# Ban smoking outside hospitals



## Guest (Nov 27, 2013)

Its being discussed on Radio 2 your thoughts shout it happen?

I think yes I hate the human rights card being shouted by so many users. Would people honestly say that despite the damage smoking cause not only to ones health but those around?


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I smoke, but I think it should be banned outside hospitals.


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Totally should be!!!

Many of the people smoking are in-patients. They are laid up in their hospital beds but can drag themselves outside for a puff???? Someone want to tell me what is wrong with that picture. 

What I loathe seeing even more, though, is young pregnant women - with bellies that look like they're about to explode - dragging away on their **** like their lives depended on it. I really have to bite my tongue when I walk past them.

When I had my broken ankle a few years back, & had to go to the hospital for check-ups, I had to hobble through all the smoke whilst on crutches which meant I was reeking of the stuff by the time I got inside!!!! :mad5:


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I hate walking through a wall of smoke to go in or out of a hospital 

Have even seen people in nightclothes, sat in a wheelchair, with drip attached, having a *** outside the entrance 

Don't think you will ever stop everyone from doing it though.

Even when they have provided smoking areas, away from the entrance, people can't be arsed to walk a few yards to keep the smoke away from the building.


----------



## BoogieWoogie (Nov 13, 2013)

When I've been to hospitals its mainly the patients that are smoking. Personally I don't see the harm in this, I don't smoke but if someone decides to smoke they should be allowed (as long as it is outside). At the end of the day if they want to smoke they will find a place to do so, either at a designated smoking area placed at the hospital or somewhere much further that could put the patient at risk.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I don't smoke, detest the smell. Find it hard going to see pregnant women or those with children smoking.......but, its addictive and if they smoke when they go into hospital I think there should be somewhere provided for them to smoke so others don't have to walk through it.


----------



## Guest (Nov 27, 2013)

Its really disrespectfull and selfish to smoke near the entrance. 

Maybe they should ban the creation of cigeretts why do they have to be made anyway?


----------



## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I think it would be a very good idea to ban smoking outside hospitals, as others have said having to get to the hospital entrance via a screen of other peoples smoke is horrible.

However, I can see it causing problems, what if a smoker needed to go into hospital for, say, an operation and refused on the grounds that they are not allowed to smoke on hospital grounds?
Rather idiotic person in my mind, but I can see it happening.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Animallover26 said:


> I think it would be a very good idea to ban smoking outside hospitals, as others have said having to get to the hospital entrance via a screen of other peoples smoke is horrible.
> 
> *However, I can see it causing problems, what if a smoker needed to go into hospital for, say, an operation and refused on the grounds that they are not allowed to smoke on hospital grounds?*
> Rather idiotic person in my mind, but I can see it happening.


Knock them off the list and give their slot to someone else


----------



## Guest (Nov 27, 2013)

Animallover26 said:


> I think it would be a very good idea to ban smoking outside hospitals, as others have said having to get to the hospital entrance via a screen of other peoples smoke is horrible.
> 
> *However, I can see it causing problems, what if a smoker needed to go into hospital for, say, an operation and refused on the grounds that they are not allowed to smoke on hospital grounds?*Rather idiotic person in my mind, but I can see it happening.


The real question why do they need go out and endanger their life for the sake of a quick smoke?


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

i smoke, and i dont think it should be banned outside hospitals, or outside anywhere tbh (it's outside fgs), but especially hospitals.

Was always a real struggle getting my mother to go into hospital, no matter how ill she was - she hated those places. i can only imagine how difficult it wouldve been if she knew she wouldnt be able to smoke for the duration of her stay, so i say no. (not that i expect non smokers to give a crap about anything like that, they are too busy whining about more important things like wether their clothes smell slightly of smoke for a moment or 2 or wether they happen to passively breath in a couple of smoke particles)

If people dotn like the passive smoke, dont walk through the smoking area, simple really. I dont know what it's like at your local hopital but at the one near me, the smoking areas are off the thouraghfare. if people are smoking just outside the doors in a non designated area then thats a different story and you can complain all you like about it, but to say there shouldnt even be a designated area-- i couldnt agree with that. Not that it would matter cos people will still smoke anyway.

For some reason it's now seen as ok to persecute smokers at every turn and i personally dont like this attitude shift :thumbdown:


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Prowl said:


> The real question why do they need go out and endanger their life for the sake of a quick smoke?


Same reason as people drink alcohol or eat excessive amounts of food so they are so huge it endangers their life

When did everyone become so intolerant


----------



## Guest (Nov 27, 2013)

porps said:


> i smoke, and i dont think it should be banned outside hospitals, or outside anywhere tbh (it's outside fgs), but especially hospitals.
> 
> Was always a real struggle getting my mother to go into hospital, no matter how ill she was - she hated those places. i can only imagine how difficult it wouldve been if she knew she wouldnt be able to smoke for the duration of her stay, so i say no. (not that i expect non smokers to give a crap about anything like that, they are too busy whining about more important things like wether their clothes smell slightly of smoke for a moment or 2 or wether they happen to passively breath in a couple of smoke particles)
> 
> ...


Because smoking is bad for your health??


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

I just love you lot that walk past smokers and immediately fall about choking and stinking of tobacco for weeks.
Do you stink of chips when when you've been in McDonalds...or fish when you've been in the fishmongers?
If you do and it bothers you...go stick a carrot up your nose......wimps.


----------



## Guest (Nov 27, 2013)

poohdog said:


> I just love you lot that walk past smokers and immediately fall about choking and stinking of tobacco for weeks.
> Do you stink of chips when when you've been in McDonalds...or fish when you've been in the fishmongers?
> If you do and it bothers you...go stick a carrot up your nose......wimps.


When I worked at Costa all my fellow staff members smoked. If I was first on shift my jackets at the bottom of the hangers at the end of the shift my jacket smells like I have smoked 40 **** even though my I havent.

My dad does not smoke but if someone has been in his taxi who smokes 40 a day then he comes home stinking of smoke. Its a nasty smell. Unfortunately people do smoke right outside the doors of the hospital and it looks really awfull.

If anyone smoke a lot anyone who is around you stinks of smoke you can't smell it yourself but others certainly can and the smell of old smoke is really unpleasent when mixed with an overload body deodrant. Its not about weather a persons a wimp because they don't like smell the fact is if you breath in someone elses smoke it can be bad for your health.


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Smoking is an addiction just like any drug so it is useless to tell people to just stop.I dont like people all gathering round the entrance of a hospital but away from there I dont object.I do tend to think the anti smokers do go a bit over the top.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

porps said:


> i smoke, and i dont think it should be banned outside hospitals, or outside anywhere tbh (it's outside fgs), but especially hospitals.
> 
> Was always a real struggle getting my mother to go into hospital, no matter how ill she was - she hated those places. i can only imagine how difficult it wouldve been if she knew she wouldnt be able to smoke for the duration of her stay, so i say no. (not that i expect non smokers to give a crap about anything like that, they are too busy whining about more important things like wether their clothes smell slightly of smoke for a moment or 2 or wether they happen to passively breath in a couple of smoke particles)
> 
> ...


I am a non smoker.already stated my views re hospital stuff.

Its not a case of having to walk through smoke that makes clothes smell for a while.they stink and so does your hair. Anybody can smoke as much as they like as far as I am concerned but I don't want to participate in that.

If I wanted to inhale cig smoke, I would take up smoking. 
I am not jumping on any persecution band wagon either.....bit of consideration for non smokers would go a long way.

Also, its only a matter of time before smoking in all public places and your own car is banned. Thats taking it to the extreme but prob on the cards.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

suewhite said:


> Smoking is an addiction just like any drug so it is useless to tell people to just stop.I dont like people all gathering round the entrance of a hospital but away from there I dont object.I do tend to think the anti smokers do go a bit over the top.


totally agree with you on this......extremes either way are no good.


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

porps said:


> i smoke, and i dont think it should be banned outside hospitals, or outside anywhere tbh (it's outside fgs), but especially hospitals.
> 
> Was always a real struggle getting my mother to go into hospital, no matter how ill she was - she hated those places. i can only imagine how difficult it wouldve been if she knew she wouldnt be able to smoke for the duration of her stay, so i say no. (not that i expect non smokers to give a crap about anything like that, they are too busy whining about more important things like wether their clothes smell slightly of smoke for a moment or 2 or wether they happen to passively breath in a couple of smoke particles)
> 
> ...


I agree with you here actually now thinking about it, if there's a smoking area then I don't really see the problem with it


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

poohdog said:


> I just love you lot that walk past smokers and immediately fall about choking and stinking of tobacco for weeks.
> Do you stink of chips when when you've been in McDonalds...or fish when you've been in the fishmongers?
> If you do and it bothers you...go stick a carrot up your nose......wimps.


If you go somewhere thats smelly and end up smelling of whatever...thats your choice.to walk in or not.

If you have to walk through an entrance at a hospital, where is your choice?


----------



## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Would they have a smoking area designated instead? That might be best. I spent 6 months at the hospital this year and I always found it such a pitiful sight to see people carrying catheter bags and drips- looking so obviously unwell but still needing to feed that addiction. 

Especially so in the stroke unit, a condition for which smoking is a significant risk factor (and you are at much higher risk of another stroke in the days after you've had one)- I saw paralysed people with aphasia being wheeled out by their relatives to smoke. I think it's easy to condemn people for it but I just found it so desperately sad.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Prowl said:


> Because smoking is bad for your health??


so what? that gives you a right to persecute a smoker does it? because they are damaging their own health? Cool, i guess we should persecute self harmers and suicidal people too, right?



lilythepink said:


> I am a non smoker.already stated my views re hospital stuff.
> 
> Its not a case of having to walk through smoke that makes clothes smell for a while.they stink and so does your hair. Anybody can smoke as much as they like as far as I am concerned but I don't want to participate in that.
> 
> ...


If you dont want to participate, then dont. noone is forcing you to walk through smoking areas, except some people will always walk through them on purpose just so they have something to moan about.

Bit of consideration for smokers would go a long way too, we show you plenty of consideration but it's not enough is it, you wont be happy untill it's completely banned because god forbid anyone gets any pleasure out of something you dont enjoy yourself.


----------



## Guest (Nov 27, 2013)

porps said:


> so what? that gives you a right to persecute a smoker does it? because they are damaging their own health? Cool, i guess we should persecute self harmers and suicidal people too, right?
> 
> If you dont want to participate, then dont. noone is forcing you to walk through smoking areas, except that people like you will always walk through them on purpose just so you have something to moan about.
> 
> Bit of consideration for smokers would go a long way too, we show you plenty of consideration but it's not enough is it, you wont be happy untill it's completely banned because god forbid anyone gets any pleasure out of something you dont enjoy yourself.


You can't really compair something that is a choice to something that is an actual illness. Smoking is an addiction a person can choose to get help for but most can't be arsed because they have human rights. Self harm and Suicide is something a person who suffers from either or both lives in fear of they can't control it.

If smokers showed respect they wouldn't sit near door ways of hospitals and carry on smoking.


----------



## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

porps said:


> so what? that gives you a right to persecute a smoker does it? because they are damaging their own health? Cool, i guess we should persecute self harmers and suicidal people too, right?
> 
> If you dont want to participate, then dont.* noone is forcing you to walk through smoking areas*, except some people will always walk through them on purpose just so they have something to moan about.
> 
> Bit of consideration for smokers would go a long way too, we show you plenty of consideration but it's not enough is it, you wont be happy untill it's completely banned because god forbid anyone gets any pleasure out of something you dont enjoy yourself.


We are talking about smoking outside hospital entrances though, so you are kinda forced to walk through others smoke then.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

porps said:


> so what? that gives you a right to persecute a smoker does it? because they are damaging their own health? Cool, i guess we should persecute self harmers and suicidal people too, right?
> 
> If you dont want to participate, then dont. noone is forcing you to walk through smoking areas, except some people will always walk through them on purpose just so they have something to moan about.
> 
> Bit of consideration for smokers would go a long way too, we show you plenty of consideration but it's not enough is it, you wont be happy untill it's completely banned because god forbid anyone gets any pleasure out of something you dont enjoy yourself.


If someone is smoking in an entrance way to a hospital how does anybody have a choice but to walk through it?

If you bothered to read my post, it says I don't object to anybody smoking......but I don't want to.and having to walk through an area where people are smoking forces me to do just that.

I don't need to find anything to moan about.and I don;t persecute people who smoke. and do you really believe people go out of their way to walk through 2nd hand cig smoke so they van have something to moan about? really?

If smokers had shown consideration for non smokers then we wouldn;t have needed legislation about this, would we.

what consideration would you like to see for smokers?..they can light up anywhere they like and not give a rats backside if it offends somebody?


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Prowl said:


> You can't really compair something that is a choice to something that is an actual illness. Smoking is an addiction a person can choose to get help for but most can't be arsed because they have human rights. Self harm and Suicide is something a person who suffers from either or both lives in fear of they can't control it.
> 
> If smokers showed respect they wouldn't sit near door ways of hospitals and carry on smoking.


i can and did compare. Cutting yourself is a choice. Attempting suicide is a choice. Smoking is a choice. Depression is an illness. addiction is an illness.

The 2 things are very similar and if (*as you said*) doing something thats bad for your health means it's ok for others to persecute you then why the hell arent we berating depressed people aswell? Or does your "logic" (for want of a better word) crumble as soon as you apply it to anything else?


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I really dont think smokers realize that the smoke hangs around they think that as long as they are outside it wont affect anyone,I do think a smoking area is needed as having smoked I can say if you have been given stressful news or are a relative being given the same the first thing you dive for is a ciggie.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Animallover26 said:


> We are talking about smoking outside hospital entrances though, so you are kinda forced to walk through others smoke then.





lilythepink said:


> If someone is smoking in an entrance way to a hospital how does anybody have a choice but to walk through it?
> 
> If you bothered to read my post, it says I don't object to anybody smoking......but I don't want to.and having to walk through an area where people are smoking forces me to do just that.
> 
> ...


I already said that smoking should be done in designated areas. The thread asks about "smoking outside hospitals", it doesnt say "smoking in hospital entrances", it says *smoking outside hospitals* and thats the point i am arguing. I'm smoking a cig now, and technically im outside a hospital (im not inside a hospital). If the question is about smoking in hospital entrances then thats obviously a different argument (i dont think anyone hsould be blocking the entrances of a hopistal, smoking or not), but you'll have to let me know if you are changing the question.

What consideration would i like to see for smokers? the same consideration thats given to everyone else, thats all. That they shouldnt be treated like second class citizens simply because of their addiction.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I totally agree that smokers shouldnt be treated as 2nd class citizens.and apologies, I read the title wrong.or maybe someone said about smoking in entrances....that was my point.

I agree too that there should be a designated smoking area. don't quite know how it would work but it should be tried.

If there was a designated smoking area then anybody who went there would have to accept there would be smoke.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

i'd be extremely surprised to learn of a hospital which still hasnt designated smoking areas.
The problem might be getting people to use them, but that problem wont be alleiviated by getting rid of them entirely and just blanket banning smoking on hospital grounds.

If people smoke in banned areas even when there are designated areas why would anyone assume that removing the designated areas would make me people stop smoking in banned areas?


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

porps said:


> Bit of consideration for smokers would go a long way too, *we show you plenty of consideration but it's not enough is it*, you wont be happy untill it's completely banned because god forbid anyone gets any pleasure out of something you dont enjoy yourself.


Hmmmm...... What consideration would that be? Not walking about holding your cigs at hip level between drags, where they don't burn other passers by or damage their clothing? Or not standing right outside the doors of the cafe / pub / bistro you want to enter and therefore not having to run the gaunlet of cigerette fumes? Or partaking in a habit that exudes fumes and smoke which affects others in the vicinity and which they have no choice over?

At least if I over-eat, I don't cause any physical harm or inflict obnoxious smells on other people. If I drink lots of alcohol, I might smell of stale booze but people who walk past me won't.

People are less tolerant of smokers because it is not only the participant who participates.

I personally couldn't care less if people smoke, just as long as I don't end up stinking of *** smoke or having to inhale it.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

The actual proposal is to ban smoking on hospital grounds entirely - our hospitals already ban it around the doorways anyway.

There is a piece in the Daily Telegraph regarding patients with mental health issues and the added difficulties it would cause to both them and the nursing staff forcing them not to smoke at all.

Its a slippery slope gleefully rubbing your hands about something you personally object to being banned - it just gets everyone used to the government controlling more of your life and next on the list will be something you do enjoy yourself


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Hmmmm...... What consideration would that be? Not walking about holding your cigs at hip level between drags, where they don't burn other passers by or damage their clothing? Or not standing right outside the doors of the cafe / pub / bistro you want to enter and therefore not having to run the gaunlet of cigerette fumes? Or partaking in a habit that exudes fumes and smoke which affects others in the vicinity and which they have no choice over?
> 
> At least if I over-eat, I don't cause any physical harm or inflict obnoxious smells on other people. If I drink lots of alcohol, I might smell of stale booze but people who walk past me won't.
> 
> ...


considerations like going outside to smoke our cigs so that they dont annoy non smokers (on the other hand, shreiking kids in public places annoy me, but i dont see the mothers showing me the same consideration for my annoyances by taking them outside untill theyve shut up)

(i'm sure thats gonna be a popular comment) 

Also if you over eat you may well inflict obnoxious smells on others, plus you might take 2 seats on public transport, very considerate. And if you really think that heavy drinking doesnt affect anyone else you've never met a heavy drinker.


----------



## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

It's banned around our hospital, at Derriford, has been for some time. You can't even smoke in the car parks.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

porps said:


> i'd be extremely surprised to learn of a hospital which still hasnt designated smoking areas.
> The problem might be getting people to use them, but that problem wont be alleiviated by getting rid of them entirely and just blanket banning smoking on hospital grounds.
> 
> If people smoke in banned areas even when there are designated areas why would anyone assume that removing the designated areas would make me people stop smoking in banned areas?


so there it is.getting people to use a designated smoking area....which would show courtesy for non smokers.

If people in hospitals won't use designated areas and continue to smoke where they feel like, what choice is left but a total ban?


----------



## Cheryl89 (Jun 24, 2013)

But what will I do when I have an op and need to go out in my nightie for a smoke :yikes:


hehehehehehehehe

I have no input...just that I smoke 

hehehehehee xxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Hmmmm...... What consideration would that be? Not walking about holding your cigs at hip level between drags, where they don't burn other passers by or damage their clothing? Or not standing right outside the doors of the cafe / pub / bistro you want to enter and therefore not having to run the gaunlet of cigerette fumes? Or partaking in a habit that exudes fumes and smoke which affects others in the vicinity and which they have no choice over?
> 
> At least if I over-eat, I don't cause any physical harm or inflict obnoxious smells on other people. If I drink lots of alcohol, I might smell of stale booze but people who walk past me won't.
> 
> ...


But the examples you quote do affect others if you are on a plane for example and are seated next to an obese person that has an adverse affect on others comfort. Excessive alcohol causes endless problems from drunk driving, violence, puking in the street etc etc - you are more likely to be killed by a drunk than a smoker (no idea on the odds for a drunken smoker )

Most pubs nowadays have a smoking area tucked away from main entrances anyway. If I couldn't get into a restaurant without having to battle my way through hoards of reeking smokers and mountains of dog ends pretty sure I would be choosing to go somewhere else lol

A final thought - if the excessive controlling of everyone had not be forced and owners of say pubs had the choice of being a smoking or non-smoking venue all the non-acceptables would be tucked away out of view :yesnod:


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> so there it is.getting people to use a designated smoking area....which would show courtesy for non smokers.
> 
> If people in hospitals won't use designated areas and continue to smoke where they feel like, what choice is left but a total ban?


I ask again - why would you for one moment think that a total ban would work if a partial ban does not? 
And who do you think is going to enforce it? Do you think it would be easier to enforce a total ban than it would to enforce the partial ban we currently have?


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

porps said:


> considerations like going outside to smoke our cigs so that they dont annoy non smokers (on the other hand, shreiking kids in public places annoy me, but i dont see the mothers showing me the same consideration for my annoyances by taking them outside untill theyve shut up)
> 
> (i'm sure thats gonna be a popular comment)
> 
> Also if you over eat you may well inflict obnoxious smells on others, plus you might take 2 seats on public transport, very considerate. And if you really think that heavy drinking doesnt affect anyone else you've never met a heavy drinker.


and.what does any of this have to do with smoking in hospital grounds?

You can go on and on and try and right the worlds wrongs....still makes smoking smelly.

so, skinny people don't have wind?lol


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

porps said:


> I ask again - why would you for one moment think that a total ban would work if a partial ban does not?
> And who do you think is going to enforce it? Do you think it would be easier to enforce a total ban than it would to enforce the partial ban we currently have?


I would hate to see a smoke warden dishing out fixed penalty tickets for people smoking where they shouldn't but I suppose it is possible.

not too long ago there was an article on TV saying NHS was going to refuse treatment for some things to smokers and obese people. I would also hate to see people refused treatment cos they got caught smoking where they shouldn't.

If the powers that be wanted to enforce any sort of a ban, I am sure they would find a way to do it.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm an ex smoker so I can see from both points of view.
I think that proper shelters should be provided for people that smoke and then they wouldn't be milling about outside hospital entrances. By proper shelters I mean somewhere with seats and heating and doors and windows not the bus shelter type things they have at the moment.

I must admit though, I do not like to see pregnant women smoking and never did when I was expecting any of mine.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> and.what does any of this have to do with smoking in hospital grounds?
> 
> You can go on and on and try and right the worlds wrongs....still makes smoking smelly.
> 
> so, skinny people don't have wind?lol


It doesnt have much to do with it, it was in direct response to another poster.

Lots of things are smelly without being banned. For example car exhaust fumes. I dont drive. But i am exposed to car exhaust fumes on a daily basis. They stink and they are bad for my health, and i have no choice but to breathe them. So we should ban cars right?

Skinny people may have wind, but they are unlikely to sweat as much as an obese person.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

porps said:


> It doesnt have much to do with it, it was in direct response to another poster.
> 
> Lots of things are smelly without being banned. For example car exhaust fumes. I dont drive. But i am exposed to car exhaust fumes on a daily basis. They stink and they are bad for my health, and i have no choice but to breathe them. So we should ban cars right?
> 
> Skinny people may have wind, but they are unlikely to sweat as much as an obese person.


no.everybody sweats.thin fat or just plain ugly.

car exhausts......it has much room for improvement but it still doesn't address the fact that smoking is smelly and annoys non smokers. Not asking for a total ban....just smoke where non smokers don't have to walk through it.

Even then, there will still be people who would go for an all out ban and that has to be on the cards for UK too.


----------



## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

When I have to attend hospital (regular basis at the moment but not for me fortunately) I am usually to busy seething that I have yet again had to pay to bump the car up on a patch of mud half a bloody mile away from the entrance, to notice the smokers. I will say though seeing as it has been brought into the discussion I would rather have to get past a smoker by the entrance than a drunk!


----------



## gerbilmummy (Jul 25, 2013)

Lavenderb said:


> I think that proper shelters should be provided for people that smoke and then they wouldn't be milling about outside hospital entrances. By proper shelters I mean somewhere with seats and heating and doors and windows not the bus shelter type things they have at the moment.
> 
> I must admit though, I do not like to see pregnant women smoking and never did when I was expecting any of mine.


I agree with this.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> I would hate to see a smoke warden dishing out fixed penalty tickets for people smoking where they shouldn't but I suppose it is possible.
> 
> not too long ago there was an article on TV saying NHS was going to refuse treatment for some things to smokers and obese people. I would also hate to see people refused treatment cos they got caught smoking where they shouldn't.
> 
> If the powers that be wanted to enforce any sort of a ban, I am sure they would find a way to do it.


i dont think its possible...

lets say for the sake of argument i was smoking on hospital grounds, and a "smoke warden" came up to me and tried to make me pay a fine. Would i laugh in his face and walk away, or dutifully give him my details so he can fine me?
They *cant* enforce it, but it would cost them money to try. personally i dont think the nhs should be spending what little money they do have on smoke wardens...



lilythepink said:


> car exhausts......it has much room for improvement but it still doesn't address the fact that smoking is smelly and annoys non smokers.


indeed, and it doesnt address the fact that kids are noisy and annoy some non parents. Because these things dont need addressing. It's on the annoyed party to make concessions and deal with it, since the world doesnt revolve around them.


----------



## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

when you say outside hospitals do you mean the hospital grounds, hospital doors or on the pavement?
I smoke
doors, I would say yes
hospital grounds, I think they should have a patient shelter away from the doors (patients only not visitors)
pavents outside, no


----------



## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Saying a smoker chooses to smoke is true but its not so easy to stop once its gotten hold of you 
*Scientists have found, for instance, that nicotine is as addictive as heroin, cocaine or amphetamines, and for most people more addictive than alcohol*
taken from this report 
NICOTINE: HARDER TO KICK...THAN HEROIN - New York Times

Banning it is a fair idea , but banning without recourse is not fair ... someone effectively trapped in a hospital because they need treatment should be given somewhere so they can continue to feed that addiction , or offered help to stop it altogether

Im a smoker (trying and failing to quit as im having to go cold turkey each time I try) but totally agree that visitors to a hospital do not need to smoke on the grounds


----------



## Guest (Nov 27, 2013)

porps said:


> i can and did compare. Cutting yourself is a choice. Attempting suicide is a choice. Smoking is a choice. Depression is an illness. addiction is an illness.
> 
> The 2 things are very similar and if (*as you said*) doing something thats bad for your health means it's ok for others to persecute you then why the hell arent we berating depressed people aswell? Or does your "logic" (for want of a better word) crumble as soon as you apply it to anything else?


Its sad that you think like that. How many self harmers do you see harming themselves in front of hospitals and how often do you see someone trying to take their own life outside hospital.

No you really can't compair the 3.

1 of the three is accepted as part of every day life because most people do it. 1 of them effects those around them including themselves in health wise.


----------



## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Prowl said:


> Its really disrespectfull and selfish to smoke near the entrance.
> 
> Maybe they should ban the creation of cigeretts why do they have to be made anyway?


This is like saying anything that can affect somebody else's health should be banned. Alcohol - many car accidents caused by drunk drivers. Vehicles - especially diesel one's cause respiratory diseases. Perfume - some people have bad reactions (a friend starts wheezing even when near someone with perfume on).



Prowl said:


> The real question why do they need go out and endanger their life for the sake of a quick smoke?


Because its an addiction.

I think smoking areas in hospital grounds are fair as long as they are away from buildings.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Prowl said:


> Its sad that you think like that.


i dont think like that. I'm using your logic not mine.



porps said:


> For some reason it's now seen as ok to persecute smokers at every turn and i personally dont like this attitude shift :thumbdown:


This is the part you bolded before replying with :



Prowl said:


> Because smoking is bad for your health??


Therefore logically, i conclude that in your opinion its ok to persecute people if they are doing something that is bad for their health.

With that said, i agree - it's sad that you think like that.


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

My mum was a life-long loather of smoking. She had respiratory issues which it affected and couldn't stand the smell, either. As she lay dying of cancer, her view from the oncology ward window was of all the smokers sucking and hacking away at their ciggies, many of them being her fellow ward mates. Unfortunately she was too ill to appreciate the irony but I did.

There was a shelter for the smokers but it was obviously too far away for them to drag their oxygen deprived bodies too.

I'm a fatty but as I've yet to stand outside a room full of dying diabetics eating cream cakes and smearing them over passersby, I don't see it as comparable.

Do what you want to yourself but if somebody suggests you're maybe not being as considerate as you could be, if your first reaction is seething rage, you should maybe take a step back to assess why.


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Personally I would like to see a smoking ban in all public places.

However I can also see that if someone is a smoker (which is an addiction) and has to spend many days in hospital that fighting their addiction may well add to the stress of their hospital stay. But the smoking area should be away from the doors and public view and should be strictly enforced, anyone smoking in the wrong area should be moved on and/or face an on the spot fine. I also think the smokers should pay a small fee to enter the smoking zone to fund the maintenance, cleaning and staff member employed to look after it and enforce it's use.


----------



## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Fleur said:


> Personally I would like to see a smoking ban in all public places.
> 
> However I can also see that if someone is a smoker (which is an addiction) and has to spend many days in hospital that fighting their addiction may well add to the stress of their hospital stay. But the smoking area should be away from the doors and public view and should be strictly enforced, anyone smoking in the wrong area should be moved on and/or face an on the spot fine. I also think the smokers should pay a small fee to enter the smoking zone to fund the maintenance, cleaning and staff member employed to look after it and enforce it's use.


I agree with this.


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

ours already has and few a little now. They will tell people to move fromt he entrance, they have no smoking sheds either now. staff stand on the main road smoking. 

I like it, I don't want to walk into a wall of smoke before I can get it to the hospital, it stinks!


----------



## Roger Downes (Sep 17, 2013)

With all this talk of banning smoking in Hospital grounds, interesting to see how it was acceptable to smoke even in Hospitals during WW1 For those that like a bit of history.
'Arf a Mo' Kaiser - Smokes for Tommy - Cigarettes & soldiers, WW1 - Picturing the Great WarThe First World War Blog from Mary Evans Picture Library


----------



## Roger Downes (Sep 17, 2013)

And as someone who gave up smoking 7 months ago........This talk has really got me wanting a ***:drool:


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Fleur said:


> Personally I would like to see a smoking ban in all public places.
> 
> However I can also see that if someone is a smoker (which is an addiction) and has to spend many days in hospital that fighting their addiction may well add to the stress of their hospital stay. But the smoking area should be away from the doors and public view and should be strictly enforced, anyone smoking in the wrong area should be moved on and/or face an on the spot fine. I also think the smokers should pay a small fee to enter the smoking zone to fund the maintenance, cleaning and staff member employed to look after it and enforce it's use.


i agree with this too (except the first bit).. though if you charge people to go into the smoking area i think many would choose to just smoke outside despite the ban, which kinda of defeats the purpose of it.

I live just round the corner from the hopistal and i never see people smoking at the entrance when i go to use the cash machine, which i do reguarly.. the reason? they are all in the smoking areas which are a little way away from the entrance.


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Certainly ban cigarette smoking outside hospitals. And within a 50 mile radius from the hospital should be about right.


----------



## noogsy (Aug 20, 2009)

hi my mum had her leg amputated,through smoking.
it amazed me the things people do even when they are dieing.
i watched the smokers wheeling out for a ***,
the diabetics wheeling out to the shoppe to get there sweeties for the day:yikes: and sugar full iron bru. their seeping bandages dripping with infection.no one stopped them.they gave me the boak. to be honest if people wont help themselves why should the nhs bother.these people were wasting everyones time and money. drs and nurses were desperately trying to save there limbs and they cared more about addiction.


----------



## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I don't smoke, but I agree it should be banned, but then when I think about it, I am not sure, as visiting hospitals can be stressful for people and smoking can be a stress reliever to some people. So I think they should have a smoking booth like they do in air ports, outside of hospitals. I do hate seeing people smoking out their skin outside of maternity wards especially.


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

God, yes, ban it! I got sick and tired of the cloud of fug through which I had to blindly wend my way every time I went for appointments, even outside A and E, yuk!


----------



## jonb (Nov 15, 2012)

I`m sure Treliske has a smoking ban but the *** butts all over floor by the bus stop tell me something else....
on a different note...why do all smokers drop *** butts?they don`t disapear


----------



## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

jonb said:


> I`m sure Treliske has a smoking ban but the *** butts all over floor by the bus stop tell me something else....
> on a different note...why do all smokers drop *** butts?they don`t disapear


They don't all do it.

I think up here its banned. All hospitals that I've been to have a no smoking policy on any of their grounds. I think there's signs saying you'll get a fine if caught. I don't know how enforceable it is but it seems to work quite well. I very very rarely see people smoking in hospital grounds.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*No they shouldn't ban smoking on hospitals grounds. I've seen more crap come from diesel engines than *** smoke.
Funny how it's the smokers that always get picked on. How about picking on all the junkies? But hey they get free needles, boxes to put them in ect ect.
We are living in a bloody nanny state, and it's getting worse.
I would love to see what this country would do if everyone gave up smoking. Where would the government get all that cash they would loose?
*


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *No they shouldn't ban smoking on hospitals grounds. I've seen more crap come from diesel engines than *** smoke.
> Funny how it's the smokers that always get picked on. How about picking on all the junkies? But hey they get free needles, boxes to put them in ect ect.
> We are living in a bloody nanny state, and it's getting worse.
> I would love to see what this country would do if everyone gave up smoking. Where would the government get all that cash they would loose?
> *


For me someone blowing smoke in my face as I try to walk into a hospital is harmful to me.
Someone injecting themselves with heroine is only harmful to them selves.
Smokers get free ashtrays but most seem to not bother using them
Junkies get free needle bins which seem to be used more as I rarely see needles lying around in the street but I see *** buts everyday.

Smoking is harmful to others - when you are trying to get an asthmatic child into visit their sick Aunty at hospital and just walking in means walking through a cloud of smoke that triggers an asthma attack it's not much fun.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Fleur said:


> For me someone blowing smoke in my face as I try to walk into a hospital is harmful to me.
> Someone injecting themselves with heroine is only harmful to them selves.
> Smokers get free ashtrays but most seem to not bother using them
> Junkies get free needle bins which seem to be used more as I rarely see needles lying around in the street but I see *** buts everyday.
> ...


*lol I have NEVER seen a smoker blowing smoke into someone,s face.
As for junkies only harm themselves. How much crime is comitted by them to feed their habit?
And what about the drunks, why not pick on them, let's face it how much trouble do they cause others?
Nope, smokers are an easy target.*


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol I have NEVER seen a smoker blowing smoke into someone,s face.
> As for junkies only harm themselves. How much crime is comitted by them to feed their habit?
> And what about the drunks, why not pick on them, let's face it how much trouble do they cause others?
> Nope, smokers are an easy target.*


They may not deliberately blow smoke in someones face but you only have to be walking down the street behind someone who smokes to get a face ful of it.
I was being simplistic in my answer to your simplistic post. The immediate physical harm is there when someone walks oast a group of smokers.
Drunks and junkies are harmful to society and steps need to be taken but they are not the topic of conversation. 
Most councils have drinking in public bans in certain areas/times which the police enforce to some extent. Taking drugs in public is already illegal I believe. So why not do the same for smoking?


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol I have NEVER seen a smoker blowing smoke into someone,s face.
> *


*

If you smoke yourself you probably dont notice it!
I def think they should ban smoking from hospital grounds! The NHS shouldnt be complicit in the destruction of the lives they are trying to save.
You arent allowed to drink alcohol on the grounds or take drugs either. You are prevented from self harm or suicide attempts so why should this particular destructive behaviour get a free pass??
TBH if it was up to me Id even ban junk food from the hospital!!LOL

Besides you only have to see a patient with smoking induced lung problems be sent home to die to realiese why hospitals should ban it. Because you will be refused treatment if the only thing that will save you is oxygen and you wont give up smoking.....*


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

I think the government should stop being such bleeding hypocrites and should ban the sale/production of cigarettes/tobacco entirely. But they won't will they as they themselves can still smoke in their little club, most are probably involved with the tobacco companies in one way or another and like the massive amount of tax they get.

Lets go a step further and ban free medical treatment for anyone who smokes - but we can't discriminate as its not pc in this country so also ban free treatment for anything self inflicted - the overweight, drunks, any type of addict, sports injuries, traffic accidents etc etc etc


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Fleur said:


> They may not deliberately blow smoke in someones face but you only have to be walking down the street behind someone who smokes to get a face ful of it.
> I was being simplistic in my answer to your simplistic post. The immediate physical harm is there when someone walks oast a group of smokers.
> Drunks and junkies are harmful to society and steps need to be taken but they are not the topic of conversation.
> Most councils have drinking in public bans in certain areas/times which the police enforce to some extent. Taking drugs in public is already illegal I believe. So why not do the same for smoking?


*Ok let's get this into perspective. By inhaling other peoples smoke you are inhaling polluted air. We agree?
How much polluted air do we ALL have to breath in, in every situation every minute of the day?
Just another point. I wonder how people would react if ALL the doctors and nurses that smoke were sacked. Let's face it, who wants a *** smelling doctor or nurse? ( said tongue in cheek).*


----------



## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

While smoking is LEGAL i dont see how it can be banned BUT i have lost count of the number of ADULT SMOKERS (im ignoring teenagers as in the main they are selfish anyway - meant in the nicest way for most of them) i have seen - 

Sitting IN covered bus stops
Sitting OUTSIDE the only door of a cafe (this has partial blame to the owners setting up tables outside the door encouraging smoking in this area)
Standing outside the pub/restaurant doors

The MAIN one tho is Sat/Stood smoking right outside hospitals - the 2 main ones near me have big red NO SMOKING IN THE RED ZONE posters & painted floors outside the A&E & wards & STILL they smoke !!! now THAT is just plain selfish 

My baby daughter once had cigarette ash IN HER PRAM where a smoker had flicked the ash with no thought to where they were standing

My other daughter had a cig BURN on her face (thankfully just a glance so no lasting mark) from a cig held low (i have issues with brollys too before somebody mentions them) 

ONE older smoker once leaned into my daughters pram (while she may have held the cig out the way she was breathing onto my child) to have a look (not caused by the smoke but she has had only one winter in 9 where she hasnt had serious croup) 

While i agree some NON smokers need to take a step back & remember that it is a LEGAL drug (only because of the tax revenue otherwise the Gov would likely ban it) & it is an addiction - SOME smokers also need to be aware of the health risks the smell & the medical needs of OTHER people & be a bit more considerate as to where they are smoking


----------



## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Smokers... shoot em!


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok let's get this into perspective. By inhaling other peoples smoke you are inhaling polluted air. We agree?
> How much polluted air do we ALL have to breath in, in every situation every minute of the day?
> Just another point. I wonder how people would react if ALL the doctors and nurses that smoke were sacked. Let's face it, who wants a *** smelling doctor or nurse? ( said tongue in cheek).*


Exactly - its all the pious hypocrosy that gets my goat they should be paragons of virtue in every respect. The other month I had to take my mother to the dementia clinic and the specialist we saw was morbidly obese she was literally wider than her height, and was weezing away just talking, how is that a good example from the NHS? Mind you seeing dementia patients day in day out she perhaps realises this live a model life and live forever really is not all its cracked up to be


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

The older I get the more I dislike the smell of ****...when I go into town there are loads of people puffing away and well the smell is gross. There is absolutely nothing positive about smoking..it is harmful to both user and others..it is also a fire hazard. Plus it stinks and makes smokers teeth yellow and have ***** breath..eww...fancy having to kiss a smoker..would rather put a wasp up my bottom! :cryin:

I do think it should be banned on hospital grounds...and that includes staff as well. Infact I think smoking at work should be banned full stoo too..after all people are being paid to work not smoke.

I have seen pregnant women sat in wheelchairs on a drip outside the maternity ward puffing away...that is so wrong in so many way! :nono:


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> Ok let's get this into perspective. By inhaling other peoples smoke you are inhaling polluted air. We agree?


ok, so your arguement is that we can ban smoking in areas with good air quality, like small villages coz other places we are breathing in too much rubbish anyway to notice??
Why do you have a problem banning smoking from a hospital?? You could be passing someone suffering from an asthma attack which might prove fatal, and could be exacerbated by having to breath in smoke!
Smokers will always find somewhere to go (in my hospital its round the back by the bins!) but they shouldnt be openly flaunting their disregard for their own health and other peoples. To me its no different then the incontinent, unconcious drunks I have to step over in the A&E dept.


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok let's get this into perspective. By inhaling other peoples smoke you are inhaling polluted air. We agree?
> How much polluted air do we ALL have to breath in, in every situation every minute of the day?
> Just another point. I wonder how people would react if ALL the doctors and nurses that smoke were sacked. Let's face it, who wants a *** smelling doctor or nurse? ( said tongue in cheek).*


I actually think there should be allocated smoking areas away from the hospital entrances and that the use if these should be strictly enforced. 
I also think that smoking should be banned from all other public areas or the same system should be used.
Yes there is polution everywhere. But cars etc are being developed tovreduce this. I believe these fumes (unless you are working in a specific environment) are much less concentrated when I walk down the road than the plume if smoke that gets blown over me when I walk into a cafe or hospital. 
And I never said drs and nurses should be stopped from smoking. After all it is legal and the smell wouldn't please me but it wouldn't make me refuse treatment or question their ability.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

catz4m8z said:


> ok, so your arguement is that we can ban smoking in areas with good air quality, like small villages coz other places we are breathing in too much rubbish anyway to notice??
> Why do you have a problem banning smoking from a hospital?? You could be passing someone suffering from an asthma attack which might prove fatal, and could be exacerbated by having to breath in smoke!
> Smokers will always find somewhere to go (in my hospital its round the back by the bins!) but they shouldnt be openly flaunting their disregard for their own health and other peoples. To me its no different then the incontinent, unconcious drunks I have to step over in the A&E dept.


*But the FACT is, we do not have good quality air. I have a problem with banning most things.
I wish they still had smoking rooms in hospitals, but only smokers would be allowed in them.
When i gave up for 12 years, i never once treated smokers any different. *


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

I don't smoke and I hate the smell of cigarettes and tobacco (but strangely not cigars because they remind me of Christmas  ) and it's been a standing joke throughout our marriage that when my OH proposed, my reply was, "Yes on one condition - that you clean your own ashtrays!" That's long since been extended to only smoking outside, but that's another story!

I don't think people should congregate outside entrances to anywhere and smoke; they should use designated smoking areas. However. let's get things into perspective here. If you have to walk past someone who is smoking, you are past in a few seconds. Do what I do - don't breathe in. And - reality check - in that few seconds your clothes and hair won't pick up enough of the smoke to smell

This world would be a much better place if only people thought a bit more about others than themselves - and that goes for the few smokers who ignore the rules and get the rest a bad name, and the holier-than-thou brigade who have never smoked and think that gives them the right to dictate to those who do.


----------



## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

gorgeous said:


> I do think it should be banned on hospital grounds...and that includes staff as well. *Infact I think smoking at work should be banned full stop too..after all people are being paid to work not smoke.*


this i totally agree with. at my work around 70% of the staff smoke. in the evenings they get to go for a quick *** atleast 3 times. thats 15 minutes off floor for a sneaky break. while the people who dont smoke get no break and are sometimes left on the floor alone while they sneak off for a cheeky ***. if i told them i was sneaking off floor for a sneaky book break i would get a disaplinary faster than usain bolt can run the 100m.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Definitely ban it but also help people to give up smoking while they're there, offer things to help break the addiction. 

I have smoked, and still very occasionally have a cigar, but I'd never smoke in public. My aunt smokes, but she never smokes in front of children, or at work. It's definitely possible to smoke and be considerate, it's just the vast majority don't think about others breathing in their second hand smoke. I hate it, nothing worse than walking down a street and getting a faceful of *** smoke!!


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> I don't smoke and I hate the smell of cigarettes and tobacco (but strangely not cigars because they remind me of Christmas  ) and it's been a standing joke throughout our marriage that when my OH proposed, my reply was, "Yes on one condition - that you clean your own ashtrays!" That's long since been extended to only smoking outside, but that's another story!
> 
> I don't think people should congregate outside entrances to anywhere and smoke; they should use designated smoking areas. However. let's get things into perspective here. If you have to walk past someone who is smoking, you are past in a few seconds. Do what I do - don't breathe in. And - reality check - in that few seconds your clothes and hair won't pick up enough of the smoke to smell
> 
> This world would be a much better place if only people thought a bit more about others than themselves - and that goes for the few smokers who ignore the rules and get the rest a bad name, and the holier-than-thou brigade who have never smoked and think that gives them the right to dictate to those who do.


What a sensible and tolerant view 

I work with a number of smokers and they don't reek - one of them has knitted some baby things for my pending grandson and as son's girlfriend is very anti smoking (she goes into a quivering hissy fit if he smokes outside and there is washing hanging on the line) I was worried about the merest whiff of ciggy smell. So I asked a very anti-smoking girl at work to sniff the baby knitting just in case - guess what, smelt of nothing other than washing powder



CRL said:


> this i totally agree with. at my work around 70% of the staff smoke. in the evenings they get to go for a quick *** atleast 3 times. thats 15 minutes off floor for a sneaky break. while the people who dont smoke get no break and are sometimes left on the floor alone while they sneak off for a cheeky ***. if i told them i was sneaking off floor for a sneaky book break i would get a disaplinary faster than usain bolt can run the 100m.


Thats the fault of your company policy then not the majority of your staff. At our office staff are allowed a couple of ciggy breaks a day, on the proviso they start earlier to cover the time so as not to be unfair on non-smokers.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *But the FACT is, we do not have good quality air. I have a problem with banning most things.
> I wish they still had smoking rooms in hospitals, but only smokers would be allowed in them.
> When i gave up for 12 years, i never once treated smokers any different. *


TBH I think the hypocrisy would be too great to have smoking rooms back again and a total ban should be enforced. The NHS has a duty of care towards patients and I dont see how that duty can be fulfilled if we are allowing people to harm their health.
Imagine working on a respiratory ward giving people nebulisers, drugs, sending them for CT scans/x rays for a smoking induced illness then happily waving them off to the smoking area! Then they come back and you restart the task of trying to stave off the smoking damage....before they wander out to fill their lungs up with smoke again.

Of course you cant ban smoking everywhere and I not saying you should (*cough*you should*cough*) but in hospitals?? yes!


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> I don't smoke and I hate the smell of cigarettes and tobacco (but strangely not cigars because they remind me of Christmas  ) and it's been a standing joke throughout our marriage that when my OH proposed, my reply was, "Yes on one condition - that you clean your own ashtrays!" That's long since been extended to only smoking outside, but that's another story!
> 
> I don't think people should congregate outside entrances to anywhere and smoke; they should use designated smoking areas. However. let's get things into perspective here. If you have to walk past someone who is smoking, you are past in a few seconds. Do what I do - don't breathe in. And - reality check - in that few seconds your clothes and hair won't pick up enough of the smoke to smell
> 
> This world would be a much better place if only people thought a bit more about others than themselves - and that goes for the few smokers who ignore the rules and get the rest a bad name, and the holier-than-thou brigade who have never smoked and think that gives them the right to dictate to those who do.


I married a smoker as well. ( he gave up through his own choice some years ago) but we had the same rules clean his own ashtrays and smoke in the garden/ shed.
I grew up with smoking being allowed everywhere, with smoking rooms in the work place etc.
I agree with everything you've posted apart from that you can't trust a lot of smokers to be considerate and therefore rules should be put in place and enforced.
Plus I'm not sure how a baby or small child is supposed to hold their breath? 
For me it's not about the smell but the health issues of secondary smoke.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

CRL said:


> this i totally agree with. at my work around 70% of the staff smoke. in the evenings they get to go for a quick *** atleast 3 times. thats 15 minutes off floor for a sneaky break. while the people who dont smoke get no break and are sometimes left on the floor alone while they sneak off for a cheeky ***. if i told them i was sneaking off floor for a sneaky book break i would get a disaplinary faster than usain bolt can run the 100m.


*If it bothers you them having their " *** time", why don't you pretend you need the loo?
Imagine having an itch you couldn't scratch for hours.*


----------



## gerbilmummy (Jul 25, 2013)

I know someone who uses a wheelchair and when out, I try and keep an eye out for people who are smoking and try not to walk behind them, because the number of smokers who will walk along with cigarette in hand down by their hip is amazing - wheelchair users then get a face full of cigarette smoke and have no way of getting away from it until they can get past the smokers. 
Also the number of times we have gone past a smoker and they have a puff then bring the cigarette down level with the w/chair users face! 
This is both in the streets and in hospital grounds. 
In fact had a hospital appointment the other day, the ramp up to the hospital doors is all under cover and in this area were two smokers, just as we were passing one flicked ash and it landed on the wheelchair and the other blew out smoke just as we were passing! That in my mind is NOT considerate and they shouldn't have been smoking there anyway (big sign up asking people not to smoke in the porch).

I don't mind people smoking in general, if they want to harm their own health then fine, but as far as hospitals go there should be a designated smoking area and anyone found smoking were they shouldn't should be fined on the spot.


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

My local hospital banned smoking in the gounds a couple of years ago, but used to have a smoking room inside the hospital quite a few years ago,and when one of my children was knocked down by a car, the Dr actually gave me a cigarette to calm me down, asked me if I smoked and when I said yes but none with me he gave me one of his, 
This by the way was 33 years ago, so times have certainly changes
I am still an on-off smoker, my Dr also told me its harder to quit smoking than quit cocaine


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Definitely ban it but also help people to give up smoking while they're there, offer things to help break the addiction.
> 
> I have smoked, and still very occasionally have a cigar, but I'd never smoke in public. My aunt smokes, but she never smokes in front of children, or at work. It's definitely possible to smoke and be considerate, it's just the vast majority don't think about others breathing in their second hand smoke. I hate it, nothing worse than walking down a street and getting a faceful of *** smoke!!


It would be very simple to say that only electronic cigarettes can be used - no smell, no smoke, no ash, no butts. A lot of smokers were beginning to turn to these so the EU have their beady eye on them, lost tax revenue, losses to the pharmaceutical industry who make nicotine replacement products. Its nothing to do with health just money


----------



## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *If it bothers you them having their " *** time", why don't you pretend you need the loo?
> Imagine having an itch you couldn't scratch for hours.*


i do. its knowing i have a good book in my bag and i have to wait till i get home to read it as i wont have my break


----------



## gerbilmummy (Jul 25, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> It would be very simple to say that only electronic cigarettes can be used - no smell, no smoke, no ash, no butts.
> 
> That would be a very good idea.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> It would be very simple to say that only electronic cigarettes can be used - no smell, no smoke, no ash, no butts. A lot of smokers were beginning to turn to these so the EU have their beady eye on them, lost tax revenue, losses to the pharmaceutical industry who make nicotine replacement products. Its nothing to do with health just money


But e-cigs aren't quitting completely, it's still an addiction, you're just not having a ***. It shouldn't be about replacing one addiction with another, it should be about breaking an addiction.

I can't see how making one change to how hospitals operate will affect smokers greatly. It won't stop people from smoking overall, it will just stop people from smoking on/at hospitals, which I completely agree with. If people want to smoke, do it in their own homes or out of the way of others, that's not too difficult.


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Our trust has done this....it hasn't worked, still have patients going out with their drip stands


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But e-cigs aren't quitting completely, it's still an addiction, you're just not having a ***. It shouldn't be about replacing one addiction with another, it should be about breaking an addiction.
> 
> I can't see how making one change to how hospitals operate will affect smokers greatly. It won't stop people from smoking overall, it will just stop people from smoking on/at hospitals, which I completely agree with. If people want to smoke, do it in their own homes or out of the way of others, that's not too difficult.


But its human nature to do things that are not good for you whether thats smoking, drinking, eating too much/the wrong things, extreme sports. Do you want your life run by government telling you how to live your life?

In this thread poster who is I believe a nurse said its as objectionable as incontinent unconscious drunks - I would have thought that is more unpleasant for the staff to deal with so why are there no steps to ban anyone intoxicated from hospital premises? Particularly as smoking is legal after all whereas being drunk and disorderely can be prosecuted!

The constant targetting of smokers is unbalanced in comparison to more pressing, anti social nasty issues


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But e-cigs aren't quitting completely, it's still an addiction, you're just not having a ***. It shouldn't be about replacing one addiction with another, it should be about breaking an addiction.
> 
> I can't see how making one change to how hospitals operate will affect smokers greatly. It won't stop people from smoking overall, it will just stop people from smoking on/at hospitals, which I completely agree with. If people want to smoke, do it in their own homes or out of the way of others, that's not too difficult.


*So if someone chooses to have an addiction they enjoy, ie. an E-Cig, why would it bother anyone else?
Some people just love being in control of other peoples lives.*


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> But its human nature to do things that are not good for you whether thats smoking, drinking, eating too much/the wrong things, extreme sports. Do you want your life run by government telling you how to live your life?
> 
> In this thread poster who is I believe a nurse said its as objectionable as incontinent unconscious drunks - I would have thought that is more unpleasant for the staff to deal with so why are there no steps to ban anyone intoxicated from hospital premises? Particularly as smoking is legal after all whereas being drunk and disorderely can be prosecuted!
> 
> The constant targetting of smokers is unbalanced in comparison to more pressing, anti social nasty issues


And someone who drinks to excess like that, wouldn't be allowed to then go sit outside a hospital and drink even more. And yes, I agree it's just as objectionable, but that's not the argument here, the argument is that smoking, if you choose to do it, shouldn't impact on others, and as it's directly impacting your health, you shouldn't be allowed to smoke at a hospital. Other addictions aren't allowed to carry on regardless, there is always a *plan* in place to try and wean people off their addiction, not just let them carry on regardless, and it certainly wouldn't be acceptable to have people with a variety of addictions just lining up outside the doors inflicting *whatever* on other patients and staff.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *So if someone chooses to have an addiction they enjoy, ie. an E-Cig, why would it bother anyone else?
> Some people just love being in control of other peoples lives.*


It's not about controlling other peoples' lives, it's about having control of your own life, choosing not to inhale someone else's smoke should be a basic right if you are going to a place where sick people are treated. And as far as treatment for those whose health is directly affected by smoking, why on earth would you allow them to continue, it's like leaving a bottle of vodka next to the bed of an alcoholic for them to help themselves!!


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *So if someone chooses to have an addiction they enjoy, ie. an E-Cig, why would it bother anyone else?
> Some people just love being in control of other peoples lives.*


From my (work & personal) perspective though Janice I'm watching someone slowly destroy their own body....whether its drugs, alcohol, too much food, too little food or smoking. Its not always a case of being in control of other people's lives, its knowing what they are doing to themselves and its heartbreaking  but it is still their choice. I don't think anyone these days is so ill informed as to not know what damage smoking can and frequently does do, same with alcohol and drugs etc.

So I am sadly of the opinion that if that's what they choose to do let them do it, but spare a thought for those of us who have to deal with the after effects. If anyone else here has ever had to tell a person...a real live person and their family that their habit they have enjoyed (usually) for most of their lives is now killing them you'll know what I mean. Its torture to watch someone disappear before your eyes and be powerless and the only comfort you can offer and take yourself, is that they enjoyed themselves. Whether it be by eating the wrong things (this will probably be mine), smoking, drinking etc.

Nobody needs lecturing, but the education of what these things do to us has to keep happening, maybe more people would be willing to listen if it wasn't thrust upon them in a condescending manner?


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> And someone who drinks to excess like that, wouldn't be allowed to then go sit outside a hospital and drink even more. And yes, I agree it's just as objectionable, but that's not the argument here, the argument is that smoking, if you choose to do it, shouldn't impact on others, and as it's directly impacting your health, you shouldn't be allowed to smoke at a hospital. Other addictions aren't allowed to carry on regardless, there is always a *plan* in place to try and wean people off their addiction, not just let them carry on regardless, and it certainly wouldn't be acceptable to have people with a variety of addictions just lining up outside the doors inflicting *whatever* on other patients and staff.


But you objected to E cigs and they don't impact on others


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> But you objected to E cigs and they don't impact on others


I didn't *object* to e-cigs, and actually I don't like the smell of them at all, I simply stated that doling them out to people to stop them smoking, isn't breaking the habit, it's replacing one addiction with another. It might be an improvement, but the person is still addicted to *something*.


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

When the no smoking ban came in it was no smoking in buildings pubs ect then it progressed to company vehicals so all the smokers accepted that and smoked in the open air,now it seems to me that thats not good enough for alot of people,I see now ciggies are behind metal grills in Supermarkets and now they are on about putting them in plain packets.I do wonder if smoking was banned anywhere but your own home what would be next on the list.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Kitty_pig said:


> From my (work & personal) perspective though Janice I'm watching someone slowly destroy their own body....whether its drugs, alcohol, too much food, too little food or smoking. Its not always a case of being in control of other people's lives, its knowing what they are doing to themselves and its heartbreaking  but it is still their choice. I don't think anyone these days is so ill informed as to not know what damage smoking can and frequently does do, same with alcohol and drugs etc.
> 
> So I am sadly of the opinion that if that's what they choose to do let them do it, but spare a thought for those of us who have to deal with the after effects. If anyone else here has ever had to tell a person...a real live person and their family that their habit they have enjoyed (usually) for most of their lives is now killing them you'll know what I mean. Its torture to watch someone disappear before your eyes and be powerless and the only comfort you can offer and take yourself, is that they enjoyed themselves. Whether it be by eating the wrong things (this will probably be mine), smoking, drinking etc.
> 
> Nobody needs lecturing, but the education of what these things do to us has to keep happening, maybe more people would be willing to listen if it wasn't thrust upon them in a condescending manner?


*I take it you are in nursing? If so, and i say this with respect. No matter what life style someone chooses there is only one sure outcome, we will all die.
I've lost 3 family members to cancer, all different types at the moment. Only 1 was a smoker. My brother has cancer, which is yet another type, and yet he is so health conscious it's unreal.
As for education about the risks of smoking, i think the governments over the years have failed.*


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *I take it you are in nursing? If so, and i say this with respect. No matter what life style someone chooses there is only one sure outcome, we will all die.
> I've lost 3 family members to cancer, all different types at the moment. Only 1 was a smoker. My brother has cancer, which is yet another type, and yet he is so health conscious it's unreal.
> As for education about the risks of smoking, i think the governments over the years have failed.*


Yup I am, and yes we will all die but watching someone die a hell of a lot earlier from liver cirrhosis than they probably would had they not drunk so much alcohol, or watching yet another teenager die because they decided to take that pill, or watching yet another man leave his family due to a heart attack caused by over eating or lung cancer from smoking is the heart breaking thing. Even more heartbreaking than just any death because it could've been at least put off.

Yes we all die, but why would we want to hasten the process and leave our families? To me its quite selfish (obviously an addiction is an addiction and those with said addiction are never really thinking beyond the addiction) but to just have an attitude of well I'm going to die anyway, what about the people being left behind? Its not just smoking and I do actually agree smokers are the ones who always always get "picked on" and lectured which I have never understood. And you're right the governments have failed miserably, but the individual must take some responsibility.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Kitty_pig said:


> Yup I am, and yes we will all die but watching someone die a hell of a lot earlier from liver cirrhosis than they probably would had they not drunk so much alcohol, or watching yet another teenager die because they decided to take that pill, or watching yet another man leave his family due to a heart attack caused by over eating or lung cancer from smoking is the heart breaking thing. Even more heartbreaking than just any death because it could've been at least put off.
> 
> Yes we all die, but why would we want to hasten the process and leave our families? To me its quite selfish (obviously an addiction is an addiction and those with said addiction are never really thinking beyond the addiction) but to just have an attitude of well I'm going to die anyway, what about the people being left behind? Its not just smoking and I do actually agree smokers are the ones who always always get "picked on" and lectured which I have never understood. And you're right the governments have failed miserably, but the individual must take some responsibility.


*I absolutely respect your post. At least you are not showing bias.*


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Kitty Pig yes it must be very hard dealing with that but its just as hard watching a non-smoking, rarely drinking, clean living parent become an unrecognisable non-functioning shell of a person.

the longer you live the more likely you are to end up mindless unable to wipe your own bum, the thought makes me want to chain smoke and drink myself into oblivion to be honest


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I still think alcohol is worse than smoking, plus no one gets violent and beats someone up or stabs anyone through smoking, I have twin sons who drink far too much,[as did their father] although they tend to drink more at home these days, they have a genetic disease which affects their liver, I have almost begged them to at least try to curb it, as I know where it will probably all end, 
I don't drink at all, so cant stand seeing anyone drunk, or smelling it
One of them was stabbed in his own home by someone he didn't even know[an ex of his then girlfriends] who broke in and stabbed him in the head and leg, after a drinking session, 
I still smoke, but have had several attempts at giving up, I now have an e-cig, and use it to smoke normal ones less, hoping I can stop, but my daughter gave up by reading Allen Carrs easyway to stop smoking] 
The shop here that sells e-cigs is always packed with customers
I never smoke anywhere anyone else doesn't smoke,[in someone elses house etc] or outside


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I honestly dont see why this is even an issue TBH. I mean the police dont stand back and let you rob stuff, shops dont let you shoplift so why should hospitals let you smoke??
You cant drink, do drugs, self harm, cause RTAs within hospital grounds so why should you be allowed to smoke??
Its not something you _need_ to do like eat, drink, breath or go to the loo....its a habit that is offensive to others and harmful to your health! Why is it a problem for you to respect the institution and go elsewhere and smoke?


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

catz4m8z said:


> I honestly dont see why this is even an issue TBH. I mean the police dont stand back and let you rob stuff, shops dont let you shoplift so why should hospitals let you smoke??
> You cant drink, do drugs, self harm, cause RTAs within hospital grounds so why should you be allowed to smoke??
> Its not something you _need_ to do like eat, drink, breath or go to the loo....its a habit that is offensive to others and harmful to your health! Why is it a problem for you to respect the institution and go elsewhere and smoke?


*But smokers do NEED to smoke. It's an addiction. Unlike RTAs ect.
How many doctors and nurses smoke where you work?*


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Kitty Pig yes it must be very hard dealing with that but its just as hard watching a non-smoking, rarely drinking, clean living parent become an unrecognisable non-functioning shell of a person.
> 
> the longer you live the more likely you are to end up mindless unable to wipe your own bum, the thought makes me want to chain smoke and drink myself into oblivion to be honest


I completely agree, I think that's harder the majority of the time.



JANICE199 said:


> *I absolutely respect your post. At least you are not showing bias.*


I'd be crap at my job if I was biased :lol:



catz4m8z said:


> I honestly dont see why this is even an issue TBH. I mean the police dont stand back and let you rob stuff, shops dont let you shoplift so why should hospitals let you smoke??
> You cant drink, do drugs, self harm, cause RTAs within hospital grounds so why should you be allowed to smoke??
> Its not something you _need_ to do like eat, drink, breath or go to the loo....its a habit that is offensive to others and harmful to your health! Why is it a problem for you to respect the institution and go elsewhere and smoke?


When its a true addiction it is a need though


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *But smokers do NEED to smoke. It's an addiction. Unlike RTAs ect.
> How many doctors and nurses smoke where you work?*


No, they dont NEED to smoke.....not smoking is unpleasant for them because, yes its an addiction but its not something they need to do to survive. In fact not smoking will not even have any serious consequences for them unlike alcohol or drugs where uncontrolled withdrawal can cause fatal fits....
If you dont want to go outside the grounds to smoke or are too poorly and dont want to accept the help offered then tough luck!rrr:
(and I dont know how many drs or nurses smoke but they can all push off outside hospital grounds too!!).


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> I honestly dont see why this is even an issue TBH. I mean the police dont stand back and let you rob stuff, shops dont let you shoplift so why should hospitals let you smoke??
> You cant drink, do drugs, self harm, cause RTAs within hospital grounds so why should you be allowed to smoke??
> Its not something you _need_ to do like eat, drink, breath or go to the loo....its a habit that is offensive to others and harmful to your health! Why is it a problem for you to respect the institution and go elsewhere and smoke?


smoking is legal


----------



## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Smoking may be legal but that isn't the point. 

Maybe it's time we moved on, leave this thread alone, all everyone is doing is going round and round in circles, the smokers and non-smokers are not going to agree and arguing isn't going to help matters.


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

suewhite said:


> When the no smoking ban came in it was no smoking in buildings pubs ect then it progressed to company vehicals so all the smokers accepted that and smoked in the open air,now it seems to me that thats not good enough for alot of people,I see now ciggies are behind metal grills in Supermarkets and now they are on about putting them in plain packets.I do wonder if smoking was banned anywhere but your own home what would be next on the list.


There is talk of doing just that !
patients in my area are asked to refrain from smoking for at least an hour before a visit from a health professional / carer, which is probably fair enough, but very hard to enforce. 
As for the addiction aspect I stopped smoking 3 years ago ( Yayyyy me !!) but am still addicted to nicotine mini tabs . So yes, one addiction swapped for another. 
I've also had to quit my chocolate addiction due to being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, but that's another story.


----------



## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I would ban..
children from supermarkets
cyclists on pavements
babies on aeroplanes
flexileads
MacDonalds
onesies
TOWIE
chocolate adverts featuring simpering women who have perfect figure, skin and teeth
I could go on.......
and on
and on......


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I do still occasionally smoke, as I said in my first post, but I wouldn't dream of standing outside a hospital and smoking, or inflicting my smoke on non-smokers. It makes me laugh that somehow, smokers should be treated differently, that it's socially acceptable to inflict your addiction on someone else when it patently isn't acceptable.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think directly outside the entrance yes it should be banned but in designated areas - no it should not.

Personally I really dont see what all the hype is about - I think many non smokers are just very padantic and nit pick - whatever a smoker does they are in the wrong - of course people can get cancer from passive smoking but I think we need to put things into perspective ! - a few seconds walking past someone its probably safe to say the chances are very low - 

For me there are far more dangerous addictions that dont seem to get the same abuse as smoking - addictions that IMO are far more threatening to the general public in all sorts of ways - alchohol being the main one 

- IMO there are lots of threats and dangers whereever we are and whatever we are doing - if we banned all threat and danger there would be just an empty void a waste land - cos we would all be gone lol !!!


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

I personally hate smokers, I don't smoke, I can not stand the smell, yet people will light up and smoke around me without my permission, even in my own house. I don't think that's on, if you want to smoke then fine, but at least respect others and not smoke around people that don't want to stink like ciggies!


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

and as for smoking outside hospitals ( totally didn't even realise it said that in the thread)

it annoys me, when I used to see my friend, who had cancer, you could smell the smoke from outside in her room, she didn't smoke herself and I really don't think this helped at all


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> I personally hate smokers, I don't smoke, I can not stand the smell, yet people will light up and smoke around me without my permission, even in my own house. I don't think that's on, if you want to smoke then fine, but at least respect others and not smoke around people that don't want to stink like ciggies!


Well cut such rude people out of your life and don't invite them into your house then!


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> Well cut such rude people out of your life and don't invite them into your house then!


I live with my mum so she kinda has say over who comes, and as one of the smokers is my own sister im apparently not allowed to ban her from coming

but, she doesn't seem to realise the smell lingers long after she has gone 

shes like oh just spray air freshener lol
sure her smell buds have been destroyed


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I am an occasional smoker - mostly social - if I went to someones house who didnt smoke and I wanted one I would NEVER smoke inside their home unless they said it was okay - tbo the majority of smokers I know are extremely aware of not wanting to offend anyone and will always go outside for one even if someone says its ok! - to say you HATE people who smoke is extreme - save hatred for people who really deserve that title .........


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> I live with my mum so she kinda has say over who comes, and as one of the smokers is my own sister im apparently not allowed to ban her from coming
> 
> but, she doesn't seem to realise the smell lingers long after she has gone
> 
> ...


So you hate your sister


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> I am an occasional smoker - mostly social - if I went to someones house who didnt smoke and I wanted one I would NEVER smoke inside their home unless they said it was okay - tbo the majority of smokers I know are extremely aware of not wanting to offend anyone and will always go outside for one even if someone says its ok! -* to say you HATE people who smoke is extreme - save hatred for people who really deserve that title *.........


you've just posted about how non smokers just wanna nit pick at things and be awkward then you nit picking at my choice of wording lol
yeah there are worse things but im not gonna sit here for ages thinking now do I actually hate that or do I just really dislike it or does it just annoy me 
dont nit pick at my wording


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> you've just posted about how non smokers just wanna nit pick at things and be awkward then you nit picking at my choice of wording lol
> yeah there are worse things but im not gonna sit here for ages thinking now do I actually hate that or do I just really dislike it or does it just annoy me
> dont nit pick at my wording


Yes but saying they nit pick is an observation - im not saying I hate them for nit picking - there is a difference  I think you probably get "annoyed" or "irritated" by people who smoke - that is a fair thing to say - perhaps if you DID sit and think about what justifies saying you hate someone you would realise how silly it sounds - - sorry its just a real bug bear with me - hate is such a strong word that is banded round so nilly willy .......:nono:

Anyway sorry for taking off topic!!!:tongue_smilie::crazy:


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes but saying they nit pick is an observation - im not saying I hate them for nit picking - there is a difference  I think you probably get "annoyed" or "irritated" by people who smoke - that is a fair thing to say - perhaps if you DID sit and think about what justifies saying you hate someone you would realise how silly it sounds - - sorry its just a real bug bear with me - hate is such a strong word that is banded round so nilly willy .......:nono:
> 
> Anyway sorry for taking off topic!!!:tongue_smilie::crazy:


I haven't slept yet, im getting far too confused now lol


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> I haven't slept yet, im getting far too confused now lol


we will just move on  :smile:


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

I think smoking should be banned in public places altogether. 
Its not right that if u go shopping or go to hospital u are forced to inhale someone else's smoke because they are smoking in front of entrances etc
Also walking along in the town people walking past u or in front of u smoking and all the smoke hits the child sitting in the buggy its disgusting. I can hold my breath...the child cant.

If someone drinks or takes drugs then im not forced to swallow their alcohol or drugs, but im forced to inhale smokers second hand smoke. Its not right.
I have also known of people that went on stealing and cause trouble to afford their smoking habit, just like some drug addicts do.

And even if there were designated areas for smokers outside, I very much doubt they would be used because they would most likely be further away from entrances and to walk that little bit of extra to get there to sit with strangers in a cloud of smoke I dont think it would be used by most. Its a lot easier to light up in front of an entrance for a few puffs.

I don't mind people smoking, they can do what they want with their own health, but in their own private 4 walls.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Where I live (a state in the USA) smoking is banned within 50 feet of any building that has public access.

This is a wonderful law, though it took some time to get every public place (including clinics and grocery stores and hospitals, not to mention sheltered workshops and office buildings) to enforce it. Just about everyone does now, finally. I did a lot of complaining myself, after the law was passed. 

It's so nasty to have to walk through a wall of smoke, then smell like a smoker for the remainder of the day, ugh! 

FWIW I am an ex smoker. However, even when I did smoke, I was very apologetic about it. I wouldn't have dreamed of standing in a public doorway exposing others to my filthy habit. 

I know how difficult it is to quit. I never would have believed in my smoking days that I could do it. But it's been 14+ years now, and the freedom from nicotine slavery is a daily joy.

PS and you smokers should know, smoking outside doesn't eliminate the smell from your person. I work in a job where I serve the public. The smoke reek of people coming in to my window just about knocks me over sometimes. And they aren't smoking on the property since it is against the law. They have to walk a ways outside, then inside, to get to my window. But boy they stink.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Smoke wafting around buggies - are there lots of very short smokers in your area or does everone have arms the length of an orang-utan


----------



## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I hate intolerant people....


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lorilu said:


> Where I live (a state in the USA) smoking is banned within 50 feet of any building that has public access.
> 
> This is a wonderful law, though it took some time to get every public place (including clinics and grocery stores and hospitals, not to mention sheltered workshops and office buildings) to enforce it. Just about everyone does now, finally. I did a lot of complaining myself, after the law was passed.
> 
> ...


As are all the smokers I personally know - who are all these people blowing smoke in everyones faces, cluttering up doorways, lobbing ash into wheelchairs and pushchairs and burning little children

Its very rare I even see anyone smoking in the street so I wonder what deprived hell holes some of you live in


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I dont particularly like sitting on the bus on the way home from work next to someone who has been drinking in the pub all afternoon - they are often very obnoxious and aggressive to the passengers and drivers and they breath all their dirty drink breath all over me .....but its life and I get over it :blink:


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

u don't need to intentionally blow smoke into someone's face, a little bit of wind outside will do it for u no problem.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> As are all the smokers I personally know - who are all these people blowing smoke in everyones faces, cluttering up doorways, lobbing ash into wheelchairs and pushchairs and burning little children
> 
> Its very rare I even see anyone smoking in the street so I wonder what deprived hell holes some of you live in


I actually work in a civilized city. In my job I have to walk to the bank and post office every day. I inevitably get behind someone walking down the sidewalk smoking and it just about gags me every time. I spend a lot of time crossing the streets to get away from them.

And yes, frequently these are people with children.It seems to me, the more smoking is restricted, the more defiant some smokers get. Sure you have a right to smoke if you want. But you don't have a right to expose others to it.


----------



## Quirk (Nov 12, 2013)

Im not a smoker (but i have other vices) and apart from a few idiots, *usually* younger smokers trying to impress, look cool or whatever I've always found smokers to be considerate. The will blow their smoke the other way, walk a few steps away from me, turn round etc to keep smoke from blowing in my face.

I do agree people shouldn't smoke right in door ways, the same as i don't think any group of people should stand about there, because doorways should remain clear.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Natik said:


> I think smoking should be banned in public places altogether.
> Its not right that if u go shopping or go to hospital u are forced to inhale someone else's smoke because they are smoking in front of entrances etc
> Also walking along in the town people walking past u or in front of u smoking and all the smoke hits the child sitting in the buggy its disgusting. I can hold my breath...the child cant.
> 
> ...


But you could be the recipient of being knocked over by the said drinker who was also driving at the time .....you could be the woman in a relationship whos husbands fist fly when he has that extra pint of stella - you could be the house the drug user broke into to get goods or money for their next fix ......??? for most addictions there is a knock on effect - to say smokers are the only one is wrong


----------



## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Flipping eck  after reading through all these pages ...... I need a ***


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I think I need a mask! :cryin:


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

tincan said:


> Flipping eck  after reading through all these pages ...... I need a ***


:lol::lol::lol:



gorgeous said:


> I think I need a mask! :cryin:


Botty burps again?


----------



## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

gorgeous said:


> I think I need a mask! :cryin:


PMSL ...... Have heard about people like you


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

I don't like ( didn't use hate this time suzy ) the smell of people that have been drinking for hours but it doesn't make me almost cough my insides out the way the smell of smoke does
im very sensitive to smoke and I can usually smell smoke before I even see the person smoking
its not nice to have a choking fit just walking down the street because people cant wait till they're home
also not nice for me to go out smelling nice and fresh like roses (not exactly but still) to then smell like smoke by the time ive reach my destination 

I just don't understand why people cant wait till they are home :blink:


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

tincan said:


> Flipping eck  after reading through all these pages ...... I need a ***


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

This thread so far - 140 replies, 1260 views

Ian Watkins Guilty thread - 38 replies, 563 views

Domestic Violence thread - 33 replies, 366 views


How sad that our sensibilities are so affronted in such a warped way


----------



## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Our local hospital Trust banned it many years ago - through my work until recently- I often got out to Trusts in England -and many time saw the sign that smoking was banned anywhere on the site. 

I agree there is nothing worse than looking at any building (not just hospitals) and seeing people smoking outside - but - people ARE going to smoke - and the laws have pushed people outside to do this - some pubs have been able to set up "gardens" with heaters so people can smoke outside (many who couldn't have closed down). 

Having said that - these laws aren't going to stop people smoking - banning it would just create another black market to battle - effectively creating even more risks to smoking than there are already. 

I can remember one place I worked (long before the laws came in) - some of the staff complained about smoking in the canteen - so the company created a smoking room; all those who complained started taking their food in there so they could be with their friends at break times  so it didn't really achieve much. 

I do think there should be "somewhere" that people can go to smoke where-ever they are - some organisations have created smoking shelters out of sight of the public eye and well away from areas where non-smokers would even need to go - if they do - then that's their choice - unlike walking through entrances they can't avoid.

I recall my daughter whining about the main pub area smelling like a "smoking hall" - they can't win - they were stopped smoking inside - so the pubs put ashtrays and sometimes cover facilities outside - and that too was wrong.

The government (or nanny state as we are increasingly becoming) can set as many rules as they like regarding smoking (drinking and many other vices) - but unless people want to give up - these laws won't stop them - and clearly it seems the problem just moves somewhere else (whereas previously - hospitals had smoking rooms which non-smokers didn't have to go near) - but that was banned.


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> But you could be the recipient of being knocked over by the said drinker who was also driving at the time .....you could be the woman in a relationship whos husbands fist fly when he has that extra pint of stella - you could be the house the drug user broke into to get goods or money for their next fix ......??? for most addictions there is a knock on effect - to say smokers are the only one is wrong


but I didn't saying smokers are the only ones wrong.

Yes, addictions often contribute to dangerous behaviours, but just as much I can be mowed down by an alcoholic I can also be knocked down by someone lightning up while driving.

Im just making the point that Health wise I don't get the choice of not inhaling the smoke that can cause disease and ill health later in MY life.
I don't think anyone would be happy if someone poured alcohol down their throats against their will just because they need to enter the shop to do some grocery shopping or want to take a stroll down the town with their child.


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> As are all the smokers I personally know - who are all these people blowing smoke in everyones faces, cluttering up doorways, lobbing ash into wheelchairs and pushchairs and burning little children
> 
> Its very rare I even see anyone smoking in the street so I wonder what deprived hell holes some of you live in


I live in a pretty market town and the inconsiderate smokers are out in force here every market day (Monday, Friday, Saturday usually). I had to stop going to the markets with my children as I was forever having to yank them out of the way of people swinging their lit cigarettes at their face level or lobbing the butts without looking to see where they might land. It's likely these smokers were in the minority but, as happens with human perception, it's the bad stuff you tend to remember.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

all you non smokers in favor of the ban seem to be missing something very important - I've mentioned it before but none of you seem to take any notice.

ENFORCABILITY.

We've already seen posts from people saying there are smoking bans in X places but people smoke anyway. We've seen posts saying people smoke in doorways rather than use the designated smoke areas.
Why? because the ban is unenforcable. Maybe it could be enforced but is that really where you want the nhs to be spending their money?

If anything is to be done about it, it needs to be done via cooperation, not persecution. It can only work if smokers will cooperate and persecuting them isnt going to motivate them to do that.

As for the notion "it's bad for other people around you who have no choice but to breathe it, so it should be banned" - i'll buy that argument as soon as cars are banned too.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

It's enforceable. Fine the business that isn't enforcing it. The problem will go away very quickly.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

lorilu said:


> It's enforceable. Fine the business that isn't enforcing it. The problem will go away very quickly.


What a great use of the NHS's limited resources


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lorilu said:


> It's enforceable. Fine the business that isn't enforcing it. The problem will go away very quickly.


So you want the NHS to employ smoking wardens to patrol the grounds because if they don't they would be fined. Good use of the already stretched resources


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

<shrug> I think the health of the general public is worth a few patrols and fines. After all, reducing the exposure to second hand smoke is going to reduce people needing dr visits for smoke related illnesses such as asthma and other lung diseases.

As I said, where I live the law has been around now for over 5 years, and in most places with public access, it is no longer a problem, though it took time for some places to come around.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lorilu said:


> <shrug> I think the health of the general public is worth a few patrols and fines. After all, reducing the exposure to second hand smoke is going to reduce people needing dr visits for smoke related illnesses such as asthma and other lung diseases.
> 
> As I said, where I live the law has been around now for over 5 years, and in most places with public access, it is no longer a problem, though it took time for some places to come around.


Precisely and its pretty much the same around the country I should imagine hence no need for any extra measures nor all this indignation!


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Precisely and its pretty much the same around the country I should imagine hence no need for any extra measures nor all this indignation!


It's no longer a problem BECAUSE of the law passed and _enforced_.


----------



## 642 (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't smoke myself but at my local hospital you tend to go and there's usually about four or five people having a cigarette near the doors and I don't find it to be that bad. If they were all crowded right outside the door so I had to literally walk right through them in order to get into the doors, I might be a bit funnier about it but typically they go a couple of metres away from the door so it doesn't bother me. 
The staff go a little further out to behind a barrier thing which if I'm right, is just outside of hospital grounds so they can get away with the "no smoking on hospital premises" rule.

To be fair, sometimes I see people in wheelchairs, hooked up to drips and other wires and I go :O but then I think for all I know, they could be dying and if they want a cigarette, they can have a cigarette - no point in being denied something which they want in their last weeks/ days/ whatever. And besides, these days to be in hospital, you have to be really ill so I'd rather they smoke outside the door where if something happened like they collapsed, they'd be found than put them around the back in a smoking shelter which is "out of sight, out of mind".


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lorilu said:


> It's no longer a problem BECAUSE of the law passed and _enforced_.


But you are advocating further measures (with associated costs) which are not necessary because its not a problem as existing laws work :blink:


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> I don't like ( didn't use hate this time suzy ) the smell of people that have been drinking for hours but it doesn't make me almost cough my insides out the way the smell of smoke does
> im very sensitive to smoke and I can usually smell smoke before I even see the person smoking
> its not nice to have a choking fit just walking down the street because people cant wait till they're home
> also not nice for me to go out smelling nice and fresh like roses (not exactly but still) to then smell like smoke by the time ive reach my destination
> ...


Why should smokers have to wait until they're home just because it makes YOU cough. Why do non-smokers think they're so important? I'm a polite smoker in when I smoke I don't smoke outside entrances, I don't smoke around children, I don't blow smoke in peoples faces. It's not my problem that you don't like the smell of smoke, if it offends you that much then don't sit near smokers or don't walk past them. If I found something that disgusting then I wouldn't go near it or I would avoid it.

I find seeing fat people eating McDonald's makes me feel sick, like seriously sick, it puts me off my food, I want to chunder everywhere. So should that be banned too because I don't like it?

As long as it's not being blown into your face then I don't see why non-smokers get so annoyed about it. I agree that there should be a place where smokers can go and smoke on hospital grounds and I don't agree with smokers smoking outside entrances. But to say it should be banned because you don't like it is a bit silly.

The way I see it is if I'm being respectful to you as in not smoking in an entrance or around children or blowing it in your face then you should be respectful to me and let me have my *** in peace!


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> But you are advocating further measures (with associated costs) which are not necessary because its not a problem as existing laws work :blink:


The existing laws work _now_ *because they were enforced when passed and enforcement continues when necessary. *


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lorilu said:


> The existing laws work _now_ *because they were enforced when passed and enforcement continues when necessary. *


Why do you want more laws then

*AND WHY DO YOU KEEP SHOUTING :001_smile:*


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

porps said:


> all you non smokers in favor of the ban seem to be missing something very important - I've mentioned it before but none of you seem to take any notice.
> 
> ENFORCABILITY.
> 
> ...


The trouble with that sort of reasoning is that you can argue most laws are difficult and costly to enforce so where do you draw the line? Of course if people were just considerate and reasonable we wouldn't need constantly updated legislation about what is and isn't acceptable and where. Unfortunately a lot aren't.

Take hospital parking as an example. Where I live it used to be free but then all of the commuters would park up for the day and walk to the station to avoid paying their charges leaving no spaces for legitimate hospital users. So the car park became a pay and display with the money going to the hospital whilst the patrolling and fining are tendered out to a private company. I'd assume, if a complete ban came into place at hospitals, this is how it would be done - by private companies enforcing it, earning profits from the fines.

Of course, just like with the parking, the smoking will likely just be pushed on to a different area.

FWIW I'm quite happy for smokers to have (free to use) designated smoking areas in public places that are easily avoided by non-smokers. I'm not out to tell people what they should be doing with themselves, I just don't want to be negatively impacted by it.


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

Royoyo said:


> Why should smokers have to wait until they're home just because it makes YOU cough. Why do non-smokers think they're so important? I'm a polite smoker in when I smoke I don't smoke outside entrances, I don't smoke around children, I don't blow smoke in peoples faces. It's not my problem that you don't like the smell of smoke, if it offends you that much then don't sit near smokers or don't walk past them. If I found something that disgusting then I wouldn't go near it or I would avoid it.
> 
> I find seeing fat people eating McDonald's makes me feel sick, like seriously sick, it puts me off my food, I want to chunder everywhere. So should that be banned too because I don't like it?
> 
> ...


if someone is walking in front of me I usually cant see them smoking so wouldn't now to avoid
my very good friend died last year from lung cancer, she had never touched a cigarette in her life, yet her lungs were that of a long time smoker. Just from other people smoking around her. So yeah, I do think people should wait until they get home.
you might be a polite smoker but smoke travels. You seeing "fat" people eating food isn't going to cause you to get a terminal illness is it? Leaving parents without their daughter and a young boy without his mother. That's what ive seen smoke cause to happen, so sorry if I am not a bit more accepting of smokers. 
Just because you don't blow your smoke into peoples faces it does not mean it doesn't reach them
My opinion was different before my friend passed, but now, whenever I see a person smoking out in the public I cant help but think what innocent person might suffer because of it
Im not going to apologise for feeling that way.


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> if someone is walking in front of me I usually cant see them smoking so wouldn't now to avoid
> my very good friend died last year from lung cancer, she had never touched a cigarette in her life, yet her lungs were that of a long time smoker. Just from other people smoking around her. So yeah, I do think people should wait until they get home.
> you might be a polite smoker but smoke travels. You seeing "fat" people eating food isn't going to cause you to get a terminal illness is it? Leaving parents without their daughter and a young boy without his mother. That's what ive seen smoke cause to happen, so sorry if I am not a bit more accepting of smokers.
> Just because you don't blow your smoke into peoples faces it does not mean it doesn't reach them
> ...


I'm sorry about your friend, I really am and I don't expect you to apologise about your opinion on smokers, but I wont apologise for mine either.

I think it's pretty ridiculous how you expect people to wait until they get home to smoke.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think what it comes down to is RESPECT from both sides - smokers have a right to smoke if they wish in areas that are legal - it is legal after all remember  and non smokers have a right not to be subjected to smoke etc - its about a happy medium really but it aint gonna happen because as in all ways of life there are the ODD few who will spoil it for the majority who do try and have some ettiquette whilst smoking and take others into consideration:glare:


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

S&L I too am very sorry about your friend but not all lung cancers are caused by smoking. If it was a smoking related cancer then it could not have been from a mere amount passing someone in the street it would have to be a more prolonged and much heavier amount


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> This thread so far - 140 replies, 1260 views
> 
> Ian Watkins Guilty thread - 38 replies, 563 views
> 
> ...


I've only just seen this. Tbh I started to read both the other threads but found them too upsetting to want to stick around in. So it's not that smoking upsets me more, quite the opposite.


----------



## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

I would like to see smoking banned in public because as far as I can tell, very few smokers have respect for non smokers simply because it is their choice to smoke so they do, without much thought for others.

My parents were both heavy smokers so us children had no choice but to breathe in their smoke as they didn't go outside to smoke. My dad gave up a few years ago and immediately set rules that under no circumstances was anyone to smoke indoors. He says now that he can see why non smokers complain.

The smell of cigarette smoke is one of the most horrible smells (in my opinion) and the idea of being expected to hold your breath in until you pass is laughable as you can still smell it, anyhow why should non smokers have to hold their breath because smokers choose to smoke in public places? That's hardly fair or very respectful?

Bins are provided for butts but you regularly see butts laying on the floor, smokers hang around shop entrances puffing away having no concern for people going in and out. 

I've had two dresses binned because they were burned by clumsy smokers.

Hospitals are there to help people get back to health, smoking should not be acceptable anywhere near the entrance and that should be strictly enforced. Junk food should also be banned as it totally sets the wrong example.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Mulish said:


> The trouble with that sort of reasoning is that you can argue most laws are difficult and costly to enforce so where do you draw the line? Of course if people were just considerate and reasonable we wouldn't need constantly updated legislation about what is and isn't acceptable and where. Unfortunately a lot aren't.
> 
> Take hospital parking as an example. Where I live it used to be free but then all of the commuters would park up for the day and walk to the station to avoid paying their charges leaving no spaces for legitimate hospital users. So the car park became a pay and display with the money going to the hospital whilst the patrolling and fining are tendered out to a private company. I'd assume, if a complete ban came into place at hospitals, this is how it would be done - by private companies enforcing it, earning profits from the fines.
> 
> FWIW I'm quite happy for smokers to have (free to use) designated smoking areas in public places that are easily avoided by non-smokers. I'm not out to tell people what they should be doing with themselves, I just don't want to be negatively impacted by it.


well i live near a hospital and its a pain the arse for residents around here since all the people from the hospital just park on the streets instead to avoid paying.. i dont drive but i know it angers a lot of people round here when they cant park their own cars. like you say it just pushes it to another area, and thats why i dont feel the analogy works - If pushing it to another area is desirable then why not have a smoking area instead of a ban, then at least you know where it's being pushed to.

Besides, i still maintain that if for example i was smoking on hospital grounds and some smoke warden came and tried to make me pay a fine he would not be able to get any money or details from me before i simply walked away.

With parking you have a license plate to go off so you already have the persons details. The license plates make it enforcable, not the fine. Of course we could start branding humans with barcodes, that would help.


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

IrishEyes said:


> I've had two dresses binned because they were burned by clumsy smokers.


which reminds me, when I was on a night out queing up to go in a club thing so not even in the smoking area a person walked past with a cig and burnt my hand
I still have the scar
carelessness, could have easily have been someones eye and not my hand cause they was too drunk to pay attention


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't know where any of you live but to be fair I don't ever see groups of smokers standing outside shops smoking. I think maybe non smokers over exaggerate about it all a bit too much.


----------



## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

Royoyo said:


> I don't know where any of you live but to be fair I don't ever see groups of smokers standing outside shops smoking. I think maybe non smokers over exaggerate about it all a bit too much.


Not exaggerating at all, I see it every single day and have to pass it.


----------



## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Haven't read the whole thread ..... it's 17 pages fgs  

I work in a hospital that already has a no smoking policy, but that certainly doesn't stop people smoking outside maternity, outside the main entrance, outside the restaurants, you name it they smoke outside it  How the hospital will ever stop it, well they won't! They have security people who are supposed to tell people not to smoke, all they get is abuse  You try telling a drunk outside A & E on a Friday night to put his *** out :crazy:


What they should do is provide proper smoking areas, security at least have half a chance of moving someone to a specific area so they can still smoke.

Staff are not allowed to smoke, or they risk their job. Mind you in a hospital the size of this one, doctors, nurses, admin ........ they know where to go to not get caught :tongue_smilie:


As for hospital parking, don't even get me started on that one :lol:


----------



## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

I think smoking should be banned outside hospital entrances. Actually I think it should be banned in all public areas unless in a designated smoking area, with signs so that non-smokers don't have to go through the smoke. 

Its a horrible drug (just like: Alcohol, Cocaine, Heroine ect) its highly addictive and harms health of not only the smoker but also people inhaling second hand smoke. There needs to be more help given to help people kick the addiction. 

Smokers should be more aware of other people, dangling cigarettes by their side where it can burn clothes, children and people in wheelchairs, blowing smoke in peoples faces (mostly by accident). If they didn't do stuff like that, totally oblivious to the other people, then not as many people would hate it.


----------



## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Because of my various health problems I have to go to the hospital every week sometimes upto 3 times a week, as a non smoker I hate the smell of cigarettes and to have to walk past at least 10 people in hospital wheel chairs smoking just to get into the main door makes me feel quite ill.

Especially when you can hear the sicker ones coughing their guts up yet continuing to smoke!! 

Worst part is they all stand literally at the door because there's shelter from wind/rain there but that means any new mums or sick kids have to walk past to get to the children units. 

I grew up with my mum smoking ALOT and I remember feeling my throat burn when I'd walk into the room she'd been smoking in, so god knows why anyone who's already ill would want to inflict that on their insides too is beyond me.


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

porps said:


> well i live near a hospital and its a pain the arse for residents around here since all the people from the hospital just park on the streets instead to avoid paying.. i dont drive but i know it angers a lot of people round here when they cant park their own cars. like you say it just pushes it to another area, and thats why i dont feel the analogy works - If pushing it to another area is desirable then why not have a smoking area instead of a ban, then at least you know where it's being pushed to.
> 
> Besides, i still maintain that if for example i was smoking on hospital grounds and some smoke warden came and tried to make me pay a fine he would not be able to get any money or details from me before i simply walked away.
> 
> With parking you have a license plate to go off so you already have the persons details. The license plates make it enforcable, not the fine. Of course we could start branding humans with barcodes, that would help.


Lol, shh about the barcodes, don't give _them_ any ideas :idea:

Like I said, I'm all for shelters but there use should be enforced. Last time I was in A&E with my daughter, we had to wait by the pick up/drop off point for my hubby to pick us up. This is a covered area directly outside the A&E sliding doors and this area had 4 or 5 people, spread out and puffing so there was nowhere to stand away from them. The smoker's designated shelter, which was only a few metres away, had one person in it.

As to why us non-smokers see the lack of consideration whilst the smokers don't, I'd guess that it's because smoking doesn't bother you so it doesn't register. Just like children's noise doesn't worry me but annoys the anti-kid brigade. If you were stood outside a hospital waiting on a lift, if people around you lit up you probably wouldn't mind but I would. Whilst if I'm in a supermarket and a stroppy toddler is kicking off I just feel sympathy for the parent but it might well irritate you.

I wouldn't let my kids run around outside an entrance, forcing people to walk around or through them so why should I have to play dodge the smoker?

Reason we all keep going around and around in circles is that the smokers in this thread do their best to be considerate so us non-smokers aren't noticing you when we're out and about.


----------



## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I don't smoke, never have, my only thoughts about banning smoking here there and everywhere, its like saying you can buy them but you can't smoke them. Why don't they just ban tobacco period.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sskmick said:


> I don't smoke, never have, my only thoughts about banning smoking here there and everywhere, its like saying you can buy them but you can't smoke them. Why don't they just ban tobacco period.


To be honest, I agree, as an occasional smoker I wouldn't miss it hugely.


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

sskmick said:


> I don't smoke, never have, my only thoughts about banning smoking here there and everywhere, its like saying you can buy them but you can't smoke them. Why don't they just ban tobacco period.


Money. I wouldn't like to guess at the billions of pounds resting on the tobacco industry. Besides people want to smoke so if it was illegal, it'd just go the same way as marijuana with small time users caught and punished whilst big, unscrupulous gangs make shed loads. At least whilst the production and sale is legal the government can tax it so there's something going back into the NHS.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Mulish said:


> Lol, shh about the barcodes, don't give _them_ any ideas :idea:
> 
> Like I said, I'm all for shelters but there use should be enforced. Last time I was in A&E with my daughter, we had to wait by the pick up/drop off point for my hubby to pick us up. This is a covered area directly outside the A&E sliding doors and this area had 4 or 5 people, spread out and puffing so there was nowhere to stand away from them. The smoker's designated shelter, which was only a few metres away, had one person in it.
> 
> ...


Good post^



Mulish said:


> I wouldn't let my kids run around outside an entrance, forcing people to walk around or through them so why should I have to play dodge the smoker?


Exactly, and we dont campaign to ban kids in all public places just because of the minority of people who let their kids run rampant without considering others. We dont "punish" (for want of a better word) the majority because of an inconsiderate minority. Why this cant be applied to smokers too i have no idea.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

porps said:


> Good post^
> 
> Exactly, and we dont campaign to ban kids in all public places just because of the minority of people who let their kids run rampant without considering others. We dont "punish" (for want of a better word) the majority because of an inconsiderate minority. Why this cant be applied to smokers too i have no idea.


Are you serious? You're equating having kids to smoking?


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

porps said:


> Good post^
> 
> Exactly, and we dont campaign to ban kids in all public places just because of the minority of people who let their kids run rampant without considering others. We dont "punish" (for want of a better word) the majority because of an inconsiderate minority. Why this cant be applied to smokers too i have no idea.


I know a couple of people who'd happily campaign for kids to be banned from public places 

Carrying on the analogy, though, there are places children aren't allowed (some pubs and clubs, even special hotels and holiday resorts). As a parent I wouldn't dream of hanging around just outside of one of these places with my children, seeing which one could shriek the loudest. So why should smokers stand about directly outside of places they aren't allowed to smoke? There's no invisible air barrier that will magically stop the smoke from travelling into the place it shouldn't be, is there?

I take my kids where they are not only technically allowed but also welcome. If all smokers did the same with their cigarettes, I don't think there'd be such an issue.

(I don't think you and I are actually on opposing sides with this, porps, as you want smokers to be left to smoke in peace in their shelters and so do I.)


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Are you serious? You're equating having kids to smoking?


To be fair, I think I did that first. I was just trying to think of something I did that could be equally annoying to others as smoking is to me.

For some reason my head went Annoying = Children (it's been a long week!)


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

porps said:


> i smoke, and i dont think it should be banned outside hospitals, or outside anywhere tbh (it's outside fgs), but especially hospitals.
> 
> Was always a real struggle getting my mother to go into hospital, no matter how ill she was - she hated those places. i can only imagine how difficult it wouldve been if she knew she wouldnt be able to smoke for the duration of her stay, so i say no. (not that i expect non smokers to give a crap about anything like that, they are too busy whining about more important things like wether their clothes smell slightly of smoke for a moment or 2 or wether they happen to passively breath in a couple of smoke particles)
> 
> ...


Well no, its not that simple when you have to walk through a wall of smoke to get in the main entrance because they are all sat within spitting distance of the door..

I do think it should be banned, in public full stop!

Im sick to death of walking through smoke to walk my kids through the school gate.... im also sick of seeing women who are ready to pop sucking on a *** while walking their babies in a buggy...Yes, its your choice to smoke but a baby didn't sign up for it!


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Are you serious? You're equating having kids to smoking?


I think he is equating things that can annoy people, and some things that annoy some people dont annoy others.

I am a mother, and I do have to admit, if I am on a flight, or in a restaurant, or where ever, and someone lets their kids run riot, scream, shout, cry, and go up to other people demanding attention, and those people are just trying to keep themselves to themselves, then yes, it bloody annoys me!

I _never _let Jake behave like that, ever. So why is it so hard for _other_ people to keep their children from intruding on other peoples space and time?

Just like, as a smoker, I dont stand right by an entrance (of anywhere) and puff my smoke into other peoples faces.

If there are designated smoking areas, thats where I will go. If there isn't, I will stand around a corner or something - somewhere that isn't going to impede on other people.

I think Porps post was just saying that there are a lot of things can annoy people - and we dont make rules to make sure those things dont annoy everybody - if we did, there would be nothing we could do - it really would be 1984!

If _everyone_ showed a little tolerance to everyone else, it would be a much nicer world


----------



## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> If _everyone_ showed a little tolerance to everyone else, it would be a much nicer world


But a much quieter forum


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Smoking is banned on hospital grounds here and public health facilities.

Wish they'd ban smoking in cars, currently it's only banned if there are children in the car, or at least make them have the windows up, hate driving next to someone with their smoke blowing into my car.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> I think he is equating things that can annoy people, and some things that annoy some people dont annoy others.
> 
> I am a mother, and I do have to admit, if I am on a flight, or in a restaurant, or where ever, and someone lets their kids run riot, scream, shout, cry, and go up to other people demanding attention, and those people are just trying to keep themselves to themselves, then yes, it bloody annoys me!
> 
> ...


exactly


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Smoking is banned on hospital grounds here and public health facilities.
> 
> Wish they'd ban smoking in cars, currently it's only banned if there are children in the car, or at least make them have the windows up, hate driving next to someone with their smoke blowing into my car.


My car is petrol. I hate others drivers diesel fumes coming into my car. Should we ban everyone from driving diesel car just because _I_ dont want to breathe their fumes?


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

spotty cats said:


> Wish they'd ban smoking in cars, currently it's only banned if there are children in the car, or at least make them have the windows up, hate driving next to someone with their smoke blowing into my car.


Are you being serious  haha


----------



## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Blimming eck .... we are starting to split hairs now  driving next to cars who have smokers in them  .... Put yer foot down you have an escape pedal , or wind your window up , you have air con ...... Sorry SC I just find this a bit extreme .... I'd be more worried about smokers flicking their **** out of open car windows in Oz


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

very few people are getting at the health concerns of smoking and passive smoking
yes the smell might be horrible and whatever else but its also very unhealthy

yeah, I understand walking through a street you are probably breathing in fumes anyway from factories cars and whatever else 

but smoking, is something I choose not to do but still have to inhale it anyway, it isn't fair.

it would be a whole different story was injecting heroin into someone else, if self harmers started cutting other people, Why is smoking so widely accepted when it has been proven to cause so much damage? 

If people choose to do it, that is their choice and it shouldn't have to be forced upon the general population too


----------



## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

People do inject heroin into others , self harmers also cut other people ..... Doers & Enablers enable & help out ..... I am not having a go at you S&L , but that statement is totally wrong ..


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> very few people are getting at the health concerns of smoking and passive smoking
> yes the smell might be horrible and whatever else but its also very unhealthy
> 
> yeah, I understand walking through a street you are probably breathing in fumes anyway from factories cars and whatever else
> ...


Then dont walk next to people smoking in the great outdoors!

I will never smoke next to a friend that doesnt like smoking - I will even move to a different outside space, within their domain - I will not inflict my smoking on people that ask me not to - people that I know and love, know that I am very open to be asked to move to a different space etc.

I am definitely not open to be being told by total strangers that I cant smoke in my own car (which I dont by the way), or I cant smoke around the corner or the back of my office 

I dont come up to people that reek of cheap perfume and tell them they are offending my olfactory senses, so why the hell do they think they have the right to do that to me?


----------



## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

offending my olfactory senses,



Cor blimey Kez ...... no need to be putting on the poshness  .... it won't wash darling lol x


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

ok lets face it the smokers and non smokers aren't gonna agree

but what i would like to add is, dont assume that just cause you are considerate when you smoke that everyone else is.


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

But then it does work both ways, I think it's unfair how all smokers get tarred with the same brush (excuse the pun ). For the people who are considerate it's irritating when non smokers just assume that because we smoke we are people with no morals or something. That's why it just goes round and round in circles.

Just look at this thread and the things that have been said about smokers apparently we smell, we have yellow teeth, we have bad breath, we smoke outside entrances and around children and gang up around shops in big groups smoking, we are disgusting and some people even hate us because we smoke. 

I don't think that's very fair. 

Like what's been said before it's all about respect and it works both ways.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> ok lets face it the smokers and non smokers aren't gonna agree
> 
> but what i would like to add is, dont assume that just cause you are considerate when you smoke that everyone else is.


i dont know about that, i think many of us do agree.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

The thread title seems to give a clue to what this is about, it's not about someone's noisy children spoiling a bus journey, or your afternoon in the garden, it's not about binge drinking, or people taking drugs, or a neighbours dog eating a cat, all of which are very annoying to varying degrees. It's just one excuse after another. Smoking kills, hospitals and the people employed by hospitals are there to save lives, simples.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Prowl said:


> Its really disrespectfull and selfish to smoke near the entrance.
> 
> Maybe they should ban the creation of cigeretts why do they have to be made anyway?


Because the government would lose billions in tax is they did not make them and sell them legally. If they stopped making them, they would go underground, still be sold and the powers that be would lose out on the tax.

As to should it banned outside hospitals, certainly not. There is usually a specific bench not far from the entrance where people can smoke; patients nipping out for a *** cannot go too far, especially if attached to a portable drip machine. I do not think there is a need to ban smoking anywhere out in the open. Now if they want to ban drinking alcohol, I am all for it.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Royoyo said:


> But then it does work both ways, I think it's unfair how all smokers get tarred with the same brush (excuse the pun ). For the people who are considerate it's irritating when non smokers just assume that because we smoke we are people with no morals or something. That's why it just goes round and round in circles.
> 
> Just look at this thread and the things that have been said about smokers apparently we smell, we have yellow teeth, we have bad breath, we smoke outside entrances and around children and gang up around shops in big groups smoking, we are disgusting and some people even hate us because we smoke.
> 
> ...


That is funny. When did anyone last see a gang of old age pensioners blocking a shop entrance with their ****? Sounds like another dig at teenagers to me.


----------



## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> Because the government would lose billions in tax is they did not make them and sell them legally. If they stopped making them, they would go underground, still be sold and the powers that be would lose out on the tax.
> 
> As to should it banned outside hospitals, certainly not. There is usually a specific bench not far from the entrance where people can smoke; patients nipping out for a *** cannot go too far, especially if attached to a portable drip machine. I do not think there is a need to ban smoking anywhere out in the open. Now if they want to ban drinking alcohol, I am all for it.


What is the point of having a bench/smoking shelter if no one uses it...?

You say there's no need to ban it out in the open but the smoke lingers a fair distance even if you can't see it or smell it ( although as a non smoker I can ALWAYS smell it a while after the smoker has left, I genuinely don't think smokers actually realise, or care, how long it lingers)

Additionally, you usually have a group of smokers together in the same area so the smoke isn't going to disappear anytime soon, the open air offers little protection.

Hospitals are there to care for sick people, cigarette smoke IS bad for you and it is also bad for everyone else that breathes it in nearby.
It has no place anywhere near a hospital. 
The fact that sick (non smoking) individuals cannot get out and enjoy the fresh air without being suffocated by a cloud of smoke is absolutely disgusting.

At my local hospital, there are smoking shelters.
I have yet to see anyone using them.

Most smokers location of choice is the hospital entrance or a bench near maternity that has ENORMOUS signs asking people not to smoke because the benches are directly above the neonatal unit and baby rooms.
That is so disrespectful and so unbelievably selfish and I cannot see how anyone can argue otherwise.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sparkle22 said:


> What is the point of having a bench/smoking shelter if no one uses it...?
> 
> You say there's no need to ban it out in the open but the smoke lingers a fair distance even if you can't see it or smell it ( although as a non smoker I can ALWAYS smell it a while after the smoker has left, I genuinely don't think smokers actually realise, or care, how long it lingers)
> 
> ...


I agree, but if there are smoking shelters and smokers are not using them, that is surely down to the security staff to make sure they do. In Florida the theme parks have smoking benches outside which are not clearly marked, but you can soon find out by lighting up elsewhere. Within second a security guard will pounce and direct you to the right place.

I know perfectly well that smoke can still be detectable long afterwards, but not all smokers will ignore the smoking areas. Of course if they are getting nasty looks and bossy comments, then they are more likely to dig their heels in and smoke wherever the hell they like.

It is like when your dog does his business and some interfering a*hole yells: I hope you are going to pick that up, before you've had a chance to do anything. You feel very tempted to leave it there. Well, at least I do. So if someone turns their nose up at a smoker, or tells him he can't smoke there before he has even lit up, then naturally he is going out of his way to be awkward. Well, I would.


----------



## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> I agree, but if there are smoking shelters and smokers are not using them, that is surely down to the security staff to make sure they do. In Florida the theme parks have smoking benches outside which are not clearly marked, but you can soon find out by lighting up elsewhere. Within second a security guard will pounce and direct you to the right place.
> 
> I know perfectly well that smoke can still be detectable long afterwards, but not all smokers will ignore the smoking areas. Of course if they are getting nasty looks and bossy comments, then they are more likely to dig their heels in and smoke wherever the hell they like.
> 
> It is like when your dog does his business and some interfering a*hole yells: I hope you are going to pick that up, before you've had a chance to do anything. You feel very tempted to leave it there. Well, at least I do. So if someone turns their nose up at a smoker, or tells him he can't smoke there before he has even lit up, then naturally he is going out of his way to be awkward. Well, I would.


I guess, but if the hospitals won't enforce it then what other choice do you have but to ban it outright?

No they won't, but I think a large proportion do, even hospital staff!
Or they do at my hospital anyway.

To be fair, I think people should be a little less touchy regarding looks and bossy comments, rightly or wrongly virtually everyone has done it to someone for something at some point in their lives.
If someone said that to me on a walk I would just say 'obviously' and pick it up, no big deal.

I used to get looks when my son was little and he would have a temper tantrum, It was maddening, I mean how many 1 or 2 year olds do you know that don't have tantrums  I could have retaliated but I just ignored them and my sons behaviour and carried on with my business because at the end of the day, IMO, they are mean, judgemental, moaney arse individuals and nothing I can do will change that.

Okay it's not really very nice to give or get 'the look' or a comment but it happens and you just have to get on with it, deliberately being awkward gets you nowhere and IMO, is a little juvenile.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> The thread title seems to give a clue to what this is about, it's not about someone's noisy children spoiling a bus journey, or your afternoon in the garden, it's not about binge drinking, or people taking drugs, or a neighbours dog eating a cat, all of which are very annoying to varying degrees. It's just one excuse after another. Smoking kills, hospitals and the people employed by hospitals are there to save lives, simples.


*But that is NOT strictly true is it? Smoking " can" kill. Not everyone that smokes dies from smoking.*


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sparkle22 said:


> I guess, but if the hospitals won't enforce it then what other choice do you have but to ban it outright?
> 
> No they won't, but I think a large proportion do, even hospital staff!
> Or they do at my hospital anyway.
> ...


But if people won't even go to the right area to light up, what makes you think they will take any notice of a ban? Far less likely I would have thought. When I smoked I was quite happy to go find a smoking area, but I would not have been happy to see there was nowhere I could smoke.

I'm afraid I cannot ignore people who tut and give looks or interfere, it is just not in my nature. If someone tells me what to do, I will go out of my way to do the opposite and make sure they see me doing it.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *But that is NOT strictly true is it? Smoking " can" kill. Not everyone that smokes dies from smoking.*


And not every entertainer who ever worked in a smoky nightclub got lung cancer. Only one as far as I know; haven't heard of any others at all, have you?

Lots of things kill, which is why I can't get greasy chips any more


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Knock them off the list and give their slot to someone else


Well there goes my chances of ever needing a transplant then.

Super


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> ok lets face it the smokers and non smokers aren't gonna agree
> 
> but what i would like to add is, dont assume that just cause you are considerate when you smoke that everyone else is.


Same as some non-smokers are considerate and some are not


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Just as a side note if you ask they will give you patches etc so you don't need to go outside.

I always do this.

LL

I don't think anything has instantly angered me for years like that comment.

I won't look at the thread any more so I'm afraid your flippant comments in return would go unread.

I shall now wait till after 2 for yet more blood results to see if I need to go back to hospital possibly leading to a transplant.

Consideration, you know, is an umbrella term.

I'm so if I'm over reacting but it's rare almost unheard of I'm so angry


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2013)

Royoyo said:


> But then it does work both ways, I think it's unfair how all smokers get tarred with the same brush (excuse the pun ). For the people who are considerate it's irritating when non smokers just assume that because we smoke we are people with no morals or something. That's why it just goes round and round in circles.
> Just look at this thread and the things that have been said about smokers apparently *we smell, we have yellow teeth, we have bad breath, we smoke outside entrances and around children and gang up around shops in big groups smoking, we are disgusting and some people even hate us because we smoke.
> 
> I don't think that's very fair. *
> ...


I don't think smokers have yellow teeth from smoking but chain smokers DO smell bad the smell is awfull especially when they try and cover it up with a deodrant o.0

Smokers who smoke a lot do have bad breath.

And if a smoker does smoke near the entrance the smoke does waft around.

Cigerett smell does float around near by and even after your done with your **** as you walk through buildings if smoked a lot then yes others can smell it even if you have become acustomed to it.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Flamingoes said:


> Just as a side note if you ask they will give you patches etc so you don't need to go outside.
> 
> I always do this.
> 
> ...


It all depends what you need transplanted, doesn't it? If you are a heavy smoker and still expect a lung transplant, then I would agree and I expect you would to. They don't give new livers to heavy drinkers either.

But obviously the NHS would be a lot better off without these awful people who bring it on themselves. People like:

Road traffic accident victims should not get treatment because they should have walked.

If they get hit by a bus crossing the road, well they should have taken their cars.

People who eat greasy chips (if they can find them) should never get treatment for clogged arteries.

People who wore stilletto heels and winklepickers in the fifties should not get treatment for their bunyons.

People who get pregnant should not get maternity treatment - they should have kept their knickers on.

I could go on, but you get my drift. Half the illnesses and accidents could have been avoided, but everyone likes to pick on the smoker. I have not had one since Jubilee day, but I will still defend other's right to smoke if they want to.

And a patch does not taste nearly so good as a filter tipped.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

For me it would be better if they did and make more sense, after all it is a place to promote and help people to full health.

I have to go to the hospital and have been admitted a few times for various things, if I need some air or I feel in a panic I cannot go outside (well I do and I have to) but I have an asthma attack when I go outside as I have awful asthma and cigarettes set it off. 

I'm sorry to smokers, but it's not clean air where there is smoke and it's not fair that peoples personal choice to smoke makes others ill.


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2013)

Oh come on... Lets face it, hospitals are full of people who didnt take care of themselves in some way or another, type II diabetics who couldnt stay away from sweets and ended up with amputations, heart disease patients who couldnt lay off the bacon and ended up with bi-pass surgery, daredevils who took one too many risks and ended up needing some bones patched together... I could go on and on. Why single out smokers? Because their second-hand smoke is offensive? Well, hate to break it to you, but just walking through the parking lot to get in to the hospital will fill your lungs with car exhaust and whatever other air pollutants are in your area. Smoke from cigarettes is just ONE of the many air pollutants, and probably not the worst one.

That said, I hate the smell of cigarette smoke, I hate seeing parents smoking around their babies, I think thats totally uncool considering what we do know about second-hand smoke. 
I would absolutely love it if fewer (or no) people smoked, mostly for their sake, not mine. But then, I would love it if more people exercised and ate right because I think so many people would feel so much better. 
But thats not my choice to make for others. And thats the whole thing, its not up to me, or anyone else to make choices for others no matter how noble the intent behind it.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> It all depends what you need transplanted, doesn't it? If you are a heavy smoker and still expect a lung transplant, then I would agree and I expect you would to. They don't give new livers to heavy drinkers either.
> 
> But obviously the NHS would be a lot better off without these awful people who bring it on themselves. People like:
> 
> ...


Some of those things.....

High heels are nowhere near as dangerous, lets be honest, I mean it's not the same as smoking the likes of poison.

Or getting hit by a bus, it's just not the same as poisoning your body everyday.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> I'm afraid I cannot ignore people who tut and give looks or interfere, it is just not in my nature. If someone tells me what to do, I will go out of my way to do the opposite and make sure they see me doing it.


Then lets hope nobody ever tells you not to poop in public!!:scared:

Still dont see why people are having trouble getting their heads round why its wrong to smoke on hospital grounds....it would be like taking a can of Stella to an AA meeting!


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> Then lets hope nobody ever tells you not to poop in public!!:scared:
> :


:thumbup::lol:


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Some of those things.....
> 
> High heels are nowhere near as dangerous, lets be honest, I mean it's not the same as smoking the likes of poison.
> 
> Or getting hit by a bus, it's just not the same as poisoning your body everyday.


That isn't the point really. The point I was trying to make was that you can distinguish people who deserve health care from those who do not. If a heavy smoker or drinker has paid into the system all their lives, who the hell has the right to tell them that they should be denied treatment? Everyone who is ill should get treatment, that is what the NHS was set up for.



catz4m8z said:


> *Then lets hope nobody ever tells you not to poop in public!!:scared:*
> 
> Still dont see why people are having trouble getting their heads round why its wrong to smoke on hospital grounds....it would be like taking a can of Stella to an AA meeting!


I could go to Delhi and do that, you know. Nobody would care as long as I didn't run over a cow.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Sparkle22 said:


> I guess, but if the hospitals won't enforce it then what other choice do you have but to ban it outright?


i ask again - if hospitals cant enforce a partial ban, why would anyone assume that they would have more luck enforcing a total ban?


----------



## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

wow this is still going on lol
lets face it, nothing us small people of the world say in this forum will have any impact on what the government decides to do


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

It would be easier if we just ban people who want to ban things :ihih:


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> That isn't the point really. The point I was trying to make was that you can distinguish people who deserve health care from those who do not. If a heavy smoker or drinker has paid into the system all their lives, who the hell has the right to tell them that they should be denied treatment? Everyone who is ill should get treatment, that is what the NHS was set up for.


No but you said anyone who brought it one themselves and then said someone who was run over by a bus, well those people didn't bring that on themselves.

But I do think people who bring it on themselves by smoking should be treated but up to a point, I don't think they should be able to get a fresh pair of lungs by transplant though.


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> No but you said anyone who brought it one themselves and then said someone who was run over by a bus, well those people didn't bring that on themselves.
> 
> But I do think people who bring it on themselves by smoking should be treated but up to a point, I don't think they should be able to get a fresh pair of lungs by transplant though.


Now I am a big anti smoker....it is one of my pet hates BUT to deny someone the chance of life? You could be denying someone of a dad..a mum....What if it was someone close to you? Would you still say that?


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> Now I am a big anti smoker....it is one of my pet hates BUT to deny someone the chance of life? You could be denying someone of a dad..a mum....What if it was someone close to you? Would you still say that?


Actually yes, I saw people close to me die of lung cancer and smoke related problems. My Grandfather and Great Grandfather.

I wouldn't want someone who chose to do that to their lungs to get a replacement above those who need them through no choice of their own.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> Actually yes, I saw people close to me die of lung cancer and smoke related problems. My Grandfather and Great Grandfather.
> 
> I wouldn't want someone who chose to do that to their lungs to get a replacement above those who need them through no choice of their own.


do you have evidence that a lung replacement for a smoker means that a non smoker will go without?
If there were enough replacement lungs to go around (there may or may not be for all i know), would you still begrudge a smoker a replacement lung and prefer to see them die?


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Actually yes, I saw people close to me die of lung cancer and smoke related problems. My Grandfather and Great Grandfather.
> 
> I wouldn't want someone who chose to do that to their lungs to get a replacement above those who need them through no choice of their own.


I agree there should be a priority system which no doubt there is anyway....but I also would not like to see a young child grow up without their Mummy because Mummy was denied a lung transplant.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

What you need to realise is that once you bring in that type of selective treatment the same would happen with any other "self-inflicted" condition


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> I agree there should be a priority system which no doubt there is anyway....but I also would not like to see a young child grow up without their Mummy because Mummy was denied a lung transplant.


I understand the emotional pull people use with a father or mother, the thing is smoking is a complete choice and maybe they should think of not wanting to die in such an awful way when they have children and continue to smoke.

But if there was more then enough lungs to go around and no one would ever die because a smoker got lungs and a non smoker with a lung condition didn't, then I wouldn't have anything against them getting lungs, providing they never smoked with the new lungs.


----------



## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

porps said:


> i ask again - if hospitals cant enforce a partial ban, why would anyone assume that they would have more luck enforcing a total ban?


I think it would be easier banning outright than only allowing in certain areas personally.
It may not be easy but does that mean you should just give up?

Where there is a will there is a way springs to mind.

If my son started binge drinking at 12, should I just not bother to try and stop him because the law isn't really enforced very well and there is a lot of peer pressure?

Just because something appears difficult to enforce doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try and enforce it IMO.


----------



## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

I agree with everything Emma violet has said.

The nhs is severely cash strapped and to actively partake in something that you know is bad for you and is highly highly likely to give you certain conditions then expect to be treated for said condition (which is expensive) when you unsurprisingly do develop it I think is unreasonable.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Sparkle22 said:


> I think it would be easier banning outright than only allowing in certain areas personally.
> It may not be easy but does that mean you should just give up?


If it's going to mean taking money out of the NHS for something that has no chance of success anyway and is completely unecessary- yes we should.


----------



## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

porps said:


> If it's going to mean taking money out of the NHS for something that has no chance of success anyway and is completely unecessary- yes we should.


Thinking it has no chance of success is very defeatist, you have no way of knowing if it work or not without trying it and as for it being unnecessary, that is 100% your opinion, not a fact.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> No but you said anyone who brought it one themselves and then said someone who was run over by a bus, well those people didn't bring that on themselves.
> 
> But I do think people who bring it on themselves by smoking should be treated but up to a point, I don't think they should be able to get a fresh pair of lungs by transplant though.


I was being sarastic about the bus though, and everything else on that list. I think you will find that smokers would not be given a lung transplant any more than alcoholics are allowed a liver transplant. That is how it should be. But I am old enough to remember when certain people were not treated because the medical profession deemed their lives not worth saving, like Down Syndrome children for instance. You had no chance of getting any lifesaving treatment for a Down child. Once we go back down the road of selective healing, we will be back there again.


----------



## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> I was being sarastic about the bus though, and everything else on that list. I think you will find that smokers would not be given a lung transplant any more than alcoholics are allowed a liver transplant. That is how it should be. But I am old enough to remember when certain people were not treated because the medical profession deemed their lives not worth saving, like Down Syndrome children for instance. You had no chance of getting any lifesaving treatment for a Down child. Once we go back down the road of selective healing, we will be back there again.


Hardly the poor child's fault they got Down syndrome, how awful 

I have to say, I don't, thank god! Think we will ever reach that stage again, people are much more informed now about disability, equality, rights etc.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sparkle22 said:


> Thinking it has no chance of success is very defeatist, you have no way of knowing if it work or not without trying it and as for it being unnecessary, that is 100% your opinion, not a fact.


I think you are right.

People thought the smoking ban in pubs and indoors would never work, however it works very well on the whole.

I would have thought it was a risk to let people smoke on the grounds of a hospital with all of the oxygen tanks and everything about.

I remember my Great Aunt used to smoke eighty a day and had her own tank and nearly blew herself up as she refused to not smoke with it!


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2013)

Smokers reckon their picked on but at the end of the day so are the morbidly obese many argue that an overweight person should be charged extra for taking a flight or public transport and their are some that even argue weather a morbidly obese person should recieve NHS treatment.
The same arguements apply to drug adicts and alchaholics their all picked on smokers are not special.


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I do think smoking on hospital grounds should be banned. Years ago you never had to pay to park at a hospital but now you do...and I should imagine a percentage goes to the hospital.
Perhaps the parking attendants could extend their duties to *** police and fine who they catch smoking. The fine would pay the *** police and maybe even raise some extra revenue for the hospital. Win..win!


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Sparkle22 said:


> Thinking it has no chance of success is very defeatist, you have no way of knowing if it work or not without trying it and as for it being unnecessary, that is 100% your opinion, not a fact.


i base my idea that it has no chance of success on the facts that - 
partial bans are not successful according to people in this thread
or
if partial bans are being succesful, there is no need for a full ban
and
If i was smoking in a banned area, there is no way to stop me. You couldnt fine me as you wouldnt have my details and i wouldnt give them to someone who was going to use them to fine me, thats just common sense.

As for it being necessary, thats 100% your opinion, not fact.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I think the funniest thing about this subject is that back in 1970 when I was in hospital having a miscarriage, the ward sister brought round ashtrays and we all smoked in bed. Anyone watch the Royal? That surgeon puffs away at his pipe while he is operating.

Talk about one extreme to another.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> I think the funniest thing about this subject is that back in 1970 when I was in hospital having a miscarriage, the ward sister brought round ashtrays and we all smoked in bed. Anyone watch the Royal? That surgeon puffs away at his pipe while he is operating.
> 
> Talk about one extreme to another.


and back in the 1880s we put cocaine in coca cola and hair tonics!
We are probably the dumbest species on the planet!!


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I think the funniest thing about this subject is that back in 1970 when I was in hospital having a miscarriage, the ward sister brought round ashtrays and we all smoked in bed. Anyone watch the Royal? That surgeon puffs away at his pipe while he is operating.
> 
> Talk about one extreme to another.


Yep, all of us of a certain age can remember when smoking was everywhere. And the costs in damages to health continued to rise, which is why now efforts are being made to reduce the harmful exposures.

The fines are affixed to the institution that is not enforcing the no smoking restrictions. To use the topic of this thread, if there is a no smoking within 50 feet of the hospital door way law (as it is in the state I live in), if it is not enforced, and someone complains, or someone is inspecting, it is that hospital which is fined, for allowing it to happen.

People who defiantly smoke in no smoking zones are simply being obnoxious on purpose. It is people like that what is wrong with this world. How is having a little courtesy going to hurt anyone? It might even make the world a little nicer. Life is so hard already, how can anyone object to that? Why must people go out of their way to be nasty? Ludicrous.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> and back in the 1880s we put cocaine in coca cola and hair tonics!
> We are probably the dumbest species on the planet!!


And don't forget that back then people used to eat arsenic because it was good for their complexion.

Point is that back in the fifties, smoking was good for you. It calmed your nerves and cleaned out your pipes when you had a cold. I just think it is funny that every time there is a thread about smoking it turns into a battle of some non smokers trying to impose their wills on the smokers.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> And don't forget that back then people used to eat arsenic because it was good for their complexion.
> 
> Point is that back in the fifties, smoking was good for you. It calmed your nerves and cleaned out your pipes when you had a cold. I just think it is funny that every time there is a thread about smoking it turns into a battle of some non smokers trying to impose their wills on the smokers.


poor you.


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> And don't forget that back then people used to eat arsenic because it was good for their complexion.
> 
> Point is that back in the fifties, smoking was good for you. It calmed your nerves and cleaned out your pipes when you had a cold. I just think it is funny that every time there is a thread about smoking it turns into a battle of some non smokers trying to impose their wills on the smokers.


Yeah but research has proven its anything but healthy. Even then experts could see the damage it did to ones health just watch the Kings Speach.

Aww poor smokers we should really feel sorry and give respect to people who effect someone elses health by smoking near them but it was done all those years ago so that makes it ok right?


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Prowl said:


> Yeah but research has proven its anything but healthy. Even then experts could see the damage it did to ones health just watch the Kings Speach.
> 
> Aww poor smokers we should really feel sorry and give respect to people who effect someone elses health by smoking near them but it was done all those years ago so that makes it ok right?


But don't we all deserve some respect? Whether you like it or not smoking is legal and there's nothing you can do about it 

Do I care that you don't like smoking? No.

Will I be respectful and non judgemental to non smokers? Yes, because I am not narrow minded and I know they don't all have their heads stuck up their own arses.

Now go have a nice smoke free Friday because this is just getting stupid now and we are never going to agree.


----------



## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Royoyo said:


> But don't we all deserve some respect? Whether you like it or not smoking is legal and there's nothing you can do about it
> 
> Do I care that you don't like smoking? No.
> 
> ...


I dont smoke but know plenty people who do and I agree we should all get along and not judge others. The only thing I do hate like I said was smokers smoking at the entrance of the maternity ward, so when new born babies come out they have to go through the cloud, I do however feel the hospitals should provide a smoking booth as I do get some people smoke more when nervous and they would be at this time.


----------



## conehead (Jun 16, 2010)

Each to their own. Im an ex smoker, but wouldn't dream of interfering in other people's right to smoke. Perhaps hospitals could build shelters ( some do ) away from the entrance, so people can smoke. It is legal after all. Vehicles pollute the air, are we going to ban these? I think we all need to be more tolerant of other people.

Banning things is not always the right way. If the government wants to stop people smoking, then why not double or treble the cost of a packet of cigarettes. 

Education is the way. Promote healthy living including exercise etc. A good start would be if shops were to lower the price of healthy foods, such as fruit and veg, and put up the price of junk food.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

So far increasing the cost of cigs hasn't had much effect. It costs $10 a pack here, including taxes, and that's the discount brands. You want an Old Gold or a Winston or a Newport, you're going to pay even more.

I am not arguing someone's "right" to smoke. I am arguing my "right" to walk through a doorway and remain unpolluted by second hand cigarette smoke. I don't care to smell like a smoker the remainder of the day, and when you walk through those clouds, you do.

And it poses very real risk to people who already suffer from breathing disorders.

All we are saying is having a little courtesy and smoke in the designated area, or create a designated area. And keep your butts off the ground. How hard IS that? Seriously.


----------



## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

Prowl said:


> Smokers reckon their picked on but at the end of the day so are the morbidly obese many argue that an overweight person should be charged extra for taking a flight or public transport and their are some that even argue weather a morbidly obese person should recieve NHS treatment.
> The same arguements apply to drug adicts and alchaholics their all picked on smokers are not special.


My cigarettes don't take up two seats on a plane!

I think what's really aggravating about this thread is all smokers are getting tarred with the same brush. I don't smoke in doorways, I don't blow smoke in peoples faces, if there's a person walking towards/behind me I will do all I can not to blow smoke near them, I don't drop cigarette butts (I have a stub pouch) etc etc.

But according to a lot here, I must be incredibly inconsiderate to every other human being on the planet just because I happen to smoke.


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2013)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> My cigarettes don't take up two seats on a plane!
> 
> *I think what's really aggravating about this thread is all smokers are getting tarred with the same brush*. I don't smoke in doorways, I don't blow smoke in peoples faces, if there's a person walking towards/behind me I will do all I can not to blow smoke near them, I don't drop cigarette butts (I have a stub pouch) etc etc.
> 
> But according to a lot here, I must be incredibly inconsiderate to every other human being on the planet just because I happen to smoke.


Um it isn't the smokers who feel picked on are saying that!
Probably because they can't justify their habbit which effects others.

Not all smokers hang out side hospital entrances but smoking should be banned from the ground of a hospital like someone said its a bit like going to an AA meeting with a few cans malibu and stellas.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> My cigarettes don't take up two seats on a plane!
> 
> I think what's really aggravating about this thread is all smokers are getting tarred with the same brush. I don't smoke in doorways, I don't blow smoke in peoples faces, if there's a person walking towards/behind me I will do all I can not to blow smoke near them, I don't drop cigarette butts (I have a stub pouch) etc etc.
> 
> But according to a lot here, I must be incredibly inconsiderate to every other human being on the planet just because I happen to smoke.


Really you've got the wrong impression. What we are complaining about are the ones who do. If you don't, then you aren't the one being complained about and have no reason to feel defensive. We are thankful there are smokers with your attitude. But we are faced with the other type on a daily basis.


----------



## Cinnebar (Nov 8, 2011)

I think smoking shelters at hospitals would get more use if they actually fulfilled the promise in their name 'shelter' They have recently opened a designated smoking area at our local hospital to stop patients from smoking under the entrance canopy.
The smoking area is about 12ft square and surrounded by wooden post and rail fencing to a height of about 6ft. Oh, and with 2 ashtrays fastened to the fence. No roof whatsoever and the boards on the fence cover about half it's area - boards and gaps are equal. Given the gentle Scottish breezes that howl off the North sea and the minus 17 winter temperatures you can see why they are not very inviting to someone wearing a dressing gown and slippers.
Our local village pub used to have 2 bars a smoking bar and a non-smoking bar. The landlord smoked and him and the patrons were very happy with the situation. This is not allowed any more and he has to retire outside to a gazebo like the rest of us. He can't understand why he isn't allowed to give his customers what they wanted. No customers were ever made to sit in the smoky bar if they didn't choose to. So who was it harming ?


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

lorilu said:


> Really you've got the wrong impression. What we are complaining about are the ones who do. If you don't, then you aren't the one being complained about and have no reason to feel defensive. We are thankful there are smokers with your attitude. But we are faced with the other type on a daily basis.


You are SO wrong OMG! EVERY single smoker on this thread has said that it shouldn't be allowed outside entrances and that smokers should have a place to go to smoke. What most of you non smokers are saying though is very judgmental and that we should only be allowed to smoke in our own homes or that tobacco should be banned from planet Earth!!!!

Seriously if you want me to sit in some fake bus stop to smoke my cig then I will, I don't have a problem with it, I really couldn't care less. It doesn't even make me the slightest bit angry or resentful.

It's like we do what you ask and you still have something to moan about.

Bore off.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Royoyo said:


> You are SO wrong OMG! *EVERY single smoker on this thread has said that it shouldn't be allowed outside entrances and that smokers should have a place to go to smoke.* What most of you non smokers are saying though is very judgmental and that we should only be allowed to smoke in our own homes or that tobacco should be banned from planet Earth!!!!
> 
> Seriously if you want me to sit in some fake bus stop to smoke my cig then I will, I don't have a problem with it, I really couldn't care less. It doesn't even make me the slightest bit angry or resentful.
> 
> ...


You sound both angry and resentful, LOL.

Actually quite a few have complained that their "rights" to smoke are being challenged by laws and designated smoking areas, better read the thread again. As i said, it's not the considerate ones we are on about. It's the ones who don't give a darn whether they cause anyone else distress or illness, and refuse to adhere to laws or regulations because of their so called "rights".

I am an ex smoker not a non smoker. But even when I did smoke I was of the apologetic sort who never smoked in public places, indoors or out, only my car or my own porch, which does not face anyone else's windows.. I didn't smoke inside my house either, because of my cats.

Thankfully somehow I found the strength to quit 14 years ago. I missed it and craved it for 7 years and then suddenly the cravings just left, for good.


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

lorilu said:


> You sound both angry and resentful, LOL.
> 
> Actually quite a few have complained that their "rights" to smoke are being challenged by laws and designated smoking areas, better read the thread again. As i said, it's not the considerate ones we are on about. It's the ones who don't give a darn whether they cause anyone else distress or illness, and refuse to adhere to laws or regulations because of their so called "rights".
> 
> ...


Perhaps YOU should read the thread again because you clearly didn't give any consideration to the smokers who are considerate. Being an ex smoker yourself you should know how hard it is to quit. You liked S&L's post, where she says she HATES smokers apparently.

I could multi-quote you but I cba.

So thanks for that, I don't hate you .


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

I do know how difficult it is to quit. I cried every day for months. I felt like I'd lost my best friend. I dreamed about smoking and craved it and was jealous of every smoker I saw for 7 years. Then it all went away.

However for the 26 years I did smoke, at least once I became an adult with a civic awareness, I did not flaunt my habit or force my smoke down other people's throats. I didn't smoke in public at all. As a teen I hid it because I wasn't allowed to smoke, as an adult I hid it because I was embarrassed to expose others to it.

The other day I saw a young mother standing on a street corner holding on to a toddler's arm, with a cigarette in the hand that was holding the child, because the other hand was holding and texting on a phone. The kid was trying to get his face away from the smoke and the mother kept yanking on the kid, and snarling at him to "cut it out".

Those are the types we are railing against.

Before the law was passed, every time I went to the grocery store I had to walk through a wall of smoke, because all the employees in the store stood right outside smoking. Even after a smoking shelter was built 50 feet from the door, they were still standing there. I expect it took a fine before the store manager started enforcing the employees use the shelter. My complaints alone didn't seem to do any good. 

Those are the people we are talking about.

Some years ago I had to have surgery, and I was very ill leading up to it. I had to go to the hospital for my pre-op blood work. Ill as I was, I had to walk through a throng of smokers to get into the hospital. The smoke clung to me, the smell causing even more illness, including vomiting. I complained at the information desk and the volunteer said she couldn't do anything. I complained to the clerk taking my registration. I complained to the tech taking my blood. After I healed from my surgery I complained with a letter to the Hospital board of directors and a letter to the newspaper editorial page. This was before the law was passed in 2008.

These are the situations we want eliminated.

Working in Human Services, with the special needs population, I picked up a young woman from her sheltered work shop every afternoon. To get into the building I had to walk through a crowd of smokers (staff and consumers alike). Every afternoon. I then smelled like a smoker for the remainder of the day. I complained but nothing was done. After the law about no smoking within 50 feet of public buildings passed, I complained more assertively and a smoking area was set up across the parking lot. I did not keep it a secret that I was the one complaining (perhaps others were too, who knows). I received dirty looks from two young women staff members every day after that, for years I was getting those dirty looks, until I recently left that job.

Those are the attitudes we object to.


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

lorilu said:


> I do know how difficult it is to quit. I cried every day for months. I felt like I'd lost my best friend. I dreamed about smoking and craved it and was jealous of every smoker I saw for 7 years. Then it all went away.
> 
> However for the 26 years I did smoke, at least once I became an adult with a civic awareness, I did not flaunt my habit or force my smoke down other people's throats. I didn't smoke in public at all. As a teen I hid it because I wasn't allowed to smoke, as an adult I hid it because I was embarrassed to expose others to it.
> 
> ...


I agree and that's fair enough that those type of smokers would annoy you but your words were something along the lines of we're only talking about the inconsiderate smokers, well no you aren't. Whilst you tar them all with the same brush you're also tarring me and I don't like that.

Don't come and call me disgusting and agree with people when they say they hate smokers and expect me to see your point of view.


----------



## Guest (Nov 30, 2013)

Royoyo said:


> I agree and that's fair enough that those type of smokers would annoy you but your words were something along the lines of we're only talking about the inconsiderate smokers, well no you aren't. Whilst you tar them all with the same brush you're also tarring me and I don't like that.
> 
> Don't come and call me disgusting and agree with people when they say they hate smokers and expect me to see your point of view.


We ARE infact talking about the ones who are ARE inconsiderate who are ruining it for everyone else.

You havent read the thread because your just tarring us with one brush. STILL


----------



## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Prowl said:


> Because smoking is bad for your health??


So is excess alcohol and eating . And what about hospital staff you never seen nurses cleaners smoking I have.


----------

