# Tabby Mated with Tortie Female



## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Would this litter consist of tabby males and tortie females ?

I am trying to read about patterns today but am not getting far with this one.


Thanks


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

I think it depends on the colouring regarding the tortie. Isn't tortie & tabby separate as there's a possible tortie tabby?


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

mellowma said:


> Would this litter consist of tabby males and tortie females ?
> 
> I am trying to read about patterns today but am not getting far with this one.
> 
> Thanks


hahaha i tried to work out coat patterns and colours etc, but got lost ,lol,its very interesting thou,...


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

messyhearts said:


> I think it depends on the colouring regarding the tortie. Isn't tortie & tabby separate as there's a possible tortie tabby?


Yes, you can get tabbies/torties. They are very lovely. I think I need a cat woman to help wth this one. (Sakiou or Spid or Merlins Mum)! 



colliemerles said:


> hahaha i tried to work out coat patterns and colours etc, but got lost ,lol,its very interesting thou,...


I have fantastic book upstairs which goes *deeply* into it all. Shame I cannot understand a word of it.   I *do* try. (honest)


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I would love a tabbie/tortie, they are very cute. I wish I could understand it all. If they would stop talking about black though..... I would like to know about blues please if anyone can help. Blue tabby males and blue tortie females. 

I google it but keep finding my own posts!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

what colour tabby and what colour tortie? mitted or bi?


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh I think I found it I would get Cream/Cream Tabby Blue/Blue Tabby/Blue/Blue Tabby Bluecream/Blue torbie.

I think.

Gosh what a lot of colours.

*Yes I am typing to myself btw....very bored*


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

basically it depends on the father for the tabby - if he carries 2 tabby genes then all the kittens will be tabby, only one tabby gene and 50% tabby. if mum is tortie then some of the girls will be tortie and some will be non-tortie. A red girl put to any non red dad will always produce tortie girls as will a non tortie girl put to a red dad.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

are you talking about a blue tortie with a blue tabby?

if they don't carry for chocolate then

boys - blue and cream (with or without tabby)
girls - blue and blue tortie (with or without tabby)

if they carry for chocolate

boys - blue, lilac, cream (with or without tabby)
girls - blue, lilac, blue tortie, lilac tortie (with or without tabby)

is that a help?


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## RachyBobs (Oct 18, 2009)

I believe my cat is a result of tabby x tortie, she is a strange colour, well not strange but its defiantly different!!


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

spid said:


> basically it depends on the father for the tabby - if he carries 2 tabby genes then all the kittens will be tabby, only one tabby gene and 50% tabby. if mum is tortie then some of the girls will be tortie and some will be non-tortie. A red girl put to any non red dad will always produce tortie girls as will a non tortie girl put to a red dad.


Dad has one gene.



spid said:


> are you talking about a blue tortie with a blue tabby?
> 
> if they don't carry for chocolate then
> 
> ...


Yes that's a BIG help. So the boys - blue and cream (with or without tabby - would they be colourpoint?)



RachyBobs said:


> I believe my cat is a result of tabby x tortie, she is a strange colour, well not strange but its defiantly different!!


Lovely cat.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

mellowma said:


> So the boys - blue and cream (with or without tabby - would they be colourpoint?)


If we are talking colourpoint parents then yes. Colour point is recessive (hence the fact it is very rarely seen in moggies). So if we are talking raggies then yes, as both mum and dad will have two colourpoint genes (you need two to be a colourpoint) and so the kittens have no choice but to be a colourpoint.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

One mitted (tabby) one colourpoint (tortie blue)


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

RachyBobs said:


> I believe my cat is a result of tabby x tortie, she is a strange colour, well not strange but its defiantly different!!


I don't think she is a tortie tabby - she is more brown than red - so a brown tabby - she is a stunner though, she is a marble tabby which is the rarest pattern of tabby. You have to remember that tabby is a pattern not a colour.

This is a tortie tabby, the red is much more obvious than your cat I think.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Even though Dad has only one agouti gene and it therefore capable of throwing a non tabby kitten, any red and cream boys from the litter have to be registered as tabbies (GCCF) unless proven to be otherwise by breeding or DNA tests.


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## magisragis (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi Mellowma

You can get cream or blue point males and blue tortie or blue point females. Any of the kittens can also be tabby if dad is a visual tabby.

If you are struggling with the colours and patterns on Ragdolls then TBRCC website does have a pattern/colour prediction chart which is a bit easier to use than Robinsons book. 

Forget lilac and chocolate unless you know that your cats have been DNA tested for the chocolate gene. 

As saikou has recommended on the cream and tortie kittens a DNA test will tell you if the cat has the agouti gene. It can be very hard to tell. 

Margaret


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Yes that is quite confusing. Cream would be nice. Reds would be confusing!!

That's good to know though, thank you all again.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

I had a cat called Maggie she was a short haired tortie/tabby. I will try and find a picture.


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## magisragis (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi Mellowma

Regarding the patterns colourpoint x mitted produces colourpointed and/or mitted kittens. Sometimes you will get a mixture, sometimes all colourpointed and sometimes all mitted. You will not get bi-colour or any extreme patterns. For novice breeders in Ragdolls it is important to use a colourpoint in a mating. It helps keep control of the patterns.

Due to breeders not controlling the bi-colour and mitted gene in Europe and USA they have actually lost the ability to produce what is called a true bi-colour. They are mainly all high mitteds. Something we must never do in the UK. So, if you perform a mating where you can get a mixture of extreme patterns remember that genotype and phenotype are two different things. Sometimes to establish the true pattern of a Ragdoll it will need to be mated back to a colourpoint and fingers crossed you will be able to tell.

It is easier to remember that tabby, colourpoint,mitted, high mitted, bi-colour, mid high white and high white are all patterns in the Ragdoll. They do not influence colour.

To produce tabby at least one parent must be visually tabby.

Blue is dilute and so is cream. Seal and red are dominant. Blue and cream cannot carry red or seal. Red and seal can carry dilute (blue or cream).

So you have put dilute to dilute so all you can get is dilute. 

Try not to get confused with the chocolate gene in Ragdolls. At this moment in time it is not an issue unless you are using Ragdolls that have come from an outcross programme to introduce the chocolate gene. As a breeder you would know if you are taking part in the outcross programme so put chocolate/lilac farthest from your mind. 

It can be mind blowing at first but sometimes the easiest way to learn is sit down and read the pattern and colour charts. Get used to looking things up and then it is clearer. Compare to your own cats pedigrees - you may find some errors in them! some of us have a good chuckle at pawpeds. Of course, in time, there will be a Ragdoll breeding policy which will cover these genetics. 

Margaret


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

We you say my cat is a tabby tortie?


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I would yes, clear patches of red - she is a tortie tabby and white.

Having the white as well makes it easier to see the tortie patches as they appear as blocks of colour. A tortie without white is more mingled and its easily hidden in a tabby pattern.


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## magisragis (Feb 10, 2010)

I, too, would say tortie tabby or some people call them torbies.

Lovely rich colours on her.

Margaret


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

Thank you, yes she has lovely red patches especially around the edges where her dark fur meets the white under her belly.


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## Mochali (Sep 29, 2008)

Torties and tortie tabby girls


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