# low price dog foods are they really that bad?



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Just been thinking about it..you know, how things pop into your head on the umteinth night of no sleep. I was walking with woman at the local park and she had a bag of cheap dog food with her from our local shop, I kind of winced and thought..ooh bad dog food, but after thinking bout it I feel pretty bad for that. This woman has rescue and fosters dogs all varying in age from very old to about 5, all are very healthy and very happy and energetic. Then I got to thinking that the rescues we have round here feed their dogs on anything they can get, I remember when Fizz was young and someone let her out the garden, when I finally tracked her down at the kennel there was a store and it was full of every different meat and dry food you can think of and the man who I was speaking to said they get donations from everywhere and it's how they managed to stay open. That said I got to thinking, they're being fed, they're all happy and healthy so why is it such a bad thing to feed a dog cheap food? I use Naturo and Harringtons, occasionally James well beloved because this is what my dogs like, I know Harringtons isn't a high end food but it's all one of them will eat. 
Just wondering what everyone elses thoughts are really...I ended up thinking...you know what, you rescued these dogs and good on you, so you can't afford to feed the best but they're getting fed, they're happy and healthy so who am I to judge...and again, the dogs in rescues have been rescued, they're not all living on borrowed time and they all eat whatever gets donated from wag to superdog, to Tesco's own......no one donates high priced stuff cos they can't afford it.
Anyway...there goes another night of no kip...


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

There is no bad food, only bad diet. So a rescue in a kennel fed on anything and everything for a few months is probably not going to hurt it.

My first dog was fed on Bakers for the first 12 years of his life (then I became informed and changed it) and lived to nearly 14.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

The rescue I foster for buys very cheap food, ie Wagg etc because as yoy say they canmt afford the expensive foods. All fosters that come to me have the same food as my dogs which is Burns, some people regard that as crap but its the only food ive food to suit my dogs.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

obv 12 years of Bakers didn't do any harm though,,,that's what I mean, I have to say thinking on it does make me feel less crappy because mine don't have the best food out there...certainly not the worst but they're happy  Suppose it's the same as us humans not getting our five a day


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Well I'm convinced that Muddy would be dead if it wasn't for supposed crap food.
Someone came on here once and tried to tell me how awful we were for feeding it. Pfft 

He's now a lively 10 year old. Not 100% healthy but far better than he would have been at 3 if we hadn't changed to a crap food.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

rona said:


> Well I'm convinced that Muddy would be dead if it wasn't for supposed crap food.
> Someone came on here once and tried to tell me how awful we were for feeding it. Pfft
> 
> He's now a lively 10 year old. Not 100% healthy but far better than he would have been at 3 if we hadn't changed to a crap food.


I've had the same in the past for feeding mine harringtons...it's cheaper than Tesco's but without it I'd be screwed because it's all Fizz can manage these days with it being small pieces...so called crap food is better than starvation Molly came to me on Wagg and webox which she loved and I'll be honest, if it wasn't for the fact it makes Fizz spew I would have left her on it a while because she was so skinny and changing her over was a bitch to do...I remember when I was growing up we had a dog who lived on leftovers and she was with us until she was 19


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

When my parents had dogs they were fed on pedigree chum and mixer ,,pedigree was considered a good food then and both dogs lived to 17 years old healthy until their last year when they started showing their ages more. 

I have a 14 yr old who has been fed on James Wellbeloved for most of her life (the regular one with rice) adult and then senior food. She now tends to get the the JWB grain free for her main meal but only cos my puppy had food intolerances and it took a while to find him a kibble that didn't give him the squits or make him hyper and I tried several of the so called 'better' ones with higher and multiple meats/fish content. 

I wouldn't call JWB cheap its £35 for 10kg for the grain free one, think you can get 12kg for cheaper with the regular adult food with rice, barley in. 

I'd like to find one nearer to £20 thats grain free. I looked up Vitalin chicken and potato remembering it was originally around £23 for a 15kg bag thats now gone up to around £32 a bag. 

The cheaper ones even if wheat free and 'hypoallergenic' tend to have rice or other grains in. Dog biscuits and treats are even harder to find grain free so are mixers. JJ is happy with JWB cereal free crackerjacks and mini jacks though to fit in different treat toys, I haven't found many others that aren't ridiculously expensive..though zooplus are good for grain free treats!

I usually have a tin of Chappie in the cupboard for Inca as she likes it and sometimes will eat that when she wouldn't eat anything else, it does seem to be good for upset tummies.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> When my parents had dogs they were fed on pedigree chum and mixer ,,pedigree was considered a good food then and both dogs lived to 17 years old healthy until their last year when they started showing their ages more.
> 
> I have a 14 yr old who has been fed on James Wellbeloved for most of her life (the regular one with rice) adult and then senior food. She now tends to get the the JWB grain free for her main meal but only cos my puppy had food intolerances and it took a while to find him a kibble that didn't give him the squits or make him hyper and I tried several of the so called 'better' ones with higher and multiple meats/fish content.
> 
> ...


JWB is now 40 quid a sack round here ...deff not cheap, mine get it occasionally if it's on offer and it works out at the same price as our usual but that's not often...I was shredded on a forum for feeding mine that but at the time it was all I could feed because of allergies....peoples opinions change all the time and over the years I've just stopped giving aa crap what other people think...I'll feed what I want now what's good for me pooches is good for me ...My sister has a 13 yr old toy yorkie and all she eats is pedigree now because she has about 2 teeth...if she fed her dry food she'd starve to death trying to suck it lol


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Personally I think there should be a sticky listing cheaper dog foods as well as the 'good quality' ones...loads of people probably want to ask about them but daren't in case they get judged and it's a shame...not everyone has the rhino skin I have...I don't care what others think but I know a lot of people worry their selves senseless...if you're skint you're skint, nothing to be ashamed about...


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I was feeding Millies - but its very expensive and I found my dog was loosing weight on it.

So for the past 4 months or so she has been on Lukullus - she has put on weight and looks in great condition. Its sort of middle of the line food but she does well on it so for now she will be staying on it. Don't see the point in changing if shes doing well.

She does also get raw bones as replacement meals about 2 - 3 times a week as well to make it more interesting / good for teeth.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Clare7435 said:


> Personally I think there should be a sticky listing cheaper dog foods as well as the 'good quality' ones...loads of people probably want to ask about them but daren't in case they get judged and it's a shame...not everyone has the rhino skin I have...I don't care what others think but I know a lot of people worry their selves senseless...if you're skint you're skint, nothing to be ashamed about...


The food indexes list prices and ingredients 
You can just ignore the colour coding and choose whichever ingredients you are comfortable with and suits your budget.

Maybe it's snobby, but I personally couldn't bring myself to feed the unspecified cereal, meat and animal derivatives, generic list type foods.
Probably save me a bomb but it just makes me uncomfortable not knowing what I'm putting into my wooflers on a daily basis.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Just goes to show that expensive doesn't always mean best for the individual pooch doesn't it...I give mine raw bones too..even the old girl likes giving the a go bless er  I think it's down to what your dog likes and dislikes and if it's good for their needs it's got to be a good thing


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Dogs are scavengers. As a result they can survive on various diets. Some dogs do better than others on different things. All dogs are individuals.

Dogs however are also carnivores/hypercarnivores not herbivores. Look at the ingredients of "cheap" food and it's more suitable for a rabbit than a dog. Doesn't mean a dog cannot survive on it though and live a long life. Chemically it may be suitable but I believe a dog does best on something other than the equivalent of a artificial chemical diet. I also don't believe that pet food companies have magically solved and know everything about diet. Why is it that humans can't have a "complete and balanced diet" in a single package considering even more research has been placed in human diets?

Check the ingredient lists. Notice how cheap food often don't list meat type or "cereal" type? One of the reasons for this is it's not consistent. They will use whatever is cheap at the time which makes sense economically. However it makes things like allergies and checking for them a major pain. Each pack of food may be a case of setting off allergies or not. Used to have a friend who was allergic to nuts. He always called eating Revels a game of russian roulette. Same principle here.

We don't know. We are bombarded by marketing (= mostly lies) but little in the way of studies are available to show the benefits of types of food. Some dogs do better on cheap food no doubt. Some people can only feed cheap food. However for me, personally, if I can raise the chance of a longer, healthier life by paying a bit extra I will try to do so even if it may not make any difference in the end.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> Personally I think there should be a sticky listing cheaper dog foods as well as the 'good quality' ones...loads of people probably want to ask about them but daren't in case they get judged and it's a shame...not everyone has the rhino skin I have...I don't care what others think but I know a lot of people worry their selves senseless...if you're skint you're skint, nothing to be ashamed about...


The current food sticky lists all foods (within reason) - not just ''good quality'' ones. The colour coding is merely my opinion, which, of course, can be totally disregarded.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Hanwombat said:


> I was feeding Millies - but its very expensive and I found my dog was loosing weight on it.
> 
> So for the past 4 months or so she has been on Lukullus - she has put on weight and looks in great condition. Its sort of middle of the line food but she does well on it so for now she will be staying on it. Don't see the point in changing if shes doing well.
> *
> She does also get raw bones as replacement meals about 2 - 3 times a week as well to make it more interesting / good for teeth*.


where do you get your raw bones from? mine like a good gnaw on a bone but I tend to get them the giant roast knuckles and just watch them the bone is so thick they can't break off chunks of it anyway, they just like to gnaw on the bits on the outside and empty the marrowbone inside, sometimes I use it again and refill with wet food.

Neither of mine will eat raw meat so there's no point going fully raw and there's no small butchers I can get into to just ask them for a couple of cheap or free bones for the dogs so would have to be online.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

the list on the back of half the food in Tesco is the same lol...


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## WhippetyAmey (Mar 4, 2012)

I don't think it's the price you pay for the food but what's in it. 

There will always be the 1 or 2 that do better on Bakers than anything else but for those 1 or 2 there will be 10 that don't.

My family used to feed Bakers until I got Merlin and started researching food and they now feed barking heads/lily's kitchen.. but our family dog Bella is 11 and has had to have the majority of her teeth removed due to the state of them mostly due to the food she had. 

I fostered a dog who was fed on Bakers and she was a mess, a combination of the atmosphere she had probably been in and her food - two weeks with us and a change of diet and her whole temperament was a little less erratic and her thin coat was gathering thickness - after a month or so she looked a lot better. 

I don't have a problem with cheap food, I have a problem with Bakers and food that is low QUALITY because it is FULL of colourings and additives and all sorts of things that are bad for dogs, not including the lack of anything which is good for dogs. The additives which it has in it also have been researched and can increase the risk of cancer.

I just think if you know this then why would you feed it? If you don't know that is something completely different. 

We may drink, smoke, eat McDonalds but that is OUR choice and we make our OWN decisions but when it comes to our dogs, they rely on us to make the decisions. I may smoke but I would never give my child a cigarette or want them to smoke, it's the same with the dogs, I may eat crap but the dogs I am responsible for rely on me to keep them as healthy as possible, so I do.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Clare7435 said:


> Personally I think there should be a sticky listing cheaper dog foods as well as the 'good quality' ones...loads of people probably want to ask about them but daren't in case they get judged and it's a shame...not everyone has the rhino skin I have...I don't care what others think but I know a lot of people worry their selves senseless...if you're skint you're skint, nothing to be ashamed about...


The list of foods has them all (done by Sixstar)..... not just the "good" ones- with prices too.

I asked the kennels what Dexter was fed on when I got him, so i did not upset his tum, the rescue lady was very honest and said the cheapest there is, so start him on whatever you want to feed him - add some tripe to get his weight up.

I do think it is our responsibility to think about out dogs nutrition, as we would kids, but there is defo not a one size fits all strategy.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

we're lucky enough to have some good butchers round here...the market puts bags of bones out in a basket so dog owners can just take them


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Forgive me I haven't looked at all the posts in the dog food sticky...I thought it was a list of the high quality ones only


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

If Bakers is all my dog would eat and she was healthy on it then yes I would feed it...it's all my friends dog will eat and he's in fine shape...but then again, as someone said...there are some dogs who will only eat certain foods


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I'd just like to know if there is a cheaper grain free one than £35 for 10kg that also only has a single ingredient and the gravy is the same as the main meat/fish. 

I looked at F4D cos I liked the bag with the collie on the front but that works out more expensive than his current one. The CSJ no grainer has too many different meats in and tripe was the main ingredient (gives him squits tried him on a tripe filled bone before). 

Lily's Kitchen is a good one but again works out more expensive for a smaller amount though I do get them the wet cans as treats now and again (birthday hamper and xmas) they love the xmas dinner flavour one. I sometimes get a smaller bag of her kibble and use it was treats to mix in with their regular kibble. 

Zooplus has several wet foods with foreign names that are cheaper and they have a decent selection of grain free too, but I'd prefer to find a supplier than did similar in the UK as now have to wait for it food to come from germany or something. I prefer to support British or local business where possible.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> I'd just like to know if there is a cheaper grain free one than £35 for 10kg that also only has a single ingredient and the gravy is the same as the main meat/fish.


Grain free, single protein protein (turkey). 12kg - £29.99

Country Kibble Natural Grain-Free Dog Food Turkey, Sweet Potato & Cranberry VAT FREE


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Clare7435 said:


> Personally I think there should be a sticky listing cheaper dog foods as well as the 'good quality' ones...loads of people probably want to ask about them but daren't in case they get judged and it's a shame...*not everyone has the rhino skin I have*...I don't care what others think but I know a lot of people worry their selves senseless...if you're skint you're skint, nothing to be ashamed about...


:lol: 
Well I feed Muttly on Winalot for dinner, and Hi-Life kibble for lunch.
Winalot is the first food that he always eats all of every time and licks the bowl clean. 
He gets proper meat and bones when available and I put in veggies and rice/pasta a couple of times a week too.

I make my own treats for him and he does also get a bit of 'junk food' as we all do. (he really loves the Mottly Mixes treats).

He is happy and healthy and it is affordable. We are not skint, but are not rich either. Obviously if he ever needed a particular food e.g if he developed allergies, then I would pay the premium for it. But he is fine and he likes his food.
But I do feel on this forum that I have to explain myself and my reason for feeding cheaper foods. It's purely because that is what I picked up for him to try and it worked!


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> I'd just like to know if there is a cheaper grain free one than £35 for 10kg that also only has a single ingredient and the gravy is the same as the main meat/fish.
> 
> I looked at F4D cos I liked the bag with the collie on the front but that works out more expensive than his current one. The CSJ no grainer has too many different meats in and tripe was the main ingredient (gives him squits tried him on a tripe filled bone before).
> 
> ...


Could it not have been the other ingredients in the bone filling that upset his tum? Most filled bones tend not be just one ingredient. Might be worth not ruling out tripe altogether if that's the only tripey thing he's tried.

Millies Wolfheart Utility Mix is a touch cheaper at £36.99 for 12kg. Grain free and 50% white fish.
No collie on the packaging though, I'm afraid.....


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I see where you're coming from, OP, but I don't see the point of listing cheap dog food. All anyone has to do is go to any supermarket and pick what suits their budget. So many of the cheaper foods contain questionable ingredients, too, that I doubt anyone would want to 'recommend' them by listing them on here. The trouble with people saying their dog is healthy on a certain food is that they have no idea what's going on inside. 

Anyone wanting to budget carefully due to lack of funds might want to consider raw, which can be sourced-with persistence-very cheaply. The less expensive supermarket foods can actually work out more expensive as you have to feed more due to the low protein etc.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

cinnamontoast said:


> I see where you're coming from, OP, but I don't see the point of listing cheap dog food. All anyone has to do is go to any supermarket and pick what suits their budget. So many of the cheaper foods contain questionable ingredients, too, that I doubt anyone would want to 'recommend' them by listing them on here. *The trouble with people saying their dog is healthy on a certain food is that they have no idea what's going on inside. *
> 
> Anyone wanting to budget carefully due to lack of funds might want to consider raw, which can be sourced-with persistence-very cheaply. The less expensive supermarket foods can actually work out more expensive as you have to feed more due to the low protein etc.


Could that not be said for us humans too? We don't know until we develop a problem. But I don't buy premium brands for myself either.

That's a good comment on raw though!


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> where do you get your raw bones from? mine like a good gnaw on a bone but I tend to get them the giant roast knuckles and just watch them the bone is so thick they can't break off chunks of it anyway, they just like to gnaw on the bits on the outside and empty the marrowbone inside, sometimes I use it again and refill with wet food.
> 
> Neither of mine will eat raw meat so there's no point going fully raw and there's no small butchers I can get into to just ask them for a couple of cheap or free bones for the dogs so would have to be online.


I get mine from Nurturing by nature  Great service and fast delivery! I recently bought 12kg of various lamb bone cut offs - they've lasted ages! I also tend to buy their chicken carcasses, wings and necks


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Muttly said:


> Could that not be said for us humans too? We don't know until we develop a problem. But I don't buy premium brands for myself either.!


Of course it could, but we choose what we stuff ourselves with - dogs don't have that luxury. They rely on us to make good choices for them. There are also additives in some dog foods that are prohibited in human foods, which says it all really.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Could that not be said for us humans too? We don't know until we develop a problem. But I don't buy premium brands for myself either.
> 
> That's a good comment on raw though!


We can make the choice though. We KNOW things are bad for us and still eat them lol.
Dogs get what they are given with no say in the matter. Having the same thing day in, day out it makes sense to me to provide the best you can


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I like to think I do well with my dog. She has issues with her anal glands, so too high a meat content makes it really bad. Since being on Lukullus, which is about 30% meat and 25% rice, she hardly ever gets a fishy smelly bottom :lol:

Plus because she still gets raw bones several times a week - I feel happy with her diet 

I'd love to feed her on Fish4Dogs really but I can't really afford £52.00 for a 12kg bag when Lukullus is £35.00 for 15kg. Plus its cold pressed so holds all the natural nutrients.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

cinnamontoast said:


> I see where you're coming from, OP, but I don't see the point of listing cheap dog food. All anyone has to do is go to any supermarket and pick what suits their budget. So many of the cheaper foods contain questionable ingredients, too, that I doubt anyone would want to 'recommend' them by listing them on here. *The trouble with people saying their dog is healthy on a certain food is that they have no idea what's going on inside. *
> 
> Anyone wanting to budget carefully due to lack of funds might want to consider raw, which can be sourced-with persistence-very cheaply. The less expensive supermarket foods can actually work out more expensive as you have to feed more due to the low protein etc.


We know what's going on inside Muddy, and his cheap food saved his life and keeps him stable


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Cheap dog food feeder and proud here :thumbup1:

I personally think some of the dog foods that are over £50+ a sack are extortionate. I also think you are paying a premium for our own personal perception - does my dog really need wild caught pacific salmon? or free range buffalo meat? well, given that they seem to eat poo and dead things, probably not.

Dogs have evolved as scavengers so I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist over the specifics in diet or being grain free. My dogs eat grain every day - in fact bread (or specifically, toast!) is their favourite! 

I know dogs that are fed on all sorts of crap and haven't seen a vet for most of their lives. So yeah, not something I lose sleep over or give much thought to


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2015)

I feel if you know better, and can do better, then you should do better.

Obviously if you can't afford to spend more than the absolute minimum then there's not much you can do about that (but I believe the likes of Bakers and Pedigree are actually very expensive for what's in them, so I feel people should at least do research and find the best they can for their money). Likewise, if there's a specific medical reason why someone has to feed a certain food, then there's not much you can do about that either.

I do have a bit of a problem with 'it's all they'll eat' or 'it really suits them' when someone is feeding a very low quality food without a specific reason. Although of course people are free to feed their pets how they wish, and it's nothing to do with me.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

McKenzie said:


> I feel if you know better, and can do better, then you should do better.
> 
> Obviously if you can't afford to spend more than the absolute minimum then there's not much you can do about that (but I believe the likes of Bakers and Pedigree are actually very expensive for what's in them, so I feel people should at least do research and find the best they can for their money). Likewise, if there's a specific medical reason why someone has to feed a certain food, then there's not much you can do about that either.
> 
> *I do have a bit of a problem with 'it's all they'll eat' or 'it really suits them' when someone is feeding a very low quality food without a specific reason.* Although of course people are free to feed their pets how they wish, and it's nothing to do with me.


Yeah see Io has grains because too high a meat content makes her anal glands play up, since switching from Millies Wolfheart to Lukullus, she only gets anal gland issues every now and again ( compared to every week! ) and she also has put on weight :thumbup1:


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

*I think sometimes people get to worried about it - I just think people should feed the best they can for their budget and within that what suits their dogs.*
Missy really suited Harringtons and Skinners - not the worst food not the best food, but reasonable foods and affordable.
Lilly can eat anything - Trying the new pup Ludo on Nutrivet which is the cheapest grain free I have found (looking at the feeding guidelines), but I think it's a little rich for him so may switch back to Skinners for them both.

Must say though when we were really struggling financially I bought Wag for a while and it wasn't great - loose, smelly stools and hyper dogs - but then others appear to do really well on it.

Also like in humans if you have digestive issues eating processed food can help, foods like Chappie can be life savers


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2015)

Hanwombat said:


> Yeah see Io has grains because too high a meat content makes her anal glands play up, since switching from Millies Wolfheart to Lukullus, she only gets anal gland issues every now and again ( compared to every week! ) and she also has put on weight :thumbup1:


Yes, but that's a specific reason, and I'd hardly call Lukullus very low quality


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

McKenzie said:


> Yes, but that's a specific reason, and I'd hardly call Lukullus very low quality


Well its not really low quality, but I was so for not feeding any grains. I never used to think about it, but then I joined this forum and got the impression with some people ( not naming names, just general ) that if you fed grains or something then you were a terrible dog owner


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2015)

Hanwombat said:


> Well its not really low quality, but I was so for not feeding any grains. I never used to think about it, but then I joined this forum and got the impression with some people ( not naming names, just general ) that if you fed grains or something then you were a terrible dog owner


But at least you put thought and effort into it, and weighed up the options.

Personally I think people SHOULD get 'hung up' over what they feed their dog. We control what goes into our dog's body every single day of their life. It's a major responsibility.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Fleur said:


> Also like in humans if you have digestive issues eating processed food can help, foods like Chappie can be life savers


Reckon there's quite a few who feed high end food that still have a can or two of Chappie incase of upset tums


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

I feed Apollo what I consider a middle of the road food, Wainwrights salmon and potato and he also sometimes gets switched to CSJ fit'n'fast they are two of the few dry foods that agree with him. 

I've now had to specify to my friend that when I look after their dog for them they need to either give me the money for food or buy her the food Apollo eats because they will only eat together when they're both here and since Bella moved to my friends sisters they have put her on rubbish food that I can't risk Apollo eating because it will make him sick plus I don't want to pick up what comes out the other end from the Aldis own brand food she's been eating.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

One thing I am convinced about. Whatever you feed, dental health is vitally important. It doesn't affect simply the mouth but also other internal organs. As well as diet you should also consider how to improve dental health.


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

Hanwombat said:


> I like to think I do well with my dog. She has issues with her anal glands, so too high a meat content makes it really bad. Since being on Lukullus, which is about 30% meat and 25% rice, she hardly ever gets a fishy smelly bottom :lol:
> 
> Plus because she still gets raw bones several times a week - I feel happy with her diet
> 
> I'd love to feed her on Fish4Dogs really but I can't really afford £52.00 for a 12kg bag when Lukullus is £35.00 for 15kg. Plus its cold pressed so holds all the natural nutrients.


Have you tried pets at home fishmongers dry? I used to feed F4D when cali was a puppy then wanted to go back to it when i wanted to get some weight off her (her old food was too high in fat) then seen they changed the recipe for the worse, but still was the same price. So found fishmongers dry it's a great dry food and I think quite reasonable around £33 for a huge sack


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

CaliDog said:


> Have you tried pets at home fishmongers dry? I used to feed F4D when cali was a puppy then wanted to go back to it when i wanted to get some weight off her (her old food was too high in fat) then seen they changed the recipe for the worse, but still was the same price. So found fishmongers dry it's a great dry food and I think quite reasonable around £33 for a huge sack


I did try her on it when she was a puppy - I can't for the life of me remember why I changed, I don't think I changed because she didn't do well on it, can't remember :lol:

I'll have a nosy at it though


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

rona said:


> We know what's going on inside Muddy, and his cheap food saved his life and keeps him stable


Is he transparent?


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## patsymatsy (Apr 13, 2015)

I wouldn't want to live off supermarket "savers" food, why should I expect my dog to.

People who live off a diet of mainly McDonalds can "appear" healthy, but their insides/arteries (which you can't see) will tell a different story.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

What is "cheap" though? Foods like Bakers and Pedigree are crap but not what I'd consider cheap foods, you can get foods like Lukullus and Markus Muhle for around the same price. Which may not be considered top quality foods but they're a far cry from Bakers imo.

I feed the best I can afford. Up to now it's been Taste of the Wild. Very shortly that may have to change to something cheaper until hubby gets work. For a hell of a lot of people the food does have to fit into their budget and so far I've yet to have a dog need less on a high quality food than they have on lower quality. Spen actually eats more on TotW than he did on Wagg or Markus Muhle!


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

JWB is a decent food... when I first got Inca I didn't have a clue she had cheap food from Wilko's..the giant webbox sausage ones you cut some off and mixed with a cheap dry. I tried Bakers which looks lovely with colourful vegetables on the front but made her really hyper. 

I went in the Pets At Home and they pointed me to JWB as a good one, the vet had also mentioned it. They had a deal on the 2kg bags so got one of each flavour regular adult and took them home to try and she did better on them.

If JJ hadn't had all his tummy troubles at such a young age he would have gone on the same I did get in a bag of JWB Puppy for him but it contains grain. He didn't do better on Wafcol surprisingly cos it was also a grain free one, tried the expensive ones. We were trying Green dog Salmon, trout and veg when I saw a competition to win a years supply of JWB food and noticed they had a grain free version now so entered him in competition and he won (NEVER won a competition in my life!!) so asked for the fish one, as fish seems to be the ingredient in all the foods for sensitive tummies and he did much better on that one. 

For some reason the Fish one is couple of quid more expensive than the Turkey and Lamb grain free versions of same food? 

I saw a cheap one advertised at a local farm store something like £9.50 for 15kg.. Masters Choice or something but the first ingredients is cereals and derivatives of dodgy origin...shame cos its got a lovely Border Collie on the front! 

I'd like to find a grain free for under £30 and if bag was 12 or 15kg that be good. There has to be only one protein source in it (fish or white meat) and as few ingredients as possible, preferably one with a fixed formula but it seems a big ask to get food like this for under £30 a bag?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> I'd like to find a grain free for under £30 and if bag was 12 or 15kg that be good. There has to be only one protein source in it (fish or white meat) and as few ingredients as possible, preferably one with a fixed formula but it seems a big ask to get food like this for under £30 a bag?


I linked you to one earlier in the thread.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

SixStar said:


> Grain free, single protein protein (turkey). 12kg - £29.99
> 
> Country Kibble Natural Grain-Free Dog Food Turkey, Sweet Potato & Cranberry VAT FREE


Oooh, I think we may have to try this one. Been searching for a cheaper alternative and this looks pretty good.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

patsymatsy said:


> I wouldn't want to live off supermarket "savers" food, why should I expect my dog to.
> 
> People who live off a diet of mainly McDonalds can "appear" healthy, but their insides/arteries (which you can't see) will tell a different story.


What is a supermarket saver food? I get my dogs tinned food from the supermarket....supermarkets also sell the likes of Lily's Kitchen etc which last time I checked was considered pretty good.

The McDonalds analogy doesn't really work. Yeah, if someone eats crap for their entire life, they may well suffer for it later. Or they may not - genetics is a wonderful and rather baffling thing. But a dog ain't a person. Dogs have been as successful as they are because they are scavengers, many of whom have been living to long age long before the likes of premium dog foods were invented.


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

patsymatsy said:


> I wouldn't want to live off supermarket "savers" food, why should I expect my dog to.
> 
> People who live off a diet of mainly McDonalds can "appear" healthy, but their insides/arteries (which you can't see) will tell a different story.


Heads up, some people do have to survive on supermarket savers brand food - I would have been for at least two years if I didn't know the right markets to visit for the fresh but reduced at the end of the day stuff  and if my parents hadn't known about those markets I would have been raised on it. There is nothing wrong with only being able to afford "generic" food items, lets get that straight now.

Back on topic 

I think it is better for people to feed what they can afford than not feed a dog at all. If that means that the dog gets a diet of asdas own brand topped up with whatever meat can be found that day, then at least the owner is trying their best.

Personally I find it cheap to feed a mix of raw, CSJ dry, and whatever wet I can get on offer as a treat / kong filler. The wets and dry food may not be considered superior quality but it is only part of his diet. He does well on it, other dogs might not. If your dog can only eat a cheap food without throwing it up, chances are you need to feed that cheap food.

in an ideal world the dog would be able to cope with something considered higher quality, but not all dogs are the same.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I prefer to buy grain free because my dog seems to do far better on it. I've noticed that on things like Wainwrights or Markus Muhle he has a lot of eye gunk whereas on Taste of the Wild he doesn't. His coat is better on TotW too. 

Spen will cope on low quality food for a time if it comes to it, just as I would myself. But if I can avoid it for either of us I will do.

Just ordered a bag of that Country Kibble, I don't think £35 when delivery is factored in is extortionate


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Dogs used to live long and healthy lives on the traditional meal of winalot and chum or pal. 

I was one of the first to feed complete dry food and in fact became an agent for it. According to this forum it would have been rubbish but there were not many more about.
I then used to feed the local ag stores own sheepdog mix. It cost me £5 for a bag that lasted 3 dogs well over a month. I could not have afforded anything else. My dogs were very fit and in lovely condition.
Then I started feeding a slightly more expensive food because one dog was not doing so well and then the store closed down so could not get it any more so they all changed over.

My current dogs are on Wainwrights trays for 2 reasons. They are both a bit fussy both in taste and their tummies and I am more well off so can afford to feed it to such small dogs.

They do not seem in any better condition than any other dogs I have fed on the cheapest possible and I would still do that if I had bigger dogs.

I eat junk too quite happily and fed my daughter on junk as she was very fussy. She was one of the only children who never caught bugs and usually had a 100 percent attendance record. She has grown up to be very healthy - 
and not fussy any more. She ate rat in Cambodia last week


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

catpud said:


> Heads up, some people do have to survive on supermarket savers brand food - I would have been for at least two years if I didn't know the right markets to visit for the fresh but reduced at the end of the day stuff  and if my parents hadn't known about those markets I would have been raised on it. There is nothing wrong with only being able to afford "generic" food items, lets get that straight now.


I actually prefer some of those generic value brands to the big name brands to be honest. But then our cupboards growing up were stocked with white tins of generic brand baked beans, spaghetti etc. Sometimes there's a choice between buying good quality and filling bellies unfortunately and the same applies to feeding pets as well as yourself and any other family members.

And before anyone says it, sometimes people fall on hard times AFTER getting pets.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

SixStar said:


> I linked you to one earlier in the thread.


 oh missed that sorry.. is it the Country Kibble one shown in link below? (your original comment I mean)

I just looked at that on Netpet I might try a small bag and see if he likes it. Thanks :thumbup1:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I used to feed a selection of wets. Zooplus brands and some UK ones. Good old Butchers Tripe cans were as good as any that I used in all respects.
Yes, the labelling is a bit vague but once they answered my questions I was happy to use it. 

My OAP cats used to have Zooplus brands but a change in circumstances meant I couldn't afford it. They've been on Butchers Classic for nearly a year - no difference in them


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Rosie has IBD and it's been a nightmare trying to find a food she can tolerate.

I've tried every kibble and wet food and, at best, they give her terrible wind or, at worst, cause a flare up of her IBD.

She can't tolerate anything with venison, duck, lamb, liver or heart and she can't tolerate food with a high meat content.

Several times, my vet advised me to buy Asda Hero wet food in foil trays, saying he had a number of dogs on his books with the same condition as Rosie and they were doing well on it.

I bought it in the end and she eats it, seems to enjoy it and it doesn't cause her any problems at all.

Our family dog when we were growing up was a large crossbreed and she was fed Pal and Winalot. She lived to eighteen and my Parents had her put to sleep because she had gone blind. Other than that, she was in excellent health.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Haven't got a lot of time, so I've so far, only got to page 4 in reading the replies (and skim-read pages 3 and 4 ).

OP; Thank you for posting this. Where possible, I've tried to feed "decent", or at least, middle-range foods for my dogs, and I do look at the ingredients, but having only recently gone back to work (and then - only PT) I've not really been able to afford Skinners or Applaws etc like I would prefer, so I'm currently feeding Wagg, although I will get Butchers or Winalot tins at times too.

Someone suggested raw. I tried it. Didn't find it all that much cheaper than dry/wet commercially available foods but maybe I wasn't looking in the right places, Max refuses to eat it and it was taking up valuable space in my freezer that I really need for my own food. Ideally, I'd have a freezer just for the dogs, but I've neither the space nor the money to keep it running.

I've kept all that quiet from this forum because I know how I'm likely to be judged, but the way I see it (now) is, if it's the difference between being safe in the knowledge that the dogs will be fed all week - even having a little left over, compared to knowing for a _fact _that I'll run out by Tuesday and have to borrow £2 or so for more dog food after having spent £9 on Skinners or £12 on Applaws (can't afford the bigger bags, being on a zero hour, weekly paid contract) - or worse - ask family if they can spare some Wagg anyway - then I'll take that option and sleep more soundly knowing that the dogs have enough to eat.

If/when funds allow, I'll start with the mid-range foods again.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> oh missed that sorry.. is it the Country Kibble one shown in link below? (your original comment I mean)
> 
> I just looked at that on Netpet I might try a small bag and see if he likes it. Thanks :thumbup1:


That's the one


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## WhippetyAmey (Mar 4, 2012)

I think I'd also like to point out that people are like 'Oh I feed Bakers because it is all I can afford' - Bakers/Pedigree etc etc isn't cheap and there are a lot better quality foods out there for cheaper.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

WhippetyAmey said:


> I think I'd also like to point out that people are like 'Oh I feed Bakers because it is all I can afford' - Bakers/Pedigree etc etc isn't cheap and there are a lot better quality foods out there for cheaper.


I know someone who fed Bakers all their dogs life, she had a beautiful shiny coated fit and slim Labrador who lived into her late teens 
She fed it because she believed it to be a very good food, never thought it cheap at all.
She has a new dog now - 10 years on there is a lot more information about dog nutrition, she was horrified when she read how bad Bakers is thought to be I reassured her that her dog had a long and healthy life full of love and companionship, I thought it was so sad that she was left with such guilty feeling for a beloved pet.
Her new dog is fed a 'good' food I can't remember which brand off the top of my head but it was bought from the local natural pet shop and costs her not much more than Bakers does these days.


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## WhippetyAmey (Mar 4, 2012)

Fleur said:


> I know someone who fed Bakers all their dogs life, she had a beautiful shiny coated fit and slim Labrador who lived into her late teens
> She fed it because she believed it to be a very good food, never thought it cheap at all.
> She has a new dog now - 10 years on there is a lot more information about dog nutrition, she was horrified when she read how bad Bakers is thought to be I reassured her that her dog had a long and healthy life full of love and companionship, I thought it was so sad that she was left with such guilty feeling for a beloved pet.
> Her new dog is fed a 'good' food I can't remember which brand off the top of my head but it was bought from the local natural pet shop and costs her not much more than Bakers does these days.


Like I said earlier my family always fed Bakers/Pedigree and knew no better until I got Merlin and started researching food - our previous dog lived until he was 19 but the last year or so he didn't really have a quality of life and he also had no teeth at the end.

Same as Bella my mums dog now who had to have her teeth removed due to her diet.

My mum feels bad now for what she has fed but only because of the effects it has had on the dogs but if the dogs have not suffered then no point feeling guilty, just to change it going forward.


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

I'm not particularly evangelical about it. I feed my two on good quality food, mix of raw and wet mainly, but Belle came to us at 14 and still going strong after a life on Bakers. Her teeth were bad, but I think after 14 years of never being brushed and nothing like carrots, bones to clean them, losing four teeth wasn't too bad!

My friend feeds her three labs on Wagg (she has three labs, three cats and five kids so keeping costs down is paramount!) and those dogs are healthy and very much loved and cared for, so who am I to judge? If asked directly for advice or an opinion I would give mine, but I won't press it on anyone without being asked.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

When these threads come round, as they do quite often, you'll always get the same stories of ''such and such dog ate Wagg/Bakers/Pedigree/whatever'' all their life and they were fit and healthy. It's just like how ''such and such smoked/drank/was obese'' all their life and they were fit and healthy too. Doesn't make either of them a good lifestyle choice... some people and dogs are just luckier than others. 

One of my dogs wasn't one of the lucky ones though - dying of stomach cancer - which is thought to be directly linked to poor nutrition and the carcinogenic additives contained in some foods - and those aren't my words, they were from a very highly regarded canine oncologist. I know someone else on this forum has also sadly lost a dog in this way and told much the same thing - I believe their dog was fed the same food as Dylan ate too.

Sure - I have, and have had, dogs with medical conditions whilst I'm feeding a good quality diet - but I would rather know I am taking every possible step to protect their health by feeding a good diet. Thankfully for me, the diet I feel is the best for my dogs, also happens to be the cheapest one available to me. 

Pedigree and Bakers are certainly not cheap - and even Wagg isn't the cheapest - a lot of the CSJ and Skinners ranges are on par with Wagg in terms of price. No the ingredients may not be fantastic, but they do not contain the carcinogenic additives, which Wagg does. Sod the grains - it's not the end of the world if a dog eats those - but I do find it very hard to stomach someone feeding their dog a food with BHT/BHA when there are same price alternatives without.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

SixStar said:


> When these threads come round, as they do quite often, you'll always get the same stories of ''such and such dog ate Wagg/Bakers/Pedigree/whatever'' all their life and they were fit and healthy. It's just like how ''such and such smoked/drank/was obese'' all their life and they were fit and healthy too. Doesn't make either of them a good lifestyle choice... some people and dogs are just luckier than others.
> 
> One of my dogs wasn't one of the lucky ones though - dying of stomach cancer - which is thought to be directly linked to poor nutrition and the carcinogenic additives contained in some foods - and those aren't my words, they were from a very highly regarded canine oncologist. I know someone else on this forum has also sadly lost a dog in this way and told much the same thing - I believe their dog was fed the same food as Dylan ate too.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I am not a believer in food causing cancer. I will feed what I like and I will eat what I like as most people do. There are faddy eaters and faddy feeders but I am not one of them.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Blitz said:


> Sorry but I am not a believer in food causing cancer. I will feed what I like and I will eat what I like as most people do. There are faddy eaters and faddy feeders but I am not one of them.


No need to be sorry - it's your choice to make and totally irrelevant to me - I am only saying what an oncologist told me, and I do happen to believe the word of someone very high up in their profession.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

SixStar said:


> No need to be sorry - it's your choice to make and totally irrelevant to me - I am only saying what an oncologist told me, and I do happen to believe the word of someone very high up in their profession.


Then again, you can read studies on almost any sort of food totally contradicting each other. The scientists that carry them out are probably equally high up in their profession.
Every food scare is proved to be wrong by another scientist.

Up to you to feed what you are happy with as will everyone else but not right to guilt others into breaking the bank feeding something they cannot afford because someone else thinks it better.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Sorry but I am not a believer in food causing cancer.


Thousands of peer reviewed papers will tell you, you are wrong....... and not all science is proven "wrong"......


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Blitz said:


> Up to you to feed what you are happy with as will everyone else but not right to guilt others into breaking the bank feeding something they cannot afford because someone else thinks it better.


Oh dear...

I was actually suggesting CHEAPER alternatives to those foods people commonly feed ''because they can't afford anything else''. 

Most bizarre how this is guilt tripping people into feeding foods that will break the bank :skep:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> Thousands of peer reviewed papers will tell you, you are wrong....... and not all science is proven "wrong"......


I really really doubt if dog food manufacturers, who spend a great deal on research and mostly employ nutritionists, are going to add something to their food to kill the dogs that eat it.


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Interesting  

I don't look at the £ as a whole but work out how much its costs to feed per dog per day (using the guidelines on the back) MWH - 75p per day, per dog (well, £1.50 total, kyzer costs more to feed than willow as he's bigger  ). To me, that's cheap.. We discussed our limit being £1 a day per dog. 

Tbh if my dogs 'did well' on the cheaper bag stuff or even bags readily available in stores, i'd probably get it.
We ended up with a bag of Wagg at some point as we'd run out & had to wait for delivery & wait for payday... The ammount of food fed & the ammount that fell out their rear  it knocked me sick! They itched like mad & acted like lunatics (hyper!) 
Same with the dry chappie food - itch like mad. 

Now MWH is fine & affordable for us . They get 'extras' anyway & raw bones for their teeth. Both dogs fur has been the best its been in a while and i'm happy with their weights. We did the whole raw thing but it just wasn't working as well as i'd hoped until i'm 'unhappy' with mwh i probably won't change again.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> I actually prefer some of those generic value brands to the big name brands to be honest. But then our cupboards growing up were stocked with white tins of generic brand baked beans, spaghetti etc. Sometimes there's a choice between buying good quality and filling bellies unfortunately and the same applies to feeding pets as well as yourself and any other family members.
> 
> And before anyone says it, sometimes people fall on hard times AFTER getting pets.


Good point. 
I grew up on Asda Farm stores food pretty much.
I buy Tesco Value Bran Flakes for myself and Tesco's own Baked Beans. Why? Because *to me* they taste much better than Heinz/Kellogs whatever. Premium brands sometimes have much more sugar too.

Muttly loves his Winalot and mixer, as I said he gets fresh meat when available. In fact I have some fresh fish coming for him this week to try.
I did try Tescos meat tins for him, and he liked them, but then they changed something in the recipe and he wouldn't eat it, which is when I went onto Winalot. If the same happens with this I will look again.
Also Muttly has to have wet food for dinner, he will not eat dry.

I keep my eye on his poo, teeth, ears, eyes, coat etc and if he had anything wrong I would act on it.

I tried my Cat on Whiskas back in the day and it gave her awful diarrhea. It wasn't cheap either! But I have heard this a lot.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Currently mine costs about £6 a month to feed. He currently has his grain free dry for free, mixed with some home cooked food (veg and boneless mince cooked) and some butchers wet in his Kong at lunch.
His first food was bakers and he did 'ok' but he was 9 weeks old when he switched so I can't really judge it, but I wouldn't feed it out of choice mainly as its so expensive for what it is.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Let's flip it.. High price <> great food necessarily


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

I agree that reasonably priced foods are not all bad. I do find, though, that there is a lot of snobbery about foods and ingredients - for instance the idea that all grains are bad, all fillers are bad and that a "good" food must have a very high meat content.
The issue, for me (and yes, this is just my opinion, based on my experiences with my dog) is that high meat content = high protein content which very definitely exacerbates my dogs behavioural problems. These foods are also expensive and I know the argument is that they work out cheaper as you need to feed the dog less but, when you have a walking stomach like my dog, it is difficult to persuade him that a small handful of kibble is all he needs to eat that day (no matter how creative I am about using treat balls, scatter feeding etc.).

It is very difficult to find a food that my dog can tolerate, that doesn't trigger colitis or bring him out in a rash. He is currently fed Barking Heads which I switched to from Arden Grange sensitive - both are only yellow on the dog food index on here but both of which he tolerates a lot better than any of the Green foods I have tried him on.
I agree, I can't see what the food is doing to him internally, but then nobody can and as long as he is a good weight, has no digestive problems and looks happy and healthy then I am happy.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I really really doubt if dog food manufacturers, who spend a great deal on research and mostly employ nutritionists, are going to add something to their food to kill the dogs that eat it.


Really? Look at all the things that have been banned in differing countries, (both in human and animal foods) look at the people who sadly lose their dogs, with food being implicated. No its not going to kill every single dog that eats it, but it does increase the risk. Thats NAFF all to do with price, or snobbery or XYZ dog lived until they were 132 feed only on sawdust, its just how it is. Like I said its our responsibility to take an active interest in our dogs nutrition, but not one strategy will fit each and every single dog on the planet.

If dog food manufacturers spend so much on "research" why are alot of foods crammed full of grains- which appears very little in a carnivores diet???- profit for them is why.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> Is he transparent?


Full bloods every few weeks and constant tests mean, he is probably known about more on the inside than many are on the outside


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## WhippetyAmey (Mar 4, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I really really doubt if dog food manufacturers, who spend a great deal on research and mostly employ nutritionists, are going to add something to their food to kill the dogs that eat it.


I can't believe this. It's crap.

That's like saying 'they wouldn't make coca cola if it was bad for us' as one example.

People make drugs, doesn't mean its good for us but plenty buy it and plenty die from them.

Edit: and plenty live until they are old - doesn't make it right!!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JenSteWillow said:


> Interesting
> 
> I don't look at the £ as a whole but work out how much its costs to feed per dog per day (using the guidelines on the back) MWH - 75p per day, per dog (well, £1.50 total, kyzer costs more to feed than willow as he's bigger  ). To me, that's cheap.. We discussed our limit being £1 a day per dog.
> 
> ...


Chappie dry isn't anything like the same as the cans. The dry was formulated by Mars/Pedigree whereas the tins were formulated many years ago by Waltham which unfortunately come under the Mars banner now


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

rona said:


> Chappie dry isn't anything like the same as the cans.


To be fair, it is. Both low meat, high grain.

Before you say it... I know it saved Muddy's life... but it's still not really any different, ingredients wise, from the dry.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

SixStar said:


> To be fair, it is. Both low meat, high grain.
> 
> Before you say it... I know it saved Muddy's life... but it's still not really any different, ingredients wise, from the dry.


How can you say that?

Both are so vague on actual facts on what is in the product. I've never heard of a dog doing well on Chappie dry (prove me wrong) However, Chappie wet suits many, many dogs


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

rona said:


> How can you say that?
> 
> Both are so vague on actual facts on what is in the product. I've never heard of a dog doing well on Chappie dry (prove me wrong) However, Chappie wet suits many, many dogs


Because it's quite obvious really?  Like I said - both high in grain and derivatives and low in meat, named at least.

Wet - Fish and Fish and Derivatives (including 14% Whitefish), Cereals, Meat and Animal Derivatives (including 4% Chicken), Oils and Fats, Minerals, Herbs

Dry - Cereals (min. 4% Whole Wheat), Derivatives of Vegetable Origin, Meat and Animal Derivatives (min. 4% Chicken), Oils and Fats, Minerals

No thoughts on the foods or whether there are dogs apparently doing well on either of them - just responding to your suggestion the wet & dry are nothing alike - because, ingredients wise, they are. That is all.


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

With our Spanish rescue dogs (and our own dogs too), we fed them the food available.
Our local pet shop sold a kibble from Russia (can't remember what it was called). It was very cheap and we did wonder if it was okay....
But then we ran out of food unexpectedly (a couple of new urgent admissions) and the car was out of action for a few days so we couldn't travel into the city to get a 'better' kibble, so we had to go to the local pet shop and buy the Russian kibble...and the dogs loved it!

So, allowing that those who say Bakers is bad also say dogs love it because of the 'tasty' additives, I am guessing this was a similar case, but the two starving podencos we took in put on weight and gained health quickly on the Russian kibble, so it was definitely okay for them.

I think it's like someone else said on here, giving dogs cheap food is probably like humans not getting their 5 a day - some do okay on it, others do not.
But if an undernourished, sick dog gains health fed on a careful diet of cheap kibble, then why would I want to say it is no good?


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

rona said:


> How can you say that?


But... you basically say the same thing 



> *Both *are so vague on actual facts on what is in the product.


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

We use Wagg working dog dry food plus a spoonful of tinned dog meat with each meal.
Works for us, no problems so far.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I was feeding raw, but it's not working out for Clover now. So she's on applaws dry, with some Natures menu wet


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I'm reading a lot of you saying raw didn't work out for your dogs. What reasons did they not work? (if you don't mind me asking).


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Muttly said:


> I'm reading a lot of you saying raw didn't work out for your dogs. What reasons did they not work? (if you don't mind me asking).


Clover is a very fussy eater, and with daisy no longer here, she stopped eating the raw. I tried everything. she will eat kibble, so she's gone back on kibble. Less stress for both of us


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

My dogs were raw fed for the vast majority of their lives so when I changed back to kibble I wanted something that was very similar but in a dry form. Therefore I dont feed any grains or cereals and only buy food with named meat proteins and at least 50% meat.

I couldnt give a monkeys what anybody else feeds their dog, thats their choice and they justify it how they want but personally for my dogs I can afford to feed a good quality food and so thats what I will do to attempt to increase the potential for health and longevity. I believe that poor quality ingredients will increase the likelihood of various illnesses and ailments, I cant really see how it wont in the long term. Those who have had dogs on poor diets that have lived to a ripe old age have had luck or genetics on their side, or something.

I currently feed Millies Wolfheart, with 2 dogs on the Tracker Mix (low fat as they put on weight easily) and 1 dog on his first bag of Ultima (high fat content and 40% carbs as he struggles to keep weight on). I am convinced this dog suffers with a chicken allergy so for me, it's really important that I know exactly what the ingredients are rather than generic terms like 'meat derivatives' which tells me nothing. Being a dog that also suffers seizures again it's important that I feed him a suitable food, something I am still experimenting with. If it turns out that I need to feed a more expensive food like Eden or AATU (I have fed the former previously) then thats what i'll do.

For any dog that is immuno-suppressed, or suffering with a condition, I think it's vital that we support their body by feeding a good quality food. I think dogs that are healthy could get away with being fed rubbish.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

WhippetyAmey said:


> I can't believe this. It's crap.
> 
> That's like saying 'they wouldn't make coca cola if it was bad for us' as one example.
> 
> ...


I can't believe what you are saying either. What on earth has coca cola or drugs got to do with a well balanced, well researched, complete meal for a dog.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I'm not going to make myself popular with what I'm a bout to say, but it's never stopped me before.


There is currently an enormous amount of snobbery (and downright misinformation) around dog food. I cannot speak for dog food sold in the rest of the world, but in the UK, dog food must be produced to minimum standards. These standards are based on what a. Dog needs to thrive.

Ergo, while there may be a food which your particular dog has issues with due to a diagnosed condition, there is no "crap food" on sale in The UK.


Anecdote: I asked my vet what diet related problem she saw most of. Her answer was that apart from dogs with malabsorption syndromes, those on home cooked or raw diets were the only ones she had seen suffering for malnutrition.


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## Tyton (Mar 9, 2013)

Oh well.. might as well jump on the bandwagon and admit to feeding my four on cheap rubbish!

We feed Dr John's - £10 for a 15kg sack that lasts our four gannets about a week. Have tried higher quality foods, and either they don't like it (puppy with his wainwright's giant breed puppy food at >4x the price!) or I don't like cleaning up what comes out!! They do pass a lot of bulk in stool, but with four giants; I don't expect much else. They have good appetites, are in good condition and the vets have no complaints. 

Our local Oscar's agent hates our dogs as they are in better condition than her own. they come and sit at the Oscar stall at shows, but won't taste the product; take it politely in their mouth and place it on the floor before coming back for a cuddle  She says she'd love to borrow them as advertising if only they'd eat her expensive food not the 'cheap rubbish' we actually feed them.

I say each to their own, if you're dog is fit and healthy and enjoying it's food. I wouldn't worry about the price tag. If there are particular reasons for one food over another - allergy/health concern etc, then that's different.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

I am a firm believer in quality when it comes to food both for me and my pets which includes my Koi. Its just not likely that cheap foods will contain quality ingredients and I am lucky enough that I can afford better quality foods. That's my choice though and plenty of dogs seem to do ok on cheaper foods so each to their own I say.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

My opinion is that you should feed your dog on whatever suits your pocket and your dog. 

Nothing wrong with many cheaper foods in my opinion, such as CSJ Champ, Skinners 23 etc - they may have cereal in, but they have no colours or BHT etc.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> Really? Look at all the things that have been banned in differing countries, (both in human and animal foods) look at the people who sadly lose their dogs, with food being implicated. No its not going to kill every single dog that eats it,* but it does increase the risk.* Thats NAFF all to do with price, or snobbery or XYZ dog lived until they were 132 feed only on sawdust, its just how it is. Like I said its our responsibility to take an active interest in our dogs nutrition, but not one strategy will fit each and every single dog on the planet.
> 
> If dog food manufacturers spend so much on "research" why are alot of foods crammed full of grains- which appears very little in a carnivores diet???- profit for them is why.


Does it though? really? every week I read "this ______ (insert product) is linked to cancer!" and then next week, the opposite, saying that thing is good for you. Research isn't the be all and end all and much of it is contradictory.

I'm no expert on cancer, but my experience of it is that if it's going to get you, it's probably going to get you no matter how 'healthy' you are. Much like it got my mums personal trainer, fitness freak, clean living vegetarian best friend and my aunt who was much the same, when she was barely 40. Life's a bitch.

Many dog foods are crammed full of grains because it's cheap to produce. If every dog food was made with very high levels of meat, the prices would have to significantly increase which I dare say would price many out of dog ownership.

I'm yet to be convinced that feeding a dog grain is as horrific as some make out. I guess the proof is in the pudding of the millions of dogs worldwide that are fed grain heavy diets and have life long, problem free lives.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Muttly said:


> Could that not be said for us humans too? We don't know until we develop a problem. But I don't buy premium brands for myself either.
> 
> That's a good comment on raw though!


What Sixstar said below.



SixStar said:


> Of course it could, but we choose what we stuff ourselves with - dogs don't have that luxury. They rely on us to make good choices for them. There are also additives in some dog foods that are prohibited in human foods, which says it all really.





Fleur said:


> *Also like in humans if you have digestive issues eating processed food can help, foods like Chappie can be life savers*


*

That's because it's incredibly bland and mostly rice.



SixStar said:



When these threads come round, as they do quite often, you'll always get the same stories of ''such and such dog ate Wagg/Bakers/Pedigree/whatever'' all their life and they were fit and healthy. It's just like how ''such and such smoked/drank/was obese'' all their life and they were fit and healthy too. Doesn't make either of them a good lifestyle choice... some people and dogs are just luckier than others.

One of my dogs wasn't one of the lucky ones though - dying of stomach cancer - which is thought to be directly linked to poor nutrition and the carcinogenic additives contained in some foods - and those aren't my words, they were from a very highly regarded canine oncologist. I know someone else on this forum has also sadly lost a dog in this way and told much the same thing - I believe their dog was fed the same food as Dylan ate too.

Sure - I have, and have had, dogs with medical conditions whilst I'm feeding a good quality diet - but I would rather know I am taking every possible step to protect their health by feeding a good diet. Thankfully for me, the diet I feel is the best for my dogs, also happens to be the cheapest one available to me.

Pedigree and Bakers are certainly not cheap - and even Wagg isn't the cheapest - a lot of the CSJ and Skinners ranges are on par with Wagg in terms of price. No the ingredients may not be fantastic, but they do not contain the carcinogenic additives, which Wagg does. Sod the grains - it's not the end of the world if a dog eats those - but I do find it very hard to stomach someone feeding their dog a food with BHT/BHA when there are same price alternatives without.

Click to expand...

You might mean me. I also had the oncologist tell me it was probably nutrition related. The food contained BHT/BHA and was extremely poor quality. I was an idiot.



Blitz said:



Sorry but I am not a believer in food causing cancer. I will feed what I like and I will eat what I like as most people do. There are faddy eaters and faddy feeders but I am not one of them.

Click to expand...

Thousands of studies would disagree and I don't think you're a nutritionist/scientist? And do what you like: don't mean to be rude, but no-one cares. It's your life, your dogs.



Delilahdog said:



We use Wagg working dog dry food plus a spoonful of tinned dog meat with each meal.
Works for us, no problems so far.

Click to expand...

Wagg contains BHT/BHA. Plenty of info on google about that. Not nice reading. You might find a more expensive food works out cheaper as you'll probably feed less.



Blitz said:



I can't believe what you are saying either. What on earth has coca cola or drugs got to do with a well balanced, well researched, complete meal for a dog.

Click to expand...

Trouble is, these 'complete' meals for dogs aren't, really, they're full of controversial fillers. I give the horse sugarbeet, I don't see why the dog would eat it-typical cheap filler in cheap dog food. Please don't imagine that dog food manufacturers, many of whom have other specialities originally-chocolate etc-a) give a crap if their food is 'complete' or even good for dogs or b) have done any research other than ticking the minimum standards box, which is woefully poor.*


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

SixStar said:


> When these threads come round, as they do quite often, you'll always get the same stories of ''such and such dog ate Wagg/Bakers/Pedigree/whatever'' all their life and they were fit and healthy. It's just like how ''such and such smoked/drank/was obese'' all their life and they were fit and healthy too. Doesn't make either of them a good lifestyle choice... some people and dogs are just luckier than others.
> 
> One of my dogs wasn't one of the lucky ones though - dying of stomach cancer - which is thought to be directly linked to poor nutrition and the carcinogenic additives contained in some foods - and those aren't my words, they were from a very highly regarded canine oncologist. I know someone else on this forum has also sadly lost a dog in this way and told much the same thing - I believe their dog was fed the same food as Dylan ate too.
> 
> ...


Really? :huh:

ASDA
Wagg 2.5kg = £2.68
12kg = £9.00
17kg = £12.00 (or £11.98 if you're pedantic)

Online Food Shopping - ASDA Groceries

Skinners - from my local pet shop
2kg (or is it 2.5kg - been a while since I bought it) = £7.55-£9.00

Off the top of my head, I don't know how much the larger bags are, so had to look elsewhere...

Pets at Home:
15kg bag = £26.49

Dry Dog Food for Sale. Pets at Home

CSJ is hard to find locally, so would have to shop online. Prices:
CSJ Original Dog Food - CSJK9 Ltd.

So, where, exactly, are Skinners and/or CSJ comparable on price with Wagg? I could get 2 bags of Wagg for less than 1 bag of Skinners, and incidentally, I'd need 2 bags regardless of whether I fed Skinners or Wagg, so can't really see how the price would be recovered in terms of feeding less. 

I would love to be able to spend £26 on dog food, and perhaps it would go further, and perhaps my dogs would need less of it, but when you're paid weekly on a zero hour contract, and have to consider rent, council tax, petrol, car insurance, road tax - not to mention your own food - and when yours is the only wage coming in, it's hard to justify that expense and you live in fear and hope that you'll have the money for the next bag when it runs out and invariably, you don't.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I honestly didn't think this thread would get as many responses so apologies for ducking out...been a very busy day of appointments...I will hit the likes and thanks over the course of the evening though.
Cheap doesn't mean low quality imo, our local pet shops make their own and don't charge much, which then leads to the question how much profit are people making from the higher end ones.

I do see the point of listing cheep foods beause yes they are in all the supermarkets but some people might want to know exactly what the ingredients are and if they're balanced properly and may not understand the labels like some of the folk on here do...I love the fact that there's a thread with both high and low end foods on it beecause people an go look and decide based on their budget.

I posted this thread for a few reasons and one of which is so people can post what they feed , even ask questions about it that they might have felt too embarrassed to ask before...and not feel shitty over it , I have absolutely nothing against those who buy high end food but I also believe that those who don't should never feel they have to hide it. I am not saying anyone in particular will judge but i do think the members who mentioned being judged was right in saying there are some who judge and I feel it's unfair....if someone had what they considered an important question about their dog the food could be a vital indicator and if some feel they have to lie or not disclose about the food ...EG...Fizz had runny poo...does anyone else with a dog on Harringtons have the same issue? I want people to be able to ask that and like it or not not everyone does.

If I was a millionair I would buy my dogs the best of everything....hell they'd have gold plated bows to last a lifetime....but I'm not (unfortunately lol) so they get what I can afford...which since my illness isn't as much as before but one thing they are is healthy happy and loved...and if I have a crappy week they all get what I can....and I sure a hell never saw a dog starve themselves when they're really hungry.
I really do believe in the 'they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't safe' thing...yes some have been taken off the market in the past....as have some baby foods...My son was on Oster milk when it was all called back 23 years ago....some tins, drinks, ceriels over the years...both budget and high end brands,,,I think there's just as much chance of this happening to our food as well as our dogs....it's not very often it happens and I've seen more human foods fly back to the manufacturors than dog foods, I have a cupbpard full of supermarket budget brands and not fussed about admitting it...it feeds my family so all's good..... I am neither pro cheap nor pro expensive I am pro dog and what the loving owner can and can't afford and what suits their dogs. Some dogs such as Muddy ( my boyfriends brother) would have been screwed without cheap food, and others need higher end more expensive ones for health reasons....that's ok.. I will be honest...unless I go get the bag I couldn't tell you what % of what is in my dogs food...it's good for them and a brand I know many have used for their dogs...my pooches are 2 , 5 and 14 give or take a few months....can't be doing too bad with the old coger being aincient can I?


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

The comment by cinnamontoast re sugar beet being a "filler" ( though I've no idea what she means by a "filler") just shows the misinformation around the whole subject of dog food.

Sugar beet is NOT added to dog food as a "cheap filler". It serves an essential purpose.

Go google it.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

labradrk said:


> Does it though? really? every week I read "this ______ (insert product) is linked to cancer!" and then next week, the opposite, saying that thing is good for you. Research isn't the be all and end all and much of it is contradictory.
> 
> I'm no expert on cancer, but my experience of it is that if it's going to get you, it's probably going to get you no matter how 'healthy' you are. Much like it got my mums personal trainer, fitness freak, clean living vegetarian best friend and my aunt who was much the same, when she was barely 40. Life's a bitch.
> 
> ...


like i said tbe grain rich diets are for profit for the producer.... no question. Also not disputing they are suitable for dogs, which have probably evolved and adapted to grains in their diet since domestication, thats not what i said at all.But carcinogenic agents added to food? There is catagoric proof that you are more likely (not guaranteed to) get certain cancers if you live certain lifestyles, diet DOES play a huge part in that - people can choose to be fat and unhealthy, they can choose what they shove in their faces, dogs cant, so as owners we do have a responsibility.

Once again, its not a one size fits all strategy. I recently moved from raw (which i believe to be the absolute best diet for MY dog) because my ex is useless, and would over feed raw for 3 weeks and then buy the cheapest additive filled crap for the last week of a month. Dog was gaining about a kilo a year, i knew this had to stop a) because of the week of additive/ colour filled food and b) fat is not healthy......... its my responsibility.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I never understood why rice was bad for dogs in dog food when vets tell you to give something plain like rice and cooked chicken (or white fish) if they have an upset tummy, or scrambled egg. 

Food with grains in though do give JJ the squits. I've tried him with cooked fresh rice and he was ok. I came to conclusion it must be do with the manufacturing process of the kibble and all the extra's some put in. If you check ingredients some kibbles do have way more ingredients in than others.

Wasn't there some thing about IAMS dog food before? was that just cos it had grains in or cos it had the carcinogenics in?


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> I never understood why rice was bad for dogs in dog food when vets tell you to give something plain like rice and cooked chicken (or white fish) if they have an upset tummy, or scrambled egg.
> 
> Food with grains in though do give JJ the squits. I've tried him with cooked fresh rice and he was ok. I came to conclusion it must be do with the manufacturing process of the kibble and all the extra's some put in. If you check ingredients some kibbles do have way more ingredients in than others.
> 
> Wasn't there some thing about IAMS dog food before? was that just cos it had grains in or cos it had the carcinogenics in?


Or its gluten. Rice does not contain it.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

LinznMilly said:


> Really? :huh:
> 
> ASDA
> Wagg 2.5kg = £2.68
> ...


But how much of each do you need to feed? That's where the difference in price might be deceptive.



Old Shep said:


> The comment by cinnamontoast re sugar beet being a "filler" ( though I've no idea what she means by a "filler") just shows the misinformation around the whole subject of dog food.
> 
> Sugar beet is NOT added to dog food as a "cheap filler". It serves an essential purpose.
> 
> Go google it.


I have, at length, for nearly five years. I still don't think it's a necessary element of dog food. There are other ways of incorporating the fibre element. Why include corn, rice, wheat as the main ingredient. Sounds like horse feed! Of course, dog food companies are going to produce studies saying it's fab for dogs, but I'm not sure I agree, although I wouldn't dismiss a food containing it, I just don't think it's a quality ingredient. Just one view: 'It is a controversial ingredient in dog food, claimed by some manufacturers to be a good source of fibre, and derided by others as an ingredient added to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats and causing stress to kidney and liver in the process. We note that beet pulp is an ingredient that commonly causes problems for dogs, including allergies and ear infections, and prefer not to see it used in dog food'.

In one dog food I checked, there is mistletoe extract. Go figure.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> I'm not going to make myself popular with what I'm a bout to say, but it's never stopped me before.
> 
> There is currently an enormous amount of snobbery (and downright misinformation) around dog food. I cannot speak for dog food sold in the rest of the world, but in the UK, dog food must be produced to minimum standards. These standards are based on what a. Dog needs to thrive.
> 
> ...


Actually, you are also misinformed. A dog food is only required to keep a dog alive for 6 months, it is certainly not required to make a dog "thrive" before it is deemed safe. Therefore there are a plethora of crap dog foods for sale in the UK. Also, there are numerous foods on sale here that are not produced here and are thus meeting a different set of standards.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> I'd just like to know if there is a cheaper grain free one than £35 for 10kg that also only has a single ingredient and the gravy is the same as the main meat/fish.
> 
> I looked at F4D cos I liked the bag with the collie on the front but that works out more expensive than his current one. The CSJ no grainer has too many different meats in and tripe was the main ingredient (gives him squits tried him on a tripe filled bone before).
> 
> ...


I used to buy my dogs food from here before I switched to raw food. Would recommend Working Dog Food WorkingHPRs | Quality dog food for working gundogs


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Each to there own - I wouldn't judge someone for a feeding choice. 

Millie used to be fed Wagg when we got her - infact we have tried a lot of foods from Skinners to Ziwi Peak. Neither she thrived on - we current feed a middle of the road food (Fishmongers wet from PAH).

Personally I want to try avoid any colourants / additives / cereal in Millie's diet just like in my own but that's my personal choice. 

At the end of the day you feed what you can afford and what suits your dog.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Nothing wrong with feeding cheaper foods, as long as they are not full of crap. 
Personally I couldn't feed my dog a food that I knew was full of bad ingredients (bakers for example) but equally, I wouldn't feel bad feeding her a food that was cheap to buy but contained decent ingredients and wasn't packed with grains etc.

Lucky has been raw fed since she was a pup (6 months old) and it costs me about £3 a week so for me this is a very cheap way to feed her. My sister feeds her JRT pedigree tins and she spends about the same per week as I do.
There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with him on the outside but he is a few months younger than Lucky and has awful breath, tartar on a few teeth and a drier coat.
When he lived with me for a couple of months he was also on raw and looked different on the outside in terms of his coat, his teeth were better too.
To my sister though he looks perfectly healthy, but I can see the difference.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> There is currently an enormous amount of snobbery (and downright misinformation) around dog food. I cannot speak for dog food sold in the rest of the world, but in the UK, dog food must be produced to minimum standards. These standards are based on what a. Dog needs to thrive.


Standards which are produced by the pet food companies which strangely match the ingredients which were already in use. The american AAFCO standards were sponsored by Hills and the EU version is almost identical when I last looked. Fact is the balance of minerals etc are designed for the ingredients of the major manufacturers. For those who don't know diet isn't clear cut with need X levels for everything. Different levels of things like minerals actually aid or hinder absorption of other vitamins/minerals. The inclusion of vegetable fiber also has an impact on absorption levels. It's not a case of matches standards, best food for dogs by any means.

Besides all that. The minimum wage is a standard. I wouldn't want to live on it if I could avoid it.



> Anecdote: I asked my vet what diet related problem she saw most of. Her answer was that apart from dogs with malabsorption syndromes, those on home cooked or raw diets were the only ones she had seen suffering for malnutrition.


The cause of diabetes isn't medically diet related, nor are kidney problems, heart problems, dental problems, allergies/intolerances or digestive problems. Cancer's already been mentioned. Obesity isn't a symptom of diet either with all that entails  Many illnesses are diet related but are not directly linked to it by vets.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

cinnamontoast said:


> But how much of each do you need to feed? That's where the difference in price might be deceptive.
> .


I don't notice any difference in either. If I bought Skinners one Thursday (pay day) and Wagg the next Thursday, both would run out by the following Tuesday.

I genuinely wish I could afford £18 per week for 2 bags of Skinners but I can't (although perhaps an alternative way, now that I am back at work, would be to get one bag of each and use the Skinners til it ran out and the Wagg as backup ... Might have to think about that).


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## Margelli (Jun 23, 2014)

Not going to lie, I feed whatever means that picking up after them is not a traumatic experience :lol:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

LinznMilly said:


> Really? :huh:
> 
> ASDA
> Wagg 2.5kg = £2.68
> ...


CSJ Champ - £11.50 for 15kg - Champ! Adult - CSJ Champ!

Ok, so you get 17kg in the big bags of Wagg (hadn't realised that) - but a negligible difference in price really - there is no BHA/BHT in CSJ foods.

Skinners Maintenance £14.95 for 15kg, on subscribe & save - Skinners Field and Trial Maintenance Dry Mix 15 kg: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

A couple of quid more, but again no BHA/BHT.

Price difference is what - a weeks worth of a broadband or mobile phone contract?


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> Wasn't there some thing about IAMS dog food before? was that just cos it had grains in or cos it had the carcinogenics in?


Animal experimentation. Lots of info on the net. Wouldn't touch their food with a barge pole, I couldn't find that, regardless of arguments presented. I'd think about it each time I opened the bag.


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Muttly said:


> I'm reading a lot of you saying raw didn't work out for your dogs. What reasons did they not work? (if you don't mind me asking).


Willow got 'fat' peaked at 33kg .. Cos of her skin issues we ended up on chicken, fish & liver (back to basics) & it got no better after 3 months of 'basics' .. Even though her daily allowance was that of a 25kg dog (i was obviously doing something wrong!)

Kyzer... I found it difficult to work out how much a growing pup needed (started on raw at 8wk old) , he was skinny looking.. Then it got too expensive to feed more unfortunately.. Plus was worried i'd do it wrong in balancing each meat/offall/bone & it would affect him physicaly  (growth etc)

Went back to kibble and all is well


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

I am not a person who feeds raw or complete dry kibble. My two are fed on wet food (winalot) and mixer (pedigree chum). I generally buy in bulk (eg 24 for £10). They have one tin a day each so a pack of 24 lasts 12 days. Mixer of course lasts longer especialyl as I buy the big bags. In the shops though dry is definitely the favoured choice. 

Both are very healthy dogs (though can be fussy with treats) and they wolf down there dinners, I guess the point I am trying to make is that I am not really a dog food snob, if people feed raw or dry or wet, it doesn't bother me. As long as my dogs are healthy that's what matters


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Alfie is fed Royal Canin tinned chicken Sensitivity, can anyone tell me if it contains bht/bha? Looked online but couldn't see any info. 

Kyla is fed Fishmongers finest kibble along with Naturo trays, Lily also fishmongers finest kibble and either Naturo trays or Hi Life pouches. 

Housemate feeds his two westies Happydog kibble.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

I feed my two Evoloution although pricey, for two dogs their size, it works for us. I'll pick up 2 tins of Evoloution wet too when I'm in PAH when that runs out I go to Tescos and pick up that food in a tray for a quid which lasts us a week (mixed in with dry).

If I can't get to PAH I get Lilly's Kitchen, well I did from our Tesco until they got rid of it. If not they sometimes get raw eggs and Weetabix, bones,OHs Quorn mince and pasta if I am really desperate.

I've been through a whole rainbow of dog foods but this one produces the fewest poos with the least amount of smells. My OHs parents feed their JR Bakers, Aldis own wet trays and various human foods and I've never seen a dog look so bloody good, as far as I know he has no health issues either!


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

I think in regards to dog food its whatever suits the dog. Whether it be £1 a sack or £50 a sack!!! Some dogs just prefer some foods over others, the dogs dont know and understand prices and ingredients. The dogs just know what they like. A bit like toddlers really. We can want them to eat better, but can't force them. Ive fostered some dogs over the years who have gone on to have Bakers and Wagg all their life because thats what they've loved and they lived on to 15yrs ive had dogs on expensive food live shorter lives. That can be said for most dogs around the world, that food isnt normally what decides when their life ends.

Also I dont agree anyone should be looked down on for giving something like a supermarkets own brand, bakers or wagg etc over a top brand that costs £50. We all do our best on what we can afford and as long as our dogs are happy and healthy and loved then worrying what food snobs think is not something anyone should worry about  

My dogs are on Arden Grange Senior and Arden Grange Puppy. Its a middle of the range food. Ive fed cheaper brands over the years to my own and more expensive.


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

SixStar said:


> Oh dear...
> 
> I was actually suggesting CHEAPER alternatives to those foods people commonly feed ''because they can't afford anything else''.
> 
> Most bizarre how this is guilt tripping people into feeding foods that will break the bank :skep:


Ive looked at your food list. The colour coded just seems a matter of your opinion, I think Arden Grange is better than middling. Hehe, thats the thing with foods 

What foods are a similar price to Bakers, Wagg but Better quality? And i suppose again it depends what you look for in quality though?


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2015)

Doggiedelight said:


> Ive looked at your food list. The colour coded just seems a matter of your opinion, I think Arden Grange is better than middling. Hehe, thats the thing with foods


Yes it IS just SixStar's opinion - she openly admits that. I THINK for a food to be 'green' it has to be grain-free under her system.

I personally wouldn't call Arden Grange a top food with 26% rice (plus most varieties also have maize). It's fine, but it IS a middle food in my opinion.


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

McKenzie said:


> Yes it IS just SixStar's opinion - she openly admits that. I THINK for a food to be 'green' it has to be grain-free under her system.
> 
> I personally wouldn't call Arden Grange a top food with 26% rice (plus most varieties also have maize). It's fine, but it IS a middle food in my opinion.


It wasn't a dig! We all have opinions about foods. Dog or human.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

SixStar said:


> CSJ Champ - £11.50 for 15kg - Champ! Adult - CSJ Champ!
> 
> Ok, so you get 17kg in the big bags of Wagg (hadn't realised that) - but a negligible difference in price really - there is no BHA/BHT in CSJ foods.
> 
> ...


But if you're only getting SSP @ £87.55p/w and are expected to pay rent and C/T out of that, you're forced to get the smaller, 2.5kg bags and even the difference of a week's worth of BB or mobile phone contract is hard to justify. £5.36 for 2 bags of Wagg which will still keep the dogs fed all week is one hell of a lot more affordable in those circumstances, than £15-18.00 for a couple bags of Skinners.

However, now that I'm back at work (and it's Pay Day!) I might look into getting CSJ, so thanks for the link.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

May I add Dottie and Charlie enjoyed their Chappie mixed in with dry this morning!


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

JWB grain free was also listed as orange and that's completely grain free? 

Mine are only on GF now cos of JJ's sensitivities and its easier to feed them the same thing. At 14yo it doesn't really matter what Inca eats, she won't eat a 'full meal' in one go anyway..if you put chicken in with kibble she'll pick out the chicken and leave most of the kibble unless coat it with gravy or its something like pilchards in tomato sauce which would coat the kibble too. I soften hers first by pouring a bit of boiling water over it then draining it off. 

Inca tends to get whatever she will eat at this stage so she's eaten at least a few small portions each day. As she loves chicken and chicken flavoured stuff I use Forthglade wet ..(chicken and liver one this time) and use it to stuff a kong or the kong starpod which she finds it easier to empty or put in a hollowed out bone. 

JJ likes the applaws tins and pouches and the Hi Life pouches so sometimes he gets some of that on his kibble if they can't have a bit of whatever I'm having. It makes it more interesting for them than dry kibble every day. I might take some of his kibble portion and cut up a GF hot dog then divide that portion between a treatball or some scattered in his ball pool or round the garden to sniff out... or the interactive puzzles if its raining and need to think of something indoors to amuse them.

I get the cheap fish fillets that can be microwaved from frozen and sometimes she has one of those with rice or sweet potato. I don't give JJ rice so he'd have a bit of fish flaked on top of his kibble. if i did them veg he'd get some of that on too. JJ also likes a bit of banana and natural yoghurt on a bit of kibble for breakfast when I'm having fruit and yoghurt for breakfast. Inca won't eat much first thing but give her half a weetabix with milk to get her painkillers down her or a bit of wet. 

Mixer biscuits are hard to find that completely grain free but at least with a grain free complete I know he's getting all his vitamins between the kibble and the fresh meat, fish and veg he gets. The extra toppers means the kibble lasts longer as I take some of the portion of his RDA off to allow for the sardine going on or whatever. Weight isn't a problem for him anyway being very active he gets runs round villages alongside mobility scooter and we manage to find somewhere on one of the walks he can go off-lead for a bit with a ball or playing with a collie friend, and he's playing out all day once we get back and gets several games of ball so he's well fit and his coat is like silk. It's like cuddling a Teddy with long silky fur!  

As money is tight could do with finding a grain free for under £35 for 10kg, so I'll try the one that was suggested. 

The regular JWB was cheaper for Inca though I'd get her about 3 x 2kg in different flavours from somewhere that had a deal on so one of the bags was free or half price or something.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I have 5 dogs. Price of food is a priority as long as the dogs are happy eating it and look well and healthy.

I have fed tripe and biscuits since my husband and I got our first dog 35 years ago. It works, always, never had a dog refuse it. I also feed a lot of roadkill.

As a child, my dad fed our dog pedigree chum and a mixer...the choice then was which brand of tinned meat and a mixer. I think chum was probably the dearest so my dad would think it the best and that's why he used it.

I dislike kibble, you just don't know what is in it....you don't know what is in a tin, either.

With raw, you don't have traceability or what the animal died from. Also, I have been to a tripe processing factory...not a pretty sight.

Don't think there is any set answer...if it works for you, it works...sod anybody else who may look down on you for not feeding your dogs what they consider the best.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

mixer biscuit I use now is £9.50 a 15kg sack.They don't get it everyday, its good value for money and if the dogs get chance, they will eat it without meat.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Doggiedelight said:


> Ive looked at your food list. The colour coded just seems a matter of your opinion, I think Arden Grange is better than middling. Hehe, thats the thing with foods
> 
> What foods are a similar price to Bakers, Wagg but Better quality? And i suppose again it depends what you look for in quality though?


Yes, it IS just my opinion. I am not sure how much clearer I can make that?!

CSJ and Skinners, as I mentioned earlier, not so much about being better quality - but being free of BHT and BHA.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Goldstar said:


> Nothing wrong with feeding cheaper foods, as long as they are not full of crap.
> Personally I couldn't feed my dog a food that I knew was full of bad ingredients (bakers for example) but equally, I wouldn't feel bad feeding her a food that was cheap to buy but contained decent ingredients and wasn't packed with grains etc.
> 
> Lucky has been raw fed since she was a pup (6 months old) and it costs me about £3 a week so for me this is a very cheap way to feed her. *My sister feeds her JRT pedigree tins and she spends about the same per week as I do.
> ...


This is interesting. But do all dogs respond in this way? No. (nothing against your post btw that's your experience, just wanted to use it to add my bit).

As I said I feed Muttly Winalot meat not the cassaroles, with mixer and about 3/4 times a week with rice or veg added, some fresh cooked meat (approx once a week) a rawhide bone and various other treats that I make myself and some just because he likes them.

He has a lovely soft coat, consistent and regular poo, clean teeth, nice breath, clean eyes and ears. The Vet said last night he is a very healthy boy.

Look at what he is fed on. 
Why should we be guilt tripped into 'buying the best/most expensive you can manage' I am comparing to human food and the most expensive/best is not always going to agree with you (it certainly doesn't me). As people have said not all dogs do well on raw either, and that's pure meat!!!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Muttly said:


> As I said I feed Muttly Winalot meat not the cassaroles, with mixer and about 3/4 times a week with rice or veg added, some fresh cooked meat (approx once a week) a rawhide bone and various other treats that I make myself and some just because he likes them.
> 
> He has a lovely soft coat, consistent and regular poo, clean teeth, nice breath, clean eyes and ears. The Vet said last night he is a very healthy boy.
> 
> ...


I'm sure my boy was fit and healthy as a youngster too, he was very successful racing Greyhound so I imagine he was in cracking shape. Only in later life did the dietary damage become clear - and to reiterate - not my words, but those of a veterinary oncologist.

If people are thinking a raw diet is just "pure meat", then perhaps that's why it is not working out...


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2015)

Muttly said:


> Why should we be guilt tripped into 'buying the best/most expensive you can manage' I am comparing to human food and the most expensive/best is not always going to agree with you (it certainly doesn't me). As people have said not all dogs do well on raw either, and that's pure meat!!!


No one should feel 'guilt-tripped' into anything. However everyone should realise that what goes into their dog's body is solely dependent on them, and that is a big responsibility. If people are taking this responsibility seriously, and feeding their dog the best diet that works for them and their dog  (taking into consideration all the things that have been raised on this thread about costs/medical issues etc) then that's all anyone can ask.


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

Muttly said:


> This is interesting. But do all dogs respond in this way? No. (nothing against your post btw that's your experience, just wanted to use it to add my bit).
> 
> As I said I feed Muttly Winalot meat not the cassaroles, with mixer and about 3/4 times a week with rice or veg added, some fresh cooked meat (approx once a week) a rawhide bone and various other treats that I make myself and some just because he likes them.
> 
> ...




We once dog sat a ridgeback for 2 months. To be fair to her owner, the dog had been a weakling as a pup with stomach complications but was a big healthy 2yr old when we looked after her.
We had strict instructions what to feed - James Wellbeloved with homecooked chicken. Several supplements, I forget what or what for now.
Meanwhile our dog was on her standard Wagg plus tinned dog meat (whatever we happened to grab off the shelf).
We followed instructions religiously but the dogs would invariably swap bowls half way through every meal.
When the owner came back she seemed almost miffed that her dog looked in such robust good health and questioned me in a rather disgruntled way what routine we had followed, because all her friends had commented how good the dog was looking.
Personally I think the difference was down to all the lovely walks we took the dogs on in the local woods and that we took them running with us several times a week. I don't think the change of diet made a jot of difference to either of them.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

It has been interesting to read about the link between Wagg and cancer as my childhood dog died from cancer... and was fed Wagg. I didn't really see the link until I got Jake. The first box of food I got him was Bakers, but I advised to feed something else so he went on to Wainwrights. Unfortunately, within about three months he was suffering from allergies and then research helped me find out about raw and make the switch. Jake hasn't had a single allergy related issue in five years. After reading though, I did wonder if there was a link between Sam's cancer and the food he was fed. My dad didn't agree and got a bit defensive... I have been convinced since though.


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> Don't think there is any set answer...if it works for you, it works...sod anybody else who may look down on you for not feeding your dogs what they consider the best.


Agree with this,

I can never work out why people get so bothered about what other people feed their dogs, or why anybody actually cares what other people think!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

A lot of people have mentioned about what comes out the other end. 
When you have an old dog who has trouble holding himself in the poo position, a quick fire sloppy poo is far better than a hard to move firm one :laugh:


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

rona said:


> A lot of people have mentioned about what comes out the other end.
> When you have an old dog who has trouble holding himself in the poo position, a quick fire sloppy poo is far better than a hard to move firm one :laugh:


But on the flip side, when you have an older dog who has little bowel control, firm ones preferred for picking up off the floor multiple times a day :lol:


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

lozzibear said:


> It has been interesting to read about the link between Wagg and cancer as my childhood dog died from cancer... and was fed Wagg. I didn't really see the link until I got Jake. The first box of food I got him was Bakers, but I advised to feed something else so he went on to Wainwrights. Unfortunately, within about three months he was suffering from allergies and then research helped me find out about raw and make the switch. Jake hasn't had a single allergy related issue in five years. After reading though, I did wonder if there was a link between Sam's cancer and the food he was fed. My dad didn't agree and got a bit defensive... I have been convinced since though.


My daughter has a 10 year old border collie that she got as a young pup. When she lived here, dog was fed tripe and biscuits and roadkill. daughter got her own house and took the dog with her and put her onto bakers cos someone said it was good food.

Dog started losing fur and looked a real scruffy mess after a couple of months.She thought it was the upheaval from mine to hers and the dog was an adult already( about 6 years old). She took the dog to a groomers....groomer said...what are you feeding? Groomer said she had lots of people with similar probs so stop feeding it.

Dog went on to another kibble and never had to go back to the groomer and is fit and well still.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

lozzibear said:


> It has been interesting to read about the link between Wagg and cancer as *my childhood dog died from cancer... and was fed Wagg*. I didn't really see the link until I got Jake. The first box of food I got him was Bakers, but I advised to feed something else so he went on to Wainwrights. Unfortunately, within about three months he was suffering from allergies and then research helped me find out about raw and make the switch. Jake hasn't had a single allergy related issue in five years. After reading though, I did wonder if there was a link between Sam's cancer and the food he was fed. My dad didn't agree and got a bit defensive...* I have been convinced since though*.


Why would you be convinced that his cancer was caused by eating Wagg? especially given the overwhelming incidences of many types of cancer being genetic.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

lozzibear said:


> It has been interesting to read about the link between Wagg and cancer as my childhood dog died from cancer... and was fed Wagg. I didn't really see the link until I got Jake. The first box of food I got him was Bakers, but I advised to feed something else so he went on to Wainwrights. Unfortunately, within about three months he was suffering from allergies and then research helped me find out about raw and make the switch. Jake hasn't had a single allergy related issue in five years. After reading though, I did wonder if there was a link between Sam's cancer and the food he was fed. My dad didn't agree and got a bit defensive... I have been convinced since though.


As many dogs die of cancer and many dogs are fed on waggs there is bound to be some fed on waggs that die of cancer 

I have had one dog that had bowel cancer, she was fed on sheep dog mix most of her life and the cancer caught up with her at a good age to go anyway - we were not aware of it until she was opened up after being put down.
Another had bone cancer and was fed on varying middle of the road dry food

I have never fed Wagg and as far as I know none of the people who die of various cancers eat Wagg either.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Why should we be guilt tripped into 'buying the best/most expensive you can manage' I am comparing to human food and the most expensive/best is not always going to agree with you


You see this is where some people are being conned, not by those who are saying "look at what your dog is eating" but by those who aren't. Show me where people are saying buy the most expensive and I'll show you where people are saying, "look at what a dog is and look at the ingredients within a dog food". I see nothing wrong with saying "buy the best you can which you can afford", in fact I call that getting value for money. That may be $50 it may be $10 but at least think about what you are feeding, not simply take the word of someone whose job it is to get you to buy their product.

As for cancer, yes it's genetic but who knows what triggers it. Hip dysplasia is also genetic however nutrition is also thought to play a part.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Goblin said:


> You see this is where some people are being conned, not by those who are saying "look at what your dog is eating" but by those who aren't. Show me where people are saying buy the most expensive and I'll show you where people are saying, "look at what a dog is and look at the ingredients within a dog food". I see nothing wrong with saying "buy the best you can which you can afford", in fact I call that getting value for money. That may be $50 it may be $10 but at least think about what you are feeding, not simply take the word of someone whose job it is to get you to buy their product.
> 
> As for cancer, yes it's genetic but who knows what triggers it. Hip dysplasia is also genetic however nutrition is also thought to play a part.


"A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Its the look you get or the posts in reply that I think Muttly is referring to.

My dogs are fit well and healthy. I feed mainly tripe and biscuits cos it works for us. If someone wanted to pay the price for RC for the same amount of dogs I have, good for them...none of my business. If they asked me what I feed and why, I would tell them...I wouldn't look down my nose at them for feeding something I think is inferior and also much more expensive.

That's not always the case though...plenty people think they and only they feed the best cos they are the best owners, love their dogs the most...and so it goes on....and these are the ones who think we should all do as they say.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

labradrk said:


> Why would you be convinced that his cancer was caused by eating Wagg? especially given the overwhelming incidences of many types of cancer being genetic.


I think there was some documentary on TV about this a few years ago....cancers in younger dogs being linked to food


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

labradrk said:


> Why would you be convinced that his cancer was caused by eating Wagg? especially given the overwhelming incidences of many types of cancer being genetic.


Because of all the rubbish in that food... I strongly believe the rates of cancer in dogs are increasing for a reason, not just food but over vaccinating and other chemicals we put on our dogs. At the end of the day, it is what I believe whether others agree or not, my feelings are the same. He was only 9 or 10 when he died (depending on whose age you go by, the SSPCAs or the vets).


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> No one should feel 'guilt-tripped' into anything. However everyone should realise that what goes into their dog's body is solely dependent on them, and that is a big responsibility. If people are taking this responsibility seriously, and feeding their dog the best diet that works for them and their dog  (taking into consideration all the things that have been raised on this thread about costs/medical issues etc) then that's all anyone can ask.


I suppose the problem is, those of us who have or do feed cheaper, less quality foods, _are _made to feel guilty - not just here in DC, but in Cat Chat, too. My mum was mortified when they told her that Wiskas was a crap food, and I felt awful for suggesting she join the site.

Wasn't it you who said earlier that if we know better and can do better, then we should? How do you think that makes us feel if we have £30 to our name to last the week and have to feed both ourselves and the dog/s? Forget new clothes or shoes or trips to the hairdressers - no matter how badly they're needed, I just can't afford them.

Like I said, when I was forced to switch to Wagg because of financial problems, there was no way in Hell I was going to admit that on here, because I felt bad enough without the guilt-tripping.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> I suppose the problem is, those of us who have or do feed cheaper, less quality foods, _are _made to feel guilty - not just here in DC, but in Cat Chat, too. My mum was mortified when they told her that Wiskas was a crap food, and I felt awful for suggesting she join the site.
> 
> Wasn't it you who said earlier that if we know better and can do better, then we should? How do you think that makes us feel if we have £30 to our name to last the week and have to feed both ourselves and the dog/s? Forget new clothes or shoes or trips to the hairdressers - no matter how badly they're needed, I just can't afford them.
> 
> Like I said, when I was forced to switch to Wagg because of financial problems, there was no way in Hell I was going to admit that on here, because I felt bad enough without the guilt-tripping.


My army of cats is growing by the season. I always bought JW for them but now have at least 10 ferals and my own 6 cats indoors( 2 are daughters who moved back home indoors but I am paying for cat food.)

Somebody told me that Costco do a maintenance cat food at less than half the price of JW...she has much more cats than I do...so I changed.Cats love it and I am saving.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> I suppose the problem is, those of us who have or do feed cheaper, less quality foods, _are _made to feel guilty - not just here in DC, but in Cat Chat, too. My mum was mortified when they told her that Wiskas was a crap food, and I felt awful for suggesting she join the site.
> 
> Wasn't it you who said earlier that if we know better and can do better, then we should? How do you think that makes us feel if we have £30 to our name to last the week and have to feed both ourselves and the dog/s? Forget new clothes or shoes or trips to the hairdressers - no matter how badly they're needed, I just can't afford them.
> 
> Like I said, when I was forced to switch to Wagg because of financial problems, there was no way in Hell I was going to admit that on here, because I felt bad enough without the guilt-tripping.


But that's my whole point - you have to feed what suits you and your dog. If you have to feed Wagg, then you have to feed Wagg! That's doing the best you can for your dogs in your situation. Yes you know it's not great, but you're doing the best you can. Just like if someone has a dog that needs a particular food due to medical issues - they're doing the best they can for their dog in their situation.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Reasonable quality foods don't have to be expensive. You're looking £25 for a bag of Pedigree or Bakers online, the food I've just ordered Spen is £30 but looking at the ingredients is a far better food and if he needs a similar amount to what he's on now will last about 5 weeks. I don't really care what people feed their dogs to be honest, their dog their choice at the end of the day, but contrary to what a lot seem to think there's no reason a half decent food can't be fed without paying the £60-90 a bag charged for some top quality foods. 

And yeah, I get that sometimes it really is a case of buying whatever is cheapest. Just as with humans it's sometimes a choice between filling the belly or buying quality unfortunately. Been there, done that and if I'm in that position again I'll again buy the cheapest food going for me and the cheapest food going for my dog. As long as it's not Wagg anyway, much as I love Spen I can't cope with Wagg fed Spen :yikes:


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> , much as I love Spen I can't cope with Wagg fed Spen :yikes:


What's Wagg fed Spen like? :001_unsure:


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

If my pet were to have allergies or some other issue which could be connected to her food I would doubtless pay more attention and if other folk want to pay more/ take more time over it that's entirely their business and their money. On the whole it's a much better way of indulging a pet than buying it a dress imo.
The trouble is Delilah seems to get as much pleasure out of licking out a nappy as she does the Spaghetti Bolognese my mother in law cooks esp for her, leaving out the onions etc 
As for cancer and other health scares, we'll take our chances. It's generally the things you enjoy in life that kill you anyway!
Apart from having a wart removed Delilah's trips to the vet have so far been limited to annual vaccinations and a quick once over, which she passes with flying colours. She is energetic, bright eyed, glossy coated and a good weight. Her breath and her poo are both relatively inoffensive :thumbsup:
When/if any of that changes then we'll probably change but in the mean time walks are her biggest indulgence.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Muttly said:


> What's Wagg fed Spen like? :001_unsure:


Let's just say I can see why his previous owners wanted rid of him, they fed him Wagg and when I ran out of raw I bought a bag to see me through until the next delivery as he'd had it before. It's like he has ADHD or something when he's on it. He can't focus at all, he can't settle no matter what exercise he's had, you can't really do much mental stimulation due to him not being able to concentrate, he reverts to all sorts of inappropriate behaviours such as body slamming, lunging on leash, grabbing at me etc. He is a completely different dog if fed Wagg and it really brought it home to me just how big a difference food can make in behaviour at times.

He's been on Markus Muhle, some cheap German food, Wainwrights and Taste of the Wild with no problems at all so it's not a case of the difference between kibble in general and raw, it's Wagg.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

I feed Arkwrights to my lot...It's cheap as anything, but I'd buy this food if it was expensive. It fits the dogs I have at the minute. My oldest dog is 10 and she's had this food since she came home -- it was the main food the breeder was using. 

There was a time I was going to change the food, but the dogs thrive on it and aside from wanting to settle my own nerves in regards to the ingredients, I've got no reason to change brand at the moment. 

The dogs are top-form and I haven't had a diet/food related problem with any of them so far.


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## SarahPlzX (Nov 13, 2011)

My dog is fed the best food I can afford to feed her, unfortunately her allergies mean I'm limited to a small selection of expensive foods. But that's life, I'm not going to feed something she's allergic too if it meant saving money. I pay around £13 for a 2kg bag of food, which lasts about a month. Then treats and any wet foods are on top of that.

That being said, my cousins feed their dogs leftover human food, cooked bones, bakers complete...and their dogs do really well. That doesn't mean I'd feed my dog the same diet, that's a decision my cousins have made for their dogs, and Lilys diet is a decision I made for mine. Obviously, I have warned that cooked bones or bad, but if they chose to feed them it's none of my business.

SixStars list has been so, so helpful to me, and I feel like I know a lot more and can make more informed choices for my dog. :thumbsup:


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> Reasonable quality foods don't have to be expensive. You're looking £25 for a bag of Pedigree or Bakers online, the food I've just ordered Spen is £30 but looking at the ingredients is a far better food and if he needs a similar amount to what he's on now will last about 5 weeks. I don't really care what people feed their dogs to be honest, their dog their choice at the end of the day, but contrary to what a lot seem to think there's no reason a half decent food can't be fed without paying the £60-90 a bag charged for some top quality foods.
> 
> And yeah, I get that sometimes it really is a case of buying whatever is cheapest. Just as with humans it's sometimes a choice between filling the belly or buying quality unfortunately. Been there, done that and if I'm in that position again I'll again buy the cheapest food going for me and the cheapest food going for my dog. As long as it's not Wagg anyway, much as I love Spen I can't cope with Wagg fed Spen :yikes:


This is it, I have skinners salmon and rice for Red £22! Way way better than pedigree or wagg.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Let's just say I can see why his previous owners wanted rid of him, they fed him Wagg and when I ran out of raw I bought a bag to see me through until the next delivery as he'd had it before. It's like he has ADHD or something when he's on it. He can't focus at all, he can't settle no matter what exercise he's had, you can't really do much mental stimulation due to him not being able to concentrate, he reverts to all sorts of inappropriate behaviours such as body slamming, lunging on leash, grabbing at me etc. He is a completely different dog if fed Wagg and it really brought it home to me just how big a difference food can make in behaviour at times.
> 
> He's been on Markus Muhle, some cheap German food, Wainwrights and Taste of the Wild with no problems at all so it's not a case of the difference between kibble in general and raw, it's Wagg.


Dexter is like this with colourants....... even more of a nutter than usual..... :yikes:


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> Let's just say I can see why his previous owners wanted rid of him, they fed him Wagg and when I ran out of raw I bought a bag to see me through until the next delivery as he'd had it before. It's like he has ADHD or something when he's on it. He can't focus at all, he can't settle no matter what exercise he's had, you can't really do much mental stimulation due to him not being able to concentrate, he reverts to all sorts of inappropriate behaviours such as body slamming, lunging on leash, grabbing at me etc. He is a completely different dog if fed Wagg and it really brought it home to me just how big a difference food can make in behaviour at times.
> 
> He's been on Markus Muhle, some cheap German food, Wainwrights and Taste of the Wild with no problems at all so it's not a case of the difference between kibble in general and raw, it's Wagg.


Wow amazing what a difference food can make.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Not a dog owner here, so can't comment on what I feed my dog! I usually hang out in Cat Chat and I do have quite strong opinions about what a cat should eat in an IDEAL situation (which practically, financially, medically not all of us are in).

As for dogs, I discuss diet at new puppy checks. I do tend to recommend one of the 'premium' brands - Orijen, Millie's Wolfheart, Canagan etc. I do the same for adult dogs IF I am asked my opinion on diet, or if someone mentions they are thinking of changing their dog's food.

If I ask someone what they're feeding, they say Baker's and that they're happy with that and the dog is fine, I won't suggest they change it.

I have never really understood what makes Chappie so good for dogs with sensitive GI tracts, but it's a well known phenomenon in the profession. :blink:


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Mine are fed a middle of the road diet, around £38-40 every 6-8 weeks. 

Having said that Missy & Ty have been on everything in between throughout their years, from Bakers ( yep! ) to Eukanuba. The only diet that seemed to cause obvious effects was Beta with Ty. His skin became very dry and he had a lot of dandruff. 

And this past week on holiday, as I run out of their usual food I fed them Harringtons. ( and have done in the past too ) SO cheap! and the dogs enjoy it as a replacement diet. Again, Ty seems to be the one who shows effects - his poo was quite yellow and 'grainy' in colour. So for that reason I wouldn't feed them it long term, but as an emergency food it does the job. We've also used a good quality local pet shop food too....can't remember it's name but that was decent.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Thanks for your input Shoshanna, I have seen you giving good advice in Cat chat as I lurk in their from time to time. 

Do you ever recommend middle of the road brands?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Muttly said:


> Wow amazing what a difference food can make.


It really is. I'd heard about it for years but only really realised just how huge that difference could actually be when it came to a Wagg fueled Spendog. None of my other dogs seemed to be affected by food that way, Rupert had allergies so it had a physical effect on him but his behaviour wasn't noticeably different. Shadow and Wolf never had any problems either.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

McKenzie said:


> Do you ever recommend middle of the road brands?


Not really, but not because of any big agenda. If I recommend a food, I recommend those I really believe are 'the best' - bearing in mind that they still won't be the best for every dog out there.

I don't just say 'this one's the best, feed this.' I have a little chart of some common brands with the protein content and main ingredients, and discuss what to look for on the labels. I think if people are armed with knowledge to read the labels and understand a bit more what they're looking at, they can make their own decisions based on what is best for them and their dog.

It's not my job to guilt trip anyone into buying a certain food.

I think canine nutrition is a lot more complicated, personally.  I find cats simple - I'm not overwhelmed by Whiskas, but I would rather see a cat on Whiskas wet than Science Plan dry, for example.

I *do* usually butt in a bit with owners who feel all or mostly dry to their cats, but that's just to say 'please, please feed wet!' I don't really care what brand under those circumstances.

But, as I tell owners - ask 100 different people about what to feed your pet and you'll get 112 different answers.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Shoshannah said:


> Not a dog owner here, so can't comment on what I feed my dog! I usually hang out in Cat Chat and I do have quite strong opinions about what a cat should eat in an IDEAL situation (which practically, financially, medically not all of us are in).
> 
> As for dogs, I discuss diet at new puppy checks. I do tend to recommend one of the 'premium' brands - Orijen, Millie's Wolfheart, Canagan etc. I do the same for adult dogs IF I am asked my opinion on diet, or if someone mentions they are thinking of changing their dog's food.
> 
> ...


Lets hope they never change it 

We'd tried loads of highly expensive foods suggested by the vets, we were within two weeks of having Muddy PTS and I'd been saying all along to try Chappie. 
With the decision that we wouldn't let him suffer any longer we tried Chappie............8 years later :thumbsup:


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

I have to feed the higher end stuff because I have one with allergies.. they're fed raw and that suits them as I can control what is going in. Even with a lot of the higher end foods - I can't feed them cos of Louie's allergies.. not a lot of the dry foods are pork, rabbit or venison.. they often have chicken and other stuff in that I can't feed.


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Does anyone know if royal canin tinned Sensitivity contains bht/bha? I can't find any info thanks.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

EAD said:


> Does anyone know if royal canin tinned Sensitivity contains bht/bha? I can't find any info thanks.


All RC dry foods do but I am not sure about wet - they're pretty quick (and honest) with getting back to you via email.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Muttly said:


> *This is interesting. But do all dogs respond in this way? No.* (nothing against your post btw that's your experience, just wanted to use it to add my bit).
> 
> As I said I feed Muttly Winalot meat not the cassaroles, with mixer and about 3/4 times a week with rice or veg added, some fresh cooked meat (approx once a week) a rawhide bone and various other treats that I make myself and some just because he likes them.
> 
> ...


But how could anyone possibly know that their dogs wouldn't respond in the same way if their dogs have always been on low quality food?? There would be nothing to compare it to.

If Oscar (sisters JRT) hadn't been here on raw for a couple of months then I probably wouldn't have noticed a marked difference in him physically. 
Besides, just because a dog appears healthy when younger, doesn't mean to say that this won't change with age.

We had a Dachshund when I was a child, she was fed on supermarket branded kibble and wet. By the time she was 9 she had awful teeth and her general dog smell was quite bad too. 
She died of cancer shortly after turning 10, no proof to say that it was related to her awful diet but I am sure that the awful diet didn't do her any favours.


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## Ownedbymany (Nov 16, 2014)

Based on my first dogs weight & diet of pedigree (which isn't the cheapest and possibly not the worst quality) to what the costs are now it would work out about the same to feed him pedigree as it would a brand with significantly better ingredients. there a quite a lot such as Wagg or Tescos own which would apparently cost less than 30p a day, my dogs old diet 46p a day and the cheapest food I would be willing to buy if I was seriously struggling is 49p for the lukullus, a difference of between £70-100 per year.

Feeding my dogs pedigree was many years ago before we had access to internet shopping and good research. My first dog lived until 12 before having to be PTS due to cancer. Who knows if his cancer was due to the long term effects of bad diet, my second dog on pedigree lived til just under a year old and died of parvo despite being vaccinated, who knows if a bad diet caused a weakened immune system so he couldn't fight it because most dogs survive parvo after a certain age if supportive care is sought fast enough. Quite likely neither incident is directly related to diet but I personally would feed the best food I could now I have access to a greater range of products and more research rather than anything that's made up of unspecified ingredients and unnecessary additives.

I've lived on the bare minimum before so I do understand why there are people out there who don't feel they can afford a better diet for their pets. I've gone without electric, spent only £10 to feed and provide household items for two of us before but my pets are my children and I would move heaven and earth to get good quality food and vet treatment for them.

Worked out the costs using this site: The Dog Food Directory - now listing 1496 dog foods!

Just to add I'm not trying to "get" at anyone or judge anyone, I'm just trying to point out that changing your dog onto a better quality food needn't be horrifically expensive and is probably cheaper than most people would realise.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Although I feed my dogs good quality food now, I haven't always in the past. When I got my first dog he was fed on Bakers but I quickly moved them on to Arden Grange and Nutro (that reminds me, are US companies still allowed to used euthanised pets in their pet food?)

There came a time when I was on a very low paid job and I had to move them on to Chappie dry. They actually did very well on it at the time but as soon as I got a better paid job I switched them on to a quality diet. It was just a short term solution for me and a way to keep my dogs fed that was affordable so I dont have any issue with anybody who feeds a cheaper, poor quality food because they cant afford anything else.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

£15kg bag of Skinners, on offer @ £20 at my local pet shop :thumbup: Was a bit of a heave getting it home and in the cupboard, but at least it's in and I don't have to worry about feeding them for 3-4 weeks.


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## alan1971 (Apr 1, 2015)

this is an interesting thread, i also wondered how dogs ever survived years ago eating pedigree chum or bakers. ok the ingredients are'nt great considering some of foods around today, but still.


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

Leanne77 said:


> Although I feed my dogs good quality food now, I haven't always in the past. When I got my first dog he was fed on Bakers but I quickly moved them on to Arden Grange and Nutro (*that reminds me, are US companies still allowed to used euthanised pets in their pet food?)*
> There came a time when I was on a very low paid job and I had to move them on to Chappie dry. They actually did very well on it at the time but as soon as I got a better paid job I switched them on to a quality diet. It was just a short term solution for me and a way to keep my dogs fed that was affordable so I dont have any issue with anybody who feeds a cheaper, poor quality food because they cant afford anything else.


No? Seriously? Eeeeugh!
In the UK all pet foods have to be fit for human consumption don't they? I suppose when you think of some of the rubbish we shove down that isn't saying a lot.
I remember seeing reports on cows being fed on food padded out with cement dust & their own excrement so it didn't seem so surprising when the whole Mad Cow scandal broke.
I'm sure there is still plenty of ways the food industry in the UK/Europe can be improved but on the whole labelling etc is a lot better imo


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Delilahdog said:


> No? Seriously? Eeeeugh!
> In the UK all pet foods have to be fit for human consumption don't they? I suppose when you think of some of the rubbish we shove down that isn't saying a lot.
> I remember seeing reports on cows being fed on food padded out with cement dust & their own excrement so it didn't seem so surprising when the whole Mad Cow scandal broke.
> I'm sure there is still plenty of ways the food industry in the UK/Europe can be improved but on the whole labelling etc is a lot better imo


I think lots of human food isn't fit for human consumption....so why should pet food be of better standards and quality?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Delilahdog said:


> No? Seriously? Eeeeugh!
> In the UK all pet foods have to be fit for human consumption don't they? I suppose when you think of some of the rubbish we shove down that isn't saying a lot.
> I remember seeing reports on cows being fed on food padded out with cement dust & their own excrement so it didn't seem so surprising when the whole Mad Cow scandal broke.
> I'm sure there is still plenty of ways the food industry in the UK/Europe can be improved but on the whole labelling etc is a lot better imo


cattle are herbivores and only eat plants but before the BSE scandal broke, cattle feed was being bulked up with fish and animal remains.


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> I think lots of human food isn't fit for human consumption....so why should pet food be of better standards and quality?


I won't argue with that, it doesn't matter how it's marketed I won't eat MacDonald's and that is all there is to it.
However I believe there is a great deal more open-ness about how food is produced and stored these days, which means you can make a more educated choice.


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## morphtastic (Feb 5, 2015)

About 10 years ago we had some hard times and were very short on money so I sent hubby to the pet food store which was on his way to work to get some cheap complete food. At the time it was all we could afford, it was £6.50 for a 10kg bag. Its called Gusto Dry Dog food, they do a puppy, adult and senior variety. 
My dogs still have this food, now its £8.50 a bag but they love it (mind you they are goldies so any food will be eaten). My thinking is if it ain't broke dont fix it. At my training class new members always ask me what I feed my girls because their coats are so shiny and thick and they look so healthy.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Delilahdog said:


> I won't argue with that, it doesn't matter how it's marketed I won't eat MacDonald's and that is all there is to it.
> However I believe there is a great deal more open-ness about how food is produced and stored these days, which means you can make a more educated choice.


maybe..and the Dutch part of the recent horse beef scandal just got sent to prison.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Delilahdog said:


> I won't argue with that, it doesn't matter how it's marketed I won't eat MacDonald's and that is all there is to it.


Well I don't eat it often but just occasionally I like a Mac-chicken Burger with Fries and a Coke or a Kentucky Fried Chicken meal. It isn't good for me and I know that but its tasty and since I only go to the dark side a maximum of twice a year why not? I don't smoke (gave up 8 years ago) and I don't drink.

Life is too short not to indulge every once in a while.


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## aarons (Apr 16, 2015)

I've heard both sides of this. I error on the side of always buying the more expensive food because it's not worth risking the health of my pups


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

cbcdesign said:


> Well I don't eat it often but just occasionally I like a Mac-chicken Burger with Fries and a Coke or a Kentucky Fried Chicken meal. It isn't good for me and I know that but its tasty and since I only go to the dark side a maximum of twice a year why not? I don't smoke (gave up 8 years ago) and I don't drink.
> 
> Life is too short not to indulge every once in a while.


Whatever floats your boat.
I don't actually like MacDonalds regardless.
My guilty pleasures usually involve a sugar hit - been known to dispose of a whole packet of chocolate digestives without any assistance in one sitting :drool:


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Delilahdog said:


> No? Seriously? Eeeeugh!
> In the UK all pet foods have to be fit for human consumption don't they? I suppose when you think of some of the rubbish we shove down that isn't saying a lot.
> I remember seeing reports on cows being fed on food padded out with cement dust & their own excrement so it didn't seem so surprising when the whole Mad Cow scandal broke.
> I'm sure there is still plenty of ways the food industry in the UK/Europe can be improved but on the whole labelling etc is a lot better imo


There was a big thing about it a few years ago. US regulations allow pet cats and dogs to be made into pet food and I think the chemicals used to euthanise the animals supposedly caused some deaths. Just recalling from memory now but at the time I was feeding Nutro which was caught up in the scandal.


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

SixStar said:


> Yes, it IS just my opinion. I am not sure how much clearer I can make that?!
> 
> CSJ and Skinners, as I mentioned earlier, not so much about being better quality - but being free of BHT and BHA.


Well to be fair im newish to this forum and never seen the list before so wouldnt have know if it was your opinion or not. I wasnmt having dig so please dont take it as such.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Doggiedelight said:


> Well to be fait im newish to this forum and never seen the list before so wouldnt have know if it was your opinion or not. I wasnmt having dig so please dont take it as such.


Says so in big, bold, capital, red letters in the opening posts of both Indexes  Didn't take it as a dig, just letting you know.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

If JJ didn't have allergies I'm sure I'd have been tempted to try a much cheaper food though I'd try and find one where meat is at least the first ingredient. I can see how foods like Gusto can be tempting for huge bag for less than tenner especially if on an extremely tight budget.

Following a link *Sixstar* gave I've found another grain free one I like the look of, I decided to try the pack of 4 trial bags (4 x 2kg) different flavours giving me 8kg for £25 and trying their wet too for kong fillers as its cheaper than forthglade but also grain free.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Not had chance to look through the posts on this...also typing one handed cos my arm is still crappy so everything is taking 20 times longer than usual...anyway....over the years I've found different ways of saving pennys....another one here for anyone who's interested...probably already been suggested but no harm in posting it.
If you have a puppy or like me an older dog who can't wait instead of buying puppy pads I have used and now use again adult incontinence sheets, you can get them online, I get the from my chemist they're in all sizes big and small and they are almost identical to puppy pads but a hell of a lot cheeper....I paid 7 quid for 30 for Fizz I have to get the 90 by 90 ones with her being an adult dog. She does tell me sometimes but but sometimes she can't get there quick enough so does it in the house...so have one in the same room as her just in case...she's good with them though she doesn't use them as an alternative to going out


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Clare7435 said:


> Not had chance to look through the posts on this...also typing one handed cos my arm is still crappy so everything is taking 20 times longer than usual...anyway....over the years I've found different ways of saving pennys....another one here for anyone who's interested...probably already been suggested but no harm in posting it.
> If you have a puppy or like me an older dog who can't wait instead of buying puppy pads I have used and now use again adult incontinence sheets, you can get them online, I get the from my chemist they're in all sizes big and small and they are almost identical to puppy pads but a hell of a lot cheeper....I paid 7 quid for 30 for Fizz I have to get the 90 by 90 ones with her being an adult dog. She does tell me sometimes but but sometimes she can't get there quick enough so does it in the house...so have one in the same room as her just in case...she's good with them though she doesn't use them as an alternative to going out


Thats a good idea.I have this issue with Inca and the dog nappies are expensive. which chemist do you get them for £7 for 30 of them? Have you got a link? Thanks


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## knuckingfuts (Jan 11, 2014)

Sorry if its been said already but "cheap" is up for debate.
Lower quality food mean you feed more of it. 
False economy.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> Thats a good idea.I have this issue with Inca and the dog nappies are expensive. which chemist do you get them for £7 for 30 of them? Have you got a link? Thanks


Ours is just a local co op chemist and they tend to order stock depending on what they sell...these ones are made by Lillie health care and are called classic bed bed and chair pads...they're chlorine and latex free and they hold well without a smell, as do Sabanindas underpads...both are really good...the latter are from ebay will have a look at my history and post a link


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Indas Bed Pads - Disposable - 60cm x 60cm - Pack of 25 | eBay
These are the ones I got from ebay ....The Lillie healthcare ones have too much post and packaging on ebay for my liking but your local chemist would order them for you if they don't already stock them ....I made a mistake ,they're 7 75 for 25 not for 30 but still a good price compared to the puppy pads I was using


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## MyAnimals (Aug 14, 2014)

I used to feed cheap dog food when I got my first dog. I didn't know any different and didn't have any problems with it although found some brands better than others when it came to poop scooping  But one day it dawned on me that there may be something better and did a bit of research and decided to give raw a try. Very sceptical at first, thought it'd upset their stomachs, but it went down ok, came out the other end great! I couldn't believe how little poo there was. I kept feeding it and noticed their condition got better and better. It is also as cheap as feeding something like Wagg if you can source it from the right places. Personally I wouldn't feed cheap food again as I've seen for myself what a big difference it makes condition wise. Each to their own and I know many dogs who it suits fine. But for me I'd rather spend the same amount of money on fresh food just as I would for the rest of the family.


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

SixStar said:


> Yes, it IS just my opinion. I am not sure how much clearer I can make that?!
> 
> CSJ and Skinners, as I mentioned earlier, not so much about being better quality - but being free of BHT and BHA.


I just check asked Arden Grange as I was thinking of what you said about BHT/BHA and had confirmation that all Arden Grange food is BHT/BHA free. You probably knew that but ai didnt, Ive never been up on all the foods


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