# Black siamese cat?



## moodi (Sep 27, 2010)

I have a regular black sreet cat , what i want to know is if i breed it with siamese can i get a black siamese eventually? maybe in 3rd or fourth generation if i keep breeding them with siamese::confused1:?


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## thelioncub (Feb 9, 2009)

HaHa - No.
You'll have a black moggie that might look a little bit like a Siamese.

Oh - and it doesn't sound like you should be breeding at all if you are asking this!


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## moodi (Sep 27, 2010)

noo i love my cat i take good care of it and only feed it top shelf food n top shelf toys


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

seriously.... is it school holidays this week in the UK ?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Tje said:


> seriously.... is it school holidays this week in the UK ?


:lol: No, but there must a lot of bored folk around :lol:


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

why not look to get a black oriental cat?


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## thelioncub (Feb 9, 2009)

doogpoh said:


> why not look to get a black oriental cat?


I don't think pocket money would stretch this far - MIAOW! (a comment at myself)
:thumbup:


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## LittleStar2010 (May 18, 2010)

moodi said:


> noo i love my cat i take good care of it and only feed it top shelf food n top shelf toys


Top shelf / most expensive isn't automatically the best - in fact some of the most expensive supermarket food brands are extremely poor quality while most of the highest quality cat foods like Bozita, Animonda and Smilla can be bought relatively inexpensively online. A truely loving and knowledgeable cat owner would spend a great deal of time researching and selecting the most appropriate diet for their pet - there are many excellent threads by a lovely member called Hobbs in the cat nutrition section that you might find useful.

And as has been said - if you want a 'black siamese' then you should look at getting a black oriental, but make sure you're fully prepared first as these can be a very demanding breed with some particular behavioural traits.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

if you mated a moggie to a siamese and kept back a girl or boy it would holds the colourpoint gene, then mate that with a siamese, over 5 generations, so about 10 years of breedng you would have a siamese........Im pretty sure thats right?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Actually the answer to the original question is yes, Siamese are one of the few breeds that accepts moggy outcrosses. You will have to go through five generations though (if with GCCF), and the difficult part is going to be finding a stud that will accept you.

Liz


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

lizward said:


> Actually the answer to the original question is yes, Siamese are one of the few breeds that accepts moggy outcrosses. You will have to go through five generations though (if with GCCF), and the difficult part is going to be finding a stud that will accept you.
> 
> Liz


And the other difficult part would be to find homes for all the kittens whilst you go through this process.


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## thelioncub (Feb 9, 2009)

lizward said:


> Actually the answer to the original question is yes, Siamese are one of the few breeds that accepts moggy outcrosses. You will have to go through five generations though (if with GCCF), and the difficult part is going to be finding a stud that will accept you.
> 
> Liz


Great news! - but not the best way to 'get' a black siamese - surely?


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## Atlantys (Aug 24, 2010)

thelioncub said:


> Great news! - but not the best way to 'get' a black siamese - surely?


Well, yes, and no. If you know the health and history of the moggy in question, and do the testing to make sure that you're starting without problems, then a moggy out-cross would be a great way to get a good dose of hybrid vigor.

It would take a lot of time and very, very careful selective breeding for type before you had a cat who would fit the Standard or be show quality, but it has been done (recently, I mean, not just when the breed was being developed).


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

tellingtails said:


> And the other difficult part would be to find homes for all the kittens whilst you go through this process.


Well, you'd have to price them realistically and make it clear what they were, certainly.

Actually I am in precisely this process with a Burmese outcross programme, I only have my first generation so far but hope to have the second generation in the Spring.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

thelioncub said:


> Great news! - but not the best way to 'get' a black siamese - surely?


Not the easiest way and not the cheapest, that's for sure, and not one for a novice either unless with the backing of an experienced breeder.

I suppose the OP wouldn't be interested in joining a Burmese outcross programme? The breed is in desperate need of it, even to the extent that a group of us are actively looking at the possibility of importing Thong Daengs from Thailand to give more foundation cats.

Liz


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lizward said:


> Not the easiest way and not the cheapest, that's for sure, and not one for a novice either unless with the backing of an experienced breeder.
> 
> I suppose the OP wouldn't be interested in joining a Burmese outcross programme? The breed is in desperate need of it, even to the extent that a group of us are actively looking at the possibility of importing Thong Daengs from Thailand to give more foundation cats.
> 
> Liz


Id be interested in knowing more about the burmese outcross program


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## Atlantys (Aug 24, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> Id be interested in knowing more about the burmese outcross program


Me too: sounds fascinating.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, the Burmese is the second most inbred breed of cat there is, with the average mating being equivalent to a mating of half-siblings, and that happens every time. Some of us are concerned about this, one person has imported a boy - that helps, the difficulty is that for historical reasons connected with a lethal gene which causes a horrible head deformity, imported Burmese cannot be registered with the GCCF. Some of us are trying to source some Thong Daengs (also known as Supalaks or copper cats) from Thailand - Wong Mau, the foundation cat for the breed, was one of these cats. I am hoping to join in with this. 

In the meantime, I am working on an outcross programme, which is quite simple (but costly in terms of seriously reduced kitten prices) - I have two half Burmese (full siblings, one male one female) and also a moggy from which I hope to have another half Burmese litter next year (she is unrelated to the moggy I used to breed the two half Burmese I have now). The plan next year is to mate the half Burmese girl to my Burmese boy, mate the half Burmese boy to a Burmese girl, and to get a third half Burmese (hopefully a girl) from the aforementioned moggy. All these are / will be properly registered. The difficult part is going to be finding a stud to accept the second generation girls I need to keep, though they can resemble Burmese as early as second generation, it's just that of course they would be reference register.

Liz


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## moodi (Sep 27, 2010)

thanks to the guys who took my question seriously, thanks for the input, it would be hard to find a stud but im sure if its meant to be it would happen, 5 generations ha? 10 years? lets see if i and this forum lives that long


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## Allana (Jul 7, 2010)

Really interesting thread guys!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

moodi said:


> thanks to the guys who took my question seriously, thanks for the input, it would be hard to find a stud but im sure if its meant to be it would happen, 5 generations ha? 10 years? lets see if i and this forum lives that long


Well yes, you mate your

black cat x siamese = keep back a girl
mate her to a siamese & keep back a girl and so on for 5 generations, could take longer than that, hope you have the time and money!!


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