# beyond fed up with litter tray issues!



## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

:incazzato: oscar has decided to take TWO poos on my carpet this morning, one was fine, picked up disinfected carpet, the other, was one huge pile of diarrhea :incazzato::incazzato::incazzato: he knows this is wrong as he saw me and ran and hid!
I think he is unsettled with wispa due to pop soon, and he was asking to go outside just before, which I didn't let due to the fact it was pouring, 
even so there are litter trays! 
he did this yesterday, weed one side of the hall and poo'd the other, 
only to be topped off with wispa only pooing in the bath now! 
feels like my cats are :dita: at me!
I love them dearly and would NEVER rub their faces in it like ppl used to say, I do some times grab their scruff hold them near it and point and say no. 
and don't sugest feliway, it makes oscar WEE everywhere!!!! the spray he is okish with but the plug in he hates.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

You scruff your cats and shove their faces towards their accidents  that is so wrong it is beyond words.


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

I do not shove their faces into it, I hold them so he has to look at what I am saying no to, nor do I pick them up by it, or do it in a way to stun him still,


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

If he had diarrhoea then surely he is not well and does not need to be told off for it.


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## loubyfrog (Feb 29, 2012)

He may have a upset tummy with him having dirrahea.I'm no cat expert but i dont think holding him by the scruff of the neck & saying no to him will help the situation (i wouldnt even do that to my dogs,nevermind my cats!!!!)...he also may be scared to poo now so panics when he's trying to go especially if he thinks hes going to get "manhandled" after
Maybe try popping some of the poop into the litter tray after he's been & see what happens,But keep an eye on him as if he does a tummy trouble you need to find out why.

I know you have a lot on your plate at the moment & poop everwhere isnt helping so i hope its just a one off with Oscar but please dont tell him off for it.....he's not doing it on a purpose.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

yeahuloveme said:


> :incazzato: oscar has decided to take TWO poos on my carpet this morning, one was fine, picked up disinfected carpet, the other, was one huge pile of diarrhea :incazzato::incazzato::incazzato: he knows this is wrong as he saw me and ran and hid!
> I think he is unsettled with wispa due to pop soon, and he was asking to go outside just before, which I didn't let due to the fact it was pouring,
> even so there are litter trays!
> he did this yesterday, weed one side of the hall and poo'd the other,
> ...


Sorry but I have tried to post a polite and helpful suggestion but to be honest I'm struggling.Cats are extremely clean animals especially in their toilet habits,so they are obviously stressed by the situation.To scruff any cat and do what you are doing will be making the situation worse not to mention so very,very wrong on all levels


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Oh come on! Its threads like this that are making want to leave this forum lately!

He has an upset stomach, so he is not doing this on purpose. As his owner and carer it is your responsibilty to sort this out. Stop getting wound up in what annoys you and what is inconvienient to you and step up to your responsibilities. Get him a vets appointment and get started on sorting these tummy issues out.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

jo-pop said:


> Oh come on! Its threads like this that are making want to leave this forum lately!
> 
> He has an upset stomach, so he is not doing this on purpose. As his owner and carer it is your responsibilty to sort this out. Stop getting wound up in what annoys you and what is inconvienient to you and step up to your responsibilities. Get him a vets appointment and get started on sorting these tummy issues out.


I am liking your post in general, not that you want to leave


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

MontyMaude said:


> I am liking your post in general, not that you want to leave


haha, thanks. Its ok, i'm not going to. I just think :incazzato:


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

I am not taking a cat to the vet for ONE upset tummy, and he got told of for the solid poo, I can't ignore it, or he will not know, I took him back to it, so he knew what he was being told no for, 
he has to be told, and in all fairness, this is what our behaviourist told us to do before, and if a proffessional is happy with it, then so be.
It does not scare him, I dont shout and scream at him, I take him back to it, say no, let him go off while I clean it, 
he then comes back over chirps to say sorry he gets a big hug and its forgotten, I do not hold a grudge and stay in a mood with him, but I will tell my animals no as I would children!


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

I am trying to get advice on how to stop him going, he hates changes due to his past, and I understand that, I do not shout at him, but I cant let this continue and above all else, what example does this set to the kittens when they come, I can not send them off to their new homes thinking this is acceptable. 
doggy tum is no doubt due to being wormed, as they hate it. 
I would never hurt my animals, but he does need to know what he can and can not do, and he knows not to do it which is why he runs off and hides. 
animals are ok to hold by the scruff if you do not lift them by it, pull them by it, or do it hard, and vets confirm that, you do it to give meds to them.
please dont have images of me dragging him by his scruff screaming, because it really is not like that at all.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

yeahuloveme said:


> I am not taking a cat to the vet for ONE upset tummy, and he got told of for the solid poo, I can't ignore it, or he will not know, I took him back to it, so he knew what he was being told no for,
> he has to be told, and in all fairness, this is what our behaviourist told us to do before, and if a proffessional is happy with it, then so be.
> It does not scare him, I dont shout and scream at him, I take him back to it, say no, let him go off while I clean it,
> he then comes back over chirps to say sorry he gets a big hug and its forgotten, I do not hold a grudge and stay in a mood with him, but I will tell my animals no as I would children!


Can I just say my understanding, from what I have read on training cats, is that one needs to say "No" at the exact split second they exhibit unaccceptable behaviour. It is never effective taking a cat back to the 'scene of the crime', even a few minutes later, and scolding them, as they have no idea what you are telling them off for. 
All they know is their human is angry, and it is frightening, so they must do all they can to appease her/him.

I am absolutely certain your cat would not make the connection between your annoyance and its toilet accident. Nor would he be able to work out the difference between being yelled at for a solid poo but not yelled at for diarrhoea.

I honestly believe it is never helpful to scold a cat for toiletting accidents, as such events are without fail either due to stress, illness, or old age. 
So I am amazed an animal behaviourist would tell you it was OK to scold. Is this a new school of thought I wonder.

Your cat obviously knew he had a sore tummy, and wanted to go out for the toilet, as you say he asked to be let out, and you didn't let him because it was raining. He had already decided he couldn't face using the litter tray (for whatever reason, but not out of spite, I assure you), so he felt he had no choice but to use the carpet.

I know it is irritating to have to clear up poo, especially diarrhoea, so I do sympathise, but it is easier than getting rid of at pee smells when urine has been sprayed everywhere, believe me

Can I suggest as he has diarrhoea -- giving him a little poached white fish (cod or haddock) for his tea. I have always found this works very well in settling the tummy where there is upset. Nothing else, certainly not any dry food or milk products.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I cannot believe that a credible animal behaviourist would recommend that, especially seeing as you say he is a stress ball and are you going to do that to your kittens when you start to train them ? 

As for holding him by the scruff, I have never scruffed or held my cats by the scruff and have only seen my vet do it one of our cats which was a feisty part feral, I feel it is un-nesscary and unpleasant for the cat once they get past kittenhood.

How many litter trays do have, what litter do you use, what type of trays do you use, where are they placed in the house, how many cats do you have are they indoor/outdoor, if outdoor are they free to come and go or are they regulated with their time outside?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

yeahuloveme said:


> >>>>he knows not to do it which is why he runs off and hides.


I am sorry to labour the point but he is only running off and hiding because he is frightened of your anger. No other reason. 

I beg you to believe me that he is not making any connection between your show of annoyance with him, and his earlier toiletting accident. If he was capable of making such a connection (as an adult human would be) then he would not be having toilet accidents on the floor still. he would have long since learnt not to.


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## ella (Jan 1, 2009)

yeahuloveme said:


> I am not taking a cat to the vet for ONE upset tummy, and he got told of for the solid poo, I can't ignore it, or he will not know, I took him back to it, so he knew what he was being told no for,
> he has to be told, and in all fairness, this is what our behaviourist told us to do before, and if a proffessional is happy with it, then so be.
> It does not scare him, I dont shout and scream at him, I take him back to it, say no, let him go off while I clean it,
> he then comes back over chirps to say sorry he gets a big hug and its forgotten, I do not hold a grudge and stay in a mood with him, *but I will tell my animals no as I would children!*


But the two are not the same

In cats it can be counterproductive to chastise, especially with toiletting issues.

Have you tried any other methods (stress reduction, litter changes etc)?


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

ok I only took him back to make him relise why I was not happy, as he has already gone before I got to it, 
despite how hot headed I am on here, when it comes to my animals I am a big softie, 
tbh if you think it will not work, thats fine, I need to know how to stop it,
and would I say no to kittens for using my carpet as a toilet, of course I would, but I would also put them in the litter tray, 
I have an extra large cat litter box, hidden behind two doors as oscar likes to hide and do it. I use tesco litter as he did not seem to like any thing else, I have stopped using liners as he was digging so much he was catching them and throwing it every where, 
he also has the rim round it to stop litter kicking out, not that it always works, 
and the litter freshner powder


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## ella (Jan 1, 2009)

OK. I dont agree with the chastising, and wont go further than that, but here are some other things to try:
a second tray (maybe hooded) so he always has a clean/quiet tray - and that is not shared with other cats
giving up the littler freshener (it may be masking his own scent and may not recognise the tray as his)
keeping the tray clean from poop, but not too clean, again to maintain his own scent
trying a few drops of Dr Bachs Rescue Remedy in his water
trying other stress reduction like off the shelf in Pets at Home
asking your vet to discuss Zylkene tablets/ Zylkene food to calm him down

None of these are onerous (probably listed in order of difficulty) and my guess is it will take a combination of these to help him


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

the only thing I will say is the hooded ones are no good, as he is scared of them, he is a funny cat, he can be perfectly behaved for ages then have little periods where he becomes a handful, 
he is ok with his catbox as its the largest one they sell and he can see through the door and got slits all around it, but other than that he does not like confind spaces. 
they were thinking of putting him on a cat prozac before, but we managed to get him to calm down, when we moved he lived in the sofa for a WEEK!
he doesn't like strangers, does not like loud noises, 
i have two trays already but can get another that is not a problem, 
when my brothers cat came to stay some one weed on my side of the bed and I think it was him as he did it all the time when I got him and I worked nights, always mine .
he could never go to a cattery, and I could never get rid of him as I truely belive he would not cope plus I love him far to much.
he is mommy's little bear


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

yeahuloveme said:


> I am trying to get advice on how to stop him going, he hates changes due to his past, and I understand that, /QUOTE]
> 
> Well I suggest letting him have free access to the outdoors during the daytime, so he can regulate himself with his toiletting. Many cats who are used to going outdoors will hold on until they can poo outside, as they hate using litter trays for pooing, though may feel OK using them for peeing in. But if they have a dodgy tummy then there is the risk they will misjudge it and end up having an accident.
> 
> ...


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## ella (Jan 1, 2009)

TBH, the diarrhoea had probably upset his routine (and he may have got more stressed by the chastisement too), I bet the first poo was just a starter of the diarrhoea, even if it looked 'normal'. If he is timid anyway, and telling off will confuse him further (he doesnt speak the same .language' or have the same social habits and manners as a human!)

Bibi is/was hugely timid, and spent her first 3 weeks under my bed. She gets easily scared and 'spooked', and didnt like strangers.

She is now on Royal Canin Calm food and it has made the most amazing difference for her. I cannot recommend enough - and it may be worth talking to your vet about it. It has Zylkene in it, and requires no tablets. She will now greet visitors when they come round.....


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

he normally has his breakfast when my partner gets up, then goes out when I get up, the weather was horrendous this morning and once out he will not come back till night time between 8.30 and 11. 
so I did not want him out as I thought we were going to have more hail, 
he does have dried food, as he is a piggy and two pouches are not enough for him, he has never had a problem with them before, but I will keep an eye on it, 
I am seperating him from the kittens at the begining them carrying him through so he is higher, he tends to be ok with tiny kittens, and although my brothers cat is small for her age and used to be best friends, he got a bit funny, although some times neighboughs cats come in and he does not care, even caught both in my bed!
I will speak to the vets next week when I am in for a spay, and see what food the suggest.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I would also recommend Zylkene for him if he is stressed, Maudey is on it and it has made a world of difference to her, she hates strangers, we removed the doorbell because she was terrified of it, we don't wear shoes indoors because she is scared of them, in the 2 1/2 years I have had her no visitors have ever seen her as she will hide from them, we have discovered she has two safe places, one is under the duvet on the bed the other is on a dining room chair that is pushed under the table, these are her safe spot where she takes refuge and if she is in them we leave her be and don't disturb her, by on Zylkene she will come out when visitors leave where as before she wouldn't come out for hours and would be tense for days afterward. She is so much happier and confident on it, so I would definitely try him on it, you may not notice any difference for a fortnight as it can take a while to kick in and it can be quite subtle.

I would also stop using litter freshener as it may be confusing his nose as to where he is meant to go as he can't smell any of his previous deposits in there, what kind of litter do you use? could you try several types to see if there is one he prefers, and an extra tray never hurts, also I agree with Chillmix in respect that he wasn't bad this morning, he asked to be let out and you refused him (cats can get wet you know, they are not made of sugar) so he was obviously distressed and pooped on the floor, where as if you had let him out you would have avoided the whole issue of him having an accident and then having to chastise him, please don't ever show him what he has done wrong and tell him off for it, as he doesn't know or understand. Does he have a special place where he likes to hide/take himself off to if he is stressed ? if so can you make it a little nicer and comfy for him and just leave him to have chill time as I think his stress might go through the roof with the new kittens.


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

yes he likes to sleep IN my sofa, lol he climbs under the cover and it comes apart from moving and he climbs in the holes to sleep in the padding, its ok though as it has a frame and springs ontop of the frame, so he can not get hurt, 
I know he can, but I hate the thought of him taking shelter and feeling he can not come home, seriously I cry there is some thing wrong if he is not back by 11, he is my baby 
I will definatly look into getting that for him.
as I want him to stop using my carpets yes, but I want him to feel safe to.
Thankfully he is not as bad (nervous) as your one is.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I don't understand why he wouldn't come home until 11 pm at night -- wouldn't he be hungry long before then? Are you worried he is going somewhere else for food? That a neighbour is taking him in? 

Even my old cat of 15 who loves being outdoors most of the time will always come back when I call him for his meals. He used to be much more reluctant to come home when I was rationing his time outdoors (in the first months after I adopted him). Since he has been allowed to please himself (for the past 9 mths) when he comes and goes, he is much better at coming home when called. And much more sensible about coming in for shelter when it is raining. 

Can you not use "treats" to bring him home, i.e. put the treats in tin so they rattle and then shake the tin outside to bring him back? Let him learn that if he comes back when he is called he will ALWAYS get a really nice treat every time (perhaps some peices of cooked chicken, or some cat treats).

I have always found cats are great at responding to a reward system.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I would imagine he has several safe clean dry spots outside that he shelters in when it is raining, but to me it sounds like he gets more stressed when you keep him in like today, so if he asks to go out I think you have to let him as it's what he wants and what he is used to, if he didn't have a safe place you can guarantee he would be back in the house quicker than the speed of light if it was raining heavily and hailing and he was caught out in it. It appears that he likes to toilet outside, just a thought if he likes going outside to toilet, maybe get a very deep tray and put soil in it and see if he likes that. Zooplus do this tray which is really deep but open (I have two as Monty is kicker of litter)


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

yeahuloveme said:


> I am not taking a cat to the vet for ONE upset tummy, and *he got told of for the solid poo, I can't ignore it, or he will not know, I took him back to it, so he knew what he was being told no for,
> he has to be told, and in all fairness, this is what our behaviourist told us to do before, and if a proffessional is happy with it, then so be*.
> It does not scare him, I dont shout and scream at him, I take him back to it, say no, let him go off while I clean it,
> he then comes back over chirps to say sorry he gets a big hug and its forgotten, I do not hold a grudge and stay in a mood with him, but I will tell my animals no as I would children!


If,and I find this unlikely,a behaviourist told you to do that , then I would be reporting him/her to the Association of Pet Behavior Counsellors.That is totally wrong.
I have had the assistance of a behaviourist and she would be horrified if a colleague gave out that kind of advice.


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

he is hungry when he comes home, that is the later that he will be in, normally around nine. where I live we have a big building yard 200 yards or so away and he plays down there all day and in the river, so I am assuming he helps him self to fish or some thing lol x


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

yeahuloveme said:


> he is hungry when he comes home, that is the later that he will be in, normally around nine. where I live we have a big building yard 200 yards or so away and he plays down there all day and in the river, so I am assuming he helps him self to fish or some thing lol x


He'd have to be a super expert fisherman to catch fish from a river, even a tiny little river like a stream A goldfish bowl or a pond might be different 

Perhaps he is a cat with a slow metabolism who can keep going for a long time on his breakfast ! (This would never apply to mine though )


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## loubyfrog (Feb 29, 2012)

Definatley try the Zyklene especially if Feliway doesnt work for him.......you can buy it online without a vet prescription and its not expensive at all.I bought some as ive heard such good things about it & today is the first day Minkys had her dose (she's one helluva stressed cat) so hopefully it will work on her.

Also agree with everyone else....if Oscar wants to go out in the rain then let him,he wont drowned.Its been pouring it down here non stop but George has still 
moaned to go out so off he went.I looked for him 2 mins later & he was having a wail of a time stalking a sodden looking bumbly bee.As long as Oscar can dry off when he comes home he'll be just fine.

Hope Oscar destresses himself soon.


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