# So Upset...don't know what to do!



## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok after posting on here some days ago about my shih tzu's strange behaviour...it was established that she was having a phantom pregnancy,she has all the symptoms etc...
Now earlier tonight i was having a coffee and chat with my friend and next door neighbour and was discussing sophie with her,when she got a little flustered and told me something that has turned everything on it's head.

Well,as it goes my neighbour comes to feed and let my dogs out during the day while i'm working but sometime last month she let her daughter come round to let them out which is normally ok...it turns out her daughter let their male westie round too...she doesnt know if anything happened because she was sorting their food out while they were outside but we have worked out that sophie would have been in season 
My neighbour never told me because she didnt think anything happened...but as i said,if she had there is a mismate jab we could have sorted out...if anything did happen then my baby could be having babies :scared:
I am so scared!!!
I am always sceptical when people go on about how their dog got pregnant "accidentaly" but hey :confused1:


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## Amy&Ted (Jul 14, 2010)

No point being scared... guess a trip to the vet is in order


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

how long ago was this?

mismate is valid for quite a few weeks.


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## corrine3 (Feb 22, 2009)

All very well saying 'no point in being scared' but people cant help how they feel sometimes. Just try to remain calm and get to the vet tomorrow, whatever happens you will cope with the outcome. Positive thinking


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> how long ago was this?
> 
> mismate is valid for quite a few weeks.


i'm not sure exactly but maybe 6 weeks or so...


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## Amy&Ted (Jul 14, 2010)

corrine3 said:


> All very well saying 'no point in being scared' but people cant help how they feel sometimes. Just try to remain calm and get to the vet tomorrow, whatever happens you will cope with the outcome. Positive thinking


No i appreciate that but being scared can cause people to bury their head in the sand and i'm sure Dan wants what's best for his dog... so best to just keep cool and get to the vet ASAP.


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## corrine3 (Feb 22, 2009)

Amy&Ted said:


> No i appreciate that but being scared can cause people to bury their head in the sand and i'm sure Dan wants what's best for his dog... so best to just keep cool and get to the vet ASAP.


ok fair enough  def cant bury their head if the pups come thats for sure!


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

I can see why you'd be worried, but the vet will know what's best and will be able to help and reassure you, hope it goes ok ((hugs))


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## Amy&Ted (Jul 14, 2010)

corrine3 said:


> ok fair enough  def cant bury their head if the pups come thats for sure!


Crikey no! I'd be burying my head in some pregnancy books :thumbup:


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Alizin mismate can be given up to 45 days, so you would be just borderline here. If i was you i would contact your vet to discuss the risks associated with alazin so late and with your dog having pups. Westies are usually a bit bigger than the tzu's ive met, so the risks could be substantial!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Like everyone has said take your girl the vets  Many years ago when my OH first moved to Wales he had to leave his dog with his father and step mother when he started a new job. Unknown to him the step mother would chain Candy outside to a pole  she wasn't neutered at that time and obviously she came into season and was caught.

He took her to the vet and had an emergency spay as soon as he found out (but he only found out half way through the pregnancy).


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

Wow...ok...i havent a clue about pregnant dogs or anything...i'm working a damned lot at the moment and cant expect my neighbour to take care of my dogs and half a dozen puppies too 
Oh dear,the more i think about it the more upsetting it is


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

i will take her to the vets as soon as possible and maybe get her scanned,i guess its just a case of wait and see now...i just wish my neighbour had told me sooner


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

tuesday morning, be at the vets lol.... noone here can tell you for sure, but the vets can do a scan give you a rough gestation age and then give you your options and a full lowdown on the risks involved.


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks guys,i just feel like i let sophie down by not being here alot lately...this wouldnt have happened if i had been.
The thing is earlier this year i took in an 18 month old lhasa that had had a miserable start to life and just so happened to be 4 weeks pregnant,she had a few health issues and also a hernia,so i went ahead and had the pregnancy terminated for her sake...no matter how terrible i felt at the time and still do at times i know i did what was best for her...so to have to go through all that heartache again is almost to hard to think about


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## Amy&Ted (Jul 14, 2010)

Dan79 said:


> Thanks guys,i just feel like i let sophie down by not being here alot lately...this wouldnt have happened if i had been.
> The thing is earlier this year i took in an 18 month old lhasa that had had a miserable start to life and just so happened to be 4 weeks pregnant,she had a few health issues and also a hernia,so i went ahead and had the pregnancy terminated for her sake...no matter how terrible i felt at the time and still do at times i know i did what was best for her...so to have to go through all that heartache again is almost to hard to think about


 Must be hard to swallow. Hopefully everything will go well at the vets eh? Fingers crossed xx


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2010)

Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear.
So sorry to hear that she may be pregnant after all 
From what you have described to me, I would think she is much more than 6 weeks pregnant, more like 8


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

rona said:


> Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear.
> So sorry to hear that she may be pregnant after all
> From what you have described to me, I would think she is much more than 6 weeks pregnant, more like 8


:eek6: oh...ok!
So no time for mismate then...how do i prepare for puppies in such a short space of time???
The more i think about it the more likely i think it is that she is really pregnant and not just having a phantom...ok so nows the time to think logical...my baby is probably gonna have babies pretty soon....what do i need?? what are the best books to get?? and will the vet do a scan the same day??


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

you mention in another of your posts that your bitch had a season 4-5 weeks ago (on 25th aug)...


was that when the season began or finished?

If its when it began then there may still be time, if its when it finished..... then you are expecting pups in about 7-10days!

You need to get your bitch scanned asap lol


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> you mention in another of your posts that your bitch had a season 4-5 weeks ago (on 25th aug)...
> 
> was that when the season began or finished?
> 
> ...


That post said she finished 4-5 weeks ago. I think she will have pups if she is pregnant in about 5-7 days  She is already digging her bed


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Westietzu's are lovely Hey Bet she had Fun  While no one was watching


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

That when she finished so does that really make her so far along???


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2010)

For anyone that can help
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/119356-my-girls-strange-behaviour.html
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/120001-phantom-pregnancies.html

These are previous threads by the OP


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2010)

Dan, have you seen this thread

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/98252-steps-take-after-mating-your-bitch.html

Tanya is the one to help you but she isn't online at the moment


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

I just dont know how i wouldnt know she was so pregnant...she has put a bit of weight on but doesnt look pregnant,her breasts are developing but they do that with a false pregnancy also 
Ok stupid question maybe but here goes...can i use a pregnancy test on her,lol...i just need to know!!!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

No, you need to take her to the vets.


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

rona said:


> Dan, have you seen this thread
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/98252-steps-take-after-mating-your-bitch.html
> 
> Tanya is the one to help you but she isn't online at the moment


Thanks Rona...just gonna have a read now and see if i can shed any light on the situation


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

rona said:


> For anyone that can help
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/119356-my-girls-strange-behaviour.html
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/120001-phantom-pregnancies.html
> 
> These are previous threads by the OP


On the first thread its stated that her season finished 4-5 weeks ago. That was on the 15/8/10

So going by that she would have been mated approx say 4/7/10 so pups due approx 6th sept.

Can your neighbour not remember when her daughter was around?

Also you mention about having a male Shih Tzu. Is there any chance He too could have got too her?

Thats going between the 4-5 weeks finish of season. Can you remember when the exact season was?


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Unfortunately you cant use a pregnancy test on her (you can with primates though so not so stupid to ask)

There is a lot of help and support to be had on the forum, I wish you the very best of luck.
Hopefully tanya will be on soon, will try and find you the link to her new website. 
you need book of the bitch as well, the sticky on whelping essentials I guess is a good place to start.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

blimmin heck.... pups anyday now, and tbh too late to do anything about them either.

You are going to need a vet to check the size of the pups, and if i was you contact ANY local breeder to you and ask if they can help, especially see if they have a copy of the book of the bitch to hand for you to express read!


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Dan79 said:


> I just dont know how i wouldnt know she was so pregnant...she has put a bit of weight on but doesnt look pregnant,her breasts are developing but they do that with a false pregnancy also
> Ok stupid question maybe but here goes...can i use a pregnancy test on her,lol...i just need to know!!!


Hi, good luck with whatever happens. You cannot use a pregnancy test as they will 
produce the same hormone in a phantom as they do if they are pregnant, that is why pregnancy test wont work. The vet can do a blood test. To be quite honest if she is as far gone as you think, the vet should be able to feel the puppies in her stomach. You will need to find her a safe place and build a whelping box soon if she only has a week to go. I would also start taking her temp so you will know when it drops. This is one of the first signs on labour. Keep us posted


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

deb53 said:


> On the first thread its stated that her season finished 4-5 weeks ago. That was on the 15/8/10
> 
> So going by that she would have been mated approx say 4/7/10 so pups due approx 6th sept.
> 
> ...


No deb,i have 2 males but both are neutered thats why i didnt have any clue she could be pregnant...my neighbour just said around 6 weeks ago she couldnt be any more specific...but they were all playing together for around half an hour so who knows what they got up to!
my neighbour is being very good i must admit...she has offered to pay what she can towards any vet fees.


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Dan79 said:


> No deb,i have 2 males but both are neutered thats why i didnt have any clue she could be pregnant...my neighbour just said around 6 weeks ago she couldnt be any more specific...but they were all playing together for around half an hour so who knows what they got up to!
> my neighbour is being very good i must admit...she has offered to pay what she can towards any vet fees.


So it was definatly the time your neighbbours dog was there then......
The 6 weeks ago ties in with your thread saying her season finished 4/5 weeks ago.

You need to get her checked at the vets and also change her onto puppy food straight away if she is pregnant.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Dan79 said:


> I just dont know how i wouldnt know she was so pregnant...she has put a bit of weight on but doesnt look pregnant,her breasts are developing but they do that with a false pregnancy also
> Ok stupid question maybe but here goes...can i use a pregnancy test on her,lol...i just need to know!!!


Sometimes even the most experienced breeders don't always know their dogs are pregnant.

My eldest girl has had two litters (both intentional) - her first litter it was obvious very early on - then - she had a bad phantom - so much so I really thought my boy had got to her  her 2nd litter - I genuinely didn't know for definite until she was scanned.

No point beating yourself up about it - what's done is done - as others have said - get your girl checked out at the vet, explore your options and go from there.

It's always a worry when someone comes in - I know I am paranoid when any of my girls are in season.

Let us know how you get on at the vets.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2010)

How does she seem today?


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

rona said:


> How does she seem today?


Hi Rona... she seems to be very hungry to be fair...which i had noticed about a week ago,she will eat anything and everything at the moment...i got really curious and started looking through recent photos of her...she has put a lot more weight on than i first thought and most of it being around her middle 
I will be taking her to the vets tomorrow so i will know for sure whats going on!


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## Amy&Ted (Jul 14, 2010)

Dan79 said:


> Hi Rona... she seems to be very hungry to be fair...which i had noticed about a week ago,she will eat anything and everything at the moment...i got really curious and started looking through recent photos of her...she has put a lot more weight on than i first thought and most of it being around her middle
> I will be taking her to the vets tomorrow so i will know for sure whats going on!


Good Luck Dan!!! :thumbup:


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2010)

Dan79 said:


> Hi Rona... she seems to be very hungry to be fair...which i had noticed about a week ago,she will eat anything and everything at the moment...i got really curious and started looking through recent photos of her...she has put a lot more weight on than i first thought and most of it being around her middle
> I will be taking her to the vets tomorrow so i will know for sure whats going on!


She will be ravenous if you haven't increased her food and she is pregnant.
I will be waiting tomorrow for updates


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

Good luck - I really hope all is well and that whatever happens, she will be ok (and so will you!!!)


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## ruth9 (Mar 15, 2009)

Just found this thread. This must have been a shock. Good luck at the vets tomorrow.


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## Matrix/Logan (May 7, 2009)

Good luck at the vets, hope she isn't pregnant and you can get her in to be spayed then that will save you an awful lot of stress! Bless ya!!


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Good luck at the vets


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

well iv just got back from the vets and it seems Sophie IS gonna be a mum 
the vet thinks she has a couple of weeks left but couldnt scan her today so she will be going friday...so there it is,i guess i'd better start panicking now!!!


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

oh heck! 

I guess its too late for mismate?


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> oh heck!
> 
> I guess its too late for mismate?


Yes because he's not sure exactly how many days she is,she could be just over the 45 days or whatever the cut off is


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

oh bugger again.

Well..... i can only wish you the VERY VERY best of luck! 


Is there a breeder nearby that you trust who can come and hold your hand through this? 

Maybe someone on here has a book of the bitch they can lend?


oooh have a look at devildogs sticky about the stuff your going to need for your whelping kit too!


edit meant to say... time to go knocking on the randy dads house too


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> oh bugger again.
> 
> Well..... i can only wish you the VERY VERY best of luck!
> 
> ...


Thanks...i'm trying to gather as much info as possible at the moment,but as iv said before iv never had a dog give birth and never even seen it so i'm a little nervous right now,i will be looking into getting a breeder to help me out when the time comes,because i think i will fall to peices seeing my girl in pain like that 
As for the daddy dog...well,his owner isnt answering my calls at all right now,i think she knows and is afraid of paying towards the vet fees after all...


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

I always see this book recommended i would order it with express delivery :scared:Book of the Bitch: Amazon.co.uk: J.M. Evans, Kay White: Books

Have you also read the link about what you might need for a whelping kit? There are a few people who are very experienced who might be willing to give you there numbers to have a chat or be on hand. It might be helpful starting a thread with a more specific thread title now you know your defiantly going to have pups. To get more helpfull advise.


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

Pointermum said:


> I always see this book recommended i would order it with express delivery :scared:Book of the Bitch: Amazon.co.uk: J.M. Evans, Kay White: Books
> 
> Have you also read the link about what you might need for a whelping kit? There are a few people who are very experienced who might be willing to give you there numbers to have a chat or be on hand. It might be helpful starting a thread with a more specific thread title now you know your defiantly going to have pups. To get more helpfull advise.


Great idea,thanks


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2010)

Oh no, what a bad situation to be in. I'm sure you will both manage fine with all the help available here. I will be bowing out now because I have very little experience, but I wish you luck and I will be keeping an eye on your threads and wishing you well


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

I wish you every good luck too. I was in a similar situation myself when I rehomed a pregnant dog unknown to me or her previous owner. 

Boy it was a steep learning curve! I had just two weeks to prepare 

But with the help and excellent advice of some of the guys on this forum I got through with all puppies alive and well. 

Mum had to have a c-section though which was a trauma.

The breeders on here who post to give people like us the benefit of their experience are wonderful. :thumbup:


Maisie's been spayed now so no more accidents for her


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Dan79 said:


> Thanks...i'm trying to gather as much info as possible at the moment,but as iv said before iv never had a dog give birth and never even seen it so i'm a little nervous right now,i will be looking into getting a breeder to help me out when the time comes,because i think i will fall to peices seeing my girl in pain like that
> As for the daddy dog...well,his owner isnt answering my calls at all right now,i think she knows and is afraid of paying towards the vet fees after all...


 sorry the news isn't better.

This might sound like an almost throw away comment at the moment, but stockpile AS MANY old newspapers as you can possibly get your hands on - never underestimate the amount you will need - better too many than too few - you can always send the remainder for recycling.

Invest in:

Book of the Bitch: Amazon.co.uk: J.M. Evans, Kay White: Books

and Tanya's website is a wealth of useful information
Home - Breeding Your Dog

Depending on how handy you are - a lot of people make their own whelping boxes - I got mine from Link-a-bord Whelping Box and can't praise either the product or the service them highly enough 

Good luck


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Hey Dan how is she doing today? Feeling a bit more prepared yet or still overwhelmed? Can't wait to see the new arrivals !


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## Charlieboy1980 (Aug 10, 2010)

good luck Dan - keep us informed:thumbup:


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

NicoleW said:


> Hey Dan how is she doing today? Feeling a bit more prepared yet or still overwhelmed? Can't wait to see the new arrivals !


She's doing good thanks,i'm trying to get her onto puppy food at the moment but sophie being sophie is not happy with any change whatsoever and is refusing to eat it 
Anyway after the initial shock i think i'm starting to come to terms with the fact that we are having puppies and theres nothing we can do about it...in fact my kids are really excited about it and i think it's taking their mind of the death of our cat at the weekend 
As for my neighbour who owns "daddy dog"...well she finally answered my calls and popped round...she has decided she doesnt have to help me towards vets bills or anything because i am gonna make money apparently ...oh and she wants pick of the litter 
I dont think she realises that i have spent in excess of £300 already in the last few days and this is only the start!!!


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Tell her to get effing stuffed. Why the hell should you give away one of your dogs babies to someone who couldn't be bothered to help you or support with, wether that be emotionally or financially. It's outrageous!!


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Yeah i would tell her where to go, seen as her dog violated yours. There was no agreement made so i can't see she has any rights to a pup  SOME PEOPLE :mad5:


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2010)

Unbelievable person!!!!!
I hope you aren't going to let them have a pup, they are obviously irresponsible dog owners


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

over my dead body would they get a pup!

When it comes time for homing the pups, have you thought about how to make sure they get good homes?

Do you feel confident enough to do homechecks on people, telling people NO, seeing through lies etc? Maybe a local breeder can help you with what to look for?

An alternative to doing it yourself would be to have a rescue involved. The pups wouldnt ever have to go into kennels they can be homed from home, but at least you would know they had properly checked out homes.


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## francesandjon (Jun 3, 2009)

Good luck!

I wouldn't let her have a puppy......


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

No she isnt getting her hands on any of the puppies,i thought she was a friend but she has shown otherwise these last few days...to be honest i wouldnt be surprised if it was her who brought the male round and not her daughter 
She has always gone on about wanting to put her boy up for stud and had even asked me in the past if he could breed with sophie "just to check he's fertile" 
I dont know but the more i think about things the more suspicious i'm becoming...maybe it was just an accident but maybe my suspicians are correct in which case i feel both me and my girl have been violated


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Dan79 said:


> No she isnt getting her hands on any of the puppies,i thought she was a friend but she has shown otherwise these last few days...to be honest i wouldnt be surprised if it was her who brought the male round and not her daughter
> She has always gone on about wanting to put her boy up for stud and had even asked me in the past if he could breed with sophie "just to check he's fertile"
> I dont know but the more i think about things the more suspicious i'm becoming...maybe it was just an accident but maybe my suspicians are correct in which case i feel both me and my girl have been violated


what a horrible woman! No wonder you both feel raped (although i'm sure sophie was more than willing in season  ).

xxx


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

I hope your girl sails through the whole process and it's one you can look back on with good memories in the years to come. It's so horrid to think they might of planned it behind your back  . Keep us all up to date on how your girl is doing


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> what a horrible woman! No wonder you both feel raped (although i'm sure sophie was more than willing in season  ).
> 
> xxx


Haha...Yeah i'm sure sophie was very willing,she is such a flirt at the best of times,


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Better of without her help by the sounds of things. I hope you manage to sort this all out, I am sure you will. You said you were very busy at work, do you think you will be able to take some time of?


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

vizzy24 said:


> Better of without her help by the sounds of things. I hope you manage to sort this all out, I am sure you will. You said you were very busy at work, do you think you will be able to take some time of?


Yes im off this week and am planning on taking a few weeks off when the puppies are born...i work for my brother in law so not a problem really


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

What a cheek your "friend" has. Wouldnt be surprised if she did it on purpose as she clearly thinks shes entitled to a pup. I wouldnt have anything more to do with her!

Whereabouts are you? There may be someone local who would be willing to help out if theres any problems. Bear in mind that shih tzu's can have complications whelping due to the shape of the pups so make sure you have a 24hr vet on standby! Hopefully all will be well but you can never be too prepared!!

Hope all goes well, should be very fluffy pups :lol:


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

Jess2308 said:


> What a cheek your "friend" has. Wouldnt be surprised if she did it on purpose as she clearly thinks shes entitled to a pup. I wouldnt have anything more to do with her!
> 
> Whereabouts are you? There may be someone local who would be willing to help out if theres any problems. Bear in mind that shih tzu's can have complications whelping due to the shape of the pups so make sure you have a 24hr vet on standby! Hopefully all will be well but you can never be too prepared!!
> 
> Hope all goes well, should be very fluffy pups :lol:


Im in Derby...and yes iv just read about the complications and ceasarian births etc...i'm frantically trying to learn as much as possible,lol
As for the neighbour...she will have nothing to do with the puppies,and certainly will not be making any money from them...i just want everything to run smooth and hopefully find the babies some fantastic homes...i dont want money just a guarantee they will be loved and properly cared for 
so if anyone would be interested in giving 1 a loving home...pm me!


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2010)

What breed is dad? 

Please please dont give her a pup. At the end of the day its a selfish thing for her to do and because of that your bitch is going to be at risk. 

Tell her to get ******. To be frank. 

And good luck! :thumbup:


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

Dad is a westie...and no,over my dead body she will get a puppy...it would only be for her financial gain


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2010)

Dan79 said:


> Dad is a westie...and no,over my dead body she will get a puppy...it would only be for her financial gain


Good! Glad to see you have common sense. 
I think your bitch is lucky to have a caring owner like you.
Unless you plan to breed her again in the future (although this wasnt planned) I would get her fixed after the pups have left that way it doesnt happen again.

Dont want the woman next door dumping the westie over the fence and letting them mate again. :scared:

I really do admire you, I would have kicked her head in. Or sued her for vet costs.


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Hi hope it goes well for you and you get great homes for puppies as far away from your neighbour as possible


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Thats a relief for you. Good luck


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

please dont offer the puppies for free  you will get people take them on a whim and not have thought it through at all. when the puppies have all arrived safely ,just work out what everything has cost you as you will have all the weaning,worming process and extra food for mum and then work out a sensible price for the puppies to at least cover your cost ( and time) you really never know what cost lies ahead yet ? oh and tell your NICE neighbour to EFF off !


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Nothing wrong with letting them go for free (i've done it plenty of times) but preferably it should be to people you know well or if not, make sure you interrogate them thoroughly and ask to go and look at their home etc etc. If they arent happy with that then thats an indication that all may not be what it seems with them and best to not let them have a pup. I always think that free is better than say £50 or whatever, then they are _being given_ a dog rather than them _buying_ a dog... 

But, mine have only gone free to family/friends, i would be hesistant to let them go to someone i didnt know..


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Dan79 said:


> Im in Derby...and yes iv just read about the complications and ceasarian births etc...i'm frantically trying to learn as much as possible,lol
> As for the neighbour...she will have nothing to do with the puppies,and certainly will not be making any money from them...i just want everything to run smooth and hopefully find the babies some fantastic homes...i dont want money just a guarantee they will be loved and properly cared for
> so if anyone would be interested in giving 1 a loving home...pm me!


Pming you my number. Live just outside alfreton so if you need a hand let me know.


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

So far i have 2 very good friends that are willing to take 1...i dont mind giving them for free if i know they will be well taken care of,i think the home check idea is a good one tho :thumbup:


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

archiebaby said:


> *please dont offer the puppies for free  you will get people take them on a whim and not have thought it through at all.* when the puppies have all arrived safely ,just work out what everything has cost you as you will have all the weaning,worming process and extra food for mum and then work out a sensible price for the puppies to at least cover your cost ( and time) you really never know what cost lies ahead yet ? oh and tell your NICE neighbour to EFF off !


Nothing wrong with letting them go to homes for free if the proper checks etc are done as normally. However, I do agree re neighbour, I would have punched her lights out.

Dan Is there nothing you can do, i.e. report to the police or something? And I'd get your poor girl spaed after she has recovered, stop the evil cow from dropping daddy over the fence again.

Good luck with it all, and I admire you for sticking by your girl. Are you going to keep one of the pups? And post loads of pics when they are born. I LOVE Westies and Westie Crosses...and JAck Russells...oh stop, I'm going to want one now!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Horse and Hound said:


> Nothing wrong with letting them go to homes for free if the proper checks etc are done as normally. However, I do agree re neighbour, I would have punched her lights out.
> 
> Dan Is there nothing you can do, i.e. report to the police or something? And I'd get your poor girl spaed after she has recovered, stop the evil cow from dropping daddy over the fence again.
> 
> Good luck with it all, and I admire you for sticking by your girl. Are you going to keep one of the pups? And post loads of pics when they are born. I LOVE Westies and Westie Crosses...and JAck Russells...oh stop, I'm going to want one now!


we will have to agree to disagree on this one ( sounds familiar) i do agree however if they are very good friends,family 
but not just giving them away to anyone i know it was probably said in jest but dan did ask anyone here want one


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Dan79 said:


> Im in Derby...and yes iv just read about the complications and ceasarian births etc...i'm frantically trying to learn as much as possible,lol
> As for the neighbour...she will have nothing to do with the puppies,and certainly will not be making any money from them...i just want everything to run smooth and hopefully find the babies some fantastic homes...i dont want money just a guarantee they will be loved and properly cared for
> so if anyone would be interested in giving 1 a loving home...pm me!


now that could be anyone on here


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2010)

Charge but not much. 
Free to good home will attract unwanted attention. 

£50 or something...but remember if you are unsure on someone who comes to view you can always say no. Even more so if you feel they will be used for breeding or not looked after.


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

archiebaby said:


> we will have to agree to disagree on this one ( sounds familiar) i do agree however if they are very good friends,family
> but not just giving them away to anyone i know it was probably said in jest but dan did ask anyone here want one


No to be honest this is obviously a tight community here and most of you are genuine animal lovers...so therefore if 1 of you shown interest and you could all vouch for them then yes i would certainly consider,what better way to find great homes for your puppies than by recomendation???


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Dan make sure you take down Tanya's phone number as she knows all about breeding and has helped loads of members on here :thumbup: i've only been on here a month or two and seen how she helps people . 

Personally i think if people are not willing to pay a least £100 donation towards the cost of the pups rearing, are they willing to pay for all the other costs that may arise.

Interesting mix of pups i can't wait to see some pic's of them as they are born and grow up  Do you think you might keep a pup yourself Dan? 

Also does anyone know average litter size for these breeds of dogs?


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Ah we don't live that far from you either! I'm wanting another puppy but waiting on training this pup before I attempt another one lol.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

What breed is Sophie?
I'll put my bet on... 6 pups

6 is average for a westie litter if I'm not mistaken


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

Pointermum said:


> Dan make sure you take down Tanya's phone number as she knows all about breeding and has helped loads of members on here :thumbup: i've only been on here a month or two and seen how she helps people .
> 
> Personally i think if people are not willing to pay a least £100 donation towards the cost of the pups rearing, are they willing to pay for all the other costs that may arise.
> 
> ...


Yes i've got Tanyas number at the ready,lol....i've heard a lot of people talk about how great she is 
yes i think you could be right about the donation thing...i just dont want the neighbour thinking she has done me a favour because i am selling the puppies anyway...because at the end of the day i will still be out of pocket and my girl will still have been put at risk...she did wrong regardless!

yes it is an interesting mix and i will be posting lots of pic's of puppies and mum,i think i'm getting used to the idea slightly now as i found myself in pets at home earlier eyeing up the puppy section,lol...
oh and just for the record Sophie will most deffinetly be spayed after all this is done and dusted,i feel like shes at risk now,even in her own home


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

NicoleW said:


> What breed is Sophie?
> I'll put my bet on... 6 pups
> 
> 6 is average for a westie litter if I'm not mistaken


Sophie is a shih tzu and i believe their average litter is about 6 aswell so you could be right


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Unless you end up with 12!


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## Dan79 (Feb 20, 2010)

NicoleW said:


> Unless you end up with 12!


:scared: nooo i said i might be getting used to the idea,:lol:


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Dan i would have to agree with charging a certain price for the pups. If you dont want the money yourself to go towards the cost of rearing them, then why not donate it to your chosen rescue?


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## ashsufc1889 (Sep 1, 2010)

Dan,

First of all, Congratulations to you and Sophie...You're going to be a Daddy!!!

I must commend you in your attitude and approach to this situation. You've been poop'd on from a great height here and you could have very easily gone over at the deep end and made a rash decision. You haven't, you've acted sensibly and sought after some brilliant advice from the folk off here.

You're neighbour/friend needs take take a long hard look at them selves in the mirror and question whether they are suitable to look after pets. If this was humans involved she could be going down for a long time...

Anyway, i hope Sophie (and yourself) are holding up ok, and that everything goes brilliantly with the birth (how long left?).

Regards,

Ash


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

I think she has just under a week left. Unless they've come early not heard of an update from Dan for a while.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2010)

NicoleW said:


> I think she has just under a week left. Unless they've come early not heard of an update from Dan for a while.


You haven't been looking have you?  
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/121351-what-stage-does-milk-production-start.html

:001_tt2:


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2010)

Dan79 said:


> Yes i've got Tanyas number at the ready,lol....i've heard a lot of people talk about how great she is
> yes i think you could be right about the donation thing...i just dont want the neighbour thinking she has done me a favour because i am selling the puppies anyway...because at the end of the day i will still be out of pocket and my girl will still have been put at risk...she did wrong regardless!
> 
> yes it is an interesting mix and i will be posting lots of pic's of puppies and mum,i think i'm getting used to the idea slightly now as i found myself in pets at home earlier eyeing up the puppy section,lol...
> oh and just for the record Sophie will most deffinetly be spayed after all this is done and dusted,i feel like shes at risk now,even in her own home


You could always suggest a minimum donation of say £100 for you favorite dog sanctuary!
Hope all goes well by the way


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

rona said:


> You haven't been looking have you?
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/121351-what-stage-does-milk-production-start.html
> 
> :001_tt2:


Not that long then


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

rona said:


> You haven't been looking have you?
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/121351-what-stage-does-milk-production-start.html
> 
> :001_tt2:


Oh you little tinker! Didn't see that one


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Good luck, am sure all will go well. 

Don't know about you but I'M excited, lol.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Good luck, am sure all will go well.
> 
> Don't know about you but I'M excited, lol.


the pups arrived early hours this morning, heres the thread http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/121514-i-think-puppies-their-way-already.html


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