# breeding shar pei



## cjamchats (Aug 29, 2009)

i hav e a chocolate shar pei 6 months old and has just had her 1st season. She is perfect breeding stock and is good enough to show. The problem is she has had to have her skin tacked above her eyes to prevent her lids from rolling into her eyes. She has not had any surgery but when i informed the vet i was hoping to breed from my shar pei, she was mortified. She said my dog has a 'generic disorder' and i shouldn't breed from her, i argued that shar pei have problems with theirs eyes because of the excess skin on their heads and face. the vet seems to think i would find it difficult to get a good breeder to stud my bitch when the time comes. i am now very confused i dont know what to do as i really wanted to breed from her, however, she is our pet 1st and foremost and we love her dearly. can anyone give me some advice?????


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

You shouldnt breed from a dog that has genetic defects. end of. At 6months she is just a baby anyway, just enjoy her as a pet.


----------



## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

How do you know she is perfect breeding stock?? She isnt an adult yet so you dont know what the 'complete' dog will look like. Your vet is right about the eyes of your Pei - I wouldnt breed from it either if it's eyes have been tacked. I have a Rott who has Entropian and it is the most miserable of illnesses for dogs to live with - mine has had three ops so far - you dont know whether your girlie will need operations yet. My vet told me that Peis are the dogs that he does the most eye ops on. The vet is also correct in thinking that a good, reputable breeder wont allow their dog to be used on your bitch - they usually want particular lines for their dogs,, on health tested bitches that are excellent examples of the breed.
Why are you wanting to breed?


----------



## Hb-mini (May 20, 2009)

I agree with the above.

If you dog has had problem with her eyes and this is a genetic problem then she shouldnt be bred from. You will have to enjoy her as your loving family pet.


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

I agree with Savahl!!

Good vets will often know little and care little for breed specifications but they will care for the health of a dog so if your vet is discouraging you from breeding you should probably listen to her!

Some breeds are bred in ways that end up being very unhealthy for the animal, promoting body disformities and serious health problems and I would not want to promote that trend.


----------



## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

cjamchats said:


> i hav e a chocolate shar pei 6 months old and has just had her 1st season. She is perfect breeding stock and is good enough to show. The problem is she has had to have her skin tacked above her eyes to prevent her lids from rolling into her eyes. She has not had any surgery but when i informed the vet i was hoping to breed from my shar pei, she was mortified. She said my dog has a 'generic disorder' and i shouldn't breed from her, i argued that shar pei have problems with theirs eyes because of the excess skin on their heads and face. the vet seems to think i would find it difficult to get a good breeder to stud my bitch when the time comes. i am now very confused i dont know what to do as i really wanted to breed from her, however, she is our pet 1st and foremost and we love her dearly. can anyone give me some advice?????


Maybe try showing her? I personally am of the mindset that both parents should be titled and health tested before even considering breeding. 6 months is way too young to be even thinking about breeding your dog. Your girl should not be bred as she does have a genetic defect.

*Entropion*
The Shar-Pei are 1 of 14 breeds that can have this condition. This is where the eyelid rolls in towards the eye, rubbing against the cornea and irritating this sensitive structure. Watery eyes, infection, even a corneal ulcer, can occur. Surgical correction is required. *Dogs with this condition should not be bred, as a genetic component is suspected. *

Shar-Pei's must also be tested for thyroid problems. They also can suffer from malocclusion, tight lip syndrome, patellar luxation, carpal laxity, stenotic nares, hip dysplasia, Cutaneous Mucinosis, Chronic Inflammatory Bowel Disease, and bloat. There are many more, but most of the above can be tested for or you can search through your dog's pedigree to determine if any of her ancestors suffered from any of the above disorders.

Please just spay your girl and enjoy her as a loving pet. There are so many problems with this breed, there is no need for anyone else to contribute to the fact. Possibly get in touch with a reputable shar-pei breeder in your area who would be willing to mentor you and sell you a show prospect dog at a later date. Showing is an excellent way to learn whether or not you should breed your animal. You are getting the opinion of several other people who are well known within the breed.


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

Unfortunatly the shar pei is so riddled with genetic defects that its become very hard for good breeders.

A good breeder will only breed from healthy stock without genetic defects.

Not sure if your aware but your girl shouldnt be bred until her 3rd season minimum and i think its preferably around 3 ish.

Its life though that many dogs are bred by, naieve, inexperienced or just down right irresponsible owners because "they" think they are good enough.

A dog needs to be judged breeding quality by someone with alot of experience in the breed, and certainly a dog with a genetic defect shouldnt ever be bred from.

Personally i would spey your girl, and then look at getting another girl in the future with the hopes that she will be of breeding quality. You can increase your chances by going to a very good breeder, and waiting for the right pup, but even then you will have no guarentees. Noone can judge a 8week old pup to be a good breed quality bitch.

With regards to the eyes for your girl... if she has had entropian then she is not show quality - here is the bit about the eyes in the standard.



> Eyes:
> Dark, Medium sized almond shaped, with frowning expression. Amber and lighter colours permissable in paler shades. Function of eyeball or lid in no way disturbed by surrounding skin folds or hair. Any sign of irritation of eyeball, conjunctiva, or eyelids is highly undesirable. Free from entropion


----------



## cjamchats (Aug 29, 2009)

Jo P said:


> How do you know she is perfect breeding stock?? She isnt an adult yet so you dont know what the 'complete' dog will look like. Your vet is right about the eyes of your Pei - I wouldnt breed from it either if it's eyes have been tacked. I have a Rott who has Entropian and it is the most miserable of illnesses for dogs to live with - mine has had three ops so far - you dont know whether your girlie will need operations yet. My vet told me that Peis are the dogs that he does the most eye ops on. The vet is also correct in thinking that a good, reputable breeder wont allow their dog to be used on your bitch - they usually want particular lines for their dogs,, on health tested bitches that are excellent examples of the breed.
> Why are you wanting to breed?


well because im interested in breeding this breed of dog! thing is there is nothing wrong with her eyes and the tacks are not on her eyes they are on her cheeks, the parents did not have any problems with their eyes and i have asked the breeder if she has had any other reported problems with the rest of the litter. i just think people are quick to jump to conclusions because they can see she has 2 stiches in each cheek


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

cjamchats said:


> well because im interested in breeding this breed of dog! thing is there is nothing wrong with her eyes and the tacks are not on her eyes they are on her cheeks, the parents did not have any problems with their eyes and i have asked the breeder if she has had any other reported problems with the rest of the litter. i just think people are quick to jump to conclusions because they can see she has 2 stiches in each cheek


I'm not judging on anything other than the information you have provided. Your vet sound very sensible. You dog has a hereditary illness, entropion is horrible, and there is absoloutly no way you should breed with the risk of that being passed on.

Are you aware, that if you breed her and do not disclose the entropion you could be sued by an new puppy owners?


----------



## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Is the breeder happy for you to breed from her? Did she not come with a contract and endorsements? I'm not jumping to any conclusions - hence I'm asking questions


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

I don't understand - you said



> The problem is she has had to have her skin tacked above her eyes to prevent her lids from rolling into her eyes.


now you are saying they are not tacked but she has tacks in her cheeks 

Why did she have tacks in her cheeks?

Having said that, any dog requiring surgery to correct an inherited problem should never be bred from. Of course they are by irresponsible breeders and that's why we have so many problems today. How much did you pay for your surgery? are you going to pay for this for all the puppy owners if you knowingly breed from her? Not only that, but you are doing the breed no favours by continuing to breed from a bitch with problems.

At 6 months old, there is no way you can tell that she is breeding quality - she is not fully developed yet. I don't know what health tests sharpei require, but she certainly won't be old enough to be hip scored.

I agree with cassandra. Forget about breeding from her and if your heart is set on breeding, then go along to some shows and find yourself a reputable breeder. You can even show your girl - you will get some unbiased opinions - although you will need to write to the KC and get permission first as she has had an operation.


----------



## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

Just recently, a trial went on regarding a German Sheperd puppy.

This couple bred their bitch and sold on the 12 puppies to loving homes. They neglected to test their bitch for hip dysplasia and were sued when a 6 month old puppy (purchased for work prospect) was found to be dysplastic. Each of the puppies were then tested and the breeder was responsible for over £25,000 in damages and future vet care for the animals.

This is just one example as to why you should only breed the healthiest and absolutely best examples of a particular breed.


----------



## cjamchats (Aug 29, 2009)

Jo P said:


> Is the breeder happy for you to breed from her? Did she not come with a contract and endorsements? I'm not jumping to any conclusions - hence I'm asking questions


thanks for all the comments but i have never bred dogs before hence the reason i am asking for advice regarding the recommendations from the vet. i think i will re think the situation when she is fully grown and re assessed by the vet. I wouldn't go against the advice of the vet or other breeders so i think at this stage and being new to the forum, its a bit unfair quoting legalities to me..... but thanks anyway


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

Cassandra - you're right. I've noticed a few cases like these. Puppy owners taking their breeders to court because they have developed a condition and no health tests were carried out. It's one thing to carry out all health tests and have a puppy with a fault, but to not bother with health tests or worse, breed from a bitch/ dog with problems is not only morally wrong, but increasingly seen as wrong in the eyes of the law.

As more and more people realise the importance of breeding from health tested animals, I can only guess that the number taking legal action against breeders will increase - which can only be a good thing.


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

cjamchats - I understand how upsetting this is, you had your heart set on breeding your girl, however, sometimes these things happen which you cannot plan for. I don't know how good a breeder your breeder is - there are reputable breeders and then there are 'breeders'. Sometimes things like this happen to reputable breeders too, we are dealing with living creatures, so there are no guarantees, but the responsible and ethical will remove a dog with defects from a breeding program. With some this could have been years of research and breeding down the drain - with you, it is a case of not being able to breed from your pet. I do feel for you, but sadly these things happen.


----------



## cjamchats (Aug 29, 2009)

Dundee said:


> I don't understand - you said
> 
> now you are saying they are not tacked but she has tacks in her cheeks
> 
> ...


she has one tack in both cheeks and one above her eyebrow - if i split my head open and had to have stiches thats not an operation - my dog has had this done as a preventative cause - as my question seems to have outraged so many people i think i'll wait, then re


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> she has one tack in both cheeks and one above her eyebrow - if i split my head open and had to have stiches thats not an operation - my dog has had this done as a preventative cause


I think you are misunderstanding the situation. It has nothing to do with the fact that your dog has stiches, but the reason why she has stitches because she has a genetically inherited fault. It is not simply preventative (which is probably why your vet was horrified you were going to breed from her), it is because she has a fault. There are plenty of sharpei that do not require this surgery - and it is those that are the ones who should be bred from.


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

I have just read the whole of this thread....i FINALLY totally understand why members are so passionate about breeds......i am the owner of an 8yr old Sharpei.....had him since he was 6weeks of age.....we paid £1000 for him......when we picked him up he was the most gorgeous wrinkly pup i had ever seen......sadly we now have an 8yr old sharpei....firstly let me mention the eyes which the op has mentioned......our sharpei has had his eyes lids pinned back numerous times...he has very limited sight now because of the eye lids rolling in....they have rubbed his eye resulting in loss of sight....his eyes are now deformed....he is now prone to eye infections and will eventually completely loose his sight.....i have NEVER met a sharpei that has not had some kind of problem with their eyes.......


----------



## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

cjamchats said:


> thanks for all the comments but i have never bred dogs before hence the reason i am asking for advice regarding the recommendations from the vet. i think i will re think the situation when she is fully grown and re assessed by the vet. I wouldn't go against the advice of the vet or other breeders so i think at this stage and being new to the forum, its a bit unfair quoting legalities to me..... but thanks anyway


At least you are asking questions and doing the research BEFORE you dive head long into breeding from your girl. You have chosen quite a specialised breed as a beginner - it doesnt mean it cant be done - but you need a top notch mentor to help guide you along if you are going into breeding - this might mean having someone be ultra critical of your girl when she is old enough and finding out she isnt good enough for the job - so then you'd have to go in search of a well bred puppy and start all over again. Why dont you go along to some shows and have a chat with some of the exhibitors there - ask them the pit falls of breeding Peis - you can go on Champdogs to find out which Pei breeders are successful in the ring and take your research from there - I've never known a dog owner yet who cant talk for hours about their chosen breed so I'm sure they'd not mind if you gave them a ring and asked for advice.


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Dundee said:


> I think you are misunderstanding the situation. It has nothing to do with the fact that your dog has stiches, but the reason why she has stitches because she has a genetically inherited fault. It is not simply preventative (which is probably why your vet was horrified you were going to breed from her), it is because she has a fault. There are plenty of sharpei that do not require this surgery - and it is those that are the ones who should be bred from.


sadly Dundee you are very much mistaken....many many sharpei have problems with their eyes.......i have spoken and met many many owners over the past 8yrs......sharpei's horrify my vet.....sharpei's without eye problems are very very rare......


----------



## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

As with any dog, you cannot know if they are good breeding stock until they reach full maturity, in some dogs this can be 12 months, in others it can be longer 18-24 months. However, you have posted that she has had to have corrective surgery for a possible genetic fault. With this in mind, I would be seriously concerned that she would pass that fault on to her offspring and would remove all chances of any litter being produced by having her speyed.

Maybe I am the only one here who is old enough to remember this but many moons ago I saw two shar peis on Blue Peter, they were there to educate us kids on the breed and to let us know that they were almost extinct in this country... only 8 dogs in total at that time. With this in mind, I think it's quite safe to say that a hell of a lot of inbreeding has been going on to improve the numbers to what they are today. There are going to be a lot of genetic faults in this breed because of this. Don't get me wrong here, I understand that a number of dogs could have been imported to help with the breeding programme but anyone considering breeding these dogs should be researching the pedigrees right back as far as possible to see just where they have come from.


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

I feel i also must add the eyes are not the only common problem with Sharpei's.....the skin is a major major problem.....many many sharpei's have alergies.....our sharpei is on steroids he has been on them for around 5yrs...i am fully aware this will shorten his life....another common problem.....ears.....because they are bred with such small ears they have problems....because their ear canals are so small.....all this needs to be taken into consideration........


----------



## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

cjamchats said:


> thanks for all the comments but i have never bred dogs before hence the reason i am asking for advice regarding the recommendations from the vet. i think i will re think the situation when she is fully grown and re assessed by the vet. I wouldn't go against the advice of the vet or other breeders so i think at this stage and being new to the forum, its a bit unfair quoting legalities to me..... but thanks anyway





cjamchats said:


> she has one tack in both cheeks and one above her eyebrow - if i split my head open and had to have stiches thats not an operation - my dog has had this done as a preventative cause - as my question seems to have outraged so many people i think i'll wait, then re


I am truly sorry you feel this way...



Dundee said:


> I think you are misunderstanding the situation. It has nothing to do with the fact that your dog has stiches, but the reason why she has stitches because she has a genetically inherited fault. It is not simply preventative (which is probably why your vet was horrified you were going to breed from her), it is because she has a fault. There are plenty of sharpei that do not require this surgery - and it is those that are the ones who should be bred from.


Agreed.

Genetic faults do not go away with time. They are passed onto offspring regardless. Please just spay your girl now and let her live a long happy life as your pet and companion.

If you really want to get into breeding, please find a mentor and someone who has a long standing in the Shar-Pei world. Having a breed mentor can mean the difference between a successful career in the breed and being hated by all of the upstanding members of the breed community.

A breed mentor will not only hold your hand through the proper rearing of your show dog, but will also help you match the right stud to your bitch and help you through the whole whelping process.

A breed mentor is invaluable, and I wish you would please do the right thing for both your girl and the Shar-Pei breed in general.


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> sadly Dundee you are very much mistaken....many many sharpei have problems with their eyes.......i have spoken and met many many owners over the past 8yrs......sharpei's horrify my vet.....sharpei's without eye problems are very very rare......


Don't get me wrong, I'm aware there are many, but that doesn't mean there aren't nor does it mean it is ok to breed from those who have problems.


----------



## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Benson, my boy with Entropian also suffers from Folliculitis and is on Medrone for life - some dogs just have a rough time of it dont they and thats why I get so passionate about not breeding from poor/mediocre stock. I know all Entropian isnt genetic but I feel it is in Bensons case and obviously you do in your dogs case too.


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

cjamchats said:


> i hav e a chocolate shar pei 6 months old and has just had her 1st season. She is perfect breeding stock and is good enough to show. The problem is she has had to have her skin tacked above her eyes to prevent her lids from rolling into her eyes. She has not had any surgery but when i informed the vet i was hoping to breed from my shar pei, she was mortified. She said my dog has a 'generic disorder' and i shouldn't breed from her, i argued that shar pei have problems with theirs eyes because of the excess skin on their heads and face. the vet seems to think i would find it difficult to get a good breeder to stud my bitch when the time comes. i am now very confused i dont know what to do as i really wanted to breed from her, however, she is our pet 1st and foremost and we love her dearly. can anyone give me some advice?????


i think your first post says it all really.....you have said she is perfect breeding stock...and is good enough to show.....yet at 6months old she has already had her eyes and cheeks pinned.....honestly if i was you i seriously would not even think about breeding her.....i would be more concerned about her and anymore health issues she will have....i think you may soon realise there is a lot more to sharpei's than a cute wrinkly dog.....and sadly it isnt all good......good luck with her .....


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm aware there are many, but that doesn't mean there aren't nor does it mean it is ok to breed from those who have problems.


you will be very hard pushed to find a sharpei without eye problems of some form.....and as sharpei's are a breed very close to my heart i am aware having own a sharpei a sharpei with problems should not be bred from....im not very clued up with other breeds of dogs....but Sharpei's are a breed i have looked into for the past 8yrs.....


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Jo P said:


> Benson, my boy with Entropian also suffers from Folliculitis and is on Medrone for life - some dogs just have a rough time of it dont they and thats why I get so passionate about not breeding from poor/mediocre stock. I know all Entropian isnt genetic but I feel it is in Bensons case and obviously you do in your dogs case too.


My sharpei has had over £11,000 in vets bills.....he has never had a stage in his life when he hasnt been on medication.......i have seen my dogs banging his head against our wall because his eyes have been so painfull.....he rubs his skin bare until it bleeds and is raw.....he has had kidney problems due to the steroids.....whats worse is our sharpei isnt even that wrinkly.....the ones with mases of wrinkles have more problems......
I am aware the kc are going to change the breed standard for sharpei's....it desperately needs changing.......


----------



## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

*Animallover111 *
Oh dear, my vet did tell me once to not touch a Sharpei with a bargepole as they have so many genetic issues requiring vet attention but £11000 in vets fees!!
You have certainly lived up to your name there.
*
cjamchats*
I think in breeding these dogs you have to consider that some owners of your potential puppies are not prepared nor can afford to spend such colossal sums in sorting them out, so your puppies that you have brought up and cared for are going to have very short lives with owners who cannot or will not pay for prolonged veterinary care so they will be pts or end up in rescue as ill dogs. Sick dogs needing vet support will not find homes easily in rescue either. 
Some will spend their days in misery with hardly any vet care, once their cute puppy stage is over.
Only a few will receive proper vet care from concerned owners.

Your dog is only 6 months old and requires "tacks" surely some part of you must consider that as being ridiculous. A puppy should not come into this life and require cosmetic surgery to prevent it losing its sight, that in itself is bad enough but wanting to further its genes by breeding from it to place that misery on to more puppies is not really right.

JMO


----------



## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

I was watching a dog borstel the other week and the Shar Pei on there had Shar Pei fever. The trainer, can't think if his name but not Mic, said he thinks the breeding of Shar Pei's should be banned apart from the very very healthy ones.


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> *Animallover111 *
> Oh dear, my vet did tell me once to not touch a Sharpei with a bargepole as they have so many genetic issues requiring vet attention but £11000 in vets fees!!
> You have certainly lived up to your name there.
> *
> ...


To be honest growing up having dogs we never had them insured....but we got our sharpei insured straight away....and i am so glad we did....i honestly do not know what we would of done otherwise......we have stayed with the same vet....although we have seen specailists.... our vet has been fantastic...though i will never own another sharpei again....i know many owners who say the same...it really is a very cruel breed of dog.....


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

kayz said:


> I was watching a dog borstel the other week and the Shar Pei on there had Shar Pei fever. The trainer, can't think if his name but not Mic, said he thinks the breeding of Shar Pei's should be banned apart from the very very healthy ones.


my thoughts exactly.....and many other sharpei owners will say the same.....more and more sharpei's are turning up in rescues.....in the usa sharpei's are everywhere......the amount in shelters is unreal over there....the sad thing is people want them as cute fashion statements....i also think people forget they are also very temprimental....they were fighting dogs...and still are in china.....they are know for not been socialable....they often dont like other dogs...and should never be left with children....plus then if you have a sharpei with 101 problems this can make them even more temprimental......


----------



## Inca's Mum (Apr 9, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> My sharpei has had over £11,000 in vets bills.....he has never had a stage in his life when he hasnt been on medication.......i have seen my dogs banging his head against our wall because his eyes have been so painfull.....he rubs his skin bare until it bleeds and is raw.....he has had kidney problems due to the steroids.....whats worse is our sharpei isnt even that wrinkly.....the ones with mases of wrinkles have more problems......
> I am aware the kc are going to change the breed standard for sharpei's....it desperately needs changing.......


You totally could've funded the wedding :001_tt2:

I wouldn't breed your bitch, just keep her as a pet and if she is 'showing quality' then why don't you just get into showing with her?


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

To the OP,Are you aware of the Kennel Club's stance on tacking ?
Skin Tacking - The Kennel Club

Skin Tacking

03-Apr-08

The Kennel Club has been made aware of the procedure of skin tacking in young puppies, in breeds such as the Shar Pei. It wishes to see an end to the need for this practice. In the meantime, the General Committee of the Kennel Club has agreed that it is a procedure that, for the purposes of Kennel Club Regulations, alters the natural conformation of the dog.

The Kennel Club has consulted with the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, which has now agreed that this procedure may be notified to the Kennel Club. Veterinary surgeons will be asked to report such surgery to the Kennel Club, by virtue of the client having given permission to do so under Kennel Club Rules for Registration. Exhibitors are also required, on show entry forms, to declare that no dog is being shown where such alteration has been made without the relevant permission to show being granted by the Kennel Club.

*It follows therefore that any dog which has undergone skin tacking after the date of this announcement may not be exhibited until its owners have applied for, and received, permission to show from the Kennel Club. It is unlikely that such permission will be granted.
*
Dogs which underwent skin tacking before the date of this announcement, will continue as previously to be permitted to be shown without application.

As your bitch is only 6 months old you will need to inform them of the tacking she's had done if you wish to show her as it alter's the conformation.


----------



## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> i also think people forget they are also very temprimental....they were fighting dogs...and still are in china.....they are know for not been socialable....they often dont like other dogs...and should never be left with children....plus then if you have a sharpei with 101 problems this can make them even more temprimental......


That was also what my vet said too. Cranky was her word for them.


----------



## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> To be honest growing up having dogs we never had them insured....but we got our sharpei insured straight away....and i am so glad we did....i honestly do not know what we would of done otherwise......we have stayed with the same vet....although we have seen specailists.... our vet has been fantastic...though i will never own another sharpei again....i know many owners who say the same...it really is a very cruel breed of dog.....


Wow, what insurance company are you with?

Mine will only pay out £6000 max for each condition.


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> To the OP,Are you aware of the Kennel Club's stance on tacking ?
> Skin Tacking - The Kennel Club
> 
> Skin Tacking
> ...


Great post....with regards to showing...my worry is people are breeding Sharpei's with more and more wrinkles....people are buying these sharpei's not realising the health problems....people seem to think the more wrinkles the better bred it is......the more wrinkles the pups have quicker they sell and for silly amounts of money.....its not until these pups are a 6 months plus that the real health problems start...i am amazed the op's dog at 6months old has already needed her eyes and cheeks pinned....i must also stress i have never let our sharpei mate.....at 18months old our vets recommended he was castrated at two years old he was....we were offered stupid amounts of money to breed him....which we politely replied NO....


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Wow, what insurance company are you with?
> 
> Mine will only pay out £6000 max for each condition.


We are with pet plan....the vet recommended them to use when we first got Vaunny.....we were worried about two years ago as one day we turned up at the vets....and a guy was there from pet plan...we thought they were going to stop paying out....but luckily because we had been paying the vet directly then claim our money back...they had only gone to arrange direct payment...so we no longer had to pay the vets....he has £11,000 for all his treatment not just his eyes...


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> they were fighting dogs...and still are in china......


I've got to correct you here, Shar-Pei were originally general purpose farm dogs used for hunting, protecting stock and guarding the home and family.

They were later used for fighting, but were not bred for fighting in mind.



> The breed developed in the southern provinces of China as a working companion of farmers and peasants who needed a cattle herder, guardian, and hunting helpmate. His loose skin, nettlesome coat, and small ears protected him in battles, characteristics that unfortunately gained him favor as a fighting dog.


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Nicci said:


> I've got to correct you here, Shar-Pei were originally general purpose farm dogs used for hunting, protecting stock and guarding the home and family.
> 
> They were later used for fighting, but were not bred for fighting in mind.


I pointed out they were used for fighting as people often do not realise this.....people are often surprised they have been used for fighting....i have mentioned this before our sharpei had actually been bred for illegal fighting.....he has been bred back to a more truer sharpei...without the wrinkles.....Years ago in China Sharpei's were nearly extinct as the public were not allowed them to be kept as pets....they actually became very rare....i am aware fighting with sharpei's is still very common in china.....


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

I would think more people are aware than you would happen to think, I just had to point out that they weren't created with fighting bred in mind, most people I would think wouldn't know their original purpose and would only know about their ''fighting'' history.


----------



## WalterKitty (Aug 16, 2009)

Nicci said:


> I would think more people are aware than you would happen to think, I just had to point out that they weren't created with fighting bred in mind, most people I would think wouldn't know their original purpose and would only know about their ''fighting'' history.


as a non dog person i did know their origin but i had no idea they potentially have so many health problems its heartbreaking.i do agree with others who say you can have no idea if a 6 month old is perfect breeding stock though.
by the sounds of it breeding of shar peis,if it is to be done at all,should be left to those with the best experience and reputation.


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

I have relatives that show them & none of their dogs have any of the problems mentioned..Like so many breeds I suppose, there is good and bad.


----------



## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

If I had a pound for every breeder I have spoke to who have *never* had problems with their line or breed, I would be an extremely rich person indeed.


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> If I had a pound for every breeder I have spoke to who have *never* had problems with their line or breed, I would be an extremely rich person indeed.


I can honestly say they've never had their dogs tacked and only ever been to the vets for vacc's/boosters..their temperaments are also bombproof, exactly what it says on the can..

Taken from the KC website


> Temperament
> Calm, independent, very affectionate, and devoted to people.


Now I never said they bred them did I?


----------



## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> cjamchats[/B]
> I think in breeding these dogs you have to consider that some owners of your potential puppies are not prepared nor can afford to spend such colossal sums in sorting them out, so your puppies that you have brought up and cared for are going to have very short lives with owners who cannot or will not pay for prolonged veterinary care so they will be pts or end up in rescue as ill dogs. Sick dogs needing vet support will not find homes easily in rescue either.
> Some will spend their days in misery with hardly any vet care, once their cute puppy stage is over.
> Only a few will receive proper vet care from concerned owners.
> ...


I agree with this! OP Im sorry but i woulnt breed from your bitch..She is just 6months old so how you can say she is perfect is a joke really...we have had bitches/dogs be perfect until 2 years then there mouth ect have gone off..or they have had a bad mouth that has corrected you can never tell.

This is a breed that already suffers alot of problems...I would just keep your girl as a pet..


----------



## cjamchats (Aug 29, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> my thoughts exactly.....and many other sharpei owners will say the same.....more and more sharpei's are turning up in rescues.....in the usa sharpei's are everywhere......the amount in shelters is unreal over there....the sad thing is people want them as cute fashion statements....i also think people forget they are also very temprimental....they were fighting dogs...and still are in china.....they are know for not been socialable....they often dont like other dogs...and should never be left with children....plus then if you have a sharpei with 101 problems this can make them even more temprimental......


i think sometimes we can read too much about this breed of dog, my dog is very good natured and has a great temprement. I have children and she is great with them..... i think as dog is as good as you rear them to be honest


----------



## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

i just hope you have reconsider breeding from your bitch...for the reasons members have mentioned.....good luck with your sharpei....


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

cjamchats, you've got the input from some very experienced dog people answering your query. Unfortunately, when you ask these sort of questions on a forum, the answers can come across as judgemental, when really you're getting responses from those who care deeply about dogs, whatever breed, who want to steer you on the right course. 

Your girl is probably very lovely, and fulfills everything you wanted from owning a shar pei, but the problem is, when it comes to breeding there is an awful lot more to consider than just having pups. I don't know about health testing for shar peis, but I'm sure there will be some, and it won't be inexpensive; considering she's already had corrective surgery, you've got to ask whether it's worth doing this? Particularly after reading the post from SallyAnne regarding the KC's stance on corrective surgery. Health testing is a small part, and once you've got this information, you use that to go about looking at suitable dogs from lines that you like and think will match your bitch. 

If you'd like to look at breeding shar peis, why not research it more thoroughly and buy in a foundation bitch from suitable stock, and then see how she turns out? Everyone has to start from somewhere, but to get to where you want, you need to start off with the best possible material towards that aim.


----------



## Guest (Aug 31, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> cjamchats, you've got the input from some very experienced dog people answering your query. Unfortunately, when you ask these sort of questions on a forum, the answers can come across as judgemental, when really you're getting responses from those who care deeply about dogs, whatever breed, who want to steer you on the right course.
> 
> Your girl is probably very lovely, and fulfills everything you wanted from owning a shar pei, but the problem is, when it comes to breeding there is an awful lot more to consider than just having pups. I don't know about health testing for shar peis, but I'm sure there will be some, and it won't be inexpensive; considering she's already had corrective surgery, you've got to ask whether it's worth doing this? Particularly after reading the post from SallyAnne regarding the KC's stance on corrective surgery. Health testing is a small part, and once you've got this information, you use that to go about looking at suitable dogs from lines that you like and think will match your bitch.
> 
> If you'd like to look at breeding shar peis, why not research it more thoroughly and buy in a foundation bitch from suitable stock, and then see how she turns out? Everyone has to start from somewhere, but to get to where you want, you need to start off with the best possible material towards that aim.


completely agree!


----------



## vet-2-b (Sep 25, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> cjamchats, you've got the input from some very experienced dog people answering your query. Unfortunately, when you ask these sort of questions on a forum, the answers can come across as judgemental, when really you're getting responses from those who care deeply about dogs, whatever breed, who want to steer you on the right course.
> 
> Your girl is probably very lovely, and fulfills everything you wanted from owning a shar pei, but the problem is, when it comes to breeding there is an awful lot more to consider than just having pups. I don't know about health testing for shar peis, but I'm sure there will be some, and it won't be inexpensive; considering she's already had corrective surgery, you've got to ask whether it's worth doing this? Particularly after reading the post from SallyAnne regarding the KC's stance on corrective surgery. Health testing is a small part, and once you've got this information, you use that to go about looking at suitable dogs from lines that you like and think will match your bitch.
> 
> If you'd like to look at breeding shar peis, why not research it more thoroughly and buy in a foundation bitch from suitable stock, and then see how she turns out? Everyone has to start from somewhere, but to get to where you want, you need to start off with the best possible material towards that aim.


well put !!!


----------



## kazschow (Oct 23, 2008)

cjamchats said:


> she has one tack in both cheeks and one above her eyebrow - if i split my head open and had to have stiches thats not an operation - my dog has had this done as a preventative cause - as my question seems to have outraged so many people i think i'll wait, then re


I have two dogs that have both had entropian surgery, one done twice, this is a horrible painful debilitating condition, my boy before surgery went on to develop corneal ulcers, he became depressed, lathargic etc and was in a great deal of pain prior to correction.

No vet puts in tacs as a preventative, they're in because your dog HAS entropian, and they are hoping tacking will correct it as the head matures. The tacks themselves are very uncomfortable, my vet advised against having my boy tacked, and we opted to use lube in his eyes til he reached sceletal maturity.. this was done 5 times a day, and still he got ulcers!!! However my vet swore long term the discomfort he went through was less than having skn tacks.

As for breeding a dog with entropian, I personally would strongly ad vise against this. My breed chows are also very prone to this condition, it is aparently carried on two genes, so difficult to breed out, but knowingly using a dog with the condition, all be it a mild case, is in MHO culpable, and exceptionally irresponsibel.

FWIW, my chows will with great sadness most probably be my last, as the illnesses I have encountered, have been outrageous, and my dogs HAVE needlessly suffered over the years, I can't knowingly encourage this by buying another puppy or dog in my breed


----------



## kellogs1 (Sep 12, 2009)

wonder what reaction you would get if we made these kind of comments about a woman having children. I am of the opinion that if you want to breed from your bitch then you should. I am not an expert and do not proclaim to be but as long as you are sensible and are not creating a dire illness for your bitch or her pups then go ahead. you must make sure that you go into the breeding with eyes open and be prepared emotionally and financially. as long as the bitch and her pups are priority. all dogs now have some kind of defects and i personally blame organisation like the kennel club for this as some breeders have become obsessed with how their dogs should look, just because the KC say so! what a load of trollop!!! some people just want a dog because it is a companion and not a show piece. i have had many dogs in my time, some have been KC registered and some havent and they have all had their own health problems inherent or not. to be honest the dogs that i have had who have been KC registered have had the most problems!! work that one out!!


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2009)

> to be honest the dogs that i have had who have been KC registered have had the most problems!! work that one out!!


I worked it out! you went to bad breeders.. You know you can take them to court over it!..and rightly so..If its the breeders fault..


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> wonder what reaction you would get if we made these kind of comments about a woman having children.


Anyone who thinks breeding dogs and having children is the same, both ethically and practically, shouldn't even be considering breeding.



> I am of the opinion that if you want to breed from your bitch then you should.


Mmmm - unfortunately, those sorts of ideas are the cause of so many unwanted dogs sitting in rescue.


----------



## Ridgielover (Apr 16, 2008)

_"I am of the opinion that if you want to breed from your bitch then you should."_

Hmm - it's probably because you've bought puppies from people who have the same rather naive (and I also think very selfish!) opinion as you that you've ended up with dogs that have problems!

As an ethical and caring breeder, I am of the opinion that you should only breed from dogs that have proved their worth (either working or showing) and have had all the breed specific recommended health tests - and have outstanding temperaments.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Ridgielover said:


> _"I am of the opinion that if you want to breed from your bitch then you should."_
> 
> Hmm - it's probably because you've bought puppies from people who have the same rather naive (and I also think very selfish!) opinion as you that you've ended up with dogs that have problems!
> 
> As an ethical and caring breeder, I am of the opinion that you should only breed from dogs that have proved their worth (either working or showing) and have had all the breed specific recommended health tests - and have outstanding temperaments.


here here!


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

kellogs1 said:


> wonder what reaction you would get if we made these kind of comments about a woman having children. I am of the opinion that if you want to breed from your bitch then you should. I am not an expert and do not proclaim to be but as long as you are sensible and are not creating a dire illness for your bitch or her pups then go ahead. you must make sure that you go into the breeding with eyes open and be prepared emotionally and financially. as long as the bitch and her pups are priority. all dogs now have some kind of defects and i personally blame organisation like the kennel club for this as some breeders have become obsessed with how their dogs should look, just because the KC say so! what a load of trollop!!! some people just want a dog because it is a companion and not a show piece. i have had many dogs in my time, some have been KC registered and some havent and they have all had their own health problems inherent or not. to be honest the dogs that i have had who have been KC registered have had the most problems!! work that one out!!


I make it no secret that although I am pro health testing, I am also conscious that dogs are more than a set of clear results for the most part. But what you're suggesting is highly irresponsible and unethical, to breed from a bitch knowingly with a defect that might give pups an uncomfortable life and needing similar surgery to their dam? All dogs have always had some kind of *defect* and always will, there is no such thing as a genetically perfect dog, health tests are there so that we can make an informed, balanced and responsible decision. In this case the option is clear, this bitch has a defect that required surgery early in her life to correct it, to breed from her would be highly irresponsible.

You claim you're not an expert and then go on to make a recommendation regarding breeding because it's anybody's right to breed from a bitch? And then we wonder why rescues are full, well done you.


----------



## majortom (May 7, 2009)

Ridgielover said:


> _"I am of the opinion that if you want to breed from your bitch then you should."_
> 
> Hmm - it's probably because you've bought puppies from people who have the same rather naive (and I also think very selfish!) opinion as you that you've ended up with dogs that have problems!
> 
> As an ethical and caring breeder, I am of the opinion that you should only breed from dogs that have proved their worth (either working or showing) and have had all the breed specific recommended health tests - and have outstanding temperaments.


here here
great post
shar peis are not for the novice breeder
and not a easy dog to find the right homes for.
maybe the op should think what she will do if left with a litter of 7 or 8 pups
and no buyers.
it happens quite often nowadays


----------



## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

at 6 mths old i'd be enjoying the pup not thinking ahead to her having pups. shar peis have terrible health issues unless she is of outstanding breed quality and would enchance the breed gene pool IMO forget mating her and enjoy her as a pet.


----------



## kellogs1 (Sep 12, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But what you're suggesting is highly irresponsible and unethical, to breed from a bitch knowingly with a defect that might give pups an uncomfortable life and needing similar surgery to their dam?


Please correct me if i am wrong but the ridge along the back of rhodesian ridgebacks are a defect and but have been bred into the breed by 'ethical and responsible' breeders to satisfy the KC. The ridge may not be uncomfortable for a pup or require surgery but it is still a defect,


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Good Lord, what an example!!  I take it you are yet another expert from watching that programme about pedigree dogs?!! 

If that's your only perspective of responsible breeders who have KC registered dogs you're not worth the effort to try and educate to be perfectly honest. I get so fed up of people quoting that programme that did nothing to focus on the work that many more breeders do to ensure the pups they breed are happy and healthy, and terribly pedigree!!

The op asked for advice on breeding, she was given good advice by people from the forum, end of story.


----------



## rebenda (Jan 1, 2009)

You shouldnt breed from her, we automatically neuter shar peis who need entropian surgery, think of the poor pups and espec when u have tell buyers that ur dog has had entropian surgery will they want to buy the pup? and they spend all the money on them getting the surgery?


----------



## rebenda (Jan 1, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Anyone who thinks breeding dogs and having children is the same, both ethically and practically, shouldn't even be considering breeding.
> 
> Mmmm - unfortunately, those sorts of ideas are the cause of so many unwanted dogs sitting in rescue.


completely agree dundee

people who think this i believe are very nieve to what goes on in rehoming centres and the painful illnesses certain breeds get! i have seen lots of dogs espec shar peis who have entropian and all have suffered with painful eye ulcers before surgery, but hey if the woman wants to breed she should breed........


----------



## Guest (Sep 13, 2009)

> Good Lord, what an example!!  I take it you are yet another expert from watching that programme about pedigree dogs?!!
> 
> If that's your only perspective of responsible breeders who have KC registered dogs you're not worth the effort to try and educate to be perfectly honest. I get so fed up of people quoting that programme that did nothing to focus on the work that many more breeders do to ensure the pups they breed are happy and healthy, and terribly pedigree!!
> 
> The op asked for advice on breeding, she was given good advice by people from the forum, end of story.


ohh i agree..could you imagine what would happen if we belived everything that went on the telly!  Im not saying that "none" of it isnt true..but people have to see the bigger picture and not class everyone the same! Gosh am i glad that we own a breed that suffers very little! 

If people want to use them sort of statements then i would suggest they go out and do the years of research it takes to get this sort of information.


----------



## Yorkshire mum (Jul 19, 2009)

Can you live with yourself knowing you are creating little puppies that will have to go through that. Some breeds have health problems, most people would not want to be a part of it, and have something more natural and healthy. 
If you were naive to this you are not now.
By the way vets are not some superbeings who are always right.


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Please do not breed from your Pei. I work in a rescue and we almost always have at least one Shar Pei in (we have two at the moment) and both suffer from horrific health problems as a result of their poor breeding.

Both have skin conditions and one of them needs to be bathed every single day. She is almost bald in many areas around her body because her folds and wrinkles have caused all the fur to be rubbed away, which must be so uncomfortable for her. The other one has terrible issues with her breathing and broken skin on her face. She needs vaseline rubbing on her nose every day to keep the skin moist and more comfortable, and listening to her trying to breathe is absoloutely heartbreaking. She sounds as if she's growling and it puts people off wanting her, because they do not understand that she isn't growling - she's just breathing  I am aware of her problem and when I entered her kennel to put her vaseline on, even I was a tiny bit wary because the noise she made just makes her sound vicious, but she really isn't. She is a loving, friendly girl who just wants a cuddle and someone to make her better 

I don't know a lot about the breed but from seeing these sad, unhealthy dogs who are literally battling to breathe just makes me so upset to think that people are still breeding them.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kellogs1 said:


> Please correct me if i am wrong but the ridge along the back of rhodesian ridgebacks are a defect and but have been bred into the breed by 'ethical and responsible' breeders to satisfy the KC. The ridge may not be uncomfortable for a pup or require surgery but it is still a defect,


oh please...so are you saying its wrong to breed a Ridgeback with a ridge but ok to breed a Shar Pei with entropion


----------



## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

kellogs1 said:


> you must make sure that you go into the breeding with eyes open


Unlike her poor Shar Pei bitch.


----------



## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

"Unlike her poor Shar Pei bitch."


lol


----------



## Ridgielover (Apr 16, 2008)

_


kellogs1 said:



Please correct me if i am wrong but the ridge along the back of rhodesian ridgebacks are a defect and but have been bred into the breed by 'ethical and responsible' breeders to satisfy the KC. The ridge may not be uncomfortable for a pup or require surgery but it is still a defect,

Click to expand...

_Delighted to correct you 

The ridge is a mutation that had occured naturally and was on the African natives' hunting dogs. Don't think they had much to do with the KC! The European's dogs bred with these dogs and the European hunters found that the best hunting dogs were those with the ridges. Again - nothing to do with the KC. That is why the ridge is part of the standard which was drawn up by the hunters - not the KC.


----------



## Ladywiccana (Feb 24, 2008)

*I am now closing this thread as the op has not posted since 30/08!*


----------

