# Hissing at an owner - unacceptable?



## troublecat (Feb 1, 2011)

I've just been reading up on behaviour and have seen that a cat hissing at an owner is 'unacceptable'. Molly hisses and swipes at OH quite a bit, usually but not always when she's been in a ruck with Candy.

Is 'hissing' unacceptable in the way that growling is in dogs? I know that cats aren't pack animals but I'm wondering if we are like other cats to them - that having cats live with people is kind of like a multi-cat household and a pecking order still needs to be established? 

No idea what to do about it, mind...


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## Gem16 (Aug 5, 2010)

Well it's not wanted behavior but we all know cats have their funny moods and if your cat is p***** off and hisses, what are we really going to do about it apart from take the hint and leave them alone  
When a dog growls their aserting themself as the pack leader and showing their dominance which is not acceptable.
When a cat does it their pretty much saying, leave me alone!


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## lucylocket35 (Feb 5, 2011)

Someone told me that hissing was a sign of fear rather than aggression.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I really dont think there is any way to compare dogs and cats.Their behaviour means very different things.I do know having bred dogs in the past that I would correct a dog for growling as that is usually a dominance/push your luck type of thing wher when a cat does it it is more likely to be ,Your in my space please leave.


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## Gem16 (Aug 5, 2010)

Agree with Buffie, my dogs would never be allowed to growl but if my cat hisses i accept that i am in the wrong. I only have 1 who does it very occasionally, Oliver, and that is when he has got into a cat fight outside, he comes in and is still frustrated, if we don't give him enough 'chill out' time he will hiss at us.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

buffie said:


> I really dont think there is any way to compare dogs and cats.Their behaviour means very different things.I do know having bred dogs in the past that I would correct a dog for growling as that is usually a dominance/push your luck type of thing wher when a cat does it it is more likely to be ,Your in my space please leave.


Sorry but for dogs I'd say quite the oppositte. If a dog growls s/he is warning you that s/he is not happy with a situation. If you correct/reprimand a dog for growling then they may learn that growiling is unacceptable so not give a waning if a situation upsets them & just go straight for the bite.

Similar for cats, if a cat hisses then they are not happy. You need to find out why they are not happy with a situation; is your OH walking too near, talking too loudly, etc, there are many reasons why an animal chooses to act in such a way & you need to try & find outwhy, calm them & try some bahaviour modification rather than reprimand them for displaying a natural behaviour.


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## Gem16 (Aug 5, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Sorry but for dogs I'd say quite the oppositte. If a dog growls s/he is warning you that s/he is not happy with a situation. If you correct/reprimand a dog for growling then they may learn that growiling is unacceptable so not give a waning if a situation upsets them & just go straight for the bite.
> 
> Similar for cats, if a cat hisses then they are not happy. You need to find out why they are not happy with a situation; is your OH walking too near, talking too loudly, etc, there are many reasons why an animal chooses to act in such a way & you need to try & find outwhy, calm them & try some bahaviour modification rather than reprimand them for displaying a natural behaviour.


I think it may be that their not happy with the situation but i 100% believe it is a dominance thing in some dogs and completely unacceptable. An example is a dog growling because their laying on YOUR bed and growl when YOU try to get on it, how can people put up with that???  mind boggles.
We have had lots of dogs and we would never put up with any rubbish from them. it's amazing how much we will put up with from cats :lol:


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Gem16 said:


> I think it may be that their not happy with the situation but i 100% believe it is a dominance thing in some dogs and completely unacceptable. An example is a dog growling because their laying on YOUR bed and growl when YOU try to get on it, how can people put up with that???  mind boggles.
> We have had lots of dogs and we would never put up with any rubbish from them. it's amazing how much we will put up with from cats :lol:


I don't put up with behaviour, I have worked with my dog to minimise resource guarding as he was growling at the cats & my OH when he had certain treats. But if I had constantly reprimanded him then he may not have issued a growl which is a better indication of his unhappiness than a bite. working with him to prove that he has nothing to worry about (no one wanted his smelly chew!) has meant that he is fine now.

Similar with the cats & our new dog. They constantly swiped & hissed at her (she is a big, excitable GSD). She did get too close & they were not happy. By keeping her leashed at first & gradually letting them all get to know each other the cats are now much happier around her & don't feel the need to be so defensive.

Completely agree with putting up with cat behaviours - I would never let the dogs behave as badly as the cats


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

buffie said:


> I really dont think there is any way to compare dogs and cats.Their behaviour means very different things.I do know having bred dogs in the past that I would correct a dog for growling as that is usually a dominance/push your luck type of thing wher when a cat does it it is more likely to be ,Your in my space please leave.


 Cleo,I think you misunderstood me .When I say i would correct growling in a dog I meant I would not ignore it as a" leave my space "as I would a cat.Dogs growling in my experience has always been a dominance thing which cannot be left it has to be sorted out or the dog thinks it has won a battle which it didnt really want to fight in the first place.It has to be done with cooperation on both sides ,gently and firmly so that the dog does not feel threatened.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

buffie said:


> Cleo,I think you misunderstood me .When I say i would correct growling in a dog I meant I would not ignore it as a" leave my space "as I would a cat.Dogs growling in my experience has always been a dominance thing which cannot be left it has to be sorted out or the dog thinks it has won a battle which it didnt really want to fight in the first place.It has to be done with cooperation on both sides ,gently and firmly so that the dog does not feel threatened.


Sorry I would disagree & think that there are many reasons why a dog is growling & I don't really buy in to the dominance theory with dogs - but each to their own 

Again, similar to the cats, if they are uncomfortable & are either growling/hissing/swiping then they are clearly not happy & I would need to find out why they were doing this & work with them to minimise the unwanted beahviour (although as said earlier, cats seems to be harder to work with than dogs ... well, mine are!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I doubt its a pecking order thing, I dont even think cats really have them looking at my lot!

Although elvis has a big patch outside where all the cats respect him so he protects them!! :lol:

however she maybe in pain or upset or annoyed and saying 'im scared/hurt stay away' ifs its only your partner he could have done something without knowing which has made her scared, start trying to bond from the start? try feliway?


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## troublecat (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm finding this really interesting, thank you everyone! :thumbup:

Okay, well as many of you know Molly and our other new rescue Candy aren't getting on. Most of the hissing at OH from Molly has come immediately after they've had a bust up.

The two exceptions were once when he went to stroke her or pick her up, and once when he was shooing her away from Candy's food - she was hissing at Candy whilst she was feeding. She's never hissed at me or the kids and if she doesn't like what we are doing she just scoots out of reach. 

I've now reached the stage where I think we need to see a behaviourist if we are going to get both cats together - presumably this will sort out the hissing at OH?

When we say that we are in the wrong when cats hiss at us, is that because we aren't part of their pack (becaus there isn't one) and essentially they view us as otehr solitary animals and so we must do the same? I understand that cat behaviour modification is reward-based and not discipline-based.

As an aside the one and only time in her life when my old lab growled at me was when I scratched her back near her tail. She'd always loved this - I took her straight to the vet and an x-ray showed that two of her vertebrae had fused together.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

If I were you I would try to keep a diary of problems you are having & note all details. It can be a pain but the more information you can gather about your cats for advice the better. 

You can also pinpoint specific triggers more easily - we did this when our second dog had problems & it did make things easier when we then consulted a behaviourist & had alot of info regarding specific events.


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## troublecat (Feb 1, 2011)

Thank you, Cleo - I have been making a note and also any behaviourist can look at this forum for a pretty good idea of what is going on, given that I keep on posting panic-sticken tales of woe!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

I think what you're describing is called redirected aggression which happens when Molly is still 'bristling' from the confrontation with Candy and your OH is the one on the receiving end though thankfully not the intended target! I've noticed it with my own cats occasionally although with them it's another innocent feline bystander who is on the receiving end!

Hopefully as their relationship improves you'll see less of it.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> I think what you're describing is called redirected aggression which happens when Molly is still 'bristling' from the confrontation with Candy and your OH is the one on the receiving end though thankfully not the intended target! I've noticed it with my own cats occasionally although with them it's another innocent feline bystander who is on the receiving end!
> 
> Hopefully as their relationship improves you'll see less of it.


That is true. I remember Nunu, who is not at all an attacking cat, attacking my foot after a yowling match with the neighbourhood tom.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I know you keep talking abouts packs, but cats dont have them, they are loners by nature and we bring them together, of course some get on and some dont!

Id honestly seperate them keep them in different rooms get some feliwy spend time with each and start from the vet beginning with small introductions.

They will probably never get on, with rescues I doubt that you know her past? She may have been bullied by lots of cats or never had to share, so you just dont know.

I also agree with the hissing thing, one of my cats was annoyed and hissed at me when she was meant to hiss at someone else! When she raelised what she done she was apologetic lol!


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## Gem16 (Aug 5, 2010)

Where i volunteer, if your in with a cat who really hates other cats and they see one walk by, they will very often re direct their aggression onto you ie hissing, then as soon as it has passed again their as nice as pie


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Ianthi said:


> I think what you're describing is called redirected aggression which happens when Molly is still 'bristling' from the confrontation with Candy and your OH is the one on the receiving end though thankfully not the intended target! I've noticed it with my own cats occasionally although with them it's another innocent feline bystander who is on the receiving end!
> 
> Hopefully as their relationship improves you'll see less of it.


Yes I agree. One of my cats can be a bit bad tempered if someone invades his space or messes with him when he's not in the mood so he hisses or growls and walks away and as he walks any other innocent bystander receives his wrath as well.


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

Hi,

Im new here but have read a few of your posts - Im probably going to annoy a few people with this post so appologies!

Right firstly EVERY household has a pecking order (even those without animals!)
You are the leader as you are the main carer/provider of food etc. The rest of the household will figure their places out naturally over a period of time and sometimes this "order" will change from time to time.

Cats are also very sensitive to emotions so the more nervous you are when you see them together the more on edge they will be!

Next - your cats are basically at opposite ends - and as far as Molly is concerned your OH has taken Candys side which is why he's getting the rough end of the stick!

Lots of people have suggested slow intro's which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't - but what you CANT do is let them be together then seperate then start and stop as it will get you nowhere im afraid!

If I was you I would put them both in the most uncomfortable room in the house (ie kitchen or bathroom) Somewhere where there are no comfy places to sit and make them work it out themselves - shut them in together for about 24-48hrs and you will most likely find that they have figured out that if they want the nice comfy sofa to lie on then they are gonna have to share it!

And yes they may also have a fight or two to start with but one needs to be seen as the dominant over the other or they will never get along!

Yep its sounds harsh but cats tend to come together when faced with the same dilema!

My cat Goose hates the rabbit - but he will protect him if a strange cat comes near!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Myanimalmadhouse said:


> Hi,
> 
> If I was you I would put them both in the most uncomfortable room in the house (ie kitchen or bathroom) Somewhere where there are no comfy places to sit and make them work it out themselves - shut them in together for about 24-48hrs and you will most likely find that they have figured out that if they want the nice comfy sofa to lie on then they are gonna have to share it!
> 
> ...


If you want two cats that are very possibly going tear each other to pieces,and be so stressed and upset that they will possibly never be able to be together then go for it,but in my opinion this piece of "advice "is going totally against everything that is trying to be achieved.I have heard some daft ideas but this is priceless.


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Got to agree with buffie, I personally think thats ridiculous. My kitten Loki constantly chases/terrorises my older girl annie and she does not fight back, she just runs to higher ground. I'd hate to think of what would happen if she was stuck in a small room with him with no escape route, poor baby, it would absolutely stress her out no end, and may even end in her getting hurt. She is not a fighter, and some cats just do not fight back, so this could end in disaster.


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

See I said it would annoy :lol:

Unfortunately it is a tried and tested method and has a pretty good success rate!

I've not had to do it myself as im not sure if its luck or the "vibe" of my house but all my animals have pretty much settled within a week or so. However my mum has had to do it before when we were kids as a last resort and worked a treat!


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Myanimalmadhouse said:


> See I said it would annoy :lol:
> 
> Unfortunately it is a tried and tested method and has a pretty good success rate!
> 
> I've not had to do it myself as im not sure if its luck or the "vibe" of my house but all my animals have pretty much settled within a week or so. However my mum has had to do it before when we were kids as a last resort and worked a treat!


It didn't annoy, I just disagree. Each to their own. My slow and steady way of doing things worked better in our house.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Myanimalmadhouse said:


> See I said it would annoy :lol:
> 
> Unfortunately it is a tried and tested method and has a pretty good success rate!
> 
> I've not had to do it myself as im not sure if its luck or the "vibe" of my house but all my animals have pretty much settled within a week or so. However my mum has had to do it before when we were kids as a last resort and worked a treat!


It doesnt annoy me.It saddens me ,that you could have such little regard for the physical and mental well being of animals ,that you would even consider suggesting this as a way to encourage two cats to start to get along together.


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## catsmum (Feb 4, 2011)

Myanimalmadhouse said:


> See I said it would annoy :lol:
> 
> Unfortunately it is a tried and tested method and has a pretty good success rate!


tried and tested. when?

when Queen Victoria was a girl?

caning in schools was a tried and tested way of discipling children with a pretty good success rate too, but it doesn't mean we don't move with the times.

but you dont annoy me, you are just stuck in a time warp with very old fashioned ideas


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## Gem16 (Aug 5, 2010)

I wouldn't shut my cats in a room like that no, especially if i knew there was already issues between them.
I think the type of intro you do really depends a lot on the cats in question, most of mine in the past have had steady introductions, but we have also had a couple that were brought into the house and literally left to get on with things, when we got Lexi 2 years ago we brought him home, let him out and he wandered around, he was never put seperately BUT we already knew he was very good with other cats, and my Oliver actually has a soft spot for younger males, despite the fact he fights with females outside   
There was hissing on Olivers part for the first couple of weeks, but he is a million times better when he can interact with the new cat, he gets very stressed if he knows one is in another room but cannot get to it, which actually makes him more aggressive, so like i say it's down to each individual situation most of the time.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Myanimalmadhouse said:


> See I said it would annoy :lol:
> 
> Unfortunately it is a tried and tested method and has a pretty good success rate!
> 
> I've not had to do it myself as im not sure if its luck or the "vibe" of my house but all my animals have pretty much settled within a week or so. However my mum has had to do it before when we were kids as a last resort and worked a treat!


I think this is more to do with good luck than any sort of judgement. I would never recommend this sort of approach with any animal


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

Dont get me wrong here - I would certainly not suggest it for everyone! But after reading several of this ladys posts it seems she has pretty much tried everything else and is at the point of either giving one back to the animal shelter or spending a great deal of money on an animal behaviourist who wont tell her anything she doesn't already know!

And for the record I have the absolute highest regards for ALL animals physical and mental health even the creepy crawly ones that I dont even like!

From previous posts its pretty obvious Candys aggression is more to try and get Molly to leave so that she can have this home all to herself, its very posibly why she was at an animal shelter in the first place. If all the usual intro's etc haven't worked then isn't 24 hours of having to "suffer" a small sacrifice for both animals to have a loving caring forever home instead of being passed from one owner to another and never finding a real home?

These cats will never be best friends - they just need to learn to share!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Myanimalmadhouse said:


> Dont get me wrong here - I would certainly not suggest it for everyone! But after reading several of this ladys posts it seems she has pretty much tried everything else and is at the point of either giving one back to the animal shelter or spending a great deal of money on an animal behaviourist who wont tell her anything she doesn't already know!
> 
> And for the record I have the absolute highest regards for ALL animals physical and mental health even the creepy crawly ones that I dont even like!
> 
> ...


But 24hrs later you could have two seriously injured & distressed cats!! You really think that's dealing with the problem? Sorry, but I think it's more like crossing you fingers & hoping for the best.

I really don'[t think you can say that they will never be 'best friends' either - I have seen problems like this with animals & yet months later they are very relaxed in each others company.

Who know's what theire relationship will be like in a years time. But for now the OP needs to concentrate on the here & now & I think she is doing it the best way, it may take a long time but these things (usually) are never resolved over night.


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Myanimalmadhouse said:


> Dont get me wrong here - I would certainly not suggest it for everyone! But after reading several of this ladys posts it seems she has pretty much tried everything else and is at the point of either giving one back to the animal shelter *or spending a great deal of money on an animal behaviourist who wont tell her anything she doesn't already know!*
> 
> And for the record I have the absolute highest regards for ALL animals physical and mental health even the creepy crawly ones that I dont even like!
> 
> ...


How do you know this 24 hours of suffering isn't going to result in an almighty cat fight with one cat coming off hurt or injured? and that could potentially end up costing a whole lot more in vet fees than a behaviourist!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Myanimalmadhouse. If as you say,you have read a lot of the posts regarding these two cats,you will have seen that the advice that has been given has not been followed.So it is not surprising that the cats are now totally confused.As the OP has decided to "take a break" I dont think there is much point in debating this any further.


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

Chez87 said:


> How do you know this 24 hours of suffering isn't going to result in an almighty cat fight with one cat coming off hurt or injured? and that could potentially end up costing a whole lot more in vet fees than a behaviourist!


And thats why I wouldn't suggest it for 2 male cats! Female cats in general will not fight as aggresively and after the intial hissing, spitting and a few swipes will generally end up sulking instead.

Anyways Im sorry that its upset so many - it was just a suggestion!  Just seemed like the op was looking for something that hadn't been suggested yet thats all!

ps I did say in my first post that you cant start and stop things as it gets you nowhere


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

As Buffie says the OP has taken a break from here so I see no point in getting into arguments over this again. Because of that I am closing this thread.


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