# Post referendum, pre Brexit good news.



## samuelsmiles

I found this in the Guardian, which was quite a pleasant surprise. 

*Fewer UK firms are struggling despite Brexit vote, survey shows*


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## Satori

Good news indeed. If we need anything during the uncertainty of Brexit it is the determination and adaptability of the firms that drive our economy and provide employment. In contrast to the usurious behaviour of the like of the Banking sector and the Unilivers of this world who will lobby their way into profitability or just shaft the consumer, our SME's will find new models, products and markets. I just hope May's government isn't dragged too far away from the fundamentals as we get dragged deeper into the EU negotiations.


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## cheekyscrip

Oh..and the third runway at Heathrow will be built..lovely.

Brexit so far had impact on pound and savings...
The rest when you are out of single market..


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## cheekyscrip

Depends where you look...


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## samuelsmiles

Cheekyscrip - this is a post referendum, pre Brexit 'good news' thread. It would be a shame to derail it with more pessimism


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## westie~ma

They aren't out of the woods yet but some good news 
http://m.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/tatasteel

Hubby's business too doing better due to dip in pound (aerospace).


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## stockwellcat.

It's nice to read some positive news post referendum, pre-Brexit instead of doom and gloom.


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## rona

samuelsmiles said:


> Cheekyscrip - this is a post referendum, pre Brexit 'good news' thread. It would be a shame to derail it with more pessimism


The first post is a positive isn't it? I can't see what's negative about putting more planes and traffic into an already built up area rather than the alternatives. Even Gatwick would be a huge mistake.

I'd rather we didn't have to have it at all but Heathrow is the best option


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## KittenKong

cheekyscrip said:


> Depends where you look...


Absolutely!

It might be "good news" pre Brexit, but will it be post Brexit?.


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## samuelsmiles

I'm quite old fashioned so I was chuffed to bits to see the name British Steel back in use.

It seems that they have a more modern, sensitive approach to the environment now. 

*British Steel Sustainability. *


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## samuelsmiles

KittenKong said:


> Absolutely! Brexit is bad news full stop....


Look, wouldn't it be appropriate (less irritating) to get your own 'Post referendum, pre Brexit negative news' thread started?


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## stockwellcat.

samuelsmiles said:


> Look, wouldn't it be appropriate (less irritating) to get your own 'Post referendum, pre Brexit negative news' thread started?


Oh don't do that they have already posted enough negativity on previous threads. We won't hear the of it.


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## stockwellcat.

KittenKong said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> It might be "good news" pre Brexit, but will it be *post Brexit?.*


Hasn't happened yet.
Let's have some positivity with some good news at least.


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## KittenKong

samuelsmiles said:


> Look, wouldn't it be appropriate (less irritating) to get your own 'Post referendum, pre Brexit negative news' thread started?


If I did I'm sure you and other Brexiteers would soon contribute your thoughts if I was to start such a thread.

I would respect your right to do that, so why the upset or irritation of me and others commenting our thoughts on a "positive pro Brexit" thread?

Why the comment anyway? I thought we still live in a free country? Are you seriously suggesting our thoughts should be silenced because you don't agree with them?


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## Satori

samuelsmiles said:


> Look, wouldn't it be appropriate (less irritating) to get your own 'Post referendum, pre Brexit negative news' thread started?


That's a brilliant idea. We could even have a sub-forum under general chat; "Brexit Whinge-fest", from which anyone with a positive outlook would be summarily banned? Honestly, @KittenKong and similar I wouldn't post on any official doom and gloom threads. Wouldn't even peek underneath your collective cloak of misery.


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## Goblin

So, let's have a biased thread instead of a balanced one on something as important as the livelyhoods of everyone in the UK. People can go and read the Daily Mail and the like if they want something like that.

I agree it is good news. I'll look at this thread after the 5% general price rise for basic groceries hit, likely after Christmas.


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## cheekyscrip

So glad. Here jobs are lost and costs of living went up by 20%. All projects stopped. More jobs to go.
Along with our future.

So maybe in comparison with Aleppo we are ok?

But hardly optimistic.

Your gain if any is definitely at cost of our everything.

So just do not tell me I am.moaning if with large family plus animals we can be jobless and homeless for how we pay mortgage?
Neither able to sell the house ...
OH is furious I am smoking again.
I am just totally stressed out.

My son is doing A levels and asking if he would be able to study...
What can I tell him?

All my children ask what will happen if they trade Gibraltar to Spain and as you can imagine Spain will not accept any deals with Britain without surrender of The Rock.

May just spoke to Rajoy and got it very clear.

Do tell me more about moaning..

Wonder though if it was your family ?


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## Apollo2012

It's nice to hear something positive. 

I'm so sick of all the doom and gloom around something that hasn't even completly happened yet. I voted to leave, yes there is a ton of uncertainty about leaving the eu but people dont help by being completly pessimistic about it, we weren't getting anywhere by being in the eu, we managed nothing during talks with them before Brexit, it wasn't going to change. We know there will be hard years, we also don't know what will happen in the long run but all the constant doom and gloom headlines about things that havent happened yet don't do anything apart from cause more tension. I was watching about the various car manufacturers saying they were looking at moving because it may cost them more to export etc, but in the same vein if other countries did that to us then it would happen to them. The same as people worrying they will be sent home when we exit the eu but if we sent people who now live and work here back to 'their countries' then they would do the same to the British migrants.

I don't know why so many people are looking at this like the glass is half empty and not sucking it up and trying to look at the glass as half full. Yes change is scary, yes change can be hard and can be for the worse but it can also be for the better. If you never take a chance you will never know. it's not like we're being set adrift in the ocean and have no power or say over anything anymore, people act like we're suddenly nobody but we're not, plenty of countries are interested in working with us, trading with us. 

The European union isn't the be all and end all we were good before the EU and we can be good after the EU.


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## westie~ma

KittenKong said:


> If I did I'm sure you and other Brexiteers would soon contribute your thoughts if I was to start such a thread.
> 
> I would respect your right to do that, so why the upset or irritation of me and others commenting our thoughts on a "positive pro Brexit" thread?
> 
> Why the comment anyway? I thought we still live in a free country? Are you seriously suggesting our thoughts should be silenced because you don't agree with them?


On another thread I'm considered away with the fairies for voting leave ... and being Welsh.


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## cheekyscrip

westie~ma said:


> On another thread I'm considered away with the fairies for voting leave ... and being Welsh.


You know it was not meant this way.. I found Ms Wood just incredibly stupid and actually annoying for both sides...she is the one " out with the fairies" for speaking that utter rubbish...
Suggesting Welsh voters did not understand" leave" stands for" out of single market and free movement"?
Therefore now that they finally understood they want to take it back?

If she was campaigning for Remain I finally understand what happened in Wales...


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## Goblin

Apollo2012 said:


> It's nice to hear something positive.
> I'm so sick of all the doom and gloom around something that hasn't even completly happened yet. I voted to leave, yes there is a ton of uncertainty about leaving the eu but people dont help by being completly pessimistic about it


Not being pessimistic, being realistic based on facts.



Apollo2012 said:


> ]we weren't getting anywhere by being in the eu


You are joking aren't you. An old list:


> providing 40% of our trade; structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline; clean beaches and rivers; cleaner air; lead free petrol; restrictions on landfill dumping; a recycling culture; cheaper mobile charges; cheaper air travel; improved consumer protection and food labelling; a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives; better product safety; single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance; break up of monopolies; Europe-wide patent and copyright protection; no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market; price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone; freedom to travel, live and work across Europe; funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad; access to European health services; labour protection and enhanced social welfare; smoke-free workplaces; equal pay legislation; holiday entitlement; the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime; strongest wildlife protection in the world; improved animal welfare in food production; EU-funded research and industrial collaboration; Representation in international forums; European arrest warrant; cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;


Not forgetting an actual say enabling the the UK to influence the direction the EU. Uk fishing in EU waters out of preference is yet another one.



> The same as people worrying they will be sent home when we exit the eu but if we sent people who now live and work here back to 'their countries' then they would do the same to the British migrant


Why, when most are protected by EU law, long term residency and human rights.



> I don't know why so many people are looking at this like the glass is half empty and not sucking it up and trying to look at the glass as half full.


Yes, you can always look at the glass as half empty. A good example of that is failing to recognise what the EU has done for the UK and it's people.



> Yes change is scary, yes change can be hard and can be for the worse but it can also be for the better. If you never take a chance you will never know. it's not like we're being set adrift in the ocean and have no power or say over anything anymore


So what say are you having about the terms of BREXIT? Over 50% of the country are being ignored.



> The European union isn't the be all and end all we were good before the EU and we can be good after the EU.


There's been a little thing called globalisation since then. We'll survive, I do not doubt that. It's not likely to be better and the people who will suffer are people less well-off.


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## Milliepoochie

Apollo2012 said:


> It's nice to hear something positive.
> 
> I'm so sick of all the doom and gloom around something that hasn't even completly happened yet. I voted to leave, yes there is a ton of uncertainty about leaving the eu but people dont help by being completly pessimistic about it, we weren't getting anywhere by being in the eu, we managed nothing during talks with them before Brexit, it wasn't going to change. We know there will be hard years, we also don't know what will happen in the long run but all the constant doom and gloom headlines about things that havent happened yet don't do anything apart from cause more tension. I was watching about the various car manufacturers saying they were looking at moving because it may cost them more to export etc, but in the same vein if other countries did that to us then it would happen to them. The same as people worrying they will be sent home when we exit the eu but if we sent people who now live and work here back to 'their countries' then they would do the same to the British migrants.
> 
> I don't know why so many people are looking at this like the glass is half empty and not sucking it up and trying to look at the glass as half full. Yes change is scary, yes change can be hard and can be for the worse but it can also be for the better. If you never take a chance you will never know. it's not like we're being set adrift in the ocean and have no power or say over anything anymore, people act like we're suddenly nobody but we're not, plenty of countries are interested in working with us, trading with us.
> 
> The European union isn't the be all and end all we were good before the EU and we can be good after the EU.


It's not about being worried about being sent home.

The damage is so much deeper than that.

We know that's not likely to happen- the UK cannot afford to loose EU workers.

What has upset thousands of hard EU workers who have make the Uk their home - Invested taxes - pensions in the UK - purchased property and contributed to society in the UK is the fact that 52% of the population voted again such people.

Whether forced to leave or not is irrelevant it's the notion.

That people are having to apply for permanent residency and then citizenship to allow them to know their life / money and rights in the UK are safe.

A lot of EU workers and their families are certainly not scared of change having chosen to move to another country away from what they know with possibly just a few £100 and their glass certainly has to be half full or you wouldn't be able to do this.

I Know a lot of EU workers - professional people and a lot of very upset people genuinely worried for their families future in a country they considered 'Home'.

It's hard to be positive when it's your family and loved ones going through it.


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## westie~ma

cheekyscrip said:


> You know it was not meant this way.. I found Ms Wood just incredibly stupid and actually annoying for both sides...she is the one " out with the fairies" for speaking that utter rubbish...
> Suggesting Welsh voters did not understand" leave" stands for" out of single market and free movement"?
> Therefore now that they finally understood they want to take it back?
> 
> If she was campaigning for Remain I finally understand what happened in Wales...


I have no grype with you @cheekyscrip but I'm on the ground here in Wales and while not a "overly" polictical I do keep myself aware of what is going on.

Leanne Woods is whistling in the wind, she has 11 AMs atm less than half of Labour in Wales. She's spouting about the uk welcoming immigrants where as I know myself living here that unless you are born in certain parts you are considered "incomers" (I mean a Welsh person moving from one part of Wales to another) oh yes even in this day and age I've faced it head on, so please don't believe the twt that this woman is telling anyone who will listen.

Wales has a huge moutain to climb, under funded for decades (not years) we are one of the poorest areas of Europe, despite that the vote was to leave because the EU wanted a military force, they wanted their own tax bracket to impose on us.

As a nation imposed on for eons (read about it) I'd had enough!!!!!


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## cheekyscrip

westie~ma said:


> I have no grype with you @cheekyscrip but I'm on the ground here in Wales and while not a "overly" polictical I do keep myself aware of what is going on.
> 
> Leanne Woods is whistling in the wind, she has 11 AMs atm less than half of Labour in Wales. She's spouting about the uk welcoming immigrants where as I know myself living here that unless you are born in certain parts you are considered "incomers" (I mean a Welsh person moving from one part of Wales to another) oh yes even in this day and age I've faced it head on, so please don't believe the twt that this woman is telling anyone who will listen.
> 
> Wales has a huge moutain to climb, under funded for decades (not years) we are one of the poorest areas of Europe, despite that the vote was to leave because the EU wanted a military force, they wanted their own tax bracket to impose on us.
> 
> As a nation imposed on for eons (read about it) I'd had enough!!!!!


Aware of situation in Wales. Been sent to Bangor!!!
Though EU cannot be blamed for that . Same as for North East of England. Lived in Hull for two years.
Same as EU cannot be blamed for situation in Andalusia or La Mancha.

Or any particular region of any EU member.

If anything things might get worse. No more EU subsidies for example.

Anyhow "incomers" we could well be
as OH has Welsh surname and origin.
You understand that here it might be game over.
No guarantees coming from UK make companies close and move.
Don't you think at least we have right to know?


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## noushka05

I'm really glad there is some positive news, unfortunately the many negatives overshadow it for me. I'm very worried for the future of this country. Its becoming a place I dont recognise anymore.



westie~ma said:


> They aren't out of the woods yet but some good news
> http://m.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/tatasteel
> 
> Hubby's business too doing better due to dip in pound (aerospace).


I'm not reading that link as good news Maybe its because I'm a pessimistic remoaner lol

Seriously though, the EU are trying to help protect British steel & UK jobs, Theresa May is blocking the move. (my hubby works in the steel industry). http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d380602a-962f-11e6-914a-7a36010296b9



westie~ma said:


> I have no grype with you @cheekyscrip but I'm on the ground here in Wales and while not a "overly" polictical I do keep myself aware of what is going on.
> 
> Leanne Woods is whistling in the wind, she has 11 AMs atm less than half of Labour in Wales. She's spouting about the uk welcoming immigrants where as I know myself living here that unless you are born in certain parts you are considered "incomers" (I mean a Welsh person moving from one part of Wales to another) oh yes even in this day and age I've faced it head on, so please don't believe the twt that this woman is telling anyone who will listen.
> 
> Wales has a huge moutain to climb, under funded for decades (not years) we are one of the poorest areas of Europe, despite that the vote was to leave because the EU wanted a military force, they wanted their own tax bracket to impose on us.
> 
> As a nation imposed on for eons (read about it) I'd had enough!!!!!


Because Wales is a poor area it is a significant beneficiary of EU funding. As are our other poorest regions (mine included). If the government fails to match the EU money we receive, we stand to get even poorer than we are now.


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## Satori

Milliepoochie said:


> What has upset thousands of hard EU workers who have make the Uk their home... ...is the fact that 52% of the population voted again such people.


Hmmm, no. That didn't even appear on my ballot paper.


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## westie~ma

cheekyscrip said:


> Aware of situation in Wales. Been sent to Bangor!!!
> Though EU cannot be blamed for that . Same as for North East of England. Lived in Hull for two years.
> Same as EU cannot be blamed for situation in Andalusia or La Mancha.
> 
> Or any particular region of any EU member.
> 
> If anything things might get worse. No more EU subsidies for example.
> 
> Anyhow "incomers" we could well be
> as OH has Welsh surname and origin.
> You understand that here it might be game over.
> No guarantees coming from UK make companies close and move.
> *Don't you think at least we have right to know?*


Nobody knows what is going to happen, that's the thing, they need time to hash out a deal.

This thread was about some good news, which was why I posted.


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## westie~ma

noushka05 said:


> I'm really glad there is some positive news, unfortunately the many negatives overshadow it for me. I'm very worried for the future of this country. Its becoming a place I dont recognise anymore.
> 
> I'm not reading that link as good news Maybe its because I'm a pessimistic remoaner lol
> 
> Seriously though, the EU are trying to help protect British steel & UK jobs, Theresa May is blocking the move. (my hubby works in the steel industry). http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d380602a-962f-11e6-914a-7a36010296b9
> 
> *Because Wales is a poor area it is a significant beneficiary of EU funding. As are our other poorest regions (mine included). If the government fails to match the EU money we receive, we stand to get even poorer than we are now.*


Which is why for me it was such a tough decision which way to vote.


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## rona

Milliepoochie said:


> the fact that 52% of the population voted again such people.


Still peddling this old opinion as fact. As one of the 52%, this wasn't a fact in my voting. I wasn't stupid enough like some of the remoaners believe to think that the likes of the BNP wouldn't take advantage of it, but have far more faith in my country and the people within to stamp on them PDQ.


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## Goblin

rona said:


> Still peddling this old opinion as fact. As one of the 52%, this wasn't a fact in my voting. I wasn't stupid enough like some of the remoaners believe to think that the likes of the BNP wouldn't take advantage of it, but have far more faith in my country and the people within to stamp on them PDQ.


May not be why so many people voted but still encourages racism and nationalism. Not helped by the government who actively condoned it during their party conference.


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## samuelsmiles

I've found 148 jobs within the environment industry which may be of interest to those of us who care and are concerned about our country.

I did find more - so just pm me if you can't find what you're looking for. 

*148 jobs within the environment industry.*


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## stockwellcat.

Third Runway at Heathrow has been given the go ahead which means more jobs available during and after its construction. Obviously this means it has to be debated next year but has a large backing in parliament. This is great news as it is job creating and shows Britain is also open for business as Heathrow is the main freight flight hub in the UK.


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## Goblin

stockwellcat said:


> Third Runway at Heathrow has been given the go ahead which means


 as the UK is leaving the UK it doesn't concern itself with breaking EU pollution limits. So I take it you would be happy to live nearby then?


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## Lurcherlad

noushka05 said:


> I'm really glad there is some positive news, unfortunately the many negatives overshadow it for me. I'm very worried for the future of this country. Its becoming a place I dont recognise anymore.


I've thought that for years tbh. 

Long before Brexit.


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## stockwellcat.

Goblin said:


> as the UK is leaving the Uk it doesn't concern itself with breaking EU pollution limits. So I take it you would be happy to live nearby then?


No that is wrong. This is being taken into account so the UK meets it's commitments to reduce air pollution and noise pollution. Chris Grayling just covered this in his Speach in Parliament. There is also going to be a committee created in the new year to keep these in check. He said there will be 6 and a half hours a day of no flights into Heathrow and residents near the flight path will be compensated and have sound proofing and noise reduction stuff added to there properties eg triple glazed windows etc.

The UK isn't leaving the UK it is impossible 

So less negativity please.


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## cheekyscrip

stockwellcat said:


> Third Runway at Heathrow has been given the go ahead which means more jobs available during and after its construction. Obviously this means it has to be debated next year but has a large backing in parliament. This is great news as it is job creating and shows Britain is also open for business as Heathrow is the main freight flight hub in the UK.


Fantastic news..some historical villages and woodlands destroyed...

In times when crashing pound means Brits would travel much less...everywhere..
Then going to EU might be less spontaneous than just jumping on the plane...

And the end of freedom of movement might somewhat complicate simple shopping trip to London.

So yes...UK really need to expand their airports right now...


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## Goblin

stockwellcat said:


> No that is wrong. This is being taken into account so the UK meets it's commitments to reduce air pollution and noise pollution. Chris Grayling just covered this in his Speach in Parliament. There is also going to be a committee created in the new year to keep these in check. He said there will be 6 and a half hours a day of no flights into Heathrow and residents near the flight path will be compensated and have sound proofing and noise reduction stuff added to there properties eg triple glazed windows etc.


Oh a politician said... You realise the research which was used to justify "below EU pollution" relied on proviso that traffic would become "cleaner" and less polluting. The research was not peer reviewed or even published. So what policies are being enacted to ensure cars pollute even less than current EU guidelines? Ban all diesel cars would be a good start.

All of this ignores the fact that pollution levels around heathrow sometimes already break the EU limits so please explain how adding more pollution/traffic and creating a commitee is going to help?



> The UK isn't leaving the UK it is impossible


Corrected.



> So less negativity please.


Truth is truth, not simply when it is not inconvenient.


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## cheekyscrip

Clearly even some Tories do not think it is such a great idea...


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## MollySmith

I'm reading all posts avidly, I need to read _something_ positive about Brexit.


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## cheekyscrip

MollySmith said:


> I'm reading all posts avidly, I need to read _something_ positive about Brexit.


But it is a bit like finding Wally...
At least in finance section.


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## Goblin

westie~ma said:


> Wales has a huge moutain to climb, under funded for decades (not years) we are one of the poorest areas of Europe, despite that the vote was to leave because the EU wanted a military force


EU miltary force isn't an EU army. It's closer cooperation and ability to do things which at the moment they cannot. Sharing potential resources where necessary such as transport. Not that much different to NATO at the end of the days but trying to be able to cope without the USA. How many people realised that sort of decision the UK could veto and scupper at any time? That veto could not be removed.


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## westie~ma

Goblin said:


> EU miltary force isn't an EU army. It's closer cooperation and ability to do things which at the moment they cannot. Sharing potential resources where necessary such as transport. Not that much different to NATO at the end of the days but trying to be able to cope without the USA. How many people realised that sort of decision the UK could veto and scupper at any time? That veto could not be removed.


I knew uk has a veto. Would they use it though?

Really can't see the point of another level on top of what NATO do. My husband used to work in the defence industry


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## Goblin

westie~ma said:


> I knew uk has a veto. Would they use it though?
> 
> Really can't see the point of another level on top of what NATO do. My husband used to work in the defence industry


Used to work in industry myself and know several people in armed forces both current and retired. Question of would the government use veto, they indicated they would if the issue was raised. As to NATO, at the moment the only forces capable of being self sufficient are the US and the UK. Wouldn't it make sense that the EU could move it's forces where needed without assistance and support itself? Would you prefer to have a stronger military in the EU itself, not through enlargement but capability? At present NATO is basically US + others. UK forces are respected throughout but the US is judged to "lead". Can you imagine that being "led" by Trump?


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## samuelsmiles

Some very good news regarding the economy this morning.


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## stockwellcat.

samuelsmiles said:


> Some very good news regarding the economy this morning.


Yes I saw this good news. The economy has risen (grew) by half a percent (0.5%) in the last quarter which is very good news as it shows how resilient the UK economy is and the New Nissan SUV Qashqai will be made in Sunderland and not abroad in Europe somewhere.


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## westie~ma

Good news indeed. 

My hubs works for an American firm, his boss was over here and wanted to buy a luxury bag for his wife (taking advantage of weak pound), wanted several items, the shop was only allowing one purchase per customer.


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## rona

westie~ma said:


> the shop was only allowing one purchase per customer.


WHY?


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## Satori

rona said:


> WHY?


Austerity.


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## Goblin

Yep, economy is doing fine at present, not having handed in article 50. Household debt is continually rising. That's before the price hikes arrive for essentials...


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## samuelsmiles

.Marmite has seen an upturn in sales this past week.


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## grumpy goby

rona said:


> The first post is a positive isn't it? I can't see what's negative about putting more planes and traffic into an already built up area rather than the alternatives. Even Gatwick would be a huge mistake.
> 
> I'd rather we didn't have to have it at all but Heathrow is the best option


I dunno.... I lived next to the runway, and the noise was barable. I have family near heathrow and it is astonishingly loud. My grandads funeral had to pause for a plane overhead... Crawley has little "work" options compared to maybe 15 years ago (when there was alot of manufacturing and engineering in the manor royal)- I was one of many apprentices, Gatwick has always been a good employer for training and opportunities for local people. They take a handful of apprentices every year, as do many of the airlines in the area - alot of the towns industry (whats left of it) supports Gatwick. I genuinly feel that it would affect less people, less homes, and have a great impact on the local economy.
Heathrow will affect a huge amount of homes, and people in comparison. And the noise levels are already too high, without additional traffic.

The only positive i can see is that the restrictions on noise and pollution will make it SO difficult for heathrow, that they will really have to do something amazing to improve things in order to comply.

I would be very suprised if gatwick didnt continue to push for its runway anyway. Its owned by an investment company who will be wanting to sell it off with planning permission in place...

aaaaaaaaanyway. Post referendum downers for me, the exchange rate dropped hugely and really impacted the amount of money I got when I sold up and moved abroad! it was $2.6 when i applied for my visa... its now around $1.7. It lost me alot of money! Ho hum. At least my bucks will go further when i come back home :Bag

I do hope for the sake of everyone affected, that it doesnt take its toll once the ball is rolling! Hopefully this is early signs of future stability, although I suspect it may be a calm before the storm. But I am no economist!


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## noushka05

stockwellcat said:


> No that is wrong. This is being taken into account so the UK meets it's commitments to reduce air pollution and noise pollution. Chris Grayling just covered this in his Speach in Parliament. There is also going to be a committee created in the new year to keep these in check. He said there will be 6 and a half hours a day of no flights into Heathrow and residents near the flight path will be compensated and have sound proofing and noise reduction stuff added to there properties eg triple glazed windows etc.
> 
> The UK isn't leaving the UK it is impossible
> 
> So less negativity please.


I'm sorry but if you believe building another runway is going to some how _reduce _air pollution and noise pollution, you'll fall for anything. Grayling doesn't even take climate change seriously - he just sees it as an 'issue'  Pre-brexit Theresa May said she would 'fight to stop third runway'. Funny that.










Heathrows runway overvalued by £86 Billion. Buried government figures reveal benefit to economy VASTLY exaggerated. Oh dear.. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heathrow-overvalued-by-86bn-lx2w5tfnh Pity they can't find any money to save our NHS though.

This isn't negativity - this is reality.












samuelsmiles said:


> Some very good news regarding the economy this morning.





stockwellcat said:


> Yes I saw this good news. The economy has risen (grew) by half a percent (0.5%) in the last quarter which is very good news as it shows how resilient the UK economy is and the New Nissan SUV Qashqai will be made in Sunderland and not abroad in Europe somewhere.


Basically brexit means give businesses financial support to do what they did for free before.

So Theresa May concludes the referendum gave her a mandate to spend our taxes on bribing foreign investors stay & not on our own NHS. You don't have any problem with this?


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## KittenKong

Not Brexit related but some good employment related news today.

Well done Uber drivers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37802386


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## Lurcherlad

Not so sure.

It's clear from the outset that being an Uber driver is on a self employed basis. If you don't like the terms, don't take the job.

On their website:

Quote
As an *independent contractor *with Uber, you've got freedom and flexibility to drive whenever you have time. Set your own schedule, so you can be there for all of life's most important moments.
Unquote

There are a number of taxi firms round here who take on drivers as self employed. The danger is that if those companies are going to have to pay holiday and break money, etc. they will simply take on less drivers.


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## Gemmaa

So much for this just being a positive thread :Hilarious


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## KittenKong

Lurcherlad said:


> Not so sure.
> 
> It's clear from the outset that being an Uber driver is on a self employed basis. If you don't like the terms, don't take the job.


Jobs aren't that easy to come by. While I accept people are entitled to work on a self employed basis if they wish it shouldn't be the only option. Reminds me of those jobs that paid, "Commission only" and of course zero hours contracts.

Rulings to prevent firms from exploiting their staff should be welcomed in my view. Minimum wages and paid leave should be a human right.


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## rona

KittenKong said:


> Jobs aren't that easy to come by. While I accept people are entitled to work on a self employed basis if they wish it shouldn't be the only option. Reminds me of those jobs that paid, "Commission only" and of course zero hours contracts.
> 
> Rulings to prevent firms from exploiting their staff should be welcomed in my view. Minimum wages and paid leave should be a human right.


If I started a job as self employed and was then told I was employed with all that entails, I'd be pretty damn peeved


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## KittenKong

It isn't just Uber of course. As I said self employment should be an option, but not the only option. If that's used as a loophole to prevent paying holidays and the minimum wage I consider that wrong.

Something in Durham at the moment about the possibility of teaching assistants losing their out of term holiday pay. Many of them have mortgages!

I wish them the best of luck too.


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## rona

Has anyone actually polled the drivers, or is it just a loud few that are leading this?


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## KittenKong

rona said:


> If I started a job as self employed and was then told I was employed with all that entails, I'd be pretty damn peeved


Conversely I was in a position of "self employment" many years ago but not through choice. It was the best thing that ever happened being taken on permanently with full holiday entitlements and full time hours!


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## Lurcherlad

KittenKong said:


> Jobs aren't that easy to come by. While I accept people are entitled to work on a self employed basis if they wish it shouldn't be the only option. Reminds me of those jobs that paid, "Commission only" and of course zero hours contracts.
> 
> Rulings to prevent firms from exploiting their staff should be welcomed in my view. Minimum wages and paid leave should be a human right.


I'm all for fairness, however, if people aren't happy with the terms offered in a certain job they are at liberty to take a risk and start their own company too.

It's a fine line between getting the balance right and fair for workers as well as employers. Sometimes I think things are a bit skewed.

Exploitation - No

Fairness - Yes


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## Lurcherlad

rona said:


> Has anyone actually polled the drivers, or is it just a loud few that are leading this?


I get a bit suspicious of people who take a job knowing the terms, then want to create issues.

Is there a reason why those 2 drivers couldn't just set up as independents?

I believe in London you can't be a Black Cabbie without passing The Knowledge which takes time and money.

Is it fair for Uber drivers to be able to pretty much just pitch up and take their business?

I wouldn't take an Uber cab, only a Black cab.


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## Vanessa131

KittenKong said:


> It isn't just Uber of course. As I said self employment should be an option, but not the only option. If that's used as a loophole to prevent paying holidays and the minimum wage I consider that wrong.
> 
> Something in Durham at the moment about the possibility of teaching assistants losing their out of term holiday pay. Many of them have mortgages!
> 
> I wish them the best of luck too.


I note those TAs on the whole don't agree with TA's in other areas being paid for not working! They already received 28 days of holiday pay, to wish to continue to keep more is pure greed. They are literally stealing money from SEND children!


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## KittenKong

To be honest I don't know the terms and conditions of teaching assistants and was not aware they were not being paid outside term time in some areas. I'm not in the teaching profession.

It isn't their fault schools are closed during holiday periods. I guess if they were already getting 28 days paid leave they could only take holidays outside term time.

Perhaps you can use your argument to suggest all teaching staff shouldn't be paid outside term time?


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## Vanessa131

KittenKong said:


> To be honest I don't know the terms and conditions of teaching assistants and was not aware they were not being paid outside term time in some areas. I'm not in the teaching profession.
> 
> It isn't their fault schools are closed during holiday periods. I guess if they were already getting 28 days paid leave they could only take holidays outside term time.
> 
> Perhaps you can use your argument to suggest all teaching staff shouldn't be paid outside term time?


Teaching staff aren't paid for the holidays, just like most TAs they receive 28 days of holiday pay spread out through their monthly wages.

Schools aren't closed during holiday periods, but us TAs don't work during the holiday period. Someone shouldn't be paid for working 253 days when they actually work 195 days.


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## KittenKong

Vanessa131 said:


> Schools aren't closed during holiday periods, but us TAs don't work during the holiday period. Someone shouldn't be paid for working 253 days when they actually work 195 days.


Just goes to show how it's better to hear from someone in the profession rather than to rely on what's reported in the media, (say no more!). Perhaps I've misunderstood the whole situation, are teaching assistants in Durham at risk of losing their 28 day entitlement to holiday pay? More research is needed into it, not via the media I hasten to add.


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## Vanessa131

KittenKong said:


> Just goes to show how it's better to hear from someone in the profession rather than to rely on what's reported in the media, (say no more!). Perhaps I've misunderstood the whole situation, are teaching assistants in Durham at risk of losing their 28 day entitlement to holiday pay? More research is needed into it, not via the media I hasten to add.


No they're not as they're legally entitled to it (if working full time during term time although I think technically 20 days would be the minimum holiday pay). In Durham they are paid as though they work five days a week 52 weeks of the year, where as in reality they only work 36 weeks (if working fulltime).

So other TAs get paid for 36 weeks and their holiday pay, so in total 42 weeks per year, where as in Durham they are getting paid for an extra ten weeks that they aren't entitled to in other areas as we aren't at work and we don't get paid for sitting on our bums, and rightly so!

This is made worse by the fact that our wages are partially funded by a childs PP, EHCP funds etc, so in Durham massive paid holidays are being prioritised over the pupils! The money saved by removing the ten weeks for each TA would go a long way in helping SEND children.

If the changes go ahead (I hope they do) the staff will be given compensation payments, as it stands the pay scale for Durham TAs is one of the highest in the country which would mean after the changes a starting salary of £14.5k a year. Thats far higher than many where the salary is typically £11k a year.


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## Goblin

As promised by the leave campaign:










Okay, leave campaign bus actually said NHS but never mind. Supporting individual companies is far more important isn't it.


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## samuelsmiles

*Brexit could be positive for UK arts industry 'if right decisions are made' *


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## KittenKong

Vanessa131 said:


> No they're not as they're legally entitled to it (if working full time during term time although I think technically 20 days would be the minimum holiday pay). In Durham they are paid as though they work five days a week 52 weeks of the year, where as in reality they only work 36 weeks (if working fulltime).
> 
> So other TAs get paid for 36 weeks and their holiday pay, so in total 42 weeks per year, where as in Durham they are getting paid for an extra ten weeks that they aren't entitled to in other areas as we aren't at work and we don't get paid for sitting on our bums, and rightly so!
> 
> This is made worse by the fact that our wages are partially funded by a childs PP, EHCP funds etc, so in Durham massive paid holidays are being prioritised over the pupils! The money saved by removing the ten weeks for each TA would go a long way in helping SEND children.
> 
> If the changes go ahead (I hope they do) the staff will be given compensation payments, as it stands the pay scale for Durham TAs is one of the highest in the country which would mean after the changes a starting salary of £14.5k a year. Thats far higher than many where the salary is typically £11k a year.


I perfectly understand where you're coming from. I had no idea rates of pay differs in other local authorities.

Would make more sense to me if they standardised the current Durham rate countrywide. After all it isn't their fault they've been paid this way, only to be told not for much longer.

It can be argued no work, no pay. Do you think MPs and the likes work 52 weeks a year and are justified in pay rises way above the rate of inflation while the rest of us may get 1%( or even face a pay cut), if we're very lucky?!

I won't begin to comment on some members of the "public sector celebs" who take extended holidays and "gap years" all at the taxpayers' expense. Don't hear much criticism about that do we?

It amazes me how governments (Labour and Tory), bleat on about having to cut costs yet are able to bail out banks and give financial support to foreign firms.

Yes, it is good news for the employees of Nissan after months of uncertainty. A pity past governments didn't have the same consideration for Rover, the last true British car manufacturer.


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## Vanessa131

KittenKong said:


> I perfectly understand where you're coming from. I had no idea rates of pay differs in other local authorities.
> 
> Would make more sense to me if they standardised the current Durham rate countrywide. After all it isn't their fault they've been paid this way, only to be told not for much longer.
> 
> It can be argued no work, no pay. Do you think MPs and the likes work 52 weeks a year and are justified in pay rises way above the rate of inflation while the rest of us may get 1%( or even face a pay cut), if we're very lucky?!
> 
> I won't begin to comment on some members of the "public sector celebs" who take extended holidays and "gap years" all at the taxpayers' expense. Don't hear much criticism about that do we?
> 
> It amazes me how governments (Labour and Tory), bleat on about having to cut costs yet are able to bail out banks and give financial support to foreign firms.
> 
> Yes, it is good news for the employees of Nissan after months of uncertainty. A pity past governments didn't have the same consideration for Rover, the last true British car manufacturer.


Of course I don't agree with people being paid not to work, I wouldn't want the rest of the country to turn to the Durham system as being a TA I believe all SEND children need to be able to access schooling, if you look at Durham, because of highly inflated TA wages pupils are not receiving the TA hours they are legally entitled to as they cannot afford to recruit the number of TAs needed.

Sadly the TAs of Durham don't see their pupils as a priority.


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## KittenKong

[QUOTE="Vanessa131, post: 1064689508, member: being a TA I believe all SEND children need to be able to access schooling, if you look at Durham, because of highly inflated TA wages pupils are not receiving the TA hours they are legally entitled to as they cannot afford to recruit the number of TAs needed.

Sadly the TAs of Durham don't see their pupils as a priority.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree all SEND children need access to schooling, but I would be inclined to blame the government for not making this a financial priority. With the cost of living rising the slightest reduction in wage is the last thing anyone would need.

With all due respect I thought your last paragraph was a bit strong. That's like suggesting healthcare workers don't see their patients as a priority with the emotional blackmail that a pay rise, however small would mean less to spend on patient care. This may certainly be the case with TAs at present. I believe it's very wrong.

David Cameron used to bleat on about his beloved "Big Society" nation of volunteers. In the real world you can't live on fresh air.

Bills and taxes have to be paid, food needs to be purchased. The cost of living is rising. A pay cut is the last thing anyone needs.

In the meantime MPs get their over inflated pay rises and some bankers the government at the time bailed out with taxpayers' money continue to get their huge bonuses.


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## MilleD

KittenKong said:


> Would make more sense to me if they standardised the current Durham rate countrywide.


Not a chance. The system is so poorly funded in some areas there is a crisis point approaching.


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## noushka05

And now here come the pharmaceuticals demanding £1 billion a year to replace lost EU funding - http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/b...ants-demand-1bn-to-fill-funding-gap-j906q69x6

Personally I'd rather we gave all that money to the NHS not pharmaceuticals & car manufacturers.


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## Goblin

Lot harder to spin Brexit when people are losing jobs though.


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## cheekyscrip

Maybe before more damage is done time to realise there will be no 350 mln for NHS and stop that Brexit malarkey?


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## Milliepoochie

Well there's likely a lot of money being made from all the EU Nationals now applying for Permanent Residency and then Citizenship. 

With Citizenship at £1250 a pop and that's without the cost of the Life on the UK Test - The English Qualification and Biometric information being taken all three elements have costs associated with them. 

Nice little money earner there and means officially less EU workers in the U.K.


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## cheekyscrip

Milliepoochie said:


> Well there's likely a lot of money being made from all the EU Nationals now applying for Permanent Residency and then Citizenship.
> 
> With Citizenship at £1250 a pop and that's without the cost of the Life on the UK Test - The English Qualification and Biometric information being taken all three elements have costs associated with them.
> 
> Nice little money earner there and means officially less EU workers in the U.K.


Hmmm..
But EU might steal that idea too...
Plus taxes on holiday homes for non EU...
Spain has high hopes...


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