# Broken Crucial Ligament-English Springer Spaniel



## lauryn jones (May 17, 2015)

Hello all,

I would really like some help from all of you if that is okay.

I have a springer spaniel called Luigi who is only 3 years old. We went to the vets a couple of weeks ago with him limping and being stiff after he slept and sat down. They gave us anti inflammatory tablets and they did help.

So a couple of weeks after that, he started to limp again and it was like he had aged 10 years. We went back to the vet thinking it may be hip dysplasia but it wasn't as once they had done x-rays they said it was a fractured cruciate ligament.

The vets then said there were two options of surgery, the cheaper one where they put a band in place of the ligament or the more expensive one where they would cut away part of the bone.

Luigi is fine within himself, he is not crying or whining- he just doesn't put any pressure or anything on it. He is happy to play, run around. The hardest thing to do is to get him to rest as all he does is want to be outside playing.

Now, I have read that sometimes these surgeries are not necessary.

If anyone could help us we would be so thankful; nothing like this has happened before so we are just unsure on what to do. 

Thank you in advance.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I know that a lot of people on here have experience of surgery. Personally I would not rush into it, but do try and rest him, he should not be running around. By the way it is CRUCIATE ligament. Did the vet say if it was a total rupture and whether it could repair with rest rather than surgery. I had a 10 year old dog with a cruciate injury and it never caused any serious problems and surgery was never mentioned but others will need surgery. If you are finding it difficult to keep him quiet then you will not cope with surgery as they really do have to keep still for a few weeks.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Sorry to hear this - I know some people who've had success with rest / very slow reintroduction of exercise - however, these have mainly been in older dogs where surgery is maybe not the best option.

In a young dog - and especially one as active as a ESS I'm not sure that this would work long term and do think he'd run the risk of just doing it again.

The surgery is fairly common these days with excellent results. 

Quite a few people on here have had their dogs have it so sure others will be along with advice shortly.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I tried conservative management and unless your dog is very small I wouldn't advise it. In our case it just prolonged the restrictions and created arthritic changes 

There are more than two options. So I've got to go out but have a read of this 
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/cruciate-operation-diary.93861/

With a young dog I wouldn't go for the same as Alfie had


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## lauryn jones (May 17, 2015)

Apologies, I did mean Cruciate ligament, my head is fried at the moment with everything that is going on.

Thank you all so much for your replies. I shall definitely have a read of your post Rona.

Luigi is a very active dog, but he is also happy to just relax and have cuddles. He isn't yelping in pain, the vet said it was fractured and he said it would only get worse and that surgery will be needed most definitely in a years time. He obviously offered the best advice was the more expensive £2500 surgery.

We are able to keep him quiet and rested; he would obvsiously just prefer to be outside and running round. He is easily excitable and just enjoys his exercise. We haven't took him for long walks since we first went to the vets as he is been on bed rest.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

lauryn jones said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I would really like some help from all of you if that is okay.
> 
> ...


Hi Lauryn

Sorry to hear about Luigi. I know how scary the prospect of going through this with an active dog is, however, I assure you it's not as bad as you think and the results are almost always excellent.

My pointer Bo had one of the bone cutting surgeries when she ruptured her cruciate ligament in July last year. There are two bone cutting surgeries, the TPLO and the TAA, both of which are very similar but with minor differences. Which one(s) you are offered will depend on which your orthopaedic surgeon prefers - personally mine only offered the TPLO, so that is what we went with.

Generally the synthetic ligament replacement surgery isn't offered as much these days, especially for active dogs as there is risk of re-injuring it is too high. The recovery is also longer whereas with the TPLO, the dog can usually weight bare on the operated limb almost straight away. In fact the confidence level with this surgery is so high it can be performed bilaterally, so dogs with both cruciates effected can have both done at the same time. It took a couple of days for my girl to start putting weight on the leg, but by week 3, she was walking with no sign of a limp which is pretty incredible!

Conservative management, where you leave the dog without surgical intervention, almost never works. For an active dog like a Springer, I don't think it would be possible for the joint to form enough scar tissue to stabilize the knee. They are just too active. For an elderly small breed you might be able to get away with it, but certainly not for this type of dog I'm afraid.

So as you might gather, my opinion would be to press forward with the TPLO/TTA, whichever your vet offers, ASAP. If you want any help on post surgical management, there are several of us who have been through it with our dogs on here (several of whom where very helpful when I went through it last year!!), who would be happy to help. I was dreading it but actually as I had prepared well before hand, it was absolutely fine. I spent lots of time sitting outside in the garden with Bo chilling as she had in done in August and time flew by!


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## lauryn jones (May 17, 2015)

Thank you so much for your help labradrk. Reading that helped me understand everything a lot better. 

It's so hard at the moment, we have our insurance but it doesn't cover us for a lot, so we will need to pay towards it. Which means our house deposit goes down. Life is hard sometimes; but we will do anything to help our baby dog, Luigi. 

I am sure the TPLO is the surgery offered to us. Is there anyway you can knock down the price of these surgeries? As I sure as hell know they are making a lot of money from guys like us who love our pets unconditionally. Or is there any way the insurance company will let us pay more to increase our limit? 

Thank you once again.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

lauryn jones said:


> Thank you so much for your help labradrk. Reading that helped me understand everything a lot better.
> 
> It's so hard at the moment, we have our insurance but it doesn't cover us for a lot, so we will need to pay towards it. Which means our house deposit goes down. Life is hard sometimes; but we will do anything to help our baby dog, Luigi.
> 
> ...


Hi, unfortunately there is no way of cutting the price down. £2500 is actually an excellent price for the procedure - my dogs cost £3800 and that was just the surgery. Everything else including x-rays before and after was an added extra.

Remember that it is a specialized surgery that can only be performed by an orthopaedic surgeon, so you are paying for their expertise. You are also paying for sole use of the operating theatre for several hours, the anaesthetic, the implants used to put into the leg, the consumables used during the op, the nurse to monitor your pet before and after etc. I can assure you that the same amount of effort goes into one of these surgeries as it would be for the human equivalent of the surgery, so it's definitely not a case of 'making a lot of money'. It's expensive stuff but it is what it is 

Your insurance won't increase your limit now I'm afraid.


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## lauryn jones (May 17, 2015)

Thank you so much for replying, you have been of such great help to us.

That's absolutely fine, he is worth every penny.

I just have a couple more questions if you so not mind? As you can tell we have never had to do anything like this before. 

Can you ask for the X-rays from the vets? 

Will the insurance company cover us for only being with them for 5/6months?

And do you think there are any questions we need to ask before we book Luigi in for the surgery? Or anything we need for him? 

We have just been and bought him an orthopaedic bed. 

My husband and I are very appreciative of your advice and help. 

Thank you labradrk. I am sorry I do not know your name.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I can't say any more than the others. Forewarned is of definite benefit though. I hadn't found any pictures of the operation when Alfie had his, and it was quite a shock to see him afterwards.

The first week is very hard due to the pain and struggles your dog has. The next couple are hard because you are trying to keep them still, the following stages of recovery are worrying because they want to go go go and you can't afford to let them. 16 weeks later it's more or less all forgotten and you can start enjoying really building up those walks together


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I've been through TPLO surgery with two dogs now. My last rottie Mabel ruptured hers a few days after coming to us from rescue which was a nightmare as she hated vets and being handled but we got through it. She then did the other leg 18 months later (not uncommon) so we went through it twice with her. My current rottie Indie had to have both of hers done at the same time when she was just over a year old which we expected to be traumatic but she actually sailed through and took it all in her stride despite us having two other active dogs (pointers) that she had to be kept separated from. 

In answer to some of your questions when your own vet sends the referral to the specialist they usually send the x-rays too (these are usually digital these days) although most specialist do their own set anyway as they make certain measurements from them to decide exactly where to cut/rotate the bone to achieve the best angle before inserting the plate. Most specialists will explain everything to you including the post op management that they prefer (they all vary a little bit). For instance some insist on crate or pen rest, some prefer them to be restricted to one room. Some allow short (5-10 min) lead walks fairly soon but most ask you to wait until 3 weeks post op. It depends on whether they do the TPLO or TTA - the TTA is usually slightly less restrictive. You will have to keep him off furniture and no stairs/jumping/running. 

What sore of insurance do you have? as long as its more than 14 (or possibly 28 with some companies) after you took the policy out they will cover you. Hopefully you have a lifetime cover policy and not one that only pays for one year or sets a maximum per condition. 

I know of several people who have tried conservative management of their dogs (6 months of fairly strict rest) and still ended up going for surgery in the end personally I wouldn't take the risk unless the dog was elderly and not up to this type of surgery but everyone has a different opinion on that. 

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

lauryn jones said:


> Thank you so much for replying, you have been of such great help to us.
> 
> That's absolutely fine, he is worth every penny.
> 
> ...


As mentioned above, the best thing to do now is to go ahead via your regular vet and book the consultation with the orthopaedic vet. Your regular vet should be arranging this for you. Whereabouts in the country are you? unless you are registered with a big referrals practice, you will probably have two options; you'll either be sent to a specialist practice where the op will be done, or there are now some mobile orthopods who travel to your practice. Basically they will perform the operation at your regular vet practice, bringing all the necessary equipment for the procedure with them. The former is more common and may be practical if you live relatively close by, but personally we did the latter, which was nice as I knew my dog was dealt with by familiar people and surroundings. However, your vet should be discussing options with you 

As I recall, the main things I purchased were: an orthopaedic mattress (without sides preferably so they have room to stretch), a big order of chews to keep her occupied and a long line for in the garden. I also put a few large anti slip mats down in the kitchen, which you should probably think about if you have hard wood/lino floors; the rest of our house is carpeted so slipping wasn't much of a problem. Oh, and stair gates; I bought an extra one to put across my bedroom door as she slept in my room at night after the op (actually she never left, nearly one year later LOL!). Beyond that I can't think of anything special.

Does he pull on the lead? this was actually the main stumbling block for us - my dog isn't great on the lead, but they can't be pulling and lunging at things when they are recovering, at least for the first 6 weeks or so. Trying to keep her calm on walks was a bit tedious at first, but when she realised that all she was going to get was 10 minutes around the block she wasn't too bad.....unless we saw a dreaded cat. So if your dog isn't great, it might be worth investing in a decent harness to keep him steady and stable for those initial 6 weeks while the bone is still healing. After the 6 weeks x-rays if all is well, you can lighten up a bit, and at that point typically you get the green light to start slowly increasing exercise. I think for us, our walks were increased by 5 minutes every 2 weeks.

The problem with cruciates is that this condition occurs bilaterally roughly 50% of the time. That means that there is a 50% chance the other leg could go at some point. I suspect your ortho vet will discuss this with you at your consultation. Hopefully it won't ever come to that (believe me, I'm hoping that for my girl, too!) but its something to be aware of for the future, particularly if you don't have lifetime insurance cover. I'm lucky that I do have lifetime insurance, meaning in the hopefully unlikely event my dog does her other leg, she'll be covered for it. But if you have a per condition insurance for your dog, you won't be covered if it happens again. If that is the case, then I'll go ahead and suggest starting a savings account for him just in case.


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## lauryn jones (May 17, 2015)

Thanks guys.

We had another appointment with the vets and we understand everything fully now.

We are torn though on what surgery to go for, so if you all have any pros and cons of each surgery that would be great.

Luigi is a very active dog so we have to take into consideration his aftercare knowing he is a highly sprung and active dog. We are based in Pershore and the surgery will cost about £2200. Insurance wise we should be covered for most of that, but we will definitely have to start a savings account for luigi.

Thank you for all your help.


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