# I was sold 2 sick kittens for full price.



## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Hello, I'm new here and also a new cat owner. And I've been in absolute hell since the day I got the two sick kittens. They were sold to me as healthy, happy, playful and curious kittens (from a breeder who breeds GCCF registered kittens). But they turned out very much the opposite. I've only had them since Saturday, and took them to the vets on Monday for various alarming reasons. The vet had a look at them and here is what we found out:

1. Both are seriously underweight, weighing less than half of what they should at 9 weeks. They were each 450-550grams.
2. Both had blood in their stool (which was completely watery and smelt absolutely awful).
3. One had an eye infection.
4. One had a bit of a raised temperature.

The vet bill turned out to be £100 as we got special food, antibiotics, eye drops, a worming pack... Just about everything.

I paid £300 for these two.

I contacted the breeder who seemed oblivious to the weight and their situation and convinced me they were happy and healthy and had food all of the time available. The breeder agreed to pay out half of the vet bill, but only this time round as I understood it.

I don't have this kind of money laying around for every 10 days to pay out at a vets office.

I've never had anything like this happen to me.

I'm asking if anybody knows my rights towards getting any further compensation towards this and if they have had similar situations before?

Thanks for reading.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm sorry you've been sold sick kittens, that must be awful

Are you sure they are GCCF registered, as I understand that they have rules in place about the age kittens go to their new homes. What breed are they? I don't know what prices breeders charge for other breeds as I'm only really familiar with Siamese, but I though they'd be more than £150 each.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry that your kittens are unwell 
If you have the breeder's GCCF prefix you can complain to the GCCF. There is a specific form on their website to complain about being sold kittens that are ill.
However, I gather that these kittens are not registered as no self-respecting breeder would consider selling a kitten to you at 9 weeks never mind one that was sick and obviously very underweight.
If the kittens are not registered I do not know what the GCCF can do but it maybe worth making a complaint anyway.
Financially I doubt there is anything you can do sadly.


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## catgeoffrey (Jun 28, 2012)

Goodness... That's naughty!
I doubt they are registered if they cost £150 each and poorly.
Breeders are supposed to get kittens health checked and vaccinated before sale. 
What breed are they?


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Right see the breeder does register their kittens, but they had 3 litters at the same time of which 2 were British Shorthair and one was moggy. The kittens had 1 day difference in birth in two of the litters. As they lived quite far away and originally we thought of getting just one kitten or one of her very own litter mates (but then they all sold) and I had always dreamt of a British Shorthair kitten, the breeder said they'd sell the kitten for me now if I wanted him for less as he'd not be registered. The breeder showed me the parents papers (I met both of the the mums as well, the moggy's and the BSH's) and showed that the pure breed kitten had been tested and all sorts. And so home we went...

I did all my research before choosing this specific breeder... I feel so stupid... The kittens were fed a very cheap low nutrional brand supermarket food, and the breeder (when I spoke to them on the phone) asked ME to tell them what to feed their kittens...

I hope this helps clear out any unfilled gaps I left out as I wrote the original post in quite a hurry. I'm just gutted for all of this. And scared for the kittens health. They were very lethargic since Saturday but now they seem to be doing slightly better.

Moggy was £100
BSH was £200 without papers


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## catgeoffrey (Jun 28, 2012)

It might be worth a complaint to GCCF about the breeder and also complain to her about the health of the kittens.
Moggys generally leave home 8-9 weeks (too early but usual) and pedigrees at 12+ weeks
It's not your fault so don't feel stupid! Just look after them and give them love, food and attention and they will bounce back!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

You should have been given a copy of a mating certificate for your BSH so that you can register him/her yourself. If the breeder didn't want to register them herself this perfectly acceptable. If you weren't given that option I would be concerned.
She still should not have sold a kitten that was clearly not well - the weight alone would be enough of a worry for me to think there was something wrong.
It annoys me when 'breeders' offer to sell un-registered kittens for less - the cost of registration is negligible in relation to the cost of raising kittens.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Yeah I've been thinking about it. The breeder seemed just very novice about it all so I feel bad for them for this mistake. I asked if they had vet checked the kittens and they said they had not because nothing seemed to be wrong with them.

My vet told me that basically as pets are sold as goods in the law I could try to get justice done. But right not I'm just so out of energy staying up all night wiping bums, making sure everything is okay with them... And then doing this all alone is the worst part but I guess that's life.

I got a free insurance with the kittens, but I don't know would it even cover this.

I seriously feel just ruined. This whole cat experience has been absolutely all I never even dared to dream about. And I just feel I've been a bad kitten mummy though everybody tells me I have not :/


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

coconuttings said:


> Right see the breeder does register their kittens, *but they had 3 litters at the same time of which 2 were British Shorthair and one was moggy*. The kittens had 1 day difference in birth in two of the litters. As they lived quite far away and originally we thought of getting just one kitten or one of her very own litter mates (but then they all sold) and I had always dreamt of a British Shorthair kitten, the breeder said they'd sell the kitten for me now if I wanted him for less as he'd not be registered. The breeder showed me the parents papers (I met both of the the mums as well, the moggy's and the BSH's) and showed that the pure breed kitten had been tested and all sorts. And so home we went...
> 
> I did all my research before choosing this specific breeder... I feel so stupid... The kittens were fed a very cheap low nutrional brand supermarket food, and the breeder (when I spoke to them on the phone) asked ME to tell them what to feed their kittens...
> 
> ...


Any 'breeder' that is breeding moggies alongside 'so called' peds is unethical. I would have ran a mile before buying kittens from someone like that.

Pity you learnt the hard way. I hope the kittens get well soon.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Don't feel like a bad cat mummy - you have done the right thing in getting your little ones to the vet and hopefully they will be fine now 
Your vet is right in that you should be covered by the sale of goods act but it would mean going through the small claims court to get any recompense and even if the court found in your favour you still may not get any money.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Yeah I guess you are completely right. Only they don't breed the crossbreed, it just ran out one day (according to their story) and bam, pregnant. Though if you are a breeder and have a pet cat for company you'd get them fixed.

I didn't see it coming, I was hoping with all my heart that this experience would go well. But I had to learn it the hard way.

I thought as I was buying my first kitten off a breeder who's cat had accidentally gotten pregnant that they'd give the kittens the type of care and knowledge etc that you'd expect from a breeder. This was my reason for going for this breeder. As I said, originally I only wanted a moggy but the chance opened up for the BSH kitten.

God I AM stupid :/ Just came here to confirm that I suppose... :/

EDIT: // And well if there's nothing but trouble with going through the trading goods then it's not worth my time which I should be fully giving to these kittens in the first place. My vet also said I have full rights in demanding my money back from the breeder and giving the kittens back to her. Too bad I've already grown attached to them, but I'll have to seriously think this through..


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

I was sold my GCCF registered Queen at nine weeks with one vaccination - when I queried the age I was told the GCCF guidelines re 13 weeks was a recommendation not a rule - I now have my first litter of pedigree kittens (mine was sold to me on the active) which are nine weeks and between 1280 and 1600 grammes and I wouldnt dream of letting them go to their new homes before 13 weeks as to me they are still small babies. In hindsight my Queen was small for nine weeks although probably not as small as your kittens. Im sorry to hear you have had problems with them - people can be unscrupulous whether they be GCCF registered or not. Please dont think you are stupid, as I said I bought my kitten at nine weeks and I was persuaded by the breeder that this was fine, I was just lucky not to have any problems.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Dont feel sorry for the breeders who sold these kittens well before they were ready they shouldnt have done so simple as..also you cant 100% blame them as you could have put down a deposit and collected them when ready thats how it works..

Another byb just pocketed a nice easy £300 i sorry but people never learn and it drives me crazy when there is good hard working honest breeders that have trouble getting good homes for their kittens because of these kind of breeders selling cheap,underaged kittens people think there getting a bargain..think again.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

The fact she's breeding moggies (expensive ones at that!) alongside her pedigrees sounds worrying, definitely try contacting the GCCF.

I hope your kittens get well soon


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

You are not stupid  Naive perhaps but we can only learn from our mistakes. I can totally understand your thinking that a moggy from pedigree breeder ought to have been brought up properly but there are breeders and there are Breeders. And I agree that a moggy companion should have been neutered too.
Please don't let this awful experience stop your enjoyment of your kittens


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Supporting BYB... One thing I never ever ever ever wanted to do. I'm against that. And I did that. I put down a deposit on the moggy and yeah I agree she was expensive but I thought I was paying for the experience. I certainly have learned from this. I'm sorry for anybody that I upset with this as well. I really really am sorry 

If anybody gets a better feeling, the kittens are playful and their stools have turned to pretty much normal in a bit over 30 hours from changing their food.

I'll be contacting GCCF and telling about this.

Money in the end isn't my biggest concern though it really does not seem like it from what I have re-read my posts.

When the time comes for another cat, be it when these two have passed on... (in many many many years to come hopefully) I'll be twice the wiser and go for a breeder with the experience and knowledge and understanding towards the breed instead. One who cares for her cats.

Yet again, sorry for all who felt rage for my actions... 

EDIT:// My BSH has the most precious nature and if I don't get anything else good out of this he sure is true to breed in the cuddle-monster type of way. He purrs the second you just look at him! And my moggy, she is just plain gorgeous, loves attention but isn't really a lap cat, and I'd not have it any other way.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Did you say they came with free insurance? You need to look into this as it should pay the vet bills whatever they are. Insurance is insurance!

Also, its not unusual for kittens to become ill and have upset tummies on arriving at their new homes due to stress. Im sure once they have been wormed, vaccinated and fattened up, it will be plain sailing and you can then enjoy the pleasures of being a cat owner.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

coconuttings said:


> Yeah I guess you are completely right. Only they don't breed the crossbreed, it just ran out one day (according to their story) and bam, pregnant. Though if you are a breeder and have a pet cat for company you'd get them fixed.
> 
> I didn't see it coming, I was hoping with all my heart that this experience would go well. But I had to learn it the hard way.
> 
> ...


There's nothing to stop you from asking for your money back and returning the kittens. But I wouldn't hold your breath that the 'breeder' will do the ethical thing as her breeding practices are the pits.

She's most likely laughing her head off at gaining £300 for a pair of moggies because without the relevant paperwork, you've most likely purchased two mogs, not one ped and one mog as you've been led to believe 

I can't help wondering, simply because I'm cynical, what _research_ did you do? BSH isn't 'my' breed, but even I know there are plenty of ethical BSH breeders out there. If you'd have researched fully you'd have been spoilt for choice.


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## ejrogers (Sep 7, 2009)

This sounds horribly familiar to what happened to me when I naively bought my BSH kitten in August last year. I was very naive and believed what the breeder told me, she let the kitten come home with me at 9 wks, she (the kitten) was unregistered due to the mother cat having gotten pregnant by accident even though both mother and father were pedigrees, I was also told the kittens had been vet checked and were perfectly healthy and so I paid £250 for her.
The kitten I bought did seem very healthy when I saw her, clear eyes, playful, eating well etc but was very small, only 500g however I was told this was fine at 9wks.
Within 2 days she had developed sickness and diarrhoea and was diagnosed with Giardia and T Foetus which the vet thought likely came from her mother.
Our insurance dudn't cover our vet bills as it started in the first 14 days so it has cost us an absolute fortune!
An expensive lesson to learn but don't beat yourself up over it, we learn with experience and never make the same mistake twice, just look after your little kitties and get them well again.

Just out of interest whereabouts in the country was your breeder?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

coconuttings said:


> Supporting BYB... One thing I never ever ever ever wanted to do. I'm against that. And I did that. I put down a deposit on the moggy and yeah I agree she was expensive but I thought I was paying for the experience. I certainly have learned from this. I'm sorry for anybody that I upset with this as well. I really really am sorry
> 
> If anybody gets a better feeling, the kittens are playful and their stools have turned to pretty much normal in a bit over 30 hours from changing their food.
> 
> ...


You sound really nice i have to admit, its not nice what they have done.

I can imagine how angry you must feel if they are doing things like this they will be struck off soon enough.

They do sound like idiots.

I hope your kittens turn a corner and give you much enjoyment you deserve it.Good luck.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Ang2 said:


> Did you say they came with free insurance? You need to look into this as it should pay the vet bills whatever they are. Insurance is insurance!
> 
> Also, its not unusual for kittens to become ill and have upset tummies on arriving at their new homes due to stress. Im sure once they have been wormed, vaccinated and fattened up, it will be plain sailing and you can then enjoy the pleasures of being a cat owner.


If its petplan the new owner will have to pay the 1st 85 pounds (just gone up) worth of vets bill after that it will be covered. So i doubt the insurance will be of any use for minor treatments such as upset bellys or whatever.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> If its petplan the new owner will have to pay the 1st 85 pounds (just gone up) worth of vets bill after that it will be covered. So i doubt the insurance will be of any use for minor treatments such as upset bellys or whatever.


It may not turn out to be minor though. The kittens hopefully will improve soon, but it could turn out to be a costly issue in which case it's vital the OP carries on with the insurance, taking out a full policy before the free period ends.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Well... yeah research and research. I thought I knew what I was doing basically. I had gotten them the best products I thought there was with the range I was willing to pay for. Such as thought already of weaning them off that horrible food to Applaws as I'd need to really learn the proper way to do raw food which I'm very interested in. Secondly I kitten proofed the house to a standard and made sure there were/are no hazards in the way. Everything was set and done and I decided to look for the breeder and there is was, I just had a good feeling about it. Seemed genuine and loving, and actually - not to think now about this situation - the breeder has been some what co-operative all the way through. She e-mailed me today that she has bought some good quality food (then again who knows) and she is willing to give £50 towards this vet bill.

But as you all may have noticed I try to be kind and polite and I get done a lot for that and should learn to just realise that not all people are quite the same.

I guess the research I should have done should have been more towards the breeder than how it will be once the kitten is home.

Thanks for everybody for all these responses  I have taken them all to thought and have realised that there are two involved in Back yard breeding: the breeder and the buyer. But just to have experienced it I sure wish I could help others with my experience if they are reading this etc.

Luckily I have a partner so we are able to deal with the bills. And as the kittens have already had major improvement all that I just want is for their weights to get to a good number, the eye infection to go and I'm sure the girl no longer has a fever.

I'll keep this updated and tell how it went at the vets if anyone wants to know about Nidi and Marvin


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## Oscars mam (Aug 22, 2011)

Oh I do hope they continue to improve  any chance we can see pics ??


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

dougal22 said:


> It may not turn out to be minor though. The kittens hopefully will improve soon, but it could turn out to be a costly issue in which case it's vital the OP carries on with the insurance, taking out a full policy before the free period ends.


Oh yeah still worth having..just incase,my point was its a bit of a ass when you think your covered full stop then get to vets and realise you have to pay the 1st 85 quids woth of treatment.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

It´s no use crying over spilt milk, now you need to move on and make sure your two little ones blossom. Welcome to pf.

To my fellow fp members, I have to say I expected someone to have stated the obvious. We need payment in pics. We want to meet the kitties.


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## Oscars mam (Aug 22, 2011)

merlin12 said:


> It´s no use crying over spilt milk, now you need to move on and make sure your two little ones blossom. Welcome to pf.
> 
> To my fellow fp members, I have to say I expected someone to have stated the obvious. We need payment in pics. We want to meet the kitties.


Hehe already asked for em


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Haha alright then guys calm down pics will be coming up, I've got about 1000 of them already 

They are seriously tiny, and also if someone can evaluate wether or not Marvin is pure breed just from pics that'd be appreciated so that I can start looking at insurances for either 2 moggies or 1 moggy and 1 BSH.

Question... how do I put pictures here? +å

EDIT: // Nidi stepped on the keyboard, hence the "+å" 

EDIT": // Someone asked about where the breeder was, she's in Telford  She has a website... And I'm ashamed to say she breeds purebreed dogs (only 1 breed) too... Yeah, BYB definitely. But I just wanted to think she wasn't.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Without papers many will say that = moggy im afraid.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Okay, so moggy then. He's all as special to me in any case.


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## Oscars mam (Aug 22, 2011)

For pics you will need to use a photo site like photo bucket etc then use the image code to upload on to her ( hope I've explained that right)


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

coconuttings said:


> Okay, so moggy then. He's all as special to me in any case.


Well its just you only have their word for it if you get me they have given you no proof.

Im sure they are both very cute though what colour are they  oh and what breed?


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

coconuttings said:


> Okay, so moggy then. He's all as special to me in any case.


Exactly, every cat is special. Breed or no breed. You wanted a pet and you have one, enjoy the experience and make us proud of how you nurse them back to good health.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

BSH, Marvin, is cream. Nidi the moggy (1/4 Russian Blue apparently) is a tabby. I'll put pics up in just a second after I wash up the kittens food plates and do the litter box.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

If the pics are in your computer - go to manage attachments. Then upload file from your computer + browse then when you have 2 or 3 press upload.
If your pics are in photobucket press picture icon^(above arrow) and enter the URL.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

coconuttings said:


> BSH, Marvin, is cream. Nidi the moggy (1/4 Russian Blue apparently) is a tabby. I'll put pics up in just a second after I wash up the kittens food plates and do the litter box.


I get why they said russian blue you imagine a moggy cat with the color of a blue bsh its going to look like x russian..i expect the moggy has been put to their own bsh boy this obviously is just my thinking and not fact.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

coconuttings said:


> Haha alright then guys calm down pics will be coming up, I've got about 1000 of them already
> 
> They are seriously tiny, and also if someone can evaluate wether or not Marvin is pure breed just from pics that'd be appreciated so that I can start looking at insurances for either 2 moggies or 1 moggy and 1 BSH.
> 
> ...


Without papers, they're mogs, so better to insure them as such 

Please don't let the insurance lapse. If possible, seek out a member on here, Albert Ross, to ask about pet insurance. He's very good with insurance info.

I really wish you the very best. Having been in a similar situation with a very sick pedigree kitten who was from a 'reputable' breeder, I feel your pain.

Best wishes to you and the kittens


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

:lol: Just had a quick look at the website :lol:

PMSL at the spelling mistakes


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

dougal22 said:


> :lol: Just had a quick look at the website :lol:
> 
> PMSL at the spelling mistakes


OOh pm me this website


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> OOh pm me this website


Sent 

Now don't get pinching any ideas for your own website :lol:


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

The breeder is absolute rubbish at spelling I noticed that as first. God how could I not realise someone who can't spell isn't exactly a first class breeder?...

But I wish not to "bitch" about her. I'm not the type to do that. I just feel awful still and probs will feel until the kittens are good.

Here's a few pics  The quality isn't the best, sorry!

EDIT:// No idea why they are at the awkward angles!

EDIT:// I'll try to get better pics when the two wake up or then tomorrow. Marvin is nearly almost always asleep when it's good lighting and Nidi hardly ever stays still haha


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

coconuttings said:


> The breeder is absolute rubbish at spelling I noticed that as first. God how could I not realise someone who can't spell isn't exactly a first class breeder?...
> 
> But I wish not to "bitch" about her. I'm not the type to do that. I just feel awful still and probs will feel until the kittens are good.
> 
> ...


Erm, I am being a git about the spelling :lol: It's my pet hate!!!! Especially to that degree!!!!!

Being able to spell or not is no indication of a good/bad breeder. But the clues that this person is a BYB screams from that website and I've only glanced at it.

The kittens look very cute but small


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

dougal22 said:


> Sent
> 
> Now don't get pinching any ideas for your own website :lol:


lol pleeease let me...seriously that site is a utter joke im laughing at all the things they things they have tested that russian x for..like yeah ok.

Spelling is not my strong point but really they have made no effort there at all.

As for that kitten they have kept back that is not breed quality at all just look at it the ears are huge it doesnt look good at all.

Oh dear.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

I don't know a lot about cats but they are very pretty. :001_wub:


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> OOh pm me this website


It's in the ad...
It's a hoot, really.
I have seen fewer spelling mistakes in non-native schoolkids just learning English.....


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Ok, you need to report this breeder to GCCF. It doesn't matter whether they register your kittens or not. As long as they have a GCCF prefix, they need to abide by rules. Rules state that they cannot sell kittens that are sick, and, if they are selling a kitten advertised as a pedigree, they must provide a minimum of a 3 generation pedigree signed by the breeder, together with a mating certificate which will enable you to register your own kitten with the GCCF should you so choose.

Then you have recommendations. The GCCF recommends that kittens do not go to their new home until 13 weeks of age. Although this is not a rule, it is heavily frowned upon if they go younger.

you have a case with the sickness and lack of papers alone, so I'd get on it pronto.

So sorry to hear you're going through this. If there's anything at all I can do to help, answering questions, pointing you in the right direction for reporting her, please don't hesitate to ask.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

coconuttings said:


> Okay, so moggy then. He's all as special to me in any case.


Sorry but I have had to move the link to the advert for legal reasons.
Your kittens do look very cute :001_wub:


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

coconuttings said:


> The breeder is absolute rubbish at spelling I noticed that as first. God how could I not realise someone who can't spell isn't exactly a first class breeder?...
> 
> But I wish not to "bitch" about her. I'm not the type to do that. I just feel awful still and probs will feel until the kittens are good.
> 
> ...


They are absolutely lovely!!!!!!


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## catgeoffrey (Jun 28, 2012)

Your furbabies are beautiful!


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## Oscars mam (Aug 22, 2011)

coconuttings said:


> BSH, Marvin, is cream. Nidi the moggy (1/4 Russian Blue apparently) is a tabby. I'll put pics up in just a second after I wash up the kittens food plates and do the litter box.


Awww what a gorgeous pair they are


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Your kittens are absolutely gorgeous - my girl was very small at nine weeks but god did she make up for it by eating anything and everything for the first few weeks!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> my girl was very small at nine weeks but god did she make up for it by eating anything and everything for the first few weeks!


There's your first clue as to why people want to sell kittens young. Registration costs very little, vaccinations cost more, food and cat litter for a litter of growing kittens from 9 to 13 weeks costs a fortune. It's also a lot of hard work.


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## vivien (Jul 20, 2009)

Your kittens are gorgeous,. Please don't beat yourself up about the BYB I too made this mistake but I paid a heavy price for it. I have had moggies and I had a rescue Persian colourpoint, all lived to a ripe old age 18 - 20 years old. Then when my ageing boy Buster was nearing his 20th year I thought I would get a Ragdoll kitten as I had got all my kitten out of the paper before I saw no reason when an advert said Ragdoll kittens accidental mating hence no papers. I wasn't on any forums as I was still learning the computer so other than FB I really didn't have any help. Right back to my story, I bought Bailey I had seen his mum and dad all kittens looked healthy so he came home with me. From day one he was ill, and so this carried on he ate loads but didn't put weight on, then a few days before his 1st birthday I lost him to dry FIP his last 2 weeks were spent in the vet hospital I was absolutely gutted he was my baby. The next time I looked for a kitten I googled the blue Peter ragdolls and met Chris and now I have Tiga a beautifull seal colour pointed tabby Ragdoll. And I have Max my big black moggy and last but not least I have my newest Ragdoll Simba a seal bi colour ragdoll. But I would not of got through loseing Bailey if it wasn't for my very good friend Chinablue who I met when trawling the net trying to find information on what was wrong with Bailey to see if there was any help out there for this awfull desease . I met Chinablue on a Ragdoll website and she invited me to join here and I have never looked back. 

Viv xx


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

It makes me so cross to see people being ripped off by these BYBs (registered or not!!). I am sorry you had a negative experience but hopefully you can now move on and your lovely kittens will blossom with lots of TLC they will receive from you.

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but research is the key when thinking of buying a pedigree kitten. If someone is selling a "pedigree" kitten for £150-£200 then your alarm bells should be clanging! It makes me want to alternatively laugh hysterically and then weep when I see adverts like I saw the other day "_*quality*_" Ragdoll kittens - no papers hence price but mum can be seen - £250.... 9 weeks." And not vaccinated....aarrgghh:nono: So a moggie in other words and expensive at that.


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## Sussexplumber (Oct 5, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> Don't feel like a bad cat mummy - you have done the right thing in getting your little ones to the vet and hopefully they will be fine now
> Your vet is right in that you should be covered by the sale of goods act but it would mean going through the small claims court to get any recompense and even if the court found in your favour you still may not get any money.


In your shoes, I might take it to Court, given what you claim... hoping the defendant wouldn`t turn up-which is often the case. You`d get a judgement by default. How old should a kitten be before leaving his mum?

I had a case like this a few years back with two Harris hawks, bought from a guy in Ringmer near Lewes. I took them back the next day, got a full refund. They weren`t ill, but weren`t what he claimed.

I`m wondering if the kittens are what they were advertised/sold as, because if not, isnt that fraud?

Lyn is right that you may not recover any money, even if you win. Do you have a definite full name and address of this person?

By the way, I found this link.... http://paag.org.uk/buying-a-pet/report/


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I might take it to Court, given what you claim... hoping the defendant wouldn`t turn up-which is often the case


If they do defend then the title of this thread wouldn't be a valid case. The supposed pedigree kitten was not 'full price' at all. There's enough evidence available to show what is the current rate for a pedigree kitten.


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## NEW2CATS (Aug 28, 2009)

awww they are gorgeous - i especially like the tabby mog.


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## AlfiesArk (Mar 10, 2011)

Just caught up on this one... not sure how I missed it. Sorry you had such an awful experience but you've got 2 little cuties out of it!!! How are they doing now??


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Good morning/day everybody! Kittens are sleeping in my lap now as I type this. Thanks for everybody, I feel that I've gotten so much help but most of all support from this forum. It's made me regain some strength from this horrible situation and actually think about my actions as well as my rights. Someone said there is no point crying over spilt milk and so I'm not going to loathe in self-pity, but take actions.

The breeder took off one of the adverts on pets4homes, which was basically titled: pedigree BSH kittens sold as pets, no papers, £200. She did not say my boy would be vaccinated etc. But I paid for two healthy kittens, that's what the "full price" was about.

The girl seems to have gained slight weight. I don't own a scale so I can't really look at the weight gain, but I can feel just a very thin slice of meat between her bones and skin. The boy is still very thin, so I upped their feeding portions a bit hoping that will help. I do not want to over feed them and then they get even more ill. They have not pooped since yesterday though, which I find odd, and they don't drink at all from the water bowl. The girls gums seem a bit white. Should I be very concerned? We have a time for next Thursday at the vets... The boy has light pink gums.

I'd definitely appreciate any sort of help etc regarding my case and reporting to GCCF and further on. I really don't have a clue where to start. Please, if anybody can help, I'd be forever thankful.

One thing is very good and that is that the kittens have great appetite and play a lot and sleep normal amounts. Both seem to love attention and get jealous if one is getting a cuddle. The girl meows continuously for attention, the boy purrs. Now, I know that purring isn't always good as well, so is there a chance the boy is trying to message me that he is really doing unwell? He purrs whenever anybody looks at him, picks him up, pets him, gives him food or cuddles him.

Thanks also for saying my kitties are cute  They truly are even better irl! And well, even if it is not good that they are so small, it might make them even more cute. They can't go down the stairs, the stairs are too big for them still. But they have plenty of space to run and play upstairs.

I don't know what much to write here right now... I woke up during the night multiple times to make sure both of them were still breathing... I fear they just won't make a recovery in which case I'd be crushed... But not thinking about that now!

Should I buy a water fountain to get them to drink more? They only eat wet food at the moment (vet said only the wet food she gave, and water until next Thursday) so is it possible they don't need to drink any water with that? They don't use the toilet as often either, and when they have a wee it's very small.

Sorry for the long response! Hope everybody is doing well


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

if the girls gums are white you need a vet today.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> pedigree BSH kittens sold as pets, no papers, £200


Your problem with any complaint or action is that this ad was worded correctly and there hasn't been any misrepresentation. If the words 'no papers' hadn't been there it *may* have been a different story. There is no legal definition of the term 'pedigree'. To me it means a registered kitten but the courts tend to follow a wider definition that it is a recognised breed and the kitten's parents/grandparents are known.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

vivien said:


> Your kittens are gorgeous,. Please don't beat yourself up about the BYB I too made this mistake but I paid a heavy price for it. I have had moggies and I had a rescue Persian colourpoint, all lived to a ripe old age 18 - 20 years old. Then when my ageing boy Buster was nearing his 20th year I thought I would get a Ragdoll kitten as I had got all my kitten out of the paper before I saw no reason when an advert said Ragdoll kittens accidental mating hence no papers. I wasn't on any forums as I was still learning the computer so other than FB I really didn't have any help. Right back to my story, I bought Bailey I had seen his mum and dad all kittens looked healthy so he came home with me. From day one he was ill, and so this carried on he ate loads but didn't put weight on, then a few days before his 1st birthday I lost him to dry FIP his last 2 weeks were spent in the vet hospital I was absolutely gutted he was my baby. The next time I looked for a kitten I googled the blue Peter ragdolls and met Chris and now I have Tiga a beautifull seal colour pointed tabby Ragdoll. And I have Max my big black moggy and last but not least I have my newest Ragdoll Simba a seal bi colour ragdoll. But I would not of got through loseing Bailey if it wasn't for my very good friend Chinablue who I met when trawling the net trying to find information on what was wrong with Bailey to see if there was any help out there for this awfull desease . I met Chinablue on a Ragdoll website and she invited me to join here and I have never looked back.
> 
> Viv xx


I'm so very sorry for what happened to you, and I also worry that this might happen to me. I know pets are not forever, but gosh a year is a short time for ones life - and it's a long time to fall in love with someone and learn to care for them as you did with Bailey. I'm so sorry for your loss, but also am glad you gained knowledge and not one but three beautiful cats from it. (btw congrats on the newest one, if he's a recent addition to the family!)

If I may ask - knowing how ever painful it must be to talk about it - what kind of illness did Bailey seem to have from the first day? Was it FIP all along?


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## AlfiesArk (Mar 10, 2011)

Glad to hear they are settling in, I'd get the white gums checked out though! If they are eating wet food they do get quite a bit of moisture from that. Alfie has a water fountain which he does use but he's not a massive drinker unless he's had quite a bit of dry food.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> if the girls gums are white you need a vet today.


Just checked in proper day light with my partners sharp eyes -> the gums are lighter on the girl than the boy. Not white white, but a pale pink. I'll try to take a picture of it in a second (though cameras can lie...) I am very concerned now.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

havoc said:


> Your problem with any complaint or action is that this ad was worded correctly and there hasn't been any misrepresentation. If the words 'no papers' hadn't been there it *may* have been a different story. There is no legal definition of the term 'pedigree'. To me it means a registered kitten but the courts tend to follow a wider definition that it is a recognised breed and the kitten's parents/grandparents are known.


Yeah, I do think you'r quite right, unfortunately. It said on the ad itself no papers, no pedigree, just a pet. But she was selling the same kitten for £125 more with pedigree. It would have ben smarter for me to buy him with the pedigree now that I think of it. It's just I've never needed pedigree pets before, and my moggy isn't pedigree but that's quite obvious she can't be.

The more I listen to myself the more I see how naive I was about getting these two kittens from that breeder...


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## NEW2CATS (Aug 28, 2009)

coconuttings said:


> Just checked in proper day light with my partners sharp eyes -> the gums are lighter on the girl than the boy. Not white white, but a pale pink. I'll try to take a picture of it in a second (though cameras can lie...) I am very concerned now.


It might be worth at least calling the vet for some advice


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

NEW2CATS said:


> It might be worth at least calling the vet for some advice


Yes I would call the vet and say the girl's gums are pale.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

coconuttings said:


> Hello, I'm new here and also a new cat owner. And I've been in absolute hell since the day I got the two sick kittens. They were sold to me as healthy, happy, playful and curious kittens (from a breeder who breeds GCCF registered kittens). But they turned out very much the opposite. I've only had them since Saturday, and took them to the vets on Monday for various alarming reasons. The vet had a look at them and here is what we found out:
> 
> 1. Both are seriously underweight, weighing less than half of what they should at 9 weeks. They were each 450-550grams.
> 2. Both had blood in their stool (which was completely watery and smelt absolutely awful).
> ...


Firstly I'm very sorry that you have found yourself in this situation. You've clearly bought from an unscrupulous breeder and it's such a shame that this is your introduction to cat ownership. Please don't be put off by this, the majority of GCCF breeders are responsible people who have a real passion for cats.

With regards to the vet bills, I hate to say this but if you cannot either budget for these yourself or put in place insurance to cover them then why on earth did you take on these cats? £100 is a very low vet bill indeed, on multiple occasions we have had vet bills for between £1000 and £5000. Admittedly these were major illnesses but when you take on an animal you must be prepared for any eventuality. Eight years ago our 1 year old kitten had to undergo major life saving treatment, the cost was £1000 and even though he was insured the money to pay the vets had to be produced at the time of treatment. Not only older pets become ill. I hope I don't offend with this because I have the best intentions, but please put something in place now whether it's an insurance policy or opening a savings account.

Legally, you could reject the kittens for not being as described (fit and healthy) but would you really want to hand them back to the breeder? I'm sure you have bonded with them and clearly you are already doing better by them than the breeder has. If you keep them you could persue the breeder in the small claims court but that will involve time, expense and stress which even if you win you may never receive a penny. Personally, I'd rather put my efforts into the kittens.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The more I listen to myself the more I see how naive I was about getting these two kittens from that breeder...


Always easy to be wise after the event, no point beating yourself up over it.



> It would have ben smarter for me to buy him with the pedigree


The pedigree is produced by the breeder and isn't an official document so you were actually wise not to pay the extra - a lot extra


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

O dear, I'm afraid this is a classic case of being caught out because you haven't done your research first. Paying £100 for a 9 week old moggy? Accepting a pedigree at 9 weeks? I'm afraid you only have two choices now - take the kittens back or accept the fact that you are going to have to pay the vet bills.

Liz


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> 1. Both are seriously underweight, weighing less than half of what they should at 9 weeks. They were each 450-550grams.
> 2. Both had blood in their stool (which was completely watery and smelt absolutely awful).
> 3. One had an eye infection.
> 4. One had a bit of a raised temperature.


Does this 'breeder' have any kittens left? The RSPCA should be interested.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Grace_Lily said:


> Firstly I'm very sorry that you have found yourself in this situation. You've clearly bought from an unscrupulous breeder and it's such a shame that this is your introduction to cat ownership. Please don't be put off by this, the majority of GCCF breeders are responsible people who have a real passion for cats.
> 
> With regards to the vet bills, I hate to say this but if you cannot either budget for these yourself or put in place insurance to cover them then why on earth did you take on these cats? £100 is a very low vet bill indeed, on multiple occasions we have had vet bills for between £1000 and £5000. Admittedly these were major illnesses but when you take on an animal you must be prepared for any eventuality. Eight years ago our 1 year old kitten had to undergo major life saving treatment, the cost was £1000 and even though he was insured the money to pay the vets had to be produced at the time of treatment. Not only older pets become ill. I hope I don't offend with this because I have the best intentions, but please put something in place now whether it's an insurance policy or opening a savings account.
> 
> Legally, you could reject the kittens for not being as described (fit and healthy) but would you really want to hand them back to the breeder? I'm sure you have bonded with them and clearly you are already doing better by them than the breeder has. If you keep them you could persue the breeder in the small claims court but that will involve time, expense and stress which even if you win you may never receive a penny. Personally, I'd rather put my efforts into the kittens.


I understand what you are saying and I'm not taking offence to it. The kittens have been home less than a week and so I've not had any time to look at insurances for them, but will do very soon. £100 is a small amount for 2 kittens, I admit. But this money could have been used for vaccinations to prevent these sort of things happening the best we could.

----

BTW I just rang my vet and they said to bring her in if I was concerned, but I rechecked their gums and they both seem to be a light pink colour, a clear difference between the tooth colour and the gum colour. My boyfriend just made them drink some water with a pipette, the girl drank it very well. We'll keep doing so and keep track the gum colour. Also their tongues are a very lovely shade or darker pink than what the gums are.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

havoc said:


> Does this 'breeder' have any kittens left? The RSPCA should be interested.


One kitten left I think for sale and some still waiting to go home. The dogs are outside in small cages what I saw a glimpse of them at least. Might've seen wrong. I'll contact RSPCA about this and ask what they think of it. Thanks for the hint


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2012)

I just wanted to say that I am so glad these kittens have been homed by you, because from what you say in your posts you actually seem really knowledgeable about cat health so they're in good hands


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I'll contact RSPCA about this and ask what they think of it


Make sure they know what your vet found. Failure to obtain necessary veterinary care is a criminal offence and I doubt the other kittens are in any better state.


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

NexivRed said:


> I just wanted to say that I am so glad these kittens have been homed by you, because from what you say in your posts you actually seem really knowledgeable about cat health so they're in good hands


Thank you  Those are very kind words. These two are my babies and at the vets on Monday I said for my vet to do anything possible to help them get better - we were willing to pay the price. These two get lots of TLC from me and all of the family members. I even count the meat chunks in their foods to make sure it's equal... I just want the best for them. Right now they seem okay I suppose... Both of them seem to have gotten enough of me continuously checking their gums haha (I'm a concerned cat mommy).

Don't any of you worry, I will take them to the vets if I keep on222222222222222 (sorry cat walked over laptop)´6§ (and again)

What I was saying is I will take them to the vets if they become lethargic, refuse food, their stools seem to bother them / change colour and texture for worse etc.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

you do have insurance though don't you? You got a week with kittens. I'm not sure how you stand re extending it if kits are still poorly - it may be covered by your first week as it's ongoing. I will pm Albert Ross and ask him if you like.


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## nbaker (Sep 19, 2012)

Is there any evidence that the breeder is actually GCCF registered or is she just quoting that to look official?


Anyway your kiitens look lovely and I hope they get better very soon.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

coconuttings said:


> One kitten left I think for sale and some still waiting to go home. *The dogs are outside in small cages what I saw a glimpse of them at least.* Might've seen wrong. I'll contact RSPCA about this and ask what they think of it. Thanks for the hint


Oh my god, the more I read about this 'breeder' the more awful it gets  poor dogs


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## coconuttings (Oct 30, 2012)

Luz said:


> you do have insurance though don't you? You got a week with kittens. I'm not sure how you stand re extending it if kits are still poorly - it may be covered by your first week as it's ongoing. I will pm Albert Ross and ask him if you like.


Yeah if you'd do that I'd appreciate it. I have insurance for them yes. came with them, it's for a month with Petplan.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Is there any evidence that the breeder is actually GCCF registered


I can guarantee there won't be - there's no such thing as a GCCF registered breeder.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

Oh good! I will PM him!


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## vivien (Jul 20, 2009)

coconuttings said:


> I'm so very sorry for what happened to you, and I also worry that this might happen to me. I know pets are not forever, but gosh a year is a short time for ones life - and it's a long time to fall in love with someone and learn to care for them as you did with Bailey. I'm so sorry for your loss, but also am glad you gained knowledge and not one but three beautiful cats from it. (btw congrats on the newest one, if he's a recent addition to the family!)
> 
> If I may ask - knowing how ever painful it must be to talk about it - what kind of illness did Bailey seem to have from the first day? Was it FIP all along?


Bailey had breathing difficulties when he played he would get out of breath and he kept getting conjuntivitis, he also would eat lots but never put weight on the vet treated him for all these conditions but it is due to a virus called the corona virus and you cannot 100% tell its FIP unless you have a post Mortum but he had several blood tests which showed his blood had I think too many white blood cells and something was in his blood that was low in count I am not very good at describing the symptoms but the vet said it was dry FIP there are 2 kinds wet where they bloat up with fluid and dry which I now know starts the way Bailey did. I don't think your babies will have this dreadfull desease I think yours is more likely to be poorly tummies because of poor feeding as tiny babies FI P is still quite rare so please don't worry, I would definatly have pet insurance though as Max back in the summer had his lymph nodes swell and it turned out to be a virus. He had to have a major operation to get a sample and be tested for lymphoma but thankfully he was clear and that cost a whopping £1500.00 so I am glad I had insurance. I am with pet plan for life policy they are dearer but for life policies are best. I hope your kittens are on the mend

Viv xx


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The GCCF do have a list of registered prefixes


Yes they do but they don't have a list of registered breeders. If you look at the suspension lists you will find the prefix box is empty in many cases. It quite clearly states on the code of ethics that "Registered owners of all GCCF registered cats/kittens accept the jurisdiction of the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy". Prefix holders are no more and no less subject to the rules than any owner of a GCCF registered cat. Once *purchased* a prefix is *owned* by the purchaser hence they remain on the GCCF prefix list even if the owner is suspended. Suggesting that because a prefix is on the GCCF list the breeder is trustworthy and ethical can give buyers a very false sense of security.


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## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

Albert said you should be able to continue your insurance with Petplan if you wish.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Hi,

Luz kindly PM'ed me with your story.

You need, without delay, to phone Pet Plan and ask them - and the words are VERY important - "to continue the policy". You do not want a new policy.

If you continue it then any illnesses will be covered in future. If you get a new policy then they'll exclude anything that's currently wrong or _could be construed as similar to what's currently wrong_.

Pet Plan is a comparatively expensive insurer (sorry!) but they are probably the best on the market.

If you go to any other company they will exclude, from all future claims, anything that's currently wrong or looks like it could be the same.

To find out more - click the link in my sig below and then click 'Free Report'. That'll tell you everything there is to know about pet insurance. Look on the 'Cat' page of the site and you'll see briefly what Pet Plan offer. Hover over 'Pet Plan' and you'll see details of what they offer.

If you get a problem with them then PM me if you can here or use the contact form on my site and drop me a message. Everyone here will do their best to help (even though we argue amongst ourselves from time to time you are in safe and knowledgeable hands!)

Al


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## Blacam (Nov 5, 2013)

This sounds exactly like My experience I have just bought a british shorthair Kitten from a breeder for £200 (i am not convinced he is even pedigree looks like he has been crossed to me she runs a cattery so I thought all must be well but he has been sick since he arrived home & i have tried everything as per her instructions but he still has diarohea with traces of blood every now & then.its awful he has been wormed twice so its not that & changed to bland diet but nothing has worked he to looks very underweight & the vets have told me he cannot be the age she states & to make it worse his vaccination card says he is 6 months old despite her telling me he was 14 wks i dont know where i stand i have already spent £50 & the stool sample the vet advised is a further £70 & so far she has not offered to pay she promised me a call back two days ago i am still waiting help what do i do?


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