# Origen or Arden Grange



## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

I have a 5 month Welsh springer spaniel and he now feeds on Wainwrights and Eukanab puppy (dry)and he is a good eater and likes his food. I also give him wainwrights wet mixed with dry atleast 3-4 times a week...which he loves. I was looking at the puppy food posts and also went on the food analysis website. I am very tempted to get Origen puppy ..sounds sooo good but I am a bit concerned about the high protein level . I do want to give my fellow a bit of variety and lloking at the different types of food I am overwhelmed and totally confusedconfused:
What would you experienced folks here recommend...Origen or Arden Grange? I do want to give him the best ...or is there another good one around ? I live in London .....and I want to give my chap the best .


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## Spaniel mad (Jul 17, 2009)

I use Arden Grange dry adn nature diet wet and mine are thriving on these


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2009)

Arden Grange is a supurb dry food - and well priced too next to some!
Also Nature diet is good!
regards
DT


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

Both are good foods but I prefer Orijen as there are no grains of any kind in it, dogs don'r need grains they are put in as fillers.

Terri


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## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

Kinski said:


> Both are good foods but I prefer Orijen as there are no grains of any kind in it, dogs don'r need grains they are put in as fillers.
> 
> Terri


Origen is good in terms of the contents but will the protein content which is very very high make my mad welshie hyper. However, I could mix with wainwrights ...which I have read here earlier that is very very good too.Is it Ok to mix?


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## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Arden Grange is a supurb dry food - and well priced too next to some!
> Also Nature diet is good!
> regards
> DT


Is Nature Diet good for puppies?


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## Spaniel mad (Jul 17, 2009)

nightingale said:


> Is Nature Diet good for puppies?
> View attachment 28755


My 13 week old puppies are on Nature diet puppy/junior


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

nightingale said:


> Origen is good in terms of the contents but will the protein content which is very very high make my mad welshie hyper. However, I could mix with wainwrights ...which I have read here earlier that is very very good too.Is it Ok to mix?
> View attachment 28747


My two shelties have been on Orijen for over a year and they're fine with it, it's usually the carbs in the food that then turn into sugar that send dogs hyper. I'm not a fan of mixing foods to much as a complete food is just that and I feel that mixing another one in could possibly upset the balance in the food.

Terri


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2009)

Personally i prefer arden grange but its just personal choice

Yes naturediet is good for puppies! Billy is on a mix of ND and raw meaty bones, he's 9mo now and as fit as a fiddle! 

Definatly get some ND - fabulous food!


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## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

Spaniel mad said:


> My 13 week old puppies are on Nature diet puppy/junior


Are Nature diet and Nature recipe same. I am sorry , I am not able to find the contents in Nature diet ....


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Orijen is primo recommendable and works out just as cheap as others (you feed them less)
I have heard that Eukanuba is difficult to wean off....... I dont know if this is true but you may have some problems in changing over 
Id go with Orijen out of the two though - both mine are on it


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2009)

Kinski said:


> My two shelties have been on Orijen for over a year and they're fine with it, it's usually the carbs in the food that then turn into sugar that send dogs hyper. I'm not a fan of mixing foods to much as a complete food is just that and I feel that mixing another one in could possibly upset the balance in the food.
> 
> Terri


I agree - its not a high meat content which is gonna make dogs hyper but quite the contrary a low meat content and loads of sugary crap and additives!!
My boy was hyper of Pedigree but will sleep all day after a good home cooked meal with loads of of fresh meat and veggies lol

I would vote for Orijen too - its the best out there as far as I'm concerned.
My boy did not do too well with commercial food with grains in it - as soon as we switched to grain-free food we saw the difference!

xx


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## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks .. I will order Origen right away . Is it Ok tio mix with eukanuba /Wainwrights initially. My boy is 5 months ..is there a particular kibble size ..recommended. The vet asked me to give him Hills which I know is very good , but Jasper started to scratch a lot and in one of the threads here about hills i read a lot of dogs have an itch after eating Hills which is why I started looking around. Now he doesn't scratch so much ..just occasional doggie scratch .Also , on this food and nutrition talk do you give any extra vitamins during puppyhood? As Welshies are very active and he has a good amount of exercise most evenings ...should I give him any extra supplements ?


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

nightingale said:


> Is Nature Diet good for puppies?
> View attachment 28755


Yep! they do a puppy variety - feeding ND is about as near to feeding natural as you can get without actually doing it!


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## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

james1 said:


> Orijen is primo recommendable and works out just as cheap as others (you feed them less)
> I have heard that Eukanuba is difficult to wean off....... I dont know if this is true but you may have some problems in changing over
> Id go with Orijen out of the two though - both mine are on it


Really ...why is Origen difficult to wean off...never heard about his. May be it tastes very very nice But Jasper is not a fussy eater ...I hope he will be fine. anyway I am ordering Origen right away .


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## ColliePower (Mar 9, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Arden Grange is a supurb dry food - and well priced too next to some!
> Also Nature diet is good!
> regards
> DT


Is Arden grange complete or mixer?

and is it ok to feed complete food with ND?

I thought complete food was meant to be fed by itself?


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## Spaniel mad (Jul 17, 2009)

ColliePower said:


> Is Arden grange complete or mixer?
> 
> and is it ok to feed complete food with ND?
> 
> I thought complete food was meant to be fed by itself?


MIne have arden grange in the morning and Nature diet in the evening


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

ColliePower said:


> Is Arden grange complete or mixer?
> 
> and is it ok to feed complete food with ND?
> 
> I thought complete food was meant to be fed by itself?


Both arden Grange and Nature diet are complete!

Well the manufactures would not recommend mixing them! and neither do many breeders! I actually find it strange that at shows and whislt out many many owners ask me what I feed! (because she looks so good) Then are agast when I tell em! But I also know that several feed the same!!!!

Have fed four dogs this way now! plus the two dogs not owned by me whos owners I have converted all with imo outstanding results!

DT


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

nightingale said:


> Thanks .. I will order Origen right away . Is it Ok tio mix with eukanuba /Wainwrights initially. My boy is 5 months ..is there a particular kibble size ..recommended. The vet asked me to give him Hills which I know is very good , but Jasper started to scratch a lot and in one of the threads here about hills i read a lot of dogs have an itch after eating Hills which is why I started looking around. Now he doesn't scratch so much ..just occasional doggie scratch .Also , on this food and nutrition talk do you give any extra vitamins during puppyhood? As Welshies are very active and he has a good amount of exercise most evenings ...should I give him any extra supplements ?


My pair ( shelties ) are on the Orijen adult and the kibble size is fine for them, I'm not sure about the sizes of the puppy food. The reason your vet want's you to buy Hill's is that if you buy it from them they get a kick back from the company for selling it, it's also not a good food.
You do need to mix the different foods for maybe up to 10/12 days, you need to wean Jasper of the food he's on and on to the Orijen gradually, changing him to quickly could result in him having a dose of the runs. You don't need to give Jasper any extra supplements on Orijen, it really is the best food on the market at the moment.

Terri


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

nightingale said:


> Really ...why is Origen difficult to wean off...never heard about his. May be it tastes very very nice But Jasper is not a fussy eater ...I hope he will be fine. anyway I am ordering Origen right away .
> View attachment 28802


No, its Eukanuba that is difficult to wean off - I dont know if this is true but its just what ive heard.
You dont want to be giving any extra suppliments with Orijen, it is one of those foods that really doesnt need it. If you do you will upset its balance, just to mention, pups are growing that quickly and the bodies are in such health that they dont need suppliments as they create enough of what they need by themselves - its only when the get older that they may.

If you put him on this youll have a very happy pup. My boys 6 months now and I changed him to it around 5mths Hes and English springer getting 220g per day, you want to measure this amount out as you can easily over feed and it be wasted - it has one of the highest calorie/protein contents on the market so this is why you dont need as much - equivelent to giving him steak and 2 veg for his meals. 

my 13.5kg bag has lasted 2mths 2 weeks so works out to around £4 per week and the best possible start.


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## ColliePower (Mar 9, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Both arden Grange and Nature diet are complete!
> 
> Well the manufactures would not recommend mixing them! and neither do many breeders! I actually find it strange that at shows and whislt out many many owners ask me what I feed! (because she looks so good) Then are agast when I tell em! But I also know that several feed the same!!!!
> 
> ...


so its best to give them ND one meal and arden grange the other? ah i see!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

Sorry that was typing mistake...mind working faster than the fingers .. I did mean Eukanuba....


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

ok  you should start with lower amounts in each meal and see how he goes - i dont know if what ive heard about eukanuba is true so he may be fine it may take a while? My boy was getting just over 180g at 5 mths and weve only just upped it


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

ColliePower said:


> so its best to give them ND one meal and arden grange the other? ah i see!!!!!!!!!!!


I mix mine. Scoop of dry and 1/4 pack of ND twice a day.


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## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

james1 said:


> No, its Eukanuba that is difficult to wean off - I dont know if this is true but its just what ive heard.
> You dont want to be giving any extra suppliments with Orijen, it is one of those foods that really doesnt need it. If you do you will upset its balance, just to mention, pups are growing that quickly and the bodies are in such health that they dont need suppliments as they create enough of what they need by themselves - its only when the get older that they may.
> 
> If you put him on this youll have a very happy pup. My boys 6 months now and I changed him to it around 5mths Hes and English springer getting 220g per day, you want to measure this amount out as you can easily over feed and it be wasted - it has one of the highest calorie/protein contents on the market so this is why you dont need as much - equivelent to giving him steak and 2 veg for his meals.
> ...


i will order the puppy food Origen then... sounds great to me. Do I just follow the amount instructions given in the pack . Jasper has 3 meals a day ..so should I divide the 220 gms like you said into 3 meals ..he will be 5 months tomorrow and is growing fast . He still has to fill out his muscles..hehe


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Does Origen still put 'zea mays' into their food! Would someone who has a bag available please check the ingredients for me please!
thanks in advance!
regards
DT


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Does Origen still put 'zea mays' into their food! Would someone who has a bag available please check the ingredients for me please!
> thanks in advance!
> regards
> DT


no they dont - i couldnt find at least - ive just checked their site too


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

nightingale said:


> i will order the puppy food Origen then... sounds great to me. Do I just follow the amount instructions given in the pack . Jasper has 3 meals a day ..so should I divide the 220 gms like you said into 3 meals ..he will be 5 months tomorrow and is growing fast . He still has to fill out his muscles..hehe
> View attachment 28830


i gave my 5mths just under 200g and now at 6mths is just over 200g. You dont want to give him it all straight away - get him used to it over a good few weeks by slowly increasing his intake of it


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Does Origen still put 'zea mays' into their food! Would someone who has a bag available please check the ingredients for me please!
> thanks in advance!
> regards
> DT


No it doesnt, its main source of "filler" appears to be Psyllium which is a sort of seed which is ground up to be used as a dietry fibre which wont be absorbed by the small intesting.

Here is a list of the ingredients for orijen adult:
Fresh boneless chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh pacific salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh lake whitefish, fresh northern walleye, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), chicken liver, salmon meal, fresh turkey, fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

Hope that helps...


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

billyboysmammy said:


> No it doesnt, its main source of "filler" appears to be Psyllium which is a sort of seed which is ground up to be used as a dietry fibre which wont be absorbed by the small intesting.
> 
> Here is a list of the ingredients for orijen adult:
> Fresh boneless chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh pacific salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh lake whitefish, fresh northern walleye, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), chicken liver, salmon meal, fresh turkey, fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.
> ...


Thanks BBM!
Sounds horrific to me as it happens! Think I shall stick with my main food Nature Diet topped up with my AG!
love
DT


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

My dogs say they prefer this thank you very much!
Sounds more natural somehow!

FACT SHEET
Ingredients
Naturediet Pet Foods are complete and balanced moist ready meals in the most palatable and digestible form
possible. With a recipe to suit all ages and breeds, even owners with fussy feeders will see their dog enjoy its
food once again.
Meat
High quality meat sourced from animals fit for human consumption which contain essential amino acids, vitamins and minerals. We only
use chicken, lamb, rabbit and turkey as protein sources with NO beef or pork ingredients whatsoever. High quality meat based oils provide
a concentrated energy source and are essential for healthy skin and coat.
Fish
Ocean white fish, prawn, salmon, sardine and mackrel for essential oils. High quality fish based oils provide a concentrated energy source
and are essential for healthy skin and coat.
Natural Ground Bone
Natural ground bone is added in small amounts to provide essential calcium and phosphorous for strong healthy teeth and bones.
Brown Rice
Brown rice is used in preference to wheat, barley or maize, thus avoiding the possibility of gluten related intolerances. Brown rice provides
carbohydrate energy, vitamins, minerals and natural fibre.
Omega 3 & 6
Omega 3 and 6 can be found naturally in good quality meat and fish proteins. Naturediet also includes Omega 3 and 6 provided by flax.
Rosemary & Rubbed Sage
Both of these herbs have medicinal properties which assist with stomach upsets and digestive disorders. They are also beneficial for hair
growth and the reduction of hair loss. Sage has anti-inflammatory properties.
Seaweed
A seaweed extract with natural vitamins and minerals is used to regulate the body processes and aid in growth and repair. Seaweed helps
to correct dietary insufficiencies; it can contain up to 12 vitamins, 60 minerals and 18 amino acids. Our seaweed is harvested on the
pollution free west coast of Ireland.
Carrots
Fresh carrots provide a rich source of vitamins and minerals that aid in the cleansing of the blood and formation of good tooth enamel.
Potatoes
Potatoes are naturally low in fat and salt and an excellent source of carbohydrate. They also provide fibre for the diet and natural Vitamin
C essential to keep the digestive system in order.
Vitamins
Natural vitamins A and D3 and E are used as anti-oxidants to keep you pet in peak condition.
The Process
All Naturediet ingredients are cooked using high steam fusion, ensuring minimal damage to the ingredients and retaining all the natural
goodness and flavour.
We do not use artificial colourings, flavourings, preservatives, stabiliser of bulking agents.

OK Yep! I know this thread is OrigenV Arden Grange! but think I'll just continue as I am! Nature Diet first AG second!

DT


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

as a side... here are a couple of the arden grange ingredients lists - just to be fair!

Adult chicken & rice
Chicken Meal* (min 27%), Whole Grain Rice (min 26%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Fresh Chicken (min 5%), Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

Adult sensetive white fish and potato
Potato (min. 42%), White Fishmeal* (haddock) (min. 26%), Beet Pulp, Chicken Oil*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract *Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Here are the puppy food ingredients and analysis for comparisons too....

*
Orijen Puppy*Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh deboned lake whitefish, salmon meal, fresh deboned walleye, chicken liver, fresh deboned turkey, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

*Analysis: (whoa orijen really go to the nitty gritty!)*
Crude Protein (min.) 40.0%
Crude Fat (min.) 20.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 3.0%
Moisture (max.) 10.0%
Calcium (min.) 1.6%
Calcium (max.) 1.8%
Phosphorus (min.) 1.2%
Phosphorus (max.) 1.4%
*Omega-6 (min.) 3.2%
*Omega-3 (min.) 1.2%
*DHA 0.7%
*EPA 0.4%
*Carbohydrate (max.) 18.0%
*Glucosamine (min.) 1400 mg/kg
*Chondroitin (min.) 1200 mg/kg
*Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg

BOTANICAL INCLUSIONS
Chicory root 700 mg/kg
Licorice root 500 mg/kg
Angelica root 350 mg/kg
Fenugreek 350 mg/kg
Marigold flowers 350 mg/kg
Sweet Fennel 350 mg/kg
Peppermint leaf 300 mg/kg
Chamomile flowers 300 mg/kg
Dandelion root 150 mg/kg
Summer savory 150 mg/kg

VITAMINS
Vitamin A 15 kIU/kg
Vitamin D3 2000 kIU/kg
Vitamin E 200 IU/kg
Vitamin B12 0.22 mg/kg
Thiamine 50 mg/kg
Riboflavin 40 mg/kg
Niacin 200 mg/kg
Pan. Acid 32 mg/kg
Pyridoxine 26 mg/kg
Biotin 0.83 mg/kg
Folic Acid 3 mg/kg
Choline 2700 mg/kg
Ascorbic Acid 55 mg/kg
Beta carotene 0.40 mg/kg

AMINO ACIDS
Taurine 0.3 mg/kg
T. Lysine 2.7%
T. Threonine 1.65%
T. Methionine 0.87%
T. Isoleucine 1.60%
T. Leucine 2.9%
T. Valine 1.9%
T. Arginine 2.9%
T. Phen. 1.6%
T. Histidine 0.85%
T. Cystine 0.5%

MINERALS
Sodium 0.4%
Chloride 0.6%
Potassium 0.65%
Magnesium 0.10%
Sulphur 0.4%
Manganese 27 mg/kg
Cobalt 0.47 mg/kg
Iodine 3.5 mg/kg
Selenium 0.35 mg/kg
Iron 300 mg/kg
Zinc 204 mg/kg
Copper 21 mg/kg

*Arden Grange Puppy*

*ingredients*
Fresh Chicken 18%, Chicken Meal* 18%, Whole Grain Rice, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Egg Powder, Whole Grain Maize, Dried Brewers Yeast, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

*Analysis*
Protein 29%, Oil 18%, Fibre 3%, Ash 6%, Moisture 8%, Omega6 4.1%, Omega3 0.7%, Vitamin A 20000 IU/kg, Vitamin D3 1350 IU/kg, Vitamin E 135 IU/kg, Calcium 1.3%, Phosphorous P 0.85%, Copper 22 mg/kg (as Cupric Sulphate).

There ya go!


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

billyboysmammy said:


> as a side... here are a couple of the arden grange ingredients lists - just to be fair!
> 
> Adult chicken & rice
> Chicken Meal* (min 27%), Whole Grain Rice (min 26%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Fresh Chicken (min 5%), Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.
> ...


Sounds just as yuccy BBM! wish they were more info of the 'trace' amounts!

Can see why many prefer BARF when you really start to read it all!

DT


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

*Naturediet Lamb*

*Ingredients:*

Lamb, minimum 60% 
Vegetables, minimum 5%

Brown Rice, minimum 5%

Omega 3 (provided by Flax, Fish Oil & Meat) minimum 0.25%

Omega 6 (provided by Flax, Fish Oil & Meat) minimum 0.75%

Natural Ground Bone

Kelp

Herbs (Rosemary and Rubbed Sage)

130 kcal/100g

*Analysis*
Protein 10% 
Oil 8%

Fibre 1%

Ash 2%

Moisture 75%

Vitamin A 1250 iu/kg

Vitamin D3 150 iu/kg

Vitamin E 20mg/kg

*Naturediet Puppy

Ingredients*

Chicken & Lamb, minimum 60% 
Vegetables, minimum 5%

Brown Rice, minimum 5%

Omega 3 (provided by Flax, Fish Oil & Meat) minimum 0.25%

Omega 6 (provided by Flax, Fish Oil & Meat) minimum 0.75%

Natural Ground Bone

Kelp

Herbs (Rosemary and Rubbed Sage)

145 kcal/100g

*Analysis*

Protein 12% 
Oil 9%

Fibre 1%

Ash 2%

Moisture 75%

Vitamin A 1250 iu/kg

Vitamin D3 150 iu/kg

Vitamin E 20mg/kg


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

You read my mind re the trace elements BBM! impressed that they go to so much trouble to be so specific!
DT


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Sounds just as yuccy BBM! wish they were more info of the 'trace' amounts!
> 
> Can see why many prefer BARF when you really start to read it all!
> 
> DT


Yep thats one of the reasons i dont feed dry, At least with naturediet its a simple food made from simple ingredients 

I have nothing particularly against a dry diet, its just not for me  (or my dogs  )

You know the more i read the more tempted i am to switch to totally raw diet for the hounds, but i cant do that until i have bought a chest freezer. Still its tempting!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

billyboysmammy said:


> *Naturediet Lamb*
> *Ingredients:*
> Lamb, minimum 60%
> Vegetables, minimum 5%
> ...



There is really very little meat in this, the moisture content at 75% tells you that whilst they boast of 60% lamb/chicken it is water filled thats why your only getting around 10% protein.

Out of the three, Orijen wins hands down 75% meat 40% protein with 10% moisture - a much more natural diet and one where the dog will get nutrition out of it 

With Arden Grange only 5% fresh chicken listed quite far down the list of ingredients, even below chicken fat! - shows you that it again doesnt have a high meat content instead full of grain. I know which id choose - Orijen every day



billyboysmammy said:


> as a side... here are a couple of the arden grange ingredients lists - just to be fair!
> Adult chicken & rice
> Chicken Meal* (min 27%), Whole Grain Rice (min 26%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Fresh Chicken (min 5%), Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*,


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Hold your horses james....... your not comparing like for like here....

To get the true protein content you have to remove the moisture as in this calculation



> It can be difficult to compare foods because of the moisture content (i.e. dry diets average 10% water, but moist foods can have 80% water content) and the fact that labels list levels as an 'as fed' rather than 'dry matter' basis which would enable customers to directly compare the different foods.
> 
> If you want to convert 'as fed' to 'dry matter' a simple conversion is necessary. Are you ready?
> 
> ...


So

*Orijen *at 10% moisture and 40 net protein the actual protein content is *44.4%*

*Orijen puppy* 10% moisture and 42% protein gives actual protein at *46.6*

*Arden grange Puppy* at 8% moisture and 29% protein gives actual protein at *31.5%*

*Arden Grange adult* at 8% moisture and 25% protein gives actual protein at *27.1%*

*Nature diet* adult lamb at 75% moisture and 10% protein gives actual protein at *40%*

*Naturediet puppy* being 75% moisture and 12% protein gives actual protein at *48%*

You need to remember that orijens 70/30/0 ratio only stands on the raw ingredients, not the finished dried product. On their websit it states the ration and then goes onto to stating it is then cooked at low temps of 195oc

As an aside raw lamb contains around 28% protein in lean muscle meat there is more in organ meats and the less lean muscles.

So lets see, the argument that dry food contains more protein than wet food doesnt really stack up - there isnt a massive amount of difference between orijen and naturediet is there?

I have also taken this from the dog food analysis website


> Example 1:
> Chicken, chicken meal, turkey, turkey meal, brown rice, chicken fat….
> 
> That looks excellent. There are "four" meat ingredients at the head of the ingredient list. And only one grain. Once we factor in the removal of water content (which is about 80%) from the ingredients "chicken" and "turkey" then it is likely that these would be more accurately placed somewhat further down the ingredient list. A more likely "true" ingredient list here is thus: chicken meal, turkey meal, brown rice, chicken fat, chicken (sans water), turkey (sans water).
> ...


So with a dry food compared to a wet food (which still has all its moisture) there can actually be less meat than there is in the wet diets and than the manufacturers would have us believe. With orijen the actual dried meat content in the finished dry product is around 15% (if my calculations are correct!) and with arden grange its at least the 27% from the meal and around another 1% so making 28%.

Long post sorry!

Just for the record i havent ever said that orijen or arden grange or naturediet are bad foods, but if you are going to compare you need the help of a calculator to do so.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

I appreciate the differnce your making between non and hydrated foods however the value of the food (especially for dogs) is in the proteins ..... grains contain protein in the way of carbs which are neither easily digested in dogs digestive track or provide any use other than bulking out the kibble. So whilst the Naturediet would look to come out well the Arden Grange wouldnt. Orijen taking its carb protein from russet/sweet potato which is better digested than maizes, I feel is a more complete kibble than the others, as the wet has limited veg content in comparison


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Well have to say that BBM has supplied some startling information here today! I have been a fan of nature diet and Arden grange for as long as I can remember! But some of the analaysis supplied have looked pretty scary to me!

We all like to think we are doing the best by our pets where food is concerned! So I am going to go on my gut feeling with this one!

And stick to the Nature Diet!

Reason! My dogs look good on it!

Have always felt uncomfortable with complete dried! cannot put my finger on it! but I fear for many only long term will tell!
DT


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I have used Arden Grange with my dogs for at least 15 years (I presently have six but also used it for four other dogs, all sadly deceased) with no problems whatsoever. It was particularly useful for my dear departed Weimaraner who had a very sensitive stomach and was gluten intolerant.


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Arden Grange is a supurb dry food - and well priced too next to some!
> Also Nature diet is good!
> 
> Yes ditto


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## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

WOW... thanks for all the analysis . this has really helped me decide. i am going with Origen ..and hope he responds well to it . I will go for this maybe till his puppyhood and will see how it goes . It is expensive , but if it has the best ....then why not. another question to ...as some of you said about Nature diet ..i understand that the wet one is excellent ...IS the dry just as good ?


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

nightingale said:


> WOW... thanks for all the analysis . this has really helped me decide. i am going with Origen ..and hope he responds well to it . I will go for this maybe till his puppyhood and will see how it goes . It is expensive , but if it has the best ....then why not. another question to ...as some of you said about Nature diet ..i understand that the wet one is excellent ...IS the dry just as good ?
> View attachment 28880


Don't see how any dry can be anywhere near as good as a good quality wet myself!

Yep! agreed feeding dry is the fashionable thing to do these days! but something I shall never engage in!

And for those who say that dry is more hygenic as it does not attract the fliers! Foods should never remain in the dish long enough to do this.
DT


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

Personally i am a fan of wet food over dry, and raw being the best of all....

Its going to be a matter of personal choice, you can store a months worth of dry food in a much smaller space than a month of wet food. 

Imho i think that a good quality wet food is much nearer to a natural diet for a dog than a dry diet will ever be. However given the choice of a poor quality wet food over a good quality dry i would pick the dry.

Its all about what you prefer, and although i am the guilty person for putting all the analysis' on the thread, at the end of the day orijen and naturediet stack up to each other well in terms of quality. Its up to you which you choose (or another totally different food - noone is going to chain you up if you dont choose one of them  ). I will admit i was shocked at how poorly arden grange compared... it has changed my opinion of it somewhat. Yet i still wont feed my cats orijen as it gives them the trots! - i'll stick to their raw diet with a bowl of AG available too.

For the record Billy is fed on naturediet with the addition of raw meaty bones as a meal replacement a few times a week. This is because the chewing action of the raw bones helps to keep his teeth and jaw in good condition.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I never feed Arden Grange dry. I always soak it for 5 minutes in warm water before giving it. The dogs all get hard biscuits as well in the mornings to crunch on. I too agree with Nature Diet! The weimaraner had that as well during the last 8 months of her life to encourage her to eat more as she sadly had Insulinoma during that time (cancer of the pancreas) which finally saw her end, at age 13 & 1/2, which was pretty good innings for a Weim!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Ive just got mine AG senior for the first time, and im shocked by how small the nuggets are. I feed AG dry to my cats aswell, and those nuggets are almost as big as the dog ones!

Is the plain adult kibble a small size aswell, or is it just the senior?


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## Spaniel mad (Jul 17, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Ive just got mine AG senior for the first time, and im shocked by how small the nuggets are. I feed AG dry to my cats aswell, and those nuggets are almost as big as the dog ones!
> 
> Is the plain adult kibble a small size aswell, or is it just the senior?


No its not too small. Well i use the adult and the adult prestige and they are both the same size


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## nightingale (Oct 31, 2008)

CarolineH said:


> I never feed Arden Grange dry. I always soak it for 5 minutes in warm water before giving it. The dogs all get hard biscuits as well in the mornings to crunch on. I too agree with Nature Diet! The weimaraner had that as well during the last 8 months of her life to encourage her to eat more as she sadly had Insulinoma during that time (cancer of the pancreas) which finally saw her end, at age 13 & 1/2, which was pretty good innings for a Weim!


Since mine is just 5 month...is it advisable to soak the dry for a few minutes...he lost 3 of his teeth and sometimes when he is chewing his toy /puppy bone i can see little blood. Is it normal?






s


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i would say orijen is much better quality but its to expensive for me, i alternate between arden grange & raw for my lot & they look great on it.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

nightingale said:


> Since mine is just 5 month...is it advisable to soak the dry for a few minutes...he lost 3 of his teeth and sometimes when he is chewing his toy /puppy bone i can see little blood. Is it normal?
> View attachment 28918
> s


no dont soak it  and yes its perfectly normal, try giving some slices of apple or ice cubes, but it really doesnt hurt them


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## Robertdavid (Aug 4, 2009)

We feed our terrier Natural Instinct (Natural Instinct - High Quality Natural Dog Food) - its made of 80% meat & bones,and 20% veg and fruit with nothing artificial added - and she is thriving on it. There are no wheat or grains in it either which appear to be added as fillers to a lot of other foods. Had lots of problems with her ears and skin, which appear to have cleared up completely after the switch in her diet. Its delivered free too which I think gives it the edge over Orijen. If you want to feed raw (BARF) but struggle with the preparation then this could be the food for your dog.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2009)

Robertdavid said:


> We feed our terrier Natural Instinct (Natural Instinct - High Quality Natural Dog Food) - its made of 80% meat & bones,and 20% veg and fruit with nothing artificial added - and she is thriving on it. There are no wheat or grains in it either which appear to be added as fillers to a lot of other foods. Had lots of problems with her ears and skin, which appear to have cleared up completely after the switch in her diet. Its delivered free too which I think gives it the edge over Orijen. If you want to feed raw (BARF) but struggle with the preparation then this could be the food for your dog.


that looks good - another wet diet similar to naturediet!

*Natural Chicken
British chicken, British chicken livers, ground chicken bones, apples, carrots, pumpkin, sweet potato, Brewers' Yeast, cod liver oil, flaxseed oil, kelp

(Moisture 70.9%, protein 14.4%, fat 9.2%, ash 0.5%, carbohydrate 5%, fibre 0.5%)*

So the protein content in this is: 49%

and the protein content in their puppy is 45%

and in their lamb menu 39%

seems odd they all have such a variance in protein levels between their adult foods. Either way they appear good quality, good value and whats more THEYRE BRITISH!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Am i looking at the wrong bit BBM? It looks really expensive to me.

Box of 14 is £39. A box of ND is under £15. Almost the same pack size, only about 10g in it.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Am i looking at the wrong bit BBM? It looks really expensive to me.
> 
> Box of 14 is £39. A box of ND is under £15. Almost the same pack size, only about 10g in it.


the feeding quantities are different though - well according to their website.

They claim that a 20kg dog the 14 pack of 400g is enough for 14 days. If thats true then its only 20g per kg of food needed. Seems too little to me but thats what it says on the website.

so...... its 2.79 per pack which works out at 0.13p per kg feeding.

Billy gets approx 2/3 of a pack of naturediet a day at his 2.5kg weight! Which works out something like 0.60!?

OF course all this depends that the feeding guide on the website is correct.......... But if it is then yes its good value. IF not then NO WAY its far to expensive.

I cant imagine billy being only satisfied with just 40g of food a day!


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## Robertdavid (Aug 4, 2009)

I did some research on how much to feed and the general opinion appears to be between 2-3% of your dog's body weight - however, this can vary a great deal from dog to dog, and depends on many things, such as how fat your dog may be to start with, whether they run in a pack, are a working dog etc etc. Our terrier is 8kg so we feed her about 250g a day and she seems very happy! She gets the odd bone too instead once or twice a week

The other point to note is I believe that Orijen is a dry food, and Natural Instinct is a wet food - so it has a much higher moisture content and therefore weighs more.


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