# Anesthesia Free Teeth Cleaning



## SantinaPoodles (Feb 5, 2010)

Having moved to the UK from the States, I have had someone cleaning my dogs teeth without anesthesia for many years. Having had numerous poodles over the years, I found this type of cleaning to be every bit as good as the standard "knock them out" cleaning only much much less costly.
Does anyone know if this service is available in the UK and especially in SE London / Kent?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

What does the procedure entail exactly?


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Twenty five years ago my vet used to do a descale without knocking the cat out just as part of the normal annual check up and jabs. I think these days vets are nervous of putting their hand in a cat's mouth without knocking it out first. We humans have a scale and polish without anaesthetic, of course.


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## SantinaPoodles (Feb 5, 2010)

As far as what is entailed (excellent pun by the way) the woman who did my dogs has what she refers to as a "rotating practice". She travels from groomer to groomer spending 1 day at each per month. The charge for each dog was approximately 35 US. 
She would sit on the floor with the dog on it's back between her legs. She had a very unique bite block made of a plastic material which was inserted into the animals mouth so that they could not close their jaws. She would then scale and polish the animals teeth. If the animal had any type of gum disease, they were referred to a Vet.
My dogs all loved going to see her and have their teeth cleaned and it was so much safer for them since there was no use of anesthesia. I guess that I expected this type of service to exist in a Nation of animal lovers. I hate the idea of having to "knock out" my dogs, putting them at extreme risk, just to clean their teeth.


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## wooliewoo (May 27, 2008)

I know that my mums dogs have had teeth cleaning with sedation before so they are "chilled" out without being knocked out i think she had a groomer that did that. Not sure if she still does as the dogs have got use to the procedure now and mum can manage to do teeth herself routinely


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

SantinaPoodles said:


> As far as what is entailed (excellent pun by the way) the woman who did my dogs has what she refers to as a "rotating practice". She travels from groomer to groomer spending 1 day at each per month. The charge for each dog was approximately 35 US.
> She would sit on the floor with the dog on it's back between her legs. She had a very unique bite block made of a plastic material which was inserted into the animals mouth so that they could not close their jaws. She would then scale and polish the animals teeth. If the animal had any type of gum disease, they were referred to a Vet.
> My dogs all loved going to see her and have their teeth cleaned and it was so much safer for them since there was no use of anesthesia. I guess that I expected this type of service to exist in a Nation of animal lovers. I hate the idea of having to "knock out" my dogs, putting them at extreme risk, just to clean their teeth.


Sounds more sophisticated than what my vet did. He just yanked their mouth open and got on with the job, over in no time (I'm talking about animals which had a basically healthy mouth apart from the plaque). I don't know why vets have taken to using anaesthesia. I can't see why it's an animal welfare issue (except in the negative sense as you point out) and I think it is because vets nowadays are more nervous of injury, plus it's more profitable to charge £150 for a descale than to include it as a free extra along with annual jabs. My old vet had worked with farm animals and wasn't scared of dogs and cats.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I dont think it is an issue with most people as dogs only tend to get their teeth done here when they are desperately in need and probably need extractions too. A lot of people clean their own dogs teeth regularly though so why dont you do yours. Or feed a bone, that does the same job.
I have never had a dogs teeth scaled by the vet in 40 years of multi dog ownership - I just feed a bone if they get yucky.


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## dinks (Apr 10, 2009)

Lulu's owner said:


> Sounds more sophisticated than what my vet did. He just yanked their mouth open and got on with the job, over in no time (I'm talking about animals which had a basically healthy mouth apart from the plaque). I don't know why vets have taken to using anaesthesia. I can't see why it's an animal welfare issue (except in the negative sense as you point out) and I think it is because vets nowadays are more nervous of injury, plus it's more profitable to charge £150 for a descale than to include it as a free extra along with annual jabs. My old vet had worked with farm animals and wasn't scared of dogs and cats.


The problem with animals teeth is you will not know if a tooth needs extracted until the plaque is removed- humans can say they have a sore mouth dogs/cats cant!You have to be careful when descaling and polishing as if the polisher is not used correctly this can actually damage the surface of the tooth and encourage more plaque to settle in that area.Unfortunately dogs and cats - well most lol- wont sit still to do this.


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

I read on another forum that it was necessary for the dog to be under so that they can clean below the gum line, but i don't know if thats the case or not.


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## dinks (Apr 10, 2009)

Yep thats right.In order to effectively descale teeth the scaler needs to be used just below the gum line as this is where the plaque starts to build up -as you can imagine it wouldnt be very comfortable conscious and a small amount of bleeding does occur - very small though!Likewise the polisher should be used for the same amount of time on each individual tooth in order to smooth the surface of the tooth to prevent further development of plaque in that area.However if the pets teeth are looked after from day one then this avoids the need for descale and polish altogether.I dont brush my dogs teeth however he is on dry food and has plenty of chews an dthey are nice and clean teeth.Some dogs - particularly small breeds eg yorkies because of their small mouth just seem to be more prone to dental disease though- dont know if thats down to diet or not - my feeling is probably yes as they are less likely to be fed dry as they are pretty fussy guys!


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## Snoopies (Oct 17, 2011)

Vets use of anaesthetic is frequently unnecessary. The percentage of dogs that will allow dental procedures such as cleaning, de-scaling and polishing WITHOUT being "Knocked Out" is remarkably high.
2Hounds - it is not always necessary for the dog to be under so that they can clean below the gum line! We carry out the procedure on many Dogs without any form of anaesthetic or sedative with equally good results AND safely without risks (unless the dog bites, then the risk is ours!!!) at half the cost at least!! 
In answer to "Dinks" - although wrong in the issue of not being able to effectively descale without anaesthetic, you are right that you will not know if a tooth needs to be extracted until the plaque is removed. However, the amount of dogs that DO NOT need an extraction, against those that do means that it is worth pursuing from an overall risk factor. For anaesthetic free canine teeth cleaning contact the Pet care Clinic on 01026 251941. (Based near Colchester, Essex)


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I have Kite's teeth descaled without anaesthetic; it's been done twice now. I hold Kite and she's fine with it. The person who does it, I meet her at agility shows, midlands and north - but not sure where she lives. She's a dental hygienist who's branched out into dogs. Charged £30 I think last summer (and she helped fit a new water pump on my caravan while she was at it)! 
I'll PM you her contact details.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I am not an expert, but as far as I know, it is illegal for anyone, other than a registered veterinary surgeon to "treat" an animal in the UK. I think this would fall under the category of treatment. This is the reason that elope setting themselves up as equine dentists are breaking the law unless they are also vets.



This is my understanding of the UK law.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

Sorry I can't provide a link from here, but the info is all on the RCVS we pages. There are some exceptions to this, but these are really to cover vet nurses, farriers and agricultural workers.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Old Shep said:


> I am not an expert, but as far as I know, it is illegal for anyone, other than a registered veterinary surgeon to "treat" an animal in the UK. I think this would fall under the category of treatment. This is the reason that elope setting themselves up as equine dentists are breaking the law unless they are also vets.
> 
> This is my understanding of the UK law.


You are nearly right but equine dentists are not breaking the law unless they extract a tooth or do other treatment. They are allowed to rasp and clean teeth.


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## Snoopies (Oct 17, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> I am not an expert, but as far as I know, it is illegal for anyone, other than a registered veterinary surgeon to "treat" an animal in the UK. I think this would fall under the category of treatment. This is the reason that elope setting themselves up as equine dentists are breaking the law unless they are also vets.
> 
> This is my understanding of the UK law.


Teeth cleaning without anaesthetic, including the use of ultrasonic scalers is not considered invasive and as such, is not illegal. However, it would not be good idea to allow someone without knowledge of the procedure to carry it out!!
At the first sign of any area that may need alternative procedure, the animal should be referred to a vet for diagnosis and treatment, which underlines the importance of this being carried out by someone who is qualified to do so. Our on site Vet nurse carries out cleaning, de-scaling and polishing without anaesthetic, successfully and with the approval of the RCVS.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Anaesthesia-free teeth cleaning does not enable a full clean. It does not allow X-rays to be taken of any abnormal findings, it does not allow for full scaling and polishing of the lingual/palatal aspects of the teeth, it does not enable full subgingival curettage.

Good for the percentage of crowns that you can see. Next to useless for the rest of the mouth.

Not a fan, sorry!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Blitz said:


> You are nearly right but equine dentists are not breaking the law unless they extract a tooth or do other treatment. They are allowed to rasp and clean teeth.


And hardly ever needing sedation, not even my big wuss!



Shoshannah said:


> Anaesthesia-free teeth cleaning does not enable a full clean. It does not allow X-rays to be taken of any abnormal findings, it does not allow for full scaling and polishing of the lingual/palatal aspects of the teeth, it does not enable full subgingival curettage.
> 
> Good for the percentage of crowns that you can see. Next to useless for the rest of the mouth.
> 
> Not a fan, sorry!


Yet horses are seen by a dentist annually and not given anaesthetics. My horse's teeth have yet to fall out. 

They too use the block (big scary looking metal thing) to prevent the horse closing the mouth. Being bitten by a horse is very nasty!

I would suggest that you could train your dog to accept brushing-very useful.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

cinnamontoast said:


> And hardly ever needing sedation, not even my big wuss!
> 
> Yet horses are seen by a dentist annually and not given anaesthetics. My horse's teeth have yet to fall out.
> 
> ...


I don't have a dog, but I am a big advocate of daily brushing. 

I haven't done any equine dental work in a looong while, and never did anything more than routine rasping, but it's a bit easier to get your hand in the mouth of a quiet, gagged horse than a frightened cat. :lol:


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Sure, but treatment is possible without anaesthetic on many dogs, even a full scale. Two of mine would be fine, I would think.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Thinking on this...

I guess an anaesthesia-free scale and polish can ***HELP*** to maintain dental health, but I have a big issue with people selling it as an acceptable substitute for a proper dental assessment, cleaning and treatment under GA, combined with an appropriate home care regime.

It is misleading, and not in the interest of the dog.

Here's just one pic I found of a dog who has had annual conscious teeth cleanings performed throughout his or her whole life.

Severe, grade 4 periodontal disease with furcation exposure. Teeth look pretty damn beautiful, but subgingival plaque and calculus has not been addressed appropriately and now these teeth have to come out.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

cinnamontoast said:


> Sure, but treatment is possible without anaesthetic on many dogs, even a full scale. Two of mine would be fine, I would think.


I agree. I've seen many conscious scales and polishes done in dogs, generally for the purpose of cleaning up the teeth prior to Crufts and the like.

I have even chipped tartar off teeth during boosters, but I would not imply: "there we go, all fine till next year." If there is gingivitis associated with that tartar, that dog has periodontal disease and it needs addressing. 

The subgingival curettage, which involves scraping below the gumline, is much more important than the scaling above the gumline. Yet it cannot be performed properly in the conscious animal. It is very uncomfortable. It requires care to avoid gum trauma.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm going to reference http://www.colyerinstitute.org/pdf/diet.pdf written by a David Fagan, a Veterinary Dental Consultant.

One thing that stands out to me is:



> I have repeatedly treated severe oral pathology in association with arthritic problems, acute renal failure, pancreatic, and hepatic infections, etc.


Now given the fact that the gums are also associated and frequently mentioned, there is no way I would be content with just a cosmetic check in terms of if the teeth are white as a basis for general mouth health.


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## Westy (Feb 19, 2013)

When I trained as a groomer, (I was already a veterinary nurse) I was taught how to descale and clean dogs teeth on the table. Apart from a few toy breeds who have difficult small mouths, none of my dogs, who did come in every 6-8 weeks, every needed a GA for a routine dental. If I found anything that needed veterinary intervention, then of course I would suggest that the owner took them to their vet because the owner wouldn't have spotted the problem.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

cinnamontoast said:


> Sure, but treatment is possible without anaesthetic on many dogs, even a full scale. Two of mine would be fine, I would think.


My old vet did several of my dogs without anaesthetic...

Do you remember the late Harry Holmes - brilliant equine dentist?


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## Snoopies (Oct 17, 2011)

Shoshannah said:


> I agree. I've seen many conscious scales and polishes done in dogs, generally for the purpose of cleaning up the teeth prior to Crufts and the like.
> 
> I have even chipped tartar off teeth during boosters, but I would not imply: "there we go, all fine till next year." If there is gingivitis associated with that tartar, that dog has periodontal disease and it needs addressing.
> 
> The subgingival curettage, which involves scraping below the gumline, is much more important than the scaling above the gumline. Yet it cannot be performed properly in the conscious animal. It is very uncomfortable. It requires care to avoid gum trauma.


Spoken like a true VET!

You quote: "I guess an anaesthesia-free scale and polish can ***HELP*** to maintain dental health, *but I have a big issue with people selling it as an acceptable substitute for a proper dental assessment, cleaning and treatment under GA, combined with an appropriate home care regime"*.

You write as though a Vet is the only person able to correctly advise. You cannot make a sweeping statement as above - yes there are some, I'm sure, that would try to dupe people, but if carried out by a qualified professional it CAN have massive benefits. Just last week we had an 18 year old JR cross in for a de-scale. On successfully removing large areas of tartar, we uncovered some sub gingival problems. De-scaling stopped and the client was referred to the Vet for further treatment. We made NO CHARGE for the work carried out! I would call that responsible! There is no way the Client was going to put the dog through the trauma of GA. I'm guessing that NO Vet would offer a NO CHARGE policy!!!
In addition, the grateful owner of the dog referred, reported back from the Vet, who commented on what a great job we had done and was impressed that this little dog had allowed us in with the ultrasonic cleaner!!!
You bang on about periodontal disease, but at stage 1, where no gum is separated from the tooth and gingivitis is present, by removing any calculus, this gingivitis will be reversible, thus eliminating further issues.
If owners can be educated at this early stage, there would be many more dogs avoiding unnecessary and potentially life threatening diseases.
The strange thing here, is why this concept is being treated with contempt, by people who should know better and who should be encouraging this educating process for owners.
Perhaps the real issue here is the potential loss of an easy revenue!!


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I think the real issue here is one of lack of regulation, snoopies!

Anyone can set themselves up as a canine " dentist" or whatever you may wish to call it. It is NOT a profession. The very definition of a profession, is one that is regulated.


To attack vets as only being concerned about their income, is shameful!!


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Snoopies said:


> You write as though a Vet is the only person able to correctly advise.


Not at all. There are vets out there offering anaesthesia-free dentals as well.



> I'm guessing that NO Vet would offer a NO CHARGE policy!!!


One would be surprised.



> You bang on about periodontal disease, but at stage 1, where no gum is separated from the tooth and gingivitis is present, by removing any calculus, this gingivitis will be reversible, thus eliminating further issues.
> If owners can be educated at this early stage, there would be many more dogs avoiding unnecessary and potentially life threatening diseases.


Agreed.



> Perhaps the real issue here is the potential loss of an easy revenue!!


Nope, not for me, sorry.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

On the subject of not charging....my vet has carried out many treatments and examinations over the years for my animals and not charged. 
In fact, ANYONE taking injured wildlife is NOT charged! They have am arrangement with a local wildlife rescue centre, and they will transfer the animal there after treatment.

I was also looking after my friends cat, who had just been spayed by another vet. She burst her stitches and developed a would infection. My vet treated her and refused to charge either me or my friend.

So there!


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

We've had a total of three dogs not inc current pup over the years (12 +) and we've never had to go to the lengths of teeth cleaning under anaesthetic. We gave them plenty of chews and bones and they have kept their teeth clean themselves.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I have also never had to resort to someone cleaning my dogs teeth.

They get fed a dry kibble diet ( oh! The shame!)* and have chews often.

Has worked for all the dogs I have owned over the past 30 years.

*sarcasm :thumbsup:


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## Lois Hedley (Jul 13, 2018)

Burrowzig said:


> I have Kite's teeth descaled without anaesthetic; it's been done twice now. I hold Kite and she's fine with it. The person who does it, I meet her at agility shows, midlands and north - but not sure where she lives. She's a dental hygienist who's branched out into dogs. Charged £30 I think last summer (and she helped fit a new water pump on my caravan while she was at it)!
> I'll PM you her contact details.





Burrowzig said:


> I have Kite's teeth descaled without anaesthetic; it's been done twice now. I hold Kite and she's fine with it. The person who does it, I meet her at agility shows, midlands and north - but not sure where she lives. She's a dental hygienist who's branched out into dogs. Charged £30 I think last summer (and she helped fit a new water pump on my caravan while she was at it)!
> I'll PM you her contact details.


Hello, could you PM me the info too please, if you still have it? Thanks


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## Tyomchik (May 11, 2020)

Burrowzig said:


> I have Kite's teeth descaled without anaesthetic; it's been done twice now. I hold Kite and she's fine with it. The person who does it, I meet her at agility shows, midlands and north - but not sure where she lives. She's a dental hygienist who's branched out into dogs. Charged £30 I think last summer (and she helped fit a new water pump on my caravan while she was at it)!
> I'll PM you her contact details.


Hi! Could you please PM me the details of this lady, if it's still available. Thank!


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