# when to breed my bitch



## cav (May 23, 2008)

hi i have a healthy cavalier king charles i am going to breed from she is 3 years old.
put her on 13 day last time only once and had 1 lovely healthy puppy did i put her to early or should have done it a few more times.
i have missed a season in between.
she is a lovely dog and was a great mum last time.
she as been checked buy the vet and up to date with jabs.
can you advise me please.


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## poochimama (Apr 24, 2008)

you did fine last time 11th to 16 day usually about right hun i do 2 matings with the day apart personally


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

You can get a pre-mate test done at the vets either daily or every other day from day 9 or 10, and that will tell you when she is ovulating, so the best time to mate her. 2 matings, 2 days apart are usually a good idea. 

however, when you say she has been checked by your vet, has she also had all the relevant health tests done? Cavs are prone to heart problems, I believe, so if you havemn't had her heart checked, you risk breeding pups with serious health problems, which I am sure you wouldn't want. 

Hope this helps.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

hi yes i do no the breed well both my dog and stug dog get the hearts checked reguarly she as got no health problems but good of you to point that out because a lot of breeders dont get the hearts checked reguarly i just realy want to no if i am breeding at the wright time because she only had one lovely puppy?


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## poochimama (Apr 24, 2008)

id say u are its just one of those things hun u may get more pups next time its just one of those things we never can predict how many our dogs are gonna produce


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

thank you just wanted a bit of honest advice that i am doing it ok from people with more experience than me.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

hi please look at my puppy i had last time (pic)
had to keep him he was so cute.


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## poochimama (Apr 24, 2008)

awwww scrumptious!!!!


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> hi please look at my puppy i had last time (pic)
> had to keep him he was so cute.


Can I ask Why you are wishing to breed your Cav, as going by your above post, you only kept the last pup because he was cute. Fran


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

clueless said:


> Can I ask Why you are wishing to breed your Cav, as going by your above post, you only kept the last pup because he was cute. Fran


hi i am breeding my cav because she as got a great line , clear heart , wonderfull temprement the list goes on? 
got waiting list for puppys from last time i kept last puppy because he his so adorable i had 3 people that wanted him but decided to keep him myself.
please dont think i am breeding for cute pups i am using a good proven kc stud dog in perfect health and am hoping for super outstanding quality puppys .
thank you


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> hi i am breeding my cav because she as got a great line , clear heart , wonderfull temprement the list goes on?
> got waiting list for puppys from last time i kept last puppy because he his so adorable i had 3 people that wanted him but decided to keep him myself.
> please dont think i am breeding for cute pups i am using a good proven kc stud dog in perfect health and am hoping for super outstanding quality puppys .
> thank you


Thats good to hear Cavrooney. Sorry maybe I picked it up wrong and maybe my ideas of breeding are obviously totally different from a lot of people. My idea is if breeding jut for ssomeone else to get a pup, let them buy elsewhere as there are plenty for sale, rather than put my bitch through the mating/ breeding process Fran


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

clueless said:


> Thats good to hear Cavrooney. Sorry maybe I picked it up wrong and maybe my ideas of breeding are obviously totally different from a lot of people. My idea is if breeding jut for ssomeone else to get a pup, let them buy elsewhere as there are plenty for sale, rather than put my bitch through the mating/ breeding process Fran


But what if elsewhere leaves only puppy farmers and backyard breeders?


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

clueless said:


> Thats good to hear Cavrooney. Sorry maybe I picked it up wrong and maybe my ideas of breeding are obviously totally different from a lot of people. My idea is if breeding jut for ssomeone else to get a pup, let them buy elsewhere as there are plenty for sale, rather than put my bitch through the mating/ breeding process Fran


hi fran my dog was a wonderfull mother last time and also not breeding with any old dog have researched the breed very well and took a long time choosing suitable stud dog he has won lots of shows inc crufts and you can not just get that line from any old dog plus cavaliers suffer with heart problems so i have had all those checks done so fingers crossed these my pups will be super quality so please dont judge and tell me to tell these people to go and buy any old dog i think the world of all my dogs and would not just breed for fun ? there is enough unwanted animals out their?


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

jackson said:


> But what if elsewhere leaves only puppy farmers and backyard breeders?


hi jackson
glad someone talking sense


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

jackson said:


> But what if elsewhere leaves only puppy farmers and backyard breeders?


Jackson--Maybe you should read up on the sticky on this forum about/ describing BYB's.
Cavrooney-- I personally do not know you and do not wish to argue, I do know about Cavvies as I show/ bred them about 20years ago. I have not said that your bitch was not good enough, just wanted to know the reason you felt you had to take another litter from her thats all. Fran


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

clueless said:


> Jackson--Maybe you should read up on the sticky on this forum about/ describing BYB's.
> Cavrooney-- I personally do not know you and do not wish to argue, I do know about Cavvies as I show/ bred them about 20years ago. I have not said that your bitch was not good enough, just wanted to know the reason you felt you had to take another litter from her thats all. Fran


I've read it, perhaps you can point me in the direction of the part you refer to? Or cut and paste?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

No Probs Jackson
The Ethical Breeder 
I don't breed my dogs. Basically, I don't have the time, or the money, to do it properly, so I don't even try. Anyone with two dogs can have a litter of puppies, but there are so many details that need to be addressed. There are serious ethical issues. 

Dr. Sophia expressed one of the best set of rules that I've seen. If you can't, or won't, breed with the following rules in mind, then you shouldn't breed your dog. It's as simple as that. 

the following was posted to the AKITA-L list by Dr. Sophia Kaluzniacki, and is reprinted with her permission 

10 Rules of Ethical Breeding
The only reason to be breeding purebred dogs is to preserve the best qualities of the breed. Breeding to supply any market is not a justification. 

You need to do all of your breeding with the best interests of the breed in mind. Never your pocket book. 

For this you need to be a serious student of the breed and devote years of your life to it. No "in one day, out the other". 

As a beginner you need to engross yourself in the breed as much as possible and ideally find a suitable mentor. 

In order to be a serious breeder, you must show and compete. 

You need to keep track of all puppies you produce, whether pet or show, to know how your breeding program is working. 

All pet dogs need to go on a spay/neuter contract. 

All show puppies need to go on a contract that will not allow breeding unless the dog lives up to the quality intended and passes all health checks and certification necessary for that breed. If a prospective breeder does not want to do this, then I am sorry but they will have to mess with someone else's dogs not mine!!


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Cavrooney I found this as well, did not realise Cavvies had to be eye tested now, as I say been out the breed now for at least 15years.
CODE OF ETHICS Fran


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Hi Jackson I forgot this part, think it is a good point to be argued over. Fran

One of the most important things to consider is what impact will your bitch being bred from have on the breed. It may seem allowing her to have just one litter will not have much effect, but multiply this by many such litters and it has a huge impact.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

clueless said:


> No Probs Jackson
> The Ethical Breeder
> I don't breed my dogs. Basically, I don't have the time, or the money, to do it properly, so I don't even try. Anyone with two dogs can have a litter of puppies, but there are so many details that need to be addressed. There are serious ethical issues.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of that, and more, although have points to make about the bits highlighted.

I endorse all my pups papers, and state in their contracts they should not be bred from unless the endorsements are lifted by me when the criteria set by me is met. I do not wish them to go on a spay/neuter contract howevr, as I do not feel that routinely spaying or neutering is always best for the dog, and that entire animals need never breed unless it is planned, if they are kept properly. Plus, under UK law, any such spay/neuter contract would be invalid.

In an ideal world, I agree that people should not breed to supply a market. However, sadly, we do not live in that world. Our government think dog breeding is a legitamate business and as such do not discourage puppy farmers and the like. It is these people who contribute to the very sad rescue situation in this country and if they are the only source of puppies to the general public, god help us. That said, I do not think, even ethical breeders should breed dozens of litters just to supply the general public. I do think though, it is sometimes justified, under all the other circumstances outlined above, to breed a litter other than purely when we want another puppy ourselves.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

In an ideal world, I agree that people should not breed to supply a market. However, sadly, we do not live in that world. Our government think dog breeding is a legitamate business and as such do not discourage puppy farmers and the like. It is these people who contribute to the very sad rescue situation in this country and if they are the only source of puppies to the general public, god help us. 


So where do you think these puppy farmerw and the like get their foundation dogs from. I believe most come from irresponsible breeders, breeding pets. Do you show Jackson?


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

Just to add my opinion,
Cav Rooney nice to see you taking it seriously -If only More Breeders would do this.

I think ALL Bitches not to be shown or bred from should be spayed,those that are bred and not required to have anymore litters should also be spayed.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

As a none showing person can I ask - why cant dogs that have been spayed/neutered be shown?? I know if they had to be done for medical reasons you can continue to show them but what does spaying/neutering take away from them?? (and if anyone says a pair of nuts I'll kill 'em!!)


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

Jo P said:


> As a none showing person can I ask - why cant dogs that have been spayed/neutered be shown?? I know if they had to be done for medical reasons you can continue to show them but what does spaying/neutering take away from them?? (and if anyone says a pair of nuts I'll kill 'em!!)


Dogs and bitches can be shown if neutered,
The idea is you show then go onto breed,If you have you bitch spayed but show her,she gains title,so probably a good example of the breed - She can't add her quality to the breed though as she is spayed,so what is the point in showing and gaining her title when she can't produce anything to carry forward with.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

I think ALL Bitches not to be shown or bred from should be spayed,those that are bred and not required to have anymore litters should also be spayed.

Agree, endorsing does not work, how many do you see not registered up for sale??. What I do not understand is Why not enjoy your dog as a Pet, thats what you bought it for. Breeding just because thebitch was a good mother etc is not reasons to breed in my opinion Fran


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

The idea is you show then go onto breed,If you have you bitch spayed but show her,she gains title,so probably a good example of the breed - She can't add her quality to the breed though as she is spayed,so what is the point in showing and gaining her title when she can't produce anything to carry forward with.

Quality to the breed is a big part of breeding and showing, how does a pet owner know their dog/ bitch is of good quality to breed from apart from omeone down the road stating" oh thats a stunner!!!" Show people put out a lot of time and money into their dogs before breeding IMO Fran


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

clueless said:


> I think ALL Bitches not to be shown or bred from should be spayed,those that are bred and not required to have anymore litters should also be spayed.
> 
> Agree, endorsing does not work, how many do you see not registered up for sale??. What I do not understand is Why not enjoy your dog as a Pet, thats what you bought it for. Breeding just because thebitch was a good mother etc is not reasons to breed in my opinion Fran


Yes, I show, although my foundation bitch was predominantly worked. I have only shown her a handful of times, but have also had her assessed by a breed specialist judge. My two younger girls are both going to be shown (only 7 and 4 months presently) and although I may decide to never breed from them, I will only breed from them if they do well in the ring.

Why do you think ALL bitches not to be shown or bred from should be spayed? It is not the fact that they are not spayed that is the problem, it is the fact irresponsible idiots own them. I would personally only spay a bitch of mine if there were a specific reason to do it.

I bought my first Golden as a pet but that we also hoped would work. I didn't even like the breed, it was my husband who liked them. As he works away a lot, it was mainly me who trained her and I got more and more interested in the breed, so showing seemed a natural progression.

Edited to say that I also got interested in showing/breeding as 'my breeder' retired last year and wanted someone to carry on her lines.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Okay you stated you will only breed from your dog if they do well in the ring, so why do you agree that pet dogs should be bred from???. You are willing to spend your time and money promoting your dogs. 
As for spaying, it is a personal choice with me as I have added IMO to my post. I sold a lovely PET quality pup endorsed, to what I believed was a lovely couple years ago. Discovered 4 years later, person thought her bitch was lovely so decided to take a litter!!! Spaying states a lot to me Fran


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

jackson said:


> Yes, I show, although my foundation bitch was predominantly worked. I have only shown her a handful of times, but have also had her assessed by a breed specialist judge. My two younger girls are both going to be shown (only 7 and 4 months presently) and although I may decide to never breed from them, I will only breed from them if they do well in the ring.
> 
> Why do you think ALL bitches not to be shown or bred from should be spayed? It is not the fact that they are not spayed that is the problem, it is the fact irresponsible idiots own them. I would personally only spay a bitch of mine if there were a specific reason to do it.
> 
> ...


My bitch was spayed as an emergency 6 weeks ago,
She developed Pyometra - Time is of the essence with this as it will and does KILL bitches.
I spotted the signs and came on here and another forum for advice, and for them to confirm my suspicions.
My girl was fine on Friday morning,by saturday morning she was very very poorly.The vet said it was a very close call another 24 hours and she would have been dead.
The vet examined her and said straight away she suspected Pyometra,she was put straight on an IV Drip,had bloods and a scan done which confirmed it was Pyo,so she went straight into surgery.It was a complicated op,as it was a massive Pyo - I thank my lucky stars each and every day,that she is still here and both us and our vet acted quickly.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

clueless said:


> Okay you stated you will only breed from your dog if they do well in the ring, so why do you agree that pet dogs should be bred from???. You are willing to spend your time and money promoting your dogs.
> As for spaying, it is a personal choice with me as I have added IMO to my post. I sold a lovely PET quality pup endorsed, to what I believed was a lovely couple years ago. Discovered 4 years later, person thought her bitch was lovely so decided to take a litter!!! Spaying states a lot to me Fran


I don't think I have ever said I think pet dogs should be bred from? There is a difference betwen breeding from pet dogs and breeding show quality dogs that are probably destined for the pet market. However, I do believe there is a difference between a pet dog and a pet quality dog.

I also think my stance on things is possibly slightly different as I have a sought after (therefore exploited!) breed that make excellent family pets.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Sorry to here Sallyanne, another good reason for spaying Fran


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> My bitch was spayed as an emergency 6 weeks ago,
> She developed Pyometra - Time is of the essence with this as it will and does KILL bitches.
> I spotted the signs and came on here and another forum for advice, and for them to confirm my suspicions.
> My girl was fine on Friday morning,by saturday morning she was very very poorly.The vet said it was a very close call another 24 hours and she would have been dead.
> The vet examined her and said straight away she suspected Pyometra,she was put straight on an IV Drip,had bloods and a scan done which confirmed it was Pyo,so she went straight into surgery.It was a complicated op,as it was a massive Pyo - I thank my lucky stars each and every day,that she is still here and both us and our vet acted quickly.


As it happens, spayed bitches can also get pyo, called 'stump pyo'. It is very rare, but IMO even more deadly as people, including vets aren't expecting it. Even lots of experienced and knowledgable dog owners haven't heard of it.

I am VERY paranoid about pyo, and constantly on the look out for it. The only bitches I have ever known to get it have been overfed, under exercised pet bitches. I have never seen it in any of my friends very lean and fit working dogs. I discussed it with my vet (and several others) and they felt there may well be a lower instance in the second group of bitches I describe. Of course, that doesn't mean they'll never get it, which is why I am paranoid! 

I'm very sorry about your bitch, and glad she is OK.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

I do believe there is a difference between a pet dog and a pet quality dog.

So what is the difference if the owner of the pet dog versus pet quality dog does not spend the time promoting their breed. IMO None it should not be bred jut because etc, etc etc... excuses. IMO Bought as a pet, love/ enjoy as a pet Fran


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## Rinnie69 (May 8, 2008)

I agree with most of what has been said, however i do not show my dogs currently , i plan to whan i get my next Saint.
Indi is a proven stud , he has had all the necessary tests for his breed, I did a lot of talking to the owners of the dogs in his lines before i put him out at Stud. so you can providing you do your homework , breed from your dog/bitch .
I know there are many Pet breeders in Saints, as i imagine there are in other breeds, so i don't agree that you Have to show your dog, 
for me it is a natural progression, i want a girl i can show and hopefully breed from once all testing is done and she is of the right age, A shown dog is also not a guarentee of a good example of their breed. I have friends that are alway talking about faults in a lot of dogs shown . jmo


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Yes Stump Pyo can occur but a you said very rare and less significant risk that Pyo Fran


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Rinnie69 said:


> I agree with most of what has been said, however i do not show my dogs currently , i plan to whan i get my next Saint.
> Indi is a proven stud , he has had all the necessary tests for his breed, I did a lot of talking to the owners of the dogs in his lines before i put him out at Stud. so you can providing you do your homework , breed from your dog/bitch .
> I know there are many Pet breeders in Saints, as i imagine there are in other breeds, so i don't agree that you Have to show your dog,
> for me it is a natural progression, i want a girl i can show and hopefully breed from once all testing is done and she is of the right age, A shown dog is also not a guarentee of a good example of their breed. I have friends that are alway talking about faults in a lot of dogs shown . jmo


So why did you not show him if you plan to show your next one? Would you let these people in your breed with pet aints use your dog? Fran


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

jackson said:


> As it happens, spayed bitches can also get pyo, called 'stump pyo'. It is very rare, but IMO even more deadly as people, including vets aren't expecting it. Even lots of experienced and knowledgable dog owners haven't heard of it.
> 
> I am VERY paranoid about pyo, and constantly on the look out for it. The only bitches I have ever known to get it have been overfed, under exercised pet bitches. I have never seen it in any of my friends very lean and fit working dogs. I discussed it with my vet (and several others) and they felt there may well be a lower instance in the second group of bitches I describe. Of course, that doesn't mean they'll never get it, which is why I am paranoid!
> 
> I'm very sorry about your bitch, and glad she is OK.


I have known quite a few bitches develop Pyo,both agility and show dogs have developed it.
I can assure you my bitch was not overfed or under exercised,She was a show dog,so needed to be in tiptop condition and she was supposed to have been our foundation bitch.
All unspayed bitches are at risk from Pyometra,whether or not they are pets, doing agilty or show dogs.
Age doesn't come into either,it's not as common in younger bitches but with every season a bitch has the risk is greater.

My bitch is fine now and has made a full recovery.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Agree Sallyanne Does not only hit overfed/ under exercised dogs. Anyway I have to go to Ringcraft, loved the debate, sorry if I have caused havoc, especially as I am new here, but breeding for no other reason than to keep a pup, have good homes ready for any pups surplus and promote and better the breed gets me angry Fran


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> hi fran my dog was a wonderfull mother last time and also not breeding with any old dog have researched the breed very well and took a long time choosing suitable stud dog he has won lots of shows inc crufts and you can not just get that line from any old dog plus cavaliers suffer with heart problems so i have had all those checks done so fingers crossed these my pups will be super quality so please dont judge and tell me to tell these people to go and buy any old dog i think the world of all my dogs and would not just breed for fun ? there is enough unwanted animals out their?


can you please respond clueless


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I have known quite a few bitches develop Pyo,both agility and show dogs have developed it.
> I can assure you my bitch was not overfed or under exercised,She was a show dog,so needed to be in tiptop condition and she was supposed to have been our foundation bitch.
> All unspayed bitches are at risk from Pyometra,whether or not they are pets, doing agilty or show dogs.
> Age doesn't come into either,it's not as common in younger bitches but with every season a bitch has the risk is greater.
> ...


Sorry, I wasn't implying for one second that your bitch was overfed or under- exercised. oops! That wasn't how it was meant to come across at all! What I was saying that I have noticed myself that the instances I have known of pyo seem to be less in the working dogs I know, and several vets agreed with me that they see less instances in those bitches as well, so being the right weight and very fit may go some way to help reduce the risk. No evidence, just a theory, but I am still aware any bitch can get it. ALL bitches, spayed or not.

Glad she is OK.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> can you please respond clueless


Already responded, but okay. Does the Cavalier now need eye tests done??? Maybe the stud dog is a good example of your breed but does it compliment your bitch??? 
Example -- In my breed there is a lovely Champion who is holding 27tickets( think maybe more now) Lovely example of the breed etc.. But unfortunately he would not do anything to better my breeding. Fran


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

The only girls I have ever known or heard of have had a pyo prior to being speyed - my own staffy girl had it - she was fit as a fiddle - infact I have a few friends whos girls got a pyo and had to be speyed - I dont know any who got stump pyo - I know it exsists - but knowbody I know has ever had it happen...


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## Guest (May 28, 2008)

jackson said:


> Sorry, I wasn't implying for one second that your bitch was overfed or under- exercised. oops! That wasn't how it was meant to come across at all! What I was saying that I have noticed myself that the instances I have known of pyo seem to be less in the working dogs I know, and several vets agreed with me that they see less instances in those bitches as well, so being the right weight and very fit may go some way to help reduce the risk. No evidence, just a theory, but I am still aware any bitch can get it. ALL bitches, spayed or not.
> 
> Glad she is OK.


That's fine I didn't read it that way but just wanted to add she wasn't overfed or under exercised 
She was 2 months off her second birthday so very young,it was a very worrying time.
But she is now fully recovered and has a new lease of life


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## Rinnie69 (May 8, 2008)

clueless said:


> So why did you not show him if you plan to show your next one? Would you let these people in your breed with pet aints use your dog? Fran


I did show him Fran, only lightly , we were just getting started , but unfortunatly my health became a problem and it all had to stop, I feel now he is to settled and old to start up again.

Yes i would put him to a Pet breeders bitch , as i know many breeders do, providing the lines and health of the dog/bitch is good . Of course i would love to see one of Indi's progeny in the ring , But i feel you can better the breed by good breeding and taking care of the health of your dogs,Isn't showing meant to be a fun side to it all? A chance to show off your dog should you wish to ?

Its good you have such passion for your breed and have set yourself standards, it doesn't mean though that anyone elses opinions or standards are any less beter than your own.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Just to add my opinion,
> Cav Rooney nice to see you taking it seriously -If only More Breeders would do this.
> 
> I think ALL Bitches not to be shown or bred from should be spayed,those that are bred and not required to have anymore litters should also be spayed.


hi sallyanne you make sense and yes i am taking it seriousley and i agree with you about spaying a bitch.
cavrooney


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Rinnie69 said:


> I did show him Fran, only lightly , we were just getting started , but unfortunatly my health became a problem and it all had to stop, I feel now he is to settled and old to start up again.
> 
> Yes i would put him to a Pet breeders bitch , as i know many breeders do, providing the lines and health of the dog/bitch is good . Of course i would love to see one of Indi's progeny in the ring , But i feel you can better the breed by good breeding and taking care of the health of your dogs,Isn't showing meant to be a fun side to it all? A chance to show off your dog should you wish to ?
> 
> ...


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> hi sallyanne you make sense and yes i am taking it seriousley and i agree with you about spaying a bitch.
> cavrooney


Hi Cavrooney I will start by saying I am by no means picking on you BUT you have already had a litter from your bitch, stated you heart tested, no other tests, also you mentioned about spaying your bitch later on in the year after another litter as you have her son there now and do not want her caught by him, she can be caught now by him!!!
As I said sorry to be posting to you about breeding, I could have replied to a few people's posts that are breeding "Just Because.....blah, blah, rather than agree with other posters saying cute pups etc this does not educate or help the future of some breeds. 
If I get a warning or Banned, so be it but a forum is for opinions/ debates etc..  Fran


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

clueless said:


> Hi Cavrooney I will start by saying I am by no means picking on you BUT you have already had a litter from your bitch, stated you heart tested, no other tests, also you mentioned about spaying your bitch later on in the year after another litter as you have her son there now and do not want her caught by him, she can be caught now by him!!!
> As I said sorry to be posting to you about breeding, I could have replied to a few people's posts that are breeding "Just Because.....blah, blah, rather than agree with other posters saying cute pups etc this does not educate or help the future of some breeds.
> If I get a warning or Banned, so be it but a forum is for opinions/ debates etc..  Fran


hi fran she and the stud dog have had all checks done not just hearts she even goes on a coarse of antibiotics when in season to protect her .she and her son are seperated when she comes into season this time i no accidents happen.i have thought hard about her next litter and will go ahead no matter what you say and if she gets caught i will be pleased and if she as a girl will keep it and the rest would go loving homes(already got people waiting) and then will have her spayed.i do understand your point and agree with you on most of it but i realy think you have got me wrong i have got homes waiting for pups they will be well loved and they will get a healthy puppy i would not let just anyone have a dog. anyway thanks for advice cavrooney


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

You never mentioned any other tests before, but as you said and as I have already stated before I do not know you personally and am not picking on you, although after poting back and forth with you I did pick up on certain points. You are now going to keep a girl, but previously as in only a few days ago you wished you had more room to keep another one ???? Now I am not advising you on anything and hopefully no pressure has been put on you to change your postings to now keeping one as that is no reason to do it Fran
ps Good Luck with your future litter, see no badness intended


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Yes Cavrooney saw Labradoodle one, shih tzu one, poodle one etc... on here so making no comments as replies to posts from most members are oohing and aahing over cute puppy pics etc but by not questioning why!!! are advocating bad breeding in my eyes Maybe not oohing and aahing when they are giving advice to future pup buyers with poor, ill puppy they bought from same cute litter IMO Fran


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

clueless said:


> Yes Cavrooney saw Labradoodle one, shih tzu one, poodle one etc... on here so making no comments as replies to posts from most members are oohing and aahing over cute puppy pics etc but by not questioning why!!! are advocating bad breeding in my eyes Maybe not oohing and aahing when they are giving advice to future pup buyers with poor, ill puppy they bought from same cute litter IMO Fran


fran why dont you post a thread on this topic if you feel so strongly also you might get your point across? might be worth a try you got nothing to lose?
cavrooney


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Cavrooney I think I have said enough on the subject, also feel I would not get true responses. Some posts tend to agree with some pet owners breeding and others state better showing them and see if good standard, so slightly confused on here. Will now let the subject drop as I am new member and feel I jumped in, maybe better if I had waited till I had a lot of posts behind me. As said not trying to cause trouble Fran


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

so what day do you take your bitch to the stud dog?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> so what day do you take your bitch to the stud dog?


Hello Cavrooney In my breed the Cresties would stand from day 1 I usually do first mating on 11th day then 13th. Those premate test thingy ma bobs are suppossed to be good, someone I know swears by them. Matetell think the name is although someone may come on with right name. Another friend uses a child microscope from Toys r Us cost £10, they look at cell shape changes


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

clueless said:


> Hello Cavrooney In my breed the Cresties would stand from day 1 I usually do first mating on 11th day then 13th. Those premate test thingy ma bobs are suppossed to be good, someone I know swears by them. Matetell think the name is although someone may come on with right name. Another friend uses a child microscope from Toys r Us cost £10, they look at cell shape changes


the premate test are they from the vets ?
all my friends keep saying just let nature do it but as i go to the stud dog it can be a pain has he far away and i never would leave my bitch with someone as you never no hear such bad stories all the time ?


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## englishrose943 (Feb 7, 2008)

Hi honey, i usually breed my girls between day 11 and 13, make sure your girl has been wormed and upto date with all vaccinations and is in good health. I wish you every success in what you are doing. You sound a very sensible person and you seem like you know what you are doing so go for it. Best of luck any questions please ask.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> the premate test are they from the vets ?
> all my friends keep saying just let nature do it but as i go to the stud dog it can be a pain has he far away and i never would leave my bitch with someone as you never no hear such bad stories all the time ?


Yes you can get bloods taken at vets. I have never done it, so maybe someone that has will be able to tell you the ins and outs about it.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

I have had premate's done. 

You start at about day 10. Blood is taken for the test. Then repeat the test daily or every other day until your bitch has ovulated, then take her to stud. It can be expensive, my vet charged me £50 a test and we had three done, as the vets have to buy a pack of ten tests and the shelf life isn't that long.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Cavrooney Here is link on the Matetel Testing Kit Matetel canine ovulation tester


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

clueless said:


> Cavrooney Here is link on the Matetel Testing Kit Matetel canine ovulation tester


thank you i have had a look 
please tel me what you think ?
do you think this way best or take her vets and have bloods done as she goes the vets to get her antibiltics as me and stud both go on a coarse just to protect both dogs.
i think i timed her to early or to late last time as she only just got caught.
thanks for taking your time to look into this for me


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> thank you i have had a look
> please tel me what you think ?
> do you think this way best or take her vets and have bloods done as she goes the vets to get her antibiltics as me and stud both go on a coarse just to protect both dogs.
> i think i timed her to early or to late last time as she only just got caught.
> thanks for taking your time to look into this for me


No Probs Have only tried the Matetel once as got a loan of one from a friend who swears by it, and she has never had a mismate yet. I think they are okay if you know and understand what you are looking at eg shape changes. I think the blood tests would definately be more accurate.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

clueless said:


> No Probs Have only tried the Matetel once as got a loan of one from a friend who swears by it, and she has never had a mismate yet. I think they are okay if you know and understand what you are looking at eg shape changes. I think the blood tests would definately be more accurate.


that one ive just looked at says it comes with instructions and pics so should not be to hard to follow.
A breeder i no also uses something like this {dont no the make} as she says also very good as one of her dogs gets caught at the end of season she says vets good but expensive ? just wanted get a few peoples opions but only you or jackson seem to answer questions lately ?
i think may need start a new thread on this get people interested again as every one gone all quiet
can i get this item from pet stores or are they only available as toys r us no good as i will defo need instructions(blonde hair does it) ?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> that one ive just looked at says it comes with instructions and pics so should not be to hard to follow.
> A breeder i no also uses something like this {dont no the make} as she says also very good as one of her dogs gets caught at the end of season she says vets good but expensive ? just wanted get a few peoples opions but only you or jackson seem to answer questions lately ?
> i think may need start a new thread on this get people interested again as every one gone all quiet
> can i get this item from pet stores or are they only available as toys r us no good as i will defo need instructions(blonde hair does it) ?


Think my friend got it straight from Matetel, but will text her and find out for you. Hey I have Blonde moments and I am Brunette


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Cavrooney Friend got it straight from Matetel siteGood Luck


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

Thanks Again For All Your Help


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