# Your Thoughts On This News Item?



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Saturday 10-05-2014.

I believe there's more to the enclosed story and tragedy than the old man is actually letting on.

I think he's seen the cubs, wandered over for a nosey, mother came ambling along, regarded him as a threat and then punished him for his trespasses.

But that's just my opinion.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/bear-cubs-killed-sweden-attack-elderly-man-130726897.html#Nu55QcT


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Poor mother bear and her babies.

Let's face it - the old guy was in HER home, and a threat to HER babies - how can we expect her to react.

And if he's such a "man of the woods" surely he himself wouldn't have wanted her killed.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

If they're going to cull bears as it states in the report, then it's only *sensible* to cull those that pose most risk. As hard as it may seem, culling populations to ensure they don't outgrow their habitat means destroying some healthy animals. The only real alternative is to completely remove the human population from these places, which isn't going to happen any time in the near future.


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

Obvious reaction...

Bear defends itself and cubs and gets killed for her troubles..

Man with his big stick wins again.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

On the ground, yet managed to wrestle, fight off and then out run a bear. And he's 80?
If true, Sweden ought to sign him up for the Olympics...

If a bear has you down on the ground you're finished, doesn't matter who you are. 

Some 'embroidery' I suspect.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

lostbear said:


> Poor mother bear and her babies.
> 
> Let's face it - the old guy was in HER home, and a threat to HER babies - how can we expect her to react.
> 
> And if he's such a "man of the woods" surely he himself wouldn't have wanted her killed.


As an 'old man of the woods' you might have expected he would have had familiar experience of the great wild outdoors and accepted the attached risks to such activities and written his unfortunate, yet ironicically very fortunate, rendezvous off to experience.

With regards to the report's closing statement;

*There have only been two fatalities caused by bear attacks over the last 30-40 years, according to the Swedish protection agency.*

The period actually covers a time scale starting from 1902 to the present day.



Sleeping_Lion said:


> The only real alternative is to completely remove the human population from these places.


Or at least educate them better to the ways of mother nature.

But then again, man will find any excuse he can to justify his seemingly incurable need to hunt.



dorrit said:


> Man with his big stick wins again.


Absolutely!



Knightofalbion said:


> On the ground, yet managed to wrestle, fight off and then out run a bear. And he's 80?
> If true, Sweden ought to sign him up for the Olympics...
> 
> If a bear has you down on the ground you're finished, doesn't matter who you are.
> ...


More than was required to complete the Bayeux Tapestry me thinks!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Seems to me, this is the real reason for the killings.*

" Hundreds of brown bears are killed in Sweden every year as part of an annual cull. Last year, approximately 300 bears were professionally hunted between August and October.
According to the Swedish Environmental Protection Agency, the hunt is for bear skin and meat, and also to keep the bear population at around 3,000. The authority said a large bear population increases the risk to reindeer and sheep, particularly in the northern part of Sweden."

*Nothing so cruel on this planet as the human.*


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Zaros said:


> Or at least educate them better to the ways of mother nature.
> 
> But then again, man will find any excuse he can to justify his seemingly incurable need to hunt.


I'd rather catch my own food than contribute towards mass production of animals, which is what he was doing, fishing. It's very sad but humans will always come into conflict with wild animals, they are best left as wild as possible, and as far away from most of us as possible.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

I think its bloody disgusting, if she had wanted to kill him she would have killed him. Theres definitely more to this story than meets the eye. Anyway he was in HER habitat its a risk people should accept, particularly so in our ever shrinking natural world. Many surfers attacked by sharks don't reap revenge on the animal, they accept when they enter the sharks environment they could be attacked, they don't blame the animal or wish for it to be killed!



.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'd rather catch my own food than contribute towards mass production of animals, which is what *he was *doing, *fishing*. It's very sad but humans will always come into conflict with wild animals, they are best left as wild as possible, and as far away from most of us as possible.


But that's just his regaled version of events.:001_unsure:

Not that it matters, but we've had two close encounters with Bears, one during an unsettled winter and the second in springtime.

In the first instance the dogs detected the animal, took charge and steered us away from any danger we might have found ourselves in if we had insisted to continue along the path we had chosen to travel.

The second time the Bear was approximately 200 yards ahead of us.

The animal raised its head scented the air and then turned and disappeared into the deeper forest.

Of course, we were a little worried to say the least. :wink:

They don't seek contact with us and much prefer to keep their distance.

It's only when folks get too close for their comfort when things get completely out of hand.

This guy is not being honest about what he did to instigate the attack.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> I think its bloody disgusting, if she had wanted to kill him she would have killed him. Theres definitely more to this story than meets the eye.
> *
> Anyway he was in HER habitat its a risk people should accept, particularly so in our ever shrinking natural world. *
> .


Each time we wander out into the forest it's a consideration we have to accommodate.

For example, Moose are with their young at present and accidentally stumbling upon the animal could easily have terrible consequences.

Mother, naturally thinking she is protecting a youngster from a threat is not something I ever wish to be confronted by.:nonod:

And if I ever am I have no one to blame but myself and my own carelessness.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> Each time we wander out into the forest it's a consideration we have to accommodate.
> 
> For example, Moose are with their young at present and accidentally stumbling upon the animal could easily have terrible consequences.
> 
> ...


Mothers, in even species you wouldn't expect, can be formidable when defending their young. I really hope you never encounter an angry moose and you stay safe.

What a privilege to have such awesome wildlife on your doorstep though, I would be in my element Its just a great shame more people don't have your appreciation and respect for wild animals Zaros, the world would be SO much nicer
#
,

,


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Saturday 10-05-2014.
> 
> I believe there's more to the enclosed story and tragedy than the old man is actually letting on.
> 
> ...


I should imagine its likely she was protecting her cubs too. I also think that if she had wanted too she could have done a lot worse then she did if she had real intent.

There are actually wildlife trips in Sweden to see the various native animals including the brown Bear. Interestingly enough they say they following:-

Where to see Bears in Sweden?

Bears can be found in the Northern 2/3 of Sweden. Which means from Dalarna, Gävleborg and all the way to the North.

But the North is not the best. Researchers have shown that Central Sweden with Dalarna, Gävleborg and Jämtland are the most densely populated areas with Bears in Sweden. Perhaps even in Europe!

*Bears are shy and very difficult to see in the wild.*

Do you really wanna see a Bear?

Go with our guides. Your chances will increase. A lot. By about 80 percent!

Yes, we are proud to say that during the last few years our Brown Bear watching tours have a surprising 80 percent success rate on seeing Bears in the wild.

Facts about Bears in Sweden

Scientific name: Ursus arctos
Height: 100  280 cm, up to 135 cm to the shoulder
Weight: 60  100 kg (female) 100  250 kg (male)
Lifespan: 20  30 years
Hibernation period: October/November  April/May
Mating period: May  June
Breeding period: January  February

The Swedish Brown Bear population has grown to a number of at about 3500 individuals in Sweden.* Bears are very shy and do not attack people, but should be respected and kept at a distance. Brown Bears are often seen from our hides in Hälsingland,* see Brown Bear photography. The Brown Bear is distributed across the central and northern parts of Sweden. Adult bears generally weigh between 100-300 kg for males and 60-200 for females.

Top 10 wild animals in Sweden and where to see them

So by that it doesn't sound like they are the biggest and dangerous threat or seem to go on the rampage regularly.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Something doesn't just seem to add up.

The headline says the bear and cubs were destroyed after 'Nearly Killing' the man and yet his injuries appear to have been fairly insignificant and he wasn't even shaken up?

Could the bear have been fishing and she has just tried to warn him away?

I don't understand at all the need for her and her babies to be hunted down and killed.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Mothers, in even species you wouldn't expect, can be formidable when defending their young. I really hope you never encounter an angry moose and you stay safe.
> 
> What a privilege to have such awesome wildlife on your doorstep though, I would be in my element Its just a great shame more people don't have your appreciation and respect for wild animals Zaros, the world would be SO much nicer


That's why we have Zara and Oscar.:001_smile:

They're our early warning systems. :wink:



Sled dog hotel said:


> I should imagine its likely she was protecting her cubs too. I also think that if she had wanted too she could have done a lot worse then she did if she had real intent.
> 
> There are actually wildlife trips in Sweden to see the various native animals including the brown Bear. Interestingly enough they say they following:-
> 
> ...


At the age of 80 SD I'm surprised his heart didn't give out. If it had then Mother and cubs could have shared an easy meal together. :001_smile:

However, according to reports from Radio Sweden, the man admitted to spotting the bear and a single cub by a Moose carcass. He then claimed the bear had seen him and as he tried to run away the Bear chased him down and bit him on the shoulder injuring his ear before she returned to her cub.

Ilta Sanomat reports the man had strayed between the mother, her cubs and a Moose carcass.

It appears the outcome of his clumsy navigations were inevitable.

It's such a tragedy and a shame that the animals in question were destroyed on impulse.



Sweety said:


> Something doesn't just seem to add up.
> 
> The headline says the bear and cubs were destroyed after 'Nearly Killing' the man and yet his injuries appear to have been fairly insignificant and he wasn't even shaken up?
> 
> ...


See submission above for more details. :001_smile:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Zaros said:


> But that's just his regaled version of events.:001_unsure:
> 
> Not that it matters, but we've had two close encounters with Bears, one during an unsettled winter and the second in springtime.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the sad fact is that no matter what the story, once something like that happens, the animals will be specifically targetted to try and ensure it doesn't happen again.

I've seen all sorts of wildlife up close and personally, including a black bear and a load of African animals, even been in a vehicle that was charged by a bull elephant. Even in fairly less populated countries, when animals come into conflict with man, the individual animals are sought out and culled. I remember when I lived in Botswana, there was a case where some of the armed forces were killed and partially eaten by a pride of lions, the whole pride was culled as a result. And a few years ago there were a few famous cases from the Kruger National Park in South Africa, where *delinquent* bull elephants had to be culled. These animals had originally been saved from slaughter, when family herds were culled due to the overpopulation of elephants in Kruger. At the time, they couldn't bring themselves to cull the youngest elephants, so hand reared them. Without their family to learn from, as some of them developed into adults, they started attacking other wildlife, including rhino, and in the end they had to be culled themselves.

It isn't nice to think of culling animals, but it sometimes has to happen, to ensure they don't outgrow their area, and don't come into conflict with humans.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It isn't nice to think of culling animals, but it sometimes has to happen, to ensure they don't outgrow their area, and don't come into conflict with humans.


You're right it isn't nice. It's horrific.

Us humans freely outgrow our areas and do so unchecked.

It would seem that world war is the only proven and reliable method of culling and controlling our numbers.

Human civilisation continually proves itself to be a cancer to wildlife and instead of addressing the cause of that problem we seem quite content to administer remedies for the symptoms.:sad:


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Unfortunately, the sad fact is that no matter what the story, once something like that happens, the animals will be specifically targetted to try and ensure it doesn't happen again.
> 
> I've seen all sorts of wildlife up close and personally, including a black bear and a load of African animals, even been in a vehicle that was charged by a bull elephant. Even in fairly less populated countries, when animals come into conflict with man, the individual animals are sought out and culled. I remember when I lived in Botswana, there was a case where some of the armed forces were killed and partially eaten by a pride of lions, the whole pride was culled as a result. And a few years ago there were a few famous cases from the Kruger National Park in South Africa, where *delinquent* bull elephants had to be culled. These animals had originally been saved from slaughter, when family herds were culled due to the overpopulation of elephants in Kruger. At the time, they couldn't bring themselves to cull the youngest elephants, so hand reared them. Without their family to learn from, as some of them developed into adults, they started attacking other wildlife, including rhino, and in the end they had to be culled themselves.
> 
> It isn't nice to think of culling animals, but it sometimes has to happen, to ensure they don't outgrow their area, and don't come into conflict with humans.


Just picking up on this bit. Unless there was another case, they didn't kill the delinquent elephants SL, they introduced them to older bulls, and the rhino killing stopped. But this a great example why elephants should never culled, not even for conservation reasons. Infact imo elephant and other highly intelligent species should be given 'human' rights. Killing elephant, cetaceans , great apes -is tantamount to murder imo. As the great George Adamson once said - the life 1 elephant is worth that of 10 men.

Our superior attitude to all other life forms is shameful.

(Sorry for taking your thread off track a bit Zaros.)

,


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Zaros said:


> You're right it isn't nice. It's horrific.
> 
> Us humans freely outgrow our areas and do so unchecked.
> 
> ...


I suppose that depends how you look at it. It's no secret that personally, I prefer to see animals managed more effectively, so that one population doesn't thrive at the expense of another, ie control of predators to try and prevent over predation of some species, particularly those who are struggling. Just recently, there was an incident in Scotland where a crow was filmed predating on osprey eggs, I'd prefer to see the crows controlled, to allow ospreys to further thrive, since their numbers are so low.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I suppose that depends how you look at it. It's no secret that personally, I prefer to see animals managed more effectively, so that one population doesn't thrive at the expense of another, ie control of predators to try and prevent over predation of some species, particularly those who are struggling. Just recently, there was an incident in Scotland where a crow was filmed predating on osprey eggs, I'd prefer to see the crows controlled, to allow ospreys to further thrive, since their numbers are so low.


Animals predating other animals is what nature is all about SL

Its mans 'management' of nature that is the problem.

.
.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Zaros said:


> That's why we have Zara and Oscar.:001_smile:
> 
> They're our early warning systems. :wink:
> 
> ...


Well if she had a carcass and he got in the middle between the carcass and the cubs, it sounds like its asking for trouble, what did he expect really. Especially as he claimed to be some kind of wild life expert and used to the woods.

I suppose its also going to be one of those things, that with so many varying reports you are also never going to completely get to the bottom if it.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I prefer to see animals managed more effectively, so that one population doesn't thrive at the expense of another ...
> 
> 
> > The human population is thriving at the expense of all others!
> > Population of the World growing in real time


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