# 20 week old biting



## amble1066 (Dec 30, 2010)

hi all, i have a 20 week old english sheepdog ronnie,, he,s always been a nipper and we,ve been able to distract and the word NO as sufficed, till now, he dosnt take me seriously, i yelp or say no loudly yet he see,s this as an invitaion that i,m playing, he gets a little aggresive at times too, biting where ever on me he can,,the more i tell him off the more he does it,
ive tried the pinning him down way, he just gets right back up and nips again, 
ive yelped and cried out ouch n he really thinks this is great,,
and tonight ive tried shutting him in another room, which did work for a short time, is this the way to go?
and why is it just me he,s like it with, we have 3 kids all over 17 and they say no or tell him off n he stops, hubby only has to say no bite and he stops,, what am i doing wrong? 
i will add, he,s such an adorable boy at all other times, he just has the odd 15 mins now and then where he,s like this with me. x


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

I got my puppy out of biting and jumping using a spray bottle filled with water. Immediately after he nips spray it near his face. Alternatively you can get corrector sprays that let out a loud hiss. It is worth remembering such a young puppy will be teething so its a natural thing for him to chew things.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

some dogs stop when you yelp or pretend to cry - if they have learned some bite inhibition from their littermates, but others just get more and more excited by the sounds and get worse.
I wouldn't think that pinning a puppy would ever mean anything other than you're joining in with a wrestling match and to keep playing.
I found time-outs worked well with my collie when he was a pup - he was at his worst when he was tired so usually ended up falling asleep and being calmer when he woke up. And if it hadn't been due to tiredness - at least I got a break from his bad behaviour and could calm down myself.
Another thing people find that can work is to make sure you have a supply of chewable/bitable toys handy and when he's in that sort of mood make sure he has one of these in his mouth whey you're playing with him so he can get it right and be rewarded for biting appropriate things.
The one thing I'd try not to do is go down the aversive route of spraying water or using harsh sounds - all they do is teach your dog that you are not a nice person to be around and they can either teach your dog to be fear aggresive or to ignore you and escalate behaviour. It's always better to try to teach a dog what they should be doing rather than try to stop a behaviour.


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

speug said:


> some dogs stop when you yelp or pretend to cry - if they have learned some bite inhibition from their littermates, but others just get more and more excited by the sounds and get worse.
> I wouldn't think that pinning a puppy would ever mean anything other than you're joining in with a wrestling match and to keep playing.
> I found time-outs worked well with my collie when he was a pup - he was at his worst when he was tired so usually ended up falling asleep and being calmer when he woke up. And if it hadn't been due to tiredness - at least I got a break from his bad behaviour and could calm down myself.
> Another thing people find that can work is to make sure you have a supply of chewable/bitable toys handy and when he's in that sort of mood make sure he has one of these in his mouth whey you're playing with him so he can get it right and be rewarded for biting appropriate things.
> The one thing I'd try not to do is go down the aversive route of spraying water or using harsh sounds - all they do is teach your dog that you are not a nice person to be around and they can either teach your dog to be fear aggresive or to ignore you and escalate behaviour. It's always better to try to teach a dog what they should be doing rather than try to stop a behaviour.


I disagree. Using a spray bottle or corrector spray is a subtle way of saying, if you bite me something unpleasant happens. I am totally against physical punishment. I found doing what you suggested did not work for me. I only had to use the spray bottle less than 5 times and she stopped nipping.


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## amble1066 (Dec 30, 2010)

hi thanks for the replies, its so frustrating with him because he is such a lovely lad in every other way,, i dont think the spray bottle would work, he loves the hose pipe,,lol
and my house looks like i have toddlers again there are toys and chews everwhere, if i try and distract with a toy/chew he takes it drops in n starts back on me,,
i,m gonna keep trying the time out method for a while, like you say it gives us both time to calm down a little, and he knew when he was aloowed out that he,d done wrong,,
i do know the chewing and nipping in a herding way is normal for an oes, and the herding is fine,he does that often,,
and he reminds me of an over exited toddler when he,s biting, its like he just gets so exiting and doesnt know exactly what he,s doing,,
its not funny at the time but now i,m writing it i,m thinking, the little bugger,,lol


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

you could try shaking pebbles in a bottle


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

amble1066 said:


> hi all, i have a 20 week old english sheepdog ronnie,, he,s always been a nipper and we,ve been able to distract and the word NO as sufficed, till now, he dosnt take me seriously, i yelp or say no loudly yet he see,s this as an invitaion that i,m playing, he gets a little aggresive at times too, biting where ever on me he can,,the more i tell him off the more he does it,
> ive tried the pinning him down way, he just gets right back up and nips again,
> ive yelped and cried out ouch n he really thinks this is great,,
> and tonight ive tried shutting him in another room, which did work for a short time, is this the way to go?
> ...


pups chase bark and bite each other in the litter in play and to instigate play.
Its also where they should learn bite inhibition and to stop when they bite too hard. One bites the other too hard and they yelp, if they have learnt bite inhibition they should stop, Mum should also teach them not to bite too hard aswell. If they have learnt bite inhibition then a high pitched yelp like a pup in pain should stop them or get them to cease, if they havent learn it then they will continue, or with some it even hypes them up even more, so If you have tried a yelp as if in pain and it doesnt work abandon that one.

Pups tend to do it to humans for several reasons, either attention seeking, they are too over stimulated and hyper excited or it can even be that they are over tired wont give in and become grouchy and nippy over tiredness is another time you see unwanted behaviours.

The best way is to make biting you totally unproductive and unrewarding for them.

Fold your arms, and turn your back and as your turning say OFF, keep turned away arms folded stay still and look at the ceiling and totally ignore him, and stay that way until he has stopped, and make sure hes calmed down, then get him to sit and praise and treat, ONLY for continued calm behaviour, repeat it as many times as you have too and be persistent. You also need to do it the second he starts to get over excited or the second he starts to nip, if you leave it too long and he really starts to get into the behaviour its much harder to calm them down and get success.

If he doesnt calm down or starts up again after a few attempts, then pop him in another room, and leave him to calm down. Let him out but say and do nothing apart from letting him out, continue to totally ignore him for a few more minutes to make sure he has calmed down, then get him to sit and calm praise and a treat, ONLY for calm behaviour and not biting. If he goes to do it again repeat the whole thing and keep repeating it until he has got the message, nipping hyper behaviour gets him nothing at all, calm good behaviour doing as asked gets him attention and treats and for that only.

Teaching him a realiable sit and also a sit wait will teach impulse control so make sure you work on that too, also get him to sit and wait for anything he wants from you, or anything you give him. When his bottoms on the ground and his sitting and waiting then he wont be jumping up or nipping.

Once he has got the concept and is much better you can train him to cease biting with a game. If you get a soft old towel and put knots in it, invite him to play at your instigation only, as long as he is not getting over excited of biting too hard, the game continues, the second he gets hyper excited or starts to get carried away and bites too hard, use the command off, cease the game and put it away. Once calmed down not over excited and ready to play nicely resume the game. Finally the game is always ended when you decide as well.

Saying no, pushing them down, looking at them, making eye contact is all forms of attention to him and rewards the behaviour many people do it inadvertently not realising they are rewarding the behaviour which is often where they go wrong.

As some of the behaviour is due to over stimulation and tiredness too, and many pups wont give in, also make sure he has periods to wind down and rest inbetween, by giving him quiet time with something like a stuffed kong or treat toy or a chew to take it out on, they usually after winding down with things like this then rest and have a nap.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

Our little girl (puppy) is really bitey at the moment. My dog trainer recommends AH AH (as in short and sharp - as you might say to a toddler) and immediately replace your hand/arm/whatever with a toy and play with them with that so that you are showing them what is okay to bite. (it means having toys available in strategic locations). Hope this helps.


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## GoldenRetrieverman (Sep 7, 2012)

I think what she is saying is her pup listens to others that are doing what you are suggesting but it doesnt work with her?


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Stick with one of the positive reinforcement ideas for at least a couple of days and don't go down the spray water etc route. The trouble is they may be a quicker solution, but may make them nervous of you and instead of having a normal nipping pup you could end up with a dog that sees you as bringing bad things as well as a dog that is noise and water sensitive. 
Different things work for different dogs. My oldest stopped after a couple of 'time outs' and the youngest stopped with the yelping method. Eventually they stopped and both of mine are very gentle now.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Jobeth said:


> Stick with one of the positive reinforcement ideas for at least a couple of days and don't go down the spray water etc route. The trouble is they may be a quicker solution, but may make them nervous of you and instead of having a normal nipping pup you could end up with a dog that sees you as bringing bad things as well as a dog that is noise and water sensitive.
> Different things work for different dogs. My oldest stopped after a couple of 'time outs' and the youngest stopped with the yelping method. Eventually they stopped and both of mine are very gentle now.


I must say I do agree with Jobeth, although water sprays, pet correctors and rattle bottles can appear to work and work quickly, they can also seriously backfire with a lot of dogs especially pups. They work by supressing the behaviour as something unpleasant happens when they do it, but I have seen pups become nervous and noise sensitive with rattle bottles and pet correctors especially.

Pups can also enter a second fear period around 6mths or so times vary in individuals and breeds, but most usually have a fear period anytime between around 6/14 months, when even outgoing brave pups suddenly become reactive again to sights, sounds, noises and situations. Bad or negative experiences need to be avoided at this time is possible.

Where possible behaviour modification, ie teaching them to cease the unwanted behaviour and instead learning another acceptable behaviour in its place should always be the first consideration.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

GoldenRetrieverman said:


> I disagree. Using a spray bottle or corrector spray is a subtle way of saying,* if you bite me something unpleasant happens. I am totally against physical punishment*. I found doing what you suggested did not work for me. I only had to use the spray bottle less than 5 times and she stopped nipping.


Just because you're using a tool to inflict the unpleasant feeling doesn't mean it's not physical punishment. Also this technique rarely works, many dogs don't give a crap about having water sprayed on them, and some think it's super fun.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2012)

Wish mine thought water was super fun! Even try wipe her paws with a damp cloth n ud think she was getting stabbed


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## Skandi (May 4, 2012)

We used a spray bottle for barking, worked wonders, however didn't use it for biting, yelping didn't work, ignoring is impossible as she just bit harder and drew blood, I think time out would have worked IF I could have got her out of the room without a fight each time. What worked for us was holding her mouth shut or open each time she did it, with a ah ah/no at the same time. took less than a week with that, now she deosn't nip and if she does it's very gentle

As to only being you..well we had the oposite issue, she stopped on me way before anyone else, I think.. that it's becasue of consistancy, the housemate got bitten for a couple of months more than I did, because she was only telling her off by going, "bad girl don't do that" in a baby voice, and trying to redirect, which I think Jess just saw as a reward. "ooh I bit I got a toy, lets bite again".

Now I am happy to say all you get here is free washes.. lots of washes.


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## Maggs (Aug 10, 2012)

Ours is nippy at the moment because she is teething (she is 4.5 months old). My husband is strict with her from the very beginning so one NO from him is enough for her to stop, And turn to me. I also tell her to stop but she would try again and again. Apparently I am too soft with her. So I always have toys around us (it mostly happens when we are on the sofa and she starts nipping around) which I just give her instead of my hand. We have a rope for her which she likes to bite, a big ball which is also made of rope and a couple of kongs. Every now and again she would like her stick or soft ball, but rope and kongs are the favourites.
Also, sometimes she is nipping and does a small crying noise, I think her gums are sore so I give her ice cubes. They work wonders with Maggs, might be worth a try for you too.

Just read a previous post: never thought about it that by redirecting her to a toy I would encourage her to bite more...But quite possible actually. More thought on that one?


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