# hamster is giving off a little heat smell but not sticking tail in air....



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

my female syrian is giving off a little smell like shes in heat (not a strong smell, its like a faint smell)

but shes not sticking her tail in the air when i touch her back/sides

does this mean shes in heat? or is she just coming into heat?

if its the latter when is she likely to come into heat

tonight or tomorrow?


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Females come on heat every 4 days for between 4-24 hours, so I would keep checking her. Stroke her back slowly and see if she freezes with her tail up. If she's not, she's not ready to mate, so try again a bit later. If she is you can introduce them, either put her in his cage, or put them both somewhere neutral. Don't put the male in her cage though. Keep an eye on them, and if they start fighting separate them and try again later or next day. Good luck with them, I wanted to get into breeding hamsters but I'm not good on the (very) complicated genetics side, which is annoying when your ok on the rest of it.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

I just knew a thread such as this was due


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Wobbles said:


> Females come on heat every 4 days for between 4-24 hours, so I would keep checking her. Stroke her back slowly and see if she freezes with her tail up. If she's not, she's not ready to mate, so try again a bit later. If she is you can introduce them, either put her in his cage, or put them both somewhere neutral. Don't put the male in her cage though. Keep an eye on them, and if they start fighting separate them and try again later or next day. Good luck with them, I wanted to get into breeding hamsters but I'm not good on the (very) complicated genetics side, which is annoying when your ok on the rest of it.


thank you for the advice



B3rnie said:


> I just knew a thread such as this was due


so?


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> so?


so what happens if your hamster has difficulty giving birth and needs a c section to save its life and the life of the babies. have you got a spare £2-300????? i highly doubt it


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> so what happens if your hamster has difficulty giving birth and needs a c section to save its life and the life of the babies. have you got a spare £2-300????? i highly doubt it


you have no idea what we have spare

but yes (not that its your business) we have it covered


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

when you post it on an open forum asking questions that breeders should know before they shove two animals together then yes it is everyones buisness.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> when you post it on an open forum asking questions that breeders should know before they shove two animals together then yes it is everyones buisness.


i didnt post about my financial situation

THAT is none of your business!


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

how old is your female? has she ad a litter before? and where did you get her from

some hamsters dont stand when they are stroked in heat, you ave to get them just right to tell if they are, if you researced breeding you would know this

i also think the fact that you are getting very deffencive and for lack of any other way to describe it, arsey, when people ask you questions, which yes if you post on an open forum asking these things we want to make sure you know what you are doing BEFORE telling you what you are asking, and potentially being part of causing a problem


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Lil Miss said:


> how old is your female? has she ad a litter before? and where did you get her from
> 
> some hamsters dont stand when they are stroked in heat, you ave to get them just right to tell if they are, if you researced breeding you would know this
> 
> i also think the fact that you are getting very deffencive and for lack of any other way to describe it, arsey, when people ask you questions, which yes if you post on an open forum asking these things we want to make sure you know what you are doing BEFORE telling you what you are asking, and potentially being part of causing a problem


thank you for the advice

but im not going to discuss my financial situation with people it has nothing to do with


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i didnt post about my financial situation
> 
> THAT is none of your business!


yes you do..... cant afford heating or hot water etc


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

LostGirl said:


> yes you do..... cant afford heating or hot water etc


did i post about my financial situation here?

NO

we can actually afford heating, we choose not to use it


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> did i post about my financial situation here?
> 
> NO
> 
> we can actually afford heating, we choose not to use it


Nope on this OPEN forum, Im 99% sure you have said you cant afford it rather then you just dont use it etc


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

LostGirl said:


> Nope on this OPEN forum, Im 99% sure you have said you cant afford it rather then you just dont use it etc


we couldnt afford it a while ago

things have improved


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> thank you for the advice
> 
> but im not going to discuss my financial situation with people it has nothing to do with


i never asked about your financial situation, re read my post


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

Lil Miss said:


> i never asked about your financial situation, re read my post


you didnt little miss. i did. she is always going on about how she cant afford heating and more than 1 meal. yet wants to breed a hammy who may need surgery if something goes wrong.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Lil Miss said:


> i never asked about your financial situation, re read my post


i didnt say you did, i wasnt talking about you


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## elmthesofties (Aug 8, 2011)

You're saying it's none of our business. Do you have any idea why we're TRYING to make it our business?


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i didnt say you did, i wasnt talking about you


Then why not answer the questions posed to you by Lil Miss then?


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

elmthesofties said:


> You're saying it's none of our business. Do you have any idea why we're TRYING to make it our business?


i dont care, it will never be your business

all you need to know is i have it covered, if she needs veterinary treatment we have the money for it


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i dont care, it will never be your business
> 
> all you need to know is i have it covered, if she needs veterinary treatment we have the money for it


then why didnt you just say 'we have the money put by incase of emergencies' instead you get all butthurt.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> then why didnt you just say 'we have the money put by incase of emergencies' instead you get all butthurt.


i did say we have the money

you got arsy with me i got arsy with you


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i didnt say you did, i wasnt talking about you


yes you were you quoted me, so hows about stop it with the attitude, and give me your reasons for not wanting to answer mine?
my guess is your female is from a pet store, never been bred before, and is too old to safely have a litter

its kool though, go get arsey with everyone, and alianate any one who may be able to help you


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Lil Miss said:


> yes you were you quoted me, so hows about stop it with the attitude, and give me your reasons for not wanting to answer mine?
> my guess is your female is from a pet store, never been bred before, and is too old to safely have a litter
> 
> its kool though, go get arsey with everyone, and alianate any one who may be able to help you


no, i was talking to you not about you, i was talking about CRL mentioning my financial situation

those questions are no ones business, why give people more ammo, i know peoples thoughts on breeding, im not interested in hearing them again

if you people had your way, i wouldnt have pets at all, cant breed, cant have a hamster from a pet shop


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> no, i was talking to you not about you, i was talking about CRL mentioning my financial situation
> 
> those questions are no ones business, why give people more ammo, i know peoples thoughts on breeding, im not interested in hearing them again
> 
> if you people had your way, i wouldnt have pets at all, cant breed, cant have a hamster from a pet shop


-stands up slowly and applauds-


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> -stands up slowly and applauds-


leave my thread then

bye


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Why are you breeding in the first place?

I know nothing about rodents/fluffs but the degree of research I went to to breed my 'mongrel' dogs (including the lineage of parents as far as I could), cost me alot of time! and funnily enough I did not need to ask questions on an open forum, as a simple google/book read told me all I had to know x 

You are breeding to sell Hammies to make money x


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> You are breeding to sell Hammies to make money x


really?

its funny that because i am going to keep them all


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> really?
> 
> its funny that because i am going to keep them all


hahahahahahaha yer righty 'o' - thats the kind of answer my 11 year would give x


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> hahahahahahaha yer righty 'o' - thats the kind of answer my 11 year would give x


yes i plan to keep them

just like i kept the other two litters that weve had

lol @ you thinking you know me


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

jods knows everyone. didnt you know that


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> yes i plan to keep them
> 
> just like i kept the other two litters that weve had
> 
> lol @ you thinking you know me


nope would not want to tbh, but the whole breed some critters when a whole load out there need homes hmmmm - laters x


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> nope would not want to tbh, but the whole breed some critters when a whole load out there need homes hmmmm - laters x


yes there are a load out there who need homes which im apparently not good enough to give a home too

anyway jog on with your high horse and get your head out of your arse


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Is your female from a pet shop? Do you have any information on her genetic history? How old is she?

If she's from a pet shop, with an unknown genetic history, then I'd 100% advise against breeding from her.

People here are trying to help, by giving good, valid, advice, please don't ignore it.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> Is your female from a pet shop? Do you have any information on her genetic history? How old is she?
> 
> If she's from a pet shop, with an unknown genetic history, then I'd 100% advise against breeding from her.
> 
> People here are trying to help, by giving good, valid, advice, please don't ignore it.


people arent trying to help

like i say if they had their way i would have no pets at all


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

How's your hamsters getting on Tinkerbell? One thing I forgot to put in my post last night, was the age of your female. If this is her first litter, she should be 5-6 months old ideally, and no older than 9-10 months for a first time as it is more stressful. Do you know the pedigree for her background so as not to pass off possible unknown problems to the pups? Sorry if I'm mentioned things that you already know. What colours/coat type are you hoping for? Are you planning on keeping any or do you have homes lined up for them?


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I take it she's a pet shop hamster like your mice.

Let me get this right, I remember a thread were you stated you couldn't see your friends because of:

1) Being house bound (what happens if your hamster needs the vet and your fella's not around).

2) Not being able to afford public transport to get to a friends house.

So if you can't afford heating or £5 for a taxi how will you afford vet fee's if something goes wrong?


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> people arent trying to help
> 
> like i say if they had their way i would have no pets at all


Oh for goodness sake, stop playing the victim 

You have had thread after thread about breeding and rescuing and you have had plenty of good responses. I for one went through a lot with you, in fact on more than one occasion you have said that breeding isn't for you............

Your threads always go this way, you ask advice, don't like the response so get all butt hurt and then the thread gets locked because you concentrate on one poxy comment that you don't like........

Seriously, get another hobby :nonod:


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Wobbles said:


> How's your hamsters getting on Tinkerbell? One thing I forgot to put in my post last night, was the age of your female. If this is her first litter, she should be 5-6 months old ideally, and no older than 9-10 months for a first time as it is more stressful. Do you know the pedigree for her background so as not to pass off possible unknown problems to the pups? Sorry if I'm memtioned things that you already know. What colours/coat type are you hoping for? Are you planning on keeping any or do you have homes lined up for them?


we will keep all of the babies, we have the space, time and funds

they are fine, we lost little bilbo, he just fell asleep one day and didnt wake up  it was a shock as there was nothing wrong with him

im hoping for some long haired, kaley is long haired and so is leonard

these are the hams

potential mummy









potential daddy


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> I take it she's a pet shop hamster like your mice.
> 
> Let me get this right, I remember a thread were you stated you couldn't see your friends because of:
> 
> ...


well you clearly didnt read properly

im not house bound, i am almost house bound, i can go out if its important or needed, my OH is always around

we can afford taxis



B3rnie said:


> Seriously, get another hobby :nonod:


right back at ya

your hobby seems to be slating me


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

no bernies hobby is picking up after the mess people like you make with animals


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> no bernies hobby is picking up after the mess people like you make with animals


i dont make a mess, the hamsters i have and breed are fine

if i bred hamsters and then gave them away to a rescue place then yes i would agree with you but i dont


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> no, i was talking to you not about you, i was talking about CRL mentioning my financial situation
> 
> those questions are no ones business, why give people more ammo, i know peoples thoughts on breeding, im not interested in hearing them again
> 
> if you people had your way, i wouldnt have pets at all, cant breed, cant have a hamster from a pet shop


so answer my questions then, if an animal is from a pet shop or not means nothing to me, i dont support pet shopsbut that isnt the issue, the issue is if an animal is from a pet store there is NO WAY you can tell what genetics it carries, if you dont know the genetics of an animal you should not breed it.

if you would like a couple of reminders as to the damage this can cause


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> we will keep all of the babies, we have the space, time and funds
> 
> they are fine, we lost little bilbo, he just fell asleep one day and didnt wake up  it was a shock as there was nothing wrong with him
> 
> ...


UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BREED THESE HAMSTERS!!!

are you aware of the white bellied gene? both these hamsters are banded, the white belly gene hides in a single white hair on the belly and produces anophthalmic whites, like the hamster in my picture above, these are eyeless and deaf and have much shorter lifes full of problems, if you do not know the genetic background of these hamsters you have no way of knowing if they carry this lethal gene, even breeders avoid banded to banded matings as the gene can hide very well for generations


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> right back at ya
> 
> your hobby seems to be slating me


Bless your lil cotton socks :lol: :lol:
If you think I spend my time running around for your threads then you are greatly mistaken 

But please do carry on playing the victim rather than listen to advice you asked for, I don't like repeating myself so I would go over your other threads in rodents so that when you mate your hamsters all the information is there.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Lil Miss said:


> UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BREED THESE HAMSTERS!!!
> 
> are you aware of the white bellied gene? both these hamsters are banded, the white belly gene hides in a single white hair on the belly and produces anophthalmic whites, like the hamster in my picture above, these are eyeless and deaf and have much shorter lifes full of problems, if you do not know the genetic background of these hamsters you have no way of knowing if they carry this lethal gene, even breeders avoid banded to banded matings as the gene can hide very well for generations


PLEASE listen to the advice given here, it's not done to 'gang up' on you, no matter how you may feel about being victimised, it's 100% out of concern for the welfare of your animals & their progeny


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Lil Miss said:


> UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BREED THESE HAMSTERS!!!
> 
> are you aware of the white bellied gene? both these hamsters are banded, the white belly gene hides in a single white hair on the belly and produces anophthalmic whites, like the hamster in my picture above, these are eyeless and deaf and have much shorter lifes full of problems, if you do not know the genetic background of these hamsters you have no way of knowing if they carry this lethal gene, even breeders avoid banded to banded matings as the gene can hide very well for generations


ok

these are my other hamsters


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> we will keep all of the babies, we have the space, time and funds
> 
> they are fine, we lost little bilbo, he just fell asleep one day and didnt wake up  it was a shock as there was nothing wrong with him
> 
> ...


Their beautiful Tinkerbell, I particularly love your LH male:001_tt1:, but I wouldn't breed these two for the reasons Lil Miss gives, and I honestly would advise you not to do so. If you want to get into breeding, I would find a good breeder and get two unrelated hamsters that you know the background of, and keep your current two as pure pets.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

Is sat here wondering what part of this sentence is so hard to get 



> if you do not know the genetic background of these hamsters you have no way of knowing if they carry this lethal gene


You do not know the genetic background of your hamsters, ergo, you should not breed these hamsters as you have NO idea what genetic defects they may carry...

If you really want to breed then find a good recommended breeder and get your breeding hamsters from them.
If you can afford any complications from this litter then why not use that money to get good hamsters that will be less likely to get the complications in the first place.
You will know their genetic history, therefore you will be more aware of what each hamster will produce.

Breeding any animal should never be about choosing who to mate with who based on pictures on an open forum, ever :nonod:


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Wobbles said:


> Their beautiful Tinkerbell, I particularly love you LH male:001_tt1:, but I wouldn't breed these two for the reasons Lil Miss gives, and I honestly would advise you not to do so. If you want to get into breeding, I would find a good breeder and get two unrelated hamsters that you know the background of, and keep your current two as pure pets.


theres no breeders around here, ive tried looking further afield but they wont come here and we cant go to them

and its been said on here that they wont just hand over hamsters to me for me to breed

what about sheldon (the grey) hes a block colour, dark eyes and no white on his belly


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> Is sat here wondering what part of this sentence is so hard to get
> 
> You do not know the genetic background of your hamsters, ergo, you should not breed these hamsters as you have NO idea what genetic defects they may carry...
> 
> ...


Completely agree!


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> theres no breeders around here, ive tried looking further afield but they wont come here and we cant go to them
> 
> and its been said on here that they wont just hand over hamsters to me for me to breed


..........


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

*facepalm* 

Just because there are no breeders in your area doesn't mean you should just stick whatever hamsters you find together.

I breed African Pygmy Hedgehogs, I don't drive and had to travel to Wales for my first "good" hedgehog as all the breeders round my area were bad breeders with no linage.

Then my next came from Scotland, the next from Northampton and only 3 weeks ago I traveled to Nottingham to pick up my newest girl. 

If you can't travel or can't find means of traveling and can't find a breeder willing to travel. Don't bother breeding. Simples....

There's already enough poorly bred hamsters clogging pet shops and free ad sites.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> Just because there are no breeders in your area doesn't mean you should just stick whatever hamsters you find together.
> 
> ...


and mind wont be, they will be kept

and i'll say again, its been said on here that a breeder will not just give me hamsters, so even if i do find one they wouldnt give me hamsters


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Putting it into clearer terms.

Picture this....

I can't get a Staffy (I say staffy as they are in large supply like hamsters are) for any breeders locally as there are none within a good distance without spending the day on public transport ect and they wont deliver to me.

So off I toddle to the puppy farm in the next village and come home with a Staffy puppy, no linage but that really doesn't matter. Then off I go again and get another from another puppy farm, no linage again.

Then I decide because there are no local breeders I should breed! After all what's the harm?

I'm pretty sure you can see the problem.


How will I know these two puppies didn't come from the same lines?
How will I know if these puppies carry genetic issues?
How can I find good homes when there's already so many out there?


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> and mind wont be, they will be kept
> 
> and i'll say again, its been said on here that a breeder will not just give me hamsters, so even if i do find one they wouldnt give me hamsters


Ohhh i get it now, it's absolutely fine to breed sick or deformed hamsters so long as you are keeping them for yourself. You have no idea what genetics your hamsters carry, you could be breeding potentially lethal genes together without realising it. Just because you intend to keep the offspring doesn't make the suffering ok..

If you can't get hamsters that you know the genetic history of then don't breed... simples...

Oh but then you WANT baby hamsters so it will happen anyway


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> and mind wont be, they will be kept
> 
> and i'll say again, its been said on here that *a breeder will not just give me hamsters, so even if i do find one they wouldnt give me hamsters*


You're right, they will probably charge you for them.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

i am again looking for breeders

i get the feeling that if i cant find a breeder and dont breed but continue to get hamsters from pet shops you people will still have a go at me


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> and mind wont be, they will be kept
> 
> and i'll say again, its been said on here that a breeder will not just give me hamsters, so even if i do find one they wouldnt give me hamsters


By your own admission you are low on funds and suffer with poor health, what happens if your funds dry up or you have to give up your collection of hamsters?

Surely you could put your efforts into giving good PET HOMES to some hamsters needing homes from a rodent rescue or hell even those that are given away free on the internet.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i am again looking for breeders
> 
> i get the feeling that if i cant find a breeder and dont breed but continue to get hamsters from pet shops you people will still have a go at me


Finding a good breeder may involve travelling further than the immediate local area, but if you're dedicated enough to put the welfare of your future hamsters above convenience then that shouldn't matter


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> You're right, they will probably charge you for them.


i was told they wouldnt give me one at all

so i could just buy two hamsters from a breeder?


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> theres no breeders around here, ive tried looking further afield but they wont come here and we cant go to them
> 
> and its been said on here that they wont just hand over hamsters to me for me to breed
> 
> what about sheldon (the grey) hes a block colour, dark eyes and no white on his belly


Tinkerbell do you want to breed because your into breeding/showing, or because you can't find any hamsters around you so want to breed some yourself as the pets that you can't get hold of? If its the latter, I know how you feel, there are no breeders around me, and I've often thought if I breed my own litter it wouldn't matter that I couldn't get any as I'd have my own. The only problem with this however which has stopped me, is firstly getting a breeder happy to let you have their hamsters to breed, secondly the hassle and worry that goes with breeding, and thirdly, the size of the litter. Potentially you could have 18 pups in a single litter, if you don't find homes for them you would need 18 separate 80 x 50cm cages to house each hamster. You would need toys and a wheel for each, it cost me £40 to supply my six with a wheel and £30 for a house, imagine the cost of supplying 18! And the space you'd need! So as breeding them is a no go, and the breeders are too far for me, I've opted for using a pet courier to fetch them for me from the breeder. I've had 2 rabbits and 3 hamsters this way so far that I would never have been able to have otherwise, and hopefully there'll be another 2 hamsters in a few months. If you want I can give you details of an excellent animal courier, and I've found most breeders are happy for you to use one, as if your willing to pay to fetch a £8 hamster your obviously serious about it. If you have saved up money for breeding from your two, if I were you I would find a breeder with hamsters that you want, and use the money to have them picked up for you. You will get a wonderfully tame, friendly, healthy hamster, far better than what you'll get from [email protected].


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> By your own admission you are low on funds and suffer with poor health, what happens if your funds dry up or you have to give up your collection of hamsters?
> 
> Surely you could put your efforts into giving good PET HOMES to some hamsters needing homes from a rodent rescue or hell even those that are given away free on the internet.


im not good enough to rescue from rescue places apparently

i would like to get into breeding properly and get into showing hamsters eventually


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> ok
> 
> these are my other hamsters


the white-bellied gene can be present on the white belly fur of agouti type colours, and produces a roan effect on most self colours.

so you tell me, do you think any of these are compatible, without knowing their genetics..........

you wont like the answer, unless of course you would like a bunch of deformed hamsters


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> *im not good enough to rescue from rescue places apparently*
> 
> i would like to get into breeding properly and get into showing hamsters eventually


Do you provide a nicely sized cage? Do you house alone Syrian Hamster? Do you provide food and water? Do you take them to the vet when they are ill?

If so no rescue can reject you as you provide a perfectly good home.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Do you provide a nicely sized cage? Do you house alone Syrian Hamster? Do you provide food and water? Do you take them to the vet when they are ill?
> 
> If so no rescue can reject you as you provide a perfectly good home.


yes
yes
yes
yes
yes

i admit that the cages werent be enough at first, the lady at one of the rescue places gave me a link to a good sized bin cage and i got each ham one apparently that still wasnt good enough


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Wobbles said:


> Tinkerbell do you want to breed because your into breeding/showing, or because you can't find any hamsters around you so want to breed some yourself as the pets that you can't get hold of? If its the latter, I know how you feel, there are no breeders around me, and I've often thought if I breed my own litter it wouldn't matter that I couldn't get any as I'd have my own. The only problem with this however which has stopped me, is firstly getting a breeder happy to let you have their hamsters to breed, secondly the hassle and worry that goes with breeding, and thirdly, the size of the litter. Potentially you could have 18 pups in a single litter, if you don't find homes for them you would need 18 separate 80 x 50cm cages to house each hamster. You would need toys and a wheel for each, it cost me £40 to supply my six with a wheel and £30 for a house, imagine the cost of supplying 18! And the space you'd need! So as breeding them is a no go, and the breeders are too far for me, I've opted for using a pet courier to fetch them for me from the breeder. I've had 2 rabbits and 3 hamsters this way so far that I would never have been able to have otherwise, and hopefully there'll be another 2 hamsters in a few months. If you want I can give you details of an excellent animal courier, and I've found most breeders are happy for you to use one, as if your willing to pay to fetch a £8 hamster your obviously serious about it. If you have saved up money for breeding from your two, if I were you I would find a breeder with hamsters that you want, and use the money to have them picked up for you. You will get a wonderfully tame, friendly, healthy hamster, far better than what you'll get from [email protected].


yes if you wouldnt mind providing me with the details of the animal courier i would be very grateful and also how much does it cost to transport hamsters?


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Why not start off with showing first if your money situation is better? Go a visit good breeders get to know them, visit shows e.t.c THEN look into improving lines?

Even my 7 and 8 yr old children know not to bung pet shop bred fluffs together, just listening to an RESPONSIBLE adult they know that pet shop animals are sadly poorly bred.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ive made another topic here if anyone would be kind enough to help

http://www.petforums.co.uk/rodents/290361-would-anyone-mind-hamster-breeders.html

lostgirl, i dont feel confident enough to go to shows yet as i know most of them are quite far away from where i live


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> ive made another topic here if anyone would be kind enough to help
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/rodents/290361-would-anyone-mind-hamster-breeders.html
> 
> lostgirl, i dont feel confident enough to go to shows yet as i know most of them are quite far away from where i live


I know if its a aneixty thing, start off small and work your way up You could also start your own with just a small amount of people maybe do a mixed fluff show just for fun with people off say hamster forums e.t.c, or try and go along to cats and dogs home fun days (if your ok with dogs) it might just help with your confidence.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

LostGirl said:


> I know if its a aneixty thing, start off small and work your way up You could also start your own with just a small amount of people maybe do a mixed fluff show just for fun with people off say hamster forums e.t.c, or try and go along to cats and dogs home fun days (if your ok with dogs) it might just help with your confidence.


yeah i like the cat/dog home idea

would love to go to a show and i will eventually, i would love to not only go but to show hamsters too

i am definitely going to go into breeding though


----------



## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i am definitely a breeder though


fixed that for you, you have bred before, therefore you are a breeder

Which makes you wonder why you don't know all this already, regardless of all that many have already gone through the reason you should never breed pet shop animals on quite a few of your threads.

Which leads me to believe you either ignore peoples post or keep repeating the same kind of threads because you know it will cause controversy hmmmmmm....

I know which one I think it is


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> fixed that for you, you have bred before, therefore you are a breeder
> 
> Which makes you wonder why you don't know all this already, regardless of all that many have already gone through the reason you should never breed pet shop animals on quite a few of your threads.
> 
> ...


think what you like

and by going into breeding i mean doing it properly to get a proper line of hamsters


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

shes in heat, i could ******* cry 


but i am NOT going to breed her


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

oh when i ask for help IE start a topic asking about well known trusted breeders, no one wants to help!


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> oh when i ask for help IE start a topic asking about well known trusted breeders, no one wants to help!


Chill your bean.

No one will want to help with an attitude like that, no doubt most of the hamster knowledgeable folk either have rescue hamsters or are offline at the moment.

Are you not a member of any UK hamster forums? You maybe able to get more suggestions there.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2013)

Maybe, just maybe that is because no one online knows of any.... I know, the horror of it all.....


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Chill your bean.
> 
> No one will want to help with an attitude like that, no doubt most of the hamster knowledgeable folk either have rescue hamsters or are offline at the moment.
> 
> Are you not a member of any UK hamster forums? You maybe able to get more suggestions there.


im a member of hamster hideout but i cant remember my details, might be worth joining up again


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> im a member of hamster hideout but i cant remember my details, might be worth joining up again


Google Hamster forum UK, as I'm looking now and there's a few I can't link due to forum rules.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Google Hamster forum UK, as I'm looking now and there's a few I can't link due to forum rules.


thank you i will


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i am again looking for breeders
> 
> i get the feeling that if i cant find a breeder and dont breed but continue to get hamsters from pet shops you people will still have a go at me


Nobody can or should have a go at you if you buy pet shop hamsters as long as you don't breed them. It's up to you where you buy your own pet hamsters from.



tinktinktinkerbell said:


> yes if you wouldnt mind providing me with the details of the animal courier i would be very grateful and also how much does it cost to transport hamsters?


Sorry for not replying, I went out to see to my own hamsters! Check your other thread.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Wobbles said:


> Nobody can or should have a go at you if you buy pet shop hamsters as long as you don't breed them. *It's up to you where you buy your own pet hamsters from.*


Yes, it is up to people if they want to go against sound advice, from people who know what they're talking about, & buy unethically bred animals from rodent farms or backyard breeders. It's not _just_ about not breeding them, it's about making informed decisions when choosing living, sentient beings.

Honestly Wobbles, anyone would think you haven't listened to a word wiser people on here have said to you in all your time as a member


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> Yes, it is up to people if they want to go against sound advice, from people who know what they're talking about, & buy unethically bred animals from rodent farms or backyard breeders. It's not _just_ about not breeding them, it's about making informed decisions when choosing living, sentient beings.
> 
> Honestly Wobbles, anyone would think you haven't listened to a word wiser people on here have said to you in all your time as a member


I have and do listen to members on here, that's why I put it was up to the op. It is entirely up to them and them alone if they are happy to buy pet shop animals, or want to look up getting them from a breeder. They have information and knowledge about both, its their choice which one they choose. I never suggested the op buy from a pet shop, I advised them to think about a courier to get one from a breeder. The op said people would have a go at them if they bought a hamster from a shop, which they shouldnt be as they need homes too. I don't intend getting from a pet shop again if I can help it, as I've dicovered breeder ones are far better, and I'd try to advise others the same, but I wouldnt get at someone for doing so. And I never mentioned backyard breeders,they obviously need avoiding at all costs, I mean ethical,good, knowledgable ones, who do exist if you go looking around.


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## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

Hey tinks, 

Just a quickie, if you have bred your hamsters before surely you would be aware of signs of heat and also problems that could arise? Or was it an accidental breeding? 

As a newbie I find you very defensive but maybe I need to stick around a little longer, I can see alot of good advice from on this thread. 

If rescues won't rehome to you, I would be very worried about your current setups or even money situation as this may be the reason. Thus meaning maybe you need to doublecheck on breeding in future. 
If a rescue won;'t rehome there will be a good reason not to.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

grapes said:


> Hey tinks,
> 
> Just a quickie, if you have bred your hamsters before surely you would be aware of signs of heat and also problems that could arise? Or was it an accidental breeding?
> 
> ...


there isnt a good reason

i have admitted my cages werent the best, the lady give me a link to the bin cage that would be suitable, i bought one for each of my hamsters and they now have one i told the lady this and she still said i was not good enough, i did everything she said!


----------



## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

I thought they were freddie 2's? Not to worry. 

Was your previous littler planned?


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

grapes said:


> I thought they were freddie 2's? Not to worry.
> 
> Was your previous littler planned?


no we dont have those cages

and yes they were


----------



## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

Ok cool, just thought you may be aware of hamsters in heat as you have previously planned your litter. 

Maybe your best bet would be to find a different rescue, there are alot out there  
Do your hamsters still get time outside there cage most of the day? If so, would they still be able to have the same amount with another litter? Hopefully none of the others should loose any time/care and attention.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

grapes said:


> Ok cool, just thought you may be aware of hamsters in heat as you have previously planned your litter.
> 
> Maybe your best bet would be to find a different rescue, there are alot out there
> Do your hamsters still get time outside there cage most of the day? If so, would they still be able to have the same amount with another litter? Hopefully none of the others should loose any time/care and attention.


with snowflake and tinkerbell it was easy to see when they were in heat, their smell was very strong and they wee very sensitive to the touch, with kaley its not so obvious which is why i asked

they are all out daily and yes they will all get the same attention


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## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

Do you separate areas for them to all be out at the same time then?


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

grapes said:


> Do you separate areas for them to all be out at the same time then?


they each have their own ball and stand, we have a play pen (which they are NOT in together by the way) also me and my OH each has one playing with us, they are oh whats the word, like they get a turn of each activity if you get what i mean, like they spend time in the ball, in the play pen, with us etc, they are swapped around


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## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

That sounds brilliant


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

grapes said:


> That sounds brilliant


oh good lol

i thought you were going to say thats not good enough lol


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> there isnt a good reason
> 
> i have admitted my cages werent the best, the lady give me a link to the bin cage that would be suitable, i bought one for each of my hamsters and they now have one i told the lady this and she still said i was not good enough, i did everything she said!


This may be the reason though. The fact that you already had animals that didn't have the right set up and had not realised yourself if you know what I mean? People don't drop their first impressions easily a lot of the time x


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> This may be the reason though. The fact that you already had animals that didn't have the right set up and had not realised yourself if you know what I mean? People don't drop their first impressions easily a lot of the time x


if that is the case then its just stupid


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> if that is the case then its just stupid


It's not really stupid, the majority of rescues just want the best for their animals


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> It's not really stupid, the majority of rescues just want the best for their animals


and i would give it to them

i dont know anyone who is up the entire time a hamster is up, i dont know anyone whos hamsters basically just use their cage for sleeping and eating lol

i have rescued before, sling was the most amazing little man, sadly the rescue i got him from doesnt exist any more

but anyway, i will be going into proper breeding


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> and i would give it to them
> 
> i dont know anyone who is up the entire time a hamster is up, i dont know anyone whos hamsters basically just use their cage for sleeping and eating lol
> 
> ...


But you are a complete stranger to a rescue, many times just a gut instinct is enough for them not to rehome to someone.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> But you are a complete stranger to a rescue, many times just a gut instinct is enough for them not to rehome to someone.


fair enough


----------



## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> if that is the case then its just stupid


Not at all. In fact I would say it was sensible.

They need an owner that can recognise when something is wrong, and will provide the very best for an animal that hasn't had the best life.

Now though it may have been a genuine mistake on your behalf, and you may look back and think 'der...obviously... how did I miss that...', the point is this lady only saw that you had inadequate facilities for the pets you already had.

As a rescue I bet that as soon as she saw that it was game over, and though unfortunate maybe for you, it's a good job that she is taking the welfare of the animals so seriously.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> Not at all. In fact I would say it was sensible.
> 
> They need an owner that can recognise when something is wrong, and will provide the very best for an animal that hasn't had the best life.
> 
> ...


people shouldnt bang on about be rescuing then


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> people shouldnt bang on about be rescuing then


I don't understand what you mean sorry? People shouldn't bang on about you rescuing or about rescuing in general or..?


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> I don't understand what you mean sorry? People shouldn't bang on about you rescuing or about rescuing in general or..?


about me rescuing


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> about me rescuing


Just because you have been turned down by one rescue doesn't mean you will be turned down by all rescues.
All it takes is a little bit of effort and dedication.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> Just because you have been turned down by one rescue doesn't mean you will be turned down by all rescues.
> All it takes is a little bit of effort and dedication.


i would like to rescue but i would also like to breed, both are rewarding


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Well personally I was just answering where you had said that there was no reason you couldn't rescue. Just letting you know why (or probably why). I am not suggesting you rescue or do anything really. If it were me, I would personally save up for the travel, overnight stay (if that was necessary) and return travel costs to get a breeder's animal. I wouldn't breed though personally. Not worth it in my opinion.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i would like to rescue but i would also like to breed, both are rewarding


Like a few of us have said, maybe it really is a very good idea to learn everything you can about breeding and genetics before even considering where you will get the animals from? That will give you time to save for a breeder's animal too. Only then will you be able to breed sensibly


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> Well personally I was just answering where you had said that there was no reason you couldn't rescue. Just letting you know why (or probably why). I am not suggesting you rescue or do anything really. If it were me, I would personally save up for the travel, overnight stay (if that was necessary) and return travel costs to get a breeder's animal. I wouldn't breed though personally. Not worth it in my opinion.


i think its very worth it


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> Like a few of us have said, maybe it really is a very good idea to learn everything you can about breeding and genetics before even considering where you will get the animals from? That will give you time to save for a breeder's animal too. Only then will you be able to breed sensibly


i have the money for 2 hamsters from a proper breeder already, i havent contacted any yet but i will be doing


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i think its very worth it


Sorry I will reword that...

Not worth it 'for me'. I have no interest in improving lines or learning about the genetics or doing all the involved stats and working with them. I am only concerned with having happy pets that I can enjoy. So breeding, certainly for now and the near future is definitely not for me


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> Sorry I will reword that...
> 
> Not worth it 'for me'. I have no interest in improving lines or learning about the genetics or doing all the involved stats and working with them. I am only concerned with having happy pets that I can enjoy. So breeding, certainly for now and the near future is definitely not for me


fair enough

i would like to have a line of happy, healthy, friendly hamsters


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Ah my mistake, I thought I had read somewhere that breeder pets where a problem cos no breeders were around your area.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> Ah my mistake, I thought I had read somewhere that breeder pets where a problem cos no breeders were around your area.


i have found a couple and i have also been directed by a lovely lady to a animal transportation company so i can look at breeders further afield


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Could you please direct me to the company cos that could help me in the future?? When or if (but really... when!!) I ever decide to share my home to more furries


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> Could you please direct me to the company cos that could help me in the future?? When or if (but really... when!!) I ever decide to share my home to more furries


i'll PM you...........


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## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

Maybe your problem with rescues may be your attitude? 
I see you are quite rude to people on here whos opinions you do not like/want to hear, are you like this with rescues who may give you advice to improve?


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

grapes said:


> Maybe your problem with rescues may be your attitude?
> I see you are quite rude to people on here whos opinions you do not like/want to hear, are you like this with rescues who may give you advice to improve?


well for one thing im rude to people who are rude to me

i was not rude to the rescue, i bent over backwards for them


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## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

maybe they preferred it forwards to backwards :confused1:


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> well for one thing im rude to people who are rude to me
> 
> i was not rude to the rescue, i bent over backwards for them


Try looking back at your post history, I think you will find you were rude to me when I only offered good advice :aureola:


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

grapes said:


> maybe they preferred it forwards to backwards :confused1:


lol.......


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> Try looking back at your post history, I think you will find you were rude to me when I only offered good advice :aureola:


LOL not!

your first post was rude and wasnt even advice!


----------



## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> LOL not!
> 
> your first post was rude and wasnt even advice!


Try looking further back than today


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> Try looking further back than today


im on about your first post in this topic


----------



## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

So this thread has now got long, are you going to be breeding? rescueing? buying? I can't keep up


----------



## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> im on about your first post in this topic


I wasn't......


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

grapes said:


> So this thread has now got long, are you going to be breeding? rescueing? buying? I can't keep up


going to breed



B3rnie said:


> I wasn't......


well i am

ive never been rude to someone who hasnt been rude to me


----------



## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> going to breed
> 
> well i am
> 
> ive never been rude to someone who hasnt been rude to me


You are a bit sharp with your answers and slightly defensive. It can give off the impression of rudeness sometimes tink. x


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## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

which ones are you going to breed? do you have pics?


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> *going to breed*
> 
> well i am
> 
> ive never been rude to someone who hasnt been rude to me


Will you be researching decent breeders in that case? & finding a mentor?

You don't plan on breeding any that you rescue are you?


----------



## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> going to breed
> 
> well i am
> 
> ive never been rude to someone who hasnt been rude to me


Lets make this clear as you seem to be struggling.... *Before* this thread, *during * your time on PF I have offered advice and talked through things with you.... YOU then became rude......

My first reply to this thread was *not* rude, it was my opinion based on *my* experience of talking with you in the past..

You can't be rude to people and then expect them to fall over themselves to give you advice


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

grapes said:


> which ones are you going to breed? do you have pics?


There's pics of some of her hams earlier in the thread, she was advised against breeding from these though, for good reasons


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> You are a bit sharp with your answers and slightly defensive. It can give off the impression of rudeness sometimes tink. x


when i get snotty replies about things nothing to do with the topic then yes im going to get defensive, when i ask questions as im willing to learn and i get snotty replies such as 'you should already know this' or 'go away and learn it' then yes im going to get defensive



grapes said:


> which ones are you going to breed? do you have pics?


none of the ones i have as they are all pet shop hams, i will be getting two from a proper recommended breeder



simplysardonic said:


> Will you be researching decent breeders in that case? & finding a mentor?
> 
> You don't plan on breeding any that you rescue are you?


yes i will be researching a proper breeder, hopefully they will be able to be my mentor

and no any i rescue will not be bred, they will be able to live out the rest of their lives with me, happily i hope



B3rnie said:


> Lets make this clear as you seem to be struggling.... *Before* this thread, *during * your time on PF I have offered advice and talked through things with you.... YOU then became rude......
> 
> My first reply to this thread was *not* rude, it was my opinion based on *my* experience of talking with you in the past..
> 
> You can't be rude to people and then expect them to fall over themselves to give you advice


i'll say again ive not been rude to anyone who has not been rude to me

do feel free to provide proof though if you disagree


----------



## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> *when i get snotty replies about things nothing to do with the topic then yes im going to get defensive, when i ask questions as im willing to learn and i get snotty replies such as 'you should already know this' or 'go away and learn it' then yes im going to get defensive*
> 
> none of the ones i have as they are all pet shop hams, i will be getting two from a proper recommended breeder
> 
> ...


I can't see anywhere where you have been given these 'snotty' replies. You have been clearly thinking of breeding pet shop bought hammies. People have told you that to breed there is an awful lot to learn, more than they can tell you about in a thread. The only way to get to know it is to go and learn and ask about from breeders, research, books, etc before even thinking of who/what you may breed.

That is not being snotty tink, and I really hope I never came across as snotty, it's just facts and good advice x


----------



## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i'll say again ive not been rude to anyone who has not been rude to me
> 
> do feel free to provide proof though if you disagree


No matter how many times you say it, doesn't make it true... 
Nor do I need to provide proof, your tone says it all :thumbup:


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> I can't see anywhere where you have been given these 'snotty' replies. You have been clearly thinking of breeding pet shop bought hammies. People have told you that to breed there is an awful lot to learn, more than they can tell you about in a thread. The only way to get to know it is to go and learn and ask about from breeders, research, books, etc before even thinking of who/what you may breed.
> 
> That is not being snotty tink, and I really hope I never came across as snotty, it's just facts and good advice x


ive had the 'you should know this' multiple times in this thread

for instance i should know if a hamster is in heat as ive bred before even though this hamster is different to the other two

no one even gave me any starting points, IE good books to get, good sites to look on etc

people here arent willing to help when it comes to breeding and i know its because they do not like breeding on here which is why im going to find a proper breeding forum



B3rnie said:


> No matter how many times you say it, doesn't make it true...
> Nor do I need to provide proof, your tone says it all :thumbup:


i stick by what i said


----------



## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

Are you getting them from diff breeders? 
DEf make sure there not related


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

grapes said:


> Are you getting them from diff breeders?
> DEf make sure there not related


i will get them from the same breeder if they arent related, if the litters they have are related then i will use different breeders


----------



## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> ive had the 'you should know this' multiple times in this thread
> 
> for instance i should know if a hamster is in heat as ive bred before even though this hamster is different to the other two
> 
> ...





tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i will breed the hamsters as i know a lot about hamster breeding


But you know it all surely :confused1:

And no, the reasons you have a hard time is because this isn't the first time we have had to go through the reason why you shouldn't breed pet shop animals... Why offer advice when you know the exact same question will be posed in a few months time?

You have bred before yet you have no knowledge on genetics, you seemed to have gained no more knowledge since the last time genetics were bought up.

You go from breeding hamsters to wanting to breed mice and then you want to rescue but as one rescue turns you down (for valid reasons) you throw your hands up and decide you will breed hamsters again...

You seem to mistake valid answers and concerns for being rude, that is why people don't tend to want to put a hand out to help...you can only get bitten so many times before you stop putting yourself in that position..

On that note I'm out....


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> But you know it all surely :confused1:
> 
> And no, the reasons you have a hard time is because this isn't the first time we have had to go through the reason why you shouldn't breed pet shop animals... Why offer advice when you know the exact same question will be posed in a few months time?
> 
> ...


oh never mind, did type something but deleted it, not worth it

i never claimed to know it all


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Well actually people did answer your question. You came on wanting to know about breeding an existing pet. Your answer was clear. Don't. Stop at this point, and go and do research first. If you are at the point of considering breeding, a fact is, you should know this. It's only people trying to point out that you are rushing ahead. You don't know what you need to know. So find out first. That isn't mean, rude or snotty tinks. It's sound advice.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

halfeatenapple said:


> Well actually people did answer your question. You came on wanting to know about breeding an existing pet. Your answer was clear. Don't. Stop at this point, and go and do research first. If you are at the point of considering breeding, a fact is, you should know this. It's only people trying to point out that you are rushing ahead. You don't know what you need to know. So find out first. That isn't mean, rude or snotty tinks. It's sound advice.


its rude to bring up my finances, rude to bring up my disability, its lolable to say i should learn things then not be willing to help me learn

its ok though, i know people on here hate breeding so they wouldnt be willing to help which is why like i say im going to find a proper breeding forum


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

Random and off topic, but is everyone aware they can add people to their ignore list? Saves anyone reading or being annoyed by people they can't stand. I come on some days to some blank threads, it's amazing how calm I feel after seeing them compared to the way I felt before :wink5:

Tinks, will you be breeding this year? I know you were worried about finding some one to look after your hamsters if you decided to go to France for your friends wedding next year. I wouldn't want you to breed now and then have to worry about all those extra cages if you don't already have something sorted out


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I find this thread very strange and feel sorry for any babies born, sorry if you where a proper breeder you would of understood the heat cycle of the animal you wish to breed. I am speachless.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> Random and off topic, but is everyone aware they can add people to their ignore list? Saves anyone reading or being annoyed by people they can't stand. I come on some days to some blank threads, it's amazing how calm I feel after seeing them compared to the way I felt before :wink5:
> 
> Tinks, will you be breeding this year? I know you were worried about finding some one to look after your hamsters if you decided to go to France for your friends wedding next year. I wouldn't want you to breed now and then have to worry about all those extra cages if you don't already have something sorted out


i will be breeding this year yes

we arent going to france, we will be going away but will have someone that can come and check on the hamsters


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> I find this thread very strange and feel sorry for any babies born, sorry if you where a proper breeder you would of understood the heat cycle of the animal you wish to breed. I am speachless.


 ........


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> ........


such a good reply, I feel sorry for them if thats how you act when people are genuinely shocked. You could of easily googled this, but you have shown how very little understanding you have.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> such a good reply, I feel sorry for them if thats how you act when people are genuinely shocked. You could of easily googled this, but you have shown how very little understanding you have.


i did google it


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i did google it


Didn't do a good job then did you???


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> ........


DKDream is an excellent breeder of another animal Tinks, he is right though that information like that are all things that you should know in detail so that you can help and look after your pets better for when you do breed. There are a lot of people who spend a huge proportion of their life researching these things so that they know what they are getting into. People are only suggesting it for your and your hamsters benefit - doing all this research before hand will enable you to ensure that you do get the healthy baby hamsters that you want, and not ones that are potentially hiding something lethal that might not kill them but could kill all their babies. A breeder forum would be fab for you so that you can find out these things before hand and make the right decisions


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> Didn't do a good job then did you???


                 



zany_toon said:


> DKDream is an excellent breeder of another animal Tinks, he is right though that information like that are all things that you should know in detail so that you can help and look after your pets better for when you do breed. There are a lot of people who spend a huge proportion of their life researching these things so that they know what they are getting into. People are only suggesting it for your and your hamsters benefit - doing all this research before hand will enable you to ensure that you do get the healthy baby hamsters that you want, and not ones that are potentially hiding something lethal that might not kill them but could kill all their babies. A breeder forum would be fab for you so that you can find out these things before hand and make the right decisions


yes a breeding forum is definitely the best place for me, at least i will get answers not snotty replies, although some have been very nice here but its obvious most people on this forum are more about rescuing than breedng


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


>


Maybe one day you will grow up and stop being immature when people are genuinely worried.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> Maybe one day you will grow up and stop being immature when people are genuinely worried.


maybe one day you will stop being nasty and snotty and help people when they want to learn


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> maybe one day you will stop being nasty and snotty and help people when they want to learn


I would of helped you if you didnt start the sarcastic smileys. I actually have bred hamsters in the past and understand the breeding process but seeing as you choose to be immature I wont help. I was genuinely shocked seeing as most books talk about breeding of hamsters.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

learning would involve listening to others points whether you like them or not and not getting so butt hurt when you dont like what they have to say. 

do you never actually wonder why people never give you the advice you want? its because you get defensive and rude if you dont like what you hear, i cant remember the time you were ever actually nice to anyone on a thread. and you dont listen to the advice anyway. 

people are so fed up of the drama that noone will be reading your threads soon as they would have all blocked you. then noone will give you the advice you so desprately want. pull back on the attitude and people might actually want to help you.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> I would of helped you if you didnt start the sarcastic smileys. I actually have bred hamsters in the past and understand the breeding process but seeing as you choose to be immature I wont help. I was genuinely shocked seeing as most books talk about breeding of hamsters.


the books i have dont go into that much detail of hamster breeding

and it was you who started with the roll eyes smilie!


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> learning would involve listening to others points whether you like them or not and not getting so butt hurt when you dont like what they have to say.
> 
> do you never actually wonder why people never give you the advice you want? its because you get defensive and rude if you dont like what you hear, i cant remember the time you were ever actually nice to anyone on a thread. and you dont listen to the advice anyway.
> 
> people are so fed up of the drama that noone will be reading your threads soon as they would have all blocked you. then noone will give you the advice you so desprately want. pull back on the attitude and people might actually want to help you.


dont bring up things that have nothing to do with you in a snotty way such as my finances


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> dont bring up things that have nothing to do with you in a snotty way such as my finances


you mention your finances and disability in every thread you possibly can then moan when i ask you if you can afford a c section of something goes wrong. people on any breeding forum will ask you that aswell. so please do continue to be rude and obnoxious but it wont get you anywhere.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> the books i have dont go into that much detail of hamster breeding
> 
> and it was you who started with the roll eyes smilie!


hmmm when i look back to my 1st reply I never used any? so I don't think I was.

My advice would be join a hamster breeding forum as some hamsters carry leathal genes, you need to research and learn what colours are safe to mate together.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> you mention your finances and disability in every thread you possibly can then moan when i ask you if you can afford a c section of something goes wrong. people on any breeding forum will ask you that aswell. so please do continue to be rude and obnoxious but it wont get you anywhere.


i wasnt bothered about being asked, it was the 'i highly doubt it' rude ending to your post that i had an issue with


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> hmmm when i look back to my 1st reply I never used any? so I don't think I was.
> 
> My advice would be join a hamster breeding forum as some hamsters carry leathal genes, you need to research and learn what colours are safe to mate together.


thank you

i shall join a hamster breeding forum


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

when you tell people on here for months on end that you have no money, you cant afford heating and until recently you havent been able to afford more than 1 meal a day are you truely surprised people ask you of you have the money put by. it wasnt till after my post that you said you now have the money if a c section was needed. 
because now i can apparently read minds and now know that you have the money needed when all you ever tell people is you have no money.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> when you tell people on here for months on end that you have no money, you cant afford heating and until recently you havent been able to afford more than 1 meal a day are you truely surprised people ask you of you have the money put by. it wasnt till after my post that you said you now have the money if a c section was needed.
> because now i can apparently read minds and now know that you have the money needed when all you ever tell people is you have no money.


that money has been saved for ages for emergencies such as taking my pets to the vet if needed

we have that money because of things like not using heating

maybe next time try not jumping to conclusions and asking without a catty little comment at the end


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

well maybe try being less sarcastic, rude, obnoxious and p*ssing everyone on the forum off and you might get nicer replies. 
if you tell people you have no money then people will assume you have no money. if you dont like the questions people ask you or the answers they give then dont start threads in the first place.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> well maybe try being less sarcastic, rude, obnoxious and p*ssing everyone on the forum off and you might get nicer replies.
> if you tell people you have no money then people will assume you have no money. if you dont like the questions people ask you or the answers they give then dont start threads in the first place.


try not being a hypocrite, you tell me not to be rude but its ok for you to be rude to me

aside from this topic i cant even remember speaking to you

as i said im only rude to those that are rude to me


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

Its laughable that you think this is a personal attack, if i was to of come on here and said i was going to breed my pet shop bunnies it would of caused exactly the same reaction. As you are considering breeding you should of known in the first place that it would be a terrible idea to breed from specimens that have an unknown genetic history, you shouldnt need forum members to tell you this as its pretty much common sense.

on another note please stop playing the victim card about your disability, im truly sorry that you suffer from a disability, i know what its like as i have close relatives with a disability. But there are plenty of members on here that also suffer from disabilities but dont use it every time they cause a reaction where people dont agree with them.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

MrRustyRead said:


> Its laughable that you think this is a personal attack, if i was to of come on here and said i was going to breed my pet shop bunnies it would of caused exactly the same reaction. As you are considering breeding you should of known in the first place that it would be a terrible idea to breed from specimens that have an unknown genetic history, you shouldnt need forum members to tell you this as its pretty much common sense.
> 
> on another note please stop playing the victim card about your disability, im truly sorry that you suffer from a disability, i know what its like as i have close relatives with a disability. But there are plenty of members on here that also suffer from disabilities but dont use it every time they cause a reaction where people dont agree with them.


im not using my disability, in actual fact i wasnt even the first one to bring it up, someone else did

as for your first point, it was said pages ago i am not breeding off the pet shop hamsters yet people keep bringing it up


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

i have spoken to you plenty of times. you just dont remember me because you cant keep track of the people you are rude too. 
not everyone you reply to is rude, yet all replies from you are rude. 

listen to me carefully.... if you want advice on any subject try not to be so rude when you reply to people trying to give you that advice. 
dkdream has bred hamsters before and was willing to help you, now i highly doubt they will because once again your attitude got in the way. 

and you may think i being rude, but noone has blocked me on this thread today, or ever on the site for that matter, whereas i know of 2 people atleast who have blocked you from this thread alone. you will have noone to talk to next, so joining a breeding forum would be good, until you get butthurt with them aswell. 
change your attitude and then others will change theirs for you. because i was considering helping you research, but i just hate your attitude and now i cant be bothered.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> im not using my disability, in actual fact i wasnt even the first one to bring it up, someone else did
> 
> as for your first point, it was said pages ago i am not breeding off the pet shop hamsters yet people keep bringing it up


Please re-read my post as you seem to be misinterpreting what it said.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> i have spoken to you plenty of times. you just dont remember me because you cant keep track of the people you are rude too.
> not everyone you reply to is rude, yet all replies from you are rude.
> 
> listen to me carefully.... if you want advice on any subject try not to be so rude when you reply to people trying to give you that advice.
> ...


ive had people be rude to me all over this site, about my opinion, my living situation, my disability, my partner etc

anyway thats by the by

not all replies from me are rude, the first person i quoted in this topic (wobbles) i was actually nice to, why? because she was nice to me, she answered my question and wasnt rude and ive thanked others who havent been rude too


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Oh my isnt it always someone elses fault 
Someone elses fault you can sit on your lazy bum and read up hammie genetics.:mad2:
Someone elses fault they wont sell you a breeder hamster:mad2:
Someone elses fault no one is willing to help you :mad2:
Someone elses fault your rude :mad2:
Someone elses fault someone elses fault someone elses fault!

You want to breed but you cant/wont go collect your stock..lazy!
You wont read up on genetics..lazy!

Show a passion to do it you might get somewhere.Im not surprised breeders wont let you touch a hammie from them you dont have the knowledge.

Wasting my breath no doubt.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> ive had people be rude to me all over this site, about my opinion, my living situation, my disability, my partner etc
> 
> anyway thats by the by
> 
> not all replies from me are rude, the first person i quoted in this topic (wobbles) i was actually nice to, why? because she was nice to me, she answered my question and wasnt rude


just because you dont agree with what someone says dosent mean they are rude. 
others answered your questions, you just didnt like their opinions or advice on the matter. 
until you can find a good breeder who will consider giving you 2 breeding worthy hamsters (some breeders wont give you them), they are the right age for breeding and then you actually have the litter, i would ask you to research everything. you have to know your types, what breed can go with another. some cant go together as they cause deformities. you need to know the proper setup, the best foods for the mother and the babies when born. 
until you have found the perfect pair of hamsters just keep researching, soon you wont have to ask the forum what you need to do and how to know if a hammie is in heat.

i plan on breeding some of my boys, they are breeder bred, but i havent the room for 15 babies atm, so i cant, in the mean time i research.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> Oh my isnt it always someone elses fault


no



> Someone elses fault you can sit on your lazy bum and read up hammie genetics.:mad2:


no



> Someone elses fault they wont sell you a breeder hamster:mad2:


no

and oh dear you cant read cant you, i never said they wouldnt, i said i was told by someone on here they wouldnt which i have since been told by someone lovely that its not true

[/quote]You want to breed but you cant/wont go collect your stock..lazy!
You wont read up on genetics..lazy![/quote]

no


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> until you can find a good breeder who will consider giving you 2 breeding worthy hamsters (some breeders wont give you them), they are the right age for breeding and then you actually have the litter, i would ask you to research everything. you have to know your types, what breed can go with another. some cant go together as they cause deformities. you need to know the proper setup, the best foods for the mother and the babies when born.
> until you have found the perfect pair of hamsters just keep researching, soon you wont have to ask the forum what you need to do and how to know if a hammie is in heat.
> 
> i plan on breeding some of my boys, they are breeder bred, but i havent the room for 15 babies atm, so i cant, in the mean time i research.


thank you

are there any good books/sites you know of? its not that i dont know anything about breeding hamsters, its just that i dont know it all

good luck when you breed your boys


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> maybe one day you will stop being nasty and snotty and help people when they want to learn


My goodness tinks you do seem to bring out the worst in people. I will tell you one thing . Dkdream is a well thought of and respected member and someone I ask advice of with regards to my ferrets. I really don't appreciate you calling him nasty when he is anything but. I don't care if you want to breed naked mole rats tbh, but you will not insult a decent human being.
Please can a mod close this thread.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

..........


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> thank you
> 
> are there any good books/sites you know of? its not that i dont know anything about breeding hamsters, its just that i dont know it all
> 
> good luck when you breed your boys


rats are totally different to hammies. i have a male siberian but i would have no idea where to start. rats are another story, when you've owned 62 you get to know them better. there are hamster forums about, just type it into google and i expect loads would pop up. try finding one for hamsters like the nrfs is to rats.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

You are clearly a strong headed person Tink (as am I  ) but on a forum when you are giving blunt opinion (as I see you like these debating topics from your post history - again - me too!) you have to be a little softer about it than you would in person. Text is harsh and comes across as such. If you go on to breeding forums, make sure to be soft with everyone, rude or not, you will get better results that way.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> rats are totally different to hammies. i have a male siberian but i would have no idea where to start. rats are another story, when you've owned 62 you get to know them better. there are hamster forums about, just type it into google and i expect loads would pop up. try finding one for hamsters like the nrfs is to rats.


thank you again

62 ratties!? 

how many do you have now?


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> thank you again
> 
> 62 ratties!?
> 
> how many do you have now?


i currently own 27 males. a mixture of pet shop, rescue and breeder bred.



halfeatenapple said:


> You are clearly a strong headed person Tink (as am I  ) but on a forum when you are giving blunt opinion (as I see you like these debating topics from your post history - again - me too!) you have to be a little softer about it than you would in person. Text is harsh and comes across as such. If you go on to breeding forums, make sure to be soft with everyone, rude or not, you will get better results that way.


this is all well and good but when people come on here to purposely wind others up just to get a reaction, why should they be nice.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

CRL said:


> i currently own 27 males. a mixture of pet shop, rescue and breeder bred.
> 
> this is all well and good but when people come on here to purposely wind others up just to get a reaction, why should they be nice.


You shouldn't have to be, but if you are looking for info like tink is, she would be better off being nice to everyone, therefore getting better answers from people who are genuine and ignoring others who are not if you see what I mean? If tink feels people are being unnecessarily rude to her then her best bet would be to ignore it you know?


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

halfeatenapple said:


> You shouldn't have to be, but if you are looking for info like tink is, she would be better off being nice to everyone, therefore getting better answers from people who are genuine and ignoring others who are not if you see what I mean? If tink feels people are being unnecessarily rude to her then her best bet would be to ignore it you know?


better said than done. if people gang up on you every time you post you would be ignoring everyone on the forum. 
i do understand what you mean when you say ignore it but sometimes you just cant and you have to reply. but then again i have no will power, its why i got banned from another forum :aureola:


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Hahaha, well she deffo doesn't want that!!


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

halfeatenapple said:


> Hahaha, well she deffo doesn't want that!!


i blame the ginger hair. it made me do it :devil:


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> i currently own 27 males. a mixture of pet shop, rescue and breeder bred.
> 
> this is all well and good but when people come on here to purposely wind others up just to get a reaction, why should they be nice.


aww wow thats quite a few lol bet they are all lovely


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