# Sleep Deprivation



## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Hi all, firstly i'm new to the forum so hi everyone!
I was hoping someone out there would be able to help me.
I have 2 10 month old persian boys, both been neutered, and they are driving me mad at 3 o clock every morning, well not both of them, one in particular (Dylan).
He decides he's going to go under the bed and scratch the mattress and meow, then he goes and scratches the pine furniture, well actually he doesn't scratch just scrapes his paws so he makes a noise haha. Around this time i get them both out of the bedroom and close the door, but then the other kitty (Neo) doesn't like it, he paws at the door to come in, so i let him in and close the door so Dylan doesn't come in and be back to his tricks, but then he wants to go back out, i think you see the pattern.
They have loads of scratch trees/panels, toys, tunnels. You name it they have it, SPOILT! I've used a deterrent spray on the door, which did work, not anymore. I have a Feliway diffuser, doesnt work. I use a water spray bottle for when Dylan is pawing the furniture, and he aint bothered about that anymore.
I'm just hoping that as they get older they will snap out of it. Oh and i also play with them all evening to try and tire them out, nope doesn't work.
Please help you lovely people!!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Cats are naturally active at dusk and dawn, and it's starting to get light at 3am at least here in Scotland...

Suggest you shut them at least 2 doors away so you can't hear them.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Cats are naturally active at dusk and dawn, and it's starting to get light at 3am at least here in Scotland...
> 
> Suggest you shut them at least 2 doors away so you can't hear them.


Agreed. Blackout curtains solved the problem for me, first night


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Aaaah thanks guys, i have one of the bedroom blinds up as they like to sleep on the window sill and all through the house i have light curtains. 
Cant really shut them 2 doors away as their litter tray is in the bathroom, next to our bedroom, and i only have a tiny 2 up, 2 down house.
A lot of sites say to ignore them and they should eventually stop when they see they aren't getting any attention?!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Suggest you find an acceptable downstairs location for a night-time litter tray and shut them in with it.


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Thanks for your swift replying, my stairs lead straight down into my living room and my kitchen is tiny, no room to swing a cat (pardon the pun) .


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

They will quieten down as they get older and less playful. 

Meanwhile, as it is impossible for you to follow Oriental Slave's good advice because of your house's layout, can you not do what Satori suggests re: blackout curtains and blinds? 

Existing curtains can be relined fairly cheaply with blackout lining. Blackout blinds which you cut to fit your window, are available quite reasonably on line from John Lewis. 

Otherwise, all I can suggest is a good pair of earplugs for the next year or so!


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Yes im going to look into black out blinds, see how we get on with those, thanks everyone


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## ApolloHermes (May 13, 2013)

One of our ragdolls is doing the same I don't think we have slept properly for months! Tonight we are going to attempt the cat carrier method if our little boy doesn't behave. We just can't work out what he wants!


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

ApolloHermes said:


> One of our ragdolls is doing the same I don't think we have slept properly for months! Tonight we are going to attempt the cat carrier method if our little boy doesn't behave. We just can't work out what he wants!


Whats the cat carrier method?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

ApolloHermes said:


> One of our ragdolls is doing the same I don't think we have slept properly for months! Tonight we are going to attempt the cat carrier method if our little boy doesn't behave. We just can't work out what he wants!


I hope you don't mean you would shut him in a cat carrier the whole night? This would be a very unkind thing to do, as he would have no access to a litter tray if he needed to go, nor would be have any access to water if he were thirsty.

If he absolutely had to be shut in a cage any time for a serious reason (such as illness or injury) then you should buy a (folding) dog crate, that is big enough for your cat's bedding, litter tray and bowl of water. That would be the only acceptable way to restrict his movements for longer than about an hour.

If it is just a question of getting him settled at night, then as has been mentioned above, all you need do is shut him in a room such as the kitchen or sitting room, with his bed, litter tray, food and water, and then shut your bedroom door so there are 2 doors between you and him. Also ensure you have thick (blackout) curtains to block the daylight.

If you play interactively with him for an hour before bedtime, then give him a big bowl of tasty wet high meat protein food for his supper, he will be worn out and sleepy and this will get him through most of the night in any case. I promise you.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

ApolloHermes said:


> One of our ragdolls is doing the same I don't think we have slept properly for months! Tonight we are going to attempt the cat carrier method if our little boy doesn't behave. We just can't work out what he wants!


.... and in your previous post you talk about your plan to get them off wet food and onto dry. If you can't be bothered looking after them you might want to try the not having cats method. :mad2:


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Satori said:


> .... and in your previous post you talk about your plan to get them off wet food and onto dry. If you can't be bothered looking after them you might want to try the not having cats method. :mad2:


Hang on, no need to be quite so angry . The OP has obviously been looking online at solutions and has come on here for advice - surely we would all be better off helping rather than alienating him or her.

Also, lots of people believe that feeding just dry is fine, that doesn't make him a terrible owner just slightly misinformed .


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Aurelie said:


> Hang on, no need to be quite so angry . The OP has obviously been looking online at solutions and has come on here for advice - surely we would all be better off helping rather than alienating him or her.
> 
> Also, lots of people believe that feeding just dry is fine, that doesn't make him a terrible owner just slightly misinformed .


Read the post then. The change from wet to dry is to stop them disturbing her sleep. So we have a very minor training issue here and ApolloHermes (not the OP) is planning to try two solutions. 1. Withholding healthy food 2. Caging healthy cats. Both are cruel imho, and neither will work anyway. Damn right I am angry. I stand by my reaction.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Satori said:


> Read the post then. The change from wet to dry is to stop them disturbing her sleep. So we have a very minor training issue here and ApolloHermes (not the OP) is planning to try two solutions. 1. Withholding healthy food 2. Caging healthy cats. Both are cruel imho, and neither will work anyway. Damn right I am angry. I stand by my reaction.


Satori I did read the post and whilst I don't agree with the methods ApolloHermes (apologies OP - I didn't mean you in my first post) is suggesting, they are just that - suggestions from a google search or friends.

The fact that they have gone to the effort of posting on here for advice means they just want some help resolving their issues - the vast majority of people don't buy pets in order to purposely be cruel so there is no point demonising them.

If you look at the post by the OP in cat chat, they seem very open to the advice being offered.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi OP, Just wanted to say that we found blackout blinds really helpful for our naughty early morning monkeys. Just stumbled across the beneficial effect on cats when we put them in the kids rooms to try to stop them waking early in summertime but found they actually were more effective on the cat!!


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## ApolloHermes (May 13, 2013)

Satori said:


> Read the post then. The change from wet to dry is to stop them disturbing her sleep. So we have a very minor training issue here and ApolloHermes (not the OP) is planning to try two solutions. 1. Withholding healthy food 2. Caging healthy cats. Both are cruel imho, and neither will work anyway. Damn right I am angry. I stand by my reaction.


Firstly you have completely misunderstood me which may be down to me not explaining myself.

The idea to change their food has nothing to do with sleep it is something we were already thinking about due to thinking about their teeth and the fact they seem to have continuous wind which surely cannot be good for them or maybe they are just smelly and that's a fact of life :wink5: - also the way Apollo behaves when being fed is like a maniac it's like he winds himself up and gets anxious until he is fed which to me seems unsettling slightly but hey maybe all cats do this? And a friend of mine who has ragdolls of 8 years old was the one who told me that the food makes them like crack addicts - just her opinion!

As for the cat carrier that is a method that was found on the Internet just as this is the Internet also where people freely give advice - right or wrong who knows. For you to say I would cage my animals is completely wrong it was just a method seen. There is no way I would lock them up without food or water!

My animals are given 100% love and devotion to the point. They are always in our minds and we always put them first so to say otherwise when you don't know me, my cats or our living arrangements is unfair.

I came on this website to speak to other ragdoll owners to get tips, advice, support and guidance. Your post above reminds me how people can get treated on forums when all they want is a bit of help. I don't think I will be posting again. I didn't come on here for this.

To all of those who have helped thank you.


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## ApolloHermes (May 13, 2013)

chillminx said:


> I hope you don't mean you would shut him in a cat carrier the whole night? This would be a very unkind thing to do, as he would have no access to a litter tray if he needed to go, nor would be have any access to water if he were thirsty.
> 
> If he absolutely had to be shut in a cage any time for a serious reason (such as illness or injury) then you should buy a (folding) dog crate, that is big enough for your cat's bedding, litter tray and bowl of water. That would be the only acceptable way to restrict his movements for longer than about an hour.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this advice, I played with them both for an hour last night maybe more and we've had an amazing night with them. Both of them asleep on the bed only one or two wake ups. It has definitely helped so thanks.


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## ApolloHermes (May 13, 2013)

Aurelie said:


> Hang on, no need to be quite so angry . The OP has obviously been looking online at solutions and has come on here for advice - surely we would all be better off helping rather than alienating him or her.
> 
> Also, lots of people believe that feeding just dry is fine, that doesn't make him a terrible owner just slightly misinformed .


Thanks for this. You are right I am sure I am misinformed but I only want what's best for them which can mean trial and error or speaking to fellow cat owners!


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

ApolloHermes said:


> Thanks for this. You are right I am sure I am misinformed but I only want what's best for them which can mean trial and error or speaking to fellow cat owners!


If its any consolation, my BSH Claude would rather starve that stop eating a particular brand of dry (he is jaw droppingly fussy) despite numerous attempts to change his mind about wet food.


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## ApolloHermes (May 13, 2013)

Aurelie said:


> If its any consolation, my BSH Claude would rather starve that stop eating a particular brand of dry (he is jaw droppingly fussy) despite numerous attempts to change his mind about wet food.


Funny little characters aren't they, we must be lucky ours aren't too fussy then!

Ps both your cats are gorgeous!


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

ApolloHermes: I agree you have had a rather harsh response when you came asking for advice but please don't go off the forum because of it. I have learnt loads since coming on here, it has been fantastic. Sometimes members do make the mistake of making instant judgements about new posters that are wrong. I've done it myself.

Secondly, you mentioned wind? Sometimes kittens can be gassy because of infection or because of a diet that does not agree with them. Have they had any diarhhoea? I would firstly ensure that they are up to date with worming meds. Then I would tinker with their diet to see if you could find a brand of food that sorted out the problem. Butchers choice and Porta 21 are (I think) carb free which is good and may well be the breeders rationale for having them on it but not of the highest quality. Other posters will be able to recommend brands (my cats are on a special diet because of IBD so I don't know what 'normal' foods are good.
If you definitely going to keep on some dry (what are they on now?) the best brands are Applaws, Orijen and Acana. 
Again, my cats have never had it, but those who have cats on a raw diet such as Natural Instinct say that poos are distinctly less stinky so that might eliminate the wind problem.
Hope this long winded response helps!!


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## ApolloHermes (May 13, 2013)

Tao2 said:


> ApolloHermes: I agree you have had a rather harsh response when you came asking for advice but please don't go off the forum because of it. I have learnt loads since coming on here, it has been fantastic. Sometimes members do make the mistake of making instant judgements about new posters that are wrong. I've done it myself.
> 
> Secondly, you mentioned wind? Sometimes kittens can be gassy because of infection or because of a diet that does not agree with them. Have they had any diarhhoea? I would firstly ensure that they are up to date with worming meds. Then I would tinker with their diet to see if you could find a brand of food that sorted out the problem. Butchers choice and Porta 21 are (I think) carb free which is good and may well be the breeders rationale for having them on it but not of the highest quality. Other posters will be able to recommend brands (my cats are on a special diet because of IBD so I don't know what 'normal' foods are good.
> If you definitely going to keep on some dry (what are they on now?) the best brands are Applaws, Orijen and Acana.
> ...


Thanks for the reply on the dry food. We were feeding them royal canon but are now feeding them an organic one (names slipped my mind). I'm interested in doing some research on what ones are good and nutritious for them.

Poos are okay! No runny ones so maybe it's just their diet slightly not agreeing with them.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

ApolloHermes said:


> Funny little characters aren't they, we must be lucky ours aren't too fussy then!
> 
> Ps both your cats are gorgeous!


Thank you


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Tao2 said:


> Hi OP, Just wanted to say that we found blackout blinds really helpful for our naughty early morning monkeys. Just stumbled across the beneficial effect on cats when we put them in the kids rooms to try to stop them waking early in summertime but found they actually were more effective on the cat!!


Thank you very much Tao2, i think im going to invest in some black out blinds or curtains, would it make a difference which, do you think?? Blinds or curtains? Also they like to lay on the window sill so i have to keep one of the bedroom blinds up a bit haha.


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Although saying this, it is still dark when they are getting me up :/ so will blackout blinds make a difference???


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Are you sure it is completely *dark*, or more like dusk/dawn? Cats are crepuscular animals, meaning they are at their most active at dusk and dawn. This is the time when in the wild they would do most of their hunting. 

Their excellent instincts will enable them to recognise the approaching dawn just from a slight lightening in the sky (which they can see from the window I imagine?) 

I have always found blackout blinds or thick curtains have kept my cats asleep for longer in the mornings. In contrast, if curtains are left open, they are awake before dawn. 

In view of the fact they like to eat at dawn and dusk, it might also be worth putting some tasty wet food in an autofeeder, timed to open just before dawn. 

Do not leave dry food down all night as it only encourages cats to be wakeful and snack all night long, instead of going into a deep sleep.


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Oooh an autofeeder, will look into that but they arent really too bothered about wet food. Erm they get me up at half 3 so yeah id say it is still dark, im willing to try though so will invest in some blackouts and see, jeez they sound really fussy my kitties don't they haha, thank you everyone for your comments


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Maybe try and wean them onto wet food -- so much better for their long term health than dry.


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Now something else has happened, after shutting them out of the bedroom at 3am as usual, I heard one of them scratching the carpet, went out to look and Neo had peed outside our door which is also outside the bathroom door where his clean tray is! I don't know what's going on, Neo usually just goes and sleeps in the spare room :/


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

And again this morning, Neo peed on the bathroom rug, in front of the litter tray, i hoe he hasnt got an infection or anything


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sounds suspiciously like he may have a UTI as he is peeing right next to the litter tray on a soft surface. I should get him checked out at the vet's.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Skala, If it is completely out of character for him, I think you should follow Chillminxs advice and get him checked out. If he has had the odd accident, especially if it has been in that spot, then it is worth getting a special pet urine cleaner. They can still smell the urine when it is not detectable to us so once an area smells of wee to them they are more likely to do a repeat.
Good luck, keep us posted.


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Hi all, we now have tin foil up on the furniture Dylan usually scratches and its seems to be doing the trick he's now using his scratch post in front of the said furniture haha. Neo isnt peeing on the carpets anymore however i looked in the bath this morning and he's been in there instead  So will see how we go. Going to invest in some black out curtains/blinds once i have been paid so hopefully will be sorted for good, once again thank you everyone i just have to keep an eye on Neo


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Skala, I'm afraid the problem has still not been resolved if Neno is now peeing in the bath. 

Either he has a urinary infection/cystitis or there is something upsetting him about the litter trays. 

How many trays do you have? The rule of thumb is one per cat plus one extra, so with 2 cats you need 3 large litter trays. They may like a mix of open trays and hooded trays, but beware of hooded trays, as many are not tall enough for an adult cat to squat upright in comfortably. 

If you already have 3 trays, then I'd add an extra one, and also try experimenting with different litter in the extra tray. Most cats like the cereal based clumping ones like OKO Plus. 

In case it is a bladder irritation (as opposed to an infection) increase his fluid intake and cut out all dry food.


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Thanks for that, i'll put an extra tray down without a hood and see how we go


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## Skala (May 9, 2013)

Hi all, quick update, Neo isnt peeing in the bath anymore now we have put an extra tray down, i have blocked under the bed with storage boxes and put sticky back plastic on the furniture where Dylan scratches and thats now sorted, got blackout blinds for spare room, bathroom and curtains for the living room, just waiting to be measured up in our bedroom and i think that will sort it, as Dylan is still meowing at around half 3 but is getting better, so once our bedroom is blacked out i think we will be fine, thank you all once again


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## maverick786us (Jul 24, 2013)

I have a similar issue. My cat spends his day time somewhere outside during summer and in the night, have his meal, and then again goes outside and in the mid night comes and starts mewoing outside my room. Since my wife is allergic to cats, therefore I can't make him sleep in my couch. He follows this cycle that he goes out and then come and 2-3 times disturbe my sleep.

Last night I kept him in the cage, and placed the cage away from my room so that i could'nt hear his voice. But I am not sure if it is fair to cage them for such a long time. Will it affect their health?

How can I train my cat to remain quiet when everyone is sleeping?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

It should not be necessary to cage him at night, and is unfair to do this to him. 

He is coming in at midnight and crying because he is hungry. If you want to allow him access to the outdoors all night long then you are encouraging him to be active and wakeful at times when you want to sleep. If he is active and wakeful he will get hungry. 

I suggest you buy an autofeeder (amazon sells them) and put in a good serving of tasty wet food for him, with the timer set to open at say 11 pm. Put food in the second dish timed to open at 6.30 am (unless you are up by then to give him brekkie) 

You can buy autofeeders that have little freezer packs to put underneath the dish to keep it cool in hot weather. 

Place the filled autofeeder in the kitchen and shut the kitchen door so he cannot get upstairs and cry at your bedroom door.


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## maverick786us (Jul 24, 2013)

chillminx said:


> It should not be necessary to cage him at night, and is unfair to do this to him.
> 
> He is coming in at midnight and crying because he is hungry. If you want to allow him access to the outdoors all night long then you are encouraging him to be active and wakeful at times when you want to sleep. If he is active and wakeful he will get hungry.
> 
> ...


Thank you.
He has strange eating habit. He never eats whole food. He has the habit of eating few stuff then leaves and by the time he comes back the flavor is lost and he again ask for fresh food.


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