# How to stop her growling when tired



## Bulliesandshihtzu (Nov 21, 2012)

For months now our **** tzu has took to grumbling/growling at us when we stroke her if she's tired. I have been the vets for a full check up on her just to make sure it's nothing physical and she was given a complete clean bill of health which I kind of knew anyway. The vet said we should be firm with her but also give treats when stroking her so she associates good things with being stroked. Any other ideas?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't understand why you're intent on stroking her when she's tired?  Next time you're tired try letting your other half prod you every 20 seconds and see how it makes you feel. Dogs aren't robots, they have their own thoughts and feelings and they're not there to be stroked 24/7 and be happy about it.


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## Bulliesandshihtzu (Nov 21, 2012)

I didn't say I was intent on stroking her 24/7, it's not acceptable especially with kids in the house. If one of my 35gk English bull terriers did it it certainly wouldn't be acceptable why should a shih tzu be able to do it?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I think it's acceptable to be annoyed when you're trying to sleep and someone wakes you up, but it's just personal preference I suppose. I would suggest explaining to your kids that the dog is not a toy and to leave it alone when it's sleeping, so many problems occur with dogs and kids because the kids will not leave the dogs be.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

I'd rather be growled at by a tired dog then snapped at and bitten because I didn't listen to the obvious signal i.e. I'm tired, please leave me alone. I'm a moody cow myself if I get pestered when Im tired.

I understand to some, that growling is unnaceptable, but if you have already acknowledged the dog is tired at that point then why push it further into a situation of no return....you are setting it up to fail surely.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> For months now our **** tzu has took to grumbling/growling at us when we stroke her if she's tired. I have been the vets for a full check up on her just to make sure it's nothing physical and she was given a complete clean bill of health which I kind of knew anyway. The vet said we should be firm with her but also give treats when stroking her so she associates good things with being stroked. Any other ideas?


Yes, stop stroking her when she is tired. The dog is communicating with you and telling you that she does not like what you are doing, so what does she have to do for you to get the message? Bite you?

Then you will have effectively taught her not to growl when tired, she will skip that bit because you have ignored her. 

If you want to remove a warning signal, go ahead. Put yourself and your children at risk why don't you.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> I didn't say I was intent on stroking her 24/7, it's not acceptable especially with kids in the house. If one of my 35gk English bull terriers did it it certainly wouldn't be acceptable why should a shih tzu be able to do it?


Why is it not acceptable for her to tell you she is unhappy with a situation? She is a dog, not a robot 

Growling is a sign for you to take notice of, if you reprimand her for this then maybe she will just bite instead. I think you all need to just leave her alone when she is tired & make sure your children take note of this. If you are worried they won't then maybe get your dog a crate or let her have her own room to give her some space.

I would say this whether it was a GSD, Rottie or Chi - doesn't matter on the size of the dog at all.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> I didn't say I was intent on stroking her 24/7, it's not acceptable especially with kids in the house. If one of my 35gk English bull terriers did it it certainly wouldn't be acceptable why should a shih tzu be able to do it?


You teach your kids that dogs do talk and when they growling they are saying "leave me alone, I am tired". It doesn't matter what size or breed of dog it is, nobody is telling you this because it is a little dog. If my 12 stone newfie growls, I am certainly not arguing and I know he won't bite. It is his way of saying, go away. He is entitled to have feelings and grumpy times just like the rest of us.

If you stop the dog from warning the next time he will just bite. Then you will be saying "vicious dog, something wrong with it" when in fact it is your own doing.



Cleo38 said:


> Why is it not acceptable for her to tell you she is unhappy with a situation? She is a dog, not a robot
> 
> Growling is a sign for you to take notice of, if you reprimand her for this then maybe she will just bite instead. I think you all need to just leave her alone when she is tired & make sure your children take note of this. If you are worried they won't then maybe get your dog a crate or let her have her own room to give her some space.
> 
> I would say this whether it was a GSD, Rottie or Chi - doesn't matter on the size of the dog at all.


What she said.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Agree with everyone else 

A bull terrier growling is no differece to a shitzu growling, both are trying to tell you something, ie. I don't like what your doing


heard the saying 'let sleeping dogs lie'


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

What everyone else said , however to add a positive... Good that you did check with your vet that there was nothing physicaly wrong


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

Your dog is just telling you that they want to be left alone, imagine if someone kept prodding you while you were trying to sleep, you'd be pretty annoyed and so is your dog.

I'm sorry that you find this unacceptable but your dogs has their own mind and personality and you should respect that.

Also it's unfair to expect a dog to modify perfectly understandable behaviour instead of expecting children to learn how to behave appropriately around them.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I`m slightly shocked that a vet would see discomfort after exercise as a problem rather than a syptom! :nonod:
I would change my vet - have the dog checked for joint pain - and teach the children to respect your dog.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2012)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> I didn't say I was intent on stroking her 24/7, it's not acceptable especially with kids in the house. If one of my 35gk English bull terriers did it it certainly wouldn't be acceptable why should a shih tzu be able to do it?


I'm not sure what you're finding unacceptable? That the dog doesn't want to be bothered when tired, or that the dog is growling to let you know she doesn't want to be bothered, or ???

If you don't want the dog to growl, you could provide her with a bed or a crate, and teach her to go there when she's tired, then teach the kids to never bother her when she's in her crate or bed.

When she is up for petting, teach the kids how to pet her nicely so that the dog enjoys it. 
Some dogs don't like being smothered with attention, some don't like their ears bothered, others love having their ears rubbed, some don't like their eyes covered, others don't like feeling confined or having someone loom over top of them. 
Figure out your dog's likes and teach the kids to pet her in a way she likes. You shouldn't need treats to get a dog to enjoy pets, the petting should be enjoyable on its own. Now, if she has a lot of negative associations with the kids, then yes, by all means counter condition that with treats.

Whatever you do, do not scold or otherwise punish the dog for growling. A dog who feels their growl will not be "heard" will generally escalate to the next warning level - an air snap or bite. I'd much rather my children be growled at than bitten wouldn't you?

Finally, check out these articles about kids and dogs:
Good Dogs Don't Bite Children, Do They? | Dogs and Babies
What Should Baby See You Do With Your Dog? | Dogs and Babies

HTH


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> I didn't say I was intent on stroking her 24/7, it's not acceptable especially with kids in the house. If one of my 35gk English bull terriers did it it certainly wouldn't be acceptable why should a shih tzu be able to do it?


Unfortunately your ShihTzu is probably deemed 'cuter' by your children and so I would assume more likely to be picked up or cuddled, often rather abruptly in my experience of children. You're right, a grumpy dog and children don't go together, but rather than try to stop a clear communication by your dog that she would like to go to sleep, I would perhaps make her up a cosy den/bed and when she's tired, teach her to go in that to sleep, and teach the kids under no circumstances should they touch her when she's in her bed. That should stop the growling.

When dogs are told off for growling they may stop making the noise, but the feelings they have of wanting to be left alone are still there.

I was bitten by a Shihtzu a month or so again - I just wanted to towel some mud off him and he turned round bit me straight away. That's a dog that has learned that growling to ask to be left alone doesn't work and so he's gone straight to the bite.


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## Bulliesandshihtzu (Nov 21, 2012)

The reason I prob find it strange is that in 15 years of owners dogs I've never had one that didn't want to be touched, it's not always when she's tired the growling has started to be whenever she feels like growling at us. Maybe I need to retrain the way I think, but if ever I've touched my others no matter tired or not they have never growled.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Is your dog crate trained? Or have an enclosed bed?

I think you need to work with the dog rather then against the dog. Allow your dog it's own personal space in an enclosed space where she cannot be bothered by anyone else. 

You must teach any children that are around your dog to respect the dogs space, this is why a crate could be a brilliant idea. 

It's a part of your dogs personality and I don't think you should want to change that, if my 30kg dog started growling because he was tired I would simply invite him into his crate and let him relax (i don't lock the door). The kids here know their rules around the dogs and respect them! 

No problems


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## Bulliesandshihtzu (Nov 21, 2012)

No she doesn't use her bed or crate, she just goes wherever. Her bed is full of toys and the crate has been taken down as she has never chosen to use them. She will growl whether on the floor, sofa, window ledge, my bed. I just find it strange, I was brought up with my parents having working dogs and pets and I have owned my own 4 for 15 years and I've never known another dog growl, not grandparents dogs, friends dogs, none?


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2012)

i keep waking matty up with my coughing  hes so good cause he looks at me gets up and kisses my face then cuddles up to me  although last night in bed he looked annoyed when i woke him up coughing


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> No she doesn't use her bed or crate, she just goes wherever. Her bed is full of toys and the crate has been taken down as she has never chosen to use them. She will growl whether on the floor, sofa, window ledge, my bed. I just find it strange, I was brought up with my parents having working dogs and pets and I have owned my own 4 for 15 years and I've never known another dog growl, not grandparents dogs, friends dogs, none?


Every dog is different! I've looked after a couple of hundred over the last 6 years, and probably around a dozen of them have really not wanted to be touched too much.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> No she doesn't use her bed or crate, she just goes wherever. Her bed is full of toys and the crate has been taken down as she has never chosen to use them. She will growl whether on the floor, sofa, window ledge, my bed. I just find it strange, I was brought up with my parents having working dogs and pets and I have owned my own 4 for 15 years and I've never known another dog growl, not grandparents dogs, friends dogs, none?


Maybe start a new thread (the dog chat section gets more traffic) and ask advice about why she does it all the time, is she just a dog who wants to be left alone or is something specific upsetting her.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

It could also be trust thing? She may just want to relax but can't with people about? It's hard to give suggestions not knowing anything about the situation!

I never had a dog growl but then I don't really give them any affection unless walking, training, playing or doing some kind of activity as part of rewarding them or unless they come to me for a cuddle n a fuss!

Might just be her, my sister min pin is similar. She doesn't growl but she pulls a face and walks away and will keep avoiding you until you let her relax.


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## Bulliesandshihtzu (Nov 21, 2012)

She can relax all day as we're at work from 8-2, maybe we just love her more than she loves us


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> She can relax all day as we're at work from 8-2, maybe we just love her more than she loves us


Where a dog likes being stroked has nothing to do with love.  I think you might be projecting human emotions onto your dog which is never helpful.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't think you should take it personally but maybe look at how you all interact with her. Look at other signals she may be giving off, subtle changes in body language, etc.

Does she growl every time she is approached? How is she with the other dogs? Do you have any games you play with her? How is she during these?


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## Bulliesandshihtzu (Nov 21, 2012)

She loves dogs and cats, loves walks, we play a lot of fetch in the house and reward training, sit, stay, down ect with treats.


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## Bulliesandshihtzu (Nov 21, 2012)

Not every time no, especially if she's resting but like I said not always, she never growls if I stroke her when I'm snacking or have a drink in my hand


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I suppose without seeing each instance it's hard for people to advise as it may just be how she is. 

I would make sure though that if she is tired or particularly growly then she has some space & no one bothers her.


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## tailtickle (Mar 19, 2012)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> For months now our **** tzu has took to grumbling/growling at us when we *stroke* her if she's tired. I have been the vets for a full check up on her just to make sure it's nothing physical and she was given a complete clean bill of health which I kind of knew anyway. *The vet said we should be firm with her* but also give treats when stroking her so she associates good things with being stroked. Any other ideas?


Hi, Sorry to be the Party Pooper, but you sound sensible and caring. (You said "Stroking" her, which does not come across as the children or yourself treating her disrespectfully, and picking her up or chasing her around. Also you took the time and cost to check with your Vet too. Equally interesting that your Vet should suggest you be a little "Firmer", did the Vet have a feeling that she may be a little spoilt perhaps)?

Anyway, something to consider, do you as a family intend to continually tip-toe around your dog, in case she is tired and growls? Perhaps it would be useful (for safety aspect, or your proposed pleasant behaviour) to discover first if she is laying down because she is tired, or because she as chosen to lay down rather than sit, or is simply resting! (Asking her will not help, so colour coding is out, and a family discussion to determine which, would stretch time and opportunity, as well as dampen that special moment). Oh dear.

Remember the Goose & Gander - so when she comes to you for a snuggly cuddle, GROWL at her if you want to, and no one will say that is unacceptable behaviour!

My own gut feeling is something your Vet thought and said .....

tailtickle x


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2012)

tailtickle said:


> Hi, Sorry to be the Party Pooper, but you sound sensible and caring. (You said "Stroking" her, which does not come across as the children or yourself treating her disrespectfully, and picking her up or chasing her around. Also you took the time and cost to check with your Vet too. Equally interesting that your Vet should suggest you be a little "Firmer", did the Vet have a feeling that she may be a little spoilt perhaps)?
> 
> Anyway, something to consider, do you as a family intend to continually tip-toe around your dog, in case she is tired and growls? Perhaps it would be useful (for safety aspect, or your proposed pleasant behaviour) to discover first if she is laying down because she is tired, or because she as chosen to lay down rather than sit, or is simply resting! (Asking her will not help, so colour coding is out, and a family discussion to determine which, would stretch time and opportunity, as well as dampen that special moment). Oh dear.
> 
> ...


What would you consider to be a valid reason for a dog to growl at a human?


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2012)

maybe she's having an off day?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

tailtickle said:


> Hi, Sorry to be the Party Pooper, but you sound sensible and caring. (You said "Stroking" her, which does not come across as the children or yourself treating her disrespectfully, and picking her up or chasing her around. Also you took the time and cost to check with your Vet too. Equally interesting that your Vet should suggest you be a little "Firmer", did the Vet have a feeling that she may be a little spoilt perhaps)?
> 
> Anyway, something to consider, do you as a family intend to continually tip-toe around your dog, in case she is tired and growls? Perhaps it would be useful (for safety aspect, or your proposed pleasant behaviour) to discover first if she is laying down because she is tired, or because she as chosen to lay down rather than sit, or is simply resting! (Asking her will not help, so colour coding is out, and a family discussion to determine which, would stretch time and opportunity, as well as dampen that special moment). Oh dear.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you are on about here but just to clarify, no one is suggesting that the OP tip toe round the dog, just that they listen what he has to say. Why anyone would growl at the dog is beyond me, growling is not human languge and why deny the dog a fuss if he wants one? Do you supposed he will think it is because he wouldn't let the OP fuss him the night before?

A vet is not the place to go for behaviourial advice. Certainly the OP did the right thing by going for a check up; the dog could well be growling because it is in pain, but other than medical advice, the vet is no more knowledgeable than the owners.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

tailtickle said:


> Hi, Sorry to be the Party Pooper, but you sound sensible and caring. (You said "Stroking" her, which does not come across as the children or yourself treating her disrespectfully, and picking her up or chasing her around. Also you took the time and cost to check with your Vet too. Equally interesting that your Vet should suggest you be a little "Firmer", did the Vet have a feeling that she may be a little spoilt perhaps)?
> 
> Anyway, something to consider, do you as a family intend to continually tip-toe around your dog, in case she is tired and growls? Perhaps it would be useful (for safety aspect, or your proposed pleasant behaviour) to discover first if she is laying down because she is tired, or because she as chosen to lay down rather than sit, or is simply resting! (Asking her will not help, so colour coding is out, and a family discussion to determine which, would stretch time and opportunity, as well as dampen that special moment). Oh dear.
> 
> ...


I think plenty of people will say it's unacceptable to growl at your dog, the dog won't connect it to her own growling behaviour, a tit for tat approach is hardly a good training method or in any way respectful or empathetic of the dogs feelings.


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## tailtickle (Mar 19, 2012)

The point of the _'Goose/Gander and Growling AT the the dog' _as been misunderstood. It was written as Irony.

(Hopefully, someone read it as such, more especially the person who wrote the Message).

tailtickle x


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

when my dogs are tired they are left alone, if a dog wanted to play with another dog and that 1 was tired it would growl thats normal, any children that come to my home are told if the dog is tired leave it alone, by growling its the only way your dog can say "leave me alone" the next step for alot of dogs would be to snap at the person who wont leave that dog alone, please listen to what your dog is telling you,


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2012)

tailtickle said:


> The point of the _'Goose/Gander and Growling AT the the dog' _as been misunderstood. It was written as Irony.
> 
> (Hopefully, someone read it as such, more especially the person who wrote the Message).
> 
> tailtickle x


But its not really ironic, because we humans *do* growl at our dogs all the time. If I don't want the giant dog in my lap I tell him to get down. If I don't want attention from the dog at that moment, i tell him "enough", and he knows that means I don't want anything from him. Dogs can't speak English, but they can communicate their needs to us, and if a dog is needing space I have no problem with him communicating that.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ouesi said:


> But its not really ironic, because we humans *do* growl at our dogs all the time. If I don't want the giant dog in my lap I tell him to get down. If I don't want attention from the dog at that moment, i tell him "enough", and he knows that means I don't want anything from him. Dogs can't speak English, but they can communicate their needs to us, and if a dog is needing space I have no problem with him communicating that.


And there are certain so-called trainers who will tell you that to train your dog you need to behave like a dog, growling, prodding to simulate a nip, holding him down and all sorts of rubbish. So while it might have been said in and ironic context, it is something some people take seriously.


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## Bulliesandshihtzu (Nov 21, 2012)

tailtickle said:


> Hi, Sorry to be the Party Pooper, but you sound sensible and caring. (You said "Stroking" her, which does not come across as the children or yourself treating her disrespectfully, and picking her up or chasing her around. Also you took the time and cost to check with your Vet too. Equally interesting that your Vet should suggest you be a little "Firmer", did the Vet have a feeling that she may be a little spoilt perhaps)?
> 
> Anyway, something to consider, do you as a family intend to continually tip-toe around your dog, in case she is tired and growls? Perhaps it would be useful (for safety aspect, or your proposed pleasant behaviour) to discover first if she is laying down because she is tired, or because she as chosen to lay down rather than sit, or is simply resting! (Asking her will not help, so colour coding is out, and a family discussion to determine which, would stretch time and opportunity, as well as dampen that special moment). Oh dear.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this, I did go to the vet because I was worried she may be in pain, I asked the vet what her advise would be and she said we need to be firmer with her and growling for just being stroked isn't ideal. I don't have very little children they are 9 and 14 and r very respectful of all animal but they have had a year and half of being able to snuggle with her and are as children can be forgetful that she doesn't like it now. I don't think it's wrong for children to want to love an animal, I do mean stroke, I'm not prodding, smacking, moving her just a like stroke to show affection.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2012)

Bulliesandshihtzu said:


> Thank you for this, I did go to the vet because I was worried she may be in pain, I asked the vet what her advise would be and she said we need to be firmer with her and growling for just being stroked isn't ideal. I don't have very little children they are 9 and 14 and r very respectful of all animal but *they have had a year and half of being able to snuggle with her* and are as children can be forgetful that she doesn't like it now. I don't think it's wrong for children to want to love an animal, I do mean stroke, I'm not prodding, smacking, moving her just a like stroke to show affection.


Did you read the links I posted?
They address this part exactly, how a normally "good" dog can apparently suddenly become intolerant.


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## Bulliesandshihtzu (Nov 21, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Did you read the links I posted?
> They address this part exactly, how a normally "good" dog can apparently suddenly become intolerant.


Yes I've read them, as I said my kids aren't really little, in fact they r so tired of her behaviour they are giving her less and less attention what I don't want is for them to loose interest all together. I will just leave her alone and let her come to us if she wants attention, it's hard, I probably need her more than she needs me.


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## koolchick (Apr 5, 2011)

You could try setting a place maybe the dogs bed where he can go if he doesn't want disturbing. learn him that if he growls he gets put on the bed and gets left alone and if he goes to bed on his own he is left alone. 

I don't know why people are saying there is nothing wrong with a dog growling when stroked if he's tired. I've had 5 dogs and not a single one has ever growled when stroked if tired. None have even growled if stroked on their beds. I wouldn't want a dog growling at me just for being stroked.


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## LauraJane9 (Oct 3, 2012)

koolchick said:


> You could try setting a place maybe the dogs bed where he can go if he doesn't want disturbing. learn him that if he growls he gets put on the bed and gets left alone and if he goes to bed on his own he is left alone.
> 
> I don't know why people are saying there is nothing wrong with a dog growling when stroked if he's tired. I've had 5 dogs and not a single one has ever growled when stroked if tired. None have even growled if stroked on their beds. I wouldn't want a dog growling at me just for being stroked.


No one is saying that there is nothing wrong with it, we are saying that it is the dogs right to be able to say when they want to be left alone.

Nobody wants a dog growling at them when they are trying to show it affection but clearly this dog doesn't like it so that should be respected or if the OP is really bothered by it they could attempt to understand why exactly it happens and modify certain things to help the dog be more approacable.


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