# Prefixes and GCCF breeder scheme



## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

Hi. Well I've finally sent my prefix form off, hoping I get my first choice of name. Wonder how long it will be before I find out! Feel all excited!
I have seen on breeders say they are proud member of GCCF breeders scheme and was just wondering is any of you are members and why? What is the reason for it? I thought that anyone breeding and registering/declaring GCCF kittens had to follow the same rules/ethics and just curious.


----------



## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

Excuse the spelling mistakes and few missing words. Oops


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_I sent mine off in January, im sure I have seen some where on here about the breeder scheme......._


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Time flies said:


> Hi. Well I've finally sent my prefix form off, hoping I get my first choice of name. Wonder how long it will be before I find out! Feel all excited!
> I have seen on breeders say they are proud member of GCCF breeders scheme and was just wondering is any of you are members and why? What is the reason for it? I thought that anyone breeding and registering/declaring GCCF kittens had to follow the same rules/ethics and just curious.


I joined the Breeder Scheme in March of last year when it launched - even though I have mixed feelings about the scheme. Very basically speaking, breeders who are scheme members must adhere to an enhanced code of ethics, i.e. they have "rules"... whereby breeders who are not in the scheme have "recommendations", i.e. in regard to vaccinations, certain health tests, age that the kittens leave home, etc, etc. That is not to say, of course, that there aren't many, many excellent breeders who aren't in the scheme - witnessed by the fact that it still has a very limited number of members. It';s not proving very popular with breeders.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I didn't join, partly because it was introduced just as there is great debate over the timing of vaccinations for greatest efficacy. As a breeder I feel I have to keep up to date with veterinary advances and do the very best by my kittens. I also feel honour bound to advise my buyers to this effect. The problem with turning recommendations into hard and fast rules is that it leaves no room to take advantage of new knowledge.


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I asked a few people that had joined and they didn't seem to see any benefit so I didn't join.


----------



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I didnt join,it really didnt appeal to me.


----------



## Cats cats cats (Feb 4, 2011)

colliemerles said:


> _I sent mine off in January, im sure I have seen some where on here about the breeder scheme......._


Are you going to breed CM ?


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Cats cats cats said:


> Are you going to breed CM ?


_I do plan to, so hopefully yes._


----------



## Cats cats cats (Feb 4, 2011)

colliemerles said:


> _I do plan to, so hopefully yes._


Well you're a dark horse   do you have a girl yet ? What breed ? Exciting times


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Cats cats cats said:


> Well you're a dark horse   do you have a girl yet ? What breed ? Exciting times


_don't worry I will keep you posted, . Not sure I will be able to part with any kittens though._


----------



## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

I didn't join the scheme, I just don't see the benefits, if breeders homes are not checked then how can GCCF recommend them? it's probably a way for them to make money from people joining, not sure how much it is to join but I have no intentions of joining anyway. I vaccinate my kittens, they are health checked, they are wormed, registered, have pedigree papers, free insurance, our queens have no more than 3 litters in two years, we have our prefix, we use active registered GCCF studs, etc etc, all this is put in my adverts so I don't see what joining the breeder scheme can achieve any different, most people wanting kittens wont have heard of it anyway and probably wont even think of contacting gccf, they will look at ads in cat magazines and online pet sites.
All the best with getting your prefix, hope you get your first choice, I got my second choice but by the time they sent it to me I had already changed my mind and was hoping for my second choice anyway, it took them a long time to send mine, they said they hadn't received our cheque so we complained to Royal Mail etc, then we contacted gccf a few weeks later to be told they had received it but misplaced it and filed it in the wrong place.


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Currently there is no home checking and I can never see that happening. There is a system in place whereby new owners send a completed feedback form to GCCF. This seems a bit hit and miss, with the emphasis on miss rather than hit; I recently received a reminder to renew my subscription for this year and mention was made that none of my feedback forms had been returned - that's despite me enclosing a stamped envelope and encouraging people all the way out of the door to please do it.

You're right that most people haven't heard of it and it's a pity that GCCF's budget for marketing and advertising is very limited. For most of last year, nobody who contacted me seemed particularly interested in the scheme. However, amongst the kitten enquiries I have had in the last two weeks, three specifically mentioned the scheme; one had simply read the details on GCCF web site and decided she wanted to purchase a kitten from a scheme member. The other two people had both previously had a very bad experience buying BSH kittens (both kittens were correctly registered from GCCF prefix holder breeders) and reading the scheme details had made them decide to only contact scheme members.



sharonbee said:


> I didn't join the scheme, I just don't see the benefits, if breeders homes are not checked then how can GCCF recommend them? it's probably a way for them to make money from people joining, not sure how much it is to join but I have no intentions of joining anyway. I vaccinate my kittens, they are health checked, they are wormed, registered, have pedigree papers, free insurance, our queens have no more than 3 litters in two years, we have our prefix, we use active registered GCCF studs, etc etc, all this is put in my adverts so I don't see what joining the breeder scheme can achieve any different, most people wanting kittens wont have heard of it anyway and probably wont even think of contacting gccf, they will look at ads in cat magazines and online pet sites.
> All the best with getting your prefix, hope you get your first choice, I got my second choice but by the time they sent it to me I had already changed my mind and was hoping for my second choice anyway, it took them a long time to send mine, they said they hadn't received our cheque so we complained to Royal Mail etc, then we contacted gccf a few weeks later to be told they had received it but misplaced it and filed it in the wrong place.


----------



## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

Thanks very much everyone. I will have to look into it a bit more. On one hand I'd been thinking why not if I'm going to be doing everything they say you should do anyway but then I start thinking, for example, we got one of our kittens a couple of days early as the OH had a few extra days holiday, it suited us and the breeder, she was happy with the kitten and because we were travelling a long way thought it might take a few hours off the trip mid week. Anyway, everything was fine, and I wouldn't see anything wrong with that but if I did that while in the breeder scheme I could get into trouble with my name on a list and everyone who saw it would think I was a bad breeder. (Not that I'm planning on letting kittens go early but in certain situations I don't think a couple of days would hurt)
Thanks Sharonbee, fingers crossed I get my first choice as they get steadily worse, lol. I like your prefix name!
Hope you hear back from them soon Colliemerles


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The other two people had both previously had a very bad experience buying BSH kittens *(both kittens were correctly registered from GCCF prefix holder breeders)* and reading the scheme details had made them decide to only contact scheme members


I can't see what difference a breeder being in the scheme makes for these buyers. There are bad breeders who follow all GCCF guidelines.


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

havoc said:


> I can't see what difference a breeder being in the scheme makes for these buyers. There are bad breeders who follow all GCCF guidelines.


Can't disagree really. I had no intention of joining the scheme for the sole reason that I don't like what is, in effect, a two tier system. Either GCCF somehow manage (and I'm told they cannot) to change all the relevant recommendations to rules which everyone who registers kittens with them are bound by... or things stayed as they were, i.e. no Breeder Scheme. The only thing that swung it for me in the end was the 'argument' that it gives buyers a definite kind of bench mark so they know absolutely what to expect of a breeder and that the scheme was a "start" and would be "further developed over time". I've put those things in quote marks because they aren't my words... but I thought okay, I'll give it a whirl.

I'm told, quite reliably I believe, that many breeders have been refused entry to the scheme on application and a small number of other breeders have already been booted off the scheme. I'm still not convinced.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I'd be interested to know what reasons they have for refusing applications. The criteria for joining don't mention anything about it relying on GCCF office staff having a good day at work so the criteria really should be public knowledge.


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

havoc said:


> I'd be interested to know what reasons they have for refusing applications. The criteria for joining don't mention anything about it relying on GCCF office staff having a good day at work so the criteria really should be public knowledge.


Again, that's difficult to dispute. Especially with the over zealous GCCF staff member and wording of ads thing several months ago. It is difficult to imagine how the refusals came about as, it would seem to me, judging a breeder on past 'transgressions' wouldn't seem possible so long as their vet signed the relevant form/declaration and also the breeder applying to join is surely signing up to something they agree to do from the moment their membership becomes effective. Who knows.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

The only reasonable grounds I can think of which may catch some out would be if someone wasn't current with breed club membership.


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Either GCCF somehow manage (and I'm told they cannot) to change all the relevant recommendations to rules which everyone who registers kittens with them are bound by


What was the reason why they can't?


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I think it's because the breeder scheme has been an administrative/business thing, a marketing tool. As a registration body it isn't a proper function of the GCCF to lay down rules outside of registration matters.


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

What Havoc said. I've been continually told that GCCF cannot enforce rules. Personally, I don't believe it. The Breeder Scheme of course you're signing up *voluntarily* to the rules.


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Ah ok, our governing bodies do have rules on things like kitten minimum age for rehoming, not just a recommendation.


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> What Havoc said. I've been continually told that GCCF cannot enforce rules. Personally, I don't believe it. The Breeder Scheme of course you're signing up *voluntarily* to the rules.


It does enforce it's rules - look at the suspension lists. However recommendations can't be enforced and IMHO some of them should be changed to rules.


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Cats cats cats said:


> Well you're a dark horse   do you have a girl yet ? What breed ? Exciting times


_got my prefix back today.........._


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

colliemerles said:


> _got my prefix back today.........._


Good news! Care to tell us what it is? And/or what breed?


----------



## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Thats fantastic


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

*LORRIBEX. I got my maine coon Summer-Rainbow on the active, and the breeder is going to mentor me. I also got Smudge from her as a neuter pet. its Summers birthday on Friday, she will be one .*


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> It does enforce it's rules - look at the suspension lists. However recommendations can't be enforced and IMHO some of them should be changed to rules.


Yes it does. If you look you'll see the rules are concerned mainly with registration and paperwork. It's a minefield as to which recommendations could be converted to rules as anything subject to veterinary opinion can't be.


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> Yes it does. If you look you'll see the rules are concerned mainly with registration and paperwork. It's a minefield as to which recommendations could be converted to rules as anything subject to veterinary opinion can't be.


They could encourage early neutering of kittens not registered active (1a)

They could require all kittens to be registered (not declaring) could be a rule - declared kittens can be registered active by their new owners, as can kittens from unregistered litters (rules 3b, 3c).

Not allowing unregistered queens to visit a registered stud could easily be a rule. (3g)

Not big changes, but they might as well close some of the loopholes.


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

colliemerles said:


> *LORRIBEX. I got my maine coon Summer-Rainbow on the active, and the breeder is going to mentor me. I also got Smudge from her as a neuter pet. its Summers birthday on Friday, she will be one .*


I see it's already on the GCCF website. 

If it was mine I'd be rushing to register it (or lorribex-cats) as a domain, with Wordpress, and so on.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> They could encourage early neutering of kittens not registered active (1a)


Encourage or make it a rule?



> They could require all kittens to be registered (not declaring) could be a rule - declared kittens can be registered active by their new owners, as can kittens from unregistered litters (rules 3b, 3c).
> 
> Not allowing unregistered queens to visit a registered stud could easily be a rule. (3g)


What do you consider unregistered? Do you mean not registered with the GCCF? Should my dual registered boy not be available to TICA registered girls?

It all seems very easy if the GCCF is the only registration body you recognise or deal with. Not quite so simple when you realise there's a whole big world out there which they don't control.


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> Encourage or make it a rule?
> 
> What do you consider unregistered? Do you mean not registered with the GCCF? Should my dual registered boy not be available to TICA registered girls?
> 
> It all seems very easy if the GCCF is the only registration body you recognise or deal with. Not quite so simple when you realise there's a whole big world out there which they don't control.


Early neutering cannot be made a rule as it's a vetinary thing. However it can and (in my view) should be encouraged. We all know where a lot of BYBs get their cats - they buy pet cats and don't neuter them.

The full text of 3g is clear about other registries but it lets unregistered queens through. If you read it you will see where I am coming from.

http://www.gccfcats.org/pdf/Rules.pdf

(3g is on page 4)


----------



## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

colliemerles said:


> *LORRIBEX. I got my maine coon Summer-Rainbow on the active, and the breeder is going to mentor me. I also got Smudge from her as a neuter pet. its Summers birthday on Friday, she will be one .*


Congrats!  I'd love to give my hand at breeding one day, waaaaaaaaaaay in the future, like when I retire in 50 years or something


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Jellypi3 said:


> Congrats!  I'd love to give my hand at breeding one day, waaaaaaaaaaay in the future, like when I retire in 50 years or something


I'm not retired, but I've moved twice to be in the right house and I work at home.


----------



## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

If I worked from home or gave up work for human breeding I might be tempted to be honest, but I work far too many hours and if I was going to do it I'd do it the right way and want to be there 24//7 in case of any issues etc. 

Moving house...now that's dedidcation


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Early neutering cannot be made a rule as it's a vetinary thing. However it can and (in my view) should be encouraged.


Its a rule here with at least one body, and 2 states also have laws regarding neutering 
For others its strongly recommended, I expect all will make it a rule at some point.


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Jellypi3 said:


> <snip>
> 
> Moving house...now that's dedidcation


Twice! My inheritance funded the second move and I waited until Rufus departed to get my breeding girl. Had to rehome one of the others as she was bullying the girl.

The cats have an escape-proof garden here.


----------



## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Twice! My inheritance funded the second move and I waited until Rufus departed to get my breeding girl. Had to rehome one of the others as she was bullying the girl.
> 
> The cats have an escape-proof garden here.


That sounds ideal  One day...just need to tell the OH to get more promotions!


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Twice! My inheritance funded the second move. The cats have an escape-proof garden here.


I moved twice too lol had to be the right house, right location, neighbours not right next door


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

BTW I don't let kittens in the garden. It's not fair if they are going to an indoor-only home, plus they might be able to get out where an adult can't.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The full text of 3g is clear about other registries but it lets unregistered queens through. If you read it you will see where I am coming from.


It is clear about not accepting queens from other registries which are endorsed not for breeding. Nothing much more can be said because the registries are not official organisations. They don't make law about cats though I know some people do seem to want to endow them with amazing scope and power. They know they can only make rules and recommendations about cats registered with them and for breeders who wish to register kittens with them. Nothing else is anything to do with them. The GCCF came close to the edge financially and now has to admit it's just a business needing to make profit. Registrations have been well down in the last few years and the last thing they'd want to do is discourage potential growth.


----------



## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

Glad you've got your prefix Colliemerles 
Can anyone tell me where I can find the ones they are considering?
All I can find are the lists of the ones that are already approved


----------



## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

Time flies said:


> Glad you've got your prefix Colliemerles


I missed this, how exciting!


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I think this is what you mean? Right at the bottom of the page...

the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy


----------



## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

Thanks gskinner, I was on that page but didn't even notice that bit at the bottom. Mines not blooming there so must have only just missed the last meeting!


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Time flies said:


> Thanks gskinner, I was on that page but didn't even notice that bit at the bottom. Mines not blooming there so must have only just missed the last meeting!


I'd forgotten they even published them until you mentioned it. It's a shame yours missed the meeting. Cogs turn very slowly with GCCF sometimes, don't they!


----------



## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

They sure do!


----------



## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Time flies said:


> Thanks gskinner, I was on that page but didn't even notice that bit at the bottom. Mines not blooming there so must have only just missed the last meeting!


_I hope you hear from them soon, it took me ages to find mine on their website,  , and then I scrolled down and found it by accident !!!!!_


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I got a big packet back with mine with various booklets and so on in it. Hasn't yours turned up yet? Or has what one gets changed in the past couple of years?


----------

