# Vetting breeders



## Freddie 6980 (Dec 22, 2010)

I am so pleased to have finally found this forum as I need your advice. I hope I don't stir up a hornets nest, but I am so upset and angry.

Recently I went to see a breeder's home with the intent of purchasing a long haired pedigree cat for my family. Despite the championship rosettes in a dispay case, the place was a pig sty and stank to high heaven of cat urine. There must have been a dozen or more cats in each room, all with free run of the breeders home. Each time the door opened more cats appeared. All the cats were kept indoors and I have no idea how many cats were actually there, but I only saw one litter tray for all of them. The stud was running free and doing what studs do to mark their territory. The hygene was non existant. Food was next to litter trays and the dishes were encrusted with dirt. There was dried cat muck on the walls and furniture and wet poo on some of the cats. As a man I have a strong stomach but this made me ill. Although my 16year old girl gently tried to interest the kittens in play, the kittens just sat with their ears back and wouldn't even be smoothed. 

So I left empty handed despite having already bought everything a kitten needs and the rest of the family waiting at home with open arms. I travelled for three hours each way to see this breeder. It was not a happy journey home and I'm not the kids favourite dad right now. 

We would still like a kitten or young cat but I am loathe to make the same mistake again, so before I travel elsewhere, how do I know how to pick a clean, ethical and responsible breeder from a bad one? Having Rosettes and being well known in breeding circles is no guarantee it seems. 

Thanks,
Fred


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

What breed are you looking at?

Its just a case of asking questions, Good breeders will ask alot in return, and finding someone that you like really, and visiting them, her house does not sound like the best place for a cat let alone a human!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Good on you for walking away. Sorry you've had that experience; it's not terribly common for things to be 'that' bad (not that ANY sort of bad is acceptable) but not uncommon enough, unfortunately.

You have every right, if not more, to be asking as many questions as you wish to prevent you walking into that sort of situation again. I don't think it would go amiss, when you contact other breeders, to tell them about your experience and emphasise that you don't want to repeat it. It's quite in order to ask how many cats the breeder owns; where do they live, indoor/outdoor; where and how are the kittens raised; will you be able to see all their cats and any outdoor accommodation if they have it... I'm sure others here will suggest lots of other things to ask. if a breeder isn't happy answering your questions (and asking plenty of their own too) then look elsewhere.

Just one thing... whilst I'm not suggesting in any way that kittens should be fearful when you approach them (and forgive me if this sounds obvious or condescending - it's not meant that way) remember that cats aren't dogs (I did say it was obvious, didn't I!)... cats are often very reticent with strangers and kittens, depending upon the age you view them might also take a while to relax, especially with a family of "intruders" in the house  

I'm sure you'll get heaps more suggestions here - good luck.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Look at breeders' websites. Try to find one with only a few queens in the house.
Telephone around and ask lots of questions about what you are looking for. Ask how many cats they have, where they are kept etc. Go and visit and if you don't like what you see, walk away. Don't get your children's hopes up that you will be coming home with a kitten. A good breeder is unlikely to have a kitten ready at the time you visit, though it is not impossible. Your kitten (pedigree) should be a minimum of 12 weeks and have had vaccinations and vet checks. 
Be prepared to be asked what you know about your chosen breed, what sort of conditions you expect to keep your kitten - indoor/outdoor, etc.
Good luck and I hope you find the right kitten for your family.


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## Freddie 6980 (Dec 22, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> What breed are you looking at?
> 
> Its just a case of asking questions, Good breeders will ask alot in return, and finding someone that you like really, and visiting them, her house does not sound like the best place for a cat let alone a human!


We went through their vetting us by phone and email, all was satsifactory. We wanted an indoor cat, with an outside run. Home owners. Grown up kids. One of us home all day. Non smokers. No problems there at all.

TBH, I really liked the breeder, they couldn't have been more friendly or helpful. So the house was a total shock. Like I said, they had lots of championship rosettes, so I drove down with my daughter with the absolute expectation of bringing home a 4 month old Ragdoll.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Freddie 6980 said:


> We went through their vetting us by phone and email, all was satsifactory. We wanted an indoor cat, with an outside run. Home owners. Grown up kids. One of us home all day. Non smokers. No problems there at all.
> 
> TBH, I really liked the breeder, they couldn't have been more friendly or helpful. So the house was a total shock. Like I said, they had lots of championship rosettes, so I drove down with my daughter with the absolute expectation of bringing home a 4 month old Ragdoll.


they could have a million rosettes, that doesnt raelly mean anything apart from their cats are good show quality cats, it doesnt mean that their house is clean.

I breed ragdolls where abouts are you, I maybe able to point you in the right direction, you can Private message me if you like 

if you ever have a 'feeling' walk away, IVe walked away from breeders, never pick a cat that you feel sorry for or feel pressured into.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Freddie 6980 said:


> We went through their vetting us by phone and email, all was satsifactory. We wanted an indoor cat, with an outside run. Home owners. Grown up kids. One of us home all day. Non smokers. No problems there at all.
> 
> TBH, I really liked the breeder, they couldn't have been more friendly or helpful. So the house was a total shock. Like I said, they had lots of championship rosettes, so I drove down with my daughter with the absolute expectation of bringing home a 4 month old Ragdoll.


I know the house stunk and was filled with cats, but why did you walk away? were the cats unhealthy looking?
Many people seem to use that as an excuse to "save" the kitten, I would be interested in the reasons why you walked.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> Good on you for walking away. Sorry you've had that experience; it's not terribly common for things to be 'that' bad (not that ANY sort of bad is acceptable) but not uncommon enough, unfortunately.
> 
> *You have every right, if not more, to be asking as many questions as you wish to prevent you walking into that sort of situation again. I don't think it would go amiss, when you contact other breeders, to tell them about your experience and emphasise that you don't want to repeat it. It's quite in order to ask how many cats the breeder owns; where do they live, indoor/outdoor; where and how are the kittens raised; will you be able to see all their cats and any outdoor accommodation if they have it*... I'm sure others here will suggest lots of other things to ask. if a breeder isn't happy answering your questions (and asking plenty of their own too) then look elsewhere.


Freddy, I totally agree with the above. Breeders vet you, and we buyers accept that, it's par for the course. But *it is also our right to vet them*. If they seem reluctant to answer your questions (phone or email)... then move on to the next one.

Ask all of the things GSkinner recommends above, and ask much more, ask what is important to you. I for instance wouldn't want to buy from a breeder who kept queens outdoors for the majority of their lives, other buyers are fine with that as long as the outdoor accomodations are suitable. Basically all I am trying to say is... work out what is important to you... and make a list of "vetting the breeders" questions based on your demands and wishes.

I also agree with the dropping in to conversation of "I don't mean to be cheeky but we went to a breeders home last month and it was soooo filthy/over crowded with cats/stank of cats/chaotic... I really want to avoid that happening again".

And good for you for walking away from a shambles breeding operation like this:thumbsup:. Too many people wrongly feel they have to "save" kittens from breeders like these. If only people would realise that by "saving" these kittens they are condeming generations to the same fate. Well done for walking and not financially supporting bad breeding practices.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Tje said:


> I also agree with the dropping in to conversation of "I don't mean to be cheeky but we went to a breeders home last month and it was soooo filthy/over crowded with cats/stank of cats/chaotic... I really want to avoid that happening again".


I am not sure if that is a good idea or not to be honest. I think you may find some breeders at that point would just put down the phone, and I would not really blame them, and I do not mean those with filthy houses either.

If I was Freddy I would use Google maps and street view to get an idea of where they stay first, not to divide breeders into social categories or "class" necessarily but to see what type of property they have, is it the best house in the street or the worst one? is it run down? is it surrounded by old cars and washing machines? is there a mountain of litter bags outside? Are there rows and rows of cat pens? Is it generally tidy? Do not expect gardens of Gardener's World quality, but tidy definitely helps.
People who live in squalor with their cats tend not to look after the outside of their homes either so although you may miss out on some great breeders, you may also avoid a lot too.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> I am not sure if that is a good idea or not to be honest. I think you may find some breeders at that point would just put down the phone, and I would not really blame them, and I do not mean those with filthy houses either.


I can assure they don't. (obviously I can't say none will hang up on you, though none hung up on me... but I guess a lot -- or all- is down to how one conveys the message. Most normal people, normal breeders with a normal home would feel just as repulsed with a filthy hovel of a home like that which Freddy encountered, and most will understand exactly why the question is being asked.

besdies Lauren, the breeder doesn't wanting to be wasting their time either. I think it is better for both parties if the inital vetting is a two way thing. That way neither party is wasting the other's time.


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## Freddie 6980 (Dec 22, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> I know the house stunk and was filled with cats, but why did you walk away? were the cats unhealthy looking?
> Many people seem to use that as an excuse to "save" the kitten, I would be interested in the reasons why you walked.


It just felt wrong from the get go. Firstly _because_ the house stank and was full of cats! It was also filthy dirty and squalid. It must have been full of germs. I was instantly concerned for the health and well being of the cats and my daughter! They certainly didn't look bright eyed and bushy tailed. Nor curious. No investigation. Not one came walking towards us with it's tail up to greet us. The breeder also admitted some of their cats had died this year.

The cats were obviously stressed and fighting each other for lack of space. Many had soiled bottoms. Litter training was questionable as one pooped on a chair and another peed in front of me on the carpet. In fact I'd rather not remember the carpet. Having had cats before, I know the rule is one litter tray per cat plus a spare, not one tray per 20.

There were NO fleas, so that was good. I could have overlooked most of it at a push, had even one of the kittens been welcoming, curious or friendly. I would love to have taken one out of that nightmare. But the cats and kittens wouldn't even play with the breeder and their da bird toy. The excuse was they had just been fed and were tired but even my daughter didn't believe that and was shaking her head. So, it was alarm bells that got louder and louder for both of us, until we made our excuses and left.

Fred


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> I am not sure if that is a good idea or not to be honest. I think you may find some breeders at that point would just put down the phone, and I would not really blame them, and I do not mean those with filthy houses either.
> 
> If I was Freddy I would use Google maps and street view to get an idea of where they stay first, not to divide breeders into social categories or "class" necessarily but to see what type of property they have, is it the best house in the street or the worst one? is it run down? is it surrounded by old cars and washing machines? is there a mountain of litter bags outside? Are there rows and rows of cat pens? Is it generally tidy? Do not expect gardens of Gardener's World quality, but tidy definitely helps.
> People who live in squalor with their cats tend not to look after the outside of their homes either so although you may miss out on some great breeders, you may also avoid a lot too.


I could not *disagree more*, I live in one of the worst areas known and I breed small time, my cats are all looked after properly as, I have 3 females one male with an outdoor enclosure, I drive a 58 plate car, eat very well and even some-times have a M&S Meal!!  and I live on a* council estate.*

I also know of breeders who live with acres of land squishing in as many cats as possible into pens/outdoor enclosures, these people are "well known" breeders, they show their cats yet they sell them with flies and conjunctivitis, so no I don't agree with that comment at all.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

WindyCity said:


> I could not *disagree more*, I live in one of the worst areas known and I breed small time, my cats are all looked after properly as, I have 3 females one male with an outdoor enclosure, I drive a 58 plate car, eat very well and even some-times have a M&S Meal!!  and I live on a* council estate.*
> 
> I also know of breeders who live with acres of land squishing in as many cats as possible into pens/outdoor enclosures, these people are "well known" breeders, they show their cats yet they sell them with flies and conjunctivitis, so no I don't agree with that comment at all.


I have to agree with that.... I am ULTRA critical of breeders in terms of my expectations are very high ... but even I wouldn't be put off or encouraged by the street/area someone lives in. Filty horrid people live in the best areas, and lovely clean people live in run down council estates. Which doesn't mean I don't have a list the length of my arm of standards I think breeders should have, it's more just .... where they live is not an issue to me.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

some of the best breeders i know are council and are alot older than me to! 
some of the worst are in the best areas.

Also visa versa aswell though!

as for 1 litter tray for all those cats and poopping in chairs? who on earth lives like that?!?!?!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

WindyCity said:


> I could not *disagree more*, I live in one of the worst areas known and I breed small time, my cats are all looked after properly as, I have 3 females one male with an outdoor enclosure, I drive a 58 plate car, eat very well and even some-times have a M&S Meal!!  and I live on a* council estate.*
> 
> I also know of breeders who live with acres of land squishing in as many cats as possible into pens/outdoor enclosures, these people are "well known" breeders, they show their cats yet they sell them with flies and conjunctivitis, so no I don't agree with that comment at all.


I did not say anything about differentiating breeders into "classes" in fact I said "*not* to divide breeders into social categories or "class" .

I agree there are all sorts of breeders breeding in all sorts of housing, what I did say that perhaps going to one that lives on the worst house in the street (any street) is perhaps not the thing to do.
If in fact you live in the most run down looking house in your street and you do have a messy garden full of old cars and old washing machines and litter everywhere, then yes I would dissuade anyone from going there, but disrespecting people who live in council estates was not what I was saying at all.


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> QUOTE=WindyCity;2060339]I could not *disagree more*, I live in one of the worst areas known and I breed small time, my cats are all looked after properly as, I have 3 females one male with an outdoor enclosure, I drive a 58 plate car, eat very well and even some-times have a M&S Meal!!  and I live on a* council estate.*
> 
> I also know of breeders who live with acres of land squishing in as many cats as possible into pens/outdoor enclosures, these people are "well known" breeders, they show their cats yet they sell them with flies and conjunctivitis, so no I don't agree with that comment at all.


I did not say anything about differentiating breeders into "classes" in fact I said "*not* to divide breeders into social categories or "class" .

I agree there are all sorts of breeders breeding in all sorts of housing, what I did say that perhaps going to one that lives on the worst house in the street (any street) is perhaps not the thing to do.
If in fact you live in the most run down looking house in your street and you do have a messy garden full of old cars and old washing machines and litter everywhere, then yes I would dissuade anyone from going there, but disrespecting people who live in council estates was not what I was saying at all.[/QUOTE]

Your first post sounded very different. It suggested googling the postcode, if you googled mine and the first line of my address you would think OMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I always tell people I am looking to move from here as it is a little too crowded for me and the life-style I wish to lead, the street is actually fine, as the neighbors although there are one or two who stay quite near me and they do have 2 cars in their garden? I h\ve no idea what their house is like, I think you have communicate with the Breeder, either via email or telephone to get an idea of what theyare like as a person as that says it all for me.

I DO know of many people living on private estate for example who are absolutely filthy and I would never dream of buying a fish from them, never mind a cat, I agree the house shows this, not the POSTCODE!

Why on earth would one have a garden full of old cars or washing machine in their front gardens ?  I do know the sort of people you mean but the thought of them breeding makes me shudder, yet I know of one and she IS GCCF registered and selling them at 7/8 weeks un-vaccinated. She lives on a farm but still chooses to have old vehicles on her land, and dirty dogs and shizer on her horse trousers.

Anyway, I do hope you find a Breeder. A nice ethical one.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> I did not say anything about differentiating breeders into "classes" in fact I said "*not* to divide breeders into social categories or "class" .
> 
> I agree there are all sorts of breeders breeding in all sorts of housing, what I did say that perhaps going to one that lives on the worst house in the street (any street) is perhaps not the thing to do.
> If in fact you live in the most run down looking house in your street and you do have a messy garden full of old cars and old washing machines and litter everywhere, then yes I would dissuade anyone from going there, but disrespecting people who live in council estates was not what I was saying at all.


I still don't agree Lauren. I don't know how often your google street view/google map things are updated... but the ones of my street are about 3 years old by now. There is a house with a terrible garden 3 doors down from me, but that house was sold and gutted around that time and all the mess that is visable on the google images had to do with the fact the house was being extensively refurbed, and the new people have been in there for 2 and half years or so, so the google images are totally not representative of the current situation.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

WindyCity said:


> Your first post sounded very different. It suggested googling the postcode, if you googled mine and the first line of my address you would think OMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


I got what she was saying---google the postcode, then do a street view to look at the house on the screen--you can do that sometimes with maps.google. That way you can check out how the outside is kept up as a clue to how the inside and, by extension, the cats are kept up. She never seemed to suggest, from my reading anyway, just check out the postcode and if it's a "bad" area, don't go further--Lauren defiinitely seemed to be suggesting to go further than that.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Tje said:


> I still don't agree Lauren. I don't know how often your google street view/google map things are updated... but the ones of my street are about 3 years old by now. There is a house with a terrible garden 3 doors down from me, but that house was sold and gutted around that time and all the mess that is visable on the google images had to do with the fact the house was being extensively refurbed, and the new people have been in there for 2 and half years or so, so the google images are totally not representative of the current situation.


Good point-they are slow to change some things. But if someone, like the OP, is staring a 3 hour each way trip in the face to go check out a kitten, at least it's a place to start I suppose.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

I have a slightly overgrown garden as I am rubbish/don't like gardening - hope that doesn't mean my cats are living in filth!!!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Freddie 6980 said:


> It just felt wrong from the get go. Firstly _because_ the house stank and was full of cats! It was also filthy dirty and squalid. It must have been full of germs. I was instantly concerned for the health and well being of the cats and my daughter! They certainly didn't look bright eyed and bushy tailed. Nor curious. No investigation. Not one came walking towards us with it's tail up to greet us. The breeder also admitted some of their cats had died this year.
> 
> The cats were obviously stressed and fighting each other for lack of space. Many had soiled bottoms. Litter training was questionable as one pooped on a chair and another peed in front of me on the carpet. In fact I'd rather not remember the carpet. Having had cats before, I know the rule is one litter tray per cat plus a spare, not one tray per 20.
> 
> ...


poor, poor cats :frown: the ones who suffer in all of this. i'd contact the rspca not that they'll do anything but worth a shot. they may go in and rehome a couple and help her out, who knows. i hope you find your kitten soon. i suggest after xmas now, maybe as a new years gift to your family. visit ragdoll cat clubs online and good luck in your search, there are good breeders out there.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

yet I know of one and she IS GCCF registered and selling them at 7/8 weeks un-vaccinated. S

why bother of going through the hassle of being gccf reg if she doesnt bother with it? might as well just sell them and not have the gccf?? 7 weeks  that always makes me sad thinking of my kittens at 7weeks howe tiny they are and them snuggling next to their mum  couldnt rip them away from eachother 



Tje said:


> I still don't agree Lauren. I don't know how often your google street view/google map things are updated... but the ones of my street are about 3 years old by now. There is a house with a terrible garden 3 doors down from me, but that house was sold and gutted around that time and all the mess that is visable on the google images had to do with the fact the house was being extensively refurbed, and the new people have been in there for 2 and half years or so, so the google images are totally not representative of the current situation.


oh god!!! mine shows a bed i took down about 18months ago!! haha!!! :lol: the wooden frame is down the side of my house waiting to go to the tip!! :eek6:


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2010)

Mine shows a skip infront of my house which is secretly were I keep the dogs.....






Joke joke.....:lol:


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Mine shows a skip infront of my house which is secretly were I keep the dogs.....
> 
> Joke joke.....:lol:


I like it!! my attic has crates full of .........................

No now I am just being silly.

I think the only way to check a Breeder is to visit/call/email and see what you think of the person who is caring for the cats and how their cat look themselves is usually a good sign, I have a fair amount of "Visits" to see if people like the breed.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I don't blame you for leaving, but there are a couple of things you need to be aware of before you look elsewhere. First, one litter tray per cat plus a spare only applies to very small populations of cats. You are not going to find a breeder with 21 litter trays. Second, you need very outgoing cats indeed to settle and play with strangers, and the more people come in at a time, the less likely the cats are to come out to play. I am sure most of mine wouldn't, and yet they are highly affectionate with people they know. If they weren't actually running away then I'd say they were very well socialised and outgoing cats.

Liz


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## Freddie 6980 (Dec 22, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> oh god!!! mine shows a bed i took down about 18months ago!! haha!!! :lol: the wooden frame is down the side of my house waiting to go to the tip!! :eek6:


Taylorbaby, I looked through several of your videos. I can see your cats playing within the home. They look to be very happy and in a great environment. Different as chalk and cheese, I can assure you.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

lizward said:


> I don't blame you for leaving, but there are a couple of things you need to be aware of before you look elsewhere. First, one litter tray per cat plus a spare only applies to very small populations of cats. You are not going to find a breeder with 21 litter trays.


Possibly some breeders don't have a tray per cat or the equivalent of a tray per cat, (though many do) but that does not mean that one tray for 20 cats is the norm or acceptable or anything remotely like that. One tray for 20 cats is wrong. Period. I am sure the OP is capable of working out what an acceptable amount of litter trays would have been, and 1 for 20 cats is nowhere near acceptable, hence whey they were pooping on chairs and peeing right in front of the visitors.



lizward said:


> Second, you need very outgoing cats indeed to settle and play with strangers, and the more people come in at a time, the less likely the cats are to come out to play. I am sure most of mine wouldn't, and yet they are highly affectionate with people they know. If they weren't actually running away then I'd say they were very well socialised and outgoing cats.


I have had all types of kittens, from ferals to semi ferals to kittens who are older when they come to me with poor or no socialization. The only kittens that actually run away from visitors (and stay hidden and act withdrawn in the manner the OP describes) are the ferals and semi ferals. Assuming the people coming to view the kittens are half way normal and don't pounce on the cats and force cuddles etc on them, most of my kittens will react positively to newcomers, as long as they're initially given their space and time to come around. They will certainly come to the foreground and play with me. And 5 minutes after that if I pass the "in" toy to the visitors, they'll be fine. I am sure the OP wasn't expecting the kittens to jump on his lap and hang around his neck, and he is capable of spotting the difference between poorly and well socialised kittens.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Tje said:


> Possibly some breeders dont have a tray per cat or the equivalent of a tray per cat, (though many do) but that does not mean that one tray for 20 cats is the norm or acceptable or anything remotely like that. One tray for 20 cats is wrong. Period. I am sure the OP is capable of working out what an acceptable amount of litter trays would have been, and 1 for 20 cats is nowhere near acceptable, hence whey they were pooping on chairs and peeing right in front of the visitors.
> 
> I have had all types of kittens, from ferals to semi ferals to kittens who are older when they come to me with poor or no socialization. The only kittens that actually run away from visitors (and stay hidden and act withdrawn in the manner the OP describes) are the ferals and semi ferals. Assuming the people coming to view the kittens are half way normal and dont pounce on the cats and force cuddles etc on them, most of my kittens will react positively to newcomers, as long as theyre initially given their space and time to come around. They will certainly come to the foreground and play with me. And 5 minutes after that if I pass the in toy to the visitors, theyll be fine. I am sure the OP wasn't expecting the kittens to jump on his lap and hang around his neck, and he is capable of spotting the difference between poorly and well socialised kittens.


Im with you here, my cat came from a farm where she saw people occasionally but was not handled every day. However, she is the first one in the house to gree strangers! She is always right up to them having a good sniff and more often than not ends up on their lap  She isnt the friendliest cat in the world as well but she seems to think "if im nice to strangers they will give me candy" 
Id be concered i couldnt get kittens to play too, Squeaks kittens were always right up to anyone who came into the house - in their bags, eating their shoelaces - try and stop them!

I wouldnt expect a breeders house to be full of litter boxes, but id damn well expect more than one!
For me a house can be untidy and lived in (mine is), but if a house is filthy it gets me thinking "if they cant keep a house half decent how do they care for the animals?" :confused1:


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Freddie 6980 said:


> Taylorbaby, I looked through several of your videos. I can see your cats playing within the home. They look to be very happy and in a great environment. Different as chalk and cheese, I can assure you.


ooo thanks very much! mine are 'free range kittens' haha  

I have.......*thinks* 4 litter trays for....4cats! very large ones to!
when we have kittens it has sometimes gone up to 8! a mixture of open/close/small/big I do like them to have a choice!   :lol:


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

YouTube - How Clean Is Your House - Cat Vomit 2


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

holly1 said:


> YouTube - How Clean Is Your House - Cat Vomit 2


Im sorry but peoole who live like that must have mental health issues, shes living in crap and sick and bins?? who the hell lives like that?? 

Theres me thinking Im bad as I havent swept today!! :lol:


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

It does make me feel better about my house cleaning,I have to say.
but they are out there....dirty beggers:scared:


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Firstly i would like to say i know a lot of very decent poeple who live in " rough " areas and visa versa so you cant judge anyone by the area they live in. Back to the OP, as a potential buyer of a kitten from a breeder there are 100s of questions you can ask, and def DON'T be afraid to ask, if they obejct to any questions i would be concerned they mabe hiding something, Look at their website, most breeders will have one and look at photos of there cats/kittens as poeple take pics of there cats in there homes and sometimes you can see all sorts lol, Make a few visits, if they are genuine then they will welcome you , Ask for reccomendations too. I do understand your families dissapointment but its far better to wait a little longer and get a clean, healthy well socialised kitten, one last thing Fred well done you for walking away from them too, i do hope you find your perfect kittens very soon best wishes and have a lovely xmas......Nadolig Llawen.........Chris


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I take the point re "rough areas", however, if I was going to travel 3 hours away like Freddie did, to go and see a breeder I would definitely Google the house to see where I would be going. If I didn't like that area nor the property from the outside then I wouldn't go, whether it was a run down council house, a rambling country property or a private property in a leafy lane. I do not think I would be alone. If breeders are going to set themselves up to sell kittens then they need to tick all the boxes. A pet pedigree cat can cost anything up to about £2000 depending on the breed, if breeders think customers are going to hand that sort of money over without checking up on the breeder and making "judgements", then they are not thinking straight. 
It is true that many lovely people live in rough areas, but some people live in rough areas because they themselves are "rough". "Rough" people are as capable of selling kittens as lovely people, it is deciding which is which is the problem. 
Entering "rough areas" if you are not familiar with them because you live 3 hours away is not something I would do and I certainly wouldn't drive children to there either with a big lump of cash in my pocket to pay for a kitten, so although it is technically and morally not correct to judge people on the area they live in, it is correct to make sure you keep you and yours safe.



Starlite said:


> For me a house can be untidy and lived in (mine is), but if a house is filthy it gets me thinking "if they cant keep a house half decent how do they care for the animals?" :confused1:


I agree.

Freddie,
I think it is a good idea to visit and speak to loads of breeders and then make up your mind. Some breeders will do and say anything just to make a sale so unless you can compare with others, then you could make a big mistake. 
Ragdolls have a disease called HCM in the breed, breeders should be aware of this and should DNA test their cats for the gene. The DNA test will not show up all HCM, so some breeders also scan their cats hearts.
Ragdoll HCM


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

It is very dificult for a pet person too know if whether the breeder they are talking too over the internet or over the phone is the breeder for you, it usually takes a visit too their home before you know, as you found out with the breeder you visited, the best way is word of mouth i suppose, you could visit a GCCF show and ask people showing cats about the breeder, Ragdoll breed clubs like the TRCS or the TBRCC could probably help you, if you visit more than one breeder you will see the different set-ups.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

By comparison, we went to a breeder yesterday, who was just about the opposite of everything the OP encountered. Lots of indoor cats, yes, but home was scrupulously clean and absolutely no smell. We had to wash our hands in a specialist cleaner before we could touch the cats. The cats were fed in stainless steel bowls, clean enough for a hospital operating theatre. I didn't see or smell any litter trays. They had a litter robot, which the breeder says is the best thing she has ever invested in. All the cats were well groomed, the kittens were curious and played with us and each other. We didn't see a single spat. And they smelled of baby powder. The garden was cat proofed and the studs were in a large cattery. We were shown both parents and were invited to ask any questions, before we faced a barrage of questions in return. We were thrilled when they said yes to us as we had fallen for a lovely 13 week old ragdoll kitten.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

MaryA said:


> By comparison, we went to a breeder yesterday, who was just about the opposite of everything the OP encountered. Lots of indoor cats, yes, but home was scrupulously clean and absolutely no smell. We had to wash our hands in a specialist cleaner before we could touch the cats. The cats were fed in stainless steel bowls, clean enough for a hospital operating theatre. I didn't see or smell any litter trays. They had a litter robot, which the breeder says is the best thing she has ever invested in. All the cats were well groomed, the kittens were curious and played with us and each other. We didn't see a single spat. And they smelled of baby powder. The garden was cat proofed and the studs were in a large cattery. We were shown both parents and were invited to ask any questions, before we faced a barrage of questions in return. We were thrilled when they said yes to us as we had fallen for a lovely 13 week old ragdoll kitten.


aww they sound lovely! and its a beautiful kitten to!  :thumbup:
whats a litter robot??


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> whats a litter robot??


^^^^^ I was going to ask that too!

So, you're having a new kitten MaryA? How lovely  Don't forget to post some pics of your new arrival.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

dougal22 said:


> ^^^^^ I was going to ask that too!
> 
> So, you're having a new kitten MaryA? How lovely  Don't forget to post some pics of your new arrival.


I did. It is Katie's companion in the gallery.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> whats a litter robot??


It looks like a small cement mixer. It is big. Please google it, as I'm not sure where you can buy it in the UK. They are about £250.


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## christie12 (Sep 18, 2010)

WindyCity said:


> I could not *disagree more*, I live in one of the worst areas known and I breed small time, my cats are all looked after properly as, I have 3 females one male with an outdoor enclosure, I drive a 58 plate car, eat very well and even some-times have a M&S Meal!!  and I live on a* council estate.*
> 
> I also know of breeders who live with acres of land squishing in as many cats as possible into pens/outdoor enclosures, these people are "well known" breeders, they show their cats yet they sell them with flies and conjunctivitis, so no I don't agree with that comment at all.


i have to agree with what you say , i would be very upset if i was judged on my neighbours front garden and i have seen an ad from a breeder from a lovely area who is imo breeding the life out of her cat,


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