# Is "Sorry" difficult?



## tailtickle (Mar 19, 2012)

If someone passes me and mine with their dog, and their dog starts barking at us, we rarely hear - "Sorry" - (from the Owner, not the dog)! LOL.

Is that a usual experience of anyone else?


tailtickle x


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I wouldnt expect a sorry TBH as their dog hasnt really done anything to be apologetic about IMO.

But we come across dogs behaving far worse than that towards us and an apology is never forthcoming from the other owner. I think many people dont think their dog has actually done anything wrong, they cant seem to recognise inappropriate behaviour. But a dog just barking at us isnt something i'm bothered about. I can pretty much guarantee that Flynn could out-bark it anyway


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Leanne77 said:


> I wouldnt expect a sorry TBH as their dog hasnt really done anything to be apologetic about IMO.
> 
> But we come across dogs behaving far worse than that towards us and an apology is never forthcoming from the other owner. I think many people dont think their dog has actually done anything wrong, they cant seem to recognise inappropriate behaviour. But a dog just barking at us isnt something i'm bothered about. I can pretty much guarantee that Flynn could out-bark it anyway


I would say that a dog barking at another dog or person is the height of bad manners. No idea if people apologise or not though as never met it.


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## golfchick (Mar 18, 2010)

on the extremely rare occasion this happens, Ziva wants to say hi and isnt permitted, Im too busy giving her a firm no and correction than to apologise tbf.


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## Janey D (Jul 27, 2012)

I do generally say sorry if Bertie barks and lunges, although whether this is necessary is debatable. He is always on lead and never allowed to approach other dogs or people. However I would also love to be able to tell people that he is a rescue who was badly treated by his previous owners and we are working really hard to put things right. 

I am usually concentrating so hard on getting my dog to do watch me though that there isnt much opportunity to speak! We get lots of dirty looks, and comments about our dog being aggressive or badly behaved and it used to bother me but doesnt any more.

On the other side of the coin it would be nice sometimes if dog owners, joggers, cyclists and horse riders said thank you when we get out of the way and do watch me! Sometimes I end up ankle deep in mud, in bushes or nettles to get off the path and I dont really mind but I rarely get thanked!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Heidi often barks at other dogs and I sometimes say sorry! More often though I talk to her by way of explanation ('I know you're scared...just stay away then') so they know that she isnt aggressive, just petrified. Then I get more sympathetic looks from other dog walkers TBH!


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## tailtickle (Mar 19, 2012)

Leanne77 said:


> *I wouldnt expect a sorry TBH as their dog hasnt really done anything to be apologetic about IMO.*
> 
> But we come across dogs behaving far worse than that towards us and an apology is never forthcoming from the other owner. I think many people dont think their dog has actually done anything wrong, they cant seem to recognise inappropriate behaviour. But a dog just barking at us isnt something i'm bothered about. I can pretty much guarantee that Flynn could out-bark it anyway


I have to politely disagree with you. If someone's dog is barking at us (and for no good reason, as I am not threatening). Plus I am then having to ensure that my own dogs disregard the other dog - or a situation _could_ escalate!

For an Owner to think this is even acceptable from their dog is even more surprising! hmy:

My dogs bark on command, if I did that, I would feel certain to receive some very worried and 'choice' remarks!

tailtickle


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

We have quite a few round her that bark at mine, a couple of jack russels a poodle and 2 yorkies, never the bigger dogs for some reason, mine dont bother anyway never bark back, they arnt really barky dogs anyway, but rarely is there a sorry i think the owner look a bit embarrassed and just want to get away. I think they feel worse when the other dog/s dont bark back.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't really see why an apology is needed? Whenever my dog is acting up I'm more concerned with getting her behaviour under control than I am with apologising. And you say there's no reason for a dog to bark at you but really how do you know that's the case at all? How do you know the dog isn't a rescue who is terrified of strangers, or who hates hats or certain coats due to being abused? Dogs bark, it's what they do, I don't feel the need to be offended by it.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Out of politeness, yes an apology should be made - however sometimes, understandably the owner is pre occupied by controlling their dog.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Maybe the person is distracted because they are working on stopping their dog from barking?
Tia barks at other dogs onlead. I get it, it's annoying and people don't like it. 9/10 times I shout a 'sorry' if they're further away or if they're close I'll apologise and explain. But it goes both ways, I'm obviously trying to get her to stop and I still get people scowling at us. Fair enough if I was just letting her but I'm not. So yeah, it can be quite stressful so maybe that's why they don't always apologise.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I was always more focused on getting Rupert out of the situation he felt he needed to react in than apologising.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

If my dogs were to bark at a person or another dog then yes i would feel the need to apologise, for all i know the other dog could have issues and be scared of dogs barking if they barked at a person or child how do i know they arnt scared of dogs, so yes i think a sorry is in order to be honest.


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## FEJA JUODAS (May 19, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> I don't really see why an apology is needed? Whenever my dog is acting up I'm more concerned with getting her behaviour under control than I am with apologising. And you say there's no reason for a dog to bark at you but really how do you know that's the case at all? How do you know the dog isn't a rescue who is terrified of strangers, or who hates hats or certain coats due to being abused? Dogs bark, it's what they do, I don't feel the need to be offended by it.


STREWTH ! your dogs are THAT outta control !!!  you would get strong verbal abuse from many people around here for that ! such impoliteness is not tolerated by most reasonable people !

well maybe need some EDUCATING !!!!

as well as people like you i dare say here who think they do not owe apologies to people aggressed by their dogs !!!

how can anyone suggest as i see here that there is a GOOD REASON for the dog to bark ? has anything the person written suggested that ? from YOUR comments it seems YOUR dogs kick off barking for no good reason and you have problems stopping them !

well all those questions an aggressed person is supposed to ask !!! errr !!! i think it is THE OTHER WAY AROUND ! the DOG OWNER should be offering those statements answers to the aggresssed person first !!!

laws in the uk are long overdue for this kindda behaviour...private property attacks laws coming in soon..and tougher lines on dogs barking aggressively at strangers when out in public...take a read of some of the other threads here on that subject...the lawyers are getting ready ! and I AGREE ! if you cant control your dog BARKING at PEOPLE IN PUBLIC ? then GET THE DOGS OFF THE STREETS and EDUCATE them or dont take them out again!

rudeness is for sure perception...but dogs BARKING at people is a generally unacceptable unsocial thing to do...CHILDREN GET SCARED is the MAIN reason for needing APOLOGIES and EXPLANATIONS yes from the DOG OWNER !


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## penguin (Jan 2, 2013)

Owning a dog reactive dog is very very difficult and you feel embarrassed when your dog barks at others, we try our best to avoid situations where we encounter dogs especially ones that are off the lead. Lexie is a rescue case and came to us with these problems and we are working to overcome them. 
I don't apologise when Lexie barks but if I can I do explain the reasons why she is barking.


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## LahLahsDogs (Jul 4, 2012)

I think alot of people who have dogs that bark and react to others just try and keep out of the way as much as possible and sometimes they just rush past as quick as possible to get their dog back under control and avoid interaction and a chance for someone to say "Oi.. you're dog just had a go at mine".. I don't blame them to be fair, but if it upset the other dog maybe a quick "sorry" when passing would be the good manners thing to do..

But dogs do bark, and as long as there's no harm done, then never mind.. just crack on with your day


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

FEJA JUODAS said:


> STREWTH ! your dogs are THAT outta control !!!  you would get strong verbal abuse from many people around here for that ! such impoliteness is not tolerated by most reasonable people !
> 
> well maybe need some EDUCATING !!!!
> 
> ...


Sadly I didn't make it through your whole post (not for the first time) as your formatting makes me queasy.

However I've never stated my dog is 'that out of control', but I certainly don't think it's somehow a criminal offense that should be likened to 'aggressing somebody' when a dog barks. Dogs do bark afterall.  If my dog chooses to bark, there's certainly a reason for it, as with everything that she chooses to do.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

tailtickle said:


> If someone's dog is barking at us (and for no good reason, as I am not threatening).


Heidi is only 6Ibs.....pretty much everyone looks threatening to her!!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> Sadly I didn't make it through your whole post (not for the first time) as your formatting makes me queasy.
> 
> However I've never stated my dog is 'that out of control', but I certainly don't think it's somehow a criminal offense that should be likened to 'aggressing somebody' when a dog barks. Dogs do bark afterall.  If my dog chooses to bark, there's certainly a reason for it, as with everything that she chooses to do.


Ime sure dogs do bark for a reason but i do think its polite just to say sorry and quickly move on, we do less things, that dont actually upset of scare someone and still say sorry.


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## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

Rio doesn't bark but sometimes she whines REALLY loudly when she sees another dog, excitement and frustration of not getting to say hello and I always apologize. 

I don't feel I have to but I like to give a quick smile ad say sorry shes excited so they know that's all it is. GSD's can be intimidating to some people so I think it helps


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> Ime sure dogs do bark for a reason but i do think its polite just to say sorry and quickly move on, we do less things, that dont actually upset of scare someone and still say sorry.


I'd much rather get my dog to stop barking and settle down than allow her to continue on with it. Surely if you were frightened of dogs you'd prefer the dog to be calmed down than someone allow it to continue in order to say a meaningless apology?


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

^ in response to the post that Phoolf has also quoted (I didn't think it was necessary for it to be on the page 3 times lol..)
ahh i was too slow.. FJ, sorry can't remember your full username.
Idk where you're getting that people's dogs are really out of control from? We're talking about a bit of reactivity not an attack!
But they do bark for good reason. Maybe not to you, but in the dog's head, it has a reason. Ie. Tia barks when she's onlead because she's scared. To her, that's a good reason to bark.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

tiatortilla said:


> ^ in response to the post that Phoolf has also quoted (I didn't think it was necessary for that amount of text to be on the page 3 times lol..)
> Idk where you're getting that people's dogs are really out of control from? We're talking about a bit of reactivity not an attack!
> But they do bark for good reason. Maybe not to you, but in the dog's head, it has a reason. Ie. Tia barks when she's onlead because she's scared. To her, that's a good reason to bark.


Indeed.

And Kes rarely barks, let alone at people, but the management of the situation for me would be just the same. Out of control barking? I think not, but in the hypothetical where she is barking I would stop the barking instead of saying sorry. And if she was barking because someone with a dog was going past I would expect, as a fellow dog owner, that they didn't find barking such an awful thing.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> I'd much rather get my dog to stop barking and settle down than allow her to continue on with it. Surely if you were frightened of dogs you'd prefer the dog to be calmed down than someone allow it to continue in order to say a meaningless apology?


I was actually very scared of dogs at one time so i would have prefered for the owner to just move the dog on. Ime not saying there should be a written rule and ime not saying ide be offended, well ime not when owners dont/didnt apologise but if my dogs were to do it i would automatically say sorry, just incase they had caused a person or dog to be upset, just out of politeness if nothing else.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> I was actually very scared of dogs at one time so i would have prefered for the owner to just move the dog on. Ime not saying there should be a written rule and ime not saying ide be offended, well ime not when owners dont/didnt apologise but if my dogs were to do it i would automatically say sorry, just incase they had caused a person or dog to be upset, just out of politeness if nothing else.


Assuming said person could even hear you  Let's remember not all barks are equal


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Phoolf, tbf Tia does sound evil when she goes off on one, but I'll explain she's scared and not aggressive if I can, but I clearly have control over her even if she is barking and it's never at people, only other dogs. And I'll always cross the road and then try to distract her.. like, I'm just not sure what there is to complain about. I could not be trying any harder!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

tiatortilla said:


> Phoolf, tbf Tia does sound evil when she goes off on one, but I'll explain she's scared and not aggressive if I can, but I clearly have control over her even if she is barking and it's never at people, only other dogs. And I'll always cross the road and then try to distract her.. like, I'm just not sure what there is to complain about. I could not be trying any harder!


Exactly! I would think much more of someone who looked to be trying their best to manage the situation than someone who said sorry. Sorry doesn't really solve anything after all.


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## tailtickle (Mar 19, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> However I've never stated my dog is 'that out of control', but I certainly don't think it's somehow a criminal offense that should be likened to 'aggressing somebody' when a dog barks. *Dogs do bark afterall.  If my dog chooses to bark, there's certainly a reason for it, as with everything that she chooses to do.*




Dogs also _"choose"_ to wee/poo indoors - until, we train and teach them to go outside!

(I don't make or find an excuse for inappropriate behaviour from my dogs, I train and teach what is acceptable and what is not). We can then experience an enjoyable and trusting relationship.

tailtickle x


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

tailtickle said:


> [/I]
> 
> Dogs also _"choose"_ to wee/poo indoors - until, we train and teach them to go outside!
> 
> ...


That's nice. I am sure those with previously abused rescue dogs take note of your message that you can just seemingly magic away things YOU deem inappropriate. Or those with vocal breeds like GSD's. Perhaps you can tell us your cure to ensure that a dog never vocalises?

And as for 'inappropriate behaviour' that is somewhat subjective. I don't see a dog barking as inappropriate. If they moo'd or meow'd I'd find that most strange however.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

People often do here. 

Had a JRT who we know go off at Millie and Tobey yesterday. The lady was very apologetic. I was just shocked and surprised as he was on a flexi so was under my ones feet. Crazy pavement dancing commenced  

Maybe people are just politer in a village environment lol. 

This morning I walked on the road to pass a older lady with a small dog. She thanked me for giving her room and I said 'no problem at all' and we both wished each other a nice walk 

I also know of a dog in the village who freezes up and panics when it sees another dog. The owner has spoken to me when I haven't had Millie and explained about his dog. I always walk in the road or change pavements and he always says thank you. 

A bit of give / take - understanding of other dogs and owners goes along way.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I may or may not have apologised automatically when Rupert kicked off, I'm generally a polite person but as I say, my priority was getting him away from the situation not hanging around to say sorry and potentially having it escalate.

Spencer barked at someone today which is very unusual. I did apologise but have no idea whether I was heard over his noise or understood as I apologised in English. Afraid I'm not going to yell an apology or stand there trying to remember how to say sorry in German while my dog continues panicking. I may not have seen a reason for his fear but that didn't make him any less frightened.

I don't expect an apology if someones dog barks at me or my dog from a distance. If the dog ran up to me and did so it would be another matter.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

What kind of barking are we talking about?

If we are walking past somebody with their dog on lead and it barks, I dont see that as an issue for myself or my dogs, we all ignore it and allow the owner to get on with controlling their dog. If we are walking past a dog that is off lead and it comes towards us barking, I dont see that as an issue for me or my dogs either.

However, if it is a dog that is off lead and approaches us in an aggressive manner whilst barking then I would expect an apology. It is the behaviour that is accompanying the barking that I would have most issue with. We regularly come across a lady on the park with some kind of Podenco type hound. It will partially approach people and start barking (it never fully goes up to people or dogs, it doesnt have the balls). The dog will even follow people and continue to bark, almost like it's seeing them off. I take issue with this as the lady never offers more than a feeble "come on, dont be silly" whilst still allowing the behaviour to continue and it can be quite intimidating. This kind of barking requires an apology IMO as the dog isnt under control and there is the potential for the situation to escalate.

But a dog just barking in a non threatening manner or if it is under control (i.e on a lead) I dont have an issue with at all. It's all about context and TBF, the original post just mentioned dogs barking, it didnt mention other behaviour.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

tailtickle said:


> [/I](I don't make or find an excuse for inappropriate behaviour from my dogs, I train and teach what is acceptable and what is not).


That's not really a fair statement. Giving a reason for something isn't making an excuse and doesn't mean I'm not trying to teach my dog otherwise, but there is no overnight quick fix when they're barking because of fear, it takes time.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I always understand when dogs bark at us that they could have issues, something has unfortunately made them that way, then you can see some that its plain hasnt had an ounce of training discipline, dont ask me how but just know with how the owners react/deal with them. But i really dont think there is anything wrong with saying sorry, its polite,its only right because its not all about your dog in situations like this its about the other dog and/or person. 

I also think as well its a matter of how your dog has effected the other dog or person, mine just ignore them carry on as if nothing is going on, molly might on some occasions, which tells me the other dog is doing it through aggression walk round the back of me to the other side and pull on ahead quickly but if mine were barking and clearly freaking another dog or person out i would have to say sorry and i would expect them to say sorry to me if me or my dogs were clearly scared or upset by their dog.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

And, as this thread, and almost any other here on PF shows, what is acceptable for one person is unacceptable for another.

I have a dog who will bark at people if they appear out of the blue or are lurking in bushes etc (think birdwatchers and the like) - people who he deems are shifty basically and are somewhere where they normally arent. TBH, I dont apologise for this as he recalls straight away and I get him under control. This trait is also very handy for a female walking in quite places alone. 99% of the time my dogs ignore everybody but there is the odd occasion where they feel the need to bark at somebody.


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## tailtickle (Mar 19, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> That's nice. I am sure those with previously abused rescue dogs take note of your message that you can just seemingly magic away things YOU deem inappropriate. Or those with vocal breeds like GSD's. Perhaps you can tell us your cure to ensure that a dog never vocalises?
> 
> And as for 'inappropriate behaviour' that is somewhat subjective. I don't see a dog barking as inappropriate. If they moo'd or meow'd I'd find that most strange however.


Why is every "Rescue" dog deemed to be "abused"??? Sometimes, I feel it again gives an opportunity to excuse a behaviour. Do you think that I have not owned a Rescue dog or a dog from a home with issues? Now tell me, do you think that one of my dogs would make excuses to behave in a way that would not otherwise be natural because he/she thought, "Oh, this new addition to our family is a rescue dog or a dog with issues". No, they simply respond to a dog like a dog. I do think that sometimes, people make a situation far worse.

I don't use "magic" - just good sense, and no frills, that helps a dog feel confidence from me.

And, if you do not consider a dog barking at a someone passing by with their dogs (in relaxed mode) as not being _"inappropriate"_ - then there is nothing more to say!

tailtickle


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Leanne77 makes a very good point.. just to be clear I am talking at onlead "drive-by" barking.
If Tia ever ran over to another dog to bark at it offlead then I would be mortified and no amount of apologies would cover how bad I felt, I don't think that's something that can go without an apology!
To me, an under control dog barking is very different, even though I do usually apologise, it's only out of politeness not because I really think I *have* to.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

tailtickle said:


> And, if you do not consider a dog barking at a someone passing by with their dogs (in relaxed mode) as not being _"inappropriate"_ - then there is nothing more to say!
> 
> tailtickle


I agree that behaviour is inappropriate and we regularly come across dogs who bark like crazy things as we walk past, however much we are ignoring them and getting on with our walk. But as long as it's not affecting me or my dogs in a negative way then it never occurs to me that an apology might be needed. Perhaps thats because it seems to be quite a regular thing on our walks and maybe i've just accepted it without truly thinking about it.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

I am frequently astounded by the members on here with perfectly behaved well controlled dogs 

I have a barker, if I can and if the situation warrants it I will apologise, but not to a lot of the sanctimonious tutters we meet round here.

I have to laugh at the comments though, to a dog, barking is a totally appropriate behaviour, its only us that deems it inappropriate because it annoys us and we have taught our children to be scared. 

That seems the only reasonable argument put forward as to why an apology is necessary TBF and of course if my dog was aggressively lunging and barking at a child or adult or even if she was just doing excited play barking and the child/adult seemed sacred I would try to apologise and explain, but my priority would be to work on stopping the behavior and work out why she was doing it.

The assumption that it makes us bad owners is ridiculous, I think its the owners who stop their dogs from doing all the things dogs do naturally that need to take a look at themselves. I am working very hard to stop my dog from stressing at everyday things, which is what causes her to bark, I don't mind the barking so much at all its a normal dog behaviour and can mean many things including happiness, I just don't like seeing her unhappy.


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## tailtickle (Mar 19, 2012)

PS. To those who posted and clearly felt awkward or too engaged to say anything, or even felt that they were being regarded sourly.


From my aspect, I appreciate a quick apology. And I will listen if someone spoke to me too. I do like to see that the Owner is aware and is trying, or wants to try to amend the situation. 


It is the people who disregard the situation, and do not even glance in my direction. Or who act as if it is perfectly normal for me to feel uncomfortable, and need to focus that my dogs do not take objection.


tailtickle x


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

In case some of you haven't realised - a dog barking is one way for it to communicate. My dogs only bark when someone is threatening to them or is knocking on my door - all of these tell me something is wrong. 

A dog barking at us whilst walking past is not a problem either nor is it something I would expect an apology for or give one. I have never apologised for my dog barking at someone as they have always had good reason to bark at them. And I never expect an apology for one barking at me. Their dog kicking off is not offensive to me nor is it my problem or going to ruin mine or my dogs day. 

Some people really do want all dogs to be perfect


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

tailtickle said:


> Why is every "Rescue" dog deemed to be "abused"??? Sometimes, I feel it again gives an opportunity to excuse a behaviour. Do you think that I have not owned a Rescue dog or a dog from a home with issues? Now tell me, do you think that one of my dogs would make excuses to behave in a way that would not otherwise be natural because he/she thought, "Oh, this new addition to our family is a rescue dog or a dog with issues". No, they simply respond to a dog like a dog. I do think that sometimes, people make a situation far worse.
> 
> I don't use "magic" - just good sense, and no frills, that helps a dog feel confidence from me.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with your post when you say not everyone knows your dog is rescue/has issues and to be quite honest when i was scared of dogs i wouldnt have given 2 hoots what was wrong with the dog i would have been scared and thats it, also just because its a rescue with issues doesnt mean to say its ok for me and my dogs to be scared, it isnt and even tough the owner is doing its best to control it a simple, polite sorry never goes amiss. I think this thread is good, its a first as far as i can remember and hopefully make people think that its not always about their situation its a two way thing.


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## Labrador Laura (Sep 12, 2010)

If a dog had just barked at one of mine I wouldn't want a sorry from the owner, if it was through aggression I would rather they just carried on rather than stop to say sorry.

Also you don't know what has just gone on between the dogs, Eye contact between dogs can trigger a dog to bark at another. I know Mylo can give a stare which will trigger a dog to bark/tell him off. 

Like we can give a b*tchy look


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I say sorry automatically, then often kick myself and wish I hadn't. Kilo always barks at a lab we see here - the lab usually comes running up offlead when we are by a road and jumps all over him, will not take no for an answer and has time and again undone an awful lot of the work we have done post rottie attack. When we see lab on his lead (v rare) Kilo unfortunately barks if he's coming towards us head on if I don't 'catch' him in time or head the other way. I HATE saying sorry as the lab's owner never apologises for his dog's behaviour even having had the reason for Kilo's explained. 

To an onlooker Kilo is just going bonkers at an innocent dog walking towards us, but often these things have a 'history' behind them. Do I want Kilo to bark? Absolutely not although I understand why he is. Should I say sorry - in my book, yes as I see it as courtesy, but I do then feel angry that courtesy cannot be extended to us also when the lab is offlead. All I get is a withering, indignant look and "my dog's friendly" in both situations.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> I'd much rather get my dog to stop barking and settle down than allow her to continue on with it. Surely if you were frightened of dogs you'd prefer the dog to be calmed down than someone allow it to continue in order to say a meaningless apology?


Why would an apology be meaningless - if your dog is so out of control that you cant walk past another dog quietly but you feel that this is because your dog has special needs then apologise. And maybe if you did not rush by and actually spent a few minutes training the dog then the behaviour would go away.

I am totally astounded by the number of people on here who seem to think it perfectly ok to have a bad mannered dog that is going to upset other people and give dogs a bad name because it was a rescue or it had a fright as a puppy or whatever. Train them, it cannot possibly be that difficult to train or control a dog can it.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I can understand if you can speak dog and the dog did actually offend you. But as you are human - how could you tell the bark wasn't "Oh hello, I see you - come say hello"..


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Labrador Laura said:


> If a dog had just barked at one of mine I wouldn't want a sorry from the owner, if it was through aggression I would rather they just carried on rather than stop to say sorry.
> 
> Also you don't know what has just gone on between the dogs, Eye contact between dogs can trigger a dog to bark at another. I know Mylo can give a stare which will trigger a dog to bark/tell him off.
> 
> Like we can give a b*tchy look


This too; it's so common for dogs to be staring and posturing away and the end of their leads as their owners chat away or walk on oblivious. Or Kilo will sometimes bark at dogs choking themselves and pulling to get to him. Often the dogs not making a noise aren't totally 'innocent'.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

SLB said:


> I can understand if you can speak dog and the dog did actually offend you. But as you are human - how could you tell the bark wasn't "Oh hello, I see you - come say hello"..


It could be a friendly hello bark but what ime saying if the person or dog interpreted that as something different a sorry doesnt hurt.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Why would an apology be meaningless - if your dog is so out of control that you cant walk past another dog quietly but you feel that this is because your dog has special needs then apologise. And maybe if you did not rush by and actually spent a few minutes training the dog then the behaviour would go away.
> 
> *I am totally astounded by the number of people on here who seem to think it perfectly ok to have a bad mannered dog that is going to upset other people and give dogs a bad name because it was a rescue or it had a fright as a puppy or whatever.* Train them, it cannot possibly be that difficult to train or control a dog can it.


And I am astounded that you think those of us who feel the OP was a bit harsh in their initial comments aren't working with their dogs and trying to overcome theirs fears. I dont think anyone has said that bad manners are ok we just question that a dog who is barking, most likely through totally, to them, justified emotions of fear or some other ingrained behaviour which we are trying to overcome, is in fact behaving in a perfectly normal dog way, and is not bad mannered, manners are a human perception we cant impose them on dogs.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Why would an apology be meaningless - if your dog is so out of control that you cant walk past another dog quietly but you feel that this is because your dog has special needs then apologise. And maybe if you did not rush by and actually spent a few minutes training the dog then the behaviour would go away.
> 
> I am totally astounded by the number of people on here who seem to think it perfectly ok to have a bad mannered dog *that is going to upset other people* and give dogs a bad name because it was a rescue or it had a fright as a puppy or whatever. Train them, it cannot possibly be that difficult to train or control a dog can it.


I think this is one of the key things. If I could clearly see that my dogs barking had upset somebody then I would apologise. If my dog barking didnt affect the other person or their dog then I probably wouldnt say sorry. I guess thats another reason I dont expect one from other people. If a dog approaches us barking or whatever my lot will look at it as if to say "what's your problem?" and continue to move on without engaging any further, I myself tend to ignore it too so it clearly doesnt upset us.

However, the Podenco type dog I described earlier does upset us as it follows us barking which unnerves my dogs as we are trying to walk away and it irritates me - obvious by my dogs body language and my own. I often feel like turning round and running towards it with my arms waving and my vocal chords screeching to give it the shock of it's life but of course that would be totally irresponsible and stupid. It probably would get the message across to the owner though that her dog annoys me. A simple sorry or an attempt to recall the dog though would placate me.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Blitz said:


> *Why would an apology be meaningless *- if your dog is so out of control that you cant walk past another dog quietly but you feel that this is because your dog has special needs then apologise. And maybe if you did not rush by and actually spent a few minutes training the dog then the behaviour would go away.
> 
> I am totally astounded by the number of people on here who seem to think it perfectly ok to have a bad mannered dog that is going to upset other people and give dogs a bad name because it was a rescue or it had a fright as a puppy or whatever. Train them, it cannot possibly be that difficult to train or control a dog can it.


Because as you say yourself- actions speak louder than words

I'd rather someone dealt with their dog than apologised to me... dogs are dogs sometimes they bark- it's not for me to judge other people- how am I to know if their dog is ;repeat offender' or if it just took one look at mine and thought he deserved to be barked at.

I've had heaps of onlead dogs bark at mine- Likewise mine has had the odd bark (normally in reply to another barking at him)- I deal with it immediately. I generally do apologise- because that's how I was raised- but like someone else says often I think WHYYYYY did I apologise-


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Leanne77 said:


> It will partially approach people and start barking (it never fully goes up to people or dogs, it doesnt have the balls). The dog will even follow people and continue to bark, almost like it's seeing them off.
> 
> But a dog just barking in a non threatening manner or if it is under control (i.e on a lead) I dont have an issue with at all. It's all about context and TBF, the original post just mentioned dogs barking, it didnt mention other behaviour.


Alot of it is subjective then coz whats described here sounds alot like Heidi! and I know for a fact she is terrified when she does it and isnt aggressive at all (if approached by another dog she will run away screaming)...however she does still jump a little ways towards them and then do the same when they are going, almost like she has to do something with all the fear and nervous energy.
Im sure she might have people worried if she was a GSD and not a Chihuahua!


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> It could be a friendly hello bark but what ime saying if the person or dog interpreted that as something different a sorry doesnt hurt.


But you keep throwing "sorry" around and something terrible happens - sorry doesn't cut it.

I apologised to the two lads who Lou barked at because they were wearing a cap - thats scary for them to have a dog randomly appear and bark at you. But if he was with me, onlead or at heel and barked at them I'd have told him to shut up and sent him ahead of me.

TBH with the rise in dog thefts - I would rather my dog barked at someone approaching him (offlead) than kept quiet. I've had so many people walk over to Louie and try and stroke him - this is adults - yet he's barked. I've never apologised for that. You don't walk up to strange dogs and expect them to be happy to have you touch them.

There is always a background and a story to why things happen and what I apologise for to one person - I will not apologise to another for the same thing. Like the man who lets his dog run up to mine on a footpath.. I've told him before not to because we're next to a road and I said if I have the unfriendly ones with me I will not be held accountable. So if I take Benjie out and his dog rushes up to him on the footpath - I am not apologising for the rude awakening that he gets because he cannot keep his dog leashed for the extra 20ft to the entrance of the park.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> Alot of it is subjective then coz whats described here sounds alot like Heidi! and I know for a fact she is terrified when she does it and isnt aggressive at all (if approached by another dog she will run away screaming)...however she does still jump a little ways towards them and then do the same when they are going, almost like she has to do something with all the fear and nervous energy.
> Im sure she might have people worried if she was a GSD and not a Chihuahua!


Chewy the chi a few doors down- barks a tirade of barks at my dog every morning- EVERY morning.

Mine would react, if I hadn't put in a lot of time and effort into getting him not to

The guy never apologises- but we share a 'hello' and someone will quip either me, of the wee man's got spirit or him saying he's got wee man syndrome.

I'd rather he still did something with his dog- I didn't correct my dog- I just worked with him until he displayed behaviour I wanted and that chilled him out too. And also cause mine has bull in him, gotta create a good example now 

I like my neighbour, an apology would probably be nice for me to hear- but i'd prefer he did something else with the dog than just stand there watching it go mental at mine.

p.s he is cute as hell though- wee monster


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Not read every post, but here goes. Clover barks, usually out of fear. 

I am pretty good at preempting a situation now, and will do the watch me game if the threat is a safe distance away. 

If someone comes out of the blue, and clover barks I will call her back and put her on the lead, and apologize 

but it works 2 ways - I very rarely get an apology if a dog runs up to Clover (on lead) barking like mad


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Most people with reactive dogs probably aren't accepting of it and I don't buy that they can all be fixed by acting confidently. As is evident in this thread in all likelihood they've been told umpteen times what an awful dog they have and what a bad owner they are. Why strike up a conversation to be told again ? Provided they are acting responsibly if I wanted an apology I'd start with a nod of the head or a raise of the hand first. I can't see the point of ostracising them so I don't. What I'm more interested in is a friendly "hello" from a fellow dog owner. I can fully understand that in such a situation they might be concentrating 100% on the dog so ignore me. Dief sometimes goes into a ( silent ) fixation on another dog and in that situation he has my full attention to break it.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Yep I would apologise if he had barked at someone, they may be scared of dogs.

When Alfie was younger he had bad manners on the lead and would pull to the side to get near people and if he looked like that I would apologise.

When we stand aside and let people past they always say thank you so I would be remiss if I didn't say sorry should he bark at someone.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I am totally astounded by the number of people on here who seem to think it perfectly ok to have a bad mannered dog that is going to upset other people and give dogs a bad name because it was a rescue or it had a fright as a puppy or whatever. Train them, it cannot possibly be that difficult to train or control a dog can it.


Actually it can be extremely difficult and time consuming to overcome some issues.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

SLB said:


> But you keep throwing "sorry" around and something terrible happens - sorry doesn't cut it.
> 
> I apologised to the two lads who Lou barked at because they were wearing a cap - thats scary for them to have a dog randomly appear and bark at you. But if he was with me, onlead or at heel and barked at them I'd have told him to shut up and sent him ahead of me.
> 
> ...


I havnt said in every situation, if someone comes up and strokes your dog without asking and the dog barks then they should be saying sorry to you for upsetting your dog, owners that allow their dogs to run up off lead they should also be apologising, but when a person either alone or with a dog minding their own and you dog barks them or their dog looks upset by it whether you feel its justified or not i think a sorry is in order.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> I havnt said in every situation, if someone comes up and strokes your dog without asking and the dog barks then they should be saying sorry to you for upsetting your dog, owners that allow their dogs to run up off lead they should also be apologising, but when a person either alone or with a dog minding their own and you dog barks them or their dog looks upset by it whether you feel its justified or not i think a sorry is in order.


If my dog worries another then I will say sorry - I have said that in numerous threads before.

I do have a dog that retaliates with dogs barking at him when on lead - I take this as a training exercise - I don't want the person to do anything but carry on. If a dog kicks off at my others and the owner is trying to apologise I simply say "Don't worry I have one the same at home" Because the last thing an owner with a reactive dog needs is someone to get up in their face and tell them what they should and shouldn't be doing.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> I always understand when dogs bark at us that they could have issues, something has unfortunately made them that way, then you can see some that its plain hasnt had an ounce of training discipline, dont ask me how but just know with how the owners react/deal with them. But i really dont think there is anything wrong with saying sorry, its polite,its only right because its not all about your dog in situations like this its about the other dog and/or person.
> 
> I also think as well its a matter of how your dog has effected the other dog or person, mine just ignore them carry on as if nothing is going on, molly might on some occasions, which tells me the other dog is doing it through aggression walk round the back of me to the other side and pull on ahead quickly but if mine were barking and clearly freaking another dog or person out i would have to say sorry and i would expect them to say sorry to me if me or my dogs were clearly scared or upset by their dog.


If I had a tiny little thing that was no bother I'd be more inclined to apologised - As it takes all the muscles in my arm to control Kes if she is kicking off I'd rather conserve my energy doing so rather than being distracted by niceties


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I always try to apologise, but I have to say, when Bob was at his most reactive & I had to spend some time teaching him that other dogs passing is a good thing, by using distraction methods & rewarding, I may have missed a few apologies.

So, if anyone has felt slighted that I didn't apologise & is reading this, I'm sorry 

*Deep breath* now to get Rogue through her reactivity issues....


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Out of politeness, yes an apology should be made - however sometimes, understandably the owner is pre occupied by controlling their dog.


This ^

I think a simple apology from one owner to another is not particularly strenuous. Fair enough the barking dog may be scared or over excitable but the dog or person on the receiving end isn't to know that. Their dog could also be afraid so having another barking in it's face is going to cause problems for them too.


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## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

Having recently gone through this (and starting to come out the other side!) with Scrabble, I would usually apologize - but sometimes, I just wanted to get away from the situation. I will not apologize if someone else's dog does something to set Scrabble off, but I'm not especially bothered by it either ... few of us have the perfect dog and a little understanding from both sides is usually welcomed.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

My Yorkie is lead reactive. I have to say that no, I don't generally apologize as I am trying to concentrate on getting her to be quiet. 

It is quite disheartening to read posts that suggest that owners have failed reactive dogs by not training them. If only it is was that simple. My dog is lead reactive due to the numerous much larger dogs that have ran up to her and bowled her over, terrifying her in the process. If we see another dog that is also on the lead, she has no idea whether or not the dog is going to run over like history repeating itself. In all honestly, I do not blame her for barking to ward them away. I don't like or encourage the behaviour of course but I can almost certainly understand why she does what she does.

Rather than look down your nose at these "out of control" dogs, try to be a bit more understanding. I get that this is difficult if you have perfect dogs that never vocalize nor put a paw out of place, but just try.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> Actually it can be extremely difficult and time consuming to overcome some issues.


I am sure it can be - but you can control the dog with a headcollar or such like and a short lead so that the dog cant kick off.
How come there are so many 'reactive' dogs. If I had a dog that behaved like that though I would call it bad mannered. Dogs did not used to behave like that. I can honestly say that when I used to walk my dogs 4 times a day in areas where I would be meeting other dogs I never met and aggressive or bad mannered dog. They all seemed much better brought up than apparently they are nowadays. What has gone wrong.



labradrk said:


> My Yorkie is lead reactive. I have to say that no, I don't generally apologize as I am trying to concentrate on getting her to be quiet.
> 
> It is quite disheartening to read posts that suggest that owners have failed reactive dogs by not training them. If only it is was that simple. My dog is lead reactive due to the numerous much larger dogs that have ran up to her and bowled her over, terrifying her in the process. If we see another dog that is also on the lead, she has no idea whether or not the dog is going to run over like history repeating itself. In all honestly, I do not blame her for barking to ward them away. I don't like or encourage the behaviour of course but I can almost certainly understand why she does what she does.
> 
> Rather than look down your nose at these "out of control" dogs, try to be a bit more understanding. I get that this is difficult if you have perfect dogs that never vocalize nor put a paw out of place, but just try.


Why should people be understanding though. If you are walking your dog and another dog is hurling around making a horrible noise and showing atrocious manners unless the owner apologises and explains the reasons of course people are going to think they are out of control and badly trained.
And for dogs to behave like that where the non dog owning public are likely to be is just adding fuel to the fire for anti dog feelings.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I am sure it can be - but you can control the dog with a headcollar or such like and a short lead so that the dog cant kick off.
> How come there are so many 'reactive' dogs. If I had a dog that behaved like that though I would call it bad mannered. Dogs did not used to behave like that. I can honestly say that when I used to walk my dogs 4 times a day in areas where I would be meeting other dogs I never met and aggressive or bad mannered dog. They all seemed much better brought up than apparently they are nowadays. *What has gone wrong*.
> 
> Why should people be understanding though. If you are walking your dog and another dog is hurling around making a horrible noise and showing atrocious manners unless the owner apologises and explains the reasons of course people are going to think they are out of control and badly trained.
> And for dogs to behave like that where the non dog owning public are likely to be is just adding fuel to the fire for anti dog feelings.


I honestly don't know- but looking at any shelter or charity site and there are heaps of dogs needing homes, equally on websites there are heaps for sale.

Were there always this many dogs around???

Really - genuine question- (maybe one for another thread- sorry OP)

I know it's more complex than this but there just seem to be neverending dogs needing homes. Sad.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> If I had a tiny little thing that was no bother I'd be more inclined to apologised - As it takes all the muscles in my arm to control Kes if she is kicking off I'd rather conserve my energy doing so rather than being distracted by niceties


What opening your mouth to say sorry? i cant see while trying to control the strongest of dogs i dont see how its hard to say 1 word.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

When Henri has an off day he can be like this.

I always apologise because I think it is out of order. He isn't ruining lives or anything but it isn't something I think is acceptable. I also apologise because I don't want people to think that I think it is something he should "get away with" because he is a small dog.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> What opening your mouth to say sorry? i cant see while trying to control the strongest of dogs i dont see how its hard to say 1 word.


Because you are often trying to stand between your dog and the other dog to break focus as well as telling your dog to 'watch me', holding the lead in one hand and a treat in the other. I have eye contact with my dog during this time and if I break that to turn round and apologise, then she'll start barking again. Can't please everyone!


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

When Florence was going through her 'confrontational' phase, she would posture and eyeball dogs coming towards her when on lead - with the occasional huffing and gruffing. Yes it was undesirable behaviour but I didn't feel the need to apologise as any oncoming owner could see that I was doing my utmost to prevent it. 

All in the space of 30 seconds, I would be distracting her with treats and words, trying to not pull back on the lead and trying to remain calm myself. Saying 'sorry' even just in passing would have increased the amount of time we were in the vicinity of the other dog, and more often than not, engaging another owner in any sort of conversation can lead to small talk which is something I tend to avoid if Florence is agitated by another dog. 

I really try as hard as I can to remain relaxed when walking Florence. She picks up on my tension, even when she's off lead, and it is a direct impact on her behaviour. So if I'm walking in a dog friendly/orientated area like a country park I don't allow myself to get worked up about what other owners might think about my dogs. Yes if Florence huffs at their dog they may think she is rude, untrained and ill mannered - but surely that's their problem, not mine?! 

eta I do always apologise if she lunges. 

oh and also, yes, a headcollar and short lead allows more control over a dog but with some dogs, ime, this can work them up even more. Training confrontational behaviour is a constant 'give and take' approach - you can't literally restrict the dog from exhibiting the behaviour.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

tiatortilla said:


> Because you are often trying to stand between your dog and the other dog to break focus as well as telling your dog to 'watch me', holding the lead in one hand and a treat in the other. I have eye contact with my dog during this time and if I break that to turn round and apologise, then she'll start barking again. Can't please everyone!


 Ime just not getting it am I?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I am sure it can be - but you can control the dog with a headcollar or such like and a short lead so that the dog cant kick off.
> How come there are so many 'reactive' dogs. If I had a dog that behaved like that though I would call it bad mannered. Dogs did not used to behave like that. I can honestly say that when I used to walk my dogs 4 times a day in areas where I would be meeting other dogs I never met and aggressive or bad mannered dog. They all seemed much better brought up than apparently they are nowadays. What has gone wrong.
> 
> Why should people be understanding though. If you are walking your dog and another dog is hurling around making a horrible noise and showing atrocious manners unless the owner apologises and explains the reasons of course people are going to think they are out of control and badly trained.
> And for dogs to behave like that where the non dog owning public are likely to be is just adding fuel to the fire for anti dog feelings.


Blitz I was thinking the same the other day and what I came up with is that there are too many new theories and books and behaviourists that everything is all muddled with the do's and don'ts of training instead of the old praise good and tell off bad. Theres also clickers or no clickers etc.

This was my thoughts anyway.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Dogs bark. Unless the dog in question is actually thundering towards you at the time and/or leaping up at you, I fail to see why the owner should apologise. It's not as though the dog is deliberately being rude 

I have an extremely reactive dog. The sight of anything that spooks him or seems 'odd' will have him growling, grumbling, barking and sometimes a lunge. If I apologised to every person nearby when he did these things I would not be able to work on training him - and the latter is more important.

That being said, I ALWAYS ALWAYS apologise if my dog *tries* to lunge or leap at someone, as I recognise that can be scary for them.

But as a dog owner yourself, why on earth would it be a big deal if a dog barked 'at' you?


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> Ime just not getting it am I?


Idk if that reply is sarcastic or not? Sorry if it isn't, you can just never tell on here.
Anyway, I was only trying to help by offering an explanation as to why it's difficult to apologise every time.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I wouldnt expect anyone to waste their time saying sorry to all and sundry cos they have a dog that barks at others.

I cant imagine how many times someone might have to say it if they lived in a high dog density area.

Id much rather people attempt to deal with the issue, than worry about what others may think.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I am sure it can be - but you can control the dog with a headcollar or such like and a short lead so that the dog cant kick off.
> How come there are so many 'reactive' dogs. If I had a dog that behaved like that though I would call it bad mannered. Dogs did not used to behave like that. I can honestly say that when I used to walk my dogs 4 times a day in areas where I would be meeting other dogs I never met and aggressive or bad mannered dog. They all seemed much better brought up than apparently they are nowadays. What has gone wrong.


A short leash and headcollar doesn't stop a dog kicking off though. They can still make a hell of a lot of noise on a short leash, still attempt to lunge, still snarl and look threatening.

I don't know what's gone wrong. I don't remember encountering many aggressive dogs when I had Shadow and Wolf. I don't think the lack of socialisation helps though.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

This thread reminds me of an encounter I had the other day.

Dex and I were enjoying a nice walk. As we mooched along, a man crossed the road towards us. Dex is reactive and because the man *seemed* to be walking straight at us, and looking at us, Dex was spooked and yep - *he barked and was visibly nervous.*

My first priority was to calm my dog. But because the man looked to be in his 60s, I did want to apologise. But Dex was really spooked so I was busy doing a 'watch me'.

Anyway, this LOVELY man that had been barked at, walked over to us and gently touched me on the shoulder, then smiled wryly at me and said with a smile: 'Sorry - I didn't mean to offend him.'

What a lovely man!

I was then able to very quickly apologise before returning to my reactive dog.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

tiatortilla said:


> Idk if that reply is sarcastic or not? Sorry if it isn't, you can just never tell on here.
> Anyway, I was only trying to help by offering an explanation as to why it's difficult to apologise every time.


No it wasnt at all.....ye reading it back now it could have been.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

We had a human aggressive dog that in the end no amount of sorry's could changed how people saw him, it did get where i used avoid everyone like the plague until he got older and no way could i even hold him.


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## Wyrekin (Sep 10, 2012)

I apologise automatically if one of mine kicks off. I think Milliepoochie had it when she said about being in a village environment. I grew up walking dogs where everyone knew everyone else and when I got my first real problem dog 'sorry' came out as standard even as I was backing away trying to get his focus back. If he had a go from a distance I would often throw in a 'we're working on it' or 'he's a bit scared' which most people appreciate.

I do think it's sad to see such negativity towards owners trying to work with reactive dogs. I own two, one who reacts to certain people and one who reacts to dogs. The one who reacts to dogs does so because at the age of about a year old he ended up in rescue kennels for 6 months where he was barked at day in day out. This has made him very nervous of other dogs, especially when on lead.

I'm working on it with him and today he walked beautifully round a busy show ground with only the odd squeak here and there (usually when someone else's dog was barking). I cannot, overnight, undo the stress and fear that those 6 months in kennels have put in him. It could take me years to get him right, if ever. He wears a headcollar and walks on a short lead but that's not going to stop him barking and physically stopping him barking is not going to stop him showing that behaviour, just prevent it. Preventing it doesn't solve the problem in the long run and unfortunately part of the process of solving the problem is that he will have days where he barks.

As for people who should apologise, what about the 'oh he's perfectly friendly' brigade who allow their dogs to approach mine in a nervous state and undo all the good work I've been doing with him. I never get an apology from them and find myself apologising for my dogs behaviour even though it was their lack of control that caused it. I doubt I will ever get my boy 100% because of people like this who on a weekly basis set our training back without a care in the world.


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I have an extremely reactive dog. The sight of anything that spooks him or seems 'odd' will have him growling, grumbling, barking and sometimes a lunge. If I apologised to every person nearby when he did these things I would not be able to work on training him - and the latter is more important.


`Training` did you say Training? You mean you actually are trying to train your reactive dog? What an idea!!! I mean no-one never ever tries to train a reactive dog do they, no they just make excuses and let the dog do whatever. Really OBAYL I can`t imagine what your thinking of trying to help your dog not to react to everything, its just not the done thing


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

To the one or two folk who have stated that those of us with reactive rescue dogs are using that as an 'excuse':


Are you kidding?

I have worked solidly with Dex for the past two years. He was so reactive when I rehomed him that we literally could not walk down the road without a lunge a minute.

After a LOT of hard work, he now does not lunge - instead he will growl or bark. I am DELIGHTED that he does these things as opposed to the lunges!!!

Of course I am working on now reducing the growls and barks but I am not going to apologise every time my extremely nervous dog feels uneasy! If a few of you deem that 'bad manners' then so be it.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> To the one or two folk who have stated that those of us with reactive rescue dogs are using that as an 'excuse':
> 
> Are you kidding?


Lol, my dog's reactive and isn't even a rescue so God knows what they think of me 

I can pinpoint the exact moment when she started doing it and guess what, it wasn't my fault! Idk, some replies here make it sound like we choose to have dogs that bark.. it's really not that simple.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

tiatortilla said:


> Lol, my dog's reactive and isn't even a rescue so God knows what they think of me
> 
> I can pinpoint the exact moment when she started doing it and guess what, it wasn't my fault! Idk, some replies here make it sound like we choose to have dogs that bark.. it's really not that simple.


Nobody would choose to have a reactive dog - you are spot on. Having a reactive dog, especially when they are also big, is EXHAUSTING.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Nobody would choose to have a reactive dog - you are spot on. Having a reactive dog, especially when they are also big, is EXHAUSTING.


Clover isn't big, but is reactive. Sometimes I wish she was more like Daisy who loves everyone and everything.

Clover's reactive-ness has been caused by a big dog going for her as a pup - now she barks to warn everyone off


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Nobody would choose to have a reactive dog - you are spot on. Having a reactive dog, especially when they are also big, is EXHAUSTING.


It is true, Tia's only little but she's strong.. plus it's mentally exhausting.
As I said, I can pinpoint when she started it and it was a result of someone else's lack of control over their dog yet I get dirty looks and tutted at daily because of this.. certainly not my idea of fun and ofc I'm working to change it!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cloversmum said:


> Clover isn't big, but is reactive. Sometimes I wish she was more like Daisy who loves everyone and everything.
> 
> Clover's reactive-ness has been caused by a big dog going for her as a pup - now she barks to warn everyone off


She's making a lot of progress now though  Hardly any barks at all last time we walked and Kes is huge compared to little Cover


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Amber will sometimes just run around and bark, she may inadvertently pass a person barking but unless she actually stopped and barked intently staring at them, I wouldn't say or do anything just make her carry on in my direction. she did this with a border terrier last week, I just made her stop and held her collar for a second, and let the dog and owner carry on. I'm sure the owner would rather see swift control being taken of the dog as good as an apology although I know saying sorry is polite (before anyone shoots me)


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> She's making a lot of progress now though  Hardly any barks at all last time we walked and Kes is huge compared to little Cover


Yes she is  But she knows Kes now. She doesn't bark at dogs she feels safe with


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

It's happened to me once, the owner said nothing, avoided all eye contact and looked really embarrassed about it whilst holding their dog tightly on the lead, I didn't expect an apology or feel annoyed they didn't say anything I kind of felt sorry for them that there dog was reactive and they were struggling.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't think anyone is being criticised for having a reactive dog, it's just that a 1 second "sorry" isn't going to really take much effort.

I personally wouldn't care much if a dog on lead barked at me nor would I be bothered about 1 or 2 little barks but if it was just constant barking aimed at Lucky and she was directly affected by it then I would think the other walker was a bit inconsiderate. I mean I could have a very frightened, elderly or blind dog.

A sorry won't make much difference to the dog on the receiving end but it's the thought that counts


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

I have apologised on the occasions Millie has barked with excitement to try and go play with some dogs, she doesnt do it with all though, she very often gives me the "watch me" and ignores the dog, but with some she meets she just cant contain herself ..... work in progress...

I do see it as bad manners when she does it and I try to distract her and praise her like hell when she doesn't do it, she's a young "teenage" girl and I'm sure this will calm down in time..... but I will always continue to say sorry to the ones she goes off at..... a Schnauzer excitement "scream" is not nice


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> I don't think anyone is being criticised for having a reactive dog, it's just that a 1 second "sorry" isn't going to really take much effort.
> 
> I personally wouldn't care much if a dog on lead barked at me nor would I be bothered about 1 or 2 little barks but if it was just constant barking aimed at Lucky and she was directly affected by it then I would think the other walker was a bit inconsiderate. I mean I could have a very frightened, elderly or blind dog.
> 
> A sorry won't make much difference to the dog on the receiving end but it's the thought that counts


When one is trying desperately to calm a 35kg dog by doing a 'watch me', with a treat in one hand and the lead in the other, it's *not* always easy to take time out to chuck a 'sorry' - not if said dog is still busy kicking off!


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Sorry, but what is all this about some dogs having 'bad manners' 

When my dog is scared and kicks off, that is not 'bad manners'. Nor is it bad manners on MY part when I then immediately focus on calming him down!

Frankly, my dog's feelings in that minute matter more to me than some random stranger who may have 'suffered' a few dog barks!

And to reiterate: I ALWAYS apologise if my dog tries to lunge etc because I recognise that this may be genuinely disconcerting.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> When one is trying desperately to calm a 35kg dog by doing a 'watch me', with a treat in one hand and the lead in the other, it's *not* always easy to take time out to chuck a 'sorry' - not if said dog is still busy kicking off!


^That, but replace 35kg with 17ish!

The point is, the apology can distract from being able to stop the dog barking.
So which is better? Being barked at, but getting an apology or not getting an apology but we shut our dogs up?


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> When one is trying desperately to calm a 35kg dog by doing a 'watch me', with a treat in one hand and the lead in the other, it's *not* always easy to take time out to chuck a 'sorry' - not if said dog is still busy kicking off!


When one is trying to walk their frightened dog who has been attacked, lunged at and set back hundreds of times and doesn't get a simple 1 second sorry then it becomes a bit of a sore subject after a while rrr:

It's understandable that it's sometimes difficult to acknowledge anything else around you at times like that but surely it's not too nice for the other walker or dog!


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> When one is trying to walk their frightened dog who has been attacked, lunged at and set back hundreds of times and doesn't get a simple 1 second sorry then it becomes a bit of a sore subject after a while rrr:


Aside from being attacked (it was a two-way thing and idk which dog started it) this is why Tia is reactive though! I think that's maybe why I'd like a little sympathy, we're in the same boat, my dog just deals with it differently to yours.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> When one is trying to walk their frightened dog who has been attacked, lunged at and set back hundreds of times and doesn't get a simple 1 second sorry then it becomes a bit of a sore subject after a while rrr:
> 
> It's understandable that it's sometimes difficult to acknowledge anything else around you at times like that but surely it's not too nice for the other walker or dog!


To reiterate, if my dog tries to lunge, I always apologise.

But I never expect other dog owners to apologise to me if their dogs bark and trust me, I have a very nervous dog. But that isn't the fault of the other dog owners so I don't expect them to say sorry.

In fact, come to think of it, most of`the dogs I encounter bark at us if they are of on lead - usually I grin at the other owner, they grin back, we exchange a weary eye roll and continue our respective walks!


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Sorry, but what is all this about some dogs having 'bad manners'
> 
> When my dog is scared and kicks off, that is not 'bad manners'. Nor is it bad manners on MY part when I then immediately focus on calming him down!
> 
> ...


I can understand this, I really can ..... I'm just glad mine is only a 7.5 kg and I can chuck in a "sorry" whilst dealing with her....only takes a split second to shout sorry


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

MyMillie said:


> I can understand this, I really can ..... I'm just glad mine is only a 7.5 kg and I can chuck in a "sorry" whilst dealing with her....only takes a split second to shout sorry


If I wasn't so intent on talking to my dog and trying to calm him and doing a 'watch me' I would have that split second


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

tiatortilla said:


> Aside from being attacked (it was a two-way thing and idk which dog started it) this is why Tia is reactive though! I think that's maybe why I'd like a little sympathy, we're in the same boat, my dog just deals with it differently to yours.


I can appreciate that but I would feel a little inconsiderate if I didn't apologise if Lucky was continuously barking at someone or their dog.

As I said one or two little barks is nothing and I think there's no need for an apology but if it's continuous barking directly aimed at another then an apology wouldn't hurt.

When Lucky gets barked at now she usually shrugs it off but before she would try and bolt which could have been potentially dangerous even when on lead.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I agree, sometimes people need to see things from the owner of the dog barking point of view.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Goldstar, I appreciate that because Tia used to be exactly the same. But I just think you're getting too hung up on the apology? You said yourself that your dog doesn't like it, so wouldn't you rather the other owner tried to get their dog to stop rather than wasting time apologising?
I actually do say sorry most of the time but I strongly agree with those who can't always manage because I don't always either if she's too focussed because it honestly is difficult to do both.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> To reiterate, if my dog tries to lunge, I always apologise.
> 
> But I never expect other dog owners to apologise to me if their dogs bark and trust me, I have a very nervous dog. But that isn't the fault of the other dog owners so I don't expect them to say sorry.
> 
> In fact, come to think of it, most of`the dogs I encounter bark at us if they are of on lead - usually I grin at the other owner, they grin back, we exchange a weary eye roll and continue our respective walks!


As I've already said I don't think it's necessary for an apology in every situation, if it's one or two little barks then that's nothing. If it's lots of barking aimed at someone else or their dog then a little sorry wouldn't hurt.

Maybe it's safer to agree to disagree. I believe that an apology goes a long way if a dog is barking relentlessly at another. My view on that will not change.


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> I can appreciate that but I would feel a little inconsiderate if I didn't apologise if Lucky was continuously barking at someone or their dog.
> 
> *As I said one or two little barks is nothing and I think there's no need for an apology but if it's continuous barking directly aimed at another then an apology wouldn't hurt.*
> 
> When Lucky gets barked at now she usually shrugs it off but before she would try and bolt which could have been potentially dangerous even when on lead.


I agree, if Millie just gave a couple of little barks I wouldnt find the need to apologise!, we all know dogs are dogs! and we appreciate what all this entails.... but since she "screams" to some, as in wanting to play I dont like it cos it may be very upsetting to some dogs, I dont know their dog, and it could have issues that Millie could make worse, and I dont like that thought.... hence my apology to the other dog owner


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

tiatortilla said:


> Goldstar, I appreciate that because Tia used to be exactly the same. But I just think you're getting too hung up on the apology? You said yourself that your dog doesn't like it, so wouldn't you rather the other owner tried to get their dog to stop rather than wasting time apologising?
> I actually do say sorry most of the time but I strongly agree with those who can't always manage because I don't always either if she's too focussed because it honestly is difficult to do both.


No I'm not overly hung up on the apology  and yes I would rather the other owner focus on getting control of their dog but how can one little word really hurt.
When a lurcher type dog was jumping at me the other day trying to get a hold of Lucky I would have been a hell of a lot more compassionate to the owner if they gave me one simple "sorry".

I don't want to have an argument over this I really don't so I'll say no more on the subject


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Blitz I was thinking the sane the othercday and what I came up with is that there are too many new theories and books and behaviourists that everything is all muddles with the dos and don'ts of training instead of the old praise good and tell off bad. Theres also clickers or no clickers etc.
> 
> This was my thoughts anyway.


I think you have summed it up very well.

the other point is that though there have always been rescues around most dogs with antisocial behaviour were pts and not passed on for someone else to have an antisocial dog.



tiatortilla said:


> ^That, but replace 35kg with 17ish!
> 
> The point is, the apology can distract from being able to stop the dog barking.
> So which is better? Being barked at, but getting an apology or not getting an apology but we shut our dogs up?


I think the apology is better. One quick sorry can defuse the situation very well. Manners in man cost nothing and manners in dogs should be trained.


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I think you have summed it up very well.
> 
> the other point is that though there have always been rescues around most dogs with antisocial behaviour were pts and not passed on for someone else to have an antisocial dog.
> 
> *I think the apology is better. One quick sorry can defuse the situation very well. Manners in man cost nothing and manners in dogs should be trained.*


Very Well Said!!


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

Alright, I'm getting a bit bored of this now so this is my last post on this thread but... apologising doesn't defuse the 'situation'? The only situation is that my dog is barking, apologising does nothing for that! Also it's got sod all to do with manners, she's scared not rude and I do usually apologise so my manners have got nothing to do with it either, I'm just sticking up for those who don't always say sorry because I believe they have a legit reason not to. Okay, done now


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I think you have summed it up very well.
> 
> the other point is that though there have always been rescues around most dogs with antisocial behaviour were pts and not passed on for someone else to have an antisocial dog.
> 
> I think the apology is better. One quick sorry can defuse the situation very well. Manners in man cost nothing and manners in dogs should be trained.


Thank you. I feel all these theories and books do more bad then good and the basics are what are needed.
If the owner is confused then god knows what the dog feels.

Look at the thread on now where a new puppy owner is already confused by a trainers book who believes youshould walk away from a puppy who cannot sit, lay and roll over!!!


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I am sure it can be - but you can control the dog with a headcollar or such like and a short lead so that the dog cant kick off.
> How come there are so many 'reactive' dogs. If I had a dog that behaved like that though I would call it bad mannered. Dogs did not used to behave like that. I can honestly say that when I used to walk my dogs 4 times a day in areas where I would be meeting other dogs I never met and aggressive or bad mannered dog. They all seemed much better brought up than apparently they are nowadays. What has gone wrong.
> 
> Why should people be understanding though. If you are walking your dog and another dog is hurling around making a horrible noise and showing atrocious manners unless the owner apologises and explains the reasons of course people are going to think they are out of control and badly trained.
> And for dogs to behave like that where the non dog owning public are likely to be is just adding fuel to the fire for anti dog feelings.


A head collar or a short lead would probably increase reactivity to be honest. I can't speak for other dogs, but mine completely ignores other dogs when off the lead. She is least reactive when on a Flexi and most reactive on a short lead.

I'd hazard a guess that there are a load of reactive dogs because the way we keep dogs has changed. I'm not old by any stretch of the imaginable, but my childhood dogs were kept totally differently to the ones I have now. They roamed around with us all day nearly always off the lead mingling with all the other local dogs. They were not really restricted in any way and didn't have people commanding them constantly, being paranoid about their every move. By comparison, most dogs live a pretty restrictive life now; a life of leads and being controlled and commanded to within an inch of their lives. Add to the fact that the "I want it NOW!" culture also means tons of dogs living totally frustrating, inactive lives with owners who do not understand their innate needs. Oh, and the fact that people these days seem to be more anti social than ever....

So yes, to me it isn't surprising that there are more reactive dogs about. What you have to bare in mind that many reactive dogs are made reactive by other reactive/anti social dogs. My lead reactive dog was not born that way, she was made that way by other dogs. When a tiny 3kg dog gets bombarded by an 30kg over sexed Labradoodle, you bet she is going to be terrified. Reactivity is a form of self defense that stems from fear and when fear is ingrained it can be difficult to get to grips with.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

labradrk said:


> that many reactive dogs are made reactive by other reactive/anti social dogs. My lead reactive dog was not born that way, she was made that way by other dogs. When a tiny 3kg dog gets bombarded by an 30kg over sexed Labradoodle, you bet she is going to be terrified. Reactivity is a form of self defense that stems from fear and when fear is ingrained it can be difficult to get to grips with.


Exactly Clover started been reactive after been attacked by a big dog at 14 weeks old.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I have to laugh. Apparently I have a dog who is not only nervous and reactive, but also 'bad mannered'


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm actually disgusted by some of the views on this thread.


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

LurcherOwner said:


> I'm actually disgusted by some of the views on this thread.


Me too!!.... wonder if they are the same ones


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> No I'm not overly hung up on the apology  and yes I would rather the other owner focus on getting control of their dog but how can one little word really hurt.
> * When a lurcher type dog was jumping at me the other day* trying to get a hold of Lucky I would have been a hell of a lot more compassionate to the owner if they gave me one simple "sorry".
> 
> I don't want to have an argument over this I really don't so I'll say no more on the subject


That owner definitely should have apologised.

On the rare occasions when Dex still manages a crafty leap I profusely apologise and immediately.

I also apologise if my dog barks near or 'at' a child.

But no - I don't always apologise if my dog barks once or twice at another dog and as stated, if he really starts to kick off, my focus is totally on calming him.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I don't see Clover's barking as bad manners - I see it as a dog that is feeling scared and warning other dogs off.

My responsibility isn't to apologize for her barking, but to carry on working on ways of making her more confident around situations that she finds scary. This all takes time and positive reinforcements


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2013)

MyMillie said:


> Me too!!.... wonder if they are the same ones


Most likely haha :ihih:


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I have to laugh. Apparently I have a dog who is not only nervous and reactive, but also 'bad mannered'


My "bad mannered" dog will happily trot off lead to heel (in a safe area, not by a road!) past all manner of distractions; screaming children, picnickers, other dogs, people playing football, everything, and I know she is 100% reliable. I wouldn't dream of doing that with my two non dog reactive dogs. So I guess if on lead reactivity makes her bad mannered, I'll settle for that.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

To me it depends on the situation.

Situation 1) if my dog is off lead and runs up to someone with their dog or on their own and starts barking at them (not given a chance, on long lines) but if for whatever reason they did, even if they grumble in someones direction I ALWAYS apologise. (I have learnt my lesson years before) and now ensure it doesnt happen again and distract my dogs and walk them WELL away from people. I dont expect people to tolerate being barked at or charged at.

Situation 2) My dogs are on lead and start barking at a dog on the other side of the road. If the owner isnt fussed, I carry on and try and distract my 2, if my 2 have caused the other dog to bark I say Sorry and usually try and make light of the situation by saying "Oh god where are my paracetamols?"to which they normally laugh or give me a look to let me know theyve heard me or just blank me.

The second situation I dont feel I HAVE to say sorry as my dogs havent caused any harm to another dog and they are well away, of course if they barked at someone wearing a hat or with a brolly up close, without a doubt Id say sorry.

But if they are on the other side of the road, well away from us and just give me a filthy "horrid dogs" look, I dont bother.


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I have to laugh. Apparently I have a dog who is not only nervous and reactive, but also 'bad mannered'


I'm sorry!! but why the so defensive posts?.... I feel I have a "bad mannered" dog, i.e "screams" at other dogs, but as long as I "try" my best to helping her to be a "good dog" and throw in a "I'm sorry" along the way......surely theres no harm in that?..... there is no need whatsoever to come across as so defensive as you.....I'm the first one to understand the trials of helping our dogs no matter what "their issues are"


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

tailtickle said:


> Why is every "Rescue" dog deemed to be "abused"??? Sometimes, I feel it again gives an opportunity to excuse a behaviour. Do you think that I have not owned a Rescue dog or a dog from a home with issues? Now tell me, do you think that one of my dogs would make excuses to behave in a way that would not otherwise be natural because he/she thought, "Oh, this new addition to our family is a rescue dog or a dog with issues". No, they simply respond to a dog like a dog. I do think that sometimes, people make a situation far worse.
> 
> I don't use "magic" - just good sense, and no frills, that helps a dog feel confidence from me.
> 
> ...


What youve said here TT reminds me SO much of one of the park gossips. All his aggressive behaviours are excused because he came from a bad home (not too distant from Dotties 1st home) and she always goes back to his story and says "he does it because hes scared" but if Dottie does the same thing but re-act by barking say instead of cowering in fear shes "dominant".

Just reminded me of her and got me mad! Every person we met the story was told to, I didnt go round telling everyone Dotties story I just managed the situation not allow bad things to happen and then give a story after! But I was always the "stupid" one


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

MyMillie said:


> I'm sorry!! but why the so defensive posts?.... I feel I have a "bad mannered" dog, i.e "screams" at other dogs, but as long as I "try" my best to helping her to be a "good dog" and through in a "I'm sorry" along the way......surely theres no harm in that?..... there is no need whatsoever to come across as so defensive as you.....I'm the first one to understand the trials of helping our dogs no matter what "their issues are"


Er...what???

Where did I ever say that my dog 'screams' at other dogs???

A bark or two is not a 'scream'!

And unlike most folk, you don't seem to have realised that the post was meant to be more light-hearted - hence the 'grin' 

Nothing I have posted is remotely 'defensive'.

I have no need to be 'defensive'.

LOL LOL - so now I have a 'bad mannered' dog and I am a 'defensive' dog owner :lol:

Sorry but this is getting really funny now!


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## FEJA JUODAS (May 19, 2010)

i have to admit suprise at seeing so many people with dogs that bark at others out on the streets passing by...and pleased to see many apologise to strangers when appropriate also...not impressed that some are so busy trying to control their obviously lunging dogs that they cant manage a word like sorry ! 

depends for sure on our view of other people and their right to not be aggressed by lunges barks of strong nature...old fashioned word RESPECT comes to mind...and 

it concerns me that dog owners generally get a bad name bad reputation generally from those who dont make a token effort that as someone here put it COSTS NOTHING to diffuse the situation...surely a CHILD barked at and crying is worth calming ? worth speaking to even ? but adults also...if our dogs frighten people we owe them apologies...and need to deal with the dogs to ensure that behaviour is understood as unacceptable in public on a road..

anyway. just me thinking aloud here before i go to bed. the good manners of old with old fashioned words like RESPECT are needing replacement soon i understand it with new laws in GB that will allow the public who dislike such behaviour to charge the dog owners with the law...so maybe we dont need to think about needing to respect people anymore just wait for laws to kick in to replace practices of good manners and respect for others. seems that way to me. there is always an alternative...until too many people choose to be so negative to others that laws have to be brought in to ensure behaviour is focused on better.

dog schools are going to love these new laws hey ! means money for them !


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Er...what???
> 
> Where did I ever say that my dog 'screams' at other dogs???
> 
> ...


Ok OBAYL..... totally misunderstanding posts .....YAY for the written word!!....NEVER once did I say or even suggest you had a "screaming" dog!!........"sigh" PF is just too "bizarre" sometimes.....Phew!! .....


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## Janey D (Jul 27, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I have to laugh. Apparently I have a dog who is not only nervous and reactive, but also 'bad mannered'


I am struggling with this a bit too. Yes my dog is reactive. But its not his fault, in the same way that it wasnt his fault that he was kicked out by his previous owners, underweight with a skin infection, then lived as a stray until the dog warden picked him up.

At the end of the day it comes down to a bit of common courtesy and this is lacking in many areas of our society sadly. I find it poor manners when loose dogs charge up to me and my dog without any attempt by the owner to control them - but its the owners who are at fault here. Oh and this happens to me far more often than being barked at!


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Janey D said:


> I am struggling with this a bit too. Yes my dog is reactive. But its not his fault, in the same way that it wasnt his fault that he was kicked out by his previous owners, underweight with a skin infection, then lived as a stray until the dog warden picked him up.
> 
> At the end of the day it comes down to a bit of common courtesy and this is lacking in many areas of our society sadly. I find it poor manners when loose dogs charge up to me and my dog without any attempt by the owner to control them - but its the owners who are at fault here. Oh and this happens to me far more often than being barked at!


Any owner who lets their dog charge up to someone should definitely apologise!

My dog, like yours, had a less than fab start in life. No doubt that is partly/totally why he's so reactive. I do my very best to help him feel calm and confident and ALL my energy on a walk goes towards that. If he barks once or twice at a passing dog, so be it. I don't think it's 'bad manners' when that happens - it's simply my dog talking.

I always, always apologise if my dog *continually* barks or lunges etc. But a single bark or two short barks? I find it hard to believe that any fellow dog owner is seriously offended or upset by this!


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

MyMillie said:


> Ok OBAYL..... totally misunderstanding posts .....YAY for the written word!!...*.NEVER once did I say or even suggest you had a "screaming" dog!!........"*sigh" PF is just too "bizarre" sometimes.....Phew!! .....


I was quoting directly from your post.

Maybe we should just agree to disagree.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I was quoting directly from your post.
> 
> Maybe we should just agree to disagree.


I think she was talking about her own dog


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

foxyrockmeister said:


> I think she was talking about her own dog


Thats how I read it to


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

foxyrockmeister said:


> I think she was talking about her own dog


I concur .



MyMillie said:


> I'm sorry!! but why the so defensive posts?.... *I feel I have a "bad mannered" dog, i.e "screams" at other dogs*, but as long as I "try" my best to helping her to be a "good dog" and through in a "I'm sorry" along the way......surely theres no harm in that?..... there is no need whatsoever to come across as so defensive as you.....I'm the first one to understand the trials of helping our dogs no matter what "their issues are"


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Dogless said:


> I concur .


Thankyou Dr Dogless

[youtube_browser]ry_CGs8pvuc[/youtube_browser]


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

tailtickle said:


> If someone passes me and mine with their dog, and their dog starts barking at us, we rarely hear - "Sorry" - (from the Owner, not the dog)! LOL.
> 
> Is that a usual experience of anyone else?
> 
> tailtickle x


Only got to Page 3 on the replies, so that my own thoughts on the subject aren't merely repeating anyone else's.

I think it depends on the situation tbh. If the dog's onlead and barking, I don't really see the problem myself - the dog is still under physical control. Likewise if the dog owner is trying to calm the dog/train the dog not to bark, then again, I understand it. In these situations, it may not be feasable to say sorry - if you're working on Watch Me (my method of choice with Max) then the dog needs your full concentration, and breaking that concentration to say sorry to an owner who will most likely have already formed an opinion on you/your dog anyway isn't helping the dog.

However. What I find completely unacceptable - from my own Max, as well as other dogs - is when the dog is offlead and goes bounding up to another dog/s, barking their heads off. THAT is intimidating, for anyone. In that situation, the dog owner most definately should apologise and get their dog on a lead - and yes, I've done exactly that.

Max barks quite a lot.  I'm working at getting it under control, but it seems he's getting worse the older he gets. If the owner is close enough, Max is under control and he's stopped barking, I'll explain my dog can be a bit temperamental at times, but it's not the end of my world if another passer-by/dog owner thinks I'm "one of _those _owners with an aggressive dog".

Another thing that needs to be taken into account is the tone of the bark and the reaction from the other dog. If the tone is a friendly, playing tone, then no, I don't see the need to apologise for my dog being noisy, but friendly. Is the other dog concerned? However, if it's a tone conveying aggression and/or fear, then, ana apology/explanation is in order.

Still though, I'm sure I'm not the first to say any of this, but I'd rather my own dog give me some indication that it isn't happy/comfortable in a situation than just go straight on the attack.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> Only got to Page 3 on the replies, so that my own thoughts on the subject aren't merely repeating anyone else's.
> 
> I think it depends on the situation tbh. If the dog's onlead and barking, I don't really see the problem myself - the dog is still under physical control. Likewise if the dog owner is trying to calm the dog/train the dog not to bark, then again, I understand it. In these situations, it may not be feasable to say sorry - if you're working on Watch Me (my method of choice with Max) then the dog needs your full concentration, and breaking that concentration to say sorry to an owner who will most likely have already formed an opinion on you/your dog anyway isn't helping the dog.
> 
> ...


Well said.

I totally agree.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I wouldn't apologise nor would I expect an apology - dogs barking, to me is a way of them communicating with each other. Now if my dog barked at a person, that's different and I know I would apologise and I would ensure I gave the person a wide berth, or stand still with my dog close to me, furthest away from the other person. My dog hasn't barked at anyone but I use these methods when I sense a person is wary/frighten of Duke.

Duke will stand poised if he is unsure of someone (usually a drunk). I don't apologise I just reassure my dog its okay - come on love. Basically break his concentration/focus on the other person.


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

I haven't read the whole thread but Whisper can be defensively reactive (and nowadays she can be protective of Teddy too!) resulting her barking at people - usually at dogs though - it's very rare she barks at people.

I have often apologised to people if the occasion seemed to need it - usually they are too busy laughing at Whisper though because she's big and fluffy and just not in the least bit scary! 

Usually I'm trying to distract her with a treat but _always_ make sure that people realise I do not view her behaviour as accceptable. I do tell people she's a rescue - what's wrong with that? 

It's not an excuse. It's that she has some hang-ups that not being a miracle worker I can't cure. Like her terror of sticks when we first got her (she is tons better with that) and her general nervousness of every dog we met when we first got her. I wish she could tell me why she sometimes reacts the way she does but she can't. I've never had a bad reaction to Whisper's behaviour yet though.

Teddy is a puppy and I do tell people he is still 'learning' - they can see me using a clicker and treats wayy before they get near me with or without dogs and if people think I'm excusing my dogs' behaviour by doing that then so be it! He *is* still learning acceptable doggy manners. He isn't allowed to run up to other dogs but he would if he could! It also means that people try and help in his socialisation by letting their friendly dogs greet him where normally they'd probably just walk past.

I feel very lucky though. We don't have bad walks. I find the vast majority of people we meet round here to be friendly and happy to greet the dogs (especially Teddy!) - whether they have dogs themselves or not. We've had some lovely conversations with tons of people on the last two bigger walks they've had and locally the two of them have quite a fan club. 

As a fellow dog owner I too find that off-lead dogs are far more of a problem than barking dogs and find that far less acceptable. Yes they may be friendly but Whisper can be nervous and doesn't like to be 'hassled'. Then Teddy wants to play but he's on lead and gets frustrated with his lead. Whisper is far more likely to bark on-lead but we put her on-lead because we don't feel it's respectful to let her wander up to other people and their dogs!


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> *I always, always apologise if my dog *continually* barks or lunges etc. But a single bark or two short barks? I find it hard to believe that any fellow dog owner is seriously offended or upset by this!*


I totally agree with this. My dogs are silent on walks but if a dog barked once or twice I wouldn't think anything of it and see no reason why they should apologise. Now if the dog is lunging, snarling, barking excessively etc then that's totally different!

If someone or their dog can't cope with a dog giving one or two short barks from a distance then to be honest that's their problem.


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

I should add - Whisper has to be one of the worst named dogs in England - she is really gobby girly!!! :lol:


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

If I meet people with barking dogs I'd much rather that they focus on stopping their dog from barking than apologizing to me.

It happens that my dog barks at other dogs if she's on lead. She does it because she wants to greet them, but can't because she's on lead so she gets frustrated. When she does, I need to focus on her to get her attention back and when I do get it I just can turn to the other dog and owner to apologize. If I break our contact in that situation it'd most likely set her off again. To get my dog to stop barking, for the moment _and_ for the future, is much more important to me than if people think that I'm impolite.


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Depends on the situation. Unless a dog came running up to me barking then I would not expect an apology.
We have a field at the end of our garden and very occasionally people will walk right along the fence which will make my dogs bark, I apologise for it but I won't stop my dogs from doing it because they are protecting their territory.


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

When I first had Rex I spent a LOT of time apologising. "Sorry" takes me about a second to say, I could usually manage _that_ even when Rex was intent on doggicide.

I don't think it acceptable to have a dog bark at people or other dogs. Rex never barked at people and he generally snarled at dogs rather than barked but same principle.

Yes, I can stop him. The command to be quiet is "nuff" and he stops every time AND he's mostly GSD. The command to stop him lunging at another dog is "leave it" followed by "heel" if he's out of position and/or "watch" to make him look at me and drop the "death stare".

All it takes is hard work, determination and a good deal of help from here and a behaviourist.

I can't make him like other dogs and I can't eradicate his desire to kill them but I can make him safe and stop him being rude and intimidating.

I can also apologise if he's out of line.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Sophie is fine offlead, may if a woof in their direction. Sophie could give rats ass about other dogs as long as they give her space.

When they come racing over she reacts, more so on lead and its not pretty at the best of times. I'm not gonna apologize as Sophie has never insegated a fight.


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

We all think differently and there are degrees of reaction from our dogs.

When Rex had a young GSD break a stay and rush over to him and jump on him. I not only apologised I grovelled:
a) Rex invites trouble with his body language, it's no coincidence that the GSD attacked Rex rather than any of the other dogs
b) Rex had the young GSD down and p!ssing itself with fear as it screamed. It was HORRIBLE and it was only Rex's muzzle that stopped him hurting/killing it.

The level of Rex's "defence" was such that _I _was grovelling. If he'd just had a bit of a bark............if only he'd just had a bit of a bark......... that said I'd have corrected him for barking and apologised too.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

MyMillie said:


> I'm sorry!! but why the so defensive posts?.... I feel I have a "bad mannered" dog, i.e "screams" at other dogs, but as long as I "try" my best to helping her to be a "good dog" and throw in a "I'm sorry" along the way......surely theres no harm in that?..... there is no need whatsoever to come across as so defensive as you.....I'm the first one to understand the trials of helping our dogs no matter what "their issues are"


I do agree with you. one of mine is over friendly and will squeak and try and get at other dogs. We very seldom meet other dogs so it is hard to eradicate her bad manners - and yes I consider it very bad manners. I can apologise though and I have spent a little while being quite hard on her and I think she has improved a lot though I have not had to walk her past a dog for months so could not be sure!

I do know that putting a dog on a short lead is not always the best way to TRAIN the dog to be quieter around other dogs - but if you are in a situation where your dog is going to intimidate or annoy other people or dogs then you have to do it. It is your fault for putting the dog in the situation, it is not the fault of the other person or dog - why should they suffer while you train your dog.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

I think people are getting way to emotional and defensive over this thread. 

I also still think it very much depends on the area you walk in ie city suburbs where you don't really know your neighbours or a small hamlet where everyone knows everyone. 

Personally my thoughts are if you choose to stay on say the same side of the road as another dog and your dog reacts / lunges or in any way causes the other person or their dog case for reaction or alarm then of course you should apologise. 

And the word 'sorry' or 'its all noise sorry' doesn't take longer than a second or two and doesn't involve removing your eyes from your dog. 

So many on this thread are saying heir dogs issues started from a negative experience - how do you know the dog which your dog is directing its behaviour at isn't getting over a bad experience itself? ? or what impact reactivity directed solely at it in close proximity could have on the dog or the person? 

For instance Millie has before pulled towards another dog when walking past - the other dog is a greyhound who I know is dog aggressive. Of course I apologised - Millie was the one who caused the other dog to react. 

In the past when Millie was going through her greet every dog phase like a loon - pulling - excited and quite frankly rude I would pull into a drive with her in a sit if another dog came along (path on one side of road around here ) I would always say 'good morning' to other dog walkers. They wold usually reply 'she's doing well' 'have a nice walk' etc.

So really my standing is if for instance someone crossed the road to avoid a close passing (to avoid stress to me / my dog) then of course I don't expect an apology. They done the responsible thing - gave themselves more room and dealt with the situation at hand. If they make no effort to avoid a situation which causes alarm to Millie or me then yes I would expect them to say sorry. 

I think basic manners have been lost in a lot of areas of society.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I do agree with you. one of mine is over friendly and will squeak and try and get at other dogs. We very seldom meet other dogs so it is hard to eradicate her bad manners - *and yes I consider it very bad manners*. I can apologise though and I have spent a little while being quite hard on her and I think she has improved a lot though I have not had to walk her past a dog for months so could not be sure!
> 
> I do know that putting a dog on a short lead is not always the best way to TRAIN the dog to be quieter around other dogs - but if you are in a situation where your dog is going to intimidate or annoy other people or dogs then you have to do it. It is your fault for putting the dog in the situation, it is not the fault of the other person or dog - why should they suffer while you train your dog.


As I believe several of us have tried hard to convey, it is not 'bad manners' when a dog is so scared or nervous that it kicks off.

That is not 'bad manners'.

Bad manners is if I allowed my dog to jump at people - I never do. On the odd occasion Dex manages a little leap I apologise instantly, repeatedly, profusely.

But when a dog is scared and thus barking/lunging/etc - no, that is NOT 'bad manners'.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Sorry, but to all those who are saying they'd expect/offer an apology because the other dog/your dog could be nervous by the barker, I have to disagree, and I put forward this hypothetical to support it:

You come across a stray dog - owner nowhere to be seen (for the purpose of this hypothesis the dog DOES have an owner ... not a very good one, to let it stray, obviously, but it does have an owner). Your dog barks at it. Would you seek out the other owner to apologise for the way your dog might have made the straying dog feel?

Or...

Would you seek out a cat's owner because your dog barked/lunged at their cat? The cat's obviously afraid and ran off.

My point is, it's got nothing to do with the feelings of the other dog/the cat. It's about us - _our _emotions, _our _feelings. That's what you're apologising for.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> As I believe several of us have tried hard to convey, it is not 'bad manners' when a dog is so scared or nervous that it kicks off.
> 
> That is not 'bad manners'.
> 
> ...


I wasn't going to say anymore but oh well 

Regardless whether or not certain behaviours are bad manners, it's still not the fault of the person or dog on the receiving end. The opinion that it's not bad manners doesn't justify causing a negative reaction in the other person or dog.

I do think every situation is different but if a dog is relentlessly barking at another and it's obviously causing a problem for the other walker and their dog then I think an apology is common courtesy.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> I wasn't going to say anymore but oh well
> 
> Regardless whether or not certain behaviours are bad manners, it's still not the fault of the person or dog on the receiving end. The opinion that it's not bad manners doesn't justify causing a negative reaction in the other person or dog.
> 
> I do think every situation is different but if a dog is relentlessly barking at another and it's obviously causing a problem for the other walker and their dog then I think an apology is common courtesy.


I think the problem here is that some people find it rude and some people do not. I live in a concrete jungle, I can hear dogs barking all the time, hence it doesn't bother me one bit and from where I'm sat there's no apology necessary. I often walk past a man with 2 dogs, a staff and a GSD and thy both go absolutely bonkers on the lead barking in what appears to be an aggressive manner, but actually they are just frustrated because they want to say hello. Were I not a dog owner I might feel quite intimidated, but being a fellow dog owner I don't give two hoots because I know what's going on and don't feel like he should spend his life apologising to people if he tries his best to work on their issues.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

For me there is a difference if Clover barks at people or dogs.

I will not tolerate her barking at people (and she actually doesn't anymore) but if she's finding another dog threatening then she's warning them off


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Goldstar said:


> I wasn't going to say anymore but oh well
> 
> Regardless whether or not certain behaviours are bad manners, it's still not the fault of the person or dog on the receiving end. The opinion that it's not bad manners doesn't justify causing a negative reaction in the other person or dog.
> 
> I do think every situation is different but if a dog is relentlessly barking at another and it's obviously causing a problem for the other walker and their dog then I think an apology is *common courtesy*.


Which is something lacking a lot in modern society


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> As I believe several of us have tried hard to convey, it is not 'bad manners' when a dog is so scared or nervous that it kicks off.
> 
> That is not 'bad manners'.
> 
> ...


Of course it is bad manners. As far as anyone walking by is concerned the dog is showing bad manners. There has been no apology or explanation, all the other person sees is a bad mannered dog. If you would rather then I will say the owner has bad manners allowing their dog to exhibit such behaviour close to other people or if it happens by mistake then in not apologising and explaining.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Of course it is bad manners. As far as anyone walking by is concerned the dog is showing bad manners. There has been no apology or explanation, all the other person sees is a bad mannered dog. If you would rather then I will say the owner has bad manners allowing their dog to exhibit such behaviour close to other people or if it happens by mistake then in not apologising and explaining.


My dog often farts without shame when we have visitors over. I suppose that's bad manners.

Or are you somehow mixing up your human perception of manners and what dog manners are?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> My dog often farts without shame when we have visitors over. I suppose that's bad manners.
> 
> Or are you somehow mixing up your human perception of manners and what dog manners are?


Now you are being incredibly stupid. If you want your dog to be a welcome member of society then you have to make sure that it shows good manners when out in public.
One of mine is a very polite and good mannered dog and the other is a thug but I have the same expectations for both of them.
It is up to you to teach your dog to behave in such a way that it will be welcome and not give dogs a bad name out there in the normal world.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Now you are being incredibly stupid. If you want your dog to be a welcome member of society then you have to make sure that it shows good manners when out in public.
> One of mine is a very polite and good mannered dog and the other is a thug but I have the same expectations for both of them.
> It is up to you to teach your dog to behave in such a way that it will be welcome and not give dogs a bad name out there in the normal world.


I don't think you quite realise that not everybody is of the same viewpoint as yourself. What one person finds 'rude' another finds endearing. For example I do not let my dog jump up at people, as I don't think it appropriate, however my father loves my dog jumping up at him so encourages at at every turn. I don't find it rude for a dog to bark, just as many others don't. If you want to push your own human views of manners onto everyone and their dogs that's your choice, it's also my choice not to care about you judging me to your own standard, as mine is entirely different. You can't please all the people all the time.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Blitz said:


> Of course it is bad manners. As far as anyone walking by is concerned the dog is showing bad manners. There has been no apology or explanation, all the other person sees is a bad mannered dog. If you would rather then I will say the owner has bad manners allowing their dog to exhibit such behaviour close to other people or if it happens by mistake then in not apologising and explaining.


That is why I always apologise if Kilo barks. They don't know why he's barking - so I apologise and offer a quick explanation if it's appropriate - a lot of the time I am totally blanked as folk round here can be incredibly rude but at least I have tried. If I see them when I don't have Kilo I'll catch them if appropriate and say that I'm sorry - new people in our street cut across our drive just as we were getting ready to leave the house a while back. I didn't see them in time so couldn't get Kilo sat and he went mad at the (glass) door barking at them - so I walked them and then went and said that I was sorry for the noise and slobber display, no harm in being courteous I don't think.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I think the point is if we don't care about our dogs bad manners then other members of society will be more bothered.

What is a quick sorry. You dont even need to mean it.

I don't mind dogs jumping at me and two frencies love o bundle on mewhen I seethem and even though their owner knows I don't mind she always just throws in a sorry.

It is just courtesy. Even if we do not find it rude others may.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Dogless said:


> That is why I always apologise if Kilo barks. They don't know why he's barking - so I apologise and offer a quick explanation if it's appropriate - a lot of the time I am totally blanked as folk round here can be incredibly rude but at least I have tried. If I see them when I don't have Kilo I'll catch them if appropriate and say that I'm sorry - new people in our street cut across our drive just as we were getting ready to leave the house a while back. I didn't see them in time so couldn't get Kilo sat and he went mad at the (glass) door barking at them - so I walked them and then went and said that I was sorry for the noise and slobber display, no harm in being courteous I don't think.


Excellent post Dogless - exactly manners cost nothing.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> I think the point is if we don't care about our dogs bad manners then other members of society will be more bothered.
> 
> What is a quick sorry. You dont even need to mean it.
> 
> ...


Some people think it's rude to dress differently, or have certain peircings, or look a certain way. I certainly don't think people should spend their life apologising for being who they are, just as I don't expect people to apologise for their dog being themselves. I have many more things to worry about in life than someones under control but reactive dog. Understanding goes both ways.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

I do wonder if in this thread there is confusion as to whom or what your dog is barking at:

I have already stated I apologise if I feel my dog has acted out in general BUT:

For example: 

If my dog barked at a stranger or friend without a dog- I would definitely apologise (it's never happened yet)

If my dog barked at someone's dog and he started it I would apologise- cause that's what I do- and depending on the bark, excited/unsure/ confrontational ( I know my dog) I would stop him barking and if walking locally or if so inclined and can see other person is inclined will happily exchange a few words

If another person's dog starts off my dog barking, I probably won't apologise- but will sort mine out and again happily converse, I would like to hear an apology from the other person, but again apologies don't have to be vocal- you can generally look at someone and see that they're embarrassed- again i'd prefer if they were dealing with their dog's behaviour.

Sometimes later in a walk we've passed each other again and a cursory wave or nod has been given.

I feel like we're mixing up dogs barking at people or other dogs- if we're not then oopps- I better get back to work


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I think the point is if we don't care about our dogs bad manners then other members of society will be more bothered.
> 
> What is a quick sorry. You dont even need to mean it.
> 
> ...


Your first point exactly.

And we wonder why less and less places are dog friendly and councils tighten up on dog lead restrictions.

A 'Sorry' and acknowledgement of causing possible stress/ fright to another goes along way and shows responsibility of our dogs actions.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Julesky said:


> I do wonder if in this thread there is confusion as to whom or what your dog is barking at:
> 
> I have already stated I apologise if I feel my dog has acted out in general BUT:
> 
> ...


Indeed. The OP was quite vague and can emcompass many things. If my dog was kicking off or barking at someone in the street I would be quite mortified and apologise, if she barked at another dog I wouldn't however, because I expect a certain amount of understanding from another dog owner and if they see me trying to shut my dog up I feel that's enough. I'd rather someone was using it as a training opportunity and focusing on their dog.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

If my dogs barks at another dog I won't be apologising because I'm not sorry, I don't believe I should be remorseful for my dog voicing it's discomfort at another do in it's proximity. I will take control of my dog and focus on them to calm them down and if that hurts someone's feelings then they need to grow a thicker skin. "A dog barked at mine and no one said sorry, now I am emotionally scarred for life" Seriously? If that's the case I suggest you see a counsellor to help you deal with the world at large :lol:


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Now you are being incredibly stupid. If you want your dog to be a welcome member of society then you have to make sure that it shows good manners when out in public.
> One of mine is a very polite and good mannered dog and *the other is a thug but I have the same expectations for both of them.*It is up to you to teach your dog to behave in such a way that it will be welcome and not give dogs a bad name out there in the normal world.


How does this work then? :huh: You have a dog that's good mannered, one that isn't, but you expect the same from them both. If we go by your own previous posts in this very thread, you shouldn't _have _the ill mannered dog, because s/he'd be as well mannered as the other. 



emmaviolet said:


> I think the point is if we don't care about our dogs bad manners then other members of society will be more bothered.
> 
> What is a quick sorry. You dont even need to mean it.
> 
> ...


Now see, a dog jumping up at me I'd find very inappropriate, and I'd definately expect an apology from the owner so the fact she offers you one - even if you don't mind - would be appreciated by me.

And whoever said anyone here doesn't care if their dog is "bad mannered" or not? So far as I've seen (admittedly, I've not read every single reply, although I have made progress and got up to Page 9 ), no-one has suggested we just ignore the situation completely. What people HAVE said (again, so far as I've read) is that, instead of offering an apology, we'd prefer to work on the behaviour, maybe throwing in an apology if the situation allows/calls for it.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

To be fair I bend down to talk to them.

I think my not minding stems from being born into dogs, I was forever crawling by them and learning to walk on them. Plus we had a shop with lots of country dogs coming in and me giving them fusses. I know a lot of people do not like it that is why Alfie doesnt do ot to anyone when out and as a pup when he did touch with a paw or something a genuine big apology was given and the assurance he was a puppy and a WIP.

At the vets he met a man who sat on the floor outside and asked him to jump on him as he wanted a cuddle. He made him do it but I still said sorry when he jumped up.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Since Buck broke his leg last year and was not allowed to play with other dogs he has started barking at other dogs and this starts Willow off to. I always make them both sit and focus on me if we see a dog coming towards us. I do apologise for their behaviour.

A couple of days ago I was walking the chihuahua's when a man came towards us with 2 english bulls and a staffie x. As he approached he went onto the grass with his dogs and shouted to me that the 2 EB's are friendly and the staffie will bark but is all mouth and no action all 3 were on leads as were mine. We passed with no sound out of any of his dogs little Lily barked quietly which the man found quite funny. Lily got told to shut up and I apologised. This man was a stranger not someone we had seen around before.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

tailtickle said:


> [/I]
> 
> Dogs also _"choose"_ to wee/poo indoors - until, we train and teach them to go outside!
> 
> ...


Im sorry but..........you have no idea.
I've been working on my dogs lead-reactivity to other dogs since he was 5 months old. He's 15 months now. And only minimal improvement has occured. 
I've tried lots of different methods, so the implication that those of us with reactive dogs just don't bother training them is total BS.
Most people here with reactive dogs are doing more training on a daily basis than you ever do, I'd imagine.

But since you're an expert, kindly tell me how to stop my 15 month old dobe barking at passing dogs. I'd love to know your fail safe method. It sounds like you must have worked with a lot of reactive dogs to have such a solid idea of how to fix it, so I'd love to know what you have tried and put into practise and seen results from?

Oh......wait.

I doubt you've ever even had a reactive dog, let alone spent hours and hours researching how to fix it, talking to other dog people, even talking to behaviourists about this very issue? 
Would you like me to list all the methods I've tried? In detail? And the months I stuck to each one without much improvement?
At the moment, we're doing BAT, and that seems to be showing SOME results, finally, but he is not perfect, nor will he probably ever be.
Given that this behaviour came out of the blue, unexpectedly, and that I've worked on it ever since, I really don't think you're in any position to be speaking on this subject, or on how those of us with reactive dogs are just not bothered, or don't care enough to train them.

Hey, why don't all reactive dog owners on here come and explain what we've done, in detail, over the months or years to try and solve this issue?
Its really not as easy as you seem to be implying.
My dog is house trained, wonderfully obedient, totally loving to people and his family, even the cats, walks well on the lead, plays well with other dogs off lead, will drop like a stone into a down when I ask, even from a distance, and stay there until I tell him to come, and so on.
He has ONE issue: barking at dogs on leads.
And as with every other issue he has ever shown, I work, work, work on it.

You honestly don't know what you're talking about. If you knew the lengths I go to to make our walks have as little impact on other dog owners as I can, the measures I have to put in place, the effort I make so people like you don't gob off at me and my dog, you just.....you wouldn't say any of this.

Go away, read up on lead reactivity, learn a bit about this issue, realise it isn't always the owners fault, and that most of us are working damn hard, shedding blood, sweat and tears over this problem, then come back and I might give your view some credit.

Also, I have to add, if my dog was a chi or a yorkie, 99% of people wouldn't bat an eyelid at some yapping on lead.
He is a doberman. And when he barks, people come down much harder on him, which is totally unfair.
I see barky, reactive terriers and toy dogs all the time, and no-one cares. My boy behaves the same way, and wow, he's suddenly out for blood.

He's controlled, he does not bark at people, only dogs, and I have him safely out of the way, on his lead, where he cannot do any damage other than to my ears!
I apologise when I can, but to be honest, my priority is more making him comfortable, not concentrating on explaining to passers by who, if your post is anything to go by, will still not cut me any slack......


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

Blitz said:


> And maybe if you did not rush by and actually spent a few minutes training the dog then the behaviour would go away.


LMAO.
Its just that easy, folks! A few minutes training, and poof! Your reactive dog is fixed!

Oh dear god.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Shadowrat. You say he is doing no damage, only to your ears.

He could be causing a lot of damage to other dogs, making them fearful or reactive too.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Shadowrat. You say he is doing no damage, only to your ears.
> 
> He could be causing a lot of damage to other dogs, making them fearful or reactive too.


I empathise with Shadowrat on this as it's exceptionally hard to work with a lead reactive dog. Like s/he has said, it takes months, years of work and I don't know of any owner of a dog like this who doesn't work very hard to cure it. We might have made a breakthrough this last month but it's taken an hour or two of training every single day since Jan to feel that I've captured it enough to feel less nervous. And with Molly it's just because she wants to play not bite.

I don't seek out (and I hope nobody else does) dogs to practise on without permission from the owner. It works both ways. I try to say sorry if we encounter a dog as life is like that, well bellow it really but I have to walk Molly away and ensure she is safe too.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

LinznMilly said:


> How does this work then? :huh: You have a dog that's good mannered, one that isn't, but you expect the same from them both. If we go by your own previous posts in this very thread, you shouldn't _have _the ill mannered dog, because s/he'd be as well mannered as the other.


How do you think it works. I take care with the rude dog and make sure she is not in a position to annoy people. If it happens because I have slipped up then I apologise for being a yob. Not exactly rocket science.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Blitz said:


> How do you think it works. I take care with the rude dog and make sure she is not in a position to annoy people. If it happens because I have slipped up then I apologise for being a yob. Not exactly rocket science.


*BUT*, training fixes everything so your dog shouldn't be a ... what word did you use? ... that's right, a thug. Because if we owners with reactive dogs put in "a few minutes of training", our dogs would be as shining an example as your other dog. 

I apologise, I'm twisting your words, and I shouldn't, but either training fixes everything and your dogs are shining examples of canine society, or training _doesn't _fix everything the dog remains a work in progress, and you yourself have to employ other methods for dealing with your "thuggish" dog as well as/instead of training. Which is what I'm reading in the quote above.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Blitz said:


> How do you think it works. I take care with the rude dog and make sure she is not in a position to annoy people. If it happens because I have slipped up then I apologise for being a yob. Not exactly rocket science.


Probably quite easy when you don't walk your dogs and they rarely leave your vicinity. For the majority of us who walk in places where people and dogs are commonplace I think you'll find it's a much different experience.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

LinznMilly said:


> *BUT*, training fixes everything so your dog shouldn't be a ... what word did you use? ... that's right, a thug. Because if we owners with reactive dogs put in "a few minutes of training", our dogs would be as shining an example as your other dog.
> 
> I apologise, I'm twisting your words, and I shouldn't, but either training fixes everything and your dogs are shining examples of canine society, or training _doesn't _fix everything the dog remains a work in progress, and you yourself have to employ other methods for dealing with your "thuggish" dog as well as/instead of training. Which is what I'm reading in the quote above.


Training is the art of taking credit for fixing just the problems your dog never had in the first place.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

I do understand where the OP is coming from but worth bearing in mind (so that you don't take it personally if you don't get an apology) that the owner with the barking dog may be too preoccupied with trying to get their dog sub-threshold again and solve the problem. Others may be too embarrassed to say anything. 

"There but for the grace of God I go". 

I don't tend to have too many problems with dogs barking at my dogs because, as I've learnt more and more about dog behaviour, I can read and detect from a distance whether an approaching dog looks like it may react or be inappropriate and will thus avoid such dogs/owners and any kind of proximity/interaction with them (above all onlead) because it is likely to upset or worry my own dogs. 

The ones that are difficult are dogs that run around corners or "from nowhere" (something I cannot predict) to bark at or bundle my dogs or choose to pursue us, similarly owners with dogs on flexi-leads with the flexi set at "go wherever and annoy whoever you want". I avoid places where I think I may find dogs like this. I chuck treats at fast approaching dogs (who will not recall to their owners) to distract them briefly so that I can make a sharp exit with my onlead dog.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

LinznMilly said:


> *BUT*, training fixes everything so your dog shouldn't be a ... what word did you use? ... that's right, a thug. Because if we owners with reactive dogs put in "a few minutes of training", our dogs would be as shining an example as your other dog.
> 
> I apologise, I'm twisting your words, and I shouldn't, but either training fixes everything and your dogs are shining examples of canine society, or training _doesn't _fix everything the dog remains a work in progress, and you yourself have to employ other methods for dealing with your "thuggish" dog as well as/instead of training. Which is what I'm reading in the quote above.


Yes, training should fix it. If I was walking my dogs around other dogs every day then the problem would be trained out. As it is I have a dog that is 2 and a half years old and has probably been in that sort of situation half a dozen times in her life. I do not consider it ok for her to behave badly even on these occasions therefore I have spent some time on it. As I said though, I am not sure if I have trained some manners into her or not as I have not actually been in a position to check it out since I spent time with her on it.
I am going on holiday with the dogs in May so I will find out then! If she is still as bad I will be saying sorry an awful lot.

On the other hand I did spend many years walking dogs 4 times a day in the sort of situation where I needed them to ignore other dogs and people and it really did not take long to teach them to walk nicely on the lead and ignore everything around them.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Yes, training should fix it. If I was walking my dogs around other dogs every day then the problem would be trained out. As it is I have a dog that is 2 and a half years old and has probably been in that sort of situation half a dozen times in her life. I do not consider it ok for her to behave badly even on these occasions therefore I have spent some time on it. As I said though, I am not sure if I have trained some manners into her or not as I have not actually been in a position to check it out since I spent time with her on it.
> I am going on holiday with the dogs in May so I will find out then! If she is still as bad I will be saying sorry an awful lot.
> 
> On the other hand I did spend many years walking dogs 4 times a day in the sort of situation where I needed them to ignore other dogs and people and it *really did not take long to teach them to walk nicely on the lead and ignore everything around them*.


What methods did you use? And how old were the dogs? I think plenty on here could do with hearing more about your methods- me included

All advice welcome


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## Wyrekin (Sep 10, 2012)

Blitz said:


> On the other hand I did spend many years walking dogs 4 times a day in the sort of situation where I needed them to ignore other dogs and people and it really did not take long to teach them to walk nicely on the lead and ignore everything around them.


How long ago was this? Was it back when there were less reactive dogs around or just fewer in general, as you mentioned earlier in the thread? In which case it probably was a quicker process as there was less likely to be incidents that set the dogs back. How ingrained were the behaviours? How severe was the reaction that needed work on?

I know dogs who are a bit vocal and their noise problem could be solved in a short space of time, I personally would not label these dogs reactive but some others might. I do however own one who genuinely is reactive (in my eyes) and he is not going to be a quick fix. It's going to take him a very long time to get over what he went through at the start of his life. In the meantime I will continue to manage/train him and apologise where I can but I hope people recognise that I have do not feel his behaviour can be excused (though I don't believe it's bad manners, just fear) by saying he is a rescue with a bad start.


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I am going on holiday with the dogs in May so I will find out then! If she is still as bad I will be saying sorry an awful lot.
> 
> On the other hand I did spend many years walking dogs 4 times a day in the sort of situation where I needed them to ignore other dogs and people and it really did not take long to teach them to walk nicely on the lead and ignore everything around them.


Well seeing as it does not take you long to teach a dog to ignore everything around them would it not be better to start taking her out about to see other dogs etc now rather than leave it until you are on holiday? Then your dog will not be potentially causing stress and worry to other people and their dogs and you will not have to keep saying you are sorry.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

3dogs2cats said:


> Well seeing as it does not take you long to teach a dog to ignore everything around them would it not be better to start taking her out about to see other dogs etc now rather than leave it until you are on holiday? Then your dog will not be potentially causing stress and worry to other people and their dogs and you will not have to keep saying you are sorry.


that would be rather expensive and time consuming where I live - would probably have to go on holiday first or go 18 miles into town and cruise around looking for another dog that was being walked so I could hop out of the car and walk by it.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> Shadowrat. You say he is doing no damage, only to your ears.
> 
> He could be causing a lot of damage to other dogs, making them fearful or reactive too.


Interesting you say this, because one of the things I spent a lot of time observing when this behaviour first occured was the response of the dogs he reacted to. I wanted to work out why he reacted: was it fear, aggression, excitement etc so I could better figure how to solve it. And watching the reaction of other dogs is the best way to work out what his intentions are.

And I have never seen another dog react nervously to him. Most ignore him, some simply glance and carry on. I can hand on heart say I have never seen a dog react with fear to his barking.
Given that I tend to avoid other dogs whenever remotely possible, just to avoid the situation all together, we don't get that many 'displays' any more, only when I absolutely cannot get avoid the dog (like if it comes around a blind corner) or treat distractions don't work. Which is the minority of the tiime these days.

But regardless of that, what else can I do? 
What do you propose I do? 
I manage it as best I can, and I am working on it, and have been for months, hard, every day. We have made some progress, but I still can't walk past another dog on lead. 
I walk early morning and late night, just to try and avoid the drama, I train, I practise a hell of a lot of avoidance, and deal with it with training when I cannot avoid, but I live in a city.
I don't have the luxury of lots of space where we don't see other dogs. If my dog doesn't go for walks around town, where there will always be other dogs, then he doesn't go for walks.

I'd love to live somewhere secluded, where other dogs would be a minor issue, but I don't. I do my best, like all other reactive dog owners, what else can I do?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Shadowrat said:


> Interesting you say this, because one of the things I spent a lot of time observing when this behaviour first occured was the response of the dogs he reacted to. I wanted to work out why he reacted: was it fear, aggression, excitement etc so I could better figure how to solve it. And watching the reaction of other dogs is the best way to work out what his intentions are.
> 
> And I have never seen another dog react nervously to him. Most ignore him, some simply glance and carry on. I can hand on heart say I have never seen a dog react with fear to his barking.
> Given that I tend to avoid other dogs whenever remotely possible, just to avoid the situation all together, we don't get that many 'displays' any more, only when I absolutely cannot get avoid the dog (like if it comes around a blind corner) or treat distractions don't work. Which is the minority of the tiime these days.
> ...


I do mean this in a suggestive way (rather than confrontational- you know how stuff can be misread  )

Have you considered avoiding the issue won't help it longterm- he doesn't sound aggressive, maybe more excitable and by removing the opportunity for him to get used to dogs being around and not acting like a ninny makes them all the more exciting?


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Probably quite easy when you don't walk your dogs and they rarely leave your vicinity. For the majority of us who walk in places where people and dogs are commonplace I think you'll find it's a much different experience.


I was going to say......Im SURE I heard the Blitz rarely walks their dogs........glad I didn't just make that up. Not really sure what makes them think they're qualified to judge, in that case.......

But yes, when you live in a busy city where walks on lead involve going around town and housing estates and streets, surrounded by people and often other dogs, it is VASTLY different to if you have the luxury of having a lot of land of your own, or live in a quiet, rural area where you can avoid other dogs much more easily. If only. How lovely would that be.

But as a responsible owner, I choose to put my big girl pants on and deal with it by addressing my dog's issue and keeping up our regular walking routine and using it as a training opportunity.
My next door neighbour doesn't even walk his dog, because it is reactive and he can't be bothered with it. You'd be surprised how many people take this route. 
I refuse.
I am lucky in that Dres only barks. I feel unending sympathy for those with dogs who do more than that, who snarl or seriously do wish to do harm to other dogs. It must be hell. Dres is just noisy and gobby, and can usually be distracted, for which I am grateful. But I really respect those with dogs worse than him who soldier on and continue working. They deserve respect, not venom and judgement.

As someone has said, this is not a 'quick fix' problem. It can take months or years to fix reactivity in a dog. Find me any reputable behaviourist who claims reactivity can be fixed in only a few days...........It is one of the more challenging behaviours to 'fix'. And if one method doesn't work, you try another. And not all methods will work for all dogs, it depends on a ton of factors like WHY the dog reacts, how long it has been doing it, if its only specific dogs or specific breeds they react to, whether they only react in certain areas or under certain situations. Its a very hard problem to deal with because it is also not 'controlled', ie, when you're out on a walk you have no idea if you're going to round the corner right into another dog. That puts a very different spin on it, where you have to think fast, react fast, and constantly be ready for a confrontation.

One thing I think all owners of reactive dogs here would agree on, though, is that we do our best. 
For everyone who whinges ignorantly about our 'rude' dogs, believe me, it is FAR more upsetting for us as the owners of the dog than it is for you as the 'victim' of barks. I have been in tears in the past about Dres's reactivity, I have been at my wits end trying everything I could. So when someone comes along, someone who has not the slightest idea of what it is like to have a reactive dog, bleating and babbling about what awful owners we are..........well.............I can't really say what I feel like saying to them. 
Its very easy to judge, isn't it. So many people need to take a good, long, hard look at themselves before condemning others who are responsible, caring owners doing their absolute best to deal with a difficult issue.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

Julesky said:


> I do mean this in a suggestive way (rather than confrontational- you know how stuff can be misread  )
> 
> Have you considered avoiding the issue won't help it longterm- he doesn't sound aggressive, maybe more excitable and by removing the opportunity for him to get used to dogs being around and not acting like a ninny makes them all the more exciting?


At the moment, we use the method of letting him see the other dog first. I have about 3 or 4 seconds from him clocking the dog to him barking, so what I do is let him see the dog, but turn and walk away BEFORE he reacts, giving lots of praise and treats. 
This seems to be the method that is working best for us, in all we've done. With him, its a touch of anxiety, too, in that he feels trapped on lead and a bit vulnerable. So he barks partly as a defensive thing. So by me taking control and letting him see the dog, but moving away _before_ he feels the need to step in, he's learning that he doesn't need to behave that way because I will sort the situation out for us, and he can relax.

It seems to be the most effective method I've tried so far, and I've tried them all! We now don't always get a reaction from a dog, and if we do, it is far easier to distract him than it ever used to be. 
I used this method as a 'worth a try' thing, not expecting it to be much cop, but it really is showing results for us, for whatever reason. 
Over time, I hope to build up the distance he can be to other dogs more and more, until we can pass by one without the problem. Will take months, no doubt, but at least Im finally seeing results after many months of trying methods that didn't seem to help 

I sadly don't have any 'doggy friends' with steady reliable dogs to take him out with to get him practised at being around leashed dogs. I have to just use what appears while on our walks, sadly.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Of course it is bad manners. As far as anyone walking by is concerned the dog is showing bad manners. There has been no apology or explanation, all the other person sees is a bad mannered dog. If you would rather then I will say the owner has bad manners allowing their dog to exhibit such behaviour close to other people or if it happens by mistake then in not apologising and explaining.


Happily for me, most folk where I live don't seem to agree with you.

Even the people who don't have dogs seem to have sufficient intelligence to recognise that I have a dog who is nervous or who is reacting *to* something. I guess they see the headcollar, see us doing the 'watch me', and realise that no - I don't have a dog with 'bad manners' and I myself don't have 'bad manners'.

Rather, my dog is expressing his unease and I am trying to help him through it.

POLL - has anyone here actually EVER heard ANYONE exclaim:* 'What a bad mannered dog!' *while walking past a barking or excited dog......?

I certainly never have heard anyone say this......


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> POLL - has anyone here actually EVER heard ANYONE exclaim:* 'What a bad mannered dog!' *while walking past a barking or excited dog......?
> 
> I certainly never have heard anyone say this......


No, but I'm sure that's what the 'tutters' and 'oh dearers' are thinking.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Shadowrat said:


> At the moment, we use the method of letting him see the other dog first. I have about 3 or 4 seconds from him clocking the dog to him barking, so what I do is let him see the dog, but turn and walk away BEFORE he reacts, giving lots of praise and treats.
> This seems to be the method that is working best for us, in all we've done. With him, its a touch of anxiety, too, in that he feels trapped on lead and a bit vulnerable. So he barks partly as a defensive thing. So by me taking control and letting him see the dog, but moving away _before_ he feels the need to step in, he's learning that he doesn't need to behave that way because I will sort the situation out for us, and he can relax.
> 
> It seems to be the most effective method I've tried so far, and I've tried them all! We now don't always get a reaction from a dog, and if we do, it is far easier to distract him than it ever used to be.
> ...


Have you tried talking to other people you see frequently on walks to see if you can walk with them? Just a suggestion but he may feel more confident with other calm dogs around and if your place is anything like mine you get to see some of the same characters at similar places etc. May help boost him and would be interesting to see how he acts when with other dog/s all on lead. Some People in my neighbourhood have been fundamental to helping my dog settle- I didn't really know anyone with a dog around here when we got him and most are very willing to help and understand that barking doesn't necessarily equal aggression etc. Just a thought.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Julesky said:


> Have you tried talking to other people you see frequently on walks to see if you can walk with them? Just a suggestion but he may feel more confident with other calm dogs around and if your place is anything like mine you get to see some of the same characters at similar places etc. May help boost him and would be interesting to see how he acts when with other dog/s all on lead. Some People in my neighbourhood have been fundamental to helping my dog settle- I didn't really know anyone with a dog around here when we got him and most are very willing to help and understand that barking doesn't necessarily equal aggression etc. Just a thought.


Second this; I approached people to walk with, felt like a loon but people were helpful and I have even made a good friend out of it!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Happily for me, most folk where I live don't seem to agree with you.
> 
> Even the people who don't have dogs seem to have sufficient intelligence to recognise that I have a dog who is nervous or who is reacting *to* something. I guess they see the headcollar, see us doing the 'watch me', and realise that no - I don't have a dog with 'bad manners' and I myself don't have 'bad manners'.
> 
> ...


I did have an ill mannered human saying I was rude for not apologising for Molly barking and lungeing. I was more involved with my dog because, like Shadowrat says (good for you Shadowrat) that was the critical thing not the human. I did seek out the woman in the park when I had dealt with Molly and put her in the car to explain and found, not surprisingly that she has no idea about lead reactive dogs and assumed that my dog on her lead was uncontrollable. From my point of view making judgements and swearing at me was worse 

OP, you say on another thread about watch me and you will know from that how so many of us practise this. Shadowrat is right, we work so damm hard as owners of lead reactive dogs, it's way to easy to forget or not appreciate how hard it is to deal with sudden situations in real life.

I have been in tears over her lead manners, so if I didn't say sorry so what. Get over it. Any dog owner with an awareness of dog problems would recognise this problem and move on.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Dogless said:


> Second this; I approached people to walk with, felt like a loon but people were helpful and I have even made a good friend out of it!


hahaha me too! One word of warning- try your absolute best to commit owner's name and appearance to memory... or you look like a tool when you blank them if they're out without their dog.

much ruder than not saying sorry


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

They may not react to him then and there but he may be passing the issue onto them.

I would suggest avoiding dogs tbh.

We had a dog who hated walks and seeing other dogs. No barking reactions or growls, he would just freeze and shake or run for the hills home.

We didnt take him out on walks and instead kept hom as a garden and home dog. It suited him fine as our gardens was huge and all different parts with woods and grass and things. He was happy andcontent instead of being scared.

When we moved and downsized our garden he started to go for walks and he was fine as a long break away from the problem took it aeay.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> *They may not react to him then and there but he may be passing the issue obto them.*
> 
> I would suggest avoiding dogs tbh.
> 
> ...


I don't really believe that- unless it's true aggression being pointed in a dog's face, most can tell an excited bark, frustrated bark etc. Dogs react to dogs way better than owners react to owners.... Bet all our dogs would have a right old bit** about how reactive we all were if they could read and type


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Julesky said:


> hahaha me too! One word of warning- try your absolute best to commit owner's name and appearance to memory... or you look like a tool when you blank them if they're out without their dog.
> 
> much ruder than not saying sorry


I do like the idea of teaming up. I met a lovely friend through Another Dog Website   and she helped a lot using her fab dog Ty who is in some photos on my albums. If Molly's calm phase is a new start and she carries on like this I'd happily do this. Great idea


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Julesky said:


> I don't really believe that- unless it's true aggression being pointed in a dog's face, most can tell an excited bark, frustrated bark etc. Dogs react to dogs way better than owners react to owners.... Bet all our dogs would have a right old bit** about how reactive we all were if they could read and type


Agree (again!) I think that hiding away doesn't help the dog at all. Molly has worked with several stooge dogs with the owners permission and none have reported any problems at all. In fact off lead they are all great friends and Molly has been able to teach those dogs things too.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> I do like the idea of teaming up. I met a lovely friend through Another Dog Website   and she helped a lot using her fab dog Ty who is in some photos on my albums. If Molly's calm phase is a new start and she carries on like this I'd happily do this. Great idea


Give it time, I found if the other person is up for it and your dog will calm once moving, with a little encouragement- go for it! Read the dogs body language- no point forcing the issue if they both look uneasy with each other. But if the other looks seriously unaffected by your dog then chat away- you may get some great chat from the owner or some dodgy tips  or just general dog chat or a moan about other dog owners 

Good luck!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> Agree (again!) I think that hiding away doesn't help the dog at all. Molly has worked with several stooge dogs with the owners permission and none have reported any problems at all. In fact off lead they are all great friends and Molly has been able to teach those dogs things too.


I've never been so agreeable


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Have you tried talking to other people you see frequently on walks to see if you can walk with them? Just a suggestion but he may feel more confident with other calm dogs around and if your place is anything like mine you get to see some of the same characters at similar places etc. May help boost him and would be interesting to see how he acts when with other dog/s all on lead. Some People in my neighbourhood have been fundamental to helping my dog settle- I didn't really know anyone with a dog around here when we got him and most are very willing to help and understand that barking doesn't necessarily equal aggression etc. Just a thought.


Ditto this. Last summer we met a lady with a small springer in our village. Her dog was very reactive on lead- we used to cross paths most mornings in soapy half asleep states. We got speaking one morning (after she apologised for ruining our peace once again ) and she asked of I minded if she join us on our walk?

Of course I didn't.

We met each morning at 6am for quite a few weeks- done her dog the world of good, was great company at 6am and they can now play off lead lovely. (The Springer had never been off lead with another dog previously).

All as a consequence of good manners


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> Ditto this. Last summer we met a lady with a small springer in our village. Her dog was very reactive on lead- we used to cross paths most mornings in soapy half asleep states. We got speaking one morning (after she apologised for ruining our peace once again ) and she asked of I minded if she join us on our walk?
> 
> Of course I didn't.
> 
> ...


Good moral there


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Julesky said:


> I don't really believe that- unless it's true aggression being pointed in a dog's face, most can tell an excited bark, frustrated bark etc. Dogs react to dogs way better than owners react to owners.... Bet all our dogs would have a right old bit** about how reactive we all were if they could read and type


Maybe. But with some dogs it is hard to tell the intention of the reaction. Even shadowrat said she couldn't tell. I suppose it depends on a lot of variables.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Maybe. But with some dogs it is hard to tell the intention of the reaction. Even shadowrat said she couldn't tell. I suppose it depends on a lot of variables.


Yes, but I'm sure other dogs can tell.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Dogless said:


> No, but I'm sure that's what the 'tutters' and 'oh dearers' are thinking.


Indeed. I've not had anyone comment on my "bad mannered" dog, just on my "vicious" dog, my "out of control" dog and plenty making remarks of "oh I wouldn't let my dog get away with that".

Spencer can be barky out of frustration when he can't greet another dog. He's tons better now but it's only since he's started getting regular interaction with other dogs that he's more or less stopped spinning, screeching and lunging whenever he sees one. He does still have the odd moment though.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dogless said:


> Yes, but I'm sure other dogs can tell.


Maybe. It is still may be intimidating to a young puppy though. I also think some dogs read dogs better then others.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Maybe. It is still may be intimidating to a young puppy though. I also think some dogs read dogs better then others.


Probably, but puppies need to see behaviours to deal with them and I would certainly think a puppy would look to it's owner if unsure to see what to make of it- dogs are dogs, most get each other better than we ever will.

Young or inexperienced dogs may not understand the other's behaviour and so that is why it's necessary for us to step in and assure them- and indeed is the crux of this very thread- yeah we should say sorry, but we should also be dealing with our dogs (our responsibility and priority) to make sure they look to us to see how to behave and thus prevent other situations


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> Maybe. It is still may be intimidating to a young puppy though. I also think some dogs read dogs better then others.


But how will saying sorry do anything to change that? The dog isn't going to understand me stopping to apologise and explain just why my dog is reacting. Might make the owner feel a bit more kindly towards me but won't change a thing for their dog.


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## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

I usually apologise beforehand.

Craven does sometimes bark at dogs we meet on lead,but not all dogs.

He doesn't bark at small dogs,he doesn't bark at every dog.

But most medium to large dogs he will bark at if they are not allowed or don't want to say hello.

If they come and say hello he's fine.

So what I usually do is step off the path a couple of feet if I can,get them both to sit and try and get Cravens attention,but I warn the owner that he may bark.

There are certain dogs that I know Craven will bark at,Collies being one of them,so in those situations I take them further away from the path.

There is a certain distance,about 5 feet away that he doesn't react at all.

He's getting a lot better and on a headcollar he doesn't bark,I'm still working on him without the headcollar.

But if he does bark I do always try to apologise.

Luckily Flint doesn't bark,but he does start squeaking when he wants to go and say hello and he can't.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm not even sure what is being argued about on here - I've tried to follow but I'm lost.

Options for arguments to have;

1. Should someone apologise if their dog is reactive towards another dog?
2. Should someone apologise if their dog is reactive towards a person/child/wombat?
3. Should reactive dogs exist?
4. Should reactive dogs be allowed out of the house?

Tackle each point in turn please - I can't keep up.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Werehorse said:


> I'm not even sure what is being argued about on here - I've tried to follow but I'm lost.
> 
> Options for arguments to have;
> 
> ...


It's the bloomin wombat- critters with attitude


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Werehorse said:


> I'm not even sure what is being argued about on here - I've tried to follow but I'm lost.
> 
> Options for arguments to have;
> 
> ...


1. Some people say yes, some say it shouldn't matter.
2. General concensus is yes, they should apologize if their dog kicks off at a person.
3. Not according to some.
4. Not according to some.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

When did we all turn into Miss Manners? 
Get a life, offended peeps. Please. 
It`s like Jane Austen Country on this thread. :ihih:


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Dogless said:


> No, but I'm sure that's what the 'tutters' and 'oh dearers' are thinking.


We really don't seem to encounter these very often at all. I can only think of one, actually - and that was, ironically, a woman I *did* apologise to.

The apology did not prevent the tutting.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> When did we all turn into Miss Manners?
> Get a life, offended peeps. Please.
> It`s like Jane Austen Country on this thread. :ihih:


If I was offended by every dog barking at mine I would spend my life being offended!!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> We really don't seem to encounter these very often at all. I can only think of one, actually - and that was, ironically, a woman I *did* apologise to.
> 
> The apology did not prevent the tutting.


Lucky you! .


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Shadowrat said:


> I was going to say......Im SURE I heard the Blitz rarely walks their dogs........glad I didn't just make that up. Not really sure what makes them think they're qualified to judge, in that case.......
> 
> But yes, when you live in a busy city where walks on lead involve going around town and housing estates and streets, surrounded by people and often other dogs, it is VASTLY different to if you have the luxury of having a lot of land of your own, or live in a quiet, rural area where you can avoid other dogs much more easily. If only. How lovely would that be.
> 
> ...


Repped. :thumbup:



Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Happily for me, most folk where I live don't seem to agree with you.
> 
> Even the people who don't have dogs seem to have sufficient intelligence to recognise that I have a dog who is nervous or who is reacting *to* something. I guess they see the headcollar, see us doing the 'watch me', and realise that no - I don't have a dog with 'bad manners' and I myself don't have 'bad manners'.
> 
> ...


Nope. Max has been called "vicious" "temperamental" "aggressive" etc, but never "bad mannered". And when he's been called vicious/aggressive, it's ALWAYS (conveniently ) been the other dog that started him off, by getting right in his face. 

And I ask again (seeing as no one has responded the first time round) if you see a dog and/or a cat without its owner, your dog barks/reacts at it, would you purposefully seek out the owner to apologise?

Because if not, you're not apologising for the way your dog makes another animal feel at all - you're apologising for the way your dog makes the _human _feel. Which is fine, but can we at least accept this and stop saying we're apologising for a dog's feelings - yours or theirs.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> They may not react to him then and there but he may be passing the issue onto them.
> 
> I would suggest avoiding dogs tbh.
> 
> ...


As I've said lots of times, I do my utmost to avoid other dogs. I walk in early morning and late evening if I can, when less dogs will be around, I take routes where I tend to see less dogs, I take a detour if I see a dog coming that I'll have to walk right past, I do all I can to 'manage' the situation.

BUT.....I live in a city. And I do not drive.
Therefore, if I don't have someone to drive me to the park or woods for Dres to go offlead, he must be walked on lead around the town, meaning lots of people and other dogs. It is that, or nothing. I don't always have a lot of choice. And I cannot always guarantee I'll be able to avoid other dogs, thats impossible. Sometimes they come out of alleys, round corners, or out of houses as I pass, out of my control. In those situations, I use them as training opportunities.

So really, I am already doing all I can given my situation. It would be nice to be in a situation where I had a lot of land so he could exercise sufficiently at home some days of the week, or I lived in a quieter area with less people and more predictable 'dog encounters'. But it is what it is, small house with small garden in the city. And you can't have a 15 month old dobermann as a house dog 

Part of the reason I got a dog was to go for nice, long walks. And I will continue to do so. In my mind, as long as Im controlling the situation as much as I can, and working on the issue, no-one can really ask anything else of me. Unless they just expect me to hole my dog up at home forever just because he barks. Which is.....well.....obviously ridiculous.


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

Shadowrat said:


> As I've said lots of times, I do my utmost to avoid other dogs. I walk in early morning and late evening if I can, when less dogs will be around, I take routes where I tend to see less dogs, I take a detour if I see a dog coming that I'll have to walk right past, I do all I can to 'manage' the situation.
> 
> BUT.....I live in a city. And I do not drive.
> Therefore, if I don't have someone to drive me to the park or woods for Dres to go offlead, he must be walked on lead around the town, meaning lots of people and other dogs. It is that, or nothing. I don't always have a lot of choice. And I cannot always guarantee I'll be able to avoid other dogs, thats impossible. Sometimes they come out of alleys, round corners, or out of houses as I pass, out of my control. In those situations, I use them as training opportunities.
> ...


In my eyes...YOU are doing SO well!! and trying to be so responsible!! hats off to you!!


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

All really depends on situation! this is a recent walk of mine.....young fellow with a dog,he is on a methadone programme.walks his dog religiously ,he shouts at dog,dog barks back,anyway for months he had his dog on leish,now his dogs off leash and chewing hell outa a ball,he spots my 2,comes bounding over..whatever reason my sighted girl lucy goes for him...keeps trying to bite him.i think shes protecting molly.he,s not agressive.she is.the owner eventually catches up. i apologise! feel this boys trying.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I was in the same boat Shadowrat. Lived in the city, can't drive, reactive dog. There's really only so much you can do. As long as the dog is under control and not able to do more than make some noise I don't see what the big deal is. 

We ran into about 20 reactive dogs the other day on our walk. Spencer wasn't at all bothered by the fact he was being barked and snarled at from across the street, he behaved exactly the same way as he does to dogs who don't react. Shadow and Wolf never bothered either, they might glance over but that was it. Rupert did react worse to barking dogs but I always saw that as MY problem, not the other owners problem.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> I was in the same boat Shadowrat. Lived in the city, can't drive, reactive dog.


I'm currently in the same situation. I make the best of it. The alternatives - lock her up and never take her out in public again. I'm sure that would really help matters. _Or_ - does anyone here who is lucky enough to live in an isolated rural idyll want a dog aggressive GSD with hip and elbow dysplasia? FTGH. I'm sure you could fix her in no time.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

picaresque said:


> I'm currently in the same situation. I make the best of it. The alternatives - lock her up and never take her out in public again. I'm sure that would really help matters. _Or_ - *does anyone here who is lucky enough to live in an isolated rural idyll want a dog aggressive GSD with hip and elbow dysplasia?* FTGH. I'm sure you could fix her in no time.


Blitz maybe? although she won't get walked, so perhaps she is better off with you.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I for one am a bit bored of this thread now. I hope to the high heavens that a few people who commented on here never have one of these god damned awful reactive dogs thrust upon them. However as Blitz said on one of the pages - she'd just have it pts like they did in the "good old days". 

I've learned a few things though. 

- Someone would rather see a person apologise and then tell their dog off; be that just verbally or otherwise; the person did not comment on that. Well for every time I've shouted at Benjie in the early days to shut up when he was barking - it didn't work - HE CANNOT SPEAK OR UNDERSTAND ENGLISH! HE'S A DOG. I can shout at my dog for not being able to retrieve but unless I teach him - then I'm screwed. 

- Apparently my manners are put into question when I have a dog that barks at another dog/person. Sorry (thats the only apology you'll get) but if my dogs bark at you or your dog - you're either too close and my dog is un nerved by you or your dog is eyeballing mine. 

- Some people would rather you apologised then dealt with your dog. Like others have said - this would mean spending more time around the thing the dog is kicking off at.. even that split second counts. 


We were at a game fair yesterday. A lot of dogs barked at a lot of other dogs - I didn't hear a single Sorry uttered and guess what no one seemed upset, it didn't seem to ruin their day. If a dog barking at you upsets you - perhaps owning a cat would be easier - then you wouldn't have to be out where all these dogs can bark at you. Had the OP said that the dog had attacked her dog then yes I can see why. But it had simply barked. 

And if the dog is scared of dogs barking - then you should be using a dog barking as an exercise IMO. Dogs can't get used to things they aren't exposed to. 

Pen was scared of the guns yesterday, I simply cuddled her and gave her some cheese everytime one went off - it took about an hour for her to settle, but she didn't shut down and cheered up when we had a game of fetch. 

Oh to have well behaved dogs that did everything I asked of them and were perfect. How boring they would be too!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

labradrk said:


> Blitz maybe? although she won't get walked, so perhaps she is better off with you.


Sometimes I wonder what people read and talk about. I am wondering whether to put this in capitals and shout it to the handful of people who make snide comments.

My dogs go out at about 7.30 for half an hour or so while I am doing horses and cattle. They come in and have their breakfast and a kip then are out in the yard for about an hour while stables are done. Usually they will then get 6 miles or so of fast roadwork if they choose to (Candy often sits up on the carriage for at least half) behind the ponies while we are out driving. They get a good run in a field in the afternoon and then are out while I do horses again later on. They then get 20 minutes last thing at night checking cattle and horses. If the weather is bad and we have not driven ponies for a day or so then they get a walk by the beach but it is very unusual to meet anyone when we are there. oh, and the girls that come riding usually bring dogs with them so all the dogs play.

So no, my dogs seldom go on a formal walk but I would say they have a fairly well stimulated life with a great deal of exercise.

Also I think it was Shadowrat who stated I should not be commenting on this thread. Shadowrat - how long have you had a dog. A year or so. 
For the first 30 years of my life I lived in an urban or semi rural environment and from the age of 14 was fully responsible for walking dogs. For many years I walked my dogs 4 times a day on walks that included pavement and parks so it is just possible that I know something about it. 
During this time and for many years after I moved here I was involved in running dog training classes and competing in obedience. I also worked as a veterinary nurse where we were frequently putting dogs to sleep for antisocial behaviour problems.

So are you happy now for me to have an opinion and to be surprised that so many people have dogs that behave so badly when out and about.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Sometimes I wonder what people read and talk about. I am wondering whether to put this in capitals and shout it to the handful of people who make snide comments.
> 
> My dogs go out at about 7.30 for half an hour or so while I am doing horses and cattle. They come in and have their breakfast and a kip then are out in the yard for about an hour while stables are done. Usually they will then get 6 miles or so of fast roadwork if they choose to (Candy often sits up on the carriage for at least half) behind the ponies while we are out driving. They get a good run in a field in the afternoon and then are out while I do horses again later on. They then get 20 minutes last thing at night checking cattle and horses. If the weather is bad and we have not driven ponies for a day or so then they get a walk by the beach but it is very unusual to meet anyone when we are there. oh, and the girls that come riding usually bring dogs with them so all the dogs play.
> 
> ...


The bit in bold - shouldn't you be praising people who have stuck with their dogs and kept them alive instead of berating them because they haven't said sorry for their dog simply barking?

Just saying...


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2013)

*Putting my flame suit on*
I kind of agree with some of what Blitz is saying (though I did skip over the middle of this thread - kind of skimmed the front and end ).

First off, let me say that if I see anyone struggling with their dog, the last place I go in my mind is judgmental or critical. I have been there myself way too many times and I know how embarrassing and frustrating it is. If I can do anything to help the situation, get my dogs further away, make sure they don't look over and stare at the dog etc., you bet I will. Sorry doesn't even cross my mind. Though *I* am a compulsive apologizer, so you may find me apologizing to the other owner for my dog's mere existence setting theirs off! LOL!

However, I don't know about in the UK, but in the US we have a really large portion of the dog owning world who have rude dogs, who have researched enough to find a term for it - reactive, and who don't do anything about it beyond using the term as an excuse. "My dog is reactive." End of story. No attempt to better the situation or work on it. The rest of us are expected to give the dog a wide berth and adjust our behavior to the *reactive* dog who is often simply a rude, impulsive dog who hasn't been taught any differently. 

Or worse, the owner has some sort of investment in to having a "difficult" dog. Be it the small dog owner who thinks it's cute when his little dog attacks my big one, be it the idiot owner who thinks his GSD is being protective (and likes it) when his dog barks fearfully at mine, be it the rescue dog owner who wants everyone to know how difficult it has been to deal with a rescue dog and wants the accolades for dealing with the dog no one else could handle. 

I do know folks who have difficult dogs who have worked wonders with them, and it's great to see. A gal comes to mind, she has a dalmatian who had massive issues. He couldn't even walk in to the building without going bananas. Today he is able to be in the show ring with all the other dogs, behaving, and focusing on his owner. She seriously worked her behind off with that dog, and massive kudos to her for how far he has come. Another gal has a northern breed who is also really scary when he goes off. She too has put in tremendous work with him and she just recently got her third rally title with him. Amazing. 

But sadly, IME these kind of owners - the ones who actively help their dogs overcome real issues, tend to be in the minority. Not on this forum obviously, but out in the real world. So yeah, I can definitely understand the frustration of folks who are on the receiving end of "reactive" behavior.

Sometimes it feels like terms become popular and then overused and misused. 
Like the dog who gets in to the trash while the owner is gone gets labeled as having separation anxiety. Uh, no, your dog is a normal dog who scavenged to entertain himself while he was gone. Or the rescue who air snaps when a rude dog gets in his face gets labeled fearful. Uh, no, he's a normal dog reacting normally to rude dog behavior. 

I'm not big on labels anyway, but I'm really starting to dislike the term "reactive" and "dino" etc. Dogs are dogs are dogs. Some need more space than others, some have different triggers than others, some have different thresholds than others, but in the end they're all dogs and they behave like dogs. To me a dog barking in frustration at the end of a taught leash is pretty much normal dog behavior. Not acceptable obviously, but not abnormal either.
Deal with it and move on...


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

A little muse...

Dog A and Dog B approach, on lead. 
Dog A bristles. 
Dog B turns head and lick lips. 
Dog A and B are forced closer because owners are oblivious. 
Dog A eyeballs Dog B
Dog B is getting seriously worried and eyes widen. 
Dog A sees his chance to sort the beggar and pulls forward (owner gushing `he wants to say hello). 
Dog B panics, can`t run away and barks frantically at the other dog. 

Who apologises?


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> A little muse...
> 
> Dog A and Dog B approach, on lead.
> Dog A bristles.
> ...


B would probably- although it is A's fault in the main. Owners really should be more clued up on doggy body language IMO


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> A little muse...
> 
> Dog A and Dog B approach, on lead.
> Dog A bristles.
> ...


Owner B apologises to dog B


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

ouesi said:


> *Putting my flame suit on*
> I kind of agree with some of what Blitz is saying (though I did skip over the middle of this thread - kind of skimmed the front and end ).
> 
> First off, let me say that if I see anyone struggling with their dog, the last place I go in my mind is judgmental or critical. I have been there myself way too many times and I know how embarrassing and frustrating it is. If I can do anything to help the situation, get my dogs further away, make sure they don't look over and stare at the dog etc., you bet I will. Sorry doesn't even cross my mind. Though *I* am a compulsive apologizer, so you may find me apologizing to the other owner for my dog's mere existence setting theirs off! LOL!
> ...


Although I understand what you say re labels, I have to admit it was a huge relief for me when I realised that there was a term for Dex's behaviour, i.e. 'reactive'

I was at a total loss to understand why he was lunging and barking and kicking off. The sheer number of things which triggered this behaviour was - to me- baffling.

Then, while researching online, I found an article describing reactive dogs - when I read it I almost wept with relief! Finally, I understood what was happening and more crucially, this led to me getting help with alleviating the reactivity.

Now, that being said, I agree with you that no dog owner should simply label their dog and then use that as an excuse for *not* working on the behaviour and doing the vital training.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

It's very British isn't it, to apologise? I think manners cost nothing but ultimately when I am faced with a situation (one of very many and how on earth is one thread meant to solve or discuss every permutation ) I concentrate on my dog. 'Please' and 'thank you' are good manners, sorry is just a word that is overused.

I agree SLB, I'm very bored of this thread. As you mentioned and correctly so, every second counts when you have a dog that doesn't like a lead or has a problem with dogs. Any dog owner who cares understand that. They would also understand that no lead reactive dog and owner go out to deliberately wind up others dogs. Mostly we avoid them and when we do see them, *we're way to busy doing the right thing by our dog to avoid having future problems where we might have to apologise*! How hard is that to understand?!?!?

Who am I apologising to anyway? The other dog doesn't care unless it speaks English and the other owner ought to understand.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Although I understand what you say re labels, I have to admit it was a huge relief for me when I realised that there was a term for Dex's behaviour, i.e. 'reactive'
> 
> I was at a total loss to understand why he was lunging and barking and kicking off. The sheer number of things which triggered this behaviour was - to me- baffling.
> 
> ...


Oh me too. Hate those words. Molly just wants to play, it's frustration at me really and the lead not the other dog. I know if I let her off she'd be perfectly well mannered and usually licks the other dogs faces and play bows. So it's very hurtful to get idiots like the awful woman I mentioned thinking she is violent. Reactive makes it feel a lot worse. Lead Sensitive is the term my trainer and I use


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Sometimes I wonder what people read and talk about. I am wondering whether to put this in capitals and shout it to the handful of people who make snide comments.


Because you goaded them in multiple threads.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

diefenbaker said:


> Owner B apologises to dog B


Yup! ........................


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Yup! ........................


OMG I got one right. To be fair I studied hard all night and drank lots of red bull. When can I expect my certificate ? And do I now get letters after my name ?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

diefenbaker said:


> Because you goaded them in multiple threads.


rubbish. I happen to not agree with what a handful of people are saying. I am entitled to my opinion. I am not entitled to be rude and I have not been rude.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Haven't read the whole thread .

I absolutely call out sorry *once* i have put a little distance between us or settled my dog *IF* i am responsible.. if i make it obvious i do no want my dog to interact with yours and you dash toward us or your dog is staring and posturing... I'm afraid I don't.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Blitz said:


> rubbish. I happen to not agree with what a handful of people are saying. I am entitled to my opinion. I am not entitled to be rude and I have not been rude.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's how you express your opinion. If people are having issues with their dog and you decide to write:



Blitz said:


> I am totally astounded by the number of people on here who seem to think it perfectly ok to have a bad mannered dog that is going to upset other people and give dogs a bad name because it was a rescue or it had a fright as a puppy or whatever. Train them, it cannot possibly be that difficult to train or control a dog can it.


exactly what kind of response are you trying to ellicit ? It would be pointless asking you whether you think this is rude. Obviously you do not.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Ive found with my 2 I step them to one side and if they start barking I normally chuckle to the other dog walker " I was waiting for that!" A smile and some humour goes a long way owning a reactive dog! 

Normally they chuckle back and because Ive made light of it and relaxed, my 2 calm down too. I say "Oh shuddap you two" in a joke way and it works...if only for a little while!


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## loukodi (Oct 27, 2010)

Kodi isn't the best around other dogs, so yes sometimes he will bark (hes on lead). But im so busy getting him to calm down that's its not my top priority im afraid. If someone lets there dog come racing up barking and being a nuisance then yes a apology would be nice.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Just to note - 2 peoples dogs barked at us today - we were minding our own business - did I get offended - nope, did they say sorry, nope. I carried on with my walk and they were nothing but a distant memory.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I have the answer to this 'problem' 

I shall order a large number of white t-shirts, in various sizes. On these, will be printed in big, bold letters: *'SORRY'.*

We can then all wear them while we walk our dogs!

There. Problem solved.

:lol::lol::lol:


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's how you express your opinion. If people are having issues with their dog and you decide to write:
> 
> exactly what kind of response are you trying to ellicit ? It would be pointless asking you whether you think this is rude. Obviously you do not.


Totally agree, it is an awful attitude and one that totally undermines those who have this problem with their dogs. Those who are rude usually fall back on the classic "I am entitled to my opinion" line. Yes, you are entitled to an opinion but try expressing that opinion tactfully rather than suggest that people with reactive dogs are untrained/bad mannered/out of control/give all dogs owners a bad name.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

diefenbaker said:


> OMG I got one right. To be fair I studied hard all night and drank lots of red bull. When can I expect my certificate ? And do I now get letters after my name ?


Congratulations on passing the Pre-Course Test. 
To continue simply send your bank details, mothers maiden name and inside leg measurement to me.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Congratulations on passing the Pre-Course Test.
> To continue simply send your bank details, mothers maiden name and inside leg measurement to me.


You've all let me down. I give you a great lead in like "letters after my name" and don't get one decent reply.. not even a pervy one. You're all comically dead to me.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> You've all let me down. I give you a great lead in like "letters after my name" and don't get one decent reply.. not even a pervy one. You're all comically dead to me.


It was pre-watershed.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Actually- it still is.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Actually- it still is.


You're in Scotland. That's GMT +2. Post pervyness NOW!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

See other thread


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## Haley 80 (Mar 11, 2013)

I don't think I would expect an apology if I can see the owner working to try and correct the behavior, but maybe I would from the owners who just ignores the behavior and walk past. But what I don't find acceptable is to be shouted at when their dog lunged at mine! 

Tonight we where walking and come to a pedestrian crossing where a greyhound was also waiting, I seen he was quite focused on my little Yorkie so stood back a little to give him space but kept watching. The owner had him close to her on a long line but wasn't paying attention to him, next minute he lunged and broke free from his owner and came running at us, I reacted and lifted my dog up and she yelled at me! Now I know picking a dog up makes it instantly more interesting but she had no control and no recall so there was no way I was waiting for her to take control of the situation. I was so angry at her her making me feel like it was somehow my fault. The dog was already free when I picked mine up grrr.


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

Pupcakes said:


> Ive found with my 2 I step them to one side and if they start barking I normally chuckle to the other dog walker " I was waiting for that!" A smile and some humour goes a long way owning a reactive dog!
> 
> Normally they chuckle back and because Ive made light of it and relaxed, my 2 calm down too. I say "Oh shuddap you two" in a joke way and it works...if only for a little while!


Honestly, that would annoy me tremendously. I don't mind dogs barking, but if you expect your dogs to start barking I would expect you to try to prevent it, to work with your dogs to make them stay quiet. I don't mind if people fail and their dogs start to bark, but I hate it when people just shrug and don't make an effort to make their dogs behave.

I have an understanding for people with reactive dogs as I have one myself and I know that it's not easy to train, but I have no understanding whatsoever for people who don't even bother to try to train them. And making jokes about it makes me even more annoyed.

As I said before, I'd much rather that people focused on their dogs instead of making apologies and that goes for making jokes as well.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Also I think it was Shadowrat who stated I should not be commenting on this thread. Shadowrat - how long have you had a dog. A year or so.


How many reactive dogs have you owned?
I may have only owned one dog of my own, but I can bet you anything you like I have more experience with a reactive dog than you. 
(Added to which, I have only owned my OWN dog for just over a year, but have worked with dogs in rescue, and a vet setting, for all my adult life.....)

That was my point. 
Not that you shouldn't talk about dogs, but that you shouldn't speak as if you are an authority on _reactive_ dogs when, from what I can see, you've never owned one, never worked with one, probably never spent the hours and hours training one.
When you have, then perhaps I'll value your input on the subject of reactivity.

Until then, all you're doing is judging, and spewing ignorance. Im sorry, but your comments REALLY show that you know nothing about reactivity. So thusly, probably shouldn't talk about it like you do.........

But whatever, I should really go book Dresden in to be put to sleep for his awful behavioural problem of barking.
Anyone would think he was a damn DOG!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Vicki said:


> *Honestly, that would annoy me tremendously. I don't mind dogs barking, but if you expect your dogs to start barking I would expect you to try to prevent it, to work with your dogs to make them stay quiet.* I don't mind if people fail and their dogs start to bark, but I hate it when people just shrug and don't make an effort to make their dogs behave.
> 
> I have an understanding for people with reactive dogs as I have one myself and I know that it's not easy to train, but I have no understanding whatsoever for people who don't even bother to try to train them. And making jokes about it makes me even more annoyed.
> 
> As I said before, I'd much rather that people focused on their dogs instead of making apologies and that goes for making jokes as well.


TBF, Pupcakes did say she takes the dogs to one side.  I read that as giving Dottie and Charlie more space and using humour to diffuse the situation.  I tuck Max behind me and stand in front of him if Max's attention is already on the other dog and there's no time/space to move away. For street walking, it works better than Watch Me because there's a physical barrier (me and/or Milly) between Max and the oncoming dog).

For some dogs, just having somewhere to go does actually help.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Shadowrat said:


> How many reactive dogs have you owned?
> I may have only owned one dog of my own, but I can bet you anything you like I have more experience with a reactive dog than you.
> (Added to which, I have only owned my OWN dog for just over a year, but have worked with dogs in rescue, and a vet setting, for all my adult life.....)
> 
> ...


I have actually worked successfully with other people's dogs so have got some experience but that is not the point is it .

People are saying that they get tutted at, get told their dog is vicious etc so it is the perception of the dog that is the point as far as I am concerned.
I am another that hates labels and the word reactivity puts my back up. Every dog has a different reason as to why it might be tense around other dogs. I have one that is frightened of other dogs after an attack, she cowers and tries to get away. The other one, as I said, is a thug and would like to greet every dog. One sort of behaviour only affects me and my dog, the other affects other people so has to be stopped. It would never cross my mind not to apologise if my dog interferes with another. You can make a lot of friends that way too, if you stop and explain you can usually have a chat and give your dog a little training session at the same time.
I think a lot of the problem is whether you actually LIKE other people and like interacting with them but for the sake of dogs all over the country I personally think it is important to try and put over a good attitude to other people when you dog misbehaves (whether or not you can see a reason that makes you think it is not misbehaving or being bad mannered it will seem that way to everyone else in the vicinity)

I have certainly not said anything in this thread about how to train a dog with this problem. That is a totally different subject and not something to go into here - this thread is surely about how you handle your intereaction with the other person when your dog has done something that will appear antisocial in the eyes of other people.

Interesting how often people come on here and complain about how other peoples dogs have behaved. Could be that that owners feel that their dogs behaviour has a root cause and that it does not impact on others. It is all relative I suppose.

Not really worth me saying any more as a handful on here will take it as a personal insult and accuse me of knowing nothing.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Blitz said:


> I have actually worked successfully with other people's dogs so have got some experience but that is not the point is it .
> 
> People are saying that they get tutted at, get told their dog is vicious etc so *it is the perception of the dog that is the point as far as I am concerned.*
> I am another that hates labels and the word reactivity puts my back up. Every dog has a different reason as to why it might be tense around other dogs. I have one that is frightened of other dogs after an attack, she cowers and tries to get away. The other one, as I said, is a thug and would like to greet every dog. One sort of behaviour only affects me and my dog, the other affects other people so has to be stopped. It would never cross my mind not to apologise if my dog interferes with another. * You can make a lot of friends that way too, if you stop and explain you can usually have a chat and give your dog a little training session at the same time.*
> ...


The parts in bold:

That is it for me - the perception. People can't magically know why Kilo might bark or even be expecting it.

I have made a few friends / acquaintances this way. I'd say about 70 - 80% of people just blank me and act as if I don't exist which makes me feel like a prize idiot, a few just don't "get it" - "but my dog's friendly" - and some swear or say something obnoxious, but the remaining few either actively help or at least understand what the drama is and that I am working on it.

At least when I say sorry I know that I have tried, whatever the reaction of the other person. If I can't do it at the time as I'm too busy controlling Kilo I will talk to the person if I see them again at another time.


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## ch4r1ie (Feb 14, 2013)

My dog is termed as "reactive". He barks at every dog he see's. Very rarely humans, although the postman sometimes gets a talking to. I have had him since 8 weeks old, he wasn't "reactive" to begin with. It started after a few seperate occasions when moron's let their dogs run up to him and jump on him whilst he was still very young and on a lead. Whilst he barks at other dogs his hackles come up. It is like he is warning them to stay away. But he has never actually been aggressive. Off-lead he adores playing with other dogs.

Whether it's dog or human being barked at, I have always tried to apologise. Given how short I am, and I have my shoulder being pulled out of it's socket by my 33kg lump, it is not always easy to apologise whilst keeping him under control, but I do try. And it's a sincere apology. I am sorry for my dogs behaviour. It is embarrassing for me, and tends to ruin the walk. I have tried treats, walking the other way, sit and watch me, all sorts. To be quite honest I am unsure why treats don't work, as food is what he lives for  But if there is another dog around, everything else is ignored, including treats. I have tried toys instead, yet my 10 month old still barks at every other canine. I'm curious to know what the wonderful method of training is that will most certainly make my dog "mind his manners" is? If a little training is all it takes, then clearly what I have been doing for such a long time is not correct.

I have read on this thread people saying that my reactive dog may be causing other dogs to become reactive themselves. Can those who have this opinion please tell me what then, am I supposed to do with my dog? Am I to never walk him again for fear of him causing another dog mental scarring? Keep him cooped up in the house, where he will never see other dogs again, and so never even be given the chance to overcome this issue?


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I have actually worked successfully with other people's dogs so have got some experience but that is not the point is it .


It is kinda the point, when you're here implying people who have reactive dogs are somehow allowing them to be so, or not bothering to train them, which every owner of a reactive dog on this thread has said is not the case. We've all pretty much said we go to great lengths to manage or fix this problem, I don't see anyone saying 'oh well, I love that my dog is reactive! Its awesome! Why bother working on it? I can't be arsed!' 
Yet you still seem to sort of be implying that we have 'rude dogs' and should somehow be ashamed of them, and of ourselves.
To me, that implies you really don't realise what goes into having a reactive dog, and how long and hard the road to recovery can be.
If you did realise, if you had lived with a reactive dog for a year, you would not make such flippant remarks. 
That is the point.
Working with 'someone elses dog' is not the same as living 24/7 with your own dog.

But out of interest, how did you fix these dog's reactivity?



Blitz said:


> I am another that hates labels and the word reactivity puts my back up.


Why?
Its just a quicker, easier way of saying 'my dog tends to bark when he sees another on-lead dog on walks'. Do you also hate the terms 'food possessive', 'separation anxiety' and any other term that is used to describe a behaviour? 
I only tend to use the word 'reactive' around dog people who know what it means. With joe average, I just say 'he barks on lead'. Its easier than explaining what reactivity is. 
Honestly, there may be people who see a label and use it as an excuse not to bother fixing the problem, just like you get people who slap medical labels on themselves to excuse their own behaviour (ie, oh, Im allowed to act in a socially unacceptable way, I have bipolar!/anxiety!/autism!' whatever it might be, and I say that as a sufferer of two of those things) 
But generally, people who actually DO have these conditions do not do that; they work to try and fix them or manage them so they don't impact on others around them too much. The owners of reactive dogs, on this forum at least, seem to be stepping up to the plate very well and taking full responsibility for their dogs and trying their hardest to sort the problem.



Blitz said:


> One sort of behaviour only affects me and my dog, the other affects other people so has to be stopped.


Of course, which is why you will note that all of us with reactive dogs have spoken of how we work hard at this problem, how we alter our lives to manage our reactive dogs, how we go to lengths to avoid impacting on other people as best as we possibly can.
But reactivity is not an overnight fix. It can take months, years, to fix. I've yet to meet a behaviourist who claims this is a simple problem to sort out. They all acknowledge that it is one of the harder issues to deal with. 
I would love to 'fix' my barky dog in only a few training sessions, I'd be over the moon. But it isn't going to happen. So I keep slogging on, doing the best I can, and trying to make sure I impact on others as little as possible in the process. What else can one do?



Blitz said:


> It would never cross my mind not to apologise if my dog interferes with another. You can make a lot of friends that way too, if you stop and explain you can usually have a chat and give your dog a little training session at the same time.


I have done. I have actually rarely had a negative response to Dresden's reactivity, most dog owners seem to be quite unconcerned by it, a lot even smile and I have actually had 'chats' with owners in the street who don't care about his barking, nor does their dog. 
I also do apologise if I feel his barking has upset the owner, or their dog. 
But to be brutally honest, like others here who actually have reactive dogs, I am more concerned at the time with making Dresden feel comfortable and focusing on him. 
When you have a 40+ kilo dog getting wound up at the end of the lead, you don't always have the choice to stop for a casual chat and just ignore it, and obviously if I do ignore it, he is just being allowed to 'practise' that behaviour, and it does him no good at all.
I don't think people here are saying they don't apologise because they don't give a rat's ass, but more because sometimes they are more preoccupied with sorting out their dog, which is totally understandable. 
One of the things with reactivity in some cases is to 'break the cycle'. The more they are allowed to bark, the more it will become a habit and a learned behaviour, and the more it will occur. If Dresden goes 'woo woo' at a dog across the street, my priority is to quickly get his focus back on me, however I can, and stop that response.
It is hard to do that while also waving to someone across the street and having a chit chat.



Blitz said:


> I have certainly not said anything in this thread about how to train a dog with this problem. That is a totally different subject and not something to go into here - this thread is surely about how you handle your intereaction with the other person when your dog has done something that will appear antisocial in the eyes of other people.


But you did go on about how those of us with reactive dogs have 'rude' dogs, and made some silly flippant comment about 'how hard can it be to spend a few minutes training?!' (I think that was you) which implies you honestly don't 'get' what dealing with reactivity is about. 
It takes a LOT longer than 'a few minutes' and it is often not the fault of the owner that their dog behaves this way. But your posts seem to take the tone of 'well, I've never owned a reactive dog, therefore, it must be something all you people have done horribly wrong, and you probably don't even bother training your dogs!!' 
Thats how your posts come across: condescending, belittling, judgemental.
And you know, honestly, in a way I almost get it. Before I had Dresden, I'd probably think the same thing, but really.....once you've been there, you will change your view, trust me.
When you have spent the last year really working hard on a problem, every day, going to great lengths to manage it and avoid affecting those around you, when you've had to plan your walks meticulously before you go out just to try and avoid issues......it can be very irritating to see someone who has never owned a reactive dog typing away like they know all about the subject.
You don't. And so therefore, should not comment on how to fix it, how 'easy' it should be to fix, or how the owners should behave. 
Its probably easy to just wave your hand and say 'pfff, these owners are obviously inferior to me, if it were MY dog, I'd do such and such'. 
You really don't know until you have experienced it.

I'd give you Dresden, who isn't even a severely reactive dog remember, he's pretty mild on the reactivity scale, for a month or so and you can take him out on lead walks, and see what you would do differently, how you would cope with it, see how 'easily and quickly' you can fix the issue, I'd genuinely love to see what you would do with a barking 40 kilo dog on the end of your arm. 
You know, its interesting, because today I met another dobe owner at the park with Dres. Her dog and mine were playing about, and she mentioned how her dobe was lead reactive from about the same age as Dresden. She'd also worked on it a little (though not nearly as much as I have) with no results, so you know what she recently did?
Went and got a collar that vibrates. She put it on her dog, and within 2 weeks, she has stopped barking at other dogs on lead.

Now......I could do this. I could also go the route of a prong collar if I chose. I could even go the route of giving him a shock each time he barked at another dog. But I will NOT do that. 
It may fix the problem, but it would not fix it in the way I want to fix it. I don't just want to shut down the behaviour with a fear of reprimand, I want my dog to no longer feel that he NEEDS to bark at others. I want to change his mindset, not just punish him. 
And changing behaviours can be a long, long road, if you ever actually can change it.
Some reactive dogs may never be fixed. Sometimes, you can't fix a problem. 
I have anxiety, I've had counselling and medication, for years, with only tiny improvements. I am sure I will die an old woman with anxiety. It is just part of me, and I honestly don't think it can be 'cured'. It can only be managed. 
I do not see why the same cannot be true of dogs. And if it is, all you can do is manage the problem.



Blitz said:


> Not really worth me saying any more as a handful on here will take it as a personal insult and accuse me of knowing nothing.


Its because you word things in a way that is very accusing, judgemental and belittling to those of us who have worked so hard with our reactive dogs. 
When you have no idea what living with one is like, I really don't think you have the right to speak with such authority and certainty on what we, as owners, should and shouldn't do.
Take my dog for a while, or hell, even one of the dogs on here that is worse than him, then come back and I can assure you you will think differently.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I must really be an odd one because I always feel like I should be apologising to the owner of the reactive dog for my presence or my dogs presence causing their dog to react  Yet I wouldn't expect anyone to apologise to me simply for being there and my dog reacting to them.


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## Bagrat (Jun 4, 2012)

As I said earlier, I somehow find it difficult to get Jackson out of the situation and apologise properly ( usally shout "sorry he's spooked/scared by other dogs" or just concentrate on reducing his stress). I am very much a people person and this makes it even worse for me.
I think if you have a dog on whom you are concentrating most people cotton on, it's if you appear to be oblivious then not so good. It seems it's a bit like being annoyed at another driver, no communication as you are in separate cars means misunderstandings happen. Closer analogy, it's like trying to keep a post succinct on here and people taking it the wrong way.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> I must really be an odd one because I always feel like *I should be apologising to the owner of the reactive dog for my presence or my dogs presence causing their dog to react * Yet I wouldn't expect anyone to apologise to me simply for being there and my dog reacting to them.


Ha ha! That is exactly me! And I DO apologize! But I'm a compulsive apologizer, and hopeless people pleaser...



Shadowrat said:


> Its just a quicker, easier way of saying 'my dog tends to bark when he sees another on-lead dog on walks'. Do you also hate the terms 'food possessive', 'separation anxiety' and any other term that is used to describe a behaviour?
> I only tend to use the word 'reactive' around dog people who know what it means. With joe average, I just say 'he barks on lead'. Its easier than explaining what reactivity is.


I'm one that doesn't like labels for exactly this reason. To me a dog who barks here and there on lead isn't really a "reactive" dog. A dog who snarks after a fair warning was ignored is to me, not a reactive dog.
I think the term reactive has become too broad and is now being used to include normal and appropriate dog behaviors. 
To me, reactivity is an OVER reaction or inappropriate reaction to things any normal alive dog would react to. ALL dogs react don't they?



Shadowrat said:


> But reactivity is not an overnight fix. It can take months, years, to fix. I've yet to meet a behaviourist who claims this is a simple problem to sort out. They all acknowledge that it is one of the harder issues to deal with.
> I would love to 'fix' my barky dog in only a few training sessions, I'd be over the moon. But it isn't going to happen. So I keep slogging on, doing the best I can, and trying to make sure I impact on others as little as possible in the process. What else can one do?


No, it's not necessarily an easy fix (though honestly, sometimes inappropriate behavior can be sorted very simply and quickly), but it's not rocket science either. If you've been working on the same thing for months with little or no improvement, to me that's a sign that you need to change something.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

What is so sad in this whole thread is that it takes until page 18 for someone to suggest you offer to help or talk to the owner of the reactive dog.

As the owner of the reactive dog if its possible say sorry. If you are too busy working with the dog its obvious you are sorry because you are trying to rectify the problem.

What I consider is rude is if you profess yourself to be a dog lover and yet you pass another dog owner with a reactive dog and tut making assumptions about them.

You should help whether by giving them a wide birth with a smile and an encouraging nod, take some steps back so that the distance gives them space, or ask if their dog would like to say hello. Communicate!!!!!

This weekend I met the owner of a very large 5 month old German shepherd. The pup was dancing and barking on the lead despite his efforts. Everyone was giving them a wide birth. I stopped and asked would the pup like to say hello and gave him the time to get the pup under control before bringing it to calmly greet my dog. His relief was lovely to see and he was so grateful, his rough and ready look was he had come out straight from work and yet people were making assumptions due to the breed and his dress.

If you love dogs and are a decent person you shouldn't be tutting but assisting even if its just with an understanding smile.

Our society has become too selfish and judgemental we need to share knowledge and compassion.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Ha ha! That is exactly me! And I DO apologize! But I'm a compulsive apologizer, and hopeless people pleaser...
> 
> I'm one that doesn't like labels for exactly this reason. *To me a dog who barks here and there on lead isn't really a "reactive" dog. A dog who snarks after a fair warning was ignored is to me, not a reactive dog.
> I think the term reactive has become too broad and is now being used to include normal and appropriate dog behaviors.
> ...


Totally agree with this, especially the definition given here of a 'reactive' dog. I run a dog boarding service as a living - I get to meet and take care of lots of dogs, almost all of them lovely. Most of them have things they may dislike, or bark at.

However, NONE of them are like Dexter. He is terrified of things which *most* dogs don't even seem to notice, let alone react to.

If he is *off lead *when he reacts/kicks off, then I ****always**** apologise if it's a person that he's reacting to. Always.

However, if he's on lead, then he's a lot more reactive and I also have to put every bit of energy and focus into calming a 35kg Lab who at times goes over threshold immediately. Sometimes I manage to yell an apology. Sometimes I don't. I am, I guess, very fortunate in that usually people seem to understand that I don't have a 'rude' dog - I have a scared dog.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

ouesi said:


> No, it's not necessarily an easy fix (though honestly, sometimes inappropriate behavior can be sorted very simply and quickly), but it's not rocket science either. If you've been working on the same thing for months with little or no improvement, to me that's a sign that you need to change something.


I would consider regular barking at a dog across the street who is minding its own business to be an unnecessary reaction, to be honest. Thusly, I use the term reactive, because thats what my dog is, to my mind. 
I _wouldn't_ consider it reactive if the dog was gobby at him first, or giving off aggro body language to him, or getting too close and being intrusive, that would probably be a reasonable and natural response from my dog. But just to a passing, disinterested dog I consider it an extreme/over the top reaction.

But I have tried about 4 or 5 methods since this problem came up with him, giving each one a good few months of solid work to give it a good go, and have never seen this problem fixed. 
We can have one day which is brilliant, the back to square one, seemingly, the next day. It always seems like its 1 step forward, 2 back. 
I thought it was me, for a while, that I was transmitting my nervousness at seeing another dog, so even tried a ton of relaxation techniques for myself, I even went as far as chewing gum on walks as a dog handler told me people occasionally do this in the show ring to mask their nerves. 
Thats the level I went to in my desperation to try anything that might help.

But I am pretty sure that it isn't me, given that on a number of occasions, dresden has seen the dog before I have, and still reacted the same. And seems to do so when with other people on walks too, not just me.

I keep trying, though. I give each method a few months, if no improvement, I try another. But it can be very hit and miss as, like I say, some days I take him out and think 'wow, he's really making progress on this!' then the next day, its like I've not ever even done any training at all :001_unsure:

To date, I have tried:
treating with lots of high value treats whenever he clocks the other dog, trying to make a positive association with an approaching dog. Often, these days, I can distract him with treats and either prevent or lessen the barking, but its never been consistent and I don't think it has ever gone any way to 'fixing' the problem, only managing it.

I've tried a solid watch me, which works sometimes but depending on the dog he's spotted, how it is behaving and how close it gets, that is also not always trustworthy. Sometimes he'll lock onto me and watch til it goes, sometimes he just cannot do it and the lure of the other dog is too much.

I've tried getting him into a sit, and taking him to one side, and trying to keep his focus as other dogs go by.

I've tried taking a tug out with me to distract him from a dog, which does actually work, but causes other problems in that it then gets him really silly and excited for tug and I have to calm him down again before we can walk on (plus meant always having to have a big, cumbersome tug rope on me at all times which is quickly accessible! Not ideal).

I've tried throwing treats on the ground so he has to look down at them and not at the other dog.

I've tried a number of different leads/collars/harnesses/a dogmatic head collar all to see if he feels less or more comfortable/restrained in a certain type of gear.

I've tried letting him see the dog for a second or so, then, as long as he does not react, turning and walking in the opposite direction with lots of fuss so he realises that he does not need to bark, that I will sort the situation out. This is what I am doing currently, and seems to be showing some results, but again, it has been something I've been working on a long time too now. Some days, he'll look straight at me when he sees an approaching dog, waiting for his treat, which is just fantastic and exactly what I want. Other days, not a chance.

I've even had him walk on lead nicely beside another dog before, but only after he has had that initial few minutes to get used to it. Thats the thing with my dog; give him a few minutes around other dogs, and he pretty much stops. He has been in halls fall of other dogs for a good hour and the barking has stopped after the initial few minutes and he's 'got used' to them being there and doesn't react any more.
Unfortunately, that isn't much help in the real world when dogs pass by in seconds, and I can't explain to the owner 'oh, if they got to know each other, he'd be fine!'.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

Shadowrat said:


> I would consider regular barking at a dog across the street who is minding its own business to be an unnecessary reaction, to be honest.


I wouldn't. Especially since you say he just barks once or twice and then is fine.


Shadowrat said:


> But I have tried about 4 or 5 methods since this problem came up with him, giving each one a good few months of solid work to give it a good go, and have never seen this problem fixed.
> We can have one day which is brilliant, the back to square one, seemingly, the next day. It always seems like its 1 step forward, 2 back.


All the methods you describe can vary greatly in success depending on how good your timing and knowledge of dogs is. There are little tweaks that can make a huge difference. Like with DS/CC, if the thing he reacts to is presented at a level that's too high and you shove treats at him, all you do is diminish the reward value and don't accomplish any DS/CC. With all of these methods I really suggest having a professional watch you with their unbiased eye. Makes all the difference.



Shadowrat said:


> I've tried a solid watch me, which works sometimes but depending on the dog he's spotted, how it is behaving and how close it gets, that is also not always trustworthy. Sometimes he'll lock onto me and watch til it goes, sometimes he just cannot do it and the lure of the other dog is too much.


Then the watch me is not solid, again this is where someone who is experienced and knowledgeable can really help you get your cues to the next level.



Shadowrat said:


> Thats the thing with my dog; give him a few minutes around other dogs, and he pretty much stops. He has been in halls fall of other dogs for a good hour and the barking has stopped after the initial few minutes and he's 'got used' to them being there and doesn't react any more.


Yeah, that's not a reactive dog, that's a normal working breed dog


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

My lad is extremely reactive .his behaviour is quite irrational at times ....

Some people If I get the chance I do explain as to why he is reacting to them ...but quite often I don't get the chance  I need to get him away quick..to calm him down.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Well take my last post back! taz (drugged enhanched owner) wouldnt give me peace,lifted my girl up....he humped my leg(covered in muck) my girl is dressed.lucy was livid! he kicked his dog.i told him not to do this....he told me a staff had attacked his dog, what to do?


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Yeah, that's not a reactive dog, that's a normal working breed dog


Thats an interesting view. I've never been told that before. I mean, I have had quite a few people tell me 'oh, barking at other dogs is just a dobie/guarding breed thing!' but I did not want to become one of these people who excuse a behaviour by blaming their dog's breed. 
I do accept that certain breeds have a higher likelihood of some behaviours, but I wouldn't want to fall back on 'its ok, thats what dobes/working dogs do!' as I'd feel I was being a bit.....defeatist?

I know he's not terrible, I fortunately do not have to deal with snarling, lunging, snapping or prolonged episodes that last more than a few seconds, just barking. And I know he is fine with dogs off-lead, so really, my issues are minor compared to some.
I've taken him to dog shows, in fields surrounded by dogs, and to vet waiting rooms surrounded by dogs, and in all cases he has mostly stopped the barks after a few minutes of getting used to things and having time to adjust.

But due to his breed, a bark can be interpreted as more than it is.
People wouldn't think twice about a yorkie or chi yapping a few times at a passing dog, or possibly even a spaniel or lab, or any other breed viewed as 'friendly'. 
But with Dres, his barking has the potential to be seen in a much more negative light. Perhaps this is why I so want to solve this problem; I don't want people seeing my dog barking in the street and use it to fuel breed prejudice, which dobes still suffer from to an extent  When I got him, I really wanted to have him grow up as an ambassador for the breed, and to change people's views, and in most ways, he succeeds: Im often told how obedient he is, how well he listens, how affectionate he is, people regularly smile and thank us in the street when I get him to sit as kids pass by, but this one issue is the one I feel we fail on somewhat.

If you do not think he is reactive, should my approach to the behaviour differ, then? I've always trained him as one would a reactive dog, but when you say it is normal working breed behaviour and not reactivity, are you able to elaborate on that? It might help me understand more and thusly work with it more efficiently. 
I also took on board the advice you gave. Thankyou.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

Shadowrat said:


> Thats an interesting view. I've never been told that before. I mean, I have had quite a few people tell me 'oh, barking at other dogs is just a dobie/guarding breed thing!' but I did not want to become one of these people who excuse a behaviour by blaming their dog's breed.
> I do accept that certain breeds have a higher likelihood of some behaviours, but I wouldn't want to fall back on 'its ok, thats what dobes/working dogs do!' as I'd feel I was being a bit.....defeatist?


Well, guarding breeds DO bark. That's kind of what they're bred for - alerting to things that seem out of place. That doesn't mean you let them act like idiots, or excuse the behavior, but it is kind of what you sign up for when you get a breed like a dobe. Retrievers like to have things in their mouths, herders like to corral things, guarding breeds bark at the flower pot when you move it from the front door to the side of the steps.



Shadowrat said:


> If you do not think he is reactive, should my approach to the behaviour differ, then? I've always trained him as one would a reactive dog, but when you say it is normal working breed behaviour and not reactivity, are you able to elaborate on that? It might help me understand more and thusly work with it more efficiently.
> I also took on board the advice you gave. Thankyou.


I think you simply work on it as best it works for your individual dog. I wouldn't address it as "reactivity" simply as behavior. You don't want him to bark? Well, there are tons of ways of dealing with that. The easiest I've found is to teach a bark cue and then an all done cue to signal he doesn't need to bark anymore. Putting behaviors on cue gives you tons more control over them.


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

What a mountain out of a molehill! - dogs bark ....some breeds bark more than others, mine are a territorial breed - if someone walks past their house or their paddock they will bark ... if they are off their own territory they won't - although interestingly they do circle us constantly when off lead and if we stop they'll place themselves between us and anyone we meet ...it's their heritage , what their 'hard wiring' tells them to do.

Why should I apologise for them doing what has been deliberately bred into them for many generations ........


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Bijou said:


> What a mountain out of a molehill! - dogs bark ....some breeds bark more than others, mine are a territorial breed - if someone walks past their house or their paddock they will bark ... if they are off their own territory they won't - although interestingly they do circle us constantly when off lead and if we stop they'll place themselves between us and anyone we meet ...it's their heritage , what their 'hard wiring' tells them to do.
> 
> Why should I apologise for them doing what has been deliberately bred into them for many generations ........


Do you know, I think that this and Ouesi's post does just about sum it up. Every breed has different characteristics bred into it for the work it was intended for and so when you choose a breed you should choose one that will fit into your life style and environment. Maybe that is the problem nowadays, there are so many frustrated working breeds around. 
In spite of having poodles I am still a collie person at heart but they are no longer suitable for my lifestyle so I dont have one. If I still had sheep or if I still did obedience and was able to walk miles then I would be back to having one like a shot.

Of course that is a huge generalisation but I think it could well be a valid point in a lot of cases.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

Bijou said:


> Why should I apologise for them doing what has been deliberately bred into them for many generations ........


I do agree, and I know dobes bark, BUT.....on a few occasions in the early days when I asked whether his reactions could be partly down to his breed, I was pretty much shot down and told all dogs are the same and that was simply an 'excuse' and made to feel stupid for even mentioning it!


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Do you know, I think that this and Ouesi's post does just about sum it up. Every breed has different characteristics bred into it for the work it was intended for and so when you choose a breed you should choose one that will fit into your life style and environment. Maybe that is the problem nowadays, there are so many frustrated working breeds around.
> In spite of having poodles I am still a collie person at heart but they are no longer suitable for my lifestyle so I dont have one. If I still had sheep or if I still did obedience and was able to walk miles then I would be back to having one like a shot.
> 
> Of course that is a huge generalisation but I think it could well be a valid point in a lot of cases.


In some cases, perhaps. I know a good few people who have gotten breeds totally unsuited to their lifestyle, just based on looks. I've lost track of the number of huskies I've seen in totally the wrong hands around here, who don't get nearly enough exercise or mental stimulation. But at the same time......I've never met a reactive one. Met a hell of a lot of reactive dobes and GSDs (and staffs, too). In fact, I'd say half or more of the dobes I know are barky on lead to some degree. 
It is important to match breed to your lifestyle, which I would assume no-one on this forum needs telling! I really wanted a husky, but I just had to accept they were not right for me, much as I love them  
But swings and roundabouts! I had to give up on a husky, but in doing so, found my perfect breed so I can't be too bitter about it.


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Do you know, I think that this and Ouesi's post does just about sum it up. Every breed has different characteristics bred into it for the work it was intended for and so when you *choose a breed you should choose one that will fit into your life style and environment. *Maybe that is the problem nowadays, there are so many frustrated working breeds around.
> In spite of having poodles *I am still a collie person at heart but they are no longer suitable for my lifestyle so I dont have one*. If I still had sheep or if I still did obedience and was able to walk miles then I would be back to having one like a shot.
> 
> Of course that is a huge generalisation but I think it could well be a valid point in a lot of cases.


SO So true!... I really do think such a lot of problems of today's dog world is because many dogs are bought for looks and not into the breed being suitable for them  (please note I'm certainly just talking generally and not pointing at anyone on here) 

When I was younger I so LONGED for a Border Collie, but with having 4 children and a hectic life children bring I knew I could never be able to have one ..... and now kids all grown up and gone I still can't as I don't have the energy to devote to them, so I just content myself on seeing them on tv doing agility and a few wonderful ones now and again "running" along side happily with their "fit" owners


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## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, two of mine were offlead (rasco was on as he was covered in poo) for about half an hour then a lead dog came in and Dexter went barking and bouncing up to it. Not all the way stopped about twenty feet away. I rushed over and held up my hand to apologise a couple of times and shouted sorry (I don't shout well) and got Dexter on his lead and Poppy on hers and left. I apologised again as I left.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

If the dog is on a lead and not lunging so gets out of control I wouldn't be bothered... 

Think its a bit soft to expect a sorry for a dog just simply barking..


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Kicksforkills said:


> Well, two of mine were offlead (rasco was on as he was covered in poo) for about half an hour then a lead dog came in and Dexter went barking and bouncing up to it. Not all the way stopped about twenty feet away. I rushed over and held up my hand to apologise a couple of times and shouted sorry (I don't shout well) and got Dexter on his lead and Poppy on hers and left. I apologised again as I left.


How was your apology received ?


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## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

diefenbaker said:


> How was your apology received ?


Well, she didn't say anything back or make any signal. Just carried on walking round.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

I thought I would try this out and I got 'sheeshesht  ' at the other night for apologising


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## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Sorry is definitely not difficult...our dog sometimes gets worried around big men that pass us in the street when he's walked and he will growl...never had anyone that has been nasty to us and they always laugh but I will always say sorry because at least people know that you're a friendly person and have it in you to apologise even if it is one of those things that can happen when walking your dog....I'd rather be remembered as that woman that apologises then that moody old bitch that lets her dog growl at others and says nothing...just my opinion but it works for me. x


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

GingerRogers said:


> I thought I would try this out and I got 'sheeshesht  ' at the other night for apologising


Sometimes, you can't win.
If you don't apologise because you'd rather focus on your dog and stop the situation escalating, you're seen as rude or careless.

If you_ do_ apologise, you risk your dog escalating or prolonging its reaction because you're not concentrating on trying to get its focus back and make it calm down, because you're too busy apologising.

Just depends on the person you encounter, I suppose, how fond/tolerant of dogs they are in general, what kind of day they're having, how their own dog reacts, what they think of you on first glance, and so on.
You can't prepare for all eventualities or personalities, so you can never get it right all the time.

Given this, I personally just go with what I would expect if I were the one with a dog being barked at. And personally, it wouldn't really bother me, nor would I demand the owner turn their focus off the dog and onto me just to say 'sorry'. 
I'd rather see them working with their dog and putting some training into effect and working to get control of the situation than see them standing there gawking with a yelling dog at the end of the lead uttering 'sorry!'
That, to me, would suggest a more conscientious owner who is actually working on the issue, which would be more than enough for me.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Shadowrat said:


> Sometimes, you can't win.


The important thing is to be responsible and keep your dog under control. Even if he's kicking off he can still be under control. The general public aren't clamouring for changes to dog legislation because of under control dogs. They're more concerned with out of control dogs and dog crap everywhere.


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

Blitz said:


> Every breed has different characteristics bred into it for the work it was intended for and so when you choose a breed you should choose one that will fit into your life style and environment. Maybe that is the problem nowadays


I think this is a really big problem at the moment. So many people seem to think that there's nothing to distinguish between breeds other than their appearance.

I don't believe breed traits are an absolute determination of a dog's behaviour but they have to be given considerable weight when choosing a breed as without appropriate management/training it's very easy for them to lead to negative behaviours.

I've seen people who profess to be dog experts on another (non dog-based) forum giving out the advice that there's no point choosing a breed as it's no indication of what they're likely to be like :blink:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Jus sat thinking... ANd it was hard I can tell you.. 
I was out walking last summer and a woman with a collie was catching up to me.. her dog rounded me up with my dogs till she managed to get right passed.. she apologised for her dogs behavior and I thought nothing more of it.. the dog wasn't being aggressive... end of... I guess some people would over think about this and think this woman and her dog didn't deserve to be out.. x


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> I don't believe breed traits are an absolute determination of a dog's behaviour but they have to be given considerable weight when choosing a breed as without appropriate management/training it's very easy for them to lead to negative behaviours.


Classic example of this is the guy next door to me.
He has a yorkie, which they seem to have gotten because his wife wanted something small and cute, but didn't kinda understand that terriers are serious working dogs. 
He NEVER walks his dog, which from conversations in the past I've realised is because it is reactive/dog aggressive and he doesn't want the hassle. 
It gets let out into the yard 2 or 3 times a day for a wee, then right back indoors.
It barks constantly when they are out, without end. Over, and over. 
The guy next door is shouting at it all the time, every day, to the point where we've come very close to saying something because he'll bellow like this late at night and early morning, too. And my husband works night shifts, so it can be very hard to deal with when he is shouting all day. 
Any time the dog so much as lets out one bark, he'll scream at it. Its always getting told off. 
Hes one of these people who seem to think the more you yell at a dog, the more it will learn. But he's never bothered teaching it what 'lay down' means, yet he's constantly shouting 'LAY DOWN!' at regular intervals throughout the day. 
I mean.........every single day there is raging shouting coming from next door about the dog.

And I just feel so sorry for it. 
This is a terrier, never walked, stuck in a small house, never trained or played with (we never hear any playing, praise, fun, squeaky toys or anything from next door...) and just expected to sit there and be quiet and pretty all day.

I mean........my adolescent doberman is less trouble than this dog appears to be. I _never_ have to shout at Dresden like this guy yells at his dog. 
I've come close to putting something through his door about how to train basic things, how he needs to take this poor dog out for a walk or run or just get it out of the house, but I don't wanna be 'that guy'.

I have to add, I do not think he ever harms the dog. He seems to be all mouth, just one of these people who communicate by shouting and not much else. I don't think the dog is poorly treated or anything, it just seems utterly utterly bored out of its head and, as a result, acts up, then gets yelled at.

He probably thought he was getting an 'easy' dog by getting a yorkie, but honestly.....I often wonder why he even still has it. I mean....he doesn't seem to get any joy out of it, never walks it (and god knows he could do with some exercise) and just seems to be in a strop with it all the time. I can't see what joy it brings to him.
He's shouting right now, as Im typing, and the dog is yapping.

To me, thats the classic example of someone getting a dog without really knowing what they're taking on. I don't think some people really realise how hard terriers can be, especially when not given outlets or exercise!


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## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

I personally don't mind if another dog owner doesn't apologise but you have to think that maybe the majority of people are not dog lovers and some really hate dogs no matter what they do, good or bad so to apologise will perhaps make dog haters in to dog accepters and that can't be bad....having been to many gardens that allow dogs and when leaving we've decided to write a nice piece in their guest book only to read loads of nasty comments regarding dogs being allowed..."would have been a great day if dogs weren't allowed" and so on...

Makes me remember a few months ago a man in his 60's passed us every morning on our walk and it was obvious he wasn't a dog person and ours must have picked up on it cause he always growled as he passed...the man looked like a bulldog chewing a wasp and would say "gertcha" to him as he passed and the dog would growl....I always said sorry and then one morning he said "he's not very friendly" to which I replied "neither are you, you pass us everyday and have never wished us a good morning even though I always do to you"...well you could have taken a picture of his face it was so good ...so shocked, he just said nothing and walked on....BUT next day he said morning and our dog now leaves him alone


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

283 posts on saying Sorry in public...
it could only happen in England!


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## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> 283 posts on saying Sorry in public...
> it could only happen in England!


....SORRY x


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

lisa0307 said:


> ....SORRY x


LOL .....You beat me to it :tongue_smilie:


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