# My fiancé is pregnant and I want my cat to start going toilet outside. Help please



## Lunalad76 (Jan 9, 2013)

Hi everyone,
I'm hoping somebody could give me some good advice please.
Me and my fiancé have a 1&a half year old female cat called Jinx,who lately in the last few months has become solely a indoor cat and doesn't like to go outside at all anymore. She has a litter tray and always has done (much to my disapproval,as growing up all the family cats my parents had always went outside)
Anyway,up until a few months ago jinny would regularly want to go outside,always at funny times though like 11pm at night! 
And then suddenly she stopped,maybe for one of two reasons....the big stray male cat that my neighbour always feeds! Or maybe cause when she wouldn't come in one night at around 12.30am she got shut out for the night!

Well my big problem now is,my fiancé is pregnant,and we've read that her changing the cat litter can be quite dangerous as there's some kind of disease it carries?
Of course the easy way around this is for me to change it instead,but I have a major issue with the litter tray being in the house when we have a baby.
We have a very small 2 bed house,and the only place to keep the tray is in the kitchen! Which even though its one with a lid,I still feel its totally un-hygienic!
Sometimes there's a little bit of toilet outside the tray that she's obviously dragged out with the litter,and I just can't have a baby with that in the house.

My other concern is that jinx goes on mad little benders around the house,we have plenty of toys and things,but she's a very hyper cat at times! And again because of the very small house we have,I just think it's going to be a nightmare when the baby is here as well.

So my plan is for her to start going outside to play,but also for her to go toilet outside as well.
I've tried the last few days taking the tray away and putting it outside,but she won't do anything but meow and meow if I put her outside,if I stay out with her she'll have a little sniff around and eat some grass,but the minute I go inside she meows constantly at the door!
So I definitely think she's been spooked somehow?

Please don't think I am now abandoning my cat now we've a baby on the way,I love jinx she's a great cat,but obviously I have to put the health of a baby first,and I really do feel it will do jinx some good as well exploring the outside.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Paul


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## izzyc (Dec 18, 2011)

The disease you're thinking of is toxoplasmosis. It's very, very unlikely that your fiance will get it from cat litter though - statistically she's more likely to catch it from handling raw meat!! CP have a leaflet about it: Cats Protection: Cat Care: Toxoplasmosis

About your cat - You could try spreading some litter outside where you want your cat to go, it may encourage her.

Do you play with your cat outside? She may be scared now but if you distract her with toys and keep her company while she's out she may come to associate the outdoors with playtime.

That said, if she is genuinely frightened of being outside and can't adjust with time it would be highly stressful to her to force her to go outside.

Until the baby is crawling and getting around independently it won't be able to chase the cat or mess with the litter anyway.


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## Hannahmourneevans (Dec 16, 2012)

Agreed with the previous post. You need to get your cat used to being outside before she will feel comfortable to toilet out there x


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

How about you clean out the litter tray and save your lovely fiancé the job? That way your old cat isn't forced to go outside to toilet when she obviously wants to stay inside. The risks are very minimal anyway, and if your fiancé does need to change the tray as long as she doesn't lick her fingers before washing them she isn't going to get the disease. I've had 3 pregnancies all with cats in the house, my hubby just did the trays for me when he was in or I did them and washed my hands very well afterwards.

It is very easy to bring up a child to not eat cat poo and litter. You mention she occasionally drags a bit of litter and poo outside of the tray - it is very easy to clean that up. You baby isn't going to be in the kitchen unsupervised for at least 3 years anyway- use a stair gate to keep the baby away from the area when you aren't able to supervise! (not that you should ever be in that position). 

If you protect your child too much from germs etc (not talking cat poo here) your child is much more likely to end up with asthma, exema and allergies. I know of at least three children who were kept so clean and the house so immaculate that when they finally caught a cold at the ages of around three they nearly died of it - from a common cold! They were in hospital for weeks.

My son once managed to wee in his own mouth whilst having his nappy changed! It was hilarious!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Sorry, but it sounds to me like you're pushing your cat away because of the baby, and that's one step away from abandonment. You know she's spooked outside, so why are you forcing her to go out there to face: Being beaten up and injured by other cats, being poisoned, run over, lost, trapped, hurt by humans, chased by dogs, be a pest to other neighbours when she toilets in their gardens? I'd say you had it good if she wants to stay in!

In terms of the litter tray, I'm sorry, but when you took on the cat, you took on the possibility of one, so you really need to just deal with it, and be thankful she doesn't insist on 2, as many cats do, or that she doesn't toilet inappropriately when you remove it, as many would. That being said, I wouldn't keep mine in the kitchen either. Couldn't it go in a bathroom or bedroom?

What's wrong with teaching your baby to leave the tray alone, just as you would teach them not to play with glass things etc? You could baby gate off that room so that they cna't crawl to the tray.

In terms of your fiance catching Toxaplasmosis, this will only happen under certain circumstances:
1. If poo is left in the tray for 48 yhours (I'd like to think this wouldn't happen regularly).
2. If she cleans the tray, then doesn't wash her hands and ingests the disease.

So you can see, with very basic hygiene precautions, the TP risk is, well, not a risk!


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Did you say she was 18 years old? At this age she is very very vulnerable and really should not be going outside, especially if she doesn not want to. Cats generally want to venture outside less and less during their twilight years. She will not be as quick and agile as she once was.

Please let your old cat live out her remaining years feeling safe and secure.


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## AvaRags (Jan 5, 2013)

It is natural that your are worried, especially with a baby on the way but I have survived 2 babies with 3 cats. Litter trays is an easy one, I am sure you wouldn't mind being litter tray monitor for a while or I used to wear a pair of washing up gloves to do the litter trays, they can easily be sprayed with detox or bleach solution to keep them clean when not in use.
We have a enclosed corner litter tray in the bathroom, I prefer it in there, seems more hygenic to me but have you thought of experimenting with different types of litter, the wood pellets tend to stay in the enclosed (with door) litter tray.
As for baby being on the move and being around the cat, my girls survived and millions of other children did to, including me  there are also many more hidden dangers in the house (stairs, kitchen, plug sockets, door hinges, steps, sharp corners on tables blah blah blah), the cat and the litter tray will be the least of your worries. :biggrin5:

PS Welcome to parenthood and if you think this is bad, what until you have teenagers in the house :001_rolleyes:


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Lunalad76 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I'm hoping somebody could give me some good advice please.
> Me and my fiancé have a 1&a half year old female cat called Jinx,who lately in the last few months has become solely a indoor cat and doesn't like to go outside at all anymore. She has a litter tray and always has done (much to my disapproval,as growing up all the family cats my parents had always went outside)
> Anyway,up until a few months ago jinny would regularly want to go outside,always at funny times though like 11pm at night!
> ...


Sorry Paul but I find your post very upsetting.

Cats are not toys and cannot be manipulated as you wish, she has made it clear she does not like being outside and you continuing to force her is cruel and unfair. So what if your family cats didn't have litter trays? Cats are as individual as people. It doesn't sound as though she has been spooked, it sounds as though she doesn't like being outside. End of.

The risk of toxaplasmosis from changing litter trays is incredibly low if you practice good hygiene. If you're so worried about your partner then the simple and obvious solution is for you to take care of litter tray duties.

Your baby won't be up and crawling around for a long time yet, and in the meantime you can relocate your litter tray, try a different type, try different litter trays and much more to minimise any tracking.

Jinx's mad half hours are unlikely to interrupt the baby. Most animals are surprisingly gentle and aware around small children.

Tbh it sounds very close to abandonment. Ultimately you took Jinx on, presumably expecting to have children in her lifetime, and her care is no less of a priority just because you have a LO on the way.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2013)

I am a single mum and had nobody to change the cats litter trays for me so what I did was buy disposable rubber gloves at the chemists and did it myself and washed my hands afterwards too. I do understand about having a cat litter tray and a crawling baby indoors but my dad made a hole in the understairs cupboard and put a little plank in there with a cat flap on the other side with 2 medium/large dog crates so they could not escape and both have padlocks on and the litter tray went in there and also it allowed them to have fresh air if they wanted to as well. I have no back door so had to do it that way but if I had a back door would have built something bigger and nicer for them but I live in a 1 bedroom house. Giving up my cats was never an option for me. I did have a couple of accidents with Eric until he worked it out but that was all. Kizzy got it straight away. I now have to get the other 2 used to it but do have a litter tray indoors at the moment but my daughter now understands not to go near it and has shown no interest in it apart from telling me when they have done a poo! There are things you can do so there is no need to rehome your cat.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

I think you may be overly worrying about this as a new parent. It's understandable but please don't force your cat outside. You are lucky that the cat is a homely sort - it will probably be as territorial & careful about the baby as you when it arrives. With all the necessary precautions (type of litter; covered tray; you changing; hand hygiene; keeping cat out of baby room etc) your fiancee and baby will be fine.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Ang2 said:


> Did you say she was 18 years old? At this age she is very very vulnerable and really should not be going outside, especially if she doesn not want to. Cats generally want to venture outside less and less during their twilight years. She will not be as quick and agile as she once was.
> 
> Please let your old cat live out her remaining years feeling safe and secure.


I think it is meant to say 1 & a half year old.... IF it was 18 by time babies born and crawling the cat would have probably gone, problem solved :glare:

I had two babies around my cats, never did they come in contact with the cats toileting, careful management of the cats, supervision of the babies/children, and good hygiene for me were the very simple answers.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

What about something like this so that the litter tray can be outside?

Cat Pen Allows Your Cat To Go Out With Out Wandering Off | eBay


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2013)

Before I became pregnant Kizzy did not sit on my lap often but during my pregnancy she sat on it all the time, she obviously knew. They were not keen on the crying but just adjusted. I remember once my daughter grabbed hold of Eric's cheeks I was in the same room but turned my back for a minute I took her off and he just walked off no hissing or anything. This was an isolated incident. Kizzy has hissed at her a few times but that is it. We all live happily together.


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

I see no harm encouraging her to go out. 

I cant stand having a litter tray in the house :frown2: absolutely vile (in my opinion), but necessary until my kitten is older and able to go out for toilet time with our other cat.

(she might even like to be out exploring when/if she overcomes her fear)  try putting litter out in the garden and playing with her outside. :crazy:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

First post and a contentious one again - I've had my say now I'm waiting to put the popcorn on.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I've grown up with cats from day 1 and not done me any harm. Just do sensible precautions like wear gloves if she has to clean litter tray or you can do it? I have a cellar so I have the two litter trays down there, or you can try putting a covered litter tray outside?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I was pregnant and had a toddler running around the house and i still fostered for cpl, at one point i had 23 kittens in the home, so im sure if i can manage to foster all these in the circumstances you can surely manage one cat.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Lunalad76 said:


> So my plan is for her to start going outside to play,
> 
> Paul


Cats aren't children you can't put them outside to play. 

What I really want to write - I can't


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I would suggest training the cat, gradually, to use the litter tray outside the back door. It will take a bit of work and dedication from you because she is used to having it available all the time, but I am sure it can be done.

As she is used to being indoors all the time, I would not suddenly start shutting her out, but encourage her out for toiletting and a bit of play with you and some cat toys, but let her choose to stay indoors if she wishes. There will be accidents, but I think that is inevitable as it's a bit like going back to kitten training. 

I would not shut my cat out at night. You would need to bring the litter tray in at night, but place it outside again in the morning.

This way, there is no reason for the baby and litter tray to ever meet! 

Obviously, normal standards of cleanliness need to be used when handling the litter tray and cat waste, but it doesn't need to be a drama. 

Good luck and if you start working on it now things can hopefully be sorted by the time the baby is born.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Mine go out through the cat flap but only cause they want to and they're still youngish at 2 and 5 years old. 18 is getting on a bit for a cat.


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## Jet90 (Dec 5, 2011)

i've always cleaned litter trays whether pregnant or with a newborn, toddler, and older..... never been one single illness or problem. 

if you truly cant ....well, wont.... clean the tray yourself, then your fiance needs to wear long cleaning gloves when she cleans the tray, scoop poop out whenever it is done.....

(my ex never cleaned or scrubbed or emptied the trays of my cats, but even he would stick a scoop in the litter and get the poop out whenever he saw it.)

and she will be fine. 


as for forcing the cat to toilet outside when she is clearly scared to go out for whatever reason..... to be blunt, i think that is just plain cruel. 


worrying about baby crawling or sticking hands in litter or poop - it really is as simple as supervising baby at all times when out of cot/buggy/chair, which should be done anyway regardless of cats, litter, or whatever.


x


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> > I think it is meant to say 1 & a half year old....
> 
> 
> I agree -- I too read it as 1.5 years old (18 mths i.e.). Fairly unlikely an 18 y/old cat would be charging madly about the house


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Posts like this just made me go :nonod: :nonod:

Fair enough OP, your cats growing up always went outside. But not all cats like the outdoors, it's unfair to force her when she clearly has no interest.

As for the mad half hour, all cats have them. If the baby's asleep, shut the door, turn on the baby monitor and block up the stairs with cardboard through the stair gate and the banister supports and keep your cat's mad half hours confined to downstairs!

I find this thread really quite upsetting, as it seems like if things don't go "your way", you will rehome this poor little cat because it doesn't conform to what you expect from it. If you wanted an animal that did as it was told, you should've got a dog.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

I see this far too often and it's my pet hate (pun intended!) :mad2:

Why is your cat any less important now you've got a baby on the way? To shun her and make her go out (frankly it sounds like you'll be forcing her to , given that she doesn't like going out) is completely unjustified.

Just suck up and deal with it. Wear some gloves, if you must. It's really not difficult :001_rolleyes:


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

You can never force a cat to do anything, you should know this by now 

I have/had indoor/outdoor cats and every single one always comes in to use the toilet!


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

This makes me  The op says he doesnt want his GF dealing with it but wouldnt mind if his cat was outside pooping in the local kiddies sand pit...

This is an excuse .. My son has two indoor cats , he now also has two children the cats came first, then the wife, then the kids, each time it was the newcomers who adapted...No one ever got sick , the cats use the litter box which is kept away from the children and during pregnancy my son cleaned the litter tray .Simple.


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## monkeymummy32 (May 22, 2012)

Like many others on here, I have survived pregnancy with no illness or diseases due to cleaning the litter tray. My husband was very good though and does the majority of the litter tray duties (always has), but when I did have to clean the tray I just wore some rubber gloves and then washed my hands afterwards, just in case. 

With regard to having the litter tray in the kitchen - there are many more hazards in a kitchen than a litter tray....chemicals, knives, hot appliances...so you should be either keeping your child out of the kitchen at all times anyway (maybe using a stair gate?) OR you should be watching your child at all times whilst in, probably, the most dangerous room of the house. I can understand why you might not want a litter tray in the kitchen - in our last house we had it in the kitchen because we had no-where else to put it, such is life. When we moved we could put it somewhere different. I'm pretty sure it's not going to kill anyone by having it there - you just have to have good hygiene rules which you should be doing anyway when baby comes along.

Cats have mad half hours, mine did and still do - no harm ever came to my child. You've just got to be vigilent, as always when you have a baby.
Cats can have mad half hours whenever they feel like it so would you want to keep the cat outside all the time 'just in case' it has a mad half hour? 

I think you're probably worrying unnecessarily, and to some degree I can understand your worries so maybe just see how you get on before making any drastic decisions that may affect the wellbeing of your cat (mentally as well as physically).


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Yep me too my last pregnancy i had to change about 10 trays every two days.I used disposable gloves.baby was fine


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## CAPA7 (Jun 23, 2012)

I am sure, as a future new parent, you want to make sure your baby will 100% safe, which is the way it should be.
However, before deciding to have a chid, you took on the *responsibility* to have a cat. Granted, your baby will now probably be more important to you, but you still have that responsibility to your cat - when they say a pet is for life, they mean it!
I think that trying to force her out is cruel. You are lucky that she enjoys being an indoor cat, she is a lot safer that way. Just shutting her out will scare her and might cause behavioural problems if she ends up not trusting you any longer.
As for the litter tray, well, I honestly think the solution is simple: why not do this small task to help your fiance out during her pregnancy? Surely you wouldn't want her kneeling on the floor, risking hurting her back, while she is pregnant anyway? 
And regarding when your child is older, like others have said, s/he will be supervised at all times, right? So there is no chance of them messing with cat poo.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

SammyJo said:


> I see no harm encouraging her to go out.
> 
> I cant stand having a litter tray in the house :frown2: absolutely vile (in my opinion), but necessary until my kitten is older and able to go out for toilet time with our other cat.
> 
> :


you certainly wouldn't like my house then. i have litter trays everwhere. with 14 cats - all indoors due to acts of cruelty from neighbours (btw i only had about 5 at the time and they didn't all go out) litter trays are an essential part of caring for them


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

So basically because you're too lazy to clean out a litter tray to help your pregnant fiance an elderly cat is going to be thrown outside to fend for itself. Look at the numerous threads on here of young, fit, healthy cats being killed because their owners decided they had to run free and ask yourself can you do that to a cat that has been a part of your family for so long


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Nicky10 said:


> So basically because you're too lazy to clean out a litter tray to help your pregnant fiance an elderly cat is going to thrown outside to fend for itself. Look at the numerous threads on here of young, fit, healthy cats being killed because their owners decided they had to run free and ask yourself *can you do that to a cat that has been a part of your family for so long*


Twud appear so :nonod:


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## monkeymummy32 (May 22, 2012)

Nicky10 said:


> So basically because you're too lazy to clean out a litter tray to help your pregnant fiancean elderly cat is going to thrown outside to fend for itself. Look at the numerous threads on here of young, fit, healthy cats being killed because their owners decided they had to run free and ask yourself can you do that to a cat that has been a part of your family for so long


You've probably done what I initially did - read the age as 18 and a half! I think the cat is 1 and a half (written as 1& a half) - still doesn't mean it's right for the owners to force the poor cat outside if it doesn't want to go out though :


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Yes I had  but still its too much of a risk to the cat to throw it outside just because you can't be bothered cleaning a litter tray. Especially if it doesn't want to go out


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

As a child I had our moggy sleep on my cot whenever I was in there...and I turned out fine


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2013)

Flamingoes said:


> As a child I had our moggy sleep on my cot whenever I was in there...and I turned out fine


Sorry but I certainly would not recommend this.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

well as long as the cat doesn't scratch or actually sit on the baby why should it matter? My dad probably did this frequently with me


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2013)

Wiz201 said:


> well as long as the cat doesn't scratch or actually sit on the baby why should it matter? My dad probably did this frequently with me


I am not talking about this kind of thing or even when the cot is in view of an adult just in case the cat sleeps on the baby's face and suffocates it. I just don't think it is wise to leave a bedroom door open in case the cat does sit on the baby's face while it sleeps. These are just my personal views and are not meant to lead to arguments or disagreements.


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## Cosmo Curry (Dec 27, 2012)

Lunalad76 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I'm hoping somebody could give me some good advice please.
> 
> Please don't think I am now abandoning my cat now we've a baby on the way,I love jinx she's a great cat,but obviously I have to put the health of a baby first,and I really do feel it will do jinx some good as well exploring the outside.
> ...





spid said:


> First post and a contentious one again - I've had my say now I'm waiting to put the popcorn on.





Cookieandme said:


> Cats aren't children you can't put them outside to play.
> 
> What I really want to write - I can't





RabbitMonster said:


> Posts like this just made me go :nonod: :nonod:
> 
> Fair enough OP, your cats growing up always went outside. But not all cats like the outdoors, it's unfair to force her when she clearly has no interest.
> 
> ...





JordanRose said:


> I see this far too often and it's my pet hate (pun intended!) :mad2:
> 
> Why is your cat any less important now you've got a baby on the way? To shun her and make her go out (frankly it sounds like you'll be forcing her to , given that she doesn't like going out) is completely unjustified.
> 
> Just suck up and deal with it. Wear some gloves, if you must. It's really not difficult :001_rolleyes:





dorrit said:


> This makes me  The op says he doesnt want his GF dealing with it but wouldnt mind if his cat was outside pooping in the local kiddies sand pit...
> 
> This is an excuse .. My son has two indoor cats , he now also has two children the cats came first, then the wife, then the kids, each time it was the newcomers who adapted...No one ever got sick , the cats use the litter box which is kept away from the children and during pregnancy my son cleaned the litter tray .Simple.





Nicky10 said:


> So basically because you're too lazy to clean out a litter tray to help your pregnant fiance an elderly cat is going to be thrown outside to fend for itself. Look at the numerous threads on here of young, fit, healthy cats being killed because their owners decided they had to run free and ask yourself can you do that to a cat that has been a part of your family for so long





Flamingoes said:


> Twud appear so :nonod:





Nicky10 said:


> Yes I had  but still its too much of a risk to the cat to throw it outside just because you can't be bothered cleaning a litter tray. Especially if it doesn't want to go out





Flamingoes said:


> As a child I had our moggy sleep on my cot whenever I was in there...and I turned out fine


What is one to think about this forum and the people that write this sort of stuff? Do you think anything positive will come from your replies for either the OP or his cat?

Do you think the OP will bother to come back and engage with people with tones and attitudes like this?

Ive seen more civility and less hostility and nastiness on a political forum!

Moggies sleeping on cots? You need to do serious research on this. This is very ill advised and potentially lethal.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I think you will find a lot of good advise was given too - but then to OP didn't come back. Without someone coming back and clarifying what they mean - whether the cat was 18 or 1 for example - people tend to go off on a different tack. I answered right at the beginning too and nicely and no response. Maybe once you have been here longer you will see how often we get these contentious posts thrown in and then OP never posts again. Just sits back and watches the mayhem they cause.


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

Well sorry but isnt that the crux of it..He doesnt want his GF dealing with [email protected] but he isnt voluteering, hes worried about his child but not other peoples children who may be affected by his cat poeping outside on play areas, gardens ect ..

Isnt this just typical of all too many pet owners now days who want the animal just as long as it doesnt get in the way, cost them money, time, or effort..

Just like the neighbours cat that Ive paid the vet bills for while he swans off for a weekend away leaving one cat in the care of another neighbour who is dealing with the post op care and his other cat outside in the freezing cold...


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Cosmo Curry said:


> What is one to think about this forum and the people that write this sort of stuff? Do you think anything positive will come from your replies for either the OP or his cat?
> 
> Do you think the OP will bother to come back and engage with people with tones and attitudes like this?
> 
> ...


It doesn't seem like you've been around here much Cosmo Curry. As Spid said, we regularly get posts like this, and after a while it does get very upsetting. Should we be accepting of the fact that yet another person wants to get rid of their feline when a child comes into the home?

Too many animals are rehomed for 'reasons' like this (excuses more like!!). As animal lovers, should we condone this sort of behaviour, and give this person a pat on the back, when they're clearly forcing their cat into something she has no desire to do (i.e. go outside), all because they can't be bothered to get off their backside and clean a litter tray, and suitably parent their child?


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

Firstly congratulations to you and your fiancé.

I am currently 24weeks pregnant and whilst my husband does change the litter tray most of the time, there are occasions when he isn't around and I want it clean for the cats. As soon as I knew I was pregnant I got a box of disposable gloves from Amazon (around £5 for a box of 100) . I use these when I clean the tray and then wash my hands thoroughly afterwards. The risk of toxoplasmosis is pretty low as I am probably a carrier anyway, but I take the precaution regardless.

If your cat is not happy going outside, forcing her too could cause more stress and she may start soiling outside her box. Personally I would leave her to use the indoor box, which I think is think is more responsible as at least you know your cat is not causing mess in other people's gardens.

I have had many young children come to visit when we lived in a two bed flat (the litter tray was in the bathroom) and never once with a covered litter tray did the children want to go near it, especially when they were told it was a toilet with poo in it  Younger children simply were not left unsupervised anyway. 

Never leave the cat alone with the baby, but as someone who grew up with a kitten, cat and baby learn to form a loving relationship under the guidance of the parents. I am pretty sure your cat will settle around the baby or possibly avoid the baby due to the noise.

As much as I love my Furbies, I wouldn't leave them unattended with the newborn baby, especially as I know Oscar loves sleeping in confined spaces so the Moses basket would be heaven for him. That is my responsibility though as I can't expect Oscar to understand that straight away. Maybe when he hears the crying baby inside it, it may put him off! 

Please do voice your concerns, as I am sure most of us will be able to put your mind at ease around pets and children, which when handled correctly is one of the most rewarding things to observe and be part of.


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## Cosmo Curry (Dec 27, 2012)

Lumboo, finally someone that has the ability to read and understand the original posters concerns and respond with some wisdom, reasurance and compassion.

Good for you. Its goes a little way in counteracting some of those who have mindlessly joined the which hunt and gone out of their way to over react with anger and down right nastiness. Most decent people wouldnt tolerate these types in real life let alone on an internet forum. 

Its a pity that even now people are still attacking the OP and even continuing to justify their appalling attitudes. 

If this thread is a reflection of the social types that inhabit this forum I'd be surprised if many decent folks ever stick around for very long. 

One thing seems certain the OP has left in dismay at what hes found here. What reasonable person could blame him!


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

If you are going to ask on a public forum what others think then you should be prepared for their views, i dont think this thread has become nasty, its peoples views.
What did the op expect when the cat clearly doesnt want to go outside, people to just say chuck it out and shut the door, the cat doesnt wish to be outside and quite honestly in this cold weather i dont blame it. Maybe when the weather warms up the cat may want to explore the outside but until then all the OH has to do is change a litter tray, if they cant do this how are they going to cope with changing nappies.
Too many people dump pets for what i think are petty excuses, put on a pair of gloves and get on with it, most people wish to start a family at some point so if they are not prepared to take care of the pets already owned then either dont get that pet in the first place or dont have children, its that simple.
Advise has been given and sometimes people only join a forum to get advise then leave, not everybody wishes to stay.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Cosmo Curry said:


> What is one to think about this forum and the people that write this sort of stuff? Do you think anything positive will come from your replies for either the OP or his cat?
> 
> Do you think the OP will bother to come back and engage with people with tones and attitudes like this?
> 
> ...





Cosmo Curry said:


> Lumboo, finally someone that has the ability to read and understand the original posters concerns and respond with some wisdom, reasurance and compassion.
> 
> Good for you. Its goes a little way in counteracting some of those who have mindlessly joined the which hunt and gone out of their way to over react with anger and down right nastiness. Most decent people wouldnt tolerate these types in real life let alone on an internet forum.
> 
> ...


Prepare to be surprised Cosmo, because there are far more decent folk than not who regularly inhabited this forum. The main factor with regular members is that we most of us think our pets are of equal importance to any other living creature, and that includes children.

When someone comes along wanting to force a scared cat outside because they don't want to be cleaning litter trays, we are naturally going to get a bit niggly.


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2013)

Cosmo Curry said:


> Lumboo, finally someone that has the ability to read and understand the original posters concerns and respond with some wisdom, reasurance and compassion.
> 
> Good for you. Its goes a little way in counteracting some of those who have mindlessly joined the which hunt and gone out of their way to over react with anger and down right nastiness. Most decent people wouldnt tolerate these types in real life let alone on an internet forum.
> 
> ...


If you look at other posts at the beginning of the thread what Lumboo typed had already basically been said a few times already.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Cosmo Curry said:


> Lumboo, finally someone that has the ability to read and understand the original posters concerns and respond with some wisdom, reasurance and compassion.
> 
> Good for you. Its goes a little way in counteracting some of those who have mindlessly joined the which hunt and gone out of their way to over react with anger and down right nastiness. Most decent people wouldnt tolerate these types in real life let alone on an internet forum.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming that bit is aimed at me, as I came on and countered your 'dig' - *but have you actually read the first page*? Or did you jump in half way?I'd like to know where my first post's attitude, one of the very first, is 'appalling' considering it gave decent advice. Yes, I then mentioned popcorn (my next post) but by that time the OP hadn't been back for a good few pages, and I was beginning to get the feeling this was the normal contentious first post that causes EXACTLY these types of problems. If you have an issue with what is said so be it, but maybe read ALL of it first.

Did you not find my wee anecdote amusing?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Cosmo, are you going out of your way to be inflammatory?

Please don't insult people that you don't know much about because we think our pets deserve as much consideration as a human. I'm not going to justify what I wrote, because I don't feel that I need to justify feeling that my pet is as important as any other member of my family, and deserves not to be effectively locked out of their home and denied their basic needs of a safe place to toilet. I don't feel the need to justify what I see as good animal husbandry and good parenting. Just as I tell my cats off ffor jumping on things they're not allowed on, I would tell my child off for going prospecting in a litter tray. Just as I would give my child all the love and consideration I could, and adapt their environment so that they feel safe and secure, I will extend the same to my cat. Cats and kids can co-exist quite happily without one being pushed out unnecessarily.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

There has been alot of useful advice given on the replies to the OP, and yes also a few strong comments. But, I don't think that anyone has been unfair.

On this and other forums there are countless posts along a similar vein, but which actually want "permission" from other forum users to basically dump their pet with a rescue, etc. because it no longer fits with their lifestyle. (I am not suggesting that is the case with this particular OP, btw).

So you can see how, sometimes, people can get a little strident when giving their advice and opinion.

Animals are often treated as a disposable commodity and true animal lovers are upset by this and react accordingly.

The animals do not have a voice, after all.

Hopefully, the OP will return to the forum to read through the varied advice and opinions and see that his family and cat can exist together in relative harmony.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Lunalad76 has been on the thread and read the majority of advice given, last online 11th january at 6.43pm so all we can guess is the advise has been taken onboard and they are now busy doing what needs to be done to keep their cat happy indoors.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

I think some of the comments are unfair.

He may have always wanted the cat to go outside, which he has cited as having happened when he was younger, so given the change in circumstances it makes sense that he brings up his old argument again.

However, I'm now 28 weeks pregnant & we have three litter trays in the house which my husband has cleaned since I was 6 weeks pregnant. We'd never entertain the idea of them going outside at all so it was a no-brainer for us.

We are going to take having animals in the house very seriously. I cannot believe people are suggesting it is okay for animals to sleep with babies in their cots. Animals are animals. Cats should be supervised around babies at all times, just like dogs. I know my cats, given half the chance, WOULD sleep on a baby because they sleep on our laps & a baby is probably as big as they are so where would they end up sleeping? On his face...


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I wasn't suggesting that a cat shares the cot with a baby. I'd not let that happen, but nor would I allow a cat to be booted out because it was convenient to do so by using the baby as an excuse.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the cat shared the cot with the baby. Someone just mentioned that her cat used to sleep with her, probably supervised, and everyone has jumped on it.

When my grandson was born, every time he cried one of my cats used to run through the bungalow and jump in his cot and pat him on the shoulder. Naturally someone always followed her and she was not allowed to stay and if there was no one to supervise, the door was kept shut.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

This has gone way off course - closing to read through


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I've been through this and removed some of the posts but am going to leave it closed as I think everything has been said.
The OP has been given excellent advice and enough anecdotes to show that cats, pregnant women and even babies can co-exist in the same household.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

At the OP's request I am reopening this thread. let's try to keep it helpful please


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## Lunalad76 (Jan 9, 2013)

Thank you Lynn for giving me the chance to respond to all this negative criticism of me.
First of all I'd like to say thanks to all the positive advice I was given,and to update great news with Jinxy,after the initial few days of her meowing by the front door and me staying outside with her each time,she now goes out regularly,sometimes only for 20 mins but at night she's happily out for a couple of hours,won't come back in when I call her,and even meowed to go back out at 11.30pm the other night! She's not been to the toilet once in the house either,so all in all it's all going well.

Now to all those people who found it necessary to write totally uncalled for negative comments towards me,how I've abandoned my cat,that I'm cruel,manipulative and that you were that upset over what I'd wrote....GET A LIFE!
You know absolutely nothing other than the small bits I've said about Jinx as a cat,and I find some of your views totally hypocritical!
I love my cat,she gets plenty of fuss,she's got toys and gets treats,she even has her own bed in the spare room that she sleeps on! So to make me out to be cruel like you have done is quite pathetic.
As some of you have quite rightly said,every cat is different,and I know my cat,who used to love going out and now hopefully will do again.
I think cats should be able to go out and play and hunt,as that's what's in there nature,so the people who said I'm manipulating my cat,if your cat wants to go outside,do you let it? Or do you always keep it inside? Because that's what YOU want for it?
Like I said I think personally there's a lot of you who are complete hypocrites.
And maybe you should look closer to home,before you prejudge me!

Again,thanks to those of you who gave positive advice.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

From your OP it wasn't clear at all that she was happy going outside before, which is why people got het up so much.

Of course we don't have all the facts, we only went on what _you_ gave us, if that was incomplete then that is _your_ doing.

I fail to see how anyone has come across as a hypocrite. If you don't like the people on the forum, I suggest you utilise the log out button


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

If this is just going to cause more arguments I will close it again.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Did you purposely ask for this thread to stay open just so you can have a go at people who enjoy their cats being indoors. You have been given great advise and if you wish for your cat to be outside at night thats your right but please dont be nasty to people who enjoy having cats indoors as they are thinking of the dangers to outside cats.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

You still didnt confirm how old your cat is? If she is 18 - thats the problem! She may well be out hunting, and at the same time be hunted. Foxes particularly prey on elderly, less agile cats. Your choice!


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## Lunalad76 (Jan 9, 2013)

I haven't been nasty at all,I was merely saying every cat is different so please don't pre judge me. If you've got a cat that likes to stay in and you're happy then fine,my point is that I've had to take all this critism just because I want to put my cat outside occasionally. I've got better things to be doing then coming on here for a row,I simply wanted some good advice that is all.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Lunalad76 said:


> I haven't been nasty at all,I was merely saying every cat is different so please don't pre judge me. If you've got a cat that likes to stay in and you're happy then fine,my point is that I've had to take all this critism just because I want to put my cat outside occasionally. I've got better things to be doing then coming on here for a row,I simply wanted some good advice that is all.


Maybe next time you should consider giving us more information in your posts, rather than coming across as shoving your cat outside where she doesn't want to go


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## Lunalad76 (Jan 9, 2013)

'rabbitmonster' I think you'll find it's you who hasn't read my first post properly,I stated that up until a few months ago Jinxy regularly went outside and sometimes still wouldn't come in at 11pm at night,so please don't have a go at me for not reading it properly.
I simply wanted some good advice as to why she may now be spooked,or ways of training her without a litter tray. But unfortunately people have read what they wanted to read and got on there high horse!

I've had the moderator tell me she's had to delete some of the replies as they were that personal,and I've also had a lovely message sent me from someone actually apologising on behalf of all the negative responses almost to the point of being embarrassed by it.
Did people not expect me to have a few choice words to say of me own in response?
People in glass houses.......


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

As you have such a bad memory - here's what you said:

*Me and my fiancé have a 1&a half year old female cat called Jinx,who lately in the last few months has become solely a indoor cat and doesn't like to go outside at all anymore. She has a litter tray and always has done (much to my disapproval,as growing up all the family cats my parents had always went outside)
Anyway,up until a few months ago jinny would regularly want to go outside,always at funny times though like 11pm at night! 
And then suddenly she stopped,maybe for one of two reasons....the big stray male cat that my neighbour always feeds! Or maybe cause when she wouldn't come in one night at around 12.30am she got shut out for the night!*

Did you mean to say something completely different?


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Lunalad76 said:


> 'rabbitmonster' I think you'll find it's you who hasn't read my first post properly,I stated that up until a few months ago Jinxy regularly went outside and sometimes still wouldn't come in at 11pm at night,so please don't have a go at me for not reading it properly.
> I simply wanted some good advice as to why she may now be spooked,or ways of training her without a litter tray. But unfortunately people have read what they wanted to read and got on there high horse!
> 
> I've had the moderator tell me she's had to delete some of the replies as they were that personal,and I've also had a lovely message sent me from someone actually apologising on behalf of all the negative responses almost to the point of being embarrassed by it.
> ...


You were given excellent advice by a lot of members, particularly on the first page. My personal objection to it was that you were trying to push your cat into doing something she clearly wasn't happy with, just because you couldn't (or more wouldn't) clean out a litter tray.

Furthermore, if you suspected she was getting spooked by this stray male, it might have been a good idea to catch him and take him to a local vet which is part of the neuter and release scheme. It's likely that she was getting spooked because the male cat is entire and there was a territory clash.


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## Miri (Oct 20, 2012)

Hi Paul,

Just wanted to say that there may be future times you might need to keep Jinxy in - for example, if she's unwell, she's had an operation, she's being intimidated by an un-neutered Tom or if you move house. (Best to keep a cat in for _at least_ a month after moving house to allow her to settle completely.)

If she does need to be kept in for a while at any time or is afraid of going out, please don't be too worried about the risks of an indoor litter tray. With good hygiene practices and an anti-track mat down under the tray to stop litter from spreading around the house, it's extremely unlikely that any of your family will catch an infection from cat litter. (For what it's worth, I'd recommend Oko-Plus Cats Best litter - it's flushable and doesn't create a lot of dust like some of the popular supermarket brands. It also clumps, therefore keeping the cat poo/pee confined to easily removable clumps of litter rather than spreading throughout the litter.)

I'd just like to mention one plus to a cat using a litter tray rather than the garden, and that is that with a litter tray (and mat) at least you know where to keep your child away from. If your cat uses the flowerbed, for example, and your child is playing ball in the back garden when they're old enough, the ball could well land in a cat "toilet" without you realising it, especially if there's more than one cat using your garden as a toilet. (This applies to the ball going into neighbours gardens, too - there's always the possibility that other cats and/or dogs have toileted in neighbours' gardens.)

I agree with RabbitMonster's advice that it would be a good idea to get the stray male cat neutered if he hasn't already had the snip. Un-neutered toms can be aggressive towards other cats in their wide-ranging territory, and because they're more prone to fights with a wide variety of cats, they're also at higher risk of having FIV. We learnt about this the hard way when a tom attacked one of my family's cats and she became FIV positive. Although she was healthy for a number of years afterwards, her immune system eventually packed up, taking her from us when she was about 14. Her sister, who didn't have FIV, lived to the grand old age of 20.


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## Lunalad76 (Jan 9, 2013)

Hi Miri thank you for the positive advice,that was after all I ever wanted from people.
Not to be completely slated for wanting to put my cat outside to pay rather than be indoors!
Rabbitmonster and ang2,am I going completely mad here or does it not state quite clearly in my first post,that my cat jinx used to go outside quite regular? And enjoyed going out? And that its only been lately that she's been scared to go out,due to maybe the other cat? Or me shutting her out one night cause she wouldn't come in?
Yes I had concerns regarding the litter tray and a baby,and yes by the sounds of it after people's information,there's a very small chance of my fiancé catching any kind of disease.
But that's my prerogative to do as I feel,and a baby will always come first regardless of how much I love my cat,end of!

So the advice I was looking for,was to how to get jinx to 1)feel more comfortable outside again and 2)maybe what was the reason for her now being scared(ie the stray cat)

Wouldn't it of been far nicer of you all just to give positive advice and respect my wishes for my cat,rather than unnecessarily have a go at me just because you like to keep your cats indoors?!

Growing up by the way,we had 3 cats a mother and 2 of her litter, that all lived to between the ages of 14 and 18,and all 3 of them always went outside to play and all died naturally of old age.

Please respect my wishes and ways and I'll respect all of yours,but if your going to be negative towards me then expect me to be the same with you.

Jinx is 18 MONTHS old by the way,and not 18 years!


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Lunalad76 said:


> Hi Miri thank you for the positive advice,that was after all I ever wanted from people.
> Not to be completely slated for wanting to put my cat outside to pay rather than be indoors!
> Rabbitmonster and ang2,am I going completely mad here or does it not state quite clearly in my first post,that my cat jinx used to go outside quite regular? And enjoyed going out? And that its only been lately that she's been scared to go out,due to maybe the other cat? Or me shutting her out one night cause she wouldn't come in?
> Yes I had concerns regarding the litter tray and a baby,and yes by the sounds of it after people's information,there's a very small chance of my fiancé catching any kind of disease.
> ...


You seem to be under some misguided impression that we all want you to keep your cat indoors. Nothing could be further from the truth. What we were concerned about (which is what you're still not getting btw) is that you were trying to shunt her outside when she didn't want to go. Regardless of her going outside before or not, something happened to change her mind and you refused to accept this and continued to try and force her into doing something she didn't want to do.

That she's happy to go out now of her own volition is great. While I do not personally agree with it, each to their own. What I had a problem with was the fact that you were making her go outside when she was uncomfortable. You clearly had suspicions about this stray tom, why didn't you ask for advice regarding him? You would've then received the tip I have previously given, and his neutering could've solved the problem simply and easily.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Ang2 said:


> You still didnt confirm how old your cat is? If she is 18 - thats the problem! She may well be out hunting, and at the same time be hunted. Foxes particularly prey on elderly, less agile cats. Your choice!


Thought she was 1.5 years Ang?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Lunalad76 said:


> I haven't been nasty at all,I was merely saying every cat is different so please don't pre judge me. If you've got a cat that likes to stay in and you're happy then fine,my point is that I've had to take all this critism just because I want to put my cat outside occasionally. I've got better things to be doing then coming on here for a row,I simply wanted some good advice that is all.


The fact is that many of us on this site have seen too many cats suddenly homeless and staring out of the Gumtree site with' pregnancy forces reluctant rehoming' or 'new baby has allergies'; and in fact many of us have adopted said cats rather than see them go to a shelter and uncertain future and that is why people are being a bit straightforward in what they are saying. How does your partner feel about things?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Maybe if you had confirmed from the very beginning that she was only 18 months old and not 18 YEARS old, there would have been less negativity. 

All negative posts were related to you wanting to shove an elderly cat outisde because your partner was pregnant. Elderly cats often decide themselves to go out less and less as they dont feel safe. You had every opportunity to correct us, but chose to let the thread continue on the wrong track.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I feel this has gone far enough again - the original post was ambiguous age wise - I read 1&a as a mistyped 18. However, Let's all stop now or Lynn will have to shut the thread again. Be nice, play nice.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

There really is no need for any personal insults from anyone. If you can't be civil with one another you leave me no choice but to close this.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

To be fair, he did say from the start that the cat was 1.5 years old, a point that has been reitterated more than once. My concern was that the cat was being forced out when she didn't want to go. I've got no problem with people choocing to let their cats be outdoor cats even though I wouldn't do it with any of mine. I do have a problem when the cat clearly does not want to go out, but continues to be forced out anyway.

To the op, seems like your problem has solved itself which is great for you. I would continue to keep a litter tray indoors just in case you ever have to confine her. That way, she'll not rebel when you ask her to toilet in one of those which will mean no accidents, and potentially little presents for a crawling baby to discover, in your house.


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## Snow ball (Jan 17, 2013)

Hey, agreed on some previous post, however if you like your cat to go outside make sure you got a cat flap so she/ or he can go when ever he wants.
Second make sure you got a little area for him. Now you can bring some eart mix from your garden and mix a little amount with your litter. Do this for a week with more and more eart. At the same time start moving your littler box towards to your back door. It's may seems inconvenient but its works. Than with in week put the litter outside by your back door. Once the litter is outside you are the winner! It's may seems neede but its quick and works!


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## Lunalad76 (Jan 9, 2013)

Thank you carly87 and snowball for your positive advice,I shall definitely try some of that.
I can see why you thought it was maybe mean to put her out when she didn't want to,but I felt I had to be cruel to be kind if that makes sense?
I stayed out there with her each time to show her there was nothing to be scared of,as like I said,she always played out before and enjoyed it. Anyway she's back to her old self once more,and now meows to go out rather than to come in! Haha
Thanks again.

Ang2,please get over yourself!


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Lunalad76 said:


> Thank you carly87 and snowball for your positive advice,I shall definitely try some of that.
> I can see why you thought it was maybe mean to put her out when she didn't want to,but I felt I had to be cruel to be kind if that makes sense?
> I stayed out there with her each time to show her there was nothing to be scared of,as like I said,she always played out before and enjoyed it. Anyway she's back to her old self once more,and now meows to go out rather than to come in! Haha
> Thanks again.
> ...


Glad to hear she's happy again now. I do suggest keeping an eye out for that tom though, and trapping him humanely if you can. If he's entire (which I suspect he is) it's best to get his crown jewels removed as soon as possible for two reasons; mainly to stop him creating more stray kittens, and if he gets into your house while entire, he could decide to mark his territory through some very pungent spraying! Also, if he is the cause of your girl's worry, it would remove the angst, allowing her to feel more comfortable outside.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RabbitMonster said:


> Glad to hear she's happy again now. I do suggest keeping an eye out for that tom though, and trapping him humanely if you can. If he's entire (which I suspect he is) it's best to get his crown jewels removed as soon as possible for two reasons; mainly to stop him creating more stray kittens, and if he gets into your house while entire, he could decide to mark his territory through some very pungent spraying! Also, if he is the cause of your girl's worry, it would remove the angst, allowing her to feel more comfortable outside.


Please tell me you are not seriously recommending that OP has someone else's cat neutered without their consent or approval.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Please tell me you are not seriously recommending that OP has someone else's cat neutered without their consent or approval.


It has been known to have been done, if you know what I mean.  The cat's "loving" owner, if he has one, is usually never the wiser. Generally, if someone lets their entire male roam the neighbourhood, it means they seldom look at their cat, never mind checking his gonads. 

(yes, i know it's wrong...but still.....)


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> It has been known to have been done, if you know what I mean.  The cat's "loving" owner, if he has one, is usually never the wiser. Generally, if someone lets their entire male roam the neighbourhood, it means they seldom look at their cat, never mind checking his gonads.
> 
> (yes, i know it's wrong...but still.....)


For a start it would be illegal, for another the owner might have perfectly good reasons (in his eyes) for keeping the cat entire. Whether we agree with his reasons or not, it is still his cat and should be his decision.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> For a start it would be illegal, for another the owner might have perfectly good reasons (in his eyes) for keeping the cat entire. Whether we agree with his reasons or not, it is still his cat and should be his decision.


Yes, it would be illegal in the UK, I agree. Cat welfare and responsible ownership does not have a high priority here though. If the cat is collared and tagged, then I would consider him "owned". However, with no collar (or sign of ever having had a collar), I can safely assume he is a stray, feral or abandoned. The neutering would be for his own good IMO and be an act of humanity. I cannot imagine anyone would be able to succesfully lay charges here for such an action.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> Yes, it would be illegal in the UK, I agree. Cat welfare and responsible ownership does not have a high priority here though. If the cat is collared and tagged, then I would consider him "owned". However, with no collar (or sign of ever having had a collar), I can safely assume he is a stray, feral or abandoned. The neutering would be for his own good IMO and be an act of humanity. I cannot imagine anyone would be able to succesfully lay charges here for such an action.


I have never put a collar on a cat and I have to say that the majority of cats I see about do not wear one, so that is no indication.


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> For a start it would be illegal, for another the owner might have perfectly good reasons (in his eyes) for keeping the cat entire. Whether we agree with his reasons or not, it is still his cat and should be his decision.


This is a similar point to another thread where people think it is appropriate to take other peoples cats inside because they might be cold having a wander in the snow. There are some people on here who spend a lot of time helping with animal welfare - there are others who just seem overly zealous and renegade in their views of how they think animals should be looked after - and lots of it seems very inappropriate and shouldn't be encouraged.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I have never put a collar on a cat and I have to say that the majority of cats I see about do not wear one, so that is no indication.


Generally cats are collared and tagged here to indicate that they are "owned". My cats all wear collars, even though they are mainly indoor cats. They are tagged with their name and my tel number as well as the number of their vet and are microchipped. As I said, things are a bit "rougher" for cats here. Many of my fellow countrymen and women hate and fear cats (and eat them too on occasion, alas)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I was more than happy to have two entire males that were coming into my house neutered. Neither had any sign of a collar, neither had a chip. My then vets (I've moved 200 miles since) were very happy to do it and I'm sure they knew the cats might not really have been strays.

Yes it's illegal, but I've never heard of a prosecution for it, and if someone's stud cat escapes I suspect I have seen enough pedigree cats of many breeds to have an idea it might not be a moggie. The ones I had done were a black, and a black & white, both DSH.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

I have 5 cats, chipped but not collared, a very very dangerous thing is a collar, 15 years ago I found a dead cat hung from a tree by the collar and last year my neighbours cat got theirs caught under her (armpit is that the right description) leg and rubbed a huge welt that needed 10 or so stitches x 

so not having a collar is not an indication of an un-owned cat, and I would go mental if I found out anyone had attempted anything at a vets (other than an emergency or to see if it was chipped!!) x


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

sorry to the OP/others I do seem to go off on tangents !!!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> I have 5 cats, chipped but not collared, a very very dangerous thing is a collar, 15 years ago I found a dead cat hung from a tree by the collar and last year my neighbours cat got theirs caught under her (armpit is that the right description) leg and rubbed a huge welt that needed 10 or so stitches x
> 
> so not having a collar is not an indication of an un-owned cat, and I would go mental if I found out anyone had attempted anything at a vets (other than an emergency or to see if it was chipped!!) x


I agree that collars on cats are dangerous, but every time I have pointed that out I get told that they have a safety one nowadays which comes apart if it gets caught. Personally, I wouldn't trust it to work when needed. Many people, myself included, do not keep collars on their dogs when they are within their own property, because they think it is dangerous, so why would you do it with an animal that climbs trees?


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I agree that collars on cats are dangerous, but every time I have pointed that out I get told that they have a *safety one* nowadays which comes apart if it gets caught. Personally, I wouldn't trust it to work when needed. Many people, myself included, do not keep collars on their dogs when they are within their own property, because they think it is dangerous, so why would you do it with an animal that climbs trees?


thats what my neighbours was supposed to be, poor woman (elderly and a bit brain fragile) was devastated x I cant stand them as you say on my dogs or cats, then only time I pop a collar on the dog is if I am out in public doing the walkies thing, all my animals are chipped, including my horses (well not the chickens) so they are identifiable x I will publicly announce that I DETEST collars x


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Lunalad76 said:


> Ang2,please get over yourself!


Lunalad76.... I cant believe you have written this to Ang2, I do think that until you know exactly who you are referring to you keep it nice, after all she is a wealth of knowledge in animal care and one day you may actually need some more advise from her.

Im glad you are happy that your cat now goes outside which is what advise you wanted from your first post.

Just to clarify if an entire cat can be proved as a stray cpl will step in and neuter and release under their scheme BUT if the cat is found to have an owner and you intentionally took the cat to be neutered you will be breaking the law as that is illegal.

Many posts have already given the Op the advise needed so if there is no further advise to be given then i wont be returning to read or comment on this thread.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I think modern collars are safer nowadays. I think it really depends on the circumstances. As I said, my cats are indoor/confined to a cat proof garden. They are indoors when we go out. However, in the event that they escape (accidents do happen), I would like the reassurance that they would have a tag so that if found, I can be called immediately. They are microchipped, but many people are unaware of this or wouldn't be bothered to take them to a vet for scanning. People here have a different attitude towards animals, unlike the UK and other cat-loving nations.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> thats what my neighbours was supposed to be, poor woman (elderly and a bit brain fragile) was devastated x I cant stand them as you say on my dogs or cats, then only time I pop a collar on the dog is if I am out in public doing the walkies thing, all my animals are chipped, including my horses (well not the chickens) so they are identifiable x I will publicly announce that I DETEST collars x


I have to have something to grab hold of when I am out and Ferdie takes a particular fancy to another dog, so they will always wear collars outside regardless. I don't leave them on indoors, mainly because they matt their fur up. But they could easily get caught.

I was once warned against half check collars on another forum by some woman whose dog had twisted round and nearly hanged himself on one. It turned out she had tied him to a piano leg during a busy training session and wasn't watching him. Hardly the collar's fault, was it?


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> I agree that collars on cats are dangerous, but every time I have pointed that out I get told that they have a safety one nowadays which comes apart if it gets caught. Personally, I wouldn't trust it to work when needed. Many people, myself included, do not keep collars on their dogs when they are within their own property, because they think it is dangerous, so why would you do it with an animal that climbs trees?


I agree, my Furball hasn't worn a collar for around 8 years, she is chipped. Personally I have seen how those safety collars can fail and still cause severe damage so for me Furball goes without.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Please tell me you are not seriously recommending that OP has someone else's cat neutered without their consent or approval.


Ermm, no I'm not. See below:



Lunalad76 said:


> <snip>
> 
> And then suddenly she stopped,maybe for one of two reasons....the big stray male cat that my neighbour always feeds!
> 
> <snip>


It was this tom I was referring to.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

LL, I don't quite get the cruel to be kind thing, no, but different strokes for different folks. While it's not what i would have done, at least you made the effort to stay out with her.


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

cats galore said:


> you certainly wouldn't like my house then. i have litter trays everwhere. with 14 cats - all indoors due to acts of cruelty from neighbours (btw i only had about 5 at the time and they didn't all go out) litter trays are an essential part of caring for them


I certainly wouldn't, but each to there own


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

RabbitMonster said:


> Ermm, no I'm not. See below:
> 
> It was this tom I was referring to.


ermmmm yeah you kinda did!!!

see bellow



RabbitMonster said:


> Glad to hear she's happy again now. I *do suggest keeping an eye out for that tom though, and trapping him humanely if you can. If he's entire (which I suspect he is) it's best to get his crown jewels removed as soon as possible* for two reasons; mainly to stop him creating more stray kittens, and if he gets into your house while entire, he could decide to mark his territory through some very pungent spraying! Also, if he is the cause of your girl's worry, it would remove the angst, allowing her to feel more comfortable outside.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> ermmmm yeah you kinda did!!!
> 
> see bellow


It's already been stated he's a stray, not owned. He's being fed by a neighbour but is a stray nonetheless.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

RabbitMonster said:


> It's already been stated he's a stray, not owned. He's being fed by a neighbour but is a stray nonetheless.


how can he be certain its a stray, my cat has been fed by someone else dosent make him a stray, but im sure the idiot who was feeding my cat would of said he was a stray


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## kitty5 (Jan 11, 2012)

I have three outdoor cats, all microchipped and they have never worn collars.
This does not make them strays.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> how can he be certain its a stray, my cat has been fed by someone else dosent make him a stray, but im sure the idiot who was feeding my cat would of said he was a stray


He doesn't know, although from what was said this tom has been fed by this neighbour for a while. Often strays are obviously strays too, with mangy fur, cuts, etc.

If you're going to be so pernickty, I will change my advice.

OP, in case this tom is the cause of the problem, make sure he's a stray and, if he is, humanely capture him and take him to a local vet which is part of the neuter and release scheme.


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## Meow Meow (Jan 16, 2013)

cats galore said:


> you certainly wouldn't like my house then. i have litter trays everwhere. with 14 cats - all indoors due to acts of cruelty from neighbours (btw i only had about 5 at the time and they didn't all go out) litter trays are an essential part of caring for them


My my, 14 indoor cats! That just sounds so awful. Your house must be over run. Doesn't your house stink to high heaven? Hope you dont mind me asking?

Maggie x


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

I have to say that after reading this thread I feel that most of the members gave good advice and using their freedom of expression voiced their indignation at what we all felt was an unfair treatment towards a cat that seemed afraid. I´m glad that the cat seems happy going out now, especially as not many more options were given to it by the OP. However I don´t understand the attacks and hostility coming from the OP. This is a cat forum with real animal lovers who don´t force reluctant animals out. I don´t agree with people being offensive to new posters at all but I´m reading some very anger charged answers from the OP. Using my freedom to type what I consider appropiate too, I have to say that this is one of the most annoying threads I have ever read.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Lunalad76 said:


> Thank you Lynn for giving me the chance to respond to all this negative criticism of me.
> First of all I'd like to say thanks to all the positive advice I was given,and to update great news with Jinxy,after the initial few days of her meowing by the front door and me staying outside with her each time,she now goes out regularly,sometimes only for 20 mins but at night she's happily out for a couple of hours,won't come back in when I call her,and even meowed to go back out at 11.30pm the other night! She's not been to the toilet once in the house either,so all in all it's all going well.
> 
> Now to all those people who found it necessary to write totally uncalled for negative comments towards me,how I've abandoned my cat,that I'm cruel,manipulative and that you were that upset over what I'd wrote....GET A LIFE!
> ...


When I posted I asked you a questiion which received no reply...to reiterate: what is/was your fiancee's opinion on the situation with Jinxy?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I have never put a collar on a cat and I have to say that the majority of cats I see about do not wear one, so that is no indication.


The problem with a collar is: a cat wandering round with a collar MAY well be a stray but as it has a collar it is assumed to be OK...like if it has a collar it is not going to get lost.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Meow Meow said:


> My my, 14 indoor cats! That just sounds so awful. Your house must be over run. Doesn't your house stink to high heaven? Hope you dont mind me asking?
> 
> Maggie x


I doubt it does. It's uncleaned litter trays or houses with cats not using them that smell, not houses with clean trays and all the cat using them.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

kitty5 said:


> I have three outdoor cats, all microchipped and they have never worn collars.
> This does not make them strays.


It doesn't. However the two males I had neutered were scanned first and neither had chips. I also doubt you have an entire male wandering the neighbourhood.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

RabbitMonster said:


> He doesn't know, although from what was said this tom has been fed by this neighbour for a while. Often strays are obviously strays too, with mangy fur, cuts, etc.
> 
> If you're going to be so pernickty, I will change my advice.
> 
> OP, in case this tom is the cause of the problem, make sure he's a stray and, if he is, humanely capture him and take him to a local vet which is part of the neuter and release scheme.


How am I being pernickety! Because I called u out on something u wrote that was bad advice! Lol


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## Cosmo Curry (Dec 27, 2012)

I'm not sure if Ive ever come across such a unbalanced bunch of people as ive found here. The people that have gave the OP such a hard time should be ashamed of themselves. Im astonished at the attitudes found here. I really am. 

The OPs opening post is clear and completely unambiguous. He has simply asking for advice out of concern for his cat only to be subjected to a witch hunt! Some of the posts attacking the OP have had to be deleted and the thread locked because they were so bad.

People are still coming on to justify these attitutes! 

Is this an example of the general culture in this forum?


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> How am I being pernickety! Because I called u out on something u wrote that was bad advice! Lol


Bad advice how? If the OP's cat has been spooked by this tom then it needs to be resolved and can be if the tom is neutered. If he's a stray OP can catch him and take him to the vets, if he's owned then OP could politely mention it to the owner. How is this bad advice?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

There really has been far too much bickering and general unpleasantness on here. Enough is enough for goodness sake! I will not be re-opening this.


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