# Kill it, Cook it, Eat it [Rabbits]



## Guest (Jan 7, 2009)

I've just watched the third one in the new series...

They got Ferrets to chase the wild Rabbits out of their burrows - into a net - and then the people snapped their necks, apparently killing it instantly. I supose if it _has_ to be done, this seems a humane way... with apposed to it getting shot and suffering...

I've never eaten [and don't think I can] a Rabbit... I owned one, and I'd always think of her if I did. 

I'm conflicted, I used to be Vegeterian a few years ago but stopped due to health reasons - but now I'm seriously thinking of giving it another go, but making sure I eat properly this time.

I don't know. 

Someone on the show tonight said that animals have to be killed because they're over populated... 
Human beings are walking around the earth _all over the place_. We're deffinately over populated - but we don't go around killing people saying "nope, you can't live - there's too many of you!" :001_rolleyes:


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I watched it, and I saw the duck one yesterday, think it's grouse tonight.

I have had pet rabbits and I have eaten rabbit. I don't associate them together.

I found it interesting that the girl who worked in animal welfare had less of a problem than the girl with far to make up on and appeared to live in a little bubble of her own with no real contact with animals. And the animal rights campaigner couldn't come up with an alternative solution to the population issues, but said what they were doing is wrong.

I thought this episode was easier to deal with than the duck one. The rabbits were killed quickly, and had a better life than any farmed rabbits.

The problem is rabbits aren't natural to the UK and there population is huge so land owners need to control them as they eat crops and grass meant for sheep and humans etc.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

RoseForTheDead said:


> I've just watched the third one in the new series...
> 
> They got Ferrets to chase the wild Rabbits out of their burrows - into a net - and then the people snapped their necks, apparently killing it instantly. I supose if it _has_ to be done, this seems a humane way... with apposed to it getting shot and suffering...
> 
> ...


i go rabbiting with ferrets and nets.rabbits destroy crops and do a lot of other damage if left alone there would be thousands of them they would eat all the grass there would be nothing for horses and cattle.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

RoseForTheDead said:


> Someone on the show tonight said that animals have to be killed because they're over populated...
> Human beings are walking around the earth _all over the place_. We're deffinately over populated - but we don't go around killing people saying "nope, you can't live - there's too many of you!" :001_rolleyes:


Erm....... debatable if you look at the history books or even today's news.

I have a love of all animals and have always had pets thropughout my life but i have no problem with killing an animal for food and have carried out many instances of this myself with full respect for the animal, the life it has led and how it was killed. Nothing goes to waste as I use the fur and feathers for other things

I have always enjoyed growing my own food and taking an interest in where my foo dis sourced from. I am on first name terms with my butcher, green grocer and a few of the guys at the fly fisheries where I source the majority of my fish from.

Hunting is a part of life and those people that eat meat that comes prepackaged from the supermarket and then start kicking off and getting all sentimental when they see programmes like this are so far detached from the process of butchery it makes me angry.

If you are unwilling to take part in the butchering and preperation of your meat for the table then I suggest you rethink your eating habits.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

hutch6 said:


> Erm....... debatable if you look at the history books or even today's news.
> 
> I have a love of all animals and have always had pets thropughout my life but i have no problem with killing an animal for food and have carried out many instances of this myself with full respect for the animal, the life it has led and how it was killed. Nothing goes to waste as I use the fur and feathers for other things
> 
> ...


well said agree i grow my own food and go hunting andsupply butcher with rabbits.get fish from local fishermen


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

What fantastic life styles you both lead.
I do agree Hutch that today we are far to detatched from the source of our food. And I believe this has led to all sorts of problems in the industry.
If we all took a greater interest where our food was coming from it would change the industry.
I do go to my local shops sometimes - but I do also use the supermarket.
I have always been very clear that meat in the shops comes from an animal - I remember being in the supermarket and my daughter asking what chicken was. I explained it was a bird and had been killed for us to eat and my Mum-in-law was horrified. (My daughter 3 at the time was fine).
But I thought by pretending it's not meat makes no sense - if you don't know what you are eating how can you care?


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I have been a vegetarian for 20 years, and eat exactly the same as meat eaters.

Linda McCartney has some fantastic soya products which we use for making bolognaise, chilli etc etc. and quorn will take on whatever flavour it is cooked with. My cholesterol is very low, as is my blood pressure, and I feel extremely healthy in myself.

I have stated this many times on the forum, that I have absolutely no problem with people who hunt to eat. However, there is physically no difference whatsoever from a wild rabbit to a domesticated rabbit and I have taken many baby wild rabbits over to St Tiggywinkles who have been injured on the roads.

That said however, for people who eat meat, an animal is an animal regardless of the form in which it takes. People in China eat dogs and cats, yet people in this country feel that this is abhorant!! How on earth you can differentiate is beyond me


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Nina said:


> I have been a vegetarian for 20 years, and eat exactly the same as meat eaters.
> 
> Linda McCartney has some fantastic soya products which we use for making bolognaise, chilli etc etc. and quorn will take on whatever flavour it is cooked with. My cholesterol is very low, as is my blood pressure, and I feel extremely healthy in myself.
> 
> ...


how can you eat the same as meat eaters ifyou are a vegy


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

I have eaten meat all of my life and I too have low cholesterol and low blood pressure so it has had no effect on me in respect to the argument that some people take of "vegetarianism is a healthier way of life".

One thing I struggle with when it comes to vegetarian food is why do they make the food represent the meat alternative? Vegetarian burgers, sausages, bacon etc? Why eat something that represents what you are against in the first place?

The best bit about the programme last night was that blonde, well, idiot if I am honest. She had no idea what was going on when it came to understanding the content of the show, could provide no backup for arguments and wore the thickest, darkest blinkers when it came to the reason behind people's actions involved int he indusrty. The animal rights activist wasn't much better either.

Different animals are eaten world wide due to the culture of that country. India don't eat cows for example so for China to eat dogs, France to eat horses and the Japanese to eat pretty much any living species does not cause conflict with my morals as i understand that anything that was alive is game for the plate if the individual desires.

I have had cats, rabbits, chickens, ducks, birds, fish, reptiles, various other rodents and a dog as a pet which I have loved dearly but I don't assocaite them with what is put on plates as I understand why it has been prepared as food.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

I don't have a problem with how the Rabbits are killed, as I said in my previous post - it looked humane, and quick. Where as the last programme on Ducks... they got shot - and left them over night, when one of them had been injured - so that poor little thing deffinately suffered... 

I understand totally that they do damage to crop, and it's a big cycle, if they damage grass - it effects the animals that eat the grass and then it would in turn effect us. I never debated that at all. 

I don't have a problem with people who kill and eat animals (aslong as that's what it is - and it's NOT for sport...) - yes it upsets me to see them being killed - who wouldn't be upset?! But I think if the animal has had a happy, natural, WILD normal life.... then that's better than it being caged, fattened up made to live in horrible conditions and then killed in a slaughterhouse. 

People have their own opinions - wouldn't it be a boring world if we all thought the same...?


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

That show is brilliant, very insightful. Having no qualms about eating anything that walks and talks i think it's good to have a show that broadens peoples knowledge about what, where and how meat etc can be caught and dealt with.

However, you might want to note that there is such condition called RABBIT STARVATION where humans who eat a diet of lean meats such as rabbits, hence the name, can starve to death aswell as be malnourished.

I'm afraid being me I find this highly amusing.

for more info:

Rabbit starvation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

Its just horrific that they are even making a flaming TV programme about killing animals!!

The only humane way to kill an animal is to shoot it in the head - there's no pain then.

Going out with ferrets / dogs or whatever else is classed as a 'sport' is just 100% wrong, cruel and should be banned. There's absolutely no need for it and i cannot abide people who do this. Sorry, but this is my personal opinion, which i do believe i'm allowed :001_smile:

I dont see the fun in ripping an animal to pieces just because it chooses to sit / eat and play in 'your' field. :


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

RoseForTheDead said:


> I've just watched the third one in the new series...
> 
> They got Ferrets to chase the wild Rabbits out of their burrows - into a net - and then the people snapped their necks, apparently killing it instantly. I supose if it _has_ to be done, this seems a humane way... with apposed to it getting shot and suffering...
> 
> ...


I agree RFTD - wouldn't it be fun to go around eliminating waste's of space and other dredges living in our community because 'were over populated'. Unfortunetly we'd be sent to prison cause its 'wrong', yet killing innocent animals is allowed? Bizarre!


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## francesca colclough (Jan 8, 2009)

and quote fleur "the girl with far to make up on and appeared to live in a little bubble of her own with no real contact with animals". ....im the girl that was on the show last night...i have 5 dogs u bint, ive been a veggie for 21 year aka all of my life. Eye make up u say....thats just how i role, i wear make up, i wear designer clothes, i have money...but i love animals more then any make up brand, designer clothes so on that note...go catch aids...u stupid bitch...and i ******* love living in a bubble...the worlds a cruel place so if i feel safe in "a bubble" then that where i shall stay. U ovo live in a council house n thrive off people like me...as lets face it..people like u take my taxes.x.

and now for you...hutch..

"The best bit about the programme last night was that blonde, well, idiot if I am honest. She had no idea what was going on when it came to understanding the content of the show, could provide no backup for arguments and wore the thickest, darkest blinkers when it came to the reason behind people's actions involved int he indusrty. The animal rights activist wasn't much better either"

right u twatter....firstly..ur right i was the best part of the show...however im no longer blonde...so thats francesca sophie colclough to u...not "the blonde". Idiot? u say....well thats funny cause here u judge off what the bbc edited me out to be....dick wadd...i hate u...my opinions matter not yours!

thanks.x.:crazy


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Aud's_Mum said:


> I agree RFTD - wouldn't it be fun to go around eliminating waste's of space and other dredges living in our community because 'were over populated'. Unfortunetly we'd be sent to prison cause its 'wrong', yet killing innocent animals is allowed? Bizarre!


mother nature takes care of the people


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Aud's_Mum said:


> Its just horrific that they are even making a flaming TV programme about killing animals!!
> 
> The only humane way to kill an animal is to shoot it in the head - there's no pain then.
> 
> ...


how we gonna keep vermin down if we dont hunt them my dogs killed 40 rats.40 less to damage buildings and spread disease


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

francesca colclough said:


> and quote fleur "the girl with far to make up on and appeared to live in a little bubble of her own with no real contact with animals". ....im the girl that was on the show last night...i have 5 dogs u bint, ive been a veggie for 21 year aka all of my life. Eye make up u say....thats just how i role, i wear make up, i wear designer clothes, i have money...but i love animals more then any make up brand, designer clothes so on that note...go catch aids...u stupid bitch...and i ******* love living in a bubble...the worlds a cruel place so if i feel safe in "a bubble" then that where i shall stay. U ovo live in a council house n thrive off people like me...as lets face it..people like u take my taxes.x.
> 
> and now for you...hutch..
> 
> ...


think you should go back in your little bubble


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

borderer said:


> think you should go back in your little bubble


LMAO


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

I didnt even know it was on!!! I watched the last few series and found them really interesting. When is it on again? do you know if it will be repeated?


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

vizzy24 said:


> I didnt even know it was on!!! I watched the last few series and found them really interesting. When is it on again? do you know if it will be repeated?


It's on every night this week at 10.30pm... I think it's Grouse tonight? Not sure!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

vizzy24 said:


> I didnt even know it was on!!! I watched the last few series and found them really interesting. When is it on again? do you know if it will be repeated?


It's been on all week on BBC3.
It's on 2nite at 10.30 and it's about Grouse tonight
This series has been about "wild" animals.


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

borderer said:


> how we gonna keep vermin down if we dont hunt them my dogs killed 40 rats.40 less to damage buildings and spread disease


Hi borderer,

I'm always terrified these kind of discussions turn into nasty threads so i'll just say now that i'm not having a go at you or anything, and each to their own.

Rats and other vermin are always going to be about, no amount of ripping them to bits is going to cure that. As i said previously, the only humane way of killing something is to shoot it - not tear it to pieces. Vermin can be kept to a low number by shooting.

Rats tend to only hang about buildings if there's food and other crap to eat, dirty places etc... they dont just wonder in and out of houses cause they fancy sitting by the fire!


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

francesca colclough said:


> and quote fleur "the girl with far to make up on and appeared to live in a little bubble of her own with no real contact with animals". ....im the girl that was on the show last night...i have 5 dogs u bint, ive been a veggie for 21 year aka all of my life. Eye make up u say....thats just how i role, i wear make up, i wear designer clothes, i have money...but i love animals more then any make up brand, designer clothes so on that note...go catch aids...u stupid bitch...and i ******* love living in a bubble...the worlds a cruel place so if i feel safe in "a bubble" then that where i shall stay. U ovo live in a council house n thrive off people like me...as lets face it..people like u take my taxes.x.
> 
> and now for you...hutch..
> 
> ...


Hi Francesca Sophie Colclough,

Welcome to the forum. I am sure you will find it a nice friendly place where people can express their opinions on subjects, ask or provide advice and generally meet new people in cyber based reality.

So what was you opinion of the programme after watching it back and seeing it again?

What is you thoughts on the following theory:

The introduction of rabbits to Australia that were originally brought over to be bred for food but which escaped, are responsible for the devastation of plant life which has lead to monumental topsoil erosion expected to take millions of years to regenerate, the loss of 12% of all mammalian species indigenous to the continent. In one year over 10million rabbits were reported to have been killed but this had no effect on the population which was a few years later estimated to be between 100-200millon.

*Aud's Mum* - _I dont see the fun in ripping an animal to pieces just because it chooses to sit / eat and play in 'your' field. _

How about if the field contains produce that is the sole income your family relies upon and the rabbits are destroying your livelihood?
What if the people involved in the cull are hired hands that are knowledgeable about their quarry, do it with the minimal amount of fuss and ensure that the death of the animal is as quick as possible to ensure minimal suffering?
What happens if the rabbit population goes unchecked an due to the lack of natural predation our indigenous species rapidly decline due to the lack available food?
How do you think other animals survive on the planet?

Nature, that thing that every living organism is part of, including us, is all about life and death - nothing more.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Aud's_Mum said:


> Hi borderer,
> 
> I'm always terrified these kind of discussions turn into nasty threads so i'll just say now that i'm not having a go at you or anything, and each to their own.
> 
> ...


rats keep themselves very clean they will go anywere for food even nice clean places shooting is no good you can sit for hours waiting.they know you are there.yes they will allways be about but numbers must be kept down.dogs are best for killing them or poison that takes time to kill them


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

borderer said:


> rats keep themselves very clean they will go anywere for food even nice clean places shooting is no good you can sit for hours waiting.they know you are there.yes they will allways be about but numbers must be kept down.dogs are best for killing them or poison that takes time to kill them


I dont think there's a 'nice' way of killing anything, but I'd rather it be done by a dog... than poison, as like you said, it takes time to kill them, so it'd be suffering more


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Aud's_Mum said:


> Hi borderer,
> 
> I'm always terrified these kind of discussions turn into nasty threads so i'll just say now that i'm not having a go at you or anything, and each to their own.
> 
> ...


In a way you are wrong. Having lived and worked in the countryside all my life, I can assure you that rats will populate somewhere warm and cosy during the winter months. Admittedly there usually has to be a food source but in this day and age I'm afraid they can find food anywhere


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Thanks for that wil be sure to watch it


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

hutch6 said:


> Hi Francesca Sophie Colclough,
> 
> Welcome to the forum. I am sure you will find it a nice friendly place where people can express their opinions on subjects, ask or provide advice and generally meet new people in cyber based reality.
> 
> ...


Hello hutch, again, i'm not getting into any argument, nasty discussion or whatever else, but as i stated before - it was MY opinion, and nothing more.

Rabbits, rats etc did not choose to be here, mankind creates more thus adding to the problem, and i dont agree with an innocent animal having to suffer because of this.

As i also said, if the animal is killed humanely and quick then ok, what i dont see the point of is killing an animal for 'sport', ripping it to pieces, putting it through so much pain before its killed - whats the point?


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

You can catch the other two episodes (deer and duck) if you search for it on the BBC website.

The ones they did a while back on dmoesticated livestock were pretty good but a bit glammed up for the TV.


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

rona said:


> In a way you are wrong. Having lived and worked in the countryside all my life, I can assure you that rats will populate somewhere warm and cosy during the winter months. Admittedly there usually has to be a food source but in this day and age I'm afraid they can find food anywhere


Then i hold my hands up - fair enough.

I'm very passtionate about animals, and i appreciate and understand animals have to be killed for various reasons - hey, i'm not a veggie, i eat meat (organic but still), so i'm not preaching about that. What i dont agree with is torturing an animal, making it suffer before it dies, choosing to kill for a sport....that kind of stuff.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Perhaps those that think killing for food have never been hungry..the society we live in today,hardly anyone goes HUNGRY..but i do fear hard times are coming and more people should learn to go back to basics, and fend for themselves instead of just relying on the local supermarket..just my oppion.*


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *the society we live in today,hardly anyone goes HUNGRY..D*


I agree. It's not like in the old days where you only survived if you killed your own food...


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## Tytheslug (Jan 8, 2009)

what annoys me is the self righteous attitude of the vegetarians and vegans on the show. they spit venom at the meat eaters and try to make them feel guilty for eating meat. yet the meat eaters never do the same to the vegetarians/vegans.

and as for that blonde...she lacked the mental capactity to comprehend the most basic concepts of hunting and the show in general. i doubt she even fully understands the reasons she is herself a vegetarian.

as for the distinction between pets and animals for food, there is no contradiction here, people have differentiated the two for thousands of years, they serve different purposes, pets are for companionship, hunting, herding, protection etc... whereas the animals to eat are for sustinance. both types exist to serve human needs...there is nothing wrong with that, we are the dominant species on the planet... (no lectures please about what we are doing to the planet thats a different argument).

...one other thing also bugs me, from an evolutionary perspective, our ancestors would still be swinging through trees and hiding from predators if they hadn't switched to a carniverous way of life thus enabling brain growth. language, society, culture none of this would exist today. so why the superiority complex of the vegetarians?


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

RoseForTheDead said:


> It's not like in the old days where you only survived if you killed your own food...


Oh dear. There are worms everywhere now. Can you put the lid back on the can please?

Do you really think the likes of supermarkets are healthy for the global environment? Is mass production really sustainable?

Salmon is now lovely and cheap in the old supermarket because it is being mass produced in farms around the UK. 1000,s of these fish are kept in pens in lochs where there droppings settle on the sea bed in such quantity that it poisons to surrounding water affecting wild fish stocks in the loch. Due tot he confinements of the pens sea lice find them a breeding ground and will quickly spread to all of the fish if this is not detected early. Any migrating wild salmon that come into contact with these penned fish will become contaminated as a result resulting in depleted wild fish returning to our rivers. Not a big deal some may think but when you think of the millions of salmon egg and parr that become natural food for other species it then has a knock on effect. The salmon farmers usually feed there stock on food that is whitebait based which doesnt allow the salmon to produce the pink flesh that is found on wild fish so to compensate this factor and make it more "pleasing" to the public eye they introduce steroids and supplements to the water to induce the flesh to take on the desired shade. These supplements and steroids are not usually found in this quantity and the effects on the fish that decide to hang around are not known as yet.

To go to another influence that we are having on the wild stocks of fish:

Hormone therapy drugs are now found in such high levels in human waste water that is pumped into the ocean without treatment that more and more infertile fish are being found in coastal waters.

These are just a few examples of the vast amount of issues that relate to how we are affecting the natural balance of things. Perhaps if we could turn back the clocks we could go back to hunting and gathering our own food without the need for the Industrial Revolution making mass production in a shed possible with machinery and technology but then again we wouldn't be having this discussion on the technology we are right now and a great number of us wouldn't be here due to sustainability through the amount of produce to be farmed on the lands and the time taken for imports because we wouldn't have aeroplanes, tanker vessels and the transport means used today. What we would have though is a better relationship with our food, a concern for how it is produced and a better understanding of how to keep the balance. It would be beautiful though.

But people will always use the supermarkets as it allows to got to work to earn money to buy more consumables. There they are, inspecting bags of mass produced fruit and veg and putting anything back that has a mark on it, is too small, has a bruise or doesn't look aesthetically pleasing. What they will do though is look at the price. Sorry, not "the price", how naive of me, they will look at the monitory cost to them. "Buy one get one free" - what has to be sacrificed for you to get this product for 50% less cost to you? Is it really 50% less or is it half priced with a little helping of global consumption?

For those in places of starvation it is a very sad, desperate situation and they have my full support, but is that the human sacrifice that is taken by the planet and nature for other nation's greed? Now thats worth thinking about.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

borderer said:


> how can you eat the same as meat eaters ifyou are a vegy


Because there are vegetarian alternatives, as I explained in my previous post. As for a previous comment on why do veggies eat soya protein etc in the forum of a sausage or burger, well I do not work for those factories, and have to eat them in whatever form they produce.

I would also like to ask why some people are so anti vegetarians  I do not scorn people that eat meat, since it is a personal choice.

Yes, I am totally against killing anything regardless of its form, for the pure pleasure of watching a living creature die needlessly. Time and time again however, I reiterate that I have no problem with killing to eat. It is blood sports that I find utterly abhorant.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Well Im sure my family would have gone hungry when I was a kid if not for Rosie and Sammi the ferrets and my dads trusty shotgun!! Most of our protein came from rabbits, ducks and pigeons that he shot or trapped and fish he caught, the veg was grown in the garden and fruit was mainly 'scrumped' from surounding fields!!
This wasnt a lovely countryside upbringing but a council estate!! I was used to seeing my rabbit skinned, disemboweled, chopped up and cooked in a pie, and it was really tasty!!
Having said that I now have two pet bunnies and a third was killed by a neighbours JRT which devastated me. I stll eat meat but try to stick to the rspca 5freedoms stuff. I feel strongly about animals suffering needlessly rather than being lunch...
Also have the staunch anti-meat eaters considered what happens when a population isnt controlled. Anyone who has ever seen an outbreak of myxamotosis in wild rabbit colonies will know what I mean.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> Well Im sure my family would have gone hungry when I was a kid if not for Rosie and Sammi the ferrets and my dads trusty shotgun!! Most of our protein came from rabbits, ducks and pigeons that he shot or trapped and fish he caught, the veg was grown in the garden and fruit was mainly 'scrumped' from surounding fields!!
> This wasnt a lovely countryside upbringing but a council estate!! I was used to seeing my rabbit skinned, disemboweled, chopped up and cooked in a pie, and it was really tasty!!
> Having said that I now have two pet bunnies and a third was killed by a neighbours JRT which devastated me. I stll eat meat but try to stick to the rspca 5freedoms stuff. I feel strongly about animals suffering needlessly rather than being lunch...
> Also have the staunch anti-meat eaters considered what happens when a population isnt controlled. Anyone who has ever seen an outbreak of myxamotosis in wild rabbit colonies will know what I mean.


mixy is a terrible death for rabbits inroduced by man.i have killed lots of rabbits with mixy horrible


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> Well Im sure my family would have gone hungry when I was a kid if not for Rosie and Sammi the ferrets and my dads trusty shotgun!! Most of our protein came from rabbits, ducks and pigeons that he shot or trapped and fish he caught, the veg was grown in the garden and fruit was mainly 'scrumped' from surounding fields!!
> This wasnt a lovely countryside upbringing but a council estate!! I was used to seeing my rabbit skinned, disemboweled, chopped up and cooked in a pie, and it was really tasty!!
> Having said that I now have two pet bunnies and a third was killed by a neighbours JRT which devastated me. I stll eat meat but try to stick to the rspca 5freedoms stuff. I feel strongly about animals suffering needlessly rather than being lunch...
> Also have the staunch anti-meat eaters considered what happens when a population isnt controlled. Anyone who has ever seen an outbreak of myxamotosis in wild rabbit colonies will know what I mean.


Agreed I was also going to bring up the subject of myxamotosis, a healthy population of rabbits will not suffer such devastating effects of this dreadful desease, whereas an overpopulated warren will almost certainly be wiped out or every animal in the warren will be effected to the point of suffering


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

Nina said:


> Because there are vegetarian alternatives, as I explained in my previous post. As for a previous comment on why do veggies eat soya protein etc in the forum of a sausage or burger, well I do not work for those factories, and have to eat them in whatever form they produce.
> 
> I would also like to ask why some people are so anti vegetarians  I do not scorn people that eat meat, since it is a personal choice.
> 
> Yes, I am totally against killing anything regardless of its form, for the pure pleasure of watching a living creature die needlessly. Time and time again however, I reiterate that I have no problem with killing to eat. It is blood sports that I find utterly abhorant.


Hear hear Nina - totally agree re the sport killing


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

borderer said:


> mixy is a terrible death for rabbits inroduced by man.i have killed lots of rabbits with mixy horrible


touch wood i've not seen a rabbit with Myxi, but i've heard some horrific stories - i respect you borderer for putting these poor bunnies out of their misery, i dont know what i'd do if i saw one


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Aud's_Mum said:


> touch wood i've not seen a rabbit with Myxi, but i've heard some horrific stories - i respect you borderer for putting these poor bunnies out of their misery, i dont know what i'd do if i saw one


hope you never do see one with its eyes scabed its mouth all slavers its body falling to pieces not nice


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Aud's_Mum said:


> touch wood i've not seen a rabbit with Myxi, but i've heard some horrific stories - i respect you borderer for putting these poor bunnies out of their misery, i dont know what i'd do if i saw one


It's one of those times when a dog comes in handy, as sometimes they can catch them to be dispatched


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

rona said:


> It's one of those times when a dog comes in handy, as sometimes they can catch them to be dispatched


dont have to catch them they cant walk when they have mixy


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

borderer said:


> dont have to catch them they cant walk when they have mixy


Not in the early stages, if you can get them then it might help prevent the spread


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Just some info I found;

"The symptoms of myxomatosis include a watery discharge from the eyes and swelling of the eyelids and nose. Death follows in about two weeks. Since 1952, it has been illegal to spread the disease in Britain by the use of infected animals. Nevertheless, an epidemic broke out in Britain in 1953. It has been estimated that 99% of the rabbit population of over 60 million died in this epidemic."

My ex used to live next to a big country park (in Suffolk) and on a night time you'd see some with it  

It's awful to think we caused this - didn't humans develop it?


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## Little-moomin (Sep 28, 2008)

I am a vegetarian, I dont like the meat industry, and feel very strongly that it is wrong to create (breed) and bring up animals solely for the purpose of eating them. They have as much right to a life as we do, and it is up to us to care and help them.

Saying this, I do where leather, and I am trying not to, so sometimes I dont think what I says is strong due to me wearing leather.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Leah-Pardo said:


> I am a vegetarian, I dont like the meat industry, and feel very strongly that it is wrong to create (breed) and bring up animals solely for the purpose of eating them. They have as much right to a life as we do, and it is up to us to care and help them.
> 
> Saying this, I do where leather, and I am trying not to, so sometimes I dont think what I says is strong due to me wearing leather.


That's one thing I don't get, people who don't eat meat because of the reasons you say, but you're wearing a cow?  I aren't having a go, it just confuses me...


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

RoseForTheDead said:


> That's one thing I don't get, people who don't eat meat because of the reasons you say, but you're wearing a cow?  I aren't having a go, it just confuses me...


it might be a bull:001_tongue::hand:


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

borderer said:


> it might be a bull:001_tongue::hand:


Lol....


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Nina said:


> I would also like to ask why some people are so anti vegetarians  I do not scorn people that eat meat, since it is a personal choice.
> .


I'm not anti- vegetarians. I cook everyday for my vegetarian daughter.



borderer said:


> mixy is a terrible death for rabbits inroduced by man.i have killed lots of rabbits with mixy horrible


A few years ago were at a historical farm and in the veg patch was a rabbit with mixy.
The kids in the park (and a lot of the parents) were pretty distressed. The staff didn't know what to do. So my husband did the deed.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Leah-Pardo said:


> I am a vegetarian, I dont like the meat industry, and feel very strongly that it is wrong to create (breed) and bring up animals solely for the purpose of eating them. They have as much right to a life as we do, and it is up to us to care and help them.
> 
> Saying this, I do where leather, and I am trying not to, so sometimes I dont think what I says is strong due to me wearing leather.


Leah. you have stronger moral high ground than most and I respect your views more than most on this subject


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Fleur said:


> I'm not anti- vegetarians. I cook everyday for my vegetarian daughter.
> 
> A few years ago were at a historical farm and in the veg patch was a rabbit with mixy.
> The kids in the park (and a lot of the parents) were pretty distressed. The staff didn't know what to do. So my husband did the deed.


good man.............................


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

borderer said:


> good man.............................


LOL - he was a scout leader.

I know this thread has gone a little off track - but one question I asked my daughter when she decided to go vegetarian is that, She is continuing to drink milk so the milk industry uses cows obviously but doesn't need so many bulls, therefore what does she propose we do with all the baby bulls born every year?


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Fleur said:


> LOL - he was a scout leader.
> 
> I know this thread has gone a little off track - but one question I asked my daughter when she decided to go vegetarian is that, She is continuing to drink milk so the milk industry uses cows obviously but doesn't need so many bulls, therefore what does she propose we do with all the baby bulls born every year?


To true, thats even more dreadful than any field sport, but we all created the situation not the farmers


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

rona said:


> To true, thats even more dreadful than any field sport, but we all created the situation not the farmers


I'm in full support of the farmers - I come from farming stock - my uncle is a dairy farmer, spent 6 weeks every summer on his farm when I was a kid.


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## Little-moomin (Sep 28, 2008)

RoseForTheDead said:


> That's one thing I don't get, people who don't eat meat because of the reasons you say, but you're wearing a cow?  I aren't having a go, it just confuses me...


I know what you mean, I am trying not to because I dont like the idea of wearing a cow.

Although one thing, whilst people do kill animals I think it much more respectful to the animal to use it all up. It does not deserve to go to waste.

I once saw kill it cook it eat it, and was really upset by it. However I think generally if you are going to eat meat, you should also be prepared to kill the animal yourself. And I am not, so I wont eat meat.

I was thinking of taking up fish again because since I have been a veggie I have not felt as well, much less energy and seem to get ill more easily, but I dont want to, because why should animals die for the good of my health when I can get the benefits of meat, or most in other ways that do not harm animals.

I feel very strongly on this, but at the same time find it confusing.


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## Little-moomin (Sep 28, 2008)

I did not want to eat dairy for a while because I realized, that to get milk they need to get the cow pregnant, then the calf is taken away and for the rest of the cows life she is milked to make her produce more milk which I think is unethical.

I dont mind organic milk, as long as the animal is free range, and has not been milked excessively, so that her udders are unnaturally huge which is not fair for the cow.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2009)

Leah, I think you should get some advice on your diet. There is no reason for you to feel worse because you don't eat meat. If you were a vegan it might be different


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## Little-moomin (Sep 28, 2008)

I had a potassium defiancey for a while.
defincies
I hate needled so dont have blood tests much, so i need to have one to find any.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Living in the country, I see a lot of rabbits with myxomatosis and I can honestly say it is the most dreadful of diseases. It causes puffy, fluid swellings around the head and face, sores around the mouth swollen, 'sleepy' eyes, swollen lips, swellings inside the ears and swellings around the genital area.

A rabbit with this awful disease cannot move and looks almost comatosed. I have taken many a rabbit displaying these symptoms over to Tiggy Winkles, but sadly none have survived. 

I have also driven over a squirrel that was dieing a dreadful death, having just been hit by the car in front, to put it out of its misery. Believe me I have felt sick to my stomach in doing so, but I cannot bear to see a living creature suffer and in this case, no vet could have saved it.

I take my hat off to people like Borderer, who can put a creature out of its misery by wringing its neck. I am too much of a coward.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Nina said:


> Living in the country, I see a lot of rabbits with myxomatosis and I can honestly say it is the most dreadful of diseases. It causes puffy, fluid swellings around the head and face, sores around the mouth swollen, 'sleepy' eyes, swollen lips, swellings inside the ears and swellings around the genital area.
> 
> A rabbit with this awful disease cannot move and looks almost comatosed. I have taken many a rabbit displaying these symptoms over to Tiggy Winkles, but sadly none have survived.
> 
> ...


Nina, although your intentions are good, would it not be better to leave the poor rabbit where it is if you can't kill it. Picking it up is only going to cause it extreme stress when it is already ill, the ones that you could actually pick up by hand have no hope of surviving and you are only extending their suffering. Hopefully if you leave them were they are, a buzzard or fox will put them out of their suffering or possibly some other person or dog will do the deed that you find impossible


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

rona said:


> Nina, although your intentions are good, would it not be better to leave the poor rabbit where it is if you can't kill it. Picking it up is only going to cause it extreme stress when it is already ill, the ones that you could actually pick up by hand have no hope of surviving and you are only extending their suffering. Hopefully if you leave them were they are, a buzzard or fox will put them out of their suffering or possibly some other person or dog will do the deed that you find impossible


Rona, some of these animals can be saved, and are. Would you leave a really sick child to die a long and terrible death at the side of the road!

If there is only a tiny chance that a rabbit can be saved by my intervention, than I will do it.

A few weeks back I stopped to collect a rabbit that was not moving in my garden. I could not see any evidence of injuiry, but left, it would have been eaten alive by crows, so I rushed it over to Tiggy Winkles. It was released a couple of weeks later.

I think that the people in wild life centres would be extremely upset, if nobody bothered to help sick or injured wildlife. Perhaps you should spend a day at one of their centres Rona!


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Leah-Pardo said:


> I did not want to eat dairy for a while because I realized, that to get milk they need to get the cow pregnant, then the calf is taken away and for the rest of the cows life she is milked to make her produce more milk which I think is unethical.
> 
> I dont mind organic milk, as long as the animal is free range, and has not been milked excessively, so that her udders are unnaturally huge which is not fair for the cow.


I think you should do a little more research on how farm animals are kept, in essence you are right but some of the detail of this statement are incorrect.
I don't know where you get your facts from but do be careful of your sources, there are a lot of people on both sides of this debate that embellish the truth, so, the same as with dog information, you cannot believe everything you read


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Nina said:


> Rona, some of these animals can be saved, and are. Would you leave a really sick child to die a long and terrible death at the side of the road!
> 
> If there is only a tiny chance that a rabbit can be saved by my intervention, than I will do it.
> 
> A few weeks back I stopped to collect a rabbit that was not moving in my garden. I could not see any evidence of injuiry, but left, it would have been eaten alive by crows, so I rushed it over to Tiggy Winkles. It was released a couple of weeks later.


I was talking about the myxy rabbits, if they are not to badly affected, then yes they can and a lot do now survive, but the ones that you have discribed honestly have no hope, as it is not by that time, an external illness it will have affected some vital organs


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Nina said:


> Rona, some of these animals can be saved, and are. Would you leave a really sick child to die a long and terrible death at the side of the road!
> 
> If there is only a tiny chance that a rabbit can be saved by my intervention, than I will do it.
> 
> ...


Even tho a lot of ppl wouldn't I would do the same as Nina.
My OH was driving home from Rugby once when he saw a poorly rabbit at the side of the road, looked like it had been hit by a car... he couldn't drive on so pulled up wrapped it in a blanket and took it back to the club to see if anyone could help it or tell him where to take it, the main guy at that club said yeah give it here il help it...and he clubbed it to death. MY OH was devestated and didn't get over it for weeks. I know I could never do this, I would do anything to help and living creature regardless. People with Cancer don't give up, or lung/liver disease...we as humans do all we can to help them so why should this differ from Animals.

Just to add - replying to the comments on the first page by Hutch. I eat meat but could never ever kill it. I buy free range and like to think the animals had a good life. I dont think you have to kill an animal to be able to eat it, this is just IMO...


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> Even tho a lot of ppl wouldn't I would do the same as Nina.
> My OH was driving home from Rugby once when he saw a poorly rabbit at the side of the road, looked like it had been hit by a car... he couldn't drive on so pulled up wrapped it in a blanket and took it back to the club to see if anyone could help it or tell him where to take it, the main guy at that club said yeah give it here il help it...and he clubbed it to death. MY OH was devestated and didn't get over it for weeks. I know I could never do this, I would do anything to help and living creature regardless. People with Cancer don't give up, or lung/liver disease...we as humans do all we can to help them so why should this differ from Animals.
> 
> Just to add - replying to the comments on the first page by Hutch. I eat meat but could never ever kill it. I buy free range and like to think the animals had a good life. I dont think you have to kill an animal to be able to eat it, this is just IMO...


None of you would ever let your dog suffer this way, why a rabbit


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Aud's_Mum said:


> Then i hold my hands up - fair enough.
> 
> I'm very passtionate about animals, and i appreciate and understand animals have to be killed for various reasons - hey, i'm not a veggie, i eat meat (organic but still), so i'm not preaching about that. What i dont agree with is torturing an animal, making it suffer before it dies, choosing to kill for a sport....that kind of stuff.





Aud's_Mum said:


> Its just horrific that they are even making a flaming TV programme about killing animals!!
> 
> The only humane way to kill an animal is to shoot it in the head - there's no pain then.
> 
> ...


I completley agree wit you Aud's mum...



francesca colclough said:


> and quote fleur "the girl with far to make up on and appeared to live in a little bubble of her own with no real contact with animals". ....im the girl that was on the show last night...i have 5 dogs u bint, ive been a veggie for 21 year aka all of my life. Eye make up u say....thats just how i role, i wear make up, i wear designer clothes, i have money...but i love animals more then any make up brand, designer clothes so on that note...go catch aids...u stupid bitch...and i ******* love living in a bubble...the worlds a cruel place so if i feel safe in "a bubble" then that where i shall stay. U ovo live in a council house n thrive off people like me...as lets face it..people like u take my taxes.x.
> 
> What's with the big i am...who cares if you have money...you wear makeup do you realise that 99% of make up is tested on animals in the most outrageous circumstances...!! How the hell do you know that fleur doesn't work...your 21 obviously not been paying taxes for very long. I think you have some growing up to do!! You remind me of Nikki Graheme.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to say the reply I added before is based on what you posted.
I am sure you are ok, and the BBC did a lot of editing but maybe you could have put your point accross different?
Considering it was your first post it was a bit...look at me, im here!


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

rona said:


> None of you would ever let your dog suffer this way, why a rabbit


What do you mean?
How are you letting it suffer by trying to save it...


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> Even tho a lot of ppl wouldn't I would do the same as Nina.
> My OH was driving home from Rugby once when he saw a poorly rabbit at the side of the road, looked like it had been hit by a car... he couldn't drive on so pulled up wrapped it in a blanket and took it back to the club to see if anyone could help it or tell him where to take it, the main guy at that club said yeah give it here il help it...and he clubbed it to death. MY OH was devestated and didn't get over it for weeks. I know I could never do this, I would do anything to help and living creature regardless. People with Cancer don't give up, or lung/liver disease...we as humans do all we can to help them so why should this differ from Animals.
> 
> Just to add - replying to the comments on the first page by Hutch. I eat meat but could never ever kill it. I buy free range and like to think the animals had a good life. I dont think you have to kill an animal to be able to eat it, this is just IMO...


Oh thats awful - poor rabbit. It was the same for the fish that my husband caught, the guy on the boat promised he could put it back, but forgot to mention the hook was double sided  My husband cried while that fish died, and only then did i learn the extent of how bad fishing really can be. All the way back to land there were fish in the captains bucket, wriggling and struggling for breath - it absolutely broke my heart  Thats a long, painful death and it shouldnt be like that.

My Dad is a complete vegan - but yet wears leather, and has a baby goat skin pinned to his wall  He's so against eating animals and eating cheese but has no reason for why he still wears leather stuff!? This i find completely hypocritical and really dont understand it!!


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Aud's_Mum said:


> Oh thats awful - poor rabbit. It was the same for the fish that my husband caught, the guy on the boat promised he could put it back, but forgot to mention the hook was double sided  My husband cried while that fish died, and only then did i learn the extent of how bad fishing really can be. All the way back to land there were fish in the captains bucket, wriggling and struggling for breath - it absolutely broke my heart  Thats a long, painful death and it shouldnt be like that.
> 
> My Dad is a complete vegan - but yet wears leather, and has a baby goat skin pinned to his wall  He's so against eating animals and eating cheese but has no reason for why he still wears leather stuff!? This i find completely hypocritical and really dont understand it!!


Completley agree with you in regards to your Dad.
I am a meat eater and don't have a problem with veggies...
I will not kill an animal thou, Ever!! Altho I do understand it has to be done for us to eat, and highly respect the ppl that do it - in the right way.
I do like to buy free range for us. 
And if i see an animal in pain i would do whatever i could to help it.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> What do you mean?
> How are you letting it suffer by trying to save it...


If your dog had a dreadful disease with no hope or little hope with immense pain, you would take it to the vet to prevent the suffering.
This is all I'm saying, these rabbits that have got to the stage of not moving enough to avoid being picked up are really suffering.
Would it not be better to quickly dispatch them, or not put them through more stress and agony by you moving them.
I know all your hearts are in the right places but I just see it from a different angle. I cannot stand animals suffering but I am lucky I suppose that I can deal with any that are really bad.
I have taken animals to rescue centers but only if they seem to have a fighting chance of survival


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

edit: put this in the wrong thread


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Natik said:


> I myself dont agree with fishing and then releasing the fish? Whats the point of that?  Giving the fish stress and pain through the hook for the fun is not worth it imo.
> 
> My grandpa was fishing, but whatever he caught was killed straight away and eaten later!
> 
> ...


Christ, you know some weird shooting folk, gundogs are worth a fortune and take a great deal of training, I can't imagine anyone not being upset by loosing one even if it is only because they are difficult to replace, Though most gundog owners idolise their dogs


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

rona said:


> Christ, you know some weird shooting folk, gundogs are worth a fortune and take a great deal of training, I can't imagine anyone not being upset by loosing one even if it is only because they are difficult to replace, Though most gundog owners idolise their dogs


they not weird, they just have too much money  i dont think they train them themselves tbh


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

Katie&Cody said:


> Completley agree with you in regards to your Dad.
> I am a meat eater and don't have a problem with veggies...
> I will not kill an animal thou, Ever!! Altho I do understand it has to be done for us to eat, and highly respect the ppl that do it - in the right way.
> I do like to buy free range for us.
> And if i see an animal in pain i would do whatever i could to help it.


Absolutely 

I was a veggie for 10 yrs - i just fancied giving it a go and really enjoyed it. I never preached to people about eating 'dead animals' though, and always cooked meat for my mum, and a veggie option for me.

I only buy free range though, and i've stopped eating KFC's etc after i found out what they did to their chickens  I've never been a fan of McDonalds, and won't eat Halal meat as a matter of principle, but apart from that, as long as the animal has had a good and fair life, and is killed humanely then i dont mind. Killing for sport is just wrong - i wish we could do this with humans who rape & murder etc...i'm sure there are alot of people out there who would love to set a pack of dogs onto a murderer!


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

rona said:


> If your dog had a dreadful disease with no hope or little hope with immense pain, you would take it to the vet to prevent the suffering.
> This is all I'm saying, these rabbits that have got to the stage of not moving enough to avoid being picked up are really suffering.
> Would it not be better to quickly dispatch them, or not put them through more stress and agony by you moving them.
> I know all your hearts are in the right places but I just see it from a different angle. I cannot stand animals suffering but I am lucky I suppose that I can deal with any that are really bad.
> I have taken animals to rescue centers but only if they seem to have a fighting chance of survival


I appreciate your point.
But still wudn't be able to kill the animal or leave it...i'd be stuck!


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Katie&Cody said:


> I appreciate your point.
> But still wudn't be able to kill the animal or leave it...i'd be stuck!


So many people are Katie, you are not alone. You have to do whatever you can. I was just trying to give you a different perspective so that you would know that some people will despatch sick animals for the animals sake not just because they are bloodthirsty


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Francesca,

You tell em mate!!

Folks the whole point of the show was to get people with different views on this subject and show how they reacted to it, while informing the general and usually ignorant public how these things are done.

The editing on stuff like this is always biased towards how the programme makers want that person to appear to the viewers and will not give a good overall impression of the person if they don't want it to. Unless you know the person in question very well then don't assume they're as they've been portrayed.

It's JOURNALISM, take it with a pinch of salt AT ALL TIMES.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

rona said:


> I was talking about the myxy rabbits, if they are not to badly affected, then yes they can and a lot do now survive, but the ones that you have discribed honestly have no hope, as it is not by that time, an external illness it will have affected some vital organs


Living in the country, we often ge wild life that is injured, or sick. I fail to see your point rona about leaving them on the side of the road to suffer!

I think if you spend some time as a volunteer at a wild life hospital and speak to the people who work there, you will understand how cruel it is to leave an animal suffering.

Now if you are talking about people disturbing baby birds that have fallen out of their nest, that is another matter altogether. Their mothers are usually close by and it is best to leave well alone.


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## Little-moomin (Sep 28, 2008)

rona said:


> I think you should do a little more research on how farm animals are kept, in essence you are right but some of the detail of this statement are incorrect.
> I don't know where you get your facts from but do be careful of your sources, there are a lot of people on both sides of this debate that embellish the truth, so, the same as with dog information, you cannot believe everything you read


I learnt it at school and read about it and saw adverts about it and things. Obviously it is not going to be true for all farmers, and I may not be correct on each detail, but I read in a science book at school that calfs are taken from their mums really early and things.

I dont agree with intensive farming though under and circumstances.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Nina said:


> Living in the country, we often ge wild life that is injured, or sick. I fail to see your point rona about leaving them on the side of the road to suffer!
> 
> I think if you spend some time as a volunteer at a wild life hospital and speak to the people who work there, you will understand how cruel it is to leave an animal suffering.
> 
> Now if you are talking about people disturbing baby birds that have fallen out of their nest, that is another matter altogether. Their mothers are usually close by and it is best to leave well alone.


Ok. what do the people in the shelters do with these rabbits, are they PTS humanely or are they cared for until they die?


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

rona said:


> Ok. what do the people in the shelters do with these rabbits, are they PTS humanely or are they cared for until they die?


Wildlife hospitals are there to help sick and injured wildlife

If you are really interested in the work they do why not visit Welcome to Tiggywinkles Wildlife Hospital

Their receptionist felt that the last rabbit I took along, had been attacked by a dog. Are you suggesting that said rabbit should have remained at the side of the road, to be eaten alive by crows!


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Leah-Pardo said:


> I learnt it at school and read about it and saw adverts about it and things. Obviously it is not going to be true for all farmers, and I may not be correct on each detail, but I read in a science book at school that calfs are taken from their mums really early and things.
> 
> I dont agree with intensive farming though under and circumstances.


This was a method applied to breeds not usually used for dairy produce but the dairy breeds are specifally bred due to their spontaneous lactation qualities which enables them to produce milk whilst rarely experiencing a pregnancy.

If you don't agree with intensive farming where do you get your veg from? Unless you know the source is a small producer then the chances are your veg is grown in the 135squaer miles of the Spanigh Polythene Sea. The soil is so extensively farmed that upto four or five crop cycles can be proiduced in one year so if that is not intensive farming please explain what is.


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## Little-moomin (Sep 28, 2008)

Well, I mean intensive farming involving animals.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Nina said:


> Wildlife hospitals are there to help sick and injured wildlife
> 
> If you are really interested in the work they do why not visit Welcome to Tiggywinkles Wildlife Hospital


I do know about the work they do as I have saved several hedgehogs and a badger but a rabbit with Myxy which is what we are talking about will not survive when affected so badly as not to be able to escape. It is not only my opinion RWAF: Understanding Myxomatosis I think these people suggest that it is best to put them to sleep, so by taking them to a shelter you are just prolonging their agony.
I am well aware that a lot of people can't dispatch rabbits themselves but it would be better to take them to a vet to be PTS than to a shelter that prolongs their tortured lives. As I said before, you would not let your dog go through this level of pain


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Intensive farming of anything is never good for the produce involved regardless if it is walking or flowering.

Who on here buy's Barn eggs?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

hutch6 said:


> Erm....... debatable if you look at the history books or even today's news.
> 
> I have a love of all animals and have always had pets thropughout my life but i have no problem with killing an animal for food and have carried out many instances of this myself with full respect for the animal, the life it has led and how it was killed. Nothing goes to waste as I use the fur and feathers for other things
> 
> ...


Couldn't have put that better.


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## KarenHSmith (Apr 20, 2008)

I can't watch this program - Even the title just puts me off!! 

The rabbit's do not deserve it


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

rona said:


> I do know about the work they do as I have saved several hedgehogs and a badger but a rabbit with Myxy which is what we are talking about will not survive when affected so badly as not to be able to escape. It is not only my opinion RWAF: Understanding Myxomatosis I think these people suggest that it is best to put them to sleep, so by taking them to a shelter you are just prolonging their agony.
> I am well aware that a lot of people can't dispatch rabbits themselves but it would be better to take them to a vet to be PTS than to a shelter that prolongs their tortured lives. As I said before, you would not let your dog go through this level of pain


So the rabbits I have taken to the wild life hospital, should in your opinion, been left to die a horrific dealth, instead of being treated by Tiggy Winkles and released later  You have a very strange set of values rona


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Most of the rabbits with myxi would probably not survive and should be put down imho, they shouldn't be left to suffer. However, what you have to remember is that if there's one rabbit with myxi the whole colony is affected! You should take it to a local animal centre, or if you know who owns the land let them know they can take care of the rest of the colony.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2009)

Nina said:


> Living in the country, I see a lot of rabbits with myxomatosis and I can honestly say it is the most dreadful of diseases. It causes puffy, fluid swellings around the head and face, sores around the mouth swollen, 'sleepy' eyes, swollen lips, swellings inside the ears and swellings around the genital area.
> 
> A rabbit with this awful disease cannot move and looks almost comatosed. I have taken many a rabbit displaying these symptoms over to Tiggy Winkles, but sadly none have survived.
> 
> ...


This a from an earlier post of yours, in it you admit that none of these rabbits have survived. You also very bravely ran over a squirrel that was fatally injured.
Why was this put out of it's misery and not the rabbits.
I wouldn't leave a rabbit suffering from advanced myxy as i am in the fortunate position of being able to deal with most suffering animals myself.
If you cannot bring yourself to end the rabbits suffering then yes I believe you would be better leaving it to die a quicker death with less stress than if it were taken to an animal shelter, where the suffering is just prolonged.
If on the other hand you took it to a vet to be PTS then I would agree that it would be better being picked up


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

rona said:


> This a from an earlier post of yours, in it you admit that none of these rabbits have survived. You also very bravely ran over a squirrel that was fatally injured.
> Why was this put out of it's misery and not the rabbits.
> I wouldn't leave a rabbit suffering from advanced myxy as i am in the fortunate position of being able to deal with most suffering animals myself.
> If you cannot bring yourself to end the rabbits suffering then yes I believe you would be better leaving it to die a quicker death with less stress than if it were taken to an animal shelter, where the suffering is just prolonged.
> If on the other hand you took it to a vet to be PTS then I would agree that it would be better being picked up


I was talking about the last rabbit I took over to the wildlife centre that DID survive  Admittedly that did not have myxy, BUT, if you take the time to speak with a representative from any wild life hospital they will state that myxy CAN bet treated successfully if caught early enough.

The squirrel that I ran over had absolutely no hope of survival, since its lower body was actually crushed. It was a miracle that it had survived the first car! In those circumstances of course I would do everything in my power, to help a suffering animal.

If I believe that there is the slightest chance of an animal surviving, I would give it every chance and will continue to do so. Surely every living creature has the right to life regardless if it is in the wild or domesticated!


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2009)

Nina said:


> I was talking about the last rabbit I took over to the wildlife centre that DID survive  Admittedly that did not have myxy, BUT, if you take the time to speak with a representative from any wild life hospital they will state that myxy CAN bet treated successfully if caught early enough.
> 
> The squirrel that I ran over had absolutely no hope of survival, since its lower body was actually crushed. It was a miracle that it had survived the first car! In those circumstances of course I would do everything in my power, to help a suffering animal.
> 
> If I believe that there is the slightest chance of an animal surviving, I would give it every chance and will continue to do so. Surely every living creature has the right to life regardless if it is in the wild or domesticated!


I agree that in the early stages of myxy some rabbits will survive as our wild population have built up some resistance to this awful disease, however, the ones we have been discussing are capable of being caught by humans and they have very little if any hope. Just like your squirrel
I agree with your last statement, but I am sure, no dog of yours would be kept alive to suffer if it had no hope or was suffering unimaginable pain.
I know by reading other posts by you that you have a passion for animals of all kinds, as have I, but we have to face the reality of death and suffering sometimes.
Of course, if an animal has a broken bone or similar injuries, I would not presume to tell anyone not to take an animal to a rescue, however in the cases described with myxy I honestly believe it is cruelty to not put them to sleep


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