# Divine minature tigrets . . .



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Just seen these on p4h. They are soooo tempting, but I would like to know if anyone on here knows anything about this breeder, how ethical/responsible they are, what sort of back-up they really give, rather than just promise etc

Stunning PURE BRED, FULL PEDIGREE BENGAL Spotted | Wolverhampton, West Midlands | Pets4Homes

I love these spotty cats, but have ethical reservations about them because of the way the breed originated, but I can feel myself wavering - I had no idea you could get them in this sort of colour, with the gingery faces/points and slivery bodies. I don't know if their colour will change much as they mature (not that I would care - I'm already besotted!) As it isn't advertised as 'rare opportunity to get unusual colour bengal', I assume that this is a recognised colour for the breed.

Look forward to any replies, but I'm going to stop looking at the kittens because I have been promising myself a Siamese or Oriental if I ever get a pedigree, and I don't want to make a rush decision here.

Thanks for any help people can offer.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Yes, they're a "common" (lovely as it is!) colour/pattern for Bengals. I do notice it doesn't say that the kittens will be registered (they might just have forgotten to say as much) and it also states ready to leave with only one vaccination. Not worth it if either of those things really are the case... much better off with registered, fully vac'd kitten.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi Lostbear, try to avoid pets4homes but couldnt resist a look after your description and you are right they are gorgeous!

The advert is very detailed, the phone number links up with the website Royal Bengal. I dont know anything about Bengals but unless I am missing it somewhere I cant see which body the kittens are registered with ? Edit - I see gskinner just got there before me


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Having just looked at their web site. Lovely looking cats, but aren't they all. I'd give them a miss. Anyone who makes a feature of the fact that you will receive a "Royal Bengal Certificate of Purchase" .... that's called a receipt in this house.

There's also no mention of a certain health test (for the adults) which is crucial for Bengals. No mention of registration. Kittens not fully vaccinated. Very sweet looking kittens though.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Also a bid odd that they haven't got any details or names of the parents. Or an indication of which part of the country they are in.

Maybe try one of the Bengal cat clubs instead?


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

Please don't be tempted like I was to get Bengal kittens before 13 weeks having had both vaccinations. I got my two and they have both just finished a 14 day course of Ronidazole for tritrichomonas foetus ( TF ). You can get kittens registered and having had both vaccibatikns and registered TICA and/or GCCF for £450 each so if you really want one I would check out other breeders in your area.

Loopyloro
X


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Brown is the most common Bengal colour, cute as kittens are.

There are other breeds with similar looks and more reliable temperaments, without the ethical dilemma of breeding wild cats to domestics.

12 weeks may be ticas recommended age, it is over here.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I would be inclined to stay away , too many things popping out at me ... I would look at the breeders on the clubs website 

You should be looking for full vac, leave a 13 weeks, registered with a GCCF/Tica 
Both parents DNA tested and on a high quality diet


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Thank you for all of your replies - some of them confirmed a couple of misgivings I had (why no details of the parents? Why does the purchaser have to pay extra for a pedigree), and others highlighted things that I wouldn't have even realised were amiss (only one vaccination, no mention of health testing for parents). I really appreciate your input.

Another thing I wondered about amongst all the waffle, was that they were for pet homes only, but there was no mention of early neutering; nor was there any mention of taking a kitten back if (say) the purchasers' circumstances changed.

Gorgeous as they are (and my word, they are - they look so fierce!), I will step back from them.

Many thanks again.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I used to breed bengals and know many brill breeders so pm me if you want a recommendation 

Parents to be HCM scanned and PK-def tested (then the usual fiv felv)

However their website/advert NO mention of health tests OR registration's... HMMMM!!!!!!! So 100% no and avoid, unless you contact them and ask in case they have 'forgot' to put it on the website.

please visit bengalforums.com as loads of Bengal breeders on there and pet owners can help.

Basically if you want another child that is pretty much mental and demanding 24-7 care, are dominant and must not go outside alone. Then yes a Bengal is for you. and 2 from the same litter is the best idea!!! 

Do you have any other cats /dog breeds? At home? 

We have put a lot of people off as most people are obviously attracted to their looks, once seen in person and got them home they instantly regret it and they end up sold on or in rescue, they aren't a breed for everyone, sadly the amount of BYB are ruining the breed  Creating badly bred, badly raised vicious ones which give the genuine ones a bad name :crying:

p.s. they don't look lilke tigers, they look like leopards  toygers look like tigers! :laugh:


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Taylorbaby said:


> I used to breed bengals and know many brill breeders so pm me if you want a recommendation
> 
> Parents to be HCM scanned and PK-def tested (then the usual fiv felv)
> 
> ...


We have 3 dogs (great dane, staffie and westie, aged 18 months, 6 years and 9 years) and a x persian cat (aged 21 years). We're aware we are on borrowed time with Ollie, out cat, and are keeping an eye open. The likelihood is that we won't get another cat until she has gone (which hopefully won't be for a good while yet), but untila couple of years ago she had two cat companions - we lost them both within a few months of each other (they were mere striplings of 18 - one developed a tumour, the other had a fall and broke her spine and had to be pts).

TBH, I have always liked siamese, but when I saw these little leopardlettes, I was swept along on a wave of kitten-longing! Wholly the wrong reason for getting one, as you say. They sound wonderful cats, though, but possibly not right for our family, as I couldn't guarantee keeping them indoors with the dogs going in and out. All of our cats have been allowed out, as we back onto fields so it is safe for them to go for a wander.

Thank you for your reply - I'll certainly look into the breed as possible - they are stunningly attractive - and a girl can dream, can't she? LOL


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Just looked up 'toygers' (I'd never heard of them). They are soo pretty - but the bengals have the edge in the looks department IMO.

There's another litter on Pets4Homes (I was looking for the first ones to show my daughter how pretty they were, and came across it)

BENGAL KITTENS FOR SALE just 3 kittens left! | Wigan, Greater Manchester | Pets4Homes

Disgustingly it recommends them as Christmas gifts. Sometimes I could just spit!:cursing:


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Just photos of the spotty tummies?

Even Oriental Tabbies have spotty tummies at this age. Many of them moult out to have blurry ticked bodies with no spots at all.

Yes Bengals do go through an ugly duckling stage, but that's later on. 

No point in selling them as "Leopardettes" (which is one of the names Jean Mill - the Bengal originator - considered calling them, years ago) if you can't see any of the body markings. They might end up tabbies for all we'd know.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Again no mention of registration or vaccination of health tests. Parents might be from a byb or were sold as pets not for breeding.


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> I used to breed bengals and know many brill breeders so pm me if you want a recommendation
> 
> Parents to be HCM scanned and PK-def tested (then the usual fiv felv)
> 
> ...


Was just going to say get in touch with you :lol:

My puss is from tb and she's the most amazing temperament etc.

Didn't know you'd stopped the bengaling. Lots of love to you and from Teebs xxxx


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

MerlinsMum said:


> Just photos of the spotty tummies?
> 
> Even Oriental Tabbies have spotty tummies at this age. Many of them moult out to have blurry ticked bodies with no spots at all.
> 
> ...


*

Oh - I didn't know that - thought I'd made it up - it wasn't in the ad. The first ad looked at showed all the spots and stripes, and ferocious little snarling faces.

And you are so right - choosing colour over character could be a disappointment to many people if the colour changes, as it so often does.*


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

My obviously biased advice is to stick to Siamese or Orientals. They don't have problems with HCM, the only potential problem to test for is PRA and there are plenty of breeders of registered kittens. There are also spotted tabby Orientals, and the SLH versions suit some people.

When you are looking at adverts, don't even dream of getting kittens from people who don't mention registering their cats with GCCF or TICA. No-one who is doing that would forget to put it on their adverts. 

Ideally they will be early-neutering as well, along with doing whatever health tests are necessary for the breed.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Also I notice you say letting them out - don't especially not with a Bengal - really not advised. For all the obvious reasons and often they end up as the bully in the area - they just shouldn't be allowed out. You will also find very few breeders will sell to you if you say you are going to let them out. Safe indoor homes are needed.


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

Adverts can be misleading in both ways (although 1 vac would put me off straight away), we do not have anywhere on our website about tests but all ours are tested  your best bet if you think these are the kittens for you would be to email the person to find out more info, there are lots of other breeders out there one or two that I know of, there is that old saying that if you're not sure then walk away and find another breeder that you would be happy with


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

I know this is not the case for everyone but for me, I am seriously allergic to cats. My eyes itch intensely and almost close with a jelly like substance appearing over my eyeballs!! Also, throat itchy and sneeze loads. However, I am NOT even a little bit allergic to my two Bengals!

I know that not everyone who has a cat allergy WON'T be allergic to Bengals as well.

My two are indoor cats but in the future when they are older, I may look into building them an outdoor run.

Loopyloro
x


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Many people find they aren't allergic to pedigrees - my hubby is allergic to a lot of moggies but not my pedigree cats.


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

spid said:


> Many people find they aren't allergic to pedigrees - my hubby is allergic to a lot of moggies but not my pedigree cats.


Weirdly, I am allergic to my sister in laws pedigree Persians so I must be an odd one!! I read somewhere that it has something to do with the sheddings of a Bengal being different and not actually the fur.

Either way, I am very happy. My youngest son (17) thinks he is allergic to my Bengals though - his eyes go very red and itchy and he sneezes for England. I told him it was a shame - I would be sad to see him leave home! :001_tt2:

Loopyloro
x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lostbear said:


> We have 3 dogs (great dane, staffie and westie, aged 18 months, 6 years and 9 years) and a x persian cat (aged 21 years). We're aware we are on borrowed time with Ollie, out cat, and are keeping an eye open. The likelihood is that we won't get another cat until she has gone (which hopefully won't be for a good while yet), but untila couple of years ago she had two cat companions - we lost them both within a few months of each other (they were mere striplings of 18 - one developed a tumour, the other had a fall and broke her spine and had to be pts).
> 
> TBH, I have always liked siamese, but when I saw these little leopardlettes, I was swept along on a wave of kitten-longing! Wholly the wrong reason for getting one, as you say. They sound wonderful cats, though, but possibly not right for our family, as I couldn't guarantee keeping them indoors with the dogs going in and out. All of our cats have been allowed out, as we back onto fields so it is safe for them to go for a wander.
> 
> Thank you for your reply - I'll certainly look into the breed as possible - they are stunningly attractive - and a girl can dream, can't she? LOL


They do get on with dogs, but def no if you have any other cats, even if you had a Bengal at home, ID be inclined to say no just as once they hit a certain age it seems to be a intense dislike for any other cats, even ones they were raised with from 5 weeks old   But not littermates just the usual spots with those, I mean other breeds that they can dominant and bully, which is generally all breeds bar another Bengal! Maybe a tonk / Siamese could hold their own.

They are bred from a tree dwelling solitary cat, you will notice lots of breeders rehoming with 'no other pets' they bond to their human and only want to be with you, that's it!

One of mine used to knock the others out of the way and grab my hand to stroke her with it!!! God forbid another cat got attention! 

But no 100% you have to be even more careful even with fields, 2 of mine live with a lady who backs onto just fields, sadly, and I am nearly in tears here, the girl went missing and came home with her tail broke   She now only has a inch long stub and nearly died, this lady lives in the middle of no where, and moved there purely to be safe for the cats  They are so nosey and into every little thing, not sure they have a sense of danger! 
I wouldnt let Siamese/other other either, but obviously your choice!



lostbear said:


> Just looked up 'toygers' (I'd never heard of them). They are soo pretty - but the bengals have the edge in the looks department IMO.
> 
> There's another litter on Pets4Homes (I was looking for the first ones to show my daughter how pretty they were, and came across it)
> 
> ...


Yes the toyger is a off shot from the Bengal, jean mills daughter noticed that one of the bengals had markings on her face like a tiger, so she took that one and started breeding toygers, I feel that they look like normal tabbies, but if anyone wants one then this person is your breeder (Only 3 in the country I believe - you see many about they aren't real!) Her bengals are also out of this world 

Queenanne Cats - Bengals and Toyger Cat Breeder in Bromsgrove, Worcestershire West Midlands



Flamingoes said:


> Was just going to say get in touch with you :lol:
> 
> My puss is from tb and she's the most amazing temperament etc.
> 
> Didn't know you'd stopped the bengaling. Lots of love to you and from Teebs xxxx


Ah yes about 2 years ago was my last litter! Maybe a bit longer! hmy: Sadly after losing thousands and friends giving away rosette kittens for FREE!! As no one wanted them, I had to give up  Love the breed, so many ruining it, a lot of people I knew have also given up as well.

It seems that everyone seems to buy one for breeding now and then sell entire litters for breeding, everyone is a breeder! No pet owners left! lol! Esp when they can get more selling on active  Way too many BYB, just look at the adverts on here already, then those people will have litters and so on 



LOOPYLORO said:


> I know this is not the case for everyone but for me, I am seriously allergic to cats. My eyes itch intensely and almost close with a jelly like substance appearing over my eyeballs!! Also, throat itchy and sneeze loads. However, I am NOT even a little bit allergic to my two Bengals!
> 
> I know that not everyone who has a cat allergy WON'T be allergic to Bengals as well.
> 
> ...


Yes I had a few people not allergic to my raggies or bengals that had allergies, but a lot of people that didn't know they had allergies were allergic, just depends on the individual person and the dander etc!


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

Hi Taylorbaby

You say - 

It seems that everyone seems to buy one for breeding now and then sell entire litters for breeding, everyone is a breeder! No pet owners left! lol! Esp when they can get more selling on active Way too many BYB, just look at the adverts on here already, then those people will have litters and so on 

I have to sadly agree. However, my two you will be glad to hear, are booked in to have their pompoms off early December.

They are also strictly indoor cats. They do, however, like to run around my enclosed garden but I fear that as they get older, they will be very likely to jump the 6ft fence (well, scramble/jump it) so hope to build an enclosure at some point in the garden for them.

Loopyloro
x


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

They are beautiful aren't they? I always advertise my kittens on pets4homes, there are some lovely kittens advertised on there, many breeders advertise on pets4homes but unfortunately the bybs do too and people tend to notice these and think the site is a bad place. 
As long as the kittens are registered with a registered body such as GCCF or Tica etc, with pedigree papers and have their first and second vaccinations and worming then everything should be ok, steer clear of the ones selling with no papers and allowing them to leave under 12 weeks of age.
If it is too cheap and sounds too good to be true then it probably is.


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

sharonbee said:


> They are beautiful aren't they? I always advertise my kittens on pets4homes, there are some lovely kittens advertised on there, many breeders advertise on pets4homes but unfortunately the bybs do too and people tend to notice these and think the site is a bad place.
> As long as the kittens are registered with a registered body such as GCCF or Tica etc, with pedigree papers and have their first and second vaccinations and worming then everything should be ok, steer clear of the ones selling with no papers and allowing them to leave under 12 weeks of age.
> If it is too cheap and sounds too good to be true then it probably is.


I sadly learned this the hard way.....however, said breeder is advertising her new litter on there now (TICA registered this time and leaving mum at 13 weeks) but I KNOW her kitten/s and cat/s (maybe not all but definitely some) will have TF as mine have it and could not have got it anywhere else but from her as they always had the stinky, bloody diarrhoea etc. They are being sold for £450 each. Good luck to the new owners is all I can say.....but sadly, I feel that they will be going through what I did.

Loopyloro
x


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

spid said:


> Many people find they aren't allergic to pedigrees - my hubby is allergic to a lot of moggies but not my pedigree cats.


My ex is one of those people. He's very allergic to moggies, but doesn't have issues with my BSHs/BLHs/Foldie. He has 2 BSHs living with him now.. 
He was also able to attend cat shows with me (talking about '600-800 cats per day' kind of shows) as long as he stayed away from the 'moggie section' of the show halls.

My cousin is also 'immune' to my cats, but she's allergic to moggies (hasn't met other pedigreed cats than mine) and most dogs. When she was younger they even had to give their own cat and dog away 'cause she was so allergic. It was very sad because she really loves animals a lot.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

LOOPYLORO said:


> Hi Taylorbaby
> 
> You say -
> 
> ...


They will be able to scale that now lol  Can you enclose the garden? OR harness walk them or get a enclosure? The thing with letting them do this now as its harder when you want to keep them in with the weather etc So its best just to not let them until you have the means to keep them in, ESP if they aren't neutered, in 2seconds over the wall and off to wander never to be seen again! Remember they can be done from 10weeks of age, as long as they have their balls down, they can be coppy chopped! :laugh:



sharonbee said:


> They are beautiful aren't they? I always advertise my kittens on pets4homes, there are some lovely kittens advertised on there, many breeders advertise on pets4homes but unfortunately the bybs do too and people tend to notice these and think the site is a bad place.
> As long as the kittens are registered with a registered body such as GCCF or Tica etc, with pedigree papers and have their first and second vaccinations and worming then everything should be ok, steer clear of the ones selling with no papers and allowing them to leave under 12 weeks of age.
> If it is too cheap and sounds too good to be true then it probably is.


I actually think More breeders should advertise on places like that (apart from gumtree, flippin hate that place!) That way people can make up their own mind 'good breeder that sells kittens with everything' or save £100 and get a moggie with nothing' no brainer to me!

I sadly had 3 phone calls 2weeks ago, all 3 people have bought a 'ragdoll' from byb's at 7-8weeks old. sadly all 3 have died   One lady waited 18months to get another (she reported the breeder but as she isn't registered nothing can be done) and came for one, but has ended up reserving 2 from me! 

The other lady is too upset to even think about another. And the other lady called me in tears today as the kitten was pts last week and is now on my waiting list, all 3 want to do it properly now and wished they did in the first place.

They paid between £300-400!!!! Where as pedigrees are £400-475 (higher end normally neutered) One spent £2,000 one spent £800 both on vet fees, the other didn't get a chance as the kitten died 2 days after they bought it home 

Happily I & others on here have managed to stop someone going to a 'breeder' selling her 'ragdolls' for £395!!!! at 8weeks old, no vacs, no papers no no health tests no nothing! Blows me mind that people buy these?! He may now be going on my waiting list lol!! :laugh:



LOOPYLORO said:


> I sadly learned this the hard way.....however, said breeder is advertising her new litter on there now (TICA registered this time and leaving mum at 13 weeks) but I KNOW her kitten/s and cat/s (maybe not all but definitely some) will have TF as mine have it and could not have got it anywhere else but from her as they always had the stinky, bloody diarrhoea etc. They are being sold for £450 each. Good luck to the new owners is all I can say.....but sadly, I feel that they will be going through what I did.
> 
> Loopyloro
> x


Sadly a lot of Bengals do have TF, it was brought over from the states, I believe some other breeds have it to now. Some (and I say some!) Bengal breeders feed raw to mask it, once kitten is home its obvious that something is wrong! I don't know why she does just test and sort her cats out?  Not very nice really is it? 

Just in case anyone wants to know TF causes upset tum that doesn't stop, you can either leave it 3 years for the parasite to leave the cats tummy or have a test done that costs about £70-100.

After this test they order you special tablets from the only producer of them in the country costing about £100-150. You give this to the cat for 2weeks everyday. 
Most of the time you don't need to test after as its obvious its gone, but it is best to if you want to get another kitten. (poo samples to be taken from servel poos over 24hours)


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

Taylorbaby said:


> They will be able to scale that now lol  Can you enclose the garden? OR harness walk them or get a enclosure? The thing with letting them do this now as its harder when you want to keep them in with the weather etc So its best just to not let them until you have the means to keep them in, ESP if they aren't neutered, in 2seconds over the wall and off to wander never to be seen again! Remember they can be done from 10weeks of age, as long as they have their balls down, they can be coppy chopped! :laugh:
> 
> I actually think More breeders should advertise on places like that (apart from gumtree, flippin hate that place!) That way people can make up their own mind 'good breeder that sells kittens with everything' or save £100 and get a moggie with nothing' no brainer to me!
> 
> ...


The test cost £60. The ronidazole tablets (30mg per 1kg weight of cat) 30 tablets (14 for each kitten and 2 spare) cost £87. Thankfully Petplan paid and I only paid the excess.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

LOOPYLORO said:


> The test cost £60. The ronidazole tablets (30mg per 1kg weight of cat) 30 tablets (14 for each kitten and 2 spare) cost £87. Thankfully Petplan paid and I only paid the excess.


That is a good price!! So not even as expensive as I said, (that was london prices) poor cats


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## LOOPYLORO (Oct 22, 2013)

I thought it would be more expensive too!

I'm not going to get them retested unless they have the stinky diarrhoea as they are indoor kitties and I have no other cats.

I truly believe the Ronidazole has done its stuff

Loopyloro
X


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