# So breeding hmmm that's the question?



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I have two neutered male Siamese, who I show, I have just been adopted by two new Blue Siamese who will also be shown, the male is non active, the female is on the active register, as I had shown an interest in maybe breeding, I am great friends with the Breeder of my cats 

So this is the thing, I'm really not sure why I want to breed, guess that should just stop me in my tracks and get the baby spayed really shouldn't it.

I know breeding is hard work, I know it will cost me a lot of money if things don't go as planned, I know I won't make money out of it ( not that it would be a reason for me to breed). I KNOW I would be heart broken if something happened to Mum or the kittens, I fear I would not like anyone that came to see the kittens with a view to being able to rehome one and I'd end up keeping them all.

So for all those that do breed why did you start breeding, and is it really worth all the heartache, cost etc?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I got into it as I wanted to have cute kittens. That was right at the beginning when I was naive. Now I do it for the betterment of the breed etc. I question myself with ever litter as to why I continue. Having kittens running all over the house at 13 weeks is actually blooming hard work. But watching the joy they bring to others is wonderful.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I started breeding because I have had Siamese in my life for a good portion of it and for a few years before I got Mai Tai it was always something at the back of my mind. Mai Tai's breeder, after talking to her for hours , suggested that I could have her on the active register if I wanted 
I breed Siamese because I love them and I want to share that love of them with as many people out there as I can. I love having kittens - who wouldn't  - but I also love the happiness those kittens then bring to others.
I am in the fortunate position of being retired and can devote my time to my cats without having to take days off work to visit the stud or while they have their kittens - I have to sit with them throughout and usually the day before too  I have had still births and cried. I have cried as my younger girl, Rosie, struggled to deliver a breech kitten in her first litter and cried when she took so long in labour this time (she is being spayed when her present kitten is older) But her first kittens (two of them) are so adored by their new slave, I couldn't wish for a better home for them and from speaking to the slave to her present baby, I know he will be adored too - that's what makes it all worth while.
Because, for many reasons, I cannot keep Rosie once she retires from breeding I am heartbroken but I have potentially found the perfect home for her so that will help to ease the pain. If anything was to happen to any of them I would be devastated, I know, having had the pain of losing cats to roads in the past. 
I have only been breeding for the past four years and still have so much to learn - the owner of the stud I use, who is also my little Pasha's breeder, has been such a wonderful mentor. Mai Tai and Rosie's breeders are both so helpful and ready to answer any questions. To have that sort of backing is so necessary I think.
Of course it's hard work, of course it's tiring and a worry for the health of cats and kittens and whether the homes are out there for them but it is still a very rewarding (emotionally if not financially ) experience.
Sorry, to ramble when Spid, as always, puts it far more succinctly


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I have two neutered male Siamese, who I show, I have just been adopted by two new Blue Siamese who will also be shown, the male is non active, the female is on the active register, as I had shown an interest in maybe breeding, I am great friends with the Breeder of my cats
> 
> So this is the thing, I'm really not sure why I want to breed, guess that should just stop me in my tracks and get the baby spayed really shouldn't it.
> 
> ...


Based on what you have said above, I can't think of any good reason why you would start breeding cats. Leave it to those that are passionate/knowledgeable/improving the breed, etc. There are so many cats seeking homes already.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ramble away lol I also want to share the Siamese breed, I think everyone should have one, and they don't know what they are missing if they don't lol We have very few good breeders in ALL of Ireland, and I'd like to share the Meezer love. If I did breed, I would wait for Issy to be at least two, I would also like to see how she does in shows, because I personally think that I shouldn't breed, if she is not a good example of the breed ( that said, my boys are TOTALLY different looking and each judge has very different ideas on whats a good example of the Siamese breed, some like Sebby more than Benny, and visa versa!!! ) I have a great relationship with my lots breeder and I know they would be there for support and advise.. I guess I won't know if I really want to do it, until the time comes :rolleyes5: but it is great hearing other peoples reasons and experiences so thank you


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> Based on what you have said above, I can't think of any good reason why you would start breeding cats. Leave it to those that are passionate/knowledgeable/improving the breed, etc. There are so many cats seeking homes already.


Thank you, if you read my post above Lurcherlad, I have said that I wouldn't breed unless Issy was consider a good example of the breed, and if I did decide to breed, I would seek help and guidance from knowledgeable people, as we all have to start somewhere. Hence asking advise from those passionate/knowledgeable/improving the breed etc people.

Also I have always been involved in rescue, and fostering cats for a life time before I got my Siamese.

Thank you for your input though.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Meezy, 2 is quite late to leave a female cat without breeding. My 5 month old girl has already had her first call and to leave her calling for too long before breeding risks the chance of pyometra. Around 12 months is the average age for a first mating, generally after their third call. But with early callers you have to balance the risks of breeding them too young against the risk of pyometra. Rosie was an early caller too and we decided to mate her on the fifth call - she was 10 months old

rrr:rrr: Spid  love you really


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Ah, now there is a problem. Carts aren't like dogs and you can't put off breeding her until she is two without putting her life at risk. Cats once they start calling - on average about 9 months - call every 3 weeks for a week at a time. If they aren't mated up they a) lose a lot of condition b) can develop toileting problems in a desperate attempt to attract a male and c) (most importantly) can develop a very serious, potentially fatal condition called pyometra. A cats doesn't shed it's womb lining after each call, and without mating this builds up and can go manky, basically filling the womb with pus and this can cause the womb to rupture and the cat to die.

This time you beat me to it Lynn!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ah ha seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee you learn something new every day  thank you guys.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Thank you, if you read my post above Lurcherlad, I have said that I wouldn't breed unless Issy was consider a good example of the breed, and if I did decide to breed, I would seek help and guidance from knowledgeable people, as we all have to start somewhere. Hence asking advise from those passionate/knowledgeable/improving the breed etc people.
> 
> Also I have always been involved in rescue, and fostering cats for a life time before I got my Siamese.
> 
> Thank you for your input though.


I did read your post, that was what I based my response on. Particularly your second paragraph.

I would expect any new breeder to look to others for advice.

Good luck with whatever you decide


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> I did read your post, that was what I based my response on. Particularly your second paragraph.
> 
> I would expect any new breeder to look to others for advice.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide


Thank you


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I would hope you wouldn't get sold a girl on the active unless she's good enough to breed from... That doesn't necessarily mean she's a top show cat, but she should conform to the SoP and not have any major faults. She should of course be healthy.

And the breeder who sold her to you should be a great source of advice.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

She has no major faults  and does conform to SoP.

Thank you


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I would just like to know how you managed to get two blue show quality siamese. They are very rare ones with type!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I didn't  I got to Blue Siamese I plan to show  Although their father is Blue and doing well in shows over here. So I'm hoping the kittens will do well, not that it matters to me either way, they are my babies first and foremost, showing is a bit of fun, I can take it or leave it


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

We had a cat with Pyometra at the SAA- she was 2 years old and unspayed. She was brought in as her owner couldn't handle her anymore. She lived in a small bedroom and had clearly been left to call and call and call...

When she was spayed, the vet said she was lucky to be alive. Had she been left any longer, she would have died :nonod: Definitely something to keep in mind!

After weighing up risks, costs and benefits, if the pros outweigh the cons I'd say it'd be worth a try, as long as you can afford to do it ethically. Doing your research shows that you'll strive to be as good a breeder as possible fom the outset


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I thought you had said you have got two blue pt siamese? Is the dad being shown in england?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

As I said it's something I have thought about, I may not ever do it!! I want to hear other peoples experiences also so I could decide  thank you to all who have responded  I appreciate it


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Biawhiska said:


> I thought you had said you have got two blue pt siamese? Is the dad being shown in england?


I do, their Dad is Currently being shown in Northern Ireland/Ireland.

I did say I would be showing the kittens.

They may not do well in shows *shrugs* I've found each judge tends to have a different thought on what "type" is


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

To be honest if you are already passionate about the breed then I think you're more than halfway to being a great breeder. The attitude I don't understand is when someone says they want to breed cats but aren't sure which breed to go for.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

havoc said:


> To be honest if you are already passionate about the breed then I think you're more than halfway to being a great breeder. The attitude I don't understand is when someone says they want to breed cats but aren't sure which breed to go for.


Thank you havoc, Siamese have been a life long passion, and I waited most of my life to become a slave to a Siamese or two or four  I have always had rescue cats, I utterly love the breed :001_wub:


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

If you love a breed then you know what you love about it. You know the character traits, the quirks. The vast majority of kittens are sold as pets and you know how to talk to pet buyers. You know the people who want one for all the right reasons and you know when the enquiry is from someone who thinks they want one but would never cope and needs a quieter breed. It does take a certain amount of detachment to pick the right girl to keep for breeding - that's the head decision but a great breeder also has a big heart.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I started out showing neuters for several years and never planned to breed, having made friends with my breeder she would ask from time to time and I always declined 

I gave it a lot of thought, and being so passionate about the breed, having my breeders support (& stud services), plus other friends made through showing I felt comfortable I had enough support and knowledge around me.

Starting with one girl is a great way to go, rather than jumping in with multiple queens and your own stud.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Meezey said:


> I do, their Dad is Currently being shown in Northern Ireland/Ireland.
> 
> I did say I would be showing the kittens.
> 
> They may not do well in shows *shrugs* I've found each judge tends to have a different thought on what "type" is


Oh right. was just trying to think of a blue stud doing well at the moment and couldnt think of any. that explains why!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Biawhiska said:


> Oh right. was just trying to think of a blue stud doing well at the moment and couldnt think of any. that explains why!


If they do well then they do well  If they don't they don't  I enjoy showing if my cats enjoy it, but don't plan to traipse them all over the UK & Ire for shows, as long as they are good examples of the breed and of "type" but not to the extreme of some of the Siamese, they are fit, healthy, happy with good temps, and no major fault and do well in shows here I'm happy  As I always say with the boys I have now I know at the end of the day I ALWAYS bring the best cats home from a show, it will be the same with the Blue babies


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

You say you would like to breed, is this from the girl on active and the boy who you say is on the non active? A cat sold on the non active really means it was sold to you as a pet. You wouldn't be able to register any kittens if a parent is on the non active register.
You really need to be certain you want to breed and not be unsure in any way, you need to be 110 percent certain and know exactly what it all involves, you need to read as much as you can about the breed too.
I have loved and owned Siamese and Orientals as pets along with many other breeds, At the age of 18 I knew I would breed Siamese and Orientals one day, I knew I wasn't in the right position to do so at that time so I read up about them and loved my pets and got on with life in general, I had a family of four children, took holidays, etc. 
At the age of 45 and my children all grown up with homes of their own and in my second marriage myself with a more relaxed life I decided to put my dreams into reality, both myself and my husband are at home all day unless we pop to town or visit family for a couple of hours, we have all the time in the world to be with our cats and can be there when they give birth etc.
We are fortunate enough to work from home so any difficulties with the new mums giving birth we are there.
So we looked round and found our first breeding girl, she had some beautiful kittens and we now have an Havana due her kittens in a couple of weeks and we also have an Oriental who hopefully will make a good breeding girl when the time comes, we are looking forward to our new girl joining us in about three weeks time.
Breeding is hard work, it is time consuming,it costs money, it ages you ten years at times when you are up until early hours with a mum giving birth. It is stressful when things go wrong, it is also very rewarding to see these beautiful babies and to see the joy on new owners faces when they come to collect their new little kitten.
Some people especially those who don't share our love for cats ask why we want to be tied down and not have holidays but thats a no brainer, cats are so much more important to us than a couple of weeks in the sun.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Hi Sharonbee, thanks for the information I appreciate the input 

The blue babies are litter mates, so he is non active. (seem to have problems getting just ONE kitten at a time lol)

While considering breeding, one thing I know I can't do is have my own stud, for a few reason, 1. I don't have space for Stud & visiting Queen quarters. 2. I really don't like the thought of a boy being on his own in the quarters 3. I don't think there would be enough Queens in Ireland to keep his "needs" met so think that would be unfair to him 4. While my cats are only alone for at most 3 hours a day due to and my OH hours, I think it would be a stretch to spend enough quality time with Stud boy and indoor cats  and really not sure those stud pants work lol


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## kerryelizabeth134 (Dec 14, 2012)

I'm not a breeder so can't give you any concrete advice, but wanted to say that I admire the thought and carefulness (is that a word?...) that you're putting into the decision. Too many people rush into it without weighing the pros and cons and you seem to be doing a good job so far.

Good luck with everything!


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Have to say showing was one of the reasons I decided to attempt breeding. I wanted & knew what I wanted to show & wanted to be involved in breeding that example. Always knew I wanted to breed but it was sooner than I expected because of how I had enjoyed showing my neuter.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

havoc said:


> To be honest if you are already passionate about the breed then I think you're more than halfway to being a great breeder. The attitude I don't understand is when someone says they want to breed cats but aren't sure which breed to go for.


When we started to breed I had always wanted to breed Siamese from the age of 18 but when the time came we did consider other breeds too, we had a couple of others we were considering before deciding to go with my lifelong dream to breed the Siamese. 
I understand someone wanting to breed but not sure which to breed as I love all cats and there are so many breeds which I love, before making our decision we had a number of conversations with our vet as to what different breeds needed such as the blood compatibility of the BSH, Sphynx, Devon Rex etc, some need to be tested for hcm, pkd, some are laid back, some need all or most of your attention. 
I know of other breeders who breed a few different breeds, the lady we bought Paris from was a judge and manager at some of the shows and she bred Persians, Exotics and Maine Coons. They were all beautiful cats.
The cats we chose before deciding were Siamese/Orientals, BSH and Sphynx.
I love them all but deep down I knew I just had to go with my teenage dream of the Siamese but I see no wrong in someone wanting to breed but unsure which to breed as long as they make the right choice for them in the end.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

All I can say is read many books do a course and get five grand in the bank... I am new to breeding and have been studying and contacting breeders for about 18 months now. Not many breeders like newbies, we all have to start somewhere just like they did, to fulfil our passions and ambitions... It's not cheap and bloody hard work especially if you work. You have no time for anything except your cats they become your life... Forget holidays they will become a thing of the past... And all the heartache ... Am a pretty strong person but when my boy fell ill... It totally knocked me for six ... Still want to do it...


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> All I can say is read many books do a course and get five grand in the bank... I am new to breeding and have been studying and contacting breeders for about 18 months now. Not many breeders like newbies, we all have to start somewhere just like they did, to fulfil our passions and ambitions... It's not cheap and bloody hard work especially if you work. You have no time for anything except your cats they become your life... Forget holidays they will become a thing of the past... And all the heartache ... Am a pretty strong person but when my boy fell ill... It totally knocked me for six ... Still want to do it...


I think most GOOD breeders DO like newbie breeders, and are quite willing to help and guide them.....

Provided the potential new breeders have thought it through very carefully, make the decision to breed for all the right reasons, and have what it takes to become a good breeder: a hunger for knowledge about the breed and breeding in general, plenty of time, the dedication to forsake on holidays, parties and visits to friends and relatives because the cats need them more, the guts to interfere straight away if something appears to be not quite right, the stamina to make the right decision at a moment's notice, and the presence of a knowledgeable vet who will be available at all hours.
And of couse, they will need judgement of human character, to match the right kitten to the right slave, and to politely show potential slaves the door if they don't live up to their slave standard.

I wish all prospective breeders good luck, an experienced, dedicated breeder to set them on the right path, and the wisdom to decide if breeding is really for them.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I like new breeders - I was one once - and still consider myself one 6 years on! I'd love to mentor a newbie at some point.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I actually found that it was difficult to get breeders to give you a chance as a newbie,got there in the end though and i found once i had the prefix breeders took you more serious..just my feelings though.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

That prefix is definitely a winner.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> I actually found that it was difficult to get breeders to give you a chance as a newbie,got there in the end though and i found once i had the prefix breeders took you more serious..just my feelings though.


Same here must be the areas we live lol... Lucky for me I found the most amazing breeders for my breed That trusted me with there babies and helped me with my pain in the ass questions, I am indebted to them for the rest of my breeding life .


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Are you down with a breed club yet cosmills?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Are you down with a breed club yet cosmills?


Yep... All done... Gonna try in 3 months to get prefix and do little mans entirety .


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Yep... All done... Gonna try in 3 months to get prefix and do little mans entirety .


Iv got one of those to sort for cadbury im doing it this week before his litter is here in march


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Yep... All done... Gonna try in 3 months to get prefix and do little mans entirety .


Oh and my breed clud let me do it a little early..reminds me i need to re do my membership.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Iv got one of those to sort for cadbury im doing it this week before his litter is here in march


Still waiting for said reg certificate from his breeding... Been ages but they have it, just got to arrange to pick up then do my bit


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> Still waiting for said reg certificate from his breeding... Been ages but they have it, just got to arrange to pick up then do my bit


Beautiful babies on the way from him... He gorge gorge gorge ... Fingers and paws crossed this end


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Still waiting for said reg certificate from his breeding... Been ages but they have it, just got to arrange to pick up then do my bit


Dont you have it yet?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Dont you have it yet?


Nope... When I went to see him at seventeen weeks they had not reg him.. They do have it as I spoken to his breeder this week ... Hopefully I will get to pick it up next weekend..


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Nope... When I went to see him at seventeen weeks they had not reg him.. They do have it as I spoken to his breeder this week ... Hopefully I will get to pick it up next weekend..


Oh right thats ok then.The paperwork side of breeding gives you a headache :lol:


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> Not many breeders like newbies, .


I really think this depends on how you come into breeding, if you've shown neuters for years then people know who you are, and that you've been learning the standard and about breeding for that time.

If you're just a stranger off the street, it's much harder to convince anyone to let you have an entire cat - as it should be IMO.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I used to show my Havana, when I got my older Orientals I started going to shows with their breeder and ran into some people from the past, plus I got to know a lot of the current people so no problem when i wanted a breeding girl, and the club I belong to were very happy to sign my prefix application. The secretary is one of the someones from the past.

I almost had people lining up to sell me one as they were having problems getting homes for their kittens...


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Firstly thank you to everyone for their input on this. We have decided that Issy will be spayed.

As much as I would love to spread the Meezer love :001_wub: I just don't think I'm ready to do it. I've come to the conclusion that I would NEVER forgive myself if anything happened to Issy Wissy :001_wub: also I know I would be completely heart broken if anything happened to the kittens, AND I really think I would struggle letting the kittens go. I had a hard time when I fostered dogs and cats for rescue, and I got my head round that by knowing if I kept any I fostered I would not be able to help any other dogs or cats in need, and they were going to a better home (rescues always chose, so while I had input in the right home it was never really my choice), I just think with the kittens that they would be my sole responsibility and again I'd really struggle if a kitten of mine ended up in a shitty home  I think breeding is a HUGE responsibility and I guess just not one I am big or strong enough to take on right now


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Well done for putting do much thought into it, I think you'd be a great breeder and perhaps in the future you'll think of it again, clearly you're doing what's right for you at this time


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I think you will make a great breeder, some day, but it is a wise decision to stick to 'just' owning and showing for now, and possibly consider breeding at a later stage. It is a responsibility you need to grow into.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

The reason i breed, probably a complete out there one, but science, i love the genetics behind it. Looking at different pro's and con of a breeding pair and ironing out little quirks to make superb kittens. I don't show, but i like to think i breed and raise my litters responsibly, and i sell the kits as low as i can so others can experience the love of a well bred, raised BSH kitten. It may not be a good enough reason for some, but i am happy with the way i do things and the morals i have whilst doing it and that is what counts


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