# Helpucover lifetime insurance



## haireisis (Apr 6, 2010)

For the past week I was researching market for the best and affordable insurance for my puppy. I want the best for her and peace of mind for me.

People saying that I should choose cover that suits me and my puppy best and I should know what I want to insure her for

But guys how can I know what will happen tomorrow and what should I insure for?

Thats why I took all possible illnesses under consideration and come to the conclusion that I should insure her for everything having at the same time small *fixed excess* and min. *6000 vet fee each year* and pay* no more than 30punds a month*. 
Its still a lot of money. but Acacias heath is my responsibility, and if something would happen to her I couldnt afford to pay huge vet fee, or if she gets diabetes I would never be able to pay 60000 each year to keep her healthy..

I decided to go for a lifetime cover.

With helpucover for 25pounds a month Ill have 6000 vet fees cover a year, fixed excess of 80pounds, travel insurance etc

I just been on the phone with customer service and they assured me that there is no hidden charges

(btw. in case of sainsburys 2nd option (which is not a lifetime), lady in custom.service confirmed that there is an excess of 75 pounds and then additional 15% of vet fees for dogs older than 8yrs old, when I asked her why its not mentioned in their policy, she said that it is mentioned in documents that I would receive when I would buy cover from them!! Can they really do that?? Is it even legal??!!!)

My question for you:

Did you ever heard about helpucover or is any of you or your friends insured with them (they are trading style of Pinnacle Insurance plc  if that helps)

I would really like your opinion on them as I couldnt find many customer reviews searching web.
Please let me know if you think there is a better lifetime cover up there that I missed...


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I dont know anything about helpucover, the problem is with most pet insurance is the excess is always so high, we have always insured ours with one that i wouldnt touch again with a bargepole. But when i think we have spent hundreds on £30 here £40 there all becuse its cheaper than the excess over the years that adds up to a lot of money and sure the companies know this. I dont know of any companies that do low excess.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

haireisis said:


> My question for you:
> 
> Did you ever heard about helpucover or is any of you or your friends insured with them (they are trading style of Pinnacle Insurance plc  if that helps)
> 
> ...


Yes, helpucover are a perfectly respectable company.

There are a lot of companies offering lifetime cover. Because of problems I had with insurance in the past I set up a website which will only feature insurers that are, at least, 'reasonable'. By which I mean that they will pay out on claims and won't mess you about.

Have a look at my site (Pet Insurance Compare) and you'll see who offers what. Mouse over the company name and you'll get a synopsis of their policies, what they cover and the amount for which it is covered. Click through to their website and you'll usually be able to find a policy document which gives you all the small print. Yes, it's a pain, that's why I provide a synopsis.

I don't include prices - because that depends on the animal, age, where you live, etc. But you can get an instant quote just by clicking through. In 90% of cases you'll get a discount for applying online. It appears that the most popular - but not necessarily the cheapest - are PetPlan, Marks and Spencer and Animal Friends.

Companies with bad reputations include the Kennel Club and E&L. (We don't feature them - nor do we show Sainsburys). A number of companies 'rebadge' other people's offerings - usually at a higher price. So we don't show HSBC - but we do show Aviva.

This may complicate matters for you - but I hope it helps.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

AlbertRoss said:


> Yes, helpucover are a perfectly respectable company.
> 
> There are a lot of companies offering lifetime cover. Because of problems I had with insurance in the past I set up a website which will only feature insurers that are, at least, 'reasonable'. By which I mean that they will pay out on claims and won't mess you about.
> 
> ...


Dont mention E&L


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Dont mention E&L


Only to put people off going there! :scared:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

AlbertRoss said:


> Only to put people off going there! :scared:


Oh yes your right was was with them


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## JackRussell65 (Apr 14, 2012)

I know Helpucover!! They pay out quick but at what price!! I am with helpucover and my premium goes up on the drop of the hat I am now paying nearly 60 pounds a month per my 10 years old Jack Russell. They say the age of the dog and the vets prices in the area affects the price. Surely they shoud base the policy according to breeds. Jack Russell dogs has a reputation for being healthy with a long lifespan, They also tend to have fewer of the genetic diseases that are seen in extensively inbred purebred dogs. For them a dog is a dog. No distinction on breed. What do they care they there to rake in money!!
Does anybody know if they have to obey rules or guidlines to base their prices and policies on or they just wake up in the morning in a bad mood and decide to up the prices?


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

JackRussell65 said:


> I know Helpucover!! They pay out quick but at what price!! I am with helpucover and my premium goes up on the drop of the hat I am now paying nearly 60 pounds a month per my 10 years old Jack Russell. They say the age of the dog and the vets prices in the area affects the price. Surely they shoud base the policy according to breeds. Jack Russell dogs has a reputation for being healthy with a long lifespan, They also tend to have fewer of the genetic diseases that are seen in extensively inbred purebred dogs. For them a dog is a dog. No distinction on breed. What do they care they there to rake in money!!
> Does anybody know if they have to obey rules or guidlines to base their prices and policies on or they just wake up in the morning in a bad mood and decide to up the prices?


They base their premiums on: Breed, sex, age, previous history and where you live. Basically. Any dog/cat over 8 years will get increased premiums because the majority of illness happens to older animals. In many companies the excess payable goes up as well. Each company has its own calculations based on actuarial evidence of their experience with their own and other companies previous payments.

They look across the board,so they will consider all Jack Russells, all 10 year old dogs, etc. and calculate their risk based on hard evidence. That evidence may not gel with your experience but they will be looking at thousands of cases.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Why do you not mention Sainsburys?


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> Why do you not mention Sainsburys?


We have Dillon insured with Sainsbury's, we have there high priced one as he is big dog the treatment costs are higher.

The only thing is who ever you have it goes up every year, When we lot Amber her ins. cost more than the car's ins.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> Why do you not mention Sainsburys?


Because Sainsburys advertising implies that their cover is 'Lifetime'. It isn't. It's a 'per condition' cover. I think it's dishonest and I've already come across people in this forum who thought they were getting a lifetime cover, only to be somewhat shocked and out-of-pocket when they discovered the truth. I used to show Sainsburys and I'll put them back when they change their advertising to reflect their _real_ offering. I question whether any company that is dishonest in its adverts will be all that honest in dealing with claims.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

AlbertRoss said:


> Because Sainsburys advertising implies that their cover is 'Lifetime'. It isn't. It's a 'per condition' cover. I think it's dishonest and I've already come across people in this forum who thought they were getting a lifetime cover, only to be somewhat shocked and out-of-pocket when they discovered the truth. I used to show Sainsburys and I'll put them back when they change their advertising to reflect their _real_ offering. I question whether any company that is dishonest in its adverts will be all that honest in dealing with claims.


 Ok thanks for your reply.
Both of mine are with Sainsbury's but not had to claim but know people who have with no problems.

I was fully aware that it was per condition when I took mine out, but agree that Insurers should make their advertising clearer to avoid confusion.


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## bellissima65 (Apr 4, 2014)

I am with pinnacle which is helpucover. My dog is now 13 and the monthly premium keeps going higher and higher each year. They are reasonable when your pet is young and not so vulnerable to ilness but as soon as they hit the age of 8 helpucover starts putting the monthly premium up every year. for example, my jack russell is now 13 and since i paid 76 odd pound a month last year, this year the premium is gone up to 100 pound a month. they are a rip off!! Be aware dont fall into the trap!!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Personally would recommend Petplan! they are more expensive however have had no problems with paying up and I'm my pups first 18 months claimed thousands


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## Sally Hayward (Apr 14, 2013)

Our recent Pet Insurance Premium Survey showed that all companies have different strategies with regard to premium prices .. and although you might think that they use their data to assess risk by breed/age .. many of them use extensive banding systems and give the same quotes for many different breeds which is interesting given the fact they must all have masses of data they can use to provide sophisticated quotes. They also often have different ideas of which breeds / ages pose the most risk.

Returning to the subject of Helpucover... you should be aware that they currently quite expensive for older pets... as you have to pay 25% of the costs for pets over 8.

You will find a full review and analysis of the Helpucover Premier policy here... 

Alternatively this is a full list of all lifetime pet insurance policies available (to anyone) in the UK.

I hope this is helpful.


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## vivien (Jul 20, 2009)

I have gone with Co-op for Gemma and went with more than for Purdy when I got her. My 4 week free insurance is from kennel club. Luckily I have not had to use Gemma's 4 week free insurance so I have had the co-op running at the time I picked Gemma up on the 21st of march co-op has the same underwriters as petplan and is 1/2 the price. 

Viv xx


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Sally Hayward said:


> ... all companies have different strategies with regard to premium prices .. and although you might think that they use their data to assess risk by breed/age .. many of them use extensive banding systems and give the same quotes for many different breeds which is interesting given the fact they must all have masses of data they can use to provide sophisticated quotes. They also often have different ideas of which breeds / ages pose the most risk.


That's mainly because there are no consolidated data sources for information about breed/sex/age/cause of death of pets in the UK. In some Scandinavian countries vets have to provide that information to a centralised database which all insurers can use. In the UK each company uses its own or, where it is part of a group, uses the information provided across the group. It's also why small pet insurance companies, or new ones, or ones that are an offshoot of other financial operations including general insurers, tend to pose a problem as insurers. They simply don't have sufficient overall risk awareness and find that they've insured breeds with certain problems at a premium that is too low to be sustainable. That, in turn, sometimes means massive premium hikes.

A lot of the companies making offers therefore simply front for a particular underwriting organisation or use a 'front end' service. At present RSA (Royal Sun Alliance) are becoming used by a fair number of companies with others looking at using them. Because they are behind several 'name' offerings they have data from all those companies and can tailor their premiums to reflect their risk.

In the UK the biggest specialist pet insurer is Pet Plan and, although considered to be expensive, their premiums are most likely to reflect overall risk. Agria (who are fronted by the Kennel Club and the GCCF) are the biggest Scandinavian pet insurer and have statistics gathered in Northern Europe to rely on.

Irrespective of what the offers appear to be you would be well advised to stay away from non-specialists unless they are household names. Even then, a change of underwriter can give you a huge premium increase (as John Lewis customers found out this year).


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## Sally Hayward (Apr 14, 2013)

Interesting points above... would be interested in your thoughts Albert on why the Co-op pet insurance is so much cheaper than Petplan... same underwriters... very similar policy... but our pet insurance survey which got 20 quotes from each pet insurance provider had the following average quotes...

Co-op Select Plus £5K Lifetime ... average premium £17.94
Petplan Covered for Life Classic £4K ... average premium £29.07


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Sally Hayward said:


> Interesting points above... would be interested in your thoughts Albert on why the Co-op pet insurance is so much cheaper than Petplan... same underwriters... very similar policy... but our pet insurance survey which got 20 quotes from each pet insurance provider had the following average quotes...
> 
> Co-op Select Plus £5K Lifetime ... average premium £17.94
> Petplan Covered for Life Classic £4K ... average premium £29.07


Probably for exactly the same reasons that other companies that share the same underwriters (and, in some cases the same administrators) have wildly different quotes. (See below for the discussion on average quotes).

But Pet Plan also make large donations to animal charities (£650,000 plus so far this year) and fund veterinary research. They also have an immense promotional campaign which includes commission payments - which is why the vast majority of vets in the UK will recommend Pet Plan and why breeders give the 4 week freebie. All that has to be paid for. The Coop, on the other hand, does very little promotional work on its policies and what is does do is mainly via its banking services.

I also think there's some very clever marketing going on by Allianz. Pet Plan are big and have an excellent reputation. They are recommended by vets and by their 'breeder plan'. They are also, without question, fairly expensive. But, they do pay out and treat their customers well.

On the other hand, if you can't afford them, there's always the cheaper version with less cover... the Coop. Either way, they mop up a lot of the market.

I would add that I'd distrust the concept of the 'average' quote you cite because the variations in quote won't reflect all the possible underlying variations for each company. Although both are run by Allianz and both have access to the same overall data they will, individually, have different claims made on their own policies and that will reflect back in premiums charged. They are separate profit centres within the Allianz umbrella. So, if, for example, the Coop has very few claims for illness in Yorkshire Terriers in Wakefield but Pet Plan has a lot of claims then Pet Plan will perceive the risk to be higher and put up their premiums. The underlying statistics for Yorkshire terriers in Wakefield that Allianz has will show an average amount of claims. Unless you take quotes for all breeds of dog, of both sexes, in every UK postcode, to produce your average your numbers are statistically unreliable.

There are 124 postal areas, 3.064 postal districts, 11.598 postal sectors and 1.780.000 postal units (individual postcodes) in the UK. There are 157 recognised dog breeds. Even at a district level it would mean that there are 900,000 plus possibilities. A sample of 20 is, I'm afraid, statistically very unreliable (although, to be fair, it's a start  ) Most underwriters will be looking at the sector level or greater. Equally, where companies share administrators they may be able to share claim information (suitably adjusted for anonymity) which may affect their premium quotations.

I have resolutely refused to put any kind of pricing information on my websites because the 'guide' prices quoted by companies rarely reflect reality. Time after time there have been people coming on to this forum saying they would like opinions on quoted premiums and then getting dismayed by other people saying they got cheaper premiums - but they aren't quoting premiums for the same breeds, of the same age, in the same postcode for the same policy. It's why companies like Direct Line won't appear on price comparison sites but do appear on mine because I'm only interested in what their policy offers and how good they are at satisfying the customer when a claim is made. At the end of the day (to overuse a phrase) the only things that matter are a) does the policy cover the requirement and b) will the insurer pay out. It's great if you can find the exact same cover cheaper but it's very, very rare.


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## Sally Hayward (Apr 14, 2013)

AlbertRoss said:


> Probably for exactly the same reasons that other companies that share the same underwriters (and, in some cases the same administrators) have wildly different quotes. (See below for the discussion on average quotes).
> 
> But Pet Plan also make large donations to animal charities (£650,000 plus so far this year) and fund veterinary research. They also have an immense promotional campaign which includes commission payments - which is why the vast majority of vets in the UK will recommend Pet Plan and why breeders give the 4 week freebie. All that has to be paid for. The Coop, on the other hand, does very little promotional work on its policies and what is does do is mainly via its banking services.
> 
> ...


Really interesting thoughts about Petplan.. but I have question.. is the the cover offered by the Co-op £5K policy really less than that offered by the Petplan £4k policy? Terms seem pretty similar (in many cases identical which is not surprising considering they are both underwritten by Allianz)... or are policyholders really just paying for Petplan's marketing, research funding and charitable donations?

Was also really interested in your thoughts on how the premiums are calculated as I thought very much the same until I did the price survey which was a real eye opener. :wink5:


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Sally Hayward said:


> Really interesting thoughts about Petplan.. but I have question.. is the the cover offered by the Co-op £5K policy really less than that offered by the Petplan £4k policy? Terms seem pretty similar (in many cases identical which is not surprising considering they are both underwritten by Allianz)... or are policyholders really just paying for Petplan's marketing, research funding and charitable donations?
> 
> Was also really interested in your thoughts on how the premiums are calculated as I thought very much the same until I did the price survey which was a real eye opener. :wink5:


The policies are (to all intents and purposes) identical, other than level of cover. So, yes, Pet Plan holders do pay for all the extras - broadly, it's all marketing. There's also a profit calculation - but the Coop business model is very different, which is why the whole Coop operation is in such a dire place at present. It is very, very likely that the Coop bank will have to be taken over and that its whole finance arm will be restructured because it simply cannot go on as it is. I don't see Allianz pulling out of offering Coop pet insurance but they may well bring it back into the overall fold e.g. Pet Plan, which is directly owned by Allianz.

My knowledge of how premiums are calculated comes from working for around 40 years in the City of London and a lot of in depth research with pet insurance companies. My motivation in doing what I do now is simply to try and stop people getting burned by bad companies (as I have been when I was foolish enough to misunderstand the small print on the Agria policy when I continued a freebie).


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