# Sticky  Thinking about breeding from your Bitch?



## petforum

If you are thinking about breeding puppies from your bitch, we have created a useful article about responsible dog breeding for you to read below which will give you all the facts :

*Introduction*

So, you're interested in breeding puppies from your bitch? There are many things to be taken into consideration before making this decision, so read on before making your mind up.

One of the most important things to consider is what impact will your bitch being bred from have on the breed. It may seem allowing her to have just one litter will not have much effect, but multiply this by many such litters and it has a huge impact.

It is generally accepted that there are more dogs bred than there are good homes available for, and those bred irresponsibly, accidentally or casually and then not homed to really committed owners, with breeders not willing to take lifelong responsibility are more likely to end up swelling the ranks of rescue dogs, many of whom end up being put to sleep each year.

So bearing in mind the above the only reason any dog or bitch should be used for breeding is to improve and maintain the quality and typical traits of a breed, and to provide dogs needed for some working purposes. There will be plenty left over from such litters to make non working/non show pets.

You can view the kennel clubs view on responsible breeding 
[1] and the Kennel Clubs general code of ethics [2] (note particularly points 6 and 7 regarding responsibilities to the breed and ongoing responsibility to puppies). All those who use KC services are expected to be bound by this code.

A Pet owner wanting a pedigree puppy will want to know that it is going to be like its breed and be typical in looks and character traits.

They will also want and deserve to have a dog with the odds heavily stacked in favour of avoiding hereditary health issues some of which can be tested for by DNA, many other problems only have a test for the affected/non affected status of the parents, but not identify carriers, and still others can only be avoided by careful pedigree research, which requires a deep knowledge of the parents ancestors.

This following article describes what a good breeder/stud dog owner should be, and how the other kind can be identified [3]

Those who breed poor and unhealthy specimens and who fail to carry out health screening have been taken to court and found to be responsible for dogs developing health issues, and those who advertise a litter of pups can be prosecuted by Trading Standards for any misleading information, such as quality of the dogs, breed etc, as the Trades Descriptions Act covers dogs in the same way as it does washing machines. With buyers paying not inconsiderable sums for pups many are quick to follow the legal, route, especially the small claims court which costs them little.

*Should I breed from my bitch?*

Before deciding to breed from your bitch, there are a few questions you should ask yourself;

Do you have the time and space to look after these puppies? Puppies shouldnt go to their new homes until they are at least 8 weeks old and what if your litter consists of over 10 puppies? They will be handful and require a lot of looking after.

Do you have the money needed to care for the puppies? There are lots of costs involved in breeding puppies, for example health tests for the bitch prior to breeding, stud fees, vet fees, whelping box, dog and puppy food, blankets, kennel club registration fees etc.. It is possible that your bitch may only have a very small litter and if she has difficulty whelping the litter and needs caesarean, the costs involved may be very high, therefore you may not make a profit.

What happens if you cant find good homes for the puppies? On some occasions you may find it difficult finding good homes for your puppies and may need to take care of them until they are much older than 8 weeks old. Would you be in a position to take back a puppy if one of the new owners could no longer look after puppy?

*Health Testing*

The Kennel club and breed clubs run health testing schemes in conjunction with the British Veterinary Association, The Animal Health trust and other scientific and veterinary organisations for the screening of breeding stock for inherited disease.

In the UK, the kennel club has information here [4] you can read to find which schemes are available etc.

Your breeds breed clubs can advise which tests are appropriate. Your Vet may need to be involved in taking x-rays or samples, and other tests you will have to see a specialist. Many GP Vets are unaware of which tests and procedures are appropriate so contact the Kennel club for the breed club details who are best able to advise.

The most usual Tests are for Hip scoring for signs of Hip Dysplasia (which can affect all breeds and non breeds), and Eye testing for the many eye disorders effecting many breeds.

*Paperwork*

If she is a pedigree breed she will need to be registered with the Kennel Club. You will also need to check for any endorsements on her registration papers which may prevent you from using her to breed from.

In turn the same should apply to the dog you are thinking of using at stud. You will need to check his paperwork before you agree to the mating.

You should also have on hand your bitches, and examine the studs Hip Score certificate (all breeds and non breeds can suffer Hip Dysplasia so should be hip scored), eye test certificate if applicable (the list of breeds and conditions known to be inherited by them are listed here [5]), and any other health scheme certification appropriate for the breed (your breed club, and the kennel club can advise, some of the schemes are detailed here [6] )

After mating the bitch owner should pay the stud fee.

The stud owner should provide a receipt for the stud service and detail the terms of any free return should there be no pups, for example only the same bitch or another suitable bitch from the same owner. What would happen if the dog becomes unavailable or proves/becomes infertile etc.

An accurate signed pedigree form for the stud should be provided, and also copies of health certificates for the stud.

Stud owner should sign and complete the details on the KC Form I (litter registration form) confirming the mating. When the pups are born you will complete the bitch details and details of the puppies choosing two names for each puppy.

These documents should be available before puppies go to their new homes so it is best to register the pups as soon as it looks like they will survive.

It is a very good idea to permanently identify your pups with a microchip (see your Vet or contact Petlog [7] for details), or alternatively/additionally by ear tattoo. Details of The National Dog Tattoo Registry can be found here [8]

*Finding the best homes for your puppies*

Certainly before you mate her, you should already have several firm bookings for your puppies, because beleive me, there is nothing more time consuming or financially draining than having to run on several rapidly growing puppies.

This is the hardest part of breeding and the one that causes the responsible breeder the most heartache.

The more careful you are about vetting potential owners the less chance you have of the homing going wrong, and having to face re-homing and rehabilitating former pups who may be juvenile delinquents, have behavioral problems, or worse still had been mishandled deliberately but more often due to ignorance.

What you want is knowledgeable and preferably experienced new owners. For those applicants that are first time owners you need to be sure they know exactly what the responsibilities and realities of owning a canine infant are.

Even people who have had dogs before tend to remember the sensible well behaved adult they owned of knew in their childhood.

What they get with a puppy is a blank page, an infant that is of a different species and many misunderstandings between the two can occur, and sometimes cause the relationship to break down.

You need to be available to help new owners with these problems.

Where you choose to advertise your puppies is entirely up to you, but what you need to remember is the type of audience for any media you choose.

Breed club advertising will most likely reach an audience of breed owners,a nd more often than not any wanting a puppy especially from your litter will probably have already registered an interest.

Your best to have your name with your breed club puppy list co-ordinate. Breed clubs generally receive enquiries from people that have done their homework, and know that breed clubs have stricter standards, and usually codes of ethics within which it's members breed..

The Kennel Club puppy list will tend to attract potential owners who are more than likely trying to find a reputably bred puppy (though sadly they are often unaware that all KC registered pups are not bred by ethical breeders).

There are canine magazines which the general public buy and will attract people who have given purchasing a puppy some thought.

Local Newspapers and free adds tend to attract impulse purchasers as well as a few good potential owners who simply don't know how to find a puppy. Sadly these venues are most often full of advertisement from back yard breeders and puppy farmers, and some good breeders prefer to boycott them. Others are of the opinion that potential owners deserve to have good breeders from which to choose and carefully word their adverts to contrast with the 'usual' emphasising health testing, blood lines etc.

Having your own website is a good idea, but bear in mind the impression people may get from it, and the one you are trying to convey.

There are also many canine websites on which you can advertise or have a breeder listing, and many people now use the Internet as a research tool.

Wherever your enquiry comes from you need to vet carefully taking into account all you are told and learning to read between the lines.

Questions you may want to ask include:

Who will care for the dogs on a daily basis, if owners work what firm care arrangements will be in place so the pup does not spend more than a couple of hours alone.

How active is the family. Those leading a sedentary lifestyle are hardly suddenly to make a radical change and go hill walking with a Husky.

Are thee children or frail adults in the family, or likely to become part of the family in the foreseeable future.

Have they secure garden and are there likely to be conflicts with neighbours, bedrooms overlooking the dogs exercise area etc.

What happened to their last dog/what other dogs/pets do they own.

*Providing Aftercare for your puppies*

The care and rearing of a litter of puppies is a huge subject, and there are many books on this.

Your best source of advice on this subject are experienced good breeders of your breed, and no doubt either your bitches breeder or the stud dog owner will be able to help and advise as well as the breed club who probably have articles on the subject in club publications.

There are some things that are common to all pups but a lot of things can vary according to the needs of the breed and their development.

There is a lot to consider before bringing a litter of puppies into the world, not least of which is to understand having to cope with a litter of puppies until they are turned 8 weeks old, is certainly no picnic.

By the time they are 5 weeks old, they are noisy, often dirty and smelly from trampling in their own poo in their haste to get their heads in the food dish.

They need space to run, play and exercise as they can't and won't want to stay confined to the whelping box from the time they are born to the day they leave for their new homes.

All bitches require somewhere quiet warm and private to whelp.

After birth most breeders keep a close eye on pups for signs of problems. some breeds make very natural careful moths some don't and without being watched almost constantly until their eyes are open may be neglected or crushed by the mother.

All pups need warmth at first as they are born unable to regulate body temperature, but some quickly require less heat, and others need it.

All pups once their eyes are open need to be in a busy area of the house to gain maximum benefit of socialisation and habituation with human d homes and activity.

As pups become mobile they will need more space. Some breeds can effectively be reared using a large puppy pen, many others will soon be unhappy being confined and need safe space and shelter while they spend time outdoors.

The age at which pups are physically and mentally ready to leave for new homes and require more individual attention also varies.

With many this will be around 7 to 8 weeks, with others like some toy breeds they should not be homed until 12 weeks of age

*Legal Requirements*

Since 1999, under 'The breeding and sale of Dogs welfare Act' ( See here [9] ) people who breed five or more litters in any 12 month period need to be licensed via the local authority. Even if you breed less than five litters per year, you may need to be licensed if the local authority deem that you are breeding for commercial gain.

Breeders who are Licensed must undergo inspection, keep detailed records, must not breed from any bitch under 12 months from when she last whelped or take more than six litters from her.

The kennel club also has rules as to the age and number of litters a bitch may have, and individual breed clubs will have generally even stricter limits for their members, based on a given breeds welfare and needs.


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## baillieswells

This is an article I wrote for the East Anglia Border Terrier Club's website. (long)

Thinking of Breeding from your Dog?

If you have to ask your self this question then the answer is almost certainly DONT.

The main reason to breed a litter is if you are into showing and want to establish your own line. If you just want to have a puppy to keep your present bitch company why not just buy another puppy? The idea that it is good for a bitch to have a litter is just an old wifes tale.

If you are really considering breeding from your favourite bitch here are a few of the hurdles which need to be overcome. First, is your bitch good enough to breed from; is she a good example of the breed and doesnt have any obvious faults like a bad mouth? Next you have to decide on the stud dog. It is not a good idea to go to the dog down the road. One should choose a dog which complements the good points of your bitch and doesnt have any of the faults. If you are really determined then consult the breeder of your bitch or go to a few Border Terrier shows. It may be that the stud dog you choose lives many miles away, which will involve a long journey. Do you know how to decide when the bitch is ready to mate? If not, this may involve a fruitless journey or several return journeys. Also is the owner of the stud dog willing to service your bitch? One should arrange this several months before hand. Border Terriers are not always easy to mate. Even a well tried stud dog may fail to mate, or be put off by an uncooperative bitch, particularly a maiden bitch. What if the bitch comes into season unexpectedly, upsetting holiday plans, or the puppies would be born at an inconvenient time. Remember from time of mating until the puppies go to their new homes is seventeen weeks. 

Once you have mated your bitch, you have to look after her for the nine weeks of her pregnancy. It can be quite traumatic waiting to see whether she is pregnant. When the time comes for her to give birth, do you understand the signs of labour and what to expect? Border Terriers have a nasty habit of whelping in the middle of the night. If something goes wrong, or a caesarean operation is necessary, do you have a vet who you can trust? Once the puppies are born, you will have to keep an eye on both them and the bitch. Some bitches will reject their puppies; others may not produce enough milk. If the worst should happen and the bitch die in labour, and it does happen, then you will have several weeks of hand rearing the offspring. Weaning starts at about three weeks, at which time the puppies become very messy, and a litter of puppies between five weeks and eight weeks running around loose is a real handful. At eight weeks, you will have presumably chosen the puppy you are going to keep, you will then have to find homes for the remainder of the litter. Do you have prospective owners, and if so are they ready to take a puppy at this time? To keep several puppies over eight weeks old, because you havent found homes for them, is not recommended.

To all this one has to consider the costs involved, such as the stud fee, any veterinary fees, such as for an ultra scan, and particularly if a caesarean operation should prove necessary. Weaning food for the puppies followed by puppy food, extra food for the bitch, extra heating to keep the room warm enough. The list goes on and on. 

Bitches do not always conceive, or may reabsorb the foetuses, so no puppies, or the puppies may not survive. And remember pregnancy and labour are not without dangers to the bitch.

If after all this you still decide to breed from your bitch, then read as much as you can beforehand. There is a good chapter in Anne Roslin -Williams book The Border Terrier, and there are many books just devoted to breeding


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## MY-PK Bobby

Hi, I would just like to say that above all you should be concerned about the stud dog's health. Every breed has it's problem you should focus on but there is one general issue that should concern all breeds and that's Herpes - especially if you decide to breed with a popular stud dog that has been bred with many different bitches. My friends bitch died of Herpes after giving birth. None of the puppies survived. She had autopsy done that proved the cause of death as Herpes. The thing to know is that you can prevent this by vaccinating your bitch before mating her. There is a particular vaccination scheme for this you should check with your vet. Usually the male dog doesn't even have to have any symptoms of Herpes and could be just carrier.


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## petko

If you plan to breed from your bitch then make sure that she is fit before you start. Any on-going problems should be cleared up, especially ear or skin infections that may transmit to the puppies. If in doubt, then check with your vet who will also be able to advise you on vaccination policy. It would be unwise to mate your bitch under two years of age or before the third heat.

You will also need to determine the best time to mate your bitch. A basic knowledge of the bitch's oestrus cycle is vital for this. There are four distinct phases to the cycle:


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## kdifran92

What company is a good place to purchase in home ovulation test kits for your dog? I would preferably like to get either the urine, salivia, or vaginal smear tests.


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## Tanya1989

They are not reliable. Only blood progesterone tests are accurate


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## dexter

kdifran92 said:


> What company is a good place to purchase in home ovulation test kits for your dog? I would preferably like to get either the urine, salivia, or vaginal smear tests.


I've successfully used the vaginal test after previously failing to get my bitch in whelp. The results of the test indicated she wasn't ready to be mated until her 19th day(where as i thought she was ready on 11th and 13 th day) and she went on to have 5 pups.


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## shazalhasa

Going from another post on another thread, I was shocked to read that a vet had supposedly given the advice to not only breed a bitch who was at risk of pyometra but then to breed her back to back because she'd only given birth to one dead puppy :confused1:

Surely this can't be right.


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## Tanya1989

Wrote this the other day for a poster on here, thought I should add it on to here for others who can't be bothered to search:

Be very wary that "letting her have a litter of pups" could ruin her forever, assuming that she lives through it all. I do not been to sound all doom and gloom about it all, but its only fair that you do not go into it blindly. Here are points to consider before choosing to breed your bitch:

Is she health tested to Breed Clubs standard: the breed club are often much stricter than the KC regarding Health testing for eg: our breed club states that Leos should be health tested for Hips, elbows and eyes (certain scores are also relevant) whereas, the KCABS says we only must do hips and eyes, elbows are choice, despite it being a known problem within the breed.

Is she of perfectly sound temperament: this means to all people (which I would hope, but isn't always the case) and all dogs. It is fair to say that some breeds naturally don't like other dogs as it has been built in to them, for eg Shar peis, staffies, akitas etc, but the cocker does not have this built in, so if she ever shows aggression to other dogs sshe doesn't fit the bill, so to speak.

Is she shown or worked to gather herself a reputation (a good one) within the breed? With a breed like cockers that are being bred left, right and centre, it is important that further overbreeding does not continue. I'm sorry this sounds blunt, but to me, unless a dog has something to offer the breed as a whole, they should not be bred from. I hate the term "pet breeding" that seems to come along with the phrase: it doesn't matter what she looks like as long as she resembles the breed, the pups will only go to pet homes.  In which case, why not adopt from a rescue kennel? Rather than breeding a litter of pups and just adding to the population? Just because "s/he is a pet" doesn't mean there is any reason why s/he shouldn't be well bred.

Can you honestly say that you know the ins and outs of her 5 generation pedigree? You MUST know at least the first 4 generations including health problems, slight flaws in the temperament that may not have been "made public knowledge" slight health problems (and major ones). Do you know of any conformation flaws in the lines that need to be eradicated from the breed as a whole. For instance in my lines we have a weak front end, although my lad shows no signs of this, it is present in his ancestors. There for when a bitch comes to use him, it is my responsibility to make sure that her lines do not have a weak front (despite her having a strong one). The same could be said for my bitch, I HAVE to know her lines inside, out in order to choose the most appropriate stud. Then I have to learn the studs lines inside out.

Have you got a waiting list of at *least twice *the amount of the average litter size? What many breeders have experienced is the people who go on a waiting list is that up to half regularly drop out at the last minute due to change in circumstances, wrong sex/ colour of puppy etc. It is not been heard of to be stuck with 7 puppies at 16 week old who all need complete innoculations, thorough socialising, LOTS of food, time apart to prevent separation anxiety, training etc. The older a puppy gets, the harder to sell, so you can be your bottom dollar, the ones you are stuck with at 17 weeks old are the ones who'll stay with you forever.

Its also important to remember that the pups you breed could come back to you at any time if the owners circumstances change, if the pup develops a health problem, if (heaven forbid) has a temperament issue. Have you the space to take back the puppies, and the knowledge of how to correct the training issues, finances to pay for health treatment?

Are you financially able to bring up a litter successfully. You need to be able to hand over £2000 at the drop of a hat, PLUS your stud fee. I always recommend at least £3000, that if necessary, I could get in cash without skrimping and scraping, borrowing of family for the need of an emergency c section. Many vets nowadays will not perform a c section (emergency or not) without cash upfront, and will just put the bitch to sleep and allow the pups to die inside. Also, just worth a mention to anyone else reading this the PDSA will not do a c section, but just euthanise.

Are you in the type of employment that you could take 9 consecutive weeks off to raise the pups? Many people forget about this bit, but at least for a week before expected delivery you need to be with the bitch constantly, you are housebound for most of the 9 weeks, could you cope with this? You are awake (if breeding responsibly) for 4 weeks at 22 hours a day, can you cope with the physical demands. As most people on here will agree: nothing can prepare you for how tired you will be. It is a tired like no one can imagine. You have constant headaches from stress and lack of sleep, can you cope with this?

Are you emotionally prepared for losing your bitch? Yes, it does happen and yes it happens frequently. Quite often on forums, breed forums, yahoo groups etc for a foster mum, due to the death of a bitch. I ahve lost a bitch myself and I can honestly say I've never felt so much grief and guilt in my life as what I felt when she died. If I hadn't been so selfish as to want a puppy from her she'd still be here. After she died I resented the puppies. I couldn't keep one as it was too painful to have the constant reminder of what I'D done. So not only did I lose my bitch, I lost the puppy I would have kept also.

Can you cope with a litter of dead puppies? On average 1.5 puppies die from each litter bred, so the chances are extremely high that you could lose at least one puppy if not the whole litter. One here a member, also a first time dog breeder lost 2 puppies, the first two born were born dead, just a week ago. A couple of months ago a rottie bitch lost her only puppy after a difficult pregnancy. The bitch was distraught and so was her owner. She then suffered a terrible infection of the womb as the puppy had been dead inside her.

Can you imagine leaving the room for 30sec to pick up the post, answer the door etc and coming back to a room full of dead puppies where the mother has killed them all, accidentally or on purpose, it happens, all too often. :frown: Then there are problems like having to hand raise a litter because mum has rejected them, or you were lucky enough to see her killing the puppies and you managed to rescue a couple before the inevitable happened. Could you cope with having to take them form mum, who is also distraught about what happened and lock them in a room with yourself and mum outside the room whilst she is screaming in panic because you took her babies away, despite her rejecting them.

Can you see yourself living in a dump for 8 weeks why you have 8 puppies demanding food constantly, barking at 3am in a high pitched yap, upsetting all your neighbours whilst you are doing all the poo cleaning, all the feed cleaning, your washer is constantly on washing bedding for the pups and your clothing which is covered in tiddle and sh!t all the time. Do you have a garden which the puppies will be able to go on ie grass? Chippings, bark etc are a no no unless you have one human per pup to guard against eating the chippings, bark etc
What people fail to realise that breeding a litter is not for the faint of heart, and is in no way a quick way to make money (I'm not suggesting this is the case with you but all too often it is mentioned, so i thought I'd clear things up for others). It is a very time consuming, expensive way of keeping a pup behind. It is heart breaking thing to do and you really do have to have nerves of steel to do it. You face a huge risk of your bitch dying in just the mating of her, never mind the actual whelping, a long a difficult pregnancy where you are having to force feed her as she has decided she can't carry puppies and eat at the same time. You also risk her character changing. I have lost count of the number of times I have been bitten by a whelping bitch, feeding bitch who is guarding her babies. The trauma for me, getting bitten was unbelievable, despite me knowing in the back of my mind it could happen. But when all said and done, my baby bit me! .
These are a few things to consider. There is also a thread, that I started a few weeks back titles: Steps to take BEFORE mating your bitch. Like I said, I am not being all doom and gloom, but it is only fair on you don't get led into breeding blindly. However, if you have read this and done all the necessary things before choosing to breed, health tests, a few judges going over her etc and then still decide to breed then we WILL be here to help answer all your questions.


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## d0gcarer

This clip was shown to me by someone who works in a rescue center.

YouTube - ‪Dog Pounds Ireland - Five Days‬‏

Whilst there are many good breeders you have to be sure the puppies should go to good homes and not be another rescue dog.

Also I've been told that no responsible breeder will let one person have 2 puppies from the same litter as they may compete to be the alpha.

Has anyone bought 2 litter mates and how did it work out?


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## Mistyweather

Yes, my mother got two westie boys from the same litter. One very quickly became dominant and I always felt that the other was sad. When I got married and had a house of my own, I took this dog to live with us but he was always a bit reserved.


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## Tanya1989

Just one example of how it can go wrong: http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/187879-here-we-go-again-3.html#post1061538310


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## pamela7777

At what age can you start breeding puppies from your dog?


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## troublestrouble

i just wanted to say that as i am sat on the sofa with a glass of new years wine and my two darling girls i am really glad i DIDN'T breed from Trouble in order to get Stark.
i originally came on here looking for advice as i made my decision whether to breed Trouble or not and got lots of good advice and guidance, i did a fair bit of research and talked to lots of people in the flesh and my main reasons for doing it-having another pup, fear of how Trouble would react to another pup being brought into the home and having the experience-were soon concentrated into buying a new puppy to complete my beautiful family without hurting Trouble, risking her life or causing her distress and she has excepted Stark as her own. So thank you to all the people on here, now I have to get through the op to neuter Trouble which will probably be the most distressing bit for me. 

awww they have just properly cuddled up to each other, Stark is lying on Trouble. have a pic from christmas as my thanks to you all (not specifically this thread, just wanted somewhere to say this which might help others making the same decision i had to make.


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## Sleeping_Lion

pamela7777 said:


> At what age can you start breeding puppies from your dog?


Age shouldn't be your first question, conformation, health tests, temperament should be the first things you look into, lots of time to research this and see how a pup develops on and matures. There's no set rules, however, the KC won't register litters from a bitch that's mated under the age of 12 months, nor over 8 years at the time of whelping. 



troublestrouble said:


> i just wanted to say that as i am sat on the sofa with a glass of new years wine and my two darling girls i am really glad i DIDN'T breed from Trouble in order to get Stark.
> i originally came on here looking for advice as i made my decision whether to breed Trouble or not and got lots of good advice and guidance, i did a fair bit of research and talked to lots of people in the flesh and my main reasons for doing it-having another pup, fear of how Trouble would react to another pup being brought into the home and having the experience-were soon concentrated into buying a new puppy to complete my beautiful family without hurting Trouble, risking her life or causing her distress and she has excepted Stark as her own. So thank you to all the people on here, now I have to get through the op to neuter Trouble which will probably be the most distressing bit for me.
> 
> awww they have just properly cuddled up to each other, Stark is lying on Trouble. have a pic from christmas as my thanks to you all (not specifically this thread, just wanted somewhere to say this which might help others making the same decision i had to make.


Sometimes the hardest decision is not to breed, I was all set to take a litter from Indie, had her hips scored, elbows graded, bva eye test, pra test and then stood back, and realised it wasn't the right thing to do for her, so had her spayed. I still feel slightly sad there's no little Indie's running around, but I'm very glad I've got her, and she's as healthy as possible


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## troublestrouble

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I still feel slightly sad there's no little Indie's running around, but I'm very glad I've got her, and she's as healthy as possible


that is just it, but more than anything im glad iv got my two girls and they are happy and healthy and over the moon they have each other. what a lovely end to 2011 Stark has given me


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## Doguiesrus

d0gcarer said:


> This clip was shown to me by someone who works in a rescue center.
> 
> YouTube - ‪Dog Pounds Ireland - Five Days‬‏
> 
> Whilst there are many good breeders you have to be sure the puppies should go to good homes and not be another rescue dog.
> 
> Also I've been told that no responsible breeder will let one person have 2 puppies from the same litter as they may compete to be the alpha.
> 
> Has anyone bought 2 litter mates and how did it work out?


I bought dog and bitch dogues from same litter and they are fab together, 3 year old now. Can imagine two of same sex could be a problem x


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## TillyBunny

Hi i need some help, this is a question rather than an answer, i'm thinking of breeding from my japanese spitz bitch, the male i want to use is a jack russell, don't worry i probably wouldn't be selling any pups so they would all have a good home with me.

do you think the bitch could handle the jack russell's pups???

Thanks


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## kate24

Hi, im thinking of breeding my kc reg bitch cairn terrier with my kc reg dog cairn terrier. would i be able to kc reg their puppies??


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## bubble59

Can someone advise me please? I mated my bitch 3 weeks ago and the stud, who I also own, has just mated her again, tied etc, even though the signs of her heat are well and truly gone. I have never seen this before


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## TillyBunny

Maybe he's mating with her to make sure that he's the sire, like they would in the wild. 
Has she shown any signs of being pregnant??? or any of miscarrage???
You should take her to the vet and check they will tell you if shes pregnant and then you will know why you're stud's acting up.


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## jacksandbo

thank goodness i saw this thread.

We were thinking of breeding our Cockerpoo Bo, lots of people have said they would like one of her pups and we also would of liked one of her pups, but i did not consider the risk to Bo and i would not risk her health for anything.


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## vic2410

i have two americanbull dogs, my male will mount on to the female he will 
start slow then go fast so i know hea doing it right but they only go for
about 2 min maybe less, and they are not tieing can she still catch on.


----------



## vic2410

no shes not, this is her sceond heat now she showing the signs he mounts her but just dose not tie with her, she also walks around when hes trying


----------



## dexter

vic2410 said:


> no shes not, this is her sceond heat now she showing the signs he mounts her but just dose not tie with her, she also walks around when hes trying


she's probably not ready then


----------



## swarthy

dexter said:


> she's probably not ready then


Possibly - but bitches can be ready and they will still walk away - this (not aimed at you Dexter) is the reason why dogs should be held and managed during a mating.

If you do get a tie and one or both dogs panic - they could both do themselves some serious injuries (including death)


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## peterscot423

Before breeding the Bitch we have more carefully about the dog breed and we have also certified that the dog does not suffer from any infection.


----------



## Kyo

A lot of the articles i read from different websites and answers to peoples questions on different forums are scare tactics. I feel that instead of replying to someone wishing to breed with 101 ways your dog could die, actually talking them through the process kindly would allow them to have their eyes opened to the complicated process of breeding and not make some people just turn away from all advice because they are scared of being shouted at or reprimanded for not doing thing's correctly.
Many people will ignore advice that is commanded to them like they are silly children who couldn't possibly know what they're doing, and this will result in more dogs deaths than a kind hand helping along the way. 
I read all these articles and did find some interesting points, so thank you for the thread.


----------



## Burrowzig

The conception and birth of my litter of 6 went well, and the first has gone to his new home now. The other pups are gorgeous and I'm keeping 2.

I'm glad I did it, I now have these perfect pups, but NEVER, EVER again! I'm just so knackered. 

So I'd add to the things you should have in place; a partner to share the load. As a single person, self employed, who has had to work at the same time as having the pups (though reduced hours), my life has become a constant round of feeding/cleaning up after/play session - then they sleep and I go to work for 2-3 hours, come back, clean up (sometimes they've stayed clean), let them out, play with them, feed, back to work, come home, feed, clean up, cook something for myself if I have time (bowl of cereal if I don't), walk the mum and my other dog (who have been coming to work with me during weaning). It's bloody hard work. I knew it was going to be, but didn't foresee just how tired I'd be. It's been amazing at the same time, watching them grow and all the changes in them.


----------



## Bichonfrisefamily

Our Bichon Frise had an allergic reaction when she lived with a Chinese Crested Powder Puff, namely a lot of itching. A blood test at the time showed allergy to mites. When that dog left our home, the allergy disappeared. Should we refrain from breeding her?


----------



## SusieRainbow

Have you read this whole thread from the beginning ? I'm not sure if allergies in themselves contra-indicate breeding but there are plenty of other factors that would. 
Read up about the required genetic testing for Bichon Frise, consider your reason for breeding , the only real valid one is to better the breed. There are numerous puppy farms churning out Bichon Frise and various 'designer' cross breeds, do we need any more ? 
But first things first , read the whole thread from the beginning.


----------



## Bichonfrisefamily

Thank you for the guidance.
We have thought to breed her with another breed, to widen the gene pool, for example with a lagotto. But the allergy question is the main question for us, even having considered the many good points raised in the thread.


----------



## SusieRainbow

In that case I would suggest that you start a new thread , it will have more impact and you should get answers for people more knowledgable about allergies in breeding.


----------



## rocco33

Bichonfrisefamily said:


> Thank you for the guidance.
> We have thought to breed her with another breed, to widen the gene pool, for example with a lagotto. But the allergy question is the main question for us, even having considered the many good points raised in the thread.


No, I would not breed from a dog that suffered allergies. There are health tests, but they are not enough alone, the whole health of the dog should be looked at. 
There would be no benefit in breeding cross breeds - you would not be widening the gene pool but regardless, it would be irresponsible to breed from a bitch which is known to have a health issue that is likely to be passed down to the puppies and allergies is one of those. Just enjoy her.


----------



## StormyThai

So you want to cross a gun dog breed with a toy breed 

Beyond your need to widen the gene pool why these two particular breeds?
What does each breed bring to the table to help improve what is already here?


----------



## Burrowzig

Bichonfrisefamily said:


> Our Bichon Frise had an allergic reaction when she lived with a Chinese Crested Powder Puff, namely a lot of itching. A blood test at the time showed allergy to mites. When that dog left our home, the allergy disappeared. Should we refrain from breeding her?


Yes, you should refrain from breeding a dog with a health defect that can be passed to the offspring.


----------



## Rafa

Bichonfrisefamily said:


> Thank you for the guidance.
> We have thought to breed her with another breed, to widen the gene pool, for example with a lagotto. But the allergy question is the main question for us, even having considered the many good points raised in the thread.


Yes, some allergies can be passed down to the pups.

It's not a risk I would want to take.


----------



## Colette

Given that certain breeds have a high incidence of allergies, there certainly seems to be a genetic link, so breeding from a dog with allergies wouldn't be recommended. Especially given that bichons are fairly numerous, there is no need to breed from one with potential problems. 

Our first bichon suffered from extensive allergies. The result was chewing her paws until they bled, antibiotics, antihistamines, special diet, a course of expensive immunotherapy and around 2 years wearing a lampshade collar almost constantly. NOT something any dog or owner should have to go through. 

I personally would only consider a bichon suitable for breeding if they were allergy free, eye tested clear, and patella tested as a bare minimum. Testing for legg perthes and hip scoring would be preferable too.


----------



## caroleduffin

Playing devils advocate here, why do people breed puppies? Not for cash, if you read the posts on here. I only ask because my friend has recently had a litter of labradoodles from her bitch. I was surrogate minder when my friend had to leave them on the odd occasion. I was staggered at the work involved. They were 5 or 6 weeks old. I was exhausted at the end of the day! Feeding them, bringing them in from outside pen when it turned cold, cleaning up after them, putting them into spare pen to wash floor etc etc! I had had some vague thoughts about breeding gorgeous little pups and sitting watching them play. All thoughts gone! Then comes the vetting of the prospective buyers, letting them go. Definitely cured me of any romantic ideas. Why do people do it, especially a cross breed. Lovely though they are, establishing a blood line or going to Crufts doesn't come into it. So why?


----------



## Rafa

Very often, for money.


----------



## rocco33

caroleduffin said:


> Playing devils advocate here, why do people breed puppies? Not for cash, if you read the posts on here. I only ask because my friend has recently had a litter of labradoodles from her bitch. I was surrogate minder when my friend had to leave them on the odd occasion. I was staggered at the work involved. They were 5 or 6 weeks old. I was exhausted at the end of the day! Feeding them, bringing them in from outside pen when it turned cold, cleaning up after them, putting them into spare pen to wash floor etc etc! I had had some vague thoughts about breeding gorgeous little pups and sitting watching them play. All thoughts gone! Then comes the vetting of the prospective buyers, letting them go. Definitely cured me of any romantic ideas. Why do people do it, especially a cross breed. Lovely though they are, establishing a blood line or going to Crufts doesn't come into it. So why?


I have labradors but would never consider breeding a cross breed. I train, compete and work my dogs and I tend to breed when a) I need a puppy and b) I have a bitch that is of such quality (health, temperament and working ability) that it would be a shame not to keep the genes in the gene pool and c) I have a number of other people wanting a pup.

It truth, some people do breed for money and they do make money too, although often short cuts in care and health testing. Some do it purely because they want to experience having a litter of puppies and some because they think they have the most fantastic bitch and the world needs her puppies and some because they think their bitch will miss out on motherhood!

None of the above are valid reasons IMO.


----------



## Burrowzig

I bred to make my next agility dog. Kite had done really well and was a joy to live with - very calm and attentive. Most collie pups I saw in training were not as good, so it made sense to breed from her. I did all the health tests with good results, great hips and DNA clear. I found another agility dog whose owner agreed to use him as sire (also health tested), and he was a perfect complement for Kite in terms of his build, he has a lovely temperament, and was from a well known agility line. Now, the pups they had could be called crossbreeds. Kite's a Welsh Sheepdog, the sire is a working sheepdog (Border collie without KC papers). As far as agility registration goes, Welsh Sheepdogs (as an unrecognised breed) have to be registered as working sheepdogs anyway. 

All the litter went to agility homes, and I only asked for what it had cost to rear them in terms of food, vets, health tests, wormer etc and some time off work. I forgot to add in some items, so ended up with a modest financial loss but kept 2 gorgeous pups of a quality I could not have afforded to buy. I priced them as a non-profit on the basis that Kite is my best friend, not a cash cow and I wouldn't want to do anything that could be construed as exploiting her. I keep in touch with the other 4 pups.


----------



## Nurture Animal Housing

I have to declare an interest here, my company manufactures high end whelping units.

Back to the question, why do people breed? In my years of showing, breeding and latterly running welfare I personally found three types of breeder. 1. Incidental breeders- two dogs happen upon each other because their owner forgot to have them neutered and the inevitable happened. 2- Cash orientated- speaks for itself. 3- Professional breeder. All three groups contain variations but generally speaking this has held true in my experience. Whatever the scenario hold onto the thought that the puppies you produce are your responsibility for life. They never asked to be born, if you decide that they should exist, you owe them. If you can't do it right, don't bother. If you cant find a loving home, be prepared to keep them. If you cant- don't.

Our ethos is if your going to do it, do it right. We are always willing to help the less experienced and to learn from the experts.

www.nurtureanimalhousing.co.uk


----------



## Nurture Animal Housing

We are producing a series of expert articles on breeding and rearing, If they are of help I will post them here over the coming weeks.


----------



## StormyThai

Lazhar said:


> You could also read The Dog Breeder's Handbook, it is the most up-to-date dog breeding guide.
> 
> *Table of Contents*
> 
> *1 - Before You Get Started*
> - The Importance of Passion
> - Why Breeders Fail
> - Why Do You Want To Breed?
> - Full Time or Part Time?
> 
> *2 - Start Your Dog Breeding Business*
> - Choose Your Breed
> - Design Your Farm
> - Find Your Veterinary
> - Set Up Your Company
> - Business Plan (with Excel files)
> - Bookkeeping & Accounting
> 
> *3 - Breeding Stock Management*
> - Establishing Your Own Bloodline
> - Styles of Breeding
> - Breeding Plan
> - Hereditary Conditions
> - Breeding Stock
> - Mating
> - Gestation & Whelping
> - The Whelping Kit
> - Rearing the Puppies
> - Feed Your Dogs
> - Homemade Food Template Recipe
> 
> *4 - Become a Reputable Breeder*
> - The Website
> - Social Medias (with Toolbox)
> - Search Engine Optimisation
> - Pictures & Videos
> - Registering Dogs
> - Dog Shows & Competitions
> - Pet Insurance Plans
> 
> *5 - Sell Your Dogs*
> - Classified Ads
> - Message Board
> - Facebook Groups
> - The Puppy Pack
> - After Sale Follow-up


Written by someone with minimal experience and one who promotes puppy farming :Vomit


----------



## Lazhar

Well, if Breeding Business promotes puppy farm, it does a very bad job at it.


----------



## Guest

Lazhar said:


> You could also read The Dog Breeder's Handbook, it is the most up-to-date dog breeding guide.
> 
> *Table of Contents*
> 
> *1 - Before You Get Started*
> - The Importance of Passion
> - Why Breeders Fail
> - Why Do You Want To Breed?
> - Full Time or Part Time?
> 
> *2 - Start Your Dog Breeding Business*
> - Choose Your Breed
> - Design Your Farm
> - Find Your Veterinary
> - Set Up Your Company
> - Business Plan (with Excel files)
> - Bookkeeping & Accounting
> 
> *3 - Breeding Stock Management*
> - Establishing Your Own Bloodline
> - Styles of Breeding
> - Breeding Plan
> - Hereditary Conditions
> - Breeding Stock
> - Mating
> - Gestation & Whelping
> - The Whelping Kit
> - Rearing the Puppies
> - Feed Your Dogs
> - Homemade Food Template Recipe
> 
> *4 - Become a Reputable Breeder*
> - The Website
> - Social Medias (with Toolbox)
> - Search Engine Optimisation
> - Pictures & Videos
> - Registering Dogs
> - Dog Shows & Competitions
> - Pet Insurance Plans
> 
> *5 - Sell Your Dogs*
> - Classified Ads
> - Message Board
> - Facebook Groups
> - The Puppy Pack
> - After Sale Follow-up


OMG anyone who talks about breeding dogs for a living loses my vote right there! :Meh:Troll:Vomit


----------



## StormyThai

Lazhar said:


> Well, if Breeding Business promotes puppy farm, it does a very bad job at it.


Your book is all about making money from breeding...the only way to make money out of breeding is by cutting corners and having lots of litters on the ground throughout the year.

If you had even the smallest amount of experience of breeding ethically you would know that your book should have been a non starter 
The only way your book doesn't promote puppy farming/unethical breeding is if it doesn't sell, so if that is the case then I am thankful


----------



## Lazhar

Well, I disagree StormyThai. I believe 90% of responsible dog breeders are good at breeding dogs, this is it. To make a living from anything, you also need to be a good salesman, a good entrepreneur, a good marketer. And most dog breeders aren't. It is not one at the expenses of the others, it is all of them working together.


----------



## Meezey

Lazhar said:


> You could also read The Dog Breeder's Handbook, it is the most up-to-date dog breeding guide.
> 
> *Table of Contents*
> 
> *1 - Before You Get Started*
> - The Importance of Passion
> - Why Breeders Fail
> - Why Do You Want To Breed?
> - Full Time or Part Time?
> 
> *2 - Start Your Dog Breeding Business*
> - Choose Your Breed
> - Design Your Farm
> - Find Your Veterinary
> - Set Up Your Company
> - Business Plan (with Excel files)
> - Bookkeeping & Accounting
> 
> *3 - Breeding Stock Management*
> - Establishing Your Own Bloodline
> - Styles of Breeding
> - Breeding Plan
> - Hereditary Conditions
> - Breeding Stock
> - Mating
> - Gestation & Whelping
> - The Whelping Kit
> - Rearing the Puppies
> - Feed Your Dogs
> - Homemade Food Template Recipe
> 
> *4 - Become a Reputable Breeder*
> - The Website
> - Social Medias (with Toolbox)
> - Search Engine Optimisation
> - Pictures & Videos
> - Registering Dogs
> - Dog Shows & Competitions
> - Pet Insurance Plans
> 
> *5 - Sell Your Dogs*
> - Classified Ads
> - Message Board
> - Facebook Groups
> - The Puppy Pack
> - After Sale Follow-up


 don' t think people want the most up to date guide on how to be a puppy farmer, that guide should be burnt and you are getting right up my nose advertising your stuff every chance you get..


----------



## Guest

Lazhar said:


> Well, I disagree StormyThai. I believe 90% of responsible dog breeders are good at breeding dogs, this is it. To make a living from anything, you also need to be a good salesman, a good entrepreneur, a good marketer. And most dog breeders aren't. It is not one at the expenses of the others, it is all of them working together.


Are you a breeder @Lazhar ?


----------



## StormyThai

Lazhar said:


> Well, I disagree StormyThai. I believe 90% of responsible dog breeders are good at breeding dogs, this is it. To make a living from anything, you also need to be a good salesman, a good entrepreneur, a good marketer. And most dog breeders aren't. It is not one at the expenses of the others, it is all of them working together.


We have had this conversation before...you can disagree all you like, your book promotes unethical breeding...simple!


----------



## Meezey

Lazhar said:


> Well, I disagree StormyThai. I believe 90% of responsible dog breeders are good at breeding dogs, this is it. To make a living from anything, you also need to be a good salesman, a good entrepreneur, a good marketer. And most dog breeders aren't. It is not one at the expenses of the others, it is all of them working together.


and neither they should be, dogs aren't for people like YOU to make a living from..


----------



## StormyThai

Meezey said:


> don' t think people want the most up to date guide on how to be a puppy farmer, that guide should be burnt and you are getting right up my nose advertising your stuff every chance you get..


He gets a bit upset if you return the favour and spam his posts with goats tho


----------



## Guest

StormyThai said:


> He gets a bit upset if you return the favour and spam his posts with goats tho


A goat thread that I missed?! The humanity!!!


----------



## StormyThai

ouesi said:


> A goat thread that I missed?! The humanity!!!


It was on fb.
I got irritated by the constant spamming even after I and others had explained why this book was wrong, so myself and a friend spammed his thread with goat related memes hehe

We were booted from the group because he cried bully. The spammer does not like to be spammed


----------



## Meezey

ouesi said:


> Are you a breeder @Lazhar ?


Seemingly they consider themselves "amongst the top breeders of BC'S in the UK"......................They can't even provide a full 3 gen pedigree as they don't seem to know the GGrandparents of the litter they had Dec 2015 ( yes it says 2015) we ain't even there yet but they had 3 males and 2 females. The name ain't KC registered..


----------



## SingingWhippet

Meezey said:


> Seemingly they consider themselves "amongst the top breeders of BC'S in the UK"......................They can't even provide a full 3 gen pedigree as they don't seem to know the GGrandparents of the litter they had Dec 2015 ( yes it says 2015) we ain't even there yet but they had 3 males and 2 females. The name ain't KC resisted


I think that's just an demonstration website to advertise their services to breeders, not a genuine one.

Given the very basic questions about dog ownership they've been asking on a BC specific forum I highly doubt (or at least really, really hope) they've ever bred in their life.


----------



## Meezey

SingingWhippet said:


> I think that's just an demonstration website to advertise their services to breeders, not a genuine one.
> 
> Given the very basic questions about dog ownership they've been asking on a BC specific forum I highly doubt (or at least really, really hope) they've ever bred in their life.


That would explain why it's full of keek then lol


----------



## Meezey

Yeah looking else where they haven't a clue how to bring up a puppy they have purchased let alone a litter...


----------



## mbmbridge

Tanya1989 said:


> They are not reliable. Only blood progesterone tests are accurate


I agree with this 100%. You will need to go to your vet and get blood work done to see if it the correct time.


----------



## EllieTT

Burrowzig said:


> I bred to make my next agility dog. Kite had done really well and was a joy to live with - very calm and attentive. Most collie pups I saw in training were not as good, so it made sense to breed from her. I did all the health tests with good results, great hips and DNA clear. I found another agility dog whose owner agreed to use him as sire (also health tested), and he was a perfect complement for Kite in terms of his build, he has a lovely temperament, and was from a well known agility line. Now, the pups they had could be called crossbreeds. Kite's a Welsh Sheepdog, the sire is a working sheepdog (Border collie without KC papers). As far as agility registration goes, Welsh Sheepdogs (as an unrecognised breed) have to be registered as working sheepdogs anyway.
> 
> All the litter went to agility homes, and I only asked for what it had cost to rear them in terms of food, vets, health tests, wormer etc and some time off work. I forgot to add in some items, so ended up with a modest financial loss but kept 2 gorgeous pups of a quality I could not have afforded to buy. I priced them as a non-profit on the basis that Kite is my best friend, not a cash cow and I wouldn't want to do anything that could be construed as exploiting her. I keep in touch with the other 4 pups.


Can I ask what did you DNA test her? Have a BC and not sure if I should test everything available or not =)


----------



## SingingWhippet

EllieTT said:


> Can I ask what did you DNA test her? Have a BC and not sure if I should test everything available or not =)


This page lists all the currently available tests for BCs. Unless your bitch is hereditarily clear for any individual conditions then I wouldn't skip any of the DNA tests.


----------



## Burrowzig

EllieTT said:


> Can I ask what did you DNA test her? Have a BC and not sure if I should test everything available or not =)


DNA tests for CEA, TNS and CL. I used the Optigen test and went to a 20:20 clinic (20 dogs of the same breed on the same day, get a 20% discount) that was arranged to take place at one of the agility shows I was going to. Since then, there's also a new test for congenital B12 deficiency. I know someone who's got an affected dog and he'll need regular injections for life and is noticeably smaller than you'd expect for a BC of his breeding, and may also be more likely to be affected by other endocrine disorders. You can look up the disorders that Optigen tests for on their website.
I would test everything available. I was in 2 minds about bothering to test for TNS as there were no recorded cases of it in Welsh Sheepdogs at the time, but one of a litter born a few weeks before my lot were due was affected, and had to be PTS at about 10 months. TNS and CL are rare but horrific when they happen, it's not worth the risk of producing pups that might suffer such horrible illnesses and early death when you can avoid it. Tests aren't cheap, but it's investing in the future of your breed and your 'keeper'.


----------



## EllieTT

Thank you for useful replies. I agree that it's worth investing, I definitely couldn't bare to be responsible for pups death, only because I didn't test. I researched a bit and ordered the tests from AnimaLabs. Prices are lower than in Optigen. First I was a bit sceptical but than I found out from a friend that she tested her German Shepherd there for coat color and was satisfied. For now I ordered a panel that includes CL, MDR1 and TNS, and CEA and got a 10% discount for FB like.



Burrowzig said:


> Since then, there's also a new test for congenital B12 deficiency.


They have IGS for BC, I think it is the same test, if anyone has more experience pls take a look. Wasn't sure so I haven't ordered it yet. And what about Grey Collie syndrome??


----------



## Burrowzig

EllieTT said:


> Thank you for useful replies. I agree that it's worth investing, I definitely couldn't bare to be responsible for pups death, only because I didn't test. I researched a bit and ordered the tests from AnimaLabs. Prices are lower than in Optigen. First I was a bit sceptical but than I found out from a friend that she tested her German Shepherd there for coat color and was satisfied. For now I ordered a panel that includes CL, MDR1 and TNS, and CEA and got a 10% discount for FB like.
> 
> *They have IGS for BC, I think it is the same test*, if anyone has more experience pls take a look. Wasn't sure so I haven't ordered it yet. And what about Grey Collie syndrome??


Yes, it's a test for the same disease. I hadn't heard of Grey Collie syndrome before, and it wouldn't affect mine because they are not grey or merle, but Labkolin offer a test for it.


----------



## EllieTT

My BC turned out clear for everything tested, only for CEA a carrier. I'll have to be careful about that but am very happy about the results


----------



## Lazhar

There are a billion things to ask oneself before getting involved with dog breeding. You don't breed your bitch because she looks good or you want to enjoy one litter.

What has to be done is your homework: are you bringing something to the table with progenies? Has your dog something special that's worth being passed on? Is your dog cleared from medical conditions?

Most breeds of dog should not be bred until they are at least 2 years old. However there are some breeds where it is recommended to wait until the dog is 3 before breeding, letting your bitch have a couple of blank heat cycles.


----------



## Alpha vs beta

petforum said:


> If you are thinking about breeding puppies from your bitch, we have created a useful article about responsible dog breeding for you to read below which will give you all the facts :
> 
> Breeding puppies from your bitch - Pet Encyclopedia
> 
> Thanks
> Mark


That link is no longer available. Could you recommend another site to look at please


----------



## LindaK.

Hi im new here dont know if right place to ask you guys for advice please but here goes  my dog just had pups and i was thinking of keeping a girl but I was told by a friend to keep the boy for their could be problems with having 2 girls such as attacking each other and even killing each other. Please can someone explain why this can be and is there any truth in it. Thanks


----------



## Rafa

LindaK. said:


> Hi im new here dont know if right place to ask you guys for advice please but here goes  my dog just had pups and i was thinking of keeping a girl but I was told by a friend to keep the boy for their could be problems with having 2 girls such as attacking each other and even killing each other. Please can someone explain why this can be and is there any truth in it. Thanks


What Breed are they?

It is true that if two bitches decide they dislike each other, it can be worse than the same situation with a couple of males.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies

Rafa is right in that bitches can be a bit hormonal together ....and this can cause issues ....although it has to be said some get on just fine. I have five bitches (one spayed, 4 not spayed yet) and I have never had to much as a grumble even when they are in season. I have two sets of mother and daughter.

J


----------



## Siskin

I had two bitches together and never a cross word was spoken, but I think breed type can be why some bitches don't get along so well.


----------



## Burrowzig

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> Rafa is right in that bitches can be a bit hormonal together ....and this can cause issues ....although it has to be said some get on just fine. I have five bitches (one spayed, 4 not spayed yet) and I have never had to much as a grumble even when they are in season. I have two sets of mother and daughter.
> J


I have mum and 2 twin daughters; never a grumble between any of them. Mum and one of the twins are both now spayed, but I'm looking into having a litter from the other girl in a year or so. They all play together, and there have been a few mid-air crashes causing minor injuries which they have all accepted without resentment. The twin sisters have even kept each other clean when in season (yuck).
I did think of keeping one of the boy pups instead of the second girl, but the logistics of keeping him away from the other girl, and the mum before she was spayed, seemed more bother than it was worth.


----------



## SusieRainbow

I have 2 bitches , grandmother and grand-daughter. They have the odd spat mainly due to the younger one being very posessive but have both settled down since spaying. They were certainly worse when hormonal !
If I saw tension building up between them I would keep them apart for a few hours.

Incidentally why do you want to breed , what breed is your dog ?


----------



## LindaK.

Rafa said:


> What Breed are they?
> 
> It is true that if two bitches decide they dislike each other, it can be worse than the same situation with a couple of males.


Hi they are cocker spaniels


----------



## Isotonic

LindaK. said:


> Hi they are cocker spaniels


I have personally bred cocker spaniels, the mother was 2 at the time, produced 4 pups (1 male, 3 female) all of which are alive to today in perfect health. The mother frequently shows dominance over the daughter. When they are together without anyone in the room, they are very loving to each other but if your playing with the beta (daughter) and the alpha (mother) comes up to me, mum will let out a couple of warning growls to let her know that "her turn" is over. If you scold this behaviour then it really won't matter, just a few semi silent growls every now and then. Once you tell her off she will usually wag her tail and run towards you to to cuddle/apologise. There has only been one fight when the daughter didn't know her place and they both jumped into the washing basket and out of no were started to almost bite eachother. At the time they weren't sprayed, now they are and as I said above only a few little snarls when the other one wants to cuddle.


----------



## Rafa

Siskin said:


> I had two bitches together and never a cross word was spoken, but I think breed type can be why some bitches don't get along so well.


Agree.

I think it can be trickly with Terrier bitches.

I had two PRT bitches who would have fought to the death. No trigger was needed, just the sight of each other. They could never be in the same room.


----------



## Willie Mays

The article was helpful for me. Thanks for creating and sharing a useful article about responsible dog breeding


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## Willie Mays

The article was helpful for me. Thanks for creating and sharing a useful article about responsible dog breeding


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## cows573

In my opinion... don't! Unless you are willing to take responsibility and care for all the potential puppies. Many people don't seem to care whether they are responsibly raised or not. And for some people, initial price doesn't matter when abandoning them!


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## Claire_1993

The link doesn’t seem to be working?


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## GorgeousGeorge

The link is not working


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## SusieRainbow

GorgeousGeorge said:


> The link is not working


Which link ?


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## GorgeousGeorge

SusieRainbow said:


> Which link ?


The main link that was originally posted. It's not going to anything


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## SusieRainbow

GorgeousGeorge said:


> The main link that was originally posted. It's not going to anything


Well, it was posted 9 years ago so I would think pretty out of date. I'll delete it , see about finding a more up to date article , but there's still a lot of useful info.


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## GorgeousGeorge

SusieRainbow said:


> Well, it was posted 9 years ago so I would think pretty out of date. I'll delete it , see about finding a more up to date article , but there's still a lot of useful info.


Thank you very much. I was more curious than anything else. I don't own a female  have a good day


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## Qwerty789

Hi, I have a 10 year old bitch and decided we want some puppy’s out of her before she goes. Is it too dangerous for her to have puppy’s at 10 year old or will she be ok? Thanks


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## Meezey

Qwerty789 said:


> Hi, I have a 10 year old bitch and decided we want some puppy's out of her before she goes. Is it too dangerous for her to have puppy's at 10 year old or will she be ok? Thanks


Yes. Irrespective of breed 10 is too old, to much risk for bitch and puppies.


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## Qwerty789

Meezey said:


> Yes. Irrespective of breed 10 is too old, to much risk for bitch and puppies.


Ok thanks


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## Meezey

Qwerty789 said:


> Ok thanks


 Is there a reason you want to breed her now at 10?


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## Rafa

Qwerty789 said:


> Hi, I have a 10 year old bitch and decided we want some puppy's out of her before she goes. Is it too dangerous for her to have puppy's at 10 year old or will she be ok? Thanks


She is far too old.

You absolutely should not breed from her.


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## Qwerty789

I’m currently pregnant and would like a pup out of her for the the baby to grow up with


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## O2.0

Qwerty789 said:


> I'm currently pregnant and would like a pup out of her for the the baby to grow up with


Oh wow... Yeah, no. That's a terrible idea. Sorry. 
On so many levels just no. Please abandon this idea entirely!


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## Qwerty789

Oh ok, how’s that?


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## Meezey

Qwerty789 said:


> I'm currently pregnant and would like a pup out of her for the the baby to grow up with


So many reasons this is wrong  She is too old, it will be a huge change to her life having a child in it, you will have your hands full with a baby.

Have your baby and adjust to the massive changes this alone will bring to your life and give your old girl the time and support she's going to need to adjust to this major life change too. Good luck with the birth of your child


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## Qwerty789

Meezey said:


> So many reasons this is wrong  She is too old, it will be a huge change to her life having a child in it, you will have your hands full with a baby.
> 
> Have your baby and adjust to the massive changes this alone will bring to your life and give your old girl the time and support she's going to need to adjust to this major life change too. Good luck with the birth of your child


Didn't think of it that way, thanks for your help and thankyou


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## Meezey

Qwerty789 said:


> Didn't think of it that way, thanks for your help and thankyou


No problem at all. When are you due?


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## Qwerty789

8th February


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## Meezey

Qwerty789 said:


> 8th February


Awk lovely major life change for you all good luck x could end up with a Valentine's baby


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## Qwerty789

Meezey said:


> Awk lovely major life change for you all good luck x could end up with a Valentine's baby


Sure is, thankyou and I know, my birthdays 22nd feb so as long as it's before then lol x


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## Siskin

As to a ten year old dog having puppies, think of a 70 year old woman having a baby.

Let your dog have her last few years in peace


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## Qwerty789

True, we’ve come off the idea now.


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## ESA786

hi i am breeding a bitch and a male-presa Canario, who while he was mating had started bleeding
I don't know which dog it was from, possibly the bitch, is this normal?


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## AlexPed2393

ESA786 said:


> hi i am breeding a bitch and a male-presa Canario, who while he was mating had started bleeding
> I don't know which dog it was from, possibly the bitch, is this normal?





ESA786 said:


> Hi i have a pure bred Presa Canario who is 4 months old.
> He's not neutered he is black and I'm asking when I should get him into breeding.


Bleeding is never a good thing, how old are the two you are mating?


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## Sandra Delaney

Hi I have a Yorkshire Terrier she went into season over a week ago on day 8 she had like a yellowish colour instead of blood so I introduced her to the stud. They tied within minutes for 17 minutes then day 9 for 27 and day 10 32 minutes. But today is only day 11 of her heat and she’s back bleeding again and been very dominating with my other bitch. Is this all normal it’s my first time breeding thanks.


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