# Another Staffy Attack.... Obviously the dogs fault



## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

Youngster in dog attack horror - News - lep.co.uk

Check this link and please please comment. Why would someone let there 2 year go up to a dog off its lead without a collare? :mad2::mad2:

I feel bad for the kiddie but ......... seriously?


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

stigDarley said:


> Youngster in dog attack horror - News - lep.co.uk
> 
> Check this link and please please comment. Why would someone let there 2 year go up to a dog off its lead without a collare? :mad2::mad2:
> 
> I feel bad for the kiddie but ......... seriously?


What was the parent doing when the toddler approached a strange offlead dog?? Friggin these parents are worse than the dogs that attack their kids!


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

stigDarley said:


> Youngster in dog attack horror - News - lep.co.uk
> 
> Check this link and please please comment. Why would someone let there 2 year go up to a dog off its lead without a collare? :mad2::mad2:
> 
> I feel bad for the kiddie but ......... seriously?


There is something seriously wrong with these idiots... a man hunt for a dog that will be killed cause a kid got slightly hurt obviously not that bad as he has been able to go home. 
And yes why would you let your child touch a unknown dog... my mum used to yank you away even if you looked like you were thinking about it.

Personally i'm glad the dog is loose he may live! And to be honest staff's are not violent i know quite a few and they are softies, not to mention i never believe that the child just stroked the dog more likely that it was rough with it.


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

it's ok check this one out Pet owners show their anger at park dog rule - Features - lep.co.uk

did you know because i own an akita they are "dangerouse dogs that should be on the banned dog list" :mad2::mad2::mad2: yet these horrible trollers have turned down my invite to come to my shop and meet my babies .... can't promise they won't slip and land on my fist several times


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

if some sain ppl could please comment on the thread i'd appreciate it as no doubt someone will jump on and say oh yeah Emma owns an Akita your Akita will do something like this! Just because were fighting for the council to no ban us from allowing our dogs off lead on the back fields as they have now decided they are a "nature reserve":mad2::frown:


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

Children can slip away very quickly..I used to have my son on reins all the time, he was a houdini and could get away while I zipped my handbag..

So Ok the parents should have been keeping a better hold of the child but what was the dog doing running about with no collar or lead and without an owner?

Ultimatly the looser will be this dog (if caught) and all other staffies & owners who will get tarred with the same brush..


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

i agree the dog should not have bite the child... but it is ALWAYS the dogs fault obviously :mad2: now not just the staffie owners but all dog owners (unless you have a lil one) will get tarred and be subjected to the dirty looks!


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

stigDarley said:


> it's ok check this one out Pet owners show their anger at park dog rule - Features - lep.co.uk
> 
> did you know because i own an akita they are "dangerouse dogs that should be on the banned dog list" :mad2::mad2::mad2: yet these horrible trollers have turned down my invite to come to my shop and meet my babies .... can't promise they won't slip and land on my fist several times


This is ridiculous no dog is born bad, normally this is because chavs train them to be fighter dogs, so why should the majority of pet owners suffer.... this country makes me sick!


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

have you not heard we steal new born babies to sait her blood lust.... oap for denta treats... have to keep her pearly whites nasher ready......... :thumbup:

As if i'm prob OTT with my dogs because i know if they out one paw wrong they would be whisked off and PTS and I would rather die then let that happen. So i'm soooooo careful to never put them in that position! :aureola:


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

stigDarley said:


> if some sain ppl could please comment on the thread i'd appreciate it as no doubt someone will jump on and say oh yeah Emma owns an Akita your Akita will do something like this! Just because were fighting for the council to no ban us from allowing our dogs off lead on the back fields as they have now decided they are a "nature reserve":mad2::frown:


I own an Akita, he is lovely


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

nothing quiet liek bear love... I rescued my Akita and have been to hell and back with that dog and cross fingers Holly is turning into a lovely bear... after alot of blood sweat and heart ache..... including my sitting in the middle of a muddy swamp booing my eyes out after 45 mins of trying to get her back on the lead including some missed rugby tackes!!! then the bugger came and sat next to me and looked at me like a fool! bet it looke hilariouse!


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

that person commenting named river should be shot i hate this attitude that only humans should be protected why bother to have any animal life why nnot just wipe them all out! Idiots the gene pool is seriously lacing in intelligent caring people


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

5rivers79 said:


> I own an Akita, he is lovely


See as i'm responsible owner i got my baby neutered because i don't think there are enough good Akita homes out there and as a resecue dog i don't know here history or bloodline.... but if i was a chav the next convo would be "what a good looking boy i have a btch i think we should breed them!".

Which really hacks me off when i get abused just becuase i won a bear does not make me an asbo granny bashing chav :mad2::mad2:


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

raggie doll said:


> that person commenting named river should be shot i hate this attitude that only humans should be protected why bother to have any animal life why nnot just wipe them all out! Idiots the gene pool is seriously lacing in intelligent caring people


try sydney olympic.... after i threatened him with defamation on my Dog and me and trolling he suddenly changed his tune pleb! Still here hoping he makes it to the shop and has a nasty accident  he tripped i tried to catch him him my fist n somehow impaled it on the side of his head oooppps oh well :thumbup:


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

I know this child shouldn't have been allowed to approach the dog 

but if a loose dog attacked my child or my dog I would do anything in my power to stop it. No it's not the dog's 'fault' but this can't be allowed to happen again.


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

what a shame that would be :thumbup::thumb up:

These people need to realise that humans AREN'T actually at the top of the food chain and you can't kill everything you dislike.... trust me if i could i would have killed off the majority of humanity


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

dorrit said:


> Children can slip away very quickly..I used to have my son on reins all the time, he was a houdini and could get away while I zipped my handbag..
> 
> So Ok the parents should have been keeping a better hold of the child but what was the dog doing running about with no collar or lead and without an owner?
> 
> Ultimatly the looser will be this dog (if caught) and all other staffies & owners who will get tarred with the same brush..


Thinkg is as a parent you have to be responsible for your child as dog owners have to be responsible for their dogs.... i really do wonder why the child was allowed near the dog in the first place when it claerly had no collar and owner with it?


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

bearcub said:


> I know this child shouldn't have been allowed to approach the dog
> 
> but if a loose dog attacked my child or my dog I would do anything in my power to stop it. No it's not the dog's 'fault' but this can't be allowed to happen again.


thing is if i had any child and saw a loose dog i didn't know i 1 would go near it 2 would put the child out of harms way on my hip furthest away from the dog...


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

it is tragic and i do feel for the child and his mum!


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

stigDarley said:


> thing is if i had any child and saw a loose dog i didn't know i 1 would go near it 2 would put the child out of harms way on my hip furthest away from the dog...


but these accidents can happen, even with a parent with eyes in the back of their head, children don't always do as they're told

all I'm saying is, in these circumstances, rare as they are we have to protect children from these things happening 

you can't use the argument the child shouldn't have done it unfortunately


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

what gets me is i know the child was hurt but but but!!!...... the woman seems to be cheered on for kicking the dog wasn't there another way!


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

raggie doll said:


> what gets me is i know the child was hurt but but but!!!...... the woman seems to be cheered on for kicking the dog wasn't there another way!


that's exactly what I would do if my child or Florence was being attacked

sorry but as a parent or a dog parent you just do what your instincts tell you


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

i get what your saying the only thing for me is I've seen many gets be cruel and rough to dogs so was this kid just stroking the dog or frightening it in some way, either way that child should be on one of those harnesses my mum used to have us on that way your covered


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Toddlers should* NOT* just "slip away". Keep hold of the childs hand or put a harness on the kid so that it doesnt get too far?? A child that "slips away" could easily end up under a car travelling at 30mph as it could in a dogs mouth being mauled. What would happen then? Put the driver to sleep too?


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## Manoy Moneelil (Sep 1, 2011)

Is the fact that the incident took place outside a "booze" shop not indicative of the stereotyping that I am sure many of us read into the whole situation?

Two year old loose on the pavement - shouldn't be a problem.

Parent should have taught the child not to approach dogs/strange dogs but at least the mother was there to act, and the use of deadly force in such a situation is a a no brainier, in the USA had the event happen in a state where carrying side-arms was legal the dog would probably have been shot on sight. End of debate.

Could the child have run into the road? Yes, but that didn't happen did it!

The dog in question probably does not live on the streets but is a "chav accessory", find the dog, PTS, charge the owner with GBH on a child by proxy. Probably the only way to send a clear message to dog owners to be responsible in a public place.

The law states that dogs must be under control in a public place - not on a lead is not under control.

It took a *few * loonies with firearms to have private gun ownership banned completely within the UK, do you honestly think that the media couldn't be whipped up into a *muzzle every dog in public frenzy*?

If the isolated cases had harsh consequences the rule of law would be followed, example if being caught speeding +5mph over the limit regardless of road or time of day resulted in a one year ban, no exceptions. Would that make you observe the speed limit more closely?


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Ok poor child being bitten by the dog but now a man hunt will be on for a dog that was minding its own business. A two year old child should not be walking along a pavement ' loose ' They should be holding an adults hand or wearing a harness of some kind.

All children should be taught whether it be in school or in the home not to approach dogs and stroke them without first asking the dogs onwners permission.

When I walk my dogs there is often a lot of small children around coming home from school. The amount of times I have to tell the kids not to stroke my dogs even if the dogs have stopped to have a wee kids are running around them pestering them. I can usually get out on the walk without meeting the kids and get back aftre they have all gone down but there is always stragglers and its the kids with their parents /minders that are the ones that pester the dogs.:mad2::mad2::mad2: I don't mind the kids fussing the little dogs or the pups but Simba gets stressed and doesn't like the noisy kids chasing him.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

The dog should never have been outside a shop alone, the parent should never have allowed the child to touch it but one things for sure, none of this was the childs fault - poor lil mite knew no better 

That is the problem with Staffs though - mother had to kick the dog to get it to let go of the child - when they bite they don' t just bite they hold on and yet I see so mamy off lead. Worrying when most other dogs are on lead and round here it's illegal not to have all dogs on lead but a lot of Staffy owners here seem to think it doesn't apply to them, just the rest of us.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2011)

ok but seriously my kids know not too touch an off lead OR on lead dog, unless they have permission and they do it correctly... ok i know we are "doggy" people and not everyone is.... but surely this is the parents fault AND the owner
both are at fault the dog should not have been alone, off lead and in a busy public place.... the child should have been HOLDING PARENTS HAND,and told not to go near the dog
so we all know whats going to happen the dog will get the blame and no blame will be placed on the parent


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

axl said:


> ok but seriously my kids know not too touch an off lead OR on lead dog, unless they have permission and they do it correctly... ok i know we are "doggy" people and not everyone is.... but surely this is the parents fault AND the owner
> both are at fault the dog should not have been alone, off lead and in a busy public place.... the child should have been HOLDING PARENTS HAND,and told not to go near the dog
> so we all know whats going to happen the dog will get the blame and no blame will be placed on the parent


this is what i think. Then it's another "killer staffy" so teh poor staffie owners will all recieve flack for this!!! :mad2::mad2:


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I look at it this way, my dogs wouldn't bite anyone as I am always with them and would never let a child stroke them even though I am with them cos kids can spook any dog and as I don't have any children visit my house they don't know what these small noisy people are, so no way would I let a kid near them.

However if they did bite a child I would be absolutely devastated as I know they would be pts, it's part of the DDA and whether we like it or not any dog that bites anyone in a public area is doomed to be destroyed. That's the law and that's why no one, unless I say so touches any of my dogs and even then I feel I take a risk!

Dogs fault or not, it's a biter and has to be destroyed in the eyes of the law.

That is why our biggest fear in this house is our dogs getting out, not only because of accidents and getting run over, lost etc. it's that in fear they could bite someone and we all know they would be destroyed and mine are lovely, family dogs but I know what would *have* to happen if they bit someone.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I look at it this way, my dogs wouldn't bite anyone as I am always with them and would never let a child stroke them even though I am with them cos kids can spook any dog and as I don't have any children visit my house they don't know what these small noisy people are, so no way would I let a kid near them.
> 
> However if they did bite a child I would be absolutely devastated as I know they would be pts, it's part of the DDA and whether we like it or not any dog that bites anyone in a public area is doomed to be destroyed. That's the law and that's why no one, unless I say so touches any of my dogs and even then I feel I take a risk!
> 
> ...


exactly as much as i know my dogs and trust them implicitly, i dont allow people to touch the dog unless they have been speaking to me for a while first, so the dogs are not as "hyper" in the home its different... but i agree i dont allow people to stroke my boys unless i say its ok.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Malmum said:


> I look at it this way, my dogs wouldn't bite anyone as I am always with them and would never let a child stroke them even though I am with them cos kids can spook any dog and as I don't have any children visit my house they don't know what these small noisy people are, so no way would I let a kid near them.
> 
> However if they did bite a child I would be absolutely devastated as I know they would be pts, it's part of the DDA and whether we like it or not any dog that bites anyone in a public area is doomed to be destroyed. That's the law and that's why no one, unless I say so touches any of my dogs and even then I feel I take a risk!
> 
> ...


No it doesn't. Other options are available under the law, biting someone is not automatic destruction.

Dangerous Dogs Act 1991


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I just wish there were stronger penalties for having an out of control dog. That dog should of been on a lead, I see too many Staffs allowed to wander up and down busy roads without a lead and often without a collar. Coming home from work the other day I saw 2 Staffs trotting down the road with their owners and no leads! No way could the couple be in control coz they both had a can of larger in their hands and were completely smashed!!(at 8.30am!!)
TBH I also think people shouldnt leave dogs tied up outside shops as there is no way you can still say you are in control of that dog, NM the risk of injury or theft to it.


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## xxbailliexx (May 17, 2010)

Poor child, i hope this kid can recover and not hate dogs for life  I dont allow anyone to touch Baillie when we are out unless she knows the person, even then she has to be calm and sitting down first.

My kids have always been told not to run if theres a strange dog incase it chases them but to keep their back to the dog if it approaches. This came in handy when myself and husband took our daughters to the park and the other staffy in the street ran at my 7 year old a few months ago. She done as she was told by turning away and saying mummy as the dog was jumping and snapping at her, as we walked (quickly) over i kept saying turn away and keep your voice low as this dog was adamant to get to her face, just as we got there it decided to grab her hair at the back of her head and pulled her to the ground kind of using her as a tug toy (not actually biting athough it had scratched her scalp) the owner, 49 year old woman kept saying "awe shes ony playing " WTF!!! now as much as myself and husband are staffy lovers, he kicked the dog, it wouldnt let go of my daughters hair and was shaking her head her from side to side, like a rope toy. when the dog finally let go i lifted my daughter up and this dog was STILL trying to get her, jumping and snapping at me also.

I was frightened my wee girl would be terrified of Baillie after that but as soon as we brought her home she went over to Baillie herself and gave her a cuddle and Baillie gave her kisses and didnt move from her side the rest of the day, even bath time she sat at the side of the bath just keeping an eye on her  

sorry for the essay lol but 2 different dogs, same breed.....our dog is loved and has boundries and rules she has to follow...the other dog, suppose shes loved to a degree, no rules or boundries but this lady will never learn, shes just been reported again and moans she doesnt know what everyones problem is!!! sorry again for the long post, just gets on my nerves that this great breed is being ruined by numpties :mad2:


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Where was the mother? my eldest doesnt wear reins he is glued to the pram..why? because if he even thinks of running off i will shout at him and embarass him ..he knows he has to be near me so i can keep him safe! and they know not to touch strange dogs.
The owner of the dog should be fined also.


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## Rottsmum (Aug 26, 2011)

Well, feelings are obviously running understandably high on this thread, child hurt because an out of control dog has bitten them.

As the mother of two children who have been raised around dogs and the owner of one large and one giant dog I think that the only person that was at fault here was the dogs owner.

Kids will be kids and you cannot blame a toddler for approaching the dog in this instance. Toddlers don't possess the powers of rational thought or the ability to judge danger, they are babies. You can't blame the toddlers parents for this, kids can dart off in a heartbeat and you don't know that the parents hadn't taught the child not to approach unknown dogs so please don't judge. All the teaching in the world can go to pot in an instant when kids are that young. :mad2:

As for the mother kicking the dog, if that had been my child (or one of my dogs) your damn right I would have kicked it off. I have kicked many dogs off my Dane and now always wear long boots when out because of the amount of times he has been attacked by the yappy out of control snappers who frequent our local parks. 

The fact that this happened outside a booze shop is neither here nor there, I don't know many tee-totallers and i'm sure that you don't either.

You can't blame the dog, who may have been surprised, frightened, unsocialised, injured or any one of a number of reasons why it bit. 

You can and should however blame the owner of said dog who was letting it roam the streets and I would go so far as to say ANY owner who leaves their dog outside a shop, whether it's on lead or not, tied up or not, whilst they go in to buy something. I would NEVER leave either of mine unattended outside a shop or any other public place because of what could happen.

There is dog near us that is a lab/GSD cross by the look of it and it's owner frequently leaves it outside the local shop when he goes in to buy a paper. The dog, growls and lunges and tries to bite anyone who passes it and it's only the fact that it's tied that has stopped a really bad incident happening so far. Is the owner a chav? No, he's an educated, middle aged man who really should know better. 

It's a real shame that the dog in question was a staff because God know's they don't need anymore bad press and it's true that they seem to be the "chav's" breed of choice but we don't know that this was the case here. 

This was a tragic accident and I hope that the little one heals well and is left with no long lasting mental scars.


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## JenJen22 (Sep 29, 2011)

I agree it was a terrible accident and how scared must the child have been.

Yes children wander off and thats what they do - but dogs are dogs and they will get scared/anxious and snap they are still animals and its in their instinct.

Its the people that make dogs they way they are and i believe that applies to all breeds.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

This breed gets enough bad press without their owners leaving them alone outside in the street for anyone to touch them. Have to say the owner of the dog is totally at fault here.

I've got a GSD and am extremely careful when out with her. If she is off lead I always put her back onlead if there are small children approaching. Its only takes a few seconds of control to make everyone feel safe and to save any misunderstandings. Not fair to the dog to have put it in that situation.


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## staffygurl (Aug 29, 2011)

raggie doll said:


> This is ridiculous no dog is born bad, normally this is because chavs train them to be fighter dogs, so why should the majority of pet owners suffer.... this country makes me sick!


Ok I found this comment a little offensive because here we are talking about not tarring all staffs and their owners with the same brush and you're saying its the "chavs" who train them to be bad....actually my partner is somewhat a little on the "chavvy" side and we have a 9 month old staffy female and she is CERTAINLY not encourged to be nasty..she has a best friend 16 week old pup and she will let her jump on her back and pull on ears she is in no way encourged to snap at the other she is gentle and kind, so please although i agree with the statement that its the minority of people ruining it for responsible dog owners please do not the use label chav because then you are generalising!!

I agree with others, where was the owner of the dog? Also like someone else said we forget that yes dogs have become domesticated but they are still animals and can have many reasons for reacting, if this dog has been on the streets for sometime it could be scared and weary of humans, who to say it hasn't just escaped from an owner that treat it badly and panicked thinking the child was going to hurt it, regardless of breed any dog (regardless of breed) would be scared if thats the case!


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Where was the mother? my eldest doesnt wear reins he is glued to the pram..why? because if he even thinks of running off i will shout at him and embarass him ..he knows he has to be near me so i can keep him safe! and they know not to touch strange dogs.
> The owner of the dog should be fined also.


my mum was the same with me you would not have DARED and luckily we never got run over or hurt by an animal, so why are the parents not fined..... apparently in this country we must not dare tell people how to watch their kids, but clearly there are some that need it!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

I am sad to hear that there are still some people, even on a doggie forum, that say "what do you expect from a staffie. Of course, they'll do damage"etc. If people on dog forums think that, then I dread to think what Joe Public makes of this.

And you bet, I would have kicked that dog (hard), if that had been either of my kids.


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

staffygurl said:


> Ok I found this comment a little offensive because here we are talking about not tarring all staffs and their owners with the same brush and you're saying its the "chavs" who train them to be bad....actually my partner is somewhat a little on the "chavvy" side and we have a 9 month old staffy female and she is CERTAINLY not encourged to be nasty..she has a best friend 16 week old pup and she will let her jump on her back and pull on ears she is in no way encourged to snap at the other she is gentle and kind, so please although i agree with the statement that its the minority of people ruining it for responsible dog owners please do not the use label chav because then you are generalising!!
> 
> I agree with others, where was the owner of the dog? Also like someone else said we forget that yes dogs have become domesticated but they are still animals and can have many reasons for reacting, if this dog has been on the streets for sometime it could be scared and weary of humans, who to say it hasn't just escaped from an owner that treat it badly and panicked thinking the child was going to hurt it, regardless of breed any dog (regardless of breed) would be scared if thats the case!


well yes sorry what i should have said was disgusting people who train dogs to fight and be aggressive! As a dog learns to behave a certain way.


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

raggie doll said:


> my mum was the same with me you would not have DARED and luckily we never got run over or hurt by an animal, so why are the parents not fined..... apparently in this country we must not dare tell people how to watch their kids, but clearly there are some that need it!


Fined for what? As far as I'm aware there's no law about being near an off lead dog. It may be unwise to let your child approach any dog, but none of us knows the exact chain of events here.

Neither do we know why the dog was offlead and had no collar, it may have escaped and got spooked or it might have just been left outside, we just don't know.


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

Polimba said:


> Fined for what? As far as I'm aware there's no law about being near an off lead dog. It may be unwise to let your child approach any dog, but none of us knows the exact chain of events here.
> 
> Neither do we know why the dog was offlead and had no collar, it may have escaped and got spooked or it might have just been left outside, we just don't know.


well i probably put that wrong but my point is that the dogs owner (if there was even one) should be to blame but also shouldn't the parents of children that run off and go up to strange dogs have to control them, where i live kids run round all the time pushing and poking cats and dogs their parents are nowhere to be seen, doesn't seem right that the dog should bare all the blame.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Snoringbear said:


> No it doesn't. Other options are available under the law, biting someone is not automatic destruction.
> 
> Dangerous Dogs Act 1991


You kidding? have you seen what's going on with Lennox and you think it wouldn't mean automatic destruction, especially with the bias behind the Staffy breed. I believe it is also up to the person who has been injured as to whether they would want it destroyed too. If this dog is found I have no doubt it will be destroyed as not only did it bite but it bit a child and I don't think any one would stand a chance defending against that.

Lennox hasn't even done anything wrong, except look a certain way and despite over 100,000 signatures he's still been ordered to be put down.  They do what they want with this law, it's all according to who decides the dogs fate in the end and whether they're having a bad day or not so it seems!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

stigDarley said:


> try sydney olympic.... after i threatened him with defamation on my Dog and me and trolling he suddenly changed his tune pleb! Still here hoping he makes it to the shop and has a nasty accident  he tripped i tried to catch him him my fist n somehow impaled it on the side of his head oooppps oh well :thumbup:


With this attitude plus a status dog is it any wonder you get grief. You sound a stereotype of the worse sort of status dog owner.



bearcub said:


> I know this child shouldn't have been allowed to approach the dog
> 
> but if a loose dog attacked my child or my dog I would do anything in my power to stop it. No it's not the dog's 'fault' but this can't be allowed to happen again.


Exactly



raggie doll said:


> what gets me is i know the child was hurt but but but!!!...... the woman seems to be cheered on for kicking the dog wasn't there another way!


oh goodness why didnt she go to the nearest shop and get some juicy titbits for the dog to lure it off the kid. How dreadful of her. For heavens sake try living in the real world with human beings!:mad2:


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

*raggie doll - quote[*what gets me is i know the child was hurt but but but!!!...... the woman seems to be cheered on for kicking the dog wasn't there another way!*]*

I expect you are not a mum then raggie doll, cos if you were you would realise how bloody stupid some of your posts are!

I happen to adore my dogs and not so much children since mine are all grown up now but *never ever* can you put precedence of a dog over a child! Statements like you are making are what make people that hate dogs hate them even more and that is not good! 

Agree with Blitz's post 100%.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

How awful for all involved - yes the dog shouldn't have been loose, yes the child shouldn't have touched the dog and yes the parent should have told the child not to touch strange dogs - but it's happened now. 

The mother must not be slated for kicking the dog - if a dog had bitten my children when they were little I would have used ANY means possible to get the dog off my child - and I'm a huge dog lover. Instincts just kick in and you do what you need to. Likewise if another dog was attacking mine, I will openly admit that I'd have no quarms about kicking it to get it off my dog.

And I don't believe ANY parent or other dog owner could genuinely say they wouldnt do the same if their child or dog was being bitten.


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

Malmum said:


> You kidding? have you seen what's going on with Lennox and you think it wouldn't mean automatic destruction, especially with the bias behind the Staffy breed. I believe it is also up to the person who has been injured as to whether they would want it destroyed too. If this dog is found I have no doubt it will be destroyed as not only did it bite but it bit a child and I don't think any one would stand a chance defending against that.
> 
> Lennox hasn't even done anything wrong, except look a certain way and despite over 100,000 signatures he's still been ordered to be put down.  They do what they want with this law, it's all according to who decides the dogs fate in the end and whether they're having a bad day or not so it seems!


I agree! The rspca are calling for law reform under this so that they don't have such a wide reach. This law was brought about due to public fear and i agree that when a dog hurts a child everyone gets out for blood. The killing of the dog is unnecessary but it comes from an old view of put it down, so why don't we put down the dangerous humans. This country has a horrible view of animals being less than and not sentient so they are disposable. another reason why i don't value humanity!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

terencesmum said:


> I am sad to hear that there are still some people, even on a doggie forum, that say "what do you expect from a staffie. Of course, they'll do damage"etc. If people on dog forums think that, then I dread to think what Joe Public makes of this.
> 
> And you bet, I would have kicked that dog (hard), if that had been either of my kids.


Totally agree....as i said before ..where was the mother? Any good parent would have hold of the toddlers hand or made sure if they had a child in a buggy that the toddler had hold of the buggy! Once again its down to human error both the dog owner and the mother are at fault! 
I honestly think that these people who have dogs attack their kids have some sort of investigation and if it comes to light the clild was left alone then the parents presecuted for neglect! When are people going to realise dogs should not be left with children?


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Please dont slate the breed. We're not all chives either. I am a staffie x owner and I'm a professional person and a responsible dog owner.

What's happened has happened. We dont know the full circumstances. the dog shouldnt have been loose, the child shouldnt have gone up to the dog but no matter what anyone says it wont change what has happened. Other breeds of dogs do bite too.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Jugsmalone said:


> Please dont slate the breed. We're not all chives either. I am a staffie x owner and I'm a professional person and a responsible dog owner.
> 
> What's happened has happened. We dont know the full circumstances. the dog shouldnt have been loose, the child shouldnt have gone up to the dog but no matter what anyone says it wont change what has happened. Other breeds of dogs do bite too.


Sorry but that made me giggle :thumbup:


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

harley bear said:


> Sorry bit that made me giggle :thumbup:


Lol, HB you silly a*se! :lol::lol::lol:


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Lol, HB you silly a*se! :lol::lol::lol:


why am i a silly @rse? has the term chav been changed to chive and i havent been told


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Jugsmalone said:


> Please dont slate the breed. We're not all chives either. I am a staffie x owner and I'm a professional person and a responsible dog owner.
> 
> What's happened has happened. We dont know the full circumstances. the dog shouldnt have been loose, the child shouldnt have gone up to the dog but no matter what anyone says it wont change what has happened. Other breeds of dogs do bite too.


Ok but unfortunately its the CHAV's that have spoilt it for responsible owners like yourself. The same with my dogs breed, being a gsd, it doesnt take a fool to know they are strong powerful dogs. They are used for guarding. They've got a reputation for guarding so when you own a breed with a reputation you do everything in your power to make that dog be a credit to its breed.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

harley bear said:


> why am i a silly @rse? has the term chav been changed to chive and i havent been told


Chive sounds less agressive somehow, do they prowl they streets dressed in Green, ready to make your eyes water


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Sorry bit that made me giggle :thumbup:


We're not all onions! whats wrong with that!! lol lol !!! LMAO! that will teach me, not reading my post before posting!


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Malmum said:


> You kidding? have you seen what's going on with Lennox and you think it wouldn't mean automatic destruction, especially with the bias behind the Staffy breed. I believe it is also up to the person who has been injured as to whether they would want it destroyed too. If this dog is found I have no doubt it will be destroyed as not only did it bite but it bit a child and I don't think any one would stand a chance defending against that.
> 
> Lennox hasn't even done anything wrong, except look a certain way and despite over 100,000 signatures he's still been ordered to be put down.  They do what they want with this law, it's all according to who decides the dogs fate in the end and whether they're having a bad day or not so it seems!


No. I'm not. I'm assuming you haven't read the link either, otherwise you wouldn't be asking me that.

Options available for a judge when a dog has bitten someone are muzzle and lead when in public, neutering, destruction, disqualification of ownership, fine and custodial sentence. It's down to the judge what happens and will depend upon circumstances and the defendents ability to prove that they can safely keep the dog form doing this in future. The person who has been injured has no say in whether the dog will be put down. All they can do is lodge the complaint and hope that the judge does that.

This dog was spared by the judge, although the owner still wanted him put down - Rottweiler spared destruction after attack (From South Wales Argus)

I am fully aware of Lennox, but that travesty is under Section 1 of the DDA as opposed to this one which is Section 3.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Jugsmalone said:


> We're not all onions! whats wrong with that!! lol lol !!! LMAO! that will teach me, not reading my post before posting!


Im terrible for spelling mistakes, i type that fast and never read what ive written lol

I have got an idea of thise chavs with long green hurbs for hair pmsl


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

harley bear said:


> why am i a silly @rse? has the term chav been changed to chive and i havent been told


Dunno! : Has the word owner been changed to onion and you are a responsible dog onion - who can tell?? I just don't know!!!


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Daneandrottiemum said:


> Kids will be kids and you cannot blame a toddler for approaching the dog in this instance. Toddlers don't possess the powers of rational thought or the ability to judge danger, they are babies. You can't blame the toddlers parents for this, *kids can dart off in a heartbeat* and you don't know that the parents hadn't taught the child not to approach unknown dogs so please don't judge. All the teaching in the world can go to pot in an instant when kids are that young. :mad2:
> 
> You can't blame the dog, who may have been surprised, frightened, unsocialised, injured or any one of a number of reasons why it bit.


Your right when you say you cant blame the dog. I agree that the child is not to blame either as it is too young to assess danger.

I also agree the owner of the dog is to blame as he/she left the dog unattended and offlead.

However what i will not agree with is that the child's parent is not to blame. A child that young should not be left to wander around on its own accord.

Like i stated earlier who would be blamed if we change the scenario and instead have a toddler that spots something across the street and runs into the road and gets knocked over by a car?

It is the responsibility of parents to keep an eye on their children by either keeping hold of them of carrying them and it is the responsibility of dog owners to keep their dogs on lead in public.

The parent here imo is just as bad as the dog owner.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Snoringbear said:


> No. I'm not. I'm assuming you haven't read the link either, otherwise you wouldn't be asking me that.
> 
> Options available for a judge when a dog has bitten someone are muzzle and lead when in public, neutering, destruction, disqualification of ownership, fine and custodial sentence. It's down to the judge what happens and will depend upon circumstances and the defendents ability to prove that they can safely keep the dog form doing this in future. The person who has been injured has no say in whether the dog will be put down. All they can do is lodge the complaint and hope that the judge does that.
> 
> ...


Having read the entire thread on saving Lennox I am well aware there is another option but as I have said I doubt very much that would apply to this dog. If that option was always a choice there would not be countless dogs destroyed every day in the UK and Lennox too could be saved. It was an option available to Lennox's owners.

The judge has the final say every time!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Dunno! : Has the word owner been changed to onion and you are a responsible dog onion - who can tell?? I just don't know!!!


There are just so many layers to this thread


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

The classic chive, more commonly seen of late on street corners with their status dogs


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Sorry back to topic


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Lavenderb said:


> The classic chive, more commonly seen of late on street corners with their status dogs


Do they walk with a bop?


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Malmum said:


> Having read the entire thread on saving Lennox I am well aware there is another option but as I have said I doubt very much that would apply to this dog. If that option was always a choice there would not be countless dogs destroyed every day in the UK and Lennox too could be saved. It was an option available to Lennox's owners.
> 
> The judge has the final say every time!


I'm confused as to what option was available to Lennox's owners? The only options they would have had would hae been agreeing he was type resulting in destruction or challenging the decision as they have done.


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

Blitz said:


> With this attitude plus a status dog is it any wonder you get grief. You sound a stereotype of the worse sort of status dog owner.
> 
> Exactly
> 
> oh goodness why didnt she go to the nearest shop and get some juicy titbits for the dog to lure it off the kid. How dreadful of her. For heavens sake try living in the real world with human beings!:mad2:


Neither of my dogs are "status" dogs. I bite harder then my dogs... when someone tried breaking in i shut my babies away and chased the pleb down my self (i am only 5ft 2 so im sure it looked hilariouse) the comment of slipping and landing on my fist was a "vent" i was being sarcastic... but when someone starts "trolling" like yourself makeing offensive comment about me and my dogs... which they and you don't know it really hacks me off! I have worked VERY hard with my Akita becaus she was abused by plebs and very easily could of gone to the dark side...

I worked hard and turned her into a good dog.. and since when do staus dogs sleep in your bed and steal your pillows or hog the bed  if you read most of my comments YOU would KNOW rather then assume my dogs are definatly not status dogs. I make no apologie for likeing big breeds.

The type of dogs I have are very family orientated, I love the way my dobe is only interested in me and our family and doesn't care if a stranger wants to fuss him he's not intrested. His facial expresstion reguarly have me in stitches.

So blitz wind you neck in


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> Sorry back to topic


lol at least it lightened the mood lol


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

Not read the whole trhread, but there are faults on both sides her, the owner should have had the dog leashed up, and the silly parent should have not allowed her toddler too go up too a dog they do not know.
Once again not the whole story has been told, autmaticlly blames the stafford im sure they wouldnt know one if it jumped up and bit its arse. and the whole story why the dg attacked the child, did the child hurt it etc.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> The classic chive, more commonly seen of late on street corners with their status dogs


Sorry guys but imo the spring onion is much better as it doesnt bop but it does have a nice spring in its step when it goes over to my cheese baguette


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

5rivers79 said:


> Sorry guys but imo the spring onion is much better as it doesnt bop but it does have a nice spring in its step when it goes over to my cheese baguette


Does it talk back to you lol


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Not read the whole trhread, but there are faults on both sides her, the owner should have had the dog leashed up, and the silly parent should have not allowed her toddler too go up too a dog they do not know.
> Once again not the whole story has been told, autmaticlly blames the stafford im sure they wouldnt know one if it jumped up and bit its arse. and the whole story why the dg attacked the child, did the child hurt it etc.


i agree its conjecture really unless we were there we have no idea. Many people seem to have a bad opinion of staffs but ike you say half the people don't know what a staff is! I have personally not met a aggressive staff.


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Not read the whole trhread, but there are faults on both sides her, the owner should have had the dog leashed up, and the silly parent should have not allowed her toddler too go up too a dog they do not know.
> Once again not the whole story has been told, autmaticlly blames the stafford im sure they wouldnt know one if it jumped up and bit its arse. and the whole story why the dg attacked the child, did the child hurt it etc.


your dogs are stunning! love the picture of them sharing there bed with your cat!!! :thumbup:


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

stigDarley said:


> your dogs are stunning! love the picture of them sharing there bed with your cat!!! :thumbup:


THank you


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

*Contingent Destruction Orders: The alternative to a destruction order would be a Contingent Destruction Order  the dog shall be destroyed unless the owner keeps it under proper control, the Court can attach conditions to such an order and may specify the measures to be taken to keep a dog under proper control.*

As this dog's owner hasn't as yet come forward, that we know of, this wouldn't apply but if they find the dog and the owner I still think it will be destroyed. Someone will know it and it's owner and will let the authorities know especially if they have children themselves. Most of us know who has what dog in our locality even if we don't talk to them.

At the end of the day children are allowed to walk the streets with parents and as irresponsible as it is to not be holding that child's hand or have it on reins there is no law broken. On the other hand most local authorities state dogs should be on leads in public, as does the DDA with "dangerously out of control in a public place" if the dog had at least been tied up and had a collar maybe it's owner would have some kind of case but without a collar and ID tag it is also in breach of the law and it would seem the owner doesn't care enough to have the dog ID'd when out!

The only case the owner would have is if the dog escaped the house but even then I'd be surprised if it would wash with the authorities. The DDA was brought about because of attacks on people, mainly children, so like I said I cannot seem leniency being given to this or any dog who has attacked a child under whatever circumstances, purely because it could do it again to another innocent child. I would imagine that's the way the law would see it, no different to if it were one of mine.


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

Malmum said:


> *Contingent Destruction Orders: The alternative to a destruction order would be a Contingent Destruction Order  the dog shall be destroyed unless the owner keeps it under proper control, the Court can attach conditions to such an order and may specify the measures to be taken to keep a dog under proper control.*
> 
> As this dog's owner hasn't as yet come forward, that we know of, this wouldn't apply but if they find the dog and the owner I still think it will be destroyed. Someone will know it and it's owner and will let the authorities know especially if they have children themselves. Most of us know who has what dog in our locality even if we don't talk to them.
> 
> ...


I think another worry here is that the dog has no owner and will be wandering the streets...


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Well I doubt the owner will come forward to support the dog  and as it was waiting outside a shop the owner was very likely in there.

I said in an earlier post about Staffies being off lead a lot round here and they are. Yes they are well behaved and having Staffs myself they will walk by your side cos they're excellent dogs and very loyal to their owners too but I always had mine on leads mainly because they are animals and could dash in the road no matter how good they usually were.
I absolutely hate seeing off lead dogs in the street, not because of those dogs but because of mine. I don't go to parks with the male Mals as they're not dog friendly so they are street walked or walked along farmers fields and always on leads, so to see a dog off lead who may cross the road to see mine makes me wanna spit TBH, it's not legal and it's not fair on those of us who do keep our dogs on leads and completely under control.

I know Staffs are good dogs but why some owners have to prove a point by having them trot along in front of them is beyond me, sometimes they are way ahead of the owners. Just like any other dog they should be on lead when in the street regardless of how good they are.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

If the dog's owner doesn't come forward or identified the DDA can't be used as there will be no-one to convict.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

Someone said that by putting the dog too sleep would make an example and make people be responsible owners, if you believe that your living on another planet, they do not care about the dog, if too leave it with no lead or collar ouside a shop dosnt prove that what will. 

This is just another case of teh wrong end of the lead being victimised, a dog is onyl as good as the owner simple, if u let it do what the heck it likes its going too it dosnt have any rules bountries etc. 

As i said befre they think, THINK being the correct word that it was a staffy so could be any dog. But saying its a staffy and getting on the band wagon of destroying all these dogs and carrying n the hate campaigne is a much better way, of course its the dogs fault, yet we bring them into our homes into our lives and its there fault how they turn out yeah alright then. A load of crap the dogs always suffer n always will. 

Rant over.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dorrit said:


> Children can slip away very quickly..I used to have my son on reins all the time, he was a houdini and could get away while I zipped my handbag..
> 
> So Ok the parents should have been keeping a better hold of the child but what was the dog doing running about with no collar or lead and without an owner?
> 
> Ultimatly the looser will be this dog (if caught) and all other staffies & owners who will get tarred with the same brush..


The mother was close enough to kick the dog to release her kid, I see.



raggie doll said:


> This is ridiculous no dog is born bad, normally this is because chavs train them to be fighter dogs, so why should the majority of pet owners suffer.... this country makes me sick!


I wouldn't say that. A strange child goes up to a strange dog, maybe frightens it, it is going to retaliate. Personally if it was without collar or lead, I would hazard a guess that it belonged to a hostel dweller and had never had contact with children.

Certainly the dog owner's fault, the child owner's fault as well, but not the dog's.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Well I doubt the owner will come forward to support the dog  and as it was waiting outside a shop the owner was very likely in there.
> 
> I said in an earlier post about Staffies being off lead a lot round here and they are. Yes they are well behaved and having Staffs myself they will walk by your side cos they're excellent dogs and very loyal to their owners too but I always had mine on leads mainly because they are animals and could dash in the road no matter how good they usually were.
> I absolutely hate seeing off lead dogs in the street, not because of those dogs but because of mine. I don't go to parks with the male Mals as they're not dog friendly so they are street walked or walked along farmers fields and always on leads, so to see a dog off lead who may cross the road to see mine makes me wanna spit TBH, it's not legal and it's not fair on those of us who do keep our dogs on leads and completely under control.
> ...


My oh can and does walk hooch offlead beside him, because he would not put a paw out of place he worships my oh and would never do anything out of place, i on the other hand wouldnt walk them off lead because i dont feel i can. Just because people walk dogs offlead dosnt mean they are trying too prove a point, my oh certainly isnt.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

stigDarley said:


> Neither of my dogs are "status" dogs. I bite harder then my dogs... when someone tried breaking in i shut my babies away and chased the pleb down my self (i am only 5ft 2 so im sure it looked hilariouse) the comment of slipping and landing on my fist was a "vent" i was being sarcastic... but when someone starts "trolling" like yourself makeing offensive comment about me and my dogs... which they and you don't know it really hacks me off! I have worked VERY hard with my Akita becaus she was abused by plebs and very easily could of gone to the dark side...
> 
> I worked hard and turned her into a good dog.. and since when do staus dogs sleep in your bed and steal your pillows or hog the bed  if you read most of my comments YOU would KNOW rather then assume my dogs are definatly not status dogs. I make no apologie for likeing big breeds.
> 
> ...


Please do not be rude. If you dont wish to be judged then watch what you type. I find most of what you have put on the whole of this thread very offensive so if you wish to be judged as a nicer person then post in a different vein.


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Well I doubt the owner will come forward to support the dog  and as it was waiting outside a shop the owner was very likely in there.
> 
> I said in an earlier post about Staffies being off lead a lot round here and they are. Yes they are well behaved and having Staffs myself they will walk by your side cos they're excellent dogs and very loyal to their owners too but I always had mine on leads mainly because they are animals and could dash in the road no matter how good they usually were.
> I absolutely hate seeing off lead dogs in the street, not because of those dogs but because of mine. I don't go to parks with the male Mals as they're not dog friendly so they are street walked or walked along farmers fields and always on leads, so to see a dog off lead who may cross the road to see mine makes me wanna spit TBH, it's not legal and it's not fair on those of us who do keep our dogs on leads and completely under control.
> ...


i agree with you there i think when generally walking the dog he/she doesn't need to be off the lead, however in a park i feel you should be able to let them have a run and play.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

stigDarley said:


> nothing quiet liek bear love... I rescued my Akita and have been to hell and back with that dog and cross fingers Holly is turning into a lovely bear... after alot of blood sweat and heart ache..... including my sitting in the middle of a muddy swamp booing my eyes out after 45 mins of trying to get her back on the lead including some missed rugby tackes!!! then the bugger came and sat next to me and looked at me like a fool! bet it looke hilariouse!


You will know to sit down straight away next time! I used to find that if Ferdie didn't come back, sitting down always did the trick.



raggie doll said:


> that person commenting named river should be shot i hate this attitude that only humans should be protected why bother to have any animal life why nnot just wipe them all out! Idiots the gene pool is seriously lacing in intelligent caring people


Has a post been removed? What did he say that I missed?



bearcub said:


> I know this child shouldn't have been allowed to approach the dog
> 
> but if a loose dog attacked my child or my dog I would do anything in my power to stop it. No it's not the dog's 'fault' but this can't be allowed to happen again.


I kicked a staffie once who had sunk his teeth into Ferdie's leg. It didn't hurt him, but did frighten him into running back to his useless owners who were 100 yards away ineffectually calling him.



stigDarley said:


> Thinkg is as a parent you have to be responsible for your child as dog owners have to be responsible for their dogs.... i really do wonder why the child was allowed near the dog in the first place when it claerly had no collar and owner with it?


Should not have been allowed near a strange dog, collar or no collar.



bearcub said:


> but these accidents can happen, even with a parent with eyes in the back of their head, children don't always do as they're told
> 
> all I'm saying is, in these circumstances, rare as they are we have to protect children from these things happening
> 
> you can't use the argument the child shouldn't have done it unfortunately


I don't think anyone is blaming the child. He knew no better; that is what adults are for.



raggie doll said:


> what gets me is i know the child was hurt but but but!!!...... the woman seems to be cheered on for kicking the dog wasn't there another way!


Probably not. If a dog sunk his teeth into my child, I might kick it, but if she was close enough to do that, why wasn't she holding his hand or have him on one of those handcuff things they use nowadays.



stigDarley said:


> this is what i think. Then it's another "killer staffy" so teh poor staffie owners will all recieve flack for this!!! :mad2::mad2:


I wonder if they would have reported it had it not been a staffie. I read that the highest incidence of dog bites are with dachsunds, but you never seen one of those reported.



axl said:


> exactly as much as i know my dogs and trust them implicitly, i dont allow people to touch the dog unless they have been speaking to me for a while first, so the dogs are not as "hyper" in the home its different... but i agree i dont allow people to stroke my boys unless i say its ok.


I was walking Ferdie on the heath once, off lead, and some idiot had left a bag full of chicken leavings on the ground. He was munching away at them before I got to him and these two kids, about 10, came running over and threw their arms round him! I had no idea how he would react when he was eating and my heart was in my mouth.

As it happens he ignored them and carried on munching. Who's fault? The idiot who left the leavings there in the first place, the children's parents for not teaching them not to go up to strange dogs, especially when they are eating, or my fault for having my dog off lead in an off lead area?


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> The mother was close enough to kick the dog to release her kid, I see.
> 
> I wouldn't say that. A strange child goes up to a strange dog, maybe frightens it, it is going to retaliate. Personally if it was without collar or lead, I would hazard a guess that it belonged to a hostel dweller and had never had contact with children.
> 
> Certainly the dog owner's fault, the child owner's fault as well, but not the dog's.


well yes your right! It's so difficult to say what happened but there are many dogs that don't react well to children.


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

Blitz said:


> Please do not be rude. If you dont wish to be judged then watch what you type. I find most of what you have put on the whole of this thread very offensive so if you wish to be judged as a nicer person then post in a different vein.


Blitz: re read my posts other then a couple of vents against the guy who had been trolling me.. can't see were the problem is? I feel that staffie owners all over will get flack and it does the breed rep no favours. I also suffer this owning an Akita. Unless you own a bear you have no idea how stupid joe public can be. I think they are a breed that need a certain type of owner and aren't suitable for everyone? :mad2::mad2:

Rude check out what you said... what you don't like is that I called you on it.
Sorry if i'm a bit sick of keyboard warriers or the new name of "trolls"


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> You will know to sit down straight away next time! I used to find that if Ferdie didn't come back, sitting down always did the trick.
> 
> Has a post been removed? What did he say that I missed?
> 
> ...


the post river made was on the papers site which stigdarley asked us to comment on cause there were some very anti-dogs comments, but not on this site. Don't worry you haven't gone mad lol


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Don't know what *fiverivers* is supposed to have said but he hasn't said anything against the dog as far as I can see and is a very responsible dog owner himself who dotes on Sammy, so why he should be shot is beyond me. A bit of an over reaction I think! 

*xshelly_stanliex**Quote[*My oh can and does walk hooch offlead beside him, because he would not put a paw out of place he worships my oh and would never do anything out of place, i on the other hand wouldnt walk them off lead because i dont feel i can. Just because people walk dogs offlead dosnt mean they are trying too prove a point, my oh certainly isnt.*]*

The point I am making is it is illegal to street walk any dog off lead or at least in many boroughs this being one, we also are not allowed to walk more than three at a time in Southend. Anyway, where's the need? that's what we all buy leads for isn't it?

Parks and wooded area's fair enough but some people feel intimidated by dogs, particularly children so why walk them off lead at all in public?


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

Very well said! @ newfiesmum

we had this Holly was on the lead and some lil kid jumped on her both hubby n me were like OMG she wagged her tail stood still!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Don't know what *fiverivers* is supposed to have said but he hasn't said anything against the dog as far as I can see and is a very responsible dog owner himself who dotes on Sammy, so why he should be shot is beyond me. A bit of an over reaction I think!
> 
> *xshelly_stanliex**Quote[*My oh can and does walk hooch offlead beside him, because he would not put a paw out of place he worships my oh and would never do anything out of place, i on the other hand wouldnt walk them off lead because i dont feel i can. Just because people walk dogs offlead dosnt mean they are trying too prove a point, my oh certainly isnt.*]*
> 
> ...


Apparently not talking about our 5Rivers! Glad I am not the only one who was confused.


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

ok let me clarify it was not 5rivers it was a commenter on the website called rivers, i am in no way saying 5rivers said anything, sorry i should have been more clear.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok, I have just read the comments on that website and I don't think I have ever read such ignorance in my life. One saying it is a "scumbag breed" another saying it ought to be pts. And the prize goes to the idiot who said "humans first, humans second, dogs last". Why? Humans are without doubt the most vicious animals on the planet and having the ability to reason and to know right from wrong only makes that worse.

As I said before, two people to blame here: the dog owner, the child owner.

I am not a staffie fan; I am not afraid of them and I do not think they are a dangerous breed, but I will defend any dog's right to defend itself against being mauled about by some stranger, be it child or adult.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Don't know what *fiverivers* is supposed to have said but he hasn't said anything against the dog as far as I can see and is a very responsible dog owner himself who dotes on Sammy, so why he should be shot is beyond me. A bit of an over reaction I think!
> 
> *xshelly_stanliex**Quote[*My oh can and does walk hooch offlead beside him, because he would not put a paw out of place he worships my oh and would never do anything out of place, i on the other hand wouldnt walk them off lead because i dont feel i can. Just because people walk dogs offlead dosnt mean they are trying too prove a point, my oh certainly isnt.*]*
> 
> ...


He walks hooch off lead becaus ehooch pays no attention to other dogs or people at all, if he were too come accross someone he would get hooch too sit and wait the other side of him.


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> He walks hooch off lead becaus ehooch pays no attention to other dogs or people at all, if he were too come accross someone he would get hooch too sit and wait the other side of him.


i think this is another one that depends on the dog, if they are well behaved then i don't see the problem like you say here hooch will follow commands so he is not a danger


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

We would never let them off lead ever if they were, i can let stan offlead over fields etc but i wouldnt on a main road because i have not put that much trainning into him too make him able too do so.
My oh has put so much time in trainning into hooch too make him the well behaved dog he is.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I used to let Floyd sit at the front door all evening and knew even without me there he would never go out side but only now do I realise other people may not have liked walking their dog past as they didn't know what Floyd was like.








It's so scary now though with this DDA, someone I know had his Mal seized and put in kennels and all he did was jump up at a passer by while owner was picking up poo. Owner got scratched and made a complaint to the police - that's how easy it is to have your dog taken. 

Just read some of those comments and glad it wasn't our fiverivers  they are very ignorant with what they write and on the whole joe pub will want this dog destroyed - I do agree with the comment ; *dog bites child, internet defends dog * because that's exactly how I think the gen pub would see it, everyone defending the dog and not much sympathy for the child. We are all dog lovers in this house and although we can all see the owner should not have left the dog outside and the mother should not have put her child at risk we do all agree the dog should be destroyed. A bite on a child is one bite too many IMO, especially as it would seem the child only went up to stroke it.
Shame though because the four Staffs I've owned have been great around kids, in fact a thread on here recently asking for child friendly dogs made me immediately post a Staff, my four kids all grew up with Staffies.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Malmum said:


> I used to let Floyd sit at the front door all evening and knew even without me there he would never go out side but only now do I realise other people may not have liked walking their dog past as they didn't know what Floyd was like.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I don't agree that the dog should be pts. The child was not badly hurt, and yes I do have a lot of sympathy for the child and his injuries. He wasn't to know, was he? But a child of that age is just as likely to have gone up and pulled his ears; the mother obviously wasn't watching.

On a driving lesson once we drove around the corner and there was a child about two running along the middle of the road, which had parked cars on both sides so we could not have seen him as we turned in. Where was the mother? Walking along the pavement texting!

If people won't look after their children, and other people won't act responsibly with their dogs, this is the sort of thing that happens.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

We have had tons of children/toddlers approaching Harvey lately, and every time I'm shocked that the parents just let them walk (actually run) straight up to him. Harvey is petrified of children and I'm sure the parents must be able to see that I'm desperately trying to hold onto him so that he doesn't run off, and yet they still let the little ones run up to him. One of the little girls was only about 1 - 1.5 and although Harvey isn't aggressive at all, if he suddenly jumped up from a laying position, he could have sent her flying. I told them that I was worried he could hurt her and they just laughed. 

Of course, I say he's not aggressive but any dog in a threatening position will have the same reaction as any animal - fight or flight.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

LouiseH said:


> We have had tons of children/toddlers approaching Harvey lately, and every time I'm shocked that the parents just let them walk (actually run) straight up to him. Harvey is petrified of children and I'm sure the parents must be able to see that I'm desperately trying to hold onto him so that he doesn't run off, and yet they still let the little ones run up to him. One of the little girls was only about 1 - 1.5 and although Harvey isn't aggressive at all, if he suddenly jumped up from a laying position, he could have sent her flying. I told them that I was worried he could hurt her and they just laughed.
> 
> Of course, I say he's not aggressive but any dog in a threatening position will have the same reaction as any animal - fight or flight.


Those sort of people think that your dog is just there for their child to amuse itself. She would not have laughed had the dog actually knocked her over, would she? They make me angry, to be honest, but I have been lucky in that children that young have always had mothers who asked if their children to stroke my dogs.

It is the older children who just run up and decide to throw their arms around him that annoy me. I have had a lot of those ask, though, to be honest, so I can't complain.

Teenagers, now, they are a different matter. Last week we came around the corner and there was a crowd of them who first backed up at the size of him and then were all over fussing him. He was fine, but it was a bit intimidating for him having at least 8 total strangers fussing him at once.


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## Starfish (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't think anyone would disagree with the fact that whenever a person is injured by an animal, it's always a terrible situation, regardless of if they are a child, adult, elderly person etc. I suppose the main difference with it being a child is the fact that often, they don't know any better and they rely on their appropriate adult(s) to ensure their safety and wellbeing.

I'm sure there is a great divide on this opinion, but I fully agree with other posters who had said *the child should have been supervised correctly* because honestly, if they had been, perhaps this wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Yes I can understand that children are a full-time job to keep an eye on, but as a parent the child is your responsibility, 24/7, and for something to happen, a window of oppertunity has to be presented. As 5rivers mentioned (I think? Lost track from reading through the thread) what exactly would have been said if the child had run across the road and been hit by a car? Would the parent shoulder the national blame? Or would it be the driver for driving a car at the wrong place and wrong time? Where does the buck stop with responsibility? 
I'm sorry but the UK is swiftly becoming a nanny state, where everyone else is to blame when something goes wrong and where there are no rules and stipulations anymore. I'm thoroughly fatigued at the number of children who run at my dog, arms flailing and squealing because they think they are well within their right to fuss him, because their parent's have never told them 'no'. If one of these kids stamps on my dog's paw in their clumsy efforts to reach him, and cause him to snap at them or jump away and inadvertedly scratch them with a paw, what happens then? It may seem a little far fetched but with each of these instances, more and more mindless idiots all bleet and bahh their sheep-like opinions until they get their own way.. "Muzzle all dogs" "Ban all large breeds" etc etc..


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

This dog was running loose so why did it not move away from the child? It could easily have done so, as would many dogs if they could, but it chose to bite. Why? 
Lots of questions that cannot be answered unless actually witnessed personally. So everyone who says the child should have been supervised closer or the dog should have been under control, neither can be truly critisised. It needed to be witnessed first hand and I don't think anyone on this list has done so. Why do people start throwing the proverbial when they do not know the full facts. It is no more than mere speculation at the end of the day.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

raggie doll said:


> what gets me is i know the child was hurt but but but!!!...... the woman seems to be cheered on for kicking the dog wasn't there another way!


Are you serious?!
If a dog was biting your tiny child anyone would do the same!
& if you wouldn't you can't love your child enough.
Some dogs are evil, not all are, but anyone would protect their child against a vicious biting dog! & if one bit me I would kick it as well.
Yes I have a dog, but she is also trained and wouldn't hurt anyone, some dogs need to be taught lessons, and in some cases be put down because they can't roam the streets alone biting people!
Be serious guys, if this was your 2 year old child you'd be p*ssed!
I wouls want it finding & sorting out so that it didn't bite anymore small children, he could have killed it! We've seen stories of children getting bitten and their faces been ripped open etc. Just think about it, the owner is the problem here not the mother or the child, it's the owners job to tell people that there dog doesn't like people, and this person was no where to be seen, he should get into a lot of children if the dog isn't a stray.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I can see blame on both sides, but do feel this dog should be re homed to a suitable home or PTS


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> Are you serious?!
> If a dog was biting your tiny child anyone would do the same!
> & if you wouldn't you can't love your child enough.
> Some dogs are evil, not all are, but anyone would protect their child against a vicious biting dog! & if one bit me I would kick it as well.
> ...


Of course anyone would protect there kids i would have done the same as the women did if i had children or if a dog attacked my dogs.
No dog is born evil thou and is therefore the responsibility of the owner. I dont think this dg should be put down i think it should be rehabilitated if possible and pts as a last resort.
I do think the mother is partly responsible, she should not have let her kid go near a strange dog full stop.
I feel sorry for the kid and the dog not the mother or the dog owner if there is one.


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## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Of course anyone would protect there kids i would have done the same as the women did if i had children or if a dog attacked my dogs.
> No dog is born evil thou and is therefore the responsibility of the owner. I dont think this dg should be put down i think it should be rehabilitated if possible and pts as a last resort.
> I do think the mother is partly responsible, she should not have let her kid go near a strange dog full stop.
> I feel sorry for the kid and the dog not the mother or the dog owner if there is one.


agree with you there rehabilitation if possible..... sorry but when i see your pictures i just can't get over how cute your staffs are lol


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I have to say that I don't have children running up to my dogs at all but then I walk them after dark, early morn or when kids are in school so maybe that's why. I don't walk in parks or near schools so never really encounter kids, Flynn in particulr is scared of the noises they make so I keep him away from school area's.

Have to say though that as a dog lover I am surprised at the amount of negativity given to the child in all of this, some sound like child haters almost. Such a shame as aren't we all supposed to love both? I mean saying "the child wasn't badly hurt" is abominable. So does the child need to have it's throat ripped out before the dog can be PTS? The only reason it wasn't badly hurt is because the mother stopped it from being so. Some kids haven't been so lucky in dog attacks, why we have a DDA now. 

My dogs are my life but I do still remember what it's like to have small children and that at that time I would defend them to the death and a dog would not have survived if i'd had my way and one of mine were attacked. I'm not that far removed that I don't understand how a parent feels!


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

raggie doll said:


> agree with you there rehabilitation if possible..... sorry but when i see your pictures i just can't get over how cute your staffs are lol


Lol, thank you they are even cuter in real life


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

I think I would take a different line to most people here. I don't blame the Child because the child at 2 does not know what it is doing. 

I don't blame the parent, I' don't know if any of you are parents but its not an easy job and there are times when children do things before you know it, accidents do happen even to the best parent.

I don't blame the dog, a dog lost freighted in a strange situation, were it doesn't know how to react is may bite. That&#8217;s not necessarily the dogs fault.

I don't necessarily blame the dogs owner either. Things happen sometimes that you don&#8217;t expect. Dogs slip collars, they get out of gardens, the get spooked and run off. Does that mean that the owner is a bad owner? 

Yes the dogs owner is ultimately responsible for the actions of his dog. But sometimes life is more complex then the simple black and white answers. Sometimes despite our best efforts bad things happen.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

If a dog attacked my child i would do anything possible to get the thing off my child no matter what damage it caused the dog..my child is more important than ANY animal!
that being said while on our walk tonight we encountered a DA dog who has caused lots of damage to other dogs through its attacks it had to be pulled away snarling and spitting at vey..what did he do? nothing! if that dog had attacked vey i would have given it a bloody good kick and insisted the dog be pts...its caused that many dogs injury and nothing has been done in any way of training i do think the dog being pts would be best!


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## mama_abz (Apr 27, 2011)

i havent read the whole post as just dont have time right now (will read all later). 
But seriously when will the general public realise its not a specific dog breed or a specific owner type that is the problem. Any dog has the ability to turn no matter how good they usually are with children/small animals etc etc etc. 

why was the child able to approach a off lead un-collared dog??!!!! and people are surprised at the outcome!

Children need to be taught how to behave around animals and point one is never approach any dog strange or otherwise without permission from the owner and even then to allow dog to smell hand first then only give it a couple of strokes before leaving it alone! 

there are a few dogs that mums bring to the school gates at my daughters school to mention just 2 we have a beautiful husky (bitch) and a lovely brindle staffy (bitch) the husky owner is really good stands on opposite side of road and only allows one child at a time a short stroke. the staff pup owner is terrible she will be standing there paying no attention chatting to other mums meanwhile her dog is totally surrounded constantly by loud children all stroking her. I get moaned at daily by my daughter as i dont allow her to go over to the pup, but i feel that poor dog is already dealing with enough and when she finally has enough and wants to get free from all the kids and one gets hurt it will not be mine! 

I have a staffy x boxer who is great with kids but would never take him up the school as it is to much in my opinion there are alot of kids they are all noisy and kids being kids are drawn to animals. i would never put my dog in the position just incase as every dog has its limit.

i hope this child is ok and isnt put off dogs forever but i also hope the mother has also learnt not to allow her child to approach any dog he sees!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

harley bear said:


> If a dog attacked my child i would do anything possible to get the thing off my child no matter what damage it caused the dog..my child is more important than ANY animal!
> that being said while on our walk tonight we encountered a DA dog who has caused lots of damage to other dogs through its attacks it had to be pulled away snarling and spitting at vey..what did he do? nothing! if that dog had attacked vey i would have given it a bloody good kick and insisted the dog be pts...its caused that many dogs injury and nothing has been done in any way of training i do think the dog being pts would be best!


Totally agree no comparison between a child and any animal, no matter how much we love 'em! DA dogs too are a pain in the butt, as are the owners who somehow manage to let go of their leads!


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

I can't believe that some people are suggesting that a toddler should know better! He's probably not even been talking that long to understand all the things the poor kid needs to learn! The dog shouldn't have been out, end of story, the small child does not understand at such a young age!


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> I can't believe that some people are suggesting that a toddler should know better! He's probably not even been talking that long to understand all the things the poor kid needs to learn! The dog shouldn't have been out, end of story, the small child does not understand at such a young age!


The child deffinantly is not too blame but the mother has too take resposibility on her part.

As the dog is not too blame but the owner.

Dogs and children do not understand adults do and they should take responsibility.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> I can't believe that some people are suggesting that a toddler should know better! He's probably not even been talking that long to understand all the things the poor kid needs to learn! The dog shouldn't have been out, end of story, the small child does not understand at such a young age!


Whoever suggested that the toddler should know better? Nobody has thought for one moment that the child had any blame whatsoever in this scenario.

I have seen children this age and younger playing on the heath and have started to run toward my dogs. The mothers have been sensible enough to stop them and come and ask. If a child that age did get close enough, I would never blame the child.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Perhaps this child didn't break loose from it's parents and run up to the dog though.

Perhaps they walked past it and the child reached out a hand to the dog.
Perhaps the dog was stood in the doorway of the shop.
Perhaps the dog approached them?

You can't always put these things down to parents not teaching their child how to behave.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

Children need to be taught how to behave around animals and point one is never approach any dog strange or otherwise without permission from the owner and even then to allow dog to smell hand first then only give it a couple of strokes before leaving it alone! 

Well to me ^^^^^^ is blaming the child, which is a ridicuous statement to make, the kid is very young and will be taught as he is growing up and one day he will understand, but atm he just won't get it...


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

bearcub said:


> Perhaps this child didn't break loose from it's parents and run up to the dog though.
> 
> Perhaps they walked past it and the child reached out a hand to the dog.
> Perhaps the dog was stood in the doorway of the shop.
> ...


And we cant always presume that the dog attacked for no reason either, but people do.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> And we cant always presume that the dog attacked for no reason either, but people do.


Well people just don't see it like that. The dog's 'feelings' aren't important in the grand scheme of things, a child was attacked end of.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Some dogs are just plain scared of little kids, I know Flynn is and that's why he would never be out without me right next to him. 

Owners like this dogs one are what gives dogs a bad rep cos if it weren't for plebs like them the press would have nothing to report.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

LauraIzPops said:


> Children need to be taught how to behave around animals and point one is never approach any dog strange or otherwise without permission from the owner and even then to allow dog to smell hand first then only give it a couple of strokes before leaving it alone!
> .


I totally agree with this but one of the problems that we face is that the parents seem to make that decision on our behalf. Because our dog is a cute and cuddly dulux dog he obviously doesn't have the same ability as another big dog :mad2:


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

bearcub said:


> Well people just don't see it like that. The dog's 'feelings' aren't important in the grand scheme of things, a child was attacked end of.


Well people should not just presume, this is why dogs are getting victimised day in day out, because people presume that a dog attacked so it has too be viscious not that something triggered it off.

Ridiculous dogs do not attack for no reason and always give warning signals of which the mother would be able too see the toddle would not.

Yes a child got hurt of which is sad and i feel for the kid i do.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Not all dogs give warning signs - Akitas are well known for not doing so and any dog taken by surprise may not either, can happen in the blink of an eye.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Not all dogs give warning signs - Akitas are well known for not doing so and any dog taken by surprise may not either, can happen in the blink of an eye.


True some dogs are taken by suprise and act out of defence, as if someone suprised me i would problie turn round shocked and ready too defend myself.

All dogs give warning signs if not taken by suprise, thier body language is enough.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Bizkit doesn't give off warning signs when I leave him outside shops. He stands there looking like a big dumb friendly dog wagging his tail until the person's hand is a few inches from his nose and then he barks like crazy, lunges on the lead and tries to bite them. I always muzzle him when I leave him alone in a public place. 

The owner of the Staffy was 100% responsible for the attack in question. Only someone who has never experienced taking care of a small child thinks that you can make a toddler anything they don't want to. They have a mind of their own and they're not afraid to use it :lol:


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

LauraIzPops said:


> Are you serious?!
> 
> *Some dogs are evil*...


Are you serious?? LMFAO!

Badly trained yes, aggressive yes but evil?? Nah they are not the devil incarnate :lol:

As for the comment that rivers made..lol i got confused too and was looking for it thinkin omg what did i write..but woopii it wasnt me 

I think most of you know im a dog lover and would rather see this planet go old school and get rid of this vermin species called *****SAP*iens! :thumbup:


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

Yes well badly trained makes them horrible dogs to be around, and half of the time it's the same breeds of dogs that are vicious or attack, which is why they get the 'bad name' but technically it's not just down to training, yes mostly it is, but some dogs breeds are bred to be fighters/more vicous which means it can be in their genes, so if they are not trained properly as a young dog then yes they are very dangerous. Evil meaning they will attack people for not much reason, just someone touching it gently which is crazy IMO


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

While I understand and agree that children should be taught how to behave around dogs, and the mother has to take some responsibility, it is not her or the child's 'fault'.

A dog should not bite on being approached. The dog was off lead and had the opportunity to escape which would be the normal canine reaction. A staffy with a poor temperament - the fault lies with the owner and the breeder that bred the dog. Sorry, but there is no place for dogs like this in our society - or for owners that allow this to happen.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

LouiseH said:


> I totally agree with this but one of the problems that we face is that the parents seem to make that decision on our behalf. Because our dog is a cute and cuddly dulux dog he obviously doesn't have the same ability as another big dog :mad2:


Same here, but Dougie wouldn't bite even if startled thats just his nature (I still however put him on a lead when my toddler nephews visit). Now my previous dog if he were approached in that way he would have probably growled a warning, showed his teeth and then ultimately nipped if not left alone.

So really if you have a dog that would bite if stroked/approached by a child or anyone then its ultimately the owners responsibility to have taken steps for it not to happen. Random people, let alone children, do random things and we dog owners cannot really say well it was the persons fault for approaching the dog.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

LauraIzPops said:


> Yes well badly trained makes them horrible dogs to be around, and half of the time it's the same breeds of dogs that are vicious or attack, which is why they get the 'bad name' but technically it's not just down to training, yes mostly it is, but some dogs breeds are bred to be fighters/more vicous which means it can be in their genes, so if they are not trained properly as a young dog then yes they are very dangerous. Evil meaning they will attack people for not much reason, just someone touching it gently which is crazy IMO


Which breeds are bred to aggressive upon a gentle touch? Please clarify?


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> The dog was off lead and had the opportunity to escape which would be the normal canine reaction. A staffy with a poor temperament -


Why would a dog who's breed characteristic is of indomitable courage, bold and fearless run away and escape from a situation?


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> Yes well badly trained makes them horrible dogs to be around, and half of the time it's the same breeds of dogs that are vicious or attack, which is why they get the 'bad name' but technically it's not just down to training, yes mostly it is, but some dogs breeds are bred to be fighters/more vicous which means it can be in their genes, so if they are not trained properly as a young dog then yes they are very dangerous. Evil meaning they will attack people for not much reason, just someone touching it gently which is crazy IMO


If one of these breeds you are talking about is staffys which from the ot i presume it is, They are known as the nanny dog because they are great with children, they were breed too be none human aggressive yes they can be dog agressive but human agession was a big no no, as the "dogmen" had too be able too get there dogs out without getting attacked.

They get the bad name because of idiotic uneducated hard men wanna be owners that want them because they arnt big enough too fight there own battles and feel certain breeds make them look untouchable.

It is down too trainning, no dog is born aggressive, if you treat a dog badly regardless of its breed it will be a potentional ticking time bomb.

I know a few staffy owners, we have 2, my brother has 1, my oh's brother has 1 and 2 of my mates have 2 staffys are any of them human agressive NO why because they have been brought up correctly. 
Have i ever met a human agressive staffy no.

Oh and ouy neighbour has a staffy n a douge debouex are they agressive nope there absolute darlings.

Alot of these type of articles say staffy or "pit-bull" type to have a bigger impact. 
Why to attacks of smaller breeds not get published because they do not make a great story because the damage a smaller dog can do is little compared to the damage a stafford, german sheperd, rottie etc could do but it dont mean that these smaller breeds or any breed for that matter wont attack a human.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> If one of these breeds you are talking about is staffys which from the ot i presume it is, They are known as the nanny dog because they are great with children, they were breed too be none human aggressive yes they can be dog agressive but human agession was a big no no, as the "dogmen" had too be able too get there dogs out without getting attacked.
> 
> They get the bad name because of idiotic uneducated hard men wanna be owners that want them because they arnt big enough too fight there own battles and feel certain breeds make them look untouchable.
> 
> ...


Honestly there is no point trying to educate the ignorant. Anyone that says some dogs are evil..and there are breeds that will be aggressive to the gentlest of touches is imo ignorant.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

5rivers79 said:


> Honestly there is no point trying to educate the ignorant. Anyone that says some dogs are evil..and there are breeds that will be aggressive to the gentlest of touches is imo ignorant.


Very true, but all we can do is try and educate the uneducated. Hopefully some people will listen i know alot would rather believe crao they read and hear but have not experienced.

Ill still keep my head high when walking my 2 Viscious dogs


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Some statiscs for those who have no idea what they are talking about.

A few breed statistic scores from the American Temprement Test Society, who objectively test breeds for soundness of temprement. These percentages are the number of dogs which passed out of total tested.

Staffordshire Bull Terrier 89.7%

American Pit Bull Terrier 86.4%

Standard Poodle 86.3%

Golden Retriever 84.9%

American Staffordshire Terrier 84.2%

Pomeranian 75.8%

Lhasa Apso 70.4%

American Temperament Test Society, Inc. | A sound mind in a sound body


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I aven't read all the comments.. But read a few of the first posts.. Now come on people.. 

The dog should have not been out on the street.. whether outside the shop or not without.. Firstly a collar on and a lead.. Where was the owner!!!!

Secondly Kids do go up to strange dogs and young children can escape so quickly.. Its ok to say should keep a closer eye on ya kids.. You would think by some posts on here that some of you were never babies to toddlers to children in the first place.. You would think you just appeared adults.. Cause if you remember being a child a furry dog .. was something you wanted to say hello to..

Also the story doesn't give enough info for anyone to be taking sides..

From what I have read the dog should have been on a lead.. The childs parent should have been paying bit more attention.. Kids will be kids and they like to say hello to furry animals.. 

Blame is 50/50 on the dog owner and the parent of the child...


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

No dog is born aggressive but all have certain natural traits.

Malamutes are known to be dog aggressive by nature and many are very friendly towards other dogs by socialisation and training, however anyone on the Mal forum will tell you that even the best behaved Mal will not back down if picked on in a fight. It's part of their nature and has been since the breed originally evolved. Sure you can train them but when push comes to shove it's right there at there front.

Call it nature and nurture if you will.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

Malmum said:


> No dog is born aggressive but all have certain natural traits.
> 
> Malamutes are known to be dog aggressive by nature and many are very friendly towards other dogs by socialisation and training, however anyone on the Mal forum will tell you that even the best behaved Mal will not back down if picked on in a fight. It's part of their nature and has been since the breed originally evolved. Sure you can train them but when push comes to shove it's right there at there front.
> 
> Call it nature and nurture if you will.


So ferocious 

[youtube_browser]_s36EQI8zfE[/youtube_browser]


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

5rivers79 said:


> Why would a dog who's breed characteristic is of indomitable courage, bold and fearless run away and escape from a situation?


You're mistaking breed specific traits for canine behaviour. Breeds specific traits are secondary to natural canine behaviour which is not confrontational in the first instance.



> Which breeds are bred to aggressive upon a gentle touch? Please clarify?


Temperament is inherited. Both nature and nurture play a role.
All dogs are capable of showing aggression (just as we humans are), it would be unnatural for them not to be capable of it, however, the problem arises when their threshold and triggerpoint is low.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> You're mistaking breed specific traits for canine behaviour. Breeds specific traits are secondary to natural canine behaviour which is not confrontational in the first instance.


Staffordshire Bull Terrier Breed Standard - The Kennel Club
5rivers79 was spot on...


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> They get the bad name because of idiotic uneducated hard men wanna be owners that want them because they arnt big enough too fight there own battles and feel certain breeds make them look untouchable.


I agree with what you have said however, the problem lies not just with idiot owners, but idiot breeders, mainly of those breeds that are considered good fighting/guarding breeds. Because they want these traits they actually breed them into them - poor breeding (or what I would consider poor breeding from poor temperament these idiots see as a good thing).


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

rocco33 said:


> I agree with what you have said however, the problem lies not just with idiot owners, but idiot breeders, mainly of those breeds that are considered good fighting/guarding breeds. Because they want these traits they actually breed them into them - poor breeding (or what I would consider poor breeding from poor temperament these idiots see as a good thing).


True idiot breeders are a problem too, stanlie is not kc reg and the women i got him from i would class as a byb, but his temprement is the best i could wish for he has an amazing temprement and that is through him being socilised from 12 weeks of age with all breeds of dogs. Growing up living with other dogs, small animals and a cat.

I think nurture has a major part too play, he has never shown any agression too anyone or any other animal.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> True idiot breeders are a problem too, stanlie is not kc reg and the women i got him from i would class as a byb, but his temprement is the best i could wish for he has an amazing temprement and that is through him being socilised from 12 weeks of age with all breeds of dogs. Growing up living with other dogs, small animals and a cat.
> 
> I think nurture has a major part too play, he has never shown any agression too anyone or any other animal.


Nurture does play a part, I agree, my point was to those who think it is ONLY down to training. Yes, a well trained/socialised dog with a poor temperament can be fine because it's threshold has been raised by socialisation and training, equally a dog with a good temperament can be fine with little socialisation and training. The problem occurs when someone thinks that it is ONLY training that effects temperament.

Although I hate byb with a passion  I don't think it impossible to get a dog with an amazing temperament from a byb. The fact is that dogs are generally and regardless of breed, an easy going, friendly animal. That is why they have become such popular and useful companions/working dogs for man. The problem with byb is that it is by accident and the fact that dogs are generally good natured rather than with any deliberate thought put into temperament. But, any trait can be enhanced through selectively breeding for it. It's one of the complaints often levelled at show breeders - the dogs are bred to extremes, albeit on physical level. However, this can happen with temperament too. These idiots prize the aggressive nature in their dogs so will breed it in and sadly, those breeds that are popular with them because of their look/feistiness or even just ignorant assumptions are bred to produce dogs with temperaments that are not compatible with pet ownership or living in society.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> If one of these breeds you are talking about is staffys which from the ot i presume it is, They are known as the nanny dog because they are great with children, they were breed too be none human aggressive yes they can be dog agressive but human agession was a big no no, as the "dogmen" had too be able too get there dogs out without getting attacked.
> 
> They get the bad name because of idiotic uneducated hard men wanna be owners that want them because they arnt big enough too fight there own battles and feel certain breeds make them look untouchable.
> 
> ...


I didn't say that all staffies are bad... All i'm saying is that they have more anger in them sometimes (because of bad breeding) and if they aren't socialised properly when they're young then they can be dangerous... I'm not just talking about towards adults either, I mean my dog has an amazing temperment & wants to play with all dogs, but in my village there are a few staffies kept on leads who she isn't allowed near :/ I wish it wasn't the case in any dog as it's not nice to see them not socialising & also not being able to let your dog play when they really want to.
So sorry if it looks like i'm saying all staffies are bad, i'm not at all, just bad breeding of these kinds of breeds can make them more vicious than they should be & I don't like to see it because it spoils their lives as well as they can be proper dogs playing & having fun


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

5rivers79 said:


> Honestly there is no point trying to educate the ignorant. Anyone that says some dogs are evil..and there are breeds that will be aggressive to the gentlest of touches is imo ignorant.


Oh seriously get over it, i'm not saying it about every dog of one breed 
Just that the majority are bred that way & a lot of owers don't take the time to train them to be nice as they think the dogs are 'supposed' to be tough, jeez, if you have to be horrible then don't comment because i'm not ignorant I just like dogs to be trained to be sociable.


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## topseyturvey (Feb 1, 2010)

Staffies are known not to be tolerant of other dogs it's a breed trait.

Most breed clubs do warn that staffies may have a dislike of other dogs,including the East Anglian website where the following quote has come from,


> It's good to socialise your pup as much as possible but I'm afraid all the socialisation in the world doesn't make any difference to the fact that it is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier! The dog will act according to its breed - they are wonderful with people, but very often HATE other dogs and other animals. This is something which is part of the breed's instinct and you will not be able to change. Having a Stafford often means that you take lonely walks -changing direction whenever you see any dogs in the distance. Don't be tempted to take notice of any 'behaviourists' who tell you that they can train a Stafford to be less dog aggressive - in saying that they are showing that they do not understand the nature of the breed.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

topseyturvey said:


> Staffies are known not to be tolerant of other dogs it's a breed trait.
> 
> Most breed clubs do warn that staffies may have a dislike of other dogs,including the East Anglian website where the following quote has come from,


You see that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because we meet loads of staffies when we are out and they have all wanted to play with my dogs, except that one that sank his teeth into Ferdie's leg. Even that one I think was put off when he got close and realised how big he was because he came running down the hill looking like he wanted to play.

One in particular called Alfie always makes a beeline for mine and wants to play. It is all very strange.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

topseyturvey said:


> Staffies are known not to be tolerant of other dogs it's a breed trait.
> 
> Most breed clubs do warn that staffies may have a dislike of other dogs,including the East Anglian website where the following quote has come from,


Yes it is a breed trait, but it dosnt mean it has too be the case, when my brothers staffy or my ohs brothers staffy comes round we have 3 male staffys all playing together now if it was a certain trait that you couldnt stop from airising do you think 3 male staffies could play together without a fight.

Do you think 2 male staffys could live together in harmony. with no fights ever taking place i dont think so.

I know people who have more than one stafford living together in harmony, so it is possible to work.

All dogs take work time and trainning.


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## topseyturvey (Feb 1, 2010)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Yes it is a breed trait, but it dosnt mean it has too be the case, when my brothers staffy or my ohs brothers staffy comes round we have 3 male staffys all playing together now if it was a certain trait that you couldnt stop from airising do you think 3 male staffies could play together without a fight.
> 
> Do you think 2 male staffys could live together in harmony. with no fights ever taking place i dont think so.
> 
> ...


I agree but what you have to remember is the potential is always there,they are a breed when challenged that is unlikely to back down.

My friend has two which are like chalk and cheese,the male is entire,dog friendly and loves people,the female detests other dogs,absolutely hates them so much so she has bitten 3.

I think the breed clubs are been responsible by issuing that warning,likewise so are breeders by telling potential new owners the possible downside to a certain breed.
Alot of Staffies are ending up in rescue because of the fact they are dog aggressive and the owners can't handle them,not all of them are DA but the majority of mature staffies do dislike other dogs.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

LauraIzPops said:


> I didn't say that all staffies are bad... All i'm saying is that *they have more anger in them sometimes* (because of bad breeding) and *if they aren't socialised properly when they're young then they can be dangerous*... I'm not just talking about towards adults either, I mean my dog has an amazing temperment & wants to play with all dogs, *but in my village there are a few staffies kept on leads who she isn't allowed near*


They dont have _more anger in them_...however they are courageous. There is a difference. They wont back down from a fight because that is what they are bred to do.

Any breed can be dangerous if not socialised properly. I saw a video of a food aggressive cockerpoo on youtube..it is only 6 weeks old. Shall we have a go at cockerpoo's too?

Have you spoken to the owners of the staffys tht your dog is not allowed near? Maybe they are kept on leads because their owners are responsible dog owners and dont want to chance it?


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

LauraIzPops said:


> I didn't say that all staffies are bad... All i'm saying is that they have more anger in them sometimes (because of bad breeding) and if they aren't socialised properly when they're young then they can be dangerous... *I'm not just talking about towards adults either*, I mean my dog has an amazing temperment & wants to play with all dogs, but in my village there are a few staffies kept on leads who she isn't allowed near :/ I wish it wasn't the case in any dog as it's not nice to see them not socialising & also not being able to let your dog play when they really want to.
> So sorry if it looks like i'm saying all staffies are bad, i'm not at all, just bad breeding of these kinds of breeds can make them more vicious than they should be & I don't like to see it because it spoils their lives as well as they can be proper dogs playing & having fun


Are you meaning human aggressive?


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

LauraIzPops said:


> Oh seriously get over it, i'm not saying it about every dog of one breed
> Just that the majority are bred that way & a lot of owers don't take the time to train them to be nice as they think the dogs are 'supposed' to be tough, jeez, if you have to be horrible then don't comment because i'm not ignorant I just like dogs to be trained to be sociable.


Get over what?? You called dogs evil?? All i said was you cant associate that term with dogs or any animals as evilness implies that they have bad morals. Animals do not.

They attack as its probably a method of survival. Fight or flight. A dog that feels threatened in anyway..whether or not we see that threat will either run or fight.

As for saying the majority of them are bred that way? Where did you get these facts from because all the staffs iv seen in my area have been friendly?


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

Yes I have spoken to them & they told me it's because they do not like other dogs & they really pull to try and get to her, I wouldn't like to think that they couldn't handle holding their dogs back or there could be a big problem, which the woman especially seems to struggle to keep the dog back when it pulls.
Of course any breed not bred the right way can be aggressive, even cockapoos yes! But that's why you have to find the 'right' breeder who will do a good job for the right reasons & then train your dog accordingly to make sure it is well socialised & friendly. If you want to have a go about cockapoos then be my guest, but mine is very good with all dogs & humans and would never hurt anyone, so go ahead and say what you like...
At the end of the day all I am saying is I wouldn't want a dog as a pet with a bad temperment as it's a lot of hassle on walks & IMO it isn't much fun for the dog either, so I like to hear of dogs who get on with others, which i'm not saying a lot of staffies don't do, just there always seem to be some that you have to be careful of.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

No I mean dog aggressive, I personally wouldn't want a dog who wouldn't socialise with others as it's too difficult on walks when other dogs are around, and power wise I don't think I would be able to control it to keep it away from other dogs.
Oh god, I didn't call 'dogs' evils, I said some can be, that is how they are brought up! They may not have morals, but if they are taught correctly they would know how to behave  & yes it 'could' be a method of survival, although that isn't always the case is it.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

topseyturvey said:


> I agree but what you have to remember is the potential is always there,they are a breed when challenged that is unlikely to back down.
> 
> My friend has two which are like chalk and cheese,the male is entire,dog friendly and loves people,the female detests other dogs,absolutely hates them so much so she has bitten 3.
> 
> ...


They will not start a fight, but they are the kind of breed too finish one, because of there strength.
Now hooch if challenged yes he would but with firm control and too read his body language me n the oh know and will correct him, stan on the other hand has been attacked and started on by various dogs has he rataliated and gone into fight mode no he ran away.

The owner of the 2 staffys if her dog is aggressive should not allow it near other dogs, obv if a dog comes up too her whilst shes on lead then its not ur friends fault but if she lets it offlead around other dogs n its agressive thats very irresponsible.

Staffys end up on rescues because peoplee see stories of them attacking n want rid, they get them on a whim and then dont want them they are a popular dog thats why people get them.

How can u say that the majority of staffies are agressive how many staffys do you actually know personally???

As i have said we have two males, both not dog agressive, my brother has 1 not dog agressive, my ohs brother has one not dog agressive, my neighbour has one not dog agressive they are all males, my hairdresser has a female rescue staffy not dog aggressive, my friend who has a female one has slight issues with some dogs but she is trainning her and getting her alot better behaved, around stanlie she was always fine around my mums female dog she was fine. my other friend has a male staffy n a female x breed he is fine with female dogs but can have issues with some males, when i took my two round there no problems occured.

SO im sorry but that last statement about the majority of staffys is not true. all of these except my brothers staffy who is just over a year are mature staffys.

And i speak too people on various forums who have multi staffy households and there dogs get on fine no problems.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> No I mean dog aggressive, I personally wouldn't want a dog who wouldn't socialise with others as it's too difficult on walks when other dogs are around, and power wise I don't think I would be able to control it to keep it away from other dogs.
> Oh god, I didn't call 'dogs' evils, I said some can be, that is how they are brought up! They may not have morals, but if they are taught correctly they would know how to behave  & yes it 'could' be a method of survival, although that isn't always the case is it.


Not necessarily; what about those dogs attacked by other dogs for example who end up DA but were socialised and trained as well as any other as a puppy? Those who develop health problems? Sometimes these things occur even with the best will in the world.


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## topseyturvey (Feb 1, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> No I mean dog aggressive, I personally wouldn't want a dog who wouldn't socialise with others as it's too difficult on walks when other dogs are around, and power wise I don't think I would be able to control it to keep it away from other dogs.
> Oh god, I didn't call 'dogs' evils, I said some can be, that is how they are brought up! They may not have morals, but if they are taught correctly they would know how to behave  & yes it 'could' be a method of survival, although that isn't always the case is it.


So how would you teach a dog to behave when it's a breed trait ?
Just as some dogs have natural guarding instincts and some have herding instincts the staffie is known not to tolerate other dogs.

I honestly can't see what your point is quite frankly,you complain about dogs been aggressive,then complain that the owners keeps them onlead,which is the responsible thing to do if the dog isn't good with other dogs,this applies to ALL dogs regardless of it's breed.

My friend has brought her two dogs up exactly the same one is DA the other isn't.It was a learn't behaviour from constantly been attacked by other dogs whilst been exercised,but it is also a breed trait.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

This is a good article on inherited aggression and why it is a myth that certain breeds are inherently more aggressive than others. It also explains the psychological mechanisms behind aggression and fighting.

http://www.pitbullguru.com/InheritedDogAggression.pdf


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## topseyturvey (Feb 1, 2010)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> They will not start a fight, but they are the kind of breed too finish one, because of there strength.
> Now hooch if challenged yes he would but with firm control and too read his body language me n the oh know and will correct him, stan on the other hand has been attacked and started on by various dogs has he rataliated and gone into fight mode no he ran away.
> 
> The owner of the 2 staffys if her dog is aggressive should not allow it near other dogs, obv if a dog comes up too her whilst shes on lead then its not ur friends fault but if she lets it offlead around other dogs n its agressive thats very irresponsible.
> ...


I have owned staffies previously,have close friends who breed them and also have links with stafford rescue.

My friend has always kept her female close onlead,it's while she has been onlead that other dogs have approached,despite her owners asking the other owners to recall there dogs,they ignored her and as a result there dogs got bitten.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

Well of course i'm not talking about dogs who have reasons... I know dogs can be attacked which makes them fearful, but i'm not saying that, people are looking into this too much.
I have a friend who has a dog that has been attacked by the same jack russell twice & she is very wearly of other dogs, she can be around my dog & our other friends dogs when she has to be but constantly watches to make sure she knows what's going on.
I know there are exceptions, if I generalise a little too much then don't look into it as I probably don't mean it the way you think.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> Well of course i'm not talking about dogs who have reasons... I know dogs can be attacked which makes them fearful, but i'm not saying that, people are looking into this too much.
> I have a friend who has a dog that has been attacked by the same jack russell twice & she is very wearly of other dogs, she can be around my dog & our other friends dogs when she has to be but constantly watches to make sure she knows what's going on.
> I know there are exceptions, if I generalise a little too much then don't look into it as I probably don't mean it the way you think.


Then say what you mean and it will be less confusing!


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

OMFG people on this forum are so bitchy & unfriendly, I will stop posting on this thread it's absolutely ridiculous!
Yes I would like owners to socialise their dogs if they can so that they don't have to stay on their leads, if they can't then socialise them and the dogs are DA, then obviously keep them on the lead! Why are people being so picky about everything!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> OMFG people on this forum are so bitchy & unfriendly, I will stop posting on this thread it's absolutely ridiculous!
> Yes I would like owners to socialise their dogs if they can so that they don't have to stay on their leads, if they can't then socialise them and the dogs are DA, then obviously keep them on the lead! Why are people being so picky about everything!


I think the broad brush approach you take just confuses everyone. It is difficult to tell what you mean so people will try and find out what it is exactly that you are on about. Some of your posts read as if you are saying "I don't like x - but if you don't like my opinion, then don't look into my reasons for the statement" - it's an open forum so people just like to debate all sides of an argument.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

There's debating and then being down right horrible & unnecessary which I don't like, i'm fine with people not agreeing but I wouldn't be so rude towards other people comments so I don't know why some people feel the need to be towards mine.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> OMFG people on this forum are so bitchy & unfriendly, I will stop posting on this thread it's absolutely ridiculous!
> Yes I would like owners to socialise their dogs if they can so that they don't have to stay on their leads, if they can't then socialise them and the dogs are DA, then obviously keep them on the lead! Why are people being so picky about everything!


Probably because this is an emotive subject. When a child is attacked, bitten whatever by a staffie, a rottie, a GSD or a dobermann, it gets into the newspapers. When a child is attacked by a Jack Russell or Yorkshire Terrier it isn't.

It is the media that cause inexperienced people to assume that all staffies are nasty, all rotties are nasty, all GSDs etc etc. You get the idea.

If you are going to have a dog, you need to find out about their breed traits and work with them and be responsible. Too many people aren't. They buy a dog for its looks, the Akita is a fine example, then wonder why it becomes too much.

The Akita is a beautiful dog, but it is also getting a bad name because of human stupidity. The subject of breed specific prejudice gets people angry and upset, because it is all a load of rubbish.

If I were to go buy a dog today, with no knowledge, I would probably buy for looks, just like I did when I got my retriever. Nowadays, in the same situation, I might go buy a husky and wonder why I couldn't teach it to come back when called!

I know better now and so do we all on here.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> They will not start a fight, but they are the kind of breed too finish one, because of there strength.
> 
> How can u say that the majority of staffies are agressive how many staffys do you actually know personally???


There are a lot of generalised statements being made on both sides - I sit firmly in the middle. I personally know 2 Staffies who are fab dogs and very friendly. But I also know 2 others who are terribly aggressive, 1 has badly injured at least 3 dogs locally; another 1 completely out of the blue mauled a yorkie so badly you could see its lung and intestines.

You may be right about they will not a start a fight I couldn't say, in the cases I have mentioned there was no fight they just ran in and attacked


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

The way you have said stuff makes me think u dont like staffys and thinl they are agressive all of them.

This may not be the case but its the way you come accross too me, maybe the fact i always defend my dogs and the breed and feel i have too because people can be so negitive about them at times, may make how i see what peple say a bit differently.

I am only trying too tell peple that the breed as a whole is not an aggressive breed, how you socialise and bring them up has a major impact, yes they have the potentional too do serious harm but any responsible dog owner would train them and raise them, know there personalitys and do whatever they can too stop anything bad from happening. This shoudl be the case with all breeds as i have said any dog has the potentional too be aggressive. 

Its a forum and people are intitled too say what they think, and people have the right too respond and say what they think.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

*Ok people step away from your pc's for a min and take a breather.. there is no need for us to be getting our under garments in a twist..  In 5 mins once you have all had a breather or whatever it is you do to chill I will re open..*


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

Grrr...had just typed up a long reply when this was closed! 

So I will take that as a sign and not try to remember what I typed.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

*Open again.. Now lets stay calm..  we will never all agree.. *


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Probably because this is an emotive subject. When a child is attacked, bitten whatever by a staffie, a rottie, a GSD or a dobermann, it gets into the newspapers. When a child is attacked by a Jack Russell or Yorkshire Terrier it isn't.
> 
> It is the media that cause inexperienced people to assume that all staffies are nasty, all rotties are nasty, all GSDs etc etc. You get the idea.
> 
> ...


Totally agree.

Its a very touchy subject esp for us owners whos dogs are discriminated against alot.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Especially when you go through all the trouble of socialising and training your dog, and know your dog inside out. As it says in the breed standard. TOTALLY reliable!


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## topseyturvey (Feb 1, 2010)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> Its a very touchy subject esp for us owners whos dogs are discriminated against alot.


I completely understand that,and owners who own certain breeds need to grow a thick skin.
I am currently thinking of having another staffie,I love the breed and am looking at breeders at the moment who have good healthy dogs that are tested.
Sadly my friend won't be breeding for a few years.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> Its a very touchy subject esp for us owners whos dogs are discriminated against alot.


Have I just been lucky? There is a staffy I see being walked near me who is always on lead and I have been told he is aggressive. Mostly, they just want to play.

I was standing by the car a couple of weeks ago on the phone and suddenly felt something on my knee. It was a paw as it happens with a staffie attached. He just wanted to say hello, belonged to a hostel dweller, no lead, but returned to his owner when he had had a fuss.

I don't understand where they find all these nasty ones to be honest. I think it is possibly the way they are approached, and a two year old doesn't know any better.

I used to have a pupil whose parents had five german shepherds. I would go inside and let them have a good sniff at me. Then they were fine. I first went into a house full of newfies and didn't feel the need to do anything but cuddle them. Different breeds need different approaches, but people who let their dogs wander are asking for trouble and so are parents who do not watch their young children.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

topseyturvey said:


> I completely understand that,and owners who own certain breeds need to grow a thick skin.
> I am currently thinking of having another staffie,I love the breed and am looking at breeders at the moment who have good healthy dogs that are tested.
> Sadly my friend won't be breeding for a few years.


Good on your friend for not breeding I say!


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

topseyturvey said:


> I completely understand that,and owners who own certain breeds need to grow a thick skin.
> I am currently thinking of having another staffie,I love the breed and am looking at breeders at the moment who have good healthy dogs that are tested.
> Sadly my friend won't be breeding for a few years.


Yeah deffinantly do have too have a thick skin.

I will always defend my boys n there breed thou no matter what, and try too educate people about the breed.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

Just wanna show that staffys n other staffs n dogs n children can get on.
















Im sure shelly who has maizie milliepooches sis wont mind me posting these pics.


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

terencesmum said:


> Especially when you go through all the trouble of socialising and training your dog, and know your dog inside out. As it says in the breed standard. TOTALLY reliable!


Not totally. I have a few locally who have been socialised and trained really well but they still turned out to be very dog aggressive when they matured for no reason at all. No attacks, no bad handling, just pure and simple breed trait coming through. One person has other staffies that are really good but then these oddballs that weren't, not even with their other staffies not their kids. So they were PTS. All down to bad breeding.
I have a lot of staffies in my area but only a few are dog friendly and slowly they are disappearing as their owners get fed up of horrendous walks with a snapping, snarling dog that is clawing at their (owners) legs to get away, to get other dog. Most of these dogs have come from rescue and they were told they were good with other dogs.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I dont understand what the arguments are about. Of course breeds have characteristics and that is what makes us choose a breed. We all want something different from our dogs. It is ridiculous to say anything different. A collie is a herding dog and will herd and nip because of its breeding. I love staffies and the ones I have had to do with and looked after have had spot on temperaments with both children and dogs but they are being bred as fighting dogs in certain circles so surely it is not silly to assume that a lot will be aggressive towards other dogs. 

And if a staffie bites a child it is going to inflict a lot more damage than one of my poodles would. Its intent might be exactly the same but its jaws and tenacity are different.

None of us know what happened but the child had head injuries and had to be kicked off the child - had it been a collie then the injuries would probably have been far less as the dog would have nipped and retreated unless really riled. I have though read about a labrador crushing a toddler's skull - again something my poodles could not physically do.
The press are jumping on staffie attacks so we dont really know how often or how serious other attacks are but my guess is that most dog attacks take place in the home with the family dog but ones on the street will tend to be the out of control dogs which in some areas could equal status dog breeds.

When I was a child there was a local dog in the road we lived on that used to bite us if we went near it. As it would sit in the middle of the pavement it was hard to avoid but we still got the blame if we got bitten. And it was a Scottie  I wonder what uproar there would be nowadays if the same small dog was allowed to terrorise the local children and stop them walking down the pavement. Dog attacks are nothing new, it is just the take on them that has changed.


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## xxbailliexx (May 17, 2010)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Just wanna show that staffys n other staffs n dogs n children can get on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


totally off topic but....

:001_wub::001_wub: 
what gorgeous dogs!! shelleystanlie your dogs are on my dog napping list


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Just wanna show that staffys n other staffs n dogs n children can get on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maizie Daisy :001_wub::001_wub::001_wub: lol

Lovely photos Michele  x x


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I dont understand what the arguments are about. Of course breeds have characteristics and that is what makes us choose a breed. We all want something different from our dogs. It is ridiculous to say anything different. A collie is a herding dog and will herd and nip because of its breeding. I love staffies and the ones I have had to do with and looked after have had spot on temperaments with both children and dogs but they are being bred as fighting dogs in certain circles so surely it is not silly to assume that a lot will be aggressive towards other dogs.
> 
> And if a staffie bites a child it is going to inflict a lot more damage than one of my poodles would. Its intent might be exactly the same but its jaws and tenacity are different.
> 
> ...


This is just not true. The statistics are readily available on the internet. Just google. Surprise, surprise, staffies are not the worst offenders.

What you are saying about the damage they can cause is true. 
However, I do find it slightly tedious to talk about this. The really interesting thing about dog attacks to me is the threshold for aggression towards humans. I once read this very interesting study by some Austrian professor and she talked about aggression in dogs and why people and the media perceive some dogs to be bigger threats than others. Her point was that the dogs you should (theoretically) be more wary about are dogs that are bred for guarding, as logically those dogs have a lower threshold when it comes to bite inhibition. Interestingly (to me), so called fighting breeds are usually a lot more tolerant of their handlers because they had to be handled if they got injured in fights or had to be pulled apart.

Sorry if no one else finds this interesting


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## staffygurl (Aug 29, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> Ok but unfortunately its the CHAV's that have spoilt it for responsible owners like yourself. The same with my dogs breed, being a gsd, it doesnt take a fool to know they are strong powerful dogs. They are used for guarding. They've got a reputation for guarding so when you own a breed with a reputation you do everything in your power to make that dog be a credit to its breed.


Again why is everyone saying its the "Chavs" fault me and my partner have a staff, not because of status, or guarding or any nonsense like that, but because behind all their bad press and prejudice they are a gorgeous, loyal, loving breed, but the amount of horrible comments and looks we have received just because my partner maybe wearing his track suit bottoms that day or maybe because we are young-ish couple (28 years old) we automatically get branded as "those chavs that only get staffies to fight them"!!

Does it matter what I look like...does it matter how old I am...or does it matter that I have a loving, gentle dog who has a good home where she is loved and cared for.

Yeh ok SOME chavs may abuse a staffs character for their own use but NOT ALL CHAVS!!! Their are other "groups" of people out there doing it too...


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

staffygurl said:


> Again why is everyone saying its the "Chavs" fault me and my partner have a staff, not because of status, or guarding or any nonsense like that, but because behind all their bad press and prejudice they are a gorgeous, loyal, loving breed, but the amount of horrible comments and looks we have received just because my partner maybe wearing his track suit bottoms that day or maybe because we are young-ish couple (28 years old) we automatically get branded as "those chavs that only get staffies to fight them"!!
> 
> Does it matter what I look like...does it matter how old I am...or does it matter that I have a loving, gentle dog who has a good home where she is loved and cared for.
> 
> Yeh ok SOME chavs may abuse a staffs character for their own use but NOT ALL CHAVS!!! Their are other "groups" of people out there doing it too...


Totally agree there, me n the other half are 21 n 22, we were trackies i only wear them for walks but oh wears them most of the time, so you can just imagen the looks we get. If that makes us CHAVS then tbh i dont care what people think about me but i wont stand by and let people who havnt a clue judge something the majority base on what they have heard and read in the papers.

I always say dont judge a book by its cover, i dont judge other dog breeds as its not right and i find it a form of racism. For example 2 jack russels went for stan luckily the family dog tara a collie x corgie stepped in and defended him, as he wouldnt defend himself, but i dont go around saying all jrt are nasty infact i would love too own one.


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## staffygurl (Aug 29, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Totally agree there, me n the other half are 21 n 22, we were trackies i only wear them for walks but oh wears them most of the time, so you can just imagen the looks we get. If that makes us CHAVS then tbh i dont care what people think about me but i wont stand by and let people who havnt a clue judge something the majority base on what they have heard and read in the papers.
> 
> I always say dont judge a book by its cover, i dont judge other dog breeds as its not right and i find it a form of racism. For example 2 jack russels went for stan luckily the family dog tara a collie x corgie stepped in and defended him, as he wouldnt defend himself, but i dont go around saying all jrt are nasty infact i would love too own one.


I'm so happy to read someone in our situation!! I can honestly say I sympathise in a way with how the staffy breed is looked down upon by some people because as people who own one...we get looked down upon too for exactly the same reason the staffs are...the minority...!!

I actually came across a chap in the woods walking his little Airedale Terrier, it was off lead and it came bounding up to our pup the guy couldn't have run over fast enough...but when he approached and realised the dogs were gettin on like a house on fire he was shocked!! He asked me if she bit when i replied no he bent down stroked her looked up and said something that made me wanna tape record it....he said..."Oh I guess it is all about how you raise them!!"


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

staffygurl said:


> Again why is everyone saying its the "Chavs" fault me and my partner have a staff, not because of status, or guarding or any nonsense like that, but because behind all their bad press and prejudice they are a gorgeous, loyal, loving breed, but the amount of horrible comments and looks we have received just because my partner maybe wearing his track suit bottoms that day or maybe because we are young-ish couple (28 years old) we automatically get branded as "those chavs that only get staffies to fight them"!!
> 
> Does it matter what I look like...does it matter how old I am...or does it matter that I have a loving, gentle dog who has a good home where she is loved and cared for.
> 
> Yeh ok SOME chavs may abuse a staffs character for their own use but NOT ALL CHAVS!!! Their are other "groups" of people out there doing it too...


Where did I say you are a chav. All I can comment on is what I have seen and the good owners tend to raise a well balanced dog whereas the CHAV's have them purely for status. If you aren't a chav whats your problem? Oh and my defination of a chav, just to be clear is not judged by what someone is wearing. It becomes apparent they are a chav the moment they open their mouths and speak. I have heard one CHAV bragging about his dog's ability to inflict serious damage to others, not the sort of person I want behind me when I'm walking my dog thankyou.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Milliepoochie said:


> Maizie Daisy :001_wub::001_wub::001_wub: lol
> 
> Lovely photos Michele  x x


Beautiful, happy well balanced looking dogs. They look like they are smiling


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

staffygurl said:


> I'm so happy to read someone in our situation!! I can honestly say I sympathise in a way with how the staffy breed is looked down upon by some people because as people who own one...we get looked down upon too for exactly the same reason the staffs are...the minority...!!
> 
> I actually came across a chap in the woods walking his little Airedale Terrier, it was off lead and it came bounding up to our pup the guy couldn't have run over fast enough...but when he approached and realised the dogs were gettin on like a house on fire he was shocked!! He asked me if she bit when i replied no he bent down stroked her looked up and said something that made me wanna tape record it....he said..."Oh I guess it is all about how you raise them!!"


Even thou we get alot of stick, ive had people run into a main road with on coming traffic shouting her head off  hearing people say crap about them after they have crossed over the road and lots more. ]

We do occasionaly get the nice comments, when we went for a walk the other day i stepped out of the way too let a women late 50's early 60's walking her 2 jrts go past, she stepped and admired stan n hooch saying what lovely colours they were and how its all aout how you raise them, stood chatting for about 10 mins.
Last week when i took them over the park residents and staff from where i work were over there and couldnt believe how well behaved stan and hooch were, i take stan into my works all the residents love him. 
Biggest thing in my opinion stan has done for the breed for me is he changed my mums mind from being anti staffy too sticking up for the breed before i even can, and she classes the boys and my brothers staffy frankie as her granchildren.

People should give them a chance. its not everyones breed choice and thats fair enough, but is it too much too ask for people too actually get too know the breed (when raised correctly) and them judge them.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

staffygurl said:


> I'm so happy to read someone in our situation!! I can honestly say I sympathise in a way with how the staffy breed is looked down upon by some people because as people who own one...we get looked down upon too for exactly the same reason the staffs are...the minority...!!
> 
> I actually came across a chap in the woods walking his little Airedale Terrier, it was off lead and it came bounding up to our pup the guy couldn't have run over fast enough...but when he approached and realised the dogs were gettin on like a house on fire he was shocked!! He asked me if she bit when i replied no he bent down stroked her looked up and said something that made me wanna tape record it....he said..."Oh I guess it is all about how you raise them!!"


My OH and I are both 26. Not what you'd call chavs. There is another member on here, Lexilou, who is also far, far away from "chav". There are actually quite a lot of people who have staffies, but the only time you really notice them is when you meet a media stereotype. I think people subconsciously only notice what they expect to see. The millions of "normal" people just slip under the radar, because "normal people don't have staffs, right?"


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

terencesmum said:


> This is just not true. The statistics are readily available on the internet. Just google. Surprise, surprise, staffies are not the worst offenders.
> 
> What you are saying about the damage they can cause is true.
> However, I do find it slightly tedious to talk about this. The really interesting thing about dog attacks to me is the threshold for aggression towards humans. I once read this very interesting study by some Austrian professor and she talked about aggression in dogs and why people and the media perceive some dogs to be bigger threats than others. Her point was that the dogs you should (theoretically) be more wary about are dogs that are bred for guarding, as logically those dogs have a lower threshold when it comes to bite inhibition. Interestingly (to me), so called fighting breeds are usually a lot more tolerant of their handlers because they had to be handled if they got injured in fights or had to be pulled apart.
> ...


Where did I say staffies were the worst offenders. I said the media jump on them so we (the public, not those that want to check on google) get the idea they are the worst. I love staffies, the ones I have known do not have an ounce of aggression. And of course the guarding breeds are far more likely to bite - and until staffies reputations were ruined by the minority of bad owners then it was the guarding breeds that were jumped on from a great height by the media. I still think that most dog attacks are by the family dog and because labs and retrievers are the most common family dog they are the biggest culprits but the press do not find these interesting.

Because staffies are the commonest dogs wandering the streets in some areas and maybe the commonest dog to be kept by the truly irresponsible owner then the high profile dog attacks (those in the public eye and the child deaths in the home where neither dog or child are supervised) are likely to be by staffies.

No one is saying that labs or retrievers are dangerous dogs because everyone knows lots of lovely friendly ones. and it is not just staffie owners who suffer from discrimination, owners of all the guarding breeds get it in the neck too. GSDs, rotties, dobes - I bet there are just as many judgments made over them and at one time owning a GSD could be really awkward and I am sure rotties were even more witch hunted.

The point of this thread was though that a STAFFIE attacked a child on the street.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> People should give them a chance. its not everyones breed choice and thats fair enough, but is it too much too ask for people too actually get too know the breed (when raised correctly) and them judge them.


Seriously I would give any dog I met a chance, the only problem is that I haven't met any that have been brought up well because I only live in a small village & there aren't loads of each breed around, so unfortunately the only ones i've seen have been aggressive, that doesn't mean I don't know that some are nice, you get good and 'bad' dogs in all breeds, i'm just yet to meet one that's all :/ I wish there were more nice sociable dogs where I live as mine would love to play, but it's just not the case


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> Seriously I would give any dog I met a chance, the only problem is that I haven't met any that have been brought up well because I only live in a small village & there aren't loads of each breed around, so unfortunately the only ones i've seen have been aggressive, that doesn't mean I don't know that some are nice, you get good and 'bad' dogs in all breeds, i'm just yet to meet one that's all :/ I wish there were more nice sociable dogs where I live as mine would love to play, but it's just not the case


I meant people in general not you


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

No I understand, i'm not saying you're singling me out, just it would be nice if we lived somewhere with more dogs walking everyday as we might come across the nice dogs of the breed instead :/ Just sharing my experience of living in a small village with a lot of dogs that won't play with others  I'm not really sure why that is :S


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> No I understand, i'm not saying you're singling me out, just it would be nice if we lived somewhere with more dogs walking everyday as we might come across the nice dogs of the breed instead :/ Just sharing my experience of living in a small village with a lot of dogs that won't play with others  I'm not really sure why that is :S


There are many, many people who will not let their dogs play for no particular reason other than that they are scared they will fight. I know someone with a 9 year old cocker spaniel who has never once been off lead in his entire life, because she is scared he won't come back. Hasn't made any attempt to teach him recall, just decided she was better off if he was on a lead all the time.

If you never let them play you never know, do you? It is the old wives' tales that dogs will always fight that they believe.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

Yes but when we talk to the owners as we walk past they comment on them not liking other dogs, so most of the time where I live it's not just because of being scared they won't come back, we have a friend who has a beagle and for a very long time they had to keep it on the lead because he would run off, but now he can be if they want as he has settled well, but he was always allowed to play with Izzie on a walk.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> Yes but when we talk to the owners as we walk past they comment on them not liking other dogs, so most of the time where I live it's not just because of being scared they won't come back, we have a friend who has a beagle and for a very long time they had to keep it on the lead because he would run off, but now he can be if they want as he has settled well, but he was always allowed to play with Izzie on a walk.


I have heard a lot of people say their dog doesn't like other dogs but it is often because they have never had a chance to socialise.

Ferdie went up to a collie once and the woman grabbed her back and declared that she didn't like that sort of dog. Well, how many newfies has she seen for God's sake? It was more a case of her being wary of such a big dog, so making the collie afraid of them.

But you will never change these people so best to stay away from them.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

I know :/ We do stay away just incase, it's sad that some dogs aren't let off lead or be allowed to play with dogs etc, but I suppose some are taking cautions. I just wish there were more off dog leads when we take Izzie out because she's so sociable & loves to play! It's nice to see her have a friend every now and again, she gets to go to filey quite a lot and play with other dogs on the beach & she loves it  She has no fear either, she once walked up to a great dane on the beach and started sniffing it! It was about 10 times the size of her haha


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

LauraIzPops said:


> No I understand, i'm not saying you're singling me out, just it would be nice if we lived somewhere with more dogs walking everyday as we might come across the nice dogs of the breed instead :/ Just sharing my experience of living in a small village with a lot of dogs that won't play with others  I'm not really sure why that is :S


I just wish we lived in a country that idiots were taking acountable for the actions of there dogs then they would train them r not have them, banning people who raise there dogs aggressively from ever owning a dg again.

But much easier too target the dogs and have them destroyed.


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## staffygurl (Aug 29, 2011)

LauraIzPops said:


> No I understand, i'm not saying you're singling me out, just it would be nice if we lived somewhere with more dogs walking everyday as we might come across the nice dogs of the breed instead :/ Just sharing my experience of living in a small village with a lot of dogs that won't play with others  I'm not really sure why that is :S


I'm so glad I read this comment!! I feel exactly the same, our pup Roxie loves other dogs and so far she has socialised quite well but there are no owners round here that will allow their dogs to play with our pup (not because of prejudice because 2 houses have staffs too) but because again like you said they say how he doesn't like other dogs for too long, just a quick hello and he won't tolerate anymore (she obv reads his body language all wrong because when they met in passing on the street he was in the playing, butt in the air type pose and his tail was going like the clappers) I would love Roxie to have a few doggies that she could have some regular playtime with and maybe some older dogs who can she learn from. Unfortunatly there doesn't seem to be anything like that for her


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