# Overdue kittens...



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

When do you *really* start to get edgy? The longer I breed cats, the worse I seem to become and feel as though I cannot trust my judgment.. it's probably an age thing :/

One of my girls was 65 days on Tuesday. She's perfectly well in herself, still eating like a horse, occasionally scratching up in the prepared box and there was a very small amount of mucus/plug two days ago. Kittens can still be seen bouncing around. This is her second litter and last year's were born uneventfully on day 65.

Usually, 70 days would be my cut off point which falls on Sunday.. not a great day to be running off to the vet just for a check over if nothing changes between now and then and I know damn well that if I pop her along to my vet on Saturday, assuming nothing changes by then, he'll say take her home and don't worry.

Urg


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Like you 70 days would be my cut off ... 

Did she lose her plug over a few days last time... If she did I wouldn't worry , ha this is coming from a worry wart... Lol

You know your girl and she will tell ya ....Mummy get ready


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Last year was textbook... plug lost, straight into labour, four kittens born within around 1.5 hours... which is why I think the situation is getting to me this year 

My slight concern, as far as telling my vet how far along she is is this - this is my young stud's first litter. I saw one successful mating on a Sunday. He had been pretty useless in hitting the spot up to that point and, following the one successful mating, reverted to being hopeless  No more matings witnessed. Whilst I must admit they obviously weren't supervised 24/7 I am *almost* certain there were no more matings. I took her away after about a week as I wanted to ensure she didn't come back into call at a later date and be mated without me knowing. But of course it's just possible that he managed to mate her several days after the first mating on the Sunday.. though I would still usually count gestation days from the first mating witnessed she may not be quite so far along as I think she is.

I think I need to find something else to do and stop watching her constantly :/


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Agree D,i took a girl to vets once on day 70 and was sent home told she was fine happy and content.

If my memory is serving me right this girl finally went in labour at about 73/75 day.

with a singleton so looking back that's the reason she went well over as singletons iv found seem to cook for longer.

What colours are you expecting?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Agree D,i took a girl to vets once on day 70 and was sent home told she was fine happy and content.
> 
> If my memory is serving me right this girl finally went in labour at about 73/75 day.
> 
> ...


Wow, 73/75 days.. I'd have been having kittens myself by that stage! My girl is a fair size; a little hard to judge as she's a big cat and slightly on the porky side but I'd guess 4/5 kittens - all blues.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

They say singletons/twins will bake in the oven a little longer... 


If my memory serves me right, my girl was 70 days but I had taken her to the stud on her very first day (few hours even) of calling as I had some teambuilding thing with work the following days. I assume she gave birth on Day 66 of gestation and encouraged this (as it was a Sunday and had to work the next day. I had already taken a whole week off but there was no action!) by making her a bit active (with Da Bird). No idea if she went into labour because of it but I was a little bit desperate.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Since the kittens trigger labour when they get too cramped and/or the nutrient supply via their placentas drops too much it makes sense that singletons and pairs may well carry for longer.

If she is well and the kittens are moving on Saturday I think I'd be inclined to not worry about Sunday (!!!!) and ring the vets on Monday if there are still no kittens.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I've no idea why my anxiety levels seem to be through the roof with this litter but they are.

It goes without saying that if anything looks the slightest untoward on Sunday then vets it will be - I just seem to have this 70 day cut off point fixed in my mind as "okay, you need do something.. NOW".


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I have exactly the same situation so we can worry together. One of my girls slipped past OH into stud run and he DIDN'T NOTICE! In case they had mated already I decided to leave her in there and let nature take it's course. Matings weren't actually witnessed then until 4 days later which means my earliest possible day 65 (the day she got in) could in fact be day 61 and I'm going to have to hold my nerve. She isn't a maiden and she normally has big litters and no problems but...................  Oh for the good old days when I could be disgusted as such carelessness.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> Wow, 73/75 days.. I'd have been having kittens myself by that stage! My girl is a fair size; a little hard to judge as she's a big cat and slightly on the porky side but I'd guess 4/5 kittens - all blues.


Yes was a super tense time especially as I was my second litter but vet had told me that maybe she had held the sperm for a few days,im not sure of the truth in that so don't quote that.

But she was well im herself I could see kitten movement and temp was normal.So I just waited ad luckily all was fine.Was a very long hard birth as the kitten was 127g and it was her 1st litter.A special boy was born a lilac cp who I gave to my mum.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> I have exactly the same situation so we can worry together. One of my girls slipped past OH into stud run and he DIDN'T NOTICE! In case they had mated already I decided to leave her in there and let nature take it's course. Matings weren't actually witnessed then until 4 days later which means my earliest possible day 65 (the day she got in) could in fact be day 61 and I'm going to have to hold my nerve. She isn't a maiden and she normally has big litters and no problems but...................  Oh for the good old days when I could be disgusted as such carelessness.


It really is so easily done isn't it,a cat in call will be one determined cat,iv had girls waiting for me to do the feeding round and as soon as I open pen door they make a dash for it they are not stupid that is for sure.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

havoc said:


> I have exactly the same situation so we can worry together. One of my girls slipped past OH into stud run and he DIDN'T NOTICE! In case they had mated already I decided to leave her in there and let nature take it's course. Matings weren't actually witnessed then until 4 days later which means my earliest possible day 65 (the day she got in) could in fact be day 61 and I'm going to have to hold my nerve. She isn't a maiden and she normally has big litters and no problems but...................  Oh for the good old days when I could be disgusted as such carelessness.


'Holding your nerve'. Always seems to be the advisable thing to do.. for other people 

Did you have words over the fact that he 'didn't notice' .. or did he just get the long, hard look?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Yes was a super tense time especially as I was my second litter but vet had told me that maybe she had held the sperm for a few days,im not sure of the truth in that so don't quote that.
> 
> But she was well im herself I could see kitten movement and temp was normal.So I just waited ad luckily all was fine.Was a very long hard birth as the kitten was 127g and it was her 1st litter.A special boy was born a lilac cp who I gave to my mum.


I think it's this, above anything else, with cat breeding that frustrates me so much. There's so much you can learn from experience to put into practice for future pregnancies/births but that doesn't seem to hold true with knowing when (if at all) to intervene. I've done it both ways - waited (and waited) with all appearing perfectly okay... sometimes the girl has finally gone into labour... but other times a c-section was needed (or was it?) and a not good outcome... or conversely a good outcome. Other times I've not been able to hold my nerve past 'x' number of days, again with mixed outcomes and I'm either left feeling 'if only I'd waited' or 'if only I'd opted for a section sooner'.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I think it's this, above anything else, with cat breeding that frustrates me so much. There's so much you can learn from experience to put into practice for future pregnancies/births but that doesn't seem to hold true with knowing when (if at all) to intervene. I've done it both ways - waited (and waited) with all appearing perfectly okay... sometimes the girl has finally gone into labour... but other times a c-section was needed (or was it?) and a not good outcome... or conversely a good outcome. Other times I've not been able to hold my nerve past 'x' number of days, again with mixed outcomes and I'm either left feeling 'if only I'd waited' or 'if only I'd opted for a section sooner'.


Agree such a horrible feeling not knowing what to do for the best.

I remember peaches section,that time she had got one kitten out sadly dead,we went over time that is expected for next kitten to be out,i rang vets to go in but then noticed a sac so rang vets back to say I think she may be ok now.A little more time passed still no kitten out and I didn't know if me being around her was putting her off didn't know what to do for the best anyway I got to point where I took her in for oxytocin,went back home,waited how long the vet told me to still nothing,felt so sorry for the cat we all know how horrible contractions are and she was having intense ones,anyway all ended in a section 2 live born and 1 week who died shortly after getting him home from vets.

Turned out her uterus was ruptured probably due to the oxytocin.

Sorry iv gone on a bit there havnt I,but my point being it is very hard to know when to act or wait it out.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> If she is well and the kittens are moving on Saturday I think I'd be inclined to not worry about Sunday (!!!!) and ring the vets on Monday if there are still no kittens.


This is what I would do also, I've had singletons closer to and on day 70, my vets don't want them going over day 70. So I would have been there the next day for my day 70 girl.

With normal sized litters they all go day 64-65 from the second day of mating.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

spotty cats said:


> This is what I would do also, I've had singletons closer to and on day 70, my vets don't want them going over day 70. So I would have been there the next day for my day 70 girl.
> 
> With normal sized litters they all go day 64-65 from the second day of mating.


Wouldn't feel quite so edgy if it was fairly clear just a singleton... I'm estimating 4/5 and that's a conservative estimate, taking into account she's a big cat and, tummy aside, has become just a little too portly with this pregnancy. She's spent most of the morning sitting in a cupboard so perhaps that's a good sign


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Can you feel 4/5 or just going on her size? My fattest, roundest girls are the ones who've had singles


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Did you have words over the fact that he 'didn't notice' .. or did he just get the long, hard look?


He knows. He informed me he knew I wasn't angry, just very disappointed in him and that's worse.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> my vets don't want them going over day 70


We all work to this but how far over do you think all those 'accidentally' pregnant moggies might go without problems? Ignorance really must be bliss sometimes.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

havoc said:


> Ignorance really must be bliss sometimes.


Oh most definitely!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> We all work to this but how far over do you think all those 'accidentally' pregnant moggies might go without problems? Ignorance really must be bliss sometimes.


It certainly was when I let Sparky get pregnant all those years ago. I got her in 1992 and she had three kittens in 1993. Everything went swimmingly and I never worried as i had no idea how many things there were to worry about! She carried on feeding the kittens after I got her neutered, and the confidence I got from that encouraged me to foster a number of cats with kittens for a local rescue.

It's a different story with Lola partly because I know so much more and partly because if anything had gone wrong it would be because I deliberatetly choose for her to get pregnant - took her to stud and so on. However she is proving to be a great mother and she delivered all her kittens without any help from me.

Breeding feels like a whole series of hurdles - choose a breed, show a neuter, do some stewarding, move to a suitable house, get a suitable kitten, wait for her to start calling while looking for a suitable stud, get her to stud, hope she doesn't stop calling with a long journey, wait for her to pink up, wait for the rest of the pregnancy, worry about her delivering safely and naturally, worry that the kittens are healthy, worry about kitten weight gains... Done all those (still doing the last one) and the next ones on the horizon are working out what sexes the kittens are, deciding if one of the girls is a keeper and finding food homes for the rest of them. Feel exhausted after writing it all down!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Got a bit distracted but very pleased to say she had four kittens following a very long, drawn out first stage with hours of panting and absolutely nothing else happening. I don't blame her for the delay; the first kitten weighed 152g which, even for a British, is a fair old size but she managed well in the end.

Thanks for all your support yesterday


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> It certainly was when I let Sparky get pregnant all those years ago. I got her in 1992 and she had three kittens in 1993. Everything went swimmingly and I never worried as i had no idea how many things there were to worry about! She carried on feeding the kittens after I got her neutered, and the confidence I got from that encouraged me to foster a number of cats with kittens for a local rescue.
> 
> It's a different story with Lola partly because I know so much more and partly because if anything had gone wrong it would be because I deliberatetly choose for her to get pregnant - took her to stud and so on. However she is proving to be a great mother and she delivered all her kittens without any help from me.
> 
> Breeding feels like a whole series of hurdles - choose a breed, show a neuter, do some stewarding, move to a suitable house, get a suitable kitten, wait for her to start calling while looking for a suitable stud, get her to stud, hope she doesn't stop calling with a long journey, wait for her to pink up, wait for the rest of the pregnancy, worry about her delivering safely and naturally, worry that the kittens are healthy, worry about kitten weight gains... Done all those (still doing the last one) and the next ones on the horizon are working out what sexes the kittens are, deciding if one of the girls is a keeper and finding food homes for the rest of them. Feel exhausted after writing it all down!


You have that spot on OS ... Worry all the time ... Last night was my first night in my own bed away from Rosie ... Amazingly I slept really well.. Until I woke and the panic set in... I rush upstairs to Rosie and kits... Still alive and mum nursing phew ... Am worrying , are they warm enuff when Rosie is not with them , is she still bothered about them ... Has she eaten , well the list goes on

At the min I have great and average weights .... So all getting fed ,

Then you think what's average 8 to 10g per day and if its below that do you step in ??? At wot point do you step in ??


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Got a bit distracted but very pleased to say she had four kittens following a very long, drawn out first stage with hours of panting and absolutely nothing else happening. I don't blame her for the delay; the first kitten weighed 152g which, even for a British, is a fair old size but she managed well in the end.
> 
> Thanks for all your support yesterday


Congratulation .... So pleased all is well .... 152g that one chunky baba ... X


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> <snip>
> Then you think what's average 8 to 10g per day and if its below that do you step in ??? At wot point do you step in ??


Mostly over 10g / day. The odd day with not much gain for the odd kitten isn't a worry.

If none of them are gaining it suggests to me a problem with the queen - possibly unwell, possibly something else.

Not quite sure at what point I'd take a single kitten that wasn't gaining to the vets as it's never happened to me with my various foster litters except with one of the early ones where they were probably premature and they all faded and died in the first few days. 

I'm very reluctant to start supplementing unless absolutely necessary as the queen's milk is far better for them than formula.

I'm sure other people will have better answers though.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Got a bit distracted but very pleased to say she had four kittens following a very long, drawn out first stage with hours of panting and absolutely nothing else happening. I don't blame her for the delay; the first kitten weighed 152g which, even for a British, is a fair old size but she managed well in the end.
> 
> Thanks for all your support yesterday


Congratulations, glad all went well.

15-20g is average here, but if I had someone below 10g for several days I'd pop the kitten on ab's, give it nutridrops and supp feed.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> 15-20g is average here, but if I had someone below 10g for several days I'd pop the kitten on ab's, give it nutridrops and supp feed.


I have to say I intervene sooner rather than later these days. I do tend to see if nutridrops and a top up feed are enough to make the difference first.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I'm very reluctant to start supplementing unless absolutely necessary as the queen's milk is far better for them than formula


I do offer a top up once or twice a day to large litters. It doesn't stop them having mum's milk and can just fill up the bullies enough to give any that are being pushed out a chance to suckle on mum in peace.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

congrats D on the new additions..wow what a weight your girl did very well there.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> congrats D on the new additions..wow what a weight your girl did very well there.


Thank you 

She wasn't very happy about it at the time, I can tell you!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> She wasn't very happy about it at the time, I can tell you!


I can imagine


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Wow - many congrats - just need the photos now (she hints).


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Congratulations gskinner!

152g is HUMUNGOUS. This is the heaviest I've heard ever! She did amazingly


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> Thank you
> 
> She wasn't very happy about it at the time, I can tell you!


Bless her,what number kitten was it? Its her 2nd litter isn't it? 

What colours did you get?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I think it was the first kitten... Poor girl!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Minnii's very first kitten was huge - 158g I believe - but still born, a lot of his weight was due to hydrocephalous. So a live 152g is rather eye wateringly amazing.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

He was the second kitten born and I felt very sorry for her. She spent a good hour or so pacing, panting and really quite agitated - all before the kitten even presented at the vulva. The strange thing is, once it did present, it was out with one almighty push.

But over 150g I'm sure is the heaviest birth weight we've ever had; doesn't necessarily mean a lot of course when it comes to eventual size and I don't think I'd like to see any of my other girls with kittens that sort of size.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> He was the second kitten born and I felt very sorry for her. She spent a good hour or so pacing, panting and really quite agitated - all before the kitten even presented at the vulva. The strange thing is, once it did present, it was out with one almighty push.
> 
> But over 150g I'm sure is the heaviest birth weight we've ever had; doesn't necessarily mean a lot of course when it comes to eventual size and I don't think I'd like to see any of my other girls with kittens that sort of size.


really is an amazing weight I thought 127g was bad for my 1st timer and 1st kitten.


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