# They need to learn the rottweiler way, not the dog way



## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

We have two rottweilers, a male and female, and they both know sit and paw, but that is as much as I know(well can should I say) teach them as they are stubborn, well that is a Rottweiler for you, but they wont learn the normal ways. We love both dearly and would like for them to be happily trained, so us and the dogs are happy, but I am having difficulties finding a free online training site/course, as we have little money to buy a book(we are planning to though) and we dont upload to much to the computer so it is still fast. So really, if you own a Rottweiler, I was wondering what you used to train them, any help(even if it is a book or something to upload) will be appreciated, and looked into deeply :biggrin:


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Not sure what you mean by they don't learn the "normal" way  I'm not even sure what the "normal" way is. I know Rotties who have been trained with traditional methods and Rotties who have been clicker trained and ones who haven't had any formal training at all, they've all seemed to learn just fine. 

I like the book Train Your Dog Like A Pro by Jean Donaldson. It has step by step guides to teaching the basics and these steps are easy to apply to more advanced behaviours. It's not full of jargon either so no need for a dictionary to understand it. Also comes with a dvd so you can actually see how she does things rather than just read about it.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

My dog is part rottie and is extremely intelligent  I just went through the motions of get them doing the action/treat, then add a word/treat....my dog has a huge repetoire of words i've taught him and i've only used this method. He knows the basics(sit/lie down/hup(jump up)/down/paw/other/stay/come) to things like bark/speak(make a noise but not a bark) and "get the gate" which is him opening the gate at my parents house.

The best thing you can do to train your dog is be consistant, you'll only confuse the dog if one day he gets praise and treats for doing something but he doesn't get anything the next day...i still use treats to encourage my dog to work


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## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

Rottweiler's need to be trained sternly and a different way to every other dog, we have a book in mind, but it isn't a UK book, it is Rottweiler Savvy by David Lamb, but it will cost to get it into the UK and delievered to us, so we are looking for UK Rottweiler training books or Training guides to help train a Rottweiler on the internet.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Use treats and consistency.

Dont overdo it - a rottie will soon become bored with repitious exercises all the time.

Use a firm voice and use the same words to teach commands.

Find a local class offering the Bronze Good Citizens Course from the Kennel Club. This neednt cost a lot, and will give both you and the dog a good grounding in basic obedience.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Gingergin said:


> Rottweiler's need to be trained sternly and a different way to every other dog, we have a book in mind, but it isn't a UK book, it is Rottweiler Savvy by David Lamb, but it will cost to get it into the UK and delievered to us, so we are looking for UK Rottweiler training books or Training guides to help train a Rottweiler on the internet.


They do not need to trained sternly and in a different way at all!! Who told you that crap???

My dogs get trained same way as everyone else's dog when doing good citizens or anything else. You just need to be consistent and as I put above, dont overdo sessions and allow the dog to become bored.


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## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Use treats and consistency.
> 
> Dont overdo it - a rottie will soon become bored with repitious exercises all the time.
> 
> ...


We aren't training them with treats as we don't want them to always expect a treat, as they are like that. I will look into finding a local training classes.



Ceearott said:


> They do not need to trained sternly and in a different way at all!! Who told you that crap???
> 
> My dogs get trained same way as everyone else's dog when doing good citizens or anything else. You just need to be consistent and as I put above, dont overdo sessions and allow the dog to become bored.


no one told me it, I read it, and it is true to my two. They didn't learn sit by having a treat dangled above their head and put back, they would just eat it, and their teeth hurt(even when being gentle)as they are trying to get it, so we both let go as they wouldn't easily. The book I want to get ---> Rottweiler Savvy read it if that will help where I am getting at.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

Gingergin said:


> Rottweiler's need to be trained sternly and a different way to every other dog,


LOL, no they dont!

All dogs do as we ask for the same reason, either to gain something they want or to avoid something they dont want. This is true of ALL dogs. Whether theyre a rottweiler or a chihuahua. Your job it to figure out what your rotties want and then make them work for it. Generally a good place to start is with food. Have you looked in to clicker training at all?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

If you want free help with training look here:

ClickerSolutions Training Articles Contents

Dog Training Overview | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

Rotties are not stubborn, there are plenty of titled dogs in Working Trials and Schutzhund to prove the lie to that assertion, many more participating in Agility, HWTM, Obedience not to mention as PAT dogs.

If you are finding it hard to train your dogs, don't accuse them of shortcomings, rather look to your own.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

Gingergin said:


> We aren't training them with treats as we don't want them to always expect a treat, as they are like that.


 Again, youre mistaken, training with treats doesnt create a slobbering begging dog. 


Gingergin said:


> no one told me it, I read it, and it is true to my two. They didn't learn sit by having a treat dangled above their head and put back, they would just eat it, and their teeth hurt(even when being gentle)as they are trying to get it, so we both let go as they wouldn't easily. The book I want to get ---> Rottweiler Savvy read it if that will help where I am getting at.


No, if the dog is eating your fingers with the treat, teach them to take the treat gently and not until you release them to take it. Its not hard. 
Just breezed through the link posted, but any method that claims one breed to be that different than another and how to make sure the dog knows whos boss is pretty suspect IMO.

Ditch the idea that you have anything other than normal dogs and try training them like normal dogs.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Gingergin said:


> We aren't training them with treats as we don't want them to always expect a treat, as they are like that.


There's no reason not to use treats if this is what motivates the dog though it's about positive reinforcement


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## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> There's no reason not to use treats if this is what motivates the dog though it's about positive reinforcement


we use positive reinforcement, they know if they do right they get kisses and hugs, and they love that


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

Where is Rottiefan when you need her.

I don't have rotties but I've worked with them. They are nice dogs.. not Belgians or Dutchies or even BasRouge but still nice. 

All I've met have been well motivated dogs, which means they are easy to train (if you know their and not stubborn at all. They are nice gentle lumps who don't require harsh training - no dog does.

What others have written should be heeded. There is no reason NOT to use food during training.

Ian Dunbar has a video as to why people who use food often have problems.. "Ian Dunbar TEDTalks" basically because they never move away from 1:1 reinforcement. To your dog food or some prey play is far more meaningful, more salient, more "memorable" than the primate inspired hugs and kisses. Make a training plan, make sure everyone gets on board and implement it.

There are various free sources out there. In video subscribe the youtube channels of SuperBark1 and Kikkopup, they will lead you to others that can guide you. For articles the ones mentioned are good.

+R/-P Dog Resource WebPage


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## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

I've never found Rottweilers to be any more difficult to train then other breeds. My best friend fosters Rotties and she trains them just like I did my GSD and Cairn. 
Teaching with treats shouldn't be seen as bribery, it is motivation for the dog to work. Think of it like this, would you go into work every day and preform at your best when you know there will be no pay check coming to you at the end of the week? Treats mark a good behaviour and encourage your dog to do that behaviour again. 
You can fade out treats gradually with success but you need to build a working relationship and they need to understand the command first. 
Rio snapped treats out of my hand when she was a pup (those needle teeth hurt!) but I taught her to take the treat gently by holding it in my fist and letting her nibble it little sections of it while saying "Softly" in a soothing voice. 
I now keep high value treats in my mouth and spit them out (encourging my dog to watch my face not my hands) or toss the treat for her to catch (she loves that).
Some Rotties respond better to activity and toys so perhaps you could teach your dog commands while using play as a reward. That would keep your dogs focus on you and prevent bordem. I would ask for a command then pull out a toy and have a tug session when they complied. 
Rotties are stubborn but they are also very smart and people pleasers so use that to your advantage


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## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

Catz1 said:


> I've never found Rottweilers to be any more difficult to train then other breeds. My best friend fosters Rotties and she trains them just like I did my GSD and Cairn.
> Teaching with treats shouldn't be seen as bribery, it is motivation for the dog to work. Think of it like this, would you go into work every day and preform at your best when you know there will be no pay check coming to you at the end of the week? Treats mark a good behaviour and encourage your dog to do that behaviour again.
> You can fade out treats gradually with success but you need to build a working relationship and they need to understand the command first.
> Rio snapped treats out of my hand when she was a pup (those needle teeth hurt!) but I taught her to take the treat gently by holding it in my fist and letting her nibble it little sections of it while saying "Softly" in a soothing voice.
> ...


thankyou for the advice, will go get a toy tomorrow as they have just finished of destorying their present toys. :biggrin:


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## troublestrouble (Oct 19, 2011)

i'd try again with the treats and be persistent, Trouble (GSD, no knowledge of rotties but I'd love one one day) learned everything through treats and then was slowly weened off so now she has to sit and sometimes she doesn't get a treat, sometimes she does, Stark is being trained in exactly the same way and after 3 weeks she knows her name and sit and wait and is slowly getting to grips with please/paw, not a huge amount but we have had to spend a lot of time learning that she doesnt get the treat just because she tries to eat my hand, i think it also means she is learning leave quite nicely too

good luck and keep trying, i can't imagine rotties need a sterner hand than any other dog, every OWNER just needs to find out what is the right method for their dog


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Gingergin said:


> we use positive reinforcement, they know if they do right they get kisses and hugs, and they love that


That will work. In fact, it is the way I have always done it, never having a treat handy at the right time. But please listen to the experienced rottie owners and breeders.

I know little about the breed, but I believe they are instinctually a guarding breed and if you try stern or harsh methods, the dog could easily see that as confrontational. You have to respect a dogs natural abilities and intelligence and he needs a reason to do things. You don't work for nothing, why should he?

And be very wary of books by so called "experts". You may find that same author has similar books about every other breed, mostly all the same. They only call them something different in order to sell more copies.

Many people have fallen for the "trainers" who still spout about pack leader rubbish and how you have to show him whose boss. You need to be his friend, the provider of all good things in his life. That way he will follow you willingly.


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## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

Gingergin said:


> thankyou for the advice, will go get a toy tomorrow as they have just finished of destorying their present toys. :biggrin:


Toys are fantastic for praise if thats what your dogs go for. Some like treats, some praise and others might go gaga for things like ice chunks or carrot. Its fun to find out what gets your dog going so dont be afraid to try different ways of praise. 
When I use a toy I only let my girl have that specific toy during our training sessions. I like to keep one toy very special. She has plenty of every day stuffies and balls but I have a rope toy that I keep on a shelf and only bring it out for classes. That way its not a boring old toy that she can use every day but a high value treat. You should see her eyes light up when I pull that rope out lol..


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2011)

Gingergin said:


> we use positive reinforcement, they know if they do right they get kisses and hugs, and they love that


Theres a lot more to proper reinforcement based training that just hugs and kisses. For one, most dogs do NOT like hugs. Yes, its true. Many dogs learn to associate good things with hugs, but if you watch carefully, youll see most dogs give off a lot of calming signals when being hugged. Likely not the most reinforcing thing you can offer your dog. If the dog really doesnt like hugs, you could be teaching him NOT to do certain things by hugging him when he does. 
Additionally, hugs and kisses arent going to be reinforcing enough under even minimal distractions.

Its not very hard to create a conditioned reinforcer (a reward your dog will go bonkers for). If you choose a toy, make sure you only use that toy during training session and make the toy super interesting and interactive with YOU. (Not something the dog can play with on his own.) 
Food is IME easier, more convenient and very practical to use as a reinforcer. All dogs need to eat, use it to your advantage. Once you have the dog working for food, it is also easy to transition to another conditioned reinforcer like a toy as described above.

I want to reiterate that training with food does NOT create a begging, pushy, rude dog. That is a big misconception that leads to many dogs being trained with punitive methods because the owners are afraid to reward appropriately. Training a dog with food *properly* actually creates more self control around food because the dog learns the food is to be earned, not a free for all.

This dog is trained with food.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

No offence meant but it does sound like you are both novice owners of this breed, and reading all and sundry on the net doesnt always give you clarification.

Fins yourself a good local training class, learn the basics for yourself and the dog - gain a partnership and develop a bond with the dogs - something you need to have when you own a rottie or two! These training classes neednt cost the earth, look around and do some pricing up and ask for recommendations. Basic training is something I tell all my puppy owners to do, its an important part of owning a breed that isnt always the easiest to handle at times.

Whilst they can be trained just like any other dog, you have to keep them interested, like I said before, letting them get bored is no good.

As for using treats, years back I never used them to train rotties, but it does seem the 'norm' now. By all means alternate, use treats sometimes and not at other times. You also need to teach the dgos to be 'gentle' when taking food from your hands - most important!

I refrain from giving actual training adice on the net, I'm no expert in obedience, but I do know a lot of owners use the 'nothing in life is free' thing. try this link -

Nothing in Life is Free Gaining control of your dog humanely

Rotties arent a breed for everyone, they do need a strong owner at times - but put the work in and stick at it and you will be rewarded tenfold


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Mine love hugs. They often climb up next to me and nudge their heads under my arm till I cuddle them. They also like lots of praise and fuss.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Theres a lot more to proper reinforcement based training that just hugs and kisses. For one, most dogs do NOT like hugs.


And even those who do tend to only like them on _their _terms. Rupert insisted on hugs, he'd wriggle and shove until he ended up with both your arms around him, then he'd either press his head against your forehead and stay like that for a few minutes or put his head on your chest and refuse to move.

However, he didn't enjoy hugs if anyone just took it upon themselves to hug him. He never growled or threatened to bite but he clearly wasn't comfortable with it like he was when given the choice.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Mine love hugs. They often climb up next to me and nudge their heads under my arm till I cuddle them. They also like lots of praise and fuss.


Well, if theyre newfies you cant train them like normal dogs 

But in all seriousness, is a hug going to work for a recall under distractions?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Well, if theyre newfies you cant train them like normal dogs
> 
> But in all seriousness, is a hug going to work for a recall under distractions?


Diva responds to a good cuddle and a good girl, even when playing with other dogs (well she did till she got a bit more confident)! Ferdie won't come back anyway unless I walk away, then he races after me.

I have to admit that Joshua responded much better to liver cake, though!


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

From experience, Rotties are incredibly food motivated. Whilst you may think your dog is being stubborn, it is more likely that you are just not motivating your dog enough in training. Teaching needs to be fun and rewarding, it's not enough to expect your dog to learn behaviours just because you are asking them- dogs most likely have no concept of 'trying to please' anyhow. They most certainly do, however, have the ability to learn through association. 

This really isn't about Rotties, it's about training in general. I would check out clicker training and begin to use food to teach new behaviours, or another toy if that is more reinforcing. When a behaviour is taught, you only need to reward at variable schedules, unless you are practising the behaviour in a new, distracting environment that is. 

I clicker train all Rotties I work with, using food, and often a squeaky toy too. I also use a slip lead and attach a tug toy to it, so I can safely play tug and teach 'Take' and 'Leave', without being mouthed. Rotties are very biddable!


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

No you do not need to be stern with your Rottie. Dog training is easy. You consistently reward what you want and prevent what you don`t. 
The dog learns that doing some things are rewarding and others aren`t. So he does the rewarding stuff. 
You reward until the behaviour is automatic. Then you occasionally reward to reinforce it as it drops off if left unrewarded for any length of time. Simples!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Gingergin said:


> Rottweilers need to be trained sternly...
> a *different way* to every other dog[-breed or cross-breed or random-mix].


sheer hooey. :lol: i don't know who's selling such tripe, but it's not true.

Some breed- or type-specific behaviors can complicate training: Scenthounds & sighthounds, 
for example: the former can be distracted by their noses, & the latter by running prey or distant movement.

but ALL dogs can be trained using reward-based methods; no breed is 'impossible to train' using this - 
TEACH the desired behavior, REWARD the desired behavior, & MANAGE to prevent UnDesired behaviors.

goof-proofing the learning process so that the dog finds it very-easy to do desired behaviors, & very-difficult 
or preferably impossible to do the UnDesired behaviors, is the best possible method, since it avoids 
having the dog learn those unwanted behaviors, let alone practice them until they have become habits.


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> No you do not need to be stern with your Rottie. Dog training is easy. You consistently reward what you want and prevent what you don`t.
> The dog learns that doing some things are rewarding and others aren`t. So he does the rewarding stuff.
> You reward until the behaviour is automatic. Then you occasionally reward to reinforce it as it drops off if left unrewarded for any length of time. Simples!


As above. My friend has two Rotties, one the same age as my Ridgeback, they learn in the same way as any other dog.

As has been said earlier very intelligent dogs won't do repetitive commands, but actually I found my RR worse than the Rotties for this. You need to keep your energy levels up and find the reward that motivates your dog, which might be toys, food etc.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Gingergin said:


> [our 2 Rotties] didn't learn sit by having a treat dangled above their head & [moved] back, they'd just eat it,
> *& their teeth hurt* (even when being gentle) as they [try] to get it, so we both let go [of the treats]
> as they wouldn't [let go] easily.


then this indicates POOR *bite-inhibition* - 
IOW, neither dog knows how to use their mouth/teeth gently, which they can be taught, even as adults - 
it's easier & faster to teach a puppy, especially during their mouthing & teething stages, since the pup 
frequently grabs our hands, clothes, etc, in play, to explore, to solicit attention, & so on... 
But even *adult* dogs can learn to use their mouths / teeth with exquisite precision & without causing 
any pain whatever to a human's skin.

i'd go to DogStar Daily website & download the 2 FREE books: 
_'Before U Get Ur Puppy'_ & _'After U Get Ur Puppy'_.

loads of excellent training advice, & specifically how to teach a 'gentle mouth', AKA an inhibited bite.

*How old were these pups when U got them?* 
normally, pups learn bite-inhibition when they play with their siblings & their dam, since painful bites mean 
that their playmate yipes & the game stops - if the pup wants to play, s/he MUST learn to gauge their bite, 
& use soft contact that doesn't hurt, just as we can tickle someone, poke them, or punch them, but those 
are all things we do with our hands: the differences lie in the force exerted, & the intention of the contact.

active-play begins for short periods around 5-WO when the pups are up on their legs, not crawling anymore, 
& the duration & activity-level grows as the pups' endurance & co-ordination increases; from 5-WO to 8-WO 
is the active-play period, & even if the pups are no longer nursing, THEY NEED ALL 3-WEEKS to learn 
apropos dog-skills, plus the all-important inhibited bite, before they leave for a home of their own.

pups who leave their litter *before* 56-days are very-likely to have multiple problem-behaviors, 
which can lead to lifelong chronic issues - sadly, all of these early-separation pups are likely to live 
shorter lives, precisely because of their early-learning gap.  They are often surrendered to shelters 
or rescues, & once homeless may be considered unadoptable, or their first-family euthanizes the dog.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I know little about [Rotts], but I believe they're instinctually a guarding breed & if you try stern or harsh methods,
> the dog could easily see that as confrontational.


absolutely true -

with any guarding-breed, U must ask Urself: 
_'Do i want an ally - or an adversary?'_ 
if U want the dog to be on _your side of an imaginary fence_, to see U as a trusted partner, 
U cannot be punitive & harsh - that sows distrust & fear, the dog will then DEFEND HER- OR HIM-SELF 
*FROM* U, rather than ally themselves with U & defend *you from others*.

Put the dog in the role of adversary & we alienate her/him; the dog becomes an intimate enemy. 
U don't want to live with an enemy; that isn't why U get a dog - U get them for companionship, 
partnership, shared activities, the pleasure of their friendship, as well as their loyalty & devotion.

harsh-handling breaks their faith in their handler; sooner or later, their will be a critical moment 
when U NEED the dog to obey immediately, with full & complete trust in U, & it's likely that the dog will not; 
their niggling distrust will bring down the whole house of cards, all that training will collapse, because 
at the base, the foundation was rotten. :nonod: 


newfiesmum said:


> You have to respect a dog's natural abilities & intelligence & s/he needs a reason to do things.
> You don't work for nothing, why should [the dog]?
> 
> [SNIP]
> ...


Brava! :thumbup: well-said, & excellent advice.


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## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

thankyou for all the advice people. Sorry about late reply, the internet has to be perfect for me to come on here for some reason, but will take all advice into the training, as I will be starting again from recall, and will use treats, and one type of toy. One thing I would like to know though, should I train both the rotties together or separately?


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## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> *How old were these pups when U got them?*


Tyson was one and Princess was one so the man says, Tyson has proof of he age on the paper thing we got with him, but Princess has no proof at all.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Gingergin said:


> Tyson was one & Princess was one so the man says,
> Tyson has proof of [his] age on the paper thing we got with him,
> but Princess has no proof at all.


they were 12-MO when U got them? How old are they, now? 
are they siblings, or half-siblings, or un-related?

i thought U'd gotten them as pups; that does make it a bit more difficult, but teaching a soft-mouth 
is still very do-able. :yesnod:


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I would train them separately for the time being.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2012)

Gingergin said:


> thankyou for all the advice people. Sorry about late reply, the internet has to be perfect for me to come on here for some reason, but will take all advice into the training, as I will be starting again from recall, and will use treats, and one type of toy. One thing I would like to know though, *should I train both the rotties together or separately?*


I would train them separately initially. Later, as they get more proficient, you can put one in a settle while you work the other and vice versa. This is a great self-control exercise for one and distraction training for the other.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

ouesi said:


> I would train them separately initially. Later, as they get more proficient, you can put one in a settle while you work the other and vice versa. This is a great self-control exercise for one and distraction training for the other.


Exactly what I thought, lol!


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## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> they were 12-MO when U got them? How old are they, now?
> are they siblings, or half-siblings, or un-related?
> 
> i thought U'd gotten them as pups; that does make it a bit more difficult, but teaching a soft-mouth
> is still very do-able. :yesnod:


about 2 now  Time really did fly with them, it felt like yesturday bringing them home :thumbsup:


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## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

ouesi said:


> I would train them separately initially. Later, as they get more proficient, you can put one in a settle while you work the other and vice versa. This is a great self-control exercise for one and distraction training for the other.


okay, thankyou for the advice, I will take it onboard


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Can't really add too much more to what's already been said but here is a great clip from Drayton Michaels: The Heavy Hand Myth - You Don&#39;t Need Fear & Pain to Train Dogs. - YouTube

Oh and here's a piece on recall training: Rover! Rover? ROVER!!! - 100% rock solid reliable recalls | Pet Central&#039;s Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

Best of luck


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## Gingergin (Dec 16, 2011)

thankyou tripod


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