# Golden Retriever Puppy Help!



## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi guys, were new here!

Me and my partner Kayleigh bought a Golden Retriever puppy from a VERY reputable breeder early March. I've never owned a dog be it a puppy or adult, whereas my partner had an older dog when she was younger as part of the family.

Early days were excellent, he (Alfie) did a lot of sleeping and a lot of being quiet and cute, which at the time and only weighing a few kilos was fine. As time went on he got more energy around the house, walks remained excellent and even now we've never had a problem on the lead but his energy is easily spent on a short walk.

He seemed to develop a dislike for myself, which we both put down to a dominance thing. He started to jump up a lot and snap at my hand, the same way he did when he was a puppy, however it started to hurt and my methods of dealing with it seemed only to escalate the situation. We resorted to puppy training which was a nightmare, it was held in an Equestrian Centre which stunk of horse manure which it turns out retrievers love, so we spent 2 sessions dragging him round for an hour before deciding this wasn't helping, just blistering our hands!

We got in contact with a friend, who happens to be a member of the local gundog team and a trainer, and part of the local police dog handling team. As a result she's superb with dogs. She came round and it was like the UK version of Cesar Millan. She clearly has an affinity with him and within hours he was sitting, staying, going down, leaving and sleeping almost on command. This knowledge and ability has been relayed to us with relative success, but problems still remain.

We (me and my partner) are almost unable to eat without being barked at and attacked, be it on the sofa (which is a no-go area now aswell) or up the table. This had led to many arguments and a lot of stress and meals out/takeaways. If we could just kerb this it would be amazing. The dog trainer lady broke him in minutes when we emulated a meal last week, however it seems without someone there to compound these commands we are vulnerable when sitting down/eating and he can sense this.

I don't think we've got an aggressive puppy and he's getting better by the week, but it's a lot of strain on our home-life and we want nothing more than to be able to lead it normally. We resort to giving him treats and Jumbones to shut him up whilst we eat, but then it's just rushed so we can get it over with. We were also told this isn't right as despite his silence and the fact he's sidetracked with something else, he's still conditioning us to do something for him when he plays up, which breaks all the rules of being a pack leader, which I fully understand.

Can anyone lend any advice. We don't want to shut him out in the garden/another room as we love him and he's our family pet, but it's coming close to that. Also, while I'm posting, can dogs be jealous? I've spent all afternoon laying on the sofa with no attention from Alfie at all, he's done his own thing all day! However, when my partner gets home he's very restless and agitated by our presence together on the sofa, even after being close to exhausted on long walks/runs!

Oh, I forgot to say, he's a male Golden Retriever (excellent pedigree with many FT champions) and he's just about 5 months old. Are we getting somewhere or should we be making progress quicker?


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

I have a 7 month old cocker spaniel and he has just gone through a particularly "cocky" phase.

Re the meal times this is what i would do.

Buy a large puppy kong
Stuff it with nature diet (or any other good quality wet food)
Freeze it.(It will then last longer than the jumbo bone things)
Give this to him just before you sit and eat.
DON'T under any circumstances "reward" him for barking at you or bothering you while you are eating with more treats.

If he ignores the kong and barks at you i would shut him out of the room.

They learn pretty quick 
Barking = no attention (ie shut out)
Not Barking = attention

A good book i always recommend is The Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

Sounds like you have already had some helpful advice. I am no expert, but have 5 dogs ranging from 4 years down to 13 months....
For us, crates have been invaluable. To begin with I wasn't sure because I felt that it was cruel. However, used correctly, they are a godsend!
In our case, we have 2 largeish dogs and 3 smaller ones. I don't have to worry when we go out that the dogs could inadvertently hurt one another. They do get pretty boisterous when playing and that is fine when we are there to supervise.
They quickly learned to love their crates as they are fed in there and sleep in them.
The 2 bigger dogs no longer need to be crated, but at the moment, I can't see a time when I would feel totally happy leaving all 5 free and unsupervised just in case things got rough and one of the little dogs got hurt.
When we are eating, the dogs know they go in their crates (doors are left open now as they know to leave us in peace)
As far as jealously is concerned, I am sure it is likely that he is jealous of you.
You need to remember that he is a dog and you are the human - I don't agree with all this domination stuff that some people talk about, but I do believe that your dog needs to know where he comes in the "pecking order" of your family.
We always eat before the dogs. 
We go through doors before them and make them wait, and they all know that the sofa is out of bounds (unless invited up for a sneaky cuddle!)

He is still very young, but you really need to get this sorted before he gets much older and bigger!
Good luck.
x


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

PennyH said:


> Sounds like you have already had some helpful advice. I am no expert, but have 5 dogs ranging from 4 years down to 13 months....
> For us, crates have been invaluable. To begin with I wasn't sure because I felt that it was cruel. However, used correctly, they are a godsend!
> In our case, we have 2 largeish dogs and 3 smaller ones. I don't have to worry when we go out that the dogs could inadvertently hurt one another. They do get pretty boisterous when playing and that is fine when we are there to supervise.
> They quickly learned to love their crates as they are fed in there and sleep in them.
> ...


Totally agree. We have used a crate and i do think you have to get ontop of this sort of thing at this age so it doesn't develop.


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

I would also recommend a crate.

I wasn't sure about them either but after doing a lot of reading and asking for advice I realised it was for the best. 

Our Bailey is a big chewer and after he'd eaten through my computer cables for the 3rd time, we got a crate. He took to it immediately and is as happy as can be in there. 

We also do the door thing, making him come out last, he's not allowed upstairs, he's not allowed on the furniture, he has to work (e.g sit, staym lie down etc.) for everything he gets, even an ice cube! It definitely helps them learn their place in the pack.

Good luck!


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Thanks for the replies.

Re: Crate
We did try this and after 3 weeks of day and night him attacking the cage and being scared (we thought we would make progress if we perservered) and barking for at one point 3 hours late on a Saturday night we decided that the cage wasn't for him, despite it's reported success with most dogs. However, at night he is amazing. We put him in the kitchen which is cut in half by a large stairgate, he NEVER, and that's not an understatement, barks at night and sleeps instantly.

I would put him in there when we eat/want some peace but I'm concerned he will then associate that area with being naughty and become restless at nights, and as a matter of priority, I'd rather be hassled at dinnertime than at night! Sort of a lesser of 2 evils approach.

So, we try shutting him away but the barking is relentless. We try letting him back in when the barking pauses (it's only temporary ((10-15secs per pause)) but he just re-ignites and attacks/barks when we are eating. We are now eating before him and doing the walking through door thing first and he's responding, but still mealtimes are terrible. I'd hoped that shutting him away at meal times would stop the barking and calm him down, but he can tell the difference between when we're eating and when we want some peace and barks accordingly, clever little so and so!

I'm hoping he grows out of some of it, what do you think? We have the dog handler on call to help whenever we want with him, but we need to do it ourselves as much as anything else! It's a concern as spending time with my partner becomes strained and awkward as he's clearly jealous (I didn't know whether they could feel this emotion) and he acts up making us split off to address him and spend evenings in different rooms to calm the situation. How can we kerb this jealousy? We're more than happy to have him beside us in the same room whilst we watch TV or similar but he's more concerned in starting a fight by biting our hands while we're on the sofa, which then of cause leads us to get up to correct him, and so the cycle starts!


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

I would seriously try and just calm the whole thing down at mealtimes with a frozen kong. It will mean he is leaving you alone and the kong is his reward for that positive behaviour.

If he has been calm and had the kong then immediately after eating i would take him out for a good play in the garden for 10 minutes. A good game i learnt the other day is called "stop"

Have a treat or toy in your hand and say "come play" run about getting him to follow you all over the place and then all of a sudden say "STOP" and raise your hand and stay dead still. He should stop and look at you waiting for your next move, pause and then do it again.

Good for your relationship, showing leadership and focussing his attention (if he jumos up then ignore him until he stops (even if it's just for a second) then carry on.

Can i ask how much

Exercise
Play
Training

he gets in an average day ?


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

rainy said:


> I would seriously try and just calm the whole thing down at mealtimes with a frozen kong. It will mean he is leaving you alone and the kong is his reward for that positive behaviour.
> 
> If he has been calm and had the kong then immediately after eating i would take him out for a good play in the garden for 10 minutes. A good game i learnt the other day is called "stop"
> 
> ...


We play that game with bailey but we call it 'Wait'!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Goldens dont tend to be a very dominant breed, have you spoken to your breeder and asked his/her advice - ours are so laid back they are almost horizontal


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> We play that game with bailey but we call it 'Wait'!


Just learnt it and it's great.

Oscar gets a bit overexcited but in some ways that's good because he has got to learn to calm down a bit


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

rainy said:


> Just learnt it and it's great.
> 
> Oscar gets a bit overexcited but in some ways that's good because he has got to learn to calm down a bit


Yeah, Bailey is quite hyper although has calmed down hugelly since being neutered and changed his diet, but it's a fab game for him, he absolutely freezes and doesn't move a muscle, just his eyes while he waits for me to tell him it's okay to move again!


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> Yeah, Bailey is quite hyper although has calmed down hugelly since being neutered and changed his diet, but it's a fab game for him, he absolutely freezes and doesn't move a muscle, just his eys while he waits for me to tell him it's okay to move again!


Still trying to decide when to get Oscar one  He is pushing 8 months now.

(sorry OP for the hijack )


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

He gets 2 30min walks a day, which have to be cut short on occasions due to what seems to be a complete lack of energy, i.e. laying down in the street and just stopping and sitting compared to the start of the walk which is a good pace with him focused. Usually after walks he comes in and slumps down and dozes.

He gets played with whenever and wherever we can, no set times though as we work strange hours between us. I'm concerned we won't be able to snap him out of this and he'll be forever a nightmare at mealtimes, which won't be good for anyone.

The breeder is a very reputable breeder and we were able to see the parents who were indeed horizontal as per your description. My boss also has a 5yr old Retriever from the same breeder and indeed the same Sire, who is as daft as a brush and very laid back.

I think it's something were doing or not doing but I want to be responsible and not make things worse. I can't help but lose my temper with him as he picked up "Sit" and "Down" in seconds and does them without a seconds thought, but he just goes ballistic at mealtimes?!


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

rainy said:


> Still trying to decide when to get Oscar one  He is pushing 8 months now.
> 
> (sorry OP for the hijack )


Yeah, sorry! 

We had the boy done at 6 1/2 months, he really was very, very hyper, like super hyper, bouncing off the walls kinda hyper.

He's like a different boy now, still has his crazy times but on the whole he's just so much calmer now.

Plus we changed him from Beta to NatureDiet/Autarky and it's been amazing.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

Is he left on his own much during the day?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

t0mbop said:


> He gets 2 30min walks a day, which have to be cut short on occasions due to what seems to be a complete lack of energy, i.e. laying down in the street and just stopping and sitting compared to the start of the walk which is a good pace with him focused. Usually after walks he comes in and slumps down and dozes.
> 
> He gets played with whenever and wherever we can, no set times though as we work strange hours between us. I'm concerned we won't be able to snap him out of this and he'll be forever a nightmare at mealtimes, which won't be good for anyone.
> 
> ...


I take is from this that he is very food orientated


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Yes is he left either in the mornings or afternoons. I work long days and my partner works either early or late so he's with one of us for usually a bit more than half the day at least. 

He's quite food orientated but recently he seems to have lost his appetite in his own food and is so fixated by ours. He eats his eventually but not with the "rip-the-bowl-from-hand" gusto he once did. 

It's not all bad I suppose, he's come on in leaps and bounds in other areas, he now swims (usually 2-3 times a week) at the woods which is also accompanied with a 1hr run/walk which he never did before. The vets told us the excersize he's getting is perfectly fine for a puppy his age and shouldn't be overworked due to hip problems in later life.

I'm very tempted to shut him away at mealtimes but part of me thinks this is counterproductive and will just make him worse! As said, when the dog trainer was round the other night we managed to sit on the floor with plates and drinks and we were completely untroubled and he laid with no entertainment for over an hour just with us, and it was beautiful.

Is it possible he can pick up on her presence or "energy" and act accordingly, almost like putting on a show? Or am I humanising this too much?


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

HighlandQuine said:


> Yeah, sorry!
> 
> We had the boy done at 6 1/2 months, he really was very, very hyper, like super hyper, bouncing off the walls kinda hyper.
> 
> ...


I found Oscar calmed down after i took him off the Purina, i have recommended that to people on here before with very mouthy puppies if they were on it.



t0mbop said:


> He gets 2 30min walks a day, which have to be cut short on occasions due to what seems to be a complete lack of energy, i.e. laying down in the street and just stopping and sitting compared to the start of the walk which is a good pace with him focused. Usually after walks he comes in and slumps down and dozes.
> 
> He gets played with whenever and wherever we can, no set times though as we work strange hours between us. I'm concerned we won't be able to snap him out of this and he'll be forever a nightmare at mealtimes, which won't be good for anyone.
> 
> ...


I would use the kong to break the cycle.

Should take him 20 minutes to get through a frozen kong (might need an adult one now) then lots of praise when you have finished.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

To refresh, the frozen kong sounds great.

He has one already, but we ran out of the squirty stuff. Is this squirty stuff what you're referring to regarding freezing? Would he actually be tempted by this as I assume it would lose it's smell being frozen?


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> To refresh, the frozen kong sounds great.
> 
> He has one already, but we ran out of the squirty stuff. Is this squirty stuff what you're referring to regarding freezing? Would he actually be tempted by this as I assume it would lose it's smell being frozen?


I think nature diet is better (and cheaper than the squirty stuff).

I also stuff Oscars with his kibble mixed with yoghurt and then freeze.

He loves it.

That way you should be able to keep him in the room and distract him. You are not rewarding his behaviour because he should not display it.

If he still does i would shut him in another room with the kong.


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## Matrix/Logan (May 7, 2009)

I definately agree with a lot of advice you have been given on here about the crates but as your bot doesn't like them i would certainly fill a kong and put him in his 'bedroom' (the kitchen) with it when you eat. It isn't then a punishment for him as he actually gets something good at your mealtimes too so i think he will look at his kong as a positive. 

We have a 16 week old gsd and he has a kong which he only ever gets given when he goes in his run in the mornings when i go to work (it is more of a novelty then as he isn't allowed to play with it any other time), then after lunch he goes in his crate in the lounge for the afternoon and then has the run of the bungalow the rest of the day and evening and goes in his crate for bed. This routine suits him and he knows when we dish up our dinner to go into his crate while we eat and he has a bonio!! The same as i am sure your boy will soon learn to expect his kong in the kitchen when you have your dinner, and you get to eat in peace while he enjoys unloading his kong!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Can I ask when you feed your dog?

Rupert was always fed before us, as we eat quite late (about 7pm) and he'd eat about 5-6pm. We got told when we had a few issues with him, that he must ALWAYS eat after us. So we ate as early as we could, and fed him after. This unleashed a huge can of worms, he'd bark, jump at people's plates all through dinner etc.

So I thought, well b*gger it, and fed him before us again. I've never had any problems since. As we eat a couple hours after, it isn't any kind of pack leader related issues, and Roo barked tonight during my dinner, but I later found out it was because the lady at the kennels hadn't fed him yet!! Just a thought on how when you feed can affect them, although a lot of people dont agree with feeding dogs first, but seeing as it works well for us, I will use this for us all the time.

Re the kong, make sure that before he gets it, you make him sit/lie quietly for 30 seconds, even if your dinner is on the table, give him a bit of attention so he listens/will lie down for a little and then give the kong, so its like a 'you've sat nicely whilst I've got my tea on the table, so here you go' kind of thing. Ignoring Roo's barks during dinner never made him stop, for some reason he just went on and on and on, kind of odd!


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Yeah we used to feed him before us, and he was OK but not great. It's a bit mixed now who gets fed first to be honest, usually him now as we were told this is best. 

Like you said they don't stop when ignored and the situation just escalates, result in one of us getting down from the table, and so he's won! Last night was terrible he just went mental.

He's definitely jealous. This morning I hugged my partner before going to work and he jumped up and started barking, at both of us, no-one in particular until I let go. It's getting a bit silly really but how do you not make a dog jealous. He gets all our attention now and that's only just enough to shut him up!


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> Yeah we used to feed him before us, and he was OK but not great. It's a bit mixed now who gets fed first to be honest, usually him now as we were told this is best.
> 
> Like you said they don't stop when ignored and the situation just escalates, result in one of us getting down from the table, and so he's won! Last night was terrible he just went mental.
> 
> He's definitely jealous. This morning I hugged my partner before going to work and he jumped up and started barking, at both of us, no-one in particular until I let go. It's getting a bit silly really but how do you not make a dog jealous. He gets all our attention now and that's only just enough to shut him up!


You have just answered your own question.
He should not be getting all of your attention, you should give it when it is convenient to you, not when he demands it, and if that means using a baby gate then I think you should use it.
If he gets attention every time he plays up, then that is what he is going to do, and it will only get worse.
He is training you!!!!


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

I couldn't agree more, but when you're sitting on the sofa and he comes in and tries to get up there, we say "NO". He gets more and more worked up and just sits and barks and/or bites our hands to get our attention. He's the family pet and I don't want him to spend his life shut away but it's coming increasingly close to that!

When he plays up like that should he be shut away? We try it and it just results in him getting worse upon re-entry!?


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

How long do you leave him for?
He will be worse at the moment, but you have to persevere with the training methods you choose to use, he has been trained by you to expect attention when he plays up, and to undo that will take some considerable time


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi. I like the sound of the behaviourist you use, being a cesar fan and all!

Why do you think the behaviourst got results where you can't?

You have described so many problems that, in my opinion, there can only be one reason.

He see's himself as the pack leader and you as his pack members. You can fill as many kongs up as you want (they are a good idea, as I use them myself), but ultimately you cannot resolve this until he see's you as the boss. Dogs do not dislike anybody, but they do pick up weakness, insecurity and nervousness and they will react to these emotions.

It is unusual for labs to behave like this, you obviously have a one off dog!

What are the walks like? does he walk to a heel or is he pulling you all over the place? How much of the home is he allowed in? anywhere or is it restricted? How much attention and fuss do you give him in an average day?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

OK, but how do we train him out of it? What methods? He just barks and makes it impossible to ignore him. Especially when he jumps on the sofa and bites your hand. Is shutting out the way to go? Just to break the cycle?

He's left from 7.30-2.30 if it's a morning or 2.00-6.15 if it's an evening. He's very lovely when we return and is fine for about an hour, almost like a settling down process. Then it starts...


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

On a walk he's a different dog. Doesn't pull and walks to heel for the duration. Very responsive to checks and commands. He's alound the run of the downstairs while were there and the garden, when we're out he's confined to the kitchen where he sleeps without a fight or even barking.

The behaviourist is a professional and very firm, but he seems to respond to this in an instant. When trying to replicate her moves and commands he knows it's not her. She's a very slight lady and quite short, so it's not a physical thing, but she's a dog handler for the police and also is a trained firearms officer, so has a very commanding and assertive tone which stops him in his tracks.

She really is a marvel and each time she visits (only been twice) he picks up loads and has lots of new skills, it's just the mealtimes we can't control. He used to jump up a lot and "attack" visitors but now with a very firm and loud "DOWN" he hits the floor and lays there, he picked this up off her in 10 mins. Apparently she says he's very intelligent and a very easy dog to train, not comparable to most of hers which are Labs and she said have been nightmares in themselves!


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> OK, but how do we train him out of it? What methods? He just barks and makes it impossible to ignore him. Especially when he jumps on the sofa and bites your hand. Is shutting out the way to go? Just to break the cycle?
> 
> He's left from 7.30-2.30 if it's a morning or 2.00-6.15 if it's an evening. He's very lovely when we return and is fine for about an hour, almost like a settling down process. Then it starts...


Sorry but I have to go now.
Time out is a good idea but sometimes you could distract him by having a training session, or do this before you settle down, this should have two results, one to tire him and stimulate him mentally and the other to enhance his training.

Goodvic.
I disagree, this is normal Goldie behaviour, when given the chance 
They love their people and need to be with them and this can sometimes cause problems


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

rona said:


> Sorry but I have to go now.
> Time out is a good idea but sometimes you could distract him by having a training session, or do this before you settle down, this should have two results, one to tire him and stimulate him mentally and the other to enhance his training.
> 
> Goodvic.
> ...


Boy am I glad to see that bit!

Any further tips on what to do at mealtimes and what we're doing wrong. I don't doubt for one minute it's out own poor methods!


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> On a walk he's a different dog. Doesn't pull and walks to heel for the duration. Very responsive to checks and commands. He's alound the run of the downstairs while were there and the garden, when we're out he's confined to the kitchen where he sleeps without a fight or even barking.
> 
> The behaviourist is a professional and very firm, but he seems to respond to this in an instant. When trying to replicate her moves and commands he knows it's not her. She's a very slight lady and quite short, so it's not a physical thing, but she's a dog handler for the police and also is a trained firearms officer, so has a very commanding and assertive tone which stops him in his tracks.
> 
> She really is a marvel and each time she visits (only been twice) he picks up loads and has lots of new skills, it's just the mealtimes we can't control. He used to jump up a lot and "attack" visitors but now with a very firm and loud "DOWN" he hits the floor and lays there, he picked this up off her in 10 mins. Apparently she says he's very intelligent and a very easy dog to train, not comparable to most of hers which are Labs and she said have been nightmares in themselves!


Can you not put him in a down while you eat?


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> Boy am I glad to see that bit!
> 
> Any further tips on what to do at mealtimes and what we're doing wrong. I don't doubt for one minute it's out own poor methods!


You sound as if you are doing a brilliant job, don't put yourself down.
Goldies are very intelligent dogs, my last one had me properly trained


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Thing is, he's beautiful and I think we underestimate how lucky we are with him being silent at nights and doesn't chew a thing, even now he's teething!

The down thing lasts until we sit back down then he's up again. It only works if you stand over him which makes eating difficult!

It's mainly my fault I think as I don't have any patience whatsoever!


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

Then shut him out!!!!!
I really have to go now


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

LOL, don't let me stop you, thanks for the advice!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

t0mbop said:


> LOL, don't let me stop you, thanks for the advice!


I agree with everything that Rona has said and yes if he wont stay in a down unless you are stood over him then put him out either in the kitchen or the garden and YOU have time out!! They are a loving breed and will ask for sometimes MORE than you want to give them and will push that factor with their cute angelic expressions, you have to be a little bit firm and show him you are boss, if you do this now you will have a lovely family pet in later years. You just need to set the ground rules now.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

You're so right, whenever we're firm he does this looking under his eyes thing at us and you just want to cuddle him...

Then he nips you in the ear and off it goes again


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

t0mbop said:


> You're so right, whenever we're firm he does this looking under his eyes thing at us and you just want to cuddle him...
> 
> Then he nips you in the ear and off it goes again


I think that sums it up.... He is too cute, they know what we really mean. Sometimes we give a command, but do we really mean it??? They know the difference. I guess the reason why the behaviourist had so much success is because she is assertive, calm and resolute in what she wants to achieve.

If meal times are your biggest problem, then put him out in the kitchen. If he barks then ignore him. Alternatively practice having him in the room whilst eating and when he plays up, put him for time out for a few minutes. He will soon learn but it will prob take a while and if you are not a particuarly patient person, then it maybe best to put him out.

I hate to say it, but because you have rewarded him for his behaviour with the number one incentive - food, you now have to go about breaking that habit.

Have you read any of Cesar Milan's books? If you liked your behaviourist and she is like Cesar then have a read. I have both his books and find them very informative.

Don't beat yourself up, sounds like you are doing a great job x


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

t0mbop said:


> You're so right, whenever we're firm he does this looking under his eyes thing at us and you just want to cuddle him...
> 
> Then he nips you in the ear and off it goes again


So now you know you have to switch off to the 'cute' look and be firm with him, with a golden they dont take long as they are quite submissive and are easily trained, out of all the breeds here they pretend to be the dullest but are by far the most intelligent and adaptable.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Ok so tonights the night, I'm going to attempt the shut-out-and-ignore operation and try and put that loud window-rattling bark out of my head when we have dinner.

My question is this, when I go to grab hold of him to put him out, he dodges and becomes worse and starts snapping at my fingers, my guess is he thinks it's a game? What would be the most calm and beneficial way to do this so he knows I mean business. Sometimes when I've tried putting him out it looks like Dog cruelty as he's a big dog and I have to fashion all sorts of ways of grabbing him and pulling him out?!


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Firstly do not chase, it becomes a game. You must stay very calm and in control. No shouting, no conversation.

When he acts up, stand up and calmly walk towards him, then point at the door. He will understand what you mean, but may choose go ignore you. It depends on the control you have over your dog as to whether this will work or not.

If you do not think this will work, then put a lead on him. That way you can stand on it if he tries to evade you.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

It doesn't have to seem like a punishment for him, just time out, so give him a treat or kong in the kitchen while you eat.
He is still very young, you probably won't have to do this for too long before he grows out of this stage.
I know exactly how it can be with Goldies, they get under your skin and can make you feel sooo guilty for doing something that most dogs would except without question.
Just a silly question but, are you feeding him enough?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

We've recently encountered an issue with eating, he's lost his appetite a bit. He eats but not as fiercely as he once did. The vet recently saw him and said he was fine (2 weeks ago) and doing great, and to cut his meals down from 4 a day to 3 a day. But when we feed him he doesn't seem overly interested. He used to clear the bowl in seconds now he'll do it in 2 or 3 sittings over the space of half an hour or so.

We just put it down to the heat to be honest, he looks like he struggles more in the heat?


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

So he's not going after the food, just attention?
Have you been giving him treats or left overs?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Neither to be honest. At mealtimes he used to be uncontrollably excited (his mealtimes that is) and would almost eat through the bowl to the floor.

Nowadays he seems to have a take it or leave it approach. When we put it down he might take a few mouthfuls then trot off outside or in the dining room and do something else.

That said, his teeth are all falling out recently so he can't be having much fun with that, and also he has had a lot of treats, i.e. Jumbones, bones, biscuits to try and keep him quiet.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

I'm going to sound like a right nag here :blushing: but his meals are very important to him in this development stage, if he is not eating because of the treats, then these should be cut down.
When you first get a puppy, they have usually been used to a bit of competition from litter mates at feeding time so they eat quite fast, after a while an intelligent dog will work out that they don't have to eat that way any more.
My boy is very food orientated but eats every morsel of food as if he is savouring it, chews every mouth full


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

Rona's already given great advice so will just add....



> We've recently encountered an issue with eating, he's lost his appetite a bit. He eats but not as fiercely as he once did.


If he's teething and you feed kibble, then this is likely to be the cause - you could always try softening it for him, although I never bother as they grow out of it soon enough.



> when I go to grab hold of him to put him out, he dodges and becomes worse and starts snapping at my fingers,


Can you not call him out? I would do it without even touching him. If not, then simply put his lead on and take him out.

What you need to aim for is for him to succeed every time you ask something of him - do it consistently and he will learn. What you want to avoid, and it seems to be the case, is a battle of wills.

I notice you say he has a lot of FTCH in his pedigree, so he is a working goldie. He is likely to be high drive and nothing like the show/pet goldies. That extra energy and intelligence would benefit from channelling to as he gets older. Do you take him to classes?


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

I think you need to 'pretend' to have dinner or lunch to train him to behave while you are eating. 

Seriously,try training him out. Pretend you're going to eat and call him into the kitchen and tell him to sit and stay. Leave him in there for like 5 minutes or so and then go back to him and praise him and give him a treat. increase the time gradually and hopefully hey presto you'll have a dog who knows how to behave while you eat 

Hope i've not given bad advice. LOL


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Ok will cut down on the treats. 

He doesn't have a lot of energy, as I've said walks are often quite slow and laboured towards the end, but he's fine in himself just a little lazy. 

Also he doesn't stay, the distance is usually inches before he jumps after you. He's also seeing a trainer, a professional police dog handler and local gundog trainer, for those new people posting on this thread. She's made miles of progress with him but I'm not a professional and lack all her skills, he knows it!

He won't go out of the room when I tell him. If I point to the door and say "OUT" he goes quiet, but only for a matter of seconds. He learnt this the other day when we did try shutting him out, I think we gave up prematurely though thinking that pointing and "OUT" would work, but he's caught on!

It's definitely a battle of wills, but as a responsible pet owner I don't want to instill any bad natures in his character when he becomes older. I guess I'm scared of being firm for risk of making him aggressive when he's older. I've had no experience with dogs so am very new to all this! I think I'm being firm but obviously not enough.

I give up very easily. I don't want to start dragging him out of rooms and shutting him away only to make him worse. I'm guessing I'm hoping I'll just go home and he'll be ok, but never seems to happen!


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> as I've said walks are often quite slow and laboured towards the end, but he's fine in himself just a little lazy.


How old is he?


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> He won't go out of the room when I tell him. If I point to the door and say "OUT" he goes quiet, but only for a matter of seconds. He learnt this the other day when we did try shutting him out, I think we gave up prematurely though thinking that pointing and "OUT" would work, but he's caught on!


It sounds more like he simply hasn't learnt what you are asking him to do.

Having read your posts, it would appear that you are putting human emotions on dog training. I'm sorry, I'm not explaining it very well, and it probably sounds like I am getting at you, which I'm not at all, but it sounds like you are expecting the dog to understand what you want rather than training him to do as you want.



> The dog trainer lady broke him in minutes when we emulated a meal last week, however it seems without someone there to compound these commands we are vulnerable when sitting down/eating and he can sense this.


Going back to your first post above, I am sure your trainer is good with dogs (although I don't think any dog should be broken), but it's not enough for them to handle your dog, they need to teach YOU how to teach your dog. You obviously have a bright working goldie, who will, if left to his own devices, make up his own rules. I don't want to put you off your trainer, but I think it may help to look for a trainer that offers positive, reward based training and go to classes. Something like clicker trainer would be beneficial. It's all about positive training and it teaches the handler about the importance of timing and reward when training.

You should be able to find someone here

http://www.apdt.co.uk/local_dog_trainers.asp


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

I see what you're saying but the training lady does help him, and in 2 1hr sessions at our house (which is where he's a pain!) it's ideal and he's picked up loads, it's just difficult for us to pick this information up from her, as we don't seem to do it right.

She's very open and tells us all what to do and sits with us while we do it, and while she's there he's great and we think "WOW, We've done it!". But then she goes and the next day he realises, and plays us up. We've tried another reward based puppy trainer but they were useless and couldn't hold a conversation let alone train a dog. After 3 weeks we gave up as he was getting nowhere.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> But then she goes and the next day he realises, and plays us up.


I'm sorry, I'm only emphasising it because you don't appear to have understood. He's not playing up, he's only a puppy (I've just noticed he's 5 months old).

I would also add, that a puppy that is slow and laboured at the end of a walk is not being lazy and I would be a little concerned about either the length of walk he is getting and/or his health.

I can only repeat that it is YOU that the trainer should be teaching, not the dog, and if they are doing that then great, but it's not working and I am reading a lot of misunderstanding about how a dog learns in your posts, which is why I cannot understand why the trainer is not explaining this to you.


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## HighlandQuine (Mar 23, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> I see what you're saying but the training lady does help him, and in 2 1hr sessions at our house (which is where he's a pain!) it's ideal and he's picked up loads, it's just difficult for us to pick this information up from her, as we don't seem to do it right.
> 
> She's very open and tells us all what to do and sits with us while we do it, and while she's there he's great and we think "WOW, We've done it!". But then she goes and the next day he realises, and plays us up. We've tried another reward based puppy trainer but they were useless and couldn't hold a conversation let alone train a dog. After 3 weeks we gave up as he was getting nowhere.


I can totally relate to what you're saying. When we go to training class with Bailey and if he's pulling or being a pain, whatever it is, the trainer will take the lead and Bailey responds perfectly, he gives the lead back to us and he's a nightmare again.

The trainer says it's because we don't say it like we mean it or my tone of voice is wrong but I don't know how else to do it! It's really frustrating and annoying and embarassing when he does it fine for the trainer but not for us!


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Dundee said:


> I would also add, that a puppy that is slow and laboured at the end of a walk is not being lazy and I would be a little concerned about either the length of walk he is getting and/or his health. you.


I agree, if he is tired at the end of the walk then you either need to shorten the walks a little or get him checked out. It is not normal for a puppy to be slow unless the walks too long or he's not well.

If you want to give him treats, if he is fed dry then take a ration of his meals to use as treats.

I just noticed what you said about him only staying down if you are standing over him?? this is because you haven't taught him it properly. He thinks that Down means him to lie down while you are standing next to him. You need to practice it all over the place, otherwise it's not really a very good Down. if you taught him to lie down wherever he is, no matter how close you are or standing up, then it might be easier to have him in the room.

If it was me, I would have the dog in its bed while I was eating. Mine are beggers so whenever i am easing they are in their crate with a chew.

I don;t think the dog being fed before you will make him dominant, infact it might be a good idea to feed him at the same times as you, so if he is out the room he doesn't see it as a punishment. my dog has a treat ball, I don;t use it now but when she was an only dog and I was cooking my dinner I would put her dinner in the treat ball and it took her a good while to get it all out.

x


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Sorry Dundee it's me not understanding!

His health is fine, he has monthly checks and as previously mentioned has just been in the early part of this month and been given the all-clear. If we take him to the woods which is 2-3 times a week he'll run to the end (usually just over an hour or so) but when we take him round the block twice a day (around half an hour) he gets bored towards the end and just sort of gets distracted and stops and sniffs more, that's probably a better way of explaining it, whereas the outset is very jolly and direct and forward moving, toward the end he's more distracted and more interested in the floor... boredom?

Thanks for understanding how embarassing it is to be shown up by a trainer. She does tell us everything we need to know but we're obviously not doing it right. She says exactly the same thing, it's people that need training not the Dog. Obviously the dog is just a damn site quicker than us at picking it up! I don't think we're consistent or firm in the right way hence all our problems, as we all know the theory isn't always the same in practise but in this case it needs to be, and that's what we're trying to learn. All these points make complete sense and give me a renewed confidence, however upon returning home I suspect it will all go out of the window and that's not the dog's fault.

Also, yes, I agree. I have no understanding as to how a dog works and admitted this earlier in the thread. The 4 books we have on Golden Retrievers (2 of which lengthly) obviously didn't prepare us sufficiently!


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

I think your dog is bored with his walks, when I went to pick up my boy from his previous owner, I thought there was something wrong with him as we went for a short walk and on the way back he did exactly as you are saying yours does, but once back inside the house he played excitedly with toys.
Your trainer doesn't sound good to me either, I just didn't want to say anything until we had a bit more detail.
What kind of stimulation is your dogs getting?
I really think that you will get there with the right help, you are obviously a caring owner.
Do you play retrieving games? not just throwing a ball but making him search for an item


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> Ok will cut down on the treats.
> 
> He doesn't have a lot of energy, as I've said walks are often quite slow and laboured towards the end, but he's fine in himself just a little lazy.
> 
> ...


You do seem to be treating everything negatively most experiences that a young pup has should be positive.
Are you sure your trainer is good!!!!!!!
Don't forget that you are dealing with a puppy, compare him to handling a six year old child


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Personally, id steer clear of any trainer that specialises in working dogs. The way police and gundogs are trained, is very different to how a pet dog should be trained.

Training should be a fun experience and a dog shouldnt be ruled by fear and punishment. Id get a new trainer if i were you, someone who is able to use various methods.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> Personally, id steer clear of any trainer that specialises in working dogs. The way police and gundogs are trained, is very different to how a pet dog should be trained.
> 
> Training should be a fun experience and a dog shouldnt be ruled by fear and punishment. Id get a new trainer if i were you, someone who is able to use various methods.


I agree.

I think that with working dogs, what they are bred to do becomes their reward - for instance, a GSD is likely to be motivated by the opportunity to bite (I'm talking "working" biting, not eating the children) and a Springer, say, is going to be motivated by the chance to dive into a bush.

With pet dogs, they aren't necessarily driven enough by what you're actually going to allow them to do (with most pet dogs, you aren't going to WANT them to have the sort of high drive which often makes training easier) and the techniques need to match your lifestyle and circumstances.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> I agree.
> 
> I think that with working dogs, what they are bred to do becomes their reward - for instance, a GSD is likely to be motivated by the opportunity to bite (I'm talking "working" biting, not eating the children) and a Springer, say, is going to be motivated by the chance to dive into a bush.
> 
> With pet dogs, they aren't necessarily driven enough by what you're actually going to allow them to do (with most pet dogs, you aren't going to WANT them to have the sort of high drive which often makes training easier) and the techniques need to match your lifestyle and circumstances.


While I agree almost totally with your post, this is a working bred Goldie


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Quite obviously I've been unclear.

Our trainer is brilliant and he's at his most content and happy when she's around. We managed to sit and have a meal together, 5 of us with him resting against her leg with his tail wagging in complete content.

She has 7 pet dogs, all labradors, 4 of which are NOT working dogs they are family pets. They are great and obedient and think the world of her, it's heartwarming to watch.

Even our Alfie loves her, she's the only one he wants to spend time with when she's around, and he responds to her commands. She's taught him to leave things alone on the coffee table (previously he'd take things and run off) he leaves them totally alone now. She's taught him "bed" whereas before he hated it, now he readily enters and waits for his gate to be closed.

Obviously I've described her wrong and it's come across the wrong way. She's a superb trainer and knows what she's doing, which is more than we can say for us! She's reward based and after her visits there are marked improvements.

I'm struggling to see what I've written that is wrong!


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

t0mbop (sorry, don't know your name).

I have working gundogs, and they certainly are a different kettle of fish to the show/pet dogs of the same breed. Where abouts are you? and where did you get your pup? Feel free to pm me rather than putting it on the forum, but if you can let me know I will try to find point you in the direction of someone that could help you with your lad. I agree with working trainers, they are not used to training pets and family members. If you wanted a working gundog, then fine, but that is not what you want. There are some that are good at both, so don't despair, but if you can pm me the details, I'll see what I can do.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Sounds like she is training your dog, whereas you should be, with her guidance.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> Quite obviously I've been unclear.
> 
> Our trainer is brilliant and he's at his most content and happy when she's around. We managed to sit and have a meal together, 5 of us with him resting against her leg with his tail wagging in complete content.
> 
> ...


It has just sounded as if you think you have to force him to do anything that he doesn't want to do rather than encourage him to obey


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> Even our Alfie loves her, she's the only one he wants to spend time with when she's around, and he responds to her commands.


The problem is that Alfie is not her dog.... I'm going to stick my neck out here and say she should be having the absolute minimum interaction with him anyway if she is training you to train him. I'm only pressing this point as I can see this turning into a disaster. He's only a puppy atm so there is plenty of time to get there, but not the way you seem to be going. Can you pm me where you are? and the breeder of your pup.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

I know the lines of this pup and he is not a working bred as such he has working lines in him but the most recent are not working lines.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Dundee said:


> The problem is that Alfie is not her dog.... I'm going to stick my neck out here and say she should be having the absolute minimum interaction with him anyway if she is training you to train him. I'm only pressing this point as I can see this turning into a disaster. He's only a puppy atm so there is plenty of time to get there, but not the way you seem to be going. Can you pm me where you are? and the breeder of your pup.


Yep I agree. Good as she may be, she needs to be teaching you how to make your dog want to be with YOU, not her 

What sort of "homework" has she set you, so that next time he ignores her in favour of you?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

I have been instructed to shut him in a time-out for a few minutes to calm the situation, then to let him re-enter and continue what we were doing. We gave this up thinking we were clever - our fault.

She got us to invite him to do things, such as leave a plate on the side of the counter and wait for him to jump up (he tries to steal plates from your hands, hot ones which will hurt him and us!) then when he does jump up to firmly give a "NO", to which he now sits down. When he barks we were told to give a firm "NO" and if persists give another time out.

He's improving in leaps and bounds, we're the let down.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

t0mbop said:


> I have been instructed to shut him in a time-out for a few minutes to calm the situation, then to let him re-enter and continue what we were doing. We gave this up thinking we were clever - our fault.
> 
> She got us to invite him to do things, such as leave a plate on the side of the counter and wait for him to jump up (he tries to steal plates from your hands, hot ones which will hurt him and us!) then when he does jump up to firmly give a "NO", to which he now sits down. When he barks we were told to give a firm "NO" and if persists give another time out.
> 
> He's improving in leaps and bounds, we're the let down.


Dont feel like this he is testing the water and testing you as well, keep up with what she tells you and I agree the time out with him sounds the way forward, every dog is different and she is on hand to help you - we try to give advise BUT we are doing it with words through a computer screen. Sit back, listen to what you are told, try it for yourselves, believe in yourselves and most of all enjoy your pup.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

From all you have written here, it really doesn't sound as if you have any major problems.
Being a little inconsistent is a fault of all of us except professional trainers, it is so difficult to be perfect when we are trying to live our normal lives.
Your dog is still a puppy, and sounds as if he is doing very well.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

t0mbop said:


> I have been instructed to shut him in a time-out for a few minutes to calm the situation, then to let him re-enter and continue what we were doing. We gave this up thinking we were clever - our fault.
> 
> She got us to invite him to do things, such as leave a plate on the side of the counter and wait for him to jump up (he tries to steal plates from your hands, hot ones which will hurt him and us!) then when he does jump up to firmly give a "NO", to which he now sits down. When he barks we were told to give a firm "NO" and if persists give another time out.
> 
> He's improving in leaps and bounds, we're the let down.


Thing is.... it's all very negative, isn't it? And correcting behaviour doesn't really tell him what you'd like to do instead 

PS please don't keep blaming yourselves...


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

It's difficult to outline "minutes" from the sessions like they're meetings. It's very positive, i.e. when he chews our hands she's taught him to stop and replace with a toy etc.

Ultimately it's up to us what we want from our dog. We told her this, she's acting on what we told us. He's listening, taking it in and learning from her. We're the ones not picking it up and that have a lack of patience.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> He's listening, taking it in and learning from her. We're the ones not picking it up and that have a lack of patience.


Well I guess there you have the answer 

Dog training is not easy. Puppies don't come trained or understand English. Think of it like this, you have an animal (with limited intelligence) that has to come into different environment and has to behave in ways that are totally unnatural to them and they don't speak the language.

If you want to understand the key to the way dog work, then read Jean Donaldson's - The Culture Clash. In fact, if there was only one dog book anyone ever read, this would be it.

Good Luck


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Please don't become despondent of your ability.
Your trainer comes into your home, your dog doesn't know this person, so is more responsive, partly due to the experience of the trainer but also partly due to to the fact that he is unsure.
I don't know how many people I have met that get upset at the fact that their dog behaves around a knowledgeable stranger and reverts to normal once they have gone.
I must admit from your later posts, your trainer sounds ok  and you are obviously happy with her


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Dundee said:


> Well I guess there you have the answer
> 
> Dog training is not easy. Puppies don't come trained or understand English. Think of it like this, you have an animal (with limited intelligence) that has to come into different environment and has to behave in ways that are totally unnatural to them and they don't speak the language.
> 
> ...


I absolutely 100% agree that The Culture Clash should be made compulsory for anyone who has anything to do with dogs to read.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Ok, did the frozen kong test last night and shut him in his bedroom area. He was quiet for about 10 minutes while he ploughed through the Kong.

He'd just about finished it and started this awful barking noise, I thought he'd hurt himself! He was ok just I think realised that he'd been "stitched up!".

Also last night I tried the calmly escort him out of the room. 9/10 times it worked! Last night I spent a pleasant evening with my puppy alone in the living room watching TV. Never done this before.

Progress? I must admit calmly escorting him out of the room works wonders rather than chasing and dragging him out in a fight!


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Way to go :thumbup::thumbup:
A lot of the time with Goldies, negotiation is better than confrontation


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Hi, glad you are making progres! 
Just wanted to add that before you said grabbing his collar made him snap, try leaving a lead on him that you can just pick up if you need to.

We had to do this with a foster collie she would get herself on the couch and you couldn't go near her collar!

xx


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

It's only a small victory, but it's one night out of seven where it wasn't hell, which is an improvement. The next step is to be able to eat where we like, on the sofa, up the table and not have him attack us and pull food off the table. This is where he's at his worst.

I agree that as a puppy he needs to be entertained, that's fine. But surely it must get to a point as a dog owner where you can do what you want, eat where you want in the house without getting attacked. Although shutting him away made him quiet while I was eating as he was preoccupied, I don't like having to shut him away and don't want to have to do it all the time, surely isn't there a way to get him to calm down with us.

Or is that just a puppy thing?


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

It's a puppy thing, once you have sorted out your training a little more and he has grown up a little more, he should be able to join you, it's a temporary measure to stop the cycle of him playing up and you getting annoyed


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Good good, I'd love him to just sit beside us and have a chew or toy or play or whatever, ironically like he did when we first got him! I'm concerned something we've done has sent him backwards into this state he gets in at our teatime?

I'm looking forward to having him spend all the time he can with us and chilling out when we do!


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Just think of him as a naughty teenager, he'll grow out of it.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

How's it gone this evening?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Overall behaviour was excellent. Didn't attack the 2 visitors we had and just layed down to receive attention when they came in. Mealtime weren't as good as yesterday, the frozen kong lasted literally 2 minutes before he realised we'd gone, and he barked until we'd finished tea which was about 1/2hr later.

So quote annoying from that aspect, anything else I could do?


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> Overall behaviour was excellent. Didn't attack the 2 visitors we had and just layed down to receive attention when they came in. Mealtime weren't as good as yesterday, the frozen kong lasted literally 2 minutes before he realised we'd gone, and he barked until we'd finished tea which was about 1/2hr later.
> 
> So quote annoying from that aspect, anything else I could do?


I think you just have to persevere he's an intelligent dog, it will stop I'm sure. He just has to get used to the new routine. surely it's better than being jumped on all the time while eating, and it isn't for long.
I think the key is to make the actual exit into the room you shut him in a pleasant experience because if it's seen as a battle or punishment, it probably won't work as well.
Can he see you when you eat?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

No, but he could no doubt hear us. I dished our tea up and he barked so I time-out'ed him for 30 secs then he came back in and layed down, then as my partner walked through with the plates he went to jump her (obviously this could be VERY dangerous for all parties involved with hot food!) so I corrected him and gave him his kong in his pen. He went mad for it and I made him sit and wait.

After I gave him the kong he chased it around, we could hear him, then it went quiet and the barking started. It remained this way until we went through to him after we'd finished. The kong was barely touched in the end and he finished it off in the dining room afterwards.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

Sounds quite promising, can you put him where he can see you? It might stop the barking and may get the desired results quicker


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Can't really as theres nothing to stop him getting us then! The kitchen is L shaped and he's in the corner bit so he can't see us.

I thought it would be worse if he could see us but couldn't get to us? Only other thing is to put him on the lead and tie it to something, but with his strength I can't think of anything strong enough to hold him back effectively!?


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

I don't think tying up is a good idea, to much like punishment.
I just thought that if he could see you eating then he would get used to being at a distance while you eat rather than just learning to settle in another room.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

No neither do I, but it was just a thought.

Anyway, update! We've just had tea and decided to follow rona's advice of being in sight. Didn't go well, he ignored his kong and his jumbone that we put in with him and just barked, so reluctantly we let him out. He took his jumbone and ate it and left us in peace in the dining room!

It's sort of success but I can't help but think it's conditioning of some sort in so much as he get's what he wants. The problem is, he eats a jumbone a damn sight quicker than we eat our tea, so afterwards he comes for us, and the fun starts again!

It's going to cost us a fortune in jumbones at this rate and not only that give us bad indigestion. I really think he's just going to have to be shut away at teatimes and the doors closed to drown out the barking.

I really want him to stop this and just lay with us at tea time. He's got countless toys and bones but they don't interest him when our food is around!

Any further ideas/tips?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Anything further from anyone regarding the above?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Sorry, when is it you feed him again, before or after your own tea?

Personally, I would have put up with the barking in this instance as to me, he wanted out and he got out! He was barking for your attention, and he got your attention, and a jumbone too!

Rupert (also a golden) fell into this habit, do you ever/have you ever fed tit bits, bits of food from the table/plates?

I'd be tempted to try Rona's advice again, put him out of site in the corner part of your kitchen, he will be aware you are eating your tea, but pretend you can't hear his barks, totally ignore him, I know its soooooooo difficult but give it a go. He will bark like crazy, because last time when he barked he got let out, so he may go at it even more. I'm not too sure otherwise, will have a think. I can't really remember what I did with Roo, we got stuck in a rut with it, and in the end I started feeding him before we ate. We eat about 7-8pm, and he now gets fed about 5.30pm, way earlier than our tea so he doesn't associate it with him eating first. I think for him, he genuinely was hungry and didn't understand why he couldn't eat, he will lie on the floor half asleep when we eat now, I think he was just too young to understand it. Now he is this bit older, I can feed him after we eat, like at weekends when I am not at work, and he doesn't bat an eyelid. I can tell when he is hungry though as he gets impatient and paces up and down the kitchen/garden while we eat.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Never, never ever gave him bits off our plates. We've been really strong in some instances with Alfie, as we don't want him to develop bad habits. Last night we didn't try and shut him away just gave him a rawhide bone when we had tea and he ignored us completely, it's the first time in a long while he's done that. Perhaps he needs to be distracted all the time?

He's seeing our trainer Sunday night and going out with her dogs to practise some recall and to be put in his place a bit. Last night he was terrible with me. Jumping up, biting, barking constantly at anything everything. I'm concerned he's going to be like this as an adult dog? Should I be concerned? When do they start growing out of the most common puppy traits?

I understand they can be classed as a puppy for a while but when would these babyish and childish typical "puppy" traits start to drop off?

Also we feed him Purina Beta, I've seen some bad press directed at this recently on here, this likely to be a problem? Can anyone explain?


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## r_neupert (Jun 22, 2009)

There seems to be a lot of people who are very knowledgeable on dogs here, so not really worth me writing much, but anyway, my thoughts from having a problematic dog myself...

At the moment it seems to me like you're avoiding the incident happening by putting the pup somewhere else or entertaining it with something.

If this isn't working, try flipping it around and face the problem from a different view, let the puppy bark/bite etc, then let it know that the behaviour is unwanted whilst they're in the act. How is the dog supposed to know you don't like being bitten/barked at if they don't learn?

You'll have to find what works for your dog in the manner of saying "no" with a punch - i have a long list of things i tried, making the dog lay down and saying no, making a high pitched noise, making a hissing noise, waving a bottle filled with stones and finally (the only thing that worked for ours) squirting her with water.

Once you have addressed the negative behaviour with something they're not particularly keen on, reward any behaviour that is positive after it, i.e. dog looks sheepish and puts a sock in it for 5 minutes, cue kong! Yes it's not nice, and i wouldn't like to be squirted in the face with water if i spoke at dinner, but what can you do... 

Anyway, feel free to tell me that's an awful idea - i have had a lot of success with my little horror through doing the above, but different for every dog i guess.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

The problems with aversives such as water sprays etc. are:

They aren't exactly kind
They don't encourage your dog to trust you
They don't actually teach your dog what you DO want it to do
They suppress the behaviour as opposed to change it
The dog can get overexcited by them/see them as a game
The dog may become fearful or aggressive

It is better to teach a behaviour which is incompatible with the behaviour you don't want.

For instance, a dog cannot jump up while it is sitting. So for a dog who jumps up for attention, you need to teach a really strong "sit for attention" and then his first response to excitement and wanting attention will be to sit rather than jump up.

I admit to using a water pistol on my dog who used to bark like mad at my friend's rabbit when we visited. She still lies and stares at said bunny but doesn't bark, which is fine by me. We don't live there. BUT I was in the position of being able to squirt her when she couldn't see me - she has no idea it was me. As far as she is concerned, it starts to rain every time she barks at the rabbit. If I couldn't have done it without her seeing me, I wouldn't have; it is important to me that she sees me as the source of all things good rather than negative.

So yes, aversives can and do work; but you have to be careful and the fact is that positive methods in most cases work even better, they "stick" better and are more ethical.


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## r_neupert (Jun 22, 2009)

Agreed on the negatives - however i'd much rather squirt my dog and her learn a particular action has negative effects and good behaviour gets reward. Just want to stress the reward part again, as i wouldn't use negative conditioning without positive reinforcement. It has literally revolutionised her behaviour - i used to sit on the sofa and she'd pull blankets out from underneath me or pull all the clean washing off the dryer, the list went on. She's literally stopped all of these stunts now. It hasn't had an adverse effect either - she'll happily have a shower or get into the lake and wade.

If it were a case of hitting her when she was bad, or using one of those electric shock collars, i would be with you 100%. But the fact is, it does not hurt her, it gives her a little suprise. I haven't actually used the bottle for a number of months, as it's squashed all the problems i used to have. We don't have trust issues with her either, infact i think it's helped establish a pecking order better.

So i guess in summary, it has worked for my dog, and i wish i'd have clocked onto it months ago, rather than suffer for ages!


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

I tried squirting him with water but he just jumps through it and gets worse. I hope it's just a puppy thing but he's really starting to hurt now. He bit my hand and rolled over with it last night and bruised it and drew blood. When I said no he just kept jumping up me trying to get my hand.

Do I have an aggressive puppy?


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> I tried squirting him with water but he just jumps through it and gets worse. I hope it's just a puppy thing but he's really starting to hurt now. He bit my hand and rolled over with it last night and bruised it and drew blood. When I said no he just kept jumping up me trying to get my hand.
> 
> Do I have an aggressive puppy?


No just a confused one


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi,

As this is your first dog I would suggest you read up on how dogs learn and also familiarise yourself with the breed.

Basically dogs want to know 2 things in life, what works what doesn't work, and what's safe and what's dangerous. In order to do this they are continually seeking information and feedback. Your Golden R will always be checking you out to see how you respond to his behaviour, this is part of the learning process for him. So you and your partner need to be 100% consistent with reinforcing good behaviour and ignoring undesired behaviour. Inconsistency in training is a real cause for frustration and stress in dogs, which can manifest in many ways.

It may well be that by giving attention even the slightest bit of attention when this behaviour started, you have inadvertently reinforced it and it has now become a learned behaviour.

If you are to resolve this you will have to be patient, calm, and happy... if you're moody with him he will be uncertain and anxious with you, which can actually lead to excessive barking.

In fact, in general excessive barking is due to frustration/stress/boredom. So to resolve you need to treat the cause not the symptom.

The lady trainer is most likely giving him very clear consistent messages, so he is less frustrated, calm, and able to comply.

At 5 months your puppy (and don't forget he is still very much a puppy), will only need one 30 min walk a day. As a rule puppies should be walked 5 mins per month of life up to 12 months. The reason for this is that their bones are still growing, so you don't want him walking for too long at his young age.

What is more important at his age is psychological challenges and mental stimulation, so get him playing problem solving games etc.

I agree with what another member has said in that the lady trainer should actually be training you and showing you how to handle and train your pup.

The only way you will build a trusting bond with your dog is to train him and play games with him. Dogs learn a lot through playing and it's an important part of their daily life.

As for the barking. I would personally look at a positive training approach rather than correction/punishment with water spray etc. These punitive methods with only make him more frustrated and confused, probably more reactive.

I would look at clicker training, this positive, kind way of training allows you to effectively communicate with your dog to let him know what works and what doesn't work for you in the context of the human-canine social group and living environment.

Clicker training is easy to learn and apply, even young children can do it (supervised), it's scientific based training, but it's not rocket science.

Giving him a stuffed kong or his meal in a [treat dispenser toy] when you eat is not bribery. It is positive training, and it lets him know what works.

I will add that you will have to work on ignoring his barking, by ignoring I mean no eye contact, no verbal contact (to your dog speaking/raised voice is a form of contact/attention), no physical contact.

When he comes over get up move away and sit down again, repeat this, over and over, until he leaves you alone, as soon as he leaves you alone click and treat - clicker training.

To do this you may need to actually have a week or so of this training at meal times, so put your training head on, be calm, be consistent. Mealtimes now have a purpose (other than to eat), to train him that what works for you, is for him to leave you alone, and his reward is his stuffed kong or treat dispenser.

If you are consistent, patient, and calm, this will work.

Some reading for you:

About clicker training

How dogs learn

What dogs need

Why fair play is important

Dog training in 5 steps

Hope this helps


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Well thanks for that, some really sensible stuff there. It's so difficult to ignore him he's so loud, you can't hear yourself speak!

I agree I'm not calm, I'm a very stressed and up-tight person most of the time due to work stresses, and the dog's making it much worse at the minute which then makes it hard for me to be in trainy mode. You know the drill, you're tired and grumpy and you just want to sit down and have your tea and *BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK *...

I agree with a lot of what you say I really do. My concern with him is when we play he is great we have a game with balls/toys/bones but then from nowhere he snaps for your hand. You tell him NO. He pauses and jumps up and bites again, you tell him NO again and walk away.. he chases snapping at your fingers. What I'm trying to say is that it seems when he doesn't want to be disciplined no-one can stop him!

I feel sometimes I could reel the dictionary off at him and he'd continue to snap up at me. So, we've resorted to shutting him out for 2 mins or so, which 50% of the time calms him down, others he comes back worse, so when I re-attempt a shut-out he lays on the floor and refuses to be picked up biting all the time, not allowing me to remove him from the room.

What I'm trying to say that sometimes he seems intent on being disobedient and he's getting to a size and weight stage when he's not that easy to forceably stop or put-out if he doesn't want to go!


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## Matrix/Logan (May 7, 2009)

Logan (my 17 week old gsd pup) does this sometimes at the children and they have started keeping some of his food in their pockets so when he does it they can distract his crazy ness by getting him into a sit and rewarding with a piece of his food. He then forgets he was lunging at them and goes into 'school mode!!', it certainly is working and we have had a week now without this nutty lunging session!

I know it is hard i agree especially when you just want to chill but percevere and it will be rewarding for you all when he gets past this phase i can assure you, my last gsd was ''high maintenance'' but a fantastic companion for nearly 10 years after he 'grew up'' at around 14months old he became such a gentlemen and i realised all our hard work had definately been worth every second!


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2009)

I'm sorry. You have a Golden retriever, one of the easiest dogs to own.
People have given you endless information and advice, it sounds as if you have a good trainer and you still can't seem to put in the few weeks effort it would take to sort this out.
The dog didn't become this way on his own, he has been conditioned by you to behave this way, you now have to spend time and effort to change it.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

What you are describing sounds very much as if he is confused.

When you start any régime directed at changing behaviour, it is common for behaviour to get WORSE before it gets better. Remember that dogs do what works? Well, when something which has worked before suddenly stops working, they up the ante on the basis that it's always worked before.

Think of it this way... if the TV remote doesn't work, do you immediately think "oh, it doesn't work any more"? Unlikely. What usually happens is we push the buttons harder. And harder. We wave it around a bit more. And then sometimes it works again! So next time it stops working, we resume pressing the buttons harder and harder, because it worked before.... eventually, if it REALLY refuses to work, we replace the batteries.

Same with the dog. His behaviour has worked before, so when it stops working he isn't going to change overnight. He's going to try even harder for a while. Maybe try variations on his previous successful behaviour. It's called "extinction burst". Only if you are TOTALLY consistent will the previous behaviour peter out. In fact if you SOMETIMES reinforce the behaviour, it can become even stronger.

Again, put it this way. Think of a fruit machine. Do you win every time you put ten pence in?? Nope. But you keep feeding it because occasionally you are rewarded - and sometimes you are rewarded BIG time. And if you were rewarded every time, the buzz wouldn't be so great when you DID win!

Keep at it but make sure you are rigidly consistent and that the dog NEVER gets rewarded for the old behaviour. Teach him what new behaviour works


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

t0mbop said:


> Well thanks for that, some really sensible stuff there. It's so difficult to ignore him he's so loud, you can't hear yourself speak!
> 
> I agree I'm not calm, I'm a very stressed and up-tight person most of the time due to work stresses, and the dog's making it much worse at the minute which then makes it hard for me to be in trainy mode. You know the drill, you're tired and grumpy and you just want to sit down and have your tea and *BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK *...
> 
> ...


Dogs do pick up on our emotions, they are highly attuned in this way. If you are stressed, then this will make him feel unsure, anxious, and stressed too.

So I'm sorry to say, it is not the dog making things worse... I really don't mean to be harsh here, but you have to appreciate your emotions and moods directly affect your dog.

He is learning , not being disobedient.

From what you have just written, I would say that your dog is feeling very uncertain as to his place in your group, you are after all his family now, and he has to feel part of that.

If he senses (which he most definitely does) that you are often frustrated with him, then this will make him seem problematic. But the actual cause is, your emotions, your frustrations, your stress.

Just as these emotions can affect a human/human relationship, they can equally affect a human/canine relationship.

The decision to get a dog is a serious one and it comes with a lot of responsibility, in reality you're looking at 2 years of consistent training, even then there's ongoing maintenance of good behaviours.

Your pup needs a daily routine of training/walk/play/rest/feeding/toileting/sleep/mental stimulation, yeah it's like having a child in some ways (not that I'm comparing dogs to humans), your time is not entirely your own for a while, until they grow and learn and settle.

Please do read the links in my previous post.

Also for puppy nipping and biting you should read this, as telling him 'NO' does nothing, when be bites during play.

The Bite Stops Here


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2009)

How did it go last night?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

We went out for a meal so it's a void result. Today though we've had builders round tearing up our kitchen floor, and to our surprise he's been very good and for the most part uninterested.

This evening he's just been laying there at our feet entertaining himself. He seems very quiet and subdued which were putting down to the heat as it's particularly hot and humid here today. Had a long walk this morning to wear him out aswell.

We're trying the denial of attention approach and it's the first thing in a while that gets a reaction from him. He doesn't like being ignored and walked away from and it seems to strike a chord.

I appreciate what you're saying rona earlier with the easiest dog to train thing, but we've never had a dog before and no amount of reading books prepares you for the real thing, believe me, we've got 4 books on retrievers and you mentioned it yourself, one of the easiest to train which is why I voiced my concerns about him originally. I didn't want to be negligent and naive and put everything down to "being a puppy". If it is, then great!

What I'm saying is it's my job to ensure this dog turns out to be an adorable family pet, he relies on me and my partner and we have our faults, but if we're not capable which it seems we're not then we have to be told and learn, as it's not Alfie's fault he's the way he is, it's ours! We know this and accept this and are trying to change him.

So, the message is between me and my partner is to get up and leave the room if he's naughty. He responds to this more than "NO". We're also giving him entertainment toys at mealtimes to try and distract him, which I thought isn't a good idea but it's saving our indigestion and tethers at the moment!


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2009)

Whatever works is worth a try, but it has to be all the time, I'm glad that you are taking yourself away from him rather than trying to take him away, as that seemed to turn into a fight between the two of you. Hopefully, once you have broken the cycle of behaviour that has built up, you will be able to leave the distraction treats
Best of luck with him and let us know how you are getting on


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Thanks rona, you've been a big help. It's difficult because you get so many people giving you advice, some of those don't even own dogs. Things like tapping him on the nose, shouting, squirting with water, loud noises. All of these things are wrong, but on the flipside theres no 1 remedy. Theres many.

Finding one that works for your specific dog is the trick so I've learnt. Something else we're going to try is the placement of his toys. He has so many and they're all over the floor all day, we've learnt that he doesn't respect them this way or value them and just takes anything we leave on the floor too, I mean why shouldn't he? It's there like his things. So toys are going to be rationed and made special treats for training and games and then put away to signal the end of games. He will have 1 or 2 out all the time like chew toys but not the 15-20 bits and pieces he's got now!


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## r_neupert (Jun 22, 2009)

t0mbop said:


> Thanks rona, you've been a big help. It's difficult because you get so many people giving you advice, some of those don't even own dogs. Things like tapping him on the nose, shouting, squirting with water, loud noises. All of these things are wrong, but on the flipside theres no 1 remedy. Theres many.


Way to thank people....!! I went through the whole regime with my pooch, exactly how you are to find out what worked for her - i advised what helped for me.

People have given you A LOT of advice it's up to you to find a method that works and follow through, we can only try to help you find something. There's absolutely no need for that.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Wo wo wo, I've been misunderstood. By people giving me advice, I mean those in "real-life". Friends, people you meet, workmates. They all tell you old wives tales and such about how to get your dog doing what you want.

That's what I meant. I'm very grateful for all the advice EVERYONE has given me, it all has helped and I'm using parts of it all every day.

Don't get the hump it's something that was worded one way and taken another!


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## r_neupert (Jun 22, 2009)

Not getting the hump... it just seems a lot of people have taken a lot of time to give you advice. What you just said doesn't imply it was advice given outside the forum; infact you specifically mentioned something i said.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

In which case it's completely coincidental. Whether you believe that is your prerogotive. The advice I've been given off here has been great.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2009)

The best toy for highest value is nearly always a squeaky toy, maybe you could keep this for recall training or something equally difficult to maintain his concentration


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

t0mbop said:


> Something else we're going to try is the placement of his toys. He has so many and they're all over the floor all day, we've learnt that he doesn't respect them this way or value them and just takes anything we leave on the floor too, I mean why shouldn't he? It's there like his things. So toys are going to be rationed and made special treats for training and games and then put away to signal the end of games. He will have 1 or 2 out all the time like chew toys but not the 15-20 bits and pieces he's got now!


You're absolutely right, very good move, just leave 1 or 2 toys out and save the rest for play/train time together.

Part of what you're doing here is letting your dog know that you control access to the resources and activities. So access to these is contingent on his behaviour.

For example:

At mealtimes you request that he 'sit' and 'wait' before you put his bowl down

When getting ready to go out for walk, you request that he 'sit' while you attach leash, then 'sit', and 'wait' before going out the door

When playing, before you throw ball, request that he 'sit' then throw

Doing all of this, and similar everyday for all sorts of situations/event will build your leadership role in your dogs eyes.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Ok, so yesterday we went round to my trainers house to see her dogs and give Alfie some further training. At first he was a complete pain and would not leave the other dogs alone, whilst they seemed uninterested in him. After a while he started to come round to our way of thinking though, and before the session was out he was sitting and staying until recalled.

The odd way of dealing with this was by use of no command at all. Upon sitting we simply walk away then pause, then recall with relative success. When trying "WAIT" or "STAY" it simply sparks a reaction and he leaves the sit position to run off. He quickly gets bored and loses interest so we've been advised to do little and often. We've also been told that he's doing well and not to worry too much.

Apparently he's a little "evasive" as on some recalls he sees something else and runs off after it, luckily we were in an enclosed environment and could get him, but we were told this could be a mild concern, but a remedy is to start walking off rather than standing expecting him to return. This worked wonders as he was so concerned where we were going he planted himself by our side, and so we have a dog that recalls.

Today, much the same. He's been jumping up and biting us but despite the NO and walking off he's completely ignorant. We're still being conditioned by him in so much as that at teatime we're forced to give him a bone to keep him quiet. This is something I'd like to stop but I'd rather eat my tea in peace than get attacked at the moment so we'll see how it goes!
*
Thanks for the advice everyone*. Your thoughts/tips are appreciated.


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

Just read through all of this as I hadn't seen it before

Poor you you must be feeling really downhearted as every step forward seems to be accompanied by the inevitable backward one.

My impression (and I am not a trainer just own a bunch of dogs) is that Alfie is definitely picking up on your feelings of frustration at his behaviour and of course playing to it. I would almost suggest going away for a couple of days so you can get some sleep and peace and start with a clearer head 

A couple of people have mentioned the food you are feeding and it is worth looking at one of the ones that are known to be less likely to make your dog hyper like Burns, JWB, Naturediet.

I am also a little surprised at the number of Jumbones you give your dog - they are very high energy and may not be helping with his calm state of mind (my dogs get one very very occasionally and then only the mini size).

I noticed that there was a thread about home made treats, I think I would be inclined to look at making some of those - sticky but quite theraputic you know  as you then know exactly what is going in to the treats you are feeding and maybe use the treat toys that were suggested above as the distraction method, much like the kong.

Good luck, I can sympathise it is very very frustrating but in the scheme of things it will actually only be a short period out of the 12-14+ years you will have Alfie


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Well, finally, some good news!

We tried a lot with Alfie but he's very headstrong. Our trainer advised soft calm voices when we want him to do something and change it to a stern firm tone when we're telling him. This partially works and we've introduced a "noise-maker". After trying a pet correcter which ran out after an afternoon, he ran off with it and threw it over next doors garden, so much for teaching a dog respect. We also tried a plastic tub with stones in which he loved, in the sense he jumped up you to try and get it.

Last resort was a party air horn, like one of those things from a football match. It's great. We don't hold it anywhere near his ears but we've only actually sprayed it around 5-6 times in a week, just the sight of it makes him calm down and we seem to be enjoying a much better dog. The trainer has taught him lots more and he's now an excellent recall/sit/stay/down/paw/off kinda dog. A friend of mine who hadn't seen him for a couple of months popped in yesterday and Alfie jumped up once, then realised this doesn't get him attention so sat right down and received some attention that way.

I'd just like to say thanks for everyones help. It seems the problem was me and my negativity and weakness/worry. I've stopped the weakness and worrying and when I need to am being very hard/firm which he is now respecting and I'm enjoying more and more time with my puppy.

We're certainly not out of the woods yet, but theres not really been a step backwards for nearly 10 days, which for Alfie is amazing.

Fingers crossed!
*
Disclaimer: The method we use (air horn) IS loud, DO NOT under any circumstances ever use one of these near a dogs or indeed humans ears. A gentle quick burst in the air is plenty loud enough and hopefully your dogs like ours will respect the sight rather than the sound of such an item!*


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2009)

That's great news, Goldies are amazing dogs to share your life with, but puppyhood can be a little trying


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

I am glad that you are getting ahead with the training and things have improved

Onward and Upward


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## davehyde (Jul 13, 2009)

my gr was headstrong and nippy and wild until a bout 5 months old.

saying that he adored training tho. got 92% at his first test top of the class, rosette as well lol i digress.

i just kept plugging at it , distractions, behaviour altering, ignoring him totallt when he wants to be naughty.

but really praising when he was doing positive things.

gr's are a very intelligent animal and they are more able to train you than you them i think lol.

suddenly one day it will all click together and you'll think, blimey that was easy.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2009)

davehyde said:


> my gr was headstrong and nippy and wild until a bout 5 months old.
> 
> saying that he adored training tho. got 92% at his first test top of the class, rosette as well lol i digress.
> 
> ...


Good description of life with Goldies


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