# Fidget in labour



## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

So came back from the supermarket today to have Fidget constantly meowing. I had only fed her before I went out and, though she is a bit of a pig, she wasn't giving me that meow to say feed me and wasn't waiting in the kitchen like she usually does when she wants a feed.

She followed me around meowing loads then sat on my bed purring. Got up to put the oven on and hubbie happened to call me and pointed to her tummy where it was pulling inwards. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I've put her in her box and this time she is actually staying in there. I've put a new litter tray for her (She was sharing with Tibbs) and water bowl and food next to box and she goes straight back in after having a drink. 

She's lying down in there at the moment and doesn't appear to be doing much. No more meows but still purring a lot when I stroke her.

It is also her last day of pregnancy today as well.

Could this be labour?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

To be honest i am disappointed you wont post in cat chat, you have been given so much advise from nice people i would have hoped you could share the joy with us.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> To be honest i am disappointed you wont post in cat chat, you have been given so much advise from nice people i would have hoped you could share the joy with us.


Yes, I am aware of that but you will always get that one person who won't leave you alone so it's safer to post here.

I am sharing as well, hence I posted this and am asking for advice. Plus, CC, I knew you'd check this forum side out.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I very rarely go into General, so what i was more concerned about is if Fidget had a problem and i didnt notice this thread until something awful had happened, to be honest i would have felt i had let Fidget down.

Surely whats been said with others is in the past, Fidget is now at the crucial stage of needing advise, so please come back to Cat Chat where the possibly problems can be seen to quicker.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_if she is in labour i do hope it goes well, do keep us posted, good luck._


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Boadicea1 said:


> I don't want to post this in Cat breeding just to get more flack on this subject (I've heard everyone's opinion on the subject) so thought I'd post it here...
> 
> So came back from the supermarket today to have Fidget constantly meowing. I had only fed her before I went out and, though she is a bit of a pig, she wasn't giving me that meow to say feed me and wasn't waiting in the kitchen like she usually does when she wants a feed.
> 
> ...


I think she could well be in labour and to be honest this would be far better in cat chat or breeding just in case of anything going wrong.
She may be happier if you stay with her - my girls don't like to be left alone at all when having kittens.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> I think she could well be in labour and to be honest this would be far better in cat chat or breeding just in case of anything going wrong.
> She may be happier if you stay with her - my girls don't like to be left alone at all when having kittens.


Yes. I can't leave her as she won't let me. I have to sit right in front of the box (It's in my bedroom) as If I go on my bed she comes out meowing and if I leave the room she tries to follow. She's purring a lot and still eating.

How long can labour go on for?

Thanks lymorelynn.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

colliemerles said:


> _if she is in labour i do hope it goes well, do keep us posted, good luck._


Thanks Colliemerles.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> I think she could well be in labour and to be honest this would be far better in cat chat or breeding just in case of anything going wrong.
> She may be happier if you stay with her - my girls don't like to be left alone at all when having kittens.


Okay....Can you move this for me then please?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Fidget is the only one that may need help. It doesnt matter what anybody thinks of you, its your cat that is the concern where we are all trying to help you with.
At least post in cat breeding section then where many breeders can help, after all you can ignore any negative posts.
Your a big girl Boadicea1, please just do this for Fidget, once kittens are safely born and Fidget is fine, then if you wish to post in General thats up to you.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Boadicea1 said:


> Okay....Can you move this for me then please?


Thankyou, you know its only for Fidget. xxx


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_how long is a piece of string lol , labour can last hours, you just dont know, but keep us updated about what she is doing, as this may help, eg, is she pushing washing herself eating etc._


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Fidget is the only one that may need help. It doesnt matter what anybody thinks of you, its your cat that is the concern where we are all trying to help you with.
> At least post in cat breeding section then where many breeders can help, after all you can ignore any negative posts.
> Your a big girl Boadicea1, please just do this for Fidget, once kittens are safely born and Fidget is fine, then if you wish to post in General thats up to you.


I'm sorry, CC, that I can't help but feel this way and I do want to help my girl which is why I am coming on here...but I just don't want anymore flack and just a post where I am given advice as it will only make me move off this forum, you know.

And I got a little upset when I read what you put the other day about the whole accidental pregnancy thing...which is your opinion I know but still....

Anyway, enough.....onto Fidget now.

What do you think?x


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

ok, now we can help being on one thread.
Has Fidget had the mucus plug come away yet, if seen this looks like scrambled egg.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

colliemerles said:


> _how long is a piece of string lol , labour can last hours, you just dont know, but keep us updated about what she is doing, as this may help, eg, is she pushing washing herself eating etc._


At the moment she's on my bed as I've had to have dinner in my room because she doesn't want me to leave my room and I don't want her leaving my room either. (Said room far too much then) Put Tibbs in the other room too as she keeps trying to play with Fidget who really isn't interested...I think this is because earlier on Fidget kept meowing at Tibbs who thought she was wanting to play but not the case...


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> ok, now we can help being on one thread.
> Has Fidget had the mucus plug come away yet, if seen this looks like scrambled egg.


No.  She's lying on my bed at the moment....doesn't stop meowing though.

She's acting normal apart from the meowing and babies are kicking hell of a lot more....it's like ripples or something....


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_yes keep the other cat away if its trying to play with her, looks like you may be in for a long night._


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

If that was the post referring to WLBSH having a baby, that wasnt directed in anyway to you, this was just a light hearted joke with WLBSH, after all we are both breeders.

I have helped you and supported you and yes i will admit accidental litters do annoy me in general but only as i have a rescue and seen some awful things over the last few months. I was in no way having a go at you, i helped Tigerboo aswell and i would like to think she was greatful and wouldnt be upset by my comment.

All i want is for Fidget and babies to be born safe, grow well and have a long happy life, im happy to help all i can and i know others will help you aswell. 

Many things in life annoy me hun, doesnt mean i wouldnt help where i can.

(anyway wlbsh is on her 6th litter lol.) hope she doesnt read this.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

colliemerles said:


> _yes keep the other cat away if its trying to play with her, looks like you may be in for a long night._


Okay....is it normal for her to be acting...normal to begin with in labour?

Babies are still moving so that is a good sign...


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Fidget is probably getting ready then. Labour goes in 3 stages.
stage 1 is where the plug comes away.
stage 2 is where the kittens are in position for birth.
stage 3 is when kittens are born.

My queen wants me with her at this stage, dont worry im sure you have plenty of time. xx


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Babies will keep moving hun until they are in the birthing position, just relax its all fine.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Fidget is probably getting ready then. Labour goes in 3 stages.
> stage 1 is where the plug comes away.
> stage 2 is where the kittens are in position for birth.
> stage 3 is when kittens are born.
> ...


Okay then, thank you.

Just worried something will go wrong. When should I start to worry with the labour. If she doesn't give birth by the morning should I worry then and call Vet?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

If Fidget is still on your bed you might want to put puppy pads or old sheets under her - just in case. It does sound as if she is in the early stages of labour. The mucus plug doesn't always come away until very close to the onset of second stage and you will see her visibly pushing - she may grunt, huff or meow at this stage.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> If Fidget is still on your bed you might want to put puppy pads or old sheets under her - just in case. It does sound as if she is in the early stages of labour. The mucus plug doesn't always come away until very close to the onset of second stage and you will see her visibly pushing - she may grunt, huff or meow at this stage.


Put a puppy training pad down as she's just spotted on my bed.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Things are definitely under way then :thumbsup:


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

is her belly making wave movements and is she panting or growling still x


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

I presume this is labour now with the spotting?


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> is her belly making wave movements and is she panting or growling still x


Yes! That's what I meant by the ripples. It's like waves.

Not meowing at the moment. She'll do it if I turn my attention from her for a second.

How long do you think she has left to go?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

she is in labour but how long until kittens are born, well i cant tell you that sorry. just be patient they will arrive in their own time. x


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

She's moving around a lot. In and out the box, up and down on my bed (Requiring me to move the puppy training pad a dozen times on my bed). I was told they will move around a lot when they are in labour.

She was just rolling around on my floor and lay down on her back so I could stroke her tummy. Is this behaviour normal too?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It all sounds normal to me  She's trying to get comfortable and to find the best place to have her kittens. This stage could go on for several hours now before she is actually ready to give birth.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

All this sounds very similar doesnt it cc


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

It sure does tigerboo.
Anyway whilst we wait for these babies to arrive, how is tiger and her babies doing, trixie is 2 weeks old already and showing signs of a true tortie. xx


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Yeah there all doing really week there a week old tomorrow and aw bless her


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Gosh time went quick there, a week old.
ok well i have to go to work now, so can i leave you to give advise if needed from me on what i have told you with Tiger please, xxx


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Thats fine cc xx


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Thankyou Tigerboo. xxx


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Whats happening


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## Simon's cats (Aug 14, 2011)

I think in this case advice is important. The cat has been allowed to get pregnant and it's a key factor to why only experienced breeders should be allowed to breed, because they know what to do and how to support their cat at this time.

There is obviously a lot of knowledge on the forum so I would make the most of it.

after that I think it's important not to glamourise the situation, with "oooh cuuuuuuuute kitties pic" As new posters that joined, that may have a cat for the first time, get the impression that it's ok to breed. If a support network has been built up, that kind of thing that can done privately or if people want to see pics of cute kittens, google images is my suggestion! 

I think as responsible pet owners we have the responsibility to convey the right message on the forum. 

I wish your cat good luck with her labour.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

Simon's cats said:


> I think in this case advice is important. The cat has been allowed to get pregnant and it's a key factor to why only experienced breeders should be allowed to breed, because they know what to do and how to support their cat at this time.
> 
> There is obviously a lot of knowledge on the forum so I would make the most of it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response SC. I've already heard this from a few members the past two weeks and have taken all advice into account. 

Yes, she is getting spayed once kittens are old enough for her to be able to go down Vets and I am in no way glamourising this situation at all and have not been once.

I have owned up to this mistake of not getting her done straight away when I took her on as a stray but what's done is done so I wont listen to anyone else now who says along the lines of 'Shouldn't have gotten into this mess, your fault'

Just needing the advice on this thread now and that is all.

I will take offense to anyone who says I am irresponsible and am not doing well by my Cat. She got pregnant, yes, and I have taken her to the Vets, came even on here for advice and brought her in as a stray.

Thank you.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Simon i think you should back off now i really do shes come on here for advice not to glamourise the situation i tried to be nice to you but you just push it to far sometimes. You had exactly the same attitude with me.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

Simon's cats said:


> I think in this case advice is important. The cat has been allowed to get pregnant and it's a key factor to why only experienced breeders should be allowed to breed, because they know what to do and how to support their cat at this time.
> 
> There is obviously a lot of knowledge on the forum so I would make the most of it.
> 
> ...


Missed some of your message.

I do agree with putting the right message out, for the owner and Cat. Just a shame some people on this forum cannot do it without becoming nasty and rude.

The whole glamourising thing is a mystery to me. Personally, I think Cat owners should not see (When users post pics of kitties) a good thing and think 'I want to do this now'

You should know what's right for your Cat. It may sound hypocritical coming from me but I didn't choose for my Cat to get pregnant and know what needs to be done after the kitties are born.

Anyway, Fidget is doing okay at the moment. She's currently resting in her box.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Boadicea1 said:


> *what's done is done*
> Just needing the advice on this thread now and that is all..


Precisely. Now back to the case in hand - what's happening with Fidget at the moment?


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

tigerboo said:


> Simon i think you should back off now i really do shes come on here for advice not to glamourise the situation i tried to be nice to you but you just push it to far sometimes. You had exactly the same attitude with me.


It's cool TB. I haven't taken his comment into offense and have appreciated his input.

How's your girl doing btw?


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

tigerboo said:


> Simon i think you should back off now i really do shes come on here for advice not to glamourise the situation i tried to be nice to you but you just push it to far sometimes. You had exactly the same attitude with me.


Couldn't agree more with this!!!

The point has been made, and stressed, to saturation. The OP knows what action to take after this pregnancy is complete.

So it's time to let her remove her sack cloth and ashes and move on.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

Ianthi said:


> Precisely. Now back to the case in hand - what's happening with Fidget at the moment?


Sleeping at the moment. She'll move around again in a moment.

User said to put PTP in the box as they're easier as you can just throw it out, put a new one in instead of cleaning dirty sheets but she keeps ripping the sheets with her claws and actually burying underneath the blankets. I have to keep putting the PTP back on top of the blanket when she comes out for a second. I think she's just trying to get comfortable.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Shes good thank you. I dont wanna broadcast to much it might turn into an argument lol.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

tigerboo said:


> Shes good thank you. I dont wanna broadcast to much it might turn into an argument lol.


What's done is done TB and you obviously love and care for your Cat so I presume you know what you're doing...Are you getting her spayed after? Just curious.

If you are then do continue to let us know how she is doing. After all, I'm sure you'll have more questions for people like CC and other breeders once kittens are going through weaning stage, etc. I haven't stopped nagging CC, haha, and probably will throughout the kitties being with me (I am hoping to keep some of them)

Do post some of your pictures as I do not, in anyway, think you are glamourising the situation. After all, wouldn't any Cat owner who hasn't got their Cat spayed think this about breeders too who post picture of their Cat babies? Still pictures of a litter regardless if they come from a breeder or not. So I'm sure that's glamourising a little if Cat owners would think it's okay for this to happen. Does that make sense?

Glad she is doing okay.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Ooo, exciting - is she still rippling? Or is she resting now? Is she starting to visibly push? cos that's when you need to keep an eye on the clock as she shouldn't really be actively pushing hard for more than 30 - 45 mins.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Even though she has lost her mucus plug it could still be a couple of days,you say shes sleeping that seems to relaxed for it to be now.

Sounds like things may start though good look with it.

And cc yep im reading


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

spid said:


> Ooo, exciting - is she still rippling? Or is she resting now? Is she starting to visibly push? cos that's when you need to keep an eye on the clock as she shouldn't really be actively pushing hard for more than 30 - 45 mins.


Hi Spid,

I can't tell at the moment if she's rippling as she's lying down in the box at present. She's not sleeping and very alert. I think sleeping at the moment is the last thing she wants to do. I don't think she can even if she wants to what with being restless and uncomfy.

No pushing at the moment. She is spotting though, moving about...meowing has stopped at the moment.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Feel her sides gently by laying your hand on her - you will feel gentle ripples - that's her getting the kittens into position. Pushing is very obvious once it comes.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

when tabitha had her kittens last year, everything happened very quickly. she did spend the day following me around everywhere but when she started properly i knew instantly. she literally lost the mucus plug, let out a huge meow - something i've never heard before - then the first one was born. all within about 2-3 minutes. within less than 1 hour she had given birth to 5 healthy kittens


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spid said:


> Feel her sides gently by laying your hand on her - you will feel gentle ripples - that's her getting the kittens into position. Pushing is very obvious once it comes.


I agree once shes pushing you cant miss it.

Her moving around is good it will help kittens get into place.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

cats galore said:


> when tabitha had her kittens last year, everything happened very quickly. she did spend the day following me around everywhere but when she started properly i knew instantly. she literally lost the mucus plug, let out a huge meow - something i've never heard before - then the first one was born. all within about 2-3 minutes. within less than 1 hour she had given birth to 5 healthy kittens


That is very quick.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Yes tiger will be spayed once kittens are weaned.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> That is very quick.


i'd never been through a pregnancy or birth with a cat before so this was really easy for me tabitha was so good


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

cats galore said:


> i'd never been through a pregnancy or birth with a cat before so this was really easy for me tabitha was so good


Im glad she was kind to you


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

spid said:


> Feel her sides gently by laying your hand on her - you will feel gentle ripples - that's her getting the kittens into position. Pushing is very obvious once it comes.


Yes, rippling...No pushing though and meowing again.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Lets hope it wont be long now. As long as she isnt stressed she should be okay.


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

Fingers crossed she has a smooth labour I am just about calmed down after poor peaches the other day! 

Xxxx


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

tigerboo said:


> Lets hope it wont be long now. As long as she isnt stressed she should be okay.


Besides the meowing and pacing about, all she's been doing is purring when I'm close by. I think she uncomfortable but not stressed which is very good.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

That was a bit worrying wasnt it? How are peaches and babys wlbsh's?


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

Tamiyamumma said:


> Fingers crossed she has a smooth labour I am just about calmed down after poor peaches the other day!
> 
> Xxxx


Thanks. 

I hope so too.

I have CC and Carly's number anyway if I panic and have my Vets number...Hopefully won't need to contact any.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

cats galore said:


> when tabitha had her kittens last year, everything happened very quickly. she did spend the day following me around everywhere but when she started properly i knew instantly. she literally lost the mucus plug, let out a huge meow - something i've never heard before - then the first one was born. all within about 2-3 minutes. within less than 1 hour she had given birth to 5 healthy kittens


This is exactly how my late Luci had hers. She let out a huge meow, louder than normal and she was a Siamese!! Popped out 3 kittens and then 30 mins later had another two whilst we were celebrating in the kitchen!!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Hopefully not. I think it's worth knowing Boadicea that, despite the claims on here sometimes, the _vast majority _of cats, especially moggies, give birth without _any_ problems at all. That said, of course it's always wise to have the necessary phone numbers to hand and be ready to act in the unlikely event of things not going to plan.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

tigerboo said:


> That was a bit worrying wasnt it? How are peaches and babys wlbsh's?


Super duper tb,the blue girl sweep is the piggy but i expect sooty will catch up he was slow off the mark but doing fab now.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Aw thats good news. Do we know any more about fidget?


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## Rachel64 (Feb 7, 2013)

Keeping my fingers crossed that Fidget has an easy labour


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_i keep popping on to check, hope everything goes ok,_


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## Simon's cats (Aug 14, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> It's cool TB. I haven't taken his comment into offense and have appreciated his input.
> 
> How's your girl doing btw?


Thank you for taking my post how it was meant,


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

Hey guys, nothing to report as of yet. 

I think I really am in for a long night.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Mine do it all time act like somethings going on then nothing :sneaky2:.

Im closely watching our tass she only has two days left.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Mine do it all time act like somethings going on then nothing :sneaky2:.
> 
> Im closely watching our tass she only has two days left.


Well, she's spotting, pacing and meowing and then will retreat back to her box for a rest just to repeat the same thing. Think she comes out just to make sure I'm still here.

And as I am typing this, she just came out for a stroke. Poor baby cannot get comfortable.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> Well, she's spotting, pacing and meowing and then will retreat back to her box for a rest just to repeat the same thing. Think she comes out just to make sure I'm still here.
> 
> And as I am typing this, she just came out for a stroke. Poor baby cannot get comfortable.


Sounds promising.Good you have a close bond with her.


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

Hoping all goes well for Fidget


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

Just spotted this after a Mother's Day lunch out with my mum and children. Hope everything goes OK and she has an easy time with healthy babies.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

Jansheff said:


> Just spotted this after a Mother's Day lunch out with my mum and children. Hope everything goes OK and she has an easy time with healthy babies.


Thank you Jansheff.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

sarahecp said:


> Hoping all goes well for Fidget


Thank you.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

I hope she doesnt take all night


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Im back now and see ive been rumbled by wlbsh 

I would love to see a photo of the kittens once born and Fidget is settled.

I would imagine the kittens are moving into birthing position and Fidget isnt sure whats happening which is why she keeps going into her box then getting out again.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

tigerboo said:


> I hope she doesnt take all night


Me neither but if she does, she does.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Im back now and see ive been rumbled by wlbsh
> 
> I would love to see a photo of the kittens once born and Fidget is settled.
> 
> I would imagine the kittens are moving into birthing position and Fidget isnt sure whats happening which is why she keeps going into her box then getting out again.


That's most likely what it is then. She's in there at the moment but I'm sure she'll be out again in a moment.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Lets just pray her and babies get through it all ok i think weve had to much sad news on here lately.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Im back now and see ive been rumbled by wlbsh
> 
> I would love to see a photo of the kittens once born and Fidget is settled.
> 
> I would imagine the kittens are moving into birthing position and Fidget isnt sure whats happening which is why she keeps going into her box then getting out again.


I do not think photos will be appropriate regardless of what I believe. I do not want to be 'glamoursing' the situation and users use what you do and say in this forum against you and randomly mention it in another post which is not even relevant to the discussion. To tell you the truth, CC, this forum brings more disappointment and upset to me than it does in the joy of interacting with people, feeling happy people care to give advice, etc. Sad there are people who go out of their make to make your life miserable and cannot help themselves to be a royal pain in the butthole.

I will happily send you photos of them through PM. That way you can have a look and tell me what you think. Not that pics can say a lot, haha.x


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

tigerboo said:


> Lets just pray her and babies get through it all ok i think weve had to much sad news on here lately.


Thank you TB.


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh no please don't think that. I know that I and many others will be very relieved to see fidget and her beautiful babies xxx


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Kitten photo's via pm will be good enough for me. Thankyou.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_any breeders about, another cat may be in labour,

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/295129-not-sure-when-shes-due-she-getting-ready.html ........... any help would be gratful._


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Yep it sure does sound like it doesnt it cm.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

On way to find the thread, other breeders please do come along and help. pleaseeeeee.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

How she doing now any changes?


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2013)

. Back onto Fidget..

Still lying down but back out of the box now and babies are still kicking. It looks like I may be up all night -Gets out caffeinated drinks-


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

What is happening to this place lately 

What's done is done 

Can't we all just focus on fidget and her future babies.
Hope it all goes very smoothly and look forward to cute photos! X


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Aw poor thing at least she has you be her side.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Boadicea1 .... ignore everything else except advise for Fidget, she is all that matters now.
Stay focused on her.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Keep us updated


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Hoping everything goes smoothly.


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

I was in your place last September. My Tamiya wasn't spayed pregnant and lest than a year old. So I know exactly how you feel huni!

It really hurt at the time as you are at your most stressed and some comments strike like a knife and it does feel like the whole world is against you. As you have and will continue to see this is a place of vast knowledge, experience and passion for animals.

Pm me whenever you need too huni xxxx


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Any updates on Fidget?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

we need an update please, its been an hour since your last post.....is everything ok.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Tamiyamumma said:


> Oh no please don't think that. I know that I and many others will be very relieved to see fidget and her beautiful babies xxx


Completely agree. You've every right to post the pictures if you wish to do so. Nobody has the right on here to dictate you do otherwise. I personally don't see this as 'glamorising' anything. The kittens are here. End of. Anyone who doesn't wish to look needn't do so. No-one is forcing them to or_ dictating_ what they should or shouldn't do!


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Anyone had contact with Boadicea? Hope everything's alright, little concerned.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

If anyone accuses you of 'glamorizing' because you post pics of the babies, I think there will be several people reporting their post to the mods. 

I, for one, would be delighted to see for myself that mother and kits are alright, and to people who wish to comment I would simply say: 
It is very easy to take a stab at someone when you are safely hidden behind your keyboard. Try to imagine you were face to face with the person you are directing the post to, and this person happens to be a 6 foot wrestling champion. 

I'd like to see how courageous you would be then......


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

How is Fidget getting on?
The cat on the other thread has already delivered 3 kittens with no problem at all.....

This truly is a night to remember, 2 litters of kittens being helped into this world by virtual PF midwives......

However much anyone may be opposed to oops-litters, and make no mistake, I am, it is a truly great achievement for a forum to help people help their cats through labour and birth in this manner.

Please let's not forget how wrong things could go for these cats if there was no-one to advise the owners, and let's be proud of our breeders for stepping in and talking them through.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> How is Fidget getting on?
> The cat on the other thread has already delivered 3 kittens with no problem at all.....
> 
> This truly is a night to remember, 2 litters of kittens being helped into this world by virtual PF midwives......
> ...


Aww jiskefet :thumbup1:


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Sadly no updates on Fidget which does annoy me as i will be wondering all night if she and her kittens are ok.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Sadly no updates on Fidget which does annoy me as i will be wondering all night if she and her kittens are ok.


Tbh i got the feeling the cat wasnt quite ready,im sure op will update when it starts.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Me, too....
I hope she is still online, just invisible, and will keep us posted as soon as there is some news...

Some Mother's Day, eh?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

well we have one successful litter born this evening so thats good news.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

I mean, even if the kittens were born with no problem at all, it would be nice to know that they're safe and okay 

I've helped a couple of cats give birth before (both oops litters), thankfully they went smoothly with no complications, in one litter though most of the kittens died sadly, but the birth went smoothly - in that sense we were very lucky. I was already put off letting cats have kittens before this because of the stress and worry and just the general strain for the cats. But going over these threads has just put me off even more, although I'm chuffed about the healthy kittens and sad for WLBSH two that were lost, I never ever wish to do it again. In the same way, I hope others see these threads and feel the same way "No way I could do this!" Breeders don't get enough credit for what they do for the pure love and appreciation for the breed.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

You never know people may read what happened to peaches and realise things can and do go wrong even to breeders.

So one really good reason to spay/neuter,although i feel like im preaching.But in all seriousness it doesnt all go plain sailing.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Ive pm'd but nothing as of yet.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

Hey guys,

Sorry for not replying. Fidget slept with me in the bed all night and refused to move so turned off the laptop and went to sleep with her.

Woke up at seven and pushing started....First baby has arrived. Little bit of a problem at first as half way out and she refused to push anymore and cried to me for help. Pulled baby out and had to rip sac and clean as mummy was busy eating afterbirth. Kitty is meowing loads and snuggling up to mummy at the moment.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

good job you were there to give a helping hand. hope the rest arrive safely


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

Number 2. Much easier for her and doing everything all by herself.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

What a kind kitty letting you both sleep first.

Glad things are good what colours are they?

Does she look like there are more?


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Aw good girl fidget.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_well done fidget, fingers crossed it carrys on going well.keep us posted._


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Any more news?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Fab that you've got 2! Well done!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

No more kittens?
Well done, Fidget!!!!!


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Any more news on fidget?


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't like it when it goes all quiet......................


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Agree hope things are ok,op let us know.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, I had a feeling it would be this morning! Glad to hear it all went smoothly and hope Fidget and the _two_ babies (are there more by now?!) babies are doing well.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

Number 2 sadly had to be taken down the vets to be put down as she had a hernia.  Very sad for all and vets have let me take her home to bury her. She was a little fighter.

First one is doing great and the third one. Believe more is to come as can feel them bouncing around.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

So sorry to read that #2 didn't make it. RIP little baby. 

Good though that #1 & #3 are doing well. Here's hoping there aren't too many more.....


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

carly87 said:


> Fab that you've got 2! Well done!


Thank you.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

R.i.p little one.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

Sorry I haven't been replying much but I've been sitting with Fidget where she wants me to be and then had to go to the Vets. Can't be glued to the laptop at the moment. I will be updating. Just hang in there!

Really hard not to let number 2 get to me as she was so strong and really did want to live. 

This is a good reason why cats need to be spayed and people should hear more about the bad side of things with Cat pregnancies. Not all rainbows and lollipops. 

Fidget is doing great at the moment. Just going to concentrate on the ones who are here now.

Thank you for all your kind support. x


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

How bad was the hernia?I had one born with one it was fine.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I hope this wasnt the kitten you pulled out.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> How bad was the hernia?I had one born with one it was fine.


Bad enough that the Vets had to put it down when I took her down there.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> I hope this wasnt the kitten you pulled out.


No, it wasn't thanks.

First one I had to pull out, second one came out easy but was bad when she came out so I rang the vets, told them about her, said to bring her down, told me it was a hernia and the best thing to do was have her put down as she would have died anyway.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

It was the 2nd kitten, the first is the one she pulled out.
Working with rescue and also being a breeder ive seen many hernia's and this hasnt been a problem as the vet can fix this at the time of neutering, but then i dont know how bad this hernia was.
Also what has shocked me the most is you left your girl in labour to go to the vet, me personally wouldnt leave my girl in labour, but thats just my own thoughts.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> Bad enough that the Vets had to put it down when I took her down there.


Can you explain what it looked like?


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> It was the 2nd kitten, the first is the one she pulled out.
> Working with rescue and also being a breeder ive seen many hernia's and this hasnt been a problem as the vet can fix this at the time of neutering, but then i dont know how bad this hernia was.
> Also what has shocked me the most is you left your girl in labour to go to the vet, me personally wouldnt leave my girl in labour, but thats just my own thoughts.


My hubbie was with her CC but thanks for pointing that out.

Well, obviously it had to be bad for the vets to put her down. They know what they're doing, right? They are vets after all and had to go to uni to become a vet.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Can you explain what it looked like?


Bright red, like intestines.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> I hope this wasnt the kitten you pulled out.


No, that was the first one....

So sorry to hear about the little mite. 
That must have been so hard. Not just having to let go, but also having to leave Fidget and the kittens to have the poorly one seen by the vet.
Run free at the bridge, angel baby...

All fingers and paws crossed the rest will be delivered just fine.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> No, that was the first one....
> 
> So sorry to hear about the little mite.
> That must have been so hard. Not just having to let go, but also having to leave Fidget and the kittens to have the poorly one seen by the vet.
> ...


Hubbie was with her so it was okay. 

Thank you for your kind words Jiskefet.x


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

ETA ignore iv seen how bad it as now


Wtf the vet is wrong a kitten can very much survive with a hernia they are common,i have never seen or heard of one that bad that the kitten had to be pts.

such as shame rip little kitten


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> Bright red, like intestines.


so it was all open oh dear how sad iv never had anything that bad poor little thing you did the right thing then its not suffering now.

Rip little kitten

some babys are born with there insides on the out side dosc can save them,but its much different with such a tiny kitten.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

Basically the vet said:

Sometimes it happens because the baby is attached to mum inside and it can rip when they come out. Basically the hernia was coming from where she was attached to mum as it had all ripped.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> Hubbie was with her so it was okay.
> 
> Thank you for your kind words Jiskefet.x


Still, you must have felt torn apart, wanting to be two places at once....


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> so it was all open oh dear how sad iv never had anything that bad poor little thing you did the right thing then its not suffering now.
> 
> Rip little kitten
> 
> some babys are born with there insides on the out side dosc can save them,but its much different with such a tiny kitten.


That's what happened. Sorry I didn't explain more. To be honest sometimes my vets don't explain good either. But, yes, basically it had all ripped...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> Basically the vet said:
> 
> Sometimes it happens because the baby is attached to mum inside and it can rip when they come out. Basically the hernia was coming from where she was attached to mum as it had all ripped.


I can understand it been deformed but i doubt this can happen with the mum pushing it out by herself.

Did she push it out herself?


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> Still, you must have felt torn apart, wanting to be two places at once....


Of course but what was I supposed to do, leave baby here knowing that she could have had a chance to live? No, I am glad I went and am not sorry for it. It would have been neglect and damn right disgusting if I hadn't of taken the baby down.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> That's what happened. Sorry I didn't explain more. To be honest sometimes my vets don't explain good either. But, yes, basically it had all ripped...


Are you sure it ripped thats bad,or was it neat like it had grew that way?


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> I can understand it been deformed but i doubt this can happen with the mum pushing it out by herself.
> 
> Did she push it out herself?


Yes, she pushed number 2 out herself. The only one I helped with was the first one.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> Yes, she pushed number 2 out herself. The only one I helped with was the first one.


Ok i have to go school now im sorry about the little one im sure cc will help if you need her.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Are you sure it ripped thats bad,or was it neat like it had grew that way?


Well, it looked bad to be honest. At first I thought her guts had come out so I called my Vets and explained it was coming from the bit where she had been attached to mum...and the vets said it sounded like a hernia and to bring her down so I did. That's where they told where she had been attached to mum...it had ripped when she was on her way out or something.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Are you sure it ripped thats bad,or was it neat like it had grew that way?


Well, if the vets thought they could save it, they would have.....
Maybe the skin was very thin or not properly developed, which may be a reason why it ripped in the first place.

And even if they could have patched it up, you aren't always doing the kitten a favour by keeping it alive. It all depends on the extent of the deformity. There may have been further damage or defects inside, who knows? 
Sometimes it is kinder to 'just' let go, however hard it may be to admit you cannot save them all.....


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> Well, it looked bad to be honest. At first I thought her guts had come out so I called my Vets and explained it was coming from the bit where she had been attached to mum...and the vets said it sounded like a hernia and to bring her down so I did. That's where they told where she had been attached to mum...it had ripped when she was on her way out or something.


Sounds like the placenta got stuck and everything came apart in the wrong place as the baby was pushed out without the placenta following......

Poor little thing, he must have been in pain.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> Well, if the vets thought they could save it, they would have.....
> Maybe the skin was very thin or not properly developed, which may be a reason why it ripped in the first place.
> 
> And even if they could have patched it up, you aren't always doing the kitten a favour by keeping it alive. It all depends on the extent of the deformity. There may have been further damage or defects inside, who knows?
> Sometimes it is kinder to 'just' let go, however hard it may be to admit you cannot save them all.....


Yes totally agree.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> Well, if the vets thought they could save it, they would have.....
> Maybe the skin was very thin or not properly developed, which may be a reason why it ripped in the first place.
> 
> And even if they could have patched it up, you aren't always doing the kitten a favour by keeping it alive. It all depends on the extent of the deformity. There may have been further damage or defects inside, who knows?
> Sometimes it is kinder to 'just' let go, however hard it may be to admit you cannot save them all.....


To be honest if the Vet says she doesn't have a chance I am going to listen to the Vets. Surely they know what they are talking about? After all they are a vet and you put your trust in them.

Exactly. My vet said it was the right thing to do for her and that she would have died anyway so I signed the consent form for her to be put down. I am going to trust and believe my vet on what they tell me. They are the ones who know about animals...I don't understand why there seems to be tension on this subject...I rang them when I knew something was wrong and took her down when they strongly advised it...

I would like to know what I have done wrong then?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I understand now, sorry but i was confused to begin with and at the moment im currently on a horse 

I had this with Toula, where the cord is attached the insides had grown outside the body but this kitten was stillborn.

That is completely different to a hernia but as you havent seen this before and you wasnt listening to the vet due to wanting to rush back home, i can understand how you got confused.

RIP little baby.

can i just explain to you that a hernia is normally caused by pulling of the cord whilst still attached, this is easily fixed at neutering and some queens cause hernia's whilst chewing the cord off. Intestines outside the body looks like a bubble of blood which is the intestines and although some vets can repair this putting a kitten which is only an hour if that old they rarely survive this operation.

The kitten would have died on its own if its the intestines and from my own experience (others may have seen more than me) they are normally stillborn, but sadly this hasnt been the case for you.

Im really sorry you lost this little one and yes its heartbreaking and you will keep thinking is there anything i could have done but in all fairness and sadness nothing would have saved this tiny kitten, its just very unfortunate you have witnessed such a sad event.

Anyway on a brighter note im glad fidget was with hubby and not on her own.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> To be honest if the Vet says she doesn't have a chance I am going to listen to the Vets. Surely they know what they are talking about? After all they are a vet and you put your trust in them.
> 
> Exactly. My vet said it was the right thing to do for her and that she would have died anyway so I signed the consent form for her to be put down. I am going to trust and believe my vet on what they tell me. They are the ones who know about animals...I don't understand why there seems to be tension on this subject...I rang them when I knew something was wrong and took her down when they strongly advised it...
> 
> I would like to know what I have done wrong then?


I don't think the anger is being directed at you. Some vets are a bit too quick to PTS rather than save an animal. I think the questions are more on how bad it was to ascertain if this was the case.

It is good that you rate your vet highly but please don't be afraid to question them. They are not as 'all-knowing' as they would like us to think they are. There are great vets and there are [email protected] vets. I know, I've had dealings with both.

How is everything with Fidget now? Anymore babies yet?


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> To be honest if the Vet says she doesn't have a chance I am going to listen to the Vets. Surely they know what they are talking about? After all they are a vet and you put your trust in them.
> 
> Exactly. My vet said it was the right thing to do for her and that she would have died anyway so I signed the consent form for her to be put down. I am going to trust and believe my vet on what they tell me. They are the ones who know about animals...I don't understand why there seems to be tension on this subject...I rang them when I knew something was wrong and took her down when they strongly advised it...
> 
> I would like to know what I have done wrong then?


I don't think anyone believes you have done anything wrong...
But there are good vets, excellent vets and rubbish vets.

We love BSH has just had a bad experience with a vet who messed up the caesarian of her queen and let one of her kittens go cold and hungry overnight, so it died on her while it could have been saved.

I can imagine she is rather suspicious of the expertise of some vets as far as births and newborn kittens are concerned.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> I understand now, sorry but i was confused to begin with and at the moment im currently on a horse
> 
> I had this with Toula, where the cord is attached the insides had grown outside the body but this kitten was stillborn.
> 
> ...


^ this totally.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

The questions was really to get a clearer picture of what had happened so other people dont think a hernia is an automatic pts by a vet as they can be fixed.

It wasnt directly questioning you as to what happened but i suspect it was more of the case the intestines outside the body. 

please dont be so defensive with questions, remember we cant see what is happening.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Boadicea1 said:


> Well, it looked bad to be honest. At first I thought her guts had come out so I called my Vets and explained it was coming from the bit where she had been attached to mum...and the vets said it sounded like a hernia and to bring her down so I did. That's where they told where she had been attached to mum...it had ripped when she was on her way out or something.


Yes, it does sound a bad one. I'd imagine from what you've told us though one this serious was a congenital one (some are) and not post-natial, necessitating (more immediate) surgery which vets would be reluctant to do on a little one this young.

RIP Little one. Hope Fidget and other two are doing well.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Sounds like a busy morning. The little one with it's guts outside it's body is at peace now, you and the vets made the right decision. Are there any more coming, or has she stopped at two?


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

spid said:


> Sounds like a busy morning. The little one with it's guts outside it's body is at peace now, you and the vets made the right decision. Are there any more coming, or has she stopped at two?


Thank you Spid. 

No, no more coming now. Mum is sleeping in her box with babies.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Sounds like Fidget is finished with 2 kittens, i hope we get to see a photo of the new arrivals.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> To be honest if the Vet says she doesn't have a chance I am going to listen to the Vets. Surely they know what they are talking about? After all they are a vet and you put your trust in them.
> 
> Exactly. My vet said it was the right thing to do for her and that she would have died anyway so I signed the consent form for her to be put down. I am going to trust and believe my vet on what they tell me. They are the ones who know about animals...I don't understand why there seems to be tension on this subject...I rang them when I knew something was wrong and took her down when they strongly advised it...
> 
> I would like to know what I have done wrong then?


You havnt done anything wrong,we didnt know how bad it was.

Im shocked it could happed during birth it would seem more likely it was born this way a defect.Well i hope it would be that,poor little mite.

Totally agree you did right and taking it to the vets its now out of its suffering.

I hope mum and babies are ok now and the best of luck.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Sounds like Fidget is finished with 2 kittens,* i hope we get to see a photo of the new arrivals *.


It would be nice but I think the fear of being accused of 'glamorising accidental litters' by so many members  will most likely put the OP off doing so!

Personally, however, I think it would be a nice reward for those who have stood by the OP during this difficult time and have been trawling this thread every few minutes for an update in the hope that mum & babies are doing well.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Your ever so right moggy baby and i know there have been words swapped with her from other members. Keed ur chin up boadicea1 like you told me. P.s i think most of us wish fidget you and her babies all the best.


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## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

Congrats on the arrival of the two kittens, so sorry about the kitty you lost. 
X


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear number 2 baby didn't make it  

RIP Number Two, run free at the bridge little one xx

Well done Fidget, Boadicea and all that gave support :thumbup: 

Hope Mum and babies are doing well


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> Just let them try.........
> One more single post to that efect, I dare you all.
> 
> We want to see pics of mum and the babies and I will be dealing out red reps left, right and centre to anyone who is stopping her!!!!!!
> ...


Totally,im still thinking about the little one.Poor little thing.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Totally,im still thinking about the little one.Poor little thing.


Me too, I have once seen a deformed kitten like that preserved in a jar.
To actually see him come out of the womb and struggle to survive must be truly horrendous, worse than anything I can imagine.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> Me too, I have once seen a deformed kitten like that preserved in a jar.
> To actually see him come out of the womb and struggle to survive must be truly horrendous, worse than anything I can imagine.


I think seeing that would have paniked any breeder/person.At least the little mites not suffering.


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

Just caught up with this after a morning at the gym. Well done Fidget on your two new babies - and the midwife and virtual midwifery assistants.

I'm so sorry about the poor baby that didn't make it. That must have been very traumatic. RIP little baby. 

On this occasion I would like to see a photo of the little family - I'm not usually one for photos and don't often post them - but I'd like to see these babies. If Boadicea1 is reluctant to post them on the open forum in a thread, despite everyone's encouragement, a solution might be to post them in an album on your profile. Then anyone who wants to see them can do so, anyone who doesn't won't bother.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am closing this thread for now. Can I just remind members that the discussion of rep is NOT allowed - members are free to use the rep facility how they choose.
Boadecea - I am sorry about the lost kitten  and hope the other two are doing well.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am coming to the conclusion that the cat section (breeding in particular) could do with a Feliway plug in!
'Accidental' litters of kittens should not be encouraged and I do not believe that anyone on here, whether they have their own 'accidental' litter or not, thinks that they should.
It is, however, unfair to intimidate members who find themselves in this situation. If they post at the outset of a cat escaping or they think it may be pregnant it is all very well to tell them their option to get the cat spayed but to continue to pressure them once that option is no longer viable does smack of bullying. I am singling no-one out over this - it is a general statement.
On the other side of the coin, it does not help the situation when other members - some of quite long standing - talk about giving 'red rep' to anyone who does not conform to their own view. By all means give the rep as you see fit but do not use it as a threat to tackle those you think are in the wrong.
I have no problem with those members whose cats have had accidental litters and have no worries about them posting pictures of any kittens. I do not, however, expect them to keep bringing up past comments from earlier threads
I am calling a truce on this now. If there are any further incidents like those over the past few weeks further action will be taken and anyone who thinks I am talking to them can take it as an official warning.
Accidental breeding is NOT encouraged but if posters need help at any point I would like to think they can come here and get it without being made to feel as if they are the scum of the earth.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Fair enough.....


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> I am coming to the conclusion that the cat section (breeding in particular) could do with a Feliway plug in!
> 'Accidental' litters of kittens should not be encouraged and I do not believe that anyone on here, whether they have their own 'accidental' litter or not, thinks that they should.
> It is, however, unfair to intimidate members who find themselves in this situation. If they post at the outset of a cat escaping or they think it may be pregnant it is all very well to tell them their option to get the cat spayed but to continue to pressure them once that option is no longer viable does smack of bullying. I am singling no-one out over this - it is a general statement.
> On the other side of the coin, it does not help the situation when other members - some of quite long standing - *talk about giving 'red rep' to anyone who does not conform to their own view. By all means give the rep as you see fit but do not use it as a threat to tackle those you think are in the wrong.*
> ...


Just a quick reply to this point Lynn - This was not about red-repping members who did not 'conform to our view' but who were intent on bullying the OP for putting up photographs.

Just wanted that clarified from my point of view.

Cheers


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> I am coming to the conclusion that the cat section (breeding in particular) could do with a Feliway plug in!
> 'Accidental' litters of kittens should not be encouraged and I do not believe that anyone on here, whether they have their own 'accidental' litter or not, thinks that they should.
> It is, however, unfair to intimidate members who find themselves in this situation. If they post at the outset of a cat escaping or they think it may be pregnant it is all very well to tell them their option to get the cat spayed but to continue to pressure them once that option is no longer viable does smack of bullying. I am singling no-one out over this - it is a general statement.
> On the other side of the coin, it does not help the situation when other members - some of quite long standing - talk about giving 'red rep' to anyone who does not conform to their own view. By all means give the rep as you see fit but do not use it as a threat to tackle those you think are in the wrong.
> ...


Glad to see this back open.

I understand where you are coming from and am glad that you have posted this for all to see, including myself.

Not once have I ever made out I am innocent in all of this and that first thread I posted was rather sore between a lot of us but I really do deserve to be forgiven for that, surely?

I am hurt though that time and time again my threads are getting locked, comments edited, yet these bullies are getting away with their comments. Take a user for example - The other day they quoted something I had put as a joke to another user and tried to cause an argument with it. I had my say to said user and left the thread but I did not see their comment getting edited. To be perfectly honest with you, Lyemorelynn, this is encouraging bullies are on this forum (And what some of the breeders say) this will put people off who are in my situation to seek advice and help. Not all of us who have had 'Accidental litters' glamourise this, seek attention and make it all about 'me, me, me'

This is not directed at anyone but just referencing what some people have said. If you cannot come on here for help without be accused like that, what can you honestly do?

I know people have the right to express their opinions freely but when it comes personal to the point users are becoming upset it is, quite frankly, bang out of order and bullies should be getting a good telling off for it. I do not like either that some users bully others in such a subtle way it does not warrant a telling off, despite we all know exactly what they are doing.

I am getting quite annoyed with this whole glamourising thing. Surely, new cat owners should know what choice to make themselves and know not to think 'Cute kitties, I want my cat to be a pumping machine now' Sorry for the vulgar words there....

I know what I have done wrong (I do not try to defend myself with this but to defend myself with the same onslaught digs being thrown at me left right and centre).

Again, so glad you posted this. :thumbup1:

I did not get Fidget spayed when I took her on as stray. This resulted in her becoming pregnant and I should have put the fear aside she would be taken from me and should have gone down the vets.

I have owned up to this and am sorry this has happened.

Just no more arguments now....

Pretty please?


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

Cats wether pedigree or moggies all deserve help if needed. I have really big issues with moggy breeding not because they are moggies but due to the fact it is so uncontrolled thus putting mum and babies at risk but that is another story.. but when a fellow human being needs help and reassurance i will help them regardeless of my personal views. It is hard to accept, but when someone comes on a breeding forum for help you can bet your bottom dollar their mind is made up to continue with the pregnancy and that is THIER choice to make, all we can do is offer advice on how to deliver and raise the kittens well.. and all kittens are cute so pics should always welcome IMO 

Hope all goes well with this girl and her babies x


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

We should move on and should have done so a long time ago. If a member decides to see the pregnancy to term, we should respect and help. Evidently we are all different and have ways of seeing things but I have felt bad for people when it seems everyone wants them to do what they feel is right and evidently the OP doesn´t want to.

It is important to spay as it avoids accidental litters but if someone doesn´t, I don´t feel there is a need for 300 members to beat them down, especially if the person is not arguing with anyone. If they decide to go ahead, then really lets do what we are here for, help them and stop making them feel like the scum of the earth. Not wishing to bring out bad vibes but this has been on my mind for a while now, especially seeing how some advice is giving with too much force. The most important thing is the cat and people accept education when it is done with care.

That said, congrats on your kittens and I for one want to see them, they are not less important because they were an accident.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lets change the note,how are the babies doing?


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## GingerJasper (Oct 29, 2012)

Boadicea1 said:


> I do not think photos will be appropriate regardless of what I believe. I do not want to be 'glamoursing' the situation and users use what you do and say in this forum against you and randomly mention it in another post which is not even relevant to the discussion. To tell you the truth, CC, this forum brings more disappointment and upset to me than it does in the joy of interacting with people, feeling happy people care to give advice, etc. Sad there are people who go out of their make to make your life miserable and cannot help themselves to be a royal pain in the butthole.
> 
> I will happily send you photos of them through PM. That way you can have a look and tell me what you think. Not that pics can say a lot, haha.x


Can you PM me with some pics pls. I have 2 boys so no chance of any kittens being born here. Also dont want to be a furbaby granny either (or a hairless one either lol) i'm much too silly for that kind of responsibility.

Hope Fidget is ok.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Fidget has just had another 1.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

If pics are going to be taked id love to see them in the forum


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

tigerboo said:


> Fidget has just had another 1.


Looks like she needed a rest before the rest.Good luck i hope its ok.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

tigerboo said:


> Fidget has just had another 1.


Oh wow!!! BD1 thought there was still more in there after # 3 was born.

Jeez..... that is one long labour. Thank feck I'm not a cat!!!!  

Sending you vibes Fidget - keep pushing girl!! 

xx


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Probably from 2 separate matings......
May be more to come in that case....


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Oh wow!!! BD1 thought there was still more in there after # 3 was born.
> 
> Jeez..... that is one long labour. Thank feck I'm not a cat!!!!
> 
> ...


mogs my girl had 3 then stoped for 12 hour then had another 3.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> <snip>
> Thank feck I'm not a cat!!!!


Cats would probably be very, very relieved they are not humans having one massive baby if they could grasp the concept!


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> mogs my girl had 3 then stoped for 12 hour then had another 3.


I repeat.... Thank Feck I'm Not a Cat!!!! :lol: :lol:

I have heard of labours going like this with cats so am not surprised tbh. Especially when BD did say earlier on that she was sure there was still movement in mumma cats belly.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> Probably from 2 separate matings......
> May be more to come in that case....


Tbh i think she has emptied on horn..rested then started to empty other horn.

If it was from 2 separate matings id expect a couple of days between both sets.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Cats would probably be very, very relieved they are not humans having one massive baby if they could grasp the concept!


But wouldn't having kittens feel like one massive baby for them, given the size of a Cat?


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Cats would probably be very, very relieved they are not humans having one massive baby if they could grasp the concept!


i know i'd rather have a litter of little'uns rather than a watermelon!!! 

BD1- we could help you with it's colour if we could see it!?!  :001_tt1:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

kodakkuki said:


> i know i'd rather have a litter of little'uns rather than a watermelon!!!


Exactly! You see what I see!


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Boadicea1 said:


> But wouldn't having kittens feel like one massive baby for them, given the size of a Cat?


no idea of cats, but when my dogs are whelping its one push and the pup pops out- if only humans popped out so easy!


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Im getting confused which thread to write on


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

tigerboo said:


> Im getting confused which thread to write on


Why are there more threads?


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

kodakkuki said:


> no idea of cats, but when my dogs are whelping its one push and the pup pops out- if only humans popped out so easy!


Mine do pop out that easily, 3 kids and only experienced 2hr 40mins of labour in total


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## GingerJasper (Oct 29, 2012)

Well done so far Fidget.

Well i'm certainly learning something new by reading this thread (and obviously getting excited about the kittens being born). I never knew that a female could carry different kittens from different males even if they'd mated at the same time. I assumed whichever male got there 1st would be the father of the kittens.

I personally have loved the great and good things that I have read on here. Not going to get political (didn't read other threads so not interested) just glad that Fidget and the babies that have survived are doing well. Its always very sad when a baby dies or is PTS whatever the circumstances.

Good luck with the next few arrivals BD1 your doing a great job.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Why are there more threads?


Yes there is a thread titled fidget.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

tigerboo said:


> Yes there is a thread titled fidget.


Yep found it.Thanx for letting me know or i would have missed lots of it it was already about 3 pages long when i got there.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Why are there more threads?


Because this one got closed for awhile so I had to make another one.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Why are there more threads?


 lol that was funny but im still going to get confused lol.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

GingerJasper said:


> Well done so far Fidget.
> 
> Well i'm certainly learning something new by reading this thread (and obviously getting excited about the kittens being born). I never knew that a female could carry different kittens from different males even if they'd mated at the same time. I assumed whichever male got there 1st would be the father of the kittens.
> 
> ...


Thank you ever so much GJ.x


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Are you sure it ripped thats bad,or was it neat like it had grew that way?


Sounds like Gastroschisis or Omphalocele. I've seen a few babies with one or other and some of them had very poor outcomes. These articles have some fairly explicit drawings.

Gastroschisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Omphalocele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

pts was without doubt the best thing for the kitten.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Jiskefet said:


> Sounds like the placenta got stuck and everything came apart in the wrong place as the baby was pushed out without the placenta following......
> 
> Poor little thing, he must have been in pain.


No, this is a developmental problem. It happens in humans, and it can be seen in ultrasounds before the baby is born. I suspect it's not actually that painful at least to start with, but infection will rapidly set in.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Sounds like Gastroschisis or Omphalocele. I've seen a few babies with one or other and some of them had very poor outcomes. These articles have some fairly explicit drawings.
> 
> Gastroschisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Omphalocele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


Just checked these out and Omphalocele is exactly what happened with baby no 2. Her organs were basically on the outside. Why the Vet told me it was a hernia on the phone and when I went there I don't know.

Thank you for posting this OS.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Boadicea1 said:


> Just checked these out and Omphalocele is exactly what happened with baby no 2. Her organs were basically on the outside. Why the Vet told me it was a hernia on the phone and when I went there I don't know.
> 
> Thank you for posting this OS.


It is a sort of hernia, but a very serious one.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

OrientalSlave said:


> Sounds like Gastroschisis or Omphalocele. I've seen a few babies with one or other and some of them had very poor outcomes. These articles have some fairly explicit drawings.
> 
> Gastroschisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Omphalocele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


Yes, that's exactly what I meant this morning. Not to labour the point but a condition the little one was born with and not something incurred as a result of an injury _during_ the birth process.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> It is a sort of hernia, but a very serious one.


So the vet was right as everyone said they can live with Hernias. I got really confused.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Sounds like Gastroschisis or Omphalocele. I've seen a few babies with one or other and some of them had very poor outcomes. These articles have some fairly explicit drawings.
> 
> Gastroschisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Omphalocele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...





Ianthi said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I meant this morning. Not to labour the point but a condition the little one was born with and not something incurred as a result of an injury _during_ the birth process.


I agree this is what i was thinking of but didnt know its name.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Boadicea1 said:


> So the vet was right as everyone said they can live with Hernias. I got really confused.


_Simple _ones yes they can and some even self-resolve or are repaired later. However when large amounts of the abdominal contents are exposed it's an entirely different (more serious) matter-organ injury would be impossible to prevent!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Sounds like Gastroschisis or Omphalocele. I've seen a few babies with one or other and some of them had very poor outcomes. .


Know a breeder who just had a kitten with gastroschisis and her vet repaired it, kitten is going strong at 2 weeks old but that is very rare.

Suspect either the vet was trying to use an easily understood term, or perhaps didn't know the technical name off the top of his head. 
Many vets aren't well versed in very young kittens.

So sorry you lost the little one Boadicea, it's never easy but you can be satisfied you took the appropriate action.


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