# Would you let a pregnant cat outside?



## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

Hello,
I am still trying to determine if a stray cat that has been coming in and out our garden for a while now is a stray. She started of very thin and timid, but soon became friendly (suggesting she has/had a home?). Then she left for a while, but then returned pregnant. It has now reached the stage where we have to care for her (and her babies) regardless, as she has had worm problems and flea problems in the past. It's very strange because we have lived in the area for a while and a stray cat is very rare to appear here. She comes mostly morning and evening. Any suggestions??


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Have you tried putting a collar on her?


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> Have you tried putting a collar on her?


She does not let you touch around her neck area for too long, making it hard to put a collar on. I don't want to stress her out this late into the pregnancy.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Grace01 said:


> Hello,
> I am still trying to determine if a stray cat that has been coming in and out our garden for a while now is a stray. She started of very thin and timid, but soon became friendly (suggesting she has/had a home?). Then she left for a while, but then returned pregnant. It has now reached the stage where we have to care for her (and her babies) regardless, as she has had worm problems and flea problems in the past. It's very strange because we have lived in the area for a while and a stray cat is very rare to appear here. She comes mostly morning and evening. Any suggestions??


Slightly confused to be honest. Are you feeding her? Am I right that you have been able to de flea and de worm her? 
Have you put up any notices or posters for a found cat, in case she has an owner nearby? 
I think my first idea would be to try and get her in a carrier, take her to be checked for a chip and then go from there. Poor girl, hope she is OK.


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

moggie14 said:


> Slightly confused to be honest. Are you feeding her? Am I right that you have been able to de flea and de worm her?
> Have you put up any notices or posters for a found cat, in case she has an owner nearby?
> I think my first idea would be to try and get her in a carrier, take her to be checked for a chip and then go from there. Poor girl, hope she is OK.


We have been feeding her, she has been wormed and de fleaed. I in the process of being checked for a chip also. Health wise she is doing very well


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Grace01 said:


> We have been feeding her, she has been wormed and de fleaed. I in the process of being checked for a chip also. Health wise she is doing very well


Oh good to hear she is well. Have you tried to track down an owner? 
Perhaps when you get her checked for a chip the vet can also give you an idea as to how far along her pregnancy is. Do you have any other pets or can she be indoors with you?
Thank goodness you are looking out for her! Please let us know what happens x


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

moggie14 said:


> Oh good to hear she is well. Have you tried to track down an owner?
> Perhaps when you get her checked for a chip the vet can also give you an idea as to how far along her pregnancy is. Do you have any other pets or can she be indoors with you?
> Thank goodness you are looking out for her! Please let us know what happens x


We are hoping she is chipped, we are planning to go tomorrow. We do have two other cats (male neutered) who sleep indoors at night. She is in our conservatory and a nesting box in case of a pregnancy. Will post updates


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Grace01 said:


> We are hoping she is chipped, we are planning to go tomorrow. We do have two other cats (male neutered) who sleep indoors at night. She is in our conservatory and a nesting box in case of a pregnancy. Will post updates


Thanks hun would love to know how you get on. Perhaps the owners moved and left her behind. I hope she has a uncomplicated pregnancy and birth - please ask away on here if you have any questions, lots of experienced breeders here that can help xx


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

moggie14 said:


> Thanks hun would love to know how you get on. Perhaps the owners moved and left her behind. I hope she has a uncomplicated pregnancy and birth - please ask away on here if you have any questions, lots of experienced breeders here that can help xx


Just a quick question, would you let a pregnant cat outside?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi Grace, if the cat is noticeably pregnant, [and certainly if she is heavily pregnant] then No, I would not let her outside. Two reasons: firstly she may give birth outside and you may not be able to find the kittens, and if she had complications during the birth she would be hidden away with no-one to help her.

Secondly, as she is pregnant she is likely to be less agile, less fleet of foot and therefore less able to run away from any threat she meets outdoors.

So I would keep her indoors, and start preparing a nesting box for her. Once the kittens are born do not on any account allow her outdoors until the kittens are weaned, as it would be terrible if something happened to her and you were left to hand rear the kittens. Then she would need spaying anyway before she goes out doors again, as cats can come into heat again after they've given birth and can get pregnant even whilst nursing kittens.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Agree with @chillminx for the reasons given. If your conservatory can be kept separate from the house and other cats I'm sure she will be fine in there. I hope all went well today and you managed to get her to the vet xx


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

However people who let an unspayed cat wander and get pregnant might not be too fussy about keeping her in once she is pregnant.


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## Uniquepets (Jun 30, 2014)

sounds like she may be someone's pet and you may of overstepped your mark by feeding her before you were 110% certain if she was a stray or not. Everyone knows feeding a cat encourages them and in time they often leave their own homes, for the local person feeding them. 

I suggest checking for microchip, maybe take her in but put flyers around to inform the owners that you have her. If no one comes to collect her then she is yours and her babies


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Two more reasons, once she has had her kittens. She could have an accident leaving you having to hand-rear, and sh could get pregnant again.


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

chillminx said:


> Hi Grace, if the cat is noticeably pregnant, [and certainly if she is heavily pregnant] then No, I would not let her outside. Two reasons: firstly she may give birth outside and you may not be able to find the kittens, and if she had complications during the birth she would be hidden away with no-one to help her.
> 
> Secondly, as she is pregnant she is likely to be less agile, less fleet of foot and therefore less able to run away from any threat she meets outdoors.
> 
> So I would keep her indoors, and start preparing a nesting box for her. Once the kittens are born do not on any account allow her outdoors until the kittens are weaned, as it would be terrible if something happened to her and you were left to hand rear the kittens. Then she would need spaying anyway before she goes out doors again, as cats can come into heat again after they've given birth and can get pregnant even whilst nursing kittens.


Thank you, we are taking her to RSPCA group tomorrow to be check for a micro chip. Steps will be taken from there to decide if she is to stay at the centre or go back.


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> Two more reasons, once she has had her kittens. She could have an accident leaving you having to hand-rear, and sh could get pregnant again.


I agree 100% better safe than sorry.


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

chillminx said:


> Hi Grace, if the cat is noticeably pregnant, [and certainly if she is heavily pregnant] then No, I would not let her outside. Two reasons: firstly she may give birth outside and you may not be able to find the kittens, and if she had complications during the birth she would be hidden away with no-one to help her.
> 
> Secondly, as she is pregnant she is likely to be less agile, less fleet of foot and therefore less able to run away from any threat she meets outdoors.
> 
> So I would keep her indoors, and start preparing a nesting box for her. Once the kittens are born do not on any account allow her outdoors until the kittens are weaned, as it would be terrible if something happened to her and you were left to hand rear the kittens. Then she would need spaying anyway before she goes out doors again, as cats can come into heat again after they've given birth and can get pregnant even whilst nursing kittens.


Thank you, she does stay in all night and is welcome to stay in our conservatory during the day. She is going to a rescue centre tomorrow to possibly stay, to ensure she has a safe birth.


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> However people who let an unspayed cat wander and get pregnant might not be too fussy about keeping her in once she is pregnant.


I agree, but I hope that's not the case


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

Uniquepets said:


> sounds like she may be someone's pet and you may of overstepped your mark by feeding her before you were 110% certain if she was a stray or not. Everyone knows feeding a cat encourages them and in time they often leave their own homes, for the local person feeding them.
> 
> I suggest checking for microchip, maybe take her in but put flyers around to inform the owners that you have her. If no one comes to collect her then she is yours and her babies


Yes it could be a possible scenario, but I personally do not agree with a heavily pregnant cat still able to be outside. Stray or no stray


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

That's great to hear you are doing all you can for her. I hope all goes well for you both, please let us know xx


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

moggie14 said:


> That's great to hear you are doing all you can for her. I hope all goes well for you both, please let us know xx


I will post updates tomorrow after she has been checked over


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

Update*** 
I would like to first say thank you to everyone who helped me and gave me advice:

she is now in the hands of the RSPCA, they too agreed that she should not be outside this late in her pregnancy. So on the grounds of welfare she should continue her pregnancy in the safety of the shelter. They also said that she would give birth in under two weeks, her health was very good as we were feeding her right up till the day she left. Her micro chip scanning was something the rescue centre would sort out and deal with. Again thank you for everyone that help me through this situation! We are also allowed to see the kittens and their mother after the birth.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Grace01 said:


> Update***
> I would like to first say thank you to everyone who helped me and gave me advice:
> 
> she is now in the hands of the RSPCA, they too agreed that she should not be outside this late in her pregnancy. So on the grounds of welfare she should continue her pregnancy in the safety of the shelter. They also said that she would give birth in under two weeks, her health was very good as we were feeding her right up till the day she left. Her micro chip scanning was something the rescue centre would sort out and deal with. Again thank you for everyone that help me through this situation! We are also allowed to see the kittens and their mother after the birth.


Well done you! x


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks for updating us - pleased mum is safe. All credit to you for helping her xx


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Great news you were able to get her in, often the "waiting list" is so long the cat has found an alternative home by the time the call comes to say there is space. I'm pleased as well that you can visit her and the kittens, and they will let her have them. If the cat was microchipped they wouldn't be able to pass on details, but should be able to let you know if they traced her owner. Well done for taking care of her.


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## purplemonkeydishwasher (Jun 3, 2015)

Thanks for being that special person who actually does the right thing.
I hope kitty and babies will be rehomed soon.


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## Grace01 (Jun 18, 2015)

Catharinem said:


> Great news you were able to get her in, often the "waiting list" is so long the cat has found an alternative home by the time the call comes to say there is space. I'm pleased as well that you can visit her and the kittens, and they will let her have them. If the cat was microchipped they wouldn't be able to pass on details, but should be able to let you know if they traced her owner. Well done for taking care of her.


We hope to call them by the end of the week to check if she is micro chipped. There has been no lost posters around my area so its highly likely she is a stray or has an owner who cannot care for her needs (pregnancy).


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Quite possibly, but knowing you'll be checking on progress makes them less likely to spay in late pregnancy, which can only be a good thing. Their policy used to be to spay up to 3 weeks before due to give birth (from a 9 week pregnancy), which I'm not sure was or is common knowledge to "The Public".


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I understand exactly why that was the policy. There are never enough foster carers, enough homes, enough money for the vet and so on. If I was running a rescue I can imagine I may well have to have a similar policy for just those reasons.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> I understand exactly why that was the policy. There are never enough foster carers, enough homes, enough money for the vet and so on. If I was running a rescue I can imagine I may well have to have a similar policy for just those reasons.


Unfortunately " The Public" is often unaware of what goes on behind closed doors. Especially when at the centre I worked there were so many complaints from the staff looking after the cats as to the size of queens being aborted, and how close they were to giving birth, that an official announcement that " cats can be spayed up to 3 weeks before giving birth, the vet will decide the stage of pregnancy and his decision is final" was made. Read into that what you will. Being asked to clean an oiled sparrow brought in by someone as had experience at a wildlife hospital, started work immediately to be interrupted and reminded cat pens cleaning ( not feeding/medicines but litter trays) needed finishing first to be ready for "The Public" when we opened our doors. The warning to be careful of Animal Rights trying to infiltrate as volunteers, where if there's nothing to hide it's not a problem... 3 years was all I could stick, lets just say I had all the illusions knocked out of me as to what really mattered to them. So next time someone goes round a nice shiny clean run of pens, stop a moment and think about the bit of the centre that is locked to "The Public".


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

All you say may be true to a greater or lesser extent in most rescues, but how do you resolve the problem of not enough money, not enough foster homes, far too many people who won't neuter, far too many people who get cats they can't afford, given there is no NHS for pets?


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> All you say may be true to a greater or lesser extent in most rescues, but how do you resolve the problem of not enough money, not enough foster homes, far too many people who won't neuter, far too many people who get cats they can't afford, given there is no NHS for pets?


Take on only what you can manage. After all, "animal hoarders" are considered a bad thing, though many do it for all the right reasons. A charity should be no different. Saving one animal won't change the world, but it will change the world for that animal. Unfortunately, having seen it from the inside, it seems to be more about publicity and quotas - "look how many cats and dogs we took in last year". Yes, but quite a lot got killed didn't they? I suppose what frustrated me most of all was the secrecy, the clause in your contract that you couldn't say or do anything to bring the charity into disrepute, so whistleblowers were gagged. Emotional blackmail too - my first elderly Siamese came from there, nothing wrong except kidney disease needing special diet. They were going to PTS her "just in case" an owner could not afford her special diet at some unspecified time in the future. So she was reserved to me. Then I was asked to sign a confidentiality clause for something I didn't feel comfortable about, the whole adoption process was put on hold (from the charity I already worked for full time, working with that individual animal). I had daily reminders that I still hadn't signed, and the countdown to the maximum stay for that cat before being PTS as un-rehomed - but she wasn't available to anyone else to reserve due to her "health issues". In effect "sign or the cat dies". Pretty shameful behaviour from a major animal welfare charity relying on public donations. Even whilst young I was stubborn and thought outside the box, I got the people drawing up the agreement to insert an addendum, then signed. I guess each person has to draw their own line in the sand as to what is acceptable to them, but a publically funded charity should be transparently run. I'm sure the majority of people would seek help from a different charity, with a non PTS policy, if the signover form said something like " I hereby relinquish any claim to the above animal, and understand that the animal will be neutered or spayed. I further understand that if the animal is pregnant the kittens/puppies may be aborted up to 2/3 of the way through the pregnancy. I understand that the risks of abortion are greater than those of a normal spay". That would be honest. Taking in the box with big smiles at reception, and booking the animal in for immediate abortion is misleading if not downright dishonest. 3 years of banging my head against a brick wall and I decided they didn't need a degree level s**t shoveler, and I would be better off earning a decent wage and using my spare time and cash to help animals in other ways. I've spoken to so many people who feel the same way, the welfare of individual animals has been sacrificed for the image of the charity. If you can't wake up every day ready to give your everything to the animals in your care, don't do it at all.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

You haven't really addressed the issues, just told us what an awful time you had working at the rescue and that you disapproved of it's ethics.

Rescues are constantly getting slated for not taking cats in at the drop of a hat, no wonder they adopt policies which allow them to help the maximum number of living cats & kittens - living as in 'not unborn'.

I'm sure if you tried running a rescue you would soon find it much harder than you make out, especially "Take on only what you can manage". There is always another heart-rending deserving case out there.

The vet I use does early neutering. She started doing it at the request of the rescue she does the vet work for - they got sick and tired of female kittens homed with a free neutering voucher returning later, pregnant. Anyone who hands a pregnant cat over to a rescue IMHO is unlikely to care about the clause you want to insert into the contract. Come to that, how much more risky and what is the evidence? The good-quality studies? After all those of us with degrees (quite a few of us in various fields) appreciate proper evidence.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

PS rescues vary. Some are awful, some are brilliant, most are probably somewhere in-between.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> You haven't really addressed the issues, just told us what an awful time you had working at the rescue and that you disapproved of it's ethics.
> 
> Rescues are constantly getting slated for not taking cats in at the drop of a hat, no wonder they adopt policies which allow them to help the maximum number of living cats & kittens - living as in 'not unborn'.
> 
> ...


I think this is going off thread of letting a pregnant cat outside, so might need a whole new thread to itself, maybe "If I Ran A Rescue..." ? however, briefly:

I didn't leave because I "had an awful time" I left because my being there was pointless - they just wanted someone who would clean litter trays and dog mess, administer medicine and not question anything. With a scientific background my experience had been to ask questions and have reasoned discussions, not be an automaton following orders blindly.

Admittedly I haven't "tried running a rescue" but I have worked on the inside of a major charity for 3 years, which I believe gives me an insight which you don't have. You will also appreciate that much of what I saw is still confidential and I am not at liberty to divulge details, the examples I have given are the tip of the iceberg, believe me. I have seen examples of cruelty at it's worst and the effect it has had on animals' souls ( call it spirit/personality if you prefer, not getting into a religious debate,) as well as bodies, and have also spoken to heartbroken owners having to part with their beloved pets for many and various reasons. It says on the form "unwanted" but this is not an accurate description of the circumstances, it just means handed over voluntarily, not confiscated or found straying. I have had to turn away potential adopters who didn't quite meet the policies, but would have been ideal owners in all ways. It's true there are always more heart rending cases, but killing of the unborn, whilst risking the mother's own life, is not a solution to the problem, it's education and help in the community that will make the real difference, so the waiting list to come in in the first place isn't so long. Flexibility in rehoming too, with a manager prepared to listen to the staff who work with the animals and have spoken to/assessed the new owner, not a "computer says no" attitude.

My vet refuses to do early neutering, some vets do it. This is risk analysis of the operation under anaesthetic, and I appreciate that in a rescue situation it might be better to risk losing the odd cat (not yet reserved) under anaesthetic than have pregnant cats returned when they have not been neutered as agreed at the time of rehoming. However, early neutering is not abortion of living foetuses, it is prevention of pregnancy before it occurs, don't confuse the two, or try to fool others into confusing them. I believe many people bringing in pregnant cats would hold strong views on aborting kittens, and should be given the information that in that particular centre abortion will or will not be performed.

A pregnant uterus will be engorged and have a much richer blood supply than a non- pregnant uterus. More to remove, more risk of blood loss, simples!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

You have an insight into one branch of one major charity. Branches vary, charities vary, and as to spending your time cleaning up, there is an awful lot of that to do at any rescue.

Also once an animal is signed over that's it. The owners no longer have a say in the matter, and anyone who is signing over an obviously pregnant animal is pretty desperate and may well not mind that an abortion will be carried out.

As to early neutering, I get the impression you think it's too risky for kittens other than in a rescue situation. That is simply not the case, so long as the vet knows what they are doing in terms of managing the patient - how long to starve for, anaesthetic protocol, warmth and so on. This is specific to neutering a small kitten, a vet who tried to manage the kitten like a larger animal would struggle, but vets such as my own wonderful vet regularly neuter small kittens with no problems.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> You have an insight into one branch of one major charity. Branches vary, charities vary, and as to spending your time cleaning up, there is an awful lot of that to do at any rescue.
> 
> Also once an animal is signed over that's it. The owners no longer have a say in the matter, and anyone who is signing over an obviously pregnant animal is pretty desperate and may well not mind that an abortion will be carried out.
> 
> As to early neutering, I get the impression you think it's too risky for kittens other than in a rescue situation. That is simply not the case, so long as the vet knows what they are doing in terms of managing the patient - how long to starve for, anaesthetic protocol, warmth and so on. This is specific to neutering a small kitten, a vet who tried to manage the kitten like a larger animal would struggle, but vets such as my own wonderful vet regularly neuter small kittens with no problems.


I spend quite a bit of my time now cleaning litter trays, pig arcs, feeding, administering medicine, lambing (usually about 2am!), shearing sheep, eartagging calves whilst mum is trying to kill me! I'm under no illusions as to working with animals (whether rescue or domestic/farm of my own) quite often being messy, occasionally being dangerous if care not taken, but why employ a degree level person if ALL they wanted was poo cleaning?

People bringing in a pregnant animal might think twice if aware it would be aborted. Often pregnant cats were found by concerned passers by, not brought in by the owners. If they don't mind it being aborted then signing to say so prevents future comeback, if they do they might be able to find a spare bedroom for a few weeks where they didn't want to take on a cat for the next 15 years. They bring them to the rescue with the unspoken understanding that the rescue will save lives, not take them.

Early neutering is still something I look at occasionally, as and when my vet is happy to do so I might consider it. Most recently I have had to have an operation in a kitten of 9 weeks old which simply had to be done, however their advice has been, and remains at the moment, not to early neuter, and to date they have never steered me wrong. If they were to offer abortion I would not use it ( unless I knew or suspected real defects), early neutering I feel is a safety issue on which I am happy to defer to my vet's experience - and they are very experienced, with 24 hour staff, abortion is a very personal moral choice - I might look at facts ( risk of deformed kittens etc), the final choice and buck would stop with me.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Your vets sound like the ones with no experience of early neutering. It's a vicious circle - they have no experience so they won't do it, they won't do it so they don't get experience. There are a number of vets across the country who will help other vets learn the specific skills.

Did the advert ask for someone with a degree, or did they pay you more for having one? If not having one was completely irrelevant.

What do you expect people who find pregnant cats to do? Leave them on the street? Not many people are kind enough and/or able (as some PFers are) to take them in. 

Even if it's their own cat I doubt it will make more than a handful step back. If you care for cats why would you hand over any cat, let alone a pregnant cat, without very good reason? If you don't care then you won't mind if she is aborted or not.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Catharinem said:


> I didn't leave because I "had an awful time" I left because my being there was pointless -* they just wanted someone who would clean litter trays and dog mess, administer medicine and not question anything. *With a scientific background my experience had been to ask questions and have reasoned discussions, not be an automaton following orders blindly.


If the job description was accurate, I am surprised you applied since it was obviously not the sort of job suited to your talents or training. It may be the charity was as dissatisfied with the situation.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

My vets are very experienced, they just don't early neuter as routine. They won't put kitten under extra risk (smaller body size to recover from anaesthetic/keep body temp stable etc) for a routine operation if it's safe to wait another couple of months. In their view, and mine, ANY extra risk is risk not worth taking. Of course in a rescue situation, or if you think you can't trust your own judgement about if people will breed from your cats, then the risk perception changes. All life is a risk, even crossing the road, but you look both ways first, not step out blindly. They have done fantastic work for me, kittens, puppies, cats and dogs, some very young, some elderly, some with emergencies, have worked absolute miracles.

Nope, they got my degree, individuality and ability to think through a solution all at no extra cost to them! Though it was clearly on my CV, and why I wanted a job with them when I had a degree was discussed at interview. They certainly didn't say "forget all that, just pick up poo ", or I would have declined the job offer. One of my colleagues covering the cat section for me one day had 3 cats come in together, put them in the same pen (to be fair they were family), and gave 3 wormers in dried food! Thank God they ate around them for me to see the next day, giving them in wet food for 1 cat to have treble the dose could have been dangerous. Though you don't need a degree to see that, common sense, that girl was quite exceptionally dozey sometimes, sometimes you do get what you pay for!

Bring in, sign form. If they don't care they won't mind signing will they? It's the secrecy I have the problem with almost (but not quite) as much as the act itself.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

QOTN said:


> If the job description was accurate, I am surprised you applied since it was obviously not the sort of job suited to your talents or training. It may be the charity was as dissatisfied with the situation.


I thought I could start at the bottom and work up (as discussed at interview). Don't the young always think they can change the world? I dare say I did cause a few headaches whilst there, my manager once said I was the most argumentative member of staff he'd ever had, but if an animal was going to die he'd give it to me to save. That'll do nicely as a compliment, thank you.


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