# one gerbil died, need advice.



## danlightbulb

Hi all.

Had my pair of gerbils (male) for just over 2 years now. Unfortunately one passed away today. He had seemed to be getting thinner for a few weeks now (no other signs of illness) so it wasn't totally unexpected, but still sad. I had been away for a few days (left them with a full dish of food and full water bottle so hopefully this wasn't the final cause).

The surviving gerbil was the dominant one of the two (and was noticeably larger than the other one).

So now I'm not sure what to do.

I have a glass aquarium which is L30 x D12 x H14 inches. I believe this works out to about 20 gallons. I also have a cage topper on it which adds another 14 inches of height. This is it currently (gerbils have made their home on the 2nd floor):










So firstly I have some questions about the setup. As you can see I currently use wood chippings (dust free from pets at home). I tend to bury various bits of cardboard I have lying around and often throw in more cardboard so it tends to build up in height until clean out day. I probably don't clean them as often as I should, every couple of months usually, but its a large tank for two gerbils so I've never had a problem with bad smells. I have never used sand before, and was thinking about trying this. I could put in about 8" of sand I think.

There also seem to be varying opinions on whether to use the cage toppers or not, so I could ditch this and make a lid. If I could get hold of a taller tank, this would also be an option but it needs to be the same length and depth to fit in the spot. The one thing I have always felt about the cage topper is that its mostly empty space. It has only 2 shelves and it would be nice to fill the topper with more 'things' although obviously food and water need to be up there too.

The surviving gerbil does use the wheel quite often, but again I could consider ditching this. If I was to ditch the cage topper, I'm not sure how the water bottle would be supported inside the tank. I put a water bottle inside a gerbil tank many years ago and they chewed through it. Would like some thoughts on the whole arrangement please - criticisms, suggestions the whole hog.

Secondly, what to do about the surviving gerbil. He is very friendly, fine with my young boys, no problems coming out of the cage. As I said before, he was noticeably bigger than the gerbil which just died and definitely the dominant one. I believe the tank is large enough to accommodate two more pups. Again there seems to be differing opinions on the internet about whether to go for one pup or two. The gerbil only died today, not sure whether I should wait a while before putting new ones in? I'd struggle with a separate cage or split cage I think with my current setup so I'd prefer a direct introduction. Need advice please.

Many thanks
Dan


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## HazelandDan

Hi Dan, Welcome to the forum!

I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your gerbil, it must be sad for you and your boys. I hope your other one is coping ok for now.

It's great to see that you have your gerbils in a tank, the cage toppers are really useful to house things like water bottles and wheels out of the way, so that you can fill the base up with substrate and give them plenty of space and depth to dig in. However, often gerbils develop obsessive gnawing behaviour on the bars and can damage their teeth - so make sure you keep an eye out for that. Toppers should always be as additional space to the tank, not compensating for a smaller tank base.

For substrate, gerbils need a really deep layer 10-12 inches deep so that they can form proper tunnel systems that hold well. The substrate itself is also important for tunnel stability, so it might be worth trying a combination of things like hay, shredded paper, cardboard (eg finacard) etc. I think from reading up on it ages ago, that sand is probably not a good idea, as for it to hold its shape it needs to be slightly damp - cold and unpleasant for gerbils. Many gerbils develop an allergy to wood shavings as they're so dusty (even the dust extracted large flaky ones) My gerbil had to be on antibiotics for a week to get over a nasty skin infection caused by this.

As for introducing your gerbil to some new companions, this is a great idea, and as you say he is a little older now (~2yr) it would be worth introducing him to a pair of young pups in my opinion.

To do this, you MUST use the split cage method. It is the only safe way of introducing gerbils as they're so territorial. Having seen first hand how my wonderful, placid gerbil turned into a raving, murderous little demon when put into a split, if there had been no mesh barrier she would have torn the new little one limb from limb.

The split cage is best done on neutral territory, so instead of trying to build it in your existing tank, you could invest in a large plastic storage box which you could convert relatively cheaply.

Your tank is 2.5 ft? In my opinion that is a little small for three gerbils, best to go for 3ft minimum, but as always for animals in captivity, the bigger the better

Gerbilnik is our resident expert and she has years of experience rescuing and introducing gerbils - she successfully guided my through our gerbil introduction over a year ago, it would not have been possible without her  hopefully she will be along soon to give you much better advice than what i can offer. Here's a link to her website, where she has a great guide to introducing gerbils:

Gerbil Introductions « Indy's Rascals Gerbil Rehome

And the eGerbil website is great to find anything you ever need to know about caring for gerbils 

eGerbil | For everything gerbil!

I hope that helps a little. Let us know how you're getting on and if there are any other questions you have, don't hesitate to ask 

Hazel x


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## GerbilNik

H&D has pretty much covered most of the stuff there :smilewinkgrin:

The only woodshavings I use and recommend are Bedmax ones. I've found any others are too dusty. Even though the pets at home ones say dust extracted I always find them terribly dusty. However it's best to use a wide range of different substrates to help hold up the tunnels. I use Woodshavings, Bedmax Xcel (cardboard squares), Hay, Paper, Loo roll, Kitchen roll and other cardboard things. 

The tank you have is too small for 3 - as H&D said, at least 3 foot. You don't need a topper for food as it's best to scatter feed in the substrate to encourage foraging. It's best to get your Gerbils teeth checked if they lose weight as could be the case they have been chipped, are overgrown or come out completely, especially if they chew on bars.

Toppers are ok if you like them, but again as H&D said, in addition to large burrowing space, not instead of. The tank you have now could probably do with another few inches of substrate to make the best use of it.


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## danlightbulb

Thanks for the replies. The current tank is 30 inches so yes 2.5 ft long. As much as I would love to, I simply do not have room for anything bigger. Does this mean that an introduction of 2 more young gerbils is out?

I would be interested to know how to build the split cage thing with the plastic tub as you mentioned.

I had a look at the teeth of the dead gerbil, they seemed ok although he did have a habit of chewing on the bars. I tried to keep the cage topped up with cardboard to try and minimise this but he still did it sometimes.

I'm about to clean him out now, so I'll add more substrate this time. I use the [email protected] woodshavings, gerbils have never shown any problems with it. I mix hay in as well and throw cardboard in all the time.

What signs of depression should I be looking for in the surviving gerbil? He seems more timid at the moment and is sleeping in a different spot now.


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## GerbilNik

danlightbulb said:


> Thanks for the replies. The current tank is 30 inches so yes 2.5 ft long. As much as I would love to, I simply do not have room for anything bigger. Does this mean that an introduction of 2 more young gerbils is out?
> 
> I would be interested to know how to build the split cage thing with the plastic tub as you mentioned.
> 
> I had a look at the teeth of the dead gerbil, they seemed ok although he did have a habit of chewing on the bars. I tried to keep the cage topped up with cardboard to try and minimise this but he still did it sometimes.
> 
> I'm about to clean him out now, so I'll add more substrate this time. I use the [email protected] woodshavings, gerbils have never shown any problems with it. I mix hay in as well and throw cardboard in all the time.
> 
> What signs of depression should I be looking for in the surviving gerbil? He seems more timid at the moment and is sleeping in a different spot now.


I would say that yes it's too small for three.

Don't clean the tank out if the other Gerbil has just passed away as getting rid of the scent of the other will just further upset the lone one. He may not outwardly show any signs of missing the other Gerbil - but by the sounds of it with you saying he's a bit more timid he's already feeling the effect.

There might not be any problems apparent with the Gerbils on the PAH stuff, but it really isn't the best for them and I'd strongly advise you to try and source something better.


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## danlightbulb

So what do I do about getting another gerbil then, just buy one?


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## GerbilNik

danlightbulb said:


> So what do I do about getting another gerbil then, just buy one?


If you can find a pup that's already a single - that's best but wont be easy. Otherwise an adult who's already alone. If you buy a single from a petshop it tends to mean there will be an odd number and one of the pups may be left and end up sold on it's own so not the best.

What area are you in? I may be able to find out if there's anything in your area.


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## danlightbulb

Im in dudley west midlands.

My local PAH had a single male in the adoption bit but they told me he was a biter so best not to put with another. 

Is 2 more definately out or is it borderline? Only 6 inches less tank size than you are saying I need. Bear in mind I have a run area in the living room as well.


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## halfeatenapple

yes but remember that is bigger than a gerbil! Plus even in a humans room, there feels a huge difference with an added foot or two. Gerbils are very territorial if I remember correctly and can easily fight if they are in too small a space (as I now see my poor babies were  )


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## danlightbulb

I cant help thinking that the cage I have is probably better than 90% of the cages that most other (uninformed) people have so even if I put 3 in there the two new ones would be better off than in your typical gerbil cage.

My setup may not be ideal but there are space limitations and its the best I can do. Im sure we'd all like a bigger house wouldnt we.


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## HazelandDan

In my opinion, it would be best to get just the one new gerbil to introduce to your existing boy. As I said before, 3 ft really is the bare minimum for 3 gerbils, but bigger would most definitely be better. By just introducing one pup/adult you will then have to re-introduce him again to another when your existing boy goes.

To build a split, you need some wood or aluminium channel glued to the box using silicone aquarium sealant. You can then put 2 layers of galvanised wire mesh (1 cm square) into the channels and make sure it's securely fixed, so gerbils cant make their way across. to convert the box you also need to cut a good sized hole in the lid and mesh that so that it's well venitllated but still escape-proof.


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## GerbilNik

danlightbulb said:


> Im in dudley west midlands.
> 
> My local PAH had a single male in the adoption bit but they told me he was a biter so best not to put with another.
> 
> Is 2 more definately out or is it borderline? Only 6 inches less tank size than you are saying I need. Bear in mind I have a run area in the living room as well.


Gerbils who are "biters" tend to be the ones who crave Gerbil company the most, so that shouldn't put you off in that respect.

Two gerbils in a 30" is borderline - it's the minimum i'd suggest - preferably you should start out at 3 feet. 3 Gerbils in that size is not a lot of room. It's not about the runaround area it's about the digging area.


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## GerbilNik

danlightbulb said:


> I cant help thinking that the cage I have is probably better than 90% of the cages that most other (uninformed) people have so even if I put 3 in there the two new ones would be better off than in your typical gerbil cage.
> 
> My setup may not be ideal but there are space limitations and its the best I can do. Im sure we'd all like a bigger house wouldnt we.


The key word there, is uninformed. You are now informed of what's best for these active animals, so upto you what you do with the information. If someone is uninformed then they have ignorance as an excuse.

This is what myself and others keep doing to try and make the "typical" gerbil tank bigger so a typical one isn't substandard and not fitted to the animal it aims to house needs.


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## danlightbulb

The [email protected] shop assistant seemed very reluctant to let me have the biter gerbil, although she did say it's up to me at the end of the day. I felt very sorry for it when I saw it but I don't have huge amounts of time to spend sorting out a biting gerbil. It was an albino gerbil, to be honest I'm not overly fond of albino animals as it implies a genetic defect which may explain the behaviour.

Given my current cage is only barely acceptable maybe I'd be better off keeping this one until it dies then not having them at all, as I can't go for anything bigger in my current house. Maybe if I get a bigger house in the future I can invest in a larger tank.


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## GerbilNik

danlightbulb said:


> The [email protected] shop assistant seemed very reluctant to let me have the biter gerbil, although she did say it's up to me at the end of the day. I felt very sorry for it when I saw it but I don't have huge amounts of time to spend sorting out a biting gerbil. It was an albino gerbil, to be honest I'm not overly fond of albino animals as it implies a genetic defect which may explain the behaviour.
> 
> Given my current cage is only barely acceptable maybe I'd be better off keeping this one until it dies then not having them at all, as I can't go for anything bigger in my current house. Maybe if I get a bigger house in the future I can invest in a larger tank.


The white gerbil is more likely to be a biter as it's probably blind or very limited sight so will be doing it out of fear. As I said earlier, there's nothing wrong with finding a single and trying to introduce it to your lone one.
It wouldn't take much time to sort out - just wear thick gloves when handling until it gets used to you.


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## danlightbulb

Really don't know what to do now.

If I introduce an single adult then I may have to do it all again in 6 to 12 months. May not find anyone who could sell me a single pup either.

I think a pair of pups would be best for when the older one dies but then the cage isn't big enough.

If I bought a plastic tub what size is required? Looking at really useful boxes. A link to a suitable size would be ideal please.


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## GerbilNik

danlightbulb said:


> Really don't know what to do now.
> 
> If I introduce an single adult then I may have to do it all again in 6 to 12 months. May not find anyone who could sell me a single pup either.
> 
> I think a pair of pups would be best for when the older one dies but then the cage isn't big enough.
> 
> If I bought a plastic tub what size is required? Looking at really useful boxes. A link to a suitable size would be ideal please.


Not sure if it helps but are you far from Manchester? I know someone who is selling a load of larger tanks?

The RUB would have to be the 145l ones, but I "think" asda or the range do a similar size - 150L for around 15 quid each.


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## danlightbulb

I could get to manchester in an hour and half or thereabouts, depends on what they are selling but dimensions are critical.

This is a 160l but its taller not wider:

160 litre

The next one down is only 110l:

110 litre


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## danlightbulb

Changed my mind on the boxes I don't want a plastic box in my living room.

There is a 32" x 14" x 17" glass aquarium on ebay which would fit in the space. This is 120 litres with not much extra footprint to my current tank which is 86 litres.

Fish Tank 32" - bare aquarium 120L | eBay

Need thoughts please it only has half hour left.


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## danlightbulb

I found a 36 x 18 x 19 perfecto tank on ebay which I have now bought. This is nearly 200 litres. 

Can I now introduce 2 pups?


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## GerbilNik

Yes that would be a good size. I would however see if you can remove some of the bottom shelves, as they tend to get in the way and prevent them building proper tunnels - it's far better having a large space where they can do that themselves. But yes sounds good :thumbup1:


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## danlightbulb

Great. I pick it up sunday. Its this one:

Gerbilarium - Large (3ft) Glass Perfecto tank cage gerbil hamster rats rodents | eBay

Now I need a water bottle that I can hang from the top mesh please. Anyone have a link?

Also, what shall I do about my current topper? It won't fit this tank without mods.

Thanks
Dan


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## danlightbulb

Hi,

Would appreciate any info on how to attach the water bottle and what to do about my cage topper please, I only have a few days to sort this out.

Thanks


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## HazelandDan

Tank looks great dan, glad you could get a good size 

I found this on amazon - I use one for my gerbils which I hang from the top - but this one has a suction cup so should attach to the side of the tank - you can just put a normal bottle in and it stops the gerbs chewing the plastic too.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Small-Water...1370472873&sr=1-23&keywords=water+bottle+pets

I can't say from experience how good it is though, they may try to chew the suction cup - maybe someone else who's used one can give you better feedback.

As for the topper - If it doesn't fit you'd have to mod it with a wooden frame to adapt it to fit the perfecto tank, otherwise it may be that you just use it as a toy for them to play with while they're out.


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## danlightbulb

The only way I can think to attach the topper would be to use a solid piece of plywood which sits on the tank, then cut a rectangular hole in the centre of it which is 30 x 12 which the topper then goes over. This means that there will be a solid 3" border around the tank topper as the tank is 36 x 18.

Is this a good method?


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