# bouncy border collie needs calming down...help req pls



## fifimcq (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi,we took on a 2 year old border only just 5 days ago from a cuple who did not have the time to take care of her.She is a beautiful dog but was only getting 1/2 hours excercise a day.We did the right things & visited her before taking her on & she came to visit us.We live in a very rural area & I am at home so she can have proper excercise with us.Problem is that although at times she can behave beautifully when anyone comes back into the house she jumps all over them,when you go to put her lead on she jumps and growls at you then grabs the lead in her teeth & when you go to play ball she will drop it and then bark furiously at you and go to grab it as soon as you try to pick it up.My husband has no problem with this behaviour at all and has already started working on giving her some rules on her place in the house as she seems to think she is in charge.I how ever feel a little un-nerved as many ears ago I was bitten by an untrained,un-excercised dog,I thought I was over this but apparently not.I really do not want to send her back as as much as they loved her they were not doing her any favours,I really think they just did not realise that she was the boss in there house hence they never said anything.I am reading the book "The dog listener" but would really appreciate any suggestions to try and get my confidence up with her as me & my daughter want to take up agility training with her as she is so danm clever & do not want a bored unhappy dog.I should mention there are 2 children here aged 5 & 11 & for now I am trying not to leave them un-supervised with her as although she is wagging her tail when she jumps and barks I will not take that as a given that she is totally happy.Sorry for the rambling text but any advice,much much appreciated.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Rather than reading that book, I would heartily recommend that you get yourselves off to a proper training class as from the sounds of it, this girl has had little in the way of training. Take a look at this list and see if there is someone within reasonable reach. You won't regret it and it is vital that your dog has basic obedience before doing agility anyway. Local Dog Trainers - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK  In the meantime, attach a lead to her when visitors arrive and do not allow anyone to fuss her until she is sat quietly.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

As you have been bitten, you may not realise the difference between a friendly, play growl and a warning growl. I would not be surprised if this is a growl of excitement, as one of my dogs barks like merry hell when you get his lead out.

I know nothing about border collies, but there are lots on here that do and I am sure will be able to help you. There are better books that The Dog Listener - Jean Donaldson's the culture clash has been recommended by many. He does not want to be boss, by the way. He is just a working breed who has never had the right exercise and training.

Don't be afraid of him. I am sure you will soon get to know his little noises and body language and what it all means.


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## tasha15 (Feb 12, 2010)

hi welcome i would reccomend sarah fisher and marie millers books they have been great on helping me raise my border collie but can be used on adult dogs they work with ttouch but the 100 ways for a perfect dog book has lots of good info on training i have all 3 book they are great my bonnie also does this with the ball at home they are ball mad and if you dont throw it she barks i think she is trying to tell me usually it is an excitement bark a clicker is a great thing for training these clever dogs it will get better the more effort you put in these are not breeds for lazy training they need consistant and constant attention/ training but the results pay off in the end i would reccomend plenty of walks and training try teaching her to fetch the ball when she brings it offer her a really tasty treat in exchange for the ball and she will eventually get it they need lots of mental stimulation but are a lovely breed with the right training hope this helps you


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Well done on giving this bitch a home.

As others have said, you and your dog would benefit from attending a good dog training class. If you can't find one in your area, email me privately and I will try to find a suitable class for you.

In the meantime when she starts unwanted behaviour ie barking for the ball, just turn your back on her and completely ignore her until she stops (they hate being ignored) and praise quietly when she calms down. You can do the same when you clip the lead on ie she starts grabbing the lead and jumping around - just drop the lead and turn your back to her and only pick it up when she calms down. Please try and remain calm as the more excited you get so will she and collies love a good argument...!!

Its not her fault poor girl, it sounds as if she's done as she pleased for the last two years.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

As strange as this may sound right now, you have to love border collies. All they want to be is the centre of attention in your world, their world and the whole world. This means that they never stop wanting to do things be it running around like a whirlwind, turning anything into a toy or just taking an interest in everything you or anything else is doing.

She sounds like she is a little frustrated and from what you have said about her previous home it is no wonder. If she was not challenged mentally and physically before taken to a whole new environment where there are lots of new and exciting things going off plus she is now getting interaction which she was previously starved of then she will be a little bouncy, over eager, playful and excitable. Given time, a bit of structure, some basic training and a chance to run off that pent up frustration and energy you will have a the whole family can enjoy, of that I have no doubt.

There are no books that I could say is a definite read in particular but every book I have read I have taken something from and applied it to my dogs in a way that suits their personality, motivation and the kind of thing I am looking for in a dog. Your dog will be very open to which ever activity you want to do with her so I would read up as much as you can. The books mentioned already are pretty good and will provide you with ideas and methods but every dog is different in little variances so it worth reading as much as you can, take what you like and apply it.

Now is the ideal time to sit down together as a family and write a list of rules that the dog must never be allowed to do by anyone such as be on the furniture, be in a certain room, go upstairs, be allowed to play or chew anything that she's not and whatever you find suits your household. Then it's a case of teaching the dog what it can do. Better to show a dog the few main things it can do rather than train and train out the 1million things it can't so everyone needs to be aware of where the dog sleeps, where it is fed, where it's water is and where it's toys are kept - no point wanting a dog that isn't pestering all the time to play if you leave it's toys out which it was playing games with you for the last few days.

Collies are sensitive dogs, I am sure every dog is sensitive but collies seem to get upset very easily so be patient with her - she is trying to understand you more than you will ever try and understand her, she doesn't speak the lingo like everyone else in the house and doesn't know what is expected of her so take your time.

Have a word with your kids and explain that there needs to be a time where everyone is settled around the dog. I am sure you have already seen how quick the dog gets excited - flick of a switch - and how long it takes for them to calm back down again and settle so explain to the kids that she needs time to settle and rest, become relaxed in the house etc. You could make a game of it and see who is the first to disturb the dog or make her get up, whoever is first is obviously the loser.

Don't involve the kids in the training of the dog just yet but allow her to get to know you are and your husband - you will have far better timing, patience and technique than the kids. 

Don't over complicate things by trying to teach her too much too quick. A collie is a smart dog but it will also overload and shut down if too much is put on the dog too quickly. 

Do follow other's advice and get enrolled in a training class or book some sessions with a qualified trainer. Ask about training methods and opt for a reward based training method to get the best out of your dog as this will become the method you will use for agility more than anything so best to get the ground work across both species as early as possible.

Do go to training as a pair (if the kids can be looked after at that time) so you both learn the same techniques, timings and can both have a go so the trainer can correct your timing or techniques. You should both be singing from the same hymn sheet as it were.

Do walk the dog as a family though. Outside is the best place for the kids to interact with the dog as the dog has space. Inside the dog may feel pressured or confined and that is when accidents can happen. Outside there is plenty of room to run around, play chase, fetch, hide and seek etc.

Check what food you are feeding her. Remember that whatever energy you put in has to be used up somehow so a food high in additives, protein, oils or other more hidden nasties can be the root of most bad behaviour.


Remember: there are loads of people on here that have experience, qualifications and knowledge to be able to provide you with numerous solutions to things, some you won;t have thought of, so feel free to ask. It's free after all and you usually get an answer within the hour most times anyway.

Congratulations on rescuing a dog that was in need of a new home. I am sure in time you will have a great family dog that every family member can enjoy.

All the best.


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## fifimcq (Oct 14, 2010)

:thumbup:Thank you everyone so mch for your replies,strangely enough it actually made a difference to know that someone else was actually interested.

I have rung the vets & got some names of training classes in my area they recommend & left a message so that is a start.

I have also realised that taking her to the school to pickup & drop off the kids is not poss the best idea as so many small people to excite her was not helping & she has been far calmer today.

I will leave the ball training entirely to my husband as he has the patience of a saint & not in the least bit nervous of her growling (unlike this chickie here lol).

I am pretty sure that there will be a million more times that I will dip in & out of here & even though I have owned a collie x before she was not as bouyant so I will be looking for all your words of wisdom.

Many thanks so far :biggrin:


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Of course we are interested and we would much rather you ask advice and opinions than get it wrong. Work on that nervousness, though. Dogs often growl when they are excited; doesn't mean a thing.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

fifimcq said:


> :thumbup:Thank you everyone so mch for your replies,strangely enough it actually made a difference to know that someone else was actually interested.
> 
> I have rung the vets & got some names of training classes in my area they recommend & left a message so that is a start.


Excellent news!  Please keep us updated as to your progress. I am sure that with your commitment and time, you are going to be able to report improvements in her behaviour to us shortly.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

fifimcq said:


> I have rung the vets & got some names of training classes in my area
> [that] they recommend & left a message so that is a start.


oops  i would Not Recommend just taking the vet's rec - 
CHECK to see that they are at least *APDT-uk member trainers *- 
if not COAPE or APBC [higher-qualification credentials].

if they so much as mention 
*dominance 
be the pack-leader 
dominate 
pin the dog 
roll the dog 
bitey-hands or neck-pokes to interrupt behavior 
or other aversive tools [choke, prong collars, shock-collars, 
slip-leads OTHER THAN fat std-Brit-style slip-leads, resembling horse-leads + 3/4-inch thick rounds] 
demand a refund, and Leave Immediately - without letting them handle her on-leash.*

she is as ignorant as the day is long, but she's not ill-intentioned, and if there's anything she does 
NOT need, it's an early bad-experience to make her suspicious + scared of training, in general - 
or non-family humans, in particular!

she needs dog-friendly, savvy training + handling - NOT 'pack-theory' hooey. 
google NON-LINEAR DOGS for an article about dogs, who do *not* form packs, even when feral. 
domestic-dogs are highly-social - but they are not 'wolf packs'; they don't communally-rear litters, 
co-operate to hunt large game + share the kill, *pair-bond and remain monogamous for years*, etc.

U also don't mention if she is *spayed* - if she's intact, i'd be making that appt ASAP. 
intact-animals of either sex are more likely to bite, and the complication of denying her exercise 
while she goes thru estrus is going to ramp-up frustration enormously.

*calmatives* can also help; they are Not tranquilizers, they just take the anxiety level down - 
Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much... 
all of those are OTC, no scrips needed; no interactions, no dosage worries.

happy training, and congratulations on the new addition, 
- terry


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Yep good advice from Leashedforlife there.  Take care and don't just go for the most convenient class if the one a bit further away (or a costs a bit more) is the better one - ie; does not indulge in old fashioned dominance theories etc as per Terrys' post.


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## fifimcq (Oct 14, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> oops  i would Not Recommend just taking the vet's rec -
> CHECK to see that they are at least *APDT-uk member trainers *-
> if not COAPE or APBC [higher-qualification credentials].
> 
> ...


Thats one thing I am already on to,I do not want anyone that mentions squirting her with water,forcing her to do anything or using a blood choke chain & yes I will check they are properly qualified.

I have also spoken to someone about her food as she was being fed on pedigree dry & bakers,so am off to someones house tomorrow to pick up some csj champ???,it was recommended by a collie "expert" as in, he runs a centre for those that are no longer wanted :confused1: & then tries to re-home them,an inspiration he was & gave me some obvious advice,god knows why I did not think of his suggestions myself but hey ho better late then never.

& it may sound completely mad but just with a teeny bit of insight i feel a lot calmer with her today than I did yesterday:thumbup:


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## fifimcq (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh & sorry I forgot to say that no she has not been spayed but we are already onto it as I agree no excercise for that length of time seems insane for both of us & I really really really do not want any accidents as I am not wantinf the responsibilities of puppies.


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## ArwenLune (Jan 3, 2010)

If she is ball-crazy, you have one of the most powerful motivators right there - 'If you do X, I will throw the ball for you'

You'll have to start really small with X - maybe 'be silent for two seconds' or 'not crowding me' or 'not growling' or something like that. As soon as she catches on that X is what gets the ball thrown, and nothing happens when she barks/growls (which is essentially her way of saying OMGOMGTHEBALLTHROWITTHROWIT!!) you can start to expand on X until you can have her waiting politely.


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

Good idea to get the collie of the Bakers as this can make them hyper have a look at Burns I know its a bit dearer than CSJ but the protein is low which you may find helps the collie settle down. My rescue BC is on the Burns Alert which seems to suit him he was a nightmare a first. But once the dog bonds with you you will see results very quickly. Good luck.


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## Elaine76 (Sep 1, 2010)

Hi
I've read your post & some of the replies. We've got a 5 month old border collie, he's our first dog & every so often I think we're mad !!!! 
I just wanted to say that we've had some similar problems, Dylan is an energy furball, some days he's soooo naughty,latest ticks are stealing things (paper, pens etc), running off and eating them. He's just learned the andrex puppy trick with the loo roll (groan) ! 
He starts every walk by jumping and biting the lead until he settles down. Can be very trying. 
He is lovely though and does respond very well to short bursts of training. We went to puppy classes and that gave us more confidence.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this so you know you're not alone! 

All the best.


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## fifimcq (Oct 14, 2010)

Elaine76 said:


> Hi
> I've read your post & some of the replies. We've got a 5 month old border collie, he's our first dog & every so often I think we're mad !!!!
> I just wanted to say that we've had some similar problems, Dylan is an energy furball, some days he's soooo naughty,latest ticks are stealing things (paper, pens etc), running off and eating them. He's just learned the andrex puppy trick with the loo roll (groan) !
> He starts every walk by jumping and biting the lead until he settles down. Can be very trying.
> ...


Hmmmmmmmmm interesting as ours gets in the washing basket & takes the dirty socks,runs downstairs with them & sits there with this "what did I do face"


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