# I think my goldfish has terrible fin rot......



## Ariel

Hey new to this and very worried about my fish!
He is showing terrible signs of fin rot. Clamped fins and his tail is shredded and i think he has got a secondary fungal infection as well. 
I was away for two weeks and my dad was looking after my fish and didn't notice his deterioration when i came back i noticed Vic (fish name after Vic Rattlehead,, iv had him for about a year and a half with no problems) was staying on the bottom of the tank. This was on the 30th of July. I did a 3/4 water change and treated the water with Gold Disease Safe.
Then did a full water change yesterday because the quality of the water was not improving. Treated the water again. The redness around the tail has gone down slightly and it is still eating.
It is in a tank on its own (its one of the elite kits you get the weird shaped tapered tanks, 15inches long at the front, 11inches at the back, width is 8 1/2 inches and 10 inch deep). The tank uses an elite mini filter. Iv got it on low because the suction was too strong for my sick fish. 
Is there anything that could help Vic more than i am already doing? i feel so bad he has got into such a state and i don't feel like i can do much.
Any advice would be very much appreciated!


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## Ariel

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=31544849&id=1139877693&ref=album&fbid=1555851173101

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=31544847&id=1139877693&ref=album&fbid=1555849933070

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...55850533085_1139877693_31544848_6886257_n.jpg

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=31544848&id=1139877693&ref=album&fbid=1555850533085

I hope you can get to these and they help.


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## Guest

Would it be possible for you to upload the other images through Photobucket or Imageshack and copy and paste the IMG codes? I don't have a Facebook account so I can't see three of the photos.

Poor water quality is the main cause of disease. This can be due to overstocking, overfeeding, inadequate filtration and lack of maintenance.

Going by the photo I can see, the fish is indeed suffering from what appears to be quite advanced finrot. Finrot is a bacterial infection which involves pathogenic bacteria including _Aeromonas, Pseudomonas or Flexibacter_, which are present in all bodies of water.

To tell you the truth, the tank is too small for a goldfish. Common goldfish in particular can grow very large (upto 30cm/12"), produce an incredible amount of waste, and should really be kept in a pond. Going by the dimensions you've provided, the tank holds around 15-20 litres, which isn't big enough.

Do you have a liquid test kit? If so, could you provide the test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If you don't have one, I'd suggest buying one immediately from an aquatic store.

The only way to successfully treat this fully is to move the fish into larger quarters indefinitely. You need to buy a larger tank, and obtain some mature filter media from another fishkeeper. It is vital that water quality is improved to reduce stress on the fish. In such a small volume of water, toxic ammonia (a by-product of fish metabolism which is excreted via the gills) could be accumulating within the space of a few hours. Ammonia can be lethal even in small concentrations and its toxicity in water increases with pH and temperature.

I would also suggest disposing of the treatment you are currently using. Broad-spectrum medications aren't particularly effective. eSHA labs 2000 is a powerful anti-finrot treatment, and I've had a lot of success using this product.

If you manage to sort out the problem now, the odds of the fish surviving are rather good (about 60:40 actually). Keep an eye open for any secondary fungal infections. Don't bother feeding the fish for a while, and focus on keeping water quality at satisfactory levels. This means a stable pH, a zero reading of ammonia and nitrite and a low level of nitrate.


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## Ariel

thank you so much for such a detailed and helpful response. I am really beginning to hate large chain pet stores. No one has ever mentioned about that tank being too small before and was sold to me as being able to hold 2 large goldfish or 3 small ones. I dont have anything bigger to put it in now and don't have the money for a new tank....is there anything you can suggest for the time being?
I will get to my closest pet shop and get specific treatment and water testing kit.
I feel so bad, Im really upset by the whole thing I had no idea about the size of the tank being an issue for 
one lone fish you think all the leaflets and stuff they give you tell you everything.
Thank you so much again!
you have been very helpful.


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## Carla-Jade

Chillinator said:


> Do you have a liquid test kit? If so, could you provide the test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If you don't have one, I'd suggest buying one immediately from an aquatic store.
> 
> I would also suggest disposing of the treatment you are currently using. Broad-spectrum medications aren't particularly effective. eSHA labs 2000 is a powerful anti-finrot treatment, and I've had a lot of success using this product.
> 
> .


thatg was the kit i mentioned in the other thread & the medicine. i would isolate him so the others are not being treated also as they may become immune to the medicine. do you have some aquarium slat to help perk him up a little? might damage the fresh plants if you have them but thats less important than helpig him feel better!


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## Guest

Ariel said:


> thank you so much for such a detailed and helpful response. I am really beginning to hate large chain pet stores. No one has ever mentioned about that tank being too small before and was sold to me as being able to hold 2 large goldfish or 3 small ones. I dont have anything bigger to put it in now and don't have the money for a new tank....is there anything you can suggest for the time being?
> I will get to my closest pet shop and get specific treatment and water testing kit.
> I feel so bad, Im really upset by the whole thing I had no idea about the size of the tank being an issue for
> one lone fish you think all the leaflets and stuff they give you tell you everything.
> Thank you so much again!
> you have been very helpful.


Bad advice is rife amongst large chain stores, who tend to put profits before the welfare of the animals they are selling. Free leaflets are laid out to catch out customers and they are a sneaky way to advertise products which are next to useless. The descriptions put onto aquarium packaging are nearly always misleading, but unfortunately noone can put a stop to it. A good forum (like this one) is the most reliable source of info.

If you have a garden centre nearby, a large plastic container (preferably new) would do until you can raise funds for a larger tank. Ask around on a few other fishkeeping forums to track down a filter, a used Eheim classic external model (these are going for about £30) would do. While you won't be able to cycle it, plenty of water changes and minimal feeding will keep ammonia and nitrite in check.


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## batty_rat

Hey sweetie,

We got our tank from [email protected] for about £30 (without the lid, add about £10 for the lid) it's L30"xW1ftxH15" the make is Clear Seal and has a gold sea horse on the rim.

As I know your going there tonight. Darn if only your dad told you sooner, you could have come to riverside aqauria, as they will be alot more helpful than the people at [email protected] as Roddy's mum has just bought some fish that have come down with fin rot as well and gave her a rubbish medicine to give them. They were quite pushy with her. 

Hope you find what your looking for


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## Ariel

aquarium slat? The only place i can go at the last minute now is Pets at home. Would they have this and do they stock decent treatments? 
Im so worried i am going to do the wrong thing.
I am also going to look at decent sized tanks like my other.
There are no live plants in my aqarium. And it is the only fish in the tank so no other fish will be effected.
I just feel so bad that because of misinformation iv put my fish through undue stress and illness from which it may not recover.


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## Ariel

There is clearly a secondary fungal infection. How do i treat both safley?


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## Ariel

this is the tank poor wee vic is in. Stupid Acorn pet stores!

Cool 21ltr Blue Goldfish Aquarium Kit by Marina | Pets at Home


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## batty_rat

I have no idea, as Roddy is asleep I can't ask him cos he deals with the fish, and I would be able to give you the names of the stuff we used when all our tropical fishies were all getting everythng left right and center. I was brIght green stuff and then we'd put red stuff in after the green stuff cleared up, which looked kinda creepy 

But i cannot remember the name of the make for the life of me. We put it in once a week three weeks on a row, and that helped clear up whatever we had in the tank. But since having the goldfish in that tank ive never ever had a problem. Talos split his tail the other week and i thought it was the beginnings of fin rot but it healed itself in a few days. 

Hope your wee fishy gets well x

ill go see if roddy wants to get up as he's sleeping off night shift lol


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## Carla-Jade

Ariel said:


> aquarium slat? The only place i can go at the last minute now is Pets at home. Would they have this and do they stock decent treatments?
> Im so worried i am going to do the wrong thing.
> I am also going to look at decent sized tanks like my other.
> There are no live plants in my aqarium. And it is the only fish in the tank so no other fish will be effected.
> I just feel so bad that because of misinformation iv put my fish through undue stress and illness from which it may not recover.


yep [email protected] sell the squarium salt- it comes in a cardboard 'box' its blue with white writing. i cant see it on the website to show you. they do stock good treatments- a special one jsut for fin rot & the tester kits too but they are about £35 jsut for the kit :scared: tell the staff what it is you have to get- thy are ussually very good with helping out- do they have an aquarium 'part' to the shop[ or is it integratged with the rest of the shop?


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## Guest

If you can get hold of some eSHA 2000, this will treat fungal infections as well as finrot.

Just something I'd like to point out. If the finrot spreads and becomes very advanced, you may have to get a pair of sterilized surgical scissors and very carefully trim away the necrotic tissue.

As for aquarium salt. This is a highly effective anti-fungal treatment, but I would reserve it for advanced cases. A saltwater bath consisting of a 1.5-3.0% salt solution can kill primary causes of fungus including Saprolegnia. However, it must be used with great caution, fish must not be exposed to salt solutions for longer than 10-15 minutes; and then placed into a container of clean dechlorinated water.

*DO NOT use salts containing anti-caking agents such as Sodium ferrocyanide. When exposed to sunlight, this substance can release Hydrogen cyanide gas.*


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## Ariel

they do have quite a big separate aquarium fish section. Iv just had bad experiences and have not heard reliable thing about them so im worried that i am taking the correct advice etc.
Thank you so much for your help!
Im going to look for anew tank etc tonight because this tank i have now has given me no end of problems but hardly anything I have read mentions the fact that the tank itself could be causing the most of the problems.
Thank again! everyone has been so helpful!


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## Guest

Ariel said:


> but hardly anything I have read mentions the fact that the tank itself could be causing the most of the problems.


I'm assuming this is what you've found in leaflets? Unfortunately, this is just another thing people fail to tell you.

The smaller the body of water, the less stable it becomes chemically. On a similar note, toxic metabolic waste products (which are invisible when dissolved in water, and they won't give off a pungent smell unless in exceedingly high concentrations) build up very rapidly in small volumes of water. This is especially so when you have messy species like goldfish.


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## batty_rat

We have a water testing kit if you need it? Are you coming by any time soon?


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## Ariel

yeh there was no mention of tank size being a problem especially since it came with a filter etc i always under stock my tanks because i am aware of water quality being a big issue when keeping healthy fish. however in the tank i haves case it seams whatever i do im going to have a problem. I feel rather stupid! thank you so much for informing me though.
Unfortunately i am not planning on coming through in the next couple of days thank you though!


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## Ariel

so what is the smallest dimensions/size of tank you would recommend that would be good to sustain one or two gold fish and would not be detrimental to their health?
Im obviously going to be looking for a new one tonight


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## Carla-Jade

very best of luck with poor fishy... one of my guys lost an eye- literally just vanished! no signs of a fight or scraping it- must have jsut been sucked right out but has had no ill effects from it! they can get over stuff & be happy for long time after. ive had 2 cat fish & they are id say at least about 6 years old!


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## batty_rat

Carla-Jade said:


> very best of luck with poor fishy... one of my guys lost an eye- literally just vanished! no signs of a fight or scraping it- must have jsut been sucked right out but has had no ill effects from it! they can get over stuff & be happy for long time after. ive had 2 cat fish & they are id say at least about 6 years old!


I heard that fish can eat each others eyes...doesn't sound particularly pleasant :scared:

I would get one a bit larger than the size you would like to go for, so you can add more fish (as I know you will, you love fishies so much!) Try looking for one my size as that fits four prefectly  and they are starting to grow alot as well, and big fish are prettty fish


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## Carla-Jade

batty_rat said:


> I heard that fish can eat each others eyes...doesn't sound particularly pleasant :scared:
> 
> I would get one a bit larger than the size you would like to go for, so you can add more fish (as I know you will, you love fishies so much!) Try looking for one my size as that fits four prefectly  and they are starting to grow alot as well, and big fish are prettty fish


poor guy! seemed not to notice though which is good poor little guy! i have a 260L tank as well as 2 small ones... good times!


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## Guest

Ariel said:


> so what is the smallest dimensions/size of tank you would recommend that would be good to sustain one or two gold fish and would not be detrimental to their health?
> Im obviously going to be looking for a new one tonight


For specimens upto six inches in length, a 120 x 38 x 38cm would be the _ideal _tank. However, for anything bigger upto 30cm/12", I would be looking at a 150 x 60 x 60cm tank or a pond.


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## Ariel

well a bit of good news. I got specific fin rot and fungal treatment and aquarium salt along with better water conditioner that helps sick fish recover. 
He seems to be more lively.
His fins are not as clamped any more. 
The veins and redness is definitely going down. 
He is swimming a bit better with a bit more oomf!
He is using hi gills a bit more too.
Still on the bottom of the tank so it is early days but things are looking better.
Thank you so much for all your help everyone. Especially about the aquarium salt suggestion in al my concern and panic I completely forgot about the stuff!
So thank you! great first experience!


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## Carla-Jade

Ariel said:


> well a bit of good news. I got specific fin rot and fungal treatment and aquarium salt along with better water conditioner that helps sick fish recover.
> He seems to be more lively.
> His fins are not as clamped any more.
> The veins and redness is definitely going down.
> He is swimming a bit better with a bit more oomf!
> He is using hi gills a bit more too.
> Still on the bottom of the tank so it is early days but things are looking better.
> Thank you so much for all your help everyone. Especially about the aquarium salt suggestion in al my concern and panic I completely forgot about the stuff!
> So thank you! great first experience!


so pleased your little one is hopefully getting on the roadto recovery :thumbup:


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## Ariel

Carla-Jade said:


> very best of luck with poor fishy... one of my guys lost an eye- literally just vanished! no signs of a fight or scraping it- must have just been sucked right out but has had no ill effects from it! they can get over stuff & be happy for long time after. ive had 2 cat fish & they are id say at least about 6 years old!


wow that's amazing! I have never had any injuries or incidents like that before with my fish. I'm glad to hear all is well!
Thank you for having faith!


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## Ariel

Chillinator said:


> If you can get hold of some eSHA 2000, this will treat fungal infections as well as finrot.
> 
> Just something I'd like to point out. If the finrot spreads and becomes very advanced, you may have to get a pair of sterilized surgical scissors and very carefully trim away the necrotic tissue.
> 
> As for aquarium salt. This is a highly effective anti-fungal treatment, but I would reserve it for advanced cases. A saltwater bath consisting of a 1.5-3.0% salt solution can kill primary causes of fungus including Saprolegnia. However, it must be used with great caution, fish must not be exposed to salt solutions for longer than 10-15 minutes; and then placed into a container of clean dechlorinated water.
> 
> *DO NOT use salts containing anti-caking agents such as Sodium ferrocyanide. When exposed to sunlight, this substance can release Hydrogen cyanide gas.*


Really? id be so scarred doing that the poor wee thing is only 2 inches long. How advanced would you say it would need to be?
Vic's is bad but looks especially worse with the secondary fungal infection. Though the veins and redness that were present seem to have gone down over the past couple of days.
He has kind of plateaued over night.


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## Guest

Usually, trimming away necrotic tissue from the fins is reserved for when there is nearly nothing left. This is especially so for the peduncle area around the caudal fin. You still have to use a chemical treatment though, as the removal process is just a way to buy more time.

The fins are primarily just soft flesh, there are no blood vessels running through most of the flesh so there would be no haemorrhaging.

I've tried this once in a very bad case of finrot affecting a large Tench. Very little harm is done to the fish, and the fins usually start to re-grow (providing water conditions are optimal) within several months.


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## Carla-Jade

Ariel said:


> wow that's amazing! I have never had any injuries or incidents like that before with my fish. I'm glad to hear all is well!
> Thank you for having faith!


yeha it was a huge shock! at first poor little fella swam more to 1 side cos he was a bit unsure what had jsut happened but hes A-OK now! por him. love watching them swim & play- i have big boys (XL Black Moor is one of the biggest) he is hugeeeee, bigger than my fist!


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## Ariel

Carla-Jade said:


> yeha it was a huge shock! at first poor little fella swam more to 1 side cos he was a bit unsure what had jsut happened but hes A-OK now! por him. love watching them swim & play- i have big boys (XL Black Moor is one of the biggest) he is hugeeeee, bigger than my fist!


Aw amazing! Mine are all relatively small at the moment. 3 of them in my big tank i have only had for about 2 months but are thriving! the one that is ill is about a year and half or so. I am hopping I will be getting the funds for a new tank so they will all have even more room to grow.


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## Ariel

okay i have no idea if my fish is now deteriorating or getting better or what. He is not as lively, he will sit stationary and then suddenly start swimming about quite lively but is struggling. He is coated in a slimy bubble looking coating from his tail half way up his body. it's really upsetting me seeing him this way but I don't know what else I can do.


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## Carla-Jade

could it be white spot??


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## Ariel

Its just died. This is the 8th fish iv lost to fin rot in my fish keeping time and I have never had success.
Thank you everyone for your help!


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## Carla-Jade

dont flush him- sometimes they apprea dead but they are still alive


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## Ariel

he is not flushed don't worry still in the tank. I just have not seen his gills or mouth move in an hour and Im not holding out much hope.


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## Carla-Jade

thats so sad poor little guy. is the white stuff cotton-y? like cotton wool stuck to him?

my guys are way to big to flush, they would block the toilet :lol:


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## Ariel

i was like slime that accumulated through the day. Like a caccoon kinda like you see with parrot fish. He floating belly up at the top of the tank non responsive. I think he has gone.


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## Carla-Jade

Ariel said:


> i was like slime that accumulated through the day. Like a caccoon kinda like you see with parrot fish. He floating belly up at the top of the tank non responsive. I think he has gone.


 so sorry it does sound bad


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## Ariel

Its all good iv calmed down. I had had him for a while. Clearly the quality of fish is falling. I had two fish in one of those tiny round plastic bowls when I was like 8. No filter no nothing and never had one problem with them. And one of them passed away 2 years ago and the other passed away just last year. They had lost all pigmentation and so were white almost see through they were so old. 
Think am going to start investigating other more private businesses and aquariums for fishes.


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## Guest

Most goldfish sold in UK aquatic stores originate from fish farms in the Far East (Singapore springs to mind, where the ornamental aquatics trade is a big business) where the fish are bred in huge numbers.

The quality of the fish varies, but one of the main problems is that suppliers and aquatic stores fail to pick out poor specimens and don't exercise correct quarantine protocols. 

Genetic problems are also a big problem for the aquatics trade, however it is impossible to avoid the occasional inbred specimen.


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