# How to 'control' your dog on a show lead?



## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

After seeing Maggie's breeder at Crufts, she mentioned again about me showing. I had some idea of giving it a go when Maggie was a pup, and took her to ringcraft classes. However, after a horrendous class one week, where Maggie slipped her collar, and charged around the room, followed by the next week, one of the handlers hitting Maggie  I am somewhat traumatised. She was only 5 months at the time that she slipped her collar and caused chaos. Even now though, she still occasionally has temper tantrums on lead out on walks etc where she will leap about grabbing at the lead. I walk her on a harness, that she cannot slip out of. 

My main worry is what if she has one of these mad moments in the ring, she would absolutely be able to get out of a show collar/lead. Even just going to ringcraft classes, I dread the idea of it as even if I find one where the handler won't hit my puppy mad: ), I would feel so nervous about not walking her on her harness (I do also take her out for walks just on her collar, but only places I know well, where I know she will have a run first, then by the time we get to any places where she may need to be on lead, she's calm and won't leap about - as she can escape her collar if she really has a mad moment). 

At training class (not ringcraft), while I am working with her she's very focused on me regardless of the dogs, but when we sit back down between exercises, she will sometimes try and stretch out trying to lie as close to the next dog a possible, so I can only assume if she would get out of her collar/harness if she could to say hello to them. 

I never hear this being a problem when I read online stuff/showing books, but it's my number 1 fear! 

What am I doing wrong?!


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I use a slip lead on my youngsters until they have settled down that way they can not a slip them off if they have a silly fit. Poppy is a devil for spinning round and backing up if she is unsure of something but in a slip lead she cannot get loose. It works with her but then again she is not a big dog although she is quite strong I even bought a whippet slip collar for her from crufts yesterday as she sometimes does it when we are out walking and thats when I worry most about her getting loose.

I shouldn't worry about her being silly at ringcraft my italians usually act like loonies not everyones dog can be perfect no matter how hard we try they wouldn't be dogs if they never did anything wrong and if the people at ringcraft don't like that then I'm afraid I would find a different club to go to.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I use a slip show lead at ringcraft and shows. The lead goes on just before we go in the ring. At that point Bess knows what she's supposed to be doing. 

Ok, she can still act the loon, but when she's standing (or just waiting in the ring) I can loosen the lead right off and she doesn't try to run. I've even dropped the lead so it's come off her head (actually in front of the judge! ), but she's not moved and I was able to put it on her again. 

It's practicing with the show lead so they get to know that when that's put on, it's time to 'work'. 

Ok, Bess can still be a loon in the ring, loves to play tug of war with the lead, but being a slip lead she can't wriggle out of it. Once she's calmed down again I just let it hang loosely again. 

I think you ought to try another ringcraft class. They are certainly not all like the one you went to!


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## Dober (Jan 2, 2012)

What kind of show leash do you have? You can get these collars called american slip collar, they are basically made out of shoelace material or leather and it sits right behind the ears, you'd easily be able to hide it under her fur and they give you a lot of control. You can get them so that they have a little clip instead of a ring, so that it doesnt have tighten like a choke chain but sits in the perfect place and she wont be able to slip her head out. 

With the leashes, some people prefer to take the snap clips off and actually attach the leash to the collar itself, so it cant actually come un-snapped. I have accidental unsnapped mine a couple of times, but luckily mine dont go anywhere so I havnt had to bother! 

Have you got any more shows booked? Are you going to any of the big champ shows?


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Dober said:


> *What kind of show leash do you have?* You can get these collars called american slip collar, they are basically made out of shoelace material or leather and it sits right behind the ears, you'd easily be able to hide it under her fur and they give you a lot of control. You can get them so that they have a little clip instead of a ring, so that it doesnt have tighten like a choke chain but sits in the perfect place and she wont be able to slip her head out.
> 
> With the leashes, some people prefer to take the snap clips off and actually attach the leash to the collar itself, so it cant actually come un-snapped. I have accidental unsnapped mine a couple of times, but luckily mine dont go anywhere so I havnt had to bother!
> 
> Have you got any more shows booked? Are you going to any of the big champ shows?


It's just a soft, practice slim rope slip lead... Maybe I'm confusing what a slip lead is though!? I can't imagine how she wouldn't be able to get out of that, as although it does tighten, it also goes loose, so if she just moved in the right way, she'd get out of it as there's nothing to keep it tight, if that makes sense??

Ohh thank you for the tip about the american slip collar, I shall go and research that.

I haven't yet booked any shows (as the last two I booked and paid for I then chickened out of, so wanted to get some confidence back before trying again). I was _thinking about_ the Winsor champ show though, as that would give us a few months to get back into ringcraft and see how it goes.



BessieDog said:


> Ok, Bess can still be a loon in the ring, loves to play tug of war with the lead, but being a slip lead she can't wriggle out of it. Once she's calmed down again I just let it hang loosely again.
> 
> I think you ought to try another ringcraft class. They are certainly not all like the one you went to!


That's good to know that it's not just me and Maggie! I see dogs walking about on show slip leads at shows, in the ring, and I just think "god Maggie would be able to run a-muck if she wanted to in one of those!".

That's the problem, re the ringcraft. I attended a second one which seemed nicer, but it's a two hour round trip, so a bit of a pain. I've heard of some others closer by but have no idea if they would be any good...

The other problem with the first one is that it was SO busy, and in a really hot, quite small hall, so there was no space to just calmly sit back, and Maggie just got more and more wound up/excited.


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## Barefootgirl (Sep 6, 2013)

With the very greatest respect, if you are a bit worried about controlling your dog on a slip lead at shows, why not enter a couple of small opens (or even companion/fun shows)first? If everything goes pear-shaped in the ring at a champ show, lots of people will see and you'll feel rotten, whereas as at less stressful event, you can relax and work out how to control her with much less pressure. 

Frankly, your Ringcraft club sounds horrible. There is no way I would go back to a club where someone else hit my dog! I would rather drive several hours to a decent club once a month, than go regularly to somewhere crap like that. My Ringcraft trainer is amazing, she would never ever hit a dog (& trust me, our show dog is REALLY naughty) and she has loads of people going off to Crufts, LKA, etc. 

Practice at home with the slip lead. Don't do anything else except show training while she is wearing it, so that she comes to associate it with working and getting yummy treats. My daughter shows an Irish Setter who can be ghastly on the lead at home, but is usually as good as gold for my DD as soon as the show lead goes on. She knows when she can play up and when she has to work. She also knows that when the show slip lead goes on, that she gets the most delicious and stinky treats if she is good!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Alice Childress said:


> ...Maggie's breeder at Crufts... mentioned again about me showing.
> ...when Maggie was a pup, _ took her to ringcraft classes. However, after a horrendous class one week,
> where Maggie slipped her collar & charged around the room, followed by the next week, one of the handlers
> hit Maggie  I am somewhat traumatised.
> ...


_

#1:
her buckle / tag collar is too loose.

If she's the Berner in Ur avatar, her head is bigger than her neck; there's no reason for her to slip a fitted
collar, by dropping her head, backing-out, or rearing like Fury of Broken-Wheel Ranch. She's no sighthound,
with minimal backskull & narrow jaws. Tighten her buckle-collar so it STAYS up on her neck, not down near
her shoulders - or just get a limited-slip W-I-D-E martingale, on a Berner or similar i'd use a 2-inch or more,
& adjust it to stay /\ --- /\ up near her ears - with NO fingers slipping under it, & the collar-loop Flat.

#2:
a martingale-style show lead is collar & leash in one, with a small slide that adjusts the slip-collar.
She CAN'T slip it off - as when she pulls, it tightens. Just don't walk her without the wrist-loop
over Ur wrist, so that U can't drop it, & she can't yank it from Ur hand & bolt.
It's also meant to sit high, up near the jawline / back of the ears.

My Akita was a powerful dog, over 80#, & with chest-muscle that touched the exam table in Sphinx-pose.
She was fine on a show martingale - we did spend time in 4 weekly ringcraft classes, but that was so
she'd get accustomed to strangers going over her - not as petting or greeting, but as an exam.
.
._


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Barefootgirl said:


> With the very greatest respect, if you are a bit worried about controlling your dog on a slip lead at shows, why not enter a couple of small opens (or even companion/fun shows)first? If everything goes pear-shaped in the ring at a champ show, lots of people will see and you'll feel rotten, whereas as at less stressful event, you can relax and work out how to control her with much less pressure.
> 
> Frankly, your Ringcraft club sounds horrible. There is no way I would go back to a club where someone else hit my dog! I would rather drive several hours to a decent club once a month, than go regularly to somewhere crap like that. My Ringcraft trainer is amazing, she would never ever hit a dog (& trust me, our show dog is REALLY naughty) and she has loads of people going off to Crufts, LKA, etc.
> 
> Practice at home with the slip lead. Don't do anything else except show training while she is wearing it, so that she comes to associate it with working and getting yummy treats. My daughter shows an Irish Setter who can be ghastly on the lead at home, but is usually as good as gold for my DD as soon as the show lead goes on. She knows when she can play up and when she has to work. She also knows that when the show slip lead goes on, that she gets the most delicious and stinky treats if she is good!


No, I certainly will not be going back to my old class. I hated it. I would drive a 2 hour round trip for something me and Maggie enjoyed, but as I find it all so stressful at the moment, the idea fills me with dread! If I can get the Maggie slipping out of her collar thing sorted, I think that would reduce the stress a lot. Part of the problem is that I really don't like people to think badly of Maggie  it's ridiculous, but I feel so defensive of her - hence you are right re the champ show! It's just that is the nearest and next one I am available to go to.



leashedForLife said:


> #1:
> *her buckle / tag collar is too loose.*
> 
> If she's the Berner in Ur avatar, her head is bigger than her neck; there's no reason for her to slip a fitted
> ...


Ultimately, I think this is it  She's got so much fur, I don't think I ever put her collar on tight enough. It also comes down to confidence in myself. She rarely has mad leaping moments on her harness as a 1 year old, in fact she only does when outside out home, but never out in public - but the fact that I know even if she does, she can't get out, means I feel far more confident in general. I think I need to just stop being a wuss, and put a much tighter collar on her.

I'm not sure what size though. Online I have found a show collar I think I like (it's a check, but has a thick padded bit around the front of the throat for comfort), but it's in either size 20inchs or 21inchs, Maggie's neck is 20.5inchs. Should I get one made to measure?


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I think clicker training is a good idea in training ringcraft. I taught Bonnie to stand still using a clicker in a show pose and she did very well. I used a rope lead so I could loosen it around her shoulders when standing. We did a couple of companion shows and although I wasn't 100% at showing her, the judge placed us first in a couple of classes and in the RSPCA one she got BIS! So we decided to get a little more serious and did some ringcraft classes, our local golden retriever club was very good. Our best was one first in an open show and a VHC in a champ show, I was crap at running in a straight line if we didn't have a rubber track lol


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Alice Childress said:


> Ultimately, I think [her buckle-collar is too loose.]
> She's got so much fur, I don't think I ever put her collar on tight enough. ...
> 
> I'm not sure what size... Should I get one made to measure?


I'd just order a W-I-D-E martingale collar -
she's a big girl, 2-inches wide is fine, 2.5 might be even better.

The reason for the width is safety: no matter how hard she lunges, she can't injure her spine or the
spinal cord inside it, if the collar is -wider- than the cervical vertebrae that protect it.

To order the accurate length, U need to measure not her NECK, but her Skull at the widest point:
all the way 'round, just in front of the front-edge of her ears, with either a flexible seamstress' tape,
used for home-sewing & tailoring, or with a string - KNOT the free end of the string so U've got a knot
to hang onto, run it smoothly & snugly over her skull & under her jaw, use Ur thumb-nail to PIN the string
just where the knot meets it, drop the knot while continuing to pin the exact spot with that thumb-nail,
& then measure the length from knot to thumb-nail on a straight edge.

I have one custom-made 3-inch wide Mrs Bones sighthound martingale-collar that's 26-inches long - 
it goes over the heads of most male dogs of 150# or so. If i ever need a martingale for a 200# male
Mastiff or a 150# Neo, i'll need a bigger collar; sighthound-style is a closed adjustable loop for the collar,
plus a SECOND smaller set-size loop that tightens when the dog or handler pulls on the collar or leash.

They can't be "unbuckled", they are opened to max size by reducing the amount of doubled collar,
using the slider. U open & slip it over the dog's head, then SLIDE to increase the doubled collar length,
until the collar sits high & SNUG on the dog's neck - think of it as a watchband, U want it to
stay put, not slither up & down. The smaller loop where the leash will clip onto the D-ring should be
=flat= with no loose or saggy or upstanding loop; totally flat & smooth, with no slack.

To remove a properly-fitted sighthound martingale, it has to be OPENED again using the slider,
& slipped off over the head. A well-fitted martingale is no more dangerous than any buckle-collar;
one that's LOOSE, either the leash-loop or the larger neck-loop, can snag & hang or strangle or simply
trap a dog. If they are hung-up in brush, they can be thirsty or dehydrated when found; if they strangle,
they can die. So a snug, smooth-lying, HIGH martingale is safe; a loose saggy one is dangerous.

Personally, i like *Mrs Bones *-
her collars are gorgeous, but there are lots of sighthound-style gorgeous martingales.
I love them because they come with a *lifetime warranty:* if the stitching fails, anything
breaks, the dog chews it into pieces... send back the pieces, get a replacement.

Mrs Bones uses *solid brass or chrome-plated brass hardware,
including the sliders that adjust for size, & the D-ring for the leash.
The hardware is solid SAND-CAST metal, with no welds, bends, etc - all one piece, made by the same
company that supplies 'Coach' handbags & luggage.* That's why it's guaranteed, there's nothing
that can part, bend, break, straighten,... no welds to pop, no bends to give under torque.

Last time i bought one, her least-expensive line was $33-USA; however, every collar no matter
what the size, is the same price --- they only vary by style [buckle vs sighthound one-piece]
& "decor", the value or rarity of the ribbons that cover the underlying color-co-ordinated nylon webbing.

Her collars are also LINED with color-co-ordinated or contrasting fabric.
They're handsome & very durable; i wash them in lingerie bags with my laundry, in warm water,
then hang them to dry. I have TEN-YEAR OLD collars that still look gorgeous, that have been worn
by a dozen or more dogs - i lend them to clients. 

One tip:
DON'T choose collars whose ribbons have long "satin-stitches" of metallic embroidery.
The first dog who casually scratches an itch around their ear or neck or shoulder, will snag & break
the gold or silver or colored metallic thread, & make it into metallic frizz. The more snags, the more frizz.

Short stitches, printed patterns, & tapestry-style embroidery are much-more durable. :thumbup1:
.
.


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