# Kitten and Cat fighting CONSTANTLY :-(



## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

Hi everyone,

I am new to this site due to my cats sending me insane with their apparent hatred for one another.

I have had Gracie now for around a year and adopted her from a local Fosterer for our local cats protection. They think she was around 1/2 years old at the time. When we went to see her, she was with two of her kittens who were 12 weeks old at the time. We fell in love with her and her tortie gorgeousness and took her home (We would have never left her!).

She settled in well, was nervous at first but it wasnt long before she was poddling on mine and my boyfriends knees and settling down for a nap. After a few weeks, she was coming for a cuddle before bed every night, not overly lovable but enjoyed our company and after an hour or so would leave us and go and sleep on the spare bed. She started to go outside and loved it, got on well with the neighbours cats (who have 3) and always sat on the garden with them with no fighting or issues whatsoever.

In April this year we made the decision to adopt another Cat. We were advised to go for a kitten as this is apparently easier to introduce to a Cat. We went to see a 12 week old ginger Tom, again fell in love with him and called him Geoff. When he viewed him he did seem very playful and was climbing up the bars etc so I kind of knew what to expect. We tried our best with the introduction process (providing a sanctuary room for him, feeding Gracie outside of the room so she associated a good think like eating with his scent). This went on for 5 days and we finally started opening the door and introducing the two. At first, she was wary and hissed a bit but not overly. But once he found his feet and was wandering around the house we realised how playful he really was. Ever since he left the sanctuary room fully (after the 5 days), the issues began.

Now, 5 months on, we cannot seem to stop Geoff from leaping on Gracies back as soon as he sees her. This has lead to Gracie living outside (apart from coming in for food). As soon as she sees him she is constantly growling, hissing, spitting etc and I can see how stressed she has become. I feel terrible, and I feel like I have let her down almost. Her personality has changed, which I expected but I never thought it would affect her this much. The has been occasions where if Geoff is sleepy, he will leave her and they have slept on the spare bed together for an hour or so. I understand that they will probably never love each other, or be friends, but I would really like to work towards them tolerating each other.

To add to this, Geoff isn't currently outdoors fully yet. We leave the door open when we are home from work and at weekends but he still comes back in to go to the toilet and much prefers to be indoors. Hopefully when he is bigger we can leave him out with the door shut. However we had an incident a few weeks ago where he got stuck, panicked, and came in panting and laid on the floor in a panic. We took the decision not to keep him out after this until he grew a little more.

We have tried toys, feliways, the lot, but Geoff seems to want only one thing to play with/attack and that's Gracie!

Geoff is a very lovable kitten. We cannot go to the loo without him hearing even a drop of wee, before hes raced to our side and jumped on our knees! He jumps on my boyfriends shoulders and lets him walk around with him like a parrot. He sleeps on my head, and anywhere where we are he wants to be. He even runs down stairs when I come home from work, and if I kneel to the floor to stroke him he is meowing, purring and jumping up at me just like a puppy. He is just the perfect kitten in this sense. I love them both so much and really want to sort this situation out.

Can any of you experienced Cat/Kitten owners help? I am hoping that I am rushing things, and once he grows up a little he will calm down. But the past 5 months have really made me worry that I have affected Gracie and been irresponsible by getting Geoff. Any help/reassurance would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you x


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)




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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hello @oliviaefrost1993 and welcome 

It sounds as though poor Gracie is having an awful time, bless her! As it has got so bad she is only coming indoors to eat, action needs to be taken to protect her rights so she can enjoy her home in safety.

Can I just check with you that Geoff has been neutered? If he is neutered did you have him done _after_ he already he started jumping on Gracie's back? If so it may be that he will never entirely stop the behaviour.

For a female cat who is spayed it is particularly unwelcome and intimidating to have a male cat jumping on their back as it suggests the male is trying to mate with them.

Right now you need to go back to square one and separate the two cats, Geoff back to his sanctuary so Gracie can have the run of the house. You will need to keep them separate and out of sight of each other possibly for several weeks now until Gracie feels safe enough to come back indoors.

Once Gracie is back indoors I recommend you buy a cheap screen door and fit it in the doorway of Geoff's room and then start allowing the two cats to see and smell each other through the screen without direct contact. You must be guided by Gracie, do not rush things and only when she has stopped showing any negative response to Geoff should you allow them to have direct contact, always under your supervision.

Do not feed Gracie near Geoff's door, cats who are not in the same social group (which your two are not) do not naturally share resources, so they would never choose to eat near each other.

Both cats, once they are sharing the whole house together, must have separate feeding stations, at least 10 ft apart and out of sight of each other. This should be a permanent arrangement.

Add multiple resources such as litter trays (at least 3 or 4), water bowls, cat beds, cat trees, scratch posts and pads, high up places to sleep.

If you manage to get the two cats sharing the same space, do not ever allow Geoff to jump on Gracie, or chase her. He many be playing (possibly) but she hates it and there is no reason why she should have to put up with it. Protect her, lift her out of Geoff's way if he is getting annoying and train Gracie to jump up onto a chair, table or cat tree to get away from Geoff. He won't chase her then .

If you don't manage to intervene in time to stop Gracie being hassled, comfort her so she knows she can count on your for support,.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Aww, Gracie is gorgeous - I love torties!  . And Geoff is very, very cute - I have a ginger cat too, my special boy, 

Great photos.


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

Hello!

Thank you so much for the help/support!

Yes he was neutered by the shelter very young, before we'd even gotten him! He's always done it even though he's been neutered! I'm almost sure he's playing as he's so distracted by everything and you can grab his attention by even moving your foot. Do you think if I made a constant effort to distract him when Gracie is around (I.e playing with him etc), this would help until we can put the above which you have recommended into place? It's very easy to get his attention and he's very interested in everything! Only problem is, Gracie is never in at the moment so it's difficult to see if anything is working. For instance, when I got home from work around an hour ago, I fed Geoff, once he'd finished I put him straight outdoors (trying to toilet train him and stop him using the tray). I then let Gracie in the same door and she was fine, once she'd eaten, she had a wander round the living room and meowed a bit, jumped up with me and back down and then went to the door again. She then sat (Geoff no where In sight, not even through the French door) at the door huffing puffing and hissing to herself to get out  I just can't work her behaviour out.

I will start putting all of your advice into place for sure. It's difficult to get my boyfriend on board because he's very "fight it out" minded. But I know that never works with cats!



chillminx said:


> Hello @oliviaefrost1993 and welcome
> 
> It sounds as though poor Gracie is having an awful time, bless her! As it has got so bad she is only coming indoors to eat, action needs to be taken to protect her rights so she can enjoy her home in safety.
> 
> ...


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

@chillminx 


oliviaefrost1993 said:


> Hello!
> 
> Thank you so much for the help/support!
> 
> ...


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Please explain to your B/F that when cats 'fight it out' it means that one cat will be the victor and will claim all the territory and the other cat will leave to find new territory (a new home). This is an indisputable fact about cat behaviour and ownership of territory, and even though your B/F may not like it, he won't change it I'm afraid.

Please ask your BF if he is prepared to take the risk that Gracie will move out and find herself a new home? Because the way things are going at present this is very likely to happen. I promise you I am not exaggerating.

The process of her moving out has already started i.e. she is staying out a lot, to keep out of Geoff's way. You need to nip this in the bid immediately before it has gone too far. The way to do that is to put Geoff in his safe room so that Gracie can learn gradually it is safe for her to come back indoors and reclaim her territory. It is her right to do so, as she was there before Geoff. There is no reason why she should be forced to defend her territory - or leave. Which when it comes down to it is basically what your BF is saying should happen. Poor Gracie 

EDIT - keeping Geoff distracted is not going to work at present as Gracie has lost all her trust and confidence. She needs to be given back her territory and the way to achieve this is to put Geoff in his own safe room. The screen door does not need to be fitted for a few weeks yet. The whole reintroduction needs to be carried out very slowly, at a pace that suits Gracie. Be guided by her.


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

Thanks, I will explain that!

I feel like our saving Grace at the moment is that we have a cat flap in the shed which we fitted last winter with a bed in it for when it is cold etc (we don't have a cat flap). She has always loved it in there. I feel like the situation can get better, and it's Geoff that's the issue not her. For instance like I said earlier, she was wanting to go back out straight after eating. But weirdly 10 minutes ago she came back as Geoff is out, and is now asleep upstairs which is very Rare at the moment. Geoff is still outside now so I feel maybe now is the time when he is ready to come in to pop him in the safe room straight away?

@chillminx


chillminx said:


> Please explain to your B/F that when cats 'fight it out' it means that one cat will be the victor and will claim all the territory and the other cat will leave to find new territory (a new home). This is an indisputable fact about cat behaviour and ownership of territory, and even though your B/F may not like it, he won't change it I'm afraid.
> 
> Please ask your BF if he is prepared to take the risk that Gracie will move out and find herself a new home? Because the way things are going at present this is very likely to happen. I promise you I am not exaggerating.
> 
> The process of her moving out has already started i.e. she is staying out a lot, to keep out of Geoff's way. You need to nip this in the bid immediately before it has gone too far. The way to do that is to put Geoff in his safe room so that Gracie can learn gradually it is safe for her to come back indoors and reclaim her territory. It is her right to do so, as she was there before Geoff. There is no reason why she should be forced to defend her territory - or leave. Which when it comes down to it is basically what your BF is saying should happen. Poor Gracie


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## claire8234 (Mar 8, 2013)

I echo the good advice this has been given. The same thing happened to us. We adopted a kitten we were fostering and tried to introduce the kitten to our resident cat. 

We did it gradually but our resident cat just wasnt happy. He also started living outside and stopped eating as much. 

In the end we felt the fairest thing to do was give the kitten back to the shelter. 

30mins after the kitten was gone our older cat was back in the house. 

You need to separate both cats, let the older cat be happy in the house before you attempt any introduction and go at your cats pace. If she is unhappy or goes outside again then slow down. 

You may have to accept your cats will never get on and if you plan to keep tuem both they will need to be permanently separated. If the kitten starts going outside you have no way of keeping them apart and it gets very difficult.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I am glad to hear she does have a bolt hole (the shed with a bed in) but you would not want her out there all the time of course. I hope there is a microchip cat flap on the door with only her chip scanned so Geoff cannot get in there. This is important. If you have scanned Geoff's chip, reset the scanner and just scan Gracie's chip. 

Also glad to hear Gracie is coming indoors when Geoff is out, but the fact she is on edge, hissing to get out shows how distressed she feels atm.


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

Thank you @chillminx i will try my best and hopefully something posistivd will come at the end of our efforts!



chillminx said:


> I am glad to hear she does have a bolt hole (the shed with a bed in) but you would not want her out there all the time of course. I hope there is a microchip cat flap on the door with only her chip scanned so Geoff cannot get in there. This is important. If you have scanned Geoff's chip, reset the scanner and just scan Gracie's chip.
> 
> Also glad to hear Gracie is coming indoors when Geoff is out, but the fact she is on edge, hissing to get out shows how distressed she feels atm.


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

Thank you for your advice @claire8234



claire8234 said:


> I echo the good advice this has been given. The same thing happened to us. We adopted a kitten we were fostering and tried to introduce the kitten to our resident cat.
> 
> We did it gradually but our resident cat just wasnt happy. He also started living outside and stopped eating as much.
> 
> ...


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Please let us know how things go @oliviaefrost1993  . I have fingers crossed you can reintegrate the two of them. Good luck


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

UPDATE!

I know it's been less than 24 hours, but I took your advice @chillminx and re introduced the safe room for Geoff since last night. My boyfriend fed Gracie this morning, and when she'd finished eating she came straight into our bedroom meowing and jumped in the bed with me and settled on my chest

I know it's early days but we will persist with this and hopefully see some results. thank you so much for your help. We have left our kitchen window open for Gracie to come and go as she pleases, and she seems to be doing just that now



chillminx said:


> Please let us know how things go @oliviaefrost1993  . I have fingers crossed you can reintegrate the two of them. Good luck


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

@claire8234


oliviaefrost1993 said:


> UPDATE!
> 
> I know it's been less than 24 hours, but I took your advice @chillminx and re introduced the safe room for Geoff since last night. My boyfriend fed Gracie this morning, and when she'd finished eating she came straight into our bedroom meowing and jumped in the bed with me and settled on my chest
> 
> I know it's early days but we will persist with this and hopefully see some results. thank you so much for your help. We have left our kitchen window open for Gracie to come and go as she pleases, and she seems to be doing just that now


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Excellent news!


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## Lisa2701 (May 15, 2010)

As always great advice given already. One thing I did think was important to mention is you taking responsibility of being an outlet for Geoffs energy. If you haven't already then I'd buy a wand type toy.... the flying frenzy or similar are fab and several times a day you play with him and exhaust him!! Play hard, get him moving, jumping on and off furniture, running etc . Get him panting, then give him a few minutes to catch his breath and then do it all again and repeat until you think he's let off as much steam as he needs to. You want to do that several times a day with him being such a high energy lad, 3-4 times at least and before meals if possible. That will help burn off all that energy he has, which will help with him being confined to one room at the moment and then further down the line if/when the reintroductions happen he will hopefully not feel the need to pounce on Gracie. 

Good luck with everything, I hope it all works out.


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

@Lisa2701 Thank you very much for your help, that's a great idea!



Lisa2701 said:


> As always great advice given already. One thing I did think was important to mention is you taking responsibility of being an outlet for Geoffs energy. If you haven't already then I'd buy a wand type toy.... the flying frenzy or similar are fab and several times a day you play with him and exhaust him!! Play hard, get him moving, jumping on and off furniture, running etc . Get him panting, then give him a few minutes to catch his breath and then do it all again and repeat until you think he's let off as much steam as he needs to. You want to do that several times a day with him being such a high energy lad, 3-4 times at least and before meals if possible. That will help burn off all that energy he has, which will help with him being confined to one room at the moment and then further down the line if/when the reintroductions happen he will hopefully not feel the need to pounce on Gracie.
> 
> Good luck with everything, I hope it all works out.


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## Lisa2701 (May 15, 2010)

He's a beautiful boy! I love gingers and he's a cracker! And sounds like a real cheeky chap which I also love haha. Just a shame he's tormenting poor Gracie. Hope things work out for you x


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

Thank you very much. @Lisa2701

Gracie has been in and out of the house all day and seems fine - no hissing! She even rolled over in front of me when I sat on the floor which is very much unlike her.

Really hoping things work out X



Lisa2701 said:


> He's a beautiful boy! I love gingers and he's a cracker! And sounds like a real cheeky chap which I also love haha. Just a shame he's tormenting poor Gracie. Hope things work out for you x


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## BandB (Apr 4, 2014)

I'm going through a very difficult intro myself at the moment and I'm into my 9th week. It goes slowly. With my first two cats it took about a week but this is different situation with different cats. Play is vital and I suggest lots of play with your boy cat, flying frenzy is great. Remember don't let him catch it initially. Think how it would be in the wild for a cat. Slow it down eventually like the prey is tiring then let him catch it. A bit of food after is good too. 
Intros can take more time than we first think. The cats dictate the pace. Good luck, it's hard work but worth it.


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

@BandB thank you! And thanks for the advice, It's nice to know I'm not alone in this situation



BandB said:


> I'm going through a very difficult intro myself at the moment and I'm into my 9th week. It goes slowly. With my first two cats it took about a week but this is different situation with different cats. Play is vital and I suggest lots of play with your boy cat, flying frenzy is great. Remember don't let him catch it initially. Think how it would be in the wild for a cat. Slow it down eventually like the prey is tiring then let him catch it. A bit of food after is good too.
> Intros can take more time than we first think. The cats dictate the pace. Good luck, it's hard work but worth it.


T


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

I have not had this in months! And we're 24 hours in!!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Excellent news! I am so pleased. I think you've acted in time to reverse the way things were going! Well done.


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

Thank you!! All down to your help 



chillminx said:


> Excellent news! I am so pleased. I think you've acted in time to reverse the way things were going! Well done.


Th


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## GuEsEaK (Oct 3, 2017)

Hello, 
So we are having, almost word for word, the same situation. 
3 year old Poppy, has had the house to herself for about a year and a half. Got the kitten Nico at the end of July. 
Kept them apart for about two weeks. Did scent swapping and room swapping. Have the 'friends' pheromone plugs all over the house. 
Introduced them and Poppy (3yr) was hyper weary. 
She started living more and more outside. Would hardly come in to eat. When they would get close they would sniff and then Poppy would bash the kitten over the head.
Things seemed to cool down a bit. Poppy would come in more but only if she didn't see the kitten. But Poppy would still bash her and hiss at her. Then the kitten got a bit bigger and started chasing Poppy. Poppy just lives on the worktop and table. When she gets down the kitten still chases her. 
Then recently Poppy has started coming in and sitting near us. She will sleep inside. But is still obviously stressed around the kitten. 
Their interactions are either 'cold war' ignoring each other (rare) or the kitten is chasing her and they are fighting. 
At the same time I think the kitten is desperate for attention from Poppy. She will try to edge close to her if Poppy is sleeping, trying to be near her but not attack her. 
But when Poppy is walking around the kitten will chase and tackle her.

I've read your story and this week we have kept them apart during the day and at night but let the kitten out for a breather while trying to monitor there is no chasing.

I feel at wits end. I feel like everyone involved is miserable.

Does the kitten, now 6 months old, need to be in a room 24/7? I feel like I can't rationalise that. Having her by herself all the time.



oliviaefrost1993 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am new to this site due to my cats sending me insane with their apparent hatred for one another.
> 
> ...


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

Hi!

Thank you for your reply it's good to see that I'm not alone.

We kept this up for two weeks and eventually they bumped into each other again (he escaped) For a while it was OK, we kept everything separate (food, litter etc) and we still do now. She is still grumpy and the only thing that seems to be working right now is one in and one out and alternating that way. Geoff (kitten) is calming down as he grows up. Now he's been out a lot more, he sleeps much much more and keeps out of her way but it is difficult to get her to want to stay inside. 
Some days she will come and lay next to us and some days not. She still hisses often but she's never aggressive in any other way. Still let's me fuss her etc and sleeps on the bed occasionally.

It was hard keeping him separate. He was ruining the bottom of the door, crying etc and he's a very needy kitten which made it hard.

I've spoken to lots of people who have multiple cat households and apparently they will eventually settle. I would try just keeping one in and letting one out at a time and fingers crossed this helps for you as it has me so far! X



GuEsEaK said:


> Hello,
> So we are having, almost word for word, the same situation.
> 3 year old Poppy, has had the house to herself for about a year and a half. Got the kitten Nico at the end of July.
> Kept them apart for about two weeks. Did scent swapping and room swapping. Have the 'friends' pheromone plugs all over the house.
> ...


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

Just an update for all of you who are also struggling with this and see no way out! Since this post I've had an absolute break through (see picture!) I can't believe it! Thank you everyone for your help


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@oliviaefrost1993 - well done! Excellent news.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@GuEsEaK - I hope things are more harmonious now between Poppy and your kitten.


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## oliviaefrost1993 (Sep 8, 2017)

We still get a lot of hissing from gracie, but I never thought they'd lay next to each other like this It's so much better. Thanks again.



chillminx said:


> @oliviaefrost1993 - well done! Excellent news.


WWE 


chillminx said:


> @oliviaefrost1993 - well done! Excellent news.


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