# clicks from lab pups back legs/paws



## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

My girlfriend pointed out some "click" noises our pup's back paws make when she walks (lab pup) ...she said she noticed it a few days ago, i (obviously) never did until now..it seems to happen mostly when she's turning whilst walking, I thought it was her claws on the carpet as they are due a cut and quite long but I took her out in garden in grass and decking and you could hear it there too... its not every step just the odd one

what is this?
is it anything to be concerned about?

she doesnt appear to be in any pain and runs about just fine quite happily.


thanks


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## EllesBelles (May 14, 2010)

I'd get it checked out by a vet.

It might be something that will pass on its own, but it could also be something which needs care. I don't want to guess at diagnoses because I can't see your dog!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I'd certainly take her down to the vets - just to be on the safe side. It isn't normal for dogs joints to be clicking - especially youngsters, and when the clicking is audible and frequent. Were her parents hip scored?


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

SixStar said:


> I'd certainly take her down to the vets - just to be on the safe side. It isn't normal for dogs joints to be clicking - especially youngsters, and when the clicking is audible and frequent. Were her parents hip scored?


No... all we know that the Grandparents were tested and were clear

the clicking is not every step she takes just the odd ones... we'll have to get her to the vets

thanks


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Kilo had something similar (I was very worried as you can see!!): http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/157731-clicking-stifle.html

It had resolved by the time I went back for a check a month later; I switched to adult food the day after the initial vet visit, then raw after the vet persuaded me that it was best and his growth rate really steadied. I also took Kilo to hydro for some impact - free exercise for a month or two.

The vet's notes said "grew very big, very fast" as the probable cause!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

snadge said:


> No... all we know that the Grandparents were tested and were clear
> 
> the clicking is not every step she takes just the odd ones... we'll have to get her to the vets
> 
> thanks


Oh dear, I think you've been misled, there's no such thing as *clear* for hip scores, they are expressed as numbers for each hip, the lower the better, but never expressed as *clear* in the way some genetic tests are.

I would get her checked out by the vets, clicking really isn't normal, hopefully it's nothing but better safe than sorry.


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Oh dear, I think you've been misled, there's no such thing as *clear* for hip scores, they are expressed as numbers for each hip, the lower the better, but never expressed as *clear* in the way some genetic tests are.
> 
> I would get her checked out by the vets, clicking really isn't normal, hopefully it's nothing but better safe than sorry.


maybe they meant the number means they were clear?? i dunno I will have to ask my partner but she is on the phone...two ticks


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

my partner says the breeder said the grandparents were hip-scored and they were OK , she didnt mention what the numbers where

Im wondering if she getting too much excersize? she has about 1 hour in total per day (3 walks) but sometimes more and sometimes less

she is on Adult food but only for past 6 days, she is small in stature

I was thinking today of asking abuot supplements for dogs... we wanted to get that Vitalin Maintenance food as it has MSM, Glucosamine, Chondroitin in which helps joints and would be good for her as she is a Lab but can only get it online... 

can you buy supplements for dogs that can be added to food?


thanks


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## EllesBelles (May 14, 2010)

You can, but I'd take her to the vets anyway. It could just be fast growing, like Kilo had, or it could be something more serious, but catching things early always helps.

If she gets put on any medication, then you'll need to ask about giving supplements with them, as they can affect how effective a medication is.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

snadge said:


> maybe they meant the number means they were clear?? i dunno I will have to ask my partner but she is on the phone...two ticks


There's not really a nice way to put this, and I hope it doesn't come across in a nasty way, but if the grand parents were tested, it seems odd the parents weren't? The only reason would be that the breeder has, for whatever reason, decided not to pay for the minimum health tests, which are hip scores and the BVA eye cert. Now that might mean nothing, because in all honesty, someone who is willing to discard doing those tests to save a bit of cash, generally speaking, wouldn't know enough to research lines and discard the health test because they think there might be something sinister to hide, if that makes sense? However, that still leaves you with a gap in the history of your pup, on both sides from the sounds of it; that doesn't mean there will most definitely be a problem one way or the other, but it does mean the breeder didn't care enough to find out if either parent may have a problem they could potentially pass on. Apols if I've got any of that wrong, I'm just going on what you've posted above; if you've got the names of the grandparents it's easy enough to check on the KC database btw, to see if they're hip scored and what their hip scores are, you can also make a quick comparison to parents, progeny and siblings, that may help you to see what hip scores any relations have. 

But, having said all that, don't dwell on anything until you've seen the vet, it might not be her hips at all, it could be just be nothing, a niggle she'll grow through.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Louie started with this and it seems to have been the same as what Kilo had, I had a vet nurse check him out and she said 10 days rest and plenty of oily fish. 

I moved onto raw and it has seemed to have stopped, apart from when he gets up dodgy or has laid in a funny position for a while. 

Not saying raw is the way to go, but I'd get a vet check anyway.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

snadge said:


> my partner says the breeder said the grandparents were hip-scored and they were OK , she didnt mention what the numbers where
> 
> Im wondering if she getting too much excersize? she has about 1 hour in total per day (3 walks) but sometimes more and sometimes less
> 
> ...


This puppy is being WAY over-exercised 

At 4.5 months, she should be getting around 20/25 minutes MAX a day,

Only a vet can tell you for definite if there is any problem - but I would be worried about clicking in such a young pup, and she's ripe within the right age range for a severe HD diagnosis 

Didn't the breeder give you any exercise advice when you bought her?

Can I also ask why if the grand-parents were hip and elbow scored, why the pups parents weren't 

Breeders are supposed to be moving forward not backward 

Whilst her parents not being hipscored doesn't give her an automatic route to Hip dysplasia - it does increase the risks and raises suspicions for me over why the parents weren't health-tested if the grandparents were - was there a problem with their hips?

I hope everything goes smoothly with the vets, but PLEASE stop over-exercising this baby as a matter of urgency - unfortunately, it's possible the damage has already been done


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

swarthy said:


> *This puppy is being WAY over-exercised
> 
> At 4.5 months, she should be getting around 20/26 minutes MAX a day,
> *
> ...


I hadn't spotted that Swarthy, the perils of doing two or three things at once.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Is the 1 hour of exercise on or off lead? How is it given?


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> There's not really a nice way to put this, and I hope it doesn't come across in a nasty way, but if the grand parents were tested, it seems odd the parents weren't? The only reason would be that the breeder has, for whatever reason, decided not to pay for the minimum health tests, which are hip scores and the BVA eye cert. Now that might mean nothing, because in all honesty, someone who is willing to discard doing those tests to save a bit of cash, generally speaking, wouldn't know enough to research lines and discard the health test because they think there might be something sinister to hide, if that makes sense? However, that still leaves you with a gap in the history of your pup, on both sides from the sounds of it; that doesn't mean there will most definitely be a problem one way or the other, but it does mean the breeder didn't care enough to find out if either parent may have a problem they could potentially pass on. Apols if I've got any of that wrong, I'm just going on what you've posted above; if you've got the names of the grandparents it's easy enough to check on the KC database btw, to see if they're hip scored and what their hip scores are, you can also make a quick comparison to parents, progeny and siblings, that may help you to see what hip scores any relations have.
> 
> But, having said all that, don't dwell on anything until you've seen the vet, it might not be her hips at all, it could be just be nothing, a niggle she'll grow through.


totally agree with you , she is KC registered so we'll try and find out , does this cost money?

she said "the grandparents were hip-scored and they were ok" - its probably cos they didnt want to pay for it thinking if the grandparents are alright then they took a gamble on their pets being OK _(the grandparents didnt belong to same breeder , they are owned by someone else - so they didnt pay for one and not the other, that would raise suspicions obviously)
_
- i think it may be just a bit too much excersize and she a bit 'stiff' cos she has had a lot lately when i think about it..

we were told pups get 5 minutes for every month of their age two or three times per day - so at 4.5 months she should get 20-25 minutes two or three times per day which is between 40-60 minutes over the day? is this wrong? it is off-lead she gets about 20min in morning - 30 at tea time and 20 at night but some days is much less and some days is a little more


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

As long as she's not forced to follow you around the park and the majority of it is her choice, and she gets to lie down when she wants etc. then i wouldn't worry


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## EllesBelles (May 14, 2010)

It's either been explained wrong or you've understood it wrong...

your calculations are correct but it means 25 minutes over two or three times, so 2 about-15 minute walks, not 25 x 3. 

Post her grandparents up here and people can look. The fact her parents weren't tested is suspicious though. Suggests there was reason to believe one of the parents wouldn't pass, so she really needs to see a vet.

The possibility of HD and over exercise could mean her hips are in a bad way and that'll need treatment now in order to not get worse.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

It's 5 min per month but for the whole day, not 3 times that!!!! 

So, at 4 months, she should have 20 minutes on lead. If you want to, just sit with her in the park but don't force her to walk around. Just let her potter, explore etc.

I would take everybody's advice, take her to the vets and give her some rest. And keep everything crossed, it's nothing.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

snadge said:


> totally agree with you , she is KC registered so we'll try and find out , does this cost money?
> 
> she said "the grandparents were hip-scored and they were ok" - its probably cos they didnt want to pay for it thinking if the grandparents are alright then they took a gamble on their pets being OK _(the grandparents didnt belong to same breeder , they are owned by someone else - so they didnt pay for one and not the other, that would raise suspicions obviously)
> _
> ...


The five minute rule, which applies to forced lead walking, or where they have no option but to follow you, is the amount per day, not two or three times per day I'm afraid. 

I think the breeder has skimped on a lot of things from the sound of it, not just the hip scores and eye tests, but advice as well. You should have been told about exercise, and the influence it could have if your pup is prone to problems. They may be a nice person, but there's a huge difference between being nice, and doing the right thing when it comes to dog breeding I'm afraid. They may not even be aware themselves of the corners they've cut, and how that could be detrimental to the welfare of pups they're producing.

It's completely free to look at health test results on the KC database, you just need to type in the name and as long as it's spelt correctly, it will bring up the results, and you can then choose to look at siblings, parents and progeny either on the menu to the right hand side, or on the tabs at the top. It doesn't, unfortunately, bring up the names of relations, just the health test results, if any.


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

*Im absolutely devastated...*

but as explained before..the breeder does not own the grandparents.. they are someone else's pets.. so its not like they have paid for one and not the other, the person they got their dogs from must have said their scores were ok and they havent bothered testing their dogs just to save cost on the whim that they may be ok as the grandparents were...not a good thing to do I know but thats what sounds like has happened...

I think we have got our wires crossed, ive just told my partner about it and she said "I know!!" ..well why let me walk the bloody dog 3 times per day then ya silly caa!! wait until she gets off that bloody phone!!!

thanks in advance

EDIT: what signs are their for HD
EDIT2: my partner said she didnt know it was over the course of the day and thought it was times that per day


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

I had a Lab pup some years ago that had the same thing, didnt get it checked out cos it didnt bother him, it stopped eventualy and he was fine

Best get vet check to be sure tho.


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

mo results as in their not on the database or no results on HD screening? i have the KC reg thing here so they must be reg. but we already know theres no HD screening

im sick to pit of my stomach and teary eyed

all the labs around here have knacked hips... all of em (we didnt get her from round here BTW..lol)


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

snadge said:


> mo results as in their not on the database or no results on HD screening? i have the KC reg thing here so they must be reg. but we already know theres no HD screening
> 
> im sick to pit of my stomach and teary eyed


They are Kc registered but no health tests have been done. 
Please don't jump to any hasty conclusions! Your girl might be fine, but it is best to have her checked by a vet.
I am really sorry for what has happened to you.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Edited as requested


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## EllesBelles (May 14, 2010)

We aren't saying she has HD. It could be growth pains. It could be arthritis. 

It's just worth checking her out. Phone up for an appointment as soon as you can get one, and take it easy with her until then. 

Keep us informed and we will help as much as we can.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I wouldn't jump the gun and assume the very worst right now; easier said than done I know - I was in a complete panic . All the info you have been given from the very knowledgeable 'lab folk' is immensely useful and at least you know exactly what to ask now.

Wait and see what a vet says and take it from there.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

OK I always refer to horses in these scenario's But

Often not all the time horses have a clicking sound and it sounds like its coming out of the stifle.. 
I had the vet out to my horse and he said it was air pockets in between the joints.. And if these are not causing any pain then they are nothing to worry about.. 
It didn't make the sound all the time And It never worried her and she passed vettings.. 

Now I know the dog is not a horse but they are built the same..

Oh And no I am not a vet ..But was just putting my experience forward..


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

snadge said:


> my partner said she didnt know it was over the course of the day and thought it was times that per day


No - it's over the course of a day  The fact that you mention she is also stiff is worrying - I don't want to frighten you, but a Lab puppy should quite simply NOT be stiff at this age - have you got good quality insurance in place in case you need it?

At this age, exercise time should be more about socialisation and training opportunities both of which wear the dog out far more than exercise.

If she now has to be rested, with the level of exercise she has been having, you will have built up her stamina and may well have a problem keeping her quiet because she has energy to expend.

Did the breeder give any explanation why the parents weren't health-tested? did they own them both?

It's sad that they should go to the trouble of buying a bitch from health-tested parents and then not test her if they were intending to breed - health history should be building not diminishing with the generations - they've also not used a health-tested stud dog 

I really do hope it is something and nothing, but clicking and stiffness would have me worried at such a young age 

Cut back on her exercise and use the time for training opportunities and socialisation instead


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

snadge said:


> mo results as in their not on the database or no results on HD screening? i have the KC reg thing here so they must be reg. but we already know theres no HD screening
> 
> im sick to pit of my stomach and teary eyed
> 
> all the labs around here have knacked hips... all of em (we didnt get her from round here BTW..lol)


HD is worst case scenario, and we don't know that until it's been diagnosed, IF it's diagnosed; it's a concern that she's clicky, but it could be nothing, and I know from experience that our dogs like to keep us on our toes when it comes to health issues.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

IF and its a big IF its HD, DONT PANIC!

I had a dog with severe HD and he lived a long happy pain free life, running jumping swimming etc, you would never know he had HD.

He lived to the ripe age of 14

Please let us know how things go at the vets


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

@ SLEEPING LION - what is GPRA..? are the hip tests alright for the grandparents like they said? - also, could you share the names of the grandparents at all?

*thanks to everyone for help and support*, we are going to rest her and only take her round the block which is 2 minutes - i suppose its good job i found out now about the excersize... still mad though!

i wonder if this is related to her gas and occasional soft stool _(when i say occasional I mean 'rare' until this last week)_, you all will have been following my other thread about this and know the score with that.

@ SWARFY - she is not stiff... i should have worded that better (I would have been very worried if she was) I meant she is probably feeling the effects of over excersize - the breeders did not own the grandparents so it wasnt a case of testing one and not the other, they simply skimped to save cost by sound of it.. i do know it was their THIRD litter and the sire has been spade now, one pup went to a dog trainer and another went to help the heroes or something i think? - just saying like...

she is very happy and playfull when she wants to play - she does sleep a lot too, once she realises we are on computer or watching TV she will just play herself for 10 minutes then go lie in her cage... she not a boisterous hyper lab...very laid back..but when she wants too play she can get excited, not in any pain

EDIT: she only been having walks for about 5 weeks since 2 weeks after injections so at least its not as long as it could have gone on for and like i say some days its just been 30-40 minutes


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

snadge said:


> @ SWARFY - she is not stiff... i should have worded that better (I would have been very worried if she was) I meant she is probably feeling the effects of over excersize - the breeders did not own the grandparents so it wasnt a case of testing one and not the other, they simply skimped to save cost by sound of it.. i do know it was their THIRD litter and the sire has been spade now, one pup went to a dog trainer and another went to help the heroes or something i think? - just saying like...


I know the breeders didn't own the parents - my point was, they went to the trouble of buying a bitch from health-tested parents but then didn't test the bitch before breeding and didn't use a hipscored sire either - clearly if this was her third litter, it wasn't an accident 

The Labrador Health website will tell you about the recommended health-tests -

Labrador Health: What Health Tests should my pups parents have?

PRA is an eye condition which causes total blindnes - it's incidence of physically affected dogs in the breed is very low and generally the age of onset is quite old - so whilst it is better that the parents were tested, I wouldn't be overly worried about it.

ETA - I've got a girl here with 'dodgy' hips, you would never think it to look at her (nor the way she moves )


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

snadge said:


> @ SLEEPING LION - what is GPRA..? are the hip tests alright for the grandparents like they said? - also, could you share the names of the grandparents at all?
> 
> *thanks to everyone for help and support*, we are going to rest her and only take her round the block which is 2 minutes - i suppose its good job i found out now about the excersize... still mad though!
> 
> ...


gPRA is general progressive retinal atrophy, it's a genetic condition that affects eyesight, one grandam is a carrier, no other dogs on the KC database had any tests against them. It's a fairly simple condition as far as genetic conditions go, but having a carrier in there, and no other health test results does mean there could be affected pups from that side alone 

Swarthy would be able to give you names of the grandparents, the KC databse just gives you the health test results I'm afraid; the hip scores I saw looked fine, but there were only for three dogs out of her pedigree, when you consider for many pedigrees, over five generations, there are many more health test results available, it does show you just how little information you have for your girl I'm afraid.

This is the KC health test result finder where you type in the name of the dogs you want to look up health test results for:

Health Test Results Finder

To be perfectly honest, I've rarely seen so few health test results, I can only think of one member on here, who after posting about health tests, had less information on the KC database than your girl has for their dog.

As for owning dogs, I plan to breed from my bitch Tau, I don't own the sire, I'll be travelling to Scotland to use a dog that comliments her. So, in the future, if I plan to breed, I'll own Tau, and the bitch pup I keep back, and will most likely use a stud dog from elsewhere to get what I want again. It is actually common for a good breeder to own several generations, but still use a stud dog from elsewhere to bring in what they want. It's less common to own both dogs, although it does happen when the dogs compliment each other, hope that makes a bit more sense of the owning dam/sire, grandparents thing


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

my partner has just read (on here) that someone else with same prob went to vets and the vet laughed saying its nails/claws clicking together cos too long.. it could well be as hers are doing this as they are quite long as we yet to get them cut, we were waiting to see if they would shorten naturally from walks now that she was able to go outside after injections..fingers crossed

I tried to cut them myself 2 weeks back but the clippers were crap and made a mess of her front claws so i left the back ones - the clicking seems to come from the back, so could well be they are clicking together when she walking.. I hope its that!!


thanks again everyone - brill this forum, best forum ive used actually and ive used many 

@ SLEEPING LION - Thanks for all that info, really helpfull thank you...

as long as she is fit, healthy and happy then im a happy man


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

snadge said:


> my partner has just read (on here) that someone else with same prob went to vets and the vet laughed saying its nails/claws clicking together cos too long.. it could well be as hers are doing this as they are quite long as we yet to get them cut, we were waiting to see if they would shorten naturally from walks now that she was able to go outside after injections..fingers crossed
> 
> I tried to cut them myself 2 weeks back but the clippers were crap and made a mess of her front claws so i left the back ones - the clicking seems to come from the back, so could well be they are clicking together when she walking.. I hope its that!!
> 
> ...


If it's as simple as that, then it's the best outcome possible, let's hope it is just her claws clicking together 

At least you've learned a little more about the parentage, and health testing side of things, if nothing else tonight.


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

@ SLEEPING LION - ....And about the proper excersize regime ..sooner rather than later, thanks again


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Shrap said:


> As long as she's not forced to follow you around the park and the majority of it is her choice, and she gets to lie down when she wants etc. then i wouldn't worry


You are quite right Sharp, it's when on lead dogs are forced to go on forever that the hips/joints can give pain after exercise.

Professor Noel Ftzpatrick says on his website that you cannot actually cause HD and there is no evidence to suggest that environmental activities can leave a dog predisposed to it. It is in the genes of a dog and it's ancestors and if the dog has those genes it will go on to develop HD/ED etc. regardless of exercise but it will simply show sooner than in an under exercised dog.

Some people don't believe at all in the 10 min rule and some Malamutes are worked in harness as early as six months of age with no problems, so if your dog is genetically predisposed to HD it will have it, the degree however can vary but not due to level of exercise apparently.

It would be interesting to see any studies that have been done on the subject but if NF can't find substantial evidence then I doubt it exists.
Conditions | Hip Dysplasia | Veterinary Specialist's Fitzpatrick Referrals

I know some dogs when growing do click, I had a Staffie that did on the front legs but like Kilo he grew out of it, so to speak. Hopefully your pup will do the same. How does she walk after her exercise? Does she walk with sort of stiffness in her back leg or run with both back legs moving together in unison - known as a bunny hop?
If you are worried the vet can perform a physical exam and let you know if he/she is concerned enough to x ray her. It is a very light anaesthetic and they are not usually out for long but for now I personally would leave it for a while because if it is a joint problem there is nothing that can be done at the moment except management with supplements and possibly hydrotherapy to strengthen the muscles around the joints. 
The only operation that can be performed when young is Juvenille Pubic Symphysiodesis and the dog cannot be over 5 months of age but it would save total hip replacements later on which are much more invasive ops.


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

thanks for that info malmum, really helpfull

I have narrowed it down to her back paws and I THINK its just one of them but not sure, its defo not her claws clicking together cos ive watched them.

but im certain its not the hip.

I have always thought that she runs *a little bit *both legged a little bit at the back like bunny hop but not always, just sometimes, a bit like a 'lazy or half hearted attempt at running', she is quite a lazy/laid back/submissive pup at times and does sometimes lose interest in chasing her ball and thats when we see them, _(she's a fast runner...like a whippet!!)_ not both legs exactly together at same time but just dont seem to open up as far as they could...im probs worrying about nothing there and making mountain out of mole-hill..i thought it was just normal for pup as they grow, she walks perfectly fine; both legs alternate.. another thing I have noticed is her back end and front end dont line up when she walks, like she is walking at slight angle, I first noticed it on the lead and thought it may just be the pull on the lead, but ive noticed it off...I will have to keep eye on that, could be her pulling into side to "sniff".

I will take some videos tomorrow of her walking and running then put them up so you can inspect

so if the noise is the paw does this rule out HD..?
and also, is it normal for pups at 4 months old who have only been walking outside for little over a month to start getting HD/Hip problems? - what I mean is I would have thought it start a bit later in life? you dont hear of human babies needing hip replacements lol...

thanks again


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I restricted Flynns walking to ten mins for every month of his age for around 18 months and that's when I started seeing more stiffness, although I had a nagging doubt before then if I'm honest. I was told I probably would have seen it sooner had I walked him more as a pup but that I wouldn't have caused it as he was obviously genetically coded for it. Restricting exercise can mask HD and as Bella has been having more exercise than the "10 min rule" I expect she would possibly show signs earlier than Flynn - that's if she has HD at all, she may not and Noel also said even with a dodgy gait it can still be other things so only an x ray will really diagnose it. Flynns was so severe that you could tell what it was really but Noel is talking about milder cases.

Thing is if Bella isn't insured yet any trip to the vet about her back feet can be counted as a possible hip problem in the future and any HD will not be covered. Insurers have many clauses and can get out of lots of claims with small print. I personally would get Bella insured before you take her to the vet, With a bill of £14,000 for Flynns ops it isn't cheap if Bella does end up with hip probs in the future, had I not had cover who knows what kind of life he would have had and for how long?

So get insurance and wait two weeks for it to kick in, see the vet and say it's a condition you have just noticed in Bella  and take it from there. You really have no other option because for Bella's sake you may need that insurance for her future medical bills and if you don't you can down grade from Platinum which is the best cover at the mo for her.


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

thanks for the advice, we were covered for 4 weeks through KC but thats just ran out and they contacted us for renewal but my partner declined thinking we were covered with the house insurance, she was at bank yesterday and they said she wasnt covered - we have gotten qoutes of £20 month from most insurers..does this sound like a good price?

also, i dunno if you read my previous post but the sound does not come from her hip..its her paw or around that area.. most certainly isnt the hip or upper section of the back leg, i had her out this morning for 2-3 minutes off the lead (always is, never on lead) around the block then back in

I also noticed when i let her out of her cage this morning the clicking seemed to be gone..but after 5 mins of general mooch around living room & kitchen it came back, i dunno if its both paws or just one

I will up them videos later


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

You have her off lead on a road???


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

snadge said:


> thanks for the advice, we were covered for 4 weeks through KC but thats just ran out and they contacted us for renewal but my partner declined thinking we were covered with the house insurance, she was at bank yesterday and they said she wasnt covered - we have gotten qoutes of £20 month from most insurers..does this sound like a good price?
> 
> also, i dunno if you read my previous post but the sound does not come from her hip..its her paw or around that area.. most certainly isnt the hip or upper section of the back leg, i had her out this morning for 2-3 minutes off the lead (always is, never on lead) around the block then back in
> 
> ...


I would suggest you get insurance ASAP irrespective of whether there is a problem here or not.

Most insurance policies won't cover you for theft or illness happening within the first 14 days or if the condition is deemed to be 'pre-existing' - i.e. if you even mentioned this to your vet and subsequently made a claim, you wouldn't be covered.

Not sure why your g/friend thought she would be covered under the home insurance - pet insurance is a big money business and not endearing itself to all the insurance companies as there is not vast amounts of money to be made -

The majority of people are far more likely to claim on their pet insurance compared to their home or motor insurance and there has been rumbles in the market place that some providers may well pull out of the pet insurance martket altogether.


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

crossing roads is only time she goes on lead.. we dont live near busy roads...all fields & forests.. when i take her out on paths in quiet streets she is off lead


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Quiet roads are where the worst accidents happen, as they're unexpected. Please keep your dog on a lead if there's even a small chance a car could come speeding down the road.


Or if you turn a corner and there's an aggressive dog. Yours isn't on lead then it's your fault if your baby gets bitten because you didn't call her back in time. Or she didn't listen.

Please keep your puppy safe!


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## TheFredChallenge (Feb 17, 2011)

Ooh I've just tried to read all this thread....but briefly. Fred has his own pet policy and is covered on the household ins - *BUT* it's just for 3rd party liability....and nothing covering any part of his health....hence we got his own pet ins from day 1.

You have had lots of good advice that has helped you but you've recently mentioned she's bunny hopped a few times? If so that is a little worrying....keep your eye out for this and do mention it if you do see the vet anytime soon. Reason I mention that is because a trainer (who has a lab of his own) watched for Fred when he was a lot younger.....turns out he looked ok on further running inspections and appearance.. but he did have a few clicks going on in his younger days. Doesn't seem to have it now; it was at the 90% point of getting up from a lying position that you heard it...(probably the best way to explain it). 
I weighed him pretty much weekly to make sure he wasn't putting weight on too fast. He is a big boy now and pretty heavy (in a muscly strong way but very lean and at the taller end of the scale). His parents *were* tested (both ok) but I was concerned about the mysterious clicks but he definitely showed no other worrying signs or pain in any way.

A lot of his problem (presuming here) was more than likely jumping all the flippin time. Trying to stop him when he was young was really hard work but we were always conscious of it as they should definitely not do it.

With regard to foods; I've recently looked at another food (as I'd prefer a larger kibble anyway) and am thinking of the Arden Grange Adult large breed with chicken and rice. That too has glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM. Not sure if any good????? but I know the AG range is usually fairly good on reviews.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

TheFredChallenge said:


> With regard to foods; I've recently looked at another food (as I'd prefer a larger kibble anyway) and am thinking of the Arden Grange Adult large breed with chicken and rice. That too has glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM. Not sure if any good????? but I know the AG range is usually fairly good on reviews.


A lot of foods these days have added glucosamine etc in them - Arden Grange is a good food - I used to feed it - but was on the breeders scheme and started to get a few difficulties with deliveries - leaving me with a litter and no food - which didn't endear me to them 

TBH - unless the pup is diagnosed with problems at some point, I don't see the need for supplements at this age.

I have to say a surprising number of dogs will "bunny hop" when running sometimes - but I'm reliably informed it is "different" when there is a problem - a friend of mine's pup stayed with us for a fair while and it was only then I realised what people meant - he didn't have hip problems but did have OCD of the hock (his hips were fine) - a few of mine do it occasionally when running - all have hips below the breed average and no other problems - in fact, the one who doesn't is the one with bad hips 

I do think that some of the issues highlighted do point towards there being a problem - I seriously hope I am wrong - I would cut down on the exercise for a while and see how things go (and get some insurance cover ASAP) - no stairs and restricted exercise for a short period might just be enough to ward off any problems.

You could try adding salmon oil to the food, it lubricates the joints  and then add more supplements as and when you need to - having tried and tested many over the years, I now use YuMove by Lintbells

Salmon oil

Home

YuMove
Dog Joint Care with Glucosamine, Yumove - Lintbells - Lintbells


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

thanks for the advice guys, ive started a new thread specifically for the insurance (incase theres someone not watching or reading this thread but is clued up on insurance etc) sorry if I should have kept it all together.

anway, Iam happy to report she did not fart last night either... only during watching me cook & prepare food and eating it did she fart a couple of times yesterday...but all last night was second night in a row with no gas :thumbup: - will see what her poo is like later on, hopefully it will STAY solid (was this morning as usual and after lunch), im keeping her away from the field and other dogs for few days until she settles and gets used to diet and so she can rest and we can monitor the paw clicks, I think too much excitement before tea with 3-5 other dogs on the field has also been a factor in her upset stomach, this morning I gave her a 'dipped' tea spoon of Pro-Biotic Natural Yoghurt and let her lick it off the spoon and her poo was fine after lunch , small..but solid..so thats a good sign  i will chuck that one out now and buy another in few days and give her some more (dipped tea-spoon every few days).

thanks for info and links to salmon oil and supplements - and Arden Grange sounds good too - we will consider it if she doesnt settle, otherwise I would like to add the supps myself to her food if I could.

thanks again everyone


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I meant to add to my post but forgot 

Don't forget that it is an offence to have a dog off lead on a public highway 

For insurance - M&S or More Than all the way - they pay the vets / physio's directly whereas a lot of other companies you have to pay and claim it back.


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

thanks swarthy - i did not know that about the highway thing - when is a road a public highway? does this mean all roads or just busy A roads etc- does this mean like walking her to shop down the road she must on a lead? - i have passed many police with her off her lead on paths and they have never pulled me for it?


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## EllesBelles (May 14, 2010)

They don't tend too. Unless she does something wrong - like causes an accident, and then you'll be heavily fined. 

Any chance of getting a vets appointment this afternoon? or tomorrow?


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

EllesBelles said:


> They don't tend too. Unless she does something wrong - like causes an accident, and then you'll be heavily fined.
> 
> Any chance of getting a vets appointment this afternoon? or tomorrow?


===message deleted====


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

snadge said:


> thanks swarthy - i did not know that about the highway thing - when is a road a public highway? does this mean all roads or just busy A roads etc- does this mean like walking her to shop down the road she must on a lead? - i have passed many police with her off her lead on paths and they have never pulled me for it?


it's any public highway - police probably won't bother until something happens - then they will come down on you like a ton of bricks  it's really not worth the bother of risking an accident or a child getting hurt - a dog doesn't have to be large or aggressive for a child to be hurt - all they have to do is jump at them (or in some instances even approach them) for all hell to break loose - I've known of instances where there has been considerable aggression from other people when all the dog has done is approach a child who is scared of, or not familiar with dogs - as you never know - then it's always best to err on the side of caution.

The other thing to remember, is that even if your household insurance covers you for public liability - even the smallest incident is reportable and could block you getting insurance in the future 

Also, you never know what might happen - three weeks ago, my eldest boy disappeared from the back garden - somewhere he had been many many times before without incident - it took us a good few hours to find him (we informed all the local shops / vets etc)

Thankfully, the dog warden had finished for the day so the lady who found him contacted my vet who contacted me - but the outcome could have been very different - I never thought it could happen to me - but in reality, it can happen to anyone and surprisingly quickly


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

Aye I see... OK taken on board, thanks again for heeding the warning signs

I always put her on lead when we go into the village, but your right I should be more carefull even if she is well behaved on paths etc.

cheers


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## sallygunes (Aug 5, 2011)

swarthy said:


> I meant to add to my post but forgot
> 
> Don't forget that it is an offence to have a dog off lead on a public highway
> 
> For insurance - M&S or More Than all the way - they pay the vets / physio's directly whereas a lot of other companies you have to pay and claim it back.


thats good to know do all vets agree to this or is it at there discretion ?


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

sallygunes said:


> thats good to know do all vets agree to this or is it at there discretion ?


Vets vary considerably - one of mine was due to have a lump removed - and my own vets wouldn't claim direct because it was below their limit of £500 (the op would have cost about £480) - my own vet then refused to accept half the money that day and the remainder the following Wednesday 

Considering the number of dogs I have, and the fact I breed, to say I was p*$$ed off was an understatement.

Another vets I spoke to who didn't know me from Adam agreed to do a claim direct with the insurer - but as it happened, they decided to biopsy the lump first, which came back benign - total bill £90 and no insurance claim.

What I've found when my girl needed surgery is I had to sign a disclaimer that if the insurance company didn't pay up for any reason, then I would have to pay - there was no problem with the claim thank goodness which came to £2,800


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Because you are aware of the problem and posted it on an open forum for all to see and the insurance company find out you knew before taking insurance.
Would this not be fraud??


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

Hi Rona

Thanks for pointing that out, our pup was already covered by KC but the insurance ended and we did not renew because we thought she was covered with our house insurance (we knew nothing about pet insurance until now), with the recent events of her paws clicking occasionally we found out she wasnt insured so are now getting her insured properly...it should hopefully turn out too be nothing or at least nothing serious (fingers crossed)

snadge


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

rona said:


> Because you are aware of the problem and posted it on an open forum for all to see and the insurance company find out you knew before taking insurance. Would this not be fraud??


Not fraud - the OP does not *know* there is a problem.

They are simply applying common sense to the situation, their existing insurance is expiring and they are taking out cover with a new company.

There is a thread running elsewhere on this forum about LloydsTSB & Halifax breaking their pet insurance policy contracts; that is *fraud* is it not?


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

happy to report we are now covered for lifetime and upto £7,000 for every year, £65 excess 

we have also moved our phone & broadband to sky (from BT & o2) which has saved us £15 month - this has almost paid for her insurance ... so even better!! 



again this morning her clicking paw wasnt noticeable until she had a bit mooch about - as nasty as it sounds do you think I would be better keeping her in cage for as much time as possible? instead of letting her roam around the living room and jump about for few mins like she does?
- at moment she is just sleeping but gets up to mooch and attempt at play with us..has a few jumps around teasing us with her toys but i ignore her and she goes back to sleep..feel awfull.. i take her around the block for fresh air and little bit excersize...thats about 2-3 minutes


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## snadge (Nov 9, 2011)

still clicking from the one back PAW/HOCK on her right side, i may be wrong but it sounds louder to me..like i say im probs making sound louder with worry

Iam getting a bit concerned now, I dont know if I can wait 2 weeks as it could get worse - my friend said most vets do a free health check, do all vets keep an online system for pets? if i took my pup to one vet for a check up and he found something wrong would he put it into a system where our regular vet would see it (and insurance companies)..? how does it all work?

christ we only had a few days gap in insurance and during that time she gets this.. im sure im cursed with bad luck and its rubbing off on others!!


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