# Ex stud cats



## puddyandcolby (Mar 7, 2016)

Question to cat breeders. Are you keeping cats, which you are not breeding from anymore. Or you are looking for new forever homes for them. Thank you for replies xxx


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I would dearly love to keep all my breeding cats, but practically I won't be able to. Girls usually retire between 4-6 years, usually meaning you'd have three generations of one line together if you didn't rehome. If you've got your own boy, that's usually 4 girls, so numbers increase very quickly and there's only so much space a home has.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Personally I rehome but I know many breeders who don't. It is a very personal choice and can be contentious.
Are you looking to give a home to a retired stud or queen or are you considering what is right to do with one that you own? Or is it just a general question?


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## puddyandcolby (Mar 7, 2016)

I have a friend whos a very good breeder and shes keeping her cats. I know another breeder whos excellent but shes rehoming her ex stud cats. I was just thinking it must be really sad for breeders to rehome their cats. Personally i think i would have to keep them !!! Well.... Im getting an ex stud bsh. Hes almost 2 and hes spayed in nov. I cant wait to take him home !!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

puddyandcolby said:


> I have a friend whos a very good breeder and shes keeping her cats. I know another breeder whos excellent but shes rehoming her ex stud cats. I was just thinking it must be really sad for breeders to rehome their cats. Personally i think i would have to keep them !!! Well.... Im getting an ex stud bsh. Hes almost 2 and hes spayed in nov. I cant wait to take him home !!


Rehoming ex stud cats is often the best option since those who have lived outside may find it very difficult to integrate with other cats. My boys were all inside and neutered young so they did not have a problem when they were neutered.

I think keeping neutered girls is a different matter. Some breeders love their cats more than breeding whereas others consider their breeding the priority.


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## puddyandcolby (Mar 7, 2016)

I have 3 bsh all spayed at 5 months of age. But breeder thinks it should be ok to socialize new cat with them hes a bit timid but very loving and gentle. Hes only young so im hoping they will get on well.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Hope your boy settles in well.

I do rehome to keep numbers manageable, I don’t know any breeders who don’t.


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## puddyandcolby (Mar 7, 2016)

Ty x would u be able to tell me if theres anything different about ex stud cats. Do they usually settle in well. Any advice would b much appreciated xxx


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2018)

puddyandcolby said:


> I was just thinking it must be really sad for breeders to rehome their cats.


It's even sadder for the cats.

This is supposed to be PET forums. Doesn't sound much like pets. More like business..


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

GPTC said:


> It's even sadder for the cats.
> 
> This is supposed to be PET forums. Doesn't sound much like pets. More like business..


Breeding cats are, first and foremost, pets. Some are rehomed because they prefer a quieter environment than a busy multicat home. Others because they're getting on and don't need to be wound up by kittens.

It's a shame that some have such a closed view on breeding programmes they aren't involved in. I wouldn't dream of muscling in on someone's parenting, same sort of thing really.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

GPTC said:


> It's even sadder for the cats.
> 
> This is supposed to be PET forums. Doesn't sound much like pets. More like business..


Hi, I understand what you say, but I think for me it depends on what is best for the cat themselves.

If breeders kept all their retired queens and studs they would in time have a large number of cats in their household, making for a busy household, which might not be in the best interests of the cats themselves. A retired breeding cat, still only 4 or 5 years old, being re-homed to a quieter home with just a couple of other cat companions, or maybe as an only cat, might well give the cat a better quality of life.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2018)

Rufus15 said:


> Breeding cats are, first and foremost, pets. Some are rehomed because they prefer a quieter environment than a busy multicat home. Others because they're getting on and don't need to be wound up by kittens..


Sorry. That's pure tosh.

Breeding cats are.... money. The last thing they are is pets. A pet is for life.


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## puddyandcolby (Mar 7, 2016)

Nah breeders hardly make money on it. Its not enough to have a cat to breed it. It takes much more to have a registered cattery


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Rufus15 said:


> *Breeding cats are, first and foremost, pets.*


This is why it is so sad when they lose their homes. If they were kept outside, a change would be an improvement.



Rufus15 said:


> Some are rehomed because they prefer a quieter environment than a *busy multicat home*. *Others because they're getting on and don't need to be wound up by kittens. *


Cats who do not like busy multicat homes surely are better not kept for breeding in the first place only to be rehomed when they have finished being useful if they really are not happy in that situation.

It is always possible to stop breeding to give the girls you owe so much the importance they deserve.



Rufus15 said:


> It's a shame that some have such a closed view on breeding programmes they aren't involved in. I wouldn't dream of muscling in on someone's parenting, same sort of thing really.


I think that is a most unfortunate comparison because most people would have an opinion on parents who farmed out their children to somebody else just so they could have some more.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

GPTC said:


> Breeding cats are.... money.


I can assure you there is no money to be made in responsible pedigree cat breeding. Quite the reverse. Do not attempt it unless you have plenty of funds to spare.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

GPTC said:


> Sorry. That's pure tosh.
> 
> Breeding cats are.... money. The last thing they are is pets. A pet is for life.


You obviously haven't met any good breeders, then. The breeders I know (which is quite a lot these days), the cats live the life of Riley, and making any profit on a litter is a rarity, if it ever happens at all! Breeding cats properly is expensive.

As to rehoming, one of my friends had a queen who, once retired, would not tolerate any other entire cat in the house. She's now rehomed with some of her kittens and very, very happy. Had she stayed where she was it would have meant either constant fights, or she would have had to live in isolation with limited interaction for the rest of her life.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2018)

chillminx said:


> A retired breeding cat, still only 4 or 5 years old, being re-homed to a quieter home with just a couple of other cat companions, or maybe as an only cat, might well give the cat a better quality of life.


It certainly couldn't be worse!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

GPTC said:


> It certainly couldn't be worse!


Oh, give over - not all cat breeders are BYBs. The breeding cats I know live like kings and queens - IN the home, to the point of sleeping in the bed with the family if they choose. I've spent more than one night when staying over with breeding friends being mobbed for snuggles. 

Yes, there are bad breeders who treat their cats like commodities. That is why it is important to do your research if you want to buy a pedigree cat, make sure your breeder is reputable, and be prepared to wait as long as necessary.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2018)

Jesthar said:


> ...... and making any profit on a litter is a rarity, if it ever happens at all! Breeding cats properly is expensive.


Please do me a favour....

1st kitten... £500
2nd kitten £1000
3rd kitten £1500
4th Kitten £2000
5th Kitten £2500

.................... and that's being conservative.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

GPTC said:


> Please do me a favour....
> 
> 1st kitten... £500
> 2nd kitten £1000
> ...


Stud fees
Health tests
Breed specific tests
Vet checks
Vaccinations
Early neutering/spaying
Kitten pens
Litter
Food (8 - 13 week old kittens are eating machines, this is why bad breeders sell kittens at 8 weeks old so they don't literally eat the profit)
Advertising
Registration fees

........... and that's assuming no emergencies.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

As a mod not a breeder I am asking that this thread is not turned into an argument regarding the money in breeding.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2018)

Jesthar said:


> Stud fees
> Health tests
> Breed specific tests
> Vet checks
> ...


Oh my heart bleeds for your aching wallet. I have those costs and more for the deserving moggies in my rescue. And they were not bred for profit.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2018)

lymorelynn said:


> As a mod not a breeder I am asking that this thread is not turned into an argument regarding the money in breeding.


Understood. I will decease.


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## puddyandcolby (Mar 7, 2016)

Oh come on. Thats just silly. Theres nthg wrong with pedigree cats. I have 3 almost 4 and love them . that wasnt a post about it ! I just wanted to know what breeders do, what they think


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2018)

puddyandcolby said:


> Oh come on. Thats just silly. Theres nthg wrong with pedigree cats. I have 3 almost 4 and love them . that wasnt a post about it ! I just wanted to know what breeders do, what they think


I love them too. All of them. And i know Jesthar loves them too.

Breeding is an emotional subject.
*

*


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

GPTC said:


> Oh my heart bleeds for your aching wallet. I have those costs and more for the deserving moggies in my rescue. And they were not bred for profit.


You read me wrong. I am no breeder, and I have two moggies - one rehome, one rescue. I also support a small private cat rescue that takes in many cats the bigger rescues would reject or PTS - right now I have a shawl I crocheted being raffled off by them in memoriam of a rescue kitten who didn't make it. I dislike BYBs intensely.

I just also have the priviledge of also knowing many good and ethical breeders who are in it for the love of their breed and do it right - and at a loss. It would be most unfair to lump those in with profiteer breeders. That's all.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

GPTC said:


> Understood. I will *decease*.


Dear me, I know @lymorelynn is a fearsome adversary but there is no need for that unless you mean desist!


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Dear me, I know @lymorelynn is a fearsome adversary but there is no need for that unless you mean desist!


Yeah... it just didn't sound right, did it?

Some googling confirmed that!!

Please consider me desist'ed!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

puddyandcolby said:


> Ty x would u be able to tell me if theres anything different about ex stud cats. Do they usually settle in well. Any advice would b much appreciated xxx


Would very much depend on the cat, hopefully the breeder will be there to guide you and wouldn't be placing him with you if not suitable.

My boys live inside and are never alone, having kittens & other cats for company so settle in well to retirement with a kitten for company.

Introducing adults tends to be more difficult than adults to kitten, BSH tend to be easy going so you may find it all goes smoothly.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

GPTC said:


> Sorry. That's pure tosh.
> 
> Breeding cats are.... money. The last thing they are is pets. A pet is for life.


I recently went through my breeding accounts. Without vet bills I have made about £30 per kitten, which means each kitten has cost me.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

@GPTC I would strongly, strongly advise you contact a breeder through one of the pedigree cat clubs, one of the committee members I imagine would help, and discuss with them what is actually involved in ethical breeding, rather than tarring all breeders with the same byb brush.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

@GPTC has desisted in his remarks about the money earned in pedigree breeding. I would be obliged if others did the same please.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

I tend to feel ‘rehoming’ ie getting rid of breeding cats after they are no longer useful is akin to people who get rid of cats because they are having a baby, or for whatever reason do not want them anymore. It is about convenience not what is best for the cat. The reasons given are often excuses and not necessary. 

You can say ‘ethical breeding’ but in my view that is not ethical.
If you look at it as a business and the cats are stock then yes it makes sense but to say oh these are pets and then pass them on when their time of breeding is up is not in my view ethical.

Breeders presenting one view that these are loved pets but then doing the opposite moving them on when they are not needed. If the average person did this they would be lambasted as a bad pet owners.
Pets are supposed to be for life.

Despite the spin put on it is all down to moving stock to make way for fresher stock. If we look at it as similar to a cattle farm then it makes sense, but that is not the image often presented to the public. 

I am not anti breeding and some breeds I quite like and would not mind having. Though, I think if it is a lemon call it a lemon if it is a pear call it a pear. To me getting rid of pets is different than getting rid of livestock bred for sale or breeding stock that one can no longer use. You are either a breeder who puts breeding first or a pet owner who breeds and then stops when reaching over capacity with cats who are pets foremost.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Summercat said:


> I tend to feel 'rehoming' ie getting rid of breeding cats after they are no longer useful is akin to people who get rid of cats because they are having a baby, or for whatever reason do not want them anymore. It is about convenience not what is best for the cat. The reasons given are often excuses and not necessary.
> 
> You can say 'ethical breeding' but in my view that is not ethical.
> If you look at it as a business and the cats are stock then yes it makes sense but to say oh these are pets and then pass them on when their time of breeding is up is not in my view ethical.
> ...


You *are* anti breeding. Breeding demands realism about what is best for a cat, and if being rehomed is best that is what should be done. I have had to rehome two cats because they were being bullied. I very much wish I still have my first girl as she was a great mother but since her daughter started attacking her it was clearly not in her best interests to stay with me. I could have rehomed the daughter instead, but one or the other had to have a new home.

In my view there are far too many breeders who are 'mad cat people' and have far too many cats because they won't rehome whatever the circumstances.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I think @Summercat meant she was not anti all *pedigree cat* *breeds*. Her post was referring to certain breeding practices. Frankly I would not have wanted to breed on from a girl who was very aggressive. Surely temperament must be the priority in choice of cats for breeding since most of the offspring are destined to be pets. Like many other breeders I learned that the hard way although I was fortunate that I only had to breed out timidity. I used a certain very popular stud when I was starting out without realising the kittens would have problems. It never occurred to me to choose one of the nervous ones for breeding.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@OrientalSlave

Either they are stock or they are your pets. If they are stock be upfront and don't pretend these are pets. Rehoming is getting rid of, just phrased in a nicer way such as preowned cars for used cars.

I think one needs to know where to stop. I certainly would not recommend if you are breeding cats, keeping a too large amount in your home. I would recommend stopping when you have reached a comfortable limit for yourself and the cats.

There is no need to keep on breeding once your pets are at a level more pets would likely be too many.

Please don't tell me what my views are. I know what they are. I am not anti breeding of cats but some types of breeding where the breed stock is seen as disposable I do disagree with. In particular when it is presented as ethical and homey.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

As I said in an earlier post, this is a contentious issue even between breeders. Just remember to keep disagreements civil please.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Would you prefer then that a home is overrun by cats and they don't get the space and attention they require?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Rufus15 said:


> Would you prefer then that a home is overrun by cats and they don't get the space and attention they require?


Are you suggesting there are only two options?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I know this is Cat Forum ,but I have 2 retired breeding bitches ,both had just 2 litters with their second litters involving C Sections. The breeder decided that after a section they shouldn't be bred again although the younger one produced a girl who has done exceptionally well in the show ring including Crufts. 
She offered me Reena as a gift because she felt she would be happier in a smaller dog community and keeps in close contact, always happy to advise and support. She has kept several older dogs including Reena's father so it's not a case of making room for the pups. 
I firmly believe many breeders, of cats and dogs, have the same philosophy regarding rehoming , some pets are happier in smaller groups. Reena has certainly thrived on not having to compete so much for attention.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Are you suggesting there are only two options?


I'm saying that it isn't as black and white as you and @Summercat are making it out to be.

There are many, many reasons why a breeder rehomes, it's not as simple as 'an aggressive girl' or 'stock'. You know as well as I do that cats personalities can and do change after neutering, and what worked for them as entires may not work for them as neuters.

You also know as well as I do how easy it is to double your cat family in a small amount of time, when you're keeping lines and neutering parents. Some people are wonderfully blessed with large houses and large gardens for runs, so have lots of space to keep neuters and continue their lines. Not everyone is so fortunate, and if we excluded breeding to everyone except those fortunate few, it would become even more elitist and closed off than it is now.

Breeding is rapidly changing, and sadly attitudes are not changing at the same speed. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion about rehoming, and of course it's entirely your choice whether you do or don't rehome, however, do not demonise other breeders because you disagree with one aspect, when you know nothing of their cats, home situation or breeding programme.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@Rufus15 
I doubt we will change each others minds on this issue.

I feel the cats should come first when planning your breeding program. If expanding the program requires moving a cat permanently from its home where it was kept as a pet I would not expand or expand at that time.

I am not so sure expansion needs to be done at a pace that requires a routine turnover of cats. One can stop when one wants. As said, it is a question of what comes first your breeding or the cats. If you feel differently so be it.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Rufus15 said:


> There are many, many reasons why a breeder rehomes, it's not as simple as 'an aggressive girl' or 'stock'. *You know as well as I do* that cats personalities can and do change after neutering, and what worked for them as entires may not work for them as neuters.
> *You also know as well as I do* how easy it is to double your cat family in a small amount of time, when you're keeping lines and neutering parents. Some people are wonderfully blessed with large houses and large gardens for runs, so have lots of space to keep neuters and continue their lines. Not everyone is so fortunate, and if we excluded breeding to everyone except those fortunate few, it would become even more elitist and closed off than it is now.


Can I gently suggest that I may know quite a lot of things much better than you do? This is not just because of my great age but also because I have a great deal of experience and years of observation and you are not even a novice breeder yet. I have to say that I would not have expressed my views quite so forcefully as you do when I acquired my first queen 30 years ago.

I must have been very fortunate because I have not known cats' personalities change much when they are neutered. Neither do I think it is 'easy' to double your family and certainly it should never be done without due consideration but I wonder what it will be like if/when you produce a kitten that cannot be homed for some reason. Do you keep or put to sleep even if they have the prospect of good quality of life?

I do agree that breeding is changing but please do not be misled into thinking all change is for the better.

You are right I am entitled to my own opinion but I deny I demonise anybody. I just wish breeders would be more honest about their motives. How many of these breeders request permanent homes for their kittens? Can they not see the hypocrisy in that?

What happens when somebody gets in touch to say they don't want the kittens they had from you because they have changed the colour scheme in their house and the cats now clash? Do you think they are justified in rejecting the cats in that situation? Believe me these things happen. Is their reason less defensible?

'Breeding programmes' seem to have magical significance to some people even though they do not appear to be breeding programmes to me, rather just breeding.

I had a breeding programme to promote the cinnamon and fawn colours in Oriental and Siamese. I think I made my contribution to that effort which involved many breeders. My pedigrees all go back to my foundation queen but there were plenty of times when I had a break in breeding simply because I could not keep any more cats.

It is all a question of priorities. Do the cats come first or the breeding? I am not ashamed to admit the former so why should those who think the latter not admit their preference too?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rufus15 said:


> <snip>
> if we excluded breeding to everyone except those fortunate few, it would become even more elitist and closed off than it is now.
> <snip>


Owning a pet is a luxury, not an essential, being in a situation to breed even more so since breeding doesn't usually make money unless one is taking a BYB approach.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm sorry, but stating that rehoming in any situation after a cat has been used for breeding is closed minded. The picture is not black an dwhite here. It's grey and all shades in between. I swore when I restarted that I would never rehome any of my cats, that I'd stop when my numbers were sufficiently high. Cut to a few years ago when, as @Jesthar mentioned previously, I had a queen who had a bit of a breakdown when her kittens left (a bit is an understatement actually). She had had a litter of premmy babies who all died, and she grieved constantly until I put her into kitten again. This I did not want to do, and as good friends will testify, the loss of that litter almost lead me to giving up entirely, but I felt that for her sake, I needed to give her the chance to put her demons behind her and raise another litter. When she was pregnant, my instincts eere proved right. She bloomed! She ate again herself instead of having to be coaxed and hand fed and cajoled. She went back to mixing with the household, playing, running around just as the rest of my lunatics do, instead of languishing in her bed and doing little except sleep. When her kittens were born, she was the best mum I could ever have imagined. All babies were fat little sausages that needed hardly any intervention from me. She taught them to be gentle, loved interactions with any humans involving her babies, and was a joy to be around. She could count to 3, so as long as there were 3 in the box with her when I was weighing, health checking etc, she was happy. So she didn't notice when kitten umber 1 of 6 left, or kittens 2 and 3. When the last 2 went though (I was keeping a girl back for breeding from her lines), she had a complete, what I can only describe as nervous breakdown! She tried to kill her only remaining kitten, and I do mean that, not a telling off but a full on attempt at killing. I separated her from her baby who mixed happily with the rest of the household. Gabby went back into mourning, refusing all food, lashing out at any cat who came near her to the point where she had to be segregated in my bedroom. I chose my bedroom as, being someone who has to work hours to earn a living, I felt that's where she would have the most itme with me as I could cuddle her all night. Everyone suffered as a result. The other cats in the house only saw me for a few hours each evening as they were no longer allowed in the bedroom with me at night, as Gabby would try to kill them. And all the time I was sitting with them, watching TV or eating my dinner, I could hear the pathetic scratching and mewing of her at the door, as she wanted a fuss. But she couldn't come out, not with 1 single cat... And I tried her with everyone, in every combination I could think of, even with my most gentle cats who have impeccable manners. Nothing worked. Should I have stopped breeding then and lived in this status quo forever? Would Gabby have been best served by living in my bedroom for the next 15 or so years, with no companionship except me in the venings? Would my other cats have had the attention they needed? Or could I rehome her to the family who had taken on 4 of her kittens, and had begged me for mum if I ever decided to rehome her (at the time, I told them that wasn't an option, as I never rehomed my girls). You tell me, what would you have done in that situation?

Call me a profettering, BYB who looks at my cats as tock all you like, but I don't. I look at them as living beings with feelings which need to be respected. Gabby went to the home with her kittens on a trial basis, with the understanding that she came straight back to me if it didn't work. It broke my heart to do it, still does, and I'm writing this post with tears dripping, even these almost 3 years on. But Gabby? She doesn't even remember me. She has changed beyond all recognission. You see, she can count to 3, and they have 4 of her babies. She continues to mother them even though they are all adults. She washes their faces, breaks up squabbles, and generally treats them as though they are still 6 weeks old. She sleeps in the beds of new owners (she has 3 to choose from). She has people at home all day to idolise her, and they are crazy cat people, so she is spoiled rotten. They buy her exotic delicacies to try just for a treat,and put up with her "switch flicks in head" moments, when she shoots back to that angry, aggressive cat. Why? Because she comes straight back and apologises. Her family life is much, much more than I could ever have given her in my wildest dreams, and although I was heartbroken to let her go, it was the right decision in my eyes. I could have kept her on, gave her more kittens so she forgot about the scond loss, but at what cost to the cat? Cats always come first in my house, and sometimes that means rehoming them.

So go on. Tell me I'm a no good, terrible breeder who doesn't care about her cats. Tell me that my sometimes nightly tears when I think about her are faked and I'm in it for the money (I didn't even ask for a rehoming fee for her, so I guess I missed out there too, eh?) This subject makes me so so angry, as it's not black and white at all, and if a good breeder rehomes, that is one of the hardest things they will ever have to do. Should we start slating guide dog and assistance dog owners for rehoming their dogs after their working life is finished too? After they're no longer useful? We retire them you know, to families who will be there all day for them, love them to bits, and see them into their twilight years with more lavish luxury than we ever could, because we still have to go out to work with the new dog. Imagine the sadness the old dog would feel at not only bein g left beiind, but at seeing the newcomer donning the harness and equipment it used to wear. What's best for the animal is what should be a primary concern, so all those sanctimonious people on high horses who never ever rehome for any reason can just get down pretty please. Remember, a paint palet does not just come in black and white, and that's for a very good reason.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

@carly87 I assume you are referring to me in your last paragraph since I am apparently the only breeder here who did not rehome queens. Perhaps you should have read my posts before launching your attack. I have never said no girl should ever be rehomed if circumstances change. My concern is simply for all those girls who are always going to be outed from the moment they enter a breeder's home simply because that breeder loves breeding more than cats. I would not mind so much if they actually admitted it upfront rather than a pretence of putting the cats first.

I take great exception to being called sanctimonious since all religion is a closed book to me and piety and holiness just do not figure in my vocabulary.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

You are not the only one who has these opinions as I'm sure you'll agree, so no, my attack was not a personal one. Therefore I will leave sanctimonious in there. I do still think that the people who wear it as a badge of honour that they haav enver rehomed a single cat sometimes are as much at fault as those who rehome everything, and I'm aware fault is not the right word here, but have just taken my morphine, so vocab fails me at the minute. Having a house ofer run with cats is no better than rehoming every single one (again I know that wasn't the case in your situation, so no need to take it personally). What's good for the goose and all that. nobody jumps on people who kepe, so nobody should be jumped on for openly saying they rill rehome everything, as some here were. What's good for the goose and all that, and the cats are no less well treated because of it. Would those who don't like to see rehoming like to see the breed die out instead? Food for thought there, as it's often these "rehoming" breeders that ensure there are plenty of kittens for pet owners to have, and they're not all bad BYBs either...


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

QOTN said:


> @carly87 I assume you are referring to me in your last paragraph since I am apparently the only breeder here who did not rehome queens. Perhaps you should have read my posts before launching your attack. I have never said no girl should ever be rehomed if circumstances change. My concern is simply for all those girls who are always going to be outed from the moment they enter a breeder's home simply because that breeder loves breeding more than cats. I would not mind so much if they actually admitted it upfront rather than a pretence of putting the cats first.
> 
> I take great exception to being called sanctimonious since all religion is a closed book to me and piety and holiness just do not figure in my vocabulary.


You assume incorrectly. I assure you that if @carly87 were referring to someone specifically, she wouldn't hold back from saying! 

I do not read an 'attack'. I read an emotional post by someone forced to part with a beloved queen for the queen's own good, a decision which still causes heartache despite the fact the cat in question is blissfully happy, trying to explain to anyone interested why the very polarised viewpoint (held by anyone, not just breeders or people on this forum) of 'breeder who keeps all retired cats = good, breeder who rehomes = bad' is too simplistic. A viewpoint she herself had to change from after months of trying everything she could think of to NOT rehome a particular cat.

To put such a personal account down for everyone to see is not easy, and perhaps it would be better considered to have a dialogue about the very valid points raised rather than condemn it for the use of one word which, according to most leading dictionaries, hasn't had a specifically religious context for a long time, nor was aimed at anyone in particular.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Re-reading the last post, I find it very interesting actually that you took this personally, as you were not the only one on this thread to pose quite rigid opinions in the rehoming stakes. I do hope I haven't touched a nerve, and that's genuine. I never once mentioned that my remarks were limited to breeders, you see, and am still waiting for the likes of the poster arguing with @Jesthar to tell me what they would have done in my situation, given it's so black and white for them.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks @Jesthar, far more succinctly put than my drug-laiden brain will let me at the moment. It certainly wasn't a personal attack, and if it was, it would have outted the person as I'm not afraid to do that and don't hide behind ifs and maybes. Interesting it was taken that way though. LEt's forget about the real content of the post and focus on one word instead...


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I have to say I'm with you 1million% on this @carly87


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Thank you so much for informing me there are new meanings of the word 'sanctimonious.' Having googled I now see that the accusation is even more insulting than I first thought.

*synonyms: self-righteous, holier-than-thou, churchy, pious, pietistic, moralizing, unctuous, smug, superior, priggish, mealy-mouthed, hypocritical, insincere, for form's sake, to keep up appearances;*

I repeat I was the only breeder (now ex of course,) who has posted on this thread and breeding cats were the theme of this thread..



carly87 said:


> So go on. Tell me I'm a no good, terrible breeder who doesn't care about her cats.


I would not dream of it. I always try to keep away from any such criticism. I suggest *you* are the one being unnecessarily personal about all of this.

I will only add one more comment in response to the question about continuation of breeds. A breed is a group of individuals. It has no 'life' of its own so yes, I do think the cats that make up the breed are more important than the breed itself. If there were no more orientals in this world, I cannot imagine any life for me but that is irrelevant when discussing principles.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Can we leave the personal arguments out of this please.
The OP was looking at taking on a retired stud - they did not need to know the details of the lives of those who do and those who don't rehome.


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