# What would your dog have to do...



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

What would your dog have to do for you to make the decision to rehome him/her?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

I think thats such a hard question, because things arent simply like that - massive grey areas. I took on my 4 dogs through choice, I owe it to them to do my best - so no matter what they do, I will always do whats right for them. I couldnt rehome one because ones done something wrong, I will continue to work with them. I would only ever rehome them when it became unfair to keep them and for the best interest of the dog.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I can't think of absolutely anything that they could do that would make me even consider rehoming any of them.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> What would your dog have to do for you to make the decision to rehome him/her?


I don't think it's a matter of what the dog would have to do. I can only think of an unprovoked attack on our daughter as a reason. Our daughter comes first. Other than that, no matter what our dogs do they will stay will us. I think the only other reason we would consider rehoming is if we were not able to look after them properly which would generally mean because of severe ill health on our side.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

I really can't say because I question over killing the cat being one but even then I don't think I could, I may ask someone to take her for a while but honestly don't think she could do anything for me to rehome her. Hell she bit my husband :lol: so must love her (although it's his fault)


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Nothing.....

Unless they can become pedo's, mass murderers etc.. 

My dogs are like my kids...i would never give up on my daughter, and i would never give up on my dogs.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Bite the kids.

Simple really but just not a risk i can take. However Oscar has "marked" both my kids as a pup and is still with us but he is on a final warning


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## Adon (Aug 10, 2011)

Same biting aggressively for no reason. Our old neighbour rehomed their staff after it bit their relative on the face, for no apparent reason. Also was at school with a girl who had horrendous dog bite after her dog bit her on her face, really effected her life as facial disfigurements are one of worst disabilities to deal with IMO. Do not think it's responsible to keep such dogs and agree with pts in such cases


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

If they attacked the children unprovoked (ie if one of the dogs bit one of the kids because s/he was pulling his tail or something, then no I wouldn't rehome)
Or if one of the children became severely allergic.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

I don't have kids so realistically if one of them becamse extremely agressive toward the other and it was effecting them living together and I had explored all other options and had been told by professionals the kindest thing would be to rehome....then I would consider.
I have my dogs because I adore them and I do everything I can to make them happy, if for one minute I thought I could not make them happy or that in my selfishness of keeping them both i was making onw or both miserable I would look to rehome.
They are my family and every day the make me laugh and most days they make me want to scream but never have I ever wanted rid of them.


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## jayne5364 (Oct 21, 2009)

An unprovoked attack on one of the grandkids. But before rehoming I would have them vet checked to see if there was a reason for the attack.


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Same as others have said an unprovoked attack on my son would be the only reason i would even contemplate....other than that i may get annoyed with them sometimes (like when Charlie stripped my hall of its new paper for the second time) but they are mine i made a commitment to them & will forgive them most things as they are my family.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I can`t imagine that happening. I have had aggressive, difficult, sick, timid dogs, DA dogs, antisocial dogs, old dogs... they all found their ways into my heart.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Not get on to the point where it was stressful, unliveable and dangerous; and if all avenues had been down and behaviourists had been consulted. I would absolutely hate to own two dogs that did not like eachother, i image it would be a miserable existence for both.

I wouldnt rehome though, i would PTS.


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## hope (May 25, 2011)

would never ever rehome any of my animals never ever


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Learn english & say hi mum not really happy here rather can I go and live somewhere else


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

It's nothing clover would do, but down to my own ill health

. I've had a few admissions to hospital over the last year due to Bipolar. Clover goes to my friends and is well looked after, but it's still unsettling. So if I have another admission quite quickly then I would have to look at rehoming for her sake.. but it would break my heart


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

I cannot think of one reason I would need to rehome my dogs. I've had aggressive dogs, scared dogs, all sorts of problems, and I've worked through them and learned to love my dogs, all of them.

Nope, I cannot think of one reason why they'd have to go.


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## lucyandsandy (Apr 7, 2011)

The only thing Sandy could do to make me need to rehome would be if she started becoming aggressive and biting my children. Otherwise I would hope everything else could be worked through.


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## maryrose1977 (Aug 7, 2011)

For me it would have to be hurting the kids. But i would have to consult my vet first and have tests done to find a cause.

Penny still tries to nip and kids are aware they are not allowed to do any rough play with her.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

Theres no way i'd ever rehome Tummel, i'm not planning on having kids so no problems there(he loves kids anyway), he adores all other animals(except rabbits which is fine as i'm frightened of them) so no problems there and apart from some SA he doesn't have any behavioural issues.

If for some reason he changed i's be straight to the vets for a health check, if it was behavioural i'd get in a behaviourist and retrain him, simple as he's my dog and he always will be until the day i die


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks for all your replies. As a volunteer in rescue we hear of many reasons why people want to give their dog away. 

For me personally there would never be a reason. When I took on my dogs it was for life. If I couldn't manage it, then I wouldn't make it anyone else's problem. 

Also, no dog of mine will ever face a lonely day in kennels.


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## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

If ever there was a behaviour from my dog serious enough for me to consider rehoming, I would euthanise. If I couldn't deal with it I'm pretty sure no one else would.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

But to all those people who have said they would rehome If the dog bit a child...

In the assumption that you would vet check and work with a Behaviourist, and therefore try to address the problem..

Why would u rehome and make it someone else's problem. Or else risk your dog sitting in a cold,lonely kennel indefinitely..


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## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> But to all those people who have said they would rehome If the dog bit a child...
> 
> In the assumption that you would vet check and work with a Behaviourist, and therefore try to address the problem..
> 
> Why would u rehome and make it someone else's problem. Or else risk your dog sitting in a cold,lonely kennel indefinitely..


Exactly why I wouldn't rehome my dog.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Smash the bottle of 15 year old single malt I keep for special occassions...


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

springerpete said:


> Smash the bottle of 15 year old single malt I keep for special occassions...


LOL!

Now that I can understand


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

I am currently being faced with this very decision over Louie. We took him on as a stray, he never went through the rescue system, and although we said from the outset we would decide whether to keep him at the end of the summer, it is still an agonizing decision and something I literally couldn't go through again. There are a number of reasons why we are considering rehoming Louie but it is mostly to do with Florence, she is our absolute priority and keeping Louie is affecting Florence negatively unfortunately. 

There is nothing whatsoever Florence could do that would mean she would have to be rehomed. I consider her my 'daughter', know that sounds weird but she literally means everything to me. I'm very lucky in that if something happened and I couldn't look after Florence temporarily (such as illness) my mum (who absolutely adores Florence) would take her


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> Why would u rehome and make it someone else's problem. Or else risk your dog sitting in a cold,lonely kennel indefinitely..


I think it's an instinctive reaction to the though of what would a dog need to do for you to rehome. Chances are a dog which showed unprovoked aggression would be put down. It's not a situation I imagine myself being in thankfully. At the end of the day we all love our dogs. Dealing with hypothetical questions will not necessarily reflect what would happen in real life. Advice of relevant authorities would influence any decision.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> Thanks for all your replies. As a volunteer in rescue we hear of many reasons why people want to give their dog away.
> 
> For me personally there would never be a reason. When I took on my dogs it was for life. If I couldn't manage it, then I wouldn't make it anyone else's problem.
> 
> *Also, no dog of mine will ever face a lonely day in kennels*.


This is exactly how I feel. If, god forbid, I couldn't keep my dogs for whatever reason - 4 of the current ones would be put to sleep.

I just know they wouldn't be rehomed and would be in kennels overlooked for a long, long time or put to sleep anyway :crying:

Jake and Dylan are ex-racing greyhounds, getting on now at 7 years old, and they've both got health problem. Blue is a large mastiff crossbreed, again with health problems and he seriously bitten in the past, so couldn't risk rehoming him, and Alfie is child aggressive, going blind and nearly 9  so none of them would be suitable to be rehomed, and I genuinely think none of them could cope with it either, especially Alfie.

Jake, Dylan and Blue are all rescues and the day I brought each of them home I promised them they would never be stuck in a shelter again, and I'm keeping my word  theyre with me until the day they die.

Harvey is the only one I genuinely feel could be happy in another home. He is young, impeccable temperament and a desirable breed. He'd be snapped up I'm sure, and I feel he'd easily adjust - at the moment anyway.

Jeez, I'm welling up just thinking about this all  Not that I ever intend on parting with any of them before their time!!


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

3 of my 4 are rescues and I'd never put them through it again. I'd never pass my responabilities on to anyone else.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

I sometimes feel that alot of owners say they wouldnt hand over their responsabilities. - with a dog that is aggressive I can understand/accept but if someone had to get rid of a dog because of personal circumstances, I couldnt accept having the dogs life ended. Isnt that selfish? after all alot of current rescues, even more so breed rescues work on a foster basis.
- all four of my dogs deserve a loving home, and are wonderful family pets. If I could no longer keep them the last thing I owe them is to find them all a suitable home - not have their lives ended because I cant give them what they needed, when its possible someone else could.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Nothing they did would cause me to re-home them. They all have dubious pasts and love each other too much for me to risk them falling into the wrong hands or getting separated from each other. If they became aggressive to one another or my grandkids I would see a vet and a behaviourist then manage the situation until it was resolved.


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> What would your dog have to do for you to make the decision to rehome him/her?


Eat my grandson or my last Freddo


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## wyntersmum (Jul 31, 2011)

i think it would have to be if he REALY hurt my daughter by nasty way not by accident through being over excited but at this moment in time hes fast asleep between my legs and butter wouldnt melt :001_tt1:


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

I feel desperately sorry for anyone who has to consider rehoming their dog for a completely genuine reason. Unfortunately life can throw some horrible dilemmas at you that are totally unforeseen on the horizon. 

When I was about 14, my mum took my Auntie's Goldie after she moved to Singapore. Her husband moved out there for business and if she hadn't have gone with him, her marriage would have been over. Gina was with us for a year and wasn't affected by it all (in fact it probably did her a bit of good because my mum was a lot stricter with her than my Auntie was)  

Unfortuantely there's too many people who give up on their dogs for rididolusly lame reasons, making those who have to rehome because there's literally no other option look bad. Rescues should really only be there for genuine people but unfortunately that's not a viable option anymore. But that's a differnet argument


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> I sometimes feel that alot of owners say they wouldnt hand over their responsabilities. - with a dog that is aggressive I can understand/accept but if someone had to get rid of a dog because of personal circumstances, I couldnt accept having the dogs life ended. Isnt that selfish? after all alot of current rescues, even more so breed rescues work on a foster basis.
> - all four of my dogs deserve a loving home, and are wonderful family pets. If I could no longer keep them the last thing I owe them is to find them all a suitable home - not have their lives ended because I cant give them what they needed, when its possible someone else could.


You cant always believe 'personal' circumstances or reasons though. One of my dogs came to me for foster, she had a new home to go to but the woman changed her mind, without meeting the dog. Scruff is aggressive and this woman had a young daughter. No-one said she was aggressive, what would have happened to her if she'd gone there. I dont trust anyone with my dogs- not even friends


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

kat&molly said:


> You cant always believe 'personal' circumstances or reasons though.


no but the person giving the dog up knows the truth, and this is what I am talking about. Someone having a dog PTS because of personal reasons at home, rather than rehoming a happy, healthy dog.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> no but the person giving the dog up knows the truth, and this is what I am talking about. Someone having a dog PTS because of personal reasons at home, rather than rehoming a happy, healthy dog.


Can't imagine that a good vet would do it anyway?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

bearcub said:


> Can't imagine that a good vet would do it anyway?


You would be suprised at them that will, not right though is it - but anyone can pretend a dog has attacked and the like - so needs to be PTS! 
- How many fosters we have had come in that are 'aggressive', that have been the most loving dogs is a joke.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> no but the person giving the dog up knows the truth, and this is what I am talking about. Someone having a dog PTS because of personal reasons at home, rather than rehoming a happy, healthy dog.


 Ok, so I end up living in a tent and cant keep the one dog I had from a pup, I'd never put her in a refuge. I'll shoot her first I'd never take the chance that she ends up with a scumbag, and gets passed pillar to post.


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## tattoogirl73 (Jun 25, 2011)

i rehomed my boy jax three months ago because of his and opie's fighting. if i hadn't, one day one would have killed the other even the help of a behavourist and a dog trainer couldn't stop their fighting. we think it was a jealousy issue. opie started all the fights, which was one of the reasons we chose him to stay. since he's been on his own, he's like a different dog. he's far happier and a lot more chilled out. he even has other dogs round for play dates. he cries when they leave, while he never even looked for jax when he went. jax went to live with our dog trainers cousin, and is being spoilt rotten. his new owner sent me some photos this week, and the look of love he had in his eyes for martin finally put my mind at rest. for me, it was the hardiest thing i've ever had to do. for my boys, it was the best decision that i ever made, and that's what's important.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

If i was in the position where I had to rehome because my two were been agressive I would not put him back into rescue I would keep him until a home could be found, I would jsut juggle dogs. Both mine are only young and have a good 10 years in front of them the tought of having to dog juggle and possibly having two stresses out dogs for that length of time makes me feel very sad.
I would never get rid of my dogs because...i am having a baby, the new puppy doesn't like it, I can't afford it, i have a new job etc
And if i had to make the decision to rehome my dog it would totally totally break my heart.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I can't think of anything they would fo it would break my heart. Can only think if my personal circumstances became dramatically changed that it had an impact on their lives that I just couldn't fix.

One of my dogs I just can't see being able to rehome which worries me I can't see someone wanting to take him on.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

i think if she became aggressive and training classes didnt help i would rehome but thats all, and i dont see that happening ...well i hope not!


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Aggression or no aggression i would never rehome or put Sammy to sleep. Even with unprovoked attacks there must be some slight aggressive behaviour before to warn the owner.

If he ever did show signs of becoming aggressive towards kids id keep him separate and still give him all the love i have to give. Kids are a little way off for me yet..but i hope they do get to meet him one day and experience the immense love he has to give...saddens me to think he wont be around one day..im totally attached to my boy, he's like a lil brother to me and i honestly believe he treats me like a sibling too...:crying:


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## natty01 (Sep 4, 2011)

i would euthanse if the dog was very aggresive . up until this year i had a somewhat stroppy greyhound . i took him on to rehome him the next day with one of the rescues but that night he bit my son in the face , none of the rescues would take him after that because they wouldnt give me assurances that he wouldnt be homed near children and that the new owner would be made very aware of what had happened . so i kept him , it was hard work as he needed constant supervision and spent a lot of time muzzled , which he didnt mind because being an x racer he was well accustomed to wearing one.

i refused to pass him to someone who didnt know what he was capable of , in my opinion thats both unfair and very irresponsable.

so i kept him , he was pts at 10 due to bone cancer.

i dont think id do it again , it was very stressfull at times , but i loved him dearly and never gave up on him.



goodvic2 said:


> But to all those people who have said they would rehome If the dog bit a child...
> 
> In the assumption that you would vet check and work with a Behaviourist, and therefore try to address the problem..
> 
> Why would u rehome and make it someone else's problem. Or else risk your dog sitting in a cold,lonely kennel indefinitely..


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Not had chance to read all replys but for me it would be extremly hard to do, I suppose becomeing aggressive ,especially with the kids.. but even then i would have to do every thing possible first. Its like hes family and i couldnt bear to not have him around


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I think I would rehome mine if I became deathly allergic to them!
Aggression wouldnt be such a major issue for me coz I dont have kids round and all mine are small enough to easily manage and keep seperate.
Although if i thought they werent happy and had a perfect home lined up I would be willing to let them go for their own benefit....but they arent allowed to leave me...ever, ever, ever!!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

No kids here either. Kali has had a go at Marty, Bruce and even Flynn (think she mistook him for Marts cos she loves her son) but no way would i ever rehome her, she's one of my babies and she's staying that way  I manage her moods and know what triggers them so no probs and baby gates help tremendously.
Could never trust anyone to love her like i do and couldn't begin to imagine seeing one of my babies walk out of my house never to return. Whatever any of them did i'd stand by them cos i love them regardless.


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## billie jo (Feb 17, 2011)

I would rehome any one of my dogs, in a blink of an eye, if they ever became pally with my ex husband!! But can't see that happening, cos they are intelligent, opposed to him being a complete ******!! Ok had a difficult shift, so not being serious. Just joking! - real answer - I would rather cut off my right hand and I would rather rip out my heart whilst it was still beating - my dogs are my work collegues, my bread and butter, my best friends, my eyes in the back of my head, my family, never not would I personally rehouse any one of them! I would die for them, - there lies your answer - Never, not in a million years! Dogs with problems are usually caused by people who do not understand them. Dogs in general are sociable beings - they are a pack animal - to live in harmony with them, is to understand them, but they are a different to us - to undermestimate them, is a mistake! -I love my lot to bits, but I do appreciate they are dogs and I, unfortunately am human - told you I have had a God awful shift! lol - signing off - a humble DOG HANDLER IN LONDON!


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

SixStar said:


> I can't think of absolutely anything that they could do that would make me even consider rehoming any of them.


I only 'Liked' your post because the Dog in your avatar reminded me of a Dog I once had. :wink:

On a more serious note, I can't think of anything either. :smile5:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

lucylastic said:


> If ever there was a behaviour from my dog serious enough for me to consider rehoming, I would euthanise. If I couldn't deal with it I'm pretty sure no one else would.


Me too. But for some reasons I would rehome but never to a rescue.



bearcub said:


> Can't imagine that a good vet would do it anyway?


A vet will put down any dog they are asked to. Or any other animal. And a lot of vets will encourage pts as the first course of action with a problem dog.

I firmly believe that a dog should add to our lives. If the time comes, for any reason, that the dog is detracting from your life then we owe it to ourselves and to the dog to find it a better home. Which is why, of course, so many dogs end up in rescue. But I am not talking about those that have got a dog on a whim and get bored with it, I am talking about a dog that for some reason does not fit into your lifestyle and is showing it is miserable and spoiling your enjoyment of your life.

I rehomed a puppy I had bred. I had kept two against my better judgement because my husband and daughter wanted one. They never fed it, groomed it or walked it and only paid it any attention when it suited them. She was not a good farm dog as she ran off continually and had to be tied up a lot. I had my own pup and the mother who were both very much my dogs. So I advertised the dog (about a year old) with an open mind and the perfect home came up so I let her go. I have never regretted it, they kept in touch and let my daughter visit and the dog was really happy.

On the other hand when my much loved collie bit my daughter on the face- it was not serious but we had to keep her very seperate from other children and it was an accident waiting to happen - I would not have dreamt of rehoming her and she was sadly pts.
We also had a GSD who attacked sheep - we were his third home and I was not happy to either pts or rehome but tried many rescues who all refused to take a sheep worrier even though he had a perfect temprament and was well trained and a lovely dog. Obviously he would not have a good life with us on a farm if he had to be tied up or shut up the whole time so we made the decision to pts.

If I had to go through either of those decisions again I am not sure I would go the same way. They seemed right at the time and were discussed with a lot of people and with the vet. I would never have rehomed the collie and she was my constant companion so would not have been happy being kept seperate from my daughter - and the GSD risked being passed around if we rehomed him privately - 3 homes in 18 months is plenty.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

For me, the only thing that would part me from my dogs is death. If I were diagnosed with a terminal illness I would rehome my dogs in the time I had left, but not through the rescue system. If they fought, I'd keep them apart and work on it. If either attacked people or other dogs I'd pts if the problem couldn't be resolved, rather than passing it on to others.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

I always thought the dealbreakers for me would be aggression, not housetrained (not just lazy - I have problems with my spine that makes bending down to clean the carpet difficult) and/or SA.

Then Milly the lurcher came into my life  She wasn't housetrained and had/has (according to neighbour) SA. Maybe that's another thread in the making though. Needless to say, she's still here.

Now I think the only thing that would make me rehome either of my dogs would be if either or both were extremely unhappy and/or constantly fighting with eachother.


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## toryb (Jul 11, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> But to all those people who have said they would rehome If the dog bit a child...
> 
> In the assumption that you would vet check and work with a Behaviourist, and therefore try to address the problem..
> 
> Why would u rehome and make it someone else's problem. Or else risk your dog sitting in a cold,lonely kennel indefinitely..


This is a really tough one for me...I have three young children and if our dog bit bit of them then i would consider returning the only option (if it wad unprovoked) as we have an agreement with the rescue. I don't know how long working with a behavourist would take and couldnt put my children at risk during that time... I have always adored our pets but that would have to be the final straw for me, my children come first without a doubt x


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

GillyR said:


> Nothing.....
> 
> Unless they can become pedo's, mass murderers etc..
> 
> My dogs are like my kids...i would never give up on my daughter, and i would never give up on my dogs.


Dear oh dear I feel for your daughter if she has the same ranking in your life as your dog. Words fail me


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## AlisonLyn (Sep 2, 2011)

Kill me or OH.... we would NEVER give up on a dog as they deserve the best we can give them.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Dear oh dear I feel for your daughter if she has the same ranking in your life as your dog. Words fail me


I think you're reading it wrong.

The dog has the same high ranking, and special place in the family, as the child has.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Georgee said:


> Dear oh dear I feel for your daughter if she has the same ranking in your life as your dog. Words fail me


Not a nice comment is it? 
I take it the poster is saying she takes her responsibilities seriously enough not to offload them when the going gets tough. 
IF one of my dogs bit one of my kids I would blame myself, not the dog or the kid. It would be down to poor handling, management or sheer carelessness on my part. 
The animal is not wicked. The child is not stupid. The fault lies with the rersponsible adult - for failing to prevent it. 
If your child is injured by (say) an unattended iron - do you get rid of the iron? 
I think the question is one of those `have you stopped hitting your wife` ones. There is no right answer because the question is faulty. 
The question `What would you do if you allowed your dog to behave very badly` would be better, would it not?


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Dogs should always know there place in any family. That place is beneath children and adults in the house. For example they should be reminded of this by being fed after the people in the house. 
To say your dog shares the same place in your heart as your children is in my humble opinion insulting to your offspring. Dogs are animals,they are not the product of you and your partner.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Dogs should always know there place in any family. That place is beneath children and adults in the house. For example they should be reminded of this by being fed after the people in the house.
> To say your dog shares the same place in your heart as your children is in my humble opinion insulting to your offspring. Dogs are animals,they are not the product of you and your partner.


Their place depends on who owns them and their attitude towards dog ownership.

I can't see how its insulting to say a dog has an equal place in the families heart as a child.

I'd choose my dogs over the vast majority of my family any day.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Georgee said:


> Dogs should always know there place in any family. That place is beneath children and adults in the house. For example they should be reminded of this by being fed after the people in the house.
> To say your dog shares the same place in your heart as your children is in my humble opinion insulting to your offspring. Dogs are animals,they are not the product of you and your partner.


Beneath? Ah the arrogance there. We are animals. The most vicious, polluting, murderous animals on earth. We share the planet with other creatures and they are not the better for it. 
How sad your attitude is - that a fellow creature is `beneath you`.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

There in lies the issue then . It's about human needs to replace relationships with people with dogs. It's way easier to get on with a dog, they do not talk back, cannot argue with you and you can control them. Way easier than having adult to adult relationships. Dogs needs are simple, humans are complex.


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## debs78 (Jul 18, 2011)

Nothing

Pure and simple, there is nothing my girls could or would do that would make me re-home them. There is no problem that can't be overcome with time, effort and patience. Might sound a bit naive but it's just my opinion


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> There in lies the issue then . It's about human needs to replace relationships with people with dogs. It's way easier to get on with a dog, they do not talk back, cannot argue with you and you can control them. Way easier than having adult to adult relationships. Dogs needs are simple, humans are complex.


Issue? What issue?

You do realise its possible to have human/adult relationships, and one with a dog don't you?

They arent exclusive.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Beneath? Ah the arrogance there. We are animals. The most vicious, polluting, murderous animals on earth. We share the planet with other creatures and they are not the better for it.
> How sad your attitude is - that a fellow creature is `beneath you`.


Dogs are animals not humans. If that hurts or annoys you I apologise, but wow what a negative view of mankind, one I do not share. Cannot bear the humanisation of dogs, giving them human attributes and thought processes they simply do not have.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> I'd choose my dogs over the vast majority of my family any day.


You choosing dogs over most of your family. That's what I meant by replacing human relationships with dogs. Sorry if you misinterpreted me I am new to this debating online.:smile5:


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

debs78 said:


> Nothing
> 
> Pure and simple, there is nothing my girls could or would do that would make me re-home them. There is no problem that can't be overcome with time, effort and patience. Might sound a bit naive but it's just my opinion


What about the things life throws at you who can predict that? Illness disability homelessness unemployment. If you had no money to feed your dogs surely better to find someone who can, for the dogs sake.
Nobody knows how life turns out which is why the original question cannot really be answered


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> You choosing dogs over most of your family. That's what I meant by replacing human relationships with dogs. Sorry if you misinterpreted me I am new to this debating online.:smile5:


But its not replacing anything. I have relationships with other people, i just don't happen to be related to them on a biological and genetic level. Thank God.

People have family (can't be chosen - not always nice) then people have friends (chosen and often closer on an emotional level).

I couldnt choose between a friend and my dogs, but then my relationship and bond with my friends means i would never be in a position where i would have to.

But my dogs mean just as much to me as my friends, and i really cant see an issue with this, nor anyone who states their dog is just as important as a child/spouse/parent. As long as the dog isnt treated like a person, and its species specific needs are met of course.


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## debs78 (Jul 18, 2011)

Georgee said:


> There in lies the issue then . It's about human needs to replace relationships with people with dogs. It's way easier to get on with a dog, they do not talk back, cannot argue with you and you can control them. Way easier than having adult to adult relationships. Dogs needs are simple, humans are complex.


I think if you read the thread just put up about Milly's story you will find that many dogs needs are far from simple and much more complex than your average human.

When I first got Willow I listened to people who told me that she should be shown 'her place' and that it was beneath us as humans. It is only over the years of getting to know her and then having Maisie join our family that I have realised what utter rot this is. Dogs should be treated with respect and as a valued member of the family, only then do you get the love, loyalty and pure pleasure of being with them.


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## debs78 (Jul 18, 2011)

Georgee said:


> What about the things life throws at you who can predict that? Illness disability homelessness unemployment. If you had no money to feed your dogs surely better to find someone who can, for the dogs sake.
> Nobody knows how life turns out which is why the original question cannot really be answered


I agree but the question was 'What would your dog have to do....' Of course if I was made homeless or unemployed this would affect my ability to look after them but that would be through no fault of their own.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

debs78 said:


> I think if you read the thread just put up about Milly's story you will find that many dogs needs are far from simple and much more complex than your average human.
> 
> When I first got Willow I listened to people who told me that she should be shown 'her place' and that it was beneath us as humans. It is only over the years of getting to know her and then having Maisie join our family that I have realised what utter rot this is. Dogs should be treated with respect and as a valued member of the family, only then do you get the love, loyalty and pure pleasure of being with them.


Totally agree that dogs should be treated with respect debs. Respect as an animal. Yes a respected member of the family but NOT the same as other family members/humans .to suggest otherwise surely is denying biology/facts of the species. Surely you cannot seriously believe that dogs are " much more complex that the average human. "


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

debs78 said:


> I agree but the question was 'What would your dog have to do....' Of course if I was made homeless or unemployed this would affect my ability to look after them but that would be through no fault of their own.


Oh yeh debs just read the original question and you are right, is about what dog would have to do? Sorry
So on that if you dog seriously attacked one of your family,partner or you, you could still keep it and not have it put down?


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## debs78 (Jul 18, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Totally agree that dogs should be treated with respect debs. Respect as an animal. Yes a respected member of the family but NOT the same as other family members/humans .to suggest otherwise surely is denying biology/facts of the species. Surely you cannot seriously believe that dogs are " much more complex that the average human. "


Sorry but yes I do on the whole. It's probably what I do for a living that has made me rather cynical about the human race but by and large the people I come in to contact with are far less complex than dogs


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## debs78 (Jul 18, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Oh yeh debs just read the original question and you are right, is about what dog would have to do? Sorry
> So on that if you dog seriously attacked one of your family,partner or you, you could still keep it and not have it put down?


That is a difficult one and I do understand why people have to. I suppose you can never say never. I do think though that on the whole (and I don't mean always) there are signs that behaviour is not what it should be before it gets to the stage of attacking and I think there are opportunities to do something about it before it gets that far. But as I say I know there are times when it does just happen and in those circumstances I couldn't honestly say what my choice would be. I hope I never have to decide.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Yeh but factually that isn't true. It may be "a feeling" you have but if you look at differences in brain capacity, thought processing,motor skills etc there is a massive difference otherwise dogs would have be highly trained enough to do our jobs,run the country and we could all retire!
Mind none of our dogs would be here if it was not for humans, so cannot be all bad as a species:smile5:


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I would only rehome one of my dogs if its life was at risk, i.e If we kept a daughter of Tilly and Tilly grew up to hate her daughter and not accept her, Rather then keep her daughter id find a suitable home and keep Tilly as she was here 1st and I feel id owe it more to her then her daughter, just my opinion it dosent make it right i know.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Dogs should always know there place in any family. That place is beneath children and adults in the house. For example they should be reminded of this by being fed after the people in the house.
> To say your dog shares the same place in your heart as your children is in my humble opinion insulting to your offspring. Dogs are animals,they are not the product of you and your partner.


This is one of the reasons I would never rehome a dog.I would hate for them to end up with someone who has this sort of attitude.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

My dogs are my family and are far from simple, Lexi is one of the most complex beings I have come across, extremely sensitive to changes in her enviroment, emotions in the household and becomes extremely attached to people.
My dogs are treated like dogs, they get two off lead runs a day they are allowed to run bark play roll in poo and any other natural thing dogs do...but the are still my family, and I am perfectly capable of having normal adult on adult realtionships have an excellant realtionship with my family and getting married in 2 months so obviously my OH thinks I cope ok with adult on adult realtionships.
Oh and for the record every day my dogs get fed before us, we don't eat breakfast so they get their breakfast before us and we walk them get home give them their tea then have our tea.....it has never done my two any harm, they don't think of themselves as 'above' us in the rankings, they don't beg for food from us and listen to what we ask of them.
I don't have kids but my OH does and if Lexi or Bos for that matter was to ever bite his daughter we would know it is so far out of character for them that no we would not PTS we would spend every last penny investigating every avenue available to us to find out what had caused this.


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

The dogs I have currently are family dogs, my household dogs rather than mine, and unfortunetly being a teenager still and not yet an adult the decision to rehome would not be my decision but my parents.

My household dogs currently, I'd hope I never have to rehome! Tia is dog aggressive, if ever I left Tia and Bella together unfrotuently I assume Bella would no longer be with us. But we manage this situation carefully and as I have a largish house and about an acre of land (all separated up..big Walls, hedges, fences) the dogs never have to come into contact with one another, ever. This doesn't lead to a miserable life for any of them, Bella loves other dogs company which she gets because she's kept with Enzo and Dexter and Tia too gets what she wants human interaction, she thrives on human company and also gets along with the cats. She enjoys playing with her rubber rings, in her half of the garden and she's happy. She also isn't bothered by Dexter or Enzo, Only Bella.

Would I consider rehoming Tia, of course not! She's same sex aggressive, I wouldn't pass my problems on to anyone else no matter how much I trusted them. she's our responsibility and was in actual fact here before Bella. 

Bella is a private rescue, so although didn't have to be put in kennels was under stress from having to move home at 12 months, I wouldn't put her through it again. She's our dog, our responsibility and if anything ever happened to her I'd never forgive myself. 

So go on.. Tell me all this rubbish about how Tia should have been PTS or rehomed and how we shouldn't have got Bella.. 

We've heard it all before and know full well these dogs are our responsibility! Why put a healthy dog down? Because let's face it trying to rehome Tia would not be very likely at all! She's 8 years old now, which sadly means being her breed she won't have to much longer left :crying: but she's happy here, much more happy than she would be if she was PTS 5 years ago! I couldn't bring myself to put a healthy happy dog down. 

And as for not getting Bella, don't you think we've realised that now? But we did get Bella and that's all history, we can't change time.. She's happy, were happy. End of.  

Anyway, I'll stop rambling.. 
If I ever had a dog (hopefully getting my first ever puppy late this year/early next) then I don't think i would ever rehome, because of something the dog did, that's not how i work.


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## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> But to all those people who have said they would rehome If the dog bit a child...
> 
> In the assumption that you would vet check and work with a Behaviourist, and therefore try to address the problem..
> 
> Why would u rehome and make it someone else's problem. Or else risk your dog sitting in a cold,lonely kennel indefinitely..


You dont seem to be considering how the child would be left after such an unprovoked attack.
What if the child become exetremely terrified of the dog after being bitten and it was impossible to help the child over come the fear ?

I doubt there would be much that would leave me wanting to rehome either of my dogs, but a serious unprovoked attack, would most likely result in the police being called and the dog being PTS regardless... but it would have to be something serious that left either me or my Child too scared of the dog to beable to help it appropriately.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Yes you can never underestimate the impact of a serious dog bite. In my professional life I have dealt with many many (hundreds) dog bites. Horrendous physically and psychologically honestly. When you see the damage a small dog can do , let alone a large breed it is hard to believe. Last year I treated a small child who lost his eye when his grandmothers pampered yorkie launched himself at the child ,when he cuddled his grandmother whilst yorkie was on his knee. This child will be effected all his life. The guilt the family feel will also effect them all. Thankfully they has the dog put down.
so I know from my experience that a large majority of these attacks by dogs,were result of owners treating their dogs like babies/children/equals because they were the result of jealousy, over guarding/protecting, being allowed to become over dominant.
I have the hard way that dogs need to know their place. They are not humans.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Yes you can never underestimate the impact of a serious dog bite. In my professional life I have dealt with many many (hundreds) dog bites. Horrendous physically and psychologically honestly. When you see the damage a small dog can do , let alone a large breed it is hard to believe. Last year I treated a small child who lost his eye when his grandmothers pampered yorkie launched himself at the child ,when he cuddled his grandmother whilst yorkie was on his knee. This child will be effected all his life. The guilt the family feel will also effect them all. Thankfully they has the dog put down.
> so I know from my experience that a large majority of these attacks by dogs,were result of owners treating their dogs like babies/children/equals because they were the result of jealousy, over guarding/protecting, being allowed to become over dominant.
> I have the hard way that dogs need to know their place. They are not humans.


You're addressing this to the wrong people imo. None of us on here (at least I don't think so) treat their dogs like humans.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Sorry was not meaning to offend just reading through lots threads I can see dogs being treated like humans for example, sleeping in your bed(yuk),comparison to children, giving a diet that many homeless people would envy, being unable to leave dog, buying birthday cards, dressing dogs up, giving dogs attributes that they do not have. I could go on but i have come across a lot of posts that indicate humanisation of dogs. 
Even a few that have said they would "die" for their dog, now that is just worrying to me


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Sorry was not meaning to offend just reading through lots threads I can see dogs being treated like humans for example, sleeping in your bed(yuk),comparison to children, giving a diet that many homeless people would envy, being unable to leave dog, buying birthday cards, dressing dogs up, giving dogs attributes that they do not have. I could go on but i have come across a lot of posts that indicate humanisation of dogs.
> Even a few that have said they would "die" for their dog, now that is just worrying to me


To values one life, you dont have to 'make' it or even 'treat' it as something its not!


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Yes you can never underestimate the impact of a serious dog bite. In my professional life I have dealt with many many (hundreds) dog bites. Horrendous physically and psychologically honestly. When you see the damage a small dog can do , let alone a large breed it is hard to believe. Last year I treated a small child who lost his eye when his grandmothers pampered yorkie launched himself at the child ,when he cuddled his grandmother whilst yorkie was on his knee. This child will be effected all his life. The guilt the family feel will also effect them all. Thankfully they has the dog put down.


Thankful for who though? The dog was failed from the off, and then its life was ended because he acted in a way that is expected from a dog treated as such. - The dog knows no better.
The owners failed this dog, a child got hurt and to make it easy the dog was PTS.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

You surely could not justify the dog being kept alive in such circumstances.
Yeh the owner let the dog down by pampering it and treating it as an equal, rather than a dog. No boundaries between owner and dog equals disaster. I am sure the family is paying the price through guilt anyway


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> To values one life, you dont have to 'make' it or even 'treat' it as something its not!


Sorry. Do not understand your point, there is plenty of evidence of the humanising of dogs on the forum


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Sorry was not meaning to offend just reading through lots threads I can see dogs being treated like humans for example, sleeping in your bed(yuk),comparison to children, giving a diet that many homeless people would envy, being unable to leave dog, buying birthday cards, dressing dogs up, giving dogs attributes that they do not have. I could go on but i have come across a lot of posts that indicate humanisation of dogs.
> Even a few that have said they would "die" for their dog, now that is just worrying to me


OK. My Labrador is a dog. I treat her like a dog. The reason she eats well is because dog nutrition is simple - they need protein in the form of meat as the main constituent of their diet. She sleeps on our bed because we allow her to, I gave her an extra special birthday fuss last year and had some friends dogs round to celebrate, and I once put a T shirt on her after she was spayed so she wouldn't irritate her stitches.

This may be, in your opinion, 'humanisation' of my dog, but I would like to know if, in your opinion, any of this has affected my dog adversely?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Yes you can never underestimate the impact of a serious dog bite. In my professional life I have dealt with many many (hundreds) dog bites. Horrendous physically and psychologically honestly. When you see the damage a small dog can do , let alone a large breed it is hard to believe. Last year I treated a small child who lost his eye when his grandmothers pampered yorkie launched himself at the child ,when he cuddled his grandmother whilst yorkie was on his knee. This child will be effected all his life. The guilt the family feel will also effect them all. Thankfully they has the dog put down.
> so I know from my experience that a large majority of these attacks by dogs,were result of owners treating their dogs like babies/children/equals because they were the result of jealousy, over guarding/protecting, being allowed to become over dominant.
> I have the hard way that dogs need to know their place. They are not humans.


Thats resource guarding, and nothing to do with dominance, which is outdated and has been disproved by numerous professionals on a scientific level.

It has zero to do with treating a dog like a human/equal.


Georgee said:


> Sorry was not meaning to offend just reading through lots threads I can see dogs being treated like humans for example, sleeping in your bed(yuk),comparison to children, giving a diet that many homeless people would envy, being unable to leave dog, buying birthday cards, dressing dogs up, giving dogs attributes that they do not have. I could go on but i have come across a lot of posts that indicate humanisation of dogs.
> Even a few that have said they would "die" for their dog, now that is just worrying to me


Not meaning to offend, yet all you've done is come on here and be rude to everyone, and berate them for how they wish to treat to their dogs, and how they wish to feel about them and the value they place on their lives and position in the family.

What difference does it make to you how other people treat their dogs? I can't fathom how it could possibly affect you in any way shape or form.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Georgee said:


> You surely could not justify the dog being kept alive in such circumstances.
> Yeh the owner let the dog down by pampering it and treating it as an equal, rather than a dog. No boundaries between owner and dog equals disaster. I am sure the family is paying the price through guilt anyway


I doubt the family are paying through guilt, or they wouldnt have ever put the dog into such a situation in the first place, they would have done right by the dog - so that others were safe around it.
- If everyone had their dogs PTS because of their mistakes, there would hardly be any dogs around.

People give up far to easy, and the first port of call is 'OMG have the dog PTS' - If you cant keep the dog you contact breed rescues, experienced owners of the breeder seek advice, have a vet check ect' PTS can be a last option for alot of cases. - alot of dogs can be trained, and worked with to over come this kind of behaviour. People just are not willing. Bet they will go get another pup, and make the same mistake all over again mind, been there seen it ten times over.

Dogs will push their luck if allowed to, its expected.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Sorry. Do not understand your point, there is plenty of evidence of the humanising of dogs on the forum


I didnt say there wasnt. Simple that to value a life, doesnt mean your treating it as something its not.
For example making silly little birthday gifts/cards - doesnt mean someone believes their dogs turned into a child.
- Risking their life to save their dog, doesnt mean they think its a child - simply means they value their pets life.

(I use them two examples, as its what you mentioned)


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

just wanted to add, I detest the attitude of some who accuse childless couples of replacing the child shaped hole in their lives with a dog. I have been accused of it myself and it irritates the heck out of me. I'm 24, I don't want and am not ready for a child yet and no, I didn't get a dog instead!!


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

People who have said that you can't reasonably answer the question until it actually happened...

I say that I can. Irrelevant of what happened. Illness/loss of job/personal tragedy... I would not put them in a kennel and hope that a perfect home will come along. 

There are some of us who could and some who couldnt


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Thats resource guarding, and nothing to do with dominance, which is outdated and has been disproved by numerous professionals on a scientific level.
> 
> It has zero to do with treating a dog like a human/equal.
> 
> ...


I thought it was a forum debate my opinion is as valid as yours.
I believe the way people treat their dogs does effect me, in my job I have stitched up those who are the victims of dog bites so the way dogs are treated is my business
I cannot believe that people are advocating saving a dog who took a child eye out, regardless of the cause


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> People who have said that you can't reasonably answer the question until it actually happened...
> 
> I say that I can. Irrelevant of what happened. Illness/loss of job/personal tragedy... I would not put them in a kennel and hope that a perfect home will come along.
> 
> There are some of us who could and some who couldnt


I think with a certain type or breed of dog, you could. Depending on reason for rehoming though. I would never palm off a dog with workable problems, just because i couldnt be assed.

But, as you know having the dogs you do and volunteering with RR, that some dogs just wont stand a chance and their futures would be bleak.

That would be my main reason for avoiding rescue and going down the PTS route.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

It shocks me how folk moan on here about rescues putting down healthy dogs, yet would do the same to theirs if they could no longer keep their dogs


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> I cannot believe that people are advocating saving a dog who took a child eye out, regardless of the cause


Probably because your understanding of dogs and their behaviour is limited to old fashioned and incorrect thinking.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> It shocks me how folk moan on here about rescues putting down healthy dogs, yet would do the same to theirs if they could no longer keep their dogs


Isn't that the reality of the situation though DD? Dogs being PTS for no good reason on a daily basis?

Maybe if people didn't give up so easily, then "problem" dogs wouldnt languish in kennels for months, if not years, on end.

For me, my dogs are mine until the end. Ive sacrificed everything for them, kept them despite losing my job, put them first constantly, and made sure all their needs are constantly met.

So yes, i would PTS before rehoming, because if i cant solve the issue with them, then i cant see how giving them up would change anything. Maybe, if they werent so old, and i knew the home they were going to, i might consider it under extraordinary circumstances, such as my impending death. But i cant really see any other reason under which id have to rehome tbh.

Thankfully, they'd have to prize them from my cold dead hands before that ever happened, and thank **** they dont have any issues apart form costing a small fortune.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> I think with a certain type or breed of dog, you could. Depending on reason for rehoming though. I would never palm off a dog with workable problems, just because i couldnt be assed.
> 
> But, as you know having the dogs you do and volunteering with RR, that some dogs just wont stand a chance and their futures would be bleak.
> 
> That would be my main reason for avoiding rescue and going down the PTS route.


I do think that most dogs will get a home eventually. But for me I wouldn't take the risk that it could take a couple of years.

And I guess having dogs with a few issues means that I know they probably won't get the pick of homes


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I wouldn't ever complain about rescues putting healthy dogs to sleep. Just sheer numbers means it impossible to keep every one alive.
I still couldn't pass my own dogs on though.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Surely for some dogs euthanasia is the answer, better than forever in a rescue kennels. I volunteered in past in kennels and no matter how kind people were the dogs had no real quality of life and certainly not enough exercise, due to the numbers.there were 50 plus dogs and they struggled to get walkers during the day mon to fri due to work commitments. Lots of the barky bigger dogs were looked over , strangely also plain black crosses were less popular than other colours or those with markings, long hair.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

> Surely for some dogs euthanasia is he answer, better than forever in a rescue kennels.


no ones disputing that - I am certainly not, my problem is alot of folk seem to have the opinion of if I cant have my dog, no one can - I see no reason why someone can spend the time to select a decent home for their dog if their no longer in the position to look after it, go back to breeder, seek advice from others ect' - a happy, healthy we adjusted dog will do well in any home, as long as its with the 'right' type of owner.
- neauter first, you also have less chance of attracting idiots.


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

If Daisy were to attack or try and attack one of the cats then I think we'd have to find her a new home (cat's were here first!). But she's been very good so far with them. Other than that not a lot really.

That doesn't work the other way round by the way (cats attacking the dog) both Pebbles and Smurf have smacked Daisy in the face for getting too close The cats rule this house so not a lot I can do about it. Luckily we keep their claws trimmed, so it's only Daisy's pride thats scarred, not her face!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> no ones disputing that - I am certainly not, my problem is alot of folk seem to have the opinion of if I cant have my dog, no one can - I see no reason why someone can spend the time to select a decent home for their dog if their no longer in the position to look after it, go back to breeder, seek advice from others ect' - a happy, healthy we adjusted dog will do well in any home, as long as its with the 'right' type of owner.
> - neauter first, you also have less chance of attracting idiots.


Surely it would depend on the reason for rehoming.

For most people on here who have stated PTS as the only option, the reason behind the decision would have to be a very severe one and mostly stems from aggression purposes.

If an owner isnt prepared to deal long term with such a behavioural issue, it it morally right to pass the buck to someone else?

I thought this thread was about what issues/problems a dog would have to have to rehome, not rehoming in general.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> no ones disputing that - I am certainly not, my problem is alot of folk seem to have the opinion of if I cant have my dog, no one can - I see no reason why someone can spend the time to select a decent home for their dog if their no longer in the position to look after it, go back to breeder, seek advice from others ect' - a happy, healthy we adjusted dog will do well in any home, as long as its with the 'right' type of owner.
> - neauter first, you also have less chance of attracting idiots.


Definitely agree with neutering think there should be more done to encourage this and more incentives to get it done. Did the blue cross not talk about only offering their cheap treatment if owners neutered?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

> If Daisy were to attack or try and attack one of the cats then I think we'd have to find her a new home (cat's were here first!). But she's been very good so far with them. Other than that not a lot really.


so you wouldnt try and resolve the issue. - The first 6 to 8 weeks after we brought in our second rescue cat, mums at the time Italian Spinone tried to attack her each day - after time, patients and hard work they lived along side each other. I wouldnt say they liked each other, but certainly tolerated one and other right up until Fable (the Spinone) left us a few months ago.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

> If an owner isnt prepared to deal long term with such a behavioural issue, it it morally right to pass the buck to someone else?


alot of owners are not prepared, hence failing the dog - in that situation the dog should be found a new home, regardless of if present owner can keep the dog or not. no dog deserves to be with someone not prepared to deal with problems. There are people around that can help, maybe them out of the rescue circles dont know this, or dont want to know.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> alot of owners are not prepared, hence failing the dog - in that situation the dog should be found a new home, regardless of if present owner can keep the dog or not. no dog deserves to be with someone not prepared to deal with problems. There are people around that can help, maybe them out of the rescue circles dont know this, or dont want to know.


But the reality of this situation is that that just isnt possible.

For every one dog with a workable behavioural probnlem that is helped, there's probably about 20 that are PTS.

The amount of people willing and able are in the minority, and rescues just don't have the finanaces.

No dog deserves to be PTS for no real reason, no dog deserves an owner that can't be bothered to put in the effort, but thats how the rescue situation is right now.

Don't forget DD, you deal with the rescue side of a breed that doesnt have a huge number in kennels/foster homes compared to some others. I wonder if you dealt with a more over populated breed like the SBT or greyhound, if your opinion may change slightly when you see the overwhelming facts and figures.

At this point in time, we can't save them all, which is why i would PTS rather than add to the crisis, as realistically, that would be the eventual outcome for dogs like mine anyway.

Unless JSR takes them.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

I get what your saying about our breed with smaller numbers in rescue, this is why we also work with two other small rescues - I understand that the numbers are high with breeds such at the staffs, I really am not moaning here at folk that wish to have their dogs PTS if they can no longer keep them and they have issues. I just cant understand folk that would have them PTS, knowing they have no issues (without) trying first to find them a suitable home. Im not even meaning put them in rescue, I mean they do the work, return to breeder or the like.

There are experienced owners within breeds that help rescues, with the tough to rehome dogs with 'issues'. - this doesnt affect 20 other dogs that are up for adoption, because they people are not rehoming, just working with these dogs.
I understand rescues have to PTS - my issue isnt with them, its with the owners that PTS without a thought to exploring other options first.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> . I just cant understand folk that would have them PTS, knowing they have no issues (without) trying first to find them a suitable home. Im not even meaning put them in rescue, I mean they do the work, return to breeder or the like.
> 
> There are experienced owners within breeds that help rescues, with the tough to rehome dogs with 'issues'. - this doesnt affect 20 other dogs that are up for adoption, because they people are not rehoming, just working with these dogs.
> I understand rescues have to PTS - my issue isnt with them, its with the owners that PTS without a thought to exploring other options first.


Well this i agree with 100%.

To PTS with no justifiable reason is wrong imo, and smacks of laziness and lack of commitment on the owners part.

I was just trying to stay on topic for once.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I've already said my rescues have their own issues and will never be passed on, no matter what they'd done.
My Springer from a pup, doesn't have anything wrong as such but she is VERY sensitive. I'm afraid I 'think' if it came to it I probably would have her put to sleep rather than pass her on. I certainly wouldn't return her to her breeder. I just couldn't take the risk. I've also seen what shes like when a food doesn't agree with her and shes a nightmare..
She's my dog and she will never go anywhere.
If that makes me selfish, then I'm selfish.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Georgee said:


> I thought it was a forum debate my opinion is as valid as yours.
> I believe the way people treat their dogs does effect me, in my job I have stitched up those who are the victims of dog bites so the way dogs are treated is my business
> I cannot believe that people are advocating saving a dog who took a child eye out, regardless of the cause


Unfortunately there are a lot of fanatics on this forum who would probably advocate saving a dog that took a child's throat out as it could not possibly be the dog's fault


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i cant think of anything my dogs would have to do to have me rehome any of them tbh.....if one did have some serious behavioural issue im sure if i couldnt sort it then i could find a way we could live with it. 

Ellie my old mongrel had perhaps the most serious issue out of any of my dogs...and that was biting she was very unpredictable around most children....i trusted her completely with my own two plus a handful of their friends but all other kids...no! but we coped okay, i just had to be extra vigilant when we had kids round to play, no way would i have rehomed her or had her pts.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Georgee said:


> There in lies the issue then . It's about human needs to replace relationships with people with dogs. It's way easier to get on with a dog, they do not talk back, cannot argue with you and you can control them. Way easier than having adult to adult relationships. Dogs needs are simple, humans are complex.


If you believe that, you`re not doing it right. Animals do communicate. Maybe you`re not listening because you believe you are `above` them? 
If your dog and yourself were abandoned on an island - the dog would survive. You wouldn`t. 
My dogs and I live in a family. They repel burglars, I fit the locks. They are trained, using their natural aptitudes and skills. Their senses are all superior to mine. Their physical skills are all superior to mine. I admire their beauty, grace and strength and they are in awe of my ability to turn up with big dead animals at regular intervals.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

> I've already said my rescues have their own issues and will never be passed on, no matter what they'd done.
> My Springer from a pup, doesn't have anything wrong as such but she is VERY sensitive. I'm afraid I 'think' if it came to it I probably would have her put to sleep rather than pass her on. I certainly wouldn't return her to her breeder. I just couldn't take the risk. I've also seen what shes like when a food doesn't agree with her and shes a nightmare..
> She's my dog and she will never go anywhere.
> If that makes me selfish, then I'm selfish.


But your springer could potentially go on to have many happy years alive with someone else?

I would NEVER have my dogs put to sleep because I think that someone else couldn't manage them - one would probably be really hard to rehome but it wouldn't stop me trying

(he is a male brindle staffie x, who can be possessive until he knows another dog, can be a bit reactive if bothered until he knows another dog so easily workable if someone knows how and is prepared to put a bit of effort in, but he has spine damage and a incurable brain tumour) Even so he is only 5, a fantastic dog good with cats and amazing with children... but I doubt anyone would take him on fo rthe time he had left but would see ....

The difference is I think if a dog was passed on due to a behaviour I couldn't cope with and would be passing on a problem that could do harm to others etc then would consider it as a last option.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Probably because your understanding of dogs and their behaviour is limited to old fashioned and incorrect thinking.


Sorry what is old fashioned about putting a dog down that took a Childs eye out?


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I agree that the yorkie would need to be put down.. the hows and whys as to how s/he got to that situation could be debated, but I am sure the family would not want to keep them any more and how could you ever be reassured something similar couldn't happen again?

You could aim to find the perfect child free home etc, but theres no guarantees.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> I doubt the family are paying through guilt, or they wouldnt have ever put the dog into such a situation in the first place, they would have done right by the dog - so that others were safe around it.
> - If everyone had their dogs PTS because of their mistakes, there would hardly be any dogs around.
> 
> People give up far to easy, and the first port of call is 'OMG have the dog PTS' - If you cant keep the dog you contact breed rescues, experienced owners of the breeder seek advice, have a vet check ect' PTS can be a last option for alot of cases. - alot of dogs can be trained, and worked with to over come this kind of behaviour. People just are not willing. Bet they will go get another pup, and make the same mistake all over again mind, been there seen it ten times over.
> ...


Wrong the family were distraught imagine your child being maimed likebthat. I know they had to go to counselling to help them recover. The child would Not go near another dog they will never recover


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

He'd have to pack his own bag and climb down some sheets from the bedroom window while I was asleep.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm afraid I dont have that much faith in human nature. I have done a lot of fostering and seen the damage done. I wouldn't want anything happening to her or the others.
When I took her on she became MY responsability for the rest of her life.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> If you believe that, you`re not doing it right. Animals do communicate. Maybe you`re not listening because you believe you are `above` them?
> If your dog and yourself were abandoned on an island - the dog would survive. You wouldn`t.
> My dogs and I live in a family. They repel burglars, I fit the locks. They are trained, using their natural aptitudes and skills. Their senses are all superior to mine. Their physical skills are all superior to mine. I admire their beauty, grace and strength and they are in awe of my ability to turn up with big dead animals at regular intervals.


Never said dogs didn't have different skills to us, just said their physiology and psychology are not as advanced are ours, that's fact not opinion:001_tt1:


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Never said dogs didn't have different skills to us, just said their physiology and psychology are not as advanced are ours, that's fact not opinion:001_tt1:


Their physiology isn't advanced as ours? What a strange thing to say.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Unfortunately there are a lot of fanatics on this forum who would probably advocate saving a dog that took a child's throat out as it could not possibly be the dog's fault


I am quite taken aback that there was not more balanced views on this, you can be a dog lover without being totally fanatical about dogs. Thought folk would be able to see things from a less bias view


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

bearcub said:


> Their physiology isn't advanced as ours? What a strange thing to say.


Example fine motor skills does your dog have pincer grip, manual dexterity or the ability to draw? Of course humans have more complex skills physically to suggest otherwise ???:cursing:


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Example fine motor skills does your dog have pincer grip, manual dexterity or the ability to draw? Of course humans have more complex skills physically to suggest otherwise ???:cursing:


Can you digest a vole or eat a rancid rabbit carcass with absolutely no signs of detriment to your health? No? Well my Labrador can. 

On a more serious note, there's plenty of things that dogs can do that humans can't, physiology isn't a bl**dy competition! It's not about superiority. There's a difference between my physiology and an inuit's physiology, doesn't make either of us superior.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Example fine motor skills does your dog have pincer grip, manual dexterity or the ability to draw? Of course humans have more complex skills physically to suggest otherwise ???:cursing:


Oh and my Labrador has great dexterity with her paws, she can hold her knife and fork just fine when she's sitting at the table thank you


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

No it's not competition I used merely a few examples to illustrate but are u really saying dogs are our equals??????


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

bearcub said:


> Can you digest a vole or eat a rancid rabbit carcass with absolutely no signs of detriment to your health? No? Well my Labrador can.
> 
> On a more serious note, there's plenty of things that dogs can do that humans can't, physiology isn't a bl**dy competition! It's not about superiority. There's a difference between my physiology and an inuit's physiology, doesn't make either of us superior.


Yeh if hungry enough I probably could digest a vole but would pass on rancid rabbit, do not let my mutts eat themes they **** for British afterwards:smile5:


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> No it's not competition I used merely a few examples to illustrate but are u really saying dogs are our equals??????


Oh blah blah blah, your dogs are below you, and you like to remind them of that on a regular basis - yes we all get the picture.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> No it's not competition I used merely a few examples to illustrate but are u really saying dogs are our equals??????


I think its common knowledge that humans are the dominant species on this planet. Although take away our technology, or have a nuclear war, and i imagine there would be a dramatic shift.

However, we are talking about pets that share our homes and lives, and i see no problem with an owner viewing and treating their dogs as equals.

Its personal choice after all.

Different courses....


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

bearcub said:


> Oh blah blah blah, your dogs are below you, and you like to remind them of that on a regular basis - yes we all get the picture.


Rude reply I think


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Rude reply I think


born out of your inability to concede that, in this instance, you're opinion is not shared!


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Rude reply I think


Well I'm sure you'll be proved right when my Labrador has mauled my face off because I didn't put her in her place enough.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Not read all of this thread BUT cannot think of any real genuine reason to rehome either of my dogs.

IF they unprovokedly attacked one of my children or a child then this would need to be carefully considered. However if I thought they were capable of doing it again then I will feel very uncomfortable of getting them rehomed anyhow....


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

My dog is not human or has no human qualities, I can think of nothing better way to insult her.

She is not below me, she is my equal.

She is my dog, she is my friend, she is my protector and without her I do not feel safe.

Maya is not a child replacement, I do not like children and do not want any. If she a bit a child I would not put her down, instead I would keep her muzzled and continue to work with her.

If I needed to rehome her I would only hand her over to her breed rescue because I feel they would understand her for who she is as part of her breed and not because she's another number in kennels.

My previous dog slept in my bed and provided deep pressure thearpy for me amongst many things he saved my life and I would have given my life to save his.

I value and treasure the friendship and companionship I have gained through my dogs and dogs I will continue to have. There is no Master, I do not dominate or bully my dog, I simply ask things of her and I get what I want & so does she.

I took on a broken dog, someone's unwanted rubbish and gained a beautiful friend who I love, respect and trust. 

I may be dog "crazy" but I know they way I treat my dog is the way I feel best and any one who dosen't like it can F'off as it's none of their business.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Georgee, I'm sure you're only here to cause trouble as in your first post you put,"Keen to enter into any debates on dogs". Which tells me you aren't here because you care/like dogs but more of the matter you want to get into debates.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Well I can only say I am rather upset by responses. I naively thought everyone could share opinions on a dog forum. Having never used one before iwas clearly naive.
I love dogs as dogs. I have had dogs for over 40years all been well behaved and loved. But I do not accept they are equal to humans does not mean I am a bad dog owner. I would attest that my dogs no worse off for this belief as I treat them with respect as animals and my focus is on THEIR needs not mine:smile5:


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Well I can only say I am rather upset by responses. I naively thought everyone could share opinions on a dog forum. Having never used one before iwas clearly naive.
> I love dogs as dogs. I have had dogs for over 40years all been well behaved and loved. But I do not accept they are equal to humans does not mean I am a bad dog owner. I would attest that my dogs no worse off for this belief as I treat them with respect as animals and my focus is on THEIR needs not mine:smile5:


You can share your opinions, but you have to accpet others may not share them, and will also voice theirs.

How you put your opinion across leaves a bit to be desired tbh. Your insinuations are rather ignorant and arrogant.

How long you have owned dogs is not an accurate reflection of your knowledge.

You seem to have a problem with how people chose to raise and treat their dogs.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Its each to there own George, aslong as people dont neglect their dogs I dont care what they do. Who are we to judge anyone.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

DKDREAM said:


> Its each to there own George, aslong as people dont neglect their dogs I dont care what they do. Who are we to judge anyone.


Yes I agree to an extent but if the way they are raising dogs is damaging other then surely it is an issue. Well first time I have been called arrogant at my age maybe a compliment :smile5:


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Georgee said:


> Yes I agree to an extent but if the way they are raising dogs is damaging other then surely it is an issue. Well first time I have been called arrogant at my age maybe a compliment :smile5:


Sorry i don't understand you, what do you mean.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

I believe there is link between dogs who are raised as babies,children,equals to dogs who bite see my previous posts x


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## abbiechi (Jul 2, 2011)

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Phoebe is like my child and of course I do have the advantage of her being small so of course everything is divided by 90% but I made the decision to go and get her so she's my responsibility for life.

It's the same with a child, if I had a teenager who took drugs, got arrested and was generally an absolute s***, I wouldn't give up on them but I would give them a good hiding. It's the same with Phoebe, although I'd never lay a finger on her. 


































We're working on the drugs though.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Again I would hate to be your child, if you have any, being compared to a dog! Does nobody else see this as so wrong!:cursing:


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Missed the bit about giving her a good hiding!,,, omg:cursing:Are you serious


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> I believe there is link between dogs who are raised as babies,children,equals to dogs who bite see my previous posts x


Based on what exactly? What research? What studies?

Because one of the most common factors in fatal and serious dog bites, is the dog being kennelled and chained outside, and not being an intergral part of the family.

I think you're bullshitting about your job tbh, and you just have an issue with how people treat their dogs for whatever reason.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

The way I see the whole 'raising a dog as a child, my dog is equal to children' thing etc is this...

I'm 24 and have a boyfriend who I have been with for 5 years. I plan to have a baby at some point in the next 10 years. Nature has given me maternal instincts than for me, need some sort of outlet. I'm quite a caring and loving person with my family and friends anyway, quite a maternal sort of person. So, for the time being, Florence is the main source of my maternal feelings. I care for her like I would a child - just on a more simplistic level as her needs are fairly easy to meet. 

When a child does come along into my life, and I have Florence, or another dog, my dogs needs will still be met. I'm even thinking about how I would do all the walking at this early stage! My children will be expected to respect the dogs just as any other member of the family, and the children will have to understand that the dogs need for a walk is just as important as their need to play with their toys. 

How can any of this be wrong?!


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Based on what exactly? What research? What studies?
> 
> Because one of the most common factors in fatal and serious dog bites, is the dog being kennelled and chained outside, and not being an intergral part of the family.
> 
> I think you're bullshitting about your job tbh, and you just have an issue with how people treat their dogs for whatever reason.


Sometimes I wish I was:cursing: in the cases I have dealt with over years majority of bites were from much pampered dogs who did not like to share their owner with others, only 30 years experience no research:smile5:


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## Paula07 (Aug 23, 2010)

Well...

If i was moving, pregnant, going on holiday, they got too big for the house etc i would of course get rid of them.

Absolutely nothing!


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Sometimes I wish I was:cursing: in the cases I have dealt with over years majority of bites were from much pampered dogs who did not like to share their owner with others, only 30 years experience no research:smile5:


Are you like, a dog bite specialist or something? :lol:


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Sometimes I wish I was:cursing: in the cases I have dealt with over years majority of bites were from much pampered dogs who did not like to share their owner with others, only 30 years experience no research:smile5:


Yes of course you have, completely believeable.

I mean, people never make stuff up on the internet do they?

And im sure in your "profession" you've conducted indepth interviews with the victims and the dogs owner, and observed first hand the dogs behaviour whislt patching them up.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Georgee said:


> I believe there is link between dogs who are raised as babies,children,equals to dogs who bite see my previous posts x


Do you have any *evidence* to back up your belief?


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

I wouldnt get rid but if any dog attacked my kids and it was serious i wouldnt have it in my house and i wouldnt risk it attacking another child.
But considering almost all dog attacks on children are caused because the dog and child were left unsupervised i dont think i have alot to worry about.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

harley bear said:


> I wouldnt get rid but if any dog attacked my kids and it was serious i wouldnt have it in my house and i wouldnt risk it attacking another child.
> *But considering almost all dog attacks on children are caused because the dog and child were left unsupervised *i dont think i have alot to worry about.


So true. I was bitten twice by dogs when I was a child, both times I was left unsupervised with them. The first was a GSD who grabbed my arm, I had to have a tetanus, the second was a Collie who nipped my leg and made it bleed. I don't look back in anger at those dogs, it was partly my fault for being over excitable with the dogs, and partly the adult's fault for allowing a young child to play with the dogs unsupervised, especially herding breeds who are known to nip.

These dogs weren't put down or rehomed! I'm sure the adults in question questioned whether their dogs should be trusted around children again, but no harm done. I'm certainly not traumatised.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

When i as a kid i visited a friend who had an irish Wolfhoundy thing

We were clearly told NOT to go in the kitchen where the dog was. Friends Mum took a phone call, friend let very large very excited dog into lounge that promptly jumped up at me and caught my lip. This was NOT a bite and this dog was not being aggressive but i needed a stitch. Lesson learnt on my part really.

The owners came round with big teddy and offered to have the dog PTS  I was mortified that it was my fault and insisted they didnt 

Dogs are dogs and they have teeth, don't speak our language and no aposable thumbs.

Alot of dog bites on children are down to lax parenting and a child that hasnt been taught the warning signs that MOST dogs WILL give before resorting to a bite.

I have turned round to find strangers toddlers draped over my spaniel trying to kiss him FFS while parents stood saying AWWwwww :cursing: 

Thats got F All to do with hierachy or teachng pack place it is about simple respect for an animal.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I have turned round to find strangers toddlers draped over my spaniel trying to kiss him FFS while parents stood saying AWWwwww :cursing: :rolleyes


I have this so much with Maya, it's lucky she's so friendly but when i said it was ok to pet her didn't mean you can throw yourself on her.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Sorry was not meaning to offend just reading through lots threads I can see dogs being treated like humans for example, . . . giving a diet that many homeless people would envy. . .


Since our dogs depend on us for their health and well-being, I hardly see your point in this particular example. Feeding the best diet possible is neither a sign of humanizing a dog nor of bad habits that people should avoid.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Georgee said:


> I believe there is link between dogs who are raised as babies,children,equals to dogs who bite see my previous posts x


well my dogs are raised like that and none bite, they are just very well cared for and loved, like a mother would there child. There are many things that can make a dog unpredictable. If i was a parent i wouldnt let my child miss behave just as i dont let my dogs.


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## abbiechi (Jul 2, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Again I would hate to be your child, if you have any, being compared to a dog! Does nobody else see this as so wrong!:cursing:


Firstly, I wouldn't take my child on walks with a lead, I wouldn't feed them dog food and I wouldn't teach them to sit. I'm referring as children being like my dog because I don't see bringing a child into this world any different from raising a puppy, it's still a RESPONSIBILITY and you still care for a LIVING BEING.



Georgee said:


> Missed the bit about giving her a good hiding!,,, omg:cursing:Are you serious


Secondly, I wasn't referring to my dog and I have no children. So get off your high horse.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

bearcub said:


> The way I see the whole 'raising a dog as a child, my dog is equal to children' thing etc is this...
> 
> I'm 24 and have a boyfriend who I have been with for 5 years. I plan to have a baby at some point in the next 10 years. Nature has given me maternal instincts than for me, need some sort of outlet. I'm quite a caring and loving person with my family and friends anyway, quite a maternal sort of person. So, for the time being, Florence is the main source of my maternal feelings. I care for her like I would a child - just on a more simplistic level as her needs are fairly easy to meet.
> 
> ...


It isn't... but in the context of this thread I think the kind of pampering we are talking about is the sort of pampering you'd see in "Pamp my Pooch" on the "Extreme Pampering Channel". No no.. put the TV guide down.. I just made it up. I can give an example of a dog which spent all it's time as a child substitute in a baby carrier not being very well adjusted. I pamper my pooch.. but I pamper him as a dog... and I think you do to.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

diefenbaker said:


> It isn't... but in the context of this thread I think the kind of pampering we are talking about is the sort of pampering you'd see in "Pamp my Pooch" on the "Extreme Pampering Channel". No no.. put the TV guide down.. I just made it up. I can give an example of a dog which spent all it's time as a child substitute in a baby carrier not being very well adjusted. I pamper my pooch.. but I pamper him as a dog... and I think you do to.


Excellent point  hadn't thought of it like that. I certainly don't put Florence in a baby carrier 

Would love to watch the Extreme Pampering Channel though


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

abbiechi said:


> Firstly, I wouldn't take my child on walks with a lead, I wouldn't feed them dog food and I wouldn't teach them to sit. I'm referring as children being like my dog because I don't see bringing a child into this world any different from raising a puppy, it's still a RESPONSIBILITY and you still care for a LIVING BEING.
> 
> Secondly, I wasn't referring to my dog and I have no children. So get off your high horse.


Hello you made the point of comparing having a troubled dog to having a daughter on drugs and giving her a good hiding:huh: think that was an insensitive thing to say but sorry if you felt i was on a high pony!


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Hello you made the point of comparing having a troubled dog to having a daughter on drugs and giving her a good hiding:huh: think that was an insensitive thing to say but sorry if you felt i was on a high pony!


Wow. I'm speechless.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Yeh so was I glad you agree:smile5:


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Yeh so was I glad you agree:smile5:


I'm speechless at your insistence on certain ridiculous points, actually


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## abbiechi (Jul 2, 2011)

I'm not comparing the two, I'm simply saying that if you had a problem teenager you wouldn't get rid of them, the same as a troubled dog.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> I'm speechless at your insistence on certain ridiculous points, actually


Do not think was making any ridiculous points. Just points you , others disagree with. My view point is based on many years of experience as a dog owner and someone who has dealt with the trauma caused by some dogs. 
I am entitled to believe what I do as it aint naive or gut feeling but based on evidence I have seen/ experienced
Sorry I made you speechless


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## billie jo (Feb 17, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Dear oh dear I feel for your daughter if she has the same ranking in your life as your dog. Words fail me


Really Georgee?? - from what I have been reading - I didn't think words would ever fail you ....


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Georgee said:


> Hello you made the point of comparing having a troubled dog to having a daughter on drugs and giving her a good hiding:huh: think that was an insensitive thing to say but sorry if you felt i was on a high pony!


I think you have raised some good ppints throughout this thread, but you have done it in a way in which puts people's backs up.

I agree that too many people see their dog as something to be merely spoiled and there is not enough discipline. I also believe this is a reason for a large amount of behavioural problems.

Dogs are not our equals. They would not survive in our world without us. The same as we would not fare as well in their ancestors environment. However they are In our world and so therefore that makes us the more dominant partner (lol wait for the backlash at that word).

My dogs are my family. As imporant as any family member. I will always put their needs first. To suggest otherwise is disrespectful to peoole


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> I think you have raised some good ppints throughout this thread, but you have done it in a way in which puts people's backs up.
> 
> I agree that too many people see their dog as something to be merely spoiled and there is not enough discipline. I also believe this is a reason for a large amount of behavioural problems.
> 
> ...


I agree with this, a dog would never rank the same as a child in my house, they are part of the family but kids come first here. That doesn't mean i would discard a dog at the drop of a hat, i have woked through issues many parents wouln't have done with Oscar because i think i take a simple pragmatic and realitic approach to dog ownership, I am prepared to accept my own failings and work damn hard to safeguard my kids and Oscar. In my opinion he is as safe round children as any dog could be but i am still not complacent.


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> so you wouldnt try and resolve the issue. - The first 6 to 8 weeks after we brought in our second rescue cat, mums at the time Italian Spinone tried to attack her each day - after time, patients and hard work they lived along side each other. I wouldnt say they liked each other, but certainly tolerated one and other right up until Fable (the Spinone) left us a few months ago.


Yes I'd like to, but I think if 3-4 years down the line she ripped apart one of the cats then we wouldn't want to take the risk with the others. Although I don't see why she would ever do that, she's been great with them.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

abbiechi said:


> I'm not comparing the two, I'm simply saying that if you had a problem teenager you wouldn't get rid of them, the same as a troubled dog.


Sadly a lot of parents do 'get rid' of problem teenagers. That is how a lot end up in care or on the streets, the parents cant cope any more or do not want to cope. I personally know one person who chucked her kids out on their 16th birthday and another who chucked out her 17 year old daughter because she was a problem. Both educated parents, not druggies or lowlife in any way.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Blitz said:


> Sadly a lot of parents do 'get rid' of problem teenagers. That is how a lot end up in care or on the streets, the parents cant cope any more or do not want to cope. I personally know one person who chucked her kids out on their 16th birthday and another who chucked out her 17 year old daughter because she was a problem. Both educated parents, not druggies or lowlife in any way.


Obviously, there are a lot of bad parents, bad pet owners, and just plain bad lazy people out there in the world. In an ideal world, everyone would face up to the responsibilities they've taken on and work at them, whether they be children they brought into the world unasked, or pets they've adopted or their jobs or marriages or friendships. Unfortunately, it sadly seems to me that for a shocking number of people, all of those responsibilities are disposable items to them and they can't be bothered to put forth any effort at all when things get difficult.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Wow interesting thread! 

Just taken me half an hour to read it all, I do enjoy a good debate 

Seriously though I think valid points have been raised on both sides of the fence here, dogs are not humans and shouldn't be treated as such, if they are it can and does lead to behavioural problems, which may (or may not) have been witnessed by members on here 

HOWEVER.... I have seen no evidence on here of anyone humanizing their dogs to an extent that would cause any concern. If you want to buy your dogs birhtday cards or let them sleep in your bed then that is your business and nobody elses, and it certainly isn't going to turn them into child maimers.

I don't have children, at this point in my life I don't want children. I love my dogs, they are my main interest in my life and I do my very best for them, including feeding them the best diet I can and treating them with the respect they deserve.

Going back to the original question, there is NOTHING that THEY could do to cause me to rehome them, end of. If they did something so hideously horrendous, which would make me even consider getting rid of them then there is no way I would be passing them on to anyone else!

As others have mentioned, if MY circumstances were to drastically change (eg ill health) which meant that I wasn't capable of giving them the care and attention that they deserve then I would consider rehoming them. 

I think these views are shared with the majority of people on here? But this is an open forum and everyone is entitled to an opinion so don't get personal or take things personally and bring on the DEBATE!! 

Oh, just changes my mind.... They've jsu come charging through the house with wet muddy legs... where's the number for the RSPCA again?!


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I can certainly be accused of 'spoiling' my dog; although some of those things are things every dog should have - good food, love, two good romps a day, cuddles. I am lucky in that I can afford to choose nice foods for my dog and lucky in that all I have to worry about is researching nutrition, doesn't do anyone any harm - I have friends who are really on teh breadline and have to feed their dogs on what they can afford - so my dogs are lucky and spoilt in one way that I can pick and choose.

I am lucky in that my dog (as many do) hasn't got him any unwanted behaviours because of this, i.e. possessiveness - but of course some dogs do. 

I don't believe in old fashioned dominance or pack leadership in that dogs are trying to take over teh world with any behaviour.. I do believe they are opportunists, my dog will push some things at times and give me the big brown eyes....

I am the leader in that I decide the rules (but make sure I have trained the dogs to know what they are) I decide on the food, the tea time, the walks etc... they get to sleep in bed after the alarm goes off... but if they got possessive over it would do some training or it wouldn't happen, I wouldn't just let it ride like those families you see where the hubby has to sleep in the spare room. I am a kind leader I like to hope! They can wrap me arond their paws at times but only for things that don't bother me or cause a problem or I don't have 'rules' about. I do aim for consistency though.

I believe in kind positive methods and that many bites could be avoided if you can read the signs... one of my dogs was very possessive with raw bones; alot of people said take it off him, show him who is boss... he snapped at me tehre was no way I was taking that bone off him!! I still wanted to be able to take a bone off him if need be but using force and showing him I was boss I was likely to get snapped at or bitten. (we did it by positive reward based methods within two weeks he was bringing it to me to hold for him without any kind of force or aggression needed!)

I think alot of people have said they could manage certain kinds of aggression or if they had kids/ dogs - but tragic as it is I think that once a dog has caused a certain kind of aggression you have to be very careful... rehoming would be wrong, alot of rescues would be loath to take them on as they would have a duty of responsibility to rehome the dog and also not fair of it to sit in rescue... if the owner feels they can keep things safe its good, but for certain levels of aggression can you take that risk.... very responsible owners may be able to but theres always the 'if' factor....

I heard of an attack on a dog at the weekend; the bloke with the aggressive dog is not the most responsible owner but he had his dog on lead and muzzled. he called out a warning to the owner his dog wasn't friendly, then a more urgent my dog will attack yours; the other owner said its OK mine is friendly, didn't try to call her dog back and this dog got its muzzle of and quite badly I heard ripped into the other dog. The guy apparently isn't the best of owners but every time he leaves the house he has to worry about dogs coming up to his and that happening - its not the first time (and will hopefully be the last). His dog will suffer, as will many, for their owners not training, socialising, being aware of dog behaviour - but once a dog has done a certain amount of damage would be such a worry it would hapen again and someoen else has to pay the price.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Nothing. 

Any behavioural issues I would do my hardest to try and resolve and move the heavens and earth to ensure we could all live happily.

God forbid they had some sort of mental problem which caused random aggressiveness, I would have them PTS than re-homed. 

I'd sooner re-home my sister than my dogs!


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

For fear of going over old ground....my dogs eat a brilliant diet, my OH says better than us, when it is cold and wet and windy outside on a morning we drag ourselves out of bed and take them for a walk, when you have had a long crap day at work and come home with a banging headache like I did today you have to brace yourself against a gale force wind and go throw a ball for half an hour to tire 'redbull' terrier out before his hour socialisation walk also carried out in the gale force winds, you then get home and have to prepare chicken breast liver and veg for both dogs then do 20 mins training with them each before finally be able to sit down for 5 minutes whilst trying to squeeze in some food for us....I'm sorry but if my mum or brother rung me up in gale force winds with the rain lashing down and asked me to tramp round a field for an hour I would tell them to shove off......but I do it for the dogs. I'm normally quiet squeamish but chicken carcuss, dead rabbits, liver, kidneys I hold em all I chop em all and I strangely take great pleasure in watching both my dogs tuck into their tea. I have one bed in this house, the dogs have three (each, so six in total) they have fancy collars and nice leads and loads of toys....are my dogs spoilt, most certainly, are they babied, to a degree, Lexi loves to have a cuddle like you are cradling a baby she snuggles right into you, but my dogs are well trained poilte mannered dogs, neither are possesive, I can and many other people can take items including bone off both dogs as well as them been willing to share with each other.
I buy my dogs birthday presents and christmas presents....I don't for one minute think they have the foggiest clue what is going on but I love the look on their face when they rip their presents open and see what is inside.
Just because we spoil our dogs does NOT mean they are humanised.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

It has been interesting to read the latest posts. I Personally find the commercialisation and spoiling of dogs rather sad. As someone who cares deeply about society I find it disturbing that so much money each year is spend on frivolous items for pets. Yes give dogs attention, affection , exercise , health care and food, but no need for memory foam beds, designer dog food and fancy collars etc The pet companies are multiple million pound businesses and the phrase " seen you coming" springs to mind.
Birthday cards/cakes are about treating a dog like a human, if a dog has no conception of the meaning why not give the money spent on this to an animal rescue or other charity. Surely this would give a more feel good factor to the owner?
The irony is that today we are more than ever detached from what real animals are. Less than 2 percent of workers work in agriculture, kids think chicken nuggets have nought to with a living creature. This detachment has allowed us to increasingly humanise our pets. 
As long as there are still homeless people on the streets and kids living in poverty I could not justify spending lots of money on items a dog does not need. It just doesn't seem right. In the same way i could not spent hundreds of pounds on shoes or designer clothes. I would rather help those in need. Surely as a society we need to prioritse human welfare? Yes dogs are a lifeline to many I agree but you do not need to indulge them to be a great owner.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I do see the need for memory foam beds what if the pet has arthritis?


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

DKDREAM said:


> I do see the need for memory foam beds what if the pet has arthritis?


Yes of course I agree but in such cases that would be healthcare rather than indulgence don't you think:smile5:


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Nothing. I would not and could not.


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

if marley attacked my daughter, thats the only reason i can think of. It would be hard but as much as i love marley i love my daughter more


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## beary_clairey (Jan 23, 2011)

If I came home and they were sitting in my favourite chair, drinking my wine and eating my chocolate................out the door they would go!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> It has been interesting to read the latest posts. I Personally find the commercialisation and spoiling of dogs rather sad. As someone who cares deeply about society I find it disturbing that so much money each year is spend on frivolous items for pets. Yes give dogs attention, affection , exercise , health care and food, but no need for memory foam beds, designer dog food and fancy collars etc The pet companies are multiple million pound businesses and the phrase " seen you coming" springs to mind.
> Birthday cards/cakes are about treating a dog like a human, if a dog has no conception of the meaning why not give the money spent on this to an animal rescue or other charity. Surely this would give a more feel good factor to the owner?
> The irony is that today we are more than ever detached from what real animals are. Less than 2 percent of workers work in agriculture, kids think chicken nuggets have nought to with a living creature. This detachment has allowed us to increasingly humanise our pets.
> As long as there are still homeless people on the streets and kids living in poverty I could not justify spending lots of money on items a dog does not need. It just doesn't seem right. In the same way i could not spent hundreds of pounds on shoes or designer clothes. I would rather help those in need. Surely as a society we need to prioritse human welfare? Yes dogs are a lifeline to many I agree but you do not need to indulge them to be a great owner.


Look, we can't all be a pious martyr like you, some of us like to enjoy our lives 

Kids living in poverty, homelessness has nowt to do with the fact that my OH works damn hard (60+ hours a week) for the pittance he gets paid. It is our choice how we spend it. If we want to purchase frivolous items for our dogs then we bl**dy well will and do not need to justify it, trust me, by not having kids we have saved the tax payer a hell of a lot of money already .

Donating to charity isn't the be all and end all. Sure you give a fiver a month to Oxfam or whatever, you think that directly goes on poor starving african kids? Don't make me laugh.

There's plenty I do to help people without spending hard earned cash; popping to the shop to grab some essentials for the old lady next door, walking neighbour's dog, picking up litter in the local park etc.

Stop judging the people on here. Honestly, likening the fact that I splash out and spend a tenner on a new collar for my dog once in a while to buying designer shoes is ridiculous  You must be using a computer at the library, I'm sure you couldn't justify living in a nice warm house with a broadband connection and a computer could you! That would be frivolous!


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I think there is alot of stuff in the pet market though which is designed to part people and their cash as the latest must haves - can see both points of view here .. my dogs find round beds with hard high sides the best so thats what they get, and one that goes in my room (but they would be just as happy with one that didn't look nice) I wouldn't spend a fortune on anything designer though. 

They have nice harnesses and collars but they don't cost the earth, I buy them raw treats from the butchers, it gives me small pleasure in the weekly grind back and forth do see them happy and occupied with stuff. 

They have coats, one shivers in the cold and refuses to go out in the rain so it is practicable - so I choose one that fits what we want andn I think looks nice.

And I do things to help I give up at least an hour a day volunteering for a pound dog rescue, thats in addition to working 8.5 hours a day and an hour commute each way... maybe I like to spoil my dogs a little when I see how other dogs have been treated... I am not daft I know some of its for me not them; 

I spend alot on different toys that I tihnk will give them something to occupy them, although have learnt that something like an old plastic bottle filled with kibble is just as good to them as expensive toys that you fill up wtih kibble

But on the other hand I am way too thrifty to be spending a fortune on alot of stuff so am quite sensible about how much I am spending

I think there is no clear cut answer.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Georgee said:


> It has been interesting to read the latest posts. I Personally find the commercialisation and spoiling of dogs rather sad. As someone who cares deeply about society I find it disturbing that so much money each year is spend on frivolous items for pets. Yes give dogs attention, affection , exercise , health care and food, but no need for memory foam beds, designer dog food and fancy collars etc The pet companies are multiple million pound businesses and the phrase " seen you coming" springs to mind.
> Birthday cards/cakes are about treating a dog like a human, if a dog has no conception of the meaning why not give the money spent on this to an animal rescue or other charity. Surely this would give a more feel good factor to the owner?
> The irony is that today we are more than ever detached from what real animals are. Less than 2 percent of workers work in agriculture, kids think chicken nuggets have nought to with a living creature. This detachment has allowed us to increasingly humanise our pets.
> As long as there are still homeless people on the streets and kids living in poverty I could not justify spending lots of money on items a dog does not need. It just doesn't seem right. In the same way i could not spent hundreds of pounds on shoes or designer clothes. I would rather help those in need. Surely as a society we need to prioritse human welfare? Yes dogs are a lifeline to many I agree but you do not need to indulge them to be a great owner.


Well i can assure you im not detached from animals in any shape or form!...& nor are my children, ive brought them up to know where meat comes from and the cruelties involved in producing it, they know about wildlife and the pressures our species are placing on it....wrecking habitats,over hunting etc, pushing ever more species to the brink! and i for one do donate to charities (all animal related) and yet still manage to buy my dogs decent food (i dont even consider this a luxury, i merely want them to be healthy so wont feed them cheap junk)...what is designer dog food anyway?....we've spent a fortune on a rig,bikes,scooter, harnesses,lines etc,etc i dont feel guilty for doing so, we earned that money the dogs are our pets and our hobby and we want to give them a great life.

If people want to spend money on their pets...so what?? theres so many dogs out there neglected and unloved its their owners who should be berated imo....


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Georgee said:


> It has been interesting to read the latest posts. I Personally find the commercialisation and spoiling of dogs rather sad. As someone who cares deeply about society I find it disturbing that so much money each year is spend on frivolous items for pets. Yes give dogs attention, affection , exercise , health care and food, but no need for memory foam beds, designer dog food and fancy collars etc The pet companies are multiple million pound businesses and the phrase " seen you coming" springs to mind.
> Birthday cards/cakes are about treating a dog like a human, if a dog has no conception of the meaning why not give the money spent on this to an animal rescue or other charity. Surely this would give a more feel good factor to the owner?
> The irony is that today we are more than ever detached from what real animals are. Less than 2 percent of workers work in agriculture, kids think chicken nuggets have nought to with a living creature. This detachment has allowed us to increasingly humanise our pets.
> As long as there are still homeless people on the streets and kids living in poverty I could not justify spending lots of money on items a dog does not need. It just doesn't seem right. In the same way i could not spent hundreds of pounds on shoes or designer clothes. I would rather help those in need. Surely as a society we need to prioritse human welfare? Yes dogs are a lifeline to many I agree but you do not need to indulge them to be a great owner.


I pay my taxes and donate to childrens charities. What's left I spend how I please. Everyone knows there's no chicken in chicken nuggets. Don't you watch Panorama ?


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

bearcub said:


> Look, we can't all be a pious martyr like you, some of us like to enjoy our lives
> 
> Kids living in poverty, homelessness has nowt to do with the fact that my OH works damn hard (60+ hours a week) for the pittance he gets paid. It is our choice how we spend it. If we want to purchase frivolous items for our dogs then we bl**dy well will and do not need to justify it, trust me, by not having kids we have saved the tax payer a hell of a lot of money already .
> 
> ...


You sound angry and resorting to name calling is not very mature because you disagree. Calling me a martyr etc I try to live by good values that is all
I never asked you to justify your spending, I suggested that frivolous spending on dogs is quite offensive when there is so much poverty and neglect around us. By sounds of it you probably think these people are not like you and deserve what they get, let me tell you it could happen to you. Ten pound on a dog collar frivolous ? No I was talking about spending on designer dog items etc thousands of pounds spent on things a dog does not need. The ongoing humanisation of animals has led to people forgetting that dogs have simple basic needs. The commercialisation of pet ownership has led people to believe dogs need these things. I did not say I thought access to a pc was frivolous , I believe humans have different and more complex needs than dogs.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

So from the replies nobody believes that the commercialisation of pets is a bad thing? carry on wasting your money and making the fat cats Richard, they do not give a jot about animal welfare just like the fact that people are easily parted with their cash when it comes to their pets


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

To quote my hydrotherapist: I would have to be dead before I parted with one of my dogs!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Blitz said:


> Sadly a lot of parents do 'get rid' of problem teenagers. That is how a lot end up in care or on the streets, the parents cant cope any more or do not want to cope. I personally know one person who chucked her kids out on their 16th birthday and another who chucked out her 17 year old daughter because she was a problem. Both educated parents, not druggies or lowlife in any way.


I also know a couple who told all their kids on their eighteenth birthdays that they would have to move out now, they wanted time to themselves. You have a child it is for life; you have a dog it is for life.


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## Balto-x (Nov 7, 2010)

LexiLou2 said:


> For fear of going over old ground....my dogs eat a brilliant diet, my OH says better than us, when it is cold and wet and windy outside on a morning we drag ourselves out of bed and take them for a walk, when you have had a long crap day at work and come home with a banging headache like I did today you have to brace yourself against a gale force wind and go throw a ball for half an hour to tire 'redbull' terrier out before his hour socialisation walk also carried out in the gale force winds, you then get home and have to prepare chicken breast liver and veg for both dogs then do 20 mins training with them each before finally be able to sit down for 5 minutes whilst trying to squeeze in some food for us....I'm sorry but if my mum or brother rung me up in gale force winds with the rain lashing down and asked me to tramp round a field for an hour I would tell them to shove off......but I do it for the dogs. I'm normally quiet squeamish but chicken carcuss, dead rabbits, liver, kidneys I hold em all I chop em all and I strangely take great pleasure in watching both my dogs tuck into their tea. I have one bed in this house, the dogs have three (each, so six in total) they have fancy collars and nice leads and loads of toys....are my dogs spoilt, most certainly, are they babied, to a degree, Lexi loves to have a cuddle like you are cradling a baby she snuggles right into you, but my dogs are well trained poilte mannered dogs, neither are possesive, I can and many other people can take items including bone off both dogs as well as them been willing to share with each other.
> I buy my dogs birthday presents and christmas presents....I don't for one minute think they have the foggiest clue what is going on but I love the look on their face when they rip their presents open and see what is inside.
> Just because we spoil our dogs does NOT mean they are humanised.


Lexi Lou I love this!!
Sums up mine and my OH's lives with our two!
we buy them toys, collars,leads etc because we want to and earn our money to spend it how we like.
My dogs are not humans i no this so does my OH, they are pets but thats doesnt mean you can not love them like family.

And to answer OP question nothing would make get rid of my dogs.

xx


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Georgee said:


> Yes of course I agree but in such cases that would be healthcare rather than indulgence don't you think:smile5:


So what do you class as indulgence? i buy my dogs toys when i see some i think they'd enjoy, but they only have a few out at a time so they dont become board.


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## abbiechi (Jul 2, 2011)

Honestly Phoebe just couldn't do anything, if she had any behavioural problems I'd work with them. I took her on and she's my responsibility, unforunately too many owners just give their dogs up because of problems that could easily be fixed.

My dog isn't treated _like_ a child, but I do love her as if she was my own child. Some people might think that's stupid but it doesn't mean I push her round in prams or dress her in baby-grows. She isn't spoiled, she gets treated like a dog and she always will be.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

> 'm sorry but if my mum or brother rung me up in gale force winds with the rain lashing down and asked me to tramp round a field for an hour I would tell them to shove off


LOL! So true. 

My dog could do nothing that would make me re-home her. 

If she had a problem so bad she'd need to go, it would probably be so bad she'd need to be pts and it would more than likely be a health issue, not a behaviour issue.

She does eat better than I do, I'm a vegetarian and quite lazy about my own food, but Elles is raw fed and I choose her diet carefully.

I also buy her gifts and indulge her, because I'm a crackpot and it's shopping therapy. I don't like shopping for myself, I like shopping for doggie and horsey stuff.

Elles has 6 different beds in various places in the house and what's more, I took her to the shop so she could choose them herself. I put them out on the floor in the pet shop and tell her to pick one, she'd walk alongside sniffing at them and then go and lie on one, that would be the one I bought.

Same with toys, I hold a choice out and the one she shows the most interest in is the one I buy for her.

She'd probably have even more stuff if I had more money, but I don't.

I know she doesn't care and would probably have as much fun, if not more, ripping up the empty boxes, but tbh I don't care what other people think, or if I should be more charitable. I'm enjoying myself with my dog and I shall darn well continue to do so. :dita:


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Only if they bite and attacked my children.

BUT I'd have them PTS instead of rehoming them. Tough choice yes, but the rescues are already overflowing and I'd never forgive myself if something happened to another family from my dog.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Georgee said:


> It has been interesting to read the latest posts. I Personally find the commercialisation and spoiling of dogs rather sad. As someone who cares deeply about society I find it disturbing that so much money each year is spend on frivolous items for pets. Yes give dogs attention, affection , exercise , health care and food, but no need for memory foam beds, designer dog food and fancy collars etc The pet companies are multiple million pound businesses and the phrase " seen you coming" springs to mind.
> Birthday cards/cakes are about treating a dog like a human, if a dog has no conception of the meaning why not give the money spent on this to an animal rescue or other charity. Surely this would give a more feel good factor to the owner?
> The irony is that today we are more than ever detached from what real animals are. Less than 2 percent of workers work in agriculture, kids think chicken nuggets have nought to with a living creature. This detachment has allowed us to increasingly humanise our pets.
> As long as there are still homeless people on the streets and kids living in poverty I could not justify spending lots of money on items a dog does not need. It just doesn't seem right. In the same way i could not spent hundreds of pounds on shoes or designer clothes. I would rather help those in need. Surely as a society we need to prioritse human welfare? Yes dogs are a lifeline to many I agree but you do not need to indulge them to be a great owner.


Again, many good points.

My dogs get treats and toys now and again. But I wouldn't go spending silly money on ridiculous items. I would rather spend that money on the rescue dogs at the kennels.

My dogs get what they need and more. But I think it is reasonable (although looking at my signature pic I'm not sure all my dogs sitting on the sofa is reasonable) lol

But I don't think anyone that has posted on here spends silly money on their dogs, by way of outfits or deluxe beds. But if they do then it's their choice.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Designer dog beds... Hope Aurelia doesn't come on here lol!

My dog sleeps on duvet covers which are the kids old ones, and they don't even wear collars lol naughty of me


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

I think I fall into the category of people who spend a lot of money on my dogs per month. Twice a week Lexi goes to school through the day whilst we are at work, it is for her socialisation and her training and costs a pretty penny, am I doing this to indulge my dognot I am doing it so she is a happy well rounded socialised dog, Bosley will also be going to school once we sort out his socialisation problems again something else I am spending money on, his weekly socialisation classes are not cheap, then they go training once a week, plus Lexi does flyball and hydro all done for fun, and all cost money, is any of this humanising my dog, or is this just a case of giving my dog the best possible life she can have? I have done my part for rescue and took a rescue boy on 3 months ago and he gets everything Lexi gets, after 12 months of been sat in a rescue at only 2 years old I think it is high time he got a bit of spoiling.
What is the use of us all donating our spare money to animal charities when we all have dogs sat at home, bored, fed on crap food like Bakers hyper as a result and in poor condition? I think I would much rather spend the money I do on my dogs and have happy healthy dogs that love their life. To see Bosleys little face when he got given a toy and didnt know what to do with it was heartbreaking, now if he sees a toy he like he gets it, because he has never know it before.
And I work bloody hard for my money, really hard, if I want to spend the spare money I have on a pretty collar for my dog then I will it doesnt mean they are going to savage me in my sleep, attack my other half or maul a child..and well if they did at least they would look pretty doing it!!! :wink:


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Georgee said:


> It has been interesting to read the latest posts. I Personally find the commercialisation and spoiling of dogs rather sad. As someone who cares deeply about society I find it disturbing that so much money each year is spend on frivolous items for pets. Yes give dogs attention, affection , exercise , health care and food, but no need for memory foam beds, designer dog food and fancy collars etc The pet companies are multiple million pound businesses and the phrase " seen you coming" springs to mind.
> Birthday cards/cakes are about treating a dog like a human, if a dog has no conception of the meaning why not give the money spent on this to an animal rescue or other charity. Surely this would give a more feel good factor to the owner?
> The irony is that today we are more than ever detached from what real animals are. Less than 2 percent of workers work in agriculture, kids think chicken nuggets have nought to with a living creature. This detachment has allowed us to increasingly humanise our pets.
> As long as there are still homeless people on the streets and kids living in poverty I could not justify spending lots of money on items a dog does not need. It just doesn't seem right. In the same way i could not spent hundreds of pounds on shoes or designer clothes. I would rather help those in need. Surely as a society we need to prioritse human welfare? Yes dogs are a lifeline to many I agree but you do not need to indulge them to be a great owner.


There you go again, knocking proper feeding. I honestly don't know what you mean by "designer". I, for instance, am not feeding Tommy Hilfiger chow, nor do I know of any such type of "designer" food out there. I do know that there are companies who offer high quality ingredients in sanitary conditions and those things cost a little more.

I'm feeding high quality food for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with the "spoiling" or "humanizing" of my dogs and cats (or the bird, for that matter). It's healthier. I am opposed to feeding species-inappropriate diets, which feeding too much grain is. They are my responsibility and I take it seriously. I do not want them to develop illnesses and diseases that might have been prevented by proper nutrition. I am opposed to having base ingredients like "animal by-products" in what I feed my pets. "By-products" could be any nasty things that I don't to know about and if I wouldn't eat them myself, then I don't want to feed them. Over here, those by-products are quite possibly toxic over time. They render entire animals, including euthanized pets and cows too sick for human consumption and road kill. I have heard that flea collars often go into the vat because they can't be bothered to take them off. If feeding food that has wholesome recognizable ingredients is "spoiling" or "humanizing", then is the opposite, in your mind, "normal healthy pet ownership"? If so, I'm distressed.

For the record, I am equally concerned about human nutrition and I am loudly outspoken about parents taking the easy way out and only feeding their children a steady diet of chicken nuggets and fries. In my mind improper and inadequate nutrition is tantamount to abuse. You should not have children, or pets, if you are not going to provide the best that you can for them, within your means (ooh, I've gone out there now, haven't I?). Is it spoiling children to feed them a high quality diet so they are healthier? No, it isn't. Nutrition is a basic need and I don't think it spoils anything to feed it the best that you can.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> You sound angry and resorting to name calling is not very mature because you disagree. Calling me a martyr etc I try to live by good values that is all
> I never asked you to justify your spending, I suggested that frivolous spending on dogs is quite offensive when there is so much poverty and neglect around us. By sounds of it you probably think these people are not like you and deserve what they get, let me tell you it could happen to you. Ten pound on a dog collar frivolous ? No I was talking about spending on designer dog items etc thousands of pounds spent on things a dog does not need. The ongoing humanisation of animals has led to people forgetting that dogs have simple basic needs. The commercialisation of pet ownership has led people to believe dogs need these things. I did not say I thought access to a pc was frivolous , I believe humans have different and more complex needs than dogs.


I've only got one thing to say to that comment - if I was homeless/living in poverty/my kids were living in poverty, it would be my and my government's responsibility, not the responsibility of a dog owner who likes to shop at Harrods.

You forget, no one is buying their DOG frivolous items, they are buying themselves frivolous items. (With the exception of health care and food). There is no difference between me buying an expensive dog bed (£100 and she never sleeps on it ) and my OH buying me a beautiful pair of diamond earings for Christmas. These are purchases that don't need to be justified. Would I have been happier if my OH donated the money he spent on my earings to charity?! NO! He would have been kicked out the door  These 'frivolous' purchases have made us both happy, and there's nowt wrong with being happy


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## debs78 (Jul 18, 2011)

Georgee I am not sure if you are genuine, a wind up merchant or just sat with your laptop in a horse hair shirt. 

You make some good points (some of which I have previously agreed with) but I think that, on the whole, you are making them to the wrong audience. I think coming on a dog forum which is clearly populated by people devoted to their dogs and telling them off for doing the best they can is both misguided and insulting to most of us.

Make your comments on the Daily Mail website when they come up with stories of the latest dog fashions which leaves hundreds in shelters or when there are stories of real neglect. 

It seems to me you are deliberately missing many of the points being made by other forum users and I can't work out if this is by accident or design.

I think it is time we all stopped giving Georgee any more ammunition.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

debs78 said:


> Georgee I am not sure if you are genuine, a wind up merchant or just sat with your laptop in a horse hair shirt.
> 
> You make some good points (some of which I have previously agreed with) but I think that, on the whole, you are making them to the wrong audience. I think coming on a dog forum which is clearly populated by people devoted to their dogs and telling them off for doing the best they can is both misguided and insulting to most of us.
> 
> ...


Well said


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> Again, many good points.
> 
> My dogs get treats and toys now and again. But I wouldn't go spending silly money on ridiculous items. I would rather spend that money on the rescue dogs at the kennels.
> 
> ...


+



NicoleW said:


> Designer dog beds... Hope Aurelia doesn't come on here lol!
> 
> My dog sleeps on duvet covers which are the kids old ones, and they don't even wear collars lol naughty of me




But to be fair my prices are more than reasonable for what you get, not to mention they are designed to make your pet comfortable, to help prevent their limbs/joints from suffering so much on hard floor and beds that aren't thick enough, or offer enough support ...


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> What would your dog have to do for you to make the decision to rehome him/her?


Just one more thing


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

debs78 said:


> Georgee I am not sure if you are genuine, a wind up merchant or just sat with your laptop in a horse hair shirt.
> 
> You make some good points (some of which I have previously agreed with) but I think that, on the whole, you are making them to the wrong audience. I think coming on a dog forum which is clearly populated by people devoted to their dogs and telling them off for doing the best they can is both misguided and insulting
> 
> ...


I am not any of the methinks you accuse me of and I have if you care to read my posts not told anyone off. I have raised general issues that I thought a dog forum would be interested in, but people seem to be almost fanatical about dogs on here so respond by attacking me. I know my views are not welcome here in the main. I think you would find that in the outside world there are many that would.
People have posted they would die for their dogs , see them the same as their children and treat them better than their own families. . . . rational balanced thinking yeh right.
You may not be used to people on here disagreeing with the dominant ideology but I am used to swimming against the tide, so no worries. 
As for the daily mail, there are more daily mail type views on this thread than I can stomach.
I treat my dogs well with exercise and attention so have no truck with respect for animals as animals. I have growing concern that we have lost sight of this as a society and am allowed to express that view just as you are yours.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

bearcub said:


> I've only got one thing to say to that comment - if I was homeless/living in poverty/my kids were living in poverty, it would be my and my government's responsibility, not the responsibility of a dog owner who likes to shop at Harrods.


This is such simplistic explanation of deprivation. I did not say someone buying expensive things for their dog caused poverty or homelessness. I hope you are never in such a position as you may have to give up your beloved dogs.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Georgee said:


> I am not any of the methinks you accuse me of and I have if you care to read my posts not told anyone off. I have raised general issues that I thought a dog forum would be interested in, but people seem to be almost fanatical about dogs on here so respond by attacking me. I know my views are not welcome here in the main. I think you would find that in the outside world there are many that would.
> People have posted they would die for their dogs , see them the same as their children and treat them better than their own families. . . . rational balanced thinking yeh right.
> You may not be used to people on here disagreeing with the dominant ideology but I am used to swimming against the tide, so no worries.
> As for the daily mail, there are more daily mail type views on this thread than I can stomach.
> I treat my dogs well with exercise and attention so have no truck with respect for animals as animals. I have growing concern that we have lost sight of this as a society and am allowed to express that view just as you are yours.


I have not read all your posts, Georgee, but I have to agree with your last point. I think this is the reason there are a growing number of attacks by normally friendly family dogs. Simply because people do forget that they are dogs, so they go leave their lovely, friendly dog alone with a strange child, the child pulls his ears or something and he snaps. He is a dog, that is what they do.

I think it is extremely dangerous to forget for a moment that they are not humans in furry overcoats, they do not think or react like humans and they never will. It is very easy with newfies to forget that they are dogs, as they are so gentle and loving and they do indeed, love kids, even though they have not been brought up with any. However, if I need a reminder, I only have to go under Joshua's tail, which action he is terrified of, and I will soon remember that he is a dog and will bite me.

I think the problems you have encountered is in stating that humans are more important than dogs and with that I do not agree. It was humans that decided they were more important, not animals. Faced with the choice of saving a dog or a human, I would go for the dog.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

LexiLou2 said:


> To see Bosleys little face when he got given a toy and didn't know what to do with it was heartbreaking, now if he sees a toy he like he gets it, because he has never know it before.
> 
> And I work bloody hard for my money, really hard, if I want to spend the spare money I have on a pretty collar for my dog then I will it doesn't mean they are going to savage me in my sleep, attack my other half or maul a child…..and well if they did at least they would look pretty doing it!!! :wink:


Dogs do not need new toys, what do you think happened before the pet industry started burgeoning ? Do you think all dogs in the past were unhappy with a stick or a bone 
This last comment joking about a child being mauled is just appalling,have some sensitivity to people who may have experiences reading this


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> This is such simplistic explanation of deprivation. I did not say someone buying expensive things for their dog caused poverty or homelessness.


Look. I'm not on this forum to discuss deprivation. I will not be discussing the morals of deprivation or anything to do with our social responsibility with you on a pet forum. I am happy to discuss anything about my dogs on this forum though, including their poo 



Georgee said:


> I hope you are never in such a position as you may have to give up your beloved dogs.


This comment is completely uncalled for on a forum dedicated to those who love their pets.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

If you did not want to discuss deprivation then why did you respond with a comment about what you would do if poor or homeless?? 
It's a reality of life that people have to give up their pets if homeless or in extreme poverty, so no idea why that comment is so hard for you to accept? people in dire straits do not often have the luxury of choice.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Dogs do not need new toys, what do you think happened before the pet industry started burgeoning ? *Do you think all dogs in the past were unhappy with a stick or a bone *This last comment joking about a child being mauled is just appalling,have some sensitivity to people who may have experiences reading this


So by the same rational, kids don't need a lot of the things they get now because past children coped fine?

Sometimes my dog plays with sticks but sometimes she will go and pick up a toy from her basket to play, which to me says she needs more than a stick to occupy her mind. She has a toy basket, she shares my bed if she chooses, I make her food as its cheaper. I do this because i have taken responsibility for something else and therefore it is my job to make sure she gets everything she needs to be happy and healthy. If i need to spend my hard earned money to do so I will.

Yes there are people out there who treat their dogs like children and they shouldnt, because they aren't children, but to get so righteous with people who want to spoil their animals is just rude.

I work hard and lose a lot of my pay to tax. What i have left over i will spend on what i want, whether its my £20k wedding, my dog or a fancy pair of shoes. I dont begrudge other people what they spend their money on, even if i personally wouldn't. I give money to charity and i give money to rescues, so if i see a toy i think Piper will like she will bloody well get it.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> If you did not want to discuss deprivation then why did you respond with a comment about what you would do if poor or homeless??
> It's a reality of life that people have to give up their pets if homeless or in extreme poverty, so no idea why that comment is so hard for you to accept? people in dire straits do not often have the luxury of choice.


OMG! Stop preaching will you! What are you trying to get me to agree with, I've lost track!


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee - I have a friend who is deeply religous. She goes to church twice a week and prays every day. She has been through some very very hard times in her life but not once has she thought about abandoning her faith, she will be a devoted Christian way beyond her dying day.

To put it as simply as possible, my devotion to my dog runs as deep as my friend's faith.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

bearcub said:


> Georgee - I have a friend who is deeply religous. She goes to church twice a week and prays every day. She has been through some very very hard times in her life but not once has she thought about abandoning her faith, she will be a devoted Christian way beyond her dying day.
> 
> To put it as simply as possible, my devotion to my dog runs as deep as my friend's faith.


Going to church has nothing to do with being a Christian and spiritual beliefs costs nothing in terms of actual money. Keeping your Christian values whilst homeless must be incredibly hard when in this society very few people give a damm about you.
To compare spirituality to your relationship with your dog is rather strange? Maybe you could start a new religion ?


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Dogs do not need new toys, what do you think happened before the pet industry started burgeoning ? Do you think all dogs in the past were unhappy with a stick or a bone
> This last comment joking about a child being mauled is just appalling,have some sensitivity to people who may have experiences reading this


Tell that to the owners who have lost dogs when they have been playing with sticks and swallowed them or impailed themselves on them, it is a very well know fact dogs playing with sticks is a dangerous thing, I for one can't allow Lexi to play with sticks, she picks them up and carries them length ways, so if she trips they go straight down her throat. Also what fun are bones? They get them three times a week for tea, my dogs wouldn't play with them they would eat them, plus I'd look pretty stupid on a walk throwing a bone round the field. 
Bosley has never known toys, he has never known a home enviroment with a comfy bed, daily walks, a good diet and no he may not NEED it but he sure does like it.
And how dare you tell me to have sensitivity when you have shown all the sensitivity of a blunt knife coming on a DOG LOVERS forum and slating the way that 95% of us own our dogs. Not one person on this thread has said that their dog is like their child, I for one have the deepest sympathy for anyone that suffers a dog attack, my future husband was bitten as a child and totally agree that by HUMANISING dogs you are asking for trouble, however I don't agree that by buying your dog nice things for them to enjoy in their life, like a comfy bed and some nice toys but treating them like a dog, ensuring they are well trained and socialised that you are turning them into something that will attack. It is about responsible dog ownership not how many toys a dog has, and I think you will find that the majority of people on here are extremely responsible dog owners!!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Dogs do not need new toys, what do you think happened before the pet industry started burgeoning ? Do you think all dogs in the past were unhappy with a stick or a bone
> This last comment joking about a child being mauled is just appalling,have some sensitivity to people who may have experiences reading this


*Puts on favourite earrings and necklace set and gets on soap box* 

We don't NEED computers, mobile phones, Sky/Cable TV (or for that matter, a TV at all), Radios, jewelry, cars, and no doubt a 1,000 things I've overlooked, things we've lived without for thousands of years, but I'd like to bet my bottom dollar that even YOU have - at the very least - 2 of those.

Or do you live in the Dark Ages?

*Gets off soap box, but keeps wearing earrings and necklace*


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

George, you dont seem to have a very high opinion of dogs do you, I am wondering why you've joined a 'pet' forum?
Saying dogs should be fed last and humans first is just tosh!!! I've always found walking my dogs then feeding them gives me some peace to able to get on and cook for us.
Humanising dogs doesn't sit well with me either, just because I buy them a few toys doesn't mean I'm babying them. It means they learn to leave my stuff alone and good food is common sense- less vet bills. We have a mutual respect thing going on here- I'm 'in charge' though, if I wasn't I'd be walking 30 miles a day and leaving the fridge door open so they could help selves!!!
They're all more loyal than any person I know


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

kat&molly said:


> George, you dont seem to have a very high opinion of dogs do you, I am wondering why you've joined a 'pet' forum?
> Saying dogs should be fed last and humans first is just tosh!!! I've always found walking my dogs then feeding them gives me some peace to able to get on and cook for us.
> Humanising dogs doesn't sit well with me either, just because I buy them a few toys doesn't mean I'm babying them. It means they learn to leave my stuff alone and good food is common sense- less vet bills. We have a mutual respect thing going on here- I'm 'in charge' though, if I wasn't I'd be walking 30 miles a day and leaving the fridge door open so they could help selves!!!
> They're all more loyal than any person I know


I missed that bit, so will quote you instead! Why should humans be fed first, unless it is some outdated pack leader theory. You don't sit and eat, knowing the dog is hungry, that would be barbaric. My dogs have their dinner the same time as us, then they have a few bits of leftovers when I have finished.

As you say, I don't know why he joined a pet forum. Perhaps you would be better, Georgee, finding a humanist forum, where everyone agrees that humans are the most important thing in the entire universe.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

I agree with Georgee.

I think far too many people now consider dogs as small humans which is why sometimes you come across so many bad-mannered dogs because they could possibly be pampered to.

My dogs rarely gets toys, they have one hard rubber ball to play fetch and every few days they get an empty coke bottle to play with. They are not allowed on the sofa, or on any beds. I even am uncomfortable with having them upstairs (this is how I grew up), but I let them. 

I think he/she has some good points, though not put across with the right words.

£25 for a posh collar, could be £25 to buy food for shelters which are having to put dogs down as tthere isn't enough funds or spaces.

However, with regards to the homeless and giving up your dogs if you become homeless.. Here's a picture


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

But I dont see how a few toys is 'humanising' them - they're dogs they like to play. If I bought rattles and baby gyms- that would be
I wouldn't spend 25 quid on a collar, but I always do my bit for rescue and dont think its fair to make people feel guilty about buying a toy/bed etc..
I wouldn't even say my dogs are spoiled, they're fed, walked cared for and loved thats basic .


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> What would your dog have to do for you to make the decision to rehome him/her?


Goodvic asked the above......

Oh for petes sake.....


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

I don't think he/she is intentionally trying to make people feel guilty.

Speaking of baby gyms...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I think I paid about £28 each for my dogs' collars, because that was all I could get to fit them. I have recently paid about £16 for Joshua's magnetic collar in the hope that it would help his arthritis. I don't buy them toys, but it has nothing to do with if they need them - they eat them in about five seconds, so I don't buy them. They are just as happy with an old shoe.

I don't think any of this has to do with what would make you give up your dog, which is what the thread is supposed to be about.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

LinznMilly said:


> *Puts on favourite earrings and necklace set and gets on soap box*
> 
> We don't NEED computers, mobile phones, Sky/Cable TV (or for that matter, a TV at all), Radios, jewelry, cars, and no doubt a 1,000 things I've overlooked, things we've lived without for thousands of years, but I'd like to bet my bottom dollar that even YOU have - at the very least - 2 of those.
> 
> ...


What has this to do with what a dog needs, I think human and dogs needs vary greatly , talk about misinterpreting someone. Think humans suffer from over materialisation don't you?


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

kat&molly said:


> But I dont see how a few toys is 'humanising' them - they're dogs they like to play. If I bought rattles and baby gyms- that would be
> I wouldn't spend 25 quid on a collar, but I always do my bit for rescue and dont think its fair to make people feel guilty about buying a toy/bed etc..
> I wouldn't even say my dogs are spoiled, they're fed, walked cared for and loved thats basic .


We agree! I do the same as you feed walk care for and love, you cab do all that without the aisles of pets at home. I said dogs do not need lot of new toys


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

kat&molly said:


> But I dont see how a few toys is 'humanising' them - they're dogs they like to play. If I bought rattles and baby gyms- that would be
> I wouldn't spend 25 quid on a collar, but I always do my bit for rescue and dont think its fair to make people feel guilty about buying a toy/bed etc..
> I wouldn't even say my dogs are spoiled, they're fed, walked cared for and loved thats basic .


I totally agree and I have no ability "make" anyone feel guilty, I made my points its an Internet forum , a debate.it seems debate on here means agree with the majority


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

NicoleW said:


> I agree with Georgee.
> 
> I think far too many people now consider dogs as small humans which is why sometimes you come across so many bad-mannered dogs because they could possibly be pampered to.My dogs rarely gets toys, they have one hard rubber ball to play fetch and every few days they get an empty coke bottle to play with. They are not allowed on the sofa, or on any beds. I even am uncomfortable with having them upstairs (this is how I grew up), but I let them.
> I think he/she has some good points, though not put across with the right words.£25 for a posh collar, could be £25 to buy food for shelters which are having to put dogs down as tthere isn't enough funds


sad sad photo probably only friend this guy has. A Lot of street homeless keep dogs for protection, company and warmth.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Going to church has nothing to do with being a Christian and spiritual beliefs costs nothing in terms of actual money. Keeping your Christian values whilst homeless must be incredibly hard when in this society very few people give a damm about you.
> To compare spirituality to your relationship with your dog is rather strange? Maybe you could start a new religion ?


I was using a (very) simple analogy, and not comparing my relationship with my dog to spirituality. I was simply stating that my dedication to my dog runs as deep as my friends dedication to her faith. Much the same as a mother's dedication to her child.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Your constant references to society, homelessness and money is irrelevant not only to this thread but to the forum as well.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Georgee said:


> sad sad photo probably only friend this guy has. A Lot of street homeless keep dogs for protection, company and warmth.


And they all seem to look after them much better than some of the wealthier types who dump them in a shelter at the first sign of them behaving like a dog.

There seem to be a lot of homeless hostels in Cambridge and I see many of them, nearly always with a little dog trotting along behind, obviously absolutely devoted to their owners.

A little staffie belonging to a hostel dweller came and said hello to me on Saturday when I was dropping someone off, no lead in sight, and went back as soon as he was called.

I think they are lucky to have their dogs and the dogs are very lucky to have them. Unfortunately not everyone who gets a dog cares for it half as well.


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

> They render entire animals, including euthanized pets and cows too sick for human consumption and road kill. I have heard that flea collars often go into the vat because they can't be bothered to take them off.


At least into the 1970s euthanized pets *were* processed back into pet food was common practice in the USA (elsewhere I don't know) where traces of sodium pentobarbital were found in pet food.

I hear that as late as 2001 Sanimal Inc.(Canada) was still doing this, seems they now trade as Sanimax and still supply the makers of tinned jelly and kibble feeders of the world.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

bearcub said:


> I was using a (very) simple analogy, and not comparing my relationship with my dog to spirituality. I was simply stating that my dedication to my dog runs as deep as my friends dedication to her faith. Much the same as a mother's dedication to her child.
> 
> I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Your constant references to society, homelessness and money is irrelevant not only to this thread but to the forum as well.


Yes totally disagree that a relationship with a dog can be same as a mothers love for her child.
Are you some kind of "controller" on this forum, I did not realise you controlled what was relevant themes? Apologies if I have stepped on your toes.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> And they all seem to look after them much better than some of the wealthier types who dump them in a shelter at the first sign of them behaving like a dog.
> 
> There seem to be a lot of homeless hostels in Cambridge and I see many of them, nearly always with a little dog trotting along behind, obviously absolutely devoted to their owners.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more :smile5:


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Dunno really, developing a cocaine habit wouldn't sit too well.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

springerpete said:


> Dunno really, developing a cocaine habit wouldn't sit too well.


OOOhhhh you can't say that.....drug habits are humanising your dogs and thats not allowed!!!!


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Come on guys, lighten up a bit. I'm sure that this thread wasn't meant to be taken that seriously or am I missing something.??


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Yes totally disagree that a relationship with a dog can be same as a mothers love for her child.
> Are you some kind of "controller" on this forum, I did not realise you controlled what was relevant themes? Apologies if I have stepped on your toes.


I haven't used the word relationship, I've used to word dedication. It's a different thing, I feel.

And no, I'm not a 'controller' on the forum, a strange thing to imply. I am simply stating that turning every post that you disagree with into 'the bigger picture' *is* irrelevant on this forum.

If someone starts a thread asking for help and advice about their dogs runny poo or cat's sore paw, or which collar would be best, it is highly *irrelevant* to take the attitude of 'but there are homeless people, why does it matter in the grand scheme of things'. So I don't understand why you are repeatedly mentioning it on this thread.

I think under the circumstances, this being a pet forum for pet lovers, we will never agree so let's stop trying eh? Maybe if we debated something about society, homelessness, religion we might find ourselves agreeing with each other but on our what each of our dogs mean to us, we will never understand each other.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Is this thread really still going? What was the original question again? It seems to have disappeared into oblivion.... must have got dizzy with all the circles it's going round and round in.

Me thinks it maybe time to agree to disagree... some of us can go and give our pampered pooches a shampoo and set, polish their toe nails and tuck them up in their designer beds... and some of us can make them submit to our superior human selves while we go about saving the world.

But in all seriousness I don't think anyone on here actually falls into either of the above categories and perhaps things have been taken out of context and blown out of proportion 

(in my opinion anyway) *shuts up and disappears back into corner I was hiding in*


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

foxyrockmeister said:


> Is this thread really still going? What was the original question again? It seems to have disappeared into oblivion.... must have got dizzy with all the circles it's going round and round in.
> 
> Me thinks it maybe time to agree to disagree... some of us can go and give our pampered pooches a shampoo and set, polish their toe nails and tuck them up in their designer beds... and some of us can make them submit to our superior human selves while we go about saving the world.
> 
> ...


Speak for yourself Lexi is currently deciding what colour her nails should be for the coming week.....hmmmmm pink or purple....all these decisions for a poor little staffie to make :smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin: (just to clarify....I am joking!!!)


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

bearcub said:


> I haven't used the word relationship, I've used to word dedication. It's a different thing, I feel.
> 
> And no, I'm not a 'controller' on the forum, a strange thing to imply. I am simply stating that turning every post that you disagree with into 'the bigger picture' *is* irrelevant on this forum.
> 
> I think under the circumstances, this being a pet forum for pet lovers, we will never agree so let's stop trying eh? Maybe if we debated something about society, homelessness, religion we might find ourselves agreeing with each other but on our what each of our dogs mean to us, we will never understand each other.


Again you are tellin me what is and what is not relevant on a public forum. I have raised issues that I believe are relevant and that's my choice. Just as it is your choice to post what you have.
Giving a different perspective on dog ownership and relating it to wider issues is part of a debate. People do not have to agree with each other. I have been called all sorts on here , yet I am the one told the wording and content of my posts are wrong.


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

Oh and for anyone on doubt about the increasing humanisation and commercialisation of dogs check out the website elmos wardrobe especially the dog designer clothing section, which has " party pants " for dogs hmy:Sick


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Again you are tellin me what is and what is not relevant on a public forum. I have raised issues that I believe are relevant and that's my choice. Just as it is your choice to post what you have.
> Giving a different perspective on dog ownership and relating it to wider issues is part of a debate. People do not have to agree with each other. I have been called all sorts on here , yet I am the one told the wording and content of my posts are wrong.


I think the point is this thread asked a very specific question....what would your dog have to do for you to rehome it....in not one of your replies have you even touched on that subject. Maybe you would be better starting a new thread, Is the humanisation of dogs causing aggression issues? or something like that. The idea is generally to try and keep threads on topic and this one seems to have gone off on a total tangent.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Again you are tellin me what is and what is not relevant on a public forum. I have raised issues that I believe are relevant and that's my choice. Just as it is your choice to post what you have.
> Giving a different perspective on dog ownership and relating it to wider issues is part of a debate. People do not have to agree with each other. I have been called all sorts on here , yet I am the one told the wording and content of my posts are wrong.


I apologise for using any childish name calling. I am in the wrong for doing this and didn't mean to offend you.

Just a bit of helpful advice though, this forum is not necessarily a debating forum. I think your posts may have gone down better if you had told us of your opinion but unfortunately for you, most people interpreted your posts as accusatory, which is bound to happen on a forum used primarily by those who are dedicated to their pets


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Georgee said:


> Again you are tellin me what is and what is not relevant on a public forum. I have raised issues that I believe are relevant and that's my choice. Just as it is your choice to post what you have.
> Giving a different perspective on dog ownership and relating it to wider issues is part of a debate. People do not have to agree with each other. I have been called all sorts on here , yet I am the one told the wording and content of my posts are wrong.


Whilst I agree that it is a public forum and a debate, you have taken this thread way off topic. If you go onto a dog forum and tell everyone that the care of their dogs, no matter how people wish to go about it, is not important when there are homeless people, you can expect to get people riled up.

I think, personally, that it is quite disgusting that in this advanced country there are people living on the streets whilst our government donates millions to foreign countries.

Charity begins at home, be it with people or animals.

And no, I don't think poorer, third world countries are as important as my dogs. Sorry, but that is how I feel, especially when little of the money given to large charities actually gets to where it belongs.


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## feathered bird lover (May 23, 2011)

hi, just saw this.
only way that would happen to max is, if we were to ill to look after him/or dead.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Georgee said:


> Oh and for anyone on doubt about the increasing humanisation and commercialisation of dogs check out the website elmos wardrobe especially the dog designer clothing section, which has " party pants " for dogs hmy:Sick


I agree and I also think that dressing dogs up is unkind to them. They are dogs, not dolls. But that has nothing whatever to do with this thread, nor with your own remarks and comments, so why bring it up at all?


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Oh and for anyone on doubt about the increasing humanisation and commercialisation of dogs check out the website elmos wardrobe especially the dog designer clothing section, which has " party pants " for dogs hmy:Sick


I agree however not one person on here has said they dress their dogs up in clothes or anything of the like....I agree that dogs are humanised and i think this is wrong my dogs are just that my dogs, I love them immensley but they are not baby replacements they are my dogs.....but I am still going to buy them toys the same way i will buy my child toys when I have one, as I do think they get something out of it....both of mine have kongs, they help keep them thinking, they also have treat balls again keep them thinking, the dogs get something out of the toys and I enjoy seeing them having fun.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

feathered bird lover said:


> hi, just saw this.
> only way that would happen to max is, if we were to ill to look after him/or dead.


Well done. We have been trying to get this thread back to the topic; perhaps your post will do the trick.


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## beary_clairey (Jan 23, 2011)

Georgee - I think you need to stop wasting your time with us and go and run a soup kitchen or hand out blankets to the poor and homeless.

I think you would feel better for it!!!!


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## Georgee (Sep 10, 2011)

beary_clairey said:


> Georgee - I think you need to stop wasting your time with us and go and run a soup kitchen or hand out blankets to the poor and homeless.
> 
> I think you would feel better for it!!!!


Thanks so much for yet another insightful response
Sad sad sad


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## beary_clairey (Jan 23, 2011)

Georgee said:


> Thanks so much for yet another insightful response
> Sad sad sad


You're very welcome!


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Manoy Moneelil said:


> At least into the 1970s euthanized pets *were* processed back into pet food was common practice in the USA (elsewhere I don't know) where traces of sodium pentobarbital were found in pet food.
> 
> I hear that as late as 2001 Sanimal Inc.(Canada) was still doing this, seems they now trade as Sanimax and still supply the makers of tinned jelly and kibble feeders of the world.


WTF !!!

Never heard of this before....


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Dear oh dear I feel for your daughter if she has the same ranking in your life as your dog. Words fail me


Ha ha..... why you mad?? you don't know me or my Daughter, or my dogs....only just read this, and am chuckling.....my dogs are like my children...in as much when i take them on, i do it for life. Of course i love my daughter more....she is a beautiful young 21 year old.

I love my dogs too....they are my babies, and YES are spoilt and very happy.....noones business..i am the one who cares and pays for them.

So thrrubbbPP


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> I think you're reading it wrong.
> 
> The dog has the same high ranking, and special place in the family, as the child has.


Well said Nonnie......and who can say different.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Georgee said:


> Dogs should always know there place in any family. That place is beneath children and adults in the house. For example they should be reminded of this by being fed after the people in the house.
> To say your dog shares the same place in your heart as your children is in my humble opinion insulting to your offspring. Dogs are animals,they are not the product of you and your partner.


I sooooo wish i didn't read back.....LOL.

I have foster kids....they are not from myself or my husband....should i place them lower in 'ranking' (btw, my house is a home - not an army...so we have no ranks)
Dogs are animals...so are we, in case you are forgetting.
We made them to be our companions....they are what they are because of humans...and quite rightly so they deserve their place in our homes.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Georgee said:


> There in lies the issue then . It's about human needs to replace relationships with people with dogs. It's way easier to get on with a dog, they do not talk back, cannot argue with you and you can control them. Way easier than having adult to adult relationships. Dogs needs are simple, humans are complex.


Hey matey

Course we control them....we do with kids too, and with our fellow adults

What is wrong with that, in some cases??

Humans needs are not complex....not mine anyhow....maybe yours might be.


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

Mia seems to do something at least twice a day to warrant me telling her I am going to be looking for the receipt so I can send her back..............we haven't told her that the rescue she came from is no longer in operation so we can't......she would be even naughtier if she knew we were stuck with her for life now.


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

i would never rehome fudge under any circumstances,if he developed a behaviour problem that couldn`t be sorted and i couldn`t control and medical tests ruled anything out,i would have him PTS.As that is what would happen to him in most rescues.


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