# Is it ever okay to spank a dog?



## MirandaA1 (Jan 12, 2012)

The reason I ask is that I have just come back from the park with my dog (Manchester x Patterdale, 3.5 years old, bitch). While I was chatting to a friend and her Lab (yes, not paying enough attention to Fly, I admit), Fly suddenly took off across the field, barking furiously at a woman (a stranger) approaching us from the other side of the field. It was very frightening for the woman. I called Fly twice, and she came back as if nothing had happened. I put her straight back on the lead and apologised hugely.

Fly did not go very close to the woman, and there was no danger of biting, but it is still terrifying to be on the receiving end, as you'll all understand.

My friend said that I should have walloped Fly as soon as I caught her, but I had understood from various books/trainers that I'd then have been punishing her for coming back to me.

She has done this twice before, once when a puppy, and once last year when she saw a woman emerging from the bushes on Hampstead Heath. So it's not a common behaviour, but one that clearly is completely unacceptable, and for it even to happen once is worrying.

So I am now confused. How do I make it clear that the first behaviour (running, barking at someone) is terrible, but the second behaviour (coming back when called) is good? 

And, more importantly, of course, how to prevent the running at/barking at behaviour in the first place? I shall keep her on the lead obviously until I have some kind of answer to this problem. I'll raise it with the dog trainer too, but would be useful to have people's input as well. Her recall is pretty good, as evidenced by the fact that she came back when I called. 

Writing this is making me very anxious.

Thanks very much in advance.


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## stranger23 (Nov 11, 2010)

Hitting her when she returns to you will make her not want to come back next time.

With our dog when he is off lead we often call him back to us for no reason other than we can  We call him back get him to sit and wait praise him then let him run again, my MIL hates that we do this but if every time you call them back you put them back on they wont come back when called until they are ready (just like MIL's dogs who leave her stood for hours in a feild until they are ready to return to her  )

Not sure about the rest but you should never punish a dog for returning to you even if the behaviour before that was bad they came back which is good


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Is this the bitch that you bred from? Why would you breed from a bitch with a questionable temperament . Temperament should be exemplerary.

In answer to your question, no you should not hit a dog, but you clearly need to do some training and behavioural work as this sort of behaviour could classify her as a 'dangerous' dog under current legislation.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

You have a good recall now. Any form of correction when she does recall will see you losing that. Observation is the key to prevent further incidents


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

MirandaA1 said:


> The reason I ask is that I have just come back from the park with my dog (Manchester x Patterdale, 3.5 years old, bitch). While I was chatting to a friend and her Lab (yes, not paying enough attention to Fly, I admit), Fly suddenly took off across the field, barking furiously at a woman (a stranger) approaching us from the other side of the field. It was very frightening for the woman. I called Fly twice, and she came back as if nothing had happened. I put her straight back on the lead and apologised hugely.
> 
> Fly did not go very close to the woman, and there was no danger of biting, but it is still terrifying to be on the receiving end, as you'll all understand.
> 
> ...


I would say whalloping a dog when they come back to you is the absolute worse possible thing you can do, as is bawling them out getting angry and telling them off. They are more likely not to come back when called, would you if you thought you were goint to get a clump, shouted at or a load of verbal abuse A lot of people make this mistake if the dog doesnt immediately recall, or does something it shouldnt off lead, in the misguided belief it will teach the dog its unacceptable behaviour, all it teaches most often is to make them not recall at all or get worse. Her recall is obviously good, and with two totally isolated incidence in 3 1/2 years the other when she was a puppy too and long ago, I wouldnt go in a flat spin of panic just yet.

Have a word with your trainer and ask her to show you how to teach a distance wait and down too if possible. These are two of the most useful commands you can have, taught well, it can stop a dog dead in its tracks and stay put in a wait and then you can follow with the recall back. If you teach a distance down too to follow the wait and distance stay, you can even get her to stay put until you go and get her. I always teach wait, until I call you, stay until I come and get you.

Certainly saved Nanuq when she got out of her harness and loose in a freak accident on a busy road, as she started to run off and halted immediately on the wait and stayed put. Should keep her out of trouble too if you can stop her dead in mid flight awaiting the next command.


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## MirandaA1 (Jan 12, 2012)

Thank you for all your comments, and advice.

Rocco33, yes, you're right, I was stupid, ignorant, and naive to breed from Fly. I've learned that - and a lot more - from these forums. Including to insist that the owners of her puppies be neutered (which they have all agreed to, and as I see them all regularly, this can be "enforced", as it were), and to spay Fly (Oct 16th). Never again.

I find these forums fantastically helpful, so am very grateful for the help that more experienced people can offer.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

I teach 'Leave' as this can often stop dogs in their tracks, then I recall them, but you need a good strong leave, another alternative is to work on the emergency down, or a chase recall. 

You don't have to smack your dog - that would make her wonder why she bothered coming back, but equally I would not reward her when she comes back either. It's not her fault she hasn't been trained not to rush across the pak barking, but she should return the first time you call her.


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## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

If ever you feel the need to spank/wallop/hit your dog, you should give yourself a slap for allowing the dog to be in a situation to make the mistake.

Sorry to be blunt but I really don't think that most dogs understand the concept of physical punishment.


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

Who ever thinks that is ok is mental.. Even when one of my dogs went car chasing i didnt want to hit her!!!! 

You have to reward the dog for coming back to you, someone said to me once what would you do if your dog had bit someone but then came back to you when called? Thats when you learn to smile and swear and swear at the dog! You must reward for coming back, and then sort out the other issue at another time, you hit the dog then that dog will not come back again. 

Physicality does nothing to a dog in most cases, it just pi**es it off and will encourage bad behaviour.


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## Nikkisun (May 21, 2012)

Threadbutting here but how do you train to stop them running across the park to see other dogs/people?

Cooper is nearly 5 months and the excitement of seeing others just gets too much for him and off he goes!


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Nikkisun said:


> Threadbutting here but how do you train to stop them running across the park to see other dogs/people?
> 
> Cooper is nearly 5 months and the excitement of seeing others just gets too much for him and off he goes!


I teach 3 things. A strong leave, a strong recall, and 'hazard avoidance' heelwork where they focus completely on you until past the 'hazard'. If all else fails, keep them on a lead.

I vary the rewards for recall. If a dog gets a reward for not coming back the first time, or after it's misbehaved while it was away, where is their motivation to do better, faster, recalls? When in training it's different, but once a dog has a recall, then they have to have rewards for being good, not for being so so.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Nikkisun said:


> Threadbutting here but how do you train to stop them running across the park to see other dogs/people?
> 
> Cooper is nearly 5 months and the excitement of seeing others just gets too much for him and off he goes!


You need to ask yourself why your dog finds other dogs/people more interesting than you?

Many owners inadvertently TRAIN their dogs to prefer the company of other dogs and the attention of other people over themselves as they do not offer anything interesting and everything the dog gets is for free.

The other main error is not actually training a recall from Day1` (assuming that a puppy that follows you around like an acolyte will continue to do so when it becomes more confident) and finally that not enough time and not enough reinforcement is given when a dog DOES recall.

This might help:

*Why cant I get a reliable recall?*

Come is no harder to train than any other behaviour but in real life it has a huge number of criteria that have to be raised one at a time in order to guarantee success.

Often when puppies are brought home to their new owners this is the first time they have ever been separated from their dam and siblings and so they naturally attach themselves to their new family by following them about everywhere. Owners find this quite attractive and wrongly assume that this trait will continue into adolescence/adulthood, whatever the circumstances. A dangerous trap to fall into

At some point in time, usually from around 6  10 months, depending on the individual, Velcro dog will morph into Bog off dog (this is especially true of a breed that has been developed to exhibit a high degree of initiative). This is the time when owners suddenly realize that their dog will not recall when it sees another dog/person etc. Not only is this inconvenient but potentially dangerous as the dog could be at risk of injury from a car/train/another dog etc.

*How and when do I start with a puppy?*

My advice is to prepare for this inevitability from the day you take your puppy home. If you are lucky the breeder will have started this process whilst still in the nest by conditioning the puppies to a whistle blown immediately before putting the food bowl down during weaning. 
Dogs learn by cause and effect ie sound of whistle = food. If you, the new owner, continue this from the moment your puppy arrives you will lay down strong foundations for the future.

By using the whistle in association with meals/food you need to establish the following criteria:

	Come from across the room. 
	Come from out of sight 
	Come no matter who calls
	Come even if you are busy doing something else
	Come even if you are asleep. 
	Come even if you are playing with something/someone else
	Come even if you are eating

Once this goal has been realized in the house, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the garden.

Once this goal has been realized in the garden, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the park/field etc.

To train this, or any other behaviour:

1.	Make it easy for the dog to get it right
2.	Provide sufficient reward

Do not expect a dog to come away from distractions in the park until you have trained it to come to you in the park when no diversions are around. Be realistic and manage your expectations; your sphere of influence/control over your dog may be only 20m to begin with, therefore do not hazard a guess that the dog, at this level of training, will successfully recall from 50m or more away. Distance, like every other criterion, must be built up over time.

Some simple rules to follow when training the recall:

	Whistle/signal/call only once (why train the dog to deliberately ignore your first command?)
	Do not reinforce slow responses for the dog coming eventually after it has cocked its leg, sniffed the tree etc (you get what you train!)
	If you know that the dog will not come back to you in a certain situation, go and get him rather than risk teaching him that he can ignore you. (If you have followed the programme correctly you will never put your dog in a position to fail).
	Practise recalling the dog, putting him on the lead for a few seconds, reinforce with food/toy etc and immediately release the dog. Do this several times during a walk etc so that the dog does not associate a recall with going on the lead and ending the walk or being put on the lead with the cessation of fun.
	Eventually, when the behaviour is very strong, alternate rewards ie verbal praise, physical praise, food, toy and also vary the value of the rewards, sometimes a plain piece of biscuit, sometimes a piece of cooked liver etc so that you become a walking slot machine (and we all know how addictive gambling can be)!

In my experience recall training should be consistent and relentless for the first two years of a dogs life before it can be considered truly dependable. You should look on it as a series of incremental steps, rather than a single simple behaviour, and something that will require lifelong maintenance.

*What about an older or rescue dog?*

Follow the same programme as outlined above however for recalcitrant dogs that have received little or no training, I would recommend dispensing with the food bowl and feeding a dog only during recalls to establish a strong behaviour quickly.

Your training should be over several sessions a day, which means you can avoid the risk of bloat. It is essential that the dog learns that there will be consequences for failure as well as success.

Divide the days food ration up into small bags (between10  30), if the dog recalls first time, it gets food, if it does not, you can make a big show of saying too bad and disposing of that portion of food (either throw it away or put aside for the next day).

Again, raise the criteria slowly as outlined in puppy training.

Hunger is very motivating!

For those of you who believe it unfair/unhealthy to deprive a dog of its full daily ration, not having a reliable recall is potentially life threatening for the dog 

*How do I stop my dog chasing joggers/cyclists/skateboarders/rabbits/deer?*
Chasing something that is moving is a management issue. Do not put your dog in a position where it can make a mistake. Again you need to start training from a pup but if you have already allowed your dog to learn and practise this behaviour you may need to rely on a trailing line until your dog is desensitised to these distractions and knows that listening to you results in a great reinforcement. Chasing is a behaviour much better never learned as it is naturally reinforcing to the dog, which makes it hard for you to offer a better reinforcement. If you want to have a bombproof recall while your dog is running away from you then use the following approach:

Your goal is to train so that your dog is totally used to running away from you at top speed, and then turning on a sixpence to run toward you when you give the recall cue.

You need to set up the training situation so that you have total control over the triggers. For this you will need to gain the co-operation of a helper. If you have a toy crazy dog you can practice this exercise by throwing a toy away from the dog towards someone standing 30 or 40 feet away. At the instant the toy is thrown, recall your dog! If the dog turns toward you, back up several steps quickly, creating even more distance between the you and the toy and then throw another toy in the opposite direction (same value as one thrown)..

If the dog ignores you and continues toward the thrown object, your helper simply picks the ball up and ignores dog. When dog eventually returns (which it will because its getting no reinforcement from anyone or anything), praise only. Pretty soon the dog will start to respond to a recall off a thrown toy. You will need to mix in occasions the toy is thrown and the dog is allowed to get it ie you do NOT recall if you want to make sure it does not lose enthusiasm for retrieving.

For the food obsessed dog, you can get your helper to wave a food bowl with something the dog loves in it and then recall the dog as soon as you let it go to run towards the food; again if the dog ignores you and continues to the food, your helper simply ensures the dog cannot access the food and start again. (It is extremely important that the helper does not use your dogs name to call it for obvious reasons).

Gradually increase the difficulty of the recall by letting the dog get closer and closer to the toy/food. Praise the moment the dog turns away from the toy/food in the 
early stages of training. Don't wait until the dog returns to you; the dog must have instant feedback.

Once the dog is fluent at switching directions in the middle of a chase, try setting up the situation so that it is more like real life. Have someone ride a bike/run/skate past. (It is unrealistic to factor in deer/rabbits however if your training is thorough the dog will eventually be conditioned to return to you whatever the temptation in most contexts).

Until your training gets to this level, don't let the dog off-lead in a situation in which you don't have control over the chase triggers. Don't set the dog up to fail, and don't allow it to rehearse the problem behaviour. Remember, every time a dog is able to practise an undesirable behaviour it will get better at it!

Most people do not play with toys correctly and therefore the dog is not interested in them or, if it gets them, fails to bring it back to the owner.

Play the two ball game, once you have a dog ball crazy. Have two balls the same, throw one to the left, when the dog gets it, call him like crazy waving the next ball; as he comes back throw the other ball to the right and keep going left right so that YOU are the centre of the game and the dog gets conditioned to return to you for the toy. Once this behaviour is established you can then introduce the cues for out and then make control part of the game ie the game is contingent on the dog sitting and then progress to a sequence of behaviours.

HTH


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Look here, Susan Garretts articles are particularly good. If you can watch some of her videos on her site

*Ultimate Recall: 4 Day Course with John Rogerson*

• Training a reliable, automatic, non-negotiable, reality recall
• Building block and foundation training of the recall
• Relationship/influence building in recall training
• The chasing/emergency recall
• Sit and/or down on recall
• Freeze/stop on recall/running wait
• Distance/direction control
• Calling dogs off of distractions
• Out of sight recall (owner hidden)
• Obedience/competition recall (dog is called from a stationary position)
• Free running recall (dog is called while in motion)
• Type "A" recall (dog re-joins his owner in motion)

JOHN RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ADJUST COURSE CONTENT BASED ON THE ABILITIES OF DOGS AND HANDLERS ENROLLED ON THE COURSE.

Dates for Ultimate Recall Course:

At Nottingham, England
26th - 29th October, 2012; 4 days duration 9.30-4.00 pm 
To register contact Beverly Smith at [email protected]

http://www.johnrogerson.com/2012coursesschedule.pdf

*Chase Recall Masterclass *

Date: Thursday 1st November 2012 Venue: Windsor, Berkshire Max handler places: 10
9.30am registration, 10.00am - 4pm Refreshments and a light lunch included

Following on from the fabulous Chase Recall Masterclass with Stella Bagshaw earlier this month, we are pleased to announce a date for the Chase Recall Practical Masterclass.

In this Masterclass we will be exploring:
How to tailor your training depending on your dog's scorpion level
How to build your training based on practical, workable exercises
How to move from one training level to the next in the real world
Perfecting the advanced "leave"
How, when and what signals to use
Line handling skills that make all the difference
Getting scent to work for you
Games to play with your dog on line
Dogs attending do not need to have a chase/recall issue, but it's a perfect opportunity if they do! Dogs do need
to be social with people and other dogs.

Please be assured that even if you don't bring a dog you will learn just as much from Stella's unique and innovative training approaches. Please note, the venue has a large hall and outside areas - we will be training in both, so please bring suitable outdoor wear.

Non handler place @ £130 (deposit £65) 
Handler @ £145 (deposit £65)

http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/Chas...calNov2012.pdf

*Books*

Stop! How to control predatory Chasing in Dogs
by David Ryan

Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts 
By Clarissa Von Reinhardt

Total Recall
By Pippa Mattinson

Teach your Dog to Come When Called
By Erica Peachey

*DVDs*

Really Reliable Recall 
by Leslie Nelson

Training the Recall
By Michael Ellis

Your clever dog: Getting your dog to come when called 
by Sarah Whitehead

Does your dog whizz back to you as soon as you call his name?
Can you call him to you even when there are other dogs or distractions? Teaching your dog to come to you when you call is the cornerstone of training and the gateway to allowing him more freedom in the park.
If your dog has selective deafness, ignores you in the garden or the park, or would rather play with other dogs than come when you call, this specially designed training session is for you.
Ideal for starting out with puppies or rehomed dogs, and also for dogs that ignore you or are slow to come when called, despite previous training. 
Including:
• How to know what's rewarding for your dog and what's not
• Five times when you shouldn't call your dog!
• Using your voice to call versus using a whistle
• What to do if you call and your dog doesn't come to you
The pack contains: A clicker, long line (worth £10), training manual, instructional DVD: 55 mins approx running time including Bonus trick, Bonus Training Session, Intro to Clicker Training, Q & A with Sarah

*Website articles:*

http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/RECALL.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/reliable_recall.pdf

Deposits into the Perfect Recall Account

List of Reinforcers

Distractions For Your Recall

How to Create a Motivating Toy

http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_files/factsheets/Training a whistle recall.pdf

Teaching Come « Ahimsa Dog Blog

How do I stop my dog chasing? - David Ryan CCAB

http://www.pawsitivelydogs.co.uk/recall.pdf

Train a

Teaching Your Dog to "Come When Called" | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

Become More Exciting Than a Squirrel: Teaching a Reliable Come When Called | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS


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## Nikkisun (May 21, 2012)

He recalls perfectly when no distractions and also recalls after he has said 'hello' but goes completely deaf whilst running over to greet someone.

Ideally I'd like to be able to stop him before he starts iyswim but he just loses focus on me.


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

Nikkisun said:


> Threadbutting here but how do you train to stop them running across the park to see other dogs/people?
> 
> Cooper is nearly 5 months and the excitement of seeing others just gets too much for him and off he goes!


The most important thing at the moment is to get a long line so your dog can not run over to others and is secure, then you can start training!

5 months is still very young so he should pick it up very quick.

You need to be exciting and alot more interesting than the person/dog over the other side of the park. If something else is more interesting then why should he stay with you? Especially if he doesnt actually know what he is meant to do.

Personally i would use a whistle, as this is nice and loud and the right pitch and will attract your dogs attention.

Starting in the house i would simply whistle, treat, whistle, treat and repeat over and over. Do this for a little while then leave and do at another point, later in the day or next day etc.

Do it randomly, so if you have the whistle and your dogs doing something else then call him over, just whistle and treat, no words.

Once you have it perfect in the house then move to the garden, on a line so if he does not come to you, you can correct this. Again do the same as you did inside and do it untill he comes immediately.

Next you can move out to the park or wherever you normally let him off lead. Again its the same principal except you need to be alot more exciting, even if you have to take toys etc. Because of all the distractions, get him in front of you and whistle and treat and repeat few times. You can then let him wonder of slightly (on the line) and keep calling him back, but this time shout his name excitedly and jump around if needed! then whistle, you can then add a come if wanted. Treat and praise alot! Keep doing this, if he does not come at any point, reel him in and ignore and take a step back, so whistle treat etc.

You have to be more exciting than everything else, hes your dog so he must do what he is asked. If he does then he gets such nice treats, treats he wouldnt normally get. It may take a while but he should pick it up pretty quick if you are doing it correctly.

Do not let off lead untill you think the re-call is perfect while on the long line, then you can try it. If it doesnt go well then go back to long line and practice more.


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

Nikkisun said:


> He recalls perfectly when no distractions and also recalls after he has said 'hello' but goes completely deaf whilst running over to greet someone.
> 
> Ideally I'd like to be able to stop him before he starts iyswim but he just loses focus on me.


Hes re-call is not perfect unless its with distractions and he should come to you as soon as you say.

Practice makes perfect  you just need to go right back to basics, if hes off lead you cant correct the behaviour.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Nikkisun said:


> He recalls perfectly when no distractions and also recalls after he has said 'hello' but goes completely deaf whilst running over to greet someone.
> 
> Ideally I'd like to be able to stop him before he starts iyswim but he just loses focus on me.


I expect you pay a lot of attention to your (insert relevant loved one) when it is necessary but if (insert name of relevant hot totty) entered the room, how much attention would you pay to them then? 

You need a recall when there ARE distractions as this could save his life in more ways than one.


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## Nikkisun (May 21, 2012)

We do use a whistle - he seems to respond better to that than to calling - I think I'm going to have to get a long line to stop him getting to his 'target' although even when on lead he pulls like anything to try and get to other dogs, we're working on that by using a 'watch' command and he's slowly getting there.


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

Nikkisun said:


> We do use a whistle - he seems to respond better to that than to calling - I think I'm going to have to get a long line to stop him getting to his 'target' although even when on lead he pulls like anything to try and get to other dogs, we're working on that by using a 'watch' command and he's slowly getting there.


You need to start off with no distractions and get him focused, then go somewhere where there are, as soon as you see a dog you get him focused, whether its running, screaming, anything to get him to listen. A good re-call is vital if the dog is off lead, he may one day run up to a not so nice dog and get a nasty welcome!

Hes still young so i wouldnt expect him to have a great re-call atm anyway! But you need to go back to basics then work back up to with distractions really, or he wont get the idea. Also training classes may be a good idea? or are you doing some?


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## Nikkisun (May 21, 2012)

We have done the basic puppy training course where he was quite happy to recall across the room but a lot of the time was spent sat in a row at the side of the room and he just wanted to get to all the other puppies to play! I was hoping that the socialisation aspect of the training class would calm him down slightly around other dogs but he just seemed to get even more hyped up!


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

Nikkisun said:


> We have done the basic puppy training course where he was quite happy to recall across the room but a lot of the time was spent sat in a row at the side of the room and he just wanted to get to all the other puppies to play! I was hoping that the socialisation aspect of the training class would calm him down slightly around other dogs but he just seemed to get even more hyped up!


Its pretty normal puppy behaviour tbh, all pups want to do is play! Let him play with dogs but on your terms, take him over to them on lead and then let off if owner agrees.

But with starting in house and working to outside with re-call it will improve alot and seeing as hes so young you shouldnt have any issues with it.


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

lucylastic said:


> Sorry to be blunt but I really don't think that most dogs understand the concept of physical punishment.


Now.....I'll probably be flamed to high heaven for this, and Im sick as a dog so maybe not making the best decision to voice my view on this, but I don't think this is true, for most species.
I do *NOT* advocate hitting one's dog, or beating them or any of that jazz, its not a method I wish to use, nor would I ever. So Im not supporting that, and don't take this as me supporting any kind of physical abuse of a dog, Im just disputing this particular statement.

To say animals don't understand physical punishment doesn't make sense: animals physically reprimand one another all the time. Dogs physically reprimand one another often. Yes, they use other methods too, but dogs _are_ physical with one another when enough is enough, lots of species are. I can't think of any mammals at least that don't resort to physical reprimand when things get out of hand.
Cats will give each other a swat, rats will pin and power groom a trouble maker, and so on.

What is more of a correct statement is probably that physical reprimand often doesn't cross the species barrier well, so in that respect, HUMAN physical reprimand is something animals can be confused by. 
I actually knew someone who used to bop her rats on the nose hard when they misbehaved.
Now, rats DO use physical reprimand, but they DON'T use nose bopping! That would have been totally alien to them, and therefore, completely pointless 

Once again, in case there was any doubt, I do NOT advocate spanking, hitting or any kind of this behaviour on a dog. But I also don't agree that animals don't communicate physically or that they don't understand the concept of physical reprimand. They do, they do it to each other. They just don't understand the way _humans_ do it, because thats not the way they do it to each other.


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## Nikkisun (May 21, 2012)

Have just bought a 50' line from Ebay (using a £5 off code that another kind forum member posted) so as soon as it arrives will take him out on it, in the meantime I'm going to spend the weekend reinforcing the whistle/treat routine.

I WILL crack this - I don't want to be the owner everyone avoids in the park!


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## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

Shadowrat said:


> Now.....I'll probably be flamed to high heaven for this, and Im sick as a dog so maybe not making the best decision to voice my view on this, but I don't think this is true, for most species.
> I do *NOT* advocate hitting one's dog, or beating them or any of that jazz, its not a method I wish to use, nor would I ever. So Im not supporting that, and don't take this as me supporting any kind of physical abuse of a dog, Im just disputing this particular statement.
> 
> To say animals don't understand physical punishment doesn't make sense: animals physically reprimand one another all the time. Dogs physically reprimand one another often. Yes, they use other methods too, but dogs _are_ physical with one another when enough is enough, lots of species are. I can't think of any mammals at least that don't resort to physical reprimand when things get out of hand.
> ...


Actually I completely agree with you. What I probably should have said is they mostly don't understand it when it's delivered by humans.


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## MirandaA1 (Jan 12, 2012)

Thank you all for this. I knew that spanking/hitting/walloping/whatever was wrong, and haven't done it, but was momentarily uncertain due to friend's reaction.


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