# I thought being a veggie would make me a saint on a pet forum............



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

.............. I was wrong! Clearly, it is the exact opposite! Me bad!


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

I wouldnt worry about it..Being a resonsible pet owner, breeder ..ect, ect doesnt make you a saint either quite the opposit..


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> .............. I was wrong! Clearly, it is the exact opposite! Me bad!


well i certainly dont think youre bad for being a veggie


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Nothing on here makes anyone a saint 

If we've got opinions then we should expect to hear from people with the opposite opinions  

I totally admire your ethics - I just don't totally agree with them


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> I wouldnt worry about it..Being a resonsible pet owner, breeder ..ect, ect doesnt make you a saint either quite the opposit..


I have noticed that also. Re the facebook status thread about breeding, we both posted on. I am disillusioned


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## lil muppet (Apr 4, 2008)

Fleur said:


> Nothing on here makes anyone a saint
> 
> If we've got opinions then we should expect to hear from people with the opposite opinions
> 
> I totally admire your ethics - I just don't totally agree with them


i agree totally!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Fleur said:


> Nothing on here makes anyone a saint  If we've got opinions then we should expect to hear from people with the opposite opinions   I totally admire your ethics - I just don't totally agree with them


I agree with this.

We all live our lives differently and shouldnt be so judgemental of others.

While being a veggie does make you a good person, its doesnt mean those that do eat meat are bad.

We dont all have to agree


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

nothing wrong with being a veggie, i was for 10 years but due to getting really ill i had to start eating meat again. don`t think it`d make you a saint on here...i don`t think there`s many things that would tbh you`ll always get some that will find something to pick at and vice versa. the main thing is people need to respect your decision to be a veggie as do people who are veggies need to respect theirs for eating meat....then we can all get along


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm a veggie but i'm no saint :devil:


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> I have noticed that also. Re the facebook status thread about breeding, we both posted on. I am disillusioned


I know. I am totally up for others opinions, but when its supporting something that has the potential to let an animal suffer I cant accept it!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Nothing wrong with being a Veggie!!! My daughters vegetarian.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

i personally dont think anyone is saying you are bad for being a veggie but obviously a lot of people eat meat and still love their pets


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> .............. I was wrong! Clearly, it is the exact opposite! Me bad!


no! I don't think you are BAD! but you have to remember that you have a diverse mixture of pet owners here! Some are from a farming comuinity, some work their dogs, and some just shoot for sport! Then we have the reptile keepers - many of these feed live , and the bird of prey keepers - the birds will die if they do not feed -there is no substiture to feed em!!

I have read your posts,and DO Admire your commitment to being vegetarian! BUT it is not for everyone! and NOT all meat eaters are cruel! The best we can can hope for at the moment is that folk scoure their meat ethically and that we try and stop the cruelty that we read day after day after day!.
FOLK NEED TO LEARN TO RESPECT ANIMALS

Really wish I could offer you more support! but sadly - I can't - otherwise I would be a hypercrite!


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Wasn't Hitler a veggie


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> no! I don't think you are BAD! but you have to remember that you have a diverse mixture of pet owners here! Some are from a farming comuinity, some work their dogs, and some just shoot for sport! Then we have the reptile keepers - many of these feed live , and the bird of prey keepers - the birds will die if they do not feed -there is no substiture to feed em!!
> 
> I have read your posts,and DO Admire your commitment to being vegetarian! BUT it is not for everyone! and NOT all meat eaters are cruel! The best we can can hope for at the moment is that folk scoure their meat ethically and that we try and stop the cruelty that we read day after day after day!.
> FOLK NEED TO LEARN TO RESPECT ANIMALS
> ...


this is the longer version of what i was trying to say


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Leah84 said:


> nothing wrong with being a veggie, i was for 10 years but due to getting really ill i had to start eating meat again. don`t think it`d make you a saint on here...i don`t think there`s many things that would tbh you`ll always get some that will find something to pick at and vice versa. the main thing is people need to respect your decision to be a veggie as do people who are veggies need to respect theirs for eating meat....then we can all get along


But one lifestyle choice causes suffereing of animals in the meat trade or hunting, and the other lifestyle doesn't. That cannot be argued!  Its a no brainer, surely?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> this is the longer version of what i was trying to say


Thats because DT waffles for england!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

archiebaby said:


> this is the longer version of what i was trying to say


For once DT made sense


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## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

Lol! How can you be bad for being a veggie?  Just means you don't want to eat animals and that's a very good thing in my book hmy: (don't make you a saint tho lol!) :hand:


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

Each 2 their own I say, I would never diss someones opinion if it differed from mine, likewise I don't expect my beliefs or ethics 2 b dissed being a meat eater, we r a diverse group with lots of different views which makes healthy debate, I don't believe in animal cruelty, I believe in humane ways of killing 4 food, maybe because I grew up with family members hunting etc I accept it more readily, i'm a realist at the end of the day and needs must, as long as it's done ethically


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## lil muppet (Apr 4, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> But one lifestyle choice causes suffereing of animals in the meat trade or hunting, and the other lifestyle doesn't. That cannot be argued!  Its a no brainer, surely?


so are you indirectly having a go at people who eat meat on here? coz this is not a vegitarian forum as previously stated. its just a pet forum! like someone already said we come from a diverse background and will continue on our merry way no matter what is said on here! sorry. btw i was veggie from the age of 7 till i was 19!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> But one lifestyle choice causes suffereing of animals in the meat trade or hunting, and the other lifestyle doesn't. That cannot be argued!  Its a no brainer, surely?


i dont think anyone is trying to argue about which lifestyle is right or wrong but unfortunatly in life you are always going to have difference of opinions i smoke, but i dont drink , so is my lifestyle better than the one who drinks? we just have to accept that everyone is different


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Thats because DT waffles for england!


And scotland, ireland and wales, most of europe and the deep south!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> But one lifestyle choice causes suffereing of animals in the meat trade or hunting, and the other lifestyle doesn't. That cannot be argued!  Its a no brainer, surely?


But many would argue with out controlling the rabbit population the rabbits would keep breeding - this leads to over population which leads to disease and suffering for the rabbits - and the decimation of our crops.
What's the alternative to controlling the rabbit population:
Traps/snares or posioning? - I could never agree with the use of these 
Surely hunting by well trained huntspersons who respect the enviroment is better?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Well, I'm veggie but I'd much rather be a sinner than a saint, not much fun to be had being saintly


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

lil_muppet said:


> so are you indirectly having a go at people who eat meat on here? coz this is not a vegitarian forum as previously stated. its just a pet forum! like someone already said we come from a diverse background and will continue on our merry way no matter what is said on here! sorry. btw i was veggie from the age of 7 till i was 19!


Where are they having a go?
Certainly seen nothing ofthe sort on this thread!


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

But in your world FF if eating animals is wrong for humans and breeding them for food, then so is keeping them as pets and forcing them to conform to our standards, so you shouldn't have your cats or if you did then you shouldn't be feeding them but letting them feed/kill their own food.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Pointermum said:


> I'm a veggie but i'm no saint :devil:


Well I'm a saint - but alas, a failed veggie


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well I'm a saint - but alas, a failed veggie


I'm a veggie but failed saint
:aureola:


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## lil muppet (Apr 4, 2008)

GreyHare said:


> But in your world FF if eating animals is wrong for humans and breeding them for food, then so is keeping them as pets and forcing them to conform to our standards, so you shouldn't have your cats or if you did then you shouldn't be feeding them but letting them feed/kill their own food.


never thought of it like this!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Im most definatly not a saint...... too much like hard work


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Where are they having a go?
> Certainly seen nothing ofthe sort on this thread!


This thread is a spin off from another one first kill what bordie has put on, come DT get with it.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> Im most definatly not a saint...... too much like hard work


It gets easier with time!
Look a me! prime example


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

I too am a failed veggie it was the devilish aroma of bacon sarnies that lured me back


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

GreyHare said:


> But in your world FF if eating animals is wrong for humans and breeding them for food, then so is keeping them as pets and forcing them to conform to our standards, so you shouldn't have your cats or if you did then you shouldn't be feeding them but letting them feed/kill their own food.


and we all know how cats love to play with their food before they kill and eat it... it's not humane :wink:


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> This thread is a spin off from another one first kill what bordie has put on, come DT get with it.


Yep! I saw that and left well alone - been there done,, that got the T shirt the hat & the scares.

the OP imo did not start this thread to get at folk!
Defnately one that chucks her dummy out the pram and stomps off!

EDITED TO ADD!!!!it aint the OP that chucks her dummy outta the pram!
I was speaking of Lil muppet!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Where are they having a go?
> Certainly seen nothing ofthe sort on this thread!





haeveymolly said:


> This thread is a spin off from another one first kill what bordie has put on, come DT get with it.


I am not having a go, I just didn't want to side track Borderer's thread with the veggie issue. So, started my own. Yes, a spin off as such. Is that wrong of me? lol


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## CanIgoHome (Oct 25, 2008)

who cares what you eat as long as your happy 

me I like bacon sandwiches to much :yesnod::yesnod:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Yep! I saw that and left well alone - been there done,, that got the T shirt the hat & the scares.
> 
> the OP imo did not start this thread to get at folk!
> Defnately one that chucks her dummy out the pram and stomps off!


I commented early in the other thread, but quickly realised is was going to be one of those roundabouts so got off quick.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> I am not having a go, I just didn't want to side track Borderer's thread with the veggie issue. So, started my own. Yes, a spin off as such. Is that wrong of me? lol


no its not wrong of you, its very saintly


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

lil_muppet said:


> so are you indirectly having a go at people who eat meat on here? coz this is not a vegitarian forum as previously stated. its just a pet forum!


LOL wtf 



Flavourflav said:


> I am not having a go, I just didn't want to side track Borderer's thread with the veggie issue. So, started my own. Yes, a spin off as such. Is that wrong of me? lol


nope it shows you have respect, and I admire your passion as well


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> no its not wrong of you, its very saintly


This made me chuckle, thank you!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> I am not having a go, I just didn't want to side track Borderer's thread with the veggie issue. So, started my own. Yes, a spin off as such. Is that wrong of me? lol


WHOOOH where did i say you was having a go? why should i think it could be wrong of you, i personally couldnt care less whether you are veggie or whatever else.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Pointermum said:


> and we all know how cats love to play with their food before they kill and eat it... it's not humane :wink:


Thats coz they arent human!! its actually feline!!

Why would people care if you were veggie or not on a pet forum?? I mean nobody is advocating eating their pets!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> I am not having a go, I just didn't want to side track Borderer's thread with the veggie issue. So, started my own. Yes, a spin off as such. Is that wrong of me? lol


Nothing wrong with that - infact as you say rather than take that thread too far off track start a new one 

Would you mind if I asked you some questions? I don't want you to think I'm trying to undermine your beliefs (is beliefs the right word ).
However I'm genuinely interested - and I don't mind you challenging me back on my beliefs


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Ahem FlavourFlav I shall ask again your opinion on 


GreyHare said:


> But in your world FF if eating animals is wrong for humans and breeding them for food, then so is keeping them as pets and forcing them to conform to our standards, so you shouldn't have your cats or if you did then you shouldn't be feeding them but letting them feed/kill their own food.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

CanIgoHome said:


> who cares what you eat as long as your happy
> 
> me I like bacon sandwiches to much :yesnod::yesnod:


and a big juicy steak, i could never be a veggie in a million years.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> Thats coz they arent human!! its actually feline!! Why would people care if you were veggie or not on a pet forum?? I mean nobody is advocating eating their pets!


YYYYyyyyyyyuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm pets


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> I am not having a go, I just didn't want to side track Borderer's thread with the veggie issue. So, started my own. Yes, a spin off as such. Is that wrong of me? lol


Starting your thread for the discussion was wise keeps bordies on topic and yours. I think everyone has a right to there own opinion and i respect that for veggie people and meat people. I think being a vegatarian must take time and education to make sure you get the protein levels required. I couldn't do it but thats me and I accept that...


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

catz4m8z said:


> Thats coz they arent human!! its actually feline!!
> 
> Why would people care if you were veggie or not on a pet forum?? I mean nobody is advocating eating their pets!





ClaireLouise said:


> YYYYyyyyyyyuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm pets


PMSL   Claire behave yourself


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

GreyHare said:


> Ahem FlavourFlav I shall ask again your opinion on


Thats a whole different argument (but I understand the point you are making).

Thats how I justify my cats getting fish based protein, they would be out killing if I didn't feed them!


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

canuckjill said:


> Starting your thread for the discussion was wise keeps bordies on topic and yours. I think everyone has a right to there own opinion and i respect that for veggie people and meat people. I think being a vegatarian must take time and education to make sure you get the protein levels required. I couldn't do it but thats me and I accept that...


it's amazing how well you can do on chips, mayo, breaded mushrooms and red wine     :lol:


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> Thats coz they arent human!! its actually feline!!
> 
> Why would people care if you were veggie or not on a pet forum?? I mean nobody is advocating eating their pets!


:crying: :crying: we`re not?? :crying: i`ll have to stop searching for that massive lab sized roasting tin and put the steak knives away again :lol:

pointermum - don`t forget pizza, it`s a staple of any veggie diet


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Fleur said:


> PMSL   Claire behave yourself


Got a parrot here big enough for the pot LOL (joke im not about to eat my parrot please dont panic people)


Flavourflav said:


> Thats a whole different argument (but I understand the point you are making).
> 
> Thats how I justify my cats getting fish based protein, they would be out killing if I didn't feed them!


Even if you feed em they will still kill stuff. 
Cats kill for fun.

My mums last cat was a evil little bugger and when he was done playing with the poor victim and finally killed it he would hang it from mothers fence  in the summer there would sometimes be a line of corpses and we would have to do a mass burial


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Thats a whole different argument (but I understand the point you are making).
> 
> Thats how I justify my cats getting fish based protein, they would be out killing if I didn't feed them!


Sorry my mind is boggled at that, you would rather feed an un-natural dry food made from fish (that is suffocated, so not a quick death in an abattoir like meat that would be in other pet food) than let them hunt for themselves, I shall step away now :smilewinkgrin:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pointermum said:


> it's amazing how well you can do on *chips, mayo, breaded mushrooms and red wine*     :lol:


ooooh:001_tt1:
except the mayo- yak!


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Leah84 said:


> :crying: :crying: we`re not?? :crying: i`ll have to stop searching for that massive lab sized roasting tin and put the steak knives away again :lol:
> 
> pointermum - *don`t forget pizza*, it`s a staple of any veggie diet


It was my dinner tonight  currently drinking a bottle of red and just got a flake out


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> Got a parrot here big enough for the pot LOL (joke im not about to eat my parrot please dont panic people)
> 
> Even if you feed em they will still kill stuff.
> Cats kill for fun.
> ...


Not if they are house cats (off to polish my halo again) :wink:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> ooooh:001_tt1:
> except the mayo- yak!


What No MAYO,   shocking truely shocking


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> Not if they are house cats (off to polish my halo again) :wink:


ah there we go ethics again..... Keeping a cat indoor when they were made to hunt and wander  lol just winding u up, your cats your choice and all the rest of it


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

GreyHare said:


> Sorry my mind is boggled at that, you would rather feed an un-natural dry food made from fish (that is suffocated, so not a quick death in an abattoir like meat that would be in other pet food) than let them hunt for themselves, I shall step away now :smilewinkgrin:


You are twisting things, I think it is best you do step away! See what I said on the other thread, you will get your answers there. Not for one second am I saying fish farming is cruelty free.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> What No MAYO,   shocking truely shocking


noooooo it smells funnyhmy:


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Where my dogs and cat were concerned there is no way on this earth that I would EVER consider NOT feeding them meat or fish NO WAY ! And neither would I expect them to go hunt their own food either!

With regard to vegetarians! AND specifically to the OP's original thread!look back - to when you were a little girl and perhaps refused meat because you saw eating it as cruel!

If people choose to be veggie they get my FULL admiration - AND there is a lot of truth is what some say - that if no one ate meat there would be a lot less cruelty!


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

I love how when someone decides to actually do there bit in giving a toss about animals, stupid comparisons are always bought in about the pets they have, why ? to make them feel like they shouldnt bother ? they are doing more then most so called animal lovers and so what if they cant do it all, that isnt possible anyway  normally its a diversion cos they have **** all intelligence to add to the actual topic at hand. :wink:


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

i dont have a cat but i know they are born to be hunters they love it and they are very clever animals


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> You are twisting things, I think it is best you do step away! See what I said on the other thread, you will get your answers there. Not for one second am I saying fish farming is cruelty free.


I didn't think you answered your views on that on the other thread either, I shall go look, and I don't think I have twisted anything you've said


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

Pointermum said:


> It was my dinner tonight  currently drinking a bottle of red and just got a flake out


i could well go a mushroom pizza!!! i live round from dominos and stupidly got my daughter a personal pizza for lunch today an cause i wasn`t hungry never got anything...then she pulled out the garlic sauce and i was starving all of a sudden


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> noooooo it smells funnyhmy:


Its seems like heaven, I love it......I could live off it



Waterlily said:


> I love how when someone decides to actually do there bit in giving a toss about animals, stupid comparisons are always bought in about the pets they have, why ? to make them feel like they shouldnt bother ? they are doing more then most so called animal lovers and so what if they cant do it all, that isnt possible anyway  normally its a diversion cos they have **** all intelligence to add to the actual topic at hand. :wink:


They arent stupid comparisons, they are valid points. people bring these things up quite often in defense because veggies can sometimes be very critical of meat eaters. The point is we all make choice, have opinions and do different things but we are right in our own choices but wrong to think others are wrong for doing different..... the point is no one is perfect we all try to be good in different ways.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> ah there we go ethics again..... Keeping a cat indoor when they were made to hunt and wander  lol just winding u up, your cats your choice and all the rest of it


the member mentioned that they were indoors, because of a comment about her cats hunting if she is veggie, duh.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> the member mentioned that they were indoors, because of a comment about her cats hunting if she is veggie, duh.


read the end of my post, dur!


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## Cassia (May 28, 2011)

Nothing wrong with being a veggie or a vegan


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

FF i think its brilliant that youre so passionate about animals, cats need meat we can do without(well some of us lol), so i dont think you could be much more ethical than that


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> read the end of my post, dur!


yeah I did, baiting a member then adding an I was kidding at the end.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> I love how when someone decides to actually do there bit in giving a toss about animals, stupid comparisons are always bought in about the pets they have, why ? to make them feel like they shouldnt bother ? they are doing more then most so called animal lovers and so what if they cant do it all, that isnt possible anyway  normally its a diversion cos they have **** all intelligence to add to the actual topic at hand. :wink:


Thats exactly how I see their tactics. Thank you! :001_tt1:


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> FF i think its brilliant that youre so passionate about animals, cats need meat we can do without(well some of us lol), so i dont think you could be much more ethical than that


my lovely noushka:001_tt1:rrr::001_wub::drool:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> yeah I did, baiting a member then adding an I was kidding at the end.


Dont be silly, I wasnt baiting anyone..... read all my comments on this thread, ive joked with FF all the way through. Just because I dont agree on something doesnt mean im going to carry anything on to another thread.... im not that immature.. I can have a difference of opinion and leave it at that ive not carried it on at all. isnt that the whole point of the forum to chat and have opinions


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

borderer said:


> my lovely noushka:001_tt1:rrr::001_wub::drool:


haha you Donut:001_tt1::001_wub::001_tt2:


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> Thats exactly how I see their tactics. Thank you! :001_tt1:


I don't have any tactics  - I'm offended that someone would believe that I am fighting some sort of tactical war or bullying campaign 
I'm genuinely interested in peoples beliefs/ethics.
I respect someones choices - (in this case not to eat meat) - I also feel I deserve the same respect for my choices (in this case to eat ethically sourced meat)


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Fleur said:


> I don't have any tactics  - I'm offended that someone would believe that I am fighting some sort of tactical war or bullying campaign  I'm genuinely interested in peoples beliefs/ethics. I respect someones choices - (in this case not to eat meat) - I also feel I deserve the same respect for my choices (in this case to eat ethically sourced meat)


This is exactly my point too, well said


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

*cough*
erm, would anyone like some of my popcorn, its vegetarian






























*runs & hides*


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> FF i think its brilliant that youre so passionate about animals, cats need meat we can do without(well some of us lol), so i dont think you could be much more ethical than that


So it is Noush! So it is! and why folks are trying to twist it to make the OP feel hypocritical because they have pets is beyond me!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> AND there is a lot of truth is what some say - that if no one ate meat there would be a lot less cruelty!


Oh, I long for that world!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> So it is Noush! So it is! and why folks are trying to twist it to make the OP feel hypocritical because they have pets is beyond me!


WL put it beautifully "normally its a diversion cos they have **** all intelligence to add to the actual topic at hand".


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## SomeOddworld (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm a veggie...

is there something wrong with that?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

SomeOddworld said:


> I'm a veggie...
> 
> is there something wrong with that?


No of course there isn't!


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

SomeOddworld said:


> I'm a veggie...
> 
> is there something wrong with that?


Nowt wrong with you being a veggie love. There are Some Odder things in the World than that!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> So it is Noush! So it is! and why folks are trying to twist it to make the OP feel hypocritical because they have pets is beyond me!


The point was DT and I stand by what I said, Dont be tell me im cruel ect if you not perfect yourself.......Ive got all the time in the world for people points of view but im not going to be told im cruel and not highlight the fact no one is perfect we can all try to do as much as we can(in different ways) but your sh*t dont smell no sweeter than mine.

just for the record I think veggies are great, fantastic cause


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

SomeOddworld said:


> I'm a veggie...
> 
> is there something wrong with that?


Not at all


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

I take that was aimed at me :smilewinkgrin: it was just a point that I wanted to ask I wasn't trying to twist anything, it was just a genuine question about nature/nurture veggie/meat eater and that if it was so wrong to eat animals then surely it is to keep them as pets, but I have arse all intelligence so I must ask dumb questions


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> WL put it beautifully "normally its a diversion cos they have **** all intelligence to add to the actual topic at hand".


I dont see how because somepeople dont agree there is a need to insult people by saying they are not inteligent... Its an different opinion not a reflection of inteligence


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

i don`t get why we can`t all just agree to disagree, this is an argument that will never end and i respect everyone`s right to make their own choice. i wish i could be a veggie again but after how ill i became last time i just couldn`t risk it, especially not now i have kids to look after but i do respect people who can do it


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

SomeOddworld said:


> I'm a veggie...
> 
> is there something wrong with that?


Doubt your hear the animals complaining and who cares what people think.


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## SomeOddworld (Aug 1, 2011)

Wait is this thread an argument about meat-eating pet owners?... ohh... I see...

(I don't like the word owners, I'd appreciate a different word to use :L)


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> The point was DT and I stand by what I said, Dont be tell me im cruel ect if you not perfect yourself.......Ive got all the time in the world for people points of view but im not going to be told im cruel and not highlight the fact no one is perfect we can all try to do as much as we can(in different ways) but your sh*t dont smell no sweeter than mine.
> 
> just for the record I think veggies are great, fantastic cause


And you haven't tried to pick holes and make me feel personally bad? Because thats kinda how I feel you have been.

My comments are all general, not aimed at any one person. Unlike what I have had to deal with, members pulling a fine tooth comb through my life and my pets!


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

SomeOddworld said:


> Wait is this thread an argument about meat-eating pet owners?... ohh... I see...


:lol: welcome to PF we do have some odd debates .... but you catch on quickly


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Being veggie, fine by me, just don' t think it makes you a saint. It certainly doesn't give you some kind of moral high ground about animals suffering unless you are vegan....the most wasteful, senseless slaughter occurs in large scale dairy and egg production, even "free range" or organic. You don't get to lecture unless you know exactly where you getting it from. Like borderer does


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm confused now 
I know easily done 

What exactly is the topic?

Is it does being veggie make you a saint? 
Is it why people are veggie?
Is it the ethics of eating/not eating meat?
Or is it all 3?

As far as I can tell the thread is on topic - we are discussing vegetarianism.
A lot of sub-topics fall under that umbrella.

My daughter is veggie - she won't drink certain drinks (including beers and vodkas) because of enzymes used - she is extremely strict - however she is not Vegan and I struggle to understand her passion against animal cruelty yet she still eats dairy.
And I also admit I struggle to understand someone (my daughter included) that is passionate about fighting cruelty but still owns pets that eat meat.
I also struggle to understand those who buy 2 chickens for a fiver and then shout about someone shooting a rabbit.

I want to understand peoples points of views and motivations - I don't think I've posted anything to offend anyone or make them feel belittled for their choices and if I have I unreservedly apologise


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> The point was DT and I stand by what I said, Dont be tell me im cruel ect if you not perfect yourself.......Ive got all the time in the world for people points of view but im not going to be told im cruel and not highlight the fact no one is perfect we can all try to do as much as we can(in different ways) but your sh*t dont smell no sweeter than mine.
> 
> just for the record I think veggies are great, fantastic cause


Just seems Claire that whenever we have these veggie threads, that there are those that will twist the words of the said veggie and try and make them look hypocritical! but it don't stop at that either It is bloody hard work being a veggie and I admire anyone who does it.

And in the eyes of some ceasing to eat meat would be great step forward in ruling out animal cruelty! So cannot really knock em for saying it can we! You and I may hold out heads up and say we ain't crue - but its before the meat gets to us that the abuse takes place!


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Flavourflav said:


> . Unlike what I have had to deal with, members pulling a fine tooth comb through my life and my pets!


Thats how I have seen this thread tbh, and why I posted what I did. smells of a witch hunt.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

I dont think anyone objects to you being a veggie, it's only when you try to make out that being a veggie somehow makes you saintlike or better than meat eaters or when you try to push your vegetarian beliefs onto others that it becomes offensive.


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## SomeOddworld (Aug 1, 2011)

Fleur said:


> I want to understand peoples points of views and motivations


My motivation is ethics, I really would like to be vegan but I literally cannot live without dairy (I have an eating disorder, totally unrelated to the veggie part )

I do agree with all of the points you made, by the way


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Being veggie, fine by me, just don' t think it makes you a saint. It certainly doesn't give you some kind of moral high ground about animals suffering unless you are vegan....the most wasteful, senseless slaughter occurs in large scale dairy and egg production, even "free range" or organic. You don't get to lecture unless you know exactly where you getting it from. Like borderer does


If I wanna lecture! I shall! now can someone pass me my soap box please!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Being veggie, fine by me, just don' t think it makes you a saint. It certainly doesn't give you some kind of moral high ground about animals suffering unless you are vegan....the most wasteful, senseless slaughter occurs in large scale dairy and egg production, even "free range" or organic. You don't get to lecture unless you know exactly where you getting it from. Like borderer does


My lifestyle does cause less cruelty, there is no way of getting away from that fact!

I am ALMOST vegan, but call myself veggie. As I said earlier I am not 100% cruelty free, but damn close. I am also well aware of the slaughter of calves in dairy farming, amongst other cruelties to the cows. I don't drink milk, or eat eggs. I will not go further into this, as my thread title is veggie not vegan.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Just seems Claire that whenever we have these veggie threads, that there are those that will twist the words of the said veggie and try and make them look hypocritical! but it don't stop at that either It is bloody hard work being a veggie and I admire anyone who does it.
> 
> And in the eyes of some ceasing to eat meat would be great step forward in ruling out animal cruelty! So cannot really knock em for saying it can we! You and I may hold out heads up and say we ain't crue - but its before the meat gets to us that the abuse takes place!


if people want to eat rabbit food thats up to them i likeie the smell of roast beef and so do the vegys


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Hopefully FF doen't feel I've been participating in a 'witch hunt'
However I do think that if someone starts a thread on any subject that they should expect to be asked questions - theay are after all voicing those opinions and therefore by default inviting questions.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Waterlily said:


> Thats how I have seen this thread tbh, and why I posted what I did. smells of a witch hunt.


Why would there be a witch hunt for a new member? Am I missing something here.. I see valid points for both sides..


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

I don't eat meat because the animal was cute when i was about 6, i'm now 29 and still just don't feel the need to eat meat BUT i cook it for hubs and kids and the dogs get meat. I wish more people was like borderer and killed there own meat from free range animals that have never had the stress of being transported to slaughter house and such like.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

borderer said:


> if people want to eat rabbit food thats up to them i likeie the smell of roast beef and so do the vegys


thought you liked rabbit food? Infact your like for it has caused the two debates!:huh:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> And you haven't tried to pick holes and make me feel personally bad? Because thats kinda how I feel you have been. My comments are all general, not aimed at any one person. Unlike what I have had to deal with, members pulling a fine tooth comb through my life and my pets!


FF Ive have never picked at you, I dont know anything about you except you own cats. Ive asked you nowt about owt else Ive replied to your posts and thats it, I dont have to agree. I agree with your chosen life style just not the way in which you chose to put it across.



DoubleTrouble said:


> Just seems Claire that whenever we have these veggie threads, that there are those that will twist the words of the said veggie and try and make them look hypocritical! but it don't stop at that either It is bloody hard work being a veggie and I admire anyone who does it. And in the eyes of some ceasing to eat meat would be great step forward in ruling out animal cruelty! So cannot really knock em for saying it can we! You and I may hold out heads up and say we ain't crue - but its before the meat gets to us that the abuse takes place!


Ive not twisted anyones words, ive just asked questions when ive been more or less called cruel. It maybe hard work being a veggie and hat off to em.... my whole point it just cos im not im not a bad persn no one is squeeky clean and perfect we all fail at somepoint. or maybe its my lack of intelligence that fails me.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

SomeOddworld said:


> My motivation is ethics, I really would like to be vegan but I literally cannot live without dairy (I have an eating disorder, totally unrelated to the veggie part )
> 
> I do agree with all of the points you made, by the way


I sympathise with you, if I cut out dairy & eggs I'd be very limited on what I'd eat & would definitely be ill, my GP has grudgingly accepted my being veggie



Flavourflav said:


> My lifestyle does cause less cruelty, there is no way of getting away from that fact!
> 
> I am ALMOST vegan, but call myself veggie. As I said earlier I am not 100% cruelty free, but damn close. I am also well aware of the slaughter of calves in dairy farming, amongst other cruelties to the cows. I don't drink milk, or eat eggs. I will not go further into this, as my thread title is veggie not vegan.


Well, I'll admit I eat dairy & eggs so I'm definitely far from perfect, I can live with this though as I'm doing a little bit & that must count for something


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Why would there be a witch hunt for a new member? Am I missing something here.. I see valid points for both sides..


Witch hunt for veggies I think they mean, not me personally (I hope).

Being a veggie doesn't seem to go down well with the hard core crowd on here lol!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Fleur said:


> Hopefully FF doen't feel I've been participating in a 'witch hunt'
> However I do think that if someone starts a thread on any subject that they should expect to be asked questions - theay are after all voicing those opinions and therefore by default inviting questions.


I agree with you, but there is 11 pages now, I can not possibly answer everybodies posts. But ask away!


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Fleur said:


> Hopefully FF doen't feel I've been participating in a 'witch hunt'
> However I do think that if someone starts a thread on any subject that they should expect to be asked questions - theay are after all voicing those opinions and therefore by default inviting questions.


You may have not Fleur! but there are plenty that do!
Same old same old!

To put the record straight!
I eat meat! ALL the meat I buy is 100% ethically produced! and I perhaps have more game the most too!

I feed my dogs and cats meat - and always SHALL!

BUT! when we see reports of what goes on in our slaughterhouses it certainly makes me think! And what the veggies say is very true! if NO ONE ate meat then that cruelty at least would not exist!


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Why would there be a witch hunt for a new member? Am I missing something here.. I see valid points for both sides..


I do as well, but a spaz can notice the sarcastic undertones.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> Witch hunt for veggies I think they mean, not me personally (I hope).
> 
> Being a veggie doesn't seem to go down well with the hard core crowd on here lol!


May be we should start a 'I eat meat thread' and let all the veggies answer back  

I like many other meat eaters admire veggies and can understand that being veggie reduces the number of animals involved in the meat industry.
I personally would like to see more meat eaters be aware of the food chain and ethically source their meat - I think this will have more impact.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> Thats how I have seen this thread tbh, and why I posted what I did. smells of a witch hunt.





Flavourflav said:


> Witch hunt for veggies I think they mean, not me personally (I hope). Being a veggie doesn't seem to go down well with the hard core crowd on here lol!


OMG, somepeople *dont agree* with certain points, I am fed up of this bloody forum. I thought we could have opinions yet its called a witch hunt. I came on this thread and didnt even bring the previous comments up the OP, ha a laugh and was accused of baiting. I cant see why we cant disagree, opinions be took on board and left not bring it up again.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Why would there be a witch hunt for a new member? Am I missing something here.. I see valid points for both sides..


Ain't it more about it being a veggie thread! EVERYTIME a veggie starts a threadthe sh8t hits the fan!


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

I've been a vegetarian for 12 years because I don't think its right personally for me to eat animals when I adore them so much. I don't think meat-eaters are bad, however. Vegetarians get a lot of stick, but, just shrug it off and ignore it. Its hard, I know *hugs*.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> I do as well, but a spaz can notice the sarcastic undertones.


Yes its the sarcastic undertones that make me sad. Even via pm from some. But I am proud of what I try to acheive, so I rise above it.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Ain't it more about it being a veggie thread! EVERYTIME a veggie starts a threadthe sh8t hits the fan!


Erm wait a min there though DT.. cause every time a thread is started that has anything to do with hunting.. The sh1t hits the fan.. via the people against.. so no this is nothing different..


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> I do as well, but a spaz can notice the sarcastic undertones.


Too bloody right they can!

Call it what you like! if a veggie, antifox hunting ,anti shooting, anti whatever the majority are soon here to jusify their lust for whatever!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Too bloody right they can!
> 
> Call it what you like! if a veggie, antifox hunting ,anti shooting, anti whatever the majority are soon here to jusify their lust for whatever!


Yeah but its the same when a hunting thread is started as I just said.. all the anti's jump in..Ya can't all agree.. this place would be so boring if we did..


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

What am I missing here? No one has said vegetarians are bad...some of us have just said we don't think it makes you a saint or gives you the right to criticise others without being questioned...that's a witch hunt, seriously?


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

I soooo want to get on my soap box over this 

I am a meat eater and proud of it, my friend is a veggie and she's proud of it. I don't diss her and she doesn't preach to me, we get along fine.

I am proud to say that my hubby could take a sheep from baa to sizzle - I couldn't because I didn't know how. I use this to throw back at those who say, ' ... ah but you couldn't kill one could you', well err no, not these days with sanitised slaughter houses, but I do put the fezzies out of their suffering if still a runner.

If the veggies want to hold themselves out for sainthood then I will for the meat eaters - I only eat organic field or home raised meat. I am very picky about the source of my meat in terms of how it has been treated prior to slaughter. I like to think I only eat happy meat - where possible. I agree with the OP re the inhumane way that some animals are reared and cared for - my case in point is HOW can Tesco sell chickens for £2.50 each,what sort of life has that chicken had to be sold at that price. I will also only ever eat British Pork, we have the highest welfare standards in Europe, but it comes at a cost.

For me the real issues are how the source of meat is raised and slaughtered that counts, not that I eat meat. 

I am equally picky about the source of my veg too - this was after I had an apple in the fridge that lasted 4mths before I realised this can't be right. Irradiated veg for prolonged life and the airmiles expended on providing out of season produce is ridiculous and more harmful than anything to this planet as a whole.

It's a fact of modern times that farmers have to provide more produce from less available land and that only means a drive towards 'factory' type production across all areas of farming ie genetically modified food and factory reared conditions meat.

I think before we all start saying I'm better than you because I do this or that, then we should remember to accommodate and respect each others right to be 'right' whether you or others agree or not.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> I've been a vegetarian for 12 years because I don't think its right personally for me to eat animals when I adore them so much. I don't think meat-eaters are bad, however. Vegetarians get a lot of stick, but, just shrug it off and ignore it. Its hard, I know *hugs*.


((((((hugs)))))) straight back at you!


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## Cassia (May 28, 2011)

I don't have a problem with vegetarians etc but I do think the subject needs to just be dropped because there's been so much rowing going on lately about it all.
Everyone just needs to let everyone be because it's just going on and on lol! not just on this thread but on allot of threads I've seen lately haha!


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> I've been a vegetarian for 12 years because I don't think its right personally for me to eat animals when I adore them so much. I don't think meat-eaters are bad, however. Vegetarians get a lot of stick, but, just shrug it off and ignore it. Its hard, I know *hugs*.


That just about sums its up!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Too bloody right they can!
> 
> Call it what you like! if a veggie, antifox hunting ,anti shooting, anti whatever the majority are soon here to jusify their lust for whatever!


Exactly! Its a sad world we live in. People will try and justify anything, to allow themselves to sleep at night!


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Ain't it more about it being a veggie thread! EVERYTIME a veggie starts a threadthe sh8t hits the fan!


veggie people are allways bad tempered cos they would love a hot beef sarnie


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> Exactly! Its a sad world we live in. People will try and justify anything, to allow themselves to sleep at night!


I eat chicken and pork.. I sleep just fine...


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Erm wait a min there though DT.. cause *every time a thread is started that has anything to do with hunting.. The sh1t hits the fan*.. via the people against.. so no this is nothing different..


borderder must of been board tonight


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Cassia said:


> I don't have a problem with vegetarians etc but I do think the subject needs to just be dropped because there's been so much rowing going on lately about it all.
> Everyone just needs to let everyone be because it's just going on and on lol! not just on this thread but on allot of threads I've seen lately haha!


Hee hee blame Borderer for his First Kill thread then, for all tonights action! Me too, sorry!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Pointermum said:


> borderder must of been board tonight


Nope Bordie was telling us how he is educating his Grandson..


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Erm wait a min there though DT.. cause every time a thread is started that has anything to do with hunting.. The sh1t hits the fan.. via the people against.. so no this is nothing different..


Its totally different, one is for an animals life the other is against.



Cassia said:


> I don't have a problem with vegetarians etc but I do think the subject needs to just be dropped because there's been so much rowing going on lately about it all.
> Everyone just needs to let everyone be because it's just going on and on lol! not just on this thread but on allot of threads I've seen lately haha!


Well said, these threads only cause members to either leave or get banned.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Hee hee blame Borderer for his First Kill thread then, for all tonights action! Me too, sorry!


well at least we got some action


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

myshkin said:


> What am I missing here? No one has said vegetarians are bad...some of us have just said we don't think it makes you a saint or gives you the right to criticise others without being questioned...that's a witch hunt, seriously?


I 100% agree.

I seriously fed up with this forum. What I joke. I disagree and get them kind of comments. I wont Bother again. Just to add. its been insinuated ive berrn sarcastic via PM I will be forwarding my PMs to the mods so they can see for themselves I simply continued a convo after a thread was shut. I would post the Pms on her but its against the rules


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

borderer said:


> veggie people are allways bad tempered cos they would love a hot beef sarnie


heeeey
I'm not bad tempered:crying:
& thanks but no thanks to your hot sandwich of beefyness


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Erm wait a min there though DT.. cause every time a thread is started that has anything to do with hunting.. The sh1t hits the fan.. via the people against.. so no this is nothing different..


Opps! maybe that were a wrong example!



What I was trying to raise was the fact that there will ALWAYS as long as I havea hole in my bum be those that are on the opposite side!
Whether it be Foxhunting, Veggies, gun sports or whatever!
The MAJORITY always belittleing the MINORITY as in fox hunting!


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> ((((((hugs)))))) straight back at you!





DoubleTrouble said:


> That just about sums its up!


Hugs to you both!

I though I'd clarify some things -- It's not what's been said in this thread really, and I've just joined the discussion but here's a few things I've had to deal with over the years from a vegetarian point of view:

~ You have no idea how they're killed so who are you to judge? You don't know how they're brought up? Umm, I don't judge -- I just don't like people judging me for my diet, and I'm well aware what happens as I research throughly and look after animals bound for slaughter at college.
~ Oh no, she can't eat that Dear, she's _*vegetarian*_. *dirty look*
~ Omg you're vegetarian *rubs meat in face* Mmm yummy!
~ You're not properly vegetarian because there are animal byproducts in everything -- that's true, for a lot of things -- but that doesn't mean we're not vegetarian.

etc etc.

Meat-eaters, we think no less of you. But sometimes, you think less of us. This coming from a girl who's whole family are meat-eaters. Do I look down on my family? No, I would never.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

borderer said:


> veggie people are allways bad tempered cos they would love a hot beef sarnie


eerrm whats your excuse then??


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> Its totally different, one is for an animals life the other is against.


And thats my point in a nutshell! God you are good WL!  Wish I had your talent for posting!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

borderer said:


> well at least we got some action


Well I've enjoyed the discussion - I feel I've learned a lot about what motivates some of the vegitarians on the forum and some of the meat eaters to of made the choices they have.
I haven't changed my personal opinion but I can understand others opinions a little better.
Surely that's part of being on a forum


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

borderer said:


> veggie people are allways bad tempered cos they would love a hot beef sarnie


there i was thinking you liked me  :lol:


momentofmadness said:


> Nope Bordie was telling us how he is educating his Grandson..


Yes i know and i have no problem with what bordie does if you read my previous posts  but he knows it will always lead to a debate  heres what i wrote



> I wish more people was like borderer and killed there own meat from free range animals that have never had the stress of being transported to slaughter house and such like


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Pointermum said:


> there i was thinking you liked me  :lol:
> 
> Yes i know and i have no problem with what bordie does if you read my previous posts  but he knows it will always lead to a debate  heres what i wrote


LOL I know I did read it.. i wasn't having ago at you.. 
Blimey whats going on..


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Pointermum said:


> but he knows it will always lead to a debate  heres what i wrote


Of course he did! I agree!


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> LOL I know I did read it.. i wasn't having ago at you..
> Blimey whats going on..


We are testing you MOM just making sure you are alert


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> We are testing you MOM just making sure you are alert


I am alert very.. especially after my trip!!!!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> Hugs to you both!
> 
> I though I'd clarify some things -- It's not what's been said in this thread really, and I've just joined the discussion but here's a few things I've had to deal with over the years from a vegetarian point of view:
> 
> ...


When I was veggie as a teenager my stepmother literally did this & threatened to force feed it to me at dinner because I wouldn't eat the roast chicken her fascist a***hole father cooked & she was concerned it would offend him:frown2:


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> When I was veggie as a teenager my stepmother literally did this & threatened to force feed it to me at dinner because I wouldn't eat the roast chicken her fascist a***hole father cooked & she was concerned it would offend him:frown2:


Yeah my stepmum made me eat meat once and said it was vegetarian Quorn and I threw up everywhere because it was too rich for me after not eating meat for so long  Traumatic, isn't it


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

To conclude!
If EVERYONE had to go out and hunt their meal and then prepare it for the table there would be a lot less meat eaters - take it from me!
And I have LOST count the number of times I have walked in and been hit on the head by a brace or two! AND NO!!! I cannot eat them - it sort of brings it home - dispite knowing that those animals suffered NOWHERRE near the terrors of those that are slaughtered in our slaughterhouses!


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> I am alert very.. especially after my trip!!!!


You aint fell over again have ya!


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Sadly my high horse rant was beaten by about 8 pages posted in between, that addressed this issue


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

borderer said:


> well at least we got some action


Yes, we did! 



ClaireLouise said:


> I 100% agree.
> 
> I seriously fed up with this forum. What I joke. I disagree and get them kind of comments. I wont Bother again. Just to add. its been insinuated ive berrn sarcastic via PM I will be forwarding my PMs to the mods so they can see for themselves I simply continued a convo after a thread was shut. I would post the Pms on her but its against the rules


Overkill, much! 



xXhayleyroxX said:


> Hugs to you both!
> 
> I though I'd clarify some things -- It's not what's been said in this thread really, and I've just joined the discussion but here's a few things I've had to deal with over the years from a vegetarian point of view:
> 
> ...


I know we are always mocked, when we are veggie/vegan for the greater good of animals.

Its the "do you have pets" argument that I am fed up with answering!


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Well, for all of the arguments over this, this thread has not had a single report sent to moderators - that must be a first for this sort of thing  - Don't prove me wrong and start reporting everything now :smilewinkgrin:


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> Yeah my stepmum made me eat meat once and said it was vegetarian Quorn and I threw up everywhere because it was too rich for me after not eating meat for so long  Traumatic, isn't it


What horrible experiences you have had 
I am so careful to make sure that 'meat' does not contaminate any veggie food I prepare - I can't believe anyone would torture someone over their decision to be a veggie.

If anything in my house it goes the other way - my daughter is always threatening her dad and brother with making them eat quorn


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> To conclude!
> If EVERYONE had to go out and hunt their meal and then prepare it for the table there would be a lot less meat eaters - take it from me!


well yeah obviously, because theres not many wild animals to hunt in the heart of a city. Certainly not enough to provide for a city full of hunters.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> Yeah my stepmum made me eat meat once and said it was vegetarian Quorn and I threw up everywhere because it was too rich for me after not eating meat for so long  Traumatic, isn't it


Thats awful


----------



## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> I know we are always mocked, when we are veggie/vegan for the greater good of animals.
> 
> Its the "do you have pets" argument that I am fed up with answering!


Yeah 



Fleur said:


> What horrible experiences you have had
> I am so careful to make sure that 'meat' does not contaminate any veggie food I prepare - I can't believe anyone would torture someone over their decision to be a veggie.
> 
> If anything in my house it goes the other way - my daughter is always threatening her dad and brother with making them eat quorn


Yeah I've had some bad ones :/ And aww, how cute xD

@simpylsardonic ~ yeah :/ Yours sounds awful too xx


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> You aint fell over again have ya!


Bloody kids just tried to murder me again.. 



lymorelynn said:


> Well, for all of the arguments over this, this thread has not had a single report sent to moderators - that must be a first for this sort of thing  - Don't prove me wrong and start reporting everything now :smilewinkgrin:


LOLOLOL Im on it Lynn..


----------



## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

porps said:


> well yeah obviously, because theres not many wild animals to hunt in the heart of a city. Certainly not enough to provide for a city full of hunters.


your never far away from rat in the UK Trust me I know
And pigeons! dont you have em in the City?


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

I can't be a veggie - I'm allergic to Quorn - makes me throw up.

A little but common side effect apparently that isn't widely published


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Flavourflav said:


> Its the "do you have pets" argument that I am fed up with answering!


Yup thats a ridiculous comparison, why the eff should someone justify there pets all cos they choose not to ingest meat.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> Well, for all of the arguments over this, this thread has not had a single report sent to moderators - that must be a first for this sort of thing  - Don't prove me wrong and start reporting everything now :smilewinkgrin:


I am really chuffed to hear this!


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> Sadly my high horse rant was beaten by about 8 pages posted in between, that addressed this issue


I read your post, I promise. I just can't answer everyone, I would be here all night! But thank you for posting!


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> your never far away from rat in the UK Trust me I know
> And pigeons! dont you have em in the City?


oh yeah, there are plenty of skyrats, i sure wouldnt fancy eating one though. They probably carry all manner of horrible diseases. 
And i doubt that even the skyrats would be able to reproduce fast enough to feed a whole city full of people shooting them for food, when previously they havent really had to contend with predation.
Also, i dont like the idea of a city full of guns, it's bad enough already.


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> Yup thats a ridiculous comparison, why the eff should someone justify there pets all cos they choose not to ingest meat.


I explained on this thread once already why I asked that and on the other thread too. Its not ridiculous at all its a valid point. How can you tell someone they are cruel for eating meat when you add to the problem by purchasing it anyway!!!! I think veggies are great doing there bit but if your gonna tell me im cruel because I eat meat im gonna point out your not whiter than white too


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> Yes, we did!
> 
> Overkill, much!
> 
> ...


I've never mocked my family or friends for being veggie - I've definately debated/discussed with them our choices to eat or not to eat meat - I'm sorry that you have been.

I do think the 'do you have meat eating pets?' is a valid question if someone is trying to understand your point of view - it's one I struggle to understand and I appreciate it when friends take the time to explain their reasoning.
Just as I'm happy to explain my choices to them.


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

The difference is humans have a choice to eat meat or not, and can surive perfectly well without. 
& a pet cant do either of the above, we need to feed our pets a balanced, nutritious diet..If that incluces meat, so be it - we have to provide whats best for them, and put our morals behind us. Thats part of being a responsible owner


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Bloody kids just tried to murder me again..
> 
> LOLOLOL Im on it Lynn..


You behave yourself, you are supposed to set an example!


----------



## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

porps said:


> oh yeah, there are plenty of skyrats, i sure wouldnt fancy eating one though. They probably carry all manner of horrible diseases.
> And i doubt that even the skyrats would be able to reproduce fast enough to feed a whole city full of people shooting them for food, when previously they havent really had to contend with predation.
> Also, i dont like the idea of a city full of guns, it's bad enough already.


Answer - bring in the big birds, the one's that scare the skyrats away, no need for guns, scares the neighbours you know hmy:


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Devil-Dogz said:


> The difference is humans have a choice to eat meat or not, and can surive perfectly well without.
> & a pet cant do either of the above, we need to feed our pets a balanced, nutritious diet..If that incluces meat, so be it - we have to provide whats best for them, and put our morals behind us. Thats part of being a responsible owner


Please don't be mad at me  This is a genuine question.
Why have meat eating pets? 
By choosing 'veggie' pets you wouldn't have to put your morals behind you.


----------



## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

Devil-Dogz said:


> The difference is humans have a choice to eat meat or not, and can surive perfectly well without.
> & a pet cant do either of the above, we need to feed our pets a balanced, nutritious diet..If that incluces meat, so be it - we have to provide whats best for them, and put our morals behind us. Thats part of being a responsible owner


It would be incredibly cruel if you didn't. My teacher is also a part-time vet and she told me about how this vegetarian lady tried to make her cat vegetarian and it became so ill it died because they need a certain nutrient (ah, I can't for the life of me remember what it was which is really bad >.<) that they get from meat. 
Vegetarians HAVE to feed their omnivorous or carnivorous animals meat xD It's folly for people to call us out on that.


----------



## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> The difference is humans have a choice to eat meat or not, and can surive perfectly well without.
> & a pet cant do either of the above, we need to feed our pets a balanced, nutritious diet..If that incluces meat, so be it - we have to provide whats best for them, and put our morals behind us. Thats part of being a responsible owner


I beg to differ - the cat fraternity have the upper hand in that they can hunt on their own


----------



## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

^Some are house cats and never get to hunt.

@Fleur That's a valid question -- for me, it's because I'm not eating the meat myself and I don't need to eat meat. I can survive without. Some pets can't xxx


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Fleur said:


> I've never mocked my family or friends for being veggie - I've definately debated/discussed with them our choices to eat or not to eat meat - I'm sorry that you have been.
> 
> I do think the 'do you have meat eating pets?' is a valid question if someone is trying to understand your point of view - it's one I struggle to understand and I appreciate it when friends take the time to explain their reasoning.
> Just as I'm happy to explain my choices to them.


Okay.....Here's how I reason it. Wild animals eat meat/kill ie. tigers and lions and also my cats. Animals can't go to supermarkets.

Humans no longer need to eat meat, there are alternatives for people.

When they come out with a 100% cruelty/meat free cat food that is HEALTHY and doesn't cause heart problems, I will be first in the queue!

Then I will dance is the clouds, looking down on you all, polishing my halo (joke).


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Fleur said:


> Please don't be mad at me  This is a genuine question.
> Why have meat eating pets?
> By choosing 'veggie' pets you wouldn't have to put your morals behind you.


well to put a real spanner in the works..I cant answer that, I am not a veggie, I shamefully lasted all of 6 weeks 
Im not a really big meat eater, but I am not a veggie..all my dogs are fed a raw diet to.

- But I guess some people are prepared to put their morals behind them, for the animals they adore. I wouldnt stop owning dogs or feeding them what I feed them now, If I choose to be a veggie.


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> I explained on this thread once already why I asked that and on the other thread too. Its not ridiculous at all its a valid point. How can you tell someone they are cruel for eating meat when you add to the problem by purchasing it anyway!!!! I think veggies are great doing there bit but if your gonna tell me im cruel because I eat meat im gonna point out your not whiter than white too


My posts are not aimed at you in particular, but its bought up all the time in these threads not just this one, it isnt just about you, dont take it that way, and I never called anybody cruel or act all whiter then white show me that post ?


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> I beg to differ - the cat fraternity have the upper hand in that they can hunt on their own


House cats can't/don't!


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> It would be incredibly cruel if you didn't. My teacher is also a part-time vet and she told me about how this vegetarian lady tried to make her cat vegetarian and it became so ill it died because they need a certain nutrient (ah, I can't for the life of me remember what it was which is really bad >.<) that they get from meat.
> Vegetarians HAVE to feed their omnivorous or carnivorous animals meat xD It's folly for people to call us out on that.


taurine is the nutrient you are thinking of.
And without wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons, so to speak, you can have plenty of pets that are vegetarian


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> It would be incredibly cruel if you didn't. My teacher is also a part-time vet and she told me about how this vegetarian lady tried to make her cat vegetarian and it became so ill it died because they need a certain nutrient (ah, I can't for the life of me remember what it was which is really bad >.<) that they get from meat.
> Vegetarians HAVE to feed their omnivorous or carnivorous animals meat xD It's folly for people to call us out on that.


The lack of taurine (from muscle meats) is what the cats would have died from!


----------



## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

lymorelynn said:


> taurine is the nutrient you are thinking of.
> And without wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons, so to speak, you can have plenty of pets that are vegetarian





Flavourflav said:


> The lack of taurine (from muscle meats) is what the cats would have died from!


Yes, thankyou both xD Taurine. Completely slipped my mind for a second.


----------



## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> I beg to differ - the cat fraternity have the upper hand in that they can hunt on their own


Difficult for an indoor cat! which many aare these days!


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> I beg to differ - the cat fraternity have the upper hand in that they can hunt on their own


Yes and what is it they will hunt? meat, so no matter the owners morals they owe it to the cat to feed a sensible diet.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> taurine is the nutrient you are thinking of.
> And without wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons, so to speak, you can have plenty of pets that are vegetarian


I agree but cats aren't one of these pets, wish they were! 100% fatal for a cat to be veggie.

Dogs have been known to be able to cope with a veggie diet sucessfully (now that fact will REALLY put the cat amongst the pigeons)!!!!!!!


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> I agree but cats aren't one of these pets, wish they were! 100% fatal for a cat to be veggie.
> 
> *Dogs have been known to be able to cope with a veggie diet sucessfully (now that fact will REALLY put the cat amongst the pigeons)!!!!!!!*


Yes, because they can produce taurine, I think. *really needs to revise nutrition even though I only covered it two terms ago*.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

lymorelynn said:


> And without wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons, so to speak, you can have plenty of pets that are vegetarian


Of course some pets will do fine with a 'vegetarian diet', but I personally believe in feeding as near to a natural diet as possible.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Dogs have been known to be able to cope with a veggie diet sucessfully (now that fact will REALLY put the cat amongst the pigeons)!!!!!!!


i'll bite!
Personally i would want to feed food which my dog thrives on, not that which it can merely cope with.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> I agree but cats aren't one of these pets, wish they were! 100% fatal for a cat to be veggie.
> 
> Dogs have been known to be able to cope with a veggie diet sucessfully (now that fact will REALLY put the cat amongst the pigeons)!!!!!!!


I'm sure they can, I've never really researched it though, mine all eat (& enjoy) their raw meat, as do our cats, although the rats have their occasional chicken dinner cooked


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> Yes, because they can produce taurine, I think. *really needs to revise nutrition even though I only covered it two terms ago*.


No revision needed, you are correct!


----------



## Guest (Aug 1, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Of course some pets will do fine with a 'vegetarian diet', but I personally believe in feeding as near to a natural diet as possible.


Think you can feed a bunny a veggies Diet DD


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Think you can feed a bunny a veggies Diet DD


Indeed. Trust you


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> No revision needed, you are correct!


Yay! xD Well, I'm glad I learned something!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> Yes, because they can produce taurine, I think. *really needs to revise nutrition even though I only covered it two terms ago*.


yep they can (we did nutrition not long ago) I think its only cats that can't synthesise their own, & possibly ferrets but can't exactly remember


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

porps said:


> i'll bite!
> Personally i would want to feed food which my dog thrives on, not that which it can merely cope with.


I agree, I bet you are shocked. But humans can.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Well this is shameful, but the story of my life, I need to apologise to Claire for been harsh in my response, wasnt meant to sting, I word stuff a lil wrong at times, but dont want you feeling shitt for it. so well am bending over feel free to cyber spank me, I really am sorry.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> Well this is shameful, but the story of my life, I need to apologise to Claire for been harsh in my response, wasnt meant to sting, I word stuff a lil wrong at times, but dont want you feeling shitt for it. so well am bending over feel free to cyber spank me, I really am sorry.


Now there's an image to keep me awake tonight


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> so well am bending over feel free to cyber spank me, I really am sorry.


I cant find the start of the que!


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> Now there's an image to keep me awake tonight


you know ya want me


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Why do i have the feeling you may enjoy that WL lol xx


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Of course some pets will do fine with a 'vegetarian diet', but I personally believe in feeding as near to a natural diet as possible.


I was actually thinking of rabbits, guinea pigs etc. not pets that are natural carnivores or omnivores


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> you know ya want me


So near & yet so far
*sigh*


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

XxZoexX said:


> Why do i have the feeling you may enjoy that WL lol xx


I would


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Yes and what is it they will hunt? meat, so no matter the owners morals they owe it to the cat to feed a sensible diet.


Even fat cats hunt for pleasure, feeding them meat at home won't stop them hunting ... but this isn't a thread about cats predating (*sp) birds for pleasure


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> Even fat cats hunt for pleasure, feeding them meat at home won't stop them hunting ... but this isn't a thread about cats predating (*sp) birds for pleasure


I havent said that feeding a cat meat will stop them hunting. I have merely said cats hunt and eat meat, why should they make do with something else.


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## LouJ69 (Feb 28, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> Starting your thread for the discussion was wise keeps bordies on topic and yours. I think everyone has a right to there own opinion and i respect that for veggie people and meat people. I think being a vegatarian must take time and education to make sure you get the protein levels required. I couldn't do it but thats me and I accept that...


Lol, time and education?  Nobody told me that part 14 years ago when i gave up eating meat! I have the worst diet, seriously-I'm a vegetarian that doesn't eat vegetables! Honestly!



Leah84 said:


> i don`t get why we can`t all just agree to disagree, this is an argument that will never end and i respect everyone`s right to make their own choice. i wish i could be a veggie again but after how ill i became last time i just couldn`t risk it, especially not now i have kids to look after but i do respect people who can do it


I wish we could all agree to disagree, but that definitely ain't gonna happen here! Lol



Flavourflav said:


> My lifestyle does cause less cruelty, there is no way of getting away from that fact!
> 
> I am ALMOST vegan, but call myself veggie. As I said earlier I am not 100% cruelty free, but damn close. I am also well aware of the slaughter of calves in dairy farming, amongst other cruelties to the cows. I don't drink milk, or eat eggs. I will not go further into this, as my thread title is veggie not vegan.


I'm the same, vegetarian but don't eat much dairy, although i eat very little veggies too, so I dunno what that makes me 



Pointermum said:


> I don't eat meat because the animal was cute when i was about 6, i'm now 29 and still just don't feel the need to eat meat BUT i cook it for hubs and kids and the dogs get meat. I wish more people was like borderer and killed there own meat from free range animals that have never had the stress of being transported to slaughter house and such like.


I have to cook meals in work for the service users and so i have to cook meat there. Even though I don't eat meat, I don't expect them not to. Same as i don't expect my dogs not to eat meat. At the end off the day, it's my decision not to eat meat. They can't choose.



Flavourflav said:


> Witch hunt for veggies I think they mean, not me personally (I hope).
> 
> Being a veggie doesn't seem to go down well with the hard core crowd on here lol!


Lol, when you've been on here a while, you'll realise that a lot of things don't go down well with a lot of people on here......many seemingly simple things get turned into stupid rows and end up getting closed which is a shame as only for a handful of people, we could actually have some really interesting conversations/debates.



xXhayleyroxX said:


> I've been a vegetarian for 12 years because I don't think its right personally for me to eat animals when I adore them so much. I don't think meat-eaters are bad, however. Vegetarians get a lot of stick, but, just shrug it off and ignore it. Its hard, I know *hugs*.


I'm the same Hun! It can be hard, but as far as I see it, I'm glad I'm a veggie and i don't give a damn what anyone else thinks or says.



borderer said:


> veggie people are allways bad tempered cos they would love a hot beef sarnie


Lol, haven't you heard? Quorn do some lovely fake beef now too!!! 
IM NOT BAD TEMPERED! 



xXhayleyroxX said:


> Hugs to you both!
> 
> I though I'd clarify some things -- It's not what's been said in this thread really, and I've just joined the discussion but here's a few things I've had to deal with over the years from a vegetarian point of view:
> 
> ...


Definitely frowned upon by the meat eating public!!! Whenever someone shoves the whole meat thing in my face I usually make an animal squealing noise while they're eating their food! Lol



xXhayleyroxX said:


> Yeah my stepmum made me eat meat once and said it was vegetarian Quorn and I threw up everywhere because it was too rich for me after not eating meat for so long  Traumatic, isn't it


Aw, bless 



Irish Setter Gal said:


> I can't be a veggie - I'm allergic to Quorn - makes me throw up.
> 
> A little but common side effect apparently that isn't widely published


Never knew that...sounds charming! Lol



Devil-Dogz said:


> The difference is humans have a choice to eat meat or not, and can surive perfectly well without.
> & a pet cant do either of the above, we need to feed our pets a balanced, nutritious diet..If that incluces meat, so be it - we have to provide whats best for them, and put our morals behind us. Thats part of being a responsible owner


I agree, we can live without meat and it's our choice whether we eat it or not...pets don't have that luxury. 
Our canine teeth are canine in name only, if people say we have to eat meat cause we have canines, many animals have canines such as Horses and hippos-they dint eat meat.
Four million years ago, our ancestors were almost exclusively veggies. Darwin said that this was why we had appendixes after all.
We as humans actually share more biological factors with herbivores than we do with carnivores and omnivores.


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

I am off to bed now! Its been lovely chatting to you all. And lets keep this thread open, I don't want it closed like my pig/bacon thread.

Respect! :smilewinkgrin:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

LouJ69 said:


> Lol, time and education?  Nobody told me that part 14 years ago when i gave up eating meat! I have the worst diet, seriously-I'm a vegetarian that doesn't eat vegetables! Honestly!


Me too, I used to live off pasta & rice dishes although I've got much better lately & have a salad at least twice a week


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## LouJ69 (Feb 28, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> Me too, I used to live off pasta & rice dishes although I've got much better lately & have a salad at least twice a week


I find salad soooo boring though! Unless i have a shite load of dressing or something with it, i can't eat it!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

LouJ69 said:


> I find salad soooo boring though! Unless i have a shite load of dressing or something with it, i can't eat it!


I'm the exact opposite, if it's got anything on it I can't eat it, if it's warm or even slightly wilted I can't either- I often have salad & new potatoes & I can't have the potatoes touching the salad as they make it go all warm & wilty


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## LouJ69 (Feb 28, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm the exact opposite, if it's got anything on it I can't eat it, if it's warm or even slightly wilted I can't either- I often have salad & new potatoes & I can't have the potatoes touching the salad as they make it go all warm & wilty


Lol, i hate it when stuff goes wake and Wilty! Lol

I'm on a fried rice buzz at the moment, last month it was a cereal buzz...seems to change all the time!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm the exact opposite, if it's got anything on it I can't eat it, if it's warm or even slightly wilted I can't either- I often have salad & new potatoes & I can't have the potatoes touching the salad as they make it go all warm & wilty


:lol; :lol: :lol:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

LouJ69 said:


> Lol, i hate it when stuff goes wake and Wilty! Lol
> 
> I'm on a fried rice buzz at the moment, last month it was a cereal buzz...seems to change all the time!


I do that, I'll eat something so much I'll get sick of it & then won't eat it for ages, the only thing that I never seem to get sick of is margarita pizza loaded with mushrooms:thumbup:
Wish I was mushroom savvy so I could go out & pick wild ones but knowing me I'd either end up poisoning myself or going on a psilocybin trip:crazy:


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## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

LouJ69 said:


> I'm the same Hun! It can be hard, but as far as I see it, I'm glad I'm a veggie and i don't give a damn what anyone else thinks or says.
> 
> Definitely frowned upon by the meat eating public!!! Whenever someone shoves the whole meat thing in my face I usually make an animal squealing noise while they're eating their food! Lol


*hugs* And omg making animal sounds when they eat <3!


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## LouJ69 (Feb 28, 2009)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> *hugs* And omg making animal sounds when they eat <3!


Yep, I do a brill squealing pig impression! Lol


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Sorry had to go and collect my daughter from the pub.
Getting tired and struggling to read everyones posts.
Did any veggies answer my question - why have meat eating pets, why not choose veggie pets such as rabbits so not to compromise your believes?

I'm not having a go - I know that I'm pretty hypocritical and imperfect when it comes to buying different foods.
I try my best to source ethical meats - but have on occasion when monies been very tight bought cheap chicken, I sometimes buy ready meals/pies and I'm sure the meat content of these aren't from the best sources  I feed my dogs Burns - I believe it's a good food but if I'm honest I've never looked into how they source the meat.
I just wanted to say this to show I'm not perfect nor do I expect anyone else to be - but I'm interested as to why a veggie with strong ethics about the meat industry would choose a pet that would mean them buying products from the very industry they are trying to change?


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## LouJ69 (Feb 28, 2009)

Fleur said:


> Sorry had to go and collect my daughter from the pub.
> Getting tired and struggling to read everyones posts.
> Did any veggies answer my question - why have meat eating pets, why not choose veggie pets such as rabbits so not to compromise your believes?
> 
> ...


Well, I dunno about anyone else, i can only speak for myself. Basically, my beliefs are exactly that, my beliefs. I don't expect anyone else, human or otherwise to share my beliefs. Earlier on i said I know that my dogs *need* meat a lot more than i do, so therefore, even though i am compromising my beliefs, i do it coz i love my dogs. I'm not really trying to change the industry...obviously I think there are a lot of things that could and should be changed, but I honestly can't see that changing any time soon. 
Hope that makes sense.....getting tired and tipsy now! Lol


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Fleur said:


> Sorry had to go and collect my daughter from the pub.
> Getting tired and struggling to read everyones posts.
> Did any veggies answer my question - why have meat eating pets, why not choose veggie pets such as rabbits so not to compromise your believes?
> 
> ...


I had my cats before I was a veggie. They are both old men now. I have always said I won't replace them when they pass. (But whether I manage that is another story).

Right, I am deffo off to bed!


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## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

I have just finished reading the entire thread! Does that make me a saint? 

My opinion is this;

I don't care whether you're veggie, vegan or omnivorous, to each his own. I have taken far more flack from vegetarians though than I have ever given out. "How can you eat that - blah, blah, blah" while I am eating is very rude and uncalled for. Or the "Well at least I am trying to help the animals" etc.. Yes it does put people on the defensive as it comes across as "I am superior" and you will get responses accordingly. It's far better to post studies or even recipes like LFL does to get people into *trying* a meat free meal on their own.

FTR it would be a difficult thing for me to give up meat altogether as I have food intolerances that get in the way. I eat quite a few meat alternatives, but don't feel guilty at all by consuming meat/fish/poultry that is good for my body. And I am careful about the meats and the vegetables I buy. My OH eats only fish and shellfish, probably two or three times per week and has done so for years.

And I will say (as I've said before) that there have been studies done showing that plants do indeed feel pain. In fact many of the vegetables we eat are alive themselves when we consume them. The carrot peeled and cut into sticks, the potato boiled alive. Unless you are only eating the fruit or nuts that have fallen off the tree/plant you are indeed killing what you eat.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

after an hour or 2 lying restless in my bed i realised its far too hot to sleep tonight.. but while i lay there was unfortunately still pondering this debate.

One of the things i wondered about is what would happen if everyone in the country stopped eating meat.
Well obviously there would be a lot of people out of work. Basically everyone in the meat trade, and their families. Economically it would be quite disastrous i fear. But thats not all. 
What would then happen to all the cows/sheep/pigs ? Would we release them into the wild (even though they are domesticated animals)? And if we did, how would that effect the natural ecosystem? if you take humans out of the equation there are no natural predators for cows left in Britain.
Without a natural predator the population of these animals could potentially skyrocket. And if that happens then you get overgrazing. If overgrazing by a dominant species becomes a problem as it surely would without predation, then other species will inevitably suffer, through loss of habitat and scarcity of food.

What could we do? Well we could allow the release of these animals despite the fact that it may cause the eventual extinction of other species, we could introduce a predator to control their population (also risking unbalancing the ecosystem and potentially causing extinctions), or cull the livestock ourselves. None of them seem like particuarly great options. though i wouldnt mind them reintroducing wolves, i do like wolverines! Such amazing animals. Doesnt seem to be entirely cruelty free though .. "run free cows, we wont eat you anymore, enjoy your freedom (but be fast, we're sending the wolves after you!)"
At one point it may have been possible for us to build a meatless society. But that time has long since passed


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

porps said:


> after an hour or 2 lying restless in my bed i realised its far too hot to sleep tonight.. but while i lay there was unfortunately still pondering this debate.
> 
> One of the things i wondered about is what would happen if everyone in the country stopped eating meat.
> Well obviously there would be a lot of people out of work. Basically everyone in the meat trade, and their families. Economically it would be quite disastrous i fear. But thats not all.
> ...


No we certainly wouldnt release domestic animals into the wild for just that reason they dont belong in any ecosystems so it would be a catastrophy, even being farmed as they are now they do a great deal of damage the planet,

ideally as more people ate less meat less animals would be bred so numbers would reduce naturally.

heres a few facts on the damage to the environment caused by rearing animals for meat..............

Climate change
According to latest figures from the United Nations, animal farming globally causes more greenhouse gas emissions than all of the cars, lorries and planes in the world put together, and the effect is increasing.[1] The reasons for this are complicated, but are associated with several factors:
•Large amounts of animal feed need to be produced to make relatively small amounts of meat or milk - around 7kg of grain for 1kg of beef; 4kg of grain for 1kg of pork; 2kg of grain for 1kg of poultry.

•Nitrogen fertilisers are used to produce animal feed, resulting in energy use and emissions of, for example, the powerful greenhouse gas nitrous oxide.

•Livestock (particularly ruminants such as cows and sheep) emit high levels of methane from their digestive systems.

•Natural 'carbon sinks' such as forests, that can absorb carbon dioxide, are destroyed to make way for animal grazing, or crops for animal feed, so removing trees and disturbing or destroying soil.

•Animals, their feed and the resulting animal products are usually transported, often over large distances, and usually in energy-intensive refrigerated conditions.

•The demand for meat and dairy products is increasing, especially in booming Eastern economies, shifting from traditional diets to a more Western pattern of consumption. 
What can we do about it?

Eat less meat
The conclusion is that we should all eat less meat (especially red meat and processed meat) and fewer products of animal origin, both to reduce significantly our effects on the environment, and to improve our health. While the number of vegetarians in the UK has remained relatively stable over recent years, evidence suggests that more and more people are trying to eat less meat - indeed some market research suggests that 'meat reducers' account for 45% of the population.[8]

To reduce the environmental impact of the food you eat you can, for example: 
•Reduce the amount of red and processed meat you use overall. Prepare food that uses smaller amounts of flavoursome meat to good effect, with the bulk of the meal being made of foods of plant origin.

•Try out more vegetarian options with higher levels of fruit, vegetable and wholegrain ingredients, and reduced amounts of fat and animal products (i.e. not simply replacing a meat component with cheese). Why not start with a meat-free day, and build up to more veggie meals from there

Meat and dairy products: less is more
and as for jobs and the economy well my oh's been made redundant 3 times and had to find work in different fields.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fleur said:


> Sorry had to go and collect my daughter from the pub.
> Getting tired and struggling to read everyones posts.
> Did any veggies answer my question - why have meat eating pets, why not choose veggie pets such as rabbits so not to compromise your believes?
> 
> ...


i can only answer for myself and say yes i am hypocritical for having dogs because i would never deny them meat, i know i do more than some people but not as much as others, those who go further and are strict vegan without meat eating pets then i have incredible admiration for them, because they play no part at all in the suffering of animals that does go on in the farming/meat industry, im a strict vegetarian, practically an ovo vegetarian because i rarely touch dairy.. im just doing the best i can i think if everyone cut down on buying meat it can only be good news for farmed animals.


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## Nithnell (Aug 22, 2010)

I understand that there will always be opposing views on the vegetarian vs meat eating debate, but what I cannot stand from *some* vegetarians is the holier-than thou approach that they take towards the meat eaters and producers. As most of you know I am a sheep farmer, we breed sheep purely for the dinner plate, and we obey the very strict animal welfare rules put in place by the government regarding how they are treated, transported etc. Yes they are animals, but in very basic terms are also commodities, and they make me money.

I can understand why people become vegetarian, but it is not for them to start criticising what I eat or do for a living or start shoving their views down my throat. My animals are well looked after and for me that is all that matters, even if some do find what happens at the end unsavoury.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

i can`t believe this is still going on, i feel like a broken record but really - can`t we just respect one another and the different views/life choices we all have and leave it at that?? you`re never all gonna agree and the world would be a very boring place if we all did.

whilst some may say the world would be a better place if there were no meat eaters - i also hear the opposing side from friends who are farmers and would lose everything if that were true (their animals also happen to be free range - kept out on the common and can roam as far as they like within the cattle grates so do actually have a good life). there will ALWAYS be opposing arguments and valid points to back up both sides but it doesn`t give people from either view a right to try and force their belief upon anyone else. it`s much the same as the religious vs non believers argument, it`s never ending and people get pissed if religious people try to force their beliefs on them and the cycle goes round and round in circles - just drop it!

i realise i`m rambling again, it seems to be a morning thing for me right now but hope that actually made sense


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Nithnell said:


> I understand that there will always be opposing views on the vegetarian vs meat eating debate, but what I cannot stand from *some* vegetarians is the holier-than thou approach that they take towards the meat eaters and producers. As most of you know I am a sheep farmer, we breed sheep purely for the dinner plate, and we obey the very strict animal welfare rules put in place by the government regarding how they are treated, transported etc. Yes they are animals, but in very basic terms are also commodities, and they make me money.
> 
> I can understand why people become vegetarian, but it is not for them to start criticising what I eat or do for a living or start shoving their views down my throat. My animals are well looked after and for me that is all that matters, even if some do find what happens at the end unsavoury.





Leah84 said:


> i can`t believe this is still going on, i feel like a broken record but really - can`t we just respect one another and the different views/life choices we all have and leave it at that?? you`re never all gonna agree and the world would be a very boring place if we all did.
> 
> whilst some may say the world would be a better place if there were no meat eaters - i also hear the opposing side from friends who are farmers and would lose everything if that were true (their animals also happen to be free range - kept out on the common and can roam as far as they like within the cattle grates so do actually have a good life). there will ALWAYS be opposing arguments and valid points to back up both sides but it doesn`t give people from either view a right to try and force their belief upon anyone else. it`s much the same as the religious vs non believers argument, it`s never ending and people get pissed if religious people try to force their beliefs on them and the cycle goes round and round in circles - just drop it!
> 
> i realise i`m rambling again, it seems to be a morning thing for me right now but hope that actually made sense


if these are aimed at me i was mearly responding to a post that caught my eye...im not shoving anything down anyones throats or forcing my opinion on anyone


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> if these are aimed at me i was mearly responding to a post that caught my eye...im not shoving anything down anyones throats or forcing my opinion on anyone


no my response wasn`t aimed at you, well it wasn`t aimed at anyone for that matter it was just a general response to the thread


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Leah84 said:


> no my response wasn`t aimed at you, well it wasn`t aimed at anyone for that matter it was just a general response to the thread


Think there are certain topics Leah that will always tempt those for and against to air their views! T'is not only the veggie threads, there's relegion, and training techniques to name just two.

Guess a few of us have been on that roundabout a few times! REckon I have learnt when to get off now! normally when I am dizzy

But guess there is no harm done really - and the battle scares do heal quickly! Just important to remember not to carry and indifferences over onto other threads if you want my view!


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Think there are certain topics Leah that will always tempt those for and against to air their views! T'is not only the veggie threads, there's relegion, and training techniques to name just two.
> 
> Guess a few of us have been on that roundabout a few times! REckon I have learnt when to get off now! normally when I am dizzy
> 
> But guess there is no harm done really - and the battle scares do heal quickly! Just important to remember not to carry and indifferences over onto other threads if you want my view!


Hear hear. Now stop being nice to me, you've made me cry once already this morning


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Hear hear. Now stop being nice to me, you've made me cry once already this morning


Thats because I am a big softie at heart!
Seriously! I have had some terrible tiffs on threads! but it has ALL been forgotton on the net! And more often them not often my worse enemy is often my staunchist ally


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Took me ages to get ready this morning....my halo slipped and took me ages putting it back!


If only as humans we could learn to live and accept others differences to our own.


I think the majority of the people on this forum do their best for animal welfare and whilst some might do more than others, I don't think it is a competition?

If every one in this Country made a small change to their eating habits i.e only free range eggs or outdoor reared pork for instance this alone would have a huge difference to animals lifes.

Anyhow such a beautiful day, going to take the children and dog to Rutland Water, have a nice walk, picnic by the water and if the kids are good they might even get an ice cream!


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

I have had both a friend and a boyfriend in the past who were veggies ( not literally  )

It never caused any issues even when we went out for meals or cooked dinner for each other.

We respected each others choices and it was never a problem.

The same with this forum - we have those who eat meat and those who don't. 

It's up to the individual and no one should be made to feel unwelcomed on here for their choices on either side.

Nor should what you personally eat make any difference to owning a pet.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I applaud anyone who stands up for what they believe in - its commendable - if you are passionate about something and want to make a difference then it can only be a good thing - however! - I think you also have to understand that not everyone is going to agree with your views  and that does not make them a bad person either - for me things like being a veggie or meat eater are very personal choices and neither choice should be condemned by the other ..... I certainly would not look at just the fact you are a vegetarian and come to the conclusion you are a saint or anything else tbo ......opinions on peoples characters are based on a lot more than that imo


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## manic rose (Mar 12, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> If only as humans we could learn to live and accept others differences to our own.


I've been veggie for over 6 years now and have learnt to just brush it off when people get funny about me being veggie. my eating habits dont affect them so why should they get in a state about it? I believe in what I'm doing and its up to them how they live their life and what they eat. I've learnt to have a joke about it - call myself a "rubbish veggie" as rarely eat fruit and veg and even my boyfriend now refers to steak, when he has it, as his "dead animal on a plate".


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I do not have anything against veggies..most of my Hindu friends are ...but at least they do not climb on moral high grounds if anyone eats meat...
It is the preaching that gets peeps going...not anyone's eating habits...

I do not mind - whaever you diet is..my good friend is frutarian ..plus eats all plants raw!!!...as long as i am not told to my face that I am eating a corpse etc..not nice during a meal?...
During harvest many little rodents die, lose their homes etc...and plants have feelings too..find Metame's story about Roger The Carrot...


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## Nithnell (Aug 22, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> if these are aimed at me i was mearly responding to a post that caught my eye...im not shoving anything down anyones throats or forcing my opinion on anyone


No hun not at all, I was just venting my frustration at some of the people I have to deal with 'in real life' who can't see accept any view point other than their own. I'm happy for people to disagree, and they are entitled to their views but they have no right to criticise or at times damn right interfere with what i do.


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## teganfaulkner (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm a vegetarian.

It was a personal lifestyle choice that I made for myself 20 years ago.

My OH is not a vegetarian. That is a personal lifestyle choice he has made for himself.

I ask that people respect my lifestyle choices, so in turn I respect theres.

At the end of the day we are all faced with choices everyday about how we live our lives. Ranging from what we eat, what we wear, how we raise our children and what kind of house we live in. These choices are our own, personal to us, and quite frankly no one else's business.

If someone wants to ask me about my vegetarianism I'll gladly talk about it for hours, however I'm not going to start jumping down my friends throats because they've decided to have the chicken for lunch, that's up to them. 

So basically my point I guess is, live and let live, make the choices you want to in your life and respect other people's right to choice. And if anyone wants to ask a veggie any questions about my lifestyle or if you're thinking of giving it a go, just give me a hollar! xx


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

24 page long debate thread, and not one threat of closure - that has to be a record on PF, surely

Well done everyone hmy:


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## Nithnell (Aug 22, 2010)

We're successfully having a debate rather than an argument :lol:


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## LouJ69 (Feb 28, 2009)

teganfaulkner said:


> I'm a vegetarian.
> 
> It was a personal lifestyle choice that I made for myself 20 years ago.
> 
> ...


I'm exactly the same....there are lots of different ways to love your life, we don't all have to be the same, we don't even have to agree with each others choices. Just because I don't eat meat, doesn't mean that i expect everyone else to be the same. What i would like however, is that people respect my choice not to eat meat just like i respect their choice to eat it. Simple really! Lol



Irish Setter Gal said:


> 24 page long debate thread, and not one threat of closure - that has to be a record on PF, surely
> 
> Well done everyone hmy:


Lol, i was thinking the same! We must either be getting more mature, or maybe all the troublemakers are gone!


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## LouJ69 (Feb 28, 2009)

Nithnell said:


> We're successfully having a debate rather than an argument :lol:


Yeah, but on here most debates turn into arguments!


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## Nithnell (Aug 22, 2010)

LouJ69 said:


> Yeah, but on here most debates turn into arguments!


lol I know. I'm impressed we've got this far.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Irish Setter Gal said:


> 24 page long debate thread, and not one threat of closure - that has to be a record on PF, surely
> 
> Well done everyone hmy:


You called Malady Heard my services may be needed


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

Wow, long thread & no reports or thread locking. Thats quite a feat.

Short answer FF, in my opinion, no being a vegetarian doesn't make you a saint.

I was vegetarian from the age of 16, (parents wouldn't let us before that) until I was 35, then failed very badly with a delicious home cooked lamb curry at a friends house. wft!!!! It just smelled so good & before my conscience had the chance to slap me, I was tucking in.

Anyway, as bad as I felt, I kept on eating meat after that (strangely enough,never touched lamb again)

However after reading through this thread, I think I'm going to go back to being vegetarian again. I don't think that it makes me a saint though by any means, on this or any other forum. Vegetarianism is a lifestyle *choice* & not everyone does it for ethical/animal welfare reasons. My 30yr old niece is vegetarian & has been since she was 12 but for her her its nothing to do with eating animals, she just doesn't like the texture or taste of cooked meat. She also eats cheese of any kind & sports mixtures, fruit gums etc.

Veganism is very different, although still a lifestyle choice. I became vegan aged 22 (inc honey) but only managed to keep it up for 7 months though. I felt really healthy, though lacking in energy fairly often, but I'll admit, I was right up my own butt with superiority. I even looked down on vegetarians Well that bubble burst soon enough I missed proper chocolate too much, so back to just being a veggie.

Another point which has been raised on here is the one about 'keeping pets who eat meat etc'. Well thats really a moo point (cows opinion) I love my dogs & all my other meat eating pets that I've had & I wouldn't impose my lifestyle choices on them or anyone else. Thats a bit like saying 'how can you keep your kids if they eat meat' well not really, but I know what I mean.

Anyway vegetarianism. Here I come.........Again


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## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

Ok I am just writing this post as a veggie simply to put into words how I see things and how things make me feel. It isnt a criticism of anyone here. It isnt a criticism of meat eaters even its just meant to be a snapshot of a vegetarian take on things/thought processes. I am only speaking for myself not for all vegetarians  thought Id just clear that up first.

I dont see an animal in terms of its purpose, I just see the animal for what it is. Therefore I cant understand on any level the train of thought that goes thats a nice cow/goat/sheep/chicken, I like that animal therefore I want it to be killed I dont understand why someone would want to kill or be responsible for the death of something that lives and breathes and that they appreciate and like you see. If you hate something then I can understand why you might want it to be killed. Basic stuff, I know but for me personally it is as basic as that.

I dont see how liking and loving animals naturally leads to being ok with them being killed for your benefit you see (and this is the bit I am standing by to get flamed for!) but I truly believe this is *not a reflection on other people *it simply goes back to my first point about *me personally *not being able to mentally segregate animals out according to purpose, perhaps this is my failing  It just isnt my natural train of thought. I realise its a very basic level of understanding but I just dont have it  and I dont think Ive ever had it, or will have it. Its just simply something that _some_ vegetarians cant reconcile in their minds. Hey Im just being honest!

Thing is right  my partner is a sheep farmer. Is he the most wonderful person ever? Yes he is! Hes gentle and loving and caring, and has ten times the amount of patience that Ive got. He knows the countryside inside out and loves it. Can I sit here and describe him as not being an animal lover? - no I honestly can not. I just cant comprehend in any way shape or form why he does what he does  and I might get roasted for it but at the end of the day I think its _ok_ to admit that you dont understand something! Otherwise how do we ever learn!  It doesnt matter, its his choice and thats fine, in some ways I dont need to understand it. To be honest on a daily basis the subject never even comes up, but the key thing is - neither is the subject avoided. Equally it is my choice to try and ensure that I am personally contributing as little as possible to a trade and concept that I just dislike. I can do that by getting everything I need in a healthy diet from eating seeds, grains, pulses, vegetables  nothing has to die for me to eat and thats fine by me. What other people think or how people judge that kind of approach is interesting to me but doesn't actually have any bearing.

Apologies for the long post but I think that its ok to harp on about the pros and cons of vegetarianism and go backwards and forwards with veggies v non veggies (thats been done to death) but it should just be about choice at the end of the day and Id rather do a post about what makes me think the way I do in the hope that it leads to an understanding on some level, whether people perceive it as right or wrong  or are indifferent.

Congratulations if you've got to the end and please understand this is not meant as an attack on what anyone else feels is right or acceptable - just meant to be an honest insight into how I see things.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> I applaud anyone who stands up for what they believe in - its commendable - if you are passionate about something and want to make a difference then it can only be a good thing - however! - I think you also have to understand that not everyone is going to agree with your views  and that does not make them a bad person either - for me things like being a veggie or meat eater are very personal choices and neither choice should be condemned by the other ..... I certainly would not look at just the fact you are a vegetarian and come to the conclusion you are a saint or anything else tbo ......opinions on peoples characters are based on a lot more than that imo


I don't think I am a saint, the title was tongue in cheek  But I THOUGHT being a veggie/vegan would be seen as more acceptable on this forum than in other forums, for the reason Kaz described in her above post. That was the point I was trying to make with my thread title!

And I could accept someone with a flawed "character" , but not accept someone who goes out and kills animals for fun.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Nithnell said:


> I understand that there will always be opposing views on the vegetarian vs meat eating debate, but what I cannot stand from *some* vegetarians is the holier-than thou approach that they take towards the meat eaters and producers. As most of you know I am a sheep farmer, we breed sheep purely for the dinner plate, and we obey the very strict animal welfare rules put in place by the government regarding how they are treated, transported etc. Yes they are animals, but in very basic terms are also commodities, and they make me money.
> 
> I can understand why people become vegetarian, but it is not for them to start criticising what I eat or do for a living or start shoving their views down my throat. My animals are well looked after and for me that is all that matters, even if some do find what happens at the end unsavoury.


Why are veggies accused of being holier-than thou? Its a fact our life style causes less suffering/killing of animals. So therefore we veggies/vegans do walk the moral higher ground here in regards to animal cruelty and welfare, thats a fact, not me being holier-than thou.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Leah84 said:


> no my response wasn`t aimed at you, well it wasn`t aimed at anyone for that matter it was just a general response to the thread


Forums are for discussion, and learning from each other. Its called debate, thats what is so attractive about forums. If you don't like my thread, you can ignore it, but all members on this thread have stayed civil and respectful to each other, so where is the problem?


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## manic rose (Mar 12, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Why are veggies accused of being holier-than thou? Its a fact our life style causes less suffering/killing of animals. So therefore we veggies/vegans do walk the moral higher ground here in regards to animal cruelty and welfare, thats a fact, not me being holier-than thou.


its weird that I'm veggie yet have had people look down on me for eating dairy.....even tho they are meat eaters! :huh: cant quite get my head round that one, surely I am doing less damage to the animals than they are!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

manic rose said:


> its weird that I'm veggie yet have had people look down on me for eating dairy.....even tho they are meat eaters! :huh: cant quite get my head round that one, surely I am doing less damage to the animals than they are!


Oh, I hear you! People don't like their concious being pricked, so go on the attack. Because there is never a defense for causing animlas to suffer, so their only defense is attack!


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Why are veggies accused of being holier-than thou? Its a fact our life style causes less suffering/killing of animals. So therefore we veggies/vegans do walk the moral higher ground here in regards to animal cruelty and welfare, thats a fact, not me being holier-than thou.


I differ in that it's not a moral high ground to be taken. It's a personal choice taken by some (not all) born out of a rejection of current animal welfare standards. In the medieval ages people who could afford slaughtered their own and veggies were primarily restricted by income or religion, it wasn't about moral standards. Animals were reared to provide produce in one format or another. Morality crept into the veggie movement as farming methods became more intensive resulting in the cutting of corners.

Moral high grounds can lead to evangelicalism and then fanaticism - which is when eventually sides are taken, but how do you decide what is the right side eg Catholic vs CofE, both are right - just wish religions were more tolerant of each others beliefs.

My stance has always been that if I am to eat an animal then the least I can do is make sure that animal has been treated well before it dies for me - a little bit of respect for it's life given is not much to ask.

Most on this forum would no doubt be mortified at the thought of eating 'dog or horse', but in some cultures it is merely another source of meat. In the UK we have a moral block to this type of animal consumption since we treat them as companions rather than a source of food.

If we were all allowed to slaughter our own meat then some may find it a more distasteful task to behold, but it's only because we have become so divorced from our true hunter gatherer nature - we are in the situation we are with modern farming methods, it can't be undone, but we are free to choose how we now gather our food.

Now waits for the genetically modified food debate


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

I hear you also Red setter, and believe you make some good points re. respect to animals.

But, and its a big but. Humanity moves on, we evolve and opinions of right and wrongs change. Husbands used to be able to rape their wives without fear of prosecution from the law. We no longer think this is acceptable and it is unlawful now, thus thought processes change. I hope the day will come that veggies are larger in number than meat eaters, as thoughts of what is acceptable, changes down the coming decades.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> I don't think I am a saint, the title was tongue in cheek  But I THOUGHT being a veggie/vegan would be seen as more acceptable on this forum than in other forums, for the reason Kaz described in her above post. That was the point I was trying to make with my thread title!
> 
> And I could accept someone with a flawed "character" , but not accept someone who goes out and kills animals for fun.


I quite agree that anyone who kills animals for fun is in the wrong and it is not acceptable - I am a meat eater - but I do love animals I think that just because u eat meat does not mean u are not an animal lover


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> I hear you also Red setter, and believe you make some good points re. respect to animals.
> 
> But, and its a big but. Humanity moves on, we evolve and opinions of right and wrongs change. Husbands used to be able to rape their wives without fear of prosecution from the law. We no longer think this is acceptable and it is unlawful now, thus thought processes change. I hope the day will come that veggies are larger in number than meat eaters, as thoughts of what is acceptable, changes down the coming decades.


Sadly I think the banning of alcohol and tobacco are ahead in the queue for domination


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Flavourflav said:


> I don't think I am a saint, the title was tongue in cheek  But I THOUGHT being a veggie/vegan would be seen as more acceptable on this forum than in other forums, for the reason Kaz described in her above post. That was the point I was trying to make with my thread title!
> 
> And I could accept someone with a flawed "character" , but not accept someone who goes out and kills animals for fun.


Not a single person on here has said that any kind of vegetarianism is unacceptable. Personally I admire anyone who will change how they live for their beliefs.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I do find pompous claims to a moral high ground irritating....that doesn't make me anti-veggie, it makes me against people with superiority complexes.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Not a single person on here has said that any kind of vegetarianism is unacceptable. Personally I admire anyone who will change how they live for their beliefs.
> I can't speak for anyone else, but I do find pompous claims to a moral high ground irritating....that doesn't make me anti-veggie, it makes me against people with superiority complexes.


Well said Myshkin, I have no issue with people living their own lives but their own ideals but I do have issues when they feel superior because of it, and is it not just as rude for Veggies/Vegans to criticise what we eat as it is for us to criticise what they eat, I suppose what that comes down is manners rather than morals though


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## Nithnell (Aug 22, 2010)

Flavourflav said:


> Why are veggies accused of being holier-than thou? Its a fact our life style causes less suffering/killing of animals. So therefore we veggies/vegans do walk the moral higher ground here in regards to animal cruelty and welfare, thats a fact, not me being holier-than thou.


Ah but I see that as being your opinion not fact- my sheep are extremely well cared for, I am not cruel to them  Why does the fact that you have a different view to mine gives you the right to feel that you are morally superior over me? (Apologies if thats not the case but its how its coming across)Animals have been food for millenia for many people, I am merely carrying on that tradition.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

myshkin said:


> Not a single person on here has said that any kind of vegetarianism is unacceptable. Personally I admire anyone who will change how they live for their beliefs.
> I can't speak for anyone else, but I do find pompous claims to a moral high ground irritating....that doesn't make me anti-veggie, it makes me against people with superiority complexes.


couldn`t agree more!! like i said i have no problems with veggies and i was one for 10 years but this seems more like the op thinks they`re better than others who eat meat and the more posts i`ve read the more it`s becoming evident that they also think everyone else should convert to their ways.

i`m sorry but comparing people eating meat to a husband raping his wife and stating that hopefully soon it will be just as unacceptable as peoples views change??? i think that`s taking it a step too far, sorry a massive leap too far. it`s not for you to judge anyone else or the choices they make, there`s a difference between having a discussion as some on here are and trying to belittle others cause you think you`re better or know best!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> Oh, I hear you! People don't like their concious being pricked, so go on the attack. Because there is never a defense for causing animlas to suffer, so their only defense is attack!


Its apparently OK for some, though by no means all, meat eaters (gonna be a rampant sexist here & say it IS mostly men meat eaters!) to take the mick out of us for our lifestyle choices- saying I'm pasty or need to eat a PROPER diet, waving bacon about or saying 'mmmmm' every time they have a mouthful of something meaty, I don't wave bits of Quorn or a lettuce in their faces saying things that might be construed as hurtful to more sensitive people


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

GreyHare said:


> Well said Myshkin, I have no issue with people living their own lives but their own ideals but I do have issues when they feel superior because of it, and is it not just as rude for Veggies/Vegans to criticise what we eat as it is for us to criticise what they eat, I suppose what that comes down is manners rather than morals though


As has been said before on this thread one lifestyle is almost cruelty free and one inflicts pain and suffering onto animals. So yes, one is MORALLY better than the other, its got nothing to do with manners, its just a fact!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> Its apparently OK for some, though by no means all, meat eaters (gonna be a rampant sexist here & say it IS mostly men meat eaters!) to take the mick out of us for our lifestyle choices- saying I'm pasty or need to eat a PROPER diet, waving bacon about or saying 'mmmmm' every time they have a mouthful of something meaty, I don't wave bits of Quorn or a lettuce in their faces saying things that might be construed as hurtful to more sensitive people


Exactly! You are absolutely correct. One look at my bacon/pig cruelty thread from the weekend illustrates your point beautifully. I lost count of the number of pics of bacon sandwiches and meat pics that were posted on it to try and upset the veggies  One link by BDA had to be removed from thread altogether (not by my request, I just ignored it).


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Nithnell said:


> Ah but I see that as being your opinion not fact- my sheep are extremely well cared for, I am not cruel to them  Why does the fact that you have a different view to mine gives you the right to feel that you are morally superior over me? (Apologies if thats not the case but its how its coming across)Animals have been food for millenia for many people, I am merely carrying on that tradition.


I recognise that good farmers like yourself care for the animals during their lives, but the end result is a slaughter house, fear (perhaps even torture), pain and death.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Well In my book You are no more superior to be a veggie.. Or to be someone who enjoys meat.. The less superior are the ones that try to ram it down your throat.. we should respect each others decisions on how we live our lives. And get over it..


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> As has been said before on this thread one lifestyle is almost cruelty free and one inflicts pain and suffering onto animals. So yes, one is MORALLY better than the other, its got nothing to do with manners, its just a fact!


I think it has everything to with manners and respect and I will take those over morals any day


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Nithnell said:


> Ah but I see that as being your opinion not fact- my sheep are extremely well cared for, I am not cruel to them  Why does the fact that you have a different view to mine gives you the right to feel that you are morally superior over me? (Apologies if thats not the case but its how its coming across)Animals have been food for millenia for many people, I am merely carrying on that tradition.


I could also whinge that the meat eaters are coming across superior, and pick out certain members. But all my posts are talking generally, not picking at any one member in particular. People are choosing to take it personally.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

This has been an interesting and good debate and I'd hate to see it derailed by the argument over moral superiority


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

GreyHare said:


> I think it has everything to with manners and respect and I will take those over morals any day


Ted Bundy was the perfect gentleman, who had wonderful manners and paid respect. But, he had NO morals and killed many women. Morals are far more important than manners, anyday!


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## Nithnell (Aug 22, 2010)

Flavourflav said:


> I recognise that good farmers like yourself care for the animals during their lives, but the end result is a slaughter house, fear (perhaps even torture), pain and death.


Fair enough, it sounded like a thinly veiled dig, as though I was being directly accused of causing suffering because of my job. I do agree that the end result isn't very nice, though I know for certain my local abbatoir try to be as humane and as quick as possible.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> I recognise that good farmers like yourself care for the animals during their lives, but the end result is a slaughter house, fear (perhaps even torture), pain and death.


I know some people that work in the pig industry and they don't torture, I guess if you are a meat eater (I am) then you need to check out the facilities I do....I also don't have any issues with veggie people I respect their choice like they respect mine makes them no better nor any worse than me....there is one chicken place I don't buy from do not like their practises but I do know local chicken farmers and use them..


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Just as out of interest FF did you see this article about cat food

Paws for thought | Environment | The Observer


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> .............. I was wrong! Clearly, it is the exact opposite! Me bad!


untill i'm not eating eggs, diary, wearing leather shoes, eating chocolate & changed my car seats
i won't be holding the saint title


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> I could also whinge that the meat eaters are coming across superior, and pick out certain members. But all my posts are talking generally, not picking at any one member in particular. People are choosing to take it personally.


actually if you look back you have quoted posts, picked on what that person has said and told them why you are right and they are wrong...therefore you HAVE picked on people just the same as people have quoted you but the funny thing is, i actually don`t see anyone else on this thread - veggie or meat eater - claiming to be better morally than the other except from you  i know i`m no better than the next person, guess what?? no one is, you`re a veggie and that`s what you believe in - that`s good for you, i bet i`ll be accused of trying to be superior too but i don`t really care anymore as i think the evidence speaks for itself!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> As has been said before on this thread one lifestyle is almost cruelty free and one inflicts pain and suffering onto animals. So yes, one is MORALLY better than the other, its got nothing to do with manners, its just a fact!


Wasn't Hitler a veggie  Not sure where he sits on the "Moral High ground" front 

((hopefully that will be taken as the joke it is intended to be )


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> Ted Bundy was the perfect gentleman, who had wonderful manners and paid respect. But, he had NO morals and killed many women. Morals are far more important than manners, anyday!


Ted Bundy.----Women----------Vegetarians I fail to see the link..


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Why are veggies accused of being holier-than thou? Its a fact our life style causes less suffering/killing of animals. So therefore we veggies/vegans do walk the moral higher ground here in regards to animal cruelty and welfare, thats a fact, not me being holier-than thou.


I was never accused of being or thinking i 'was holier than thou' while I was vegetarian & I doubt I will be now that I am again, well certainly not by people who matter to me.

Nor will I be 'claiming' any moral high ground just because I don't eat meat.

I'm neither saint or legend, even in my own mind.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Ted Bundy.----Women----------Vegetarians I fail to see the link..


i`m assuming it`s similar to the comparison made earlier by the op to how men used to rape their wives years ago and that being socially acceptable


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Ted Bundy.----Women----------Vegetarians I fail to see the link..


 Its called DEEP thought!

A member said manners are everthing, I think MORALS are more important. Manners are words, morals are actions. Words don't physicaly hurt, moral actions do!


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Right. This is not an attack on anyone, I just wanted to point out my view on the whole vegetarian owning carnivorous pet thingy. Open to flaws being pointed out.

If the reason you are vegetarian is due to the cruel conditions during the animal's life/death, or just generally the fact that animals are killed for consumption. Then surely (unless your animal is a rescue), the fact you paid for that animal has only encouraged others to be bred, they're all being fed meat in one way or another, and all contributing to the meat industry. Is that not hypocritical? This only applies to veggies who are veggies because they don't like the way the animals are treated and want to make a difference.

I'm really having trouble wording this in the way I want  My brain is fried!

I do not mean that to be insulting in any way. Just my view on it and I don't see how it's irrelevant, because if you wanted to make a difference that much then you wouldn't contribute at all.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Ok so lets get back on track here... 

I ve already stated.. if you want to be a veggie that your choice.. I didn't eat meat till I was in my 20's unless forced to do so.. (when I was a child) But I wouldn't ram it down any ones necks.. I respect each persons wishes.. 

So less of the nit picking or say nanite to the thread.. Cause seriously ther eis no need what so ever..


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Leah84 said:


> i`m assuming it`s similar to the comparison made earlier by the op to how men used to rape their wives years ago and that being socially acceptable


Wrong! Totally different point I was making!  Stop trying to ruin my thread!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Roobster2010 said:


> I was never accused of being or thinking i 'was holier than thou' while I was vegetarian & I doubt I will be now that I am again, well certainly not by people who matter to me.
> 
> Nor will I be 'claiming' any moral high ground just because I don't eat meat.
> 
> *I'm neither saint or legend*, even in my own mind.


But as a dog owner you have paws at the door who will think you are :thumbup:
I know ours do, I'm so revered they even feel a pressing need to watch me while I'm in the bath


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Shrap said:


> Right. This is not an attack on anyone, I just wanted to point out my view on the whole vegetarian owning carnivorous pet thingy. Open to flaws being pointed out.
> 
> If the reason you are vegetarian is due to the cruel conditions during the animal's life/death, or just generally the fact that animals are killed for consumption. Then surely (unless your animal is a rescue), the fact you paid for that animal has only encouraged others to be bred, they're all being fed meat in one way or another, and all contributing to the meat industry. Is that not hypocritical? This only applies to veggies who are veggies because they don't like the way the animals are treated and want to make a difference.
> 
> ...


Ii was just thinking about something similar.. You don't eat meat cause of how they treat the animals.. But you let your cats and dogs eat meat out of cans etc.. and these animals are shipped all over the place in the worst conditions..


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> Wrong! Totally different point I was making!  Stop trying to ruin my thread!


i think you done that all by yourself when you started with the god complex and 'i`m better than you' attitude


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Manners are far more than just words, being polite and respectful is a way of life.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Shrap said:


> Right. This is not an attack on anyone, I just wanted to point out my view on the whole vegetarian owning carnivorous pet thingy. Open to flaws being pointed out.
> 
> If the reason you are vegetarian is due to the cruel conditions during the animal's life/death, or just generally the fact that animals are killed for consumption. Then surely (unless your animal is a rescue), the fact you paid for that animal has only encouraged others to be bred, they're all being fed meat in one way or another, and all contributing to the meat industry. Is that not hypocritical? This only applies to veggies who are veggies because they don't like the way the animals are treated and want to make a difference.
> 
> ...


My cats are rescues!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Leah84 said:


> i think you done that all by yourself when you started with the god complex!!!!


I have made ZERO personal comments to you, you have said MANY insulting things to me, see above and many more (which I ignored).

Now back on track, as the mods said!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I think this was missed....



momentofmadness said:


> *I was just thinking about something similar.. You don't eat meat cause of how they treat the animals.. But you let your cats and dogs eat meat out of cans etc.. and these animals are shipped all over the place in the worst conditions..*


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

SDavies said:


> untill i'm not eating eggs, diary, wearing leather shoes, eating chocolate & changed my car seats
> i won't be holding the saint title


True & I am totally embarassed thinking back on my air of superiority during my 'months' of veganism.

The thing is I could never be a saint & I really don't want to be one either. Sainthood sounds like a bit of a yawnfest & I do like to be* naughty* sometimes


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Ii was just thinking about something similar.. You don't eat meat cause of how they treat the animals.. But you let your cats and dogs eat meat out of cans etc.. and these animals are shipped all over the place in the worst conditions..


I was told I was an arse and ignorant for posing that question last night  but the OP feeds her cat dried food made from fish because a fish's life has less value than a fluffy or feathered one - although I was accussed of twisting what the OP posted to come to this conclusion


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

GreyHare said:


> I was told I was an arse and ignorant for posing that question last night  but the OP feeds her cat dried food made from fish because a *fish's life has less value than a fluffy or feathered one *- although I was accussed of twisting what the OP posted to come to this conclusion


How can that be.. I doubt anyone in the fish part of the forum would agree... :yikes:

I have fish as pets as well as furries..


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Ii was just thinking about something similar.. You don't eat meat cause of how they treat the animals.. But you let your cats and dogs eat meat out of cans etc.. and these animals are shipped all over the place in the worst conditions..


My cats don't eat canned food, I addressed this topic PAGES back and on Borderers thread. If you are going to judge me, please read all my posts. Since I joined this forum , I have felt nothing but hostility from you over various threads. Hardly a good example for a mod to set.  You will probably ban me for saying this, but really it had to be said. I have taken the moral higher (lol, see the irony here) ground and ignored your baiting and you seem to have taken an instant dislike to me, but enough is enough. Yes, you have the power to close my thread, but see how people have spoken to me


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Ted Bundy was the perfect gentleman, who had wonderful manners and paid respect. But, he had NO morals and killed many women. Morals are far more important than manners, anyday!


Ted Bundy??? Really??? On a thread about vegetarianism!!!!

Come on now


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> I have made ZERO personal comments to you, you have said MANY insulting things to me, see above and many more (which I ignored).
> 
> Now back on track, as the mods said!


again?? i think if you look back you`ll find you quoted a few of my posts and stated how you were morally better than someone who ate meat quite a few times. i haven`t actually said anything insulting towards you - YOU said several times throughout this threat that you were morally better and all i done was point that out.

i don`t think this was ever on track, i haven`t seen anyone say anything nasty about people who are veggies but yet i`ve seen you put down people constantly throughout who eat meat


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> How can that be.. I doubt anyone in the fish part of the forum would agree... :yikes:
> 
> I have fish as pets as well as furries..


Yeah, people have pet rabbits, but had to put up with First Kill thread last night!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> My cats don't eat canned food, I addressed this topic PAGES back and on Borderers thread. If you are going to judge me, please read all my posts. Since I joined this forum , I have felt nothing but hostility from you over various threads. Hardly a good example for a mod to set.  You will probably ban me for saying this, but really it had to be said. I have taken the moral higher ground and ignored your baiting and you seem to have taken an instant dislike to me, but enough is enough. Yes, you have the power to close my thread, but see how people have spoken to me


Extremely confused here.. seen as I originally popped that quote in after another person posted.. Try going back to read..  You will then see that that question is aimed at *all.*. Seen as there is more than yourself on this thread who is a vegetarian.. Answering questions.. I am quite interested to know thoughts.

Now I see from Greyhares post you have answered him.. But I don't see anyone answering..


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Heres my doglets enjoying a 'meaty' meal, I guess my dogs arent vegetarian


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Yeah, people have pet rabbits, but had to put up with First Kill thread last night!


Most posters who are of a shall we say sensitive nature know that Bordy shoots and that his posts may contain references to hunting etc so they don't click on them, simple as really.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Heres my doglets enjoying a 'meaty' meal, I guess my dogs arent vegetarian


Lol, is this not considered flaming, and lacking respect? Is that you not ramming meat in my face?

Anyhow, I am stepping off this thread for a while. I am beginning to feel out numbered and hounded. Someone just said this to me

"lol! it amazes me that people can sleep in their beds at night knowing that they have basically condoned animal suffering. To be honest I am surprised there aren't more vegetarians on a pet forum - which I think was partly the point you were making originally".

Says it all. My LAST word on the matter.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

The title of this thread bugs me a bit really. Just because its a pet forum doesn't mean its on par with the likes of PETA covering all aspects of animal protection/welfare etc its just somewhere people with pets come and have a chat if and when they feel like it.

Oooh and lovely photo Ceearott! My dog loves a bit of salmon, here he is waiting for his lunch today  Lots of vegetarians don't count fish as meat, but I like to think a fish is entitled to be enjoyed by my dog just like a chicken, sheep, pig or cow :thumbup:

Nom nom nom


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

GreyHare said:


> Most posters who are of a shall we say sensitive nature know that Bordy shoots and that his posts may contain references to hunting etc so they don't click on them, simple as really.


I want pet rabbits. But if I could I'd hunt my own food rather than contribute to the mass slaughter....


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> The title of this thread bugs me a bit really. Just because its a pet forum doesn't mean its on par with the likes of PETA covering all aspects of animal protection/welfare etc its just somewhere people with pets come and have a chat if and when they feel like it.
> 
> Oooh and lovely photo Ceearott! My dog loves a bit of salmon, here he is waiting for his lunch today  Lots of vegetarians don't count fish as meat, but I like to think a fish is entitled to be enjoyed by my dog just like a chicken, sheep, pig or cow :thumbup:
> 
> Nom nom nom


Have to say love the way the fish head is presented to Rupert - in his posh dog bowl! lol Bet it don't stay in there for long.

Flavourflav please dont think you are morally superior, how ridiculous. The difference between you and meat eaters are your beliefs.:smilewinkgrin:


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Shrap said:


> I want pet rabbits. But if I could I'd hunt my own food rather than contribute to the mass slaughter....


Totally agree - if i had the guts to hunt my own food I would. Must admit been thinking recently of raising my own chickens - at least would know how they are treated and looked after etc etc!!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Have to say love the way the fish head is presented to Rupert - in his posh dog bowl! lol Bet it don't stay in there for long.
> 
> Flavourflav please dont think you are morally superior, how ridiculous. The difference between you and meat eaters are your beliefs.:smilewinkgrin:


Haha I know, it was gone rather quickly and he was off down the garden for a chomp :yesnod:

And I agree with the latter bit of your post too.


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> But as a dog owner you have paws at the door who will think you are :thumbup:
> I know ours do, I'm so revered they even feel a pressing need to watch me while I'm in the bath


Yeah whats that watching you in the bath thing about????

My daughters American Bulldog actually ended up in the bl00dy bath with me once. My fault though as I was playing & teasing her with her rubber chicken while I was in said bath. Let me tell you, there really was no room for the 3 of us.

I just gave the chicken back to her, retrieved what was left of my dignity & got out. lolol


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

I just cant see waht the fuss is about, even if you are veggie, you have to respect that the animals you have as pets deserve to eat the diet that is most natural for them. I would never consider feeding my dogs anything other than meat and bones, even if I was a veggie.

3 week old pups enjoying their first chicken wings -


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

My cats sit and dab at my toes in the bath, thankfully neither have joined me in the actual tub as I don't think I would have much skin left


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

gorgeous said:


> Have to say love the way the fish head is presented to Rupert - in his posh dog bowl! lol Bet it don't stay in there for long.
> 
> Flavourflav please dont think you are morally superior, how ridiculous. The difference between you and meat eaters are your beliefs.:smilewinkgrin:


Happy doggy with his gross food  My BC has that bowl (totally irrelevant, I know).


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

We are a bit hard up this week! Dunno how we are going to feed the dogs woman aroundthe corner is offering her lovely staffie free to good home - if I went and got her do you butcher a dog the same as you do a pig?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

GreyHare said:


> My cats sit and dab at my toes in the bath, thankfully neither have joined me in the actual tub as I don't think I would have much skin left


yep ours have been known to have a stare down at me in the bath, much less reverential than the dogs though, more a disdainful 'why are you sitting in the evil wet wobbly stuff you strange furless thing that feeds me?'


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> Someone just said this to me
> 
> "lol! it amazes me that people can sleep in their beds at night knowing that they have basically condoned animal suffering. To be honest I am surprised there aren't more vegetarians on a pet forum - which I think was partly the point you were making originally".


Ok my views on man.. helping to make animals suffer...

Cars... create fumes.. Not good..

Houses.. new buildings.. we are destroying there natural habitat.. Taking away a place to live.. grass to graze..

Cleaning products make up perfumes.. New drugs.. all tested on animals.. Ive just popped in the bathroom.. and checked my dettol wipes.. No where on that packaging does it state this product is not tested on animals.. But hey even if it did.. what about the packaging its made of plastic.. Plastic breaks down and releases chemicals polluting the place.. ...

Paper we damage and kill off many trees.. removing homes for the animals that live in them.. Money is made of paper..

I could go on.. But I bet we are all in contact with many of these.. and only and i mean only would we be superior if we stopped destroying and polluting the planet.. But guess what.. it just aint gonna happen in this life time..

Im not dissing the veggies.. Is what I am saying is regardless of what we eat.. We are all the same.. we all live life..


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Ceearott said:


> I just cant see waht the fuss is about, even if you are veggie, you have to respect that the animals you have as pets deserve to eat the diet that is most natural for them. I would never consider feeding my dogs anything other than meat and bones, even if I was a veggie.


Exatly what I was trying to say all them pages back...Your own morals have to be put behind you, where your own animals welfare is concerned!

(and just because I wanted to join in!) :lol:


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> yep ours have been known to have a stare down at me in the bath, much less reverential than the dogs though, more a disdainful 'why are you sitting in the evil wet wobbly stuff you strange furless thing that feeds me?'


My 10 year old tabby has been kidding me with that disdainful look all her life, but her secret is out....I went away last weekend and my sister told me that she slept both nights in my bag :001_wub: The scorn has been diluted


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Exatly what I was trying to say all them pages back...Your own morals have to be put behind you, where your own animals welfare is concerned!
> 
> (and just because I wanted to join in!) :lol:


That has to be the cutest dog ever :001_tt1:


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> We are a bit hard up this week! Dunno how we are going to feed the dogs woman aroundthe corner is offering her lovely staffie free to good home - if I went and got her do you butcher a dog the same as you do a pig?


Why not? The staffie would be used for food, and killed humanly.  Why not? I am sure most of the members on this thread wouldn't see a problem with that, as the dog is being used for FOOD. No different than a pig in my eyes!

right deffo keeping off, promise this is my last post


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

GreyHare said:


> That has to be the cutest dog ever :001_tt1:


aaaw thanks alot. Hes a smashing lad, was very pleased with this littler the pictured pup went to an agility home, but his brothers doing some great stuff in the ring!


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Why not? The staffie would be used for food, and killed humanly.  Why not? I am sure most of the members on this thread wouldn't see a problem with that, as the dog is being used for FOOD. No different than a pig in my eyes!
> 
> right deffo keeping off, promise this is my last post


Before you go did you read the Guardian link and what were your thoughts on it ?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> Why not? The staffie would be used for food, and killed humanly.  Why not? I am sure most of the members on this thread wouldn't see a problem with that, as the dog is being used for FOOD. No different than a pig in my eyes!
> 
> right deffo keeping off, promise this is my last post


Is what people have is this funny thing called a conscience and a mind that we can split into many thoughts and ideas..

We have our pets..

and see cows in a field..

we see meat in the market/butchers...

Quite often we don't put the happy cow in the field in our minds as the one hanging up waiting to be butchered..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Devil-Dogz said:


> aaaw thanks alot. Hes a smashing lad, was very pleased with this littler the pictured pup went to an agility home, but his brothers doing some great stuff in the ring!


Greyhare.. I just have to clear something up with you.. the pupster.. is on its way to my house via the eagle i just sent..


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Greyhare.. I just have to clear something up with you.. the pupster.. is on its way to my house via the eagle i just sent..


hehe he is 16 months old now


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Devil-Dogz said:


> hehe he is 16 months old now


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! doesn't time fly.. is he the pupster I luuuuuuuuuuuuuurve?


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Is what people have is this funny thing called a conscience and a mind that we can split into many thoughts and ideas..
> 
> We have our pets..
> 
> ...


This is how I learnt all about where meat comes from when my favourite cow (I lived on a farm and didn't just randomly have cows in my back garden ) Blubell got sent off and the following day whilst eating a Steak and Kidney Pudding I asked where Bluebell had been sent off too and my brother told me that I was eating her  and when I obviously looked a little shocked I was reassured by my Mum that Bluebell wasn't in my pud but would be more likely to be in Crumpet (the pet dog) Chum  Still didn't stop me eating meat, but I did miss Bluebell.


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Yeah, people have pet rabbits, but had to put up with First Kill thread last night!


Look pet, no-one is getting at you for being a vegetarian, not that I can see anyway. But also no-one has to put up with any thread, its just a case of, if you think you're not going to like it, don't read it.

I've found that out for myself, however if you think a thread/post breaks forum rules then you should report it to the mods (of which there are many) or admin.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

GreyHare said:


> This is how I learnt all about where meat comes from when my favourite cow (I lived on a farm and didn't just randomly have cows in my back garden ) Blubell got sent off and the following day whilst eating a Steak and Kidney Pudding I asked where Bluebell had been sent off too and my brother told me that I was eating her  and when I obviously looked a little shocked I was reassured by my Mum that Bluebell wasn't in my pud but would be more likely to be in Crumpet (the pet dog) Chum  Still didn't stop me eating meat, but I did miss Bluebell.


Our farm didn't do their own meat.. all got sent off to Market.. But I did used to live down the road from the beestons (abattoir).. Farm I spent my days on was my Grandparents..

My BIL did dairy farming and never mind the eating of meat.. its bloody awfull what they do too the dairy cows.. And I don't mean abusing them.. I mean them taking their calves away after two days of the calves getting the milk going.. All so you can have your milk.. (I don't drink milk,tea coffe.. eat cheese.. etc) but not cause of this.. cause I dont like the look and idea of it.. yuk!


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> The title of this thread bugs me a bit really. Just because its a pet forum doesn't mean its on par with the likes of PETA covering all aspects of animal protection/welfare etc its just somewhere people with pets come and have a chat if and when they feel like it.
> 
> Oooh and lovely photo Ceearott! My dog loves a bit of salmon, here he is waiting for his lunch today  Lots of vegetarians don't count fish as meat, but I like to think a fish is entitled to be enjoyed by my dog just like a chicken, sheep, pig or cow :thumbup:
> 
> Nom nom nom


Wow!!! So he's just laying there, waiting for it???? That is one beautiful well behaved boy you have there GS.

My Millie can delay the gratification of her dins, but my Ruby is a right gannet & would have had the delishy-fishy halfway down her neck before I could get my camera switched on.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Your doing this on purpose to me..... Cause you all know I have said the fish head is knocking me sick.. I won't be able to eat my tea tonight.. stop posting the bluming thing! Please.. :yikes:


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Our farm didn't do their own meat.. all got sent off to Market.. But I did used to live down the road from the beestons (abattoir).. Farm I spent my days on was my Grandparents..
> 
> My BIL did dairy farming and never mind the eating of meat.. its bloody awfull what they do too the dairy cows.. And I don't mean abusing them.. I mean them taking their calves away after two days of the calves getting the milk going.. All so you can have your milk.. (I don't drink milk,tea coffe.. eat cheese.. etc) but not cause of this.. cause I dont like the look and idea of it.. yuk!


Snap with the Milk, I was brought on many Dairy Farms and yup not the best but a damn sight better than they are now with the huge yields they expect from the cows, my Dad left when the farm he worked on went to three times a day milking as he felt that was a step too far, but my Dad had huge respect for all his animals, and he put his foot down when they started breeding and bringing in cows whose udders were ridiculous, they were so huge the cows were slicing them open as they walked as the hooves caught on them, but selfishly I used to love feeding the calves and whisking up the formula in the buckets and getting them to suck your fingers, I don't mind a bit of cheese though


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Your doing this on purpose to me..... Cause you all know I have said the fish head is knocking me sick.. I won't be able to eat my tea tonight.. stop posting the bluming thing! Please.. :yikes:


*passes the eye bleach*



Roobster2010 said:


> Wow!!! So he's just laying there, waiting for it???? That is one beautiful well behaved boy you have there GS.
> 
> My Millie can delay the gratification of her dins, but my Ruby is a right gannet & would have had the delishy-fishy halfway down her neck before I could get my camera switched on.


Oh it was a very unwilling down  You can see it in his face..!

Both dogs know to wait until they're told to eat their food, means I can run clear if raw bits get flung at me whilst he runs off the garden :lol:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

GreyHare said:


> Snap with the Milk, I was brought on many Dairy Farms and yup not the best but a damn sight better than they are now with the huge yields they expect from the cows, my Dad left when the farm he worked on went to three times a day milking as he felt that was a step too far, but my Dad had huge respect for all his animals, and he put his foot down when they started breeding and bringing in cows whose udders were ridiculous, they were so huge the cows were slicing them open as they walked as the hooves caught on them, but selfishly I used to love feeding the calves and whisking up the formula in the buckets and getting them to suck your fingers, I don't mind a bit of cheese though


Some farmers virtually force feed them calves and there gagging poor things don't know whats going on.. and re the udders.. One of my BIL caught its udder.. Vet was called and she was PTS well You know what I mean.. But anyways.. they wont pay for having em stitched up when they can weigh em in..

On one farm I used to keep the horses we had a cow called Pamela.. yesyou guess Pamela Anderson.. anyway she was born in the era of the foot and mouth so when they decided it was costing too much to keep her.. as they didn't use her.. she was sent to be incinerated.. Poor Pam..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> *passes the eye bleach*


Im gonna vanish it in a min..  just give me an excuse to do it..


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> hehe he is 16 months old now


He is gorgeous, I could just eat him......... but I won't

By the way to anyone who may take offence, sorry......that was just a joke

not the 'he's gorgeous' part


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Do not wish to offend anyone but this thread has made me fancy a juicy steak with all of the trimmings.

Mum is babysitting and hubby and I are going to our local for a nice meal with wine! 

Cheers n beers!hmy:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

gorgeous said:


> Do not wish to offend anyone but this thread has made me fancy a juicy steak with all of the trimmings.
> 
> Mum is babysitting and hubby and I are going to our local for a nice meal with wine!
> 
> Cheers n beers!hmy:


I dont ea steak..The smell knocks me sick.. same as Lamb.. It smells not nice.. But that is my thought only..


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> I dont ea steak..The smell knocks me sick.. same as Lamb.. It smells not nice.. But that is my thought only..


Mmmm are you more of a liver and chianti kind of girl? yum yum yum


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

gorgeous said:


> Mmmm are you more of a liver and chianti kind of girl? yum yum yum


Erm definitely not.. Pork and chicken.. no fish either.. Minging smelly stuff

But I won't lie.. i do eat spag bol with mince beef in the bol.. And only since I have lived on my own have I had to fry it up.. But seriously Im gagging whilst doing it..  Im a bit sad I know..


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Borderers thread is there for members to mention what meats dishes they fancy for their tea!


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Some farmers virtually force feed them calves and there gagging poor things don't know whats going on.. and re the udders.. One of my BIL caught its udder.. Vet was called and she was PTS well You know what I mean.. But anyways.. they wont pay for having em stitched up when they can weigh em in..
> 
> On one farm I used to keep the horses we had a cow called Pamela.. yesyou guess Pamela Anderson.. anyway she was born in the era of the foot and mouth so when they decided it was costing too much to keep her.. as they didn't use her.. she was sent to be incinerated.. Poor Pam..


Oh no poor Pammy, Luckily my Dad only tended to work on small farms so it was all all well as it could be but the calves were always treated with respect. The only time I have ever seen my Dad square up to some one was when a farm hand really laid into one of the old girls because she wasn't walking across the yard quick enough for him so he slammed the gate into and hit her, my Dad blew his top and went for him and he left soon after, but I was very proud of Dad that day. He did treat all his cows like extended members of the family though.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> Borderers thread is there for members to mention what meats dishes they fancy for their tea!


Sorry thought you had left


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> Borderers thread is there for members to mention what meats dishes they fancy for their tea!


Sorry...I thought you had vacated.. and I got carried away...


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> Sorry thought you had left





momentofmadness said:


> Sorry...I thought you had vacated.. and I got carried away...


I came back with just a mod hat on, not an opinion! On topic please! And mind your MANNERS lmao..... Practice what you preach


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Sorry...I thought you had vacated.. and I got carried away...


and you should know better being a Mod an all


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Can't wait for our butcher friend to come around again...really fancy some more of the fillet steak he brings...


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

gorgeous said:


> Mmmm are you more of a liver and chianti kind of girl? yum yum yum


See now that sounds good to me.....a friend of ours is a sheep and beef (mainly sheep)farmer. We always buy meat from people we know, so I know that he will put himself out of pocket where his animals' health is concerned. I've bottle fed what's ended up on our table sometimes, and it tastes all the better for knowing what a good life it's had and that the slaughter is cruelty free.....he sells us the whole half at a time, so I've got great at making pates, steak and kidney pies etc. Respect is many things, but part of it is no wastage!


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

is that a whole fillet hmmm yum


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> I came back with just a mod hat on, not an opinion! On topic please! And mind your MANNERS lmao..... Practice what you preach


We all get carried away... We are only human.. .. :lol:


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## manic rose (Mar 12, 2011)

is there really any need to keep posting pics of raw meat? just going to wind people up. whatever happened to the mature discussion this was up until about 10 pages ago?


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

manic rose said:


> is there really any need to keep posting pics of raw meat? just going to wind people up. whatever happened to the mature discussion this was up until about 10 pages ago?


Exactly, they are just showing themselves up. Give them enough rope, as the saying says....I am taking the moral higher ground again (joke) and just ignoring them. Anyone with half a brain cell see what is going on


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Exactly.. So as of now no more pictures please..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I think now we are all agreeable.. we are all equal no matter what we eat.. we all do something to cancel out our goodness.. there are no saints on Petforums.. Or in my actual life I think..


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

GreyHare said:


> is that a whole fillet hmmm yum


Yup, last one i had was priced up at almost £70, gave him £25 for it. He owns his own local shop...will defo be going to him for a nice hamper of different stuff at xmas i think...


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> I think now we are all agreeable.. we are all equal no matter what we eat.. we all do something to cancel out our goodness.. there are no saints on Petforums.. Or in my actual life I think..


I agree to disagree!


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

manic rose said:


> is there really any need to keep posting pics of raw meat? just going to wind people up. whatever happened to the mature discussion this was up until about 10 pages ago?


I posted mine and didnt mean to cause offence, merely just pointing out that no matter the owners views, their pets should ALWAYS come first.
anyhow whats the issue, all the veggies on this thread have said they accept people eat meat and dont look down on them..so which is it


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

manic rose said:


> is there really any need to keep posting pics of raw meat? just going to wind people up. whatever happened to the mature discussion this was up until about 10 pages ago?


Well tbh i havnt posted since early on but kept coming on hoping it would lighten up a bit, i think this was how it had to end everyone is fed up with the same old same old now, everyone agree to disagree.

No one had slated the OP only defended the fact that everyone have a right to their own opinions.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> I posted mine and didnt mean to cause offence, merely just pointing out that no matter the owners views, their pets should ALWAYS come first.
> anyhow whats the issue, all the veggies on this thread have said they accept people eat meat and dont look down on them


All but one :smilewinkgrin:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Anyway. It bugs me the way fish are seen differently to cows/sheep/pigs, anyone know why that is


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> Well tbh i havnt posted since early on but kept coming on hoping it would lighten up a bit, i think this was how it had to end everyone is fed up with the same old same old now, everyone agree to disagree.
> 
> No one had slated the OP only defended the fact that everyone have a right to their own opinions.


I will agree to disagree with your post! hmy:


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> Sure
> 
> Anyway. It bugs me the way fish are seen differently to cows/sheep/pigs, anyone know why that is


because the are not fluffy or cute, I would rather forgo fish than meat because if the seas die then so will we.


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## manic rose (Mar 12, 2011)

Devil-Dogz said:


> anyhow whats the issue, all the veggies on this thread have said they accept people eat meat and dont look down on them..so which is it


some people seem to be doing it purely to annoy certain other people, a shame when for so long this had been a sensible debate.  there's no real need to do it - yes, we know that other people and their pets eat meat and we even know what it looks like, we dont need the pics 

shall I post some veggie burgers to balance things out? :lol:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> I will agree to disagree with your post! hmy:


Good thats the only way with some threads.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> Anyway. It bugs me the way fish are seen differently to cows/sheep/pigs, anyone know why that is


I didn't say that fish cruelty is okay, you clearly haven't read all my posts on this or Borderer's thread. I am clearly out numbered on this forum, so I will always end up coming off worse in debates like this. Friends will always stick up for friends, not fair but forum life!

Please read all the thread, I am sick of having to answer the same questions over and over again


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

manic rose said:


> some people seem to be doing it purely to annoy certain other people, a shame when for so long this had been a sensible debate.  there's no real need to do it - yes, we know that other people and their pets eat meat and we even know what it looks like, we dont need the pics
> 
> shall I post some veggie burgers to balance things out? :lol:


I find quorn a bit dry myself.. But don't mind it..  and I used to by vegetable burgers.. made out of veg.. until they added cheese.. Why add blumin cheese..


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> Well tbh i havnt posted since early on but kept coming on hoping it would lighten up a bit, i think this was how it had to end everyone is fed up with the same old same old now, everyone agree to disagree.
> 
> *No one had slated the OP only defended the fact that everyone have a right to their own opinions.*


Blimey. Me and you agreed. Do we get a prize?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

manic rose said:


> some people seem to be doing it purely to annoy certain other people, a shame when for so long this had been a sensible debate.  there's no real need to do it - yes, we know that other people and their pets eat meat and we even know what it looks like, we dont need the pics
> 
> shall I post some veggie burgers to balance things out? :lol:


Flipping heck cant do much on this forum with out offending folk.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Is it genuinely because fish aren't as cute or is there a proper reason? My Mum doesn't reckon people are proper veggies if they eat fish, I can see why she thinks it too...


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> I didn't say that fish cruelty is okay, you clearly haven't read all my posts on this or Borderer's thread. I am clearly out numbered on this forum, so I will always end up coming off worse in debates like this. Friends will always stick up for friends, not fair but forum life!
> 
> Please read all the thread, I am sick of having to answer the same questions over and over again


Its not about being out numbered .. Its knowing how strong every ones views are..

Each member here has a strong view about something or other..


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## manic rose (Mar 12, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> I find quorn a bit dry myself.. But don't mind it..  and I used to by vegetable burgers.. made out of veg.. until they added cheese.. Why add blumin cheese..


had spicy bean burgers for tea....yum yum  not a massive quorn fan myself either. linda mccartney products are far better or the Morrisons own brand veggie stuff.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> Is it genuinely because fish aren't as cute or is there a proper reason? My Mum doesn't reckon people are proper veggies if they eat fish, I can see why she thinks it too...


there are diff types.. I personally think most of the time its some just don't like some foods and choose to have a name for it..

Google is my friend.. 
There are a number of types of vegetarianism, which exclude or include various foods.
Ovo vegetarianism includes eggs but not dairy products.
Lacto vegetarianism includes dairy products but not eggs.
Ovo-lacto vegetarianism (or lacto-ovo vegetarianism) includes animal/dairy products such as eggs, milk, and honey.
Veganism excludes all animal flesh and animal products, including milk, honey, and eggs, and may also exclude any products tested on animals, or any clothing from animals.[21]
Raw veganism includes only fresh and uncooked fruit, nuts, seeds, and vegetables. Vegetables can only be cooked up to a certain temperature.[22]
Fruitarianism permits only fruit, nuts, seeds, and other plant matter that can be gathered without harming the plant.[23]
Buddhist vegetarianism (also known as su vegetarianism) excludes all animal products as well as vegetables in the allium family (which have the characteristic aroma of onion and garlic): onion, garlic, scallions, leeks, or shallots.
Jain vegetarianism includes dairy but excludes eggs and honey, as well as root vegetables.
Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Is it genuinely because fish aren't as cute or is there a proper reason? My Mum doesn't reckon people are proper veggies if they eat fish, I can see why she thinks it too...


I agree with her totally there!

But then I am also a hyprocite, I cant stand the fact that people eat dog, I couldnt ever..nor could I ever eat deer, rabbit, pheasant or duck. But I eat beef and chicken ect? I value all animals lives so why so can I eat some meat and not even imagine eating other? I dont eat fish, because I dont like it.


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> Is it genuinely because fish aren't as cute or is there a proper reason? My Mum doesn't reckon people are proper veggies if they eat fish, I can see why she thinks it too...


I don't EAT fish!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> I didn't say that fish cruelty is okay, you clearly haven't read all my posts on this or Borderer's thread. I am clearly out numbered on this forum, so I will always end up coming off worse in debates like this. Friends will always stick up for friends, not fair but forum life!
> 
> Please read all the thread, I am sick of having to answer the same questions over and over again


I'm not asking you a question I am opening up a discussion about why some people exclude fish in terms of being vegetarian. No I haven't read all of your posts because this thread is goodness knows how many pages long and quite frankly I have better things to do than read every single page of every single thread I reply to. I can tell you now I've not seen a single person on this thread who I chat to anywhere off the forum, so I have no idea what you are rabbiting on about with the 'friends stick up for each other' line. You're just lowering the tone of the thread now.

I genuinely don't know why people often assume all vegetarians still eat fish (like in restaurants, most I go in assume such), is it because of the way fish are killed or something about them which means they don't understand what happens to them?


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## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Is it genuinely because fish aren't as cute or is there a proper reason? My Mum doesn't reckon people are proper veggies if they eat fish, I can see why she thinks it too...


They aren't. My mum eats fish and she isn't a proper veggie even though she thinks she is. She is a meat reducer.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> Is it genuinely because fish aren't as cute or is there a proper reason? My Mum doesn't reckon people are proper veggies if they eat fish, I can see why she thinks it too...


I think most vegetarians would agree with that too. 
As to all these veggie burgers etc. - no thanks. My son's friend is vegetarian and I have always catered for his tastes but I have to say Quorn bacon looks like cardboard!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Is it genuinely because fish aren't as cute or is there a proper reason? My Mum doesn't reckon people are proper veggies if they eat fish, I can see why she thinks it too...


I think your mum is right, I think not just about the fish but lots of other animals are killed as a result of comercial fishing  All the poor buggers that get caught in nets ect... dolphins, turtles


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

My previous post lists the types of veges there are..


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> I have to say Quorn bacon looks like cardboard!


And why if they are veggie, why do they HAVE to make it look like meat in the first place?


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

jon bda said:


> And why if they are veggie, why do they HAVE to make it look like meat in the first place?


To encourage meat eaters to eat this, instead of innocent animals!


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> I think your mum is right, I think not just about the fish but lots of other animals are killed as a result of comercial fishing  All the poor buggers that get caught in nets ect... dolphins, turtles


Did you see the whole 'Fish Fight' thing that went on a while back hon?. Think it was Gordon Ramsey travelled out to where they were netting tuna iirc...the amount of species one of the guys owned up to killing was awful, and he was proudly wearing a Tecso t-shirt which made me laugh...


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> there are diff types.. I personally think most of the time its some just don't like some foods and choose to have a name for it..
> 
> Google is my friend..
> There are a number of types of vegetarianism, which exclude or include various foods.
> ...


So more they just fit into that into a category as opposed to it being a choice? My friend always joked she was a vegetarian that ate chicken because she didn't like any other meat 



Devil-Dogz said:


> I agree with her totally there!
> 
> But then I am also a hyprocite, I cant stand the fact that people eat dog, I couldnt ever..nor could I ever eat deer, rabbit, pheasant or duck. But I eat beef and chicken ect? I value all animals lives so why so can I eat some meat and not even imagine eating other? I dont eat fish, because I dont like it.


I couldn't eat dog but I probably could eat rabbit etc if I wanted to but I'm not really massively into meat. I like the odd bacon butty and a KFC but that's about as far as my enjoyment goes, don't like beef etc.

I remember being given rabbit in France when I was 9 and I refused to eat it, that didn't go down well 



Flavourflav said:


> I don't EAT fish!


I do. And chicken and a bit of pork 



kaz_f said:


> They aren't. My mum eats fish and she isn't a proper veggie even though she thinks she is. She is a meat reducer.


Any idea what your Mum's reasoning would be for eating fish?



lymorelynn said:


> I think most vegetarians would agree with that too.
> As to all these veggie burgers etc. - no thanks. My son's friend is vegetarian and I have always catered for his tastes but I have to say Quorn bacon looks like cardboard!


Bleurgh I have to say I don't much like quorn, I think tofu tastes a lot better though??


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

jon bda said:


> Did you see the whole 'Fish Fight' thing that went on a while back hon?. Think it was Gordon Ramsey travelled out to where they were netting tuna iirc...the amount of species one of the guys owned up to killing was awful, and he was proudly wearing a Tecso t-shirt which made me laugh...


I didnt see it but hear it was an interesting watch, will look it up on Youtube later. My Mum watched it and said it was heart breaking.


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> To encourage meat eaters to eat this, instead of innocent animals!


I'll stick to eating tasty animals thanks and not confuse the issue, meat looks like meat, veg looks like veg is good...god forbid i should end up with a Linda McCartney lasagne by mistake!!!


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

My tummy is curdling.. when you read things..

Vegetarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> To encourage meat eaters to eat this, instead of innocent animals!


Have to say I find mince unappealing in general so things like quorn mince have next to no appeal to me whatsoever. And I find quorn sausages just seem to kind of burn..?

Stuff like the spicy bean burgers/leek and potato sausages are more popular in our house than quorn alternatives. We've never really done tofu.


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> My friend always joked she was a vegetarian that ate chicken because she didn't like any other meat


Fast forward to about 1:50 or so...


[youtube_browser]dkyFozcL-xw[/youtube_browser]


----------



## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Any idea what your Mum's reasoning would be for eating fish?


Yeah - it's not cute! Her exact words - to me it is riduculous and I told her so and she got upset with me. Your principles shouldn't just apply to cute animals IMHO

Can I just say it's cool that this thread hasn't been closed (yet!)


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> I think your mum is right, I think not just about the fish but lots of other animals are killed as a result of comercial fishing  All the poor buggers that get caught in nets ect... dolphins, turtles


Yeah it is bad 

On Rupert's Fish4Dogs salmon mousse it says its environment friendly and that they sponsor the marine conservation society but doesn't really explain what that means.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

kaz_f said:


> Yeah - it's not cute! Her exact words - to me it is riduculous and I told her so and she got upset with me. Your principles shouldn't just apply to cute animals IMHO
> 
> Can I just say it's cool that this thread hasn't been closed (yet!)


Well at least she's honest 

Haha yes, yet


----------



## Vampyria (Dec 14, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Yeah it is bad
> 
> On Rupert's Fish4Dogs salmon mousse it says its environment friendly and that they sponsor the marine conservation society but doesn't really explain what that means.


Indeed! Same goes for "human" grade fish - plenty of cans of tuna and such have "dolphin friendly" or "responsibly fished" on the side, but I do wish the labels were a little clearer in what they mean, what the fishing methods are etc. Although, I suppose you could apply that to most labels nowadays


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> I think your mum is right, I think not just about the fish but lots of other animals are killed as a result of comercial fishing  All the poor buggers that get caught in nets ect... dolphins, turtles


Yet, you can justify the slaughter of farm animals, ClaireLouise....interesting.........


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Vampyria said:


> Indeed! Same goes for "human" grade fish - plenty of cans of tuna and such have "dolphin friendly" or "responsibly fished" on the side, but I do wish the labels were a little clearer in what they mean, what the fishing methods are etc. Although, I suppose you could apply that to most labels nowadays


Look for the ones that are pole and line caught...


----------



## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> I didn't say that fish cruelty is okay, you clearly haven't read all my posts on this or Borderer's thread. I am clearly out numbered on this forum, so I will always end up coming off worse in debates like this. Friends will always stick up for friends, not fair but forum life!
> 
> Please read all the thread, I am sick of having to answer the same questions over and over again


This isn't the playground FF & I'm not sticking up for anyone.

I'm honestly just posting what *I think for myself* personally. I think good on you for *choosing* to be vegetarian, I've gone back to it myself as from today & just made a bl00dy delicious mushroom rissotto for me & my mums dins but being so doesn't give you or me or anyone a moral high ground on this forum or in life.

Just my opinion of course.


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

[youtube_browser]DQR4-cl9ODc[/youtube_browser]


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> Yet, you can justify the slaughter of farm animals, ClaireLouise....interesting.........


ive never justified the slaughter of farm animals anywhere


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> .............. I was wrong! Clearly, it is the exact opposite! Me bad!


Not read the whole thread yet - but I will! Just wanted to say straight off that a person's character - whether good, bad, or indifferent - has nothing to do with whether or not they eat meat. People, on this forum as in real life, are judged upon the way they conduct themselves, not on what they put into their mouths.


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> ive never justified the slaughter of farm animals anywhere


You eat meat, you are therefore buying slaughtered animals.  Unless all the meat you buy, the animals died of natural causes?


----------



## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> Is it genuinely because fish aren't as cute or is there a proper reason? My Mum doesn't reckon people are proper veggies if they eat fish, I can see why she thinks it too...


Well your mum is right. Fish aren't a vegetable. I think people who are mainly vegetarian but eat fish are called semi-vegetarian, or pescatarian, prob spelt that wrong cause when I'm veggie, I'm hardcore


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

jon bda said:


> [youtube_browser]DQR4-cl9ODc[/youtube_browser]


thanks ................


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> You eat meat, you are therefore buying slaughtered animals.  Unless all the meat you buy, the animals died of natural causes?


Like your fish for your pets?


----------



## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

Vampyria said:


> Indeed! Same goes for "human" grade fish - plenty of cans of tuna and such have "dolphin friendly" or "responsibly fished" on the side, but I do wish the labels were a little clearer in what they mean, what the fishing methods are etc. Although, I suppose you could apply that to most labels nowadays


I'm all for clearer labelling - it's a minefield. I once complained to Tesco because they were selling bread labelled vegetarian which contained L-Cysteine Hydrochloride which mostly (not always) contains humain hair and animal feathers and sometimes animal hooves! yum yum yum :yikes: I never got a response. They have adopted their own green V symbol which is not the same as the vegetarian society's and nowhere near as thorough. I still have to check labels. And 'natural flavourings'... well I just steer clear...


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

kaz_f said:


> I'm all for clearer labelling - it's a minefield. I once complained to Tesco because they were selling bread labelled vegetarian which contained L-Cysteine Hydrochloride which mostly (not always) contains humain hair and animal feathers and sometimes animal hooves! yum yum yum :yikes: I never got a response. They have adopted their own green V symbol which is not the same as the vegetarian society's and nowhere near as thorough. I still have to check labels. And 'natural flavourings'... well I just steer clear...


Not quite the same but I WISH there was just a universal label for vegetarian food and it was stuck next to the calorie content or something if it was veggie. Sometimes the V is black or green, big or small, on the front on the back I read through the ingredients and am still not sure if stuff is veggie sometimes..!


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> I think your mum is right, I think not just about the fish but lots of other animals are killed as a result of comercial fishing  All the poor buggers that get caught in nets ect... dolphins, turtles


Exactly Claire, and the difference there being that these creatures are caught in the fishermens nets, killed can't be used for anything, and get thrown back.... Thus depleting the oceans.

Never see a Cow, Sheep, Pig shortage now will we?  And they are being slaughtered for purpose. IE to be eaten and not wasted.


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

jon bda said:


> Like your fish for your pets?


I am human, I don't need meat. Cats NEED a certain level of protein and taurine, or they die of heart disease. I answered this earlier in the thread.

Animals eat animals. Humans don't HAVE to eat animals.....


----------



## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

manic rose said:


> had spicy bean burgers for tea....yum yum  not a massive quorn fan myself either. linda mccartney products are far better or the Morrisons own brand veggie stuff.


Beanburgers....Yummy! Dalepak make great spicy beanburgers & cauliflower cheese grills.

Cauldron make the nicest vegetarian sausages. I got some today for my breakfast roll tomorrow, in fact I don't know if I'll wait till then, maybe have a supper roll later.


----------



## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Not quite the same but I WISH there was just a universal label for vegetarian food and it was stuck next to the calorie content or something if it was veggie. Sometimes the V is black or green, big or small, on the front on the back I read through the ingredients and am still not sure if stuff is veggie sometimes..!


Yeah and you'd be right to still check - each supermarket has adopted their own. The only one I trust is the vegetarian society one. I still read ingredients.  (I know - I need to get out more lol!)


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> I am human, I don't need meat. Cats NEED a certain level of protein and taurine, or they die of heart disease. I answered this earlier in the thread.
> 
> Animals eat animals. Humans don't HAVE to eat animals.....


Are humans omnivores?


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> You eat meat, you are therefore buying slaughtered animals.  Unless all the meat you buy, the animals died of natural causes?


but all the animals slaughtered for meat production get eaten by human or animal so although they have lost their life they have lost it for a meaningful purpose, not just to be chucked back into the sea after a needless and traumatic death.


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Roobster2010 said:


> Great point


Your missing the point my friend...


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

lymorelynn said:


> I think most vegetarians would agree with that too.
> As to all these veggie burgers etc. - no thanks. My son's friend is vegetarian and I have always catered for his tastes but I have to say Quorn bacon looks like cardboard!


I've only cooked it once & I burnt it, they looked like insoles



kaz_f said:


> I'm all for clearer labelling - it's a minefield. I once complained to Tesco because they were selling bread labelled vegetarian which contained L-Cysteine Hydrochloride which mostly (not always) contains humain hair and animal feathers and sometimes animal hooves! yum yum yum :yikes: I never got a response. They have adopted their own green V symbol which is not the same as the vegetarian society's and nowhere near as thorough. I still have to check labels. And 'natural flavourings'... well I just steer clear...


Like cochineal?
I agree labels should be much clearer, would make choosing my food so much easier, one thing I wish is that they made a vegetarain jelly that was like real jelly as I miss my home made sherry trifles- never been able to get the jelly right without actual jelly, a fruit flavoured vege-gel would be good



Roobster2010 said:


> Beanburgers....Yummy! Dalepak make great spicy beanburgers & cauliflower cheese grills.
> 
> Cauldron make the nicest vegetarian sausages. I got some today for my breakfast roll tomorrow, in fact I don't know if I'll wait till then, maybe have a supper roll later.


mmmmm Cauldron sausages & tofu:001_tt1:


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

jon bda said:


> Are humans omnivores?


They don't NEED to be


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Ide really struggle if for some reason i had to be veggie, bean burgers and that quorn stuff  yuk, what is a typical daily breakfast, dinner and tea.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> They don't NEED to be


But they are by nature...


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

GreyHare said:


> but all the animals slaughtered for meat production get eaten by human or animal so although they have lost their life they have lost it for a meaningful purpose, not just to be chucked back into the sea after a needless and traumatic death.


So its would be okay to be a cannibal? As long as there was no waste, and the kill was eaten?


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

jon bda said:


> But they are by nature...


Read earlier in the thread, this has already been discussed in depth!


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> this has already been discussed in depth!


So has you trying to impose your views on any and everyone in different threads...still goes around in circles doesn't it...


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> So its would be okay to be a cannibal? As long as there was no waste, and the kill was eaten?


Eehh you have lost me there  What has eating ourselves got to do with the needless waste and destruction that fishing causes.

Again did you read the Guardian article I posted for you and what are your thoughts on it ?


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> You eat meat, you are therefore buying slaughtered animals.  Unless all the meat you buy, the animals died of natural causes?


You dont know what I do and dont eat ive not voiced it on here



jon bda said:


> So has you trying to impose your views on any and everyone in different threads...still goes around in circles doesn't it...


your post is bob on the money Jon, totally agree


----------



## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> So its would be okay to be a cannibal? As long as there was no waste, and the kill was eaten?


No cannibalism is a whole different thing.


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Flavourflav said:


> I hear you also Red setter, and believe you make some good points re. respect to animals.
> 
> But, and its a big but. Humanity moves on, we evolve and opinions of right and wrongs change. Husbands used to be able to rape their wives without fear of prosecution from the law. We no longer think this is acceptable and it is unlawful now, thus thought processes change. I hope the day will come that veggies are larger in number than meat eaters, as thoughts of what is acceptable, changes down the coming decades.


I'm sorry FF although I didn't agree with you on some posts I've admired your conviction through out the thread until you posted this.
You have completely lost my respect and I will no longer be posting on this thread.
To compare meat eaters to rapist is abhorrent :cursing:


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Fleur said:


> To compare meat eaters to rapist is abhorrent :cursing:


But it seems eating meat is the far more serious sin...WTF???


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Fleur said:


> I'm sorry FF although I didn't agree with you on some posts I've admired your conviction through out the thread until you posted this.
> You have completely lost my respect and I will no longer be posting on this thread.
> To compare meat eaters to rapist is abhorrent :cursing:


Don't forget though FF is on the higher moral ground


----------



## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> They don't NEED to be


actually some people do need to, i was a veggie for 10 years and got extremely ill and had no choice other than to start eating meat again...if i hadn`t i would probably be unable to look after my daughter right now and that`s probably the least worrying consequence! i`m not a huge meat fan and i`d much rather have 5 bean chilli over beef but i do eat meat

i do agree with your post earlier, i don`t understand why people felt the need to post the pictures of meat


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Fleur said:


> I'm sorry FF although I didn't agree with you on some posts I've admired your conviction through out the thread until you posted this.
> You have completely lost my respect and I will no longer be posting on this thread.
> To compare meat eaters to rapist is abhorrent :cursing:


I had not seen this post, thanks for bringing it up, i agree with you, its shocking. It looks like someone who is losing an debate clutching at straws..... The OP agrued we shouldnt compare veggies and feeding pets meat yet sees fit to compare meat eaters and rapist lol utter madness now that is hypocritical


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

GreyHare said:


> Don't forget though FF is on the higher moral ground


I can get lonely up there after a while


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

jon bda said:


> So has you trying to impose your views on any and everyone in different threads...still goes around in circles doesn't it...


And you contribute positively all the time? Different threads?


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> we evolve and opinions of right and wrongs change. Husbands used to be able to rape their wives without fear of prosecution from the law


Please clear up for me, what the ****ing hell you are going on about?. Have you had a knock to the head or something???


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

jon bda said:


> Fast forward to about 1:50 or so...
> 
> 
> [youtube_browser]dkyFozcL-xw[/youtube_browser]


You just can't argue with Bill Bailey  Don't try


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

This looks delicious:001_tt1:
Lentils & garlic mushrooms


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> This looks delicious:001_tt1:
> Lentils & garlic mushrooms


that looks amazing!!!!!


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

And these beauties, Bengali-style crunchy potatoes:001_tt1:








ETA: Linky!


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> And you contribute positively all the time? Different threads?


Nope, i think i annoy people most of the time to be honest. But i do believe that on this thread you've asked all the meat eaters to bugger off to Bordies thread about the first kill...yet your in there as well preaching???


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Fleur said:


> I'm sorry FF although I didn't agree with you on some posts I've admired your conviction through out the thread until you posted this.
> You have completely lost my respect and I will no longer be posting on this thread.
> To compare meat eaters to rapist is abhorrent :cursing:


I didn't compare meat eaters to rapists. Read my post again. I said what we think is acceptable behaviour one century, is not considered acceptable in the next. ie. one day I am hoping meat eating will be seen as a crime. Please can people stop twisting my posts.  :cursing:

edit to add: I was talking about husbands being able to force wives to have sex and it was lawful in the past but not now. Where did I say meat eaters are rapists???


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> I can get lonely up there after a while


It does. TF I've got some company now :laugh:


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> that looks amazing!!!!!


I saw my sister produce something simar a few weeks back, She had too many beers after a curry. She has a mushroom on her shoulder her fella had to flick off..... it was great lol


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> And these beauties, Bengali-style crunchy potatoes:001_tt1:


If your in the kitchen, could i please have some Bombay Aloo???


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> edit to add: I was talking about husbands being able to force wives to have sex and it was lawful.


So what the hell has this got to do with this thread? Please explain?


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

jon bda said:


> Nope, i think i annoy people most of the time to be honest. But i do believe that on this thread you've asked all the meat eaters to bugger off to Bordies thread about the first kill...yet your in there as well preaching???


Lol, love your honesty. Its was when pics of raw meat, and people exchanging dinner ideas for meat, I said Borderes thread is discussing meat recipes, better to discuss it there. Like I stopped talking veggie on Borderers thread, and opened this one to talk veggie.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

jon bda said:


> If your in the kitchen, could i please have some Bombay Aloo???


oooh yum I love Bombay Aloo & also Aloo Gobi


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

SS, I love vegetarian cooking so much that one of my brothers is totally convinced I am veggie...I can never understand the veggies I know who don't actually cook with veg! Mmmm....mushrooms...squash...leeks :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Basically, I just like all food, don't I?


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Lol, love your honesty. Its when pics of raw meat, and people exchanging dinner ideas for meat, I said Borderes thread is discussing meat recipes.


Nope, Bordies thread is about shooting Rabbits...i'd go there if i wanted to know if i would get the best from a spring or a gas small rifle...


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> I didn't compare meat eaters to rapists. Read my post again. I said what we think is acceptable behaviour one century, is not considered acceptable in the next. ie. one day I am hoping meat eating will be seen as a crime. Please can people stop twisting my posts.  :cursing:
> 
> edit to add: I was talking about husbands being able to force wives to have sex and it was lawful in the past but not now. Where did I say meat eaters are rapists???


Stop being paranoid Fleur said stop comparing the two it's not on not that you said we're rapists.


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

jon bda said:


> So what the hell has this got to do with this thread? Please explain?


That peoples attitudes change, what is considered right at one time, is then considered not. Like you said man eats meat, well that attitude is changing (albeit slowly). You get my train of thought now?


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> I didn't compare meat eaters to rapists. Read my post again. I said what we think is acceptable behaviour one century, is not considered acceptable in the next. ie. one day I am hoping meat eating will be seen as a crime. Please can people stop twisting my posts.  :cursing:
> 
> edit to add: I was talking about husbands being able to force wives to have sex and it was lawful in the past but not now. Where did I say meat eaters are rapists???


It's amazing how several people have 'twisted' your posts yet every one elses seem to be clear hmmm any one see a pattern.

You are comparing two behaviours one that is acceptable to most people that being eating meat and that of husband raping wives once seen as acceptable but now no longer acceptable and that you hope in the future meat eating will be unacceptable, so yes you have compared the two.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> This looks delicious:001_tt1:
> Lentils & garlic mushrooms


EWWWW thats what i mean about not knowing what to eat that looks like. . . . .. . . well you know what ime thinking. i like mushrooms and i like garlic, lentils? well not so sure and veggie stuff always looks all mushy. and like what i was thinking earlier......... s***k


----------



## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

myshkin said:


> SS, I love vegetarian cooking so much that one of my brothers is totally convinced I am veggie...I can never understand the veggies I know who don't actually cook with veg! Mmmm....mushrooms...squash...leeks :thumbup::thumbup:


I agree, I don't really like the stuff that's made to look like meat. You can't beat fresh veggies as long as you are also getting plenty of nuts seed pulses and grains too - can't go far wrong with a diet like that


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

jon bda said:


> Nope, Bordies thread is about shooting Rabbits...i'd go there if i wanted to know if i would get the best from a spring or a gas small rifle...


Nope, they ended up chatting about all the different game and meats they like to eat!


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> You get my train of thought now?


Not in the slightest...given your ****ed up comparisons...


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> EWWWW thats what i mean about not knowing what to eat that looks like. . . . .. . . well you know what ime thinking. i like mushrooms and i like garlic, lentils? well not so sure and veggie stuff always looks all mushy. and like what i was thinking earlier......... s***k


You just hate that we agreed earlier, that's why you're saying you don't like it. Admit it, you think it looks deeee-licious!


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

Anyhow, I am off to watch telly. I am beginning to feel like I am a pig in a slaughter house being proded and poked at lol. I rest my case. You have all had your fun at my expense. Anyone who has any questions about my lifestyle will find the answers if you read ALL the thread, and perhaps part of the First Kill thread. 

Night!


----------



## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

myshkin said:


> SS, I love vegetarian cooking so much that one of my brothers is totally convinced I am veggie...I can never understand the veggies I know who don't actually cook with veg! Mmmm....mushrooms...squash...leeks :thumbup::thumbup:


do you know how hard it is to find leeks in wales?? seriously everytime i go to buy some there`s never any and today we went round asda, tesco and morrisons and none had them till we eventually found them in the spar


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Flavourflav said:


> Anyhow, I am off to watch telly. I am beginning to feel like I am a pig in a slaughter house being proded and poked at lol. I rest my case. You have all had your fun at my expense. Anyone who has any questions about my lifestyle will find the answers if you read ALL the read, and perhaps part of the First Kill thread.
> 
> Night!


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> EWWWW thats what i mean about not knowing what to eat that looks like. . . . .. . . well you know what ime thinking. i like mushrooms and i like garlic, lentils? well not so sure and veggie stuff always looks all mushy. and like what i was thinking earlier......... s***k


:lol::lol:
Ironically I have a sick phobia & should now be doubting the lentilly mushroomy goodness in that picture, but thankfully I'm not, I'm just drooling at the prospect of making it:drool:


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

You haven't answered me yet but then you are not going too are you 

I don't think you ever answered why a bunnies life was worth more than a fish's either but I think that's because you can't


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

myshkin said:


> You just hate that we agreed earlier, that's why you're saying you don't like it. Admit it, you think it looks deeee-licious!


I quite liked how we agreed earlier so there  I bet i could like it, its just the look.


----------



## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

jon bda said:


>


Not at all, its just not a fair fight when my words are being twisted and I am out numbered.

Apathy, humanities worst enemy!


----------



## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Stop being paranoid Fleur said stop comparing the two it's not on not that you said we're rapists.





GreyHare said:


> It's amazing how several people have 'twisted' your posts yet every one elses seem to be clear hmmm any one see a pattern.
> 
> You are comparing two behaviours one that is acceptable to most people that being eating meat and that of husband raping wives once seen as acceptable but now no longer acceptable and that you hope in the future meat eating will be unacceptable, so yes you have compared the two.


i pointed out the same comparison earlier and got a similar response...i was wrong  i shut up abotu the comparison to ted bundy though, that`s the one that really had me lost and i had been wrong with all my posts throughout the thread so went off to walk my dogs instead


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> Anyhow, I am off to watch telly. I am beginning to feel like I am a pig in a slaughter house being proded and poked at lol. I rest my case. You have all had your fun at my expense. Anyone who has any questions about my lifestyle will find the answers if you read ALL the thread, and perhaps part of the First Kill thread.
> 
> Night!


stop trying to be a victim again, your most definatly not, you have given as much as you have recieved........ the poor me is boring


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> do you know how hard it is to find leeks in wales?? seriously everytime i go to buy some there`s never any and today we went round asda, tesco and morrisons and none had them till we eventually found them in the spar


Truly shockingLeeks are to Wales what brother/sister marriages are to Norfolk


jon bda said:


>


Your drama llama appears to be line caught at least, an ethically sourced drama llama:thumbup1:


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Leah84 said:


> do you know how hard it is to find leeks in wales?? seriously everytime i go to buy some there`s never any and today we went round asda, tesco and morrisons and none had them till we eventually found them in the spar


Our local farm shop is never without them...with the bonus of chatting to the very North Wales accented hunky farmer while you're picking them....mmmm. Leeks, that's what I was saying mmm about, obviously! hmy:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> i pointed out the same comparison earlier and got a similar response...i was wrong  i shut up abotu the comparison to ted bundy though, that`s the one that really had me lost and i had been wrong with all my posts throughout the thread so went off to walk my dogs instead


TED BUNDY!!!!! omg it gets worse, totally laughable lol


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> Not at all, its just not a fair fight when my words are being twisted and I am out numbered.
> 
> Apathy, humanities worst enemy!


What are you going to watch on tv?


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

jon bda said:


>


I luvs the drama llama :001_tt1: I wonder what he tastes like


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> Truly shockingLeeks are to Wales what brother/sister marriages are to Norfolk
> 
> Your drama llama appears to be line caught at least, an ethically sourced drama llama:thumbup1:


dont bait people  hahahahaha


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> :lol::lol:
> Ironically I have a sick phobia & should now be doubting the lentilly mushroomy goodness in that picture, but thankfully I'm not, I'm just drooling at the prospect of making it:drool:


Good i never wanted to put you off.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Flavourflav,

Before you go to bed could you please tell me who you are? Who you really are?


Cos you are a new member but have never introduced yourself and have only ever posted on quite controversial/ heated topics???


could be wrong but my sensitive nose is smelling something fishy and maybe even something that a male bovine deposits??

No offence meant just curious..

Penny..xx


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> Truly shockingLeeks are to Wales what brother/sister marriages are to Norfolk


:lol:  i just choked on my drink then :lol:

i would go to the market but for some reason i keep thinking it`s sunday so was sure it was closed  not many hunky guys in them though


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> And these beauties, Bengali-style crunchy potatoes:001_tt1:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It does look lovely - now a portion of that with a big juicy steak would be just right!


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> stop trying to be a victim again, your most definatly not, you have given as much as you have recieved........ the poor me is boring


Its not poor me, its the poor animals. That very few on here seem to care about. The would rather try to point score against the newbie, than consider the cruelty animals suffer to end up on your plate. That is a crying shame.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> Its not poor me, its the poor animals. That very few on here seem to care about. The would rather try to point score against the newbie, than consider the cruelty animals suffer to end up on your plate. That is a crying shame.


Flavourflav you are as new to this forum as wood is to trees


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> Flavourflav,
> 
> Before you go to bed could you please tell me who you are? Who you really are?
> 
> ...


I have posted plenty in the cat section and classifies, people just see what they want to see!  Also, I posted lovely clips of youtube in general section but most off you ignored those threads. Thats a reflection on you lot, not ME!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Flavourflav,
> 
> Before you go to bed could you please tell me who you are? Who you really are?
> 
> ...


My thought since last night believe it or not, a few things/feelings feel familiar to me. Hope ime wrong.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Flavourflav said:


> Its not poor me, its the poor animals. That very few on here seem to care about. The would rather try to point score against the newbie, than consider the cruelty animals suffer to end up on your plate. That is a crying shame.


Lots on here care and its been prove time and time again, with recues and fun raising ect, ur comment is a total insult and most definatly NOT fact. Truth is ur no newbie, an old member who loves the poor me lark we get subject to it every few week YAWN


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## Roobster2010 (Jan 17, 2011)

jon bda said:


> Your missing the point my friend...


Yeah I know I did Jon.....oops!

Thats why I deleted my post immediately after I'd posted it. I noticed the photobucket link as I was pressing submit.

My bad, apologies amigo.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Flavourflav said:


> Its not poor me, its the poor animals. That very few on here seem to care about. The would rather try to point score against the newbie, than consider the cruelty animals suffer to end up on your plate. That is a crying shame.


That is about as genuine as Katie Price's rack....hmmm..TM of who could it possibly be?


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2011)

Tis also strange how you is all about the fluffy creatures yet name yourself after a wife beating, neighbour shooting former drug addict but nowt as queer as folks as the saying goes


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## Flavourflav (Jul 27, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> Flavourflav you are as new to this forum as wood is to trees


That was implied days ago (you are slow), and proved wrong (as far as I know).


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Okay I think that's enough now.
The topic of this thread has been thoroughly debated and it will be closed due to the fact that it is disintegrating into personal arguments.


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