# My Spidy Senses are Tingling



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Full pedigree chinchilla persian boy - VIDEO | Burton Upon Trent, Staffordshire | Pets4Homes

Is this the same little boy she's been having problems with? The import?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

omg i believe this is the same boy who has leg problems but is advertised as healthy.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Definitely, Carly. The surface he's sitting/playing on and the surroundings/background are identical in the video from the earlier thread and the picture in the ad link you provided.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

omg yes thats her garden in the back ground,hang on didnt she state the kitten didnt know how to play! Truly shocking nothing mentioned in the ad about his problems. Well outsider thats shameful.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> Definitely, Carly. The surface he's sitting/playing on and the surroundings/background are identical in the video from the earlier thread and the picture in the ad link you provided.


ooh your too quick D.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Both videos .... the one that was posted on the other thread, and the one posted on Pets4Homes are definately in the same garden


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm really not surprised. Confused, much, but not surprised. There was something very odd about the whole saga right from the off.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

:lol: we all noticed the same thing



There are other videos of different persians


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

How can she say parents can be seen,looks like shes cleaned his face up wel..'golden on face' i expect thats the staining?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jenny1966 said:


> :lol: we all noticed the same thing
> 
> There are other videos of different persians


Are there? where? Seems shes used to selling kittens anyway.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Well ive emailed and stated an interest as i would love to go and visit this person.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

The thing that got me was the lines she quotes. Sandypaws i know very, very, very well. Why? Because they specialise in colourpoints, Himmies, and definitely not chinchillas! They're world famous for himmies actually.

Really sad that I was right.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Well ive emailed and stated an interest as i would love to go and visit this person.


lol wel i think you may get knocked back on that on if one is viewing


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Golden persian little boy... - YouTube

Golden persian boy, same garden


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

carly87 said:


> The thing that got me was the lines she quotes. Sandypaws i know very, very, very well. Why? Because they specialise in colourpoints, Himmies, and definitely not chinchillas! They're world famous for himmies actually.
> 
> Really sad that I was right.


Is this where the kitten is from carly?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jenny1966 said:


> Golden persian little boy... - YouTube
> 
> Golden persian boy, same garden


yup!

Why always outside though?


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## Raggiemum71 (Sep 16, 2013)

Is it the same kitten, this one looks different to me but wouldn't surprise me if it was.  The kitten in the ad looks younger than the one in the video.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

i'm confused. seems i've missed something mind you doesn't take much to confuse me

edit: forget that, i've just found what you are all talking about


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Advert says lines LIKE sandypaws, this doesnt mean the pedigree line IS sandypaws.


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Hard to say if its the same kitten, it looks like they have a few.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jenny1966 said:


> Hard to say if its the same kitten, it looks like they have a few.


Are there any more ads up?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Someone let me in .... Confused today .... It's the pain


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Their website makes interesting reading


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Ohhh outsider.....

you talk more rubbish via emails than you do on this forum. 

How can imported cats be healthier than local cats, imports do and can have gum problems and tummy problems the same as the locals.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Doesn't it just!

Sandypaws is certainly not where the kitten is from!

Sad really, as she's obviously done her research on raw etc, and I have to say that the advice is better than the rubbish you see on a lot of breeder websites. But the over-breeding is horrendous. I counted 19 kittens by one mum just on the "snapshots of past kittens" thingy, so I'm sure she's hd many more that aren't up there.

The thing I would say is that buying pedigrees from pet shops is really not uncommon in Hungary, so while I don't like it, I'm not coming down on her for that. However, there are so many inconsistencies it's unreal.

It's awful to think that if she'd approached me right, I was more than willing to help her, as I remember how hard it was to get started propperly, and she seemed keen to do it right. Had my Hungarian auntie all primed and ready to go to translate fully to help this lady understand the best way to do things here. She contacted me (Ok, can't be definite, but am 99% certain as the facts match up) for use of a stud boy last year before i got mine, and I went through with her then the fact that no breeder would allow her to use their stud with unregistered cats when sh "just wanted to make more pretty kittens".

Very, very sad.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

I see she's offering a pedigree - I thought the breeder didn't supply one.

And so much for "I don't sell unhealthy kittens, and i am not a person who cheats another person etc etc etc"

(thrwwppp - farty noise) 

EDIT: Hang on - "Parents can be seen" - so she's passing him off as homebred?


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

What a vile piece of work 

That poor little boy she brought over  I hope he ends up in a better home soon


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

That is so sad . I saw the other thread but didn't have anything to add, at first I was a bit shocked as I had assumed she had bought the cat on active and imported it but after reading about her poor 8 year old girl who was to have her first litter I was glad to have not got involved. It is most certainly the same person because if you read the description and go on the website they mention "Choosie" and that is the name of the 8 year old girl she intended to breed the imported kitten to. Poor little guy


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jenny1966 said:


> Their website makes interesting reading


jeez their breeding from a ten year old girl too


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Jenny1966 said:


> Their website makes interesting reading


That's what I thought - for someone who only breeds as a hobby, and doesn't breed very often, they've certainly got a lot of kittens . . .


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

shame she doesnt know her own name.


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> That is so sad . I saw the other thread but didn't have anything to add, at first I was a bit shocked as I had assumed she had bought the cat on active and imported it but after reading about her poor 8 year old girl who was to have her first litter I was glad to have not got involved. It is most certainly the same person because if you read the description and go on the website they mention "Choosie" and that is the name of the 8 year old girl she intended to breed the imported kitten to. Poor little guy


Choosie's already had kittens tho, if you read the page about her.

What a huge pile of horse**** she tried to feed us.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

And who badmouths "real breeders" for making too much money.

Seems that this lady can't remember her own name either. Advert mentions one name, yet, look on the testamonial section of her website, and one of the new owners thinks she's called something else entirely. Madness!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Too quick, CC!


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

kittens are pets only so they are not registered.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

muffin789 said:


> Choosie's already had kittens tho, if you read the page about her.
> 
> What a huge pile of horse**** she tried to feed us.


I just read that... how strange for her to say that she hadn't...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lostbear said:


> I see she's offering a pedigree - I thought the breeder didn't supply one.
> 
> And so much for "I don't sell unhealthy kittens, and i am not a person who cheats another person etc etc etc"
> 
> ...


i would bet shes going to pass him off as her own..


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Not strange at all if she wanted the sympathy vote.

The thing that's strange is that she came on here at all and told us about it. What was she hoping to gain?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

very odd and very fishy all of it.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

maybe she wanted to know if any new owner could sue her for selling an unhealthy kitten, but then thats just me thinking.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

carly87 said:


> Not strange at all if she wanted the sympathy vote.
> 
> The thing that's strange is that she came on here at all and told us about it. What was she hoping to gain?


well she been outed now as a down and out liar.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> jeez their breeding from a ten year old girl too


I've just seen that as well


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

thatsafunnylookingcat said:


> I've just seen that as well


its sad,iv only briefly looked at the site i bet there is loads more stuff in there.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I think spids coming to play


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Ohhhh here comes Spid


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> maybe she wanted to know if any new owner could sue her for selling an unhealthy kitten, but then thats just me thinking.


I bet you're right. What a piece of work she is!

Is there any way to sabotage her ad? Some time ago there was an ad warning people about buying from a particular breeder who was advertising, but you'v got to be really careful about the libel laws - there are ways and means of wording it. Of cours, we could all make an appointment and not turn up . . . .


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Here I am!!!!! :w00t:


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

I've just watched the two vids of the white boys (the one she came on here about, and the one that's in the ad) back to back, and I really not sure they're the same cat. The imported boy looks a lot older/bigger than than the one in the advert vid to me but my knowledge is almost zero on these things.

But I do have to say her vids (well the ones I've watched) are very cleverly stage-managed; the cats are played with in such a way that there is no need for them to be getting really energetic or jumping around. Very handy if there are issues with movement you'd rather not highlight....

ETA - none of the cats look that happy to be outside imho either. But I do remember her saying in the other thread that she likes to take proper photos of her kittens outdoors so they can be seen in the best light (when she was going on about the staining on the imported boy's face)


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

muffin789 said:


> I've just watched the two vids of the white boys (the one she came on here about, and the one that's in the ad) back to back, and I really not sure they're the same cat. The imported boy looks a lot older/bigger than than the one in the advert vid to me but my knowledge is almost zero on these things.
> 
> But I do have to say her vids (well the ones I've watched) are very cleverly stage-managed; the cats are played with in such a way that there is no need for them to be getting really energetic or jumping around. Very handy if there are issues with movement you'd rather not highlight....


she could be using a vid of her own kittens to pass off as him possibly with the pics too


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Last email ive just received is she is taking a breeder to court so this must be her own bred kitten in the advert but she makes note to tell me she is not a breeder.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Last email ive just received is she is taking a breeder to court so this must be her own bred kitten in the advert but she makes note to tell me she is not a breeder.


keep fishing cc


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

I so want to email her and say that I'd been interested in her kitten from the ad, but had looked at her website and become concerned about the number of kittens of of her queens has had, and that this had been made worse by one of the videos linked from her Youtube link in the ad, as there was a poorly looking cat in it.

I don't think I have the energy tonight tho.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Nahh.

last email to say she is a detective and is watching


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Nahh.
> 
> last email to say she is a detective and is watching


haha oh dear


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

What is it people say about eavesdroppers? Something along the lines that they seldom hear good about themselves?? Bet her pants are on fire tonight!!!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Nahh.
> 
> last email to say she is a detective and is watching


must be viewing not been logged in then


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Lordy Lordy Lordy .... WTF.... Well am lost for words .... Why oh why


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Lordy Lordy Lordy .... WTF.... Well am lost for words .... Why oh why


you on track now cm?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

So glad I don't have the energy tonight.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> you on track now cm?


Yeah ... Painkillers effecting my Brain ...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Yeah ... Painkillers effecting my Brain ...


what ya done?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I love this bit on her kitten page...

Also - however it is rare but - as we met people who wanted our poor kittens for reselling or heartless, moneymaker breading, they were clearly not interested in the kitten itself and we wish them to have a loving home, because of it we keep up the right to step back at any time of the process if we have reason to do this for the sake of the kitten. Thanks for your


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Hmm, I often go on the P4H website to browse the Persian kittens so I just had to go and see this advert. This person has advertised Chinchilla's and Golden's for yonks now, all with the same badly worded advert (presumably due to not being English?). Usually it says that no kittens are registered because the parents are imported and can't be registered here. 

Make of that what you will :nonod:


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> what ya done?


Slip disc in my lower back ... Scooping kittens litter this morning ... Back has well and truly gone. OH is on Litter and feeding duties and general running around after them ... More cuddles for me


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

TM, I've seen her on there for ages and ages too. Just clicked tonight who she was!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> I love this bit on her kitten page...
> 
> Also - however it is rare but - as we met people who wanted our poor kittens for reselling or heartless, moneymaker breading, they were clearly not interested in the kitten itself and we wish them to have a loving home, because of it we keep up the right to step back at any time of the process if we have reason to do this for the sake of the kitten. Thanks for your


That a bit hypocritical dont ya think ... Breeding from old girls that are not registered in the UK and charging a flipping high price for unregistered , unhealthy kitten .... Have a word love

That has really got my back up ... O


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> That a bit hypocritical dont ya think ... Breeding from old girls that are not registered in the UK and charging a flipping high price for unregistered , unhealthy kitten .... Have a word love
> 
> That has really got my back up ... O


Wel if its the male kitten in question she doesnt want him now he cant be used for breeding so yes very hypocritical.

I cant believe a 10 year old cat is still been used poor thing deserves a life now its done its part for the breed well you know what i mean.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Wel if its the male kitten in question she doesnt want him now he cant be used for breeding so yes very hypocritical.
> 
> I cant believe a 10 year old cat is still been used poor thing deserves a life now its done its part for the breed well you know what i mean.


I just could not do it to my girls I consider 4 old for a queen... Poor babies

As for the boy , if he is the boy advertised I personally could not sell him on knowing he had problems , its just passing on your mistakes to someone else ... I would rather he remain with me as a loved pet than past on ...

Moneymaking breeders ... Yes she is defo one for those ...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Does he really have those problems or was she fibbing?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Does he really have those problems or was she fibbing?


nothing would surprise would it now..but why?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

It's called attention seeking I think  Let make up a story cos I have a sad life... I really do think some ppl live in a totally different world too me .. 
I really do wonder sometimes is it me that's not normal I seem to come across these ppl more and more lol


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Nahh.
> 
> last email to say she is a detective and is watching


For a supposed detective she knows stuff all about covering her tracks... 

Wouldn't want to be a kitty in her house, poor little ladies


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

carly87 said:


> They're world famous for himmies actually.


Seems to have a thing for 'world famous'

The males pedigree does show 3 Sandypaws cats in it.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Seems to have a thing for 'world famous'
> 
> The males pedigree does show 3 Sandypaws cats in it.


Is it his pedigree though? Shes suppose to have never seen his pedigree never mind received it.

If its the cat in question.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

carly87 said:


> Not strange at all if she wanted the sympathy vote.
> 
> The thing that's strange is that she came on here at all and told us about it. What was she hoping to gain?


I read the post about this the other day, it just seemed like OP wanted to bad mouth a breeder or 2 but didn't get very far cos her story didn't hold up.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Crikey. I think her byb, kitten farming hovel is probably quite a money spinner


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Is it his pedigree though? Shes suppose to have never seen his pedigree never mind received it.
> 
> If its the cat in question.


Her stud boy, older boy. Would have sired the kitten advertised assuming it's not the import.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Her stud boy, older boy. Would have sired the kitten advertised assuming it's not the import.


Im with ya


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

personally i dont believe a vet would sign a kitten who couldnt walk as fit to be imported, i do feel the kitten would have been in perfect health when leaving the other breeder and we dont know how long this outsider has had the kitten for, so could have happened (if it happened) at outsiders home rather than the previous breeder.

He could even have fallen off that cabin thing playing and twisted his leg, which could explain why he didnt want to play with the toy in the video.

But again thats just me as i could pick many holes in outsiders original story, plus why hasnt outsider had xrays done on this kitten (or has she).


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I did see that, SC. Still, not really something to boast about, as if you're breeding chinnies, you'd be boasting about the world famous chinny lines you're using, not the CP lines which will dilute the eye colour and potentially the other markings too.


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## Cheryl89 (Jun 24, 2013)

Just caught up with all of this, can't blooming believe it :cursing: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

well i've just sat and 'tried' to understand what i've read in that other thread - now that was hard work i must say 
i don't think my head will allow me to read this whole thread too at this point in time. think i'll come back later and try to catch up


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## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

If you look at the original YouTube clip and click on profile you can see videos of her other kittens and she has another that looks very similar to the poorly boy. Don't know if its him before/after he was poorly or if its just a different kitten


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I guess we will never know if its said kitten.

I cant believe what she gets/charges for her unregistered kittens  Id like to know im getting what im paying for i guess not everyones the same!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Time flies said:


> <snip>
> the alledgedly poorly boy
> <snip>


He was badly groomed, I have no idea if he really is as ill as she claims.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

WOow, just wow! hmy:

£470!!! For a cat with no papers or vacs? (or just 1st vac?) 


On her website it says she only has 1 boy available... Im taking it its the boy she imported and will just say her 8-10year old cats are the mum  So sad for those cats, much have had so many litters over the years living 'natural' life's


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> WOow, just wow! hmy:
> 
> £470!!! For a cat with no papers or vacs? (or just 1st vac?)
> 
> On her website it says she only has 1 boy available... Im taking it its the boy she imported and will just say her 8-10year old cats are the mum  So sad for those cats, much have had so many litters over the years living 'natural' life's


All of the above exactly!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_its not the imported boy, she allready had a litter of kittens,this boy does look similar but it isnt the same kitten, she does have the parents to view for these kittens._


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

colliemerles said:


> _its not the imported boy, she allready had a litter of kittens,this boy does look similar but it isnt the same kitten, she does have the parents to view for these kittens._


Intersting cm you need to spill the beans now


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## outsider (Jun 20, 2013)

carly87 said:


> Full pedigree chinchilla persian boy - VIDEO | Burton Upon Trent, Staffordshire | Pets4Homes
> 
> Is this the same little boy she's been having problems with? The import?


I am here as a friend of mine attached your comment to show it to me.

Answer: 
No, he is our own boy not the importad cat. Imported cat is nothing to compare to our healthy kittens, my kittens weight around age of 9 weeks is 1-1.1 kg, imported kittens weight in the age of 4! month is around 1.1 kg. Not to mention appereance. My cats has not have much gums or nothing, while imported arrived with eye illness and very ugly and huge gum marks on his face (under treatment).
As you can see, my kittens has nothing wrong with is legs, while imported has a luxating patella and can't really move if try, he can't use his leg properly and sometimes fall or 'just' lame / limpig.

Also I do not know which one of you try to harass me without permisson (like writing, calling, using personal details!) but it is disgusting and I do not wish to send more time on this Forum among you, sorry.

What I seen was more than enough of your company, lack of knowledge, etc. However it is good to see that this little company has so much spare time to spend it here, good for you, I have cats to take care...

Bye.


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## outsider (Jun 20, 2013)

and Carly87 (and company), instead of spending time here the company here rather should develop knowledge about cats.

I can't decide wether to laugh at you or just simply ingore but as I feel sorry for cats, I write it down:

Here I always hear: 'sensitive cats, sensitive stomac, gums on the corner of their eyes, we keep them locked not to catche illness or worms from outside, etc'

Yes, now I understand. When I arrived I did not understand that in a country which is so rich how is it possible that you have so many sick animals. 

Yes, inbreeding, lack of _proper_ food (proper food for carnivores!) and overvaccination generation after generation can cause this result especially if people' ingnorance gives a helping hand.

Have you ever anyone of you seen in a ZOO that staff gave a pack of rice or rice-cake to lions? No? Yes, because lions are rare, expensive so they can't afford to be ingorant and keep them eg on R.Canin or even ovvervaccinate them.

All in one, I feel true sorry for your cats here but they are not mine resposibility and now, if you forgive (and even if not) I leave you alone to spend time with mean quiestionning, suspicious guessing becasue of course it will help you much more to know about cats than go back to the 'school' and spend some time with education about bilology, carnivores, nature, etc.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I think you will find they there is alot of experienced breeders on this forum and look after there cats very very well .... Cats do get ill FACT that does not mean there are not looked after .....

We also don't breed from old cats .... As us reputable breeders consider it to ethically wrong , all our cats are tested and seek medical attention if needed .. All our cats and kittens are registered in the UK and health checked 

So before you harp on about us being bad breeders ..have a look at your own setup ...

Oh and time Spent on here .... It's called time management .....


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Outsider, I think you've picked the wrong forum, as the vast majority of us do not feed rice to our cats. In fact, we help people learn that this is not good! We are also aware of the risks of over-vaccinating, and the benefits of appropriately spaced, well researched vaccines. Before you come jumping on me, I suggest you go back and read some of my previous posts where I have been very fair in ensuring that people don't have a go at you for buying from pet shops etc, where I have said that there is no finite age to neuter, but there should be a loose cut off point etc, where I have said that a lot of your care advice is very good, even if I don't agree with how you breed. I have been equally fair at stating what I don't agree with in your set up, and what I think you can't be blamed for.

Many of us do not lock our cats up as you say. Many have purpose built cat runs or secured gardens, just like you do, so that cats can enjoy the outside whilst remaining safe. In-breeding is actually not allowed in this country, and you would know that if you registered your kittens. You can't register closely related parents' offspring for this very reason.

Gunk in the eyes is just part of owning a Persian, and you know it is as you have stated so on your website. You state that they will need regular eye care, and if you don't do it, the cats will get stained. So please don't imply that cats are unhealthy just because they have tear staining, and yours are not.

It's a shame that you've had an imported boy with all of these problems, but sadly, if you want support for what you are doing, perhaps this is not the right place for you to get it, especially as you are determined to suggest that we all follow poor practice when it comes to keeping cats. The sad thing is that, in terms of diet and safe outdoor access, many of us have the same mind set as you do. It's the breeding that's the problem.

Man, makes me sad. This could have turned out so differently.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

See again with the not listening - you Outsider - just ignore all the good parts I have talked about and tar everyone with the same brush. 

We are all bad because we do the things you want us to???? (re food and vaccs etc) 

The only thing we have really disagreed on is the age you still breed from and that's because you have some strange idea that cats will choose whether they want to mate or not and so have kittens. 

But, hey, your choice I suppose to ignore everything that is good.


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