# 'Posh' expensive cat foods vs supermarket type brands



## NIKKID (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm probably opening a can of worms here but I am very interested in the number of threads and different views covering the various types of cat foods.

Having recently taken on board a Maine Coon boy whose breeder was a very keen raw feeder for her babies, I started to take more notice of what was in the cat foods I'd used before. Horrifying reading to be sure.

My boy is my fourth cat and I have always used bog standard foods of the Whiskers/Felix type [didn't know there was any alternative tbh] and they all did very well on it. My two elder girls, a mother and daughter combo, never had a day's ill health until old age carried them off a year apart at the age of 21. My last cat, Bella, was fourteen when she was taken from us due to misadventure at the vets. Again, very little in the way of ill health.

Can these commercial brands be so awful, bearing the above in mind? Pretty much every cat owner I know [and there are more than a handful] use supermarket type brands and their cats are in fabulous fettle.

I can see that they contain a fair amount of rubbish but am I going to be doing my boy any serious harm by permitting him to have an occasional sachet of Whiskers in his weekly menu?  The high meat content foods are quite expensive for my greedy boy and I find myself thinking that his lovely predecessors did very well on a diet entirely purchased from the local supermarket. I'm trying to offer him a compromise diet, 2/3 raw/high meat content such as porta 21, Miamor or Bozitta which he loves but are quite dear with perhaps 3/4 meals a week made up of supermarket type brands.

I know there are a great many strong views on the subject of what to feed our feline friends but it is difficult to do right when you are on a restricted budget.

I'd value opinons and thoughts


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

To me there is a difference between surviving and thriving. 

Plus I don't think many of the better ones are more expensive, considering you can feed less as there is less filler.


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## AnimatedApe (Oct 18, 2010)

I've not had much success with Bozita myself, but many on these boards regard it as one of the best foods out there. 

If my older cat liked Bozita then I would be spending around 75p every day on her food. Currently I'm spending around £1.50 a day by feeding HiLife.

If I was feeding Felix then it would cost between 50p and 75p per day providing I got food that was on BOGOF type offers otherwise it would be about £1.15 per day.

Like gloworm says, the better foods are not necessarily more expensive.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Check out this thread: http://www.petforums.co.uk/1061227287-post3.html. Or for those too lazy to click through, here it is. It isn't quite finished yet, but you get the gist

*Is supermarket food "junk" food or What is "good" food?*

*~ Nutrients, ingredients, fillers and price ~*​
Most people (particularly before they come to forums such as this or before they start to read up on cat food) buy their cat food during their weekly shop at the supermarket. Very often these people are told on forums that they are feeding their cats junk food, deliberately implying that they are harming their cat by feeding this food in the long-term. In return, people who don't feed supermarket food and who label such food as junk food are often outed as "food snobs". So, what is the story with supermarket food? Is it "good" food?

Well, that all hinges on how one defines "good" food? At the most basic level, a good food is a food that contains the nutrients that cats need to maintain their health - i.e. foods that are labelled to be "complete". Any food labelled as being a complete food needs to contain the nutrients a cat needs to maintain its health to a certain degree. However, there are no hard or fast rules; only ranges (albeit with some lower and upper limits) and guidelines, which is why there is so much nutritional variability in the available food. But be aware. There are also "treat" or "complementary" foods that do not contain such nutrients but that often aren't declared as such. For more info on these see the Other food-related titbit section.

However, in my opinion, a food should not only contain the nutrients cats need to maintain their health or to thrive; they should also clearly state what they contain.

Now legally, any pet food manufacturer needs to declare on their labels the statutory minimum, which from a consumer's point of view is completely useless because these are: min 4% meat and animal derivatives of the flavour animal (the flavour meat being the protein source that gives the food the name: i.e Whiskas with Beef in jelly for example would need to contain at least 4% beef; the rest can be other meats), and some top-level heading of the other stuff they put in, such as minerals, vegetable derivatives, oils, sugar, additives etc. Labels can contain a lot more detail but they are at the discretion of the manufacturer (Please note that the labelling regulations are currently changing, allegedly making it easier for consumers to understand them).

Now, the food contains more than 4% of that flavour meat but unless the manufacturer divulges more info on the label, we don't know how much more and what other animal meats are being used. We also don't know how much of this is "real" meat and how much of this is offal or what is termed by-products or animal derivatives.

There is nothing wrong with the use of offal per se; they are a nutritious part of an animal, And if you think about it, a cat hunting prey would also consume things we wouldn't ordinarly eat ourselves. However, imo it is all about the proportions. And let's not forget offal is cheap; cheaper than meat and that is one way they keep costs to themselves down. What manufacturers use is, within certain guidelines, up to them. So, if you want to know what by-products a manufacturer uses either consult their website or ask them. If you are not happy with what they tell you, don't buy it.

For the wet food A-Z (http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/112132-z-wet-food-cats.html) I have tried to find out how much overall meat content there is and how much of that is meat vs offal. While most companies have played ball, the big guns, which also tend to be the ones most often found in supermarkets, are not willing to divulge that information.

So, supermarket foods aren't typically "good" foods because you don't know what they contain. Additionally, they tend to be the ones that are chunks in jelly/gravy, which means that not only will they need to use additives to keep the chunks in chunks but the meat chunks in a tin or pouch also compete with certain fillers - i.e. jelly or gravy. Proportionally these fillers tend to be quite high (well, jelly and gravy is cheaper than meat/offal etc) and are nutritionally questionable. If you can find food that is "pate" food (i.e. the consistency of chicken liver pate). Because of their consistency they need fewer fillers (jelly/gravy), which means that they tend to be higher in meat content.

Lastly, and perhaps for most surprisingly as people tend to associate supermarkets with "cheap" food, these cat foods often available in supermarkets also tend to be either just as pricey, or in some case, even more costly than other food that is better declared but that is only had over the internet.

Again, the wet food A-Z (http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/112132-z-wet-food-cats.html) gives the price not only per 100g (roughly) but also takes the feeding recs into consideration. And no, the best foods aren't necessarily more expensive. Indeed, one of the foods I deem as one of the best ones is one of the cheapest. But the relationship that supermarket = cheap and "better foods" = expensive simply doesn't stack up but the trick is to know where to look!

Also, the brands that you consider high meat - i.e. the Porta 21, Miamor and Bozita, are expensive for what they are. But personally I wouldn't class them as good quality, high meat brands. 

*Needs to be continued*


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

AnimatedApe said:


> *I've not had much success with Bozita myself, but many on these boards regard it as one of the best foods out there. *
> 
> If my older cat liked Bozita then I would be spending around 75p every day on her food. Currently I'm spending around £1.50 a day by feeding HiLife.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of people like me at one point are suckered in by the claim that Bozita in jelly/gravy contains up to 93% meat content. However, that refers only to the meat in the meaty chunks, which themselves are competing for space in the tetrapaks with the jelly/gravy. Though Bozita didn't want to go on record and say exactly how much jelly/gravy there is, they did say it is less than 50%. Incidentally, the Toplife, which is very similar to Bozita though using an adjusted recipes, have a 50/50 split.

So, the only Bozita that is "good" are the pate ones - particularly the pate tetrapaks, as they contain a better meat to offal ratio than the tins, which have lung as their first ingredient.


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## Tylah (Mar 12, 2011)

If you buy Felix at 2 for a fiver. It costs 21p a pouch (100g) 

If you buy Animonda Carny cans it would cost 25p for 1 pouches worth. If they have 3 pouches worth a day, it would cost you 12p more a day to feed them something much better. I'm sure everyone can afford to spend that extra 12p.


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## shyboots (Jun 29, 2011)

Hobbs, what would you do about a cat that won't eat pate type food, and prefers gravy? I've tried adding water to 'make' a bit of gravy but it didn't work. Although, I know it might take longer than a few weeks.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Cats can be very contrary! Three possible ways:

1) use the gravy based food that your cat likes eating and very sloooooowwwly introduce the pate food. Sloooowwwwly upping the amount of pate food while decreasing the amount of gravy food

2) mash up the gravy food to get a pate consistency and feed or use ploy number 1

3) water down pate food and feed or use ploy number 1 (though you have tried that so leaves you with ploy 1 or 2)

Sure there are some other strategies that you can use that other people will post


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## cookiemom (Jun 23, 2011)

I've 5 cats, they are raw fed, mix of whole prey / prey model costs me about £1.75 - £2.00 depending on how much organic / natural reared meats I feed.


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## cookiemom (Jun 23, 2011)

Opps, thats to feed all 5 for a day!


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

I agree with NIKKID here...

The only time in my life I have known any cat to be on a more expensive diet.... it gave her the terrible runs.

My family are Birman lovers and I have grown up with them and am now fortunate enough to have my own. When I was younger, my parents fed whiska's to their cats, and still do now to their boy. I fed my girl whiska's kitten and then read all the things on here about how bad it was and comments such as "like feeding McDonald's every day" so I gradually moved her over to a higher meat content food and she had terrible runs for a few weeks!

I stuck with the "better" food in hope that the runs stopped but they never did! Once I moved her back onto the whiska's kitten food, she had no more sloppy poos and was as active as ever!

Surely, just like us humans, its down to what your cat can tolerate... Some cats will not be able to have Whiska's or Felix, some wont be able to have the higher meat content foods.

No doubt many people will diasagree with me saying that, but I know my cat and what she can/can't have... so I'll stick with what I know she is ok on.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

To me it makes very little sense for a cat not to 'tolerate' a high meat content diet. if anything they shouldnt tolerate the things which should not be in their diets which are more present in whiskas etc.

I would be looking to pinpoint what exactly my cat was not tolerating, like one particular meat variety, or the grains which are present in some higher quality foods, rather than assuming my cat could ONLY eat whiskas


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

kittyjay90 said:


> I agree with NIKKID here...
> 
> The only time in my life I have known any cat to be on a more expensive diet.... it gave her the terrible runs.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with your basic message, which is that your cat is doing ok on the supermarket foods, but I am going to disagree with you that it was the high meat content per se of the other food that you have tried that your cat cannot stomach. Just because one food didn't suit doesn't mean that another food of the same ilk would not have been different. Meaning, you cannot generalise from one food to the other.

It could have been that you didn't introduce the new food gradually enough or that there was something in that higher meat content food, other than the higher meat content, that didn't agree with your cat.

Anyhow, what matters is that you are happy what you feed your cat - for the right reasons.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

I am not saying she would only eat Whiska's but I am saying I know that doesn't give her an upset tummy and is causing no health problems so I am going to keep her on that.

I dont see the need to change it over if it is causing no problems... Why possibly put her through stress of trying out different foods which could cause more upset tummys and make her less active when she is thriving as she is?

Like I said... all cats are different, and owners know their cats.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

cookiemom said:


> Opps, thats to feed all 5 for a day!


Well, to be fair, if you were to feed a particular brand of commercially available raw food, you would be able to feed your 5 cats for about £1. But I should think your cats' diet is probably better by miles. Well, at least you know exactly what you are feeding!


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

I would never suggest you to not feed your cats something that works. however, I came to the forum feeding a pretty rubbish diet and I have pretty much fed every good food under the sun to try and get my cats onto a diet they can thrive. The difference between them then, and them now, is INSANE, in every way.


I do not think it is stressful to change their diet as long as you do it properly. 

It scares me when people say on here that 'rich' foods (meaning high quality foods) give their cats poorly tummys, as meat should not, on its own, make a cat ill, and I would hate for people to be put off trying these 'rich' foods because of that.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> I don't disagree with your basic message, which is that your cat is doing ok on the supermarket foods, but I am going to disagree with you that it was the high meat content per se of the other food that you have tried that your cat cannot stomach. Just because one food didn't suit doesn't mean that another food of the same ilk would not have been different. Meaning, you cannot generalise from one food to the other.
> 
> It could have been that you didn't introduce the new food gradually enough or that there was something in that higher meat content food, other than the higher meat content, that didn't agree with your cat.
> 
> Anyhow, what matters is that you are happy what you feed your cat - for the right reasons.


I introduced her *very very* slowly as I knew a quick change wasn't good at all. It may have been that particular food, but just incase another food does the same, I would rather keep her on something she loves. She's also very active on it and has a wonderful shiny coat.

She's happy and I'm happy for the right reasons just like you mentioned


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

re reading the OP it actually seems more concerned with the prices of these posh foods (when in fact many lower level foods such as RC etc are MUCH MUCH more expensive)

As I said, I do not think the supermarket foods are awful, they are a complete food and give cats what they need.

I do think they are a bare minimum of what a cat needs and I do not believe a cat can thrive with that much filler, same as a human, but thats my opinion and I will treat my cats accordingly.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> I would never suggest you to not feed your cats something that works. however, I came to the forum feeding a pretty rubbish diet and I have pretty much fed every good food under the sun to try and get my cats onto a diet they can thrive. The difference between them then, and them now, is INSANE, in every way.
> 
> I do not think it is stressful to change their diet as long as you do it properly.
> 
> It scares me when people say on here that 'rich' foods (meaning high quality foods) give their cats poorly tummys, as meat should not, on its own, make a cat ill, and I would hate for people to be put off trying these 'rich' foods because of that.


I'm not trying to put people off trying the "rich" foods. I'm merely speaking from experience and stating that cats are different, and owners will know when they get to a food that suits their cat.

I am not saying one is better than another in general... I just think once a cat is on a food that they are enjoying and are healthy on, what is wrong with it?

And regarding the stress with change, I did do it properly, and she loved the taste of the food, but it didnt agree with her tummy causing her to have the runs which in itself, was stressful for my cat.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

I assume you only tried one brand? I don't think you can draw conclusions from that with regards to EVERY brand out there. maybe she would absolutely love another brand?

You don't have to feed your cat anything that you don't want to, of course, and I am happy for people to feed their cats whatever they want, but to draw concklusions from I assume one brand and say 'well some cats don't tolerate rich food' really means 'my cat didnt tolerate x brand of food'


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> I assume you only tried one brand? I don't think you can draw conclusions from that with regards to EVERY brand out there. maybe she would absolutely love another brand?
> 
> You don't have to feed your cat anything that you don't want to, of course, and I am happy for people to feed their cats whatever they want, but to draw concklusions from I assume one brand and say 'well some cats don't tolerate rich food' really means 'my cat didnt tolerate x brand of food'


If you read the above post where I quoted Hobbs, I have said...

"It may have been that particular food, but just incase another food does the same, I would rather keep her on something she loves."

So no, I haven't drawn conclusions....


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Thats fine, I just would not want other people to not try to move their cats to a better diet out of worry it will give them the runs, as often the poor food is the cause of problems.

Nikkid gave no indication her cats were ill on other food.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

NIKKID said:


> I'm probably opening a can of worms here but I am very interested in the number of threads and different views covering the various types of cat foods.
> 
> Having recently taken on board a Maine Coon boy whose breeder was a very keen raw feeder for her babies, I started to take more notice of what was in the cat foods I'd used before. Horrifying reading to be sure.
> 
> ...


No mention of unhealthy cats but mention of extremely healthy cats... to which I have mentioned how mine is healthy on the Whiska's and was unhealthy off it.

NIKKID also stated she would value opinions and thoughts, which is what I have given in me sharing my experiences.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

But maybe they would be healthier on another diet? 

I wouldnt want to put people off from trying something which is undoubtedly healthier for their cats, regardless of how well they appear to be on other diets.

As I said, survive and thrive.

There is of course nothing wrong with a food which helps your cats survive, but I do not want that for my animals, and I will try everything under the sun (and have done) to do the best for my cats.

Not everyone has to do that, but I would never put them off from trying it.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

kittyjay90 said:


> Surely, just like us humans, its down to what your cat can tolerate... Some cats will not be able to have Whiska's or Felix, some wont be able to have the higher meat content foods.


Why are you trying to pick holes in my experience with foods? Someone asked for opinions, which I have given and I have clearly stated several times that each cat is different however *my* cat is perfectly healthy on Whiska's. I have stated several times each cat is different and never tried to put people off trying different foods...

Look at my quote above and this one here...

"I am not saying one is better than another in general... I just think once a cat is on a food that they are enjoying and are healthy on, what is wrong with it?"

I am talking about personal experience but still remaining open at the same time...


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Because I do not believe its true.

I do not think that there are cats that do not tolerate a higher meat content food.

I believe some cats cannot tolerate brand A of high meat content food (for example mine will not eat pfotenliebe, they get the runs on Grau, and have stopped eating Bozita)

*However I see literally no reason why any cat would not be able to tolerate 'high meat content food' as an umbrella statement.*


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Well, if they are feeding wet food, than that is already a great start as most of the "health issues" that we often talk about with respect to nutrition goes back to a predominance of dry food in the cat's diet (lack of moisture, extreme carb content etc). 

There are some supermarket foods that have a low carb content; well lower than some of the high meat content foods. Not all supermarket foods contain sugars, not all contain cereals. There are some foods that are better thought of than the likes of Whiskas that are on par but because of their marketing seem to more accepted. But why I think there are better foods than the stuff commonly found in supermarkets is in my original post so am not going to repeat it


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Because I do not believe its true.
> 
> I do not think that there are cats that do not tolerate a higher meat content food.
> 
> ...


Go find me where I have said, 'cats cannot tolerate a "high meat content food".'

Because I haven't...

I have stated my experiences, given my opinions which was asked in the OP but never made that statement. As established before, I stated I do not wish to try another food due to my experiences and I am happy my cat is healthy on the Whiska's...

Everyone is entitled to an opinion so I would appriciate if you did not try to pick holes in what I am saying anymore please.


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## cookiemom (Jun 23, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Well, to be fair, if you were to feed a particular brand of commercially available raw food, you would be able to feed your 5 cats for about £1. But I should think your cats' diet is probably better by miles. Well, at least you know exactly what you are feeding!


Blimey! I go through about 5kg a week, is it possible to have commercial at that cost?

I have a target of £1.50 which is easily doable, I pander to them though  the little blighters are so active (still!) at just over 2 years old now and two are big buggers.
My cunning plan is to get a bigger freezer this will mean double bulk buying and drop the cost


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

> 'Surely, just like us humans, its down to what your cat can tolerate... Some cats will not be able to have Whiska's or Felix, *some wont be able to have the higher meat content foods*.'


'the higher meat content foods' is a blanket statement. Until you have tried every HQ food there is, its impossible to say any cat could not tolerate at least one.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

cookiemom said:


> Blimey! I go through about 5kg a week, is it possible to have commercial at that cost?
> 
> I have a target of £1.50 which is easily doable, I pander to them though  the little blighters are so active (still!) at just over 2 years old now and two are big buggers.
> *My cunning plan is to get a bigger freezer this will mean double bulk buying and drop the cost *


Always THE way forward as a raw feeder!


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> 'the higher meat content foods' is a blanket statement. Until you have tried every HQ food there is, its impossible to say any cat could not tolerate at least one.


It is possible actually because my cat cannot tolerate at least one...


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Well sorry but you can draw no conclusions from that at all.

You have no idea what it is in that food that causes her issues, with not knowing what you feed. Clearly your cat is not intolerant to meat, as there is 'some' meat in whiskas. 

Mine cannot tolerate grau and I suspect it is the grain. It is ridiculous to just assume from trying ONE that your cat will not tolerate all of them, and I would hope no one else would make such a wild assumption....

Edit also, perhaps my statement is hard to read. I am saying from trying one food, you cannot say 'my cat is unable to tolerate any HQ brands of food' the same way if I get sick from eating a carrot, I cant say I will be sick will all vegetables.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

I think you need to re-read everything I have said, and repeated in this thread. I'm not stupid enough to think my cat cannot eat any meat so don't make me seem that way...

I have said it was a particular brand...
I have said I do not wish to try her on some other HQ foods...
I have said it is because I know she is perfectly healthy on Whiska's and is happy...

So no wild assumptions made from me.

Just because you don't agree with what I am feeding my cat, I don't think you should be slating what I am doing and trying to twist what I say.

Like I said, I have given my opinion and thoughts (*AS ASKED IN THE OP* and said how I feel.

_And there I was begining to think this place was friendlier than some of the posts make it out to be...:frown2:_

NIKKID - I hope you are happy with whatever food you choose for your cat to be on. I have merely given my opinion as you asked for and hope it was valuable.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

My only issue is with the statement 'some cats cannot tolerate high meat content foods'

If you had said 'some cats cannot tolerate grau/animonda/bozita/macs/granatapet/chicken/beef/fish/ostrich' I would have had no problem, as THAT is true.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

Well it seems your issue has been much more than that as you have only just started going on about that statement...

I think you're just taking what I have said a bit too literally...

I have only mentioned Felix and Whiska's in the supermarker brands... so does that read that I am saying all cats can/can't tolerate Tesco's food?

You seem to be the only person who is taking that statement to mean "every single HQ cat food on this earth" I couldn't name brands of the top of my head so worded it like that...


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

As I said, I very much doubt it is the high meat content which causes issues in these foods, and I wouldnt want people to be scared off high meat content, as thats the best thing you can get.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

:mad2:

Yeah... like *I* said... I'm not trying to scare people off...

I have offered my opinion as was asked.

Now please stop picking holes in everything I say...


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

NIKKID

I think its a fair question, so here's my take on it.

The one thing I believe above all else is that any complete diet is better than any incomplete diet. There may be things in some complete foods that are unnecessary or even potentially harmful; but the nutrients missing in complementary / unbalanced foods are a fast track to malnutrition, and will almost certainly cause harm.

Now, sticking to complete diets only - the issue of brands and quality...

Certainly some cats do survive - some might even say thrive - for many years on "crap" diets. However...
I could also say that some animals mass produced on commercial "farms" and sold on through pet shops go on to live long and healthy lives. Certainly doesn't mean I will be buying my pets from them any time soon - I wouldn't take the risk (ethical issues aside).

Equally, the same could be said of people... some of the oldest and / or healthiest people I know are the ones that do everything wrong! My ex's nan for example is now in her late 90s. It was only a couple of years back she stopped getting around by herself, and her eyesight became too poor for her to play bingo. Yet she has a poor diet, always smoked (even the odd cigarette into her early 90s) and has always been a fairly heavy drinker. Her lifestyle clearly sisn't do her any harm - would I recommend it to my kids? Not a chance in hell!!

As with all things in life I think it's a case of weighing up the risks. The risk of my cats suffering various problems is higher with some foods than others. Makes no odds to me what they eat, so I choose to minimise the risks and feed the higher quality foods.

On the subject of price.... it isn't simply a case of crap foods cheap, good foods expensive. There are some expensive poor foods, and cheap great ones.
When I switched my boys from whiskas (that they were on when I got them) onto shop bought high meat, grain free foods (HiLife and Natures Menu) my feeding costs certainly went up. But when I switched from those to Bozita, Smilla and Animonda Carny, I almost halved the cost. I would say its worth looking around, especially on sites like Zooplus. Brands like Smilla are very cheap to feed, and most of the good ones have great deals if you bulk buy.

Lastly, I'm certainly not going to suggest that the odd pouch of whiskas is a big deal. I have no problem with junk food in moderation, for people or animals (so long as its not downright dangerous!). I very occassionally give my boys a meal of supermarket stuff for a change, and their treats vary from the pure meat Dockas and Thrive treats to supermarket own junk treats. So long as the majority of their diet is good I personally don't think the odd crap treat is the end of the world.

Hope that made sense!


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## littlekitty (May 5, 2009)

I have tried my two with all of diffrent foods, they will only eat Gormet, Sheba, Encore. On the cheaper ones they like the Aldi vitacat fish pouches and Tescos own brand(sometimes). I like to rotate their food so they don't get bored.


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## shyboots (Jun 29, 2011)

NIKKID said:


> I'm probably opening a can of worms here but I am very interested in the number of threads and different views covering the various types of cat foods.
> 
> Having recently taken on board a Maine Coon boy whose breeder was a very keen raw feeder for her babies, I started to take more notice of what was in the cat foods I'd used before. Horrifying reading to be sure.
> 
> ...


Maybe the supermarket pet food aisles are like human food aisles were maybe 40 years ago? Like it being harder to get hold of brown bread, humous, aubergines, pasta, pomegranates, foreign cheeses and things we totally take for granted now? I don't know, I wasn't actually born then  but so I hear! That's what I find weird, we have so much choice in the supermarket now, but the pet aisles are pretty much 4/5 different brands and that's it. How long has Zooplus been going and how long have people been able to buy pet food from abroad? Maybe its a fairly new thing, maybe in the near future we'll start seeing more smaller brands emerging? Who knows, the economy isn't exactly in a state to encourage people to buy premium products, on the other hand as has been pointed out, some of these brands are really good value. Maybe a bit more competition would have Whiskas etc revising their recipes?



hobbs2004 said:


> Cats can be very contrary! Three possible ways:
> 
> 1) use the gravy based food that your cat likes eating and very sloooooowwwly introduce the pate food. Sloooowwwwly upping the amount of pate food while decreasing the amount of gravy food
> 
> ...


I will have a go at mixing a bit in later. He seems to eat _whatever_ is out overnight so I'll try it this evening. One question though - I have one of the small tins of Grau, half empty in the fridge from yesterday and it says to use in 24 hours, so if I only use a little bit I'm going to be wasting a lot  don't get me wrong, with a new cat and a new diet for him I'm well used to wasting food now. But does anyone keep a tin for longer than 24 hours? I have one of those cover/cap things for it.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Different foods have different guidelines and the optimum might be somewhere in the middle. For example, other brands recommend the food to be consumed within 2-3 days once refrigerated. But yes, there might be some wastage at the beginning when you are only using small amounts relative to the other food.


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## Celador (May 12, 2011)

Colette said:


> Equally, the same could be said of people... some of the oldest and / or healthiest people I know are the ones that do everything wrong! My ex's nan for example is now in her late 90s. It was only a couple of years back she stopped getting around by herself, and her eyesight became too poor for her to play bingo. Yet she has a poor diet, always smoked (even the odd cigarette into her early 90s) and has always been a fairly heavy drinker. Her lifestyle clearly sisn't do her any harm - would I recommend it to my kids? Not a chance in hell!!


I was going to post something very similar!

I am far from an expert on cat food and am still trying to learn as much as I can. So you can take my opinion with a pinch of salt!

You sometimes hear: "My cat is healthy and eats only xxx, that just goes to show that xxx is fine". Personally, I don't think it's great evidence that a diet is good simply because some cat's live a healthy life on it. What constitutes a good diet, is one that can be shown to be good based on the science of cat nutrition, not anecdotal evidence.

"My cat does ok on xxx" is the same as saying "Bob ate mostly fried / fast food and he lived till he was 85, that goes to show that a fast food diet is fine"

Bob was lucky. He played the odds, he ate a crappy diet and managed to live a long life. He beat the house, good on Bob 

For me, *personally*, it's all about the odds. You feed the best and hope it gives your cat the best CHANCES.

Some Cat's, fed on a poor diet will always beat the odds and others, fed a high quality diet will lose out ... but I'm a firm believer that you stack the odds in yours (and your cat's) favour by feeding the best you can.


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## NIKKID (Jun 5, 2011)

Oh dear, I knew I would be opening a can of worms with this one. I may be about to make things worse:mad2::mad2::mad2:

Firstly, I could never feed by cats 'prey' type foods - I own a parrot and the last thing I need is to be encouraging my cat to think of Japha parrot as dinner. That idea is just a non starter for me on just about every level.

I do also have some concerns about the welfare of the animals that go into my cat's food. We are told we have higher welfare standards in the UK for meat production etc - not sure I'm entirely convinced on that but at least we do have some welfare standards - and I'm a little concerned that foods sourced from abroad may come from abattoirs etc that would not stand up to scrutiny.

HRH does like the Bozita, Miamor and Porta 21 - I go for those brands as these were the ones he was raised on and recommended by his breeder. He seems to do quite well on them too. She did espouse the virtues of including some raw meat in his diet which I have attempted to do. He isn't overwhelmed with enthusiasm but I will persist with it.

I would not now feed my cat entirely on the supermarket brands but I can't ignore the lack of convenience in having to order everything in, the delays in delivery that I have encountered and the problems of storing the amount I need to buy to make this method of buying a little more cost effective. I certainly cannot see any harm at all in adding the occasional 'off the peg' sachet of cat food into the dietary mix now and again if it does not cause him tummy upsets which it does not appear to do.

Personally I have been a little upset by the suggestion that cats fed ordinary cat foods are somehow being deprived. As I said, my two elder girls were both 21 when they left us, rarely needed the vets for anything whatsoever and in the case of my senior girl between annual check ups I don't think she ever saw the vet. She had a heart murmur from birth and was fit as a flea. I really don't like the implication that those who feed the whiskas/Felix/kitekat type of brands are almost guilty of pet abuse. I adored the bones of my three girls and would have run into a burning building to save them so I do rather take issue that I was in some way neglectful in my care of them during their lives because I fed them the only food that was available at the time which did them no harm whatsoever that a keen observer could see.

I am certainly open to new dietary ideas for my new boy and of course, keen to ensure he has the best diet I can afford but there does seem to be an awful lot of finger wagging going on. I think there is a danger in everyone getting so entrenched in their own point of view [guilty of that myself of course] that we don't recognise that everyone's circumstances are different, everyone's pets are different and everyone's viewpoint is different.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

> I do also have some concerns about the welfare of the animals that go into my cat's food. We are told we have higher welfare standards in the UK for meat production etc - not sure I'm entirely convinced on that but at least we do have some welfare standards - and I'm a little concerned that foods sourced from abroad may come from abattoirs etc that would not stand up to scrutiny.


Honestly, I have no idea where this comes from but from what I can gather, Bozita is Swedish which has very high standards for meat production, as does Germany. I would be more worried about mass produced British meat production.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Celador said:


> I was going to post something very similar!
> 
> I am far from an expert on cat food and am still trying to learn as much as I can. So you can take my opinion with a pinch of salt!
> 
> ...


Agreed Celador. But personally, I think it is more to do with the type of food that is being fed (dry vs wet) than the place where it is being obtained from (supermarket vs other places for higher quality food). Personally, if I had to choose one food than I would rather feed supermarket wet food (though I would try to find the one with no sugars, no grains and the highest possible meat content) over even the best dry food, largely because of the moisture content and the fact that even the best dry food tends to have higher carbs than the "average" wet food.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

NIKKID said:


> I do also have some concerns about the welfare of the animals that go into my cat's food. We are told we have higher welfare standards in the UK for meat production etc - not sure I'm entirely convinced on that but at least we do have some welfare standards - and I'm a little concerned that foods sourced from abroad may come from abattoirs etc that would not stand up to scrutiny.
> 
> HRH does like the *Bozita, Miamor and Porta 21*


 And because you are concerned about the welfare standards in abattoirs abroad you are choosing to feed a Swedish food and 2 German ones?

That aside, standards are tightly regulated within Europe and no country is really better than another, though some countries or rather manufacturers go further than the regulatory requirements.

If you are worried about the origin of the meat you are feeding, then I would suggest you closely read the labels. The pet UK food, Applaws, for example, uses chicken from Thailand in their wet food; while another UK pet food manufacturer, Lily's Kitchen uses UK sourced organic meat.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

NIKKID said:


> Personally I have been a little upset by the suggestion that cats fed ordinary cat foods are somehow being deprived. As I said, my two elder girls were both 21 when they left us, rarely needed the vets for anything whatsoever and in the case of my senior girl between annual check ups I don't think she ever saw the vet. She had a heart murmur from birth and was fit as a flea. I really don't like the implication that those who feed the whiskas/Felix/kitekat type of brands are almost guilty of pet abuse. I adored the bones of my three girls and would have run into a burning building to save them so I do rather take issue that I was in some way neglectful in my care of them during their lives because I fed them the only food that was available at the time which did them no harm whatsoever that a keen observer could see.
> 
> I am certainly open to new dietary ideas for my new boy and of course, keen to ensure he has the best diet I can afford but there does seem to be an awful lot of finger wagging going on. I think there is a danger in everyone getting so entrenched in their own point of view [guilty of that myself of course] that we don't recognise that everyone's circumstances are different, everyone's pets are different and everyone's viewpoint is different.


You have summed up the way I felt through this whole conversation there. I have not appriciated the implication that I am depriving my cat of the nutrition she needs or of a healthy life.

As I have stated quite a few times, different cats can tolerate different things, all cats are different and owners will eventually know exactly what foods are best for their furry friends.

I would say carry on as you are, if something is wrong with the food you are feeding your boy, he will soon let you know in some way. Stick to your guns - you seem to be doing the right thing.


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## Celador (May 12, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Agreed Celador. But personally, I think it is more to do with the type of food that is being fed (dry vs wet) than the place where it is being obtained from (supermarket vs other places for higher quality food). Personally, if I had to choose one food than I would rather feed supermarket wet food (though I would try to find the one with no sugars, no grains and the highest possible meat content) over even the best dry food, largely because of the moisture content and the fact that even the best dry food tends to have higher carbs than the "average" wet food.


True! I suppose if I were to add one thing to my post it would be that I'm not expert enough to tell the OP what the difference is between higher quality wet and lower quality wet.

E.g is the difference between Felix and Mac's equivalent to the difference between a large Big Mac Meal with a vanilla milkshake and a plate of steamed chicken and vegetables. Or is it much more subtle, like the difference between Coco Pops and Rice Krispies 

That's what I am not really qualified to determine  all that matters really to me is that there is an actual difference in quality.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Celador said:


> True! I suppose if I were to add one thing to my post it would be that I'm not expert enough to tell the OP what the difference is between *higher quality wet and lower quality wet*.
> 
> E.g is the difference between Felix and Mac's equivalent to the difference between a large Big Mac Meal with a vanilla milkshake and a plate of steamed chicken and vegetables. Or is it much more subtle, like the difference between Coco Pops and Rice Krispies
> 
> That's what I am not really qualified to determine  all that matters really to me is that there is an actual difference in quality.


Well, as I keep saying, it depends on how you define "good" food and what your goalposts are:

1) If they are the most basic claim that the food is "complete", meaning that it contains the nutrients a cat needs to maintain its health, than they both are on par.

2) If you don't just take the complete claim for granted because you know that there could be different levels of nutrients in the food - ie. satisfying basic need vs containing optimal levels vs containing too much, than a comparison between the two becomes more difficult as both only give you basic level of information (macronutrient and if you are lucky macromineral) but not the detailed information (at amino acid, vitamin and trace element level) that you would need to make a sound judgement (which incidentally is the reason for the mantra to rotate different brands of food)

3) If in addition to the completeness label and the macronutrient analysis you look at the declared ingredients, than one outshines the other as the likes of Macs is more transparent about the ingredients than say Whiskas who are hiding behind declaring only the statutory minimum. So, if "good" or "high quality" means that you know what you are feeding, than Macs wins hands down as with the likes of Macs you don't just know what animal meats they contain but also in terms of proportion: how much meat the food contains vs how much offal. They also declare exactly what offal (i.e. byproducts) they are using.

4) If in addition to the completeness label, the macronutrient analysis, the ingredients list you ask the manufacturer for more detailed information than again Macs wins hands down because they will tell you how they source their meat and from where while the likes of Whiskas are more likely to hide behind the cop-out clause of "proprietary information".

Personally, I think that your goalposts change depending on how much you start reading around the subject and how much you get involved with your cats' nutrition.

However, I would say, in response to your question about big mac vs plate of chicken, that really only applies when we talk about complementary vs complete foods. Just like a diet of just bic macs would not sustain a human nutritionally without adverse effects, neither would complementary food maintain the health of cat.

But I guess we could take it further as some consistency of foods are more nutritious than others - so for example, a food that is a pate food tends to be "better" food than say a food that is chunks in jelly because the latter will not only contain a whack of filler jelly that competes with the meaty chunks for space in the tin/pouch (and which at the end of the day is cheaper for manufacturers to include than the likes of meat) but it will also include ingredients to hold the compacted meaty chunks in shape. Since most supermarket foods are the latter ......


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## shyboots (Jun 29, 2011)

I mixed a tiny bit of Grau in with the gravy food last night and Biffy ate about 2 mouthfuls and that's it! He has eaten anything else that was out overnight - new flavours he wouldn't eat in the day time first time round like beef and rabbit. Boo!! However I was worried this might happen so he had dry out too (a mix of the Orijen and GoCat) and he devoured that. Maybe need to stop trying the high meat food for a bit and just focus on getting over from dry to wet, I think he will take the Orijen alone gradually so if I can get him onto about 2/3 wet and 1/3 dry, and the dry being Orijen...then try the high meat again. I'm probably just being impatient


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Earlier in the year after spending loads of time sorting a decent diet for my dog - I realised I had neglected to do the same for my cats. They were both coming up 13 an been fed supermarket brands all their life. I felt I owed it to them to have what I classed better food.

People here were very helpful and pointed me in the right direction.

Now for 13 year these cats have been healthy, bright eyed, bushy tailed with gleaming coats. I tried alternative brands until I found what they liked and gradually weaned them over. The transitional period and about a month afterward was shocking and I almost put them back to supermarket brands. They lost weight and were totally lacklustre. I stuck with it and gradually things started to change. 

They now look amazing, eat less and show less signs of old age. Instead of pestering at my feet continually for food they are a lot more contented too.

I have no idea if this will make them live any longer than if I hadnt changed but I feel better for giving them what a class as an improved diet and by the looks of things, they are happier too.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Ok, I'll admit off the bat that I got bored and irritated around p 5 and couldn't continue reading, so if someone else has already said this, I apologize.

I really don't get why people get so personally offended and defensive about what they feed their cat. It's almost as if they really do feel some guilt about feeding supermarket food, because they know that it's made from things like ash, and rendered god-knows-what (I hope rendering processes are better in the UK, but here, they throw diseased animals flea collars and all into the vat. Your can of "beef" can have some cat and dog in it too!). 

Clearly an animal can do well on junk food. Creatures are programmed to survive, no matter what. People are the same. I know plenty of people who live on nothing but takeout pizza, food from gas stations and soda. I also know of people who had impeccable diets and exercised daily and dropped dead at 40 from heart disease. Neither side should, however, be a ringing endorsement for eating nothing but junk food. And to say that a cat--any cat, not all cats- can't tolerate a high-meat content diet is patently silly. Just as someone making a claim that they get ill every time they try to eat something that's not from McDonalds means that they aren't built to eat vegetables and low-fat, low-sodium food is silly. Cats are carnivores. They are biologically built to eat meat and nothing more. If you feed them a food, and they do fine on it, but it's got a lot of corn and grain, then fine. They're doing ok. But that's not an indication that your cat is some sort of strange biological anomaly that can't tolerate meat. It's probably an indication that your cat just can't tolerate that particular meat, or a particular additive in the particular brand you tried. 

If a person who eats a high fat, low nutrient rich diet tries to switch, they will have the poops, they will have a lot of gas, they might get cramping and feel poorly for a little while. It's just transitional. But it doesn't mean that they are healthier and should stay eating McDonalds because they "feel better" and "like it better".


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> Ok, I'll admit off the bat that I got bored and irritated around p 5 and couldn't continue reading, so if someone else has already said this, I apologize.
> 
> I really don't get why people get so personally offended and defensive about what they feed their cat. It's almost as if they really do feel some guilt about feeding supermarket food, because they know that it's made from things like ash, and rendered god-knows-what (I hope rendering processes are better in the UK, but here, they throw diseased animals flea collars and all into the vat. Your can of "beef" can have some cat and dog in it too!).
> 
> ...


I see this is aimed at me....

Firstly - I feel no guilt in what I feed my cat.

Secondly - As I have stated, it was a particular brand which didnt agree with my cat hence why I moved her back onto a food which she is perfectly healthy on.

Thirdly - I have never, I repeat *NEVER* said my cat or any cat does not tolerate meat.

Like the original poster has said, there is alot of finger wagging going on here just because some people do not agree with the diets some people put their cats on. I am actually offended at the fact people are making it out to seem like I am somehow depriving my cat of a perfectly healthy life...

I have no issue what other people feed their cat unless what they feed is not in any way nutritional or healthy. So what gives anyone the right to judge me for my views and opinions which I have given due to NIKKID requesting them?

I haven't tried to tell anyone how to feed their cat, or turn them against feeding a high quality food... if you can re-read what I have said, you will see *I have spoken from personal experience*

So I would appriciate less of the judgements please...


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

kittyjay90 said:


> I see this is aimed at me....
> 
> Firstly - I feel no guilt in what I feed my cat.
> 
> ...


I'm not aiming anything at you personally. If you read what I said, I wrote that this happens in these discussions and it always appears that people have some sort of guilt or issue, but whatever the source, they seem defensive about what they are feeding their cat.

You can feed what you like. I don't know a soul personally who has a cat who feeds like we do. They think Friskies and Whiskas are just fine. They haven't read the labels, they don't know about what rendering plants do; they know it's cheap and their cats love it and their cats seem perfectly fine. Ditto the people I know who subsist on sugary soda, pizza and takeout from the petrol station. They seem perfectly fine, they are happy and they're eating what they like.

But what you might have taken personally is what I said about the meat intolerance. Believe me you are not the only person who has said such a thing, so again, it was NOT aimed at you. I was just reading and reading, and picked up the same comments that have been made before to the general tune of "my cat just doesn't do well on a lot of meat". It's not far off the mark from veterinary advice to NOT feed wet food, because it's too fattening, or that more carbs will fill up your cat and make it lose weight. Look, if vets don't get it right, then you should not feel persecuted or belittled if you aren't a nutrition expert. But the point I picked up on is one that's common and I'm just saying it's silly. That's all


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## salkei (Apr 15, 2011)

From my point of view and opinion, i was one of those people that had no idea the supermaket brands were not as nutrionous as the adverts lead us to believe. I had always fed, Whiskas, felix, Go cat etc as they are the 'brands' always advertised. It was only when i found this forum and read the brillant threads about wet and dry foods that i started to look at what i was feeding and what it contained that i made the decision to try some of the brands from zooplus - just smilla and bozita to begin along with oriijen as my 3 love crunchy!

We then purchased some animonda which has gone down a storm, so i took the leap to practise my german and brough grantapet and petnatur. Again my 3 have taken to it like ducks to water, im sure that if i had carried on feeding the supermaket brands they would be just as happy, but now i have learnt that there are other options i am glad to have gone down that route, without some of the info i have gleaned from people on this forum i would not have been able to make that choice

We can only make choices when we have the information to hand - i dont think there is a right or wrong way just your own preference based on an informed choice


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

salkei said:


> From my point of view and opinion, i was one of those people that had no idea the supermaket brands were not as nutrionous as the adverts lead us to believe. I had always fed, Whiskas, felix, Go cat etc as they are the 'brands' always advertised. It was only when i found this forum and read the brillant threads about wet and dry foods that i started to look at what i was feeding and what it contained that i made the decision to try some of the brands from zooplus - just smilla and bozita to begin along with oriijen as my 3 love crunchy!
> 
> We then purchased some animonda which has gone down a storm, so i took the leap to practise my german and brough grantapet and petnatur. Again my 3 have taken to it like ducks to water, im sure that if i had carried on feeding the supermaket brands they would be just as happy, but now i have learnt that there are other options i am glad to have gone down that route, without some of the info i have gleaned from people on this forum i would not have been able to make that choice
> 
> We can only make choices when we have the information to hand - i dont think there is a right or wrong way just your own preference based on an informed choice


Gawd, I lurrve a story like your's.  Keep it up Salkei


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## salkei (Apr 15, 2011)

just thought i would try and show the positives that i have got from reading this forum. 

im no angel or expert on anything so will always take on board advice that is sensible


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## missye87 (Apr 4, 2011)

I have two maine coons and they eat 400g of food a day. Depending on which brand I feed, it costs me £1 - £1.60 a day. The higher end is Grau, lower end is Smilla and Schmusy, ask pretty decent foods. I also feed Macs which costs me somewhere I'm between. Usually I mix it up, so costs me £1.30 a day per cat and its pretty good quality


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

salkei said:


> From my point of view and opinion, i was one of those people that had no idea the supermaket brands were not as nutrionous as the adverts lead us to believe. I had always fed, Whiskas, felix, Go cat etc as they are the 'brands' always advertised. It was only when i found this forum and read the brillant threads about wet and dry foods that i started to look at what i was feeding and what it contained that i made the decision to try some of the brands from zooplus - just smilla and bozita to begin along with oriijen as my 3 love crunchy!
> 
> We then purchased some animonda which has gone down a storm, so i took the leap to practise my german and brough grantapet and petnatur. Again my 3 have taken to it like ducks to water, im sure that if i had carried on feeding the supermaket brands they would be just as happy, but now i have learnt that there are other options i am glad to have gone down that route, without some of the info i have gleaned from people on this forum i would not have been able to make that choice
> 
> We can only make choices when we have the information to hand - i dont think there is a right or wrong way just your own preference based on an informed choice


Exactly, it's down to personal choice, no one is bashing anyone for feeding supermarket food, just pointing out that it isn't the best because IT ISN'T, that's just a fact you can't get away from, it's not a personal attack.

However, there are compromises that everyone has to make, if you were to feed a true species appropriate food then it would have to be raw but a lot of people (including me) can't or won't do that for whatever reason, personally I just don't feel confident that I would be able to source the right food for him all the time and he won't eat the pre-made raw minces so the compromise is a high quality commercial food (well several different ones) and the right amount of raw that doesn't compromise the 'complete' foods he eats.

The reason that a lot of us are wary of all the 'my cat's ok on supermarket food' comments is because it may encourage others to feed it based on the wrong information.


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## NIKKID (Jun 5, 2011)

Thanks to everyone who has joined in on this thread. 


In the short time I have been on this forum I have found so much of interest and a lot of useful info BUT I have also encountered a great deal of what I can only describe and 'snobbery' about certain issues, particularly this issue of feeding. It may be just my reading of this but it does seem that some folk convey the impression that they are better or more caring cat-parents because they feed certain foodstuffs and sneer at those who find this difficult for various reasons - whether anyone else would accept these reasons as valid or not. 

Having had cat-mates for over 30 years I am still keen to learn new things and take on board new ideas which is what led me to post this thread in the first place. What I don't need, as I mentioned before, is a lot of finger wagging and comments which seem designed to suggest that those who do things differently are somehow neglectful of their pet's care. 


Initially when I posted this thread I hoped to gain differing opinions and thoughts on a subject that is quite new to me, however some of the comments today have upset me hugely and, frankly, life is far too short. I always endeavoured to do right by my three girls of sainted memory and I shall continue to do the same with their new little brother. Sadly, though, I will go forward without input from this forum and will not make any further postings.

Many thanks to those who have been helpful without being superior. I valued your opinions and I wish you all the best.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

I've yet to find someone who finds feeding higher quality foods 'difficult' in your own words.

You clearly knew it was a sensitive issue as you put you were probably 'opening a can of worms' yet when that indeed happened, as I assume you feel, you decide to leave the forum??

Honestly, I am a food snob, if you want to call it that. I call it wanting to do the best I can for my cats. My cats can't choose their food, like I can, so I have to choose for them and I will choose the best I can.


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## demaya (May 3, 2011)

NIKKID I think you take it all to personally. I am sure you are good to your cats.  Please stay on this forum because every experience is important, for example I found it very interesting that one of yours cats, who was on supermarket food lived 21 years.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I cant,personally see what is snobbish about wanting to feed the "best" possible food available that is accepted by your /my cat.I dont know for sure ,but,after asking advice from hobbs I changed my boy on to grain free dry food( he does eat wet ,but not enough ,as he isnt overly keen)and the change in his behaviour is quite marked.If you ask for "opinions" you will get opinions,on an internet forum, you dont get to choose these opinions.There are a lot of excellent foods on the market,unfortunately these are not available in your local supermarket so a bit of effort has to go into acquiring them.While I agree that supermarket foods will give your cat the basic requirements,surely now that you know there are better alternatives out there you should be happy to try to feed these instead.After all some of them will actually be cheaper in the long run.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> I'm not aiming anything at you personally. If you read what I said, I wrote that this happens in these discussions and *it always appears that people have some sort of guilt or issue, but whatever the source, they seem defensive about what they are feeding their cat.*
> 
> You can feed what you like. I don't know a soul personally who has a cat who feeds like we do. They think Friskies and Whiskas are just fine. They haven't read the labels, they don't know about what rendering plants do; they know it's cheap and their cats love it and their cats seem perfectly fine. Ditto the people I know who subsist on sugary soda, pizza and takeout from the petrol station. They seem perfectly fine, they are happy and they're eating what they like.
> 
> But what you might have taken personally is what I said about the meat intolerance. *Believe me you are not the only person who has said such a thing, so again, it was NOT aimed at you.* I was just reading and reading, and picked up the same comments that have been made before to the general tune of "my cat just doesn't do well on a lot of meat". It's not far off the mark from veterinary advice to NOT feed wet food, because it's too fattening, or that more carbs will fill up your cat and make it lose weight. Look, if vets don't get it right, then you should not feel persecuted or belittled if you aren't a nutrition expert. But the point I picked up on is one that's common and I'm just saying it's silly. That's all


Two points I have highlighted in your above post...

You mention that pet owners *always* have some sort of guilt or issue with what they feed their cat and get defensive. Again I tell you, I have no guilt (or issue for that matter). I have been defensive as I have felt as though the comments I have given (which was asked for) have been attacked and made it seem like I have done wrong for what I chose to feed my cat. I have given my opinions and thoughts which have clearly been valued by NIKKID but somehow, other pet owners wish to make it seem as though I am somehow depriving my cat.

Secondly - I would like you to please find and quote me where I have said "my cat (or any other cat) has an intolerance to meat." do you think I am that stupid? Seriously..! :shocked: I am not going to repeat exactly what I have said, as it's all in Black and White to read again but I have explained my reasons for what I wish to feed and stated how it was a particular brand which didn't agree with my girl.

I came on this forum looking for a place to have a friendly chat with fellow slaves to cats and instead I'm feeling hostility and I am frankly quite upset with the atmosphere and reaction to my experiences. It seems to be 'my way or the highway' on here and I really think people's attitudes need to change if newer members are to carry on in this "community".

I can honestly understand why NIKKID won't be posting on here again - she asked for opinions and thoughts and in return got hostility, upset and anger. Such a shame....


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Kittyjay I have quoted this bit to you time and time again



> Surely, just like us humans, its down to what your cat can tolerate... Some cats will not be able to have Whiska's or Felix, some wont be able to have the higher meat content foods.


Its simply not true. This is where you said some cats cannot tolerate high meat content food, implying that high meat content can be an issue.


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

No, she got facts, she has simply taken it as hostility. 

When a fellow member has put such a huge amount of time and effort into producing information for the benefit of all of our cats why would we say 'yeah supermarket brands are fine'


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## PolkaDotty (Jun 24, 2011)

Wow!

I can totally understand where NIKKID and kittyjay are coming from. 

While some of the posts are helpful, informative and tactful....others come across as aggressively snobby and self-righteous.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Kittyjay I have quoted this bit to you time and time again
> 
> Its simply not true. This is where you said some cats cannot tolerate high meat content food, implying that high meat content can be an issue.


And yet I have explained time and time again that I did not know off the top of my head the particular brands names to mention. As I stated before, on the other side I only mentioned Whiska's and Felix but did not mention for example Tesco's or Morrisons....

I seriously think you should not take things said literally... Stop jumping down throats of people who share experiences which you don't necessarily agree with. It's not like I'm feeding my cat a veggie diet is it?!

I totally understand what the person under GM's post says about time and effort into information on here, but when a person asks for any thoughts and experiences - I will give my own.

All your info is great, but it is ok to feed supermarket food, I know from experience and so does NIKKID obviously. Did no-one else read the fact her cat lived on Whiska's until the age of 21 and hardly ever needed the vets?

Let people have discussions without the gangs and hostile messages on here...


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Some people don't want to settle for 'ok' for their cats.

Like I said, people can feed their cats whatever they want. They don't need to rave and defend it, Nikkid asked for opinions, and that is what she got. Just because they werent 'supermarket' friendly doesnt mean they arent valid.

Your opinions are valid too, but I feel poorly worded and I do not want people to be put off generic 'high meat content food' (which IS what you said, whether you could think of a bran or not) and worry it will upset their cats. As someone else mentioned, it has been said by others before this idea of 'rich' food which is tosh! I would expect to be taken to task also if I said 'some cats can't tolerate supermarket brands of food' as unless I had tried every type, I would not be qualified to make that statement.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

Rave and defend..?!

You're implying I was raving and defending?

Excuse me but I simply gave my personal experience to which you jumped down my throat at and began to slate!

Maybe my wording wasn't exact to your standards, but any person reading the conversation can see what I was putting across. This food snobbery has just gotten out of hand! Sure give the information to people so they can make choices, but when someone doesn't do the choice that you would - I don't think it warrants a hostile reception.

You forget the point of this original post - *thoughts and opinions*. So if I give a thought and opinions which you do not like - you have no right to try and correct it, as it's my own thought...


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

I can't make head nor tail of this I really can't.

Only one person made wild assumptions about a whole range of cat foods. That was you, saying some cats cant tolerate high meat content diets. I said it was completely untrue.

If that is me jumping down your throat and slagging off your food choice, then okay, I did that.


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

For gods sake I am going to say this the last time...

*I did not know the names of brands to list - on the other side I only mentioned 2 brands I could think of!!!!* so surely if you're annoyed about that, you'd be annoyed about the other side too...

You can clearly see what I have meant all along after I have constantly repeated myself but no, it's not good enough is it?!

:mad2:


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

kittyjay90 said:


> Rave and defend..?!
> 
> You're implying I was raving and defending?
> 
> ...


Think of it this way: what if you came on a forum on child rearing and you asked a question about whether nutrition and diet were important, because your child eats nothing but chicken McNuggets and fries from McDonalds and he's never had so much as a cold. And then people proceeded to tell you that your child, while getting the minimum of nutrients he needs, probably isn't eating the best food. So then, you respond with "well, he's never sick and I feel this is best for him." Would you think everyone who gave you an opinion to the contrary was hostile and snobby? I sure hope not.

Again, I'll cavalierly use the word "always" about those who get defensive on this topic. Yes, it seems that people who feed supermarket food to their cat (or dog) always get defensive when told about better alternatives, as if they feel personally attacked. It's especially ironic when they ask for opinions and then feel persecuted when all the opinions are not of the "yay, supermarket food is just fine!" variety. It's an internet forum. People have differences of opinion. Some of those differences are not simply opinions, but are backed up by science.

On a sidenote, it's a little funny to me (in a :mad2: funny way, not haha) that discussions on a UK list always come back to raw feeding as the most natural, complete and best way to feed our pets, yet here in the states, if I so much as mention it on certain forums as a possibility, I'm told it will give my pet worms at best, kill it outright at worst, that it's dangerous for me, my family, and what comes out of a bag is created in a lab and therefor the best thing for my pet as it's complete and balanced. I will say that these yanks don't do any real research--they just say things like "I feel like my cat looks better on Iams" or "I feel like raw is dangerous" or "I fed it to my dog one day and he got worms! No thanks!"


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## kittyjay90 (Jun 19, 2011)

I am not going to explain any further as I am just repeating myself but I will say;

I never asked any advice but instead gave my own - yes *my own* thoughts and opinions which where asked in the original post.


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

And we gave ours, but somehow we're snobs for doing so


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## salkei (Apr 15, 2011)

Guys

this is the great thing about a fourm, we can all give our own views and opinions, we all do what we think is best for our cats based on what we know. As i said before i used to feed supermarket food and my 3 were fine on it, since i found this forum i have found out that there are other options available to me and have decided to go along that route.

There is no right or wrong way only personal preference, im sure other newbies who ask for opinions on feeding can be directed to the extensive threads on the subject and then draw their own conclusions from the information there. 
Thars what i did.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

The wonderful A-Z threads are here to educate those who seek out information about which foods are healthier and better quality, but in the end it comes down to individuals what they choose to feed their cats.

As long as the cats are being fed enough and are getting a complete diet then personally I see it as an individual person's choice what they feed their cats. Others can only make suggestions and try to guide people to try certain foods which may be better. And if they are willing to try those foods out on their cats, then half the battle is won IMHO! 

I suppose after reading the nutrition section on here I have become a bit of a food "snob" myself... but at the same time I understand why some people find it more convenient to feed supermarket brands. I work full-time and find it really faffy having to re-arrange ZooPlus deliveries, so would absolutely love to buy my kittens' food with the weekly shop at Tesco, believe me! However I am a new cat slave and have never bought cat food at a supermarket anyway, apart from the few boxes of Felix to ease the transition when we first got our kittens. So maybe I don't notice it as much as someone who is used to buying their pet food with the weekly shop.

I am non-confrontational by nature and would never try to push something on someone. Most of my friends with cats feed Whiskas or Go-Kat and although I think it would be nice for them to try better foods, I can't bring myself to be an activist as I want to keep my friends. 

Plus I have only been a cat slave for a short time while most of my friends have had cats for years - so I worry they may look at what I'm feeding them and think "I've never heard of this "Grau" stuff and I don't understand the label - it must be rubbish and, being a new cat owner, she must have bought some cheap foreign crap from down Lidl which I wouldn't touch with a bargepole."

But I do try to gently mention what our cats eat as being of a higher meat content and I have pointed people in the direction of Hobbs' A-Z if they've been curious. Usually, it's a losing battle. I can't preach to people as I hate being preached to myself, but I like trying to get people to think about things differently and explore different options.

I think it would be an insurmountable challenge to tackle everyone feeding solely Go-Kat dry biscuits to move immediately to feeding whole prey model raw food. But maybe those feeding Go-Kat might consider trying Orijen, or working some supermarket brand wet food into their cats' diets... baby steps.

To *NIKKID* and *kittyjay90*, what works for you is what works for you. If you're willing to try the higher quality foods (which you seem to be as you've tried them) then try them and see if your cats like them and are well on them. If it's convenient for you to buy them, and within your budget, and your cats enjoy and are well on them, that's great. You're already doing better than 99% of cat owners by just trying. If your cats can't tolerate Grau or Smilla or Bozita, then don't feed those foods. I think it's all about experimentation... about seeing what they like, what you can afford, and unfortunately being willing to waste a bit of money if you buy something your cats won't eat.  Any foods which our cats don't eat have gone into a box to be donated to the local animal shelter so I don't really see it as waste to be honest.

But personally I think that by even considering trying some better foods you are already doing better than most people.  I have the benefit of never having had cats before so can see things with fresh eyes. I have never had a cat on supermarket brand food before because I've never had a cat! So I suppose the transition to this way of thinking was much easier for me, than it is for others!

I hope you won't leave the forum.  I know that when opinions differ, things can get heated on here, but I think it's only because we're all cat lovers and want to help each other do the very best for our animals.


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## Sadie SU (May 15, 2011)

I'm walking a middle path here...... have changed from Tesco Finest wet food bought with the shopping, and now feed Nature's Menu bought once every three weeks or so from Pets at Home.... and the kibble has changed from Tesco Finest to Applaws.... and I supplement that with occasional raw treats like chicken wings or a bit of beef mince from the supermarket. It's mainly the kitten who eats the raw food, but that suits me as he's the one I'm trying to pile calories into.

I think it's changing to the high meat content/grain free kibble that's had the most visible impact.... the young adult girl had started to look distinctly porky on the ad-lib rations that I leave out for them to graze on while we're at work. Her belly has gone right back down to normal proportions in the last month. 

I shall get round to trying the online sources of high meat content wet food at some point, but am reluctant to start buying in high quantities of stuff that the cats might turn their nose up at. Just can't afford to discard food at the moment. And on that note, if finances got tighter than they are now I wouldn't hesitiate to put the cats back onto supermarket rations until we had a bit more dosh. Just like we have to make do with Tesco Value when times is 'ard, and get Waitrose food when we're a bit more flush.


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

My boys were quite happy with the Hills SP and Felix they were fed at the shelter. Like others, I only really knew the supermarket brands I had fed to my childhood cat 21 years ago (no internet; no other choice!)

However, for me personally, after finding out more about better food quality and easy availability I wanted to try different varieties of better quality foods. Luckily my boys were happy to eat the new foods, and had no health issues from eating it either. They get both dry and wet food each day.

I think if they had digestive problems I may have tried once more, but then stuck with what they were happy with in all honesty. I would have then left it until they were a bit older and then tried again. If this failed, I probably would not have tried again, as I know our old cat was very healthy on the supermarket brands he was fed his whole life.

In terms of cost, I actually find doing the foods in rotation and buying in bulk is saving me money. It isn't as cheap as Felix, but I am feeding them less of it so I think it all evens out in the end. Buying online is also a great excuse to throw in the odd toy to bulk up the order


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## Pheebs (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm pretty much with Sadie Su here. I'm feeding Nature's Menu, Hi-life and Applaws dry. I throw in the odd bit of Whiskas as well as a neighbour gave me loads of it. She wolfs everything down.

She looks good on this diet, her coat is very shiny and silky.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I also was not aware of the extent of the "badness" of supermarket food and even veterinary diets until I came to this forum. I thought because I fed my cat Hills Science, that I was doing the *best I could*. I found the info and advice on the forums very helpful. Trying to improve my cats' diet has been an uphill battle (still ongoing) and I have taken on board the advice here as *best I could*.
However, some things are not practically possible for my particular circumstances. My cats prefer dry food, so that is what they get with a wet breakfast and dinner. I took the forum's advice and found an importer of Orijen, so that is what they eat. There is no way I can get Smilla or Grau or any of the other Swedish/German foods in this country. I therefore have to make do with what is available in the spirit of the *best I can do*. I have tried homemade, raw and found organic, holistic and even kosher grainfree wet food. My cats will not eat it under any circumstances. I am sorry, but I will not feed my cats dead baby chicks and mice (not that they would eat it). I have to draw a line there.
So they eat a variety of wet foods: supermarket, Royal Canin pouches and Fancy Feast. I realised I was becoming overstressed about their food and so have made a conscious decision to do the best I can and to stop worrying myself sick about it.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2011)

When we got Lola she was on tesco brand pate food, I slowly changed her to Hills Science Plan, and both she and Pixie are doing fab on it, although I also give Pixie applaws kitten.


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## CazandMark (Jul 7, 2011)

Wow - what a thread!! 

Well, here is my view as a 'new' kitten owner: I compare it to the whole 'breast is best' argument when people have children. There are strong arguments for high meat content, for wet as opposed to dry, for everything really.

I've had a vet tell me dry is best. A friend of mine with 2 cats feeds them Science Plan dry as her vet told her that meat ends up causing more problems than it solves. Complete contradictions to the learned people on this forum.

Personally, we've moved Hunter and Hermione onto wet and they seem to be better for it. We haven't gone down the Zooplus route yet but are choosing food from PAH.

Every cat is different, some have intolerances, some like chunks, some like pate, some love cheap food, have no medical problems and won't touch other brands and vice versa.

I think that cat owners should take on board advice given and just do what they can in their circumstances and based on what their cats like. We won't go down the Raw diet path and we might not end up buying the German or Swedish brands...but.....

the valuable feedback given means that we think a little bit more about our kittens and will read the labels and show a bit more interest in the nutritional content of foods. 

Surely that is what forums like these are all about? We aren't politicians trying to convert citizens, we're just people that all care about our cats.


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