# 6mth old golden ret still biting!!



## Matt1234 (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi our 6 month old female retriever has her adult teeth through now but is still biting and it hurts!!

If we are washing up or even playing with her she can just turn and it doesn't seem like play biting. She growls and shows her teeth. We were told when she was a puppy that it was normal but it has just continued to a point where it could be dangerous.

The only time she was better was when she was on chicken and rice due to a continual stomach problem. She has now gone back on dog food wainwrights (was on beta puppy) the stomach seems to be better but she has tuned mental again!

Has anyone else come across this problem which to me appears to be a chemical imbalance of some sort but we are not sure what and it is getting us down as we do everything for her then she goes and bites and growls at us! Thanks for your help!


----------



## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

How much mental and physical exercise is she getting? 
How are you teaching her that mouthing is not ok? 

Sorry to answer your question with another question but her behaviour is most likely down to poor bite inhibition and possibly boredom. Goldies are a high energy breed that need to be challenged both physically and mentally every day so that they can be calm loving pets in the house.


----------



## Matt1234 (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi, thanks for reply. as she is still only 6 months, half an hour - 45 mins walking (mostly off the lead) we play games as much as we can but she is by herself for two 3.5 periods in the day with only the radio. We play fetch in the garden but she starts biting after 2 or 3 times, she has lots of toys but isn't really bothered by many of them. We do however go through so much cardboard making parcels for her to find treats in but it doesn't seem to be enough if this is the problem.

I am still thinking that it must be something in the normal pet foods you get that makes her a little crazy and would be interested to know if anyone has had similar experiences with differnet foods.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

That's not enough exercise for a 6 month old goldie.. She should be having 30 mins on the lead maximum, but as much as she can take of offlead exercise on grass and sand. She needs to build up muscle too remember. Dino is 9 months and gets 3 hours a day off lead on soft grass.

Do training sessions a few times a day with her and make sure you take her out to release her energy before and after being left.

I do have experience of the food thing, I feed Dino on raw but had run out of food and gave him James Wellbeloved one day. He went mental and destroyed everything in my flat 

I don't feed him kibble ever now!


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Not sure if it is over stimulation if games are too exciting?

Kilo was horrendous in terms of impulse control until about 9 months of age and used to jump and mouth when over excited. I learnt to read the signs that it was about to start carefully and stop a game or whatever and do some training to calm and distract him. If it happened out on a walk (big problems on windy days as the leaves swirling used to get him really excited!) I used to stop, not say a word and stand on his lead. Once he was a tiny bit calmer I would get his attention and again do a few obedience exercises - sits / downs etc then continue the walk. If he directed his mouthing at the lead I secured it round a lamp post and stepped out of reach - only took about two or three repetitions and he understood that it was a useless exercise.

I would also give your dog more offlead exercise if possible - may be one of the problems.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't think so, Goldies are highly intelligent and people loving dogs. I would imagine that your dog is frustrated.
Have a look at gun dog training exercises, a bit more interaction and training at the same time may help.
Just retrieving toys is not enough for an intelligent breed like this.


----------



## Matt1234 (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks for the replys!! I think you are probably right, we could do more specific training but as for having the dog off the lead for 3 hoursa day, it seems a bit much for what is essentially a puppy. It was drummed into us by vets and trainers that for the first year of their life they should be excercised for only 5 minutes per month of age as there bones are still forming and any longer will create awful problems later in life as the breed are prone to hip problems.

I'm thinking of trying a natural diet for 3 or 4 weeks and see how that works (whilst giving her some more training activity). Has anyone come across Honeysrealdogfood.com ? they seem to know their stuff.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Matt1234 said:


> Thanks for the replys!! I think you are probably right, we could do more specific training but as for having the dog off the lead for 3 hoursa day, it seems a bit much for what is essentially a puppy. It was drummed into us by vets and trainers that for the first year of their life they should be excercised for only 5 minutes per month of age as there bones are still forming and any longer will create awful problems later in life as the breed are prone to hip problems.
> 
> I'm thinking of trying a natural diet for 3 or 4 weeks and see how that works (whilst giving her some more training activity). Has anyone come across Honeysrealdogfood.com ? they seem to know their stuff.


I used it when it was 'Darlings' briefly when I wanted to feed raw but had to take Kilo's food to work quite often, use the fridge etc. I was very impressed but it is expensive. I started to feed raw 'properly' once I had left work.

My understanding of the 5 min / month rule is that it is for enforced lead walking on pavements...which I did stick to. Offlead on soft surfaces I pretty much let Kilo do what he wanted as there is no pace to enforce, no great distance to cover and a pup can rest whenever needed and just potter about sniffing and investigating everything.


----------



## Mollyspringer (Aug 16, 2011)

Hi, I've got a 10month old Springer and had the same problems as you. She's calmed down nearly completely now. When we first got her, at 5 months old, she was being fed Pedigree Chum puppy food and that was making her extra loopy. After a lot of trial and error we now feed Molly on Nature Diet and James Wellbeloved dry biscuits. We were also only taking her out once a day-off lead for about half an hour. We soon realised that that was nowhere near enough exercise for her. She now goes out twice a day, both off lead all the time, for up to an hour each time.
I had read things about not exercising them too much, but each dog is different but I can't really advise you on that. I'm sure someone on here will.
Hang in there, it does get better, but in Molly's case I'm sure it was the extra exercise that helped a lot. Good luck x


----------



## Matt1234 (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks dogless and mollyspringer. Our goldie is called Molly!! I think this is probably a good idea. It has been quite frustrating as in the morning we let her out and we just sit with her playing games, kongs etc thinking we shouldn't be walking her anymore. I wonder if we take her walking in the morning as well as the evening for half hour to an hour each and see if it makes any difference.

As far as bite inhibition goes, everything we have tried, no's, off's, oww's, screaming etc all result in more biting. we do no tend to leave the room or put her out in the kitchen but it involves draggin her to the door whcih probably seems like a fun game to her. We try completely ignoring her when she is doing it but more often than not she carry's on until we have to move cause it hurts! All advice is greatly appreciated thanks!


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Matt1234 said:


> Thanks dogless and mollyspringer. Our goldie is called Molly!! I think this is probably a good idea. It has been quite frustrating as in the morning we let her out and we just sit with her playing games, kongs etc thinking we shouldn't be walking her anymore. I wonder if we take her walking in the morning as well as the evening for half hour to an hour each and see if it makes any difference.
> 
> As far as bite inhibition goes, everything we have tried, no's, off's, oww's, screaming etc all result in more biting. we do no tend to leave the room or put her out in the kitchen but it involves draggin her to the door whcih probably seems like a fun game to her. We try completely ignoring her when she is doing it but more often than not she carry's on until we have to move cause it hurts! All advice is greatly appreciated thanks!


Can you leave a light lead on her in the house so you can lead her away?


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

The 5 min per month of age rule is for forced walking, where the pup has to follow you at your pace. The dog should be allowed as much free running as it wants on soft surfaces to build muscle. This is where vets and trainers get it wrong. If the dog doesn't have enough muscle to support the dog you'll end up with bad hips too.

Keep a house line on Molly, that way when she bites you can give a firm "no" and lead her out on the lead, no grabbing or playing games. Or if you can put a baby gate up on the kitchen or whatever room leads off, put her behind the gate when she bites and have everyone turn their back and ignore her for a minute or a few minutes. You have to be consistent in whatever approach you take though, if you change techniques she won't "get it".


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

For our Chessie, we had an extra special toy that is kept in full view but is out of reach. If he played up we would just say the name of the toy (quack ) and once he was calm he was rewarded with a short hold/play with the special toy.
Still works now if needed  quack overrides nearly everything else


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

At 6mths she will be at an age where she will push boundaries and see what she can get away with, You may even start to find that if she came before off lead she now wont.

If she was much calmer and relaxed when on chicken and rice, I personally would be looking at her food, like kids certain things, like wheat and maize, artificial colourings and preservatives can make dogs hyper. Have you still got her on Puppy Formula too? If so that might be the problem if its high protein and calorie it may now be too much now the growth rate has slowed.
It happened with mine, when I changed to Junior then adult they were much better. Natural Dog food company food is good for dogs who are hyper and also if they have sensitive digestion or allergies. They do a Chicken and rice with human grade chicken thats used. http://naturaldogfoodcompany.com/

Some times they bite and growl and just go over the top and lose control with over excitement and over stimulation. From what I understand she is only getting an evening walk? I would deffinately try walking her morning as well. If she is alone for 2 x 3half hour periods and not walked until the evening then all that excess energy has got to go somewhere. Thats why she is likely chanelling it all at you when you are there in the evenings or lunch time, she is beside herself with over excitement. In fact if you can do 
a Walk in the morning, another quick one at lunch (Im assuming you come home for her at lunch) then one in the evening, I think it will likely make a differerence as she is dumping the energy inbetween, making her more likely to settle in between walks.

I would encourage her to use her mouth and take out anything on other things like Kongs, You can get various types as well as the Kong Classic,
There is a Dental, The Wobbler, and the Genius See Link and especially section How to Kong for ideas on fillings
Dog & Cat Toys & Dog Treats - Pet Toys, Dog Chew Toys | KONG Company
Buster Dog Maze is good you can feed her food in it too keeping her busy
Buster DogMaze - YouTube
Buster Cubes are good too, you fill them with kibble and set them to distribute a piece here and there as they play
The New Buster Cube - YouTube
Stag Bars are good too Long lasting and most dogs love them, chewing is a de-stresser for dogs
Our products | Pure Dog | Stagbar antler dog chews | natural dog treats | organic dog snacks | hypoallergenic dog chews | long-lasting dog chews | teeth cleaning dog chews | low fat dog treats
The above are all things that should get and keep her interest, give her some mental stimulation but at the same time focus her and wind her down and divert any exciteable high energy.
With the extra regular walking and things like this inbetween it should make a difference.


----------



## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Hi, I've got one of those over-excited puppies, too. 
I'll try to tell you what I do with my 7-month old puppy Terence:

He goes out in the morning for 15 minutes or so on the pavement.
He's not a morning kinda dog so he will go to sleep for a while til about 11.
We then go out for our big walk. This could be of any length really from an hour upwards. Today we went for 3 hours.  The point is though, it is all "off-lead" (he's on a longline in the park) and he gets to potter and play and do his thing. If he is tired, we go home. If he wants to go some more, we'll spend more time in the park. While in the park, I always throw sticks, do bits of obedience, run away from him, hide etc, all things to keep him really mentally busy the whole time.
When we get home, he falls asleep.
When I pick up my kids from daycare, he has another 15-2o minute pavement walk.
Kids go to bed at 7pm and that is usually when Terence potentially becomes "bitey". We usually have a good play session with his ball and rope. He also likes it when I throw his Kong. If he gets too hyped up, I make him do sit, down, leave its etc. That usually helps to calm him. If it doesn't help, I put Terence into time-out for about 5 minutes and leave the room completely. 

Your Goldie sounds like Terence, in that she tries to get your attention. She wants to play with you because she is frustrated and bored. 7 hours in total is a LONG time to leave any dog alone, let alone a puppy. Could you maybe get a dog walker in? Some dog walkers can come in and just sit with your dog? You have to see it from her point of view. You leave her alone for ages, and then you come back and won't play with her! How mean is that, in her mind. 
Sorry for the long ramble. 

ETA: You might want to look at changing her diet to an additive-free diet. You say she was calmer on chicken and rice, so it is possible, she goes loopy on something because there's something in her food.


----------



## retepwaker (Dec 5, 2011)

My be sum thing is iterating him you may be able to find a solution with a more compressive observation


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Matt1234 said:


> Thanks for the replys!! I think you are probably right, we could do more specific training but as for having the dog off the lead for 3 hoursa day, it seems a bit much for what is essentially a puppy. It was drummed into us by vets and trainers that for the first year of their life they should be excercised for only 5 minutes per month of age as there bones are still forming and any longer will create awful problems later in life as the breed are prone to hip problems.
> 
> I'm thinking of trying a natural diet for 3 or 4 weeks and see how that works (whilst giving her some more training activity). Has anyone come across Honeysrealdogfood.com ? they seem to know their stuff.


Your vets right.. so say possibly three walks a day..

Ok this is what it means You should do no more than 5 mins per month forced walking.. so 6 months = 30 mins.. per walk (On lead is forced walking) ..But you can go sit on the park and let her cavort or chill..For as long as you like.. Cause you are not forcing her.

If you can sort the right diet you will prob find her behaviour will drastically change over a period of a couple of weeks.. ..


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

rona said:


> For our Chessie, we had an extra special toy that is kept in full view but is out of reach. If he played up we would just say the name of the toy (quack ) and once he was calm he was rewarded with a short hold/play with the special toy.
> Still works now if needed  quack overrides nearly everything else


Our 'distraction' is saying "Where's your Holee Molee?" and he'll go off to find it if he has been looking for trouble......


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Matt1234 said:


> Thanks dogless and mollyspringer. Our goldie is called Molly!! I think this is probably a good idea. It has been quite frustrating as in the morning we let her out and we just sit with her playing games, kongs etc thinking we shouldn't be walking her anymore. I wonder if we take her walking in the morning as well as the evening for half hour to an hour each and see if it makes any difference.
> 
> As far as bite inhibition goes, everything we have tried, no's, off's, oww's, screaming etc all result in more biting. we do no tend to leave the room or put her out in the kitchen but it involves draggin her to the door whcih probably seems like a fun game to her. We try completely ignoring her when she is doing it but more often than not she carry's on until we have to move cause it hurts! All advice is greatly appreciated thanks!


Regarding the stopping her biting, Owws or high pitched yelps only tend to work if the dog has previously been taught bite inhibition in the litter with mum and littermates, if they havent then Ouch, yelps etc can make them even more exciteable. Screaming again will only add to the Mayhem and likely make her worse. As said before, once they get to a high state of over excitement some totally lose the plot and need to calm down. Dragging her to the door is bad, that may even be exacerbating the growling and nipping.

You need to if you dont already add 2 or 3 training sessions a day to her daily routine only needs to be 10/15 minutes. Teach and make her go through all the basics. Also start making her sit and work for anything she gets in general, while she is sitting and focusing in preparation for something be it the treat, attention a toy whatever, she wont be jumping up and nipping to get what she wants.

I would use time out, but dont drag her out, teach her to come for a treat, call her as part of the training, another way to move her effectively is just to chuck treats and make her follow them and throw them into the kitchen/wherever her time out is to be and shut the door. Or have a treat let her know you have it and use it as a lure to make her follow you out, once out she then sits and is given the treat. Move her around in these ways instead of dragging her. You need to watch timing too, time out before it gets wild and she is really into the biting and growling, first sign of getting hyped up, straight out. Leave her, then let her out, but no attention ignore her until your sure she is staying calm and not going to start it again, then call her, get her to sit then give attention. She starts the behaviour out again and repeat and keep repeating it.

Any attention you give while she is mouthing is rewarding it. You need to give attention for calm non bitey behaviour only. Above all you need to be consistent all the time.


----------



## Mollyspringer (Aug 16, 2011)

I know what you mean about the exercise thing-we take Molly in the car to a huge private estate (we do have permission and pay for the privilege!) where she can sniff, run and swim and paddle to her heart's content. As it's all grassy we didn't think the limited exercise thing applied and it certainly helped her behaviour. She's really lovely now but I know how you can despair over it. I also found advice on this forum invaluable.
Two other things I wouldn't be without-one of those tall doggy stairgates into the kitchen. Molly is the world champion work top surfer-probably because she's a Springer! She IS told to get down but suddenly seems to suffer from deafness where food is concerned. And we have a couple of very long screws in a couple of wooden door frames. We've got a couple of double-ended leads attached to them and if we want a bit of 'time out' or if the grandchildren are eating, we just attach Molly and she just lies calmly.
I do know how you feel-I couldn't really imagine that I'd have such a lovely, loyal dog a few months ago but it does get easier, and I'm sure your Molly will be the same x


----------



## TabithaJ (Apr 18, 2010)

Young gundogs are often a bit 'mouthy' 

How are you responding to her when she does bite and nip? My Lab was VERY mouthy when I adopted him, it was constant. I found that consistency was key: every single time your dog puts his teeth in anyone's skin, you should say a firm 'no' OR yelp AND turn your back, or walk away for a few minutes.

You all have to be on the same page with this; it's no good one of you doing it if the rest of the family don't.

Also: I agree with you about being careful how much exercise your puppy gets. Goldens, like Labs, are very prone to hip dysplasia, so follow your vet's advice on this. However - there is no limit to how much MENTAL stimulation your pup can have!

Look online and you'll find lots of fun training games and exercises. Not only will it tire your pup out, and thus keep her calmer, but you'll also find it will increase the bond between you 

Best of luck and remember, six months is still very young 


RE FOOD:

Might definitely be an idea to try something else, especially if you noticed a difference when she was on something else. My Lab had constant itchy ears until I put him on a wet food (Wainwrights trays).


----------



## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

> ...she has lots of toys but isn't really bothered by many of them.


Too much choice maybe? Rotate them by putting most away in a box then swap out for a fresh toy when one loses it play appeal.

Has mixed with other dogs at a young age to learn that biting is wrong?


----------



## Matt1234 (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks again for all the comments. She has been socialised as much as possible. Puppy class once a week, meeting lots of different dogs in the parks and has a couple of play mates that she has a good roll around with. Both older and I think teach her a bit of respect.

She can be the perfect dog sometimes she sits well, lays down, waits for her treats and her dinner (even if we leave the room breifly) until we give the go ahead. Her recall is ok but runners and cyclists are quite appealing to her. I don't think we have found the right 'high reward' treat for her yet to get a response sometimes. have tried chicken, liver, sausage, ham, cheese etc but nothing that she is massively over excited about.

The posts are full of good ideas that we will try, some things we were doing, some not but it is good to hear that we are going in the right direction (kind of). The main thing it seems is consistency. We will try the 2/3 walks a day and an indoor lead (we have numerous stair gates around the house for containment) for those times when she is really out of control. Also I think trying her on a natural dog food without the additives is a must. Matt


----------



## Matt1234 (Feb 2, 2012)

Duplicate post


----------

