# 'Presweiler'



## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

What do we think?

Outrage as Scottish owners cross rottweiler with world's scariest dog - The Daily Record

I have to disagree with the bit where it says 'two dangerous breeds' - Rotties are not a dangerous breed. I don't know anything about the other breed.

Editing to say that No, I don't agree with them doing this at all - more BYB making up new crosses to make a quick ££ is just wrong :frown2:


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## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

No comments on this???


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## Mophie (Sep 20, 2011)

I think the fact they're doing it purely for cash is stupid especially planning ahead to make the money. But also there is point that the inbreeding isn't doing the pedirees any good at all.

Aside from that the idiots saying they'd made a land shark wtf? I bet most are pretty soppy sods and they look like fairly attractive dogs to me. 

But yes boo to them for making a large designer dog because they fancied it.


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## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

Mophie said:


> I think the fact they're doing it purely for cash is stupid especially planning ahead to make the money. But also there is point that the inbreeding isn't doing the pedirees any good at all.
> 
> Aside from that the idiots saying they'd made a land shark wtf? I bet most are pretty soppy sods and they look like fairly attractive dogs to me.
> 
> But yes boo to them for making a large designer dog because they fancied it.


Agreed


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

What a factually inaccurate, sensationalist, ignorant piece.

There is no defending irresponsible breeding, but the author of that article is a complete **** imo.

Dogs just don't stand a chance when utter garbage like that is printed.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

I cant bring myself to comment!!

:mad5::mad2::incazzato::incazzato:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Bell claimed that crossing rottweilers with presas produced dogs with better temperaments and removed genetic faults such as hip problems.

:mad5: :mad5: :mad5:

Absolute madness, completely incorrect and I wonder if they bothered to health test at all since all the genetic illnesses seem to disappear with cross breeds??


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## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

He doesnt want pure breeds... because they are closely related... so he has got the mother and her two offspring for "breeding" ... cant get much closer related than that !
If he found it hard to find a presa breeder to mate his first dog with... how much harder is it to be to find other dogs of different lines to be mated with his ? 

Talking of which, I wonder if he had both parents thoroughly tested for hip dipslaysia after making such a claim that his "superdog" would be less likely to suffer from the condition.
And I wonder if all pups will be tested to prove these claims before he continues with his breeding programme.

Also not sure what sort of breeder uses a 14 month old dog to mate with ...

List of comments is endless to be honest ...


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

What an utter bell end and thats for the breeders and the muppet writing the article. 

That is all I have to say.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

Do you know what, I couldn't be arsked to read the article. Anyone who knows the Rottweiler knows how gentle they really are.

The sooner all breeders are made responsible for their litters the better. I'd like to see a law to keep at least one of these puppies for their life so they can actually see with their own eyes what potential problems they are responsible for. Personally, I'd gladly shoot these type of breeders myself. 

:mad5::mad5::mad5:


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Hmmm now I'm pondering what my friends boy is as he looks the spitting image of that dog in the photo.. (bought 6 years ago for £50 - not BYB) we always thought he was BM x Rottie.. 

Does look like a lovely dog though, the "dangerous dog" comments are a bit far fetched but then it may put people off buying these crosses? and therefore stop them being crossed? then again that's wishful thinking on my part.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

I don't know who is the more stupid or infuriating - the BYBs producing these pups for money and spouting crap about them being healthier etc. or the people who wrote the article with their sh**e about "land sharks" etc.

I don't see the same uproar over all the other designer crosses (not in this sense anyway).

A load of bull by everyone concerned. I pity the human race.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

If I read it correctly the comment "To cross two dangerous breeds beggars belief. These men could have made a shark on land." was made by a mother who's daughter was killed by two Rottweilers. It's understandable she takes this position even if you don't agree with the statement.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Diefenbaker - I appreciate that - I can't imagine what its like to lose a child, especially like that, but then I also feel it was a deliberate and pathetic ploy on behalf of the writers to get a quote from someone so obviously biased.

I mean - I wonder if the parents whose kids were killed by daschunds / the pomeranion were ever asked their opiion on crossing those breeds?

I sympathise with the woman quoted, I really do, but that doesn't make the article anything less than sensationalist bull.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

I agree. It's probably nigh on impossible to get a balanced view on any subject from somebody that has lost a loved one. But for me this raises an interesting point. I have a 16 month GSDxMal and children aged 9 and 13. He could likely kill them and me if he wanted to but he's more inclined to roll on his back for a belly rub. What causes an otherwise good natured family dog to snap in this way ?


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

in the right hands would these dogs be a problem?....and are they really any different to my dogs being rottixGSD and rottixbull mastiff

as soon as the press get wind of something like this theres always going to be headlines,and lets face it,this probably isn't the first time this cross has been produced...and the dog pictured looks stunning


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

There's s much wrong with this that I don't know where to start - I agree with everything that's already been said.

The tone of the article itself is disturbing - ie labelling breeds as dangerous - but what is equally disturbing is the following quote from the breeders:

_People who breed pure-bred rottweilers and presas will probably frown on this because they want to keep everything pure.

But by keeping everything pure, they are breeding dogs that are too closely related and causing problems.

Bell claimed that crossing rottweilers with presas produced dogs with better temperaments and removed genetic faults such as hip problems._

All completely untrue, of course - but I wonder how eejits like this, who don't seem to have a brain cell between them, managed to come up with that excuse to justify their breeding? Who gave them the idea that pedigree breeders are inbreeding? Who gave them the idea that crossbreeding is better? Hmmmm.


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## Lulus mum (Feb 14, 2011)

Read this earlier on another Forum site and was just speechless

The members there agree with all members who have posted on here-the whole thing is just beyond belief

I agree Colette-I pity the human race

Maureen


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Bell claimed that crossing rottweilers with presas produced dogs with better temperaments and removed genetic faults such as hip problems.
> 
> :mad5: :mad5: :mad5:
> 
> Absolute madness, completely incorrect and I wonder if they bothered to health test at all since all the genetic illnesses seem to disappear with cross breeds??


Any large breed is prone to hip dysplasia, be it crossbreed, pedigree or pure bloody mongrel. This person shouldn't be within 100 yards of any dog.



skyblue said:


> in the right hands would these dogs be a problem?....and are they really any different to my dogs being rottixGSD and rottixbull mastiff
> 
> as soon as the press get wind of something like this theres always going to be headlines,and lets face it,this probably isn't the first time this cross has been produced...and the dog pictured looks stunning


But they will never get into the right hands, will they? Not when they are being touted as landsharks? You can only imagine the sort of person who would buy one.

Ok so you have two guarding breeds crossed - just like your rottie x GSD - so probably could be turned into a sweetheart as long as nobody breaks in. But it won't happen.

There should be a ban on this sort of crap.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Any large breed is prone to hip dysplasia, be it crossbreed, pedigree or pure bloody mongrel. This person shouldn't be within 100 yards of any dog.
> 
> But they will never get into the right hands, will they? Not when they are being touted as landsharks? You can only imagine the sort of person who would buy one.
> 
> ...


Lovely looking dog. I know of a rottie x ridgeback in my area and he is stunning!

Difficult to ban people breeding crosses. Bit like trying to stop people from havin sex...it just wont happen.


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## Dober (Jan 2, 2012)

Words fail me sometimes! 

If it were up to me, you would need a licence to breed dogs and there would be heavy penalties for un-planned, unlicensed litters. How do you get permission to breed a dog? Health tested, titled in conformation or sports, temperament tested, a structured breeding plan and dogs which meet the standard. Breeder must pass a written common sense test. 

But then a lot of things would be different if it were up to me, so maybe it&#8217;s a good thing I don&#8217;t have any real power?


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## Kc Mac (Jul 26, 2011)

Ok there is so much to say 

I am not a fan of cross breeding for the sake of it  but the pics look gorgeous and much more my type of cross breed than the poodle crosses Singing: (no offence meant to anyone!)

And a brilliant quotes:

Irresponsible people who experiment with crossing pure breeds should go to jail for it.

does that include the people who cross cute cuddly handbag sized pooches?! or just the big mean landshark type beasts?!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

5rivers79 said:


> Lovely looking dog. I know of a rottie x ridgeback in my area and he is stunning!
> 
> Difficult to ban people breeding crosses. Bit like trying to stop people from havin sex...it just wont happen.


I didn't mean ban them breeding crosses - I have nothing against crosses. I meant ban them from advertising them like this. No breed is dangerous in the right hands, as you yourself have proven since Akitas are beginning to carry a stigma, so to advertise them as such is just well, I don't know what


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## laineyvee13 (Dec 18, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I didn't mean ban them breeding crosses - I have nothing against crosses. I meant ban them from advertising them like this. No breed is dangerous in the right hands, as you yourself have proven since Akitas are beginning to carry a stigma, so to advertise them as such is just well, I don't know what


I found the article pretty hard to stomach tbh.

Having made friends with 4 staffies (oh devil dogs ) who would much rather chase a ball or check in just in case you have a treat, and a Great Dane x Mastiff (think Hound of the Baskevilles with attitude but more slobber ) over the last two weeks, it really comes down as you say to "in the right hands".

I just hope that we don't read another sad story in the press in a year or so's time ...


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## Mrs White (Jul 18, 2011)

Good, knowledgeable breeding is good, knowledgeable breeding; whether that be pure or cross-breeding

The folk in this article, however, just seem a shower of clueless tw*ts and shouldn't breed Pomeranians crossed with Cavs never mind mixing Presas with Rotts:mad5:

I know for a fact that this mix *can* produce very good dogs, but it can also produce rank-driven man-eating monsters, depending on lines and individuals used.


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## Labrador Laura (Sep 12, 2010)

I have to say what a beautiful looking dog, and yeah im sure in the right hands they can be wonderful pets but with over breeding and using them as guard dog and other things these 'chavs' have them for it just gives them a bad name like all the other powerful breeds.

I've only been attacked by one dog, and that was a RottiexAmerican bulldog but he looked very much like these presweilers. But he was a cruelty case and came from a bad home but thankfully he want on for further training and is now in a loving home. But why make a more powerful dog to only land it in trouble later on in the future! Its greed!!, these beautiful dogs shouldnt need to be part of our ways!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Just been looking out of interest on a Presa Canario Breeders website in the states and I must admit its impressive covers everything you need to know about the breed and very honest.

There are quite a few problems health wise in the breed and they say themselves only go to breeders who health screen.
Hip Dysplasia, Elbow Dysplasia, Oteochondritis Desecans, Panosteitis, Entropian, Auto Immune Thyroid, Epilepsy and Crytorchidism, and Anterior cruciate ligament problems have been reported in the breed. A few of which are Probably reported in the Rottweiller too, so how they can claim the cross hasnt got the health problems especially if not screened then I dont know.

This is the age old problem though that often happens when people decide to manufacture a breed the stock isnt often tested before they start, to make sure they have clear stock or as sure as they can be that the breeding foundation dogs are clear.

This breeder goes on to say they are not suitable for a first time dog owner and also people who have had "soft" breeds like labradors spaniels etc etc need not apply either. They are not an appropriate choice for an iexperienced dog owner presumeably unless they have has similar or large guarding breeds.
They go on to say they are large powerful and intelligent, active and headstrong. They must be trained with firmness and consistency without force or cruelty. Early frequent socialisation and training is essential and must start as soon as you get them. They advise to purchase ones reared in the home, and that the breeder has habituated and well socialised also prior to getting them. The Socialisation and training must be ongoing to for life .
They have a high prey drive and are territorial , they are first and foremost a guard who takes the responsibility seriously. Gentle affectionate and Nobel with their family. They are distrustful of strangers, protective of kids and their family, but interestingly the breeder says not reccomended for families with Babies. Tough and aggressive by nature they will confront an intruder.

So probably like many other breeds, Purchased from a responsible breeder who health tests and breeds for temprement, who knows the breed and is selective about who purchases them and the people are suitable.
Given the right training and habituation and kept up through the dogs life by the responsible new owner, they are probably fine.

Bred indescrimately with no thought they can be a worse nightmare.


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

I can understand that these dogs could have a potential "dangerous dog" status but it depends on the type owner. There is a huge difference between a responsible owner and someone just wanting a dog as a status symbol.
I don't agree with the mother saying she thinks ALL dogs should be muzzled! I totally understand where she is coming from, as she lost her daughter to a rottie. But there is no need to tab every dog with the same brush.

As for the person who wrote the article, where the hell did they get their info?
Yes rotties and presas can be aggressive in some situations and in the hands of people who can't control them or know nothing about them. But like most large breeds you must have knowledge and be prepared to work with them from day one!

As for the BYB I don't think they would have looked into lines or even health and temp tests, never mind the possible problems the pups produced from this could have. I can't disagree with them about some breeders breeding from closely related dogs, as I have found this happening right now! We have been looking at a certain large breed for some time since we met one and fell in love! So over the past year we visited as many breeders we could and met as many of the breed we were looking at as we could, but once we found, well who looked and sounded like one of the best breeders we had met, I uncovered a shocking fact that they were having a litter of pups which the parents were Brother and Sister!! Ok they were from different litters but the Dam and Sires parents were the same!! Oh and this particular breeder was charging £1300 per pup!!

But to judge a dog on what type of breed it has came from is wrong in my opinion.


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## presweiler (Jan 6, 2012)

Horse and Hound said:


> What an utter bell end and thats for the breeders and the muppet writing the article.
> 
> That is all I have to say.


cant believe all the rubbish people write on here and in news papers they took our story under false pretence asking to do a story on designer dogs but wrote a story of lies people need to realise this before shouting there mouths off. for a start i am not a breeder never have been and never had anything to do with the breeding of these dogs like the daily liar would suggest also to the people suggesting that if there were any further breedings the same bitch would be used against her pups this is rediculous if there were another breeding to take place mum and dad would obviously be two dogs nothing to do with the first litter also no further breeds have been planned this is another false claim from the daily liar again.i have owned large breed dogs all my life and have to say he is the best i have ever had in every way. they also neglected to mention that me and my dog were attaked by a staffie when my dog was only 6 months old and he didnt even try to fight back that is how dangerous my dog is he recieved 13 stitches costing me 180quid the staffie owner had already set it on another dog and his owner they were taken to court and they let him make a deal to plead guilty to one attack and let him off with attacking my pup leaving me with the vet bill also the staffie in question had previous as did the owner he still has his dog despite this and gets paid to keep it from the government because he is a drug addict . The daily record has alot to answer to destroying our dogs reputations and ours. now if there are any further breeding it will only attract the wrong type of people now thanks to the daily LIAR must have been a slow day for news as for hack reporter janice burns she didnt even have the decency to come visit our dogs before slandering them also why would they send there own photographers to take pictures of such a dangerous breed if that is the case surely the safety of there photographer would be the first thing on there mind scare mongery at its worst personaly i have been bitten by many dogs over my life including a westie and a spanial so called safe breeds which if people would care to check up on statistics of dog attacks would see that there is alot of these safe breeds higher up he list than rottweilers or presa canarios .Neiher me or mark have done anything wrong or broke the law same goes for the dogs there are people up and down the country doing the same thing cross breeding with much larger and dangerous dogs the presa is also he smallest of all mastif breeds so does that mean we should be fearing the much larger bullmastifs neos and cane corsos to name a few all much heaver and larger than a presa or rott??? this is all completely rediculous to say the least media scare mongery gone mad .


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## CockersIndie (Dec 14, 2011)

ugh i am FED up of people fear mongering of 'dangerous' dog breeds. we don't generalise personality traits across nationalities of people- why do it to dogs? it is the owner who can make or break a dog, much as it would be a family for a person. i wish people would stop ruining some dogs' reputations.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

But Veronica dismissed the law as useless. She said: We need preventative measures, like muzzling and compulsory leads when dogs are out in public

This bit annoyed me a lot 

The dogs look lovely, yes the breeders are idiots but they did say they warn potential owners about the size and risks of having these dogs...so they don't seem to be all about the money but I do think they should never have done it.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Can't speak for Presas, as I've never met one but I'm sure most of them are lovely dogs. Sad to see yet another article orchestrated to cause panic amongst the anti dog fraternity & attract exactly the wrong sort of people into wanting to own one of these breeds


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

A few minutes research on wiki and as far as I can see Rotties and Presas both originate as herding dogs. It said that the Presas are quite dominant but surely as with rotties they are big, muscular dogs that need good owners and good training.
An article on google mentioned 2 adults killed by a presa which they obtained from someone who had trained it as a fighting dog so they only had themselves to blame!

I'm no expert but it is easy to blame a death on a 'vicious breed' rather than on the rubbish owner!!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

delca1 said:


> A few minutes research on wiki and as far as I can see *Rotties and Presas both originate as herding dogs*. It said that the Presas are quite dominant but surely as with rotties they are big, muscular dogs that need good owners and good training.
> An article on google mentioned 2 adults killed by a presa which they obtained from someone who had trained it as a fighting dog so they only had themselves to blame!
> 
> I'm no expert but it is easy to blame a death on a 'vicious breed' rather than on the rubbish owner!!


Yep Rotties are originally cattle herders they're wonderful dogs


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Just a thought - if you worked out how many people were bitten by medium/small breed dogs and then think about the damage they do scaled up to the size of a large breed then I reckon the media would start shouting about them too!
Did that make sense??


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## presweiler2011 (Jan 7, 2012)

This is a post to set the record straight. I am Mark, breeder of a litter of Presweilers. I am sick to the back teeth of all the sh*t being said about me and the litter I bred. The daily record took a story and twisted it. Here are the facts. I am not a byb! It was not an experiment! I bred from a pedigree rottweiler who is fully vet checked and an excellent example of the breed. I crossed her with a pedigree Presa canario from exceptional blood lines and who is also an excellent example of the breed and fully vet checked. Both parents of the pups are of sound health and even temperament. I know 3 generations of my rottweiler and met 2 generations of the presa. I did not do this for money. All the pups were temperament tested and placed in suitable homes for there characters. DO NOT COMMENT OR JUDGE anything you know nothing about!! I will happily answer questions.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

presweiler2011 said:


> This is a post to set the record straight. I am Mark, breeder of a litter of Presweilers
> I am not a byb! It was not an experiment! I bred from a pedigree rottweiler who is fully vet checked and an excellent example of the breed. I crossed her with a pedigree Presa canario from exceptional blood lines and who is also an excellent example of the breed and fully vet checked. Both parents of the pups are of sound health and even temperament. I know 3 generations of my rottweiler and met 2 generations of the presa. I did not do this for money. All the pups were temperament tested and placed in suitable homes for there characters. DO NOT COMMENT OR JUDGE anything you know nothing about!! I will happily answer questions.


You say you are not a byb - does that mean you are a licenced breeder? Generally good breeders do not "experiment" - they breed with knowledge and have the experience to know what the likely results of certain matings will be.

When you say your sire and dam were vet checked, what does that mean? Generally a vet check means nothing with regard to beeding. For example, were the sire and dam hip and elbow scored? Hip and elbow dysplasia are ailments both breeds can suffer from. If so, what were the scores? What were the scores from the lines you bred from? Had the rottie been eye tested? (I don't know much about rotties but on the KC recommended health screening before breeding list it says eye tests - perhaps Ceearott or someone with more breed knowledge than I have will know what eye tests they mean)

When you say the rottie was an excellent example of the breed, how do you know? Has it been shown? Has it won awards? Is it a Champion?

Which temperament test did you do for the puppies?

If you had such really good examples of the breed for a sire and dam, why did you decide to "experiment" by crossbreeding rather than breed either rotties or presas?

Hope you don't mind the above questions - you did say you'd be happy to answer any questions


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

presweiler2011 said:


> This is a post to set the record straight. I am Mark, breeder of a litter of Presweilers. I am sick to the back teeth of all the sh*t being said about me and the litter I bred. The daily record took a story and twisted it. Here are the facts. I am not a byb! It was not an experiment! I bred from a pedigree rottweiler who is fully vet checked and an excellent example of the breed. I crossed her with a pedigree Presa canario from exceptional blood lines and who is also an excellent example of the breed and fully vet checked. Both parents of the pups are of sound health and even temperament. I know 3 generations of my rottweiler and met 2 generations of the presa. I did not do this for money. All the pups were temperament tested and placed in suitable homes for there characters. DO NOT COMMENT OR JUDGE anything you know nothing about!! I will happily answer questions.


I read the scottish newspaper article and quite frankly, it stinks!! So perhaps, to be fair, we could hear your side of the tale.

Did you comment that pedigree dogs are too closely inbred or not? If so, please elaborate on your opinion, I would like to know how you came to this conclusion and what your evidence is that they all have health problems. I take it you think Rotties are too closely inbred - again, I would ask how? What COI would you class as being too close and what rotties have you seen this close?

Any decent rottie breeder will hip score and many many more now elbow score too, and you can also have your rottie heart tested and eye tested - did you do any of these tests?

I have no idea, even after reading the paper, why you think such a cross-breed is a good idea - please would you explain why ? Are you going to follow a breeding program of this cross? How are you going to do it? Are you keeping written records, which includes info such as genetic traits and diseases and if any disease is diagnosed in your dogs, do you know enough about genetics as to act and change your breeding program accordingly? Not forgetting the chance of 'phenocopies' either - you need to know about all this - do you? What type of 'phenotype' are you breeding for?

And as already asked - how do you know your rottie is a good example of the breed, have you shown her, worked her, temperament tested her or something else?

I look forward to your replies


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## troublestrouble (Oct 19, 2011)

makes me mad that the idea of a breed, a whole breed, as being dangerous. yeah there have been some deaths by rotties but i can't begin to imagine that all rotties are child killers. some humans kill children but not all of us!

does make for a very handsome dog but i'm a bit dubious of the 'designer' cross trend, but isn't that how all the different breeds have come about?? i don't know.

certainly the journalist is an idiot!

does anyone have a presa? are they really demon dogs (all of them without exceptions that is of course cause they must all be exactly the same temperament)


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## troublestrouble (Oct 19, 2011)

delca1 said:


> Just a thought - if you worked out how many people were bitten by medium/small breed dogs and then think about the damage they do scaled up to the size of a large breed then I reckon the media would start shouting about them too!
> Did that make sense??


it made perfect sense to me and i am sure you are aware of all the many threads on here about small dogs getting away with murder while big dogs have to be perfect always.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

The people that demonise certain breeds are the people that a) have never owned the said breed, b) watch too many films and c) read tabloids.


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## presweiler2011 (Jan 7, 2012)

No I am not a licensed breeder, I have only bred 1 litter. As I have already said it was not an experiment. I owned a "presweiler a few years ago. I do have the knowledge to know what I was doing and what I wanted to gain. Although not an experienced breeder I am an experienced dog owner. Both the sire and dam of the pups were hip scored, dam is 2:2 and the sire is 1:3. Both elbow scores are 0:0. Although the dam was not eye tested she has no problems or any signs that she will have. Both sire and dam meet their breed descriptions and come from good blood lines. The sire is bred from an american import from a well know kennel who breed working and sporting presa canarios and the dam is bred from uk showing lines, she has also been assed by a schutzhund judge and trainer. The puppies were tested using the VOLHARD test. They were raised in my home and well socialised. I chose to cross the two breeds because I couldn't find a rottweiler stud that I was happy with. As I said before I owned a presweiler and she was an amazing dog. Breeding the way I have in my opinion is better than the people who breed pure breeds with no papers and no known breeding history and better than people using bad examples of breeds who have no health test


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

presweiler2011 said:


> This is a post to set the record straight. I am Mark, breeder of a litter of Presweilers. I am sick to the back teeth of all the sh*t being said about me and the litter I bred. The daily record took a story and twisted it. Here are the facts. I am not a byb! It was not an experiment! I bred from a pedigree rottweiler who is fully vet checked and an excellent example of the breed. I crossed her with a pedigree Presa canario from exceptional blood lines and who is also an excellent example of the breed and fully vet checked. Both parents of the pups are of sound health and even temperament. I know 3 generations of my rottweiler and met 2 generations of the presa. I did not do this for money. All the pups were temperament tested and placed in suitable homes for there characters. DO NOT COMMENT OR JUDGE anything you know nothing about!! I will happily answer questions.


Why did you take this litter then? You can't really know for certain what you're going to get, except for big dogs. I'd be interested to know if you did state that cross breeding means the pups will be free of genetic conditions, because this most certainly won't be the case, and if you've told puppy buyers this, then they could well sue you if any of the pups goes on to develop a genetic condition that could have been prevented.

The paper report said you had to search for a presa owner with a stud dog, as you were turned down by a few, surely this must have given you an indication that something wasn't quite right? That is, if that part is also true.

Whether or not you're sick of the stories floating around, you chose to take this litter, and you chose to have your story in the papers, unfortunately, that means that anyone and everyone will have their opinion. You may need to grow a thick skin.

And welcome to the forum btw.


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## presweiler2011 (Jan 7, 2012)

No I am not a licensed breeder, I have only bred 1 litter. As I have already said it was not an experiment. I owned a "presweiler a few years ago. I do have the knowledge to know what I was doing and what I wanted to gain. Although not an experienced breeder I am an experienced dog owner. Both the sire and dam of the pups were hip scored, dam is 2:2 and the sire is 1:3. Both elbow scores are 0:0. Although the dam was not eye tested she has no problems or any signs that she will have. Both sire and dam meet their breed descriptions and come from good blood lines. The sire is bred from an american import from a well know kennel who breed working and sporting presa canarios and the dam is bred from uk showing lines. The puppies were tested using the VOLHARD test. They were raised in my home and well socialised. I chose to cross the two breeds because I couldn't find a rottweiler stud that I was happy with. As I said before I owned a presweiler and she was an amazing dog. Breeding the way I have in my opinion is better than the people who breed pure breeds with no papers and no known breeding history and better than people using bad examples of breeds who have no health test


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## presweiler2011 (Jan 7, 2012)

No body knows for certain what they will get with breeding anything but by choosing carefully we can try to produce healthy, good natured dogs. I bred this litter to try and get big, healthy and active dogs suitable for sports, gaurding and family companions. I did not state that that cross breeding means the pups will be free of genetic conditions. I said there are to many people breeding from unpapered dogs who have no health checks done and this is a cause of may problems. Although I have cross bred I have bred from dogs who are well bred and who have been health checked so the pups are less likely to develop health issues. I am well aware that all large breeds can suffer from joint problems. Nothing I have said is breed specific. I didn't struggle to find a stud dog as such. I wanted a light fawn and struggled to find one within sensible traveling time. The owner did not want to be mentioned or have his dogs name used.


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## Hiafa123 (May 30, 2011)

Did you approach the newspaper with the story or did they approach you ?

Did you not ask for "proof prior to printing" ? this way you would have been able to correct the inaccuracies that were printed. Have you asked the newspaper for a retraction? Did you receive payment for the article ? all nationals pay really good money...believe me I know


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## presweiler2011 (Jan 7, 2012)

Hiafa123 said:


> Did you approach the newspaper with the story or did they approach you ?
> 
> Did you not ask for "proof prior to printing" ? this way you would have been able to correct the inaccuracies that were printed. Have you asked the newspaper for a retraction? Did you receive payment for the article ? all nationals pay really good money...believe me I know


The news paper approached me and I did ask to see the story before it was printed. I spoke to the deputy editor after it was printed because I was never told when it would be out, anyway he told me that I couldn't be given editorial rights because that's not how papers work. He then asked if I wanted to do an opinion piece but I wasn't willing to tell them anything else after the mess they made the first time. I never got any payment for it. I am seeking legal advice.


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## tugandbea (Jan 12, 2012)

I have dog from mark's litter called Tug. All i have to say is he is a fantastic, great natured dog and epitomises laid back! He has the softest temperament and is great with children and is loved by EVERYONE who has met him. 

I also have a 9month old presa bitch. Again she is a great dog and is what they say on the tin. She is a big sofie as well, will bark at strangers entering our home but with her tail wagging which seems to be the most dangerous part of her....it hurts!

Having owned these two dogs i recently got bitten by a very small jack russel.....my finger was open to the bone, my bone was broken and had a bit chipped off it.

At the end of the day dogs are animals...we can train them as best we can but unfortunately some animals are badly bred and badly or through lack of knowledge incorrectly treated and animals never forget a bad experience.

Veronica Lynch's daughter was killed by two rottweilers belonging to a friend who had let two small girls take them out by themselves......im not blaming her and not blaming the breed of dog...... i just think sometimes a little common sense wouldn't go amiss when dealing with animals especially when the dogs each would have weighed more than the two girls so how could they be expected to handle them?

Any sensible dog owner will do research in to what they are buying and how to best look after and deal with it. Every breed of dog has instinctive traits.

There are two sides to every story.

Staffies have been tarred with the same brush and if bred and treated correctly make fantastic family pets.

There are a lot of breeds that are far bigger and more powerful than rotties and presas so why pick on them?

Do you agree with a rottie x akita? or a rottie x bull mastiff? or a rottie x doge de bordeaux?or a great dane or a boxer or alsation or a staffie? 
All these crosses are for sale right now so whats the big deal with the presweiler? there are crosses there i definitely would not have.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

I dont agree with a rottie crossed with anything, just my personal opinion. If you'd bought a rottie bitch from me, she would have been endorsed and I wouldnt have lifted the endorsements for this mating, but then, that doesnt matter does it - coz they aint gonna be KC Reg anyway. 

Good on you for health testing, but I still cant agree with the mating.

They are plenty of breeds already out there that meet your criteria of 'healthy, big, active, guarding, sports and family dog', In fact, a rottie meets all of this on its own - so really cant understand why you wanna mix the two. 

And to say you couldnt find a rottie stud that you were happy with - I dont understand this either, there are many wonderful rottie males out there in the UK.


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## NateBarros (May 13, 2012)

A lot of people around the world love the Presweiler and totally agree with you. Don't listen to these wackos with their own malicious agenda. I lost a perfect Rottweiler at 4 years old to cancer and I could have bought 2 litters of Presweilers with the money I spent on him, before and after. These are before and after pictures. Be careful on these forums, there are a lot of trouble makers and most of them fakes. If you can get on Facebook join our American Bandog Breeders Group here https://www.facebook.com/groups/286455081383606/ You have to be logged into Facebook to see it so only real people that have a lot to offer and none of the breeders breed their dogs to a book to prance around a ring. We have Shutzhund 3 and French Ring 3 dogs, as well as dogs that can pull 200 times there body weight ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [161898] :: 'PR' RO-KI'S AL-A-KA-ZOOM OF MK
Hope to hear from you, because I may be importing some of your pups.


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## xbaileyboox (Apr 26, 2012)

and i reckon the only people going to buy this breed are chavs who want to look hard, so the dog gets into the wrong hands.


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## NateBarros (May 13, 2012)

xbaileyboox said:


> and i reckon the only people going to buy this breed are chavs who want to look hard, so the dog gets into the wrong hands.


I think sometimes a computer gets into the wrong hands of people who want to look hard belittling people, because they live in a culture of victims and have to run and hide because they can't own a gun.


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## xbaileyboox (Apr 26, 2012)

NateBarros said:


> I think sometimes a computer gets into the wrong hands of people who want to look hard belittling people, because they live in a culture of victims and have to run and hide because they can't own a gun.


i will happily say it to there face. most of yhe dog attacks that happeb are becausr the dog is in unsuitable hands that dont know how to train a dog or brought iyt up wrong.


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## NateBarros (May 13, 2012)

xbaileyboox said:


> i will happily say it to there face. most of yhe dog attacks that happeb are becausr the dog is in unsuitable hands that dont know how to train a dog or brought iyt up wrong.


....and whose fault is that, the dogs? How many people could handle a horse in public for that matter? A horse in the wrong hands is more likely to kill a person than a dog but do we blame the horse? These people that ban dog breeds are no different than Nazis who banned races. In Georgia, USA they are passing a law to hold the dog owner responsible for damages not the dog. There are 8 seasons of the The Dog Whisperer and a lot of celebrities that are against BSL.


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