# Is my cat Pregnant?



## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

About a month ago I noticed my cat had gone into heat.
She was very affectionate, and making the strange calls they do and actually sprayed me... which was kind of disgusting haha but I didn't think much would happen. All the cats around my house were desexed. But then I saw a black cat she was around and they became very noisy.

Nevertheless, I was rubbing her tummy yesterday and noticed her nipples were larger.

Could she be pregnant?

Here are some photos I took just then.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j144/skupp/Photo0155.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j144/skupp/Photo0151.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j144/skupp/Photo0157.jpg

Thanks!


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2009)

Certainly looks like it to me! Lovely pinked up nippes - its a sure give away!

Did she go outside while she was in heat?

How old is she hun?

If it was about 4 weeks ago she was in call - expect kittens in around 5 weeks!


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah she was lurking around outside with the male cat hehe and she's about 18 months now  Thank you!


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2009)

then yes - if she has been outside while in call you are DEFINATLY expecting kittens!

Next time either dont let her out lol or have her speyed


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Yes she's pregnant - beautiful cat, is she a ragdoll?

Liz


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

Luckily I have people already wanting to buy them if she has them 

And yes she's a ragdoll  Her name is Muffy (Muffin)


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Do you let your Ragdoll out then ? 

How old is she ? She is very pretty.


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## sjreilly72 (Jan 8, 2009)

She is a sweetie, can't wait to see her babies, she defo looks pregnant to me as well. Keep us updated when you can.


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

mellowma said:


> Do you let your Ragdoll out then ?
> 
> How old is she ? She is very pretty.


Yeah we do, We live on a cul de sac (dead end) street so it's very safe 

And shes about 18 months old now.

And i will defiantly keep everyone posted


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## Janak (Sep 5, 2009)

I agree, definatley pregnant! I would highly reccomend getting her spayed too, it will decrease her risks of pyometras hugely, and she won't be getting pregnant by dirty toms, haha!


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

She is gorgeous!

Did you want her to have a litter then? 
x


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes, I did  She's a beautiful cat that will have beautiful kittens.
I just wish It would have been with a purebred as well but I still have people wanting her kittens anyway  So all is good.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

I am appalled that you plan to "sell" these kittens. Sell them..... as what? Why isn't this cat spayed at 18 months old?

good grief.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

If she was with a black tomcat, expect a whole litter of black kittens. Sadly the chances of getting any like her are firmly in the minority. The gene for her colouring is recessive, and very few moggies carry it.

If you noticed when her nipples first became pink, the kittens can be expected 6 weeks from that date. The kittens will be felt moving around about 3 weeks before birth.

I hope she has a safe delivery... at 18 mths she has either been calling regularly for some time (6 months or more) hence her frustration and spraying.... or she is unusually late in starting to call, which might indicate a hormonal issue.


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

We indented for her to breed with another purebred Ragdoll.

And I am not selling them for profit whatsoever, the price is only to cover their Vaccination,Microchiping and Spaying.

Sorry if this still "appalls" you. And yes, I still let my ragdoll out even though she isn't spayed, I believe she has a right to freedom too.



MerlinsMum said:


> If she was with a black tomcat, expect a whole litter of black kittens. Sadly the chances of getting any like her are firmly in the minority. The gene for her colouring is recessive, and very few moggies carry it.
> 
> If you noticed when her nipples first became pink, the kittens can be expected 6 weeks from that date. The kittens will be felt moving around about 3 weeks before birth.
> 
> I hope she has a safe delivery... at 18 mths she has either been calling regularly for some time (6 months or more) hence her frustration and spraying.... or she is unusually late in starting to call, which might indicate a hormonal issue.


I believe this was her first time on heat, I've been observing her before this but she's never shown the signs, I thought she was just slow because she was the runt of the litter.
Do you think any of the litter will carry the blue eyes?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

So...why do you feel the need to breed her at all?


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

I enjoy breeding kittens and giving them homes.
I also believe that each cat has the right to experience giving birth at least once.
Who am I to say she can't have kittens?
That's like me not allowing you to have children? It's Absurd.
And yes, before you ask.. All the kittens I have ever bread are STILL with their owners as I do keep in contact with them. So I have no troubles with placing kittens with loyal owners.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Please pay attention. Your cat does not care if she has kittens or not. In fact, if she were able to make that choice, she very likely would choose not to. You are risking her life because you think she has "the right" to have kittens. 

You are forcing your cat to go through endless heat cycles, painful matings, carrying a womb full of kittens, the pain and stress of giving birth because YOU enjoy it. Not her, you. This is not a good reason.

There is no reason for you to be making more kittens. The world is full of kittens already. Please reconsider, have your cat spayed and stop adding to the problem.


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

There's always gotta be a troll on the forums, and I guess this one's you.

I have my own beliefs you have yours, Have a nice day.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Decode said:


> I enjoy breeding kittens and giving them homes.
> I also believe that each cat has the right to experience giving birth at least once.
> *Who am I to say she can't have kittens?
> That's like me not allowing you to have children?* It's Absurd.
> And yes, before you ask.. All the kittens I have ever bread are STILL with their owners as I do keep in contact with them. So I have no troubles with placing kittens with loyal owners.


No, it is really not the same thing. Not the same thing at all, at all. Humans don't produce large numbers of kittens that go on to produce even more kittens ad nauseum. Humans make reasoned choices.

Cats mate because they are biologically engineered to do so. It has nothing to do with emotion.

One unspayed female can be responsible for 400,000 (or is it 700,000? ) cats in 7 years.

Please, educate yourself and spay and neuter your cats.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Just because I am against back yard breeders does not make me a troll.

Please, take the trouble to educate yourself about this.


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

I am educated, Thanks for the advice, but I'm well aware of the situations out there. Now if you don't mind. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop posting on this thread. I didn't ask for criticism.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

lorilu said:


> So...why do you feel the need to breed her at all?


"sell them...as what?"....what a stupid question...as a moggie!!! there are plenty of them! i am appauled at u!! and she wanted to breed her with a pure bred but unfortunately this hapend!


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Lorilu youve made your point.

anyways good luck and i hope she has a safe delievery


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

yeh gd luk! keep us posted and lots of pikkys!!xx


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

I defiantly will!, Whatever they may look like I'm sure they will be beautiful! =)


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

lorilu said:


> I am appalled that you plan to "sell" these kittens. Sell them..... as what? Why isn't this cat spayed at 18 months old?


Because she wants to breed from her! Accidents happen. Why shouldn't she sell the kittens? She won't get a lot for them because chances are they will all be black shorthairs, but she might cover some of her costs.

Liz


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks everyone =)


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Decode said:


> Do you think any of the litter will carry the blue eyes?


I think this is unlikely. Most likely they will have have green or gold coloured eyes. I believe the blue eye colour is only seen in pointed cats, so if you have a litter of black kittens they will not have blue eyes. But someone may be along to correct me in a bit.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

lizward said:


> *Because she wants to breed from her!* Accidents happen. Why shouldn't she sell the kittens? She won't get a lot for them because chances are they will all be black shorthairs, but she might cover some of her costs.
> 
> Liz


Why? Why does she "want to breed _from her_?". Why not just have a cat and enjoy her for who she is? Using a cat as a kitten factory is wrong on so many levels. I won't insult your intelligence by listing them, anyone can take the time to educate themselves on all the reasons this is wrong.

When I read "she has a right to have at least one litter" my jaw dropped, because I couldn't believe people really think that way. I've heard that it is used as a lame justification, but....I still cannot believe people actually think like that.

If you took the time to understand the biology of cats you would know that cats do not intellectually or emotionally require a litter of kittens. The heat cycle and the drive to mate is biological. chemical.

Unless this person is a registered breeder, breeding to improve the breed, there is no reason for this cat to not already be spayed.

And, now that she is having that "one litter she has a right to have" there is no reason she should not be spayed after the litter is weaned.

Imagine selling kittens to "get your money back" on a cat. She doesn't owe you anything.

You owe her a good easy life, without endless heats, endless litters, and the risks and dangers that goes with it, and you owe her a life free of the danger of uterine cancer and pyometra.

But no, you want to get your money back "out of her".

Please, for her sake, *for your cat's sake*, just think about this.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

We get trolls like you from time to time who seem to think they have the right to come on the breeding forums and tell everyone they should not be breeding. I suspect some of you will not be happy until there are no cats being bred at all.

There is no such thing as a "registered breeder". There is such a thing as a pedigree cat which is registered for breeding. I assume this is what the OP has. Once again, accidents happen. My first ever litter was accidental (and my lovely Burmese Champion girl went on to produce several more properly registered litters). I am in no position to condemn anyone whose cat has an accident and I refuse to do it. Anyone who thinks they will make money breeding half-pedigree cats that look like moggies will find out the hard way very quickly that it doesn't work, I can assure you of that. My first litter went for exactly the cost of vaccinations - at 12 weeks (which was then the minimum age the GCCF allowed them to go at). Even then, I ended up keeping one I did not intend to keep because she was black and white and no-one wanted to pay for a black and white kitten.

Liz


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## Kalipha (Jul 15, 2009)

It is difficult. I mean I can see where Lol is coming from - it isn't exactly 'an accident', if you let a non-neutered out (not an escape, you actually let her out because 'non-spayed cats deserve their freedom too') her getting knocked up by the local tom isn't an accident it is either a deliberate decision or negligence. And while I don't think that breeding your cat knowingly makes someone a bad person (hell I am getting my first queen in 6 days and breeding registered does really make you that 'special') the OP's listed reasons do have a sting of dangerous false logic in.

Breeding kittens because you will enjoy watching them grow, having your house full of kittens for a few months and sending them on to loving new homes and meeting their proud new owners? Do it carefully, vet your new homes, and I will leave the dangerous thorny subject of 'there are thousands upon thousands of moggie cats and kittens in shelters desperate for homes already' well alone because it really is a difficult one. But I admit my hackles started to rise at 'every cat deserves to have kittens' and 'me forcing her to not have kittens is like forcing a human not to have children' smacks of dangerous double-think. If every female cat had some god-given right to have one litter of kittens, every one-in-two cats would produce 2-7 more cats and it does not take a genius to realise how soon the world is swimming in homeless starving cats.

While I do not think it is right to condem someone for breeding, I do think the idea letting your cat have kittens is some wonderful life-affirming experience for her that it would be cruel to deprive her of is simply wrong, and more importantly if it became a widely held wrong belief it has scope to be a disaster with every owner of a female cat thinking they would be depriving their girl by not filling the world with even more kittens. 

You have kittens for yourself. Not for her. While I do not say this makes you a bad person, do not delude yourself.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I agree that every female cat producing one litter is not a sustainable situation except in areas with a very high death rate. To sustain the population, a female cat needs to have two kittens in her lifetime that survive to reproductive age. Four, and the population doubles. So your average litter will double the cat population IF every female cat has an average size litter and all four survive to adulthood. If that continues then the population will double every year which is of course totally unsustainable and is why routine kitten destruction was the norm until only a couple of generations ago. We certainly do not want to get back to that state or anywhere near it.

Liz


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Decode said:


> Yes, I did  She's a beautiful cat that will have beautiful kittens.
> I just wish It would have been with a purebred as well but I still have people wanting her kittens anyway  So all is good.


Just wondered why you let her out un-spayed if you wanted her to have kits with a purebreed?



Decode said:


> We indented for her to breed with another purebred Ragdoll.
> 
> And I am not selling them for profit whatsoever, the price is only to cover their Vaccination,Microchiping and Spaying.
> 
> ...


She may deserve her 'freedom' but animals cant speak for themselves and it is up to you to protect her and to have her spayed would have stopped her being mated by a random male cat, you could have just kept her in for her ped litter and harness trained her?

Remember not to let her out until she is spayed or she can become pregant again very quickly. Some cats are silent callers she may be one which is why you didnt notice.

Id expect all short hair kits and no blue eyes, might be lucky though!



Dozymoo said:


> I think this is unlikely. Most likely they will have have green or gold coloured eyes. I believe the blue eye colour is only seen in pointed cats, so if you have a litter of black kittens they will not have blue eyes. But someone may be along to correct me in a bit.


Ive seen solid cats with blue eyes!


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## Decode (Sep 5, 2009)

I understand peoples concerns here, and if you all want me to spay my cat so bad I will, or I'll lock her up?
It's quite hard to do so when I have two other spayed cat's who want to go outside. 

I'm starting to feel like an idiot for asking a simple question now.

I don't know if the father was black or a tabby, So who knows what they'll be.
Lets hope it was the tabby.

And for your information, Where I live there are hardly any strays OR cats/kittens at the pound. I looked at the local pound websites and there were 3? kittens and no cats.

So I'm not exactly contributing to a huge problem right now.

And yeah an unspayed female may have 400,000 kittens in 7 years but who's to say shes going to be unspayed and let out for 7 years?

I'll be buying a purebred male within the next few months and i'll have them "locked up" so you can sleep better at night knowing they aren't out making the world a worse off place.

All I asked was if my cat was pregnant...


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

It's always like this here when anyone announces an accidental litter - until they're actually born, then everyone ooohs and aahs over the kitten pictures.

Odd!

Liz


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## Cat Lover Chris (Jan 11, 2009)

Decode said:


> I understand peoples concerns here, and if you all want me to spay my cat so bad I will, or I'll lock her up?
> It's quite hard to do so when I have two other spayed cat's who want to go outside.
> 
> I'm starting to feel like an idiot for asking a simple question now.
> ...


Decode

I can understand why you may feel a little persecuted for asking a straightforward question and finding you suffer an avalanche of criticism. In the short while I have been on this forum, I have sadly seen this happen a lot. The administrator closed one thread because it got so bad.

I can tell you that when I have raised queries re possible problems with my cats, I have found the answers helpful, due to the experiences of others.

You should not have to justify what you do to others who you have never met. There are too many self-righteous people in this world. As I have said before, remember what this forum is meant to be about; we are all animal lovers who care for our pets. Occassionally, we all make mistakes, and consequently ask for advice. At least, by doing that, we are sensible enough to realise that some help is required!

Enjoy your cat and look after the kittens and make sure they go to good homes. That is all you can do.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Decode said:


> I understand peoples concerns here, and if you all want me to spay my cat so bad I will, or I'll lock her up?
> It's quite hard to do so when I have two other spayed cat's who want to go outside.
> 
> I'm starting to feel like an idiot for asking a simple question now.
> ...


It isnt that hard 2 of my boys go out and 5 stay in I think once has 1 sneaked past me in the entire time Ive had them 

Unless they are locked up in a cage, whats wrong with keeping them indoors?


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## thompsonk (Jul 4, 2009)

You're intending to breed and you asked if your cat was pregnant? Did you do any research into breeding before you decided to breed???


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Perhaps the troll isn't Lorilu.
Trolls usually start threads with scenarios to get members worked up. Now who would that be? I wonder.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

People get really het up about this topic, don't they. I'm glad my female cat arrived ready-spayed. I didn't know whether she was spayed or not and the vet wasn't able to say, either. I've had her nearly a year now, so she must be. Sweet as kittens are, I wouldn't like the hassle of them climbing up the curtains and wrecking my home, give me an adult cat any day! (Apart from the hunting that is.)


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## thompsonk (Jul 4, 2009)

Tell me about it! I was told by the RSPCA that my cat was already spayed...I now have 6, 6wk old kittens going crazy around my living room for a laser pen dot! (best £5 i ever spent!)

As much as I love them and have been able to find homes for them I'm looking forward to getting my house back

xx


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

How awful! That happened to my neighbour earlier this year, her vet told her that her new cat was spayed and that the lumps they could feel were a hernia or something, but they turned out to be two kittens, so she finds herself with three cats.


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## thompsonk (Jul 4, 2009)

I complained to RSPCA head office and they just said they have passed it onto the branch as they operate independently even tho it was the branch who was negligent in the first place! They were very dismissive when I told them Tilda was preganant too. I'm furious

xx


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> It isnt that hard 2 of my boys go out and 5 stay in I think once has 1 sneaked past me in the entire time Ive had them
> 
> Unless they are locked up in a cage, whats wrong with keeping them indoors?


Absolutely nothing Taylorbaby...all 5 of mine are indoor cats and I wouldnt have it any other way - especially as they are pedigree!! We have spent time, money and a great deal of effort 'cat proofing' our back garden (and we live on a quiet cul-de-sac too) so they can play out supervised. So, they get the freedom and yet retain the safety.

No way on earth would I let my female persians out, un-neutered knowing that they could get up the duff with some stray male. Personally, I find this incredibly cruel and selfish on the cat.

If I had intended on breeding from Audrey or Bella I would have kept them indoors until I had found the right male stud, an equal pedigree cat.

I'm not against breeding at all - all five of mine are from breeders, but if your going to breed then do it responsibly and always put the cat first.

Just my two-penneth anyway


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I can't see why you think it's cruel. The cat doesn't care whether she has kittens with a pedigree or with any old moggy, and the kittens are likely to be healthier if anything because of hybrid vigour. It's the breeder that suffers the consequences of an accidental mating, not the cats!

Liz


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## kitties (Aug 1, 2009)

Decode said:


> About a month ago I noticed my cat had gone into heat.
> She was very affectionate, and making the strange calls they do and actually sprayed me... which was kind of disgusting haha but I didn't think much would happen. All the cats around my house were desexed. But then I saw a black cat she was around and they became very noisy.
> 
> Nevertheless, I was rubbing her tummy yesterday and noticed her nipples were larger.
> ...


My cat got pregnant by a cat I had never seen before and apart from coming back 2 days later, never seen again.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Well, I don't think cats generally go in for dating and getting to know each other first


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## louiseddb (Jan 31, 2008)

lizward said:


> I can't see why you think it's cruel. The cat doesn't care whether she has kittens with a pedigree or with any old moggy, and the kittens are likely to be healthier if anything because of hybrid vigour. It's the breeder that suffers the consequences of an accidental mating, not the cats!
> 
> Liz


Its not cruel for the cats its nature as intended BUT what about all the cats and kittens in rescue. Its cruel to create more when there are 1000s in rescue. Please get her spayed or keep her in! Shame on the tom owners, you can get neutering free, i dont see why anyone cant stop the numbers of unwanted cats just by simply neutering them. tut tut


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

louiseddb said:


> Its not cruel for the cats its nature as intended BUT what about all the cats and kittens in rescue. Its cruel to create more when there are 1000s in rescue. Please get her spayed or keep her in! Shame on the tom owners, you can get neutering free, i dont see why anyone cant stop the numbers of unwanted cats just by simply neutering them. tut tut


I certainly agree that the number one reason for persuading people to spay their cats is the cat population issue. Pedigrees add to the population too, however, and it seems very hypocritical to me for pedigree breeders to complain that others are breeding when they are breeding themselves.

Neutering all the toms, if it could be done, would not solve the problem. Well, OK it would solve one problem but it would create a lot more. Keeping entire female cats unbred is simply not a long term option, the cats make themselves ill. Female cats are designed to produce two litters a year. Any method of messing with this, other than spaying, has its risks.

Liz


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

louiseddb said:


> Please get her spayed or keep her in! Shame on the tom owners, you can get neutering free


Wow, where?


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## Cat Lover Chris (Jan 11, 2009)

lizward said:


> I certainly agree that the number one reason for persuading people to spay their cats is the cat population issue. Pedigrees add to the population too, however, and it seems very hypocritical to me for pedigree breeders to complain that others are breeding when they are breeding themselves.
> 
> Liz


Well done Liz, for making this point. I have said the same thing in a few other threads over the last year. It is good to see some rational opinion.

You are likely to find one or two of the pedigree breeders will disagree very strongly, but hey, this is a democratic society with free speech as one of our hard fought rights!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Thank you Chris. There are a few things that happen frequently on boards like this that I don't like. One is people jumping to the worst possible conclusion, and the other is hypocrisy. 

Liz


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

lizward said:


> I can't see why you think it's cruel. The cat doesn't care whether she has kittens with a pedigree or with any old moggy, and the kittens are likely to be healthier if anything because of hybrid vigour. It's the breeder that suffers the consequences of an accidental mating, not the cats!
> 
> Liz


Because I do Liz thats why, and I did say it was my opinion which I am entitled to. In my eyes it is cruel and very irresponsible. Why pay alot of money for a pedigree cat then let it out to be free to get my pregnant by any tom (!) dick or harry?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Your financial argument is perfectly sound, Audsmum. I still don't understand why you think it is cruel. Or perhaps I should ask, what is it that you consider to be cruel, letting the cat out, or random breeding? And why?

Liz


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

Nobody has mentioned what I consider to be the worst thing about this situation, the fact that the cat was impregnated by an unknown tom who could be riddled with anything! The cat and her kittens health may be at stake I think this should be the main concern


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

No, honestly, they probably won't be - the dangers are grossly exaggerated here on a regular basis. FIV is simply not transmitted sexually in cats. As for FeLV (against which there exists a very effective vaccine), sexual transmission is not listed as a means of transmission on any veterinary website I have seen. In fact the danger would be much greater from a proper stud visit where the girl shared the boy's water bowl and food and the two were engaged in mutual grooming. Respiratory viruses aren't caught that way either. Cats are designed to be promiscuous and simply don't suffer the consequences of it in the way that humans do. If anything, hybrid vigour being what it is, the kittens are likely to be healthier than pedigree ones (sickening as that is to us breeders!). Entire males can catch nasties from fighting, but they don't pass those onto the females unless those females are also fighting or unless they actually draw blood during the mating process, which is something I have never seen in 16 years of breeding.

Liz


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Decode said:


> I understand peoples concerns here, and if you all want me to spay my cat so bad I will, or I'll lock her up?
> It's quite hard to do so when I have two other spayed cat's who want to go outside.
> 
> .


get her spayed, then all three can go out.



Decode said:


> I'm starting to feel like an idiot for asking a simple question now.
> 
> .


It's not your questions that bother me. It's your ....attitude...I guess is the word. so what if she's pretty? there are millions of pretty cats already made just as special as yours. However, if you have to ask if a cat is pregnant, then you should not be breeding cats, it means you are not educated on breeding cats.



Decode said:


> I don't know if the father was black or a tabby, So who knows what they'll be.
> Lets hope it was the tabby.
> 
> ..


why? because black cats aren't "pretty?"



Decode said:


> And for your information, Where I live there are hardly any strays OR cats/kittens at the pound. I looked at the local pound websites and there were 3? kittens and no cats.
> 
> So I'm not exactly contributing to a huge problem right now.
> 
> .


But you'll do your best to add to it, I guess.



Decode said:


> I
> 
> And yeah an unspayed female may have 400,000 kittens in 7 years but who's to say shes going to be unspayed and let out for 7 years?
> 
> .


It's not one cat who has 400,000 kittens. It's all the offspring, and the offspring of the offspring and the offspring of the offspring of the offspring. Do a little more reading.



Decode said:


> I'll be buying a purebred male within the next few months and i'll have them "locked up" so you can sleep better at night knowing they aren't out making the world a worse off place.
> 
> ..


words fail me....



Decode said:


> All I asked was if my cat was pregnant...


again, if you have to ask..you should not be breeding.

I don't mean to sound hostile or "troll". But clearly, from this one post, you are NOT educated as to what is involved in breeding, and the risks you are putting your cat to, and what is involved as to the over population of unwanted cats.

Please, get her spayed either now, before it's too late, or after this litter is weaned. If you want to raise kittens I'm sure there is a local shelter or rescue looking for a foster home for a pregnant stray.


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

lizward said:


> Your financial argument is perfectly sound, Audsmum. I still don't understand why you think it is cruel. Or perhaps I should ask, what is it that you consider to be cruel, letting the cat out, or random breeding? And why?
> 
> Liz


Its nothing about finance Liz. My cats are my absolute world and I would do everything in my power to stop them coming to any harm or danger. I made the choice to have pedigree cats and I took on the responsibilities. I therefore believe you should carry this on in all aspects of your cats life - including who and what it should be bred with!

I think its cruel letting a pedigree cat out, unspayed when god knows anything can happen to it. I think its cruel not being bothered about the fact its now up the duff with the local tom cat who could have the worst personality / trait ever (what will the kittens turn out like?). I believe in responsible breeders, those who take the time to put their cats first, those that would ensure it is bred with the finest stud and not just bred for the kittens. The OP, to me, does not fit into any of these categories.

I think i have explained myself for my thoughts on more than one occasion on here Liz. If people are prepared to post on an open, pet-mad forum then they should expect opinions and advice - I am merely giving my opinion. This post is not about why I think irresponsible breeding is a no no, this is about educating the OP and preventing it happen again.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

But letting cats out IS still the norm in this country and unless you think pedigree cats should be treated differently to moggies because they have finer feelings or something, I really don't see how you can think it is cruel to let a pedigree out in circumstances where it is OK to let a moggy out. There is only one additional danger to pedigree cats and that is the danger of theft. Against that, pedigree cats are much more likely to be microchipped and much easier to identify if they are seen wandering around the neighbourhood - and pedigree cats living in secure pens outside are probably far more likely to be stolen, because having them in a pen outside gives the message that they are valuable. Let's face it, the great majority of cat "thefts" are no more than silly people assuming that the pretty cat that visits their garden and accepts their chicken or prawns must be starving and homeless.

As for the tom cat, again I really don't see why it is a problem for the cat or the kittens and I have explained why. There is far too much scaremongering on these forums. The one that suffers is the owner!

That the OP needs advice, I agree. Having one entire male cat with just one female is a non-starter, but he hasn't actually got the cat yet and it may be that he just hasn't thought it through. If he's going to be breeding properly he'll have difficulty getting a male for breeding at this stage anyway.

But what's done is done and if you are one of these people who think spaying pregnant cats is the answer to everything then that's up to you I suppose, but don't expect the majority of us on this forum to agree with you.

Liz


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## Kalipha (Jul 15, 2009)

Genuinely, who the father is has no bearing, at all, in any way, on the wellbeing of the mother. That's not opinion, that is simply fact, so if you're stating that 1 litter of kittens by a stray male is cruel and 1 litter of kittens by a pedigree stud is not, that is not 'just your opinion', you are simply wrong. Sorry.

There are other potential issues. If a female is let out constantly unspayed she will have more litters than is healthy (so it's not '1 litter' it's endless litters which IS cruel). There's the kittens, which will be easier to home if they are pedigrees most likely, so that's a point in favour of a 'real' stud. But on the assumption there is to be 1 litter, and this 1 litter could be a stray male or a pedigree male, in terms of the experience and health of the mother goes having the father a stray simply is not, in any way, cruel. Not any more than having her have babies by a pedigree stud is. You subject your cat to potential health dangers of pregnancy regardless of the father and just because (for instance) you feel you are working for a greater good to make lovely perfect pedigree kittens does not change the risks to the mother.


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

If the health of the father is of no consequence to the kittens or mother then why do ped breeders have their studs health checked? I am sure this is to ensure the heath and well being of the mother and kittens


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I am the only one tired of this thread? I am a tad tired anyways. I need to take it of my subscriptions. It's not even evolving into anything either.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

mellowma said:


> I am the only one tired of this thread? I am a tad tired anyways. I need to take it of my subscriptions. It's not even evolving into anything either.


The stuff about pedigree toms being vastly superior to dirty old moggy tomcats gave me a good laugh though!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Decode said:


> I enjoy breeding kittens and giving them homes.


*This is not a one off.*

I am not going to get into the whys or whynots about pedigree breeding vs crossbreed vs moggies.

However, this was a deliberate act by the OP to get this girl pregnant, by the local tom.
That is not the actions I think of someone who cares about their cat, nor who cares about the kittens either.

That is someone who just *wants* kittens, full stop. Whether to sell, whether to be the centre of attention with their friends, whether because they just like kittens I am not sure but when there are a huge number of cats languishing in rescue with no hope of a home then I feel in order to justify breeding cats at all you should try and be responsible and make sure the cats you are breeding with, both of them, are as healthy as possible no matter what their family history, pedigree or not. 
This tom cat could have anything, heart or lung disease, skin diseases, kidney diseases, his temperament may be very poor, etc all those can be hereditary and passed on to his kittens. He may have had a number of infections including herpes, calici or chlamydia and has passed those onto your queen who in turn may be a threat to your kittens health. Moggie cats these days can be very inbred due to the lack of unneutered cats or if they live in feral colonies and hence the myth that moggie cats are somehow very healthy is very often a myth. You have no idea if the father of your kittens is a fat pampered tom cat or a scabby inbred feral.
As you have no clue of his true identity, far less had him go through a simple vet check if nothing else, then that is what I object to.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

claire17480 said:


> If the health of the father is of no consequence to the kittens or mother then *why do ped breeders have their studs health checked? *I am sure this is to ensure the heath and well being of the mother and kittens


because breeding, true breeding, if for the *betterment of the breed. * There is no other genuine logical reason for breeding.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

claire17480 said:


> If the health of the father is of no consequence to the kittens or mother then why do ped breeders have their studs health checked? I am sure this is to ensure the heath and well being of the mother and kittens


It would be a matter of checking for hereditary defects which, by their very nature, are FAR more common in pedigree cats. It does depend on the breed - no checks are required for my breed but for some the GCCF requires negative certificates for particular things that are high-risk for that breed. It's not a general health check, though of course we do look after our boys!

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> *This is not a one off.*
> 
> I am not going to get into the whys or whynots about pedigree breeding vs crossbreed vs moggies.
> 
> ...


First, the OP did not deliberately seek out this cat to get his girl pregnant, he lets her out, that's all. It isn't a crime. It might have been unwise, if he isn't well accustomed to seeing the early signs of a female cat calling (in fact, since she got pregnant, I think we can safely conclude that in this case it was indeed unwise), but that does not mean that having her mated with a moggy was a deliberate decision. Second, the URT viruses you list are far more easily caught at cat shows than through random mating in an area (the open air) with very good air flow.

Liz


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

I thought the ped reg papers proved the quality of the stud, however, even with papers health checks are still required.
My point is, if there were no risk to mum and babies the reg papers would be enough but they aren't, I stand by my original post that the main issue here is the health and wellbeing of mum and babies and allowing any cat to get knocked up by the local tom is not ensuring this, I don't care what anyone says. I am pretty sure there is not one of you out there who would intentionally let their cat get pregnant by a random, I am merely pointing out that despite many people going on about kitten population and all the other downsides associated with moggie breeding that health of mum and bubs was neglected and in my eyes its a problem.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lorilu said:


> because breeding, true breeding, if for the *betterment of the breed. * There is no other genuine logical reason for breeding.


Many things in life have no logic. That's life I guess. I am breeding and yes of course I will look for the best stud for my girl as I want to produce stunning kittens with lovely temperament but to be honest I just like breeding.

I love kittens, cats etc. I love having kittens in the house. Selfish ?


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

So all the moggie kittens that frequently end up with cat flu in rescue get it at cat shows??

Our CP doesn't have a shelter so all the cats/kittens come from private homes/ farms/industrial estates/streets etc and I can assure you none have been to a cat show.

Moggies have a lot of genetic conditions, they are just not recognised as such as the lines are not studied in depth like pedigree cats are, so a kitten with a heart murmur for instance is only seen as a one off, no one knows or keeps in touch with the rest of the litter or the parents or the grandparents. They leave for their homes at 8 weeks, so how could anyone possibly keep track.

This person has had kittens before as you can see from their post, so was unaware that letting her out would mean she would get pregnant, being unneutered at 18 months.


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

mellowma said:


> Many things in life have no logic. That's life I guess. I am breeding and yes of course I will look for the best stud for my girl as I want to produce stunning kittens with lovely temperament but to be honest I just like breeding.
> 
> I love kittens, cats etc. I love having kittens in the house. Selfish ?


I don't think your selfish, as long as you are financially able to care for the queen and kittens and are prepared to keep them if they don't find homes then I have no issues with anyone breeding any type of cat, ped or mog (now I'm gonni be in trouble).
I was shocked to hear someone with a registered ragdoll was not in the slightest bit worried about the fact that she was pregnant by an unknown, and neither does anyone else seem to be. There is a risk to mum and babies nobody knows who the tom is, what he is carrying or if he is stray?


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

claire17480 said:


> I don't think your selfish, as long as you are financially able to care for the queen and kittens and are prepared to keep them if they don't find homes then I have no issues with anyone breeding any type of cat, ped or mog (now I'm gonni be in trouble).
> I was shocked to hear someone with a registered ragdoll was not in the slightest bit worried about the fact that she was pregnant by an unknown, and neither does anyone else seem to be. There is a risk to mum and babies nobody knows who the tom is, what he is carrying or if he is stray?


I don't understand this snobbishness about pedigrees and it gets up my nose a bit. All my cats have been mogs, some of them stray toms, and they've got as much right to exist as a pedigree, surely? Beautiful as pedigrees are, I wouldn't go out and buy a cat when there have always been needy, unwanted cats on my doorstep when I've lived in deprived areas.


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

Lulu's owner said:


> I don't understand this snobbishness about pedigrees and it gets up my nose a bit. All my cats have been mogs, some of them stray toms, and they've got as much right to exist as a pedigree, surely? Beautiful as pedigrees are, I wouldn't go out and buy a cat when there have always been needy, unwanted cats on my doorstep when I've lived in deprived areas.


I'm sorry but where in anything I have said do I come across as snobby? Ive got three moggies and I an assure you if I was negligent enough to have one of them knocked up I would be right at the vets having her tested for everything. I don't care whether its a moggie or not I still don't think its a good idea to have her pregnant by any random tom cat!

Accidents happen but this wasn't an accident and I have been trying to present a possible problem associated with letting cats get pregnant by unknown toms, I'm not interested in having a debate about mogs vs ped or breeding in general.

My cats are pets 2 are spayed one is too young but is due to be done in November, none of them get out but even if they did the entire would not be going anywhere until she was spayed. This is my choice and I made my choices based on what I believe to be best for my cats.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

mellowma said:


> Many things in life have no logic. That's life I guess. I am breeding and yes of course I will look for the best stud for my girl as I want to produce stunning kittens with lovely temperament but to be honest I just like breeding.
> 
> I love kittens, cats etc. I love having kittens in the house. Selfish ?


Yeah. Lots of already pregnant strays, most of the year round if you want pregnant cats, laboring cats, and kittens in the house. You could be fostering, if kittens is what you want.

I just don't understand why anyone would want to put a cat through the constant heats and pain of intercourse and stress of carrying and risk of labor, not to mention the danger of pyometra and uterine cancer,(and, as mentioned, exposure to disease, if choosing random matings) for such selfish reasons.

<shrug>

lolu


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> So all the moggie kittens that frequently end up with cat flu in rescue get it at cat shows??


Of course not, that isn't what I said. They get it from their mothers. Where their mothers get it from is another question, from their own mothers, from other cats in the house, from other cats they socialise with which includes neuters and other girls. They DON'T catch it from the mating process!



> This person has had kittens before as you can see from their post, so was unaware that letting her out would mean she would get pregnant, being unneutered at 18 months.


Cats do not get pregnant every time they go out, any more than humans do. If he didn't realise the cat was calling and let her out then he did not do it deliberately. However I grant you that from his first post it certainly looks as if he deliberately let the cat out knowing that she was calling, in which case he presumably wanted kittens. I didn't see anywhere where he said he had kittens before?

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lorilu said:


> Yeah. Lots of already pregnant strays, most of the year round if you want pregnant cats, laboring cats, and kittens in the house. You could be fostering, if kittens is what you want.
> 
> I just don't understand why anyone would want to put a cat through the constant heats and pain of intercourse and stress of carrying and risk of labor, not to mention the danger of pyometra and uterine cancer,(and, as mentioned, exposure to disease, if choosing random matings) for such selfish reasons.
> 
> ...


What with one Ragdoll taken to a stud ? 

Sorry 2 ragdolls but one has been spayed after her first litter. Where you getting your *lots* from my love ? 

Please try to think outside your little box.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

claire17480 said:


> Ive got three moggies and I an assure you if I was negligent enough to have one of them knocked up I would be right at the vets having her tested for everything.


You'd be wasting your money then, and probably the vets would have a good laugh at your expense once you had gone. But believe what you want to, no-one's stopping you. However scare-mongering tactics are not the best way to proceed on forums like this, IMO.

Liz


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Lizward said:


> I didn't see anywhere where he said he had kittens before?


See this post.


Decode said:


> I enjoy breeding kittens and giving them homes.
> .........All the kittens I have ever bread are STILL with their owners as I do keep in contact with them. So I have no troubles with placing kittens with loyal owners.


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

OK I'm done with this I am not prepared to get into any kind of childish mud slinging. This "snobby" moggie owner will keep her "scaremongering" (caring and concerned) views to herself. Pardon me for airing my views on a public forum, I must once again check the definition of a forum ut:


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

This always happens.
We get caring and concerned people who actually care about their cat's health being put down by those who think it is OK to let an 18 month old cat outside to get pregnant. Surely uncontrolled breeding like this is irresponsible whether or not you agree with moggie or cross-bred breeding. 

If I have a Ragdoll queen and I know two doors down there is a pedigree unneutered Ragdoll boy who is free ranging. Is that proper breeding practise to let her out to get mated by him hopefully? 
Would the GCCF agree with that method of breeding? Is that responsible?

Perhaps the risks in this case are minimal, but no-one really knows that and to make out that a vet would laugh at anyone who was trying to do the best for their cat's health is not right.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

*Ok i think thats enough mud slinging from members i no im not a mod anymore but have some grace to be nice and not personally attacking members who clearly care for their animals 
Can we stick to the topic in hand and keep it friendly please  *


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> This always happens.
> We get caring and concerned people who actually care about their cat's health being put down by those who think it is OK to let an 18 month old cat outside to get pregnant. Surely uncontrolled breeding like this is irresponsible whether or not you agree with moggie or cross-bred breeding.


Well, it IS how the great majority of kittens in the world are born! Provided they are not advertised as something they are not, and provided the owner is prepared to pay any vet bills incurred, take full responsibility for homing the kittens, and provided there is not a serious cat over population problem (and if there is, then ALL breeders contribute to it), then no, I don't see it as irresponsible. Quite why anyone would want to do it with a registered pedigree when they could go to a proper stud instead, I don't know, but that is another issue. I have said many times and repeat, any accusations of irresponsibility can be thrown at pedigree breeders just as much as at moggy breeders. Both increase the cat population and that is the issue as far as I am concerned.



> If I have a Ragdoll queen and I know two doors down there is a pedigree unneutered Ragdoll boy who is free ranging. Is that proper breeding practise to let her out to get mated by him hopefully?


Only if you want to breed unregisterable raggies, which will be far less lucrative than breeding registered ones. And your cat club probably wouldn't be too impressed.



> Would the GCCF agree with that method of breeding? Is that responsible?


 The GCCF has no rule against it. They just won't register the kittens except as "no recognised breed".

And another thing I have said here many times, it amazes me that most on this forum scream blue murder when someone lets an entire female cat out, and then go completely gooey every time someone posts about the arrival of a litter of moggy kittens. Where do you all imagine those moggy kittens came from - controlled breeding with a moggy stud?

Liz


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

I agree with you entirely, but once the kittens are here it's a different matter. They can't be sent back


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## Ladywiccana (Feb 24, 2008)

*The op has not posted since the 8th so i am now going to close this thread!*


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