# Protective daddy cat?



## Sarahbellachino (Feb 27, 2014)

My British short hair is pregnant by my other cat this was planned and he is now being neutered, but he has become very protective of her he follows her around making some odd noises and is always laying with her and sniffing her is this normal and she keeps getting annoyed with him.... He is quite it is quite sweet to see but just wanted to check this was ok?


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Not sure if he would know that she is actually pregnant just thought I'd mention that it's best to keep him separate from mamma cat and babies as soon as they are here.. Even a week before she's due maybe separate them in case she goes into labour and your not around x


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Since she's annoyed I'd separate them, expectant mums don't need added stress

Also, he'll still be fertile for up to 8 weeks after neutering so be sure to keep them apart, she can get pregnant again shortly after birthing.

Hopefully you've done the required tests on the cats before breeding.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Oh dear why oh why...


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> Oh dear why oh why...


A problem easily solved by breeders early neutering pets. BSH seem so common with unreg/byb's


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

True ... British are the most registered cat in the UK so a very common cat 

That girl is not very british looking at all so would surprise me if it has come for a british breeder


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

So is the dad the seal point? You do know that the odds are that all the kittens will be black?


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Oh dear.Com .......


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Have they both been blood grouped? She doesn't look lie a British she doesn't have the correct eye colour? Why does she have a collar on, does she go outside? 

I would neuter and separate, she maybe coming back into call, ID still neuter!


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## Sarahbellachino (Feb 27, 2014)

Cosmills said:


> True ... British are the most registered cat in the UK so a very common cat
> 
> That girl is not very british looking at all so would surprise me if it has come for a british breeder


Just for the record I have all her papers so she is british blue, also I am not a breeder I just am a pet owner, who allowed two of my cats to have kittens So thanks for the negative oh dear comments but i was just asking for advice, thought this was a forum for that not for negativity!


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## Sarahbellachino (Feb 27, 2014)

spotty cats said:


> A problem easily solved by breeders early neutering pets. BSH seem so common with unreg/


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

I for one wouldn't want to see moggies and cross-breeds wiped out. I do wonder sometimes if there's a breeders' cartel that aims for exclusively pedigree cats, as if hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection had created an inferior product.

Seems to me a lot of assumptions are being made here about the OP which a few kindly put questions could have set straight, instead of jumping to conclusions that may be right or may be wrong and offensive. Some of you are being incredibly rude and judgemental!

I don't know the answer to your question Sarahbellachino, about whether and when to separate them. I have heard of father cats being good with kittens, I'm sure most mothers would see off a boy they didn't want near the kittens, but then again it's been known for a father to kill kittens. Hopefully someone with some experience and a little will to be helpful might come along.

I was sent a link to this video some time ago, lovely piece of film you might enjoy


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Sarahbellachino said:


> Just for the record I have all her papers so she is british blue, also I am not a breeder I just am a pet owner, who allowed two of my cats to have kittens So thanks for the negative oh dear comments but i was just asking for advice, thought this was a forum for that not for negativity!


Breeding isn't simply putting cat A to cat B, BSH need health tests, and also blood typing.

Unless the papers you've got include her being registered on the active then she was sold as a pet, have you asked the breeder if you can breed from her? There could be any number of reasons she wasn't sold as a breeding cat - not meeting the standard or worse, genetic issues.



ForeverHome said:


> as if hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection had created an inferior product.


It has, every health issue found in pedigree cats is also in moggies. And no one is testing to breed these issues out for moggies.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Sarahbellachino said:


> Just for the record I have all her papers so she is british blue, also I am not a breeder I just am a pet owner, who allowed two of my cats to have kittens So thanks for the negative oh dear comments but i was just asking for advice, thought this was a forum for that not for negativity!


BSH need to be blood grouped before breeding. If you girl is a blood group B and your boy a blood group A all the kittens will die within a few days of birth - please google neonatal isoerythrolisis.

Foreverhome - I dont have a problem with crossbreeds or moggies - the problem with people breeding them is supply outweighs demands so many cats end up in shelters. Responsible pedigree cat breeders will always have their cats back at any age if the new owners no longer want them. 
The OP is probably expecting to see kittens the same colour as mum or dad - as has been pointed out the kittens will likely be all black, the most frequent colour left in shelters.


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## Sarahbellachino (Feb 27, 2014)

I don't care what colour the kittens are and they won't end up in shelters as I would never allow that to happen, I am a reponsible pet owner and have had cats since a young child, I actually brought sooty the BSH from a lady who kept her and brother in a cage in her home When she was six months old
She is very well cared for and has seen the vet regarding her pregnancy!

Thanks you all for your "CONCERN" But I don't recall asking for it all I asked for 
Was advice regarding the male father of the kittens, but it's good to know how judgemental people can be... Think I would rather sooty be with me than be brought by someone as a breeding machine and kept in a cage


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

ForeverHome said:


> I for one wouldn't want to see moggies and cross-breeds wiped out. I do wonder sometimes if there's a breeders' cartel that aims for exclusively pedigree cats, as if hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection had created an inferior product.
> 
> Seems to me a lot of assumptions are being made here about the OP which a few kindly put questions could have set straight, instead of jumping to conclusions that may be right or may be wrong and offensive. Some of you are being incredibly rude and judgemental!
> 
> ...


Many breeders are extremely helpful and encouraging of new breeders and happily dedicate a lot of time with help and advice. I agree it is wrong to make assumptions here; perhaps it would have been better to have asked (given that these cats are British Shorthairs) if they had been PKD tested, if they have been blood group tested and if both parents are registered on the active register which would mean that the original breeder(s) sold them with the specific knowledge that the new owner wanted to breed from them. If that is the case, nobody is better placed to give advice to the OP than the breeder(s) of these cats.

I'm sure the OP will tell us.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Sarahbellachino said:


> Just for the record I have all her papers so she is british blue, also I am not a breeder I just am a pet owner, who allowed two of my cats to have kittens So thanks for the negative oh dear comments but i was just asking for advice, thought this was a forum for that not for negativity!


If she is registered you should have her registration documents - this thread shows examples of the older & newer GCCF styles, she is young so would have the newer one:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/319625-genuine-papers.html

You should also have a pedigree with at least 3 generation - her parents, g-parents and gg-parents. Most reputable breeders supply 4- or 5-generation pedigrees.

If you don't have a registration document she may or may not be a BSH - people who don't register kittens often lie about what they really are, and/or make up pedigrees. Kittens from BSH x moggie are sold as BSH, often for almost as much as a registered pedigree despite not being 13 weeks old, not being vaccinated and often not wormed / flead.

It's not even as if registering is expensive though of course both mother and father have to be registered to register the kittens.

Sorry but too me she looks like a very pet quality BSH - her eyes are far too pale, they should be orange or copper, and her ears are far, far too large. There are some photos of good BSH on the GCCF's website:

The British Self Cat

Blood groups have been mentioned. This link explains why they matter in BSH:
Dr. Addie - Feline Blood Groups

And sorry, but in letting her get pregnant you have become a breeder. I hope that collar isn't because she goes out - if she does the father of some or all or the kittens could be whatever homed in on that interesting smelling female...


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

I've never heard of a moggie with breathing difficulties due to having evolved a nose that looks like it's been pushed back into its face, or legs so short it can't run or jump, or sensitive eyes, and these are actively bred for so please don't tell me you're trying to get rid of them if you breed these cats. 

By selecting for disease-free and desireable points, human-selected breeding has its down side. Are the heroic saviours of the cat species, rescuing it from the mess nature has made of them, aware of the term "hybrid vigour"? Just wondered, like.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

ForeverHome said:


> I've never heard of a moggie with breathing difficulties due to having evolved a nose that looks like it's been pushed back into its face, or legs so short it can't run or jump, or sensitive eyes


I agree, I personally don't like to see any animal selectively bred to such extremes. Is that better or worse, do we think, than condemning kittens to a slow, agonising death with neonatal isoerythrolysis because the parents weren't blood typed? Or the sure death sentence as a result of polycystic kidney disease?

Yes, it is wrong to assume that the OP hasn't tested for these things prior to mating. It's hopeful that the tests were done because, make no mistake, it isn't scaremongering over things that rarely occur - around 50% of (non blood group tested) matings between BSH's will put all the kittens at risk of NI. PKD is relatively common in the breed. And both are completely avoidable.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

ForeverHome said:


> I for one wouldn't want to see moggies and cross-breeds wiped out. I do wonder sometimes if there's a breeders' cartel that aims for exclusively pedigree cats, as if hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection had created an inferior product.
> 
> <snip>


No-one wants to wipe out moggies. There is also no breeder's cartel. What we do want wiped out are BYBs, be they selling alleged pedigree cats, or moggies.

A 'pedigree' cat should be a pedigree - registered, of known ancestry, bred from parents that have been health tested as appropriate. People selling 'pedigrees' which are crosses, which have bogus pedigrees and so on are commiting fraud. It wouldn't surprise me if that sort of fraud was commited on the OP.

There will always be rescues overflowing with moggies which is why so many PFers are against breeding except to produce registered, health tested, well-raised pedigree kittens.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Going back to the start of this thread.
I am not sure if a Male cat would know if he is going to be a Daddy or not. 
If she is not stressed with him being around her then why not.
Maybe soon though she might need her own special place. Peace and quiet.
Just a matter of seeing how she goes.
If like Human females we can get bit moody when the Hormones get going.
I also agree that some Breeders do just keep them in pens and for breeding and then they find homes for the retiring queens.
I don't like that wayOther breeders keep them in the house and treat them as we would our own cats.
I suppose we are all different.

I hope all goes well with Mum and her kittens x


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Sarahbellachino said:


> <snip>
> Think I would rather sooty be with me than be brought by someone as a *breeding machine and kept in a cage*


I hope that isn't what you saw were you got your cats.

I have two (registered pedigree) breeding queens, they live as pets in my house and go where they want, when they want. I also have an escape-proof back garden so they go out there as well via a cat flap in my back door, or when windows are open in the summer.

All the breeders I've visited keep their girls the same way with regard to the house - not all have a back garden they can go in.

The only cats I've seen who live in pens in the garden are stud cats, which is partly why having a stud is such hard work - they need a lot of company and entertainment. It's also why stud pants are used, so they can spend time in the house and attempted spraying is nipped in the bud.


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## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm not going to get into the wrongs or rights but here are my thoughts...

I think its best you take your cue from the mother. If hes annoying her too much keep them apart a little but I wouldn't totally separate unless the mothers body language dictates the need for that as it could lead to issues (jealousy/aggression) as they live in close proximity. And obviously keep a very close eye on things once the kittens arrive.

Hope everything goes ok and they all find loving forever homes.

My mum had a moggie (decades ago when neutering wasnt that common) got pregnant by a passing stray tom. He barely left her side after mating (I presume to ensure no other males could get to her) and helped raise the kittens. He absolutely doted on them doing everything except provide milk (he did let them suckle on him!) The mother cat did object to his presence on occasions while pregnant and he would back off but she was calling like a queen in heat when in labour until he joined her in the birthing area (she point blank refused a box and had them on the back of the settee!) Once the kittens were weaned both parents were neutered and were inseparable, a real bonded pair. Fairly unusual to have such a paws on daddy cat but it can happen.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> I've never heard of a moggie with breathing difficulties due to having evolved a nose that looks like it's been pushed back into its face, or legs so short it can't run or jump, or sensitive eyes, and these are actively bred for so please don't tell me you're trying to get rid of them if you breed these cats.


Ever heard of the 'Grumpy Cat' Tard and her brother Pookie? Both are moggies with "normal" looking parents (they aren't 100% sure about the father, some random neighbourhood tom anyway) but both of the kittens have what appears to be the same mutation that is seen in Munchkins.

(I do not personally like the idea behind the 'Munchkin' breed, but I am aware that the mutation seen in this breed can appear without any "help" from humans, just like the lacking of tail).


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

ForeverHome said:


> I've never heard of a moggie with breathing difficulties due to having evolved a nose that looks like it's been pushed back into its face, or legs so short it can't run or jump, or sensitive eyes, and these are actively bred for so please don't tell me you're trying to get rid of them if you breed these cats.


I don't breed those cats, assuming you are referring to Persians and Munchkins.

I do know Persian breeders who's cats have no problems breathing, eating or anything else.

I also know Munchkin owners who's cats run, climb and jump just as well as their active breed cats. You'll find many videos online showing the same thing.

Neither are breeds that appeal to me, lots of breeds don't, so it's quite simple I just don't own them.

"Hybrid vigour" isn't supported in studies done on dogs, I'm not aware of (nor have I looked for) studies on cats.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

orientalslave said:


> i hope that isn't what you saw were you got your cats.
> 
> I have two (registered pedigree) breeding queens, they live as pets in my house and go where they want, when they want. I also have an escape-proof back garden so they go out there as well via a cat flap in my back door, or when windows are open in the summer.
> 
> ...


stud pants!!!!!!?????????


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

NorthernDarkness said:


> Ever heard of the* 'Grumpy Cat' Tard *and her brother Pookie? Both are moggies with "normal" looking parents (they aren't 100% sure about the father, some random neighbourhood tom anyway) but both of the kittens have what appears to be the same mutation that is seen in Munchkins.
> 
> (I do not personally like the idea behind the 'Munchkin' breed, but I am aware that the mutation seen in this breed can appear without any "help" from humans, just like the lacking of tail).


I've seen Tard all over the internet - I didn't realise she was a moggie - I thought she was a particularly pissed-off looking breed (A Short-Haired Miseryguts, or a Seal-Pointed British Arseface or something - you live and learn. Also thought she was a he, but that's another story)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lostbear said:


> stud pants!!!!!!?????????


You can find out all you need to know and much more if you Google them!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

FH already knows that breeders are selectively breeding to make sure there are nno breathing problems, and that only the bad breeders are now breeding cats who can't breathe, SC. I've already had this discussion...


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lostbear said:


> I've seen Tard all over the internet - I didn't realise she was a moggie - I thought she was a particularly pissed-off looking breed (A Short-Haired Miseryguts, or a Seal-Pointed British Arseface or something - you live and learn. Also thought she was a he, but that's another story)


Yes mr grumpy cat is from 2 random moggie parents that just happened to carry the colourpoint gene  I did speak to the owners over facebook a few years ago about genetics haha :laugh: As people thought he was a snowshoe, he isn't!

Moggies have illness's to, both my moggies have/had problems, its just that for some people a moggie is cheap and vet bills are expensive, they would rather not go through it, cheaper to buy another (sorry if that offends, but its true for some) Then no one who breeds moggies health tests, so no stats to go on, at least breeders know what is in their breed and test to stop it, you cant say they are riddled with illness, when moggies are just prone to the same things as them.

You don't put a poodle together with a CKCS and expect the problems that both dogs have to disappear, infact the pups are then both likely to get all the illness plus new ones! Hence you health tests, I was reading about a bichon crossed with a CKCS and he has Syringomyelia, the owners were told they bred those 2 breeds together for hybrid vigour to breed out that illness... sadly pup has it as it just doesn't work like that!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> You can find out all you need to know and much more if you Google them!


I don't think I'm emotionally ready for that :001_tongue:


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

lostbear said:


> I don't think I'm emotionally ready for that :001_tongue:


Nothing to be afraid of


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

spotty cats said:


> Nothing to be afraid of


I'd be less afraid if they didn't look quite so much like a thong


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> I'd be less afraid if they didn't look quite so much like a thong


Would you prefer a mankini? 

At least he has the figure for it and it's not bright green!


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

OrientalSlave said:


> Would you prefer a mankini?
> 
> At least he has the figure for it and it's not bright green!


That's really made me Chuckle:laugh:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

We like to please.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> I'd be less afraid if they didn't look quite so much like a thong


Why I didn't post the back view :laugh:


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

spotty cats said:


> Why I didn't post the back view :laugh:


That one is probably best left to my imagination!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

It can't be as bad as some of the images of Mankinis one can find via Google...


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> I'd be less afraid if they didn't look quite so much like a thong


Me an' all! He looks like a feline member of the Chippendales . . .

I can almost hear him purring "See anything you like, ladies?"


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Couldn't resist and finally googled - all I can say is 

Oh.

My.

God!

Some of these look kinkybondagesandm fantasy items. I don't think I will dare open the internet again! (Oh the other hand, the baldy cat in the big stripey pants looked like somebodies grand-dad caught without his teeth at midnight on his way to the toilet)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lostbear said:


> Couldn't resist and finally googled - all I can say is
> 
> Oh.
> 
> ...


That was a real LOL post for me. Thanks!


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