# Swim bladder disease



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm fairly sure the smaller of my two goldfish has swim bladder disease.

I first noticed yesterday evening - he is bobbing around on his side/back and when he tries to swim, he floats up to the top of the tank.

I've tested the water condition and that's absolutely fine. Neither have been fed since the evening before last (it was when I went to feed them yesterday that I noticed the problem).

Today I tried the affected fish with a half a cooked de-shelled pea but he wasn't interested.

Anything else I can do?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

As soon as you are able, pop to your local pharmacy and ask for some Epsom salts. Then give him an Epsom salt dip. This worked for my American flagfish when he was having swim bladder issues.

Here's the webpage with the instructions I followed: Salt Baths - Betta Splendid (It mentions bettas, but the method described seemed to work fine for my fish.)

Good luck!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Thank you, I'll get some first thing in the morning.


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## whalethechu (Feb 23, 2015)

I would fast them for a day or two. Epsom salt can be added to the tank at 1/4tsp per 10 gallons and continue it for a few days. This is usually enough for mild problems like constipation. Is his appetite the same as it was before this started?
If this fails, the fish could have a bacterial problem that can be solved with metronidazole and erythromycin, kanamycin or triple sulfa.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I've had the fish in an epsom bath today for 15 minutes. Fish doesn't look any different at all. Wondering if he is too far gone?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

It doesn't always work straight away. The advice I was given was to repeat the baths daily for at least three days, or until the fish no longer appears swollen in shape. No food for a couple of days, then try the pea again. Crushing the pea with a bit of garlic can sometimes help.

I don't have any experience with the bacterial problems that whalethechu mentioned, but I'd have thought a dose of melafix can't hurt if there's a chance it could be a bacterial issue? It's a general standby med that can help with bacterial and fungal issues, and won't affect the filter bacteria, so no harm done even if that's not the problem. Maybe whalethechu or someone else with more experience can advise on that, though.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

If it is swim bladder disease, would the fish just be floating motionless at the top, only attempting to swim every so often? I have to watch for a few moments sometimes to see whether he is alive or not! Worried it's not that but not really sure what to do. Can/would a vet even be able to suggest anything? 

Fed the healthy fish whilst the poorly one was in the epsom bath, poorly fish hasn't eaten in three days now (did try with a pea but not interested).

Will try the epsom again tomorrow.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

That's exactly what my flagfish was doing - floating on his side on the top most of the time, appearing dead, but every now and then trying to swim downwards, but he kept drifting back up again. I really thought he was dying, but a couple of days with the epsom salts had him back to normal 

The problem in my case was that the daft little so-and-so went and gorged himself on the floating plants again as soon as he was feeling better, and a few days later had the same problems! My two female flagfish had no such issues, it was only the male who had no sense whatsoever! After the second round of illness and epsom salt treatment, he seems to have learned his lesson - hopefully anyway!

Unless you have a vet who specialises in fish (which are pretty rare), I shouldn't think they'll be able to help unfortunately.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I really was thinking he was past the point of no return, but it's reassuring to know that yours was exactly the same and turned out ok! I'll try the epsom bath again tomorrow then.

I followed the link you suggested but did not have a gallon container, so scaled the dosage down to just under one teaspoon in 1.5 litres of water (from the tank) and left fish for 15 minutes. However I have since seen a suggestion of 70g (14 teaspoons?!?!) in 1 litre for 5 minutes. Such huge variations. What kind of dosage/time did you do?

I have no real plants so hopefully if he does get through this, I'll just be able to reintroduce small amounts of food gradually. What kind of time frame can they go without food? Like I say, poorly fish already hasn't eaten for three days.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

I used a 2L jug and one-and-a-half teaspoons of epsom salt, so approximately the same concentration as you. I also used a smaller container with a much weaker concentration to re-acclimatise him for 5 mins before putting him back in the tank.

Most fish can quite happily go for up to 2 weeks without food. I never feed mine when I'm on holiday, as the holiday food blocks you can buy pollute the water. (I have neighbours who come in to feed the cat, but I tell them not to do anything with the fish tanks as I worry they may inadvertently overfeed!)


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

NaomiM said:


> I used a 2L jug and one-and-a-half teaspoons of epsom salt, so approximately the same concentration as you. I also used a smaller container with a much weaker concentration to re-acclimatise him for 5 mins before putting him back in the tank.
> 
> Most fish can quite happily go for up to 2 weeks without food. I never feed mine when I'm on holiday, as the holiday food blocks you can buy pollute the water. (I have neighbours who come in to feed the cat, but I tell them not to do anything with the fish tanks as I worry they may inadvertently overfeed!)


Yes, I done the re-acclimatising too. Hopefully another couple of baths will see him right! Fingers crossed he's ok before the weekend - we're away and our son is coming to mind the two dogs that aren't going into kennels, and I can just imagine his face if I leave instructions for bathing the goldfish  

That's good to know about food. I'll continue to feed the healthy one when the affected fish is in the bath solution.

I've read that SBD can be caused by diet. They have a mixture of flakes and goldfish granules fed in rotation, with bloodworms once a week. I always take care not to overfeed them, but is there anything I can do to improve their diet and reduce the risk of this happening again?

Thanks for all your help - much appreciated, as it was when you gave me all that help a while back getting these fishies into a suitable sized tank.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Fingers crossed for him 

When you give flakes, hold them under the water rather than sprinkling them on the surface, to prevent the fish taking in too much air when they eat it. And try replacing the normal food with a crushed pea once a week - the day after the bloodworm would be ideal, as it can help them digest it. These are general suggestions as I don't have goldfish myself, so maybe one of the other goldfish keepers on here will be able to give you some more goldfish-specific advice


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Three more epsom baths and absolutely no improvement. Any next step, or...?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry to hear that :-/ The only thing I can suggest is to keep going with the baths and maybe try some Melafix. Unless anyone else has any suggestions? Whalethechu, do you have any more info on the possible bacterial infection/meds you mentioned?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Another bath today but still no improvement. Really feel like he is suffering now. Will a vet put a fish to sleep?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry it doesn't seem to be working  If you do decide that's the kindest route to take, look up using clove oil for euthenasia. I've never done it myself, but most fish experts agree it's the most humane way to put a fish to sleep.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I think it is  It's been nearly a week, 2-3 epsom baths daily and absolutely no improvement. He's just floating around at the top of the tank, it's no quality of life for him. Poor little guy. I have seen clove oil suggested so think I should get some tomorrow.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

The fish was put to sleep as he was showing no signs of improvement at all. 

This leaves me with one remaining 2'' fancy goldfish - are they a ''social'' fish? - should I get another?

The tank is 250L.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Gutted, so sorry he didn't make it  RIP little fishy.

From what I understand, they do prefer company where possible and your tank should be large enough for another (assuming it's well filtered, which I believe yours is from what I recall??) and assuming all water tests are still reading fine.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Yes, you very kindly helped me out with getting a suitable filter when I brought the larger tank. Water readings are fine.

Will get him a buddy soon then


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Stupid question alert...

Can a shubunkin goldfish live quite happily with a double-tailed fancy goldfish?

My husband, trying to save me a job, called into the aquatic shop whilst he was at the garden centre next door earlier, and brought one of the above to go with our existing fish.

They're both approximately the same size in length, but just look so different, hard to believe they could live together


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

They should be fine together 

We need photos!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I told you it was a daft question Singing:

Pictures aren't great, but here you go. New fishy looks tiny but there really isn't much of a size difference at all. I did say to my husband couldn't you have chosen something that matched a bit better! :lol:


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## whalethechu (Feb 23, 2015)

Oh my, I'm so sorry I was away from this thread! I'm sorry you had to euthanise him. 

Your fish are very pretty! If you need any help with meds in future I will try my best


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

whalethechu said:


> Oh my, I'm so sorry I was away from this thread! I'm sorry you had to euthanise him.
> 
> Your fish are very pretty! If you need any help with meds in future I will try my best


Thank you


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