# Water snail?



## DollyGirl08

I have a BiOrb with 2 goldfish in...and was wondering if i could get some type of aquatic snail to put in there that would feed on the algae, and also look nice?


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## Fishyfins

sadly, not really. there are snails available for aquariums, but some (like assassin snails) are carniverous, and all of them are pretty lazy, and you would need dozens to keep a tank clean. Apple snails are the most common, but a recent change in the law means they probably wont be sold for much longer.

If your having algae problems, then its usually a symptom of another issue. simply getting something that eats it is like treating the symptom of a disease, not the problem itself. the two causes of excessive algae are too much light, and too much nutriment.

too much light is easy to solve. keep the aquarium out of direct sunlight, and limit the aquarium light itself to only 6 hours or less per day. the fish dont care about light, its there only so you can see the fish. giving more than 6 hours a day is excessive, and leads to huge amounts of algae. plus, keeping the lights to a minimum costs less in electricity. also, aquarium bulbs need changing approximatly every 6 months, regardless of whether they still work or not. during the first 6-8 months, there is a very subtle spectrum shift within the bulb as it ages, and eventually, the spectrum alters (inpercievable to the human eye) to a type of light that favours algae over other plants. so often replacement also reduces algae.

the other cause of algae is an overabundance of nutriment for it in the water. this can mean uneaten fishfood breaking down, or the waste produced by the fish (the more heavily stocked the tank, the more algae). generally speaking, feed the fish once a day, with enough food to keep them eating for about 3 mins. any more than this is excessive, and any uneaten food should be removed. Biorb filters are notoriously underpowered, so it may be that the filter itself cant cope with the amount of waste in there. the algae then feeding on the buildup. I would maybe look at the tank, and stocking levels you have. Biorbs are not ideal tanks. many fishkeepers will tell you how hated they are in the hobby. they look cool, but they arnt really good for fish. Goldfish require large and efficient tanks. for 2 goldies, depending on type of goldfish, the minimum size tank you should aim for is about 100-150L, i think the biggest size biorb is 60L, so for 2 goldfish your tank is already well undersized. goldfish, being wasteful fish, also need very efficient filtration, and with the biorbs filters being woefully underpowered, they are counterproductive to goldfish keeping. with such a high bioload in such a small, inneficient tank, then i would assume thats why there is algae in there. If you really want to reduce algae, then id maybe consider a bigger, and more efficient tank.


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## DollyGirl08

Wow thanks for all that info! 
This is my first ever tank, so apart from reading over the internet i'm not 100% sure of it all yet. 
I've had it for about 2 months now, so the algae has taken that long to built up, and although it's not alot, it's just making the tank and the shell in there a bit green, i have changed the filter and cleaned it so it's cleaner for now. 

My fish are a comet tail and a fan tail...both about 2 inches long at the moment. 

Oh, and it's a 30L BiOrb too. 

Thanks for all that, i'll take it all on board and get onto it. 
Is there any tank brands you would recommend or anything?


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## magpie

All tanks get a bit of algae here and there, so if it's just a bit on the glass and ornaments you'd probably be best off just wiping it away, rather than trying to get something to eat it off.

However, as Fishyfins has said, the main problem here is the size of the tank. Goldfish are very messy creatures, and they grow very large - hence the need for big tanks. 

Your comet is really a pond fish, which means it's very difficult to keep them properly in an aquarium. If you want to keep both the fish you currently have, I'd recommend nothing less than a 200 litre tank, but preferably bigger. If you can move the comet over to a pond (not now, but in the summer when it's warmer), then you could have your fantail and another like it in a 150 litre tank, and they should be fine in that for life. 

I wouldn't worry too much about the brand of tank you get, size is the most important thing for goldfish. My first goldfish tank was a second hand 200 litre that didn't appear to have a brand name on it, but it served them well for a few years, til I got my big 500 litre tank  You will need very good filtration though, external filters are best and with goldfish it's generally recommended that you get a filter rated for double the size of the tank you have.

When you say you 'changed' your filter, what exactly did you do? I don't know much about biorb filters, but you don't want to throw away filter media or clean it under tap water, as you'll be getting rid of all your good bacteria.


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## DollyGirl08

Wow them tanks sound huge! 

When i cleaned the filter...it has like a spongey thing inside, that it says to change so often, so it's just a case of replacing the spongey bit that gets full of the dirt and waste. 

Thanks for all the help. 

I did ask the shop where i got the fish from, they said the 30L tank is fine and never mentioned the comet being more of a pond fish! 

Also....is there any other breeds of fish that can be kept alongside the 2 i have, or just other types of goldfish? 

Any preferences over the type of food to use, or just normal fish flakes? 

I seem to be doing ok with them, but obviously being my first ever tank i'm not going to be getting everything right, so any advice is appreciated.


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## magpie

DollyGirl08 said:


> Wow them tanks sound huge!
> 
> When i cleaned the filter...it has like a spongey thing inside, that it says to change so often, so it's just a case of replacing the spongey bit that gets full of the dirt and waste.


You don't need to replace the sponge, unless it is literally falling to pieces. The good bacteria that consumes your fishes waste lives in the filter, so by replacing the sponge you are throwing away that good bacteria which is very bad news for your fish.

With my tanks, I tend to do a 25% water change every week, and about every 6-8 weeks I rinse out the filter sponges in old tank water to get rid of any gunk that's clogging them up. Never wash filter sponges under tap water, as this will also kill off your good bacteria. It's likely that you'll need to do more frequent water changes and possibly more frequent filter cleaning as your tank is overstocked at the moment.

It would be a very good idea to get yourself a water testing kit (something like the API master kit, NOT the cardboard strip tests which are useless!) so you can keep an eye on your water quality and do water changes as necessary. With an overstocked tank and messy fish like goldfish, it's likely that your water quality is not good right now, so monitoring it will help you to keep your fish alive.

There aren't really any other fish that do well with goldfish, other than more goldfish, and obviously the more goldfish you have the bigger your tank needs to be! The most important thing for now is that you start looking for a larger tank asap, as the more time your fish spend in the 30 litre, the more stunted and sickly they will become.


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## DollyGirl08

Oh ok, thanks, that's really helpful. 

I'd love to keep neon's, would they be ok in the 30L tank if i convert it to a tropical? (obviously once the goldfish have a new tank and the biOrb is cleaned all out)


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## magpie

The problem with neons is that a) they're a shoaling fish, so you need a group of at least 6-8, and b) they're not that hardy and do better in a mature tank.

30 litres isn't very big for fish really - I'm in the middle of setting up a 35 litre at the moment and don't plan to put anything in it other than shrimp. I'm not sure there are any fish I'd really recommend for a 30 litre tank... Maybe someone else will be able to advise?

Anyway, back to the goldfish - I thought it might interest you to see a couple of pics that show how big and chunky these babies get! 

This is my comet, who at 2-3 years old was about 9 inches long. He's now in my friends pond


This is my blackmoor (your fantail will grow to a similar size) when he was about 2 years old (not fully grown yet though!):


And my blackmoor again (though his colour has faded a bit!) at 3 years old, next to a baby fantail:


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## DollyGirl08

Ahh i love that blackmoor, very pretty. 
Thanks for the help. I now know alot more than i did! 

So, as a 'rule', would you say that i'd need 50L per goldfish? So therefore, for the 2 i have, a 100L tank would be needed at the very least?


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## Fishyfins

there seems to be this huge divide in fishkeeping, concerning tanks around the 30L mark. some will say you cant put fish in the, some will say you can. obviously, its best to edge on the side of causion, and the people who say no fish have very good reasons! However, i believe that if you only stck to very specific fish, and only a small number, and have regular water changes, then there shouldnt be an issue. id certainly never put much in a tank under 15-20L though... not fish anyway.
For a 30L tank, i would say your only options are maybe a small shoal of 4 or 5 white cloud mountain minnows (coldwater), or a small group (same number) of galaxy rasbora (also called celestial pearl danio, but they are hard to find, and need a heater. both these fish stay small, and are fairly inactive. some people say regular danios are also ok, but they are highly active fish that need a lot of space. 

If you must use the tank for fish, then with good maintainance, then a small group of one of the two species above should be ok. however, it isnt an ideal size, and aiming for a larger tank would be a much better idea.

glad to see your taking all this on board sensibly


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## DollyGirl08

thank you. 
I just want to do what's best for the animals...i know they are 'only' fish but i still want to give them the best life i can, as i took on that responsibility. 

I will have a browse around for a second hand 100L + tank for them, and just keep the biOrb in case of any emergency/cleaning out the new tank. 

Does it matter if i use live or artificial plants? Any type of stone/gravel? 

I better write a shopping list lol, get that water tester thingy and stuff. 

How long, when kept correctly, would these type of fish live? 
They are only 1-2 years old at the moment, if that.


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## magpie

There are numerous theories on how much space goldfish need!! 

Some say roughly 80L for the first fish and 40L for each additional fish (so 120L for 2 fish, 160L for 3 fish, etc)

At the other end of the scale, some people say roughly 140L for the first fish and 50L for each additional fish (so 190L for 2 fish, 240L for 3 fish, etc).

I think the more space you can give them the better - I'm planning on a maximum of maybe 6 fish in my 500L (there's only 3 in there at the moment). But so long as you're somewhere close to the above guidelines, you should be okay


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## DollyGirl08

ok, so if i aim for 150L being the smallest, anything bigger being a bonus, then they should be ok. 

Say i do get a new tank within the next week or 2, what do i do regarding set up? 
Do i just do it as new, like i had to with my biOrb? Or would i transfer some of the old water into the new tank along with new water to top it up? Then add them chemicals to make the water ok? (please excuse my lack of 'proper' wording, i have no idea what they are called lol)


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## magpie

150L (or bigger) would be perfect! 

Goldfish love live plants, but don't expect to keep a lovely, well-manicured tank as they tend to dig up the plants and eat them! Fake plants would be fine too, but go for the soft, silk ones rather than plastic which can tear their fins.

For substrate, either small gravel or sand would be fine. Some say that sand irritates their gills, but I've had sand in my goldfish tank for ages with no problems.

When you get the new tank, treat the water with dechlorinator (to remove chlorine & chloramine) before you add it to the tank, and make sure you transfer the filter media over from the old tank. Also, make sure that the temperatures are the same before moving the fish over, so as not to give them a shock.

Fancy goldfish should hopefully live for 10-15 years when properly cared for


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## DollyGirl08

thank you so much for all the advice, very much appreciated and i will do what i can now to make the changes needed


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## magpie

DollyGirl08 said:


> thank you so much for all the advice, very much appreciated and i will do what i can now to make the changes needed


Thank you for listening! So many people don't seem to think that goldfish are worth the effort it takes to look after them properly, it makes a nice change for someone to take the information on board 

And make sure you post some pics when you get your new tank set up!


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## DollyGirl08

Ah thanks, i'd hate to think my animals weren't being given what they need. I honestly thought the 30L tank was fine for them, but now i know better i can improve it for them.

When i got the fantail, it was a lone fish in a 15L tank, with no filter or anything, so i upgraded to the 30L biOrb straight away and got 2 more fish, a fan and comet. But my other fan died  and now i'm thinking it may be down to the size of the tank and stuff.

Here's the 3 i had, the black and orange fan is the one that died


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## NaomiM

Your 30l would be perfect for a betta if you get a heater for it  Just an idea to consider!

Look forward to seeing pics of your new setup!

As magpie said, transferring the filter media over from your old tank will help to avoid 'new tank syndrome', and I'd also recommend getting a test kit such as the API master kit and monitoring your ammonia and nitrite levels closely for the first week or so.

Also, you'll then need to cycle your old tank again before putting any fish in it - please ask for advice on this if you need it


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## DollyGirl08

Thanks. I don't think i can swap the filter system over as it's built in to the biOrb? So in that case, would i leave the new tank for a few days then add 1 fish first, leave it a few more days then add the other one? And what would be the best filter for a new big tank?


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## Guest

Leave the new tank to cycle for I think it's 6 weeks.


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## magpie

You don't need to move the whole filter system over, but I would move any sponges or ceramic media over, as these will be home to some of the good bacteria I was talking about earlier. Assuming you can do this, then when you do get your new tank set up, I'd be tempted to transfer both fish over straight away, as they will be much better off in a bigger volume of water.

It's probably a good idea to read up a bit about the nitrogen cycle, as it is absolutely essential to understand it and how it affects water quality and fish health: Fishkeeping - Fishless Tank Cycling and Avoiding New Tank Syndrome - General Guides - Articles

As for filters, definitely go for an external one and make sure that it is rated for at least double the volume of the new tank. Eheim filters are generally regarded as the best brand you can get, but they are a bit more expensive to reflect that. I have a TetraTec EX1200 and a SunSun 1400L/ph on my 500L tank and both seem to work great. The SunSun is very similar to these:All Pond Solutions - 1000EF Aquarium External Filter - All Pond Solutions which a lot of people seem to be buying at the moment, as they are quite cheap for external filters but still pretty decent quality.


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## DollyGirl08

Ok thanks for that. You certainly know your fish! I will have a read up of the links.


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