# Siamese & a moggy



## Rachel87 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hey guys 

Today iv taken in a very heavily pregnant blue point siamese. Her owner didnt want her anymore due to the fact she is working all the time & doesnt spend alot of time at home & also because she is expecting kittens. I new that having her home with me she would be looked after & given alot of affection as we are a cat loving family. She is settling in nicly & is very talkative.

She has mated outside with a moggy her owner presumes & i would say she has about 2 weeks left at the very most!

I have grown up with siamese in my family so know a fair bit about there chacteristics BUT.. nothing when it comes to them having young, im just wondering if she has mated with a moggy & she herself is a pure bred blue point siamese will the kittens be ok? & are they likly to take after the mums gene? will they have any complications due to the fact that shes not mated with another siamese?

Any tips and advice would be really appreated 

Thank you


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## munchkinpie (Oct 20, 2011)

cant offer any advice but weldone for taking her on.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Well done for taking on this girl  Such a shame that her owner did not have her neutered 

The problems if she has mated with a moggy could be that the kittens will be large and she may need a ceasarian or that the male was carrying FiV or Feline leukemia in which case she could be infected as could the kittens 
It is doubtful that the kittens will be colourpoint as the male would need to be carrying the colourpoint gene


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

Has she had kittens before? You are bound to worry about things but nature is a wonderful thing, Im sure everything will be fine, just make sure you have a vets number handy. No need for intervention unless she is very tired or is pushing for a long time without success. I'm sure it will be a wonderful experience for you both!


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

I'll leave the advice up to our experts but just want to say good luck!!! and cant wait to see photos of these 1/2 siamese babies


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## BshLover84 (May 6, 2012)

Aww can't believe these people let their cats out then once pregnant gets rid!!! I'm like you and have a heavily pregnant cat that her owner didn't want, this is her 3rd litter, she will be spayed after all this, spent most her life "up the duff" poor girl.

Hope all goes well with your new kitty.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Most likely they will be black or tabby - if you are 'lucky' she will have mated a red tom and then you will get torties and blacks (maybe mixed with tabby) it is unlikely that the male was either colour-point or carried cp or blue but it is possible - my Presto is supposedly half siamese - looks nothing like one, doesn't act like one, has absolutely no brains, and is very very quiet - he squeaks not miaows but . . . he looks like this (it was more obvious as a kitten but not anymore)


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## Rachel87 (Sep 8, 2010)

Aww your kitty is gorgous how sweet  she is very young! she is just over 10moths old! her date of birth on her certificate is 19/08/2011. This will be her first litter so i hope she is ok through being so young, bless her. Her first night here went very well, shes really taken to me her name is Bella  shes very chatty & she is eating like a horse her ownder was just feeding her buscuits & i think shes a little under weight but iv stocked up on all thats needed & want to boost her up so shes fit and ready for the birth. 

Im going to add some pics of her & just wondering if you guys can tell me what you think on how many weeks she might be, i can feel the kittens moving around quite alot when i touch her tummy, also her teets are big & pink & look filled with milk so i dont think she has very long to go.

On her certificate her mum was a seal point siamese & her dad was a lilac siamese... it says she is a chocolate siamese does this sound about right? wouldnt both parents had to have been chocolate? x


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## Rachel87 (Sep 8, 2010)

http://www.petforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=92408&stc=1&d=1340801292


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## Rachel87 (Sep 8, 2010)

Right lol that took me a while to get the hang off lol... up loading a picture... here are some more... of her tum xx

http://www.petforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=92409&stc=1&d=1340801418

http://www.petforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=92409&stc=1&d=1340801418

http://www.petforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=92411&stc=1&d=1340801543


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

She looks close - keep an eye on her - only being 10 months now and not knowing who dad is she may struggle. Make sure you have the vets number nearby in case she needs a caesar. Don't let her actively push for more than 1/2 an hour without getting advice. 

Yes she can be chocolate from a seal and a lilac - lilac is dilute chocolate anyway, and the seal just need to carry the recessive chocolate gene. What was the seals mum and dad's colours?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

She is lovely and looks very close to having them.
If you can make a nest for her she may be happy enough to have them in there for you. Somewhere warm and draught free lined with old towels. I also use a large fruit box which can be thrown away afterwards and line it with puppy pads to absorb any mess.
If she doesn't like your chosen nest make sure she has the kittens somewhere that is accessible while she is giving birth in case she needs assistance


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Chances are high that they will be black. If you're unlucky they might be black and white. If you're lucky you might get ticked tabbies. You'd have to be very lucky to get anything else I'm afraid (except torties if Dad is ginger). Chances are she will give birth without major problems and that the kittens will be absolutely fine, large and healthy.

Liz


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Rachel87 said:


> http://www.petforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=92408&stc=1&d=1340801292


Beautiful!! :001_wub:

She will give you beautiful kittens whatever they look like! Siamese are such good mums


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## Rachel87 (Sep 8, 2010)

mum was a seal, dad is a lilac, there a list of all the back grounds and it goes way way back so all her generations are siamese. Has anyone here got siamese that have had kittens? just wondering if there very different from say your normal cat when it comes to mothering? Also any tips and advice for the siamese would be greatly appreated, i have read loads but its always nice to hear things from people with the actuly breeds x


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

I've got nothing useful to say, but I did want to say well done for taking her on and good luck to you both. She's so beautiful--such a wise face.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I have two Siamese breeding queens and they are both good mums  but I do think most cats are. They like me to be with them while they give birth, just to stroke and talk to them - usually for several hours before hand :rolleyes5: Siamese can have large litters - up to 10 kittens - though my largest litter has been 6 and my younger girl only had 2 
There will be plenty of people here when your lovely Bella gives birth so don't worry about asking for any advice  You'll find a sticky at the top of the page with information on the things you might need for the birth but apart from anti-bac gel and disposable gloves (the thin latex type) I've never needed anything.
If she wants to eat the placenta that's fine but check that you have placentas for each kitten.
Can't wait to see what colour these little ones will be :yesnod:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I've a friend who had a BSH and another who has Siamese, and there isn't really much difference except the Siamese seem more hormonal. But that might be partly because the friend with the Siamese has a lot of cats.


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

wow she is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge!!!!!!!
but she is so very gorgeous:001_wub: Will you be keeping any of the kittens?


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## Rachel87 (Sep 8, 2010)

Thanks for the advice everyone, she has her own room, with a tray, food down constantly, toys, her box, lots of blankets & comfy bits around the room for her... mostly she just likes to be next to me but wonders in and out of there when she fancys some quiet time i guess. Shes eating loads! so far today 4 pouches! iv been giving her kitten pouches as iv read its good to put mums on kitten food before they have there kittens, tried her with some iams & she just turned her nose up at those! 

She looks so uncomfertable though bless her, where shes such a slim petite build & she has this huge belly she seems quite uncomfertable.

I havnt a clue how many she will have i cant even make a guess, whats the most generaly known for a siamese on there first litter anybody know? 

Im not sure yet i may do, it depends on how many she has, just going to take each day as it comes, if not i have plenty of family who would give them good homes.

Shes still not popped yet, i wish i new how many weeks she was x


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## Rachel87 (Sep 8, 2010)

well here is an update.... 

Mrs has been showing no signs at all of giving birth so i was thinking maybe she had about 1 week left. 
Earlier she went to lay on my little boys bed who is 6... Me & my other half was in our bedroom watching tv...
About an hour later I herd a noise & i new something was going on so i ran into my sons room to find him fast asleep & Mrs having kittens, we moved little man into our room...

There was 2 kittens born & they were both in there sacks still with the after birth attached & she was just looking at them  so we got to work, unfortunatly one wasnt breathing we did try everything we could but it was to late, the other however was fine... as she began to have more i was noticing that she wasnt doing anything with them when they were born & she didnt touch the after births ither i find her behavour so odd, could this be perhaps because she is so young? she kept trying to sit on my lap to have the kittens too, she didnt lick the kittens, clean them up.. she didnt do anything... 

She had 4 quite quickly & after that showed no signs of having any more however i no she still has some more in there because i can feel them moving around & shes constantly puring...

Iv had to lay her down in the box & put all the kittens on her so they can feed as she was just walking around the room meowing & looking quite confused, since laying her in the box & putting all the kittens on her she has stayed there and they have started feeding thank god.

I feel terrible about the little one that didnt make it, is it quite common to have a still born in a litre or is there something perhaps we could have done if we was there when it was born?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Congrats on the surviving kittens - as she is young it is quite normal for them not to really have any idea as to what to do. It's like asking a ten yr old to look after a baby. 

It is possible that what you are feeling is the womb (which is split into two horns), bladder and intestines all settling down again - though occasionally kittens are born up to 24 hours later - however, mum normally wont settle until all kittens are born. The fact that she is feeding is great. 6 is a big litter for a young first time-er. 

You will probably never know about the first little one - had you been there it may have survived or it may not - these things happen. You can't blame yourself. And yes, sometimes one does make it, that's life. But you have 5 little ones that you can now dote on. 

And now we need pictures to go 'ahhh' over!:biggrin::biggrin:


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Congrats on the new arrivals, and such a shame about the little one you lost, but it sounds like you did everything you could.



Just an aside, have you contacted this girl's breeder? They would want to know she's been taken on by someone else and has had a litter.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_Hope mum and babies are doing well, looking forward to pics once things settle down, _


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## Rachel87 (Sep 8, 2010)

she is still feeding which im so happy about, shes not really cleaning them atm though, she finaly had the last one at 8am but unfortunatly it was a still born & was half the size of the other kittens very very small, its so sad she has lost 2 but as you say & i agree its a large litre for such a young cat & especaly her first litre & the main thing is that she is feeding them & is well herself. There are 2 black & white kittens & 2 that look kind of tortashell colour there nothing like her so they must have taken after the dad or dads lol x 

I tried to contact the breeder as i wanted to let her know i was looking after her and that she was expecting but i havent been able to find any contact number for her & her address is quite far from me i may writ her a letter and send her some pictures i thought if i were a breeder i would like to know about all my animals & that they were safe and well x


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Rachel87 said:


> she is still feeding which im so happy about, shes not really cleaning them atm though, she finaly had the last one at 8am but unfortunatly it was a still born & was half the size of the other kittens very very small, its so sad she has lost 2 but as you say & i agree its a large litre for such a young cat & especaly her first litre & the main thing is that she is feeding them & is well herself. There are 2 black & white kittens & 2 that look kind of tortashell colour there nothing like her so they must have taken after the dad or dads lol x
> 
> I tried to contact the breeder as i wanted to let her know i was looking after her and that she was expecting but i havent been able to find any contact number for her & her address is quite far from me i may writ her a letter and send her some pictures i thought if i were a breeder i would like to know about all my animals & that they were safe and well x


Great to hear mother and surviving babies are well, such a shame about the two that passed 

Good idea about writing a letter, I would do that asap


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

It was going to be incredibly unlikely that they took after mum - the pointing gene is rare and you need two copies of it - one from each parent to be a pointed cat - the tortie kittens will be girls - sounds like she mated with a red boy.


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## Rachel87 (Sep 8, 2010)

They are so cute & beautifull. I didnt think they would be like her but you always wonder aye, as you never know what they will be like, all four look different, when you say a red boy, are you meaning ginger, tortie ect i didnt know all tortys are girls how unusaul saying that when i think of it i have never known a torty boy...

Are they likly to carry any traits of mum do you think, big ears, loud meows, blue eyes ect ect aww i wonder what they will be like in a few weeks when there moving around a little more.

Im so happy there ok x 

I do apologise for my terrible grammer & spellings its just awfull x


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Not the blue eyes maybe they will get mums shape time will tell.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rachel87 said:


> They are so cute & beautifull. I didnt think they would be like her but you always wonder aye, as you never know what they will be like, all four look different, when you say a red boy, are you meaning ginger, tortie ect i didnt know all tortys are girls how unusaul saying that when i think of it i have never known a torty boy...
> 
> Are they likly to carry any traits of mum do you think, big ears, loud meows, blue eyes ect ect aww i wonder what they will be like in a few weeks when there moving around a little more.
> 
> ...


Spelling - there is a nice little button top right (abc over a tick) that will check that for you. 

Blue eyes - no, mum has them because she has colourpoint markings. Any colourpoint kittens would be born white and you don't have any that are.

Big ears, loud voice - bigger and louder than average are quite possible, as is an athletic build.

Yes, red is the 'proper' name for ginger. When the tom is red, all the girls are torties.

Best thing is to post some photos.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Congratulations on the new arrivals and sorry you had two that did not make it  -very sad but it does happen.
I'm glad to hear that mum has settled down with the kittens now and hope she continues to be a good mum to them.
Pictures will be very much appreciated once they are all settled


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Aww congratulations on your little 1/2 Siamesers! Dying to see photos!

Now, question to breeders if one of these kittens was mated to a purebred Siamese would you get colour point kittens and look Siamese?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

MollyMilo said:


> Aww congratulations on your little 1/2 Siamesers! Dying to see photos!
> 
> Now, question to breeders if one of these kittens was mated to a purebred Siamese would you get colour point kittens and look Siamese?


Only if one of the kittens was carrying the colour-point gene. Both parents need copies of the gene to get colour points


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

lymorelynn said:


> Only if one of the kittens was carrying the colour-point gene. Both parents need copies of the gene to get colour points


Ah very interesting, so even though their mum is pure bred siamese carrying the colour point gene, these kittens might not be carrying it as the dad was non colour point and that gne was more dominant? It's all fascinating!!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MollyMilo said:


> Ah very interesting, so even though their mum is pure bred Siamese carrying the colour point gene, these kittens might not be carrying it as the dad was non colour point and that gne was more dominant? It's all fascinating!!


No, all kittens will be carrying colourpoint, and if one of them mated with a Siamese then on average 1/2 the kittens would be colourpoint. However they would probably not look like a good-quality Siamese - they are unlikely to have the right ear set, eye shape & set and overall type (shape). Eye colour may not be as good as a purebred as well - lots of selective breeding has gone into those lovely bright Sapphire eyes.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MollyMilo said:


> Ah very interesting, so even though their mum is pure bred siamese carrying the colour point gene, these kittens might not be carrying it as the dad was non colour point and that gne was more dominant? It's all fascinating!!


Colourpoint is a form of partial albinoism - the cat develops more colour on the cooler bits of it's anatomy, and has blue eyes. This version of the gene is recessive to normal colour - two copies turns a black cat into a seal-point cat.

So, a black cat might not have any copies, or it might have one copy. A colourpoint cat must have two copies of the gene.

The Siamese mum doesn't carry colourpoint, she IS colourpoint.

(this is the simple version ignoring Burmese colouring)


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Colourpoint is a form of partial albinoism - the cat develops more colour on the cooler bits of it's anatomy, and has blue eyes. This version of the gene is recessive to normal colour - two copies turns a black cat into a seal-point cat.
> 
> So, a black cat might not have any copies, or it might have one copy. A colourpoint cat must have two copies of the gene.
> 
> ...


Amazing! Thanks for that orienalslave!

I think i need to give up human nursing and study cat genetics


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## louise cat crazy lady (Feb 1, 2011)

I have a 1/2 siamese cat called Samson. His mum was an apricot point. His miaow sounds the same as my siamese cat and he is very clever. Interestingly i he and my siamese and oriental hang out all the time, he is not interested in my full moggies. 
Samson 

























Hats off to you for taking your girl on. Such a shame about the 2 who didn't make it but i imagine it would have been to much for her with that amount of kittens.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

louise cat crazy lady said:


> I have a 1/2 siamese cat called Samson. His mum was an apricot point. His miaow sounds the same as my siamese cat and he is very clever. Interestingly i he and my siamese and oriental hang out all the time, he is not interested in my full moggies.
> Samson
> 
> 
> ...


Aww he is gorgeous! I can see the Siamese glint in his eyes!


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