# Kittens returned to the breeder due to cat allergy



## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Dear breeders!

Got a new experience - something I did not expect to happen happened.
In mid-September sold my beautiful litter - all the new owners were very happy and excited. 
My kittens were very popular - probably due to good pictures taken by my husband - but still I could have placed each of them 5 times with no effort. And now this.

A young professional couple from central London, told me they both had cats before, all good.
And on Monday I am getting this email saying sheepishly that she has been suffocating for a few weeks and finally doctors said it was cat allergy. Apparently years ago she did have this problem with her cat - not that severe though - and did not bother to tell me about it. They were told by someone clever that Burmese were known as hypoallergenic. 

I went to pick up the kittens in two days - as soon as they were ready to invite me, checked the kittens, everything was fine, they obviously were treated well. I paid the people 2/3 of the price although could not determine whether it was fair or I was being mean. But they were obviously pleased with what I did, and now I am not sure what kind of problem I have landed myself into.

Luckily Agria pet insurance agreed to issue the free 5 weeks free pet insurance again - for the new owners. The kittens' mum was also very understanding - she accepted them back after 5 weeks and did not give me any grief.

Problem is that the owner of our wonderful site for breeders and kitten buyers LoveBurmese.co.uk has chosen this particular month to move abroad, so his site is temporarily not being updated. 

Now I am reduced to e-mailing potential kitten buyers whom I had refused before simply because there was not enough kittens. That will teach me! 

Anyway, not sure what to charge for them now. Considering all the costs - vet checks, second worming, food and general distress to my household - I do not want to give a huge discount. And the kittens are lovely! One of them was our most favourite from all the previous litters. 

What is usually done in such a case? Any tips, ideas?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Oh they are beautiful :Cat I bought a kitten that had been returned to her breeder - somewhat different circumstances to yours as she is an active registered breeding girl and the original buyer was concerned about a pregnant queen that she already had - She was 4 1/2 months old and I paid the same for her as if she had been 13 weeks. You can advertise through sites like Pets4homes or Kitten List or your breed club if you are a member.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> Oh they are beautiful :Cat I bought a kitten that had been returned to her breeder - somewhat different circumstances to yours as she is an active registered breeding girl and the original buyer was concerned about a pregnant queen that she already had - She was 4 1/2 months old and I paid the same for her as if she had been 13 weeks. You can advertise through sites like Pets4homes or Kitten List or your breed club if you are a member.


Thank you very much for your support.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Kotanushka said:


> Anyway, not sure what to charge for them now. Considering all the costs - vet checks, second worming, food and general distress to my household - I do not want to give a huge discount. And the kittens are lovely! One of them was our most favourite from all the previous litters.
> 
> What is usually done in such a case? Any tips, ideas?


If I had kittens returned to me that quickly I would charge the full price again. Don't be embarrassed about contacting people on your list that you told you no longer had any kittens. The owners turned out to be allergic, it happens, there is nothing wrong with the kittens themselves. I'm sure they'll soon find lovely new homes


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

No comments on what to charge or not - but just a comment re: the kittens.

They ARE lovely. I wish there was an emoticon to express their loveliness . . . .


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that. Sometimes that happens unfortunately. Those websites suggested by Lynn should help. They are only 18-20 weeks old after all so not terribly old yet. In terms of price, I'd let them go for what you refunded the couple but that's up to you of course.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

pipje said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. Sometimes that happens unfortunately. Those websites suggested by Lynn should help. They are only 18-20 weeks old after all so not terribly old yet. In terms of price, I'd let them go for what you refunded the couple but that's up to you of course.


I thought the same, than I thought that there will be advertising costs to add to that as well.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm in the UK, it costs me nothing to advertise my kittens.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

lostbear said:


> No comments on what to charge or not - but just a comment re: the kittens.
> 
> They ARE lovely. I wish there was an emoticon to express their loveliness . . . .


I second this! 
My only comment is that I am surprised that you refunded so much of the cost of the kittens, I think that is rather generous actually and would have expected the purchasers to have lost their money or just to receive a much smaller amount back.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> I'm in the UK, it costs me nothing to advertise my kittens.


In that case, I think that if you had even an ounce of integrity, you would offer both of these stunning kittens FREE to someone who would cherish, admire and totally devote herself to them; someone who is poor but has a golden heart full of soft feathery kitten-love; someone who would kiss their li'l noses and comb their pretty fur.

As it happens, I can think of just the person (*_blushes modestly_*) . . .

When would it be convenient to come round and collect them?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I think you were generous in your refund too - on the other hand I'd pay just about anything (up to full price) to get back kittens which were no longer welcome in their new home. I've only had it happen once and I was in my car and on my way to get my baby and give the new owners their money back within minutes. They proudly showed me the *thirteen* different brands of cat food they had fed him in the two weeks they'd had the kitten and were convinced he was ill when he left me because he'd developed an upset tum!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

lostbear said:


> In that case, I think that if you had even an ounce of integrity, you would offer both of these stunning kittens FREE to someone who would cherish, admire and totally devote herself to them; someone who is poor but has a golden heart full of soft feathery kitten-love; someone who would kiss their li'l noses and comb their pretty fur.
> 
> As it happens, I can think of just the person (*_blushes modestly_*) . . .
> 
> When would it be convenient to come round and collect them?


Blimey, you pushy so and so. I want the blonde one, she's mine hands off.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Siskin said:


> *Blimey, you pushy so and so.* I want the blonde one, she's mine hands off.


Shy kids get nae sweeties!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Normally when owners feel they cannot cope for whatever reason they contact the breeder for help and do not usually require any money when returning kittens.

However once I took two kittens back who were no longer welcome. They had been in their new home 6 weeks but I needed to retrieve them at all costs. I took the purchase price minus a deposit in cash with me but still had to write a cheque for more because the owners did not want to keep the food they had bought for the kittens. I thought the price of the food was very steep but gave them the cheque for £50 just to get away. When I was home I looked on the website of the firm where they had bought the food and found they had charged me twice the price. Never mind. It was peace of mind money.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

QOTN said:


> When I was home I looked on the website of the firm where they had bought the food and found they had charged me twice the price.


Cheeky sods! But as you say, it was worth it to get your kittens home.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> I'm in the UK, it costs me nothing to advertise my kittens.


Advertising is not a cost, but the vet check, worming, feeding and general distress to the family... One of my 3 queens has a week-old babies and I have to keep her locked up in her little bedroom so she does not see the newcomers. She became a right stroppy madam after getting pregnant. Am now doing my best she doesn't find out about the kittens returned. Or I would be in trouble!


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Paddypaws said:


> I second this!
> My only comment is that I am surprised that you refunded so much of the cost of the kittens, I think that is rather generous actually and would have expected the purchasers to have lost their money or just to receive a much smaller amount back.


The family in question seemed to be very happy to resolve this problem so quickly and i was afraid they might try to get their money back by selling my babies to a back yard breeder or such like irresponsible person. We could not have that, and my husband would have divorced me if it happened! He is in love with the lilac kitten.

Also the family did treat my girls well despite of the problems and they looked really guilty.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

QOTN said:


> Normally when owners feel they cannot cope for whatever reason they contact the breeder for help and do not usually require any money when returning kittens.
> 
> However once I took two kittens back who were no longer welcome. They had been in their new home 6 weeks but I needed to retrieve them at all costs. I took the purchase price minus a deposit in cash with me but still had to write a cheque for more because the owners did not want to keep the food they had bought for the kittens. I thought the price of the food was very steep but gave them the cheque for £50 just to get away. When I was home I looked on the website of the firm where they had bought the food and found they had charged me twice the price. Never mind. It was peace of mind money.


That was awful! So hard to pick the right new owners - they come all nice and sweet at the beginning, but in case of a trouble... Luckily mine were decent ones, so I did not want to be mean to them. I understand how somebody wants a kitten (puppy) so much that the reason flies out of the window and then the reality looks you into the face... The question is what you do next - pay for you mistake or try to shove responsibility onto the other person who cannot say "NO". I think breeders are really vulnerable in such a case - you cannot let your baby to be mistreated in any way, can you?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Kotanushka said:


> *Advertising is not a cost*, but the vet check, worming, feeding and general distress to the family... One of my 3 queens has a week-old babies and I have to keep her locked up in her little bedroom so she does not see the newcomers. She became a right stroppy madam after getting pregnant. Am now doing my best she doesn't find out about the kittens returned. Or I would be in trouble!


I was commenting really for @lostbear who mentioned the cost of advertising. Personally I would have refunded once I had new homes for the kittens, and only what I got for them. Do they need extra vet checks & worming because they are back? Yes here are food & litter costs, I'd swallow them, and I don't think you can really reduce the refund because it's a nuisance in terms of your family & other cats.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> I was commenting really for @lostbear who mentioned the cost of advertising. Personally I would have refunded once I had new homes for the kittens, and only what I got for them. Do they need extra vet checks & worming because they are back? Yes here are food & litter costs, I'd swallow them, and I don't think you can really reduce the refund because it's a nuisance in terms of your family & other cats.


Don't you think new owners have to take responsibility for their mistakes - in terms of money and inconvenience? Remember, they knew there was a problem of cat allergy but never mentioned it to me... Years ago when I was on the other side if I took an animal - all the problems afterwards were mine, I did not come running to the breeder asking for my money back...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

As you tell it, they had no idea they would have allergy problems after being told by that 'clever person' that Burmese are hypo allergic. I'd much rather have the kittens back and take a bit of a financial hit than have them being rehomed elsewhere without my knowledge. After all for me cat breeding is a hobby not a business, and compared to some other hobbies I have had it's quite a cheap one, and the only one which has ever provided any income whatsoever, even if it promptly gets swallowed up in stud fees, food & litter bills and vet bills.

It's also possible that her allergy has got much worse since she had cats previously, which is not her fault.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Years ago when I was on the other side if I took an animal - all the problems afterwards were mine, I did not come running to the breeder asking for my money back..._
I agree 100% in theory. In practice I'd be heartbroken if I found out someone hadn't given me the first chance to take my kitten(s) back so soon after purchase and had moved them on elsewhere.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Kotanushka said:


> Don't you think *new owners have to take responsibility for their mistakes* - *in terms of money* *and inconvenience?* Remember, they knew there was a problem of cat allergy but never mentioned it to me... Years ago when I was on the other side if I took an animal - all the problems afterwards were mine, I did not come running to the breeder asking for my money back...


I think that is rather a vain hope. I always preferred owners to contact me rather than rehome the kitten/cat themselves. That was in my contract. Sometimes I only found out years later when a new owner lost the cat through old age and contacted me for a replacement! I don't want to sound cynical but people tend to be really lovely when they want something. The difficulty of distinguishing the genuine good owners from the others was what caused me to stop breeding in the end.

Please don't let me put you off. I may just have been very gullible.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Kotanushka said:


> Dear breeders!
> 
> Got a new experience - something I did not expect to happen happened.
> In mid-September sold my beautiful litter - all the new owners were very happy and excited.
> ...


They are totally gorgeous...I don't care how allergic I was, I would not return these two! The one cat I was allergic to, of all the cats I have had, was, in fact, a Burmese. I kept her though.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Kotanushka said:


> Don't you think new owners have to take responsibility for their mistakes - in terms of money and inconvenience? Remember, they knew there was a problem of cat allergy but never mentioned it to me... Years ago when I was on the other side if I took an animal - all the problems afterwards were mine, I did not come running to the breeder asking for my money back...


I'm on your side here. If people never have to face up to their actions (and sometimes a kick in the wallet is the only thing that some of them will listen to) then they'll continue to get animals without a second thought. Trouble is, as you say, faced with the choice of paying up or letting your kittens end up god-knows-where, what can you do?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Calvine said:


> They are totally gorgeous...I don't care how allergic I was, I would not return these two! The one cat I was allergic to, of all the cats I have had, was, in fact, a Burmese. I kept her though.


I have a "sensitivity" to cats - I wouldn't call it an allergy. When we had the girls I promised the doctor* that when they died I wouldn't get more. I lied :Cat. What's a few sniffles - though if I was horribly, jelly-eyed omigodican'tbreathe allergic I might be more sensible.

Possibly.

*(Fortunately she's cat-daft herself)


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

havoc said:


> _Years ago when I was on the other side if I took an animal - all the problems afterwards were mine, I did not come running to the breeder asking for my money back..._
> I agree 100% in theory. In practice I'd be heartbroken if I found out someone hadn't given me the first chance to take my kitten(s) back so soon after purchase and had moved them on elsewhere.


I agree with you in practice. That's why I got my kittens back at the first opportunity given to me by the family in question. But in theory it does annoy me - irresponsible and selfish on their part and nobody can persuade me that "the customer is always right". This is living creatures's fate we are talking about - not some toys. Anyway thank you for your support. Now I just have to persuade new prospective buyers that there was nothing wrong with my kittens. Which already proves being a hard work.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> As you tell it, they had no idea they would have allergy problems after being told by that 'clever person' that Burmese are hypo allergic. I'd much rather have the kittens back and take a bit of a financial hit than have them being rehomed elsewhere without my knowledge. After all for me cat breeding is a hobby not a business, and compared to some other hobbies I have had it's quite a cheap one, and the only one which has ever provided any income whatsoever, even if it promptly gets swallowed up in stud fees, food & litter bills and vet bills.
> 
> It's also possible that her allergy has got much worse since she had cats previously, which is not her fault.


If they discussed the problem with other people - which she admitted they did - why exclude me (the breeder)? Because I would not have sold them my kittens. And it is not her fault? I do not think so!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Now I just have to persuade new prospective buyers that there was nothing wrong with my kittens. Which already proves being a hard work_
I'd start from scratch rather than contacting anyone you've already had to turn away. Nobody likes to feel they're second choice.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

havoc said:


> _Now I just have to persuade new prospective buyers that there was nothing wrong with my kittens. Which already proves being a hard work_
> I'd start from scratch rather than contacting anyone you've already had to turn away. Nobody likes to feel they're second choice.


What happened was this lady who wanted this exact pair of kittens in summer contacted me herself (I could not find her particular email address although I did approach some other people) having found me on Pets4homes.
Anyway, this lady was bombarding me with questions and after I have answered them all she disappeared. Now I advertise on the Club site as LoveBurmese is still not being updated. I suspect this is just the beginning of my problems. Might end up with two more cats in my household...


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

The right home always comes along eventually. These kittens aren't so old - you could easily have held onto them for evaluation for breeding. I've held kittens until around the 18-20 week mark and they still find homes as normal.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

havoc said:


> _Now I just have to persuade new prospective buyers that there was nothing wrong with my kittens. Which already proves being a hard work_
> I'd start from scratch rather than contacting anyone you've already had to turn away. Nobody likes to feel they're second choice.


Can I just add a viewpoint from a non-breeder? 

I have mogs, but if by some bizarre twist of fate I was ever in the market for a pedigree and had been turned down for a particular litter simply because there were not enough kits in the litter to go around, then if you were a breeder I had been seriously interested (and I hadn't been blessed enough to have already homed another kitten) I would be over the moon to be re-contacted if a kitten had been returned due to unforeseen allergies in the original owners.  Might depend on how I'd been turned down, of course, but as far as I would be concerned, that's what waiting lists are for, right? So no-one needs to feel second choice in that scenario, surely?


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

For me the situation you describe is part of being a breeder - I had a kitten returned last year after a similar amount of time - I paid nearly the full amount to have hervback although they probably would have taken less. I then let her go again a couple of weeks later with her brother who had stayed longer anyway for a nominal fee. Some would say my loss but a year on they are devoted to each other and their owner adores them. I was just glad the kitten came back to me rather than appearing on pets4homes.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_So no-one needs to feel second choice in that scenario, surely?_
Maybe they don't need to feel that way but some do, maybe it's compounded by the feeling of lack of choice ie they're being offered what's left or what nobody else wanted. It can depend on what stage of the 'looking' process a particular buyer is at. If they haven't been looking for long or the breed is numerous they don't realise kittens aren't kept in stock in a warehouse


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

havoc said:


> Maybe they don't need to feel that way but some do, maybe it's compounded by the feeling of lack of choice ie they're being offered what's left or what nobody else wanted. It can depend on what stage of the 'looking' process a particular buyer is at. If they haven't been looking for long or the breed is numerous they don't realise kittens aren't kept in stock in a warehouse


Well, if I were a breeder and got that kind of response, I'd be grateful to them for alerting me to the fact they aren't the kind of owners I was looking for


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

They may be lovely and they may not. The biggest danger in offering kittens in this 'second chance' scenario is that the breeder is unlikely to have met them yet and it's much more difficult to turn them down if they do happen to be unsuitable when you've contacted them to offer them kittens which are suddenly available again. Much easier to start from scratch with all the normal caveats in place or, as Wicket did, see the kitten into a home which is already known to you or to another breeder. My returned kitten went where a buyer had wanted two but the breeder (known to me) only had one left.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

havoc said:


> They may be lovely and they may not. The biggest danger in offering kittens in this 'second chance' scenario is that the breeder is unlikely to have met them yet and it's much more difficult to turn them down if they do happen to be unsuitable when you've contacted them to offer them kittens which are suddenly available again. Much easier to start from scratch with all the normal caveats in place.


Well, I'm not going to argue the complexities, I was only saying how I personally would feel


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Well, I'm not going to argue the complexities_
Just pointing out that they exist  There's one I haven't mentioned - you do get extra attached and protective over a kitten which has been 'rejected'. The result can be that you become even more picky about any prospective new owner, they have to be extra special because this kitten has become extra special to the breeder. I'm not saying it's at all rational, just that it happens.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

havoc said:


> _Well, I'm not going to argue the complexities_
> Just pointing out that they exist  There's one I haven't mentioned - you do get extra attached and protective over a kitten which has been 'rejected'. The result can be that you become even more picky about any prospective new owner, they have to be extra special because this kitten has become extra special to the breeder. I'm not saying it's at all rational, just that it happens.


Absolutely true. The lilac girl was my favourite anyway so honestly part of me (and my husband as well!) was glad to have her back. Ridiculous as it may sound. We have already 3 lilac girls. And the blue one now seems to me much lovelier than before.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

QOTN said:


> Normally when owners feel they cannot cope for whatever reason they contact the breeder for help and do not usually require any money when returning kittens.
> 
> However once I took two kittens back who were no longer welcome. They had been in their new home 6 weeks but I needed to retrieve them at all costs. I took the purchase price minus a deposit in cash with me but still had to write a cheque for more because the owners did not want to keep the food they had bought for the kittens. I thought the price of the food was very steep but gave them the cheque for £50 just to get away. When I was home I looked on the website of the firm where they had bought the food and found they had charged me twice the price. Never mind. It was peace of mind money.


And some people say breeders don't care about their kittens!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

havoc said:


> _Well, I'm not going to argue the complexities_
> Just pointing out that they exist  There's one I haven't mentioned - you do get extra attached and protective over a kitten which has been 'rejected'. The result can be that* you become even more picky about any prospective new owner*,* they have to be extra special because this kitten has become extra special to the breeder.* I'm not saying it's at all rational, just that it happens.


And of course, you don't want to risk them coming back again, or (worse!) being sold on because it is so horribly disruptive for the kittens. You want their home and their people to be the right ones so that they have stability and security.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Shoshannah said:


> And some people say breeders don't care about their kittens!


There are different people and different breeders. I just saw an ad on Pets4homes: someone is looking for a "pedigree" stud for a 6 months old female Burmese. Apparently she is quite ready for breeding. They probably have dollar signs in their eyes already - backyard breeders. What do they care about?


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Oh of course, there are plenty of speaking appalling breeders. I have fallen out of agreement with some people before who believe all breeders are the same: only care about the money, pimping out animals for their own gain etc. It's not a view I share.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Just to let you know that both kittens were successfully placed. 
People who got them did not care that they were 4.5 months old, only happy that the kittens were available straight away.

Thank you everybody for your support.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Excellent news - wishing them all the best in their new homes


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Thank you!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Lucky new owners! Did the kittens go together?


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Paddypaws said:


> Lucky new owners! Did the kittens go together?


No, we had to split them. But this is for the best: one of them (our favourite!) was a little smaller and kind of intimidated by the more robust sister. Now she will be the lady of the house. She was picked by a lady who works from home and her children are not too small. She also intends to get another kitten later (cannot afford both at once). By this time my precious baby would grow up and become the boss.
The second one went to a retired couple in rural Kent with a huge garden. They are lovely and they had Burmese all their lives. 
I am pleased for my little girls. 
My husband and I are going to miss them tonight! 
But you cannot have your cake and eat it!


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## Bilai (Jun 3, 2015)

Aww glad to hear this working out


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