# Grand National



## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

Whos watching?

Whos Betting?​
Whos going to win?​
List of runners located:

Here - Runners List ~ 2011 Grand National


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2011)

I will be betting and watching and winning hopefully!!!!


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## DaisytheTT (Jan 20, 2011)

I never watch it. I really don't like horse racing 

But Hubby always bets on the national and gets me to choose a horse, so I know it's an outsider but I'm gonna put my money on Don't push it, as this is one of the very regular phrases I use on my OH!


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## francesandjon (Jun 3, 2009)

Doubt I'll watch it....cos I'll forget and be busy with ither stuff!

Have had bet on in the past, probably won't this year.....but if I was, I would go for - Oscar time (cos my childhood dog was called Oscar), or Quinz....not sure why though!


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

DaisytheTT said:


> I never watch it. I really don't like horse racing
> 
> But Hubby always bets on the national and gets me to choose a horse, so I know it's an outsider but I'm gonna put my money on Don't push it, as this is one of the very regular phrases I use on my OH!


dont push it won last year if i remember rightly!


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2011)

DaisytheTT said:


> I never watch it. I really don't like horse racing
> 
> But Hubby always bets on the national and gets me to choose a horse, so I know it's an outsider but I'm gonna put my money on Don't push it, as this is one of the very regular phrases I use on my OH!


I bet him last year.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh GOD I was like shite have I missed it :scared:

Way behind with the national hunt this year but I've not yet lost a bet on the national 

Got a William Hill just up the road :thumbup:


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

Iv gone for: 

Dont push it, 
Bluesea cracker 
and becauseicouldntsee


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Oh GOD I was like shite have I missed it :scared:
> 
> Way behind with the national hunt this year but I've not yet lost a bet on the national
> 
> Got a William Hill just up the road :thumbup:


Its This saturday  
get your bets on


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

OK, my money is on these:

What a Friend, he's been about but not had much luck and Paul Nicholls never usually has too bad a race anywhere
Big Fella Thanks, heard a few rumblings about him
State Of Play, heard a few rumblings about him too
Calgary Bay, we all know about Henrietta Knight's wonder horse that was Best Mate she never runs her horses hard and wouldn't put him in if she didn't think he had a fair chance 

Comply or Die is a fantastic horse I adore him. 

I'll have a proper read up today/tomorrow and give my final choice(s), its so hard to choose


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

I usually do watch it & have a bet, but this year I haven't been following national hunt racing, so have no idea which horses are good enough to run in the National. I'll be out most of the day anyway & may not be back when it's run.


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

I quite fancy a bet on QUOLIBET 
but, hes fallen 3 times out of his last 8 races....do i trust him enough to stay on his feet?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JJAK said:


> I quite fancy a bet on QUOLIBET
> but, hes fallen 3 times out of his last 8 races....do i trust him enough to stay on his feet?


I bet you a tenner he doesn't make it home with his jockey! :scared:

I remember a few years ago only 6 horses crossed the line complete with riders  Out of 40


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I bet you a tenner he doesn't make it home with his jockey! :scared:
> 
> I remember a few years ago only 6 horses crossed the line complete with riders  Out of 40


Riders should learn to stick on better then


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JJAK said:


> Riders should learn to stick on better then


Haha imagine gluing yourself on if the horse went on its knees and fancied a roll :scared: :lol:


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I won't be watching or betting. I'm against the grand national on cruelty grounds 

FAACE


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

metaldog said:


> I won't be watching or betting. I'm against the grand national on cruelty grounds
> 
> FAACE


I shant get into a heated discussion...as you are entitled to your opinion and everyone should stick to their morals....but due to being a horse owner, i know how easy it is for them to injure themselves, the simplest thing can lead to death...and has lead to death....regardless of where they are/how fast their going etc etc


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## xxsarahpopsxx (Sep 30, 2009)

I work in a well known bookies  and tbh i hate national day as the shop is soo busy for the whole day, is full of parents who reckon we should break the law just for them - since it is only one day of the year  and it is just a completely nuts day.

The national itself i quite like, but usually miss it since we are so busy trying to get the tills sorted and the bets translated. Was watching Aintree today and got a few winners, so will probs put a bet on the national but haven't decided who yet.


Roll on 10pm saturday night then i'm on holiday for a week


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

xxsarahpopsxx said:


> I work in a well known bookies  and tbh i hate national day as the shop is soo busy for the whole day, is full of parents who reckon we should break the law just for them - since it is only one day of the year  and it is just a completely nuts day.
> 
> The national itself i quite like, but usually miss it since we are so busy trying to get the tills sorted and the bets translated. Was watching Aintree today and got a few winners, so will probs put a bet on the national but haven't decided who yet.
> 
> Roll on 10pm saturday night then i'm on holiday for a week


I imagine its mental, especially people putting on last minute bets!


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## xxsarahpopsxx (Sep 30, 2009)

JJAK said:


> I shant get into a heated discussion...as you are entitled to your opinion and everyone should stick to their morals....but due to being a horse owner, i know how easy it is for them to injure themselves, the simplest thing can lead to death...and has lead to death....regardless of where they are/how fast their going etc etc


Exactly - what would they be better doing, spending all day in the paddock. Oh wait, that increases risk of grass sickness (fatal like 80% of the time) or get problems such as laminitis 

I have worked with quite a few racers and they absolutely love racing, just like dogs working etc


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

If an owner/trainer is aware of their horse's capabilities there would be less accidents its not solely down to those who run the races.

I mean horses like Kauto Star, he's so clumsy you'd be a fool to put him in anything like the national with his way of jumping and to be honest I wouldn't run him on too soft ground either but they do anyway.

I don't have an issue with the principle of racing, horses are very well cared for in most cases and love what they do. It is sad when there are accidents but I think its as much the owners/trainers/jockeys as it is the organisers and the like.


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

xxsarahpopsxx said:


> Exactly - what would they be better doing, spending all day in the paddock. Oh wait, that increases risk of grass sickness (fatal like 80% of the time) or get problems such as laminitis
> 
> I have worked with quite a few racers and they absolutely love racing, just like dogs working etc


yupps, laminitus can lead to colic which can lead to an increased risk of getting meningitus which in turn leads to death....iv just written a paper on that LOL


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## xxsarahpopsxx (Sep 30, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> If an owner/trainer is aware of their horse's capabilities there would be less accidents its not solely down to those who run the races.
> 
> I mean horses like Kauto Star, he's so clumsy you'd be a fool to put him in anything like the national with his way of jumping and to be honest I wouldn't run him on too soft ground either but they do anyway.
> 
> I don't have an issue with the principle of racing, horses are very well cared for in most cases and love what they do. It is sad when there are accidents but I think its as much the owners/trainers/jockeys as it is the organisers and the like.


I so agree with you. If owners etc stopped trying to lower their handicaps by entering the horses into races they have no chance of winning, or racing unfit horses etc in races that are too big for them. With all the facilities available there should be no need to enter an unfit horse in any race - even claiming races!!


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm against horse racing period not just the grand national for the following reasons:

Wet nursing..foals taken off 'normal' mares so they can suckle 'foals of champion racers' so the champion racer can get back to racing or have more foals quicker. The foal of the 'normal' mare is denied it's mothers companionship & milk and is often cruelly treated.

A racehorse will cease competing after three or four years, yet can live for up to 30 years. The racing industry only pays for about 200 horses a year to be rehabilitated, once they have finished racing, but over 4,000 horses from the horseracing industry go to slaughter in the UK, every year.

Now imagine if this was your pet? Then would you consider it ok?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

metaldog said:


> I'm against horse racing period not just the grand national for the following reasons:
> 
> Wet nursing..foals taken off 'normal' mares so they can suckle 'foals of champion racers' so the champion racer can get back to racing or have more foals quicker. The foal of the 'normal' mare is denied it's mothers companionship & milk and is often cruelly treated.
> 
> ...


I've never heard that before, so I can't comment very in depth. I do not believe any ethical horse person be it trainer/owner/rider would do such a thing.

If that is true in racing then I am sure it will be true in all disciplines (dressage, cross country, show jumping, eventing), and sure there are people who disagree with people riding in general but I'm guessing your view is the commercialisation and commodity aspect of it?

You do get people who have horses has field ornaments and sadly they get very sick. Just like folk who do everything for our horses and still they get sick. They are fragile animals and really bizarre accidents can occur with them. I believe if done right there is nothing wrong with any of the above I mentioned with horses (inc. racing), but naturally you get some who don't do it right (or what I would consider right).



ETA: I do feel racing is the area most easily abused but more because of the people involved being greedy buggers.


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

metaldog said:


> I'm against horse racing period not just the grand national for the following reasons:
> 
> Wet nursing..foals taken off 'normal' mares so they can suckle 'foals of champion racers' so the champion racer can get back to racing or have more foals quicker. The foal of the 'normal' mare is denied it's mothers companionship & milk and is often cruelly treated.
> 
> ...


The racing industry pays....
This doesnt include the thousands and thousands of people (like myself) who are happy to take on an ex racer and retrain them ourselves, using our own hard earned money and time.

I have lost seveal horses over the years, each time they are picked up by the hunt master and he uses their corpse as he see's fit. i would LOVE to have them cremated, but money is an issue in this...one which i just cannot afford.

Many race horses live long and prosperous racing careers...many much longer than 3/4 years...their racing career can depend on lots of things....age broken in, injury etc etc etc...things which can happen to the best horses in any sphere....not just racing!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JJAK said:


> The racing industry pays....
> This doesnt include the thousands and thousands of people (like myself) who are happy to take on an ex racer and retrain them ourselves, using our own hard earned money and time.
> 
> I have lost seveal horses over the years, each time they are picked up by the hunt master and he uses their corpse as he see's fit. i would LOVE to have them cremated, but money is an issue in this...one which i just cannot afford.
> ...


I only just reread the age thing and am dubious of those statistics for national hunt racing. For the flat then yes, but I actually have no interest or belief that racing on the flat is in any way right, corners are cut too often and horses started too young IMO, I think they need to take a leaf from the National Hunting book..!

I don't do flat racing at all I really do feel horses in that area are pushed too hard and more so than the NH ones. People just make them run in a straight line with no previous training half the time.

I feel National Hunt and The Flat are veryyyyyyy different


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I've never heard that before, so I can't comment very in depth.* I do not believe any ethical horse person be it trainer/owner/rider would do such a thing.
> *
> If that is true in racing then I am sure it will be true in all disciplines (dressage, cross country, show jumping, eventing), and sure there are people who disagree with people riding in general but I'm guessing your view is the commercialisation and commodity aspect of it?
> 
> ...


You can't believe it because you are an ethical person, and we always judge other people on our own standards, but people who own animals for commercial gain are not ethical people. Farming race horses is as bad as puppy farming IMO. I don't think any animal should ever be used as a commodity 

1000s of ex race horses are sent for slaughter every year, it's just the same as it is with greyhounds. Sad but true


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

metaldog said:


> You can't believe it because you are an ethical person, and we always judge other people on our own standards, but people who own animals for commercial gain are not ethical people. Farming race horses is as bad as puppy farming IMO. I don't think any animal should ever be used as a commodity
> 
> 1000s of ex race horses are sent for slaughter every year, it's just the same as it is with greyhounds. Sad but true


Do you know if a fair few of those figures come from flat racing stats?

I don't like the flat industry they run 2 YOs whereas NH's don't run until 4+ and that's usually point to points and not full seasons til 5-6+.

I'm not using it as an excuse at all, there are many faults with the NH system still but I believe they have come further and are way ahead of the flat (not even sure of the proper name for them!). They bully horses into the start gates and half the time run unfit horses because all they have to do is run, no jumping or real bends on varying ground. I think they literally do race a couple years and are then off to the knackers yard, but a fair few NH horses are still going at 12+ and started as 5YO's.

I'm really not up on where statistics come from and do believe that *sometimes* they are not always accurate reflections but I do appreciate that a lot of crap goes on behind the scenes.

Bit random/slightly off topic but its funny how with breeding crossbreeds in dogs people are generally against it if people charge daft prices or some are against it end off as 'we have enough breeds', but I've never met any in the horse industry who think it should be purebred to purebred..? I know of a tonne of horse breeders who I would consider unethical if they did the same with dogs, seems weird it can be so different?

Its nice you can put your view across without being condescending or a bit judgemental, topics like this don't always bring out the best in people (don't mean offence by that, its just nice not to have to feel defensive!).


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Do you know if a fair few of those figures come from flat racing stats?
> 
> I don't like the flat industry they run 2 YOs whereas NH's don't run until 4+ and that's usually point to points and not full seasons til 5-6+.
> 
> ...


Thank you  I don't see any point in being condescending or judgemental. All I want to do is highlight the issue that all is not good in horse racing. I cannot find any statistics that separate flat racing from NH.

I did find this interesting research though

I am glad that there a re kind people who are willing to take on and rehabilitate ex racers. Unless every ex racer is re-homed humanely and rehabilitated then *the people who make money* out of these poor animals have blood on their hands IMHO.

I saw a tv documentary about the foals being taken from mares so the mare can wet nurse race horse foals on TV several years ago. It was very upsetting  Here is an article about it


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

metaldog said:


> Thank you  I don't see any point in being condescending or judgemental. All I want to do is highlight the issue that all is not good in horse racing. I cannot find any statistics that separate flat racing from NH.
> 
> I did find this interesting research though
> 
> ...


Will have a read of those links later, got two dogs looking at me for their dinner at the minute 

I imagine if its something that has happened with racers it will happen with other eventing horses as well. If I'm understanding what goes on re the wet nursing properly then I gather the owner of the mare nursing allows their foal to be kicked off for the 'champion' foal? I think that's lame too, not only have you got the foal's owner/breeder and or the mare of that foal's owner/breeder (foals are sold in vitro when they are meant to be champs etc) all who allow that to happen :nonod:

Horses get a pretty raw deal (not that dogs and cats don't), I feel like people have got a bit more up to speed on how to deal with more domestic animals and are still lacking on the horse front. So many people ride them in inconsiderate ways, some literally get lumped in a field for the entirety of their lives others end up like the Amersham (sp?!) lot.

I honestly believe comparing National Hunt (not flat which I think is a bit worse), and showers/eventers at top levels it will be near on identical if they aren't doing well and the like but in racing its all a gamble with people buying a racehorse to race when they have no idea about it etc. Definitely has a way to go things have improved in recent years and I'm hoping that will continue.

I got into racing and have vaguely followed it since the death of Best Mate. I saw his death on the news when I was 13. He died aged 10 during the Haldon Gold Cup, he was pulled up and his heart stopped, he fell to the ground and didn't get up. The likes of his owners/trainers I really do believe are fantastic and would never do the cr*p that goes on like you mentioned, but then the people who work at those higher levels often aren't really doing it for money, but for love of the sport which is why they do so well I think..?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Can't help but laugh 

Horses win, jockey rides them through enclosure, grooms etc hold water buckets another holding the horse. Then suddenly the owner (usually someone in a posh suit) swans in and grabs the rein close to the horse's face like it needs him to stand there :lol:

I can't help but laugh a bit, some of them seem so desperate to look like they belong..! Earlier on one of them was yanking at the horse wondering why it wouldn't follow, and it was because the groom was trying to lead him the right way which was different to where the owner was going (they had one rein each).

Then as soon as they are out the enclosure and back off to the stables the owners have vanished and left it to the grooms...Daft some of em


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

metaldog said:


> Thank you  I don't see any point in being condescending or judgemental. All I want to do is highlight the issue that all is not good in horse racing. I cannot find any statistics that separate flat racing from NH.
> 
> I did find this interesting research though
> 
> ...


The people who make money...that will be me then!

Our salon in Liverpool has taken over a grand this morning doing ladies blowdries and hair-ups for ladies day.


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

classixuk said:


> The people who make money...that will be me then!
> 
> Our salon in Liverpool has taken over a grand this morning doing ladies blowdries and hair-ups for ladies day.


i could of been one of them ...but iv been dragged, kicking and screaming into work tomorrow :'(


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

JJAK said:


> i could of been one of them ...but iv been dragged, kicking and screaming into work tomorrow :'(


Nevermind...you can come next year when I put my prices up LOL.

Actually, we had a good deal on today...£25 for any blowdry or hair-up plus free fascinator of your choice.

We had to open at 8.30AM to fit everyone in!


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

classixuk said:


> Nevermind...you can come next year when I put my prices up LOL.
> 
> Actually, we had a good deal on today...£25 for any blowdry or hair-up plus free fascinator of your choice.
> 
> We had to open at 8.30AM to fit everyone in!


Thats blooming good, 
Our place had hair up going for £35 this week only!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

metaldog said:


> I won't be watching or betting. I'm against the grand national on cruelty grounds
> 
> FAACE


Yes, just another example of animals used and abused in the name of sport ...


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

There was a time when I'd spend Saturday afternoons watching horse racing and betting **** with my dad  Hardly ever get to watch it these days but I do enjoy watching the Grand National.

If I can get someone to pop to the bookies for me then I'll be having a bet, no point me going cos I'm clueless :blink: Big Fella Thanks and Ballabriggs for me I think but will have to check them all out properly first and probably change my mind once I've seen them getting ready to go in


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

*Fatalities* ~ Horses killed

Due to the high number of injuries and fatalities suffered by participating horses, the Grand National is often a target for animal rights groups, which have campaigned to have it banned. The modern three-day Grand National meeting yields an average of three equine fatalities each year.[52] Deaths reached a recent high in 2009, when five horses died during over the course of the three days;[53] the following year's meeting saw the deaths of four horses.[54]

Grand National - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What a **** SHAME in the truest sense of the word ...


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> *Fatalities* ~ Horses killed
> 
> Due to the high number of injuries and fatalities suffered by participating horses, the Grand National is often a target for animal rights groups, which have campaigned to have it banned. The modern three-day Grand National meeting yields an average of three equine fatalities each year.[52] Deaths reached a recent high in 2009, when five horses died during over the course of the three days;[53] the following year's meeting saw the deaths of four horses.[54]
> 
> ...


i agree that the death toll is bad....but (and im not trying to make it ok!) but death happen in all spheres of equestrianism....your horse can have a heart attack and die whilst stood int he field grazing, they are fragile animals at the best of times!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JJAK said:


> i agree that the death toll is bad....but (and im not trying to make it ok!) but death happen in all spheres of equestrianism....your horse can have a heart attack and die whilst stood int he field grazing, they are fragile animals at the best of times!


Which begs the question why anyone would subject them to such a gruelling and barbaric course ...

I wonder how many will die this year ...


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Which begs the question why anyone would subject them to such a gruelling and barbaric course ...
> 
> I wonder how many will die this year ...


Its not *That* barbaric compared to others...its just the others dont get the hype and followers that the national does.

Anyways, this thread wasnt for getting into an arguement and nit picking...


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JJAK said:


> Its not *That* barbaric compared to others...its just the others dont get the hype and followers that the national does.
> 
> Anyways, this thread wasnt for getting into an arguement and nit picking...


Sorry to "nit pick" but the number of horses killed in the name of racing disturbs and saddens some people. I agree the National is far from the only race where there are fatalities ...

Race Horse Death Watch

Read this and weep ...


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

No i wont be watching it, ive watched past races with my heart in my mouth and ive seen horses fall never to get up, i dont support horse racing for the same reasons i dont support greyhound racing....animals die in the name of sport.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> No i wont be watching it, ive watched past races with my heart in my mouth and ive seen horses fall never to get up, i dont support horse racing for the same reasons i dont support greyhound racing....animals die in the name of sport.


I can't watch it now, not my idea of entertainment :frown2:

Did your read the letter in The Guardian today? Letter: National shame | Sport | The Guardian


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

I do agree about the National being a horrible course. However no horses died last year? Fell, but not fatally.

But what gets me is some people who dislike Horse-racing like Showjumping, Eventing, Cross-Country etc when its all the same! Horses being used for human entertainment and sport!!

If you dislike racing then all the above should come into it too! Horses die in ALL the above, they just don't get 'broadcast' like racers deaths do.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Acacia86 said:


> I do agree about the National being a horrible course. However no horses died last year? Fell, but not fatally.
> 
> But what gets me is some people who dislike Horse-racing like Showjumping, Eventing, Cross-Country etc when its all the same! Horses being used for human entertainment and sport!!
> 
> If you dislike racing then all the above should come into it too! Horses die in ALL the above, they just don't get 'broadcast' like racers deaths do.


I agree, it's all equally disturbing and cruel.


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## bigdaddy (Feb 5, 2011)

got a insder tip

theres a horse running called 

V NECK 

dead cert 

its a great jumper


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Any chance we can do another thread with the nastiness of racing in instead of this one? Don't really want to be reading that if I can avoid it right now whereas I am happy to read about the race in general etc.


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## bexy1989 (May 10, 2009)

xxsarahpopsxx said:


> I work in a well known bookies  and tbh i hate national day as the shop is soo busy for the whole day, is full of parents who reckon we should break the law just for them - since it is only one day of the year  and it is just a completely nuts day.
> 
> The national itself i quite like, but usually miss it since we are so busy trying to get the tills sorted and the bets translated. Was watching Aintree today and got a few winners, so will probs put a bet on the national but haven't decided who yet.
> 
> Roll on 10pm saturday night then i'm on holiday for a week


My mum works in a bookies aswell, worst day of the year for her by a long shot!

Normally her shop is quite quiet, and we can go in and have a natter, no chance on national day, she's lucky if she gets a proper break! when the national is running though she does go outside and have a cigerette as she cant bare to watch it


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## bexy1989 (May 10, 2009)

bigdaddy said:


> got a insder tip
> 
> theres a horse running called
> 
> ...


might have to have a look at this one, i'm also thinking don't push it or big fella thanks


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

bexy1989 said:


> might have to have a look at this one, i'm also thinking don't push it or big fella thanks


Big Fella Thanks for me and Calgary Bay each way


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## bexy1989 (May 10, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Big Fella Thanks for me and Calgary Bay each way


big fella has had some good runs recently hasn't he? and he finished 4th last year. ohh i dont know


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

bexy1989 said:


> big fella has had some good runs recently hasn't he? and he finished 4th last year. ohh i dont know


Well I've not yet lost a bet soooooooo

I think I am right 

Might make a last minute change though, wont bet til 2pm plus it will change a tonne throughout tomorrow.


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## bexy1989 (May 10, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Well I've not yet lost a bet soooooooo
> 
> I think I am right
> 
> Might make a last minute change though, wont bet til 2pm plus it will change a tonne throughout tomorrow.


haha i'll go with what you say then :thumbup1: then i have someone to blame other than myself if it dont come in 

my darling sister is lending me some money for it aha


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

bexy1989 said:


> haha i'll go with what you say then :thumbup1: then i have someone to blame other than myself if it dont come in
> 
> my darling sister is lending me some money for it aha


How much you putting on?


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

everyones saying the midnight club will win it, 
Walking through town today its all everyone was talking about!


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## bexy1989 (May 10, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> How much you putting on?


hmm im not sure only a quid each way i think, never normally do much  only time i had a big bet was when we had a tip on Big Timer and it got me £265 or something like that


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JJAK said:


> everyones saying the midnight club will win it,
> Walking through town today its all everyone was talking about!


He's got way more of a shot than Don't Push It IMO. I don't like betting on AP McCoy or Ruby Walsh's rides though 

I'd put money on Ruby wining over AP though!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

bexy1989 said:


> hmm im not sure only a quid each way i think, never normally do much  only time i had a big bet was when we had a tip on Big Timer and it got me £265 or something like that


Oooh nice! I will see how I feel at the time I think...


----------



## bexy1989 (May 10, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Oooh nice! I will see how I feel at the time I think...


I'll close my eyes and pick the one where my finger lands :lol:

that or leave my boyfriend to choose..in which case we have no hope :lol:


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> I can't watch it now, not my idea of entertainment :frown2:
> 
> Did your read the letter in The Guardian today? Letter: National shame | Sport | The Guardian


no i hadnt seen that, but yeah i hope people take note of it.


----------



## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

midnight club is the one i chose to avoid this year and now its in the top 3 to win it GAH, you watch, itll win now, i have a habit of always avoiding the one that wins it. 

Last year OH said "put a fiver on that 'dont push it' itll win hands down" i argued with him and said no...and it went and bloody won!


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Just stuck £20 on Paddy Power online and its not showing up with a £20 free bet like it said it would. Surprise surprise


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

Looking forward to it! I'd never bet on the national as you can study form until the cows come home, but it's anyone's game. You'd be just as well to put £1 on the nose of all of them! If and outsider comes in at 100-1, you will have spent £35 ish on bets and get to keep £65ish return!


----------



## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

I am going with......

Don't Push It

Big Fella Thanks.

Sliver By Nature.

Comply Or Die.

I do love the look of a nice silver grey horse though.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

OK have put my bets on because Paddy Power online sucks!! Not even gone for who I wanted too I thought I could use the Free Bet on more than one horse so I bodged it up 

I went:

£10 each way Midnight Club
£10 each way Don't Push It
£10 each way Calgary Bay

Might stick a tenna on in the morning on loads of different ones at £2 seeing as it wouldn't let me tonight 



xxwelshcrazyxx said:


> I am going with......
> 
> Don't Push It
> 
> ...


So do I but I think only two have ever won the national so far. BFT I like and Comply or Die he got it in 2008 but he's 12 now


----------



## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

We are going to pick 3 outsiders just in case lolol


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I just put £2 each way on What A Friend and Big Fella Thanks, then £1 each way on Ballabriggs as he is trained my a McCain and we all know Red Rum was too 

Grrr Paddy Power wont use you again though..!


----------



## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

at least that 'kings castle' or whoever isnt in it this year...didnt even cross the start line last year!


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

JJAK said:


> Its not *That* barbaric compared to others...its just the others dont get the hype and followers that the national does.
> 
> Anyways, this thread wasnt for getting into an arguement and nit picking...


Raising the issues of animal cruelty in horse racing is not nit picking or arguing IMHO. The only reason I commented was to raise awareness of the issues and perhaps to get people to think and question what they do.

Quite obviously you are pro racing and I respect that. Please respect the people who don't agree with you


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Anybody certain who they're going to bet on yet?


----------



## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

metaldog said:


> Raising the issues of animal cruelty in horse racing is not nit picking or arguing IMHO. The only reason I commented was to raise awareness of the issues and perhaps to get people to think and question what they do.
> 
> Quite obviously you are pro racing and I respect that. Please respect the people who don't agree with you


I do respect that, 
Infact, iv got the upmost respect for people with strong morals and beliefs...
I only said that as everytime anything is mentioned to do with racing/XC/SJ etc it all becomes about the sport and an arguement starts....when that wasnt what i intended this thread for.

No one looks as it as 'maybe the horse enjoys the jumping' frustrates me as 'its wrong to ride a horse over a jump' but fine for a dog to do agility and jump a jump. Some horses get the same 'buzz' and feeling doing their job as a dog does doing its.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JJAK said:


> I do respect that,
> Infact, iv got the upmost respect for people with strong morals and beliefs...
> I only said that as everytime anything is mentioned to do with racing/XC/SJ etc it all becomes about the sport and an arguement starts....when that wasnt what i intended this thread for.
> 
> No one looks as it as 'maybe the horse enjoys the jumping' frustrates me as 'its wrong to ride a horse over a jump' but fine for a dog to do agility and jump a jump. Some horses get the same 'buzz' and feeling doing their job as a dog does doing its.


I'm thinking of starting a different thread for issues with the Grand National its really not something I want to be reading about how it kills this many and I do because I bet etc right now.

That way there is no reason for people to post in this thread anyway. People were getting a rollocking for talking about people giving up smoking on the smoking price increase thread so I think its only right the same applies here, its a thread to talk about winners/betters etc, right? 

Thats no disrespect to anyone but I wont be reading this thread if there are more posts about the cruelty aspect because I don't need it today.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Jan has done another thread which is more applicable:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/158185-should-we-backing-grand-national.html#post2362313


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Thats no disrespect to anyone but I wont be reading this thread if there are more posts about the cruelty aspect because I don't need it today.


Why because today is the day of the race? Personally can't think of a better time to talk about the cruelty involved


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Why because today is the day of the race? Personally can't think of a better time to talk about the cruelty involved


In the relevent thread. This one is about favourites and betting.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Why because today is the day of the race? Personally can't think of a better time to talk about the cruelty involved


No, because its three years today since my horse died in a very nasty way and I would rather have the option of dipping into that kind of thread or not when I fancy. Not coming across x, y and z about cruelty and death on a thread which I think is about the general race itself.

Half the reason I've put a bet on is to distract myself. Going to hear and find out all about who falls and doesn't regardless of whether I watch it or not and bet on it or not. Its not like I can totally ignore the national it will be everywhere, but I'd like to keep my eyes away from the cruelty aspect if I'm feeling particularly crappy at that moment in time if you catch my drift 

Plus there is now another thread so we can all post in more relevant places


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sending positive thoughts for a safe race for all the horses involved ....


----------



## Stephen&Dogs (Dec 11, 2010)

Grand what now?


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JJAK said:


> I do respect that,
> Infact, iv got the upmost respect for people with strong morals and beliefs...
> I only said that as everytime anything is mentioned to do with racing/XC/SJ etc it all becomes about the sport and an arguement starts....when that wasnt what i intended this thread for.
> 
> No one looks as it as 'maybe the horse enjoys the jumping' frustrates me as 'its wrong to ride a horse over a jump' but fine for a dog to do agility and jump a jump. Some horses get the same 'buzz' and feeling doing their job as a dog does doing its.


*Thats why i started my own thread on the subject.*
http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/158185-should-we-backing-grand-national.html


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> No, because its three years today since my horse died in a very nasty way and I would rather have the option of dipping into that kind of thread or not when I fancy. Not coming across x, y and z about cruelty and death on a thread which I think is about the general race itself.
> 
> Half the reason I've put a bet on is to distract myself. Going to hear and find out all about who falls and doesn't regardless of whether I watch it or not and bet on it or not. Its not like I can totally ignore the national it will be everywhere, but I'd like to keep my eyes away from the cruelty aspect if I'm feeling particularly crappy at that moment in time if you catch my drift
> 
> ...


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Sorry to hear about your horse dying in a "very nasty way" but it makes me wonder why you are betting on and watching a race where it is not unusual to see horses fall, injured and killed
> 
> I should have thought today of ALL days, this is a televised event you would avoid ... Sorry can't follow that reasoning, but never mind, will leave you to your thread, just didn't want to ignore your response :001_unsure:


I don't watch the horses die and I don't see them fall either. Regardless of whether I watch the race or not I will know of who is injured/falls/dies because I know loads of people who are really into racing and it will most likely be on the news, people's Facebooks and no doubt on here too.

I put bets on lots of things just because I do, its not like I support this and will bet on this I don't support this I wont bet on it etc. I just bet on whatever and view it as a light hearted gambling thing.

I do not think its possible to avoid something like the Grand National and so have decided I would prefer to stick the telly on and watch the horses in the parade ring instead of shut the computer down, turn the tellys/radios off and not walk to the shops or anything later. Literally I'd have to shut myself in my bedroom all day and night to avoid hearing anything about it and that's much more likely to focus my mind on events I'd rather it didn't focus on.

Its a welcome distraction, to be honest but that does not mean to say I want horses to die or to get injured, I do not but I do not view putting a few quid on a horse as condoning injuries etc the way you do. We just see things differently that's all.


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Well hubs came back from the bookies this morning full of moans. All these people that don't walk into a betting shop from one year to the next, interupting him and his cronies.  He tends to hide up a corner. I've told him he should be nice but he wont have it. "Of course they know how to put a bet on, they came in last year didnt they". :


----------



## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Sweepstake in work but its calgary bay and santas son, but whoever wins pray they all get home safe x


----------



## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Oh god . Just seen VERY upsetting thing . Dead horse by a jump  

Can't understand why people enjoy watching it. SO many people & Horses fell


----------



## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Think was two, they by passed another, this was a bad one x


----------



## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

willa said:


> Oh god . Just seen VERY upsetting thing . Dead horse by a jump
> 
> Can't understand why people enjoy watching it. SO many people & Horses fell


I saw that too.


----------



## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Patterdale_lover said:


> I saw that too.


That wasn't the only horse to die ... Another 1 also ..


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Yeah there was two. One surrounded and one under a tarpaulin.


----------



## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Why because today is the day of the race? Personally can't think of a better time to talk about the cruelty involved


Yes, but this is not the thread for it. You should keep the comments on the relevant thread.


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

any news on the two nasty fallers?

Congrats to the winner


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tapir said:


> any news on the two nasty fallers?
> 
> Congrats to the winner


I'm pretty sure they died hun. One had a tent around him another was under tarpaulin


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

Yeah I saw the dead one, and saw the one in a tent, wasn't sure if it was a jockey getting treatment or a horse. Who was it?


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tapir said:


> Yeah I saw the dead one, and saw the one in a tent, wasn't sure if it was a jockey getting treatment or a horse. Who was it?


They wouldn't leave a jockey or an injured horse with a chance of recovery on the course I don't think hun, not incase a loose horse jumped the other jump instead etc and caused more problems. I'm quite confident if it was a jockey they'd have got him/her off the course pretty quick.

They're doing replay after replay so telly isn't saying much and internet sites are all crashing


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> They wouldn't leave a jockey or an injured horse with a chance of recovery on the course I don't think hun, not incase a loose horse jumped the other jump instead etc and caused more problems. I'm quite confident if it was a jockey they'd have got him/her off the course pretty quick.
> 
> They're doing replay after replay so telly isn't saying much and internet sites are all crashing


I know....it makes it worse as it's like they are hiding it, even more fuel for antis. They need to be more open about the one's they lose.

I can't get onto any websites either.


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Theres a minor possibility that the horse tented, is just suffering from exhaustion. Although I think I'm clutching as straws.


----------



## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Two have died as far as I understand it, awful.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

bird said:


> Theres a minor possibility that the horse tented, is just suffering from exhaustion. Although I think I'm clutching as straws.


Yeah, thing is I think to put them to sleep they do it surrounded by a tent so no one sees? That's what I am fearing 

I think one of them was Ornais...he fell with Calgary Bay but I'm 99% sure Calgary bay was the one out of the two who got up...He landed face first and rolled so all the impact was on his neck. I've seen a fall like that and seen a horse get up but was surprised he did.


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

bird said:


> Theres a minor possibility that the horse tented, is just suffering from exhaustion. Although I think I'm clutching as straws.


I was thinking that. There was a bit of hope in the fact he was tented and not covered.

I was at Uttox once and the fave was front runner all the way and fell at second to last. He didn't move and everyone assumed he was dead. The screens went up, but about 15-20 mins later they all came down and revealed him grazing! Think he's knocked himself out or winded himself.

Anyone know what happened to Hello Bud?


----------



## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

The BBC presenters are calling the dead horses " fence obstacles" :

They won't ever say on tv that horses died ..
Hope their jockeys are ok


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

People not betting wouldn't stop the Grand National! All stopping the National would do is send the sport underground, which would mean even worse conditions for the horses, and more cruelty as there would be no regulations...

We don't like dog fighting or cock fighting, but we know it still happens


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

willa said:


> The BBC presenters are calling the dead horses " fence obstacles" :
> 
> They won't ever say on tv that horses died ..
> Hope their jockeys are ok


I have heard them say it before about races bet its because its the national 

I think one was Ornais his fall was bad.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Ornais and Dooney's Gate its just been announced live.


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Yeah, thing is I think to put them to sleep they do it surrounded by a tent so no one sees? That's what I am fearing
> 
> I think one of them was Ornais...he fell with Calgary Bay but I'm 99% sure Calgary bay was the one out of the two who got up...He landed face first and rolled so all the impact was on his neck. I've seen a fall like that and seen a horse get up but was surprised he did.


It was Ornais and Dooney's Gate and Hello Bud pulled up at last fence


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tapir said:


> It was Ornais and Dooney's Gate and Hello Bud pulled up at last fence


Yeah I think 5 or 6 got pulled up so was Santa's Son, Comply or Die, What a Friend etc.


----------



## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Really hope their Jockeys are ok


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

willa said:


> Really hope their Jockeys are ok


I'm sure they're OK they would have mentioned injured jockeys long before horses and Clair Balding said about the horses.


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Yeah, thing is I think to put them to sleep they do it surrounded by a tent so no one sees? That's what I am fearing
> 
> I think one of them was Ornais...he fell with Calgary Bay but I'm 99% sure Calgary bay was the one out of the two who got up...He landed face first and rolled so all the impact was on his neck. I've seen a fall like that and seen a horse get up but was surprised he did.


Oh I know,  and it wouldnt be the first time I've watched a horse take that kind of fall like Calgary and I've been close to tears and all "oh poor horse he's def gone" only to watch it get up and trot off. 



Tapir said:


> I was thinking that. There was a bit of hope in the fact he was tented and not covered.
> 
> I was at Uttox once and the fave was front runner all the way and fell at second to last. He didn't move and everyone assumed he was dead. The screens went up, but about 15-20 mins later they all came down and revealed him grazing! Think he's knocked himself out or winded himself.
> 
> Anyone know what happened to Hello Bud?


Erm.............we was possibly at uttox at the same day.


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

willa said:


> The BBC presenters are calling the dead horses " fence obstacles" :
> 
> They won't ever say on tv that horses died ..
> Hope their jockeys are ok


I am very annoyed that they have skirted round the issue until now. They shouldn't hide it. It makes the hatrid towards the GN even worse.

There is no doubt that Racehorses are treated like Kings. When my sister went to British Racing School, we had tours around some racing stables, and she used to work as a lass at one yard, and they were just waited on hand and...hoof!
The bad points IMO are starting flat racers too early and putting horses in races just for sake of it i.e. running a horse in the national not because he is ready but so the owners can tell their mates 

People in the industry are wonderful, the horses are their lives, passion and love. The grooms, jockeys and trainers are great carers, it's more often than not the owners who are at fault. Haven't got a clue what they are doing, stikcing their horses into races they can't cope with to show off, more money than sense.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Well done to the McCain family and Ballabriggs though.



Tapir said:


> I am very annoyed that they have skirted round the issue until now. They shouldn't hide it. It makes the hatrid towards the GN even worse.
> 
> There is no doubt that Racehorses are treated like Kings. When my sister went to British Racing School, we had tours around some racing stables, and she used to work as a lass at one yard, and they were just waited on hand and...hoof!
> The bad points IMO are starting flat racers too early and putting horses in races just for sake of it i.e. running a horse in the national not because he is ready but so the owners can tell their mates
> ...


Ahhh I nearly went to the BRS!! Needed to weigh under 9st 7lbs though and I weighed 10 stone (I'm 5'9) and liked my food too much to want to diet 

Totally agree with what you say.


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

bird said:


> Oh I know,  and it wouldnt be the first time I've watched a horse take that kind of fall like Calgary and I've been close to tears and all "oh poor horse he's def gone" only to watch it get up and trot off.
> 
> Erm.............we was possibly at uttox at the same day.


Haha! He was a dark bay, can't remember his name, it was about 2/3 years back I think! I'll never forget it cause my grandma said to put a fiver on for her, so I picked her a horse, saying, seriously this is the one! i was thinking, oh my god, I have to go back and tell her that this dead cert was just that!  I was nearly in tears when he got up and everyone cheered!


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Well done to the McCain family and Ballabriggs though.
> 
> Ahhh I nearly went to the BRS!! Needed to weigh under 9st 7lbs though and I weighed 10 stone (I'm 5'9) and liked my food too much to want to diet
> 
> Totally agree with what you say.


LMAO! I would have a million percent have followed her footsteps there if I wasn't such a pig. I love racing but I love battenburg that little bit more...


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

bird said:


> Oh I know,  and it wouldnt be the first time I've watched a horse take that kind of fall like Calgary and I've been close to tears and all "oh poor horse he's def gone" only to watch it get up and trot off.
> 
> Erm.............we was possibly at uttox at the same day.


Yeah I had a bet on Calgary he got up (you could see him running with the rest, green chest strap Henrietta Knight's bit of kit and she is his trainer). It was Ornais that didn't get up from that one 

Lovely for the McCain's though. For people who don't know Ballabriggs who won was trained by Donald McCain, son of Ginger McCain who trained Red Rum who won three times and Amberleigh House who won once


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Tapir said:


> :
> 
> People in the industry are wonderful, the horses are their lives, passion and love. The grooms, jockeys and trainers are great carers, *it's more often than not the owners who are at fault. Haven't got a clue what they are doing, stikcing their horses into races they can't cope with to show off, more money than sense*.


You often find these days that this type of owner usually has to move his horses about with the trainers. As trainers are becoming more unwilling to just bend over backwards to appease the owners if the horses welfare is at stake. A heck of a lot of trainers will not stand for this type of oaffish behaviour from owners, especially the younger ones that are coming through.


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Lovely for the McCain's though. For people who don't know Ballabriggs who won was trained by Donald McCain, son of Ginger McCain who trained Red Rum who won three times and Amberleigh House who won once


Yep  Betting wise a good day for me. 1st, 3rd and if our bookies pay out 5th as well.


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

bird said:


> You often find these days that this type of owner usually has to move his horses about with the trainers. As trainers are becoming more unwilling to just bend over backwards to appease the owners if the horses welfare is at stake. A heck of a lot of trainers will not stand for this type of oaffish behaviour from owners, especially the younger ones that are coming through.


I'm glad about that. Obviously there are some trainers that are just in it for the money, but not normally at National level.
I'd imagine because you could see some dead one's this year, there will be a bit of public pressure on Aintree or Racing Board to maybe change fences/course again.

Looking at Dooney's Gate and Ornais on RP, they haven't had that many starts.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

bird said:


> Yep  Betting wise a good day for me. 1st, 3rd and if our bookies pay out 5th as well.


I got 1st and 3rd too! £20 (free bet on paddy power) on Calgary Bay mind.

Paddy Power pay out to 5th not sure anyone else does 

How much you got then hey?! I just had a quid each way on Ballabriggs lol!! And £10 (£5 each way) on Don't Push It.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tapir said:


> I'm glad about that. Obviously there are some trainers that are just in it for the money, but not normally at National level.
> I'd imagine because you could see some dead one's this year, there will be a bit of public pressure on Aintree or Racing Board to maybe change fences/course again.
> 
> Looking at Dooney's Gate and Ornais on RP, they haven't had that many starts.


Says a lot about experience, poor buggers. How old were they?


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Says a lot about experience, poor buggers. How old were they?


Dooney's Gate 10yrs
16 starts, 5 wins, 2 second and 1 third.
Dooneys Gate (IRE) | Racing Post

Ornais 9yrs
14 starts, 4 wins, 4 seconds
Ornais (FR) | Racing Post

Winner:
Ballabriggs 10yrs
21 starts, 6 wins, 7 seconds, 1 third
Ballabriggs (IRE) | Racing Post


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I got 1st and 3rd too! £20 (free bet on paddy power) on Calgary Bay mind.
> 
> Paddy Power pay out to 5th not sure anyone else does
> 
> How much you got then hey?! I just had a quid each way on Ballabriggs lol!! And £10 (£5 each way) on Don't Push It.


Only ever have a quid each way on the national. But got enough to pay for a curry tonight with a bit of change for a beer.  



GoldenShadow said:


> Says a lot about experience, poor buggers. How old were they?


Dooneys Gate was 10, trained by willie mullins, true family affair, owned by the missus and ridden by the son. Ornais also 10 and was trained by Nichols and looking at what the papers have said about him, I would have said he shouldnt have been run.


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

Tapir said:


> Dooney's Gate 10yrs
> 16 starts, 5 wins, 2 second and 1 third.
> Dooneys Gate (IRE) | Racing Post
> 
> ...





bird said:


> Dooneys Gate was 10, trained by willie mullins, true family affair, owned by the missus and ridden by the son. Ornais also 10 and was trained by Nichols and looking at what the papers have said about him, I would have said he shouldnt have been run.


I agree, surprised that Nichols ran him tbh, sounds like pushy owner syndrome...Would've thought Paul Nichols would have morse sense.
I wouldn't run a horse in the National unless I was sure he had a good chance of winning, not just for the experiance.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

bird said:


> Only ever have a quid each way on the national. But got enough to pay for a curry tonight with a bit of change for a beer.
> 
> Dooneys Gate was 10, trained by willie mullins, true family affair, owned by the missus and ridden by the son. Ornais also 10 and was trained by Nichols and looking at what the papers have said about him, I would have said he shouldnt have been run.


Gosh really, what had been said about him? Disappointed in Nichols if that's the case...

Well done on your bet! £1 goes a long way on the national to be fair, do you go each way or to win..?

Dooney's Gate looks like he was just unlucky he was a good steeplechaser, Ornais looks like he was better at hurdles (and his fall was from a bad jump).

Apparently somewhere/one is saying one had a heart attack but I'm not convinced with that. Apparently Animal Aid usually have the news of this sort of thing first.

It is sad, I bet the Mullins family are gutted :nonod:


----------



## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Talking about horse accidents. The Air Ambulance has just landed other side of our garden !! A child has come of their Horse !

Random i know  It was REALLY low circling our House & Molly was going mad barking at it


----------



## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Gosh really, what had been said about him? Disappointed in Nichols if that's the case...


"The outsider of champion trainer Paul Nicholls' quartet and easy to see why. Decent novice form in 2007/8 but injury kept him off the track until February when beaten in two hunter chases. Needs a jet-booster."

"Ornais was highly regarded in the 07/08 season winning two novice chases and going off favourite for the four mile National Hunt Chase at the Cheltenham Festival. He ran respectably in that race to finish fifth to Old Benny and then came out the following season and won one of his two races. In the second he was dismounted and his injury proved to be serious as he was off the course for over two years. Connections have subsequently lowered their sights for this horse and he has run in two hunter chases on his return to the track - where he has finished fifth and second. Its difficult not to believe that this horse has lost a lot of his old ability and he would be rated seventeen pounds lower than today's mark if the handicapper had a chance to reassess him. Trained by the Champion Trainer but not much else to recommend this horse."

Why run a horse in the GN with a previous serious injury!? 

I wonder if he had re-injured and they made the desicion to have him PTS.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tapir said:


> "The outsider of champion trainer Paul Nicholls' quartet and easy to see why. Decent novice form in 2007/8 but injury kept him off the track until February when beaten in two hunter chases. Needs a jet-booster."
> 
> "Ornais was highly regarded in the 07/08 season winning two novice chases and going off favourite for the four mile National Hunt Chase at the Cheltenham Festival. He ran respectably in that race to finish fifth to Old Benny and then came out the following season and won one of his two races. In the second he was dismounted and his injury proved to be serious as he was off the course for over two years. Connections have subsequently lowered their sights for this horse and he has run in two hunter chases on his return to the track - where he has finished fifth and second. Its difficult not to believe that this horse has lost a lot of his old ability and he would be rated seventeen pounds lower than today's mark if the handicapper had a chance to reassess him. Trained by the Champion Trainer but not much else to recommend this horse."
> 
> ...


Fancy reposting that in the other national thread Jan started? That's the kind of thing I think is disgraceful and I am sure they will be interested to read it. As its your post I don't want to pinch it but would be grateful if you would pop it in there x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

willa said:


> Talking about horse accidents. The Air Ambulance has just landed other side of our garden !! A child has come of their Horse !
> 
> Random i know  It was REALLY low circling our House & Molly was going mad barking at it


Oh bless I hope its just a bump to the head 

Aww bless Molly! Ours are used to it here we live near a hospital they've seen it all a few too many times now. Someone was in an ambi copter at the play park at half term


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Tapir said:


> "
> 
> Why run a horse in the GN with a previous serious injury!?


Make or break.. Quite often they do it.. I can only imagine they do it to have a last ditch attempt at getting some money from the horse..


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Fancy reposting that in the other national thread Jan started? That's the kind of thing I think is disgraceful and I am sure they will be interested to read it. As its your post I don't want to pinch it but would be grateful if you would pop it in there x


You can post it, it's fine 

I'm not even going to venture into those threads... :blink:


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Make or break.. Quite often they do it.. I can only imagine they do it to have a last ditch attempt at getting some money from the horse..


I'd slowly retire him, let him run a few more hurdles or something, but not the bloody national.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Tapir said:


> I'd slowly retire him, let him run a few more hurdles or something, but not the bloody national.


Didn't they do it with Dessert Orchid a few years ago?


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Didn't they do it with Dessert Orchid a few years ago?


Not 100%, I don't think so. He took a while out but I don't think that was for injury? Not sure.

The differance I suppose is that Dessie won, 34 or 35 of his 70 something races, so he was worth trying again. I'm not saying don't run horses again after injury if they recover...just not in the GN lol!

ETA: Just re-read you post. Do you mean did they race Dessie again a few years ago? I don't think so, he has been dead for a few years. I think he made an appearance at Cheltnham for the first time since he retired, and he was all excited bless him! May that was it. I'm not sure hun


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I grew up thinking the grand national was the race you chucked horses in who were nearing the end of their career or were not much cop, either way it wasn't bad if they did crap.

I think any leg injury you have to be damn careful. Best Mate had the end of a season off then came back and died, his was a burst blood vessel in his nose though that was the reason for his season off and he died of a heart attack, meant to be totally unrelated.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Tapir said:


> Not 100%, I don't think so. He took a while out but I don't think that was for injury? Not sure.
> 
> The differance I suppose is that Dessie won, 34 or 35 of his 70 something races, so he was worth trying again. I'm not saying don't run horses again after injury if they recover...just not in the GN lol!
> 
> ETA: Just re-read you post. Do you mean did they race Dessie again a few years ago? I don't think so, he has been dead for a few years. I think he made an appearance at Cheltnham for the first time since he retired, and he was all excited bless him! May that was it. I'm not sure hun


No they popped him in the national to see how he would fair and stated it would be his last race. last bit of money they could earn on him.. which told me they had very little value for his actual life if he couldn't make money..


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> No they popped him in the national to see how he would fair and stated it would be his last race. last bit of money they could earn on him.. which told me they had very little value for his actual life if he couldn't make money..


I'll (or I'm sure Tapir!) will check on Racing Post for you. I have the exact same impression as you do about the national..!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

OK Desert Orchid ran at Aintree in 89 and fell, he was foaled in 1979 and I think only raced from Oct 88 to Dec 91...That reckons out of 23 starts he won 13, is that the right Dessie


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> No they popped him in the national to see how he would fair and stated it would be his last race. last bit of money they could earn on him.. which told me they had very little value for his actual life if he couldn't make money..


"His part-owner Richard Burridge has stated that it was for this reason [he was better on right handed tracks) that Desert Orchid would have struggled in the Grand National: connections felt he could do himself serious injury at the ninety-degree Canal Turn especially on the second circuit (ref. Richard Burridge: The Grey Horse: The True Story of Desert Orchid)."


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Nope it was the Irish Grand National.. 

But if you read up on his life looks like he had an amazing one.. .. But who knows..


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Nope it was the Irish Grand National..
> 
> But if you read up on his life looks like he had an amazing one.. .. But who knows..


I think it was only because he was a grey that people were so interested..?

For me Best Mate is the wonder horse! 22 starts, won 14, second in 7 and pulled up and had a heart attack in the last. That is some skill right there 

He was only 10 but he was amazing, I've got his DVD and am just :001_wub:

And I love Henrietta Knight and all her horses too...She did really well by Best Mate obviously knew what to do with him 

ETA: Best Mate never ever fell at a fence either.


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

the RP page is wrong?!

DESERT ORCHID


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tapir said:


> the RP page is wrong?!
> 
> DESERT ORCHID


I thought it didn't have many races..!! My eyes hurt trying to read all that though will have to do it later 

 omg 34 out of 70 starts and they have 25 starts listed?!


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## 3 red dogs (May 17, 2008)

Glad to hear your all having a great time betting on this Slaughter of innocent Animals, I guess at least your money will pay for the 3 bullets that will be used at the end of this years race to shot the injured horses, but hey, i guess this is all in the name of entertainment!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

3 red dogs said:


> Glad to hear your all having a great time betting on this Slaughter of innocent Animals, I guess at least your money will pay for the 3 bullets that will be used at the end of this years race to shot the injured horses, but hey, i guess this is all in the name of entertainment!


Your in the wrong thread 

ETA: I've got my money anyway thanks, I didn't lose any and even if I did it goes to the betting shop not anything to do with the races 

I mean why lie to try and make us feel guilty? 

No wonder people have a low opinion of some animal lovers if they twist the truth like you do.


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

Rights, 
Finally home from work. 

Iv not watched the race yet or heard what happened to what not, so i will be back once iv read up on shizz!


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## 3 red dogs (May 17, 2008)

And how, prey tell have i twisted the truth here, 2 horses already dead this year, and one with the death sentence hanging over his head... not to mention the 5 horses in 2009 .. surely the death toll speaks for itself, i don't need to twist anything to get the facts here!!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sacremist said:


> Yes, but this is not the thread for it. You should keep the comments on the relevant thread.


Why??? Keep this one all nice and positive, ignore the death of horses in the name of fun and "sport"


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

3 red dogs said:


> And how, prey tell have i twisted the truth here, 2 horses already dead this year, and one with the death sentence hanging over his head... not to mention the 5 horses in 2009 .. surely the death toll speaks for itself, i don't need to twist anything to get the facts here!!


Your entitled to your opinion...but please take it to the relavent thread!

And no, not to keep this one "nice and positive" but to stop an arguement. all the comes out of the arguement is that we all agree to disagree....thats all that ever happens with 'touchy' subjects.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Why??? Keep this one all nice and positive, ignore the death of horses in the name of fun and "sport"


I think you'll find many people in this thread have been in the other thread too..!

Did we not have all this hoo haa with the smoking thread? Loads of posts got deleted and instead of that I think it better to have separate ones where there is no excuse for people getting defensive if its in the appropriate place.

People are in this one to get a reaction, which sadly wont be obtained from me because I don't care for many people's opinions when it comes to this topic.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Is what I will say is those horses will have been put to sleep and out of pain quicker than most horses I know and have stood with whilst in a mess have been...

Those horses won't be left screaming in pain for an hour while you wait for the vet with no pain relief..


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

3 red dogs said:


> And how, prey tell have i twisted the truth here, 2 horses already dead this year, and one with the death sentence hanging over his head... not to mention the 5 horses in 2009 .. surely the death toll speaks for itself, i don't need to twist anything to get the facts here!!


Haha look, you said:

Your money will pay for the bullets into the horses

No love, my money goes to the bookies if I lose, but I didn't lose anyway so they are seeing no money from me, not even if I did lose. That is twisting the truth don't you think 

You did not state the facts until this post, you were trying to use emotional blackmail which thankfully, I am confident people on this thread are not daft enough to fall for. Now your current post with statistics, is different, but your first one wasn't true.


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## 3 red dogs (May 17, 2008)

Emontional blackmail was something that was not on my mind at the time of posting, I think the ironicness ( if there is such are word was far closer to the mark) A Nation of pet lovers we are known as.. but horses die EVERY year in this race!! it is so hushed up its untrue! Heres the thing. If you would like a pet of YOURS to do this race then fine, personally if i had my own horse id rather shoot it first than put it through that un natural spectacle of vicious money spinning barbary. How can we be so incredibly two faced, circus BAD, zoos BAD hunting BAD shooting BAD, send 30 horses over jumps nearly twice their own body height and as wide as a dead horse lying on the ground... oh with a nasty ditch drop off on the blind side just in case the poor horse thought it might be getting a fair landing.. oh THATS OK wanna put a bet on?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

3 red dogs said:


> Glad to hear your all having a great time betting on this Slaughter of innocent Animals, I guess at least your money will pay for the 3 bullets that will be used at the end of this years race to shot the injured horses, but hey, i guess this is all in the name of entertainment!


Well said, I couldn't watch but thought about these poor abused animals during race .... sickening.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Is what I will say is those horses will have been put to sleep and out of pain quicker than most horses I know and have stood with whilst in a mess have been...
> 
> Those horses won't be left screaming in pain for an hour while you wait for the vet with no pain relief..


Wow that makes me feel so much better now ... not 

Rather like saying Greyhounds are destroyed so much quicker at track by vet, than pet dogs fatally injured in accidents


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Wow that makes me feel so much better now ... not
> 
> Rather like saying Greyhounds are destroyed so much quicker at track by vet, than pet dogs fatally injured in accidents


Well Im afraid thats how it is..

I understand thought are there that the horse shouldn't have to go through this in the first place to experience it.. But I also have thoughts about horses in every day life.. Like a friends who's horse broke its leg in the mud.. vet was called but the horse tried to get up and gallop off and broke its other legs.. Took like what seemed for ever for the vet to get their and relieve this horse of the real pain he was in.. 

I know nothing about racing greyhounds..


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Wow that makes me feel so much better now ... not
> 
> Rather like saying Greyhounds are destroyed so much quicker at track by vet, than pet dogs fatally injured in accidents


CAN WE PLEASE KEEP THIS TO THE RELAVENT THREAD. 
Christ sakes. I wasnt looking for arguements when i started this, it was a 'general' thread about wether people were going to bet or not, not for a full blown "Your scum because you like racing" and "your sick and twisted blah blah" debate.

You say we need to respect your opinions, you need to respect ours too. now if youll please go to the "should we be backing racing thread" itd be greatfully appreciated.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Well Im afraid thats how it is..
> 
> I understand thought are there that the horse shouldn't have to go through this in the first place to experience it.. But I also have thoughts about horses in every day life.. Like a friends who's horse broke its leg in the mud.. vet was called but the horse tried to get up and gallop off and broke its other legs.. Took like what seemed for ever for the vet to get their and relieve this horse of the real pain he was in..
> 
> I know nothing about racing greyhounds..


To be honest, given what these poor horses are subjected too, the very least they should give them a quick end. Personally I'm not prepared to congratulate them on this or give them a pat on the back ...


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

Ok i feel like total crap now but we all have to live and learn i'm afraid, just because we put a bet on horse racing or dog racing it does not mean that we don't care about the animals welfare.

If these threads regarding the "Grand National" get personal then the mods will close them, so please can we just try to have a healthy debate.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

I didn't watch the race! I had no intention of watching the race and I certainly never placed a bet! When my father was alive the grand national was the most important day of the year in our house! Certainly overtook christmas and birthdays and yep! I remember the excitement picking my horse then watching through my fingers incase any of the poor horses would fall knowing that if they never got up they were almost certainly going to die!

If its any consulaltion the GN imo has over the years got safer then it used to be, that said my own view is that it is still a cruel race, and horses still die! and the only way I can voice my views is by neither watching it nor betting on it! BUT I sure weren't missed as this years race had the largest audience EVER!

Just one thing! 4 miles in a walk in the park for many a horse! and these horse are the fittiest there are - ALL horses love a good gallop - it is the ground (which were good today I would think ) and the fences that cause the damage here! 

And those who place a bet! hope you chose the winner ! but we all know at the end of the day there is only one REAL winner! the bookie!
DT


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Im thinking racing (going as fast as you can) and 30 horses.. Is what causes the damage...


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Im thinking racing (going as fast as you can) and 30 horses.. Is what causes the damage...


40 horses in the national. I think its the number too, glad many jockeys pulled them up today though


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Im thinking racing (going as fast as you can) and 30 horses.. Is what causes the damage...


all races are fast I would be intereted to know how many horses lose their life on the flat? It is the jumps!


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

Merseyside Animal Rights - Grand National, National Shame


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> all races are fast I would be intereted to know how many horses lose their life on the flat? It is the jumps!


Horses on the flat tend to suffer leg injuries DT I know more about in the USA, if you google Eight Belles, Barbaro or Ruffian you will see the type of injuries incurred. They start racing them younger and often bones/joints are not fully formed and risk more damage. They start later on the jumps.


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't think any of you can comment on the treatment of racehorses unless you have seen it for yourself. I have and they are NOT abused. They LOVE what they do.

If you bother reading the thread, you will see that we are opposed to horses running who don't have a good chance, which were the 2 who died today.

It's funny how we have to respect yours yet we don't get the same treatment. :nono:


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

shazalhasa said:


> There was a time when I'd spend Saturday afternoons watching horse racing and betting **** with my dad  Hardly ever get to watch it these days but I do enjoy watching the Grand National.
> 
> If I can get someone to pop to the bookies for me then I'll be having a bet, no point me going cos I'm clueless :blink: Big Fella Thanks and *Ballabriggs for me* I think but will have to check them all out properly first and probably change my mind once I've seen them getting ready to go in


Isn't it just typical that OH was too sick to make it to the bookies and my dad was out and about somewhere (skiving off going shopping) so I didn't win anything but I did beat OH who's choice only got 4th


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

shazalhasa said:


> Isn't it just typical that OH was too sick to make it to the bookies and my dad was out and about somewhere (skiving off going shopping) so I didn't win anything but I did beat OH who's choice only got 4th


Oh no how typical! You know you picked the winner though


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I bet you a tenner he doesn't make it home with his jockey! :scared:
> 
> I remember a few years ago only 6 horses crossed the line complete with riders  Out of 40


Haha I was right he unseated his jockey at the 11th both OK though luckily.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

Tapir said:


> I don't think any of you can comment on the treatment of racehorses unless you have seen it for yourself. I have and they are NOT abused. They LOVE what they do.
> 
> If you bother reading the thread, you will see that we are opposed to horses running who don't have a good chance, which were the 2 who died today.
> 
> It's funny how we have to respect yours yet we don't get the same treatment. :nono:


I think it's the same as with all forums and debates, you only see the two extremes. I imagine most of us are quietly agreeing that racing need not be outright banned; most horse owners are perfectly caring; but races like today's could and should have more done to reduce risks of fatality.


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