# Please help me - think neighbours will report me!



## capricorn1980 (Oct 7, 2009)

My neighbours dropped a note round last month complaining that my dog (13 yo Border Collie) was howling and barking when I go out of the house in the morning. They said it had been going on for a long time, but they felt they really had to say something now because it was ramadan and they were finding it difficult because they were getting up to start their day at 4am and couldn't catch up on their sleep afterwards because I leave the house at 7.30am and the dog would start making a noise.

I went round to see them and was very apologetic - I'm obviously mortified that he's causing trouble and I don't want friction with neighbours. I had no idea he was causing noise as no matter what time of day I go back to the house he is always fast asleep - in fact only recently I went back at 8am (having forgotten something) and he was happily curled up asleep - so I'm not sure that it is every day at all!

I had a long chat with the lady, who was very polite about it - she even said that she knew there probably wasn't a great deal I could do. She said he starts about 15 mins after I leave the house and goes on 'for ages' (although despite me asking she managed to avoid being specific on duration). He also sometimes starts at about 5pm. At all other times they don't hear him - despite other dogs in the street barking all day at passers by - I keep my curatains closed to avoid this.

I explained that I would try and tire him out a bit more in the mornings and would try a few other things - I've installed a DAP diffuser, I've started to leave the TV on for background noise and I'm trying to do some desensitisation stuff (leaving him for just a few minutes) when possible. He is already left with a pigs ear and lots of toys every day.

Initially I had some success - the first or second day she came over to me gushing about how he'd been quiet that morning - but I suspected this was a bit of a fluke as I fully expected it to take weeks/possibly months to sort out.

It seems they are not prepared to wait that long as I have received another note from them saying that he is continuing to be noisy and 'something needs to be done about it'. I can't see at this point that there is anything else I can offer to do - I have to go to work, I live alone so there is nobody else to look after him, kennels/dog daycare is both too expensive and not convenient hours (not open when I leave for the office which is when its a problem). I've tried to make sure I don't go out in the evenings and am taking him with me whenever I can.

I have to go round and talk to them again, but I keep bursting into tears at the thought of it - I'm worried they will complain to the environmental health and I'll end up with an ASBO or a fine - or worse that they'll take him off me. He's 13 years old and I've had to work hard with him over the years as he has so many phobias and nervous aggression issues - the family always joke that if he belonged to anyone else he would have been destroyed years ago. He'd have no hope of being rehomed!

I know I'm in the wrong here, he is left alone for far too long during the day, but in all other respects he is happy and for 13 years old he is in excellent health.

Is it too much to ask my neighbours to put up with a bit of noise? In February my mum will retire and will be able to take care of him at her house during the day (at least a few days a week anyway).

Can anyone offer any advice on this subject.
How much noise is considered unreasonable? How quickly would I be expected to solve the problem? Is there anything that I'm not doing that might help stop him howling?


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## Frin13 (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm not really sure where you stand with the law on this one, I wonder if it would be worth having the day off and seeing exactly how long you dog alledgely howls and barks for?
what about a stuffed kong thingy to much on just after you leave for work. 
xx


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

First off I would invest in a recording devise of some kind just to find out if it is him doing it. You'd be surprised how many people complain about dogs making noise to find out its not the dog but a neighbouring one further up the road. 

Sadly if he is making the noise it is your responsiblity to ensure he's quiet. I know it's difficult but find out first that is definatley is him and then work from there.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Can you set up a webcam to find out exactly how much barking he is actually doing?

However, I have another thought, has he had a check up recently? It may be he is losing his hearing, which might make him bark more, simply because he can't identify sounds anymore. Meaning, he hears things, but doesn't know what he's hearing so he barks.

Or he may be developing some senility.

I suggest a vet check up first. 

Then...have you tried leaving a radio on softly to help keep him calm, and to screen out other sounds? Oh, and some rescue remedy might help, too.

But I'd go with the vet check first.


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## capricorn1980 (Oct 7, 2009)

Unfortunately it is definitely him, all the other dogs in our area bark, my dog 'sings' - but I do need to set up some sort of recorder to see how long he goes on. I just haven't had chance to do it as its been such a busy month.

He is getting a bit deaf - has been doing for some time, which in all other respects is a blessing as its ended his firework phobia. And he is going a bit senile/getting a bit forgetful. But all that only makes things worse as surely it makes it even harder to stop?

He's left with a stuffed kong on days when I don't have any pigs ears, but he finishes the kong biscuits really quickly (he may be going senile but he's still pretty clever!). I've just been reading about frozen kongs which sound like a good idea - has anyone any experience of these??? What works well?


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

Have you tried raw marrow bones from the butcher,keeps our ten dogs busy for ages.
Just thinking of something to get you through til february


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

I have used raw large marrow bones with my guys it keeps them busy forever, plus I have also frozen kongs they too are loved, as already said see if you can tape his behaviour, also maybe if you can arrange to go into work say an hour each day later, and go out as normal and hang about to see if he IS doing this, sometimes you may find out what triggers this behaviour, ie bin men coming round, the sound of postie, kids going to school etc, these could all triggering him off and you would know which it is? if its the postie, have amailbox fitted outside so he dosnt post into your house, if its binmen you can let your neighbour know its only when they come round etc. dont fret, I am sure you will get to the bottom of this, and if you explaine to your neighbour that your mum will be coming around in Feb, they may take heart and not officially complain, good luck.

Mo


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## trabonita (Mar 20, 2009)

First of all, go round to your neighbours and tell them you are dealing with the problem but it may take some time so they will have to be patient! It is not your fault that your neighbours are in their house all day! If you leave the radio/tv on this may drown out some of his noise. I don't think there is anything legally they can do as it is not antisocial hours that your dog is howling and if the camcorder shows that he is only doing it on and off and not constantly, then they may just be over reacting. I really sympathise with you as my dog is exactly the same. Would you not consider a dog walker? I only pay £6 per half hr for mine and my dog is a lot more settled being left by the dog walker than he would be if it were me leaving him again! if your really concerned you could contact the council yourself to see where you stand?


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

I'd say they could only put in a complaint if it was through the night where the vas majority of your street would be asleep, during the day I personally don't see how they complain...

As others have said record it so you have proof. Also you could try leaving classical music on, or maybe invest in one of those special dog music CD's which calm dogs down, when left alone?

Hide treats around the house?


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## My2Girls (Oct 5, 2009)

This is terrible that this is happening to you and shame on your neighbours for not being a little more understanding... 

If it was me i would definitely do the recording as other have suggested and also contact the enviromental health or dog warden myself and see if they can offer you any advice... after all the environmental health officer probably comes up against these kinds of issues everyday and they may have some tips for you... Also being a little sneeky.... if your neighbour did report you to Environmental Health then if you have already contacted them for advice you would be ahead of the game so to speak! 

I wish you luck! x


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## gungirl (Aug 30, 2009)

They haven't got a leg to stand on by law from 7am onwards, so I wouldn't fret about ur neighbours, just deal with his problem in ur's and his own time! No-one will take ur dog away from you, he's not aggressive and ur caring for him appropriately! If they complain it will take months and months for this to go thru and by this time you're mum will be around! I'm also quite sure that if you keep a log of all that you are doing to releive this "noise problem" and keep all the recordings you make of his "singing" then you shouldn't have a problem as you are taking appropriate action and have proof of such!

Just enjoy ur dog's twilight years!


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## barneythore (Jul 11, 2009)

my old jack russell went like this he also did it when i was in the house the vet said he had gone deaf and senial bless him


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Our neighbours used to complain about William barking during the day. Then one day we were just getting out of the car when she came round and said -that dam dog has been barking all day.

I said to her you must have bl***y good hearing then. She asked why so I opened the car door and showed her William sitting happily in the crate in the back. We had been to a friends in Worcester all day and had taken William with us.

Even if you know it is definitely him making the noise I would still invest in some sort of recording equipment and record the noise he is making. That way if she does complain to enviromental health you can proove how long exactly he was making a noise for.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

How about on Saturday morning, get up as usual, follow the exaxt same routine, put on your work clothes and leave the house as you do every day during the week and then wait outside your house window (the one witht he closed curtains and see what happens.

Secondly ramadam was AGES ago so they've missed a trick there. The guys at work were on ramadam in early September.


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## capricorn1980 (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks for all the lovely replies everyone! I feel a lot calmer now.
They weren't in last night so I'll try and call round to talk to them tonight instead.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

hutch6 said:


> Secondly ramadam was AGES ago so they've missed a trick there. The guys at work were on ramadam in early September.


Yes, I believe it finished on 19th September, so they can't use that as an excuse any more.


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

Ijust read this, the neighbour "may" be able to make a complaint, BUT it sounds like it is a long a drawn out process, this is the rout THEY may take.

Neighbour Noise and Nuisance Problems: What You Can Do
Nuisance and Noise from neighbours is a common source of disturbance and the most
frequent complaints involve:-
 barking dogs
 loud music or TV
 Shouting
 banging doors
 DIY activities
 bonfires
 Remember that no house or flat is totally soundproof and gardens
and garages can be particularly noisy!
Everyone can expect some noise from the people who live around them; you could be
disturbed for any of the following reasons:
 The neighbours are behaving unreasonably (eg playing loud music late at night *or
allowing their dog to bark all day)* The neighbours are behaving normally but sound insulation in your home is not good
enough to cut out the sounds of everyday living
 The sensitivity of people to different types of noise varies (sounds that some enjoy
may annoy others especially if you don't 'get on' with the neighbours!)
So what can you do?
Firstly - if you feel able to do so, approach your neighbour and explain that
you are being troubled by noise.
Often people are unaware that they are causing a problem and most will be
glad to do what they can to reduce noise.
However, approach the matter carefully if you think your neighbour might react angrily to a
complaint
If the problem continues:
 Start a diary recording dates, times and cause of the noise and the effects it has on
you.
 Write to your neighbour, explaining the problem; ask them to stop the noise and
nuisance referring to any conversations you have or any letters you write.
 If your neighbours are tenants, discuss the problem with the landlord; most
Conditions of Tenancy require that tenants do not cause a nuisance to neighbours.
(If they are housing association tenants, the housing association should take action
if a nuisance is being caused but if they are private tenants, you may need to find
out who the landlord is).

Are there alternatives to Legal Action?
Formal legal action should be a last resort - It is unpleasant and will inevitably
sour the relationship between you and your neighbour so it is very important
that you do your best to resolve any problem in a friendly way.
Mediation
A mediation service can help you to resolve noise and neighbour problems. The local
service is provided by West Kent Mediation a member of the Mediation UK and Kent
Mediation groups.
Sound insulation
There are DIY measures that can help solve inadequate sound insulation; advice on
improving sound insulation in homes is available in the leaflet 'Improving Sound Insulation
in your Home' available from the Building Research Establishment
Action by the District Council
If the problem persists, contact the District Council's Environmental Health Department for
advice.
We can take "all reasonable steps" under section 80 of the Environmental Protection Act
1990 (EPA) to investigate your complaint by:
 Writing to the person causing the noise or nuisance saying that a complaint has
been made
 Asking them to take any steps that may be necessary to reduce the noise.
You should be aware that although no mention will be made of the source of the
complaint, the very nature of the complaint may make it obvious who initiated it.
If the noise continues, an EHO will visit at a time when the noise is occurring to see
whether, in their judgement, the noise is a statutory nuisance. It is often necessary for the
Complainant to complete diary sheets. They will consider:
 the type of noise or nuisance
 how loud it is
 how often and
 at what time(s) it occurs
If satisfied that a statutory nuisance exists they must issue a notice requiring the neighbour
to stop causing the nuisance. If that person, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with
the notice, he or she is guilty of an offence and can be prosecuted.
EHOS are recognised experts and their professional judgement is very
important. If they consider that a nuisance is being caused the Courts will
generally accept their view. In some cases, the EHO whilst sympathetic to the
effect the nuisance is having on you, may be unable to say that it represents
a nuisance to the "average" person. A statutory nuisance is defined in the
EPA as "noise emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a
nuisance". The District Council takes noise and nuisance problems very seriously and will
do it's best to help solve the situation.

However if you feel that the District Council is not fulfilling its legal obligations, you can
contact the Council's Complaints Coordinator:
Complaints Co-ordinator
Sevenoaks District Council
FREEPOST SEA 6448
Argyle Road
Sevenoaks
Kent
TN13 1BR
Tel: 01732 227000
E-mail: [email protected]
Taking your own action
When noise or nuisance occur occasionally or at night or it is simply not realizable for an
EHO to witness the problem, they may not feel able to take action behalf of the person who
has made the complaint.
If this happens you can take independent action by complaining directly to the Magistrates
Court under section 82 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. Although a simple
process, some cost is involved and whilst you do not need to employ a solicitor, it is
advisable to obtain legal advice. Further advice on the legal implications is available from
the Community Legal Service Direct leaflet Neighbourhood and Community Disputes .
Before approaching the court it is a good idea to inform (preferably in writing), the person
causing the nuisance saying that unless the nuisance is abated by a certain date (eg two
weeks) you will complain to the Magistrates Court. Keep a note of the date and time you
gave this information and keep copies of all correspondence.
If the source of the problem ignores either the request by you to abate the nuisance,
contact the Justices Clerk's Office at the local Magistrates Court explaining that you wish to
make a complaint under section 82 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
The Clerk of the Court will advise you on procedures, costs, time scales etc as well as
technicalities such as
 how much notice of your intentions you must give to the
person you're complaining about
 The evidence / proof you will need to prove 'beyond
reasonable doubt'
 Although the law says that only one person needs to be affected in practice the
evidence of other witnesses may strengthen your claim.
A date will be set for the hearing and the person you are complaining about will be
summoned to Court. You will be required to explain your problem and produce evidence
(such as your diary sheets) of the disturbance. You will have to give your evidence and
cross examine your witnesses. The neighbour will be able to cross examine you and your
witnesses and may produce their own evidence to contradict yours to prove the case.

As a result the court can:
 make an order saying that the nuisance must be stopped
 choose to fine the person responsible for the nuisance (up to £2000 for an individual,
£20,000 for a business)
 Make you pay some of the expenses the other person had to pay to defend
themselves in court if you lose the case.
If the court makes an order and the person who has been causing the nuisance ignores it,
you will need to take further court action to make them stop.
You may prefer to employ a solicitor to do any of the work for you but there will be a
charge for the service.
Are there alternatives to legal action?
Legal action can be unpleasant and costly and will inevitably sour the relationship between
you and your neighbours (and maybe not just the ones you are in dispute with). It's very
important that you do your best to resolve the problem in a friendly way, leaving legal action
as a last resort. For further information, please contact the District Council at
Environmental Health Department:
Community and Planning Services
Sevenoaks District Council
Argyle Road
Sevenoaks
Kent TN13 1HG
tel: 01732 227000 fax 01732 742339
e mail: [email protected]
You may find the information provided by the following organisations helpful:
Community Legal Services Direct Environmental Protection UK
Tel: 0845 345 4345 44 Grand Parade
Community Legal Advice - free legal advice for residents of England and Wales, paid for by legal aid Brighton
East Sussex BN2 9QA
The Local Government Ombudsman Tel: 01273 878770
PO Box 4771 Fax: 01273 606626
Coventry CV4 0EH Email: [email protected]
Fax: 024 7682 0001
Website: Local Government Ombudsman • Home Building Research Establishment (BRE)
Tel 0300 061 0614 or 0845 602 1983 Garston, Watford
WD25 9XX
Neighbours from Hell in Britain (NFHiB) Tel: 01923 664000
Website: Neighbours From Hell in Britain Website: BRE : Home
Email: [email protected] Email: [email protected]

mo


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## chrisloo (Jan 19, 2009)

leave a tape recorder on in your house, and ask any other neighbour, some people just like to cause trouble, and leave a tv or radio on when you go out too, hope this helps


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

capricorn1980 said:


> He's left with a stuffed kong on days when I don't have any pigs ears, but he finishes the kong biscuits really quickly (he may be going senile but he's still pretty clever!). I've just been reading about frozen kongs which sound like a good idea - has anyone any experience of these??? What works well?


I wonder if maybe he's getting a bit of dementia in his old age, my girl did and she started making more noise when I went out, but I think it was more confusion than anything.

As for frozen Kongs, my younger dog gets 2 frozen Kongs every time I go out, otherwise she eats the house. I have 2 XL red ones, I smear the inside with yoghurt, then a blob of pate, some dry dog food, some more yoghurt, more dog food, another spoon of yoghurt, and then I ram a cheese slice in the bottom hole and freeze them the night before. They are rock solid by morning, and Maddy usually still has a bit left by the time I am home.


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## sally s (Jan 31, 2009)

Sorry about the problems you are having with your neighbours. I work for a local council (wont say which as I will get sacked) but if your Environmental Health Department act as quickly as ours your Mum will definitely have retired by the time they get round to doing anything even remotely dynamic about the situation. Also if your neighbours own their own home they might not be too keen to report you to the Council as they would have to declare their actions if ever they sold their house and it could put people off buying - which would be a shame as you might get a more understanding set of neighbours if they moved out

I would go ahead in trying to get a recording of what your dog is like when you are out and maybe ring the Environmental Health Department yourself, anonymously if you prefer -but remember to withhold the phone number, perhaps even pretending to be a person who is aggrieved about noise nuisance yourself, just to get an idea of what level of interest they seem to have in the situation and what you can expect to happen if the family next door do actually get round to making a formal complaint.

Good luck. Its an awful position to be in when you are doing your best to look after your dog and dont want any trouble with anyone.


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## slicksps (Oct 11, 2009)

From a legal standpoint there is little they can do during the day. If it was all night it would be a different matter. All day and it's a much harder case to fight.

Would you get an ASBO? If you were provoking the dog to bark all day or if they could prove you were doing nothing about it, then possibly. Would they find the time to take it that far? I don't know.

The procedure posted above is good because you can set up counter arguments just in case. Recording the bark and making your own diary of what you are doing to try and identify and remedy it is useful.

Also try and get them to record it too. What would be good is to find out exactly how loud it is from next door. There is a fine line between interpretations of 'loud noise' which could be anything from 'I can hear it over the TV' to 'I can't hear the TV because of it'

Another solution could be to help your neighbours into employment. Sometimes when you're bored at home, you'll find things to do no matter how obscure.


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