# Trouble with my Border Collie



## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Hi All
I am having some trouble with my border collie who is 6 months old and am hoping you can give me some words of wisdom.

Below are the main issues im struggling with:

Biting - he will jump up at your back or dart out from underneath things and he is creating marks on my girlfriend and kids.

Constantly pulling on the lead, unless i use a halter head coller, will also grab the lead in his mouth and turn things into a tug of war, but not all the time. 

I have numerous other little issues that i am trying to work on, but the above are the main problems.

He doesn't misbehave as much when i am there, but as soon as i leave the room, it begins.

He is going to be neutered in the next week or so, i beleive that can help to calm him down.

Hope you can help.

Many Thanks


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm afraid that's what collies are bred to do and in the absence of sheep they will nip at anything available that moves, unless trained otherwise.

Have you thought about enroling at a dog training class, preferably one that is collie savvy?

You don't say how much exercise your puppy is getting and more importantly mental stimulation ie training.


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

He is out on the park each morning for about 45 minutes off lead and in the evening for about 1 hour again off lead. Throughout the day he will go on a couple of small walks on the lead and has free run of the large garden. We constantly play with him with his toys - ball, frisbie, squeeky toys etc. He is going to training and has completed his foundation and can sit, stay, wait etc. So he is doing a lot of things well, just the biting that is the main issue.

Thanks
Brian


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## sashski (Aug 14, 2011)

Sounds like he's getting bored!

Playing is one thing but giving him a challenge i.e training will help tire him out mentally and calm him down.

Sounds as if you are pack leader therefore when you leave everyone else is game for playing with.

As for the pulling on the lead and tug of war - he's still a puppy and lead manners need to be taught part of basic training.


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for your replies - is there any particular training i should be doing to stimulate him more, other than the normal. I am planning on taking him to agility training soon when it starts.

Thanks


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

please don't neuter just yet or you could well be stuck with these issues, it wont calm him down he'll remain 'immature' for the rest of his life, better to work through the teenage stage and if you must, neuter when he's physically and mentally mature.

this is a typical border collie and to be honest you're probably 'over exercising' his body whilst under exercising his mind.

collies need to understand 'down' time and at 6 months shouldn't have too much physical exercise. it seems to me that you've decided exercise should be given to 'tire him out' but as you've found, it simply makes them fit, makes them hyper and also is a worry for their growing bones.

I've 7 collies and they all have exercise, mental stimulation and learn to 'rest' or 'chill out'. IMO you're stimulating him too much and should start calming him down a bit - so yes to mental stimulation, some exercise, but chill out time as well


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Bryski said:


> Thanks for your replies - is there any particular training i should be doing to stimulate him more, other than the normal. I am planning on taking him to agility training soon when it starts.
> 
> Thanks


Is sounds to me like a good game that is getting out of hand which is a typical collie trait.

Do some work on the nipping ie have a few pots of tit-bits around the house and when he appears from under a chair, or whatever, simply say "sit" and reward him before he has the chance to nip. It will take a bit of time and effort but this behaviour needs stopping now.


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

On another note what food are you feeding as some foods can make a collie hyper.


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## Skandi (May 4, 2012)

Sorry to hijack.. but my collie cross, well training seems to make her totaly hyper! even sit and wait as soon as she's released bounces all over which she doesn't do normally.

I guess also ignore any nipping you don't want, if it doesn't get him anything he may well decide it isn't worth it. Also get your OH and kids to join in his training, you can't stop him nipping them, they have to do it. (assuming the kids are not too small)


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Again thanks for all your help, i will try more mental stimulation and maybe more lead walking with a little running off lead. As for the food its like the dry food that you add water too - Baker's i think. What food would you recommend?

Thanks


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

It wouldn't be Bakers as this can make them hyper. My B.C is on Burns Alert. My Rough is on Vets Kitchen. As for the castrating do wait until your pup is at least 18 months.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Bryski said:


> Again thanks for all your help, i will try more mental stimulation and maybe more lead walking with a little running off lead. As for the food its like the dry food that you add water too - Baker's i think. What food would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks


Bakers is full of additives and will make him hyper. Its a bit like continually feeding children MacDonalds.

There are plenty of decent, moderately priced complete foods out there - James Wellbeloved - CSJ - Skinners - Wainwrights, etc. etc.

Three of my collies are fed on Arden Grange which is approximately £27 per 15kg bag if you order two bags from Berriewoods or Feedem Pet Supplies online.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Bryski said:


> Again thanks for all your help, i will try more mental stimulation and maybe more lead walking with a little running off lead. As for the food its like the dry food that you add water too - Baker's i think. What food would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks


Bakers is probably the worst food available - colourings and sugar don't keep a dog calm. Wagg is close second.

Forget anything you can get from a supermarket. Skinners field and trial duck and rice is a good budget-priced food (cheaper than Bakers), but have a look at some of the online dog food guides. Pets at Home own brand is OK if you have one nearby. You can order the food you choose online, or go to one of those country supplies places that sells stuff for horsey people and dogs. An independent local pet shop would also get the food of your choice in as a special order, if they don't keep it in stock.

Also I agree with PennyGC, 6 months is way to young to neuter. It's not just the immaturity, but also the increased risks of bone cancer and cruciate ligament injury.


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

I will look into his food aswell and check what is in it and look for a better alternative.

Many Thanks


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

yes, really anything but Bakers :-(


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Hi PennyGC
Could you please give me a few pointers with the mental stimulation side and where would be the best place to start?

Thanks


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Bryski said:


> Hi PennyGC
> Could you please give me a few pointers with the mental stimulation side and where would be the best place to start?
> 
> Thanks


Mine are competition obedience dogs although I have competed very successfully in the past at agility and heelwork to music.

Bearing in mind you intend to do agility with him a very fast and instant recall both to front and heel would be useful as would an instant down and a solid stay.

HTH


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

I'd be looking at using his nose for mind stimulation, after all it is his greatest sense, get him to use it to forage for his food

Introduce feeding in the following ways;
Feed out of stuffed kongs, at first put the food in very loosely, so it falls out when he touches the kong with their nose or paw, gradually build up the difficulty, pushing the food in harder so he has to work for it. If he looses interest in feeding from the kong, you have made it too hard too soon, go back a stage. Eventually you can wet the food and pack it really tight.

Once he is used to feeding out of kongs you can hide them around your house or garden , let them see you hiding them at first, they then have to use his nose to go and find them.

Spread trails of food around the house or garden, or when out on a walk so they can locate it.

Hide small piles of food around the house and garden for them to forage.

Throw hand fuls of food into the garden so he needs to go and search, let him watch you do it at first, so he doesn't think you have just stopped feeding him.

If he likes toys hide them round the house and garden so he can go look for them, again he will need to watch you at first so he knows what is going on.

Are you intending to do any dog sports with him ?


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

Bryski said:


> Hi PennyGC
> Could you please give me a few pointers with the mental stimulation side and where would be the best place to start?
> 
> Thanks


anything really at this age - get a book on clicker training and teach lots of 'tricks'. If you want to do agility, join a club now, book a puppy class for when your pup is 10-12 months old and see what they do, plenty you can be learning about. Your pup should walk on both your left and right, teach to go left and right (I just use a treat to do a circle), and go 'on' ie ahead by the use of a ball... you want your dog to be happy working away from you, so perhaps train to go around something either left handed or right handed and teach some distance... a good stay is useful too...

find a decent puppy class, don't just work pup on your left though, explain you'll be wanting to do agility not just obedience...

look on agilitynet for your local agility clubs, some will offer 'puppy training' or 'pre agility' training which can be useful.... but many general puppy classes will be just as good as long as you do everything on your left and right...

good luck, collies are great and agility is very addictive


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Thanks everyone for all your help. I feel re-charged ready to start again.

Ill let you know how things work out. I will hold off on the neutering and working harder on the training.

Many Thanks


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Bryski said:


> Hi All
> I am having some trouble with my border collie who is 6 months old and am hoping you can give me some words of wisdom.
> 
> Below are the main issues im struggling with:
> ...


Collies demand to be the centre of attention, probably more than any other breed and they are clever enough to try various techniques to get the attention they want from whining to chewing anything and everything. All they are doing is waiting for what is next and want to be involved.

You say these two are the main ones but there are many others which you are working on. A lot of the issues can be controlled by changing the routine and getting the dog to take a breather.

Think of your dog not understanding a comfortable silence. Until you let him know that you are perfectly happy with him to have an hour snooze then he will try and find something to do and when dogs do this it is when the issues arise.

Folk will say "It's a collie thing to nip", no it isn't. It is only considered as a last resort for a collie to nip a stubborn sheep. The collie "eye" is their main weapon of choice to get things moving - you see them stalking their stock and never taking their eyes from the target, that is collie "eye". In virtually all breeds it is never acceptable for a dog to nip. If you find your dog staring at somebody then the dog is using the collie "eye" to try and move that person, if the person can't see the dog doing this then the dog will get frustrated at not being able to move the herding target and will eventually nip - that is the basic process. The easiest way to counter this is to get the dog to switch off in the home and when a command is given if you are on an adventure.

When he is waiting under a table for an unsuspecting victim to pounce on he will have been waiting for some time. During this time he will have calculated exactly what he wanted and that was to have something to do but because that never came he tried to engage play but does it in a way that is not acceptable in that he bites and claws. This will be more evident if you could see him before he attacks from behind you because he will have been watching you for some time willing you to do something and when that doesn't happen he tries to engage you. If you see this happening you need to start interrupting the behaviour to break his concentration on what he is pondering. You can do this with a "No" or a "stay". A "No" has to be followed up with a consequence that makes him understand that his behaviour is not acceptable if he continues to carry out his behaviour and this can be anything from removing him from the environment for a short time (take away the possibility of interaction), clicking your fingers in front of him (I use this a lot as it makes a noise which can snap them out of the trance) or to eliminate all possibility keep him on a leash in the house for a while so he can't pounce on folk. If you choose to use "Stay" then reward him when he doesn't move from where he is as you are teaching him it is ok to watch as long as he doesn't act upon it (this can work wonders when used alongside standard practice of training "stay" in play or training). Once he has been rewarded for "stay" you then need to move him by calling him to you and reward him again.

Lead biting can be excitement, stress, frustration or if it hasn't been interrupted before - a game. If you drop the lead then you should be able to gauge which the dog is experiencing but more than likely it won't be stress unless they have been pulling to get away from you or refusing to move. Again I use a finger click and a "AH" if any dog I've had has turned to mouthing the lead and letting all of the slack out of the lead. Our instinctive reaction is to pull the lead - if something snags on something then we automatically pull it to release it, do this with a dog and it becomes exciting and a game. If you are worried about the cost in replacement leads then buy a chain lead so the dog can't chew through it, allow the lead to slacken off, ignore the dog completely or use your method of interrupting unwanted behaviour and when the dog has released it (not much of a game if there is nothing pulling back)praise and carry on.



Bryski said:


> He is out on the park each morning for about 45 minutes off lead and in the evening for about 1 hour again off lead. Throughout the day he will go on a couple of small walks on the lead and has free run of the large garden. We constantly play with him with his toys - ball, frisbie, squeeky toys etc. He is going to training and has completed his foundation and can sit, stay, wait etc. So he is doing a lot of things well, just the biting that is the main issue.
> 
> Thanks
> Brian


Over stimulation can result in a neurotic dog, especially if it's a collie. Walk the dog as you are and that will be plenty for him to be tired, physically. During the day or the evening do three or four short 5mins training sessions with him doing stuff he knows, then something new and finishing with something he can do easily - always finish on a high. Make sure though you start and end the sessions.

Go around and pick up all of his toys and put them somewhere out of his reach. By this I mean somewhere he can't get access to by even sitting by the cupboard so if he can't get into the hallway and you have a cupboard under the stairs then put them in there. Toys are for playing with ONLY when a family member says so, not when he says so. If he starts the game then he is not learning to relax and learning this will be a major benefit to all. 
I don't play any games of any kind with mine in the house. When they come in from a walk they soon learn that when in the house they can relax and switch off. If I get up to go anywhere they don't usually follow me but if they do they know not expect anything but just want to see what I'm doing - I don't mind this and it doesn't cause issues. If I am going to do any training with them then I go get an appropriate toy, call the dog I am training to me and ask them to follow me out into the garden. Once we are outside the door is closed behind us which may or may not help to create a physical/mental barrier to the house. Before I do anything with the toy I ask the dog to offer me a behaviour such as sit or wait and then I introduce the toy to the training either giving it to them to chew on for a game of tug or throwing it for them to retrieve.
At the end of training I make sure I have the toy. I look at the dog, say "That'll do" and walk away back in the house, take the toy straight to the storage place and then go back into where the dogs are. This over a few session will drive home that games are only to be played when you decide and they end on that command and the dog can switch off. When I say this to mine you see a collie go from tense, anticipating the next command and eager to react instantly to a dog that is relaxed and acting like a dog - sniffing, peeing and crapping. If you do this when out on walks also you can structure your walks to the point where if you know you are coming to a point where every dog marks then why run the risk in the early stages of asking a dog to carry out something off leash for it to wander over and have a sniff. A few yards before the marking spot get the toy into your possession, look the dog in the eye and give your relax command i.e. "That'll do". The dog is then free to go sniff without disobeying you or having to face negative consequences.

In the house the dog is allowed to have a chew toy such as a knuckle bone or rawhide chew to help pass the time as dogs love to chew but no toys for fetch or what they associate with play. If the dog brings the chew over to you to play fetch (mine did for a while as it could be used as a fetch toy) then say "No" and place the chew on the floor - don't throw it or it WILL become a game. Once it is on the floor ignore the dog.



Bryski said:


> Thanks for your replies - is there any particular training i should be doing to stimulate him more, other than the normal. I am planning on taking him to agility training soon when it starts.
> 
> Thanks


If you are taking him to agility then why not start early. In the garden get a garden cane and just lay it on the floor. Using a treat lure him over the cane and reward him when all four paws are over the cane. after a month or so of being able to ask him to go "Over" (or whatever command you want) you can raise it by placing it on two flat house bricks. At this height he won't have to jump (can be bad for joints if started too early) but he will have to lift his paws with more thought to avoid knocking the cane off of the bricks.
If you have a piece of wood such as an old shelf, then you can prop this up on the flat brick and get him used to walking up an incline (ready for the see-saw). Put another at the other end and he can get used to walking down an incline as well.
Think of the obstacles in the agility ring and start them at their very basic level. If you have a coffee table get him at the other side to you, push a treat through to him and see if you can get him to crawl under the coffee table towards you. 
It doesn't have to be all training in a standard sense but getting a dog used to different terrain, being in certain spaces and various lighting with you not only builds a great bond but it instils great confidence in the dog also.



Bryski said:


> Again thanks for all your help, i will try more mental stimulation and maybe more lead walking with a little running off lead. As for the food its like the dry food that you add water too - Baker's i think. What food would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks


Bakers - crystal meth for dogs.

It's a great food because it is available everywhere thanks to Purina making lovely adverts that lure owners into thinking that dogs will love it due to the different coloured pieces and the yummy gravy it makes. Dogs don't give a hoot what colour their food is but how it smells and makes them feel. Think of Bakers as really high sugared Coco-Pops - they taste of chocolate and make you feel energised afterwards. You get gravy from them too when they release their chocolate delights into your milk. Now add some real hardcore E numbers in there and give them to a small child. You have lit the blue touch paper and are about to be a first hand witness to a whirlwind of a devil child for the next hour or so.

If you tell us your budget for dog food then we can advise you on more appropriate and suitable foods for you dog. It is a minefield out there with different levels of protein, oils, fats and gluten free stuff when it comes to dry food. Depending where you are in the world somebody may mentor you in feeding a raw diet (sounds like you need a science degree but it's dead simple).

Any questions just fire away.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Forgot to add.

The best thing for a dog that is displaying unwanted behaviour or being behaved when one person is around and then pushing the boundaries when they aren't is consistency and consistency from everyone in the house. The dog lives with your family so it your family's responsibility not just one person.

Get some paper and a pen, gather the family around the kitchen table and talk about the dog. Talk about what it isn't allowed to do, for example - the dog isn't allowed to get on the furniture, the dog isn't allowed upstairs, the dog isn't allowed to chew on anything that isn't for the dog... all of these are standard rules that folk apply to their dog but if one doesn't allow the dog on the sofa and the others do then the dog gets confused and will slip up one day having to juggle the laws of each person. 

Once you have batted out the rules now put them in a list format. A list of about 10 is enough for anyone to remember. Make copies of this list and place them all over the house. Put one on the fridge, on the lounge door, on the back of the bathroom door, on each bedroom door, on the kitchen door and anywhere else you can think of. These rules have to become like a mantra to every member of the family so that no matter who is with the dog they know what is an incorrect behaviour and can correct the dog if needs be and the dog will quickly learn unwanted behaviours and change for the better. All your dog wants to do is fit in and know what is expected of it. If it is getting mixed signals then the home doesn't make sense to the dog and the dog will not be able to fully relax and let its personality shine through to the full for all to enjoy.

Now you have the rules and everyone is on board with them it is time to look at training. Everyone should be involved with training so they can enjoy the dog, the dog can enjoy them and the dog learns how to behave around each member of the family. All of the commands HAVE to be the same from each person so decide on which words will mean what behaviour i.e. "down" for laying down and "Off" for jumping up or counter surfing - don't use down to mean "stand on all four paws" if the dog is jumping up on someone if you already use it for telling the dog to lie down. See how confusing it can become for the dog?

If everyone knows the rules and the commands then the dog will quickly learn the rules and commands. Easy!


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Hutch6
Thanks for all your advice, i will try putting things into practice. I have another question for you if thats ok. I bought a longer lead, with the intention of getting him more used to the lead. I have spent the last two nights trying to correct his pulling by changing direction and giving a short sharp tug on the lead and saying heal. When i first get to the park, we get out of the car and he starts off pulling the lead for a few minutes at first and then stops and gets on with his walk. After walking for a while i let him off and play with him with his ball / frisbie. When i put him back on the lead, his grabbing of the lead and pulling becomes much worse, i tried to correct with sharp little tugs and saying no, but he gets more angry to the point of jumping up to bite and growling etc (quite nasty). Usually if i get hold of his collar he will stop until i let him go again. This is hard work and very stressful. To the point i cant wait to get him back in the car. I am probably doing this wrong, but please help, as my sanity is quickly deteriorating.

P.S. Can i send him to you for a week and you bring him back as a model pouch. Lol

Many Thanks
Brian


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

If Angus grabs the lead and starts biting it and pulling I don't reward him by pulling back and turning it into a game for him - I stop and put him into a "down" until he has calmed down and is ready to walk properly.

The problem with trying to train any dog (but in my opinion especially a breed like a collie) by using negative reinforcers - such as jerking on a lead - is that the dog can interpret your punishment as being a good thing - any attention is good to a dog who craves attention. Or can interpret your actions as being part of a game so play along.

Personally I don't believe in giving any tugs or jerks to my dog's neck - I don't want to risk causing an injury. Our loose lead walking is still a work in progress - the main problem being that we don't do it often enough to rehearse the good behaviours, but we are getting there. We only practice loose lead walking when I have enough time to take things slowly and stop as often as we need to to get him controlling himself and working with rather than against me. At first I treat behaviours I like, associate them with a cue word and only ask for what I'm confident I will get so he never gets to practice ignoring me or getting it wrong.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Bryski said:


> Hutch6
> Thanks for all your advice, i will try putting things into practice. I have another question for you if thats ok. I bought a longer lead, with the intention of getting him more used to the lead. I have spent the last two nights trying to correct his pulling by changing direction and giving a short sharp tug on the lead and saying heal. When i first get to the park, we get out of the car and he starts off pulling the lead for a few minutes at first and then stops and gets on with his walk. After walking for a while i let him off and play with him with his ball / frisbie. When i put him back on the lead, his grabbing of the lead and pulling becomes much worse, i tried to correct with sharp little tugs and saying no, but he gets more angry to the point of jumping up to bite and growling etc (quite nasty). Usually if i get hold of his collar he will stop until i let him go again. This is hard work and very stressful. To the point i cant wait to get him back in the car. I am probably doing this wrong, but please help, as my sanity is quickly deteriorating.
> 
> P.S. Can i send him to you for a week and you bring him back as a model pouch. Lol
> ...


Ha ha ha I'd love to have him for a week.

Hutch.


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Thanks Hutch, i will give you a quick call if thats ok.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Of course it's ok.


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Hi Hutch
Do you know which shops sell skinners dog food? he's not so keen on the food ive just bought. Skinners looks like a good price.


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## gsmith86 (May 24, 2012)

The most important thing we have learnt after owning a collie puppy is that they are huge attention seekers. We were told by a behaviourist that collies often have to be trained very differently to other breeds as they are so intelligent. We were told to completely ignore any unwated behaviour as collies will do anything for attention, even if that attention is being told off. Our collie wee'd on my boyfriends foot when he was ignoring her, she would rather be told off than be ignored. Eventually they will stop the behaviour if they get nothing from it. If they get attention from a behaviour they are likely to carry on. 

Don't be disheartened though we had a lot of problems with our collie when she was a pup, she was an absolute nightmare, but now she is fantastic. She is still a bit of an attention seeker but we know how to react to her now and she soon stops when knows she will get nothing from it.


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

You can get Skinners ( on line ) from Pet Supermarket.


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Thanks Bobbie, will get it from where you said. Nice to see there is light at the end of the tunnel GSmith. Thanks for you support.


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## hahgiwoofa (Jun 5, 2012)

Oh Lord!!!

NOT BAKERS!!!!!!!!

too many additives. We feed our Milburns which seems to be ok.

I think this is just par for the course with Collies, We've just rescued a 6 months old collie from the RSPCA, and he too is going thru the nipping and jumping phase. We're just being firm with him, pushing him down with a firm 'no' and ladeling on the 'hurt' when he does it so he gets the message nipping = someone hurt, fun stops.

hope the neutering thing isn't too true though, the RSPCA neutered him 2 weeks before we reserved him so hoping he won't be nuts forever!!


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Hi
This is what my pup is doing when im in the garden, please click the link below:

angry benji - YouTube

Otherwise in the house, he can be really soft?

Any advice would be great.

Did the video so you could get a true pic.

Thanks


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2012)

Bryski said:


> Hi
> This is what my pup is doing when im in the garden, please click the link below:
> 
> angry benji - YouTube
> ...


LOL! Thats a bratty puppy trying to get you to play with him! He wanted you to chase him back 
If that were my pup, Id use that energy towards some structured training, where the reward is getting to play with me.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Video looks to me like he's trying to initiate play. My Rupert used to do the same sort of thing only instead of barking he'd be growling his head off.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Exactly like my pup but we get added growls and jumps. Sorry but did laugh at vid, so typical of many puppies


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

Have you tried to get him to retrieve a ball or frisbee just I think he needs to know you will play with him at times once he brings the ball back then you can work on the sit and wait for me to play.


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## alyssa_liss (May 4, 2009)

thats him trying to get you to play , ive not read full thread. but collies need lots of training and mental sitmulation other wise they get bored. 

do you do any training with him ?or take him to dog classes ?


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Bryski said:


> Thanks for your replies - is there any particular training i should be doing to stimulate him more, other than the normal. I am planning on taking him to agility training soon when it starts.
> 
> Thanks


Just a quick post as off out, will come back and go into more detail if needed but in short:

1. Give him a suitable outlet for his herding. Workers need to work:
Celebrating Urban Sheepdogs - YouTube

2. Teach him to settle. Collies will work all day if they had it their way, until their limbs can take no more. They need to be taught to settle down and be rewarded for inactivity too. A key life skill:
Parking your dog - The Adults are Talking - YouTube

Give him a place he can retreat to, to settle in. Crates are good. Make it a nice place to go and reward him for inactivity there (can reward with stuffed kong, hooves etc):
Crate Games - YouTube
dog training- how to purse train / crate train a dog - YouTube
Capturing Calmness- help for hyper dogs-dog training - YouTube

Working sheepdogs on farms aren't on the go 24/7- they work the sheep a couple of times a week, daily if they are lucky. The rest of the time they spend mooching around the farm, often keeping their eye out for any situations that may warrant collie intervention  But they do learn to settle and just watch the world go by. 
Urban collies often meet constant activity and this can be stressful for them. 

3. Long walks are fine. But sometimes you can overexercise a collie- you may end up with a very fit dog who isn't mentally stimulated and never stops going. My working sheepdog is walked for an hour daily, he works (herds) most days for 20-30 mins and he does agility training and/or clicker training twice a week. The rest of the time he spends mooching and watching the world go by (usually by choice sunbathing in the garden or inside in his crate- the door is left open so he can retreat there whenever he wants).

Mental stimulation is important. Have you heard of clicker training? BCs are very operant dogs and thrive working with their person. Teaching him useful tricks would be good fun, will mental stimulate him, build on your relationship, be useful at home and be cool to show off when you have visitors round. 
I taught my dog to shut doors, load the washing machine, put stuff in the bin etc... As well as more stuff like "begging" (balancing in a sit, with front paws raised), limping (limps with one front paw raised), roll over, jump through my arms etc...
The possibilities are endless. 

There is probably lots more I could add but the above ideas should help.

Forget the pack-leader stuff. Dominance is a very outdated theory. Being a "leader" is fine, but you have to be a kind and fair one. Dominance tends to encourage bullying and misdiagnosis of dogs, making them out to be trying to assert themselves and "take over the world"- this is simply anthromorphism. 
Humans are obsessed with power, not dogs.

Teach him to behave appropriately by being patient and positive and you will have a happy dog who enjoys working and interacting with his person. 

Good luck


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

LOl that video made me laugh. Our old Collie, Bess [R.I.P] used to do this when we wen tin the garden with here, everyday, until she was about 14.
She was a lovely soft girly so we played it as a game and never had any other problems, she just really loved playing in the garden


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## Addychu (Apr 9, 2012)

lemmsy said:


> Just a quick post as off out, will come back and go into more detail if needed but in short:
> 
> 1. Give him a suitable outlet for his herding. Workers need to work:
> Celebrating Urban Sheepdogs - YouTube
> ...


This is exactly what i should try and do to my bfs collie.
He is so misbehaved... He will jump at me, trying to nip at my arms (playfully) he will grab my jeans, my feet... my shoes and nip nip nip.
He will bark and bark until you play with him, and if you stop he will misbehave... Now when he gets out into the front yard he will run straight down to the cars... and wont listen to me.
He will pull, he doesn't listen, i dont know how to train him as he eats every food under the sun!
I do try, but its my bfs mother that looks after him, she will feed him liver daily, cheese... anything he wants. He hates dog treats, foods.

Just last week i took him out for a walk, felt ill and had to come home, but it took an hour for him to get on his lead... and i had to have a guy who past by to literally jump on him so i could take him home, i dont know what to do anymore- i love dogs but im beginning to not ant to take him out, or anything. He even poos in the house, i try to take him out 30 mins after he eats but im beginning to lose patience.

Someone help pleaseee :[ I try to train him, with the simple things like calming down, eating well, if he misbehaves i will tell him off, when he jumps at cars, poos where he shouldnt etc but im the only one doing it and the mother will do the opposite, and then it all is forgotten!


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

Addychu said:


> This is exactly what i should try and do to my bfs collie.
> He is so misbehaved... He will jump at me, trying to nip at my arms (playfully) he will grab my jeans, my feet... my shoes and nip nip nip.
> He will bark and bark until you play with him, and if you stop he will misbehave... Now when he gets out into the front yard he will run straight down to the cars... and wont listen to me.
> He will pull, he doesn't listen, i dont know how to train him as he eats every food under the sun!
> ...


don't have time to type much as just now - but I'd do the opposite of what you're doing just now. Don't tell him off for doing things you don't want him to do - that will just let him know that he doesn't like being around you. Instead try to catch behaviours that you DO want and praise and treat so he learns that you are the source of all good things and that pleasing you is really profitable for him.

Make sure he know what he should be doing - don't just expect him to guess what behaviours please you, tell him when he's got it right. If different people are expecting him to do different things then he's going to be confused - confused collies quite often decide that they won't do what people tell them until the people can get their act together and sort themselves out.

Collies are usually pretty smart dogs - if you are sure that he knows what's expected of him then you need to look at why he's not doing it. If he's been shouted at in the past when he's tried but misunderstood then he's not going to be in any hurry to try for you in the future.

Do remember that some collies will only work for one person - not all collies are like that but a lot of them don't agree with lots of people trying to be the boss - it's not defiance - it's instinct as working sheepdogs take instruction only from their own master especially when you have half a dozen men and 20-30 sheepdogs all moving a large flock, the dog needs to know who to obey so it's natural to them just to have one master.


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Just now taking a toy out with me and so far so good. You were all right, it seems like he just wants to play. Thanks for your help.


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## Bryski (May 29, 2012)

Just wanted to say a big thank you for all the people that have given me help and advice, its a rare thing nowadays finding people so helpful. So again.
Many Thanks


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## hahgiwoofa (Jun 5, 2012)

good luck

Let us know how u get on, as a fellow Collie owner I'm quite interested in what's working for others


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