# Smoking



## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Smoking in the house with dogs?

No one in my house smokes, but just wondering, if people who smoke dog, do you smoke inside around your dog? 


The reason I am asking is it has occured to me that people bang on (in a good way) about giving a really good quality food, lots of excersize, but I fail to see the point, if your dog is inhaling cigarette fumes...


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Hang my head in shame but yes I do.


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## terrierist (Sep 26, 2012)

I used to smoke - never in the house because of my pets.

Its a big bug bear of mine, when peopledo do this.


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

Not in the house.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

We did until very recently, tbh it never occured to me! No idea why as obviously its one of the 1st things you consider when pregnant/around children!

I've now banned smoking in the living room, partly because it was recently decorated and I dont want the ceiling turning yellow again in 6 months, and also because I want it to air out over the next couple of months so it's fresh when we bring baby home. It's the part of the house the dogs are in 99.9% of the time (except when they sneak into the kitchen!) so Im sure they'll benefit too


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

I've seen dogs and cats with lung cancer due to passive smoking - I guess if someone cares so little about their own health to smoke then I very much doubt they'd give a second thought about their pet smoking half of what they do and being smaller it's like smoking 10 at once!!! 
I saw a cat dissection once and it came from a smokers house, it was killed by a car I think, but it stank of cigarettes for starters and it's fur was yellow where it should have been white, it's lungs looked like it smoked 100 a day - the poor cat!!


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

I smoke and to be honest i think the dogs get more fumes when out walking as their noses are often level with exhaust fumes from cars.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Our house is totally smoke free. Guests as well. Most smokers I know are fine with this and are okay about it.


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## Reverie (Mar 26, 2012)

I used to smoke but not anymore, now I hate it! (Apart from when I've had a few drinks )

I wouldn't let someone smoke in my house, but if I did allow it I'd make sure they were nowhere near Buffy. I'm a pretty protective mum with stuff like that.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I used to and me and the OH gave up two days before my dog was diagnosed with cancer. Talk about guilty.  No-one is now allowed to smoke in the house. I hate the smell of stale cigarettes.


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## ginge2804 (Nov 5, 2011)

Reverie said:


> I used to smoke but not anymore, now I hate it! (Apart from when I've had a few drinks )
> 
> I wouldn't let someone smoke in my house, but if I did allow it I'd make sure they were nowhere near Buffy. I'm a pretty protective mum with stuff like that.


I like this because im the same 
I used to smoke, but have been stopped now for coming up to three years, until iv had a drink 

But no, no one in my house smokes, and I would never do it around Molly.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't smoke and neither does my OH so we don't allow anyone else to smoke in our home either. 

My brother smokes and if he visits he goes in the garden


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I don't smoke, neither does anyone I know so not really applicable.

But, previous tenant in my flat did and tbh I sometimes think smokers should have come and seen it when I moved in. The ceiling in the lounge was brown, the blue walls were brown, the white doors had been turned a nasty shade of beige and even sanding them makes the whole place stink of smoke.

If that's what happens to paint/plaster, WTF is it doing in yours and your pets' lungs?!!

No offence intended, just came as a real shock to me!


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## Izzysmummy (Oct 12, 2011)

Non-smoking household here too. I can't stand the smell and I've always been adamant no child of mine would be allowed to be around someone when they're smoking and that goes for dogs too! Luckily no one in mine or OHs family smoke and none of our friends do either so it's not an issue for us!


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I'll be honest, it is something I hate... I don't think it is right for kids to be stuck in a room/car with someone smoking, and I don't think it is any different for dogs (or any animal for that matter). 

I don't smoke (and neither do my parents, who I live with), and no one is allowed to smoke in the house. OHs mum used to smoke (she recently gave up, and is doing well) in her kitchen, and if I was round with the dogs, they weren't allowed in there with her... and I kept them out the room for a while after.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

This is something I strongly dislike too 

Neither myself or my husband smoke, but our son does and he always goes outside as to not smoke around his dogs.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't smoke and if any smokers come to the house they have to smoke outside, if nothing else the smell of stale smoke is disgusting. I don't think its fair for pets or children to be forced to breathe in poison but some smokers don't care.


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## IndysMamma (Jan 15, 2009)

my mum smokes in the office with door closed and window open but generally not in same room as me or any of the pets

mainly because the smoke triggers my allergies it has to be said - I cough really badly if she smokes near me and I *hate* the animals smelling of smoke...

but am really glad it affects me so bad as it protects my health and the pets - thankfully since moving my mum is smoking a lot less so fingers crossed she'll quit this year


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## Charleigh (Nov 9, 2012)

My mum smokes in the flat with me being asthmatic, my little puppy and two young cats. It really upsets me. Some days I can't go anywhere in the house without smelling it so I stay in my bedroom with teddy but then sometimes my neighbours smoke wafts in or even the yobos weed drifts in. I ended up on the balcony trying to get teddy to do a wee in tears as my upstairs neighbours were smoking and my mum was smoking and I literally couldn't take it anymore. 

I tell my mum to stop all the time but she doesn't listen. I try so hard for teddy not to be around her, I've even extended it to my mum can't touch teddy after smoking as it makes her smell. 

I feel like I'm failin for allowing her to do this. She always says she'll stop or the windows open so it doesn't matter. If I, at 19 stad at 6ft with a broad build can feel the effects then what do the animals feel? And I can't move out due to certain circumstances and technically one cat is my mums anyway. 

Sometimes I hide her cigarettes or try and break them. Immature but sometimes I feel so angry. 

Sorry to derail but I don't know what to do about this situation and it's nice to know others don't like it aswell.


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

Charleigh said:


> My mum smokes in the flat with me being asthmatic, my little puppy and two young cats. It really upsets me. Some days I can't go anywhere in the house without smelling it so I stay in my bedroom with teddy but then sometimes my neighbours smoke wafts in or even the yobos weed drifts in. I ended up on the balcony trying to get teddy to do a wee in tears as my upstairs neighbours were smoking and my mum was smoking and I literally couldn't take it anymore.
> 
> I tell my mum to stop all the time but she doesn't listen. I try so hard for teddy not to be around her, I've even extended it to my mum can't touch teddy after smoking as it makes her smell.
> 
> ...


Oh bless you how awful for you.


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

No smokers in our house or anyone who visits. But if anyone came who smoked they would have to go in the garden.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Me and OH smoke but only in the spare room with the window open. Have to say the cats are normally in that room with us but then they have a choice to move. The rest of the house doesnt smell of smoke thankfully (friends have thought we smoked outside as they couldnt smell anything. And i never smoke in the car if i have a non smoker with me or one of my pets. tbh id be more scared of ciggy coming back in the window and burning them.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Guilty as charged. I smoke in the house and have 2 dogs.*


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## terrierist (Sep 26, 2012)

Leam1307 said:


> Me and OH smoke but only in the spare room with the window open. Have to say the cats are normally in that room with us but then they have a choice to move.


But your cats are not aware of the dangers are they? So that statement is flawed. Sorry to come across as rude


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## sianrees1979 (Feb 27, 2009)

i don't smoke, never have but my sister does, she never smokes round the dogs and always smokes outside


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

I think those of us do smoke are all aware that it's a filthy habit and are aware of the health risks.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Twiggy said:


> I think those of us do smoke are all aware that it's a filthy habit and are aware of the health risks.


and choose to continue anyway...


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I've never smoked, not once. Our house is totally smoke free.

The funny thing is that when we pass someone in the street smoking Alfie can't stop sneezing and shaking his head!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

dandogman said:


> and choose to continue anyway...


*So is this an anti smoking thread, or about smoking around pets?*


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *So is this an anti smoking thread, or about smoking around pets?*


It is clearly an anti smoking around pets thread. I still don't understand how people say 'I know the risks', but still carry on around their pets (and others, but this is a thread about pets).


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

After not smoking for many years OH and I fell back into it when things got stressful. 

We NEVER smoke in the house. Only in the garden. Great for housetraining if you go outside every hour!


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

dandogman said:


> and choose to continue anyway...


i dont' think it's quite as simple as choosing Dan.

I smoked for many years, gave up last spring. One of the reasons I smoked was it was the only way I could get away from my desk for a break. working 14 hour days and eating while working. Smoking actually helped me maintain a level of sanity.

I always smoked outside, i never could stand sitting in a smoky room.

Oh to be young and still see the word in such clean cut terms.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

Has anyone ever seen Penn & Tellers Bulls**t? They did a show about passive smoking, apparently studies did not find passive smoking to be harmful and it was all drummed up by anti smoking crusaders.

Oh and the recycling one is very interesting too


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

dandogman said:


> It is clearly an anti smoking around pets thread. I still don't understand how people say 'I know the risks', but still carry on around their pets (and others, but this is a thread about pets).


That rather a high and mighty comment.

There are many forms of addiction and most addicts would prefer to stop.

You asked if any of us smoked and we gave you an honest answer so quite honestly don't need a lecture.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

hazel pritchard said:


> I smoke and to be honest i think the dogs get more fumes when out walking as their noses are often level with exhaust fumes from cars.


Of course the big mystery is how dogs and cats (and children) survived during all the years when everybody smoked in every place imaginable and people even believed that it was good for you.

I think too much is made of passive smoking nowadays and even though I have given it up six months now and really cannot stand the smell, I still think people get paranoid about it.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

I actually find the hormone disrupting ingredients found in household and cometic products of equal or greater concern and before anyone says but surely they don't effect anyone passively. I don't see many wild dolphins using toothpaste , let alone that which contains triclosan!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Twiggy said:


> I think those of us do smoke are all aware that it's a filthy habit and are aware of the health risks.


Maybe, but you still choose to inflict it on other people. My sister smells so badly of cigarettes when she has been out for a smoke I make her take a mint before she can come back in the house. The dogs just reek of it when she has looked after them and she smokes all over her guide dog 24/7



moonviolet said:


> i dont' think it's quite as simple as choosing Dan.
> 
> I smoked for many years, gave up last spring. One of the reasons I smoked was it was the only way I could get away from my desk for a break. working 14 hour days and eating while working. Smoking actually helped me maintain a level of sanity.
> 
> ...


I am old and can see no reason why anyone cannot give up smoking. It is a habit more than an addiction. My mother gave up smoking during all her pregnancies and could not wait to have her first cigarette to puff in her baby's face (as in those days there was no such thing as passive smoking once you were born) - how can you still have an addiction after 9 months, it is just a craving then which you do not have to give in to.
Some smokers seem to lose all reason. My mother was a very selfless person who always considered others first and would do anything for anyone - except where her cigarettes were concerned. eg Out with my friends and she asked if anyone minded her smoking. The person next to her said that actually she did because the last time she had been near cigarettes she had been in bed for 2 days. My mother's reply as she lit up ' Let me know if it is annoying you'.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I used to smoke cigarettes when I lived at home with my parents, but not in the house, just out socially for a drink. My aunt never smokes at work, or at other peoples' houses, so it is possible to choose when/where to smoke. Every now and then I smoke a cigar, in fact I had a big fat cuban over Christmas at a friend's house. Again, I choose if I want to smoke, it is possible to put off having a ***, or walk outside to prevent others, including pets, inhaling second hand smoke. 

On the rare occasion I do smoke, I don't smoke where other people who don't want to smoke are subjected to second hand fumes, and I wouldn't allow anyone to smoke in or near my house either, they have to close the door, or go in the garden away from the doors/windows. 

I think if you choose to smoke, it's up to you as an individual whether you subject another person or animal to your second hand smoke as well, there is always a choice.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dandogman said:


> and choose to continue anyway...


Most know the dangers of drinking too much or eating too much but carry on anyway. It is not a deliberate act, it is an addiction which is not that easy to give up. I have a very addictive personality, so thank the Lord I don't drink.



emmaviolet said:


> I've never smoked, not once. Our house is totally smoke free.
> 
> The funny thing is that when we pass someone in the street smoking Alfie can't stop sneezing and shaking his head!!


One of my pupils had a labrador like that. Whenever I would drop her off and stand by the car having a ***, the dog would come running out to see me then start sneezing!

I was talking to an old friend last night who gave up smoking some years ago along with her husband. She agreed with me that we could not even walk past someone who was smoking, but her husband actually follows them about trying to get a free blast! It takes everyone in different ways.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Simon Clark - Taking Liberties - Did Roy Castle smoke?

*Some interesting reading here.I remember Roy Castle, and if my memory serves me right it was after he got lung cancer, the passive smoking thing started.
Taken from the link above.*
"I will start off by saying that I do not believe SHS causes lung cancer (LC).

However the figures are worse than that. The incidence of LC in non smokers is 5.6 per 100,000 per year. The SCOTH Committe puts the risk at 25% to SHS exposure. Hence 80% of non smoking deaths from LC are not tobacco related.

Therefore 5.6/5 = 1.12

Basically taking ASH's figures there would be 1 death per 100,000 people from LC contracted from SHS a year out of a population of 60 million = 600 people.

3,000 people die on the roads so you are 5 times more likely to die crossing the road than you are from getting lung cancer from SHS.

I will say again because the aetiology (causation) of LC in non smokers is a different genetic mutation, few and more probably no one has died from LC from SHS inhalation.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> One of my pupils had a labrador like that. Whenever I would drop her off and stand by the car having a ***, the dog would come running out to see me then start sneezing!
> 
> I was talking to an old friend last night who gave up smoking some years ago along with her husband. She agreed with me that we could not even walk past someone who was smoking, but her husband actually follows them about trying to get a free blast! It takes everyone in different ways.


I think it is because he has never been in contact with any so it is a bit of a surprise when he does smell it!

My nan stopped smoking about 7 years ago and never has had one since and she always complains about the smell of it.

Personally I am not a fan of second hand smoke for myself. I have very bad asthma but mostly only with cigarette smoke, otherwise it is fine. When I have been around it it makes it very hard to take a deep breath into my chest and I can only manage shallow ones.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> Simon Clark - Taking Liberties - Did Roy Castle*smoke?
> 
> *Some interesting reading here.I remember Roy Castle, and if my memory serves me right it was after he got lung cancer, the passive smoking thing started.
> Taken from the link above.*
> ...


Now hands up who walks their dog across roads and be shamed!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> Simon Clark - Taking Liberties - Did Roy Castle*smoke?
> 
> *Some interesting reading here.I remember Roy Castle, and if my memory serves me right it was after he got lung cancer, the passive smoking thing started.
> Taken from the link above.*
> ...


No one had ever thought of passive smoking at all until Roy Castle declared that he must have got lung cancer from smokey nightclubs. Many non smokers have got lung cancer, but dear Roy started the paranoia. I was brought up with smoke everywhere I went as were other children my age and never suffered any ill effects from it. Steve McQueen smoked 100 cigarettes per day and died of lung cancer caused soley by working with asbestos before he because famous.

I am not saying we should carry on smoking everywhere. As I have discovered it is truly horrible for ex-smokers, though I am not sure about people who have never smoked. They don't seem to notice so much. I am just quite fed up with the argument that really has no proof.

I loved Roy Castle, a great entertainer and I feel for his family, but I think he, like many people who have had a bad deal, was looking for something to blame and found it.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LauraJane9 said:


> Now hands up who walks their dog across roads and be shamed!


There really is no comparison to be made there, now if you chained your dog to the centre of the road and watched it dodge the traffic, perhaps I'd agree. It's not like a pet has the choice of asking owners not to smoke, because they'd prefer not to inhale the second hand smoke.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

I have to admit I'm not too fussed about second hand smoke because I'd actually prefer it to some of the perfume and aftershave fumes I've had to endure, I hate being stuck next to someone that is OTT with the cheap stuff, I feel sick and can barely breathe, I'll take second hand smoke over that.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Blitz said:


> it is just a craving then which you do not have to give in to.


This is true. A teacher I was close to gave up smoking and they read a book on it. They said the need they get when needing a cigarette when stressed is the same anyone gets when stressed and a non smoker will not have one. They were successful in quitting after realising it was the same feeling all people get.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

LauraJane9 said:


> Now hands up who walks their dog across roads and be shamed!


Don't understand that.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Blitz said:


> Maybe, but you still choose to inflict it on other people. My sister smells so badly of cigarettes when she has been out for a smoke I make her take a mint before she can come back in the house. The dogs just reek of it when she has looked after them and she smokes all over her guide dog 24/7
> 
> I am old and can see no reason why anyone cannot give up smoking. It is a habit more than an addiction. My mother gave up smoking during all her pregnancies and could not wait to have her first cigarette to puff in her baby's face (as in those days there was no such thing as passive smoking once you were born) - how can you still have an addiction after 9 months, it is just a craving then which you do not have to give in to.
> Some smokers seem to lose all reason. My mother was a very selfless person who always considered others first and would do anything for anyone - except where her cigarettes were concerned. eg Out with my friends and she asked if anyone minded her smoking. The person next to her said that actually she did because the last time she had been near cigarettes she had been in bed for 2 days. My mother's reply as she lit up ' Let me know if it is annoying you'.


You can call it what you like and if you prefer to use the term 'habit' so be it.

So those of us that smoke shouldn't have replied to the original question or should we have lied?

None of us that indulge in smoking have tried to justify our 'habit'.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> There really is no comparison to be made there, now if you chained your dog to the centre of the road and watched it dodge the traffic, perhaps I'd agree. It's not like a pet has the choice of asking owners not to smoke, because they'd prefer not to inhale the second hand smoke.


There is nothing to actually agree with, it wasn't a genuine point.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

I used to smoke 20 a day for a number of years and quit from one day to the next. It can be done, if you really want to. It all comes down to willpower. Don't blame not being able to quit on being addicted, just be honest and say you have no willpower. 

I would be interested in PEER-REVIEWED studies about passive smoking and not a Daily Fail type article. God, some folk will believe anything if it happens to suit their already established beliefs.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Don't understand that.


In Janice's post, the bit about how you are more likely to die crossing a road than from passive smoking.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

emmaviolet said:


> This is true. A teacher I was close to gave up smoking and they read a book on it. They said the need they get when needing a cigarette when stressed is the same anyone gets when stressed and a non smoker will not have one. They were successful in quitting after realising it was the same feeling all people get.


*Sorry but that isn't true. *
Nicotine and withdrawal symptoms

Withdrawal symptoms and nicotine
A smoker's nervous system becomes accustomed to functioning with nicotine.
When you stop smoking, the reduced nicotine intake will disturb the balance of the central nervous system, causing withdrawal symptoms.
The most common withdrawal symptoms are:
cravings for tobacco
irritation
anger
increased appetite
weight gain
concentration problems
depression or low mood
tiredness
constipation
restlessness
insomnia
anxiety.
Fortunately, the majority of these symptoms tend to disappear after a few of weeks.
Some people may experience cravings, concentration problems and an increased appetite over a longer time period."


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

terencesmum said:


> I used to smoke 20 a day for a number of years and quit from one day to the next. It can be done, if you really want to. It all comes down to willpower. Don't blame not being able to quit on being addicted, just be honest and say you have no willpower.
> 
> I would be interested in PEER-REVIEWED studies about passive smoking and not a Daily Fail type article. God, some folk will believe anything if it happens to suit their already established beliefs.


But you can give up any addiction cold turkey if you have enough willpower, and if you need willpower to give something up then it is an addiction. My daughter gave up heroin cold turkey, not something most people could do without help, but she has tremendous willpower if she has enough incentive.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

terencesmum said:


> I used to smoke 20 a day for a number of years and quit from one day to the next. It can be done, if you really want to. It all comes down to willpower. Don't blame not being able to quit on being addicted, just be honest and say you have no willpower.
> 
> I would be interested in PEER-REVIEWED studies about passive smoking and not a Daily Fail type article. God, some folk will believe anything if it happens to suit their already established beliefs.


*But it IS an addiction. As for giving up, i did give up for 12 years. And i did it cold turkey. Now smoke 20 a day. If and when i choose to give up i will. But it won't be because of all the moaning that people do.
And let's not forget how much tax us smokers pay for our habbit.*


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> But you can give up any addiction cold turkey if you have enough willpower, and* if you need willpower to give something up then it is an addiction*. My daughter gave up heroin cold turkey, not something most people could do without help, but she has tremendous willpower if she has enough incentive.


Well, there are many things that it takes me real willpower to give up. My husband says I have too many shoes, for example. I am not addicted to shoes however. I don't NEED them, but I do like them. 
The point remains: if you really want to, you can give up smoking.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *But it IS an addiction. As for giving up, i did give up for 12 years. And i did it cold turkey. Now smoke 20 a day. If and when i choose to give up i will. But it won't be because of all the moaning that people do.
> And let's not forget how much tax us smokers pay for our habbit.*


Yes, and let's not forget how much smokers cost the NHS every year.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> Simon Clark - Taking Liberties - Did Roy Castle*smoke?
> 
> *Some interesting reading here.I remember Roy Castle, and if my memory serves me right it was after he got lung cancer, the passive smoking thing started.
> Taken from the link above.*
> ...


The bit I have put in bold makes no sense. Obviously 100 percent of non smoking deaths are not related to tobacco, how could it only be 80percent 



newfiesmum said:


> No one had ever thought of passive smoking at all until Roy Castle declared that he must have got lung cancer from smokey nightclubs. Many non smokers have got lung cancer, but dear Roy started the paranoia. I was brought up with smoke everywhere I went as were other children my age and never suffered any ill effects from it. Steve McQueen smoked 100 cigarettes per day and died of lung cancer caused soley by working with asbestos before he because famous.
> 
> I am not saying we should carry on smoking everywhere. As I have discovered it is truly horrible for ex-smokers,* though I am not sure about people who have never smoked. They don't seem to notice so much.* I am just quite fed up with the argument that really has no proof.
> 
> I loved Roy Castle, a great entertainer and I feel for his family, but I think he, like many people who have had a bad deal, was looking for something to blame and found it.


I have never smoked though I was brought up covered in cigarette smoke. I hate it with a vengeance. But do you know something, I could not care less about lung cancer, but what I do care about is feeling sick, having gritty eyes, a foul taste in my mouth for an hour or so every time a smoker is near me and having to wash my clothes and hair if I have been near anyone smoking. I once got a dvd recorder from a smokers house. I washed it, I sprayed it, I left it outside, but after a month I gave up and slung it out. 
Something that really annoys me is smokers in the street, especially the ones that do not want to breathe in their own foul stink so they put their hand behind their back and hold it at child or dog level so that everyone coming up behind them gets the stink instead.

I wonder if anyone has gathered that I am really really really anti smoking


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *But it IS an addiction. As for giving up, i did give up for 12 years. And i did it cold turkey. Now smoke 20 a day. If and when i choose to give up i will. But it won't be because of all the moaning that people do.
> And let's not forget how much tax us smokers pay for our habbit.*


Let's not forget how much tax is used paying for treatment for things like lung cancer, which the person has got from smoking...


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> I used to smoke 20 a day for a number of years and quit from one day to the next. It can be done, if you really want to. It all comes down to willpower. Don't blame not being able to quit on being addicted, just be honest and say you have no willpower.
> 
> I would be interested in PEER-REVIEWED studies about passive smoking and not a Daily Fail type article. God, some folk will believe anything if it happens to suit their already established beliefs.


I cannot be bothered to jump through hoops (putting links to articles etc) for an argument that I think has no genuine merit but I can say that if anyone has any genuine interest in the facts that you should consider watching Penn & Tellers Bull***t episode about passive smoking.

As for "already established beliefs" (eye roll gesture not condescending at all btw) I fully believed passive smoking was as dangerous as it's made out to be but then I was better informed.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

dandogman said:


> Let's not forget how much tax is used paying for treatment for things like lung cancer, which the person has got from smoking...


A lot more is spent on alcohol related diseases.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Sorry but that isn't true. *
> Nicotine and withdrawal symptoms
> 
> Withdrawal symptoms and nicotine
> ...


Im talking about the instant when a person needs one. It is the same stressful feeling we all have.
If a person hasn"t smoked for years it has nothing to do with an addiction and just a feeling of stress.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I gave up for 15 years. Wish to hell I hadn't started again, but there you go, I did. Part of it was where I keep my horse - everyone smokes on the yard, and if you had a stressful ride out come the ****. My husband had given up for longer - he went back to it too. 

I hate being a smoker, I hate smoke and would never smoke in my house or anyone else's. 

We know we have to give up, and would prefer not to smoke, but with work stresses how's not a good time as we'd be setting ourselves up to fail. 

Best I can do at the moment is to cut down - and if you're an outdoor smoker like me it's easy at the moment as its too blooming cold to stand outside for long. :001_smile:

Only thing that worries me is if I say to the OH 'do you want a ciggie?' Bess jumps up and runs to the door. I've even taken to saying that to her as she doesn't respond to any other phrase for going in the garden. Lucky we don't have many people around as I don't think they'd understand why I was asking the dog if she wants a cigarette!!

I wish I had never smoked, and its easy for a non smoker to say just give up. It's also easy for people who've given up to say, I did it, so can you! But to the latter I'd say, be careful. The addiction never quite goes away, and its all too easy to slip back. Even after many years. 

One last thing - I fail to understand why a non smoker starts this thread for any other reason than for it to end up smoker bashing! And I don't see the point in that! 

I doubt anyone who smokes nowadays is proud of their habit, and all will wish they can stop. But you do need to be mentally in the right place to do so. I know, because I've done it before. I'm just a long way from that place at the moment.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

terencesmum said:


> Yes, and let's not forget how much smokers cost the NHS every year.





dandogman said:


> Let's not forget how much tax is used paying for treatment for things like lung cancer, which the person has got from smoking...


*I'm sure you will find the tax covers the national costs. But if you can find the figures to prove differently, i would love to see them.
Oh just to add, my brother died of lung cancer 2 years ago.From the time of being told in the november, until he died in the febuary, the cost would have been very little as he spent all but his last 18 hours at home.*


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

LauraJane9 said:


> A lot more is spent on alcohol related diseases.


True but I choose to do neither. I do not smoke or drink, however the NHS pay for my treatment for smoke related illness even though I do not smoke. When my asthma is bad I need medical attention and the only thing that sets it off is smoke.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> Yes, and let's not forget how much smokers cost the NHS every year.


Obesity and alcoholism do they cost nothing? Why do smokers get all back lash when I'm sure more people are killed by drunk drivers than they are passive smoking.

This thread was never going to actually be about smoking around your dogs.


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## Bonsai (Jun 9, 2012)

I think it is disgusting to take away anyone's choice be it animal or human. If a person chooses to smoke they are aware of the dangers but don't breathe it on me or my home and certainly not on my dog

My husband used to be a full time smoker then while he was in Iraq a bomb went off near a warrior he was in blew a hole right next to his head. His sgt offered him a cigarette and it made him sick. Since then he only gets the urge to smoke when he's been drinking. Now he uses those water vapor electronic cigs but even when he did smoke when he had a drink it would always be outside and I would make him wash his face and hands before he went near me or the dog

Yes alcohol is just as bad but nobody is forcing there dog to ingest alcohol by drinking it inside


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## isipingo (Jan 12, 2013)

Never in the house!:001_smile:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Twiggy said:


> You can call it what you like and if you prefer to use the term 'habit' so be it.
> 
> So those of us that smoke shouldn't have replied to the original question or should we have lied?
> 
> None of us that indulge in smoking have tried to justify our 'habit'.


I think there are plenty of pet owners who smoke, who are honest with themselves about what they do. I'm sure there are some pet owners who minimise the exposure their pets get, but there are probably those who don't for whatever reason. I'd prefer people answering honestly than trying to justify what they do because their smoking props up the economy with tax payments, and claims that second hand smoke isn't harmful in any case.



LauraJane9 said:


> There is nothing to actually agree with, it wasn't a genuine point.


I wasn't agreeing with anything, your post was trying to compare road deaths to smoking, the two really aren't comparable.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I think there are plenty of pet owners who smoke, who are honest with themselves about what they do. I'm sure there are some pet owners who minimise the exposure their pets get, but there are probably those who don't for whatever reason. I'd prefer people answering honestly than trying to justify what they do because their smoking props up the economy with tax payments, and claims that second hand smoke isn't harmful in any case.
> 
> I wasn't agreeing with anything, your post was trying to compare road deaths to smoking, the two really aren't comparable.


No I actually wasn't trying to compare, I was making a ridiculous and far fetched point to try and put things in perspective.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I think there are plenty of pet owners who smoke, who are honest with themselves about what they do. I'm sure there are some pet owners who minimise the exposure their pets get, but there are probably those who don't for whatever reason. I'd prefer people answering honestly than trying to justify what they do because their smoking props up the economy with tax payments, and claims that second hand smoke isn't harmful in any case.
> 
> *Why would you think that anyone is trying to justify what they do? I sure as hell don't try and justify my actions.
> The last time i looked up the figures, the amount of tax paid by smokers was higher than the NHS costs for smoke related illnesses.
> ...


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I have yet to share my wine with my dogs, although Indie did nick some spilt stella as a youngster, and Zasa nicked the dregs of wine out of a friend's glass. 

I also have yet to subject my dogs to being obese, and fill their diet with junk food. 

Alcoholism and obesity may cost the NHS just as much/more, but I doubt if anyone would think it's acceptable to subject your pets to alcoholism or obesity, for some reason it's deemed acceptable to share second hand smoke with them because *we* are addicted.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I have yet to share my wine with my dogs, although Indie did nick some spilt stella as a youngster, and Zasa nicked the dregs of wine out of a friend's glass.
> 
> I also have yet to subject my dogs to being obese, and fill their diet with junk food.
> 
> Alcoholism and obesity may cost the NHS just as much/more, but I doubt if anyone would think it's acceptable to subject your pets to alcoholism or obesity, for some reason it's deemed acceptable to share second hand smoke with them because *we* are addicted.


I think the whole second hand smoke argument is a little pointless when some people believe it is harmful and some believe it isn't, I'm part of the latter group and that is because I believe I have seen real evidence.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Tax revenue from tobacco » Tobacco Manufacturers&#039; Association

Figures for 2011/12 12.1 billion

*Just trying to find what it costs the NHS*


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

BessieDog said:


> I gave up for 15 years. Wish to hell I hadn't started again, but there you go, I did. Part of it was where I keep my horse - everyone smokes on the yard, and if you had a stressful ride out come the ****. My husband had given up for longer - he went back to it too.
> 
> I hate being a smoker, I hate smoke and would never smoke in my house or anyone else's.
> 
> ...


That clearly was not the intention of this thread at all... It has turned into 'smoker bashing' as you put it, but not by me... It was just see why people find it acceptable because it makes NO sense to me at all.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

dandogman said:


> That clearly was not the intention of this thread at all... It has turned into 'smoker bashing' as you put it, but not by me... It was just see why people find it acceptable because it makes NO sense to me at all.


I've seen a little stirring, and this thread was never going to be anything but smoker bashing, isn't that obvious?

And why no response to the claims that passive smoking isn't as harmful as they say?

Like I said this thread is pointless, we are in two groups that hold different beliefs, we may as well be arguing religion.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Twiggy said:


> I think those of us do smoke are all aware that it's a filthy habit and are aware of the health risks.





dandogman said:


> and choose to continue anyway...





dandogman said:


> That clearly was not the intention of this thread at all... It has turned into 'smoker bashing' as you put it, but not by me... It was just see why people find it acceptable because it makes NO sense to me at all.


*It turned into an anti smoking thread when you made the comment above, to Twiggy.*


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## Sezzastar (Oct 2, 2012)

:frown2: No no no nooo I would never ever have anyone smoke in my house or near my dogs. And thats from an ex smoker of over ten years!


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## Dober (Jan 2, 2012)

I smoked during a very stressful breakup a few year ago, but quit after and it was not easy even when I'd only been smoking a year or so.

I think it's up to people what they spend their money on and do in their own house, and we can all have our own opinions just like with food, vet care, traveling ect.

Personally, I would never smoke indoors, it makes the house smell as is awful for guests coming in. I used to work as a photographers and pre-smoking it made me feel absolutely sick going to meet them in their homes. I don't think the health implications are over exaggerated from smoking and passive smoking, I would never subject a friend or child to passive smoking and I would never subject a pet to it either.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *But it IS an addiction. As for giving up, i did give up for 12 years. And i did it cold turkey. Now smoke 20 a day. If and when i choose to give up i will. But it won't be because of all the moaning that people do.
> And let's not forget how much tax us smokers pay for our habbit.*


When I smoked, if someone moaned or told me how bad it was, I would go off an light a cigarette just to be difficult. If you are anything like me, you are more like to smoke if people nag you than if they don't.



Blitz said:


> I have never smoked though I was brought up covered in cigarette smoke. I hate it with a vengeance. But do you know something, I could not care less about lung cancer, but what I do care about is feeling sick, having gritty eyes, a foul taste in my mouth for an hour or so every time a smoker is near me and having to wash my clothes and hair if I have been near anyone smoking. I once got a dvd recorder from a smokers house. I washed it, I sprayed it, I left it outside, but after a month I gave up and slung it out.
> Something that really annoys me is smokers in the street, especially the ones that do not want to breathe in their own foul stink so they put their hand behind their back and hold it at child or dog level so that everyone coming up behind them gets the stink instead.
> 
> I wonder if anyone has gathered that I am really really really anti smoking


I think they hold it behind their backs because they are trying to hide it not because they don't want to smell it. Some are easily shamed by strangers' opinions, I was never one of those.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *It turned into an anti smoking thread when you made the comment above, to Twiggy.*


Disagree, I was referring to you animals breathing in second hand smoke which in my opinion is cruelty. This is not 'smoker bashing'.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

LauraJane9 said:


> I've seen a little stirring, and this thread was never going to be anything but smoker bashing, isn't that obvious?
> 
> And why no response to the claims that passive smoking isn't as harmful as they say?
> 
> Like I said this thread is pointless, we are in two groups that hold different beliefs, we may as well be arguing religion.


Well I disagree, I wanted genuine opinions, not to start 'smoker bashing'.


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## Murphy101 (Nov 26, 2012)

I smoke a lot but dont smoke in the house mainly because I keep rats and they have a very delicate respiratory system. Murphy often joins me outside on my smoke breaks.

The argument about passive smoking can go on forever, I'm undecided.

Steve


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

Steve makes a good point, it really could go on forever.

Even the experts seem undecided and with tobacco companies and hard core anti smoking crusaders both trying to sabotage real findings there is no clear answer.

It seems as though passive smoking is at the very least significantly less dangerous than first hand smoke but medical authorities and tobacco companies have a different definition of 'significant'.

With authorities still battling it out it seems silly for us lot to start bickering.

If in doubt just don't risk it.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Well this thread contains some of the most smug replies I've had the misfortune to read in a long time. 

It was perfectly obvious that it would turn into a smoker bashing thread  The replies that said "yes I smoke but never around my pets" were never going to get the same responses as the "yes I smoke all over the house and around my pets; in fact we often go 'twos'" ones.

And as for the "how much do smokers cost the NHS?" argument. HA! Don't make me laugh. The tax (on cigarettes) that smokers pay more than outweighs those costs. What sort of extra taxes do the massively obese or the alcoholics/drug addicts pay? None, but apart from maybe the drug addicts none are so vilified as the smoker.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Well I disagree, I wanted genuine opinions, not to start 'smoker bashing'.


Genuine opinions on what exactly? Whether smoking around animals is acceptable or not? I'm sure most of us agree it isn't.

YOU turned this into a smoker bashing thread with your condescending reply and eye-rolling a few pages back.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Apparently going outside to smoke makes no difference to the effect passive smoking has on children and pets as a lot of the carcinogens stick to your clothes and skin and are passed onto children and pets through contact when you go back inside the house. Personally I don't know how anyone can claim to love a child or pet and then knowingly do something that may put their future health at risk. Call it smoker bashing but in my mind f you knowingly put the health of your loved ones at risk it is a type of abuse.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cbrookman said:


> Apparently going outside to smoke makes no difference to the effect passive smoking has on children and pets as a lot of the carcinogens stick to your clothes and skin and are passed onto children and pets through contact when you go back inside the house. Personally I don't know how anyone can claim to love a child or pet and then knowingly do something that may put their future health at risk. Call it smoker bashing but in my mind f you knowingly put the health of your loved ones at risk it is a type of abuse.


And once again I ask: How the hell did I, and all my contemporaries and their pets, survive the fifties with all that smoke in buses, trains, cinemas, dancehalls, in the home and everywhere else. They even gave us ashtrays when I was in hospital having a miscarriage!

By rights we should all be dead.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> And once again I ask: How the hell did I, and all my contemporaries and their pets, survive the fifties with all that smoke in buses, trains, cinemas, dancehalls, in the home and everywhere else. They even gave us ashtrays when I was in hospital having a miscarriage!
> 
> By rights we should all be dead.


*And just to add, did you know that when smoking was allowed on airplanes the air was much healthier? *


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

I don't smoke because I am too tight to spend money on it so have never been tempted - I am from Yorkshire after all  so I don't have much to contribute to this thread.

That said - I pay a lot of tax, and actually, I don't think too hard about the breakdown of what it pays for. I'm happy to live somewhere with free medical care for all - and if that means helping people who over time have damaged themselves, then so be it. In the grand scheme of things, it's a small price to pay for the peace of mind of all of us to know that if we need a doctor, we can just go to one. People have accidents doing dangerous stuff by choice, we make ourselves fat and unhealthy with a variety of lifestyle choices, nobody's perfect


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *And just to add, did you know that when smoking was allowed on airplanes the air was much healthier? *


I have to admit I never did like smoke on aeroplanes, too cramped. We used to sit one or two people in the smoking end and the rest in the front end, then we could swap over if we wanted a ***!

I had a horrendous journey to LA, 11 hours without a *** and they confiscated my lighter when I boarded. Nowhere to buy one when we landed of course, no matches either and even the hire car had a dummy one! I am rather pleased to know that when I eventually get to visit my girl in Australia it won't be such an arduous journey!


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## LahLahsDogs (Jul 4, 2012)

Neither me or my OH smoke, but some of his friends do. They used to smoke in the house when they came over, partly because I was too soft to tell them I didn't like it, and also because we didn't have the pets around (we only had cats at the time which one was outside alot, and the other was upstairs). We then got a baby tortoise and had her in a tortoise table in the living room. At that point I had the balls to say "no more smoking in the house.. outside or not at all!" as I didn't want Stewie breathing it in. Since then there has been no smoking in the house and anyone who does smoke has to go outside.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Whether or not passive smoking is harmful, I am so pleased people cannot smoke in pubs, restaurants, planes tec anymore. I used to hate coming home with my hair and clothes stinking. And that's from a smoker!


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> No one had ever thought of passive smoking at all until Roy Castle declared that he must have got lung cancer from smokey nightclubs. Many non smokers have got lung cancer, but dear Roy started the paranoia. I was brought up with smoke everywhere I went as were other children my age and never suffered any ill effects from it. *Steve McQueen smoked 100 cigarettes per day and died of lung cancer caused soley by working with asbestos before he because famous.*
> 
> I am not saying we should carry on smoking everywhere. As I have discovered it is truly horrible for ex-smokers, though I am not sure about people who have never smoked. They don't seem to notice so much. I am just quite fed up with the argument that really has no proof.
> 
> I loved Roy Castle, a great entertainer and I feel for his family, but I think he, like many people who have had a bad deal, was looking for something to blame and found it.


Just wanted to pick up on this point. Steve McQueen may have died directly from asbestosis but it would have been greatly spurred on by the fact he smoked 100 **** a day, his lungs were already compromised. So I would argue that his death wasn't caused _solely_ by asbestos exposure.

I dont smoke, my parents dont smoke, my friends dont smoke so my dogs have never been around cigarettes.

I used to work in a supermarket years ago and one day I was working early morning on the kiosk. A lady nipped in with her children before school started to buy them their packed lunch. When she got to the checkout she also asked for her cigarettes. It turned out she didnt have enough money for everything she wanted to purchase so she chose to remove some of the items for her childrens lunch and keep her **** instead. If people want to smoke, thats their prerogative but I cannot abide selfish smokers such as the lady i've just described. I was dumbfounded and still am to this day, it's an incident I will always remember (this was to go with Blitz story about her mother).


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Just going back to the op. I don't care if people smoke..aslong as its not around me or my dogs. 

Dogs in a smokers house don't have a choice..so I find it not only pathetic but selfish and neglectful in regards to the animals welfare.

Humans can choose to move as they know the possible risks, animals do not.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I smoke, as does my OH. Kes does not like the smoke so doesn't come near us when we smoke. Am I too worried about the whole passive smoking thing? Nah. I'm sure some people would vehemently disagree, but I don't really care.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

AlexArt said:


> I've seen dogs and cats with lung cancer due to passive smoking - I guess if someone cares so little about their own health to smoke then I very much doubt they'd give a second thought about their pet smoking half of what they do and being smaller it's like smoking 10 at once!!!
> I saw a cat dissection once and it came from a smokers house, it was killed by a car I think, but it stank of cigarettes for starters and it's fur was yellow where it should have been white, it's lungs looked like it smoked 100 a day - the poor cat!!


Who says our dogs are necessarily much smaller? :lol:


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

5rivers79 said:


> Just going back to the op. I don't care if people smoke..aslong as its not around me or my dogs.
> 
> Dogs in a smokers house don't have a choice..so I find it not only pathetic but selfish and neglectful in regards to the animals welfare.
> 
> Humans can choose to move as they know the possible risks, animals do not.


But to all those that make comments like yours ,do they never walk their dogs along the streets where they breath in exhaust fumes, or cat owners do you stop your cats going out for that same reason?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> I used to smoke 20 a day for a number of years and quit from one day to the next. It can be done, if you really want to. It all comes down to willpower. Don't blame not being able to quit on being addicted, just be honest and say you have no willpower.
> 
> I would be interested in PEER-REVIEWED studies about passive smoking and not a Daily Fail type article. God, some folk will believe anything if it happens to suit their already established beliefs.


I think it's an individual thing TM, not everyone can just give up cold turkey. Some heroin addicts (which is the same level of addiction as nicotine) can just cold turkey, but most cannot. Most need help. And most need to be in a situation where they're able to stop. Yes it can be done, but not with everyone


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

As long as people don't inflinct their smoking on me and mine I'm not bothered what they do. I do my best not to end up costing the NHS money by inflicting long term damage to myself but at the same time I enjoy running around on mountains and riding horses so am probably going to come a cropper one day and cost the tax-payer a few bob that way.

I remain convinced that passive smoking is dangerous - several unbiased meta-analyses have come to this conclusion and evidence to the contrary was tabacco industry funded and cherry picked studies were pushed forward for wider publication.

I have never smoked and never given up smoking so I can't judge those who struggle to give up. I have only ever had pschological addictions (to things like the internet :lol and it is hard enough to give up/cut down doing stuff even without any physical withdrawal symptoms to deal with too.

I do however get very cross with people who inflict their habit on other people. But I get cross with dangerous drivers and out of control drunks that affect my safety and comfort as well.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> I smoke, as does my OH. Kes does not like the smoke so doesn't come near us when we smoke. Am I too worried about the whole passive smoking thing? Nah. I'm sure some people would vehemently disagree, *but I don't really care*.


That's the attitude that I don't agree with. Your not worried about passive smoking because you are a smoker. Animals don't understand the possible risks however slim those risks may be.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> But to all those that make comments like yours ,do they never walk their dogs along the streets where they breath in exhaust fumes, or cat owners do you stop your cats going out for that same reason?


I am anti smoking and it's very rare I walk my dogs near traffic. If we do pavement walking at all, we avoid busy roads and stick to quiet back roads, purely because the collies do not like traffic. So no, they generally do not come into contact with exhaust fumes either.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> But to all those that make comments like yours ,do they never walk their dogs along the streets where they breath in exhaust fumes, or cat owners do you stop your cats going out for that same reason?


Sorry but car fumes are dispersed of rather quickly as you are out in the open. Cigarette smoke is confined to a room most of the time with the door probably shut in most cases.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> That's the attitude that I don't agree with. Your not worried about passive smoking because you are a smoker. Animals don't understand the possible risks however slim those risks may be.


I mean I don't really care about your opinion on my own personal actions in my own personal house with my own dogs thank you very much 

Everything in life is risk. Now if you bring me evidence that my actions WILL have a quantifiable risk on my pet I would rethink it, however I've yet to see compelling evidence. And I agree with others who mention car exhaust fumes, but nobody seems to think they should stop driving now, do they?


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> I mean I don't really care about your opinion on my own personal actions in my own personal house with my own dogs thank you very much
> 
> Everything in life is risk. Now if you bring me evidence that my actions WILL have a quantifiable risk on my pet I would rethink it, however I've yet to see compelling evidence. And I agree with others who mention car exhaust fumes, but nobody seems to think they should stop driving now, do they?


There is an actual warning in bold font on the box.

Now for quantifiable evidence..I'd prefer to choose common sense and go along the lines that the smoke you exhale still contains the same toxins that it did when you inhaled it.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> There is an actual warning in bold font on the box.
> 
> Now for quantifiable evidence..I'd prefer to choose common sense and go along the lines that the smoke you exhale still contains the same toxins that it did when you inhaled it.


Ahhh, you must be one of those people who believe everything you read. I prefer to think critically. However I've yet to see a 'bold font warning' which reads 'SMOKING HARMS YOUR PETS'

Common sense to me saying that actually many people used to smoke, that number is decreasing, however the amount of people driving cars and cars on the road is going up and up. But some people don't like to think about all that I suppose.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

If smoking harms humans, surely it's common sense to conclude it will harm other mammals? I can't see how pets would be immune 

I think if you walk your dogs down the road there's a huge difference, dogs need exercise and stimulation, walking is necessary. Smoking isn't, which ever way you look at it, smoking is the choice of a person or persons, it's not the choice of the pet.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> If smoking harms humans, surely it's common sense to conclude it will harm other mammals? I can't see how pets would be immune
> 
> I think if you walk your dogs down the road there's a huge difference, dogs need exercise and stimulation, walking is necessary. Smoking isn't, which ever way you look at it, smoking is the choice of a person or persons, it's not the choice of the pet.


The extent of the harm is very much debatable. Most sources for passive smoking are from people who were in environments where hundreds of people smoked all day long. Thankfully I don't have hundreds of people in my house lighting up.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

5rivers79 said:


> Sorry but car fumes are dispersed of rather quickly as you are out in the open. * Cigarette smoke is confined to a room most of the time with the door probably shut in most cases*.


That's an awful big assumption.

As a non smoker I'm wondering where on earth you came up with that from? 

Every single smoker I know smokes either outside, or at the back door or at least with a window open. Not ONE of them is confined to one room, with all doors and windows closed, frantically chain smoking as many as they can...


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I think it is ridiculous to compare car fumes to cigarette smoke (in the context we are discussing)... Firstly, one is in the open and the other is confined to a relatively small space. Secondly, one is avoidable and the other is not. I don't WANT to walk my dogs by traffic that are producing fumes (and potentially harming them, no matter how large or small the risk), but I sometimes have no choice... Except to keep them locked in the house, but then that to me is neglect. I cannot tell people to not drive their cars near me... I can however chose whether or not to smoke around them, and I won't allow others to smoke around them either. They just are not comparable IMO. 

OHs mum has given up smoking, and is doing well just now... she would agree that it is habit and not addiction. She quit a few years ago, but she swapped **** with chocolate peanuts because she likes to have something with her cuppa... She then put on weight, so went back to ****. She has now given up again, and is having little problems with the lack of ****... it is finding something else to have during her cuppa she is struggling with.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I've got friends who smoke in their house, windows closed, because it's not warm enough to have them open, and sit in pretty much one room. When I come back from their house I reek of cigarette smoke, and they have a dog, and have friends with dogs that go round there. Not every smoker goes outside or has all their windows open either


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

lozzibear said:


> I think it is ridiculous to compare car fumes to cigarette smoke (in the context we are discussing)... Firstly, one is in the open and the other is confined to a relatively small space. Secondly, one is avoidable and the other is not. I don't WANT to walk my dogs by traffic that are producing fumes (and potentially harming them, no matter how large or small the risk), but I sometimes have no choice... Except to keep them locked in the house, but then that to me is neglect. I cannot tell people to not drive their cars near me... I can however chose whether or not to smoke around them, and I won't allow others to smoke around them either. They just are not comparable IMO.
> 
> OHs mum has given up smoking, and is doing well just now... she would agree that it is habit and not addiction. She quit a few years ago, but she swapped **** with chocolate peanuts because she likes to have something with her cuppa... She then put on weight, so went back to ****. She has now given up again, and is having little problems with the lack of ****... it is finding something else to have during her cuppa she is struggling with.


Scientifically 5 cigarette a day is the addiction, everything else is the habit. Nicotine clears the system after 24 hours. The rest is psychological rather than physical addiction. What too many people don't appreciate is that psychological addictions are a million times more addicting than physical addictions.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I've got friends who smoke in their house, windows closed, because it's not warm enough to have them open, and sit in pretty much one room. When I come back from their house I reek of cigarette smoke, and they have a dog, and have friends with dogs that go round there. Not every smoker goes outside or has all their windows open either


True, true!

I'd still say than more smokers go outside or at least stand at their back door than smoke in the house, especially the main living room. In my experience anyway


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

I don't smoke, Oh doesn't smoke and anyone who comes into our house isn't allowed to smoke, our flat is rather small and i have asthma so it's a huge no. Anyone who wants to smoke has to do it outside.

both my parents smoked when i was a child, they have now both stopped but as far back as i can remember they always smoked outside, away from us and the dog.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Coffee said:


> True, true!
> 
> I'd still say than more smokers go outside or at least stand at their back door than smoke in the house, especially the main living room. In my experience anyway


When the stepkids are here I smoke in the bedroom with the windows open or out back. If a non smoker comes round I don't mind not smoking, it's not much of a sacrifice, but full time I'll do as I please unless there's a good reason not to.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Coffee said:


> True, true!
> 
> I'd still say than more smokers go outside or at least stand at their back door than smoke in the house, especially the main living room. In my experience anyway


If you stand at the back door and smoke, in my experience, it just goes straight back in the house, my brother has done this for years at his and our parents house, drives me up the wall! Why he can't stand a few metres away so the smoke disperses rather than blowing straight back in the house is beyond me, he might as well smoke indoors!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> If you stand at the back door and smoke, in my experience, it just goes straight back in the house, my brother has done this for years at his and our parents house, drives me up the wall! Why he can't stand a few metres away so the smoke disperses rather than blowing straight back in the house is beyond me, he might as well smoke indoors!


Ah, the sods law wind effect with smoking  If I go outside the wind will invariably direct towards a window. :lol: However, sending out a smoke signal for a bus is an advantage. When you get to the point where you think 'frigit, bus is late' and light up, the bus will turn up within a minute.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Ahhh, you must be one of those people who believe everything you read. I prefer to think critically. However I've yet to see a 'bold font warning' which reads 'SMOKING HARMS YOUR PETS'
> 
> Common sense to me saying that actually many people used to smoke, that number is decreasing, however the amount of people driving cars and cars on the road is going up and up. But some people don't like to think about all that I suppose.


Yup i also read cyanide is extremely poisonous 

Vehicular travel is unfortunately a necessity in todays society. A country's infrastructure relies on it from simple things like delivering the milk from the farm to your door or getting rid of human waste. Stop all that and you'd have to grow your own food and would probably have a landfill close by... you certainly wouldnt be able to easily source your cigarettes.

As for my massive assumption regarding smoking in a confined space with doors shut..i did say *probably*. I also dont think many people like to keep their doors and windows open in the winter months or stand outside when its pissin it down


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> When the stepkids are here I smoke in the bedroom with the windows open or out back. If a non smoker comes round I don't mind not smoking, it's not much of a sacrifice, but full time I'll do as I please unless there's a good reason not to.


The only time I smoke in the kitchen, in the warmth and comfort is last thing at night when everyone is in bed (including Alfie... in another room!)... I really enjoy that cigarette :lol: (I still have the windows open though )


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> Yup i also read cyanide is extremely poisonous
> 
> Vehicular travel is unfortunately a necessity in todays society. A country's infrastructure relies on it from simple things like delivering the milk from the farm to your door or getting rid of human waste. Stop all that and you'd have to grow your own food and would probably have a landfill close by... you certainly wouldnt be able to easily source your cigarettes.
> 
> As for my massive assumption regarding smoking in a confined space with doors shut..i did say *probably*. I also dont think many people like to keep their doors and windows open in the winter months or stand outside when its pissin it down


You deliver milk and then go on your round as a bin man then? I know plenty of people who survive without cars.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Coffee said:


> The only time I smoke in the kitchen, in the warmth and comfort is last thing at night when everyone is in bed (including Alfie... in another room!)... I really enjoy that cigarette :lol: (I still have the windows open though )


In my younger days I used to love smoking in the kitchen while I cooked.  But then my house was reminiscent of the particularly manic episodes of The Young Ones at the time :lol:


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

For those of you who do smoke around your dogs, would you alter your behavior if your dogs showed signs of it bothering them? For example, if the dog had kennel cough and it got worse and turned in to pneumonia in part because of the smoking? (I don't know that this would actually happen, just using it as a hypothetical.)

The reason I ask, is because when our preemie children were born, we were warned profusely about not smoking around them or allowing others to do so. Not a problem for us, we're non-smokers and don't allow smoking in the house anyway. But it is apparently surprisingly common for preemies to end up back in the hospital with respiratory issues exacerbated by their fact that their caretakers refuse to stop smoking around them.

So it makes me wonder what would it take for someone to alter their behavior for their pets.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> apparently going outside to smoke makes no difference to the effect passive smoking has on children and pets as a lot of the carcinogens stick to your clothes and skin and are passed onto children and pets through contact when you go back inside the house. Personally i don't know how anyone can claim to love a child or pet and then knowingly do something that may put their future health at risk. Call it smoker bashing but in my mind f you knowingly put the health of your loved ones at risk it is a type of abuse.


*this exactly! *


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> *For those of you who do smoke around your dogs, would you alter your behavior if your dogs showed signs of it bothering them? For example, if the dog had kennel cough and it got worse and turned in to pneumonia in part because of the smoking? (I don't know that this would actually happen, just using it as a hypothetical.)*
> 
> The reason I ask, is because when our preemie children were born, we were warned profusely about not smoking around them or allowing others to do so. Not a problem for us, we're non-smokers and don't allow smoking in the house anyway. But it is apparently surprisingly common for preemies to end up back in the hospital with respiratory issues exacerbated by their fact that their caretakers refuse to stop smoking around them.
> 
> So it makes me wonder what would it take for someone to alter their behavior for their pets.


Yes!

What it would take for me to alter my behaviour I believe I already mentioned: Real proof, which I don't believe exists. I don't see many studies out there about the effect of car fumes or rates of asthma in children who live within range of plants that burn rubbish (the name escapes me right now), however I know for a fact myself that being in such an industrial environment causes higher rates of asthma than average.

The reason nobody cares about car fumes is they're too attached to cars, and I'll hold my hand up to myself being one of them. It's much easier to hate on things which you don't see a problem in giving up or compromising about.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Ah, the sods law wind effect with smoking  If I go outside the wind will invariably direct towards a window. :lol: However, sending out a smoke signal for a bus is an advantage. When you get to the point where you think 'frigit, bus is late' and light up, the bus will turn up within a minute.


Erm try opening a window or door..the air will always be pulled inside..i think its called a draft sometimes 

Drive with a car window open..causes drag..why?? Because air is being pulled into the car.

So Sleeping Lion's point stands 

I just dont get why the defensiveness over something that is not a necessity and which *POSSIBLY* could be harmful to you and your pets.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> Erm try opening a window or door..the air will always be pulled inside..i think its called a draft sometimes
> 
> Drive with a car window open..causes drag..why?? Because air is being pulled into the car.
> 
> ...


Why are you defensive about a possibility, more to the point?

Your car is not a necessity. Neither is your electricity or your lighting. But I bet you want them.

Perhaps those with little or no experience shouldn't comment on things they don't really know much about. I know I try not to.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Yes!
> 
> What it would take for me to alter my behaviour I believe I already mentioned: Real proof, which I don't believe exists. I don't see many studies out there about the effect of car fumes or rates of asthma in children who live within range of plants that burn rubbish (the name escapes me right now), however I know for a fact myself that being in such an industrial environment causes higher rates of asthma than average.
> 
> The reason nobody cares about car fumes is they're too attached to cars, and I'll hold my hand up to myself being one of them. It's much easier to hate on things which you don't see a problem in giving up or compromising about.


Good idea! wait for it to become a problem before doing something about it!

I know... feed your kids chips and chicken nuggets everyday... then when it effects them, stop...


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> You deliver milk and then go on your round as a bin man then? *I know plenty of people who survive without cars*.


Nah i rely on transport to do it for me..that was my point. Your friends that dont drive wouldnt get far without public transport and they wouldnt get much to eat or wear without the transport that supplies the shops.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

dandogman said:


> Good idea! wait for it to become a problem before doing something about it!
> 
> I know... feed your kids chips and chicken nuggets everyday... then when it effects them, stop...


:lol:

Feeding your kids chicken and chips every day WILL have an effect on them. Scientifically and factually.

Smoking in my house does not scientifically or factually definitely have any sort of effect on my dog, unless you can prove otherwise? Or perhaps you would just like to be inflammatory, roll your eyes and present nothing of substance as has been seen throughout the entire thread?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> Nah i rely on transport to do it for me..that was my point. Your friends that dont drive wouldnt get far without public transport and they wouldnt get much to eat or wear without the transport that supplies the shops.


Gosh, I better inform them all that their bicycles are imaginary!


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> :lol:
> 
> Feeding your kids chicken and chips every day WILL have an effect on them. Scientifically and factually.
> 
> Smoking in my house does not scientifically or factually definitely have any sort of effect on my dog, unless you can prove otherwise? Or perhaps you would just like to be inflammatory, roll your eyes and present nothing of substance as has been seen throughout the entire thread?


Medscape: Medscape Access


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

dandogman said:


> Medscape: Medscape Access


Sticking with the rolling eyes then?

I fail to see a link to a medical article that requires a doctorate log in is of much help


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Why are you defensive about a possibility, more to the point?
> 
> Your car is not a necessity. Neither is your electricity or your lighting. But I bet you want them.
> 
> Perhaps those with little or no experience shouldn't comment on things they don't really know much about. I know I try not to.


Like i said i dont care what you do in your spare time. As an animal lover i care how peoples bad habits affect their pets.

What would it take for you to stop smoking around your animals? A conclusive scientific study or a visit to the vet with an animal with some kind of respiratory problem?

Electricity is extremely important in these northern countries..its required for energy and heating amongst other things. I think you would find without it many people would perish in the cold months. Some already do because they cant afford their fuel bills so keep the heating off.

Prevention is always better than cure.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Yes!
> 
> What it would take for me to alter my behaviour I believe I already mentioned: Real proof, which I don't believe exists. I don't see many studies out there about the effect of car fumes or rates of asthma in children who live within range of plants that burn rubbish (the name escapes me right now), however I know for a fact myself that being in such an industrial environment causes higher rates of asthma than average.
> 
> The reason nobody cares about car fumes is they're too attached to cars, and I'll hold my hand up to myself being one of them. It's much easier to hate on things which you don't see a problem in giving up or compromising about.





dandogman said:


> Good idea! wait for it to become a problem before doing something about it!
> 
> I know... feed your kids chips and chicken nuggets everyday... then when it effects them, stop...


1. It really isn't ANY of your business what Phoolf does in her OWN house with her OWN dog.  I thought this thread was "to get others' opinions", not to be rude and patronising.

2. The fact that you are still a child makes your rudeness worse. Sorry, but it does.

3. If you don't stop rolling your eyes at everything you are in severe danger of them rolling right away and you losing them.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> Smoking in my house does not scientifically or factually definitely have any sort of effect on my dog, unless you can prove otherwise?


Secondhand Smoke Is A Health Threat To Pets



> "A recent study conducted at Colorado State University shows that there is a higher incidence of nasal tumors in dogs living in a home with secondhand smoke compared to dogs living in a smoke free environment," she said. "The increased incidence was specifically found among the long nosed breed of dogs. Shorter or medium nosed dogs showed higher rates for lung cancer."
> MacAllister said the longer nosed breeds of dogs have a great surface area in their noses that is exposed to the carcinogens. This also provides more area in which the carcinogens can accumulate. The carcinogens tend to build up on the mucous membranes of long nosed dogs so not as much reaches the lungs.
> Unfortunately, dogs affected with nasal cancer normally do not survive more than one year.
> "The reason short and medium nose dogs have a higher occurrence of lung cancer is because their shorter nasal passages aren't as effective at accumulating the inhaled secondhand smoke carcinogens," she said. "This results in more carcinogens reaching the lungs."


Edit:
I'm not telling you what you need to do or not do in your home. Everything carries a risk, risk assessment is about making educated choices. There are links to the research in the full article linked above.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Coffee said:


> 1. It really isn't ANY of your business what Phoolf does in her OWN house with her OWN dog.  I thought this thread was "to get others' opinions", not to be rude and patronising.
> 
> 2. The fact that you are still a child makes your rudeness worse. Sorry, but it does.
> 
> 3. *If you don't stop rolling your eyes at everything you are in severe danger of them rolling right away and you losing them*.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> Like i said i dont care what you do in your spare time. As an animal lover i care how peoples bad habits affect their pets.
> 
> *What would it take for you to stop smoking around your animals? A conclusive scientific study or a visit to the vet with an animal with some kind of respiratory problem? *
> 
> Prevention is always better than cure.


Yup, which nobody has put forward so far. Either that or overwhelming anecdotal and personal experience of the effects. As with raw feeding the scientific community has not done studies, however I see an overwhelming anecdotal and personal wealth of experience which has made up my mind with regards to that issue. I've not seen any compelling evidence in any form regarding dogs, and I also firmly believe personally that pollution in the form of industry can contribute to lung problems. A study which was based on rural dogs would be a lot less biased in my eyes.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Coffee said:


> 1. It really isn't ANY of your business what Phoolf does in her OWN house with her OWN dog.  I thought this thread was "to get others' opinions", not to be rude and patronising.
> 
> 2. The fact that you are still a child makes your rudeness worse. Sorry, but it does.
> 
> 3. If you don't stop rolling your eyes at everything you are in severe danger of them rolling right away and you losing them.


1) Well, if it harms her pet then yes it is. Let's make this a different scenario here... lets say I had a dog called Steve. I smacked him and posted a thread about it... people started having a go at me (rightly so)... it isn't really any of your business... same principal.

2) I fail to see the rudeness

3) Care to provide scientific evidence?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Secondhand Smoke Is A Health Threat To Pets


Thank you, I'll read and digest. However, the problem with studies is they seem to base the findings on actual cigarettes, which as a smoker of hand rolled cigarettes like myself knows are very much different in how much smoke etc. they produce.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

5rivers79 said:


> Like i said i dont care what you do in your spare time. As an animal lover i care how peoples bad habits affect their pets.
> 
> What would it take for you to stop smoking around your animals? A conclusive scientific study or a visit to the vet with an animal with some kind of respiratory problem?
> 
> ...


I have smoked for 40 yrs always had animals and never had 1 with any breathing probs or cancer


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Secondhand Smoke Is A Health Threat To Pets
> 
> Edit:
> I'm not telling you what you need to do or not do in your home. Everything carries a risk, risk assessment is about making educated choices. There are links to the research in the full article linked above.


Is this good enough?


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Coffee said:


> 1. It really isn't ANY of your business what Phoolf does in her OWN house with her OWN dog.  I thought this thread was "to get others' opinions", not to be rude and patronising.
> 
> 2. The fact that you are still a child makes your rudeness worse. Sorry, but it does.
> 
> 3. If you don't stop rolling your eyes at everything you are in severe danger of them rolling right away and you losing them.


Its not about Phoolf and what she does with her dogs. Its a cross section opinion from both sides of how people view their habits affecting their animals.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Leanne77 said:


> Just wanted to pick up on this point. Steve McQueen may have died directly from asbestosis but it would have been greatly spurred on by the fact he smoked 100 **** a day, his lungs were already compromised. So I would argue that his death wasn't caused _solely_ by asbestos exposure.
> 
> I dont smoke, my parents dont smoke, my friends dont smoke so my dogs have never been around cigarettes.
> 
> I used to work in a supermarket years ago and one day I was working early morning on the kiosk. A lady nipped in with her children before school started to buy them their packed lunch. When she got to the checkout she also asked for her cigarettes. It turned out she didnt have enough money for everything she wanted to purchase so she chose to remove some of the items for her childrens lunch and keep her **** instead. If people want to smoke, thats their prerogative but I cannot abide selfish smokers such as the lady i've just described. I was dumbfounded and still am to this day, it's an incident I will always remember (this was to go with Blitz story about her mother).


This is precisely what I have discussed with some ex smoking friends recently, the **** had to be got at all costs. I came across a friend in a petrol station once, trying to buy cigarettes with a credit card and they would have do it because it was below the minimum for CC - it wouldn't be now, but it was then. She had no money till the end of the month and they would probably have scraped by with the food, but she had to have the cigarettes.

Another friend was telling me how she sat counting pennies wondering how she was going to buy her little boy some socks, while she was smoking her cigarette.

I was prompted to give up when I had to scrape round my son's money box for money for cat food, but I had made sure I had my ****.

People who have never smoked do not understand and never will. The lady in the supermarket was just like the pensioner I see regularly, the day before pension day, who put her milk back so she could afford the cigarettes.

I am very glad I don't have to suffer that any more, but I will always understand it.



5rivers79 said:


> That's the attitude that I don't agree with. Your not worried about passive smoking because you are a smoker. Animals don't understand the possible risks however slim those risks may be.


Perhaps she is not worried about passive smoking because she doesn't believe it exists.



Coffee said:


> That's an awful big assumption.
> 
> As a non smoker I'm wondering where on earth you came up with that from?
> 
> Every single smoker I know smokes either outside, or at the back door or at least with a window open. Not ONE of them is confined to one room, with all doors and windows closed, frantically chain smoking as many as they can...


When I smoked it was always inside and with the windows closed unless it was warm weather. I always said I was not going outside to have a cigarette in my own house.


----------



## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I hate smoking so I can clearly see the points being made about the threat to pets, and I agree. BUT, at the end of the day, all I actually care about, and the only thing I can control is whether or not people smoke around my own dogs. If other people want to smoke around their pets it's up to them, we cant do anything about it so I see no point in getting riled up and arguing about it.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

dandogman said:


> 1) Well, if it harms her pet then yes it is. Let's make this a different scenario here... lets say I had a dog called Steve. I smacked him and posted a thread about it... people started having a go at me (rightly so)... it isn't really any of your business... same principal.
> 
> 2) I fail to see the rudeness
> 
> 3) Care to provide scientific evidence?


I think many people think your outdated views on dog behaviour are harmful to your pets, perhaps we should make a thread all rolling our eyes at what we perceive to be your own stupidity?

Also you have not in a single post presented scientific evidence I'm afraid. You really are awful at debating.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

This thread seriously was not meant to turn out like this, but there is nothing wrong with good, healthy debate...


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

dandogman said:


> Is this good enough?


Relying on other peoples maturity and presentation of persuasive rhetoric does not, in fact, mean that you are in any way contributing to the debate


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

dandogman said:


> This thread seriously was not meant to turn out like this, but there is nothing wrong with good, healthy debate...


Yes, something you seem incapable of.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Gosh, I better inform them all that their bicycles are imaginary!


Would love to see them carry their groceries home on a bike. Flying to a different country on a bike. Using their bikes for agriculture to grow their food. Using bikes to transport chicken, cows and lambs and fish ready for dinner time.

MacMillan would have been proud lol

Better get out my bike :tongue_smilie:


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> I think many people think your outdated views on dog behaviour are harmful to your pets, perhaps we should make a thread all rolling our eyes at what we perceive to be your own stupidity?
> 
> Also you have not in a single post presented scientific evidence I'm afraid. You really are awful at debating.


I would rather spend my time revising for 3 A level exams I have next week, than finding evidence on the internet.

I am not trying to debate though, I am making valid points, you are just denying them because it suits you.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ouesi - any chance you knwo of studies with numbers? The link is good but I would be interested in the incidence of affected dogs percentage wise.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Yes, something you seem incapable of.


If you say so


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> Would love to see them carry their groceries home on a bike. Flying to a different country on a bike. Using their bikes for agriculture to grow their food. Using bikes to transport chicken, cows and lambs and fish ready for dinner time.
> 
> Better get out my bike :tongue_smilie:


First one - did it for years. Not a problem.

Know people who bike across Europe. But if your transport needs are for getting to other countries, what are the rest of your journeys for?


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> I think many people think your outdated views on dog behaviour are harmful to your pets, perhaps we should make a thread all rolling our eyes at what we perceive to be your own stupidity?
> 
> Also you have not in a single post presented scientific evidence I'm afraid. You really are awful at debating.


Sorry, don't want to get caught in the fray here, but this made me LOL. 
While I agree that many posters are terrible at debating, the irony of using an ad-hominem argument to point that out is hilarious


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

dandogman said:


> I would rather spend my time revising for 3 A level exams I have next week, than finding evidence on the internet.
> 
> I am not trying to debate though, I am making valid points, you are just denying them because it suits you.


Oh, I had no idea you were actually that young. Probably better off revision for your A Levels really, could you point me to your valid points? You don't seem to have made any. Other people have however, in a mature, persuasive and non-condescending manner.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Oh, I had no idea you were actually that young. Probably better off revision for your A Levels really, could you point me to your valid points? You don't seem to have made any. *Other people have however, in a mature, persuasive and non-condescending manner.*


Round of applause!


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Sorry, don't want to get caught in the fray here, but this made me LOL.
> While I agree that many posters are terrible at debating, the irony of using an ad-hominem argument to point that out is hilarious


Why thank you :lol:

I don't mean to get caught in the frey, however I have some books to study that I am distracting myself from.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

dandogman said:


> 1) Well, if it harms her pet then yes it is. Let's make this a different scenario here... lets say I had a dog called Steve. I smacked him and posted a thread about it... people started having a go at me (rightly so)... it isn't really any of your business... same principal.
> 
> 2) I fail to see the rudeness
> 
> 3) Care to provide scientific evidence?


1. The difference is, she has not posted a thread stating "I smoke around my dog" and inviting opinions on her actions as your scenario does. This further re-inforces my belief that this thread was NEVER about "getting peoples' opinions" and was always going to turn into a smokers bashing.

2. Fine. Your opinion. I think you've been hugely rude.

3. You are really making me hate that smilie, which is a shame. I used to be rather fond of it.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Sorry, don't want to get caught in the fray here, but this made me LOL.
> While I agree that many posters are terrible at debating, the irony of using an *ad-hominem *argument to point that out is hilarious


I've learned something new today, thanks


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Coffee said:


> 1. The difference is, she has not posted a thread stating "I smoke around my dog" and inviting opinions on her actions as your scenario does. This further re-inforces my belief that this thread was NEVER about "getting peoples' opinions" and was always going to turn into a smokers bashing.
> 
> 2. Fine. Your opinion. I think you've been hugely rude.
> 
> 3. You are really making me hate that smilie, which is a shame. I used to be rather fond of it.


I hate people who ruin my favourite smilies.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Coffee said:


> 1. The difference is, she has not posted a thread stating "I smoke around my dog" and inviting opinions on her actions as your scenario does. This further re-inforces my belief that this thread was NEVER about "getting peoples' opinions" and was always going to turn into a smokers bashing.
> 
> 2. Fine. Your opinion. I think you've been hugely rude.
> 
> 3. You are really making me hate that smilie, which is a shame. I used to be rather fond of it.


1) Your belief is wrong. I have no problem with smoking outside (well I do, but this isn't the time), just concerned about people smoking around their pets (and others). If I wanted to start a thread with the intention to 'smoker bash' I would have titled it 'let's go do some smoker bashing' or similar 

2) Well that is your opinion.

3)


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

well this is nice, isn't it!
erm, i smoke (and my boyfriend does occasionally) in the house. i'm sorry? i don't really know what else to say!
i grew up with my parents smoking in the house and i don't compare them to child abusers so calling it animal cruelty is a bit much! think some people need to calm down a bit tbh.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> I hate people who ruin my favourite smilies.


You hate me because I have the opposite opinions of you? Makes sense in this society I suppose.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

dandogman said:


> You hate me because I have the opposite opinions of you? Makes sense in this society I suppose.


It was called humour.

And your attitude is not too short of hateful itself, and just because someone has the opposite opinion to yourself. Sounds familiar....


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> ouesi - any chance you knwo of studies with numbers? The link is good but I would be interested in the incidence of affected dogs percentage wise.


Can I ask why it would make much of a difference, if it's a statistically low or high chance your own pets could be affected by second hand smoke?


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> ouesi - any chance you knwo of studies with numbers? The link is good but I would be interested in the incidence of affected dogs percentage wise.


Passive smoking and canine lung cancer risk. [Am J Epidemiol. 1992] - PubMed - NCBI

Most of the readily available stats on SHS are human related. I'd have to do more digging for pet-specific ones. From what I've seen, cats seem to be more affected than dogs as they groom themselves and directly ingest the toxins deposited on their fur.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Can I ask why it would make much of a difference, if it's a statistically low or high chance your own pets could be affected by second hand smoke?


Because when making any decision you factor in the risks and make your choice on balance of those risks. If the risk of death from bungee jumping was 10% I wouldn't even consider it, if it was (for sake of argument) 0.001% then I would be more likely to take that risk. I take calculated risks every day, like everyone else, and everyone has different perceptions of risk. If the chance was 1% that Kes would get cancer I would most likely change my mind, if it were in 0.001% of dogs it would be less persuasive.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I have flagged this thread up for mods as it has gone too far in my opinion, it was not my intention for it to turn out like this!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Passive smoking and canine lung cancer risk. [Am J Epidemiol. 1992] - PubMed - NCBI
> 
> Most of the readily available stats on SHS are human related. I'd have to do more digging for pet-specific ones. From what I've seen, cats seem to be more affected than dogs as they groom themselves and directly ingest the toxins deposited on their fur.


It seemed to me like it was more pertinent to cats also. As already mentioned most are to do with cigarettes themselves, I wouldn't smoke cigarettes in my own house or round Kes, but hand rolled cigarettes depending on brand are quite different in amount of toxins, smoke created etc. so it's very hard to make informed decisions without that relevant information.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

dandogman said:


> 1) Your belief is wrong. I have no problem with smoking outside (well I do, but this isn't the time), just concerned about people smoking around their pets (and others). If I wanted to start a thread with the intention to 'smoker bash' I would have titled it 'let's go do some smoker bashing' or similar
> 
> 2) Well that is your opinion.
> 
> 3)


You have no problem with people smoking in general then? Gosh, that's good of you.

You're wasting your time being concerned about passive smoking to be honest. It will never stop. EVER. The powers that be have done their best at making public smoking as difficult as possible but unless they outlaw smoking on the street (wouldn't surprise me to be honest) you will never 100% get away from it in public. Of course in your own home is a different matter... that's where you can be 100% smoke free and ensure your family and pets are too. As long as you and your loved ones are smoke free then really, it's none of your business what others do and your concern is a waste of time.

Better to spend your time on people who really DO abuse animals. The puppy farmers, the people who run dog fighting etc.

Or, go and spend your time on those A Levels of yours...not sure why you felt it relevant to bring that up, hasn't really got anything to do with this.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

dandogman said:


> I have flagged this thread up for mods as it has gone too far in my opinion, it was not my intention for it to turn out like this!


I guess you don't like healthy debate so much then, as that seems to be what the majority of posters are engaging in.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Coffee said:


> You have no problem with people smoking in general then? Gosh, that's good of you.
> 
> *You're wasting your time being concerned about passive smoking to be honest. It will never stop. EVER. The powers that be have done their best at making public smoking as difficult as possible but unless they outlaw smoking on the street (wouldn't surprise me to be honest) you will never 100% get away from it in public*. Of course in your own home is a different matter... that's where you can be 100% smoke free and ensure your family and pets are too. As long as you and your loved ones are smoke free then really, it's none of your business what others do and your concern is a waste of time.
> 
> ...


I am not replying to this, as I am not entering into this with you.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> Because when making any decision you factor in the risks and make your choice on balance of those risks. If the risk of death from bungee jumping was 10% I wouldn't even consider it, if it was (for sake of argument) 0.001% then I would be more likely to take that risk. I take calculated risks every day, like everyone else, and everyone has different perceptions of risk. If the chance was 1% that Kes would get cancer I would most likely change my mind, if it were in 0.001% of dogs it would be less persuasive.


I think the difference is, and is probably how some others see it, that you are making that choice on behalf of your dogs/cats/pets in general. It's you who smokes, and so in my mind, and possibly how others see it, if you want to smoke, risk your own health, but risking the health of your pets just isn't what some would deem acceptable.

That said, it's anyone's choice to smoke and do what they like as long as it's legal in their own home. I personally can't get my head around why anyone would risk exposing their pets to second hand smoke, particularly long term, but that's just me.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I think the difference is, and is probably how some others see it, that you are making that choice on behalf of your dogs/cats/pets in general. It's you who smokes, and so in my mind, and possibly how others see it, if you want to smoke, risk your own health, but risking the health of your pets just isn't what some would deem acceptable.
> 
> That said, it's anyone's choice to smoke and do what they like as long as it's legal in their own home. I personally can't get my head around why anyone would risk exposing their pets to second hand smoke, particularly long term, but that's just me.


We make most choices on behalf of our dogs and what we deem to be their best interest, or not in their best interests. I would think people who feed Bakers cause much more cancer than those who chose to smoke, and those who chose to let their dogs off lead round roads are responsible for more death etc. At the end of the day with most things of opinion everyone is a hypocrite, and I've yet to meet anyone whose decisions I agree with in every regard. We do our best with what we have and the lives we lead, nothing more nothing less. I might believe raw feeding is the best, but some people may not want to make the time to make the effort, but that's their choice and they do the best with their lives.  It may not even be long term in my case. I might quit smoking next week, who knows? I certainly will give up at some point in the future, just not right this second.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Coffee said:


> You have no problem with people smoking in general then? Gosh, that's good of you.
> 
> You're wasting your time being concerned about passive smoking to be honest. It will never stop. EVER. The powers that be have done their best at making public smoking as difficult as possible but unless they outlaw smoking on the street (wouldn't surprise me to be honest) you will never 100% get away from it in public. Of course in your own home is a different matter... that's where you can be 100% smoke free and ensure your family and pets are too. As long as you and your loved ones are smoke free then really, it's none of your business what others do and your concern is a waste of time.
> 
> ...


I think there are some cities in the world where smoking is not allowed anywhere, not even in the street or in your own car. I believe Toronto is one of them.

I would not be surprised if that idea caught on here as they seem to want to regulate every damned thing we do.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I think there are some cities in the world where smoking is not allowed anywhere, not even in the street or in your own car. I believe Toronto is one of them.
> 
> I would not be surprised if that idea caught on here as they seem to want to regulate every damned thing we do.


Roll on that day I say.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I think there are some cities in the world where smoking is not allowed anywhere, not even in the street or in your own car. I believe Toronto is one of them.
> 
> I would not be surprised if that idea caught on here as they seem to want to regulate every damned thing we do.


Problem being with that is the more you limit outdoor smoking, the more we have to smoke indoors. :crazy:


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Just lobbing a tangerinf into the discussion if you believe smoking around pets is tantamount to abuse, is it abuse to feed dog food that contains known carncinogens?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

moonviolet said:


> Just lobbing a tangerinf into the discussion if you believe smoking around pets is tantamount to abuse, is it abuse to feed dog food that contains none carncinogens?


Everyones a hypocrite 

I think it's abuse to treat a dog as if it's trying to dominate you, and there's probably more scientific literature supporting that than there is regarding dogs and smoking


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> We make most choices on behalf of our dogs and what we deem to be their best interest, or not in their best interests. I would think people who feed Bakers cause much more cancer than those who chose to smoke, and those who chose to let their dogs off lead round roads are responsible for more death etc. At the end of the day with most things of opinion everyone is a hypocrite, and I've yet to meet anyone whose decisions I agree with in every regard. We do our best with what we have and the lives we lead, nothing more nothing less. I might believe raw feeding is the best, but some people may not want to make the time to make the effort, but that's their choice and they do the best with their lives.


Yes but all of that is diversionary, or you might as well just say let's not bother making what we believe is the best decision for the health of our pets. As the link posted by Ouesi has shown, second hand smoke is a definite risk to our pets, there's no point in saying well Bakers is a risk so I might as well continue smoking, if you don't feed Bakers. If you choose to smoke, and know there are health risks to you, and you choose to expose your pets to it, you might as well just hold your hands up and say 'guilty as charged' - none of us are perfect, I'm sure we all do things either knowingly or in ignorance that risks our pets and their health, but it tickles me that whenever smoking enters the equation, somehow the whole of the economy seems to be held up by the tax people pay on their **** and no-one believes it's harmful to inhale second hand smoke.

It's a shame the debate got a bit sidelined, but never mind, thanks for the links Ouesi, interesting reading


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

dandogman said:


> Roll on that day I say.


But then smokers would have to smoke in their house with their pets which is what you said you was against 

I smoke but not in my house, I have rats and small furries so I wouldn't want to risk their health but that's my opinion and by no means does it mean I look down on people that do smoke around their pets as that is their choice to make.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> But then smokers would have to smoke in their house with their pets which is what you said you was against
> 
> I smoke but not in my house, I have rats and small furries so I wouldn't want to risk their health but that's my opinion and by no means does it mean I look down on people that do smoke around their pets as that is their choice to make.


Or maybe they could stop all together?

*not smoker bashing, just a genuine idea*


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

Oh dear another thread degenerates into the bashing of other people and their views. Well I smoke,never in the house. I always go outside or in winter stand by the back door with it open. All us smokers know the risks but its not for others to judge those of us that do. Its a free world,well I thought it was. :001_rolleyes:


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Yes but all of that is diversionary, or you might as well just say let's not bother making what we believe is the best decision for the health of our pets. As the link posted by Ouesi has shown, second hand smoke is a definite risk to our pets, there's no point in saying well Bakers is a risk so I might as well continue smoking, if you don't feed Bakers. If you choose to smoke, and know there are health risks to you, and you choose to expose your pets to it, you might as well just hold your hands up and say 'guilty as charged' - none of us are perfect, I'm sure we all do things either knowingly or in ignorance that risks our pets and their health, but it tickles me that whenever smoking enters the equation, somehow the whole of the economy seems to be held up by the tax people pay on their **** and no-one believes it's harmful to inhale second hand smoke.
> 
> It's a shame the debate got a bit sidelined, but never mind, thanks for the links Ouesi, interesting reading


Ouesi's links were certainly very helpful  Back to the point of risk assessment though, which is why is matters what the risk is to my pets with regard to me smoking, hence my asking so I can make that informed decision. It's also related to my point about lifestyles, it might not be convenient for some people to go to the butchers once a week to get raw food, just as it might not be convenient for those living in apartment blocks to exit the building every hour to smoke.

As for the NHS and passive smoking human debate, I didn't wade into that. I do however know that tax revenue exceeds moneys spent, and on passive smoking I am not 100% convinced either way. I like to make informed decisions, people who are aversive to learning to opening their minds are very dangerous, hence why my current decision may well change and I asked for literature on the subect.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> First one - did it for years. Not a problem.
> 
> Know people who bike across Europe. But if your transport needs are for getting to other countries, what are the rest of your journeys for?


Across europe not across oceans 

Secondly where did the bikes come from? How was the bike manufactured and then transported to your friends? Sadly all these processes use electricity and fuel which produce harmful pollution as studies have found. nothing green about a bike till the end user receives it..even then how do inner tubes and tyres get discarded...the oil to lubricate chains.

You cant compare transport and electricity to smoking. If you stopped smoking you would still get a plate of food on your table and the heat to warm your house. Smoking adds no benefit to the human race it only adds harmful toxins.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

moonviolet said:


> Just lobbing a tangerinf into the discussion if you believe smoking around pets is tantamount to abuse, is it abuse to feed dog food that contains none carncinogens?


I almost used this argument but then I just couldn't complete the analogy because feeding your dog is a requirement, smoking around your dog is not.
But I do get what you're saying about risks we take with our pets. Again it's all risk assessment. 
When I brought my preemie babies home, I refused to let anyone touch them without washing their hands, but exposing them to pet dander and slobber didn't worry me. Go figure....


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

dandogman said:


> Or maybe they could stop all together?


One day you may realise life is not as simple as that.

Perhaps when you have experience with addiction you will be more qualified in your opinions. Everyone is entitled to opinions, but unfortunately some are more valid than others.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

dandogman said:


> Or maybe they could stop all together?


Why should they if they see no risk? Just because you perceive there to be a risk doesn't mean that others see the same.

My nana died of emphysema which is considered a smokers disease, she never smoked a cigarette in her life, nor was she around anyone that smoked. I also knew a lovely lady that lived until the grand old age of 102, she smoked 15 **** a day EVERY day of her life (from the age of 12). In fact she died sitting in her garden chair with a cup of tea and a cigarette in her hand, she just nodded off and never woke up.

Everything in life has a risk, it is up to the individual to calculate that risk.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> Across europe not across oceans
> 
> Secondly where did the bikes come from? How was the bike manufactured and then transported to your friends? Sadly all these processes use electricity and fuel which produce harmful pollution as studies have found. nothing green about a bike till the end user receives it..even then how do inner tubes and tyres get discarded...the oil to lubricate chains.
> 
> You cant compare transport and electricity to smoking. If you stopped smoking you would still get a plate of food on your table and the heat to warm your house. Smoking adds no benefit to the human race it only adds harmful toxins.


You seem to be deflecting and relying on necessary transportation routes rather than the 99% of car journeys which are entirely unneccessary and harmful not only to humans but animals.

Seems kind of like we are going in circles so quite pointless I suppose.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dandogman said:


> Or maybe they could stop all together?
> 
> *not smoker bashing, just a genuine idea*


An idea? An idea you have just thought up? If someone really wants to stop smoking and will put the effort in, then I am sure they will, but that is not up to you or anyone else to decide.

Maybe people could stop drinking altogether, that would be an excellent idea. Then they wouldn't get behind the wheel thinking they are immune to the effects and kill someone, neither would they roll about the streets scaring people or making a fool of themselves.

Just tell me why the hell they should stop altogether just to please the self righteous who think they know it all.

Sorry, but I find that suggestion on a forum so arrogant, especially coming from a child.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> An idea? An idea you have just thought up? If someone really wants to stop smoking and will put the effort in, then I am sure they will, but that is not up to you or anyone else to decide.
> 
> Maybe people could stop drinking altogether, that would be an excellent idea. Then they wouldn't get behind the wheel thinking they are immune to the effects and kill someone, neither would they roll about the streets scaring people or making a fool of themselves.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Just because an idea occurs in your mind, doesn't mean it should leave your mind or that it has any real life merit.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

blossom21 said:


> Oh dear another thread degenerates into the bashing of other people and their views. Well I smoke,never in the house. I always go outside or in winter stand by the back door with it open. *All us smokers know the risks* but its not for others to judge those of us that do. Its a free world,well I thought it was. :001_rolleyes:


But thats the point..not all do..and some choose to ignore them as they want concrete evidence. You use common sense and thats all anyone asks for when it comes to the welfare of animals.

After all if we didnt care about what the next person does to their animals we wouldnt have a forum that talks about back yard breeding, rights and wrongs of pack theory and how Cesar Millan trains his dogs by a kick lol

Its no about laying judgement, its about sharing common sense and advising for the benefit of our voiceless pets.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> An idea? An idea you have just thought up? If someone really wants to stop smoking and will put the effort in, then I am sure they will, but that is not up to you or anyone else to decide.
> 
> Maybe people could stop drinking altogether, that would be an excellent idea. Then they wouldn't get behind the wheel thinking they are immune to the effects and kill someone, neither would they roll about the streets scaring people or making a fool of themselves.
> 
> ...


hahahaha oh gosh, just fell of my chair with laughter.

I fail to see how anyone has the right to impose their fumes on someone else. It is disgusting, absolutly foul to have to walk down the road and inhale someone else's fumes. I fail to see why I should have to put up with that, knowing that it could affect my health. I would fully support a total ban in smoking.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> But thats the point..not all do..and some choose to ignore them as they want concrete evidence. You use common sense and thats all anyone asks for when it comes to the welfare of animals.
> 
> After all if we didnt care about what the next person does to their animals we wouldnt have a forum that talks about back yard breeding, rights and wrongs of pack theory and how Cesar Millan trains his dogs by a kick lol
> 
> Its no about laying judgement, its about sharing common sense and advising for the benefit of our voiceless pets.


Common sense isn't always enough, many people prefer to rely on evidence. Common sense 50 years ago meant beating your dog if it didn't recall.


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> An idea? An idea you have just thought up? If someone really wants to stop smoking and will put the effort in, then I am sure they will, but that is not up to you or anyone else to decide.
> 
> Maybe people could stop drinking altogether, that would be an excellent idea. Then they wouldn't get behind the wheel thinking they are immune to the effects and kill someone, neither would they roll about the streets scaring people or making a fool of themselves.
> 
> ...




Exactly that still a child and wet behind the ears. Ive lived a lot more years than you,so when you have a bit more experience of life in all its glory then come back and lecture me. I wouldnt allow my children to tell me what to do,so Im certainly not paying heed to your gibberish.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

closing to read throughb after a report...


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Argh another thread that has grown at a rapid rate, I read the first few pages earlier but frankly can't be bothered to read the middle ones not if as has been suggested this ahs gone down hill.

Hoooooweeeever, I saw this earlier and, do you know , I can honestly say it never even occurred to me about the dog passive smoking before. So thanks dandogman for bringing this up even *if *you have no idea how hard it can be to give up such an badly addictive drug and habit and how much most people actually want to 

As we gave up in October,  and rather pleased with myself I am too, although we are approaching the time that we broke last time we tried  so mustn't be too smug, (even though I can actually stand next to a smoker and enjoy the smell but have no desire to smoke again ) Ginge doesn't need to worry about that


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

5rivers79 said:


> its about sharing common sense and advising for the benefit of our voiceless pets.


Do you heed all common sense advice you receive for the benefit of your voiceless pets?

Just as we have a right to advise people, folks have just as much a right to ignore said advice for whatever reason they choose.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I think there are some cities in the world where smoking is not allowed anywhere, not even in the street or in your own car. I believe Toronto is one of them.
> 
> I would not be surprised if that idea caught on here as they seem to want to regulate every damned thing we do.


To me personally I would like that very much.

I agree with anyone's choice to smoke, I don't mind it. But in the summer I would like to sit outside a restaurant and eat but I can't without having an asthma attack.

I also wouldn't enjoy my food, but that is another argument.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

canuckjill said:


> closing to read throughb after a report...


Psst... Jill... it's still open


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

GingerRogers said:


> Argh another thread that has grown at a rapid rate, I read the first few pages earlier but frankly can't be bothered to read the middle ones not if as has been suggested this ahs gone down hill.
> 
> Hoooooweeeever, I saw this earlier and, do you know , I can honestly say it never even occurred to me about the dog passive smoking before. So thanks dandogman for bringing this up even *if *you have no idea how hard it can be to give up such an badly addictive drug and habit and how much most people actually want to
> 
> As we gave up in October,  and rather pleased with myself I am too, although we are approaching the time that we broke last time we tried  so mustn't be too smug, (even though I can actually stand next to a smoker and enjoy the smell but have no desire to smoke again ) Ginge doesn't need to worry about that


I admit, maybe I have been too idk... harsh. Sorry for that.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

ooh interesting reading!

Please hurry up and close it, I've managed to sit on my hands and read all 20 pages and really shouldn't say what I would really like to say........

Nope, I'm resisting.............

You've no idea how hard it is for me to not let out everything that has annoyed me in this thread, but I don't want to make enemies and I have willpower  so am keeping well and truly schtum!


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

foxyrockmeister said:


> ooh interesting reading!
> 
> Please hurry up and close it, I've managed to sit on my hands and read all 20 pages and really shouldn't say what I would really like to say........
> 
> ...


I apologise if I have annoyed you (I seem to have annoyed most people on this thread.


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## Sezzastar (Oct 2, 2012)

dandogman said:


> I apologise if I have annoyed you (I seem to have annoyed most people on this thread.


You're safe with me :tongue_smilie:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I hate it when threads get closed suddenly, you can never quite finish off saying what you wanted to


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

dandogman said:


> I apologise if I have annoyed you (I seem to have annoyed most people on this thread.


Actually, although I don't necessarily agree with the way you have put your opinion across in parts of this thread, it's actually 'the other side' that have annoyed me more with some of their reasoning (read excuses)

BUT I'm NOT getting involved :lol:


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

I think dandogman is affecting my health, I'm getting a headache


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dandogman said:


> hahahaha oh gosh, just fell of my chair with laughter.
> 
> I fail to see how anyone has the right to impose their fumes on someone else. It is disgusting, absolutly foul to have to walk down the road and inhale someone else's fumes. I fail to see why I should have to put up with that, knowing that it could affect my health. I would fully support a total ban in smoking.


And I fail to see how anyone has the right to tell other people they should stop smoking because you don't like it. You don't have to walk near where people are smoking, I don't. I manage to avoid them why can't you?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> And I fail to see how anyone has the right to tell other people they should stop smoking because you don't like it. *You don't have to walk near where people are smoking*, I don't. I manage to avoid them why can't you?


I think it is the other way around! I am not causing a problem they are. Therefore they should avoid me.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dandogman said:


> I think it is the other way around! I am not causing a problem they are. Therefore they should avoid me.


So if someone is walking down the road or standing with a cigarette, they are supposed to cross the road in case they upset you? My God you've got a lot to learn haven't you? Arrogance personified.

Ever thought that you are causing a problem by objecting, disapproving? Ever thought you are causing a problem just by being there and probably turning your nose up? It is a public place and as long as no one is doing anything illegal it is absolutely none of your business.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

OK well now I've stopped laughing cause I forgot to close it for about 1/2 hour or so...oops Darn those windows scammers had tp play with them on the phone....Anyways reading this it seems most defended their points of view, if we can continue without anymore reports I see no reason not to re open it, its a good debate that can be done without bashing members....


ps I smoke and yes I smoke in the house gotta admit though at -30 if I had to smoke outside I'd probably quit...I figure my house, my money more importantly my Choice and I believe in choices.. although funnily enough I quit for almost 4 years when I was having children and I had a dog that was allergic


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

dandogman said:


> I think it is the other way around! I am not causing a problem they are. Therefore they should avoid me.


How arrogant.

How on earth are they supposed to know you object to smoking? For all they know you could be a 20 a day person yourself. If you don't like what someone is doing then YOU should move away from them.

I am gobsmacked at your egotistic attitude.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

TBH Phoolf i think it's very naive to think just because your smoking roll ups it's not as bad for the dog. 

I don't see any reason why you should need to smoke around pets or children get up and go outside , it's just laziness/selfishness if you can't be bothered :glare: 

As for the person who lit up in the street the other day and then stuck it into my four year olds face ......she got told


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I dont agree with smoking around dogs...just the same as it is unacceptable (to me) to smoke around children.

If smokers visit me....they get shown to the garden to smoke.

Its up to anyone imho to smoke like a chimney if they want to but others....including dogs (who cant express their opinion of course) shouldnt have to be subjected to the smell or any dangers passive smoking poses.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

My dad's mum used to smoke, so the house was always smelling of smoke, even the back bedroom where I slept had the duvet smelling of nicotine. But I liked spending time with her so it was a catch 22 situation. I think certainly passive smoking is definitely less risky than inhaling the stuff directly into yourself though.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Coffee said:


> How arrogant.
> 
> How on earth are they supposed to know you object to smoking? For all they know you could be a 20 a day person yourself. If you don't like what someone is doing then YOU should move away from them.
> 
> I am gobsmacked at your egotistic attitude.


I am gobsmacked by your attitude, I am not going to lie!

No, me walking down the street is not affecting them, whereas them walking down the street puffing away is affecting people! Therefore as they are causing the problem not me, they should move. Just my opinion, and I know a lot of people would agree.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Pointermum said:


> TBH Phoolf i think it's very naive to think just because your smoking roll ups it's not as bad for the dog.
> 
> I don't see any reason why you should need to smoke around pets or children get up and go outside , it's just laziness/selfishness if you can't be bothered :glare:
> 
> As for the person who lit up in the street the other day and then* stuck it into my four year olds face* ......she got told


omh, that is disgusting!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I have to agree with the OP, there's nothing worse than being out in the fresh air, only to have some numpty light up and smoke where it's going to blow right where you have to breathe, and that's from someone who's an occasional smoker! It's not difficult to smoke and not impose your habit on others.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Pointermum said:


> TBH Phoolf i think it's very naive to think just because your smoking roll ups it's not as bad for the dog.
> 
> I don't see any reason why you should need to smoke around pets or children get up and go outside , it's just laziness/selfishness if you can't be bothered :glare:
> 
> As for the person who lit up in the street the other day and then stuck it into my four year olds face ......she got told


Well that's just horribly rude. I like to think I'm a considerate smoker... I would never light up in that sort of situation. If I'm smoking in the street I always glance around me to check there's no-one approaching me from behind and if there is I wait until they pass.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Pointermum said:


> TBH Phoolf i think it's very naive to think just because your smoking roll ups it's not as bad for the dog.
> 
> As for the person who lit up in the street the other day and then stuck it into my four year olds face ......she got told


To the first bit I don't think so at all. Do you know much about the difference between cigarettes and say...American Spirit organic, additive free tobacco for hand rolling? It's like the difference between 40% whiskey and 5% beer.

And I don't think your situation is about a smoker - more to do with the person being a complete and utter arse!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Generally, my motto is: I don't bother anybody with what I like to do and I expect other people to extend that courtesy to me and my children. I don't care what other people do in the privacy of their own home or what choices they make about their lifestyle. I might not agree with them, but that's not the other person's problem.
That is the beauty of living in a free country.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

coffee said:


> well that's just horribly rude. I like to think i'm a considerate smoker... I would never light up in that sort of situation. *if i'm smoking in the street i always glance around me to check there's no-one approaching me from behind and if there is i wait until they pass.*


 not everyone is as considerate.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular. I have no interest in smoking, but am not offended by others who do so. I am sort of impartial. I'm only reading this thread cos it's pretty entertaining... I know people who are anti smoking and others who smoke around people, children and animals.

But I was interested to read about the lack of evidence regarding passive smoking - I guess I never really thought about it, just presumed that it was the case - seen as the smoke goes in the air and into the lungs it seemed logical it would have some effect on people and other mammals in the vicinity, however small or large the effect may be. I thought that most people would think that too. Weird.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Wow- this thread is has really grown from this morning! 

I imagine it is probably a bad idea to smoke heavily around pets. I'm also very fussy about anything airbourne (no air fresheners allowed, no aerosols of any kind actually) in this house because of the fish and reptile. 

The bizarre thing is that I would actually quite like to be a smoker! I love the smell and could easily see myself getting addicted. It's never going to happen though, for me the case for not smoking on health grounds wins out, significantly.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

For those going on about how much smokers cost the NHS. Any studies done which actually work it out, not short term but long term taking age of death into account. Smokers kill themselves and may need short term health care which may be expensive. Non smokers live longer and potentially need more medical care in the long term. Which works out as more expensive at the end of the day?

When I first came to Germany over 10 years ago I was amazed at how common smoking was and where smoking was allowed. There were no "no smoking" areas in cafe's for example. It's got a lot better over time but I do not think smokers should be ostracized providing they show consideration for those who don't like smoke (another bugbear of mine when I first arrived). On the other side anti smoking fanaticism is also unacceptable.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

dandogman said:


> I am gobsmacked by your attitude, I am not going to lie!
> 
> No, me walking down the street is not affecting them, whereas them walking down the street puffing away is affecting people! Therefore as they are causing the problem not me, they should move. Just my opinion, and I know a lot of people would agree.


I'm offended by vehicle fumes. 

People keep driving passed me though 

I just stay away as much as possible from those stinking motorways and towns. :biggrin5:


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> To the first bit I don't think so at all. Do you know much about the difference between cigarettes and say...American Spirit organic, additive free tobacco for hand rolling? It's like the difference between 40% whiskey and 5% beer.
> 
> And I don't think your situation is about a smoker - more to do with the person being a complete and utter arse!


My argument to you would be it might be toxic to him, it might not be , you can't be 100% sure so why take the risk


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

One of my children....when about 5 years old....got burned by a cigarette from a lady at a family party! My OH was going ape but I accepted her apology as it was my SILs friend and knew it was embarrassing for her (my DD was crying hysterically as it was her arm that got burned and very painful). Thank goodness attitudes towards smoking in public places has changed since then. Some smokers are selfish....no two ways about it....but most use their head and dont impose their smoking on others in my opinion.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

We have a smoke free house-hold here, my work-place is also smoke free, and as time goes on, I know few and fewer smokers, most try to stop these days. In fact the only time I encounter people who smoke are in town while they stand around huddled in corners outside offices and shops. 

I did smoke, heavily, but I stopped because I just could not afford it, that was 30 odd years ago now so goodness knows what a packed of **** costs now I shudder to think.  and no, I don't want to know either.

My family still smoke although they do try and cut down but I can still smell the smoke on Birthday cards and Christmas cards that have been written by them and sent through the mail. 

I'm glad I stopped all those years ago.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

jenniferx said:


> Wow- this thread is has really grown from this morning!
> 
> I imagine it is probably a bad idea to smoke heavily around pets. *I'm also very fussy about anything airbourne (no air fresheners allowed, no aerosols of any kind actually)* in this house because of the fish and reptile.
> 
> The bizarre thing is that I would actually quite like to be a smoker! I love the smell and could easily see myself getting addicted. It's never going to happen though, for me the case for not smoking on health grounds wins out, significantly.


A friend of mine was using that carpet deodorizer stuff - the powder you sprinkle on the carpeting then vacuum back up? 
Well, one of her dogs was having these episodes that looked like fly biting seizures. Turns out it was the carpet deodorizer. She finally connected the dots and he only did it right after she used that stuff. She quit using it, and the dog never "seized" again.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

missnaomi said:


> This isn't aimed at anyone in particular. I have no interest in smoking, but am not offended by others who do so. I am sort of impartial. I'm only reading this thread cos it's pretty entertaining... I know people who are anti smoking and others who smoke around people, children and animals.
> 
> But I was interested to read about the *lack of evidence regarding passive smoking* - I guess I never really thought about it, just presumed that it was the case - seen as the smoke goes in the air and into the lungs it seemed logical it would have some effect on people and other mammals in the vicinity, however small or large the effect may be. I thought that most people would think that too. Weird.


I just did a (quick) search on Web of Knowledge which is a database of all peer-reviewed articles that have been published in recognised academic journals. When I typed in "passive smoking", there were 1700 pages of results (with 10 papers per page). There were at least 30 papers published in the last couple of months, all of which seem to point towards the increased health risks ( I only read the abstracts). 
Lack of evidence looks different to me. 

PS: Not aimed at you, MissNaomi, I know it was others that have said this before you.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Pointermum said:


> My argument to you would be it might be toxic to him, it might not be , you can't be 100% sure so why take the risk


Because I make decisions based on evidence, not on hearsay or vague notions? That's why I asked and read through any evidence put forward to me.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I have to agree with the OP, there's nothing worse than being out in the fresh air, only to have some numpty light up and smoke where it's going to blow right where you have to breathe, and that's from someone who's an occasional smoker! It's not difficult to smoke and not impose your habit on others.


Having read that, most Fridays we take the dogs, post walk to a beer garden (which is heated and has umbrellas) and to be honest, during most of the year, the only people having a couple of drinks, outside, apart from us, are smokers. Does it bother me that I breathe in their smoke sometimes? Not really, they might not like sharing their evening with dogs - but they don't complain and to be honest, a lot of people have asked if we are outside because we smoke or because of the dogs, and when we say its the dogs, they always go far away from us to be respectful  I expect people to not mind my dogs sitting around - and some people are petrified of dogs - so really, I owe it to others to be accepting of their behaviour, be it smoking, children ... Etc Also, we recently rented a holiday cottage, and the dog-friendly ones often allow smoking, they smell of smoke and I don't like it one bit - but equally, I've brought my dogs with other people might find stinky or offensive.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

missnaomi said:


> But I was interested to read about the lack of evidence regarding passive smoking - I guess I never really thought about it, *just presumed that it was the case - seen as the smoke goes in the air and into the lungs it seemed logical it would have some effect on people and other mammals in the vicinity, however small or large the effect may be. I thought that most people would think that too. Weird*.


Hurrah! Common sense :yesnod:



Pointermum said:


> My argument to you would be it might be toxic to him, it might not be , you can't be 100% sure so *why take the risk *


Exactly 

I really need to stop looking at this thread........ but I think I'm addicted....... I haven't got the will power to stop reading......but I'm not going to get on my soap box, but I will just say to some of the comments on here:

Really, are you serious  :nonod:


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

dandogman said:


> I am gobsmacked by your attitude, I am not going to lie!
> 
> No, me walking down the street is not affecting them, whereas them walking down the street puffing away is affecting people! Therefore as they are causing the problem not me, they should move. Just my opinion, and I know a lot of people would agree.


What attitude? Seriously, what about my replies has you so gobsmacked?

You're not getting it are you? How is the average smoker supposed to know if the stranger passing by is a smoking nazi? Should she cross over the road just in case? Then if someone passes by on the new side of the road must she then quickly skip back over to the original side? And so on and so on.

How ridiculous. The smoker is doing nothing wrong. She is LEGALLY allowed to smoke in the street so if YOU don't like it then YOU should move.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

terencesmum said:


> I just did a (quick) search on Web of Knowledge which is a database of all peer-reviewed articles that have been published in recognised academic journals. When I typed in "passive smoking", there were 1700 pages of results (with 10 papers per page). There were at least 30 papers published in the last couple of months, all of which seem to point towards the increased health risks ( I only read the abstracts).
> Lack of evidence looks different to me.
> 
> PS: Not aimed at you, MissNaomi, I know it was others that have said this before you.


Ands that's sort of what I meant - I didn't really care if their was evidence or not, never questioned it, it just seemed logical that it would have effect - therefore I can see why others liked me presumed it would? If that makes sense, I wasn't taking sides, just trying to point out to those who say there is no evidence - that maybe us none-researching people could be forgiven for presuming it has an effect!


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

I don't smoke, my house is smoke free (unless I burn the toast) :lol: if anyone visits, they smoke outside.



Sleeping_Lion said:


> I have to agree with the OP, there's nothing worse than being out in the fresh air, only to have some numpty light up and smoke where it's going to blow right where you have to breathe, and that's from someone who's an occasional smoker! It's not difficult to smoke and not impose your habit on others.


^^ this happened to me the other day  I was stood at the bus stop and the person in front of me decided to smoke, I had to move because the wind was blowing it back in my face. 

It's none of my business what other people do as long as it doesn't affect me or my dogs, but what I don't like is finding *** ends on the floor when I'm out walking the dogs, I have to be super carful to make sure that they don't pick them up.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I should add I don't smoke at my Dads he quit smoking at 54 and is now 87 ish... When he comes here I air out the house and don't allow smoking while he's here same with MIL but thats cause I don't want to blow up she's on oxygen...With my Dad its out of respect to him.


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Hurrah! Common sense :yesnod:
> 
> Exactly
> 
> ...


i am with you there keeping it zipped :closedeyes:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

missnaomi said:


> Having read that, most Fridays we take the dogs, post walk to a beer garden (which is heated and has umbrellas) and to be honest, during most of the year, the only people having a couple of drinks, outside, apart from us, are smokers. Does it bother me that I breathe in their smoke sometimes? Not really, they might not like sharing their evening with dogs - but they don't complain and to be honest, a lot of people have asked if we are outside because we smoke or because of the dogs, and when we say its the dogs, they always go far away from us to be respectful  I expect people to not mind my dogs sitting around - and some people are petrified of dogs - so really, I owe it to others to be accepting of their behaviour, be it smoking, children ... Etc Also, we recently rented a holiday cottage, and the dog-friendly ones often allow smoking, they smell of smoke and I don't like it one bit - but equally, I've brought my dogs with other people might find stinky or offensive.


I'm hoping I'm right in saying your dogs aren't a health risk if other people inhale their fumes? I could be wrong, mine can be fairly whiffy sometimes, but I don't think their whiff could be considered as a carcinogen? I can't find any peer reviewed articles on the inhalation of fox poo smells, but I'm fairly sure it's not as much of a risk


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

I must say although I smoke, I will never light up around food or any non smokers (especially children).

I never smoke walking down the street (never have) because I don't think it is fair to impose my habit on others and in busy streets (say on a market day) it can be dangerous.

If I wish to take the risk of getting lung cancer (or other related smoking diseases), and I don't care if my clothes and hair smells of smoke then quite frankly I don't care what others think


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Coffee said:


> What attitude? Seriously, what about my replies has you so gobsmacked?
> 
> You're not getting it are you? How is the average smoker supposed to know if the stranger passing by is a smoking nazi? Should she cross over the road just in case? Then if someone passes by on the new side of the road must she then quickly skip back over to the original side? And so on and so on.
> 
> How ridiculous. The smoker is doing nothing wrong. She is LEGALLY allowed to smoke in the street so if YOU don't like it then YOU should move.


I don't see how the knowledge that someone is or isn't a smoker makes a difference. If you smoke, the breath you exhale is second hand smoke, and your cigarette creates noxious fumes. Do you really need to know if someone else is a smoker or non smoker to simply be considerate, and do your best to ensure your habit doesn't impose on others around you?


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> Because I make decisions based on evidence, not on hearsay or vague notions? That's why I asked and read through any evidence put forward to me.


Your never going to find a study paper on your specific brand/type of tabacco, specificity on it's effects on dogs from 2nd hand smoke, does that mean you will just keep your head in the clouds until they do  When you could eliminate a lot risk by smoking outside and washing your hands when your done.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Coffee said:


> What attitude? Seriously, what about my replies has you so gobsmacked?
> 
> You're not getting it are you? How is the average smoker supposed to know if the stranger passing by is a smoking nazi? Should she cross over the road just in case? Then if someone passes by on the new side of the road must she then quickly skip back over to the original side? And so on and so on.
> 
> How ridiculous. The smoker is doing nothing wrong. She is LEGALLY allowed to smoke in the street so if YOU don't like it then YOU should move.


Everything...

Smoker Nazi? some people would find that extremely offensive. Do you know what the Nazi's did?
Yes 'she' should cross over. It her producing the chemicals not me! 
No, it isn't a question of what it legal. If she has happy with contributing to the potential of me developing lung cancer then she needs to look at her moral code.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Everything...
> 
> Smoker Nazi? some people would find that extremely offensive. Do you know what the Nazi's did?
> Yes 'she' should cross over. It her producing the chemicals not me!
> No, it isn't a question of what it legal. If she has happy with contributing to the potential of me developing lung cancer then she needs to look at her moral code.


And you need to lighten up sunbeam
Or light up maybe as you sound stressed


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Because I make decisions based on evidence, not on hearsay or vague notions? That's why I asked and read through any evidence put forward to me.


I really don't think that suggesting that smoking or passive smoking is dangerous to health is hearsay or a vague notion!

I'm pretty sure you'd struggle to find evidence based scientific trials to prove that sticking pins in your or your dogs eyes is damaging, but common sense would suggest that it's probably not a very good idea.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

dandogman said:


> Everything...
> 
> Smoker Nazi? some people would find that extremely offensive. Do you know what the Nazi's did?
> Yes 'she' should cross over. It her producing the chemicals not me!
> No, it isn't a question of what it legal. If she has happy with contributing to the potential of me developing lung cancer then she needs to look at her moral code.


Agree....the Nazi comment is out of line:001_rolleyes:


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'm hoping I'm right in saying your dogs aren't a health risk if other people inhale their fumes? I could be wrong, mine can be fairly whiffy sometimes, but I don't think their whiff could be considered as a carcinogen? I can't find any peer reviewed articles on the inhalation of fox poo smells, but I'm fairly sure it's not as much of a risk


Yeah, but I was thinking more that we're all outside, we're not breathing in each others exhalations, I don't like smoke, they might not like dogs. I might get a vague whiff of smoke, they might have to walk past my dog.

This was more in response to the fact that some people seem as though they might explode with rage if someone lit up in the same street as them - and my point, which maybe wasn't clear - is that there lots of things I don't like, but sometimes you just have to man up and get a grip. Big difference between taking offence with someone smoking close to you so you breathe in their smoke, or saying you don't agree with smoking in a house or car with animals in to someone having a cigarette and me walking past in the street or sitting outdoors relatively nearby to someone who has a cigarette...


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

DT said:


> And you need to lighten up sunbeam
> Or light up maybe as you sound stressed


Oh the irony


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'm hoping I'm right in saying your dogs aren't a health risk if other people inhale their fumes? I could be wrong, mine can be fairly whiffy sometimes, but I don't think their whiff could be considered as a carcinogen? I can't find any peer reviewed articles on the inhalation of fox poo smells, but I'm fairly sure it's not as much of a risk


Oh I don't know, my mental health is being seriously affected by fox poo at the moment.......... 4 times she rolled today 4 TIMES!!!!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Pointermum said:


> Your never going to find a study paper on your specific brand/type of tabacco, specificity on it's effects on dogs from 2nd hand smoke, does that mean you will just keep your head in the clouds until they do  When you could eliminate a lot risk by smoking outside and washing your hands when your done.


I find someone saying I have my 'head in the clouds' a bit silly really as it seems some people haven't thought about the differentials and scientific basis involved. and how I've come to my conclusions.

If 40% vodka over a long term caused a 1% risk of cancer, where is the 'common sense' and 'head in the clouds' by logically thinking that from a scientific health basis that 5% beer would be less of a risk of cancer than 40% vodka? (Awful analogy I know!)


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

missnaomi said:


> Yeah, but I was thinking more that we're all outside, we're not breathing in each others exhalations, I don't like smoke, they might not like dogs. I might get a vague whiff of smoke, they might have to walk past my dog.
> 
> This was more in response to the fact that some people seem as though they might explode with rage if someone lit up in the same street as them - and my point, which maybe wasn't clear - is that there lots of things I don't like, but sometimes you just have to man up and get a grip. Big difference between taking offence with someone smoking close to you so you breathe in their smoke, or saying you don't agree with smoking in a house or car with animals in to someone having a cigarette and me walking past in the street or sitting outdoors relatively nearby to someone who has a cigarette...


what about exhaust fumes?


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

As was said earlier smoking is rather less simple that it would first seem.

I started smoking after a traumatic event, I was 19, miles from home and didn't have anyone i could confide in about what happened, smoking actually gave me a reason to get away from people when I felt unable to handle them or the situation. I recognise now, for me, along with the the simple chemical addiction it was a crutch, it was something to lean on. 

Years later still smoking there was a whole culture around smoking standing sides by side were bankers and builders people who's paths would not ordinarily cross mixing, levelled by their guilty habit. The conversations were fascinating and enthralling.

I tried my best never to inflict my smoke on others, adults, children animals. There were strange occasions when i'd walked to the park from my office not smoking on the way as i appreciated it was unpleasant for anyone behind me. Sat as far from others as i could, even checking wind direction only to have someone sit next to me and tutting and fussing. (I wore a kaghoul when i smoked that was bag s after so my hair and clothes etc didn't smell and my colleagues didn't have to suffer.

Earlier this year i addressed the initial event and realised how tied into it smoking was and to let it go entirely i had to give up smoking and a week today it'll be 8 months.

Smoking a simple thing to give up?... not necessarily.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

foxyrockmeister said:


> I really don't think that suggesting that smoking or passive smoking is dangerous to health is hearsay or a vague notion!
> 
> I'm pretty sure you'd struggle to find evidence based scientific trials to prove that sticking pins in your or your dogs eyes is damaging, but common sense would suggest that it's probably not a very good idea.


The extent to which it is dangerous to health is in fact debatable, hence why I don't make up my mind without knowing. We can agree to disagree I'm sure. Living in a built up area, to me the risk of air pollution in the form of industry worries me a lot more than smoking does, but that's MY personal opinion. just as you have yours.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Oh I don't know, my mental health is being seriously affected by fox poo at the moment.......... 4 times she rolled today 4 TIMES!!!!


Is she doing a study on dog shampoo or tomato ketchup ?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

moonviolet said:


> As was said earlier smoking is rather less simple that it would first seem.
> 
> I started smoking after a traumatic event, I was 19, miles from home and didn't have anyone i could confide in about what happened, smoking actually gave me a reason to get away from people when I felt unable to handle them or the situation. I recognise now, for me, along with the the simple chemical addiction it was a crutch, it was something to lean on.
> 
> ...


Good post. I honestly don't believe that anyone who has never suffered a drug addiction is qualified to comment on how easy or how hard it is to beat said addictions.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I don't see how the knowledge that someone is or isn't a smoker makes a difference. If you smoke, the breath you exhale is second hand smoke, and your cigarette creates noxious fumes. Do you really need to know if someone else is a smoker or non smoker to simply be considerate, and do your best to ensure your habit doesn't impose on others around you?





dandogman said:


> Everything...
> 
> Smoker Nazi? some people would find that extremely offensive. Do you know what the Nazi's did?
> Yes 'she' should cross over. It her producing the chemicals not me!
> No, it isn't a question of what it legal. If she has happy with contributing to the potential of me developing lung cancer then she needs to look at her moral code.


The reply above (by Sleeping Lion) is an example of how a person can put their point across and still remain polite and reasonable. Maybe you could read it and see if you can learn something.

Of course I know what the Nazis did; don't patronise me. It's just a bloody expression, don't you dare try to make out it means more than I meant it to.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Has anyone read the short stories 'The Ten O'Clock People' or 'Quitters, Inc' by Stephen King?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Coffee said:


> The reply above (by Sleeping Lion) is an example of how a person can put their point across and still remain polite and reasonable. Maybe you could read it and see if you can learn something.
> 
> Of course I know what the Nazis did; don't patronise me. It's just a bloody expression, don't you dare try to make out it means more than I meant it to.


wow! a bit defensive! 
I will take it as I think appropriate thank you very much.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> Has anyone read the short stories 'The Ten O'Clock People' or 'Quitters, Inc' by Stephen King?


Quitters Inc was the best out of those 2 stories :thumbup1: , Theres no way id mess with that company


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Oh I don't know, my mental health is being seriously affected by fox poo at the moment.......... 4 times she rolled today 4 TIMES!!!!


I have a roller, and it's genetic!



Coffee said:


> The reply above (by Sleeping Lion) is an example of how a person can put their point across and still remain polite and reasonable. Maybe you could read it and see if you can learn something.
> 
> Of course I know what the Nazis did; don't patronise me. It's just a bloody expression, don't you dare try to make out it means more than I meant it to.


Hopefully without sounding patronising, there is over 20 years difference between me and the OP. I think some of the posts from *adults* in response to the posts have been less than adult tbh.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm gobsmacked that someone is trying to say that smoking may not necessarily be particulalry dangerous and bad for your health or to what extent it may be so. Ridiculous.

Come on, don't be thick just because you smoke and want to somehow defend that! Your choice to impose it on yourself, unfair to impose an animal. And here's some lovely pictures of smokers' lungs to disprove your very unscientific point:
smokers lungs after 5 years - Google Search


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

So whats this all about then> did I miss summat


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I don't see how the knowledge that someone is or isn't a smoker makes a difference. If you smoke, the breath you exhale is second hand smoke, and your cigarette creates noxious fumes. Do you really need to know if someone else is a smoker or non smoker to simply be considerate, and do your best to ensure your habit doesn't impose on others around you?


No of course not but it surely does make a difference whether you're in the company of a smoker or non-smoker? The smoker isn't going to care about the 2nd hand smoke, he/she will be producing enough of their own.

I just can't see how anyone can think it reasonable for someone smoking on the street to have to avoid every single person they might see?  I'm not talking about inconsiderate lighting up; around children, at a bus stop, in a queue for example. I'm referring to someone (let's say me for argument's sake) walking down the street, having a cigarette, minding my own business. A stranger approaches in the other direction... should I cross over? No, why the hell should I? We will pass each other in approx. 2 seconds if that... if it bothers said stranger so much that my 2 seconds of 2nd hand smoke might be such a nusiance then he/she can cross over.

There's so few places smokers are allowed to smoke these days... while I'm still allowed to have one on the street I will.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> I'm gobsmacked that someone is trying to say that smoking may not necessarily be particulalry dangerous and bad for your health. Come on, don't be thick just because you smoke and want to somehow defend that! Your choice to impose it on yourself, unfair to impose an animal. And here's some lvely pictures of smokers' lungs to disprove your very unscientific point:
> smokers lungs after 5 years - Google Search


I haven't seen anywhere someone has suggested smoking isn't harmful to the ACTUAL smoker themselves?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

OMG! I used to smoke near my fish Im a bad mummy
slap my wrists


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> I haven't seen anywhere someone has suggested smoking isn't harmful to the ACTUAL smoker themselves?


Apart from your post? 

If you're trying to put forward tha passive smoking may not be hugely dangerous, please let Roy Castle's widow know. I'm sure it will comfort her no end.


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

dandogman said:


> Smoking in the house with dogs?
> 
> No one in my house smokes, but just wondering, if people who smoke dog, do you smoke inside around your dog?
> 
> The reason I am asking is it has occured to me that people bang on (in a good way) about giving a really good quality food, lots of excersize, but I fail to see the point, if your dog is inhaling cigarette fumes...


You really did want to light the blue touch paper and stand back with this one didnt you.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> Apart from your post?
> 
> If you're trying to put forward tha passive smoking may not be hugely dangerous, please let Roy Castle's widow know. I'm sure it will comfort her no end.


Your post indicated the actual smoker, not others:

'I'm gobsmacked that someone is trying to say that smoking may not necessarily be particulalry dangerous and bad* for your health *or to what extent it may be so. Ridiculous. '

Your link was also to a SMOKERS lungs, not a passive smokers lungs so forgive me if I took it completely the wrong way but perhaps it was in the wording. Or perhaps I'm being daft today.

I can see why some people get riled about it but can't we just stay polite?


----------



## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> I haven't seen anywhere someone has suggested smoking isn't harmful to the ACTUAL smoker themselves?


Will this make up your mind? Or is the WHO biased, too? What sort of evidence do you want to see? 
Passive Smoking Does Cause Lung Cancer

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/89957.php


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> Good post. I honestly don't believe that anyone who has never suffered a drug addiction is qualified to comment on how easy or how hard it is to beat said addictions.


Not exactly. You can be knowledgeable and educated about something without having ever experienced it. Saying the above is like saying an orthopedic surgeon must have suffered broken a bone in order to be qualified to set breaks in others.

I don't have to have an addiction to any drug to know how hard it must be to quit. Or keeping with the needle in eyes theme, I don't have to poke a needle in to my eye to know it's going to hurt. Personal experience is great 'n all, but thank goodness we don't have to experience everything first hand to have knowledge about it!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

dandogman said:


> I will take it as I think appropriate thank you very much.


That is where I think the whole issue lies. I can find things offensive if would have a mind to and want to twist things. This goes to people smoking, taking up my favorite seat on a bus, being a different race/religion to me whatever. Both sides need to have some consideration for others and I believe, as has been shown in this thread, most smokers have that consideration. Can non-smokers say the same?


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

blossom21 said:


> You really did want to light the blue touch paper and stand back with this one didnt you.


Honestly, hand on heart, the intention of this thread was most certainly not as it turned out!


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

Goblin said:


> That is where I think the whole issue lies. I can find things offensive if would have a mind to and want to twist things. This goes to people smoking, taking up my favorite seat on a bus, being a different race/religion to me whatever. Both sides need to have some consideration for others and I believe, as has been shown in this thread, most smokers have that consideration. Can non-smokers say the same?


Well said Goblin.

I don't think most non-smokers have any consideration at all for smokers, no. Especially from what I've seen on this thread.

As I said several pages back, there's not many people more vilified than the smoker. Proper social outcasts we are


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

DT said:


> what about exhaust fumes?


I'm not in any way being funny but what do you mean?

My post was about how I don't see why people are so intolerant of others? I'm happy for others to smoke in my presence in public places even though I'm not a smoker and if I don't like it I'd move. Just the same as I put up with kids but I don't enjoy them being around. Other people put up with my dogs? What's this to do with exhaust fumes?

I guess I'm ok with fumes? But wouldn't like them piped directly into my house...but I don't really get the question?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Right!
here's my serious reply!
I was born in the fifties, my children in the seventies
People views on smoking then were vastly different to what they are today!
I the early seventies, when I was in my teens, smoking was portrayed as, sexy, elegant, and the thing to do! Cigerettes were given away at night clubs and many people smoked! When I had my children the first thing you were offered after delivering was a cigatette
But then, in them days, when you were pregnant you were told to eat liver, eggs etc etc etc 
BUT we are forty years on now! and research has proved that smoking is bad for you! There aint an idiot alive that dont know that!!
Times change whats good for you and whats bad for you changes! Any many of us 'smokers' are now ex smokers!
But *personally* cant be doing with these folk who preach and think they know it all! We knew it all forty years ago! OK we were proved wrong! 
And smokers need ALL the help they can get in quitting! For the SAKe of ALL those around them!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> The extent to which it is dangerous to health is in fact debatable, hence why I don't make up my mind without knowing. We can agree to disagree I'm sure. Living in a built up area, to me the risk of air pollution in the form of industry worries me a lot more than smoking does, but that's MY personal opinion. just as you have yours.


You mentioned it, not me, in your response to FRM above. No specific reference to one or the other. She mentioned both.



Phoolf said:


> I can see why some people get riled about it but can't we just stay polite?


I'm polite, but I can't ignore basic incorrect biology!



terencesmum said:


> Will this make up your mind? Or is the WHO biased, too? What sort of evidence do you want to see?
> Passive Smoking Does Cause Lung Cancer
> 
> MRI Shows Lung Damage In Passive Smokers


Good post ^^


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Goblin said:


> That is where I think the whole issue lies. I can find things offensive if would have a mind to and want to twist things. This goes to people smoking, taking up my favorite seat on a bus, being a different race/religion to me whatever. Both sides need to have some consideration for others and I believe, as has been shown in this thread, most smokers have that consideration. *Can non-smokers say the same?*


I will explain how I am taking your point to mean.

Smokers walking down the road, they are the ones producing the chemicals that will blow into my face, could be inhaled by me/my pets, they ultimately are at fault. 
I am walking down the road, minding my own business, I don't want smoke entering my body, I don't want that, otherwise I would smoke. They are causing the problem, me walking down the road is not affecting them in any way, shape or form. Why should I be considerate? What is there for me to be considerate about?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Not exactly. You can be knowledgeable and educated about something without having ever experienced it. Saying the above is like saying an orthopedic surgeon must have suffered broken a bone in order to be qualified to set breaks in others.
> 
> I don't have to have an addiction to any drug to know how hard it must be to quit. Or keeping with the needle in eyes theme, I don't have to poke a needle in to my eye to know it's going to hurt. Personal experience is great 'n all, but thank goodness we don't have to experience everything first hand to have knowledge about it!


I think it's more akin to an Orthopaedic Surgeon telling someone 'it doesnt hurt' when they've never broken a leg. Like with most things in life, you don't *really* know until you go through it. We can all imagine the heartache it is to lose a close relative, but you don't know the extent until it happens. I'm with you on the thank goodness part though, while a smoker I always discourage anyone from even trying one, nevermind taking up the bad habit.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

missnaomi said:


> I'm not in any way being funny but what do you mean?
> 
> My post was about how I don't see why people are so intolerant of others? I'm happy for others to smoke in my presence in public places even though I'm not a smoker and if I don't like it I'd move. Just the same as I put up with kids but I don't enjoy them being around. Other people put up with my dogs? What's this to do with exhaust fumes?
> 
> I guess I'm ok with fumes? But wouldn't like them piped directly into my house...but I don't really get the question?


I weren't meaning to quote you, it was a reply to your that I should have quoted sowwy


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> Will this make up your mind? Or is the WHO biased, too? What sort of evidence do you want to see?
> Passive Smoking Does Cause Lung Cancer
> 
> MRI Shows Lung Damage In Passive Smokers


It's good evidence and I took the time to read it (as I've said, I'm open to the debate). It seems like it proves that long term being around smoke (10+yrs) is very harmful. So what do you say to those who keep windows open, smoke at doorways etc? Is it the same? Would you then have to be in the environment for 20 years to have the same effect?

Again, I can appreciate it riles people, but I don't see why anyone is resistant to those who are inquisitive and asking questions.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

dandogman said:


> I will explain how I am taking your point to mean.
> 
> Smokers walking down the road, they are the ones producing the chemicals that will blow into my face, could be inhaled by me/my pets, they ultimately are at fault.
> I am walking down the road, minding my own business, I don't want smoke entering my body, I don't want that, otherwise I would smoke. They are causing the problem, me walking down the road is not affecting them in any way, shape or form. Why should I be considerate? What is there for me to be considerate about?


Hope you dont fart when you walk past me


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

DT said:


> Hope you dont fart when you walk past me


Wouldn't dream of it


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> You mentioned it, not me, in your response to FRM above. No specific reference to one or the other. She mentioned both.
> 
> I'm polite, but I can't ignore basic incorrect biology!
> 
> Good post ^^


I was originally talking about passive smoking. I don't think anyone has debated whether smoking is harmful to the smoker themselves, as said in the first post. It's not even really up for discussion.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Coffee said:


> I don't think most non-smokers have any consideration at all for smokers, no.


In what way? I think the idea is that your smoke should not impact on us: I don't see how as a non smoker I would impact on you?

What sort of consideration do you mean? Serious question.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

Goblin said:


> That is where I think the whole issue lies. I can find things offensive if would have a mind to and want to twist things. This goes to people smoking, taking up my favorite seat on a bus, being a different race/religion to me whatever. Both sides need to have some consideration for others and I believe, as has been shown in this thread, most smokers have that consideration. Can non-smokers say the same?


Careful... Race is not a choice. Religion and smoking are.

Now *I* am offended that you would compare me not wanting someone to smoke around my kids to racism! And I shall twist your words to prove my point if I have to! 

But seriously though, second hand smoke IS harmful. (Yes, as are many things). I as an adult have the choice to limit my exposure to second hand smoke. I can avoid places where there will be smokers, I can move away if someone decides to light up near me, I can wear a gas mask if I feel the need. But children and dogs do not always have that choice. That is the rub...


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Well I've never felt so ill as I have since I packed up smoking 

53 years on this earth feeling fine and very healthy, give up smoking and feel like poo since


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Strangely enuff I do believe that smoking is harmful to those that smoke!
I also think that 'partners' children' pets' that are subjested to secondhand smoke are at risk!
BUT smoking in the open I judge is no worse than a car thats exhaust emissions are higher than those of us who run green cars


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> It's good evidence and I took the time to read it (as I've said, I'm open to the debate). It seems like it proves that long term being around smoke (10+yrs) is very harmful. So what do you say to those who keep windows open, smoke at doorways etc? Is it the same? Would you then have to be in the environment for 20 years to have the same effect?
> 
> Again, I can appreciate it riles people, but I don't see why anyone is resistant to those who are inquisitive and asking questions.


I am all for being inquisitive and asking questions. It's my job to do that. As I said in a previous post, there are 1000s of articles saying passive smoking is bad. I haven't posted links because they require institutional log-in. 

And I think you know the answer to your questions you posted above.


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## Coffee (Jul 31, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> In what way? I think the idea is that your smoke should not impact on us: I don't see how as a non smoker I would impact on you?
> 
> What sort of consideration do you mean? Serious question.


Not thinking of us as filthy, disgusting social outcasts for a start would be nice. Maybe a little more acceptance when I am standing outside a pub having a cigarette because I'm not allowed to smoke inside anymore... you (general 'you' I mean, the non smoking public) should be happy surely that smoking is pretty much banned in all public places now... having a stress that we're smoking outside is a little much, no?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

dandogman said:


> I will explain how I am taking your point to mean.
> 
> Smokers walking down the road, they are the ones producing the chemicals that will blow into my face, could be inhaled by me/my pets, they ultimately are at fault.
> I am walking down the road, minding my own business, I don't want smoke entering my body, I don't want that, otherwise I would smoke. They are causing the problem, me walking down the road is not affecting them in any way, shape or form. Why should I be considerate? What is there for me to be considerate about?


Do you drive. That produces smoke. Do you stop if a pedestrian is nearby until they pass? What's good for the goose is good for the gander as they say. What about your dog (neutral subject as we all have them here). Owning dogs you are contributing quite a bit to global warming (strange fact I know but nevermind). Are you going to stop as you are damaging the planet? How many people are you therefore affecting? Or is it only when you personally are "affected" by others you draw the line?

Why not cross the road. Doesn't do you any harm after all (unless potentially you don't look first).


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Still dont know what this is all about! can someone fill me in please Only came in at page 23


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> I am all for being inquisitive and asking questions. It's my job to do that. As I said in a previous post, there are 1000s of articles saying passive smoking is bad. I haven't posted links because they require institutional log-in.
> 
> And I think you know the answer to your questions you posted above.


I don't know the answer, which is why I asked. I agree smoking in an environment with no ventilation is bad, but how less bad is it to smoke with a window open etc? Geniune question. And how 'less bad' is it to smoke additive free tobacco than say a Marlboro Light with grams of tar and 1000s of chemicals in? Common sense to me says one would be much worse, and much more harmful than the other.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

rona said:


> Well I've never felt so ill as I have since I packed up smoking
> 
> 53 years on this earth feeling fine and very healthy, give up smoking and feel like poo since


((((((((rona)))))))))))


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

DT said:


> ((((((((rona)))))))))))


WHAT?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

rona said:


> Well I've never felt so ill as I have since I packed up smoking
> 
> 53 years on this earth feeling fine and very healthy, give up smoking and feel like poo since


My dad switched his nicotine addiction to a tennis addiction. His body isn't thanking him after all the ankle twists, back pain, sores and tennis elbow he's had to endure. :lol:


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> I don't know the answer, which is why I asked. I agree smoking in an environment with no ventilation is bad, but how less bad is it to smoke with a window open etc? Geniune question. And how 'less bad' is it to smoke additive free tobacco than say a Marlboro Light with grams of tar and 1000s of chemicals in? Common sense to me says one would be much worse, and much more harmful than the other.


Turns out they appear to be WORSE than normal cigarettes.
Nicotine delivery from smoking bidis and an... [Nicotine Tob Res. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> It seems like it proves that long term being around smoke (10+yrs) is very harmful. So what do you say to those who keep windows open, smoke at doorways etc?


I remember a fairly recent advert with the parent smoking out of the window or away from the baby and the majority of the smoke still impacting on the child. You don't see the smoke or noxious fumes floating round, but they're there.

Must say, we passed a point in the woods today where we always used to stop for a *** and we nearly stopped! The OH then said that on holiday this year, it'll be the first time we won't be requesting a smoking room that already stinks before we even get in there!  We won't be desperate for a *** coming off the plane or worried that our emergency lighter gets taken off us at the airport.

I have to say, I'm relieved to no longer be dependent on smoking and not having the impact on where we stay, when we stop, when we leave somewhere, leaving friends while we nip outside for a ***.

Re the giving up: I think it's a bit like anything eg diet. Your head has to be in the right place and you have to want to do it. No point anyone telling you to do it and some people just like smoking and don't _want_ to give up.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Why not cross the road. Doesn't do you any harm after all (unless potentially you don't look first).


Might be a good idea if they don't


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> Turns out they appear to be WORSE than normal cigarettes.
> Nicotine delivery from smoking bidis and an... [Nicotine Tob Res. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI


How interesting....

Why do they both putting chemicals in cigs then if they can hurt you as much without? :lol:


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

rona said:


> WHAT?


just sendng you a hug


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> I remember a fairly recent advert with the parent smoking out of the window or away from the baby and the majority of the smoke still impacting on the child. You don't see the smoke or noxious fumes floating round, but they're there.
> 
> Must say, we passed a point in the woods today where we always used to stop for a *** and we nearly stopped! The OH then said that on holiday this year, it'll be the first time we won't be requesting a smoking room that already stinks before we even get in there!  We won't be desperate for a *** coming off the plane or worried that our emergency lighter gets taken off us at the airport.
> 
> ...


You're completely right about the head space thing. About 4 years ago I was in the right frame of mind to stop, I was sick of it, so I stopped cold turkey as I thought I was stronger than the cigs. After 3 months I had an argument with someone and I've smoked ever since. I always said next time around, when I'm ready, I'll ask the GP for help with cessation aids etc. so I can make it more permanent. Maybe the day will be soon! I would like to stop, but as you say you can't until you're ready.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> How interesting....
> 
> Why do they both putting chemicals in cigs then if they can hurt you as much without? :lol:


It's like advertising diet foods, I suppose. You "think" it's better but it's just as bad.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> It's like advertising diet foods, I suppose. You "think" it's better but it's just as bad.


How odd! Just proves how susceptible we are fads I suppose, not that that's anything new. I'm not going to pretend I'll stop smoking indoors or around Kes, but at least debates like this make you think about it more


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I dont smoke i doesnt bother me if someone passes me in the street who smokes its a big enough place to get out of the way if needed.

But iv been at bus stops before where people are there smoking i think thats ignorant i have no choice to stand there.It doesnt bother me that its harmful i just hate the smell that bad i cant breathe.

I reckon we have to compromise.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

DT said:


> just sendng you a hug


:yikes::yikes::yikes:

I'm scared now as well as feeling crap 

No one but no one gives/sends me hugs!!!!!!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> How odd! Just proves how susceptible we are fads I suppose, not that that's anything new. I'm not going to pretend I'll stop smoking indoors or around Kes, but *at least debates like this make you think about it more*


I'd say that is all anybody can hope for.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Reckon the mods must be on a *** break! they all gone quiet


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I saw tash out behind the bike sheds just minutes ago!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Coffee said:


> How arrogant.
> 
> How on earth are they supposed to know you object to smoking? For all they know you could be a 20 a day person yourself. If you don't like what someone is doing then YOU should move away from them.
> 
> I am gobsmacked at your egotistic attitude.


What is egotistical about not wanting to inhale cigarette smoke. I dont know how many times I hold my breath when I notice a cigarette, and the times I do not notice it I feel ill. The fact that is legal is beside the point. It would not be such a long lasting stink but it would be fairly foul to walk up behind someone that did a huge curry fart - it would not be illegal but it would be pretty inconsiderate.



Goblin said:


> For those going on about how much smokers cost the NHS. Any studies done which actually work it out, not short term but long term taking age of death into account. Smokers kill themselves and may need short term health care which may be expensive. Non smokers live longer and potentially need more medical care in the long term. Which works out as more expensive at the end of the day?
> 
> When I first came to Germany over 10 years ago I was amazed at how common smoking was and where smoking was allowed. There were no "no smoking" areas in cafe's for example. It's got a lot better over time but I do not think smokers should be ostracized providing they show consideration for those who don't like smoke (another bugbear of mine when I first arrived). On the other side anti smoking fanaticism is also unacceptable.


No smoking areas in cafes were useless anyway, because the whole area still stunk. There was once a clothes shop above a local cafe. They had a closing down sale and I stupidly bought some clothes and had to throw them away because I could not get the smell of cigarettes out of them. And this was not from smoking in the upstairs shop, it was from smoke going through the ceiling.



Coffee said:


> Well said Goblin.
> 
> I don't think most non-smokers have any consideration at all for smokers, no. Especially from what I've seen on this thread.
> 
> As I said several pages back, there's not many people more vilified than the smoker. Proper social outcasts we are


I have no consideration for smokers - same as they have no consideration for me.



Coffee said:


> Not thinking of us as filthy, disgusting social outcasts for a start would be nice. Maybe a little more acceptance when I am standing outside a pub having a cigarette because I'm not allowed to smoke inside anymore... you (general 'you' I mean, the non smoking public) should be happy surely that smoking is pretty much banned in all public places now... having a stress that we're smoking outside is a little much, no?


erm, no, I think smoking should be banned outside pubs too. In actual fact most of the places pub smokers stand is actually too close to the door to be legal according to our MP anyway.
Not so long ago we went out for a lovely meal. It was so nice, I still had the taste in my mouth and was looking forward to a pleasant drive home afterwards. Trouble is the only way out was through a band of smokers, absolutely no way round them. In spite of holding my breath till I nearly burst and holding something over my face my meal became a distant memory and it was about an hour before the disgusting smell went from my mouth.

I think it is about time that smokers realised just how offensive they smell. It is on their breath, their clothes, their skin. I know if someone smokes the moment I meet them. Even though smoking has been banned in restaurants for a long time people still go out for **** and come back in and puff bad breath all over the poor people eating at tables they pass by. Are you smokers even aware of this - does it not embarrass you. I would die of shame if I thought I was causing anything like this. Just imagine if you walked by a table of eaters and farted, you would be mortified - what the heck is the difference.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Coffee said:


> Not thinking of us as filthy, disgusting social outcasts for a start would be nice. Maybe a little more acceptance when I am standing outside a pub having a cigarette because I'm not allowed to smoke inside anymore... you (general 'you' I mean, the non smoking public) should be happy surely that smoking is pretty much banned in all public places now... having a stress that we're smoking outside is a little much, no?


Don't think that cos I'm an ex smoker. Acceptance is not what you're gonna get though cos we're far too aware of what smoking does and as posted, passive smoking too.

It does annoy me that I might have to pass a little huddle of smokers and unless I rather offensively cross the road, I'm going to get a lungful. Walking past companies in London, I'm amazed at the amount of smokers directly outside the building, not a good impression. At my work, there's a little alley where the smokers go. It's a frequently used cut through for visitors, parents, kids. I think that's pretty dreadful. One house owner came out and asked them to move as the smoke was getting into his newborn's bedroom.

I know in some states in America, you can't smoke in your own garden because it impacts on the neighbours.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

It's not the smell of the smoke that annoys me, it's the deceit. I got suspicious when he started asking to go outside for toilet breaks. In the morning I'd go out and there'd be no poo though.

Then, on our walks, he'd disappear into the woods for ages....said he was just "doing stuff with sticks"

Started losing interest in running for the frisbee....wheezing all the time.....just lacking in general zip.

Look at the state of him now....it's all very upsetting.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

cinammontoast said:


> I know in some states in America, you can't smoke in your own garden because it impacts on the neighbours.


I think that is a great law. It makes me laugh that so many smokers go in their garden because they do not want to contaminate their own house and puff into next door's house through their open windows.
We let out a house and every tenant we have had has been a smoker and we do not allow smoking in it so they stand at their back door puffing smoke into next door's kitchen and then sling the *** end on the ground.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

Blitz said:


> I have no consideration for smokers - same as they have no consideration for me.


Bit of a blanket statement don't you think? Not all smokers are inconsiderate


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Blitz said:


> What is egotistical about not wanting to inhale cigarette smoke. I dont know how many times I hold my breath when I notice a cigarette, and the times I do not notice it I feel ill. The fact that is legal is beside the point. It would not be such a long lasting stink but it would be fairly foul to walk up behind someone that did a huge curry fart - it would not be illegal but it would be pretty inconsiderate.
> 
> No smoking areas in cafes were useless anyway, because the whole area still stunk. There was once a clothes shop above a local cafe. They had a closing down sale and I stupidly bought some clothes and had to throw them away because I could not get the smell of cigarettes out of them. And this was not from smoking in the upstairs shop, it was from smoke going through the ceiling.
> 
> ...


Same as them with BO do, or perfume that I don;t like do and them that exhaust fumes really do bother me! Im an EX smoker an it dont bother me!
But sick to death of these bloody holyier than thou folk who are always druming it down the throats of them that do!


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

cinammontoast said:


> I know in some states in America, you can't smoke in your own garden because it impacts on the neighbours.


What states?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> Bit of a blanket statement don't you think? Not all smokers are inconsiderate


No, you are right they are not. It was a bit of a tongue in cheek statement. Sadly though, like dog owners, they will all get tarred with the same brush because the only ones you notice are the inconsiderate ones. Which does seem to be an awful lot!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> What states?


Perhaps they mean places with strict HOA's


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

In my neighbourhood the houses are too far apart for it to make a difference. There's 20 feet at least between my house and the neighbours. I don't allow smokin pot in my house so anyone that I know that smokes pot does it outside in the yard....(Not that I know anyone that does that) or in cold weather I set up a bar in my garage just for them to have a place to sit at.....


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Bit of a blanket statement don't you think? Not all smokers are inconsiderate


Blinkered! her sh*t dont smell


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

ouesi said:


> What states?


Think I meant municipalities (local councils), saw one in California somewhere.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

dandogman said:


> Honestly, hand on heart, the intention of this thread was most certainly not as it turned out!


Oh well never mind, it's given us all something to read 



dandogman said:


> I will explain how I am taking your point to mean.
> 
> Smokers walking down the road, they are the ones producing the chemicals that will blow into my face, could be inhaled by me/my pets, they ultimately are at fault.
> I am walking down the road, minding my own business, I don't want smoke entering my body, I don't want that, otherwise I would smoke. They are causing the problem, me walking down the road is not affecting them in any way, shape or form. Why should I be considerate? What is there for me to be considerate about?





cinammontoast said:


> In what way? I think the idea is that your smoke should not impact on us: I don't see how as a non smoker I would impact on you?
> 
> What sort of consideration do you mean? Serious question.


Smoking impacts on anyone near by. But so do plenty of other things, someone walking by with perfume on is enough to make my eyes burn, vehicle fumes, dog poo on pavements and grass (potentially dangerous as we all know), chemicals from cleaning products in water, hormones in water from tablets !! All are unpleasant and could be dangerous.
But as this is really about smoking and pets.................
I am a smoker (I gave up earlier this year but stupidly re-started ) I don't smoke indoors, near my pets or near non-smokers. In my garden I go to the far end so the smoke doesn't affect my neighbours although those immediately either side do smoke as well. I don't drop the butts on the floor.

Wow, reading that through I almost sound angelic


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

cinammontoast said:


> Think I meant municipalities (local councils), saw one in California somewhere.


San Rafael banned smoking in duplexes and condominiums - where multiple families share an outdoor area. That's a far cry from some states not allowing you to smoke in your own yard.

The constitution is pretty protective of what you can do on your own property which is why I was surprised by your initial statement.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

Dandogman....I was actually going to start a thread just like this one.....I'm so glad I didn't now.:lol:

I've been sitting here chainsmoking since I started reading so I hold you personally responsible for this extra damage to my health :lol:



dandogman said:


> Smoking in the house with dogs?
> 
> No one in my house smokes, but just wondering, *if people who smoke dog*, do you smoke inside around your dog?


Never tried smoking dog but she's looking mighty tempting right about now...:lol:

ETA - can't believe nobody noticed this typo!!!


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

erinn said:


> Never tried smoking dog but she's looking mighty tempting right about now...:lol:


33 pages later someone finally reads the OP carefully! :lol:

For the record, I am fully against smoking dog. Impractical and unnecessary!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

DT said:


> Blinkered! her sh*t dont smell


that is just rude and childish. Not that many people **** in front of others strangely enough and I did say farting was just as offensive as smoking, though not so long lasting.

I also said that my comment was tongue in cheek. Unlike yours.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

ouesi said:


> 33 pages later someone finally reads the OP carefully! :lol:
> 
> For the record, I am fully against smoking dog. Impractical and unnecessary!


Yeeeaaaa.....they'd be quite hard to roll up too......:lol:


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Blitz said:


> that is just rude and childish. Not that many people **** in front of others strangely enough and I did say farting was just as offensive as smoking, though not so long lasting.
> 
> I also said that my comment was tongue in cheek. Unlike yours.


I am not being childish!!! seriuosly my eyes literally stream with a number of substances ! OK so I am sat next to you in a restuarant and your perfume is really playing havoc with my eyes!! Seriously!!! I can barely see now as we have had a GAS fire on for less then 15 mins my eyes are terribly sensittive and easily irritated I can barely see! It could be your perfume setting it off!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I just have to add that to those who think roll ups are healthier in some way I just thought I'd say that I saw my Grandfather suffer the worst death I have ever seen through lung cancer which spread to his brain and he was a smoker of roll ups and he too held the belief they were less harmful too.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Before blitz replies! seriouly I can hardy see because OH had the gas fire on earlier, and this does seriously affect my eyes! So shes sat next to me in a returant and her perfume is irriating me! what rights do I have???? NONE
STRANGE as it may seem tt aint only smoking that causes irritation


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I just have to add that to those who think roll ups are healthier in some way I just thought I'd say that I saw my Grandfather suffer the worst death I have ever seen through lung cancer which spread to his brain and he was a smoker of roll ups and he too held the belief they were less harmful too.


No cigarettes nor smoking are harmful , no one is disputing that! My mother NEVER put a cigarette in her mouth EVER and suffered a similar death!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Mods! maybe its time to close this thread


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

ouesi said:


> San Rafael banned smoking in duplexes and condominiums - where multiple families share an outdoor area. That's a far cry from some states not allowing you to smoke in your own yard.
> 
> The constitution is pretty protective of what you can do on your own property which is why I was surprised by your initial statement.


My bad, don't know American law! But am I right in saying that in Canada, some companies banned perfume due to potential problems?



DT said:


> Before blitz replies! seriouly I can hardy see because OH had the gas fire on earlier, and this does seriously affect my eyes! So shes sat next to me in a returant and her perfume is irriating me! what rights do I have???? NONE
> STRANGE as it may seem tt aint only smoking that causes irritation


Two people at work wear perfume that makes me gag. I can't be in the same room as them! How can they think it's nice and why do they bath in it daily?!


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

erinn said:


> Dandogman....I was actually going to start a thread just like this one.....I'm so glad I didn't now.:lol:
> 
> I've been sitting here chainsmoking since I started reading so I hold you personally responsible for this extra damage to my health :lol:
> 
> ...




Oh my gosh! Now everyone knows! bum!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Have to agree that certain perfumes make me sneeze like mad. I dont find the smell offensive though.....just one of my many allergies. Though the sneezing is annoying....it wont shorten my life (I hope....lol).


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> I just have to add that to those who think roll ups are healthier in some way I just thought I'd say that I saw my Grandfather suffer the worst death I have ever seen through lung cancer which spread to his brain and he was a smoker of roll ups and he too held the belief they were less harmful too.


I smoke roll ups - no idea if they're 'healthier' or not, TBH with roll-ups you smoke more than 'normal' cigarettes so more than likely not!!

However, loose tobacco is cheaper hence why I smoke it.

This thread has gone waaaaaaay off topic.

Bet now we're going to have a debate on Cigarettes Vs Roll-ups............


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

dandogman said:


> [/B]
> 
> Oh my gosh! Now everyone knows! bum!


Well, if you will insist on splitting your attention between this and studying....


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

gotta agree time for this to close...and this time I will remember......


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

chichi said:


> Have to agree that certain perfumes make me sneeze like mad. I dont find the smell offensive though.....just one of my many allergies. Though the sneezing is annoying....it wont shorten my life (I hope....lol).


I am 'terribly; sensitive to GAS and several perfumes


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