# Siamese male behavioural problems help & advice needed URGENTLY thanks



## danniityler (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi All,

This really is my last resort, we are at the end of our tether and need help and fast with our male siamese cat named Carlos, we have had absolutely no luck whatsoever in finding a solution to our problem.. 

As a child I was bought up with Siamese cats, so I am therefore very much aware that they can be quirky, charismatic, a little bit naughty and extremely intelligent however, our male seems to be on a completely different planet!

We bought Carlos and Darcey who are brother and sister, five years ago from a lovely local family who had a one-off litter. As kittens, until about the age of 1 years old they grew up with my husband and I on a stud farm, they were both neutered at the appropriate age and were surrounded by other cats, dogs, horses, people and children. Everything was perfect, they were happy playful cats who roamed free, loved being at home and went about their business as any normal cat would. 

When they were just over a year old, due to work commitments in London we moved about 3 miles down the road into the outskirts of a quiet town. We moved into an end of terrace house which had a garden and plenty of safe roaming space for the cats. The move went well and the cats settled in very quickly, we let them outside of their new house after a month of being there so that they could get used to their new territory, again everything was fine, the cats were happy and settled and there were no unusual problems with them. 

Then, after 2 years of living on the end of the terrace, the house next door to us went up for rent, so we moved there because the house was a lot bigger as was the garden, and this is when the problems started. Again, although we had only moved from next door (not even 10ft away) we kept both the cats inside the house for three weeks so they could get used to their new home, as before there were no problems with them settling in until the day we let them outside... 

About two weeks after we had let them out for the first time, we started receiving daily letters from our next door neighbour stating that Carlos (our male) had been constantly going into her house via the cat flap in her kitchen. (Our next door neighbour has three cats of her own and in fact pretty much the whole terrace of six houses has at least one cat per household) but Carlos only goes into our next door neighbours house, no-one else's?! Our next door neighbour didn't mind the fact that he went into her house, but quite rightly she did and still does mind the trail of destruction he leaves behind. 

As soon as he was let out in the morning, Carlos routinely everyday without fail would hop over our garden wall into our next door neighbours garden. Once there he would go through the cat-flap into our neighbours kitchen where he would then sit in the kitchen sink and play with the plug, after 30 minutes or so he would then jump from the work surface into her flip-top dustbin, once inside the dustbin he would knock it over onto its side, push the lid off, pull all the rubbish out of it, scatter it through her kitchen and living rooms then finished by urinating into the bin lid! He would literally 'trash the house'. He had also been known on many occasions to sneak into her house at night, start a fight with all of her three cats which in turn would wake her up in the early hours of the morning, he has urinated in other rooms of her house, vomited numerous times on her sofa and has more than once despite being litter trained, defecated on her bed! Given a choice he would not come home, if it was not for her catching him out and 'shooing' him away. This routine of behaviours has NEVER been acted out in our house nor any of our other neighbours houses in our terrace, despite the fact he has equal and easy access to all of them. 

We all hoped and agreed that maybe his behaviour was just a phase of settling in and that he would stop it but this exact routine went on every day without fail for over 5 months. Obviously our neighbour was getting to the end of her tether with it all and secretly filmed his actions for me to see via a camera she had set up in her house while she was at work. We thought peace would be restored when she, as a last resort, spent a lot of money on a top of the range cat flap, which is only supposed to let in cats that have the correct magnetic collar on (which hers did), this 'state of the art' contraption worked for all of three days until Carlos worked out how to open it with his claw! ... back to square one.

We have all noticed that Carlos refuses to go into our neighbours house when she is home, he will wonder up her garden path and sit out side next to the cat-flap but will NOT enter her house if he sees or hears she is about. When this happens and he realises she is at home, be it at a weekend or when she gets back from work, he will run straight back home to our house, 'dart' up and down our stairs repetitively, run from room to room to look out of each window that over looks our garden and hers, paces around and around our house, pulls his fur out, and will spray in the same place next to the cupboard in our kitchen every time. 

We have all concluded that this behaviour is not a phase, but could be more a territorial ritual/routine which Carlos obviously feels he needs to act out which in turn makes him stressed if he cant do so. However, it is a routine that can no longer go on for our neighbours sanity and our own. At present, our only way of dealing with this behaviour is by keeping Carlos shut in during the day time while ourselves and our neighbour are at work, which obviously he not does not like, but we are literally on the verge of being evicted if we let him out 24/7 to carry on with the behaviours he is displaying next door. 


Since this all started I have tried behavioural and pheromone sprays, not to mention thoroughly cleaning the carpets and furniture in our house due to the smell of cat urine, we have used process of elimination to see if any of our furniture being moved has upset him, we haven't added or taken away any furniture, we've tried the top of the range cat flap, my neighbour has tried water pistols, loud noises and scaring him out of her house, we have tried orange peel and curry powder as a deterrent, I have taken him to the vets who prescribed him some herbal sedatives, spoken to numerous other vets, other Siamese owners, feline behavioural specialists, friends, family and have read book after book and article after article, but no one and nothing seems to be able stop this behaviour of his or give a clear reason for it. The feline behavioural specialists and vets say they have dealt with some naughty and highly strung siamese cats in the past but have never come across anything like this in their life! 

I cannot help but feel this is a territory problem but short of moving house which we cannot afford do again, there is nothing else we feel we can do, we are exhausted from it all. Our next door neighbour has lived here for many years and has never encountered such problems with anyone else's cats. At home when we are sitting around watching TV, Carlos is the best cat, he constantly purrs, he will wrap himself around your neck and likes to sleep with us in bed as does his sister. He and his sister clean each other and sleep together all the time. He follows us around the house 'talking' and will sit on your lap at any given opportunity, this is what he used to be like all the time until we moved to this particular house. It is heartbreaking to see him be so stressed and pull his fur out, he has never lost his appetite and loves his food but must burn off any calories he does eat by his pacing around!

I am sorry it is a little complicated but I am really hoping you might be able to shed some new light on this or even possibly help us find a solution as unfortunately this situation has become so bad for everyone involved that I fear we may have to look into rehoming Carlos which will break our hearts. Hope you can help!

Sorry its so long best to explain the situation fully

Many thanks

Dannii


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Have you considered having a consultation with an animal behaviourist? If your cat is insured it may be worth checking your policy to see if a consultation is covered by your policy - especially if your vet has perhaps seen/treated Carlos for stress already?


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Just bumping this up for you.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

What a nightmare  Having been a Siamese slave for many years I have never come across such extreme behaviour. It seems as if Carlos is punishing you for the move - is it your old house that he goes back to or the neighbour the other side? He is clearly a very unhappy cat and I am at a loss for a suggestion of how to stop his behaviour if you have already tried hormone sprays, vets and behaviourists


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Id think an outdoor cat pen would be ideal for his bit of freedom.It seems like he feels as though the other house is his and there are stranger cats in his house making him angry.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

Microchip cat flap. We have one and it keeps out the very determined tom cats and keeps in our Siamese and other breeds even when they are determined to go and play with said Tom cats. They are expensive and are not infallable as if a chipped cat will allow him to come through the door at exactly the same time he could get in. They would have to be very good friends though and it would take a while before your boy worked it out and managed to get the co-operation of the neighboroughs cat.

Have a look at the mechanism as I am sure a claw could not open it - there is no way to get into the Pet porte one using a claw anyway.

Or keep him as an indoor cat 

Best of luck


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Great advice from Alaskacat, I've heard great reviews on here for a microchip cat flap, apparently they work much better than the magnetic ones.

The main thing I would be concerned about is the spraying. As you've said, you got them neutered, and I thought cats didn't spray once neutered? What did your vet say about it?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Sounds to me like a VERY intelligent cat! I think he is most definitely dishing out punishment. I too am confused over which neighbour - whether its your old house or not?

I think the best solution would be a large pen in the garden, where he could have access from a cat flap or window, or cat proof the garden. I would also give him lots of toys for stimulation. 

If my Abbysinian cant get his own way ie he cant have that last piece of bacon from my plate, he will run up to and swipe one of the dogs!


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

I read this as Carlos doesn't know that it is not his house any more, and thinks that a pile of strangers have moved in. His behaviour in your house sounds like he is worried that they will move in to your new house too and is marking his ground (and watching out for invaders). His behaviour next door looks like a mix of a cat enjoying its own territory and reacting to strangers in its territory. He doesn't go in when your neighbour is there because he probably recognises that she doesn't want him and then he runs back home to make sure they don't move in there. 

To stop it you will need to stop him going next door I think. I don't know what options you have, but you are't going to be able to explain it to him. I think you need to keep him in, cat-proof the garden or build a run.


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## lola belle (Mar 17, 2011)

All very good suggestions, common sense really isn't it. Keep him as an indoor cat, or a cat pen in the garden. Siamese are very quirky indeed!!!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

My mind was elsewhere when posting last night but of course a pen or cat proofed garden are obvoius solutions. I do think a determined cat can work out a way through momost cat flaps though. 
RM - even neutered cats will spray if under sufficient stress


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## munchkinpie (Oct 20, 2011)

Im taking it you boy isnt going to your old housevas you said the lady had lived there for years, are her cats neutered/spayed, he sounds like a alpha cat and maybe your neighbour owns his rival hence going in spraying starting fights etc would also explain spraying in your own property, territory wars!!!


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## danniityler (Jul 18, 2012)

Thank you all for your suggestions. I know it's a difficult one- to answer a few of the above questions, yes Carlos has been taken to the vet on numerous occassions, they said he was stressed and prescribed some herbal sedatives which unfortunately didnt work. I too thought that spraying should not happen if cats have been neutered but according to the vet it can still happen! We are considering keeping Carlos as an indoor cat, he has a lot to ammuse him in our house but will just keep looking out the window to outside 
The house carlos goes into is not our old house its the house the other side, we are in the middle of both houses  I have been in touch with about 4 different feline behavioural experts, all have said that they have never come across anything like this and that they wouldn't want to take the case on and charge me as they can not guarantee a solution. Thanks forplotting me know about the chipped cat flaps, I will have a look at and see if it can be an option.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Just had a thought. is it at all possible he has an illness and is covering it up? Could be unlikely but if he is ill, it could explain him going back to your old house - he's goin back to where he feels safe and comfortable to lick his wounds as it were. Just a thought.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

I think, for the sake of your poor neighbours sanity you only have two options. Try a microchip cat flap and if that doesn't work you will have to confine Carlos to an indoor run or the house. 

I realise you are trying incredibly hard to find a solution, but to put up with five months of this in her home must be very stressful for both the neighbour and her cats.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Rabbitmonkee said:


> > As you've said, you got them neutered, and I thought cats didn't spray once neutered?
> 
> 
> All male cats continue to spray when neutered, it is just that most of them do not spray in the house unless they are feeling very insecure due to territorial issues as the OP's cat is.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi Dannii -- it sounds very much like your cat has some serious territorial issues. I think these have come about because you moved such a short distance from your previous home, only next door in fact. It is always difficult for an outdoor cat to adjust if the move is *within* their usual territory. 

Your cat's perception of what is *his* territory has been upset, and he is confused and frantically trying to re-establish himself. I would guess he is going into the neighbour's house because he can't get into his old house because there is no longer a catflap there. So he has redirected his territorial urges onto the house the other side, as being the nearest to your new house. 

His behaviour may seem bizarre, but I don't think it is as rare as the vet seems to think. I remember a case some years ago of a neighbour of mine moving from one house to another at the far end of the street. One of her cats (a neutered male), when he was let out for the first time 3 weeks later, went straight back to his old home and tried to get in. He could not get in because the catflap had been removed by the new owners, so he began hanging around the garden of the house next door to his old home, begging for food. 

His owner came to collect him and take him back to his new home but he would not stay there. In the end because the cat was so distressed the neighbour next door to his old home offered to take him in. The owner agreed and the cat eventually settled with his new owner. It seems the *pull* of territory can sometimes be stronger than the bond with the cat's owner. 

However, I am not suggesting you rehome your cat with your neighbour! 

My suggestion, as others have said, is for your neighbour to install a microchip catflap as soon as possible to keep your cat out of her house. I am sure it is almost impossible for a cat to force open a chipped catflap, but if there is real concern that he might manage it, then your neighbour would be best to get the flap installed on an outside wall rather than a door. With the wall installation there is an add-on tunnel which I think would make it impossible for a cat to force open the flap. 

Once the flap is installed I would try your cat on a course of Zylkene, a supplement which will calm him down and make him lesss anxious.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

chillminx said:


> Rabbitmonkee said:
> 
> 
> > All male cats continue to spray when neutered, it is just that most of them do not spray in the house unless they are feeling very insecure due to territorial issues as the OP's cat is.
> ...


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

spid said:


> chillminx said:
> 
> 
> > Really - my boy doesn't
> ...


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