# Puppy buying help - Imported puppy



## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

Hello. I'm not sure if this is in the right place. I thought breeders will know or might have heard about imported puppies and papers.

I've been looking to buy a pug puppy for a very very long time now.
I've found a puppy I like the look of, healthy looking and true to the breed, and emailed the breeder for more information.
I was told the puppies are KC registed but the papers are to follow. I know that paper should come with the puppy when you take them home. I asked about this and he said it is because they are are Hungarian imports and his is waiting on the fci export pedigree before he can send off for the UK KC papers but he said a contract will be signed about sending papers. This doesn't really make me feel any better about the puppy coming with no papers.

Do this sound right? I don't want to be scammed paying for a cross breed.
I'm not sure on pedigree papers and import papers from other countries.

I hope someone can help me out. I'm very picky when it comes to finding my new baby and this little girl looks perfect.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

You know the old saying - if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Are the puppies supposed to actually be in this country or in Hungary? If they are not in this country, it is definitely a scam. Have you been to see the puppies? You cannot go by a photograph. There is an old scam that people still fall for, paying for a puppy from abroad, or even shipping costs, and that is the last you will hear because there is no puppy.

Never, ever buy a puppy that you have not seen and seen the mother with the litter. This is either a non existent pup, or a puppy farmer trying to find excuses for you not to see the puppy.

Why go abroad for a pug anyway? Plenty of nice pugs in the UK. Have a look on Champdogs.co.uk or email the breed club and ask about breeders.


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

Something doesn't quite sound right there. Papers come with the pup/dog even when importing. What vaccines have been done? Worming ect also are they chipped and have passports too?

We are importing a nice french bulldog boy. He's fully vaccinated, including rabies jab, a blood screening and kennel cough jab. Preventive treatment for parasites too.

Its not cheap to import though. Coming from Hungary it costs about £400. Our boy is costing £2900 this includes importation, fci papers which can be transfered to KC papers, microchipped and pet passport.

Have you looked at pugs over here? Do you have an idea as to what you are looking for? Colour, face, lineage (if you want to show good lines are mostly a must)


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

In Belgium police regularly intercept vans full of pups coming in from mills in Hungary ..Dutch people have bought pups from Belgium thinking they were bred there only to find the pups were imported from Poland or Hungary that their papers are false and often times the pups are sick..

There have been warnings about this scam on tv for the last few years..
Its heartbreaking.

Unless you can go visit the breeder see the conditions the pups are bred in and have the papers when you pick up the pup dont do it..

..note; Im not saying all Hungarian or Polish breeders are like this but be aware those who would just send a pup proberbly are..


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

it does sound a bit dodgy. I have seen something in the Kennel Club breeding pages about registering a pregnant bitch from abroad and how to go about registering the pups so it isn't impossible. Would it be worth phoning the kennel club? I have bought one pup from abroad (as it wasn't possible to buy in this country) and am getting another in October but I dealt with the foreign breeders direct and went to get her. I backed out of one deal as I started to smell a rat and don't regret it as I don't think there would even have been a puppy after I'd paid the deposit.


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

If pup is still abroad and you cant travel over I would join a pug club/group (theres loads on facebook, some breeders use them) ask on them about the kennel the puos coming from. 
ALWAYS ALWAYS CHECK AND RECHECK a kennel abroad before commiting. NEVER send money through western union.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

There are a couple of ads on Pets 4 homes for pugs posted 18 and 7 minutes ago! oops but the 650 one isnt full pug!


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

sounds a tad dodgy. i'd contact pug club and get a list of recomended breeders from them . saves any heartache x


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

Here's a bit more info.
She's in the UK now. The rest of her litter has gone to their new homes now.
The breeder says she comes with a passport, she's been wormed and flea treated, had her vaccinations (asking about second lot as she's 14 weeks now).
They don't have her mother, she's abroad. They say she was visited by a friend while she was pregnant and after the babies were born.
They have said I can visit the puppy whenever I like and I can pay for her and take her home once her KC papers come if I like. A deposit would be taking if I want her though.

I want a happy, healthy puppy not a poor little one from a puppy farm.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

Oh and she's not a cheap pug.
I know you won't get a real pug for anything under £800 at the very cheapest.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

I'm looking for a good quality fawn female pug. Good dark face and ears. 
Strong body, not fat. Curly tail but not bothered about a double curl. 

This little girl has it all. Good body, dark face and her eyes are good. I don't want a pug who can't see because their eyes point in different directions.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

iheartmagpies said:


> Here's a bit more info.
> They don't have her mother, she's abroad. They say she was visited by a friend while she was pregnant and after the babies were born.
> They have said I can visit the puppy whenever I like and I can pay for her and take her home once her KC papers come if I like. A deposit would be taking if I want her though.
> 
> I want a happy, healthy puppy not a poor little one from a puppy farm.


So were the puppies born here? If they were imported they couldn't have been imported legally before 13 weeks minimum. And thats only if they have been given a rabies shot at 10 weeks - which as I have discovered is fairly unusual- most vets won't give it at that age.


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

So puppies have been brought over illegally then? 
Look up all the details on DEFRA. to even be granted access to the UK all vacs must be done and blood screening for rabies.
Personally I would steer clear. 
Do they have records of everything being carried out medical wise? Ask what pups parents reg names are too and look them up


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

But how do you know she has it all? You haven't seen her? That is the very first thing you must do before going any farther. I wouldn't want an imported puppy unless it really was a breed unavailable in the UK.

Have a look at some of these

Pug Breeders - Champdogs ®


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

iheartmagpies said:


> I'm looking for a good quality fawn female pug. Good dark face and ears.
> Strong body, not fat. Curly tail but not bothered about a double curl.
> 
> This little girl has it all. Good body, dark face and her eyes are good. I don't want a pug who can't see because their eyes point in different directions.


Glastonbull have a litter of pugs due next week. They usually have great quality pups. I also know a friend of mine is due pugs beginning of Oct too. Good quality showi lines.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

I didn't think the ages fitted either.
The rest of the litter have been sold a few weeks ago so under 14 weeks old.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

I obviously don't know 100% if she's "perfect" but wouldn't buy before I saw a puppy anyway. Just most the puppies I've seen so far just aren't good looking to put it bluntly. Like someone who wanted to show I want a certain look. No cross eyes, etc. I have been looking for years and I'm picky.

If I went to see a litter but didn't want one a baby from you would you get offended and say I was a time waster?


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

I am buying a pup from Czech Republic. He won't have his rabies jab until 3 calendar months after he is born (so nearly 13 weeks) Vets in Czech Rep will not vaccinate before this time then we can't bring him into this country until at least 3 weeks have passed since his rabies jab. Therefore he will be around 16 weeks when we bring him home. Different countries may have different rules about when they can have rabies jab but a pup *must * be a minimum of 12 weeks old before they can enter the UK.
Re visiting a puppy. If you don't like it say you have to confer with OH (even if you haven't got one) and you will phone them back.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

I feel like crying because of it all. 
Didn't think it would be this stressful. Lol.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

Forgot to say thank you for all the advice.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

there seems to be pug puppies coming on pets 4 homes every hour! What about these? the last ones a bit of a minger  but the others look ok (just kidding probably the way it's being held)
pug puppies kc registered | Chesterfield, Derbyshire | Pets4Homes


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm probably going to show my ignorance once again, but I cant begin to understand why anyone would want to buy a pup without actually seeing it. For sure, I know nothing about show dogs and very little about breeds that I have no experience of. When I bought my last two, a Goldie and a Springer, I sat for hours in the living room of the chap, a local gamekeeper, who bred them, just watching how they reacted, not only towards me, but between the rest of their litter mates, in the case of my retreiver my instincts told me which one was for me and so it was with the spaniel. I saw both sets of parents and every query I had was answered.
I know that I have my dogs for a specific purpose but regardless of that there is no way I'd agree to taking on a pup without having spent some time observing how they responded towards me.
I've never been asked to pay a deposit, if I've said, ''Thats the one I want'' then the deal is done, I pay when it's ready to come home with me. I guess because I move in a tight knit circle as far as dogs are concerned, most of us in my area who work their dogs know one another, things are a little different and less hidebound by technicalities than that in the 'Real world''


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

Don't get down hearted you will find your perfect pug and she will be all the more precious because you searched so hard. Then you will find you are addicted to looking for puppies and end up buying another 3 months later like a certain idiot I know intimately! :lol:


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

As others have said this pup has to have been imported illegally if it's 13 weeks old. Pups have to be 3 months old before they can have their rabies injection and then there is the 21 days wait. they also have to have been microchipped before the injection and they have to be wormed. so pups have to be nearly 4 months old before they can come into uk.

the bit about having an export registration from their KC is right, but then YOU would get those papers to send off to the UK KC to register here.

really you need to find out a lot more about a breeder before you commit to buying a puppy. I imported a dog from Germany. I actually contacted the stud dog owner about possibly using him and then was advised of a forthcoming litter. I made contact with the breeder, found out lots about them. Flew over to see the puppy/see the set up/ meet the breeder etc before driving over to pick him up in January.

there are a lot of scams at the moment :-(


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

I was asking for advice about buying a puppy. I have read and been told LOTS about buying a puppy in the UK but I don't know nothing about imports.

I know the number one rule is to visit the puppy. I wanted to find out if it was legit before I wasted time going to visit the puppy. I was NOT going to just buy her. I'm not that stupid.

If anyone has any advice, questions I should ask breeder or anything please let me know but please don't tell me I need to visit a puppy first because I already know and already stated before. 

If a breeder ever said they would deliver a puppy or can't see their puppies I would never do that. This breeder has said I can visit whenever and spend time with her to see if we are right for each other. They aren't pushing her on me, they are incontact with me and saying they will keep her until her paper come (with deposit though) that is why I've been so confused and needed advice.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

@Luz
I've been searching for years for my baby. Finally in the right place to get her.
I want three pugs but the OH won't have any of it. Lol. 
I have to share a house with loads of frogs though. He said they are my pets too.
How am I supposed to hug a frog?


Can moan though. He's buying me my baby pug :001_wub:


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

@Luz
I saw that ad. The picture are the same for few more ads for different prices and area.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

cuddling frogs  But apparently they are fun to lick. I don't really know what to ask apart from checking out the passport very thoroughly because I can't see how pup has been imported legally. I paid deposit on Abi without seeing her as she was only one left and it was so hard to get a reputable breeder in CR even to answer my emails! So I went with the ones who gave me lots of info and photos. Also the pups sell so fast that I was worried the deposit wouldn't clear in time and they would sell her to someone else. When we got there she leapt into my arms as if she had been waiting for me and she never looked back-even when her breeders were driving away! (We spent two hours in their home and saw how well the pups were reared.) The breeders were lovely and I was happy to have dealt with them. 
The next pup we are buying is from someone high up in Czech Breeding club so I don't have any qualms really. I have had lots of contact and info. In an ideal world you would buy locally and visit the pup without obligation but sometimes when you are buying a rare breed you don't have that luxury.


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

Have you looked into the health problems that pugs have?

I'm no pug expert but they do have some pretty awful issues with breathing just to name one problem. Perhaps you know all this but as you haven't mentioned it I have no idea what your views are on the subject.

In my opinion it would be a very good idea to see as many pugs related to the one that you are thinking of buying and just listen to them as they move. Seeing mum would be the utter minimum I think.

Why not go to some shows and watch the pugs? Get some idea of the lines that move well and breath easily. Discard some of the wheezy, stertorous dogs, even if they win. Do a bit of research and see if you can find out how long dogs of that line live.

It's worth the effort because I for one would want a dog that would live into the teens. Think of the heartbreak of owning a sick or short-lived dog.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

I asked the breeder lots more questions.
They says she has a passport, fci papers to be changed, medical history including flea and worm treatment, her vaccs including rabies. She's microchiped. She's actually 16 weeks and came in the UK at 14 weeks.
They said I can visit her next week to see if she's right for me and they will show me all papers and parents pedigree names etc.
They have answered the questions quickly, been nice and spent quite a bit of time talking to me.

I feel they have put a lot of effort in if she's isn't a pedigree when it would have been easier to sell her as a cross for a bit less. But I'm not letting my guard down though.

I think I will go visit her and see how it goes from there.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

iheartmagpies said:


> @Luz
> I saw that ad. The picture are the same for few more ads for different prices and area.


oops sorry thats what put me off the first breeder in czech republic. Good Luck with your visit :thumbup1:


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

I know pugs have problems, like all dog breeds they are prone to certain illnesses and problems.
I've been reading about pugs for a long time now. I also know a few owners of pugs too. Fortunately they haven't had any problems with their pugs other than keeping them awake at night. Lol.

I'm training to be a vet nurse too so I hope I will be able to spot problems quickly and know the best people to treat them. 

I know I will always get "ooooo pugs, they have problems. Stay clear" 
My old friend had German shepherds all her life, every one had hip dysplasia. She kept have the breed as pets because they just loved German shepherds but knew they are risks.

I've been brought up with labs and love 'em but no way a lab could live happily with my back garden. I also love pugs, I love their temperament, their noises, how loving they are and the fact they will fit happily in my house and garden. Lol.

This little girl might not be the one but I wanted to give her a chance because she looks good and healthy (not saying she is) her eyes aren't badly protruding like a lot I've seen. She can see straight. Isn't over weight and her nose is not right in her face.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

Luz you can come round to lick some frogs if you like. Lol. I'm not sure they taste good. Very pretty to look at, he collects poison dart frogs. The are all beautiful colours.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

Let me know how you get on. As for really wanting a pug- the heart wants what the heart wants. I teach in a secondary school and when I said I was going to CR to get a Prague Ratter, one of the kids said, very po faced, 'there are plenty of good dogs in the UK! 
I said 'I have had rescue dogs and taken on the pets of both parents when they died. I think I have earned the right to choose whatever dog I like!' Which isn't totally true as I have always wanted a Bernese mountain dog too but my OH won't let me!


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

iheartmagpies said:


> I asked the breeder lots more questions.
> They says she has a passport, fci papers to be changed, medical history including flea and worm treatment, her vaccs including rabies. She's microchiped. She's actually 16 weeks and came in the UK at 14 weeks.
> They said I can visit her next week to see if she's right for me and they will show me all papers and parents pedigree names etc.
> They have answered the questions quickly, been nice and spent quite a bit of time talking to me.
> ...


It is impossible for a dog to have been imported legally at 14 weeks or under, they have to be 3 months old before they have the rabies jab and then you have to wait 21 days..... so they can only have the rabies at 14 weeks about and then another 3 weeks before they can come to UK


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

PennyGC said:


> It is impossible for a dog to have been imported legally at 14 weeks or under, they have to be 3 months old before they have the rabies jab and then you have to wait 21 days..... so they can only have the rabies at 14 weeks about and then another 3 weeks before they can come to UK


I was told by DEFRA on the phone that it depends on the Vet and the vaccine some will innoculate at 10 weeks, they would be allowed intothe UK 3weeks later. I don't know what the minimum age for vaccinations is in Hungary is but technically it may be feasible.


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

iheartmagpies said:


> If I went to see a litter but didn't want one a baby from you would you get offended and say I was a time waster?


No  Personally I tell everyone to visit as many litters as they can before settling on a pup. I even tell people who enquire about our pups too. That way no one need feel obliged to buy one of ours and they can see the variety of different shapes and sizes within the Frenchies


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I wanted to send a private message but you don't have enough posts. If you look at this link

EASTONITE READY EDDY AT BRITISHGLORY

This dog is from Crufts winning lines. If you look up Migang Carlby or the Eastonite lines there are lots of champions and if you want to show, a good choice would be a puppy with these lines in the background.

You cannot ever guarantee that a puppy is going to be show quality, but it will give you your very best chance. Buying from abroad will not.

I hope you find your perfect dog, but what may start out as perfect may not stay that way. 
Good luck.


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

This is the Stud my friend has used with pups due October! 
She loves him and has had lovely puppies produced by him before.

Remember though you would be looking at a puppy, they can change a lot when growing.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Sorry if I'm just being daft, but this person doesn't own the parents of the pups- just imported them to sell? Did I read that right?
Personally, I'd be asking the seller why they imported the litter to sell here, surely there would have been good homes in Hungary that wouldn't involve a huge stressy journey?
Need to add- I'm Not against importing dogs, I may even import a puppy myself some day, but to bring a whole litter to another country to sell? That's the bit that stood out to me- sounds a bit broker-ish to me (although it's taken me 12hrs to read the whole thread since i fell asleep so I may have misread; apologies of I did)


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## Darth (May 18, 2011)

That's how I read it too. 

I don't think the bitch is there for viewing.

Personally I wouldn't entertain a puppy who's been imported under these circumstances.

I would get in touch with breed clubs and KC assured breeders and be prepared to wait for the right litter.


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

If these were UK bred puppies who were being sold through a 3rd party, all the evidence would point to a puppy farmer. I think some Eastern European countries are notorious for puppy farms - and no good breeder would sell a puppy this way.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

PennyGC said:


> It is impossible for a dog to have been imported legally at 14 weeks or under, they have to be 3 months old before they have the rabies jab and then you have to wait 21 days..... so they can only have the rabies at 14 weeks about and then another 3 weeks before they can come to UK


As has been said it can be from 10 weeks, my puppy will be 15 weeks when it touches down in the UK 
People import for many reasons. For me I am looking for a blue eyed toy/mini Klee Kai and after 3yrs of waiting Ive resorted to importing from the USA. And before anyone comes back saying im being too specific in what I want, if Im spending just over £3000 I think I can be picky!

I would be highly supsect of someone importing alitter to sell on tho, ive only seen this done with protection dogs, please be careful x


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

Interesting that after I brought my pup in (January) the guidance has changed from Defra - I know in December that the manufacturer of the vaccine stipulated 3 months so perhaps the manufacturers have amended vaccines to enable it to be done quicker and Defra have changed their rules... so apologies for that... I guess though that there will be a minimum age to allow for the dam's immunity like with other jabs...


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

PennyGC said:


> Interesting that after I brought my pup in (January) the guidance has changed from Defra - I know in December that the manufacturer of the vaccine stipulated 3 months so perhaps the manufacturers have amended vaccines to enable it to be done quicker and Defra have changed their rules... so apologies for that... I guess though that there will be a minimum age to allow for the dam's immunity like with other jabs...


Apparently it depends on the make of vaccine - it seems there are several and there is one that can be administered at 10 weeks. I don't know which it is or anything. I suppose there is a wider choice of vaccines in a huge country like the USA.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> If they are not in this country, it is definitely a scam.


I am pulling this bit out because, in fairness, some breeders DO import pups (although usually one or two pups and not to my knowledge whole litters) - however, I would have to know and trust the breeder with my life to go into a purchase agreement along those lines.

It is also possible that a breeder could have imported one or more pups, and they do not turn out as expected, so may be moving one or more of them on (but of course these pups would be older and already registered with the UK KC).

This situation doesn't however sound like either of the above, and I agree overall, the setup sounds more than a little suspect.

I can't tell you much about importing pups (But I know there are members here who probably can), but I can tell you a little about exporting them.

Going from the UK to France for example - the pup would usually have its jabs and probably its rabies jab and would be in the region of 15 to 17 weeks old (I say region, because these things are always changing and each European country will have its own rules and requirements).

The dog would go with its UK pedigree and the owner would be quite entitled to transfer the pup to their overseas address with the UK KC.

In France, they could then apply for basic registration with the French KC.

To get full registration, the dog needs to be "confirmed" after around 18 months

However, it can be shown abroad on it's UK KC registration and basic French registration (UK Breeders sometimes register their dogs with the Irish Kennel Club so they can go over and show in Ireland).

An export pedigree would be issued from the UK once the dog has been confirmed - then it's registration would previously have been removed from the UK KC database - this has now been changed and as far as I can see, dogs details remain on the UK KC DBase.

To register a dog in the UK from any country, as far as I am aware, yes, they would need a pedigree from their country of origin and the dog would have (Imp) and possibly also the country of origin alongside its name, for example, Imp Den, Irish Kennel Club would have (IKC) alonside it's name.

I wouldn't buy any pup from someone who has not bred the litter unless I knew the breeder well (fortunately, if you show / work your dogs, then you do get to know people personally / by reputation) -

For someone not moving in those circles, and presumably looking for a pet, then Pugs are a breed that will have many very good ethical breeders in the UK, with little need to import a pup unless there is a need / want for specific bloodlines into a dogs kennel - then - you would probably looking at one or two pups, certainly *not a whole litter*.

Pugs are a fairly common breed, and I am sure with a bit of research, you can find nicely bred dogs here whose parents have any recommended health tests.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

So how did it go? Was she your perfect pug or are you still looking? I would have sent a private message but you can't get them till you have made 25 posts.


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## iheartmagpies (Aug 23, 2012)

Thanks for the advice everyone. 
I did some more research and looked at a couple of litters and the imported pup. 
I can now say I am a mommy 
We went for the imported little girl, she was the best out the lot we saw. We checked her passport and rang her vet. The seller knew the breed well and all her own pets were happy and healthy. She answered all my questions and made sure I knew how to look after her. Now we have Lola.

Lola has had all the vaccinations and treatments. She's a very happy, healthy, curious, clever little girl and also a pain in the backside on occasion. Lol. 
We are very happy with her  

It is very important to do all the right checks when you get a puppy. Sometimes your gut feeling is also important and if you feel something is not right don't do it but if it feels right check it out. You never know, it might be the perfect fit.


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## maxandskye (Jan 31, 2009)

Congratulations hun. :thumbup:


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