# Just don’t know what to do



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Another walk ends in tears. My trainer cannot do any face to face work until December I don’t know what to do in the meantime with Loki his reactivity seems worse. Today he spots black Labrador owner some way in the distance (no dog) sits refuses to move despite toys and treats. 

Of course as she walks past he reacts. I just can’t move him when I see a trigger. An incident can last so long if we spot someone in the distance. 

Should I be taking him out at all I dread walking him at the moment I’m sure he picks up on it I just don’t know what to do. I normally try and remain calm but this morning just burst into tears. 

He has never bitten another dog or person I fear a muzzle or head collar will make him feel more constrained.


----------



## Guest (Nov 11, 2020)

Oh no, I’m sorry to hear this.

As you know I’m not very experienced...
But could you try to turn around and walk in the opposite direction when that happens? Even if it’s just for a few metres to get more distance between him and the trigger until they pass or are out of sight? Nova has one dog that she just won’t walk past but because the track is quite slim, it’s bit unpractical for her to just plant her butt in the middle of it and the other dog gets quite worked up when he passes us. So we walk a few metres in the opposite direction and try to win some more space so they can pass. And it’s the same treats or distraction toys don’t work with her In that situation which tells me she’s reached her threshold.

what does he do when he reacts? Does he bark or growl or what happens?

I usually give Nova a ball to carry and she’ll hold that so she has a job to do and she will not focus on anything but carrying that toy - doesn’t matter who we pass or what we pass. She even sometimes walks past said dog above now with her favourite ball in her mouth.

sorry I hope this makes sense?!


----------



## LotsaDots (Apr 15, 2016)

Have you tried standing between him and the trigger so his view is blocked? I do this with Dottie if she's fixated on something and won't move. I'll stand right in front of her and she'll try and look round me but I just step sideways so she can't see the trigger, eventually she tends to snap out of it and will look at me which gives me that split second to turn her the other way with a 'let's go' and a treat.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

You wont remember the problems I had with Dillon when he was younger with other dogs he was a nightmare and like you went home in tears more than once. I know you don't want to use one but I find a head collar helped control him and the Dogmatic is gentle on them and doesn't move or rubber their eyes, also there is a loop under the chip which I found usedful to bring his head close to me before he started jumping around and made it easier to control him. We used one on him all his life he was happy wearing it.

https://www.dogmatic.org.uk/contents/en-uk/d4_Padded,_Cushioned_Webbing.html


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read the book "Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash Reactive Dog" by Patricia McConnell & Karen London? It's very good & offers some good advice.

What exactly happens in these scenarios? What do you want to happen? What have you been advised to do?


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

As above but also taking a week off from walking him outside is no bad thing imo.

Gives the Cortisol time to dissipate fully and you can restart on empty. That applies to both of you 

Stick to training and play in the garden to keep him occupied.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

This link might also be of use .... https://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/how-to-handle-reactive-dogs


----------



## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Big hugs for you and Loki too
Hang in there x



Lurcherlad said:


> As above but also taking a week off from walking him outside is no bad thing imo.
> 
> Gives the Cortisol time to dissipate fully and you can restart on empty. That applies to both of you
> 
> Stick to training and play in the garden to keep him occupied.


_Absolutely_ this.
There's nothing wrong with skipping a few walks, especially if you have a nervy or stressy dog. There's so many other things you can do to keep him occupied and entertained, while keeping both of you calmer. Trigger stacking is definitely a thing and time off to decompress is very important (again, for both of you!)

Enclosed fields are also incredibly useful. Space to blow off steam and work on training, focus etc, but without worry clouding your time together

Do you walk the boys together or is this when Loki is out alone?
On the muzzle side of things, as long as you take the time to introduce it correctly (that could be a fun indoor game for you while chilling out) so he's sees it as a good thing, there's no real reason he would see it as constraining or negative. Even if he doesn't bite and probably never would, eliminating the risk of it would take a huge weight off your shoulders and make walks a little less stressful, which in turn may feed down to him.
I know muzzles help _my _anxiety


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Thank you everyone.

@Cleo38 i haven't read it but will order a copy.

So far I have tried treats and distraction I always have a bag full of Loki stuff. I have been advised to keep space and use treats and toys to get his focus on me. We have worked on the touch command. Sox went through a reactive period but I could distract and change direction Loki simply won't let me.

I drive as far as I can to the fields so we don't have to walk through the village.

This morning Scenario:

Parked up and walked through an alley came out and we have to cross the lane to get to the fields. Much further up the lane was this lady. We were going in the opposite direction so didn't need to go near her.

But Loki spots her sits down refuses to move. Staring at her. I try to move him using his favourite ball and liver paste. No joy. As she walks past he starts lunging, barking and growling.

Doesn't do this with everyone certain people certain dogs. He will actively look around on walks to spot someone.

I feel like I've completely failed him. Sox was set upon a few times so became a bit reactive but we worked through it. It's not so much the reaction that upsets me but the refusal to move out of stressful situations.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

BlueJay said:


> Big hugs for you and Loki too
> Hang in there x
> 
> _Absolutely_ this.
> ...


I walk them separate Sox has arthritis so has different exercise needs but also my whole focus needs to be on loki I dropped sox lead by a main road once dealing with Loki and just can't risk it.

I know my anxiety isn't helping my whole body relaxes once I pick up Sox.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

No extra advice, just ((hugs)) .


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

What has your trainer set you up to do when in the face of a trigger?
Do you have a "Let's go" cue?
How often is Loki walked and when you say that his over reactivity has got worse do you mean the intensity of his reaction or the distance that he reacts at?
What is the cause of his over reactivity? Frustration/over excitement? Fear?
How old is he now?

Big hugs coming your way, over reactivity is horrible to deal with and can be a lonely place. Especially with lockdown hampering yo getting help...but it does get better...honest.
I echo @BlueJay with regards to the muzzle, they really do help with reducing the human anxiety.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Boxer123 said:


> Thank you everyone.
> 
> @Cleo38 i haven't read it but will order a copy.
> 
> ...


In scenarios like this I had a "Let's go" cue .... it wasn't a choice for Roxy, I moved her. She used to be on a harness & I would turn quickly then run, making it in to a game. Initially she didn't want to turn away but she didn't have a choice tbh. I practised this at home making it fun & exciting then used it when out.

She was not interested in food or toys when she was anxious so I simply removed choice for her & made her do something. IME letting her practise behaviour of lunging/barking at other dogs simply increased the frequency.

What has your dog trainer advised previously?


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

If you are feeling that stressed on walks with him, I think it's worth giving yourself permission to take a break. Keep him in the garden or rented field long enough for you to feel your stress levels lower (and that's awesome that you're self aware enough to recognize your own stress).

When Breez was about Loki's age, she went through a phase of doing an exaggerated leap in to a play bow at things - people/dogs to see if they would jump (great dane leaping at you usually does that). She did it because she found it entertaining. I think there might have been a slight element of insecurity on her part, but it was mostly just her getting a kick out of making another dog or human spook. So I totally sympathise with being on the end of a leash when a big dog is acting like a heathen. It's frustrating and embarrassing and yes, incredibly stressful.

I agree with @Cleo38 I wouldn't give him a choice about moving. He does this to you in other contexts too doesn't he? The refuse to move thing? I'm all for positive training and working with the dog, but that doesn't mean you can't be firm and when you say 'let's go' we're going. Practice lots and lots of 'let's go' by making it fun for him so that he knows 100% what it means and that it's fun, but when it comes down to it, and you mean go, he needs to go.

Don't pull him directly from the front, pull from the sid and get him to turn, or even walk in to him and get him moving, and as soon as he takes that first step, run and happy him up.

It's not unusual for a dog to get 'stuck' when they're feeling conflicted and sometimes they just need a reminder that they actually *can* move, once they're moving they're fine.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> In scenarios like this I had a "Let's go" cue .... it wasn't a choice for Roxy, I moved her. She used to be on a harness & I would turn quickly then run, making it in to a game. Initially she didn't want to turn away but she didn't have a choice tbh. I practised this at home making it fun & exciting then used it when out.
> 
> She was not interested in food or toys when she was anxious so I simply removed choice for her & made her do something. IME letting her practise behaviour of lunging/barking at other dogs simply increased the frequency.
> 
> What has your dog trainer advised previously?


Absolutely agree he should not have a choice. He goes where you want when you want not the other way round. Freezing up and refusing to move is more of a horse thing and obviously they are too heavy to force to move but still do not really get a choice with most owners. I cant imagine it with a dog because it doesnt matter how big and heavy your dog is they are controllable. Once he has unfrozen he should walk away ok. All dogs get their eye on something and dont want to move but even off lead they should not have a choice. If one of mine does it I go up to them and tap them on the bum which makes them look round and breaks the fixation then a strong command and they come with me.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply I will try to answer as detailed as possible.

@StormyThai

Over the summer we worked with the trainer 
On loose lead walking. We also had some sessions in secure field. Her daughter would bring a dog in at a distance and we worked on calling Loki away (just using his name not let's go) from a safe distance. Loki was great in these sessions I felt really positive we went on holiday and he visited lots of different busy places and was great.

She only does 1:1 not classes so we left it I was going to look for some sniffy groups or a small class to continue work.

Then Sox needed his op and I ran out of cash, Loki belly was bad so we didn't do this.

When I say worse he is reacting to more people before it was a select few he did not like now it's more and more.

I think it's a mixture of frustration and fear. He is a lot better if a dog comes towards us he can say a quick hello then move on. If a dog ignores him he will often start growling. He is scared of big black dogs or big dogs who bound over.

Loki is walked twice a day once in the morning and again around lunch. I stopped taking him out after work because most of the village are out and it's to busy. One of these walks is often secure field or woodland we rent. They go at least 4 times a week. We have a couple and they are huge it's like a proper walk. I am lucky to have a big garden. We play lots of sniffy games in the afternoon or Loki plays with his toys.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

@O2.0 @Blitz @Cleo38 with regards time not giving him a choice. I think this is why I feel so upset. It's not the reaction but refusing. We have enough space around here to avoid people and most are very respectful of space no off lead numpties. He almost forces these situations upon us. Even if no one is about he is constantly looking behind us like Freddie Kruger will jump out a bush.

I don't know why he's like this Sox had a few dogs have a pop at him when he was younger loki never has. I have only recently become so anxious so don't think I've completely caused it.

I completely agree you should be able to move him with Sox and he's bigger if he starts with nonsense I can get him going. With Loki I really feel I cannot unless I seriously man handle him which I'm afraid will destroy our relationship.

@O2.0 yes he does this in lots of circumstances. He will refuse to come in from the garden, if he wants to go one way on a walk me the other he refuses to move. Sometimes he will walk back towards the car really slow like a toddler.

The other morning we got back from a walk and he decided he wouldn't go inside I was running late so did pick him up and turf him in and felt awful. I can sometimes move him a few feet but the whole ordeal is stressful.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

O2.0 said:


> If you are feeling that stressed on walks with him, I think it's worth giving yourself permission to take a break. Keep him in the garden or rented field long enough for you to feel your stress levels lower (and that's awesome that you're self aware enough to recognize your own stress).
> 
> When Breez was about Loki's age, she went through a phase of doing an exaggerated leap in to a play bow at things - people/dogs to see if they would jump (great dane leaping at you usually does that). She did it because she found it entertaining. I think there might have been a slight element of insecurity on her part, but it was mostly just her getting a kick out of making another dog or human spook. So I totally sympathise with being on the end of a leash when a big dog is acting like a heathen. It's frustrating and embarrassing and yes, incredibly stressful.
> 
> ...


Yes, I remember hearing the phrase used by some trainers "positive doesn't mean permissive" which I think is a good one. Roxy was not able to make (what I considered) the 'right' choice so the choice was removed. It was the same with spotting wildlife. The "look at that" game didn't work as seeing the animal would just turn on her hunting instinct so she wasn't allowed to look at them, instead she would look at me then get her reward ..... again the choice was removed initially but once this became habit then it was voluntary.

@Boxer123, those of us who have had more 'challenging' dogs will completely understand. When I first got Roxy had so many days where I felt inadequate, a bad owner, days where I would be crying, I hated her then hated myself for thinking like that ..... so many emotions & so difficult to try & find a plan. But you will get there. Maybe start a training diary so you can note progress & remind yourself of the wins no matter how small they are.

I would also think about what behaviour you would find beneficial in these circumstances (a hand touch, look at your, etc) & really work on that at home initially. Set criteria low then build up to adding distractions. It's not easy but it's always best to have a plan in place for what ifs ..... the "let's go" worked so well for me & I did as @O2.0 suggested of walking in then across the dog so they had to move. Again, it's practise & practise.

It might be difficult to see now but these dog do teach so much .... Roxy was a nightmare initially but we got there & you will to


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Cleo38 said:


> Yes, I remember hearing the phrase used by some trainers "positive doesn't mean permissive" which I think is a good one. Roxy was not able to make (what I considered) the 'right' choice so the choice was removed. It was the same with spotting wildlife. The "look at that" game didn't work as seeing the animal would just turn on her hunting instinct so she wasn't allowed to look at them, instead she would look at me then get her reward ..... again the choice was removed initially but once this became habit then it was voluntary.
> 
> @Boxer123, those of us who have had more 'challenging' dogs will completely understand. When I first got Roxy had so many days where I felt inadequate, a bad owner, days where I would be crying, I hated her then hated myself for thinking like that ..... so many emotions & so difficult to try & find a plan. But you will get there. Maybe start a training diary so you can note progress & remind yourself of the wins no matter how small they are.
> 
> ...


Yes I think I need to do this reduce the walks and up the training. My only hesitation with reducing the walks is him not pooping enough and his belly getting upset.


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Boxer123 said:


> Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply I will try to answer as detailed as possible.
> 
> @StormyThai
> 
> ...


I have no advice, just sympathy, it's bad enough when your dog is 12kg and won't move. I'm watching this thread with interest as we are having similar problems and looking for solutions. Hugsx


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I should add I don’t ever feel I’m going to drop his lead he is in a harness with front clip. This is why I’m unsure about a head collar. I do have control in that he’s not going to get at anyone. I worry he will scare someone and get reported.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

DanWalkersmum said:


> I have no advice, just sympathy, it's bad enough when your dog is 12kg and won't move. I'm watching this thread with interest as we are having similar problems and looking for solutions. Hugsx


Thank you this morning wasn't great I was crying the boys were both worried.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Boxer123 said:


> Yes I think I need to do this reduce the walks and up the training. My only hesitation with reducing the walks is him not pooping enough and his belly getting upset.


Do you think that could be contributing to the issue at all? Just a thought ...

Also @O2.0 mentioned that he refuses to move in other situations as well so maybe again look at your domestics at home. Really look at them as sometimes we get so used to certain behaviours that we don't realise things have slipped. When my first dog Toby had to be PTS I let alot slip with Archer as I was devastated at losing Toby & coudn't seem to pull myself together. He is the sort of dog that you have to be so consistent with & I wasn't in the right frame of mind for a while to notice. As I started to do more formal training I noted that he broke positions more frequently, took his toy when he wanted it rather than when he could have it & had generally started to be come a demanding little sh*t!

My fault for letting things slip but once I looked at the areas I didn't like (him charging through doors knocking me & Roxy out of his way for example!) I put a plan in place. Every area was almost micro managed which sounds awful but it wasn't really it was just about getting more of a routine & getting him to look to me for certain things. It didn't crush him or change his cheekiness but it did improve his manners & made him stop to think more.

There's some great stuff by Susan Garret .... "It's Yer Choice" training videos & her book Ruff Love that might be of use


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Boxer123 said:


> I completely agree you should be able to move him with Sox and he's bigger if he starts with nonsense I can get him going. With Loki I really feel I cannot unless I seriously man handle him which I'm afraid will destroy our relationship.


Please don't take this the wrong way but he is having you on....he has sussed that you won't move him if he "sticks" so his "stick" has got better.
Thai tried this on too and being a small person I would not have been able to move him by just hauling on the leash.
I actually clip the leash to the collar in these instances and then I just walk into them and because you have the collar they can't move forward so have to turn or walk backwards...once he is moving you have physics on your side so you just keep going.


----------



## Jason25 (May 8, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> I drive as far as I can to the fields so we don't have to walk through the village.
> 
> I feel like I've completely failed him.


I can relate to this so much.

I stopped walking daisy around my area in the day time because she embarrassed me so much and I was ashamed to have a dog that reacted like that and didn't want my neighbours all knowing I had a reactive dog.

It got to the point where I was walking at 5am before work and in the middle of nowhere after work. Don't get me wrong I do enjoy them in the middle of no where walks but it's not always practical.

We walk with a muzzle now, I pop it on when we are walking in built up/busy areas and she is a lot better. I'm sure it's because I'm more confident knowing she can't hurt anyone (doubt she would but it could happen)

Her trigger is mainly people staring and talking to her. It's not so bad now but it was terrible as she was growing up.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

A headcollar would be useful when he ‘sticks’ as you have control of the head which is easier for you to turn him away then a whole body. Harnesses have their place, but you don’t really have total control over the dogs movements as you do with a collar or headcollar. I’m not a big fan of headcollars, but they may work better in his sticking situations.
It used to be said that the headcollars had a calming influence over dogs due to the strap at the back of the head. Is this still considered to be true or was it just a selling thing?


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

How would he be if, when he sits and refuses to move you stood astride him or hugged him?

I wonder if that would either soothe him and make him feel you’ve got his back and have things covered or just break his “trance”?


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

StormyThai said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way but he is having you on....he has sussed that you won't move him if he "sticks" so his "stick" has got better.
> Thai tried this on too and being a small person I would not have been able to move him by just hauling on the leash.
> I actually clip the leash to the collar in these instances and then I just walk into them and because you have the collar they can't move forward so have to turn or walk backwards...once he is moving you have physics on your side so you just keep going.


I don't take it the wrong way loki is constantly having me on. I will try and be more firm and move him on I worry I look abusive.



Cleo38 said:


> Do you think that could be contributing to the issue at all? Just a thought ...
> 
> Also @O2.0 mentioned that he refuses to move in other situations as well so maybe again look at your domestics at home. Really look at them as sometimes we get so used to certain behaviours that we don't realise things have slipped. When my first dog Toby had to be PTS I let alot slip with Archer as I was devastated at losing Toby & coudn't seem to pull myself together. He is the sort of dog that you have to be so consistent with & I wasn't in the right frame of mind for a while to notice. As I started to do more formal training I noted that he broke positions more frequently, took his toy when he wanted it rather than when he could have it & had generally started to be come a demanding little sh*t!
> 
> ...


We have let things slip. His stomach issues are settling but do get worse if he's anxious or worried. Sox was poorly work has been crazy and I haven't kept on top of him.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Jason25 said:


> I can relate to this so much.
> 
> I stopped walking daisy around my area in the day time because she embarrassed me so much and I was ashamed to have a dog that reacted like that and didn't want my neighbours all knowing I had a reactive dog.
> 
> ...


It's horribly embarrassing I just want to be able to pop home at lunch and take the dogs out without getting in the car driving to some creepy murder walk which are now busy because everyone got a dog in lockdown.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Lurcherlad said:


> How would he be if, when he sits and refuses to move you stood astride him or hugged him?
> 
> I wonder if that would either soothe him and make him feel you've got his back and have things covered or just break his "trance"?


This reminds me of David Cameron's hug a hoodie but I could certainly try it. He does like a cuddle.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

If you follow @StormyThai's suggestion, just do it in a way that is lighthearted, which will stop you and him getting angsty over it and to others won't look like you're angry so you don't feel so self conscious.


Boxer123 said:


> This reminds me of David Cameron's hug a hoodie but I could certainly try it. He does like a cuddle.


It was a technique mentioned on here before - obviously depends on the dog of course 

Jack would be fine and probably reassured.

Another dog might react differently.

I'm just thinking if it's anxiety based a big cuddle might help


----------



## ShibaPup (Mar 22, 2017)

It's ok to have bad days - tomorrow is a new day, you can give yourself both time to relax.

You'll get there and you've had some fabulous advice here, sending hugs


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Siskin said:


> A headcollar would be useful when he 'sticks' as you have control of the head which is easier for you to turn him away then a whole body. Harnesses have their place, but you don't really have total control over the dogs movements as you do with a collar or headcollar. I'm not a big fan of headcollars, but they may work better in his sticking situations.
> It used to be said that the headcollars had a calming influence over dogs due to the strap at the back of the head. Is this still considered to be true or was it just a selling thing?


I've emailed my trainer to ask their thoughts at this point I will try anything just don't want to make it worse. (If it can get any worse than being the village pariah)


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Awww bless you I can tell you are stressed and upset about this. BUT we have your back!
100% take a break from walks. You can still go to the field to let off steam but I'd avoid 'normal' walks for a week at least, maybe even longer tbh. 
I would also get a headcollar and start to condition it now. Don't just put it on him but train him to like wearing it and while you aren't walking him make it part of your daily training routine.
I would (at the same time as conditioning the head collar) start training a 'let's go' cue and an 'about turn' cue where you literally do a 180 and turn and walk in the opposite direction. Lots of this is muscle memory and training, so the more you practice it the better you and he will get at it. Practice just a couple of minutes a few times a day in the garden or at the field. Train FOR the situation not IN the situation. Once you decide to go on walks again make sure you do your 'let's go's and your 'about turns' when there are NO TRIGGERS! This is the most important bit - don't just do these when there are his triggers about, they need to be done all the time so it doesn't become part of the bigger trigger picture (well that's fun to say!) 
Take a break, drink some wine, eat some chocolate, hug your PITA boxer and breathe!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sarah H said:


> Awww bless you I can tell you are stressed and upset about this. BUT we have your back!
> 100% take a break from walks. You can still go to the field to let off steam but I'd avoid 'normal' walks for a week at least, maybe even longer tbh.
> I would also get a headcollar and start to condition it now. Don't just put it on him but train him to like wearing it and while you aren't walking him make it part of your daily training routine.
> I would (at the same time as conditioning the head collar) start training a 'let's go' cue and an 'about turn' cue where you literally do a 180 and turn and walk in the opposite direction. Lots of this is muscle memory and training, so the more you practice it the better you and he will get at it. Practice just a couple of minutes a few times a day in the garden or at the field. Train FOR the situation not IN the situation. Once you decide to go on walks again make sure you do your 'let's go's and your 'about turns' when there are NO TRIGGERS! This is the most important bit - don't just do these when there are his triggers about, they need to be done all the time so it doesn't become part of the bigger trigger picture (well that's fun to say!)
> Take a break, drink some wine, eat some chocolate, hug your PITA boxer and breathe!


Thank you this all makes sense you are a lovely bunch I will absolutely take a break. We have played in the garden. I love my little Loki so much but my god does he test me.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Happy Paws2 said:


> You wont remember the problems I had with Dillon when he was younger with other dogs he was a nightmare and like you went home in tears more than once. I know you don't want to use one but I find a head collar helped control him and the Dogmatic is gentle on them and doesn't move or rubber their eyes, also there is a loop under the chip which I found usedful to bring his head close to me before he started jumping around and made it easier to control him. We used one on him all his life he was happy wearing it.
> 
> https://www.dogmatic.org.uk/contents/en-uk/d4_Padded,_Cushioned_Webbing.html


Do you have a harness/collar on as well? Ps I can't believe Dillion was naughty boy.


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I have nothing helpful, but sending hugs. Get some chocolate.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

JoanneF said:


> I have nothing helpful, but sending hugs. Get some chocolate.


Already on that nothing a brew and chocolate can't solve.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Boxer123 said:


> Do you have a harness/collar on as well? Ps I can't believe Dillion was naughty boy.


Dillon, you'll never believe the problems we had with him. He use to walk on two legs play biting my arms that much they hurt and if he saw another dog all hell let loose. I was always hiding behind cars or in peoples garden when I saw another dog in the distance until they were out of sight or walked past us. I cried that many time walking him I nearly seat him back to his breeder. 
Then someone on here mentioned to Dogmatic life was a lot easier after that.

I had a training lead, one end clipped to his normal collar and the other to the dogmatic.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Don’t beat yourself up, please.

I think there is a time in every teendog’s life when it just has to be ‘because I said so’.
Sometimes just one demo of this, by you, is enough.

Work out how you can make him move ( lots of good advice here) and just do it. Even if it takes all your weight and both hands!


PS. He’ll get over it and be a wiser baby boxer.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Linda Weasel said:


> Don't beat yourself up, please.
> 
> I think there is a time in every teendog's life when it just has to be 'because I said so'.
> Sometimes just one demo of this, by you, is enough.
> ...


I hope your right he can be such a douche !


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Boxer123 said:


> I've emailed my trainer to ask their thoughts at this point I will try anything just don't want to make it worse. (If it can get any worse than being the village pariah)


I wouldn't look negatively on an owner who's obviously trying to work on their dog's issues


----------



## Tyton (Mar 9, 2013)

You've had some great advice already!

I'm basically weighing in on the empathy vote and to remind you that you're not alone! I've been there, the giant lunging out of control dog, the embarassment, the anxiety, the reducing you to tears. It's tough, and it's also true that it makes us (owners) more on edge and that in turn translates to a dog more on edge, more alert (Sam's 'guarding' threshold is about half a mile!) I tend to find that when he plants himself and won't move, often rubbing his chest helps. it seems to ease his anxiety, makes me happy as I have a hand in front of him to try and ward off a lunge, but he doesn't feel too restrained. Thankfully Sam also loves sitting up on something - a stump/bench etc so that's also a good way to give him confidence for other dogs to pass by. 

Definitely finding a way to 'break' the stare/trance can help, as the longer that stillness goes on, the bigger the explosion or release at the end of it. Thankfully Sam has learned he can break it himself by turning away to sniff (he now sometimes uses it until the other dog gets close, or even sometimes while the dog passes - he's busy, so can't afford the time to have any reaction to the dog; good or otherwise). My sister has taught her collies a 'curve away' command, so they know to move out into an arc and defuse the hard stare/collie crouch approach. Having a 'positive' action is good, as it breaks the tension... I haven't found food/treats/toys any use in this situation as Sam is already way over threshold to accept anything like that, but a physical action gets his brain working as well as his muscles, and, as previously said, once they are moving, momentum is your friend. 

In terms of yourself.... when I've had a stressy walk or two in a row with Sam, I often leave him behind, partly for him to destress, but more importantly so I can have a 'nice' potter with one of the Newfies to decompress myself... it has the added bonus that we sometimes meet the very same folks that have seen me with a horribly behaved monster Sam, and they can now see what my 'proper' dogs behave like. It helps me to not feel such a rubbish owner, and indeed one time when I was close to tears at Sam lunging out the blue at an unsuspecting family with a lab, an elderly couple came up with their wee dog (who ignored Sam), and started mock telling him off, saying that's not how my dogs normally behave, they know cos they've seen his brothers out walking, and what on earth did Sam think he was up to. (they weren't being nasty to Sam, just trying to make me feel better), and Sam did end up having a fuss from them, and a quick sniff with their dog, so we all walked on feeling a bit better inside. 

My main advice is to persevere, and to not feel any pressure that Loki has to have x walks a week/day, or that there is a set standard of behaviour. Do what he and you feel comfy with, and take time out whenever you need it.


----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

I'd second the dogmatic
I've found they're great for all types of mastiffs and, of course, had one for thunder, who was a boxer X
they dont close up around the mouth, like others do, which can be dangerous with brachy breeds, they have a loop underneath, which the lead clips too, said loop also makes it easier if your dog is a bit of a dancer, and you find yourself repeatedly having to reposition
If you decide to go down that route, then get a leather one, if you can afford it, mines 10 yrs old and still going strong

https://www.dogmatic.org.uk/


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Tyton said:


> You've had some great advice already!
> 
> I'm basically weighing in on the empathy vote and to remind you that you're not alone! I've been there, the giant lunging out of control dog, the embarassment, the anxiety, the reducing you to tears. It's tough, and it's also true that it makes us (owners) more on edge and that in turn translates to a dog more on edge, more alert (Sam's 'guarding' threshold is about half a mile!) I tend to find that when he plants himself and won't move, often rubbing his chest helps. it seems to ease his anxiety, makes me happy as I have a hand in front of him to try and ward off a lunge, but he doesn't feel too restrained. Thankfully Sam also loves sitting up on something - a stump/bench etc so that's also a good way to give him confidence for other dogs to pass by.
> 
> ...


Thank you this makes sense. Loki is massively over the threshold and treats do nothing I will try physical contact. I like going out with Sox because he is such a good boy and doesn't make me look quite so incompetent.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

mrs phas said:


> I'd second the dogmatic
> I've found they're great for all types of mastiffs and, of course, had one for thunder, who was a boxer X
> they dont close up around the mouth, like others do, which can be dangerous with brachy breeds, they have a loop underneath, which the lead clips too, said loop also makes it easier if your dog is a bit of a dancer, and you find yourself repeatedly having to reposition
> If you decide to go down that route, then get a leather one, if you can afford it, mines 10 yrs old and still going strong
> ...


Just need to figure out the size for him.


----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Boxer123 said:


> Just need to figure out the size for him.


Can't remember if mines a 4 or a 5, I'm out at the moment (hospital visit, before anyone shouts at me)
The other thing I should mention, and I know it's daft, but singing can alleviate your anxiety, and, by rote, the anxiety that travels down the lead
I don't mean loud Welsh choir singing, just gentle whisper type singing
Whenever I had a reactive foster, I used to quietly sing 'you are my sunshine', as we walked, in between engaging with them of course, and would also sing it indoors if giving cuddles or belly rubs
I found, and I'm not advocating it as a cure, that they came to associate the song with good feelings, so singing it as we walked, also made good feelings, and a sense of all is right with the world, mums relaxed and in charge
I'm not saying it stopped, full stop, the behaviour, but it helped to de-escalate and calm the reactivity on most of them
Lots of virtual hugs winging your way xx


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

mrs phas said:


> Can't remember if mines a 4 or a 5, I'm out at the moment (hospital visit, before anyone shouts at me)
> The other thing I should mention, and I know it's daft, but singing can alleviate your anxiety, and, by rote, the anxiety that travels down the lead
> I don't mean loud Welsh choir singing, just gentle whisper type singing
> Whenever I had a reactive foster, I used to quietly sing 'you are my sunshine', as we walked, in between engaging with them of course, and would also sing it indoors if giving cuddles or belly rubs
> ...


Thank you I do sing to loki a lot inside so could try outside. I think I need to focus more on him not the trigger.


----------



## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

I don't have any advice further to what's been given, but just here to back up that giving yourself and him a break from walks isn't giving up or anything. Pressing the reset button on stress with a break is a positive thing to do, not a failure. Completely different situation, but Cad had nearly 2 weeks without walks from just before Hallowe'en until just a few days ago. I didn't fail him by taking this break, I was supporting his overall needs rather than prioritising the external physical stuff.


----------



## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

I had a terrible time with Alfie, I absolutely hated walking him, many tears and much embarrassment. So called friends would no longer walk with me... Even dog training made us stand in the corner for others safety.

But it gets better, takes time but it truly does. They grow up.

I agree, take a break.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Siskin said:


> A headcollar would be useful when he 'sticks' as you have control of the head which is easier for you to turn him away then a whole body. Harnesses have their place, but you don't really have total control over the dogs movements as you do with a collar or headcollar. I'm not a big fan of headcollars, but they may work better in his sticking situations.
> It used to be said that the headcollars had a calming influence over dogs due to the strap at the back of the head. Is this still considered to be true or was it just a selling thing?


They really do calm a lot of dogs. Toffee was never walked on the lead and did not see other dogs for a few years so she was an absolute nightmare, no harm in her but lunging towards other dogs, crying in excitement. I put a halti on and she was a million times better. A friends dog who is pretty horrible round other dogs is much better with the halti on and another friend had a maniac springer and a halti calmed him down loads. Well worth a try.

I meant halti as a generic term, I dont use an actual halti.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Torin. said:


> I don't have any advice further to what's been given, but just here to back up that giving yourself and him a break from walks isn't giving up or anything. Pressing the reset button on stress with a break is a positive thing to do, not a failure. Completely different situation, but Cad had nearly 2 weeks without walks from just before Hallowe'en until just a few days ago. I didn't fail him by taking this break, I was supporting his overall needs rather than prioritising the external physical stuff.


Thank you we have booked the field for tomorrow and chilled in the garden today.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Kaily said:


> I had a terrible time with Alfie, I absolutely hated walking him, many tears and much embarrassment. So called friends would no longer walk with me... Even dog training made us stand in the corner for others safety.
> 
> But it gets better, takes time but it truly does. They grow up.
> 
> I agree, take a break.


Oh Alfie ! I know Sox has grown up he's the village peacock at the moment loves everyone and every dog. I just don't remember anything this bad. I could always move him out of situations.


----------



## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Oh bless you you haven’t failed him at all! 
Lots of good advice so far so I won’t repeat it all.

I can understand where you’re coming from though. This time last year I dreaded walks with Ted, from his reactive ness to his obsession with barking at squirrels, it just wasn’t nice a lot of the time. I can say, in the last year he’s come on so much (this has taken 3 years though since we got him!). He is a lot more focused now and, while he’s not perfect, he’s a lot easier to manage.

I do think that maybe having control of his head so you can move him yourself would be good and then reward him when you’re on the move again. What’s he like with you grabbing his collar? I’ve found that when Teddy locks on (he doesn’t sit so you can drag him but when he’s on a harness he can still twist his body to stare out the other dog even when being dragged the other way!), I can grab his collar and move his head away and walk in another direction. We worked on collar grabbing for agility as the trainers would need to hold his collar before a run and it helps with manoeuvring them into place! We started off just touching the collar and rewarding and then grabbing and rewarding and then putting a bit of pressure in the direction we want them to go and rewarding with giving into pressure etc etc. Which means now if I need to grab his collar and move his head has good associations with it and looks for his reward. Might not help with Loki but it’s something we do!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Teddy-dog said:


> Oh bless you you haven't failed him at all!
> Lots of good advice so far so I won't repeat it all.
> 
> I can understand where you're coming from though. This time last year I dreaded walks with Ted, from his reactive ness to his obsession with barking at squirrels, it just wasn't nice a lot of the time. I can say, in the last year he's come on so much (this has taken 3 years though since we got him!). He is a lot more focused now and, while he's not perfect, he's a lot easier to manage.
> ...


He's never worn a collar always his harness. He doesn't have an issue with me grabbing it just chooses to ignore me.


----------



## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Boxer123 said:


> He's never worn a collar always his harness. He doesn't have an issue with me grabbing it just chooses to ignore me.


ooh ok! I found if I grabbed Teddy's collar it was easier to shift him as I had more control over his head and it's harder for them to resist. But if he doesn't wear one it won't help of course!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Lurcherlad said:


> How would he be if, when he sits and refuses to move you stood astride him or hugged him?
> 
> I wonder if that would either soothe him and make him feel you've got his back and have things covered or just break his "trance"?


Given that he's doing this in so many other contexts I'd err on the side of "Yes, I know you don't want to, but tough titties, you're moving" no nonsense approach.

Knowing teenage boxers and having followed Loki's antics, I'm really leaning on the side of this being a teenage strop as much as anxiety.

@Boxer123 here is what is likely to happen. You will get tough and say enough, you have to move. He will up the ante (extinction burst). For this sort of thing, the extinction burst will likely involve him planting his butt more often in more scenarios and really testing out your new approach. It's not so much defiance but him simply testing your new behavior. What does she do if I do *this*? What about if I do *this*?

Stick to your guns. He has to move.

Try really hard not to get angry, frustrated or emotional in any way. Be very matter of fact about it. Sing a song if you need to  Seriously, I would sing Breez her own personal you're an idiot song and several horses I used to work also had their own you're an idiot songs. Keeps me from beating them  - just kidding, sort of 

But stick to your guns, if you decide he's going to move, he needs to move. Do you know how to do a leash wrap? That's a good way to help move him if you're moving in to him and just use the leash wrap to keep him moving.

Know that he will get worse with this before he gets better, but once he realizes there are non-negotiables, your life will be so much easier! It's worth the aggravation to get to that point.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Given that he's doing this in so many other contexts I'd err on the side of "Yes, I know you don't want to, but tough titties, you're moving" no nonsense approach.
> 
> Knowing teenage boxers and having followed Loki's antics, I'm really leaning on the side of this being a teenage strop as much as anxiety.
> 
> ...


No not leash wrapped before what is this ? Loki has this face if you get firm that has RSPCA all over it.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Just thought of an alternative that has worked for me in the past; just leave him.

If you can walk away but keep your retractable lead taut, ready to prevent lunges (if it doesn’t work and it all goes pear-shaped) it might be that he will leave his obsession and come closer to you, once he realised that his ‘back-up’ has gone.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Given that he's doing this in so many other contexts I'd err on the side of "Yes, I know you don't want to, but tough titties, you're moving" no nonsense approach.
> 
> Knowing teenage boxers and having followed Loki's antics, I'm really leaning on the side of this being a teenage strop as much as anxiety.
> 
> ...


Yes, this!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> No not leash wrapped before what is this ? Loki has this face if you get firm that has RSPCA all over it.


I just read above that he doesn't wear a collar, you'll need a collar for a leash wrap. It's basically wrapping the leash around his chest, behind his front legs, this eliminates the oppositional reflex and give you more control over bigger dogs. 
I'll try to demo with Bates this afternoon 

Don't fall for the RSPCA face! It's a ruse!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sox would like to thank everyone for their advice but wonders why no one has suggested a baby boxer boot camp


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I find Bobby a challenge to walk and have handed that job to my husband. Although he's 8 years old it's like havng an exuberant puppy out wth me, though to be fair he is calming down and less excitable than he was. I suspect the gaps in his socialisation are at fault but he would go berserk every time he saw a dog or even people on the horizon and be desperate to charge up to them and make friends. He's much better with my OH and can walk calmly past if they don't pay him any attention.
( for those don't know his history we are his 4th home in 8 years through no fault of hs own and he has spent time on a puppy farm as a stud)


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

SusieRainbow said:


> I find Bobby a challenge to walk and have handed that job to my husband. Although he's 8 years old it's like havng an exuberant puppy out wth me, though to be fair he is calming down and less excitable than he was. I suspect the gaps in his socialisation are at fault but he would go berserk every time he saw a dog or even people on the horizon and be desperate to charge up to them and make friends. He's much better with my OH and can walk calmly past if they don't pay him any attention.
> ( for those don't know his history we are his 4th home in 8 years through no fault of hs own and he has spent time on a puppy farm as a stud)


I did give him to my sister on holiday as I felt my nerves were making it worse but he still was a wally. I don't really trust him with anybody else.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

One of the field rentals we use have give us a free session so we have two hours to use tomorrow.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Soz hooman ... and as always after the behaviour come the snugs.


----------



## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

Boxer123 said:


> One of the field rentals we use have give us a free session so we have two hours to use tomorrow.


Would you be able to use that free session another day? Just thinking that might help you spread out the non-walk options available to use rather than using all at once?


----------



## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Also, is there a reason your trainer can’t come until December? They are still allowed to do 1-2-1’s social distancing.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Torin. said:


> Would you be able to use that free session another day? Just thinking that might help you spread out the non-walk options available to use rather than using all at once?


She tends to give them out to regulars when she has spaces that have not been booked so tends to be set times if that makes sense. She is very nice only made this field as she has a reactive dog. We are going to a different field in the morning and this one in the afternoon.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Teddy-dog said:


> Also, is there a reason your trainer can't come until December? They are still allowed to do 1-2-1's social distancing.


Mine seems to think you can't. You can go for a walk with one other person but it's not an essential service ? (So says Boris he hasn't been crying all day because his dog is feral) I am so confused by the rules.


----------



## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

Boxer123 said:


> She tends to give them out to regulars when she has spaces that have not been booked so tends to be set times if that makes sense. She is very nice only made this field as she has a reactive dog. We are going to a different field in the morning and this one in the afternoon.


Oooh, that's lovely! Also two sessions in two different places sounds fab - I was imagining a single 2hr slot.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Torin. said:


> Oooh, that's lovely! Also two sessions in two different places sounds fab - I was imagining a single 2hr slot.


I have two fields I use, one has a field and a private secure woodland, the other is absolutely huge. We are very lucky lots of choice.


----------



## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Boxer123 said:


> Mine seems to think you can't. You can go for a walk with one other person but it's not an essential service ? (So says Boris he hasn't been crying all day because his dog is feral) I am so confused by the rules.


that's odd! They definitely can. It's not you can only work if you're an essential service. If you can't work from home you should work (which includes us dog walkers and trainers!).

"Dog trainers may continue to provide advice on training basis using technology to connect the trainer and client. It may also be possible to run classes by video link. If a trainer can utilise a secure safe outside area to provide training, clients can meet the trainer there providing social distance can be maintained and class sizes are limited to comply with current government guidance (2m should be adhered to where possible). There should be no physical contact between the trainer and client or dog and social distance should be maintained at all times."

That's from the official guidance (from canine and feline sector group) updated on 4th Nov.

Most trainers I know are still doing 1-2-1's but not classes (or zoom classes).

it's up to your trainer of course if they want to stop but they might change before December if they see the guidance?


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Teddy-dog said:


> that's odd! They definitely can. It's not you can only work if you're an essential service. If you can't work from home you should work (which includes us dog walkers and trainers!).
> 
> "Dog trainers may continue to provide advice on training basis using technology to connect the trainer and client. It may also be possible to run classes by video link. If a trainer can utilise a secure safe outside area to provide training, clients can meet the trainer there providing social distance can be maintained and class sizes are limited to comply with current government guidance (2m should be adhered to where possible). There should be no physical contact between the trainer and client or dog and social distance should be maintained at all times."
> 
> ...


Thank you i will query this with them.


----------



## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Boxer123 said:


> Thank you i will query this with them.


Though I do admit it isn't very clear so they may have interpreted things differently or got advice elsewhere!

I'm not a trainer so mostly been focusing on the walking guidelines but I know a few trainers who are still going in some form - even through zoom meetings!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Teddy-dog said:


> Though I do admit it isn't very clear so they may have interpreted things differently or got advice elsewhere!
> 
> I'm not a trainer so mostly been focusing on the walking guidelines but I know a few trainers who are still going in some form - even through zoom meetings!


They did offer zoom but I just feel I need them to come out with me in person.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Here ya go @Boxer123 - a leash wrap. 
Enjoy Bates' WTF mom look  He took one for the team on this one :Hilarious


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Even if you don't walk him on it a harness with a handle. Holding the handle directly I can move 46kg of demi-mute. It's difficult to fight against because you can partially lift upwards. Helps his aging joints in and out of the car too.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

diefenbaker said:


> Even if you don't walk him on it a harness with a handle. Holding the handle directly I can move 46kg of demi-mute. It's difficult to fight against because you can partially lift upwards. Helps his aging joints in and out of the car too.


Dief!! Where the hell have you been?! Good to see ya!


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> Dief!! Where the hell have you been?! Good to see ya!


See running thread. Working too hard and playing too much chess.


----------



## Tallinn (Sep 12, 2017)

Boxer123 said:


> They did offer zoom but I just feel I need them to come out with me in person.


Hi - just wanted to say that trainers are definitely allowed to do 1:1 in person sessions in this current lock down.

We had an in person lesson today. Hearing Dogs are a stickler for obeying all the rules and if there was any doubt at all no 1:1 in person training would be taking place.

Good luck with Loki - they can all really wind us up now and then.


----------



## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

The dog trainer in question might be in a higher risk group, or live with/ support higher risk people, whereby being more cautious than is legally 'allowed' feels safest for them during the lockdown period. So make certain they know they can legally if chosen, but don't place them in a position where they feel they need to out personal details about their family or their situation to keep you as a client.


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Hey @Boxer123 I don't have anything to add to the fantastic advice you've already received, but just wanted to drop in to say that I am sorry you have had a bad day. Sending you hugs from me, licks from Holly and dribble and bogies from George. X


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Torin. said:


> The dog trainer in question might be in a higher risk group, or live with/ support higher risk people, whereby being more cautious than is legally 'allowed' feels safest for them during the lockdown period. So make certain they know they can legally if chosen, but don't place them in a position where they feel they need to out personal details about their family or their situation to keep you as a client.


Yes very possibly the case I've emailed just to ask if there is anything I should do in the meantime and about the head collar. I've had some great advice on here I will start working on and reduce walks.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

I can't be of much help, but just wanted to say I do have some idea of what you're going through because Comrade Grisha does exactly the same thing.

Like @diefenbaker I've found a harness with a handle on the back is a real asset when you need to shift a stubborn dog. I'm old an not very strong but I could easily move 17kg Georgina and at only 13 kg Grisha is a doddle.

And on a slightly lighter note, consider yourself lucky. At least Loki is only a juvenile delinquent who will eventually grow up. I on the other hand have to learn to live with a wannabee assassin and a serial killer for whom there is no hope.

Hugs and tell that Loki fella to be a good boy or I'll send the Schnauzer gang over to sort him out


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Here ya go @Boxer123 - a leash wrap.
> Enjoy Bates' WTF mom look  He took one for the team on this one :Hilarious


Love Penny's input !


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Boxer123 said:


> Love Penny's input !


Me too.  I could see the devilment in her eyes.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

LinznMilly said:


> Me too.  I could see the devilment in her eyes.


Loki would love Penny.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Love Penny's input !


Her FOMO is on full display here  I should have leash wrapped her swamp rat self!


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I have to say, this is why I stick with this forum and come back after breaks, because where else could you find such amazing supportive people? I mean someone thousands of miles away makes you a quick helpful video because they know you are struggling. We need places like this, especially at the moment. 
Love you guys :Shamefullyembarrased


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sarah H said:


> I have to say, this is why I stick with this forum and come back after breaks, because where else could you find such amazing supportive people? I mean someone thousands of miles away makes you a quick helpful video because they know you are struggling. We need places like this, especially at the moment.
> Love you guys :Shamefullyembarrased


And they say social media has ruined us!
It's nice to see the positive side of it from time to time.


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Sarah H said:


> I have to say, this is why I stick with this forum and come back after breaks, because where else could you find such amazing supportive people? I mean someone thousands of miles away makes you a quick helpful video because they know you are struggling. We need places like this, especially at the moment.
> Love you guys :Shamefullyembarrased


This is always my go-to place for advice. I find that advice from the regulars here is sound (even though you get different viewpoints, which in my view is a good thing) and even when people aren't sure of the answer support is there. I feel comfortable to ask for advice on here without judgement which is really nice.


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> And they say social media has ruined us!
> It's nice to see the positive side of it from time to time.


I definitely think that this forum is one of the more positive aspects of social media. Shame we can't all meet up in real life.


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Sairy said:


> I definitely think that this forum is one of the more positive aspects of social media. Shame we can't all meet up in real life.


Zoom PF Xmas party??


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Sarah H said:


> Zoom PF Xmas party??


That actually sounds amazing! Holly says she is well up for that!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sarah H said:


> I have to say, this is why I stick with this forum and come back after breaks, because where else could you find such amazing supportive people? I mean someone thousands of miles away makes you a quick helpful video because they know you are struggling. We need places like this, especially at the moment.
> Love you guys :Shamefullyembarrased


Absolutely I'm over whelmed with the kind responses on here. It's so nice to know your not alone.


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Sarah H said:


> Zoom PF Xmas party??


Oooh - that sounds amazing. I think we should.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Sarah H said:


> I have to say, this is why I stick with this forum and come back after breaks, because where else could you find such amazing supportive people? I mean someone thousands of miles away makes you a quick helpful video because they know you are struggling. We need places like this, especially at the moment.
> Love you guys :Shamefullyembarrased


I agree. this forum has been a support rock for me, people who have know idea who I'm supported me so much last year, I'm sure how I would have managed without them, I still can't thank them enough.


----------



## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

Reactive dogs...nightmare! 
Baillie was only reactive to collies, so easy enough to avoid. Dougie (after being told by the rescue he was fine with dogs ) ended up being reactive with big dogs and had a wish to kill small dogs (prey drive).
Dogmatics for both.
Baillie came to us on a halti so no training needed. Dougie - I actually trained him to be happy walking in one!
Once again this forum was a great help.
I used a video posted (I think) by Sairy for muzzle training. (Muzzle trained him first then used same method for dogmatic)
If I can do it, you can!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

rottiemum said:


> Reactive dogs...nightmare!
> Baillie was only reactive to collies, so easy enough to avoid. Dougie (after being told by the rescue he was fine with dogs ) ended up being reactive with big dogs and had a wish to kill small dogs (prey drive).
> Dogmatics for both.
> Baillie came to us on a halti so no training needed. Dougie - I actually trained him to be happy walking in one!
> ...


Thank you I hope it helps at least until I can get him a bit less reactive.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Love Penny's input !


I meant to ask, do you see what @Cleo38 and I are saying about walking in to Loki?

I'm basically pushing in to Bates while holding him up with the leash wrap, his *only* choice here is to move a foot. He can't lay down (which some dogs will try and I wouldn't put it past Loki) because I'm holding him up with the leash wrap. Once you get one foot moving, jolly him up, get all excited and get him moving with you.

He will likely fight you the first few times, don't engage the 'fight' part of it, just stay firm. This is not an argument, you're just eliminating choices.
Eventually he will see you go for the leash wrap and go "FINE! I'm moving." This creates one of those 'non negotiables' I was talking about.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I meant to ask, do you see what @Cleo38 and I are saying about walking in to Loki?
> 
> I'm basically pushing in to Bates while holding him up with the leash wrap, his *only* choice here is to move a foot. He can't lay down (which some dogs will try and I wouldn't put it past Loki) because I'm holding him up with the leash wrap. Once you get one foot moving, jolly him up, get all excited and get him moving with you.
> 
> ...


I do yes I've used this in the past to a certain degree for example moving him to the side of a path but not to get out of certain situations I think I give up to easy.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I think you mentioned in a previous post that you were worried about destroying your relationship with Loki @Boxer123 & I wondered what you meant by this. Do you feel that by being stricter with him will do this? I honestly don't think it will, he might find it difficult initially (as @O2.0 mentioned) but it's only because his usual tactics weren't working.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Cleo38 said:


> I think you mentioned in a previous post that you were worried about destroying your relationship with Loki @Boxer123 & I wondered what you meant by this. Do you feel that by being stricter with him will do this? I honestly don't think it will, he might find it difficult initially (as @O2.0 mentioned) but it's only because his usual tactics weren't working.


It's hard to explain but i just worry if I man handle him to much he won't trust me does that make sense. I want him to enjoy his walks and when I see him like yesterday I think he's not at all. I guess I also find it embarrassing to be unable to move my dog. The whole situation gets very emotional. Since a tiny pup he's been such hard work but I do love him loads and just want him to be happy.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Boxer123 said:


> It's hard to explain but i just worry if I man handle him to much he won't trust me does that make sense. I want him to enjoy his walks and when I see him like yesterday I think he's not at all. I guess I also find it embarrassing to be unable to move my dog. The whole situation gets very emotional. Since a tiny pup he's been such hard work but I do love him loads and just want him to be happy.


I understand what you mean but I think there is lots you can do to ensure this doesn't happen (& am sure you do this already). I remember attending a seminar with Susan Freidman & she was talking of the relationship with an animal being like a bank account, you pay in lots so at times when something doesn't go right & you make a mistake or have to do something unpleasant it's like a withdrawal. If the balance is healthy to begin with then the impact will not be as great.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Boxer123 said:


> It's hard to explain but i just worry if I man handle him to much he won't trust me does that make sense. I want him to enjoy his walks and when I see him like yesterday I think he's not at all. I guess I also find it embarrassing to be unable to move my dog. The whole situation gets very emotional. Since a tiny pup he's been such hard work but I do love him loads and just want him to be happy.


It makes sense to me, but I can assure you, if shove comes to push, I've never hesitated to "manhandle" my dogs. Grisha often gets shoved inside the house when he won't go in under his own steam. Gwylim is sometimes reluctant to get out of the car so he gets picked up and dumped unceremoniously on the driveway.

I haven't noticed either of them being less trusting or loving towards me even though I sometimes think I'm a horrible woman.


----------



## rottieboys (Jan 16, 2013)

Walking a 45kg Rottweiler who hates other dogs, cats and looking for squirrels is extremely difficult . 
I use a dogmatic head collar which give me the control I need. Elsa, has to be walked round the streets for her exercise because parks are no good for me with Elsa. Dogmatic is the best collar I have ever used.I avoid other dogs by staying the opposite side of the roads plus hiding Elsa with park cars. Not ideal, But it works for me. I hope you get your situation sorted out. I am sure you will.


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Cleo38 said:


> I understand what you mean but I think there is lots you can do to ensure this doesn't happen (& am sure you do this already). I remember attending a seminar with Susan Freidman & she was talking of the relations with an animal being like a bank account, you pay in lots so at times when something doesn't go right & you make a mistake or have to do something unpleasant it's like a withdrawal. if the balance is healthy to begin with then the impact will not be as great.


I LOVE the relationship bank account analogy and use it a lot with clients, especially those who struggle to set boundaries and rules.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Cleo38 said:


> I understand what you mean but I think there is lots you can do to ensure this doesn't happen (& am sure you do this already). I remember attending a seminar with Susan Freidman & she was talking of the relations with an animal being like a bank account, you pay in lots so at times when something doesn't go right & you make a mistake or have to do something unpleasant it's like a withdrawal. If the balance is healthy to begin with then the impact will not be as great.


Love this Loki's balance is very healthy I hope. He is a very pampered and loved boy.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Magyarmum said:


> It makes sense to me, but I can assure you, if shove comes to push, I've never hesitated to "manhandle" my dogs. Grisha often gets shoved inside the house when he won't go in under his own steam. Gwylim is sometimes reluctant to get out of the car so he gets picked up and dumped unceremoniously on the driveway.
> 
> I haven't noticed either of them being less trusting or loving towards me even though I sometimes think I'm a horrible woman.


 The schnauzer boys know what side their bread is buttered !


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

@Boxer123 I suddenly remembered that Denise Fenzi is now hosting pet dog training online seminars/classes on the Fenzi Academy website. I've done a few classes on from this academy as a bronze student & they have all been fantastic & very useful. I would definitely recommend having a look to see if you would find them beneficial ...

Ihttps://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/29570?fbclid=IwAR0fnrXasDZyhuECUNn8IJp0Y7Fnm1dgBVSOoeGeA-4_j3U7Mb7JxPZoe8I


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Cleo38 said:


> @Boxer123 I suddenly remembered that Denise Fenzi is now hosting pet dog training online seminars/classes on the Fenzi Academy website. I've done a few classes on from this academy as a bronze student & they have all been fantastic & very useful. I would definitely recommend having a look to see if you would find them beneficial ...
> 
> Ihttps://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/29570?fbclid=IwAR0fnrXasDZyhuECUNn8IJp0Y7Fnm1dgBVSOoeGeA-4_j3U7Mb7JxPZoe8I


Thank you I will take a look.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Loki has had a good day. A dog walked past the dog field Loki shot off before I could catch him. But looked at the dog through the fence they both wagged their tails I called Loki back and he came straight away.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)




----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Good boy Loki, let's give mum a break for a while shall we?


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sarah H said:


> Good boy Loki, let's give mum a break for a while shall we?


Doubtful I'm off to poach his dinner now.


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> she was talking of the relationship with an animal being like a bank account, you pay in lots so at times when something doesn't go right & you make a mistake or have to do something unpleasant it's like a withdrawal. If the balance is healthy to begin with then the impact will not be as great.


Just to add, this works with people too. I'm fairly sure it's from Steven Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.


----------



## puppymadness (Aug 20, 2009)

Hi lovely I haven't been on in ages and just catching up. I don't have any advice but I just wanted to say something. As I follow you on Instagram I see the pictures you post of Loki and sox, they are loved and you live them! It's clear to see how adored these pair are and how.lucky they are xxx


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

puppymadness said:


> Hi lovely I haven't been on in ages and just catching up. I don't have any advice but I just wanted to say something. As I follow you on Instagram I see the pictures you post of Loki and sox, they are loved and you live them! It's clear to see how adored these pair are and how.lucky they are xxx


Thank you x


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Magyarmum said:


> It makes sense to me, but I can assure you, if shove comes to push, I've never hesitated to "manhandle" my dogs. Grisha often gets shoved inside the house when he won't go in under his own steam. Gwylim is sometimes reluctant to get out of the car so he gets picked up and dumped unceremoniously on the driveway.
> 
> I haven't noticed either of them being less trusting or loving towards me even though I sometimes think I'm a horrible woman.


Must say I've done the same. All part and parcel of being a mum to dogs. 



puppymadness said:


> Hi lovely I haven't been on in ages and just catching up. I don't have any advice but I just wanted to say something. As I follow you on Instagram I see the pictures you post of Loki and sox, they are loved and you live them! It's clear to see how adored these pair are and how.lucky they are xxx


Absolutely! I'm not on Instagram, but completely agree with this.

PS welcome back.


----------



## MissKittyKat (Jan 23, 2016)

@Boxer123 just seen the thread and read through.

No training advice as you've had loads from some very skilled people but just wondering if you had considered some quick canine massage techniques which might just be enough to break the state so you can get him moving. This of course is only ok if he can be touched when he's stressed and would need to be a bit preemptive of a situation.

I know he relaxes completely at home, seen the pics so was thinking if you could take this into the outside world it may help.

There are 2 moves I am thinking of but need to find a way of explaining.

It's just another suggestion x

PS: maybe he feels he needs to live up to his me


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MissKittyKat said:


> @Boxer123 just seen the thread and read through.
> 
> No training advice as you've had loads from some very skilled people but just wondering if you had considered some quick canine massage techniques which might just be enough to break the state so you can get him moving. This of course is only ok if he can be touched when he's stressed and would need to be a bit preemptive of a situation.
> 
> ...


Thank you we have done some massages from you tube which he loves so I would be interested to know the moves. He is very chilled at home and is very tactile.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> Must say I've done the same. All part and parcel of being a mum to dogs.
> 
> Absolutely! I'm not on Instagram, but completely agree with this.
> 
> PS welcome back.


My neighbours must think I'm bonkers watching me frogmarch my dogs down the road to a loud singsong-y "one two, one two one two, come one keep going"!  Most important thing is - it's works at least for us!


----------



## MissKittyKat (Jan 23, 2016)

Boxer123 said:


> Thank you we have done some massages from you tube which he loves so I would be interested to know the moves. He is very chilled at home and is very tactile.


Will have a think on how best to explain, may have to resort to video but avoiding my face!

For this time of work the hardest thing will be doing the techniques slow enough so that you don't stimulate the nervous system. You can never do them too slow x


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MissKittyKat said:


> Will have a think on how best to explain, may have to resort to video but avoiding my face!
> 
> For this time of work the hardest thing will be doing the techniques slow enough so that you don't stimulate the nervous system. You can never do them too slow x


We don't mind your face


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

@Boxer123 I thought of you this morning and thought you might appreciate my little story of embarrassment that happened to me, so you can not feel so alone. Granted, it wasn't a reactivity issue but it was still cringeworthy on my part. I was out walking Chewie, a client's dog. They live really close to a primary school and it was 9am so loads of kids and parents walking to the school. I kept Chewie close because he loves people and will lunge at them for a fuss given the chance. However, that was the least of my worries. He stopped to cock his leg up someone's wall, which I didn't allow him to do so pulled him away. However, he obviously really needed a wee and proceeded to do the biggest wee known to man all over the pavement, right where people were walking :Bag. It just wouldn't stop! It was so bad that I turned around to advise the people behind me to watch their step, but thankfully they were already crossing the road. So embarrassing! :Bag:Bag:Bag


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sairy said:


> @Boxer123 I thought of you this morning and thought you might appreciate my little story of embarrassment that happened to me, so you can not feel so alone. Granted, it wasn't a reactivity issue but it was still cringeworthy on my part. I was out walking Chewie, a client's dog. They live really close to a primary school and it was 9am so loads of kids and parents walking to the school. I kept Chewie close because he loves people and will lunge at them for a fuss given the chance. However, that was the least of my worries. He stopped to cock his leg up someone's wall, which I didn't allow him to do so pulled him away. However, he obviously really needed a wee and proceeded to do the biggest wee known to man all over the pavement, right where people were walking :Bag. It just wouldn't stop! It was so bad that I turned around to advise the people behind me to watch their step, but thankfully they were already crossing the road. So embarrassing! :Bag:Bag:Bag


This does make me feel a little better


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Well everyone @Cleo38 @O2.0 it worked I'm amazed !

Normally the boys go out early for a walk but today we chilled and around 10 I figured the village would have done their morning walk and it will be quiet for Loki to go on a quick poop walk.

We set of and bumped into my neighbour and his westie pup which was fine quick hello and move on loki likes this dog and human lucky them.

Then as we are crossing a path there is a person with a lab walking towards us. We are due to go straight on so didn't have to meet of course Loki plonks his butt down.

I walked into him and him and moved him a bit he was still straining to turn around so I leash wrapped him of sorts and walked him sideways. He then started moving voluntarily and we were on our way. I used let's go throughout. We were far enough away when the dog crossed the path Loki looked but no reaction. He then got lots of praise.


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Boxer123 said:


> Well everyone @Cleo38 @O2.0 it worked I'm amazed !
> 
> Normally the boys go out early for a walk but today we chilled and around 10 I figured the village would have done their morning walk and it will be quiet for Loki to go on a quick poop walk.
> 
> ...


Well done, that's fantastic! Sounds like you had better luck than me this morning :Hilarious

So glad it worked for you. I might leash wrap Chewie's wiener next time we go out!


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Well everyone @Cleo38 @O2.0 it worked I'm amazed !
> 
> Normally the boys go out early for a walk but today we chilled and around 10 I figured the village would have done their morning walk and it will be quiet for Loki to go on a quick poop walk.
> 
> ...


Woo hoo!!! Yay @Boxer123 and yay Loki!! This makes me so happy to read, I can hear the relief in your post just having another tool. And he was fine about it wasn't he? No RSPCA face?

The leash wrap can have a calming effect a little like a thundershirt because it's a tightening around their chest. (Never did on Breez, but I hear some dogs find it calming.)

Remember he may test you on this new approach of yours, don't take it personally, he's just figuring out all the angles. Once he understands that 'let's go' really does mean let's go and he can either go on his own or you will help him go, you're golden


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

After doing a quick google search for leash wrap technique/method, I feel like I need to clarify for lurkers: Never leash wrap a dog behind their rib cage! The first google image I found was a leash wrap to stop pulling and the leash was way far back on the dog, behind the last rib and a good lunge could do some organ squishing - I do not recommend squishing organs! 
Also you lose the calming effect if you squeeze the belly instead of the rib cage. 
Get that leash snug up against the back of the front legs!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Woo hoo!!! Yay @Boxer123 and yay Loki!! This makes me so happy to read, I can hear the relief in your post just having another tool. And he was fine about it wasn't he? No RSPCA face?
> 
> The leash wrap can have a calming effect a little like a thundershirt because it's a tightening around their chest. (Never did on Breez, but I hear some dogs find it calming.)
> 
> Remember he may test you on this new approach of yours, don't take it personally, he's just figuring out all the angles. Once he understands that 'let's go' really does mean let's go and he can either go on his own or you will help him go, you're golden


No RSPCA face this is what made me so happy instead of 10 minutes of fighting whilst the person appears it literally took about 30 seconds to get him going. He was a bit 'hooman what you doing there' but I didn't feel I was manhandling him or being mean. Then when he moved his butt and got going we stopped for kisses.

I am sure he will test me loki was sent to me by a higher being to teach me about patience and love but it is good to know I can move him !

Sox is aghast at puppers recent behaviour waits patiently for him to be returned to breeder.


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

O2.0 said:


> After doing a quick google search for leash wrap technique/method, I feel like I need to clarify for lurkers: Never leash wrap a dog behind their rib cage! The first google image I found was a leash wrap to stop pulling and the leash was way far back on the dog, behind the last rib and a good lunge could do some organ squishing - I do not recommend squishing organs!
> Also you lose the calming effect if you squeeze the belly instead of the rib cage.
> Get that leash snug up against the back of the front legs!


Sadly, I've seen a number of people do it behind the ribcage as a "training" device. Not good.


----------



## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Aww yay so glad you managed to shift him successfully


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Yaaay! Nice work @Boxer123 !!! That's such great news & must be a bit of a boost to your confidence now knowing you have something that works. I would practice the "let's go" making it fun & a game so you can get it become a voluntary behaviour. Honestly the more challenging the dog the better dog owner you will become as you will learn alot


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Sairy said:


> @Boxer123 I thought of you this morning and thought you might appreciate my little story of embarrassment that happened to me, so you can not feel so alone. Granted, it wasn't a reactivity issue but it was still cringeworthy on my part. I was out walking Chewie, a client's dog. They live really close to a primary school and it was 9am so loads of kids and parents walking to the school. I kept Chewie close because he loves people and will lunge at them for a fuss given the chance. However, that was the least of my worries. He stopped to cock his leg up someone's wall, which I didn't allow him to do so pulled him away. However, he obviously really needed a wee and proceeded to do the biggest wee known to man all over the pavement, right where people were walking :Bag. It just wouldn't stop! It was so bad that I turned around to advise the people behind me to watch their step, but thankfully they were already crossing the road. So embarrassing! :Bag:Bag:Bag


Gwylim once let me down by doing a poo in the city centre right next to a tram stop with a long queue of people watching.


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Magyarmum said:


> Gwylim once let me down by doing a poo in the city centre right next to a tram stop with a long queue of people watching.


Haha, yes a nice public poop. Red faces all round.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Sairy said:


> @Boxer123 I thought of you this morning and thought you might appreciate my little story of embarrassment that happened to me, so you can not feel so alone. Granted, it wasn't a reactivity issue but it was still cringeworthy on my part. I was out walking Chewie, a client's dog. They live really close to a primary school and it was 9am so loads of kids and parents walking to the school. I kept Chewie close because he loves people and will lunge at them for a fuss given the chance. However, that was the least of my worries. He stopped to cock his leg up someone's wall, which I didn't allow him to do so pulled him away. However, he obviously really needed a wee and proceeded to do the biggest wee known to man all over the pavement, right where people were walking :Bag. It just wouldn't stop! It was so bad that I turned around to advise the people behind me to watch their step, but thankfully they were already crossing the road. So embarrassing! :Bag:Bag:Bag


Ha, I can beat this one. Standing with the pony pair in the carriage outside a church at a wedding. The bagpipes started and they always had an unfortunate effect on one of the ponies. He relaxed and did the most enormous pee which ran down the road and totally flooded the entrance where all the guests were coming out so they had to either step over it or ruin their best shoes. To say nothing of the road rattling farts which usually accompany horses that are having a pee.


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Blitz said:


> Ha, I can beat this one. Standing with the pony pair in the carriage outside a church at a wedding. The bagpipes started and they always had an unfortunate effect on one of the ponies. He relaxed and did the most enormous pee which ran down the road and totally flooded the entrance where all the guests were coming out so they had to either step over it or ruin their best shoes. To say nothing of the road rattling farts which usually accompany horses that are having a pee.


Oh Blitz that's hilarious! :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Magyarmum said:


> Gwylim once let me down by doing a poo in the city centre right next to a tram stop with a long queue of people watching.


Hahahaha! Remind me of a Christmas Day when I took Toby, Roxy & Archer to the beach. We have lovely huge beaches in West Norfolk but the car park was quite busy so lots of people around as we walked down to the beach. All three were on leads as it was busy & there were cars about. leash walking was always a bit difficult as they were never really on leads usually & I rarely took all three dogs out together anyway.

So Archer was running circles round me like a knob as he was so excited, Roxy was getting stressed & looking at which unknown dog she wanted to bark at so I started to hurry them along butToby then decided he would stop to have a poo ...... honestly it was like something off a comedy show!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Cleo38 said:


> Yaaay! Nice work @Boxer123 !!! That's such great news & must be a bit of a boost to your confidence now knowing you have something that works. I would practice the "let's go" making it fun & a game so you can get it become a voluntary behaviour. Honestly the more challenging the dog the better dog owner you will become as you will learn alot


Yes let's go is our top priority now !

I think Sox spoiled me he's so good. He did go through a reactive stage but only if a dog bolted over to him and scared him. He will go anywhere I go and follow me. Recall no issues, settling no issues.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Blitz said:


> Ha, I can beat this one. Standing with the pony pair in the carriage outside a church at a wedding. The bagpipes started and they always had an unfortunate effect on one of the ponies. He relaxed and did the most enormous pee which ran down the road and totally flooded the entrance where all the guests were coming out so they had to either step over it or ruin their best shoes. To say nothing of the road rattling farts which usually accompany horses that are having a pee.


 Hilarious!


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Woop! Woop! :Woot



Cleo38 said:


> Yaaay! Nice work @Boxer123 !!! That's such great news & must be a bit of a boost to your confidence now knowing you have something that works. I would practice the "let's go" making it fun & a game so you can get it become a voluntary behaviour. *Honestly the more challenging the dog the better dog owner you will become as you will learn alot*


I absolutely agree with that! I'm a much better owner thanks to Madam Milly than I would have been otherwise.


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Cleo38 said:


> Hahahaha! Remind me of a Christmas Day when I took Toby, Roxy & Archer to the beach. We have lovely huge beaches in West Norfolk but the car park was quite busy so lots of people around as we walked down to the beach. All three were on leads as it was busy & there were cars about. leash walking was always a bit difficult as they were never really on leads usually & I rarely took all three dogs out together anyway.
> 
> So Archer was running circles round me like a knob as he was so excited, Roxy was getting stressed & looking at which unknown dog she wanted to bark at so I started to hurry them along butToby then decided he would stop to have a poo ...... honestly it was like something off a comedy show!


:Hilarious

Poo and beaches... Holly had diarrhoea in the sea once. Tried to collect as much as I could but then a bloody great big wave came and washed it all into me :Yuck

Of course there were quite a few people on the beach who witnessed it :Bag


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Ha, I can beat this one. Standing with the pony pair in the carriage outside a church at a wedding. The bagpipes started and they always had an unfortunate effect on one of the ponies. He relaxed and did the most enormous pee which ran down the road and totally flooded the entrance where all the guests were coming out so they had to either step over it or ruin their best shoes. To say nothing of the road rattling farts which usually accompany horses that are having a pee.


:Hilarious :Hilarious :Hilarious :Hilarious


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sairy said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> Poo and beaches... Holly had diarrhoea in the sea once. Tried to collect as much as I could but then a bloody great big wave came and washed it all into me :Yuck
> 
> Of course there were quite a few people on the beach who witnessed it :Bag


I'll never forget Soxs frothy sea water squits down the promenade.


----------



## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Boxer123 said:


> I'll never forget Soxs frothy sea water squits down the promenade.


I have to be really careful these days to limit Holly's time in the sea as she also gets the sea squits.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Boxer123 said:


> I'll never forget Soxs frothy sea water squits down the promenade.


I don't don't think I want to know. :Wideyed


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> instead of 10 minutes of fighting whilst the person appears it literally took about 30 seconds to get him going. He was a bit 'hooman what you doing there' but I didn't feel I was manhandling him or being mean.


This is so great to read


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Boxer123 said:


> Well everyone @Cleo38 @O2.0 it worked I'm amazed !
> 
> Normally the boys go out early for a walk but today we chilled and around 10 I figured the village would have done their morning walk and it will be quiet for Loki to go on a quick poop walk.
> 
> ...


What a great boost to your confidence and well done Loki for being a very good boy.

Long may it last!


----------



## puppymadness (Aug 20, 2009)

Yay well done @Boxer123 and Loki


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

LinznMilly said:


> I don't don't think I want to know. :Wideyed


Drink to much sea water, get terrible foamy diarrhoea, all over promenade I'm desperately rinsing with my water bottle. Shame.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

When we had our last two the older one had spondylosis later in life and began losing fecal continence, thankfully she mostly had hard poos.
One day we were walking through a campsite to the entrance where we could walk the dogs and give them a chance to toilet, when we heard an ‘ahem’ behind us. Turned round and saw several peeved looking people one of who was pointing to a neat row of pellet like poo’s dropped by Tora who was totally oblivious.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

We've spent the rest of the day in the garden whilst I worked on my laptop. A few training sessions and an epic game of sprinkles.


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Boxer123 said:


> Just need to figure out the size for him.


If it's a 4, I have one (not leather) you can have. I found it washed up on the shore. Washed it and it's in good order. Red.
The hyper-vigilance you've mentioned - expecting Freddy Kruger to leap out of bushes; I wonder if you're also becoming hyper-vigilant, looking out for things that he could react to. Then you tense up, he feels it and becomes more likely to kick off because he thinks you're seeing these other people/dogs as threats..


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

O2.0 said:


> Here ya go @Boxer123 - a leash wrap.
> Enjoy Bates' WTF mom look  He took one for the team on this one :Hilarious


I do something similar with Fly sometimes, using a long plaited fleece lead. With it on like that, she doesn't even try to pull. Someone showed it to me at an agility show a few years back.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Burrowzig said:


> If it's a 4, I have one (not leather) you can have. I found it washed up on the shore. Washed it and it's in good order. Red.
> The hyper-vigilance you've mentioned - expecting Freddy Kruger to leap out of bushes; I wonder if you're also becoming hyper-vigilant, looking out for things that he could react to. Then you tense up, he feels it and becomes more likely to kick off because he thinks you're seeing these other people/dogs as threats..


Thank you I'm going to have a good look at sizing this weekend.

I think part of the problem is me getting anxious but he's always been quite alert. For example during lockdown we went on a run every day down the river never saw anyone. One day on a certain spot we met some goldens nice dogs he didn't like them. Never saw them again but if ever we go on that walk he sits down on the exact spot and refuses to move looking for them.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Boxer123 said:


> Thank you I'm going to have a good look at sizing this weekend.
> 
> I think part of the problem is me getting anxious but he's always been quite alert. For example during lockdown we went on a run every day down the river never saw anyone. One day on a certain spot we met some goldens nice dogs he didn't like them. Never saw them again but if ever we go on that walk he sits down on the exact spot and refuses to move looking for them.


Grisha did that in front of a house where they previously had a dog which had barked at him. That was months ago and the dog is no longer there, but even so he still sat down and refused to budge.

Don't know whether it's possible for you to do the same, but with Grisha we now approach the house from the opposite direction. Before was across the bridge which meant the house was directly in front of us. By going the other way round, the house is to our left and I can head him towards the bridge on our right which means he never gets a direct view of the house.

Going that way round he doesn't even notice the house 

Honestly I sometimes think you need a Masters in doggy psychology before you own a dog!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Magyarmum said:


> Grisha did that in front of a house where they previously had a dog which had barked at him. That was months ago and the dog is no longer there, but even so he still sat down and refused to budge.
> 
> Don't know whether it's possible for you to do the same, but with Grisha we now approach the house from the opposite direction. Before was across the bridge which meant the house was directly in front of us. By going the other way round, the house is to our left and I can head him towards the bridge on our right which means he never gets a direct view of the house.
> 
> ...


I would love to understand Loki's mind ! If only they could talk. Sox used to live to walk to the place he saw a cat one time.


----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Magyarmum said:


> Grisha did that in front of a house where they previously had a dog which had barked at him. That was months ago and the dog is no longer there, but even so he still sat down and refused to budge.
> 
> Don't know whether it's possible for you to do the same, but with Grisha we now approach the house from the opposite direction. Before was across the bridge which meant the house was directly in front of us. By going the other way round, the house is to our left and I can head him towards the bridge on our right which means he never gets a direct view of the house.
> 
> ...


Thunder was like that
If we came to our house from the normal direction she knew it was the end of her walk, would try ragging at lead, mouthing, twisting and turning to escape collar etc
If we circled the house and came from opposite direction, then all was well with the world and in she would trot good as gold !


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Boxer123 said:


> I would love to understand Loki's mind ! If only they could talk. Sox used to live to walk to the place he saw a cat one time.


M'boi my first Pei wouldn't walk past the local cemetery. She'd dig her heels in and refuse to move, Even when I tried to avoid her seeing it by cutting across the fields, she only had to spot it a couple of hundred yards away, and she'd turn tail and run. The same with an old abandoned house in the woods. The minute she spotted it she'd stop and want to go home. All very spooky.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Thai holds a grudge...big time.
There is one house that we walk past that has 3 Beagles, all 3 dogs jump up onto the window sill going mental when they see dogs. This used to be a huge trigger for him and even if the dogs weren't there his heckles would go up before we got to the house and he would have to stare at the window waiting for them to show up...sometimes they did pop up as we came parallel to the window so in Thai's mind his behaviour was validated.

I made that house part of training (I don't like using other peoples dogs going crazy for training, but the owners didn't stop their dogs so I had to get a handle on Thai's behaviour). I would walk up to the point just before his body language stiffened and then we would stop, have a quick game (tug, find the treat, or just asked for a few tricks) and then went back the way we came to carry on our walk. Over time we got closer and closer to the house and he stopped looking for the dogs.
Thai's reaction was to build up to a complete melt down so I had to really work to stop that building into a habit.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

To update we have ordered a head collar to try if I can’t get him happy in it it will sit un used but I’d like to try just to see if it helps my anxiety.

Ive been practicing let’s go in the garden on the lead with lots of treats. Trying to make it fun changing direction. I hope this is the right approach. We’ve reduced walks and will continue to do so until he is a bit happier. He has had a good run at the field. I went out ran 16 miles the boys were still sleeping.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)




----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Bless you @Boxer123 . You can hear the stress and fatigue in your posts ((hugs)).


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

LinznMilly said:


> Bless you @Boxer123 . You can hear the stress and fatigue in your posts ((hugs)).


I'm feeling better now I have a plan. We got out the car today and a neighbour asked how we were he didn't bark at her at all maybe those he does are wrong uns !


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

We had a good walk today. Bumped into a neighbour who stopped to say hello. I kept him between my legs and he was fine. We then spotted another neighbour who is very shy he waited for us to go by and sort of his in a bush. Now if there is one thing loki doesn't like its men sckulking around. He was reluctant to walk past but did and didn't bark.

We then bumped into a man with a little Jack Russell. She ran up to loki and growled. He was fine we waited for her owner to catch her. They went one way I decided to go another down goes the butt! I had turkey in my pocket so he moved happily for that whilst I repeated 'let's go' .

Now it's cuddles time. Of course being good is a limited resource for baby boxer. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Just to update so I don't take @tabelmabel thread off track.

Loki's headcollar has arrived he's had a look and put his head in it a few times no issue. I spent an hour on zoom to my trainer Friday she's not crazy keen on head collars @O2.0 you two are very similar.  As is your advice but yours is free yay.

When Loki is on his harness I'm never close to letting go my concern is how it looks and that we will be reported. I was hoping a head collar would give me more control when he does go. When he does he looks so aggressive it's awful.

Now in the last week since this thread started I have been following your suggestions we have had one incident of Loki reacting this is with another neighbour and her lab. We managed to make a fair bit of space and thus neighbour is lovely I always apologise when I see her without Loki and she's so nice.

Apart from this one incident we have met a few other dogs and people and he's been good: We have managed to avoid triggers such as sculking men with turkey in abundance using the phrase let's go.

Any way my trainer has suggested I kit myself out in nervous dog/ dog in training gear including a high viz vest for me so people can see we are trying rather than the head collar. So now I'm in a quandary.

We are also going to have a full behaviour assessment by someone with lots of letters after his name who she's recommended he runs reactive dog classes but assessment first. This is happening next month.

To be honest since September work has been so busy I've taken my eye off Loki in the summer we were focused. I'm going back to basics with engagement stuff and his clicker which he likes.


----------



## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Appreciated @Boxer123 - i didnt really want my own thread turning into a head collar debate thread


----------



## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

I had " I Need Space" stuff on Alfie. It helped sometimes which is better than never. One man actually commented on what a good idea it was and how it had stopped him approaching Alfie for a cuddle.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Kaily said:


> I had " I Need Space" stuff on Alfie. It helped sometimes which is better than never. One man actually commented on what a good idea it was and how it had stopped him approaching Alfie for a cuddle.


I did find a 'I'm a **** give me space ' bandana but she said nervous was better. I have a lead but am looking for a vest for him to stand out more.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

tabelmabel said:


> Appreciated @Boxer123 - i didnt really want my own thread turning into a head collar debate thread


Im still going to see how we get on if it doesn't upset him I'll use it and obviously if we have no luck with behaviour man.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I don’t know many dogs who ‘like’ headcollars, but some things have to be part of the trade off between dogs and people. 

Dog doesn’t have to dig a hole in the snow for a bed, or hunt his own food; hooman doesn’t have to fear taking their dog for a walk because they feel they have no control over whatever their dog decides to do.

Sometimes the dog just has to ‘suck it up’ for the benefit of the whole team.

PS Don’t let Loki read this.


----------



## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

I have a yellow dog vest lying around somewhere going spare. 
It does say _give me space/in training_ rather than _nervous_, but you are welcome to it if you like


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

_Any way my trainer has suggested I kit myself out in nervous dog/ dog in training gear including a high viz vest for me so people can see we are trying rather than the head collar. So now I'm in a quandary_.

Couldn't you do both Hi-viz and head collar, at least you can be seen and you'll have more control over him.


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Reena goes on sit down strike now and again and refuses to budge. I found that when I came to the trigger spots or sensed som hesitation increasing my pace with a happy high pitched '_ come on then, quick quick quick !'_ worked a treat !


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Danny went blind quite recently, and I'm having to force myself to take him out in daylight more often while he's adjusting. 
Now that he has his "blind dog" labels, and a lead cover, I've noticed a huge improvement in other dog walkers reactions.

I never thought that kind of thing helped, but it's been brilliant so far 

You've probably already seen it, but if not, https://neondog.co.uk/gb/


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

If your not at risk of losing Loki when he kicks off then honestly I agree with your trainer.
My experience with head collars and big dogs is that they can increase the reaction due to feeling more restrained. Thai will happily pop his nose in a head collar and happily wear one on a walk, but when he did react, it was a much bigger "explosion" than if he wasn't wearing one...interestingly his muzzle doesn't change his behaviour in that respect.

I honestly think I would start to put a collar on Loki and condition him to collar grabs, then when he kicks off you can grab his collar giving you a bit more control.
It's up to you obviously as you are the one walking him, so if you would feel happier with him wearing a head collar then that is your choice...just thought I'd back your trainer a little


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Just some thinking out loud here, not any specific advice 

Your mental state is as important as Loki's (if not more so). If a head halter offers you peace of mind, don't beat yourself up about using it. 
I don't think you will, but don't get too excited yet about the head halter because as @StormyThai says, it can make reactivity worse when it does kick off. It may not, and it may work great for you, but it may also not work, and you don't need additional discouragements 

Were you able to sneak a leash-wrap in when you saw the lab? Because you can use that to help with lunging too, not just to help get him moving.

I can't remember if this has been mentioned before, but being a boxer, and knowing how much boxers love muzzle punching things, I bet he would love a sustained hand touch cue. 
I know you're working on focus/engagement, add in some hand touches to your engagement fun activities. At home see if you can build duration. Eventually you should have a behavior that he really enjoys doing, so there's a positive emotional response simply performing the behavior, and you can use that hand touch to 'lead' him away from things.

Basically, when another dog appears, you ask for a hand touch and just keep your hand in front of his face (ideally he's also pushing his nose in to your hand). This does several things. You partially block his vision so there's not the intense staring at the other dog. He's doing a behavior that has a positive emotional response with it, so he feels a little better. And your hand leading him gives you more control over his head.

But really @Boxer123 he *will* grow up. Everything that you're doing is going to come together eventually and you're both going to be just fine. I know I sound like a broken record, but I've known so many idiot boxer boys that were just complete aszholes until they weren't. 
For sure keep working on things, keep teaching him that this is how we behave and we don't behave this way. Try really hard not to let him rile you up, and just keep on keeping on. I know it's so hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel when you keep having incident after incident, but try to objectively look back and see how far you both have come.

And know that this PITA dog is probably going to be "the" dog for you. We all have one. The one dog that taught us so much that every other dog after him benefits from your knowledge, confidence, and giant tool-box of tricks that you never would have learned had it not been for that one dog who put you through hell and back. 
One day he's going to be an old man and you're going to be walking him and he's going to be so steady and dependable and you guys just understand each other with a look, and someone will say what a wonderful dog you have there, what a great connection you two have, and you're going to laugh inside remembering what he put you through, but agree, that indeed he is a truly wonderful dog


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

O2.0 said:


> One day he's going to be an old man and you're going to be walking him and he's going to be so steady and dependable and you guys just understand each other with a look, and someone will say what a wonderful dog you have there, what a great connection you two have, and you're going to laugh inside remembering what he put you through, but agree, that indeed he is a truly wonderful dog


This!!! I could go on & on about the problems I had with Roxy (& probably did on here years ago!). I was so out of my depth & she had some worrying behaviour but we worked in them. Sometimes I felt we would never get there. It seemed as if everyone else had a 'nice' dog & I had an out of control, horrible one. But there was no magic fix, it took time but gradually I learnt to accept her ways, manage them alot better, not worry what others thought & things changed.

A couple of years ago Roxy & I were out walking with my friend & her dog (also previously an @rse) & were were laughing at how they were now the sensible oldies & how we actually used them for training with other people who needed help around other dogs ..... unbelievable!


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

StormyThai said:


> If your not at risk of losing Loki when he kicks off then honestly I agree with your trainer.
> My experience with head collars and big dogs is that they can increase the reaction due to feeling more restrained. Thai will happily pop his nose in a head collar and happily wear one on a walk, *but when he did react, it was a much bigger "explosion" than if he wasn't wearing one...interestingly his muzzle doesn't change his behaviour in that respect.*


I found out that with Dogmatic head collar as it having a loop under the chin I could slip my hand into it and hold it and pull Dillon's head close into my upper leg and have complete control over him and give him a few treats for been a good boy. Also I found I could get him to listen me.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Cleo38 said:


> This!!! I could go on & on about the problems I had with Roxy (& probably did on here years ago!). I was so out of my depth & she had some worrying behaviour but we worked in them. Sometimes I felt we would never get there. It seemed as if everyone else had a 'nice' dog & I had an out of control, horrible one. But there was no magic fix, it took time but gradually I learnt to accept her ways, manage them alot better, not worry what others thought & things changed.
> 
> A couple of years ago Roxy & I were out walking with my friend & her dog (also previously an @rse) & were were laughing at how they were now the sensible oldies & how we actually used them for training with other people who needed help around other dogs ..... unbelievable!


Aw... Roxy... :Kiss


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

@StormyThai in all of this I've never once thought of using a collar as well this is a good idea. This was her concern he would react more. No I've never been at risk of loosing him I have a surprising amount of strength after years of wrangling boxers.

@O2.0 and @Cleo38 your posts bought a little tear to my eye. I always tell people loki is the love and bane of my life in equal measure I never want him to lose his nutty ness. I just want him to be happy and to be able to take him more places to explore together would be lovely. Sox was very easy to train in fact I did nothing for recall he just recalled! Even when he went through his reactive douche stage he had great focus on me so 'watch me ' worked well.


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Hi Viz clothing is one of Dan's triggers. It's the binmen, postmen and roadworks, cyclists or indeed any random person passing wearing reflective clothes. (especially if they're moving fast)


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

DanWalkersmum said:


> Hi Viz clothing is one of Dan's triggers. It's the binmen, postmen and roadworks, cyclists or indeed any random person passing wearing reflective clothes. (especially if they're moving fast)


Funny isn't it what sets them off. Loki doesn't mind what they are wearing although he does hate the postman with a passion.


----------



## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Boxer123 said:


> @StormyThai in all of this I've never once thought of using a collar as well this is a good idea. This was her concern he would react more. No I've never been at risk of loosing him I have a surprising amount of strength after years of wrangling boxers.


I use collar grabs with Ted. It works well and doesn't make him any more reactive but have much more control. I think I tried to explain it but quite badly before :Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

DanWalkersmum said:


> Hi Viz clothing is one of Dan's triggers. It's the binmen, postmen and roadworks, cyclists or indeed any random person passing wearing reflective clothes. (especially if they're moving fast)


I'd forgotten that, the community police use to wear them and it always set Dillon off day or night he hated them, same as dogs wearing hi-viz collars use to drive him loopy.


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Really good to hear you've had some positive walks with Loki, sounds like you have a good plan in place - I think things start to feel a lot better once you have a plan. Boxers are both very lucky to have you looking after them . It can be really tiring having to be so aware and alert all the time and I think we humans can suffer from trigger stacking too. I do have some lovely calm walks with Bodmin, but under certain circumstances, i.e. really early or late, someone quiet, etc.

I completely understand the feeling of embarrassment when you've got a dog growling and lunging at the end of the lead, it doesn't feel good. I too worry about how Bodmin looks to others and that they may report him. He wears a hi-viz 'I need space' vest, it does make _me_ feel better when he's wearing it. I also muzzle trained him and always take it out with me, I have no real fear of him biting anyone/anything, did it more so others could see I was taking responsibility for his behaviour. It also helps keep people away . He doesn't often wear it these days, I just carry it round like a security blanket! It makes me sad to think that people may look at him and think he's a horrible aggressive dog, when he's actually the biggest softie dog I know - he just finds some things hard to cope with.



Cleo38 said:


> This!!! I could go on & on about the problems I had with Roxy (& probably did on here years ago!). I was so out of my depth & she had some worrying behaviour but we worked in them. Sometimes I felt we would never get there. It seemed as if everyone else had a 'nice' dog & I had an out of control, horrible one. But there was no magic fix, it took time but gradually I learnt to accept her ways, manage them alot better, not worry what others thought & things changed.
> 
> A couple of years ago Roxy & I were out walking with my friend & her dog (also previously an @rse) & were were laughing at how they were now the sensible oldies & how we actually used them for training with other people who needed help around other dogs ..... unbelievable!


So great to hear such a positive story. I often wonder what would be like to have a 'nice', 'normal' dog, maybe I'll find out one day . I wouldn't change Bodmin for the world, he's beautiful, but also a d***.



DanWalkersmum said:


> Hi Viz clothing is one of Dan's triggers. It's the binmen, postmen and roadworks, cyclists or indeed any random person passing wearing reflective clothes. (especially if they're moving fast)


Bodmin's not keen on hi-viz either, cyclist in hi-ziv with lights on are his worst trigger. He once, somehow, ended up on his back, after lunging at 2 such cyclists. They'd come round the corner, so I barely had time to get the cheese out when he started, all I could do was hold tight and he flipped himself over. It did stop him reacting though, as he had to focus on getting on his feet, by which time I'd got the cheese ready. Wouldn't recommend it as a training technique though .


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

LittleMow said:


> Really good to hear you've had some positive walks with Loki, sounds like you have a good plan in place - I think things start to feel a lot better once you have a plan. Boxers are both very lucky to have you looking after them . It can be really tiring having to be so aware and alert all the time and I think we humans can suffer from trigger stacking too. I do have some lovely calm walks with Bodmin, but under certain circumstances, i.e. really early or late, someone quiet, etc.
> 
> I completely understand the feeling of embarrassment when you've got a dog growling and lunging at the end of the lead, it doesn't feel good. I too worry about how Bodmin looks to others and that they may report him. He wears a hi-viz 'I need space' vest, it does make _me_ feel better when he's wearing it. I also muzzle trained him and always take it out with me, I have no real fear of him biting anyone/anything, did it more so others could see I was taking responsibility for his behaviour. It also helps keep people away . He doesn't often wear it these days, I just carry it round like a security blanket! It makes me sad to think that people may look at him and think he's a horrible aggressive dog, when he's actually the biggest softie dog I know - he just finds some things hard to cope with.
> 
> ...


Where did you get your vest ? The problem with winter is we can't go out early because Loki gets more reactive in the dark in the summer I'm out at 5am it's lovely far more relaxing.


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Bodmin's not keen on hi-viz either, cyclist in hi-ziv with lights on are his worst trigger. He once, somehow, ended up on his back, after lunging at 2 such cyclists. They'd come round the corner, so I barely had time to get the cheese out when he started, all I could do was hold tight and he flipped himself over. It did stop him reacting though, as he had to focus on getting on his feet, by which time I'd got the cheese ready. Wouldn't recommend it as a training technique though .

It must be something to do with the way the light hits it that triggers them? 
Looking forward to the early lighter mornings and evenings so that we can all get some quieter calm walks again.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I find that it really helps to CC/DS a dog to reflective gear so that when the dog sees them out and about they are less likely to over react.
I've even been known to follow one of the postmen so that when they pop out of a property cheese rains from the sky.


----------



## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

I wear a hi viz vest when I go on walks with Cadvan, and I did have to do a bit of CC/DS when I first got him in amongst the general new home stuff, but now he thinks hi viz is the bees knees. Most of my walks are on my own, rurally. And if I were ever to have an accident and need rescuing by someone, them being easily able to spot me is gonna really help. I picked mine up very cheaply from ebay.

It definitely helps that I wear it too, so it's not just people he might react to walking past who may have it on. It's too normalised as a thing.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Had a lovely walk with Loki today at lunch over an hour in the woods. Lots of sniffing. I dropped turkey when he wasn’t looking then pointed it out. We met a man with a little jack Russell Loki was very happy with this no issues.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)




----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

StormyThai said:


> I find that it really helps to CC/DS a dog to reflective gear so that when the dog sees them out and about they are less likely to over react.
> I've even been known to follow one of the postmen so that when they pop out of a property cheese rains from the sky.





Torin. said:


> I wear a hi viz vest when I go on walks with Cadvan, and I did have to do a bit of CC/DS when I first got him in amongst the general new home stuff, but now he thinks hi viz is the bees knees. Most of my walks are on my own, rurally. And if I were ever to have an accident and need rescuing by someone, them being easily able to spot me is gonna really help. I picked mine up very cheaply from ebay.
> 
> It definitely helps that I wear it too, so it's not just people he might react to walking past who may have it on. It's too normalised as a thing.


That's interesting, I think my OH has one somewhere from when he was at work, will have to have a look for it and explore how he reacts by leaving it for him to sniff.


----------



## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

DanWalkersmum said:


> That's interesting, I think my OH has one somewhere from when he was at work, will have to have a look for it and explore how he reacts by leaving it for him to sniff.


I don't think it's so much that reflective things are distressing in their own right, but unless they've spent a lot of time around other safety conscious people, it's likely that they'll have mostly come across hi viz when there's being roadworks and the like? So it becomes a signifier that there's going to be weird smells and/or loud scary noises at random.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Torin. said:


> I don't think it's so much that reflective things are distressing in their own right, but unless they've spent a lot of time around other safety conscious people, it's likely that they'll have mostly come across hi viz when there's being roadworks and the like? So it becomes a signifier that there's going to be weird smells and/or loud scary noises at random.


Blimey, you all must live in a different world to me. Lots of dogs have hi viz coats and every other person wears one.


----------



## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

Blitz said:


> Blimey, you all must live in a different world to me. Lots of dogs have hi viz coats and every other person wears one.


Around here me and Cad are basically the only dogwalkers who wear hi viz. We met one other person in the village once and it was such a big thing that we both pointed at each other and basically went "snap!". Sometimes the odd dog will have a light on a collar, but they're usually fairly naff ones that won't even shine through long grass.

I really wish more people would wear them, especially with covid need for distancing, and more people out at night compared to other years!

What's the Orkney secret?


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Torin. said:


> I don't think it's so much that reflective things are distressing in their own right, but unless they've spent a lot of time around other safety conscious people, it's likely that they'll have mostly come across hi viz when there's being roadworks and the like? So it becomes a signifier that there's going to be weird smells and/or loud scary noises at random.


Georgina my Peigirl was terrified of men wearing anything white. I'm pretty sure she associated white with the vet as they all wore white coats. And the vet meant she was going to be poked and prodded and generally have an unpleasant experience. Took her years to get over.


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Torin. said:


> I don't think it's so much that reflective things are distressing in their own right, but unless they've spent a lot of time around other safety conscious people, it's likely that they'll have mostly come across hi viz when there's being roadworks and the like? So it becomes a signifier that there's going to be weird smells and/or loud scary noises at random.


could be a factor?


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Blitz said:


> Blimey, you all must live in a different world to me. Lots of dogs have hi viz coats and every other person wears one.


it's a good job we don't live near you then


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Torin. said:


> Around here me and Cad are basically the only dogwalkers who wear hi viz. We met one other person in the village once and it was such a big thing that we both pointed at each other and basically went "snap!". Sometimes the odd dog will have a light on a collar, but they're usually fairly naff ones that won't even shine through long grass.
> 
> I really wish more people would wear them, especially with covid need for distancing, and more people out at night compared to other years!
> 
> What's the Orkney secret?


common sense maybe plus a lot of farmers and horse owners.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Blitz said:


> Blimey, you all must live in a different world to me. Lots of dogs have hi viz coats and every other person wears one.


It's mostly delivery drivers, work men or the postie that wear Hi-Viz around here. I've seen a couple of dogs that were over aroused by deliveries then go on to react to anyone wearing a Hi-Viz.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Blitz said:


> Blimey, you all must live in a different world to me. Lots of dogs have hi viz coats and every other person wears one.












Be good if it keeps PITA dogs at bay


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Boxer123 said:


> Where did you get your vest ? The problem with winter is we can't go out early because Loki gets more reactive in the dark in the summer I'm out at 5am it's lovely far more relaxing.


Got it from here, https://www.yellowdoguk.co.uk/store/.

Bodmin is definitely more reactive in the dark, does make things tricky when trying to plan walks. We drive somewhere quiet in the evenings atm, doesn't always go to plan, but he's starting to relax more and just sniff around instead of scanning horizon.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Zooplus also do hi viz coats for dogs that are not expensive. I bought them for the boys but they were too big so gave them to our trainer for his dogs.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs...lytics-id=6m1fgbkwnn0h-17zRfCHW7KHATE9x8PE849


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

LittleMow said:


> Got it from here, https://www.yellowdoguk.co.uk/store/.
> 
> Bodmin is definitely more reactive in the dark, does make things tricky when trying to plan walks. We drive somewhere quiet in the evenings atm, doesn't always go to plan, but he's starting to relax more and just sniff around instead of scanning horizon.


What a fab website will be ordering everything!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Well we've had a fab day ! We have a short walk in the morning normally don't see anyone. Today we saw one of the labs he doesn't like. I stopped to do some training however they turned around so walked back towards us. We were in a wide field and I was able to move Loki out to the side. We managed a bit of distance and yes he growled and grumbled but not a massive kick off at all 

This afternoon I took him for a run on a route I used to do with lily. It runs through a village so we saw a few people including a man walking behind us (Loki pet peeve) no reaction at all. Really proud of him today.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Thank goodness for posters like you @Boxer123 and threads like this. :Kiss

I go through phases where logging on here can cause more stress than anything positive. Between the ridiculous "cause of covid my dooleschnoos bred and I'm selling them for thousands" threads in the breeding forums, or more innocent posts asking for help (or saying they're going to breed their rescue GSD with temperament issues) and you take the time to write a thoughtful response only to have them disappear, or just weird threads like that dogs don't feel love that leave me going , sometimes it feels like what's the point.

But then I hear about Loki's progress and I can 'hear' the relief in your voice writing this and it makes it absolutely worth logging on if it's only to check and see how you're doing 

So thanks!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Thank goodness for posters like you @Boxer123 and threads like this. :Kiss
> 
> I go through phases where logging on here can cause more stress than anything positive. Between the ridiculous "cause of covid my dooleschnoos bred and I'm selling them for thousands" threads in the breeding forums, or more innocent posts asking for help (or saying they're going to breed their rescue GSD with temperament issues) and you take the time to write a thoughtful response only to have them disappear, or just weird threads like that dogs don't feel love that leave me going , sometimes it feels like what's the point.
> 
> ...


It is frustrating when you write a long reply and the OP never comes back!

I'm so grateful for all the advice I've had its really helped. Just being able to move my dog. We are working on the touch command and let's go at home and in the private field. I'm hoping that will start to translate to walks.

He's had a good week we have met people and dogs and no reaction just some silliness. He has a bit of a love affair going with a little jack Russell.

Unfortunately another man with black lab has appeared in the village so that's two to avoid.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Unfortunately another man with black lab has appeared in the village so that's two to avoid.


You would think labs and boxers would like each other since they both can be so similar in their oafishness! But yeah Bates hated pretty much all labs and boxers at that age. And aussies, and herding breeds in general... Oh what am I saying, he was a jerkface dog. But look at him now  Only took 10 years LOL


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> You would think labs and boxers would like each other since they both can be so similar in their oafishness! But yeah Bates hated pretty much all labs and boxers at that age. And aussies, and herding breeds in general... Oh what am I saying, he was a jerkface dog. But look at him now  Only took 10 years LOL


Yep you would have thought but Loki seems scared of anything his size which is ridiculous. His favourite friends are spaniels and terriers.


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Yay! Go Loki, go Loki 

So relieved when I opened this thread, to read the words 'we've had a fab day', really lovely, so pleased for you both


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

LittleMow said:


> Yay! Go Loki, go Loki
> 
> So relieved when I opened this thread, to read the words 'we've had a fab day', really lovely, so pleased for you both


Thank you he's had a pretty good week trying to pull it back in time for Christmas.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Boxer123 said:


> Thank you he's had a pretty good week trying to pull it back in time for Christmas.


Of course his good behaviour has nothing to do with all your training. Quite obvious to me the thought that Santa won't bring him any presents is the only reason he's being good for the time being


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Magyarmum said:


> Of course his good behaviour has nothing to do with all your training. Quite obvious to me the thought that Santa won't bring him any presents is the only reason he's being good for the time being


Wondering if @Boxer123 could keep the good behaviour coming after Christmas, using threat of no Easter Bunny?

I'm pretty sure Bodmin would jump through a few hoops for a shot at the Easter Bunny


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

LittleMow said:


> Wondering if @Boxer123 could keep the good behaviour coming after Christmas, using threat of no Easter Bunny?
> 
> I'm pretty sure Bodmin would jump through a few hoops for a shot at the Easter Bunny


A giant bunny would get a royal telling off from Loki !


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Well at the risk of boring everyone we have had more success. Bumped into same lab as the other morning (different route are they following us ?) I have his nervous lead wrapped around me so I clip it on the front if we see a trigger.

Clipped this on and side walked him out the way. Once we had gone as far as we could to let them past I popped him between my legs for a squeeze (I think @Lurcherlad suggested this). He had a grumble and whine but no big explosions.

I think we're Ive gone wrong in the past is giving up to early on moving him and pausing to apologise now I just completely focus on Loki.

We then moved on no issues and bumped into two labradoodle brothers Loki likes these two said hello nice and relaxed off we went.


----------



## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Wonderful news, @Boxer123


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Well done Loki....


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Boxer123 said:


> A giant bunny would get a royal telling off from Loki !


Did you see the footage of the giant rabbit on Have I Got News for You on Friday? Scary ...


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Good news 

I think many owners make the mistake of focusing on the passerby/other dog in an effort to maybe apologise or "ignore" the fracas but I do think it's better to ignore _them _and focus on calming/controlling/training your dog.

That way you stand a chance of avoiding the over threshold situation where nothing (apart from just hanging on for dear life) can really work ime.


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

This is brilliant, well done both of you 

Working on a 'through' with a squeeze with Bodmin, haven't tried it when there's a trigger yet though. Really good point you make about focusing on Loki, rather than apologising. It can all happen so quickly, a precious few seconds can sometimes make the difference between a full blown meltdown and a slight grumble with Bodmin. Bringing everything together in the heat of the moment ain't always easy!

Really good to hear about your successes, gives me some hope


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

DanWalkersmum said:


> Hi Viz clothing is one of Dan's triggers. It's the binmen, postmen and roadworks, cyclists or indeed any random person passing wearing reflective clothes. (especially if they're moving fast)


Try wearing a high viz jacket around the house, until it becomes no big deal.


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

Lurcherlad said:


> Good news
> 
> I think many owners make the mistake of focusing on the passerby/other dog in an effort to maybe apologise or "ignore" the fracas but I do think it's better to ignore them and focus on calming/controlling/training your dog.
> 
> That way you stand a chance of avoiding the over threshold situation where nothing (apart from just hanging on for dear life) can really work ime.


Exactly this. Certainly something I've been guilty of, most of the time, when I have apologised, I either get completely ignored or they hang around to watch the side show (not very helpful!).


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

LittleMow said:


> Exactly this. Certainly something I've been guilty of, most of the time, when I have apologised, I either get completely ignored or they hang around to watch the side show (not very helpful!).


Very true! I'll certainly try to concentrate on Dan more and ignore the OP.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Well at the risk of boring everyone we have had more success. Bumped into same lab as the other morning (different route are they following us ?) I have his nervous lead wrapped around me so I clip it on the front if we see a trigger.
> 
> Clipped this on and side walked him out the way. Once we had gone as far as we could to let them past I popped him between my legs for a squeeze (I think @Lurcherlad suggested this). He had a grumble and whine but no big explosions.
> 
> ...


YAY!!! Success is never boring to hear about. Wonderful!

@StormyThai has a video somewhere of training a dog to go between your legs as part of helping with reactivity. I wonder if you should add that to Loki's repertoire?


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> @StormyThai has a video somewhere of training a dog to go between your legs as part of helping with reactivity. I wonder if you should add that to Loki's repertoire?


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Success is never boring. It's brilliant to see.

Well done to you both.


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Success stories are always good to hear, it helps you feel good about it, which in future will give you more confidence, and it helps others by showing them that they can get past these struggles with their dogs!

Sometimes we just need a chat with people who have different ideas and perspectives to help get past the roadblock in our own head.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

DanWalkersmum said:


> Very true! I'll certainly try to concentrate on Dan more and ignore the OP.


This is key for me I spent so much time apologising I took focus of Loki this morning I just ignored the person and dog, same the other day. There was nothing to apologise for today we gave space , he didn't bark.

Thank you for the video @StormyThai it definitely calms him having him there.


----------



## pinklizzy (Dec 19, 2009)

Not training related at all but this morning at work I got totally flattened by boxer kisses-as in fallen over, visor knocked off and mask licked We don't see many boxers but this pair were just so happy with life that it made me think of you!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

pinklizzy said:


> Not training related at all but this morning at work I got totally flattened by boxer kisses-as in fallen over, visor knocked off and mask licked We don't see many boxers but this pair were just so happy with life that it made me think of you!


Yes you need to be prepared for boxer love ! Social distancing isn't in their vocabulary.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sarah H said:


> Success stories are always good to hear, it helps you feel good about it, which in future will give you more confidence, and it helps others by showing them that they can get past these struggles with their dogs!
> 
> Sometimes we just need a chat with people who have different ideas and perspectives to help get past the roadblock in our own head.


I feel so much more confident and am enjoying our walks together more. You lot are great and should start charging for advice.


----------



## pinklizzy (Dec 19, 2009)

Boxer123 said:


> Yes you need to be prepared for boxer love ! Social distancing isn't in their vocabulary.


It was definitely a good way to start the day!


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Boxer123 said:


> This is key for me I spent so much time apologising I took focus of Loki this morning I just ignored the person and dog, same the other day. There was nothing to apologise for today we gave space , he didn't bark.
> 
> Thank you for the video @StormyThai it definitely calms him having him there.


I'm so happy that you have found a key to turn the situation round for you. 
Sometimes it just needs another person to point you in another direction. I love this forum for all the positive advice given (for free!) by people who have experience and knowledge of dogs. Also the little training videos and pics (love them). Very much appreciated, thank you for helping a novice like me to make sense of my little four legged friend.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

My car has broken down so I had to walk loki down the road today the horror ! Saw another dog popped him between my legs and I sing to him (I think @mrs phas suggested this). He quite likes Beautiful South don't marry her. He looks at me when I sing rather than the other dog. Anyway no reaction normally I'm nearly pulled in front of a lorry.

On another note I managed to have the shoe on the other foot today a man with a Dashaund passed me and Sox it was lunging and barking so we waited for them to go before coming out of a footpath got sox in a sit and watch me. It is so nice to be walking the well behaved dog for a change.


----------



## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

Boxer123 said:


> My car has broken down so I had to walk loki down the road today the horror ! Saw another dog popped him between my legs and I sing to him (I think @mrs phas suggested this). He quite likes Beautiful South don't marry her. He looks at me when I sing rather than the other dog. Anyway no reaction normally I'm nearly pulled in front of a lorry.
> 
> On another note I managed to have the shoe on the other foot today a man with a Dashaund passed me and Sox it was lunging and barking so we waited for them to go before coming out of a footpath got sox in a sit and watch me. It is so nice to be walking the well behaved dog for a change.


Good boys! Well done, and long may the good behaviour continue.  I have a picture in my head of you singing to Loki and him looking adoringly at you whilst random dogs go past - brilliant if it works, just brilliant!:Joyful


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Loki's real fur tug has arrived for walks he loves it. I hope it gets his attention when out. He had a real test today bumped into the spaniel that had a pop at him once. Loki moves right out to the side so we had a good 10m between us. I popped him between my legs and he looked up at me. He whined and grumbled but didn't go off.


----------



## LittleMow (May 2, 2019)

That's great, so good to hear. Bodmin's getting a fur tug just after Christmas, think he'll love it


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

LittleMow said:


> That's great, so good to hear. Bodmin's getting a fur tug just after Christmas, think he'll love her it


Loki has carried it around all evening it squeaks as well.


----------



## MissKittyKat (Jan 23, 2016)

Boxer123 said:


> View attachment 457678
> Loki's real fur tug has arrived for walks he loves it. I hope it gets his attention when out. He had a real test today bumped into the spaniel that had a pop at him once. Loki moves right out to the side so we had a good 10m between us. I popped him between my legs and he looked up at me. He whined and grumbled but didn't go off.


Where did you get the fur rug from? Looks great.

Woody has eaten his bunny toy tonight!


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

We LOVE real fur and sheepskin tugs! Fab for really building value in playing games, I use it a lot as recall reward as a bit of food doesn't always cut it if there are some super distracting things around.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MissKittyKat said:


> Where did you get the fur rug from? Looks great.
> 
> Woody has eaten his bunny toy tonight![/)
> 
> ...


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sarah H said:


> We LOVE real fur and sheepskin tugs! Fab for really building value in playing games, I use it a lot as recall reward as a bit of food doesn't always cut it if there are some super distracting things around.


Loki isn't really to interested in food which makes life difficult but loves his toys so hopefully this will motivate him.


----------



## MissKittyKat (Jan 23, 2016)

Thanks.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MissKittyKat said:


> Thanks.


An extra Xmas present for Woody. Loki fell asleep with his last night.


----------



## MissKittyKat (Jan 23, 2016)

Boxer123 said:


> An extra Xmas present for Woody. Loki fell asleep with his last night.


I think so x 
Our post is so terrible at the moment though, it won't arrive in time


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Been out for a walk with his tug Loki was very happy. He played the whole way. It got wet and looked like I was dragging a dead rat around but fun was had.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Well we had an Xmas miracle today a six mile run and Loki didn’t take umbrage to anyone. One lady thought he was a puppy he was looking quite friendly and chilled. Having him between my legs is helping so much. 

I’ve been taking his tug for when he randomly refuses to move and that works well he loves it. We play with it and he finds it far more rewarding than his ball.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Wonderful news! Good work Loki, and awesome perseverance mom!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> Wonderful news! Good work Loki, and awesome perseverance mom!


He is doing very well still a massive doofus.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> He is doing very well still a massive doofus.


He will _always_ be a massive doofus


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Boxer123 said:


> He is doing very well still a massive doofus.


If he wasn't a doofus he wouldn't be Loki


----------



## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Well done Loki!!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> He will _always_ be a massive doofus





Sarah H said:


> If he wasn't a doofus he wouldn't be Loki


This is very true I'd be lost without him.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

It's wobbler time !


----------



## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Clever boy Loki.


----------



## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

Well done gorgeous Loki!!x


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Well done Loki..


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Loki had a great walk today met a Jack Russell puppy and was so gentle and kind. 

Christmas walks however not great. My sister was here so we all went together what I’m noticing is that Loki is much worse reactive wise when Sox is there. Sox isn’t doing anything just bumbling along. Why would this be ? Is there anything we can do ?


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Boxer123 said:


> Loki had a great walk today met a Jack Russell puppy and was so gentle and kind.
> 
> Christmas walks however not great. My sister was here so we all went together what I'm noticing is that Loki is much worse reactive wise when Sox is there. Sox isn't doing anything just bumbling along. Why would this be ? Is there anything we can do ?


I think all the excitement of being with his family, and walking with Sox is probably the reason. His arousal is increased and he's not good and can't use his brain properly when he's a bit over-excited!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sarah H said:


> I think all the excitement of being with his family, and walking with Sox is probably the reason. His arousal is increased and he's not good and can't use his brain properly when he's a bit over-excited!


That's my feeling it's such a shame my sister only ever sees him wild I've spent months telling her how well he's doing.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Boxer123 said:


> Loki had a great walk today met a Jack Russell puppy and was so gentle and kind.
> which
> Christmas walks however not great. My sister was here so we all went together what I'm noticing is that Loki is much worse reactive wise when Sox is there. Sox isn't doing anything just bumbling along. Why would this be ? Is there anything we can do ?


I find that when I walk Grisha and Gwylim separately they're both well behaved and we really enjoy the walk. Walk them together though and they can be really hard work as Grisha wants to do his own thing. Gwylim who must be one of the easiest dogs in the world to walk, reacts usually by sitting down or standing and refusing to move. I never had this problem with Georgina and Gwylim because they were so well co-ordinated and enjoyed doing the same things.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Magyarmum said:


> I find that when I walk Grisha and Gwylim separately they're both well behaved and we really enjoy the walk. Walk them together though and they can be really hard work as Grisha wants to do his own thing. Gwylim who must be one of the easiest dogs in the world to walk, reacts usually by sitting down or standing and refusing to move. I never had this problem with Georgina and Gwylim because they were so well co-ordinated and enjoyed doing the same things.


Must be douche mentality.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Boxer123 said:


> Must be douche mentality.[/QUOTE
> 
> I've reached the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that it's because their MO's are so different. On a walk, Gwylim is very decisive and methodical in his sniffing and investigations whereas Grisha flits all over the place and thinks nothing of pushing into Gwylim's space and disrupts what he's doing..
> 
> So different from Georgina who was quite happy to work alongside her little brother.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sox is ok if I have another pair of hands but if they are together closely can snap if loki is kicking off. Loki is just over the top reactive when out with Sox.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I feel for you, I was lucky only having to walk one dog, I just couldn't walk another dog when Dillon was young he was a nightmare, at times almost hated him when I was battling with him when a another dog came in sight, but he did quieten down all of a sudden as if something had been turn on in his brain, he almost changed into a different dog over night.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Christmas walks however not great. My sister was here so we all went together what I'm noticing is that Loki is much worse reactive wise when Sox is there. Sox isn't doing anything just bumbling along. Why would this be ? Is there anything we can do ?


I have a friend/coworker who I canNOT sit with in serious meetings. We're bad influences on each other! Sometimes I just look at her and we crack up inappropriately. Other friends I can be more serious with, or others make me anxious for no real reason.

We used to have two great danes, Bates was fine with one or the other, but the combination of all three of them was a nightmare. One of them would lose their mind over something, the other two would follow suit and all hell would break loose. Dogs man, they sure can be idiots!

Sox is a little bit of an anxious boy isn't he? Or at least not overly confident? It may just be that Loki feeds off that with Sox. Or he's just feeding off the excitement of not just one of his favorite beings, but TWO of them out on a walk together!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I have a friend/coworker who I canNOT sit with in serious meetings. We're bad influences on each other! Sometimes I just look at her and we crack up inappropriately. Other friends I can be more serious with, or others make me anxious for no real reason.
> 
> We used to have two great danes, Bates was fine with one or the other, but the combination of all three of them was a nightmare. One of them would lose their mind over something, the other two would follow suit and all hell would break loose. Dogs man, they sure can be idiots!
> 
> Sox is a little bit of an anxious boy isn't he? Or at least not overly confident? It may just be that Loki feeds off that with Sox. Or he's just feeding off the excitement of not just one of his favorite beings, but TWO of them out on a walk together!


Loki is definitely that ridiculous friend who doesn't take life seriously. Sox used to be quite nervous but has come on so much since we moved and now his body language is very relaxed and happy. In the end if we saw another dog Sox carried on whilst I dealt with Loki.

It's just difficult because I am on my own I want to be able to do day trips with the boys we have big plans once Covid bogs off . Loki is doing very well on his own.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> It's just difficult because I am on my own I want to be able to do day trips with the boys we have big plans once Covid bogs off . Loki is doing very well on his own.


He'll get there, they all do eventually


----------

