# Kc reg'd and un registered pups form same litter



## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

ok having a discussion with someone re cost of their pups. unregistered are £350 cheaper than registered, when I asked them how they could justify such a difference , when it costs £15 to register a pup, they said it was because you'd have their blood lines if you wanted to breed ,show or stud the pup !!


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

I imagine, they'd then want more money, to lift the breeding endorsement.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I don't understand why someone would not register when they can.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Where you have a breeder who shows and may be well known in showing circles, if they have a litter where a pup, for one reason or other doesn't really meet the Breed Standard, they will leave that pup unregistered.

If they were to register the puppy, the new owners then would have the option to show that puppy and most breeders who show wouldn't want a pup appearing in the show ring, with their affix, when it didn't meet the Breed Standard. x


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Sweety said:


> Where you have a breeder who shows and may be well known in showing circles, if they have a litter where a pup, for one reason or other doesn't really meet the Breed Standard, they will leave that pup unregistered.
> 
> If they were to register the puppy, the new owners then would have the option to show that puppy and most breeders who show wouldn't want a pup appearing in the show ring, with their affix, when it didn't meet the Breed Standard. x


Quite true, but at right weeks or whenever they go it's impossible to say what will end up as show quality or not. I know a top breeder of pointer - she kept one promising dog, but at seven months his head was all wrong.

If it's for the reason you suggest it's almost a guarantee that a pup is show quality, and no good breeder would be doing that.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I know of someone that charged £500 more for a registered pup - and that was 10 years ago or longer. She was a crook.


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

There was a litter of Chi's on petbay, there were 2 pups - ''without KC £650 (PET HOMES) with KC £750''

I questioned as to why the registered pups are £100 extra when it costs £15 to register pups with KC and she replied with something along the lines of it actually being £100 cheaper for 'pet homes'... admin removed my post LOL


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

In most cases it's just a matter of making more money off the puppies :frown2:. I wouldn't buy from that kind of breeder, I'd want all the litter registered


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> A touchy subject Dexter as many KC breeders are using loopholes in the Clubs flawed breeder scheme to their advantage, such as with holding papers for a pup they sell as a pet (no papers) so they can continually breed the same female but register her litters under the papers they have kept from past puppies that got sold as pets. Have a read on my website
> RSPCA and the KC
> Buying a Puppy
> 
> I am a Chihuahua breeder but my articles relate to any breed


I am very concerned reading the articles you posted. Presumably the reference to not registering any of your pups with the KC is because you are overbreeding your bitches and therefore can't? What other excuse could an intelligent reputable breeder have?

Coupled with the adverts about 'teacup' chihuahuas the whole site gives me cause for concern.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

KC registration is just what it says - an entry onto a register. It is not a guarantee of anything because the only criteria for registration is that both sire and dam are pedigrees. The KC don't pretend it is anything else - if people choose to believe KC registration gives some sort of guarantee then that is their fault, not the KC's. All it takes is a few minutes' research to find that out. And, except for one or two excellent breed sites, in the UK there is nothing else comparable to the KC register where prospective buyers can look up the lines - and the health tests of dogs in those lines - for any pup they are thinking of buying.

There are a heck of a lot of good breeders out there, but there are also a heck of a lot of charlatans - and any breeder who offers both registered and unregistered pups from the same litter is, imo, a charlatan. Similarly anyone who charges more for registered dogs is just trying to make a fast buck and is not to be trusted. There is absolutely no reason - other than money-grabbing - to charge different prices for pups from the same litter. Neither would I trust anyone selling a pedigree litter that was not registered - no matter what excuse they come up with, there is no better system at the moment for checking the lines of a dog than KC registration.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

People will buy the unregistered ones because some seem convinced just a pet is somehow inferior so doesn't need health tests or kc reg. Those that do want a registered puppy will pay the extra or be smart enough to go to a good breeder. It's win win for the breeder either way.

They can't be registered if one of the parents has endorsements, the mum is too young or too old or has had too many litters already.


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

No teacup generally means taking an already tiny breed, breeding it even smaller, although there are exceptions of course I've seen people trying to breed all sizes of dogs down tiny, and charging ridiculous amounts of money for what generally amounts to unhealthy dogs.


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I wasn't saying your dogs are unhealthy or that very small dogs automatically are, just that most people breeding teacups don't care about health just money. Same as someone breeding king dobermanns or oversized german shepherds.

If I wanted a kc reg breed a registered puppy would be the starting point for me. But of course it's in no way a guarantee of health.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Unfortunately the KC registration system means nothing if the Breeders are exploiting the loopholes. Although the KC is not a fault regarding what information is submitted to them, they are at fault by not water tighting the whole registration system. I have had show breeders here that have bought puppies from me (non KC) and then i have found out they have registered them as one of their own puppies just so they have a KC number to enter shows.


I wiould much rather look at the KC register when buying a pup than trust the word of a breeder who could be telling me any kind of lies. Looking at the lines and the health tests that have been performed on the dogs within those lines tells me a lot more than a superfluous "one year health guarantee" (how on earth do you enforce that? Offer to take the pup back or give me my money back if the pup becomes ill during the first year?) or a "certificate of health from a vet" (so the pup appeared healthy on the day he examined it - doesn't mean that something won't develop the very next day). Quite frankly, if I see any breeder - KC registered or not - offering those two things alarm bells start to ring straight away.


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Bonnie 12 years ago cost £450 but she was fully registered pup with good parentage and good hip/elbow scores on the parents.
Amber 9 years ago we paid £250 unregistered.


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> That is only your interpretation, i have been breeding Chihuahuas for over 22 years and my customers have always understood the description and knows that it is not a diversity of the breed. Size has no relation to health what so ever, i own a Chihuahua that is one of the smallest dogs in the world, she has appeared on various TV programs and been in many newspapers but has never seen the inside of a vets.


There is no such thing as 'teacup' in any breed. It's a phrase coined by some Breeders to describe a very small example of the Breed.

If your bitch is "one of the smallest dogs in the world", do we assume that she doesn't conform to the Breed Standard for Chihuahuas?

I'm sorry, it sounds to me as though you are simply breeding what you think will sell, whether it conforms to the Standard for the Breed or not.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> That is very True and i'm glad you can see the point i am making here, many breeders are exploiting loopholes, misunderstood phrases and the lack of public knowledge just for financial gain. :thumbup1:


There are terrible kc breeders and good pet breeders but I would avoid anyone breeding teacups chis can be as small as 2lbs and still be standard can't they? So there's no need for a special name as surely you wouldn't need a dog any smaller than that.


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> So if you purchased a puppy and 6 months later it died from an underlying inherent disorder you think by me giving the customer their money back is a bad idea? Again you only see what you want to see.


I would rather you spent your time health testing and being a member of a bonafide breed club to try to eradicate genetic problems in your breed. I want a pup that's going to live a long healthy life. I think I'd run a mile from your guarantee.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> So if you purchased a puppy and 6 months later it died from an underlying inherent disorder you think by me giving the customer their money back is a bad idea? Again you only see what you want to see.


No, I would rather have looked at the pup's lines in an independent register to make as sure as possible that there was no underlying inherent disorder, rather than grow to love a puppy and then have it die from a disorder that was there all the time.

A year's health guarantee and a vet's health certificate are no substitute for looking at the lines and their health tests/health issuies. They wouldn't have told me about any underlying disorder - they would only have given me a false sense of security and loads of heartbreak. Money back is no substitute for an animal you have grown to love.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> What you are missing here is THIS POINT "conforms to the Breed Standard"... for who? The show judges, I work hard to ensure my puppies become the perfect new family member and not to please some judge. Temperament and Character for me always over shadows looks.


It sounds like your dogs wouldn't conform to the breed standard as they are too small. The breed standard is there to ensure only healthy dogs are rewarded and should be bred from. No wonder you don't like the KC!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> What you are missing here is THIS POINT "conforms to the Breed Standard"... for who? The show judges, I work hard to ensure my puppies become the perfect new family member and not to please some judge. Temperament and Character for me always over shadows looks.


I don't think I'm missing anything. Why can't you breed for temperament and an excellent example of the breed?

I used to. You can have both you know.

Why don't you register your pups? Are you breeding from unregistered stock?


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> It is not a name but a description and that is exactly what i explain on my website. Why do the KC use the name "Toy", it's just a name and doesn't mean anything but small


I've never heard of a Toy chihuahua? 

A chihuahua is already a Toy breed.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> It is not a name but a description and that is exactly what i explain on my website. Why do the KC use the name "Toy", it's just a name and doesn't mean anything but small


But a name that has connections with idiot celebrities and puppy mills why not just say small.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh, and, in your advert, sorry, 'website', you warn that there are unscrupulous breeders out there who just want to breed litters of pups without regard to improvement of the Breed.

How are you improving the Breed by producing pups which are destined to be tiny dogs in an already toy breed?

How does that improve temperament and character?

I can only judge on what I've read and I believe you're breeding what you think will sell and if you have to muck about with a Breed, that's what you'll do.


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

The kennel club doesn't register the labradoodle and has no intentions of doing so in the future. Or any other designer mix :skep: unless of course at some point they become standardised.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Sweety said:


> Oh, and, in your advert, sorry, 'website', you warn that there are unscrupulous breeders out there who just want to breed litters of pups without regard to improvement of the Breed.
> 
> How are you improving the Breed by producing pups which are destined to be tiny dogs in an already toy breed?
> 
> ...


You'll note temperament and character (isn't that the same thing?) were mentioned, but not HEALTH! But of course, silly me, I forgot.

If I buy a pup from here I'll have the reassurance of knowing that when it dies, horribly, from a probably entirely preventable genetic problem at the age of six months, I'll be able to get my money back!!


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Before people make judgement most of your questions are on my website which tells the whole story. I breed what most people want and that is a Chihuahua that fits straight into their family life from day one, why should i line the pockets of a K9 legislating authority that believes there is such a breed as a Labradoodle which has had a knock on effect now so every Tom Dick and Harry feels it necessary to start creating their own designer breed. KC registration is only as accurate as the information the breeder supplied so until they introduce a flawless registration system i will always feel this way


You don't like the KC - but you are totally ignorant as to what they do???


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> With narrow minded replies such as yours one word...Labradoodle!!


Heaven help me! A labradoodle isn't a breed!


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> With narrow minded replies such as yours one word...Labradoodle!!


The kennel club doesn't recognise them, no kennel club does and won't unless they get them standardised etc. Same for any of the hundred other designer crosses.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Before people make judgement most of your questions are on my website which tells the whole story. I breed what most people want and that is a Chihuahua that fits straight into their family life from day one, why should i line the pockets of a K9 legislating authority that believes there is such a breed as a Labradoodle which has had a knock on effect now so every Tom Dick and Harry feels it necessary to start creating their own designer breed. KC registration is only as accurate as the information the breeder supplied so until they introduce a flawless registration system i will always feel this way


The KC doesn't recognise or register the labradoodle. 

Perhaps you don't know as much aabout the KC as you think you do?

I have a question for you - why are the pups on your website for sale at such differing prices? The prices for a boy range from £595 to £1600 - why?

And the other issue that screams at me from your website is that there is no info on sires and dams - again, this rings so many alarm bells.


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Labradoodle Association of the UK - Frequently Asked Questions


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Actually no they are not, Character is a display of characteristics resulting from every day life experiences, Temperament is a reaction resulting from a usually under pressure experience, mostly from us humans. Studying your dogs will ultimately let you understand their ways far better than just seeing what you want to see.


And your answer to the point about lack of health tests is......?

Or do you prefer arguing semantics?


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Ok let me have a turn, what do you breed and have you a website?


I have border collies and bergamascos - the last litter I bred was over six years ago and I don't have a website.

Instead of deflecting the issue, can you answer my questions about the prices you charge and the names of your sires and dams?


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Absolutely yes i can answer all the questions yo have but i have gauged a good enough picture of you from your answers to know that you are set in your old school ways so will never see reason, new ideas or listen to change so for these reasons answering you will only waste my time sorry. Just like our dogs we are all different.....something to think about.
> Thanks for your views


:lol:

Your picture of me is waaay off the mark, but never mind.

So, what are the answers then? Those are basic questions I would ask as a potential puppy buyer coming to your site for the first time.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Not at all, can i remind you that you have been putting me under scrutiny and fired narrow minded comments but i haven't had a chance to turn the table.....what health tests are you referring to?


The fact that you have to ask gives you away.

I don't know the breed, but a quick google brings up this Chihuahua (Long and Short Coat) | Dog Breed Health


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

And yes, before you ask, I've had the required health tests done on my bitch as a prerequisite to even thinking about breeding her. And I can rattle these off:

CLAD
PRA rcd1
PRA rcd4
Hip scoring
Clear eye certificate


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> You see this is exactly why our dog world is in the state it is, people see what they want to see and never see the whole story. I am an independent and a proud pro-active breeder who has no need fro the KC club as the work i do here coupled with my unique puppy program ensures my customers buy exactly what they wanted to buy and that is the perfect family pet.
> The word Teacup is no different than the word small, it is a world recognized word by people looking for a small Chihuahua.


the word teacup is associated with extremely tiny dogs from the toy breed group (ie a group of already tiny dogs), if you don't know that when people hear teacup they think of a dog to fit in your purse or pocket then you're really out of the loop!



ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> That is only your interpretation, i have been breeding Chihuahuas for over 22 years and my customers have always understood the description and knows that it is not a diversity of the breed. Size has no relation to health what so ever, i own a Chihuahua that is one of the smallest dogs in the world, she has appeared on various TV programs and been in many newspapers but has never seen the inside of a vets.


good for you, but no- you're actually wrong there. there is a HUGE link between overly tiny dogs and weakness in their joints (primarily knees) that can be strained by daily tasks such as jumping on a sofa or running up the stairs- not something you've likely ever had to deal with from your buyers as you only seem to cover the 1st year.



ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> What you are missing here is THIS POINT "conforms to the Breed Standard"... for who? The show judges, I work hard to ensure my puppies become the perfect new family member and not to please some judge. Temperament and Character for me always over shadows looks.


no, the standard is there to tell people the traits of a breed- not just aesthetics, but temperament as well.



ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> It is not a name but a description and that is exactly what i explain on my website. Why do the KC use the name "Toy", it's just a name and doesn't mean anything but small


see post above- you should know fine well if you've been in the breed 22 years what people think when you say teacup- and the toy group is just the same as there being a gundog group, a terrier group...



ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Absolutely yes i can answer all the questions yo have but i have gauged a good enough picture of you from your answers to know that you are set in your old school ways so will never see reason, new ideas or listen to change so for these reasons answering you will only waste my time sorry. Just like our dogs we are all different.....something to think about.
> Thanks for your views


ok, i'm only 22- so can't be 'set in my ways' yet. my breed is yorkies, i have bred 5 litters all as close to standard as possible- producing fantastic pets and offering a lifetime of support and a contract stating that if at any time a hereditary problem arises that needs dealt with i will pay their insurance excess (hasn't happened yet).
will you answer their questions for Me? please?


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

oh,
and the kennel clubs statement regarding the labradoodle and other 'designer' breeds...
Designer Dogs


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> The word Teacup is no different than the word small, it is a world recognized word by people looking for a small Chihuahua.


Sounds like a recipe for hydrocephalus and syringomyelia to me.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Not at all, can i remind you that you have been putting me under scrutiny and fired narrow minded comments but i haven't had a chance to turn the table.....what health tests are you referring to?


No. We are not putting you under scrutiny, you have put yourself in that place by coming to this forum, rubbishing the Kennel Club, and giving a link to your website where, in turn, you rubbish other breeders for not trying to breed to improve Chihuahuas.

You then point out that you have one of the smallest dogs in the World. What's that about?

You have yourself pointed out that you breed what people want to buy.

What gives you, a one person band, the right to decide that you'll reduce the size of a Breed?

And why are you asking others if they have a website? Why is that important? Your website just reads to me as one big advert in which you big yourself up as just about the only person who knows what they're doing.

I also find the fact that you need to enquire about health tests alarming. Are your breeding dogs tested, or do you have another high faluting explanation as to why you don't consider it necessary?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh and you have pointed out several times that you have a "unique" breeding programme. Can you explain what makes you unique please?

I notice also that you refer several times to those who would buy your pups as your "Customers".

I don't like that.

You've informed us several times that we only see what we want to see. No. We're seeing what you're saying through everything you write.

If you want to breed stunted pups because they sell, don't expect applause from us.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry but the prices on your website ChihuahuaworldUk are the price I'd expect to pay for a show quality KC registered puppy from an established show breeder. 

Your website comes across very cold, like a pet shop. You even accept credit cards. With a teacup girl puppy for £1950.

Tea cup for me is a term that makes me avoid the breeder, as I'm quite active within the Chihuahua community I know I'm not the only person that feels this way, most good ethical breeders feel the same.

Breeding should be a loving caring activity but your website feels clinical.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Oh and you have pointed out several times that you have a "unique" breeding programme. Can you explain what makes you unique please?
> 
> I notice also that you refer several times to those who would buy your pups as your "Customers".
> 
> ...


breeding for tinies (or teacups as their are more commonly known) is a real sore spot of mine- i've had people walk up to me in the street trying to buy bambi off me! as soon as i say she's spayed thankfully they leave! we only kept bambi because we couldn't find a home we trusted not to breed her (before we fell in love with the wee minx!)
the tiniest pup we've had was from missy last litter- she was actually the *cheapest * i've ever sold a pup- had to make sure she was going to the right home who understood what it meant to have a tiny as a pet (her mommy -main owner- is primarily wheelchair bound, so Paige can ride on her knee, and has no stairs to climb, and her own ramp to get on the bed and sofa!)


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

shetlandlover said:


> Sorry but the prices on your website ChihuahuaworldUk are the price I'd expect to pay for a show quality KC registered puppy from an established show breeder.
> 
> Your website comes across very cold, like a pet shop. You even accept credit cards. With a teacup girl puppy for £1950.
> 
> ...


kind of like you're shopping for a new pair of shoes ain't it? price and size right there- but no mention of where they came from.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> ....................................


Deleting all your posts wont make a difference, you've been quoted by some members and everyones already seen your breeding practices.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Hmmm. The advert for her site didn't turn out quite like planned!!


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

take it then i won't be getting an answer chihuahuaworlduk then?
shame, because no matter how many of your original posts You delete, we won't be editing Our posts- what you said will still be there in quotes, add that to your lack of answering legit questions and you're making yourself look a tad shady.
i was really interested in your views; shame you can't seem to answer our basic questions.


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## Bedhead (Feb 10, 2014)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> I have had show breeders here that have bought puppies from me (non KC) and then i have found out they have registered them as one of their own puppies just so they have a KC number to enter shows.


I'm not even nearly an expert at this, but couldn't that be avoided by microchipping your puppies before they leave, and putting those numbers on their Kennel club registration? There is no way I'd pay four figures for a puppy whose only proof of breeding was what the breeder told me!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Oh she's gone - that's a shame! I was waiting to hear about the health tests she does.

As this thread will undoubtedly show up on a Google search in future, where many other people will be able to read it - I'll make sure the health tests are mentioned anyway -

Patella
Heart
Eyes

and some links to the more serious diseases that are known in Chihuahuas,
Hydrocephalus
hydrocephalus chihuahua

Syringomyelia/Chiari Malformation
SYRINGOMYELIA SCHEME LAUNCHED AT CRUFTS 2012 | Fecava

And, oh look! 
Kennel Club Canine Health Scheme are involved in the Syringomyelia scheme! Shame ChihuahuaWorldUK does not have any KC registered dogs, it means none of hers can take part and she can't offer any buyers a safe assurance her puppies don't have it!


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Bedhead said:


> I'm not even nearly an expert at this, but couldn't that be avoided by microchipping your puppies before they leave, and putting those numbers on their Kennel club registration? There is no way I'd pay four figures for a puppy whose only proof of breeding was what the breeder told me!


no expert on chi pups, but they're a similar size to yorkies, and a yorkie pup is approx 1/2 it's adult size at 12 weeks (1/3 at 8) and i don't know Any vet i'd let near my pups who would agree to microchip a 1lb pup- smaller if leaving at 8 weeks. my bambi is 3.2lbs and my vet waited until she was 5months before he'd chip her- even then he was near in tears because she cried!


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## ChihuahuaWorldUK (Feb 23, 2014)

shetlandlover said:


> Deleting all your posts wont make a difference, you've been quoted by some members and everyones already seen your breeding practices.


Pathetic some people, makes me laugh more than anything. It's you sort of people who hound the Facebook and Twitter victims no doubt all day everyday because they have no other challenges in life. Keep scoring your points and earn your forum badges and who nows one day you may become nice people. You obviously all hide under the KC umbrella because you are too scared to try new ideas and actually invest time and money into something into your own ideas.
Deleting comments was the only option as i could not find a delete account button, why would i want to belong to a group of do gooders that has no one actually doing good!


Sorry forgot to say that i have taken on board all what you have said so now i am going to shoot myself.....good bye cruel world, sorry forum.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Oh come on you're not even trying to do a good flounce :frown2:. 5/10 at best. 

You don't like what you hear when people are saying this type of breeding is wrong, well it's the internet you'll find someone somewhere that will give you the answer and praise you want.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> .....why would i want to belong to a group of do gooders that has no one actually doing good!


Why would we - some whom are actually doing good, but you assumed we aren't and don't seem very interested in what we ARE doing - want to mix with the likes of a puppy farmer like you, anyway?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Pathetic some people, makes me laugh more than anything. It's you sort of people who hound the Facebook and Twitter victims no doubt all day everyday because they have no other challenges in life. Keep scoring your points and earn your forum badges and who nows one day you may become nice people. You obviously all hide under the KC umbrella because you are too scared to try new ideas and actually invest time and money into something into your own ideas.
> Deleting comments was the only option as i could not find a delete account button, why would i want to belong to a group of do gooders that has no one actually doing good!
> 
> 
> Sorry forgot to say that i have taken on board all what you have said so now i am going to shoot myself.....good bye cruel world, sorry forum.


Translation - I've been caught out puppy farming and I'm off!


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Pathetic some people, makes me laugh more than anything. It's you sort of people who hound the Facebook and Twitter victims no doubt all day everyday because they have no other challenges in life. Keep scoring your points and earn your forum badges and who nows one day you may become nice people. You obviously all hide under the KC umbrella because you are too scared to try new ideas and actually invest time and money into something into your own ideas.
> Deleting comments was the only option as i could not find a delete account button, why would i want to belong to a group of do gooders that has no one actually doing good!


and you're doing good HOW? :skep: 

i'll have you know that there are many many members here with more knowledge of dogs and more invested in health and welfare than i'm sure you could imagine, never mind achieve.
do you have anything to back up that You do? (other than your 22years of breeding)

but yes- it is us who are pathetic and running off in a huff because someone asked a few questions of you.

not being rude, but i just don't quite get it. if you are doing right, why not call us on it?

and i'm sure no one here (on this thread anyway)would hound anyone on a social media- unless they are putting animals lives at risk and could do with being called on it.


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## Bedhead (Feb 10, 2014)

kodakkuki said:


> no expert on chi pups, but they're a similar size to yorkies, and a yorkie pup is approx 1/2 it's adult size at 12 weeks (1/3 at 8) and i don't know Any vet i'd let near my pups who would agree to microchip a 1lb pup- smaller if leaving at 8 weeks. my bambi is 3.2lbs and my vet waited until she was 5months before he'd chip her- even then he was near in tears because she cried!


That makes sense, I don't have any experience at all with tiny pups. My BT was over 7 1/2 lb at 10 weeks when he was chipped, so size was never mentioned!


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Deleting comments was the only option as i could not find a delete account button, why would i want to belong to a group of do gooders that has no one actually doing good!


I dunno about you but my conscience is clear, my bitch was fully health tested, as was the stud I used. I didn't need to use a sales ploy to sell my puppies nor did I have to charge double what most of my breed go for. I sold my puppies to homes I ensured were the best for them (not just anyone) and I sold them for the price of my breed.

Are your dogs health tested?

And just how many dogs/bitches do you have to have so many puppies for sale?

:frown2:

Sorry but the only person not doing good is you, by coming on here trying to make not registering your dogs a good thing you've only made yourself look bad......there's no good reason for 2 KC reg dogs to not have registered offspring.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Pathetic some people, makes me laugh more than anything. It's you sort of people who hound the Facebook and Twitter victims no doubt all day everyday because they have no other challenges in life. Keep scoring your points and earn your forum badges and who nows one day you may become nice people. You obviously all hide under the KC umbrella because you are too scared to try new ideas and actually invest time and money into something into your own ideas.
> Deleting comments was the only option as i could not find a delete account button, why would i want to belong to a group of do gooders that has no one actually doing good!
> 
> 
> Sorry forgot to say that i have taken on board all what you have said so now i am going to shoot myself.....good bye cruel world, sorry forum.


I will help you...Jill


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Bedhead said:


> That makes sense, I don't have any experience at all with tiny pups. My BT was over 7 1/2 lb at 10 weeks when he was chipped, so size was never mentioned!


you wouldn't believe how tiny even the biggest yorkie pup can seem- 3 of my 4 yorkies fully grown haven't reached 7 1/2 lb- the one who has is too big for the show ring apparently (my awesome poppet- practically perfect in a humungous way!)

but *if* i ever have another litter- they'll be getting mini-chipped my me in mu own home at 12 weeks before they leave (mini gun, so less tissue trauma) ! :thumbup1:


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

On the Syringomyelia subject, someone on a local FB Pets For Sale group was asking why her Chihuahua (unregd, BYB bred) often scratched at one ear for long periods, for no apparent reason. Vet ruled out ear infections etc. 

Someone else mentioned her Chihuahua (also from unregd BYB lines, not related to the other as far as can be ascertained!) does the same - so they just said to one another "Must be a Chihuahua thing, then!" and left it at that.

Would not surprise me if Chiari Malformations/SM turn out to be much more common in Chihuahuas than most people realise.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

MerlinsMum said:


> On the Syringomyelia subject, someone on a local FB Pets For Sale group was asking why her Chihuahua (unregd, BYB bred) often scratched at one ear for long periods, for no apparent reason. Vet ruled out ear infections etc.
> 
> Someone else mentioned her Chihuahua (also from unregd BYB lines, not related to the other as far as can be ascertained!) does the same - so they just said to one another "Must be a Chihuahua thing, then!" and left it at that.
> 
> Would not surprise me if Chiari Malformations/SM turn out to be much more common in Chihuahuas than most people realise.


It wouldn't surprise me either but we won't know until the breeders start testing for it. Hopefully not as bad as cavaliers


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ChihuahuaWorldUK said:


> Pathetic some people, makes me laugh more than anything. It's you sort of people who hound the Facebook and Twitter victims no doubt all day everyday because they have no other challenges in life. Keep scoring your points and earn your forum badges and who nows one day you may become nice people. You obviously all hide under the KC umbrella because you are too scared to try new ideas and actually invest time and money into something into your own ideas.
> Deleting comments was the only option as i could not find a delete account button, why would i want to belong to a group of do gooders that has no one actually doing good!
> 
> 
> Sorry forgot to say that i have taken on board all what you have said so now i am going to shoot myself.....good bye cruel world, sorry forum.


One line in that post says it all for me. Accusing us of hiding under the KC umbrella because we're "too scared" to try new ideas.

I take it her definition of new ideas is breeding 'teacup' pups and asking the thick end of £2,000 apiece for them?

In my opinion, just another backyard breeder, cashing in on gullible buyers and masquerading under the guise of 'expert', apparently, because she has a website.

Interesting. I'm going to breed teacup Newfoundlands, ask a fortune for them, describe myself as unique and kick off at anyone who challenges me.

Does that sound about right to you ladies?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Sweety said:


> One line in that post says it all for me. Accusing us of hiding under the KC umbrella because we're "too scared" to try new ideas.
> 
> I take it her definition of new ideas is breeding 'teacup' pups and asking the thick end of £2,000 apiece for them?
> 
> ...


I have seen what were apparently teacup boxers :001_huh: so I'm sure you'll be fine with the newfies. Don't forget to charge a lot as they'll be very rare and if you can different colours all the better


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## Bedhead (Feb 10, 2014)

kodakkuki said:


> you wouldn't believe how tiny even the biggest yorkie pup can seem- 3 of my 4 yorkies fully grown haven't reached 7 1/2 lb- the one who has is too big for the show ring apparently (my awesome poppet- practically perfect in a humungous way!)
> 
> but *if* i ever have another litter- they'll be getting mini-chipped my me in mu own home at 12 weeks before they leave (mini gun, so less tissue trauma) ! :thumbup1:


I always forget how tiny yorkies actually are, I think it's because the only one I've ever known well was one that belonged to a neighbour when I was little. It was practically man eating, and to five year old me, seemed huge! It obviously left a lasting impression lol.


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Well that was...something :001_huh:


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Interesting. I'm going to breed teacup Newfoundlands, ask a fortune for them, describe myself as unique and kick off at anyone who challenges me.
> 
> Does that sound about right to you ladies?


bet you could pick up some really well bred runts cheap enough for your foundation stock- and of course you know where to go from there! :thumbup1:
it'll take a few generations to breed them really small, but i'm sure it'd make you a killing! and since apparently health testing is only for people hiding under umbrellas, you don't even have to pay out on that! ker-ching! :cornut:


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Nicky10 said:


> I have seen what were apparently teacup boxers :001_huh: so I'm sure you'll be fine with the newfies. Don't forget to charge a lot as they'll be very rare and if you can different colours all the better


Oh, I'll be charging a fortune because I'm unique you see.

I'll also be having a website where I'll commit a character assassination on anyone who tries to keep the breed to type, saying they're afraid to try something new.

I'm going to try and breed spotted, teacup Newfies and I'll accuse you of all being numpties when you don't applaud me for what I'm doing when I come to the forum pretending to be a guiding light when, in actual fact, I'm just trying to drum up some new 'Customers' for my stunted pups.

I can't wait to get started. Now don't criticise me, or I'll throw my teddy out and go off in a huff.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Sweety said:


> Oh, I'll be charging a fortune because I'm unique you see.
> 
> I'll also be having a website where I'll commit a character assassination on anyone who tries to keep the breed to type, saying they're afraid to try something new.
> 
> ...


And don't worry about health testing only needed for show dogs you see :thumbup1:.


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Bumble is 100% breed standard and Nicky will tell you he's tiny.

When I see teacup poms advertised a little part of me dies :frown2:


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh, health testing is rubbish, the Kennel Club are rubbish, other breeders are rubbish and anyone who doesn't think I'm wonderful is rubbish.

My Rosie caught a mouse on the patio lastnight. I'm going to keep it and breed teacup mice. I will own the smallest mouse in the World.

I'll sell the babies for a fortune. 

It really is that simple. All you need is a website.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> Bumble is 100% breed standard and Nicky will tell you he's tiny.
> 
> _When I see teacup poms advertised a little part of me dies_ :frown2:


i really hope you don't go onto the free-ads too often hun,


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Sweety said:


> Oh, health testing is rubbish, the Kennel Club are rubbish, other breeders are rubbish and anyone who doesn't think I'm wonderful is rubbish.
> 
> My Rosie caught a mouse on the patio lastnight. I'm going to keep it and breed teacup mice. I will own the smallest mouse in the World.
> 
> ...


And of course if you cross the puppies you can make even more money hybrid vigour etc. Maybe you could breed hybrid teacup newfoundland/mice


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

kodakkuki said:


> i really hope you don't go onto the free-ads too often hun,


I used to but I just can't do it anymore :nonod: x


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Flamingoes said:


> I used to but I just can't do it anymore :nonod: x


i'm the exact same- used to go on to advise ppl about the dangers of FTGH etc, but knowing there are others doing that daily now, i can't bring myself to look. :frown2:


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Oliver is spot on breed standard size for a Chihuahua and I'm always stopped being asked if he's tea cup, Chihuahua's are small enough they don't need to be any smaller.

I know someone who had a Chihuahua, breed standard size and the wind blew her kitchen door shut on the dog, killing it instantly. Can you imagine if it had been a tiny "teacup" / runt sized Chihuahua? Chihuahua's already require quite a delicate lifestyle to stop them being crushed, stepped on, sat on ect if they were even smaller they may as well live in a cage with a wheel.:frown2:


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Well that passed the time on a Sunday evening!

You know what I think is really sad? The one thing she said that may well be true. That's she's been on TV with her tiny chi.


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

BessieDog said:


> Well that passed the time on a Sunday evening!
> 
> You know what I think is really sad? The one thing she said that may well be true. That's she's been on TV with her tiny chi.


And I'm sure it was glamourised if she was 

The other sad thing is she GENUINELY believed in what she was saying and doing


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

She did sound passionate about what she was doing, but I wonder to what degree that was motivated by money?

Committed to what she's doing yes, but I don't think she cares at all about the welfare of the breed.

I wanted to tell her to go to the Chihuahua ring at Crufts and start spouting her beliefs to those who have spent years keeping the breed true to type.

She would have been lucky to come out alive!


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I don't think she was genuine. Not at the prices she was charging. Puppy farmer. Pure and simple.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Was she maybe on that show about teacup pets? There was a chi breeder on it with very very tiny dogs :frown2: it was horrendous but yes quite glamourised.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> Was she maybe on that show about teacup pets? There was a chi breeder on it with very very tiny dogs :frown2: it was horrendous but yes quite glamourised.


Sick, really, when you think about it. The fact that people "want" (allegedly!) these deformed, sickly animals, and will pay money for them is one thing; there's no reason why they should be pandered to.

Why are so many people blind to the idea of ethics, while simultaneously slandering the KC and denouncing show dogs as "mutants"? It makes no sense at all.

The KC isn't perfect but it's all we have - and overseas registration bodies have their faults as well. But going outside any registration scheme is not the answer, either.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

MerlinsMum said:


> Sick, really, when you think about it. The fact that people "want" (allegedly!) these deformed, sickly animals, and will pay money for them is one thing; there's no reason why they should be pandered to.
> 
> Why are so many people blind to the idea of ethics, while simultaneously slandering the KC and denouncing show dogs as "mutants"? It makes no sense at all.


Maybe if someone made a sensationalised documentary telling them to hate it they would

Super tiny animals that's what I was thinking of


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## Cinnebar (Nov 8, 2011)

I have inadvertantly got a 'teacup' Miniature Pinscher.
She was a small puppy but we didn't mind and assumed that she would catch up. We hadn't realised just how stunted she was until we saw her beside the 12 week old puppies. She is hardly bigger than them and she is over a year old now. She might still grow a little bit, but not very much. She appears very healthy and is a real livewire with a huge character. But I would never dream of breeding from her and she will be spayed as soon as we think she has grown as big as she is likely to


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I feel positively ashamed, not only am I such a poor member as to be banned, but I health test my breeding stock and will only breed on from dogs I believe can be of benefit to the gene pool. 

Off to research miniature Labradors, although from memory, someone's probably already beaten me to it............

.................................................................

Just because it seems the fashion since I was banned. 


........................................................................


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I feel positively ashamed, not only am I such a poor member as to be banned, but I health test my breeding stock and will only breed on from dogs I believe can be of benefit to the gene pool.
> 
> Off to research miniature Labradors, although from memory, someone's probably already beaten me to it............
> 
> ...


Glad to see the 'Ban' has been lifted... I wouldn't mind a 'Lab about the size of a cocker, full sized one wouldn't fit in my car with the other two, any chance of breeding me one.?????


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## brackenhwv (Mar 28, 2010)

What about this site ? my friend has 2 chi's since last year, she showed me this, what she told me if true, is not what is really happening according to the website. Like Chihuahuaworlduk it is the websites that sell these pups to the unknowing, packed with info and positve reinforcement about how great they are. I know a breeder, working breed, that health tests her dogs but is basically a glorified puppy farm, many bitches having 2 litters a year cos she needs the cash and she charges much more than the going rate and none are kc reg. Her website is fantastic and again that's what gets people hooked, at least she health tests, i suppose

Home


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

"Customers" 
YOWZA


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

brackenhwv said:


> What about this site ? my friend has 2 chi's since last year, she showed me this, what she told me if true, is not what is really happening according to the website. Like Chihuahuaworlduk it is the websites that sell these pups to the unknowing, packed with info and positve reinforcement about how great they are. I know a breeder, working breed, that health tests her dogs but is basically a glorified puppy farm, many bitches having 2 litters a year cos she needs the cash and she charges much more than the going rate and none are kc reg. Her website is fantastic and again that's what gets people hooked, at least she health tests, i suppose


So why are you giving them free advertising by putting the link up :frown2:

Edited to add:
I will remove the link form the quote in the hope that you will remove the link from your post.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Not sure I like tea cups of any description....even the ones that have been designed for...well tea....:001_huh: I like a big mug of the stuff....gets me going in the morning! :cornut:


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> Not sure I like tea cups of any description....even the ones that have been designed for...well tea....:001_huh: I like a big mug of the stuff....gets me going in the morning! :cornut:


the best kind of teacup yorkie!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

springerpete said:


> Glad to see the 'Ban' has been lifted... I wouldn't mind a 'Lab about the size of a cocker, full sized one wouldn't fit in my car with the other two, any chance of breeding me one.?????


Zasa's fairly small and compact, and she doesn't take much space up on the sofa, in fact she makes a pretty good head rest.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

springerpete said:


> Glad to see the 'Ban' has been lifted... I wouldn't mind a 'Lab about the size of a cocker, full sized one wouldn't fit in my car with the other two, any chance of breeding me one.?????


Can't you breed one yourself?

It's very easy .............. all you need is a website and a few 'customers' and hey presto - you're an expert!

Don't forget to charge £1650 for this fourteen inch tall wonder and do appear on television with him if you can.

You can post pictures of him on here and if anyone asks what the heck you think you're doing, you can just become abusive.

I don't know why we haven't all spotted this wonderful opportunity before.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

There is a kennel breeding mini labs, well labbes I don't think they're purebred, along with some complete mutt they call mini saint bernards. The saint bernard mix includes inexplicably pekingese :001_huh:

The sad thing about all this is hang around any dog forum for a while and you'd find out exactly how to make easy money off dodgy breeding. The difference is most people care about their animals too much.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> There is a kennel breeding mini labs, well labbes I don't think they're purebred, along with some complete mutt they call mini saint bernards. The saint bernard mix includes inexplicably pekingese :001_huh:


St. Bernard and Peke?? That's a coupling I'd like to see....


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

They're not saint bernards/pekes its a whole mess of breeds cocker spaniel, english shepherd, mastiff, bloodhound, pekingese and saint bernard :001_huh:. They claim they're recreating the process that made saint bernards or something. 

I guess some sort of look like saint bernards. It's dakota winds kennel not sure I can put up a link.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> They're not saint bernards/pekes its a whole mess of breeds cocker spaniel, english shepherd, mastiff, bloodhound, pekingese and saint bernard :001_huh:. They claim they're recreating the process that made saint bernards or something.
> 
> I guess some sort of look like saint bernards. It's dakota winds kennel not sure I can put up a link.


They also apparently trade in mini saint berdoodles :skep:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I feel positively ashamed, not only am I such a poor member as to be banned, but I health test my breeding stock and will only breed on from dogs I believe can be of benefit to the gene pool.
> 
> Off to research miniature Labradors, although from memory, someone's probably already beaten me to it............
> 
> ...


You were banned  That passed me by.


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## brackenhwv (Mar 28, 2010)

Rocco33, not advertising them at all, as would be obvious by the wording of my post I could have put the name down and people will google it themselves. I put it up, as my post says it is the websites that sell these pups and the good pictures. Where was I promoting it ? Proof that Chihuahuaworlduk is not the only one or maybe they are one and the same as tiffanys states that they were on supertiny program and proves in my eyes that these poor dogs are nothing but commodities


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

brackenhwv said:


> Rocco33, not advertising them at all, as would be obvious by the wording of my post I could have put the name down and people will google it themselves. I put it up, as my post says it is the websites that sell these pups and the good pictures. Where was I promoting it ? Proof that Chihuahuaworlduk is not the only one or maybe they are one and the same as tiffanys states that they were on supertiny program and proves in my eyes that these poor dogs are nothing but commodities


Nothing to do with what you said, and I appreciate you weren't doing it deliberately, but every time someone clicks on the link you provide that website moves further and further up the google rankings, hence promoting it. It's not just you, I wish everyone realised that by putting links they are unintentionally promoting a website.


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