# Are we good enough for shows? (Golden Retriever)



## Nessie162 (Jul 16, 2010)

Hello 
Could you take a look at my girl and tell me if she's good enough for shows? (She's 4 yrs old)
Obviously I'm not talking about becoming a champion or anything. But it would be nice to win a few rosettes.

We've been to a few shows, when she was 1. She never won anything but then again she looked like a bald rat when she was young.

She's freestanding in the photos, as I couldn't stack her and take a photo with my phone at the same time


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm no expert on Goldies at all ......... very much a terrier person.

She looks a lovely girl. I wouldn't be happy about her shoulders, they look a little 'steep' and I'm not sure about her coat.

Have you tried showing her at Open level?


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## Nessie162 (Jul 16, 2010)

Yeah, I was taking part in Junior Handling a lot, so I had to show her in breed classes as well. She never was placed or was 3/3. But as I said before she was only 1 year old at the time, and I was a terrible handler, so it doesn't say much.


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

Take her and have a go :thumbup:
Enjoy yourself, chat to people. I'm sure the Goldie People are very friendly, their dogs always are 
What's the worst, that can happen?


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Although my dog was just a pup when I started showing, she was just a 'pet dog', and not bought from a show kennel. 

I read the breed standard and thought that she seemed to measure up quite well. So I started showing. I was a nervous handler, and doubly nervous as I wasn't sure she was good enough for the ring. But the showing bug bit, and I kept on going. I got to know people in my breed, and now know I'm right to show her as she's a very nice bitch!

I don't know GRs at all, I'm afraid, and it's difficult to tell from one picture. But dogs can start showing at any age. 

Get yourself to ringcraft so you"ll learn what to do in the ring, and then get out there and enjoy it. There are lots of GRs being shown, so if you don't get placed iit doesn't necessarily mean your dog's not good enough to be in the ring.


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## pickle (Mar 24, 2008)

Ooooh you have a hard breed to start showing in! Classes are huge for Goldies. By all means have a go, but don't be upset if your dog does not do as well as you may hope, if you are in the cards at all you will have done well. Then again who knows, good luck.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Nessie162 said:


> Hello
> Could you take a look at my girl and tell me if she's good enough for shows? (She's 4 yrs old)
> Obviously I'm not talking about becoming a champion or anything. But it would be nice to win a few rosettes.
> 
> ...


Not a goldie person, but a couple of things that would, in my breeds (both retrievers) stand out. Her pasterns seem to slope in the photos, and her shoulders are quite straight, as are her knees.



Not the best pic of my Labrador girl, will try and find another, she's a little porky at the moment (at least your girl is a good weight!).

The two things about that photo, she has a good straight topline, which I'm sure is similar for goldies, and her shoulder angulation is *decent*. She also has good straight pasterns, which is the equivalent of a wrist in dogs, and the stifle, which is the knee, has good angulation, is well turned, ie not too straight, and not over exaggerated.

This is the same bitch as a youngster, look at the pasterns, straight to the ground as they should be, back end isn't as stretched out as it could be showing a better topline and turn of stifle, but then Labs are free standing, which I like 



If you want to show, and you like your girl, I'd suggest you just carry on. My dual purpose flatcoat got second in her class, quite a big class, at Manchester Champ show; depending on the judge, they may prefer one *type* over another, so if you get involved, and find which judges prefer what *type* you can enter shows where you are more likely to get a second look.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Although I've had many 'Goldies' over the years, I'm afraid I can't help. not having any experience of the show world I'm not sure what they look for, I've posted a pic. of my current lad as a bit of a comparison. I've been told that he'd not be much good as a show dog, it seems his colour is not what they want, and he carries his tail too high, Still, he has no show blood in him so it's to be expected.


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

The showing world is a weird one. I have been to both Champ and Opens with my boy and have been ecstatically happy and in the depths of despair (not with my boy cos he is fab but with the attitude of some of the other competitors). 
It is a very time consuming hobby and can get VERY expensive so you need to decide what you want to put into it and what you want to get out of it. You need to look at what you have in your dog as unemotionally as possible and see what you have to work with and you need to decide what level you want to be at and decide if you can reasonably attain what you want.

Do you want to attend Championship shows? They are expensive to enter, they can mean lots of travel and possibly overnight stays. I work on an average that just the day of a Champ show costs me £100 not including any preparation. They can be a very high pressure environment and your time in the ring could be 15 minutes max. On the plus side the feeling when you get a rosette is worth everything.

Then there are Open Shows. They are much cheaper to enter and there is likely to be many more closer to home. They tend to be slightly more relaxed but everyone there still wants to win. You would still be up against very high quality dogs and there are many Champs there as well as very good dogs owned by people who don't like the Champ circuit or like me do both.

Then there are 'fun' shows not under KC regs. You still get the day out and do everything you would at the higher levels but without the pressure and expense.

Firstly, does your dog fit the breed standard in every way? If not, then are you experienced enough to be able to hide any minor imperfections and present it in the best way possible? If not, can you invest enough time and/or money in learning how to do that or getting someone else to do it for you? 

I would start at a good ringcraft class and see how you like handling and get opinions on your dog (and your handling) from people who know. Go to shows of all levels without your dog and get a feel for them and see what happens and what kind of dogs are being shown in your breed.

Start entering Open shows and see what happens. You can move up to Champs if things go well and both you and more importantly your dog enjoy it or decide that all you want is a great time with your dog and maybe fun shows are for you. Your dog may not want to do it at all and be really unhappy.

You won't know until you try......Good Luck


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Judges prefer different types and colours. I used to show my cream coloured goldie Bonnie


Probably not stacked properly but she did get a VHC in a championship class once, and she got one 1st place. But she had skin issues and ended up getting discoloured fur because of other issues so we couldn't no longer show.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Going to show my ignorance of the show world here but what does. ''Not stacked properly mean ?', I'm genuinely curious.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

springerpete said:


> Going to show my ignorance of the show world here but what does. ''Not stacked properly mean ?', I'm genuinely curious.


When you stack a dog, you place the paws, so the dog is shown in the *optimum* pose. You also pose the head and spread out the tail to show feathering.

I'm against stacking for retrievers, and other gundog breeds, as I think it just gets so much about precision placement rather than the judge just looking at each dog and making a judgement on how they stand naturally.

I know not all will agree with that, but I really do prefer seeing free standing dogs, and no stringing up when moving. Just me, but that's my preference.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Thanks Jo, Now I know what it means, I just didn't know it was called that, I just thought it was positioning....I think I would have to tie a weight to Flytes' tail, and as for Skye, he'd never stay still long enough. Think I'll stick to what I know and leave the show ring to you chaps...Too complicated for me..


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> When you stack a dog, you place the paws, so the dog is shown in the *optimum* pose. You also pose the head and spread out the tail to show feathering.
> 
> I'm against stacking for retrievers, and other gundog breeds, as I think it just gets so much about precision placement rather than the judge just looking at each dog and making a judgement on how they stand naturally.
> 
> I know not all will agree with that, but I really do prefer seeing free standing dogs, and no stringing up when moving. Just me, but that's my preference.


Its what I was taught at ringcraft, but I realise now Bonnie was better free standing. she just never held her tail out on her own lol.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Wiz201 said:


> Its what I was taught at ringcraft, but I realise now Bonnie was better free standing. she just never held her tail out on her own lol.


The thing is, when you move your dog, that's when they hold their tail naturally, so why hold it out? Some dogs stand with their hind end tucked under them, some stand showing off the best angulation.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> The thing is, when you move your dog, that's when they hold their tail naturally, so why hold it out? Some dogs stand with their hind end tucked under them, some stand showing off the best angulation.


When in Rome.... I wouldn't get anywhere unless I stacked Bess, as that's the way all ISs are shown.

If you take part in any sport you learn the rules. Wouldn't be much good practicing with a rugby ball for a football match!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

BessieDog said:


> When in Rome.... I wouldn't get anywhere unless I stacked Bess, as that's the way all ISs are shown.
> 
> If you take part in any sport you learn the rules. Wouldn't be much good practicing with a rugby ball for a football match!


I would hazard a guess that stacking pointers and goldies etc, is more of a modern invention, prompted by the show ring though. If it's worked for one person to seemingly make their dog stand out, then it's obviously going to be taken on by others. So much importance seems to be placed on *the stand* though, which makes me wonder if the judges have actually taken notice when they've gone over the dog, if they then have to see them so precisely stacked.

I can see how it's all now become part of the *theatre* of the show ring, I'm just not keen on it, and I hope it doesn't start happening with Labs or flatcoats. They're already starting to run flatcoats with tight leads, which isn't how they are *traditionally* shown. Mind you, people are also starting to shave their necks and chest which is the fashion over the channel I'm afraid.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I would hazard a guess that stacking pointers and goldies etc, is more of a modern invention, prompted by the show ring though. If it's worked for one person to seemingly make their dog stand out, then it's obviously going to be taken on by others. So much importance seems to be placed on *the stand* though, which makes me wonder if the judges have actually taken notice when they've gone over the dog, if they then have to see them so precisely stacked.
> 
> I can see how it's all now become part of the *theatre* of the show ring, I'm just not keen on it, and I hope it doesn't start happening with Labs or flatcoats. They're already starting to run flatcoats with tight leads, which isn't how they are *traditionally* shown. Mind you, people are also starting to shave their necks and chest which is the fashion over the channel I'm afraid.


The importance of the stand annoys me. When out and about Bess has the most beautiful natural stand - you couldn't wish for anything better. Yet in the ring, with me, she drops her hips over her hocks and slouches. That's why we don't get placed. When someone else handles her she's fine. 

Yet I know her conformation is very good, particularly her back end. And yes, I sometimes wonder what the judge is looking for.

A judge knows my dog, and another very well. The other dog is apparently not as good as Bess, and has a major fault with her tail. Yet it's always placed higher than me (unless we're both binned). The only difference is she's got an experienced handler.


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

I am with you lot and prefer a dog standing naturally. Mylo looks much better that way as he hates having his head held. When you stack him and hold his head he arches his back and drops his tail and looks awful. I have never seen anyone else freestand a GSP and don't care if I look different.


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## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

I loose lead Dexter when we move. He moves very well without the need to string him up. Only once did I do it and that was at Crufts, he moves better loose lead. About 99% of the people in Papillons don't loose lead.

I know it's meant to be so they can see their topline and not put their head down, but surely the judge can see that when the dog is standing?

I've seen dogs with front feet that barely touched the ground.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

No I don't like that method. Watching crufts, the handlers seem to do it quite a lot.


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## Dober (Jan 2, 2012)

Definitely have a go with her and take her to handling classes  Then even if she's not competitive, you can still practise, learn all about showing the breed and refine your handling skills, and you may wish to purchase a show prospect in the future. I know with my first dog, I made *SO* many mistakes, but learnt from them for future dogs


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