# painrelief in dogs



## dawns1969 (Aug 12, 2009)

my dog was recently spayed, my vet took everything out. My question is she also recommended given her paracetamol as pain relief when i bought her home, she is a large Lab. I have spoken to some others and they say the vet should not have done this because animals cannot take human medicine.

Now the people saying this were not trained vets so im wondering who was right, are there any vets out there who can help.

All I gave her was one tablet twice a day for two days, please dont tell me i have hurt her by doing this


----------



## Petloversdigest (Dec 10, 2010)

I have heard of vets doing this before - but if you gave the tablets a few days ago and there have been no obvious after effects, I'm sure you can put the incident behind you and not worry too much - I saw an article recently which suggests that it is common practice to give paracetamol to dogs in the States.


----------



## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm sure your dog will be fine. I think its the long term effects that can be damaging and you only administered the tablets for two days.


----------



## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

Paracetamol and asprin is not suitable to dogs as Toxic to them
Best not to give her any more


----------



## dawns1969 (Aug 12, 2009)

I just wondered why a trained vet would recommend it then? and as stated above its common practise in the USA, someone has suggested Metacam can i get that from the vet


----------



## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

why didn't the vet prescribe Metacam? it's the main painrelief for dogs.


----------



## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Our vet always gives painkillers after spaying although I can't remember what he gave us now but it wasn't paracetamol. I asked him once if there was any human painkiller I could give as an emergency and he said childrens aspirin is the best.


----------



## dawns1969 (Aug 12, 2009)

she didnt even give me the option of buying metacam just told me paracetamol, you expect the vet to know what they are doing and that the advice they give is the correct advice.


----------



## wooliewoo (May 27, 2008)

Not heard of vets giving paracetamol but i do know they give tramadol as pain relief (and methadone which i was shocked at seeing on my dogs breakdown after her op)


----------



## Guest (Feb 26, 2011)

mollymo said:


> Paracetamol and asprin is not suitable to dogs as Toxic to them
> Best not to give her any more


Have you got any credible links to back that up?


----------



## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

The O'Mali's Dad said:


> Have you got any credible links to back that up?


No I have not....but I do read alot and paracetamol is toxic to dogs and can affect the liver Im led to believe.
So I would never put my dog at risk and prefer to use vet meds.


----------



## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I have had paracetamol suggested to me in the past (although must confess to being too cautious to actually try it) - however

Source: Arthritis in the Dog

"Of all the drugs in common use in veterinary medicine, NSAIDs show the greatest differences in toxicity between species. This means that a drug that is very safe if one species can be very toxic to another. Good examples of this are:


Paracetamol - this is very safe in people and dogs, but a single dose of a quarter 500mg tablet can be fatal to cats. 
Ibuprofen - this is very safe in people, but toxic to dogs. 
Phenylbutazone - this is very safe in the dog, but was banned for use in man (except for certain special circumstances), because of serious adverse effects.

It is very important that you do not give any pain killer to an animal without veterinary advice first. It's best to insist on being prescribed a veterinary licensed product on all occasions

==========================

One of my girls was given Tramadol after major surgery (a human med) and I've also had one of my girls have a short course of diazepam (another human med) when we needed to rest her because of a bad leg (and we actually got a script from the vet to obtain this from the local pharmact).

Dogs are also prescribed Atarax and Piriton and various other 'human' medications - the problem is - unless under veterinary supervision, you don't know what a 'safe' dose would be - which creates an additional problem - because - the vets usually charge about 10 times what you can get them for OTC or on private prescription from the local pharmacy 

Having said all the above - I ALWAYS keep a bottle of Benilyn in the house, and if any of my dogs start coughing - whether it turns out to be scratched throat - or Kennel Cough - they get this combined with honey - works a treat  (and my vets know I do this)

Having said that - I wouldn't give Benilyn to a pup - and always keep a very careful eye on any of my gang if they do have it (and believe me - they don't like the taste of it either ) - Honey OTOH - both dogs and puppies alike LOVE it :lol:

I have also used Canestan Cream on one of my girls when she was found to have a fungal infection in her ear while pregnant (because obviously all vet products had steroids in them) - it worked a treat 

===========

If you have now stopped the paracetamol, I wouldn't worry too much - but to anyone considering doing this in the future, I would suggest doing extensive research, and ideally speaking to a vet first.

Overdoses of paracetamol are dangerous full stop - because they give no signs of OD until it is too late to stop the damage - hence why dosage is crucially important.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dawns1969 said:


> she didnt even give me the option of buying metacam just told me paracetamol, you expect the vet to know what they are doing and that the advice they give is the correct advice.


My old vet used to say to give paracetamol after an operation, or when Sammy had a blood clot removed from his ear, he told me Calpol 6+ which is only liquid paracetamol. I doubt it will do any harm.

The tramadol they give to dogs is exactly the same stuff as for humans.


----------



## Guest (Feb 26, 2011)

mollymo said:


> No I have not....but I do read alot and *paracetamol is toxic to dogs and can affect the liver *Im led to believe.
> So I would never put my dog at risk and prefer to use vet meds.


As can any drug if you OD on it.

In small doses its quite safe.


----------



## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

Pardale is paracetamol and codeine, available on prescription for dogs. So paracetamol is safe for dogs. The dose for paracetamol is 10mg per kg weight 5-6hourly up to max 4 times a day.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

What a crap vet! I'd have been fuming TBH, a hysterectomy is a mighty big op and the least she could have prescribed is Metacam or Rimadyl, as they have anti inflammtory qualities as well as pain reliever. 

I'd change vets from now, even my boys had Metacam for five days after being neutered!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

OllieBob said:


> Pardale is paracetamol and codeine, available on prescription for dogs. So paracetamol is safe for dogs. The dose for paracetamol is 10mg per kg weight 5-6hourly up to max 4 times a day.


Spot on! I think that people get the idea that paracetamol is toxic to dogs because there is a fine line between a theraputic dose and a toxic dose - and as dogs come in all shapes and sizes it is vital to know the correct mg per kg ratio as in some cases even half a tablet can be too much.

For example, a dog weighing around 20kg (border collie) would only need 200mg of paracetamol - and not only is that is less than half a tablet, it is virtually impossible to get the dose correct using an ordinary 500mg tablet for human consumption. You need to use syrup (Calpol) or a vet preparation at the correct dosage.

At the correct dosage it is a very safe preparation to use. At the wrong dosage it is very toxic - just as it is in humans.


----------



## Guest (Feb 26, 2011)

Malmum said:


> What a crap vet! I'd have been fuming TBH, a hysterectomy is a mighty big op and the least she could have prescribed is Metacam or Rimadyl, as they have anti inflammtory qualities as well as pain reliever.
> 
> I'd change vets from now, even my boys had Metacam for five days after being neutered!


I suppose it depends on what was said etc.

Maybe he is actually a good vet by not dishing out and charging for meds the dog may be able to do without.

Why or what does it matter to the vet? at the end of the day,its all money for him/her.

Maybe he was trying to save the OP some money.

Metacam=£10.00
Paracetemol=£1.00


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I'd rather pay the money TBH - I work in a hospital and paracetamol alone is never given after a hysterectomy, just the same op, only on a dog!


----------



## Guest (Feb 26, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I'd rather pay the money TBH - I work in a hospital and paracetamol alone is never given after a hysterectomy, just the same op, only on a dog!


But dogs dont feel pain in the same way as humans.

I would rather pay but some times you have to trust the pro's. As I say what does it matter to the vet how much $ you have to part with?

I had a dog once that had a cracked K9 tooth and the vat said it will cause him no pain. In a human you would be in agony.

The same when a stick went right through my bitch's tongue, like as in a 2cm hole and the vet said it wont bother her.Can you imagine that happening to you!


----------



## Petloversdigest (Dec 10, 2010)

OllieBob said:


> Pardale is paracetamol and codeine, available on prescription for dogs. So paracetamol is safe for dogs. The dose for paracetamol is 10mg per kg weight 5-6hourly up to max 4 times a day.


Just had a quick look at the literature- in an article 'MAKING INFORMED DECISIONS ON NSAIDS: COX STORY UNCOVERED by
JILL MADDISON (vet) she suggests that although all NSAIDs have the potential to cause gastric ulceration by inhibiting prostaglandins,the exception appears to be paracetamol, as it only inhibits prostaglandin synthesis centrally.
So that might make it slightly safer to give, after all...
Sorry not to give a link to the whole article, but its on a password restricted site (vet times)


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

The O'Mali's Dad said:


> I suppose it depends on what was said etc.
> 
> Maybe he is actually a good vet by not dishing out and charging for meds the dog may be able to do without.
> 
> ...


That is precisely what my vet said when Sammy had his ear done: I can sell you some expensive vet medicine, but paracetamol's just as good.


----------



## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

Paracetamol works as a weak prostaglandin inhibitor. It achieves this by blocking the production of prostaglandins, which are chemicals involved in the transmission of the pain message to the brain. In this regard, paracetamol is different from Aspirin and NSAIDs in that it blocks the pain message at the brain and not at the source of the pain, as the others do. 

Paracetamol, however, does not reduce inflammation or the swelling of the skin or joints. This is because paracetamol has no clinically useful anti-inflammatory properties. 

Paracetamol is also an antipyretic that can reduce fever by affecting the part of the brain known as the hypothalamus that regulates the temperature of the body.


----------



## dawns1969 (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks you every one for all your responses. I have taken everything onboard that has been written. In future I will make sure I ask loads of questions. I was more concerned with getting her home at the time, and just took what the vet said at face value


----------



## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

When mine was a pup she had cystitis. Because she was so young, I rang the vets in the evening for a bit of advice. The vet said to give her 1/4 paracetamol and plenty of fluids. If she wasnt better in the morning, to pop her to the surgery. 
At the surgery, a different vet said now way should I give her paracetamol. I was all wrapped up in getting my little pup sorted that I didnt address the issue but it's played on my mind ever since and seriously dented my faith in the practice for quite some time.


----------



## Guest (Feb 27, 2011)

Mum2Heidi said:


> When mine was a pup she had cystitis. Because she was so young, I rang the vets in the evening for a bit of advice. The vet said to give her 1/4 paracetamol and plenty of fluids. If she wasnt better in the morning, to pop her to the surgery.
> At the surgery, a different vet said now way should I give her paracetamol. I was all wrapped up in getting my little pup sorted that I didnt address the issue but it's played on my mind ever since and seriously dented my faith in the practice for quite some time.


The vet who told you that you cannot give is wrong and only wants you to part with you hard earned cash for "other" stuff.


----------



## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

That's what concerned me - he is the head of the practice so to speak, def been there the longest and until the moment, I had the ultimate faith in him.

He seemed to be back to his old professional self when I rushed my dog in last week, so I'm feeling a bit happier. Didnt want to hastily write him off after 20+ years of faultless service.


----------



## Guest (Feb 27, 2011)

Mum2Heidi said:


> That's what concerned me - *he is the head of the practice so to speak,* def been there the longest and until the moment, I had the ultimate faith in him.
> 
> He seemed to be back to his old professional self when I rushed my dog in last week, so I'm feeling a bit happier. Didnt want to hastily write him off after 20+ years of faultless service.


There you go,says it all  gotta turn a profit anyway possible at every oppertunity


----------



## sue&harvey (Mar 10, 2010)

The O'Mali's Dad said:


> There you go,says it all  gotta turn a profit anyway possible at every oppertunity


I do have to say I use the same vets and this is one that I can honestly say in my experience are not out for every penny. They were really good when Harvey was poorly, and never charged a consultation fee. Only charged for the actual treatment. As I say only my experience here.

I have found a big difference in some of their opinions though. One was quite dismissive over our concerns about Harvey, but the other was brill, and really went the extra mile for us.

I can't say I would be too quick to use human meds, unless they were licenced for animals. Just me though.


----------



## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I dont feel it was pure profit making

This time he gave me advice over the phone the morning after our visit - didnt insist I bring her in.
Also put out another sachet of Lectade for me to collect in case I need it, which I can return for a refund if I dont use it. He asked me to ring the following day with a progress report. Again, could have insisted on an appointment.

For me the issue was the conflicting opinions within the practice and wondering if I had done right or wrong.


----------



## dawns1969 (Aug 12, 2009)

I have found such a difference of opinion on this matter. Many people I have spoken to have also been told paracetamol. Seems that dogs can take it but not cats, only in small doses and only for a short period of time.


----------



## Guest (Feb 28, 2011)

dawns1969 said:


> I have found such a difference of opinion on this matter. Many people I have spoken to have also been told paracetamol. Seems that dogs can take it but not cats, only in small doses and only for a short period of time.


Its not so much small doses,it should be the correct dose.

Same in humans.


----------



## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

Paracetamol is a very good pain relief and i know many vets who will advocate its use in animals!
Dose rate is one per 20-25kg.
Some vets will say use that rather than sell an expensive bottle of pills/liquid to help keep the costs down. many threads on here about how expensive veterinary treatment is, quite a change to hear a complaint about not been given the expensive pain killers.
TBH most vets only started using painkillers in the last few years......gone are the days when the old vet would shove the farm cat down a welly to castrate him....no ga and ur right no painkillers!!


----------



## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

When our dog was spayed we were given three days worth of morphine. It was in syringes and we just squirted it into her mouth each morning. It was included in the cost of the surgery.

And I think it was to keep her down and let her body heal more than anything. Day four she started trying to run around everywhere again.

How's she doing now Dawns? Poor thing, you feel so sorry for them.


----------

