# Walking chinchillas



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Can you put a harness on a chinchilla to walk it like you can a rabbit if you get a harness small enough? Or perhaps instead of actually walking it put one on so it can run around the house without escaping and being cattchable? I'm thinking of asking for a chinchilla as I'm not allowed another dog.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

NO!!!!
you must NEVER EVER EVER put a harness on a chinchilla, they are much to fragile, they have floating ribs and you could cause extensive damage putting a harness on them
nor can you use a giant exercise ball for them either

chinchillas however DO need daily out of cage time and should be allowed free run of a secure room for around an hour a day

chinchillas are not a dog substitute, they are not cuddly animals, if you have problems with your rabbits not being cuddly then you will be greatly dissapointed by chins, they are less human oriantated then rabbits, they should also be kept in pairs or more as they are extreamly social


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## jmdebb (Apr 5, 2010)

please dont ever put a harness on a chin and never take them outside.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Okay fair do's. I have actually found a couple of vids on youtube of chins wearing them soft jacket harnesses but they look a bit wigged out. I have had them before so I know what their like, just wondered if anything had been developed exercise wise since I had them. Might get one though, I'm hoping to be able to add another shed onto mine to double the space then I'd have room for a nice cage for them and they could be let out to run loose whilst I'm feeding the others. I also want some harvest mice for either my room or my (supposed) new shed, but I'm having a hell of a job to locate any. I'll see, I'd be after 2 baby girl chins when I do want some pref not from [email protected] as my last one from there was a bit unhandleable, and wouldn't come to me even though I had her 5 years. Not sure yet, keeping my mind open and I obviously need the shed first anyway.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

just because some idiots on youtube do things doesnt mean its right, i mean look how many vids of betta fish fighting and syrian hamsters iving together and even fighting there are

also you can NOT keep chins in a shed


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

That's awful everyone knows hamsters should live alone:mad2:

But I'm afraid I don't agree with not keeping them in a shed, my last 2 were kept there and they completely fine, much more space than they'd have in the house, which they wouldn't be allowed in anyway.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

chinchillas need to be kept at a stable temperature my understanding is this is between 18 and 24 degrees. Any hotter or colder can be life threatening. 

Sheds have a very low thermal mass meaning they do not retain heat and they gain heat from the sun extremely quickly. 

A shed of timber construction and even a single skin block shed would be insufficient and extremely expensive to heat an cool adequately. 

If you haven't got the space for them inside then I would say dont bother. 

"What does the Animal Welfare Act do?

It makes owners and keepers responsible for ensuring that the welfare needs of their animals are met.

These include the need:

For a suitable environment (place to live)
For a suitable diet
To exhibit normal behaviour patterns
To be housed with, or apart from, other animals (if applicable)
To be protected from pain, injury, suffering and disease"

you would fail on "environment"

All pets need noise, constant interaction and entertainment to become friendly thats why so many people keep house rabbits these days, you wont get friendly chinchillas by putting them outside.


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## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Not to be rude but i remember you were the girl with the lone rat as you weren't allowed anymore pets but now you're getting harvest mice and chinchillas? Why don't you get some more ratties instead? I agree that chinchillas shouldn't live in the shed either as our weather is far to cold for them to live outside even in a shed. I keep my chipmunks in an outdoor aviary and they sleep in the shed and i had to install heating as it was freezing in there and they come from Canada not a hot country so i don't think it would be wise


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> That's awful everyone knows hamsters should live alone:mad2:
> 
> But I'm afraid I don't agree with not keeping them in a shed, my last 2 were kept there and they completely fine, much more space than they'd have in the house, which they wouldn't be allowed in anyway.


If you aren't allowed to keep them in the house then you shouldn't have any.
Chins NEED to be in a controlled environment.


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

To be fair, you can keep chinchillas in a shed, providing that your husbandry skills are top notch. They need to be temperature controlled, which unless you have tons of money and are home the majority of the time to keep regular checks on the temperate regulation can be very difficult to do.

Chinchillas are prefered as house pets, for this reason. In addition most household pets are better accustomed to human contact. There are regular noises in the house and most people will provide them with some form of interaction when just walking past the cage, which is more frequent than a cage kept in a shed.

Personally I would not keep a chinchilla in a shed for these reasons.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

My shed was made to be suitable for chinchillas (temp wise etc) from my last 2, and for my other pets in there. But I'm not getting any now in anycase, it would be daft to get them when what I really want is another dog. I know I'm not allowed one of those either, but I'll just have to deal with it. I am still intent on getting some more harvest mice though, but they'll be going in my room like my last one.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

it is extreamly expensive and dificult to make a shed suitable for a chin, it needs to be double insulated, and FULLY climate controlled, and dehumidified
which can easily cost hundreds of pounds

i very much doubt your shed is suitable, sorry but it is true
especially backed up by the fact your last 2 only lived till 5

emzy your close, its no hotter then 22C MAX, temp should be kept between 18 -21, any hotter and they can just drop dead
there also needs to be no moisture in the air (very hard with sheds) else they willl get fur fungus

im very glad you have decided not to get chinchillas, and if its true you have a lone rat you should be looking at getting him a friend not more harvest mice


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

I was extremely unlucky with my last 2, one lived to 5 1/2, and aftwards I bought another one who only reached 13 months. My first chin had some sort of fit and was never the same after, and my second developed 3 big lumps under his mouth, and I had him put down as he was in so much pain. 

I do want some harvest mice and fully intend on getting some when I can find some. As to my rat, I have a rat book that says their ok on their own as long as they get plenty of human interaction, but lets not go down that path again..


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## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm not going down that path but you shouldn't listen to everything you read. I know who i'd listen to between a book and rat experienced owners:frown2:


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

rats are not ok on their own, you know that full well.
just because a book says it does not make it true, i could get a book published stating pink unicorns with purple wings are real and live in scotland, only an idiot would believe it....


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> I was extremely unlucky with my last 2, one lived to 5 1/2, and aftwards I bought another one who only reached 13 months. My first chin had some sort of fit and was never the same after, and my second developed 3 big lumps under his mouth, and I had him put down as he was in so much pain.
> 
> I do want some harvest mice and fully intend on getting some when I can find some. *As to my rat, I have a rat book that says their ok on their own as long as they get plenty of human interaction, but lets not go down that path again..*


Oh that's ok then, I will just ignore my years and years of experience then because you have found ONE book that gives you the answer you want shall I?
I'm sorry but I WILL go down this road again because you are mentally harming your poor rat, which many, many people on this very forum (with more experience than you could dream of) have tried to explain to you :frown2:

RATS NEED COMPANY THEY ARE SOCIAL CREATURES, that is why you will NEVER find a lone rat in the wild they live in groups called a mischief.

Do you want me to link to your old thread so you can re-read the replies you received last time?

You do know that you are breaking two of the 5 freedom acts right?

The five welfare needs

This means pet owners are now legally obliged to care for their pet properly - which most owners already do - by providing these five basic needs:

somewhere suitable to live

a proper diet, including fresh water

*the ability to express normal behaviour*

*for any need to be housed with, or apart from, other animals*

protection from, and treatment of, illness and injury.


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

colliewobble said:


> I was extremely unlucky with my last 2, one lived to 5 1/2, and aftwards I bought another one who only reached 13 months. My first chin had some sort of fit and was never the same after, and my second developed 3 big lumps under his mouth, and I had him put down as he was in so much pain.
> 
> I do want some harvest mice and fully intend on getting some when I can find some. As to my rat, I have a rat book that says their ok on their own as long as they get plenty of human interaction, but lets not go down that path again..


I also have a book that says it's ok to keep hamsters in groups... You can't rely on one book to be correct, you need to do further reading and work from which bits match up and are supported by other sources.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Oh God not this old chestnut again!

So what good are pet care books if they give you the wrong information then? That is why there are books available on pets, for people to get information out of them about said pet. I suppose that means that when it tells me to feed her rat food that is wrong as well, I should be feeding her something else, or that they can't be housed on shavings that's wrong also? I have never read any book that says you can keep syrian hamsters together, so I would presume that your book is refering to dwarfs. Anyway, I asked whether chins can be walked, found they cant and have decided that now I'm not getting any. As I said I DO NOT want to go this route again, nor do I want my old thread digging back up as it caused enough problems last time.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Oh God not this old chestnut again!
> 
> So what good are pet care books if they give you the wrong information then? That is why there are books available on pets, for people to get information out of them about said pet. I suppose that means that when it tells me to feed her rat food that is wrong as well, I should be feeding her something else, or that they can't be housed on shavings that's wrong also? I have never read any book that says you can keep syrian hamsters together, so I would presume that your book is refering to dwarfs. Anyway, I asked whether chins can be walked, found they cant and have decided that now I'm not getting any. As I said I DO NOT want to go this route again, nor do I want my old thread digging back up as it caused enough problems last time.


It caused problems because of your attitude :mad2:
And you answered your own question there, pet care books are useless. When deciding on ANY pet proper research should be done, and reading ONE pet care book does not constitute as proper research.....................


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

colliewobble said:


> Oh God not this old chestnut again!
> 
> So what good are pet care books if they give you the wrong information then? That is why there are books available on pets, for people to get information out of them about said pet. *I suppose that means that when it tells me to feed her rat food that is wrong as well, I should be feeding her something else*, or that they can't be housed on shavings that's wrong also? I have never read any book that says you can keep syrian hamsters together, so I would presume that your book is refering to dwarfs. Anyway, I asked whether chins can be walked, found they cant and have decided that now I'm not getting any. As I said I DO NOT want to go this route again, nor do I want my old thread digging back up as it caused enough problems last time.


actually yes, most rat foods are rubbish
Shunamite Rats

i suggest you dont get any other pet at all untill you learn to provide for the pets you currently have, i feel so sorry for your poor poor poor rat, they NEED rat friends, you want more pets, get another rat, why is that so hard :mad2:


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Okay - I can provide for my other pets very well actually. I paid £130 to courier a rabbit across the country, then paid another £150 to courier another one so she'd have company. My dogs have each other also, and I bought 3 gerbils so they'd have each other as well. The only ones I keep singly are my 2 hamsters as they're totally different breeds. All of these I've been allowed, but if you reember my old thread (which you obviously do), I wasn't allowed another rat. I did try to hint to my Mum that Tia might like some friends but she didn't take the hint. And she might not like other rats now, she's used to having a big cage all to herself, what if I did persuade my parents to let me get more, but she wouldn't take to them? She might go mental at having more just dumped in her cage. I havnt the space for any more cages in my shed, that's why my harvest mice are going in my room. Harvest mice don't make a noise like rats would though so that's not an option. Personally I wouldn't mind another rat, hell I wouldn't mind another 2 or 3 (don't know if my cage is big enough for 4 though, but I suppose there's always eBay for a bigger cage).I might try ask my Mum again, but the chinchillas didn't go down well. It's not my house, otherwise I'd have my 3rd dog that I so desperately want. But it's not so I have to abide by the rules, if they say no there's not much I can do (unless I get them on the QT and put them straight in the shed which only I go in and have the key to!).


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Okay - I can provide for my other pets very well actually. I paid £130 to courier a rabbit across the country, then paid another £150 to courier another one so she'd have company. My dogs have each other also, and I bought 3 gerbils so they'd have each other as well. The only ones I keep singly are my 2 hamsters as they're totally different breeds. All of these I've been allowed, but if you reember my old thread (which you obviously do), I wasn't allowed another rat. I did try to hint to my Mum that Tia might like some friends but she didn't take the hint. And she might not like other rats now, she's used to having a big cage all to herself, what if I did persuade my parents to let me get more, but she wouldn't take to them? She might go mental at having more just dumped in her cage. I havnt the space for any more cages in my shed, that's why my harvest mice are going in my room. Harvest mice don't make a noise like rats would though so that's not an option. Personally I wouldn't mind another rat, hell I wouldn't mind another 2 or 3 (don't know if my cage is big enough for 4 though, but I suppose there's always eBay for a bigger cage).I might try ask my Mum again, but the chinchillas didn't go down well. It's not my house, otherwise I'd have my 3rd dog that I so desperately want. But it's not so I have to abide by the rules, if they say no there's not much I can do (unless I get them on the QT and put them straight in the shed which only I go in and have the key to!).


I can pretty much guarantee your rat will LOVE company (as many of us tried to explain in your other thread), yes she would go mental if you just "dumped" more rats into her cage but then you should never bond this way anyway. If your treasured book is any good it should also tell you this 

If you are allowed harvest mice then scrap that idea and explain to your parents that you would prefer to get so your poor rat a friend, if they are in the shed noise won't be a problem.

And yes I remember your other thread very well, it was your statement that you had no wish to get another rat (which was repeated several times throughout the thread) was the reason people got so riled up in the first place 

Forget about a third dog and any other pets that you "want" for the time being, and concentrate on giving your current rat everything that she *needs*.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> I can pretty much guarantee your rat will LOVE company (as many of us tried to explain in your other thread), yes she would go mental if you just "dumped" more rats into her cage but then you should never bond this way anyway. If your treasured book is any good it should also tell you this
> 
> If you are allowed harvest mice then scrap that idea and explain to your parents that you would prefer to get so your poor rat a friend, if they are in the shed noise won't be a problem.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I've no chice but to forget a third dog , I'm not allowed one end of

They may agree to harvest mice, but there's an awful lot of difference between a rat and a mouse small enough to sit on your little finger.

And IF I managed to get some, if I can't put them straight in the cage, where would they go? Like I said there's no room for a big cage in the shed, at most I could temporarily use my spare cage wich is hamster cage 2ft long, and that's pushing it. So if Tia wouldn't take to them they'd be stuck in a 2ft cage.

Finally my rat is very friendly with me, comes to me and stays with me, what if she changes with more rats around her?shes a lovely friendly little rat I don't want to lose that it for her to change.


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Unfortunately I've no chice but to forget a third dog , I'm not allowed one end of
> 
> They may agree to harvest mice, but there's an awful lot of difference between a rat and a mouse small enough to sit on your little finger.
> 
> ...


Firstly, no difference because they won't take up any more room than you have now once they are bonded, with mice you will need another cage.
The hamster cage will be fine for bonding the rats before you neutralise the cage that they will stay in.

She *will* accept others so long as you bond them correctly.

Finally her personality will not change when she has friends, she will still be a loving friendly rat, the only difference is she will be happy but tbh your needs shouldn't even come into it. It is her needs that are important here but I have been through this with you in your other thread.
The fact that she is kept in a shed means having a friend is much, much more important due to the amount of hours she will be left on her own 

But then you knew rats needed company when you lied to the pet shop about having other rats at home. If you didn't lie you wouldn't have been in this situation :frown2:


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## Martha39 (Mar 15, 2012)

please don't ever put a harness on a chin and never take them outside.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

colliewobble said:


> *Unfortunately I've no chice but to forget a third dog , I'm not allowed one end of*
> 
> They may agree to harvest mice, but there's an awful lot of difference between a rat and a mouse small enough to sit on your little finger.
> 
> ...


sorry but with your attitude GOOD, i actually dont blame your parrents 

the 2ft cage will be perfect for bonding, you put her and the new rat in that, thoroughly scrub the big cage and clean it making in neutral, then when the rat finkles are getting along fine, you put them both in the big cage, spare cage goes back where you got it from
guess what
NO MORE SPACE NEEDED
why on earth would being happy change her personality, she will still be the same loving rat, she will just be happy for once in her life

where as harvest mice, new cage, new set up, *more space needed*, and your poor neglected rat remains miserable, and no i dont care what you say, keeping a rat on its own is neglect and abuse, they are social animals and NEED friends

as iv said to you before, on many an occasion, stop thinking about your own selfish wants and put the actual needs of your pets first, and if you dont, then you shouldnt get any more, ever. full stop.


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## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

I agree with everyone else. Concentrate on the pets you have and not on your next one. I'd love a whole load of other pets but if i got more it would be less time with my current ones so i won't get anymore. The day i get anymore is when im completely satisfied all my current pets have everything they *need*. If you type on Google 'can rets be kept alone' It just fills up with pages saying 'Why they *shouldn't* live alone and why they *should* live in pairs or groups. You can play with a rat 23 hours out of the day but you're simply not the same as another rat


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

The reason I only bought one rat was because I got her on the quiet. One I was lucky to get away with, but 2 would have been pushing it and I'd have most likely been in awful trouble. 

When I asked if she'd change I meant will she ignore me if she had other rats? She comes to me atm, if I had others would she still do that, or would it not bother her anymore? Yes her needs are important, but I also believe that a friendly pet is just as important. That is why people keep pets, for company and fun, one that hides away all the time isnt really enjoyable. So if ive gotten a perfectly super friendly rat, I think it's a pretty understandable thought to want her to stay like that, and wonder if suddenly adding more will change her. After all if someone bought another dog into a one dog house they would question whether their pet would alter or not.

I wouldn't be looking at getting just one more anyway now the idea has grown on me, I'm thinking of another 2 or 3 if I get more, and possibly a new bigger cage as I don't think 4 would be very happy in a furet plus. But it still depends on what my parents say. Like I said the chinchillas went down like a lead balloon, and there's an enormous difference between rats and harvest mice. I'll try asking my Mum again when she comes home later but if she adamantly says no, just like the other dog, there really isn't anything I can do.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Also how do I get this thread changed cos it started out about walking chinchillas and seems to have gone off topic


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> The reason I only bought one rat was because I got her on the quiet. One I was lucky to get away with, but 2 would have been pushing it and I'd have most likely been in awful trouble.
> 
> When I asked if she'd change I meant will she ignore me if she had other rats? She comes to me atm, if I had others would she still do that, or would it not bother her anymore? Yes her needs are important, but I also believe that a friendly pet is just as important. That is why people keep pets, for company and fun, one that hides away all the time isnt really enjoyable. So if ive gotten a perfectly super friendly rat, I think it's a pretty understandable thought to want her to stay like that, and wonder if suddenly adding more will change her. After all if someone bought another dog into a one dog house they would question whether their pet would alter or not.
> 
> I wouldn't be looking at getting just one more anyway now the idea has grown on me, I'm thinking of another 2 or 3 if I get more, and possibly a new bigger cage as I don't think 4 would be very happy in a furet plus. But it still depends on what my parents say. Like I said the chinchillas went down like a lead balloon, and there's an enormous difference between rats and harvest mice. I'll try asking my Mum again when she comes home later but if she adamantly says no, just like the other dog, there really isn't anything I can do.


AS I've said before, if you had been honest with everyone you wouldn't have been in this situation :wink:
And yet again no she won't change, she will still come to the door of the cage. But yet again that you can not compare adding another dog to the household to giving your poor rat company, rats and dogs are a completely different species with different wants and needs.

Your rat is the important one here, she NEEDS company so if she decideds she would like to spend her time with her rat friends rather than you, then so be it, that is not a good enough excuse to cause her mental torture 
There is plenty you can do if your mum says no (which tbh I wouldn't blame her if she did) but you won't want to hear that because it doesn't fit your needs 

Just a quick note for future reference, whilst you are living with your parents don't try to sneak any more pets into their house. I have to say if you were my child and you did that to me you would have been frog marched straight back to the shop to explain what you had done and you wouldn't have been allowed to keep said pet......


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## xkimxo (Jan 4, 2010)

Thats honestly all I can add to this


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

colliewobble said:


> Oh God not this old chestnut again!
> 
> So what good are pet care books if they give you the wrong information then? That is why there are books available on pets, for people to get information out of them about said pet. I suppose that means that when it tells me to feed her rat food that is wrong as well, I should be feeding her something else, or that they can't be housed on shavings that's wrong also? I have never read any book that says you can keep syrian hamsters together, so I would presume that your book is refering to dwarfs. Anyway, I asked whether chins can be walked, found they cant and have decided that now I'm not getting any. As I said I DO NOT want to go this route again, nor do I want my old thread digging back up as it caused enough problems last time.


I didn't say that pet books are no good, I just said that you need to read more than one source to ensure that you are providing the correct care. This book was specific to syrian hamsters so yes it was saying that syrians cope well in groups. Funnily enough the other books said a massive NO!!!!

Yes you are right that this has gone off topic now, so in answer to your question I would strongly advise against walking a chinchilla on a lead. As their fur is so dense it hides the fact that their body is comparitively very small, how could you ensure that the lead is secure enough that they will not just climb right out of it? Chinchillas are also incredibly fast creatures so if they shot off there would be a risk of strangulation. In my opinion a lead is only suitable for animals that are easily trainable. A chinchilla is not as sociable to human contact so this level of training would be difficult.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Look what's done is done so there's no point telling me to take her back to the shop, I don't think they'd take her back six months on. And i certainly dont want to send her back anywhere in any case. I've already said I wouldnt mind more, but equally it is up to my parents if I can or not. Short of outright disregarding them I don't know what more I can do if they say no more, it's their house not mine.

And I mentioned dogs because they also live in packs in the wild, not alone but people don't bat an eyelid if you only have one dog.


Just as an aside though, Tia doesn't smell. Would more in the cage make the shed smell? Cos I don't want flies in the shed with my rabbits and others, and last year I had male mice and, without meaning to offend anyone, they stank something awful! It was horrendous, people where complaining and absoluteTly nothing I did made it go away. So I certainly don't want that again.


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## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Your rat would probably get friendlier as she had some company and then you'd have others who would like to come and play aswell. Rats live in groups in the wild and its unfair to keep them alone. Dogs are different as dogs can meet up with other dogs to play. I have 2 but they both go out to play and socialise with other dogs, you can't really do that with a rat. Male mice would have made a terrible smell as they cent mark so with regular cleaning i don't see why it would make any difference.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

I want I want I want I want.

What a horrid, spoiled person you are.


What happened to your poor mice? Did you get rid of them because you couldn't keep them clean?


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Look what's done is done so there's no point telling me to take her back to the shop, I don't think they'd take her back six months on. And i certainly dont want to send her back anywhere in any case. I've already said I wouldnt mind more, but equally it is up to my parents if I can or not. Short of outright disregarding them I don't know what more I can do if they say no more, it's their house not mine.
> 
> And I mentioned dogs because they also live in packs in the wild, not alone but people don't bat an eyelid if you only have one dog.
> 
> Just as an aside though, Tia doesn't smell. Would more in the cage make the shed smell? Cos I don't want flies in the shed with my rabbits and others, and last year I had male mice and, without meaning to offend anyone, they stank something awful! It was horrendous, people where complaining and absoluteTly nothing I did made it go away. So I certainly don't want that again.


I suggest you re-read my post, I didn't say to take her back now 
You really do pick the little bits of peoples post that you can get offended over don't you rather than reading the whole thing .
Funny that considering you were the one to accuse me of taking things out of context in another thread 

And yet again DOGS AREN'T RATS, you can take your dogs to socialise with other dogs and dogs have been domesticated far, far longer than rats so cope much better because they look up to their humans.

And no one or 2 more rats won't smell anymore so long as you have a good cleaning routine, but then I also went through all that in your other thread


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

I did try every which way to keep the smell down. I tried all the different beddings, changed their food, used only plastic or disposable card toys, gave them another cage, tried air purifiers, cleaned them out often then tried not as often, and none of it worked. You name it I tried it, but it just wouldn't get rid of it and in the end I started to get worried about the health of my other animals breathing in such a strong smell all the time. So what I'm asking is one rat doesn't make the shed smell, but if I add more will it start to?

As to whoever it was saying I'm selfish and horrible, why shouldnt I decide I want more pets if I look after them? All my pets are happy, healthy and very well cared for, better than some people are. So if I like them what's wrong with wanting others? Why is it selfish? Looking at some members signatures many have lots more than me,are they selfish as well?


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## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Yeah males are generally just quite smelly. I have 5 males and they are stinky but i've managed to keep it down more now after ages! But no more rats won't make a big smell just in general male mice are like mini skunks. I have 21 pets but if i got anymore i'd be selfish too as i wouldn't get to spend as much time with my others so i'm extremely greatful for what i've got and in the future i could possibly have more. My mum wasn't really an animal person but she loves all my furries now. Your little rat would benifit greatly from having some rattie companions and it helps them develop more too. I have my fingers crossed your mum agrees to let you have atleast another rat to keep her company


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> As to whoever it was saying I'm selfish and horrible, why shouldnt I decide I want more pets if I look after them? All my pets are happy, healthy and very well cared for, better than some people are. So if I like them what's wrong with wanting others? Why is it selfish? Looking at some members signatures many have lots more than me,are they selfish as well?


But that isn't true is it?
Otherwise this conversation wouldn't be happening 

And if you are referring to people like me, I suggest you take another look, ALL my animals have EVERYTHING they need and that INCLUDES friends if they are a social species :cursing:
And as I said in your other thread I would LOVE a dog again one day but at the moment I can't offer everything they will need so guess what I [email protected] HAVE A DOG.
If I was to get a dog regardless just because I wanted one, that would be selfish.

And please stop bringing up the excuse of "Well my pets are better looked after than some peoples out there" because that just doesn't wash. BYB's probably take better care of their animals than puppy mills but that doesn't make them any better  (and before you choose to get offended over that I was using a analogy that you might understand, I was NOT comparing you with either..)


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> There is plenty you can do if your mum says no (which tbh I wouldn't blame her if she did) but you won't want to hear that because it doesn't fit your needs
> 
> Just a quick note for future reference, whilst you are living with your parents don't try to sneak any more pets into their house. I have to say if you were my child and you did that to me you would have been frog marched straight back to the shop to explain what you had done and you wouldn't have been allowed to keep said pet......


I don't just read bits of peoples quotes, but this sounds to me like your suggesting something I wont like such as taking her back to the shop. If that's not what you meant then fair enough, it just sounds that way to me.

@Peter thank you for actually giving me some info on if more rats would smell or not, I asked this as not smelling bad could be a big plus point in being allowed more or not, and most just carried on with the verbals rather than giving me an answer that may help.

Yes my animals are very well looked after, I admit I may have slipped up a bit on the rat, but I've never had one before, the only person I knew with one had only one with no problems. It was hard enough to persuade my Mum to let me have one in the first place, as she'd always been frightened of them and disliked them, so going easy with one seemed like a much better idea than bringing loads home at once. Also Tia's sisters were black and brown like wild rats, and sorry if this offends anyone - I don't mean to, no way would my mum who was not at all keen on the idea of a rat have let me have some that looked like wild ones, and to be honest I was a bit unsure of a black or brown rat as well, to me they just look to much like wild ones. Tia was delibraletly chosen by me as she is white and grey to look as far from the stereotypical 'ugh it's a rat' thought as possible for someone not easy with the thought of them.

Finally, why are people still having a go, I've said I want some more rats, that I'd get a bigger cage if neccessery, and I'll try and persuade my parents to agree. I just cant guarentee they will, which is out of my hands if so. I was going to ask my Mum this afternoon but she's come home unwell and told me not to ask her til she feels better.


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> I don't just read bits of peoples quotes, but this sounds to me like your suggesting something I wont like such as taking her back to the shop. If that's not what you meant then fair enough, it just sounds that way to me.
> 
> @Peter thank you for actually giving me some info on if more rats would smell or not, I asked this as not smelling bad could be a big plus point in being allowed more or not, and most just carried on with the verbals rather than giving me an answer that may help.
> 
> ...


No I didn't mean to take the rat back to the shop...
Your not going to like this but quite frankly I don't care, if your parents won't allow you another rat for company then you need to look for a home that can offer her EVERYTHING that she NEEDS.

Secondly



> And no one or 2 more rats won't smell anymore so long as you have a good cleaning routine, but then I also went through all that in your other thread


Yet again proving my point that you take out what you want from a post rather than reading it 

And finally I for one get cross because your posts continue to show that you care more for your wants and needs than your pets.
You are living in your parents house so if they say your not allowed something, then guess what? You shouldn't get it. You also decided to listen to ONE book and a couple of your friends over people that have more years experience than you will ever dream of :cursing:

This isn't about what sort of food to feed an animal, or how much free range time, or what sort of toys they should have, this is about her welfare, this is all about her mental well being.
A lone rat suffers terribly either through different behaviours or silently that is FACT which you have been told over and over again by different people, so it gets a bit tiresome when that is just ignored because of the owners wants :cursing:


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## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

There is a lot of good information you can get online/members from here about how little Tia will benifit from having some cage mates that could help persaude your mum so hopefully she agrees when she's feeling a little better


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

No I don't like the first suggestion, and it won't happen. I'm not giving my rat to anyone as I love her - why should I give her away? There's enough animals needing homes as it is without adding another one that has a perfectly good home!

Secondly I appologize I missed your comments on rat smells. I genuinely didn't see it - im on my iPhone which makes it hard not miss the odd sentance or 2. 

Thirdly I do want more, I don't know if I'm allowed them. That is not the same thing.


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## Nancy23 (Feb 7, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Can you put a harness on a chinchilla to walk it like you can a rabbit if you get a harness small enough? Or perhaps instead of actually walking it put one on so it can run around the house without escaping and being cattchable? I'm thinking of asking for a chinchilla as I'm not allowed another dog.


OMG I dont think ive ever herd anything so funny  no offence


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Right you ignored it when another member mentioned it, so here is a reminder.

By law under the Animal Welfare Act, you have 5 duties that you *HAVE* to provide. One of them is company or keep them apart dependant on the animal.

You are not providing that duty of care.

Here is the RSPCA's own advice on Rats and the need for company - Company - Rats - Pet rodents

You now have 3 choices:


Get another rat (if your parents allow it).
Rehome your current Rat (via a rescue).
Or 3 just leave your sole rat alone, not carrying out your duties under law. However you will could then face a maximum fine of £20,000, upto 51 weeks in prison and a lifetime ban from owning animals.


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> *No I don't like the first suggestion, and it won't happen. I'm not giving my rat to anyone as I love her - why should I give her away? There's enough animals needing homes as it is without adding another one that has a perfectly good home!
> *
> Secondly I appologize I missed your comments on rat smells. I genuinely didn't see it - im on my iPhone which makes it hard not miss the odd sentance or 2.
> 
> Thirdly I do want more, I don't know if I'm allowed them. That is not the same thing.


And there we have the reason why people are responding the way they are, you care about your wants, more than her needs.
If you loved like you say you do, you would do everything you can to give her everything that she needs and if you are unable to offer everything she needs you would look for alternative arrangements. Seriously why is this so hard for you to grasp????


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## Crittery (May 2, 2011)

I've been reading through this thread and there has been some good advice given. Just to add another voice to the fray,

If you can get friends for her (and as soon as, before any mental issues start kicking in - which incidently WON'T make her the fun, friendly girl you want anyway) then that is preferrable to rehoming so good luck with convincing your parents.

There is an excellent knowledge base on her and I'm sure if you want some good articles/references on why rats MUST have company we can provide them. This has already been posted but I'll add again Fancy Rats | Information | Why Rats Need Company to start you off.



colliewobble said:


> as I love her - why should I give her away?


If you cannot get her company - then you are failing to meet an essential need. You are condemning her to a lonely, unhappy existence where she may develop serious mental issues and WILL have a lifespan that is drastically reduced, perhaps even halved. Lonely rats don't make good pets and she may well withdraw, get seriously depressed and not want interaction with you. If you love her, you won't want that to happen.



colliewobble said:


> that has a perfectly good home!


Again, if you aren't meeting an essential need - then that makes you a very bad home for her. Loving something and having responsibility means wanting it to have the best home and life possible, even if it isn't with you.

Please do have a read through the various articles on why rats MUST have company and if you need help compiling or more resources just ask. The main thing to concentrate on now is convincing your parents.

Just please accept that whilst you may not have control over your parent's decision you DO have control over your girl's fate, and whether she will be happy and longlived, or neurotic and short-lived. And while you are at it, maybe point your friend with the lone rat at the responses you've been getting as well! hmy:


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

I really think the RSPCA have better things to do than chase after someone who's looking after a rat extremely well bar it living alone. And a lifetime ban on animals? I've read reports in the paper where people abusing animals havent been given that! A man who kicked his dog and punched it got only a 5 year ban on keeping dogs, so I'm extremely doubtful that anything would be done to a happily well kept rat. Also if I hadn't come on here and said anything no one would know she was alone - there's probably loads around the country kept alone but they're owners aren't on forums like this so you never hear about them.

I am TRYING to sort it out, but it's not all up to me, and even if it was I cant wave a magic wand and make more rats appear overnight!


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> *I really think the RSPCA have better things to do than chase after someone who's looking after a rat extremely well bar it living alone. And a lifetime ban on animals? I've read reports in the paper where people abusing animals havent been given that! A man who kicked his dog and punched it got only a 5 year ban on keeping dogs, so I'm extremely doubtful that anything would be done to a happily well kept rat. Also if I hadn't come on here and said anything no one would know she was alone - there's probably loads around the country kept alone but they're owners aren't on forums like this so you never hear about them.*
> 
> I am TRYING to sort it out, but it's not all up to me, and even if it was I cant wave a magic wand and make more rats appear overnight!


Oh ffs that shouldn't even come in to.
Why oh why do you keep bring up that others are kept worse, that doesn't even matter right now YOUR GIRL IS WHAT MATTERS not that there are others out there that are kept in worse conditions :cursing:

Rather than finding excuses that justify keeping alone girl, take on board all the advice you have been given and work towards getting your girl a friend either with you or with someone that can give her a friend.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> I really think the RSPCA have better things to do than chase after someone who's looking after a rat extremely well bar it living alone. And a lifetime ban on animals? I've read reports in the paper where people abusing animals havent been given that! A man who kicked his dog and punched it got only a 5 year ban on keeping dogs, so I'm extremely doubtful that anything would be done to a happily well kept rat. Also if I hadn't come on here and said anything no one would know she was alone - there's probably loads around the country kept alone but they're owners aren't on forums like this so you never hear about them.
> 
> I am TRYING to sort it out, but it's not all up to me, and even if it was I cant wave a magic wand and make more rats appear overnight!


Just remember the RSPCA are not the law enforcers, nor the only agency that can bring legal action. For all you know someone who works with such an agency may of read this thread.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Right you ignored it when another member mentioned it, so here is a reminder.
> 
> By law under the Animal Welfare Act, you have 5 duties that you *HAVE* to provide. One of them is company or keep them apart dependant on the animal.
> 
> ...


I did not bring this up, I only mentioned it to respond to it, I didn't start quoting the RSPCA at all until someone else mentioned it

And no one seems to be listening, I have said I will TRY to get more rats, but I can't promise, why is that so hard for others to understand?


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> I did not bring this up, I only mentioned it to respond to it, I didn't start quoting the RSPCA at all until someone else mentioned it
> 
> And no one seems to be listening, I have said I will TRY to get more rats, but I can't promise, why is that so hard for others to understand?


Oh yet again taking a part of someones post and twisting it to suit your little immature mind.

I mentioned the RSPCA as a source of showing Rats need company, and not in a manner to suggest they are the only people who deal with the AWA.

And we are listening, it is you who is not.

*Get your rat a friend or rehome it. *

You are committing an offence, but more importantly you are giving that 1 rat a poor life, one that will end it's life alot sooner that it should.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

You are not listening or you would have heard me say several times I am TRYING to get more, but it may take some time, depending on:

 If I can have any

IF I get the ok, finding some and then getting them

Maybe I will be allowed them, perhaps I will find some easily BUT I cant do it overnight.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> You are not listening or you would have heard me say several times I am TRYING to get more, but it may take some time, depending on:
> 
> • If I can have any
> 
> ...


And we are just saying if the parents say no, then the best thing will to be finding her a new home.

And yes you are true it cannot been done overnight.

But it can be done within say 7-8 months, can't it? 7-8 months is long enough to try and get your rat a friend and to ask your parents if you can get one I am sure you will agree.

Soooo since your post 7-8 months ago, stating you wanted her to settle in first, then you would get her a friend haven't you got her a friend?????

Instead until it was brought up here, you had no intention of getting her a friend. You wanted harvest mice, and deemed your wants a higher priority than the welfare of your rat.

You openly admit you lied to get the rat, by saying you already had one, and currently you are not carrying out the Duty of Care required as a pet owner under law. Please please tell me you are over 16, otherwise things are about to get a whole lot more serious.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> And we are just saying if the parents say no, then the best thing will to be finding her a new home.
> 
> And yes you are true it cannot been done overnight.
> 
> ...


Hopefully it won't take 7/8 months!

Back when I last posted I wasn't allowed any more pets full stop. Now they're willing for me to get harvest mice. That's only happened in the last couple week or so, if you look at the rodent section you'll find I posted a thread asking where I could get some from. Since I bought Tia I've lost a few of my others which is why I'm now allowed the mice. And before anyone says anything, yes I have asked for another dog, again only posted in the last week or so, but that was me just trying my luck seeing as I'd just been to Crufts and the dogs where fresh in mind.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Then shelf the plans to get the harvest mice, and go with another rat. The harvest mice can be your next pet to try and get, once you have a partner for your current rat. 

Your concerns about how getting her a friend may change her are unfounded. Yes she will change, she will be glad of the company so will be more "brighter".

She will still be the same with regards cuddles, coming to the door etc etc. In fact if you adore the things she does you will be able to double that feeling you currently have. You win, and more importantly she wins by getting a friend.

But as said, if your parents say no then I would say it is only fair your rat is given a new home.


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

As long as you have a good husbandry regime, no multiple rats won't smell worse. 

If you don't have a good husbandry regime then yes it probably will smell. Twice the animals...twice the urine and faeces...twice the smell. Like I said if you clean out well then this shouldn't happen.

I got to admit I'm a little confused. You say you didn't like having mice before because of the smell, but now you want more mice? Before that you wanted a chinchilla or a dog? If you're not sure what you want for definite then you and the animal will be better off if you don't get it.

I hope you do convince your family to let you find a friend for your rat. After that, if you still want something else, make sure that you do plenty of research from as many books and websites as you can. That way you can provide everything for that animal before you adopt it. Hopefully, that way you can avoid having these sort of problems and arguments in the future.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

swatton42 said:


> As long as you have a good husbandry regime, no multiple rats won't smell worse.
> 
> If you don't have a good husbandry regime then yes it probably will smell. Twice the animals...twice the urine and faeces...twice the smell. Like I said if you clean out well then this shouldn't happen.
> 
> ...


I just want to point out, none of my animals smell, never have only them 4 male mice. I've had countless, rabbits, gerbils, hamsters etc before and they never smelled. I had a female mouse for a few years also and she didn't smell, just the males. So before anyone thinks I don't clean them out properly or often enough, let me assure you I do, I just couldn't do anything with these mice.

Harvest mice don't smell like 'pet' mice do - in fact they don't smell at all hence why I kept them in my room. it's one of their big advantages in being a suiteable bedroom pet. Your only supposed to clean them out every 4 months (no less), and even by the time that is up, you still can't smell anything at all. Apart form actually being a mouse they are completely differnt to normal mice - I couldn't have put the 4 males I had in my room for 2 hours never mind 4 months!

with regards to the dog, I really really want another dog, but I already have 2. Having been to Crufts last week and met the breed that I want, I decided rather foolishly to ask my Mum if I could have one and, well, she went bananas. Feeling rather down at the thought of having to wait possibly years before I could get one, I decided the best distraction would be something else, and that getting and building a new shed with a new cage, and a couple of baby chins would take my mind off it. So I posted on here if chins could be walked thinking I could 'train' them as a project to keep my mind off the dog I want so much, but quickly realised that trying to buy something else to cover what you actually want doesnt work, so I changed my mind.

In all honesty I still want my dog, always will, and would forget about any other pets if I was told I could have one, including the rats. But I can see that no way will it happen, and perhaps I _was_ wrong to buy 1 rat but I was in a pretty crap place when I got her, I bought her to cheer myself up. I know it was wrong, but I just felt so awful hollow and down, that I just wanted something to cheer me up. I am now trying to persuade my parents to let me get some more to go with her.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

What's wrong with your 2 dogs now that you don't want to spend your time walking, playing with and training them?


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

Shrap said:


> What's wrong with your 2 dogs now that you don't want to spend your time walking, playing with and training them?


Just waiting for the grass allergy to be used as an excuse now


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Just waiting for the grass allergy to be used as an excuse now


Right I have bloody had it now! I have tried to be reasonable, I have taken on board your comments and I have explained my reasons for my questions and replies. I have admitted I have went wrong with the rat and told you honestly the reasoning behind it. I did not have to do that but I did. I have said I will try to get more rats if I can but even that isn't pleasing you so know what? I cant do right for doing wrong - why the Hell should I bother?:cursing:

How dare you judge me for wanting another dog does there have to be a reason other than I like dogs and I like the breed? what the hell does it mater to you why I want another dog? Having a grass allergy is NOT an excuse- do you know how bleeding hard it is to manage such an energetic breed with such a complaint, I can't run her on grass, she can't run very well on concrete, I don't live near a beach and she's the most exercise needing breed possible, have you ANY idea how difficult that is? I would LOVE to be able to take my dog to the park and let her chase footballs accross the field again but I can't. It's not an excuse you self righteous sanctimonious bully, it's a frickin NIGHTMARE:cursing:

I suppose you think I should just set up my agility course on the concrete so she can rip her paws open then you can accuse me of 'cruelty' to my dog.

I was prepared to listen to you regarding the rat but why should I? Whatever I put you say is wrong so what's the point? I told you honestly and truthfully why I bought her when I didn't have to and you replied mocking me about my dog with some smartass comment - so truly why should I listen to you?


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Right I have bloody had it now! I have tried to be reasonable, I have taken on board your comments and I have explained my reasons for my questions and replies. I have admitted I have went wrong with the rat and told you honestly the reasoning behind it. I did not have to do that but I did. I have said I will try to get more rats if I can but even that isn't pleasing you so know what? I cant do right for doing wrong - why the Hell should I bother?:cursing:
> 
> How dare you judge me for wanting another dog does there have to be a reason other than I like dogs and I like the breed? what the hell does it mater to you why I want another dog? Having a grass allergy is NOT an excuse- do you know how bleeding hard it is to manage such an energetic breed with such a complaint, I can't run her on grass, she can't run very well on concrete, I don't live near a beach and she's the most exercise needing breed possible, have you ANY idea how difficult that is? I would LOVE to be able to take my dog to the park and let her chase footballs accross the field again but I can't. It's not an excuse you self righteous sanctimonious bully, it's a frickin NIGHTMARE:cursing:
> 
> ...


Errr mainly due to the fact it's the law!!!!!


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Right I have bloody had it now! I have tried to be reasonable, I have taken on board your comments and I have explained my reasons for my questions and replies. I have admitted I have went wrong with the rat and told you honestly the reasoning behind it. I did not have to do that but I did. I have said I will try to get more rats if I can but even that isn't pleasing you so know what? I cant do right for doing wrong - why the Hell should I bother?:cursing:
> 
> How dare you judge me for wanting another dog does there have to be a reason other than I like dogs and I like the breed? what the hell does it mater to you why I want another dog? Having a grass allergy is NOT an excuse- do you know how bleeding hard it is to manage such an energetic breed with such a complaint, I can't run her on grass, she can't run very well on concrete, I don't live near a beach and she's the most exercise needing breed possible, have you ANY idea how difficult that is? I would LOVE to be able to take my dog to the park and let her chase footballs accross the field again but I can't. It's not an excuse you self righteous sanctimonious bully, it's a frickin NIGHTMARE:cursing:
> 
> ...


:lol: Your just making me laugh now, I was responding to someone else hence quoting them, wanna point out where I questioned why you want another dog???

And yes thanks I know very well how to cope with an energetic dog with a grass allergy cos guess what? I've had one 
With vet supervision it is VERY easy to cope with a dog that has an allergy, but then you would know that cos your dog is receiving vet treatment, right?

Finally, why should you listen to me and OTHERS as to why your rat needs a friend?
BECAUSE IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN THAT RATS SUFFER IMMENSELY WHEN KEPT ALONE.

If you are going to keep your rat alone because of a sarcastic remark that someone said on an internet forum then I really feel very sorry for your animals.

Yet again proving my point that you pick bits of posts to get offended over 

Oh and a FYI if I am talking to you, I will quote you, not someone else :wink:


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Here you go Colliewobble:

Pet Rat Information Sheet - all you need for happy healthy pet rats

Mentions owners who could worry that a pair could be less tame etc, just like the worries you have expressed.

Do not want you thinking we are all ganging up on you. So I am posting this link to highlight that we are not making it up, others away from PF agree.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

DoggieBag said:


> Here you go Colliewobble:
> 
> Pet Rat Information Sheet - all you need for happy healthy pet rats
> 
> ...


Very good article 
Rep coming your way


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> :lol: Your just making me laugh now, I was responding to someone else hence quoting them, wanna point out where I questioned why you want another dog???
> 
> And yes thanks I know very well how to cope with an energetic dog with a grass allergy cos guess what? I've had one
> With vet supervision it is VERY easy to cope with a dog that has an allergy, but then you would know that cos your dog is receiving vet treatment, right?
> ...


Oh yes you was responding to me, someone else posted why did I want another dog and you gave a sarky comment of 'waiting for me to mention the 'grass allergy excuse'' if you'd of been answering that other poster why use such a snarky nasty comment - if you've read my dog thread ( which you must of to know about my dog's allergy) then you know that I simply wanted another dog for no other reason than liking the breed. Why bring up my dog's allergy? And in such a sarcastic way? That has nothing to do with me wanting another dog whatsoever.

It IS difficult to manage I should know I have to manage it, and I find it rather strange that no matter what I say I've had, what pet, problem, allergy you've had exactly the same and have the answer, like one of those people always trying to go one better. If I said i have a pink hippo that sings the national anthem at 12 every night, would you then tell me that you have had one just like that but you could make it sing it in french instead? I don't know nor particularly care how 'easy' your dog was to manage ,mine isnt.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

colliewobble said:


> Right I have bloody had it now! I have tried to be reasonable, I have taken on board your comments and I have explained my reasons for my questions and replies. I have admitted I have went wrong with the rat and told you honestly the reasoning behind it. I did not have to do that but I did. I have said I will try to get more rats if I can but even that isn't pleasing you so know what? I cant do right for doing wrong - why the Hell should I bother?:cursing:
> 
> How dare you judge me for wanting another dog does there have to be a reason other than I like dogs and I like the breed? what the hell does it mater to you why I want another dog? Having a grass allergy is NOT an excuse- do you know how bleeding hard it is to manage such an energetic breed with such a complaint, I can't run her on grass, she can't run very well on concrete, I don't live near a beach and she's the most exercise needing breed possible, have you ANY idea how difficult that is? I would LOVE to be able to take my dog to the park and let her chase footballs accross the field again but I can't. It's not an excuse you self righteous sanctimonious bully, it's a frickin NIGHTMARE:cursing:
> 
> ...


erm the same way i manage my dog? i have a mal with crap recall so i cant let her off lead and she gets frustrated in open areas

we go on LONG street walks and by long a normal walk lasts between 1 hour to 3 hours

whos to say what ever other dog you get wont have such an allergy either?

you are such a stuck up spoilt brat, who pays for your dogs? you? or your parents? do you know how much it costs to keep a dog? jabs, food, insurance? mishkas insurance is £400 a year, you should think yourself damn well lucky that you even have 2 dogs

and yes we have heard that you will TRY to get her friends, but the fact of the matter remains 
*if you can not get her any friends then you NEED to rehome her* this is for her own health and mental wellbeing, you need to stop being so selfish


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

When I first joined here I had just one rabbit. These guys said to me that I should get him a friend which confirmed the fact I already knew, but them saying it made me push more for it.

I got him a friend and do you know what? It's the best thing I've ever done. There is nothing like watching them play together.

Then seeing that has now lead me to get another two.

Yes you may love your rat, but wouldn't you like it to be happy? And have a friend? That's the thing with animals you can't ask them what they want so we have to do our best to give them the best they could wish for.

I highly suggest you speak to your parents about getting more as it will not only make your rattie happy. But wouldn't it also make you happy seeing him with a friend?


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Little boy, why so many pets? Rabbits, mice, rat, dogs...If I were you I would be perfectly happy with 2 dogs, not whine for more. Why a 3rd dog if you seem to be bored with the 2 you have? You seem to have a tendency to hoard pets, never a good idea, especially in our parents' house. Please discuss rationally with them the idea of getting another rat. I cannot understand why they would say OK to mice but not one extra rat. Remember you can't have it all, now or even when you are older: that is a fact of life, trust me.. Tell your parents you will make them a deal: no more nagging about mice, chinchillas or another dog, if they would just let you have a friend for your rat. Then stick to that promise.


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

I once had a chinchilla when I was growing up and we probably gave it a terrible life as it lived on its own and didnt get much social interaction. It was friendly but definately not cuddly, research done in later years out of curiosity would seem that its the norm for chinchillas so anybody wanting a cuddly pet may be better off with something else. 

I can appreciate you wanting another pet, I would love another cat and keep going around in circles thinking its a good idea, no its not..right now it really isnt the right time, bf is against it and I cant afford to keep another cat on my salary, not when I have myself to consider and a wedding to pay for...even if the bf agreed to pay reality suggests we need to get ourselves on the property ladder and get a wedding paid for before we can consider an extra expense. 

So as much as I desperately want my Siamese kitten now isnt the right time, maybe it wont happen until my 2 are no longer here. I am also guilty of wanting everything "now" but at the end of the day what does it matter how long you wait, you will still be you and if waiting longer means its better all round then thats a good thing. 

Finally, can you honestly afford to keep all of these pets once you leave your parents? My salary is completely rubbish so keeping even one cat would be tight, I definately wouldnt be able to keep dogs and other pets. However I do earn considerably less than many other people (thats hotels for you, anybody considering the idea..DONT!) 

As harsh as it sounds if you desperately want a dog then you need to be putting your money towards moving out so you can get one sooner. The more money you spend on other pets means less to spend on moving, thus taking you even longer to get your dog. 

Not being able to get what you want is horrible, I am 25 and living as an only child for many years means I still have my spoilt brat tendencies where I want want want but my adult head puts itself on and tells myself to stop being an idiot. Especially when I look at my 2 being completely adorable (like this second my cat has just flopped on the floor giving me big eyes) I realise that I dont really need a third cat, I would love one but it doesnt stop me from loving my current babies


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Oh yes you was responding to me, someone else posted why did I want another dog and you gave a sarky comment of 'waiting for me to mention the 'grass allergy excuse'' if you'd of been answering that other poster why use such a snarky nasty comment - if you've read my dog thread ( which you must of to know about my dog's allergy) then you know that I simply wanted another dog for no other reason than liking the breed. Why bring up my dog's allergy? And in such a sarcastic way? That has nothing to do with me wanting another dog whatsoever.
> 
> It IS difficult to manage I should know I have to manage it, and I find it rather strange that no matter what I say I've had, what pet, problem, allergy you've had exactly the same and have the answer, like one of those people always trying to go one better. If I said i have a pink hippo that sings the national anthem at 12 every night, would you then tell me that you have had one just like that but you could make it sing it in french instead? I don't know nor particularly care how 'easy' your dog was to manage ,mine isnt.


Aww is someone butt hurt...... (psssst.... no I wasn't responding to you, I was in a sarcastic mood, note how I'm quoting you now?)
You know what if this is the way you speak to adults then I fully understand why your parents have put their foot down about more pets. You are coming across as a spoilt brat...
I like the way you brush over the question about your dog being under vet care for the allergy, guess that answers my question huh?
You know what I'm done, I don't need to tell you my qualifications or what pets I have had in the past, I will say that I have more experience than you've had hot dinners (I felt very old saying that :lol but I also understand that others have more experience than me and that no matter what the issue is I can learn from others that have been in the same situation.

Your attitude stinks and I feel very, very sorry for your pets :frown2:

And just to prove that I don't get angry quickly, myself and jimbo_28_02 have had many conversations about rabbit care, but because Jimbo was willing to listen and take advice on board none of Jimbo's threads turned out like this


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Well perhaps the other member you talked to had no other barriers to consider, ie it being someone else's house!

My dog's seen by several vets thank you seeing as you seem so keen on knowing that.

I have already explained why I am allowed harvest mice so easily the SIZE of them - big difference to a rat.

And you think my attitude is bad? How about you mocking my reply with a below the belt sly dig that my dog's allergy is why I want another? That was completely uncalled for and spiteful - I told you my reasons to try and give you a fuller picture so you don't keep jumping to conclusions and you gave me a snarky answer. In that respect I could snarkily suggest lil miss try training her dog to come back when called, but I won't because not only is it nasty, vindictive and disrespectful, she probably feels upset enough about her dog's recall without getting some sarcastic dig back about it.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

Wow took me like half an hour to read through this thread.

Out of interest..what breed of dog did you see at Crufts that you so desperately want? Because I saw the beautiful Leonberger at discover dogs and have decided that i desperately want that and must have one!!!

....However, I am not considering this as of yet because I am only 18, I do not currently have the income, space or my own house that would support such a breed of dog. But I think it is nice to know that in the future I will be able to have this amazing dog when the time is right.

Please appreciate that you are very lucky to have the pets you do. I know a member called Shadowrat (i think) who says they wasn't allowed a dog at all when they were younger and now are in their 30s and are finally thinking of getting one. Just think how great that day will be when you can provide for the dog and it will be no one elses responsibility except yours.

Also, can I have your rat?


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Well perhaps the other member you talked to had no other barriers to consider, ie it being someone else's house!
> 
> My dog's seen by several vets thank you seeing as you seem so keen on knowing that.
> 
> ...


So instead you try and make a dig about it, in rather a poor attempt at being cryptic.

Surprised you are online at this time of day, or is it half day in playschool on Tuesdays????


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Well perhaps the other member you talked to had no other barriers to consider, ie it being someone else's house!
> 
> My dog's seen by several vets thank you seeing as you seem so keen on knowing that.
> 
> ...


Jimbo lives at home as far as I am aware 
I suggest you do a little bit of research on Lil Miss's dog's breed before you make sly comments like that :smilewinkgrin:
Oh and please don't try to drag my good friends into this, I'm not a very nice person when people try to attack my friends :cursing:

You know what there are 13 year olds on this forum that show more maturity than you, how about you STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR EVERYTHING and either get your rat a friend or rehome to someone that can offer them a friend :mad2::mad2::mad2:


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> either get your rat a friend or rehome to someone that can offer them a friend :mad2::mad2::mad2:


i can


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

chrisd said:


> i can


I noticed that, you would make a great home


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

colliewobble said:


> Well perhaps the other member you talked to had no other barriers to consider, ie it being someone else's house!


If only you would agree to rehome your rat IF your parents wouldn't let you get it a friend...



colliewobble said:


> In that respect I could snarkily suggest lil miss try training her dog to come back when called, but I won't because not only is it nasty, vindictive and disrespectful, she probably feels upset enough about her dog's recall without getting some sarcastic dig back about it.


Malamute's don't recall. They can never be trusted, they were bred to run, and run, and run, and run. And run some more.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

colliewobble said:


> Well perhaps the other member you talked to had no other barriers to consider, ie it being someone else's house!
> 
> My dog's seen by several vets thank you seeing as you seem so keen on knowing that.
> 
> ...


you really are a -insert derogatory term here- arent you, as i said my dog is a MALAMUTE, as your so clued up on dog breed im sure you know what that means, these are dogs that CAN NOT be let off lead, they are incredibly head strong with extreamly selective hearing
she KNOWS recall and we regularly practice it
Recall Training | Facebook

in fact my dog is very well trained in the respect of a mal, she was dog aggressive when i got her, which is quite common for mals, now she loves all other dogs

but hay hoe, i think your selective hearing, sorry reading, is just as bad as mishkas

spoilt little brat


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## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Explain to your parents that instead of getting a couple harvest mice, new cage etc that if you got your rat a friend that it wouldn't add to your cages or take up anymore space. Make a deal with them thats how i got my pets but at the same time i'm extremely lucky that my parents both like animals too and our house is perfect for them. I hope you can come to some arrangement with your parents so your rat can have a little friend.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

ChrisD - the dog I want is a Pomeranian, think their beatiful little dogs. Sorry but no you can't have my rat

I know I could get another dog with an allergy, but a pom is a heck of a lot smaller than a sheepdog, and easier to exercise.

I pay 100% for everything for my dogs, exept insurance as I don't have that.

I do know what sled breed dogs are like, I was trying to put a cross that if someone thinks its okto give me a spiteful sarky dig about something I posted, then I could just as easily do the same. There is double standards on here like an old school tie network - what is it ,you go to each others houses and have a 'click' group and gang up together? Most posters are reasonable, offer help but try and see both sides to something, but a certain few just gang up together and shout people down. I'm surprised such bullying is allowed on a public forum, but then at a good guess the mods were probably sat next to you in class so you 'all stick together'

And it is bullying I have seen several members get it when you don't like what they say, 2 of which were frightened off the forum completely for asking perfectly normal acceptable questions. And surprise surprise it's exactly the same members time and time again

And why are you questioning why I'm on here at this time? Why are you?


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

OMG stop, you are making me laugh too much now.

Stop with the woe is me attitude for goodness sake, no one is ganging up on you. It is your own attitude that is making people sarky.
It isn't just me that gets frustrated with you, and I'm not the only person on here that has called you out on your attitude 

I love the way you like to bring up those 2 members everytime you've run out of things to say, especially as one of them only came on to cause trouble 

The only "click" group in this forum are people that look after their animals, that get frustrated saying the same thing over and over and over.

If this is the way you act with your parents I really feel for them, actually do your parents know how you talk to adults whilst they aren't supervising?????

Another little life tip for you, this is a public forum and as such we are all allowed to express our opinion, you my friend are the only one name calling on this thread


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

colliewobble said:


> ChrisD - the dog I want is a Pomeranian, think their beatiful little dogs. Sorry but no you can't have my rat
> 
> I know I could get another dog with an allergy, but a pom is a heck of a lot smaller than a sheepdog, and easier to exercise.
> 
> ...


-picks dummy up off the floor and hands back-

obviously you dont know else you wouldnt have told me to train her, stop back paddleing, your doing it wrong
all i was offering was a way you can walk and entertain your dog, like i do

just how old are you exactally? because right now your sounding like a spoilt 7 year old

if you dont like the people here you can always click the little cross and walk away


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

B3rnie said:


> you my friend are the only one name calling on this thread


not strictly true. I'm pretty sure I called it horrid and spoilt


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

Well actually a lot of people on here have tried to give you fair arguments myself included.

I answered your question about whether having an extra rat would make your shed smell. So, I answered no if you have good husbandry skills but if you did not clean them out often enough then yes it would smell. You took that as I was accusing you of not cleaning out your animals, which I wasn't.

No I do not agree with the pettier comments that some users have used, but to be fair with some of your responses you are probably fueling the fire, so IMO you are equally guilty of doing so. Also, it is probably not a good idea to include the moderators in some of your arguments about bullying. The moderators so far have not gt involved in the thread but to essentially say that they are in a clique with those that are arguing against you could be viewed as slanderous.

I will stand by what I said before in that I hope you are able to find your rat a friend, and now that it seems you have your heart set on a specific dog - Pomeranian was it? - that you do all the research you can to supply that dog with it's needs when you are allowed to have 1, if not when you have your own place and can do as you so wish.

I am not one to give out advise or instructions that I wouldn't do myself. I want to start an animal rescue in the future but at the moment do not have my own place or financial means to do so. Even though this is the case I am already researching all I can into different foods, bedding, health conditions, suitable vets etc.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

Shrap said:


> not strictly true. I'm pretty sure I called it horrid and spoilt


Good point, I will take that back but then I'm the sort of person that calls things as I see them so ya know


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> ChrisD - the dog I want is a Pomeranian, think their beatiful little dogs. Sorry but no you can't have my rat
> 
> I know I could get another dog with an allergy, *but a pom is a heck of a lot smaller than a sheepdog, and easier to exercise.
> *
> ...


Now correct me if I am wrong. But so far from your posts about getting a new dog, you have been coming across in a certain manner.

The image being given is that you find the Collie hard work, so want an easier dog. That stinks of, "OK going to give up on the Collie and find a replacement to do the things I want to do with a dog."

That image is made stronger by your comment above which I have made bold.

Now regarding the part I have made red:

You need to remember this is a public forum, one that you do not even have to be a member of to see the posts, which also come up as results on the various search engines. Any member of the public or indeed anyone connected with animal welfare could come across your posts.

If they do (in fact one is already aware of our posts), then they will notice you are not carrying out your 5 duties of care, you could not be bothered buying a cage for some pets, so instead put them in a storage box, you lied to get your rat, you appear to be giving up on the Collie and are looking for a replacement, you think it would be acceptable to walk a Chinchilla in a harness, and worst of all ignore the advice given by members more experienced than yourself.

I could tell you why I am here, but it ruins the fun of you thinking you know better than everyone. Not that I claim to know everything, but I am pretty well experienced in my field.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes it's a public forum, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if you don't like that opinion you think you can demand people rehome their pets! You don't argue with posters no - but only if they bend to suit your will, and you think I'm acting like a spoilt brat?!

I do know about sled dogs. I wasn't telling you to train her, I was trying to show I could give a sarky answer just like I got given.

And a malamute is bred to run so walking for ages will probably work. A sheepdog won't be satisfied just walking/running they need their minds kept occupied as they're bred to work. So it's not quite the same. 

I had tried to respond calmly to the posts at first, taking in what you all said and was preparing to ask my Mum about having more rats, but when I tried to honestly explain the reasoning for my actions and requests, I got given a spiteful nasty dig about my dog in return, so yes I got angry then. Someone asked why i wanted another dog, why didn't I just concentrate on training my dog and a certain poster quipped in a below the belt remark that they were 'just waiting for the grass allergy excuse now' which was totally uncalled for.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

There seems to be a lot of hostility and bitchiness here. Any more and the thread will be closed.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

They can highlight the fact that under law you are not meeting your 5 duties as a pet owner. So yes people are right, the only way that can be dealt with is by getting your rat company or giving her up for a new home.

So that is 2 options, you then said something along the lines of "I was going to get her company, but now why should I?"

So you ruled out one of your options yourself, leaving us all to remind you of the option *YOU* left yourself. Remember it was you who ruled out getting her company, not us.

I like the way you continually ignore certain questions by the way. 

And stop with the tips, Malamutes were not bred to run.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Anyway Colliewobble, your mum was ill yesterday is that right? Have you now had a chance to bring up the rat question?


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Now correct me if I am wrong. But so far from your posts about getting a new dog, you have been coming across in a certain manner.
> 
> The image being given is that you find the Collie hard work, so want an easier dog. That stinks of, "OK going to give up on the Collie and find a replacement to do the things I want to do with a dog."
> 
> ...


Okay. People have another dog without giving up on their other one. They want one just cos they like them, and maybe they want a different breed for a change. By smaller and less work I mean that if I'm unfortunate enough to get another dog with an allergy to grass, it is a smaller dog to carry over the fields and needs less exercise than a collie does so it would be easier to find another way to provide the exercise. I don't mean that my collie is hard work I just mean that a tiny 9 inch high lapdog would in theory be easier to manage with such a complaint than a dog bred to herd sheep for miles everyday - in short a lapdog with a grass allergy is easier to work with than a working dog with one.

As regards your other comments I have no idea what your on about? I never kept my pets in a storage box ( though plenty people do keep them in bin cages made from storage boxes if that's what you mean, but that is perfectly acceptable). Nor do I not have cages for any of my pets so I don't understand that? The only ones I have that aren't in cages are my rabbits but that's because I don't like them in cages, and they have free run of the shed, which I'm sure is more approved of by the members on here than a tiny cage, so I really don't understand what your getting at?

I have not put a chinchilla on a lead, I was asking if it's allowed now. I used to walk my rabbits and people thought that was cruel, but now it seems a lot of people do and it's considered an acceptable way to provide exercise. I havnt had chins for quite a while and wondered if anything had changed or developed in regards to exercising them the same way. I did not at any point say I was going to put a harness on one, just if you could. AFAIK there is nothing wrong with asking questions.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Okay. People have another dog without giving up on their other one. They want one just cos they like them, and maybe they want a different breed for a change. By smaller and less work I mean that if I'm unfortunate enough to get another dog with an allergy to grass, it is a smaller dog to carry over the fields and needs less exercise than a collie does so it would be easier to find another way to provide the exercise. I don't mean that my collie is hard work I just mean that a tiny 9 inch high lapdog would in theory be easier to manage with such a complaint than a dog bred to herd sheep for miles everyday - in short a lapdog with a grass allergy is easier to work with than a working dog with one.
> 
> Thank you for clearing that point up for me.
> 
> ...


I know you were asking a question regarding the harness. But common sense, especially if you have had Chin's in the past, says their body etc is not suitable for harnesses or outdoor walks.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

DoggieBag said:


> They can highlight the fact that under law you are not meeting your 5 duties as a pet owner. So yes people are right, the only way that can be dealt with is by getting your rat company or giving her up for a new home.
> 
> So that is 2 options, you then said something along the lines of "I was going to get her company, but now why should I?"
> 
> ...


It was me that said that. I thought sled dogs were runners....


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

What breed is your other dog by the way, just out of interest?

I am right that you currently have 2 aren't I?


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> They can highlight the fact that under law you are not meeting your 5 duties as a pet owner. So yes people are right, the only way that can be dealt with is by getting your rat company or giving her up for a new home.
> 
> So that is 2 options, you then said something along the lines of "I was going to get her company, but now why should I?"
> 
> ...


I have not ruled out my first option, I mearly stated that whatever I post is wrong apparently so what is the point? Why would you listen to someone who gave you sarky digs about your pet after trying to explain? Would you feel like listening to and taking advice from them?


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Shrap said:


> It was me that said that. I thought sled dogs were runners....


But you meant it in the recall sense of that they will not come back etc. CW took you literally (I think???) and it was that I was correcting.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Okay I have a question, and would appreciate it if you answered this one.

Why won't you rehome your rat if you can't get it a friend?


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> I have not ruled out my first option, I mearly stated that whatever I post is wrong apparently so what is the point? Why would you listen to someone who gave you sarky digs about your pet after trying to explain? Would you feel like listening to and taking advice from them?


OK fair point. Lets start with a clean slate, shall we? 

Now have you had the chance to ask about another rat with your mum yet?


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> What breed is your other dog by the way, just out of interest?
> 
> I am right that you currently have 2 aren't I?


Yes I do have 2. He's a mini poodle, and he's eleven yearsU old, so I don't think it would be very fair to start training him agility now. But I don't want another dog so I can train it tricks and agility, I want one simply cos I like them. Both my dogs do do tricks actually, and up to her allergy developed my collie did Agility. But that's had to stop as common sense says she can't tear around a course leaping and turning quickly on concrete. Again the agility training isnt the be all and end all, I did it just to give her something to do to help occupy her mind.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> But you meant it in the recall sense of that they will not come back etc. CW took you literally (I think???) and it was that I was correcting.


Yes I went a bit out with that. I was trying to point out that no other breed needs to run and have its mind occupied like a collie. They have to have something to do which is why walking for hours on a road won't cut it like it will for other breeds. The mind needs exercising as much as if not more so than the body. When the dog can run around and chase a tennis ball or football or even just chase squirrels through the undergrowth it's ok. Still needs a fair amount from the owner hence why I've taught her so many tricks and agility. But if you take half the walking space away and have such set limits it suddenly gets a whole lot harder - you still have the dog needing to run and exercise its mind but a lot less options. It is very hard to deal with which is why I got so angry at someone sarcastically saying I use it as an excuse. It's not an excuse, it's a really difficult problem.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I thought this thread was about Chinchillas? :huh:



Joking aside..
Chinchillas shouldn't be kept in a shed, nor should they be walked outside on a harness.
Rats, like rabbits aren't solitary animals. 
Pet books are about as useful as floppy discs these days..
Grass allergies can be sorted with hay fever tablets or a spoonful of local honey.
Mals, like other northern breeds and hounds can recall but it takes a lot of time and effort and bravery to do so. 
Malamutes were bred to pull heavy things in snow - not run (thats huskies! Jeez!) therefore were not build for endurance and stamina (in the sense that huskies are) 
Collies may be working dogs - but mental stimulation, agility, flyball and obedience work for them too.. (unless you own sheep?)

I think I've covered all the points I picked up on...


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Shrap said:


> Okay I have a question, and would appreciate it if you answered this one.
> 
> Why won't you rehome your rat if you can't get it a friend?


I'm sorry if I haven't answered one of your questions they've gotten a bit mixed up in the bickering. What questions was it you wanted answering?

Re rat: because I love her to bits, she's a wonderful pet and I dont want to give her to someone else. Why is that so hard to understand?


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

colliewobble said:


> I'm sorry if I haven't answered one of your questions they've gotten a bit mixed up in the bickering. What questions was it you wanted answering?
> 
> Re rat: because I love her to bits, she's a wonderful pet and I dont want to give her to someone else. Why is that so hard to understand?


So it's because you're putting your wants over her needs? It's hard to understand because we love our pets more than ourselves.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2012)

colliewobble said:


> Re rat: because I love her to bits, she's a wonderful pet and I dont want to give her to someone else. Why is that so hard to understand?


If you actually read this thread and your other one you will get why we don't understand that selfish mentality


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## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Theres no doubt about it that you obviously love your pets. I'd hate to rehome any of mine but if i couldn't meet everything required to keep them mentally and physically healthy i'd have to rehome them. It would be horrible to do so but it's for the good of the animal


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

CW- your rat may seem happy but nothing ever comes close to how happy they are with friends,they play,groom e.t.c they need company. 

you should forget about Harvest mice for alittle while and concernate on making your rats life better. You ovs love animals (just as i did as a kid and still) books are outdated Honestly my 6yr old had a rat care book as her reading book and it had a single rat it in, you know what she did? she went to school and told them the book was wrong and it was cruel to keep a single rat shes 6yrs old and understands it why have you had so much troublewith it? and would rather get more animals then get 1-2 more rats (who wont make any more smell) or rehome her to give her the best life she can have! 

i had two rats about 12 years ago, i had to rehome them i couldnt at the time give them the life they needed it hurt like hell but they went on to a wonderfull home with a young lad. I knew it was selfish to keep them because i loved them and would miss them i knew they needed more. Some times the best thing you can do is rehome a pet if you cant give it everything it needs that makes you a good pet owner to realise they sometimes you arent the best owner for that animal


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

I do love my rat. When I bought her I simply wasn't allowed more. Now hopefully I am. I have come up with a plausable and reasonable way of asking for more which will hopefully work.


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## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Good luck, got my fingers crossed that she lets you!


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

colliewobble said:


> *Well perhaps the other member you talked to had no other barriers to consider, ie it being someone else's house!:rolleyes*:
> 
> My dog's seen by several vets thank you seeing as you seem so keen on knowing that.
> 
> ...


still live at home actually so no it isnt my house

@Bernie it is true me lives with my mummy and daddy


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

peter0 said:


> Good luck, got my fingers crossed that she lets you!


Thanks gotta get my Dad onside too! Though if I can convince my Mum I've more chance getting a yes from both. Like I've said I will try and ask her.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Can you not show her all the info on the fact they cant be left as single rat? that it would effect her mental health etc?


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

Im seriously getting angry at your lack of conscience for your rats needs. ive wasted 10 minutes of my life reading your rubbish and i feel like topping myself. 
you seriously need to grow up. the fact that you buy animals underage, hide them and then abuse them is disgusting and no matter what your age you should know better. 

the fact being age dosent matter. im 23 and own 31 male rats. i give my boys everything. ive rescued rats from abusers like you and had to deal with the end product. sulk all you want love, if u dont give a pet what they need, in this case company, you are an abuser so wear the shoe as it fits.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

What the hell are you on about? I don't abuse my animals and I'm TRYING to sort out the problem. If you've 'wasted 10 minutes of your life' you'll know this.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I've already put one warning on this thread about the insulting and antagonistic remarks. I am closing it now.


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