# Capital punishment?



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Like today..words cannot describe my feelings. i really want to see that soldiers murderes put to death.thoughts?


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Is there no death penalty in the UK or are you looking for a public execution maybe?


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Spirited said:


> Is there no death penalty in the UK or are you looking for a *public execution* maybe?


What a good idea :thumbup:


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

In keeping with Biblical teachings how bout if they're done in the same way they did that poor soldier.

Who'd have the stomach to do such a thing though?


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Spirited said:


> Is there no death penalty in the UK or are you looking for a public execution maybe?


really i would take this! the fear that boy endured...his death broadcast all over news, media...his family watching. eye for an eye in my book.


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

mollydog07 said:


> really i would take this! the fear that boy endured...his death broadcast all over news, media...his family watching. *eye for an eye* in my book.


Isn't that what the killer said into the camera right after he killed the soldier?


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Gertrude said:


> Isn't that what the killer said into the camera right after he killed the soldier?


not quite sure what your post means.i would demand the death penalty for this boys murderes.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Gertrude said:


> Isn't that what the killer said into the camera right after he killed the soldier?


I do remember that being said.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Spirited said:


> I do remember that being said.


mmm by sadistic murderes?


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> mmm by sadistic murderes?


Yeah standing there with a meat cleaver and carving knife and covered in blood.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Death penalty definitely..........to be honest ime sick of seeing this country having to adapt to accomodate these people, fearful of being classed as racist for not agreeing with their extreme beliefs. Get them all back where they come from, ok they arnt all the same but if we are rid of them all at least we know the threats are out.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> Death penalty definitely..........to be honest ime sick of seeing this country having to adapt to accomodate these people, fearful of being classed as racist for not agreeing with their extreme beliefs. Get them all back where they come from, ok they arnt all the same but if we are rid of them all at least we know the threats are out.


I doubt they would like us then and they probably would want too kill us.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Spirited said:


> Yeah standing there with a meat cleaver and carving knife and covered in blood.


This scum ran the lad over in their car....they then butchered him. i would defo hang them.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Whats happened to our country


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> Whats happened to our country


haeveymolly it aint our country.i wish no harm on any human....unfortunatley harm is wished on us.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

mollydog07 said:


> haeveymolly it aint our country.i wish no harm on any human....unfortunatley harm is wished on us.


True it isnt our country anymore.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> Death penalty definitely..........to be honest ime sick of seeing this country having to adapt to accomodate these people, fearful of being classed as racist for not agreeing with their extreme beliefs. *Get them all back where they come from*, ok they arnt all the same but if we are rid of them all at least we know the threats are out.


Werent they british born? Statements like that is what make people shout racism. We have our fair share of home grown threats.

This is more about extremist religion than Race, sadly racists often have taken the opportunity to abuse this tragedy for their own ends - the EDL were out in force in Woolwich last night.

I dont believe capital punishment, it makes us no better than them. They will suffer greater humiliation and hardship in prison - hopefully not segregated so they really can suffer.

They WANTED to get arrested, they waited for the police. They probably hoped to be shot and killed on site to become matyrs. Hopefully they will be bitterly disappointed when they wake up in hospital if they havent already.

Now, they can suffer the consequences, not have an easy escape (and there own percieved glory) in death


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Whats happened to our country


 An emperor once ruled this great empire of ours until it became a kingdom ruled by a king.

Now the king has gone it is just a country ruled by a pack of


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

grumpy goby said:


> Werent they british born? Statements like that is what make people shout racism. We have our fair share of home grown threats.
> 
> This is more about extremist religion than Race, sadly racists often have taken the opportunity to abuse this tragedy for their own ends - the EDL were out in force in Woolwich last night.
> 
> ...


The problem is prison doesnt see justice done, i dont care if they were british born or not, they still have their beliefs, many are british born but dont live by our rules and beliefs, they still class women as 2nd class citizens some still arrange marriages for their daughters and many suffer if they dont conform.

It shouts racism?? thats fine by me, because if someone is racist for not agreeing, liking or accepting these people, then you know what? ime more than happy to be racist.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> Werent they british born? Statements like that is what make people shout racism. We have our fair share of home grown threats.
> 
> This is more about extremist religion than Race, sadly racists often have taken the opportunity to abuse this tragedy for their own ends - the EDL were out in force in Woolwich last night.
> 
> ...


hi grumpy,i didnt believe in capital punishment either....i do now,i do not want that scum to ever experience fresh air. family visits.3 meals a day and sky telly!...i really want to see them put to death.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I think the death penalty should be brought back for cases like this, and where there is no doubt at all,there should be a rolling scale of punishments i think, 
Let the punishment fit the crime, so long for murder where there is absolutely no doubt as in this case, and for child killings where proved, 
Any doubt at all life sentence ,until or unless proved later,


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> The problem is prison doesnt see justice done, i dont care if they were british born or not, they still have their beliefs, many are british born but dont live by our rules and beliefs, they still class women as 2nd class citizens some still arrange marriages for their daughters and many suffer if they dont conform.
> 
> It shouts racism?? thats fine by me, because if someone is racist for not agreeing, liking or accepting these people, then you know what? ime more than happy to be racist.


You said send them back. Back where? They are from England. That is what I responded to.

Their religion does not dictate location. If they are left with in prison, with other prisoners, they will suffer much greater than if they were dealt a death by law.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

I've always said bring back the death penalty, especially now, there is so so so much evidence, forensics, dna, finger prints, for goodness sake they could even do a lie detector for good measure. I don't think kill the way they killed would be fair on the person having to do it, but a nice public lethal injection, or hanging, would be fine. There is no need to keep these scum living in a cushy little British prison, 3 lovely meals a day with 5 different choices or something to meet your diet requirements, a cosy warm bed and a roof over your head, with no bills and no tax to pay but still all of your human rights, oh and don't forget the TV's, x-box, pool tables


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> Whats happened to our country


Exactly what Enoch Powell predicted!



> Here is a decent, ordinary fellow-Englishman, who in broad daylight in my own town says to me, his Member of Parliament, that the country will not be worth living in for his children. I simply do not have the right to shrug my shoulders and think about something else. What he is saying, thousands and hundreds of thousands are saying and thinking - not throughout Great Britain, perhaps, but in the areas that are already undergoing the total transformation to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of English history.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> You said send them back. Back where? They are from England. That is what I responded to.
> 
> Their religion does not dictate location. If they are left with in prison, with other prisoners, they will suffer much greater than if they were dealt a death by law.


Well really if they go to jail i hope they are abused battered and beasted every second of their lives.death would be a release.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

grumpy goby said:


> You said send them back. Back where? They are from England. That is what I responded to.
> 
> Their religion does not dictate location. If they are left with in prison, with other prisoners, they will suffer much greater than if they were dealt a death by law.


Back to the country where these horrific beliefs have come from, i dont care if they have been born here they are and will always be in their eyes muslims many will always live as muslims.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> Exactly what Enoch Powell predicted!


Yep and he was shot down in flames for saying what he said........my god i bet some wish they had listened and acted. He said there would be trouble and they would take over...never a true word spoken.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> Back to the country where these horrific beliefs have come from, i dont care if they have been born here they are and will always be in their eyes muslims many will always live as muslims.


Theres nothing wrong with Muslims.

Its the extremists that twist the writings of their religions that are the problem.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

I guess I am classed as Christian, but I wouldn't want to watch anyone in an arena fighting a lion.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I'm going to be unpopular for saying what i think, but i'll say it anyway.
One of the guys said about how our soldiers are killing innocent women and children. Which they are. Now these 2 have killed one of ours.
You believe the death penalty would be fair?
Now i will state, what they did was bloody evil, and i don't agree with it one bit.
Having said that, i don't believe we should be involved in wars that have nothing to do with us.
Bottom line is, no good can come out of killing.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

MCWillow said:


> Theres nothing wrong with Muslims.
> 
> Its the extremists that twist the writings of their religions that are the problem.
> 
> ...


Ive actually said in few posts that i know they arnt all the same.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I've mixed feelings about the death penalty. Is the death penalty meant as a punishment? Revenge? Are you being any better than the murderer by wanting the death penalty? Is the death penalty warranted when public safety is at risk? I almost feel that death is too nice a punishment if the purpose is punishment. Locking someone up for life in a lonely cell is a worst punishment to receive than death, IMO. People are trying to get euthanasia and doctor assisted suicide legalized after all.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I'm going to be unpopular for saying what i think, but i'll say it anyway.
> One of the guys said about how our soldiers are killing innocent women and children. Which they are. Now these 2 have killed one of ours.
> You believe the death penalty would be fair?
> Now i will state, what they did was bloody evil, and i don't agree with it one bit.
> ...


I agree to a point, but they arnt just knowingly killing "innocent" women and children, many are very dangerous they are used, armed with grenades, ive heard some horrendous stories from a very close friend that has served in afgan twice, horrific how these women and children are used as lures. Many women and children are innocent and killed because our soldiers dont know who the genuine ones are and who are threats.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *I'm going to be unpopular for saying what i think, but i'll say it anyway.
> One of the guys said about how our soldiers are killing innocent women and children. Which they are. Now these 2 have killed one of ours.
> You believe the death penalty would be fair?
> Now i will state, what they did was bloody evil, and i don't agree with it one bit.
> ...


I agreed with your post as its another opinion.i dont agree with our troops in afghanistan,janice this was england! not a warzone! this boys death was a liberty taking....lad out in his help for heroes t shirt walking out the barracks.run over with a motor then stabbed and marcheted to death.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> Ive actually said in few posts that i know they arnt all the same.


I wasn't getting at you personally. Sorry if I offended you, I certainly didn't intend to 

I was just responding to this post


haeveymolly said:


> Back to the country where these horrific beliefs have come from, i dont care if they have been born here* they are and will always be in their eyes muslims many will always live as muslims*.


I was saying that being a Muslim is not a bad thing - its the extremists that are bad. And you get those in every religion.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

DogLover1981 said:


> I've mixed feelings about the death penalty. Is the death penalty meant as a punishment? Revenge? Are you being any better than the murderer by wanting the death penalty? Is the death penalty warranted when public safety is at risk? I almost feel that death is too nice a punishment if the purpose is punishment. Locking someone up for life in a lonely cell is a worst punishment to receive than death, IMO. People are trying to get euthanasia and doctor assisted suicide legalized after all.


do you have capital punishment in your state? just out of curiosity.

here in Britain jail is too easy, and the length of time spent in jail is too short, I think that is why people want the death penalty brought back here, if jail was tougher and not so easy and life meant life then it might be a different story


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

MCWillow said:


> I wasn't getting at you personally. Sorry if I offended you, I certainly didn't intend to
> 
> I was just responding to this post
> 
> I was saying that being a Muslim is not a bad thing - its the extremists that are bad. And you get those in every religion.


 no not offended at all.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

DogLover1981 said:


> I've mixed feelings about the death penalty. Is the death penalty meant as a punishment? Revenge? Are you being any better than the murderer by wanting the death penalty? Is the death penalty warranted when public safety is at risk? I almost feel that death is too nice a punishment if the purpose is punishment. Locking someone up for life in a lonely cell is a worst punishment to receive than death, IMO. People are trying to get euthanasia and doctor assisted suicide legalized after all.


Hi doglover i would have them 2 battered abused and beasted every minute of their life.lees family will suffer permanently.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I wouldnt normally opt for capital punishment but in this case..string the bast***s up! 

It would be good to let any other nutters with similar views or ideas to these vile monsters that GB isnt the pussy state they think we are.

Truth is..these pigs will be given the best medical care and looked after to the max for the rest of their lives...just in case they shout HUMAN RIGHTS!!!!

And anyone who stands up for the rights of this evil pair should be treated to a one way ticket to the Country of their choice. 

They may hate our Government and all it stands for but one at least made the most of the education system in the UK and no doubt both were claiming benefits...this Country so needs to stand up to this kind of sh1t. Zero tolerance on terrorism of any kind


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

I think I want to rise above the level of these fanatical murderers, I think I am better than that. 

No I can't forgive them for what they have done but I refuse to allow myself to sink to their level. Killing them? no - I couldn't kill them myself so I wouldn't ask or expect someone else to kill them on my behalf. Isn't that what fanatics want anyway? I think they would be quite happy to be martyrs - I refuse to further their cause by killing them. 

No! lock them up somewhere where they cannot spread their hatred and taint the rest of the human race.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> I think I want to rise above the level of these fanatical murderers, I think I am better than that.
> 
> No I can't forgive them for what they have done but I refuse to allow myself to sink to their level. Killing them? no - I couldn't kill them myself so I wouldn't ask or expect someone else to kill them on my behalf. Isn't that what fanatics want anyway? I think they would be quite happy to be martyrs - I refuse to further their cause by killing them.
> 
> No! lock them up somewhere where they cannot spread their hatred and taint the rest of the human race.


At the tax payers cost and pandering to their every whim...as that is what they will demand or there will be human rights flung at us from far and wide.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Spirited said:


> *In keeping with Biblical teachings *how bout if they're done in the same way they did that poor soldier.
> 
> Who'd have the stomach to do such a thing though?


You seem to be missing a blatantly obvious religious teaching, THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

There are far worse things in life than death. Tis just a pity we aren't allowed to use these people for medical research and replace those poor animals.


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

May I suggest if a public hanging is ever agreed to that Blair and Bush occupy the adjoining gallows.
In their quest to punish a relatively small number of terrorists they are directly responsible for creating even greater hatred,and the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents.


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## j4nfr4n (Mar 10, 2013)

in this day and age with positive proof through DNA then yes get rid and think of the money saved through not keeping them in prison getting medical treatment for free and their meals cooked for them. from what you read and see on tv prison is not a bad life at all


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## gem88 (Jun 2, 2012)

this is yet another case i believe the death penalty should be brought back

however i believe more that our friggin government should grow a damn back bone and actually do something about things like this. i'm sick to death of being ashamed to be british/english. i saw a poem on facebook earlier and it rings horribley true:

England my England
Goodbye to my England , So long my old friend
Your days are numbered, being brought to an end
To be Scottish, Irish or Welsh that's fine
But don't say you're English, that's way out of line... The French and the Germans may call themselves such
So may Norwegians, the Swedes and the Dutch
You can say you are Russian or maybe a Dane
But don't say you're English ever again.
At Broadcasting House the word is taboo
In Brussels it's scrapped, in Parliament too
Even schools are affected. Staff do as they're told
They must not teach children about England of old.
Writers like Shakespeare, Milton and Shaw
The pupils don't learn about them anymore
How about Agincourt, Hastings, Arnhem or Mons ?
When England lost hosts of her very brave sons.
We are not Europeans, how can we be?
Europe is miles away, over the sea
We're the English from England, let's all be proud
Stand up and be counted - Shout it out loud!
Let's tell our Government and Brussels too
We're proud of our heritage and the Red, White and Blue
Fly the flag of Saint George or the Union Jack
Let the world know -
WE WANT OUR ENGLAND BACK !!!!


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

redroses2106 said:


> do you have capital punishment in your state? just out of curiosity.


The death penalty is legal in New Hampshire but very rarely used.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

mollydog07 said:


> Like today..words cannot describe my feelings. i really want to see that soldiers murderes put to death.thoughts?


Anyone who agrees with the death penalty agrees with murder and is a hypocrite


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Starlite said:


> You seem to be missing a blatantly obvious religious teaching, THOU SHALT NOT KILL.


It also says an eye for eye.
For a book that dictates that folks shouldnt kill, have you ever looked up how many millions have been killed in the name of religion? 



redroses2106 said:


> do you have capital punishment in your state? just out of curiosity.
> 
> here in Britain jail is too easy, and the length of time spent in jail is too short, I think that is why people want the death penalty brought back here, if jail was tougher and not so easy and life meant life then it might be a different story


The way our system is set up with nearly inexhaustible appeals a person put on death row spends an avg 15 years waiting to be executed.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Anyone who agrees with the death penalty agrees with murder and is a hypocrite


rubbish

these two killers are mad dogs, and we all know theres only one thing you can do with mad dogs

murder is the taking of life from an innocent person, these two are not innocent, Lee Rigby was an innocent

an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth....

Lee Rigby R.I.P.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Anyone who agrees with the death penalty agrees with murder and is a hypocrite


Thats a slippery slope. At some point the debate about whether abortion being considered murder/hypocrisy could slip in here and the thread will surely go off the rail. :cornut:


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> rubbish
> 
> these two are mad dogs, and we all know theres only one thing you can do with mad dogs
> 
> murder is the taking of life from an innocent person, these two are not innocent


You're wrong on two points here

1) they are humans

And

2) murder is the killing of a human, the death penalty is murder, well it is in my eyes and I don't agree with it


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Spirited said:


> The way our system is set up with nearly inexhaustible appeals a person put on death row spends an avg 15 years waiting to be executed.


15 years sweating for a result is a nice cruel twist!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> You're wrong on two points here
> 
> 1) they are humans
> 
> ...


For these sh1tbags...Id make an exception...

Humans dont behave like savages...beheading somebody in the street...these are creatures that need exterminating.....


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## makem mal (May 23, 2013)

Always said if your found guilty of taking someones life with absolutely no doubt, like these two low life live on Tv, you should loose your life. my 4 year old grandson heard on the news it being said that someone had been beheaded, this started all the questions from a four year old, my daughter had to answer during daytime telly. I know this is a touchy subject but sorry, if there's no doubt and you go out to do it you have no place in society, and tax payers shouldn't have to foot the bill to fix you up and keep you either. Bring it back and controlled right it would make a difference.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Anyone who agrees with the death penalty agrees with murder and is a hypocrite


Hi tinker bell can not agree with you! hey this hypocrite will meet up with you in the parallel uniniverse youv.ve landed from...aw luv shazza!


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

mollydog07 said:


> Hi tinker bell can not agree with you! hey this hypocrite will meet up with you in the parallel uniniverse youv.ve landed from...aw luv shazza!


I'm sorry what?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Death penalty definitely..........to be honest ime sick of seeing this country having to adapt to accomodate these people, fearful of being classed as racist for not agreeing with their extreme beliefs. Get them all back where they come from, ok they arnt all the same but if we are rid of them all at least we know the threats are out.


Yeah - if we do that we'll all definitely be free from threat of death/violence because English people never kill anyone, do they?

Are you including people like my husband (who is German) in your "get them all back where they came from" list?


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I believe the death penalty should be reinstated in the UK,

I believe those who kill innocent people and attack children especially, should be hung or injected. 

The people who kill innocent people shouldn't be protected, shouldn't be funded to live, have a easy life, they didn't give their victims the same consideration.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

They don't deserve to breathe air that we breathe,.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> I believe those who kill innocent people and attack children especially, should be hung or injected.


So soldiers then.......


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> So soldiers then.......


You forgot Presidents.

:skep:


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> So soldiers then.......


You are one horrible ****** upped person


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Gonna reitarate what i said at start of thread i would like to see the devievents who brutally slaughtered a young boy put to death. really nothing else will do.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

paddyjulie said:


> You are one horrible ****** upped person


How's that? I don't kill people, nor do I ask anyone to kill anyone for money


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> How's that? I don't kill people, nor do I ask anyone to kill anyone for money


Obviously you are now deliberately baiting people and if they respond to your posts this thread will end off being locked


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> How's that? I don't kill people, nor do I ask anyone to kill anyone for money


Your personality ..your comments everything is ...just not nice.. Sit back and look at yourself in a mirror...you may be quite shocked


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

paddyjulie said:


> Your personality ..your comments everything is ...just not nice.. Sit back and look at yourself in a mirror...you may be quite shocked


Then again...Probably not ....


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

I do not think that the death penalty hould be reinstated for anything.

I think that people who commit horrendous crimes such as the murder of Lee Rigby should be made to suffer. I've said before on this forum that I hold the Kantian belief that if someone commits a crime against society then they should automatically lose all rights within that society except to be fed basic nutrients and have a roof over their head. I believe a life sentence should mean life, without remission, and that it should include nothing but hard labour, basic meals and sleep - and the longer someone like these two murderers have to live like that the better. That's a much better way to punish them than to execute them and make them into martyrs for their cause.

Initially I was sickened by those baying for the death penalty - but then I realised that wanting people who commit atrocious crimes like this to live a long and painful life could seem equally as bloodthisty to some!


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

skip said:


> Obviously you are now deliberately baiting people and if they respond to your posts this thread will end off being locked


I'm not baiting people, it's called an opinion

Thing is, people do not like things like this pointed out to them because they do not want to open their eyes and see the big picture

I don't believe in murder full stop and yes that does include the death penalty

A lot of you are letting your emotions control your thoughts and opinions

If you get into this eye for an eye thing, tooth for tooth the whole world with be blind and toothless

At the end of the day violence on both sides needs to stop


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

paddyjulie said:


> Your personality ..your comments everything is ...just not nice.. Sit back and look at yourself in a mirror...you may be quite shocked


But I'm not the one wanting people dead

So basically what you are saying is I'm not nice because I don't want to see people dead

You seem to want revenge killings, yet I'm the one who not nice


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I'm not baiting people, it's called an opinion


I'd buy that except for this post:



tinktinktinkerbell said:


> So soldiers then.......


Knowing the reason for the thread and then adding that bit to it was nothing short of intentionally being inflammatory.

Sorry now. Truth is truth.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

As it turns out these 2 men were known to Police,and several houses have been raided, so maybe it wasnt just those 2 involved, there might be more arrests, 
Our prisons are already overcrowded,so why add 2 more who dont deserve to live ,along with child murderers ,costing a fortune to keep,and as the saying goes,while there is life there is hope, which might be how some look at it


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> But I'm not the one wanting people dead
> 
> So basically what you are saying is I'm not nice because I don't want to see people dead
> 
> You seem to want revenge killings, yet I'm the one who not nice


Get over yourself for god sake 

And when on earth did I say I want revenge killings? Explain yourself ?? How bloody dare you ...


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Spirited said:


> I'd buy that except for this post:
> 
> Knowing the reason for the thread and then adding that bit to it was nothing short of intentionally being inflammatory.
> 
> Sorry now. Truth is truth.


No dude, it's called making a point

And that point is, that ALL killing is bad, even when you put a uniform on someone, give them a gun and pay them, it's still wrong


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> I do not think that the death penalty hould be reinstated for anything.
> 
> I think that people who commit horrendous crimes such as the murder of Lee Rigby should be made to suffer. I've said before on this forum that I hold the Kantian belief that if someone commits a crime against society then they should automatically lose all rights within that society except to be fed basic nutrients and have a roof over their head. I believe a life sentence should mean life, without remission, and that it should include nothing but hard labour, basic meals and sleep - and the longer someone like these two murderers have to live like that the better. That's a much better way to punish them than to execute them and make them into martyrs for their cause.
> 
> Initially I was sickened by those baying for the death penalty - but then I realised that wanting people who commit atrocious crimes like this to live a long and painful life could seem equally as bloodthisty to some!


Hi spell weaver i respect your views,please respect mine,lee was brutatally slaughtered left in a street beheaded,stabbed slaughtered...now his assailants afforded him no dignatiy . in my view nothing else but death should be afforded the scum that took his life. give me a reason to change my thinking.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> No dude, it's called making a point
> 
> And that point is, that ALL killing is bad, even when you put a uniform on someone, give them a gun and pay them, it's still wrong


There a lots of ways to make a point without resorting to low blows or being inflammatory.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Spirited said:


> There a lots of ways to make a point without resorting to low blows or being inflammatory.


It's not a low blow mate

Why didn't the cops shoot them on sight

Because they need them alive that's why


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Spirited said:


> I'd buy that except for this post:
> 
> Knowing the reason for the thread and then adding that bit to it was nothing short of intentionally being inflammatory.
> 
> Sorry now. Truth is truth.


But don't you think she has a valid point? As I understand it, the reason given by one of the murderers for the attack was that British soldiers were killing muslims?

Now, I'm not condoning what these two scumbags have done in any way, shape, or form. Like everyone else, I'm still reeling from the horrific nature of what happened and my thoughts and feelings are with Lee's family and friends. I'm just saying that *if *they committed this atrocity because they felt that British soldiers were killing people of their religion, then questioning whether or not soldiers could be classed as murderers is a valid point.

And before anyone jumps on me - I don't actually agree with that point - I'm just defending someone's right to make it.


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> It's not a low blow mate
> 
> Why didn't the cops shoot them on sight
> 
> Because they need them alive that's why


If you say so. 
I don't know why they didn't kill them either.
We'll both have to wait and see how things play out.


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

mollydog07 said:


> Hi spell weaver i respect your views,please respect mine,lee was brutatally slaughtered left in a street beheaded,stabbed slaughtered...now his assailants afforded him no dignatiy . in my view nothing else but death should be afforded the scum that took his life. give me a reason to change my thinking.


Sorry, I can't respect your views because I think they are wrong - however I *do* respect your right to hold them and to express them.


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> It's not a low blow mate
> 
> Why didn't the cops shoot them on sight
> 
> Because they need them alive that's why


The cops did shoot them on sight....unfortunatley they lived.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> But I'm not the one wanting people dead
> 
> So basically what you are saying is I'm not nice because I don't want to see people dead
> 
> You seem to want revenge killings, yet I'm the one who not nice


Well explain ??


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> But don't you think she has a valid point? As I understand it, the reason given by one of the murderers for the attack was that British soldiers were killing muslims?
> 
> Now, I'm not condoning what these two scumbags have done in any way, shape, or form. Like everyone else, I'm still reeling from the horrific nature of what happened and my thoughts and feelings are with Lee's family and friends. I'm just saying that *if *they committed this atrocity because they felt that British soldiers were killing people of their religion, then questioning whether or not soldiers could be classed as murderers is a valid point.
> 
> And before anyone jumps on me - I don't actually agree with that point - I'm just defending someone's right to make it.


Now we're delving into semantics.

So far no one has accepted these "scumbags" reasons. Actually, Muslim's have denounced the act and are actively distancing themselves from the two.

Their reasons (skewed or otherwise) don't justify the term murderer for soldiers.

The main difference, as I see it, is because there is a declared enemy and an approval to occupy, by force, the regions soldiers are in.

A murder is a senseless act of violence brought about by lots of misguided reasons.

If you want to call anyone who takes a life a murderer, any woman who's had an abortion would walk around with that label.

Anyone who's put an animal down (for humane reasons) would also be considered a murderer.

Slippery slope there when you start trying to add apples and oranges.


----------



## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I think people who commits acts of violence like the world saw yesterday should not be allowed to live on this planet! let alone be put in a cushty British jail where they will be kept apart from other inmates so they wont be attacked.

No doubt with how absolutely crap our legal system is, these two people will probably one day walk free from jail and that I find absolutely sickening.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

LADIES! I.M A BIT EMOTIONAL! guess u are too! got up at 8am seen this boys body on sky news. lets do something positive for lee eh? he has a family...can we help? anyone near lee.s family?


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> LADIES! I.M A BIT EMOTIONAL! guess u are too! got up at 8am seen this boys body on sky news. lets do something positive for lee eh? he has a family...can we help? anyone near lee.s family?


Good question by the way.

Has no one started a fund for his family?


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

mollydog07 said:


> not quite sure what your post means.i would demand the death penalty for this boys murderes.


Ooops sorry for the late reply, I was off doing stuff.

My post meant that if we did eye for an eye [which I do agree with, my motto is what goes around...] it would just keep going round in circles.

I just dont understand why, when it was so obvious what they had done, that the police didn't just shoot to kill???

Why shoot someone this evil and then rush them to hospital to try to save their life - it just makes NO sense to me what-so-ever 
They shouldn't be 'saved', 
have money wasted on their care, 
money wasted on a trial [when the outcome is so obvious]

imo, they should already be dead!
The police should have done a full job, not half of one!


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Spirited said:


> Good question by the way.
> 
> Has no one started a fund for his family?


would be willing to help am in glasgow.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> would be willing help am in glasgow.


I'd gladly donate when one is set up. The wife and kids are going to need all the help they can get.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't think a fund has been set up but I have seen on twitter a lot of people donating to Help for Heroes Technical Difficulties . I'm going to make a donation.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

mollydog07 said:


> LADIES! I.M A BIT EMOTIONAL! guess u are too! got up at 8am seen this boys body on sky news. lets do something positive for lee eh? he has a family...can we help? anyone near lee.s family?


Hes not a boy, do stop calling him that


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Spirited said:


> Now we're delving into semantics.
> 
> So far no one has accepted these "scumbags" reasons. Actually, Muslim's have denounced the act and are actively distancing themselves from the two.
> 
> ...


I *did* say I didn't agree with the point  - but it was still a valid point to throw into a discussion and directly related to the case in hand, so didn't think it was fair that the poster was slated for making it.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Hes not a boy, do stop calling him that


eh? ok tinkerbell he is a boy to me. chill


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> I *did* say I didn't agree with the point  - but it was still a valid point to throw into a discussion and directly related to the case in hand, so didn't think it was fair that the poster was slated for making it.


I knew what your intention was. That's why I approached the answer the way I did and why I still think the quip was unjust and inflammatory given the reason for this thread and emotions that are high. 

(found out the hard way bout how things are taken at times like this  )



Royoyo said:


> I don't think a fund has been set up but I have seen on twitter a lot of people donating to Help for Heroes Technical Difficulties . I'm going to make a donation.


Thanks for that. Had no idea. Not heard anything till your post.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Well I was going to make a donation but I can't seem to get on the site now  I think there must be so many people donating that it's messed it up!


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

good night pf.s me n my bears going to bed,,,my wee molly 8 today! so chuffed with her! median survival rate 6 months,,,,still have her a year later! behave be nice!


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

mollydog07 said:


> chill


Irony

I'm the calmest person in this whole topic


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Irony
> 
> I'm the calmest person in this whole topic


hahahaha
thanks I needed that.

:biggrin5:


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Irony
> 
> I'm the calmest person in this whole topic


nite tinkerbell


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> No dude, it's called making a point
> 
> And that point is, that ALL killing is bad, even when you put a uniform on someone, give them a gun and pay them, it's still wrong


Luckily, people _did_ put on a uniform and kill people, just so _you_ have the right and priviledge to post that.

Maybe take a step back and think about what life _could_ be like if this country _didn't_ have any armed forces.

If this country had just waved a white flag and sat back and took what was coming our way in the two word wars - you really think you would be sat behind your computer safe in the knowledge you'd be allowed to post your opinion with no come back?

In fact, if we had no armed forces, you wouldn't even have to wonder if they would be knocking at your door - you wouldnt be around to have the chance to post anything.

The disabled were one of the groups of people Hitler deemed 'unworthy' - but luckily we _do_ have armed forces, so you _are _able to post your opinion.

I just think its totally disrespectful for you to sit there saying how terrible it is for people in uniform to kill people, when if it wasn't for those very people, you wouldn't even be here.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

anyone who can give a direct donating line to lee please let us know,i,m not internet minded,thanx...possibly post it on dog chat....and all other forums! x


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## LJLilley (Jun 16, 2012)

I couldn't agree with you more MCWillow.

In regards to capital punishment, regardless of whether or not the general public want it brought back it will never happen. Human rights gone mad, too many objections, too many what if's for it to be brought back. 

So realistically a good hard look at the state of our prisons would be the next thing to ask for surely? It's pretty clear that prison is no longer a punishment as such but a free ride with sky tv and human rights screamed whenever something doesn't go the right way for any prisoner. The point of prison seems to have been lost somewhere along the line and now murderers getting life are out of prison after however long and allowed to rebuild their life or re-offend. 

I'd rather see harsher prisons, where hard graft is their day to day lives, and life in prison meaning just that.


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

LJLilley said:


> I couldn't agree with you more MCWillow.
> 
> In regards to capital punishment, regardless of whether or not the general public want it brought back it will never happen. Human rights gone mad, too many objections, too many what if's for it to be brought back.
> 
> ...


Justice Secretary Chris Grayling is finalising a series of measures to toughen up jails amid concerns that life inside has become too soft.

He has also vowed to put an end to holiday camp prisons, with a ban on Sky TV, fewer television sets and less pocket money for inmates.

Mr Grayling believes prisoners do not deserve the kind of lifestyle that is beyond the reach of many families on low wages.

Under Mr Graylings plans, seen as the biggest shake-up of Britains prisons for 60 years, it will become harder for inmates to earn perks.

Ministers are planning to increase the threshold of good behaviour, requiring prisoners to enroll in education courses to receive the privileges.

Thousands of inmates could also be forced to wear prison uniform rather than their own clothes.

Tory MP Priti Patel said a tough approach was needed to make prisoners fit for the real world.

We have to reform the whole prison regime full stop, she said.

Rehabilitation has not been happening and axing automatic perks is a step in the right direction.
Link


----------



## LJLilley (Jun 16, 2012)

Spirited said:


> Justice Secretary Chris Grayling is finalising a series of measures to toughen up jails amid concerns that life inside has become too soft.
> 
> He has also vowed to put an end to holiday camp prisons, with a ban on Sky TV, fewer television sets and less pocket money for inmates.
> 
> ...


I sincerely hope that this is pulled off, it's about time to be honest.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> So soldiers then.......


OMG get a grip love....do you really think the [email protected] you talk or do you just enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing.... so spout any BS to cause aggro


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

chichi said:


> OMG get a grip love....do you really think the [email protected] you talk or do you just enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing.... so spout any BS to cause aggro


What I'm saying is not BS

soldiers kill innocent people yes?


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind 

RIP Lee


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm sure soldiers (who quite often return depressed and commit suicide) would love to be compared to religious fanatics who butchered a man to death in the middle of the street for fun. 

I'm pretty sure no soldiers from any country kill for fun.....

Do I agree with war? No. But if it wasn't for our soldiers none of us may be here at all. Have some respect Tink, I remember why I had you blocked now.:frown2:


----------



## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Spirited said:


> Justice Secretary Chris Grayling is finalising a series of measures to toughen up jails amid concerns that life inside has become too soft.
> 
> He has also vowed to put an end to holiday camp prisons, with a ban on Sky TV, fewer television sets and less pocket money for inmates.
> 
> ...


Fingers crossed,

I know someone who went to prison and they had a better life than on the outside, rent free, chocolate deserts after meals, sky TV and there was even a pool table, yes it wasn't a maximum security prison but it was still a punishment, well, no punishment really.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> I'm pretty sure no soldiers from any country kill for fun.


With respect, no one kills for fun except perhaps deviant serial killers.

A poor choice of wording I accept.

However, without wishing or wanting to deviate from this thread and trivialise the loss of an innocent young man, adding further pain to a family needlessly suffering, I would like to remind you your statement is not correct.

Here's three random examples of needless slaughter from history.

Siege of Drogheda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ludlow Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All killing serves no purpose other than to anger the victim's relatives and for them to seek equal retribution.

Man has yet to learn he is a civilised animal but all the while he lives within his own primitive tribes that lesson is long to be realised.

For the sake of a handful of iniquitous men we find the need to sacrifice untold thousands.

How brutal. How futile.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I don't think the death penalty is the answer. This is exactly what extremists want: martyrdom. Let them rot in jail and think about what they have done. I don't think they will have an easy life in prison after what they have done. They will have to be isolated from the other inmates for one thing because of possible retribution. Their freedom is gone, they have no support from the general public, the lives of their families have been ruined. And lots of time to think about whether it was worth it after all.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> What I'm saying is not BS
> 
> soldiers kill innocent people yes?


Why do you always have to be so thoroughly unpleasant? There is a time and a place for your inane "opinions" and this is not it. Not everything is about you, you know?


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Hes not a boy, do stop calling him that


Does it really matter what people call him, wrong thread to start getting uppity with anyone. My sons are 22 and 25 and i say the boys not just because ime their mother i say it their friends as well.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

mollydog07 said:


> I agreed with your post as its another opinion.i dont agree with our troops in afghanistan,janice this was england! not a warzone! this boys death was a liberty taking....lad out in his help for heroes t shirt walking out the barracks.run over with a motor then stabbed and marcheted to death.


*And is England, or should it be , untouchable?
Example, we are/ maybe already, talking about arming the rebels in Syria. Now if we do this, would you think those that the rebels are fighting would have no reason to come to this country and carry out attacks?
Again, i will make it clear, I DON'T agree with such actions, but can i understand them? yes i can.
I bet if we sent all the politicians to fight all these wars, we wouldn't have so many.*


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> You're wrong on two points here
> 
> *1) they are humans*
> 
> ...


They are not humans

Hang em high, in public, better yet, hang draw and quarter them, put their heads on poles for all to see as a warning to others

but the cops should have chopped them down in the street instead of winging them, poor shooting id say


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Spirited said:


> It also says an eye for eye.
> For a book that dictates that folks shouldnt kill, have you ever looked up how many millions have been killed in the name of religion? .


It also says: Turn the other cheek:

How turning the other cheek defies oppression
By Walter Wink
4 May 2009

You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if anyone would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. (Jesus in Matthew 5:38-41, Revised Standard Version

How turning the other cheek defies oppression | Ekklesia

The above link explains why I feel as I do and why I do not agree with capital punishment.

------------


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> They are not humans
> 
> Hang em high, in public, better yet, hang draw and quarter them, put their heads on poles for all to see as a warning to others
> 
> but the cops should have chopped them down in the street instead of winging them, poor shooting id say


*I take it you would say the same to British or American soldiers that have committed unspeakable crimes?*


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> It also says: Turn the other cheek:
> 
> How turning the other cheek defies oppression
> By Walter Wink
> ...


The UK allows these people to come here, settle, prosper with work (maybe with benefits) and give them a safe environment - as we always have - and NOW, after one our own is hacked to bits in the street, we should forgive what happened and offer the other cheek?...

really?

:mad2:

you turn yours if you want


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

*We already prosecute when an offence has been committed, have we hacked anyone to bits in the street?*

if the lad in question had been your son would you be so forgiving?


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Enoch Powell, Rivers of Blood - YouTube


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> *We already prosecute when an offence has been committed, have we hacked anyone to bits in the street?*
> 
> if the lad in question had been your son would you be so forgiving?


*I have stated more than once, i do NOT agree with what happened, and it's bloody evil.
But if you think our troops are squeeky clean, you are wrong.
Just to add, i am not tarring all our troops as bad.*


----------



## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> *We already prosecute when an offence has been committed, have we hacked anyone to bits in the street?*
> 
> if the lad in question had been your son would you be so forgiving?


To be fair, nobody is asking anyone to "forgive", but the question being asked is about capital punishment. The killers are in custody and will be facing the full extent of the law as it stands. Nobody is denying it is a heinous crime.


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> They are not humans
> 
> Hang em high, in public, better yet, hang draw and quarter them, put their heads on poles for all to see as a warning to others
> 
> but the cops should have chopped them down in the street instead of winging them, poor shooting id say


hmy: Your bloodthirstiness and advocacy for such violent measures are almost as disturbing as the atrocities committed by these two murderers :scared:


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> It also says: Turn the other cheek:
> 
> You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if anyone would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. (Jesus in Matthew 5:38-41, Revised
> 
> ...


The Bible is a quirky work. You can find verses to support just about any argument.

Matthew 10:34-36

King James Version (KJV)

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (Jesus)

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth as long as you turn the other cheek in the midst of some intentionally induced upheaval.

All that aside, I respect your opinion on what you think is right. If you don't believe in a putting a person to death for taking the rest of someone else's life from them that's your right to do so.
It's differing opinions that make the world go round.


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> The UK allows these people to come here, settle, prosper with work (maybe with benefits) and give them a safe environment - as we always have - and NOW, after one our own is hacked to bits in the street, we should forgive what happened and offer the other cheek?...
> 
> really?
> 
> ...


You obviously couldn't be arsed to read the article.

So...just in cased you missed it accidently: http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/9385

And... if you think that reacting to violence with more violence solves anything then you couldn't be more wrong.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> I have stated more than once, i do NOT agree with what happened, and it's bloody evil.
> But if you think our troops are squeeky clean, you are wrong.
> Just to add, i am not tarring all our troops as bad.


Our troops (any troops) will do as told, and do what is required, and what is needed to survive, "he who shoots last may never shoot again"

"We" pay them to do the dirty work

If you could hold fire when being shot at, hold your temper after seeing comrades shot or maimed, a relative was in the forces in Bosnia, the temptation to wreak retribution for the atrocities committed on civilians was strong in many cases


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> The UK allows these people to come here, settle, prosper with work (maybe with benefits) and give them a safe environment - as we always have - and NOW, after one our own is hacked to bits in the street, we should forgive what happened and offer the other cheek?...
> 
> really?
> 
> ...


Why do you have to turn everything into a racist rant? Just who are "these people" you are ranting on about that the UK supposedly lets come here?

Certainly not the two scumbags who perpetrated this horrific crime - they were *born* here. Furthermore, they were born into *Christian* families and took the decision to convert to Islam when they were adults - just as you or I or anyone else born in England can choose which religion they follow.

What they did was dreadful - but they were extremists and not representative of the religion they chose to follow . And the atrocity they committed certainly does not warrant racist rants against all followers of Islam or all immigrants.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> Our troops (any troops) will do as told, and do what is required, and what is needed to survive, "he who shoots last may never shoot again"
> 
> "We" pay them to do the dirty work
> 
> If you could hold fire when being shot at, hold your temper after seeing comrades shot or maimed, a relative was in the forces in Bosnia, the temptation to wreak retribution for the atrocities committed on civilians was strong in many cases


*You obviously only believe what you want to. You need to have an open mind and look at the situation again.
As for us paying them to do the dirty work, in this day and age, they do it by choice.*


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

string em up from the nearest tree

next to April Jones killer


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> string em up from the nearest tree
> 
> next to April Jones killer


*And if that happened, you honestly believe it would make things better? No , it would just cause more hatred and more killing.*


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> Hang em high, in public, better yet, hang draw and quarter them, put their heads on poles for all to see as a warning to others


For as much as I'd like to see justice served on those who committed this most heinous of crime's, the above attitude is exactly what I spoke of earlier.

The primitive voice of primitive man spreading the war cry.

It solves nothing but to stir up social unrest in his own tribe and for those who are unable to think for themselves to join forces with who they are better able to relate with.

Albert Pierrepoint saw more than 400 people to his gallows and confessed the death penalty served no purpose because it proved to be no deterrent.

Although we still carry out the death sentence in many parts of the world, the vacated cell on death row is soon occupied by another condemend to be executed for crimes abhorrent to society.

Do I think there's a solution we'd all be satisfied with?

No.

Not until we learn that the primitive man within us has no rightful place in modern day society.

Scorn my simplicity if you wish.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

They specifically targetted a member of our armed forces and preach hatred and threats to the country so personally I feel they should be charged with treason. Unfortunately that no longer carries the death penalty either, according to what I have read it did until the late 90's but Labour finally stopped that.

For those who believe all killing is wrong - if armed police had happened to be already at the scene whilst those two savages were butchering the young man, can you still say it would be wrong to shoot to kill if they were in a position to save Lee's life


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> They specifically targetted a member of our armed forces and preach hatred and threats to the country so personally I feel they should be charged with treason. Unfortunately that no longer carries the death penalty either, according to what I have read it did until the late 90's but Labour finally stopped that.
> 
> For those who believe all killing is wrong - if armed police had happened to be already at the scene whilst those two savages were butchering the young man, can you still say it would be wrong to shoot to kill if they were in a position to save Lee's life


*Had the police been there when this evil crime was being committed, then i say they would have has every right to shoot the 2 guys. The reason i say this is, because they are there to protect our streets. *


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Had the police been there when this evil crime was being committed, then i say they would have has every right to shoot the 2 guys. The reason i say this is, because they are there to protect our streets. *


And I think most people would agree - in fact we would be pretty horrified if they didn't. But why is it acceptable to shoot to kill if caught whilst committing the act, but not to execute them after the event? Fairly sure they would both do it again if they had the opportunity so its still protecting our streets, long term


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Spirited said:


> It also says an eye for eye.
> For a book that dictates that folks shouldnt kill, have you ever looked up how many millions have been killed in the name of religion?
> 
> The way our system is set up with nearly inexhaustible appeals a person put on death row spends an avg 15 years waiting to be executed.


In the NAME of religion, countless people. It's very easy to hid behind it to justify your cruel actions.
You are referring to the Old Testament which was written in its historical context. Jesus told us to love our enemies, or did you miss that bit as it doesn't tie in?



tinktinktinkerbell said:


> So soldiers then.......





paddyjulie said:


> You are one horrible ****** upped person


Nothing like the truth to brighten your day! Solsiers can and do can innocents on a regular basis



Colliebarmy said:


> Our troops (any troops) will do as told, and do what is required, and *what is needed to survive, "he who shoots last may never shoot again"*
> "We" pay them to do the dirty work
> 
> If you could hold fire when being shot at, hold your temper after seeing comrades shot or maimed, a relative was in the forces in Bosnia, the temptation to wreak retribution for the atrocities committed on civilians was strong in many cases


And what did these unarmed civilians do exactly? Why were the familes of Bloody Sunday offered blood money?








*The report, which took 12 years to complete at a cost of £195m, was heavily critical of the army and found that soldiers killed people without justification. It concluded that none of the victims were armed, that soldiers gave no warnings before opening fire and that the shootings were a "catastrophe" for Northern Ireland, leading to increased violence in subsequent years*

or what about this wee boy?
British soldier jailed for stabbing 10-year-old Afghan boy - Telegraph

Im not justifying those animals in the slightest but you CANNOT brutalise and invade people and not expect them to fight back


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> For those who believe all killing is wrong - if armed police had happened to be already at the scene whilst those two savages were butchering the young man, can you still say it would be wrong to shoot to kill if they were in a position to save Lee's life


As I said, I believe that if someone commits a crime against society then they lose all righs within that society - and if the only way to save a life and stop them committing that crime is to shoot them dead, then that is acceptable to me. It's a question of balance - if the choice is saving the victim or the attackers then the victim has to take precedence.

But that is different to killing the attackers afterwards - that would not save the victim and hence it would be much better imo that the attackers should be punished - severely and continuously for the rest of their natural lives - rather than be killed.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> And I think most people would agree - in fact we would be pretty horrified if they didn't. But why is it acceptable to shoot to kill if caught whilst committing the act, but not to execute them after the event? Fairly sure they would both do it again if they had the opportunity so its still protecting our streets, long term


*If they were shot whilst committing the crime, it's a bit like self defence. ( if that makes sense ).
If killed after the event, it would be like murder.
lol i know what i mean.*


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

koekemakranka said:


> To be fair, nobody is asking anyone to "forgive", but the question being asked is about capital punishment. The killers are in custody and will be facing the full extent of the law as it stands. Nobody is denying it is a heinous crime.


/agreed

I am another who cannot forgive such a heinous crime. I will not sink to these murderers level by giving their maniacal ravings credence, by taking their life, I personally couldn't do it so I wouldn't ask someone else to do it on my behalf.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *If they were shot whilst committing the crime, it's a bit like self defence. ( if that makes sense ).
> If killed after the event, it would be like murder.
> lol i know what i mean.*





Supasilvfoxy said:


> /agreed
> 
> I am another who cannot forgive such a heinous crime. I will not sink to these murderers level by giving their maniacal ravings credence, by taking their life, I personally couldn't do it so I wouldn't ask someone else to do it on my behalf.


I understand both your replies but its still a sort of double standard - we expect our armed police to kill if it fits one set of beliefs and the outcome is the same whether executed at the scene or after the event.

The argument agains capital punishment has always been getting the wrong person for the crime - there is no doubt in this case is there


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> I understand both your replies but its still a sort of double standard - we expect our armed police to kill if it fits one set of beliefs and the outcome is the same whether executed at the scene or after the event.
> 
> The argument agains capital punishment has always been getting the wrong person for the crime - there is no doubt in this case is there


True, that is the main argument against capital punishment so is the one most often quoted. However, another argument is that someone has got to carry out the execution, that makes that person a 'murderer' (not in the criminal sense of the word) but a person that takes another persons life. Like I said in my reply, I couldnt do it so I could not and will not ask someone else to do it on my behalf, I could not in all honesty carry that burden on my conscience, so I have to say I cannot support capital punishment.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> I understand both your replies but its still a sort of double standard - we expect our armed police to kill if it fits one set of beliefs and the outcome is the same whether executed at the scene or after the event.
> 
> The argument agains capital punishment has always been getting the wrong person for the crime - there is no doubt in this case is there


*Actually i think i'm right in saying, these 2 guys were shot after they had killed that young man. But they were still armed and as such were still a threat to other people on the streets. I don't think the police had any other choice.
Now had they thrown down their weapons and surrendered, then i don't think the police would have been right to shoot them.*


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> I understand both your replies but its still a sort of double standard - we expect our armed police to kill if it fits one set of beliefs and the outcome is the same whether executed at the scene or after the event.


I disagree - I think the outcome is different.

First scenario:
An attacker is shot whilst police try to save a victim

Outcome:
An attacker was killed by someone authorised by society to kill him as the only way of saving a life.

Second scenario:
An attacker is tried, found guilty and executed

Outcome:
An attacker was killed by society as a pre-meditated murder that is legal because it has been endorsed by society for certain crimes within that society.



DoodlesRule said:


> The argument agains capital punishment has always been getting the wrong person for the crime - there is no doubt in this case is there


That is only one of the arguments against capital punishment - there are many more.

There is certainly there is no doubt in this case that the attackers are guilty - but what of the extremist teachers who preached the hate and who brainwashed them into believing they were acting for Allah? Are they not guilty too? What sort of punishment should they face?


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Spirited said:


> The Bible is a quirky work. You can find verses to support just about any argument.
> 
> Matthew 10:34-36
> 
> ...


So...you mean it's alright for you to quote the bible: i.e. "An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth" to back your argument but it's not alright for me to quote it? Double standards imo.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> True, that is the main argument against capital punishment so is the one most often quoted. However, another argument is that someone has got to carry out the execution, that makes that person a 'murderer' (not in the criminal sense of the word) but a person that takes another persons life. Like I said in my reply, I couldnt do it so I could not and will not ask someone else to do it on my behalf, I could not in all honesty carry that burden on my conscience, so I have to say I cannot support capital punishment.


I don't like hurting peoples feelings let alone killing someone but in all honesty if it was my son butchered by those savages then I could fire the bullet



Spellweaver said:


> I disagree - I think the outcome is different.
> 
> First scenario:
> An attacker is shot whilst police try to save a victim
> ...


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> The UK allows these people to come here, settle, prosper with work (maybe with benefits) and give them a safe environment - as we always have - and NOW, after one our own is hacked to bits in the street, we should forgive what happened and offer the other cheek?...
> 
> really?
> 
> ...


But the two were born here in the UK  they were our OWN as you call them ???

Stop tarring everyone with the same brush!!!!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> But the two were born here in the UK  they were our OWN as you call them ???
> 
> Stop tarring everyone with the same brush!!!!


I agree - whilst I advocate the death penalty for them its nothing to do with the colour of their skin or whatever religeon or politial beliefs they happen to have, it is for what they have done


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Ok i'm being thick here, but it was just said on the radio they were both of Nigerian origin, does that mean they were born in Nigeria or their parents were Nigerian?
Yes i'm having a blonde moment.*


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok i'm being thick here, but it was just said on the radio they were both of Nigerian origin, does that mean they were born in Nigeria or their parents were Nigerian?
> Yes i'm having a blonde moment.*


Think I read that one of them was born in the UK, family from Nigeria, the other was born there & family from there and subsequently moved to the UK


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> I don't like hurting peoples feelings let alone killing someone but in all honesty if it was my son butchered by those savages then I could fire the bullet


That would be in mitigating circumstances and I for one would feel your pain, I could not condemn you for acting so. God forbid I will never be put to the test, as I honestly cannot say what I would do if I was in the same circumstances and my daughters life was taken so. My gut reaction would be to act as you, but I would probably feel so guilty at what I had done, I probably couldn't live with myself after.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok i'm being thick here, but it was just said on the radio they were both of Nigerian origin, does that mean they were born in Nigeria or their parents were Nigerian?
> Yes i'm having a blonde moment.*


I was under the assumption their parents are from Nigeria but they or at least one were born in the UK


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

'Basic human nature simply does not allow you to cheer on your government as it carries out massive violence in multiple countries around the world and then have you be completely immune from having that violence returned.'

'I am outraged that we can't kill people in other counties without them trying to kill us!'

Source: Was the London killing of a British soldier 'terrorism'? | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

OP. No-one is condoning what happened in Woolwich, but to play devils advocate, why do you think these 2 men should be put to death but not our politicians and (dare I say) our soldiers who also kill?


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> That would be in mitigating circumstances and I for one would feel your pain, I could not condemn you for acting so. God forbid I will never be put to the test, as I honestly cannot say what I would do if I was in the same circumstances and my daughters life was taken so. My gut reaction would be to act as you, but I would probably feel so guilty at what I had done, I probably couldn't live with myself after.


In all honesty if my son had died like that I really would not want to continue living. To be killed on active duty, to be killed in a tragic accident or due to illness must be hard to bear but to have seen all the images, heard all the reports and its your child/loved one ......................


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Grace_Lily said:


> 'Basic human nature simply does not allow you to cheer on your government as it carries out massive violence in multiple countries around the world and then have you be completely immune from having that violence returned.'
> 
> 'I am outraged that we can't kill people in other counties without them trying to kill us!'
> 
> ...


They lived in our country and benefited from the UK's hospitality - if they disagree with what our armed forces are instructed to do, way of life, beliefs, religion of their host nation then they should move to the country their loyalties lie with and join their armed forces in fighting the so called oppressors in a war.

They are cowards who instead chose to commit a savage act of butchery on an unarmed man in a civilian street. They were not fighting a war they were slaughtering a lone man


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> They lived in our country and benefited from the UK's hospitality - if they disagree with what our armed forces are instructed to do, way of life, beliefs, religion of their host nation then they should move to the country their loyalties lie with and join their armed forces in fighting the so called oppressors in a war.
> 
> They are cowards who instead chose to commit a savage act of butchery on an unarmed man in a civilian street. They were not fighting a war they were slaughtering a lone man


'Our' country. You do realise these men are British born? It is their country as much as it is ours.

I disagree with what our armed forces do at the moment. Doesn't mean I have to be evicted from my own country leaving behind my family and support system.

Far more than one lone man are killed in other countries on the orders of our government. Do non white people who are killed not count?


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Grace_Lily said:


> 'Our' country. You do realise these men are British born? It is their country as much as it is ours.
> 
> I disagree with what our armed forces do at the moment. Doesn't mean I have to be evicted from my own country leaving behind my family and support system.
> 
> Far more than one lone man are killed in other countries on the orders of our government. Do non white people who are killed not count?


One was born here I believe after his family came over from Nigeria, the other was born in Nigeria and came over later. It is their country too because they were allowed to live here.

Do you hack people to death in the street? Presumably not so you are more than welcome here

My post was not a "go back" comment it was if you hate the country you are living in and feel you are fighting a war for some other nation that you prefer their way of life well go and live there and fight a war like a real man as a soldier in their army not butchering unarmed people in the street.

If you read other posts you will see it is nothing to do with the colour of their skin - I would feel the sam whatever colour they are, whatever religeon


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Grace_Lily said:


> 'Our' country. You do realise these men are British born? It is their country as much as it is ours.


*But they dont see the UK as their homeland, just a place to squat and take over*

I remember the cricket debacle a few years ago, UK born asians supporting India and Pakistan....when they had never been out of the UK...but happy enough to prosper here


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> whilst I advocate the death penalty for them it is for what they have done.


I fully understand everything you say and, I suppose in some twisted reality, if it had been a son of mine they had callously butchered in cold blood I too would be so incensed and outraged that I'd probably want to throw them alive and kicking to my dogs.

But I wonder to what end?

A medium to exercise and vent my anger?

I might find some momentary satisfaction in their brutal killing but, ultimately, their equally cruel end would not bring my son back to me and, therefore, the weight of my own grief would not be lessened any.

Everyday of my life would be an unbearable sufferance.

Surely then it's better to have them punished for the rest of their lives and for them to serve everyday of that time with the accompanying knowledge that the entire world loathes their very existence and would, if they were no better than they, end their miserable existence in the blink of an eye.

As I've stated earlier, there is no one single solution that would be agreeable to everyone and I don't suppose there ever will be.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> *I remember the cricket debacle a few years ago, UK born asians supporting India and Pakistan....when they had never been out of the UK...but happy enough to prosper here*


How very dare they!!!!! you get the pitch forks, I will gather the mob.....

Can we take out the Man Utd supporters who have never been to Manchester as well?

FFS CB, Its hardly comparable to this is it?


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Grace_Lily said:


> 'Basic human nature simply does not allow you to cheer on your government as it carries out massive violence in multiple countries around the world and then have you be completely immune from having that violence returned.'
> 
> 'I am outraged that we can't kill people in other counties without them trying to kill us!'
> 
> ...


 I agree. I understand but feel very sad it happened and for the family who are deeply grieving.

If we put these men to death we would have to do the same with our soldier's who killed innocent people knowing full well what they were doing. Murder is murder regardless who you are. I can't see any ifs and buts.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> *But they dont see the UK as their homeland, just a place to squat and take over*
> 
> I remember the cricket debacle a few years ago, UK born asians supporting India and Pakistan....when they had never been out of the UK...but happy enough to prosper here


What is wrong with that??

My OH is English - his parents Jamaican - he supports Jamaica in any sport they are in over England ...but does also support England - he is proud of his heritage and roots - he is proud to be black - even though he has only been there once in his whole life

Just because someone comes to live here or is born here but is of another culture/race does not mean they should denounce all that heritage and culture ...and be "English" people can embrace ALL sides of their culture and where they live - it is possible you know


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> What is wrong with that??
> 
> My OH is English - his parents Jamaican - he supports Jamaica in any sport they are in over England ...but does also support England - he is proud of his heritage and roots - he is proud to be black - even though he has only been there once in his whole life
> 
> Just because someone comes to live here or is born here but is of another culture/race does not mean they should denounce all that heritage and culture ...and be "English" people can embrace ALL sides of their culture and where they live - it is possible you know


But its not okay to kill British people in GB in the name of Allah or any other god. Anyone who believes it is okay to kill..attack..or basically target British people should F**k off to whatever Country they can practice their beliefs in without us hated British around them. But I guess such countries wont give them a cushty little life on benefits.

Anyone..regardless of colour..heritage..religion or anything else is more than welcome by me in this Country but when they start hating on the British Government and British people to the point of attacks..murder..terrorism..they have no place in this Country whatsoever.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

chichi said:


> But its not okay to kill British people in GB in the name of Allah or any other god. Anyone who believes it is okay to kill..attack..or basically target British people should F**k off to whatever Country they can practice their beliefs in without us hated British around them. But I guess such countries wont give them a cushty little life on benefits.
> 
> Anyone..regardless of colour..heritage..religion or anything else is more than welcome by me in this Country but when they start hating on the British Government and British people to the point of attacks..murder..terrorism..they have no place in this Country whatsoever.


*And there lays the problem.. The British government along with the USA have a lot to answer for.
How many countries are we going to go into before those countries start on ours?*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

chichi said:


> But its not okay to kill British people in GB in the name of Allah or any other god. Anyone who believes it is okay to kill..attack..or basically target British people should F**k off to whatever Country they can practice their beliefs in without us hated British around them. But I guess such countries wont give them a cushty little life on benefits.
> 
> Anyone..regardless of colour..heritage..religion or anything else is more than welcome by me in this Country but when they start hating on the British Government and British people to the point of attacks..murder..terrorism..they have no place in this Country whatsoever.


Well that goes without saying obviously - IMO its not okay to kill ANYONE for any reason other than self defence!!!

Im not and will never condone what happened they are sick individuals -

However people saying all Nig**S get back on your banana boat and all muslims eff off back to your own country which are just two of the lovely comments ive seen on FB over the last few days is not acceptable!! -its not the answer!!! - it seems for some this is the perfect excuse to spout absolute shite about innocent people and condemn them

2 radical extremists have committed this henious crime! NOT A WHOLE RACE!!!! - NOT A WHOLE RELIGION !!!!!

The mentality and ignorance I have seen in the last few days has astounded and saddened me.

What do you suggest we do then ?? just scrape up every black man woman and child every muslim every asian every nationality and just eff them off??? what exactly is that going to achieve???

This is from a young mix race relative of mine - some older people in this country could do with thinking a bit more wisely along these lines!!

"What a disgusting event that's happened today, it's clear people use religion for a mask in this warped world to commit there sick crimes! It's clear this is the act of a Psychotic individual! Not a terrorist attack. No one in the right mind would stand there with literal blood on there hands talking like its a everyday act if they were sane. And people are talkin about immigrant. the man clearly was a London citizen lets not make this a race, cultural or religious issue when it clearly is a issue of the mind!"

I will never condone what these men did - I hope they rot in hell - but I will also not tolerate the absolute ignorance that some english people have shown in the wake of this .


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supasilvfoxy View Post
That would be in mitigating circumstances and I for one would feel your pain, I could not condemn you for acting so. God forbid I will never be put to the test, as I honestly cannot say what I would do if I was in the same circumstances and my daughters life was taken so. My gut reaction would be to act as you, but I would probably feel so guilty at what I had done, I probably couldn't live with myself after.[unquote]



DoodlesRule said:


> In all honesty if my son had died like that I really would not want to continue living. To be killed on active duty, to be killed in a tragic accident or due to illness must be hard to bear but to have seen all the images, heard all the reports and its your child/loved one ......................


Sorry DoodlesRule, I made my response to your original post without thinking things through properly.

After given it much serious thought, I've come to the conclusion, I could not ever take a life in cold blood, even in revenge against someone who had taken the life of my precious daughter. The only way I could take a life would be in 'defence' of my daughter, if her life was actually threatened and I was there, in this instance I would defend her to the death, even if that meant killing another, this would be a mothers 'instinctive' thing to do. Killing her murderers after the act would not solve anything, it would not give her her life back.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> One was born here I believe after his family came over from Nigeria, the other was born in Nigeria and came over later. It is their country too because they were allowed to live here.
> 
> Do you hack people to death in the street? Presumably not so you are more than welcome here
> 
> ...


You are being pedantic. Their ancient heritages are irrelevant - they are British citizens. There are thousands of British citizens whose parents, grandparents or pet cat may not have been British, but they are and no amount of analysis of their family tree will take that away from them. British people are becoming a melting pot of different races and religions; only a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

What is really the difference between how they have butchered this unarmed man, and the way our government butchers thousands of unarmed, innocent civilians in their own countries? Killing is killing, both are equally abhorrent yet some people conveniently turn a blind eye to the massacres the British government are causing in other countries.

That was the point of my post.



Colliebarmy said:


> *But they dont see the UK as their homeland, just a place to squat and take over*
> 
> I remember the cricket debacle a few years ago, UK born asians supporting India and Pakistan....when they had never been out of the UK...but happy enough to prosper here


Well, check you out with your physic powers to read their minds!

How very dare people choose who to support in a bit of light hearted sport entertainment. I can't believe you have even brought something like that into the debate.



Blackcats said:


> I agree. I understand but feel very sad it happened and for the family who are deeply grieving.
> 
> If we put these men to death we would have to do the same with our soldier's who killed innocent people knowing full well what they were doing. Murder is murder regardless who you are. I can't see any ifs and buts.


Yes, I can't begin to imagine what the family are going through. No one deserves to die in such a way.

You have basically summarised my whole argument in your last two sentences, put far more eloquently than I ever could 



chichi said:


> But its not okay to kill British people in GB in the name of Allah or any other god. Anyone who believes it is okay to kill..attack..or basically target British people should F**k off to whatever Country they can practice their beliefs in without us hated British around them. But I guess such countries wont give them a cushty little life on benefits.
> 
> Anyone..regardless of colour..heritage..religion or anything else is more than welcome by me in this Country but when they start hating on the British Government and British people to the point of attacks..murder..terrorism..they have no place in this Country whatsoever.


Who has said it is okay for a British person to be killed? 
My grievance is British people are not more important than any other nationality, many who are facing daily attacks and murder at the hands of the British government. One of these men stated this murder was a retaliation for all the murders our government carries out. I don't agree with his logic, but I can understand it. I can understand a mentally unstable person retaliating in this way. Can't believe you have dragged benefits into this  Way to go with the presumption that these people even claimed a penny in benefits.

So you support what the British government are doing abroad? Mass killings in illegal wars? Women and children killed in their own country?

Those deaths are not any less important, disgusting and unacceptable than this one. As Blackcats has said, killing is killing, no ifs and buts.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

To those that have commented on my post I suggest you read it. Nowhere did I say that all Muslims should be packed off..nowhere did I say that anyone was saying what those vile scum did was okay....

Also the racism that *some* white British people have spouted is just vile. Equally I have seen comments on FB saying they are glad about what happened to the pig soldier


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

GraceLily I don't think it is understandable (to understand the actions of these men is in my view to excuse what they did). If you lived in a country where you did not agree with their regime say Korea or China would you hack people to death in the street 

My mothers family were originally from Ireland, its there in my roots but I did not support the IRA or blow people up to make some sort of stance against the government. Plus had I felt more aligned to Ireland and felt that was "my country and my people" I would have gone to live there instead of England


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Wow I can't even believe that some are trying to justify Lee Rigby's death????????? It makes me want to vomit that anyone would even try to defend or justify what these guys did............. I am astounded...  The poor guy is not even passed a day and the "fluffys" are defending them... No, no murder is justified, but I also wouldn't try and defend a murder or murders just to play "devils advocate".


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> GraceLily I don't think it is understandable (to understand the actions of these men is in my view to excuse what they did). If you lived in a country where you did not agree with their regime say Korea or China would you hack people to death in the street
> 
> My mothers family were originally from Ireland, its there in my roots but I did not support the IRA or blow people up to make some sort of stance against the government. Plus had I felt more aligned to Ireland and felt that was "my country and my people" I would have gone to live there instead of England


*Trouble is Doodles our troops are in these countries. So for many the option to go to that country isn't an option either.
As with NI i believe talking to other countries is the way forward. I believe the likes of Mo Mowlam did a great deal to getting peace in NI.*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

chichi said:


> To those that have commented on my post I suggest you read it. Nowhere did I say that all Muslims should be packed off..nowhere did I say that anyone was saying what those vile scum did was okay....
> 
> Also the racism that *some* white British people have spouted is just vile. Equally I have seen comments on FB saying they are glad about what happened to the pig soldier


I never said you did say those things hun - I said that they were some of the comments on my FB that I had read ....

Just to clear that up


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Wow I can't even believe that some are trying to justify Lee Rigby's death????????? It makes me want to vomit that anyone would even try to defend or justify what these guys did............. I am astounded...  The poor guy is not even passed a day and the "fluffys" are defending them... No, no murder is justified, but I also wouldn't try and defend a murder or murders just to play "devils advocate".


*Nobody is trying to justify what has happened to that poor young lad. But if you can't look at the why's and wherefors how do we move forward?*


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Also to add, I don't think we should be in Afghan but we are so I will support our troops who have to go. If you can liken members of any countrys armed forces fighting in battle to the scum who are physically happy to hack an unarmed man to death in the street then I really despair


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

I think its time we as a country stood up for ourselves! 

Did anyone see that guy on daybreak who was in a round about way condoning what those monsters did?

These monsters were under suspicion in the first place, how did they slip through the net? 
Should people who are under suspicion be allowed to walk our streets..they must have done something substantial to be under suspicion in the first place. 

Every person under suspicion, every extremist no matter their nationality they should be shipped off to a country where they have the laws that they wish to live by!


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> GraceLily I don't think it is understandable (to understand the actions of these men is in my view to excuse what they did). If you lived in a country where you did not agree with their regime say Korea or China would you hack people to death in the street
> 
> My mothers family were originally from Ireland, its there in my roots but I did not support the IRA or blow people up to make some sort of stance against the government. Plus had I felt more aligned to Ireland and felt that was "my country and my people" I would have gone to live there instead of England


We'll have to disagree on that one as I do understand that they have retaliated but I've strongly condemned what they did. I couldn't hack anyone to death regardless, but I can see why murders of people in the Middle East being allowed would be a catalyst for a mentally unstable person to attack in this way.

You, I or most of the population wouldn't carry out an attack like this because we aren't mentally unstable. In my opinion, these men must be very unwell psychologically to be able to murder someone like this. I do understand that seeing what the west do with no comeuppance could push someone over the edge.

Let's say British people are being murdered in their thousands by politicians and soldiers from Afghan, Pakistan, Iraq etc. Would we, as Brits, really just sit back and take that or would we retaliate? Tbh I'm surprised these retaliation attacks aren't far more common. Britain has a lot of blood on its hands.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Grace_Lily said:


> We'll have to disagree on that one as I do understand that they have retaliated but I've strongly condemned what they did. I couldn't hack anyone to death regardless, but I can see why murders of people in the Middle East being allowed would be a catalyst for a mentally unstable person to attack in this way.
> 
> You, I or most of the population wouldn't carry out an attack like this because we aren't mentally unstable. In my opinion, these men must be very unwell psychologically to be able to murder someone like this. I do understand that seeing what the west do with no comeuppance could push someone over the edge.
> 
> Let's say British people are being murdered in their thousands by politicians and soldiers from Afghan, Pakistan, Iraq etc. Would we, as Brits, really just sit back and take that or would we retaliate? Tbh I'm surprised these retaliation attacks aren't far more common. Britain has a lot of blood on its hands.


If the tables were turned i would like to think that the brittish people would have more common sense and realise that the troops were in our country to help stabilize the country.

They dont only blow up non muslims they blow up innocent people in their own country too! They are just fookin fruit loops!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Grace_Lily said:


> , these men must be very unwell psychologically to be able to murder someone like this.
> .


Brain washed more like!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Wow I can't even believe that some are trying to justify Lee Rigby's death????????? It makes me want to vomit that anyone would even try to defend or justify what these guys did............. I am astounded...  The poor guy is not even passed a day and the "fluffys" are defending them... No, no murder is justified, but I also wouldn't try and defend a murder or murders just to play "devils advocate".


Im in NO way justifying his death - it was an abhorent act!!! it fills me with anger and sadness - and I would NEVER defend these men EVER....

But I WILL defend innocent people

Sorry if that offends you

We could all sit here and rant and rave and be angry and full of hate but it achieves jack shite - questions need asking - IMO the most important ones WHY and WHO brainwashed them ?? the root cause needs weeding out - how that is done I just dont know


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Well that goes without saying obviously - IMO its not okay to kill ANYONE for any reason other than self defence!!!
> 
> Im not and will never condone what happened they are sick individuals -
> 
> ...


Suzy I could have repped you several times over on this thread if only the system would let me! Yet another exellent post from you!


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

harley bear said:


> If the tables were turned i would like to think that the brittish people would have more common sense and realise that the troops were in our country to help stabilize the country.
> 
> They dont only blow up non muslims they blow up innocent people in their own country too! They are just fookin fruit loops!


British & American politicians aren't invading to stabilize countries, but before we get into the multitude of reasons why politicians seek war to meet their own political agenda let's not forget we're talking about wars which are *illegal* in the first place. Wars that were 'justified' at the time with complete and utter lies.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *Nobody is trying to justify what has happened to that poor young lad. But if you can't look at the why's and wherefors how do we move forward?*


This young lad was someone child, someone partner, someone's Father, someones son, hacked to death and also they attempted to behead and disembowel him, they ran him over in the street and tried to do the above.. I have compassion, I feel sick thinking how he died, I thank god for the women who stood up to the scum who did this to him, I'm so glad he saw love and compassion and was protected in his final minutes by these fearless ladies, A DAY after his murder, I don't see how anyone can say they "understand" why it was done, and how it wasn't done more often.

If you have issue with how your country people are treated go help you country, don't be spineless B's like all terrorists are, it's like saying you understand the IRA bombings.................................

A day after a 25 year old boy was left to bleed to death on the street????


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> This young lad was someone child, someone partner, someone's Father, someones son, hacked to death and also they attempted to behead and disembowel him, they ran him over in the street and tried to do the above.. I have compassion, I feel sick thinking how he died, I thank god for the women who stood up to the scum who did this to him, I'm so glad he saw love and compassion and was protected in his final minutes by these fearless ladies, A DAY after his murder, I don't see how anyone can say they "understand" why it was done, and how it wasn't done more often.
> 
> If you have issue with how your country people are treated go help you country, don't be spineless B's like all terrorists are, it's like saying you understand the IRA bombings.................................
> 
> A day after a 25 year old boy was left to bleed to death on the street????


*I feel sick also, nobody, and i mean nobody deserves to die in such a way.
As for being spineless B's like all terrorists and go help your country, have you not understood anything?
People are taking this completely out of context.
From what i'm reading, it's ok for people to kill people, as long as it doesn't happen on our soil.
KILLING IS WRONG.
*


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm not defending these men for one moment. What they did was unforgivable and a horrific act. I understand and that doesn't mean I think it is right.

If a child was murdered and, say, the father caught the killer and killed him we would all say we understand.

The same way they killed an innocent person because so many of their people are killed. People who are innocent.

Doesn't make it right but we understand. It is empathy. Doesn't mean you agree.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Woolwich attack: Lee Rigby's family tell of grief over death of 'our hero' | UK news | guardian.co.uk

Woolwich attack: Outpouring of grief for murdered Lee Rigby as stream of strangers leave their tributes on street where he died | Mail Online

When I read the above now, now's not a time understand.

Other people have been arrest over Lee's Death his murder was already a terror suspect, so not a one off mentally ill man.

"Two men who allegedly slaughtered a soldier in a Woolwich street were known to security services, it emerged today.
David Cameron revealed that authorities were looking into what was already known about Drummer Lee Rigby's alleged killers, but it is not thought they were considered to be an immediate threat.
One of the men, believed to be Michael Adebolajo, is believed to have been arrested after he went to Somalia to join banned Islamist group al Ahabaab."


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Im in NO way justifying his death - it was an abhorent act!!! it fills me with anger and sadness - and I would NEVER defend these men EVER....
> 
> But I WILL defend innocent people
> 
> ...


Sorry Suzy I wasn't directing it at you at all. I totally understand where you coming from on every Muslim etc being tarred with the same brush and the racist comments. My apologies.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Blackcats said:


> I'm not defending these men for one moment. What they did was unforgivable and a horrific act. I understand and that doesn't mean I think it is right.
> 
> If a child was murdered and, say, the father caught the killer and killed him we would all say we understand.
> 
> ...


Then they should go fight "their" fight and not resort to terrorism.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Meezey said:


> This young lad was someone child, someone partner, someone's Father, someones son, hacked to death and also they attempted to behead and disembowel him, they ran him over in the street and tried to do the above.. I have compassion, I feel sick thinking how he died, I thank god for the women who stood up to the scum who did this to him, I'm so glad he saw love and compassion and was protected in his final minutes by these fearless ladies, A DAY after his murder, I don't see how anyone can say they "understand" why it was done, and how it wasn't done more often.
> 
> If you have issue with how your country people are treated go help you country, don't be spineless B's like all terrorists are, it's like saying you understand the IRA bombings.................................
> 
> A day after a 25 year old boy was left to bleed to death on the street????


I dont understand either !!! no one of sound mind does !! we are compassionate hun we truly are - but what do you suggest people now do??? just go around race/religion hating ?? I know lets go round all the mosques and set fire to them - lets go and stab a black man walking down the street cos he looks like one of the evil shits .....

Will that bring Lee back??


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Woolwich attack: Lee Rigby's family tell of grief over death of 'our hero' | UK news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Woolwich attack: Outpouring of grief for murdered Lee Rigby as stream of strangers leave their tributes on street where he died | Mail Online
> 
> ...


I still think they are sick in the mind - people convert to a different religion everyday - these men were not simply converted they were brainwashed - they were not of sound mind imo - and I am by no means saying that because of this brainwashing they are therefore exempt - far from it - but all of these banned groups need dealing with IMMEDIATELY - the authorities need to act on ANY information they have IMMEDIATELY - and they need to be tougher on Radical groups .....IMO - if one of these men had been arressted - why was he out on our streets????


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Sorry Suzy I wasn't directing it at you at all. I totally understand where you coming from on every Muslim etc being tarred with the same brush and the racist comments. My apologies.


NO need to apologise hun at all xxx


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont understand either !!! no one of sound mind does !! we are compassionate hun we truly are - but what do you suggest people now do??? just go around race/religion hating ?? I know lets go round all the mosques and set fire to them - lets go and stab a black man walking down the street cos he looks like one of the evil shits .....
> 
> Will that bring Lee back??


Think we overlapped there


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Think we overlapped there


Yeah think we did xx


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

the problem i have with it is that these men are just weapons created by religion. bringing back capital punishment just for them will make martyrs of them which will then be used by the REAL sick bastards to help brainwash more people to follow similar paths. Without religion this wouldn't happen (whoever heard of an athiest killing in the name of the beleif that there is no god?) and killing them wont fix that, on the contrary, it will further their cause.. Untill we start treating theistic faith as a mental illness and begin to purge that disease from the population i dont see how we can expect this kind of thing to ever stop.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Birmingham murder may have been racially motivated, say police | UK news | The Guardian

" A 75-year-old man stabbed to death yards from his home may have been targeted in a racially motivated attack, according to police.

Mohammed Saleem, who used a walking stick, was stabbed three times in the back as he returned home from prayers at his local mosque in Small Heath, Birmingham, on Monday night.

The blows were struck with such violence they penetrated to the front of his body.

The father of seven also had no defensive wounds in what has been described as a swift, vicious and cowardly attack by the man leading the murder investigation, Detective Superintendent Mark Payne of West Midlands police.

Officers want to trace a white man, aged 25-32, of medium height and build, spotted on CCTV footage running near the scene of the attack around the time it happened, just before 10.30pm.

Police also want to trace a seven-seat people carrier captured on CCTV, driving near the mosque with the two male occupants, both white and in their 30s, who are considered "significant witnesses".

In an emotional family appeal on Thursday, two of Saleem's daughters, Shazia Khan, 45, and Nazia Maqsood, 44, called for the attackers to hand themselves in. They tearfully described their father as a "widely respected member of the community" and "much-loved".
*
How much news coverage did this get? Just posted to balance things out.*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> Birmingham murder may have been racially motivated, say police | UK news | The Guardian
> 
> " A 75-year-old man stabbed to death yards from his home may have been targeted in a racially motivated attack, according to police.
> 
> ...


Well actually it got a hell of alot of local news coverage.

I also think there was more news coverage of wednesday because not only was the attack acrried out in the middle of the day they were shouting 'god is great' as they carried out the brutal attack. 
The attack was also carried out by people who were known to the police which would obviously cause more coverage.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

harley bear said:


> Well actually it got a hell of alot of local news coverage.
> 
> I also think there was more news coverage of wednesday because not only was the attack acrried out in the middle of the day they were shouting 'god is great' as they carried out the brutal attack.
> The attack was also carried out by people who were known to the police which would obviously cause more coverage.


*I have not seen it on the news or heard of it on the radio. I have only just seen it on FB.*


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> Birmingham murder may have been racially motivated, say police | UK news | The Guardian
> 
> " A 75-year-old man stabbed to death yards from his home may have been targeted in a racially motivated attack, according to police.
> 
> ...


It's hardly balancing things out is it....................... If this poor man had been killed in the same way Lee Rigby had then it would have got the same amount of coverage and why wouldn't it of had?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> It's hardly balancing things out is it....................... If this poor man had been killed in the same way Lee Rigby had then it would have got the same amount of coverage and why wouldn't it of had?


*The poor guy was butchered as was Lee. In a different way perhaps but that's splitting hairs.
My point is this, the police are looking for a white man..Now what do we want to do with this gut if and when he is caught? we can't turn round and say, " send him back to his own country.*


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *The poor guy was butchered as was Lee. In a different way perhaps but that's splitting hairs.
> My point is this, the police are looking for a white man..Now what do we want to do with this gut if and when he is caught? we can't turn round and say, " send him back to his own country.*


my thoughts are with this poor mans family and children and I hope they catch the scum who did this.

Lee Rigby was *HACKED to death, they ran him over and disemboweled and tried to decapitate him* that's not splitting hairs......................

BTW I have NEVER said anything about "returning" everyone to their own country or the colour of anyone's skin not once. You on the other hand are turning this in to a race thing.. read my post not something I've even said...

Take a look at racially motive fatalities in the UK if you want to make it about race:
Murders in the UK

How many of them received nation wide coverage irrespective if the victim was white or black?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> my thoughts are with this poor mans family and children and I hope they catch the scum who did this.
> 
> Lee Rigby was *HACKED to death, they ran him over and disemboweled and tried to decapitate him* that's not splitting hairs......................
> 
> ...


*Trust me, i do not want this to be about race, or colour.
But i do question why some get more media coverage than others.*


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *Trust me, i do not want this to be about race, or colour.
> But i do question why some get more media coverage than others.*


I believe because it was broad day light, there where lots of witness and the way he died, he wasn't simply just stabbed to death, and the other point I was making that racially motivated knife crime seems to be fairly common there now . If he'd of been a black member of the Armed forces it would be the same, I think how he was murdered has dragged this to the world media.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

I'm not making excuses or condoning anyone or anything, but this is how I see it. I think why Lee Rigby got national coverage and Mohamed Saleem didn't was:

1. Lee Rigby was a serving soldier and had been stationed in Afghanistan.
2. It happened in London in the middle of the day.
3. There was a video of the horrific deed where the murderers tried to justify the murder and his hands were still holding the murder weapons and they were covered in blood.
4. The nature of the attack was more sensational.
5. The press are a law unto themselves and make some decisions that are a mystery to the common man. 

IMO both murders were probably religiously/racially motivated so deserved the same coverage.


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## witchyone (Dec 16, 2011)

If those two low life scum of the earth do recover then I think they should be allowed to just walk out of hospital and see what awaits them,the same fate as Lee Rigby. And I hope they endure the same pain and suffering that they inflicted on both Lee and his family.
I wouldn't want to be one of the nursing staff that have to attend to these two vile murderers, I could not do it without wanting to make them suffer while they could not do anything to defend themselves, like they did to their victim.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

The consipirisists didn't take long. .

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/lond...-than-the-boston-bombing/#4hubeQhDU0cd9cvE.01


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *I have not seen it on the news or heard of it on the radio. I have only just seen it on FB.*


And what ????? Are you suggesting the whole Country doesnt give a sh1t then..cos they do. Stop fuelling racial hatred


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

chichi said:


> And what ????? Are you suggesting the whole Country doesnt give a sh1t then..cos they do. Stop fuelling racial hatred


*PLEASE read my posts.*


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Starlite said:


> The consipirisists didn't take long. .
> 
> London


New World Order nutbars...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Starlite said:


> The consipirisists didn't take long. .
> 
> London


That is the most stupid link I have EVER been 'daft' enough to click on


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *PLEASE read my posts.*


We did! they haven't altered


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> So...you mean it's alright for you to quote the bible: i.e. "An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth" to back your argument but it's not alright for me to quote it? Double standards imo.


Not at all.
If you look back I got called out because of a the THOU SHALT NOT KILL tenant in the book.
My response to you was that of being able to find a verse in the Bible to support any argument not that you were wrong for doing so.
Even told you I respect your opinion.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DT said:


> We did! they haven't altered


That's right - Jan's posts haven't altered in that they're still the same, level-headed, thought-provoking, compassionate posts they always are.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> That's right - Jan's posts haven't altered in that they're still the same, level-headed, thought-provoking, compassionate posts they always are.


your opinion!
Level headed my arse!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DT said:


> your opinion!


Yes - and?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *PLEASE read my posts.*


I have and its much the same as always...the Government is to blame for everything (in Janices world) and now you are trying to say white Brits dont give a crap about anyone but white brits and that is BS.

Its obvious why that story didnt make massive news at this time...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

chichi said:


> I have and its much the same as always...the Government is to blame for everything (in Janices world) and now you are trying to say white Brits dont give a crap about anyone but white brits and that is BS.
> 
> Its obvious why that story didnt make massive news at this time...


That's exactly what I meant when I posted!
EVERYTHING up with this country is down to the government (in the eyes of SOME)!


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

DT said:


> That's exactly what I meant when I posted!
> EVERYTHING up with this country is down to the government (in the eyes of SOME)!


The captain of the Titanic was responsible for the sinking of the ship.Not the lookouts or the stokers.
The same with Government.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

click said:


> The captain of the Titanic was responsible for the sinking of the ship.Not the lookouts or the stokers.
> The same with Government.


Before you blame the captain!
PLEASE remind me! which government first took us to war?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

click said:


> The captain of the Titanic was responsible for the sinking of the ship.Not the lookouts or the stokers.
> The same with Government.


Well technically if we going to be pedantic it was several people, including the designer, captain, white star line owner, the look outs..........


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Wow I can't even believe that some are trying to justify Lee Rigby's death????????? It makes me want to vomit that anyone would even try to defend or justify what these guys did............. I am astounded...  The poor guy is not even passed a day and the "fluffys" are defending them... No, no murder is justified, but I also wouldn't try and defend a murder or murders just to play "devils advocate".


I haven't read anywhere on here anyone justifying or defending what these maniacs did. To me the "fluffys" are those who blindly follow like sheep & adopt a mob mentality approach to anyone daring to offer an alternative opinion as is so often evidenced on here. I've cried yesterday watching the news footage of Lee's horrific death. Tears rolled down my face again today watching his poor family talking about him.

I don't however support the wars we have been involved in in recent years, hate how our politicians have lied to us and continue to do so and bitterly resent that our young men like Lee are the ones used as pawns whilst evil politicians remain unscathed. I don't condone any acts of terrorism and murder but do hate the double standards that are used when deciding which murders are justified and which are not and I DO understand why - to civilians of a growing number of countries around the world today - the USA, and by association the UK too, are seen as murderers & terrorists too.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tinder said:


> I don't however support the wars we have been involved in in recent years, hate how our politicians have lied to us and continue to do so and bitterly resent that our young men like Lee are the ones used as pawns whilst evil politicians remain unscathed. .


And neither do I! 
BUT! alas to me it seems to be our 'leaders' whichever party that may be, sucking up to the US and sending in our troops!
We are ! and ALWAYS will be an island, stuff em that's what I say!
BRING our troops back ALL of them and lets just concentrate on defending our own borders!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Yes - and?


and what????


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Tinder said:


> I haven't read anywhere on here anyone justifying or defending what these maniacs did. To me the "fluffys" are those who blindly follow like sheep & adopt a mob mentality approach to anyone daring to offer an alternative opinion as is so often evidenced on here. I've cried yesterday watching the news footage of Lee's horrific death. Tears rolled down my face again today watching his poor family talking about him.
> 
> I don't however support the wars we have been involved in in recent years, hate how our politicians have lied to us and continue to do so and bitterly resent that our young men like Lee are the ones used as pawns whilst evil politicians remain unscathed. I don't condone any acts of terrorism and murder but do hate the double standards that are used when deciding which murders are justified and which are not and I DO understand why - to civilians of a growing number of countries around the world today - the USA, and by association the UK too, are seen as murderers & terrorists too.


Neither do I, never said I did...


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

chichi said:


> I have and its much the same as always...the Government is to blame for everything (in Janices world) and now you are trying to say white Brits dont give a crap about anyone but white brits and that is BS.
> 
> Its obvious why that story didnt make massive news at this time...


*The governments are to blame. Who takes us into other countries? joe blogs? NO, our governments.
As for brits don't give a crap about anyone but white brits, where did you come up with that?*


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *The governments are to blame. Who takes us into other countries? joe blogs? NO, our governments.
> As for brits don't give a crap about anyone but white brits, where did you come up with that?*


I agree with you!
But which government were responsible on this occasion?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

DT said:


> I agree with you!
> But which government were responsible on this occasion?


Labour?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> Ladour?


you have got to be kidding me:yikes:


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DT said:


> and what????


DT stop it. I know you and Janice have deep-seated long-term problems with each other but I would like to be able to respond to both yours and her posts exactly how I like. I sometimes agree with things you say, and I sometimes agree with things Janice says. I sometimes disagree with things you say, and I sometimes disagree with things Janice says.

I would like to be able to continue to do this without you having a hissy fit and leaving silly messages on my wall about "taking sides" if I happen to agree with or support something Janice says.

Now can we get back to the debate in hand please?


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

DT said:


> I agree with you!
> But which government were responsible on this occasion?


Backed by the Tories but not the Lib Dems IMMSMR


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *The governments are to blame. Who takes us into other countries? joe blogs? NO, our governments.
> *


Agree!

Labour took us into Afghanistan and Iraq and the Tories still haven't pulled us out, plus the Tories helped al-qaeda take Libya and Ian Duncan smith wants to fund and arm al-Qaeda to help take over Syria

The government has to decide which side they are on, as bush said "we are either with the terrorists or against them"


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Neither do I, never said I did...


Maybe I've misunderstood why you posted that comment then? Sorry if I have. Maybe you could explain what you meant by people justifying Lee's death?

I thought it was in relation to people saying they understood where views like those of the 2 murderers came from? Same as me saying...



Tinder said:


> .. I DO understand why - to civilians of a growing number of countries around the world today - the USA, and by association the UK too, are seen as murderers & terrorists too.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *The governments are to blame. Who takes us into other countries? joe blogs? NO, our governments.
> As for brits don't give a crap about anyone but white brits, where did you come up with that?*


Our Government (one you cant really complain about as I dont believe you vote) are to blame for terrorists plotting to kill us...yeah course These terrorists are out and out sickos....dont blame the Government for the vile atrocities these individuals carry out!

You posted the link re an attack on a muslim man...to balance things up You dont need to balance anything up.....thanks.....


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> DT stop it. I know you and Janice have deep-seated long-term problems with each other but I would like to be able to respond to both yours and her posts exactly how I like. I sometimes agree with things you say, and I sometimes agree with things Janice says. I sometimes disagree with things you say, and I sometimes disagree with things Janice says.
> 
> I would like to be able to continue to do this without you having a hissy fit and leaving silly messages on my wall about "taking sides" if I happen to agree with or support something Janice says.
> 
> Now can we get back to the debate in hand please?


Val! you are wrong! I DONT have a problem with Jan, Jan was a good friend too me and admit we had a spat but for gods sake this is a forum and surely its time to let sleeping dogs lie! As far as I am concerned its over, done with , forgotton! And if jan would at least talk to me civil Id be the same!
And yep!!!! I left a message on you wall! because I dont do underhanded! 
never had an issue with you but was surprised as your post on the thread!
the balls in your court girls!
And! for the record! I NEVER left the debate.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DT said:


> Val! you are wrong! I DONT have a problem with Jan, Jan was a good friend too me and admit we had a spat but for gods sake this is a forum and surely its time to let sleeping dogs lie! As far as I am concerned its over, done with , forgotton! And if jan would at least talk to me civil Id be the same!
> And yep!!!! I left a message on you wall! because I dont do underhanded!
> never had an issue with you but was surprised as your post on the thread!
> the balls in your court girls!
> And! for the record! I NEVER left the debate.


*Correction, i have never been a good friend of yours.*


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Correction, i have never been a good friend of yours.*


Correction! in the early days you were CIVIL
Which is more then I can say now!
Well!! I tried!
you are obviously very bitter and twisted Jan!
sad lady


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

chichi said:


> Our Government (one you cant really complain about as I dont believe you vote) are to blame for terrorists plotting to kill us...yeah course These terrorists are out and out sickos....dont blame the Government for the vile atrocities these individuals carry out!
> 
> You posted the link re an attack on a muslim man...to balance things up You dont need to balance anything up.....thanks.....


*No i don't vote, and i've never made a secret of that. But i'll throw this at you. how many voted for this government? answer= none. So your point is?*


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DT said:


> Val! you are wrong! I DONT have a problem with Jan, Jan was a good friend too me and admit we had a spat but for gods sake this is a forum and surely its time to let sleeping dogs lie! As far as I am concerned its over, done with , forgotton! And if jan would at least talk to me civil Id be the same!
> And yep!!!! I left a message on you wall! because I dont do underhanded!
> never had an issue with you but was surprised as your post on the thread!
> the balls in your court girls!
> And! for the record! I NEVER left the debate.


Why were you so surprised? Surely you must know by now that I will not support racism in any shape or form. Janice quite rightly pointed out that a similar attack by a white man on a coloured man had happened around the same time and pointed out that people were not up in arms about that attack (a pretty horrific attack - he was stabbed several times) and were not baying for the white man's blood in the same way as they were baying for the blood of the murderers of Lee Rigby.

BOTH are horrific. BOTH are wrong. In BOTH cases the attackers are scum and deserve everything they will get and more. Along with most of the country I wept copious amounts when I watched the interview that Lee's family gave. You could feel their pain, pain that should never have had to be experienced. But the coloured man who was murdered will have family just as distraught, and yet no-one seems to care about that, People are not baying for the blood of _his_ attacker. Janice was pointing this out - so why are you so surprised, knowing how I feel about racism, that I agreed with and supported her post?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Why were you so surprised? Surely you must know by now that I will not support racism in any shape or form. Janice quite rightly pointed out that a similar attack by a white man on a coloured man had happened around the same time and pointed out that people were not up in arms about that attack (a pretty horrific attack - he was stabbed several times) and were not baying for the white man's blood in the same way as they were baying for the blood of the murderers of Lee Rigby.
> 
> BOTH are horrific. BOTH are wrong. In BOTH cases the attackers are scum and deserve everything they will get and more. Along with most of the country I wept copious amounts when I watched the interview that Lee's family gave. You could feel their pain, pain that should never have had to be experienced. But the coloured man who was murdered will have family just as distraught, and yet no-one seems to care about that, People are not baying for the blood of _his_ attacker. Janice was pointing this out - so why are you so surprised, knowing how I feel about racism, that I agreed with and supported her post?


But you are going off track now Val
Your post was directed at me!
so please don't dress it up as being racism/


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *No i don't vote, and i've never made a secret of that. But i'll throw this at you. how many voted for this government? answer= none. So your point is?*


My point is that you blame the Government for EVERYTHING from fart to earthquake..yet you dont vote.

You can throw what you like at me but it wont change a thing as to who is behind murdering extremists...they and their brainwashing leaders are behind their dispicable acts not the wet plops in Government......


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DT said:


> But you are going off track now Val
> Your post was directed at me!
> so please don't dress it up as being racism/


DT you've lost me now and I'm not continuing this nonsense any longer. If I support something Janice says it does not mean I'm "taking her side against you". If I support something you say it does not mean "I'm taking your side against her".

I'm going to continue to respond to both yours and Janice's posts in exactly the same way that I have always done. Live with it.


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

Going back to the thread title.

The death penalty would be no deterrent whatsoever to these fanatics.Just the opposite as shown by the ever increasing number willing to turn themselves into human bombs.
Personally I'd like to see them slaughtered out of hand.But that would be purely for revenge,it wouldn't alter anything.

A Somali terrorist group have warned Britain of further attacks and said today."Your chickens are coming home to roost" 

It makes you wonder then about a speech made by Cameron on May 7th affirming that Somalia would receive 145 million in foreign aid. I wonder where the money will finish up?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

chichi said:


> My point is that you blame the Government for EVERYTHING from fart to earthquake..yet you dont vote.
> 
> .


Aint that a fact!
the woman need sectioning! ( tried to make amends! honest!!!)
Think I might just dreg some parenting threads up!!! that may explain why some are so bitter and twisted!!!!!!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

This is all getting a bit deep and personal in here so I will off for now ..... but....

Spellweaver...the black and Asian people I know would be really p1ssed at being referred to as "coloured" ..... that is a definite no-no


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

chichi said:


> My point is that you blame the Government for EVERYTHING from fart to earthquake..yet you dont vote.
> 
> You can throw what you like at me but it wont change a thing as to who is behind murdering extremists...they and their brainwashing leaders are behind their dispicable acts not the wet plops in Government......


*Did you not read my reply? 
How do you think things would be if the leaders of this world fought their own battles?
People need to start thinking for themselves, the governments don't give a toss about the people.*


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> DT you've lost me now and I'm not continuing this nonsense any longer. If I support something Janice says it does not mean I'm "taking her side against you". If I support something you say it does not mean "I'm taking your side against her".
> 
> I'm going to continue to respond to both yours and Janice's posts in exactly the same way that I have always done. Live with it.


Whatever!
the facebook drums are beating me finks!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> DT you've lost me now and I'm not continuing this nonsense any longer. If I support something Janice says it does not mean I'm "taking her side against you". If I support something you say it does not mean "I'm taking your side against her".
> 
> I'm going to continue to respond to both yours and Janice's posts in exactly the same way that I have always done. Live with it.


*And i have the utmost respect for you, for doing so.*


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

chichi said:


> This is all getting a bit deep and personal in here so I will off for now ..... but....
> 
> Spellweaver...the black and Asian people I know would be really p1ssed at being referred to as "coloured" ..... that is a definite no-no


Strange that - the ones I know - and I know many - don't. Just like me, they don't kow-tow to all this pc rubbish - it's usually looked upon as a nonsense invented by the white anglo-saxon sandals and lentils mob.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

chichi said:


> This is all getting a bit deep and personal in here so I will off for now ..... but....
> 
> Spellweaver...the black and Asian people I know would be really p1ssed at sly!being referred to as "coloured" ..... that is a definite no-no


Exactly! my son in law is black!!!! my granddaughter obviously ,mixed , BUT prefers to be called BLACK!

its a no no Val!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DT said:


> Whatever!
> the facebook drums are beating me finks!


You are wrong. You know my name - contact me on facebook and I'll "friend" you and you can see for yourself - all this is taking place in your head, not in reality.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> Strange that - the ones I know - and I know many - don't. Just like me, they don't kow-tow to all this pc rubbish - it's usually looked upon as a nonsense invented by the white anglo-saxon sandals and lentils mob.


My ex fiance is black, and hates to be called coloured. Coloured was deemed to be PC, Black is what they are and what they chose to be called and are very proud to be called black. I've never know ANYONE in all my years wanting to be referred to as coloured :yikes:


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> Strange that - the ones I know - and I know many - don't. Just like me, they don't kow-tow to all this pc rubbish - it's usually looked upon as a nonsense invented by the white anglo-saxon sandals and lentils mob.


Well I do wear diamonte sandals (rather pretty they are too..even if I say so myself lol) but I was at school many years ago in an area that was mainly black and Asian populated and my friends were very intolerant of being labelled "coloured" ...and I still find the same today with black and Asian people..so I can only speak as I find


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Meezey said:


> My ex fiance is black, and hates to be called coloured. Coloured was deemed to be PC, Black is what they are and what they chose to be called and are very proud to be called black. I've never know ANYONE in all my years wanting to be referred to as coloured :yikes:


Thanks Meezey...for a minute there I thought I was living in the Twilight Zone


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## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

I think they should be tortured :angry:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Ffs grow up some of u .....

spellweaver is far from racist ....

We are all a colour ....so sue me ...im pink not white!!

some black people prefer black some prefer coloured ....whats that got to do with anything???

Really did feel for lees family tonite ....xxx


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

I thought this thread was about capital punishment? What's the next subject going to be,the good and bad bits on Top Gear maybe?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *And i have the utmost respect for you, for doing so.*


OK Jan! its obvious where this threads going! I'll bury the hatchet!
so why can't you!
Do you think you are special is some way?
Coz you aint!!!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chichi said:


> Well I do wear diamonte sandals (rather pretty they are too..even if I say so myself lol) but I was at school many years ago in an area that was mainly black and Asian populated and my friends were very intolerant of being labelled "coloured" ...and I still find the same today with black and Asian people..so I can only speak as I find


You are correct again it's about identity, coloured covers everyone for Asian to white to black, if you black your black, if your Asian your Asian...


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Meezey said:


> My ex fiance is black, and hates to be called coloured. Coloured was deemed to be PC, Black is what they are and what they chose to be called and are very proud to be called black. I've never know ANYONE in all my years wanting to be referred to as coloured :yikes:


All I can go on is what I know - and I so I stand by what I say. I lived for ten years in Tinsley in Sheffield - a predominantly Asian area - friends and neighbours (including my next door neighbour and very good friend) often used the term about themselves.

So whilst I respect that your boyfriend felt this way, it is not totally representative of everyone who is not "white" (for want of a better word).


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DT said:


> Exactly! my son in law is black!!!! my granddaughter obviously ,mixed , BUT prefers to be called BLACK!
> 
> its a no no Val!


Wow. That would get ya in deep water here in the US.
They aren't "black" they say. I think it has to do with the word ***** being bastardized ( ***** means black)
"African-American" is the term that seems to be the most PC title.

Which really confuses me at times because most are _several_ generations into being born and bred in the US.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> All I can go on is what I know - and I so I stand by what I say. I lived for ten years in Tinsley in Sheffield - a predominantly Asian area - friends and neighbours (including my next door neighbour and very good friend) often used the term about themselves.
> 
> So whilst I respect that your boyfriend felt this way, it is not totally representative of everyone who is not "white" (for want of a better word).


to call 'anyone' coloured is an insult!
Ask them!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> Wow. That would get ya in deep water here in the US.
> They aren't "black" they say. I think it has to do with the word ***** being bastardized ( ***** means black)
> "African-American" is the term that seems to be the most PC title.
> 
> Which really confuses me at times because most are _several_ generations into being born and bred in the US.


Don't know what the fook you are on about!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Spirited said:


> Wow. That would get ya in deep water here in the US.
> They aren't "black" they say. I think it has to do with the word ***** being bastardized ( ***** means black)
> "African-American" is the term that seems to be the most PC title.
> 
> Which really confuses me at times because most are _several_ generations into being born and bred in the US.


Yes in the US it's "African American".


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> Wow. That would get ya in deep water here in the US.
> They aren't "black" they say. I think it has to do with the word ***** being bastardized ( ***** means black)
> "African-American" is the term that seems to be the most PC title.
> 
> Which really confuses me at times because most are _several_ generations into being born and bred in the US.


And whats a deep water?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Yes in the US it's "African American".


But I aint is the US


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> Ffs grow up some of u .....
> 
> spellweaver is far from racist ....
> 
> ...


Who on earth said SW was racist...if I see a term that I KNOW would offend some black or Asian people...surely its fair enough to make the point.

And yes...I agree that the interview was heartbreaking...luckily they seem a very close family..so can hopefully support each other through this nightmare


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> All I can go on is what I know - and I so I stand by what I say. I lived for ten years in Tinsley in Sheffield - a predominantly Asian area - friends and neighbours (including my next door neighbour and very good friend) often used the term about themselves.
> 
> So whilst I respect that your boyfriend felt this way, it is not totally representative of everyone who is not "white" (for want of a better word).


I'm really not picking or trying to be funny Spellweaver honest, the term is "black" being called "coloured" would seriously offend most people now. Asian prefer to be called Asian and those from African or Caribbean heritage etc prefer to be called black.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> I'm really not picking or trying to be funny Spellweaver honest, the term is "black" being called "coloured" would seriously offend most people now. Asian prefer to be called Asian and those from African or Caribbean heritage etc prefer to be called black.


That's just what I said


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Meezey said:


> I'm really not picking or trying to be funny Spellweaver honest, the term is "black" being called "coloured" would seriously offend most people now. Asian prefer to be called Asian and those from African or Caribbean heritage etc prefer to be called black.


And I'm not trying to be contrary but I know my friends and what they like and don't like, and what is acceptable to them and what is not acceptable to them 

Perhaps instead of arguing about the labels and what they mean we should just forget all the labels - which mean different things in different countries anyway - and all look upon each other as *people* with different ethnic heritages.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> And I'm not trying to be contrary but I know my friends and what they like and don't like, and what is acceptable to them and what is not acceptable to them
> 
> Perhaps instead of arguing about the labels and what they mean we should just forget all the labels - which mean different things in different countries anyway - and all look upon each other as *people* with different ethnic heritages.


Thats fine but it was you that used the label


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

chichi said:


> Thats fine but it was you that used the label


And you who objected and wanted to use a different label


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> And I'm not trying to be contrary but I know my friends and what they like and don't like, and what is acceptable to them and what is not acceptable to them
> 
> Perhaps instead of arguing about the labels and what they mean we should just forget all the labels - which mean different things in different countries anyway - and all look upon each other as *people* with different ethnic heritages.


We are not arguing about labels!
Would you prefer to be called of 'europeon origin? 
Because I most certainly wouldn't!


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DT said:


> And whats a deep water?


Similar to hot water. A euphemism for trouble


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> spellweaver is far from racist ....
> 
> We are all a colour ....so sue me ...im pink not white!!
> 
> ...


Ill agree with you 200% that SW is NOT racist Suzy.
But I would disagree with you that black people prefer to be called either coloured
They are black AND proud of it, and why shouldn't they be!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> And you who objected and wanted to use a different label


I love labels....so long as any readers wouldnt be offended by them


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

DT said:


> And whats a deep water?


I think deep water means the same as 'deep shite' only more polite :laugh:


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> Similar to hot water. A euphemism for trouble


hope Im NOT be offensive!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DT said:


> We are not arguing about labels!
> Would you prefer to be called of 'europeon origin?
> Because I most certainly wouldn't!


It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not bothered what anyone calls me as long as they don't call me too late for my dinner. 

I am English; my husband is a British Citizen originally fom Germany, and we are both Europeans - nowt wrong in any of that imo!


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DT said:


> Does that mean you've put the kettle on?


:yikes:

A kettle means trouble to you?
What is it you boil up anyway?

:laugh:


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

chichi said:


> I love labels....so long as any readers wouldnt be offended by them


I love labels too
Muppets is my favorite


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> :yikes:
> 
> A kettle means trouble to you?
> What is it you boil up anyway?
> ...


you've lost me sunshine!


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Why were you so surprised? Surely you must know by now that I will not support racism in any shape or form. Janice quite rightly pointed out that a similar attack by a white man on a coloured man had happened around the same time and pointed out that people were not up in arms about that attack (a pretty horrific attack - he was stabbed several times) and were not baying for the white man's blood in the same way as they were baying for the blood of the murderers of Lee Rigby.
> 
> BOTH are horrific. BOTH are wrong. In BOTH cases the attackers are scum and deserve everything they will get and more. Along with most of the country I wept copious amounts when I watched the interview that Lee's family gave. You could feel their pain, pain that should never have had to be experienced. But the coloured man who was murdered will have family just as distraught, and yet no-one seems to care about that, People are not baying for the blood of _his_ attacker. Janice was pointing this out - so why are you so surprised, knowing how I feel about racism, that I agreed with and supported her post?


The only reason I personally was not 'up in arms' or anything else about the other attack, is because I didn't know about it.

It wasnt reported nationally (or I didnt see it was reported).

Thats not the fault of anyone 'up in arms' about Lees murder. Its the fault of the media. Three stab wounds to the back, after dark, obviously isnt sensational enough. If Lee had died in that way theres no way his murder would be getting the attention its getting.

Both murders are as horrific as the other. The public can only react to what they are fed by the media.

Saying people dont care because a black/asian/coloured/non white person was murdered by a white person is wrong.

I think the majority of people _do_ care. We just cant comment or react to things we dont know about.

Posting the link to 'balance things' was not a nice or correct thing to do. Things dont need 'balancing' to normal people that know right from wrong.

The colour of skin of the victims or the perpetrators shouldnt come into it.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DT said:


> Ill agree with you 200% that SW is NOT racist Suzy.
> But I would disagree with you that black people prefer to be called either coloured
> They are black AND proud of it, and why shouldn't they be!


Yes most of the people i know do but that is just it its a preference ....of a name not someones fundamental beliefs on rascism ...

i wonder if some of the black and asian friends of some on here would be happy to see friends saying fu**off back to where they come from ....now to me that is far worse

and no it was not u dt


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes most of the people i know do but that is just it its a preference ....of a name not someones fundamental beliefs on rascism ...
> 
> i wonder if some of the black and asian friends of some on here would be happy to see friends saying fu**off back to where they come from ....now to me that is far worse
> 
> and no it was not u dt


Suzy
Sure you will agree the colour of ones skin should not make this any more horrific
I would have felt the same had it been and human being


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not bothered what anyone calls me as long as they don't call me too late for my dinner.
> 
> I am English; my husband is a British Citizen originally fom Germany, and we are both Europeans - nowt wrong in any of that imo!


Im English, from England
Don't know where this UK or GB is


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Anyway! Im off to bed, don't let it be said that I didn't try to bury the hatchet!
BUT if was a one off!
Back to normal tomorrow


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DT said:


> Suzy
> Sure you will agree the colour of ones skin should not make this any more horrific
> I would have felt the same had it been and human being


My honest opinion ? ...

it shouldnt make one jot of difference

But if lee had been just a normal black man ...ie not a soldier ...killed by two other black men ....it probably would not have even made the national news ...

can u hand on heart say as many white people would have reacted the
e way they have??

Im by no means trivulising lees death it was unjust ....but then so is evry other murder too


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes most of the people i know do but that is just it its a preference ....of a name not someones fundamental beliefs on rascism ...
> 
> i wonder if some of the black and asian friends of some on here would be happy to see friends saying fu**off back to where they come from ....now to me that is far worse
> 
> and no it was not u dt


If you are referring to me ..... I said that those who were hating on Brits and their beliefs should f*** of to a Country where they wouldnt be around the Brits they hate.....and guess what...that view is shared by everyone I know in RL no matter of colour..race or religion.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

y


suzy93074 said:


> My honest opinion ? ...
> 
> it shouldnt make one jot of difference
> 
> ...


Suzy the fact is we SHOULD be blind to the colour, the were extremists!
To be honest with you I was 'gobsmaked' when I saw they were black! I think maybe if they had be of 'asian' descent then maybe I could have 'accepted' or 'expected' it


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

MCWillow said:


> The only reason I personally was not 'up in arms' or anything else about the *other attack, is because I didn't know about it.
> 
> It wasnt reported nationally (or I didnt see it was reported).*
> 
> ...


The bits in bold are the whole point. It *wasn't* given media coverage and yet it *was* an attack as horrific as the one that happened to poor Lee Rigby. Why wasn't it given media coverage? Why was it not deemed as important? This is where the racism bit comes into play - not the fact that people on here have not posted about it.

But then when it *was* brought to our attention some people thought it better to attack the person who brought it to our attention than to address the above issue.

If this had been the "RIP" thread then I would have agreed with you that introducing the subject would not have been a nice or correct thing to do. However, this is a thread about capital punishment and people are calling for the reinstatement of capital punishment (some of them advocating a very gory kind of capital punishment) for murders like the one perpetrated on Lee Rigby. In that circumstance I think it is wholly appropriate to introduce the murder of the Asian (label used so's not to offend Meezey and Chichi  ) man by a white man and to ask if those advocating capital punishment (especially the ones who are being gory about the kind of punishment) would want to extend this to everyone who perpetrates these kinds of crimes.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> My honest opinion ? ...
> 
> it shouldnt make one jot of difference
> 
> ...


Like I said Suzy - people can only react to what they know about.
Any decent human being would have reacted the same way to Lees death if he had just been a normal black man killed by two other black men.

I would like to think the colour of skin wouldnt come into it.

I think (maybe I am an optimist, or just like to believe most people are inherently decent) that they would be just as appalled by the nature of Lees death, whoever it happened to.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Why has this thread turned into a debate about skin colour? the last time I checked Muslims were not a race.... I was just on Twitter and a Muslim person had re-tweeted someone who had said they hate all Muslims and this Muslim person called them racist and told them they need to educate themselves.... I really do not see anything wrong with disagreeing with a certain religion, if someone said they hated Christians and they all need to go back to Bethlehem would you call them racist? 

I don't hate Muslims and I would never hate anyone for what they believe but I do not agree with most religions. I also think that if these Muslim extremists hate Britain and what we stand for so much then why don't they go and live in Afghanistan or Iraq if their laws suit them better? 

The people who call other people racist and uneducated for hating a religion are the racist and uneducated ones themselves, religion has no skin colour anyone can be a Muslim!


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## Guest (May 24, 2013)

this wasn't a terrorist attack. it is murder just like any other and I hate to admit in this case I can't argue against the death penalty.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DT said:


> y
> 
> Suzy the fact is we SHOULD be blind to the colour, the were extremists!
> To be honest with you I was 'gobsmaked' when I saw they were black! I think maybe if they had be of 'asian' descent then maybe I could have 'accepted' or 'expected' it[/QUOTE
> ...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

OK
so looking at it from another angle!
If these to 'extremists' (im refraining) were so against our country, our government [email protected]@ they WHY did they not go and fight , or show their support for the 'country' they felt worthy??
WHY!
I'll tell you why! because they ARE COWARDS


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> DT said:
> 
> 
> > y
> ...


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Royoyo said:


> Why has this thread turned into a debate about skin colour? the last time I checked Muslims were not a race.... I was just on Twitter and a Muslim person had re-tweeted someone who had said they hate all Muslims and this Muslim person called them racist and told them they need to educate themselves.... I really do not see anything wrong with disagreeing with a certain religion, if someone said they hated Christians and they all need to go back to Bethlehem would you call them racist?
> 
> I don't hate Muslims and I would never hate anyone for what they believe but I do not agree with most religions. I also think that if these Muslim extremists hate Britain and what we stand for so much then why don't they go and live in Afghanistan or Iraq if their laws suit them better?
> 
> The people who call other people racist and uneducated for hating a religion are the racist and uneducated ones themselves, religion has no skin colour anyone can be a Muslim!


You need to catch up on the thread to see how it developed into a side-discusion about racism - no-one is confusing racism with religious intolerance


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DT said:


> you've lost me sunshine!


It ruins the humor when the joke has to be explained.
It had to do with my comment about trouble and your _original_ post I quoted that dealt with kettle.

See. No funnies when explained.
:crazy:


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> The bits in bold are the whole point. It *wasn't* given media coverage and yet it *was* an attack as horrific as the one that happened to poor Lee Rigby. Why wasn't it given media coverage? Why was it not deemed as important? This is where the racism bit comes into play - not the fact that people on here have not posted about it.
> 
> But then when it *was* brought to our attention some people thought it better to attack the person who brought it to our attention than to address the above issue.
> 
> If this had been the "RIP" thread then I would have agreed with you that introducing the subject would not have been a nice or correct thing to do. However, this is a thread about capital punishment and people are calling for the reinstatement of capital punishment (some of them advocating a very gory kind of capital punishment) for murders like the one perpetrated on Lee Rigby. In that circumstance I think it is wholly appropriate to introduce the murder of the Asian (label used so's not to offend Meezey and Chichi  ) man by a white man and to ask if those advocating capital punishment (especially the ones who are being gory about the kind of punishment) would want to extend this to everyone who perpetrates these kinds of crimes.


OK, I do see where you are coming from. If you want the death penalty then it should be universal - not dependant on the colour of someones skin.

Personally, I just didnt like the phrase 'for balance' that was used.

There_ is_ no balance. Both the victims died in horrific circumstances, and died by the hands of extremists that have a warped sense of right and wrong.

And no, Janice shouldn't have been jumped on for bringing it to our attention - like I said, for _me_, the phrase 'for balance' just didn't sit right with me.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> The people who call other people racist and uneducated for hating a religion are the racist and uneducated ones themselves, religion has no skin colour anyone can be a Muslim!


Yep! we know that!
do we look stupid


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> You need to catch up on the thread to see how it developed into a side-discusion about racism - no-one is confusing racism with religious intolerance


Obviously someone has or skin colour would not have come into the discussion.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> It ruins the humor when the joke has to be explained.
> It had to do with my comment about trouble and your _original_ post I quoted that dealt with kettle.
> 
> See. No funnies when explained.
> :crazy:


don't think there is room for jokes on this thread!
Didn't you learn your lesson?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Royoyo said:


> Obviously someone has or skin colour would not have come into the discussion.


As I said - read the thread and you will see. This is a thread about capital punishment, not just about the horrific murder of Lee Rigby. It will take too long to explain and the posts are all there. Look before you jump to conclusions and judge.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

MCWillow said:


> OK, I do see where you are coming from. If you want the death penalty then it should be universal - not dependant on the colour of someones skin.
> 
> Personally, I just didnt like the phrase 'for balance' that was used.
> 
> ...


Bingo ..totally agree will rep u when im not on my moby ..xxx


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> As I said - read the thread and you will see. It will take too long to explain and the posts are all there. Look before you judge.


Ok I shall have another read through! this thread is a long one though :yikes: what page number? lol


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DT said:


> don't think there is room for jokes on *this* thread!
> Didn't you learn your lesson?


Surely you jest in light of your post that I was commenting on in the first place
:rolleyes5:

Not to mention the fact that was a different thread enitirely


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Royoyo said:


> Obviously someone has or skin colour would not have come into the discussion.


With this topic it was pretty difficult not to touch on it ...but its not the essence of the thread


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

DT said:


> Yep! we know that!
> do we look stupid


You do a bit aye


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> Surely you jest in light of your post that I was commenting on in the first place
> :rolleyes5:


nope! I don't do jesting
tonight I think ive lost the plot


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Ah well - I'm off to me bed. (I sat down to switch the computer off and have an early night and that was two hours ago :yikes: )

G'night all - I'll catch up sometime over the weekend.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> You do a bit aye


Im a good match for you then


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DT said:


> nope! I don't do jesting
> tonight I think ive lost the plot


lmao

youre a nutter!
:cornut:


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> lmao
> 
> youre a nutter!
> :cornut:


I know


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Ah well - I'm off to me bed. (I sat down to switch the computer off and have an early night and that was two hours ago :yikes: )
> 
> G'night all - I'll catch up sometime over the weekend.


:yikes: only two hours! part timer


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> Ah well - I'm off to me bed. (I sat down to switch the computer off and have an early night and that was two hours ago :yikes: )
> 
> G'night all - I'll catch up sometime over the weekend.


Lol i was watchin a film val! ....needless to say i missed it pmsl .... nite hun


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Oh and im glad we managed to contain and bring i:yikes:t back from the brink


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

DT said:


> Im a good match for you then


Meeeep that hurt my feels.


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