# My baby's having kitties this week



## bailey's mummy (Jun 10, 2011)

Hi there I am a new poster , I was reading previous threads for advice on the usual things us owners like to know.
My cat is due this week but as of yet has shown no nesting behaviour. Also she is very tempremental , normally she is a loving affectionate cat and i am missing our cuudles lol 
Sometimes she will let me stroke her head but all of a sudden she will scratch at me. Is this normal behaviour?
i have taken her to the vets 2 weeks ago who examined her and said all is well , the vet estimated she would have them that week , so she could be a little over due or the due date i predicted is correct and in fact she will have them this week. I am just looking for reassurance and any helpful advice in regard to my questions 
Thanks


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## coral. (May 11, 2011)

sorry i dont have much advice to give, cause my cats have never had kittens!
but just want to wish you good luck!
i bet there going to be adorable  x


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## LittleTyke (Apr 14, 2011)

My girl didn't start nesting until just before she had the kittens (2 or 3 hours) they're all different so just keep an eye out for excessive licking, chirruping and unusual behaviour.

The snapping is also normal, all girls react differently to their hormone changes and being heavily pregnant makes us all irritable! 

Good luck with her! Hope the birth goes well for you and her  What breed is she?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

very exciting! what breed is she?? what colours/patterns do you expect?


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## ajohnson (May 4, 2011)

Good luck, keep us updated


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## Louise Marsh (Apr 25, 2011)

Hello, firstly welcome to the forum  My cat had her first kitties a week ago, I didn't know what to expect either. I didn't see any nesting but noticed that she really cried when I left her and was off her food that night, there was a little licking around the vaginal area but nothing excessive, at half 2 in the morning I went to bed as I have 3 young children up at 7 and when they woke me at 6.55 and I checked on her I had 4 furbabies waiting, shame I missed it but in a way it was good as I would have been in a panic the whole time XD, but like LittleTyke pointed out, they are all very different and i'm sure you will notice any increased behaviour changes. keep us posted and hope it all goes well


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

bailey's mummy said:


> Hi there I am a new poster , I was reading previous threads for advice on the usual things us owners like to know.
> My cat is due this week but as of yet has shown no nesting behaviour. Also she is very tempremental , normally she is a loving affectionate cat and i am missing our cuudles lol
> Sometimes she will let me stroke her head but all of a sudden she will scratch at me. Is this normal behaviour?
> i have taken her to the vets 2 weeks ago who examined her and said all is well , the vet estimated she would have them that week , so she could be a little over due or the due date i predicted is correct and in fact she will have them this week. I am just looking for reassurance and any helpful advice in regard to my questions
> Thanks


if you are only predicting a due date I imagine this is an unplanned mating? In that case I hope you will spay her when she is ready after she has weaned her kittens (and keeping them until 12 weeks)

She is pregnant so of course she is changing, she is in an entirely different hormonal state and isnt going to be the same cat. How old is she?


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## bailey's mummy (Jun 10, 2011)

Hi there , thanks to all of you for your comments , its reassuring to know that evrything she is doing is normal. I have a due date but my vet thought she may have been further gone when I took her for examination. My cat is a beautiful moggie , but often is mistaken for a pedigree by friends etc. I love my cat and she wants for nothing. To those of you who have strong opinions on moggie breeding I understand your concerns and can see your point of view. I would never put my cat or kittens at risk , this was a planned pregnancy with a neoighbours cat , both are fully vaccinated and healthy , the kittens all have good homes lined up , I am keeping two and my partners mum who I bought my cat off is having the other. If she surprises me and has more then my sister or auntie may have one either way they will find nice forever homes. Sorry for the awfuly long post , I wanted to answer all questions at once lol


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## sharon_gurney (Jan 27, 2010)

Did you witness the maiting, what was the date? kittens are normally born around 63-65 days so you should be able to work out when she is due.

Ive got kittens due in about 7 days, its such an exciting but worrying time keep us all posted if you need help or advice there are some very knowledgable people on here that have oceans of experience.

Moggy breeding can get a bit of a heated topic on here but dont be affraid to ask if you need help or advice.


Good luck


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## bailey's mummy (Jun 10, 2011)

Hi Sharon , she was mated on the 13th of April , You must be going through all the emotions I am , it is exciting but the anticipation is building lol , I'm always checking on her hardly sleeping lol , yes I did get that feeling I did feel a few negative vibes coming through , but this is a forum so everyone is entitled to voice their opinions. I will keep you updated and I won't hesitate to ask for more advice , of course in emergencies I have my vet on speed dial lol but this is good for the little things people pick up on and can share with others


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## welshchick (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi Bailey's mummy like you my cat is having kittens but I am unsure of when mating took place as she was accidently let out by my partner while on heat I was very annoyed with him as we had managed to keep her in for nearly the whole time and she escaped at the end of her heat cycle. I think it was around the second or third week in April. She has gotten massive and she does nothing but sleep the kittens have been very active for just over two weeks now so I was assuming she would be due around now but don't know. We did book her in to be spayed but when we took her down they refused to do the op as they said she was in heat but when I found out she was pregnant they were willing to opetate on her then and abort the kittens but I refused as they said there was a risk of complications. I think the way they do things are stupid as they wont spay when in season but are willing to put cat at risk by operating when pregnant. Anyway I know there are lots of people that will comment rudely on my post and as I said at the beginning she got out by accident so I never meant for her to get pregnant in the first place. I hope your cat is doing well and that she has them very soon.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

welshchick said:


> Hi Bailey's mummy like you my cat is having kittens but I am unsure of when mating took place as she was accidently let out by my partner while on heat I was very annoyed with him as we had managed to keep her in for nearly the whole time and she escaped at the end of her heat cycle. I think it was around the second or third week in April. She has gotten massive and she does nothing but sleep the kittens have been very active for just over two weeks now so I was assuming she would be due around now but don't know. We did book her in to be spayed but when we took her down they refused to do the op as they said she was in heat but when I found out she was pregnant they were willing to opetate on her then and abort the kittens but I refused as they said there was a risk of complications. I think the way they do things are stupid as they wont spay when in season but are willing to put cat at risk by operating when pregnant. Anyway I know there are lots of people that will comment rudely on my post and as I said at the beginning she got out by accident so I never meant for her to get pregnant in the first place. I hope your cat is doing well and that she has them very soon.


Hi WelshChick,

Well, let me be the first to welcome you to PetForums. At least your first reply will be a nice one. 

Cats do escape, cats do get accidentally pregnant, and there are lots of unplanned litters. It's the same with the 'human' population.

The thing is, down here in the cat breeding section of PetForums, there are a select few who have nothing else to do all day with their lives except Police this place (voluntarily I might add) and arrest people who dared let their moggie cat get pregnant.

Some of these self-appointed 'SPC's' cannot understand the predicament of us mere mortals. Being that they must never leave their houses and meet ordinary people like us, and certainly do not let their cats go out either, they cannot accept that sometimes female animals get pregnant when us humans didn't plan it thoroughly.

They say that "ignorance is no excuse", and they sometimes use arrogance as a way of pointing that out.

But they're only a handful among thousands of us more friendly folk. You'll be pleased to know that the rest of Petforums is a really friendly place...even the mods are nice friendly people.

Best of luck with your Queen. I hope it all goes smoothly. Keep us updated.

:thumbsup:


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

classixuk said:


> Hi WelshChick,
> 
> Well, let me be the first to welcome you to PetForums. At least your first reply will be a nice one.
> 
> ...


 talk about stirring it up! If there were ever a post to get people angry it would be this.

There are *NO* excuses for accidents with our pets when it comes to breeding. But you can do something to put your mistakes right. The people that come on here shouting that they could never spay/aborb should think about that before they let 'accidents' happen ... and be sure to spay their pets as soon as is humanly possible. If it means selling your belongings to do so then you do!

To decide that *YOU* couldn't let your queen have a spay/abortion is thinking of *YOU* only. Not your cat who could die during the birthing process worst case scenario ... then there is the personality change to think about. But what the heck, so long as the cute fluffy kittens are OK right? But you don't even know if they will be ... you didn't do everything possible to ensure all risks were reduced, without health TESTING for everything possible in a breed you can never say you did everything you could to ensure they are healthy and that is because with moggies you have no idea what health tests need doing because there are so many breeds mixed in to one moggie, and each one has a different mix.

You don't know that any stud/s that your queen mated with are healthy or not. They could be carrying anything!

If you entire female cat escapes, put things right and get her spayed within a week of her return. Don't even think about any potential pregnancy UNLESS you're prepared for all the risks ... and I mean ALL the risks!

Have a read of this thread in case there is still any doubt in your mind at all http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-bree...at-pregnant-do-you-want-her-get-pregnant.html

There is *NO* justifiable reason for any of this ... just selfishness *IMO*.

Are we a pet forum? Do we care about our pets ... enough to do our very best for them? Then why is this soooo difficult to grasp?

People get angry with situations like this because it really is so simple yet the excuses are always the same for not doing to right thing.

Excuses about not spaying a cat because she was in heat, and then was discovered to be pregnant don't wash with me either. You only need to wait a few days after the end of a heat cycle to get them spayed and there is no way you or the vet would have known she was pregnant then. It's just a bunch of excuses really.

I'm sorry if the truth hurts. I've tried not to be insulting ... just honest. You take offence to my post then maybe it's because the truth hurts.


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## Cooniemum (Jun 16, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> Amethyst re read it hun
> 
> Baily's mummy ... What you're doing is totally selfish . You should have had her spayed instead of contributing to the rescue crisis that is getting even worse in this country. Also if you think you haven't put her at risk by mating her you are very wrong.
> 
> ...


Well you breed your cats don't you? Surely, there are so many cats in rescue that if you didn't breed then people would have to go to rescues instead of going to pedigree breeders like yourself?

I have had pedigrees and moggies and my moggies were far healthier and more robust than any pedigree that I have ever had, regardless of having had all the health tests done that needed to be done.

I am sorry but I find you very hypocritical - you choose to breed your cat but that's fine because they are pedigree but someone who has a moggie with good health and temperament gets shot down for choosing to let their cat have kittens?

How's about instead of being judge and jury, you give advice based on your own experiences as a breeder as I am fairly sure that this is all the OP has asked you for.

I used to breed but have recently stopped and I have lost count of the amount of people that said they were looking at rescue cats but then discovered my breed so decided to go for them instead.

I would also like to point out that some diseases and viruses lay dormant until an attack is triggered so your pedigrees could be carrying anything at all without you knowing. When people take their cats to stud, all that is tested for is FI/FELV but what about calici, herpes, corona....the list is endless without thinking about parasites and bacteria. Pedigrees are not always the healthiest and the best.


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## Cooniemum (Jun 16, 2010)

bailey's mummy said:


> Hi there I am a new poster , I was reading previous threads for advice on the usual things us owners like to know.
> My cat is due this week but as of yet has shown no nesting behaviour. Also she is very tempremental , normally she is a loving affectionate cat and i am missing our cuudles lol
> Sometimes she will let me stroke her head but all of a sudden she will scratch at me. Is this normal behaviour?
> i have taken her to the vets 2 weeks ago who examined her and said all is well , the vet estimated she would have them that week , so she could be a little over due or the due date i predicted is correct and in fact she will have them this week. I am just looking for reassurance and any helpful advice in regard to my questions
> Thanks


Hiya

Your cat is probably feeling a bit hormonal and uncomfortable, which is why she is behaving differently and I am sure that she will be back to her normal self once she has her babies. I bred pedigrees and some of them nested from 4 weeks pregnant, whereas others showed no nesting behaviour at all and were happy to be led where I wanted them to have her babies. As long as she has plenty of places that are calm and safe for her to nest when she's ready then she should be fine.

Give her attention and affection when she wants it but read her behaviour and back off if she seems unhappy.

Good luck x


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## Cooniemum (Jun 16, 2010)

welshchick said:


> Hi Bailey's mummy like you my cat is having kittens but I am unsure of when mating took place as she was accidently let out by my partner while on heat I was very annoyed with him as we had managed to keep her in for nearly the whole time and she escaped at the end of her heat cycle. I think it was around the second or third week in April. She has gotten massive and she does nothing but sleep the kittens have been very active for just over two weeks now so I was assuming she would be due around now but don't know. We did book her in to be spayed but when we took her down they refused to do the op as they said she was in heat but when I found out she was pregnant they were willing to opetate on her then and abort the kittens but I refused as they said there was a risk of complications. I think the way they do things are stupid as they wont spay when in season but are willing to put cat at risk by operating when pregnant. Anyway I know there are lots of people that will comment rudely on my post and as I said at the beginning she got out by accident so I never meant for her to get pregnant in the first place. I hope your cat is doing well and that she has them very soon.


I would imagine she is very close as you cannot normally feel movement until around 7 weeks and cat pregnancy is around 9 weeks in length. I totally disagree with spaying during pregnancy too so I understand how you feel, although it is obviously personal choice and everyone has an opinion 

Good luck with the kittens - hope it all goes well for you and her x


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Cooniemum said:


> Well you breed your cats don't you? Surely, there are so many cats in rescue that if you didn't breed then people would have to go to rescues instead of going to pedigree breeders like yourself?
> 
> I have had pedigrees and moggies and my moggies were far healthier and more robust than any pedigree that I have ever had, regardless of having had all the health tests done that needed to be done.
> 
> ...


Me a breeder? Nope not anymore!

I'm sorry but this whole argument for moggies being healthier than peds is also just pants. There is no proof of that and until the vets of the world start correlating some proper figures and humans start taking their cats to the vets when they are ill (because a huge number of people don't as awful as the thought is!) ... then it will just remain a 'rumour'.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Aurelia said:


> talk about stirring it up! If there were ever a post to get people angry it would be this.
> 
> There are *NO* excuses for accidents with our pets when it comes to breeding. But you can do something to put your mistakes right. The people that come on here shouting that they could never spay/aborb should think about that before they let 'accidents' happen ... and be sure to spay their pets as soon as is humanly possible. If it means selling your belongings to do so then you do!
> 
> ...


If there are no excuses, then that should apply to all things.

Nobody is born with a head full of education. It's called "learning".

When newbies come here, they are exactly that. NEW; at the beginning of their journey in learning.

What excuses are there for ANY member not to welcome them warmly, openly and kindly, no matter their ignorance at the time of joining?

Would we expect, or even accept, a small group of post-graduates sneering, insulting and snarling at a fresher on her first day at uni? Or perhaps watching them circle her like a pride of lions, reciting whole sections of their PhD's whilst calling her stupid because she doesn't know this stuff yet?

There are people posting here who think 'they're all that', but you know what? They aren't. If they were, they'd be helping people, not hounding the newbies out of the class.


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## Cooniemum (Jun 16, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> Me a breeder? Nope not anymore!
> 
> I'm sorry but this whole argument for moggies being healthier than peds is also just pants. There is no proof of that and until the vets of the world start correlating some proper figures and humans start taking their cats to the vets when they are ill (because a huge number of people don't as awful as the thought is!) ... then it will just remain a 'rumour'.


You were a breeder though but then stopped because didn't your lines have HCM in there somewhere? You can do all the testing and health checks that you like but it makes no difference at all in my opinion.

Moggies are healthier in most respects because they go outside and therefore the majority of sneeze spread illnesses are harder to catch due to proximity issues and also they don't use a litter tray and so those germs are pretty much eradicated too.....outdoor cats do not tend to go in the same area as other cats.

I have had enough pedigrees brought into my breeding in my time that have carried viruses and been poorly, that I have then had to get back to health whilst in quarantine away from my other cats and then find only cat homes for. Just because they are pedigree, doesn't make them better and a lot of pedigree breeders act no better than the people who's moggies get let out to have accidental matings.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

welshchick said:


> Hi Bailey's mummy like you my cat is having kittens but I am unsure of when mating took place as she was accidently let out by my partner while on heat I was very annoyed with him as we had managed to keep her in for nearly the whole time and she escaped at the end of her heat cycle. I think it was around the second or third week in April. She has gotten massive and she does nothing but sleep the kittens have been very active for just over two weeks now so I was assuming she would be due around now but don't know. We did book her in to be spayed but when we took her down they refused to do the op as they said she was in heat but when I found out she was pregnant they were willing to opetate on her then and abort the kittens but I refused as they said there was a risk of complications. I think the way they do things are stupid as they wont spay when in season but are willing to put cat at risk by operating when pregnant. Anyway I know there are lots of people that will comment rudely on my post and as I said at the beginning she got out by accident so I never meant for her to get pregnant in the first place. I hope your cat is doing well and that she has them very soon.


I just wanted to say that the spay is a very simple op and anyone with a pregnant girl who wants to spay, it is alot safer than making her go through a pregnancy. Also neutering can be done from 8weeks, normally 4-6months, so no excuse get em done! 

How old is your girl? Do you know how many calls she had before getting pregnant?



Cooniemum said:


> You can do all the testing and health checks that you like but it makes no difference at all in my opinion.


Yes but you health test and remove any cats with illness...thats the point, so yes it Is worth ir with cats/dogs etc


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## Cooniemum (Jun 16, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> Yes but you health test and remove any cats with illness...thats the point, so yes it Is worth ir with cats/dogs etc


Some tests are worth doing and other's arent. By all means, test for HCM but that is only testing for one of the genes that is known to cause it so doing a swab isn't enough. A cat could be scanned at 2 years old and be HCM negative and then show positive at 3.

With regards to the calici/herpes etc - these viruses hide very well. You can't test after vaccinations as that gives a false positive and then if the act isn't actively shedding then it will come up as a negative anyway. You only find out when this cat has kittens and they all come out with calici, by which time it's too late. The same with corona - if you have outdoor cats as well as your pedigrees then the chances are that your moggies are bringing in germs, viruses and bacteria every day.


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## welshchick (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks to all of you for your support and to the rest that don't like my post tuff things happen and that's that as to my reason for not getting her spayed it was the vet's decision not mine as she was already in heat!!! and two days after she got out we were going away on holiday for three weeks it was only when we got back that we found out she was pregnant by then it was too late I felt that it was not right to abort the kittens and put her life at risk also. I don't care about your opinions and as to pedigree cats being more healthier that's not true either both my moggies are very healthy and are up to date with vaccinations flea and worming treatment. New people come onto these sites for advice and not to be verbally attacked by narrow minded people. as I said in the first place it was never my attention for her to get out it happened by mistake. To delibrately mate your cat is far worse in my book and I know that all my kitties have new loving homes to go to to very loving cat owners and as soon as she is ready she will be spayed straight away when the vet sees fit to do so. I understand that bringing more cats into this world is not the best thing to do but it's happened and I just have to go with my decision to not have them aborted!!!!! both my cats are from rescue centres and there were lots of adult pedigree cats that had been left abandoned as their owners had got what they wanted off them over the years and they had been dumped as they had got too old to produce any more litters to line their owners pockets with more money.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

welshchick said:


> Thanks to all of you for your support and to the rest that don't like my post tuff things happen and that's that as to my reason for not getting her spayed it was the vet's decision not mine as she was already in heat!!! and two days after she got out we were going away on holiday for three weeks it was only when we got back that we found out she was pregnant by then it was too late I felt that it was not right to abort the kittens and put her life at risk also. I don't care about your opinions and as to pedigree cats being more healthier that's not true either both my moggies are very healthy and are up to date with vaccinations flea and worming treatment. New people come onto these sites for advice and not to be verbally attacked by narrow minded people. as I said in the first place it was never my attention for her to get out it happened by mistake. To delibrately mate your cat is far worse in my book and I know that all my kitties have new loving homes to go to to very loving cat owners and as soon as she is ready she will be spayed straight away when the vet sees fit to do so. I understand that bringing more cats into this world is not the best thing to do but it's happened and I just have to go with my decision to not have them aborted!!!!! both my cats are from rescue centres and there were lots of adult pedigree cats that had been left abandoned as their owners had got what they wanted off them over the years and they had been dumped as they had got too old to produce any more litters to line their owners pockets with more money.


bit of a nasty post when I asked genuine questions so I can advise and help you out 

good luck, hope it all goes well.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm not going to lambast you for an accident which I'm sure you wish had never happened and are kicking *yourself* over, let alone getting a verbal kicking from anyone else.

Some of the best and most sound advice and help you'll get here are from breeders of pedigree cats with a lot of experience.


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## Cooniemum (Jun 16, 2010)

I think the problem is that breeders are advocating deliberately breeding their cats and still putting them at risk of all kinds of problems and yet others that have an accidental mating for their moggies are slated.

As I said before, I bred for a few years and nearly lost a girl to pyo as well as losing kittens that were stillborn or fading.....had I not have bred in the first place then none of this would have happened. Being a pedigree breeder doesn't make me a better person than a moggie breeder, in my opinion. The same risks are there regardless.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am closing this to remove some of the offensive comments on here. It will be back shortly.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Okay back again but can we please keep clear of deliberately offensive remarks from either side of this. It is a question about advice for a cat due to give birth shortly not the pros and cons of breeding pedigrees or moggies, accidentally or deliberately.


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

Baileysmum, if your girl was actually mated on the 13th april, add 2 days for conception then it would make tomorrow day 63 so she should be just about ready to pop anytime in the next 7 days, if she goes over to day 71 or shows any distress likes shes in pain then a vets appointment will be needed as she may need a c section.

As for nesting, some can nest for weeks before, some dont even nest at all as someone said before just make sure she has plenty of places where she would be happy but also where you can keep an eye during labour for any problems

Make sure you have an emergency vets number handy just in case and there is a good sticky thread about what you need to prepare for the birth.

As for the behaviour well its completely normal to have mood swings for humans so it would make sense that cats can be just as moody, at least they dont get pmt! 

Good luck and hope all goes well, and dont forget to feed on demand for mum, she'll need all the calories she can get now and also while feeding x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Id be keeping her in one room with you seperate from other cats/pets, with her birthing box, dont let her have free run, only in the day, if you are sleeping with her on the sofa, I find that best, until the kits are 4-8weeks old.


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> Id be keeping her in one room with you seperate from other cats/pets, with her birthing box, dont let her have free run, only in the day, if you are sleeping with her on the sofa, I find that best, until the kits are 4-8weeks old.


Yeah sorry should of thought of that! My brains a bit mulched at the moment with copyright laws and currency converting   plus Tilly was my permanant shadow for the last 4 weeks of her pregnancy, she'd of come on the school run to if i'd of let her


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Myanimalmadhouse said:


> Yeah sorry should of thought of that! My brains a bit mulched at the moment with copyright laws and currency converting   plus Tilly was my permanant shadow for the last 4 weeks of her pregnancy, she'd of come on the school run to if i'd of let her


lol doesnt matter you said the same thing, just didnt shut the door! :laugh:


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## welshchick (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi Taylorbaby sorry that post wasn't directed at you it was for something that was said earlier so please do not take offence as it was not meant for you and I apologise sincerely if you felt it was. I only joined this forum to read up on things and seek advice if needed as I have only had male cats in the past so I am really unsure of what to look out for. I know people have their own opinion but there is no need for people to be nasty to one and other as some people come on here merely to get help and advice and not to be verbally abused. So again my apologies but it was not directed at yourself.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

I had three boxes for our cat as we weren't sure which she'd prefer, an open one, a closed one or a semi closed one. In the end she gave birth under my daughters cot.

I kept them upstairs for about 3 weeks and then slowly brought them down the stairs, mum wasn't ready and kept putting them behind the sofa so the box had to go there for a while.

Have some babycat milk in just in case, see if a vet can show you how to syringe feed.

Make sure you weigh them same time every day, and get some puppytag ID collars so you can tell them apart when weighing


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

classixuk said:


> If there are no excuses, then that should apply to all things.
> 
> Nobody is born with a head full of education. It's called "learning".
> 
> ...


exactly, and welcome to the forum from me too, what a shame you came in the cat door


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

I couldve sworn I posted on this the other day saying good luck with mum and new babies  it doesnt take much to confuse me.

Welshchick I really hope all goes well with your girl and her babies. As others have said you didnt expect this to happen and are quite possibly kicking yourself. Hope you can get some good info off here, I know some members are trying to help and will continue to do so as much as possible. 

As for me, well.....Im going to drool over the pretty kitten pictures xxx


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