# dog bit daughter! Help!



## kenla210 (Nov 12, 2008)

ok so I have posted on here a couple of times, but generally about things like food, and toilet training etc. I have a 7 month old working cocker spaniel daisy, who we have never had any problems with. But today, she bit my 6 year old daughter in the face resulting in half a day down the hospital and stitches on her lips. Good thing is that daughter is fine and scarring should be minimal. 
I know that it was provoked, i was in the shower and daisy went to her cage with a sock she had stolen, and Devon went in to get it, even tho daisy was growling, so I know daisy was backed in to a corner and scared, plus defending her space. I have always been really strict about her cage being her space and not to go near her. I know it is really Devon's fault. I just don't know what to do next!
Daisy is my first dog, I researched breed, feed her a good diet (jwb & nature menu), took her to puppy training classes, never raised a hand to her, was really strict about rules with kids, and she is a lovely dog who has never shown any sign of aggression before, she barks if people come to the door, but is always fine once she can see them, figures that is normal dog behaviour. am devastated by the whole thing.
Have spoken to behaviourist, and he says it can be fixed, but how do I ever trust her (or the kids) together again. And is there anything to the idea that once a dog has bitten once it will do it again - I just can't risk it!
But as I said, I know she was provoked and it just seems so unfair to get rid of her as I genuinely (& everyone else who knows her agrees) she is NOT a viscious dog by nature.
Just don't know what to do. Seems so unfair, especially as there are so many irresponsible owners & those that train their dogs to be mean...
Any advice would be really appreciated.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

Is your dog a solid colour?
http://www.cockerspaniel-info.org.uk/temperament.htm
Look at rage syndrome, could this be the problem


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

rona said:


> Is your dog a solid colour?


doesnt sound like rage syndrome,just a one off random thing im thinking.


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

A bit of a worry. i have young kids and they have got in the crate and bed of our dog(s). Never had an issue.

Might need a behaviourist to put some input.

Hope your daughter will be okay - must have been a fright for all concerned.


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## thelioncub (Feb 9, 2009)

That's a really tricky situation and I'm so sorry to hear about what's happened. I'm afraid I can't offer any advice as I'm more of a 'cat person', but I'm sure there are loads of people on here who will have some good suggestions. I would imagine both your daughter and your dog will be wary of each other anyway after this, so surely that in itself could be enough to prevent something happening again? Have you sat your daughter down and tried to help her understand the dog and how animals behave in general? Perhaps she needs to better appreciate that even family pets will take a swipe? Good luck and I hope your family recovers. You need to get yourself down to Bushy park


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi and welcome
Please I do not want to sound hard, from your post you come across as a really nice person and I really do not want to upset you in anyway - just want to tell you how I see it from the outside.

firsty, you say how can you ever trust the dog with your child again - I think the answer to this regarding any dog and any child is that you never do trust them 100%.

Again - I don't want to appear outspoken but you really need to teach your children to respect your dog - a 6 year old should understand the word NO - and must be made to understand NOT to go into the dogs space under any circumstances.

Please don't take my points the wrong way - because as I said you sound a lovely caring owner and I hope you stay around
regards
DT


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

Reading this I am wondering if I have put my own kids in danger - by letting them get in Lily and Poppys bed and when we had the crate they got in that with the dogs too. 

But the dogs have never ever shown any aggression. 

Am I doing right or what should I do?


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

Its not quite the same but did you read my earlier post "puppy bit toddler" (part 1 & 2)..

Oscar is also a Cocker and totally amicable. He is only 14 weeks but this was very similar circumstances involving a pigs ear.

I was totally shocked because this was a proper full on bite not just puppy mouthing and totally out of character.

I am dealing with the guarding behaviour (see posts) but it really is a wake up call.

I maybe would have been more concerned if he had done more damage but am kind of thinking at 14 weeks he is still learning the boundaries. 7 Months is still quite young isn't it ?

Sorry can't be more helpful. :sad:


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> Reading this I am wondering if I have put my own kids in danger - by letting them get in Lily and Poppys bed and when we had the crate they got in that with the dogs too.
> 
> But the dogs have never ever shown any aggression.
> 
> Am I doing right or what should I do?


Goldie's would love this type of thing, sharing every piece of life with their family


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

rona said:


> Goldie's would love this type of thing, sharing every piece of life with their family


Thanks for that Rona. I was getting worried.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

Have we got some bad Cocker spaniel breeders out there that are not worrying about temperament? 
If so people should be warned to choose carefully


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> Reading this I am wondering if I have put my own kids in danger - by letting them get in Lily and Poppys bed and when we had the crate they got in that with the dogs too.
> 
> But the dogs have never ever shown any aggression.
> 
> Am I doing right or what should I do?


I think trust comes with time - my young grandson gets into my dog beds - he see's not danger,, the dogs don't mind one bit but I do get onto him = really tore a strip of him today!!!


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## Melysia (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm no expert but.....(I feel the need to say that otherwise your advice get's quoted)
I understand your dilemma. I'm not going to verbally batter you with "put your child first all you should be thinking about is your child blah blah"

Were all adults and care about our families which include our pets especially on here.

I think your right in everything you've done. Things happen, we all know animals are animals at the end of the day. If your dog has a place (cage in this case) it calls it's own where it thinks instinctivly it can take anything to and call it's own it will. Plus kids are kids and they don't always no matter how much they're told, will be curious and go across that boundry.

I'm not a dog expert but, if I was in your position I would, and I'm sure you have, explain to your your daughter the importance of personal space in humans (obvious) streches to that of a dog. If the dog takes anything into that space don't take it yourself, get an adult to take it away.

I would post further as to what I would do if I was in your position but I wouldn't want to give out advice that I haven't tried myself. I don't have a dog anymore but I hope that you get the advice you need.

I hope your daughter is ok x


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

Also from your dogs point you wernt there so you dont know what may have happened.children can be rough


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

Quite happy with my breeder thankyou. Oscars Mum is an absolute darling.

Dogs are dogs at the end of the day and children are children.

I grew up with the soppiest springer imaginable but you left him well alone when he had a bone. 

Whilst i am worried that Oscar took a bit of a turn i feel it is really important not to over react. I think you have to view it as a one of unless a pattern emerges, hopefully lesson learnt by all.

I may learn to regret that attitude if he does take a lump out of Sophie again and i will do everything possible to avoid it but what is the alternative, give up on a puppy who hasn't learnt the rules yet??


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## kenla210 (Nov 12, 2008)

no she is an orange roan. And no offence taken, yes I know the problem holds fault on both sides, Devon should never have backed her into a corner like that trying to get the (damn) sock, espec not into her cage and should have backed off when daisy started growling, but daisy shouldn't have lashed out either.
They both know they did wrong, both very subdued...
And I know no guarentees, can't even trust humans 100% let alone dogs.
I just wanted to see how fixable this is from a behavioural point of view before I make any decisions regarding what to do next. 
Have organized for dog sitter tomorrow to give them both a bit of space.

I can't help thinking that apart from the fact my kids appear to be deaf to my rules (think they learnt their lesson there!) that I missed/didn't do something and it's my fault 

Ps bushey park is one of our favourite places


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

rainy said:


> Quite happy with my breeder thankyou. Oscars Mum is an absolute darling.
> 
> Dogs are dogs at the end of the day and children are children.
> 
> ...


well said,if only more thought along those lines the rescues wouldnt be so full


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## kenla210 (Nov 12, 2008)

my breeder seemed good, met mum & dad and they were lovely dogs, and they said if ever any probs (for any reason) to call them first before rehoming as they would tale her back. Daisy is a lovely dog. Am going to get behaviourist in, and speak to vet. Plus going to reiterate "rules" with kids - maybe this time they will listen, will make sure they are in on session with behaviourist too. Think just really unlucky, because it was cage and the proximity it was her face. If he says there is a major problem that we can't fix then will look at next steps.
Thanks for the support, just such a shock! Have barely stopped crying all day! Am sure we will work it out


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

I'll say this first to get it out of the way - while I appreciate that your daughter may have been in the 'wrong' as such, I would still not expect that sort of behaviour - many, many dogs will not bite even if their space is invaded. That said, I'm sure this can be resolved. 

Your vet will be able to refer you to a good behaviourist - Jon Bowen works from a vet practice in Wimbledon and is very good. You may want to try a trainer with experience in behavioural problems first though, and David Bayliss (based in Ham) is good. The apdt website will give you more info.

Did you go to any puppy classes with him? 

PS As you can probably tell, I'm not far from you.


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## lee mathers (Feb 17, 2009)

i would try and set a rule with your little girl that she doesnt go near daisys cadge and also let your dog know that its wrong to take socks so they are both in the wrong from my point of veiw if you have never had any problems with her b4 like u sed u will be fine i have a baby on the way in 10 n a half wks and have 2 rotweilers and the dog gets jelous of newborns but will let a toddler who has started to walk ride on his bk and im a bit worried incase something goes wrong my bitch is great theres not a bad thing in her never has been its just my dog has given me doubt 4 the first time in five n a half years do you have any ideas for me hope your daughters face is ok?


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## kenla210 (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks for the advice - am sure it can be fixed, and yes as u say no excuse, just also know it was "fault" on both sides. Think am prob still in shock and maybe still a bit emotional. puppy classes were in Hampton with stan rawlinson, so was going to get him in but will check out the others u have suggested too, and spk to vet. Have heard that Karen at alpha is also good - have you heard anything about either of them?


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

Stan Rawlinson wouldn't be my first choice from what I've heard, but that's not from personal experience - only what I've heard.
Don't know anything about Karen so can't comment - although would appear good. Have you had a look here Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK .

Jon Bowen is a behaviourist (and vet) and would only see you on a vet's referral - so you would need to see your vet first (which vet do you use if you don't mind me asking?).


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## hari1 (Aug 10, 2008)

I would like to know why no one has asked why the child and the dog were together unsupervised long enough for the child to chase the dog who went into the crate with the stolen sock???? Just the other day there was a very long thread about not leaving your dog and children together unsupervised a
ny one remember that???? 
As for poster lee mathers why are you letting your toddler ride on your dogs back this is unfair on your dog and not a good example to set to your toddler in my opinion you are putting both your child and your dog at risk this is just not acceptable behaviour on your part.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2009)

Hari 1 - Can i just ask if you have children??

Whilst i agree that children and dogs need close supervision and in the perfect world that would be the case but it is impossible in a normal family home to watch them 24/7.

I am very careful about my 2 year old being with the dog because she is young and clumsy but i would not watch my 6 year old quite so carefully as i expect him to know how to behave (i suspect he would have done exactly the same as Kenlas Daughter and do intend to have a proper talk with him.)

It has to be a home not a prison.

The incident i mentioned with my 2 year old happened right under my nose and i wasn't quick enough to stop it. 

I think as dog owners we should be very careful not to buy into the media hysteria surrounding dogs at the moment. There is a very big difference between a dog defending it's territory and the sort of attacks reported recently in the news.

Am sure Kenla feels guilty enough as i did.

Would be interested to know if anyone felt i should get a behaviourist involved with Oscar at 14 weeks or should i just try training classes first.

Kenla - I hope your little girl is ok today and not too shaken by the whole thing. It must have been awful for her, i know my little boy would have been really upset. I wish you every luck in re building their relationship.


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## loopylisa2009 (Jan 28, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Stan Rawlinson wouldn't be my first choice from what I've heard, but that's not from personal experience - only what I've heard.
> Don't know anything about Karen so can't comment - although would appear good. Have you had a look here Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK .
> 
> Jon Bowen is a behaviourist (and vet) and would only see you on a vet's referral - so you would need to see your vet first (which vet do you use if you don't mind me asking?).


I am going there with Sox on sunday, I have had a couple of emails from them and was impressed about the fact that they seem to genuinly care about you and your dog. I can't wait to go xx lisa xx


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lily's Mum said:


> Reading this I am wondering if I have put my own kids in danger - by letting them get in Lily and Poppys bed and when we had the crate they got in that with the dogs too.
> 
> But the dogs have never ever shown any aggression.
> 
> Am I doing right or what should I do?


I would definitely not do this, however I would never trust any dog with small children. I personally think it is unfair to intrude into a dogs personal space, even if the dog seems ok with it. I think too often (I'm not saying this applies to you) people put their dogs and children in compromising situations and then when it goes wrong they blame the dog. Also the dog might wake up one day and feel ill, they might react towards a child who is in it's personal space, not because it's aggressive but because it doesn't feel well. At the end of the day they are animals and they deserve to have a place that is theirs and where they can retreat in peace and quiet.

I'm sorry if this comes across as ranting but I feel very strongly on dogs having their own space.
Vicky x


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Hi and welcome
> Please I do not want to sound hard, from your post you come across as a really nice person and I really do not want to upset you in anyway - just want to tell you how I see it from the outside.
> 
> firsty, you say how can you ever trust the dog with your child again - I think the answer to this regarding any dog and any child is that you never do trust them 100%.
> ...


I am 100% in agreement with this.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> I would definitely not do this, however I would never trust any dog with small children. I personally think it is unfair to intrude into a dogs personal space, even if the dog seems ok with it. I think too often (I'm not saying this applies to you) people put their dogs and children in compromising situations and then when it goes wrong they blame the dog. Also the dog might wake up one day and feel ill, they might react towards a child who is in it's personal space, not because it's aggressive but because it doesn't feel well. At the end of the day they are animals and they deserve to have a place that is theirs and where they can retreat in peace and quiet.
> 
> I'm sorry if this comes across as ranting but I feel very strongly on dogs having their own space.
> Vicky x


With hindsight Vicky I would think there are a fair few people out there that had they have lived by these rules would not now be suffering the tragadys that have befallen them
Good Post
regards
DT


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

kenla210 said:


> ok so I have posted on here a couple of times, but generally about things like food, and toilet training etc. I have a 7 month old working cocker spaniel daisy, who we have never had any problems with. But today, she bit my 6 year old daughter in the face resulting in half a day down the hospital and stitches on her lips. Good thing is that daughter is fine and scarring should be minimal.
> I know that it was provoked, i was in the shower and daisy went to her cage with a sock she had stolen, and Devon went in to get it, even tho daisy was growling, so I know daisy was backed in to a corner and scared, plus defending her space. I have always been really strict about her cage being her space and not to go near her. I know it is really Devon's fault. I just don't know what to do next!
> Daisy is my first dog, I researched breed, feed her a good diet (jwb & nature menu), took her to puppy training classes, never raised a hand to her, was really strict about rules with kids, and she is a lovely dog who has never shown any sign of aggression before, she barks if people come to the door, but is always fine once she can see them, figures that is normal dog behaviour. am devastated by the whole thing.
> Have spoken to behaviourist, and he says it can be fixed, but how do I ever trust her (or the kids) together again. And is there anything to the idea that once a dog has bitten once it will do it again - I just can't risk it!
> ...


hi hun

i'm like one of the other posters my kids lay in the bed with my dogs and i have never had a problem and my kids know this is their space if the dogs growl and say go away the kids go. and its only happened once and that was the other day when candy got in her whelping box.

it might be a case of trainging the dog that this is her space but if you chose to go in it then you will she has no right to snap. might be worth you putti gnher in adn ptting a hand in if she growls say NO firmly and keep this up until you can sit just in the door or so close to it it looks like your in it. NEVER put yourself in danger try training first and rebuild that trust. if it doesn't work then i think it may be a case of looking at rehoming with older children?

good luck and i hope it works for you
x


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

As for poster lee mathers why are you letting your toddler ride on your dogs back this is unfair on your dog and not a good example to set to your toddler in my opinion you are putting both your child and your dog at risk this is just not acceptable behaviour on your part.[/QUOTE]

Spot on with this. Again not fair on the dog, and your child will grow up to think this is ok, with a lot of dogs it is not ok. My opinion is kids should be brought up to respect dogs and that does not include riding on their backs or sleeping in their beds!


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2009)

candysmum said:


> hi hun
> 
> i'm like one of the other posters my kids lay in the bed with my dogs and i have never had a problem and my kids know this is their space if the dogs growl and say go away the kids go. and its only happened once and that was the other day when candy got in her whelping box.
> 
> ...


Candys mum aka spot (seeing as you're a norty gal)
Back to training the children to respect the dog!!
lol
DT


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi. Firstly I'm really sorry about your daughter, I can imagine it's been a pretty tough time. You've had loads of advice, the only thing I would add, is if you know it is provoked, then you can get over this. Ensure the 6 year old fully understands never to go into her crate again and surely this won't happen.

I do not think you need to see a behaviourist if you have never seen any other aggression before. If however you do see that the dog is beginning to behave aggressively i.e staring intently, or growling or barking then cross that bridge when you come to it.

I understand it's been emotional, but you've all now realised that the dog's crate is off limits. However I do think you should practice taking him out of his crate/giving him a treat but then taking it off him, to see whether he does have aggression issues or whether it was a one off. If he behaves territorially over his crate then you need to address it.

Good luck, but try to keep it in perspective x


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## Kathryn1 (Jan 30, 2009)

Firstly im sorry that this has happened, must of been a shock for both of you and the dog. 

I havent got a dog so i cant help with this issue, but just wanted to join in really with my new cat, (i know off topic sorry) but she was given to me from a rescue home and is very placid but the more she is settling in the more playful she is getting. 

Anyway the other day my son came upstairs and she had scrammed him 3 times on his hand. 

It really shocked me as she has done it to me in play mood but obviously not harry and he was stroking her and she thought he was playing. As he is only 2 it is hard to try and explain that she is playing. 

But now i am very wary of them being together so have to watch them like a hawk. 

I hope you can sort this problem out and be back to a happy household again. xxxx


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Candys mum aka spot (seeing as you're a norty gal)
> Back to training the children to respect the dog!!
> lol
> DT


oh they have been told and they wont go by the whelping box now. they also know that if they go in it and candy nips them then its their own fault and mummy has no sympathy.

BUt yes they know not to go in the dogs whelping box and they have been trained as i sit next to the dogs bed on this (now whelping box) they have to come past me anyway i live in the dinning room lol


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

OH i feel for you completely , I hope your daughter is OK,

I also have a 6 year old who i can tell until i am blue in the face not do things and she still does it,

I expect but could be wrong, you won't have to go over board with your daughter I would say Daisy has made herself well and truly heard, and your daughter will have respect not to go to the dogs bed and tackle her again,

It is so sad when both do and child have to learn this way, but sometimes it just has to happen!

Is your daughter nervous of her now, it would be so sad if she was,

Keep us posted on how things pan out won't you.

Here if you want to vent:crazy:

Em


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

i am really sorry to read about your little girl being bitten ,but at the end of the day a child must be taught respect for the dog/animal (which i am not saying you havent done and these things happen with children and pets)she most probably didnt know the danger of chasing the dog into his cage. i know we all love our dogs/pets but at the end of the day they are animals who cannot be reasoned with as such and can quite possibly turn on a sixpence if they feel threatened or not well which may result in a tragedy or just a little nip . please never underestimate the potential danger of leaving your children alone with a dog or any kind,although of course different breeds can and do inflict much more damage than other breeds but they are all dogs and you cannot 100% know if at any time they may turn. sometimes the most docile pet dog has turned for no known reason( well not known to his owner anyway)


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2009)

I think what we are all saying is it doesn't matter what you do either training your dog or your children they are both fallible.

It is just as unreasonable to expect a 6 year old to understand the nuances of dog behaviour as it is to expect a dog to put up with everything an enthusiastic child can throw at them.

Some dogs are bomb proof as are some children but some aren't. Cest La Vie.

I think the key is to deal with the situation in a calm, measured and well informed manner as has happened in this situation. (although i am sure it didn't feel like that yesterday).

Well Done and Good Luck


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## kenla210 (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice everyone, much calmer and more pragmatic today. Think the fact that I have spoken to just about anyone that will listen about it all - 1 vet, 2 behaviourists, 2 trainers, dog sitter, friends colleagues and of course all of u...
The dog has had rules re-established, plus some new ones added- dog isn''t allowed on sofa, and must be in cage if unsupervised with them etc Kids rules have been re-established no chasing after dog, no tug of war, no yelling right by her and def no going anywhere near cage. Also found an online course for kids on how to treat dogs on kennel club website so guess what they will be doing tomorrow...This is non negotiable if they want to keep the dog!
Although it is negotiable whether we need a behaviourist, vet and dog sitter think it is so so, have got a referal and appointment booked for Friday. If nothing else, think we all need help in calming down and getting past this.
Think that covers everything as much as possible- daisy is not a "bad" dog, the kids are not "bad" kids, and I have/am doing my best to be a responsible owner/parent - obv no guarentees all we can do from now is learn from mistakes and do our very best to ensure it doesn't happen again!
On the positive side Devon is fine and not scared with daisy, the stitches come out on Friday and dr thinks minimal scarring so could have been SO much worse!
Now, where is that red wine!?!


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2009)

Am joining you on the wine front.

Good tip about the kennel club site (i know what Matthew is doing tomorrow).

You may have been told this already but if you have Daisy insured and the vet recommends a behaviourist some Insurance companies will cover the cost.

We are loving the new rules in our house Sophie (the 2 year old) has already been sent out of the room 3 times for bothering the dog in some way or other. The dog is looking slightly bewildered by it all.

Enjoy the wine, would have some chocolate too


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Gr8 to hear you sound so upbeat and taking control of the situation. If only more people would ...... x


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

Is your dog from working or showing lines?


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## Superpettoysrus.com (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi,

Just wanted to say that my son has also been bitten by a spaniel too last year when i was having my daughter my son was staying at my dads house and my brother brought his dog round to my dads. When he gets there they always give him some cracknel treats and as he was eating my son walked past not bothering the dog but touched him on the way past and the dog turned and bit him on the arm....this dog shows no signs of aggression normally but i will never trust him around my children again.

I also wanted to comment on the situation.......everyone is focusing on the fact that the girl was in the crate and he was backed into a corner...fair enuf...but i dont think it had anything to do with it being his personal space....could it not be that she tried to take the sock from him and he wanted it so he bit her??? but had he not had a sock and she was in the crate he may have enjoyed a gentle stroke??


I think this same problem could have arisin if she tried to take anything from the dog no matter where the dog was.

I would make sure she knows never to try and take anything from the dog or tease it with anything as it could be this that is the problem.

i had a dog who was terrible when he had something you wanted whether it be a treat or even a peice of paper...if he wanted it you couldnt have it......mind you one day he had a 5 pound note in his mouth and i sure as hell got that


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2009)

Funny the cracknell is the same stuff as the pigs ear and that was why my pup bit my daughter, he was guarding the pigs ear.

I do always describe it as doggy chocolate and i would have someones hand off if they tried to pinch my galaxy


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2009)

It sounds like your dog was guarding the sock thats why she bit your daughter, does she guard anything else?x


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I cant believe that no one has suggested you get rid of the dog. What happens when your daughter has friends round and one of them gets bitten. I am sorry, but I can see no reason to take risks like that. And yes, I have had experience. My lovely collie adored my daughter but was really not safe around other children and one day she nipped my daughter, just a little bruise under her eye. I am afraid she was put down on my vets advice. I dont see how a behaviourist can help, you have a situation at home with the dog and children left unsupervised and it is quite likely to happen again. Are you sure your kids wont replicate what happened. Are you going to lock the dog away every time you go and get a child a drink or go to the loo. I just couldnt live with myself I am afraid.


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## kenla210 (Nov 12, 2008)

she is a working cocker, although have no intention of working her I have considered doing agility or flyball when she is a bit older, as I think she needs something to keep her mind/body active and use up some energy.
I think it was a mix of resource guarding (a pair of socks for goodness sake!) territory guarding and fear. Apparently working cockers are notorious for resource guarding so this is def something to work with the behaviourist on (shame I never knew this fact before!) it is just the socks, any of us could play with her food all day long and she wouldn't care


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2009)

Blitz,

The reason no one has suggested it is because it is maybe a bit over zealous. Surely putting a dog to sleep should be a last resort once other avenues are explored.

Could you not have re homed your previous dog??

I don't wish to offend but are you suggesting you can't own a dog if you have children then??


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## kenla210 (Nov 12, 2008)

of course we have considered getting rid of the dog! But I have seen the vet, spoken to behaviourist(s) and the trainer who trained her, dog sitter who knows her, and if this was unprovoked this would be a different matter. We are doing a temperament test on Friday but given her previous behaviour, her behaviour since, I am prepared to go with their advice. If there is any indication from dog or children or the behaviourist that this is anything other than an isolated provoked incident from what is still a very young dog, then of course we will look at rehoming, but am prepared to look into it further before acting on gut reaction.
I'm sorry that your vet felt the best thing was to put your dog down, but everyone I have spoken to (and trust me I have spoken to lots!) think this is not an issue with training etc
My kids safety is the priority, but daisy is a family member too and on the advice I have been given, I at least owe it to her to try to work this out first


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## Kathryn1 (Jan 30, 2009)

This is such a tricky subject to talk about with light of recent events with attacks on children etc.

Putting a dog down is definitely the last resort but then in the next breath im thinking i couldnt live with having to watch every move of the dog and children and what if it happens again and is worse. 

It is such an awful position to be put into but the dog would have to be rehomed i would never say put a dog down there is no reason for that at all. xxx


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2009)

Right with you Kenla xx


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

Blitz said:


> I cant believe that no one has suggested you get rid of the dog. What happens when your daughter has friends round and one of them gets bitten. I am sorry, but I can see no reason to take risks like that. And yes, I have had experience. My lovely collie adored my daughter but was really not safe around other children and one day she nipped my daughter, just a little bruise under her eye. I am afraid she was put down on my vets advice. I dont see how a behaviourist can help, you have a situation at home with the dog and children left unsupervised and it is quite likely to happen again. Are you sure your kids wont replicate what happened. Are you going to lock the dog away every time you go and get a child a drink or go to the loo. I just couldnt live with myself I am afraid.


were you there when it happened??and was there a reason for the attack?


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## Gem24 (Feb 18, 2009)

Firstly the dog has no space, everything in your home is yours not the dogs! 

Secondly i would get rid of the dog! it has shown aggression to a child end of story sorry if its not what you wanted to hear the behaviour is not acceptable!


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2009)

So therefore i assume that my 14 week old spaniel should also go because she hasn't had time to learn the rules fully yet???!!!!!

This was a 7 MONTH OLD dog.

Whilst i fully accept that this was totally unacceptable behaviour and i would be first in line to agree with you if this had been a second attack or there had been a pattern of aggression you have no idea what provoked this dog to behave like this.

Thankfully you are in the minority on this thread.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Totally agree with that rainy! People need to try to work through their dog problems and like you say it's not as if it was unprovoked or there was a pattern.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I would imagine that all attacks are provoked. You now know that the dog will inflict damage, not just a warning nip, if the child is in the wrong place at the wrong time - I just couldnt live with that one.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2009)

I think it's a very personal thing.

You know your own child and you know your own dog.

No dog is 100% safe but i do believe they are allowed 1 mistake (and yes there are different degrees of "mistake" obviously dogs that don't back off after the initial snap need to be destroyed as this is something different as in the recent cases we have seen)

I think we must distinguish between a bite and an attack.

This is a very immotive subjest that people are never going to agree on.


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## Gem24 (Feb 18, 2009)

rainy said:


> So therefore i assume that my 14 week old spaniel should also go because she hasn't had time to learn the rules fully yet???!!!!!
> 
> This was a 7 MONTH OLD dog.
> 
> ...


No Dog would remain in my house if it had attacked! You have a working dog it should know the rules! my dog knew his place from day one! Its age is no excuse! your dog has now challenged your child and it will again! next time she may not be so lucky!

Like i said before you may not like it but that is how it works! if i am in the minority maybe this is the reason we have frequent dog attacks, as people don't handle these situations correctly!

Don't ask for opinions if you cant handle all ends of the spectrum!


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2009)

i don't believe we do have "frequent" dog attacks i think the media whip up a frenzy when we do have one.

And i am quite capable of "handing" both ends of the argument It's called a DEBATE.

You give your opinion i give my opinion and then we agree to differ.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

I know I am new but i feel I need to say something about this,, I used to own an Irish wolfhound a couple of years ago he was hugh big lump of dizzyness, my daughter was 3 he towered above her,

Anyway oneday she came into the house screaming with a bite graze on her hand, The dog had snapped at her and broken her skin I was in the kitchen loading the washing machine so i had taken my eyes off the ball for a matter of minuets,

When I went out to get hold of the dog to contain him, MY son was in floods saying "No mum she did it she pulled his ears"
When I looked in Alfies ear it was all bleedng my daughter had pulled his ear and her nails had gauged a big scratch out of it,, 

We thought about rehoming him due to this, but then wittnessed Alfie do some strange things, he would not leave my daughters side, this went on for days whereever she went the dog followed even to the point of getting in the bath with her 

It made life very hard as i had to have eyes in the back of my head, 

we didn't rehome him and had no problems with him at all after that, He was eventually rehomed due to me breaking my back and he was a big strong wonderfull hound that needed a healthy person to look after him, 

But if my daughter had done nothing to him and he had gone for her, i think I would have had to let him go, You cannot replace a child, and they have to live with there face all there life if it gets marked it is a shame

Sorry very long winded:scared:


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Personally, I would never advocate a young child being left alone with a dog.

I totally appreciate however, that it is not easy to maintain complete supervision, but this is how bites occur and some can be fatal.

NO dog can be deemed completely safe to leave alone with small children regardless of breed. 

I do hope that your little girl has mentally and physically recovered and that you can go forward from this. Seeing a good behaviourist can only help


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2009)

yes obviously an unprovoked attack is something different altogether.


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## nicola1980 (Oct 5, 2008)

I do hope your little girl is ok.
You are doing the right thing in getting advice and help off people i.e. the vet and behaviourist, like you said this was a one off attack and it's not as if your dog is showing aggression any other time.

Far too many people get dogs and expect them to know the rules of the house from the word go and if anything happens are very quick to have them put to sleep, you are being a responsible dog owner and mum by trying to work through your problem.


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

I have to say I admire both Kenla and Rainy because I think you have both coped admirably well. You have both been so level headed and took on a balanced attitude. it must be very hard for youi both - so well done.

I too have young children and thank god neither of my dogs have bitten my children. I would hate to be in either of yours situation.

I love my children but I also love my doglets and couldn't bear the thought of making uncomfortable decisions.

I hope it all works out for you and the doggies and children all live in perfect harmony.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2009)

Thank you Lilys Mum.

Oscar is asleep on my head as i type (which is probably a bad thing but hey he's a dog and it's warm) and Kenla has passed on some helpful info for me.

Anyone with young children try this (it doesn't hurt to remind them )

Get Dog Smart

I am going to post it as a thread.

My little boy quite enjoyed it and much more likely to listen to it than to me


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## Sir Archibald (Feb 19, 2009)

My 5 month old Springer showed a strong 'Guarding' reaction to a hide chew he was given. He snapped at my 5yo daughter but didn't connect but it was a strong enough reaction for me to be very shocked and it gave me a wake up call to being more careful when he had things that he wanted such as stolen toys, socks, gloves etc.

We got around this by training him with an extra long chew but still held the end so that he could not slink off into his crate with his 'posession'. We would then stay 'Off' to him and lure him off the chew with a tasty treat. We'd then give the commend 'Take it' and let him have the chew back (whilst still holding the other end). We repeated this several times over 3-4 days and he now willingly gives up his 'possesion' now if we say 'Off'.

However, he had a fight with his sister at the weekend whilst out on a walk as she tried to steal his stone. She's quite a strong dominant bitch and it culminated in a pretty nasty fight. 
So, I suppose what I am trying to say is that although you can control some situations, all you can do is put rules in place to minimise unwanted events i.e. your daughter understanding what she can and cannot do around your dog. 

We've had issues with our daughter too as she'll crawl up behind our dog to cuddle him when he is asleep or she'll smother him with cuddles and puts her face near his. We have told her time and time again and have even resorted to showing her pictures of children who have had their faces bitten by dogs and have had to have stitches. It still hasn't completely sunk in yet although she has got better. 
I hope your daughter is OK and not too traumatised. I would hazzard a guess that it was an unfortunate incident and hopefully it has been a hard lesson learnt.


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