# Can't get my kitten to eat dry biscuits



## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

As many of you know I recently got my new baby Rosie, I have a problem with her food.
She won't eat dry biscuits at all, I have tried all sorts of different ones but she wont even look at them. I have soaked them in water, tried mixing them with her meat but still she wont eat them.

She is currently eating 2-3 70g tins of Applaws kitten per day and nothing else - she always has bisuits left out for her but just wont eat them.
I know the Applaws isn't a complete food so I need some ideas how to get the biscuits into her too.

Thanks guys

xx


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

This is going to sound really cruel, but it worked for me and did mine no harm
When I was trying to wean my kittens, two of them just would not try any food, so I ended up getting a kitten biscuit (actually it was half a kitten biscuit, coz their mouths we so small) and I opened their mouths, shoved the biscuit in. They both spat them out, then must have thought, oh actually I liked the taste of that and they then ate the bits of the floor that they had spat out.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2008)

Can I ask (without sounding rude) why you want to feed dry? Secondly is it Kitten bdry you are trying to feed her.
Personally I would feed wet until older! 
Maybe everyone will now come along and tell me how wrong I am, but one of my cats lived to be 19 the one I have now is 14 - wet has certainly done neither of them any harm.
regards
sue


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

I am trying to feed her dry too as the Applaws on its own isn't a complete food so to make sure she gets all the nutrients she needs.
I have tried her on James Wellbeloved Kitten and Royal Cain kitten - which she came home with in her kitten pack.
I have also tried her on Arden Grange kitten and also on Orijen - which I feed my older cats (suitable for kittens and cats)
But she hasn't bothered with any of them. She has had a sniff then walked away.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

That's actually a good thing because dried food is far from an ideal diet for cats. Applaws kitten is excellent, it is a complete food so she doesn't need anything else. Don't worry at all about her not eating biscuits. You could try her on different types of wet food, maybe cooked fish or chicken as well, for variety.



Toby & Darwin said:


> As many of you know I recently got my new baby Rosie, I have a problem with her food.
> She won't eat dry biscuits at all, I have tried all sorts of different ones but she wont even look at them. I have soaked them in water, tried mixing them with her meat but still she wont eat them.
> 
> She is currently eating 2-3 70g tins of Applaws kitten per day and nothing else - she always has bisuits left out for her but just wont eat them.
> ...


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Glad someone else feels the same as me re. dried food!



DoubleTrouble said:


> Can I ask (without sounding rude) why you want to feed dry? Secondly is it Kitten bdry you are trying to feed her.
> Personally I would feed wet until older!
> Maybe everyone will now come along and tell me how wrong I am, but one of my cats lived to be 19 the one I have now is 14 - wet has certainly done neither of them any harm.
> regards
> sue


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

I was led to believe Applaws is not a complete food which is why I was trying to get her onto biscuits too.
I have now emailed MPM products to ask them if it is a complete or not.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

The adult varieties are not, but the kitten is. Roger of MPM told us this on another forum last year. Certainly the kitten food was reformulated last year and it seems to be more palatable now - I use loads of it for my kittens 
Hope you get a quick response from MPM to set your mind at rest.



Toby & Darwin said:


> I was led to believe Applaws is not a complete food which is why I was trying to get her onto biscuits too.
> I have now emailed MPM products to ask them if it is a complete or not.


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

Yes I have just had an email from MPM and the kitten is a complete food and 2 - 3 tins should be plenty for her. It is just the adult that is not complete so she will need to start eating some biscuits when she gets a bit older.

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

If you wanted an alternative then Almo Nature do a kitten version, although I am not sure it is complete, but if you are feeding a variety of foods then that shouldn't matter. You can get that from Pet Supplies, Pet Food, Pet Accessories at zooplus they do several different foods that have very good quality ingredients.

I have to agree with what has been said before, if Rosie isn't into dry then thats a good thing. Have you tried her on raw or fresh meat? If you are worried about her getting the necessary vits etc on fresh there is a great supplement called Pet Plus you can get, they do a cat and a dog version.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

I feed dry, wet and raw foods to my cats.
Feeding wet foods only though means that there has to be a person present most of the day every day to do this, you can't leave a quantity of wet food down all day that gets stale when people are working or out of the house for a long time. This is what dry food comes in handy for.


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Angeli said:


> I feed dry, wet and raw foods to my cats.
> Feeding wet foods only though means that there has to be a person present most of the day every day to do this, you can't leave a quantity of wet food down all day that gets stale when people are working or out of the house for a long time. This is what dry food comes in handy for.


While I agree with what you say (and I leave dry down during the day for my lot) do they actually need food down all day? Can they not be fed set meals?


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

helz said:


> While I agree with what you say (and I leave dry down during the day for my lot) do they actually need food down all day? Can they not be fed set meals?


Yes but that depends how long you are going to be out otherwise there is going to be a very long gap between meals.

For instance, if I go to a show and it's some distance away, it's an early start of 4-5am and I might not get back till 7-8pm. That's a long time for an adult cat not to be fed never mind a young kitten.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Absolutely - cats are not cows, they do not need to graze, this is another myth that has been perpetuated by those dried food manufacturers 


helz said:


> While I agree with what you say (and I leave dry down during the day for my lot) do they actually need food down all day? Can they not be fed set meals?


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

You can get those electronic feeders that open at a set time. I think i'm going to get a couple for my cats now that I've stopped feeding dried food.



Angeli said:


> Yes but that depends how long you are going to be out otherwise there is going to be a very long gap between meals.
> 
> For instance, if I go to a show and it's some distance away, it's an early start of 4-5am and I might not get back till 7-8pm. That's a long time for an adult cat not to be fed never mind a young kitten.


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## Mrsbirnie (Feb 12, 2008)

My youngest Jura would only eat wet food up till about a month ago, I caught her eating some of the bigger cats dry food, now she happily eats both, as well as chicken, and mince.

Some kittens/cats just don't like dry, stick with what she is happy with. 

Some people say dry is easier as it can be left down all day and doesn't go off like wet does, but it has pros and cons. I'd leave a bowl of dry down so it's there if she ever fancies a nibble, but carry on with the wet food that she likes (this week  ) if she is anything like my lot, she will chop and change what she likes from week to week, or in my case day to day LOL!!

She's eating thats the main thing


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> Absolutely - cats are not cows, they do not need to graze, this is another myth that has been perpetuated by those dried food manufacturers


So basically if I am at a show all day then my 11 week old kittens should go without food nearly all day???????Sorry but I think that is not what I want my kittens or cats to go through. What exactly is so risky about cats being fed small portions of dry foods as long as its part of a varied diet? Yes cats were originally designed to eat raw meat only by hunting their prey, living outdoors etc. but as in the case of humans each generation has evolved into what it is now.

Electronic feeding dishes would not stop fresh food from spoiling, especially during summer months. My cats wont touch anything that is going off.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Almo isn't complete although they claim that it is!

I've not heard of pet plus, is that available from zooplus.co.uk?

I would like to work towards feeding more raw meats to my cats although we're doing pretty well on the current regime.



Saikou said:


> If you wanted an alternative then Almo Nature do a kitten version, although I am not sure it is complete, but if you are feeding a variety of foods then that shouldn't matter. You can get that from Pet Supplies, Pet Food, Pet Accessories at zooplus they do several different foods that have very good quality ingredients.
> 
> I have to agree with what has been said before, if Rosie isn't into dry then thats a good thing. Have you tried her on raw or fresh meat? If you are worried about her getting the necessary vits etc on fresh there is a great supplement called Pet Plus you can get, they do a cat and a dog version.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> I've not heard of pet plus, is that available from zooplus.co.uk?.


No http://petplus.info, I used to get mine from Pilgrim Vets they have a holistic section - Missing Link is another good supplement - but PP is cheaper from that site


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

I normally give my Bengal some raw mince at lunch time as he loves it - I left it out on the side to defrost this morning and found that Rosie had managed to sneak in the kitchen and climb up - I caught her happily scoffing Darwins mince so I guess she likes it too!!!

So I think what I will do with her is give her a tin of Applaws for breakfast some raw mince for lunch and at tea time she can have another tin of Applaws that should keep her going.
I must admit since I have put her on the Applaws she is a different cat, her coat is lovely and shiny and she just looks really healthy.
No offence to anyone who feeds Whiskas/Felix or any other brand but it simply doesn't compare.

ps my husband went for a job interview at the Nestle Purina factory (as a maintenance electrician) who make the Felix pouches he said the place stank and it was so disgusting how they made the "meat" that if I was feeding any of our cats that he would have said no more. It is amazing how they can make us think that we are getting real chunks of meat when infact it is nothing more than minced up rubbish turned into little meat shaped pieces then covered in gravy or jelly.....yuk


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Toby & Darwin said:


> ps my husband went for a job interview at the Nestle Purina factory (as a maintenance electrician) who make the Felix pouches he said the place stank and it was so disgusting how they made the "meat" that if I was feeding any of our cats that he would have said no more. It is amazing how they can make us think that we are getting real chunks of meat when infact it is nothing more than minced up rubbish turned into little meat shaped pieces then covered in gravy or jelly.....yuk


unfortunatly i think most pet food places would be like that. mass production of meat products isn't a pretty thing. Felix is better than some! Not to mention things like chocolate bars for us, the factories have a cut off number of how many rats, mice, bugs and such can fall into the mixture before they have to bin it as un usable... makes you wonder what's really in a crunchy bar!! lol  *giggle*


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

I had mega trouble with my kitten when I first brought her home, she wouldn't eat much of anything at all! After much trial and error I eventually settled (for now) with Whiska's kitten food in gravy (she wont eat anything in jelly) and Purina one kitten biccies. I know that Whiska's isn't great and I don't think the Purina is much better but I had little choice, she was 8wks old and weighed only 600g I had to get something into her. She is now 18 wks and is growing right before my eyes, I feel now she is strong enough for me to try a better variety of food for her rather than my initial thought which was to leave her until I convert from kitten to cat and just make one change instead of two minor changes. I'd like to keep her on a combo diet as I think the dry is good for their teeth but I know cats need meat. I suppose now I ned to try find single sachets or small bags of biccies untill I find the right thing. 
I heard that Tesco finest cat food is pretty good but not sure if it is wet or dry also has anyone tried Morrisons The Best kitten biccies? I looked at the nutrition and it seems ok?


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

claire17480 said:


> I had mega trouble with my kitten when I first brought her home, she wouldn't eat much of anything at all! After much trial and error I eventually settled (for now) with Whiska's kitten food in gravy (she wont eat anything in jelly) and Purina one kitten biccies. I know that Whiska's isn't great and I don't think the Purina is much better but I had little choice, she was 8wks old and weighed only 600g I had to get something into her. She is now 18 wks and is growing right before my eyes, I feel now she is strong enough for me to try a better variety of food for her rather than my initial thought which was to leave her until I convert from kitten to cat and just make one change instead of two minor changes. I'd like to keep her on a combo diet as I think the dry is good for their teeth but I know cats need meat. I suppose now I ned to try find single sachets or small bags of biccies untill I find the right thing.
> I heard that Tesco finest cat food is pretty good but not sure if it is wet or dry also has anyone tried Morrisons The Best kitten biccies? I looked at the nutrition and it seems ok?


you can sometimes go to the websites of the brands you like and request samples! i know James Wellbeloved do  not sure about Morrisons i have heard the Tescos is actually alright for a grocery brand but be aware of the additives and salt content.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Tescos Luxury and Finest pouches (fish / chicken varieties) are actually pretty good in terms of protein content and lack of additives. Natures Menu (from Pets at Home) is also good but it does have added sugar for some reason - I keep meaning to ask them why this is!



ErbslinTrouble said:


> you can sometimes go to the websites of the brands you like and request samples! i know James Wellbeloved do  not sure about Morrisons i have heard the Tescos is actually alright for a grocery brand but be aware of the additives and salt content.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Toby & Darwin said:


> ps my husband went for a job interview at the Nestle Purina factory (as a maintenance electrician) who make the Felix pouches he said the place stank and it was so disgusting how they made the "meat" that if I was feeding any of our cats that he would have said no more. It is amazing how they can make us think that we are getting real chunks of meat when infact it is nothing more than minced up rubbish turned into little meat shaped pieces then covered in gravy or jelly.....yuk


lips and arseholes (sorry ) thats mainly whats in most cheaper foods as "meat by products". Much better to go for things like applaws, almo nature, porta 21, Natures variety if you don't mind importing, where the contents look like what you would expect them to look. The Petfood Warehouse do a good range called Evangers as well.


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> Tescos Luxury and Finest pouches (fish / chicken varieties) are actually pretty good in terms of protein content and lack of additives. Natures Menu (from Pets at Home) is also good but it does have added sugar for some reason - I keep meaning to ask them why this is!


sugars and salts are sometimes used as a natural preservative and sometimes the natural veggies and fruits they use in the ingredients add the sugar or the rice/carbs break down into sugars. some also put it in for taste/palletability(is that a word?) lol kitties like sweet things.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I didn't think cats had any "sweet" taste receptors at all?? Why would they, being carnivores?



ErbslinTrouble said:


> sugars and salts are sometimes used as a natural preservative and sometimes the natural veggies and fruits they use in the ingredients add the sugar or the rice/carbs break down into sugars. some also put it in for taste/palletability(is that a word?) lol kitties like sweet things.


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## Pink Lady (Aug 1, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> Tescos Luxury and Finest pouches (fish / chicken varieties) are actually pretty good in terms of protein content and lack of additives. Natures Menu (from Pets at Home) is also good but it does have added sugar for some reason - I keep meaning to ask them why this is!


I also feed Natures Menu Kitten as it seems to have the highest meat content of 71% where as some of the others only have 4% and (touch wood) none of my kittens have ever suffered with any upset tummies, especially when being weaned.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Mine like that too.


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> I didn't think cats had any "sweet" taste receptors at all?? Why would they, being carnivores?


no they've done new research that suggests different! cats can distinguish between four different tastes: sour, salty, bitter and sweet. Before they thought cats were unable to taste sweets because cats rarely show interest in sugary foods. But it's recently been established that cats have a few sweet-sensitive taste buds on the back of their tongues.
cats also have an extra tasting/smelling sense called the Jacobson's organ. when you see them sniff something and then hold their mouths open a bit or drool they are using the Jacobson's organ


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> I didn't think cats had any "sweet" taste receptors at all?? Why would they, being carnivores?


oh and what would being a carnivore have to do with not tasting sweet?

also isn't the reason anti freeze is so attractive and tasty to cats because it's sweet smelling and tasting? I could be wrong... i thought i heard this somewhere. (ps not arguing just asking!)


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Toby & Darwin said:


> I normally give my Bengal some raw mince at lunch time as he loves it - I left it out on the side to defrost this morning and found that Rosie had managed to sneak in the kitchen and climb up - I caught her happily scoffing Darwins mince so I guess she likes it too!!!
> 
> So I think what I will do with her is give her a tin of Applaws for breakfast some raw mince for lunch and at tea time she can have another tin of Applaws that should keep her going.
> I must admit since I have put her on the Applaws she is a different cat, her coat is lovely and shiny and she just looks really healthy.
> ...


Actually you might be interested in this:

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/petfood.pdf



> The material of animal origin used by the pet food industry comprises those parts of animals which are either deemed surplus to human consumption or are not normally consumed by people in the UK, and derived from animals inspected and passed as fit for human consumption prior to slaughter. Animal material of this nature, which is not intended for human consumption, is classified as "animal by-products" under the EC Regulation on Animal By-Products for which Defra is responsible, and assigned the lowest risk rating. This rating requires that the material be free of any transmissible disease, which therefore excludes material from dying, diseased or disabled animals.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

You also might be interested in this:

Cat Food Uncovered

I am not advocating this article but I feel it gives another perspective.

Most, if not all, of the 'anti-dry food' websites are American in origin. This article makes very clear there are different food standard regulations operating in USA and UK, with UK (or EEC) being the higher standard.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I'm sure i read somewhere about cats not having taste receptors for sweet substances, but you're right about them being attracted to antifreeze although I can't tell you what it tastes like!



ErbslinTrouble said:


> oh and what would being a carnivore have to do with not tasting sweet?
> 
> also isn't the reason anti freeze is so attractive and tasty to cats because it's sweet smelling and tasting? I could be wrong... i thought i heard this somewhere. (ps not arguing just asking!)


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> Occasionally you may observe your cat making an open-mouthed grimace called "The Flehmen Response." Your cat is simply employing his other scent detector. A cat's sense of taste is unique, to say the least. It lacks the ability to detect sweetness, but it can differentiate the slightest variations in the taste of water.


*You're right Naomi they don't. Just for clarification I found the article above*


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> I'm sure i read somewhere about cats not having taste receptors for sweet substances, but you're right about them being attracted to antifreeze although I can't tell you what it tastes like!


yeh they used to think this but apparently have done some more research! cool eh?


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

this one is copywritten 2003 Your Cat's Sense of Taste : Cat Communication : Your Cat's Mind

there's another one from the veterinary times but i can't access it from home. 

this one suggests that some can and some can't through evolution! <GEEK ALERT>

Monell Chemical Senses Center, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.

Although domestic cats (Felis silvestris catus) possess an otherwise functional sense of taste, they, unlike most mammals, do not prefer and may be unable to detect the sweetness of sugars. One possible explanation for this behavior is that cats lack the sensory system to taste sugars and therefore are indifferent to them. Drawing on work in mice, demonstrating that alleles of sweet-receptor genes predict low sugar intake, we examined the possibility that genes involved in the initial transduction of sweet perception might account for the indifference to sweet-tasting foods by cats. We characterized the sweet-receptor genes of domestic cats as well as those of other members of the Felidae family of obligate carnivores, tiger and cheetah. Because the mammalian sweet-taste receptor is formed by the dimerization of two proteins (T1R2 and T1R3; gene symbols Tas1r2 and Tas1r3), we identified and sequenced both genes in the cat by screening a feline genomic BAC library and by performing PCR with degenerate primers on cat genomic DNA. Gene expression was assessed by RT-PCR of taste tissue, in situ hybridization, and immunohistochemistry. The cat Tas1r3 gene shows high sequence similarity with functional Tas1r3 genes of other species. Message from Tas1r3 was detected by RT-PCR of taste tissue. In situ hybridization and immunohistochemical studies demonstrate that Tas1r3 is expressed, as expected, in taste buds. However, the cat Tas1r2 gene shows a 247-base pair microdeletion in exon 3 and stop codons in exons 4 and 6. There was no evidence of detectable mRNA from cat Tas1r2 by RT-PCR or in situ hybridization, and no evidence of protein expression by immunohistochemistry. Tas1r2 in tiger and cheetah and in six healthy adult domestic cats all show the similar deletion and stop codons. We conclude that cat Tas1r3 is an apparently functional and expressed receptor but that cat Tas1r2 is an unexpressed pseudogene. A functional sweet-taste receptor heteromer cannot form, and thus the cat lacks the receptor likely necessary for detection of sweet stimuli. This molecular change was very likely an important event in the evolution of the cat's carnivorous behavior.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

that really is geeky! I think they are saying that in mammals in general, 2 receptors are needed for recognition of sweet tastes but cats only have one functional receptor so they can't taste sweet things. Genetics has moved on a lot since I was at university!!



ErbslinTrouble said:


> this one is copywritten 2003 Your Cat's Sense of Taste : Cat Communication : Your Cat's Mind
> 
> there's another one from the veterinary times but i can't access it from home.
> 
> ...


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> that really is geeky! I think they are saying that in mammals in general, 2 receptors are needed for recognition of sweet tastes but cats only have one functional receptor so they can't taste sweet things. Genetics has moved on a lot since I was at university!!


yes but with some cats they can i think is what i got out of it. but only some. dunno gonna dig up that Veterinary Times article at work on monday! it's buggin me now!


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