# 17 week old westie hyper and snappy



## B17_Fan (Apr 30, 2008)

Our 17 week old westie gets very snappy. He races about the house at night and this is when he gets snappy. He is very stubborn. For example, tonight during his hyper evening spurt, he ran upstairs. I went up and tried to get him. He always snaps if you get hold of his collar or even move your hand over his head to get to it. He knows that he's going to get moved. 

Outside we have a conifer hedge. He gets under there and won't come out, no matter how much we call him. If we put our hand towards him to drag him out (This isn't meant to be cruel, but we have to get him out), he'll snap at us. 

Tonight I waved a bit of ham in front of him and he just sat there looking. 

We have had 2 cocker spaniels before getting our westie. They were so gentle and calm and loyal. Our westie is such a livewire and we're starting to wonder if we made the right decision in getting a terrier.

But I do love him and want to change his behaviour. If anyone has any tips at all or experience of this situation, I would love to hear from them.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

What are you feeding him?
He sounds a bit like how Meg was at 6 months old,apart from she didn't snap at us.
We stopped all the treats apart from cheese and chicken and swapped her from puppy food to adult,spent alot more time one to one training.We used distraction methods when she was doing something she wasn't supposed to be doing.

I was pulling my hair out with her she was so naughty,but the one to one paid off and a few months later she was alot better.

I would suggest not grabbing him by his collar as you may be hurting him and he maybe snapping as a result.When you move him make him sit and reward with praise and a treat - so it's positive reinforcement.
Same with the hedge show him a treat and call him praise and reward,after a while don't give a treat all the time,make it random.You could also use a training line when he's out side so he can't get under the hedge.

Terriers can be fiesty and very stubborn.
Hope this helps,remember patience and time,it won't happen overnight.


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## B17_Fan (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks.

He is being fed james wellbeloved dry puppy food. We give him lots of different treats such as pedigree chum training treats and other commerical treats.

I just hate the snapping so much. I feel like he doesn't trust us, because when we go to stroke his head he'll go to snap at us. The poor little thing must be confused.

what breed is meg?


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

She's an SBT,so still has the terrier in her.I would advise you to stop all the pedigree treats,we were giving these when we experienced her bad behaviour they can add to hyper dogs with all the colouring and additives in there.
We swapped to cheese and chicken it worked wonders.

He's still very much a young puppy and still learning,when he goes to snap tell him no biting in a firm voice or completely ignore him for a few minutes,then try again.He will soon learn if he behaves he gets praise and rewarded where as if he does something he shouldn't he does'nt get anything.
You need to be consistant with him too,including all the family.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

James Wellbeloved is a good food, but all puppy food has a fairly high protein content.

I have Luika on 80% dry, with 20% wet, which does help. He is currently off his food a bit, with the hot weather, but has calmed a lot since reducing the dry.


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## HandsOnPaws (Apr 18, 2008)

You've had soooooooo much advice on how to put this right, coming on another forum will NOT help your puppy, it's you who needs to listen!


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## azz0r (Jun 7, 2008)

You need to put your foot down!

Being snapped out? Not acceptable. Give him a smacked bum, loudly and authoritivetly say NO.

Atm your just letting it happen, so how's he to know its a bad thing?

We raised a Jack Russell and turned her into a lovely quiet yet respectfully cheeky dog, which isn't easy to-do, you have to supress the natural urges on this energetic dogs quite abit.


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## HandsOnPaws (Apr 18, 2008)

Smacked bum  yeah that will help this pup who already has issues with being touched due to this owner scruffing him and grabbing him. This pup is on his way to being seriously messed up and its nobodies fault but this owner. 

Sorry if everyone thinks im being harsh but i've just about enough of this person now


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## azz0r (Jun 7, 2008)

Smacking a dog, not hard, but slightly, with a loud authoritive no is far better than being soft about it.

Especially when the terrier instincts involved.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

azz0r said:


> Smacking a dog, not hard, but slightly, with a loud authoritive no is far better than being soft about it.
> 
> Especially when the terrier instincts involved.


So that's how we deal with snappy dogs then,make them hand shy?
Perhaps that's where I went wrong with Meg,I should have slapped her a bit.
Hands on Paws what other advice has this person had,Pm me if you like.


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## B17_Fan (Apr 30, 2008)

Handsonpaws - I don't know who you are but I am guessng you are joined to a forum that I recently left. Our Dogs behaviour is improving all the time since I stopped listening to all the conflicting advice I was given on the forum you know me from. 

To be honest, you don't even know anything about me or my dog. You have no idea what our lives are like.

To not sound rude, I would like to suggest if you have no further advice to give then please do not reply to my posts.

sorry to everyone else who has replied to me. But being hounded on the previous forum as to what I should and shouldn't be doing, made me leave.

Our westie is becoming a lovely little boy who is responding well to commands. The only issue he has is the snapping. 

Thanks Azzr by the way for the reply. Terriers really do think they are big and bold dogs. The do need a really firm hand ( I wouldn't smack though) as softly softly approaches do not work with such an energetic hyper dog!


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Your puppy is playing, and play biting, and that is good, normal puppy behaviour. It gives you the perfect opportunity to teach him bite inhibition.

Smacking will almost certainly only make him more excited. As no doubt will pinning him down or scruffing him, if it doesn't scare him.

try this:

The Bite Stops Here

If he is not doing what you want him to do (eg. get out from under the trees) it is for one of two reasons (the same reason all dogs, of all breeds don't do things, unless there is a medical problem). He either doesn't understand, or he is not motivated enough. So, you need to make sure you teach the command effectively, and find out what his motivators are. Maybe he just doesn't like chicken or ham as much as he likes being under the tree! Maybe he's not _that _ motivated by food at all. Maybe he likes squeeky balls more?

teach him the 'come' command using something really tasty and smelly(maybe salami) or a ball/toy that he isn't allowed any other time. (if you use a toy reward him with play when he comes) Then, when he is under the tree, use the command to get him out, and wait until he does come, don't try and grab him. If it takes you all day, just wait for him to come out, then say 'come' and give him the treat/play the game, or both, or take him for a walkj straight away. Making the time immediately after he comes to you out from under the tree very rewarding for him, by playing a really fun game will make it more worthwhile for him than just coming out, getting a treat and then being ignored.

You need to repeat something a lot of times to reinforce the behaviour.


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## B17_Fan (Apr 30, 2008)

Hi Jackson.

Our Westie isn't really motivated by squeaky toys. He understands "here" or "come". He's just really stubborn. Anyway, we have now blocked off his access to the hedges, so today we have had a really relaxing afternoon with him in the garden. He's been _so_ good!

I have read that article on bite inhibition. It was very interesting.

When he's hyper playing, we just let him get on with it. He grabbed hold of my foot earlier and I said "leave". He stopped immediately and sat down and looked at me. He is learning what "leave" means now.

We're going on a training course with him soon, so we'll be able to address his "puppy problems" then.

Thanks for the reply


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Classes should help then, good idea! 

He's really not stubborn though, it's a case of lack of motivation, I'm afraid!


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## azz0r (Jun 7, 2008)

In my experience, you make a dog hand shy by being to rough over and behind its head.

If you give them a smack with the arm going to there side to there bum with no headcontact smacks at all, in my experience they don't get headshy that way.

Ofcourse, nowerdays people are very PC about smacking children and dogs and I know alot of people won't agree with me. All ill say is I've got two very controlled loving jack russells who aren't scared of me, but respect me as the pack leader.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

azz0r said:


> In my experience, you make a dog hand shy by being to rough over and behind its head.
> 
> If you give them a smack with the arm going to there side to there bum with no headcontact smacks at all, in my experience they don't get headshy that way.
> 
> Ofcourse, nowerdays people are very PC about smacking children and dogs and I know alot of people won't agree with me. All ill say is I've got two very controlled loving jack russells who aren't scared of me, but respect me as the pack leader.


And why do we need to be smacking anything whether it be children or dogs?
I have two SBT's neither have ever been smacked ever,I had problems with Meg when she was six months old,I had experience with the breed but could not solve the problems of her naughty behaviour,so I asked for advice from other Stafford folk.The advice I had was fantastic and it wasn't quick fix slap your dog,it was sound constructive advice.A few months later she was a totally different dog.
I don't see the need to resort to slapping,hitting anything.
They see us as boss and do as they are told,because they have been trained correctly and fairly been praised and rewarded - positive reinforcement.

Maybe have a read of this Behavior: Understanding and Modifying


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

azz0r said:


> In my experience, you make a dog hand shy by being to rough over and behind its head.
> 
> If you give them a smack with the arm going to there side to there bum with no headcontact smacks at all, in my experience they don't get headshy that way.
> 
> Ofcourse, nowerdays people are very PC about smacking children and dogs and I know alot of people won't agree with me. All ill say is I've got two very controlled loving jack russells who aren't scared of me, but respect me as the pack leader.


I don't advocate smacking dogs whatsoever, it can do an awful lot of damage not only mentally, but physically too. Something I definately wouldn't recommend that anyone do, especially with some of the larger more dominant/highly strung breeds that may take offence to it. A friend of mine who keeps Dobermans used to advocate giving their dogs a clout now and again, imagine how horrified they were when the dog decided to bite back, can't blame the dog either one single bit.


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## HandsOnPaws (Apr 18, 2008)

This dog is handshy because the owners have been scruffing him and grabbing his neck when he misbehaves. He now sees ANY hand contact as a threat and bites. 

B_17fan, you weren't given conflicting advice you were given the same advice by lots of people. It didn't take long before people saw the real problem was how you were dealing with things. You didn't want to hear that and left. I hope you aren't waiting for someone to tell you the dog is at fault and that he is a bad dog, like that will make things better for you. I stand by what i say in that you are ruining this dog, i only hope you wise up and see the bigger picture


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## B17_Fan (Apr 30, 2008)

Handsonpaws - It really hurts when you say I am messing up my dog. He isn't messed up at all! I only ever scruffed him once, because I was told that is what the mother would do. 

He doesn't bite everytime we touch him. It's only when he is hyper. He loves being stroked and having his belly rubbed. 

When you say that the problem was the way I was dealing with things, I have only ever had spaniels who, according to the behaviourist we are starting a course with, are a totally different ball game to terriers. I admit I didn't know how to handle a terrier because they are such energetic hyper dogs who have very independent minds and can be stubborn. 

But I have learnt soooo much from day to day.

I am def not waiting for people to say that he's a bad dog. There is no such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners. If the owner isn't sure how to behave with their dog, then that dog will subsequently not know how to behave with its owner.

I don't need to "wise up" as you put it. Our westie is a gorgeous happy boy who loves life. 

If you really knew me, then you would never say such things.


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## B17_Fan (Apr 30, 2008)

One other thing, about the conflicting advice.....I was told to stand still if our westie goes to bite our feet, the he will get bored and go away.

But then I was told if he bites our feet when walking outside, then I should continue walking.

Without visiting the old forum, that is the only example i can think of.


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## mybaby (May 29, 2008)

Firstly,do not smack your puppy.Apart from it being illegal,it will do the opposite of what you want.Terrier pups are prone to dominance,and this is what your pup is displaying.The more he sees your dislike of this attitude,the more he will display it.When he is in this mode...ignore him.Once he sees you are not taking notice of him,he will reassess the situation.Once he has calmed down,reward him with a treat.He will begin to learn,that by being nice,is to his advantage.STOP OVER REWARDING,unless he has earned it.Do not give him the opportunity to snap.When this is likely to happen,remove yourself from the situation.Eventually,he will come to you for clarification of the rules..it is then,you must impose them.It takes time Good luck!


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## B17_Fan (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks for that!



> The more he sees your dislike of this attitude,the more he will display it.When he is in this mode...ignore him.Once he sees you are not taking notice of him,he will reassess


I didn't know that the more he see's the dislike then the more he will display it. Mind you, when we do get mad with him, he does tend to get more excited.

what sort of dog have you got mybaby?


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

B17_Fan said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> I didn't know that the more he see's the dislike then the more he will display it. Mind you, when we do get mad with him, he does tend to get more excited.
> 
> what sort of dog have you got mybaby?


He gets more excited because when you get mad he thinks you're playing. Nothing more!

Your puppy is behaving like pretty much any other normal puppy, (maybe you were just very lucky with your previous two) his behaviour is what should be expected and _totally normal_!

The more quickly you stop thinking that your dog is 'stubborn' or 'dominant' the more quicly you'll get results.

The word dominance seems to come up often where dogs are concerned. Dogs are _never_ dominant over humans, that is a proven fact.

Jean Donaldson put's it perfectly when she says "not to say that dogs aren't a species whose social life appears to lend itself to beloved heirachy constructs. But they also see well at night, and no-one is proposing retinal surgery to address their non-compliance or biting behaviour'.

Dogs are in in for themsleves. If they aren't doing something you want them to, (assuming they do understand) they are not motivated enough.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

mybaby said:


> Firstly,do not smack your puppy.Apart from it being illegal,it will do the opposite of what you want.Terrier pups are prone to dominance,and this is what your pup is displaying.The more he sees your dislike of this attitude,the more he will display it.When he is in this mode...ignore him.Once he sees you are not taking notice of him,he will reassess the situation.Once he has calmed down,reward him with a treat.He will begin to learn,that by being nice,is to his advantage.STOP OVER REWARDING,unless he has earned it.Do not give him the opportunity to snap.When this is likely to happen,remove yourself from the situation.Eventually,he will come to you for clarification of the rules..it is then,you must impose them.It takes time Good luck!


What makes you think this behaviour is dominance?
Very few dogs are dominant,terriers been no different and puppies certainly are not dominant this puppy is doing what puppies do.
Good advice has already been given on the previous pages.
How do dogs reassess anything because they don't and can't think like humans.
For example a dog soils on the kitchen floor while the owners is out the dog is shouted at on the owners return,the dog assiociates his owners return with displeasure,not because of the mess he's made but because he's been shouted at and does not understand why.This is why it's important to catch them in the act and redirect them.
We have always worked on ignore the bad behaviour or use distraction tactics and praise and reward good behaviour.


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## Doglistener (Jun 13, 2008)

I am a professional behaviourst and expert gundog trainer with many years of first class experience & a package of qualifications to to back me up, I am here in an advisory capacity.

Yes I too used clickers but I also carried out very many years of research on the auditaury sense and a vast variety of stimulants. I spent several years research on broadkast frequencies to find out which was the best fequency for dogs to respond in a training situation.

Clikers are now out of date, I have invented, with much painstaking research and dedication, the jingler, it can be used for sits, heels, downs, toilet training and long range recalls to mention but a few effective behavioural modifications, please feel free to see my demonstartion of my invention on youtube, my invention is acclaimed the world over.

Presenting to you 'The Jingler'
YouTube - Jingler - TheTin Miracle

Japan
The Miracle Tin Jingler - Truveo ãããªãµã¼ã

AOL
Video Search - jingler - AOL Video

Albania
Jingler - TheTin Miracle - Video Shqip Falas | Video Klipe | Muzik Shqip

Science & Technology
 videos tagged - Science and Technology

IndianaJones
Indiana Jones Videos

Stan


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## B17_Fan (Apr 30, 2008)

We've been doing clicker training and our westie is VERY responsive to it. I enjoy training him this way. 

The course we're about to go on is based on clicker training. 

I'll take a look at the videos you mention Doglistener.


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## mybaby (May 29, 2008)

Hi,I will answer your questian first.I have 3 dogs (one pending)
A v.large B/Collie x GS A small lurcher(S/Terrier x whippet)(ex rabbiter) and a Pitt x Staffi,none of whom conform to the morals of todays expectations,because I have allowed them the liberty to live by their own pack rules.In doing so,they have become a unit of srength and stability,taking exanple from my "Matriach" who is their Alpha,and any displeasure is settled by her...NOT BY ME.Pups learn by example,and over 70% are taken from their mothers ,much too young.They do not have the time to learn,as nature intended,and so the problem...housetraining by us,who know very little about it.I have never had to indulge in shouting,smacking,or restraining a pup because of disobedience,and it is a nasty word.No pup is disobedient...only if we do not reach out and try to understand them,as they do to us.
I have taught them just 2 things a) Stop at the road(incase we ever get seperated)b) to respect all form of wildlife
I would have them no other way.
On a lighter note:My pack has included our 10yr old calico cat into their hiearchy,and have become her protector.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

mybaby said:


> Hi,I will answer your questian first.I have 3 dogs (one pending)
> A v.large B/Collie x GS A small lurcher(S/Terrier x whippet)(ex rabbiter) and a Pitt x Staffi,none of whom conform to the morals of todays expectations,because I have allowed them the liberty to live by their own pack rules.


I'll be honest, I haven't got a clue what you're talking about. What do you mean they don't conform to the morals of todays expectations?


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> I'll be honest, I haven't got a clue what you're talking about. What do you mean they don't conform to the morals of todays expectations?


Snap,plus dog dominance is totally different to dog - human dominance.


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