# Help Metacam 4.5mls Daily?!?!



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Sorry for another thread my cat has been prescribed metacam 4.5mls daily until the bottle runs out. I've read it should be no more than three times a week and is dangerous. She has suspected liver problems and has had kidney problems.

Is there something else I can request for her to have instead, is 4.5mls daily really bad? They think she has a cancerous growth on a fluid filled lump she has always had...

Any opinions appreciated really worried about her now


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

dont worry!! i thought it seemed a lot as my boy had 2 ops, was screaming in pain coming round and they only give him 2ml twice a day and his over a stone in weight (at that time)

and that was only for 3 or 4 days.


id give them a call just incase though, if she drinks it with cat milk id do it that way, if she can take it!! maybe do 1 ml in the milk and see how she goes, i find it hard as they dont trust you after, thats what i hate


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow, I tend to agree with you and this would be rather worrisome to me too …. but without knowing the whole story it is impossible to say one way or the other.

Can I ask a few questions?

- Did the vet give your cat a metacam injection prior to starting the oral metacam treatment?
- If you give the advised dosage every day, how many days (roughly) will that mean your cat is on metacam?

As for other treatments instead of metacam, do please discuss this with your vet, but in my opinion and a short answer, well, "not really" (or maybe more accurate would be "not really if you're looking for the same level of effectiveness") BUT… it is definitely something worth running past your vet and telling him your concerns about the (prolonged?) use of oral metacam.

I wish you and your cat all the best !!

edited to add: this is what the official label says (but.... like other things in animal and human medicine, they can be used differently than what the label advices)

_Dosage and administration
Post-operative pain and inflammation following surgical procedures:_After initial treatment with Metacam 2 mg/ml solution for injection for cats, continue treatment 24 hours later with Metacam *0.5 mg/ml *oral suspension for cats at a dosage of 0.05 mg meloxicam/*kg body weight*. The oral follow-up dose may be administered *once daily *(at 24-hour intervals) *for up to four days*.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow... me again.... I suspect you just made a typo here... you mentioned 4.5 mls daily.... that's not what you meant was it? 

the bottle you have is probably 15 mls... so that would mean if you were dosing at 4.5mls daily that bottle would only last for 3 days.

Like I say.... I think you just made a very simple and very understandable typo in the first post... but I ...... better safe than sorry so just double checking


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> dont worry!! i thought it seemed a lot as my boy had 2 ops, was screaming in pain coming round and they only give him 2ml twice a day and his over a stone in weight (at that time)
> 
> and that was only for 3 or 4 days.
> 
> id give them a call just incase though, if she drinks it with cat milk id do it that way, if she can take it!! maybe do 1 ml in the milk and see how she goes, i find it hard as they dont trust you after, thats what i hate


She's definitely not on it for three or four days, its for a fair while I thin  I will definitely try it with the cat milk, if she's a bit wary do you think even if I get her to have a small bowl of the milk before or after that will help? She has seemed slightly restless but to be honest that could be because we've been having to basically force it down her...She is a bit overweight I think but not massively so and she doesn't eat too much, I think at most she's about 4kgs or so. We've put it down to them not going out as much now really, they are more indoor kitties.



Tje said:


> GoldenShadow, I tend to agree with you and this would be rather worrisome to me too . but without knowing the whole story it is impossible to say one way or the other.
> 
> Can I ask a few questions?
> 
> ...


She has got only the 0.5mg/ml one and label says give her 4.5mls daily for seven days then review if she needs more or not (they reckon 7 days was how long the bottle'd last, couldn't check last night dogs had gone to bed and one has been neutered/had a tooth out so didn't want to disturb him).

I don't know if they did give her a metacam injection or not, I think not...She is also on Clavaseptin Pal Tabs 50mg and she has 1.5 tabs so 75mg twice daily.

Just a bit worried re metacam as she's been quite unwell in the past and seems a lot of people prefer other drugs..?

They had a look at some of the lump under a microscope and that is why they think its cancer, tbh though I'm not sure exactly what they want the metacam to achieve. Maybe to see if its not cancer and might reduce it I guess. I know she's 16 but as she's been unwell before a few years ago and we were never 100% what it was I don't want to make her last little while really horrible if metacam can do damage.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tje said:


> GoldenShadow... me again.... I suspect you just made a typo here... you mentioned 4.5 mls daily.... that's not what you meant was it?
> 
> the bottle you have is probably 15 mls... so that would mean if you were dosing at 54.5mls daily that bottle would only last for 3 days.
> 
> Like I say.... I think you just made a very simple and very understandable typo in the first post... but I ...... better safe than sorry so just double checking


No that's right its got 15ml bottle and its 4.5ml of whatever solution is in the bottle. Just worried that the vet seems to want her on it for so long when everywhere seems to say it should be temporary for cats as its not really recommended for them 

If its likely to induce any problems for her we'd rather she have nothing, we gather she's on it to see if the lump can improve with it but she was in no pain before she went and was letting me have a good look and the same for the vet. She hasn't been more quiet than usual or anything, last couple months she has been better than in the last year and a bit I think. Would like her last little while to be nice and peaceful if possible don't want to induce anything if we don't need to.

Will ask the vet nurse later as dog is in at 9.30am.

Thanks for replies, she has had metacam before but she had a bigger bottle this is quite a small one. I'm not sure if the vets have her notes or not from our old vet (moved here in August)...


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2010)

Isn't the syringe that you draw it up in measured in kilos/body weight so it's dosing for a 4.5 kilo cat rather than 4.5ml ?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

GreyHare said:


> Isn't the syringe that you draw it up in measured in kilos/body weight so it's dosing for a 4.5 kilo cat rather than 4.5ml ?


No it is ml of solution on the syringe, its just a normal looking syringe with black markings on the side. Should it be in kg on the syringe?

I've just looked at the bottle there is like nothing left in there  It says on the label 4.5mls once daily for seven days. Going to ask this doesn't seem right if the bottle is run out after 3 days. Maybe I'm meant to get more or something...


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2010)

This is from the metcam site info
does it definately say mls on the syringe and on the dispensing label?


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

I think if your cat is sixteen and has tumours then it's best to accept that Metacam is excellent for controlling pain and it's more important for the cat to have a comfortable life than a really long life at this point.

I know it's hard, and my mum's cat is currently in its last few days of life with liver cancer. She's been on twice daily Metacam for about three years (for severe mouth problems) as well as regular steroid jabs, though the Metacam has had to stop this past month because of the swelling. I can't help thinking that the drugs have caused the current terminal health problems but it has still been the right thing to do because the cat has not been suffering pain these past three years. Even now she is not suffering, just getting weaker by the day.

My mum's cat was on the 4 kg cat dose of Metacam using the special syringe that comes with Metacam. You'd fill the syringe to the 4 mark, which means 4 kilo cat. That was a long term maintenance dose. The dose with Metacam is crucial and it can be really dangerous to give too much so if you've any worries about that I would definitely ring the vet to make sure.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

GreyHare said:


> This is from the metcam site info
> does it definately say mls on the syringe and on the dispensing label?


Yeah on the label from the vets that they've stuck on the box. Its doesn't have Metacam written on it its just a bog standard syringe with black writing and in ml...

Just off now will take it in with me.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> No that's right its got 15ml bottle and its 4.5ml of whatever solution is in the bottle.


Oh dear.... I don't know what to say here. 

I think there is MAYBE a mistake being made here with dosage.... not the length of dosage bit the amount per day.

Now this could just be as easy as you confusing a ml with a tenth of a ml. That is a VERY easy to mistake to make and totally understandable.

But.... I feel I must say something incase the vet has made a mistake with dosage. 

But......... I absolutely hate giving or even reading drug related advice on the forum so I am kinda all over the place now worrying that I am doing or saying soemthing wrong. 

Plus I am not even sure I am completely awake and doing my sums right. 

OK... the oral metacam I have infront of me right now. The syringe that comes in the box... if you fill that syringe to the top that is 1ml. Are you giving just under half of one of these syringes... or are you giving 4 and half of these syringes??????????

The last cat I dosed with metacam was a 5 kilo cat and it was getting a half of a syringe full per day. Which if I'm not being stupid and getting muddled is 0.5ml. Not 5.0ml.

4.5 ml seems to me a massive amount... do you mean 0.45mls per day ???


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## Pippinpie (Oct 30, 2010)

I would double check with your vet. My cat is on metacam for arthritis and takes it daily. He weighs 6.3kg and his starting dose was drawing the metacam to the 6 on the syringe that was inside the metacam box. This measure corresponds to his weight not the ml. 

He is now on a 4kg maintenance dose and is doing brilliantly. I was very worried about putting him on it but my vet did blood tests first and said he was in so much pain she thought it would be better for him. The difference I have seen with him is amazing. Sometimes you have to go with your vet and do the best for your cats day to day comfort. I know daily metacam will probably shorten his life, but I'd rather he'd have a couple of comfortable years than a few more painful ones.

Please check the doseage with your vet. Hope your cat keep comfortable.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Lulu's owner said:


> I think if your cat is sixteen and has tumours then it's best to accept that Metacam is excellent for controlling pain and it's more important for the cat to have a comfortable life than a really long life at this point.


Totally agree with that .... I didn't want to say it in the earlier posts... but I do think this is what the vet is doing, and (without knowing the whole story) I certainly wouldn't ever knock the use of metacam in situations like these.

I also see you guys (you and GH and Pippinpie) obviously get your metacam with a different syringe than I do, lol, not unusual as drugs/packaging do differ from country to country.

The syringe I have here doesn't have the cat's weight on it... just the "0.5 ml per kilo of bodyweight" instructions... with a 1ml syringe, which if I am not getting my sums completely wrong (which is highly possible as I am crap at maths, lol) would mean that one syringe is enough for 20 kilos of cat???? 
(the initial dose is often double of the maintenance dose, what I am talking about above is the maintenance dose)

Can anyone in the UK check what a 4 kilo cat should be getting dosed for the maintenace dosage. And confirm (or not) if 4.5ml sounds awfully high???


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Pippinpie said:


> I know daily metacam will probably shorten his life, but I'd rather he'd have a couple of comfortable years than a few more painful ones.


totally agree, and what I would choose for myself, not just my cats.

Now I know you guys in the UK get syringes with cats bodyweight on them... then I think all is well and the 4.5 is the OP's cats bodyweight and not the ML amount of metacam

phewwww thanks guys (rather, gals).... I was getting me underwear in terrible knots and twists

GodenShadow, do let us know how you got on at the vets. All the best to you both. :thumbsup:


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## Pippinpie (Oct 30, 2010)

Tje said:


> Totally agree with that .... I didn't want to say it in the earlier posts... but I do think this is what the vet is doing, and (without knowing the whole story) I certainly wouldn't ever knock the use of metacam in situations like these.
> 
> I also see you guys (you and GH and Pippinpie) obviously get your metacam with a different syringe than I do, lol, not unusual as drugs/packaging do differ from country to country.
> 
> ...


If 0.5 ml = 1kg weight then for a 4kg cat is 4 x 0.5 ml = 2ml. That's my simple maths that says it should be a 2ml dose a day. But what I have remembered with metacam is that you double dose on day 1 then go down to the normal dose. I wonder if you should have started higher and then dropped down? Rather than get advice from a forum I would really call your vet to check. Metacam can be easily overdosed so it's best to check with the experts. Hope your cat feels better soon.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Pippinpie said:


> That's my simple maths that says it should be a 2ml dose a day. But what I have remembered with metacam is that you double dose on day 1 then go down to the normal dose. I wonder if you should have started higher and then dropped down? Rather than get advice from a forum I would really call your vet to check. Metacam can be easily overdosed so it's best to check with the experts. Hope your cat feels better soon.


thank you!!!! and I totally agree, this is a question for the vet... not for us on the forum. I too recall that the initial dose is double but for all we know ... well, I spose it's better totally not to speculate.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I have just found an old package of metacam with a syringe that gives both cat weights AND the ml dosage. (and I hope this clarifies and doesnt confuse further)

the total syringe (when full) is 1 ml in size

it has cat weights on one side and mls on the other. 

Now if I look at a 4 kilo cat, it should get 4 tenths of one syringe full so 4 tenths of 1 whole ml. (0.4 ml)

If I look at a 4.5 kilo cat it should get 4.5 parts of 1ml  or just under half a milliliter. (0.45 ml)

but I hasten to add this as forum, none of us (and especially not me, lol) are vets so check and double check everything with your vet. Especially with metacam is this is a drug that has to veryyyyy accurately dosed. I always get the vet to stripe off on the syringe (with a red market pen) what the daily dose is. That way I can never make mistakes. 

I think the OPs cat should be getting 0.45 ml per day. Not 4.5ml per day.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Panic over vets screwed up  I asked the vet nurse where I go (cats aren't registered at this one) and she said the labelling shouldn't say give 4.5*ml* dose it should say give 4.5*kg* dose. She also said I ought to have a special syringe that's got purple on it that came with it and the black one isn't right.

I've just rung up the one the cats go to and apparently there wasn't a syringe in my box and so the receptionist got me another but she should have got me another from another Metacam box not just a black one. They said sometimes they just write the number of dosage not the units on the label so that shouldn't matter when I go and get the right syringe 

Not that impressed with them going to register cat to where I take the dogs and get something from them instead. Tiger has been having 4.5mls, so pretty much the whole small bottle of metacam spread over Fri/Sat/Sun  Cat's vet said don't worry she'll be fine but I'm not sure if I want to trust what they say really. Luckily as she's tricky with meds I don't think she's been having the whole syringe, probably 2/3 at best.

I just want to say, I asked on here because personally I have no idea what Metacam the cat had before or what it was for as I didn't go with her, I've just seen some things off the internet saying its not good and then with other people saying 4.5mls is a lot its made me concerned, hence I asked. I've not got confused between how much I've giving her, I've got a syringe like this:

http://www.abergreen.co.uk/images/10ml_syringe.jpg

It 100% definitely measures in ml, it says so on it.

Tiger is in the vets this afternoon at the one I use so will see what they say about what she needs to have.

Going to put this in bold as I feel some of you think I don't really care enough for Tiger to have her on meds:

*She has shown no signs of being in pain and unhappy, and I was worried that 4.5mls *not* 4.5kg dosage was going to do her severe damage to have it regularly. The vets obviously agree as they said that's way too much for her to have had and say I need a smaller syringe that comes with the Metacam. The dilema in my head was, do I want to fight her to give her tonnes of metacam which the internet says is too much and could do her harm even though she hasn't shown being in any pain (and which upsets her as I have to battler her to get it down her), or would it be better to see how she gets on once this week has finished and give her less stress in terms of not having to force anything down her?*

I'm not the kind of person to let an animal suffer cost isn't an issue either. My dog has been in the vets twice in two weeks not long ago once because he was struggling to open his eye (was playing with other dog think he ran into a bush and got caught) so I went and saw the nurse, then went back later and paid £40 for them to put solution in his eye and check for no scratches even though it looked OK. The other time he cut his pad and I didn't want to wait and see how it was in the morning etc he went to the vets three hours or so after I found it (they said that time was fine). I had my dog have hip x rays because I was *worried* at a cost of £200 and the amount of times even though I know he has allergies when his ears go red I take him anyway even though sometimes it will disappear on its own. I'm so neurotic I had a horse who we found had one large abscesses in each of three hooves yet had not gone lame, I know they can hide pain and so I'm really OTT and cautious when it comes to them. My biggest worry for Tiger is how upset she gets about having meds, I don't want her to start not trusting us at all and getting really stressed every day in her last month or few.

I'm not going to let Tiger suffer but in the same breath if she gets really upset about the medication (I think its mostly the antib's which hopefully will be done with soon) then I don't want to have to fight her every day and cause her to get upset when she has seemed fine in herself for a fair while, and *if* my vets don't think she needs it long term.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GodenShadow....... geez.... what can I say... ?

These things come with special syringes for a reason.

This maybe isn't the time and place to say this, but if you have made an understandable mistake because a vet nurse has given you the wrong syringe, well that is absolutely NOT your fault (but I would be... well said vet nurse had better not cross my path).

I hope it's me who is wrong and not you.

If I can find my camera I will make a photo of what the metacam specific syringe looks like and post it here... suffice to say tho it is tiny compared to the syringe you posted the link for.

_edited to add the following as I didn't read your complete post, I was too focussed on the dosage issues:_
GoldenShadow, I don't think for one minute you don't care for your cat (if anything I believe the complete opposite to be true, I KNOW you love your cat)… I just know how painful it can be for any of us to think "this treatment may kill my cat". I have been here with metacam. I know how tough it is. Only you can make the call and weigh up the pros and cons of her level of pain versus the danger of the drug. If your cat is not in pain, then like you I wouldn't use it. But I would be discussing it in detail with my vet as maybe he/she sees something we don't or he/she is using it for its swelling reducing properties and not just its painkilling properties? Metacam is a NSAID type drug … so it reduces swellings and inflammations as well as working as a painkiller. Maybe this is what your vet is hoping for??? But I 100% agree… talk every angle of this through with your vet.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

The pic of the syringe you posted (link above) was a 10ml syringe, I dont have a 10 ml syringe here for comparison, the normal syringe in the first pic is only 5ml. 

The long skinny syringe is the metacam specific syringe which comes (should come in!!) the metacam box. If I am doing my sums right and reading the metacam syringe properly.. a 4.5 kilo cat gets just under the half of the skinny syringe full, which is a tenth of 4.5 ml. 

If you look closely at the 2nd pic you can see the stripe between the 4 and the 5 well that is the dosage for a 4.5 kilo cat, which is 0.45 mls. 

Again if I am reading all this correctly I *think* your cat has been overdosed to a power of 10. So.. I am not sure I can say anything more except make sure to tell your vet this. 

And I am praying, really praying :that I am wrong! I will be delighted if I am wrong on this post. 

best of luck to the both of you. My thoughts are with you xxxxxx


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tje said:


> GodenShadow....... geez.... what can I say... ?
> 
> These things come with special syringes for a reason.
> 
> ...


I don't know how many actual mls she is meant to have for her weight but we've been trying to get 4.5mls down her each day Fri-Sun  As she isn't good with meds we've probably only managed about 3 mls at most each time, maybe less (I hope).

It was the receptionist who gave Mum the medication (she's got anti b's as well) and they said the receptionist just gave us the wrong one as there wasn't one in our box and units on a label don't really matter its just however much on the syringe you have but as we got the wrong syringe we've been giving the wrong amount.

I think maybe with having dogs I wasn't that concerned at how much liquid was actually in the syringe, I forget how much smaller cats are than dogs and didn't really think, just put it to 4.5.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tje said:


> The pic of the syringe you posted (link above) was a 10ml syringe, I dont have a 10 ml syringe here for comparison, the normal syringe in the first pic is only 5ml.
> 
> The long skinny syringe is the metacam specific syringe which comes (should come in!!) the metacam box. If I am doing my sums right and reading the metacam syringe properly.. a 4.5 kilo cat gets just under the half of the skinny syringe full, which is a tenth of 4.5 ml.
> 
> ...


Oh god that syringe is tiny  I think at best we've got 3mls down her a time, so she's probably had 9mls of the actual stuff but then she did make herself sick after the time on Saturday (maybe the poor sod knew it was too much, she has made herself sick on previous meds too).

She's been toiletting fine and if anything is just a bit more whiney but sometimes she is a bit random with her meowing anyway...


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I don't know how many actual mls she is meant to have for her weight but we've been trying to get 4.5mls down her each day Fri-Sun  As she isn't good with meds we've probably only managed about 3 mls at most each time, maybe less (I hope).


again... bearing in mind I am no vet, no vet nurse, and not trained AT ALL in medicine and I can ABSOLUTELY make mistakes ... I thinks she be getting just under half a mil per day. If you've only managed to get 3 mils in her... then that's an overdose to the power of 6. Better than to the power of 10.



GoldenShadow said:


> It was the receptionist who gave Mum the medication and they said the receptionist just gave us the wrong one as there wasn't one in our box and units on a label don't really matter its just however much on the syringe you have but as we got the wrong syringe we've been giving the wrong amount.


This is NOT you fault. But I would throttle the recpetionist AND the vet.



GoldenShadow said:


> I think maybe with having dogs I wasn't that concerned at how much liquid was actually in the syringe, I forget how much smaller cats are than dogs and didn't really think, just put it to 4.5.


There is no reason WHY you should ever think that 4.5mls is a wrong amount of medicine... there is NO WAY you could know this... none whatsoever. 4.5 mls IS a tiny amount... it just happens to be 10 times too mcuh for this particular drug. It wouldn't be for another drug.



GoldenShadow said:


> Oh god that syringe is tiny I think at best we've got 3mls down her a time, so she's probably had 9mls of the actual stuff but then she did make herself sick after the time on Saturday (maybe the poor sod knew it was too much, she has made herself sick on previous meds too).


Yes the metacam syringe IS tiny.

if you've got 9 mls down her in 3 days, and assuming I am not wrong, then she should have had just under 1.5 mls in these 3 days.

I would be phoning the vet right now and saying I think I have overdosed this cat by somewhere between 6 and 10 times the prescribed dose. And explain to the vet how this happened (you were given a ML syringe instead of a metacam syringe or a syringe that counted in 20th parts of 1ml). He will understand what the implications of 4.5 mls (or 3 mls) daily are. He will also understand completely why this mistake was made (assuming of course there has been a mistake made, and not just me who is making the mistake).

And again, I am PRAYING I am wrong on this one.

All the very best.... big hugs!


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

I'd agree with Tje here hun. Phone your normal vet asap and state that your kitty has had an overdose of Metacam. Put it straight and hopefully you'll get a straight answer as to what to do ... that's one hell of an OD 

Hope your kitty suffers no ill effects, and gets better soon, poor love


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2010)

I agree completely with Tje and Aurelia, but also phone the dispensing vet and speak to the practise manager and put in a complaint about the receptionist as this should not happen ever, hope kitty is ok.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I can't speak to our shelter vets without having a valid reason for one of our shelter cats.... but I did manage to speak to the shelter manager and she agrees with me (in so far as, if I have provided the correct details, then this cat has been overdosed to somewhere between 6 and 10 times). 

Call the vet Golden Shadow.... I will take full blame if I am wrong.

(just heard from a little birdie that my favourite vet nurse should be along any minute now)


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

I have my metacam leaflet here. It says:

Initial treatment is a single oral dose of 0.1mg meloxicam/kg body weight on the first day.
Treatment is to be continued once daily by oral administration (at 24 hr intervals) at a maintenance dose of 0.05 mg meloxicam/kg body weight.

Just to add, when I was giving it to annie for 5 days after her dental, I'm sure I was giving her 0.33 mls daily (when they told me she weighed 3.3kg....)


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

OK

I havent read all of this but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read this!

Get your cat to a vets now.

The maintenance dose for a 4.5kg cat would be about 0.45ml not 4.5ml..... the difference is astronomical and life threatening.

Yes this is harsh, and i know i havent been around too much the last few days with some personal stuff going on at home but having been pointed to this thread please please realise i say this will all concern for the cat in question. He needs urgent vet treatment.

Metacam is a VERY useful drug but a VERY dangerous drug when given incorrectly.

If you wish to confirm my dosages please check here: NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Metacam 0.5 mg/ml Oral Suspension for Cats - Dosage and administration


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Chez87 said:


> Just to add, when I was giving it to annie for 5 days after her dental, I'm sure I was giving her 0.33 mls daily (when they told me she weighed 3.3kg....)


Chez, that adds up (agrees with) with my train of thought. Thanks.


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Just to echo what BBM says, something on the leaflet about overdose says how there is only a narrow therapeutic safety margin in cats and clinical signs of overdose may be seen at relatively small overdose levels.

The adverse reactions that may occur after overdose are vomiting, loss of appetite, diarrhoea, faecal occult blood, apathy and renal failure.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> OK
> 
> I havent read all of this but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read this!
> 
> ...


GMTA my favourite vet nurse.... and don't you dare stay away so long next time. There is no Punch without his Judy, lol. WB my dear.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Just a couple of points. I am getting really confused about the syringe thing and of course the vets are the people to confirm about it but I have to confess that two years ago I overdosed my 4 kilo dog on Metacam for a week after surgery because of confusion over the Metacam (dog) syringe. She was very, very zonked out for that week but I put it down to the surgery and the fact that she was on cage rest. I felt so awful, still do, but she's had tests that show no longterm harm was done, thankfully.

I really wish that syringes had a tear off marker strip or something so that the owner can't make this mistake. My problem was in not recognising that the numbers on the syringe corresponded to pet's weight.

Secondly, like other people have said, I know that the OP cares deeply about her pet and that's why she's questioning use of Metacam. I am having the same concerns about steroid jabs at the moment, with a much younger cat, trying to balance her current state of health against her longer term wellbeing. I just think the decision is slightly easier with an older cat because there is less of a long term consideration, sad though that is.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Just got back from vet Tiger's going to be fine they think.

Vet wasn't convinced she's ingested too much at all. She tried to get her to take something via syringe orally and Tiger did the sicking up/spitting out thing she usually does and vet thinks she's probably had a teeny amount in the whole time and nothing like what the label said to give her (I reckoned she might have been having about 2/3 of the syringe but vet said she spat out every bit of what she gave her, guess I was being optimistic when giving it to her and thought she was taking more). She said as she properly sicked up so soon after the meds on Saturday she thinks a negligible amount would have got into her system if any then as well. She said as they had been prodding and poking her lump and trying to drain it etc she would have thought they'd have given her a higher dose on the first day as it would have been quite sore especially when she moves because its right in the middle of her body and everytime she stretches it stretches the lump too. 

Apparently we've got a really weak version of 0.5 and you can get 1.5 etc. She said she looks OK and as she hasn't been sick/had toiletting problems etc she reckons she will be absolutely fine. She said she'd have expected to see a problem by now in some way shape or form if her body couldn't deal with it but that she is a very healthy looking cat especially for 16 and not to worry too much.

She didn't want to blood test her as with her lump bleeding periodically she doesn't want her body to struggle to make it all back up. I've got to try and get a urine sample but she said if not its not the end of the world but it'd help to know how her kidneys are doing anyway. She said she's seen cats who've had a metacam OD before and they look and act very different to Tiger which is why she isn't that worried.

My vets are more concerned as to why they gave her metacam when she's had kidney issues and without testing what her kidneys were like when they could have given her something else. They're going to ring the vet she went to on Fri and find out why they gave what they did and who printed the label, they were really OTT saying a misprint on a label is really bad etc and the syringe isn't as relevant.

ETA: I've just seen more recent posts, I did say she was going to the vet I'm sure I did, I wasn't just going to leave her and hope :confused1:


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Just got back from vet Tiger's going to be fine they think.
> 
> Vet wasn't convinced she's ingested too much at all. She tried to get her to take something via syringe orally and Tiger did the sicking up/spitting out thing she usually does and vet thinks she's probably had a teeny amount in the whole time and nothing like what the label said to give her (I reckoned she might have been having about 2/3 of the syringe but vet said she spat out every bit of what she gave her, guess I was being optimistic when giving it to her and thought she was taking more). She said as she properly sicked up so soon after the meds on Saturday she thinks a negligible amount would have got into her system if any then as well. She said as they had been prodding and poking her lump and trying to drain it etc she would have thought they'd have given her a higher dose on the first day as it would have been quite sore especially when she moves because its right in the middle of her body and everytime she stretches it stretches the lump too.
> 
> ...


That must be such a relief for you, thank goodness your puss is OK. It's a terrible mistake for a vet's surgery to make, though.

I really do wish that the syringes for use with such powerful drugs could be made foolproof, especially after my own error with Metacam a couple of years ago. It would surely only add a few pence to the cost of a syringe to put a perforated tear off strip round it which the vet could remove at the appropriate point?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Just got back from vet Tiger's going to be fine they think.
> 
> Vet wasn't convinced she's ingested too much at all. Apparently we've got a really weak version of 0.5 and you can get 1.5 etc.


Just to clarify, it was the 0.5 mg/ml version I was talking about.

And...... * if* she ingested 3 mls of the 4.5 mls you were supposed to give her... I simply don't trust your vet here. I am afraid he/she is trying to cover their own ar$e because a massive overdose has occured (or could have occured rather, and it would all have been the vets fault or his receptionists fault).

Did you confirm with the vet that the actual daily dose for your cat (after day 1) should have been 0.45 mls per day?

I can well understand that you have a syringe with 4.5 mls but the majority of that doesn't actually go down her throat.. (thank the lord).. lots of it gets spat out and dribbles all over her face and neck etc... but i do think it is paramount that your vet admit that through a fault of his (or his receptionist) that this cat was supposed to be given 10 times what it was should have been given.

editing to add: just realised this an other vet than the one who prescribed the metacam... I still would want concrete answers why you were led to believe 4.5mls was the daily dose (instead of 0.45 mls) and this mistake was in NO WAY yours. I would be very worried the second vet is partially covering the forst vet by not condeming outright. I also agree that kidney issues (and liver issues) and metacam are a bad combination... well what I tried to avoid saying in my first post.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Lulu's owner said:


> That must be such a relief for you, thank goodness your puss is OK. It's a terrible mistake for a vet's surgery to make, though.
> 
> I really do wish that the syringes for use with such powerful drugs could be made foolproof, especially after my own error with Metacam a couple of years ago. It would surely only add a few pence to the cost of a syringe to put a perforated tear off strip round it which the vet could remove at the appropriate point?


If the vet had even shown us how much on the syringe maybe she'd have realised we didn't have one and given us a Metacam one and not the ml one like the receptionist. I can't believe we got given a ml syringe, the receptionist who was on was a 17 year old student and feels really bad apparently. But surely she shouldn't be dispensing the drugs and printing the labels if she doesn't know much about them yet??

My vets said one of their nurses used to work there part time and apparently it was common for them to give out meds without any labels on at all or for different animals/wrong guidelines on :nonod:


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Lulu's owner said:


> I really do wish that the syringes for use with such powerful drugs could be made foolproof, especially after my own error with Metacam a couple of years ago. It would surely only add a few pence to the cost of a syringe to put a perforated tear off strip round it which the vet could remove at the appropriate point?


LO, I keep a paint paint in the car. I use it for marking kittens and cats paws... anywayyyyy with drugs.... I get this pen and I make the vet put a stripe on the actual syringe.... that way I can't do it wrong. Like you said, these mistakes are SO easy to make for us mere mortals.

you could of course do this (stripe on the syringe) with a waterproof marker pen... but that line fades after days and a paint pen, well it's paint and it lasts much longer.

But even when the vet puts the stripe on the syringe... I still come home, read the paper in the box and double check. It wont be the first time I have caught vets out for giving wrong doses or wrong duration of treatment. Tho to be fair, sometimes when they explain why they are doing it "different to the label" then I understand.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> If the vet had even shown us how much on the syringe maybe she'd have realised we didn't have one and given us a Metacam one and not the ml one like the receptionist. I can't believe we got given a ml syringe, the receptionist who was on was a 17 year old student and feels really bad apparently. But surely she shouldn't be dispensing the drugs and printing the labels if she doesn't know much about them yet??
> 
> My vets said one of their nurses used to work there part time and apparently it was common for them to give out meds without any labels on at all or for different animals/wrong guidelines on :nonod:


It's weird that the receptionist was doing such responsible work. At my vet's the only people who print out labels and give you syringes are the vets themselves. I think I would be changing vets and maybe complaining to the RCVS if this happened to one of my animals. I wouldn't blame the poor kid who made the mistake, more the vets in charge of the surgery who allowed this to happen.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> If the vet had even shown us how much on the syringe maybe she'd have realised we didn't have one and given us a Metacam one and not the ml one like the receptionist. I can't believe we got given a ml syringe, the receptionist who was on was a 17 year old student and feels really bad apparently. But surely she shouldn't be dispensing the drugs and printing the labels if she doesn't know much about them yet??
> 
> My vets said one of their nurses used to work there part time and apparently it was common for them to give out meds without any labels on at all or for different animals/wrong guidelines on :nonod:


again... this is NOT your fault. This is the vets fault (or the fault of the practice who dispensed the metacam). 17 year old girls don't or shouldn't give out drugs, this is insane and negligence on the part of the vet practice. The vet that prescribed the metacam is really *badly* wrong here and I for one would not leave this issue unadressed. Your cat is alive. The next cat this happens with might not be so lucky. We are not talking double dosing here... we are talking a 10 fold overdose .... and all because a vet leave sa 17 year old girl to do a vets work. Criminal, totally criminal. Again though, I can't blame YOU in the least. This is THEIR fault, not yours.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Lulu's owner said:


> It's weird that the receptionist was doing such responsible work. At my vet's the only people who print out labels and give you syringes are the vets themselves. I think I would be changing vets and maybe complaining to the RCVS if this happened to one of my animals. I wouldn't blame the poor kid who made the mistake, more the vets in charge of the surgery who allowed this to happen.


looks like we were posting at the same time and saying the same thing... this is pure negligence!

it's not the OP's fault and it's not the 17 yr old receptionists fault... its the vets fault. He shoudl never leave a kid to do this kind of work.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Tje said:


> LO, I keep a paint paint in the car. I use it for marking kittens and cats paws... anywayyyyy with drugs.... I get this pen and I make the vet put a stripe on the actual syringe.... that way I can't do it wrong. Like you said, these mistakes are SO easy to make for us mere mortals.
> 
> you could of course do this (stripe on the syringe) with a waterproof marker pen... but that line fades after days and a paint pen, well it's paint and it lasts much longer.
> 
> But even when the vet puts the stripe on the syringe... I still come home, read the paper in the box and double check. It wont be the first time I have caught vets out for giving wrong doses or wrong duration of treatment. Tho to be fair, sometimes when they explain why they are doing it "different to the label" then I understand.


Yes, good idea, I think I'll take my own paint pen with me next time! I've never had a problem with the vet, all errors have been my own, but the multiplicity of syringes and markings doesn't help those of us without a maths degree. I had to give my mum's poor dying cat some laxative the other day and I woke up in a cold sweat in the night wondering if I'd given 10x the dose. I went downstairs and experimented with a syringe and a jug of water till I'd satisfied myself that I had given the correct dose.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tje said:


> Just to clarify, it was the 0.5 mg/ml version I was talking about.
> 
> And...... * if* she ingested 3 mls of the 4.5 mls you were supposed to give her... I simply don't trust your vet here. I am afraid he/she is trying to cover their own ar$e because a massive overdose has occured (or could have occured rather, and it would all have been the vets fault or his receptionists fault).
> 
> ...


The vet I took the cat to just this morning is the vet I use for my dogs, different to the practice who prescribed the metacam etc on Fri.

I don't know how much mls Tiger should have had the vet just brought a box of Metacam out with a syringe with purple writing on which I think is what everyone here was mentioning about kg markings?? She pulled the plunger to 4.5kg and said that is what she thinks she should have been having according to their guidelines, but I don't know how many mls is was to that mark?

My vets in no way would cover the arse of the other vets, trust me. When my dog hurt his eye I took him to them just round the corner as I couldn't get across town to take him to the usual one (who the cat went to on Fri). They had to contact the old ones and in the end I registered Rupert there before he even saw the vet because they said the practice and others get really bad about 'stealing clients' and some have tried to get them in trouble for it. They sent the notes across for the dog straight away and the vet was ranting about how they've had the notes for 6 weeks yet not put them on a computer yet (they were supposed to be writing them up to recommend what to do about my dog's boosters as he has allergies) and they hadn't gotten around to it. I get the impression my vets really don't like them to be honest, I half expected them to bad mouth them a bit over this.

This is why I took Tiger to my vets and not the one across town, I wouldn't trust anything they'd say. Re the 3ml thing, that is estimation on my part. Whenever you give Tiger something she does what my horse used to do, I massage her throat to try and get her to swallow and she resists and resists and then goes and sort of spits it all out. I don't know how much she was spitting out but in my optimism was thinking she was probably having 2/3 of what I was giving her but the vet who gave her something today (just a sugar solution thing she wanted to see how she takes to meds as she is back on Fri and they will prescribe her something then and will try and get something different if liquids are really bad). Anyway I said yeah that's about the same amount as what she has been doing and the vet said looking at that she wouldn't prescribe her something orally unless she licks at it herself because there is nowhere near enough going into her to do any good.

I can't get over how much difference there is between what she should have been having and what we were giving her. Now I've got my cat head on it seems like loads but I think because I'm so used to being more with the dogs that amount of liquid didn't seem like an awful lot...


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I don't know how much mls Tiger should have had the vet just brought a box of Metacam out with a syringe with purple writing on which I think is what everyone here was mentioning about kg markings?? She pulled the plunger to 4.5kg and said that is what she thinks she should have been having according to their guidelines, but I don't know how many mls is was to that mark?


well... according to my syringe... 4.5kg on the weight scale corresponds with 0.45ml on the ml scale. (and I am talking about the weaker 0.5 mg/ml version). I know you say one vet would never cover for another... but simply... this isn't adding up.

That your cat didn't ingest 4.5mls is an entirely different matter to your cat being prescribed 4.5 mls. How was the vet to know you would have trouble giving the meds? That the cat would spit it out? They assume we give what we're told to give, and simply, by being given the wrong syringe you were told to give 10 times the prescribed amount for a cat of that size.

And I can only say in your position I would not rest for one second until this was adressed properly. What your vet needs to do is show you the difference between 0.45 and 4.5 and tel you what would have happened if you had succeeded in getting 4.5mls in to your cat.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Lulu's owner said:


> It's weird that the receptionist was doing such responsible work. At my vet's the only people who print out labels and give you syringes are the vets themselves. I think I would be changing vets and maybe complaining to the RCVS if this happened to one of my animals. I wouldn't blame the poor kid who made the mistake, more the vets in charge of the surgery who allowed this to happen.


At the vets the dogs go to the vet gets all the stuff out the back and the receptionist gives it to us. At the old one when Rupert went the vet gave me his stuff to be fair and there isn't actually a label on either of the things he had (Epi Otic ear drops and Surolan ear drops).



Tje said:


> again... this is NOT your fault. This is the vets fault (or the fault of the practice who dispensed the metacam). 17 year old girls don't or shouldn't give out drugs, this is insane and negligence on the part of the vet practice. The vet that prescribed the metacam is really *badly* wrong here and I for one would not leave this issue unadressed. Your cat is alive. The next cat this happens with might not be so lucky. We are not talking double dosing here... we are talking a 10 fold overdose .... and all because a vet leave sa 17 year old girl to do a vets work. Criminal, totally criminal. Again though, I can't blame YOU in the least. This is THEIR fault, not yours.


I should have realised that amount of liquid was too much meds for a cat but it didn't dawn on me until I saw how small the Metacam syringe is on here 

Do you know if you're meant to get dosage instructions or anything in the Metacam box or do you just get the box, syringe and the bottle of metacam?


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

I got instructions in my metacam box, along with the syringe. So yes, you should get instructions.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tje said:


> well... according to my syringe... 4.5kg on the weight scale corresponds with 0.45ml on the ml scale. (and I am talking about the weaker 0.5 mg/ml version). I know you say one vet would never cover for another... but simply... this isn't adding up.
> 
> That your cat didn't ingest 4.5mls is an entirely different matter to your cat being prescribed 4.5 mls. How was the vet to know you would have trouble giving the meds? That the cat would spit it out? They assume we give what we're told to give, and simply, by being given the wrong syringe you were told to give 10 times the prescribed amount for a cat of that size.
> 
> And I can only say in your position I would not rest for one second until this was adressed properly. What your vet needs to do is show you the difference between 0.45 and 4.5 and tel you what would have happened if you had succeeded in getting 4.5mls in to your cat.


I don't want to know what a proper 4.5mls daily for three days would do to a cat :nonod:

From what they said when I rang them earlier they said it was the units on the label that were wrong as it says 4.5ml not 4.5kg, and so it wasn't actually intended to be 10 x that much. I don't know if we're ever going to know why the label says something else, part of me thinks if I'd had the Metacam syringe I would have just put it to 4.5kg mark probably anyway and not have even noticed the difference on the bottle, might have just thought 'oh I bet they mean kg' etc  But it went the opposite way, if it had said 4.5kg and the syringe was in mls I would have rung them up and asked you see, but as the units on the bottle and syringe matched I didn't doubt it was right...


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

just caught up.

I have to say for the sake of other animals at that practice you MUST put in a formal complaint.

This vet PRESCRIBED 4.5ml not 0.45ml.... this is a MASSIVE MASSIVE mistake and must never ever happen again.

Your cat isnt out of the woods yet, and so this must be followed up, please keep a very very close eye on her.

As for the syringe debate, the only issue is the size of the syringe given. a 1ml syringe is just as adequate and useable as a trademarked metacam syringe. However had you been given a 5/10/20/30/50ml syringe it would be impossible to get the right dosage as the graduations are just not fine enough.

Back to the vets comments about how much was ingested, thats really hear nor there, as there is absoloutly no way of scientifically checking this without full blood testing, urine analysis and fecal analysis. syringing some sugar water down is not a test!!!! its a way to fob you off!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Chez87 said:


> I got instructions in my metacam box, along with the syringe. So yes, you should get instructions.


OK thanks, we didn't have any instructions in our box either then 

Will try and get you a photo of the cat this is about


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I should have realised that amount of liquid was too much meds for a cat but it didn't dawn on me until I saw how small the Metacam syringe is on here


NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... there was no way for you to know this amount is 10 times too much. Many cat meds WOULD and ARE dosed at 4.5mls. Just not this particular one.



GoldenShadow said:


> Do you know if you're meant to get dosage instructions or anything in the Metacam box or do you just get the box, syringe and the bottle of metacam?


Yes, I have only ever been given oral metacam (meloxicam) in a box complete with a bottle of the suspension, a manufacturers label, and a special syringe made by the manufacturer. And I use a LOT of different vets as I have rescue cats and move around a fair bit. I have never been given it without the syringe and without the manufacturers own printed label.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

I have been given metacam in a non-manufacturers bottle or box, however i have always been given an instruction sheet AND full product instructions. Ive also been given it for a 2 day post pyo course pre measured in syringes for me, and another time in a dropper bottle as the instructions also give the dosage in drops


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2010)

Don't beat yourself up Golden Shadow your cat vet is at fault here with the receptionist as she should have checked if she didn't know what syringe went with it, so I think you should complain to them and also not visit them again and stick with your dog vet as they sound much more competent.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I don't want to know what a proper 4.5mls daily for three days would do to a cat :nonod:
> 
> From what they said when I rang them earlier they said it was the units on the label that were wrong as it says 4.5ml not 4.5kg, and so it wasn't actually intended to be 10 x that much. I don't know if we're ever going to know why the label says something else, part of me thinks if I'd had the Metacam syringe I would have just put it to 4.5kg mark probably anyway and not have even noticed the difference on the bottle, might have just thought 'oh I bet they mean kg' etc  But it went the opposite way, if it had said 4.5kg and the syringe was in mls I would have rung them up and asked you see, but as the units on the bottle and syringe matched I didn't doubt it was right...


noooo if you had had the proper syringe you could never had made this mistake as it does not matter which scale you follow (the ML amount or the cat weight amount) as both of them are the exact same. I wil try and make another photo for you where you can see the syringe plunger set at 4.5 on the weight scales corresponds identically to 0.45 on the ML scale. And since the syringe only goes up to 1 ml, it would be impossible to overdose more than double... and totally and utterly impossible to overdose by a factor of 10. It sounds tricky now cos you can't see the actual syringe, but when you have it infrnt of you it's easy.

With one major exception, and this is where Lulu's Owner went wrong... day 1 is almost always a double dose (unless metacam was injected prior to starting on the oral suspension) so I do agree with Lulu Owners that it is VERY easy to doube dose.

I'll go and see if I can make some better pics with this syringe.

This is soooo NOT your fault.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

billyboysmammy said:


> just caught up.
> 
> I have to say for the sake of other animals at that practice you MUST put in a formal complaint.
> 
> ...


That was partly my vet starting her diagnosis of what to give Tiger. They are seeing her on Friday properly (they don't do consultations all day I went when they had a gap in surgery) and she tried to give her a sugar solution to see if she'd take it or not and she said from what she spat out she wont be prescribing something that has to go down her throat because its just not going to get in. It wasn't really a test for how much Metacam she's had, they will give her something on Friday and from what she did she said she will try and get something for her that hopefully she will like enough to eat/lick or that is pretty scent and tasteless and can go on her food.

I can't see my vets covering for the others but even so will be keeping a very close eye on Tiger. I don't think my vets are amazing, they still recommend boosters yearly although using a manufacturer who recommend them three yearly etc, so I know ought to pretty much always be questioned especially when it comes to animals. Learned the hard way with the cat though 



Tje said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... there was no way for you to know this amount is 10 times too much. Many cat meds WOULD and ARE dosed at 4.5mls. Just not this particular one.
> 
> Yes, I have only ever been given oral metacam (meloxicam) in a box complete with a bottle of the suspension, a manufacturers label, and a special syringe made by the manufacturer. And I use a LOT of different vets as I have rescue cats and move around a fair bit. I have never been given it without the syringe and without the manufacturers own printed label.


The boxes aren't meant to be sealed or anything are they? Just wondering if maybe the one we got was used to show someone what it was and maybe that's why there wasn't a leaflet or a syringe, I can't think why they wouldn't have been in there. The bottle was definitely sealed though...


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

both of the following pics were made with the plunger set at the weight for your (GoldenShadow's) cat. I didn't change the plunger between the pics, just turned the syringe around (as it's impossible to photograph the back of something)

The first pic shows the weight scale on the plunger (which is set to 4.5 kilos)

The second pic shows the ML scale which is also set to 4.5... but 4.5 of a 1 mililter whole. Not 4.5 mililiters. 4.5 of one ml is 0.45 ml.

I hope Golden Shadow if you can see these pics (in a bit of detail) you realise this mistake was in no way your fault. You were give te worng syrineg and any of us would have made the same mistake. Heck I had to read your post 15 times before I coudl even admit it. Because this is very tricky, and this is the *exact reason *the manufacturers made these special syringes. To make it easier for us so we can't overdose. Anyone given a 10ml syringe to dispense oral meloxicam to a 4.5 cat would have made the same mistake. Well at least I would have... and I have used it more often than many!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> The boxes aren't meant to be sealed or anything are they? Just wondering if maybe the one we got was used to show someone what it was and maybe that's why there wasn't a leaflet or a syringe, I can't think why they wouldn't have been in there. The bottle was definitely sealed though...


as far as I can recall, the box is never sealed... just the suspension comes in a bottle that is sealed and we should be the one to crack that seal.

Inside the box you should have 3 things
1. a bottle of the liquid medicine (10 mls or 15 ml size bottles usually)
2. the manufacturers leaflet about the drug
3. the manufacturers special syringe for this drug

Like BBM said though, if they say for instance buy in bulk, then I can imagine you get a bottle of liquid that doesn't come in its own box. But then the vet usually prints off his computer a few pages of A4 with the maufacturers guidelines on them, and he gives you the special metacam syringe.

I have NEVER heard of an vet anywhere dispense metacam in such a shoddy way as it was given to you.

The way this was dispensed was asking for an accidental overdose.


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## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

The bottles always always always come in boxes, no matter if they're bought in bulk or not, they will always come in an individual box with bottle, leaflet and syringe in.

Sometimes, someone will nick a syringe from a bottle to use elsewhere as the boxes aren't sealed. So, whoever is giving out the medication should check the syringe is in there.

I work in a big veterinary hospital, and we have a dispensing nurse who hands out all the drugs the vet puts up labels for. When I hand out metacam I always ask if the client has used the drug before, and if not I show them how to draw it up and to where on the syringe it is. Where I work only qualified nurses and vets are allowed to put up drugs, student nurses must get everything checked and counter signed and receptionists aren't allowed anywhere near the drugs. Everything we hand out we initial so that IF there were to be a problem it can easily be traced and that person reprimanded!!
I suggest you complain to your vets and recommend they implement something like we do so that mistakes are minimised as I think they have been very negligent letting this happen.

This wasn't your fault AT ALL. You were just doing what you were told and you had no reason to believe otherwise, as has been said, 4,5mls metacam is a lot for a cat, but 4.5mls of another liquid, say antepsin, is not a lot, so you really were not to know. She may not have ingested it all, but there is the potential she has had a 10x overdose if she did/were to ingest it all. If she were mine, I would be getting her kidney function tested to ensure no damage had been done, and I would be insisting the vets who made the initial mistake paid for it.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Doolally said:


> I suggest you complain to your vets and recommend they implement something like we do so that mistakes are minimised as I think they have been very negligent letting this happen.
> 
> This wasn't your fault AT ALL. You were just doing what you were told and you had no reason to believe otherwise, as has been said, 4,5mls metacam is a lot for a cat, but 4.5mls of another liquid, say antepsin, is not a lot, so you really were not to know. She may not have ingested it all, but there is the potential she has had a 10x overdose if she did/were to ingest it all. If she were mine, I would be getting her kidney function tested to ensure no damage had been done, and I would be insisting the vets who made the initial mistake paid for it.


I totally agree with all of this. Would this fall under negligence/mal-practice kind of thing? I cannot believe that vets treat any drugs they dispense in such a sloppy way, but certainly not one like Metacam. This whole post has left a terrible tatse in my mouth, it really has. (and again GlodenShadow that is NOT a dig at you in any way, shape or form, this could have and would have happened to anyone). Is there some kind of procedure in place where you can report instances like this? Would the RCVS do anything about it do you think? Surely something more has to happen than just a polite reminder that they don't have a proper drug dispensal protocol in place. Ohhhh I am too angry to think and am just getting all emotional now. Something that rarely (if ever) happens when I post on an internet forum. But this is .... awful.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tje said:


> I totally agree with all of this. Would this fall under negligence/mal-practice kind of thing? I cannot believe that vets treat any drugs they dispense in such a sloppy way, but certainly not one like Metacam. This whole post has left a terrible tatse in my mouth, it really has. (and again GlodenShadow that is NOT a dig at you in any way, shape or form, this could have and would have happened to anyone). Is there some kind of procedure in place where you can report instances like this? Would the RCVS do anything about it do you think? Surely something more has to happen than just a polite reminder that they don't have a proper drug dispensal protocol in place. Ohhhh I am too angry to think and am just getting all emotional now. Something that rarely (if ever) happens when I post on an internet forum. But this is .... awful.


This is what I'm wondering because I feel bad complaining when I think I should have realised it was so much liquid for a cat and cats are quite small animals. I don't see any point in actually complaining to the practice they didn't bat an eyelid when I or my vets called them up so I doubt they would even take note of it  But in the same breath maybe if I complained about the fact the vet or somebody trained wasn't giving out drugs, then that is still valid?

Do you know how long a kidney function test from urine takes to come back? I'm wondering if it could be worth her having a blood test instead but I get the impression blood might take longer to come back, but saying that I can't see me getting a pee sample off her at this rate...Will ask the vets.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> This is what I'm wondering because I feel bad complaining when I think I should have realised it was so much liquid for a cat and cats are quite small animals. I don't see any point in actually complaining to the practice they didn't bat an eyelid when I or my vets called them up so I doubt they would even take note of it  But in the same breath maybe if I complained about the fact the vet or somebody trained wasn't giving out drugs, then that is still valid?
> 
> Do you know how long a kidney function test from urine takes to come back? I'm wondering if it could be worth her having a blood test instead but I get the impression blood might take longer to come back, but saying that I can't see me getting a pee sample off her at this rate...Will ask the vets.


Why should you realise what amount of liquid they should be getting re the medication, you go to a vets and pay for their expertise and professionalism and thats means trusting them when they dispense medication to you for cat, you have no veterinary training so you go by what your vet has told/dispensed to you, I feel that they have let you down hugely and their action are boarding on dangerous/negligent and you stop giving the medication because you thought something was wrong but many people wouldn't, I do think you need to make a proper complaint to them.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GreyHare said:


> Why should you realise what amount of liquid they should be getting re the medication, you go to a vets and pay for their expertise and professionalism and thats means trusting them when they dispense medication to you for cat, you have no veterinary training so you go by what your vet has told/dispensed to you, I feel that they have let you down hugely and their action are boarding on dangerous/negligent and you stop giving the medication because you thought something was wrong but many people wouldn't, I do think you need to make a proper complaint to them.


just agreeing with Greyhare. There is no way you could have known 4.5mls was a 10 x overdose. NO WAY! Heck they didn't even give you the manufacturers leaflet. And more importantly, they didn't give you the CORRECT syringe, by giving you the wrong syringe they are practically guaranteeing wrong dosage. This drug simply cannot be dosed in a 10ml syringe. That is the equivalent of us trying to measure out a quarter teaspoon on baking powder using a garden shovel when we should be using a teaspoon. Not even a vet could dose accurately (@ 0.45 ml) with a 10 ml syringe.

If you'd been the right syringe you would have dosed properly. I am sureof that. (ok a slight possibility you would have double dosed as LO explained happened to her, but no way you would have dosed by a multiple of 10... that is THEIR fault).

And lol, that is spoken by someone who never hides on this forum when blame has to be apportioned. I see and read plenty of sheer stupidity in this forum and never ever shy away from saying when cat owners are stupid, or sit on the fence to keep the peace. This is so not the case with you. You ... well it was an accident than many of us (the majority of us) would have made just as easily!

If the vet practice won't take your complaint seriously then .... well I would be straight on the phone to the RCVS to ask what the official complaint procedure is.

This not a minor mistake they made, this is a MAJOR mistake. I have come across quite a few dodgy things (and mistakes) with vets, but this one really takes the biscuit. In all honesty, it is the worst vet-mistake I have ever heard of, as it was so easily preventable. And their "couldn't give a damn" attitude now, well that just makes it all the worse.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

I completely agree with the other posts here. This mistake was inexcusable on the part of the vets' surgery, and probably the tip of the iceberg of sloppy, dangerous practises that they presumably use to save money and maximise profits. I'm sure a 17 year old receptionist's time costs a lot less than that of a qualified vet, but you are paying for a vet's expertise. They have professional obligations to meet, and delegating their own work to an unqualified teenager is very shoddy and must breach their professional requirements. 

The people in charge of the surgery that made this error need a kick up the pants and a complaint to their regulatory body is the way to do it, not just an internal complaint which can be fobbed off.


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## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> This is what I'm wondering because I feel bad complaining when I think I should have realised it was so much liquid for a cat and cats are quite small animals. I don't see any point in actually complaining to the practice they didn't bat an eyelid when I or my vets called them up so I doubt they would even take note of it  But in the same breath maybe if I complained about the fact the vet or somebody trained wasn't giving out drugs, then that is still valid?
> 
> Do you know how long a kidney function test from urine takes to come back? I'm wondering if it could be worth her having a blood test instead but I get the impression blood might take longer to come back, but saying that I can't see me getting a pee sample off her at this rate...Will ask the vets.


Please complain. Write a letter (i'll help you draft one if you like to get the key concerns across), and if they don't respond satisfactorily then take it to the RCVS, but I don't think you should go to the RCVS without giving them a chance to redeem themselves first.

The vets should test the urine straight away, every vet has urine dipsticks and a refractometer to do this. The urine test will show if the kidneys are leaking protein, and how well the kidneys are concentrating urine.
The blood tests show if the kidneys are filtering the toxins out of the blood effectively, most vets will be able to run these tests in-house these days, some will have to send them off but the results will be back within a few days max. I really do think you should get both tests done to ensure no damage has been done (and get original vets to pay for them!!!write that into your complaint letter)


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

Only just stumbled on this since I have been revising all the last day or so.



Tje said:


> If you'd been the right syringe you would have dosed properly. I am sureof that.


Not necessarily since the dosing instructions were for 4.5ml on the label. So if following those then you would give 4 and a half 1ml syringes which would be rather odd and hopefully trigger some questions but not for sure. But it is the vets fault whatever way you look at it.

GoldenShadow you said that your vets were more concerned with the dosing instructions than the stupid syringe choice (although I suppose the girl on reception was just going by the label and decided that a 10ml syringe would be needed for the 4.5ml) and I really agree with that. This is far more the vets fault than anyone elses. Mistakes with drug dosing are very dangerous and should not happen. It might seem like a small mistake or typo to make but with massive consequences. If it had said 4.5kg you would have probably realised something was up when you looked at a 10ml syringe and wondered what on earth to give your poor cat. I usually try to stick up for vets a bit but this is inexcusable.

I was once given an ointment by my doctors which was 10 times stronger than it should have been thanks to a slip of a decimal point. Thank god I noticed and complained to the doctors. If this was your own medicine that had been given in a dose 10x greater than intended then you would certainly complain. I don't see that it should be any different because it is an animal.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

I think it would be a travesty for you not to go to the RCVS with this hun. Imagine the same mistake happening and someone elses cat or kitten dying because of it. From what you have said they are known for the laxness ... eventually it will be at the cost of someones poor beloved pets life


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I don't know if there is any point in me saying or writing anything to the vets in question, my vets rang them yesterday and they didn't seem that bothered, they said it was kind of like 'alls well that ends well' and they don't think I should even bother communicating with them except to request they pay for the cat's tests and the appt she had the other day.

I will look into writing a letter to the RCVS, I'm guessing that's probably the best way to do it. I would feel really bad if someone's cat got hurt but I think because its me and my cat I just think I ought to have noticed  She had Metacam a few years ago but to be honest it was at least three years ago if not more and I doubt my Mum who gave it to her then would have remembered what the correct syringe looked like. I only gave it to her Sunday as its just me home in the week so needed to see how to go about it, Mum did it the other two times.

I'm quite grateful she's a bit on the chubby side now, that probably helped matters  Will ring about a blood test tomorrow her lump hasn't bled at all today, any tips on how to get a pee sample from a cat?


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I don't know if there is any point in me saying or writing anything to the vets in question, my vets rang them yesterday and they didn't seem that bothered, they said it was kind of like 'alls well that ends well' and they don't think I should even bother communicating with them except to request they pay for the cat's tests and the appt she had the other day.


What a terrible attitude! They were probably trying to down play it so that it didn't seem like such a big deal as it actually is. They should have apologised profusely at the very least.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

HannahKate said:


> What a terrible attitude! They were probably trying to down play it so that it didn't seem like such a big deal as it actually is. They should have apologised profusely at the very least.


Apparently the person who answered the phone was but they could hear the vet in the background and when they spoke to the one on she said it was only a mistake and there was no harm done. I think she thinks it's all the 17 year olds fault.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Yes it was a mistake and no harm was done THIS TIME. Seriously it should be addressed hun! Your kitty hopefully got of lightly, but if they continue to let unqualified people dispense medicines they should be reported so it can be addressed properly. I know you would be mortified if you discovered another pet wasn't so lucky, knowing you could have tried to do something.

I would also call the RCVS, and send the letter on afterwards. I personally think this is something that should be addressed with urgency.

Here are the contact details for the relevant department at the RCVS Email: [email protected] Telephone: 020 7202 0789


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

HannahKate said:


> Not necessarily since the dosing instructions were for 4.5ml on the label. So if following those then you would give 4 and a half 1ml syringes which would be rather odd and hopefully trigger some questions but not for sure. But it is the vets fault whatever way you look at it.


Indeed HK, not necessarily, but I still think given the correct syringe and the correct packaging this would never have happened or the chances of it happening would have been dramitcally decreased.

1. if I give a metacam syringe to 10 people and ask them to draw up 4.5ml, I am sure 9 of them will draw up 4.5 of 1ml (or 0.45ml).... that's just the power of suggestion. Remember, most people aren't vet students. Give them a (any) syringe that goes to 10, ask for for 4.5, and that's what you'll get. 
2. if the OP had been given the correct syringe she would have had a double control... the amount of liquid AND more importantly the weight of the cat is on the syringe.
3. if the OP had been given metacam in the way the manufacturers meant for it to be dispensed, not only would she have had the correct syringe (with weights on it) she would have had the maufacturers leaflet where everything is explained pretty well
4. I think most people would sniff something is wrong if they had to fill a syringe 5 times just to dose their cat. That alone would set alarm bells ringing and would send most people reaching for the leaflet that comes with the meds, or phoning their vet or something. I don't know any cat meds that use 5 syringes full.

So I tend to think (although this is a pointless discussion as we're all agreed it's 100% the vet's fault) that had all of the 4 steps above been in place, no mistake would have been made. Miss one step and the risk of overdose increases, miss 2 steps and the risk increases dramatically, miss all 4... then you get a cat dosed at 10 times what it should have been.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I don't know if there is any point in me saying or writing anything to the vets in question, my vets rang them yesterday and they didn't seem that bothered, they said it was kind of like 'alls well that ends well' and they don't think I should even bother communicating with them except to request they pay for the cat's tests and the appt she had the other day.


I know Doolally above advised that before contacting the RCVS that you give the vet the chance to rectify this situation, but seeing as they are still playing the "this is no big deal, the cat is still alive" card, that for me is reason enough to think "ok, I tried to let them rectify their own mistake, however they're not taking this seriously, time to go to the RCVS". You've given them their chance, they didn't take it.



GoldenShadow said:


> but I think because its me and my cat I just think I ought to have noticed


again, this is simply not true... go back to page one of this thread... look at my contributions... I was pretty sure for a good hour and half that you had OD-ed your cat... but I couldn't come right out and say it because I was getting more and more confused myself, and the thought that a vet would give a 10ml syringe to dose metacam with... well that is soooo ridiculous that it would simply never have come into my head. Believe me, if I thought you'd been "sleeping on the job", I would say it. I rile half of this forum on a regular basis because I am so outspoken. But you did nothing wrong!!

Almost everyone given the syringe and the instructions you'd been given would have dispended the same amount of meds. 4.5ml instructions and a 10ml syringe... most 8 year olds would get that "right" as you got it "right". You gave the "right" amount of meds.... it was the vet who made 2 (well actually about 4 or 5) very bad mistakes. He wrote down ML instead of KG and he compounded this mistake by giving the wrong syringe (and no leaflet in the box and no actual talk on what kind of drug metacam is, and how precisely it must be dosed, and the implications of O.D).



GoldenShadow said:


> I'm quite grateful she's a bit on the chubby side now, that probably helped matters  Will ring about a blood test tomorrow her lump hasn't bled at all today, any tips on how to get a pee sample from a cat?


I don't think chubby or non-chubby makes much difference, but I could be wrong .. it's the actual weight drugs are prescribed too. My 4.5 kilo girl is a typical stocky built BSH, but she would still get the same amount of meds as a lanky 4.5 kilo teenage cat that still has to fill out to an adult weight of 6 kilos.



GoldenShadow said:


> Will ring about a blood test tomorrow her lump hasn't bled at all today, any tips on how to get a pee sample from a cat?


The vet will get the pee sample from your cat. 

All the very best !!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tje said:


> I know Doolally above advised that before contacting the RCVS that you give the vet the chance to rectify this situation, but seeing as they are still playing the "this is no big deal, the cat is still alive" card, that for me is reason enough to think "ok, I tried to let them rectify their own mistake, however they're not taking this seriously, time to go to the RCVS". You've given them their chance, they didn't take it.
> 
> again, this is simply not true... go back to page one of this thread... look at my contributions... I was pretty sure for a good hour and half that you had OD-ed your cat... but I couldn't come right out and say it because I was getting more and more confused myself, and the thought that a vet would give a 10ml syringe to dose metacam with... well that is soooo ridiculous that it would simply never have come into my head. Believe me, if I thought you'd been "sleeping on the job", I would say it. I rile half of this forum on a regular basis because I am so outspoken. But you did nothing wrong!!
> 
> ...


Thanks 

Going to write to the RCVS once cat has had blood test and pee test done as then I'll know if it looks like the metacam itself has done any damage or not. She had a blood test not too long ago at that vets you see because she has had issues with her kidneys, she was ill really bad a few years ago and they couldn't find out what was wrong so she does have blood tests once in while. I guess if the results are much different to those it will highlight any problems.

Tigs is off tomorrow morning for them to try and do pee and blood tests and they said the blood test might take til her appt on Friday to be back so they will keep the results and unless they see anything really bad just let us know when we take her Friday. The vets I use own the hospital locally that all the vets (who I spoke to anyway when looking for a vet) send their emergency cases to especially for out of hours, and they have a supposedly really big lab there so they are going to send the blood to them as apparently they can check for more things than at the surgery I go to  I don't know what the lady said tbh I was a bit distracted with the dogs but hopefully by Friday we will know for definite what shape she is in


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I am very relieved to hear that you'll be pursuing this GlodenLeaf. 

If I were you  I would be taking Doolally up on her offer of help to draft a letter. These "vetty people" know so much better than us (non vetty people, hehe) how to forumulate these type of complaints and what's relevant and what's not. 

Please keep us posted on how it goes with your cat on Friday, and how the complaint pans out. 

All the best to you both !!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tje said:


> I am very relieved to hear that you'll be pursuing this GlodenLeaf.
> 
> If I were you  I would be taking Doolally up on her offer of help to draft a letter. These "vetty people" know so much better than us (non vetty people, hehe) how to forumulate these type of complaints and what's relevant and what's not.
> 
> ...


Ooh I didn't know Doolally was a vetty person 

I know my vets aren't impressed either and have said that if I write a letter of complaint they will happily let me put down that they are willing to discuss with the RCVS what I came to them with and what the other vets said to them when they called them up on Monday morning.

ETA: I forgot to say my Mum will be contacting the vets who gave us the metacam this week as she wants to see what they say themselves as its only really my vets who have spoken to them in detail, I only really chatted to them when I asked about the syringe and the like on Monday and not so much about why it had happened and what they were going to do.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Ooh I didn't know Doolally was a vetty person
> 
> I know my vets aren't impressed either and have said that if I write a letter of complaint they will happily let me put down that they are willing to discuss with the RCVS what I came to them with and what the other vets said to them when they called them up on Monday morning.
> 
> ETA: I forgot to say my Mum will be contacting the vets who gave us the metacam this week as she wants to see what they say themselves as its only really my vets who have spoken to them in detail, I only really chatted to them when I asked about the syringe and the like on Monday and not so much about why it had happened and what they were going to do.


stay tuned and watch me make a plonker of myself , lol... I think Doolally is a vet nurse. I am (almost/kinda/definitely) sure she is. If I'm right... I would definitely be taking the kind help she offered. If I'm wrong, well LOL... I was a lot more worried about being wrong on Monday morning. Calling someone a vet nurse and being wrong is not half as bad as telling someone they have OD-ed their cat and being wrong about it .

hope all goes well Friday, and I would like to think that your mum gets a half-decent response when she goes to speak with the practice in question. All the best !! Keeping everthing crossed for you !!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tje said:


> stay tuned and watch me make a plonker of myself , lol... I think Doolally is a vet nurse. I am (almost/kinda/definitely) sure she is. If I'm right... I would definitely be taking the kind help she offered. If I'm wrong, well LOL... I was a lot more worried about being wrong on Monday morning. Calling someone a vet nurse and being wrong is not half as bad as telling someone they have OD-ed their cat and being wrong about it .
> 
> hope all goes well Friday, and I would like to think that your mum gets a half-decent response when she goes to speak with the practice in question. All the best !! Keeping everthing crossed for you !!


Thanks :thumbup:

My only concern is my Mum is a bit of a push over and I'm hoping in the couple days they've had the vets aren't going to try and fob her off. Mum is gutted we were giving the cat way to much medicine but in the same breath if the vets tell her they are very sorry and going to do this that and the other to stop it happening again I think she might be inclined to let it slide as Tiger is seemingly OK...

Time will tell I guess..! If anything hopefully they are going to be a lot more careful in the future.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Thanks :thumbup:
> 
> My only concern is my Mum is a bit of a push over and I'm hoping in the couple days they've had the vets aren't going to try and fob her off. Mum is gutted we were giving the cat way to much medicine but in the same breath if the vets tell her they are very sorry and going to do this that and the other to stop it happening again I think she might be inclined to let it slide as Tiger is seemingly OK...
> 
> Time will tell I guess..! If anything hopefully they are going to be a lot more careful in the future.


IMO I don't really think it matters if they view your mum as a pushover or not. If your mum walks away with anything less than a feeling of utter delight... then you lodge a formal complaint with the RCVS and they take it from there. I had a similar dispute with a dentist.... he tried to treat me like an idiot when I went to complain and would hardly let me get in a word in edgewise, so I just left. Made a formal complaint to the governing body of dentists... and suddenly he REALLLLLLY wanted to talk and we reached an agreement acceptable to both of us with the help of an intermediary from the dentist's governing body.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

hows she doing? have you managed to get her to take it yet?

any news on the 4.5 ??? should it be that?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> hows she doing? have you managed to get her to take it yet?
> 
> any news on the 4.5 ??? should it be that?


She's not on the Metacam now just the antibiotics as her lump keeps bleeding out a bit here and there.

It should have been 4.5kg on the markings on the Metacam syringe but I was given a 10ml syringe  The label on the box said 4.5ml, should have said 4.5kg and the receptionist who was 17 gave me the syringe because there wasn't one in the box we had, didn't have an instruction leaflet either. Seems vets usually check things like that are right and if anything the girl should have only passed it to us not had to do anything like get a syringe as it should have been in there already.

So basically we were ODing her by 10 x the amount, luckily she hates meds and wasn't swallowing it all. Got her in for blood/pee test tomorrow and she is in Friday (this is at the vets I have the dogs at) for them to determine what they think/would treat her with so should get the results then.

She is fine in herself, jumping onto a chair upside down on another chair and going and lying on the table like she does  She's not feeling too bad by the looks of it 

In case anyone is wondering why I have the dogs at one vet cats at another, we moved here in August and I only really registered Rupert at the vet when I needed to take him as I hadn't decided where to take him yet. We went to a vets recommended by my Uncle who had a labrador.

Over time we registered the cats/rabbit at that vets too. A few weeks ago one of the dogs was struggling to open his eye and with it being rush hour there was no way I was going to get across town to the vets. I went to the one just round the corner as they said the nurse would take a look even though we weren't registered. I registered with them that day as they seemed lovely and is much easier to get to in terms of emergency. We had got the other dog just a week or so before then and changed him to being at the same vets as my dog as they were good with Roo/charges were reasonable. We hadn't switched the cats at this point and the vets seemed decent enough at the other place hence they were still registered across town we hadn't got around to changing them all over


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

seems like a mix up there end 

glad she is feeling better, i find diff vets good for diff things, have 2 that i use, well 1 99% of the time and the other if i cant get to it!!

hope her tests go well


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow, how did everything go today with your cat?

And how did your mum get on talking to the vet?


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## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

Any news on the bloods? 

And yes Tje wasn't dreaming lol, I'm a Registered Veterinary Nurse, so my offer still stands if you'd like any help wording a letter, just give me a shout.

Hope the vet visit went ok today


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Doolally said:


> And yes Tje wasn't dreaming lol, I'm a Registered Veterinary Nurse,


thank god for that!! I would have looked a right plonker had you turned out to be a hairy ar$ed bricklayer called Dave !! 

seriously though, that's a very nice offer to help GS with this.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks not got blood results yet. They did some tests but her blood clotted before they did haematology or something so they took another sample this morning. From the tests they did her liver is fine and one kidney is slightly worse than the other but it always has been so it's not a recent thing.

Mum has the guy who ones the practice ringing her back tomorrow morning as he wasn't in today. Apparently the vet who prescribed the metacam he has told not to come into work til the new year to discuss her position  that's what the receptionist said.

Sorry it's a bit brief on phone as broadband playing up a bit.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Wow GS, I cant wait to hear todays installments then!! It now sounds like the practice manager is taking this seriously. As they bloody well should!! Please keep us posted on how it goes this morning when your mum speaks to the practice owner/manager. The initial tests with your cat sound pretty promising though (well you know what I mean, she already had kidney issues so thats not news).


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum doesn't want to put a complaint in to the RCVS as the vet who prescribed the Metacam and had the alls well that ends well attitude isn't returning to work until the new year and the guy who owns the practice said that they will review her position at that point but right now he has no intention of letting her come back from what he has heard (she has refused to speak to him about what happened so far since being told not to go into work). He said he is very sorry it happened, the girl on reception shouldn't have been handing out the drugs and it looks as though the vet got her to do it so she could try and run on time. The guy who owns the practice has taken more of a back seat this year due to family reasons and he sounded very upset saying it all seems to have gone to pot. They've agreed to pay for her tests as well, the blood test is £85 but that's the only figure I have off the top of my head.

Still waiting for blood results but we've had a lot of snow here and potentially there may be no one in the lab to get them, I'm not sure but they assured us if they found anything dreadful they would get back to us asap.

My vets don't feel Tiger actually needs Metacam they said she seems fine in herself and the lump isn't actually bothering her when touched etc so they feel she is fine as she is especially as she is running about jumping on the table etc all the time


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## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Mum doesn't want to put a complaint in to the RCVS as the vet who prescribed the Metacam and had the alls well that ends well attitude isn't returning to work until the new year and the guy who owns the practice said that they will review her position at that point but right now he has no intention of letting her come back from what he has heard (she has refused to speak to him about what happened so far since being told not to go into work). He said he is very sorry it happened, the girl on reception shouldn't have been handing out the drugs and it looks as though the vet got her to do it so she could try and run on time. The guy who owns the practice has taken more of a back seat this year due to family reasons and he sounded very upset saying it all seems to have gone to pot. They've agreed to pay for her tests as well, the blood test is £85 but that's the only figure I have off the top of my head.
> 
> Still waiting for blood results but we've had a lot of snow here and potentially there may be no one in the lab to get them, I'm not sure but they assured us if they found anything dreadful they would get back to us asap.
> 
> My vets don't feel Tiger actually needs Metacam they said she seems fine in herself and the lump isn't actually bothering her when touched etc so they feel she is fine as she is especially as she is running about jumping on the table etc all the time


All sounds very good news indeed!! Well done to the practice owner for taking this seriously. Like I said before, I don't see the need to escalate this to the RCVS IF the practice admit their mistake and take steps to make sure it won't happen again, which it sounds like they are doing.

Keep us updated with Tiger's progress. I'm glad the lump's not bothering her:thumbup:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Doolally said:


> All sounds very good news indeed!! Well done to the practice owner for taking this seriously. Like I said before, I don't see the need to escalate this to the RCVS IF the practice admit their mistake and take steps to make sure it won't happen again, which it sounds like they are doing.
> 
> Keep us updated with Tiger's progress. I'm glad the lump's not bothering her:thumbup:


Thanks 

They are pretty sure its cancer but its not bugging her and we saw on a documentary a few years ago that apparently Manx cats don't live as long as cats with tails on average so 16 years old (17 in April) isn't too bad, she seems happy in herself :thumbup:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Had the rest of Tiger's blood results and she is fine. Need to decide whether to have her liver scanned and what to do about the lump. Think re the lump we will probably just leave it as she seems happy enough, not causing her any bother and we worry about how she'd take to recovery should she make it through the op.


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