# Caucasian Shepherd Dog



## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

Are these similar to the dog that Zaros has?

I just found out that someone at work breeds them  and wondered if they were a similar type of dog to a sarpl....sarpl-something?!
Naomi


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## Lil Doglets (Oct 17, 2011)

Sarplaninac  can't say i know anything about either breeds though tbh  only that they look big enough you could ride them and get lost in a sea of fur


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

The Caucasian Ovcharka is a distant relative of the Sarplaninac and because of the many similiárities in appearance between the two (colouring and build namely) it's quite easy to make the mistake of identifying them wrongly.

The Caucasian just like the Sarplaninac rightly falls into the category of 'Ovcharka'. An old Russian work meaning 'Guardian of the flock'

The Caucasian Ovcharka.









The Ovcharka Sarplaninac. (Oscar)


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## Mici (Nov 13, 2011)

They are similar, but caucasians tend to be more aloof than sarplaninacs (at least in my experience) and they are bigger and more aggressive or rather they switch to being agressive a little earlier than sars but you don't wan't to mess with neither of them  ...Bit they are gentle as lambs with their family...

I just find it kind of funny that there are bans on pits in UK while they allow breeds that are naturally more aggressive to people than pits . If somone wanted than this dog has the possibility of being far far far more dangerous than any pit. Than again I am against DDA anyway...

I own sarplaninac and I used to own Karst shepherd (they used to be considered the same breed) and I love those dogs because of their loyalty and protectiveness and because they are ready to die for you and when they bite they mean it. They are a hard work sometimes but sars, karst shepherds and caucasian owtcharkas are the only breeds for me  Gentle as lambs, can take them anywhere, even on the bus. But they need to be socialized and taught to obey which doesn't make them suitable for your average owner...I hope your friend finds responsible homes for them all or another breed might find itself on the dda list...


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## Mici (Nov 13, 2011)

just out of curiosity Zaros - are you from the Balkans? 
Not many on this forum seem to own this breed.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Mici said:


> They are similar, but caucasians tend to be more aloof than sarplaninacs (at least in my experience) and they are bigger and more aggressive or rather they switch to being agressive a little earlier than sars but you don't wan't to mess with neither of them  ...Bit they are gentle as lambs with their family...
> 
> I just find it kind of funny that there are bans on pits in UK while they allow breeds that are naturally more aggressive to people than pits . If somone wanted than this dog has the possibility of being far far far more dangerous than any pit. Than again I am against DDA anyway...
> 
> I own sarplaninac and I used to own Karst shepherd (they used to be considered the same breed) and I love those dogs because of their loyalty and protectiveness and because they are ready to die for you and when they bite they mean it. They are a hard work sometimes but sars, karst shepherds and caucasian owtcharkas are the only breeds for me  Gentle as lambs, can take them anywhere, even on the bus. But they need to be socialized and taught to obey which doesn't make them suitable for your average owner...I hope your friend finds responsible homes for them all or another breed might find itself on the dda list...


Please don't put ideas into the empty heads of the powers that be. If they knew the first thing about dogs, they would have ALL livestock guardians on the dangerous dogs list.

Zaros would know more about livestock guardians that me, but they are certainly among the group and not a suitable pet for everybody. You need lots of space, lots of experience and preferably no visitors that the dog hasn't already met.

All livestock guardians think of you as their flock and their responsibility to guard at all costs. They treat all visitors as suspicious, and possibly even think of them as predators. You have to be very, very careful.

I hope your friend who breeds them makes quite sure his puppies go to people who know what they are doing.

A poster on here earlier in the year was asking about her Estrela Mountain Dog, because every time her children had friends round, they had to take the dog to her mothers. A case of not researching the breed before getting it. The Estrela is also a livestock guardian.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Mici said:


> They are similar, but caucasians tend to be more aloof than sarplaninacs *(at least in my experience) *and they are bigger and more aggressive or rather they switch to being agressive a little earlier than sars but you don't wan't to mess with neither of them  ...Bit they are gentle as lambs with their family...
> 
> I own sarplaninac and I used to own Karst shepherd (they used to be considered the same breed) and I love those dogs because of their loyalty and protectiveness and because they are ready to die for you and when they bite they mean it. They are a hard work sometimes but sars, karst shepherds and caucasian owtcharkas are the only breeds for me  Gentle as lambs, can take them anywhere, even on the bus. But *they need to be socialized* which doesn't make them suitable for your average owner.


First of all let me just say Hi and welcome to the Forum.

So tell me fellow Sarplaninac owner, when you take your Dog on the Bus is it easy for you to get a seat?  

I noticed when you compared the Sar' with the Caucasian you added (at least in my experience) A statement which prompts me to ask what exactly are your experiences of the two? Would you like to post a few photos of your present and past Dog, the Karst or, as we familiarly know it the Kraski.

Aloof is a kind word some attach to the Caucasian breed in the attempt to excuse it's laziness. In both trials (Character tests) and the natural working environment the Sar' proved quicker to respond to a situation than the C/O yet neither animal appeared to be aggressive or show aggression.

Although we are aware that some owners/breeders prefer and promote aggressiveness in their dogs this is not a natural trait as both animals were initially bred for the purpose of Livestock Guardian as well as community sentinel. 
It would, therefore, be considered sheer lunacy to have a large formidable looking Dog such as the Sar' or Caucasian wander the outskirts/fringes of a remote village especially if that Dog was known to be openly aggressive towards strangers.
Perhaps you meant to say defensive?

Both breeds in our experience are defensive. If a complete stranger should wander onto/into their territory they immediately sound the alert and then warn the trespasser not to proceed. Only a fool would ignore a Dog of such proportions.

Here in Finland there are many who utilise the Sar' and the Caucasian for its original purpose of livestock guardian and all Dogs obviously have free range. To date we know of no recorded incident of an attack made on a human by either breed.

Socialisation for Zara and Oscar (Pets only) is a strict exercise we repeat once every week and such an exercise will continue throughout the remainder of their days. The remainder of the week they are simply just Dogs we walk them just like any other Dog and they wander off leash just like any other Dog.

However and briefly, despite their sociability the two are like the proverbial Chalk and Cheese. 
Zara, small for her breed, tends to harbour a few explicit contents and can be very feisty when she decides to allow them to surface. She takes time to warm to people. 
Whereas Oscar by her comparison, big for his breed, is quite the laid back character. He's very receptive to the majority and breaks most of the common traits Sars' are apparently notorious for.

That's my boy! :thumbup1:


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm new to this breed, after an awful lot of reasearch we decided on the Caucasian Ovcharka after loosing our old fluffy guard dog from old age, I bought a pup who is now almost 4 months old, we bought him to guard the farm, he will have free rein about the place when he's old enough the same as our other dogs. He is already pretty huge, haven't weighed him recently but at 12 weeks he was 15kg, I'd say he's over 25kg now!!
Temperament wise he's very laid back, has met all the animals on the farm and any friends we want him to get used to, but his guarding instincts are starting to appear - he sits all night, and most of his naps during the day too, at the top of the stairs watching out over the yard - if anything moves he starts growling then barking when he's sure it is something to woof at!! I'd say they are definitly not a novice breed, I've had a lot of large breeds and would never have bought one without looking into it first as they are such big powerful dogs, so training from young is a must! He's very smart though, certainly the smartest pup I've ever had, he got most of the basic commands within the first week, like sit, stay, down, leave etc, was house trained within 3 weeks, our JRT is in a crate at night otherwise she raids the cat poop tray, but he worked out very quickly how to let her out - so we tie it shut now!!!!
I think if used for what they were bred for then they are great - I wouldn't want one in a flat though!! - it's bad enough when he comes in absolutley covered in mud after playing in the field and then wanders in and whan no-one's looking flops out on the setee - I've washed the covers twice in the last week!, I had a lovely dog shaped print on my bed too the other day!!!
Here is Bear:


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Both are gorgeous and at first I thought that's what Zaros babies where....the only difference is that Zaros is going to send their dogs to me for the winter when it snows so I will get t meet real life sar ...not much chance of meeting an C O .....I have their beds ready it's going to snow at the weekend


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

AlexArt said:


> I'm new to this breed, after an awful lot of reasearch we decided on the Caucasian Ovcharka after loosing our old fluffy guard dog from old age, I bought a pup who is now almost 4 months old, we bought him to guard the farm, he will have free rein about the place when he's old enough the same as our other dogs. He is already pretty huge, haven't weighed him recently but at 12 weeks he was 15kg, I'd say he's over 25kg now!!
> Temperament wise he's very laid back, has met all the animals on the farm and any friends we want him to get used to, but his guarding instincts are starting to appear - he sits all night, and most of his naps during the day too, at the top of the stairs watching out over the yard - if anything moves he starts growling then barking when he's sure it is something to woof at!! I'd say they are definitly not a novice breed, I've had a lot of large breeds and would never have bought one without looking into it first as they are such big powerful dogs, so training from young is a must! He's very smart though, certainly the smartest pup I've ever had, he got most of the basic commands within the first week, like sit, stay, down, leave etc, was house trained within 3 weeks, our JRT is in a crate at night otherwise she raids the cat poop tray, but he worked out very quickly how to let her out - so we tie it shut now!!!!
> I think if used for what they were bred for then they are great - I wouldn't want one in a flat though!! - it's bad enough when he comes in absolutley covered in mud after playing in the field and then wanders in and whan no-one's looking flops out on the setee - I've washed the covers twice in the last week!, I had a lovely dog shaped print on my bed too the other day!!!
> Here is Bear:


He is gorgeous! As you say, if you have a farm to guard then it is a great dog to have like any of the livestock guardians, but if you don't have that sort of space, you are going to have a nightmare on your hands.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I hope your friend who breeds them makes quite sure his puppies go to people who know what they are doing.


Definitely not my friend... just someone that I overheard talking about it yesterday - and it immediately set alarm bells ringing hence me wanting to check I'd got the type of dog I was imagining right!!!

Although they are importing one from Moscow soon, so I can only hope that they know what they are doing...I'm pretty sure they're breeding them because they're the biggest, hardest dogs they could find and they're seeing the £ signs though...but it's not a person I know really or know anything about... just worried me...

I might see if I can ask around and find out some more...

Naomi


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## Mici (Nov 13, 2011)

I will put a photo of both of them - just have to upload it on photobucket first 

Well I mostly have experience with karst shepherds and sars but have had some experience with working caucasian shepherds - I mean have seen them at work and have I know some CO owners and their dogs. I have never actually owned a CO, just sar and karst shepherd but from what I have seen CO tend to be a bit sharper, I didn't mean they were outright aggressive, just can be if not properly handled...

Firstly I should admit that I am biased towards sars and karsts but they seem to be more attached to the owners than COs...And even from the history point - caucasians lived in more isolated regions than sars and fought bigger animals in comparison (just look at the difference between balkan and caucasian wolves and you will know what I mean). But both are great dogs if you ask me 

Well I must admit that when I go to town or dog park with my dog some people are vary of mine because sars tend to have a reputation here...But I never had problems with my dogs - they wouldn't just bite someone out of the blue but we do similar what you do - we make sure they are walked in areas with other dogs and people on a regular basis. Actually I never had any probs with my dogs being on a bus - when we still had both (I only have one now and one small dog) they went on the bus together. They just lay down by our seat and are quiet. Tho perhaps I must explain that buses in my country are never crowded like they are in UK.... 

Perhaps I sounded like I want to have aggressive dogs in my previous post which is not true at all. I love my dogs and they are allowed inside, we take them with us on holidays etc. But they are also guard dogs and are not super friendly to everyone they meet. 
It just bugs me when a lot of people just see big fluffy bears in these kinds of dogs and thean they get them and say they are too stupid to learn, too aggressive...I mean there are very nice soft big fluffy dos out there like news, leonbergers, bernese mountainn dogs, st.bernards...why go for an independent, naturally more aggressive breed if you live in a city...Real flock guardins, true to their breed, will never be able to become therapy dogs or rather they shouldn't be forced to become that...


To the OP - I am sorry I turned this into debate abour sars and CO  I hope those dogs do go to appropriate homes but from what you said it sounds they just want to make a quick buck...Tho it is true that show dogs (big, beary..) tend to have softer temperament compared to working types so at least this is good


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

Ovcharka's are a group of dogs that really intrest me, so its good to read peoples experiance. I don't have the room for a dog like this now, but one day I would like to look in to getting one.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

I hope to own one sometime in my life! But now having Sammy and Lucky its gonna be impossible! This house is now officially FULL! 

One day if we move to a bigger more spacious property then i will definitely add a Rottie, GSD and a Ovcharka/Sars to the pack. 

But before that im gonna need to add a wife and kids to the pack hehe.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

5rivers79 said:


> I hope to own one sometime in my life! But now having Sammy and Lucky its gonna be impossible! *This house is now officially FULL! *
> 
> One day if we move to a bigger more spacious property then i will definitely add a Rottie, GSD and a Ovcharka/Sars to the pack.
> 
> But before that im gonna need to add a wife and kids to the pack hehe.


Until you find another stray dog!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

My friend has one, he's massive & totally stunning:001_wub:


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

AlexArt said:


> I'm new to this breed, after an awful lot of reasearch we decided on the Caucasian Ovcharka after loosing our old fluffy guard dog from old age, I bought a pup who is now almost 4 months old, we bought him to guard the farm, he will have free rein about the place when he's old enough the same as our other dogs. He is already pretty huge, haven't weighed him recently but at 12 weeks he was 15kg, I'd say he's over 25kg now!!
> Temperament wise he's very laid back, has met all the animals on the farm and any friends we want him to get used to, but his guarding instincts are starting to appear - he sits all night, and most of his naps during the day too, at the top of the stairs watching out over the yard - if anything moves he starts growling then barking when he's sure it is something to woof at!! I'd say they are definitly not a novice breed, I've had a lot of large breeds and would never have bought one without looking into it first as they are such big powerful dogs, so training from young is a must! He's very smart though, certainly the smartest pup I've ever had, he got most of the basic commands within the first week, like sit, stay, down, leave etc, was house trained within 3 weeks, our JRT is in a crate at night otherwise she raids the cat poop tray, but he worked out very quickly how to let her out - so we tie it shut now!!!!
> I think if used for what they were bred for then they are great


Hi. Alex. It's nice to know someone actually does homework before taking responsibility for this particular breed. 
Although in the near and coming future I'm sure you'll find that there will be several ocassions he does something you just weren't expecting and never read, because someone somewhere omitted to write it down. 
He's only a baby yet so he probably has many hidden surprises he can't wait to hatch. 

Where in the world are you living Alex?
I don't intend to pay you a visit it's just a fairly routine question because farming folks who opt for the Sar' or Caucasian usually do so because they have problems with BIG predators or at least are aware of Big predator activity in and around the area.

Incidentally Alex, do you know why they have that crown of punk hair and those over exaggerated ear muffs?

They're to hide the Devil's horns! 



missnaomi said:


> Definitely not my friend... just someone that I overheard talking about it yesterday - and it immediately set alarm bells ringing hence me wanting to check I'd got the type of dog I was imagining right!!!
> 
> Although they are importing one from Moscow soon, so I can only hope that they know what they are doing...I'm pretty sure they're breeding them because they're the biggest, hardest dogs they could find and they're seeing the £ signs though...but it's not a person I know really or know anything about... just worried me...
> Naomi


No comment! 
Suffice to say I wouldn't buy a used Car with a 50 year warranty from a Russian even if he sweetened the deal by throwing in an Kalashnikov complete with a lifetime's supply of ammunition, in the attempt to appeal to the dormant terrorist in me, let alone a Dog.



Mici said:


> I will put a photo of both of them - just have to upload it on photobucket first
> 
> *Well I mostly have experience with karst shepherds and sars but have had some experience* with working caucasian shepherds - I mean have seen them at work and have I know some CO owners and their dogs. I have never actually owned a CO, just sar and karst shepherd but from what I have seen CO tend to be a bit sharper, I didn't mean they were outright aggressive, just can be if not properly handled...
> 
> ...


Karst/Kraski/Sarplaninac. They're all virtually the same animal but are still unique in themselves. They simply have different backgrounds (Historical, Geographical and Political) and were all originally bred by nomadic herdsmen.

I'm intrigued, would you like to enlarge on the reputation of the Sar' in your area? 
Experience and research has brought me to understand that the behaviour of the animal varies from country to country simply because of what it's owners/breeders expect of the animal or purposely nurture in it.

Can I just repeat once again that aggression in these Dogs is not natural even though it's not unheard of because aggression tops the list of requirements for many which is sad and tragic when you consider that these animals were once famous for being known as 'Gentle Giants' and are still respected and recognised by some as being so.

Oscar is exactly that and as far as I'm concerned he represents the Sar' as it should be represented.

Try to track down a book entitled 'From the roof of the world to the top of the balkans; Sarplaninac' Written and compiled by Obrad B Skipic. He's a Serb by the way.
The book was never in general publication but there are a number of copies scattered around E/Europe. 
Lost somewhere in his predominantly political manifesto is an admission to being aware of corrupting the Sarplaninac breed but the text translated into english is so poor we had great difficulty understanding what actually took place.:001_huh:


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

I think the last few weeks I realised how differently other people view dogs to me...ours are family members. I have them because I love them and we love to spend time with them...listening to this guy talk about the CSD's, they were more like a fancy car than a family member - valuable and important to treat well and keep safe, but not the same emotions involved. With this new dog, he'll own 5 dogs that aren't safe to walk - but that you can breed and sell for a lot... and that need very carefully selected owners...
Naomi


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

Zaros - I'm in Cumbria in the north of england so no wolves or big predators technically, just very cold wet and windy!! But we do get lampers - we've lost cats to them and we have to get our pet deer in every night because of them so something that would eat a lurcher for tea was needed, they haven't come on our land so far but with horses/foals/sheep and stuff I don't want them to! Also my father is a delusional psycopath and doesn't like dogs, the trouble is our adult dogs won't guard against him as they know him, so we wanted a dog that didn't know him and would mean business and at least warn us he's about - he has been stalking round the farm at really odd times of night and sneaking about in barns at 2am which is really creepy, we even had to take it in turns to stay up all night for weeks incase he broke into the house as his behavior was so weird - the police won't do anything unless he shoots us!, we don't even know where he's living - so we needed to have as much protection as possible - can't wait to move!!!

I'm sure Bear will throw some un-expected things up in the future like any dog, we did meet a few before we made our minds up, one was a half brother to ours and is so laid back, especially with their children, but come on their property at night or without permission and the owners there he's a very different dog and one I would not want to cross!!!!


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

missnaomi said:


> I think the last few weeks I realised how differently other people view dogs to me...ours are family members. I have them because I love them and we love to spend time with them...*listening to this guy talk about the CSD's, they were more like a fancy car *than a family member - valuable and important to treat well and keep safe, but not the same emotions involved. *With this new dog, he'll own 5 dogs that aren't safe to walk - but that you can breed and sell for a lot... and that need very carefully selected owners...*Naomi


Zara and Oscar are family members. aka Pets. They do not work and we have no intention of ever working them. We do not show them and have no desire to show them despite the opinion of others.

We used to be members of a Molosser Dogs Forum but our membership was short lived simply because we didn't fit into their ideals of Big Powerful Dog Ownership. 
In short Zara and Oscar are neither Statement, Status Symbol or Hardware.

Folks who view their Dogs in such a way are the root cause of a massive problem which, in the long term, inevitably affects each and every responsible and innocent dog owner.

I doubt this terminally irresponsible individual you speak of would care very much who buys his Dogs or for what purpose just as long as they front up with the Cash.:mad5:


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Zara and Oscar are family members. aka Pets. They do not work and we have no intention of ever working them. We do not show them and have no desire to show them despite the opinion of others.
> 
> We used to be members of a Molosser Dogs Forum but our membership was short lived simply because we didn't fit into their ideals of Big Powerful Dog Ownership.
> In short Zara and Oscar are neither Statement, Status Symbol or Hardware.
> ...


I totally agree...and I hope you didn't think that I meant that these dogs couldn't be walked and members of the family...I didn't...but I think these ones are kept outside with their guarding instincts nurtured - they're certainly not socialised and they definitely don't go out for walks...

Naomi


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

missnaomi said:


> I totally agree...and I hope you didn't think that I meant that these dogs couldn't be walked and members of the family...I didn't...but I think these ones are kept outside with their guarding instincts nurtured - they're certainly not socialised and they definitely don't go out for walks...
> 
> Naomi


There really should be a special licence required for breeding certain dogs, but I am afraid people would get paranoid like they already are about certain breeds. I don't know what the answer is. So many people buy a dog for its looks. Looking at that picture of Zaros' Oscar, you just want to throw your arms round him, he looks just as benign and cuddly as Ferdie. But you could just throw your arms around a newfie, that is the big difference. I wouldn't chance it with a Sar!

In Denmark you used to need special permission to own or breed a Broholmer, but now they have spread to other countries, anything goes.

I wonder how many of these puppies are going to end up in rescues or being sold on to some other ignoramus.


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## GoldieGirl (Oct 26, 2011)

omg zaros your dogs are beautiful  what an amazing breed


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> *There really should be a special licence required for breeding certain dogs,* but I am afraid people would get paranoid like they already are about certain breeds. I don't know what the answer is. So many people buy a dog for its looks. Looking at that picture of Zaros' Oscar, you just want to throw your arms round him, he looks just as benign and cuddly as Ferdie. But you could just throw your arms around a newfie, that is the big difference. I wouldn't chance it with a Sar!
> 
> *In Denmark you used to need special permission to own or breed a Broholmer, but now they have spread to other countries, anything goes.*


I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of breeders having to obtain a 'special licence' for the purpose of breeding.

In fact I would welcome a system whereby each time the breeder wants a litter he must re-apply for the licence to do so. One licence per litter. 
This way I believe a tighter control can be kept on the number of litters being produced by any one breeder and any one Dog.

I would also recommend that each Dog be registered to a 'licensed owner'. Such a licence being obtained by complying/adhering to strict rules and regulations which provide for the proper well being of the Dog and prohibit any owner from keeping the animal in a back yard in Suburbia.

For the present moment people should responsibly and carefully consider that if they do not have an adequate or satisfactory environment to offer either breed and the time to devote to their upbringing then they should leave them alone.

In Denmark the Sarplaninac is already a banned breed.

Today many, many breeds suffer the abuse of vanity. As a prime example the internet is one half of a demon, which promotes the idea that owning certain BIG Dogs and other specific breeds is good for the image. Image, of course, being the other half of that very same demon. 
YouTube in particular is strewn with countless images portraying some Dog breeds as aggressive fighting machines and 'Man Stoppers' and photographs of owners and their respective Dogs are strategically and specifically postured to influence and suggest to the viewer that the Dog is much bigger than it actually is in real life.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> There really should be a special licence required for breeding certain dogs, but I am afraid people would get paranoid like they already are about certain breeds. I don't know what the answer is. So many people buy a dog for its looks. Looking at that picture of Zaros' Oscar, you just want to throw your arms round him, he looks just as benign and cuddly as Ferdie. But you could just throw your arms around a newfie, that is the big difference. I wouldn't chance it with a Sar!
> 
> In Denmark you used to need special permission to own or breed a Broholmer, but now they have spread to other countries, anything goes.
> 
> I wonder how many of these puppies are going to end up in rescues or being sold on to some other ignoramus.


Agreed, I also think there should be a size inspection done to ensure there are big enough indoor and outdoor weather proof enclosures for giant breeds, I know one woman round here who has 3 bearneas ...spelling is wrong sorry ...but she had an extension built on her house attached to an outdoor area specifically for her dogs she even sleeps in there as it's furnished out...unfortunately many don't think of the space needed for these dogs. I would love to own dogs of this size but although it would be lovely for me the house is no where near big enough so i wouldn't do it, Tex is a big gsd and it's only just right for him, it was only because it was either here or being pts I agreed to have this breed.
I Love my dogs and I adore big breed ones like the newfies/sars/co's but i know that though i threaten to steel Zara and Oscar  unless i win the lottery I will never be able to own one responsibly so would never put one through it. there should be a way of ensuring that others don't buy first think later and i think some sort of inspection and licence would help towards this


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> Agreed, *I also think there should be a size inspection done to ensure there are big enough indoor and outdoor weather proof enclosures for giant breeds,* I know one woman round here who has 3 bearneas ...spelling is wrong sorry ...but she had an extension built on her house attached to an outdoor area specifically for her dogs she even sleeps in there as it's furnished out...unfortunately many don't think of the space needed for these dogs. I would love to own dogs of this size but although it would be lovely for me the house is no where near big enough so i wouldn't do it, Tex is a big gsd and it's only just right for him, it was only because it was either here or being pts I agreed to have this breed.
> I Love my dogs and I adore big breed ones like the newfies/sars/co's but i know that though i threaten to steel Zara and Oscar  unless i win the lottery I will never be able to own one responsibly so would never put one through it. there should be a way of ensuring that others don't buy first think later and i think some sort of inspection and licence would help towards this


I don't think I would pass that test! I used to have a big house when I got Ferdie, but I downsized and my first consideration was: garden big enough for them to play in, kitchen big enough for them to eat in!

My lounge is very small (not as small as some I have seen) and I simply don't have any furniture. One sofa, one armchair (both of which the dogs sleep on) and one telly.

Unless you have a really small house, like the one bedroom dollhouses I have sometimes seen, I don't think it is a prime consideration. I would have an extension if I had the money. Most giants, and certainly newfies, are so laid back they really don't need much room in the home environment. It is always a laugh when they decide to chase each other around the lounge, but that doesn't happen often.

Livestock guardians though do need the space and I think they need the isolation, like Zaros' set up. Although they are well socialised, there is no risk of passers by and canvassers coming round and possibly getting mistaken for a predator.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I don't think I would pass that test! I used to have a big house when I got Ferdie, but I downsized and my first consideration was: garden big enough for them to play in, kitchen big enough for them to eat in!
> 
> My lounge is very small (not as small as some I have seen) and I simply don't have any furniture. One sofa, one armchair (both of which the dogs sleep on) and one telly.
> 
> ...


I suppose it's the classic looks can be deceiving thing isn't it, you look at a big dog and automatically think wow they must need a big house, which obviously, as with your breed isn't the case, Tex is a big lad when you see him in the flesh even for a gs but he still runs round like a puppy which even in house with 3 living rooms can be hard work,
So this means my dreams of ever owning a giant breed aren't so out of reach after all :biggrin:. One of my friends has a bernease living with a dwarf rabbit, now THAT is another thing I would never have expected to see and very cute.


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## Mici (Nov 13, 2011)

OK, just for you Zaros, here are pics of mine, not great quality tho as I do not have a camera:

both of them:

the remaining one:









this is a photo from show - she was just over a year old (it is also not the best pic as she was in heat just before this show but I don't have many pics on the comp):

http://www.bfro-uni-lj.si/ubu/apex/f?p=103:303:3066877025485854::NO::P303_IDZIVALS,P303_N:3562,1

Sorry, I am not really in to taking photos...

As for their reputation...You have to understand that this is not a new breed here (as karst shepherd is our native breed and we were once part of yougoslavia, the home of the sar) and these dogs were/are famous for their protectiveness and loyalty - there are even childrens books written about their loyalty but also ferocity (during war time). They were also used by the military (the sars) and to guard prisoners. But it is true that their protectiveness is encouraged to a degree...

The sars and the karst shepherds were the same breed until recently (under the name Ilyrian shepherd) but than they were split into two groups - the smaller and less sharp was named karst shepherd.

Well they are supposed to be sharp as they were ment to protect livestock from predators but also owners from unfriendly people...In our language we also have a saying: "Sharp as a karst dog", so by no means were they ever considered friendly towards strangers...They are indifferent to strangers untill THEY feel they need to act. Now if they are intensly socialized and know the difference between a friendly but nontrheatning and threatning people/situations than you can live with them quite happily even in towns (I wouldn'tgo as far as cities tho). This said tho they might not be the easiest to live with in such areas. In our country this is not such a problem as firstly our country isn't very densly populated and secondly people know this breed and know they can't just pet them without asking...

Now my dog is OK with people petting him. He does not enjoy it tho, he just stands there and gives me a look like OK I will tolerate it because you want me to. 
He also will not take food from anybody and I never tought him to do this. And he also won't obey anyone but our imediate family members. So if he was ever to get lost (in some odd odd situation) he would act as tho he was never trained and does not know any command. But I love this about him as he is our dog and I don't need him to obey anyone else but members of our family.

I love all dogs but sars and karst shephers have a special place in my heart. If I ever get a purebreed again I don't think i could get anything but these breeds. They are special, need special care with socialization but are so loyal and give you the sense of security even when you walk at night and you are a woman 

about the book - I have never heard of it before but will try to locate it. I have no problem reading serbian


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Mici said:


> You have to understand that this is not a new breed here (as karst shepherd is our native breed and we were once part of yougoslavia, the home of the sar) and these dogs were/are famous for their protectiveness and loyalty - there are even childrens books written about their loyalty but also ferocity (during war time). They were also used by the military (the sars) and to guard prisoners. But it is true that their protectiveness is encouraged to a degree...
> 
> The sars and the karst shepherds were the same breed until recently (under the name Ilyrian shepherd) but than they were split into two groups - the smaller and less sharp was named karst shepherd.
> 
> ...


Before moving to Finland I, just like a good many others, had never heard of the Sar'. I have my wife to thank for introducing me to this breed and although the Dog might be favoured here by some for Livestock protection proving beyond all doubt that it is a truly efficient and successful method of controlling nuisance, it is not widely used throughout areas were predators are known to be active.

The history of the breed, as we have discovered, is somewhat shaded and its true cultural identity lost because of the constant political fueding between nations, each claiming ownership of the breed.:frown2:
It seems utterly preposterous that such a magnificent animal should cause so much controversy and we have learned by experience never to talk of their heritage.:skep:

However, we know it takes a lot of consistent hard work to nurture a good and well mannered Sarplaninac and the same can also be said of the C/O.

Sometimes you don't get it quite right and other times you're left wondering what all the performance and fuss was over.

Zara and Oscar were raised in exactly the same way. (There's two months age difference between them) We never deviated once from their routines and exercises and despite all our efforts, they are still very different Dogs.

Zara is, without question a loving playful, crafty and comical Dog but is, sadly, still a slave to her instincts. 
In all probability she would have made a most excellent working Dog, but to be brutally honest the so called experts wouldn't entertain her because they didn't have the time to manage her strong determined and, often, fairly willful character. We really have no idea what might have become of her.

Oscar.....well Oscar is Oscar. I really don't think he knows he's supposed to be a Sar' and a creature of fearless reputation. He completely breaks the mould and lives up to being the 'Gentle Giant' the breed is also famed for.

Although he can exhibit a temper (due to recent events which I won't mention here, and recognises who is a real threat to us just by the make of the car they drive) he is just a Dog and is happy being so.

If he wasn't so big stupid and strong I would be confident enough to allow a someone to walk him out and feel fairly relaxed about his absence. 
He warms very quickly to people.


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