# Studs.. How far?



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

So a question, some may remember when I'd joined that I had talked about breeding  Issy is now spayed, I am still kind of in the same mind about not wanting to, my worry is the health of Mum and kittens, I know I'd be heart broken if I lost Mum or kittens. I do still think about breeding, even though chances are slim to non that I ever will, so those thoughts are often about the logistics for me, I don't have the space nor do I want a Stud, I would hate for a boy to be out on his own or even with another cat for company, it doesn't sit right with me ( it's not a dig at anyone who keeps cats outside btw), so I would have to travel for a stud, we have limited studs in Northern or Southern Ireland, and those I've seen I wouldn't use, or have closed studs.

So question is would a long journey and in my case a ferry trip and then a stay else where put your queen off call?

When do you make the journey?

Is it fair on the girlie to go through it, generally what are peoples thoughts about it?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Meezey said:


> nor do I want a Stud, I would hate for a boy to be out on his own or even with another cat for company, it doesn't sit right with me ( it's not a dig at anyone who keeps cats outside btw), so I would have to travel for a stud


With respect, that's a bit skewed to me. You're happy make use of the services of someone else's stud who is housed outdoors, even though it's a practice you dislike strongly enough to not want to keep your own stud.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> With respect, that's a bit skewed to me. You're happy make use of the services of someone else's stud who is housed outdoors, even though it's a practice you dislike strongly enough to not want to keep your own stud.


With respect where have I said that?

Also just because I chose not to do something does not mean I think it bad or wrong for someone else to do it.

I don't kennel my dogs and never would but I don't think less of anyone that does.

It doesn't sit right with ME to do it...

Thanks for your input though


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Meezey said:


> With respect where have I said that?
> 
> Also just because I chose not to do something does not mean I think it bad or wrong for someone else to do it.
> 
> ...


Of course, it is your decision based upon how you feel. For myself, I would not take a queen to stud whose owner employed practices I disagreed with and made me uncomfortable enough to feel sorry for the way in which their cat(s) are kept.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> Of course, it is your decision based upon how you feel. For myself, I would not take a queen to stud whose owner employed practices I disagreed with and made me uncomfortable enough to feel sorry for the way in which their cat(s) are kept.


I didn't say I felt sorry for anyone else's cats? Or anyone else's stud cats? Could you point out to me where I did? Merely said it wouldn't sit right with *me* to have *my* cat outside, you also have no idea why I feel this way, but again thank you for you opinion.

Any thought on how far people should travel to stud?


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

I think maybe it depends a lot on the cat. For example if you have a female who you took to a lot of shows as a kitten and travels fantastically, then to her making a journey as you describe will likely be less stressful for her than driving 20 minutes would be for an extremely nervous cat. You wouldn't really know this until you had a girl and knew her temperament though. 

You say you would be unhappy to use the studs that are available where you live, but if that's the case would you be happy to buy your female from these breeders?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> I think maybe it depends a lot on the cat. For example if you have a female who you took to a lot of shows as a kitten and travels fantastically, then to her making a journey as you describe will likely be less stressful for her than driving 20 minutes would be for an extremely nervous cat. You wouldn't really know this until you had a girl and knew her temperament though.
> 
> You say you would be unhappy to use the studs that are available where you live, but if that's the case would you be happy to buy your female from these breeders?


She will be shown.

I'm not I will be travelling to England to get her, when the right kitten comes along in the latter part of 2014.

Thank you.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

Meezey said:


> She will be show.
> 
> I'm not I will be travelling to England to get her, when the right kitten comes along in the later part of 2014.
> 
> Thank you.


I think really it's just a case of finding a relaxed girl then. If you are bringing her all the way from England as a kitten, and then taking her to a lot of shows I don't see how taking her to a stud on the mainland would be any different. I do think though that if you get a girl you shouldn't rule out the idea that she may travel fantastically while young, and then all of a sudden decides she hates it, I've heard a few people mentioned that their cat who was once fine on journeys now becomes very stressed as they have got older, so something to watch out for.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> I think really it's just a case of finding a relaxed girl then. If you are bringing her all the way from England as a kitten, and then taking her to a lot of shows I don't see how taking her to a stud on the mainland would be any different. I do think though that if you get a girl you shouldn't rule out the idea that she may travel fantastically while young, and then all of a sudden decides she hates it, I've heard a few people mentioned that their cat who was once fine on journeys now becomes very stressed as they have got older, so something to watch out for.


Thanks again, tbh the chance of me breeding are pretty slim, it's just good to know this kind of information, and it's something I was thinking about. so thought I'd ask the people who may of experience with it..


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

My girls have always flown to outside studs, sent off the day after calling. Never had any issues, always travelled well, settled and mated on arrival. Stay until pinked up and flown back to me.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

spotty cats said:


> My girls have always flown to outside studs, sent off the day after calling. Never had any issues, always travelled well, settled and mated on arrival. Stay until pinked up and flown back to me.


Thank you, for that, I thought I remember that you flew your babies..


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> I think maybe it depends a lot on the cat. For example if you have a female who you took to a lot of shows as a kitten and travels fantastically, then to her making a journey as you describe will likely be less stressful for her than driving 20 minutes would be for an extremely nervous cat. You wouldn't really know this until you had a girl and knew her temperament though.
> 
> You say you would be unhappy to use the studs that are available where you live, but if that's the case would you be happy to buy your female from these breeders?


Good point,


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> Good point,


I've already said my my kitten would be coming from England so would be travelling to get her from there also. So wouldn't be getting a kitten from people who's stud I don't want to use.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Meezey said:


> I've already said my my kitten would be coming from England so would be travelling to get her from there also. So wouldn't be getting a kitten from people who's stud I don't want to use.


Ok ... What if the studs are UK bred... If you don't want any of the studs lines in your girl your going to have a hell of a game trying to find out


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> Ok ... What if the studs are UK bred... If you don't want any of the studs lines in your girl your going to have a hell of a game trying to find out


We have two breeders in NI, one's studs are closed. One I know her 3 studs lines. There isn't a breeder in the south of Ireland! I'm sure if I chose to breed, highly unlikely, I'd ask the girls breeder to help I'm sure she will know lines.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Closed doesn't always mean closed, many times if you prove yourself, show your cats, get to know other breeders, you may gain access to these closed studs.

If you just walk in off the street and want to use their boy, then it's much harder, which I think is understandable.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

spotty cats said:


> Closed doesn't always mean closed, many times if you prove yourself, show your cats, get to know other breeders, you may gain access to these closed studs.
> 
> If you just walk in off the street and want to use their boy, then it's much harder, which I think is understandable.


Totally understandable, Northern Ireland is tiny so I know these breeders from shows, so it might be worth talking to them if I do decide to breed, thanks.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Meezey, when you bring your girlie in, give me a shout as I still travel home from England regularly, so may be ablt to help with pick up and drop off.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Merely said it wouldn't sit right with me to have my cat outside, you also have no idea why I feel this way


Perhaps you could explain. Whether you intended it or not your comments did read as criticism of stud owners. It does seem very weird to me that you'd trust a precious girl for days to someone who keeps their cat(s) in a manner you dislike and disapprove of.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Do you know I wrote out an explanation but I won't! Wasn't intend as a critism and if it's taken as one wasn't my intention, I'm not responsible for how people feel, if they are happy with their cats being outside, why would they take someone's comment about their cat and how they keep their cat so personal! Again my cat my feelings, my reason. Thanks for those that offered advise, and thank you very much Carly for your very kind offer! 

Back to dog chat I go, nice very short stay down here again lol


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

carly87 said:


> Meezey, when you bring your girlie in, give me a shout as I still travel home from England regularly, so may be ablt to help with pick up and drop off.


Thank you Carly appreciate it, hope all is good with you and yours


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Again my cat my feelings, my reason


Absolutely. It's also the stud owner's stud, their feelings and their reasoning on how they work. Those who only care about bringing in the cash will have minimum standards and will take any queen in without question while those who spend a fortune on irrecoverable costs can pick and choose who visits.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

havoc said:


> Absolutely. It's also the stud owner's stud, their feelings and their reasoning on how they work. Those who only care about bringing in the cash will have minimum standards and will take any queen in without question while those who spend a fortune on irrecoverable costs can pick and choose who visits.


Again where did I mention anyone else's cat or how anyone keeps their stud cats? Well aware of all of the above. If people chose to take it as a personal criticism of they way they keep their cats I can't control that, and if people weren't so defensive snipey in their posts I might of explained why I personally wouldn't keep a stud, but rather than offer any advise people chose to go on the defensive and be patronising! When did the cat section get so sensitive?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

All I asked for was an elaboration as your comment was reading badly. You have made it clear you don't want to elaborate and that's fine. It's your right to have your opinions and make whatever comments you wish on a public forum. If you believe that opinion as stated will get you where you want in the breeding world then there is no need for you to be at all concerned about anyone else's 'sensitivities' is there.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Again where did I mention anyone else's cat or how anyone keeps their stud cats? Well aware of all of the above. If people chose to take it as a personal criticism of they way they keep their cats I can't control that, and if people weren't so defensive snipey in their posts I might of explained why I personally wouldn't keep a stud, but rather than offer any advise people chose to go on the defensive and be patronising! When did the cat section get so sensitive?


It's really quite difficult to judge just *how* you feel as all you have said is that it 'doesn't sit right with you'. For all I know you could have a very valid reason for not wanting or being able to keep a stud outdoors. But I'm sure you would agree that something which 'doesn't sit right' with someone is generally taken to mean it's 'something that you don't like'.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

havoc said:


> All I asked for was an elaboration as your comment was reading badly. You have made it clear you don't want to elaborate and that's fine. It's your right to have your opinions and make whatever comments you wish on a public forum. If you believe that opinion as stated will get you where you want in the breeding world then there is no need for you to be at all concerned about anyone else's 'sensitivities' is there.


My opinion is based on the responses in here, again there is a very high chance I won't breed, I also not concerned about anyone sensitivities in here.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Again where did I mention anyone else's cat or how anyone keeps their stud cats? Well aware of all of the above. If people chose to take it as a personal criticism of they way they keep their cats I can't control that, and if people weren't so defensive snipey in their posts I might of explained why I personally wouldn't keep a stud, but rather than offer any advise people chose to go on the defensive and be patronising! When did the cat section get so sensitive?


With respect, although I do not keep a stud and do not put my cats in catteries (or kennels?) you do sound kind of defiant to me. So when people do their best for their cats, spend lots of time and money and effort to keep their studs for us - small time breeders - we should not really upset them but be grateful, should not we? And if you are so particular about whether cats go outside or are taken to catteries (which is generally a normal practice with pet owners) - do you think you should even entertain the idea of breeding? How will you be able to find suitable homes for the babies that you breed - your heart will be broken or you will have to keep all of them! I have lengthy conversations with prospective owners of my kittens, give them information, samples of food, cat litter, toys and I am still not 100% sure about what happens next. Scary if you think about it! I am not even joking.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I also not concerned about anyone sensitivities in here.


Meezey, you (me, all of us) have no idea just who is 'here'. The whole point is that this is a very public forum. Why close doors before you even start?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> It's really quite difficult to judge just *how* you feel as all you have said is that it 'doesn't sit right with you'. For all I know you could have a very valid reason for not wanting or being able to keep a stud outdoors. But I'm sure you would agree that something which 'doesn't sit right' with someone is generally taken to mean it's 'something that you don't like'.


And if you had if asked the question rather than your first post about it I would have explained, but you chose to go on the defensive with my "skewed" thoughts! For me yes you are correct have a cat outside here is "something that I don't like" again there is a reason, if you questioned why rather than being so sure I had double standards I would have explained!

If I had issues with all cats being out doors I'd of written " any stud cats kept outside is cruel and it doesn't sit right with me for anyone to do it what ever the reason," then you would have been bang on the question my skewed logic and my double standards, but I haven't said it and nor do I think it.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Kotanushka said:


> With respect, although I do not keep a stud and do not put my cats in catteries (or kennels?) you do sound kind of defiant to me. So when people do their best for their cats, spend lots of time and money and effort to keep their studs for us - small time breeders - we should not really upset them but be grateful, should not we? And if you are so particular about whether cats go outside or are taken to catteries (which is generally a normal practice with pet owners) - do you think you should even entertain the idea of breeding? How will you be able to find suitable homes for the babies that you breed - your heart will be broken or you will have to keep all of them! I have lengthy conversations with prospective owners of my kittens, give them information, samples of food, cat litter, toys and I am still not 100% sure about what happens next. Scary if you think about it! I am not even joking.


I am being defiant, because I'm not saying what I'm being accused of 

I have already spoken to many people on here previously about breeding, and as I've said in this thread and many others on the site, I don't think I ever could breed, it was a question I was curious about!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Meezey said:


> And if you had if asked the question rather than your first post about it I would have explained, but you chose to go on the defensive with my "skewed" thoughts! For me yes your correct have a cat outside here is "something that I don't like" again there is a reason


My apologies. I didn't mean to sound defensive (as I have no reason to be defensive anyway) but I accept that I possibly jumped the gun in calling your thinking 'skewed'. If you don't wish to say why you don't like the fact that studs are housed outdoors that, of course, is your prerogative.


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm not, never have been, or never will be a breeder. I'm commenting as an unbiased observer. I don't think anyone is taking your comments personally, their cats are first and foremost their pets and if they weren't happy with the conditions they provide for them I'm sure they wouldn't do it. 

What I think they are questioning are what seem to be double standards - you 'would hate for a boy to be out on his own' and that it doesn't sit right with you. Yet you must realise that this must happen in order for studs to be available and would use the services of such a boy kept out on his own. It's a sort of 'not in my back garden' approach if you see what I mean. 

I'm not criticising you or anyone else, I usually keep well out of controversial stuff, I'm just trying to comment on what I see.

EDIT - ah - I see the argument has moved on while I was trying to carefully word my post and that you have a particular reason for not wanting a cat outside at the particular property you live in now. That has obviously clarified things somewhat.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

havoc said:


> Meezey, you (me, all of us) have no idea just who is 'here'. The whole point is that this is a very public forum. Why close doors before you even start?


I am not going to be accused of saying or meaning something I didn't, while my dyslexia doesn't make me the most eloquent of writers I know what I wrote and how it was intended if people had of questioned it rather than assuming what I meant I would not be being such an arse about it


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> My apologies. I didn't mean to sound defensive (as I have no reason to be defensive anyway) but I accept that I possibly jumped the gun in calling your thinking 'skewed'. If you don't wish to say why you don't like the fact that studs are housed outdoors that, of course, is your prerogative.


Again I didn't say studs I said my cat/stud, that's the bit I'm being defiant about I didn't say all studs.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Again I didn't say studs I said my cat/stud, that's the bit I'm being defiant about I didn't say all studs.


Could you please explain the difference? I feel quite bad about my original comment now!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> Could you please explain the difference? I feel quite bad about my original comment now!


I wouldn't keep a stud on his own or with another because my house has a small yard which is a safe cat proof area for the Siamese, so that's not suitable, I then have a public access path/alley unlit running behind the house and then my garden which is large but back on to the main Belfast to everywhere train line, all at the back of the house, even with 6ft fencing it's never going to be secure, it's totally detatched from the house, and hardly nice for any animal to have trains thundering past, the only time the dog ever uses it even is if we are there too ie hanging washing out! So no it wouldn't sit right with me having a stud out there


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Meezey said:


> I would hate for a boy to be out on his own or even with another cat for company, it doesn't sit right with me


I see. That explains things. I'm sure you can see why I thought differently from the above quote from your original post. I guess by saying 'even with another cat for company' you meant that your situation (i.e. the only available area being remote from your house) still wouldn't be suitable.

I agree that keeping a stud is possibly not the best of ideas in your circumstances. I guess it's not possible to allocate an area for a stud house in the yard adjacent to your home?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Meezey said:


> I wouldn't keep a stud on his own or with another because my house has a small yard which is a safe cat proof area for the Siamese, so that's not suitable, I then have a public access path/alley unlit running behind the house and then my garden which is large but back on to the main Belfast to everywhere train line, all at the back of the house, even with 6ft fencing it's never going to be secure, it's totally detatched from the house, and hardly nice for any animal to have trains thundering past, the only time the dog ever uses it even is if we are there too ie hanging washing out! So no it wouldn't sit right with me having a stud out there


Thinking about it, I wonder if you could turn having a safe, cat proof area to your advantage. It's always best, of course, when outdoor studs have as roomy accommodation/run as possible but, realistically, most people have some sort of limitation on what they can provide. I wonder if a more modest sized housing might work within your yard, so long as he can have a good deal of access to the whole cat-proof/cat safe area on a 'by turn' basis with your other cats? In that sort of situation he would possibly end up with a nicer, bigger area than many studs who might be contained to even a good sized house/run. Just a thought....


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Some people manage studs in their home maybe talk with them,i believe spottycats is one.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Carly also keeps Tango inside the home, at this stage it is questionable if he knows he is a stud though.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> I see. That explains things. I'm sure you can see why I thought differently from the above quote from your original post. I guess by saying 'even with another cat for company' you meant that your situation (i.e. the only available area being remote from your house) still wouldn't be suitable.
> 
> I agree that keeping a stud is possibly not the best of ideas in your circumstances. I guess it's not possible to allocate an area for a stud house in the yard adjacent to your home?


Yes it's just too detached even with company they would be too far away from the house, it would exclude them from daily comings and going of every day life.The yard is really small all of it could be an okay size run, but then that would generate access issues to the garden, although might work, something to think about.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Carly also keeps Tango inside the home, at this stage it is questionable if he knows he is a stud though.


Hahaha bless Tango 

Wonder given the tiny numbers of Siamese here, would one queen be enough for a stud? I know the breeder who has his studs on closed doesn't allow his kitten's to go active, so would he have enough girlies to keep him happy in NI?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Hahaha bless Tango
> 
> Wonder given the tiny numbers of Siamese here, would one queen be enough for a stud? I know the breeder who has his studs on closed doesn't allow his kitten's to go active, so would he have enough girlies to keep him happy in NI?


id say you would need at lest 3 to 4 girls to keep a boy happy.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

When i started i was told 3 queens to 1 stud, so that is what i have now.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> When i started i was told 3 queens to 1 stud, so that is what i have now.


I wonder if it would even be possible to get that many queens for him


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

Meezey said:


> I wonder if it would even be possible to get that many queens for him


If you did own a stud you could always put him at open stud. It would be very costly as you would have to pay for health tests etc and make sure you only allowed properly tested females anywhere near him or you would be putting him and even your own girls at risk, however it is worth considering if as you say there are very few studs where you are. It may even help the breed enormously in that area, if you planned to do this you would have to make sure your boy was an incredible example of the breed though, also it would probably mean a lot of the breeders local to you would end up with cats related to your own lines, so you may have to look at importing again in the later stages.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> If you did own a stud you could always put him at open stud. It would be very costly as you would have to pay for health tests etc and make sure you only allowed properly tested females anywhere near him or you would be putting him and even your own girls at risk, however it is worth considering if as you say there are very few studs where you are. It may even help the breed enormously in that area, if you planned to do this you would have to make sure your boy was an incredible example of the breed though, also it would probably mean a lot of the breeders local to you would end up with cats related to your own lines, so you may have to look at importing again in the later stages.


I think even with open stud, he would struggle to get queens, at the average cat show here, we would have maybe 6/7 Siamese and they are usually, mine at least two of mine, the boys breeders 3 or 4, and the other breeders cats, that's cats from North and South in the show


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

He still doesnt' know. Has spent half an hour trying to mate Millie, and they're now playing together in the orange cube. Useless, bless him!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

carly87 said:


> He still doesnt' know. Has spent half an hour trying to mate Millie, and they're now playing together in the orange cube. Useless, bless him!


You are in for some fun then


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I didn't realise there were so few Siamese breeders in Ireland - North or South 
To have your own boy Meezy you need a minimum of 3 girls and if you kept a female kitten to breed on you would need to find another stud. Not easy is it


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> I didn't realise there were so few Siamese breeders in Ireland - North or South
> To have your own boy Meezy you need a minimum of 3 girls and if you kept a female kitten to breed on you would need to find another stud. Not easy is it


Nope  I do think as I thought in the first place that I would have to travel to a stud and travel over the water


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Tempy said:


> Good job it's not Balinese you're considering breeding - there are even less around


I always remember Siamese being so popular when I was a child, a lady in BallyKelly had 13 in one house, now it appears she had more then the whole population of Siamese in ALL of Ireland today  that's sad


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

At least you have the option of breeding to Oriental if you are really stuck for a stud.

In fact this might be a good idea for a maiden queen, as they are notorious for going off call and not coming back in again, on a first visit to a stud (as did my first girl). Luckily the stud was fairly local, under 20 miles away.

I was fairly limited as I had to travel by public transport, so I did tend to stick with one breeder not too far away, who had several studs. She also boarded my cats for me when I went on holiday, so the girls were much more relaxed and not as freaked out by their surroundings.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

MerlinsMum said:


> At least you have the option of breeding to Oriental if you are really stuck for a stud.
> 
> In fact this might be a good idea for a maiden queen, as they are notorious for going off call and not coming back in again, on a first visit to a stud (as did my first girl). Luckily the stud was fairly local, under 20 miles away.
> 
> I was fairly limited as I had to travel by public transport, so I did tend to stick with one breeder not too far away, who had several studs. She also boarded my cats for me when I went on holiday, so the girls were much more relaxed and not as freaked out by their surroundings.


The Oriental population here is worse than the Siamese  Our pointies are few on far between


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