# Pet Corrector? Your thoughts??



## Lady3131 (Nov 26, 2009)

I've been recommended by a dog behaviourist to carry a pet corrector to use when out with my pup to try and stop her barking at other dogs when on the lead. 

We've tried distracting with toys and treats but she's having none of it. She's the perfect dog and the barking isn't so much of a problem but it has got her into trouble in the last few weeks as dogs have become quite aggressive towards her. It's important that we stop it as obviously she's sending off the wrong signals (she's actually just nervous and once they come over to say hello she soon shuts up!)

I was just wondering whether anyone had used one of these before and what your thoughts were on them... 

I normally don't like to use any aversive methods... is it possible that I can be adding to her fear by using something that she doesn't like at this time (I will be hiding it so she doesn't see it coming from me)>?


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I'm no dog behaviourist, but why on earth would you further frighten a dog which is already showing fear??? That would only compound her fear and may make her retaliate--possibly by biting you.
I think it's a TERRIBLE idea and you ought to change your behaviourist ASAP.

BTW, what qualifications does she have?


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

Is this the compressed air spray? I have seen them used but wouldn't like to try them myself. I think the danger is that at the moment your dog is associating the sight of other dogs with danger, if you give her a blast of this spray when that happens won't she then associate seeing other dogs with the unpleasant effect of the spray, thereby exasperating the problem.

As I understand it these things have to be used at quite close range, so you also run the risk of the dog 'finding you out' and associating it with you.

You say that once she meets the other dogs she is quite happy so it would seem that the problem is the bit between seeing them and meeting them. Without knowing what you have already tried it is difficult to make a suggestion, but personally I don't think the pet corrector is the way to go. Hope you find a solution.


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## Lady3131 (Nov 26, 2009)

I don't want to say too much about them on a public forum as they did suggest a number of other solutions too... 

Just more wondered about what people thought about the 'pet corrector' product? 

I'm reluctant to go this route but have seen some trainers use water pistols in a similar fashion and wondered why...


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## Lady3131 (Nov 26, 2009)

Jasper's Bloke said:


> Is this the compressed air spray? I have seen them used but wouldn't like to try them myself. I think the danger is that at the moment your dog is associating the sight of other dogs with danger, if you give her a blast of this spray when that happens won't she then associate seeing other dogs with the unpleasant effect of the spray, thereby exasperating the problem.
> 
> As I understand it these things have to be used at quite close range, so you also run the risk of the dog 'finding you out' and associating it with you.
> 
> You say that once she meets the other dogs she is quite happy so it would seem that the problem is the bit between seeing them and meeting them. Without knowing what you have already tried it is difficult to make a suggestion, but personally I don't think the pet corrector is the way to go. Hope you find a solution.


Yeah I agree with you. I've trained dogs for many years and come across a number of methods and just wondered what people's experience was of these.

I've always stayed away from them for the reasons you stated though..


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Aversives are strongly contra-indicated in relation to reactive dogs.

Your dog already barks at other dogs which is a conflict signal (but the reason doesn't matter) you are now going to strongly associate an aversive with the arrival/presence of other dogs.

This is classical conditioning and its waaaay stronger than operant learning which is what the 'behaviourist' thinks will happen instead ie. that you will be able to effectively punish the barking.

In general products like these are strongly aversive and therefore come with all sorts of fallout, likely way more serious than the original issue for which the 'pet corrector' was suggested.


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## Lady3131 (Nov 26, 2009)

tripod said:


> Aversives are strongly contra-indicated in relation to reactive dogs.
> 
> Your dog already barks at other dogs which is a conflict signal (but the reason doesn't matter) you are now going to strongly associate an aversive with the arrival/presence of other dogs.
> 
> ...


Very interesting. I'm going to go with my gut instinct on this one then and stick to my previous methods.

I've mainly been trying to distract her with treats but she is now too interested in the other dogs so I am resorting to walking in the opposite direction and ignoring it... I am also trying to get to the local parks as often as I can to get her to meet other dogs and attending training classes where she actually shuts up for the majority of it as there are too many to shout at!

If anyone has any further ideas i'm willing to try. As I said, she is only an 8 month old pup and aside from this little anti-socialness she is the perfect dog. I'm just concerned that I don't want it to develop. I'm pretty sure she's currently going through her 'fear period' so want to handle these situations sensibly.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2011)

I have used it and found it to be very effective! BUT timing is the key and you just may as well rattle a jar of stones or use a water spray! you will get the same effect!


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Lady3131 said:


> I've been recommended by a dog behaviourist to carry a pet corrector to use when out with my pup to try and stop her barking at other dogs when on the lead.
> 
> We've tried distracting with toys and treats but she's having none of it. She's the perfect dog and the barking isn't so much of a problem but it has got her into trouble in the last few weeks as dogs have become quite aggressive towards her. It's important that we stop it as obviously she's sending off the wrong signals (she's actually just nervous and once they come over to say hello she soon shuts up!)
> 
> ...


The behaviourist recommended that? Crikey. I'd find another behaviourist and definitely bin the pet corrector.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

I think the walking away is a good idea.. 
Im not a behaviorist but surely Bark = no play will work even if it takes a little time


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

A trainer I used suggested one of these for Novak beacuse he jumps up at people when then come into the house.

I had no idea what it was, but a friend had one and said I could borrow it to see if it was effective, in comes a visitor, I got out the pet corrector and realised what it was. Sprayed it and Novak didn't even register it. Had I realised what it was I'd have not bothered. I fix PC's and use cans of compressed air to clean them. He's heard that noise almost daily since he was 8 weeks old lol.

In retrospect I'm glad because once I'd thought about it I realised, like yourself that I didn't want negative things associated with visitors.


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## JessiesGirl (May 8, 2010)

Lady3131 said:


> I've been recommended by a dog behaviourist to carry a pet corrector to use when out with my pup to try and stop her barking at other dogs when on the lead.
> 
> We've tried distracting with toys and treats but she's having none of it. She's the perfect dog and the barking isn't so much of a problem but it has got her into trouble in the last few weeks as dogs have become quite aggressive towards her. It's important that we stop it as obviously she's sending off the wrong signals (she's actually just nervous and once they come over to say hello she soon shuts up!)
> 
> ...


I'm not at all sure what a "Pet Corrector" is. :

With my own dog, I use the Leave It command when she sees other dogs and I don't want her to even look at them. (Some people use Leave It simply to mean the dog is not to go after something, but I have always used Leave It to mean the dog is not even to LOOK AT the item, person, dog, etc. I use Leave It to mean "ignore.")

With dogs I walk, I rely on distraction. I get in front of the dog so he's now facing me and can't see the other dog and is forced to have his attention back on me.

Maybe one of these techniques might work for you?


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## billie jo (Feb 17, 2011)

Just a thought - but have you tried desensitising your dog to other dogs? Problem is by walking away you are not addressing the barking. Offering treats is kinda rewarding the bad behaviour. Best really not to swamp the dog by making him/her go into an area where there are a lot of dogs. The answer is to do this gradually. Introduce your dogs to others from a distance and then gradually decrease the distance and increase the amount of dogs. Always remember the golden rule - reward the good behaviour, ie when the dog is quiet. Pet correctors are not the 'spawn of the devil,' they do have their uses, as someone mentioned, timing has to be accurate. However, I personnally feel they mask a problem - not solve it. So many people with a dog that has a problem, take their animals out when on one is about - thus meeting other dogs with similar behaviour and therefore enforcing any behavioural problems. Hope this helps.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Lady3131 said:


> I've been recommended by a dog behaviourist to carry a pet corrector to use when out with my pup to try and stop her barking at other dogs when on the lead.
> 
> We've tried distracting with toys and treats but she's having none of it. She's the perfect dog and the barking isn't so much of a problem but it has got her into trouble in the last few weeks as dogs have become quite aggressive towards her. It's important that we stop it as obviously she's sending off the wrong signals (she's actually just nervous and once they come over to say hello she soon shuts up!)
> 
> ...


Not only possible but I would say definite. What a stupid idea. She is already nervous of other dogs, so every time she sees one she gets a blast of air in her face - result, from the dog's point of view: that dog has caused that unpleasantness so now I need to bark even louder or even growl and snarl. Then they will go away and I won't get blasted.

If treats and toys are not working, it is just a guess but I think maybe you are waiting too late to distract her. You need to see the dogs coming and get there before she starts reacting. Then put her into a sit and keep feeding her treats until the danger has past. Put yourself in the way so that she does not see the other dog until he is going past. Alternatively, you can simply turn her back the other way, but before she has time to react.


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## kimdelyse (Sep 6, 2010)

i used one just to "snap him out of it" when Flo was on one of his bossy rants. TBH it worked the first few times because it was a sound he'd never heard before, after that it just spurred him on even more! LOL! They are very expensive...Flo just grew out of his bossyness and we helped by not acknowledging him when he displayed any undesirable behaviour. 

I realise yours is a different problem, Flo's was just "normal" develpment, bu that is my experience/opinion on the Pet Correcter.

Best of luck solving this issue, I'm sure you'll find a method that suits you and your doggy x


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you go know anyone with a non reactive dog you could practice with? My dog Roxy is very reactive with other dogs & hers is probably more excitement than fear. Because of her OTT behaviour though the other dog can react a bit aggressively which then in turn makes her turn.

We have been seeing a behaviourist & working more with the 'look at me' command & worked with the behaviourists dogs who are completely non reactive.

If you could find someone to practice with as other have suggested with treats & start letting her see the other dog at a distance so you are still more of her main focus. As her behaviour improves get the other dog to move closer & repeat.


As others have suggested I would seriously look at changing to another behaviourist or speak to her about your concerns. Just don't be put off by somone who has 'years of experience' - if you are not happy with their methods then change. 

I hope things start to get better for you both


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## springer-lucy (Jan 29, 2011)

I watched an episode of It's Me or The Dog recently and they dealt with this by using the command 'Watch Me' 

Start by holding a yummy smelly treat in front of your face/eyes so the dog looks at you and say 'Watch Me' and if your dog looks at you, praise and reward and repeat while slowly getting your dog to watch you without a treat in front of your face. 

Once this has been achieved you can take it outside and this works best if you can arrange for a friend/family member to bring another dog and walk past you and your dog. 
Before they approach give the command 'watch me', reward and praise and hopefully you'll have his/her attention. The other dog can try to walk by and if your dog reacts, ignore it and try again.

Eventually the dog in the program learned not to bark and that it was much more fun being around other dogs and they even got to the stage of introducing other dogs without a fuss.

Maybe worth a try rather than the corrector?

Good luck!


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

I don't know if this will help you at all but it can make a difference how you approach another dog. From your description of the problem your dog starts to bark when it sees another dog but once they meet she is fine. In my experience when dogs meet head on, face to face, there is always tension. I see this all the time on one of my walks where there is a narrow path fenced on both sides. At any other point on the walk when my dog is darting in and out of the undergrowth and has room to move it is not a problem, but on this particular stretch there is nowhere for him to go and if another dog is coming the opposite way his body language is totally different. He is much more apprehensive, hangs back and approaches more slowly, skulks low with his tail down, almost like a prowling cat, but again like you, once they meet everything changes.

The same thing happens on the lead when walking on a pavement, but if we are in an open space and can veer off to the side and approach that way, it seems to help.


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## beltabout (Dec 11, 2010)

There are a lot of people posting on this without seeing the behaviour or without knowing exactly what the dog is doing. 

I am assuming that you checked the trainer, you got references and you have spent sometime with them letting them get to know you and your dog. You have spent good money out looking for advice. 

In your post you state you have been advised to cary a pet corrector but not said which one.

The problem I think most non experienced trainers have is timing, if you can not train a dog without one, why do people think they will be able to train with one. If the dog has failed with operant positive reinforcement training methods, you have to use other forms and methods if you really want a trained dog sometimes you have to use these methods for a period of time. 

Go back to your trainer and talk through your concerns with them, they should be able to offer another approach if they have sufficient experience, 
But remember the trainer has seen you, the dog and the behaviour we have not.

Good luck

Nick


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Lady3131 said:


> I've been recommended by a dog behaviourist to carry a pet corrector to use when out with my pup to try and stop her barking at other dogs when on the lead.
> 
> We've tried distracting with toys and treats but she's having none of it. She's the perfect dog and the barking isn't so much of a problem but it has got her into trouble in the last few weeks as dogs have become quite aggressive towards her. It's important that we stop it as obviously she's sending off the wrong signals (she's actually just nervous and once they come over to say hello she soon shuts up!)
> 
> ...


You dont say what age your pup is? but there are fear periods in a pups where even ones that seemed just curious before, start to react to sights sounds and situations again with fear and uncertainty. Which is why she might be doing the barking in the first place, its probably got nothing to do with classic aggression, more of a defence mechanism. Most dogs given the opportunity especially pups, given the choice will practice flight ie run away and remove themselves from the danger, or appeasement, submission if they are unsure. On a lead they cant flight, also the lead can hamper body language of submission and appeasement signals. Therefore only option is fight (Not fight per se as such) but defensive barking.

As you have already sussed, its nervousness, once she meets them and gets over the initial uncertainty shes fine. which backs up my theory.

Sometimes dogs wont take treats or toys as in a state of being unsure or fearful they just wont. If you were facing something you were scared of would you stop for a costa coffee and a sarnie?

All you are doing with a pet corrector is punishing and likely to make her more scared, Shes not sure, gets a blast of a scary hissy noise, that heightens her
fear and makes things worse. It can also make her more noise sensitive and phobic and more reactive to enviromental stimulus.

Try high value treats, like cheese, chicken,hot dogs, sausages, liver cake the
cheese spread in tubes usually works, you can get ones with bits of ham in it.
Try these if you havent already.

Ps if you have bought a pet corrector, put it to better use and zap the trainer with it when she makes any other stupid suggestions to use on a young pup.

Hope this helps.


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## Lady3131 (Nov 26, 2009)

Hello!

Thanks for all the replies I would like to add that I am actually very experienced with dog training and *NOT* considering using one of these tools but was discussing my case with another trainer and the term 'pet corrector' came up so I wanted to check what it was!

My pup is 8 months old so definitely could be experiencing her 'fear period' and I have no wish to make things worse 

I am socialising her regularly with other dogs but unfortunately finding non-reactive dogs around here seems to be quite hard. She's been attacked twice in the last two weeks. Once by a dog walker walking 15-20 dogs who appear out of the woods and second by an off-lead staffie (both incidents have set our training back).

In regards to her behaviour i'm pretty sure it is fear and her lack of experience with other dogs (since she's still so young) thus have been treating it with all the usual methods. My main thought is she just needs to get used to being around other dogs so I am considering starting a Meetup for small dogs in our area to try and get her some nice playmates!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Lady3131 said:


> Hello!
> 
> Thanks for all the replies I would like to add that I am actually very experienced with dog training and *NOT* considering using one of these tools but was discussing my case with another trainer and the term 'pet corrector' came up so I wanted to check what it was!
> 
> ...


Don't these so called dog walkers make you mad? How can any one person control 20 dogs? Some of them, and I don't mean all so don't jump on me, just take on any amount of dogs to get money with no thought at all for the consequences.


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## kimdelyse (Sep 6, 2010)

beltabout said:


> In your post you state you have been advised to cary a pet corrector but not said which one.


Pet Corrector is a product rather than a method or description...

Pet Corrector Spray 50ml by The Company of Animals | Pets at Home

It's a very expensive can of compressed air that emits a loud hiss.


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## beltabout (Dec 11, 2010)

kimdelyse said:


> Pet Corrector is a product rather than a method or description...
> 
> Pet Corrector Spray 50ml by The Company of Animals | Pets at Home
> 
> It's a very expensive can of compressed air that emits a loud hiss.


Thanks for that, i have used a fire extinguisher on a bear once who was trashing the back door trying to get in, now I understand!

I use a noise "Tishh" is the best was to describe it, it means NO and is used in competition when I do not want the judges know I am correcting the dog, this is the same but much cheeper, am I doing wrong???

Not sure where you are Lady3131 but I have a few steady, placid and confident dogs. We are NR Leeds & Bradford.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

A local trainer here offers sessions for dogs who have problems with other dogs by using pre selected "stooge" dogs. My young dog and I are often involved as he is very steady with other dogs, regardless of what they are doing. She is BAPDT qualified. Maybe someone near you would offer something similar (BTW, I'm in Scotland. If she could be helpful, PM me)


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## Lady3131 (Nov 26, 2009)

I wish you all lived near me! 

I'm in Central London! I have however, just started a little dog meet in some of the central parks. I listened to what everyone had to say and really think it's about socializing so am trying to get out there and meet some nice dogs! :thumbup:


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