# Urgent help needed - bunny listless/not eating



## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi guys,

I'm not sure if I've posted in this section before or not, I usually use the dog one as they're far more trouble than the buns!

We have two rescue rabbits - Peanut, possibly an English cross, and Suzi, most likely a lop/lion head cross. Both are about 3 or 4 and live both indoors and outdoors. They have a double tiered cage inside and a huge pen outside (to give them loads of space but separate them from the dogs when they are out). They're both neutered and we feed them hay (constant access) and two meals a day of Pets at Home adult nuggets. They've never had muesli food.

Both of them have had stasis at one point each over the last few years and each time they've been given a motility injection to get them 'moving' again. However, last night we noticed that Peanut wasn't eating his dinner. We had to go out but tried feeding him when we got back and he still wouldn't have any. He also hasn't eaten his breakfast. We're pretty sure he ate his breakfast on Saturday but when we thought about it neither of us saw him hopping about outside during the day, just sitting in one of their toys. He seems quite listless though he his hopping about from time to time and grooming himself. I also haven't seen him have a drink, though he never drank frequently (that we saw) before. 

We have syringed a mixture of grass and Suzi's poop into his mouth (recommended by a vet last time when he did this over a weekend) but I don't have pineapple juice and the shops aren't open yet. He didn't seem to swallow it to start with but it must have gone somewhere as he didn't spit it out. We've also massaged his belly.

Unlike last time he has this, his eyes and nose seem a little runny - there's a little white discharge around his nose and in the corner of his eyes, a bit like sleep.

I guess I'm asking you guys whether this is enough or whether he should go to an emergency vet today? I know it's awful but I'm worried about the emergency cost on top of the meds and everything else. We're a bit tight on cash at the moment and while I would pay it if I have to I would rather nurse him myself if I can.


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

Here's the guys in their bucket (all the expensive toys in the world and they love an old ice bucket best!):







Suzi is on the left and Peanut is on the right.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

If he is not eating now for 12 hours he needs to go to emergency vet where they give him painkiller and metaclopromide (guts stimulant)-he probably would need to stay with them.
Longer you wait less chances he has unfortunately.


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

Thank you, to be honest I thought as much. I'll give them a call now.


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

He's booked in for 10.30. Fingers crossed.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Let us know! I keep my fingers crossed for little guy for speedy recovery!


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

i agree its definatly a vet job, good luck let us know how he gets on


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Definitely an emergency trip to the vets, where he can have a full check over.

Do let us know he gets on.

I would expect the vet to give him fluids (sub cu or IV), to rehydrate him, and to flood the guts with fluid. That can help things move along. Also a gut stimulant and some painkiller (initially Metacam).

With the runny nose/eyes, it sounds that there is something else going on, which may have stopped him eating, so that needs looking at/treatment too.

Many of us have a "first aid kit" at home - rabbits always seem to go down at the worst times. It might be worth you setting one up, as quick intervention is vital, and can sometimes avoid the need to go to the vets as an emergency. 

Ours includes syringes for feeding) and Metacam (painkiller). We also always have some baby food (Ellas Kitchen Apples Apples Apples), which can be used to mask the taste of meds, or syringed into a non eating bunny. Pellets can be mixed into a slurry that can be syringed too, and vets can give you sachets of recovery food. For people with buns prone to stasis, some vets will train you how to administer sub cu fluids (we always a bag in the fridge).

There's a list on here somewhere for suggestions for a kit.

I hope he is OK.


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

Thank everyone, we're back now. The vet thinks he has an infection (hence the runny eyes and nose) which has stopped his stomach from doing what it should. Despite him not feeling gassy last night or this morning, and us massaging his belly, there was definitely gas at the vets. He's been given an antibiotic and a gut motility injection. No painkiller or fluids but he did drink a bit this morning so he shouldn't be too dehydrated. He also drank when we got back. He has to go back tomorrow, when we'll settle the bill. Eek! 

I've given him some carrot but he's not interested. I'm not too worried though as Suzi the eating machine hasn't touched hers either so they're obviously still freaking out from their trip to the vets. I've also syringed about a teaspoon of pineapple juice into him, which I picked up after our appointment. 

Thanks Summersky, I will ask about metacam and recovery sachets when he goes back tomorrow. I've been thinking we should set something up like that as they always pick the weekends to scare us! We know you have to act fast with stasis too.

He has to stay inside because he's a little under temperature so I'm going to keep a close eye on him. I've cancelled my plans and bought some Galaxy so I can sit and read A Clash of Kings and just be with him. 

Thanks again everyone, sometimes it takes a little shove to make the decision even when you know you need to.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

I wouldn't feed carrot if I were you - they are very sugary, best avoided at all times (other than the green tops), and can actually cause stomache upsets. Also avoid any gassy greens. 

There are different schools of thought about pineapple too.

OK to tempt with fresh cut grass, and the odd dandelion leaf (not too many though as they are a diuretic).

Bit strange that the vet didn't give him painkillers (unless he gave it by injection and didn't say?), because rabbits can shut down very quickly when they are in pain.

If his temperature is low, you need to try and raise it - you can buy something called a Snugglesafe, which you microwave for a few minutes. It then holds it heat for a several hours. Another good standby.

As a quick alternative, you can fill a sock with rice, tie a firm knot, and microwave that. That stays warm for a while and some buns like to snuggle up (but make sure that they have space to move away if they want to, and that they don't chew the sock).

To keep heat in the cage, you can wrap a fleece around 3 sides and the top.


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks again. I only gave him a little bit of carrot, just because I know it's his favourite and I wanted to tempt him. Suzi's hoovered it up now though! I will try him with fresh grass in a bit. The vet recommended the pineapple juice to alter the acidity of his stomach. I'll also try a dandelion leaf as I think there are some on the drive.

Not sure on the painkiller - he gave him two injections in the scruff and I'm pretty sure one was antibiotic and the other was the motility drug. I don't think any of our animals have had painkillers unless they've had surgery. Maybe our vet is super cautious.

I have a wheat bag - can I wrap that in a tea towel and give it to him? I normally keep the curtains shut where they sit because it can get quite warm when the sun comes over, but I've left them open for now. Suzi also keeps him warm as she's a chunky bun and they're almost always snuggling.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Rach1802 said:


> Thank everyone, we're back now. The vet thinks he has an infection (hence the runny eyes and nose) which has stopped his stomach from doing what it should. Despite him not feeling gassy last night or this morning, and us massaging his belly, there was definitely gas at the vets. He's been given an antibiotic and a gut motility injection. No painkiller or fluids but he did drink a bit this morning so he shouldn't be too dehydrated. He also drank when we got back. He has to go back tomorrow, when we'll settle the bill. Eek!
> 
> I've given him some carrot but he's not interested. I'm not too worried though as Suzi the eating machine hasn't touched hers either so they're obviously still freaking out from their trip to the vets. I've also syringed about a teaspoon of pineapple juice into him, which I picked up after our appointment.
> 
> ...


Yep sounds about right with being poorly over weekend - and bank holiday Monday too!
I would ask as well for metaclopromide to keep at home so you can act fast!
It is very sweet you are going to stay and watch him 
Our bunnies always fall for kale- they love it.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Rach1802 said:


> Thanks again. I only gave him a little bit of carrot, just because I know it's his favourite and I wanted to tempt him. Suzi's hoovered it up now though! I will try him with fresh grass in a bit. The vet recommended the pineapple juice to alter the acidity of his stomach. I'll also try a dandelion leaf as I think there are some on the drive.
> 
> Not sure on the painkiller - he gave him two injections in the scruff and I'm pretty sure one was antibiotic and the other was the motility drug. I don't think any of our animals have had painkillers unless they've had surgery. Maybe our vet is super cautious.
> 
> I have a wheat bag - can I wrap that in a tea towel and give it to him? I normally keep the curtains shut where they sit because it can get quite warm when the sun comes over, but I've left them open for now. Suzi also keeps him warm as she's a chunky bun and they're almost always snuggling.


A bunny friend will definitely help keep him warm, and reduce stress. 

A well wrapped wheat bag will do the job. 

Re painkillers - Metacam is usually the first line of treatment, so I'm not sure about that. It's also an anti inflammatory.

Pineapple juice is an old remedy. Some still recommend it, others belive that, in the quantity it will begin to have an effect, the sugars in it will create more harm. Is your bunny in moult?

Vet care for rabbits has changed dramatically over recent years, and vets have to work hard to keep up to date (as do we ). This is why many vets are sadly so lacking.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Best bet is stick to forum as people here are very knowledgable about bunnies.
Regarding closing curtain-two of my bunnies love to be in sun and Funky always sit near radiator if is on


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

These guys usually prefer to be cool - they will sit under the shaded half of their outside pen if the sun even so much as peeks out. However, he does need to warm up so Suzi will just have to put up with it being a bit warmer. I've put a blanket over their cage but I don't think I'll go as far as putting the heating on, it'll be too much of a contrast I think. 

He still hasn't eaten and Suzi's pinched everything I've put in so I'm going to take him out for cuddles in a bit to warm him up and try to get some dandelion leaf or grass into him.

Still looking for the wheat bag - might have to do rice in a sock at this rate. 

Thanks again guys. I know what you mean about vets, it's a tricky one. I do trust ours but I think it would be impossible for them to be experts on absolutely everything. So far we require a rabbit expert who has in-depth knowledge of northern/spitz dog breeds and an insight into canine behaviour problems. Let me know if any of you come across one!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Well done for taking him to the vets  However I urge you to find a better rabbit vet, pain relief in situations like this are vital, the gas would build up due to him not eating for so long so that is just an added symptom to what is actually going on.
Did the vet check the teeth? root or spur issues could present itself with the symptoms you have described.. 

I would also hold off on the pineapple juice because the sugar content could very well unbalance the gut flora more than it is already. And as a blockage has not been diagnosed it is of little use. 

For now I would seek a vet that will give you pain relief (rabbits will not eat when feeling unwell so this could lead into full on GI stasis which is hard to bring them back from), get his teeth checked, get some fibreplex (pro and pre biotic to help the gut flora) and get him on a wrapped up hot water bottle or snugglesafe to get his temp up..

I can not express how urgent getting pain relief is and needs to be sorted today :


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Call your vet an ask what it gave him!
We always have two injection-pain relieve (otherwise bunny will be in pain and won't start eating) and gut stimulant.
Metacam (painkiller) in injection works faster but you can get one as well in little bottle and give it to mouth by syringe-apparently it has quite sweet taste and bunnies take it without problem.
Those two injections are MUST -sometimes thy also give fluids in injection.
Call vet and check what injection has been given.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Do you have "bunny" friend -somebody who may have metacam?


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

No, there isn't anyone who would have metacam. We have every faith in our vet and we've been reassured that they're very experienced with rabbits. How would we go about finding one that is specifically good for buns? I have to say, there's a whole lot of nothing in Suffolk and finding anyone who's an expert in anything is always a challenge. We found a vet we trust and stuck with him. He's got two buns through stasis before now.

He's not in full moult - they had a mad one about a month ago when it got really warm - but he is still shedding a bit. 

Found the wheat bag so just wrapping that up and putting it in. 

Most important of all, HE JUST ATE SOME DANDELION LEAVES!!! Only 3 or 4 but better than a few minutes ago when he wouldn't touch them. It's hard to give him stuff without Suzi snarfing it but at least he's now eaten something.


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

Oh and his teeth are perfect. They only had their check up/myxy/vhd jabs about 3 weeks ago. 

I will hold off on the pineapple juice, though only 1-2 teaspoons was recommended.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Ohh you are in Suffolk, whereabouts?
I should be able to point you in the right direction 
I'm not slating your vet so please don't think I am, but not every vet is up to date on rabbit care. Think of vets like GP's in the human world, most vets knowledge is in cats and dogs and unless they choose to specialise in rabbits then they will only know the basics.

The lack of pain relief tells me your vet isn't really up to date  Although their teeth were checked 3 weeks ago they could still be part of the issue so would still be the first thing to check. I've had spurs appear over a week or two with some rabbits, their teeth really do grow quickly.

I'm glad he has nommed on some dandilion leaves and hope he continues to improve


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

We're in Stowmarket. I grew up in Bury and use this particular vet because he was the RSPCA vet when we got our lurcher. We initially thought he'd be a bit useless with rabbits as he's in Haughley and it's all labradors and wellies but he said he treats loads of bunnies and he's always been great before. I do get what you're saying though, it's not possible for them all to be up to date on everything. 

Is Metacam a gut motility drug as well or just a painkiller?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Rach1802 said:


> We're in Stowmarket. I grew up in Bury and use this particular vet because he was the RSPCA vet when we got our lurcher. We initially thought he'd be a bit useless with rabbits as he's in Haughley and it's all labradors and wellies but he said he treats loads of bunnies and he's always been great before. I do get what you're saying though, it's not possible for them all to be up to date on everything.
> 
> *Is Metacam a gut motility drug as well or just a painkiller?*


Just a pain killer, metoclopramide is a gut stim


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok. I am not sure what he said he'd given as despite being a biochemist I was in such a tizz I didn't really hear him. It definitely started with meta but that doesn't help! He said it would last for 24 hours but he has to go back first thing tomorrow morning to be checked again. I am reluctant to phone him and challenge him but maybe I'm just being a wuss.

Aargh! Peanut is sick, our 8 month old Alaskan Malamute is in season, the rottie mix boy keeps getting attacked and is now dog reactive, we're halfway through renovating our first house and both of us run our own businesses. Sometimes I'd give anything to be a student again! Still, it's worth it when they're all together and happy.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Don't think of it as challenging him, you are just asking what meds he gave your rabbit which you have a right to do  Good vets don't mind phone calls, they don't mind discussing treatments and they are more than willing to do more research if needed 

For future reference I always ask for a printed receipt after any vet visit, we all panic when our pets are sick so our mind often forgets what is said so I find this the best way so that I can remember what has and hasn't been given


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Usually metacam last 24 hours but metaclopromide in injection can last 24 hours too -the metaclopromide we have at home we can repeat every 7 hours.
Can you not call vet and just ask? I will keep eye on your bunny-is he sitting in one place or start moving around? Sometimes it takes while before they tart eating-i used to sit and try to tempt Funky but vet said to leave him as I was stressing him out! I have changed my approach -I give him
Stuff and leave him and keep checking on him-when he starts eating his hay I know he is fine. Previously it took him longer to start eating -now it could be within an hour when he gets medicines. Do you sit with your bunny? If you do and this is something he is no used to it, it may be better to leave him an just go and check. Look as well for his poop-sometimes they produce soft poop first. We have bio lapis (probiotic) which we are adding to water but sometimes I will give my buns water through syringe if they not interested to drink on their own (due to gut problem). I your bunny is happy to be handled you can pick him up -and rub his tummy. Definitely check his sitting position -Funky usually sits very cooped up (like chicken) in the corner and grind his teeth. When he gets better e sits more relaxed and he starts moving around instead of sitting in one corner.
If you hear grinding noise it means bunny is in pain. 
I know what it means when everything goes wrong as we didnt have good months lately -being very unlucky with our pets
We have vet who is not rabbit savvy and they have been quite good but I usually go ready there with thousand questions.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

StormyThai said:


> Ohh you are in Suffolk, whereabouts?
> I should be able to point you in the right direction
> I'm not slating your vet so please don't think I am, but not every vet is up to date on rabbit care. Think of vets like GP's in the human world, most vets knowledge is in cats and dogs and unless they choose to specialise in rabbits then they will only know the basics.
> 
> ...


Great advice from StormyThai as usual.

I can recommend Orwell vets - main clinic and hospital at Kesgrave, but other branches in and around Ipswich (Perfect Petcare at Ravenswood, Ipswich Berners Street and Stutton). A bit too far for you in Stowmarket, maybe, but good for a second opinion. *Always ask for Charles or Katherine.*

Rabbit savvy vets are unfortunately few and far between.

I was concerned that your bun may not have had any pain relief, and I would also have expected him to be given fluids. That can perk them up quite quickly.

I am glad he has eaten some dandelion leaves. You could try offering blackberry leaves if you have any (trim off spiky bits down middle). You could also try putting in a small plate of pellets soaked in cooled boiled water - he may eat these if eating is painful.

Re teeth, just these few days of non eating can be enough to let spurs grow unfortunately, even if they were fine a few days ago.

Like Stormy Thai, we too get itemised receipts so you can see exactly what bun has had.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

How is your bunny doing? I hope he recovered well.


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks so much for your help everyone. Yesterday he only ate a few dandelion leaves and tried some hay but ground his teeth afterwards. I soaked some of his of his nuggets and he ate a couple off the end of some tweezers. Not much all in all, but progress nonetheless. 

He went back this morning and was given more motility and antibiotics and some painkiller. As soon as he got in he ate a couple of pellets and we syringed in some probiotic mixed with his mushed food.

His temp was up as well but I've put the warm wheat bag back in and left them with a bit of sun again. The OH is going to check on him every hour or so as he works from home and will syringe feed if necessary. We have to give him the whole probiotic sachet every day as well. 

Slowly getting there, I hope.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Rach1802 said:


> Thanks so much for your help everyone. Yesterday he only ate a few dandelion leaves and tried some hay but ground his teeth afterwards. I soaked some of his of his nuggets and he ate a couple off the end of some tweezers. Not much all in all, but progress nonetheless.
> 
> He went back this morning and was given more motility and antibiotics and some painkiller. As soon as he got in he ate a couple of pellets and we syringed in some probiotic mixed with his mushed food.
> 
> ...


That sounds more promising. I'm guessing that the painkillers have made him more comfortable, therefore able to eat. Can't fathom why the vet didn't give him some straight away. That's basic practice.

Grinding teeth is a sign of pain (bit confusing, as a "tooth purr" is a sign of bliss when you rub their nose!).

I hope that the vet has checked his teeth again for spurs. There is also always the possibility that he has a tooth abscess, or a tooth root problem. That could cause the runny eye/nose.

A tooth abscess is treatable with the right antibiotics, although they may need to be very long term, and an x ray would confirm an abscess/tooth root issue provided the vet knew what to look for).

Hopefully the vet has given you a bottle of Metacam (oral painkiller) for you to give daily at home? If not, you will be back daily for some time yet, which could get expensive.

Rabbits are prescribed Dog Metacam, but the dose for rabbits is on the label. There is also scope for giving a much higher dose if necessary, according to weight - the vet should should have a table)


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

I am not sure as well why poor little thing didnt get painkiller yesterday. This is first thing we give our bunnies if they do not show intrest in their food, following up with gut stimulant (metaclopromide).
Bio lapis (probiotic in sachets) is very good -Funky loves is -helps especially if bunny is on antybiotic. Sometimes vets advised to put it on their pellets but ours didnt want to take it that way -we always dissolve in water.
I hope he gets better very soon.
I won't be suprised if your vet didnt give you metacam to home as not all vets are keen to give them to home-we have been going with Funky so often they have given us bottle of painkiller and metaclopromide so he wouldn't have to be stressed by car journey.


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## Rach1802 (Apr 8, 2013)

I forgot to mention his teeth were checked - they were fine except for a little sharp bit that the vet put down to normal wear and tear - he checked very carefully for soreness and there wasn't any.

The painkiller he was given today was meloxidin. We weren't given anything to take home except the Bio Lapis probiotics and the vet advised we dissolve those in water and then soak his pellets with that. We were advised to hold one back for the next time so we have something at home.

I'm at work but my partner has just shut Suzi in the bottom of their cage and given Peanut the pro/mush food mix to eat in his own time upstairs. And HE IS! 

I think there is a lot of truth in what Funky said about stalking him - leaving him to it on his own seems to encourage him to eat more. I think he found me constantly hovering around him a bit off-putting. Especially as the dogs could sense something was up and I had to keep sending them away when they shoved their noses at him through the bars.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Rach1802 said:


> I forgot to mention his teeth were checked - they were fine except for a little sharp bit that the vet put down to normal wear and tear - he checked very carefully for soreness and there wasn't any.
> 
> The painkiller he was given today was meloxidin. We weren't given anything to take home except the Bio Lapis probiotics and the vet advised we dissolve those in water and then soak his pellets with that. We were advised to hold one back for the next time so we have something at home.
> 
> ...


They do certainly pick up on our stress and our behaving differently!

Some of our rabbits won't eat in front of the one that gives the meds, but will eat in front of others in the family.

It's not uncommon to see one of us watching through the crack in the door by the hinge, to see if bun is eating.  You catch some naughty bunny behaviour too!

We also have a Foscam wireless camera (with night vision), which is great for observing without being in the room.

The things we do. 

Glad he is eating.

I think that Meloxicam is the generic drug, Metacam is a Trade/brand name.


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