# Where's the pissed off thread gone?



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Well, hopefully that fact it's not sitting up high in search results, means that you guys are having better days now. 


I had a week off last week and things were ok, apart from a few stupid comments from OH re Muttly and getting annoyed when walking with Muttly on his Flexi, because he goes from side to side, depending where the best smells are coning from and OH walks faster than me, so gets a bit awkward...

Anyway, I'm fed up with his child and I'm not good with kids at all. I don't know what to do, been muddling along for 5 years now.....:Bored

Last night I was making dinner and looked out the window to see her grab Muttly's back legs and pull them up until he was nearly off the floor ffs  (apparently she was helping him do a handstand). But ffs, I was so mad, she was sent to her room and I took her bike off her for a couple of days.
I explained that she could really hurt him and to leave him alone etc.

This morning I had to tell her off again for cuddling him and making him growl.
I have also seen her hit him, which she says she is playing tag.

It's just not on, but Muttly is such a sweet dog, that he will just take it in his stride and only growl when he is really unhappy.

I am so worried about the summer holidays, OH will be in the lounge, which is front of the house and won't see what's going on. I work full time, I can't be there. 

Maybe I should just move out.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I have no advice I'm sorry to say, I just wanted to send you a massive *hug*


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Animallover26 said:


> I have no advice I'm sorry to say, I just wanted to send you a massive *hug*


Thanks Al, just a venting thread really. I needed to vent as I can't do this at home.
Howz you and B?


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Oh dear...

I didn't realise how the little one was with Muttly.

I was so lucky with my first dogs, my boys learnt really quickly how to behave round him, and in all fairness he was excellent. It was my nephew who was horrible to him, and didn't matter how many times you told him he still did horrible things. My sister just said..oh he loves dogs...how can pulling tails be nice.

It must be so difficult not to be able to say anything, but all dogs have limits and if Muttly is growling now, if she pushes enough boundaries I hope to god he doesn't hurt her.

I think you need to talk to her and discuss Muttly will come to her for cuddles or play...not the other way round. Can you manage it to do it say out in the garden, in the house with you muttly and her both giving muttly nice strokes together. Make a big thing that he prefers this to cuddles!

I know dogs are lovely part to the family, and my dogs were when the kids were young and still are but really it needs stopping.

You have a right to be annoyed...i certainly would be...big hugs xxxx


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Good grief how old is this brat? Old enough to know better certainly. Can you enroll Muttly in daycare for the summer? I don't think I'd be able to function at work for worry, if my pet was going to be home virtually unsupervised with a kid like that.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

She's 7, but a very slow developer and she is not like a normal kid (her birth mother isn't right in the head). She tries to play with him like she would another kid basically is what she's doing. The handstand thing and trying to play tag.

I often come home from work and OH has said that he has had to tell her even in the hour and half she's been home, to leave him alone. 

I tried telling her to stay away from him, but then the next thing is, Muttly is taking his ball over to her to play fetch  I think he tolerates her, because sometimes they do play really nicely, like they dig in the sandpit together.

But things like the pulling legs are very serious and I'm worried.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

How old is she now? (child I mean). To be fair it doesn't sound like she is doing it with any malice, more like she is bored and wants Muttly to play with her. Does she have friends to play with? 

Only you can make your mind up whether you want to stay in this situation or not. At times you sound thoroughly miserable but at other times you sound more content and your photos of your week off were lovely - especially the one of your OH and Muttly at the table while you went in the cafe. 

Did you think anymore about looking for a job driving so you could take Muttly with you?


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Thanks Al, just a venting thread really. I needed to vent as I can't do this at home.
> Howz you and B?


We're OK thank you.
Bungo is having fun today, there are workmen outside and he enjoys popping out to check on them


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> She's 7, but a very slow developer and she is not like a normal kid (her birth mother isn't right in the head). She tries to play with him like she would another kid basically is what she's doing. The handstand thing and trying to play tag.
> 
> I often come home from work and OH has said that he has had to tell her even in the hour and half she's been home, to leave him alone.
> 
> ...


Sorry we posted at the same so didn't see this. Poor kid she does sound lonely and it must be very hard for her not being with her mother. Does her Dad do stuff with her after school and in the holidays or is she left to amuse herself? How about after school clubs etc?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> How old is she now? (child I mean). To be fair it doesn't sound like she is doing it with any malice, more like she is bored and wants Muttly to play with her. Does she have friends to play with?
> 
> Only you can make your mind up whether you want to stay in this situation or not. At times you sound thoroughly miserable *but at other times you sound more content and your photos of your week off were lovely - especially the one of your OH and Muttly at the table while you went in the cafe. *
> 
> Did you think anymore about looking for a job driving so you could take Muttly with you?


This is why I'm still here, for these times. The only reason.

I have been thinking more about the driving job yes, but not looked yet as I've been really thinking hard on whether I'm staying here or leaving. Which means opposite ends of the country, so no use changing jobs just yet.

I got from one day to the next in totally different states of mind. One day is good, next day is awful. but the common thing is, my happy times are always when child is not there. I take my summer week off that week, because a) it's my birthday and b) she's at school.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sorry we posted at the same so didn't see this. Poor kid she does sound lonely and it must be very hard for her not being with her mother. Does her Dad do stuff with her after school and in the holidays or is she left to amuse herself? How about after school clubs etc?


Nah, she isn't bothered about her mother. She doesn't see her in that way. She does need other kids to play with yup. But there are not any close to us, the friends she makes at school, OH finds it hard to talk to the parents because they don't speak English, the after school clubs have a massive waiting list and they don't do it fairly, so unless one drops out, noonw else will ever get a go, it's a nightmare.
After school she does homework, then amuses herself. OH is depressed so isn't going to be going out doing anything in the foreseeable....


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2016)

Am I understanding correctly that the child has developmental delays? Is she being seen by a professional for this? Because that would be my first port of call, speak to someone experienced/educated in working with kids like this and have them help you develop a plan for how to have more positive interactions with her and Muttly.

@Muttly the following isn't addressed directly to you but at the thread in general and comments like calling the kid a brat.
Think about it. If this were a dog who was having trouble learning something, the advice would be to call on professional help, not assume the kid is a brat and needs to have her bike taken away. 
Punishment with kids - especially those with developmental delays is just as ineffective and fraught with fall-out as it is with dogs. 
This child deserves some compassion and understanding too does she not? 
The parents need support and understanding - they are dealing with a difficult situation and simply doing the only thing they know to do. But there are other ways.

The good news is that Muttly is tolerant and seeks out the child's attention on his own. That's great. 
Honestly, dogs are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for, and with a few tweaks in management and addressing the kid's behavior, this could probably be a great relationship with the two of them. And frankly, watching a kid and dog grow in their relationship is a beautiful thing


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> Nah, she isn't bothered about her mother. She doesn't see her in that way. She does need other kids to play with yup. But there are not any close to us, the friends she makes at school, OH finds it hard to talk to the parents because they don't speak English, the after school clubs have a massive waiting list and they don't do it fairly, so unless one drops out, noonw else will ever get a go, it's a nightmare.
> After school she does homework, then amuses herself. OH is depressed so isn't going to be going out doing anything in the foreseeable....


Oh dear. So she probably views Muttly as her friend but needs a bit to help to understand what is appropriate and what isn't. How about you and OH getting her involved in doing some dog related stuff with Muttly such as agility or obedience, perhaps you could get some agility equipment to set up at home and let her enter him in some fun dog shows etc.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Am I understanding correctly that the child has developmental delays? Is she being seen by a professional for this? Because that would be my first port of call, speak to someone experienced/educated in working with kids like this and have them help you develop a plan for how to have more positive interactions with her and Muttly.
> 
> @Muttly the following isn't addressed directly to you but at the thread in general and comments like calling the kid a brat.
> Think about it. If this were a dog who was having trouble learning something, the advice would be to call on professional help, not assume the kid is a brat and needs to have her bike taken away.
> ...


She does have developmental delays, for example when she was 2, she still could only say 2 words. (she came to us when she was 2 after being neglected by her mother). 
After a while with us she was speaking and tbh although she was on the register for seeing a 'speech therapist' they were very few and far between and very odd when she did go. Anyway we caught her up where she needed to be and she is now one advanced for her age in terms of reading. Her fine motor skills and co-ordination etc are slow. Physical things.

She has some behavioural issues, she will not listen, home or school. She is on some kind of programme at school because of this. But not sure she much worse than any other naughty kid.
Thing is, she is clever in a lot of ways, but she is manipulative, like her mother.

My worry is, that some of this is not helped by me. I have said to OH that I don't want to be responsible for her problems because I don't want to be a mother. We thought we could work this, but I'm not sure we should have done, for her sake.

Muttly is very tolerant, he's brilliant. But he should not have to put up with anything like this.
My other worry is, she's growing up with such a lovely dog and not all dogs are this tolerant......she carries on, she will get bitten or at least snapped at one day.


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

That sounds like a really difficult situation @Muttly have you tried showing the kid how muttly likes to play and that he gets sad if she pokes him or makes him do thing he doesn't like?

Hope you find a way that'll make you all happy


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Oh dear. So she probably views Muttly as her friend but needs a bit to help to understand what is appropriate and what isn't. How about you and OH getting her involved in doing some dog related stuff with Muttly such as agility or obedience, perhaps you could get some agility equipment to set up at home and let her enter him in some fun dog shows etc.


She's very hard to explain things too. It's literally like doing this :Banghead
But I gotta get through to her about Muttly somehow, I agree.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> She does have developmental delays, for example when she was 2, she still could only say 2 words. (she came to us when she was 2 after being neglected by her mother).
> After a while with us she was speaking and tbh although she was on the register for seeing a 'speech therapist' they were very few and far between and very odd when she did go. Anyway we caught her up where she needed to be and she is now one advanced for her age in terms of reading. Her fine motor skills and co-ordination etc are slow. Physical things.
> 
> She has some behavioural issues, she will not listen, home or school. She is on some kind of programme at school because of this. But not sure she much worse than any other naughty kid.
> ...


To be honest this is something that has concerned me reading some of your posts. Having been neglected by her mother it must be very hard for her to know that you don't really have a great deal of love for her either. You say she is clever/manipulative but I would imagine those are fairly "normal" behaviours for a child in her circumstances. Have you thought about some sort of family therapy?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> To be honest this is something that has concerned me reading some of your posts. Having been neglected by her mother it must be very hard for her to know that you don't really have a great deal of love for her either. You say she is clever/manipulative but I would imagine those are fairly "normal" behaviours for a child in her circumstances. Have you thought about some sort of family therapy?


This is why I believe I am part of the problem and shouldn;t have taken it on. So should leave.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2016)

Muttly said:


> She does have developmental delays, for example when she was 2, she still could only say 2 words. (she came to us when she was 2 after being neglected by her mother).
> After a while with us she was speaking and tbh although she was on the register for seeing a 'speech therapist' they were very few and far between and very odd when she did go. Anyway we caught her up where she needed to be and she is now one advanced for her age in terms of reading. Her fine motor skills and co-ordination etc are slow. Physical things.
> 
> She has some behavioural issues, she will not listen, home or school. She is on some kind of programme at school because of this. But not sure she much worse than any other naughty kid.
> ...


I agree with @rottiepointerhouse that some family therapy and even individual therapy is in order.
This sounds like a really sad situation for all involved. 
My heart breaks for this child... Her mom doesn't want her, you don't want her, and her dad is depressed. She may not appear to be affected by any of this, but I guarantee you she is.

Her relationship with Muttly is probably the easiest thing to fix. It's just figuring out how to present information to her in a way she can understand. I know it seems simple to say "don't cuddle the dog" but sometimes those instructions don't get coded right in to a 7 year old head - let alone one who has other things going on. 
You could really benefit from someone who is experienced with this type of issue and who can assess the child and then give you pointers for how to talk to her so that she does understand and can comply. It sounds like she really likes Muttly so interacting with him in a way that he will like her more is going to be easy to motivate her to do.

I think it's worth looking at professional help here


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2016)

Muttly said:


> This is why I believe I am part of the problem and shouldn;t have taken it on. So should leave.


Or you could step up and be an advocate for this kid who appears to have no one who really cares what happens to her....


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Muttly...i know you don't want to be her mother but to all children adults are role models...and living in the same household its really not possible to be anything but a primary carer, role model for her.

You are certainly taking on a parenting role, even though you think that's the last thing you want to do. I can't see anyone in a household such as yours not being able to do so.

I work with special needs, all children have autism, and as we all know its a spectrum and so it varies from child to child. I find my way in to interact in a variety of ways, and I don't really know hoe to explain it but I do. The other day the trauma of putting just a plaster on a child was a bit much for him, but we got there, he likes me men. The plaster was orange so as the plaster I was putting on him I asked him to name the orange Mr men. It saved his tears, and he was fine. Developmental delays, need not be a hinderance, its talking to them age appropriate.

I have just gone through the process of finding the ideal dog for my friend and her family. My friend has mental health issues, and also to children with autism who are poles apart. The youngest being very much living in his own world, academically bright. His understanding of the world around him, not great. Introducing the dog is a slow and steady process. He interacts one day, not the next, but its slow and steady. Lots of reinforcement of good behaviour around the dog, but so far a month on, its going well. Usually, without malice this child could have hurt the dog because he will push, throw things that make him uncomfortable but luckily, with supervision,and reminders its working. We took ages looking into breeds to suit too.

Sorry for my ramble....xxxx


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

ouesi said:


> the following isn't addressed directly to you but at the thread in general and comments like calling the kid a brat.


It was a knee jerk reaction on hearing what was done to Muttly. I would be infuriated if a child behaved that way to a beloved pet, especially after having been taught to treat the animal with respect.

I wasn't aware the child was developmentally delayed. Certainly that requires a different approach, I worked in the field, direct care, for 20 years. However I still would be deeply worried about leaving Muttly alone with her, since the actual parent seems to have no interest in actually parenting. His little legs could snap in an instant. Not to mention his teeth...on her face. It's not safe, for either of them.

(edit) Incidentally I was also a step parent, with a father that didn't give a damn. When they were little I devoted myself to them and they adored me. When they got older and no longer needed child care their father told them they "didn't have to listen to me". They took him at his word.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor little girl I feel really sad and sorry for her. Does she have other family members such as grandparents around, just hope she has someone who gives her the unconditional love every child deserves.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

No advice, but sorry to hear you're having a bad time


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

lorilu said:


> It was a knee jerk reaction on hearing what was done to Muttly. I would be infuriated if a child behaved that way to a beloved pet, especially after having been taught to treat the animal with respect.
> 
> I wasn't aware the child was developmentally delayed. Certainly that requires a different approach, I worked in the field, direct care, for 20 years. However I still would be deeply worried about leaving Muttly alone with her, since the actual parent seems to have no interest in actually parenting. His little legs could snap in an instant. Not to mention his teeth...on her face. It's not safe, for either of them.
> 
> (edit) Incidentally I was also a step parent, with a father that didn't give a damn. When they were little I devoted myself to them and they adored me. When they got older and no longer needed child care their father told them they "didn't have to listen to me". They took him at his word.


Believe me, this was my reaction last night too and some of my words when sending her to her room.

She is not bad enough to need special care, but she does have something going on that makes her a bit slower than others. Noone seems interested though, I don't rate this county much on this type of thing, especially after all the dealing we had with Social Services.

Just to point out to people and @ouesi he mother does want her, but she is not stable enough to give anyone or anything primary care. So SS placed her with her father (my OH) even though it was noted that I don't like or want kids. Because I said I would try and at that time, she was responding to me extremely well.
To anyone who has cats, it was like that. If you ignore a cat, they will come to you and want to get on your lap, if you try and be all over them and fuss them, they bugger off.
This was what it was like, I had no idea what to do, so stayed back and did my own thing and she kept coming to me, I was like "er what do I do now" lol

I was deeply upset and worried last night, as Muttly is tiny, he is between a Chi and a small JR in size. He has muscle up top, but still has spindly little legs, that she could of easily dislocated at the very least.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DoodlesRule said:


> Poor little girl I feel really sad and sorry for her. Does she have other family members such as grandparents around, just hope she has someone who gives her the unconditional love every child deserves.


Her Grandparents are not much help, one is is very bad health but does love her bits when he sees her. Her Nan is far too wrapped up in her other grandkids to bother with this one.
My parents are absolute stars with her and she loves them like true grandparents, they play with her and make cakes etc..they are great.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Every time I think about her hurting him, it makes me so angry. He's such a good dog and does not deserve it 
(not that any animal does), but I mean't the things he puts up with all day while I;m at work, he is alone for a couple of hours, then OH doesn't do anything with him, he doesn't even get his cuddles in the day now he's banished him from the sofa, he just roams around the house and garden waiting for me to come home. When I come home at lunch, he's so happy to see me, hate to leave him again.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> This is why I believe I am part of the problem and shouldn;t have taken it on. So should leave.


Or you could look at it that whilst you don't want to be her mother you can be her constant and her role model and her friend. Please do think about asking for some help for all of your sakes.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> Every time I think about her hurting him, it makes me so angry. He's such a good dog and does not deserve it
> (not that any animal does), but I mean't the things he puts up with all day while I;m at work, he is alone for a couple of hours, then OH doesn't do anything with him, he doesn't even get his cuddles in the day now he's banished him from the sofa, he just roams around the house and garden waiting for me to come home. When I come home at lunch, he's so happy to see me, hate to leave him again.


It must be hard but did she actually hurt him? it didn't sound like she did to me from your posts but I wasn't there. Sorry if I'm over stepping the mark here but are you sure you are not blaming her for the problems between you and your OH? sort of taking your frustration with the situation out on her. You say your OH banished him from the sofa but you went along with that didn't you? If your relationship with your OH is not right then why not try relate of similar? If neither of you want to invest your time and effort into putting your relationship right then perhaps it is time for you and Muttly to move on.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

If social services placed her with her dad and you, they have a responsibility towards her ongoing care with you. I do appreciate you worry about Muttly, but keeping him safe in another room or garden,,or daycare isn't going to solve the other problem, which is that it seems this poor little girl really does lack for love, or at least demonstrated love. 7 is still very young, only half way through primary school. I lost my 8 year old last week in Tescos ( we agreed to meet by the frozen peas after she'd been to the loo with big sister, then they split up to see which way was quickest :Banghead). When we found her she was red faced, on the verge of tears, and said she was going to be sick. This little girl is usually such a tomboy, completely shocked me how reliant on me being in the background she actually still is. Please give your stepdaughter the benefit of being young and insecure rather than manipulative.
It sounds like she's terribly lonely, couldn't she come with you on some of your walks, or learn to brush Muttly gently? Weigh out his food for him etc?

It worries me that your OH is supposedly in charge of a seven year old girl throughout the holidays, yet it sounds like she has to amuse herself, and if he doesn't see to protect Muttly, how will he see to protect her? Get social services involved again, and ask for help: a support worker, a meeting place for kids to do holiday activities, even a break away for a week if you qualify. Ask what is out there. If you get child tax credits you can get subsidised childcare I think.

Hope it works out for you, but please do ask for help, you need it and so does she.


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## Laney_Lemons (Mar 23, 2016)

I find this thread incredibly sad ... why is the child being blamed? Have you done everything in your power to help the child understand?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> It must be hard but did she actually hurt him? it didn't sound like she did to me from your posts but I wasn't there. Sorry if I'm over stepping the mark here but are you sure you are not blaming her for the problems between you and your OH? sort of taking your frustration with the situation out on her. You say your OH banished him from the sofa but you went along with that didn't you? If your relationship with your OH is not right then why not try relate of similar? If neither of you want to invest your time and effort into putting your relationship right then perhaps it is time for you and Muttly to move on.


I dont blame her for our problems no, we used to argue before she came.
I don't know what to do, I don;t want to leave and then realise it was a mistake. But when I stayed with my parents for the weekend with Muttly, I didn;t wanna go home.....

I was myself again and liked myself, I don't like the me back here and then one coming over in this thread


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Elaine2016 said:


> I find this thread incredibly sad ... why is the child being blamed? Have you done everything in your power to help the child understand?


She has been around dogs for 5 years and before that in her old home, she had a cat. We have tried to teach her to be gentle, sometimes she is. But I;m sorry, I won;t stand by and allow this to go unpunished. She is being blamed, because she is not listening, she has been told time and time again about this.
As I keep saying, I am not a mother, I don;t know much about kids and I am trying to protect my dog.

When we last saw my parents, their Golden retriever snapped at her, we don;t know what happened, she was behind us. But we constantly telling her not to pull on their collars or lean on their backs just because they are big, they can still be hurt.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Can you get OH on board with supervising the child and Muttly when you aren't around?

Perhaps Muttly could be behind a baby gate when OH has to concentrate on something else?

It's a shame you haven't really bonded with the child, but given that you were honest with OH in the beginning he doesn't seem to make much effort to help you. 

Not every woman is naturally an "earth mother" - I adore my son, but I'm not that keen on other peoples' kids! 

Is there a dog sitter nearby that Muttly could go to when you aren't around?

I wonder if all his night time/settling issues stem from being pulled around by the child on a regular basis? When you aren't there he possibly feels very anxious and vulnerable?

Luckily, he has a lovely temperament and he hasn't hurt her back, but what would happen if he was pushed too far one day and bit her?

Whatever goes on in the outside world, I known that I find solace in my home. I don't know how I would cope with all the constant anxiety TBH.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lurcherlad said:


> Can you get OH on board with supervising the child and Muttly when you aren't around?
> 
> Perhaps Muttly could be behind a baby gate when OH has to concentrate on something else?
> 
> ...


This brought a tear to my eye, because this is how it should be, I hate going home after work. That's a hard thing to admit and I feel guilty for saying it. But Muttly is the only one who constantly makes me smile now...


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Big hugs for you because you really are in a terrible position. However so is that little girl, I don't even like or "do" kids myself but I find it quite heart breaking to read about her. You say she has developmental problems and also behavioural problems and is on "some sort of program" at school. Does your OH even know what this entails and who is involved with her? does she have a special person at school he could speak to or could he get back in touch with social services and ask them to come back to assess whether there is any further help they can offer? If you are constantly telling her things but she is still doing them then as @ouesi and @lullabydream said perhaps you and OH need help to understand how best to communicate and teach her.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> This brought a tear to my eye, because this is how it should be, I hate going home after work. That's a hard thing to admit and I feel guilty for saying it. But Muttly is the only one who constantly makes me smile now...


Then you have your answer.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Muttly said:


> This brought a tear to my eye, because this is how it should be, I hate going home after work. That's a hard thing to admit and I feel guilty for saying it. But Muttly is the only one who constantly makes me smile now...


I feel sad for you 

Could you take a couple of weeks holiday with Muttly back at your parents or even alone with him somewhere? Time to really think about want you want in the future and long enough perhaps to miss OH and his daughter?

With a bit of distance and time you might get a better understanding of what you really want?

Have you considered seeing someone from Relate on your own to explore your thoughts and feelings?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I would do this as LL suggested, but OH's Dad's partner is dying and we fear that once she does, he won't be far behind.

Yet again another situation where I can't leave him alone to deal with this. Like when his kid came, I couldn't just leave him to deal with it alone. So guess ill just be miserable to keep everyone else sane, as usual.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Muttly said:


> I dont blame her for our problems no, we used to argue before she came.
> I don't know what to do, I don;t want to leave and then realise it was a mistake. But when I stayed with my parents for the weekend with Muttly, I didn;t wanna go home.....
> 
> *I was myself again and liked myself, I don't like the me back here and then one coming over in this thread *



That is a heartbreaking sentence and very revealing. You need to be with people who make you feel good about yourself. Could you see a counsellor on your own to talk through these feelings and help you decide how to go forward? I feel really sad for you and send you a big hug !


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

At the end of the day you need to do what you feel is right. I was in a relationship for 6 years until I finally had the guts to end it and I am so much happier for it and wished I'd done it years before. I'm not saying do this BUT you said it yourself that you felt more yourself when you went home with Muttly.


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## Laney_Lemons (Mar 23, 2016)

There will never be a right time .... You can't make yourself miserable by staying in a relationship you don't want to be in, you will end up resenting the child and making the situation potentially worse, your OH seems to be getting a bit of a by ball as well, 

The child also might be crying out for attention and the only why she gets it is by being naughty and especially towards the dog... If the dog is in danger or the child in that matter the only other can the dog stay with your mum and dad or another family member when your not there? Means the child is safe from the dog potentially snapping at her..


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

The problem Susie, is this....



Muttly said:


> I would do this as LL suggested, but OH's Dad's partner is dying and we fear that once she does, he won't be far behind.
> 
> Yet again another situation where I can't leave him alone to deal with this. Like when his kid came, I couldn't just leave him to deal with it alone. So guess ill just be miserable to keep everyone else sane, as usual.





SusieRainbow said:


> That is a heartbreaking sentence and very revealing. You need to be with people who make you feel good about yourself. Could you see a counsellor on your own to talk through these feelings and help you decide how to go forward? I feel really sad for you and send you a big hug !


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Elaine2016 said:


> There will never be a right time .... You can't make yourself miserable by staying in a relationship you don't want to be in, you will end up resenting the child and making the situation potentially worse, your OH seems to be getting a bit of a by ball as well,
> 
> The child also might be crying out for attention and the only why she gets it is by being naughty and especially towards the dog... If the dog is in danger or the child in that matter the only other can the dog stay with your mum and dad or another family member when your not there? Means the child is safe from the dog potentially snapping at her..


Another problem, we have no friends or family here. My family are 4-5 hours drive away.

I am really thinking about taking some more holiday off work and going away on my own, I like that idea.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> The problem Susie, is this....


You can't stay in a relationship that makes you and very likely the other half and his child unhappy because his father's partner is dying and you "think" he won't be far behind. When my MIL died everyone thought my FIL who was 83, blind and totally dependent on her (she buttered his bread and stirred the sugar in his tea) would not last long without her. He went on for a good 10 years and delighted in running rings around all of us. At some point you have to put yourself first and I agree a break away from the situation where you do some serious thinking and perhaps chat with your parents (I get the impression you are close to them) about things would be a good idea, then you need to make your mind up and stick to it. If you decide to stay I think you need to do so on a slightly different basis, perhaps you agree to become more involved in child care/management and let her be more involved with Muttly and in return your OH needs to butt out of your management of Muttly and stop telling you to keep him off the sofa etc. Don't look for excuses. Do it.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. You must be feeling a bit trapped at the moment. 
I can understand how difficult it must be to care for a child that is not yours especially if you don't like children much. 
My mum was amazed I had children as I was never keen. Don't like other people's kids at all - there have been times when I haven't liked mine either. It can't be easy to care for for someone else's child especially as you haven't bonded with her. 

I guess you need to think very carefully what you want now.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

To be honest.. your OH sounds like my ex... lazy, selfish, arrogant.. everything I dislike in a person. I moved away from where I lived to bloody crappy Suffolk to be with him and now I live in bloody Peterborough ( still due to him ) and if I hadn't of been with him in the first place I wouldn't be round here.. but things happen and my plan is still move to Yorkshire or the Lake District in the next few years 

Remember you only get one life.. so live it and be happy! I'm sorry your OH's dads partner is dying but that is not an excuse to still stay with your OH as soon it'll be excuse after excuse


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> To be honest.. your OH sounds like my ex... lazy, selfish, arrogant.. everything I dislike in a person. I moved away from where I lived to bloody crappy Suffolk to be with him and now I live in bloody Peterborough ( still due to him ) and if I hadn't of been with him in the first place I wouldn't be round here.. but things happen and my plan is still move to Yorkshire or the Lake District in the next few years
> 
> Remember you only get one life.. so live it and be happy! I'm sorry your OH's dads partner is dying but that is not an excuse to still stay with your OH as soon it'll be excuse after excuse


Sound like me! I moved to bloody, crappy Norfolk because of him, which if I'm honest the only I like about it is the walking! Hence all the pics I put on here.

I have been looking at houses/flats back in Bristol for me and Muttly and I don;t know how I would afford going back over that side of the country.
I could stay here and have a 3 bed cottage in the country for what I would pay for poxy 1 bed flat in Bristol. meh. But I do want to be back near my family.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Sounds rotten and yes, I can imagine that I too would use the words when really upset and probably feeling very isolated. I am sorry hear you are in this position and hope the thread doesn’t get too hung up on one word over offering practical advice.


Whilst it might be the commendable thing to do – to take on a caring role - I would assume that this would sound way more appealing if you had some support from your partner. I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and say that the crux of this lies with his relationship with you. Do you feel that you are able to talk to him and agree ground rules so when you say no, that he supports you? That I think applies to lots of life doesn't it? Whilst her relationship with Muttly is probably easier to fix, it would be an awful lot easier to keep it solved if you both present a united front.


I’ve never been in the position of having to care for a child long term that wasn’t mine with the commitment that seems to be required of you but I can imagine that must bring up all sorts of mixed feelings. I have babysat and often care for my god daughters but have always involved them with the training and care, not just of Molly but my grandmother’s dog too who was much more wilful and a lot bigger than Molls. Loved kids but was a bit of a four legged launch pad! This was very important with my eldest god daughter who is highly dyspraxic and had no fear at all. Learning a consistent party line and being a united front was really important for her. That no means no always.


Massive hugs, wish I had something more useful to add.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling like this  Ive told you this before - but ive been there x 3 step children, OH didnt really parent/works a lot and their mother still in the picture telling them they did not have to listen to me! It does EVENTUALLY get better, they grow up and they move out .... 2 of mine are making me a grandmother, twin boys in September and a girl in November - at last I am getting some reward for years of hell ! 

But you are young, your step child is young and life is way too short to be so damn miserable. 

Forget the child for a minute ok. Are you happy with OH ? It doesn't sound like you are, and in return that will make the child situation a whole lot harder. I survived being a step parent (just!) but the relationship I have with my OH has always been good, even when he has suffered with depression. If it wasn't, then I would have walked away for my own sanity.

Forget about the situation with OH's dad's partner. This is not your problem. Honestly, it isn't.

Ask work for some urgent time off, pack a case and take Muttley to your parents for a couple of weeks, ideally turning your phone off for the first week! You (or anyone) cannot see or think clearly when you are still caught up in the same drama/situation that is making you unhappy. Take some time away from it all, enjoy being with your family, start to look for a job back home (giving you options) and speak to your parents about possibly moving back home - i.e. can you stay there for a few months, or can they help you financially get a place of your own.

Obviously you dont have to go ahead with these plans, but the options are there for you meaning you are not stuck or feeling trapped. You do not HAVE to stay with OH if you have other options, but after a couple of weeks you may decide that you do want to make the relationship work and will go back with a clear head.

You simply cannot carry on the way you are. Realistically you have another 10 years + before child moves out. Are you prepared to put your life on hold and be miserable for that long ?

(none of this meant to hurt or upset you, just from someone who knows how it feels to sit outside her own house and not want to go in)


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Problems with going away are:

When I went to taway for Dogfest and to get away, I have been made to feel guilty about it ever since.
We only have one car, which I will have to take to get to Bristol, so leaves him having to walk or getting a taxi to kids school
If anything happens with his Dad, he wont have a car to get there. This is the major one of course.
He is depressed and thinks I'm selfish for buggering off and enjoying myself. But when I try and help, then he doesn;t let me.

If we hadn't just lost half of our income, then I would go and buy a cheap car and take that!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Problems with going away are:
> 
> When I went to taway for Dogfest and to get away, I have been made to feel guilty about it ever since.
> We only have one car, which I will have to take to get to Bristol, so leaves him having to walk or getting a taxi to kids school
> ...


Hire a car, take the train/coach or ask your parents/family/friend to come and get you. Yes I know its hours away but if they know how unhappy you are then im sure someone will offer some help!

Who's car is it ? If its yours then just take it !

He cannot make you feel guilty if you have your phone switched off ..... and if you decide not to return to Norfolk then its irrelevant anyway.

Surely if he knows that you are possibly leaving him then he is going to try sorting things out so you come home, not spend the time making you feel guilty for leaving in the first place ? (and if he does then he seriously doesn't deserve you!)


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Are dogs allowed on coaches? the train takes 8 hours, as it goes to London first


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Westie Mum said:


> I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling like this  Ive told you this before - but ive been there x 3 step children, OH didnt really parent/works a lot and their mother still in the picture telling them they did not have to listen to me! It does EVENTUALLY get better, they grow up and they move out .... 2 of mine are making me a grandmother, twin boys in September and a girl in November - at last I am getting some reward for years of hell !
> 
> But you are young, your step child is young and life is way too short to be so damn miserable.
> 
> ...





Westie Mum said:


> Hire a car, take the train/coach or ask your parents/family/friend to come and get you. Yes I know its hours away but if they know how unhappy you are then im sure someone will offer some help!
> 
> Who's car is it ? If its yours then just take it !
> 
> ...


I agree very much with all this.

@Muttly I know nothing about relationships having never had one, but it is very clear how unhappy you are, personally I would suggest getting out of this relationship, going back to your parents if you can and look at getting a new home, start afresh and be happy again. But that's just me thinking of you, not considering the rest of it...........
I'll be thinking of you, I hope you work something out, you deserve better.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I would hire a car too. He can't make you feel guilty unless you let him. You are making excuses again. If you need a break for your own sanity and to get things straight in your own mind then take one, go. I think it would be a bit mean to leave him without a car to get his daughter to school and back but you are resourceful so find a way around it.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I would hire a car too. He can't make you feel guilty unless you let him. You are making excuses again. If you need a break for your own sanity and to get things straight in your own mind then take one, go. I think it would be a bit mean to leave him without a car to get his daughter to school and back but you are resourceful so find a way around it.


Yeah, if I;m going away for more than one school day, then I won't take the car. OH is not very healthy and so walking to and from her school for days on end, won't help him feel any better at the mo at least.
I delayed going away before because of not wanting to leave him without a car on a week day.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

What I will say is that I will feel like a huge burden going back to parents for a little while at 36 years old, dog in tow.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Muttly said:


> What I will say is that I will feel like a huge burden going back to parents for a little while at 36 years old, dog in tow.


It wouldn't be forever though


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

True. I spose ill get a taste of living alone, as they are usually away in their caravan these days!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Presumably you knew your OH had a child when you started the relationship but it sounds as though you were never expecting to have to be actively involved and resent the fact that you have basically been forced into being a step mother despite making it clear it wasn't a role you wanted to do. From what you say the little girl has been with you since she was about 2 years old, if you can't bond with them at that age it will only get harder. I could be wrong but it does come across that you don't even like her much let alone love her - whether you wanted it or not, for 5 years of this childs life you have had a big input on shaping her life ahead and the adult she will become. Children are very perceptive and even if you try to hide it will know if you don't really like them - it could also explain her constantly fussing around your dog, for your attention maybe. 

I think you should do some serious soul searching and work out what it the best for both yourself and the little girl. My son was 26 when he moved out, can you see yourself going through a possible further 20 years, coping with the teenage years inbetween too


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Just caught up with this thread...

Boy has it shifted and great comments by all.

The only thing I will say is, that dogs are naturally awake mornings and evenings and the rest of the day more than likely to be found snoozing, unless some interaction takes their fancy ie partaking in a walk. I really wouldn't try to worry about no interaction during the day whilst you are at work, Muttly has plenty of stimulation. The more he is given, the more he would crave and he seems very well rounded.

An excited dog when you come home at lunchtime, is normal. Even if I am doing an activity with my dogs, I can pretty much be ignored when someone walks through the door whether they have been gone 5 minutes or all day! Some dogs are like this, he's half chi and my chi's you only have to be gone 2 seconds to be greeted like you have been away weeks!
I think you are trying to read in to things, that are simply not there. If Muttly only does his affection excitment for you, then so be it. Dogs live in the moment.

If you do go back to your parents..you wont be the first 30 something or 40 something etc...times are tough with finances etc.

xxxxx


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

I sympathise on the child front, because I'm not exactly mother earth either, but she does sound like she is seeking attention and, from what you have written, it doesn't sound like she's getting much attention from the one person who should be giving it: her father. He sounds very selfish and you sound very unhappy. My thoughts are that it is time to put yourself first and leave him. Your relationship with him and his daughter does not sound healthy and it is certainly not a good situation for your dog. You may be 36, but surely if your parents understand how miserable you are, they would be willing to help you? It's not forever, I'm sure you will be able to find your own place eventually. Ultimately, staying in what sounds like a very psychologically damaging environment for you all is going to do more harm than good.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm sure if your parents are anything like me and Mr S (and they often sound as if they are), they will be happy for you to stay with them for a time until you get sorted. My son, at the age of 32 turned up on our doorstep complete with a wife (met her for the first time when they got married in Greede) and two cats. They stayed with us for several months until they were able to find jobs and somewhere affordable to live. As you say they are more often or not away in their caravan so will probably be glad of someone keeping an eye on the house whilst they are away.


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## AnimalzRock (Jul 2, 2014)

Muttly said:


> I would do this as LL suggested, but OH's Dad's partner is dying and we fear that once she does, he won't be far behind.
> 
> Yet again another situation where I can't leave him alone to deal with this. Like when his kid came, I couldn't just leave him to deal with it alone. So guess ill just be miserable to keep everyone else sane, as usual.


First of all, a HUGE HUG, because you do sound so unhappy.

Also because I was nearly in your situation myself a few years ago, when OH's teenage daughter, after years of NOT wanting to live with him, suddenly decided she did want to live with him. I started making plans to move out, as I never got on with her and would have had a breakdown if I had had to share living space with her for any length of time (I used to find it stressful enough when she stopped the occasional day/night). Along with lots of other issues, she too was unpredictable with the dogs and didn't seem to understand what was acceptable behaviour around them.

One tip I got off someone which did seem to work well on occasions with her was, rather than telling her what NOT to do, to give her something else to actually DO. E.g. if she was doing something to the dog(s) which I didn't want her doing, I would distract her with a suggestion of something else which would take her away from the dogs (a bit like redirecting behaviour in dogs really). This worked a lot better than saying "Don't do that" which would inevitably be met with the daggers look and a confrontational "Why?"

You sound like you are looking after TWO children, not one.  You are effectively wasting your life, trying to keep your OH happy, yet he still does not seem to acknowledge this, let alone appreciate it. Who is trying to make YOU happy?

As others have said, his parents and what may/may not happen with them is not YOUR problem. The little girl I can feel a little bit of compassion for - she is a child who has been dealt a rather rotten hand in life from the start. However, this is no reason for you to sacrifice your life, happiness and mental health if your heart is not in it (which is not meant as a criticism at all, as I can fully appreciate where you are coming from). Your husband needs help to step up and be a proper father to her when/if you leave.

I do hope you find the strength to work out what is best for you and, if it is to walk away from this situation, do it.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Are dogs allowed on coaches? the train takes 8 hours, as it goes to London first


Hmmm apparently not allowed on coaches but they are allowed on buses and trains.

OR

Hire a car from enterprise. £65 for one way small car hire. Collect in Norfolk, drop off in Bristol.

Apparently several dog friendly car hire places https://www.pbspettravel.co.uk/blog/pet-friendly-car-rental-uk/



Muttly said:


> What I will say is that I will feel like a huge burden going back to parents for a little while at 36 years old, dog in tow.


I don't think your parents will feel like that. Surely you will be most welcome if they know how unhappy you are.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Muttly said:


> What I will say is that I will feel like a huge burden going back to parents for a little while at 36 years old, dog in tow.


As a parent, I would rather have my 36 year old and their dog move back with me for a while, than for them to continue to be miserable.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Muttly said:


> What I will say is that I will feel like a huge burden going back to parents for a little while at 36 years old, dog in tow.


You keep worrying about everyone else. Where do YOU come in to this? If your parents accept you and Muttly moving in, take them at their word, they say it is okay, then it is okay. No "huge burden" needs to be considered. The OH's family issues are something he will just have to suck up and deal with on his own. People die, the living grieve and get on with life. That he might be depressed is not your responsibility. That he's too lazy to take care of his kid, also not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to YOU and to MUTTLY. You have a right to happiness just like he does. You aren't his doctor or his parent.

Someone said something about they know what it's like to not want to walk in the door. I do, too. When my step kids got old enough to no longer need child care my life became a living hell. Even though I knew my cats were waiting for me to come home, I could not walk in that door until I knew they were all asleep. I used to sit in my car in the Walmart parking lot for hours.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2016)

@Muttly I'm sorry, I haven't read further than these posts, and probably won't because it's just too upsetting to me.

Can I start with this quote below?


Muttly said:


> But I;m sorry, I won;t stand by and allow this to go unpunished. She is being blamed, because she is not listening, she has been told time and time again about this.


This is not a criticism, but I want to reframe this as if you were talking about a dog, and see what it sounds like:
"The dog keeps soiling in the house, and we have shown her over and over agin to potty outside, given her treats for pottying outside, she knows to go outside, and sometimes she does, but, I'm sorry, when she has an accident I won't stand by and let it go unpunished. She is simply not listening."

Learning is not usually a one event thing. Sometimes it takes repetition after repetition for a child to learn things. It doesn't happen overnight any more than a dog will learn to toilet outside without accidents. Kids need time and patience to learn skills like using an inside voice, asking before interrupting, and being gentle. Much of it is developmental as well, they have to reach the brain development to have the impulse control to be able to remain gentle even when excited or distracted. That's why we supervise and anticipate situations where they might need guidance and make sure we are there to guide.

I understand that you did not ask to or want to be in this position where you have to supervise this child, but the reality is that you are. If you can take the time to punish her, you can take the time to teach her and guide her - and that will be much more effective anyway. Which in the long run will make your life easier. (Should you choose to stay, I'm not getting in to that discussion, not because I don't care, but because I feel strongly that it's your decision and no one else's.)



Muttly said:


> Every time I think about her hurting him, it makes me so angry. He's such a good dog and does not deserve it


Again I agree with @rottiepointerhouse that odds are she's not hurting him. Honestly, even if she is, guess what? Dogs who live with kids get hurt. Hell, dogs who live with adults get hurt. 
Our dogs have been thwacked with foam swords, have been tripped over, stepped on, fallen over, accidentally punched (that was me, I was swinging my hand back to throw a toy and hit Breez in the head very hard), kicked hard in the chin when they tailgate me going up the stairs... The list is endless. Thus is life for a family dog. That's not even counting the times I've quicked them cutting nails, had to soak an objecting dog in skunk smell remover, cleaned out wounds etc., etc.

Dogs are resilient and can handle occasional blips. I completely understand feeling angry about Muttly being hurt, but chances are he's probably not that hurt, especially given that he seeks her out on his own. Thinking about it that way might help you feel less angry?



Muttly said:


> Just to point out to people and @ouesi he mother does want her, but she is not stable enough to give anyone or anything primary care.


Either way this child is motherless which has got to be tough. I know she is not your responsibility, but I just ache for her. You have options. You can leave, and go to your parents. You can stay and seek out help via counseling or other avenues. You can drive a car, use a phone, get help... 
This child is 100% dependent on the adults in charge of her, she has no choice to leave, or go to another parent, or call social services and ask for her caretakers to get more training... It seems like no one seems to care about this kid. Who is in this kid's corner advocating for her? Anyone?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Poor little girl.

I'm no expert, but, it seems to me she has tried and failed to connect to her Mother, her Dad is withdrawn from her and you likened her to a cat which will try to gain affection from someone who is withdrawing, (you).

She seems to recognise Muttly as the only being who will connect with her. The scenarios you describe where you think she has hurt him all seem to be her trying to play with him and, instead of explaining to her that she must be more gentle, you send her to her room and confiscate her bicycle.

Poor child must feel so alone.

In my experience, children respond well to someone sitting down with them and explaining, not someone punishing them.


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> She's very hard to explain things too. It's literally like doing this :Banghead
> But I gotta get through to her about Muttly somehow, I agree.


If she has developmental delays, she may benefit from learning through social stories, or a more visual/tactile way of learning. If you could bring yourself to sit with her and Muttly, and kindly and gently explain 'Muttly isn't like your friends at school, so you have to play with him differently. He really loves it when you throw a ball for him, but he prefers you not to lift his legs off the ground, and he doesn't like to play tag. He also really likes it when you stroke him, or tickle behind his ears' that sort of thing. Or if you go the social story route, you can make it more simple, and remind her of it before she plays with Muttly. A social story is a short, personalised story, with pictures, that explains particular situations to a child. They were made I think for children with autism, but I think they are very useful and helpful for many children and not necessarily just those with difficulties. Also, show her Muttly's teeth, tell her if he gets cross with her he may use them and that will hurt, but if she plays nicely he is happy and wags his tail.

This is an example of a social story - this one is quite complex, you might want to make it even more simple with fewer words and could use pictures of Muttly. 
http://keepyourchildsafe.org/aspwpadmin/stattrack/downloads/dog-safety-mini-book.PDF

It is also easier for kids to handle criticism if you also say something positive. The more positive attention this child gets, the more likely her behaviour will improve.

If you do stay, I think it would be really good for this child if you could form some kind of positive relationship with her. It isn't her fault that she's in the situation she is in. It needn't be a mother-daughter type relationship; maybe you could just try to be her friend, or a kind aunt figure. It sounds like you and OH need a whole new approach with her. A kids club during the holidays would be good to keep her from being unsupervised with Muttly, and provide her with some stimulation if her father is unable. I know that you said you don't like children, and maybe I just can't understand that because I enjoy their company and work with them, but perhaps you can find some things you have in common and spend some time with her and you just might start to like her? Maybe she'd like to paint your nails, or draw pictures with you, or play games? Or sometimes for children with behavioural difficulties, just being with her and describing what she is doing can be helpful, as this way she cannot be right or wrong. Sorry I might have gone far too specific and off topic.

If OH has depression it is not helpful to label him as lazy, as this will just make him feel worse. Instead perhaps encourage him to do things with his daughter, or all three of you? I saw some great pictures of the three of you and Muttly at the beach on dog chat a while ago.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time  This cannot be easy for you at all and is a really difficult situation.
I think if you do decide to leave, please let some authority know that she is alone with her father who is depressed, as she then may be able to get some more assistance or they may reassess to see if he is really the best person to care for her.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Learning is not usually a one event thing. Sometimes it takes repetition after repetition for a child to learn things. It doesn't happen overnight any more than a dog will learn to toilet outside without accidents. Kids need time and patience to learn skills like using an inside voice, asking before interrupting, and being gentle. Much of it is developmental as well, they have to reach the brain development to have the impulse control to be able to remain gentle even when excited or distracted. That's why we supervise and anticipate situations where they might need guidance and make sure we are there to guide.


Oh, glory - how true is this!

I've been to visit friends tonight, they have two children (I'm Godparent to both of them), one age 5 and one rising 3.

Tonight, I have had to remind the 5 year old a dozen times over that he needs to ask before climbing on me, another dozen times that he needs to ask before flinging himself/jumping at to me, several dozen times when I HAVE allowed him climb on me that he needs to be careful what he is doing with his limbs or he can easily manage to dig a joint into a sensitive area, plus quite a few times rather more pointedly asking him to get a part of him out of sensitive areas. Always adding that this is because he is getting such a big boy now he can easily hurt people if he's not careful, and also reminding him that saying 'I love you' and giving you a kiss (his standard response when challenged!) doesn't change the fact you have/could have hurt someone. And one time telling him that as he wasn't listening to me and was refusing to be careful, I didn't want to play any more as it's not fun to be hurt - then getting up and walking away. All in the space of about an hour and a half!

The previous visit was pretty much the same, and I expect the same next time around, too. Yes, it's very, very wearing, and constantly repeating yourself isn't fun. And I am exceedingly glad I don't have to do it all the time! But in between all the correctional reminders, we also have a lot of fun 

One thing which I should note is that the reminders try to avoid 'not' phrases (do not, must not, should not) as childrens brains are not really wired to process those and can easily miss the out the 'not' part (even adults subconciously do this, which is why you should use "I will..." rather than "I will not..." phrases when when setting goals for yourself  ) So rather than 'don't jump on me, you could have hurt me' I say 'Did you remember to ask before you jumped on me? Because I wasn't ready you could have hurt me, and that would have made me sad.' Trust me, it's taken a lot of effort from me to maintain this gentle reinforcement approach as it's not what I'm used to, but it does seem to work a lot better than more 'traditional' negative reinforcement methods. Two other children who often visit my friend have been raised with the strong negative reinforcement methodology, and although they are a few years older their behaviour is often far more childish and disruptive than either of my God-kids.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Yes but let's get some perspective. The OP never wanted to be a parent and still doesn't. Why should it be her job to raise this child? Not everyone has the temperament to deal with children appropriately, that's just the way it is. And it takes courage to admit that. Yes, it is very sad the parents want nothing to do with this little girl. Perhaps she would be better off in foster care if that is the case.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

lorilu said:


> Yes but let's get some perspective. The OP never wanted to be a parent and still doesn't. Why should it be her job to raise this child? Not everyone has the temperament to deal with children appropriately, that's just the way it is. And it takes courage to admit that. Yes, it is very sad the parents want nothing to do with this little girl. Perhaps she would be better off in foster care if that is the case.
> 
> My step kids' parents didn't want much to do with them either. I spent 6 years raising them, teaching them, having fun with them. Then they hit adolescence and it appeared my services were no longer needed or desired, for the kids it was easier for them to do what their father said, because he didn't make them do anything they didn't want to do.


I agree. Although I feel sorry for the child, I don't think anyone should expect the OP to become the parent she never wanted to be. The child is her partner's responsibility. He's the one who should be reading advice on how to parent his child. The OP is clearly miserable.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2016)

I never said OP should be a parent, I said I ache for this child who appears to have not one single person in her corner advocating for her. 
Realistically, the OP is an adult and can make her own decisions. The child cannot.
Realistically, the OP chose to be in this situation (and can choose to opt out of it). The child did not choose this for herself, and has no choice in where she ends up living or who ends up in charge of her.



Jesthar said:


> One thing which I should note is that the reminders try to avoid 'not' phrases (do not, must not, should not) as childrens brains are not really wired to process those and can easily miss the out the 'not' part (even adults subconciously do this, which is why you should use "I will..." rather than "I will not..." phrases when when setting goals for yourself  ) So rather than 'don't jump on me, you could have hurt me' I say 'Did you remember to ask before you jumped on me? Because I wasn't ready you could have hurt me, and that would have made me sad.' Trust me, it's taken a lot of effort from me to maintain this gentle reinforcement approach as it's not what I'm used to, but it does seem to work a lot better than more 'traditional' negative reinforcement methods. Two other children who often visit my friend have been raised with the strong negative reinforcement methodology, and although they are a few years older their behaviour is often far more childish and disruptive than either of my God-kids.


Yes, yes!
Just as with dogs, telling the child what to do instead of a slew of don'ts is so much more effective. And yes, kids very much learn what they live. Those treated with patience and kindness learn to be patient and kind. 

OH and I spent a lot of time explaining to our kids how the dogs (and cats, and horses) "talk" with their bodies. Simple things like "see how he just got off the sofa, away from you? He's saying you're too bouncy right now, he went to find a quiet place to sleep." 
Most kids want to interact with animals in a way that animal enjoys, if you give them the tools to know what they like, they will default to that more than not.

One fun game for kids is to have them stop whatever they're doing with the dog and together watch and see what the dog does. For example, kid is snuggling the dog, you ask the kid to stop and just watch. Maybe the dog gets up and leaves. Maybe the dog yawns in uncertainty. Maybe the dog pushes back in to the kid and asks for more. With each scenario you 'translate' for the kid what the dog said (I didn't like that, I'm not sure, I want more). 
My kids loved this (and still do it) and love it most when the dog clearly enjoys the interaction.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Muttly said:


> She's 7, but a very slow developer and she is not like a normal kid (her birth mother isn't right in the head). She tries to play with him like she would another kid basically is what she's doing. The handstand thing and trying to play tag.
> 
> I often come home from work and OH has said that he has had to tell her even in the hour and half she's been home, to leave him alone.
> 
> ...


Do you treat her like she's not a 'normal' kid?

I find it very odd that you almost want to stop this child from having a relationship with Muttly. From reading this I get the impression that anytime she goes near him you tell her not too and on the occasions she does get too she gets so excited that she gets to play with Muttly that she acts like a normal, over excited, heavy handed 7 year old.

Why don't you get her involved in caring for Muttly as from reading this thread she obviously is very fond of him. Could she not give him his breakfast and dinner if she's supervised by you? Could she not come out on a walk with you and Muttly? Could you not let her groom him if she's supervised by you?

You have been a constant in her life for 5 years from what I can gather from reading this thread and whether you like it or not you are something to her, not her Mother, maybe not anything in the future but you are a very important female figure in her life right now. It really doesn't take a ''Mother Earth'' to get down to a 7 year olds level and confiscating her bike out of anger isn't going to show her anything.

You are still angry at a 7 year old, who you have helped raise for 5 years because she tried to put Muttly into the handstand position? Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds?.

You are bitter and unhappy with your OH and you are taking it out on her and that is incredibly sad and damaging to a 7 year old.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DoodlesRule said:


> Presumably you knew your OH had a child when you started the relationship but it sounds as though you were never expecting to have to be actively involved and resent the fact that you have basically been forced into being a step mother despite making it clear it wasn't a role you wanted to do. From what you say the little girl has been with you since she was about 2 years old, if you can't bond with them at that age it will only get harder. I could be wrong but it does come across that you don't even like her much let alone love her - whether you wanted it or not, for 5 years of this childs life you have had a big input on shaping her life ahead and the adult she will become. Children are very perceptive and even if you try to hide it will know if you don't really like them - it could also explain her constantly fussing around your dog, for your attention maybe.
> 
> I think you should do some serious soul searching and work out what it the best for both yourself and the little girl. My son was 26 when he moved out, can you see yourself going through a possible further 20 years, coping with the teenage years inbetween too


You are right yes.
No, I am dreading her getting older as the "My contact Mum let's me" and "I'll go and stay with Contact Mum then" crap has already started. This will get worse even if I had the best relationship with her, because that's what kids say when they don't get their own way and have a parent elsewhere.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Siskin said:


> I'm sure if your parents are anything like me and Mr S (and they often sound as if they are), they will be happy for you to stay with them for a time until you get sorted. My son, at the age of 32 turned up on our doorstep complete with a wife (met her for the first time when they got married in Greede) and two cats. They stayed with us for several months until they were able to find jobs and somewhere affordable to live. As you say they are more often or not away in their caravan so will probably be glad of someone keeping an eye on the house whilst they are away.


Well at least they wouldn't have to pay for Tortoise boarding anymore lol
Yes, my parents are amazing and they have said this is always my home, whatever happens, whatever age. I know I can turn up on their doorstep to be welcomed home. this is kinda another thing that make me sad, I have the best parents in the world (to me) and had a wonderful childhood and I know I just can't give her that, no matter how hard I have tried over the years. It feels like and often is, me the one who expected to to play with her and do everything for her because I am the mother figure. Well this is the 21st Century and I am the one who goes to work all day while OH does the school pick up, so shouldn;t he be doing more things with her? Taking her out after school, or paying with her??
I dived straight in at 2 years old, I changed her nappies, I bathed her, fed her, played, read to her, cuddled her, got up at 5am EVERY morning since she arrived and went out to work for 11 hours, then came home and cooked dinner and bathed her. I don;t resent any of it, because she was in effect a rescue child and she needed us. Remembering here, I still really didn't like children here.
I've jsut had enough now she is at the age where she throws it all back in my face and OH just doesn't seem thankful for it.

I am sighed at and eye rolled at because I spend my life exhausted, yet have energy to take Muttly for a walk every night. Even though he needs this and so do I, I HAVE to keep active because of my joint disorder.
Sometimes I am too tired to walk him, but I do it! Once I get out, then the energy just comes, must be the fresh air and freedom and that fact that smiley little face and seeing him run about loving it, never fails to make me smile and feel good.
This dog is my therapy, I don't think I would still be living here if I didn't have Muttly to pick me up in the really hard times.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Poor little girl.
> 
> I'm no expert, but, it seems to me she has tried and failed to connect to her Mother, her did is withdrawn from her and you likened her to a cat which will try to gain affection from someone who is withdrawing, (you).
> 
> ...


Sweetie, I have done all this for many years I am really at a loss on how to deal with her next. So I started sending her to her room (which seriously 2 mins later, I hear her singing along to her DVD  ). 
I took her bike because she also refuses to listen to use her brakes and look ahead and nearly ran over Muttly's paw the other day while he was asleep. Our garden is too small to ride a bike, especially when still learning and we take her over the park to practice, but I keep saying to OH "FFS take her out after school on her bike!!!" but he doesn't.
I feel I have to try and damage control for when I am not home. I'm going insane here seriously.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Jesthar said:


> Oh, glory - how true is this!
> 
> I've been to visit friends tonight, they have two children (I'm Godparent to both of them), one age 5 and one rising 3.
> 
> ...


Wow Jesthar, I actually thought I was clueless with children, but I have done EVERYTHING in your post. (maybe that's why OH says I am a great parent when I let myself).
I do use this approach with her, now she is 7 and still jumps on people, last time was my parents. I told her "You are a big girl now, you can;t jump on people without asking, because you hurt them" and "If you want to sit on laps, you must ask first"
Her default response is also "Love you", this winds me up and it seems manipulative, but maybe it isn't. But I only know adults and if an adult did this, then that's what you would call them.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

ouesi said:


> One fun game for kids is to have them stop whatever they're doing with the dog and together watch and see what the dog does. For example, kid is snuggling the dog, you ask the kid to stop and just watch. Maybe the dog gets up and leaves. Maybe the dog yawns in uncertainty. Maybe the dog pushes back in to the kid and asks for more. With each scenario you 'translate' for the kid what the dog said (I didn't like that, I'm not sure, I want more).
> My kids loved this (and still do it) and love it most when the dog clearly enjoys the interaction.


Thank you, this is a really helpful one to try


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Royoyo said:


> Do you treat her like she's not a 'normal' kid?
> 
> I find it very odd that you almost want to stop this child from having a relationship with Muttly. From reading this I get the impression that anytime she goes near him you tell her not too and on the occasions she does get too she gets so excited that she gets to play with Muttly that she acts like a normal, over excited, heavy handed 7 year old.
> 
> ...


She does a lot with him and they do play nicely...sometimes, but just lately it's getting out of hand. 
I take her for walks with Muttly and we stop in the playground so she can play with some other kids, while OH sits at home. 
I let her brush him while I supervise 
I bought a sandpit so they can play in it together, which they do (I had to go on and on at OH for a year before he even agreed to it!!). 
They have a 'mutual ball' that they both understand is both of theirs to play with, then she has balls that he knows not to touch. She throws his balls for him too, but Muttly doesn't play fetch for long before he sits and mouths it. 
I see them sitting in the garden and she is reading her book to him, he just lies there watching her, like he's listening. But sometimes if he doesn't want too, she tries to make him by pulling him about, which again is why they do need supervision.

She doesn't feed him no, because feeding time is a bit awkward with him.

She does call me Mum and thinks I am her mother (not her birth mother but 7 year olds don't think too deep about how they managed to have 2 mums).
Why do think I am still here? Because when I think of leaving I wonder what effect it will have on her and OH and it makes me stay here, miserable.

There maybe some truth in you last sentence though I will admit it, and people can slate me as much as they want but why do think I am trying to remove myself from this life? I feel I am ruining her life and standing in the way of OH's chances of finding a partner that really did want a family.

Your question "Do you treat her like she's not a 'normal' kid?" I don't think so, I treat her, how I would treat a kid. I've never raised one or even had anything to do with one before her. I have many cousins and a sister who don't have kids too. So there are not many about!


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Muttly said:


> You are right yes.
> No, I am dreading her getting older as the "My contact Mum let's me" and "I'll go and stay with Contact Mum then" crap has already started. This will get worse even if I had the best relationship with her, because that's what kids say when they don't get their own way and have a parent elsewhere.


Umm, yes and no. I get " I hate you", "you're not my real mum" ( Um, yes, I was there when they cut you out of me!), "I'm leaving home", and of course with 2 of them " you prefer her".

Kids say things, they hurt if you let them, or they can be water off a ducks back. I use constant reassurance, combined with humour to cope: " I can't live here anymore, I'm leaving". " Then I will hunt you down until I find you".

I know you can't say you love her, but you can say that right now you are looking after her and want what's best for her. Try to be a freind if not a mum, and don't get hurt be childish comebacks.

Will post later, need to sign off for eldest's leavers service - those 11 years went quick!


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

I haven't got emotional over a discussion thread in a while! 

I'm so sorry you're not happy Muttly.  

From reading, just my opinion, I think the issue lies with your OH. 
It sounds like a case of 'you don't love my daughter so I'm not going to like your dog but I still expect you to do stuff with my daughter' . 
Sounds like he needs a dose of 'you don't know what you have until it's gone' . Really sad for you & his daughter  . 

Sometimes life gives us these moments where we think 'why am I doing this' .. Life is way too short to not be happy.. Things that have happened here recently have really brought that home to me & gave me a little epiphany (if you like) .. I know I'd hate to reach a certain age & look back with regrets of what could of been / wasted time ... Obviously you're thinking of others before yourself which is really lovely, but would he do the same for you & muttly? If you became poorly, for example & God forbid, & were unable to care for muttly and unable to do all the things you do now.. Would he step up to look after all 3 of you without a 2nd thought? Would you feel safe with him looking after muttly? Or would he try find a way out / find it makes him miserable? Obviously they're rhetorical questions  

I always think, what is meant to be - will be & everything happens for a reason. But sometimes you've got to make something happen to show you want change before the next chapter can begin. Just depends how badly you want change & how badly you want to be happy. Like you say, are you standing in the way of your OH finding somebody that would enjoy being a family with their own kid/s & him and his daughter? Maybe you going and after the initial heartache has eased off, he will find happiness with someone else? All questions you'll never know the answer to until it actually happens. But at the moment it sounds like nothing good is going to come of your current situation? 

Life has just given me some information, I could of ignored that information & carried on as normal.. After a lot of thinking, I've acted on that information even though it could hurt a lot of people in the long run.. Or it might not.. I pushed back to see what will happen.. Time will tell  but after acting on it, I was the happiest I'd been in a while yesterday & it felt good to know I'd done that for me. 
Obviously things are easier said than done but happiness is worth more than anything else in the world & it's so precious, don't deny yourself of that. 

Big hugs xx


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

JenSteWillow said:


> I haven't got emotional over a discussion thread in a while!
> 
> I'm so sorry you're not happy Muttly.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jen, I have been thinking lately that I am going down the same road as my Nan, I am so much like her. She spent her years with someone like my OH, always thinks he's right and he wouldn't let her have a dog, even knowing she had always had GRs and GSD and adored them!
He always complained about our family dogs (wee on the garden ) when we went to visit and it got to the point where it was quite awkward to take the dogs, because they were clearly not welcome and it caused arguements.
She died never finding her mr right and just 'putting up' with him and his crap. She was never truly happy and I can't be the same.

I would rather be alone, than be unhappy for the rest of my life.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Thanks Jen, I have been thinking lately that I am going down the same road as my Nan, I am so much like her. She spent her years with someone like my OH, always thinks he's right and he wouldn't let her have a dog, even knowing she had always had GRs and GSD and adored them!
> He always complained about our family dogs (wee on the garden ) when we went to visit and it got to the point where it was quite awkward to take the dogs, because they were clearly not welcome and it caused arguements.
> She died never finding her mr right and just 'putting up' with him and his crap. She was never truly happy and I can't be the same.
> 
> *I would rather be alone, than be unhappy for the rest of my life*.


Theres your answer


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Thanks Jen, I have been thinking lately that I am going down the same road as my Nan, I am so much like her. She spent her years with someone like my OH, always thinks he's right and he wouldn't let her have a dog, even knowing she had always had GRs and GSD and adored them!
> He always complained about our family dogs (wee on the garden ) when we went to visit and it got to the point where it was quite awkward to take the dogs, because they were clearly not welcome and it caused arguements.
> She died never finding her mr right and just 'putting up' with him and his crap. She was never truly happy and I can't be the same.
> 
> I would rather be alone, than be unhappy for the rest of my life.


Alone doesn't mean unhappy either  
But it sounds like you've decided now


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I hope I'm reading what you've said and am interpreting it correctly? 

If you are going to do what I think you are going to do, I am so happy you've chosen that path 













(Leaving, yes?)


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

lorilu said:


> Good grief how old is this brat? Old enough to know better certainly. Can you enroll Muttly in daycare for the summer? I don't think I'd be able to function at work for worry, if my pet was going to be home virtually unsupervised with a kid like that.


Crikey that's abit harsh the child only knows what she has been taught- or not taught as it may be....


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Respect to you Muttly for persevering for so long with a situation you did not want, at least you seem to have given the child some stability. It does sound as though you are being used to do all the parenting role and to be honest I don't understand your OH putting you or his daughter through this - for me my son always has and always will come first and if I had a partner who made it clear they did not like/want children then I would have insisted parting was best for every one. 

As I said before things will get worse, teenage years are pretty trying when you actually want to be a parent! Best of luck with whatever you decide - you do need to think of yourself as well and not just everyone else


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

JenSteWillow said:


> Alone doesn't mean unhappy either
> But it sounds like you've decided now


Well, not totally. Because when I go home at lunch and OH is nice and I see him struggling so hard trying to get a business to work, I feel terrible and think what an earth will happen if I go. He has said so many times, I am what keeps him going, but it doesn't feel like it. On the next breath, he can say some really nasty things.

I know alone won't be unhappy, I will go back to Bristol where I have my family and places I know. Get into an Agility club and meet some people through that I expect (like-minded friends I mean, god so not interested in another relationship for many years). I am quite independent anyway, always have been (which causes problems in a family like this in it's own right! I like some time on my own to do things I enjoy, OH doesn't).

I'm struggling and think I'm gonna be trapped forever.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Milliepoochie said:


> Crikey that's abit harsh the child only knows what she has been taught- or not taught as it may be....


This has been cleared up already. But she does act like a brat sometimes, as do most kids.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

This thread makes such sad reading.

At 7 years old this young child has missed out on so much already and it sounds an incredibly frustrating, emotional and tiring rolllarcoaster for you all. 

I think there two issues - Your relationship with your OH and also his daughter who has bought a whole new level of stress to all of your lives. 

I personally firstly you need to consider if you want to be on this relationship. Forget about the child involved but do you want to be with your OH? 

If you do then you need to accept that his daughter is part of the package. And that whilst you don't have to be a 'mum' you will be a role model to her as the years go on. 

Can you arrange some family therapy? 

Get the right agencies on board - Talk to your OH about his mental health as this needs to be tackled so he has the strength to support you and his daughter which it sounds like he isn't at all at the moment. 

You can't be expected to be super woman and cope with this on your own. 

But at the same time you can't bumble along how you are as its not good for your / your OH or the innocent child caught in the middles mental or physical health on the long run. 

I really hope your able to work out what needs to be done - it sounds so so painful of a situation for all in involved.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Muttly said:


> Well, not totally. Because when I go home at lunch and OH is nice and I see him struggling so hard trying to get a business to work, I feel terrible and think what an earth will happen if I go. He has said so many times, I am what keeps him going, but it doesn't feel like it. On the next breath, he can say some really nasty things.
> 
> I know alone won't be unhappy, I will go back to Bristol where I have my family and places I know. Get into an Agility club and meet some people through that I expect. I am quite independent anyway, always have been (which causes problems in a family like this in it's own right! I like some time on my own to do things I enjoy, OH doesn't).
> 
> I'm struggling and think I'm gonna be trapped forever.


What ever happens to you in the future (my thought are to go or it's going to be more and more difficult as time goes on), I wish you the very best of luck and that one day you meet the right man for you and Goldie.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2016)

@Muttly do you like your OH? I know you love him, but do you like him?
Do you like his child?
Or it is just a sense of responsibility you feel towards them?

Family therapy has been mentioned several times now. Is that an option?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Milliepoochie said:


> This thread makes such sad reading.
> 
> At 7 years old this young child has missed out on so much already and it sounds an incredibly frustrating, emotional and tiring rolllarcoaster for you all.
> 
> ...


It is, I am glad that people on here can see through it and see how hard it is for all of us, not just the child. 
My OH won't get help, because he says "The stress just needs to stop" well yeah, but how???
It isn't fair on the child, she deserves a better mother figure than me.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Muttly said:


> It is, I am glad that people on here can see through it and see how hard it is for all of us, not just the child.
> My OH won't get help, because he says "The stress just needs to stop" well yeah, but how???
> It isn't fair on the child, she deserves a better mother figure than me.


Bless you.

I hope you don't mind me saying this but have you ever wanted children?

You seem worried about being a mother figure.

Look at this little girls really mother - Is that a mother figure? It doesn't sound like it as such.

What even is a mother figure?

You are not her mother and will never replace that chance her real mother has.

It sounds like the pressure of being this mother figure is something your really not happy with.

You do not need to be a 'mother' (whatever that is because as you know some are pretty crap!) you just need to be a supportive constant - be yourself and be caring which you obviously are.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

**sorry just to add I don't expect you to answer those questions publicly lol but just questions for personal thought**

You sound such a caring person and you shouldn't be worrying or doubting yourself for not being enough for this little girl.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

ouesi said:


> @Muttly do you like your OH? I know you love him, but do you like him?
> Do you like his child?
> Or it is just a sense of responsibility you feel towards them?
> 
> Family therapy has been mentioned several times now. Is that an option?


Sometimes no.  He is one of those people who always says what they think no matter who they hurt and excuse by hiding behind the age old "I'm just an honest person" after previous lies from an ex, I thought someone who always said what they were thinking and told the truth would be nice.....

To be really honest, I am not willing to go through therapy for a future I don't want. I guess what I'm trying to decide is if I leave and hurt everyone, or stay and live an unhappy family life. 
Are the happy times we have, which are few and far between now, worth staying for? I don't know. I should of left when Social Services called that night. I have told OH this too.
He says he's scared of loosing me, but doesn't seem to do much except blame me for not leaving enough 'us time'

This is going to be the hardest break up ever, I'm not sure I can take it.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2016)

Muttly said:


> It isn't fair on the child, she deserves a better mother figure than me.


She deserves a father who steps up and acts like a father instead of pawning her off. 



Muttly said:


> This is going to be the hardest break up ever, I'm not sure I can take it.


Can you take staying?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Milliepoochie said:


> Bless you.
> 
> I hope you don't mind me saying this but have you ever wanted children?
> 
> ...


I can't say too much as this went through court, but her mother neglected her daily care and put her in danger. (2 year old found wandering on a main road at 2am).
As much as I don't want children, she would never be at risk of any of that in my care. But I am failing her emotionally.

No, I never in all my life wanted children and that's never changed. OH knew this, I knew he had a kid, but he wanted to leave his ex and when he did he was visiting child. That was an arrangement I was fine with, because I got to do my own thing, when he saw his child.

It's to hard and it's getting harder and my mental health can't cope with it.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Oh @Muttly you sound so miserable 

You do, however, sound as if you've made your mind up. Breakups are hard, no matter which side you're coming from but I like to remember this gem my Nanna used to say -

'Being with the wrong person can be lonelier and more heartbreaking than leaving and being on your own'.

I can't offer much about the child, I've never been a mother nor dated anyone with children but it does sound like her Dad needs to step up and start behaving like her Dad.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

ouesi said:


> She deserves a father who steps up and acts like a father instead of pawning her off.
> 
> Can you take staying?


No. I am missing out on my own life and all the things I want to do. The time is ticking by and I am missing everything.


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Well, not totally. Because when I go home at lunch and OH is nice and I see him struggling so hard trying to get a business to work, I feel terrible and think what an earth will happen if I go. He has said so many times, I am what keeps him going, but it doesn't feel like it. On the next breath, he can say some really nasty things.
> 
> I know alone won't be unhappy, I will go back to Bristol where I have my family and places I know. Get into an Agility club and meet some people through that I expect (like-minded friends I mean, god so not interested in another relationship for many years). I am quite independent anyway, always have been (which causes problems in a family like this in it's own right! I like some time on my own to do things I enjoy, OH doesn't).
> 
> I'm struggling and think I'm gonna be trapped forever.


You keep him going? But keeping going isn't changing anything is it? If you allow him to keep going as things are, where does that leave you both? Him depending on you to keep going isn't healthy. Sometimes something needs to happen to snap someone out of the routine they're so used to.. People don't know their own physical & emotional strength until they have to push themselves. At the minute, he's not having to do that & doesn't need to push himself.

Somethings clearly bothering him if one minute he's ok & the next he's not? We all take things out on the ones nearest to us, but if that's a daily situation .. That's not normal.

Him being 'nasty' to you is not the sign of a healthy relationship & depending on his behaviour and what he's actually saying / doing can come under emotional abuse. 
http://liveboldandbloom.com/11/relationships/signs-of-emotional-abuse 
7&8 Spring to mind when you had to ask for a sand pit in the garden?

Please, look after yourself xx


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Sometimes no.  He is one of those people who always says what they think no matter who they hurt and excuse by hiding behind the age old "I'm just an honest person" after previous lies from an ex, I thought someone who always said what they were thinking and told the truth would be nice.....
> 
> To be really honest, I am not willing to go through therapy for a future I don't want. I guess what I'm trying to decide is if I leave and hurt everyone, or stay and live an unhappy family life.
> Are the happy times we have, which are few and far between now, worth staying for? I don't know. I should of left when Social Services called that night. I have told OH this too.
> ...


Big hugs to you Muttly. It takes guts and bravery to even consider a massive change and look at a situation like this and think 'I'm not happy'


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

JenSteWillow said:


> You keep him going? But keeping going isn't changing anything is it? If you allow him to keep going as things are, where does that leave you both? Him depending on you to keep going isn't healthy. Sometimes something needs to happen to snap someone out of the routine they're so used to.. People don't know their own physical & emotional strength until they have to push themselves. At the minute, he's not having to do that & doesn't need to push himself.
> 
> Somethings clearly bothering him if one minute he's ok & the next he's not? We all take things out on the ones nearest to us, but if that's a daily situation .. That's not normal.
> 
> ...


These 2 are true:
*10. They try to make you feel as though they are always right, and you are wrong.*

11. They give you disapproving or contemptuous looks or body language.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Muttly said:


> These 2 are true:
> *10. They try to make you feel as though they are always right, and you are wrong.*
> 
> 11. They give you disapproving or contemptuous looks or body language.


I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for nearly three years and you don't realise until after you've taken a step back. No matter how strong a person you are it slowly eats away at your sense of self and your confidence. You question yourself and everything around you.

My ex didn't like the cats. It was my fault that the cats wanted to go near him. He didn't like the dogs and one night made me cry because Lucky had the farts?! Told me I was never owning dogs or cats again. Told me I can't ride because it's dangerous.

It's an exhausting way to live.

In that relationship, I was the one with depression and he was just a knob.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Well, hopefully that fact it's not sitting up high in search results, means that you guys are having better days now.
> 
> I had a week off last week and things were ok, apart from a few stupid comments from OH re Muttly and getting annoyed when walking with Muttly on his Flexi, because he goes from side to side, depending where the best smells are coning from and OH walks faster than me, so gets a bit awkward...
> 
> ...


You really really really have to teach kids about dogs I'm afraid, if they were not brought up with them they literally have absolutely no idea what is and isnt acceptable, nor do they understand what a growl means, or that if a dog walks away they may well want some space........ I wouldnt allow them time alone anymore, even with you watching from the house.

I really hope your home situation improves, its pants when home life sucks


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Your OH sounds EXACTLY like my ex.. the whole 'I kept him going' 

Well I broke up with him.. he was an emotional wreck and for months after I kept getting messages from him begging me to take him back.. and now ? Well I believe he has a new girlfriend and seems far happier than when he was with me.. so the whole 'I kept him going' was not true and I doubt it's true with your OH either.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Pappychi said:


> I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for nearly three years and you don't realise until after you've taken a step back. No matter how strong a person you are it slowly eats away at your sense of self and your confidence. You question yourself and everything around you.
> 
> My ex didn't like the cats. It was my fault that the cats wanted to go near him. He didn't like the dogs and one night made me cry because Lucky had the farts?! Told me I was never owning dogs or cats again. Told me I can't ride because it's dangerous.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry Pappychi 

It is also a lot to do with our differing views on animals too. This morning Muttly was having a growl in our bedroom about something outside and when we told him "quiet" he would still grumble quietly to himself. I was frantically getting dressed (as I had to get up for work anyway) and OH leaned over the bed and shouted "Shut up or you will sleep back downstairs again" Muttly coward under my legs and I got up and went downstairs.

Things like this are a weekly occurance, often more and I can't stand it.

This was a one-off this morning, Muttly had been good as gold sleeping in our room.

He says after Muttly he doesn't want anymore animals. I say every time, not happening, I will always have a dog. But since that's a long way off, we leave it there.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> Your OH sounds EXACTLY like my ex.. the whole 'I kept him going'
> 
> Well I broke up with him.. he was an emotional wreck and for months after I kept getting messages from him begging me to take him back.. and now ? Well I believe he has a new girlfriend and seems far happier than when he was with me.. so the whole 'I kept him going' was not true and I doubt it's true with your OH either.


That's good to hear. I do in a way want him to find someone who will want this home life and make him happy. But it isn't me, no matter how much we love each other.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> To be really honest, I am not willing to go through therapy for a future I don't want. I guess what I'm trying to decide is if I leave and hurt everyone, or stay and live an unhappy family life.


If that is how you feel then I don't think you have any choice but to leave. You can't stay and try to be part of a family if you are not prepared to try family therapy because its a future you don't want. That really would be letting yourself and your OH and the child down. Perhaps you leaving will be the push your OH needs to get help for his depression and to become more involved in his own daughter's life.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Muttly said:


> That's good to hear. I do in a way want him to find someone who will want this home life and make him happy. But it isn't me, no matter how much we love each other.


I'm a tad mean though and wished he was still miserable as he did some terrible things in our relationship and I don't somewhat feel he deserved to find love again.. but hey-ho.. I'm sure he told his new GF that I'm some cow who left him etc, yes I did but I doubt he's explained because he was a cheat numerous times..


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> That's good to hear. I do in a way want him to find someone who will want this home life and make him happy. But it isn't me, no matter how much we love each other.


My ex fell apart when i finally put some big girl pants on and left, in fact he hospitalised himself twice :Jawdrop He was married about 18 months later......... and good for him I say, she wants to put up with his poop, thats entirely up to her, just so long as i dont have to anymore. As it turns out 4 years later i own my own home and am getting married in ohhhhhhh 15 days - so there is life after the misery, I promise.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Just want to say to all you guys, you are a really great bunch of people and I really appreciate you all taking the time to comment and help. I needed opinions from people who a) don't really know us all, so cannot give biased views like parents might and b) have animals and know how important Muttly is to me, rather than people who say "he's just a dog"

Thank you so much x


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Muttly said:


> I'm sorry Pappychi
> 
> It is also a lot to do with our differing views on animals too. This morning Muttly was having a growl in our bedroom about something outside and when we told him "quiet" he would still grumble quietly to himself. I was frantically getting dressed (as I had to get up for work anyway) and OH leaned over the bed and shouted "Shut up or you will sleep back downstairs again" Muttly coward under my legs and I got up and went downstairs.
> 
> ...


No need to be sorry 

I'm happier and he's a strange human being who texts me asking if I cheated on him three years ago on a hen party .

You see the attitude towards animals would be the deal breaker for me. I live for my pets and I'd want a partner who would be happy in a multi-pet household.

You have one life. Live it the way you want to. We spend far too long in the ground, under a headstone or in an urn to be miserable for our brief time here.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> My ex fell apart when i finally put some big girl pants on and left, in fact he hospitalised himself twice :Jawdrop He was married about 18 months later......... and good for him I say, she wants to put up with his poop, thats entirely up to her, just so long as i dont have to anymore. As it turns out 4 years later i own my own home and am getting married in ohhhhhhh 15 days - so there is life after the misery, I promise.


Really?? Wow and Congratulations!!!!!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Really?? Wow and Congratulations!!!!!


yeah its something i could never have done with my ex, as i was just used as a cash cow whilst he threw all his money at the off licence....... My own fault for allowing it for so long really...... go to Primark and buy some Massive big girl pants, and get yourself sorted


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2016)

Muttly said:


> It is also a lot to do with our differing views on animals too. This morning Muttly was having a growl in our bedroom about something outside and when we told him "quiet" he would still grumble quietly to himself. I was frantically getting dressed (as I had to get up for work anyway) and OH leaned over the bed and shouted "Shut up or you will sleep back downstairs again" Muttly coward under my legs and I got up and went downstairs.
> 
> Things like this are a weekly occurance, often more and I can't stand it.


Do you have examples of healthy relationships to look at?
Can you picture what something like being annoyed by the dog would look like in a healthy relationship?

OH and I don't always agree on everything, and as normal human beings we get tired, grumpy, unreasonable... But even when one of us is angry, it still feels safe. Anger is okay, it's a normal human emotion. Getting angry at a dog who woke you up or stepped on your foot and hurt you is totally normal. Feeling unsafe around someone who is angry is not normal. Does that make sense?


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Do you have examples of healthy relationships to look at?
> Can you picture what something like being annoyed by the dog would look like in a healthy relationship?
> 
> OH and I don't always agree on everything, and as normal human beings we get tired, grumpy, unreasonable... But even when one of us is angry, it still feels safe. Anger is okay, it's a normal human emotion. Getting angry at a dog who woke you up or stepped on your foot and hurt you is totally normal. Feeling unsafe around someone who is angry is not normal. Does that make sense?


Excellent post!! So very true. I would also add from previous experience that a normal relationship does not leave either party feeling they have to bite their tongue/ alter their behaviour massively because of the fear that they other half will leave them if they dont "tow the line"......... thats not healthy at all


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Do you have examples of healthy relationships to look at?
> Can you picture what something like being annoyed by the dog would look like in a healthy relationship?
> 
> OH and I don't always agree on everything, and as normal human beings we get tired, grumpy, unreasonable... But even when one of us is angry, it still feels safe. Anger is okay, it's a normal human emotion. Getting angry at a dog who woke you up or stepped on your foot and hurt you is totally normal. Feeling unsafe around someone who is angry is not normal. Does that make sense?


This ^^^^

I've been married 32 years next week and no way is it always plain sailing particularly given we have been working together for 23 years too. We argue at times, we have differences of opinion all the time - usually about politics but often about the dogs too but we give each other space and come back and talk things through and both make compromises. You do have to work at things but you also have to want the relationship to work whereas I really don't get the impression you do want it to work and the obstacles to it working have got too great for you. If that is the case then you need to move on and let your OH move on too.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Muttly said:


> I'm sorry Pappychi
> 
> It is also a lot to do with our differing views on animals too. This morning Muttly was having a growl in our bedroom about something outside and when we told him "quiet" he would still grumble quietly to himself. I was frantically getting dressed (as I had to get up for work anyway) and OH leaned over the bed and shouted "Shut up or you will sleep back downstairs again" *Muttly cowered under my legs* and I got up and went downstairs.
> 
> ...


Generally speaking, I find that a person who is abusive towards animals is abusive full stop. Animals are often better than we are at picking up that kind of stuff, too.

More than weekly 'one off ocurrences' doesn't sound 'one off' to me, either...


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I guess bottom line is that despite difficulties and arguments you feel that your partner has got your back.

Making you feel the way you do and dangling your dog over a precipice (figuratively speaking) every time he has the hump, it doesn't seem like he has.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Do you have examples of healthy relationships to look at?
> Can you picture what something like being annoyed by the dog would look like in a healthy relationship?
> 
> OH and I don't always agree on everything, and as normal human beings we get tired, grumpy, unreasonable... But even when one of us is angry, it still feels safe. Anger is okay, it's a normal human emotion. Getting angry at a dog who woke you up or stepped on your foot and hurt you is totally normal. Feeling unsafe around someone who is angry is not normal. Does that make sense?


I do yes, my parents have animals and an equal love for them, including 2 dogs. They have been married 42 years and they argue now and again like anyone. I've seen them argue, it's never like me and OH. You can still see how much they really both care even during the arguement.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Jesthar said:


> Generally speaking, I find that a person who is abusive towards animals is abusive full stop. Animals are often better than we are at picking up that kind of stuff, too.
> 
> More than weekly 'one off ocurrences' doesn't sound 'one off' to me, either...


Sorry, I mean't Muttly growling at something outside while we are asleep was a one off. The only other time he has done that was months ago at some noisy cats.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Muttly said:


> I do yes, my parents have animals and an equal love for them, including 2 dogs. They have been married 42 years and they argue now and again like anyone. I've seen them argue, it's never like me and OH. *You can still see how much they really both care even during the arguemen*t.


And here we have the crux of the matter - does your OH actually care for _you_, or only care that you are around and doing everything he wants you to do?


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Oh @Muttly I do feel for you being in such a situation. I've no advice to offer just adding my support, it does sound like you've a lot closer to making a decision now & from what you've send I don't blame you for wanting out. You have got to live your own life & it sounds like you're being held back somewhat at the moment & have been for sometime. Don't ever let yourself be emotionally blackmailed & do what's right for you x


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Jesthar said:


> And here we have the crux of the matter - does your OH actually care for _you_, or only care that you are around and doing everything he wants you to do?


I think so, he seems to worry when I cycle to work and when I walk Muttly in the dark.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Muttly said:


> I think so, he seems to worry when I cycle to work and when I walk Muttly in the dark.


And does he say he would prefer it if you didn't cycle at all/took another form of transport to work/didn't work, or that you didn't walk Muttly/have Muttly? In other words, what is his actual motivation for saying such things - worry about you, or wanting control/his own way?


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2016)

Meh, talk is cheap. People say all sorts of things. Question is, what does their behavior say?
If someone says “I love you” and behaves more often than not in unloving ways, you have your answer.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

What do you parents think of how things are with your OH and his daughter, do they know?
Do they like your OH and daughter?

Are you sure your mum and dad aren't me and Mr S, they do seem awfully like us right down to golden retrievers and have been married 42 years (43 this month)
We have occasional spats, but it's not over dogs or money or him trying to say what I can and can't do, usually its over something silly really. Generally we get on really well and enjoy each others company, we think alike and generally have the same opinions. I couldn't imagine being with anyone else. If I was widowed tomorrow I would prefer to be on my own rather then find another chap, probably cos I'm too set in my ways


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I'm sure he does love me and worry about my welfare.
I don't know why he does the things he does though, other than trying to make me into the wife/mother he wanted.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Muttly said:


> I'm sure he does love me and worry about my welfare.
> I don't know why he does the things he does though, *other than trying to make me into the wife/mother he wanted*.


That in itself speaks volumes. I keep getting this old song running through my mind:






We fell in love on the first night that we met
Together we've been happy, I have very few regrets
The ordinary problems have not been hard to face
But lately little changes have been slowly taking place
You're always finding something is wrong in what I do
But you can't rearrange my life because it pleases you

You've got to love me for what I am
For simply being me
Don't love me for what you intend
Or hope that I will be

And if you're only using me
To feed your fantasy
You're really not in love
So let me go, I must be free

If what you want isn't natural for me
I won't pretend to keep you what I am I have to be
The picture of perfection is only on your mind
For all your expectations love can never be designed
We either take each other for everything we are
Or leave the life we've made behind and make another start

You've got to love me for what I am
For simply being me
Don't love me for what you intend
Or hope that I will be

And if you're only using me
To feed your fantasy
You're really not in love
So let me go, I must be free...


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Siskin said:


> What do you parents think of how things are with your OH and his daughter, do they know?
> Do they like your OH and daughter?
> 
> Are you sure your mum and dad aren't me and Mr S, they do seem awfully like us right down to golden retrievers and have been married 42 years (43 this month)
> We have occasional spats, but it's not over dogs or money or him trying to say what I can and can't do, usually its over something silly really. Generally we get on really well and enjoy each others company, we think alike and generally have the same opinions. I couldn't imagine being with anyone else. If I was widowed tomorrow I would prefer to be on my own rather then find another chap, probably cos I'm too set in my ways


I know, you are ever so similar!  I could never imagine them arguing over money or stuff like that. They do most things together, but Dad loves his motor racing and Mum not so much, so Dad will go off for the day on his own, or with my sister and watch the racing, while Mum stays home and catches up on her soaps. She's happy and so is he.
Mum will go off with my sister to places like Ikea while Dad stays at home, you know if one wants to do something else they don't get all iffy and offended that they want to go off and do something the other doesn't.

Mum, until I told her we were having problems last month, never said she didn't like him or anything, but I knew she thought something. He behaves embarassingly around them, getting pissy over silly little things and of course they notice this. I get stressed because I'm trying so hard to keep everyone happy and calm, it's exhausting.
Mum did say that they noticed 5 years ago that I did every single little thing with and for his kid and he wasn't doing anything when they visited.
They do like him yeah and love little un, but they do wonder how the 2 of us got together I think...


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Parents generally keep tight lipped about their childrens partners even if they loath them! You usually only find out their real views after a definite split


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

a lot to catch up with since my last post! 

Muttley, i am sure you know you cannot stay being miserable just to hold them together, just to stop other people from being upset, just to make life easier for OH .......

As a rule i hate selfish people - but right now you have to be selfish. You have to put yourself first - this is your life and it will be your regrets if you dont do anything about it.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

DoodlesRule said:


> Parents generally keep tight lipped about their childrens partners even if they loath them! You usually only find out their real views after a definite split


100% agree with this and Mum won't say much until he's out the picture. Which is why I have come to learn to watch her carefully and figure out myself what she thinks of him.


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

DoodlesRule said:


> Parents generally keep tight lipped about their childrens partners even if they loath them! You usually only find out their real views after a definite split


I wish this was true of my mother! We've got to a point where she doesn't say bad things about him anymore, but they don't see each other much because they can't stand each other! OH gets on fine with my dad though. We don't live together and that works very well.

(((hugs))) Muttly, think carefully about how/when/if you decide to leave, make sure you and Muttly are safe.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

KatieandOliver said:


> I wish this was true of my mother! We've got to a point where she doesn't say bad things about him anymore, but they don't see each other much because they can't stand each other! OH gets on fine with my dad though. We don't live together and that works very well.
> 
> (((hugs))) Muttly, think carefully about how/when/if you decide to leave, make sure you and Muttly are safe.


Thanks Katie, I have been thinking what I will do for work/house/Muttly day care etc....lots of things to think through as I have Muttly too.

Although the first plan would be to go back to driving and get my own van so I could take Muttly to work.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2016)

Muttly said:


> To be really honest, I am not willing to go through therapy for a future I don't want.


Since you sound like you are heading in the direction of leaving, can I revisit this?

One, you may want to seek out some personal therapy anyway. It will be helpful to have someone unbiased to bounce things off of whether you stay or leave. The healthier you are emotionally, the better decisions you will make either way.

Two, I think someone (might as well be you) should call social services and let them know what is going on. This kiddo needs some therapy too and probably some extra services as far as helping her learn and reach developmental milestones.


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Since you sound like you are heading in the direction of leaving, can I revisit this?
> 
> One, you may want to seek out some personal therapy anyway. It will be helpful to have someone unbiased to bounce things off of whether you stay or leave. The healthier you are emotionally, the better decisions you will make either way.
> 
> Two, I think someone (might as well be you) should call social services and let them know what is going on. This kiddo needs some therapy too and probably some extra services as far as helping her learn and reach developmental milestones.


I think this is really important too. If you can, take the time to let her know that it isn't her fault.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

It seems to me that nobody is getting anything out of the relationship and nobody is happy.

I had to end a bad marriage and it was very hard but, if you want a different future for yourself, then that may be what you have to do.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Oh Muttly have a big virtual hug, I think honestly you need to leave, you are not responsible for your OH's happiness or his depression, and you cannot cure him of his depression, he is the only one that can do that, you need and are allowed to be selfish and put your own needs and wants first, you need to be happy too, you are allowed to be happy, I do feel very sorry for the little one but I think staying will only build more and more resentment between all of you, and if you leave he can then be free to go and find his own happiness which won't happen whilst you both stay in an unhappy relationship, sorry for being blunt.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> This ^^^^
> 
> I've been married 32 years next week and no way is it always plain sailing particularly given we have been working together for 23 years too. We argue at times, we have differences of opinion all the time - usually about politics but often about the dogs too but we give each other space and come back and talk things through and both make compromises. You do have to work at things but you also have to want the relationship to work whereas I really don't get the impression you do want it to work and the obstacles to it working have got too great for you. If that is the case then you need to move on and let your OH move on too.





ouesi said:


> Since you sound like you are heading in the direction of leaving, can I revisit this?
> 
> One, you may want to seek out some personal therapy anyway. It will be helpful to have someone unbiased to bounce things off of whether you stay or leave. The healthier you are emotionally, the better decisions you will make either way.
> 
> Two, I think someone (might as well be you) should call social services and let them know what is going on. This kiddo needs some therapy too and probably some extra services as far as helping her learn and reach developmental milestones.


I also wanted to pick up on this too @Muttly . We've had a brief few sessions of counselling when we found ourselves thrown by the IVF fail and it threw us off track. Hiccups of all sorts of sizes happen in relationships and sometimes exploring feeling with another person is a good insurance if you like.

I've been married for 20 years this year (gulp!) and I have one very bad relationship and great relationship to compare our marriage too. We've had massive bulldozers try to wreck us (death of my in-laws, my parents objection to the age gap, our ex's and childlessness the main ones that spring to mind).

We have to work hard at our relationship but we do have a common level of ethics and respect that underpin it which is our corsetry (can't think of a better phrase!). The rest of our disagreements tend to be other stuff. If we argued about the stays on our corset then I know we'd be in trouble. We have once - I couldn't make him see how utterly devastated I was, the words were not there for me and he thought that kids were a bonus and it's the only time we've been polls apart and it was time to call in help.

A bit like how a behaviourist can come along and give us new tools and ways of working with our dogs, so organisations like Relate can be useful. They have lots of ways to communicate so you don't even have to leave the house. It maybe something to consider if you think there might a glimmer of the relationship surviving or you need to set a few ground rules if you are to stay (which, from what you have said, seems necessary).

I absolutely think that the success we have is the ethics and respect which were missing in my great relationship what was built on worship and no practical considerations and the bad one had nothing much at all.

Whatever you decide, hugs and courage.


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## saffysmum (Feb 11, 2015)

I've just read through this entire thread and I just want to give you the biggest hugs Muttley!! 
It sounds like you are trying to keep everyone else happy, but are putting your needs and wants at the bottom of the pile  I truly hope that you can find a solution and that ALL of you can find happiness and fulfilment in your lives. I too live with a husband who has depression, but I have made it perfectly clear over the past 4 years that I will not accept bad manners, or bad behaviour blamed on the depression! I think that he appreciates the boundaries and feels safer because of it.
I have no advice to give re: the child, as I have none myself and it therefore it wouldn't be appropriate to comment.

((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

Oh my this has been one of the saddest threads I've ever read on PF. I'm actually crying for both that lonely little girl and for Muttly.

I work with 7 year olds and just the thought of one of them in a home life like this makes me so sad. But it does sound like you are doing the right thing Muttly. The little girl is young enough that she might not notice your dislike of her (god just writing that is heartbreaking) but if you stay longer it might really effect her. Poor mite. 

I really hope you find happiness Muttly, wherever that might be...hugs to you x


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## marasmum (Jun 12, 2013)

Hi. I also have just read this entire thread. Some really really good advice here and I hope that just putting down in writing how you feel has helped even in a small way. Whatever you decision I wish you strength and resolve as you move forward, as whatever you decide will inevitably be bumpy, but a relief at the same time - if that makes sense. 

Sending you a big virtual hug (((((((((((((hug)))))))))))) take care x


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Oh Muttly, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

From reading through this thread I honestly think you should maybe put yourself first, hard decision though it may be.

I stayed in a physically & emotionally abusive relationship 'for the sake of our child' for 3 1/2 years & the reason I took so long to break free was in part due to being scared about what might be- a sort of better the devil you know situation, & also guilt about the fact that I didn't want to break up a family unit, no matter how dysfunctional it was.

He was the emotional blackmail type (& also not very hands on with raising our son) so would often tell me he would commit suicide if I left, or that I was 'nothing' without him. 

One day I just snapped, picked up my son, walked out the door & drove to stay with my nan until I got back on my feet, & I never looked back.

I can also offer a perspective from being the child of a step parent who didn't want me (not saying you're anything like my stepmother- she was an emotional, though not a physical bully, but you're both alike in the not wanting to raise a child respect, & that is perfectly fine, not all of us want to be parents), & it does cause lasting emotional damage & I wish she had walked away instead of giving years over to resentful bitterness about being saddled with an unwanted child.

Sending you some hugs, cos not everyone in Norfolk is awful- honest!


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> Oh Muttly, I'm so sorry you're going through this.
> 
> From reading through this thread I honestly think you should maybe put yourself first, hard decision though it may be.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the perspective of a child with a Step-Mother who doesn't want to be there. It does help a lot that you would rather she had walked away. It may be tough for a bit, but she will hopefully end up with a Step-Mother who really cherishes her.

When I read how sad and upsetting reading about my life has been to a lot of you, I feel awful tbh. I didn't realise how bad it was until I explained it to you guys and got an outside opinion. You just muddle through don't you, until things start to majorly effect you. I actually think my skin has aged a lot lately for starters!

I know SS, I know some lovely Norfolk people  It's such a beautiful place that I am a little torn between it and Bristol. I will go back to Bristol, because I can finally be close to my family agai, but I will miss this place.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Been thinking about you a lot, and little girl too. Your phrase " no matter how much we love each other" stuck out, you need to look at yourself and see if you meant it, or it's in the past and habit. If you still love each other please give counselling a try, your OH may say things that you just didn't realise he was feeling. If it's truely over then hanging in isn't an option I guess. Plenty of parents stay together " for the sake of the children", but if you resent her then one day you're going to say something ( probably just let it out without thinking), and really hurt her. She says she loves you, I don't think she's being manipulative, I think she's saying what she feels, same as when she's not happy. At that age kids can fake innocence ( no, it wasn't me...), but can't fake emotions. She says she loves you, she does. So you need to provide constance in her life, even if you move out. If you make a sudden break she will lose not just "Mum", but her grandparents as well ( would they want to lose their granddaughter, or are they just faking feelings too?), and even the little dog she reads to and throws ball for. Without making you guilty, just for a moment see it her way: a mum gone, grandparents gone, doggy freind gone, dad leaving her to play alone and no freinds to play with after school. It sounds pretty bleak doesn't it? I just hurt for her and wish I could make it all better.

Now, if it's really not working for you, you need to be happy for yourself, rather than staying out of guilt. But can you gently explain that it's not her fault ( really, it isn't is it? With a proper supportive OH, playing with his daughter, sorting out playdates, getting a meal on the table for when you get home etc life would be very different). Summer holidays are coming up, if you make the break is there any way she could come visit you and her "grandparents" at the end of the hols, so she can still keep you as a freind/aunt and still feel loved by her "grandparents" and see Muttly. You look after her now anyway, an odd few days in holidays really wouldn't kill you, and would give her something to hang onto. 
You or OH need to ask for help from social services, a named person to be your contact.
School should also have a support worker, school liason officer they are called, to act as go between between school and home. There is also a child protection officer for each school, not just for protection from abuse but for wellbeing too, so find out who it is ( normally a teacher) and tell them what's going on in confidence.

I wish you all the best in your decision, I really do ( I think over a year ago you posted about something else and I picked up real problem was OH and suggested you consider leaving), but this little girl makes just packing and going much more difficult. 

Whether you like it or not, at the moment you're her only help and comfort. How does your OH make a grown woman with a job, who also runs a household, feel a failure? By withholding praise, making you try harder to keep him from being angry/ upset, saying mean things and resenting your " you" time. Now look at how he treats his daughter: playing by herself because he can't talk to other parents ( really? Even if they don't speak English at all their children must!), withdrawing and sitting in another room while she plays, not wanting to have a pet ( if Muttly leaves who will she read to?), and if he follows the pattern of emotional abuse to her as well as you, I suspect he wouldn't be above calling her stupid or thick. You can get up and go ( where? Back to your loving parents), she just has to stay and be knocked back a bit at a time until she is what he makes her - a failure with no freinds, no pets and no family. It's truely heartbreaking to watch it unfold, even via a forum, and be unable to reach out and tell her it will be OK. Please don't letter OH destroy a young life, ask for help, and be there for her to visit.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Muttly said:


> Thank you for the perspective of a child with a Step-Mother who doesn't want to be there. It does help a lot that you would rather she had walked away. It may be tough for a bit, but she will hopefully end up with a Step-Mother who really cherishes her.
> 
> When I read how sad and upsetting reading about my life has been to a lot of you, I feel awful tbh. I didn't realise how bad it was until I explained it to you guys and got an outside opinion. You just muddle through don't you, until things start to majorly effect you. I actually think my skin has aged a lot lately for starters!
> 
> I know SS, I know some lovely Norfolk people  It's such a beautiful place that I am a little torn between it and Bristol. I will go back to Bristol, because I can finally be close to my family agai, *but I will miss this place*.


No reason you & Muttly can't come here for a nice holiday now & then- maybe hire a boat for a week or go on lots of coastal walks


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Catharinem said:


> Whether you like it or not, at the moment you're her only help and comfort. How does your OH make a grown woman with a job, who also runs a household, feel a failure? By withholding praise, making you try harder to keep him from being angry/ upset, saying mean things and resenting your " you" time. Now look at how he treats his daughter: playing by herself because he can't talk to other parents ( really? Even if they don't speak English at all their children must!), withdrawing and sitting in another room while she plays, not wanting to have a pet ( if Muttly leaves who will she read to?), and if he follows the pattern of emotional abuse to her as well as you, I suspect he wouldn't be above calling her stupid or thick. You can get up and go ( where? Back to your loving parents), she just has to stay and be knocked back a bit at a time until she is what he makes her - a failure with no freinds, no pets and no family. It's truely heartbreaking to watch it unfold, even via a forum, and be unable to reach out and tell her it will be OK. Please don't letter OH destroy a young life, ask for help, and be there for her to visit.


Trouble is Muttly cannot stay purely for the sake of the child, as resentment will just build up and build up until it bursts, and you never know, Muttly leaving (if she leaves) could be the kick up the backside her other half needs to sort himself out, help himself out and actually start being a caring father to his daughter, it could leave him open to meeting someone who wants to be a stepmother to his child, you cannot tell what is going to happen in the future, but you can't sit hoping for a miracle to happen.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

MontyMaude said:


> Trouble is Muttly cannot stay purely for the sake of the child, as resentment will just build up and build up until it bursts, and you never know, Muttly leaving (if she leaves) could be the kick up the backside her other half needs to sort himself out, help himself out and actually start being a caring father to his daughter, it could leave him open to meeting someone who wants to be a stepmother to his child, you cannot tell what is going to happen in the future, but you can't sit hoping for a miracle to happen.


Thank you for this Monty. I was a bit taken back by what Catherine said. What she is saying is the opposite of what everyone else is and exactly what I have been doing for ages! I have been staying for these reasons, but it's costing me my sanity and health and life!
I am not going to guilted anymore into staying for the 'poor little child'

If I leave, they will most likey go back and stay with OH's Dad, back in the town where all his family are. She will be able to see and play with her 4 cousins and 2 step-Cousins, she can see her Nan, and her Grandad and Aunt. THIS is probably better for her than where she is now anyway!
OH will maybe get support from his Neice's as some are 17/18 and could babysit her for him too.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Muttly said:


> Thank you for this Monty. I was a bit taken back by what Catherine said. What she is saying is the opposite of what everyone else is and exactly what I have been doing for ages! I have been staying for these reasons, but it's costing me my sanity and health and life!
> I am not going to guilted anymore into staying for the 'poor little child'
> 
> If I leave, they will most likey go back and stay with OH's Dad, back in the town where all his family are. She will be able to see and play with her 4 cousins and 2 step-Cousins, she can see her Nan, and her Grandad and Aunt. THIS is probably better for her than where she is now anyway!
> OH will maybe get support from his Neice's as some are 17/18 and could babysit her for him too.


I did do a little a gasp too  but it is horribly sad for the child, but and again it sounds awful but she is not yours and she is not your flesh and blood, and you cannot sacrifice your sanity and happiness to stay in an unhappy relationship with her father and her as it will taint and poison everything and all that will happen is that there will be 3 desperately unhappy people sharing a toxic space at home.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

[QUOTE="Catharinem, post: 1064595734, member: 1420679". You can get up and go ( where? Back to your loving parents), she just has to stay and be knocked back a bit at a time until she is what he makes her - a failure with no freinds, no pets and no family. It's truely heartbreaking to watch it unfold, even via a forum, and be unable to reach out and tell her it will be OK. Please don't letter OH destroy a young life, ask for help, and be there for her to visit.[/QUOTE]

I'm not happy with this comment. I shouldn't be made to feel bad because I have loving parents and another place to go.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> [QUOTE="Catharinem, post: 1064595734, member: 1420679". You can get up and go ( where? Back to your loving parents), she just has to stay and be knocked back a bit at a time until she is what he makes her - a failure with no freinds, no pets and no family. It's truely heartbreaking to watch it unfold, even via a forum, and be unable to reach out and tell her it will be OK. Please don't letter OH destroy a young life, ask for help, and be there for her to visit.


I'm not happy with this comment. I shouldn't be made to feel bad because I have loving parents and another place to go.[/QUOTE]

Every one is going to have a slightly different viewpoint on this but you are the one living with the situation and you are really the only one here who can decide what to do. I don't think anyone wants to see you sacrifice your life and happiness but of course we worry about the child and what will become of her. The information you have since given about OH's extended family and the possible family support he might get and other relatives who may help with her is reassuring and does put a slightly different slant on things. It really is down to you to make up your mind what you are going to do and get on and do it so that you and they can start to get on with making new lives.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Mutley, I feel for you.
There comes a time when you have to stand up and be a person in your own right. We are all born individuals but it's easy to lose sight of "me" as life progresses.

I married, had 2 lovely boys and much as I worshipped the ground there Dad walked on, it wasn't reciprocated. I threw myself into making the best of it numerous times until I didn't love him anymore. Then I kept trying for the children. Inevitably there came a time when it wasn't helping them and we parted. I met a wonderful man who raised my children as his own from the ages of 10 and 6. Courtesy of him they are very successful young men and I have 2 lovely grandchildren. Sadly he died a couple of years ago but left a wonderful legacy of happy memories behind. We are all extremely fortunate to have had him in our lives and wouldn't be the people we are today without him.
I am now on my own and intend to stay that way. I can please myself and enjoy Heidi to the full. The beginning of another happy era I hope.

Don't waste time on what isn't working. Life is too short and you deserve to be happy whether in a relationship or on your own. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if I could go back, I wouldn't have spent so long in an unhappy marriage.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Mutley, I feel for you.
> There comes a time when you have to stand up and be a person in your own right. We are all born individuals but it's easy to lose sight of "me" as life progresses.
> 
> I married, had 2 lovely boys and much as I worshipped the ground there Dad walked on, it wasn't reciprocated. I threw myself into making the best of it numerous times until I didn't love him anymore. Then I kept trying for the children. Inevitably there came a time when it wasn't helping them and we parted. I met a wonderful man who raised my children as his own from the ages of 10 and 6. Courtesy of him they are very successful young men and I have 2 lovely grandchildren. Sadly he died a couple of years ago but left a wonderful legacy of happy memories behind. We are all extremely fortunate to have had him in our lives and wouldn't be the people we are today without him.
> ...


Thank you for sharing this. So sorry for your loss, he sounded wonderful. 
She deserves a chance to have someone like this, it isn't me. I am trying to think of everyone involved because as much as I don;t want o be a mother, I don't want to see her suffering either.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2016)

Muttly said:


> If I leave, they will most likey go back and stay with OH's Dad, back in the town where all his family are. She will be able to see and play with her 4 cousins and 2 step-Cousins, she can see her Nan, and her Grandad and Aunt. THIS is probably better for her than where she is now anyway!
> OH will maybe get support from his Neice's as some are 17/18 and could babysit her for him too.


Yes this does sound much better!
Why is he not seeking this support now?


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Yes this does sound much better!
> Why is he not seeking this support now?


I'm guessing because Muttly is there, doing it all for him so he has no need.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Yup. They are an hour and a half away too, so not on the doorstep to come babysit.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

You are welcome.
I thought it was worth sharing if you can get something from it.
He had children and I was step mum. It was difficult. He wanted them to have the same upbringing as my boys. One even came to live with us for a year but we could never break through.....
Life isn't easy and things don't always go the way we hope no matter how hard we try. Throwing in the towel is never easy.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

We spoke more at lunch and that turned into an arguement. Fighting a loosing battle here  Into the weekend with a bad outlook. No doubt I will throw myself into cleaning the house, then go for a long walk with Muttly.


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## ExD (Jul 1, 2016)

I'm completely new to this thread, being relatively new to the group and at first I told myself to keep out of it because its a delicate subject, and most of your advisers are suggesting using a hammer to crack a nut. Although its a very large nut you have here.
Firstly, no-one is happy - A depressed person shouldn't be left in sole charge of a child, so I hope he's getting treatment.
Child is unhappy because it has never been loved and is difficult to love.
You are unhappy because you've had an unlovable brat foisted on you which you naturally resent especially as you are expected to shoulder the largest burden of care. I'm taking it this is your dog? if Mutley is co-owned there's a whole new can of worms to open!
Dog comes out of this best because he doesn't carry baggage in his brain, and is young enough to appreciate a companion - however boisterous.
Perhaps for your own sanity you shou.ld leave BUT then what will happen? If social services remove the child, (which might be for the best who knows?) how will that affect depressed father? Will he care? Will you care? Will the child care? What will happen to Mutley?
You all need professional help, even if it is unwelcome. Good old Google might come up with suggestions for family counseling in your area - or your GP.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2016)

ExD said:


> I'm completely new to this thread, being relatively new to the group and at first I told myself to keep out of it because its a delicate subject, and most of your advisers are suggesting using a hammer to crack a nut. Although its a very large nut you have here.
> Firstly, no-one is happy - A depressed person shouldn't be left in sole charge of a child, so I hope he's getting treatment.
> Child is unhappy because it has never been loved and is difficult to love.
> You are unhappy because you've had an unlovable brat foisted on you which you naturally resent especially as you are expected to shoulder the largest burden of care. I'm taking it this is your dog? if Mutley is co-owned there's a whole new can of worms to open!
> ...


Did you just refer to a 7 year old child with developmental difficulties as an "it" and "unloveable brat"?
Wow....


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## AnimalzRock (Jul 2, 2014)

OK, as I see it:

You really do want to leave but are torn because of the effect this will have on OH and his daughter (who I think you actually care for a lot more than you acknowledge, despite you not having wanted her there, otherwise you would not be considering her future as much as you are - for that you have to be commended).

In your shoes, I would make plans to leave (i.e. arrangements to stop temporarily with parents, new job, etc) but try to put support in place for your partner's little girl, who is the one who really needs most consideration in this. Maybe talk to his family and tell them you are planning on leaving and that he will need their support. That way you will not have just walked away and left them "high and dry" but will have done as much as you could before leaving to ensure they will manage without you.

Where do you want to be in 10 years' time? Do you want to still be in the same situation, with 10 years' more resentment in the bank, or do you want to be elsewhere, possibly with a new partner who makes you happy? Only YOU can make it happen.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ExD said:


> I'm completely new to this thread, being relatively new to the group and at first I told myself to keep out of it because its a delicate subject, and most of your advisers are suggesting using a hammer to crack a nut. Although its a very large nut you have here.
> Firstly, no-one is happy - A depressed person shouldn't be left in sole charge of a child, so I hope he's getting treatment.
> Child is unhappy because it has never been loved and is difficult to love.
> You are unhappy because you've had an unlovable brat foisted on you which you naturally resent especially as you are expected to shoulder the largest burden of care. I'm taking it this is your dog? if Mutley is co-owned there's a whole new can of worms to open!
> ...


Not sure you have been reading the same thread as me because I don't see anyone advising using a hammer to crack a nut or a very large nut. I see a very unhappy family unit thrown together by unhappy circumstances. Not sure how a 7 year old child can be described as unlovable by anyone who hasn't even met her FFS  to me she just sounds like a confused kid trying to make the best of the circumstances she finds herself in and not understanding appropriate play behaviour with a small dog. Counselling was suggested by some of us many times but the OP has made it clear she isn't interested in going down that route as it would be for a future she doesn't want. The dog belongs to the OP so would go with her and she has already said her OH - father of the child refuses to seek help for his depression.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

MontyMaude said:


> Trouble is Muttly cannot stay purely for the sake of the child, as resentment will just build up and build up until it bursts.


I couldnt agree more ! and I think Catharine comments are a bit harsh to Muttley.



Muttly said:


> I am not going to guilted anymore into staying for the 'poor little child'


And neither should you have too!

You have to do what is best for you.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Ok, I'm not expecting to come on here and everyone agree with me, in fact this has been going on for many years and I've never had the courage to ask strangers and outsiders for their opinions (for fear of being told I am mean and ungrateful) and I have been overwhelmed that that most agree that it's not selfish to think of MY future.

She is a lovely little girl (everyone who meet her, loves her) who just knows how to push the right buttons (bare in mind I have no other kids to compare her too, I don't how normal she is but neither of us can get through to her to get her to understand).
I do care about her future and welfare and always have done, or I wouldn't have helped to rescue her and provide a home.
However right from day one there was a 'I don't want this situation' in the back of my mind, but my priority at that time was helping her and OH. We also didn;t realise it was permanent then....
When OH's family heard about this, they all came round to basically celebrate!  Saying "Ooh aren't you lucky, a little girl without the pregnancy and giving birth" and "ooh it won't be long till she is calling you mummy" etc.....etc....etc.....
This terrified me and I nearly went then, but I knew OH needed my help because SS had said "either you take her now or she is taken into care" he needed to show them he could provide a stable family life and we had just got engaged. Before he lost her forever.....

I tried to be that person but after all this time, I am just not, but noone can say I haven't tried. I am doing more damage now than anything, now she is pushing me to my limits and so is OH, I can't put on a happy face, smile and say "I know you don't mean it sweetheart"


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## AnimalzRock (Jul 2, 2014)

You sound so weary . . . .

I get the impression you are actually caring for TWO children, not one.


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## Laney_Lemons (Mar 23, 2016)

@Muttly I have to say well done for your manner over this thread.... its very hard to get your feelings across over a typed message, people take things the wrong way or nit pick a certain sentence ... but you have taken everyone's constructive advice on board and gave reasons etc back to your situation to help people understand..


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Muttley - if your OH was a more responsible hands-on parent then maybe you wouldn't be in the situation you are in now. But he isn't - because you are doing it all and will continue to do so.

Even if you are not 100% sure about splitting up permanently, I honestly do feel that you would hugely benefit from a break, sooner rather than later. If you could get away to your parents for a a couple of weeks on your own with Muttley, it will give you the distance you need to clear your head and start making plans for a happy future, whether that be with OH or without him.

Hugs to you - my PM is always open if you need a chat x


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Thanks guys. You are all giving me a great outlet and great advice 

Earlier on I snapped at OH, he was moaning on about how often Muttly creeps up on the bed in the early hours and 'he knows I have been letting him on my lap in the mornings on the sofa because of this" (Muttly always stays right cuddled into me and never bothers OH, so does it really matter..)

I just went "OMG, do you not think we have bigger problems to sort out than whether Muttly is on the bloody bed or not????" :Banghead and he says I have no perspective???


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

lullabydream said:


> Muttly...i know you don't want to be her mother but to all children adults are role models...and living in the same household its really not possible to be anything but a primary carer, role model for her.
> 
> You are certainly taking on a parenting role, even though you think that's the last thing you want to do. I can't see anyone in a household such as yours not being able to do so.
> 
> ...


Out of interest, LD, which breed did you go for? (I'm a child psychotherapist, amongst other things....)


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

(((((HUGS))))) Muttly. Be gentle with yourself while you work out what you are doing. Thinking of you


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Do you have examples of healthy relationships to look at?
> Can you picture what something like being annoyed by the dog would look like in a healthy relationship?
> 
> OH and I don't always agree on everything, and as normal human beings we get tired, grumpy, unreasonable... But even when one of us is angry, it still feels safe. Anger is okay, it's a normal human emotion. Getting angry at a dog who woke you up or stepped on your foot and hurt you is totally normal. Feeling unsafe around someone who is angry is not normal. Does that make sense?


A thousand likes for this ouesi - you are describing the marriage I got out of.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Thanks guys. You are all giving me a great outlet and great advice
> 
> Earlier on I snapped at OH, he was moaning on about how often Muttly creeps up on the bed in the early hours and 'he knows I have been letting him on my lap in the mornings on the sofa because of this" (Muttly always stays right cuddled into me and never bothers OH, so does it really matter..)
> 
> I just went "OMG, do you not think we have bigger problems to sort out than whether Muttly is on the bloody bed or not????" :Banghead and he says I have no perspective???


And so what if Muttly creeps up on the bed, or sits on your lap on the sofa ..... good lord, in my house if the dogs want a snuggle then they are getting one ! Obviously I dont want 3 dogs in bed with us all night long but Oscar is quite sensitive to noise and if he is anxious he gets in for a cuddle. He hasnt ruined the bed, neither of us have died ..... so whats the issue.

Have you actually told OH you are pretty much ready to leave ? or does he think everything is fine (like men often do).

Just out of interest - i notice you dont really come on here in the evenings or weekends. Are you just too busy or is this place something he doesn't know about and wouldnt like it perhaps ?


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2016)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> A thousand likes for this ouesi - you are describing the marriage I got out of.


I hope you meant the marriage where you feel unsafe, not mine where we bitch and moan and get angry but still feel safe!


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Westie Mum said:


> And so what if Muttly creeps up on the bed, or sits on your lap on the sofa ..... good lord, in my house if the dogs want a snuggle then they are getting one ! Obviously I dont want 3 dogs in bed with us all night long but Oscar is quite sensitive to noise and if he is anxious he gets in for a cuddle. He hasnt ruined the bed, neither of us have died ..... so whats the issue.
> 
> Have you actually told OH you are pretty much ready to leave ? or does he think everything is fine (like men often do).
> 
> *Just out of interest - i notice you dont really come on here in the evenings or weekends. Are you just too busy or is this place something he doesn't know about and wouldnt like it perhaps *?


Just for this and unsure if the same with Muttly but I only ever really come on during the day on weekdays as I come on here whilst at work (  ) and I'm far too busy at evenings / weekends to come here.

Plus TBH I can't be arsed  too busy having a life  ( I'm kidding  )


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

Such wise words on this thread. No original thoughts from me, and not 'you should do THIS' but, rather, what I would do in your situation, if I felt the way you clearly feel:
1. Arrange accommodation for yourself and pooch (parents or wherever) in the area (Bristol?) you want to be in;
2. Start applying for jobs where pooch can be with you (he'll need you for security in all the changes);
3. Contact the child's social worker or the ed psych at school and tell them what she needs;
4. Write a lovely letter for the child to read once you're gone;
5. Only give advanced notice to OH if this does not put you in danger;
6. Leave.

In light and peace;
Blaise


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> And so what if Muttly creeps up on the bed, or sits on your lap on the sofa ..... good lord, in my house if the dogs want a snuggle then they are getting one ! Obviously I dont want 3 dogs in bed with us all night long but Oscar is quite sensitive to noise and if he is anxious he gets in for a cuddle. He hasnt ruined the bed, neither of us have died ..... so whats the issue.
> 
> Have you actually told OH you are pretty much ready to leave ? or does he think everything is fine (like men often do).
> 
> Just out of interest - i notice you dont really come on here in the evenings or weekends. Are you just too busy or is this place something he doesn't know about and wouldnt like it perhaps ?


I know! It really doesn;t matter, because Muttly always settles down when we go up to bed, on his pillow on the floor. He wont try and get up until we are asleep, he ain't stupid :Hilarious but always right over my side so not bothering OH. So I don't see the problem??

I come on here while at work, evenings are non stop so don't get time and weekends I generally don't get much time either.
But no, I don't want OH to know abut here either.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ExD said:


> I'm completely new to this thread, being relatively new to the group and at first I told myself to keep out of it because its a delicate subject, and most of your advisers are suggesting using a hammer to crack a nut. Although its a very large nut you have here.
> Firstly, no-one is happy - A depressed person shouldn't be left in sole charge of a child, so I hope he's getting treatment.
> Child is unhappy because it has never been loved and is difficult to love.
> You are unhappy because you've had an unlovable brat foisted on you which you naturally resent especially as you are expected to shoulder the largest burden of care. I'm taking it this is your dog? if Mutley is co-owned there's a whole new can of worms to open!
> ...


An unlovable Brat?

You're right. You should have kept out of this thread.


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## ExD (Jul 1, 2016)

Ouch, I'm off!


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I think in a way, he is focusing his anger/disappointment/hurt on Goldie and making it in his mind his fault that you having issues because he has given you comfort and gets you away from the family and gives you space.

Do you all have to stay in Norfolk? do you think if you could all move to Bristol or near Bristol it would help as I get the feeling you want to move back to the familiar and family?


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I think in a way, he is focusing his anger/disappointment/hurt on Goldie and making it in his mind his fault that you having issues because he has given you comfort and gets you away from the family and gives you space.

Do you all have to stay in Norfolk? do you think if you could all move to Bristol or near Bristol it would help as I get the feeling you want to move back to the familiar and family?


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Muttly said:


> I know! It really doesn;t matter, because Muttly always settles down when we go up to bed, on his pillow on the floor. He wont try and get up until we are asleep, he ain't stupid :Hilarious but always right over my side so not bothering OH. So I don't see the problem??
> 
> I come on here while at work, evenings are non stop so don't get time and weekends I generally don't get much time either.
> But no, I don't want OH to know abut here either.


You have spoken about him and Muttly before and it's concerned me.

I'm not a million miles from you if you just need a bit of time out, I know we've not 'met' but if you need a friend face to face, just pop us a PM. Happy to say it's to talk dog training.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Been doing end of term stuff this afternoon and evening ( leavers assembly- as opposed to church service the other day- then end of term beach party, then getting them safely off for a weekend at Grandma's), so sorry I've just rejoined and realised I upset you @Muttly. I have phrased things clumsily, in no way am I trying to guilt you into staying, nor feel bad for having good parents. Please let me try again:
You are obviously very unhappy, yet still say you love each other. Take a real hard look at that statement. You seem to care for him, and even his daughter, but you have never said how he shows he loves you. It very much comes across that you stay out of duty and habit rather than loving and being in love.
It sounds like emotional abuse from your OH towards yourself, only from your posts as we don't know you in real life. Whether this is through manipulative behaviour or depression is almost irrelevant, the effect it has on you is debilitating and it needs to stop.
If you have any hope of a better future with him, seek counselling, if not then get away and regain who you used to be.
However, there is a child in this who is innocent, who cannot ask for help for herself. By leaving her with her dad, what will happen? You think his family will step in, but don't leave it to chance. He might be too depressed to move house, he might neglect her, or he could erode away at her like he did you. Maybe even tell her that she's the reason you left, and that's a big burden for little shoulders. Please ask for support from the social services who placed her with you ( would she have been placed with your single OH with depression?), and from the school so she can have someone to talk to in confidence. As you have been a stable focus in her life for so long, and you say your parents love her "they like him and love her", I'm just asking you to still be in her life, as a freind if not a mum, and allow her to keep the relationship she has with your parents. If, as you say, they love her, then having been such great parents to you, it sounds like they wouldn't just cut her out of their lives if you split with her father. She also plays ( admittedly roughly) and reads to Muttly, doesn't sound like her dad will let her have a pet without you there to take care of it. If you could manage it at all then having her come visit her "grandparents", or you coming to stay near your favourite walks and taking her for a beach walk followed by fish and chips or ice cream could give her the anchor she needs in a changing world. 
As I've said before, I really do wish you all the best, just very sensitive to children being hurt, which I know isn't your intention. I have my own history which I won't go into here, I find myself often seeing things from the perspective of the child I once was, but I am sorry if you were hurt by the way I said things. Whatever you decide I will support you, this has been weighing you down for a long time now, and I know this isn't an easy decision for you to make.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't come on here often and will possibly be slammed for my opinion ,also I've not read the whole thread the first two pages left me feeling a little upset!!
I cannot believe the OP compared a child to a cat .... A child is far more important than any animal ...... How can you come across so cold to a child who has been through what this child has been through and have the difficulties that you say she is presenting with..
With one parent unable to care for the child and the father emotionally not on board, do the child a favour if you will not step up to the plate because of a dog and not liking children and let SS put her into a home who will nurture her and bring her on! 
I can honestly say humanity seems to lacking here... 
If your wondering why I've come on so strong, I have child like this and they need patience, love and understanding!!! We have four dogs and communication is key. She's a little girl get a grip!


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

piggybaker said:


> I don't come on here often and will possibly be slammed for my opinion ,also I've not read the whole thread the first two pages left me feeling a little upset!!
> I cannot believe the OP compared a child to a cat .... A child is far more important than any animal ...... How can you come across so cold to a child who has been through what this child has been through and have the difficulties that you say she is presenting with..
> With one parent unable to care for the child and the father emotionally not on board, do the child a favour if you will not step up to the plate because of a dog and not liking children and let SS put her into a home who will nurture her and bring her on!
> I can honestly say humanity seems to lacking here...
> If your wondering why I've come on so strong, I have child like this and they need patience, love and understanding!!! We have four dogs and communication is key. She's a little girl get a grip!


You might find it beneficial to read all of Muttlys comments in the whole thread before coming to any conclusion. They build a clearer picture of her situation and her feelings which I don't think is explained fully in her initial posts.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

piggybaker said:


> I don't come on here often and will possibly be slammed for my opinion ,also I've not read the whole thread the first two pages left me feeling a little upset!!
> I cannot believe the OP compared a child to a cat .... A child is far more important than any animal ...... How can you come across so cold to a child who has been through what this child has been through and have the difficulties that you say she is presenting with..
> With one parent unable to care for the child and the father emotionally not on board, do the child a favour if you will not step up to the plate because of a dog and not liking children and let SS put her into a home who will nurture her and bring her on!
> I can honestly say humanity seems to lacking here...
> If your wondering why I've come on so strong, I have child like this and they need patience, love and understanding!!! We have four dogs and communication is key. She's a little girl get a grip!


Nothing annoys me more than people who don't bother to read a whole thread but still can't resist laying into the OP for how they feel. Its great that you love children but not everyone does, not everyone wants to be a parent and believe it or not all women don't have maternal/nurturing instincts for children. You can't force yourself to love a child just because other people think you should. Oh and who says a child is far more important than any animal? I don't have children, my animals are my life and my responsibility and no I don't consider a child is far more important than them.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

piggybaker said:


> I don't come on here often and will possibly be slammed for my opinion ,also I've not read the whole thread the first two pages left me feeling a little upset!!
> I cannot believe the OP compared a child to a cat ....* A child is far more important than any animal ..*.... How can you come across so cold to a child who has been through what this child has been through and have the difficulties that you say she is presenting with..
> With one parent unable to care for the child and the father emotionally not on board, do the child a favour if you will not step up to the plate because of a dog and not liking children and let SS put her into a home who will nurture her and bring her on!
> I can honestly say humanity seems to lacking here...
> If your wondering why I've come on so strong, I have child like this and they need patience, love and understanding!!! We have four dogs and communication is key. She's a little girl get a grip!


In my opinion *No living being, be it human, dog, elephant or ant, is more important then any other living being. In my mind all living beings are equal. *


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## Laney_Lemons (Mar 23, 2016)

She explains herself fully through the whole thread, you really need to read it all the understand, the start caught me off guard however I think it was said out of dept frustration, unhappiness and she was just so very fed up with her life (we have all been there) ... Sometimes messages over Internet/ txt are taken up the wrong way in what she actually means and feels ...but she does explain fully through the thread when people questioned her like you are now, she is only human and she has feelings as well.. People are on her side aswell as the little girls, she deeply cares for her andd she has given up 5yrs to help raise her when it wasn't what she wanted so she's not a bad person and if she does leave it won't be taken lightly , please remember her parents seem to have let her down first of all NOT @Muttly ... She stepped up when her mother failed her and it always seems to be the person who helps the most and is struggling to cope gets the most critism


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

piggybaker said:


> I don't come on here often and will possibly be slammed for my opinion ,also I've not read the whole thread the first two pages left me feeling a little upset!!
> I cannot believe the OP compared a child to a cat .... A child is far more important than any animal ...... How can you come across so cold to a child who has been through what this child has been through and have the difficulties that you say she is presenting with..
> With one parent unable to care for the child and the father emotionally not on board, do the child a favour if you will not step up to the plate because of a dog and not liking children and let SS put her into a home who will nurture her and bring her on!
> I can honestly say humanity seems to lacking here...
> If your wondering why I've come on so strong, I have child like this and they need patience, love and understanding!!! We have four dogs and communication is key. She's a little girl get a grip!


Please read the whole thread.You are in danger of sharing the same views at Andrea Loathsome, cherry picking out phrases with a can't be arsed lack of respect.. Have a little empathy for the OP by reading everything.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Nothing annoys me more than people who don't bother to read a whole thread but still can't resist laying into the OP for how they feel. Its great that you love children but not everyone does, not everyone wants to be a parent and believe it or not all women don't have maternal/nurturing instincts for children. You can't force yourself to love a child just because other people think you should. Oh and who says a child is far more important than any animal? I don't have children, my animals are my life and my responsibility and no I don't consider a child is far more important than them.


Wish we still had the rep button RPH

Couldn't agree more


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I feel very sad for you. You seem like you're trapped in a black hole and don't know how to escape.

Is it guilt stopping you from leaving? Fear what will happen if you do?

I think your OH is a lazy selfish man who has zero respect or affection for you and his daughter. He won't get better if he has you to rub his feet and burp him. I'm sorry but he sounds like a child to me. 

From reading your comments it sounds like a lot of the issues boil down to your partner. You said you were having problems before the daughter came. 

I don't know this girl and we can only go by what you say but i wouldn't be surprised if this was a lot less stressful for you in terms of trying with her if your OH bucked his ideas up and supported you. You sound physically and emotionally drained. No wonder you're finding it hard to have any positive emotions. 

Please don't blame yourself. It sounds like you've had this on your shoulders for quite some time. 

Hugs.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Huge hugs for you @Muttly. This thread really breaks my heart. Being at home with your OH is where you should be happiest, where you feel safe and where you look forward to going at the end of a long day... not somewhere that makes you so deeply unhappy 

I don't mean for you to answer this publicly, but just something to think about.. if you hadn't written this thread, what advice would you give the OP?

Once you've answered that, I really hope you can find the strength to follow your own advice.. xo


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Nettles said:


> Huge hugs for you @Muttly. This thread really breaks my heart. Being at home with your OH is where you should be happiest, where you feel safe and where you look forward to going at the end of a long day... not somewhere that makes you so deeply unhappy
> 
> *I don't mean for you to answer this publicly, but just something to think about.. if you hadn't written this thread, what advice would you give the OP?*
> 
> Once you've answered that, I really hope you can find the strength to follow your own advice.. xo


Yes - the 'be your best friend' approach is a good one


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> Out of interest, LD, which breed did you go for? (I'm a child psychotherapist, amongst other things....)


We went for a shih Tzu...

Oh my, she's fallen so lucky..with a 7 month old, well now 8 month old shih Tzu. This puppy had waltz into the house like its been there all its life, its calm and sensible.

The age was right, and coat texture and playfulness just right too.

Staffy had been suggested but her son would have found them too much..i adore my staffy cross.

Shih Tzu was never a breed on the list for them....

Muttly sorry for going off topic...

Big hugs to you xxxx


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

MollySmith said:


> You have spoken about him and Muttly before and it's concerned me.
> 
> I'm not a million miles from you if you just need a bit of time out, I know we've not 'met' but if you need a friend face to face, just pop us a PM. Happy to say it's to talk dog training.


Thank you so much


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Animallover26 said:


> In my opinion *No living being, be it human, dog, elephant or ant, is more important then any other living being. In my mind all living beings are equal. *


So true. Thanks AL. and thanks to the people who replied to that poster in my defence while I wasn't here.

I have bared my soul on this forum because there are so many nice people who I knew would understand. I didn't expect everyone too of course, but please don't skim read the thread and comment without ALL of the information. It doesn't help me.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Thank you so much


Same @Muttly I'm only in Peterborough so if you feel like meeting up at all for a chat or something then I'd be up for that


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Nettles said:


> Huge hugs for you @Muttly. This thread really breaks my heart. Being at home with your OH is where you should be happiest, where you feel safe and where you look forward to going at the end of a long day... not somewhere that makes you so deeply unhappy
> 
> I don't mean for you to answer this publicly, but just something to think about.. if you hadn't written this thread, what advice would you give the OP?
> 
> Once you've answered that, I really hope you can find the strength to follow your own advice.. xo


Thanks for that Nettles, that is a good approach to take and something I will think about now.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> Same @Muttly I'm only in Peterborough so if you feel like meeting up at all for a chat or something then I'd be up for that


Thanks Hannah


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I'm in Leicester but occasionally am in Hunstanton/Norfolk to see my godchildren so when I'm next down I'll PM and I would also be up for an ice cream/milkshake/anything food related :Hungry

and a chat of course


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> I'm in Leicester but occasionally am in Hunstanton/Norfolk to see my *godchildren* so when I'm next down I'll PM and I would also be up for an ice cream/milkshake/anything food related :Hungry
> 
> and a chat of course


I read that as 'goatchildren'...


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Pappychi said:


> I'm in Leicester but occasionally am in Hunstanton/Norfolk to see my godchildren so when I'm next down I'll PM and I would also be up for an ice cream/milkshake/anything food related :Hungry
> 
> and a chat of course


Thank you, great my 2 great loves, dogs and food :Happy


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> I read that as 'goatchildren'...


I googled Goatchildren to see if I could find a funny pic but it left me feeling about WTF 

Found a child's soft toy which features a baby goat which you can pull out the mummy goat's foo! Umm....


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> I googled Goatchildren to see if I could find a funny pic but it left me feeling about WTF
> 
> *Found a child's soft toy which features a baby goat which you can pull out the mummy goat's foo!* Umm....


I Googled (because I just can't help myself) & found this: http://www.theweek.co.uk/72105/baby-goat-born-with-a-human-face-in-malaysia

Looks like Son of Chewbacca


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> I Googled (because I just can't help myself) & found this: http://www.theweek.co.uk/72105/baby-goat-born-with-a-human-face-in-malaysia
> 
> Looks like Son of Chewbacca


And my keyboard is covered in tea....

The f*ck is that?! :Jawdrop

There is someone in the nearest village who walks their Pygmy Goats around on a leash, I really must get a picture one day as she did the Santa Fun Run/Walk with them dressed up as mini reindeer last Christmas :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

Pappychi said:


> And my keyboard is covered in tea....
> 
> The f*ck is that?! :Jawdrop
> 
> There is someone in the nearest village who walks their Pygmy Goats around on a leash, I really must get a picture one day as she did the Santa Fun Run/Walk with them dressed up as mini reindeer last Christmas :Hilarious:Hilarious


Haha I did the same except I nearly snorted cola out my nose!

Pygmy goats as little reindeer would b adorable! Cuteness overload


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> And my keyboard is covered in tea....
> 
> The f*ck is that?! :Jawdrop
> 
> There is someone in the nearest village who walks their Pygmy Goats around on a leash, I really must get a picture one day as she did the Santa Fun Run/Walk with them dressed up as mini reindeer last Christmas :Hilarious:Hilarious


Oh my goodness, yes you must, you absolutely must get a photo, would be mean not to now you've got me all excited.

@Muttly hope you are feeling more optimistic today. Been thinking of you. xx You know where I am if you'd like to PM about anything.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> And my keyboard is covered in tea....
> 
> The f*ck is that?! :Jawdrop
> 
> There is someone in the nearest village who walks their Pygmy Goats around on a leash, I really must get a picture one day as she did the Santa Fun Run/Walk with them dressed up as mini reindeer last Christmas :Hilarious:Hilarious


We are getting a pair or trio at work in the near future- excited doesn't come close to how excited I am about the prospect of goaty fun!


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I love goats! Oh and Alpacas, they're super duper adorable


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

How did the weekend go @Muttly ?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> How did the weekend go @Muttly ?


It was actually quite a nice weekend, thank you. Child was being quite difficult, but tried to ignore and let OH deal with her. That didn't happen and she was sent to her room for 5 mins at one point. I tried to explain why she had been sent to her room (it was also a must because OH was on an important phonecall with Dad about dying partner and she would not be quiet).
No incidences with Muttly, because he was crashed out all weekend in the heat, poor love.
I did though, teach her how to play Frisbee with him 

No arguements with OH though, and it's times like these that makes me stay.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pappychi said:


> I love goats! Oh and Alpacas, they're super duper adorable


We've got a couple of boys at work, they are adorable & such characters, except when they spit!


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> I Googled (because I just can't help myself) & found this: http://www.theweek.co.uk/72105/baby-goat-born-with-a-human-face-in-malaysia
> 
> Looks like Son of Chewbacca


Looks like a chunky kid, whose large head got stuck during birth and swelled up. Had similar in a lamb, swelling went down in a few days.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> Looks like a chunky kid, whose large head got stuck during birth and swelled up. Had similar in a lamb, swelling went down in a few days.


Sadly I think the poor thing was stillborn here  I've not seen it in sheep (not that we had that many when I was growing up, just a little flock)


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Muttly said:


> It was actually quite a nice weekend, thank you. Child was being quite difficult, but tried to ignore and let OH deal with her. That didn't happen and she was sent to her room for 5 mins at one point. I tried to explain why she had been sent to her room (it was also a must because OH was on an important phonecall with Dad about dying partner and she would not be quiet).
> No incidences with Muttly, because he was crashed out all weekend in the heat, poor love.
> I did though, teach her how to play Frisbee with him
> 
> No arguements with OH though, and it's times like these that makes me stay.


Good to hear your weekend was ok.
I have a little mantra I apply to pretty much everything in life.
"If in doubt,chuck it out!"
As your weekend left things in a better light,perhaps "chuck out" your other thoughts for the time.
When you are certain, what you want to do - and you will know - then is the time to act. No point tormenting yourself in the meantime...... Just a thought. My little mantra has saved me a lot of torment.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> Sadly I think the poor thing was stillborn here  I've not seen it in sheep (not that we had that many when I was growing up, just a little flock)


We just have a little flock too. I think Moobli and her OH are big shepherds.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I read something this weekend about four quadrants that you can apply to most situations.

1. Voice - have I clearly explained what is wrong and what support I need, has it been resolved?
2. Loyal - if the situation doesn't change, does loyalty bind me and is that enough?
3. Negative - have I shut down and distanced myself. Will 1 or 2 help me to cope?
4. Exit - if 1-3 have been tried, and I am stuck on 3, then Exit is the only option.

Most people do 2, then 3 when the other party doesn't spot the shut down and head to 4. Talking is the hardest one to do but the most essential.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

@Muttly - how are you feeling ?

Havent been around the last few days but can see you had a better weekend. Have you managed to sit down with OH and talk ?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> @Muttly - how are you feeling ?
> 
> Havent been around the last few days but can see you had a better weekend. Have you managed to sit down with OH and talk ?


Not too bad thank you 
Not much talking about us really. I don't really know what I'm doing and feel very torn and mixed. Because when we have a nice day, a lot of it gets forgotten, then something sparks it off again. 
But I feel I'm just mooching along now, it's weird....


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Not too bad thank you
> Not much talking about us really. I don't really know what I'm doing and feel very torn and mixed. Because when we have a nice day, a lot of it gets forgotten, then something sparks it off again.
> But I feel I'm just mooching along now, it's weird....


Glad you're feeling ok 

Probably be the best time to talk now, about what you want for the future - while neither of you are angry or fed up with each other. I tend to find talking goes a lot better when it's not part of a blazing argument.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Glad you're feeling ok
> 
> Probably be the best time to talk now, about what you want for the future - while neither of you are angry or fed up with each other. I tend to find talking goes a lot better when it's not part of a blazing argument.


That's a very good point WM! It would be better when calm, yes


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Glad you feel slightly happier, just knowing you have options including leaving can give you some more control, even if you don't go you stay for the right reasons rather than habit. Having the choice to stay or go puts the ball back in your court.

Something you may not aware of, but might confuse your OH, when unhappy you refer to "his child" or even "Child", but when things going a bit smoother you call her "Lil 'un", which sounds affectionate. 

Maybe talks could be less what his child is doing wrong, more how you feel in certain situations: " I feel I have no authority or respect when she doesn't listen" or " it's nice when she plays gently with Muttly", so it's about her behaviour, not her presence in the family. And ditto for him: " It hurts when you say this because I feel...". I try to do this with my girls, so they get rules with security: "that was a stupid thing to do" rather than " you are a stupid girl", and " it makes so happy that you share" rather than " you have to share". 

Have they broken up yet? I have another 1 hour 35 mins before "school's out for summer, school's out for ever!", not that I'm keeping track!


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Yup she breaks up today! I took yesterday off for some quiet me time in the sun and pool. That was nice.

Those are some helpful pointers Catherine, thanks.


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