# GCCF Breeder Scheme



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm interested to know if breeders are flocking to join this scheme. I have some concerns about how commercial it is and whether membership could be used by councils as evidence that a breeder is running a business. It wasn't voted for, apparently not required as there's no rule change. It's been a purely business decision on the part of the GCCF as a Ltd company and touted as a 'marketing opportunity'. 

I've always been quick to point out that the GCCF is the sum of its members - us. That's obviously no longer the case and I'm quite saddened.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Do you have a link, Havoc?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Google does.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Hmmm so what does it really offer? It's a bit like the KennelCLub scheme - pay to be on a special list and that's about it. I can see how it could be used to make us all businesses by the inland revenue. Hmmm was already thinking of going TICA may do so anyway.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I can see how it could be used to make us all businesses by the inland revenue


That's one bit that concerns me. The very language being used by the GCCF to justify it could be used against us. The GCCF has become a commercial entity. They refer to Agria as their 'business partner' and they are taking decisions totally independently of the membership. I don't feel I belong any more


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

For anyone who hasn't seen it

http://www.gccfcats.org/pdf/CouncilMeetings/Oct12/BreederSchemeProposal.pdf


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> What is to stop anybody just not giving out the feedback form?
>  Nothing - except if we get a lot of kittens registered with no feedback forms we can (randomly) ring the new-owners and ask a few questions. (the code of ethics forms signed by breeders allow us to do this) We will also provide a feedback form on the GCCF Website.


I find this sort of thing quite sinister. How are they going to get the phone numbers of these people? How can a GCCF form allow me as the breeder to give out my buyers' personal information? It isn't the buyers who sign anything agreeing to it.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

For something they hope to be up and running in January 2013 there seems to have been precious little communication about it


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Google does.


I wouldn't have asked if I was able to search for it myself.


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## Golgotha_tramp (Feb 27, 2011)

As a "customer" I see no additional value then I would get speaking, researching and visiting a breeder before buying.

Lots of "pay some money, promise to be good and we'll say you are great. We won't police it or anything and if we hear a lot of complaints we'll bump you back down to a "normal" breeder".


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Reading through the lines, it sounds like paying an annual fee for the right to pay a fee to advertise kittens on the website.

Reminds me of something....

Ah yes, breed club memberships.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

So am I right in thinking that if I buy a kitten from a GCCF registered breeder who has opted NOT to join the scheme, I will still have a GCCF registered kitten? 

Aren't the GCCF just adding a 'VIP' section and charging the breeder for the privilege?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Exactly right - it's a volunteer thing - if you aren't with the scheme you still have pedigree GCCF registered kittens - it's a way for the GCCF to make more money.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

GCCF get enough of my money as it is to register kittens.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

I am not happy about it - but then I am increasingly disillusioned with the GCCF.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I think we have to accept that the GCCF is now a completely commercial organisation and not a cat fancy.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

They aren't though - they are an uneasy hybrid. The commercial side is controlled by politics and personalities rather than what's good for the Cat Fancy. The office staff are not competent and the registrar who does my section is always off sick and they have no cover. Despite 3 years in the job she makes errors all the time. A commercial venture which is service orientated needs to sort the service. GCCF aren't doing this :-(


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The office staff are not competent


Think you and I could sing duets from the same song sheet all day long


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I was very anti this scheme from the moment I first heard about it, mostly for many of the reasons already mentioned in this thread. I've been swayed (somewhat) by debating it long and hard with someone who is instrumental in developing and helping the scheme to get up and running. I've found it quite difficult in some respects to resist her enthusiasm for the scheme; every criticism I've had has been met with 'it's far from perfect but it's a beginning, it will be developed over time.. nothing is set in stone'. 

It's planned for launch on 1st March next year and will be administered such that you can sign up to the scheme, should you wish to do so, every 3 months - i.e. 1st March, 1st June, 1st September, etc, so that your year's membership will run for a year from whatever date you joined. I get the impression from many breeders I've discussed it with that most are going to hang fire, not join initially and just wait and see how the scheme develops.

Personally, I still can't shake off my cynicism and the feeling of 'why should I bother?'.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

messyhearts said:


> Reading through the lines, it sounds like paying an annual fee for the right to pay a fee to advertise kittens on the website.
> 
> Reminds me of something....
> 
> Ah yes, breed club memberships.


At the moment (though like everything with the scheme, details seem to change on an all too frequent basis) it's planned that the fee to advertise kittens on GCCF web site (as a scheme member) will be £5 and the ad will run for 4 weeks. Should you wish to renew the ad after 4 weeks, another £5 will be payable.. and so on.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Personally, I still can't shake off my cynicism and the feeling of 'why should I bother?'.


It isn't so much that with me. It's more that this is not a decision of the membership and therefore not a decision of the GCCF as far as I'm concerned. It's a money making scheme thought up by the 'suits' who now run the GCCF as a business.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> It isn't so much that with me. It's more that this is not a decision of the membership and therefore not a decision of the GCCF as far as I'm concerned. It's a money making scheme thought up by the 'suits' who now run the GCCF as a business.


If the GCCF isn't run as a business it will cease to exist. It has overheads for office, staff and so on and they have to be paid for.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Thank you for that startling insight.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

havoc said:


> It isn't so much that with me. It's more that this is not a decision of the membership and therefore not a decision of the GCCF as far as I'm concerned. It's a money making scheme thought up by the 'suits' who now run the GCCF as a business.


Oh, I agree. Hence my cynicism. The 'why should I bother?' feeling arises because I already do what the enhanced code of ethics (attached to the scheme) requires of me. So I wind up feeling I'm paying for what, exactly?

I've no objection to the GCCF trying to survive and making a bit of money to be ploughed back into the business to improve services, etc. But the scheme is being portrayed as something (to paraphrase) to improve pedigree cat breeding/welfare and to improve the 'buying experience' of those who purchase pedigree kittens. I cannot see that GCCF have, or will have, the funds to make the scheme sufficiently high profile to the general public.

Currently, through the biggest search engine, typing in 'pedigree kittens for sale' gives you Kittenlist, Breeders on Line, Kittenads and Freeads. If I thought that GCCF would (could?) take high profile advertising space on these sites to promote the scheme then I might feel a little different.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Soupie said:


> They aren't though - they are an uneasy hybrid. The commercial side is controlled by politics and personalities rather than what's good for the Cat Fancy. The office staff are not competent and the registrar who does my section is always off sick and they have no cover. Despite 3 years in the job she makes errors all the time. A commercial venture which is service orientated needs to sort the service. GCCF aren't doing this :-(


Agree with this the registrar who does mine always gets paperwork wrong,sent me white cards back with incorrect colour discriptions of the whole litter i rung up to get them changed she said she would not send new ones out and she would make a note of this on the computer and i was to tell this to new owners then when new owners transfered it would all be correct..er no that didnt happen i got a new owner phone me up saying GCCF were trying to charge them to have the correct info put onto the card.  rubbish woman.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> But the scheme is being portrayed as something (to paraphrase) to improve pedigree cat breeding/welfare and to improve the 'buying experience' of those who purchase pedigree kittens


One part of the feedback form asks if the breeder 'encouraged' the buyer to transfer the kitten into their own name. That has nothing whatsoever to do with legal ownership and b*gg*r all to do with welfare.

My club, like many others, gave the GCCF an interest free loan towards this new IT system (the only reason they can now start this scheme). The reason my club could afford to do so was because people like me don't claim back mileage expenses for committee meetings etc. I feel as though I've given the GCCF my money and they've used it to shaft me.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

havoc said:


> One part of the feedback form asks if the breeder 'encouraged' the buyer to transfer the kitten into their own name. That has nothing whatsoever to do with legal ownership and b*gg*r all to do with welfare.


No, it doesn't. You asked earlier in the thread how GCCF were going to obtain new owners' contact details when it came to randomly calling them up to ask why they hadn't returned the feedback form. Seems to me the ONLY way GCCF will be able to obtain new owners' contact details is via the new owner transferring the kitten into their name. Nifty.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> Thank you for that startling insight.


So what would you like the GCCF do to help pay the bills? They could just put up kitten registration and so on...

Do you want it to be run as a 'hobby' organisation which fails financially, or commercially so it is still here in many years time?

No-one is compelled to join the new scheme, and I can't see why it would give any more cause for local authorities etc. to think you are running a business than any other way of advertising kittens including running one's own website.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Do you want it to be run as a 'hobby' organisation which fails financially, or commercially so it is still here in many years time?


Sadly I don't think it will make any difference to me either way. Over the years the organisation has had much of my time and money through my membership of, and service to clubs. I've just started to work it out and my unclaimed expenses would pay my cat litter bill. My kitten sales have all been referals and recommendations for years. Think I'm waking up and smelling the coffee.


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