# Agh! Why won't my boys just function?!!



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I have been waiting for Mitzi (Tiffanie) to call for months and finally she seems to be calling. At least, she's making the right noises and she's rolling and the local romeos have turned up. She's out in a pen because three of my other cats have taken to bullying her, she's in with Nigel who is a lovely gentle boy aged 10 months and, yes you've guessed, he is doing nothing at all (despite having tried it on with his sister months ago)

So, do I wait and hope that Nigel will do the job - he's the one I really want, I am desperate for my fourth generation Tiffanies and he is one way to get those; or do I try her with Basil (Burmese) who has so far been unable to work out how to insert A into B - this would give me shorthair selfs, variants and ticked tabbies, most unlikely to be show quality because of coat length, so nothing I would want to keep, and in colours that are very difficult to sell, but at least it would prove Basil, if he managed to do it, though I might risk ending up with a mixed litter if by any chance Nigel has done the job; or do I wait until her next call, separate her, and then take her to stud next time, assuming there are any studs around by then that I might want to use (the one I had in mind is about to be neutered). Or do I separate her from Nigel right now and just assume he hasn't done the job and take her out to stud? Agh! Why won't my boys function??!!

Liz


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## Baby British (Jan 24, 2010)

lizward said:


> I have been waiting for Mitzi (Tiffanie) to call for months and finally she seems to be calling. At least, she's making the right noises and she's rolling and the local romeos have turned up. She's out in a pen because three of my other cats have taken to bullying her, she's in with Nigel who is a lovely gentle boy aged 10 months and, yes you've guessed, he is doing nothing at all (despite having tried it on with his sister months ago)
> 
> So, do I wait and hope that Nigel will do the job - he's the one I really want, I am desperate for my fourth generation Tiffanies and he is one way to get those; or do I try her with Basil (Burmese) who has so far been unable to work out how to insert A into B - this would give me shorthair selfs, variants and ticked tabbies, most unlikely to be show quality because of coat length, so nothing I would want to keep, and in colours that are very difficult to sell, but at least it would prove Basil, if he managed to do it, though I might risk ending up with a mixed litter if by any chance Nigel has done the job; or do I wait until her next call, separate her, and then take her to stud next time, assuming there are any studs around by then that I might want to use (the one I had in mind is about to be neutered). Or do I separate her from Nigel right now and just assume he hasn't done the job and take her out to stud? Agh! Why won't my boys function??!!
> 
> Liz


Maybe play em a bit of Barry White.......... :lol::lol::lol:


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I knew this would be you. 

Is he not interested in her at all ? Nigel I mean ?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

He doesn't seem to be, no :frown:

Perhaps they are just too moral and I need to dress them up in wedding outfits and perform a ceremony.


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## wrinkles (Nov 2, 2007)

i feel for you i really do. my boy has just managed to get a girl pregnant, at the grand old age of 2!! my lad before him proved himself at 6 months  from one end of the scale to the other  must admit tho dont know if your boy might be the same, the new boy is VERY private. i didnt see any signs, not even sniffing round her. and they are both in the house!!! good luck


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

Liz, we've got the same problem with Kofi he's almost a year old but is still scared of our Queens!

Mind you I don't blame him with Lursa and Anara


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Ice was a bit scared at first but he soon got the hang of it.

Maybe bring her in for a while and put her back out tonight, they seem hornier at night time.

When I got Ice he had been outside from 3 months old and when he came here he was ready for action, even gripping the next of Poppy etc. I think he must have watched his brother and his Dad but I then motherfied him, are you mummying your boys ?

ARGGG why won't my www.sorchragdolls.co.uk fix itself I have fixed it twice now!!! (sorry)


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Give them some cat nip ?


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## tagalong (Jan 28, 2010)

lizward said:


> do I try her with Basil (Burmese) who has so far been unable to work out how to insert A into B - this would give me shorthair selfs, variants and ticked tabbies, most unlikely to be show quality because of coat length, so nothing I would want to keep, and in colours that are very difficult to sell, but at least it would prove Basil
> 
> since you state you don't want to keep them as they aren't showeable and would be hard to sell then this option is not ethical unless you intend keeping those you can't home which I believe is the responsibility of a breeder.
> 
> As for her if he has not mated her she will come into season again or remain in season but unless you are certain then taking her out to stud may also result in a mixed litter -the only 'safe' way is to leave her with him and wait and see.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

mellowma said:


> but I then motherfied him, are you mummying your boys ?


O yes, very much so, especially Basil.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

tagalong said:


> since you state you don't want to keep them as they aren't showeable and would be hard to sell then this option is not ethical unless you intend keeping those you can't home which I believe is the responsibility of a breeder.


You can always home them if you reduce the price enough. I have been known to give young adults away before now, when they were impossible to sell as kittens at anything like the going rate :frown:

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lizward said:


> O yes, very much so, especially Basil.
> 
> Liz


You need to stop mothering him so much I think.

I also believe that some cats just don't like some females and young males definitely need help/guidance at times, i.e. Basil missing A to B. Did you try tickling your girl the last time to raise her bottom ?


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## tagalong (Jan 28, 2010)

lizward said:


> You can always home them if you reduce the price enough. I have been known to give young adults away before now, when they were impossible to sell as kittens at anything like the going rate :frown:
> 
> Liz


I thought breeding was about the health and development of the breed not producing kittens to give away considering the rescues including pedigree ones are so full.
The going rate should in my opinion be the last concern especially if you choose to breed when you know the kittens are unlikely to be easy to home -why risk a queen with pregnancy when it is avoidable.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

mellowma said:


> You need to stop mothering him so much I think.
> 
> I also believe that some cats just don't like some females and young males definitely need help/guidance at times, i.e. Basil missing A to B. Did you try tickling your girl the last time to raise her bottom ?


No, she was off call by then.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

tagalong said:


> I thought breeding was about the health and development of the breed not producing kittens to give away considering the rescues including pedigree ones are so full.
> The going rate should in my opinion be the last concern especially if you choose to breed when you know the kittens are unlikely to be easy to home -why risk a queen with pregnancy when it is avoidable.


The reason would be to prove my other boy, which is important to me!

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

They will get there. Just thinks, it's only March!!  coming from the most impatient person in the world (possibly).


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## becbec31 (Jun 26, 2009)

Hi Liz,

Sorry to hear your having such difficulties with your boys. Its so frustrating at times isnt it. I was experiencing some problems myself. Last year my queen went on to stud at a friends with a very experienced stud. Nothing, as this was her first try we tried her again on and off for 6 weeks as she was calling nearly all the time. The stud mounted her etc but didnt quite get there. So my friend suggested she ma not like travelling away from home so her stud visited me here for a week. Same thing again. However it brought my other girl into call, and we had a successful pregnancy there.

I brought my own stud last summer but he was only a kitten he is now 12months.

So this spring my unsuccessful girl Mia starts calling again, I tried her with Hugo my boy in jan (he was only 9 months then ) he wasnt even slightly interested and when she was in his pen she just curled up and went to sleep none of the flirtation that was needed!! Arghhh!
Brought her back inside the house and she calls immediately so I rushed out to get my boy and put them together in the kitchen.
He tried afetr a while and she made some of the right noises but no pregnancy!

She called again 4 weeks later so I tried them again, once again had to bring him into her and we now are 5 weeks gone.

Does your queen show all the signs when shes around your boy? I think with my hugo he really needed encouraging to know what to do so I tickled her to get her to raise her bum near him and he seemed to get the idea after a few times.

Good luck Liz I know how frustrating it can be.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

becbec31 said:


> Hi Liz,
> 
> Does your queen show all the signs when shes around your boy? I think with my hugo he really needed encouraging to know what to do so I tickled her to get her to raise her bum near him and he seemed to get the idea after a few times.
> 
> Good luck Liz I know how frustrating it can be.


See, not just me who tickles their bottoms. :thumbup:


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## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

I think some boys are maybe put outside too soon.
I would always let my boys 'grow up' with the ladies in the house, that way when the girls called they gradually got to know what it was all about and would have several 'practice runs' till eventually they did the deed, more by chance than anything. But they new what to do next time sure enough.
I've had boys mate as young as 6 months and they all mated before a year old.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

My Basil still lives in the house most of the time, he is only outside for about eight hours a day, and Nigel still comes in quite often for a few hours when Basil is out (Basil hates him so it is not easy to have them in the house at the same time).

Mitzi has gone off call now, it was only three or four days and now the visiting boys have gone home (until next time, presumably!)

Liz


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## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

That does seem unusual seeing that they both spend time with your girls in the house. Male kittens will usually 'go through the motions' while playing.
I have heard that some boys only mate during the night or when their owners are out of sight, but I would have thought you would have heard him 'at it'.
I'm sure he will get there eventually, its so disappointing for you though.
At least its not like dog breeding, you dont have to wait another 6 months for your girl to call,lol
Good luck next time.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I find them more frisky at night. I have also noticed that putting Ice outside more makes him more friskier. (if that's a word)


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, Mitzi is calling again, three boys are round here, Nigel got round to swiping Mitzi in the pen, Basil is much more interested in telling the visiting boys what he thinks of them than in showing any interest in Mitzi. I have brought Nigel into the house and he is following Dawn all round chirruping to her but she isn't calling ...

AAAGH!

Two visiting boys:
















Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lizward said:


> Well, Mitzi is calling again, three boys are round here, Nigel got round to swiping Mitzi in the pen, Basil is much more interested in telling the visiting boys what he thinks of them than in showing any interest in Mitzi. I have brought Nigel into the house and he is following Dawn all round chirruping to her but she isn't calling ...
> 
> AAAGH!
> 
> ...


Ah cute! 

Do you know there is a thread on a raggie forum regarding this and some boys seem not to take to some girls. They just don't seem to erm... fancy them (I sound 12!) 

Try the catnip!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Catnip?? Please enlarge!

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lizward said:


> Catnip?? Please enlarge!
> 
> Liz


Catnip makes mine erm.. more amorous! Honest! When Poppy was having one of her quiet calls, she actually ran and snatched the bag of catnip and ran off with it, it must make them, erm... amorous. Yes that's a good word for it.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Right, well, I have plenty of catnip toys here so I'll give that a try!

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lizward said:


> Right, well, I have plenty of catnip toys here so I'll give that a try!
> 
> Liz


Yes and remember if she is not lifting her bottom enough. Tickle her back legs.


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## becbec31 (Jun 26, 2009)

Yeah def give her a tickle worked wonders with my boy! He seemed to get the smell then had a lick round and after that he seemed to figure it all out! Sorry if that's too much information x x


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Every cat is different so I do see that everyone will treat their prospective studs differently but I don't bring them up 'with the girls'. If you only end up moving a boy into his own quarters once he starts mating the girls it's as if you are banishing him from the house for doing the very thing you want. The other point, probably even more important, is that girls can be pretty nasty for a couple of days as they first come into call but are not yet ready to be mated. If a young boy has experienced this rejection it can make him very nervous and put him off from trying again for a long time.


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## sootisox (Apr 23, 2009)

Could it be the "boys in the P.E showers" type thing where your boys are feeling a little inadequate with the visiting boys staying over? They are VERY handsome :lol:


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sootisox said:


> Could it be the "boys in the P.E showers" type thing where your boys are feeling a little inadequate with the visiting boys staying over? They are VERY handsome :lol:


Well, that had occurred to me, but since I can't get rid of the two visitors, I'm not sure what I can do about it :

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

havoc said:


> Every cat is different so I do see that everyone will treat their prospective studs differently but I don't bring them up 'with the girls'. If you only end up moving a boy into his own quarters once he starts mating the girls it's as if you are banishing him from the house for doing the very thing you want. The other point, probably even more important, is that girls can be pretty nasty for a couple of days as they first come into call but are not yet ready to be mated. If a young boy has experienced this rejection it can make him very nervous and put him off from trying again for a long time.


Well that makes sense, but against it (in this case) is that 1. Basil is always trying to mate girls who are not calling and 2. Basil spends every evening and night in the house. And every previous stud I have bred has been brought up the same way without any difficulties.

I might try moving Mitzi into the house with Nigel (would mean putting the two who bully her outside but that can be managed of course) and see if that works.

Liz


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Basil is always trying to mate girls who are not calling


They may not be quite as 'touchy' as a girl who is coming into call. Basil may well be very aware of what stage of a cycle a girl is in and know to avoid the risk of a sharp NO! He probably knows non-calling girls are no threat. It may be worth making sure he and the girl you want him to mate are kept apart for a few days until she's in full call and then effect a 24 hour introduction period before letting them together to mate.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, thanks, I am willing to try anything!

Liz


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It is a case of seeing what works. All male egos are fragile and some are more fragile than others  I'm quite jealous of those breeders who end up with unintended litters from precocious young boys.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

So am I!

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Mitzi called again after a gap of just two days, Nigel still showed no interest, I even brought both of them into the house to observe them closely but nothing happened at all. In fact Nigel (11 months) doesn't even smell like an entire male yet. So I put Mitzi in with Basil, the one who so far had not worked out how to "insert A into B".

Well, I just caught him on top of her apparently quite close to the target area, the only thing is she didn't growl, instead she started rolling, but then she did the real ecstatic roll that they usually do after mating - and then both started cleaning themselves.

I wonder if he has done the job? I suppose at least he is getting closer which has to be good news. Only time will tell I suppose. The three visiting boys seem finally to have gone home - I guess they got hungry!

Poor Nigel is looking quite forlorn without his friend, but yesterday someone was bullying him and since I didn't manage to work out who it was (they were behind a chair at the time) I am reluctant to bring him in until I can supervise closely. I'm afraid both Nigel and Mitzi seem to be natural victims 

EDIT: Well, now I have put Mitzi back in with Nigel as she seems to have stopped calling, I brought Basil into the house for the night as I always do and immediately two girls decided to start their first call - both together, both in the hallway, with poor Basil not quite sure what to do first - he decided in the end to proceed upstaris to the bathroom where titbits are fed (don't ask, it makes perfect sense in this house!), to see what might be on offer tonight. Only problem now is Danny who is nearly 8 months old and old enough to spray so presumably not far off being mature enough to mate, he will therefore now have to go outside as I do not want him to mate with either of these, unless the two girls go outside with or without Basil. In fact I would much rather Dawn mated with Nigel but that doesn't look likely this year unless I put her on Ovarid and I don't want to do that. Isn't life fun!

Liz


Liz


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