# Help I'm desperate!!



## rubyandlola (Jan 20, 2009)

Hi I'm new to this forum and have joined this evening in desperation! We have a 17 month old King charles spanial who we have had since she was 10 weeks old. I can not get her toilet trained, when we first got her we tried crate training and this did not work...(in reflection the crate was to big) we tried puppy pads but she would always we next to them, for a while when the weather was warmer she started going outside but now shes in her second winter I am more desperate than ever. I'm begging someone to give me some advice as to how to get her to go outside, I can not continue to clean up the mess, the carpets are constantly soaking wet and shes even started weeing on our bed....I'm at the end of my tether and am having daily arguments with my husband as he wants her to go. to make matters worse we got a cat 5 months ago to keep the dog company on the rare occasions I went out as shes a very human depend dog and they are so lovely together but nowthe past couple of weeks shes started to pee on the carpet as well despite me changing her litter tray every day!!! Please help because at the moment I don't know what else to do, I've had to replace 2 carpets in the 17months we have had her and I can't continue like this, I'm a childminder and have kids around all day long! Any positive advice welcomed xx


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Hi, you really do sound as if you are at th end of your tether! 

You said you tried crate training her when she ws little and the crate was too big... have you tried it since with a crate the right size?
You will need to go back to basics and train her as if she was a puppy.. it will be much easier taking her out too often rather than her having an accident!

This page is really good for toilet training: House Training your Puppy

and if you are crate training and she does not pee putside, put her back in.
take her out on a lead so she doesn't get the chance to play or she will have fun and forget to pee!

good luck and some more members will be on shortly with more advice i assume  lol

x


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## Rach (Sep 4, 2008)

I would go back to square one, out the garden at regular intervals praising when she does something, get a smaller crate and use it at night, and don't let her on your bed if she's piddling

I have a similar problem with one of my Cavaliers, she will still mess if she's not let out when she demands and she is nearly 6


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

the smell will stay in the carpets most of the sprays dont seem to work. but you can get doggy ones. 

You could try locking her with a stairgate into an easy to clean floor room. Get a dog flap for easy access. if you catch her doing it make a loud noise to make her jump and put her straight outside. The puppy pads if she wees next to it turn it UPSIDE DOWN on the wee patch to soak it up then leave it over th spot she peed. she shoul then GO on it as it lready has her pee smell on it. slowly move it outside. stand outside with ehr LOADS of praise when she gos and stay outside while your praising. If you catch her in the house loud noise shout no and put her outside in the same spot every time. it will be hard work but hopefully you will get there. or find a dog trainer close by to you to help. 
good luck


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## rubyandlola (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks ladies.....tomorrow I;m going to spend most of my time in the garden trying my best the trouble is I can't stand out there to long as I have young children inside who I can't obviously leave unattended! I'm not sure I could use a crate now as shes very much ets treated like a child not a dog and would feel to cruel cageing her....see sleeps on my daughters bed at night but has never wee'ed on her bed just ours once I hve changed the sheets! Are all king charles very clingy??? I'm home most of the time, only really go out to do the school runs and even though I'm not gone for long she scratches and whines at the front door till I get back, which is why we got her the cat to keep her company!!


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## MonkeyDog (Oct 6, 2008)

As others have said, back to toilet training from basics.

First - get the carpet cleaned. You can hire a carpet cleaner and get pet odour solution to go in it. (Be careful with the solutions as some are poisonious IIRC - it's been a couple of years since I had mine done and I have to confess my mother sorted it for me) and use biological powder to wash your bedding. If you have duvets, these will need cleaning too (though it might be cheaper to buy new)

This will remove any scent that may be encouraging her to pee to reinforce her scent indoors.

Next - basic puppy training. Not easy with small children around but not impossible.

Take her outside (and any child that can't be put in a play pen in sight of the window unless your oldest is mature enough to watch the youngstes) *everytime* she wakes up, finishes play, finishes eating and at hourly intervals. With a good routine you can manage the children and toilet time.

Watch for signs - sniffing and circling are classic signs. She does this - take her out.

Praise lavishly and reward with a treat or a game when she pees outside, maybe even introduce a command word (I stupidly use 'pee-pee' - 'get busy' or 'business' is much less embarrassing)

If you catch her in the act, calmly a quietly put her outside - go out with her and praise if she finishes outside.

Any accidents you don't catch, clean up with biological wahing powder or a pet accident spray. Do not punish her - she won't understand.

*Consistency* is the key. Praise the good behaviour, ignore the bad.

A word on crates - they aren't cruel unless used cruelly. My dogs love their crates. It is a space that is all their own and they go there when they want some quiet time. But you need to use them right - always a positive experience. Crates are very good if you have young children - teach the children that they never go in the crate and the dog always has an escape.

That said, I'm not sure a crate would solve your problem. I understand the theory with keeping puppies dry at night - puppies will instinctively keep their bed area clean as they are vulnerable to predators in the wild. But your girl isn't a baby puppy anymore. That said, no-one likes to lie in their own effluence.

It is going to take time and some effort - especially if she has been punished for peeing indoors (she may not pee infront of you if she has learned she might get shouted at) but you can get there:001_smile:

Getting a cat clean.....a whole other post and whole other psychology!!

And separation anxiety....out of my experience. Perhaps a separate thread might attract advice from the more experienced.


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## Rach (Sep 4, 2008)

rubyandlola said:


> Thanks ladies.....tomorrow I;m going to spend most of my time in the garden trying my best the trouble is I can't stand out there to long as I have young children inside who I can't obviously leave unattended! I'm not sure I could use a crate now as shes very much ets treated like a child not a dog and would feel to cruel cageing her....see sleeps on my daughters bed at night but has never wee'ed on her bed just ours once I hve changed the sheets! Are all king charles very clingy??? I'm home most of the time, only really go out to do the school runs and even though I'm not gone for long she scratches and whines at the front door till I get back, which is why we got her the cat to keep her company!!


Can I just ask is it a King Charles you have or a Cavalier King Charles...if a King Charles I have no experience, if a Cavalier then YES they are clingy and love nothing more than human contact !!

I really do think you need to stop treating her as "child" and remember she is a dog...sorry not meant as a dig, but I have seen this so many times with Cavaliers and given and inch they will take a mile...you really do need to re-consider a crate, at least until she learns whats acceptabale and whats not.


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## xpalaboyx (Jun 17, 2008)

poisongirl said:


> This page is really good for toilet training: House Training your Puppy


I've checked the site and it really gives good advice.


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## rubyandlola (Jan 20, 2009)

Thank you so much for the advice. this morning I have shut the doors to the two rooms she normally wee's in although I wasn't quick enough to catch the first accident of the day! I have moved all the bedding, cat litter tray and feeding bowls into the kitchen which is quite big and is hard floor. When I do the school run I will shut all doors and stairgates so they cn only go in the kitchen. I'm about to take her for a walk so with a bit of luck I might cathc her next toilet on the walk./...I have put a treat in my bag ready!! As with the cat I think she is just lazy...I have gone out and brought a more expensive catlitter today £6 (ouch) to see if this helps but where she has pee'd more than once in the same place it's the smell attracting her so have shut of the rooms she normally does it in! Am going to put her outside more, our back garden is quite safe. Fingers crossed I get some progress today! And yes she is a cavalier.....does this mean she will never grow out of the clingyness ?


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Hi welcome to the forum. It souds like everyone has given you some great advice. I would also set an alarm every half hour ish to remind you to take her out. Just use this to get into a routine then extend it and finally cut it out once you are succesful. Good luck.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Clinginess, anxiety, lack of house training and not treating the dog as a dog, may I suggest being more of a pack leader and disagreeing with the behaviour.

Your dog shows no respect for what should be simple rules i.e. do not pee on my bed. If your children were using your lounge or your bed as a toilet I am sure you would be quick to explain what the alternative is, why it is wrong and then praise or reward them for using the correct area. If your dog has been used to going where it wants for the 14months you have had it then expecting it to go outside straight away is putting too much pressure on the dog and yourself. This will result in more tension between you, your partner and the dog because it has not learned to respect you as the one who sets the rules.
Suggestion:
Restrict the dog to a room or two rooms that you can give leniency to any accidents in. One room would be best for this and a bonus is a solid floor. Cover the whole floor area in newspaper. When the dog does it's business then praise and reward. This must be immediate so supervision is necessary. Clean up the mess and then lay more newspaper down. Gradually through doing this you will be able to decrease the area of floor cover in newspaper. If there is less newspaper down and the dog misses then no praise is given, the mess is cleared up and a sheet of newspaper is laid down over the area. If the dog goes on an area of newspaper really make a fuss of the dog. Overtime you should aim for just a few sheets over a small area, praising when the paper is used and disciplined when not (a stern "no" and then moved to the paper will be sufficient). Once a small area of paper is used on a consistent basis then this can be moved slowly overtime towards the door that you would use to let the dog out to use the garden. If the praise and reward has been constant then the dog will actively seek out the newspaper to use it and it won't prove an issue. Keep the paper by the door for longer than you did when moving it's position. When it becomes second nature for the dog take the leap of faith and move the paper outside.
When the paper has been moved outside then you need to start taking the dog out more often as stated before - after a sleep, eating, playing and just as something to do. When the dog uses the paper massive praise, a treat and a bit of a play in the garden. When you have got this level and it is consistent, wait until the dog urinates on the paper outside and take the paper to an area of the garden you would like the dog to use. Next time you take the dog out walk it to this area and it should use the newspaper in this area. If it does big up the dog as usual but tip the contents of the newspaper onto this area of the lawn and throw away the paper.
Now you need to start taking the dog to this area of the garden on leash and praising for using this area. Eventually you will just need to escort the dog there and then the dog will just go to that area under it's own knowledge of the rules. Job done.
How long this will take to train will depend on how consistent you are, how committed you and your family are (it's a job for everyone to enforce the rules as the dog has a need to fit in with everyone and will therefore learn quicker), if the treat is adequate to your dogs preference (this could be food or a favourite toy depending on which motivates your dog the most) and if you start showing your dog the respect it deserves by treating as a dog and thinking about it's requirements and needs (that's not meant to be harsh but taking an active interest in your dog's needs will only create a closer bond - they are not human and never asked to be treated equally).

So that should hopefully solve your toilet issue.

To get your dog to stop whining, barking or carrying on when you are not there is a bigger matter but it all interlinks with everything. The key to it is to make a list of rules for the dog. This needs to be a list that is agreed by the family. It may include things such as not allowing the dog upstairs, not allowing it to beg for food but it needs to be agreed and clear so that everyone can enforce them.

Take the time to train the dog and if it is already sitting on command or coming on command then you have the basis. As I have stated in other threads the "down" command is the most important, in my opinion anyway, and from this you can teach "stay" a lot better as it takes the dog longer to get up move towards you giving you more time to correct the unwanted creeping up and towards behaviour and gives a clear distinction to the dog.
Start by getting the dog into a down position (laying down) and treat. Down and then "Stay", a few seconds delay and then treat. Down, "Stay" and then a step back - treat. Down, "Stay", a step back, wait a few seconds wait and then treat. Down, "Stay", two steps back, turn away for a second and then turn back - treat.
Each time you have consistent behaviour of ten times on each stage then increase the distance or the time you face away. Do this until you can leave the room, walk around each bedroom or go outside and then return without the dog moving. What this allows you to do is stop the dog shadowing you by a simple "Stay" and then doing what you want to do. It counter-conditions the dog by teaching a behaviour that it can do to replace the behaviour that is unwanted which ultimately takes pressure off of the dog and teaches it to respect your wishes. If it is following you everywhere but picking up from you that it is not wanted it gets stressed and escalates it's anxiety because it doesn't know what else to do so it thinks by increasing it's level of behaviour it will satisfy you and itself so it all snowballs.
During this time try the old leaving the dog alone for a short time and returning with a treat is no barking or whining is experienced but you just need to walk out of the room. Dont think about being mean or trying to reassure the dog by saying "It's ok sweetie, I'll be back soon" as the dog doesn't understand the words but the tone of voice suggests that something is wrong and will increase the dog's anxiety. Ignore the dog and walk out the room closing the door behind you. Wait a few seconds and then return. Praise if no anxiety shown. Do the same again a few minutes later but try to increase the time you are out of the room.

If at anytime you leave it too long with any of the training stuff and the dog either gets up after a "Stay" or starts whining when you are out of the room do not discipline the dog because it is you that has moved too fast for the dog and you need to go back a stage and get that consistency.

I hope this helps.


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## silver_pigeon (Mar 25, 2008)

Go back to square one! 

Treat her as if she were a puppy, immediately that she finishes eating...out the door! First thing in the morning, out the door, last thing at night, out the door, and every 25 ish minutes inbetween!

Make her go back and re-train, she must understand that outside is the place for mess, not inside which is her home, we tried crate training but found it not as good as jus teaching our Russell that he must tell us when he needs to go!

Its worked, as I say out first thing in the morning, if we see him drink from the bowl we leave it 5 minutes and straight out! Go out with her also, give her encouragement and have a word for it, we use wee wees and poo poos it sounds dum but it works! Our boys know that when we go out with them and say this, if they want to go for either, then is the time! 

I hope that helps a little??


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

I definitely empathize with you. There is no question that this is one of the most frustrating obstacles to overcome. But I promise you when your pup comes around, it will be worth the time and effort. Firstly, I would recommend crate training. But before you can focus on that, I would get the pup to go outside. I have a 5lb min pin and she doesn't like going outside in our extremely cold canadian winters - but she does!

Watch your dog carefully for any signs that she needs to go outside. If need be, have her attached to a leash to you so that you're all ready to go when she is. I have bell trained my dog, which makes life a heck of a lot easier too - especially since she doesn't bark or make a lot of noise.

Take her to the same spot and tell her to "go wee" - don't say anything else. Eliminating takes a lot of concentration for a dog. Click and reward! If she wees in the house, clean it up. Don't shout at the pup or rub her nose in it. 

I also found that "Petzyme" helped rid the odour that only animals can smell after you've cleaned everything up - dogs tend to go in the same place all the time.

Plenty of praise and treats when she does the right thing will communicate to the dog what is expected of her. The reason she is eliminating in the house is because you haven't clarified what is expected of her. Positive reinforcement is key!

I have several resources that may also be of help to you if you're interested. Regarding, house and crate training, bell training, click training. This is my first pup and with enough patience she has become a perfect angel.

Good Luck!


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