# Kitten inappetance, virus?



## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi have 3 nine week old Devon kittens who up until 10days ago were doing fantastic. Mum then came into call and at same time kittens started vomiting "cottage cheese" Mentor had warned me that this often happen with Devons so removed mum, kittens stopped being sick and started to regain weight for a few days. 
Then the intermittent sickness returned combined with loose stools and lack of appetite. Kittens remained bright eyed and playful but started loosing weight.
A vet visit revealed no temperatures, no swollens glands, nothing amiss in mouths, no respiratory symptons - covenia injections were given on friday. It is now Sunday and kittens are still loosing weight and eating very little. Vet said bland diet but quite frankly I am happy to give them anything they will eat. I will be collecting a 3 day stool sample re parasites but I wouldnt of thought parasites would make them vomit although I have no previous experience of parasites. Any suggestions gratefully received and of course I will be returning to the vets tomorrow, earlier if they stop looking alert.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It could be anything so I feel for you big time. Something in the back of my mind is saying check for absolutely everything in a stool sample including anything which may require antibiotics. I've got a dim memory of a breeder going through a similar problem and looking in the wrong direction for weeks because the kittens had already been given a broad spectrum antibiotic so they only checked for things like Giardia, TF etc. I cannot recall what it was but I do remember it was something which required a specific antibiotic. 

In the meantime, my personal 'thing' with kittens is keeping them hydrated so if they are drinking I'd replace straight water with rehydration fluids, something like Lectade.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Thank you Havoc. Yes they are drinking, so I will replace their straight water with lectade. I will also have an extensive google to see what I can test for poop wise and try and make sure I cover everything. Its heartbreaking watching them get thinner and thinner and be seemingly unable to help them.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

You are describing exactly what my fellow breeder went through and with kittens almost exactly the same age. Because of the delay in diagnosis these kittens were not fit for new homes until well past the 13 week stage *but she didn't lose any*. She was in despair, they went from being super big and healthy kittens to half their 9 week weight, started just after first vacs so she didn't react for a few days. That of course gave her something else to beat herself up over


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

If feel for you as I have in the past also been through this worry.
I used Panacur Paste on a litter of kittens, they was due worming but at the same time mum came into call, this probably started the cottage cheese.

All samples of tests came back to be e-coli so was given probiotics and fluids to give to the kittens.

I blamed everything until another vet said to give Ronaxan and treat for mycoplasma, didn't really see the point as all tests apart from e-coli was clear.

Anyway 7 days Ronxan, kittens was better, cant explain why, although I am not saying this is the same as your kittens, just my own experience.

Another vet said kittens do go though the thin stage so to keep giving fluids.

I don't know what the answer is but this time round had the same thing again but I used Drontal instead of panacur, kittens seem better.

I didn't lose any kittens and after a few weeks (14 weeks old), they was fine and could be rehomed.

I would ask your vet about Ronaxan and see what they say, it wont harm to give them this.

For poorly tummies I used 100% natural pumpkin, butternut squash works the same.

Let us know how you get on, I also fed what they would eat and didn't stick to a bland diet.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Thank you both for your replies, Havoc its heartening to know your friend didnt loose any kittens even though they lost half their bodyweight - we are approx average 100gr down each at the moment.
Catcoonz thank you for the information re the Roxanan - interestingly these kittens had just been wormed but because of previous problems people had with panacur paste, I used milbemax. I seem to remember reading somewhere that zithromax can be used off label for small kittens with the same result as ronaxan without the possibility of yellow teeth and as it is a liquid with a more accurate dosage for small kittens, I will speak to my vet tomorrow about it, anything is worth a try.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I seem to remember reading somewhere that zithromax can be used off label for small kittens with the same result as ronaxan


You are really starting to jog my memory now. I've got a feeling the kittens couldn't tolerate the first antibiotic prescribed post diagnosis and it had to be changed. Is zith still off label? Is there a paediatric suspension you make up yourself by adding water to powder in the bottle? If so then it's very possible they went down the Ronaxan (then changed to) Zith route. Recovery was remarkable.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I used the Ronaxan tablets, no issues, gave quarter tablet but it was advised to dissolve in water then syringe to kitten followed by another 2ml water.

If you give the tablet without dissolving the problem you may get is the tablets get stuck down the throat, always follow with water.

Hope kittens get better soon.

Had issues with Milbemax aswell, most likely just bad timing on my part though so I switched to Drontal.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

I think I have found the article I remember reading - 

Azithromycin, produced by Pfizer under the brand name Zithromax or Azitrocin, has emerged as a very valuable antibiotic for the treatment of various infections in the cat. It is well tolerated, even by young kittens, and its efficacy in the treatment of upper respiratory infections (including bordetella and chlamydia), in particular, is unequalled by other anitbiotics. It is cleared very slowly from feline tissue, resulting in dosage schedules that are very convenient for the cat owner. A single dose maintains effective drug levels in the cat's tissues for as long as a week. The correct dose for the use of azithromycin in cats is 5 mg/kg (5 mg of drug for every 2.2 pounds of cat or 2.3 mg per pound of cat).

Because of the persistance of this drug in feline tissues, DO NOT try to translate any protocol given for the use of this drug in humans and try to apply it to your cat. This mistake has been made by numerous veterinarians and pharmacists. DO NOT double the amount of the drug given with the first dose, as is done with humans. This drug should be given as a single dose treatment for minor URI, or once a day for three days in more serious cases. Five days after the first series of three doses, another series of three doses may be given if necessary. For chronic conditions, dosing the cat once or twice a week for extended periods of time may be appropriate.

Elizabeth Hodgkins, DVM feels that the above dosage schedule may be too low for many cats and recommends a dosages schedule of 5-10 mg/kg for six days, with a double dose the first day. Her recommendation: "I generally use 10-20 mg of the suspension per cat (.25-.5 cc of the oral suspension) twice daily for the first day of treatment for cats 3-8 lbs in weight. I then use the same dose once daily for another 6 days straight. In heavier cats, I will use 30-40 mg twice daily for the first day and then once daily for an additional 6 days. I have tried the alternating days dosing as well as the abbreviated (3 day) dosing and have found that these regimes invariably predispose to relapse and prolongation of treatment and clinical signs. I am convinced that, at least in my hands, the protocol described above gives the most consistently positive results in cats with no side effects whatsoever (sound of wood knocking). Also, response is best when the drug is given on an empty stomach and food is withheld for at least an hour after administration."


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Also thanks CC about the info re milbemax - I cant remember what the minimum weight is for drontal but I think it is too high for Devons, they are quite small compared to your breed


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If a kitten is at least 6 weeks old and at least 500g it can have 1/2 kitten Milbemax. At 1kg plus it gets a whole kitten Milbemax.

NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Milbemax Tablets for Small Cats and Kittens/Milbemax Tablets for Cats - Dosage and administration


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Drontol have to be 1kg, I give quarter tablet but yes Maine Coons are big kittens.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> Drontol have to be 1kg, I give quarter tablet but yes Maine Coons are big kittens.


Thats the problem for me with drontol - my Devons were doing well before they got sick and were 800gr at 8 weeks - I have bought two Devon Queens who are now good sized Devons that were only 900 gr at 13 weeks - thats why I chose milbemax, seemed like a better choice than panacur


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I know people have had problems after giving Panacur but I'm still to be convinced it's the root of the problem. As we discuss this more and more I think it may turn out that worming kittens when there is already an underlying issue could be something we look at. That underlying issue could be as simple as a calling mum or something which wouldn't normally cause a huge problem. Worming must upset the balance in the gut and if that balance is ready to tip then worming might be what does it whatever product we use. For me the advantage of Panacur liquid is the accuracy of individual dosing for weight so I've stuck with it.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I use kitten Milbemax. I have tried using Panacur in the past and accurate dosing my eye. I ended up wearing most of it!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

What age/weight do you worm at? Half a kitten Milbemax is the dose for a 0.5-1kg which means a kitten at the lower end is getting twice as much for body weight as one at the top end.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

havoc said:


> What age/weight do you worm at? Half a kitten Milbemax is the dose for a 0.5-1kg which means a kitten at the lower end is getting twice as much for body weight as one at the top end.


This was my problem as Devon kittens are small - mine were doing well and were just shy of 800g and 8 weeks when I wormed them with half kitten milbemax possibly coincidence but nothing has been right since. 
TBH this was a bit late for me, but I had checked my three Devons queens kittening records (all from different breeders) and none were wormed before 7 weeks. I think next time I will go back to the panacur suspension and worm earlier for the reasons stated.

Just back from the vets, 2 kittens have had sub Qs as mildly dehydrated and I have been given sub Qs to do at home when necessary. Also been given a bottle of Erythromycin powder mixed with water that smells of bananas - if no improvement in 48hrs can then try Zithromax - have to try Erythromycin first as it is licensed for pets where Zithromax apparently isnt. Fingers crossed.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> This was my problem as Devon kittens are small - mine were doing well and were just shy of 800g and 8 weeks when I wormed them with half kitten milbemax possibly coincidence but nothing has been right since.


I honestly don't think it's one thing such as worming which causes the problems. I do think if we hit it just wrong then we give the baddies chance to flourish. I worm at 5, 8 and 11 weeks with Panacur, maybe using Milbemax at the 11 week one depending on when I've been into the vet. I stopped worming kittens just before they left me because some buyers choose to take their kitten to the vet very soon after getting it home to register it and some vets tend to stick a worming pill into them without asking/checking first.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Why would a vet give kittens with an unknown ailment Convenia injections? Convenia is for soft tissue and skin infections, for one thing, and it is an antibiotic that stays in the system for over two months. I can't understand that at all. Any symptoms now, how are you going to know if it is a reaction to the Convenia, or a symptom of the original problem?

Hope the kittens will be okay, but I'd be questioning that vet very closely and possibly looking for one not so quick with a needle.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

lorilu said:


> Why would a vet give kittens with an unknown ailment Convenia injections? Convenia is for soft tissue and skin infections, for one thing, and it is an antibiotic that stays in the system for over two months. I can't understand that at all. Any symptoms now, how are you going to know if it is a reaction to the Convenia, or a symptom of the original problem?
> 
> Hope the kittens will be okay, but I'd be questioning that vet very closely and possibly looking for one not so quick with a needle.


Thats a valid point, I wasnt "on the ball" last Friday my brother had just had surgery for cancer. 
I have only chnged vets approx 9 months ago and up to now have found my new vets faultless - this morning I was in the surgery for nearly on hour while she looked at the kittens took temps did sub Qs vit B injections etc - she is wiling to listen to any suggestion and if she hasnt heard of something she will research it. I dont know that I would be willing to change again, just unfortunate i didnt ask questions on friday - believe you me I normally ask masses.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

wicket said:


> Thats the problem for me with drontol - my Devons were doing well before they got sick and were 800gr at 8 weeks - I have bought two Devon Queens who are now good sized Devons that were only 900 gr at 13 weeks - thats why I chose milbemax, seemed like a better choice than panacur


Christ I didn't think there were that tiny , my 13 Week BSH are 2.7kg

I used pancur at 4 and 8 weeks then milbremax at 12 weeks it seemed to work better , one litter were also sick when mum was calling so tried to keep them away from her , lucky they were 8 weeks so not so dependant on milky milk

I hope you get it sorted Hun x


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Not all are that small, one of my girls was 1.2 kg when she arrived at 14 weeks - she is actually the smallest of my three now. 

Here is my Esme shortly after she arrived with my Brit girl and one of my first girl next to a shoe to show size


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

I dont want to get my hopes up too much but by yesterday evening after 2 doses of erythromycin two out the three kittens have started eating a reasonable amount, the third a little bit which is something. Today two have eaten fairly well, I have given some sub Qs to the third who has again eaten better than yesterday. Have just weighed them and for the first time in a week they have all gained not lost. No vomiting for over 30 hours either, since first does of erythromycin. We have a long way to go yet, but it could be the first small step in the right direction


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Sounding good. I usually reckon on three doses of an antibiotic or 36 hours to an improvement being a safe indicator you've got it right


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Kittens are now all eating, but Im still not happy as they are not gaining weight - no more losses but no gains either, we are marking time. I am waiting for the results of a blood panel and am going to PALs with my poop sample - I was going to have the animal faeces full panel and an giardia PCR and TF PCR - please tell me if there is anything I have missed, thank you. The kittens have been treated with Erythromycin, will this have any bearing on the poop screen?
Also my vet is suggesting treating with panacur for 5 days for giardia while we are waiting from the poop screen - I know this will give me a head start IF it turns out to be giardia but Im not keen on putting anything into these little already struggling bodies unless they need it ? I will get the blood results later this morning.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Didn't see this until now. Anything show in the blood tests?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Also my vet is suggesting treating with panacur for 5 days for giardia while we are waiting from the poop screen


I'd do it but then I've never had problems with Panacur to put me off. It's one of those wrong if you do and wrong if you don't situations. TF doesn't affect condition or growth because it lives low down in the digestive tract. Giardia hangs out further up and affects the absorption of nutrients so I'd risk treating on a maybe, especially as I'd be worming kittens with it anyway. I'd even go as far as carrying it on beyond the five days IF it appeared to be working.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Blood work was all fine which is good - I did "bite the bullet" yesterday and started all three on a course of panacur - two doses in with no ill effects so far. I spoke to another breeder yesterday who had Devon kittens with similar symptoms many years ago who all came back clear on bloods and a poop screen, she was advised to treat with panacur for 10 days and it resolved her problems. I will await the poop results and meanwhile continue with the panacur even if the screen is clear, and as you also suggest Havoc will continue past the 5 day mark. At least we now have plenty of food going in and no sickness.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Agree to continue Panacur for 10 days, I have found in the past 5 days wasn't enough but the 10 days did the trick.

Hope all is going better today.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Well we still have kittens with little or no weight gains. Two out of three are pooing "normal" poop and the third is a little loose. They are bright but tire easily, all three are eating and drinking.

We are five days into course of panacur. Giardia PCR was negative, but I think I will continue with the panacur for 10 days unless the full screen comes in with something else to treat for, hopefully tomorrow. I never thought I would be disappointed by a negative test, but a least if it had of been giardia I would know what I am dealing with. 

A hand held steamer has now been added to the floor steamer!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm a great fan of nutri-drops for a kitten which needs a bit of a boost. Other than that then patience and crossed fingers seem to be the order of the day.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Thank you, I have nutri drops so will try those too. Rest of poop screen was negative so I think I will just have to be patient - getting far too attached to these three. Absolutely love the Golden grey.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'd second NutriDrops. Seems to give them a good hard push in the apetite department, and I firmly believe they've saved lives in this house before.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

I am very happy to say that despite never finding out the cause of their problems I now have three healthy kittens - one seems to have a few flatulence issues but I expect it will take some time for his gut to return to normal after all he has been through


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

So happy to hear this :thumbup:


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

havoc said:


> So happy to hear this :thumbup:


Thank you, I cant tell you how wonderful it is to see them causing chaos again


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Have been following this thread, so glad all has turned out ok


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Fantastic news xx


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I've been quietly following this, and am so pleased it's cleared up!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

great news Wicket :thumbsup:


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