# Advice please - Patterdale dog aggression getting worse



## Panda_girl (Jan 15, 2017)

Hi, I'm just looking for a bit of help with my rescue Patterdale aged 7. 

He has always been wary of unneutered male dogs, but yesterday he attacked a neutered male. I don't often walk him off lead, but I was in a quiet area playing ball with him and another dog appeared suddenly, my dog ran off and wouldn't come back (his recall is usually pretty good) and set upon this dog. He did not bite the other dog, but did pin him down and the other dog hurt his leg trying to get away. The other owner is understandably very angry, I have given her my details and offered to pay any vet bills, but she seems to be pretty vindictive and says she wants me prosecuted and will take me to court for the distress caused as well as the vet bills, even though I have said if she produces proof of any costs relating to the incident I will pay them. I rang the police in tears to try and figure out where I stood and they did reassure me that it's a civil matter but she seems very hell bent not just on recovering any costs, but punishing me as well. I appreciate my dog was in the wrong and I have apologised, I will not take the risk of allowing him off lead again, we had been going to training and it seemed like his behaviour was improving so this is a huge setback that I really didn't expect. I've gone back to the rescue shelter for behaviourist help too, so please don't be too harsh with me - I own my mistake, I thought he had made enough progress to be let off lead as he has been recalling really well but clearly I was wrong and won't take the risk again. He has never attacked another dog like that before since I have had him (6 months). He was neutered in February so I don't know if that might have made any difference. 

Has anyone had any experience of this kind of thing and does anyone know whether you can actually take someone to court for "distress caused" if they have already offered to pay any costs, willingly given insurance details and even consulted the police for advice themselves? Nothing I have done to try and make amends seems to satisfy her. 

On a separate note if anyone has any tips on dealing with male dog on dog aggression that would also be really helpful (he is fine with females).


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Panda_girl said:


> Hi, I'm just looking for a bit of help with my rescue Patterdale aged 7.
> 
> He has always been wary of unneutered male dogs, but yesterday he attacked a neutered male. I don't often walk him off lead, but I was in a quiet area playing ball with him and another dog appeared suddenly, my dog ran off and wouldn't come back (his recall is usually pretty good) and set upon this dog. He did not bite the other dog, but did pin him down and the other dog hurt his leg trying to get away. The other owner is understandably very angry, I have given her my details and offered to pay any vet bills, but she seems to be pretty vindictive and says she wants me prosecuted and will take me to court for the distress caused as well as the vet bills, even though I have said if she produces proof of any costs relating to the incident I will pay them. I rang the police in tears to try and figure out where I stood and they did reassure me that it's a civil matter but she seems very hell bent not just on recovering any costs, but punishing me as well. I appreciate my dog was in the wrong and I have apologised, I will not take the risk of allowing him off lead again, we had been going to training and it seemed like his behaviour was improving so this is a huge setback that I really didn't expect. I've gone back to the rescue shelter for behaviourist help too, so please don't be too harsh with me - I own my mistake, I thought he had made enough progress to be let off lead as he has been recalling really well but clearly I was wrong and won't take the risk again. He has never attacked another dog like that before since I have had him (6 months). He was neutered in February so I don't know if that might have made any difference.
> 
> ...


If you really think this owner will take it further you could ring Trevor Cooper for advice:

www.doglaw.co.uk/contact-us/


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

My own dog was attacked by another dog and I reported it to the Police.

They took a statement from me and although Jack had a small wound on his ear I didn't want more done than the owner given a talking to about her responsibilities and she was issued with a Community Control Order and order to keep the dog on leash in public. 

It isn't a Police record, but if the dog does it again it can escalate to a formal Caution, etc.

She apologised (via the Policeman) and seemed genuinely upset by it herself.

I doubt this woman will take you to court, especially as you have offered to pay vet fees etc. Not sure what else she would hope to achieve? Hopefully, once she calms down she will be sensible about it.

Are you insured because that should give Public Liability cover.

Dogs aren't machines and we could all find ourselves caught out one day, so try not to stress too much. Patterdales are feisty dogs so maybe look on the breed sites for some advice on handling them.

Positively.com and Kikopup are also good for positive training methods.

Muzzle training might be worth considering for your own peace of mind?


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

I would try not to stress too much ....most court cases are in order to get the Vet costs paid ...but you have already offered to do that so i suspect that there isn't much more for her to claim unless she can prove injury to herself...which as there was no injury to the dogs and it was over in seconds, is unlikely. If it is pursued then the police may follow it up as Lurcherlad explained 

I would purchase a long line to attach to your dogs harness (so no more completely 'off lead') and I would also get a muzzle. Both of these things will show anyone official who comes around how seriously you are taking the incident and the fact that you are undergoing training with your dog will show you are working to improve him. And if you need advice the link above posted by Twiggy may help.

Patterdales are notoriously feisty (I love them ) but in my experience (we've always had Patterdales on the farm) they can show same-sex aggression, so it may be that your boy developed an established pattern of attacking other entire males (or those that smell of testosterone) whilst he was un neutered himself. Now that he has been neutered, with good training this habit should be able to be worked on.

For me I would just work now on a long line/lead to teach your dog to ignore other dogs be they male or female and just come with/sit for you (reward, reward, reward). Hopefully the behaviourist at the rescue will be able to offer you a plan to work to ....

J


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## Canarie (Sep 4, 2013)

My cat was killed by a dog.The dog walker paying attention to her phone and not her dog who although on the lead took owner inawares and too powerful.Dog walker did a "runner".I tracked owner down and got the police involved.The owner was given a talking too and the dog is now muzzled.Owner never apologised.We claimed on insurance,but,were still out of pocket and understandably upset.
You have apologised and offered to pay vets bill.You have done the decent thing.Dont get too stressed.It happens.
My dog a short while ago was pinned down by a large dog that again the owner could not hold.Although your dog was off lead as it shows you can have a dog on a lead and "bad" things happen.

Canarie


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Male Patterdales, and indeed a number of male terriers, are often not the best around other males.

I had a Parson Russell Terrier who was extremely aggressive towards other males, but fine with bitches. He remained that way until he died at sixteen.

He was never allowed offlead and I was very clear with anyone who wanted to let their dog approach that he would bite and worse.


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## Panda_girl (Jan 15, 2017)

Well he definitely won't be doing it again, I've bought a long line for him and I've contacted the animal charity's behaviourist for help. They didn't tell me he had any behaviour problems when we adopted him, these are all things that have been coming out since we've had him. I guess the previous owners were not honest about his temperament. We will see what the behaviourist suggests.

I am insured, yes, there is cover. I don't really know what she hopes to achieve, she has been sending me nasty texts today and it's stressing me out, I guess she's upset and needs to vent, but I don't think I deserve abuse.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well now, don't allow this woman to bully you.

If her dog wasn't hurt, yet you've offered to pay any Vet bills and you apologised profusely, there is really no more you can do.

She is entitled to be a little upset, but she's not entitled to send you abusive or threatening messages.

I would message her, reaffirm your offer to cover any costs, apologise again and reassure her that in future, you dog will always be onlead, then ask her to stop messaging you.

If she persists, I would be inclined to ask the Police to speak to her.


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## Panda_girl (Jan 15, 2017)

Sweety said:


> Male Patterdales, and indeed a number of male terriers, are often not the best around other males.
> 
> I had a Parson Russell Terrier who was extremely aggressive towards other males, but fine with bitches. He remained that way until he died at sixteen.
> 
> He was never allowed offlead and I was very clear with anyone who wanted to let their dog approach that he would bite and worse.


I didn't know that it's a terrier trait. I had a Rottweiler before who was a rescue too but soft as anything, he looked fierce but wasn't at all, yet this lad looks like a little teddy bear but he's so feisty! He's lovely with people, but definitely not other male dogs.


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## Panda_girl (Jan 15, 2017)

Sweety said:


> Well now, don't allow this woman to bully you.
> 
> If her dog wasn't hurt, yet you've offered to pay any Vet bills and you apologised profusely, there is really no more you can do.
> 
> ...


Well the police turned up earlier this evening! Turns out she's told some real whoppers about what happened - claimed I didn't have a collar on my dog and didn't have a lead with me and that's not true at all. Fortunately I'd taken a picture of my dog about 15 mins before it happened because he found a dropped ice cream on the floor and I had a photo of him with ice cream face that clearly shows he was on a lead and had a collar on! I think this woman is a trouble maker. The police were satisfied I hadn't done anything criminal, I showed them the messages and they said they'd be having a word and advising her to solve this between us and if she felt she could not communicate in a civil way with me perhaps it would be best if she gave her vet my details and allowed the vet to deal with it if there is a bill to pay. So hopefully that will be the end of it and I can get on with whatever the behaviourist gets us to do.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Panda_girl said:


> The police were satisfied I hadn't done anything criminal


Well, your dog out of control in a public place, which falls under the Dangerous Dogs Act if considered 'dangerously' out of control and therefore could be perceived as criminal - usually a human has to be bitten to get to that level. Though 'distress caused' should be a civil matter, and sending abusive messages is not acceptable. Not to know that some male terriers are prone to same-sex aggression (Patterdales seem to be particularly bad for this) does indicate a lack of research before taking the dog on. At his age it's likely to be management for life to be safe; you're not likely to turn him around completely to the point he could be trusted 100%.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

She sounds like a very unpleasant bully. You have been perfectly reasonable in offering to pay any bills (of which it sounds like there are none) and apologised, so I am not sure what else you are expected to do? accidents happen, and you sound like you are more then responsible enough to ensure it doesn't happen again. In fact you have done more than what most would do in my experience. I'd tell her to stop contacting you and that if she continues to you'll report her for harassment.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Panda_girl said:


> Well he definitely won't be doing it again, I've bought a long line for him and I've contacted the animal charity's behaviourist for help. They didn't tell me he had any behaviour problems when we adopted him, these are all things that have been coming out since we've had him. I guess the previous owners were not honest about his temperament. We will see what the behaviourist suggests.
> 
> I am insured, yes, there is cover. I don't really know what she hopes to achieve, she has been sending me nasty texts today and it's stressing me out, I guess she's upset and needs to vent, but I don't think I deserve abuse.


You have been entirely reasonable - she clearly is being unnecessarily nasty.

Keep all the texts and any record any communications with her which might go against her if things go further.

In this "blame = gain" World we live in some people will see £ signs at the drop of a hat. However, they don't always succeed 

ETA: just seen your post after the Police visit. Good news really, as you could pour cold water on her explanation of the event and they can see she is lying. Once they have a word, hopefully, she will realise she's been sussed and will back off


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## Panda_girl (Jan 15, 2017)

Burrowzig said:


> Well, your dog out of control in a public place, which falls under the Dangerous Dogs Act if considered 'dangerously' out of control and therefore could be perceived as criminal - usually a human has to be bitten to get to that level. Though 'distress caused' should be a civil matter, and sending abusive messages is not acceptable. Not to know that some male terriers are prone to same-sex aggression (Patterdales seem to be particularly bad for this) does indicate a lack of research before taking the dog on. At his age it's likely to be management for life to be safe; you're not likely to turn him around completely to the point he could be trusted 100%.


Well, we were told by the shelter that he had no issues with other dogs and had passed all their tests fine. They had introduced him to neutered males (as there were no unneutered ones there) and there was no issue. These issues have come to light since we adopted him and we did research the breed but nowhere did we see that they are prone to same sex aggression. The trainer at our rescue dog obedience class never mentioned it either. That's a new one on me, but obviously I do know now and I won't take any chances.


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## Darkangelwitch (Mar 16, 2016)

Keep copies of ALL communications, make notes of when you phoned the police and of what they said when they visited you - in other words record/note everything. If she then decides to try to sue you for "distress" you don't have to try to remember every thing as you will have kept a log.

To be safe take screenshots too of the texts just in case and store them on your computer/iPad etc.


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