# Your experience with diagnosing pyometra



## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi I recently posted re my girl returning from stud with a slight discharge - over the course of 2 weeks this hd changed from clear to bloody, the odd drop here and there. She has been on antibiotics for two weeks and is bright and eating well. This was her second trip to stud she came back into call five weeks after she was first mates. 

I am paranoid about pyometra and tempted just to tell the vet to spay - the vet isn't concerned as long as the cat is well in herself- she is suggesting waiting a couple of weeks as long as my girl remains well and then palpating for kittens- she says she has seen a healthy litter born after several weeks of spotting. Unfortunately she is a relatively new practise and doesn't have an ultra sound and she also stated that if it is an open pyo then an ultra sound is unlikely to show anything anyway? 
I just wondered if anyone else had experience with an open pyo and how it was diagnosed thanks


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Think I might consider a second opinion.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Think I might consider a second opinion.


I started phoning around this afternoon - I have only just changed vets after a bad experience last November and really liked this ladies experience . I would like a scan but this vet states in her opinion an ultrasound is only as good as the operator and most vets aren't experienced enough at using them - my only experience of ultrasound was when I was told my Tissue has a tumour and only had a couple of weeks to live - I had her another four years before she died from a stroke .


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Personally I would investigate further , queen can discharge a clear discharge during call and after mating , but as she has now got a bloody discharge while being in it indicates something else is going on 

Is the discharge smelly?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> She has been on antibiotics for two weeks


Which antibiotics? Could be a different AB would work - difficult if the right one is contra-indicated in pregnancy though.
I'm inclined towards the wait and see option in a way as you are very aware and watching her closely. I work to a real distinction between a 'simple' infection and a true pyo which to me is the result of a cat with cystic endometrial hyperplasia. The very term pyometra doesn't differentiate but I do. A cat with CEH will always be at risk so I'd spay whereas a cat can get an infection without CEH and that I'd treat. It is difficult to know without unltrasound but it would be difficult to make the diagnosis in a pregnant cat anyway.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> Personally I would investigate further , queen can discharge a clear discharge during call and after mating , but as she has now got a bloody discharge while being in it indicates something else is going on
> 
> Is the discharge smelly?


No not smelly at all - tbh if she wasn't such a mummy's baby and lap monster you would be hard pushed to notice it - I also feel that I should be having further investigations but my vet seems happy as long as my girl is fine - having lost all three of my moggies in the last 6 months my knee jerk action is just to get her spayed- my mentor says to be patient


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I would like a scan but this vet states in her opinion *an ultrasound is only as good as the operator* and most vets aren't experienced enough at using them


I agree with this. No harm in searching for the expertise you need but would 
definitely agree that having the equipment on site isn't the only thing you're looking for


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I agree with your mentor, while she is well let her be.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

havoc said:


> Which antibiotics? Could be a different AB would work - difficult if the right one is contra-indicated in pregnancy though.
> I'm inclined towards the wait and see option in a way as you are very aware and watching her closely. I work to a real distinction between a 'simple' infection and a true pyo which to me is the result of a cat with cystic endometrial hyperplasia. The very term pyometra doesn't differentiate but I do. A cat with CEH will always be at risk so I'd spay whereas a cat can get an infection without CEH and that I'd treat. It is difficult to know without unltrasound but it would be difficult to make the diagnosis in a pregnant cat anyway.


She is currently on clavaseptin - I have been doing a bit of reading about strep G and only antirobe being effective and wondered if it was worth a mention. What you say about an ultra sound at this point in time is exactly what the vet has said - difficult to tell whether kittens or changes in the uterus. I also asked about blood testing and was told I would likely get a raised white count from infection whether or not it is a pyo .


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> She is currently on clavaseptin


I've heard that Baytril can be more effective though I can understand your vet exercising caution. Although not contra-indicated in pregnancy I'd be wary and wanting to avoid risk for as long as possible and at least for the first three weeks (six if possible). At six weeks the kittens are fully formed so the risks are minimised.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Synulox also works, can be given during pregnancy and my girl needed 30 days of antibiotics.

An open pyo is better than a closed pyo, as the infection is coming out, whereas with closed pyo the uterus expands as there is nowhere to go.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> Synulox also works, can be given during pregnancy and my girl needed 30 days of antibiotics.
> 
> An open pyo is better than a closed pyo, as the infection is coming out, whereas with closed pyo the uterus expands as there is nowhere to go.


I remember you said synulox- the active ingredients in synulox are the same as clavaseptin just a different name I checked on Noah when they were prescribed


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

havoc said:


> I've heard that Baytril can be more effective though I can understand your vet exercising caution. Although not contra-indicated in pregnancy I'd be wary and wanting to avoid risk for as long as possible and at least for the first three weeks (six if possible). At six weeks the kittens are fully formed so the risks are minimised.


Probably because of the cartilage development risk, although it tends to be pups over 6 weeks of age who are most at risk and no adverse effects were reported in kittens during safety trials. :confused1:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I know this isnt answering your question,just thought id show it you as i saw this earlier,it gives you the symptoms.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...31111288.39439.146010752141616&type=1&theater

Hope your girl is well soon.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Probably because of the cartilage development risk, although it tends to be pups over 6 weeks of age who are most at risk and no adverse effects were reported in kittens during safety trials


We're talking about dosing a possibly pregnant mum, not kittens and the only info on the data sheet pointedly refers to testing only on pregnant rats.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Little update - now my vet is happy there are no kittens, and the discharge hasnt cleared completely with clavaseptin yet, we have had some swabs done which my vet was surprised to show pseudonomas bacteria - so we are off to collect a different antibiotic, possibly Baytril as mentioned previously or another that is effective against pseudonomas (although I am aware it can be hard to eradicate) the name of which escapes me. On the up side it is now thought unlikely it is a pyometra.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

havoc said:


> We're talking about dosing a possibly pregnant mum, not kittens and the only info on the data sheet pointedly refers to testing only on pregnant rats.


Sorry I never even saw your reply till just now!

I tend to use Marbocyl over Baytril.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Shoshannah said:


> Sorry I never even saw your reply till just now!
> 
> I tend to use Marbocyl over Baytril.


Thank you thats the one  I was taking in so much info over the phone that I couldnt remember the name just that is sounded like marbles ! off in a minute to pick it up.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

wicket said:


> Little update - now my vet is happy there are no kittens, and the discharge hasnt cleared completely with clavaseptin yet, we have had some swabs done which my vet was surprised to show pseudonomas bacteria - so we are off to collect a different antibiotic, possibly Baytril as mentioned previously or another that is effective against pseudonomas (although I am aware it can be hard to eradicate) the name of which escapes me. On the up side it is now thought unlikely it is a pyometra.


Well pleased you are getting her sorted with the correct meds

What causes pseudonimas ??


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> Well pleased you are getting her sorted with the correct meds
> 
> What causes pseudonimas ??


That is something the vet cannot say - she said vaginal discharge caused by bacteria is very unusual in cats and she was surprised by the swab result and she qualified in 1977 !


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

My vet said the same with my queen, he has never seen this before but 30 days synulox did finally clear it up.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> That is something the vet cannot say - she said vaginal discharge caused by bacteria is very unusual in cats


This does strike me as very odd. Maybe vets don't get over being taught that discharge = pyo = spay without question.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

So is this pyometra or discharge in the fold of the outside skin, both different and agree pyometra does need spaying, so my vet says.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

The discharge has virtually cleared with previous antibiotics, but swab results indicate a specific antibiotic is required - as Havoc says I very much think that vets do think discharge=pyo=spay. My vet has been practising since 1977 and says she has never seen a discharge that swabbed positive for unusual bacteria as apparently most discharges for pyos are sterile ?

She did also say that she rarely sees breeding cats unless for C sections so experience is very limited. My girl remains extremely well in herself and the vet seems to think this bacteria is likely to be responsible for the discharge. I shall still be extremely vigilant.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Glad your girl seems well. xx


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

wicket said:


> <snip>
> *She did also say that she rarely sees breeding cats unless for C sections so experience is very limited.* My girl remains extremely well in herself and the vet seems to think this bacteria is likely to be responsible for the discharge. I shall still be extremely vigilant.


In a way this is good - non-breeders are getting their cats neutered and breeders are not having many c-sections - but it's bad as well as many vets have very limited experience with breeding cats. I'm not sure the specialist cat vets are much more helpful as the majority of cat owners are not breeders, and so most of their clients will not be breeders.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> So is this pyometra or discharge in the fold of the outside skin, both different and agree pyometra does need spaying, so my vet says.


The very term pyometra is used to cover *all* uterine infections. I'd spay a cat with CEH but not necessarily one which just has an infection with discharge. Therefore I don't agree with your vet that all pyometra should result in automatic spay.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

havoc said:


> The very term pyometra is used to cover *all* uterine infections. I'd spay a cat with CEH but not necessarily one which just has an infection with discharge. Therefore I don't agree with your vet that all pyometra should result in automatic spay.


And that is my next quest, to find a ultrasound operator who has the experience to diagnose CEH - I am hoping that it is the infection that is causing this girl not to get pregnant, but CEH is also a possibility in which case I am happy to spay - apparently most vets can diagnose a pyo or kittens on an ultra sound but CEH is more difficult.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> apparently most vets can diagnose a pyo or kittens on an ultra sound but CEH is more difficult


Modern machinery plus an experienced specialist should give you a decent result without drama.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

This is a good read, though I wish they'd broken it into paragraphs!

http://www.fanciers.com/cat-facts/c.../78-pyometra-and-ceh-by-susan-little-dvm.html


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> This is a good read, though I wish they'd broken it into paragraphs!
> 
> http://www.fanciers.com/cat-facts/c.../78-pyometra-and-ceh-by-susan-little-dvm.html


thank you, will have a read


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