaying, some forms of mammary cancers like humans I believe are also hormone dependant based still, so it may possibly still help in older age. After all that's why estrogen and other hormone blockers like tomoxifen are given to human breast cancer patients with hormone dependant cancers after surgery and treatment, so I would assume there may still be an element of benefit in that region in canines perhaps even if spayed later on perhaps.

Should she be unfortuanate to develop pyometra then the only real treatment is an emergency spay anyway, so you cant waita then it has to be carried out immediately, and the older she becomes there may be more risks then anaesthesia and procedure wise as by them she may have also developed other conditions like reduced heart, kidney or liver function making it more risky. Phantom pregnancies and complications that can come with it can sometimes be worse for an older bitch to deal with too.

Weight gain I have never found to be a problem in bitches I have had, and if they should develop a bit of an inclination to put on a bit of weight, then that can be solved with diet, either a different one and or a reduction of amount.

The only real thing left may be changes in temperament that's left on the list.
Then again bitches can have changes in temprement at season time anyway, like being more antsy with other bitches and even males, other dogs including bitches can be funny with them, if they develop phantoms it can also make them clingey, whiney, miserable, and do things like collecting up inanimate objects, nesting and even producing milk should they get a phantom pregnancy.

At the end of the day its only something that you can decide as to what may be the best thing to do and if so when. Your vet seems good in the fact they haven't tried to influence you one way or the other, but it may be the best thing to have a chat to your vet about all the pros and cons, and then see how you feel or want to proceed then.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Has anyone else been in this quandary ? I'm probably over-thinking it all far too much but just want whatever's best for her. The mammary lump I posted about last week was thought by the vet to be directly linked to the seasonal hormones and she thought a ' wait and see ' approach for a few weeks was best unless it changes at all. If the lump does need removal she could probably be spayed at the same time.
She's such a sweet old girl I don't want to rock the boat with her. 
Statistically what are the chances of Pyo ?
With Reena at 4 years old I'm in no doubt , after her next season she'll be spayed after the appropriate interval.


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## pinklizzy (Dec 19, 2009)

I had a 10-11 year old bitch that rehomed spayed as I was concerned about her developing a pyo and potentially having to undergo a GA with the added stressor of being unwell. She had bloods done prior to the anaesthetic which were all clear and she recovered really well.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I rescued Gem when she was 9 years old. She was spayed at nearly 10 year old and she was absolutely fine. She bounced back in no time at all. 

I did have the pre bloods before the operation.

I never considered her age to be honest. She was a rescue, hence it was one of the criteria. Although in all fairness I do not think that there would have been any come back from the rescue if I had not bothered. However, I do like to follow rules and regulations so that's why she was spayed.

Quite recently I have seen two of my friends dog develop pyrometria as elderly dogs. It was not nice to see they were very ill dogs. Recovery time seemed an eternity. Although in all fairness one was 14 at the time, and I think this just highlighted she was not in the best of health so obviously recovery will be a lot slower.

If Tango is happy and healthy, I would definitely have her neutered. Far easier to do major surgery on a healthy dog, than an unhealthy one.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

SusieRainbow said:


> Has anyone else been in this quandary ? I'm probably over-thinking it all far too much but just want whatever's best for her. The mammary lump I posted about last week was thought by the vet to be directly linked to the seasonal hormones and she thought a ' wait and see ' approach for a few weeks was best unless it changes at all. If the lump does need removal she could probably be spayed at the same time.
> She's such a sweet old girl I don't want to rock the boat with her.
> Statistically what are the chances of Pyo ?
> With Reena at 4 years old I'm in no doubt , after her next season she'll be spayed after the appropriate interval.


For what it's worth, here is my VERY limited experience with this issue ( as I've had mainly boys):

We HAD to have our nearly 10 year old Springer Spaniel emergency spayed as she HAD developed pyometra. To this day, many years later, I can't talk about it without getting murderously angry because my girl nearly died she got so sick. The reason she got so very sick was because a doodlebrained, space cadet vet kept telling me "she is fine, just having a funny season" after I had traipsed back and forth to the surgery with her. many times.

Turns out she didn't have "a funny season" - whatever this might mean, but I was too young and inexperieced to second-guess- she had full blown pyometra.

After she recovered from it - which took a bit - my previously svelte girl put on weight with record speed. I fed her less and less ...at one point she had a small handfull of kibble x day...and she blew up more and more. No kidding it was as if somebody slowly inflated via a bicycle pump. Mercifully she was as fit as a flea so I just kept on increasing the offleash exercise ( at one point that was 3 hours. Daily) with not great success. The dog seemed to literally gain weight on air.

She was perpetually hungry - unsurprising on that small amount of food - which was hard on her ..and me.

Her fur changed from glossy to a sort of dullish puppyfuzz and shed continuously by the bucket load ( least of my worries).

She didn't leak...soon after, anyhow, .... and I never noticed any behavioural changes. She was always a very mellow, happy, social dog ( typical Springer) and remained so.

Not sure what you will make of the above or whether it is of any use. If you would ask me whether, given the above, I would ELECT to have an older dog spayed...stupid as it sounds, I honestly don't know.

Dealing with Pyometra is NOT a bundle of laughs, least of all with an incorrectly/too late diagnosed one. When I said "she nearly died"....she really VERY nearly died. From sepsis.

Whether she would/could have bounced back from an emergency spay at 11, 12, 14....hmmm, I don't know.

On the other hand, it was really hard to see my chirpy lass forever ravenous and her gaining HUGE amounts of weight anyhow. TBH I did get it off her eventually but it took YEARS. You don't know what hormones do with weight until you suddenly no longer have them.

Whilst I cannot tell you what I would do if I had a healthy 10 year old in front of me....even though after Ziggy's horror story I'd have every 4 or 5 yr year old spayed without concerns ....I wish you incredible luck with whatever you go with.

Probably the ONLY useful thing to take away from the above - NEVER be blown off by your vet when you think something's not right with her season. Throw a tantrum, take her to another vet, insist on a second opinion. But please don't do what I did and just meekly go home. Over and over. As long as you are vigilant, you should be fine with or without a spay.

Best


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Thank you very much for sharing this, it highlights all my concerns. Tango is on the tubby side despite careful feeding , she's a total food addict. If I give her any less she forages.
I have the confidence in myself and my vets to recognise abnormalities such as pyo - I believe loss of appetite is one of the early symptoms and that alone would send me into panic mode and to the vets.
She's such a happy little girl, just as I said quite timid and submissive , I'd hate to make that worse.
There's no clearcut answer to this, is there ?


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

SusieRainbow said:


> There's no clearcut answer to this, is there ?


No...but wouldn't it be heavenly to have one??!!!!

Sigh.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I have never had weight gain in my spayed dogs. You sound like you monitor Tango's weight (rightly so) so you would know when to feed less. Remember dogs get slower as they are older so naturally will need less food. Gem is now 17 and she was at the vets for a booster last week. I was told that I have kept her lean, which is exactly the right thing to do, and I was also told it is a rare to see a dog this age in this condition. I was very pleased. So spaying really would not make a difference.

If Tango seems ravenous when not fed the amount, it might be an idea to look at changing food, or adding more veg or something so she feels fuller for longer. Although saying that, it might be just a bit of an ingrained habit. Occasionally when I watch RSPCA programmes on TV and they showed a starved dog, offer food and the dog gulps the food down in one go and they say see s/he is starving. I swear my dogs would do the same.

On your concerns on temperament. I really have never noticed a change in my bitches who have been spayed. My vets have always spayed at the best time, and no signs of a phantom pregnancy is a must too.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

SusieRainbow said:


> Thank you very much for sharing this, it highlights all my concerns. Tango is on the tubby side despite careful feeding , she's a total food addict. If I give her any less she forages.
> I have the confidence in myself and my vets to recognise abnormalities such as pyo - I believe loss of appetite is one of the early symptoms and that alone would send me into panic mode and to the vets.
> She's such a happy little girl, just as I said quite timid and submissive , I'd hate to make that worse.
> There's no clearcut answer to this, is there ?


There is no complete answer no, there is two options though, and that would be either to wait and hope she never develops a uterine infection or pyometra or any other hormone/entire problems and make sure you familiarise yourself with the symptoms so should she get pyometra you can have it dealt with immediately, or have her spayed now when you know she doesn't have any health problems particularly those associated with older age, and know with certainly in respect of uterine, or phantom related problems you are not going to have any for certain.

I haven't ever explored the statistics of pyometra in older dogs, that's perhaps something you could also ask your vet about, but out of four bitches that belonged to members of my family in the past 3 went on to develop it in older age.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> There is no complete answer no, there is two options though, and that would be either to wait and hope she never develops a uterine infection or pyometra or any other hormone/entire problems and make sure you familiarise yourself with the symptoms so should she get pyometra you can have it dealt with immediately, or have her spayed now when you know she doesn't have any health problems particularly those associated with older age, and know with certainly in respect of uterine, or phantom related problems you are not going to have any for certain.
> 
> I haven't ever explored the statistics of pyometra in older dogs, that's perhaps something you could also ask your vet about, but out of four bitches that belonged to members of my family in the past 3 went on to develop it in older age.


That makes perfect sense, I think you've convinced me.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

SusieRainbow said:


> That makes perfect sense, I think you've convinced me.


If you do decide to have your bitch spayed, you could always opt for the keyhole procedure as it would appear to be a gentler procedure and the recovery period is so much quicker.


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## Kathyvet (Aug 24, 2014)

Hi there,

It is a really difficult decision to make but what you have to remember is that to spay now (3 months post season) when she is otherwise healthy is much safer than spaying her because she has a pyometra. We see a lot of older dogs develop pyometras and then have to have emergency surgery. It is all very well looking out for the signs etc but sometimes they can be quite ill before you may notice anything. 
In terms of incontinence post spay this is said to be more related to spaying young and spaying her now will make no difference as to the chance of her developing mammary tumours. You need to spay them young to reduce the incidence of mammary tumours. 
So the most sensible advice would be try and get a bit of weight off her now pre-op (makes the procedure easier and therefore quicker) and then have her spayed 3mo post season. Be sure to reduce her food after she has had the op as she may be more likely to gain weight. 

Kathy


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I think you've already been given all the info I have on spaying, basically it's pyo that's the real worry, it's a nasty thing to get and see.

As other's have said urinary incontinence is a possible side-effect, but I know very few dogs that have this due to spaying, and it is easily managed with medication. And age isn't really a problem if she's otherwise healthy, nor is weight gain as long as you keep a close eye on her and reduce feed and up exercise if you notice a bit of podge. 

As for behavioural changes I don't think there's any evidence that spaying changes a bitch's behaviour. There is a possibility of nervous male dogs becoming more nervous if neutered early, but nothing about late spay in bitches. In fact she's likely to be more stable as she won't have all those hormones racing around! 

In the end it's your decision, and only you can decide what's best for you girl


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