# Male not interested in female in heat?



## Ninz49z (Jul 30, 2012)

Hello all, and thank you in advance for any help. This is my problem, i have a total of three dogs in my house. One female chocolate lab (in heat) at roughly 3 1/2 years, one Male chocolate lab about 2 years and a male Shihtzu which is about 10 months, none of which are fixed. Obviously I want to breed the labs, my male and female have been together aprox. 6 months. She has been in the family her whole life, for the first couple months they did have the whole domince thing going on. We moved about 4 months ago and since moving it seems obvious that he has taken the role as her and the Shihtzu both "bow" to him in a sense. So since day one he has tried and depending her mood he could try, or she would growl. When she would just let him he seemed to be able to get her by one leg only. Now that she is in heat she "flirts" with him as far as even pawing him when he's laying down and putting her butt in his face. But he sniffs and ignores it. Now the Shihtzu on the other hand started trying so we keep him separate for the time being. I know my male ain't fixed but can't figure out why he don't want her when she wants it, but does when she don't?


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

Firstly have both of your labs had the relevant health tests for the breed?If not then you shouldnt breed from them
secondly,what day of her season is she on,females will usually only let a male mate her at certain times.
do you have breeding experience?


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## Ninz49z (Jul 30, 2012)

Both dogs have always had their check ups, shots, ect. At the local vet. Last visit was about three months ago, we did let him know that we were very interested in breeding them. He said health, heights, and weights were great. He did tell us breeding two virgins could be a headache and that possible neither dog might not know what to do. As the case is she very much wants it to happen but he acts as if he could care less but last month she couldn't keep him off of her. And no this is my first time breeding.


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

There is a difference between health checks and health tests. Labs need tests to see if they are carrying genetic issues, and need hip xrays to check they aren't suffering from hip displaysia (sp?)


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## Ninz49z (Jul 30, 2012)

I understand what you are saying, and have found some info on it and will look further into that and get it done ASAP. But do you have any knowledge into the problem I am actually facing? I understand the risk of the correct tests, and Will proceed with getting that done. Both dogs are AKC and come from great bloodlines fathers bloodline was highly used for duck hunting by a family who would breed and train duck dogs then sell them. I know this doesn't make it safe for either of them but will still do it to be safe. I can see that you are knowledgable on dog breeding but as into how many people do you think actually do this? I am aware of it now and appreciate it, I care for my dogs as much as my children and absolutely do not want bad results.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Ninz49z said:


> Both dogs have always had their check ups, shots, ect. At the local vet. Last visit was about three months ago, we did let him know that we were very interested in breeding them. He said health, heights, and weights were great. He did tell us breeding two virgins could be a headache and that possible neither dog might not know what to do. As the case is she very much wants it to happen but he acts as if he could care less but last month she couldn't keep him off of her. And no this is my first time breeding.


NO not check ups and shots

Both dogs should be AT LEAST Hipscored and have current clear eye certificates.

*More info on Hipscoring*
Information on Hip Scoring for Labradors from Labrador Health by John Weller

*Current Clear Eye certificate*
Information on Eye-testing certificates for Labradors

One of them really should be genetically clear for PRA, checked through blood tests
Information on Optigen testing for Labradors

These are the absolute MINIMUM that should be done before you breed.

I also elbow score mine and DNA test them for CNM - my eldest boy is also DNA tested clear for EIC.

Information on the Elbow Scoring Scheme from lab health

Please DO NOT breed these dogs without at least doing the basic health-tests and getting reasonable results on hips and clear eye certs for both dogs.

=====================

It is disappointing but not surprising that your vet isn't informed on the correct health-tests.

Also - dogs shouldn't be left to mate - they should be separated when she is in season and brought together under close supervision when she is ready (often only determined through using some form of pre-mate testing)

Dogs can and have suffered horrendous injuries (and even died) during mating both supervised and unsupervised.

You need to ensure that you have the money on hand for a c-section - which could run as high as £2K if needed out of hours.

You should be prepared to hand raise a litter if needs be in case mum dies during whelping, or rejects the pups.

======================

Invest in a copy of the Book of the Bitch

The Book of the Bitch: A Complete Guide to Understanding and Caring for Bitches [Book]

Get your dogs health-tested - THEN try mating them - find yourself an experienced mentor who can guide and support you from before the mating through to whelping, raising and homing the pups and beyond.

==============================

ETA - Although the site I have shown you is British - the principles and the tests required are the same - although US breeders generally do even more tests before breeding than other locations.

As neither dog has had any health-tests, the answer to your question should be immaterial - as you are going to have to leave them at least another season in order to give you time to get the tests done.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Sounds like your female isnt ready to be mated. My Stud wont even attempt to mate before day 10 of a season.

Your female is just flirting and being a maiden bitch doesnt have a clue of what she is up to.

You need to take Swarthys advice re testing etc. I dont believe you will get better advice so please use the info wisely for your dogs and any potential puppies health and welfare


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## gayle38 (Jul 16, 2012)

You need hip and elbow score testing, via your vet! Your vet should of told you this when you mentioned breeding. 
This is either a wind-up or you have a crap vet.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I think the OP is from the states, I've never heard anyone refer to 'duck dogs' in the UK. So the health tests will be slightly different to ours, they don't use the BVA hip scores and elbow grading.


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## gayle38 (Jul 16, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I think the OP is from the states, I've never heard anyone refer to 'duck dogs' in the UK. So the health tests will be slightly different to ours, they don't use the BVA hip scores and elbow grading.


really i never knew that.
what state are there dogs in then!!!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

gayle38 said:


> You need hip and elbow score testing, via your vet! Your vet should of told you this when you mentioned breeding.
> This is either a wind-up or you have a crap vet.


Unfortunately - there do appear to be more than a few vets out there that don't know (or maybe not promote) health-testing.

My own vets were up on hip and elbow scoring (although I don't actually use them for this) and the annual eye test, but needed guidance when it came to PRA and CNM DNA testing.

The OP is not in the UK it seems - our friends over the pond use a wider range of tests over and above hips, elbows, eyes and DNA testing.

I can respect that vets are unlikely to know the specific required and recommended tests for each breed, however, I do feel they should know the standard range of tests and be able to lay their hands on something quickly that is more breed specific.

Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me at all if this thread was genuine


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

gayle38 said:


> really i never knew that.
> what state are there dogs in then!!!


What do you mean? "what state are their dogs in then?!!!!

Every country has it's own health-testing schemes - the US uses the OFA scheme, in Canada and possibly parts of the US, they use PennHip - which is also increasingly available in the UK.

In most of Europe they use FCI - and some breeders also send the dogs plates to the BVA for scoring.

In the UK and Australia they use BVA.

Most countries test or PRA and CNM - the swabs from the UK for PRA need to go to the States for testing.

Breeders who import / export dogs will be fully aware of the overseas schemes, as will others become so if and when they need to.


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## Ninz49z (Jul 30, 2012)

I am deff. looking into other vets and the tests I need as to I also think I should have herd this from his vs. the Internet after speaking with him first. I do appreciate everyone's help and WILL get the proper testing done. Thank you all


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm in the states. The tests done vary greatly from breeder to breeder, even within a breed. Some breeders do no tests. I'm talking about fairly reputable breeders too.


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## Ninz49z (Jul 30, 2012)

DogLover1981 said:


> I'm in the states. The tests done vary greatly from breeder to breeder, even within a breed. Some breeders do no tests. I'm talking about fairly reputable breeders too.


Yea I've been noticing that myself here in the states. I know a few but not lab breeders so I thought maybe it was just by breed (some breeds have more risk than others?).


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