# Do you believe in life after death



## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

This is a little different to the usual threads I start and I actually can't see this one being deleted or locked hahaha 

So do you believe there is life after death? If you do what do you believe?

I love this little story

In a mother's womb were two babies. One asked the other: "Do you believe in life after delivery?" The other replies, "why, of course. There has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later. "Nonsense," says the other. "There is no life after delivery. What would that life be?" "I don't know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths." The other says "This is absurd! Walking is impossible. And eat with our mouths? Ridiculous. The umbilical cord supplies nutrition. Life after delivery is to be excluded. The umbilical cord is too short." "I think there is something and maybe it's different than it is here." the other replies, "No one has ever come back from there. Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery it is nothing but darkness and anxiety and it takes us nowhere." "Well, I don't know," says the other, "but certainly we will see mother and she will take care of us." "Mother??" You believe in mother? Where is she now? "She is all around us. It is in her that we live. Without her there would not be this world." "I don't see her, so it's only logical that she doesn't exist." To which the other replied, "sometimes when you're in silence you can hear her, you can perceive her." I believe there is a reality after delivery and we are here to prepare ourselves for that reality....


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

No I don't believe in life after death, although I would like it! but I think it's just a thought that gives people comfort when their loved ones die or when they are close to dying. 

I am however TERRIFIED that after death I can still feel pain, I do not want an autopsy just in case :lol: very irrational I know.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

My auntie "died" twice on the operating table. She has heart trouble and went into cardiac arrest and was clinically dead but has had two near death experiences of being what describes as being embraced by very loving hands and travelling down a tunnel and being met by some godly being being told its not her time yet and has to return to life.

At the time she was having a really stressful time as her husband had left her for another man and other personal problems but later on she met her 3rd husband called Christoph who amazingly had the same name as her beloved first husband who died of lymphatic cancer 3 months after they married.

I do believe in life after death. You get met by a member of your family who is special to you either a parent or grandparent. Those people who lose limbs in accidents often say that when they are heading towards the light they are able bodied and made whole again and pain free.

I also have a book on it. It really fascinates me.


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## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

redroses2106 said:


> No I don't believe in life after death, although I would like it! but I think it's just a thought that gives people comfort when their loved ones die or when they are close to dying.
> 
> I am however TERRIFIED that after death I can still feel pain, I do not want an autopsy just in case :lol: very irrational I know.


This is so random  on the one hand you don't believe in life after death but on the hand you believe in pain after death, wouldn't that just mean you were still alive? xxx



Iheartcats said:


> My auntie "died" twice on the operating table. She has heart trouble and went into cardiac arrest and was clinically dead but has had two near death experiences of being what describes as being embraced by very loving hands and travelling down a tunnel and being met by some godly being being told its not her time yet and has to return to life.
> 
> At the time she was having a really stressful time as her husband had left her for another man and other personal problems but later on she met her 3rd husband called Christoph who amazingly had the same name as her beloved first husband who died of lymphatic cancer 3 months after they married.
> 
> ...


That is a beautiful story, one I have heard many times, I died when I was 15 and that was fascinating, really freaked me out coming back knowing what I knew and not believing that I knew it lol


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

I would like to think so. Its that thought that got me through losing my mother last year, that shes now happy and safe wherever she is and shes still around me in some form. I believe that the energy a person leaves behind still exists in some form or that there is a chance they come back in another form. Funny enough I recently got an unexpected surprised of getting my new girl Ember, she was specially bred and had a home before she was even born however the person who firstly wanted her could no longer take her, so she came into my vet practice for vaccinations and I ended up taking her at the end of that week. But the funniest thing is she has my mothers eyes, which is a very unusual colour especially for her breed but she also knows exactly what to do to help me during seizures (keeping me warm, licking me etc). She came when I really needed someone. But yes, I would like to believe shes come back as an animal I adore or sent her down but either way, I'd like to believe shes still out there


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## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

I do!!! 
I believe in heaven and reincarnation! I believe, if you do well in your current life, you go to heaven. If you don't, you start again as somebody else. I believe in Ghosts/Spirits too as my mum and nana have seen a few!


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## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

Lovehatetragedy said:


> I would like to think so. Its that thought that got me through losing my mother last year, that shes now happy and safe wherever she is and shes still around me in some form. I believe that the energy a person leaves behind still exists in some form or that there is a chance they come back in another form. Funny enough I recently got an unexpected surprised of getting my new girl Ember, she was specially bred and had a home before she was even born however the person who firstly wanted her could no longer take her, so she came into my vet practice for vaccinations and I ended up taking her at the end of that week. But the funniest thing is she has my mothers eyes, which is a very unusual colour especially for her breed but she also knows exactly what to do to help me during seizures (keeping me warm, licking me etc). But yes, I would like to believe shes come back as an animal I adore but either way, I'd like to believe shes still out there


wow, that is a beautiful story x


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Yes, I do


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I want to, I'd love to believe that Scorcher's at the bridge waiting for me to join her, really I would, I dream about it. However I don't believe in life after death.

I also don't believe in god so the idea of heaven is something I don't believe in either.

I envy those who do, it would be exciting to think what new life is waiting for us after we die.


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## Javy (Jun 11, 2012)

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

For me, this says it all


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## Mark Walden (Mar 31, 2013)

I do not, no 

I'm a skeptic, and I'm very open minded about it. We can't remember anything before we were born and I believe it works the same way after you die.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

I believe i had a NDE when i had an operation as a lad of about 6 or 7

I have the "memory" of an old man and a young boy sat on a bench outside a house on a street i know, i dont know if i was the boy or the old man, ive looked up and down the street and there's no bench outside any house (or wasnt) and as a boy id never been up that street

it would be sad if THIS was "IT" 

every civilisation had believed in an afterlife, but a sign would be nice...


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Mark Walden said:


> I do not, no
> 
> I'm a skeptic, and I'm very open minded about it.


youve contradicted your self

you cant be open minded *AND* say you don't believe, once you say you dont believe your open mind is closed


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## Mark Walden (Mar 31, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> youve contradicted your self
> 
> you cant be open minded *AND* say you don't believe, once you say you dont believe your open mind is closed


Well, when there is a sign or any evidence then I'd be happy to acknowledge it, thats what I'm trying to put across. As it stands for the moment, I'm inclined to say no.

Thats why I'm not an athiest, I'm not in any side. Once you put yourself in a category, like an athiest you are bound to a set of rules and beliefs, which I find ironic in many ways.

*If *I'm an 'ist' I'd be a scientist, we all were to some degree, ever since we were toddlers rolling over rocks in the back garden and discovering things. We all thrive to learn, for truth, and no one should stop you or get in the way because they believe in something different.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

even for a scientist a leap of faith is needed sometimes


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

I dont know anymore, dont even know if i care.


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## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Nope definitely not.


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## Mark Walden (Mar 31, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> even for a scientist a leap of faith is needed sometimes


Why do you say that? I'm always interested to hear these things.


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## ~Cookie~ (Aug 7, 2010)

I like to believe there is something but not no much a heaven. I believe i will see my dead loved ones again and my pets. I believe it will just be a happy place and they will be happy and healthy and the only people i meet will be ones who i loved here. 

I am not religious though and do not base my belief on being good/being forgiven for my 'sinful' life and everything else that goes along with it etc so i get into a heaven - i just like to think i will do my best here and then see them all again in some form. 

It comforts me since i have lost a lot of family while still being young and i like to think that they are close by watching and waiting for us to be re-united again.

But then on the other hand i think there was nothing before we were born - no memories etc - so there will be nothing afterwards too.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

No, I don't.

I am an atheist, a humanist. I believe we should make the most of the life here and now for ourselves and for those around me.

If there were ever to be proven scientific evidence for the contrary I will review my outlook, but as there is no such proof I think I would rather concentrate on the life I have now than worry about the unknown.

I don't fear death, I just won't waste my time thinking about what happens after it


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

redroses2106 said:


> No I don't believe in life after death, although I would like it! but I think it's just a thought that gives people comfort when their loved ones die or when they are close to dying.
> 
> I am however TERRIFIED that after death I can still feel pain, I do not want an autopsy just in case :lol: very irrational I know.


I want an autopsy, just to make sure I am definitely dead before they put me in the ground.

Yes, I most definitely believe in life after death. I have had a lot of evidence over the years.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Interesting thread, interesting to read peoples thoughts on this because i really have no idea, ive no idea whether theres a god or not so heaven??? afterlife???. theres times when ive thought there cant possibly be a god and then other times, well maybe, same with life after death i hear stories and think there has to be an afterlife but as ive never experienced anything, personally then i really cant say.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Mark Walden said:


> I do not, no
> 
> I'm a skeptic, and I'm very open minded about it. We can't remember anything before we were born and I believe it works the same way after you die.


How do you know you can't remember anything from before you were born? Have you been regressed under hypnosis to a previous life? Lots of people have and if we don't remember those lives without hypnotic regression, it is because we would go totally mad if we remembered every life we have ever lived.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Mark Walden said:


> Well, when there is a sign or any evidence then I'd be happy to acknowledge it, thats what I'm trying to put across. As it stands for the moment, I'm inclined to say no.
> 
> Thats why I'm not an athiest, I'm not in any side. Once you put yourself in a category, like an athiest you are bound to a set of rules and beliefs, which I find ironic in many ways.
> 
> *If *I'm an 'ist' I'd be a scientist, we all were to some degree, ever since we were toddlers rolling over rocks in the back garden and discovering things. We all thrive to learn, for truth, and no one should stop you or get in the way because they believe in something different.


But there is no evidence that there is NOT an afterlife, either. Science and faith do not need to be mutually exclusive and I never understand why it is either one or the other.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

no i dont believe in life after death.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Yes I do believe in life after death... We have energy, energy never dies. It changes form so what happens to that energy when we pop our mortal coil? 

I've had a few experiences that have reinforced my beliefs, including signs from Dad. Not going into those here, people would think I was a nutcase, I know what I know and I believe what I believe.... I've always had a feeling that our time on earth is just a tiny part of something bigger.

I believe that life is a lesson, if we don't learn those lessons then we have to keep coming back until we do  

My Dad was also a strong believer in life after death. He always said that the body was a shell, it meant nothing. he always told me not to be upset when he died because he wouldn't be dead not while he was in my heart and head  

I always keep in mind the quote by Medium Tony Stockwell. Love is eternal, we are eternal  And it's true.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

I believe in life after death, always have! I don't think that we die and then we are gone for good. I think we linger around as spirits or are reborn as someone else.

On a couple of occasions as a child I had gone places with my mum and I could have sworn that I had been there before because I recognised them but she was adamant that I hadn't! How would I know these places if I'd never been there before? 

I also have a terrible fear of crossing busy roads by myself and of loud vehicles like motorbikes, always have done! I don't like cars driving extremely fast past me, I don't like walking down narrow paths where I am closer to the road and if I hear a noisy car/motorbike my heart races extremely fast! I don't know why, I don't know anyone that has been knocked over and I haven't. I just feel like I've been knocked down before. 

When I was little my great nan always used to make me lavender bags to put in my room! After she died whenever I was upset I always used to be able to smell lavender no matter where I was at the time, and it automatically comforted me because it felt like she was around.


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## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

Mark Walden said:


> I do not, no
> 
> I'm a skeptic, and I'm very open minded about it. We can't remember anything before we were born and I believe it works the same way after you die.


Even though we do not remember anything from before we were born doesn't men we weren't alive  xx


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Do you think we have been alive and died before then? that this could be our 2nd,3rd 4th................................life.


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## Mark Walden (Mar 31, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> How do you know you can't remember anything from before you were born? Have you been regressed under hypnosis to a previous life? Lots of people have and if we don't remember those lives without hypnotic regression, it is because we would go totally mad if we remembered every life we have ever lived.


Personally I don't like the idea of thinking that is something lacks the evidence then it MUST be something else. If people have regressed under hypnosis, how is that evidence? It could also be so many other factors. The mind is such a complex organ that we know barely anything about, but I don't think we should assume a, b & c unless we have the full evidence to support those claims.



newfiesmum said:


> But there is no evidence that there is NOT an afterlife, either. Science and faith do not need to be mutually exclusive and I never understand why it is either one or the other.


Never said they shouldn't go together, there are plenty of physicists and scientists that are religious. Thats great in my opinion. People should be open to other peoples views and opinions. I have nothing wrong with people thinking there is a afterlife. I find the idea very fascinating if one day we do come across evidence that supports it.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I guess I'm a non believer. I certainly don't believe in god or anything like that so any of religious interpretations of life/death are out as far as I am concerned. 

The thing I do find weird is the uniformity in the experiences people report who have come close to death- the whole bright light, person to meet them etc... I understand that the brain could be going through some sort of routine shut down procedure but it is peculiar how it should be so specific and also 'new' in the sense that it isn't memories of being with relatives in the past- it is a specific circumstance where you appear to re-unite with them. I dunno, it just seems strange. Are all these people making it up or what? Why do they all seem to report something so similar? 

The energy never dying/transforming thing is covered in terms of physics by the body decaying and releasing heat energy etc...


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

Changes said:


> This is so random  on the one hand you don't believe in life after death but on the hand you believe in pain after death, wouldn't that just mean you were still alive? xxx


lol I know it is just a completely irrational fear I have! I know It makes no sense but still something that worries me ut:


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

well in all honesty ive always since I was a child believed in life after death...I have what my mother calls "a gift" its something all the women in my family seems to have a form of. As a child it was frightening and as I grew up I have blocked it out. I have always had severe migraines from blocking out what I didnt wnat to see/hear/feel but didnt realise thats what it was until I stopped blocking and starting embracing.

Im into everything like tarot reading, runes, mediumship, etc 
I guess it just depends on the individual, the fact ive had experiences means I know for sure there is another plain on a spiritual level but people who say they dont believe are those of us who either havent had any form of experience or they have had one that has scared them to the point its easier for them to deny an existence after death


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Yes i do believe in life after death, i have had a few experiences of hearing and seeing things and having my hair stroked when i was going through a very bad time in my life, hearing footsteps on the stairs, knocking on doors etc,
Also a few weeks before my dad died, he told my mum that he had been a beautiful place in his dreams,and the colours were out of this world,literally, every thing was a stronger deeper brighter colour
My dad was not a believer, although my mother was, he then asked when the 26th was[of may] she said about 3 weeks away, why, he couldnt explain it, but that was the day he passed away,
I used to visit a blind lady, and do a bit of shopping for her, one day i found her on the floor,she had been there all night, i got her to hospital, and visited her every night, one night she got in a panic and said kept saying no,no, not yet, i asked her what was wrong,she said my mother is here and shes calling me, i am not going, i dont want to
I told the nurse on my way out to ring her family who lived away, i said she wont be here in the morning, the nurse laughed it off, but she passed away at 6am
There are lots of things that convince me there is an afterlife, seeing my mother at the side of my bed one night, which i admit freaked me out
On the other hand, not sure bout God, i cant believe if there is a god, who looks after us all, why are terrible things happening in the world, and especially all the animal cruelty, we might have free will but THEY dont, so whatever faith i might have had, i am losing,i am afraid


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> well in all honesty ive always since I was a child believed in life after death...I have what my mother calls "a gift" its something all the women in my family seems to have a form of. As a child it was frightening and as I grew up I have blocked it out. I have always had severe migraines from blocking out what I didnt wnat to see/hear/feel but didnt realise thats what it was until I stopped blocking and starting embracing.
> 
> Im into everything like tarot reading, runes, mediumship, etc
> I guess it just depends on the individual, the fact ive had experiences means I know for sure there is another plain on a spiritual level but people who say they dont believe are those of us who either havent had any form of experience or they have had one that has scared them to the point its easier for them to deny an existence after death


This is why i would never say i dont believe, because never has anything happened to make me believe either way. If anything ime swayed to believing because ive friends, friends i would trust, old friends that i know would only tell me the truth have been to mediums and their experiences really make you think.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

I want to just add somethig that ill make people think wtf

I believe in ghosts, an afterlife on a spiritual plain, the devil or some evil entity as such...I even believe in the loch ness monster and aliens...

I dont however believe there is a heaven or a god


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> well in all honesty ive always since I was a child believed in life after death...I have what my mother calls "a gift" its something all the women in my family seems to have a form of. As a child it was frightening and as I grew up I have blocked it out. I have always had severe migraines from blocking out what I didnt wnat to see/hear/feel but didnt realise thats what it was until I stopped blocking and starting embracing.
> 
> Im into everything like tarot reading, runes, mediumship, etc
> I guess it just depends on the individual, the fact ive had experiences means I know for sure there is another plain on a spiritual level but people who say they dont believe are those of us who either havent had any form of experience or they have had one that has scared them to the point its easier for them to deny an existence after death


My mother was psychic, she used to have dreams and feelings which always came true. But it scared the life out of her and she would deny it if she could get away with it. We have a few mediums in my family, but I don't believe in tarot cards or runes or crystals or palmistry. I think if you need an aid it is not genuine.

My mother and my daughter were the only two people who could hear piano music in the night at my brother's Victorian house. No one else ever did but they both heard it at separate times and without knowing about the other.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> I want to just add somethig that ill make people think wtf
> 
> I believe in ghosts, an afterlife on a spiritual plain, the devil or some evil entity as such...I even believe in the loch ness monster and aliens...
> 
> I dont however believe there is a heaven or a god


It is not logical to suppose that we are the only inhabited planet in the entire, vast universe, but that does not mean that aliens have visited earth nor are ever likely to. I don't believe there is anything far fetched about accepting that they must exist.

But I would say that God was far more plausible than the Loch Ness Monster, or the Yeti or Big Foot.


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> I want to just add somethig that ill make people think wtf
> 
> I believe in ghosts, an afterlife on a spiritual plain, the devil or some evil entity as such...I even believe in the loch ness monster and aliens...
> 
> I dont however believe there is a heaven or a god


You've got the same belief as me there Georgie.

I've had things happen since my mum passed away also. Things breaking, lights turning on, the feeling of my hair being stroked. When im in a very down mood i can often smell my mums perfume or her hand cream. And of course the most recent the unexpected arrival of my pup with my mothers eyes and caring nature, she came exactly when I needed her the most. I had the feeling my mother was going go to the night before she did. I've done it with previous furries in my house too. I get a weird feeling that I can't shake, it was very strange. Almost upsetting that I ignored that gut feeling but it allowed me the most important thing and that was to say goodbye in the best way i could. We also attend spiritualist church regularly and we know no-one there but the message we got a few days after my mother died was enough to convince me she was there. The information given was very key information that was all spot on and accurate.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> My mother was psychic, she used to have dreams and feelings which always came true. But it scared the life out of her and she would deny it if she could get away with it. We have a few mediums in my family, but I don't believe in tarot cards or runes or crystals or palmistry. I think if you need an aid it is not genuine.
> 
> My mother and my daughter were the only two people who could hear piano music in the night at my brother's Victorian house. No one else ever did but they both heard it at separate times and without knowing about the other.


I wouldnt say I was psychic, I can hear,see and feel things that others dont...I have what I would call premonitions others would say dreams and its of things that do eventually happen...I cant ever tell when what I see will happen but it does always happen and normally between a month to 4 months of me seeing it.

As for tarot cards etc its not that your not psychic or that they are an aid...They are a tool for using to see the future or future events. Not everyone can read tarot cards...only those who can properly connect and channel the spirit plain through can use them with great accuracy. I use them as I they can give insight into things I hve seen but with greater detail.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> I wouldnt say I was psychic, I can hear,see and feel things that others dont...I have what I would call premonitions others would say dreams and its of things that do eventually happen...I cant ever tell when what I see will happen but it does always happen and normally between a month to 4 months of me seeing it.
> 
> As for tarot cards etc its not that your not psychic or that they are an aid...They are a tool for using to see the future or future events. Not everyone can read tarot cards...only those who can properly connect and channel the spirit plain through can use them with great accuracy. I use them as I they can give insight into things I hve seen but with greater detail.


If you can do all that, then you are psychic. Nothing will convince me of tarot cards, I'm afraid. Years ago I went to see a clairvoyant, just as a laugh as you do. He was hugely fat, about 20 stone, and he put my engagement ring on the end of his little finger and told me all sorts of things he couldn't possibly have known.

He was my first experience of anyone like that and I always believed that if he didn't need anything except my ring, then that is how it should be.

He was very good, told me lots about the future, and my friend too. But the strange thing was he did not know when his wife was planning to run off with his best friend!


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

I cant honestly say Im a religious person,although I do believe in a higher power. I do have spiritual views,difficult to explain,but I sincerely hope we do go to a better place as sadly on Friday evening my beloved nephew died at the tender age of 48. I want to think he is with my Mother and Father and being hugged to pieces.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> It is not logical to suppose that we are the only inhabited planet in the entire, vast universe, but that does not mean that aliens have visited earth nor are ever likely to. I don't believe there is anything far fetched about accepting that they must exist.
> 
> But I would say that God was far more plausible than the Loch Ness Monster, or the Yeti or Big Foot.


I would have to say I completely disagree...there is if you look between the stories and the faked pictures...evidence that there is a monster within the loch. There have been deaths and boats capsized by something (my uncle sadly years ago was one of those who drowned in the loch due to being pushed/pulled in - body is still in there somewhere) the weather and water were calm so it was not by wind or choppy waters that these have happened.

god I do not believe in and never will believe in. there is no evidence that he exists other than a bible....a bible i might add which I have percieved as being an old fashioned fictional novel


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> If you can do all that, then you are psychic. Nothing will convince me of tarot cards, I'm afraid. Years ago I went to see a clairvoyant, just as a laugh as you do. He was hugely fat, about 20 stone, and he put my engagement ring on the end of his little finger and told me all sorts of things he couldn't possibly have known.
> 
> He was my first experience of anyone like that and I always believed that if he didn't need anything except my ring, then that is how it should be.
> 
> He was very good, told me lots about the future, and my friend too. But the strange thing was he did not know when his wife was planning to run off with his best friend!


everyone has their own views...i know of people who wont go near tarot cards as they believe them to be a spiritual object of the devil!!
tarot cards are a tool used by psychics/mediums etc just as a hammer or chizel is a tool used by a tradesman...IT doesnt not mean you are not or any less psychic than others.

I technically classify myself as a witch not a psychic...if you think about it and read about witchcraft etc they have "gifts" of mediumship which is why they were put to death. I dont have the spell casting and everything else associated with a witch but I do have the gifts and knowledge of them  I even have a cat lol

but my dad swears I was a witch in a past life...I am afraid of large bodies of water, fire and also heights  3 ways witches were killed were by drowning, being thrown off high rocks into water and by fire - something I must say I find rather spooky


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

EDIT- Opps no, right thread! I'm getting myself in such a muddle with open tabs!

The post I put just said that I had my sister do my tarot cards and for outcomes I got the card of death. So I might be finding out about this afterlife sooner than I thought!


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

jenniferx said:


> ignore- wrong thread!


The death card does not in any way symbolise you are going to die or symbolise death. The death card means that there is something in your life coming to an end, chapter where you have learned from your mistakes or even learned about yourself that will help you progress to a new chapter of your life where something will happen for you...this however will be explained to you in the other cards within the spread


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

I also do teacup reading 
which can be very good and is extremely accurate if you have a really good teacup reader


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> The death card does not in any way symbolise you are going to die or symbolise death. The death card means that there is something in your life coming to an end, chapter where you have learned from your mistakes or even learned about yourself that will help you progress to a new chapter of your life where something will happen for you...this however will be explained to you in the other cards within the spread


I can't remember what the other cards specifically were but I think the upshot of it was that they said I was lazy and was hoping to get rich. Which sounds about right. 

Do you not just get different things every time you pick it?


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

jenniferx said:


> I can't remember what the other cards specifically were but I think the upshot of it was that they said I was lazy and was hoping to get rich. Which sounds about right.
> 
> Do you not just get different things every time you pick it?


It depends on the other cards you have in the spread which would explain why the card has come up...but it always symbolizes a new beginning and coming to the end of a chapter within your life.

as for the reading saying your lazy and hoping to get rich...this is not what it would have said, it would have been far deeper and with greater insight


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> everyone has their own views...i know of people who wont go near tarot cards as they believe them to be a spiritual object of the devil!!
> tarot cards are a tool used by psychics/mediums etc just as a hammer or chizel is a tool used by a tradesman...IT doesnt not mean you are not or any less psychic than others.
> 
> I technically classify myself as a witch not a psychic...if you think about it and read about witchcraft etc they have "gifts" of mediumship which is why they were put to death. I dont have the spell casting and everything else associated with a witch but I do have the gifts and knowledge of them  I even have a cat lol
> ...


They are three things I am scared of as well, so perhaps that explains it!


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> It depends on the other cards you have in the spread which would explain why the card has come up...but it always symbolizes a new beginning and coming to the end of a chapter within your life.
> 
> as for the reading saying your lazy and hoping to get rich...this is not what it would have said, it would have been far deeper and with greater insight


They aren't something I really subscribe to to be honest- but thanks for your contribution.


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## ljs85 (Jun 2, 2012)

I'd like to believe in an afterlife but I have my issues with it, like are the Neanderthals there? Does every living thing get to go, even worms? Or do you have to be self aware (dolphins, apes get to go but not the hedgehogs).

On a side note I totally believe in the possibility of aliens being out there in space..... So are they in the afterlife to??


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Javy said:


> "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
> And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
> And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
> Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
> ...


For me too. I believe we are just here in passing. The real deal starts afterwards.


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## wind1 (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm not sure if I believe in life after death but I would like to think my Mum and Dad are together again if there is and that my Aunt and Uncle have been re-united with their son they lost at a young age. I do believe in ghosts and have had a couple of experiences with them


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Mark Walden said:


> Personally I don't like the idea of thinking that is something lacks the evidence then it MUST be something else. If people have regressed under hypnosis, how is that evidence? It could also be so many other factors. The mind is such a complex organ that we know barely anything about, but I don't think we should assume a, b & c unless we have the full evidence to support those claims.
> 
> Never said they shouldn't go together, there are plenty of physicists and scientists that are religious. Thats great in my opinion. People should be open to other peoples views and opinions. I have nothing wrong with people thinking there is a afterlife. I find the idea very fascinating if one day we do come across evidence that supports it.


Ah evidence, the thing is some of the greatest things we have, we can´t touch or see. I think if we really want to find, we will but it takes courage and strenght to do that as sometimes we are scared of changes.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

My grandmother was a well known medium in her day around Yorkshire, and we have gone to spiritualist churches for as long as i can remember even as a child, but it used to scare me when i heard them talking about spirits , i
I have had lots of dreams that have come true, and my eldest son must be psychic, he has described people he has never met, and one night when he was about 18,he dashes into my bedroom,saying his room was like a pub, and a woman was sat on the floor at a mans knee,someone is going to die
The very next day, we were told that the brother of the woman who ran the pub had had a heart attack
I wont go to a spiritualist church now, as the last time i got a message saying something was going to happen, but couldnt say what, and to be there to comfort someone
A few months later my daughters husband who she had recently left, [because of violence] had hung himself


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## ItsonlyChris (Mar 12, 2013)

I believe in the afterlife but I've been brought up as a Christian so I've always belived in life after death because of Heaven and stuff.

Then again, I like different parts of different religions so I like how Hindu writing says that you get reincarnated.

To be honest, I don't mind what happens after we die, if nothing happens it doesn't matter we're dead and if we all go up to Heaven it's a win, heck, coming back as a dog would be pretty amazing.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

"When I come to your world I am like a bird that is imprisoned within a cage and when I leave it I am like a bird joyfully released to wing its way through boundless space. 
What you call death is the opening of the cage and the release of the bird from its prison"
- Silver Birch

There is no death. Life is a continuum.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

No proof of life after death? Many of us have had unmistakeable communications and signs from beyond the grave. 

And then there are NDEs (Near-Death Experiences) Through accident or surgery people 'die', go literally to the gates of death but because it is not their 'time', they come back to tell the tale.

Regardless of sex, age, nationality, culture or creed, the signs are largely the same - out of body experience, floating, passing through a 'tunnel', realm of love, meeting 'deceased' loved ones very much alive, life review, the being of light...

The side effects of hospital drugs? Many NDEs occur nowhere near a hospital, i.e. at home, at work, after a car crash or other accident. People have had NDEs while 'flat lining'...

Fanciful thinking? Most people's minds focus on broadly similar things I suspect. Yet, I have NEVER heard of an NDE, anywhere, ever, that has involved sex, naked women (or men) cars, gold, jewels, money, material possessions, a beach or tropical island, snow. Even the spiritual aspects of NDEs rarely correlate to the individuals orthodox beliefs.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> No proof of life after death? Many of us have had unmistakeable communications and signs from beyond the grave. And then there are NDEs (Near-Death Experiences) Through accident or surgery people 'die', go literally to the gates of death but because it is not their 'time', they come back to tell the tale. Regardless of sex, age, nationality, culture or creed, the signs are largely the same - out of body experience, floating, passing through a 'tunnel', realm of love, meeting 'deceased' loved ones very much alive, life review, the being of light... The side effects of hospital drugs? Many NDEs occur nowhere near a hospital, i.e. at home, at work, after a car crash or other accident. People have had NDEs while 'flat lining'... Fanciful thinking? Most people's minds focus on broadly similar things I suspect. Yet, I have NEVER heard of an NDE, anywhere, ever, that has involved sex, naked women (or men) cars, gold, jewels, money, material possessions, a beach or tropical island, snow. Even the spiritual aspects of NDEs rarely correlate to the individuals orthodox beliefs.


I can't speak for everyone but I don't accept anecdotal evidence as evidence. When I say I want to see evidence for it I mean peer reviewed scientific evidence.

I have no issue with anyone believing what they choose to believe, but personally I prefer to believe in the here and now. I am a woman of science and just can't put my faith into the supernatural...I have thought a lot about it and my brain just can't accept it.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Its the "no proof" isnt it, i have no proof that there is a god,a heaven or afterlife so it hard to believe in something without any evidence personally.


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## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

No. I have not, as of yet, seen no good reason for thinking that we are anything over and above biological physical processes, and anecdotes do not constitute credible evidence.


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## kateh8888 (Aug 9, 2011)

Yes, I do.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Nah - if there was a heaven & hell then both would be pretty chocker block by now


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

No, I do not. In my opinion, "near death experiences" are hallucinations brought on by a failing body. I believe mankind invented the idea of an afterlife due to the (normal) fear of death. Therefore, "carpe diem" is how we should live while alive.
I do, however, believe that in an infinite universe, there are likely other inhabited planets, but I don't know if they have the technology to be able to travel so far to "visit" Earth.


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

No I don't believe in life after death.......


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## davidc (Dec 15, 2010)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> well in all honesty ive always since I was a child believed in life after death...I have what my mother calls "a gift" its something all the women in my family seems to have a form of. As a child it was frightening and as I grew up I have blocked it out. I have always had severe migraines from blocking out what I didnt wnat to see/hear/feel but didnt realise thats what it was until I stopped blocking and starting embracing.
> 
> Im into everything like tarot reading, runes, mediumship, etc
> I guess it just depends on the individual, the fact ive had experiences means I know for sure there is another plain on a spiritual level but people who say they dont believe are those of us who either havent had any form of experience or they have had one that has scared them to the point its easier for them to deny an existence after death


I remember somebody on here doing readings for pf members a while back, may have been last year or the year before, can't remember now. Not sure who it was now.

I was living in a sort of bedsit flat at one point (it wasn't shared but living room was the bedroom) and had despite using this two ring little cooker thing loads of times fine, this time I had just made some beans and was about to unplug it and put it away when I had a feeling that I would get an electric shock if I did! I turned off the electric and the plug came out in half and there was a burn mark on the plug socket. There was nobody with me at the time so if I'd have ignored that I think I would have got an electric shock.

Other things have happened, like a weird dream about my brother who I now don't speak to, I dreamed about something he hadn't told anyone.

Another time he was getting ready to meet me to go my aunts and was taking ages. I was on the phone to him and told him to hurry up. He said he couldn't find his cap (he always wore one). I replied "It's on top of your wardrobe, now hurry up." I don't know how I knew that, daft place to put it, but he said "Oh it is, thanks David."

There have been other things too.


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## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

davidc said:


> I was living in a sort of bedsit flat at one point (it wasn't shared but living room was the bedroom) and had despite using this two ring little cooker thing loads of times fine, this time I had just made some beans and was about to unplug it and put it away when I had a feeling that I would get an electric shock if I did! I turned off the electric and the plug came out in half and there was a burn mark on the plug socket. There was nobody with me at the time so if I'd have ignored that I think I would have got an electric shock.


That sort of thing is fairly common and there is a sound evolutionary explanation. In brief, it is that we are capable of registering threats and responding without being aware of processing that information - there is nothing 'other-worldly' about it.



> Other things have happened, like a weird dream about my brother who I now don't speak to, I dreamed about something he hadn't told anyone.
> 
> Another time he was getting ready to meet me to go my aunts and was taking ages. I was on the phone to him and told him to hurry up. He said he couldn't find his cap (he always wore one). I replied "It's on top of your wardrobe, now hurry up." I don't know how I knew that, daft place to put it, but he said "Oh it is, thanks David."
> 
> There have been other things too.


How do these coincidences have anything to do with the supposition that there is life after death?


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

For those that have religion*/**/***/****: Behave yourself and your beliefs will come true. Don't go around damaging other people's lives just because someone who is not true to your sacred texts told you to do so, follow what is written in the book you live your life by and you will find that you aren't supposed to kill others but embrace everyone, respect everyone and leave this world with a wholesome spirit that is welcomed into your everlasting place of rest or next installment in good favour. Go about your belief quietly and respect that some people don't follow a sacred text, scribe or prophecy but instead believe in something that can be touched and replicated time after time without varying results, this is called science.

For those that don't believe: You believe that it's the end, you cease to exist and the only afterlife is that of your memories that are carried on through your remaining family, so yes, there is an afterlife, it's just that you're not part of it in person. Allow people to believe in what they will if they are not causing damage or hurt to you, your family or others, they are not nutters or fools just because they follow a certain way of life, if it is kept between them and doesn't affect your life then they are entitled to do so.

* religion in some countries is the law, please check the Ts & Cs of a country before entering and if you're born into one of these countries then keep your head down, do as you're told and mind your "p"s and "q"s.

** if you are a woman born into a country built on a strong belief system then may your God help you in every way.

*** if you are a guy born into a country based on a religion and you do not follow your religion casuing pain, suffering and the death of others, may science never find a cure for the horrible affliction I wish upon you to strike you down and cry out for your God for endless days and nights without reply.

**** a tiger's bladder only helps strore the waste fluid (urine) of the tiger. If you wish to make tiger bladder tea to sure your sore throat then go ask a tiger for one. A rhino's horn is used for prowess whne it coems to mating and dealign with intrusive tourist vehicles, it will not make you a better lover or give you a better erection, check your self-esteem and try to achieve something to build your self-esteem up (start with a jig-saw and go from there).


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

I find it fascinating that some people want scientific evidence...well lets look at it this way
if there was to be a study and scientific evidence then someone (a non believer) would need to nearly die in order to see the next plain would they not and then be able to come back and explain what they saw.

how could a scientific study prove the existence of another plain when it is something that is not seen until our time...and then if a non-believer did see the spiritual plain and the life after death would you not then say it wasnt evidence as the "drugs" made them hallucinate? 

its one of those questions that cannot be answered. non believers will continue to not believe and be cynical about it while those who do believe in a spiritual plain will continue to believe. no matter how much evidence, be it from a psychic or some other experience, is set before anyone there will always be someone there to question it and say they need more.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I think so

I've been close to death after my first baby, his also stopped breathing and needed resuscitation after an operation at 14 months, my youngest had a very rough time after his birth he stopped breathing and needed oxygen for the first 5 days of life and was in HDU in NICU 

I believe our grandparents who have passed were there for my eldest and my youngest in sure my oh's nan who died 3weeks before he was born was there making sure he was ok all his set backs he had he's got no lasting issues so fare even tho they thought he might. 

I'm not it's "heaven" like a gOd place or just a place were it is good and nice etc


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> I find it fascinating that some people want scientific evidence...well lets look at it this way
> if there was to be a study and scientific evidence then someone (a non believer) would need to nearly die in order to see the next plain would they not and then be able to come back and explain what they saw.
> 
> how could a scientific study prove the existence of another plain when it is something that is not seen until our time...and then if a non-believer did see the spiritual plain and the life after death would you not then say it wasnt evidence as the "drugs" made them hallucinate?
> ...


What? My dad has always said "The afterlife must be amazing because nobody has ever come back to say otherwise".

A psychic, to give evidence? How come psychics aren't winning the lottery week in week out or bets on sporting outcomes or pre-warning government agencies of global catastrophies or law enforcement officials of crimes or the big one, why do you have to make an appointment to see a psychic, they should know you were going to come at that chosen time and be available and waiting for you?

For anyone who is a psychic on here and wishes to prove to me beyond doubt that they have an ability to see on another plain or another dimension then answer me these:

I have a very memorable date in my head if anyone asks for four numbers, what are they are what do they represent? 
Someone in my family died last year, what relation were they to me and what was their name?
I made two things yesterday, what were they?


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

1. 1994
2. Brother, Bob
3. a poop and an egg on toast


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

hutch6 said:


> What? My dad has always said "The afterlife must be amazing because nobody has ever come back to say otherwise".
> 
> A psychic, to give evidence? How come psychics aren't winning the lottery week in week out or bets on sporting outcomes or pre-warning government agencies of global catastrophies or law enforcement officials of crimes or the big one, why do you have to make an appointment to see a psychic, they should know you were going to come at that chosen time and be available and waiting for you?
> 
> ...


because people who ask exactly what you have just asked do not understand how mediumship works!!
its does not in anyway work like that...also using your ability to predict lottery numbers is personal gain which is not allowed

I am what you would call a psychic, although I tried to not embrace it for years, I do not have control of it and i see things and get messages which I cannot make sense of because I have not been learning to control of progress with my ability. as for your last part and questions you asked...again it does not work like that, a psychic cannot always tell you things you want to know...if someone from your family who passed over into spirit came forward then yes a connection could be made in order to answer your questions or tell you things that only you would know, if someone from spirit does not come forward then the psychic/medium would have a hard time trying to connect as it is upto those who have crossed to come forward if they want to speak.


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## Indiandpuppy (Feb 24, 2013)

Changes said:


> This is a little different to the usual threads I start and I actually can't see this one being deleted or locked hahaha
> 
> So do you believe there is life after death? If you do what do you believe?
> 
> ...


I believe, my granny died last week and I feel that she is with my uncle and her parents now and will watch over us <3


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> because people who ask exactly what you have just asked do not understand how mediumship works!!
> its does not in anyway work like that...also using your ability to predict lottery numbers is personal gain which is not allowed


So why do people have to pay to go for a reading or an appointment with a psychic and where does that money go to if it isn't paying for a living for the psychic? That is personal gain isn't it?


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

hutch6 said:


> So why do people have to pay to go for a reading or an appointment with a psychic and where does that money go to if it isn't paying for a living for the psychic? That is personal gain isn't it?


Because most of the ones you go to see and pay to see are quacks just out to make money. Those psychics who do it professionally are using their "gift" to make a living aswell as helping others who go to see them...in a way yes some would say that is personal gain others would disagree.

If I give tarot card readings or recieve messages I dont make people pay at all...I however cannot speak for those who do take money.

All I can say is I have predicted lottery numbers before and my parents did not listen to me, the numbers all came out apart from 1...I could have put a line on in the lottery but I didnt..It would have been cheating, but then again if I ever do win the lottery ( thats if I even played it to begin with) I would split my money amongst charities and pay off my families debt. other than that all of the money would be sent to various charities.

My cousin is also psychic and has worked with derek acorah. She asks for a fee from people. She goes to their house and all she takes from the money she makes is her travel fair, the rest she makes is split amongst charities...so not everyone who does charge money use it for themselves.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> Because most of the ones you go to see and pay to see are quacks just out to make money. Those psychics who do it professionally are using their "gift" to make a living aswell as helping others who go to see them...in a way yes some would say that is personal gain others would disagree.
> 
> If I give tarot card readings or recieve messages I dont make people pay at all...I however cannot speak for those who do take money.
> 
> ...


So anyone you exchange money with is a quack.
Professional ones use a "gift" but the living they make from it isn't considered personal gain? Aren't they a quack if folk are paying them?

So why not pay off your family's debt and make loads of money for charities that help others rather than allow these other selfish folk who buy massive houses etc to take the money instead?

Woah! I googled Derek Acorah and something came up about a Kreed Kafer, might want to look into that. Not a great deal of credit flying about for that guy.

You can take a whole multitude of courses in psychic related methods, anyone can become a qualified one or taught how to do it.
How did you learn how to interperet the tarrot cards? Did they speak to you or did you have to learn what they meant?

So essentailly if I ever go to a psychic they won't be able to tell me things I want to know, just vague interpretations of random things? Why would I go if they weren't telling me things I wanted to know? I could go down the pub to listen to a load of crap that has no bearing on my being. If I came for a reading and just handed over £10 or whatever it is, then sat there and said nothing you are still able to tell me stuff about my life or events in my life or people that are part of my life without any prompting or anything? I could sit under a sheet so you couldn't see me, my rough age, any personal things that may give you slight hints about who I was and you would be dead on the money about things in my life?

ETA: If it all about helping folk and using it as a "gift" trhen again, why aren't psychics working alongside governments to pre-warn of forthcoming events that cost the lives of innocent people and animals?


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

hutch6 said:


> So anyone you exchange money with is a quack.
> Professional ones use a "gift" but the living they make from it isn't considered personal gain? Aren't they a quack if folk are paying them?
> 
> So why not pay off your family's debt and make loads of money for charities that help others rather than allow these other selfish folk who buy massive houses etc to take the money instead?
> ...


you are clearly not grasping this....the last part

"If it all about helping folk and using it as a "gift" trhen again, why aren't psychics working alongside governments to pre-warn of forthcoming events that cost the lives of innocent people and animals" - because it does not work that way!!!!! i dont know how many times i have to tell you that, no one can sit and say this and this si gonna happen on these days....unless they are really really good.

"Professional ones use a "gift" but the living they make from it isn't considered personal gain? Aren't they a quack if folk are paying them?" - I did not say all of them were quacks I said most were...there are very few genuine people around who are actually psychic and use it as a means of making a living to keep themself instead of being on the dole.

"So why not pay off your family's debt and make loads of money for charities that help others rather than allow these other selfish folk who buy massive houses etc to take the money instead?"- firstly I do not want to go down the road of being a psychic in the open so to speak...I much rather would like to be a published writer and if im honest what i see, hear a feel through the messages I receive frightens me because it is something I try to block out. As stated I could have, but I refuse to enter into the whole personal gain thing.

"Woah! I googled Derek Acorah and something came up about a Kreed Kafer, might want to look into that. Not a great deal of credit flying about for that guy." - regardless of what is said about him he is a genuine decent guy and very lovely to chat too, I did not say he was amazing I merely said my cousin has worked with him.

"You can take a whole multitude of courses in psychic related methods, anyone can become a qualified one or taught how to do it.
How did you learn how to interperet the tarrot cards? Did they speak to you or did you have to learn what they meant?" - this really made me laugh...noit everyone can communicate with those who have passed...yes you can take classes on how to read tarot cards properly or how to read people and their aura but even then you are very limited to what you can say about them or read about them. the tarot cards I taught myself by reading the book about the cards and then learning what each card represented...I also base what the cards mean dependant on what other cards are portrayed withint the spread and whether or not they are of major or the minor. there are a lot of different factors when using them. Also because I am psychic I can sometimes through the cards also get things that are not in the cards but messages that start to come through because a spiritual connection has been made.

"So essentailly if I ever go to a psychic they won't be able to tell me things I want to know, just vague interpretations of random things? Why would I go if they weren't telling me things I wanted to know?" - I did not say that...the chances of a family member actually coming through to speak to you is very high there will always be someone within a family who will come forward however there are cases where no-one wants to come forward therefor you wont receive all the answers you want


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> you are clearly not grasping this....the last part
> 
> "If it all about helping folk and using it as a "gift" trhen again, why aren't psychics working alongside governments to pre-warn of forthcoming events that cost the lives of innocent people and animals" - because it does not work that way!!!!! i dont know how many times i have to tell you that, no one can sit and say this and this si gonna happen on these days....unless they are really really good.
> 
> ...


I am askign questions because it is one of those things where it can't be proved to exist and it can't be proved to not exist except through vague interpretations.

If my questions can't be answered give me the type of question I can ask and I'll ask a question along that format.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I don't really have a faith, but I'd like to think so.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

hutch6 said:


> I am askign questions because it is one of those things where it can't be proved to exist and it can't be proved to not exist except through vague interpretations.
> 
> If my questions can't be answered give me the type of question I can ask and I'll ask a question along that format.


you can ask any question you want...but to do with things on a global scale e.g. disasters, abuse etc cannot be answered unless seen by a psychic...each individual psychic only sees what the person whom they are connected to are supposed to hear/see...if the psychic cannot make a connection to you then your question wont be answered...

:huh: that is exactly what I said in my first post!!! that a conclusion cannot be made either way as others had posted that scientific evidence was needed to prove it which i stated was impossible


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## j4nfr4n (Mar 10, 2013)

i believe there is an afterlife of some form. my mother passed away 18 years ago of a heart attack she had been at my house with all the family at my 50th birthday party because of the sudden death we had to have an autopsy we did'nt view her body until 10days later and she had a smile on her face and i'm sure it was because she had met my father again he had passed away some 23years earlier. since mom passed i feel her with me when i am worried especially since my OH was diagnosed with cancer 4 years ago when i am feeling down i get the strongest smell of freesias these were the flowers we always bought for mom as she was blind and she could picture them from the smell. i know that she helps me when i'm down.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Only in the sense that other things will still be alive even after i die and that some of what was once me may some day be a part of something or someone else.

But not in the sense that i read stuff which isnt really there into everyday occurences and randomly assign it a spiritual cause, nor in the sense that i would beleive any of the charlatans who claim they can talk to the dead (thats just a sick way of preying on the sad and vulnerable) unless the could prove it under reasonable scientific conditions which has only ever happened.... NEVER.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

porps said:


> Only in the sense that other things will still be alive even after i die and that some of what was once me may some day be a part of something or someone else.
> 
> But not in the sense that i read stuff which isnt really there into everyday occurences and randomly assign it a spiritual cause, nor in the sense that i would beleive any of the charlatans who claim they can talk to the dead (thats just a sick way of preying on the sad and vulnerable) unless the could prove it under reasonable scientific conditions which has only ever happened.... NEVER.





GeorgiiePixie said:


> I find it fascinating that some people want scientific evidence...well lets look at it this way
> if there was to be a study and scientific evidence then someone (a non believer) would need to nearly die in order to see the next plain would they not and then be able to come back and explain what they saw.


surely that would only prove life 'just before' death. Or perhaps even hallucinations 'just before' death. What somebody may see (while probably tripping out of their heads from the strain their body/mind is under) on their deathbed doesnt prove anything about what comes after it.

But it's not just about proof. It's about common sense, about logic. There is no reason to beleive it's true because all evidence points to the contrary. There is no reason to take the standpoint "it's true untill some proves it isnt" as oppossed to "it's highly improbable untill somebody proves it to be true". No reason except for fear and wishful thinking. Which of course is fine, whatever gets people through the days is all fine by me so long as it doesnt impact me.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

"surely that would only prove life 'just before' death. Or perhaps even hallucinations 'just before' death. What somebody may see (while probably tripping out of their heads from the strain their body/mind is under) on their deathbed doesnt prove anything about what comes after it"

I was trying to prove a point...something which is clearly not being picked up on 

"nor in the sense that i would beleive any of the charlatans who claim they can talk to the dead (thats just a sick way of preying on the sad and vulnerable)"

I have actually taken a bit of an offence to this comment....not everyone who claims to be able to communicate with those who have passed are lieing nor are they preying on anyone who is vulnerable!!!


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> I have actually taken a bit of an offence to this comment....not everyone who claims to be able to communicate with those who have passed are lieing nor are they preying on anyone who is vulnerable!!!


I am sorry if i caused you offense but i do beleive that people who claim to talk to the dead (or rather, people that claim the dead talk back) are either lying or are mentally ill. Though you are right, that doesnt neccesarily mean they must be preying on the vulnerable so i take that back.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

porps said:


> I am sorry if i caused you offense but i do beleive that people who claim to talk to the dead (or rather, people that claim the dead talk back) are either lying or are mentally ill. Though you are right, that doesnt neccesarily mean they must be preying on the vulnerable so i take that back.


I am not mentally ill either thankyou 
I can speak to people who have passed, I have seen them too
But I do not have a mental illness...it is what my mother calls a "gift"
There are those who can do it and those who cant
I happen to be one who can and when people such as yourself claim I have a mental health issue is again something I take offence too as I am very level headed and smart.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> I am not mentally ill either thankyou
> I can speak to people who have passed, I have seen them too
> But I do not have a mental illness...it is what my mother calls a "gift"
> There are those who can do it and those who cant
> I happen to be one who can and when people such as yourself claim I have a mental health issue is again something I take offence too as I am very level headed and smart.


anyone can speak to people who have passed, it's when they start speaking back that you need to see a doctor.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

porps said:


> anyone can speak to people who have passed, it's when they start speaking back that you need to see a doctor.


They can and do speak back
that is what mediumship is about
connecting with those who have passed and receiving messages from them!!

As for the last part why do you automatically assume that people who speak to those who have passed need a doctor? I find it not only an offensive thing for you to say, afterall everyone has their own beliefs, but also rather insensitive and rude...you may not believe that such a thing can or does exist, thats fair enough your entitled to your opinion, but it is an entirely different thing to voice that opinion and then talk down about those people and their beliefs 

I am far from being mentally ill and I certainly do not need to see a doctor. I am perfectly sane, strong minded and smart.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

i have as much right to voice my opinion as you have to voice yours, and i excercise that right.



GeorgiiePixie said:


> As for the last part why do you automatically assume that people who speak to those who have passed need a doctor?


because hearing voices in your head is often a sign of mental illness. Why do you automatically assume that the voices you hear are of dead people, isnt it MUCH more likely that they are in your head? I mean have you been to see a doctor and told them about it even if only so you can rule out mental illness? Because if you havent ruled out the most obvious it seems silly to assume the very improbable.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

One of the more renowned NDEs of recent times.

Anita Moorjani remembering her magnificence.

Anita Moorjani | NDE Details


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Nobody knew their way around the human mind better than the legendary psychotherapist *Carl Jung*.
He was a man certainly not prone to fanciful thinking. 
His attitude to near-death experiences changed markedly after he underwent one himself!
He said:
"What happens after death is so unspeakably glorious that our imagination and our feelings do not suffice to form even an approximate conception of it..."


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

If you want to know more about the afterlife, any book by Dr Raymond Moody is worth reading.

But my favourite is 'The Art of Dying' by Dr Peter Fenwick and Elizabeth Fenwick. 

From there is this lovely (true) story.
A frail old lady is lying in bed gravely ill, barely conscious. Her daughter records...

'My mother's face lit up with joy. She smiled the most marvellous smile and she seemed to 'come alive'. She suddenly sat up in bed, her arms out towards someone, with a great look of happiness and then after a pause sank back on the pillow and died not long after.'

Her 'time' had arrived and someone, her mother? father? husband? (in spirit) had come to help her across.

Beautiful.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I would pay more heed to psychotherapists if it wernt for the fact Dr zoe d. Katz got a series of accreditations and a PhD in psychotherapy.

zoe is a cat.

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

I'll be honest, I don't believe in spirirts (unless they are behind a bar or in a horible formica "hyacinth Bucket" cabinet with a horrible "bully's special prize" cut glass decanter set and goblets), nor do I believe in an after life or a God or a higher being that created all of this wonderful stuff as they wouldn't have created a species capable of destroying it all.

But..........

Cher - Believe (Offical Music Video) HD-Quality - YouTube


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> 'My mother's face lit up with joy. She smiled the most marvellous smile and she seemed to 'come alive'. She suddenly sat up in bed, her arms out towards someone, with a great look of happiness and then after a pause sank back on the pillow and died not long after.'


Sounds like she had a bit of trapped wind she was getting rid of before eveything stopped functioning. I scooch in my seat, smile and then have a euphoric look on my face after I let rip following a particular bad case of bloat.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

i do believe there is something after death, i don't know what but i truly believe death is not the end.

My OH thinks when we die, we die and thats it, and to be honest that terrifies me, i can't stand the thought of going through the pain of losing my loved ones only to never see them again.

I definately think that whatever happens i will see everyone i knew and loved again, i will see Tummel and my other pets at rainbow bridge and i will be with them forever.

I have seen ghosts before and can feel strange things too, so there must be life after death


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

My major qualms about the afterlife are.... 

1: if its a "if you live a good life you go here" - by which standard is this "goodness" judged - each religion says something different.

2: If we hang around here, wouldnt it be a bit crowded... I dont think Id like to be hanging around the same plane as hitler, or the likes.

3: If we hang around, but only come across people we know, then what about people THEY know but you dont...

4: If you are in the afterlife for eternity, wouldnt that be a bit boring? Or are you not so conscious and self aware that you'd be bored - in which case whats the point?



... I think I would rather just stay dead.


The world is a wonderful, beautiful, amazing and spectacular place filled with amazing, beautiful spectaclar people. Alot of arseholes, for sure, but 1 truely good person is worth 10 arseholes in my books. 
I really dont know why anyone would want to look further than what we already have and revel in the wonder that is the spectacular accident that is "earth" and "life"


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## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> As for the last part why do you automatically assume that people who speak to those who have passed need a doctor? I find it not only an offensive thing for you to say, afterall everyone has their own beliefs, but also rather insensitive and rude...you may not believe that such a thing can or does exist, thats fair enough your entitled to your opinion, but it is an entirely different thing to voice that opinion and then talk down about those people and their beliefs


Let me tell you that, if I heard voices inside my head, I would wonder if I had, e.g., a brain lesion or some sort of psychiatric disorder. That's not impolite, that's a conclusion strongly supported by evidence. Leaping to conclusions about communications from 'beyond' is quite incredible in the face of more mundane evidence and demonstrates an inability to think critically on this subject. I believe that YOU believe, but that does not translate into an objective fact.

In fact, I do 'hear' voices, like a radio playing. And I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE (I'm deaf, it's nerves firing when there is no external input). The first time it happened I just about leapt out of my skin until my audiologist put me right. But at no time did I think I was hearing other-worldly voices. That's just mad.

It is not about "talking down" to people, but about arriving at the most probable conclusion, and such a conclusion is NOT that old Aunt Ethel is having a friendly chat from the 'other side.'


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I do think there is life after death ....I have an open mind to all that sort of thing ie after life/spiritual world/reincarnation etc....

I have always just thought there has to be more....I mean when you think about it in terms of life and death we are dead far far far longer than we are on this earth ...so why would we only experience something for such a short period of time ?? - maybe being on earth is just a test for the real thing ...


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

porps said:


> i have as much right to voice my opinion as you have to voice yours, and i excercise that right.
> 
> because hearing voices in your head is often a sign of mental illness. Why do you automatically assume that the voices you hear are of dead people, isnt it MUCH more likely that they are in your head? I mean have you been to see a doctor and told them about it even if only so you can rule out mental illness? Because if you havent ruled out the most obvious it seems silly to assume the very improbable.


How bloody well dare you sit and say such a thing. Nowhere did I say you could not voice your opinion!! Mental health is not something to be taken lightly, it is something that people who have such an illness have to contend with every day.

I do not automatically assume that voices I hear are dead people, I know for a fact they are actualy people whom I am speaking to whom have passed on...as I said everyone is entitled to their own opinion but being rude towards me and yes it is putting me down by saying i am mentally ill and should go see a doctor to rule out mental health. how dare you.

I will no longer be commenting on this subject because I am not about to take nasty, rude and quite frankly ludacris comments from someone whom is quite clearly so set on their own beliefs, no one else is allowed to have one that is different without being branded "mentally ill"!!

absoutely disgusting in my opinion  
I am perfectly sane, bright, intellectual, strong headed and not at all judgemental - something you quite clearly know nothing about!!

Just for the record I hold a HNC certificate in Psychology and also in Physics. I received higher gradesA and Bs in all subjects (chemistry, english, drama, art, history, home economics). I also received advanced higher grades when I was 11 in both religious studies and music!! I have multiple certificates for different things. I also have worked with people whom have had mental illness and physical disabilities. I have worked with children in a primary school and also am a childrens writer. I am a poet and a lyricist. I can play guitar, drums, recorder and piano.I run my own home, I am creative and make things like cards, trinkets, jewellery, etc. I run the finances within my home and also am currently setting up my own business.... hhmm yeh that really sounds like I am mentally unstable eh!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think everyone does have different opinions on this subject ...but agree that calling someone mentally ill is a bit below the belt ....would be a shame to get the thread closed upsetting people.....I for one have been interested to hear peoples stories - sometimes its best to just brush off what people say  only you truly know yourself and what your gift is etc so dont let others bring you down ...and certainly dont let someone stop you posting on a subject you are interested in


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> I think everyone does have different opinions on this subject ...but agree that calling someone mentally ill is a bit below the belt ....would be a shame to get the thread closed upsetting people.....I for one have been interested to hear peoples stories - sometimes its best to just brush off what people say  only you truly know yourself and what your gift is etc so dont let others bring you down ...and certainly dont let someone stop you posting on a subject you are interested in


Well thats what I felt...I felt it was completely unnescessary to be saying that about anyone especially when there could be people on this forum who do suffer from mental health problems and seeing that is not going to make them feel very nice about themselves.
I am the same, I love hearing the opinions/views of others because I love to have discussions and hear why they believe what they do but I thought what was said was rude and uncalled for. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I dont disagree with people having an opinion but not at the expense of trying to force their own opinion on others, being insensitive or by being downright rude.

I would rather I stop commenting on the thread because I do have a temper when it comes to people "bullying" me or "putting me down"...I went through it my whole life, I dont need it here also.I cannot fully control it and would end up having myself banned by saying something I would later regret, therefor it easier for me not to post anymore about the subject


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> Well thats what I felt...I felt it was completely unnescessary to be saying that about anyone especially when there could be people on this forum who do suffer from mental health problems and seeing that is not going to make them feel very nice about themselves.
> I am the same, I love hearing the opinions/views of others because I love to have discussions and hear why they believe what they do but I thought what was said was rude and uncalled for. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I dont disagree with people having an opinion but not at the expense of trying to force their own opinion on others, being insensitive or by being downright rude.
> 
> I would rather I stop commenting on the thread because I do have a temper when it comes to people "bullying" me or "putting me down"...I went through it my whole life, I dont need it here also.I cannot fully control it and would end up having myself banned by saying something I would later regret, therefor it easier for me not to post anymore about the subject


I totally get what you are saying ...maybe just take a time out from the thread for an hour or so and then come back .....when you feel a bit better - Im sure Porps did not mean any harm - sometimes its the way things are worded they just come out wrong ...xxx


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## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

> I do not automatically assume that voices I hear are dead people, I know for a fact they are actualy people whom I am speaking to whom have passed on...as I said everyone is entitled to their own opinion but being rude towards me and yes it is putting me down by saying i am mentally ill and should go see a doctor to rule out mental health. how dare you.


But you are making a substantive metaphysical claim, whereas it's a brute matter of fact that most people who report hearing voices are neurologically atypical in some way. You do not _know_ that deceased individuals are communicating with you: what you do have is your _own subjective experience_ and there is quite a gulf between experience and knowledge.



> Just for the record I hold a HNC certificate in Psychology and also in Physics. I received higher gradesA and Bs in all subjects (chemistry, english, drama, art, history, home economics). I also received advanced higher grades when I was 11 in both religious studies and music!!


So? Otherwise intelligent people sometimes believe silly things. A roll call of your academic achievements proves very little, and we're interested in your _arguments_ for your position, and whether those arguments can be sustained.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Barcode said:


> But you are making a substantive metaphysical claim, whereas it's a brute matter of fact that most people who report hearing voices are neurologically atypical in some way. You do not _know_ that deceased individuals are communicating with you: what you do have is your _own subjective experience_ and there is quite a gulf between experience and knowledge.
> 
> So? Otherwise intelligent people sometimes believe silly things. A roll call of your academic achievements proves very little, and we're interested in your _arguments_ for your position, and whether those arguments can be sustained.


But with all due respect does that warrant calling someone mentally ill?? not in my book it doesnt....most people who do hear voices in their head the way you are describing are hearing thoughts that could be violent/paranoid - ie schizophrenia or multiple personalities ....not all voices you hear mean you are mentally ill...

BBC NEWS | Health | Voices in the head 'are normal'


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

Barcode said:


> But you are making a substantive metaphysical claim, whereas it's a brute matter of fact that most people who report hearing voices are neurologically atypical in some way. You do not _know_ that deceased individuals are communicating with you: what you do have is your _own subjective experience_ and there is quite a gulf between experience and knowledge.
> 
> So? Otherwise intelligent people sometimes believe silly things. A roll call of your academic achievements proves very little, and we're interested in your _arguments_ for your position, and whether those arguments can be sustained.


believe what you will I am done with the subject, I will no longer sit here and explain my position while being ridiculed by apparent adults


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Dont know about life after death,would love to think that i would get to meet loved ones and pets again...(at the pearly gates obviously!).my gut feeling is when your gone your gone,although its a nice comforting thought.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Barcode said:


> So? Otherwise intelligent people sometimes believe silly things. A roll call of your academic achievements proves very little, and we're interested in your _arguments_ for your position, and whether those arguments can be sustained.


Some of them believe we went to the moon and walked about and drove cars and played golf and stuff.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

if you truely can talk to the dead, james randi will give you a $1million to demonstrate it. But we all know thats not going not happen.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

porps said:


> if you truely can talk to the dead, james randi will give you a $1million to demonstrate it. But we all know thats not going not happen.


Seriously???

That guy owes me $1million then as I have witnesses that can testisfy that I spoke to every dead body I said goodbye to at funerals. I thought anyone could do it as there wwere loads of people speaking the deceased, feel sorry for the minority that can't say goodbye to a dead body.

Have you got his contact details? Don't tell me he's dead and I have to speak with him in a spiritual sense? Why does that ALWAYS happen to me?


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

hutch6 said:


> Seriously???
> 
> That guy owes me $1million then as I have witnesses that can testisfy that I spoke to every dead body I said goodbye to at funerals. I thought anyone could do it as there wwere loads of people speaking the deceased, feel sorry for the minority that can't say goodbye to a dead body.
> 
> Have you got his contact details? Don't tell me he's dead and I have to speak with him in a spiritual sense? Why does that ALWAYS happen to me?


lol you know what i meant! "communicate with the dead" would have been better i suppose. Also witness statements wont be taken as proof, anyone can invent a story and have someone corroborate it. You can easily find the details on google, the prize is still available as in thwe 17 years since it was first offered *not a single person* has been able to demonstrate paranormal abilities.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I think it is very insulting to say someone must be mentally ill to speak to and hear from the dead, 
Even if that is your belief, its wrong to brand someone as being mentally ill, or needing a Doctor
I know there are some charlatans who like to make people believe they can pass messages on etc, but how do you explain someone telling you something which no one else knows about, not even your closest family
It is these charlatans who spoil it for others who are genuine mediums


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

for the record, i didnt CALL anyone mentally ill. I stated that *i beleive* that people who claim that the dead speak to them are either lying *or* mentally ill. As the most probable explainations, I certainly think they should always be ruled out as a possiblitity before we explore the other much more improbable causes for voices in your head.

but no, better to just assume its paranormal, after all what did scientific method ever do for us, right?


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

porps said:


> if you truely can talk to the dead, james randi will give you a $1million to demonstrate it. But we all know thats not going not happen.


firstly if you read my previous comments (which going by this one you havent)
I cannot control my abilities as I denyed them for so long.

secondly it is not something you can turn on or off like a tap!! it happens when it happens and for those who are supposed to receive a message from those who have passed.

thirdly, money is of absolute no interest to me...material objects are of no interest to me therefor paying someone to "prove" they have an ability is just asking for those people who are greedy and driven by material possesion to come forward regardless of whether they do posses the ability to speak to those who have passed or not!! counter productive really 

no matter what evidence ,or how much of it, is put forward to someone such as yourself ,with an extremely closed mind, you will remain within your position of blissful ignorance because it easier to stick to what you have said than to change your outlook and be proven wrong.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

porps said:


> for the record, i didnt CALL anyone mentally ill. I stated that *i beleive* that people who claim that the dead speak to them are either lying *or* mentally ill. As the most probable explainations, I certainly think they should always be ruled out as a possiblitity before we explore the other much more improbable causes for voices in your head.
> 
> but no, better to just assume its paranormal, after all what did scientific method ever do for us, right?


really? you didnt call anyone metally ill or imply that i was? heres a little comment you said to me previously

"because hearing voices in your head is often a sign of mental illness. Why do you automatically assume that the voices you hear are of dead people, isnt it MUCH more likely that they are in your head? I mean have you been to see a doctor and told them about it even if only so you can rule out mental illness?"

so that wasnt you saying that then? hhmmm


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> really? you didnt call anyone metally ill or imply that i was? heres a little comment you said to me previously
> 
> "because hearing voices in your head is often a sign of mental illness. Why do you automatically assume that the voices you hear are of dead people, isnt it MUCH more likely that they are in your head? I mean have you been to see a doctor and told them about it even if only so you can rule out mental illness?"
> 
> so that wasnt you saying that then? hhmmm


Ignore them, they're doing it deliberately for the reaction... nothing better to do with themselves


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

Tigerneko said:


> Ignore them, they're doing it deliberately for the reaction... nothing better to do with themselves


clearly lol  
but it isnt smart they are just making themselves look rather silly, especially by belittling someone


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> thirdly, money is of absolute no interest to me...material objects are of no interest to me therefor paying someone to "prove" they have an ability is just asking for those people who are greedy and driven by material possesion to come forward regardless of whether they do posses the ability to speak to those who have passed or not!! counter productive really
> 
> no matter what evidence ,or how much of it, is put forward to someone such as yourself ,with an extremely closed mind, you will remain within your position of blissful ignorance because it easier to stick to what you have said than to change your outlook and be proven wrong.


so in your opinion there are no practicioners of paranormal abilities out there who would like to prove once and for all that it isnt a load of rubbish? Not a single one? Cos you seem pretty annoyed that i dont beleive you, wouldnt some other "legitimate" paranormal practicioners feel the same way?



GeorgiiePixie said:


> no matter what evidence ,or how much of it, is put forward to someone such as yourself ,with an extremely closed mind, you will remain within your position of blissful ignorance because it easier to stick to what you have said than to change your outlook and be proven wrong.


It is not close minded to refuse to beleive every story anyone tells you without being presented with any evidence to support their claims, and in fact i would gladly change my opinion if evidence were presented. Show me some if you have any.
_Youre so sure of your position
But youre just closed-minded
I think youll find
Your faith in Science and Tests
Is just as blind
As the faith of any fundamentalist

Hm thats a good point, let me think for a bit
Oh wait, my mistake, its absolute bulls***.
Science adjusts its beliefs based on whats observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.

You show me that it works and how it works
And when Ive recovered from the shock
I will take a compass and carve Fancy That on the side of my c***._ tim minchin



GeorgiiePixie said:


> really? you didnt call anyone metally ill or imply that i was? heres a little comment you said to me previously
> 
> "because hearing voices in your head is often a sign of mental illness. Why do you automatically assume that the voices you hear are of dead people, isnt it MUCH more likely that they are in your head? I mean have you been to see a doctor and told them about it even if only so you can rule out mental illness?"
> 
> so that wasnt you saying that then? hhmmm


No it was me answering your question in the first part, and then asking a question in the seond part and stating that if you dont rule out the most probable explainations then it is silly to jump to the most unlikely conclusion.



Tigerneko said:


> Ignore them, they're doing it deliberately for the reaction... nothing better to do with themselves


wrong, i'm doing it because the thread asked for opinions on the subject, and then after i gave mine somebody decided that everything i said must be directly aimed at them and took offense to it.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

porps said:


> wrong, i'm doing it because the thread asked for opinions on the subject, and then after i gave mine somebody decided that everything i said must be directly aimed at them and took offense to it.


Alright then, of course you are  :


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> firstly if you read my previous comments (which going by this one you havent)
> I cannot control my abilities as I denyed them for so long.
> 
> secondly it is not something you can turn on or off like a tap!! it happens when it happens and for those who are supposed to receive a message from those who have passed.
> ...


I dont want to comment on the non bold stuff as I cannot comment on this... however with regards to the comments in bold, as has been mentioned several times in this thread anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence. That is why its not accepted. What you see as "evidence" is essentially "my word against yours"; it cannot be verified, it cannot be repeated under controlled conditions - it is not evidence.

I am not saying what you experience is or is not true, but I can say that I do not accept your anecdotes as solid evidence by which I can form an opinion.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

porps said:


> if you truely can talk to the dead, james randi will give you a $1million to demonstrate it. But we all know thats not going not happen.


And Victor Zammit will give YOU a $1 million if you can prove that she (and others) can't.

AFTERLIFE LAWYER PRESENTS THE EVIDENCE FOR LIFE AFTER DEATH AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE


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## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

wow! still open, well done  xx


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

grumpy goby said:


> I dont want to comment on the non bold stuff as I cannot comment on this... however with regards to the comments in bold, as has been mentioned several times in this thread anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence. That is why its not accepted. What you see as "evidence" is essentially "my word against yours"; it cannot be verified, it cannot be repeated under controlled conditions - it is not evidence.
> 
> I am not saying what you experience is or is not true, but I can say that I do not accept your anecdotes as solid evidence by which I can form an opinion.


that last part in bold was not refering to posts on here or things i have or could have said or anyone else for that matter... i was talking about any evidence regardless of what that evidence is


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> And Victor Zammit will give YOU a $1 million if you can prove that she (and others) can't.
> 
> AFTERLIFE LAWYER PRESENTS THE EVIDENCE FOR LIFE AFTER DEATH AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE


i dont really know how you would prove someone elses lack of ability but i do know how you would prove an abilty that you really have. I have the ability to walk into my kitchen and make a coffee for example, and i can prove it under reasonable sicientifc conditions.

Yours (and zammits) proposal is ridulous. "prove a negative, if you cant then it must be true". If thats the stance we take then i can fly but i can only do it when i am not observed. prove that i cant otherwise its true. Does this pass for logic to you? It's just an appeal to ignorance. Lack of evidence against is not the same thing as evidence for.

If he is so sure of it why hasnt he proved it? in fact did he point blank refused.

Victor Zammit refuses the challenge


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> And Victor Zammit will give YOU a $1 million if you can prove that she (and others) can't.
> 
> AFTERLIFE LAWYER PRESENTS THE EVIDENCE FOR LIFE AFTER DEATH AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE


Oh dear. Can I sit with her whilst she talks to my dead relatives and friends then and ask her to ask them questions only I would know the answer to? I could retire.

That guy sounds drunk and somehow believes that evidence submitted by a lawyer on a scientific basis holds more value than evidence submitted by one of the greatest physicists the world has ever seen. Has he never had a professional in a scientific field give evidence in one of his cases as a lawyer? 
He also lists Conan Doyle at the top of the list of "great scientist that believe in the afterlife", the guy was fooled by two little girls in the next village to mine that fairies existed in what is probably the very first photoshop Tom Foolery. The guy is a crock of proverbial and full of self importance beyond anything I've ever seen.
What is the realm of the light? Do animals not have spirits? Why aren't there shed loads of ghosts seen on a daily basis and captured on video? Why have I never seen one?


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

porps said:


> i dont really know how you would prove someone elses lack of ability but i do know how you would prove an abilty that you really have. I have the ability to walk into my kitchen and make a coffee for example, and i can prove it under reasonable sicientifc conditions.
> 
> Yours (and zammits) proposal is ridulous. "prove a negative, if you cant then it must be true". If thats the stance we take then i can fly but i can only do it when i am not observed. prove that i cant otherwise its true. Does this pass for logic to you? It's just an appeal to ignorance. Lack of evidence against is not the same thing as evidence for.
> 
> ...


Yes, but you were quick enough to quote Randi and his $1 million dollar challenge, which he is never going to honour.
And he has for over ten years refused to take up Mr Zammit's challenge.

Sure there are many frauds and charlatans in this field (Ironically Randi referred to himself as being a 'professional charlatan') I have no truck with them or anyone, even if they are gifted, who self-promotes or seeks to make money out of spiritual matters. What greater privilege is there than the honour of helping a fellow soul along? As if that is not 'riches' enough.

But that does not detract from the substantial body of evidence for survival of the spirit and psychic capabilities.
There are literally thousands of NDE accounts from all over the globe, channellings, countless signs and communications (which are not spoken) from loved ones who have passed over - many here have experienced such as these, I certainly have. 
You may not have experienced them, or maybe a 'deceased' loved one did send you a sign but you missed it, but that does not mean it isn't so.

Much arguing in this thread, which is pointless. We're all going to die, maybe sooner than we'd like, or maybe not soon enough, either way it is inevitable - and so is the survival of one's spirit.

Even though you are sceptical, the knowledge is in you and will kick in at the time, or one of your 'deceased' loved ones will come for you, like 'the old lady' further back in another of my posts.
The important thing is to order one's life appropiately. A life well lived and all that.


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

*I tend to believe there is life after death, because of all the things I've seen happening around my house that I wish there were other family or even friends with me when these incidents happened. The recent incident happened when my dogs and cat and I, who were the only ones in the house when this incident happened, and all of the dogs and cat were sleeping, when one of my heavy chairs began lifting up in mid-air! I went to check it out in case one or both of my kids were playing a trick on me, but there were no wires, fishing line, or anything holding the chair up!  On top of that, I've noticed a familiar odor, an odor my late-father smelled of, and that was the Old Spice cologne he used to wear that I don't even have in my house and my son doesn't use it either!  As soon as I smelled that, the smell disappeared as quickly as it began. If this keeps up, I may have no other choice but to call in a paranormal group to investigate before something gets out of hand and possibly harms my family, my pets, or even me.

Don't get me wrong, I try to remain as skeptic as I can, but there has to be something that tells me there's life after death. I mean, scientists or any other skeptic may say there is a logical explanation to everything, but when it comes studying these claims, they still won't believe what they're seeing or hearing, even when it something shows up on their equipment, because they hold on to the reasoning that there has to be some logical explanation for that event to be happening. And, for those people who have had "Near Death Experiences" themselves, these scientists and other skeptics explain it as some trauma or whatever to the brain and give it a psychological name. From one who has experienced "Near Death Experiences" myself, I can also conclude that when explaining this to doctors, it seems they haven't been listening to what I've seen and heard, so it seems they haven't been listening to what other patients have been telling them either.

As for as using any kind of equipment to find "ghosts", they may pick up on something, but the equipment is far from perfect. Let's face it, we might think we live "in a perfect world", but it isn't; nothing is exact or be of exact of any measurement in this physical world, so whatever equipment or technology we have now or that comes in the future, none of them will be able to really explore the spiritual world, because they're aren't programmed or made to operate in the spiritual world. There's no way we can make such technology that can operate in the spiritual world, because we don't know the specifications of the spiritual world.

Psychics? I don't tend to believe in them. How would I know what information was fed to them is legitimate? When it comes to psychics, any aforeknowledge or information I would like to have strict control in order to know what they're telling me is true or not.

However, whatever unexplainable incidents that has been happening here, I find myself with no other option of seeking some reputable paranormal group to investigate what is going on here. Now, I think this is going to be interesting in my own opinion. Hopefully I won't have to call in a priest to exorcise my house and/or my property. :

I will let you all know how this comes out as soon as possible.*


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> But that does not detract from the substantial body of evidence for survival of the spirit and psychic capabilities.
> There are literally thousands of NDE accounts from all over the globe, channellings, countless signs and communications (which are not spoken) from loved ones who have passed over - many here have experienced such as these, I certainly have.


You seem to be confusing anecdotes and personal interpretation with *evidence.*

_"Just 'cause you feel it, it doesnt mean it's there"_ -Thom yorke



Knightofalbion said:


> You may not have experienced them, or maybe a 'deceased' loved one did send you a sign but you missed it, but that does not mean it isn't so.


or maybe i dont read signs into every little thing that happens to me.



Knightofalbion said:


> Even though you are sceptical, the knowledge is in you and will kick in at the time, or one of your 'deceased' loved ones will come for you, like 'the old lady' further back in another of my posts.


Even though you have convinced yourself to beleive the knowledge is in you and you will kick it in time.

There are mysteries out there.. but there are answers too and we wont find them by simply concluding that events we dont understand must have a supernatural cause.

_"throughout history
every mystery
ever solved
has turned out to be
NOT magic"_ -Tim Minchin


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> that last part in bold was not refering to posts on here or things i have or could have said or anyone else for that matter... i was talking about any evidence regardless of what that evidence is


Then your probably right, they won't be accepted, because I don't think any 'evidence' that would be presented is scientifically sound. If there is any peer reviewed studies and solid evidence on such things I certainly haven't seen it, so I would be interested in reading anything there is available?

If there was solid evidence that proves any other plane of existence that some people have access to... be it evidence of a different visual spectrum, or function of the brain which is picking up inputs from unknown sources in certain individuals that believe themselves to be spiritually attuned etc, then I would certainly re evaluate my views. Thus far I haven't been presented such info and thus my beliefs are as they are.

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

porps said:


> You seem to be confusing anecdotes and personal interpretation with *evidence.*
> 
> _"Just 'cause you feel it, it doesnt mean it's there"_ -Thom yorke
> 
> ...


YOU are the master of your Fate:
YOU are the captain of your soul.


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## Antony80 (Jan 24, 2013)

Just my two pennies worth.....

Firstly, people who claim to communicate with the dead. I do not believe this at all. It is a centuries old technique called cold reading. Look it up on the web, there's so much information available on it that most people could probably learn how to become a 'psychic'! 
There's a very good Derren Brown video on youtube in which he explains and demonstrates exactly how it's done. He has also been asking to meet with Psychic Sally for god know's how long, not to try and debunk her, but to give her the opportunity to present eveidence to prove her claims. Suprise, surprise she has never agreed to meet him.

Secondly, some posters have mentioned that they believe in reincarnation or the after life as they often get the sensation that they have been to a certain place or experienced something before, even though they know they have not. Have these people not heard of deja vu? It's easily explained: The input (what you're seeing, the conversation you're having, etc) enters the brain and instead of being sent to the area of the brain that deals with short term memory to be processed, it is diverted straight to the part of the brain that deals with long term memories without being processed. Hence why you experience the sensation of the particular event being a memory. Again, there's loads of information about it on the web.

Thirdly, near death experiences. The most logical explanation for this would be that this is just part of the natural process of the brain / body shutting down. Think about it, if you're dying you're going to be scared out of your mind. What better why for your body to cope with this than to release a **** load of adrenalin and endorphins to make you feel safe and loved.
Also, the fact that all NDE's follow a similar theme is not evidence. It's what we've been taught to believe happens. Go and ask anyone in the street what they would expect to see during a so called near death experience and they'll all tell you the same thing - long tunnel, light at the end, family members, etc. We've been conditioned to believe this is what will happen and so subcontiously our brains witll project this image!

I have seen things in the past that I cannot explain and it would be easy to say it was a 'spirit'. However, I believe there is far more logical explanation for these events than a dead person has been wandering around my house and until it's proved otherwise my view point will remain. I think most ghost sightings are manifested in the brain, either the brain interprets what you saw incorrectly making you believe the only explanation is that you're seeing a ghost or you're actually seeing nothing and the brain plants the image in your mind when it process the information - kind of like photoshop!!

But after all that, if it comforts others to believe there is something else beyond this life then who am I to argue.


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

I would love to believe in the afterlife, so I persuade myself there is one - knowing that really, there probably isn't, but it brings me comfort. If I couldn't tell myself I could see all my family and dogs again one day it'd be awful, it's just what I've always done to cope with death.

Reading the comments about deja vu were interesting, I never knew that was why it happened. I have had a couple of experiences when I've dreamed a scene of some sort, and it's happened a little while later - it seems like deja vu at the time. Very odd, I can't explain it, and no I'm not claiming I'm psychic  Just one of those things.

I've also dreamt where to find lost things of my own, but that's easily explained - just my mind remembering where I put them.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

NO, dont believe any of it, and tbh too busy living my life to think about it and I am knackered now, when I die I am glad there is no more x


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Why does anything which is odd or strange have to be the "supernatural"??? As I child I often saw things that I was sure were ghosts. However, I am sure it was a result of my overactive imagination and wishful thinking, rather than spirits from beyond.
Isn't science enough of a marvel? To me, the amazing things that have been developed just in my lifetime are incredible enough: computers, the internet, medical innovations, biochemistry, electricity..the list is endless. Who needs dead people?
Thje brain is an amazing organ and brain chemistry can fool most of us into believing things that are not there. A simple brain tumour can create hallucinatory affects like smells, sounds and sensations. Once again, a scientific explanation is more likely than someone's dead granny speaking to them.
In any case, I find the "I cannot use my gifts for my own gain" hard to swallow. Why can't you win the lotto? Is there a medium police force watching somewhere?


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> *In any case, I find the "I cannot use my gifts for my own gain" hard to swallow. Why can't you win the lotto? Is there a medium police force watching somewhere?*


to frippin right, they could predict the lottery numbers win and give it all to charities/people in need !! JMO codswallop


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

ever heard of karma


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> ever heard of karma


yes but if you dont believe in it then it has no effect!!


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

well i believe in karma, spiritual other worldly things and all that so karma is a very real thing for me...especially under the personal gain rule


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

but I dont - see its not about what is real/true/ or in existence its about what you personally believe x and belief is not evidence its personal x


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

but if one believes then that is all the evidence they need


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> but if one believes then that is all the evidence they need


thats very true 

I dont think those who dont believe in it all dont fully understand why it would matter to someone who does believe...they look at it as excuses when in actual fact because me and others believe in it, it is very real for us


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

I don't believe in life after death, in fact I'm counting on it being nothing. There is nothing more comforting to me to believe that there is nothing after all of this. I'm hoping there's just a big blank, like before your born. I'm just too tired too contemplate that there could be something after this existence. Its too depressing to even think about!

I'm not depressed but at 24 I am ready for the big sleep. I don't want to live forever and I look forward to death (hopefully a peaceful one!).

ETA: I'm a practising wiccan (who doesn't pray to deities or believe in the summerlands). I do tarot and rune readings for myself and those closest to me and there is nothing to suggest that psychic ability has ANYTHING to do with reading cards/runes. 

I have seen ghosts, I don't believe they exist as I realise it was my over active imagination/frame of mind at the time.

GeorgiePixie please don't say you believe these things because of being a witch as every wiccan/pagan/heathen/druid has very different beliefs but due to generalisations many will think its a wide scale belief that many of us have and it is definitely not!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> thats very true
> 
> I dont think those who dont believe in it all dont fully understand why it would matter to someone who does believe...they look at it as excuses when in actual fact because me and others believe in it, it is very real for us


Exactly hun each to their own I say - would'nt the world be a boring place if we all thought alike :blink:


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> YOU are the master of your Fate:


this seems contradictory to me. If i am the master of what happens in my future then it is not fate. If it is fate than i am not the master of it. Fate to me is an incredibly depressing concept which means that what will be has already been decided. I dont beleive in it at all.



Knightofalbion said:


> YOU are the captain of your soul.


There is no evidence for the existence of a soul.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

"GeorgiePixie please don't say you believe these things because of being a witch as every wiccan/pagan/heathen/druid has very different beliefs but due to generalisations many will think its a wide scale belief that many of us have and it is definitely not!"

i never stated that i believed myself to be a witch based on my beliefs of supernatural or powers i may posess


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

I was referring to this post



> I technically classify myself as a witch not a psychic...if you think about it and read about witchcraft etc they have "gifts" of mediumship which is why they were put to death. I dont have the spell casting and everything else associated with a witch but I do have the gifts and knowledge of them I even have a cat lol
> 
> but my dad swears I was a witch in a past life...I am afraid of large bodies of water, fire and also heights 3 ways witches were killed were by drowning, being thrown off high rocks into water and by fire - something I must say I find rather spooky


Which to me reads that you feel your a witch because of these things. I'm not wanting to get in to an argument, it just worries me that people will think your beliefs are a standard for wiccan belief which is not the case in a lot of circles. In fact, I'm pretty sure I belief almost the complete opposite from you.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> I was referring to this post
> 
> Which to me reads that you feel your a witch because of these things. I'm not wanting to get in to an argument, it just worries me that people will think your beliefs are a standard for wiccan belief which is not the case in a lot of circles. In fact, I'm pretty sure I belief almost the complete opposite from you.


well i apologise if this is how it has come across as it is certainly not what i meant...i have trouble trying to put into words what i mean therefor can come across differently to how i intend it to 

also i was stating that witches "heard voices" and were put to do death so could it not have been that they also posessed powers to speak to those who had passed like a psychic/medium does


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> well i apologise if this is how it has come across as it is certainly not what i meant...i have trouble trying to put into words what i mean therefor can come across differently to how i intend it to
> 
> also i was stating that witches "heard voices" and were put to do death so could it not have been that they also posessed powers to speak to those who had passed like a psychic/medium does


I can't comment on that last part as I do not believe people can converse with dead. Honour yes, talk to no. I believe they were killed because they dared to believe differently from the Christian movement. But that is another debate entirely 

I appreciate the apology, I too have trouble expressing my feeling sometimes


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> I can't comment on that as I do not believe people can converse with dead. Honour yes, talk to no. I believe they were killed because they dared to believe differently from the Christian movement. But that is another debate entirely


well that could be another reason as to why that happened. But i do believe that although they were accused of being witches they were possibly mediums (in my opinion because i believe in mediumship, etc)

I must say though witchcraft is something which has always fascinated me since i was a little girl and something which I am still very interested in. I read tarot cards and am only just familiarising myself on how to read runes (although i have always been interested in them) I also read tea leafes, but i think that was more of a "gypsy" style


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> but if one believes then that is all the evidence they need


but that is not evidence of existence, nor should it be offered as, I dont believe it, think its total tosh, but I dont berate those that do - but I can not also accept personal belief as evidence x


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> thats very true
> 
> *I dont think those who dont believe in it all dont fully understand why it would matter to someone who does believe*...they look at it as excuses when in actual fact because me and others believe in it, it is very real for us


I do understand the reality you 'believe' in - but I dont appreciate being told it is real based on the evidence of your belief, then my reply would be to you "* I dont think that those who believe fully understand why it does not matter to someone who does not!*"

each to their own - and different strokes for different folks x


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> I do understand the reality you 'believe' in - but I dont appreciate being told it is real based on the evidence of your belief, then my reply would be to you "* I dont think that those who believe fully understand why it does not matter to someone who does not!*"
> 
> each to their own - and different strokes for different folks x


well you would be mistaken as i fully understand it...as for "I dont appreciate being told it is real based on the evidence of your belief" i never once said that anyone who does not believe should believe based on my own personal beliefes and experiences...quite the contrary, i merely stated i believe because of such


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

No I do not believe in life after death, reincarnation, ghosts, souls or that anyone is able to communicate with the dead.

I do believe people when they say they have seen `things` or experienced `things`I just don`t think their reasoning that it must be something supernatural is correct.

Recently my niece and I had a situation of lights going on and of together with taps and shower suddenly coming on.

We both saw the same thing but my niece thinks it was a ghost. I think it was the electrics and plumbing in the house playing up.

My niece ( who then said she heard giggling I must be deaf I heard no giggling) thinks it is a ghost of child letting us know they are there.

I can see no logic in that at all, why would a ghost just turn on lights and run water to let us know they are there? If they can do that why not just appear, introduce themselves even write something on paper.

I did suggest to the `ghost` that if they wanted to mess around with water and electrics they could stick the kettle on mine was a tea, milk no sugar. Funnily enough I never got that cup of tea!!

There is no doubt that we both saw same thing, just that niece, because she believes in ghosts, the after life and clairvoyents(sorry bad spelling) decides we must have ghost in the house, I don`t believe in the supernatural so decide it is a blip in plumbing/electrics.

I don`t think there is anything wrong in my niece`s opinions (OK I did take the p*** out of her that night but only because I know her and she wasn`t going to take offence) each to their own I say.


It is when people talk about there own experiences and indeed what they have read of others NDE and ghostly goings on and say this is evidence of life after death etc, I find odd. It is not evidence, it is just a conclusion they have come to based on their beliefs, and while I totally support their right belief in whatever they wish I really can not see how it suddenly becomes evidence of anything.


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

3dogs2cats said:


> No I do not believe in life after death, reincarnation, ghosts, souls or that anyone is able to communicate with the dead.
> 
> I do believe people when they say they have seen `things` or experienced `things`I just don`t think their reasoning that it must be something supernatural is correct.
> 
> ...


From what I've read and have been told, "ghosts", "spirits", or whatever can manipulate our surroundings by manipulating the energy thereof to get our attention. Maybe that's why one of my chairs, which weighs a little bit more than 100 pounds (a little bit more than 7 stones), lifted halfway in mid-air, which that in itself was about five feet high! 

The situation in my house got worse last night. When I came home, my kids were screaming, which I thought they were fighting, but when I got closer to the house, I saw they were afraid, then saw a couple of my lamps and other objects fly across the living room, and heard the dogs barking and howling, the cat hissing and striking out at something there none of us could see. I rushed inside, nearly got hit by one of my heavier lamps as it flew by my head, but when I went to look, there was no one else there. I told my kids to get and take the animals out of the house with them, then I went on to check the rest of the house. Things temporarily stopped as I checked the whole house, then it started up again. Only this time, there was this horrible smell like sulfur, rotting smell of bodies, and I felt this "heaviness" in the air. I couldn't take the smell any longer and got the heck out of there.

Then, I went over to the barn, because the horses were making a lot of noises there too, so I got them and took them to my pick-up truck, where my daughter helped me tie them. She told me all the dogs, the cat, and her brother were already in the pick-up, then we headed for my mother's house. This is where we're staying until this "thing" is over.

I've called the paranormal team and they're on their way.

I can't wait until the nightmare is over...


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Well there you are. Any of the sceptics care to volunteer to spend the night in your place I wonder?

What is the history of the house or area, Steve? 

Definitely sounds like an earthbound spirit. 
Maybe someone met with a violent end many years ago and has been unable to move on?
In olden days many people had the cast iron belief that there was nothing after death but a long sleep till (the allegorical) Judgement Day. Could be someone can't accept they're 'dead' and sees you as intruding on their property?

Their is usually a cold, clammy feeling in the air if there is a ghost.

You've called in a team of paranormal experts? That's the right thing to do. The spirit needs to be dismissed/freed, for its own sake as much as yours.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Knightofalbion said:


> Well there you are. Any of the sceptics care to volunteer to spend the night in your place I wonder?
> 
> What is the history of the house or area, Steve?
> 
> ...


I'd spend the night there. No fears for me.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> Well there you are. Any of the sceptics care to volunteer to spend the night in your place I wonder?
> .


gladly if you want to pay my airfare for me.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Strong words in the bathroom.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> Strong words in the bathroom.


not sure what that means. I googled it in case it's some old saying that im not aware of but nothing came up.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> *Well there you are. Any of the sceptics care to volunteer to spend the night in your place I wonder?*
> 
> What is the history of the house or area, Steve?
> 
> ...


yup no problems as you cant fear what you dont believe!!


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

porps said:


> not sure what that means. I googled it in case it's some old saying that im not aware of but nothing came up.


me too lol!!


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Nope.... I think we turn into worm food and that's that!


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

Knightofalbion said:


> Well there you are. Any of the sceptics care to volunteer to spend the night in your place I wonder?
> 
> What is the history of the house or area, Steve?
> 
> ...


I'd stay. If its near LA I'd stay when I visit my friend. I'd love to believe but rational brain says "no" until proven otherwise. I'd be happy to have a reason to believe 

Though, to be fair, Derrin Brown managed to convince skeptics there was a ghost present. Spooky doesn't automatically mean ghostie!


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> Well there you are. Any of the sceptics care to volunteer to spend the night in your place I wonder?
> 
> What is the history of the house or area, Steve?
> 
> ...


*As far as I can ascertain from my property records, the land did belong to the Shawnee tribe more than 300 years ago, until a settler built his home, a small log cabin, some 275 feet from where my house currently sits. I can't read the name of the settler though, because the ink looks somewhat smeared, but the settler did have some education, according to what he has written. Not much else about the property at this time, so that means I'll have to keep digging for more information. Isn't it ironic how a "little paranormal activity" makes one decide to research more on their property's history.

Maybe I'm brave or just plain stupid, but my two brothers and I went back into the house to get some things we needed. Things seemed to have calmed down until my one brother says, "Have you noticed the air in the house feels heavy?" and the other brother pipes in to say, "Where in hell is that smell coming from?"

The next thing that happened was that all three of us were knocked on our backsides, when this very icy, "cob webby", electrostatic breeze went right through us. Right after that, I heard my brothers yell, "Steve, what in the world is that?", so when I looked, we saw this big, black glob shaped thing crawling all over the ceiling and walls, then it came down onto the floor before standing up.

I shouted at it to "GET THE F**K OUT OF MY HOUSE!" and the next thing I knew, I was flying backwards, over the one chair, and landing on my backside again. Something tells me I shouldn't have done that, but I was p*ssed, because of all the time my family and I have lived there, nothing like this has ever happened before - I mean, the house was calm, quiet, and comfortable, until these events happened. Now, I've got to figure what to do to get my house and/or property back to normal, so my kids, my pets, and I can get back to our normal lives.

Now, my brothers and I weren't going to let that "thing" scare us out of the house that fast. No. We grabbed some other things we might need, just before the paranormal activity started right back up, this time all the radios, stereos, televisions, computers, and a host of other electronic devices and appliances turned on and began switching channels. I think it is interesting how some of the old clock radios and radios I still have that don't have battery back-up and wasn't plugged into the sockets came on without the usual power sources. The last thing I heard when I went out of the door was "Steve, look out!" and that was coming from my big TV. Not a second too late either, because a big log came through the glass of the door my brothers and I had exited.  Before anything else happened, we even put a plyboard up over where the window was, but don't worry, I'll be right back.

I'll be right back. Famous last words, right? Hey, I intend to fight this thing and get it out of my house and off my property, no matter what it takes.

Did I tell you I've also consulted a Catholic priest to do a possible exorcism on the house and property? Yes, I think I'm going to need "The Big Guns" on this case. *


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I do believe Steves house has some paranormal activity, i have also witnessed chairs being lifted, too heavy for it to be a draught or wind, 
Also in the same house this happened, i used to hear footsteps on stairs that didnt exist, 
I had only recently moved into this house so knew nothing of its history
I told a neighbour i got talking to a few weeks later, and it turned out that where the sound of footsteps came from, there used to be a conservatory, built onto the back of the house,where a young girl slept,who had died from TB years before
Also tapping on the bedroom doors, 
Nothing as scary as Steve is experiencing though,thank goodness
Another house i lived in later, had the sound of someone sawing wood,in one of the bedrooms where my sons slept, then a sound of someone falling downstairs, i later found out that an old man who lived there at one time used that room as a joinery workshop, and had died falling downstairs, 
It didnt frighten me though,as it didnt seem to have an unfriendly feel


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

What is it exactly that a paranormal team do?
And this probably sounds flippant but - what if the ghost is a protestant? What is the religious element? Like why is it going to answer to a catholic priest but wants to beat Steve up?


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)




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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

K9Steve said:


> *As far as I can ascertain from my property records, the land did belong to the Shawnee tribe more than 300 years ago, until a settler built his home, a small log cabin, some 275 feet from where my house currently sits. I can't read the name of the settler though, because the ink looks somewhat smeared, but the settler did have some education, according to what he has written. Not much else about the property at this time, so that means I'll have to keep digging for more information. Isn't it ironic how a "little paranormal activity" makes one decide to research more on their property's history.
> 
> Maybe I'm brave or just plain stupid, but my two brothers and I went back into the house to get some things we needed. Things seemed to have calmed down until my one brother says, "Have you noticed the air in the house feels heavy?" and the other brother pipes in to say, "Where in hell is that smell coming from?"
> 
> ...


My goodness....

Shawnee land? Was it sacred land? (i.e. burial ground.) 
That being said, from what you've described I don't think it's offended Shawnee spirits. 'Too dark', not their style.

I'm thinking someone in the past has been doing stuff they shouldn't have been doing...

My advice: If it is all as you've said, then yes, you need an exorcism done. The Catholic priest exorcist or a spiritualist exorcist.

And after that, if and when normality has been restored, buy copious amounts of garlic, onions and salt to cleanse the house.

Salt is a wonderful purifier and cleanses negative energies.

The use of garlic has been made into a joke over the years, but there is a great truth behind it. It too is a great purifier. Garlic and onions absorb negative energies, including those of a psychic nature. Halve them, place around rooms. Leave them overnight. In the morning gather them all up - don't touch them, stick them. Take them outside and burn them.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

jaycee05 said:


> Another house i lived in later, had the sound of someone sawing wood,in one of the bedrooms where my sons slept, then a sound of someone falling downstairs, i later found out that an old man who lived there at one time used that room as a joinery workshop, and had died falling downstairs,
> It didnt frighten me though,as it didnt seem to have an unfriendly feel


(This is something entirely different to Steve's occurence)

"It didn't frighten me"... Quite right. Perfectly innocuous. It's just spirit. Just spirit.


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

jenniferx said:


> What is it exactly that a paranormal team do?
> And this probably sounds flippant but - what if the ghost is a protestant? What is the religious element? Like why is it going to answer to a catholic priest but wants to beat Steve up?


*A paranormal team investigates the problem by going in, provoking it, and does other things while recording this on different types of equipment. Some bring psychics with them, but this team I got won't do that until they've done an initial investigation. Also, they will either "suggest" ways to get rid of the problem or "clean" (get rid) of the problem itself.

I will have the Catholic priest there too. If that "spirit" or "ghost" is Protestant or any other religion, it is going to be p*ssed, because this exorcism is going to be a long, cleaning process with all the religious literagy with it. :laugh:

I might be laughing now, but since I have to be there too (I don't want the kids there), and this thing shows up, I think I'm going to get my butt kicked again. As I've mentioned earlier, it has knocked my brothers and me on our backsides already, so I know it will have another round with me.

You know, I am wondering that if it is a "spirit" or "ghost" from the Shawnee tribe, and part of my ancestory is Shawnee, if it will respond to some of the language I was taught, if I spoke to it in its language? :001_unsure:

Either way, I know I can't wait for this to be done, the nightmare over, and we (the kids, pets, and I) can move back into our home.*


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I'm not really certain what I believe - I know I've had some whacky deja vus on people and places which can only be explained really by having been here before - meaning they must have existed as humans in a previous life - and that I must have been here before to "recognise people and places I don't know / have never been"

Similarly, there have been "strange occurrences" since my dad died - my sister (who is the most level headed, matter of fact person I've ever met) - said that the night before we scattered my dads ashes - he "grumbled and whinged at her all night" - because the urn was in his brothers diesel car - my dad HATED diesels with a vengeance.

Another time, his brother was going through one of the drawers at mums and came across a watch he liked - mum told him it hadn't worked for years - dad had replaced batteries, taken it to various repairers without any joy - yet the day his brother found it, it just started working 

There have been other instances of "weird" happenings as well such as the outside water fountain correcting fault



Lovehatetragedy said:


> I would like to think so. Its that thought that got me through losing my mother last year, that shes now happy and safe wherever she is and shes still around me in some form. I believe that the energy a person leaves behind still exists in some form or that there is a chance they come back in another form. Funny enough I recently got an unexpected surprised of getting my new girl Ember, she was specially bred and had a home before she was even born however the person who firstly wanted her could no longer take her, so she came into my vet practice for vaccinations and I ended up taking her at the end of that week. But the funniest thing is she has my mothers eyes, which is a very unusual colour especially for her breed but she also knows exactly what to do to help me during seizures (keeping me warm, licking me etc). She came when I really needed someone. But yes, I would like to believe shes come back as an animal I adore or sent her down but either way, I'd like to believe shes still out there


This really struck a cord with me - I'd been looking for a yellow bitch to show for a couple of years and not really found anything suitable.

I stumbled across a litter in really liked in the spring, but by then, dad was in hospital and we knew in our hearts it was unlikely he would ever come out - so it was totally impractical for me to do anything about it.

About 6 weeks after he passed away - I stumbled across a yellow litter from lines I'd adored since starting showing born just a fortnight after losing my dad - this is how I came to get my Dylan (not the little girl I yearned for).

My dad thought I was certifiable owning all these Labs - but he knew how much they meant to be, and Dylan put a smile back on my face.

He has his "nutty streaks" like most Labs - but he's the sweetest, gentlest most remarkable boy - when I was ill at a show he looked after me - to the extent they had to take him off me for the paramedics to examine me - as he kept getting between me and them !!.

The same day I was ill in the hotel overnight - he just climbed onto the bed, rested into my arm and just gently intermittently licked my hand he was only 14 months old.

I am closer to my mum now than I've ever been = but it was my dad I always talked to - Dylan knows in an instant if I am down - and comes to me as if to say "I've got broad shoulders",


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

swarthy said:


> I'm not really certain what I believe - I know I've had some whacky deja vus on people and places which can only be explained really by having been here before - meaning they must have existed as humans in a previous life - and that I must have been here before to "recognise people and places I don't know / have never been"
> 
> Similarly, there have been "strange occurrences" since my dad died - my sister (who is the most level headed, matter of fact person I've ever met) - said that the night before we scattered my dads ashes - he "grumbled and whinged at her all night" - because the urn was in his brothers diesel car - my dad HATED diesels with a vengeance.
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you mean, we've had stuff like that happen too. She passed away at 6:10am, the week or so after most of the clocks in the house stopped - most of them between 6:00-6:15, her perfume/hand cream scent wafts through our house without us touching any of her stuff, we've had plates break (ones she didn't like ), our TVs turn off and on when they please and then Ember came along.

Its such a comfort, i mean there is a chance it might just be a fluke of course but its these things that're keep me sane at the moment because it complies with my want of her still being around, i'm sure you know the feeling. My mum was my best friend, so having Ember appear was a bright light in the dark for me  I'm sure Dylan is the same for you x


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

ljs85 said:


> I'd like to believe in an afterlife but I have my issues with it, like are the Neanderthals there? Does every living thing get to go, even worms? Or do you have to be self aware (dolphins, apes get to go but not the hedgehogs).
> 
> On a side note I totally believe in the possibility of aliens being out there in space..... So are they in the afterlife to??


I'd like some proof that hedgehogs (and other higher animals) DON'T have self-awareness. The only proof humans have it is through language, which other animals don't have. 
And yes, what about the 'spirits' of neanderthals, other primitive human ancestors and animals? No-one reports seeing their ghosts, nor those of dinosaurs. Why are abbatoirs not haunted by the ghosts of cattle?



Knightofalbion said:


> No proof of life after death? Many of us have had unmistakeable communications and signs from beyond the grave.
> 
> And then there are NDEs (Near-Death Experiences) Through accident or surgery people 'die', go literally to the gates of death but because it is not their 'time', they come back to tell the tale.
> 
> ...


NDE's can be induced.



koekemakranka said:


> No, I do not. In my opinion, "near death experiences" are hallucinations brought on by a failing body. I believe mankind invented the idea of an afterlife due to the (normal) fear of death. Therefore, "carpe diem" is how we should live while alive.


Agree



Knightofalbion said:


> Nobody knew their way around the human mind better than the legendary psychotherapist *Carl Jung*.
> He was a man certainly not prone to fanciful thinking.


No? "He saw visions and heard voices. He worried at times that he was "menaced by a psychosis" or was "doing a schizophrenia"." (wikipedia) 


Knightofalbion said:


> His attitude to near-death experiences changed markedly after he underwent one himself!
> He said:
> "What happens after death is so unspeakably glorious that our imagination and our feelings do not suffice to form even an approximate conception of it..."


NDEs do not equate to what happens (or doesn't) after death. The process and the aftermath are different things.



hutch6 said:


> Oh dear. Can I sit with her whilst she talks to my dead relatives and friends then and ask her to ask them questions only I would know the answer to? I could retire.
> 
> That guy sounds drunk and somehow believes that evidence submitted by a lawyer on a scientific basis holds more value than evidence submitted by one of the greatest physicists the world has ever seen. Has he never had a professional in a scientific field give evidence in one of his cases as a lawyer?
> He also lists Conan Doyle at the top of the list of "great scientist that believe in the afterlife", the guy was fooled by two little girls in the next village to mine that fairies existed in what is probably the very first photoshop Tom Foolery. The guy is a crock of proverbial and full of self importance beyond anything I've ever seen.
> What is the realm of the light? *Do animals not have spirits?* *Why aren't there shed loads of ghosts seen on a daily basis and captured on video? Why have I never seen one*?


Exactly


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Burrowzig said:


> No? "He saw visions and heard voices. He worried at times that he was "menaced by a psychosis" or was "doing a schizophrenia"." * (wikipedia)


Re Carl Jung:

In 1913!!! * He had the NDE in 1944.

He was world famous and a universally recognised expert in his field. 
He was happy to put his reputation on the line. He had no doubts. He gave lectures on NDEs. 
And when asked if he believed in God, for an interview to be broadcast by the BBC, he replied "I don't need to believe...I know."


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## cheesecake (Nov 25, 2012)

There's nothing after death.

You don't exist, like before when you were born. Thats what i believe anyway


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

WHo the heck are "The Paranormal Team"? Are they in the yellow pages? Are their various agencies that run similar services or are they a nationalised organisation that work on behalf of a government?

Please tell me this isn't them:



What qualifications do they have? What training have they had and by what body of accreditation? What do they do to determine you're not making it all up? Where did they carryout their training to ensure their methods were correct and worked? Do they have a unit somewhere in which they have a supply of paranormal stuff so they can practice their methods? What equipment do they use that id different to what has so far in human history failed to record any ghost behaviour or any credible paranormal activity? Isn't that a bit wrong as they are practicing on people's soul which are sacred.

How did your kids say it started? Had there been any previous? Once you had everybody out of the houe why did you not record it on your phone - if I had a chair that weighed over 7stones that was floating around my living room I would be filming it for sure? Did you drive to your mother-in-laws with the horses still tied to the pickup? Do you have any religious symbols in the hosue that have been placed there to protect you and your family against evil? If so why haven't these worked?


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> Re Carl Jung:
> 
> In 1913!!! * He had the NDE in 1944.
> 
> ...


Isn't a near death experience just that, you are not dead, you are still running on basic function the brain hasn't fully shut down and neither have the senses? Close your eyes for about 20seconds and then place your hand over your eyes to block out the hysical light. Did you happen to see fragments fo light floating about? I thought so. Funny that isn't it. You have no sight, no light can get into your eyes and yet your brain is projecting sparks of light that we know aren't there. Doesn't your brain fill in a certain percentage of what is unseesn with things that it draws from memory, hence the phrase "It's you mind playing tricks on you"?
The whole "Life flashing before your eyes" is apparantly your brain rushing through it's back catalogue to try and come up with a survival plan to get you out of there, or, or, or!! It could eb related ot higher concentrations of co2 levels in your bloodstream.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Is there a physical explanation for near death experiences?

Scientific Evidence for the Survival of Consciousness After Death | Near-Death.com


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

"Many of the patients have spoken of the peace they experienced; beautiful, indescribable peace - no pain, no anxiety. *They tell us that all that matters is how much you have loved, how much you have cared* and if you know these things then you cannot possibly be afraid of death
- Dr. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

Service is the coin of the spirit. We are here to help each other along, so show love and kindness wherever and whenever you can.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

cheesecake said:


> There's nothing after death.
> 
> You don't exist, like before when you were born. Thats what i believe anyway


Wow, I need to read this thread from the beginning. Have only glanced at a few posts.

You had to come from somewhere to be 'born'. If this is_ all there is_ I shall be disappointed that there is no meaning in all of this. What would be the point of it all?


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

cheesecake said:


> There's nothing after death.
> 
> You don't exist, like before when you were born. Thats what i believe anyway


I don't know about that because I think we've existed but in some other form and I don't mean any kind of "alien life form" either. I'm thinking we're here on earth for some reason for some kind of journey, before we move on to the next phase of our journey in another form and in another place. Just thinking, nothing definite though. Again, I don't know.

When you think about it, we are a form of some kind of energy. We've got to be, how does one explain how we move, think, and so on? How does one explain an organisim with life? Again, I am thinking of more questions...

By the way, the paranormal investigators are at my house setting up. For a joke, I told them to "ask the boss first." They just laughed it off until one of them came running down to my mother's house, screaming three of the investigators got attacked! :yikes: Apparently, they were knocked on their backsides too, just like my brothers and I were.

Father (I won't mention his name) and his "crew" is here too. I'm hoping we get this "thing" taken care of soon.

Furthermore, I have made appointments for my kids and I with a psychologist/psychiatrist because of the trauma and nightmares they have been having since this whole thing started. My kids are angry at me for doing this because they think other people will think they're crazy. I've had to explain to them this isn't the reason, this is help all of us to cope with our experiences in dealing with the recent paranormal incidents. I'm still on their "S-List" for the time being.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

K9Steve said:


> When you think about it, we are a form of some kind of energy. We've got to be, how does one explain how we move, think, and so on? How does one explain an organisim with life? Again, I am thinking of more questions...


Even when i think about it, we are not a form of energy. To survive, move and think we must extract and convert energy but we are not energy any more than a car is petrol or a kite is wind.



Toby Tyler said:


> You had to come from somewhere to be 'born'.


An hour on wikipedia will teach you all about reproduction.



Toby Tyler said:


> If this is_ all there is_ I shall be disappointed that there is no meaning in all of this. What would be the point of it all?


"Isn't this enough?
Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable, NATURAL world?"
-Tim Minchin

"To gild refined gold, to paint the lily, To throw a perfume on the violet, To smooth the ice, or add another hue Unto the rainbow, or with taper-light To seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish, Is wasteful and ridiculous excess."
-William Shakespeare

Just because you struggle to apprieciate that "all there is" is actually still pretty amazing even without man made myths and monsters it doesnt in any way prove the existence of said myths and monsters.


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## Mark Walden (Mar 31, 2013)

porps said:


> Just because you struggle to apprieciate that "all there is" is actually still pretty amazing even without man made myths and monsters it doesnt in any way prove the existence of said myths and monsters.


Absolutely. There is real beauty in the real world, science is the poetry of reality.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> Is there a physical explanation for near death experiences?
> 
> Scientific Evidence for the Survival of Consciousness After Death | Near-Death.com


having had a brief look through the evidence page, there doesn't appear to be anything but anecdotal evidence and evidence that the brain functions, it doesn't disprove the idea that NDEs are just the body and brain going through certain processes as they prepare to shutdown. Also, nearly all the references go to a parranormal or nde book or site rather than a published scientific paper/journal. I think we may have very different ideas of what peer reviewed scientific evidence is...

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> Wow, I need to read this thread from the beginning. Have only glanced at a few posts.
> 
> You had to come from somewhere to be 'born'. If this is all there is I shall be disappointed that there is no meaning in all of this. What would be the point of it all?


How sad  I suggest you step outside and go for a walk, and open your eyes to the world because it is a beautiful and amazing place. Observe people helping each other out everyday, spend some time at local charities to see the goodness of a human heart and how much we can give of our own life to help out others.

We have, with our amazing minds and hands, sent men into space, creted computers and cars and you can find out pretty much anything you would like to know by a little bit of metal and plastic that also allows you to communicate with your lived ones anywhere anytime..

look at nature, I mean REALLY look at it, the amazing things the world has evolved into without the need of a divine being, we live think and breathe which is amazing in itself. Birds Fly. Flowers grow and look as stunning as they can look in order to attract the insects they need for pollination.

Personally if this is 'all there is' then I will still die a happy woman to have experianced the magnificence that is our world and the beauty of life.

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> Scientific Evidence for the Survival of Consciousness After Death | Near-Death.com


Oh my word. I'd _fail_ my thesis if that was the sort of research I cited: it consists of anecdotes, and an appalling grasp of basic scientific methodology. When we speak of reputable evidence, we mean the sort that appears in peer reviewed scientific journals and is carried out under controlled conditions accounting for different variables. I don't even know what to say about that site - it assumes what it sets out to prove and doesn't include basic things such as error bars to indicate the likelihood of the research being in error. It's really not something that should be cited as evidence as NDE's.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> having had a brief look through the evidence page, there doesn't appear to be anything but anecdotal evidence and evidence that the brain functions, it doesn't disprove the idea that NDEs are just the body and brain going through certain processes as they prepare to shutdown. Also, nearly all the references go to a parranormal or nde book or site rather than a published scientific paper/journal. I think we may have very different ideas of what peer reviewed scientific evidence is...
> 
> _Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


Maybe you should look a little closer.

Doctors, surgeons, cardiologists etc. university educated, allopathic healthcare professionals with years of experience.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Barcode said:


> Oh my word. I'd _fail_ my thesis if that was the sort of research I cited: it consists of anecdotes, and an appalling grasp of basic scientific methodology. When we speak of reputable evidence, we mean the sort that appears in peer reviewed scientific journals and is carried out under controlled conditions accounting for different variables. I don't even know what to say about that site - it assumes what it sets out to prove and doesn't include basic things such as error bars to indicate the likelihood of the research being in error. It's really not something that should be cited as evidence as NDE's.


See the above.

'There's none so blind...'


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> Maybe you should look a little closer.
> 
> Doctors, surgeons, cardiologists etc. university educated, allopathic healthcare professionals with years of experience.


They are still not published in a recognised scientific journal. Being a Dr doesnt automatically make what you say true, accurate or correct. Th envidence is not peer reviewed, in controlled environment etc


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> They are still not published in a recognised scientific journal. Being a Dr doesnt automatically make what you say true, accurate or correct. This is not the definition of scientific evidence.


being honest thats because there aren't any lol!! what alot of time and energy people put into something to convince those who dont/dont want to believe - to believe x

tell you what I will live my life - not get to faffed with things :thumbsup:


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## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> See the above.
> 
> 'There's none so blind...'


Nobody really cares about _who_ is reporting the purported NDE's, only that such studies _are subject to the same tests_ as other scientific research. And so far, it hasn't been.

I just clicked on the 'Quantum physics can explain NDE's' link thinking that sounded scientific, but my goodness, it's full of biblical quotes and a really bad understanding about the properties of light, before equivocating those properties with the existence of god. That's stark raving bonkers. Not credible evidence.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> Is there a physical explanation for near death experiences?
> 
> Scientific Evidence for the Survival of Consciousness After Death | Near-Death.com


Your first link is from a lawyer, they study law last time I checked not science or esle why would they call scientific experts as expert whitnesses in courts of law?

The second article is relating to consciousness after death but consciousness comes from the brain so once the brain is dead (non-functioning) there is no consciousness. This would be along the lines of chopping a finger off and still being able to move the removed appendage for a time after amputation. Sorry but that ain't happening in this world. Loads of people die every single day and yet I am still to be visited by a spirit of one of these people or hear one of their voices speak to me from beyond the grave. I've had two people die in my arms so far in my life and neither of them were at peace until they ceased to be, I never felt anything from them, saw anything around them, saw anything leave their body, felt a presence of any kind or anything like that so I am quite clear in the fact that when you go you go, your body is shutting down and trying to survive all at the same time and when the survival battle is lost that is it, lights out, end of, no feeling of death, no recollection of life and your body then starts to break down as the cells die and are not replaced. Your base elements become part of something else but the chances of them forming an exact replica of the pattern they were in before are so large that is is the nearest to impossible you can get hence why we are all different (except true-identical twins).

http://news.nationalgeographic.co.u...-near-death-experiences-blood-carbon-dioxide/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20377847

For the person who said "I hope there is something else as I don't know what iw ould do if this all meant nothing" unfortuntely there is no point to any of our lioves except to reproduce and survive but all of that is futile as the universe wil one day collapse into nothing yet again (it's happend a few times) and when I say nothing I mean nothing. No time, no space, no light, no force, no electrons, nuetrons, protons, nuclei or protons or quarks - nothing at all. HUman life and indeed all life on this planet will ahev long since been extinct due the more imminent death of our sun which will eventually expand way passed us and therefore engulf our planet and destroy it through the method of fusion. We will all be long gone when this happens though so just enjoy your life and carry on as usual, just don't expect to be in an etheral state once your stop existing though.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

hutch6 said:


> Your first link is from a lawyer, they study law last time I checked not science or esle why would they call scientific experts as expert whitnesses in courts of law?
> 
> The second article is relating to consciousness after death but consciousness comes from the brain so once the brain is dead (non-functioning) there is no consciousness. This would be along the lines of chopping a finger off and still being able to move the removed appendage for a time after amputation. Sorry but that ain't happening in this world. Loads of people die every single day and yet I am still to be visited by a spirit of one of these people or hear one of their voices speak to me from beyond the grave. I've had two people die in my arms so far in my life and neither of them were at peace until they ceased to be, I never felt anything from them, saw anything around them, saw anything leave their body, felt a presence of any kind or anything like that so I am quite clear in the fact that when you go you go, your body is shutting down and trying to survive all at the same time and when the survival battle is lost that is it, lights out, end of, no feeling of death, no recollection of life and your body then starts to break down as the cells die and are not replaced. Your base elements become part of something else but the chances of them forming an exact replica of the pattern they were in before are so large that is is the nearest to impossible you can get hence why we are all different (except true-identical twins).
> 
> ...


Thankyou for demonstrating what a publsihed scientific journal article should look like!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Knightofalbion said:


> Re Carl Jung:
> 
> In 1913!!! * He had the NDE in 1944.
> 
> ...


I can't imagine what difference you think the time lapse between the period during which he sometimes doubted his sanity and his NDE makes.

So he was world famous - so what? Psychology was in it's infancy at the time; anyone in the field was breaking new ground. It doesn't make him right about everything. Universally recognised expert in his field? It was hardly a field then. And recognised experts often prove to be wrong in light of later evidence; an example of that is Sir Cyril Burt who was one of the pioneers in the field of childhood autism, President of the British Psycological Society and knighted for his contributions to psycology. He concluded autism was a form of schizophrenia - we now know this is totally wrong, as well as being 'found out' for having falsified evidence in an attempt to prove the heritability of IQ.

And his belief in god? Faith, believing something - even to the point when it becomes a fact to the believer - proves nothing.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

grumpy goby said:


> look at nature, I mean REALLY look at it, the amazing things the world has evolved into without the need of a divine being, we live think and breathe which is amazing in itself. Birds Fly. Flowers grow and look as stunning as they can look in order to attract the insects they need for pollination.
> 
> _Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


I am most fortunate to be living right amongst nature in one of the most beautiful places imaginable. I sometimes wonder if it's a lucid dream to be so blessed to be surrounded by such magnificence. Every day I count my blessings and REALLY look at the divine that is in everything that surrounds me. Nothing sad about that.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> I am most fortunate to be living right amongst nature in one of the most beautiful places imaginable. I sometimes wonder if it's a lucid dream to be so blessed to be surrounded by such magnificence. Every day I count my blessings and REALLY look at the divine that is in everything that surrounds me. Nothing sad about that.


No. But I do find it sad that you dont consider it enough. What more could you possibly want? Why does there need to be "another life" - is the one we have not enough? With all its Beauty and magnificence, the world has an awful lot to offer; I cant think of anything that an afterlife could offer me that the living world does not.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

hutch6 said:


> For the person who said "I hope there is something else as I don't know what iw ould do if this all meant nothing" unfortuntely there is no point to any of our lioves except to reproduce and survive but all of that is futile as the universe wil one day collapse into nothing yet again (it's happend a few times) and when I say nothing I mean nothing. No time, no space, no light, no force, no electrons, nuetrons, protons, nuclei or protons or quarks - nothing at all.


We dont know that. Currently the most widely accepted theory about the end of the universe is the big freeze. I do like the symmetry of the big bounce theory but the evidence we have (namely that the rate of universal expansion is speeding up rather than slowing down) is contrary to what you would expect from a big bounce universe.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

porps said:


> We dont know that. Currently the most widely accepted theory about the end of the universe is the big freeze. I do like the symmetry of the big bounce theory but the evidence we have (namely that the rate of universal expansion is speeding up rather than slowing down) is contrary to what you would expect from a big bounce universe.


Never heard of "the big freeze". I do like the idea of a complete collpase though as for a human trying to imagine nothing is completely impossible to do "There must be something?"
"No. Nothing"
"Rocks or light or gas or teenie tiny things"
"No. Nothing"
"But surely..."
"No. Nothing"

Either way as to what happens to the universe, our sun will have swallowed us up a fair few million, if not billion, years before it all goes wrong so nobody will live to see the last remaining moments. WOW!! Can you imagine several million people all having "NDEs" all at the same time and nobody there to record it all as evidence or run a half decent scientific experiment to test it. What a bummer.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> I also do teacup reading
> which can be very good and *is extremely accurate* if you have a really good teacup reader


You can't be serious.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

wow - I will pay a fortune to any who can tell me what is on my tea cup and what could it say??!!??


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

grumpy goby said:


> No. But I do find it sad that you dont consider it enough. What more could you possibly want? Why does there need to be "another life" - is the one we have not enough? With all its Beauty and magnificence, the world has an awful lot to offer; I cant think of anything that an afterlife could offer me that the living world does not.


I think a lot of the appeal of an afterlife isn't really anything to do with beauty of magnificence-rather the idea of it quells the pain of loss. In semiology there are some interesting theories of myths - it all boils down to how human beings try to understand the world and how they also as a species struggle with major transitions (life-death) hence all the ceremonies we go through (weddings/christening/funerals/honeymoons) in order to soften the change- and why people who blur the lines between neat and easily understood categories are treated with suspicion (trans-sexuals).

It's also proposed as the reason why there are globally universal fairy stories- they are a consequence of the ways in which human's try and understand, digest and cope with what happens around them. I think a lot of it is in the wiring- we are built to survive, struggle with mortality in our complicated brains and try and find ways to make it less brutal, less final.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> I also read tea leafes, but i think that was more of a "gypsy" style


Right. What do I need to do? If I post a picture of some tea leaves in a cup you can tell me stuff about me and those around me?


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> They are still not published in a recognised scientific journal. Being a Dr doesnt automatically make what you say true, accurate or correct. Th envidence is not peer reviewed, in controlled environment etc


A rather ridiculous statement if you think about it.

Science cannot cure the common cold, never mind prove the existence of God and the Heavenly realms.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

hutch6 said:


> Never heard of "the big freeze". I do like the idea of a complete collpase though as for a human trying to imagine nothing is completely impossible to do "There must be something?"
> "No. Nothing"
> "Rocks or light or gas or teenie tiny things"
> "No. Nothing"
> ...


if not trillions...

the big freeze theory:


> Perhaps the most likely possibility, however, based on current knowledge, is a long, slow decline known as the "Big Freeze" (or the Big Chill or Heat Death). In this scenario, the universe continues expanding and gradually runs down to a state of zero thermodynamic free energy in which it is unable to sustain motion or life. Eventually, over a time scale of 10^14 (a hundred trillion) years or more, it would reach a state of maximum entropy at a temperature of very close to absolute zero, where the universe simply becomes too cold to sustain life, and all that would remain are burned-out stars, cold dead planets and black holes.
> 
> What happens after that is even more speculative but, eventually, even the atoms making up the remaining matter would start to degrade and disintegrate, as protons and neutrons decay into positrons and electrons, which over time would collide and annihilate each other. Depending on the rate of expansion of the universe at that time, it is possible that some electrons and positrons may form bizarre atoms billions of light years in size, known as positronium, with the distant particles orbiting around each other so slowly it would take a million years for them to move a single centimetre. After perhaps 10^116 years, even the positronium will have collapsed and the particles annihilated each other.
> 
> In this way, all matter would slowy evaporate away as a feeble energy, leaving only black holes, ever more widely dispersed as the universe continues to expand. The black holes themselves would break down eventually, slowly leaking away "Hawking radiation", until, after 10^200 years, the universe will exist as just empty space and weak radiation at a temperature infinitesimally above absolute zero. At the end of the universe, time itself will lose all meaning as there will be no events of any kind, and therefore no frame of reference to indicate the passage of time or even its direction.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Barcode said:


> Nobody really cares about _who_ is reporting the purported NDE's, only that such studies _are subject to the same tests_ as other scientific research. And so far, it hasn't been.
> 
> I just clicked on the 'Quantum physics can explain NDE's' link thinking that sounded scientific, but my goodness, it's full of biblical quotes and a really bad understanding about the properties of light, before equivocating those properties with the existence of god. That's stark raving bonkers. Not credible evidence.


In post 188 you said "I'd fail my thesis..." so you haven't even got your degree yet...
Quantum physics is most definitely not my bag so I won't get involved, but there's plenty of people in here* who have got their degree and are somewhat more open-minded 
* Science - near-death experiences


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> I am most fortunate to be living right amongst nature in one of the most beautiful places imaginable. I sometimes wonder if it's a lucid dream to be so blessed to be surrounded by such magnificence. Every day I count my blessings and REALLY look at the divine that is in everything that surrounds me. Nothing sad about that.


Well said, dear Toby! I'm glad someone here has their light on...

'One does not need to be a psychic to see God in the petal of a rose'


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Knightofalbion said:


> In post 188 you said "I'd fail my thesis..." so you haven't even got your degree yet...
> Quantum physics is most definitely not my bag so I won't get involved, but there's plenty of people in here* who have got their degree and are somewhat more open-minded
> * Science - near-death experiences


Coo-ee!
[waves]

I've got my degree.

I agree totally that the "evidence" you provide with your usual collection of anecdotes and evangelism, is, completely and totally stark staring bonkers.
It's too silly to even warrant this level of discussion; it's like trying to convince a 3 year old that Santa isn't real or something.

:laugh:


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

Cookieandme said:


> You can't be serious.


Its just as accurate as astrology, tarot, runes etc. I'd say tea leaves are more open to interpretation, a bit like cloud pictures, I might see a rabbit you could see a horse.

I have said I read tarot and runes for myself and its not about being a good reader etc. You give the information to the person and its how they interpret it that determines accuracy not the reader or the cards but how each individual ties each card meaning to things going on in their lives.

I think GP is confusing personal accuracy with actually making predictions.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> In post 188 you said "I'd fail my thesis..." so you haven't even got your degree yet...
> Quantum physics is most definitely not my bag so I won't get involved, but there's plenty of people in here* who have got their degree and are somewhat more open-minded
> * Science - near-death experiences


could you not find a more biased site? No probably not.

section 17 (Scientific Theories Explaining NDES) is absolutely laughable. 20 pros for "Consciousness Survives Bodily Death Theory" whereas every alternative theory got just 1 pro and a quick rebuttal. It either shows extreme bias or a lack of thought, that he can only come up with one pro for alternative theories while he is quite happy to list things such as "_People are absolutely convinced they were out of their body during a NDE:_" as a pro in favour of "ghost" theory". Does this pass for science where you come from?

and who is this guy anyway? the only thing i can find out about him is that he runs a site or 2 about NDEs...


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> Well said, dear Toby! I'm glad someone here has their light on...
> 
> 'One does not need to be a psychic to see God in the petal of a rose'


But that is not life after death or anything after death, that was said to convey the current moment and the moment leading up until a change in circumstances. What the heck to does that have to do with Life After Death?


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## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

Why on earth would it be an insult to point out that I do not have my PhD yet? I have two other very good degrees involving a substantive amount of logic, physics, and scientific methodology.

In motivating your arguments, you do seem overly concerned with the supposed authority of figures and not with _how_ they arrived at their position. You seem unable to grasp basic inferential reasoning on this topic, or regarding scientific methodology in general. I mean, that page cites Deepak Chopra's research as scientific evidence :laugh:


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Barcode said:


> Why on earth would it be an insult to point out that I do not have my PhD yet? I have two other very good degrees involving a substantive amount of logic, physics, and scientific methodology.
> 
> In motivating your arguments, you do seem overly concerned with the supposed authority of figures and not with _how_ they arrived at their position. You seem unable to grasp basic inferential reasoning on this topic, or regarding scientific methodology in general. I mean, that page cites Deepak Chopra's research as scientific evidence :laugh:


You mean THE Deepak Chopra? WOW!!! Is this the same guy that can provide an enlightening response to counter any argument that science may throw in the way of his self-improvement books or snake oil products?

That


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

hutch6 said:


> But that is not life after death or anything after death, that was said to convey the current moment and the moment leading up until a change in circumstances. What the heck to does that have to do with Life After Death?


If one can see the divine in a rock or the glint of sun on the snow, they are capable of realizing there is more than just our existence here on earth that unites us and there is more than this.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Barcode said:


> Why on earth would it be an insult to point out that I do not have my PhD yet? I have two other very good degrees involving a substantive amount of logic, physics, and scientific methodology.
> 
> In motivating your arguments, you do seem overly concerned with the supposed authority of figures and not with _how_ they arrived at their position. You seem unable to grasp basic inferential reasoning on this topic, or regarding scientific methodology in general. I mean, that page cites Deepak Chopra's research as scientific evidence :laugh:


It wasn't an insult. You mentioned the fact. Maybe you are a scientific genius in the making? Either way, there are other people - and yes much more experienced and better qualified than you, who think otherwise and are more open-minded. 
And isn't that what science is all about, being open-minded? Sounds to me like no matter who said it you've got them hung, drawn and quartered from the outset.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> If one can see the divine in a rock or the glint of sun on the snow, they are capable of realizing there is more than just our existence here on earth that unites us and there is more than this.


Exactly, the beauty of Creation...


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Barcode said:


> In motivating your arguments, you do seem overly concerned with the supposed authority of figures and not with _how_ they arrived at their position. You seem unable to grasp basic inferential reasoning on this topic, or regarding scientific methodology in general. I mean, that page cites Deepak Chopra's research as scientific evidence :laugh:


I'd say that depends how you read it. They're just using a quote of his to link in with the theory.

Anyway, that is a little derogatory isn't it? He qualified as a doctor and taught at the medical schools of Tufts and Harvard - amongst many other things. 
So he certainly has a brain.


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## Barcode (Mar 7, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> It wasn't an insult. You mentioned the fact. Maybe you are a scientific genius in the making? Either way, there are other people - and yes much more experienced and better qualified than you, who think otherwise and are more open-minded.
> And isn't that what science is all about, being open-minded? Sounds to me like no matter who said it you've got them hung, drawn and quartered from the outset.


Do you seriously not understand how to reason from premises to a conclusion? It is not about being "experienced" or "better qualified", but about _being able to support your arguments_ which you have thus far failed to do. I don't care about your conclusion - I care about _how_ you got there, and at the moment, you seem to have gotten there by unsupported means.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Barcode said:


> *Do you seriously not understand how to reason from premises to a conclusion?* It is not about being "experienced" or "better qualified", but about _being able to support your arguments_ which you have thus far failed to do. I don't care about your conclusion - I care about _how_ you got there, and at the moment, you seem to have gotten there by unsupported means.


No. He really, really, doesn't. And you will be bashing your head against the keyboard by the time you've finished trying to explain it. Good attempt, though.
:laugh:


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Uh oh, I was offered an invite to join the science social group and accepted. Do my spiritual views invalidate the invite? I do have the utmost respect for Dr. Chopra.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

1: Qualifications =/= Evidence or Proof. Proper scientific testing and qualifying under controlled conditions against a hypothesis does. If this had been done, it would surely have been properly documented in a scientific journal - not an obscure website that is heavily biased.

2: Just because people dont believe the supernatural, things we have no proof or evidence for does not make us closed minded.

3: Where you see the magnificence of Creation, I see the Wonder of physics and Biology. You see god in a leaf? Jolly good, I see millions of years of evolution, biology at work and the physics of our environment which allows it to be. 

Science does not claim to know everything, it accepts it and strives to fill the gaps, rather than filling those gaps with unfounded, unproved concepts.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

grumpy goby said:


> You see god in a leaf?


Personally I don't see "God" in a leaf, but I do see evidence of the divine in the uniqueness and beauty of each leaf.

There are far too many coincidences I have experienced in my own life to doubt the presence of a higher power. And I am not religious, nor do I believe in God in the same context most folks do.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

No, I don't believe, in a God or life after death. You are born, you live, hopefully a long & happy life, then, when it's your time, you die. End of.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> Personally I don't see "God" in a leaf, but I do see evidence of the divine in the uniqueness and beauty of each leaf.
> 
> There are far too many coincidences I have experienced in my own life to doubt the presence of a higher power. And I am not religious, nor do I believe in God in the same context most folks do.


Thats fine, I have absolutly no issue with peoples personal beliefs, and the post wasnt really directed at you  
I object to those who accuse people follow science of not being "open minded" because we dont believe in things which cannot be demonstrated to us.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> It wasn't an insult. You mentioned the fact. Maybe you are a scientific genius in the making? Either way, there are other people - and yes much more experienced and better qualified than you, who think otherwise and are more open-minded.
> And isn't that what science is all about, being open-minded? Sounds to me like no matter who said it you've got them hung, drawn and quartered from the outset.


So as you are more experienced and qualified than say myself in all of this, why aren't there billions of animal ghosts wandering about the place? Some die at the cruel hand of nature and some at the hand of man and some just get old and decay, so where are all their souls that should be wandering about the place?


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

hutch6 said:


> why aren't there billions of animal ghosts wandering about the place? Some die at the cruel hand of nature and some at the hand of man and some just get old and decay, so where are all their souls that should be wandering about the place?


Still haven't read all but the last few pages and not the posts apparently in question. But may I comment on the animal ghosts?

Realizing this is likely 'coincidence' and I can take it both ways. Every time one of my animals have died I have had 'visits'. Especially in the first difficult days. When I was younger I doubted these visits. It would take a separate thread to explain what these entail. But there are glimpses of an animal's spirit after death, I've experienced it.

A joyful coincidence happened just hours after my beloved Toby Tyler passed. A rainy day mixed with snow cleared just enough to reveal a double rainbow. Now I do realize it sounds far fetched, but I chose to believe it was a sign that he was alright. And it did give me further reason to believe there is more to this universe than what we experience in this life.

And again, this is my own personal belief, but the fact that there is such suffering here on earth at the hand of man tells me this is by no means the utopia everyone seems to believe.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Quick question and it's just out of curiosity. If life here on this earth is it, are you afraid of dying?


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> Quick question and it's just out of curiosity. If life here on this earth is it, are you afraid of dying?


No. I have no fear of death, I just dont want it to come too soon so I can make the most of what we have here.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> Quick question and it's just out of curiosity. If life here on this earth is it, are you afraid of dying?


No no fear of death, infact am not afraid of anything x


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

No fear of death as once I'm dead I'm dead. No recollection of anything and no idea I was dead so as I don't exist I have nothing to fear.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Barcode said:


> Do you seriously not understand how to reason from premises to a conclusion? It is not about being "experienced" or "better qualified", but about _being able to support your arguments_ which you have thus far failed to do. I don't care about your conclusion - I care about _how_ you got there, and at the moment, you seem to have gotten there by unsupported means.


A mere 36 minutes after I posted that VERY long link with many additional links, you're on here rubbishing it. You can read, absorb and make a sound, open-minded and scientific analysis of all that information in 36 minutes?

Like I said, it sounds to me like you've already made up your mind on the issue. May I ask how many NDE research studies you have been personally involved in? Wouldn't happen to none none would it? If it is none, then you aren't really in a position to make a judgement either way are you.

Nothing in that link is 'my' conclusion, it is the conclusion of the medical professionals and scientists whose work it is. Correct me if I'm wrong ALL the said doctors and scientists mentioned in that link are still alive, traceable and contactable, so if you have any questions or if you think you know better, you can contact them direct and ask them.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

There is no death. Life is a continuum.

When you 'die' and pass over to the world of spirit, all the people and animals you have loved and who have loved you (who have passed over) will be there to greet you.

Into the Light ............


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> There is no death. Life is a continuum.
> 
> When you 'die' and pass over to the world of spirit, all the people and animals you have loved and who have loved you (who have passed over) will be there to greet you.
> 
> Into the Light ............


.........In your opinion

I will carry on believing there is nothing until there is some solid unbiased verifiable scientific evidence to prove otherwise. What you have presented does not fit this bill. Being authored by Dr does not automatically make something an example of sound evidence.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Never quite understood the issues with this subject, we're all going to find out soon enough. If there is something after I breathe my last then great, so be it. If not it doesn't matter one iota what I believe.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

springerpete said:


> Never quite understood the issues with this subject, we're all going to find out soon enough. If there is something after I breathe my last then great, so be it. If not it doesn't matter one iota what I believe.


At least for me I would hope this life on earth had some meaning beyond what we live on a daily basis.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Toby Tyler said:


> Quick question and it's just out of curiosity. If life here on this earth is it, are you afraid of dying?


I am sad that I have to die, but die I will & there's not a thing I can do about that.


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## Antony80 (Jan 24, 2013)

So I've spent the last few hours reading various websites that either try and prove NDE's are proof of an afterlife and others that attempt to prove the opposite. Here's my interpretation and take on the 'evidence' that I've read....

Pro-afterlife evidence:  Well, there isn't any. Not any that is substantiated by scientific fact or study which has been published for peer critique. All there seems to be is a list of people saying it happened to them and as such it must be true. The fact some of these people are Doctors seems to convince others that there must be an afterlife seemingly because a Doctor says so. 
A Dr Alexander (think that was his name) claims he has proven there is an afterlife as whilst he was in a coma he experienced an NDE, supposedly whilst his neocortex had completely shutdown. What he doesn't explain is how he knows this part of his brain had shut down. It seems far more plausible that his neocortex was not fully shut down at the point when he thinks he had the NDE. Perhaps the experience occurred in the moments before his neocortex shut down or as he was coming to? If he was unconscious, quasi-conscious, or in a state of altered-consciousness, he would either have no sense of time or a distorted sense of time. How would he know exactly when the NDE occurred in relation to when his neocortex shut down? This would lead any proper scientific study to believe that there are gaps, misconceptions, or faulty assumptions and as such this is not reliable, irrefutable evidence.

Non-believers evidence:
There doesn't seem to be as many websites promoting the bunking of the afterlife, bet then I suppose most scientists and Doctors worth there salt would have more important things to research (and they won't be trying to flog you a book either).
However, from the evidence available I am convinced that there is no such thing as the after life. Why, mainly because there is evidence that the experiences that 'believer's' have been through can be explained by simple brain chemistry, namely extreme lack of oxygen in the brain. The fact that these NDE's can be recreated in laboratory conditions by stimulating certain areas of the brain with chemicals that mimic low oxygen levels is pretty compelling. Similarly, the fact fighter pilots have also experienced these 'hallucinations' under extreme acceleration (when the blood is unable to reach the brain due to G Forces) backs this theory up.
It appears from the evidence I've read that NDE's are nothing more than a neurological bi-product of the brain shutting down.

Verdict: 
I believe so called NDE's do happen but there's nothing supernatural or spiritual about it whatsoever. Scientific and medical evidence can prove this.

If that makes me close minded then so be it. Show me some real evidence (not stories with no proof) and I'll gladly reconsider. Until then my minds made up.

PS, sorry for the insanely long post and any typo's that may be in there


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Toby Tyler said:


> Quick question and it's just out of curiosity. If life here on this earth is it, are you afraid of dying?


I am! Terrified! All the deaths I have bore witness to from old age and terminal illness have been ghastly- both the protracted nature of it and the actual final part. In fact it only serves to make me believe less in anything afterwards- the body so desperately tries to cling on to the last vestige of life- there is such a strong biological imperative to live even when you are all but sunk.

I did see an elderly lady die when she was hit by a motorbike and call me crazy but that was one the least traumatic out of all of them. It was fast if nothing else. Being in the acute/hyper acute stroke unit for the last six months I have been around death a lot, I think in the time that I have been there which is only in either the afternoon or the evenings, I have been there with maybe 10-15 deaths? Some have been quiet and peaceful (so I do know that it is possible not to have a horrific end) but others have been unpleasant. Anyway the upshot is- yes, I am afraid! And I guess not so much for what there is after but just to have to go through the whole ghastly process in the first instance.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Toby Tyler said:


> Quick question and it's just out of curiosity. If life here on this earth is it, are you afraid of dying?


I'm not worried about being dead. The process of dying might be unpleasant and frightening, depending on what I die of.


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

Well, lets say the investigation and the events that happened last night is something that would shake anyone's beliefs about whether or not there is life after death. 

Just before the investigation began, literally all Hell broke lose. I had to get it to show itself and that it did, along with all the house-shaking, earth-shattering events that surrounded it, but we couldn't show fear. The usual stuff flying off the walls occurred, but fortunately this time, no one got hurt. However, the cameras and other equipment the investigators brought with them didn't fair well, because they were smashed against the walls and the rest of their equipment malfunctioned and wouldn't record. The first voice caught on the hand-held recorder one of the investigators was holding and the only piece of equipment that was working and not destroyed got the first words we all heard from the entity and it wasn't good at all. 

Thankfully, the priest stopped them from provoking it and told them he is taking over because when the entity said its name was "Legion", the priest knew these were multiple demons that were here, then started to exorcise the house, the other outbuildings, all the vehicles, the whole property, and everything else including me, and later, my kids. 

Needless to say, while the priest was exorcising the house and everything else -wherever else we were at during the time- everything shook as though we were in a very big earthquake. While we were saying "The Lord's Prayer", the shaking calmed, the throwing of objects stopped, and the "screams" of a thousand strong winds were quieting down, then suddenly as these events that were happening, they were stopping and we could feel the air lighting up, and smell the fragrance of flowers, especially roses and lilacs. What else happened is that we saw this very bright light surround us and everything around us that I don't think any of us can really describe the beauty, the power, the calmness, and I can't even think of the other words for it, except that it was as though we had many suns arounds us. 

The psychic has been a great help too. She told us where they were entering from and it turns out I had an open well on the piece of property I bought four or five months ago, so we (the investigators, priest, the psychic, and myself) went to find that well to seal it. She also verified nothing was still attached to any of us, however, the priest made sure by exorcising and blessing all of us too. 

Interestingly, when one thinks about a priest exorcising and blessing a house, you would think it was just salt and holy water, but this priest also used Black Tar water and Black salt as well, but he had all of us burn incense as we went from room to room, building to building, vehicle to vehicle. He, the priest, also placed St. Benedict medallions pretty much everywhere on the property. 

Well, I better get off of here and finish cleaning up the house before the kids come.


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

I hope there's life after death. Previously I would have said hope to God, but not any more.

My brother sadly passed away after a motorcycle accident last night. My grandparents, mum and her partner came back to my grandparents' house while Chris and I went to Asda for supplies we'd forgotten in the rush out of the house for the drive down (too late).

When they got back, they were all sitting around the table. One of the bayonet fitment bulbs in the light above the table suddenly fell out and was caught by the shade that hangs underneath. The bulb had been in there for years, and worked perfectly when refitted.

In the same house, when my Gran's sister died, an unwound music box started playing just as they got home.

I'm sure there are logical rather than supernatural explanations for these - but I think it was quick knock from Jake, before he passed on, telling my mum and family that he was still around.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

K9Steve said:


> Well, lets say the investigation and the events that happened last night is something that would shake anyone's beliefs about whether or not there is life after death.
> 
> Just before the investigation began, literally all Hell broke lose. I had to get it to show itself and that it did, along with all the house-shaking, earth-shattering events that surrounded it, but we couldn't show fear. The usual stuff flying off the walls occurred, but fortunately this time, no one got hurt. However, the cameras and other equipment the investigators brought with them didn't fair well, because they were smashed against the walls and the rest of their equipment malfunctioned and wouldn't record. The first voice caught on the hand-held recorder one of the investigators was holding and the only piece of equipment that was working and not destroyed got the first words we all heard from the entity and it wasn't good at all.
> 
> ...


I'm just going to say what I think in the most tactful way I can: if you believe that is true, you are in need of psychiatric help, quite urgently. Please seek it, hallucinations are a very worrying symptom.


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

myshkin said:


> I'm just going to say what I think in the most tactful way I can: if you believe that is true, you are in need of psychiatric help, quite urgently. Please seek it, hallucinations are a very worrying symptom.


In all due respect myshkin, if this was just something that happened to me, maybe I would have to have see a psychologist/psychiatrist for some help, but how do you explain what happened when there are so many witnesses?


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

K9Steve said:


> In all due respect myshkin, if this was just something that happened to me, maybe I would have to have see a psychologist/psychiatrist for some help, but how do you explain what happened when there are so many witnesses?


group hysteria x

will not go into finding the links, scientific data, evidence as if you dont want to look/understand then there is no point.

However it is a well known fact that people will see what they want to see, and can come to conclusions to try to understand what they see, in my house the doors open - why because of a ghost, no because they are not fitted properly!! but some might see that as spooky doings, if you have a group of like minded people then they feed of each other anxiety/reactions x I can remember scaring the poop out of a group of said types on a school trip to Pembroke castle, they fell for it hook line and sinker - got all jumpy said they saw the said ghost - but I made it up!! how could they see something that did not exist x

I will say I am not narrow minded because I dont believe, so that kind of comment can stop, I just dont believe it, as I said previously what dont scare you cant harm you x

NB: my old house was reported to be haunted, and the owner before the owner before me left because of it, guess what I saw nowt in the 10 years I lived there lol!!!


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

If there's life after death we shall know it.......If there isn't.....................


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Megan345 said:


> I hope there's life after death. Previously I would have said hope to God, but not any more.
> 
> My brother sadly passed away after a motorcycle accident last night. My grandparents, mum and her partner came back to my grandparents' house while Chris and I went to Asda for supplies we'd forgotten in the rush out of the house for the drive down (too late).
> 
> ...


So sorry to hear about your brother. Don't you worry, he is still alive in spirit and you'll see him again.

Signs. It's a common occurrence. So yes, it could well be.

(On the subject of signs, I was just thinking last night of the time in the Vatican square, packed with thousands of people, when a butterfly landed on Kate McCann. What more symbolic gesture could there be?)


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Knightofalbion said:


> So sorry to hear about your brother. Don't you worry, he is still alive in spirit and you'll see him again.
> 
> Signs. It's a common occurrence. So yes, it could well be.
> 
> (On the subject of signs, I was just thinking last night of the time in the Vatican square, packed with thousands of people, when a butterfly landed on Kate McCann. What more symbolic gesture could there be?)


There could be an entire thread on signs. And I know of _more than one_ non believer who had such profound signs that at least they accept the_ possibility_ of life after death. One is an MD who attended his mother's death that I am personal friends with. In my younger days I dismissed signs as eerie coincidences.

Pay attention to these signs - they come to you for a reason. Some may be more subtle than others but they are definitely there after the loss of a loved one.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Interesting thread. Many years ago, I liked to imagine one of relatives was reincarnated as an animal (such as a squirrel) in the forest I hiked through when she passed away.  At no point, did I actually think that was true. Personally I think it is mostly just human psychology at work and I'm doubtful any type of god or afterlife exists.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Knightofalbion said:


> when a butterfly landed on Kate McCann. What more symbolic gesture could there be?)


Really, what could have been any more symbolic than a _double_ rainbow hours after my beloved Toby died in my arms at home?


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

the natural world is truely a beautiful place and if we are open and look hard enough there will always be someone or something to comfort us, i love signs


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

it's nice that you can find comfort in perfectly natural events but fortunate timing isnt proof of supernatural cause.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

see I should have known that subway bag hanging from the tree last Monday was a portent of doooooooom - pony spooked at said bag and I fell off and cracked my [email protected] 

blurry signs!! they are helpful when you need to know if its a one way street I suppose or how to get to the M3 etc :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

porps said:


> it's nice that you can find comfort in perfectly natural events but fortunate timing isnt proof of supernatural cause.


Nor is there proof that it doesn't have to do with much more than coincidence.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> Nor is there proof that it doesn't have to do with much more than coincidence.


The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.... 

For example:


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

In my example of the double rainbow, it was a profoundly meaningful symbol regardless of coincidence. The only truth who it matters to is me.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> In my example of the double rainbow, it was a profoundly meaningful symbol regardless of coincidence. The only truth who it matters to is me.


This, I agree with.

If people find comfort in what they find signs, then all the best to them.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I suppose for me the problem with signs and believing in them is the sheer vagueness of it all. What don't the deceased souls on another plane grab a pen and write a note or something specific like -"I'm dead but it's awesome, see you when you die, lots of love"? If they can manipulate the weather or invertebrates (the butterfly thing) into doing their earthly will a notepad and pen should be no bother? It's all so vague and interpretive. 

I did have a really weird day of coincidences once- 11am, I was talking about a dog I hadn't seen in months and then he shows up. 1pm- talking about a car accident I had earlier in the year, the woman I crashed into walked into the restaurant. 3pm- OH talking about a girl he met on the plane, we went to the zoo and she was there with her boyfriend. We spent the next week talking about the lottery to no avail......


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

every action has a reaction, signs come in all shapes and sizes,i probably shoulnt even bee on this thread as i still havent made my minds up yet,not bi polar just still open and experiencing everything the universe throws/floats my way.actually what im i talkin about the answer is yes, definately, at the minute. x


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## K9Steve (Oct 5, 2012)

Signs, strange dreams, and what else? It sounds like someone or something is trying to tell you something, if you believe. 

One of the strangest "signs" I've heard growing up is that when someone is about to die, a dog will let out a death growl at the person's window, signaling it will be that person who will die. However, supposing there are more than one person in that room? Hmm...


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

To slightly revive a "dead" thread - excuse the pun....

Sylvia Browne (Famous Psychic, appears on the Maurie show) has taken down her social network accounts following the discovery that Amanda Berry is alive and well, after telling her mother that she had definately passed over....

Sylvia Browne is why people dislike claims of psychic ability. She prays on the heartbroken and desperate, for her own selfish gains with no respect for their pain and suffering...

She has incorrectly told people their children were dead, buried under rocks, (incorrectly, the kids were alive and well also) and in one case a 6yo girl sold to slavery in Japan, she was in fact murdered within hours of her abduction! Another told parents their daughter was working as a stripper, the girl had been murdered 3 years earlier.

I very much hope Sylvia Browne's "career" is in tatters after this final lie.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

So awful that that poor woman went to her grave believing her child was dead when there was still hope.


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## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

grumpy goby said:


> To slightly revive a "dead" thread - excuse the pun....
> 
> Sylvia Browne (Famous Psychic, appears on the Maurie show) has taken down her social network accounts following the discovery that Amanda Berry is alive and well, after telling her mother that she had definately passed over....
> 
> ...


Psychics are dangerous and manipulative...

My best friend went to two "psychic healers" they told her there was nothing wrong with her, they used dowsing pendulums to diagnose her condition, the pendulum told them that my friend was fine, she believed them, and didn't go to see her doctor, rush forward a few weeks, my friend had an appointment with one of these "healers" however she was so poorly that her husband called an ambulance, he also called "the healer" and left a message cancelling the appointment saying that he was taking my friend to the hospital, the ambulance arrived and as my friend was being helped inside her husband rushed back into the house to get something, the phone was ringing, he let it go to answer machine, the "psychic healer" was heard leaving this message..

I am so happy that you are finally going to the hospital, they can tell you that there is nothing wrong with you...

My friend died, the cancer had spread to her brain


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Changes said:


> Psychics are dangerous and manipulative...
> 
> My best friend went to two "psychic healers" they told her there was nothing wrong with her, they used dowsing pendulums to diagnose her condition, the pendulum told them that my friend was fine, she believed them, and didn't go to see her doctor, rush forward a few weeks, my friend had an appointment with one of these "healers" however she was so poorly that her husband called an ambulance, he also called "the healer" and left a message cancelling the appointment saying that he was taking my friend to the hospital, the ambulance arrived and as my friend was being helped inside her husband rushed back into the house to get something, the phone was ringing, he let it go to answer machine, the "psychic healer" was heard leaving this message..
> 
> ...


How tragic!!!


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## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

grumpy goby said:


> How tragic!!!


I know  x x x


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

grumpy goby said:


> To slightly revive a "dead" thread - excuse the pun....
> 
> Sylvia Browne (Famous Psychic, appears on the Maurie show) has taken down her social network accounts following the discovery that Amanda Berry is alive and well, after telling her mother that she had definately passed over....
> 
> ...


Now this I couldn't agree with any more. To me Sylvia Browne always seemed to be an insincere charlatan. could never figure out the appeal. Or that people fell for it.  Not that I ever followed her or Maury. Which is all about sensationalism and ratings anyway. It's not a credible source for anything but absent minded entertainment.

This is not the kind of stuff I was referring to in my posts for the record.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

sadly its not all sensationalism as people who's kids are abducted or have just vanished (in the US certainly) are inundated with offers from so called psychics who say they can tell them where their child is.

I will try and find the Jon Ronson interview with a few parents. I honestly ding the whole thing explotative and distasteful.

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_

Edited to add: From Jon Ronsons "Lost at sea", his article was published in the Guardian Oct 2007



> Thanks to Montel, Sylvia Browne's books - such as Adventures Of A Psychic - are forever on the bestseller lists. She is the queen of psychics, but there are scores of pretenders out there.
> 
> "It happens every time a child goes missing," Marc Klaas told me in a telephone conversation shortly before the cruise began. "I call them the second wave of predators. First you lose your child and then these people descend. Every time." It happened to Marc. In October 1993 his 12-year-old daughter Polly had two friends round for a sleepover at their California home. At 10.30pm she opened her bedroom door to find a man standing there with a knife. He tied up the girls, told them to count to a thousand, and took Polly away. For the next two months, before Polly's body was eventually found (she'd been raped and strangled), Marc was inundated with offers from psychics. "I was insulated from most of them by family and police," he said, "but there had to be at least a dozen I personally dealt with. They hope you'll pay them and they hope they'll get really, really lucky and make a guess so close to the truth, they can say they solved it."
> 
> ...


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

it's just sick.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

late to this thread and as Porps used all my favourite quotes I found this. Basically I don't believe in life after death. FOr those that do that's fine. However, this guys writing explains my view very eloquently, almost romantically.

"You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.

And at one point you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.

And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue the heat of our own lives.

And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy's still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you're just less orderly. Amen.

-Aaron Freeman."


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