# Fish chosing



## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

Hi. My aunt just gave me her 200l fish tankwith some sand. I will boil the sand (to sterelize it) and clean the tank, Ive already ordered all the material. Im a beginner to fishkeeping, so I need some to chose the fish. I really dont like cyclhids and angels fish, but excluding those I like all of them. Please help me


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Hi Daniel,
Good to see someone researching before buying  And what a lovely sized tank for a first setup!
Do you know if your water is hard or soft? (Your water company's website should give you an idea.) A good place to start is to look at fish that are best suited to your water type, as these are the ones most likely to thrive.
Also, do you know about fishless cycling with ammonia? This is the best way to prevent fish deaths and other problems in a new setup. It takes a few weeks to complete but is totally worth the patience required, as it saves so much stress further down the line! This link explains more: https://www.tropicalfishforums.co.u...ml?PHPSESSID=b47d6fa84e982cda48b955dd5b610fd7


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

Thank you about the info. The water is soft. And about the ph? I heard that is important. Can you give some species?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Hi Daniel,

pH is less important than hardness, but as a general rule, fish that like soft water like low pH, and fish that like hard water like higher pH.

I assume you're aiming for a community tank with a good mixture of different species? It's good to have fish that occupy different levels of the tank, i.e. top, middle and bottom. Here's a few suggestions of some 'easy', peaceful fish for each level (though this is by no means an exhaustive list):

Top: pearl gourami, dwarf gourami, sparkling gourami, honey gourami, lemon tetra, black neon tetra, harlequin rasbora

Middle: neon tetra, cardinal tetra, rummy-nose tetra, glowlight tetra, black phantom tetra, cherry barb

Bottom: any type of cory, bristlenose pleco, dwarf chain loach, kuhli loach

Apart from gouramis and plecos, most of these fish need to be kept in groups of 6+. I'd recommend getting 1-2 species for each level.

Aqadvisor.com is a great site for checking stocking levels and compatibility.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

The first thing to do is get a good liquid water test kit if you haven't like the api master test kit. Also you will need water conditioner and a filter. Your tank is the same size as mine and is a lovely size for a nice community.

I suggest once you have installed the tank, aquascaped it and added the water and the heater you can start doing a fish less cycle. The link Naomi has given talks you through it but please give us a shout if you need advice. Make sure you buy pure ammonia. Most large DIY stores sell it. If you like spreadsheets keep a record of you ammonia nitrite and nitrate readings each day. Alternatively a fish keeping note book is good.

Like you found, a lot of advice out there is unsuitable. Please ignore those (including some well known pet chains) that say add water wait a week and add the fish. This is outdated advice from the days when water companies added chlorine which evaporated off in a week and used under gravel filters and expected fish to die in a few weeks. Luckily things are more enlightened. Firstly the water companies add Chloramine which is stable and can only be removed by a dechlorinator designed for the job. It removes the chlorine and your filter bacteria remove the ammonia. Seachem prime removes both.

OK now that you have your tank cycling nicely and you are healthily skeptical about the advice out there spend your next 4 weeks or so of the fish less cycle deciding on your fish.

As NaomiM says getting fish for the various layers for interest is a good idea. A feature fish like a cichlid or gourami is also nice.

Sand is a great substrate, many fish love it as do plants. Depending on your lighting set up your choice of plants may be more limited or extensive. I suggest you start with some nice easy low to moderate light lovers like crypts, Java ferns, Vallis, ludwigia, hygrophyla and bacopa are all relatively easy.

So to the fish. You can tell were they like swimming pretty much from the position of their mouths pointing upwards are top swimmers, to the front and downwards pointers like the bottom

Many fish for sale at decent local fish shops (LFS) are acclimatised to the local water. I like maidenhead aquatics as a chain. They tend to have very knowledgeable staff and can point out which species do well in your water.

Once you know the pH and hardness of your water go and have a look in one of the shops. Take a note book or a smart phone and make notes of everything you like that is suitable and what it likes and doesn't like and where abouts in the tank it lives and if it is territorial or needs to be in groups.

Armed with your nice long wish list start researching each fish ( see how waiting for the filter to cycle will go by in a flash  ). What is attracting you ? Colours behaviours personalities and what size. Large shoals and only a few different species or smaller numbers no more variety.

Things to think about are size. Angel fish will grow up and eat their tiny tank mates or more certainly any new tiny tank mates. Fin nippers like tiger barbs might enjoy a munch on long finned fish. Some fish are intolerant of other fish that are the same colours or body shape.

Breeding. Some fish change personality when breeding. Cichlids are fish with definite personalities and come in a wide range and are often great colorful feature fish. Angel fish and kribensis are both examples and dwarf cichlid s are also nice fish too. If you have a pair ( and a pair is best to prevent fighting) then courtship and breeding can have them guarding their space from all comers. Rarely do the other fish come to harm but you may find 2/3 tank has 2 fish and 1/3 has all the rest for a while. Live bearers like guppies and platies are the rabbits of the fish world and will breed extensively. You will soon be over run. Also all females store sperm so are likely to be pregnant when bought especially if kept with males in the LFS.

So what to choose. If your water is moderately soft and a near neutral pH then you have a pretty wide range to chose from. Avoid mollies and any other fish that tolerates or likes brackish water.

Also be aware of the eventual size the fish grow to. Most fish are babies when purchased.

Some suggestions based on my own past residents are:
Small fish set up large shoals and a few species: a nice big shoal of cardinals or neons. Guppies and corydorus at the bottom. Feature fish could be a pair of honey gouramies.

Medium mixed species: cherry barbs, some of the more peaceful tetra species or Harlequin rasboras or perhaps some of the Danio species like the kyathit or zebra or leopard or white cloud minnows. Again corydorus or some bristle nose catfish of some khuli loaches are all good bottom fish.

Feature fish could be a pair of kribensis or larger gouramies or some apistogamma cacatuoides cichlids.
On the larger side how about a pair of angelfish, some golden barbs and some pentazona barbs. Most tetras are too nippy with angel fish though I have always had few troubles with a group of 6 red eye tetra or black widows.

My current tank occupants are khuli loaches, a large number of Kribs as they keep breeding and I am trying g to rehome them golden barbs who have always been peaceful and some geriatric zebra danios. The tank needs a revamp fishwise once I have sold on all the babies.

Hope this has given you food for thought and I echo Naomi s comment of well done for doing your research first. Beware the hobby is addictive and you will soon have multiple tanks


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

Thank you for the information. Can all those species live together? And all of them eat the same food? Do i need any extra material for the plants?


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Plants - the plants I listed are easy to grow and don't need anything fancy though you will need some lights which produce light spectrum needed for plants. Depending on what light system you have that might be some appropriate bulbs. Apart from that some plant feed tablets you pop in the sand at the base of their roots do the job. Sometimes some liquid fertiliser in the water for aquarium plants also though I tend not to bother with this as I find the with fish in the tank there is enough nutrients in the water column.

When you buy the plants remove any floss from round the roots and bury them in the sand. Tall growing ones to the back and side and medium the short tow the front with nice free swimming open spaces.

Re the fish - all the fish I listed won't necessarily work together. The fish for each type of tank IE small large should be OK as one community, smaller medium fish, and large fish communities will work OK as I have had these respective combinations but they may not work mixed across types. Eg angel fish will eat neons.

I suggest you pop to a decent LFS eg a maidenhead aquatics or if you let us know roughly where you are we can recommend other good independents. Go to their community fish section and make a note of every thing you like then come back here and list your wish list fish and we can tell you what goes with what.

It's hard to recommend fish without knowing what kind if things you like. There are the standard bread and butter community fish (most of these type of fish are common in places like pets at home) but there are a whole range of other species which are easy to keep and a little different which you may prefer eg danios rasboras etc.

Generally most fish that are suitable for a community aquarium will be happy on a good quality flake/crisp type food or pellets. Depending on whether they are top bottom or middle feeders they may prefer different food preparations. Fish like plecos eg bristle nose ancistris also need some bog wood on the tank as they need the lignin the the wood also.

Most enjoy some live food on occasion and it's fun to see the fish chase around after it but their day to day food can be prepared food.

Below is a pic of my tank currently. I tend to like the overgrown weedy look though this might not be your thing. Plant wise I have Vallis (the trailing stuff), cryptocorynes (crypts - the plants at the bottom), Java moss growing on the bottom right in a big clump and also some hygrophila (not visible). Fish wise there are golden barbs, kribensis, leopard danios and khuli loaches. Once I have sold on the excess Krib babies I will be getting some more corydorus and probably some tetras (not sure what species but likely some red eyed tetras, lemon tetras or something of that sort). I am sort of between communities at the moment and the barbs are getting a little old (7 years).

Prior to the Kribs I had a pair of angels for 13 years.

My first ever set up consisted of peppered corydorus, red eyed tetras neons and a pair of dwarf gouramies. The cories and red eyes both lived till about 14 years.


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

Thanks for the help. I live in Portugal, so its hard for uou to recommend some store. I want small to medium fish ( max 15cm), lots of color, a few bottom dewlers (except plecos). I really like fish like oscar (unfortunately they are to big), any kind of tetras, guppies and gouramies (specially dwarf gouramy). Im also keen on swordtails, neons, ramirezi and killiefish. Can you please make any sugestion with fish combos?


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Male dwarf gourami / or a pair of honey gouramies or pearl gourami (they look great once settled in)

Male and female ram

10 neons or cardinals

4 /5 corydorus

6 lemon tetras Hyphessobrycon pulchripinnis (brighten up slot once settled and mature) or Rosie tetras or perhaps ornate tetras (hyphessobrycon bentosi) the later have great interaction between the males holding the white tipped Dorsey fins straight up and are fun to watch. The other tetras are good too.

Killies are more tricky. Golden wonder panchax will eat neons and some other species are either too timid for communities or have their own needs. I would stay clear as first fish but perhaps look at them in future as an option after lots of research and depending g on the characters of your individual fish you have.

Sword tails are lovely fish but they do grow pretty big and in mixed groups breed like rabbits. If you do want swordtails then you might want to Re think some of your other fish

Guppies are also an option but they are slow swimmers and with their float tails may be at risk of being nipped by the dwarf gourami, lemon/Rosie/ornate tetras.or rams. If you go with guppies then go for the lace or honey gouramies and skip the tetras (neons/cardinals are OK).


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Just to add to kittih's info, guppies and swordtails tend to do better in hard water.


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

Thank very much. And what about rasboras? I really like the galaxy ones


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

And is a pair of pearl fouramis or its obly one? Sorry, not an english native speaker


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

And rummy nose tetras?


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

My tank is actually 240l instead of 200l.Sorry for the mistake


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Daniel1331 said:


> Thank very much. And what about rasboras? I really like the galaxy ones


They are tiny and would be nice snacks for your gouramies and rams.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Daniel1331 said:


> And rummy nose tetras?


Yes's they are good too. I didn't suggest them because with the neons/ cardinals you already have some red in your colours but they are nice community fish.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Daniel1331 said:


> And is a pair of pearl fouramis or its obly one? Sorry, not an english native speaker


Yes a pair is fine. The females tend not to be so pretty.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Daniel1331 said:


> My tank is actually 240l instead of 200l.Sorry for the mistake


You can add another shoal of something then 

Look at this website for a rough stocking guide but always aim for a bit under the suggested limits. Especially if your fish will breed.

http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/article/stocking-levels-for-tropical-aquarium-fish


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

Can i add a few shrimp to the tank?


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

The small shrimp like cherries will be eaten. Larger shrimp like Amanos don't to well in soft water so depending on your water I would suggest not to. They need a high pH. In acid conditions it will damage their exoskeleton


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

Ok, thank you for the info


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

Can i add a dwarf puffer fish


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

? Please answer... thanks


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Not together with the other fish you wanted. They cannot compete. You could set up a separate species tank for them.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Please be aware that when kribs breed, which they most def will do, the adults can become very territorial and protective of the fry
They are damned by their ease of adaptation, acclimation, breeding, and colouration, to community tanks, but really should be kept the same as other cichlids


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

mrs phas said:


> Please be aware that when kribs breed, which they most def will do, the adults can become very territorial and protective of the fry
> They are damned by their ease of adaptation, acclimation, breeding, and colouration, to community tanks, but really should be kept the same as other cichlids


Agree.

My Kribs luckily seem to thrive in my community tank but mine is heavily planted and very large so the other fish have a lot of room to move away to.


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## Daniel1331 (Aug 10, 2018)

Wath about apistogramnas instead of rams? I heard that the apistogramnas are pacific


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

My understanding is if you establish cherry shrimp prior to the fish in a heavily planted tank they will be fine. 

Some people manage a dwarf puffer in a community tank but generally, their personalities aren't suitable for community tanks

Re choosing fish I would say pick which fish you want most then work on what fish will go well with that species. There are some good videos on centrepiece fish choices.

I personally prefer lots of tetras. My own tank is Cardinal tetra's, neon tetras and black neons with a lovely Siamese fighting fish and the bain of my life but the fish with the best personalities Mollys. I get a lot of pleasure from my ornamental snails I really love watching them I have black Malaysian Trumpet snails, red spotted nerites and orange rabbit snails.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

My advice though if you are new to fish keeping is to pick one nice easy fish and start with those perhaps a school of 6-8 neon tetras or black neons both are pretty hardy and will go with most other fish. You can't buy 15 or 20 fish and add them straight to a tank even if it's cycled. The bioload has to be gradually built up.

Alternatively, add plants get them nicely established then think about fish.

Join local fish keeping Facebook groups and take a look at the YouTube aquascapers for ideas. I think you might find Aquapros channel gives you some fun ideas. Try looking at his desert tank ad the Avatar tank


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

For we europeans, George Farmer has some nice ideas


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Another nice British fish YouTuber Aquarium adventures






A nice shrimp set up here

Or dwarf neon rainbow fish which are my next want


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## Nadz1675 (Apr 19, 2018)

Clown Fish
Blennies
Pajama Cardinals
Banggai Cardinal
Fire Fish
Clown Goby's
Neon Goby's
Royal Gramma


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2018)

Nadz1675 said:


> Clown Fish
> Blennies
> Pajama Cardinals
> Banggai Cardinal
> ...


Clown fish while nice are marine fish so a no go.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

danielled said:


> Clown fish while nice are marine fish so a no go.


Good point. All the fish @Nadz1675 listed are marine fish. The OP didn't specify whether or not they wanted marine fish though the fish they didn't want were Tropicals so I am guessing they were looking for those. 

How's the selection going OP ? Did you decide on which fish to get. I have just been repopulating my tank again so can share ideas if you like.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2018)

kittih said:


> Good point. All the fish @Nadz1675 listed are marine fish. The OP didn't specify whether or not they wanted marine fish though the fish they didn't want were Tropicals so I am guessing they were looking for those.
> 
> How's the selection going OP ? Did you decide on which fish to get. I have just been repopulating my tank again so can share ideas if you like.


Quite possible.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

kittih said:


> I have just been repopulating my tank again so can share ideas if you like.


What fish have you gone for, @kittih ?


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

NaomiM said:


> What fish have you gone for, @kittih ?


I am still changing my mind a lot.  My tank is 4 foot (200 litres) like to the OPs. I have two large external filters on it. I've just put in most of the planting...










Ignore the big green filter at the front.  I am temporarily using it to pick up excess suspended debris from putting the plants in.

In the past I have gone for larger fish (about 3 inches) but have decided this time to go for small fish but in biggish shoals as a bit of an experiment. I have some elderly golden barbs and a sole Danio in there currently so am having to work around them plus a last few Krib youngsters who will get sold once big enough.

New purchases are a shoal of rummy nose and some sterbai cories so far. I was then going to go with a nice shoal of neons if I can find some decent ones. I also really want endlers but dithering between a male only group or mixed.

Finally I was looking at a small shoal of Danio Choprai and a pair of honey gouramies but may change my mind.

One the golden barbs, Kribs and leopard danio have moved on I shall also get some shrimps. Depending on how dense the planting gets I might risk cherry shrimp, other wise I will go for amanos.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

kittih said:


> I am still changing my mind a lot.  My tank is 4 foot (200 litres) like to the OPs. I have two large external filters on it. I've just put in most of the planting...
> 
> View attachment 369574
> 
> ...


Nice 
Both my tanks are looking a bit empty at the moment, but I'm waiting till I have a bit more time to spend on them before restocking. They both could do with a rescape too - one's overgrown with moss while the other is looking rather bare plant-wise!


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

NaomiM said:


> Nice
> Both my tanks are looking a bit empty at the moment, but I'm waiting till I have a bit more time to spend on them before restocking. They both could do with a rescape too - one's overgrown with moss while the other is looking rather bare plant-wise!


Mine had been pretty neglected. The fish loved it's overgrown jungle state. the Kribs were breeding like rabbits and it was basically Kribs and Vallis 
It's taken about a month to strip it back, Re plant it, rehome the Kribs and get some new fish in. I always find this bit really fun. Though I always forget what a worry it is watching the new fish settle in and hope they do OK. Luckily fingers crossed these seem to be doing fine. Though the rummy noses seem to be not impressed with their diet. 

I know what you mean about the time it takes. I guess as long as the occupants are happy that's all that matters


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

What fish have you had in yours @NaomiM ? I am after some ideas


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Rummy-nose are lovely, I wish I had the right water for them. Sterbais are nice too, but the only corys I've had any success with are bronzes. For my trop tank, I'm probably going to go for some galaxy rasboras and some cherry shrimp. The temp tank is trickier as most fish I've tried in there have been outcompeted by the odessa barbs, who are feisty little so-and-sos!

My trop tank atm is down to just espei rasboras and bronze corys. My last elderly platy went some time ago, and my neons were wiped out by some nasty fungal thing that seemed only to affect neons and didn't respond much to meds. Other previous occupants have included endlers and guppies.

My temp tank consists of gold and odessa barbs. I've had peppered corys, a bulldog plec, WCMMs and Florida flagfish, but none have done too well and I think the oddesas are to blame!


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