# GCCF New Show Class Structure



## Donskie (Feb 2, 2011)

GCCF Certificate Classes at Championship Shows change from 1st June, 2011 

A cat can enter only ONE certificate class and exhibitors should check carefully which class their cat is eligible for.

For example: cats with Champion/Premier titles will not be able to enter the Open (Breed) class and must enter and compete for the Grand Certificate. Only untiltled cats can enter the Open class.

Looks like this is inline with the new Olympian Certificates which you can enter and compete in once your Imperial Certificate has been achieved.

What do you all think about the new stucture? I was told about this over the weekend but did see it posted on the GCCF website this morning.


----------



## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Love it but can understand why people don't like it.


----------



## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

messyhearts said:


> Love it but can understand why people don't like it.


I can't see why people would object. It all sounds very sensible to me.
Why do exhibitors enter a cat into Champion/ Premier classes when their cat already has theat award? Seems pointless to me.


----------



## Donskie (Feb 2, 2011)

BSH said:


> I can't see why people would object. It all sounds very sensible to me.
> Why do exhibitors enter a cat into Champion/ Premier classes when their cat already has theat award? Seems pointless to me.


I was one of those people who went to shows all over the country to try and get away from people who kept entering their titled cats in the open classes. That was few years ago when I was showing my neutered boy, my first show cat that I bred, we were both novice to the show world and I found it very disheartening at the time. I am looking forward to the change.


----------



## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

BSH said:


> I can't see why people would object. It all sounds very sensible to me.
> Why do exhibitors enter a cat into Champion/ Premier classes when their cat already has theat award? Seems pointless to me.


They do it because they either want points for a trophy with a club or they are doing it because they want to guarantee a critique if they miss out on an Imp or a Grand.

The change means that breed clubs no longer can have cats with Imp titles in as they can't do the Olympian. A lot of small breed clubs rely on some people bringing these cats to boost numbers/entries so there is concern that this change has killed the breed club shows.

Personally, after hearing so many novices moan about how dear a show entry is & how pointless it is when the same "Supreme & UK Imperial Grand Ch/Pr" is in their grand/imp/open class & then never to return to a cat show, I think it's fab!


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I have mixed feelings on the changes, probably just, on balance, being in favour of them with one or two reservations. I can entirely understand someone who is showing in perhaps a limited geographical area (and don't we all to some extent given the cost of fuel) who continually comes up against the same, perhaps more mature cat that is a already a ch/pr/gr, etc and still being entered in the regular open class, or gr class when it is already a gr, etc, getting mightily cheesed off.

On the other hand I think titled cats are there to be beaten; it should give breeders something to aspire to and uphold the quality. I know some judges will withhold if they don't feel they have a cat in the open class worthy of a certificate but the fact is that many don't. I hope the changes don't lead to a 'cheapening' of titles earned... at shows which are already often depleted to only one or two cats in open classes.


----------



## Donskie (Feb 2, 2011)

There will be a time when you would want to enter into your own breed club show but may not be able to if your cat is at Imperial status. I know I like to support my cat club and enjoying entering a cat at the annual show. This could be a disappointment for many. Yes you would not see these spectacular cats under normal competing conditions but surely this could open up the opportunity to show off your cat as an exhibition exhibit and an inspiration to others.

Plus thinking about this more and being the novice chasing certs in the past, wouldn't more people be more attending shows if they know that titled cats will not be competing in the same class as them?


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Donskie said:


> Plus thinking about this more and being the novice chasing certs in the past, wouldn't more people be more attending shows if they know that titled cats will not be competing in the same class as them?


I'm absolutely certain there are instances of owners continually showing the same titled cat(s) in open/grand classes though, oddly, it doesn't appear to happen very much at all in 'my' section - British Shorthaired. I do, however, recall it happening much more commonly in the neuter section; not sure why... perhaps because neuters tend to look/stay in good condition year round, where entire queens are off the bench having kittens and studs may not look their best year round.

I do sincerely hope the new structure will encourage people to show - god knows show entries have declined dramatically. I'm still not convinced though that that, in the main, is a result of titled cats being shown in their open class. When money is tight for people, as has been the case in recent years, one of the first things to go out of the window is expenditure on their hobby. If we do see an upward turn in show entries as a result of the new class structure, I honestly think it will very minimal... but I do hope I'm proven wrong


----------



## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

BSH said:


> I can't see why people would object. It all sounds very sensible to me.
> Why do exhibitors enter a cat into Champion/ Premier classes when their cat already has theat award? Seems pointless to me.


why do man utd still play in the prem when they've already won it?


----------



## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

Biawhiska said:


> why do man utd still play in the prem when they've already won it?


Thats not the same comparison is it? I would have no objection to a cat being repeatedly enetered into the Imperial Class (or soon to be Olympian Class).

Your question should be why would man utd choose to re-enter the First Division when thay had qualified for the Premier Division surely?


----------



## rcmadd (Feb 6, 2011)

a good idea..... it now gives other cats a chance to win things...


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

See, that just makes me want to ask - do we remove the faster, stronger, etc, from anything competitive to make way for the slower, weaker, etc, just so they can win? 

As I said before I am, just, in favour of the changes. I just hope it doesn't have a detrimental effect.


----------



## ragadee (Feb 13, 2011)

What is the point entering cats in to a class they have won and carnt progress anymore in that class you have been there and got the t-shirt so I think it gives the newbie a chance.I do hope it brings more people back to showing.it would be nice for your cat to beat a GC cat but what are the odds of beating it not very high.I think it's great news and fair.


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I can't really disagree with 'what's the point?' from the perspective of the owner of an already titled cat being in a class for which it has already gained that title. It seems a bit bloody minded to me But as I've said, I'm still not convinced that there's a big enough element of (quite rightly) disgruntled owners who don't show a particular cat as they're continually coming up against titled cats in their open class to make *any* sort of significant difference to the size of show entries. One only needs to look through the results in most sections to note that many, many cats are achieving championship status, never having actually beaten another cat in its minimum of three open classes simply because numbers entered are so incredibly poor. 

I think it's highly likely that 90% of this 'absence' can be put down to other factors.


----------



## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

There is a big discussion about this on the Cat Planet Facebook page if anyone wants too join in.


----------



## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> See, that just makes me want to ask - do we remove the faster, stronger, etc, from anything competitive to make way for the slower, weaker, etc, just so they can win?


But it won't allow "weak" cats to win. If the cat is not worthy of a First, BOB, CC/PC or whatever, it will not be awarded, even if that cat is the only entrant in that class. Every show had awards witheld if a cat does not meet the stanadard expected by that Judge.


----------



## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

gskinner123 said:


> See, that just makes me want to ask - do we remove the faster, stronger, etc, from anything competitive to make way for the slower, weaker, etc, just so they can win?
> 
> As I said before I am, just, in favour of the changes. I just hope it doesn't have a detrimental effect.


I don't think this is the case! Judges can & SHOULD withhold where appropriate. But if cat A is only ever going to be of Champion or Premier title then why should the UK IMP GR CH/PR cat B block cat A from getting to that low level? Cat A should be able to prove s/he is a CH/PR. They will NEVER get PR/CH if Cat B is always in the class.

Personally, I think it is all fab except the Olympian. They should have simply said no to cats being entered into two opens. Keep the IMP class strong but clear out the Grands & Opens of trophy-point hunters.


----------



## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

BSH said:


> I can't see why people would object. It all sounds very sensible to me.
> Why do exhibitors enter a cat into Champion/ Premier classes when their cat already has theat award? Seems pointless to me.


I agree 100%, ....I think its about time that this was reviewed by the GCCF. and let everyone have a chance............best wishes........Chris


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Still not 100% convinced despite (two) very strong 'arguments' for the new structure  But as I said, on balance I am in favour of it.

Perhaps I've just been showing for too long. I can remember a time - and it wasn't that many years ago - where open classes consisting of ten or more cats were commonplace. Making a cat up to champion was a real achievement and remember we had only a fraction of the number of shows in the year then too.

I know some judges will withhold but too many do not - I spent enough years stewarding and hearing judges say "I feel mean withholding, though I should... s/he's the only cat in the class....".

Perhaps my gripe is more with the quality and consistency of judging than the new class structure.


----------



## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

If a cat gains the title of CH/PR surely its proved itself at that level, what is there to gain by winning the same title over and over, even if you win it 20 times the cat is still only a CH/PR.


----------



## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Donskie said:


> There will be a time when you would want to enter into your own breed club show but may not be able to if your cat is at Imperial status. I know I like to support my cat club and enjoying entering a cat at the annual show. This could be a disappointment for many. Yes you would not see these spectacular cats under normal competing conditions but surely this could open up the opportunity to show off your cat as an exhibition exhibit and an inspiration to others.
> 
> Plus thinking about this more and being the novice chasing certs in the past, wouldn't more people be more attending shows if they know that titled cats will not be competing in the same class as them?


Another solution might be for the breed clubs to come up with a different class for those cats who have already achieved all their titles so they can continue to compete with one another without affecting those aiming to get the titles. This new class may not win more titles but maybe could give the entrants points and so keep both the club and people showing happy.


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

raggs said:


> If a cat gains the title of CH/PR surely its proved itself at that level, what is there to gain by winning the same title over and over, even if you win it 20 times the cat is still only a CH/PR.


Couldn't agree more. I certainly wouldn't waste my money and time; I've never entered a titled cat into an open/gr class if it was already a ch/gr.


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Sacremist said:


> Another solution might be for the breed clubs to come up with a different class for those cats who have already achieved all their titles so they can continue to compete with one another without affecting those aiming to get the titles. This new class may not win more titles but maybe could give the entrants points and so keep both the club and people showing happy.


An area club who run a large, popular show in the south east used to (not sure if they still do) put on a similar sort of class. It was for all breed Gr Ch and Gr Pr (it started in the days of pre Imperial titles) where the cats all competed against one another, though separated into neuter/entire. No titles to be gained obviously but the winners went forwards to be considered for best in show. It was an immensely popular class.. then sort of died a death the last time I looked with very, very few entries. Hard times, I guess (and the advent of the Imperial class).


----------



## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> An area club who run a large, popular show in the south east used to (not sure if they still do) put on a similar sort of class. It was for all breed Gr Ch and Gr Pr (it started in the days of pre Imperial titles) where the cats all competed against one another, though separated into neuter/entire. No titles to be gained obviously but the winners went forwards to be considered for best in show. It was an immensely popular class.. then sort of died a death the last time I looked with very, very few entries. Hard times, I guess (and the advent of the Imperial class).


I'm not sure if the Birman Cat Club still do it because I haven't shown in the club show for a few years due to the distance I would have to travel, but they also used to hold a Fireside Class for pet quality Birmans. I entered a couple of my first pet quality Birmans in this class and it was fun. It could be another way the club shows could boost profits to make up for the loss of income from entrants who would show in the Open Class with titled cats.


----------



## rcmadd (Feb 6, 2011)

BSH said:


> But it won't allow "weak" cats to win. If the cat is not worthy of a First, BOB, CC/PC or whatever, it will not be awarded, even if that cat is the only entrant in that class. Every show had awards witheld if a cat does not meet the stanadard expected by that Judge.


i can vouch for that... my blue bi raggy boy got 1st withheld due to him having too much white on his face.. he was the only entrant...in that class.


----------



## Donskie (Feb 2, 2011)

Sacremist said:


> I'm not sure if the Birman Cat Club still do it because I haven't shown in the club show for a few years due to the distance I would have to travel, but they also used to hold a Fireside Class for pet quality Birmans. I entered a couple of my first pet quality Birmans in this class and it was fun. It could be another way the club shows could boost profits to make up for the loss of income from entrants who would show in the Open Class with titled cats.


I used to show a redpoint birman in the fireside classes, Daredare was entered in the first show that held these classes and they seemed to be very popular.


----------



## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Donskie said:


> I used to show a redpoint birman in the fireside classes, Daredare was entered in the first show that held these classes and they seemed to be very popular.


I showed Jake and Chino and they did well. It was my first introduction to showing Birmans. I later bought a couple of show quality Birmans and showed them too. I really enjoyed it. I think it would open up showing to a lot more people if more clubs did this. Then again, maybe they do. LOL!


----------



## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

I agree that it isn't that difficult to get to CH status, and i agree that many judges don't withhold, some of the judges are pushing 80/90, i think this change is good news.

I know of someone who is well known for always entering the Open classes with cats already at CH status, really annoying to some!!

Bring it on i say!!


----------

