# weight gain please help



## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

they have not gained any weight and the smaller of the two latches on then doesn't really suckle
it was 69g at birth and is now 60g the second was 85g and is now 79g
should i start to top them up am worried about the first it doesn't seem as lively

mum is the same, wont leave me although she didnt call as much during the night


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Can you squeeze any milk from her teats? She may not have any, or an insufficient supply. That could be why she is so restless. If you want the kittens to live then you will have to start feeding them.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Just thinking, what about your breeding mentor, does she have or know of anyone who has a Mum who can take on two extra?


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## bluechip (Dec 26, 2008)

hi you need to think about the kitty here.

has breeder got a queen who has just had kittens or have had kittens in the last 2 months if so get kittens to her if not you will have to take over and help as you will find thee kittys will not make it.

it could be that mum is not feeling up to job but might settle down, keep trying to get kittens to feed from mum as this is best for them but for now i would take over if you want to keep kittys alive.


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## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

I have been getting advice from the lady i bought the cat from but to be honest she is little help and I can rarely get hold of her
she couldnt even give me a rough date that the mating could have happened
I found out she was pregnant after I bought her as really I wanted her to settle into our house and find a stud etc

I have spoken to the vet and she said i need to top once or twice a day and hope mum doesn't stop feeding them
she wants to be with them all the time but I have to be with her but she isnt cleaning them much either
dont know anyone near me to ask with a queen?
would a nursing queen take them on?


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## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

will go check her teats
vet said a shot of oxcytocin(sorry dont know spelling) would help with the milk if she aint got much
brb


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Some queens will yes, but until then you will have to feed them yourself in the meantime, and if they have dropped that much weight more that 2x a day. At this age they need 2ml every 2 hours (day and night). If Mum is still with them they will attempt to comfort suck. I would give them full 2hrly feeds for the rest of the day, to see if you can get them to put on a bit of weight. Then if Mum will stay with them whilst you are in there, start giving them slightly less than 2ml and get them latched onto Mum straight after, monitoring their weights, if they start dropping, take the feed back up a bit.

I would order some Kittystim too, that will be helpful. Your vet may well stock it, but I doubt it. Nutridrops are something else that can help.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I agree with Saikou, you need to get something into them, once they start going downhill it may not be easy to get them going again. They are too small to delay things. Dehydration can kill a lot of kittens.


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## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

I got a bottle feed ready for 12.30 and the little one which I am more worried about has a few little gulps then just went limp
it had no energy at at
the second I couldn't really get onto the teat
mum I let mum in and they seemed to have a good feed and the first one livened up a bit
I have stayed with them all afternoon and they just had another feed off mum at 2.30 so will try the bottle again next feed
I have to wipe the bottoms and they start to wee and then mum will take over 
I squeezed her teats and she does have milk


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

If they are too weak to suck, you can try a 1ml syringe (no needle) its very easy to control the flow with those, and you can almost drip milk in across the tongue allowing the kitten just to swallow. You have to do it carefully to ensure you don't put too much in at once. With siamese I find the teats on some of the bottles too big, much larger than Mums, and they won't suck from them.

If they perked up a bit and sucked from Mum thats a good sign. It might be just a case of staying with her whilst they feed, if she is happy to let them do that whilst you are there. At least you know they are getting colostrum that way. She just needs to get her confidence and get into a routine with them.


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## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

the bottle i got has a selection of teats and the smallest is smaller than her teats and the next size up is bigger
I bottle fed a kitten that I found on my mums farm once a long time ago its just getting the hang of it
am praying the they make it
have got mother in law to have the kids while hubby gets home from work and then he's off for a week so I will just have to stay with her


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## sjreilly72 (Jan 8, 2009)

Sorry to hear all the worry you are having right now :sad:the kittens sound like they are in very good hands with you, you are doing a great job, keep up the good work.:thumbsup:
Try and keep us updated when and if you can hun.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

hstar said:


> the bottle i got has a selection of teats and the smallest is smaller than her teats and the next size up is bigger


That sounds good what make is it, I have a shirleys, a mikki and an RC one and the teats are all too big on those.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Hiya hows it going have you manged to get them to eat yet? 

I possibly would not let mum have another litter as she hasnt taken to it well  Very sad, does she feed them whem you are with her?

have they taken to the bottle? :001_wub:


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## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

am sat in tears
the little one is dying in my hand

posted my last message and went up to them
she had taken it out of the box and left it in the floor
its lifeless and only just breating
i dont know what to do


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

oh,that's sad  thoughts are with you. I think I agree with Taylorbaby she doesn't sound like an ideal mum.


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## Kathryn1 (Jan 30, 2009)

hstar said:


> am sat in tears
> the little one is dying in my hand
> 
> posted my last message and went up to them
> ...


Aww i am so sorry to hear this, it is awful news. xxx


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I am so sorry, I think at that point there is very little you can do, just keep him or her warm. They go so quickly. There may have been something not quite right with him at birth, you never can tell.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I just wanted to say as well, I wouldn't give up on Mum too quickly. Lots of them can be over awed on their first time, like people, but every pregnancy is different. Next time she maybe completely different.


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## sjreilly72 (Jan 8, 2009)

I am so sorry to hear this , I realy do feel for you. My thoughts are with you :crying:


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## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

had in him my hands to keep him warm
he made a huge effort to whimper and mum came and gave him a clean and
managed to get a bit more milk down him and have put him back with the other
(think its a boy)
other one had a feed while the smaller one got a clean off mum
can see a huge size difference in them now
am getting everything ready for another bottle
will keep trying


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## sjreilly72 (Jan 8, 2009)

hstar you have done everything possible for this little guy, without your help he may not have lasted this long.
Take care.


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## chestnut (May 27, 2008)

You really are doing a fantastic job, hope everything goes well tonight.x


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear this but like others have said you are doing a great job & as tiring as it is keep going. I know that you will feel disheartened but just know that everyone here is giving you support. Sleep deprivation takes it's toll but my fingers are crossed that the little one turns a corner.

I wish you all the very best & please keep us informed xx


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

So sad 

Did he take to the bottle or sryinge?


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## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

he is having a few little gulps but doesn't have the energy to suckle but.... his whimper turned into a little meow
I have got the kids to bed and brought the box down and they are next to me on the sofa
I am wondering if mums milk has been slow starting as the other has just has a huge feed. up until now they have done a few mins if that and fallen asleep but the other just fed for over 10mins
thanxs for all the support

re the milk
I have been making just 10ml at at time then sterilizing all the stuff and discarding what is left 
can I make a bit more and store it in the fridge and heat it so all I have to do is sterilize the bottle
just thinking of a long night ahead and how to make it easier


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

which replacement milk are you using? 

Can you latch him on to mums nips? I did this a few times for the babies x


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

you can keep milk in fridge as you would babys bottles


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Try a syringe if he is too weak to suckle. If you read the milk instructions it usually says whether you can store unused in the fridge and for how long. I prefer to make it up fresh each time, make less, and Mum drinks any excess.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I made mine say at 10am then if it isnt all used it can keep in the frigde until 10am the next day but by then its very cold & you need to let it warm upa bit

so I just thought its easyer to make it up as you go?

Also on the side of mine you have to use boiled water that has cooled, not 'normal' water x


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## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

we have sat with him all night in the box on the sofa
he started to deteriorate again and this time did not pick up
he has just passed away

mum has not wanted anything to do with him for the past few hours
even taken the other kitten away (not far into another chair where I can see them)
in away i am relieved he is not suffering anymore, he has been so lifeless for the past hour, just short shallow breaths


he was to weak to suckle of mum and though he did start to pick up and take from the teat he just went the opposite way and laid out mouth open only just managing to breath in the end

its heartbreaking how attached I have got to them
am gutted

the other is doing a lot better
mum has settled right down with it and is feeding and nursing it often
I wonder if there was something wrong with the tiny one?
thanxs for everyone's support


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## Kathryn1 (Jan 30, 2009)

hstar said:


> we have sat with him all night in the box on the sofa
> he started to deteriorate again and this time did not pick up
> he has just passed away
> 
> ...


aww i am so sorry, it must be heartbreaking for you but at least he is at peace now xxx


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2009)

aww i'm so so sorry, you did everything you could for him, remember that, and i'm sure he knows just how much you loved him and fought for him xxx


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## ella (Jan 1, 2009)

Oh, I'm so sorry things didnt go as hoped,


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## sjreilly72 (Jan 8, 2009)

hstar I am so sorry to hear the little one has passed:crying:
You did everything you could have done and more. Please don't beat yourself up over this, you did a fantastic job.
Take care , thinking of you today.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear about the little one. If Mum is now settled more with her other baby, he could have been the issue. They know when there is something not quite right with a baby, even though we still have to do everything we possibly can, they have an instinct that tells them. Mother Nature at her best, but her most cruel.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

i'm sorry. my cat wouldn't settle with her babies. one of them was very weak etc and despite my best efforts she died after about 26 hours. mum then settled down and was great. they do know best and obviously there was something wrong with the kitten. it's sad but mother nature really is quite wonderful how they just "know"


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## hstar (Dec 21, 2007)

I dont think she has enough milk
if I squeeze her nipple a bit does come out but not masses
the one left seems to suck constantly when mum is in and has now started crying when on its own so am going to continue with the top up feeds best i can
it doesn't really like the teat


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

good luck!


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2009)

try using a syinge to feed instead of the bottle and teat, some kittens accept the syringe better than a bottle teat. If you dont have a syringe pop into your local chemist and ask for a childs medicine syringe. It will be a 5ml syringe, just remember to sterilise before use. Good luck, your being a great surrogate mummy

hth xxx


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## abbscats (Nov 8, 2008)

if you need a 1ml syringe I have lots and am always willing to post them out - pm with your address and I could pop a couple in the post for you, or anyone else on her that would like small syringes. My daughter is tube fed and I use them to administer her medication and always have plenty. Always happy to help!!


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