# Crufts: Live



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Just getting the thread up nice & early for you early birds tuning in tomorrow morning 

I really enjoyed the discussions we had going on last year during the live streams, especially during group judging, so looking forward to seeing what comes of it this year.

Link to the live stream - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqEobfdxKqbf7X-cUh9Ul0Q

And good luck to all those showing/participating at Crufts. Keep us updated!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Thanks for making this thread, and including the link :Happy

Looking forward to doing as little as possible for the next four days other than watching the live stream and nattering on here :Joyful


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> Thanks for making this thread, and including the link :Happy
> 
> Looking forward to doing as little as possible for the next four days other than watching the live stream and nattering on here :Joyful


Same here! Although I'll be at Crufts myself on Saturday.


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Ooh I didn't know there was a live stream! 
I've set all the TV ones to record but this just makes it a bit better. Thanks for sharing  
My wifi at home is now back too, perfect timing! I still have this weekend off as if booked it off to go so I'll be glued to the live stream & seeing what online bargains I can find instead


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2016)

There isn't a live stream it won't work for some reason. Was looking forward to it too.


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

danielled said:


> There isn't a live stream it won't work for some reason. Was looking forward to it too.


Live stream starts at 8:45


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

JenSteWillow said:


> Ooh I didn't know there was a live stream!
> I've set all the TV ones to record but this just makes it a bit better. Thanks for sharing
> My wifi at home is now back too, perfect timing! I still have this weekend off as if booked it off to go so I'll be glued to the live stream & seeing what online bargains I can find instead


Sea treats have a message on FB saying online offers this weekend too so for those who can't go def worth a look!


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2016)

Dimwit said:


> Live stream starts at 8:45


Oh that explains it then thanks. For some reason it didn't tell me.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm working until 4 and then have to walk the dogs etc so no live streaming for me  I'll have to watch the highlights on tele.

But I'm there Saturday


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

I wish they live streamed like westminster does and has a camera on every ring but they dont have as many as us


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Signing in!!

I'm currently streaming the live feed to the TV and keeping everything crossed that Fitz doesn't start barking at the dogs


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

This is the schedule for the live stream today:



> 0845-0930: Agility - Kennel Club Novice Cup Final (Jumping)
> 0935-1015: Agility - Kennel Club British Open Final (Jumping)
> 1020-1100: Agility - Crufts Team - Large Final
> 1105-1125: East Anglian Staffordshire Bull Terrier Display Team
> ...


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks for the link


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Zem is _loving_ watching the agility  And I hate to speak too soon but Fitz is also watching and isn't barking, even though there's BCs everywhere, hurrah!!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

didn't know there was a live link that's brillant as I am not going this year,


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Wont get time to watch this year - at work the next two days and while its fine to check messages, have a quick look round the forums while i have a cuppa, think it would be taking the micky if i sat watching tv all day lol 

Must set TV to record ......


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## quagga (Jun 11, 2014)

I'm watching (should really be cutting 1500 words from my dissertation) and awwwwwwwww staffies


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

I booked the four days as holiday, so besides tomorrow when I'll be there, I'm sitting around in my jammies watching the whole thing 

The agility relay was brutal earlier, seemed like a really difficult course and some suuuuper excited dogs raring to go!


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Aw love the housework collie!!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Loving the freestyle comp


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm so jealous! I hope I can watch it on catch up when I get home


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

A Beagle doing freestyle! Lovely to see


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

its brilliant, sat at home drinking tea watching it,


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I've just got back from walking my lot and caught the beagle, I'm not massively into the HTM but it's always nice to see a variety of breeds doing stuff like this.

Nothing to do now until I get a phone call asking me to pick my car up from the garage. I'm desperately hoping they'll ring in enough time for me to get the car and nip to the supermarket before the group judging.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I am watching it and would never have known, so thank you very much


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2016)

That beagle was cute.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

So annoying I can't watch it... god damn full time working :'(


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I love the small agility, that little poodle was FAB


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Hanwombat said:


> So annoying I can't watch it... god damn full time working :'(


You might be able to catch the group judging? I could never watch that part on TV nowadays as it's so edited and quick and I like to watch in detail.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> You might be able to catch the group judging? I could never watch that part on TV nowadays as it's so edited and quick and I like to watch in detail.


I think its on 6 and 7pm ? I will be out with doggies / getting the house clean around that time  I'll have to watch it on more4... smooth collies are on more4 tonight  briefly if anyone is interested


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Hanwombat said:


> I think its on 6 and 7pm ? I will be out with doggies / getting the house clean around that time  I'll have to watch it on more4... smooth collies are on more4 tonight  briefly if anyone is interested


I only have catch up telly, so More4 it is for me


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

I'm sitting at work unable to watch agility at the moment


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Hanwombat said:


> I think its on 6 and 7pm ? I will be out with doggies / getting the house clean around that time  I'll have to watch it on more4... smooth collies are on more4 tonight  briefly if anyone is interested


Yeah, around that time I think, but they usually go on forever! Cool, what's the segment on Smooths?


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Yeah, around that time I think, but they usually go on forever! Cool, what's the segment on Smooths?


I think its a segment on vulnerable breeds, so imagine they'll be other breeds on there too.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Hanwombat said:


> I think its a segment on vulnerable breeds, so imagine they'll be other breeds on there too.


Ah cool. Maybe I'll tune in for this bit then if I can


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

MrRustyRead said:


> I wish they live streamed like westminster does and has a camera on every ring but they dont have as many as us


I think it's a bit weird that most of the live streaming is of the agility/flyball/displays when Crufts/KC is a dog show!


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## Katalyst (Aug 11, 2015)

I am going tomorrow and saturday. I have wanted to go for years so I feel like a kid at christmas. 
Any tips for a Crufts first timer? Anything especially worth looking out for?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I wouldn't mind watching some of the showing, especially on gundog day. Pity there's not that option.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

It would be nice if they increased the live streaming to include the showing. I know Westminster is much smaller so it's not as much of a logistical challenge but I did really like their set up for streaming the breed rings.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

They clearly need a proper video ref for the flyball :Hilarious


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

36 breed rings is just too many to show from all and if they only show some then it's not fair.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Flyball on mute here as it will set Missy off!

I'd like to see coverage of some of the breed rings too, but not sure how they'd incorporate that on the stream as there are just to many rings.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

sharloid said:


> I think it's a bit weird that most of the live streaming is of the agility/flyball/displays when Crufts/KC is a dog show!


i spose there isnt much else they can live stream, isnt much space around the rings for cameras ha


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Utility group judging starting!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I've managed to dash out, retrieve the car and do a whirlwind trip through the supermarket.

I'm now safely ensconced on my sofa, covered in whippets, and all ready for the group judging


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> I've managed to dash out, retrieve the car and do a whirlwind trip through the supermarket.
> 
> I'm now safely ensconced on my sofa, covered in whippets, and all ready for the group judging


Yep, I've fed and walked the pooches, had dinner, and am settled now


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Like the Dally and the standard poodle out of the group


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The Canaan dog is rather nice.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Dal caught my eye too, but just watching the Canaan dog and it did look very nice too, moved well.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Home ..... dog walked ...... is it too early to put my PJs on & not move again tonight!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

That dally has such a lovely face, nice mover as well.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Lilylass said:


> Home ..... dog walked ...... is it too early to put my PJs on & not move again tonight!


Not at all


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I had a fleeting look at Eurasiers during my search before Cash.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Frenchie looked a little to chunky for my liking


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Not enough nostril for my tastes either. It had some, which is better than some, but still........ Such a huge difference when you compare them to "normal" nostrils.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The Akita Inu has such an expressive face & ears.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> Frenchie looked a little to chunky for my liking


He is isn't he, right little lump tbh


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Koiker looked a little nervous, bless her.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The Kooikerhondje doesn't look terribly sure about the whole thing.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> The Kooikerhondje doesn't look terribly sure about the whole thing.


You were brave enough to type out the full name! haha


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Love that standard!!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Sweet little dogs kookies, always like them. Pity they are so difficult to get hold of


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes he moved so beautifully. They always do, the Poodles.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The schipperke is rather nice as well.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Wow, the Shar Pei is not bad at all.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Im watching it on more4. Ive only just sat down from work and walking dogs and havent got time to livestream.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Damn I missed the Shar Pei! Liked the Schipp though.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm shocked she didn't pull the standard poodle out


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dally or schipperke for me I think out of this shortlist.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> Dally or schipperke for me I think out of this shortlist.


Same here!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Ok, my pick would be dally, schipp, toy poodle, German spitz klein.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I didn't call any of those winners! lol. Goes to show how much I know


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The expression on the shiba :Joyful


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

SingingWhippet said:


> The Kooikerhondje doesn't look terribly sure about the whole thing.


Darn it. Forgot the Kooikerhondjes had been moved to the utility group. I was hoping to see them tomorrow.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> I didn't call any of those winners! lol. Goes to show how much I know


I did . Loved that little German Spitz bitch, I bet the owners are thrilled with her.

The Shar Pei was gorgeous and really shocked she didn't pull that Standard


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Lhasa Apsos always look so haughty and proud, and I love 'em for it


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

SingingWhippet said:


> Wow, the Shar Pei is not bad at all.


The best I've ever seen at Crufts. The legs were perfect with no sagging of the hind hocks. Beautiful dog!

Loved the Dali, very smart and maybe 'cos I'm biased the Tibetan Spaniel, one of my favourite breeds


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Oh I have such a soft spot for Griffons.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm not normally particularly taken with them but I rather like that affenpinscher.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The smooth coat Chi looks very nice to me, nice outline.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The judge getting the dog's faces like that must be quite intimidating for some dogs? I know my Cash would feel uncomfortable with her getting that close. Although it's nice to see a judge interacting beyond just getting their hands on them.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The little crestie is a bit spooked, poor thing.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

In contrast, that coton is having a whale of a time :Joyful


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Oh, I _like_ that ETT!!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I do like the little English Toy terrier. Very smart.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

That iggie has such a wonderful head, nice mover as well.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Beautiful and dainty little Italian Greyhound.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Aww, the Japanese Chin is adorable! But moved terribly. Was he lame?


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I love that the Havanese is so chilled out it's having a rest in the background!!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I like the lowchen, he's raring to go!!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Missy looked like a Lowchen after her surgery, bless her.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Aww, the Japanese Chin is adorable! But moved terribly. Was he lame?


There was something odd going on with the hind legs, wasn't there? Almost looked as if he was tripping over his own furnishings or something.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Love the outline of the min pin.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Very sweet little papillon as well.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I feel sorry for Pekes tbh


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> There was something odd going on with the hind legs, wasn't there? Almost looked as if he was tripping over his own furnishings or something.


Yes, and acting similar to my lot when they have something caught in their paws.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> I feel sorry for Pekes tbh


Same, they just never seem to improve.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Didn't think the pug was bad at all.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yay, go little smooth coat Chi & ETT!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Ok, iggie, ETT, griffon and havanese for me I think.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Oh god......


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Oh no... 

I really am not a Pekingnese fan.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Oh god......


My thoughts exactly


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Wasn't the BiS winning Peke some years ago called Eric too?


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Wasn't the BiS winning Peke some years ago called Eric too?


Pretty sure it's the same one, isn't it? I'm sure I recognise the name.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

SingingWhippet said:


> Pretty sure it's the same one, isn't it? I'm sure I recognise the name.


Same affix and breeder but not the same dog I don't think.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Well, both winners tonight are not my cup of tea. Onwards & upwards lol.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> Pretty sure it's the same one, isn't it? I'm sure I recognise the name.


You can't win again can you?


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> You can't win again can you?


I've no idea!! Just had a quick look and I must recognise him from getting reserve best of group in 2014.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Oh, and he was fourth in the group last year as well.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

This year might be his year then!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> This year might be his year then!


Seems really mean to say it but I hope not


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> Seems really mean to say it but I hope not


I know what you mean


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I shouldn't sit watching ..... Been sat looking at chow chows *closes random pages down!*


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh my - affenpinscher ........ Looks like @Doggiedelight little Penny !!


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Wasn't the BiS winning Peke some years ago called Eric too?


Just watching it now. previous Peke winner was this Erics grandfather


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Here's the live stream for tomorrow.

And here's the schedule:



> 0845: Agility - Crufts Large Novice and Medium ABC Final (Jumping)
> 0925: Agility - Crufts Singles Heat - S/M/L (Jumping)
> 1020: Agility - Crufts Team - Medium Final
> 1105: Trailrunners
> ...


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Pekingnese......really?? 

Not blown away by the Utility winner either, I liked the Chow.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Will be watching Philippa Williams. She does a good gundog display. Then the gundogs. Yay.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Can't believe they chose the Peke!! and the German Spitz was nice but there were other better looking dogs in that class I think.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Very disappointed in the toy group winner - it's when this happens credibility is given to BYB's etc. Really can't understand how a dog that can barely walk and breath has won the group 
Felt a lot of the toy breeds looked nervous and I would question their temperament.
Thought the Havernese would of been better placed as 1st rather than the Peke

Also the TV programme made my blood boil a few times - the way they spoke about rescues! All have issues - err no I had the most relaxed, accepting and laid back rescue girl!!
And the way they spoke about crossbreeds, no diplomacy all they would of done is wind up any crossbreed owners, could of been presented much better.

On the otherhand Ludo just loves the agility this morning 
No Barking at the TV (which he normally does) just complete fascination


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Yes I didn't like how when they were talking about designer breeds they were saying get a pedigree OR there are plenty of pedigrees in rescues... there are also lot's of lovely crossbreeds in rescues as well.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

SingingWhippet said:


> The Canaan dog is rather nice.


Oh my. I just Googled it, what a stunner!


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

I was rooting for the greyhound and the toy terrier, the Peke did nothing for me....The Schnauzer, Olly today was just awesome bless him ;o)........Steve


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Fleur said:


> Very disappointed in the toy group winner - it's when this happens credibility is given to BYB's etc. Really can't understand how a dog that can barely walk and breath has won the group
> Felt a lot of the toy breeds looked nervous and I would question their temperament.
> Thought the Havernese would of been better placed as 1st rather than the Peke]


Yup it looked like it was really struggling to breathe when moving - surely shouldn't have needed its tongue hanging out / be that out of breath from that short 'work out'!

Didn't see the whole class but the Crestie certainly looked very uncomfortable when the judge was looking over him/her and I frankly questioned how on earth it had got to that level if it wasn't comfortable being handled by lots of different people.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Lilylass said:


> Yup it looked like it was really struggling to breathe when moving - surely shouldn't have needed its tongue hanging out / be that out of breath from that short 'work out'!
> 
> Didn't see the whole class but the Crestie certainly looked very uncomfortable when the judge was looking over him/her and I frankly questioned how on earth it had got to that level if it wasn't comfortable being handled by lots of different people.


I've always looked forward to the toy group, my favourite group, I have a real soft spot for the little ones especially those that have been specifically bred so their only "job" is to be a companion.
But I was really disappointed this year - there were several that seemed very relaxed and spritely but too many looked very uncomfortable.
Would love a more traditional Peke from years ago - but not a breed I could bear to even consider now.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I didn't watch the TV coverage, so didn't hear them talk about crossbreeds or rescues, but doesn't sound very good 

As for the Peke, he actually refused to walk further at one point and the owner turned around and walked him at a shorter distance. Then he lifts him once he was picked in the final line up. I don't know, but to me that's not really promoting a healthy breed. I noticed his tongue was curled to the roof of his mouth, which I know my Missy does in particular when she's really, really, hot or over exerted herself.

As for some in the Toy group looking uncomfortable, I'd agree, but I think the judge didn't help there.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> As for the Peke, he actually refused to walk further at one point and the owner turned around and walked him at a shorter distance. Then he lifts him once he was picked in the final line up. I don't know, but to me that's not really promoting a healthy breed.


I was thinking the same. The pekes are always lifted and carried as soon as the handler can get away with it. If they can't even cope with the movement required in the show ring they shouldn't be there.

I also agree with the judge not helping the toys be comfortable. It's nice to see a judge interacting with the dogs before going over them but I'm not sure looming right up into their faces is really the best way to do that. On top of that the main ring at Crufts is _hugely_ different to anything many of them will have experienced before so I'm not surprised some of them are a bit freaked out by the lights, the noise and the sheer number of people there.


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## StrawberryBlonde (May 27, 2015)

I cant believe the Pekingese won. 
When I saw it I felt so bad for it, not the picture of health or happiness IMO (the chinese crested & italian greyhound looked unsure too). So many people hate Crufts & I feel like when something like a Pekingese wins BoG, it does makes Crufts & KC look bad & gives these people ammunition to say "Look, theres a dog suffering & its Crufts fault!" :Arghh


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

If the Peke ends up winning BIS then its wrong in so many ways and Crufts will majorly go down in my opinion.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Lovely to watch that 12 year old vizsla in the ABC agility, they were amazing!!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

SingingWhippet said:


> Lovely to watch that 12 year old vizsla in the ABC agility, they were amazing!!


Stunning weren't they!!
Enjoyed the agility this morning, caught a bit of the heel to Music and now watching the flyball.
Ludo freaked out during the HtM as he doesn't like umbrellas, started Barking at the TV.
Sadly working all weekend so will be only watching the C4 coverage for Saturday and Sunday.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Nice to see a whippet in the flyball 

Zem has absolutely loved watching the flyball (although right now he's utterly entranced by the HTM winner, bless him), starting to wonder if he might like to have a go......


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## XemzX (Dec 23, 2013)

Fleur said:


> Very disappointed in the toy group winner - it's when this happens credibility is given to BYB's etc. Really can't understand how a dog that can barely walk and breath has won the group
> Felt a lot of the toy breeds looked nervous and I would question their temperament.
> Thought the Havernese would of been better placed as 1st rather than the Peke
> 
> ...


I haven't been watching much live but watched it on tv and I too didn't like how they spoke of rescues. He was pretty much implying they all need experienced dog owners. We took on a rescue as our first dog and he has been the most sweet natured, easy boy. 
And the part when they were talking about the crossbreeds annoyed me too. When she said with a crossbreed you dont know what you are getting - well surely if you get a labradoodle you will know it will be either like a lab or poodle or a mix of both! 
I should stop watching this thread - I keep getting spoilers!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Been busy all day so only just tuned into the live feed. May have to catch up on TV tonight, although will watch the group judging on live feed. Got loads to do tonight yet ready for tomorrow when i'll be there!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Just had a quick look at the Toy group judging on YouTube. The judge seemed to scare a number of the dogs, I think word must have gone round the ring amongst the dogs, they were all apprehensive. I was appalled by the peke, he seemed to be in a state of exhaustion. All those little dogs briskly being trotted round and the poor little peke just about made it. I can hardly believe he won the group, dreadful


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Siskin, are you watching Phillipa Williams?


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I love watching her displays (so does Fitz apparently!!), they're always so funny :Joyful


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> Siskin, are you watching Phillipa Williams?


Oh yesssssss. Brilliant.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Vulnerable breeds demo now.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> I love watching her displays (so does Fitz apparently!!), they're always so funny :Joyful





Siskin said:


> Oh yesssssss. Brilliant.


Yes she makes it very entertaining, doesn't she?


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

@Hanwombat the Smooth is on!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I know that IRWS!!!


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

She's the same in RL. I met her about ten years ago when she lived Gloucestershire way and ran training classes. I took my last goldie to agility she was ran in the summer months. My good friend who owns Munsterlanders use to help out at her training classes. Phillippa bred working goldies and the dogs were so obedient, but still full of life and joyful, but one word and they went off to lie quietly until they were required. They were great in helping Jodi get over her poor opinion of other dogs as they were so relaxed and calm, lovely dogs.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I really, _really_ like the ETT. Lovely looking little things.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Woohoo!! Go Anita and Summer!!


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

That Irish Red and White is stunning - definitely on my one day list!


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> @Hanwombat the Smooth is on!


I missed it wahhhh it was trevor hayward showing


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

That Clumber looked a lot better than many have in recent years.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Aww its foxearth flintab! Beautiful blue merle  well done to gordon setter. Was lovely


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Hurrah, the gordie got it, thought he was lovely. And the corgi a worthy second, good looking dog


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

SingingWhippet said:


> That Clumber looked a lot better than many have in recent years.


I agree, not so large and saggy as some I've seen, eyes not so droopy either


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Siskin said:


> And the corgi a worthy second, good looking dog


Bouncy little thing too :Joyful


----------



## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

I felt they were a bit patronising about the rescues.


----------



## Papirats (Mar 26, 2014)

SingingWhippet said:


> Bouncy little thing too :Joyful


Ohh, Pem or Cardi?


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Papirats said:


> Ohh, Pem or Cardi?


Cardigan, it was in the Vulnerable Native Breeds competition.


----------



## Papirats (Mar 26, 2014)

Aww lovely, go Cardi! Haven't managed to catch any of the livestream yet as I've been at Crufts most of the day watching the HTM (my trainer took 3rd yayy).


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I think on the whole the dogs are tending to be in better shape this year, there seem to be far fewer really overweight ones.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Hanwombat said:


> Aww its foxearth flintab! Beautiful blue merle  well done to gordon setter. Was lovely


Is he related to your Bigby at all?


----------



## Papirats (Mar 26, 2014)

Sorry to keep asking you lot for placings, where did the Smooth Collie place? My trainer's Smooth Collie is also a Foxearth


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

That pointer is in _cracking_ nick.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I really liked the Pointer too, even though Frank Kane has just said he's not showing that well.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

That "heaviest of the retrievers" looks lighter than the lab.......


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Papirats said:


> Sorry to keep asking you lot for placings, where did the Smooth Collie place? My trainer's Smooth Collie is also a Foxearth


I'm not sure, I missed it in the end as I was feeding the dogs.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Aww I do love that Flattie from last year. Such character.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> That "heaviest of the retrievers" looks lighter than the lab.......


Lab looks better than some I've seen other years though. At least has some kind of a tuck


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The Clumber isn't as nice as I thought when it first came into the ring but still, not too bad compared to some.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I might have just sniggered at "cocking spaniels" :Joyful


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Field Spaniel looks lovely. I wonder why they're not more popular?


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I love how many of the gundogs seem so chuffed to be there


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Noooooooo!! Disappointed she didn't pull in the IRWS.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Is he related to your Bigby at all?


Same great and great great grandparents  

http://www.smooth-collie.net/view.php?id=8829
http://www.smooth-collie.net/view.php?id=12328


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Rooting for that little Lagotto now I think, such a characterful little thing.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Hanwombat said:


> Same great and great great grandparents
> 
> http://www.smooth-collie.net/view.php?id=8829
> http://www.smooth-collie.net/view.php?id=12328


Oh that's cool!! So, that makes him what to Bigby? Or is that to confusing? :Hilarious


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Papirats said:


> Sorry to keep asking you lot for placings, where did the Smooth Collie place? My trainer's Smooth Collie is also a Foxearth


The smooth was short listed but not placed


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I love the Irish Setter personally, but do like that Flattie too, although would be nice for something else to win.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I rather like the GWP as well.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Oh that's cool!! So, that makes him what to Bigby? Or is that to confusing? :Hilarious


Long distance cousin? lol I have no idea


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Yay for the Lagotto!!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Successful night for that Gordon then! Wow.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Hanwombat said:


> Long distance cousin? lol I have no idea


Haha. Hope Bigby was cheering him on


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Successful night for that Gordon then! Wow.


My thoughts as well - adored the Flat Coat as well.

Right I shall be there tomorrow and Sunday


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> My thoughts as well - adored the Flat Coat as well.
> 
> Right I shall be there tomorrow and Sunday


I'll be there tomorrow too!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Ok, I know she's not the most popular on this forum, or Crufts thread at that, but what do you all make of this by JH?

http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/exclusive-crufts-winner-bert-easdon.html

If true, then surely they're a glorified puppy farm?


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Ok, I know she's not the most popular on this forum, or Crufts thread at that, but what do you all make of this by JH?
> 
> http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/exclusive-crufts-winner-bert-easdon.html
> 
> If true, then surely they're a glorified puppy farm?


Jesus  If I am honest I have never liked the Yakee kennel myself nor do I particular like his dogs but never thought this was on his agenda


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> Jesus  If I am honest I have never liked the Yakee kennel myself nor do I particular like his dogs but never thought this was on his agenda


Nor me. I'd have found it very hard to believe, as in general you don't associate those showing at Crufts level continually to be breeding crossbreeds, let alone the numbers they're producing. It's very concerning.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Nor me. I'd have found it very hard to believe, as in general you don't associate those showing at Crufts level continually to be breeding crossbreeds, let alone the numbers they're producing. It's very concerning.


It has well and truly baffled me. Like you said, he's nothing more than a glorified puppy farmer :Facepalm I'm just praying his Peke doesn't win BIS, can you imagine the yarn he'll spin considering its a male? The poor thing will be bred to anything with four legs by the sounds of it at his kennel!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Didn't watch the TV coverage, but in another post JH says that Bert admitted none of his 'top winning' show dogs lived in the house either....


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> It has well and truly baffled me. Like you said, he's nothing more than a glorified puppy farmer :Facepalm I'm just praying his Peke doesn't win BIS, can you imagine the yarn he'll spin considering its a male? The poor thing will be bred to anything with four legs by the sounds of it at his kennel!


He's already sired 59 puppies apparently.....


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I wish I could say I'm shocked but to be honest I'm not. If someone is unethical enough to breed dogs like that peke it doesn't surprise me that they're happy to churn out puppies to make some cash either.

Of course this will all reflect terribly badly on the KC, Crufts and the show scene in general, especially if (God forbid.....) the peke wins BiS.

It's such a shame as there have been a lot of high profile breeds which have actually looked good this year. None of that is going to matter though when dogs like that peke aren't penalised for being incapable of even walking across the ring.


----------



## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Happy with tonight, I do like that Gordon


----------



## XemzX (Dec 23, 2013)

Yikes! Well I do hope the peke doesn't win! 
Completely unrelated to crufts but I saw this article and look at the peke in the pic - http://iheartdogs.com/10-oldest-dog-breeds/6/ a much healthier looking dog imo.  
I'm very jealous of all who have or plan to visit crufts this year.


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Has anyone found a video of the native breed judging? I can't find it on YouTube not sure if it exists but I missed it live.

The Peke breeder sounds awful  I thought breeders who registered their pups with the KC weren't supposed to also breed crosses - or have I imagined that.


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> Ok, I know she's not the most popular on this forum, or Crufts thread at that, but what do you all make of this by JH?
> 
> http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/exclusive-crufts-winner-bert-easdon.html
> 
> If true, then surely they're a glorified puppy farm?


Wrong on so many levels!


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

SingingWhippet said:


> That "heaviest of the retrievers" looks lighter than the lab.......


Frustrates me that the lab that wins bib (every year!) Is always overweight

No wonder there are so many around that are if that's how people think they should look!

Mine is a show lab but she is fit & trim & has visible definition if ribs / waist (& a saggy tum but that's down to having had pups)


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Does seem very hypocritical of the TV coverage last night slating the breeding of crossbreeds, yet their group winner does just that.......wonder what they'd have to say about his breeding activities?


----------



## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

Dexter got third out of fifteen!

My puppy's dad was BOB!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Really nice to see a rottie doing rally in the activities display


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The live feed for today.

Schedule:



> 0830: International Junior Handling Competition
> 1030: Crufts - International Invitation - Large - Jumping
> 1110: Agility - Crufts Team - Small Final
> 1210: Dog Activities Display
> ...



I'm off out for tea at my parents' this evening so I'll probably miss the working group but I'm hoping we'll be back and sorted in time for the pastoral.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

A friend of a friend came 3rd in the Post Graduate Sibe group. Amy idea if groups like this end up on YouTube?


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> A friend of a friend came 3rd in the Post Graduate Sibe group. Amy idea if groups like this end up on YouTube?


Unfortunately they don't tend to put much of the showing classes up, except maybe best of breed. It's quite common for spectators to film on their phones and such though so it's worth keeping an eye on YouTube to see if anyone uploads their own footage.

We're currently cheering on the Four Paws Flyers in the flyball because they've got an awesome little whippet on their team


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

SingingWhippet said:


> Unfortunately they don't tend to put much of the showing classes up, except maybe best of breed. It's quite common for spectators to film on their phones and such though so it's worth keeping an eye on YouTube to see if anyone uploads their own footage.
> 
> We're currently cheering on the Four Paws Flyers in the flyball because they've got an awesome little whippet on their team


Yes, I thought it sounded a little too specialist to be easily found .


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

It is a shame they don't cover more of the actual showing classes but I imagine that with thirty odd breed rings to cover each day it would be a logistical nightmare!!


----------



## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

When are the Malamutes on.. Scouts buddy is there and now I'm going tomorrow I will see if can track them down x


----------



## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

Dogworld filmed Open Dog in the Papillon ring because Travis was top dog all breeds last year.

Glad they didn't film me in the class afterwards though!


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Is the sloped back on the gsd not a fault?


----------



## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Nettles said:


> Is the sloped back on the gsd not a fault?


I was just wondering that. It didn't look to comfortable being checked over be the judge either.


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

I personally didn't like the look of the GSD, it looked much to sloped in my opinion , I thought that little 8 year old girl handler was very good.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

The GSD is very slopping, looks awful. Much prefer the straighter backed version. Very nervous too which isn't good.
Some interesting new breeds in the group.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

kittih said:


> I was just wondering that. It didn't look to comfortable being checked over be the judge either.


It really wasn't settled the whole time, even before being checked over.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

The sheltie is a good size, some seem to be very small these days.
Like the two Belgium shepherds.


----------



## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

That GSD was awfull! couldn't stand! did anyone notice its movement going out of the ring?


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

colliemerles said:


> I personally didn't like the look of the GSD, it looked much to sloped in my opinion , I thought that little 8 year old girl handler was very good.





Siskin said:


> The GSD is very slopping, looks awful. Much prefer the straighter backed version. Very nervous too which isn't good.
> Some interesting new breeds in the group.


Is that a desired look now? I've always preferred the look of a straighter back too but never seen one sloping as much as that. It was awful! 
The young girl did very well for all the age of her  Didn't realise she was only 8!!!


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Wow the little girl got fourth place, how marvellous for her what an absolute thrill


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Kinjilabs said:


> That GSD was awfull! couldn't stand! did anyone notice its movement going out of the ring?


That's when I really noticed it the most. It's back end was almost touching the ground.


----------



## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

Didn't help that the GSD seemed quite nervy and really didn't show well. Thought the BC was a good example of a show type collie although obviously not as good looking as either of my two (who were banned from watching with me on the bed after having handbags earlier over an old bone leaving me with a tooth shaped bruise). Did like the young handler too - showed the dog well and lovely display of manners congratulating the winner - credit to herself and parents.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Nettles said:


> Is that a desired look now? I've always preferred the look of a straighter back too but never seen one sloping as much as that. It was awful!
> The young girl did very well for all the age of her  Didn't realise she was only 8!!!


There seems to be two types and it's the sloping back version that is popular in the show ring. They seem to be getting worse and worse. Surely they must have back problems later in life


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

speug said:


> Didn't help that the GSD seemed quite nervy and really didn't show well. Thought the BC was a good example of a show type collie although obviously not as good looking as either of my two (who were banned from watching with me on the bed after having handbags earlier over an old bone leaving me with a tooth shaped bruise). Did like the young handler too - showed the dog well and lovely display of manners congratulating the winner - credit to herself and parents.


Excuse my ignorance but I take it show show collies look different? That's not what I know a BC to look like at all so was surprised it won. It's nose was quite snubbed rather than the long pointy noses on any I've seen.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Siskin said:


> There seems to be two types and it's the sloping back version that is popular in the show ring. They seem to be getting worse and worse. Surely they must have back problems later in life


Very sad if that's the desired look for the ring  There's nothing more beautiful than a lovely straight backed healthy GSD.


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

I really liked the BC and i loved how the wee girl congratulated the winner. Lovely manners


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Nettles said:


> That's when I really noticed it the most. It's back end was almost touching the ground.


I was going to say its arse was scraping along and popped on here to see what everyone was saying.



Nettles said:


> Excuse my ignorance but I take it show show collies look different? That's not what I know a BC to look like at all so was surprised it won. It's nose was quite snubbed rather than the long pointy noses on any I've seen.


Yes - working lines or non-shows in general are more elongated in nose and legs. Miko at 6months dwarfs that one I'd have to guess.

But YAY border collie!!! Well chuffed!

Hoped the young girl would get 3rd but very happy for her she and the Samoyed were gorgeous.


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Thrilled with the winner and what an absolute sweetie the Sammy's handler was!!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I watched the Hovawart BoB win today. Lovely looking boy. And the Rottweiler handler is a girl we met with a few weeks ago in regards to her handling Cash so that was lovely to see too


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Loved the border collie. Nice to see the smooth get shortlisted too. I also really liked the sheltie and from seeing lots today im really taken by them and so was my OH


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Hanwombat said:


> Loved the border collie. Nice to see the smooth get shortlisted too. I also really liked the sheltie and from seeing lots today im really taken by them and so was my OH


My first dog was a sheltie.,my parents bought him for me when I was 9. He was a lovely gentle dog, didn't have such a profuse coat as they have nowadays and was a little bigger then they are now.


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

my first dog my parents brought me was a sable and white sheltie, I called him Shep, he was small but had a lot of coat, I think I was about 12 or 13. my parents also had a sheltie called Laddie.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Hanwombat said:


> Loved the border collie. Nice to see the smooth get shortlisted too. I also really liked the sheltie and from seeing lots today im really taken by them and so was my OH


I was rooting for the smooth, it wasn't as beautiful as Bigby though


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

colliemerles said:


> my first dog my parents brought me was a sable and white sheltie, I called him Shep, he was small but had a lot of coat, I think I was about 12 or 13. my parents also had a sheltie called Laddie.


My sheltie was called Laddie too, I wanted to call him Lassie, but parents said no you can't he's a boy. Rather ironic really as Lassie was actually a male although I didn't find that out for many years


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

we had a rough collie called Bonnie and she had two pups, a girl called lassie who went to live with my grand parents, and a boy called Jason who went to live with my aunty.


----------



## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

Odd they didn't show the GSD moving on +1 :/


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Muze said:


> Odd they didn't show the GSD moving on +1 :/


True - i didn't notice that actually!


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Possibly the best place will be to wait until the YouTube video of the judging is put up. The tv program is edited and doesn't show the dogs trotting round the ring much. The YouTube video will be taken from the live feed of today and isn't edited.


----------



## Tillystar (Jan 30, 2013)

I've always had BC growing up but not a breed for my lifestyle but my parents are now both retired have Bella a farm bred collie. 
But for local loyalty, I want James to win here he is today at my local pet shop, one of his owners works here


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

rachelholmes said:


> I've always had BC growing up but not a breed for my lifestyle but my parents are now both retired have Bella a farm bred collie.
> But for local loyalty, I want James to win here he is today at my local pet shop, one of his owners works here


He is a lovely dog, I hope he gets it too.

When we lived in Yorkshire I used to know a lady that had two Gordon Setters, always had two, when one died she would immediately get another. Odd thing was that they were called Rack and Ruin, always the same names, so if Ruin died the next dog would be called Ruin as well


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Muze said:


> Odd they didn't show the GSD moving on +1 :/


They didn't show him moving at all, it wasn't cut out for +1!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I missed the working group other than a quick look on my phone. All I can say is I'm _very_ glad the neo didn't win........

Caught most of the pastoral group, wasn't the sammy's handler super?


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Nettles said:


> Very sad if that's the desired look for the ring  There's nothing more beautiful than a lovely straight backed healthy GSD.


They shouldn't be totally straight backed as in a totally level topline as structurally that isn't correct for the breed, even working lines have a slight roach in the back end. Some show lines just take it to an extreme.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Found this on the judging on the GSD BoB


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

labradrk said:


> They shouldn't be totally straight backed as in a totally level topline as structurally that isn't correct for the breed, even working lines have a slight roach in the back end. Some show lines just take it to an extreme.


Should they be slanted or curved? I didn't actually meant level from shoulders to bum but in a slight slope downwards. The one in the ring tonight looked like his back was hump shaped and it's bum was lower than his belly.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

rachelholmes said:


> I've always had BC growing up but not a breed for my lifestyle but my parents are now both retired have Bella a farm bred collie.
> But for local loyalty, I want James to win here he is today at my local pet shop, one of his owners works here


I saw yesterday's on catch up today and thought that James was so fantastic.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Siskin said:


> Found this on the judging on the GSD BoB


I haven't seen today's yet, so didn't realise how sloped they are. To me, that looks deformed


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> I haven't seen today's yet, so didn't realise how sloped they are. To me, that looks deformed


It doesn't actually look quite so bad in this video as it did in the ring tonight. I think the dogs anxiousness may have made it look even worse.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Just popping this here so I can find it quickly in the morning :Joyful

Day 4 live feed

Day 4 schedule:



> 0900: Agility - Championship - Round 1 - Jumping
> 1010: Good Citizen Dog Scheme Display
> 1030: Southern Golden Retriever Display Team
> 1045: Safe and Sound
> ...


Yay!! Hound day!!


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Nettles said:


> I was rooting for the smooth, it wasn't as beautiful as Bigby though


Nope


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Nettles said:


> It doesn't actually look quite so bad in this video as it did in the ring tonight. I think the dogs anxiousness may have made it look even worse.


Oh dear . Catching up with yesterday's now. Sometimes only having catch up tv is a pain in the bum


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Ok...am going backwards again on this thread...back to the peke.

My husband is absolutely mortified the peke got through after I finally caught up with Thursdays action today! He had a few choice words for the peke...mainly complaining why are they carrying it, it doesn't look like a dog...few choice words for the judge...starting with 'that jacket'. I have never seen him so passionate about anything before in his life!

Now I have mentioned a thousand times on here...my husband says he doesn't do small dogs as an owner of 2 chis, and a Yorkie. I think he lies, naturally biased he wanted the chi to win!


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lullabydream said:


> Ok...am going backwards again on this thread...back to the peke.
> 
> My husband is absolutely mortified the peke got through after I finally caught up with Thursdays action today! He had a few choice words for the peke...mainly complaining why are they carrying it, it doesn't look like a dog...few choice words for the judge...starting with 'that jacket'. I have never seen him so passionate about anything before in his life!
> 
> Now I have mentioned a thousand times on here...my husband says he doesn't do small dogs as an owner of 2 chis, and a Yorkie. I think he lies, naturally biased he wanted the chi to win!


I was unhappy about the Pele as well, but maybe because I really liked the ETT


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> I was unhappy about the Pele as well, but maybe because I really liked the ETT


Oops, Peke not Pele...


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Siskin said:


> Found this on the judging on the GSD BoB


That's quite depressing. When walking parallel to each other away from the camera, the bitch's hind end was virtually dragging, and the dog's angulation when walking is shocking. So wobbly. But whilst judges continue to keep awarding these types, they will continue to be bred 

I did see a nice picture of a show GSD the other day though that was markedly better then these two winners. I'll see if I can dig it up, can't quite remember where I saw it now.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Here it is -










Sorry for the size.

Dog looks a bit fat for my liking, but his overall look is miles better than the two winners at Crufts.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> Here it is -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, much nicer looking dog, still has quite a slope but not exaggerated and without the sort of humpy bit half way along.


----------



## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> That's quite depressing. When walking parallel to each other away from the camera, the bitch's hind end was virtually dragging, and the dog's angulation when walking is shocking. So wobbly. But whilst judges continue to keep awarding these types, they will continue to be bred
> 
> I did see a nice picture of a show GSD the other day though that was markedly better then these two winners. I'll see if I can dig it up, can't quite remember where I saw it now.


I'm so sad to see videos like this - both look like they have something very wrong with them to me. Honestly, if I had seen them out and about, I'd honestly be thinking they needed medical treatment 



Dogloverlou said:


> Here it is -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Much more like how the should look 

And I'd rather a fat dog than a deformed one any day !


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Terrier group judging


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The terriers have got to be my second favourite group after the hounds, so many lovely breeds!!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Love the character of a few them as they walked in. The Australian seemed full of the joys of spring!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Ahhhhhh, I do have such a soft spot for Airedales.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Someone needs to tell Peter Purvis that Ilkley isn't in the Aire Valley......... :Joyful


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I have a soft spot for Australian terriers. They remind me of my Missy


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

That border is a cracking little thing.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Is it me, or is that Mini BT's head even more extreme than normal? I don't know, it just looks really excessive....


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Is it me, or is that Mini BT's head even more extreme than normal? I don't know, it just looks really excessive....


I think you may be right, I wasn't keen on either of them. I was trying to decide if it was an optical illusion because I'm more used to seeing them with mostly or all white faces. They did both seem more bulbous than usual.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Smooth foxes have such lovely faces.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The Wire Fox is a stunning little guy isn't he?


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Stunning Irish Terrier!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Stunning Irish Terrier!


Just thinking that, very nice indeed!!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The Kerry blue is a lovely mover.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Sweet little Manchester but don't like the way he's being handled on the move.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Argh, had to go feed the dogs!

Loving the look of that PRT.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Really like Scotties too. Looking into them as a future small dog once Missy has passed away


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Argh, had to go feed the dogs!


I'm going to try and dash out to feed my lot in between this and the hound group :Joyful

The PRT was lovely. Nice to see a wheaten Scottie for a change as well.

This seems like a _really_ strong group this year, so many really super dogs.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> I'm going to try and dash out to feed my lot in between this and the hound group :Joyful
> 
> The PRT was lovely. Nice to see a wheaten Scottie for a change as well.
> 
> This seems like a _really_ strong group this year, so many really super dogs.


I was trying to put it off, but was being pressurized! haha

I agree. This group does look very nice. A few I like.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> I was trying to put it off, but was being pressurized! haha


I've got Wybie eyeballing me from the other side of the room but as long as Fitz doesn't start kicking up a fuss I can get away with not feeding them just yet. I can't move though, if I so much as twitch they'll all be up and pestering me :Hilarious

They Skye was very nice, they're not normally one that I really like but that one looked like a really useful little dog.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> I've got Wybie eyeballing me from the other side of the room but as long as Fitz doesn't start kicking up a fuss I can get away with not feeding them just yet. I can't move though, if I so much as twitch they'll all be up and pestering me :Hilarious
> 
> They Skye was very nice, they're not normally one that I really like but that one looked like a really useful little dog.


I made the mistake of moving! :Hilarious

Not sure about that Staffie though.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Lovely Westie, I agree!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Not sure about that Staffie though.


Same, I'm not entirely sure why.

Out of this shortlist it has to be the border or Irish for me I think.


----------



## McKayz86 (Jan 31, 2016)

I love Wire Fox Terriers. The Irish is lovely.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> Same, I'm not entirely sure why.
> 
> Out of this shortlist it has to be the border or Irish for me I think.


Same for me I think. Although I do think that Westie is quite nice, she looks very smart.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Can't really argue with any of those placings really, shame the Irish wasn't up there but it really was a very strong group.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Yayyy! Wasn't she just BEAUTIFUL!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Probably my fave winner so far!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Here's your group @SingingWhippet 

And an Azawakh to start with. Love them!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Loving that Greyhound already. So fit looking.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Back, just in time!!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> Back, just in time!!


Good timing


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Loving that Greyhound already. So fit looking.


I'm liking that grey a lot more than I usually like show types.

Lovely sloughi, rather nice whippet as well.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> I'm liking that grey a lot more than I usually like show types.
> 
> Lovely sloughi, rather nice whippet as well.


Yes Sloughi & Whippet were nice too.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Watching channel 4


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I like that affie!!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Hanwombat said:


> Watching channel 4


Least we'll be at the same point come BiS


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Hanwombat said:


> Watching channel 4


Same here!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Basenji's are such pretty little things.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Big piece on the dodgy looking German Shepard!


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Talking about GSD winner on C4


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The head of the basset isn't too bad at all but so much excess skin on the body on legs


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Oh really, what's being said about the GSD?


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Nice, fit looking little beagle.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> The head of the basset isn't too bad at all but so much excess skin on the body on legs


I thought it looked a bit better


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

All very concerned about the health of it and sounds like the judge of the breed will get a serious eat bashing if not worse.

Very vague talk about removing GSD from crufts.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Oh really, what's being said about the GSD?


About the concerns and theyd even consider taking CCs away from unhealthy dogs to prevent being a champ.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The eyes on that Bloodhound make me wince


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

watching it on telly, its abit late they have picked up on the GSD , sounds like everyone was upset at seeing that.


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

I don't understand how the GSD won?? I'm so confused? If so many people are in uproar of it. I missed yesterday's tv show.. Was it on tv last night as the winner?


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> The eyes on that Bloodhound make me wince


Same


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Be interesting to see if they make any mention of the peke as well.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Rach&Miko said:


> All very concerned about the health of it and sounds like the judge of the breed will get a serious eat bashing if not worse.
> 
> Very vague talk about removing GSD from crufts.





Hanwombat said:


> About the concerns and theyd even consider taking CCs away from unhealthy dogs to prevent being a champ.


Oh wow, being taken that seriously, huh?  I missed it entirely yesterday. Am going to watch it later tonight.

The judge should be reprimanded for picking her.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

JenSteWillow said:


> I don't understand how the GSD won?? I'm so confused? If so many people are in uproar of it. I missed yesterday's tv show.. Was it on tv last night as the winner?


It won in as much as it made the working (?) group selection. Can't remember if it got placed or short listed.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Ohhhhhhh, lovely borzoi!!

Gorgeous little cirneco as well.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

colliemerles said:


> watching it on telly, its abit late they have picked up on the GSD , sounds like everyone was upset at seeing that.


And nothing on the fact the Peke's owner Bert is essentially a glorified puppy farmer


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> Ohhhhhhh, lovely borzoi!!
> 
> Gorgeous little cirneco as well.


The Cirneco is stunning!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> And nothing on the fact the Peke's owner Bert is essentially a glorified puppy farmer


Or, presumably, about the fact the peke couldn't even cope with a brief circuit round the ring without needing to be picked up.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Sweet expression on the little long haired Dachshund.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I find it hypocritical theyre going on about the GSD and taking healthy dogs seriously and yet that peke won the group on thursday!!


----------



## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Made me smile when they said that next year the GSD judge would be doing a very different job. I think they meant that the judge would be basing his decision in future on different criteria than this year but it came across ( to me at least) the the judge would be sweeping the streets and no longer a judge... :-o


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> Or, presumably, about the fact the peke couldn't even cope with a brief circuit round the ring without needing to be picked up.


Exactly! As far as I'm aware there is equal amounts of concern and uproar regarding his win.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I like that little mini smooth Dachshund!


----------



## Izzysmummy (Oct 12, 2011)

Very interesting discussion on channel 4 about that GSD. Glad it's been discussed rather than ignored! I think the judge that awarded it best of breed can wave goodbye any thoughts of judging at Crufts again! They all pinned it on his poor decision to let the dog through with some blame on poor handling too. Breeder, handler and judge all going to be massively discredited following this and rightly so. It's so important to highlight that those extremes of conformation are not healthy and should not be encouraged!

Does anyone know if BOB could be taken from that dog?


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

kittih said:


> Made me smile when they said that next year the GSD judge would be doing a very different job. I think they meant that the judge would be basing his decision in future on different criteria than this year but it came across ( to me at least) the the judge would be sweeping the streets and no longer a judge... :-o


Or worse lol!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Is it me or do most of the daxies look better this year than usual? The wires are both lovely!!


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Izzysmummy said:


> Very interesting discussion on channel 4 about that GSD. Glad it's been discussed rather than ignored! I think the judge that awarded it best of breed can wave goodbye any thoughts of judging at Crufts again! They all pinned it on his poor decision to let the dog through with some blame on poor handling too. Breeder, handler and judge all going to be massively discredited following this and rightly so. It's so important to highlight that those extremes of conformation are not healthy and should not be encouraged!
> 
> Does anyone know if BOB could be taken from that dog?


I think that may well happen.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Very nice deerhound, moved beautifully.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Izzysmummy said:


> Very interesting discussion on channel 4 about that GSD. Glad it's been discussed rather than ignored! I think the judge that awarded it best of breed can wave goodbye any thoughts of judging at Crufts again! They all pinned it on his poor decision to let the dog through with some blame on poor handling too. Breeder, handler and judge all going to be massively discredited following this and rightly so. It's so important to highlight that those extremes of conformation are not healthy and should not be encouraged!
> 
> Does anyone know if BOB could be taken from that dog?


I think they definitely can.


----------



## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Rach&Miko said:


> It won in as much as it made the working (?) group selection. Can't remember if it got placed or short listed.


I don't think it was placed or shortlisted.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

My live feed is playing up! Missed a few dogs there!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I really hope, with all this discussion about the GSD, that the peke doesn't get anywhere in BiS.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Hmmmmm, not as keen on the greyhound now I've seen it up close.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

BC for the win!!! (Not biased At.All. lol) xxx


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Some friends in the village have been breeding, showing and judging Labradors for the last 50 years. From what they've said, you have to be very experienced and a long serving judge before being allowed to judge at Crufts. He was hugely proud to be selected about 10 years ago and judged Labs of course. 
I'm wondering if the criteria for becoming a judge has changed over recent years as I picked up a few grumbles on another forum about new judges being very inexperienced.
Glad something is being discussed about the GSD, pity they haven't included the hairy oblong aka the Peke.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> Hmmmmm, not as keen on the greyhound now I've seen it up close.


Same here actually! He looked nicer on his entrance, not sure what it is though.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

_Stunning_ beezer!!!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> I really hope, with all this discussion about the GSD, that the peke doesn't get anywhere in BiS.


Surely they'll be even more picky now after the GSD discussion. We can hope!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I like that Wolfhound. Such substance to him! Wow.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Can someone give me a summary of why peke is bad? Not a breed I know anything about.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Surely they'll be even more picky now after the GSD discussion. We can hope!


I was wondering earlier if some words might have been quietly had backstage. It would do the KC, showing and pedigree dogs in general no favours at all if it was placed.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> I like that Wolfhound. Such substance to him! Wow.


Same, yet surprisingly light in his movement. Lovely!!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Gorgeous pharaoh as well, stunning head on her.


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

That pod is fab, jumping up at the judge :Joyful


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Some nice looking terriers!! Love the Irish


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Love the saluki.

And the sloughi, absolutely stunning.


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Gosh I really don't get all the show stuff...
So the GSD that won has a hip score of 13 & elbows 0 ... Are you only meant to breed from them (ideally) if they have a score lower than the breed average? For GSD that's 13?? So has this dog just scraped through with an 'acceptable' score? Yet gets BOB? Do they not take scores into consideration at shows? if this dog is as bad as everyone is making out, how's it even made it to crufts? 
I have so many questions :Bag


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Aww Westie !!!!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Cracking little whippet!!!


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Nettles said:


> Should they be slanted or curved? I didn't actually meant level from shoulders to bum but in a slight slope downwards. The one in the ring tonight looked like his back was hump shaped and it's bum was lower than his belly.


Depends who you ask doesn't it, if you tell the show people their dogs look wrong they'll say the working dog look wrong, and vice versa. IMO that bitch was really extreme and not in a good way, physiologically I don't see how anyone could say that dogs back end was sound.

Here's Juno's sire (all working line), although he's stacked here which obviously extenuates it, you can see the slight roach in the back end which hopefully illustrates what I mean


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Thought we weren't going to have any sighthounds in the short list then


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Damn hub decided to kick me off didn't it!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Whippet or pharaoh for me!!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

SingingWhippet said:


> YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!


I agree big big yes


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Aww, happy with that win too


----------



## Phoenix Rising (Jan 25, 2016)

The little Terrier playing with Clare Balding now is cute!


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Damn hub decided to kick me off didn't it!


Lol was gonna say divorce him and then realised you meant internet!


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I've swapped onto Channel 4 now, presumably the BiS is shown live?


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Im not on hound group yet haha


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Mary Ray next! Yay!!


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

glad the whippet won that, she was a little stunner.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Rach&Miko said:


> Lol was gonna say divorce him and then realised you meant internet!


Haha, I see how you thought that!! :Hilarious Thankfully no hub of the human type here!


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Was about to say how cute the Samoyed girl was and then heard "strike knows I'm the boss".... Argh!


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Rach&Miko said:


> Was about to say how cute the Samoyed girl was and then heard "strike knows I'm the boss".... Argh!


Parents sadly id imagine. Io is the boss in my house


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I can't watch the TV coverage because of Miss Missy!


----------



## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Rach&Miko said:


> Can someone give me a summary of why peke is bad? Not a breed I know anything about.


I know nothing about them technically either, but a dog that seems to be having trouble breathing and struggles to even waddle round the show ring (I won't dignify it's action with the word 'trot') surely can't be a good choice to be holding up as a shining example of a breed.

I believe there is also more than a little talk about his breeder running a very large scale pedigree and crossbreed puppy breeding operation.

Now, come on the BC


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Break time!


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Thanks jesthar!


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Jesthar said:


> I know nothing about them technically either, but a dog that seems to be having trouble breathing and struggles to even waddle round the show ring (I won't dignify it's action with the word 'trot') surely can't be a good choice to be holding up as a shining example of a breed.
> 
> I believe there is also more than a little talk about his breeder running a very large scale pedigree and crossbreed puppy breeding operation.
> 
> Now, come on the BC


I think that is a fair summing @Jesthar. All the other dogs in the group belted round the ring with their handlers full of beans, whereas the peke shuffled a few steps then wouldn't go any further (I was watching the live feed on YouTube). Ok it was bred as a lap dog, but surely they should be able to do more then waddle about.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Awww I do love a Merle

The speed on that agility course!!!!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes @Rach&Miko, he hardly was chosen as a good representative of a fit dog IMO. He refused to walk further at one point, his tongue was curled to the roof of his mouth, and he was picked up once chosen in the group line up too. No fit dog should struggle with walking a lap around that ring, but he clearly did.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Well this singing is a disaster!!


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

If the peke wins theyll be a huge uproar!! I hope the poor dog doesnt win


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Thanks dogloverlou - will have to YouTube that sounds awful!


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Hanwombat said:


> If the peke wins theyll be a huge uproar!! I hope the poor dog doesnt win


Its all good cos the BC will win


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Can't see the Peke winning to be honest, so no worries


----------



## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

That little whippetis AMAZING in the Flyball


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Was that a lab on one of the teams?

Well done Salty though - really thought four paws was going to take it!


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I love styrder the lurcher and the whippet!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Can you watch the live feed from the group judging from other days at all? Trying to find the Toy group to show @Rach&Miko.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Siskin said:


> Some friends in the village have been breeding, showing and judging Labradors for the last 50 years. From what they've said, you have to be very experienced and a long serving judge before being allowed to judge at Crufts. He was hugely proud to be selected about 10 years ago and judged Labs of course.
> I'm wondering if the criteria for becoming a judge has changed over recent years as I picked up a few grumbles on another forum about new judges being very inexperienced.
> Glad something is being discussed about the GSD, pity they haven't included the hairy oblong aka the Peke.


I know some judges in smaller breeds have done the breed judging without even touching a single dog from the breed before which just seems nuts. I think they really ought to be more professional in their selection of judges, getting international judges to come over and revise for our standards etc.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Ah sweet I'll do that after the c4 show thank you xxx


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I really think I might have to have another crack at flyball with the whippets, Fitz was awesome at it when we tried a couple of years back.


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

I'm hoping to do fly ball with muttnuts but need to master fetch first lol


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Never mind, found it!





Watch from around 28 mins @Rach&Miko. Notice Eric putting the brakes on? How he waddles? And then later on when he's picked for group he's lifted over, and once he's actually won, he's panting heavily.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> I know some judges in smaller breeds have done the breed judging without even touching a single dog from the breed before which just seems nuts. I think they really ought to be more professional in their selection of judges, getting international judges to come over and revise for our standards etc.


I watched the group judging of the gundogs on YouTube rather then the TV and was greatly impressed with the judge as she really went over the dogs a lot really feeling how they were built.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The Hovawart group judge yesterday was very thorough and good I thought, but I've heard from others also say they've been in classes where the judge has barely glanced at them and given them the most minimum of 'go overs'. I definitely don't think all judges are as good as they should be.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I wanted bigby as my agility dog haha maybe someday


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

And don't get me started on AVNSC judges! lol. I'd be surprised if half of those we've been under have any idea how to judge a Hovawart


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Siskin said:


> I watched the group judging of the gundogs on YouTube rather then the TV and was greatly impressed with the judge as she really went over the dogs a lot really feeling how they were built.


Oh yes I think some of the group judges seem to be excellent, I was more talking about the individual breed judges awarding dogs who everyone inside a breed knows have lots of faults and the judge obviously isn't au fait with the standards. I don't envy some of the breed judges in huge classes like labs, cavs and staffies though! How you judge that many dogs is beyond me. Must be exhausting.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> And don't get me started on AVNSC judges! lol. I'd be surprised if half of those we've been under have any idea how to judge a Hovawart


Indeed. Do your homework people!!!!


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Want either gordon setter, bc, westie or whippet to win  really like the whippet


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Who's going to win then?


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Ohh....that sweet whippet!!!

Hope !!!
Gordon and westie and lovely spitz...

But the GSD...that is a disgrace. Why those lovely dogs are to look like that!!!!


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> Indeed. Do your homework people!!!!


You'd think so, wouldn't you! But then again, that's what you get when you own a rare breed!

I was pleasantly surprised at a lovely write up we had last year from a judge who seemed to know what she was talking about


----------



## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Just chatting with a breeder friend (very small scale), and they are of the opinion that they would _never_ want to their breed to win Crufst as the subsequent demand for the dogs would ruin the breed. Thoughts?


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Who's going to win then?


I'm rooting for the Westie I think. She's the one that's impressed me the most I think, but the Whippet is very nice too. Loved her joy when she started running around the ring


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Jesthar said:


> Just chatting with a breeder friend (very small scale), and they are of the opinion that they would _never_ want to their breed to win Crufst as the subsequent demand for the dogs would ruin the breed. Thoughts?


Was thinking this earlier but I suppose it depends on the breed.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Dogloverlou said:


> I'm rooting for the Westie I think. She's the one that's impressed me the most I think, but the Whippet is very nice too. Loved her joy when she started running around the ring


It would be nice for the setter to take it, but my money's on the westie!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Whippetwhippetwhippetwhippetwhippetwhippetwhippetwhippetwhippet!!!


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Argh not the peke!!! Hideous! Maltese or cc should have got it! Thank DLL for the link xxx

BC to win!!!! Can't believe a BC has never won!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> Just chatting with a breeder friend (very small scale), and they are of the opinion that they would _never_ want to their breed to win Crufst as the subsequent demand for the dogs would ruin the breed. Thoughts?


Depends on the breeds overall popularity already IMO. For example a Lab winning is hardly going to add further demand/popularity to the already huge numbers being bred/owned. Whereas I'd be more concerned with a rarer, more specialised breed winning I think.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Whilst I'm chuffed he's a collie man - feel that's a bit biased.......?


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Gosh that Westie is stunning but I like the Whippet too.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Had to pick the peke up again but he did make it further..

Yay! Zony!!!!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Poor Eric. I do feel sorry for him. Noticed his owner picking him up right there at the end when he got to that corner.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Poor Peke looks knackered just making the entrance into the ring...


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

How long til we break the thread lol


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Border collie has never won crufts before has it?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

westie~ma said:


> Gosh that Westie is stunning


I love the way her little tail is wagging like a metronome


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Surprised the peke didnt die!! 

Im all for collies but i love the whippet.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Border collie has never won crufts before has it?


Pretty sure that's what I heard them say and oh commented on it as well


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I wonder if the Whippet or Westie win, being such crowd pleasers, whether the KC think that will help go in their favour and calm the angered public down over the GSD. Brush it under the rug once more?


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

The peke is upsetting. They should ban the breed until they produce healthier looking dogs.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The owner of Eric the Peke also apparently admitted none of his 'top winners' live in the home!


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Hanwombat said:


> The peke is upsetting. They should ban the breed until they produce healthier looking dogs.


Imagine if we were deliberately creating humans with such exaggerated deformities as these dogs. It would be the stuff of horror movies. Poor Peke has no face and no legs.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Love the Gordon, he moves beautifully


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> The owner of Eric the Peke also apparently admitted none of his 'top winners' live in the home!


Because if they mixed they'd chew each other I read...


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Rooting for the Westie


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Hanwombat said:


> The peke is upsetting. They should ban the breed until they produce healthier looking dogs.


I do think the KC need to get much more hardline about conformation-related difficulties in various breeds. Yes, they risk alienating some within the showing community but equally they're not going to attract as much new blood (or regain any support from the general public) if dogs in such a state keep winning rosettes.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

The westies a smart little dog, really pretty


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Rach&Miko said:


> Because if they mixed they'd chew each other I read...


Yes! Most ludicrous comment I've ever heard!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

That whippet is _lovely_ :Kiss


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Whippet has a good chance. Can't remember what year it was the whippet last won. Five years? Ten years?


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Peke is going to have a heart attack if it has to do another lap!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Uh oh, he's moving them again - the Peke may well collapse at this rate...


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Wah poor peke  go whippet!


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Maybe the peke should win just for surviving!?


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Peke - 'button eyes' my bum - they proptose at the drop of the hat because they're barely in in the skull to start with.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Rach&Miko said:


> Maybe the peke should win just for surviving!?


A contest to the death!


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Only been watching the last 5 mins but I like the German spitz


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Whippet has a good chance. Can't remember what year it was the whippet last won. Five years? Ten years?


It was 2004 so 12 years. High time for another!!


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Peke - 'button eyes' my bum - they *proptose* at the drop of the hat because they're barely in in the skull to start with.


No idea what that word means but I agree anyway lol


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

SingingWhippet said:


> It was 2004 so 12 years. High time for another!!


2004?! Really?! OMG I feel old!


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Rach&Miko said:


> No idea what that word means but I agree anyway lol


Pop out!


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Wish I'd bet on it now! :Hilarious


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Thanks ceiling kitty

Well done westie and whippet!

Wahhhhhh collie!


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Woop woop happy with that  westie is a awesome little diva.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Great, well deserved winner and the whippet the runner up. Brilliant


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

YAY!!!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Ahhhhhh, so close!!

Can't begrudge that westie BiS though, super little dog!!


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

I reckon collie was third lol


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Siskin said:


> Love the Gordon, he moves beautifully


ive seen several people on this thread comment on how lovely the Gordon was, so not picking on you, just that yours was the last @Siskin

but
read this and then see what you think, hips 3 TIMES that of breed median

http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/good-gordon-keeping-it-in-family.html


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Eeeeeekkk!!!!!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

The westie will fit IN that trophy, I supect  Lovely animal - and hobby bred, too!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

How amazing must that feel though? Go in this morning, not even imagining you'd win BiS!!


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

That westie is adorable!!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm very glad that BiS and RBiS are both nice, healthy, athletic looking dogs.

It would have been a complete shit show if the peke had placed.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Go westie!!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

SingingWhippet said:


> I'm very glad that BiS and RBiS are both nice, healthy, athletic looking dogs.
> 
> It would have been a complete shit show if the peke had placed.


This thread would have broke had that happened!!


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

The forum would have exploded if the peke won


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Gorgeous little Westie


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

OK, I'm a bit confused. My breeder friend called the placings exactly, and says it is because they were the only two breeds which could COPE with winning, not because they were necessarily the best dogs. They're doing their best to explain, but I'm not sure I'm following, anyone else got any thoughts?


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Westie. Whippet!!!!


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

mrs phas said:


> ive seen several people on this thread comment on how lovely the Gordon was, so not picking on you, just that yours was the last @Siskin
> 
> but
> read this and then see what you think, hips 3 TIMES that of breed median
> ...


Oooooooh that's not good! Not good at all! 

Nice bit of nepotism going on too it seems...


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Jesthar said:


> OK, I'm a bit confused. My breeder friend called the placings exactly, and says it is because they were the only two breeds which could COPE with winning, not because they were necessarily the best dogs. They're doing their best to explain, but I'm not sure I'm following, anyone else got any thoughts?


Maybe based on their previous theory about increase in breed popularity?


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Jesthar said:


> OK, I'm a bit confused. My breeder friend called the placings exactly, and says it is because they were the only two breeds which could COPE with winning, not because they were necessarily the best dogs. They're doing their best to explain, but I'm not sure I'm following, anyone else got any thoughts?


Do they mean in terms of popularity/suitability as pets? They're both already very popular (they've both been consistently in the top 20 most popular breeds for years) and are both generally pretty suitable as family pets. People do get concerned that if a very rare or more specialised breed wins there could be a population explosion or sudden glut of people wanting them when they're not suitable for their situation. And of course as long as there's demand there'll be unscrupulous breeders there to supply it.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Whoops, got overly keen pressing the "post reply" button there :Joyful


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> OK, I'm a bit confused. My breeder friend called the placings exactly, and says it is because they were the only two breeds which could COPE with winning, not because they were necessarily the best dogs. They're doing their best to explain, but I'm not sure I'm following, anyone else got any thoughts?





Rach&Miko said:


> Maybe based on their previous theory about increase in breed popularity?


Yes as Rach said, maybe in regards to their popularity? Breeds not likely to suffer as a result of winning? I don't know, I could be way off lol.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I liked both owners as they really do love their dogs


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

I could've just taken that wee westie home in my pocket. She was absolutely gorgeous! The whippet was stunning too.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Am thrilled wee Geordie girl won !! 

I've followed her progress for a while via a friend ..... She is just gorgeous  

I soooooo wish I had gone today now !


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2016)

Yaaaay the pretty westie girl deserved to win. I have never seen a westie win best in show before.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Me and Lucky the Westie are thrilled that the little Westie girl won.

I've gone to BIS every year for the last 12 years eek, wasn't going to attend this year and then found last minute (as in Sunday morning) BIS tickets so booked them and now I am sooo glad I went


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Happy the Westie got it. 

She's very neat.

Congrats to the Whippet too, young handler doing a fab job. 

I called it right lol hmmmm might buy a lottery ticket this week lol


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Marie and her mum have been breeding Westie's for a long time and they do very well at regular shows (they had another dog at Crufts that won best puppy i believe).

If anyone can make a Westie look their best its definately Marie - she owns her own groomers which is also a training salon and (i dont know what its called) but she is one of 20 something in the whole of the UK that has some sort of advanced grooming award ..... so i am sure all of that really helps!

I have never actually met Geordie Girl but a very good friend of mine is a very good friend of hers .... and not only is Geordie Girl very beautiful but she is extremely good natured and such an all round friendly little thing aswell 

And so cross at myself, I kept toying with the idea of going back to Crufts yesterday to meet up with my good friend who was showing but after Saturday i just ached so much i knew i wouldnt make it there so early! If i had, then my friend would have introduced me to them ..... typical !

The good thing though - is that i really dont think Marie is going to breed the life out of Geordie Girl so she can make a fortune on the back of the win, unlike poor Olac Moon Pilot, the last winner who is actually my Poppy's great grandfather - along with literally hundreds and hundreds of other Westie's !

Edited to add - Olac Moon Pilot sired 87 litters !


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/revealed-crufts-gsd-footage-they-didnt.html?m=1


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## komondor_owner (Jan 19, 2016)

deleted


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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

I feel sorry for the poor GSD & the peke  both seem dreadful examples of each breed & have no idea how either could win any sort of rosette 
I have a friend who loves pekes but hers go out rabbiting/mousing, live 'normal' dog lives & can run freely 
I'm glad my Aunt has died as she was a major GSD fan & would be horrified to see one with back legs in that shape/condition

I loved the whippet, westie & the gordon setter :Happy


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

That's just makes me want cry.. Poor thing!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Oh crikey, it's even in the DM now

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-German-Shepherd-sloped-wins-best-breed.html


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

The thing I don't understand is why they are saying that the breed may be banned from future competitions - but it was the judge who disregarded the greed standard guidelines. Surely it would make more of a statement if it was the judge who faced sanctions and future competitions were judged by someone who would actually follow KC guidelines. It is all very well criticising the breeder and handler and, yes, they are responsible for the dog being shown in that state BUT until judges actually start following the guidelines and not rewarding dogs like this then there is not much incentive for people to show healthier dogs (and this goes for many breeds, not just the German Shepherd).


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Dimwit said:


> The thing I don't understand is why they are saying that the breed may be banned from future competitions - but it was the judge who disregarded the greed standard guidelines. Surely it would make more of a statement if it was the judge who faced sanctions and future competitions were judged by someone who would actually follow KC guidelines. It is all very well criticising the breeder and handler and, yes, they are responsible for the dog being shown in that state BUT until judges actually start following the guidelines and not rewarding dogs like this then there is not much incentive for people to show healthier dogs (and this goes for many breeds, not just the German Shepherd).


Well said. I read that James' hip scoring was 37 (very likely on here) - surely that should have discounted him, as he was not within the breed guidelines. Until they stick to the guidelines, nothing will change


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Dimwit said:


> The thing I don't understand is why they are saying that the breed may be banned from future competitions - but it was the judge who disregarded the greed standard guidelines. Surely it would make more of a statement if it was the judge who faced sanctions and future competitions were judged by someone who would actually follow KC guidelines. It is all very well criticising the breeder and handler and, yes, they are responsible for the dog being shown in that state BUT until judges actually start following the guidelines and not rewarding dogs like this then there is not much incentive for people to show healthier dogs (and this goes for many breeds, not just the German Shepherd).


Actually, two judges must have put that bitch forward. The judge of the bitches and his opposite number judging the dogs.

I think the concern may be, (or one of them), that this particular bitch didn't stand out for her poor conformation amongst her own Breed, which could mean there is a significant problem within the Breed. The Kennel Club can exclude a Breed, but would only do so if they felt that unacceptable faults were being routinely bred in and ignored/accepted by Judges. It would have to be fairly extreme for that action to be taken, I would think they would be more likely to begin by removing whoever judged the bitches from the list.

It's encouraging that this hasn't been swept under the carpet or ignored. Representatives of the Kennel Club, amongst others, were speaking quite openly on Television and making their position clear that action will be taken.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm not thrilled to read the James the GS has a high hip score, but thereby lies a problem due to them being a vulnerable breed. If you only choose to breed only from dogs that have very low hip scores then the gene pool becomes less diverse and other problems will raise their ugly heads. If he was mated to a good bitch with low scores, then some of the pups will inherit mums low score. However, although bad hips appear to be hereditary its not totally the answer and there seems to be other factors contributing. Another point was mentioned was that with the high hip score he wouldn't be able to do the work he is bred for. It's fine making a statement like that, but has he actually tried to be worked, no idea. Also, working dogs are not routinely hip scored before being bred in the same way that show dogs are. It would be interesting to know what the average hip score is of the many different working gundog breeds to see if they actually are low.
There is a thought that the GSD could have been in season. I wondered that myself when I watched the YouTube vid I posted several pages back. The male GSD was very interested in her where as she kept scuttling along peering over her shoulder looking somewhat worried as the male came up behind her. It could be why she was in such a pickle in the Group surrounded by a large number of male dogs. It is not against the rules to bring bitches to Crufts if they are in season, but is generally frowned upon as being unfair and unsporting.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Whatever is up with that bitch made a lot of people very upset. The video of her moving is horrific.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Movement aside, the fact she's nervous isn't to be held against her IMO which I know they also discussed on the TV coverage briefly. So many of the dogs this year seemed nervy and easily spooked. Such a long day for these dogs who make it to group judging especially.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

And yet the whippet owner accidentally shoved her dog in the westie's face to hug the winner and both dogs ignored each other, I thought they were both lovely!


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

komondor_owner said:


> I couldn't watch the GSD's just awful. How that can be judged as "best of breed" is beyond me. It can barely walk.


This makes me so bloody angry and its why I detest Crufts! Once again judges who as far as I am concerned are not fit to clean up my dogs deposits give an award to a dog that can barely move and encourages further breeding of this abomination. Shame on every one of the people involved in this repulsive destruction of the breed I love. The lot of them should be in prison as far as I am concerned.

When will this nonsense end?

As long as judges and the KC continue to turn a blind eye to the health issues that exist in the dogs they award at shows like cruft's, I will not support it in any way shape or form.

That is as much as I have to say on this abysmal spectacle.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> And yet the whippet owner accidentally shoved her dog in the westie's face to hug the winner and both dogs ignored each other, I thought they were both lovely!


They were both deserving winners for sure.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Copied from FB.

_Re GSD Best of Breed at Crufts 2016

The GSD League condemns most strongly the manner in which the Kennel Club and the Crufts presenters have created public hysteria regarding the German Shepherd Bitch who gained Best of Breed at Crufts 2016 under breed specialist judge, Davy Hall.

With complete disregard for all of the many breed specialist judges, including highly regarded judges from the breed's country of origin, that have awarded this bitch top honours at both Kennel Club and WUSV shows, the Channel 4 coverage acted as judge, jury and hangman without any balance of reporting.

Cruaghaire Catoria is a correct type to the German Shepherd Dog standard, she has a KC/BVA hip score of 13 and elbow score of 0. She is a fit, healthy, family dog.

The judge, Davy Hall, of the Gayville's GSDs kennels has been an exhibitor and breeder of GSDs for many years having bred, owned, trained and handled many top winning animals and Champions including the current breed CC record holder.

After being awarded Best of Breed, Catoria was then passed by the appointed Crufts vet to certify that she was fit and healthy to enter the big ring. She had passed another vet health check 6 months earlier. Indeed, no GSD has ever failed a vet health test at a Championship Show since they were introduced as part of the KC's Breed Watch.

German Shepherd Dogs are generally shown outside and certainly very few have ever experienced anything like the Crufts Best In Show ring. This young bitch performed extremely well in her breed ring but shortly afterwards in the main arena became overwhelmed by the environment and did not show her true beauty or proper movement, she was not the only dog to react badly to the pressure of the situation. Her internationally renowned handler Craig Rice, who has handled at the top level for many years, explained what took place in the lead up to the group judging and in the main arena….

After a foot perfect performance in the GSD Breed ring, where Tori gained Best of Breed in a high quality entry that included 2 VA rated Dogs, we were taken to do the KC appointed Vet Check. The Vet stated that there was absolutely no possible reason that he could not pass Tori as she showed no signs of bad health and her movement was not impaired in any way. This test included movement of the dog.

After a long wait of over 3 hours, which includes numerous forced photo shoots in the Crufts Best of Breed collection ring, we were finally abruptly told we would be entering the main Arena. This is a situation that no owner, trainer or handler can prepare for. A packed auditorium with hot lights, music, loud speakers and constant cheers and clapping is not an everyday occurrence for any dog. Unfortunately, after a further wait whilst inside the Arena, Tori had become quite agitated. I had tried to calm her by allowing her move around a little but was repeatedly told that I must not let the dog move at all. By the time we were judged Tori was in a high level of distress and was struggling to cope with the situation, which seemed to worsen after the judges rough handling, whilst checking the teeth, of a clearly stressed dog. Tori's uncharacteristic erratic behaviour has clearly given a bad impression of what I consider a GSD of the highest standard in both construction and health test results.

German Shepherd Breeders lead the World in their attention to health testing and breeding selection and whilst they must not be complacent about any exaggerations in conformation or temperament, the breed should not be victimised in this way by the Kennel Club, the media and social media.

German Shepherd exhibitors have a viable alternative to Kennel Club shows and it is of no surprise that more and more are turning their back on traditional UK shows in favour of the WUSV style show where DNA recording, identification and health tests are pre-requisites, not afterthoughts. All dogs are graded and critiqued so that their owners and breeders are given a clear picture of what they need to do to improve in the next generation. This is a great responsibility for the judges who are trained to a high level and have to have considerable experience as breeders before they are approved.

The GSD League will continue to strive to consult with the Kennel Club on matters regarding health of the GSD and hope that our suggestion of piloting compulsory identification of all exhibits, health testing prior to confirmation of Champion title and mandatory minimum health test requirements for all breeding animals will one day become a reality.

German Shepherd Dog League
_
_www.gsdleague.co.uk_

_www.gsdl-brg.co.uk_

_www.gsdleague-workingbranch.com_


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

SingingWhippet said:


> That border is a cracking little thing.


I was lucky enough to meet that dog at a show last summer and give it a snuggle.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> Copied from FB.
> 
> _Re GSD Best of Breed at Crufts 2016
> 
> ...


To me that highlights just how out of touch people are where the breed is concerned. They just cannot or will not recognise what many other equally experienced GSD and dog experts in general can see with the show breed shepherd. I am not concerned how experienced the judges are either, they should not be awarding top accolades to a dog that is so obviously well short of the breed standard guidelines laid down many decades ago and to which Susan Cuthbert claimed in a newspaper article yesterday, she follows. This dog most certainly does not meet the following:-

The Upper Line runs from the base of the neck via the high, long withers and via the *straight back* towards the slightly sloping croup, without visible interruption. The back is moderately long, firm, strong and well-muscled. The loin is broad, short, strongly developed and well-muscled. The croup should be long and slightly sloping (approx. 23o to the horizontal) and the upper line should merge into the base of the tail without interruption.

The dogs conformation was appalling, a complete travesty and its high time organisations like the GSDL recognised this inescapable fact. The exaggerated sloping back and malformed hind limbs look horrendous and cause long term health issues, end of!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

I really do think the KC need to forget about their image and deal with issues like this in the way which most benefits pedigree dogs as a whole. Currently what they're doing is just damage limitation, they're just making all the right noises in the hope that the media and general public will forget GSD-gate and things can just carry on as they are. I don't think it's any coincidence that the KC is making all this fuss over the GSD and saying nothing about the peke (who was arguably in a worse state) when the former is being crucified by the media and general public but the latter is actually receiving some positive attention, both in the papers and on social media.

The KC's focus should be improving (or preserving) the health, fitness and welfare of all their recognised breeds, not placating people who just like to decry Crufts, showing and pedigrees in general from the outside. I go on various other, non-dog related forums and there are _always_ Crufts bashing threads around this time and yet the most vehement posters don't say a word about dogs the rest of the year. The long term health, and even in some cases the very existence, of the breeds they recognise needs to be paramount for the KC, not improving their image in the eyes of people who aren't actually bothered about dogs for 361 days of the year.

I think that the KC really needs to consider whether it's time for them to become hardline about health testing, minimum fitness requirements, performance testing, approved outcrossing, COI restrictions, etc. Yes, they may drive some owners/breeders/exhibitors away but things cannot carry on as they are indefinitely. Although the KC makes the odd improvement here and there it's clear from some of the dogs we've seen at Crufts this year that it's just not enough. I'm sure they're worried about a short term loss of revenue but the KC will only be as long lived as the breeds it recognises and if they fall to ruin because of closed registries, optional health testing and no requirements for dogs to actually be "fit for function" it doesn't take a genius to work out that the KC will soon follow.


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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

How can anyone say this? "_Cruaghaire Catoria is a correct type to the German Shepherd Dog standard" 
if 
"The Upper Line runs from the base of the neck via the high, long withers and via the *straight back* towards the slightly sloping croup, without visible interruption. The back is moderately long, firm, strong and well-muscled. The loin is broad, short, strongly developed and well-muscled. The croup should be long and slightly sloping (approx. 23o to the horizontal) and the upper line should merge into the base of the tail without interruption."

is the breed standard????
She may well have been upset by all the hullabaloo but it doesn't change the fact that her dramatically sloping back is bound to cause health/joint problems.
To me her back legs looked too long for the height of her rump.
Breed standards should be set so dogs can live a healthy natural life & not be moulded to suit the crazy perceptions of some beholders eyes._


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Oooooooh that's not good! Not good at all!
> 
> Nice bit of nepotism going on too it seems...





cbcdesign said:


> This makes me so bloody angry and its why I detest Crufts! Once again judges who as far as I am concerned are not fit to clean up my dogs deposits give an award to a dog that can barely move and encourages further breeding of this abomination. Shame on every one of the people involved in this repulsive destruction of the breed I love. The lot of them should be in prison as far as I am concerned.
> 
> When will this nonsense end?
> 
> ...


Imaginary rep!


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

It's on the BBC news channel now


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2016)

Out of curiosity I just looked up footage of the GSD in the ring. She was most definitely very nervous, which BTW is incorrect temperament for the breed. Unsettled in that environment is to be expected, nerves to the point she was showing... debatable. 
I’m not going to get in to her conformation, that’s obvious. 
Did anyone else notice how visibly she dragged her left hind? The top of her foot was dragging on the ground with every stride. That’s not a nervous dog issue, that’s a structure issue. 

I have a mutt dog with a dodgy hind leg and not ideal conformation, and even he can manage to get his feet off the ground - even when agitated....


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Copied from FB.
> Re GSD Best of Breed at Crufts 2016


Oh, good grief!


Dogloverlou said:


> The GSD League condemns most strongly the manner in which the Kennel Club and the Crufts presenters have created public hysteria regarding the German Shepherd Bitch who gained Best of Breed at Crufts 2016 under breed specialist judge, Davy Hall.


Correction, Crufts and the Kennel Club did not _create _the public hysteria, they _reacted _to it.


Dogloverlou said:


> With complete disregard for all of the many breed specialist judges, including highly regarded judges from the breed's country of origin, that have awarded this bitch top honours at both Kennel Club and WUSV shows, the Channel 4 coverage acted as judge, jury and hangman without any balance of reporting.


Thank you for acknowledging that the problem goes much wider than just this one incident, and in actually endemic throughout the GSD showing world. If a breed gets so extreme that the general public are widely concerned, you've effectively made your own rope.


Dogloverlou said:


> Cruaghaire Catoria is a correct type to the German Shepherd Dog standard, she has a KC/BVA hip score of 13 and elbow score of 0. She is a fit, healthy, family dog.


Your breed standard says: "The Upper Line runs from the base of the neck via the high, long withers and *via the straight back* towards the slightly sloping croup", not 'via a back curved like a EU regulation banana'


Dogloverlou said:


> The judge, Davy Hall, of the Gayville's GSDs kennels has been an exhibitor and breeder of GSDs for many years having bred, owned, trained and handled many top winning animals and Champions including the current breed CC record holder.


And the Unabomber hand crafted fine, high quality, individually tailored explosive devices. Doesn't make it _right_...


Dogloverlou said:


> After being awarded Best of Breed, Catoria was then passed by the appointed Crufts vet to certify that she was fit and healthy to enter the big ring. She had passed another vet health check 6 months earlier. Indeed, no GSD has ever failed a vet health test at a Championship Show since they were introduced as part of the KC's Breed Watch.


Being fit and healthy in that context != being a fit and healthy specimen of the breed overall, necessarily


Dogloverlou said:


> German Shepherd Dogs are generally shown outside and certainly very few have ever experienced anything like the Crufts Best In Show ring. This young bitch performed extremely well in her breed ring but shortly afterwards in the main arena became overwhelmed by the environment and did not show her true beauty or proper movement, she was not the only dog to react badly to the pressure of the situation. Her internationally renowned handler Craig Rice, who has handled at the top level for many years, explained what took place in the lead up to the group judging and in the main arena….
> After a foot perfect performance in the GSD Breed ring, where Tori gained Best of Breed in a high quality entry that included 2 VA rated Dogs,


You appear to have missed the fact that footage from the breed ring, which is freely available online, is attracting just as much condemnation and of more than just the BoB winner?


Dogloverlou said:


> we were taken to do the KC appointed Vet Check. The Vet stated that there was absolutely no possible reason that he could not pass Tori as she showed no signs of bad health and her movement was not impaired in any way. This test included movement of the dog.


Movement not being impaired is not the same as the moment not being natural or healthy. Does the vet have a sideline in Fit for Work assessments, perchance?


Dogloverlou said:


> After a long wait of over 3 hours, which includes numerous forced photo shoots in the Crufts Best of Breed collection ring, we were finally abruptly told we would be entering the main Arena. This is a situation that no owner, trainer or handler can prepare for. A packed auditorium with hot lights, music, loud speakers and constant cheers and clapping is not an everyday occurrence for any dog. Unfortunately, after a further wait whilst inside the Arena, Tori had become quite agitated. I had tried to calm her by allowing her move around a little but was repeatedly told that I must not let the dog move at all. By the time we were judged Tori was in a high level of distress and was struggling to cope with the situation, which seemed to worsen after the judges rough handling, whilst checking the teeth, of a clearly stressed dog


The perhaps you should be looking to get the rules changed in the interests of the wellbeing of the dog, or simply encouraging owners/handlers to choose to put the wellbeing of the dog first and foremost and withdraw from a Final if the dog is distressed.


Dogloverlou said:


> Tori's uncharacteristic erratic behaviour has clearly given a bad impression of what I consider a GSD of the highest standard in both construction and health test results.


No, Tori hasn't let herself down or given a bad impression of herself. The GSD community has let HER down by pursuing and praising a look that is clearly not in the best interests of the animals themselves.


Dogloverlou said:


> German Shepherd Breeders lead the World in their attention to health testing and breeding selection and whilst they must not be complacent about any exaggerations in conformation or temperament, the breed should not be victimised in this way by the Kennel Club, the media and social media.


Who said the breed is being victimised? GSDs are a fabulous breed, and the outcry is because people are concerned their general health is being ruined in the pursuit of an artifical 'beauty' that, at best, is a gross misinterpretation of the breed standard, and a worst a pursuit of a look so extreme the breed may never recover from it.


Dogloverlou said:


> German Shepherd exhibitors have a viable alternative to Kennel Club shows and it is of no surprise that more and more are turning their back on traditional UK shows in favour of the WUSV style show where DNA recording, identification and health tests are pre-requisites, not afterthoughts. All dogs are graded and critiqued so that their owners and breeders are given a clear picture of what they need to do to improve in the next generation. This is a great responsibility for the judges who are trained to a high level and have to have considerable experience as breeders before they are approved.
> The GSD League will continue to strive to consult with the Kennel Club on matters regarding health of the GSD and hope that our suggestion of piloting compulsory identification of all exhibits, health testing prior to confirmation of Champion title and mandatory minimum health test requirements for all breeding animals will one day become a reality.
> German Shepherd Dog League
> www.gsdleague.co.uk
> ...


Well, it would be a start. But surely it would also be a good idea for the breed enthusiasts themselves to reconsider their interpretation of the breed, and move away from the roach back fashion to the original straight back conformation. I suspect you'd find that in doing that, you'd also reduce many of the health issues GSDs are currently known for, and as breed advocates, surely their health and wellbeing should be your primary concern?

</rant>


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Out of curiosity I just looked up footage of the GSD in the ring. She was most definitely very nervous, which BTW is incorrect temperament for the breed. Unsettled in that environment is to be expected, nerves to the point she was showing... debatable.
> I'm not going to get in to her conformation, that's obvious.
> Did anyone else notice how visibly she dragged her left hind? The top of her foot was dragging on the ground with every stride. That's not a nervous dog issue, that's a structure issue.
> 
> I have a mutt dog with a dodgy hind leg and not ideal conformation, and even he can manage to get his feet off the ground - even when agitated....


I noticed that too. Last dog I saw dragging her hind toes like that was one of mine not long before we had her PTS due to severe spondylitis (and a whole host of other things)


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Same old same old.......................When will they stop breeding deformed dogs


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## StrawberryBlonde (May 27, 2015)

My face just sank when the Pekingese won the group & sank further when I saw the GSD. Its hard to defend Crufts when this happens.
HOWEVER here something fun, my girl Skye made the TV at the end of Saturdays show :Woot I screamed with excitement, I couldn't wait to show everyone but I'm only just back from B'ham.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

I saw her! Xx


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Just thinking about the BIS winner this year and it just occurred to me that the last Westie winner was 26 years ago, the RBIS winner to Ch Olac Moon Pilot was also a Whippet!

Talk about history repeating itself


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