# Colitis



## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Alfie ended up with colitis after his bile acid test last wednesday.

Back at vets on Tuesday past, got antibiotics which finish tomorrow.

His poo today was poo shaped but very soft.

Hes being fed boiled white rice and fish.

Pondering if its too soon to introduce his normal food which is Fishmongers fish and potato.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Personally I would wait until his pooh is normal on the fish and rice for a good couple of days first.
May be give him a bit of natural yoghurt or cottage cheese. Antibiotics can strip their tum's of good bacteria and cause upsets.

Hope Alfie is back to normal v soon


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Sorry forgot to say he's getting natural yoghurt and probiotic tablets.

Just wasn't sure how firm his poos would get on fish and rice.

Thank you


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

A bland diet usually sorts their tum and pooh becomes as firm as normal

Great you've got some good gut health going on after the AB's


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

I'd also keep him on bland food for a bit longer. I think if he isn't back to normal in another couple of days I'd be back down the vets. 

Pickles had his first tablet Friday night and did a normal stool this morning. Have they given you Metronozidale / stormagl (sp?)


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

The AB I got is Noradine.

Last AB today so will see how his poo is and will give vets a ring.

He is loving the rice and fish though.

Thanks.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok so Alfies poos have been getting slowly better this week.

He didn't do a poo yesterday and I introduced just 20 gms of his normal kibbles into his fish/rice dinner last night. 

This morning his poo was very sloppy again and second poo on walk was also sloppy and blood tinged at the end.

His normal kibbles surely shouldn't have affected him so soon so just gave him a little rice/fish this morning which is what hes been fed all week.

Think I'll give vets a call in the morning.

Definitely a bit of a setback


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I have so much sympathy for you. We are on about 5th week of bland diet, chicken and rice diet for my Tess. The antibiotics did not seem to help at all, after a 14 day course. Waiting for analysis of 3 day stool sample.

Although her poo seems normal, intermittently its soft. No mucous for about a week though. Hoping that's a good thing. I dare not feed anything like her regular kibble and although she's fairly energetic still, she's not like she was one bit, much to Stan her partner in crimes disgust.

When it initially started I just presumed it was a bug. Bad stomach, starve for a day. Chicken and rice for 3 days and slowly introduce her normal food. After adding a small bit of kibble, had the runs again. Although, on hindsight I think it would have happened either way. As its intermittent anyway on her bland diet.

Read with interest dubuss thread, but was gutted she had no response to antibiotics.

Hope Alfie feels better soon.

Just to add, Tess seems to not have her usual quota of poo per day, then has soft, or sloppy poo the next. Which sounds like Alfie too. It took 4 days for me to collect a 3 day sample if that makes sense.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

I'm worried that fish/rice diet is not enough ongoing for god knows how long. 

Alfie only had one week of antibiotics, vet said if blood was cleared no need for more but def blood tinged today.

Maybe I should try Pro-kolin paste to see if that helps though Yumpro probiotic tablets he's getting I thought were decent enough.

He has had a poo every day except yesterday and each day was slightly better so sloppy poo this morning was a surprise.

Goodness 5 weeks, thats a long time. When do you get results?

Alfie is in good form too, apart from poos, you wouldnt know anything was wrong.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

EAD said:


> I'm worried that fish/rice diet is not enough ongoing for god knows how long.
> 
> Alfie only had one week of antibiotics, vet said if blood was cleared no need for more but def blood tinged today.
> 
> ...


Definitely explore putting him on Pro-Kolin. Amazing stuff. If I could pick 3 indispensable pet med products I couldn't live without, it would be Pro-Kolin, Betadine Solution and Thornit powder.

It is brilliant for restoring an irritated gut. Never found anything which worked half as well.

Your vet ought to carry it but if not

Protexin Pro-Kolin Plus Syringe 30 ml: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

( do read the reviews!)


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Results any time this week!

I feel the same as you that bland diet is not enough, but obviously it is some substance at least. Better than not eating.

I was told that antibiotics would probably be best given long term for Tess if they had any effect. Had also tried pro kolin paste, which the vet told me to not use because it was not working anyway. Which it wasn't, shes fine for about 2 days then tummy troubles the next.

As Alfie's colitis was triggered by the bile test or is presumed to be triggered by that then that's why antibiotics hopefully was just a short term fix, and should have worked.

Fingers crossed your vets help you, it might be you just need more antibiotics for a longer period, so you will just need to collect them.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Read some reviews, all very positive. I believe the vets do stock it, will get some tomorrow.

What are the results going to tell you?

Pondering whether to try him back on Hills i/d, hard to know what to do for the best.

Hate him being on antibiotics as his alt and alkp already elevated so the less drugs the better. Also hasn't been getting his Sam.e or milk thistle either since this started.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I believe the results will tell me if its caused by parasites or specific bacteria overload. So more precise antibiotics or something like panacur for parasites.

I know not everyone is a fan of prescription diets, with shocking ingredients. I chose Burns to feed instead of a prescription diet. However, if Burns was unsuitable i would definitely feed whatever helps, regardless of the ingredients. If that makes sense. After reading on this forum about what foods people give to manage ailments and illness some not being what most would describe as good foods. I really think that i would feed whatever it takes, and whatever suits to make a dog well again. So if my Tess has to eat a prescription diet for life, then that's what she will eat. Same as the other dogs really.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

EAD said:


> Alfie ended up with colitis after his bile acid test last wednesday.
> 
> Back at vets on Tuesday past, got antibiotics which finish tomorrow.
> 
> ...


As they feed a highly fatty meal when they do the liver bile acid test, I am wondering if that's the cause of the colitis and if he has a problem with digesting fat in the diet and that's what has set off the stomach problem.

Too fatty meals can also be a trigger for pancreatitis, you can get various forms of pancreatitis from acute (sudden attacks) and chronic (ongoing) symptoms can be mild to moderate to severe so can vary.

Pancreatitis can also cause the elevated liver enzymes he has too. You can also get problems with the actual production of enzymes by the pancreas and when this happens the body cant break down certain components in the diet. Some enzymes break down fats, some proteins and some carbs etc.

Have they done any tests on his pancreas to see if that's working OK?

Might not be this, but as the liver bile acids test seems to have sparked it off just wondering if there is a connection maybe.

Only other thought is it your westie that's having the problems I cant remember? Westies can be prone to a problem called copper storage disease where copper gets stored in the liver and that can cause scaring and liver problems. You can get three forms of that apparently. Subclinical where its present but doesn't cause noticeable changes or symptoms. Acute (sudden) that seems to be seen on young dogs and can cause problems in liver tissue and the last is apparently chronic which is slow progression and symptoms are seen on middle age and older dogs. You can apparently too get conditions that will cause problems with the flow of bile and that will cause secondary copper build up. Some breeds seem more prone to it and the westie is listed as one.
One of the main things for management see, to be diets that are low in copper
and it seems that most commercial diets contain considerably high amounts of copper.

Again may be totally irrelevant but thought may be worth a mention.


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## Daffers (Jul 22, 2014)

Hi Sorry, hope don't mind me posting this here but my 12 yr old Petit Basset - who is also a diabetic - was taken ill on Friday. He's been picky with his food for a couple of days but we managed to entice him to eat, but Friday evening he wouldn't touch anything. He spent all day at the vets on Saturday with intravenous antibiotics, anti-sickness and water as he was dehydrated. Also before we went into the vets he did a pooh which was very loose with lots of mucus and blood. However, his tests have proved normal - even the pancreatic test has come back negative. He is home now but still poorly, and won't eat which is throwing his diabetes out completely. I've tried chicken, cooked liver, cooked ham, most of the range of lily's kitchen tins, royal canin sensitive wet, hot dog (which he actually had half of), and fish. He's on pro-kolin and anti-biotic (metronizadole) twice a day and hasn't been sick and whilst he still has the runs he only went once yesterday and no blood. Any idea what else I can try to feed him with - we are back at the vets this morning with him, he was drinking OK - 50ml or so every hour when offered to him, but just now I had to syringe it into him. I just think that if we can get him eating he will pick up a lot !


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok just spoke to vets, he had his breakfast of rice/fish/yoghurt this morning and she said fast him until tomorrow morning. Going to get Prokolin later and try that before putting him back on antibiotics.

She mentioned worming and I havent wormed him in quite a while but have had poo sample checked with Wormcount. 

I'm reluctant to throw wormer into him if it's not needed

His poos were absolutely perfect until the fatty meal for bile acid test so you would be nearly sure it was the cause, it's just getting things settled again.

No tests done on pancreas as up until bile acid there was no problem. Liver enzymes have been elevated for quite a while. Are you saying about checking for pancreatitis because of elevated liver enzymes even though no symptoms, if that makes sense lol.

Alfie is my Scottie btw.

Lullabydream I hope results give you answers. I know what you mean about foods, all worth a try if they help the dog.

Daffers let us know how you got on at vets. Poor boy.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

On the point about worming. I think as daft as it seems, it can be the cause of many upset stomach. However, we all presume it is something worse and are quite dismissive of the obvious. So the vets will always ask.

I wormed Tess at the start of all this, i get worming reminders via text and although she was having tummy troubles, i still went ahead and gave her a tablet just incase it was the cause. She had never reacted badly to a wormer before, but i know there is always the chance a reaction can happen anytime.

If you have worm counts, i believe they can check for other things at the same time, so if it was giardia it would have been ruled out. Not actually using the service though, i am not entirely sure and it might be something you need to request.

I think SDH might be right with her theory, that it is a problem with the pancreas, due to the raised liver enzymes. I am however not a vet, and probably do not understand all about pancreas and liver problems. But i did have a dog with liver problems so read everything i could find to gain some understanding and to try and help. I remember reading along the lines of what SDH said when my own dog had a bile acid test. She had no adverse reaction, unlike Alfie. So i do feel sympathy for you. However, i was aware if my Poppy had some other underlying problem involving her pancreas then the fatty food can trigger a flare up.


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## Daffers (Jul 22, 2014)

Herbie still not great - and still not eating  Tried chappie but no luck with it. I've also got some NM Chicken and Rabbit pouch, Symply Duck and Potato, and Symply Fish and Rice to try him on. Vet reckons its still a gastric bug that he's got as everything else seems OK, but they want us back again tomorrow if he's not perked up or at least eaten a little more. They didn't ask if he'd been wormed or not, as it happens he was about a month a go.

He has bouts of pancreatitis too and his liver enzymes were 'off the scale' (vets exact words) at one point so I put him on milk thistle tablets from dorwest herbs about 6 months or so ago and his liver enzymes are now near normal. Might be worth a try with your little one. Apparently even a short term burst of milk thistle is good for dogs


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Daffers said:


> Hi Sorry, hope don't mind me posting this here but my 12 yr old Petit Basset - who is also a diabetic - was taken ill on Friday. He's been picky with his food for a couple of days but we managed to entice him to eat, but Friday evening he wouldn't touch anything. He spent all day at the vets on Saturday with intravenous antibiotics, anti-sickness and water as he was dehydrated. Also before we went into the vets he did a pooh which was very loose with lots of mucus and blood. However, his tests have proved normal - even the pancreatic test has come back negative. He is home now but still poorly, and won't eat which is throwing his diabetes out completely. I've tried chicken, cooked liver, cooked ham, most of the range of lily's kitchen tins, royal canin sensitive wet, hot dog (which he actually had half of), and fish. He's on pro-kolin and anti-biotic (metronizadole) twice a day and hasn't been sick and whilst he still has the runs he only went once yesterday and no blood. Any idea what else I can try to feed him with - we are back at the vets this morning with him, he was drinking OK - 50ml or so every hour when offered to him, but just now I had to syringe it into him. I just think that if we can get him eating he will pick up a lot !





Daffers said:


> Herbie still not great - and still not eating  Tried chappie but no luck with it. I've also got some NM Chicken and Rabbit pouch, Symply Duck and Potato, and Symply Fish and Rice to try him on. Vet reckons its still a gastric bug that he's got as everything else seems OK, but they want us back again tomorrow if he's not perked up or at least eaten a little more. They didn't ask if he'd been wormed or not, as it happens he was about a month a go.
> 
> He has bouts of pancreatitis too and his liver enzymes were 'off the scale' (vets exact words) at one point so I put him on milk thistle tablets from dorwest herbs about 6 months or so ago and his liver enzymes are now near normal. Might be worth a try with your little one. Apparently even a short term burst of milk thistle is good for dogs


Its possible it could be a bug perhaps, but if it persists and given his symptoms and the fact he already has diabetes and sometimes one endocrine problem can also be in conjunction with another. There is another condition that may explain it and that's an adrenal deficiency. Symptoms can wax and wane for a long time and be put down to other things, but often its not picked up until there is a crisis. Not a lot it anything usually shows up on the normal blood tests either a lot of the time, and often after intravenous theraphy they may pick up or for awhile. It will though often cause anorexia (not eating) vomiting and/or diarrhoea and dehydration amongst other things. Hopefully it is just a bug and he will have a turn around soon, as with viral infections you usually cant do much apart from supportive theraphy and let it run its course, but just thought I would mention it in case it continues, as he already has diabetes and the symptoms he is having, and the fact that all tests so far at least have come up pretty clear which isn't unusual with insufficient adrenal problems.

There is a good link below that explains all about it. It can happen to any dog but some breeds can be more prone to it then others. The westie foundation which has some excellent info explaining about it as westies are one of the breeds that can be more prone. It explains everything, including diagnosis and treatment.

http://www.westiefoundation.org/pdf/newsletter/2003/03addisons.pdf


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Just as an afterthought there is this liquid food, although you would need to check with the vet if it would be Ok to give him, if he has diabetes and can be prone to pancreatitis flare ups first.

Veterinary and Technical | Liquivite - Liquid food for Cats and Dogs

Liquid food - Ideal for weaning kittens or puppies. Also appeals to the sick or older cat or dog


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## Daffers (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions and help - good news he ate some chicken breast this morning  yaaaay, so hopefully we are on the up. We did ask the vet to check for addisons but it was clear. In 2012 he was diagnosed with cushings, but then last year went into an addisonian crisis, very similar symptoms to pancreatitis but with anorexia thrown in for good measure - so one extreme to the other really ! He was hospitalised at the RVC for 2 weeks and they got him through it, but they did tell us that the addisonian crisis was caused by the vetoryl he was being given for his cushings and that whilst our vets did nothing wrong there is no way of being 100% certain about cushings without a biopsy which is very rarely done. He is neither cushings nor addisonian now. He is a complicated creature (I have 4 dogs and not one of them normal) and has gone through an awful lot over the last 3 years (in 2011 he had a cruciate ligament op and then broke the same leg !!! ), but he is wonderfully chilled and laid back and just seems to accept any treatment he is given without question.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Daffers said:


> Thanks for the suggestions and help - good news he ate some chicken breast this morning  yaaaay, so hopefully we are on the up. We did ask the vet to check for addisons but it was clear. In 2012 he was diagnosed with cushings, but then last year went into an addisonian crisis, very similar symptoms to pancreatitis but with anorexia thrown in for good measure - so one extreme to the other really ! He was hospitalised at the RVC for 2 weeks and they got him through it, but they did tell us that the addisonian crisis was caused by the vetoryl he was being given for his cushings and that whilst our vets did nothing wrong there is no way of being 100% certain about cushings without a biopsy which is very rarely done. He is neither cushings nor addisonian now. He is a complicated creature (I have 4 dogs and not one of them normal) and has gone through an awful lot over the last 3 years (in 2011 he had a cruciate ligament op and then broke the same leg !!! ), but he is wonderfully chilled and laid back and just seems to accept any treatment he is given without question.


Vetoryl can cause over suppression of the cortisol, and send them the other way in to addisons. I had a cushings dog too and they should have regular 3 monthly ACTH tests to monitor the levels.

To diagnose the cushings she had an ACTH test followed by a low dose dexamethasone test. Then once she was diagnosed she had tests close together at first to monitor the effects of the vetoryl and then they were finally carried out every 3 months together with other relevant biochemistry and hemotology tests to monitor any other changes/problems and check for any occurring diabetes.

As far as I know cushings and addisons can be diagnosed with blood tests. Im actually on hydrocortisone now myself as I have multiple endocrine problems including cortisol levels that are lower then they should be and don't respond as they should as regards to production/levels. All my endocrine probs were actually found with various related/specific blood tests, although they did do scans and MRIs on the pituitary gland, thyroid and adrenals to make sure I hadn't any tumours, which there thankfully wasn't.
If symptoms persist it might be worth still considering if you haven't had any blood tests like the ACTH since 2012, its a long time ago and there may have been some adrenal changes that have occurred since, so addisons or low levels or cortisol may even be an issue given the symptoms now. It may be something else and will resolve itself, but if it doesn't or reoccurs it might be worth discussing with the vet about running the blood tests to be sure expecially with previous adrenal problem history.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok so it's three weeks today since Alfies bile acid test and colitis started. He has been getting Prokolin for three days now and poos soft. Far from normal.

I'm pondering should I try him on Hills i/d or is fish and rice ok ongoing?

Homeopathic vet today gave me Sulphur to try.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I really do not know what to suggest. I presume the prescription diet becomes under the term 'bland diet. But I cannot be sure. Is the prescription diet kibble? It was suggested to me keep Tess on the chicken rice, fish and rice anything bland. In vets term if it looks pale it is OK. So mash potato would be fine as a substitute for rice. However, if I was not keen on the 'home' cooking bit, I could always purchase prescription wet food! I am not sure what the labelling on this would be though.

I did have a quick look on zoo plus, and they have some prescription diet for digestion problems in the wet variety. I did wonder whether to buy it. I know it was quite pricey, but so is all prescription diet food. However I presumed it was cheaper than buying from the vets. Tess should be about 12kg, so would need quite a bit so probably more costly for her, than your Alfie.

I suppose after all my ramblings, what I should say is give your vet a ring in the morning and see what they suggest. They might be happy to start the prescription diet. If Alfie's stools are still not normal then maybe stick to the fish and rice.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Additional thought, have you considered contacting Burns. Their wet food, the penlan range is supposed to be good for managing pancreas problems, and they do seem rather 'bland'. Might be another option for you.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

The hills i/d is bland or Royal Canin Sensitivity would be similar. It can be tinned or kibble.

My vets said try either home cooked or prescription diet.

Suppose I'm worrying the home cooking is not giving him everything he needs.

Alfie is 10kgs.

Thanks will have a nosey at Burns.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

EAD said:


> The hills i/d is bland or Royal Canin Sensitivity would be similar. It can be tinned or kibble.
> 
> My vets said try either home cooked or prescription diet.
> 
> ...


Cant remember if I gave you this before if you want to try a home cooked diet?
Its a liver cleansing diet from epilepsy guardian angels website,meant for dogs that have suffered liver problems due to the epilepsy drugs. It lists any supplements you need to give too to ensure its complete.

Liver Cleansing Diet and Milk Thistle

Supplements for Home Cooked Diets - Canine Epilepsy Guardian Angels

There is a healthy adult diet on there too.

Healthy Adult Diet

Otherwise it might be worth trying the ID or similar prescription diet at least for a while just to see if it settles her and gets back to normal. One of my friends dogs had Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency she was on it the rest of her life after she was diagnosed with EPI and she was fine on it.


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## Daffers (Jul 22, 2014)

Hi Sled Dog, Herbie had all his tests as you say every 3 months when going through his cushings phase, and they all came back as positive for cushings. It was really wierd - every time he has an episode like this I always ask the vet to check his blood levels etc for addisons and it comes back as clear. Not sure what's going on with him really, although he is a complicated dog (both mentally and physically !!) he's happy enough and usually has good health - apart from his diabetes which we have got used to managing now. Looking back he never did have any physical signs of cushings, we took him to the vet because one of our other dogs had begun to hump him continually which was totally out of character. It's a long story and one that I'll pop on the forum somewhere because its an interesting one for those into doggie behaviour and how they interact with each other.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you for suggestions.

Had a nosey at diets but decided to try Royal Canin tinned sensitivity, will hopefully be here Saturday.

Continuing with Pro-Kolin and Sulphur, poo today started off promising but ended not so good.

Hopefully tomorrow will be better.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Hoping its a better day for Alfie today in the toilet department today.

They can be such a worry.

Let me know how Alfie gets on with his new food. Food is always a minefield, but if you find something that suits good for you. I hope it helps.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

Pickles had a home cooked diet of fish and rice for 3 months before we were able to stabilise his stomach from ongoing colitis.

It's a downward spiral as we couldn't give him anything else without it upsetting his stomach, but he was missing nutrients etc so putting weight back on was very slow.

How is Alfie this morning? What antibiotic are you getting? Our vets have always prescribed metronidazole or Tylosin for his colitis. I am right in thinking the a/b helped at first but not got rid of it completely?


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

I also meant to say we feed pickles Arden Grange sensitive wet in fish and potato. Its very bland and low in fat. Hopefully the new diet will help, but if not, it's another possibility to consider.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Alfies poo today was firm ( ish.) 

Lately they've started off ok but end up softer.

New food won't be here till Monday so will stick with rice and fish over the weekend.

The food he was fed before this all started was fish and potato so hopefully bland enough to eventually put him back on.

He's not on Abs at the minute. Only had them for a week up until Tuesday week ago, at that point vet said no need for more unless there was blood and all seemed to be improving until the Sunday when he was very runny again with blood. He's been getting just Prokolin since.

Abs were Noradine though vet said if putting him on more she would be giving him Noraclav.

I weighed Alfie yesterday and he's doesn't appear to have lost weight.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

EAD said:


> Alfies poo today was firm ( ish.)
> 
> Lately they've started off ok but end up softer.
> 
> ...


Have you got the results of the liver bile acid test yet or gotten to the bottom of the raised liver enzyme cause? Just a though but Norodine, which is Trimethoprine and sulfadiazine are not recommended with animals who have any hepatic (liver) dysfunction.

Norbrook Laboratories | Veterinary, Equine, Farm Animal and Pet Products


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Bile acid results showed good liver function.

So atm dont know why alt and alkp are elevated, though from reading on the Internet it appears Scottish terriers are prone to it and something that's being looked at in the States.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Poo report 

Firmest its been since before colitis started.

No blood since last Sunday and no mucous all week.

Pondering whether to just introduce his normal food tomorrow instead of the Royal Canin Sensitivity.

Its Fishmongers Finest white fish & potato, says its for sensitive tums.

Fishmonger's Finest rated 3.5 out of 5! All About Dog Food


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

You see i am probably talking rubbish, but when you look at ingredients of the food. It looks minimal, so i would think that would be a basic kibble and definitely easy digestible. If that makes sense. 

Maybe its worth trying. You will notice straight away if there is a problem, no doubt poo watch and analysis is a daily occurrence. So you can quickly pop Alfie back on the fish and rice. 

Hope it works for Alfie. Keep us all posted!


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thanks, I'm nearly scared to introduce anything new but I know I have to. Fingers crossed. Think I'll just keep going with the Prokolin for a while yet.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

EAD said:


> Poo report
> 
> Firmest its been since before colitis started.
> 
> ...


Depending on how long its been normal for, personally I wouldn't rush into changing again. I would keep her on whats working to make sure she has stabalised for longer, and then maybe introduce a bit on the new and less of the exisiting on a daily basis and maybe introduce it over week or so that way.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

Don't be tempted to rush if you aren't sure. From personal experience, it just makes things worse if their tums aren't ready yet and the colitis returns 

We like to keep Pickles settled for 2 weeks before beginning to introduce the old/new food as this seems long enough to us to settle his stomach.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok added 5gms to his brekkie, might not give any more today.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

See how he goes and just check his poos for any change


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Would those of you with experience of colitis continue with Pro-Kolin as long as the fish and rice diet?

Buying online so would need to order today or tomorrow.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

If it works, I would want to keep some handy so that if I try without unsuccessfully I could put it right quickly. Sensitive tums dont need much encouragement to become even more sensitive and that's a v slippery slope

Bionic Biotics sorted Heidi and I always have a pouch here just in case.

I would be inclined to keep the fish/rice/protexin going until you have a good few days normal output then half dose protexin and see how it goes. If everything is ok, try without but keep fish and rice going on it's own for a couple of days with good output before you try slowly adding normal food..

Slowly slowly approach is frustrating but pays off in the end


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Just a thought, but do you know for definite he's OK on fish & rice? This was our go to meal for our previous dog with a sensitive stomach, but we'd always give ProKolin at the same time. Once we saw an improved poo we moved onto Chappie, then gradually phased back in his usual food.

It was only because I ran out of his prescription diet and no local shops were open for Chappie that I had to feed him fish and rice for a meal - immediate squits! So the bland diet hadn't been working, but ProKolin masked this as it's so effective at firming up poo.

Personally, I'd try the Sensitivity Control from now. If he's not getting firm poos anyway even with ProKolin, it might be an idea to rule out the fish and rice. ProKolin is always raved about as a wonder cure because it's got such good firming qualities. We could never give our boy further doses once his poo had firmed up as the poor lad would struggle to go for days. So if he's still having ProKolin and still not having firm poos, I suspect you still have an 'issue', be it food or otherwise.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

EAD said:


> Would those of you with experience of colitis continue with Pro-Kolin as long as the fish and rice diet?
> 
> Buying online so would need to order today or tomorrow.


If these ever have bouts then I usually give a dose as soon as I see an iffy poop. then keep them on the light easily digestible resting diet usually in my case chicken no skin and boiled fresh rice and the pro kolin until its back to normal, then discontinue the Pro Kolin but keep them on the resting diet to make sure for a couple of days at least especially if its been a bad bout.
You could try bionic biotic, that you can use all the time Ive used that and found it good, and mentioned it to a neighbour whos yorkie had terrible gut problems and after he had been on it while he can now even eat foods she wouldn't have dared give him before as it would have set him off with raging diarrohea.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh so many different opinions, what to do for the best :confused5: 

Ok Royal Canin Sensitivity arrived today, should I introduce it once we've had a few days of normal poo?

Will keep on with Pro-Kolin for now and will order new tube online now. 

To answer the question of whether fish and rice agrees with him, his normal food is fish though don't think he's ever been fed white rice in food before, Burns was brown rice.

Will have a nosey at Bionic biotic.

I know you can't all tell me what to do but atm I'm getting nervous about making any change lol.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Wasn't going to say anything earlier because I didnt want to confuse you but it was Bionic Biotics that sorted Heidi. Up to trying it I was back at the vets regularly for more Protexin. She would improve but only for a short while. Once I started BB we didnt look back.
I believe they have a money back guarantee


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

It is so hard deciding what to do as everyone does things differently as every dog is different. 

We feed pickles fish and rice when he's got colitis. Usually for around 2 weeks to check he's fully recovered. We like to ensure he can have fish and rice without pro kolin so we know we have a base food he can eat that doesn't flare up his symptoms.

Although saying that, we do keep pro kolin to hand at all times. But as pennygsd says, do you definitely know that fish and rice agrees with him?

Ideally, you want to know he is fine on a base food ie. fish and rice and then introduce the new food, so you know it's the new food that's causing an upset stomach if he gets one.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Alright so should I stop the Prokolin for a few days and see how poos are, given that there's no blood or mucous?

Can reintroduce if needed.

If poos aren't great I could then try Royal Canin and Bionic Biotics.

Does that sound sensible?


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

I would personally stop the pro kolin as I think I'd want to know if the colitis was still there or whether the pro kolin was firming things up. If it reoccurs, I'd go back to the vets and if not, great, leave it a few days and then introduce the new food or gradually build it up.

I'd buy some pro kolin any way as it's certainly useful for emergencies and doesn't have a best before date. We've opened ours and it's fine even now


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok no Prokolin given today.

He did a poo this afternoon which was brown and yellow which must be due to the small amount of kibbles I gave him yesterday morning. 

It was firm too.

Let's hope for the same tomorrow.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

No Prokolin given all week and poo improving each day.

Gave him 5 gms of kibbles this morning along with rice and fish.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

EAD said:


> No Prokolin given all week and poo improving each day.
> 
> Gave him 5 gms of kibbles this morning along with rice and fish.


Glad he seems to be doing OK without the pro kolin and so far so good.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

EAD said:


> No Prokolin given all week and poo improving each day.
> 
> Gave him 5 gms of kibbles this morning along with rice and fish.


Great news! I suppose just build up the kibble slowly as you don't want to undo this progress. You can always give a bit of pro kolin if things deteriorate a bit, but sounds like he's doing well 😀


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Just back from walk and poo definitely not as good as yesterday 

Is this just a wee blip and be ok tomorrow or do I make changes........ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I hate colitis.

I have RC tinned Sensitivity here so might try him on that.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

EAD said:


> Just back from walk and poo definitely not as good as yesterday
> 
> Is this just a wee blip and be ok tomorrow or do I make changes........ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I hate colitis.
> 
> I have RC tinned Sensitivity here so might try him on that.


Not sure what Alfie's regular routine is, but Pickles definitely has softer stools in walks sometimes, we've decided down to excitement 😜


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Poo would generally be the same whether in garden or walks. 

Would I be best slowly phasing in the RC with the fish and rice?


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

EAD said:


> Poo would generally be the same whether in garden or walks.
> 
> Would I be best slowly phasing in the RC with the fish and rice?


If it was me, I'd stop the kibble and keep on with the fish and rice and no ProKolin until you've had at least a week - 10 days with no relapse on the poo front.

Only then would I phase in the Sensitivity Control.

From the looks of things it's not the fish & rice that seems to be the problem.

I know you'll be worried that fish and rice may not be the best all round nutrition for him - and probably sick to death of cooking small batches of the stuff, never mind the expense - but I always reasoned that if his tummy was turfing out then he wasn't extracting proper nutrition anyway, so I would prefer him to make full use of a less balanced food, than no use of a well balanced food, if you know what I mean.

Fingers crossed you've only encountered a small blip though.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Too late, just gave him two teaspoons of RC with his fish/rice.

I think his last softish poo was 13th.

Hope I haven't done the wrong thing.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

I doubt you've done anything wrong. RC Sensitivity Control is very bland and we actually did a straight swap onto this as this was the vet/manufacturer suggestion for severe dietary upset where you suspect it's an intolerance.

To avoid wasting it, have you thought about freezing the rest of the tin in an ice cube tray? You could monitor how things are going and just pop a couple of blocks out of the freezer if you think he's up to it. Saves having a tin open in the fridge for days on end.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

I think I would do the last as PennyGSD. You can freeze the RC food, we did this with the Arden Grange food and it was fine.

If you stick to rice and fish for 7-10 days (no pro kolin), with no relapses and soft stools, you know you have a base food which you can feed Alfie with no problems. Then, slowly add the RC food and see what happens. If it upsets him, you will know its the food.

If he gets an upset tum/softer stools on rice and fish there might be something else going on?


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you, RC won't be wasted as Ben (one of our westies) is just back from vets with bad news about westie lung, enlarged heart and spondylosis so he's going to eat it.

Will stick with fish and rice and nowt else.

It's all pants at the minute really


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok bit of update.....Alfie has been doing really well and I have gradually increased his kibble but today his poo was softer and a tad mucousy so think I'll backtrack and reduce his kibble again. Maybe I increased it too quickly.

Something I noticed is that when he's fed rice and fish he poos very little but when kibble introduced he poos more.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Just to add to your confusion sorry ! Might be worth giving plain mashed potato and the fish ? My lurcher gets colitis and I give her potato not rice and it does the trick usually. Or I sometimes use brown rice not white. I read somewhere that brown rice is more effective at absorbing liquid through the colon hence firming up the stools. Also I know some people don't particularly rate it but the only food she's any good on is Burns, have tried others but always go back to Burns. The pork and potato is supposed to be good for gut intolerance, mine are on lamb and brown rice as lamb seems to be the only thing she can tolerate. Hope your boy is ok x


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

EAD said:


> Ok bit of update.....Alfie has been doing really well and I have gradually increased his kibble but today his poo was softer and a tad mucousy so think I'll backtrack and reduce his kibble again. Maybe I increased it too quickly.
> 
> Something I noticed is that when he's fed rice and fish he poos very little but when kibble introduced he poos more.


It may be because you are feeding him less with fish and rice? We found it so difficult to know how much to feed him so just started with half a cup of rice and upped it when he was looking too skinny.

Glad he is making progress though 👍


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## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

Sorry to butt in here but was just reading through this and I dont understand why you would stop the pro biotics until things are stable for a good while. My collie was suffering from constant bouts of colitis until I changed her to a high quality wet grain free food, but a big part of her recovery was regular probiotics. She gets them 3 to 4 times a week to maintain her gut health and has for years now. And shes never had a bad attack since.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Agree with Mollypip(sorry my "likes" are playing up).

The combination of one brand, one flavour wet food and Bionic Biotics got Heidi sorted. I didnt stop BB until she was back to a varied diet and then months at half dose for maintenance. 

No treats, nothing different at all. 

I stuck with the same brand of food and gradually weaned her onto another flavour, then kept the 2 going for a while, gradually added another etc. Every upset is a set back and made her tum more sensitive. Every change is a potential upset, you dont know until you try and then it's too late. You are stuck in a loop - do you persevere with what you are feeding to avoid change and further upset or is what you are feeding causing upset:incazzato:

I had to be so careful not to rush things. Probably took a year because I kept rushing things initially. A hard lesson to learn but it paid off. 

IMO Alfie's tum will need ongoing support to get through it


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies.

I thought people had recommended earlier in thread stopping the Prokolin or should I keep him off it but try another probiotic?

No problem giving him probiotics. 

Poo last couple of days ok, today end of one was a tad soft/mucousy.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Prokolin didnt work for Heidi so I cant really say but I would give him something.


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## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

Personally I would leave him on the Prokolin for the next while and allow his tummy to calm down. Probiotics supply the good bacteria that gets destroyed when things go wrong, so leaving him indefinitely on them will only do good. Its not like they're a drug or anything. As I said Ive had my collie permanently on a maintenance dose for the past few years. Ive never used Prokolin , I use Pet Dophilus by Jarrow from iherb online, I don't see any reason to change at the moment as Prokolin is meant to be excellent. 

As mum2heidi said take things really slow, I did that with my dog too giving her nothing more than grainfree wet food and some boiled chicken as treats for months (I find Rocco from Zooplus brilliant). These days her tummy is much stronger and she can have small amounts of varied treats, but I continue to give the probiotics at least 3 times a week. If I see a change in her poo I give the probiotics everyday for awhile again and her poos get back to healthy. In fact she produces very pristine poos almost 100% of the time lol. 

Prior to all this her poos were bad, she was getting sick a lot escalating into having to stay at the vets on a drip her colitis got so bad. So probiotics and Rocco were lifesavers for us!

just editing to add : if you can feed a good wet food diet I really would try that, its more natural than dry, gentler and easier to digest, if not, definitely make sure you stay away from gluten, a lot of dogs have problems digesting gluten.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thanks again for replies.

Gave him Prokolin tonight along with fish, rice and some kibbles.

His tum prior to bile acid test was great, never any problems.

His dipped urine showed blood in it so vet has sent sample to lab to check and be cultured. He will I think be going onto antibiotics which vet said might help the colitis.

Will look at wet foods, I'm familiar with Natures Menu and Lily's Kitchen.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

Sorry to hear you are having tummy troubles again, they are never ending.

We don't give pickles pro kolin unless his stools are so soft I know he is going to become unwell. Sounds a bit funny, but he's been ill since Xmas and we can now tell the difference between one that's a bit soft and one that is the beginning of a relapse needing his medication. 

If you think his stools are becoming much softer, use some pro kolin again. I think I said to stop giving it because then you knew if it was the new food upsetting his tum. We were totally clueless about how to deal with his symptoms at first and several people of here can vouch for my endless posts. However, I found if I went with my instinct, the treatment was ok and we are now much better at managing his diet and stool situation. It is ever so frustrating that they keep getting ill though.

I am currently also giving bionic biotics, mainly as it includes b12 in the ingredients which is important for reducing the impact of bad bacteria in their tummies and a low b12 can 'invite' bacterial overloads.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you. Gave him Prokolin last night too. His first poo on walk was great, second was slightly softer and mucousy. 

Will look for Bionic Biotics today and try him on that for a while.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Trying to help Heidi I accumulated Tree Barks Powder and Kaolin (something my dogs had years ago to "firm them up").

Protexin, is a combination of good bacteria, something to soothe the gut and something to "firm things up". With a bit of natural yoghurt, I had my own protexin. 

So you can break things down if need be to suit your dog.

Bionic Biotics always works but if she became really loose, I would start with a dose of paediatric kaolin. http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/ca...aign=Product?gclid=CNa21uGM3MACFSTMtAodjiMAoQ

As mentioned earlier in the thread, this was after numerous visits to the vets. They felt I knew Heidi best and were happy for me to do this


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Bought Naturesdiet today, fish, rice and veg.

Gave him a teaspoon with fish and rice this evening.

Ordering Bionic biotic to try but will leave on Prokolin in mean time.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Naturediet is a good food but check it carefully, they have been having problems lately.
(bits of plastic in it, blown trays etc.) They are in the minority but I thought I should point it out just in case you've missed it


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thanks, no idea if I'm doing the right thing but we'll see how it goes. Have froze most of tub as we'll be using so little at a time.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

We were going to try the nature diet but were a bit put off by the reports I'd heard. In the end we plumped for the Arden grange sensitive wet and haven't looked back. He does still get ill every 2-3 months but we really struggled to find a food that agreed with him.

I hope the ND works for you.


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## Kathyvet (Aug 24, 2014)

Hi,

I haven't read through all of the posts regarding this but for recurrent colitis I would advise a senstivity/intestinal diet and it would also be worth trying Yumpro tablets- they contain probiotics and a few other ingredients which are said to help maintain a healthy intestinal lining.
I have used them in a few dogs prone to colitis long term and they really seem to help. Ideally if they work the dog would be kept on them long term. Some owners have even managed to get the dogs onto a "normal" diet and seem to think the tablets are more effective at managing the colitis than the diet......

Kathy


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Hmmmm so many different opinions.

He's still just getting a teaspoon of ND along with his fish and rice. No poo yesterday and today it was firm enough but a sort of mucousy skin on it. 

Only on a dog forum could there be so much talk about poo.

Waiting on Bionic biotic arriving so still giving him Prokolin. 

I have Royal Canin Sensitivity tins here and also Yumpro Bioactiv probiotics but what is the right thing to try????

I just want his tum right again as he hasn't been getting his milk thistle for weeks now and I'd like to get him back on it.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

They are all different so it may not be the case for you but with Heidi, the mucous is the final stage and as long as I'm v careful, we're usually up and away from there.
I would personally stick with the fish and rice until you've had a good few days solid before altering the food. Keep up the prokolin as well. If the combination is working.

As for Yumpro/BB, the decision is yours 
Perhaps save the Milk Thistle till you are sorted on either BB or Yumpro


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

I'd agree with mum2heidi. Keep him on fish and rice and the bit of ND for a few more days. If all is good, gradually up the ND and see what happens.

Good luck


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Bionic Biotics arrived today. For those who use it did you introduce gradually?

Still been giving him a little Prokolin so could change over tomorrow.

Poo over last few days been just ok.
Firm but sort of skin on it and today end was pretty soft.

Oh my god sounds like I'm getting obsessed with poo lol.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I didnt introduce BB gradually. No ill effects and worked v quickly.

As for pooh obsessing, join the club 4 years on and I'm just beginning to have a more relaxed approach


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

Pickles also had an upset tum Thursday eve. Went at 6pm when it was very soft and again at 9pm which was like water 

Glad him some pro kolin and a tablet and he's been ok so fingers crossed he's on the mend again.

So frustrating


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Over the last couple of days I've tried BB on my other two dogs. A westie who during summer has itchy skin and my rottie x whos coat is a little scurfy. She's 34kgs so only gave her quarter teaspoon Saturday and two quarter teaspoons yesterday so a fraction of what the recommended dose is. She's just had me up to do the biggest watery poo and the only thing different she had to eat was the BB. Maybe coincidental but I wonder.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I've no idea. First time I've heard any adverse effects from BB.. I always start on full dose but it's not going to suit them all. Perhaps send Pooch and Mutt and email and see what they have to say. Very good customer service and I believe a money back guarantee .

Hope the doggies are well again soon


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you I emailed this morning.

Hi there, I just bought a packet of Bionic Biotics as recommended on pet forums as my Scottie had colitis though haven't yet given him any.

I decided to try it on my westie who has itchy skin over the summer and my rottie x who has slightly scurfy skin.

Gave rottie x a quarter teaspoon on Saturday and two quarter teaspoons yesterday and this morning she had me up before 6am with awful soft cow pat like poo. Only difference over last couple of days is the Bionic Biotics.

Now she's always had a sensitive tum and is fed a dry kibble of fish and potato which suits her and we've had no tummy trouble for a long time.

Can you tell me is there some dogs who just cannot tolerate even something like Bionic Biotics?

Thanks

Her reply.....

I hope you are well and had a great weekend.

Thank you for your email as we love to hear from our customers.

Has she been ill in terms of throwing up?

Sometimes it can take a week or so for the product to fully enter the dog's system.

Please let me know how she continues on with the product.

Not really that helpful I thought.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Bit of update.

Alfie now up to about a third of a tray of Natures Diet along with fish and rice.

Poos are firm enough but still slightly mucousy.

Will just continue on as we are giving him a little Prokolin too.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Just caught up with this and am a little shocked at your response from Pooch and Mutt. Always found them much more helpful than that.

Good to hear Alfie is picking up. Heidi, is usually much better after the mucous stage, hope it's the same for him.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thanks I'm hoping it continues and he's loving the wet food.

Got another email from pooch and mutt suggesting I could try their digestion and wind product.

I won't be.

Have the bag of Bionic Biotics here, only about one teaspoon out of it if you want it?


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

It's a shame it didn't work for you. 
Wonder if it's worth chasing their money back guarantee? 
Thank you for the very kind offer but I've just bought a pouch.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Rubbish set back just now before coming up to bed. 

Put Alfie out to loo which was a runny soft cow pat type poo.

And I thought we were doing so well.

Should I just go back to fish and rice till firm again or just reduce nature's diet?


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Just back in from garden with Alfie, poo watery again.

Might just pop him to vets later.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

With the ongoing problems I think I'd want my vet to do a bit of investigating here. Can I ask why he had the bile test done in the first place? I am not overly knowledgable about dogs only their digestive problems- ie. mainly poo  it's maybe that somehow the test irritated his stomach lining/ bowels. 

Were you continuing with the pro kolin and or ND food when he was ill this morning? I think I would stop the BB. Continue with fish and ND food and the pro kolin and see what happens. If he's still ill, I'd go back to fish and rice and try introducing a different food- we love Arden Grange sensitive for Pickles, so that may one you consider. Or, simply Chappie which I've heard is good for poorly tums.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

He had the bile acid done as bloods showed his alt and alkp are elevated, have been rising for a while so decided to check liver. 

I'm not sure if it's coincidental but all dogs bar lily have had runny poo this week.

With kyla I blamed the Bionic Biotics.

With Murphy I blamed him getting some lily's kitchens kibbles which are not what he usually eats.

With Ben I blamed the trip to vets which would be out of the ordinary for him.

Could there be another reason?

Up until yesterday evenings late supper they always get, he was fed rice fish and ND. I never started him on BB. 

He was also getting a reduced amount of Prokolin.

Might not give him breakfast so if vet wants to do bloods at least he's fasted.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

Maybe they've picked up a bit of a bug if several are ill? Pop him to the vets if your instinct is he's not right.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

The others were only one or two soft poos then ok again.

Think I'll take him to vets anyway, this has been dragging on now for while.

Thanks


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Couldn't get appt until 2.40.

Just gave him Prokolin and fish and rice, left out nature's diet.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok vet suggested fasting him until tomorrow then slowly introduce Royal Canin tinned sensitivity chicken and rice. I have a tray of it so we'll see how he does.

Temperature fine, teeth not great which I know.

Got bloods done. Shocked with results.

Alt dropped down to normal from 172 and alkp dropped from about 1200 to 400 odd. 

These have been elevated since last year so what has changed??? 

I haven't even been able to give him his milk thistle or Sam.e since colitis started.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Just catching up .....

Like M2H pretty disappointed with the response from P&M as I've found them really helpful too 

I introduced it to Maisie as 1/2 dose for a couple of days (1 teaspoon) and she was fine so upped it to full dose (2 teaspoon) after that - no adverse effects at all 

Is your Rottie intolerant to cereals at all? 

The BB does contain Maize / Corn which can often be the cause of tummy troubles

It does come with a money back guarantee so I'd be asking for my money back!


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

We're now thinking for sure there's been a bug going about as all 5 dogs here have had soft or mucousy poo over the last 10 days. One of my friends dogs today also had mucousy poo.

So maybe it wasn't the BB that irritated her at all.

With regards to Alfie and the possibility of a bug I am keeping him on rice fish and Natures Diet for another few days. His poo this morning was ok. All dogs getting Prokolin atm.

I am ready for the hills and apologise for the ongoing saga you're all putting up with lol.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Ahhhh that maybe explains it - :yikes: to 5 of them with iffy tums at the same time, you have my sympathies 

Hope all are better soon

Don't ever apologise - you have no idea the number of threads I've posted about what to feed Maisie!


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thanks, as much as I could give reasons why each of them have had runny poos it's pretty coincidental isn't it.

Taking advantage of Amazons next day delivery for Prokolin anyway.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

So just been sticking with rice fish and NaturesDiet.

Good poo yesterday morning and again this morning but awful soft sloppy poo this afternoon.

My heart sinks when he has a bad one.

I'll maybe ease back with ND a bit over next few meals.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

*sigh* it's an awful disease - and sometimes there's really no reason for a flare so I'd always advise anyone against doing drastic diet changes for one or two bad poops

Take Maisie - her tum's been stable for a while now. Yesterday, fab poop in the morning but she didn't go again (about 5/7 days she will only go once rather than twice so not too unusual)

Today, fab poop again this morning & another great one when I got in from work

Just been out for our walk & as soon as I let her off lead when we got to the track, she went running off (very odd as she always looks for ball) - and she had the most horrid, huge, just pickable upable mucassy poop 

About 200m further on, she had a revolting not formed at all poop :frown2:

Nothing has changed in her diet ....


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

That's the hard bit, one poo great and next not good.

He's just went again, watery and tinged bloody at end.

I feel so responsible as I took him for bile acid test which started it all.

Can't keep fasting him.

And still the question does the ND agree with him really?

Surely if it didn't his poos would be awful all the time.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

Oh, know this feeling alright. Literally, one minute he's ok and within an hour or two, it just comes on


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Sorry - I haven't read back to the beginning of the thread, but have you considered/do you use slippery elm?

I was skeptical about it as it appeared to turn our last dog inside out, despite supposedly doing the opposite, and we have 'stressy tummy' issues with one of our current dogs and tried a small amount on her - with apparently disastrous results.

However, on the recommendation of a vet, we persevered, and the previous disastrous results were obviously a coincidence as by day 2 on a full dose with each meal we saw consistently firm poo from our girl. And we're now on day 10 of firm poo. Considering we've never had two in a row before, I'd say it's a bloody miracle!

It may not work for you as our girl doesn't appear to have food intolerance, just adrenaline affecting her as her whole life is exciting and/or nerve racking, but it's certainly worth a try - and may help to soothe the digestive system a little.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't continually starve when you get episodes, but would just revert to the light easily digestible meals. And you might find it's the bunging up effect of Prokolin that's giving you good results some days on Naturediet.

Have you considered other types of home cooking in the short term so you can get a good varied base while you're attempting to find out if Nature Diet really does suit?


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

I'll be honest in that I don't know what to do for the best.

Should I have persevered with trying him back on his original fishmongers finest kibble as I know he was fine on it before this all started?

Should I try the......

Royal Canin tins
Stay with NaturesDiet
Change from fish and rice to something else
Keep him on Prokolin 

Part or all of above?

What other home cooking? Chicken? Potato? Eggs?

Never thought about slippery elm.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I think I would be inclined to go back to the amount of fish/rice/naturediet that worked or go back to fish and rice until output is solid for a good few days. Then v slowly add the naturediet. If you get sloppy output, go back to the quantity of naturediet that worked and stick with it for a few days before increasing again.

From my experience with Heidi, I would say more change is the last thing you need and if you've had success with fish/rice/ND combo then that's the way I would go.
Your situation could of course be different but I thought it worth a mention


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

But what if it's the Prokolin that's firming him up and not the food?

I know you can't answer that though.

It's Alfies poor insides I'm messing with, god love him.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

It could quite possibly be the prokolin but that's fine. Alfie's tum will need some support for a while to get over this so keeping a tum supplement going for a couple of months is a good idea I think. Changes in food challenge an already sensitive tum even more. Keeping to the same food, lessening the amount it has to adapt will give it a better chance to strengthen with the help of prokolin iyswim


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

When we hit a really rough patch with our last boy the vet contacted the manufacturers of ProKolin to double check if there would be any issues keeping our dog on it long term, as we had all resigned ourselves to facing this, and the answer was that it would be fine. So stick with the Prokolin to give some support until this episode is well and truly in the past.

I would also add in slippery elm for it's sheer soothing properties. I'm not an expert, but can't help thinking there's got to be some considerable inflammation from all these episodes, so you need a decent spell to let things rest and recover before attempting to get back to 'dog food'. The hardest part is not trying to introduce new foods simply because you've had a day or two of good output.

I didn't mean to suggest keep chopping and changing his diet, but assumed you would be back on the fish and rice that worked for a decent period to get him settled- but I meant to then try other home cooking rather than Naturediet, as you have a question mark over Naturediet. This at least would then give you some variety to feed during future spells of upset.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you all for bearing with us and the continued advice.

I felt quite teary last night as I feel I'm not helping him but it's him that's suffering.

Anyway small amount of fish and rice with his Prokolin at 7am. Took him a short walk but no poo. Gave him another small feed of fish and rice at 9.30 before I left for work.

Will maybe try to keep his meals small, could maybe manage 6 per day if that would help. Also have another tube of Prokolin arriving today.

Will speak to my homeopathic vet about slippery elm, she had given me Sulphur though I need to check dose with her for ongoing intermittent problems.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I know it's a horrible time and can empathise with you being tearful. The key truly is to take things ridiculously slowly. Try to think of making things as easy as poss for his tum so no big changes,quantities or treats.
I found waiting 2 hours after a meal was the tell tale sign with Heidi. If I'd made a change and it stayed put that long, I could continue. 
Keep the prokolin going until he is on a normal diet for a good month or so. You may even want to give BB another go after that


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

EAD said:


> Thank you all for bearing with us and the continued advice.
> 
> I felt quite teary last night as I feel I'm not helping him but it's him that's suffering.


You are so not alone in feeling like that. I think it's the helplessness that you're doing your best to fix it, but it just doesn't work. We tried numerous foods on our previous dog in an attempt to get him off the Royal Canin Sensitivity Control. Very, very frustratingly slowly. We'd literally add 5% of the new food for a few days, then 10% for a few, then 20% for a few etc, etc. And with most foods we could get up to about 1/3 of the new food before any reaction. But once there was a reaction that was it - the smallest amount would set him off so we'd be back to the plain diet for a couple of weeks.

I remember how overjoyed I was when we got up to about 50% of a different food once, then things went wrong and I did have a little weep in the corner and it was what finally convinced me to just stick with Sensitivity Control and Chappie, and stop reading the ingredients label. The best food for your dog is the one that suits him!

Small, frequent meals suited Jack best. And like Mum2Heidi, we usually saw a reaction quite quickly, so it also suited us that there were only smaller amounts going through his system at one time - less to be ejected at speed when it does go wrong!


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you both again :thumbsup:

Slowly slowly for the foreseeable and fingers crossed.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

You will get there
I never ever thought Heidi would have a wide range of brands and flavours of wet food. We stuck religiously to WW trays one flavour for ages. Still keeping BB going, then weaned her v slowly onto another. When she was on all flavours, tried a different brand. Once she was ok, I found I could swap between those brands and flavours without weaning every time and gradually we got there.
If you spot a sign that trouble is looming (Heidi used to lick her lips a lot)go back to the previous ratio that worked and stick at it for a few days before progressing again. Sometimes you can get away without going back to 100% bland diet.

Heidi is 5. Her upset was at a year old and it was probably 9 months before she was on a varied die.t I've only recently stopped being on edge when she poohs and am delighted that she shakes off an upset like a normal dog


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

What's frustrating is that he was perfectly fine before bile acid test and could eat pretty much anything.

Anyway he has had 4 small meals already today. His poo this afternoon was good, a little soft but no mucous.

Another 2 small meals this evening.

I'm giving him about 3 tablespoons of rice per meal and third to half of a tesco value fish fillet per meal. Does that sound ok??

He was 10.2kgs I think back in July and weighed 9.8kgs on Friday so very little lost.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Are you sure you mean "tablespoons" of rice? that sounds an awful lot 6 times a day


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Yes tablespoon. You know the sort of spoon you'd eat soup or cereal with. Does it sound a lot?


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Heidi is 9kg and I dont think I would give her 3 spoons (think you may mean desert spoons) 6 times a day. Probably that much 4 times a day.

I could be wrong

If you imagine the full amount over the 6 meals, is it about what you were feeding a day before he was poorly?


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Hard to compare before he was poorly as he was just fed kibble.

Since colitis started I was feeding 4 times per day and giving him about 4 heaped dessert spoons of rice for 3 of the meals and about 2 fish fillets and about 2 dessert spoons for final meal so roughly 14 spoonfuls per day.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I would presume if you are overfeeding, output would be a bit loose. Heidi usually starts firm and ends in slop if I make that mistake.

The general RDA of wet food for 10k dog is about 400g so perhaps use that as a guide. It's better to feed less and have a settled tum than aim for too much too soon and have a set back. Slowly, slowly ..............


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thanks. I'll measure out about 14 spoonfuls of rice and 2 fish fillets in morning and see what that weighs.

Any specific rice/fish ratio?

I'm probably a bit scared of under feeding but will reduce if need be.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I think I did 50/50 but sometimes a bit more rice and less fish has firmer results.
Try not to worry too much. It's better to be a bit cautious and keep a settled tum than worry about under feeding, balanced diet etc. Once the tum is settled, that will come


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Curiosity got the better of me and I weighed food when doing their supper.

14 heaped spoonfuls of rice is about 330 grams and two fish fillets are about 100 grams so at 430 grams I wasn't far out but a lot more rice than fish so can change that tomorrow.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Oh well done, not that far out then.

If out put is good on the current rice/fish combo I wouldn't change anything until it's consistent for a few days. Could be the rice is holding things together  Then slowly aim for 50/50.

Hope all goes well


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you 

I'm going to go with 6 meals of about 2 spoonfuls of rice and half a fish fillet and Prokolin twice per day.

Another day and fingers crossed.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Don't want to just post when things going wrong so quick update......

All poos have been good except for one slightly soft, so happy with that. Sticking with 6 small meals per day and twice daily Prokolin. 

Reading about peoples problems with NaturesDiet and wondering if it's wise to try Alfie back on it again.

Anyway that's a bit down the line.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

So 10 days since bloody poo and things still going ok.

Couple of softer poos but nothing to get alarmed about.

I'm thinking of trying to introduce a dog food into the fish and rice but what food is the question????

Worried about trying Natures Diet if they are having quality issues.

Should I stick with trying a wet food instead of the fishmongers finest kibble he was fed prior to the colitis starting???

Fishmongers finest do wet food trays too of white fish and potato.

Any advice appreciated xx


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

With just rice and fish for such a long time, I'd be adding a vitamin/mineral supplement. There'd be some nutrients not sufficiently present in fish and rice (particularly if white rice).


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

If he's doing well on the fish & rice, I'd be tempted to introduce a complete wet to it that's the same ie Burns do a fish & rice wet pouch

Potato is adding another ingredient & unless absolutely 100% solid all the time (which it doesn't sound as if he is), I'd not add that just now


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thanks for replies.

What vitamins/minerals would you suggest adding?

Will take a look at Burns too.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

EAD said:


> Will take a look at Burns too.


Penlan Farm Range - Fish, Brown Rice & Vegetables Moist dog food | Burns Pet Food

Burns launches new food into penlan range

You may need to get it from them direct - it has been released but many retailers don't have it yet

Their CS is great - they sent me a couple of pouches for Maisie to try 

Needless to say, she loves it


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you. 

Just back from walk and poo this morning was pretty soft.

He's still getting Prokolin everyday.

Just checked back as I've been keeping note of what I'm feeding him and his poos and he's had a few softer poos over last 10 days.

Last lot of days it's been between 35 and 40% fish daily with rest rice.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh am I doing the right thing feeding him fish and rice seeing as poos aren't perfect?????

Is he missing out on important nutrients??

Can you tell I'm doubting what I'm doing!!!


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Not sure what's in the Prokolin but Bionic Biotics is a broad spectrum vit and min supplement as well. If Prokolin is the same, you will be ok.

I would definitely steer clear of kibble (just my opinion) and use wet but v v slowly


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

EAD said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Just back from walk and poo this morning was pretty soft.
> 
> ...


There used to be a really got vitamin and mineral powder for dogs, which after years and years was discontinued called SA37 Ive had a look and this is an equivalent that looks as if its still available, its got calcium in it too and looks pretty complete, it should help while you are feeding fish and rice.

SF-50 Powder

If and when you want to wean him off the fish and rice or eventually personally I would try him on maybe a wet food first, like the fishmongers more natural wet ranges. You could try adding some to the fish and rice gradually.


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

I would also stick to introducing a wet food. The fishmongers wet sounds ok as he is on fish & rice at the moment. Just introduce it slowly. Pickles was first ill last Christmas. He now gets 2 cans of Arden Grange fish and rice a day with bionic biotics and extra rice if he's looking a bit skinny. We'd love to put him on kibble as it's cheaper, less smelly, but we don't dare unless we end up backtracking and it makes him ill.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Fishmongers is fish and potato.

Thank you, will look at suggestions.

Sorry for slight panic attack, I think I'm doing the right thing then worry I'm harming him somehow by feeding him wrong thing.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

The question in my head atm is do I need to make changes NOW?

We've had a period on fish/rice and Prokolin with firm and soft poos.

Do I continue feeding that until I have a period of just firm poos? How long might that be?

Or do I try now to introduce a new wet food and/or stay on Prokolin?

Sorry I know you all dont have the answers, Im just typing what Im thinking.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Is it the fish that I should change and maybe try Royal Canin chicken & rice Sensitivity like the vet recommended??

So many options and what is the right thing to do?


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I think I did 50/50 but sometimes a bit more rice and less fish has firmer results.


I wonder am I feeding more fish now than before I started weighing it out and is that why we've been getting slighter softer poos.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Does he seem better on fish then chicken or other meat? if you get the best results on fish then I would stick with that or at least for now until he is more stabalised still.

You could start to add a little bit of commercial food in very small amounts spread over a fair amount of time and monitor that closely, not moving onto the next amount until you know his OK on the existing amount for a few days.
The only problem with this is that if its a pack of wet food, you might waste some, its probably Ok refrigerated for a few days though I would have thought.
Sometimes its hard knowing what to do for the best, but sometimes the only way is trial and error. If you do make only small changes gradually over a decent period of time, in theory at least it should help him adjust better then having a huge change at once and a big fall out problem.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

EAD said:


> I wonder am I feeding more fish now than before I started weighing it out and is that why we've been getting slighter softer poos.


That could be the case as rice will firm things up. Def keep a tum supplement going. You could either reduce the fish and get firm pooh established or reduce the fish a bit more and add a little fishmongers wet. Just the tiniest bit and see how the land lies

I used to freeze wet in usable chunks.

Dont do anything in panic mode. If in doubt, stay as you are until you 
can think it through rationally. As long as you remember to make any changes very slowly and go back to what worked at the first sign of trouble, you should be ok.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Agree that the poops could be softer if you've started feeding a higher ratio of fish to rice

Have you tried him with potato before & is he fine with it?

If not, for the wets, I'd stick to either Burns or Arden Grange as they're rice and not potato

I know every dog is different BUT Maisie's 'safe' food is fish & rice - she can have every type of fish we've tried so far & rice and she's 100% fine on it

I tried fish & potato and .... oh boy!


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Awwww thanks again for helpful replies.

Im ready for the hills today, Alfie vomited a little bile this morning and now Kyla just ate her dinner and brought it all back up again, then proceeded to eat it before I even noticed she'd been sick.

Dogs......who'd have them lol.

Anyway i'll try and answer questions......

Sled dog hotel.....Alfie has really only been fed fish since all this started, never really tried chicken or any other meat so dont know how he'd do on something else.

Prior to the colitis he has ate in the past a variety of meats as he was fed raw for a while.

I suppose in my head im thinking if his poos aren't 100% on fish/rice, if I then start introducing a commercial dog food and his poos still aren't right, how will I know if its the fish/rice or the dog food that's irritating him?

Just got another tube of Prokolin so will continue with that.

Mum2Heidi......are you aware the Fishmongers is potato and fish?
Would I be better introducing a fish/rice dog food rather than potato?

Lilyslass......Alfies original kibble was fish and potato, havent tried him on potato since colitis started.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Ahhhhh it might well be worth trying him with a fish & potato one then 

Do you know what set his Colitis off?

ETA WW used to do a fish tin but seem to have launched a new one Wainwright's Adult Salmon with Potato 395g | Pets At Home (they might have it in store)


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

It all started after he had to eat a fatty meal for a bile acid test in the vets.

Prior to that poos were perfect on Fishmongers finest fish and potato kibble.

He also did very well when fed raw too.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> *That could be the case as rice will firm things up*. Def keep a tum supplement going. You could either reduce the fish and get firm pooh established or reduce the fish a bit more and add a little fishmongers wet. Just the tiniest bit and see how the land lies
> 
> I used to freeze wet in usable chunks.
> 
> ...


Not if the dog is rice-intolerant; one of mine is. With consistently soft poos, even with pro-kolin, it could be worth trying potato instead of rice. Bland foods based on rice are often seen as a panacea for stomach issues, but if rice is one of the triggers it's not going to improve.

The vitamin supplement suggested by SDH should be fine.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Do you mean just to boil/mash ordinary potato?

Or could I use sweet potato?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Just read the last few pages of this and can't believe you're still having problems - poor Alfie and poor you - you must both be at your wits end


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I would have thought if rice was an issue, it would have caused more problems in the time scale than a couple of loose poohs here and there. 

That said, for me rice was never a problem but changes to quickly or too soon on an already sensitive tum. So I cant comment on rice intolerance.

Hope OP gains something that helps from our experiences.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Having slept on it I think today I'll see how his poo is this morning and if ok I'll introduce very slowly fishmongers finest fish and potato.

Could try to start with 2.5% which would be about 10 grams daily and go from there.

No idea if that's the right thing to do but I think we need to do something.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

EAD said:


> Do you mean just to boil/mash ordinary potato?
> 
> Or could I use sweet potato?


Yes, either sweet or 'normal' potatoes. Boil, steam (better for retaining nutrients) or bake.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

One thing I just remembered seeing on one of Dr Dodds health blogs that may help is giving pumpkin. Has to be plain pumpkin though you need to be careful its not the pie filling with added things. Have a read, its all explained on the link below. I had forgotten about it until Burrowzigs post about sweet potato.

Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Pumpkin: Why is it such a popular treatment for diarrhea?


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you, will read up about pumpkin.

Pondering now whether to try Burns pouches, they're lower meat content but still a good food.

I know our local Jollyes stock it.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I would have thought if rice was an issue, it would have caused more problems in the time scale than a couple of loose poohs here and there.
> 
> That said, for me rice was never a problem but changes to quickly or too soon on an already sensitive tum. So I cant comment on rice intolerance.
> 
> Hope OP gains something that helps from our experiences.


This dog has more than a couple of loose poos here and there!

With Ziggy, she had some loose poos and, once or twice a week, a gurgling gut. Nothing really serious, but I changed her food to rice free and she was cured overnight.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Did you ever try the slippery elm? I'm still raving about it. We started ours on it on 19th September and it's been an absolute miracle. Her issue was obviously 'stressy' tummy as she's a full on nervy and excitable girl, but now it's a thing of the past whereas prior to Slippery Elm we'd only had a handful of decent poos in nearly a year of having her. For the last 3 weeks she's been on a full and very varied raw diet with just a small scoop of the wonder powder with each meal.

She's also seems to have gained a considerable amount in that short time. Prior to starting the SE she was sleek and muscled, with a well defined waist and you could just see about see the outline of her back rib.

3 weeks later with no difference in the volume of food and while you can just about feel her ribs, you can't see them at all, and when viewed from above she's lost her visible waist.

I know it may not work for everyone, but it certainly helped us.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Apologies for taking so long to reply.

No I never tried slippery elm but I am giving him Sulphur remedy twice per day every other day that I got from my homeopathic vet.

He is also getting Prokolin twice per day and atm still fish and rice.

His poos over the last 6 or so days have been great apart from a couple that were a little mucousy.

So im going to continue on with what we're doing for another while and decide what to do from there. We definitely have a lot better poos than not so I think we're on the right track.

Vet mentioned about introducing say chicken as the next ingredient and then maybe potato rather than going straight onto a dog food.

Only an idea and something to think about.

Burns did send me a sample pouch so we have it here too.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

I have a new bag of slippery elm if you want it

I got it to try for Maisie but it was just as I was making progress with her tum & I never needed to give it a try

Happy to post if you want to give it a bash


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

Another vote for slippery elm here, it is an amazing thing, helps soothe the tummy so much. Mine has suffered horribly with Colitis in the past, with some careful adjustments to his diet , improved quality of food and slippery elm for flare ups, we are doing ok. Good luck, it's often a hard and long road to discovering what is affecting them, but I am sure you'll get there x


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Thank you Lilylass 

I think we'll stick with what we're doing atm as poos are fine.

I introduced cooked chicken (reduced rice and fish) a few days ago and so far so good.

Still getting Prokolin (daily) and Sulphur (every other day).

Fingers crossed it continues.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Hello all. It's been a long time since I posted as things been going the right way until now.

He was doing fine on rice, potato, chicken and fish (all cooked) then I introduced small amounts of Burns fish pouches (pouch was sent to trial from burns) Was ok but then I struggled to buy it locally or online so I got him the Burns egg pouches. He's been getting about three quarters of a pouch along with cooked chicken.

Prior to introducing Burns his poos were good, sometimes bit soft but yesterday it was softer and this morning back to cow poo consistency. 

I had reduced his Prokolin to a small amount just in the morning.

So we'll take a step backwards though do we try with egg pouches or go with another food?

Do I up his Prokolin again?

Is the Prokolin helping or as someone said way back that it's binding him and making me think his poos are ok?

All I fed him this morning was teeny bit of chicken and potato to give him his homeopathic Sulphur and gave him full dose of Prokolin.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I would go back to what worked food wise and forget Burns or anything else atm.
When Heidi had her ongoing upset, I found myself back at the vets regularly for protexin. When I tried her with Bionic Biotics she was much better. Her tum was more resilient and I was able to make the slow changes back to normal food (albeit wet not dry) I used WW trays with BB gradually weaning her onto different flavours and then reduced BB to half dose as maintenance for quite a while. After months, it was our first real progress.

BB is always in my cupboard but very seldom needed. Heidi's tum is like any other dog's now and she shakes off upset normally. Something I never thought would happen

I believe Yumpro is good but not tried it. (Treebarks Powder didnt work for her.)


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

I worry he's not getting enough from just home cooked chicken, rice, fish and potato.

I'll go back to that and up his Prokolin again, then could try Bionic Biotics.

My cupboards look like the vets cupboards and pets at home shelves.

It's frustrating and worrying when he has a step back especially so long after it all started. Maybe he'll never be right again.

Kyla had to have antibiotics a few weeks back and she ended up with slimey poos too though back to normal now. So many things can upset them. 

Thank you xx


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

No sure about prokolin but BB is a broad spec vit/min supplement as well.
I used to wish I could have the Biotics without the Bionics
Heidi is like a little pocket rocket on it


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Tango has bouts of vomiting , the vet says this is colitis , even though no diarrhoea. My cupboards look like a pet pharmacy ! She's on Bionic Biotic at the moment ( well, long term ) and I tried her with Dorwest Digestive supplement which seemed to soothe her stomach. During a bout she gets to the point where she can't even keep water down because her stomach is so irritated but I found a 1/4 tablet of PeptoBismol after food helped tremendously. She NEVER loses her appetite !


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok so poo this morning was a lot better.

Couple of questions......

Would you try burns egg pouches once he's settled again or change to a different food?

Would you start BB when still giving Prokolin?

He's had potato, fish and chicken along with full dose of Prokolin and Sulphur since yesterday.


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## El Cid (Apr 19, 2014)

My 10 month old border collie has been having very soft and bloody poos, for 3 weeks, been to the vets once so far, it eems to be getting better, then back to runny poos.
just reading the thread, I just hope we get back to normal soon.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

EAD said:


> Ok so poo this morning was a lot better.
> 
> Couple of questions......
> 
> ...


Great he is getting back on track. 
I probably wouldnt mix BB and Prokolin as I believe they do the same thing but you could always ask Pooch and Mutt, they are v helpful.
Not sure re the Burns egg pouches. I've never used their wet food. I found with Heidi once something had upset her, it was best avoided for a while.

It's hard because you dont know unless you try, but when you try and it doesn't work, you kick yourself


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Hmmm I think I'll leave him on potato, fish and chicken for a few days with full Prokolin and Sulphur.

Then I should maybe look for a potato and chicken food given that he seems to do ok on that when I cook it.

Any recommendations for potato/chicken wet food?


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

Is Alfie ok on fish? We use Arden Grange sensitive tins which are potato and white fish. Ness from Arden Grange is very helpful and can send you a tin to try as a sample. It's the only commercial food which managed to Pickles on after his ongoing tummy troubles.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

When I'm cooking for him he gets half potato and then quarter fish and quarter chicken.

Fish appears to agree with him ok.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Simpsons do a wet food with chicken and potato.

Could maybe get a tin and try it.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok ends up local stockist of Simpsons is only a few miles away from the vets where the dogs get acupuncture and water treadmill sessions so popped up after our appt this morning and got a few tins to try. Fingers crossed again.

Will keep him on home cooked till start of week and make sure all is settled and go from there.

Might also stop the Prokolin from now and see how he does and think about trying BB.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Wee update......

Alfie is now getting 30% Simpsons food along with potato and a little cooked chicken breast and so far poos are good.

Slowly slowly increasing Simpsons and decreasing the chicken.

Fingers crossed it continues.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Vitalin maintenance is chicken and potato and grain free, also reasonable price for grain free food.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Blooming heck think I put the scud on poor Alfie as his poo was like cow pat this morning.

This is truly a horrid condition. 

Going to add a little BB and see if that helps.


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## El Cid (Apr 19, 2014)

El Cid said:


> My 10 month old border collie has been having very soft and bloody poos, for 3 weeks, been to the vets once so far, it eems to be getting better, then back to runny poos.
> just reading the thread, I just hope we get back to normal soon.


Lola is now 100% ok, it did take around three weeks, but now eating normally.
I didnt do anything special, altho I did stop her eating the food that people put out for the foxes.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Another update, this is getting to be more of a diary.

I've been slowly reducing potato and chicken breast and increasing Simpsons.

He ate some of those little worm soil mounds the other day on our walk and since that poos are a bit mucousy and tinged grey on outside but firm enough, actually since the cow pat they haven't been just as good as before.

I'm not changing anything food wise and continuing to give him BB.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Ok now I'm myself a bit......

Poos last couple of days are firm but like a dryer mucous/skin on outside.

Am I wrong to just continue on as we are?

Is the now firm poos even though mucousy on outside a step forward from loose poos?

Should I have him back to vets?

Head vet nurse told me last week about puppies taking months to fully clear from colitis.


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## Dietspam (Dec 26, 2014)

EAD said:


> Ok now I'm myself a bit......
> 
> Poos last couple of days are firm but like a dryer mucous/skin on outside.
> 
> ...


My Vet gave me some antibiotics for my dog when i had him at the vet for his vac. Has yours had any?


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

No he has never had antibiotics for the colitis.

He is due to go to the vets in the new year to have blood taken to check titres so will speak to them about the mucousy poo. 

Because his liver enzymes have been elevated in the past my vet wouldn't just give antibiotics willy nilly.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Hello all, Alfie has been doing great and I had him off potato and chicken so just fed Simpsons tins.

He had lost weight so I upped his food and added wholewheat pasta but I think I have upset his tum as today his poo was like cow pats with mucous.

His bloods showed elevated liver readings again so not sure if weight loss is due to colitis or not feeding him enough or something else.

Think I should have just stuck to the Simpsons and increased it just a little.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Us again 

Alfie was at the vets this morning as he had cow pat poo last night, early hours of this morning, again when we got up and when we arrived at the vets.

Vet checked him over, she suggests starting him on Prokolin again for a few days along with RC Sensitivity or Hills i/d then if things settle change him onto Hills l/d for his liver as readings at last blood test (9th Jan) were elevated.

Hes been getting Zentonil and liquid milk thistle since 15th Jan again.

All these RC and Hills foods are really not what I want to feed any of the dogs but I suppose theres no point going to the vets and not listening to anything they say and what I am doing with Alfie isnt working right anyway or we wouldnt be at the vets.

I have been keeping a diary of everything he has ate and his poos and can see he has had three cow pat incidents since 17th Dec and each of those times he has vomited bile as well.

Rest of the time his poos have either been good or slightly mucous covered.


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

Oh you are having a bad time with all this do hope you get things sorted and the poor dog gets better he must be fed up with it by now.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Positive update 

Alfie is still being fed the RC tinned Sensitivity and apart from the odd tiny bit of mucous his poos are good.

Last bloods showed a little improvement but continuing to get milk thistle.

Part of poo sample results back all clear, still waiting on some.

Will keep him on the RC if that is what is agreeing with him.


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