# "Horses Don't Have To Be On The Road" - what's your take?



## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

I actually want to slap whoever wrote this and tell them to take my horse out on the road, then tell me who's the one in the wrong. I have cars tailing my horse, passing too close and not slowing down everytime i go out hacking. I've had people bib their horns because i 'haven't thanked them'... Well i'm not going to take my hands off the reins when they've sped past me to thank them for not slowing down... >.<

I personally think if horse riders shouldn't be on the roads cyclists and dog walkers shouldn't be allowed either, as both are equally as hazardous on the country lanes as a horse rider is.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I find the cyclists round here much more hazardous than the horse riders, I will never understand why they have to train using racing wheels and tyres, why not use something a bit more robust, which actually allows them to stay at the edge of the road. Yes it's not as smooth as the middle of the road, but it's a darn sight easier for cars to safely pass them. 

I always slow right down for horses, and on nasty bends in case there's a horse and rider just beyond them, they've got as much right as anyone else to use the roads. Unfortunately, a lot of people treat country roads like racing tracks, and I have actually come round a bad bend to find a 'hot hatch' on it's roof. And the amount of wildlife mowed down in the morning commute is just awful.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

I always slow down for horses, I had my own when I was younger but a lot don't and I needed to ride on the roads to get to the bridle paths. Horses have as much right to be on the road as any one else. Learner drivers should be taught to respect horses when they are learning to drive


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I find the cyclists round here much more hazardous than the horse riders, I will never understand why they have to train using racing wheels and tyres, why not use something a bit more robust, which actually allows them to stay at the edge of the road. Yes it's not as smooth as the middle of the road, but it's a darn sight easier for cars to safely pass them.
> 
> I always slow right down for horses, and on nasty bends in case there's a horse and rider just beyond them, they've got as much right as anyone else to use the roads. Unfortunately, a lot of people treat country roads like racing tracks, and I have actually come round a bad bend to find a 'hot hatch' on it's roof. And the amount of wildlife mowed down in the morning commute is just awful.


Racing bikes are the worst!!! Where i used to work it was narrow country lanes. And i went to the shop one afternoon, and one of the bends was a short and sharp 90 degrees... I was only doing between 15-20mph, don't know exact speed as i knew there was a bike race on. I ended up slamming on my brakes and up the grass verge because a cyclist came flying around the corner on the *wrong side of the road*, as he came round he smacked my car with his hand and called me a "stupid f***ing b***h" who needed to learn how to drive... >.< So i could have killed him if i hadn't of nearly crashed my car because of him... He was shortly followed by 20+ bikes, two of which asked if i was ok, and i said i had to stop because one of their cyclists nearly hit my car. But the others didn't even stop. I flicked my hazards on and waited till they'd gone to pull away. I couldn't believe how rude he was, considering i was in no way in the wrong... He wasn't wearing anything reflective. I didn't see him till last minute as he was going way too fast round that bend...

And when i ride my horse, we have no school/arena at the yard, we're not allowed to ride in the fields, so we HAVE to hack out. And in order to get to the bridleways, we have to hack for at least 2-3 miles each way out of our drive to get to one. So we HAVE to go on the road. We have no choice. Even to get to our nearby arena we rent, we have to use the roads. And half the time horses are more polite than cyclists. I slow down for cyclists when driving, none of them thank me. And half the time they ride in the middle of the lane, making it hard for me to go past and cause a long line of traffic. Whereas when i ride my horse if i can pull over into a driveway, footpath entrance or grass verge to make it easier for a long line of cars to pass if the road is busy both ways, i will. And half the time, NONE of the cars even thank me for that... Yet i still do it because it's safer. I hardly have any cars thank me for giving way to them or stopping to let them past. 
Even at one point i was on my way to the bridleway, i put my hand up to indicate i was going to turn right into the lane which led to it, the car behind me tailgated me, then decided he wasn't going to wait for me to turn off, and sped in front of me... He was so close i had to stop my horse. He had two or three cars behind him, the one behind was shouting in his car about him and asked if i was ok and let me go, of which point i said thank you and smiled as i thought that was really polite, as he actually had stopped and stopped the cars behind him doing so.

Cars just don't have respect for other road users.


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## wind1 (Oct 24, 2010)

I always slow down for horses and allow them a lot of room when I go past them but I do have to point out that often I come across 2 riding side by side who make no effort to move across to let me past (obviously if it is one on a lead rein I understand). Also I can be stuck behind one for quite a while as there is no opportunity to overtake but they don't step aside when there is a suitable place to do so, which they could do to let cars go by. So, there are two sides to every coin, not all horse riders are considerate to car drivers, it's not just the other way around.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Horses not allowed on the road?

How are they supposed to get to these (supposed) bridleways. There aren't many bridleways round here. Horses only emit greenhouse gasses when they fart, not all the time like cars.

I'm not a horsey person (I like horses but don't ride). I drive, cycle and walk on the roads. With patience and consideration, there's room for everyone. Car drivers or racing cyclists that don't have patience and consideration for others should be the ones not allowed on the road, they're the ones that endanger everyone they come across.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

I hate seeing horses on roads the sight makes me cringe, not because of the horses and riders but because of the car drivers that don't slow down and take a wide berth and to hell with the consequences. I dread the day that I witness a horse spooked by these idiots and injuring itself or others. 

i hate seeing them when Indie is in the car as she is scared and really barks, so embarrassing, I would hate her to be the cause of an accident :sad:


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Having ridden for most of my life the reality is that whilst, yes there are miles and miles of bridleways in this country they are not connected.

It is often necessary to ride on a road in order to get to the bridleway.

I should have thought that was obvious 

Believe me, I would hazard a guess that most riders would choose NOT to ride on a road, unless they really had to. It is a scary place!

We do not all have to luxury of keeping our horses adjacent to a bridleway nor do we all have the means to buy a horsebox to transport them to the bridleways.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> Having ridden for most of my life the reality is that whilst, yes there are miles and miles of bridleways in this country they are not connected.
> 
> It is often necessary to ride on a road in order to get to the bridleway.
> 
> ...


Now that's a good idea, all horse owners must own a horsebox to take them safely to the bridle path!! Imagine the chaos on the roads when drivers find roads half blocked by parked cars and trailers? That would really give them something to moan about :thumbup1:


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm really not a horse person in any way, shape or form. Yes truthfully I do find them annoying on roads, but no more annoying bikes (especially the idiots that ride in a large group making it impossible to pass), mopeds, tractors, people driving dangerously slowly etc. In my perfect world there would be a lane for all things slow moving but of course that isn't ever going to happen.

Actually thinking about it, bikes annoy me much more simply because I see far more of them.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

I always slow down for horses too, I've witnessed the damage they can do when they're scared..... 

Horses were here before cars, they have every right to be on the roads, I just wish drivers were more patient.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Swings and roundabouts.......swings and roundabouts


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I always slow down for horses, I have ridden on the roads and it is scary and you need to be aware of your surroundings and focused on the horse but some riders don't help themselves, I got stuck behind a girl on a horse walking down the middle of the road on a very loose rein who was listening to her iPod so loudly that she didn't realise that a car was behind her and embarrassingly apologised when I presume the song finished and she then heard my car, I have also come across riders texting or talking on their phones whilst riding along roads and some horses just shouldn't be on the roads due to their nerves, my husband had his car kicked and damaged by a horse bucking and going in the middle of the road to the point she got off it and stood on the verge waiting for it to calm down. it terrified my husband as he is scared of horses as it is and he just sat in the car turned off the engine in case that was inflaming the situation and waited for her to regain control of her horse :frown2:


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

We dont many horse riders here but it was part of my driving lessons to learn how to approach and safely pass horses.. I cant beleive there are many people who would prefer to walk thier horse along boring roads if they have the choice of that or nice country bridleways ..I presume that when I do see a horse on the road that its on its way from one bridleway to another or on the only available route...


Cyclists are a bloody menace they think the own the road and the rest of the world they race through the limited off lead dog area in large groups with no bell or lights and they do not slow down for anyone..
Even though our town and common has cycle ways they still insist on useing parks and off lead areas..

As for the yobs in the 4x4s who have never been near a farm or off road for any legitamate reason and own the vechicle simpley for status ?? They just need a good slap..

Oh and I agree with MM people using Ipods and other such things in traffic are idiots


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

dorrit said:


> We dont many horse riders here but it was part of my driving lessons to learn how to approach and safely pass horses.. I cant beleive there are many people who would prefer to walk thier horse along boring roads if they have the choice of that or nice country bridleways ..I presume that when I do see a horse on the road that its on its way from one bridleway to another or on the only available route...
> 
> Cyclists are a bloody menace they think the own the road and the rest of the world they race through the limited off lead dog area in large groups with no bell or lights and they do not slow down for anyone..
> Even though our town and common has cycle ways they still insist on useing parks and off lead areas..
> ...


I own a 4 x 4.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

dorrit said:


> We dont many horse riders here but it was part of my driving lessons to learn how to approach and safely pass horses.. I cant beleive there are many people who would prefer to walk thier horse along boring roads if they have the choice of that or nice country bridleways ..I presume that when I do see a horse on the road that its on its way from one bridleway to another or on the only available route...
> 
> Cyclists are a bloody menace they think the own the road and the rest of the world they race through the limited off lead dog area in large groups with no bell or lights and they do not slow down for anyone..
> Even though our town and common has cycle ways they still insist on useing parks and off lead areas..
> ...


That is also what I feel about horses. Although from a selfish perspective it can be annoying navigating around them, I'm guessing they are not riding on the road for pleasure but rather to get from A to B. As someone rightly mentioned, this is small island and there are usually roads separating bridle paths.

Unlike large groups of cycling lyra louts that ride in multiple tandem. The number of times I have been stuck behind them while they are chatting away is infuriating.


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## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

There is a misconception among some non horsey people that people with horses are wealthy upper class land owners and therefore have their own fields and land to ride on.
Not true, as all reasonable logical thinking people know. 
A bit of tolerance and some good manners from all parties is all that is needed. 
Car drivers do not have more rights or entitlements than any other road users. 
What next?
Perhaps a ban on cyclists, trailers, lorries, learner drivers, milk floats, and anything else which may travel slower than the mighty car driver.
I ride a horse, I drive a car, a motorcycle, and a horsebox.
It is interesting to see the level of tolerance and patience from others change, depending on which mode of transport I am using. 
I could rant for hours on this subject.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

As the mother of a daughter who has been involved with horses since she was 5 years old I have witnessed both sides.
Many horse riders are only on the road between bridle ways ,are in control of their mounts and do respect other road users.
In these situations if drivers give these horses room then there should be no problems at all,but there are also those who to be honest shouldn't be on horse back in a paddock on a lead rein. Mix them with the idiots in cars who think they own the road then there can only be one outcome.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RachJeremy said:


> I actually want to slap whoever wrote this and tell them to take my horse out on the road, then tell me who's the one in the wrong. I have cars tailing my horse, passing too close and not slowing down everytime i go out hacking. I've had people bib their horns because i 'haven't thanked them'... Well i'm not going to take my hands off the reins when they've sped past me to thank them for not slowing down... >.<
> 
> I personally think if horse riders shouldn't be on the roads cyclists and dog walkers shouldn't be allowed either, as both are equally as hazardous on the country lanes as a horse rider is.


I don't know the area, but there are lots of areas where there is nowhere to ride. It is also a fact that to get to these wonderful bridleways, riders need to use the roads. The bit about it being a display of wealth made me laugh, considering the majority of people out riding in public places are probably going without all sorts so they can keep their horse.

so we will ban horses, cyclists, dog walkers, runners and joggers, definitely tractors, and while we are at it let's ban people who use bad grammar from getting published in the local paper.

I knew someone who was killed, along with her horse, riding on a fairly straight country lane, easily seen, when a car who was not looking where he was going ran into her.

I also know of a car driver who went past a horse whose rider displayed a tabbard stating "slow please, young horse". The driver decided to bib his horn as he drove past, too close, the horse reared up and went through his windscreen.

Anything that is mentioned in the Highway Code is allowed on the roads, and inverted snobs with an envy complex should not be allowed to dictate otherwise. That is my take on it.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Horses shouldnt be on the road, thats obvious, they are skittish, and riders cant predict a horses every move, and certainly cant stop one doing whatever half a tonne of meat,bone and muscle will do, keep em in fields, move em in transporters

i dont drive in fields, they shouldnt ride on roads


then theres cyclists, who should all be banned basically


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> while we are at it let's ban people who use bad grammar from getting published in the local paper


Now you're talking 

As for horses, we have loads in this area. I can definitely tell the difference between those riders who know what they're doing and those who have moved to the country to a house with 'room for a pony'. One lot are a joy to share the roads with and the other are a blasted menace.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

I have no problem with either horses or cyclists, as long as they are sensible and considerate of other road users. I always slow down give both a very wide berth, because I am afraid that horses will get spooked, and cyclists will have a heart attack or stroke and fall off in front of my car (joggers have the same effect on me, especially the old/fat/grossly unfit ones who are panting away red-faced, barely able to stay upright, but I digress). However, when they are in the middle of the road, or riding two or three abreast, I get annoyed - the road is for ALL road users, and we have to be considerate of one another. (I also get peed with people who have dogs on flexi-leads and don't shorten and fix them, allowing their dogs to dart about across pavements, gardens and the roads. A DOG ON A FLEXI-LEAD IS NOT UNDER CONTROL!!! GET THAT INTO YOUR STUPID HEADS, YOU IDIOTS!)


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

delca1 said:


> I hate seeing horses on roads the sight makes me cringe, not because of the horses and riders but because of the car drivers that don't slow down and take a wide berth and to hell with the consequences. I dread the day that I witness a horse spooked by these idiots and injuring itself or others.
> 
> i hate seeing them when Indie is in the car as she is scared and really barks, so embarrassing, I would hate her to be the cause of an accident :sad:


The best thing you can do about that is to go nice and slow and watch for the horse's reaction. If it looks unsettled wait for the rider to let you know when it's safe to pass. I once had a tractor wanting to pass me, and my horse freaked out. It was a bit, loud monster to him. He want jogging and doing little rears. I had no space to pull over to let him have a look, as we were next to a hedge. So i would have hoped the tractor driver would have stopped or at least waited for me to say he could pass, seeing as there was a layby a little bit further down, he could have just waited... But no, he went past and it was a small lane and he was TOO close. I shouted at him as he passed me asking for a bit more respect as he could see my horse was spooking. But he just carried on and looked at me like i was mad... He wouldn't be saying that if he'd of run my horse over! I as he'd have a heck of a time dealing with me... Never mind me getting hurt, i care about my horse and won't let anyone hurt him. 
But most riders will rather you stay behind and distant until they have control of the horse and are able to let you pass safely. As it's not just us in danger, it's the drivers and their car.


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

MontyMaude said:


> I always slow down for horses, I have ridden on the roads and it is scary and you need to be aware of your surroundings and focused on the horse but some riders don't help themselves, I got stuck behind a girl on a horse walking down the middle of the road on a very loose rein who was listening to her iPod so loudly that she didn't realise that a car was behind her and embarrassingly apologised when I presume the song finished and she then heard my car, I have also come across riders texting or talking on their phones whilst riding along roads and some horses just shouldn't be on the roads due to their nerves, my husband had his car kicked and damaged by a horse bucking and going in the middle of the road to the point she got off it and stood on the verge waiting for it to calm down. it terrified my husband as he is scared of horses as it is and he just sat in the car turned off the engine in case that was inflaming the situation and waited for her to regain control of her horse :frown2:


He must of been rather close if the horse managed to hit his car.. Not going to lie. 6ft is roughly how far they can kick out really. And 6ft is far too close to be to a horse that is freaking out. The best thing he could have done as soon as he knew the horse wasn't happy was to slow down and keep back.

You've got to bear in mind, when you 'bring on' a young horse, you have to take them out on the road. No young horse will automatically be used to a road and cars. And just like any other animal they can on occasion throw a paddy or find something too scary for their own good. All they need is patience and distance from the cars.

But i always stand by the fact if your car gets kicked. You're too close.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Im not too fussed by bikes or horses and we have both in abundance around here (although bikes riding 3 or 4 abreast annoys me)

I do get nervous when the OH is out on his motorbike though - its a very loud beast, and even when going very slow, horses get upset by it. Plus Horse poop makes for quite dangerous riding conditions on a motorbike I am told!


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> Horses shouldnt be on the road, thats obvious, they are skittish, and riders cant predict a horses every move, and certainly cant stop one doing whatever half a tonne of meat,bone and muscle will do, keep em in fields, move em in transporters
> 
> i dont drive in fields, they shouldnt ride on roads
> 
> then theres cyclists, who should all be banned basically


I have a horse. We keep him on a small DIY yard. We are NOT allowed to ride in our fields. Since they're not ours and we rent them, we have to obey these rules. We do not even have our own riding arena. To get to the local riding arena or bridleways for us riders, we HAVE to use roads. And just to point out, most of the time horses freak out, they only get worse because car drivers keep going... If the drivers slowed and maybe turned their engine off and gave riders the chance to settle the horse, maybe that would be better?
I was once riding a friends horse for her. While my OH rode mine. I rode in front, and as we came into the village, a car came towards us, and the horse freaked, he didn't like the car at all. The people in front and behind turned off their engines, and gave me the chance to settle him, seeing as he was backing up and rearing. I managed to get my OH with my horse in front leading the spooking horse, and we got past the car, who i thanked so much for turning her engine off. This is something people should do... As cars do not own the roads. Nor do horses or any other non-motored type of transport.

And does it ever occur to you, that it's a waste of petrol to put them in a horse trailer and drive X amount of miles, where we're probably going to have to park up on the side of the road to unload the horse, which is even more dangerous...
Seriously... Go own a horse for a few months, then come back and say something.


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

lostbear said:


> I have no problem with either horses or cyclists, as long as they are sensible and considerate of other road users. I always slow down give both a very wide berth, because I am afraid that horses will get spooked, and cyclists will have a heart attack or stroke and fall off in front of my car (joggers have the same effect on me, especially the old/fat/grossly unfit ones who are panting away red-faced, barely able to stay upright, but I digress). However, when they are in the middle of the road, or riding two or three abreast, I get annoyed - the road is for ALL road users, and we have to be considerate of one another. (I also get peed with people who have dogs on flexi-leads and don't shorten and fix them, allowing their dogs to dart about across pavements, gardens and the roads. A DOG ON A FLEXI-LEAD IS NOT UNDER CONTROL!!! GET THAT INTO YOUR STUPID HEADS, YOU IDIOTS!)


If i ever ride two abreast, i always move over when i see cars. The only time i can't move over is if i'm riding and leading two horses, or leading a novice. That's the only time i actually can't move over much. But even then, i try to squeeze as much over as i can or pull into a place to let people past if needs be..

But OMG dogs walkers, with lose dogs?! I've had someone actually have a lose dog, where i've had to stop and get out my car and hold their dog, because it wouldn't move from the front of my car, till they came to get it. They stood there calling it? It's coming back, so come and get your dog of the f-ing road. >.< Cannot believe this woman... She was young and obviously had no idea and no control over her dog. And i'm pretty sure some people would have just ran the dog over.


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> Im not too fussed by bikes or horses and we have both in abundance around here (although bikes riding 3 or 4 abreast annoys me)
> 
> I do get nervous when the OH is out on his motorbike though - its a very loud beast, and even when going very slow, horses get upset by it. Plus Horse poop makes for quite dangerous riding conditions on a motorbike I am told!


My horse is terrified of motorbikes!!! But if i see one, or hear one, i will stop him somewhere and turn him so he can see them. I actually encourage them to go slow and take their time, so my horse can learn they're not going to gobble him up XD

And in all fairness, horse poo can be horrible. However i have before whized back out in my car if my horse has pooed on the road and scrapped it up and chucked it over the grass. So there are some considerate people out there. Luckily my horse hates pooing on concrete and he tends to hold it in till he's on grass... He's a bit weird like that ahaha!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

RachJeremy said:


> I have a horse. We keep him on a small DIY yard. We are NOT allowed to ride in our fields. Since they're not ours and we rent them, we have to obey these rules. We do not even have our own riding arena. To get to the local riding arena or bridleways for us riders, we HAVE to use roads. And just to point out, most of the time horses freak out, they only get worse because car drivers keep going... If the drivers slowed and maybe turned their engine off and gave riders the chance to settle the horse, maybe that would be better?
> I was once riding a friends horse for her. While my OH rode mine. I rode in front, and as we came into the village, a car came towards us, and the horse freaked, he didn't like the car at all. The people in front and behind turned off their engines, and gave me the chance to settle him, seeing as he was backing up and rearing. I managed to get my OH with my horse in front leading the spooking horse, and we got past the car, who i thanked so much for turning her engine off. This is something people should do... As cars do not own the roads. Nor do horses or any other non-motored type of transport.
> 
> And does it ever occur to you, that it's a waste of petrol to put them in a horse trailer and drive X amount of miles, where we're probably going to have to park up on the side of the road to unload the horse, which is even more dangerous...
> Seriously... Go own a horse for a few months, then come back and say something.


Only my opinion, but I would not ride any horse along a busy road, unless he was bombproof. With the volume of traffic on today's roads, it's asking a lot of any horse to be calm and not react at all. I certainly don't believe a busy road is the place for any young horse being brought on, particularly not without an older, steadier horse on the outside.

Expecting all car drivers to recognise that your horse is spooking and slow down or stop behind you isn't reasonable. Many car drivers wouldn't just know if a horse were getting revved up and in quick moving traffic, stopping and turning off your engine isn't realistic.
.


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

Sweety said:


> Only my opinion, but I would not ride any horse along a busy road, unless he was bombproof. With the volume of traffic on today's roads, it's asking a lot of any horse to be calm and not react at all. I certainly don't believe a busy road is the place for any young horse being brought on, particularly not without an older, steadier horse on the outside.
> 
> Expecting all car drivers to recognise that your horse is spooking and slow down or stop behind you isn't reasonable. Many car drivers wouldn't just know if a horse were getting revved up and in quick moving traffic, stopping and turning off your engine isn't realistic.
> 
> My Thoroughbred isn't reliable in traffic so, when I have to go on a road, I get off and lead him.


Well no, i wouldn't expect anyone to just ride and youngster out alone... If it was me, i would take out a better behaved horse with it too, one that could 'nanny' it. However that won't stop anyone from taking and youngster out alone if they so wanted to. There are just some people who feel they will be safe out there regardless. 
However saying to have a steadier horse on the outside... Upsets car drivers because we're not letting them past apparently. Even if it's for the cars safety to prevent the inside, younger horse getting spooked and kicking out.

And if you do the new driving theory exam, it states to slow down and keep watching the horse for a reaction. It doesn't take a genius to recognize an animal in distress. (adding on - however that is a tad.. Well, given the state of youths who drive today, and speed around and actually don't know anything about life other than fast cars and smoking/drinking till their face is blue, kinda shows what people are like these days!) And most of the time the rider will give the signal to slow down if they can actually get their hands off the reins.
As for turning off your engine, it's common courtesy more than having to do it. Much like me pulling my horse into a layby or inbetween parked cars, to let traffic past. I don't have to do it. But i do because it's safer. And like said, if you notice the horse is upset, usually by legs flying everywhere and going sideways, or sudden bolting off, it's pretty obvious something has upset the horse.

And leading can be just as dangerous as riding. I've known some horses who are safer to ride out on roads than lead. But then i suppose it's vice versa for some horses. You do whatever is safest for you really. But that doesn't mean that horses should not be on the roads. As if that's the case, my horse would be a field/stable ornament. :\


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> Horses shouldnt be on the road, thats obvious, they are skittish, and riders cant predict a horses every move, and certainly cant stop one doing whatever half a tonne of meat,bone and muscle will do, keep em in fields, move em in transporters
> 
> *i dont drive in fields, they shouldnt ride on roads*
> 
> then theres cyclists, who should all be banned basically


People with four wheel drives drive in fields, and most of them really are displaying their wealth. What you going to do about them?


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

RachJeremy said:


> He must of been rather close if the horse managed to hit his car.. Not going to lie. 6ft is roughly how far they can kick out really. And 6ft is far too close to be to a horse that is freaking out. The best thing he could have done as soon as he knew the horse wasn't happy was to slow down and keep back.
> 
> You've got to bear in mind, when you 'bring on' a young horse, you have to take them out on the road. No young horse will automatically be used to a road and cars. And just like any other animal they can on occasion throw a paddy or find something too scary for their own good. All they need is patience and distance from the cars.
> 
> But i always stand by the fact if your car gets kicked. You're too close.


Erm no the horse which was riderless at the time skitted backwards down the road until it touched the front corner of his car it then span round and kicked his door, he was about 20 foot behind the horse and was just moving into the middle of the road to pass her, so maybe you should change your stance on cars getting kicked maybe 

edited to add, the woman who had been on the said horse after she regained control of it indicated to my husband to pull into her yard and then proceeded to apologise and pay for the damage, so she admitted she was at fault.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

labradrk said:


> I'm really not a horse person in any way, shape or form. Yes truthfully I do find them annoying on roads, but no more annoying bikes (especially the idiots that ride in a large group making it impossible to pass), mopeds, *tractors*, people driving dangerously slowly etc. In my perfect world there would be a lane for all things slow moving but of course that isn't ever going to happen.
> 
> Actually thinking about it, bikes annoy me much more simply because I see far more of them.


You get annoyed by people going about their lawful business of producing your food?



RachJeremy said:


> My horse is terrified of motorbikes!!! But if i see one, or hear one, i will stop him somewhere and turn him so he can see them. I actually encourage them to go slow and take their time, so my horse can learn they're not going to gobble him up XD


I used to ride a motorbike and remember a time I encountered a horse on a single-track road, the horse was clearly nervous of my bike, so I pulled over as far as I could and stopped. The horse stopped prancing about but wouldn't come past. I turned the engine off, it still wouldn't move. I took my helmet off and once it realised I was a normal human under there, the rider brought it alongside and we had a chat. As a motorcyclist, I was always very cautious - the thought of being kicked by a scared horse is something to be taken seriously.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> He must of been rather close if the horse managed to hit his car..


Fairly recently I saw an incident where a horse went out of control in the road and came very close to putting a hoof through a van window. That van was parked on the opposite side of the road and a good distance from where the horse first started acting up. It all happened very quickly. You don't have to start that close at all.


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## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

Last week 1 woman was killed and 1 seriously injured as they were riding their horses along a local B road at 5.15pm in the dark.

A car came round a corner and ploughed into them.

Nobody would expect anyone to be riding horses along a country road at that time of night at this time of year.

So sad for all involved.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

That is a sad story, I presume the horses came off badly too.



Colliebarmy said:


> Horses shouldnt be on the road, thats obvious, they are skittish, and riders cant predict a horses every move, and certainly cant stop one doing whatever half a tonne of meat,bone and muscle will do, keep em in fields, move em in transporters
> 
> i dont drive in fields, they shouldnt ride on roads
> 
> *then theres cyclists, who should all be banned basically*


Oooo, popcorn time?? 


RachJeremy said:


> He must of been rather close if the horse managed to hit his car.. Not going to lie. 6ft is roughly how far they can kick out really. And 6ft is far too close to be to a horse that is freaking out. The best thing he could have done as soon as he knew the horse wasn't happy was to slow down and keep back.
> 
> You've got to bear in mind, when you 'bring on' a young horse, you have to take them out on the road. No young horse will automatically be used to a road and cars. And just like any other animal they can on occasion throw a paddy or find something too scary for their own good. All they need is patience and distance from the cars.
> 
> But i always stand by the fact if your car gets kicked. You're too close.


The recent incident I saw involved a horse and rider, horse was spooked (i don't know why) and started jumping about along and aross the road, looked like it was going to land on the bonnet of one car. The cars were a good distance away when the horse kicked off and stayed still till it was under control again. Car drivers aren't always to blame.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

We had a motor cyclist killed and other severely injured last week by a horse although I think it had got loose onto the road.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> People with four wheel drives drive in fields, and most of them really are displaying their wealth. What you going to do about them?


your having a larf, most of the posh 4x4's never get a wheel wet!

they dont call em Chelsea Tractors for nothing

not ONE that comes here gets muddy

these get muddy but dont exude wealth


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

There's never been any issues with horse riders in my town but then we never get people riding their horses on our main road but that's because they simply wouldn't be able to. Very narrow, so much traffic and it would for sure cause problems.

We do get quite a lot of people horse riding on backlanes in the countryside but again there has never been an issue. They always keep tight to the sides of the road and there is usually a lot of signs saying there may be horses about so people are made aware when they are driving. Yes, horses can become frightened but every time I've with my OH in his car and we pass someone on a horse they usually stop and let us pass them. 

Think it's quite rude to say people are showing off their wealth status. Just because you have a horse doesn't necessarily mean you have lots of money, and the same applies to people with land rovers doing off roading so don't know how that can be applied either.

People on cycling bikes can be worse imo. Okay, some people in cars do not look what they are doing but some people do cycle crazy on bikes on roads and I think it's an accident waiting to happen.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

I have ridden & looked after, many different horses over the years in different situations. Mainly hacking out, as I never liked competing much.
I found some horses who were absolutely perfectly bomb proof, in the heaviest traffic, but went totally berserk at the sight of the open space of Dartmoor. Others a bit traffic shy would be bomb proof on the moor. Just occassionally I'd find a horse that was so laid back nothing fazed it no matter where you rode it.
My friend had a green youngster & I'd take the bomb proof but mad on Dartmoor horse out with her. He would stop her spooking & even hold her at the side of the road if she showed any sign of going into traffic. He was marvelous, but I never rode him on open spaces, because being so big & strong I would never have stopped him.
Some horses have to be ridden on roads/lanes to get to a bridleway, as many have stated before me.
Horses were transport long before vehicles were invented. They should & by law, be given the respect due to them, by vehicle drivers.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> They should & by law, be given the respect due to them, by vehicle drivers.


I have no problem with that. I do have a bit of a problem with the assumption that any issue is always the fault of a car/driver. It used to be held that the only thing a car driver can do if there's a horse out of control is to turn off their engine and hold the keys out of the window to prove it wasn't their fault. Having seen how a situation can evolve I'd be more inclined now to get out of the vicinity asap. To see how close a hoof was to going through a side window of a parked vehicle shook me a bit.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I have no problem with them on the roads as long as they don't ride in two's and they respect drivers and other road users, after all respect should be both ways.

What really gets me is when they are on pavements, I know you can't pick up after horses but the amount of poo they leave on pavements really annoys me.


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## Jenna500 (May 27, 2012)

I haven't read all the thread but that letter has made me so mad I just have to respond before I go out - so apologies if this has been said already.

Why would I, as a horse rider, choose to ride on the roads, putting myself and my horse in constant danger, worrying about what might be coming around the next bend, having to deal with people like that letter writer, if I had a CHOICE to ride down some lovely bridle path or in a field, enjoying the countryside and peace and quiet. 

Horse riders don't WANT to ride on the roads, they HAVE to, because there aren't enough alternatives, unless you live in the New Forest or on Exmoor or something.

Ok rant over, I'm out...


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

lostbear said:


> (I also get peed with people who have dogs on flexi-leads and don't shorten and fix them, allowing their dogs to dart about across pavements, gardens and the roads. *A DOG ON A FLEXI-LEAD IS NOT UNDER CONTROL!!! GET THAT INTO YOUR STUPID HEADS, YOU IDIOTS!*)


I couldn't agree more I hate the BL**DY things, they are one of the biggest hazards on the road.

Sorry off subject. :blush:


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## SarahBee (Jun 2, 2013)

I don't often get annoyed by horses/horse riders but I did last weekend. 

We were out with Lottie (who was on lead because of the number of cyclists out) on a part of the wirral way. There were loads of off lead dogs, small children running about, cyclists, etc. It was very, very busy.

Some absolute idiot was riding along on a horse that was nervous around dogs, when there is a separate bridleway only a few meters to the side of the main path. She kept telling people who had their dog obediently walking to the side of them that their dog should be on a lead.

I honestly wanted to knock her off the horse.

She didn't need to be on the path at all, and if her horse is that bad around strange dogs then the wirral way at 11am on a Sunday is not the place to take him!


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

i'll play devils advocate here,and yes i always use caution when passing horses but......do horse riders pay road tax?


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> I have no problem with them on the roads as long as they don't ride in two's and they respect drivers and other road users, after all respect should be both ways.
> 
> What really gets me is when they are on pavements,* I know you can't pick up after horses* but the amount of poo they leave on pavements really annoys me.


Why can't you pick up after horses?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

delca1 said:


> Why can't you pick up after horses?


*good point! dog owners have to, why not horse owners?*


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> *good point! dog owners have to, why not horse owners?*


when i was a kid i actually saw men come to blows if a horse did one in our street


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Some people still rush out after a horse has 'been' to put it on their gardens, but who would want dog muck on their gardens. Good fertilizer it aint!:biggrin:


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> *good point! dog owners have to, why not horse owners?*


I always assumed it's because the amount a horse poops, that and horses don't really crap on pavements like dogs do. You'll only really find horse poo on country roads and wood, etc, so perhaps it's not seen as an issue because not many people walk country roads???

Not sure tbh


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## itsonlyme (Dec 22, 2012)

Valanita said:


> Some people still rush out after a horse has 'been' to put it on their gardens, but who would want dog muck on their gardens. Good fertilizer it aint!:biggrin:


but who wants to walk in it?


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

delca1 said:


> Why can't you pick up after horses?


Well, how would that work to start with? horses poo as they walk along so you would need to develop eyes in the back of your head. The rider would then need to find somewhere to dismount and tie the horse up. Then how would they pick up the poo? they would have to bring a shovel and black bags which is hardly practical. If they had to stop and dismount every time the horse defecated, they would not get anywhere!

It is not as if horse muck is harmful - in fact it is the opposite.


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## toffee44 (Oct 21, 2011)

Horse poo has been on our roads for century's and no hazardous cause has come to it. It is mainly hay/ grass and washes away quickly. 

Dog poo is very different, it's stinks, it doesn't wash away and it's on the pavements.

If your moaning about walking on horse poo on the road then move to a city/ town. Horses come with countryside. Next you will be expecting farmers to clear mud off the road and to clear up after he has crossed his cows/ sheep over the road. 

If it's horse poo on the pavement then address the council that is not on. 

 you will never get riders to pick up there is no practicality to it.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

itsonlyme said:


> but who wants to walk in it?


Depends what you are wearing on your feet at the time. If you wash it off after it doesn't hurt footwear, but dog muck will ruin most footwear & it's sticky & smells awful, horse muck has a clean smell, because horses are vegetarians.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

horses shouldnt really be on the road, but if you do take them on the road dont whinge about cars or other road users scaring your horse or "trailing" or whatever.. You see trailing, everyone else sees an idiot on a horse holding up traffic.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

toffee44 said:


> Horse poo has been on our roads for century's and no hazardous cause has come to it. It is mainly hay/ grass and washes away quickly.
> 
> Dog poo is very different, it's stinks, it doesn't wash away and it's on the pavements.
> 
> ...


Maybe but it's still not nice when you walk in it and it shouldn't be on pavements anyway, and as for moving we do live on the edge of a town but there are lots of stables round here, so maybe the horsey lot should keep out of the towns. :mad5:


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Well I am sure when people walk in the countryside and woodlands you wear wellies or walking boots. I sure do because there is always the guarantee to walk in animal poo, especially when you're walking through sheep fields, etc. 

I don't get what the issue is with horse poo. It's a rarity to tread in horse poo. I end up accidentally treading in sheep or cow poo more than anything. That's what happens when you walk in the countryside.

But, yeah, totally get people to clean up their horse poo. Just carry a great big bloody shovel and black bag and then try and find the nearest bin. Horse poo doesn't cause any problems. Isn't it quite good actually for fertilisation, the same as cow and chicken poo, etc?

Now dog poo, that's different.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> Maybe but it's still not nice when you walk in it and it shouldn't be on pavements anyway, and as for moving we do live on the edge of a town but there are lots of stables round here, so maybe the horsey lot should keep out of the towns. :mad5:


Ah, then I guess I do get your point. We don't get many people riding their horse in overbuilt areas so there is no issue with horse poop on pavements. Just thought people were peeved off about horse poo on country lanes and such more than anything.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

toffee44 said:


> Horse poo has been on our roads for century's and no hazardous cause has come to it. It is mainly hay/ grass and washes away quickly.
> 
> Dog poo is very different, it's stinks, it doesn't wash away and it's on the pavements.
> 
> ...


why shouldnt farmers have to clean up after theyve let their animals make a mess? Why shouldnt horse owners have to pick up the crap if dog owners must?? Cos they think they can do what they bloody like thats the problem with country folk.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Happy Paws said:


> Maybe but it's still not nice when you walk in it and it shouldn't be on pavements anyway, and as for moving we do live on the edge of a town but there are lots of stables round here, so maybe the horsey lot should keep out of the towns. :mad5:


I don't think I have ever seen horse muck on the pavements?? or if I have, I could probably count the number of times on one hand. Dog sh*t on the other hand - if I went outside and walked up and down my road, would probably reach double figures!


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Blackcats said:


> Now dog poo, that's different.


Why is it? they both stink. They can both be used for fertiliser. The main difference i guess is that dogs dont leave bucketfuls of theirs. So somehow horse poo is ok cos theres more of it? dont get that logic at all. But suree if you go on some field somewhere and stand in crap thats your own fault. If its on the roads or pavements it should be cleaned up. Then again horses shouldnt be on the roads or pavements in the first place eh


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

skyblue said:


> i'll play devils advocate here,and yes i always use caution when passing horses but......do horse riders pay road tax?


No and neither do cyclists. 

By law, they don't have to.

I believe that road tax was originally collected primarily to fund the creation and maintenance of roads.

As tarmac roads are created to enable cars and lorries to get about, and horses and bikes do not damage that surface (and would be totally able to travel on the original dirt roads) therefore, why should they pay for them?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

delca1 said:


> Why can't you pick up after horses?


What would you suggest?

Riders carry a bucket and spade in a backpack just in case their horse poos on a road? What does the rider do with the horse while they are picking up the poo?

Really? It's just chewed up grass, which will be washed away by the rain (if it's not picked up by someone local who wants it for their roses.)

It cannot be compared to dog poo or litter IMO.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

porps said:


> why shouldnt farmers have to clean up after theyve let their animals make a mess? Why shouldnt horse owners have to pick up the crap if dog owners must?? Cos they think they can do what they bloody like thats the problem with country folk.


There is NO comparison between dog poo and horse poo. One is a carnivore, the other a vegetarian. One is HARMFUL to people, other animals and the environment, the other is BENEFICIAL to it!


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Valanita said:


> Depends what you are wearing on your feet at the time. If you wash it off after it doesn't hurt footwear, but dog muck will ruin most footwear & it's sticky & smells awful, horse muck has a clean smell, because horses are vegetarians.


yeah, yeah, clean poo, thats right........ lol

5h1t is 5h1t whatever produced it, if i was vegetarian im sure mine would smell of roses........


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

labradrk said:


> There is NO comparison between dog poo and horse poo. One is a carnivore, the other a vegetarian. One is HARMFUL to people, other animals and the environment, the other is BENEFICIAL to it!


beneficial poo......yayyyyyyy


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> What would you suggest?
> 
> Riders carry a bucket and spade in a backpack just in case their horse poos on a road? What does the rider do with the horse while they are picking up the poo?


never heard of a horse nappy?


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

porps said:


> Why is it? they both stink. They can both be used for fertiliser. The main difference i guess is that dogs dont leave bucketfuls of theirs. So somehow horse poo is ok cos theres more of it? dont get that logic at all. But suree if you go on some field somewhere and stand in crap thats your own fault. If its on the roads or pavements it should be cleaned up. Then again horses shouldnt be on the roads or pavements in the first place eh


Edited: Didn't give a clear enough response again.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

porps said:


> Why is it? they both stink. They can both be used for fertiliser. The main difference i guess is that dogs dont leave bucketfuls of theirs. So somehow horse poo is ok cos theres more of it? dont get that logic at all. But suree if you go on some field somewhere and stand in crap thats your own fault. If its on the roads or pavements it should be cleaned up. Then again horses shouldnt be on the roads or pavements in the first place eh


Seriously, how often have to seen a pile of horse poo on the pavement?

I can honestly say in my 53 years I could count possibly 2 occasions, maybe.

I have just walked my dog round the block, and passed at least 10 piles of dog poo (I am stalking the perpetrator btw and will report them to the council once identified ).

There really is NO comparison.

If you see a pile of horse poo on the pavement (it's too big to miss) simply step over it or go round it :frown2:


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

porps said:


> Why is it? they both stink. They can both be used for fertiliser. The main difference i guess is that dogs dont leave bucketfuls of theirs. So somehow horse poo is ok cos theres more of it? dont get that logic at all. But suree if you go on some field somewhere and stand in crap thats your own fault. If its on the roads or pavements it should be cleaned up. Then again horses shouldnt be on the roads or pavements in the first place eh


I don't get what you're saying to be honest. There is more dog poo on the pavements than horse poo. Think once I have seen horse poo on a pavement around a built up area. Horse poo is in great amounts, easy to spot and avoid. Dog poo however isn't and I tread in that all the time because people won't clean up after their dogs.

More of an issue with dog owners who are too bone idle to clean their dog's mess up than horse poo which is on pavements once in a blue moon.

If it's different where you live and you have more horse poo than dog poo on your pavements fair enough. Do you?


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> Seriously, how often have to seen a pile of horse poo on the pavement?


often enough to find it disgusting.



Lurcherlad said:


> I can honestly say in my 53 years I could count possibly 2 occasions, maybe.
> 
> I have just walked my dog round the block, and passed at least 10 piles of dog poo (I am stalking the perpetrator btw and will report them to the council once identified ).
> 
> ...


There is a comparison, wether you deny it or not. Both are poo. Does something become automatically ok in your mind just because it's rare?

"oh it doesnt happen often so it's fine" is what your basically saying

People dont often poo into letterboxes.. does that mean that is fine too?

If you see a dog poo, simply step over it, it's small enough to do so.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> never heard of a horse nappy?


Predictable


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Blackcats said:


> I don't get what you're saying to be honest. There is more dog poo on the pavements than horse poo. Think once I have seen horse poo on a pavement around a built up area. Horse poo is in great amounts, easy to spot and avoid. Dog poo however isn't and I tread in that all the time because people won't clean up after their dogs.
> 
> More of an issue with dog owners who are too bone idle to clean their dog's mess up than horse poo which is on pavements once in a blue moon.
> 
> If it's different where you live and you have more horse poo than dog poo on your pavements fair enough. Do you?


what im saying is "if people are to be expected to clean their animals mess, it should apply to all people and all animals"

Is that really so difficult to understand?

If horse poo on pavements and roads is so rare then it shouldnt be a problem for horse owners to clean up after themselves, i mean it's not like they will be doing it often, its rare apparently.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

From my own perspective yes it is because we don't have this sort of issue where I live.

Other people may do so I guess it's all a different of opinion on the matter.


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

I don't mind horses on the road, but a lot I have seen seem to think they own the road and will hold up traffic.
If you need to go on the road with a horse you can't then moan about cars on the road, who have paid their road tax and have every right to be there.

I do get annoyed with cyclists however, but thats another topic


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Blackcats said:


> From my own perspective yes it is because we don't have this sort of issue where I live.
> 
> Other people may do so I guess it's all a different of opinion on the matter.


but do you really think that just because something is uncommon, or less common than something else (in this case dog poo) that makes it ok?

(cos i can come up with a hundred uncommon things that you wont agree with, no problem)


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

porps said:


> what im saying is "if people are to be expected to clean their animals mess, it should apply to all people and all animals"


Do you think cat owners who allow their cats outside unsupervised should have to clean up their cats poo?

FWIW Im finding the whole poo discussion fascinating 
My dogs go in the woods, I dont pick it up. The only time I pick up dog poop is when it happens in public areas, but I notice none of the deer or bunnies or geese pick up theirs, and geese poop on soccer fields is pretty gross...


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

porps said:


> why shouldnt farmers have to clean up after theyve let their animals make a mess? Why shouldnt horse owners have to pick up the crap if dog owners must?? Cos they think they can do what they bloody like thats the problem with country folk.


This has to be a joke? I cannot believe anybody seriously thinks like this...


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

porps said:


> but do you really think that just because something is uncommon, or less common than something else (in this case dog poo) that makes it ok?


Tbh Porps until reading this thread and when poo came into it I never gave it a thought, that's perhaps because I've never trodden in horse poo in a common walking place.

Not many people walk on country lanes where horse poo is frequently found and when they do it is usually walkers moving from a field, walking up the country road to get through another field. They all wear walking boots and wellies and the fields they walk through are covered in sheep and cow poo anyway.

I am sure if it was such a nuisance people would complain a lot.

That is your opinion and I respect that but what would you suggest people do for cleaning up horse poo on country lanes? No bins around or anything. And, yes, these horse riders are entitled to go on these roads. A lot do it to get from one field to another because they're not situated next to each other. They have no choice.

I think perhaps I would change my opinion if suddenly there was a frequency of horse riding around the area I live in and then there was a lot of horse poo.

For now though...


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Do you think cat owners who allow their cats outside unsupervised should have to clean up their cats poo?


if we are to expect dog owners to pick up after their dogs then yes, logically we should expect all animal owners to pick up after their respective animals if they mess in a public area.. i dont know how practical it would be for roaming cats, but as far as i am aware most horses dont roam the roads alone.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

My cat goes out but how would I know where to clean her mess. Our gardens are huge so do I stay with her for hours and follow her everywhere to ensure I can scoop up her poo?


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Blackcats said:


> My cat goes out but how would I know where to clean her mess. Our gardens are huge so do I stay with her for hours and follow her everywhere to ensure I can scoop up her poo?


you wouldnt. but like i said, thats not an excuse that works for horses


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> yeah, yeah, clean poo, thats right........ lol
> 
> 5h1t is 5h1t whatever produced it, *if i was vegetarian im sure mine would smell of roses..*......


Well, unless you ate roses as part of a vegetarian diet, I doubt your poo would smell of them. But you wouldn't poop on a road anyway.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Horses have to be on roads nowadays because there's so many of them (roads, that is). For example, I shared a horse once. One bridle path I went on I had to cross a big main road to get to, and that was the only decent off road riding in the area (next to Ogden Reservoir, nr Halifax) other than that, if I wanted a quicker ride, I would have to ride a circular road route just to be able to ride her, seeing I had no menage and the nearest one I would have to hire.
I used common sense and rode as close to the left as I could, I didn't ride on the pavements and thanked a car when he let me turn right in front of him.
As for horse poo, if I happen to stand in some its just a quick hose down of the boots compared to dog poo that you have to get every single bit off otherwise it stinks in the car.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

porps said:


> if we are to expect dog owners to pick up after their dogs then yes, logically we should expect all animal owners to pick up after their respective animals if they mess in a public area.. i dont know how practical it would be for roaming cats, but as far as i am aware most horses dont roam the roads alone.


It would probably be less practical for a rider to pick up after their animal than it would a cat owner. How do you propose they do it? Dismount in the middle of the road?


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

lennythecloud said:


> This has to be a joke? I cannot believe anybody seriously thinks like this...


i guess it was easier for you to type that than actually answer the questions i posed.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

lennythecloud said:


> It would probably be less practical for a rider to pick up after their animal than it would a cat owner. How do you propose they do it? Dismount in the middle of the road?


not in the middle no, that would be stupid.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

porps said:


> you wouldnt. but like i said, thats not an excuse that works for horses


Well yeah because a horse stays close to you or you're situated on it but why should the horse owner clean the poo on a country lane? What harm is it causing? Not many people walk on a countrylane. Pavements are different because people walk on them all the time.

Obviously if you're riding your horse in a built up areas then perhaps so but how would you manage to do that?

Kind of mentioned this in the above post when I responded to you.


----------



## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

porps said:


> if we are to expect dog owners to pick up after their dogs then yes, logically we should expect all animal owners to pick up after their respective animals if they mess in a public area..* i dont know how practical it would be for roaming cats,* but as far as i am aware most horses dont roam the roads alone.


Right... and how practical would poop scooping be for horse riders. If were going to use the practicality excuse, it should apply equally IMO.

I sort of understand the dog poop legislation you all have over there in the UK. Dogs are numerous, theyre everywhere, and if everyone let their dog poop wherever and didnt clean it up it would cause a huge mess. 
To me, cats are a similar issue. They are every bit as numerous as dogs, get in to as many public areas, and left to their own devices, you end up with a lot of poop in public places like under the swings at the local park or in your flowerbeds.

Horses are not as numerous for one. They generally dont wander in to peoples gardens or the local soccer field. Most of their poop happens in contained areas already designated for horses - pastures and barns.

Personally Id rather see a cat poop clean up crusade than a horse one 

As for horses on the road, I think a little common courtesy on both parts would go a long way....


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

porps said:


> Why is it? they both stink. *They can both be used for fertiliser.* The main difference i guess is that dogs dont leave bucketfuls of theirs. So somehow horse poo is ok cos theres more of it? dont get that logic at all. But suree if you go on some field somewhere and stand in crap thats your own fault. If its on the roads or pavements it should be cleaned up. Then again horses shouldnt be on the roads or pavements in the first place eh


Errr.....I'm pretty sure you can't use dog sh*t as fertilizer. I don't see tons of gardeners lining up to scrape sloppy orange piles of dog sh*t off the pavement to use in their gardens. Horse muck on the other hand, people actually PAY for *gasp*


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

lennythecloud said:


> It would probably be less practical for a rider to pick up after their animal than it would a cat owner. How do you propose they do it? Dismount in the middle of the road?


i wouldn't expect any horse rider to dismount and clean up after their horse , not just from a safety perspective , how would would they be expected to clear it up anyway , black bag and shovel ?  how impractical.
we do see a little on pavements around this way due to living close to a country park where riders frequent , it does not bother me , never heard anyone else complain either , it's usually gone after a couple of days anyhoos


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

Valanita said:


> Well, unless you ate roses as part of a vegetarian diet, I doubt your poo would smell of them. *But you wouldn't poop on a road anyway.*


One would hope


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

porps said:


> i guess it was easier for you to type that than actually answer the questions i posed.


Because the points are so ludicrous I'm genuinely not sure that you're serious.



porps said:


> not in the middle no, that would be stupid.


Ok, now I'm convinced you're not being serious. What you propose is jumping of a horse in front of traffic, having minimal control over said horse whilst you pick up, holding up anyone behind you and then attempting to remount on a public highway? That would put lives at risk. All because you want the road to look nice? It's just not a sane suggestion...


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Blackcats said:


> Well yeah because a horse stays close to you or you're situated on it but why should the horse owner clean the poo on a country lane? What harm is it causing? Not many people walk on a countrylane. Pavements are different because people walk on them all the time.
> 
> Obviously if you're riding your horse in a built up areas then perhaps so but how would you manage to do that?
> 
> Kind of mentioned this in the above post when I responded to you.


I believe in places like London where they have ceremonial horse parades, with lots of horses, there is a man who actually does pick up the horse poo.

This possibly answers the question....
How come you dont have to pick horse poo up from the street, yet if my dog does one, i have to pick it up? - Yahoo Answers


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Blackcats said:


> Well yeah because a horse stays close to you or you're situated on it but why should the horse owner clean the poo on a country lane? What harm is it causing? Not many people walk on a countrylane. Pavements are different because people walk on them all the time.


When a biker hits a pile of horse poo on a road it has the potential to be extremely harmful. Yknow, those bikers who actually pay road tax...



Blackcats said:


> Obviously if you're riding your horse in a built up areas then perhaps so but how would you manage to do that?
> 
> Kind of mentioned this in the above post when I responded to you.


How would you manage to do it? Well i assume that a horse could bear the load of a shovel and bin bag.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

labradrk said:


> *I don't think I have ever seen horse muck on the pavements??* or if I have, I could probably count the number of times on one hand. Dog sh*t on the other hand - if I went outside and walked up and down my road, would probably reach double figures!


Lucky you, you should be here in the summer when a couple riders decide to stop outside a friends house for a chat.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

lennythecloud said:


> Because the points are so ludicrous I'm genuinely not sure that you're serious.


they werent points, they were questions, which you have still failed to answer.



lennythecloud said:


> Ok, now I'm convinced you're not being serious. What you propose is jumping of a horse in front of traffic, having minimal control over said horse whilst you pick up, holding up anyone behind you and then attempting to remount on a public highway? That would put lives at risk. All because you want the road to look nice? It's just not a sane suggestion...


I never once proposed jumping off the horse IN FRONT OF TRAFFIC. Stop trying to twist me words. And if you have minimal control over the horse it shouldnt be on the road.

As i have already pointed out, crap on the roads already puts lives at risk. But you seem quite happy putting others lives at risk so long as you dont have to pick up after your animal. And if you really gave a damn about holding up traffic, you wouldnt be on the road with a horse.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

slaps forehead and goes for a lie down in a darkened room ..........


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

porps said:


> When a biker hits a pile of horse poo on a road it has the potential to be extremely harmful. Yknow, those bikers who actually pay road tax...
> 
> How would you manage to do it? Well i assume that a horse could bear the load of a shovel and bin bag.


And how many accidents actually happens from driving/riding over horse poo? I'm not on about accidents by horses, but horse poo.

Well perhaps if more people complained or started a legislation (If that's the right term) then something could be done.

You have to clean up dog poo on pavements because many people have dogs and walk dogs on pavements where many people walk. That would be a lot of poo if not cleaned up.

Horse poo is hardly a problem in my own opinion.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

skyblue said:


> i'll play devils advocate here,and yes i always use caution when passing horses but......do horse riders pay road tax?


No. Neither do cyclists, invalid carriages or classic/vintage cars. Lots of things allowed on the road don't pay road tax, including joggers.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I'd rather be more concerned with idiot drivers who are extremely dangerous on the road causing serious accidents than people on horse and horse poo.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Oh good grief, some people will be demanding farmers clean up after their livestock after they've been on the roads, or across public footpaths!!


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Oh good grief, some people will be demanding farmers clean up after their livestock after they've been on the roads, or across public footpaths!!


indeed. i asked earlier - why shouldnt they? still havent got a reply.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

As a (motor) biker, cyclist, walker and car driver I think it's down to respecting the road no matter what transport we take but yes, horse poo in the road can be dangerous. But there are lots of things we bikers can't control like pheasants, rabbits and, in the case of my father in law, a lose dog that he sliced in half whilst on his motorbike and the accident left him brain damaged for the rest of his life. You do your best to read the road.

I think horses ought to use appropriate bridles as where provided, like cyclists need to use cycle ways (in Cambridge it's baffling how many chose not to). But I've had a horse right off a car where it was spooked, not by my driving but by a bird scarer but it took a court case to get the rider to confess the horse was easily jumpy. Im glad it was the car and I wasn't on my bike!


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

porps said:


> indeed. i asked earlier - why shouldnt they? still havent got a reply.


You got loads of replies? did you not read the thread?


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Farmers have no choice but to use roads these days as they probably have to use fields 2 or 3 miles away just to feed the population. Yes, I come across them between Brighouse and Huddersfield (west yorkshire) but I don't complain (apart from one I passed in a hurry the other day because he had mud flying out sideways.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

porps said:


> indeed. i asked earlier - why shouldnt they? still havent got a reply.


Because it's biodegradeable half digested vegetable matter that is harmless. It's part of our whole eco system, some animals depend on poop for their food, breeding etc, all of it has it's place!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

*Just found this via google *

CONSIDER the potential damage from wet mud on the road, says NFU Mutual, which this week revealed in the last three years, claims for deaths and serious injuries caused by mud amounted to £11.5 million.

The rural insurer has warned that, as winter approaches, extra care is needed to ensure mud is not left on the highway by tractors, trailers, harvesters and other vehicles.

NFU Mutuals John Kenny says it is very often driver error or excess speed which cause accidents from skidding on mud, but it is far better to avoid the risk.

While most farmers are keenly aware of the risks associated with mud on roads, there is still some confusion about the law in this area, and farmers responsibilities to other road users, he says.

Mr Kenny points out that depositing mud on the road is an offence under the Highways Act.

It is the legal responsibility of the farmer to ensure every precaution is taken to avoid any mud being carried off the field, he says. Accepting that in cultivating and harvesting operations, some mud will inevitably end up on the road, it is important to make arrangements to remove it immediately.

If mud is left on the roads, warning signs should always be used to alert motorists to the potential hazard.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

porps said:


> I never once proposed jumping off the horse IN FRONT OF TRAFFIC. Stop trying to twist me words.


If you're riding on the road you are in front of traffic. This is the reason most driver go around you rather than through you..



> And if you have minimal control over the horse it shouldnt be on the road.


When I'm on top of an animal trained to leg and rein aids then I have more than minimal control. If I was off said animal trying to handle a shovel, plastic bag and manure whilst presumably said horse is only attached to me, at any point of my anatomy I have free, by the end of its reins then yes I have minimal control ( which is why nobody does it!)



> As i have already pointed out, crap on the roads already puts lives at risk. But you seem quite happy putting others lives at risk so long as you dont have to pick up after your animal. And if you really gave a damn about holding up traffic, you wouldnt be on the road with a horse.


How many accidents are caused by manure? Most riding accidents occur when mounting, you want people to do it in the road?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> *Just found this via google *
> 
> CONSIDER the potential damage from wet mud on the road, says NFU Mutual, which this week revealed in the last three years, claims for deaths and serious injuries caused by mud amounted to £11.5 million.
> 
> ...


Mud yes, but I wouldn't expect a farmer to walk along with a shovel and dustbin after a herd of dairy cows for example, on their way home to be milked.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Because it's biodegradeable half digested vegetable matter that is harmless. It's part of our whole eco system, some animals depend on poop for their food, breeding etc, all of it has it's place!


it's still gross and i dont think we should be encouraging animals to feed or breed in the road.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

porps said:


> it's still gross and i dont think we should be encouraging animals to feed or breed in the road.


What? I've never seen anyone out horse riding, get off and encourage it to then procreate with another horse? Or seen anyone get off and break out a bale of hay.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Not sure if this has been posted before but here it is anyway.....

https://www.gov.uk/rules-about-animals-47-to-58/horse-riders-49-to-55


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

I have an even better idea. Lets just do away with paved roads period. I mean, the fossil fuels used in motor vehicles and to maintain roads are horribly destructive anyway, lets just do away with all privately owned motor vehicles and all of us use either public transportation, or move ourselves via foot, bicycle, or animal. That would solve a lot of the issues wouldnt it?


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

porps said:


> it's still gross and i dont think we should be encouraging animals to feed or breed in the road.


The last thing on anythings mind when they see me driving down the road is breeding...its more a case of 'ruuunnn like ya knackers are on fire '


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> What? I've never seen anyone out horse riding, get off and encourage it to then procreate with another horse? Or seen anyone get off and break out a bale of hay.


oh come on, surely you know thats not what i meant.

you said "some animals depend on poop for their food, breeding etc, all of it has it's place!"

I said "i dont think we should be encouraging animals to feed or breed in the road"

Even if some animals need it for food or breeding, to force them into a road to collect it surely puts those animals in danger of being hit by a car.

I dunno how much clearer i can be.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Blimey, I just ask as a musing why riders don't clear up after their horses...I'd never thought about it before...and an argument..er debate... erupts!

As it sounds unsafe for a rider to dismount to clear poo from the road maybe legislation should be brought in stating all horse riders should be accompanied by someone not on horseback to clear up the poo






Yes I am joking


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

porps said:


> oh come on, surely you know thats not what i meant.
> 
> you said "some animals depend on poop for their food, breeding etc, all of it has it's place!"
> 
> ...


Erm, bugs rely on this sort of poop, are you seriously suggesting bugs shouldn't eat or breed on a road? I'm not sure it makes any difference where they eat/breed, but they will be actively helping clean up any poop which obviously offends some folk by its presence.

Those bugs then go on to be part of the food chain.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Erm, bugs rely on this sort of poop, are you seriously suggesting bugs shouldn't eat or breed on a road? I'm not sure it makes any difference where they eat/breed, but they will be actively helping clean up any poop which obviously offends some folk by its presence.
> 
> Those bugs then go on to be part of the food chain.


ah ok fair enough. I still think a bug would get crushed by a car but sure, i dont care if it's just a bug. I still dont see why it needs to be on the road to have this benefit


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> What? I've never seen anyone out horse riding, get off and encourage it to then procreate with another horse? Or seen anyone get off and break out a bale of hay.


That did make me laugh. I had an image of a Farrier in attendance to remove the mare's back shoes, the snorting stallion with his stick-wielding handler and the whole thing taking place in the middle of a dual carriageway!


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

The road tax argument is null and void tbh - road tax doesnt pay for road upkeep. General taxation / Council tax does. Road tax is actually vehicle tax reliant on engine size and emissions.

So horse riders have as much right to be on a road as drivers, and cyclists.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

porps said:


> ah ok fair enough. I still think a bug would get crushed by a car but sure, i dont care if it's just a bug. I still dont see why it needs to be on the road to have this benefit


It doesn't *have* to be on a road, but the point is, livestock, horses etc poop when out and about, whether that be on a road, or, sometimes, on a pavement. Since it's vegetable matter, it breaks down quite quickly anyway, but it's also cleaned up by lots of different bugs. And a whole multitude of other bugs, birds and animals rely on bugs as part of their diet.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

there you go folks, next time you cba cleaning up your dogs poo simply claim you're feeding the birds and it makes it ok.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

porps said:


> there you go folks, next time you cba cleaning up your dogs poo simply claim you're feeding the birds and it makes it ok.


Erm, carnivore poop isn't half digested vegetable matter, like the poop you get from horses, cows, sheep etc.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

grumpy goby said:


> The road tax argument is null and void tbh - road tax doesnt pay for road upkeep. General taxation / Council tax does. Road tax is actually vehicle tax reliant on engine size and emissions.
> 
> S*o horse riders have as much right to be on a road as drivers, and cyclists.*


Yes & most horse owners, if responsible, will have insurance for their horses anyway, for accidents & illness etc. That is not cheap.
I wonder how many cyclists actually have insurance?

As an aside....
The pony, belonging to a friend that my daughter used to ride, would deliberately wait for a grass verge or area & take himself onto that to poop, he never did it on the road or lane. My daughter was most surprised the first time he did it.:biggrin:


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Valanita said:


> Yes & most horse owners, if responsible, will have insurance for their horses anyway, for accidents & illness etc. That is not cheap.
> I wonder how many cyclists actually have insurance?


Why is everyone on the road out to snipe each other about who has what right to be there? I dont get it.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Back to the original subject about whether horses should be on roads.
Someone mentioned them on the roads at night in the dark..another musing from me...is this legal or do responsible owners know better than to do this? If legal then are the riders supposed to have some kind of lights so they can be seen or do they count as pedestrians (as in on roads without pavements) who don't have to? 
To be honest I don't think I have ever seen horses out in the dark but have seen plenty of dogwalkers on lanes at night with no lights.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Porps ............. If you can actually tell me how to stop the traffic on a road whilst I dismount, hold a bag in one hand and a shovel in the other, pick up horse poop and then remount a 16 hand horse, whilst holding a heavy bag, I'll give it a go.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Sweety said:


> Porps ............. If you can actually tell me how to stop the traffic on a road whilst I dismount, hold a bag in one hand and a shovel in the other, pick up horse poop and then remount a 16 hand horse, whilst holding a heavy bag, I'll give it a go.


NOTHING would make me attempt it tbh 

I can't think of anything more ridiculous OR dangerous!


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Porps ............. If you can actually tell me how to stop the traffic on a road whilst I dismount, hold a bag in one hand and a shovel in the other, pick up horse poop and then remount a 16 hand horse, whilst holding a heavy bag, I'll give it a go.


dont worry, traffic will be crawling anyway since theyre stuck behind you on your horse, the danger isnt as great as you might think.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Yes & most horse owners, if responsible, will have insurance for their horses anyway


That's a fair point but I honestly think 'most' is probably optimistic. I do find it interesting that this thread has polarised (as many do). All drivers don't treat horses badly, many are considerate. All riders aren't wonderful, many are polite and appreciative of consideration from other road users. I have to admit to being human and the attitude of one rider does affect my attitude to the next. A friendly nod never goes amiss.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

skyblue said:


> when i was a kid i actually saw men come to blows if a horse did one in our street


Same in our street - Blimey! In our street everyone ran out with a shovel if the coal man's horse 'blessed' the cobbles. There were a lot of allotment-owners who would kill for fresh manure.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Valanita said:


> Some people still rush out after a horse has 'been' to put it on their gardens, but who would want dog muck on their gardens. Good fertilizer it aint!:biggrin:


Whoops! You beat me to it, Val!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> NOTHING would make me attempt it tbh
> 
> I can't think of anything more ridiculous OR dangerous!


But think of the fun you could have if you staged it in the middle of a roundabout at rush hour.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

porps said:


> dont worry, traffic will be crawling anyway since theyre stuck behind you on your horse, the danger isnt as great as you might think.


How about traffic coming the other way, potentially round a bend, whilst the horse swings his bum out into the other lane ?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> Maybe but it's still not nice when you walk in it and *it shouldn't be on pavements anyway,* and as for moving we do live on the edge of a town but there are lots of stables round here, so maybe the horsey lot should keep out of the towns. :mad5:


I agree - horses (and cyclists) should keep off the pavements - they are a real nuisance, and speaking as someone who was knocked over when heavily pregnant by an idiot cyclist who came shooting round a corner with no warning, I can confirm that they can be bliddy dangerous, too!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> No and neither do cyclists.
> 
> By law, they don't have to.
> 
> ...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

And we know how much of it goes on THAT!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> yeah, yeah, clean poo, thats right........ lol
> 
> 5h1t is 5h1t whatever produced it, *if i was vegetarian im sure mine would smell of roses...*.....


I was vegetarian for many years, and mine didn't smell at all (honesttogod, and I would think other vegetarians on here could confirm that about themselves) It wouldn't have been any more pleasant to step in, though.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> never heard of a horse nappy?


I've seen these in Belgium and Italy.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

This thread is getting a tad ridiculous now  Good for the entertainment value though


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## Jenna500 (May 27, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> This thread is getting a tad ridiculous now  Good for the entertainment value though


Yep, haven't laughed so much in ages!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> Seriously, *how often have to seen a pile of horse poo on the pavement?*
> Frequently round here, unfortunately
> 
> I can honestly say in my 53 years I could count possibly 2 occasions, maybe.
> ...


But if you have a buggy, or are in a wheelchair, or are blind, you don't have that option.

No horses on the pavement, full stop.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lostbear said:


> I was vegetarian for many years, and mine didn't smell at all (honesttogod, and I would think other vegetarians on here could confirm that about themselves) It wouldn't have been any more pleasant to step in, though.


Gulp - must be something wrong with me then


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Do you think cat owners who allow their cats outside unsupervised should have to clean up their cats poo?
> 
> FWIW Im finding the whole poo discussion fascinating
> *My dogs go in the woods, I dont pick it up*. The only time I pick up dog poop is when it happens in public areas, but I notice none of the deer or bunnies or geese pick up theirs, and geese poop on soccer fields is pretty gross...


I pick up EVERYWHERE.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

lostbear said:


> But if you have a buggy, or are in a wheelchair, or are blind, you don't have that option.
> 
> No horses on the pavement, full stop.


Wait, I thought we were talking about roads - where cars drive? Youre putting blind and wheelchair bound people on the road?
So confused LOL!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

delca1 said:


> Back to the original subject about whether horses should be on roads.
> *Someone mentioned them on the roads at night in the dark..another musing from me...is this legal or do responsible owners know better than to do this? If legal then are the riders supposed to have some kind of lights so they can be seen or do they count as pedestrians (as in on roads without pavements) who don't have to? *
> 
> 
> ...


Strictly speaking, they should wear reflective clothing - but most don't (same can be said of many cyclists - and yet if they cause an accident, they can sue the car driver . . . ) :


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

ouesi said:


> Wait, I thought we were talking about roads - where cars drive? Youre putting blind and wheelchair bound people on the road?
> So confused LOL!


Pavement in the UK is the sidewalk


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Wait, I thought we were talking about roads - where cars drive? Youre putting blind and wheelchair bound people on the road?
> So confused LOL!


We've veered onto the pavement. Stay awake! :biggrin:


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

lymorelynn said:


> Pavement in the UK is the sidewalk


Okay that does help, but I still am very confused. I thought we were talking about cars and horses, and assuming cars dont drive on sidewalks, we were talking about cars and horses sharing the road yes? From there we got sidetracked to poop and poop in the road. So I though the issue was poop in the road not poop on sidewalks. 

And if we dont want horses on the sidewalks, then where should they go? The road is the only option left.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

lostbear said:


> Strictly speaking, they should wear reflective clothing - but most don't (same can be said of many cyclists - and yet if they cause an accident, they can sue the car driver . . . ) :


Maybe it is a location thing but around here (surrey/sussex countryside) and in London its pretty common for cyclists to have good lights front and back, a hi-vis on. Morning commuters usually have very strong lights, hi vis backpack things and visability jackets. Maybe cos there are no streetlights for the most part and youd end up in a ditch without lights..

Cant say I see any horses out after dark though.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Okay that does help, but I still am very confused. I thought we were talking about cars and horses, and assuming cars dont drive on sidewalks, we were talking about cars and horses sharing the road yes? From there we got sidetracked to poop and poop in the road. So I though the issue was poop in the road not poop on sidewalks.
> 
> *And if we dont want horses on the sidewalks, then where should they go? The road is the only option left*.


Aha, the thread has gone full circle!!

(Ouesi, look at the link in the first post )


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

lostbear said:


> We've veered onto the pavement. Stay awake! :biggrin:


Im trying!! Im still stuck on the animals feeding and mating in the middle of the road


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

delca1 said:


> Aha, the thread has gone full circle!!
> 
> (Ouesi, look at the link in the first post )


Yeah, I dont know what a bridleway is or how its different than a pavement


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Im trying!! Im still stuck on the animals feeding and mating in the middle of the road


Oh, the mating has already taken place and the mare is already heavily in foal.

The stallion is still being ridden along the pavement, (sidewalk), producing half a ton of poop as he goes. :biggrin:


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Horses were around and our only form of transport before cars, imo they do have a right to use the road and other road users should afford them the courtesy of giving the horse and rider plenty of room and wait for the rider to signal when it is safe for a driver to overtake, if that doesn't happen because of road conditions, traffic or the horse isn't fully under control then so be it.

I find a lot of drivers are too impatient and have no consideration for the fact that a horse isn't a mechanical vehicle but an unpredictable live animal with a vulnerable rider.

What about cows when they are driven (walked) from the fields along the roads for milking. 

imo Roads are there for the use and enjoyment of all road users not just motorists.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Yeah, I don't know what a bridleway is or how it's different than a "pavement"


Bridleway









pavement is your sidewalk..


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Crying with laughter here.:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Yeah, I dont know what a bridleway is or how its different than a pavement


Paths/trails where horses are allowed to be ridden. Pavements = sidewalks.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Oh, the mating has already taken place and the mare is already heavily in foal.
> 
> The stallion is still being ridden along the pavement, (sidewalk), producing half a ton of poop as he goes. :biggrin:


and Porps is there issuing penalty tickets for allowing a horse to soil a public highway 

and Bordie is there bagging it up and flogging it at £5 a bag :biggrin:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't ride very often any more but am very fortunate to be able to ride in the New Forest without having to do any road work apart from occasionally crossing a road. Drivers around here are generally very considerate as are most riders.
When I learnt to ride as a child and young teenager I lived in the Midlands and did ride on the roads, though there was a lot less traffic then I'm sure and it was mainly on quiet country lanes. It was the only way to get to any bridleways or open land and I assume it still is for a great many riders - all very well to suggest that horses and riders should be kept off the busy roads but there is no viable alternative for them.
As for the poo in the road - it's biodegradable and really does no harm other than to perhaps look unsightly. The idea of trying dismount and clean it up is really impractical and dangerous too.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2014)

grumpy goby said:


> Bridleway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay lets see if I have this straight:
road = road - paved and accessible to motor vehicles.
pavement/footpath = sidewalk for foot traffic, not cyclists, not horses
bridleway = trail/path/dirt road? How do you get to a bridleway? Is there some magical portal to them or do you have to access them from a road?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

ouesi said:


> Okay lets see if I have this straight:
> road = road - paved and accessible to motor vehicles.
> pavement/footpath = sidewalk for foot traffic, not cyclists, not horses
> bridleway = trail/path/dirt road? How do you get to a bridleway? * Is there some magical portal to them or do you have to access them from a road?*


there you have the crux of the problem


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

lymorelynn said:


> I don't ride very often any more but am very fortunate to be able to ride in the New Forest without having to do any road work apart from occasionally crossing a road. Drivers around here are generally very considerate as are most riders.
> When I learnt to ride as a child and young teenager I lived in the Midlands and did ride on the roads, though there was a lot less traffic then I'm sure and it was mainly on quiet country lanes. It was the only way to get to any bridleways or open land and I assume it still is for a great many riders - all very well to suggest that horses and riders should be kept off the busy roads but there is no viable alternative for them.
> As for the poo in the road - it's biodegradable and really does no harm other than to perhaps look unsightly. The idea of trying dismount and clean it up is really impractical and dangerous too.


When coal man or rag and bone man came round streets on horse and cart my granddad used to send kids (mum and siblings) out with a bucket and spade. Mum said she hated it, a horse could go miles before it dumped its load then they had to carry the bucket back - ee by gum them were days.

These stories really crack me up. Mum often used to say, children today don't know they've been born. :biggrin:


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Okay let's see if I have this straight:
> road = road - paved and accessible to motor vehicles.
> pavement/footpath = sidewalk for foot traffic, not cyclists, not horses
> bridleway = trail/path/dirt road? How do you get to a bridleway? Is there some magical portal to them or do you have to access them from a road?


You have to knock 4 times on the old oak tree, spin twice anti clockwise and request permission from the woodland god Satyr (in the appropriate greek tongue ofc) to pass... then the bridleway is opened up to you.

Or you just get on it via the road.

Either or. The latter is quicker.


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## R6LPW (Jan 24, 2014)

I used to ride years ago and I have a bicycle. I live on the edge of the New Forest. Who are all these people who are 'annoyed' at cyclists and riders? There are good and bad bicycle riders - the same with motorists. So many ponies are killed in the New Forest every month due to the stupidity of motorists.
As for horses/riders - how are they supposed to get to bridle paths? Sprout wings?


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

:lol::lol::lol: 
there's no other way, we'll have to start breeding pegasus


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> there's no other way, we'll have to start breeding pegasus


I think the horse poo complaints might rise in this case....

I better buy a stronger umbrella.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Eh, good target way to bomb people with it that you don't like.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm trying to come to terms with the images that have been conjured up this afternoon, if some of the posts on this thread are to be believed.

Pavements heaped up with horse poop. Poor blind people sprawling on the ground, helpless infants marooned in their prams and pushchairs whilst their poor Parents, apparently, have no choice but to go on without them.

By my reckoning, we would have to keep our horses in a permanent state of panic to achieve this scenario. :biggrin::biggrin:


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

porps said:


> When a biker hits a pile of horse poo on a road it has the potential to be extremely harmful. Yknow, those bikers who actually pay road tax...
> 
> How would you manage to do it? Well i assume that a horse could bear the load of a shovel and bin bag.


I also pay road tax and ride, shock horror. Should I seriously get off (my 17'2 Hanoverian) then what? Lead him home cos there's no way on God's earth I can get back on again the huge beast without the mounting block?! I think you are not reasonable.

I was horrified to read about a forum 'friend' who was knocked off her horse last week by a speeding driver. She has several open fractures and the horse had to be put to sleep, all because the driver had zero consideration and couldn't slow down for two seconds to pass her safely. Breaks my heart. 

Goes off to read thread properly.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Wiz201 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> there's no other way, we'll have to start breeding pegasus


I want one!:biggrin:
The poop would be scattered to the winds, or he/she could be trained to only 'go' over the sea or into a wide river.:biggrin:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

porps said:


> When a biker hits a pile of horse poo on a road it has the potential to be extremely harmful. Yknow, those bikers who actually pay road tax...


Just noticed this, I have a full bike licence, although I don't have a bike at the moment, I don't know one biker who has hit horse poop and had a problem.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Valanita said:


> I want one!:biggrin:
> The poop would be scattered to the winds, or he/she could be trained to only 'go' over the sea or into a wide river.:biggrin:


Another thing, if you had one you'd win every jumping class so easily too.:biggrin:


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> Thank you for the red rep Burrowzig, other people can have an opinion you know
> 
> enjoy your red rep BTW


So you give red rep out of spite? Pathetic.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> I also pay road tax and ride, shock horror. Should I seriously get off (my 17'2 Hanoverian) then what? Lead him home cos there's no way on God's earth I can get back on again the huge beast without the mounting block?! I think you are not reasonable.
> 
> I was horrified to read about a forum 'friend' who was knocked off her horse last week by a speeding driver. She has several open fractures and the horse had to be put to sleep, all because the driver had zero consideration and couldn't slow down for two seconds to pass her safely. Breaks my heart.
> 
> Goes off to read thread properly.


Obviously not liking the second part of your post - rather your first paragraph.

Just taking a few seconds to slow down and pass a horse safely would have avoided the accident - so sad.

Even the most bombproof horse can suddenly react to something - even if the driver couldn't care less about the horse (shame on them :mad5, what about the human being on top?

I knew someone who experienced a similar thing, she ended up in a wheelchair for life and the horse was pts - all for the sake of a few seconds delay to a car driver's journey.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

I hate seeing horses on the road, but only because I am so scared of scaring them - I get on the other side of the road and _crawl_ past them, the riders are probably thinking 'OMG, just get on with it' :lol:


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

My only issue with them on the roads is that they can spook easily and cause a huge danger. We came across one not long ago, no cars around but it was playing up in the middle of the road. Despite being a fair distance away it did make me nervous for the rider and ourselves. I will always slow down and give them a wide berth as to not spook them. It is common courtesy but I also give cyclists a fair amount of room too as I dont want them to swerve into me. 

It is frustrating to be held up when you are in a hurry but ifwe gave ourselves extra time we could be more relaxed about hold ups (traffic, level crossings, tractors, cyclists, horses, wide loads) I am guilty of leaving at the last minute but after writing this I might make an effort to leave earlier so I dont get that frustrating "im going to be late and it is all xyz fault" (insert option from above as appropriate. 

As for horse poo, doesn't bother me unless it is on the pavement. Living in the country and walking up country lanes meant I frequently came across it but it was usually just grass unless it was fresh. Never stood in it in the years I lived there yet I have stood in dog poo. Cat poo isn't exactly pleasant either. Picking up after a horse and free roaming cats are impractical. If a cat was being walked and did a poo then I would expect it to be cleared up. However dogs and cats do smaller easier to manage poos and being smaller in size are easier to control whilst picking the poo up. 

I dont ride, never have and will be unlikely to own a horse.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Lurcherlad, the flatbed truck hit the horse, the rider was thrown by the force of the truck hitting her horse. 



Colliebarmy said:


> *good point! dog owners have to, why not horse owners?*


Cos dog poo can contain toxoplasma gondii, which can cause blindness and serious illness. Horse poo does not. This, apart from the sheer horror of stepping in dog sh!t, is why horses can merrily poo wherever they choose and no, you wouldn't notice a horse pooing necessarily. Oddly, they don't do the circle, sniff, crouch thing that dogs do. 



Happy Paws said:


> Maybe but it's still not nice when you walk in it and it shouldn't be on pavements anyway, and as for moving we do live on the edge of a town but there are lots of stables round here, so maybe the horsey lot should keep out of the towns. :mad5:


OMG. Facepalm.



porps said:


> why shouldnt farmers have to clean up after theyve let their animals make a mess? Why shouldnt horse owners have to pick up the crap if dog owners must?? Cos they think they can do what they bloody like thats the problem with country folk.


Wow, just wow!

It would be useful for those drivers who get annoyed at horses to remember that they are not robots. They may be 'bombproof' on the road, but when some wan.... persistently revs the engine, it makes the rider and therefore the horse nervous. A friend had some chav on his moped try to scare her whilst riding. He succeeded. He persisted so long and wouldn't stop so the horse threw his rider over a garden wall. She broke lots of things and lost consciousness. Where was the need? :mad5:

For what it's worth, I live in a very urban area. I'm not 'country folk', rather city born and bred. Within 6 miles of my house, I count about twelve lots of stables. I'm not rich or posh either, I just happen to have a horse who freaks it at very minor things. I don't take him on the road anymore.

Consideration on both sides is key. Slowing down til you get past is essential if you'd rather not risk killing the horse or the rider. Falling off is no fun, the road hurts! Don't tell us not to ride on the road when sometimes, rather crucially, WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE!! (Plus, it's not illegal, so shove it, frankly)

Remember, horses have personalities and odd fears, just like our other beloved pets.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

cinnamontoast said:


> Wow, just wow!
> 
> It would be useful for those drivers who get annoyed at horses to remember that they are not robots. They may be 'bombproof' on the road, but when some wan.... persistently revs the engine, it makes the rider and therefore the horse nervous. A friend had some chav on his moped try to scare her whilst riding. He succeeded. He persisted so long and wouldn't stop so the horse threw his rider over a garden wall. She broke lots of things and lost consciousness. Where was the need? :mad5:
> 
> ...


Imagine the audacity of those country folk, letting their animals, wot live in the country, poop in the country. It's bloomin' terrible isn't it.

Off to start a thread to tell the townies not to bother coming into the countryside to walk their dogs on a weekend or bank holiday, should get a few comments


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your friend CinnamonToast, even more sorry about the horse. What a terrible, terrible thing to happen :sad:


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> I hate seeing horses on the road, but only because I am so scared of scaring them - I get on the other side of the road and _crawl_ past them, the riders are probably thinking 'OMG, just get on with it' :lol:


Most horses are fine to be ridden on the road - and slowing down, indicating and going round them (when safe to do so) at a sensible speed is really all that riders are asking for. (And hopefully the rider will acknowledge and thank the driver!)

You want to be able to hit the brakes and stop should something spook the horse and cause it to move to the right in front of you, or for there to be adequate space between it and the car as you pass. (Unfortunately, sometimes unforeseen things can happen like a pheasant suddenly leaping above a hedge on the inside which can spook a horse - not unreasonable really - and the horse, being a flight animal will instinctively want to move away from it - which would likely be further into the road.)

If a car is speeding past just at that moment there is very little chance of avoiding a collision.

One of the reasons that riders sometimes go two abreast is to be more visible as an obstruction - impelling the driver to slow and think before overtaking. Often, a driver will think there is room to squeeze between a single horse and an oncoming vehicle - the presence of two horses may suggest otherwise.

Riders do need to be proactive too - wearing hi-viz clothing, checking behind to acknowledge and even direct drivers, signalling if it's not safe to pass or otherwise, waving down cars that are approaching too fast, etc. Big smiles and waves of thanks when a driver has been considerate.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Honestly, it was one of my big fears, being hit and some drivers where I used to ride on roads were so intolerant and impatient or just plain unthinking, they'd scare the crap out of the horse and me.

Here's the thread about the poor girl (it made me bawl)
Recovering from the worst day of my life


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Because of the vehicles I drive - works van with ladders and amber lights on top, disco with roof tent and a few other bits on top - I always go slow and wide round horses. I know as long as they can see me, if I move slowly and surely, they're usually ok. 

The problem is, looking out for other things that might spook them. As someone who has also ridden in the past, all it takes is a new box somewhere along their route, or a paper bag flying in the wind, and that can make them spook and become unpredictable. Sometimes it's even just the wind, or something you can't see, possibly they can smell. 

Usually, the riders I come across, if there's a problem, they will signal and tell me to slow down and keep behind, and I'm quite happy to stay well back until I can go past. After all, all I have to do, is stick my foot on a clutch pedal and accelerator, maybe change gear (what a chore) and steer well round them.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> Most horses are fine to be ridden on the road - and slowing down, indicating and going round them (when safe to do so) at a *sensible speed* is really all that riders are asking for. (And hopefully the rider will acknowledge and thank the driver!)
> 
> You want to be able to hit the brakes and stop should something spook the horse and cause it to move to the right in front of you, or for there to be adequate space between it and the car as you pass. (Unfortunately, sometimes unforeseen things can happen like a pheasant suddenly leaping above a hedge on the inside which can spook a horse - not unreasonable really - and the horse, being a flight animal will instinctively want to move away from it - which would likely be further into the road.)
> 
> ...


What _is_ a sensible speed to pass horses?

I don't know if I go too slow and maybe upset them more than necessary? Not that I encounter horses very often


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

MCWillow said:


> What _is_ a sensible speed to pass horses?
> 
> I don't know if I go too slow and maybe upset them more than necessary? Not that I encounter horses very often


I'd guess about 10mph, but it depends on your vehicle, and what it sounds like at that sort of speed.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

The girl I knew, her horse was hit by a speeding driver and she was pinned between the horse and a tree - her spine was snapped.

All for the sake of a driver taking a bend a few mph slower 

The driver had no way of knowing what was round the corner - it could have been a combine harvester, a family out for a walk, a cyclist, someone broken down at the side of the road etc. but they were going so fast, they could not stop in time.

I anticipate an obstruction when driving round winding lanes - just in case.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'd guess about 10mph, but it depends on your vehicle, and what it sounds like at that sort of speed.


Thats about what I do, so thats OK


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> What _is_ a sensible speed to pass horses?
> 
> I don't know if I go too slow and maybe upset them more than necessary? Not that I encounter horses very often


It depends, but generally I would say at a speed where you could do an emergency stop if necessary - but get past without too much delay, keeping the engine noise normal.

But it still depends on the type of road, how close other traffic is, etc. and assuming the horse is just going along happily at the time. I'd always wait for there to be a large enough gap that I don't have to hurry past.

If a horse is prancing around in front of you, then I would suggest stopping, put on hazards to warn drivers behind you, until the rider regains control and signals it is safe to proceed.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm always a little anxious whenever I see horses on the road - years ago my dad witnessed a horrific accident involving a horse, its always stuck in my mind.

Is it law that you have to wear a riding hat? - I regularly see a young lad and lass riding down the lane without hats on.



.



.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> I'm always a little anxious whenever I see horses on the road - years ago my dad witnessed a horrific accident involving a horse, its always stuck in my mind.
> 
> Is it law that you have to wear a riding hat? - I regularly see a young lad and lass riding down the lane without hats on.
> 
> ...


Sadly, no.

It's madness not to, IMO.

Even riding in a field the horse could stumble, rider falls off and hits head on a rock. It is no reflection on ability.

I went out on my bike today, on the road, and wore a helmet. Better safe than sorry.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> Sadly, no.
> 
> It's madness not to, IMO.
> 
> I went out on my bike today, on the road, and wore a helmet. Better safe than sorry.


Thank you for clarifying LL - I actually thought they were breaking the law. I agree with you it is madness not to wear one & I've seen these two clowns galloping, side by side, at quite a speed.

.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> I'm always a little anxious whenever I see horses on the road - years ago my dad witnessed a horrific accident involving a horse, its always stuck in my mind.
> 
> Is it law that you have to wear a riding hat? - I regularly see a young lad and lass riding down the lane without hats on.
> 
> ...


As far as I'm aware it is a legal requirement for 14years and under to wear a riding hat,but common sense should tell you that it is just plain daft for anyone not to wear one.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

buffie said:


> As far as I'm aware it is a legal requirement for 14years and under to wear a riding hat,but common sense should tell you that it is just plain daft for anyone not to wear one.


Thats what I read too - the only exception is Sikh children wearing turbans.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

buffie said:


> As far as I'm aware it is a legal requirement for 14years and under to wear a riding hat,but common sense should tell you that it is just plain daft for anyone not to wear one.


Hiya Buffie, thanks for that. These two look like they're in their early 20's.

.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

MCWillow said:


> Thats what I read too - the only exception is Sikh children wearing turbans.


That's daft too. Guess not many do horse ride though.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

buffie said:


> As far as I'm aware it is a legal requirement for 14years and under to wear a riding hat,but common sense should tell you that it is just plain daft for anyone not to wear one.


I wish the same applied to cycle helmets for under 14's too.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

MCWillow said:


> Thats what I read too - the only exception is Sikh children wearing turbans.


My daughter would lose her job if she didn't wear one while handling horses,she works in a livery yard where the owner insists on them being worn at all times .


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> Hiya Buffie, thanks for that. These two look like they're in their early 20's.
> 
> .


Sounds as though they are fortunate to have reach their early 20's


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Valanita said:


> That's daft too. Guess not many do horse ride though.


Actually, yes it is daft because I believe that young Sikhs can wear a cloth, which would fit under a hat easily - so there is probably no need for the exemption.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> I was horrified to read about a forum 'friend' who was knocked off her horse last week by a speeding driver. She has several open fractures and the horse had to be put to sleep, all because the driver had zero consideration and couldn't slow down for two seconds to pass her safely. Breaks my heart.





Lurcherlad said:


> Just taking a few seconds to slow down and pass a horse safely would have avoided the accident - so sad.
> 
> I knew someone who experienced a similar thing, she ended up in a wheelchair for life and the horse was pts - all for the sake of a few seconds delay to a car driver's journey.


These are dreadful accounts - I hope the bar stewards driving the cars did not emerge unscathed



MCWillow said:


> *I hate seeing horses on the road, but only because I am so scared of scaring them - I get on the other side of the road and crawl past them, the riders are probably thinking 'OMG, just get on with it' :lol:*




This is me, too! And I am terrified of accidentally hitting the horn (even thought I can never find the damn thing when I really need it!) - but I have seen drivers deliberately sound the horn as they bomb past horses - stupid sods!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> *Consideration on both sides is key. Slowing down til you get past is essential if you'd rather not risk killing the horse or the rider. *Falling off is no fun, the road hurts! Don't tell us not to ride on the road when sometimes, rather crucially, WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE!! (Plus, it's not illegal, so shove it, frankly)
> 
> Remember, horses have personalities and odd fears, just like our other beloved pets.


Hear, hear! Courtesy costs nothing, and allows people to live alongside each other without the need for violence.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> Honestly, it was one of my big fears, being hit and some drivers where I used to ride on roads were so intolerant and impatient or just plain unthinking, they'd scare the crap out of the horse and me.
> 
> Here's the thread about the poor girl (it made me bawl)
> Recovering from the worst day of my life


This is heartbreaking - was the driver prosecuted, do you know?

That poor girl, and that poor, poor horse.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lostbear said:


> These are dreadful accounts - I hope the bar stewards driving the cars did not emerge unscathed
> 
> [/B]


The incident I mentioned - No, the driver walked away without a scratch, I believe


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> Actually, yes it is daft because I believe that young Sikhs can wear a cloth, which would fit under a hat easily - so there is probably no need for the exemption.


I believe that Sikfs also wear a small ceremonial knife inside the turban - perhaps this makes it uncomfortable. Before they are old enough for a turban, young Sikh boys wear their hair (Sikhs don't cut their hair) in a sort of bun under a little cap - is this what you are thinking of? This would possibly fit under a hat okay - it is positioned on the top of the head. Would that fit? I'm not a rider and am scared stiff of horsed having been chased by one (it bit all of the buttons of the front of my dress. I nearly cried.), so I don't know much about hard hats.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> The incident I mentioned - No, the driver walked away without a scratch, I believe


Typical! I hope his insurance rocketed. What a git.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

RachJeremy said:


> Racing bikes are the worst!!! Where i used to work it was narrow country lanes. And i went to the shop one afternoon, and one of the bends was a short and sharp 90 degrees... I was only doing between 15-20mph, don't know exact speed as i knew there was a bike race on. I ended up slamming on my brakes and up the grass verge because a cyclist came flying around the corner on the *wrong side of the road*, as he came round he smacked my car with his hand and called me a "stupid f***ing b***h" who needed to learn how to drive... >.< So i could have killed him if i hadn't of nearly crashed my car because of him... He was shortly followed by 20+ bikes, two of which asked if i was ok, and i said i had to stop because one of their cyclists nearly hit my car. But the others didn't even stop. I flicked my hazards on and waited till they'd gone to pull away. I couldn't believe how rude he was, considering i was in no way in the wrong... He wasn't wearing anything reflective. I didn't see him till last minute as he was going way too fast round that bend...
> 
> And when i ride my horse, we have no school/arena at the yard, we're not allowed to ride in the fields, so we HAVE to hack out. And in order to get to the bridleways, we have to hack for at least 2-3 miles each way out of our drive to get to one. So we HAVE to go on the road. We have no choice. Even to get to our nearby arena we rent, we have to use the roads. And half the time horses are more polite than cyclists. I slow down for cyclists when driving, none of them thank me. And half the time they ride in the middle of the lane, making it hard for me to go past and cause a long line of traffic. Whereas when i ride my horse if i can pull over into a driveway, footpath entrance or grass verge to make it easier for a long line of cars to pass if the road is busy both ways, i will. And half the time, NONE of the cars even thank me for that... Yet i still do it because it's safer. I hardly have any cars thank me for giving way to them or stopping to let them past.
> Even at one point i was on my way to the bridleway, i put my hand up to indicate i was going to turn right into the lane which led to it, the car behind me tailgated me, then decided he wasn't going to wait for me to turn off, and sped in front of me... He was so close i had to stop my horse. He had two or three cars behind him, the one behind was shouting in his car about him and asked if i was ok and let me go, of which point i said thank you and smiled as i thought that was really polite, as he actually had stopped and stopped the cars behind him doing so.
> ...


Now you just being as judgemental as the person that wrote the article you originally posted.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

buffie said:


> My daughter would lose her job if she didn't wear one while handling horses,she works in a livery yard where the owner insists on them being worn at all times .


Sensible. My husband's colleague's sister was kicked in the head not long after my accident. She was in a coma for a long time. I think they call it a 'life changing' accident, rather euphemistically. Had she been wearing a hat, perhaps she wouldn't have brain damage. 


lostbear said:


> This is heartbreaking - was the driver prosecuted, do you know?
> 
> That poor girl, and that poor, poor horse.


He was cautioned at the scene for careless driving. She's looking into suing him, I believe.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

RachJeremy said:


> The best thing you can do about that is to go nice and slow and watch for the horse's reaction. If it looks unsettled wait for the rider to let you know when it's safe to pass. I once had a tractor wanting to pass me, and my horse freaked out. It was a bit, loud monster to him. He want jogging and doing little rears. I had no space to pull over to let him have a look, as we were next to a hedge. So i would have hoped the tractor driver would have stopped or at least waited for me to say he could pass, seeing as there was a layby a little bit further down, he could have just waited... But no, he went past and it was a small lane and he was TOO close. I shouted at him as he passed me asking for a bit more respect as he could see my horse was spooking. But he just carried on and looked at me like i was mad... He wouldn't be saying that if he'd of run my horse over! I as he'd have a heck of a time dealing with me... Never mind me getting hurt, i care about my horse and won't let anyone hurt him.
> But most riders will rather you stay behind and distant until they have control of the horse and are able to let you pass safely. As it's not just us in danger, it's the drivers and their car.


This is what people should do, but with all due respect. I tend to watch the road not the animal.... I don't know horses, I don't know how they could react. Between that and looking for other hazards.

So, who is responsible..... You can't expect people to think they way you want them too, or predict what could happen.

Best you can do is help yourself and prepare you, and your horse for all eventualities. Like we get told when we are preparing for driving tests.

For the record I always act accordingly around horses/cyclists whatever.... Shame not everyone can be as corteous
I was told; "Treat everyone else on the road as an idiot"


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

I was driving down an unsealed and very narrow road a couple of days ago and there were two horses being ridden towards me. I pulled over to let them past and spare them a choking lungful of dust. 

The rear horse jibbed at my car so I turned the engine off. 

The horses took maybe a minute to walk past and I allowed them to get out of sight before starting up and moving on. Total time about 2 minutes maybe 3.

The riders both thanked me and smiled as they passed. I complimented them on their horses' condition. 

Where's the problem with any of that? It was quite a pleasant interlude and I enjoyed seeing the horses. Believe me, nothing I do is so important that I can't spare a couple of minutes.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Valanita said:


> I want one!:biggrin:
> The poop would be scattered to the winds, or he/she could be trained to only 'go' over the sea or into a wide river.:biggrin:


Or 10 Downing Street:ihih:



MCWillow said:


> I hate seeing horses on the road, but only because I am so scared of scaring them - I get on the other side of the road and _crawl_ past them, the riders are probably thinking 'OMG, just get on with it' :lol:


I was once behind a horse and rider who was waiting at the traffic lights in Cambridge, on the cycle bit at the front. The horse was at least 17 hh and it was doing little dances round in circles and little rears. Luckily there was no one behind me, cos I back up a long way to keep out of its way. Obviously the rider had the skill to keep the horse from bolting off, which was admirable, but I doubt anyone could have stopped a horse that size if a lorry or something really spooky had past the crossroads.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The horse was at least 17 hh and it was doing little dances round in circles and little rears.


This is roughly what I witnessed only the horse eventually reared up far enough that a hoof nearly went through a van window. It would have been head height if there was someone in the vehicle.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Whoa 22 pages! I ain't reading all of them!

Anyways. I have horses, I WAS a horse rider, not at the moment though as one horse retired and the new horse needs to be bought back into work.

Anyways, I always slow down for horses but the way some of them ride and react, its no wonder many people are annoyed at them on the roads.... and this is coming from a horse rider!

The other month I was driving down a country lane to take my puppy for a walk, came across TWELVE people riding their horses - both adults and children. 

Now this country lane was very narrow, as they usually are, only a single lane for cars... these bloody riders were riding THREE abreast and didn't give a **** WHAT SO EVER!

I had to drive so close to their horses to actually fit past them, not one of them looked at me and not one of them moved over. They were all too busy chatting and being a bunch of stupid morons who have no disregards for their horses safety... OR MY PATIENCE!

Anyways I somehow managed to fit past these riders, if one of their horses had spooked it would have hit my car... and not one of them thanked me.

Stuff like that really pissed me off and totally ruined my walk!

I always thank people who drive slow past me and I give the finger to those who speed past 

BTW I am also a road bike cyclist and move out of the way as best I can when cars are coming.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Like in every walk of life there are good & bad, whether they are drivers, horse riders, dog owners, pedestrians or cyclists, I could also add neighbours & relatives too, but I hope the good out weight the bad.
We all have to live together on this planet & should be tollerant of each other.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Horses were here first and they have right of way on the road.

Kids riding horses need to be shown the correct way to ride on a road. Drivers need to be a little more patient.

Horse riders need to be a little more courteous some times maybe.

and any motorists beeping a horn at a horse or in close proximity to a trailer with horses in should get a driving ban.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Valanita said:


> Well, unless you ate roses as part of a vegetarian diet, I doubt your poo would smell of them. But you wouldn't poop on a road anyway.


dont bank on it.........:ihih:


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> Horses were here first and they have right of way on the road.


Were tarmac roads built for horses?....course not, keep the damn things in fields where they belong


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> I hate seeing horses on the road, but only because I am so scared of scaring them - I get on the other side of the road and _crawl_ past them, the riders are probably thinking 'OMG, just get on with it' :lol:


Is that walking or driving  I've got visions of you crawling along the road past a horse and rider shaking her head lol


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> dont bank on it.........:ihih:


and taxi drivers especially should be given extra tuitition on how to behave around horses on a public highway..closely followed by boy racers and other morons.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> Were tarmac roads built for horses?....course not, keep the damn things in fields where they belong


Did you know that horses have right of way over everything in London? That being the case, and being as there are many mounted police in the capitol, I doubt you will get your wish.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

lilythepink said:


> and taxi drivers especially should be given extra tuitition on how to behave around horses on a public highway..closely followed by boy racers and other morons.


Taxi drivers should be given extra tuition on how to drive, full stop


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## srj (Aug 30, 2013)

Riders don't have any option but to ride on roads.... even if only for a couple of minutes to get to the bridleway or moor. The key to all of this is education.

Drivers should have read their Highway Code in order to pass their driving test.....

_*Quote from the Highway code - 215
Horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles. Be particularly careful of horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles especially when overtaking. Always pass wide and slowly. Horse riders are often children, so take extra care and remember riders may ride in double file when escorting a young or inexperienced horse or rider. Look out for horse riders and horse drivers signals and heed a request to slow down or stop. Take great care and treat all horses as a potential hazard.[/*_*B]

Riders should join the British Horse Society and complete their Riding and Road Safety Certificate. I don't ride but both of my daughter do... they never went out on their ponies unaccompanied until they had completed the Riding and Road Safety Certificate and they had it drummed into them to be polite and to move out of the way of any cars as soon as possible. The Pony Club often holds Riding and Road Safety courses which may be open to non Pony Club members.

Drivers and Riders who show little or no respect for other road users make me sooooo mad!!!! *


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I've never had a problem when passing horses. I just slow right down, assess the situation and then go from there. If I couldn't get past and if they didn't pull over when they could to let me past then of course that would annoy me, but it certainly doesn't bother me that horses have to use the road too.

Maybe it doesn't bother me because I never see any around here? 

The one time I have had an issue with horses on the road was when I was travelling back from somewhere and there were 2 horse and carts going along a busy 50mph, is that even legal?. (I think they were gypsy's) and they would not pull over and nobody could overtake them because of the cars coming the other way. I think I was stuck behind them for a good 45 minutes and the traffic behind was mental. That is an example of some of the horse riders that I think shouldn't ever be allowed on the road. 

Most of the riders I have come across though (and you don't see any round here) are very polite and normally give me a thank you wave or a smile .


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Taxi drivers should be given extra tuition on how to drive, full stop


So my ADI pass doesnt count?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Of course all horses on the road are covered by insurance arent they....as they should be


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Did you know that horses have right of way over everything in London? That being the case, and being as there are many mounted police in the capitol, I doubt you will get your wish.


We were talking about country lanes, and I know the law thanks


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> So my ADI pass doesnt count?


That depends on whether you have an ADI licence. In other words, have you passed all three exams or just the first and second? Do you have any experience of teaching learner drivers? Actually, I don't know SFA about you or your driving, so I should not have generalised, but you should also not generalise about horses on the road. That is where they have to be for short periods in order to get from A to B. I have had bad experiences with taxi drivers in Cambridge, though not black cabs in London I have to admit.


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## Quirk (Nov 12, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Of course all horses on the road are covered by insurance arent they....as they should be


The same as all drivers are...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> Of course all horses on the road are covered by insurance arent they....as they should be


Most horse owners would have third party liability insurance, although it is not compulsory. It is common sense though even if they can't insure the horse for anything else.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I've been thinking about the question of insurance too. Maybe it should be compulsory for all road users. The subject does raise its head once in a while re cyclists as well.


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## srj (Aug 30, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> Most horse owners would have third party liability insurance, although it is not compulsory. It is common sense though even if they can't insure the horse for anything else.


I believe that British Horse Society and Pony Club members have public liability insurance as part of their membership. In my experience most responsible horse owner have insurance to cover public liability, vets bills etc.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

havoc said:


> I've been thinking about the question of insurance too. Maybe it should be compulsory for all road users. The subject does raise its head once in a while re cyclists as well.


Its sensible to have at least 3rd party insurance for all road users.....but not law and this should include horses.

If horses don't walk on a public road then ether is no need....maybe that way there would be less horses on the road too. If people had to pay, they would probably find another route .


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> We were talking about country lanes, and I know the law thanks


country lanes, roads....horses have right of way.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

lilythepink said:


> Its sensible to have at least 3rd party insurance for all road users.....but not law and this should include horses.
> 
> *If horses don't walk on a public road *then ether is no need....maybe that way there would be less horses on the road too. *If people had to pay, they would probably find another route *.


I'd like to know what other route. Not everyone has access directly on to open spaces or bridlepaths & *as has been said many times in this thread *almost every horse owner or horse rider has to hack on roads or lanes to get to the said places for safer riding. Even me, just a stones throw from Dartmoor, from where the horses I rode were kept, had road work before reaching the bridlepath to the moor.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Valanita said:


> I'd like to know what other route. Not everyone has access directly on to open spaces or bridlepaths & *as has been said many times in this thread *almost every horse owner or horse rider has to hack on roads or lanes to get to the said places for safer riding. Even me, just a stones throw from Dartmoor, from where the horses I rode were kept, had road work before reaching the bridlepath to the moor.


exactly my point, sorry if it wasn't very clear....after re reading it isn't , sorry.

The only other way for people to ride would be round and round in endless circles in an equestrian centre ....providing of course that the horse didn't need to travel to such a centre..

I do think it is sensible for 3rd party insurance but not everybody can afford it along with the upkeep of a horse/ pony.

Wherever you ride off road, you have to pass along a road at some point.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I do think it is sensible for 3rd party insurance but not everybody can afford it along with the upkeep of a horse/ pony.


That isn't a valid excuse for uninsured drivers so I don't really see it should be for other users of the highway. As keeps being mentioned, responsible owners have it. It's the responsible ones who have the sense not to take traffic shy horses into traffic and have some road sense. The less responsible are more likely to be the cause of an accident.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

havoc said:


> That isn't a valid excuse for uninsured drivers so I don't really see it should be for other users of the highway. As keeps being mentioned, responsible owners have it. It's the responsible ones who have the sense not to take traffic shy horses into traffic and have some road sense. *The less responsible are more likely to be the cause of an accident*.


That is true. There wll always be horse owners/riders who don't have insurance as there are dog owners with out it & even motorists who get away with not having it.


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## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

Country roads
154
Take extra care on country roads and reduce your speed at approaches to bends, which can be sharper than they appear, and at junctions and turnings, which may be partially hidden. Be prepared for pedestrians, horse riders, cyclists, slow-moving farm vehicles or mud on the road surface. *Make sure you can stop within the distance you can see to be clear. *You should also reduce your speed where country roads enter villages.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I once brought my horse in from the field in Winter, and turned the hosepipe onto his feet, not realising it was on the 'spray' attachment.

When it sprayed him directly in the face, he leapt backwards and landed with his backside on the bonnet of the Vet's brand new, BMW 4 x 4.

I was very glad I had Public Liability Insurance then!


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm generally of the opinion that there is space for everyone with a little common sense and tolerance (both ways). 

Horse riders need to be aware that not every driver is going to be horse savvy and that they shouldn't hold up traffic where avoidable. 

Driver should respect that riders have a right to use the road too. 

I've seen people whizz past horses etc, but I've also been stuck behind two stuck up girls for nearly half an hour, despite passing several places they could have stopped for a second.

A little consideration goes a long way.


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## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

Muze said:


> I'm generally of the opinion that there is space for everyone with a little common sense and tolerance (both ways).
> 
> Horse riders need to be aware that not every driver is going to be horse savvy and that they shouldn't hold up traffic where avoidable.
> 
> ...


Absolutely right. Well said. I am a horse rider, motor cyclist and car driver. (I also drive a lorry) I see good and bad from all categories. Tolerance, patience and common sense (plus public liability insurance) are needed by all the afore mentioned.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

havoc said:


> That isn't a valid excuse for uninsured drivers so I don't really see it should be for other users of the highway. As keeps being mentioned, responsible owners have it. It's the responsible ones who have the sense not to take traffic shy horses into traffic and have some road sense. The less responsible are more likely to be the cause of an accident.


valid excuse? we have never had to have insurance of any kind for keeping horses that walk on roads.

The only legislation I can ever remember is a licence from the local council for keeping a stallion cos it was considered a dangerous animal.

Saying its not a valid excuse for not having horse. insurance is vague......having car insurance anywhere the public have access is a legal requirement.

That would be like saying that all road users have to have insurance and being unable to afford it isn't an excuse....so walkers, dog walkers, cyclists.....everybody who touches the tar mac should have insurance then?

More accidents a year caused by dogs than horses....


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Saying its not a valid excuse for not having horse. insurance is vague......having car insurance anywhere the public have access is a legal requirement.


I don't think it's unreasonable to require anyone who engages in any activity with substantial potential to cause harm to others to carry third party cover. There has been periodic discussion over cyclists, why not horses? Pedestrians and dog walkers are not users of the public highway in the same sense.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I believe its only vehicles with engines that have to have insurance by law.


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## SpotOn (May 7, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> I also pay road tax and ride, shock horror. Should I seriously get off (my 17'2 Hanoverian) then what? Lead him home cos there's no way on God's earth I can get back on again the huge beast without the mounting block?! I think you are not reasonable.
> 
> I was horrified to read about a forum 'friend' who was knocked off her horse last week by a speeding driver. She has several open fractures and the horse had to be put to sleep, all because the driver had zero consideration and couldn't slow down for two seconds to pass her safely. Breaks my heart.
> 
> Goes off to read thread properly.


Said 'friend' accident was literally down the road from where I live, and I know her and the horse. It is generally OK to ride about there as it is fairly quiet, but you do get the odd idiots as you do anywhere about, going far too fast around bends 

I am another who pays £££ every year in road tax every year, insurance for my car, myself and my horse. My car produces far more emissions than my horse produces, fact. I can use my horses poo as fertiliser, I can not do anything but damaged the environment (and health of myself/others who have to breathe in the fumes) with my fuel emissions. But as it happens, unfortunately I need my car to get to my horse/place of work as I am not in the position to have my horse at home in my back garden.

If man stopped tarmacking everywhere (and building houses where farmland used to once be) it would be far easier to stay OFF the roads. And I am sure 99% of riders would be in favour off not having to ride on the roads.

Car drivers can be just as unpredictable as horses. You never know when they may beep their horns, zoom past, rev engines (which in turn is more likely to upset a horse and cause an accident). At least with horses they can given you an indiction via body language- if drivers actually paid more attention to this when behind them at a safe distance they would see the signs of an unsettled horse, but they are too busy trying to get past much of the time.

As for being wealthy- I paid £80 today for a vet to stick a needle in my horses neck for 2 seconds (vaccs)  Tank of fuel costs less than that lol


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Forum friend is Norfolk, your friend must be another. It's sadly all too common.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

SpotOn said:


> <snip>
> 
> Car drivers can be just as unpredictable as horses. You never know when they may beep their horns, zoom past, rev engines (which in turn is more likely to upset a horse and cause an accident).* At least with horses they can given you an indiction via body language*- if drivers actually paid more attention to this when behind them at a safe distance they would see the signs of an unsettled horse, but they are too busy trying to get past much of the time.
> 
> <snip>


I understand what you are saying, and I do agree that some car drivers need to be more aware, and should know to drive slowly and safely past a horse - but I wouldn't know a horses body language, anymore than I would expect someone to know one of my cats body language TBH.

If I was driving up behind a horse and saw it rearing and prancing, I would _guess_ that it wasn't happy and hang back, but apart from that I wouldn't have a clue on what body language to look out for in a distressed or anxious horse.

Its a bit unfair, IMO, to say all car drivers should know a horse is distressed by its body language (unless the only signs of distress are very obvious, like rearing).


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## SpotOn (May 7, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> I understand what you are saying, and I do agree that some car drivers need to be more aware, and should know to drive slowly and safely past a horse - but I wouldn't know a horses body language, anymore than I would expect someone to know one of my cats body language TBH.
> 
> If I was driving up behind a horse and saw it rearing and prancing, I would _guess_ that it wasn't happy and hang back, but apart from that I wouldn't have a clue on what body language to look out for in a distressed or anxious horse.
> 
> *Its a bit unfair, IMO, to say all car drivers should know a horse is distressed by its body language* (unless the only signs of distress are very obvious, like rearing).


I didn't say that


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Wiz201 said:


> I believe its only vehicles with engines that have to have insurance by law.


Well it's about time it changed, road going mobility scooters, bikes, horses, all can do a lot of damage and cause accidents they 
*ALL SHOULD HAVE INSURANCE !!!*


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

MontyMaude said:


> Erm no the horse which was riderless at the time skitted backwards down the road until it touched the front corner of his car it then span round and kicked his door, he was about 20 foot behind the horse and was just moving into the middle of the road to pass her, so maybe you should change your stance on cars getting kicked maybe
> 
> edited to add, the woman who had been on the said horse after she regained control of it indicated to my husband to pull into her yard and then proceeded to apologise and pay for the damage, so she admitted she was at fault.


Well if thats the case it was all done well. As you didn't mention she wasn't on the horse! But that goes to show, that not all horse riders are bad and shouldn't be on the road if she was happy to pay for the damage.


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## SpotOn (May 7, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> Well it's about time it changed, road going mobility scooters, bikes, horses, all can do a lot of damage and cause accidents they
> *ALL SHOULD HAVE INSURANCE !!!*


Again if man hadn't started laying tarmac/concrete or building various things etc, horse and horse riders wouldn't have to use roads.

Mankind is responsible for so much damage and destruction, yet not responsible to take the blame for the wrong doings we are causing.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

SpotOn said:


> Again if man hadn't started laying tarmac/concrete or building various things etc, horse and horse riders wouldn't have to use roads.


you dislike progress?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

porps said:


> you dislike progress?


Progress is great, just look what it's done for our farming industry and shopping habits! We now don't know what we're buying, or where we're buying it from.

One thing you can be sure of is that the vast majority of it has been driven hundreds, if not thousands of miles to get to us.

Personally, I like a bit of old fashioned ways.


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## SpotOn (May 7, 2013)

porps said:


> you dislike progress?


I don't think building on valuable farmland, or closing down/off areas of green space which was once provided for us to enjoy (often for free) just to build new houses/shopping centres etc is progress, No. I want to be able to walk out and see green space, wildlife, nice landscapes not tower block, new build homes, new shopping centres etc.

There are MORE than enough homes/areas which are run down which could be used to house people (which could be affordable), and we are losing such beautiful areas to developers. Causing higher emissions, more traffic (both person and motor), stretching are resources (like food!!!) to the limits. I think as a start, we as a species need to source FAR MORE locally to home, buy from farm shops, local butchers, green grocers and stop letting big companies like tesco walk in and drive out small independent business (often family run), doing everything on the cheap and mass producing.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

SpotOn said:


> I don't think building on valuable farmland, or closing down/off areas of green space which was once provided for us to enjoy (often for free) just to build new houses/shopping centres etc is progress, No. I want to be able to walk out and see green space, wildlife, nice landscapes not tower block, new build homes, new shopping centres etc.
> 
> There are MORE than enough homes/areas which are run down which could be used to house people (which could be affordable), and we are losing such beautiful areas to developers. Causing higher emissions, more traffic (both person and motor), stretching are resources (like food!!!) to the limits. I think as a start, we as a species need to source FAR MORE locally to home, buy from farm shops, local butchers, green grocers and stop letting big companies like tesco walk in and drive out small independent business (often family run), doing everything on the cheap and mass producing.


I agree to some extent.

Progress it good but really how much of it do we actually need? Things being built and getting rid of habitats at the same time, putting animals on the verge of extinction, Co2 levels rising because so many people drive (Though so much cattle doesn't help because of methane when they fart. More high levels of greenhouse gases) not to mention so much sulphur dioxide coming from factories which then causes acid rain and kills fishes in lakes and damages limestone buildings, etc. Then limestone quarrying can destroy habitats, and gives more traffic and destroys a beautiful landscape. So much more.

People forget that we need animals and don't realise how much they actually do and give to keep our ecosystem sustainable and right. Everything is here for a reason and serves a good purpose. Like the bee, we need that to pollinate things, deforestation is less photosynthesising happening so less CO2 is being absorbed and O2 given out. I believe 20 percent of the amazon has already been destroyed and tribes within the amazon have been made to work for such companies like Bodycare crushing nuts and having to adapt to our ways when they were perfectly fine how they were. Why because of gold mining, etc. Selfish greed.

However to bad things good can come from it. Personally destroying a beautiful area to build a shopping mall complex is utter crap. How many shops like that do we actually need but then you do have to look at some of the pro's. Jobs being vacant and money slowly being put forth back into the economy.

Not being an ecomaniac here but it does sometimes make me think how much is actually down to greed really and why we never learn from past mistakes or the mistakes we make now and blame everything else.

And I do agree with locally grown food would be a better resource than manufactured but there can be a great cost difference in that.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

P3 Professionals Change Drivers Bronze Age Orientation Day - YouTube

yeah technology is good, but it can go too far. personally i dont see what was wrong with square wheels in the first place!


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> I understand what you are saying, and I do agree that some car drivers need to be more aware, and should know to drive slowly and safely past a horse - but I wouldn't know a horses body language, anymore than I would expect someone to know one of my cats body language TBH.
> 
> If I was driving up behind a horse and saw it rearing and prancing, I would _guess_ that it wasn't happy and hang back, but apart from that I wouldn't have a clue on what body language to look out for in a distressed or anxious horse.
> 
> Its a bit unfair, IMO, to say all car drivers should know a horse is distressed by its body language (unless the only signs of distress are very obvious, like rearing).


Its in the highway code how to drive when approaching horses. Horses actually have a right of way on the roads. You don't need to read a horses body language but reading the highway code is a legal requirement.

Any horse rider who rides on the road will be able to tell of many near misses from impatient and stupid drivers. If the driver thought for 1 minute that the child riding that pony up ahead could be their child, maybe they would think twice before revving up their engine, driving too close to a horses bum or beeping their horns.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

havoc said:


> I don't think it's unreasonable to require anyone who engages in any activity with substantial potential to cause harm to others to carry third party cover. There has been periodic discussion over cyclists, why not horses? Pedestrians and dog walkers are not users of the public highway in the same sense.


where does it end then? More accidents caused by dogs on the roads than by horses and horse riders. More people bitten by dogs than horses....and so it goes on.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

when I was a teenager, I rode my horse through our quiet village and some hooray henry in a little blue sports car decided that me and my horse were fair game and good sport.

The car could easily have got past me but the driver was trying to chat me up, annoy me and wind my horse up all at the same time. As I went to turn round a corner, the driver drove very very close to my horse's bum. I told the driver to sod off....did he listen?...not a chance.

He crawled along up my horse's bum....great new game...I wish we had had mobile phones then cos I would have dialled 999.

I was getting stressed....so horse was feeling me getting stressed. Driver touched my horse's bum with the front bumper of his car....you would think a horse would shoot forwards? Well, they don't and my horse plonked his huge backside on the bonnet of this little sports car and did mega damage to it. and it served the driver right.

If this discussion was about our dogs....and more people on here have dogs than horses....would we be saying all responsible dog owners would have insurance? Dogs shouldn't be aloowed on the roads etc? Keep em in a kennel where they belong?

Each to their own......some people keep horses, some dogs....and others keep snakes. Whatever floats your boat.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

SpotOn said:


> I didn't say that


No - you said



SpotOn said:


> Said 'friend' accident was literally down the road from where I live, and I know her and the horse. It is generally OK to ride about there as it is fairly quiet, but you do get the odd idiots as you do anywhere about, going far too fast around bends
> 
> I am another who pays £££ every year in road tax every year, insurance for my car, myself and my horse. My car produces far more emissions than my horse produces, fact. I can use my horses poo as fertiliser, I can not do anything but damaged the environment (and health of myself/others who have to breathe in the fumes) with my fuel emissions. But as it happens, unfortunately I need my car to get to my horse/place of work as I am not in the position to have my horse at home in my back garden.
> 
> ...


So you didn't say _some_ car drivers, or _a few_ car drivers, or _a minority_ of car drivers, or even a _majority_ of car drivers - you said 'car drivers' thus implying that you meant _all_ car drivers.

It actually would have been far more useful, for people that haven't spent a lot of time around horses, to indicate other signs of a distressed horse that aren't as obvious as prancing or rearing.



lilythepink said:


> Its in the highway code how to drive when approaching horses. Horses actually have a right of way on the roads. You don't need to read a horses body language but reading the highway code is a legal requirement.
> 
> Any horse rider who rides on the road will be able to tell of many near misses from impatient and stupid drivers. If the driver thought for 1 minute that the child riding that pony up ahead could be their child, maybe they would think twice before revving up their engine, driving too close to a horses bum or beeping their horns.


I didn't ask how to drive when approaching horses. Maybe you missed the post I made explaining how I drive when _I_ approach horses?

Here it is


MCWillow said:


> I hate seeing horses on the road, but only because I am so scared of scaring them - I get on the other side of the road and _crawl_ past them, the riders are probably thinking 'OMG, just get on with it' :lol:


I then went on to ask what a safe speed was, and was reassured, that I do indeed pass horses in the safest way possible.

But thanks for the lecture on the Highway Code - just what people need when trying to learn from _actual_ horse riders, the best and safest way to deal with meeting a horse on the road.

Anyone could be an expert in anything just by reading - I prefer to hear it straight from the horses mouth - so to speak


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> That depends on whether you have an ADI licence. In other words, have you passed all three exams or just the first and second? Do you have any experience of teaching learner drivers? Actually, I don't know SFA about you or your driving, so I should not have generalised, but you should also not generalise about horses on the road. That is where they have to be for short periods in order to get from A to B. I have had bad experiences with taxi drivers in Cambridge, though not black cabs in London I have to admit.


plus more like my driving course with the ambulance service, assessment by a large freight companies transport instructor and (soon) a DCPC for my digicard (maybe)


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

SpotOn said:


> Again if man hadn't started laying tarmac/concrete or building various things etc, horse and horse riders wouldn't have to use roads.
> 
> *Mankind is responsible for so much damage and destruction, yet not responsible to take the blame for the wrong doings we are causing.*


I know that the world would be a much better place with out us, but were here and we all have to live together but why should one set of road users have to pay insurance why others don't.

I'm sick do death with the motorist getting the blame for everything on the road, anything with wheels and hoofs wear the bl**dy roads down but it's the motorist who has to pay insurance and road tax it makes my blood boil.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Again if man hadn't started laying tarmac/concrete or building various things etc, horse and horse riders wouldn't have to use roads.


Where I live the vast majority of horse owning households contain at least one member who commutes over 50 miles each way each day to earn the money to keep horses. For this they use their cars for at least part of the journey. If they didn't want to own horses they could work locally for low wages and not pollute the planet travelling to work


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Happy Paws said:


> I know that the world would be a much better place with out us, but were here and we all have to live together but why should one set of road users have to pay insurance why others don't.
> 
> I'm sick do death with the motorist getting the blame for everything on the road, anything with wheels and hoofs wear the bl**dy roads down but it's the motorist who has to pay insurance and road tax it makes my blood boil.


How much do you think cyclists wear the road down compared to cars or arctics? But since vehicle tax doesn't pay for the upkeep of the road anyway, I guess it's a bit of a null point.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Road tax is mainly based on the amount of emissions a car makes in the air.


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> Road tax is mainly based on the amount of emissions a car makes in the air.


But interestingly, not with motorbikes - that goes on engine size.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Megan345 said:


> How much do you think cyclists wear the road down compared to cars or arctics? But since vehicle tax doesn't pay for the upkeep of the road anyway, I guess it's a bit of a null point.


So what _does_ pay for the upkeep of the road then?

I am genuinely interested as the roads I have to travel on to work are horrendous for potholes - and these are main roads into the town centre.

I am writing a complaint to the local council, but would rather have my facts straight, than saying ' I pay road tax etc' it thats not a valid complaint.

And on the subject of emissions....
Flatulent cows cause methane explosion at German dairy farm that nearly takes off entire barn roof | Mail Online


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Megan345 said:


> How much do you think cyclists wear the road down compared to cars or arctics? But since vehicle tax doesn't pay for the upkeep of the road anyway, I guess it's a bit of a null point.


 Maybe but they should still have insurance.


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> So what _does_ pay for the upkeep of the road then?
> 
> I am genuinely interested as the roads I have to travel on to work are horrendous for potholes - and these are main roads into the town centre.
> 
> ...


All the other taxes we pay. I Pay Road Tax


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Happy Paws said:


> Maybe but they should still have insurance.


Most horse owners have insurance, at least the ones I know do. The horse in my avatar cost over £5000 when he was in horspital, I had insurance, thank god.

I'm astounded at the ignorance shown on this thread. Basic stuff about road tax use. This week, PF has just amazed me, but certainly not in a good way.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> No - you said
> 
> So you didn't say _some_ car drivers, or _a few_ car drivers, or _a minority_ of car drivers, or even a _majority_ of car drivers - you said 'car drivers' thus implying that you meant _all_ car drivers.
> 
> ...


my response wasn't personal to you re approaching horses so sorry that you took offence. and it wasn't a lecture re the highway code.....now you offended me.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> I know that the world would be a much better place with out us, but were here and we all have to live together but why should one set of road users have to pay insurance why others don't.
> 
> I'm sick do death with the motorist getting the blame for everything on the road, anything with wheels and hoofs wear the bl**dy roads down but it's the motorist who has to pay insurance and road tax it makes my blood boil.


cars and vans etc use the roads more than any other user. Horses hooves don't wear the tarmac down at all. Its this mentality that cause conflict.....motorists think....or before some looks for offence in this too......some motorists think they own the roads....well guess what>? they don't.

Car tax is supposed to be towards maintaining roads etc, insurance is for protecting other road users when we are on the road should an accident or damage occur.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

and, for what it is worth, I have public liabilty insurance for my horses, livestock and dogs...........but if my kids start walking on roads, maybe I should find a way to pay insurance for that too?


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## hannahsanimals (Sep 21, 2015)

porps said:


> why shouldnt farmers have to clean up after theyve let their animals make a mess? Why shouldnt horse owners have to pick up the crap if dog owners must?? Cos they think they can do what they bloody like thats the problem with country folk.


I guess I am one of your "country folk". But I do not think I can do what I like, I only ever ride on the roads when I am going to somewhere rural. Please don't complain because the roads aren't just for cars


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Sweety said:


> I own a 4 x 4.


'Nuff said LOL :Joyful


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Horses shouldnt be on the road, thats obvious, they are skittish, and riders cant predict a horses every move, and certainly cant stop one doing whatever half a tonne of meat,bone and muscle will do, keep em in fields, move em in transporters
> 
> i dont drive in fields, they shouldnt ride on roads
> 
> then theres cyclists, who should all be banned basically


Shot.

Cyclists should be shot.

(Getting soft in your old age CB?)


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

I don't ride and I am frightened of horses - they are very beautiful but they are big and hoofy. I have had Experiences,

I would rather have horses on the road than on the pavement. When I'm driving I give them plenty of room and slow down as I pass them. My great fear is that a horse will get spooked and throw its rider under my wheels (I have a similar fear regarding cyclists and elderly joggers - the latter always look as though they are one gasp away from a heart attack).

When push comes to shove horses have as much right on the road as anyone else (except pedestrians - that pees me off, when pedestrians _choose_ to walk on the road when there is a perfectly good pavement on the other side). They are entitled to courtesy and consideration, and should expect to offer the same to other road users by NOT riding three abreast so they can chat.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I've never had an issue as a rider tbh, though we always kept to quiet lanes.

But as a driver, I met a skittish horse on a very narrow, bendy road and couldn't get past it safely, hung back as best as I could but the rider was anxious for me to overtake as they were struggling to control to horse, but I couldn't see round bends!

It's a two way thing IMO, drivers have to respect riders, riders need to make sure their horses are safe to be on roads


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

This is such a old thread but I do take huge offence to cyclists being shot and banned. There is a counter on a cycle route here which counts the daily bikes and from midnight until I passed it at 11.30am on Friday morning it had counted 1107 cyclists, imagine if they were all cars and how fortunate it is that some people do think about greener transport. No not all cyclist are perfect but there's an awful lot of car drivers who fail at perfection too. Have a bit of sodding respect for another road user who actually takes up less space.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm just preparing and practicing for my driving test now and I do get really cross with some drivers (of all ages etc tbh) that they don't 'play by the rules' or even try to drive safely, especially on multi lane roundabouts, never indicate, just change lanes at will! 

I like to think I'm respectful of cyclists, riders, pedestrians, other road users etc.... BUT..... as said, it's a mutual thing, we all have to take a bit of responsibility for ourselves and make sensible decisions when using the roads.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

MollySmith said:


> This is such a old thread but I do take huge offence to cyclists being shot and banned. There is a counter on a cycle route here which counts the daily bikes and from midnight until I passed it at 11.30am on Friday morning it had counted 1107 cyclists, imagine if they were all cars and how fortunate it is that some people do think about greener transport. No not all cyclist are perfect but there's an awful lot of car drivers who fail at perfection too. Have a bit of sodding respect for another road user who actually takes up less space.


Sorry - it was sarcasm.

My son cycles to work every day and some of the encounters he has had with idiot drivers make me ill with worry.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

lostbear said:


> Sorry - it was sarcasm.
> 
> My son cycles to work every day and some of the encounters he has had with idiot drivers make me ill with worry.


Yes me too, sorry I'm being over sensitive. Cycling around here each day makes one a bit like that


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Muze said:


> I've never had an issue as a rider tbh, though we always kept to quiet lanes.
> 
> But as a driver, I met a skittish horse on a very narrow, bendy road and couldn't get past it safely, hung back as best as I could but the rider was anxious for me to overtake as they were struggling to control to horse, but I couldn't see round bends!
> 
> It's a two way thing IMO, drivers have to respect riders, riders need to make sure their horses are safe to be on roads


What an old thread brought back from the dead!
In my motorcycling days, I had an encounter with a massive horse on a narrow road. It wouldn't pass my motorbike until I pulled off onto the verge, stopped, switched the engine off and removed my helmet so it could see I was just a human on another sort of horse. I don't resent slowing down and making sure the most vulnerable road users - riders, horses, motorcyclists and cyclists, are safe. Tractors are fine too, their drivers are just going about their lawful business of producing our food, after all. We'd all be stuffed without them. Well, not stuffed; very hungry.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

Don't think it was me that resurrected the old thread...... though it's interesting to now see it from a driver's POV


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

porps said:


> why shouldnt farmers have to clean up after theyve let their animals make a mess? Why shouldnt horse owners have to pick up the crap if dog owners must?? Cos they think they can do what they bloody like thats the problem with country folk.


There is a flip side to the argument you know. How many townies are late for the school run because someone's pulled into their drive for a quick lunchbreak? How many townies have to ask couples with steamed up windows to please move their vehicle, because it might be after dark, but actually it's still only 6pm and you do need to collect your child on time from their club. How many townie pet owners have dog owners exercising on their lawns, causing their animals to abort or have heart attacks having been chased round a bit? We produce food for the country, we work every day of the year, we work 20 hour shifts for a month or so over lambing, we have one of the highest suicide rates of any profession, and townies, whilst jealously guarding their own gardens, get the hump if they're asked not to hump on someone else's property where children can see them.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

porps said:


> Why is it? they both stink. They can both be used for fertiliser. The main difference i guess is that dogs dont leave bucketfuls of theirs. So somehow horse poo is ok cos theres more of it? dont get that logic at all. But suree if you go on some field somewhere and stand in crap thats your own fault. If its on the roads or pavements it should be cleaned up. Then again horses shouldnt be on the roads or pavements in the first place eh


That reminds me: you wouldn't crap in someone's drive in the town, why is it OK to do so in a farm drive? Ditto sanitary towels, condoms and nappies? Townies are some of the dirtiest people around, because they pass through the countryside en route between towns, they treat it like one giant rubbish bin. I'd rather have goose poo around the farmyard any day than have to clean some stranger's condoms or sanitary towels out of my driveway. Disgusting creatures, townies.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)




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## Rosie64 (Feb 27, 2014)

newfiesmum said:


> No. Neither do cyclists, invalid carriages


I don't know what invalid carriages you are refering to in this but mobility scooters DO have to be taxed to be used on the roads , this I know for a fact as I have to do it, and in my opinion ANYTHING that uses the public highways should have to pay road tax


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Rosie64 said:


> I don't know what invalid carriages you are refering to in this but mobility scooters DO have to be taxed to be used on the roads , this I know for a fact as I have to do it, and in my opinion ANYTHING that uses the public highways should have to pay road tax


Excise duty (the UK doesn't have road tax) is there as a sliding scale on output, lots of vehicles, including cars are exempt as their out put is either very low or nill after manufacture.


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

We have a rag and bone man here who still uses horses, he doesn't clean up after them, so we have to do it as muck on the road can be dangerous for other road users, especially when he brings them out in winter and it freezes! 

Are those taking horses out on public land required to clean up after their horse? I ask as we get quite a lot here on our estate, it isn't just on the road, but also our pavements and sometimes even our driveways!


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Talking of horses, I had to follow three this morning trotting along three abreast, for about two miles, they turned off into Tesco, refueling!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Rosie64 said:


> I don't know what invalid carriages you are refering to in this but mobility scooters DO have to be taxed to be used on the roads , this I know for a fact as I have to do it, and in my opinion ANYTHING that uses the public highways should have to pay road tax


Anything? Horses (would these be taxed on size), pedestrians on country roads where there aren't pavements, prams, buggies and wheelchairs that have to go onto the road when cars are obstructing the pavement (assuming there is one), cyclists?.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

No, we don't have to carry large bags, jump off and poo pick after our horses. Horse poo is good for the environment, think of it as free fertiliser, and doesn't carry disease. Horses are not supposed to be ridden on pavements. Nor are they supposed to be ridden 3 abreast holding up traffic.

If I was a rag and bone man with a cart I probably would clear up after my horse and sell the manure, but getting off, clearing up and carrying a large bin bag with my ridden horse would be quite dangerous, far more dangerous than leaving free fertiliser.

People regularly ignore laws and the highway code, whether they're on horses, bikes, or in cars. People. You can't blame the horses and having a horse doesn't instantly turn someone into an ignorant idiot, however there's nothing to stop ignorant idiots buying horses.

We already pay taxes for the roads, we pay further taxes depending on the vehicle we want to use on the roads. If we take our horse for a walk, there's no further charge, same as when we ride a bike or walk on our own. If we choose to drive a car, we have to pay vehicle excise duty. The only difference when I take my horse for a walk, as opposed to when I take my dog for a walk, is I sit on my horse and I'm not allowed on the pavement. You want me to pay taxes to take my pet for a walk? There are a lot more places I can take my dog for a walk, but where my horse isn't allowed, so unfortunately if I want to keep her from going stir crazy I have to take her out on the roads sometimes.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Rosie64 said:


> I don't know what invalid carriages you are refering to in this but mobility scooters DO have to be taxed to be used on the roads , this I know for a fact as I have to do it, and in my opinion ANYTHING that uses the public highways should have to pay road tax


Anyone that pays council tax IS paying road tax.

Cars pay extra tax as they spew out harmful emissions.

I dont drive, but i am paying for use of and upkeep (lol) of the roads as i pay council tax. As such i am free to walk, cycle or horse ride along them.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

We had, years ago, several people who used horse & carts for various deliveries, milkman, breadman, rag&bone man etc. If a horse did a poo in the road it would be a free for all by neighbours to collect the muck. Road rage of a different kind.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Its in the highway code for drivers and motorcycle riders to be aware of countryside hazards including horse poo.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, I know this has been said before but, if I'm going to get off my horse to pick up poop, I'm going to need one hand for the shovel and one hand for the large bag. That leaves me no hands to hold my horse with on a busy road.

I'm not that tall, (or that young), and my horse is 16 hands. My chances of actually getting back on him, lugging a large, heavy bag, would be about zero.


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## Rosie64 (Feb 27, 2014)

Nonnie said:


> Cars pay extra tax as they spew out harmful emissions.


my mobility scooter is electric so has no emmissions but I still have to have road tax to be able to use it on the road


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

? I understood that although you might have to register a mobility scooter to use it on the road, you don't have to pay duty.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Rosie64 said:


> my mobility scooter is electric so has no emmissions but I still have to have road tax to be able to use it on the road


You dont pay for it though. You get a free disc. As does everyone with a class 3 invalid carriage.

So you arent paying road tax. Of course there is no such thing as road tax. Just vehicle excise duty.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Valanita said:


> We had, years ago, several people who used horse & carts for various deliveries, milkman, breadman, rag&bone man etc. If a horse did a poo in the road it would be a free for all by neighbours to collect the muck. Road rage of a different kind.





Valanita said:


> We had, years ago, several people who used horse & carts for various deliveries, milkman, breadman, rag&bone man etc. If a horse did a poo in the road it would be a free for all by neighbours to collect the muck. Road rage of a different kind.


Happy as a pumpkin in muck! I don't do anything, just shove in a seed, stick a cane near it to remind me where it is ( I'm not watering the entire muck heap!), once the plants are established I do absolutely zero, no removing so many from the end or other nonsense, just let muck, rain and sunshine do their job.


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

I feel the "horses don't have to be on roads" people are completely missing the fact that it is necessary for horses to be on roads. This is relevant to walkers who have to walk on roads too, and quite possibly cyclists, although I don't know much about cyclists in general. 

Horse riders probably would refer not to ride on roads, and most likely wouldn't if they could help it, unfortunately in most areas the bridleway / cycle path / public footpath network is so broken up and disjointed and in some cases simply non-existent that they don't have a choice in the matter.

I have two bridleways near me - they both lead to dead ends, or at least to a fairly well used road, go down track, turn around at top of track, follow track back, doesn't really help in getting from A to B does it?

You can connect the two paths - by riding on a road for a few miles before you get to the other.

With footpaths it is similar - paths often stop at roads, and you have to walk along a road to pick up the next path to continue your route, sometimes for quite a while - there are no pavements / verges to help the matter on some of these. On the other hand - you have paths that simply don't join up with anything - you walk a mile, the path ends at a house / business / brick wall and you turn back round - no real point to the path because it doesn't get you anywhere, or even create a nice little circular route, then people wonder why some landowners are not impressed with public rights of way on their land - to be fair to them I wouldn't be that impressed if I had to keep open a public footpath that served no purpose other than to let the public walk up to my garden fence then turn round again either :/ . Then of course there are the people that complain because farmer x put cows with calves in the field and rerouted the path and added a little electric fence to go around the field rather than through temporarily so that the public and his cows would be safe from each other - shoot yourself in the foot why don't you public footpath users. (and this is me talking as a regular and enthusiastic user of the public footpath network)

Slightly off topic there I know, but I think our right of way network being so disjointed means it adds to the problem where as if it was more thought out it could go a long way to solving the issue for everyone involved.


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## cat001 (Apr 12, 2008)

I have to admit that the title made me laugh a bit because what do we think roads were originally built for? Roads have been made to accommodate cars in recent years but horses and carts, bicycles etc are what they were originally purposed for.

Unfortunately car drivers fall into the trap of 'must go faster, must not slow down' which sadly is the modern pace of life, but we need to realise it's not as much of an inconvenience as we try and make ourselves believe. Slowing down below the allowed speed limit feels wrong but it really isn't a wrong thing to do, especially when circumstances call for it to happen. Driving in a car makes it feel like we must go faster but car drivers do need to recognise the road is shared and cars are really the late-comers of the road users, not the number one priority.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Horses and Cyclists (the MAMIL type) are the bane of the country lanes here, get 1 and you cannot get past, on the bends you cant risk it, on the straights there isnt enough room, tarmac roads were not laid for horses, just as they dont want cars in fields....cyclists are very brave considering they have no protection from cars......


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

To be honest I don't understand all the fuss. If you come up behind horses (or cyclists) then wait until it's safe to pass, it might cost you a couple of minutes of your life... likely much less! Why everyone is in such a rush to get everywhere defeats me, set off 10 minutes earlier & relax... you'll live longer


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> Horses and Cyclists (the MAMIL type) are the bane of the country lanes here, get 1 and you cannot get past, on the bends you cant risk it, on the straights there isnt enough room, tarmac roads were not laid for horses.


Don't be facile. We don't want to be on the roads, it can be terrifying, particularly if someone goes past on blues and twos, or some idiot refuses to recall their out of control off lead dog who's bouncing at the horse's heels. We are obliged, in many cases, to use roads, albeit briefly, to access bridle paths or the field we want to get to. It's hardly our idea of a nice tranquil ride out.

I could post some very graphic, covered in blood, dead horse pictures, but I don't want to upset people, so here's a non-graphic one.









The 16 year old rider was badly injured. The damage, if you look at horses killed on roads images on Google, is horrendous. All because of a stupid, impatient driver who has risked the horse, the rider, the car, him/herself because he or she wanted to get past and couldn't wait ten seconds for the rider to get out the way, which pretty much all riders will do, ASAP. Dumb. The stories I've seen on the horsey sites are appalling, lorry drivers clipping a horse in passing, lorries blocking the road then advancing so the rider has to go in a ditch, a van driver deliberately backing into a horse, the rider falling, the driver checking back and driving off.


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