# Joint supplements



## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

So, had a chat with a few of the joint supplement stands at Crufts today, which, to be honest made me more confused. I would like to get my pair onto something, they are both young but we do agility so I thought using a supplement as a preventative would be a good idea.

The two products I am leaning towards are Yumove by Lintbells, and Joint Daily by Riaflex. Does anyone have any experience of either of these?

The Joint Daily has an ingredient called MSM, which I've not heard of before, not sure if its of any use.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

save your money. You will hear lots of anecdotes about how they helped particular dogs, but there is absolutly _no convincing evidence _that they do anything to help joints.

They are expensive and unproven. Feed a good quality food, exercise sensibly and don't let them get overweight. These things ahve been proven to affect joint health-none of these suppliments have _convincingly_ been shown to help


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Both products contain glucosamine, a product which has massively helped both my husband and father, both who suffered from mild knee problems. Hubby now only takes cod liver oil tablets, but it was the glucosamine that helped initially.

My dogs are raw fed, so I'm happy with their general diet, but I don't have a problem adding a supplement if it may help in the future. As far as I'm aware, none of the products I've looked at do any harm, so at worst would make no difference. And I didn't think the prices offered were too unreasonable.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

you are perfectly free to feed your dogs suppliments if you choose, but shouldn't you ask yourself that if they are so wonderul why don't rheumatologists prescribe them for arthritis.

You won't find any rhumatologist who will.

complete waste of money.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Jazmine said:


> Both products contain glucosamine, a product which has massively helped both my husband and father, both who suffered from mild knee problems. Hubby now only takes cod liver oil tablets, but it was the glucosamine that helped initially.
> 
> My dogs are raw fed, so I'm happy with their general diet, but I don't have a problem adding a supplement if it may help in the future. As far as I'm aware, none of the products I've looked at do any harm, so at worst would make no difference. And I didn't think the prices offered were too unreasonable.


If you raw feed your dogs will be getting plenty of glucosamine and chondroitin from their diet. Chicken carcasses / backs etc are a good source.


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Considering my Dad only decided on take glucosamine on a doctor's recommendation, his own GP, isn't that worth something? You can't always ignore anecdotal evidence, even if the science hasn't been able to explain it yet.

I appreciate your input, but it would be nice if you didn't keep telling me to stop wasting my money. While perhaps these supplements will have no effect, there's no harm in feeding them either, if it gives me extra peace of mind, then I don't view it as a waste of money.

No problem if you don't agree, but no need to be quite so blunt about it thanks. I know there are many people on here who do feed supplements, so I thought it was worth seeing who takes what.


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## jesterjenn (Apr 1, 2009)

I give supplements to both of mine.

For Harley (3yo GSD) I give a combined Glucosamin, Chondroitin and MSM pill. This is as a preventative, so is a low dose.

For Jess (7yo GSD) who has hip problems, I give a combined high strength Glucosamin, Chondroitin & MSM pill, a DEvils Claw pill and a Green Lipped Mussel pill too.

They both also get daily salmon oil (they're fed raw, but Jess won't touch raw fish, and Harley is intollerant), with daily EPO to counteract the depletion of Vit E from Salmon Oil.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I have severe arthritis in my right knee and I am on prescribed medication to help the pain and inflammation. My consultant has recommended taking things like glucosamine in order to try and reduce my meds. I have hit on a combination that is enabling me to reduce my meds and am now taking on an if and when basis rather then three a day as prescribed.
That's me. One of my dogs had severe arthritis in her spine which badly affected her hind legs. When she was 11 years she was so bad that we were seriously considering having her pts. As a last resort I tried a magnetic collar. The change in her was startling and for a further year she was almost back to normal, but then began to deteriorate again, so then added Cortaflex to her food. Again great results. She was never going to be galloping around without a care in the world again, but her quality of life was considerably improved and gave her another eighteen months. It does appear to work, I'm sure Tora didn't think, oh this powder in my food is going to make me move better. Not a coincidence either, as nothing else changed.


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## sbonnett76 (Apr 6, 2010)

I put a tablespoon of Super Solvitax cod liver oil into my rottie's evening meal as a preventative measure because the breed can be prone to joint problems.

My only advice would be to shop around and not get too hung up on a brand name. I used to be obsessed and assumed that if it wasn't the most expensive product available then it clearly wouldn't work! I've learnt the hard way and a lot of cheaper, more basic products contain much the same ingredient.

Actually, my sister in law who owns a riding stables swapped cod liver oil for vegetable oil as it did the exact same job at a fraction of the cost!!


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Jazmine said:


> So, had a chat with a few of the joint supplement stands at Crufts today, which, to be honest made me more confused. I would like to get my pair onto something, they are both young but we do agility so I thought using a supplement as a preventative would be a good idea.
> 
> The two products I am leaning towards are Yumove by Lintbells, and Joint Daily by Riaflex. Does anyone have any experience of either of these?
> 
> The Joint Daily has an ingredient called MSM, which I've not heard of before, not sure if its of any use.


I have used Yumove for Working Dogs for quite some time.

Having attended several seminars featuring sports vets, physiotherapists, chiropractics, osteopaths and massage therapists I can tell you the following.

the only supplement which has sound peer reviewed evidence for its benefit to joints is Fish Body Oil (not Cod Liver Oil) that is because it contains Omega 3s in a bio available form to the dog.

Other plant based oils which are rich in Omega 3s are less efficient than FBO because the dog has to convert the ALA it contains into DHA/EPA.

This is not done very well and so you would have to feed more of say flax seed oil (linseed) than you would FBO.

CLO is not recommended as it does not contian the same level of Omega 3 and also because it contains the fat soluble vitamins A and D which can result in problems in excess.

That is not to say chondroprotective supplements such as glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM are worthless as many people have reported improvements in both themselves and their animals after using.

The advantage such supplements have over food sources of course is that they contain standardised extracts and so the dosage never varies.

Giving something like YUMOVE cannot really do any harm (except in rare cases in a diabetic dog) however the current thinking is that giving them to a younger dog rather than waiting for aging to impact on movement may be a better investment.

HTH


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> I have used Yumove for Working Dogs for quite some time.
> 
> Having attended several seminars featuring sports vets, physiotherapists, chiropractics, osteopaths and massage therapists I can tell you the following.
> 
> ...


Thanks, it was the working dogs one that I was looking at going for. Scout is 3 next month, Mira is 19 months so thought now would be a good time to start. They also both get FBO, which, if nothing else, has had a great impact on their coats.


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Dogless said:


> If you raw feed your dogs will be getting plenty of glucosamine and chondroitin from their diet. Chicken carcasses / backs etc are a good source.


Thanks, didn't know that! I realise I am probably being a bit of a worrier, but I'd hate for them to get joint issues because of agility. I used to go road running with them but have switched to off road, as I started worrying about the impact.


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Siskin said:


> I have severe arthritis in my right knee and I am on prescribed medication to help the pain and inflammation. My consultant has recommended taking things like glucosamine in order to try and reduce my meds. I have hit on a combination that is enabling me to reduce my meds and am now taking on an if and when basis rather then three a day as prescribed.
> That's me. One of my dogs had severe arthritis in her spine which badly affected her hind legs. When she was 11 years she was so bad that we were seriously considering having her pts. As a last resort I tried a magnetic collar. The change in her was startling and for a further year she was almost back to normal, but then began to deteriorate again, so then added Cortaflex to her food. Again great results. She was never going to be galloping around without a care in the world again, but her quality of life was considerably improved and gave her another eighteen months. It does appear to work, I'm sure Tora didn't think, oh this powder in my food is going to make me move better. Not a coincidence either, as nothing else changed.


My Dad was told he needed surgery on his knee but the glucosamine has improved things enough so that surgery can be delayed, its not scientific but proof enough for me that it must be doing something!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Jazmine said:


> Thanks, didn't know that! I realise I am probably being a bit of a worrier, but I'd hate for them to get joint issues because of agility. I used to go road running with them but have switched to off road, as I started worrying about the impact.


No, it's totally understandable. I try and run Kilo on surfaces that won't impact upon his joints too much.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> you are perfectly free to feed your dogs suppliments if you choose, but shouldn't you ask yourself that if they are so wonderul why don't rheumatologists prescribe them for arthritis.
> 
> You won't find any rhumatologist who will.
> 
> complete waste of money.


Sometimes the medical profession just prescribe meds, but a lot of people do their own research and reading the reviews, people who have bad pain started taking them themselves and their pain got better too.

Alfie has yumove as he is very active and boisterous in play, so I use it as a preventative. He loves it and eats it from my hand.

It can't do any harm but only good imo.


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## nickmcmechan (Aug 1, 2009)

Old Shep said:


> save your money. You will hear lots of anecdotes about how they helped particular dogs, but there is absolutly _no convincing evidence _that they do anything to help joints.
> 
> They are expensive and unproven. Feed a good quality food, exercise sensibly and don't let them get overweight. These things ahve been proven to affect joint health-none of these suppliments have _convincingly_ been shown to help





Old Shep said:


> you are perfectly free to feed your dogs suppliments if you choose, but shouldn't you ask yourself that if they are so wonderul why don't rheumatologists prescribe them for arthritis.
> 
> You won't find any rhumatologist who will.
> 
> complete waste of money.


Sorry, but I have to say you are quite wrong in your assertions.

Glucosamine is clinically proven to work for Dogs and there are licensed products. The same is true for humans, although many GPs will not prescribe due to the expense.

I have found a canine physiotherapist who recommends its use. The person is fully qualified.

Where did you find the evidence that they do not work?


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## nickmcmechan (Aug 1, 2009)

Here is the clinical evidence that Glucosamine is effective.

http://www.lamsam-casalotti.org.uk/Journal Club/pdf files/20120606Michael.pdf


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## nickmcmechan (Aug 1, 2009)

Jazmine said:


> So, had a chat with a few of the joint supplement stands at Crufts today, which, to be honest made me more confused. I would like to get my pair onto something, they are both young but we do agility so I thought using a supplement as a preventative would be a good idea.
> 
> The two products I am leaning towards are Yumove by Lintbells, and Joint Daily by Riaflex. Does anyone have any experience of either of these?
> 
> The Joint Daily has an ingredient called MSM, which I've not heard of before, not sure if its of any use.


My Lab X was diagnosed with Hip Arthritis nearly two years ago. At that time she was becoming a little stiff and this trend was increasing.

Nowadays she often runs about like a pup, but she has her limits and can't run as fast as she used to. I supplement Yumove Working and it's one of the things that has helped. I only need administer Metacam about once a month on average and her HA is quite severe.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Old Shep said:


> you are perfectly free to feed your dogs suppliments if you choose, but shouldn't you ask yourself that if they are so wonderul why don't rheumatologists prescribe them for arthritis.
> 
> You won't find any rhumatologist who will.
> 
> complete waste of money.


That could be because rheumatologists deal with rheumatoid arthritis, not osteo. Glucosamine is for osteoarthritis.

A friend of mine has glucosamine on a list of remedies for arthritis as printed off by her GP. The orthopedic surgeon who operated on my knee recommended it too.


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Sometimes the medical profession just prescribe meds, but a lot of people do their own research and reading the reviews, people who have bad pain started taking them themselves and their pain got better too.
> 
> Alfie has yumove as he is very active and boisterous in play, so I use it as a preventative. He loves it and eats it from my hand.
> 
> It can't do any harm but only good imo.


I went with Yumove Working dog in the end. As you said, it won't do any harm. Much rather start it now as a preventative rather than wait until problems start to show themselves before I do anything about it. I want my pair to be able to run and jump for many years to come yet!


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

nickmcmechan said:


> Sorry, but I have to say you are quite wrong in your assertions.
> 
> Glucosamine is clinically proven to work for Dogs and there are licensed products. The same is true for humans, although many GPs will not prescribe due to the expense.
> 
> ...


you are completely wrong and if someone told you that there is consistant, good scientific evidence thath they perform better than placebo, then they are being untruthful.

It is not up to me to prove to you that there is no evidence of fairies at the bottom of the garden, it's up to those who assert they exist to prove this.

I could link to many. many peer-reviewed RCTs which prove they do not work (as I have, amy times in the past) but very few people on this forum like to read what does not agree with their "opinions". So I will ot go to the bother of re-posting these links.

HOWEVER, if you would be seriously interested in reading them, I can PM then to you.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

nickmcmechan said:


> Here is the clinical evidence that Glucosamine is effective.
> 
> http://www.lamsam-casalotti.org.uk/Journal Club/pdf files/20120606Michael.pdf


did you actually _read_ that study?!

Appart from the fact that it has not been replicated, it is hardly a ringing endorsement, is it?


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

Burrowzig said:


> That could be because rheumatologists deal with rheumatoid arthritis, not osteo. Glucosamine is for osteoarthritis.
> 
> A friend of mine has glucosamine on a list of remedies for arthritis as printed off by her GP. The orthopedic surgeon who operated on my knee recommended it too.


...er...no. Rheumatologists do NOT deal only with RA (sheesh! check your facts)

If your orthopoedic surgeon and GP have recommended treatments which are not evidence based they can be reported to the GMC. Glucosamine falls into this category.


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Old Shep said:


> ...er...no. Rheumatologists do NOT deal only with RA (sheesh! check your facts)
> 
> If your orthopoedic surgeon and GP have recommended treatments which are not evidence based they can be reported to the GMC. Glucosamine falls into this category.


So should I also report my father for the improvement in his knee? I am not just talking a mild improvement that could be discounted as a placebo. I am talking about it going from him needing surgery on his knee imminently, to him now being told, after a few months taking glucosamine, that he may not need surgery for a good while yet. He has gone from barely being able to walk around the supermarket, to regular walks around the park with no pain.

You can scoff all you like, but sometimes science has not yet caught up or had the chance to explain the effects of certain substances. It takes a very narrow mind to discount them in the meantime.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

you clearly do not understand the placebo effect. Try reading a bit about it.

correlation does not equal causation (basic rule of medicine).

I think you have misunderstood the meaning of a "narrow mind".

I base my views on the most up to date evidence available DESPITE what I may have previously thought. I have changed my views on some things because of what I have read (and there are people on this forum who know this).

Narrow mindedness is choosing to ignore the evidence because it contradicts your previously held beliefs.

The vast majority of the peopel responding to these threads are totally narrow minded and will ignore any and all evidence which shows what they believe to be untrue. They just cannot contemplate they are wrong. The3y don't even read the links which show this.

If anyone here can SHOW me well conducted, RCTs or meta analysis which show conclusively that these things work, I am willing to change my mind.
I cannot say the same for them.

* The constant refrain I hear when I show links to such evidence is "you can believe what you like and so can I". That is the very definition of narrow mindedness.*


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Glucosamine | Arthritis Research UK

  

Glucosamine sulphate trials for osteoarthritis | Arthritis Research UK

  

Glucosamine move over

  

In praise of... NHS Evidence

http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/...mplementary-medicines-for-osteoarthritis.aspx


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

The placebo effect cannot work on dogs. I have a great understanding of it and have studied it in depth.

It works based on a conscious awareness of taking a drug and the effect a drug should have. A dog cannot be told the desired effect of a pill.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> The placebo effect cannot work on dogs. I have a great understanding of it and have studied it in depth.
> 
> It works based on a conscious awareness of taking a drug and the effect a drug should have. A dog cannot be told the desired effect of a pill.


Yes but could it work on the owners perception of the dogs improvement?


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

systematic reviews are accepted as the gold Standard in scientific evidence.

Effects of glucosamine, chondroitin, or placebo in patients with osteoarthritis of hip or knee: network meta-analysis | BMJ

Glucosamine/Chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Trial (GAIT) | NCCAM

the best run trial show no difference between placebo and glucosamine

(I've yet to read your links Rona, but I will. Thank you)


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

rona said:


> Yes but could it work on the owners perception of the dogs improvement?


Its not really the same thing as it involves the person who takes it and their body, I believe.

Obviously a dog who couldn't stand up and then could is not in the owners head.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Its not really the same thing as it involves the person who takes it and their body, I believe.
> 
> Obviously a dog who couldn't stand up and then could is not in the owners head.


placebos can work on animals if the data being collected is subjective (ie. asking the vet or the owner to report how the dog has been), but does not work when the data is objective (like blood analysis, MRI scans).

Most animal trials involve some subjective data collection.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> Its not really the same thing as it involves the person who takes it and their body, I believe.
> 
> Obviously a dog who couldn't stand up and then could is not in the owners head.


But how would the owner be sure of what had had that effect?

My friend and I have tried several of these alternative therapies on our dogs (both osteoarthritis)and not one has had any beneficial effects.  

Wish they had!

My friends dog however had recently shown a massive improvement. He is having no treatment of any kind at the moment.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Old Shep, I find it odd you should want to attack someone who is doing all they can to provide their dog with the best care possible and to give them a hopefully pain free and long life. Have a look around the forums, there are people using their dogs as breeding machines and treating them far worse then providing them with vitamins. 
There are others who abandon an older dog for a new puppy or just get bored and get rid of a dog. Maybe call them names before you attack those who just want to give their dogs a supplement that cannot harm them.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> systematic reviews are accepted as the gold Standard in scientific evidence.
> 
> Effects of glucosamine, chondroitin, or placebo in patients with osteoarthritis of hip or knee: network meta-analysis | BMJ
> 
> ...


Old Shep

In one of your links it said
"However, a smaller subgroup of study participants with moderate-to-severe pain showed significant relief with the combined supplements"

So there may be a small minority that have significant enough relief to make trying these worthwhile


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Old Shep, I find it odd you should want to attack someone who is doing all they can to provide their dog with the best care possible and to give them a hopefully pain free and long life. Have a look around the forums, there are people using their dogs as breeding machines and treating them far worse then providing them with vitamins.
> There are others who abandon an older dog for a new puppy or just get bored and get rid of a dog. Maybe call them names before you attack those who just want to give their dogs a supplement that cannot harm them.


?????

who's talking about breeding?
or abandoning dogs?

I thought we were discussing the efficacy of nutritional suppliments for arthritis? Which, as you will see from the links posted, have been shown, in good RCTs to be no better than placebo. Though I don't expect anyone here to actually READ the evidence provided. Instead they just slink away without commenting.

You ask me to justify my view? There are better ways of spending your money and time on your arthritic dog, than wasting it on suppliments which don't work. You don't think it's worth stating that? Come on!!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> ?????
> 
> who's talking about breeding?
> or abandoning dogs?
> ...


I did :001_tt2: :biggrin:


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

rona said:


> Old Shep
> 
> In one of your links it said
> "However, a smaller subgroup of study participants with moderate-to-severe pain showed significant relief with the combined supplements"
> ...


yes. there have been some anomolous results, as there often are. The people who conducted the study freely admitted that the numbers were too small to claim statistical significance. That's why it's important to look at systematic reviews. I've yet to find one which stated conclusivly that glucosamine has benifits beyond placebo.

However, theer is also o evidence that it causes any harm (except to your pocket!) as far as I know (I haven't looked that closely), so nif folks want to waste their money they can. I'd rather spend it on something which has better evidence behind it


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

seems it may not be as innocuous as I first thought.

Oral glucosamine in doses used to treat osteoar... [Am J Med Sci. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

Glucosamine induces insulin resistance in vivo by affecting GLUT 4 translocation in skeletal muscle. Implications for glucose toxicity.

Activation of the hexosamine pathway by glucosamine in vivo induces insulin resistance of early postreceptor insulin signaling events in skeletal muscle.

although these trial are in vivo, I wouldn't take the risk at this stage. Especially as it's value as a treatment is questionable, to say the least.


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## MIG (Mar 23, 2013)

look at MUSSELS4MOBILITY -- Migflex C&D used it on my lab -superb


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> Old Shep, I find it odd you should want to attack someone who is doing all they can to provide their dog with the best care possible and to give them a hopefully pain free and long life. Have a look around the forums, there are people using their dogs as breeding machines and treating them far worse then providing them with vitamins.
> There are others who abandon an older dog for a new puppy or just get bored and get rid of a dog. Maybe call them names before you attack those who just want to give their dogs a supplement that cannot harm them.


This, 10 times over. I really don't see why someone would feel the need to belittle me when I am actually trying to do the best for my dogs. If they don't make any difference, then so be it, if I don't mind spending the money, then what's the problem?

Old Shep, I specifically set up this thread to ask people who DID feed supplements what they recommended. If you find the fact that I want to feed them so offensive, then why bother responding to the post? I didn't ask SHOULD I feed supplements, so why you felt the need to jump in deriding me for my decision is beyond me. You're entitled to your view, but I'm entitled to mine. A little respect would be nice.

And I'm sorry, but anyone who writes something off purely because "science doesn't say so" is indeed narrow minded. If we didn't take a chance on some of these things that have not yet been proven, then science would never advance. Watching my mother subject herself to every new trial available for MS showed me that, as they have now found proof that a certain treatment she trialled almost 20 years ago does indeed improve the condition. Believe it or not, I'm not actually as ill informed as you seem to think.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jazmine said:


> This, 10 times over. I really don't see why someone would feel the need to belittle me when I am actually trying to do the best for my dogs. If they don't make any difference, then so be it, if I don't mind spending the money, then what's the problem?
> 
> Old Shep, I specifically set up this thread to ask people who DID feed supplements what they recommended. If you find the fact that I want to feed them so offensive, then why bother responding to the post? I didn't ask SHOULD I feed supplements, so why you felt the need to jump in deriding me for my decision is beyond me. You're entitled to your view, but I'm entitled to mine. A little respect would be nice.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but anyone who writes something off purely because "science doesn't say so" is indeed narrow minded. If we didn't take a chance on some of these things that have not yet been proven, then science would never advance. Watching my mother subject herself to every new trial available for MS showed me that, as they have now found proof that a certain treatment she trialled almost 20 years ago does indeed improve the condition. Believe it or not, I'm not actually as ill informed as you seem to think.


  

I didn't think Old Shep belittled you at all!!!

They only answered post 16 rather strongly after being told they were wrong, and that post wasn't yours 

Dealing in facts, figures and science rather than anecdotal evidence doesn't make someone bad you know?


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

rona said:


> I didn't think Old Shep belittled you at all!!!
> 
> They only answered post 16 rather strongly after being told they were wrong, and that post wasn't yours
> 
> Dealing in facts, figures and science rather than anecdotal evidence doesn't make someone bad you know?


Posts two and four both told me to stop wasting my money.

And in the same way that believing in science doesn't make someone bad, believing there MAY be something more to the anecdotal evidence you have seen or heard doesn't make you bad either. To be honest, I didn't think the two were mutually exclusive, they certainly aren't for me.

This was just a simple post about which supplement to feed, there was no need to repeatedly tell me to stop wasting my money.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jazmine said:


> Posts two and four both told me to stop wasting my money.
> 
> And in the same way that believing in science doesn't make someone bad, believing there MAY be something more to the anecdotal evidence you have seen or heard doesn't make you bad either. To be honest, I didn't think the two were mutually exclusive, they certainly aren't for me.
> 
> This was just a simple post about which supplement to feed, there was no need to repeatedly tell me to stop wasting my money.


You must be reading something different to me. I thought it was just a personal opinion until they themselves were belittled 

Oh well!!!

We can't all be the same


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

this forum cracks me up!


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Old Shep said:


> this forum cracks me up!


Because you can't bear it when people have an opinion you don't agree with.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

jesterjenn said:


> I give supplements to both of mine.
> 
> For Harley (3yo GSD) I give a combined Glucosamin, Chondroitin and MSM pill. This is as a preventative, so is a low dose.
> 
> For Jess (7yo GSD) who has hip problems, I give a combined high strength Glucosamin, Chondroitin & MSM pill, a DEvils Claw pill and a Green Lipped Mussel pill too.


All of ours have had various combinations of the above at some point. Unfortunately for the older ones, it tended to be something that was started after problems began to occur - but they did still help .... a lot!

Maisie doesn't have any joint problems (*touches wood*) and I've started her on a low dose of Gloucasamine and Green Lipped Mussel (which worked wonders for both Ben and one of our previous Labs Lucy) - hopefully by starting now, and hopefully maintaining her joints, we'll not have as bad problems as some of the others have when she gets older.


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## nickmcmechan (Aug 1, 2009)

Old Shep said:


> you are completely wrong and if someone told you that there is consistant, good scientific evidence thath they perform better than placebo, then they are being untruthful.
> 
> It is not up to me to prove to you that there is no evidence of fairies at the bottom of the garden, it's up to those who assert they exist to prove this.
> 
> ...


So, Glucosamine has a clinical license, therefore it must have had clinical evidence and clinical trials regarding its efficacy

Anecdotally, with the job I work in I hear people tell me all the time how fish oils and glucosamine have improved their lives. I hear it all the time from dog owners about their dogs. I think I'll chose to continue to be 'completely wrong'.

Such a shame, vitamins and supplements are rarely licensed.

The reason for this is that when a pharmaceutical company brings a new drug or variant to market they have it on license for a period of time. During this time they will obviously charge for that drug at a certain price. Then, the drug comes off license and everyone can make it. When this happens the price of the drug drops significantly, and can be as much as a £100 drop sometimes! So, the pharmaceuticals will not pay for clinical trials for drugs that are already out there freely available in the market as they may not recover their costs and make little profit. Glucosamine must be good, it was already out there, but yet clinical trials were performed and it was licensed.


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Anyway... 

Thanks for this thread, I've been wondering about supplements for a while. Ordered some Yumove - for the sake of £30 every four months or so, I'm happy to take the chance that it might work, and help to keep them mobile as they age.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Megan345 said:


> Anyway...
> 
> Thanks for this thread, I've been wondering about supplements for a while. Ordered some Yumove - for the sake of £30 every four months or so, I'm happy to take the chance that it might work, and help to keep them mobile as they age.


Yumove is very highly recommended, harvey has it but ime not sure how effective it is as he is on prescription tabs as well, but his hydrotherapist absolutely swears by it and imagine in her job she sees so many dogs with joint problems. She was saying that a member of the agility classes she runs had to take her dog out of it because of his joint problem and she recommended the owner tried yumove and hes back in the running!!!!. So ime happy for harvey to have it, ime sure its worth you trying it.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Drug companies have to make money and very often bypass what mother nature has already provided. If they can come up with a chemical that mimics it, there's a lot more money to be made.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

nickmcmechan said:


> So, Glucosamine has a clinical license, therefore it must have had clinical evidence and clinical trials regarding its efficacy
> 
> Anecdotally, with the job I work in I hear people tell me all the time how fish oils and glucosamine have improved their lives. I hear it all the time from dog owners about their dogs. I think I'll chose to continue to be 'completely wrong'.
> 
> ...


you know, you guys just show your complete and utter ignorance when you post on here.

Glucosomine *IS NOT LISENCED AS A PHARMACEUTICAL IN THE UK*

it is only registered as a "food supplement"- as you say "supplements are rarely licensed"

Could this perhaps be because of the lack of evidence of efficacy??????

What you have posted here is utter codwallop and *FACTUALLY INCORRECT*

Please check your facts (it's not difficult if you have a few functioning brain calls and a computer) before posting such nonsense.

As I have said before, there are possible dangers with glucosamine and insulin metabolism, so beware what you buy at Holland and Barrat sale and feed to your dog.


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## ch4r1ie (Feb 14, 2013)

I will not enter the debate of whether the supplements work or not. However, I will give my personal opinion from my own experience.

At the beginning of January my pup who is now nearly 10 months old, was diagnosed with elbow dysplasia in one elbow, and hip dysplasia in both hips. He limped badly on his foreleg, and his left hind leg was also slightly lame. After searching online for ANYTHING that MAY help, I decided to try yumove. After starting on the yumove tabs, his limp gradually improved over time, until about a month ago, when his limp had all but vanished. He was like a new dog! However, 2 weeks ago I switched him to human grade glucosamine and chondroitin because I read that they would be just as safe and effective (and kinder on the wallet). His limp has rapidly returned within the past week. Coincidence? Perhaps, but I think not. I have now ordered him 300 more yumove, fairly cheaply from ebay. And once they arrive I will not ever substitute them again. I honestly believe they do work.

If you do decide to try yumove, you can email the company who make them (Lintbells), and they will send you a free sample. Think it's only 30 or 60 tabs, but every little helps


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## ian1969uk (Sep 5, 2010)

I am a great believer in joint supplements for both myself and my dogs.

I had a lot of pain and noise in my knees from years of exercising and lifting weights. I started to take these: Joint Synergex® - The optimum combination of joint health nutrients - Optiflex Glucosamine, Marine Chondroitin, Bromelain, Omega 3 and MSM and have seen a huge improvement. The noise is still there but my knees are now pain free.

For the dogs I use these: Flexi-Joints for Dogs for Healthy Canine Joints | VetVits Pet Health | Developed by Vets and while they are still young dogs, it gives me peace of mind as I believe it will help them as they get older.


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