# cesarean help please



## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

My maiden queen has just had a cesarean - one kitten. I have just got home she is still extremely woozy. Kitten is on a heat pad on sofa near her. Its my first cat cesarean, not sure whether to bottle feed the boy or wait until mum comes round a bit and see if she takes to him. Will she know its her kitten, I remember after my cesarean under general when they gave me my son I thought "why are they giving me that baby!"


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## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

If mum is still woozy will the drugs in mums system make the baby drowsy? If so I don't think thats the best idea but i'm not a breeder so I could be way off the mark


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

I think I have answered my own question, little man is trying to suck although mum is still completely out of it - I am going to sit up with them ovenight and see how it goes, I dont want to bottle feed unless I need to as I know sucking will help her milk come in.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Polski said:


> If mum is still woozy will the drugs in mums system make the baby drowsy? If so I don't think thats the best idea but i'm not a breeder so I could be way off the mark


thanks thats a good point - mums milk will take a while to come down so hopefully it should be fine


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Sorry I have no advise to offer but wanted to send you, mum and baby hugs.xxx


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> Sorry I have no advise to offer but wanted to send you, mum and baby hugs.xxx


Thanks CC , its horrible seeing my little girl so out of it - first cesarean for me, not nice, and its hard to know what to do for the best sometimes - hope your babies are doing ok x


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Mum looking bit brighter this morning and has accepted baby Ace - how long does mums milk normally take to come in after a caeserean?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Never had a c-section here, a friend had one last week with spay and needed a repeat surgery today, mum was put with the kittens right away after both surgeries.

The milk can take a bit longer to come in apparently and you may have issues with there being only one kitten.

Good to hear mum is happy with her bub now.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Glad mum is with baby now xx


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

My guys have had milk in after about 4-6 hours with a C section, but I've never had a litter smaller than 3 this way. Might be worth using Urtica to bring it in, or if you don't have any of that to hand, speak to the vet about Oxytosin. I'd expect her to have some by now but with only one sucking it might not be enough to stimulate her.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

carly87 said:


> My guys have had milk in after about 4-6 hours with a C section, but I've never had a litter smaller than 3 this way. Might be worth using Urtica to bring it in, or if you don't have any of that to hand, speak to the vet about Oxytosin. I'd expect her to have some by now but with only one sucking it might not be enough to stimulate her.


Thanks Carly - vet gave her oxytocin before she came home - I also have a litter of six born Sunday that mum is struggling with, my mentor suggested I maybe "steal" a couple for my c section mum when she is settled to distribute the load more evenly ?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'd do that sooner rather than later, but do keep an eye on the little C section baby and make sure it's getting its fill as they can often be slower to start.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

I had two c-sections last year and three just last week Each time the kittens have been put straight with mom and even though she has been a little 'out of it' things have worked well. Kittens have never been affected by the drugs used on mom as far as i'm aware. Hope they are all well today for you


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

cats galore said:


> I had two c-sections last year and three just last week Each time the kittens have been put straight with mom and even though she has been a little 'out of it' things have worked well. Kittens have never been affected by the drugs used on mom as far as i'm aware. Hope they are all well today for you


Yikes cats galore, three in the last week! I hope everything is going ok for you. I did put baby with mum straight away and then sat with them both overnight as mum was really out of it and I was frightened she was going to squash him. Thankfully when she came round this morning she was happy to have her baby and things seem to be going ok today


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

wicket said:


> Yikes cats galore, three in the last week! I hope everything is going ok for you. I did put baby with mum straight away and then sat with them both overnight as mum was really out of it and I was frightened she was going to squash him. Thankfully when she came round this morning she was happy to have her baby and things seem to be going ok today


That's what I tend to do too. I worry too much about them so watch over them all night. It's been a nightmare here tbh. The first girl to have her c-section has been very ill in the vets for over a week which meant it looked like I was going to be hand rearing her 4 kittens. The second girl to have a c-section lost one kitten within hours and another had to be pts at just two days old  but she took the other kittens on so that was a help. The third girl is a feral and I can't get anywhere near here. Thankfully she was here though or she would have died on the streets - same as the second girl who had been thrown from a car at 7 weeks pregnant


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If you don't have a set of digital kitchen scales that weigh to 1g, now is the time to lash out £10 and get a set - you can do this at Argos. Weigh the kitten at about the same time each day, and keep a record. He or she should put on about 10g each day if all is well, and I very much hope it is.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> If you don't have a set of digital kitchen scales that weigh to 1g, now is the time to lash out £10 and get a set - you can do this at Argos. Weigh the kitten at about the same time each day, and keep a record. He or she should put on about 10g each day if all is well, and I very much hope it is.


Yep thanks have scales already - not my first litter by a long way but my first c section. And the first time I have had two girls deliver within a day with such a huge disparity in numbers delivered by each x


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## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

Sorry to hear you had to have a c-section. How is Mum and baby doing now? And your other Mum and babies? Looking forward to pics when they're bigger  xxx


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Good luck with your little one Wicket - I've had the experience of two Cesareans with my girls and it is very worrying to start with.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Susan M said:


> Sorry to hear you had to have a c-section. How is Mum and baby doing now? And your other Mum and babies? Looking forward to pics when they're bigger  xxx


Hi Susan things are looking.ok at the moment - I took Carlys advice and "stole" two kittens from the mum with 6 and gave them to c section mum - both mums now seem to be coping well with their respective 4 and 3 and the three kittens seem to be bringing the c sections mums milk in as they have all gained weight.


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## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

Brilliant, so pleased all is going well  Hope they continue to thrive!


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

Out of curiosity - if a cat has a csection for a litter, are there risks for her labouring the next time / is it even possible she can birth normally or would she always need a Csection? If so, how many csection ss are considered 'safe' for a cat to have?

If you're a breeder and a cat has a csection, do you Spey her (at the same time?) or is it the norm to breed from her again? (I suppose the answers to the above questions factor into that)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Cats can give birth naturally after a c-section, though if they need it because they are abnormally narrow in the pelvis it's best to spay them. Where I've seen it discussed people would spay if the same cat needed a second section.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

There are many reasons why a girl has a caesarean. Sometimes the hormones don't start labour, sometimes with a large litter there can be a 'traffic jam,' sometimes a kitten can present in the wrong position. A queen cannot deliver a kitten unless the head engages in the cervix. I only ever had two caesareans in 20 years and they were both because the last kitten presented with its body across the cervix. Some vets will try to manipulate the kitten in this circumstance but some say it causes the girl suffering. 

Both my girls went on to have normal pregnancies subsequently so it always worth trying again unless there is a specific physical reason why the girl is not fit for breeding. 

Some breeders say you never have the same number of kittens after a caesarean because one of the horns will not function but I know from experience that is just an old wives' tale. My girl who had the op to remove the 6th kitten in her first litter went on to have 7 in her next and the other also had more kittens in her later litters.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

sadly my girl that had two c. sections would never have delivered normally due to internal scarring after the first one  I wish I could have known - I would never have put her through a second pregnancy  She was spayed during the 2nd cesarean which I had asked for before I knew about her problems


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

lymorelynn said:


> sadly my girl that had two c. sections would never have delivered normally due to internal scarring after the first one  I wish I could have known - I would never have put her through a second pregnancy  She was spayed during the 2nd cesarean which I had asked for before I knew about her problems


Is internal scarring common with a caesarean? How could you have known without trying again?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't think it is common. After the first my vet was quite happy that we should try again - sadly it wasn't to be. I know there was no way of telling beforehand but I can still wish that it could have been avoided.


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Cats can give birth naturally after a c-section, though if they need it because they are abnormally narrow in the pelvis it's best to spay them. Where I've seen it discussed people would spay if the same cat needed a second section.


Is there a risk with the scar separating in labour like there is with women? Or a higher risk of complications the next time?

I have seen c sections in both human and animals - the cat and dog ones I've seen are pretty cool in that with people, the shape of the uterus means one cut is made along the near bottom of the uterus ... But due to the 'U' shape in cats / dogs (multi litter animals), it was really cool to see how the vet does a much smaller cut ACROSS the tube, and then the vet squeeze the kittens / puppies out through the gap kinda like toothpaste out of a tube 

(Not cool a csection is needed of course - but interesting surgery to watch!!!)

Had to help the (fur) babies breathe at birth too, cos the drugs given to knock the mum out go through to babies - then out then in a warmed cot with free flow oxygen - warmed the oxygen tube too with heat packs so it was warm air.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

my girl needed a section because her one kitten was across the cervix - I trust my vet and agreed to spay at the same time if any physical abnormality was found - my vet was happy s my girl was just unlucky and is happy for me to breed from her in the future. Also I was really surprised at how small and neat the scar was - I'm lucky surgery particularly orthopaedic is my vets speciality so for c sections she gives out her mobile number and does her own on call. Tiny scar and no external stitches and mum is doing very well.


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

Glad she is recovering well wicket


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

We had a C section on Xmas day due to her giving birth 2 weeks early .. After the ultrasound and finding dead kittens it was decided to section and spay at the same time ... She might have gone on to have a normal full term litter next time but I didn't want to take the risk and put her though that all again


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