# Vet said Bakers dog food is fine



## Frollie (Aug 10, 2013)

Hiya,

My dog currently eats Bakers, which I have recently learnt is horrendous and I now feel terrible about ever feeding it to him. Anyway, we took him to a new vet today to have his annual vaccinations and I asked him the best way to phase in new dog food. However, he said Bakers was fine and there was no need to change; that I should just be happy Ollie was eating dog food.

I've now read a lot about Bakers and it's clear to me it's not at all fine, so what am I to make of the fact the vet said it was? Do think I would be better off not going back to him?

Thanks!


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Most vets know diddly squat about dog foods. 

To change a diet, you add in the new food to the old, gradually adding more new and less old over a period of about 2 weeks. 

If you go raw, then just go straight ahead and change. 

Glad you're deciding to change foods. :thumbsup:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm glad you decided to change foods I'm rather worried about your vet recommending what is arguably one of the worst foods out there though :eek6:. Then again you wouldn't go to your gp for nutritional advice you would go to a nutritionist and your regular vet is essentially a gp. If you feel he knows what he's doing in other areas and isn't going to push bad food then keep going.

Switch over slowly especially if you're feeding a food with actual meat in in compared to the tiny bit of meat for flavouring in bakers. Add a bit to his regular food and then up the amount.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Frollie said:


> Hiya,
> 
> My dog currently eats Bakers, which I have recently learnt is horrendous and I now feel terrible about ever feeding it to him. Anyway, we took him to a new vet today to have his annual vaccinations and I asked him the best way to phase in new dog food. However, he said Bakers was fine and there was no need to change; that I should just be happy Ollie was eating dog food.
> 
> ...


Most vets do less than two days on canine nutrition towards their qualifications, and that's sponsored by one of a handful of companies, royal canin and hills spring to mind, where vets earn a commission for selling this food. So at least he didn't try to sell you an alternative. However, he's obviously not very knowledgeable about canine nutrition; first of all, research the dog food you want to switch to, and then take it from there. If it's a commercial food, you simply add a little of the new food, and gradually switch the ratios until they're onto the new food. With raw feeding, it depends on the age of the dog(s) and how they take to it, some are easier than others, I always tell people to switch gradually in case their dog is one of the ones that has a problem, it doesn't happen often, but if you are that little bit more cautious, you are more likely to spot it.


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## Frollie (Aug 10, 2013)

Thanks for the replies!



Nicky10 said:


> I'm glad you decided to change foods I'm rather worried about your vet recommending what is arguably one of the worst foods out there though :eek6:. Then again you wouldn't go to your gp for nutritional advice you would go to a nutritionist and your regular vet is essentially a gp. If you feel he knows what he's doing in other areas and isn't going to push bad food then keep going.
> 
> Switch over slowly especially if you're feeding a food with actual meat in in compared to the tiny bit of meat for flavouring in bakers. Add a bit to his regular food and then up the amount.


He also said he'd do a teeth cleaning with the castration but I read that most vets don't do that so as to prevent cross-contamination. Should I be worried?



SLB said:


> Most vets know diddly squat about dog foods.
> 
> To change a diet, you add in the new food to the old, gradually adding more new and less old over a period of about 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


I don't think raw would work. Both because Ollie is really fussy and also because I doubt my dad wants raw food around the house. However, I really like the idea that a lot of people on here seem to have of using a dehydrator to make my own treats. Would he be okay with eating dehydrated meat if he's not on a raw diet?



Sleeping_Lion said:


> Most vets do less than two days on canine nutrition towards their qualifications, and that's sponsored by one of a handful of companies, royal canin and hills spring to mind, where vets earn a commission for selling this food. So at least he didn't try to sell you an alternative. However, he's obviously not very knowledgeable about canine nutrition; first of all, research the dog food you want to switch to, and then take it from there. If it's a commercial food, you simply add a little of the new food, and gradually switch the ratios until they're onto the new food. With raw feeding, it depends on the age of the dog(s) and how they take to it, some are easier than others, I always tell people to switch gradually in case their dog is one of the ones that has a problem, it doesn't happen often, but if you are that little bit more cautious, you are more likely to spot it.


Due to Ollie's fussiness, I'm not sure how successful the switchover is going to be. I tried to change the food once before at Christmas but he'd just pick around the new food and then starve himself. I didn't have time to properly phase it in as I had to go back to uni and then he's usually by himself throughout the day so my dad didn't want to leave him hungry all day. He generally eats two smaller non-dog food meals a day and then we top up with dry food to meet his daily calorie requirements, so in this case he'd probably just be willing to starve himself and wait for the next meal rather than try the dog food, right?

This is quite frustrating really, I'm trying to improve his quality of life but he's making it so difficult!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

How old is Ollie and does he need a teeth cleaning or is it just a standard package? If he needs it then it may as well be done while he's under for the castration.


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## Frollie (Aug 10, 2013)

He's five. I don't think his teeth are too bad, just a bit of tartar buildup.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Both rescues I've had were considerably older, and both switched to raw, not because I wanted them to at first, but because they were so fussy, after trying numerous other foods, that was what they seemed to do best on. 

At five years of age, if he's just being fussy, wait him out. Bakers is bad for him, dogs don't have a very good sense of taste, but their sense of smell is much stronger than ours, so Bakers will smell much more appetising. If you need to, blitz a mix of Bakers and the food you choose in a blender, and then add a bit of water so it's like a porridge consistency. That way, you can get him to eat some of the new food, and see if he's ok, or if there are any reactions. To be honest, Bakers is so awful if he's pretty healthy, I would genuinely consider switching him and going cold turkey with him!


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Frollie said:


> I don't think raw would work. Both because Ollie is really fussy and also because I doubt my dad wants raw food around the house. However, I really like the idea that a lot of people on here seem to have of using a dehydrator to make my own treats. Would he be okay with eating dehydrated meat if he's not on a raw diet?


I only mentioned raw because I didn't know what you were planning to move him onto. No pressure from me 

Dehydrated meat is good for treats but you can get raw freeze dried. K9 Natural UK :: K9 Natural Freeze Dried

Just works out a little more expensive than raw feeding. But still the goodness.


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## Frollie (Aug 10, 2013)

Ah thanks! I'll try that. 

I'm learning so much from this forum and I've only know of its existence for a couple of days!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I know he may not eat them but a raw bone a couple of times a week is the best way to clean his teeth. Even if you don't go full raw you can get some benefits.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

That just goes to show how much your vet knows about nutrition. If he/she's that clueless I'd change vets in case its not the only thing he/she knows naff all about.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I have very little faith in vets round here but at least the vet you went to didn;t tell you Bakers was rubbish and so you must change to whichever brand that the surgery was selling.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

There are countless dogs being fed on Bakers and other so called "bad" foods, who do ok on it - I am sure there are some who don't, but I do feel some people get a bit anal about feeding. 

Each to their own - according to knowledge, preference, price, convenience, etc.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> There are countless dogs being fed on Bakers and other so called "bad" foods, who do ok on it - I am sure there are some who don't, but I do feel some people get a bit anal about feeding.
> 
> Each to their own - according to knowledge, preference, price, convenience, etc.


It's not being anal, it's about doing what you believe is best for your dog(s). I'm sure a lot of the people feeding Bakers don't know that it's fully of awful ingredients, and believe what the packaging tells them, after all, it's not going to sell very well if it had the truth on the front of the packaging. I'm not sure something reading, "full of additives and inferior meat" would sell all that well!!

If a parent does their best to ensure their children eat good, nutritious food, and avoid things like McDonalds, reformed meats, processed foods, and additives in general, they're not being *anal*, they're being good parents, doing the best for their children in the long run.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Back to vet school for him I think!! 

My cousin is currently training to be a vet at RVC in London, next time I see her I am going to ask her how much they do on nutrition and what sort of stuff they cover. Food can cause so many health (and behaviour) issues in dogs, I find it hard to believe that they only do two days worth of cover on it, when they are at uni for years!

It's just really a matter of researching your food. I feed mine dry (me and my parents all feed the same food as they can all eat the same stuff when we're looking after each others dogs, and can order it in bulk) and me and my dad have spent a LOT of time looking for a good, healthy dry food. I don't have a freezer big enough for raw and tbh I find dry food more convenient, Amber scoffs it down and looks healthy & has a glossy lovely coat and good poos, so it works for her and it works for me. I would love to feed raw but at the moment it's not the best option and as I say, she does fine on her biscuits anyway. I do buy the odd pack of raw meat and give it to her as a treat, but I can't feed it fully at the moment.

Good luck in your search for a new food - my mum and dad used to feed our old mongrel on Bakers and he ended up having his teeth removed and was riddled with cancer - which started in his mouth, and I do often wonder if his poor diet caused/contributed to it


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

To put an alternative opinion out there (and I've got my tin hat at the ready for the responses), maybe the fact that the OP has said that their dog is fussy has lead the vet to suggest that Baker's is fine.

Afterall, at least the dog is eating something!

My parents used to have a really fussy Yorkshire Terrier who simply would not eat any sort of dog food, but would eat Bonios, Shape biscuits, Ritz crackers etc. When my mum mentioned this to the vet the vet responded that his body condition was great, his coat and teeth were great, results of a full blood test all came out great etc etc so the vet concluded that it was fine to continue like this.

Clever vet if you ask me. Having lost the previous Yorkshire Terrier at 17 years old, they now have a new one. And apparently he is just as fussy. I advised them to offer the food at mealtimes, remove the bowl after 10 mins as he wouldn't starve himself, but apparently he did.

Of course they were still putting down a variety of treats for him, giving him a Ritz cracker when they had a mid-morning/afternoon coffee etc etc

I tried to explain the whole 'starve him till he eats' thing includes treats, but we've concluded that they are happy to spoil him and pander to his fussy eating habits. 

At least he's not eating Baker's eh?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

PennyGSD said:


> To put an alternative opinion out there (and I've got my tin hat at the ready for the responses), maybe the fact that the OP has said that their dog is fussy has lead the vet to suggest that Baker's is fine.
> 
> Afterall, at least the dog is eating something!
> 
> ...


Ooooooh I hope that tin hat is a good one   

Slightly confused, did the dog actually starve itself then? Or were your parents soft enough to let him get away with just persevering until the dog got what it wanted? Just read the bit re treats, so it wasn't *actually* starving itself, because it was getting at least partly what it wanted.

Lots of dogs are fussy, my Labs aren't, but Rhuna decided she didn't want a pork bone this morning, so it went back in the fridge. She'll certainly be hungry enough to eat her tea! I know some people might think that's mean, but she's in good condition generally, she's certainly not going to starve by missing one meal, and if she isn't *that* interested in it, then I'm not going to waste my time getting her something different from everyone else. I just wish the Labs would turn their nose up once or twice, I keep reducing their portion sizes, it doesn't help that they keep switching bones when I'm not looking!!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It's not being anal, it's about doing what you believe is best for your dog(s). I'm sure a lot of the people feeding Bakers don't know that it's fully of awful ingredients, and believe what the packaging tells them, after all, it's not going to sell very well if it had the truth on the front of the packaging. I'm not sure something reading, "full of additives and inferior meat" would sell all that well!!
> 
> If a parent does their best to ensure their children eat good, nutritious food, and avoid things like McDonalds, reformed meats, processed foods, and additives in general, they're not being *anal*, they're being good parents, doing the best for their children in the long run.


I said SOME people  I was not referring to anyone in particular and not in relation to any responses on this thread nor in reference to any particular food or type of food. I was merely expressing an opinion - not trying to start an argument about what is right or wrong. Merely suggesting to the OP that she should suit herself 

Just because a dog is fed on Bakers for it's entire life does not mean it is going to have poor health, bad teeth and die young.

My opinion remains the same


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> I said SOME people  I was not referring to anyone in particular and not in relation to any responses on this thread nor in reference to any particular food or type of food. I was merely expressing an opinion - not trying to start an argument about what is right or wrong. Merely suggesting to the OP that she should suit herself
> 
> Just because a dog is fed on Bakers for it's entire life does not mean it is going to have poor health, bad teeth and die young.
> 
> My opinion remains the same


Very true, but would you rather make an informed choice about what you feed your dog, or remain blissfully ignorant? Personally, it's my own belief that part of owning a dog should include knowing about good nutrition, and feeding the best you can for your dog. Not everyone can afford the best quality commercial food, or raw feed, but there are plenty of options out there. The fact is Bakers is on most supermarket shelves, and people just believe the packaging. But then there are also obviously enough people who eat at McDonalds and the like, which never ceases to amaze me!!


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Ooooooh I hope that tin hat is a good one
> 
> Slightly confused, did the dog actually starve itself then? Or were your parents soft enough to let him get away with just persevering until the dog got what it wanted? Just read the bit re treats, so it wasn't *actually* starving itself, because it was getting at least partly what it wanted.


LOL - that was my point really. No, it wasn't being starved, although as far as my far too soft parents were concerned they were starving the poor mite to death and it still wasn't eating, therefore the food was at fault. Nothing to do with the fact that they're completely spoiling him.

It's not something I either condone or would do myself. Although I wonder how strong I'd be when faced with huge saucer eyes in a cute little face begging for something tastier than the food I've put in the bowl. Never encountered that problem before as I've always had large ex-strays. If you put cardboard in their dinner bowls they'd eat it. After all, it must be food if it's in the dinner bowl eh?


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I found a link on a post of CinnamonToast's elsewhere.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=426&cat=all

Just because some dogs do well on it, doesn't mean it's good for them.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

My mams lab has been on bakers her entire life , well a switch between bakers and Webbox Prime Complete Food depending on what my Mam can get her hands on and Hilife Moist Menus for her breakfast every morning.

Now these are something I would never feed to my two it suits my Mam's lab to the ground as anything else she has tried hasn't really sat well with her stomach. 

She's even had comments from breeders asking her how she gets her coat so shiny and how her teeth are still sparking white, never had skin problems or digestive problems not a single trip to the vet (other than check ups) since she was 9 weeks old and caught kennel cough, and the vet is happy with her health , teeth and coat. 

Again it's a case of at least she's eating something, as most things go through her like nobodies business!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Very true, but would you rather make an informed choice about what you feed your dog, or remain blissfully ignorant? Personally, it's my own belief that part of owning a dog should include knowing about good nutrition, and feeding the best you can for your dog. Not everyone can afford the best quality commercial food, or raw feed, but there are plenty of options out there. The fact is Bakers is on most supermarket shelves, and people just believe the packaging. But then there are also obviously enough people who eat at McDonalds and the like, which never ceases to amaze me!!


I absolutely agree with you. The point I was making is that SOME people make others feel they are bad dog owners for taking the easy option and feeding one of the cheaper commercial foods. It's great that everyone shares there experience and knowledge and it helps people to make informed decisions. However, even after knowing all the facts and wishing your dog would eat the "perfect" food - if it won't and it does fine on the cheap stuff - no-one should beat themselves up about it.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> I absolutely agree with you. The point I was making is that SOME people make others feel they are bad dog owners for taking the easy option and feeding one of the cheaper commercial foods.


Well the trouble is, what you are paying more for with Bakers, is not decent ingredients but for their marketing. You can get similar quality for far less. For the same price you can get something a lot better.

Is it really right to take an EASY option or is the long term health of a dog important enough to invest a bit of time just checking possible alternatives?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

GOBLIN - 

Yes, it is OK to take the easy option if that suits someone and they shouldn't feel guilty for doing it either.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Well just my thoughts on this.. I'm looking after a pug who is on Bakers, and my god I hate what waste comes out of it's backside that would be enough to put me off, and I don't know if it's a Pug thing, or this dogs thing, but it never ever ever ever stops, it's sad to see, it's like it's on drugs...

So when it's owners come home, I'll recommend a different food, and it's about being "low cost" which I don't think it is in this case, more the glorified TV ads, I'll recommend a low cost dog food... My 5 month old pup is less hyper than this Pug it's like a pig on speed...:yikes:


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Frollie said:


> Hiya,
> 
> My dog currently eats Bakers, which I have recently learnt is horrendous and I now feel terrible about ever feeding it to him. Anyway, we took him to a new vet today to have his annual vaccinations and I asked him the best way to phase in new dog food. However, he said Bakers was fine and there was no need to change; that I should just be happy Ollie was eating dog food.
> 
> ...


I do wish vets would keep to their own expertise and not try to impose their own bizarre ideas on others. He is a vet, a doctor for animals, not a nutritionist or a trainer or a behaviourist or anything else of that nature.

Good luck with your dog. As said, add a little of the new food a little more every day till you have replaced the rubbish.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> GOBLIN -
> 
> Yes, it is OK to take the easy option if that suits someone and they shouldn't feel guilty for doing it either.


I agree with your post above, but I can't agree with taking the easy option if you know it's not *good* for your dog. Ok, you could gamble, and hope your dog will do ok with [email protected] food, but is it worth risking their health, knowing you're feeding them such poor ingredients and chemicals that are known to cause cancer? I'm afraid I can't agree with that bit, there are much better foods than Bakers that are cheaper.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> GOBLIN -
> 
> Yes, it is OK to take the easy option if that suits someone and they shouldn't feel guilty for doing it either.


Even it it's bad for your dogs health?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I agree with your post above, but I can't agree with taking the easy option if you know it's not *good* for your dog. Ok, you could gamble, and hope your dog will do ok with [email protected] food, but is it worth risking their health, knowing you're feeding them such poor ingredients and chemicals that are known to cause cancer? I'm afraid I can't agree with that bit, there are much better foods than Bakers that are cheaper.


Ok 

I think we've flogged this one to death


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

If its the only thing a dog will eat even with tough love or the only thing that a dog can tolerate fine but its not cheap and because it's easy isn't an excuse.

People can learn what's good dog food. I did Buster ate pedigree and cesar the first year and I thought it was good


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> GOBLIN -
> 
> Yes, it is OK to take the easy option if that suits someone and they shouldn't feel guilty for doing it either.


So it's okay to take the easy option and never socialize your dog? It's okay to take the easy option and never take your dog for a walk?

Owning a dog is owning a life. It's not easy, its a responsibility. You'll not convince me otherwise. It isn't difficult in the UK to find alternatives far better than bakers.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I often wonder if people who are so down on feeding Bakers to their dogs, do they stuff their kids with junk food. I have a feeling the answer is yes.

and NO I don't feed Bakers.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I said SOME people  I was not referring to anyone in particular and not in relation to any responses on this thread nor in reference to any particular food or type of food. I was merely expressing an opinion - not trying to start an argument about what is right or wrong. Merely suggesting to the OP that she should suit herself
> 
> *Just because a dog is fed on Bakers for it's entire life does not mean it is going to have poor health, bad teeth and die young.*
> 
> My opinion remains the same


Probably not, but knowing what I know if I fed Bakers and my dog got cancer at 10years old I'd always blame myself because it could well be that food that caused it. For something as simple as food it's worth changing over to soothe those doubts.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Just read on another thread that the vet said it's ok to put a bitch through having a litter to make her feel better about losing her last litter  

There are a few numpty vets around!!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> GOBLIN -
> 
> Yes, it is OK to take the easy option if that suits someone and they shouldn't feel guilty for doing it either.


It's not even the easy option though. How easier could it be than to order online and get more than a months supply delivered to your door? (something that you can do for every good brand)


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> It's not even the easy option though. How easier could it be than to order online and get more than a months supply delivered to your door? (something that you can do for every good brand)


Not everyone likes using the internet, so I can see that as an argument, but even at Morrisons they stock Harringtons, which is a million times better than Bakers, so other supermarkets must equally have something *better* on their shelves.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Goblin said:


> So it's okay to take the easy option and never socialize your dog? It's okay to take the easy option and never take your dog for a walk?
> 
> Owning a dog is owning a life. It's not easy, its a responsibility. You'll not convince me otherwise. It isn't difficult in the UK to find alternatives far better than bakers.


No and no.

Yes it is. No it is not, and yes it is. Not trying to. No it isn't.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> Probably not, but knowing what I know if I fed Bakers and my dog got cancer at 10years old I'd always blame myself because it could well be that food that caused it. For something as simple as food it's worth changing over to soothe those doubts.


OK. Bit harsh on yourself, but your prerogative.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Considering that practically ANY food is made up of better ingredients than Bakers, then yes, it so IS easy to find better alternatives to Bakers in the UK. 

Anyone who can't be bothered to make their way to a pet shop can find better alternatives in any of the supermarkets.

Just my opinion mind


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## Frollie (Aug 10, 2013)

PennyGSD said:


> To put an alternative opinion out there (and I've got my tin hat at the ready for the responses), maybe the fact that the OP has said that their dog is fussy has lead the vet to suggest that Baker's is fine.
> 
> Afterall, at least the dog is eating something!
> 
> ...


Thing is, the vet didn't know he was fussy. I didn't like him anyway, he was unnecessarily rough, and quite terse, with Ollie when he was checking his teeth. I've gone back to my old vet now.

My family don't understand the 'starve him' thing either. I didn't give Ollie any lunch as he hadn't eaten his breakfast and my dad acted like I'd terribly mistreated him. They've spoilt him far too much and I'm trying really hard to get him back on the right track before I go back to uni in October but they're all making it so difficult. :glare:


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## RachRubyx (Jan 23, 2013)

Wow seems a battle going on lol

I've had vets like yours in the past some are good some are crap bit like doctors really. Prehaps to some its just a job, I mean you have to kind of like animals to be a vet but there is people who love animals and animals are their life. You can tell this by how the handle animals and interact with them. At my my recent vets we have 3 brilliant vets and one who doesn't have a clue.

I always think you should try another vet if your not happy, you don't even have to move practice just prehaps ask to see another vet. Beware most will try and sell you whatever food they generally advertise in surgery as they earn commision. Its better than the likes of your pedigree and bakers but you can get cheaper and better alternatives yourself.

My own dog is very fussy with dry food and thats why we switched her to raw plus many other reasons. However I know you aren't comfort with this and thats fine I totally understand. If I was you i'd email a few companies asking for free samples. Sometimes they may charge a couple quid for samples but you normally get a decent amount and its usually the higher end brands. I found through ordering samples my dog prefers poultry like chicken and duck and small size kibble. Have a little look at Sixstars dry and wet food threads its excellent and tells you how much the food is how much u feed and ingredients.

Small dogs can be fussier especially if they don't have big appetiates to begin with. You could try feeding wet (its more expensive but at doesn't cost that much) I like wainwrights wet food from Pets at home its a decent price and good ingriedents. You'd probs feed about 1/4 of the pack a day if your dog is same size as mine (8kg Cavy)

I know how you feel about parents its been a constant battle with my mother who I live with who thinks its cruel to not stuff there faces every 2 seconds with treats and food. The wars we have had over feeding the cat whiskers and her not understanding that the cat likes it because its full of sugar and addictives. We now feed botiza and butchers for cats and its same price as whiskers more or less.

My own dog use to be on bakers (she never was a big kibble dog) the meaty chunks one as it was all she would eat and ceaser wet food. I thought that as they one of the more expensive brands then it be better boy was I wrong. I tell people now you may as well feed the cheapest supermarket brand as its the same as pedigree etc, not that its right but no point in paying more for what you think is a better product.

You can pick up Butchers for dogs wet food at supermarket which is alright and also I get Vets Kitchen dry for my cat but they do dog as well and thats also quite good. Harringtons isn't all that bad there is better ( for instance Skinners duck and rice is very good for the price and around £20 for 15kg) but its better price and quality than bakers. It does have quite alot of maize which isn't great for dogs.

Plus I don't agree that feeding Bakers is ok at all. Fair enough if you don't know better but if you have actually been told its full of crap and not even bothered to research and find an alternative its lazy in my opinion. Humans can sometimes smoke and drink all there lives and live to a grand old age whilst people who fit and healthy die young. Doesn't mean its right.

My dog is epiletic but her seizures have stopped and been seizure free for 2 years (woop touch wood) and I feel it could possible be related to giving her a better diet.

My partners lab was on Asda's Hero food and suffered with ear infections but they didn't relate that it could be food allergies and the vet didn't either. Instead they prescriped ear drops and allergy tablets. I wrote a quick thread on another board (before i knew about here) and found alternatives that was around the same price as Asda's Hero (Was Autarky Salmon and Rice, now on Skinners Duck and Rice) and guess what ear infection was gone and no more biting and licking paws. Just because your pet doesn't die or develop cancer from having the likes of bakers doesn't mean there health isn't affected. However if you dog generally won't eat nothing and its starving to death then obvs any food better than nothing. Though I don't know any animal that turns down real meat such as chicken and you could always do home cooking adding supplements if worst came to worst.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

RachRubyx said:


> you could always do home cooking adding supplements if worst came to worst.


As with raw feeding though, home cooking needs careful research  Learn the pros and cons. I know that, for many, finding a better commercial food is the only acceptable option.


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## RachRubyx (Jan 23, 2013)

Goblin said:


> As with raw feeding though, home cooking needs careful research  Learn the pros and cons. I know that, for many, finding a better commercial food is the only acceptable option.


Yeah I was saying as a last resort if you tried all the foods in the world and starving method for days there is always home cooking.

I think the OP will find a good alternative in time but just don't feel that they have to rush into anything. If you rush you get upset stomachs and so on. Also normally food like Bakers are high in sugar and addictives like whiskers and you get the problem of dogs being actual addicted to it. Same as bad food for humans like sweets humans as generally naturally addictive to sugar which is bad for us. So think of it as kinda weaning them off drugs.

My cat won't touch whiskers or felix now haha but she had to go to kitty rehab for a while to shake the craving and to eat better alternatives haha. Can't really comment on the dog as she wasn't that bothered about bakers or ceasers much prefered proper meat which she gets with raw.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

PennyGSD said:


> It's not something I either condone or would do myself. Although I wonder how strong I'd be when faced with huge saucer eyes in a cute little face begging for something tastier than the food I've put in the bowl. Never encountered that problem before as I've always had large ex-strays. If you put cardboard in their dinner bowls they'd eat it. After all, it must be food if it's in the dinner bowl eh?


Just my experience of a dog that doesn't like eating. She doesn't sit waiting for something better - she'll walk away from her bowl and take herself out of the room. Some dogs are 'fussy', and may play the pleading game, other dogs are almost anorexic and just don't enjoy eating.

Although Bess seems to have picked up now, it has crossed my mind to get a bag of Bakers just because so many dogs like the taste. I haven't had to resort to that, and hope I never will. Bess is fed raw which means I can play about with lots of different types to find something to interest her. But at times it's very hard.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> Probably not, but knowing what I know if I fed Bakers and my dog got cancer at 10years old I'd always blame myself because it could well be that food that caused it. For something as simple as food it's worth changing over to soothe those doubts.





Lurcherlad said:


> OK. Bit harsh on yourself, but your prerogative.


My dad had a gorgeous Golden Retriever, Ella. She was the softest dog ever, she was just a big ball of love.

My dad fed her the worst possible food here in NZ - a fabulous mix of cereals and animal by-products, and of course, colourings. I don't know why, it was most likely just ignorance, not knowing that there was anything wrong with what he was doing. To be fair, none of us thought there was anything wrong with it, we just didn't think about it.

Ella had the most horrible, greasy coat. She STANK. She moulted like it was going out of fashion. And at 8 years old she got a brain tumour. Do I blame my dad - no, he didn't know. Do I blame the food - hell yeah. Would I feed my dog this food - never in a million, kazillion years.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> My dad had a gorgeous Golden Retriever, Ella. She was the softest dog ever, she was just a big ball of love.
> 
> My dad fed her the worst possible food here in NZ - a fabulous mix of cereals and animal by-products, and of course, colourings. I don't know why, it was most likely just ignorance, not knowing that there was anything wrong with what he was doing. To be fair, none of us thought there was anything wrong with it, we just didn't think about it.
> 
> Ella had the most horrible, greasy coat. She STANK. She moulted like it was going out of fashion. And at 8 years old she got a brain tumour. Do I blame my dad - no, he didn't know. Do I blame the food - hell yeah. Would I feed my dog this food - never in a million, kazillion years.


I didnt like your post for what happened  But for your point.

These companies sell these foods - They meet 'minimum' reqirements to be classed as a 'complete' food which gives the consumer confidence. :frown2:

Its so wrong on so many levels and of course you cant blame your dad. He has believed what has been advertised and told to him - like the majority of pet owners.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Frollie said:


> ; that I should just be happy Ollie was eating dog food.
> !


I wonder if this vet had seen too many people feeding their dogs roast dinners, chips and digestive biscuits and was just happy to hear of someone feeding actual dog food!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> OK. Bit harsh on yourself, but your prerogative.


I don't think so. If you feed your kid junk food and they get diabetes before they turn 10 years old, should you feel guilty? Yes..yes you should imo. And it happens a lot.

A woman in my office has 2 boxers and they're only a few years old, but pretty much every leg has had ACL tears. I asked out of interest how old they were when spayed (as I've seen links between early neuter/spay and ACL tears) and they were 10 weeks old when done. Knowing the research I'd seen, I'd feel guilty about that if it was me and I chose to have that operation done so early. I didn't mention this to her of course because that's insensitive, but the same process applies.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I did not suggest it is a GOOD idea to feed Bakers or any other such food. Just that people should not beat themselves over the head with a concrete post if they did/do. 

Neither did I suggest that it is a GOOD idea to feed one's children with junk food


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> I did not suggest it is a GOOD idea to feed Bakers or any other such food. *Just that people should not beat themselves over the head with a concrete post if they did/do.*


I guess the level of guilt felt for *knowingly *feeding such an awful food is proportional to the amount of love for and responsibility taken for said dog.

Or put another way, if you really love your dog, how could you NOT feel guilty for feeding him something that could make him very ill?


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

BessieDog said:


> Just my experience of a dog that doesn't like eating. She doesn't sit waiting for something better - she'll walk away from her bowl and take herself out of the room. Some dogs are 'fussy', and may play the pleading game, other dogs are almost anorexic and just don't enjoy eating.
> 
> Although Bess seems to have picked up now, it has crossed my mind to get a bag of Bakers just because so many dogs like the taste. I haven't had to resort to that, and hope I never will. Bess is fed raw which means I can play about with lots of different types to find something to interest her. But at times it's very hard.


I've seen your other threads about feeding Bess and I do feel for you. I know one of my biggest pleasures with Jack was watching his utter enjoyment over food. He'd eat anything, but towards the end when his digestion was going even further downhill we had to play about with a few different options and he absolutely adored all the home cooking and smelly tins of Chappie.

So what it would be like having a dog where you didn't get the satisfaction of seeing it eat? I'm sure the relief to see it actually eating something isn't quite the same...


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I did not suggest it is a GOOD idea to feed Bakers or any other such food. Just that people should not beat themselves over the head with a concrete post if they did/do.
> 
> Neither did I suggest that it is a GOOD idea to feed one's children with junk food


No, but you did say it wasn't easy to find better alternatives in the UK than Bakers?


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## joanna1984 (Jun 14, 2010)

Hello, I used to feed my dog Bakers Meaty Meals. I used to think he was fussy but it was me giving into him not eating something so trying something else. I must have tried at least 10 different dry foods and I ended up feeding Bakers. He was on it for about a year and i took him to the vets for his vaccinations and when they weighed him he was 1.4kg overweight and he didn't eat anywhere near the amount advised on the pack! Now this might not seem much but for a dog who should be 7.5kg at most its alot! I just happened to be in PAH looking for dog shampoo to ease itchy, flaky skin and i asked a member of staff to help and he asked what food i was feeding and i told him Bakers and he told me it was like having a McDonalds for every meal!!!!! That was it, I went home did the tiniest bit of research and switched him onto Wainwrights Small Breed Turkey & Rice the next day! I attempted to switch him gradually but after 2 days of him picking the new food out i switched him completley and the Bakers went in the bin!!!
Now i know Wainwrights isn't the best but its a damn sight better than Bakers and he lost weight and he no longer has itchy, flaky skin and his coat is lovely and soft and glossy now.
I picked our new Border Terrier pup up 2 weeks ago and shes currently on Burgess Supadog Puppy (which is being discontinued) and she'll be going onto Wainwrights soon too!
Sorry to ramble but thought I'd give you my experience with Bakers. I know, as someone has said, a dog could be fed Bakers for its entire life and be fine but knowing how crap Bakers is, why wouldn't you change? A dog won't starve itself but it will hold out if they think theres a chance of something better, you just have to be patient 
Good luck
Joanna x


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

PennyGSD said:


> No, but you did say it wasn't easy to find better alternatives in the UK than Bakers?


I'm pretty sure I did not! Please find my quote that says that?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

*PennyGSD*

I think this is what you are referring to:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goblin View Post 
So it's okay to take the easy option and never socialize your dog? It's okay to take the easy option and never take your dog for a walk?

Owning a dog is owning a life. It's not easy, its a responsibility. You'll not convince me otherwise.* It isn't difficult in the UK to find alternatives far better than bakers. *

My response: No and no.

Yes it is. No it is not, and yes it is. Not trying to.* No it isn't*.

You will see, therefore, that I DID NOT SAY IT WASN'T EASY TO FIND BETTER ALTERNATIVES TO BAKERS IN THE UK.

I actually agreed that IT ISN'T DIFFICULT TO FIND BETTER ALTERNATIVES ..........

Please make sure you quote me correctly.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I should change my original comment to read: anal, sanctimonious, judgemental and a little over-dramatic


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## MaximusJake (Oct 11, 2013)

McKenzie said:


> My dad had a gorgeous Golden Retriever, Ella. She was the softest dog ever, she was just a big ball of love.
> 
> My dad fed her the worst possible food here in NZ - a fabulous mix of cereals and animal by-products, and of course, colourings. I don't know why, it was most likely just ignorance, not knowing that there was anything wrong with what he was doing. To be fair, none of us thought there was anything wrong with it, we just didn't think about it.
> 
> Ella had the most horrible, greasy coat. She STANK. She moulted like it was going out of fashion. And at 8 years old she got a brain tumour. Do I blame my dad - no, he didn't know. Do I blame the food - hell yeah. Would I feed my dog this food - never in a million, kazillion years.


I had a mutt 'Mick' in my teens that I loved dearly. We fed him what the vet recommended and he developed cancer when he was only 9 years old. He was a smaller dog (some kind of terrier mix) so he should have lived much longer. When we took him to a new vet and he asked what we were feeding Mick, the vet said 'that's the worst food you could have fed him'. I was stunned. The new vet told me that the food I was feeding Mick actually had euthanized dogs and cats in it! Pets that were put down because of cancer and other sicknesses. I was feeding my dog cancerous tissues and I didn't even know it. That food was recommended from the previous vet!!! Apparently, dog nutrition is not required in most vet's schooling. I just assumed he knew what was best for my poor dog.

So, long story short. I got a black lab puppy a few months later and started to feed him homemade food. I found a bunch of great homemade dog food recipes at SecretsofDogFood.net | What You Didn't Know About Your Dog Food...

I've had friends that had dogs with issues like Ella. Their breath stank and their hair started to fall out. I told them they should try homemade food and those issues cleared right up. It's crazy that commercial dog food companies can get away with what they put in their food. There are good food companies out there but their food is expensive and can be hard to get. I prefer making batches of my own and freezing it. I know what's in it and have complete control over my dog's health.


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## MaximusJake (Oct 11, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> Probably not, but knowing what I know if I fed Bakers and my dog got cancer at 10years old I'd always blame myself because it could well be that food that caused it. For something as simple as food it's worth changing over to soothe those doubts.


I couldn't agree more. I did a lot of research after my dog died of cancer and was shocked at what many dog food companies are putting in their food. I've heard story after story of pets dying young to cancer. I usually blame the food. So, I started making my own pet food. It's affordable and worth my time to make sure that a part of my family is in good health.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Smart these vets aren't they when it comes to nutrition - NOT! 

Suppose at least he didn't try to sell you Hills, don't know which is worse tbh.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> *PennyGSD*
> 
> I think this is what you are referring to:
> 
> ...


Ooops. Hold my hand up to my error. I haven't checked back on this thread for a while but didn't want you to think I don't own up to my mistakes.

Sorry!:


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Not everyone likes using the internet, so I can see that as an argument, but even at Morrisons they stock Harringtons, which is a million times better than Bakers, so other supermarkets must equally have something *better* on their shelves.


Isnt harringtons just Wagg under a new brand name? We had to use some once when things were desperate bright orange poos and crazy behaviour.

Iams is supposed to be awful it is our emergency food if we can only get to the supermarket and have run out between orders. 
I see most of these like macdonalds food. I use some of the supermarket treats if I want a fall back in the cupboard that I know will keep but I see it again like smarties full of rubbish. 
I can understand sticking to one food because your dog has an upset stomach we stuck with Iams and wainwright with fresh meat when we were trying to work out what worked for my lot. I do sometimes wonder if the upset stomach is the change across too quickly though. 
If its convenience surely supplementing a rubbish food with a large percentage of meat is convenient. If its money thats the issue some of the better dog foods and RAW options available to order are cheaper than Bakers. 
As for the shiny coat and the amazing teeth, we have all seen or have friends who walk around looking like supermodels with lovely skin and hair who seem rather irritatingly to live on nothing but crisps and the odd chocolate bar. It doesn't mean nutrition needs to be thrown out the window.


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## Baggio (Oct 14, 2013)

I think that all commercial food should be BANNED. I'm not familiar with Bakers, but I recently learnt that the stuff that goes into making dog food in the factories are quite alarming. When I dug further, I was really shocked to find out that these ingredients were responsible for things like skin irritation, organ failure, cancer, and even behavioral problems like increased aggression. Could not believe that was the stuff I was feeding Lucky (our 8 yr old Golden Retriever) for years!!

So, we changed to a home made diet instead and now I feel much more at ease. I talk more about this on my website, so if you're interested, feel free to hop on over: Dog Food No More | Say NO to Commercial Dog Food!.

And just as an addendum, vets are generally not acquainted with dog food and their ingredients. I mean, even if they were, why is it that every vet I've ever been to with Lucky has huge rows and rows of dog food displayed on shelves? Clearly, something must be going amiss.

Anyway, hope this helps some :biggrin:

Baggio


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Baggio said:


> I think that all commercial food should be BANNED. I'm not familiar with Bakers, but I recently learnt that the stuff that goes into making dog food in the factories are quite alarming. When I dug further, I was really shocked to find out that these ingredients were responsible for things like skin irritation, organ failure, cancer, and even behavioral problems like increased aggression. Could not believe that was the stuff I was feeding Lucky (our 8 yr old Golden Retriever) for years!!
> 
> So, we changed to a home made diet instead and now I feel much more at ease. I talk more about this on my website, so if you're interested, feel free to hop on over: Dog Food No More | Say NO to Commercial Dog Food!.
> 
> ...


You never miss an opportunity to advertise your ignorance do you?

In the UK ALL commercially produced pet food has to be "fit for human consumption" thus presumably all the ingredients in dog food will also cause skin irritation, organ failure, cancer, and even behavioral problems like increased aggression whether it is in a can/packet or not?

And what about the effects on us.

Perhaps you could expand on your post and

a) list the specific ingredients that trigger these reactions
b) the peer reviewed scientific evidence to support your claims

We have now established that you know nothing about dog training and nothing about dog nutrition.

Thank you for alerting us to this fact.


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## Baggio (Oct 14, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> You never miss an opportunity to advertise your ignorance do you?
> 
> In the UK ALL commercially produced pet food has to be "fit for human consumption" thus presumably all the ingredients in dog food will also cause skin irritation, organ failure, cancer, and even behavioral problems like increased aggression whether it is in a can/packet or not?
> 
> ...


I apologize for sounding ignorant, I'm not in the UK and wasn't aware of that - thank you for alerting me to this fact.

However, I can expand on my post to include the literature I found that pointed out to these facts about commercial dog food - again, maybe this difference is geographical, but in the States, I'm not seeing commercial dog food being advertised as "being fit for human consumption".

Here's a list of these books / supporting evidence:
Food Pets Die For: Shocking Facts About Pet Food, Ann N. Martin

Protect Your Pet: More Shocking Facts, Ann N. Martin

Pet Allergies, Dr. Alfred Plechner, Martin Zucker

CTF.org • View topic - More problems with Dog and Cat Food (euthanized animal remains in pet food)

greenlivingqa (Debra Lynn Dadd's blog)

Mad Cowboy, Howard F Lyman

Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser

Healing Pets With Nature's Miracle Cures, Henry Pasternak DVM CVA.

Again, I sincerely apologize if I sounded a bit heretic, I'm not familiar with dog food in the UK, but based on what I've learnt from the above literature (and yes, I'm no profession, just another dog owner), I'm inclined to staying away from commercial dog food.

Thanks for pointing this out and hope the above list helps.

Baggio


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