# Training classes.say no to Staffie cross Boxer puppy



## Ninedogs (Sep 15, 2012)

Hi Need some help finding training classes for my sister. She lives in Walsall, West Midlands. She has a 7/8 month old puppy cross Staffie/Boxer. And she wants to be a responsible owner and train/socialize the puppy. She has telephoned a couple of dog training classes and as soon as she mentions that her puppy is a Staffie/Boxer cross, they reply no they do not want a cross that May have pit bull in them. How ridiculous! Even if the puppy was a pit bull it does not mean the dog would be dangerous, as we all know it is the owners who do not take time and effort with training who are the danger. Do any of you know of dog training classes in this area that would not be so PREJUDICED.


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## Spookypigs (Feb 2, 2014)

Cos everyone knows that 'pit bulls' don't need training. 

Staffies are one of the most gentle family friendly dogs there are, so much so that they used to be known as a nanny dog because they are just so good with children. Staffies aren't a banned breed so there shouldn't be any discrimination. 

Anyway, a pit is a cross from any of the bull types. So how can a staffy cross have pit in them? That's like saying my greyhound can't race because he may have a bit of lurcher in him. 

They're thick as well as prejudiced. Hope your friend finds a proper dog training club rather than a Daily Fail reader.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Spookypigs said:


> Cos everyone knows that 'pit bulls' don't need training.
> 
> Staffies are one of the most gentle family friendly dogs there are, so much so that they used to be known as a nanny dog because they are just so good with children. Staffies aren't a banned breed so there shouldn't be any discrimination.
> 
> ...


i think it is pants

but the reason they do this is because it is a clause in their insurance.
actually a pit bull isnt a bull breed cross its purebreed from america.
but its not recognised in the uk hence why the police say "section 1 pit bull type"
sometimes staffie x boxers have been picked up by the police as fitting the description of section 1 pitbull types.

your sister made a mistake, she should have just said staffie.
then you might find a chance of a club that would be clever about it 

also you could try an one to one trainer


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Ninedogs said:


> Hi Need some help finding training classes for my sister. She lives in Walsall, West Midlands. She has a 7/8 month old puppy cross Staffie/Boxer. And she wants to be a responsible owner and train/socialize the puppy. She has telephoned a couple of dog training classes and as soon as she mentions that her puppy is a Staffie/Boxer cross, they reply no they do not want a cross that May have pit bull in them. How ridiculous! Even if the puppy was a pit bull it does not mean the dog would be dangerous, as we all know it is the owners who do not take time and effort with training who are the danger. Do any of you know of dog training classes in this area that would not be so PREJUDICED.


I think you are missing the point, whether or not a dog club, instructor or trainer is or is not prejudiced is sort of irrelevant.

Doglaw - Dangerous dogs (pit bull types) : Section 1 & 4B Dangerous Dogs Act 1991

If they allowed the dog on the premises there may be all sorts of ramifications. I think the Breed not Deed group may be able to help.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

There is a training class near me that only takes small fluffy dogs. 
This is because the man who runs it is unqualified (he got the job because his wife is!) and only has experience of small fluffy dogs. Yes, I am being serious. 
I know another `trainer` who gaily advertises her abilty to retrain aggressive dogs who has bought her qualifications, plus a franchise. A behaviourist friend gets a huge amount of work going round sorting out the mess she leaves. 
So it may well be that the class is run by someone who is not very good - and tbh you wouldn`t want to go there anyway. 
I suggest you search for a qualified instructor (try the APDT site).


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> There is a training class near me that only takes small fluffy dogs.
> This is because the man who runs it is unqualified (he got the job because his wife is!) and only has experience of small fluffy dogs. Yes, I am being serious.
> I know another `trainer` who gaily advertises her abilty to retrain aggressive dogs who has bought her qualifications, plus a franchise. A behaviourist friend gets a huge amount of work going round sorting out the mess she leaves.
> So it may well be that the class is run by someone who is not very good - and tbh you wouldn`t want to go there anyway.
> I suggest you search for a qualified instructor (try the APDT site).


its just as likely to due to insurance,
i know an APDT trainer that does the same due to insurance

your first example of the guy who only accepts small fluffy dogs because he is only experienced in training small fluffy dogs, thats a good thing isnt it?
i would see him as a good guy whom is taking the honest and responsible approach of refusing to train dogs he isnt good enough to train?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Ninedogs said:


> Hi Need some help finding training classes for my sister. She lives in Walsall, West Midlands. She has a 7/8 month old puppy cross Staffie/Boxer. And she wants to be a responsible owner and train/socialize the puppy. She has telephoned a couple of dog training classes and as soon as she mentions that her puppy is a Staffie/Boxer cross, they reply no they do not want a cross that May have pit bull in them. How ridiculous! Even if the puppy was a pit bull it does not mean the dog would be dangerous, as we all know it is the owners who do not take time and effort with training who are the danger. Do any of you know of dog training classes in this area that would not be so PREJUDICED.


Tell your sister to have a look on the Kennel Club website as there are several registered clubs in the West Midlands.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Why not just say it is a boxer cross and leave it at that. Or just a crossbreed and if asked say you know it is half boxer.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Blitz said:


> Why not just say it is a boxer cross and leave it at that. Or just a crossbreed and if asked say you know it is half boxer.


I'd go with the above... unless of course it does look game/buff or apbt type.

have you got a pic of said boxer cross


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

What a [email protected]!

How are people expected to be responsible owners if you can't get your dog to classes?

She should ring up again and say it's a boxer cross, but not mention the other half unless she has to - then she should lie ("_ahem _labrador" *koffing fit*)


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## puppymadness (Aug 20, 2009)

There is one at Aldridge airport on a Sunday morning, we took bell once (lab x gsd) didn't feel it would work for us (I work a lot if Sundays) but there was every type of dog there


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

puppymadness said:


> There is one at Aldridge airport on a Sunday morning, we took bell once (lab x gsd) didn't feel it would work for us (I work a lot if Sundays) but there was every type of dog there


but there could be every type of dog at these clubs the OP's sister rang?
~maybe~ just not the ones banned by their insurance policy, ie, the 4 banned breeds under the DDA?

and there is a dog training club at the airport - cool!


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Just tell them the dog is a mongrel of mixed breeding..... But seriously look elsewhere. Local vets may well even know by reputation and recommendation good trainers. You should give this one a wide berth IMO.

And on the standard of trainers , The owner of several collies, one delivering a vicous attack on my dal, who hid in bushes, then denied all responsibilty , was identified to me because he is well known for this behaviour and the fact he helps run a local training school and wears the schools LOGO on his clothing....:yikes:


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## puppymadness (Aug 20, 2009)

Tails and Trails said:


> but there could be every type of dog at these clubs the OP's sister rang?
> ~maybe~ just not the ones banned by their insurance policy, ie, the 4 banned breeds under the DDA?
> 
> and there is a dog training club at the airport - cool!


It's not a real airport anymore think it was used as one in the war? Now just playing fields and an activity centre.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

smokeybear said:


> I think you are missing the point, whether or not a dog club, instructor or trainer is or is not prejudiced is sort of irrelevant.
> 
> Doglaw - Dangerous dogs (pit bull types) : Section 1 & 4B Dangerous Dogs Act 1991
> 
> If they allowed the dog on the premises there may be all sorts of ramifications. I think the Breed not Deed group may be able to help.


I disagree that the OP is missing the point and I'm very surprised that a long term member who has been exposed to an education can say such a thing.

They are not qualified to say which dogs are type and which dogs are not. Even experts will disagree at times.

I would say that it is highly prejudicial and nonsense. Also they would hold no liability whatsoever if they do accept a dog whom is "type"

New owners should be encouraged not treated like criminals.

If fact show me any case law where a training club or other authority has been penalised for this. There is no criminal offence at all which would cover this.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> but there could be every type of dog at these clubs the OP's sister rang?
> ~maybe~ just not the ones banned by their insurance policy, ie, the 4 banned breeds under the DDA?
> 
> and there is a dog training club at the airport - cool!


If certain breeds are excluded under their insurance policy, Boxers and Staffies aren't two of them, so why refuse to allow them, or a mix of the two in?


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> If certain breeds are excluded under their insurance policy, Boxers and Staffies aren't two of them, so why refuse to allow them, or a mix of the two in?


http://www.petforums.co.uk/1063561174-post3.html


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I still don't get it.

I agree that a Boxer/Staffy Cross could, by some, be described as of the Pit Bull type, but do Trainers exclude dogs on how they look? I take it this particular exclusion was as a result of a 'phone call, so the Trainer had never seen the dog. Did this Trainer work up a picture in his/her mind of how this puppy could actually look and base the decision on that?

Staffies are not a banned breed and neither are Boxers. How then could it negate any Trainer's insurance to allow the dog in?

My personal feeling is that no reputable Trainer worth their salt would say no to taking this puppy into the class.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

northnsouth said:


> Just tell them the dog is a mongrel of mixed breeding..... But seriously look elsewhere. Local vets may well even know by reputation and recommendation good trainers. You should give this one a wide birth IMO.


Yep this ^^^

Just tell them that it is a cross-breed or boxer cross. No need for them to care what breed it is anyway TBH as dogs should be trained to their individual needs and motivations (although knowing breeds can help with having an idea of motivation from what kind of job the breeds were bred for).

Definitely look elsewhere for training classes...


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

They're classed as Terriers aren't they? Staffies haven't got an ounce of pit bull in them! She's been turned away for doing the right thing and wanting to train him too :incazzato:


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> I still don't get it.
> 
> I agree that a Boxer/Staffy Cross could, by some, be described as of the Pit Bull type, but do Trainers exclude dogs on how they look? I take it this particular exclusion was as a result of a 'phone call, so the Trainer had never seen the dog. Did this Trainer work up a picture in his/her mind of how this puppy could actually look and base the decision on that?
> 
> ...


im confused. on the one hand, you say you know that boxer/staffies can be picked up as section 1 pit bull types. but on the other hand you keep saying the separate breed of staffie and separate breed of boxer arent banned dogs. but you just said yourself we werent talking about the separate breeds?

re your other questions, a section 1 dog cannot be reliably assessed until about 7 months old. ###but### if this club does have insurance that disallows banned breeds, then i would imagine they may well feel inclined to not accept crosses of the type which they know can fall into the category of section 1 types? and as it is well known that staffie x lab and staffie x boxer is often one of the pseudonyms for section 1 type, it may well be that they have had plenty of experience of this before, or in an area where these types of dogs are too prevalent, so the mere fact some tells them this over the phone is all the criteria they need. it could well negate their insurance to accept a "banned breed". after all, we all know insurance companies will always look for some get out clause, dont we ?

personally, i would be clever about it.
but then if i were the owner, i would have also been a bit more clever about it too.

im not agreeing with it, im just saying it is easy for people on the internet, whom dont these people or have any first hand knowledge of what is actually going on to jump to the usual derogatory statements and motives.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Why not just say it is a boxer cross and leave it at that. Or just a crossbreed and if asked say you know it is half boxer.


Not so many years ago mixed parentage dogs were calledmongrel/crossbreed, simple! No questions to be asked if that's what you tell people


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2014)

Say its a cross 

Then their will be no issues.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Tails and Trails said:


> its just as likely to due to insurance,
> i know an APDT trainer that does the same due to insurance
> 
> your first example of the guy who only accepts small fluffy dogs because he is only experienced in training small fluffy dogs, thats a good thing isnt it?
> i would see him as a good guy whom is taking the honest and responsible approach of refusing to train dogs he isnt good enough to train?


Well obviously you know my area and the dog club I used to train at far better than me so I will of course bow to your superior knowledge. 
or possibly put you on the Ignore list.....


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> im confused. on the one hand, you say you know that boxer/staffies can be picked up as section 1 pit bull types. but on the other hand you keep saying the separate breed of staffie and separate breed of boxer arent banned dogs. but you just said yourself we werent talking about the separate breeds?
> 
> re your other questions, a section 1 dog cannot be reliably assessed until about 7 months old. ###but### if this club does have insurance that disallows banned breeds, then i would imagine they may well feel inclined to not accept crosses of the type which they know can fall into the category of section 1 types? and as it is well known that staffie x lab and staffie x boxer is often one of the pseudonyms for section 1 type, it may well be that they have had plenty of experience of this before, or in an area where these types of dogs are too prevalent, so the mere fact some tells them this over the phone is all the criteria they need. it could well negate their insurance to accept a "banned breed". after all, we all know insurance companies will always look for some get out clause, dont we ?
> 
> ...


You're not the only one who is confused. What I mean is that a Boxer crossed with a Staffy, could, in some cases, appear to certain people as of the Pit Bull type. That does not make it a Pit Bull

This trainer was asked to take a Staffy/Boxer cross and refused. Neither of these are banned breeds and the Trainer had not actually seen the dog so, on what basis was it refused?

I see you mention Type 1 dogs. How is that relevant here?

I find it fascinating, by the way, that in your opinion, YOU would have been cleverer than both the Trainer and the Owner.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Prowl said:


> Say its a cross
> 
> Then their will be no issues.


It shouldn't be an issue anyway. This dog has nothing in it's Parentage that is a banned breed.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Well obviously you know my area and the dog club I used to train at far better than me so I will of course bow to your superior knowledge.
> or possibly put you on the Ignore list.....


Well, you could take it personally and put me on the ignore list?

Or you could just take a step back for a minute and remember when someone types something on the internet, you cannot see their body language, so just because you imagine that what they type equals a certain attitude, doesnt mean it is so?
After which you could objectively say to yourself that you never actually mentioned you had trained at the same club as this fluffy guy, that the _*#general idea# *_of a dog trainer admitting he has limitations so therefore will not undertake that which he does not feel qualified to do would normally be very much welcomed and encouraged by all of us dog trainers (im guessing you to?) as a responsible approach, and therefore conclude that when I posted what I posted, I only posted from those two points of view, and then say to yourself why on earth would i have any desire to be personal toward you in the manner you are describing, especially considering that i dont know you and have no reason to do so, have liked several of your posts, and that i only actually posted in a polite manner.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> It shouldn't be an issue anyway. This dog has nothing in it's Parentage that is a banned breed.


according to the section 1 of the DDA and the unfortunate procedures of police sections involved in identification when they get their tape measures out, sadly, it could well do.

sad, crap, bullshit, but true


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Sweety said:


> You're not the only one who is confused. What I mean is that a Boxer crossed with a Staffy, could, in some cases, appear to certain people as of the Pit Bull type. That does not make it a Pit Bull
> 
> This trainer was asked to take a Staffy/Boxer cross and refused. Neither of these are banned breeds and the Trainer had not actually seen the dog so, on what basis was it refused?


You have answered you own question. Although neither boxers nor staffies are banned you have stated that a cross between the two could appear to be a pit bull type - which ARE banned.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> You're not the only one who is confused. What I mean is that a Boxer crossed with a Staffy, could, in some cases, appear to certain people as of the Pit Bull type. That does not make it a Pit Bull
> 
> This trainer was asked to take a Staffy/Boxer cross and refused. Neither of these are banned breeds and the Trainer had not actually seen the dog so, on what basis was it refused?
> 
> ...


I never said it makes it a pit bull. I have gone thru this in my posts explaining it quite a bit now. Maybe i havent explained it as well as i thought :thumbdown:

As their is no such recognised breed as pit bull in this country, this is an american recognised breed, this is why i had written, and the law states, "pit bull type". Thats where the certain crossbreeding comes into play.

Section 1, not type 1. Its relevant, as thats the section of the DDA this bit of law refers to.

:laugh: no, clever meant wink wink hush hush, as in do and speak in ways that could get you round the system - you have got the wrong end of the stick!

I am trained in this area of DDA section 1 pit bull type dogs, including identification. It was part of my job in rescue, i was trained at battersea dogs home. Similarly, it is against the law for rescue centre to knowingly take in and rehome section 1 pit bull type dogs. We had the police checking us all the time and tape measuring dogs such as staffie/boxer, staffie/lab, staffie/am bull, staffie x.

i hated it


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Dimwit said:


> You have answered you own question. Although neither boxers nor staffies are banned you have stated that a cross between the two could appear to be a pit bull type - which ARE banned.


I said such a cross could appear to be of the Pit Bull Type to CERTAIN people, usually those with least knowledge.

The Trainer in question hadn't seen the dog. How then could she ajudge it to be of the Pit Bull type?

If I were to ring to book in my Tervueren, would I be refused on the basis that his colour and profuse mane makes him look like a lion?

I really don't understand how you can go to such lengths to defend this Trainer. This is a person with a Crossbreed pup wanting to do everything right by attending training classes.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Dimwit said:


> You have answered you own question. Although neither boxers nor staffies are banned you have stated that a cross between the two could appear to be a pit bull type - which ARE banned.


thats what i was trying, and failing it seems, to say


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> I said such a cross could appear to be of the Pit Bull Type to CERTAIN people, usually those with least knowledge.
> 
> The Trainer in question hadn't seen the dog. How then could she ajudge it to be of the Pit Bull type?
> 
> ...


no, because tervs arent on the banned list.

as i said, for all we know, these clubs may be in area rife with pit bull looking crosses, they may have had bad experiences, they may have had heat from their insurers, so it could have got to the point that of anyone even phones up and mentions they have a breed description which is known to fall into the category of section 1 dogs, then thats all they need to say no.

i never defended, i empathised.
like i said, i would have been a bit clever clever wink wink about it

and i dont know why the owner didnt just say crossbreed or boxer x?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> no, because tervs arent on the banned list.
> 
> as i said, for all we know, these clubs may be in area rife with pit bull looking crosses, they may have had bad experiences, they may have had heat from their insurers, so it could have got to the point that of anyone even phones up and mentions they have a breed description which is known to fall into the category of section 1 dogs, then thats all they need to say no.
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right. Tervuerens aren't on the banned list. NEITHER ARE BOXERS OR STAFFIES.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

sweety said:


> you're absolutely right. Tervuerens aren't on the banned list. Neither are boxers or staffies.


indeed - AND WE HAVE BOTH SAID THE SAME THING
can we stop shouting now


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## Ninedogs (Sep 15, 2012)

Great replies, thank you all, I will advise my sister to a/ ring the ADPT or the Kennel Club, and b/ just to state the dog is a crossbreed Boxer or crossbreed Staffie. I can understand the insurance with the dangerous dog breed act but honestly how on earth are you get help with training your dog no matter what breed your dog is. There are plenty of rottie dogs out there they are also classed as a dangerous dog. In fact my sister's last dog was a lovely Rottweiler who was a soft and very gentle male dog. Just an example!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Dimwit said:


> You have answered you own question. Although neither boxers nor staffies are banned you have stated that a cross between the two could appear to be a pit bull type - which ARE banned.


So, it's not Pit Bulls that are a banned breed but dogs of the Pit Bull type, in some bod's opinion?

Madness.

Should we apply this to humans? If so, everyone who bears a passing resemblance to the Yorkshire Ripper should be dragged out and executed at Dawn tomorrow morning.

I still do not know how this Trainer deemed this dog of the Pit Bull type when she hadn't seen it.

And for the record, I never shout.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Ninedogs said:


> Great replies, thank you all, I will advise my sister to a/ ring the ADPT or the Kennel Club, and b/ just to state the dog is a crossbreed Boxer or crossbreed Staffie. I can understand the insurance with the dangerous dog breed act but honestly how on earth are you get help with training your dog no matter what breed your dog is. There are plenty of rottie dogs out there they are also classed as a dangerous dog. In fact my sister's last dog was a lovely Rottweiler who was a soft and very gentle male dog. Just an example!


I think your whole family is in need of a great deal of education, you are so right. 

Because Rottweilers are NOT classed as a "dangerous dog".

I am not sure where you get your information from but it is no good lambasting others for their alleged ignorance when you display exactly the same!

Dear, dear dear.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> So, it's not Pit Bulls that are a banned breed but dogs of the Pit Bull type, in some bod's opinion?
> 
> Madness.
> 
> ...


Re your first sentence , yes that's exactly what I have been trying to explain to you all along

the rest of your post no argument from me not really what I have been talking about

posts in CAPS on the net means shouting

but don't worry tongue in cheek comment anyway


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Ninedogs said:


> Great replies, thank you all, I will advise my sister to a/ ring the ADPT or the Kennel Club, and b/ just to state the dog is a crossbreed Boxer or crossbreed Staffie. I can understand the insurance with the dangerous dog breed act but honestly how on earth are you get help with training your dog no matter what breed your dog is. There are plenty of rottie dogs out there they are also classed as a dangerous dog. In fact my sister's last dog was a lovely Rottweiler who was a soft and very gentle male dog. Just an example!


Good ideas

but just to say rottweilers are not on the dangerous dogs act banned breeds list


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Tails and Trails said:


> Re your first sentence , yes that's exactly what Ihave been trying go explain to you all along
> 
> the rest of your post no argument from me not really what Ihave been talking about
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for "explaining things" to me.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Thank you so much for "explaining things" to me.


Welcome


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I don't know what all the fuss is about, I was once told by a trainer that they don't take Mals. I didn't look on it as prejudice against my breed but something that was at the trainers discretion. I just found somewhere else that did. I don't think they have to take any dog on if they don't want to - their business, their choice I would think.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Malmum said:


> I don't know what all the fuss is about, I was once told by a trainer that they don't take Mals. I didn't look on it as prejudice against my breed but something that was at the trainers discretion. I just found somewhere else that did. I don't think they have to take any dog on if they don't want to - their business, their choice I would think.


But they should look at the individual dog, not just put a blanket ban on an entire breed.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Why? Their business, their club, them, their clients and their clients dogs to think about.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I suppose as the Owner of a very large Staffy Girl, I've become absolutely fed up with the negative and adverse reactions of some people.

She is the sweetest, gentlest and most obedient dog I've ever known. She has no issues with other dogs whatever and couldn't fight her way out of a wet paper bag, yet some people behave as though she's an unexploded bomb instead of a dog.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I live in Walsall and have a staffie x boxer never had any issues with training clubs there are some I would avoid from past experience re talk of dominance etc... 

We went to benefit dog training g in Stafford who were great and was looking to go to the club at Aldridge airfield and took him up to watch a few times was never any problem he was about 12 weeks at the time. 

My staffie boxer is amazing really lovely temperament and bouncy.. Wonder if we have ever met her bet our dogs would love each other! 

There was also a club over Sutton way too that looked good


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## Deborah Flaherty (Jan 1, 2018)

delca1 said:


> Not so many years ago mixed parentage dogs were calledmongrel/crossbreed, simple! No questions to be asked if that's what you tell people


Hi l got 4 month boxer cross staffy she's beautiful but how do u train them she's very bouncy any help l would be very grateful debbie


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Hi @Debbie flaherty . This is a really old thread, and it seems the OP hawn't been on since.

You might get more relevant replies if you start a new thread. 

:Locktopic


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