# Help with a cat that has started biting me!



## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi all! I adopted an abandoned cat at around 11 months old (Now about 14 months old) she bit me today out of the blue quite hard! if I hadn't have been wearing a fleece she would have punctured the skin! there is a dark red mark on my arm so she really did mean it! I was making the bed and she jumped up to investigate was fine one minute then all of a sudden aggressively launched her self at me! she has gone to bite once before but not aggressively! I love her and only ever show her kindness in fact it might be that she is spoilt! She is 99% of the time a lovely girl and follows me everywhere so why this attitude? We were not sure if she was neutered when we got her so had an ultra sound scan done which resulted in the vet being 85% sure she had been neutered so I don't think it's that! Is she trying to be top cat? I have looked on the internet but haven't found any information that really helps me to stop this behaviour in the bud! Please help if you can! She is not a timid or shy cat and can get over excited at times! Thanks! Worried!:frown2:


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I might be way off track but it may have been something to do with what you were doing at the time. I have to be cautious when I'm bed making (I'm sure it's the action of moving your hands around quickly) and particularly moving my hands under a throw that I sometimes have on my lap on cold evenings... both activities will trigger two of my cats into "kill it" mode and I've had a couple of painful incidents with teeth and claws!


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Cats don't try to dominate us in the way some say dogs do (I've no idea if it's true of dogs or not, I'm not a dog person) so I would eliminate that idea. 

My bet would be that something about you making the bed triggered a bad memory in her mind, as you don't know her history anything could have happened to her. 

How did she act immediately after the bite? Did she run off and hide? Stay and give you aggressive language? Or did she flick her tail at you then leave and sit a little way off licking herself? Those are all clues as to what this was about. 

How did you respond to the bite? Did you shout out, either at her or just yell with surprise? Did you tell her off? How you handle a situation where a cat has lashed out at you will be crucial in whether this becomes habit and escalates, or how you work with her to resolve it.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> I might be way off track but it may have been something to do with what you were doing at the time. I have to be cautious when I'm bed making (I'm sure it's the action of moving your hands around quickly) and particularly moving my hands under a throw that I sometimes have on my lap on cold evenings... both activities will trigger two of my cats into "kill it" mode and I've had a couple of painful incidents with teeth and claws!


I did think this! I was just moving a blanket that was already folded my hands were not hidden and my movements not fast, she knew it was not a catch and kill game! well the look she gave me was really quite scary! I lost my last lovely girl to Lymphoma and took this little one as she had been abandoned in a shopping trolley outside Lidl she was not chipped and a friend of mine here in Tenerife runs a small boarding cattery and takes in the odd stray or abandoned cats so we don't know much about her young life! I don't want to feel wary around her and can't believe she meant to harm me! The incident has really upset me!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> Cats don't try to dominate us in the way some say dogs do (I've no idea if it's true of dogs or not, I'm not a dog person) so I would eliminate that idea.
> 
> My bet would be that something about you making the bed triggered a bad memory in her mind, as you don't know her history anything could have happened to her.
> 
> ...


I obviously shrieked with surprise and thought the teeth had penetrated my skin she bit fast and jumped back a foot or so and crouched but looked like she was ready to pounce again! I honestly felt she wanted a full blown fight! I said in a firm voice "NO!" and stared (Glared) back at her I then took a step back and pointing my finger at her said "No" again she then jumped off the bed and ran underneath it! I left the room and ignored her! a few minutes later she followed me downstairs as though everything was fine! I would never ever even tap a cat as I know this just promotes further aggression. I don't want this sort of behavior to continue and want to take the correct steps to try and prevent this becoming a habit.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Soozi said:


> I did think this! I was just moving a blanket that was already folded my hands were not hidden and my movements not fast, she knew it was not a catch and kill game!


You don't know what might have happened to her ... my Molly is scared of trainers, plastic bags, anything carried especially the washing, poppers (as in to do up a duvet cover) and bubbles (yes blowing bubbles). Henry is terrified of the bin lorry. These are associations from their past.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> You don't know what might have happened to her ... my Molly is scared of trainers, plastic bags, anything carried especially the washing, poppers (as in to do up a duvet cover) and bubbles (yes blowing bubbles). Henry is terrified of the bin lorry. These are associations from their past.


Thank you ForeverHome! but the rare times she has been slightly aggressive have no connection with each other it's me she is going for! I would like to know how other cat owners deal with this and and what methods they find successful in letting the cat know that her behaviour is not acceptable and not necessary! I don't know what's in her little head!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

She hasn't been with you for very long, considering it would have taken a while for her to 'find her feet' so to speak.. it's just a matter of weeks. 

Behavior that is "not acceptable and not necessary" is a difficult concept for cats to grasp. As has been pointed out, you don't know her history and really the last thing you want to be trying at the moment (or ever, really) is anything confrontational with her. It would be much better for both of you if you can try and concentrate on recognising what triggers these behaviors and simply avoiding them in the future... i.e. you could start with shutting her out of the bedroom when you're making the bed.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Meeko my Raggie had serious aggression problems as a kitten and it took months of careful handling and the input of a behaviourist to sort his head out.
I'm not saying your cat has problems like this but just pointing out that if she did have "issues" as a kitten and these were not handled correctly this could be where her occasional lapses are coming from.
As gskinner has said look for the triggers and avoid them,if she does bite or look like biting try not to react,as any response from you either movement or sound will seem like you are "taking part" in what ever it is she thinks is doing.
Distraction is the best way to stop her,throw a toy for her to chase anything to break her train of thought.She has only been with you for a matter 2/3 months so if there is any "history" with her it will take a while for her to realise she is safe.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> She hasn't been with you for very long, considering it would have taken a while for her to 'find her feet' so to speak.. it's just a matter of weeks.
> 
> Behavior that is "not acceptable and not necessary" is a difficult concept for cats to grasp. As has been pointed out, you don't know her history and really the last thing you want to be trying at the moment (or ever, really) is anything confrontational with her. It would be much better for both of you if you can try and concentrate on recognising what triggers these behaviors and simply avoiding them in the future... i.e. *you could start with shutting her out of the bedroom when you're making the bed.*


Yes I did that once or twice! on the other few occasions she has gone for me (not as aggressively as today) have not been associated with bed making! There doesn't appear to be any reason why she does it! I can only think that she was may have been mistreated by a child or her previous owners! If she does it again I don't know the best way to react that might show her (in time) that I am not the enemy! so what would you suggest? I'm looking at the deep bruise marks on my arm and hate to think what sort of injury she might have inflicted if I didn't have a long sleeved TShirt under my fleece! She has been with us for 4 months and this behaviour is only recent. I have been using a feliway diffuser since we got her to help her settle in but that's obviously not working!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

buffie said:


> Meeko my Raggie had serious aggression problems as a kitten and it took months of careful handling and the input of a behaviourist to sort his head out.
> I'm not saying your cat has problems like this but just pointing out that if she did have "issues" as a kitten and these were not handled correctly this could be where her occasional lapses are coming from.
> As gskinner has said look for the triggers and avoid them,if she does bite or look like biting try not to react,as any response from you either movement or sound will seem like you are "taking part" in what ever it is she thinks is doing.
> Distraction is the best way to stop her,throw a toy for her to chase anything to break her train of thought.She has only been with you for a matter 2/3 months so if there is any "history" with her it will take a while for her to realise she is safe.


She settled in so well to begin with! from day one she has always slept with me on the bed! and follows me around all the time! not just when she's hungry! so you can imagine I was so upset when she attacked me! I wanted to cry!:001_unsure:


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Soozi said:


> She settled in so well to begin with! from day one she has always slept with me on the bed! and follows me around all the time! not just when she's hungry! so you can imagine I was so upset when she attacked me! I wanted to cry!:001_unsure:


I can fully appreciate just how you are feeling,I spent many months in tears wondering why my gorgeous kitten was so troubled.He would stalk me from room to room and launch himself at me for no apparent reason ,there were times when I looked like I had been through a shredder.
The fact that you say she isn't timid and can get over excited just might be connected.
What food do you feed her on,is it wet/dry/combination ? and also is it grain free.Sometimes cats can become "high" on foods with a high sugar/grain content.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

buffie said:


> I can fully appreciate just how you are feeling,I spent many months in tears wondering why my gorgeous kitten was so troubled.He would stalk me from room to room and launch himself at me for no apparent reason ,there were times when I looked like I had been through a shredder.
> The fact that you say she isn't timid and can get over excited just might be connected.
> What food do you feed her on,is it wet/dry/combination ? and also is it grain free.Sometimes cats can become "high" on foods with a high sugar/grain content.


I am feeding her on a grain free dry and also and 1 tin of Gourmet gold per day! that's the only wet food she will eat! I even tried raw for a couple of weeks but the ants ate more than she did! the warmer climate here in Tenerife makes the ant problem worse when there is any wet food about! I have to feed her little and often so she doesn't leave any food in the bowl. She does have her hyper moments during the day and just before bed but we always play with her! a mouse with feathers on on a long elastic attached to a stick is her favourite!


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Soozi said:


> There doesn't appear to be any reason why she does it!


What I was trying to say is that in the cat's mind there is ALWAYS a reason and if you want to help her properly you won't do it by stopping her displaying one problem behaviour, you will just change that problem for another one while the real problem gets worse.

Shrieking and intimidating her are not going to help. To be totally honest I think this (ok you were taken by surprise) is a sure fire way to escalate this into something serious. Of course it's scary to have a cat attack you, but she didn't do it because she's nasty or spiteful, she did it because she was scared. I think it might help you to calm down and try and find a little empathy with her. She needs you to work with her to overcome this. She needs your patience and understanding, not to be glared at and have a finger wagged at her for responding to a very real emotion.

I'm out of here, anyway.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

At a very similar age to your cat, Dexter went through a brief 'yobbish' stage where he acted like a teenage thug :lol: He didn't bite, but used to stare at my eyes until his pupils dilated then he would leap at my face! This was a shock and the first time I yelled out! I learned to turn my face away from him when it looked like he was 'getting in the zone'. I would walk away and if he followed me I'd grab the nearest toy and chuck it away from me.
It lasted a few weeks and I believe he grew out of it. I'm not sure what caused this behaviour but it certainly wasn't fright, he too is a confident cat.
My advice would be to learn the signs, ignore and/or distract. Walk away with no reaction.
In my experience this worked - worth a try


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

i do believe cats can be territorial as well maybeshe has gotten to seeing the bed as her safe zone if you recently moved? they can be dangerous when in that strange zone -learn to recognise and distract as moggie 14 says


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> At a very similar age to your cat, Dexter went through a brief 'yobbish' stage where he acted like a teenage thug :lol: He didn't bite, but used to stare at my eyes until his pupils dilated then he would leap at my face! This was a shock and the first time I yelled out! I learned to turn my face away from him when it looked like he was 'getting in the zone'. I would walk away and if he followed me I'd grab the nearest toy and chuck it away from me.
> It lasted a few weeks and I believe he grew out of it. I'm not sure what caused this behaviour but it certainly wasn't fright, he too is a confident cat.
> My advice would be to learn the signs, ignore and/or distract. Walk away with no reaction.
> In my experience this worked - worth a try


Thanks moggie! I will not react in future and just walk away! I do hope she grows out of it as I feel uncomfortable with her at the moment! She can probably sense this too! I can't do right for wrong it seems!:sad:


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> What I was trying to say is that in the cat's mind there is ALWAYS a reason and if you want to help her properly you won't do it by stopping her displaying one problem behaviour, you will just change that problem for another one while the real problem gets worse.
> 
> Shrieking and intimidating her are not going to help. To be totally honest I think this (ok you were taken by surprise) is a sure fire way to escalate this into something serious. Of course it's scary to have a cat attack you, but she didn't do it because she's nasty or spiteful, she did it because she was scared. I think it might help you to calm down and try and find a little empathy with her. She needs you to work with her to overcome this. She needs your patience and understanding, not to be glared at and have a finger wagged at her for responding to a very real emotion.
> 
> *I'm out of here, anyway.*


Not sure what you mean by this comment! I have no wish to upset anyone here and just wanted advice! I adore my cat and Yes I did shriek as I was taken by surprise! plus it bloody hurt!


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## LeaderOfThePack (Nov 11, 2013)

Soozi said:


> I obviously shrieked with surprise and thought the teeth had penetrated my skin she bit fast and jumped back a foot or so and crouched but looked like she was ready to pounce again! I honestly felt she wanted a full blown fight! I said in a firm voice "NO!" and stared (Glared) back at her I then took a step back and pointing my finger at her said "No" again she then jumped off the bed and ran underneath it! I left the room and ignored her! a few minutes later she followed me downstairs as though everything was fine! I would never ever even tap a cat as I know this just promotes further aggression. I don't want this sort of behavior to continue and want to take the correct steps to try and prevent this becoming a habit.


If my cat did that, my reaction would ensure that he never did it again.
You see, despite what people think, that cats run the house and the humans and blah blah blah, you don't have to put up with that behavior and still must show a cat who is boss.
My cat has never bitten or scratched me but he has done to my mum, who is kinder to him.
He knows he cannot mess with me.
I don't hurt him or nothing but I certainly don't take any crap


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

LeaderOfThePack said:


> If my cat did that, my reaction would ensure that he never did it again.
> You see, despite what people think, that cats run the house and the humans and blah blah blah, you don't have to put up with that behavior and still must show a cat who is boss.
> My cat has never bitten or scratched me but he has done to my mum, who is kinder to him.
> He knows he cannot mess with me.
> I don't hurt him or nothing but I certainly don't take any crap


Crikey, I can well imagine your cat(s) wouldn't dare put a whisker out of place in your presence. 

Seriously though, is this a wind-up


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

chillminx said:


> Crikey, I can well imagine your cat(s) wouldn't dare put a whisker out of place in your presence.
> 
> *Seriously though, is this a wind-up*


The red decorations might give us a clue


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

To Soozi - 

I was going to message you this morning to say I'm sorry for losing patience and to explain why I opted not to make any further comment on this thread, but I see I can't message you so here goes. I have calmed down and I hope you have too.

I can understand your crying out with pain and shock at what happened. I can also understand you would have been still a bit in shock when you started this thread. And of course you want to make sure this doesn't happen again. I do believe you need to get to the bottom of this behaviour which from what you describe is an escalation of her previously showing aggression towards you, though this is the first time she has properly attacked you. 

But - the way you talk about it, and the fact that you told her off the way you did, suggests that you feel she did something BAD that she must not do. Unfortunately, cat psychology is not wired to think that way. They do not recognise us as a master. They are not pack animals, they have far more complex social systems and interactions. With a dog, there is (arguably) a leader. With several cats living together, there are many roles, and different cats may be 'top cat' in different situations. The most effective way to resolve any animal problem behaviour begins with understanding why they do it. With a cat, there is no other way. 

Telling a cat off has very little impact on the behaviour you are trying to stop, but it has a huge and completely negative impact on your relationship with the cat. It destroys trust, makes the cat stressed and wary of you, and you will not get any cooperation from them. Shutting a cat out of the room while you do something the cat has a problem with will not resolve the cat's problem. The cat may then find another outlet for that frustration, which could be a much worse behaviour. 

I didn't read anything in your posts yesterday that suggested you wanted to resolve the problem. Attacking you is only a symptom, a manifestation of what's going on inside that cat's head. You can find her triggers and avoid them all, you will still have a deeply troubled cat. Sometimes there is no other way, but there should still be a lot you can try, if you are willing to help the cat and not just protect yourself from the cat. 

The IS a reason why she is like this, and if you want to find it there are dozens of people here only too willing to help you do that. But we can't help, and please forgive me for saying this but it's what I personally felt reading your posts, if all we get from you is a near-hysterical negativity. I didn't want to say any of this in public but it's either public or nothing, so here it is. Red rep me if you're not happy with what I've said. 

Buffie: I think LOTP is an avid supporter of Cesar Milan and I think that's how all those red medals were earned


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

ForeverHome said:


> To Soozi -
> 
> Buffie: I think LOTP is an avid supporter of Cesar Milan and I think that's how all those red medals were earned


I did have a quick "history check" and I'm not surprised he has such a lovely collection of red medals, he deserves them


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

To be honest I didn't see any problem between you guys :001_huh:
I put in my two pennies worth as I thought my experience may help. Always worth looking at different angles.
I think FH may be very helpful to Soozi so please don't stop discussing on here


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> To Soozi -
> 
> I was going to message you this morning to say I'm sorry for losing patience and to explain why I opted not to make any further comment on this thread, but I see I can't message you so here goes. I have calmed down and I hope you have too.
> 
> ...


Hi there! Yes I have calmed down! I do recognise most of what triggers off her defensiveness and I do feel that she wants to trust me! She follows me everywhere and never slopes off to be on her own! My husband keeps saying that we should have called her Shadow! I do feel she might be a bit highly strung and excitable but that is the way she is, she is still young and could possibly calm down as she gets older! Even when she visits her litter tray there is always a crazy manic dash around the house afterwards! LOL! She also seems to get quite anxious at times if I leave the room where she is to go upstairs to use my computer she makes little pitying calls and runs up to find me! I will eventually get to know more about her little ways and hopefully she will learn to trust me! I was absolutely gobsmacked yesterday by her aggressive bite I suppose it just took me aback! I have nearly always had a cat and can't ever remember being bitten like that! I know now not to raise my voice, shriek or make any hand gestures that she will perceive as aggression! I am fully prepared and will watch out for any warning signs! :thumbup1:


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

moggie14 said:


> To be honest I didn't see any problem between you guys :001_huh:
> I put in my two pennies worth as I thought my experience may help. Always worth looking at different angles.
> I think FH may be very helpful to Soozi so please don't stop discussing on here


Thank you Moggie but I was getting annoyed and that's not the right frame of mind to be discussing anything on the internet. I took time out from the thread, I hope I've explained myself and I am sorry for any offence caused. Trust me if I hadn't stepped away I would have caused some, and that's not helpful to anyone.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> Thank you Moggie but I was getting annoyed and that's not the right frame of mind to be discussing anything on the internet. I took time out from the thread, I hope I've explained myself and I am sorry for any offence caused. Trust me if I hadn't stepped away I would have caused some, and that's not helpful to anyone.


No need to get annoyed as you say it is not helpful! I am just not very good at explaining myself in the written word! and admit I was thinking after the biting incident yesterday more of Why she did it! I am not an aggressive person and I make mistakes like anyone else! Not all of us are cat experts! None of my posts were meant to antagonise anyone! Thank you FH and all for your replies! It has helped just sharing and getting sensible advice


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Ah no harm done eh 
Good God we all get annoyed - why do you think nobody is commenting on that thread about the ragdoll :lol:
It's killing me not to say anything but I won't because that's what she wants


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> Ah no harm done eh
> Good God we all get annoyed - why do you think nobody is commenting on that thread about the ragdoll :lol:
> It's killing me not to say anything but I won't because that's what she wants


I haven't looked at that thread! Oooooeeer! Yes of course we all get annoyed and upset under certain circumstances! I should have waited until I calmed down before I posted! Anyway Liddy (my cat's name) and I will sort it out between us over time! Such a shame we can't cat speak!:biggrin:


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Soozi said:


> No need to get annoyed as you say it is not helpful! I am just not very good at explaining myself in the written word! and admit I was thinking after the biting incident yesterday more of Why she did it! I am not an aggressive person and I make mistakes like anyone else! Not all of us are cat experts! None of my posts were meant to antagonise anyone! Thank you FH and all for your replies! It has helped just sharing and getting sensible advice


Soozi thank you, I'm sorry I read it very differently. Have any common factors come to light yet? I don't know, maybe raising your hands in the air, making a quick movement, putting your hands out of sight ... anything at all no matter how small?



moggie14 said:


> Ah no harm done eh
> Good God we all get annoyed - why do you think nobody is commenting on that thread about the ragdoll :lol:
> It's killing me not to say anything but I won't because that's what she wants


Oh yes that one. The one that wanted a boy so she's gone out and got another girl, and can't have 3 cats so has just gone out and got a 3rd cat, with no papers.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Here's some photos of my Liddy girl! Butter wouldn't melt eh!:biggrin:


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

awwwww princess Liddy ....beautiful


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> Soozi thank you, I'm sorry I read it very differently. Have any common factors come to light yet? I don't know, maybe raising your hands in the air, making a quick movement, putting your hands out of sight ... anything at all no matter how small?


There was honestly nothing that I did to trigger her action off FH! sometimes when I get in bed and she is already there she will jump and bite my feet through the covers but it's always playful! She will stay on my bed the entire night unless she needs her tray but will always return immediately to snuggle! so I hope I am not giving the impression that I have an aggressive cat as she really isn't at all! she sprawls out and lays against me in the evenings staring at me with half closed eyes and we exchange blinkie kisses her paws air-padding and purring! If I can fathom out what spooks her I'll report back to you guys! When we first got Liddy she would really struggle the minute you picked her up but never got aggressive about it, with baby steps we got her used to that and she's absolutely fine with it now! We felt we needed to get over that hurdle for when she needs claws clipping and for administering any medications and most importantly if she ever needed rescuing from a dangerous situation! I must go and find the ragdoll thread!

PS. Liddy has chosen herself to be more a house cat only venturing out in the garden if we are out there!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

She is very beautiful Soozi:001_wub::001_wub: I love her pale colouring - can't quite tell from the photo if she is cream or pale silver?


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Wow Liddy is very pretty 
You don't have an aggressive cat there, it sounds like your relationship is developing really well! I can't wait to here more about how she gets on, whether you can pinpoint a trigger for her behaviour or if it is a passing phase


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

chillminx said:


> She is very beautiful Soozi:001_wub::001_wub: I love her pale colouring - can't quite tell from the photo if she is cream or pale silver?


Thanks chillminx! she is beautiful! she is a cream/Sand colour! I live in Tenerife and the street cat situation here is appalling to say the least! There is no such thing as RSPCA only some kind people that take in cats or kittens that are in real danger! there is nothing we can do about the colonies of cats living wild everywhere! I do try to help the two main charities by picking up donated blankets and towels also pick up as many cat carriers as I can lay my hands on for the trapping program as they run a Trap/Neuter/Return program a few times a year whereby Vets from Germany and UK come over and give their time (free) to neuter as many cats that can be trapped in a week or so, neutered and returned to where they were found! they clip the ear of the cats so they can identify them for the next time! they also give them an antibiotic jab to safeguard against infection! that's about all they can do without a cent from the Canarian or Spanish Government! Even though one of these kind Charity people rescued Liddy from a shopping trolley outside Lidl who knows she might have started her life on the streets!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> Wow Liddy is very pretty
> You don't have an aggressive cat there, it sounds like your relationship is developing really well! I can't wait to here more about how she gets on, whether you can pinpoint a trigger for her behaviour or if it is a passing phase


Oooh I'm like a proud Mum now! I honestly think Liddy will get over whatever it is that might have bothered her! but I will let you know!

As you can see her body language says it all!


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## witchyone (Dec 16, 2011)

Liddy is gorgeous  When I first took in my girl Dora she would sometimes bite me. Her previous owner, who more or less dumped her, wasn't the nicest of people so I think Dora had a few issues. I would just walk away and go and stem the flow of blood coming from me  I didn't realise just a glancing blow from a cat could cause the blood to flow quite so readily 
She is much more even tempered and happy now but will on occasion have a bit of a mood so I take heed of the warning shot.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

witchyone said:


> Liddy is gorgeous  When I first took in my girl Dora she would sometimes bite me. Her previous owner, who more or less dumped her, wasn't the nicest of people so I think Dora had a few issues. I would just walk away and go and stem the flow of blood coming from me  I didn't realise just a glancing blow from a cat could cause the blood to flow quite so readily
> She is much more even tempered and happy now but will on occasion have a bit of a mood so I take heed of the warning shot.


Aww Thanks! Of course after yesterday's experience I am now very aware that it could happen again and I know how best to deal with it! I will still love her whatever what! Thanks again to everyone


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## LeaderOfThePack (Nov 11, 2013)

chillminx said:


> Crikey, I can well imagine your cat(s) wouldn't dare put a whisker out of place in your presence.
> 
> Seriously though, is this a wind-up


Lmao, why do people always think my posts are a wind up?
I like to let my animals know who's in charge, get over it peoples!
I'm sure if any of yous want to stop your animals from walking all over you, you'd agree.

Ya can't stop problems by blinkin molly coddling them!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

LeaderOfThePack said:


> Ya can't stop problems by blinkin molly coddling them!


Why do you think people are molly-coddling them?

Go on, I want to know.

(By the way I have a lot of cat experience under my belt, 25 years' worth, including breeding, so I'm genuinely interested to hear your take on this).


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

LeaderOfThePack said:


> Lmao, why do people always think my posts are a wind up?
> I like to let my animals know who's in charge, get over it peoples!
> I'm sure if any of yous want to stop your animals from walking all over you, you'd agree.
> 
> Ya can't stop problems by blinkin molly coddling them!


Sounds to me like you're not a cat person. It's not a matter of mollycoddling but cats have a slightly different psychological make-up to dogs you know. The cat has no concept of anyone being "in charge" all a cat knows is that someone makes them feel afraid and unsafe. You get a lot more cooperation out of any animal of any species if you understand how its mind works and gain its trust. A cat that doesn't trust you is just a feral liability in your house.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi friends!
Oh dear! another episode last night I'm afraid! I was in the garden and got up to come in, Liddy raced in ahead of me and stopped at the coffee table in front of the Sofa I was just about to sit in my normal place on the sofa and noticed she was giving me daggers I turned and moved very slowly to just walk away but she launched herself up my leg using all her force she did not try to bite this time! I did not look at her and continued to walk slowly out of the room! When I came back 5 minutes later she was just relaxing on the rug! Once again I could not see any trigger as to why she flipped! I am going to plug the feliway back in and see if this calms her down! I'll see how she goes and maybe take her to the Vet to see if there is anything wrong! (I don't think so though) My Vet is great and treats a lot of the street and feral cats here so might be able to add her two penneth! So disappointing as I hoped that the bite was a one off!:001_unsure:


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Good plan. Some vets have a behaviourist connected to the practice. All the best.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

One bite does not a killer make. It probably has something to do with her previous life. My Girly showed occasional very aggressive behaviour (we called her the hellcat) when we first got her. I am sure it was because her previous "owners" (may they rot in hell) allowed their small children to play roughly with her. It took a long time, but she eventually calmed down. There are certain things that trigger her (the bed monster game for instance). However, she may have mistaken your fleece covered arm for a moving toy (this has happened to me sometimes) and she didn't mean to bite "you" if you know what I mean. The worry is when they attack bare flesh.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

ForeverHome said:


> Sounds to me like you're not a cat person. It's not a matter of mollycoddling but cats have a slightly different psychological make-up to dogs you know. The cat has no concept of anyone being "in charge" all a cat knows is that someone makes them feel afraid and unsafe. You get a lot more cooperation out of any animal of any species if you understand how its mind works and gain its trust. A cat that doesn't trust you is just a feral liability in your house.


Agree 100%. In my experience, "bad" or aggressive behaviour in a cat is almost always a result of fear or feeling trapped or helpless or endangered, rather than ingrained aggression.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

LeaderOfThePack said:


> Lmao, why do people always think my posts are a wind up?
> I like to let my animals know who's in charge, get over it peoples!
> I'm sure if any of yous want to stop your animals from walking all over you, you'd agree.
> 
> Ya can't stop problems by blinkin molly coddling them!


Do you actually know ANYTHING about cats?
Or dogs, for that matter.....


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> Good plan. Some vets have a behaviourist connected to the practice. All the best.


Hi FH I see by one of your posts that you have a great deal of experience and have bred cats too! Have you come across this before? After having Liddy for 4 months in your opinion does her sudden and increasing spurts of aggression seem unusual?


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Soozi said:


> Hi FH I see by one of your posts that you have a great deal of experience and have bred cats too! Have you come across this before? After having Liddy for 4 months in your opinion does her sudden and increasing spurts of aggression seem unusual?


Nonono I have never bred cats, I just take an interest in their psychology and behaviour.

I can tell you about a couple of examples where I've stopped any aggression developing. Molly at first was quite rude about telling me to go away when she'd had enough, I learned to recognise before she got to that point with subtle changes in her look (like you see Liddy's look change) and walk away saying it's ok, good girl. If I get it wrong and she gives me a warning snap and hiss I walk away, then she keeps looking at me across the room and I keep saying it's all right. Gradually it's getting better.

The other one was Henry when he first came, he loves a tummy rub and is always showing off his tummy. I don't blame him because it's beautiful. I could stroke it but OH couldn't, Henry would close in with teeth and claws and he was getting worse. I showed OH how to approach, head first, let him sniff the hand, rub under the chin and gradually work down to his tummy. Lunging in with the hand was a shock so Henry was reacting. That situation could have spiralled very quickly and he's a big strong tom so it could have been very nasty.

With Liddy, as you did walking away sounds great, she had a little cooling off time and she did. If you can walk away as soon as you see the look softly telling her it's ok, even better. But I'm convinced there is one or several triggers, attack is a reaction, the tricky part is finding out what they are reacting to which as you say seems to be nothing! This time, let me see, were you maybe walking quite quickly directly towards her?

If it's an issue from her past haunting her, it's worth thinking of it as though for a moment she hasn't recognised you, because all she has seen is the thing she fears - an action (like walking quickly towards her or having armfuls of washing or whatever triggers her) or an object (welly boots or a carrier bag or a plate, anything!). If she's afraid of it she will see that like a big neon sign and you and all the background would be faded away. Is this making any sense?

It's not a criticism of you in any way to say there are triggers to her behaviour, just a starting point to working on turning her fears around. But I'm not a behaviourist and if you can get hold of a good one, definitely do it  And the vet should eliminate any possible physical health issues, too. If she had sudden pain, for example, that could be a trigger but you'd never be able to predict it. Doesn't sound like it though, at the moment my money's on you making unexpected, sudden or big rapid movements.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

koekemakranka said:


> One bite does not a killer make. It probably has something to do with her previous life. My Girly showed occasional very aggressive behaviour (we called her the hellcat) when we first got her. I am sure it was because her previous "owners" (may they rot in hell) allowed their small children to play roughly with her. It took a long time, but she eventually calmed down. There are certain things that trigger her (the bed monster game for instance). However, she may have mistaken your fleece covered arm for a moving toy (this has happened to me sometimes) and she didn't mean to bite "you" if you know what I mean. The worry is when they attack bare flesh.


As I said previously we don't know where she started life! it could have been in a bush somewhere and what were her previous owners like! I am only trying to think things through as to why this is suddenly happening she settled in really well when we got her 4 months ago and she seemed very happy and well adjusted she has slept on the bed with us from day 1...it's the sudden change that concerns me I am not going to panic and rush off to the Vet I want to give Liddy a little longer to see if she calms a bit! The cattery lady I adopted Liddy from said she did not like to be around the other cats but didn't fight with them she would find a quiet spot under a chair or sit outside her pen to be let back in! There is only myself and my husband and our household is quiet! I know some of you think I'm over reacting! I am a worrier by nature and my cat's mental well being and health are most important to me! so you will have to put up with me waffling on!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> Nonono I have never bred cats, I just take an interest in their psychology and behaviour.
> 
> I can tell you about a couple of examples where I've stopped any aggression developing. Molly at first was quite rude about telling me to go away when she'd had enough, I learned to recognise before she got to that point with subtle changes in her look (like you see Liddy's look change) and walk away saying it's ok, good girl. If I get it wrong and she gives me a warning snap and hiss I walk away, then she keeps looking at me across the room and I keep saying it's all right. Gradually it's getting better.
> 
> ...


Yes I did understand what you said! Since Liddy bit me on Saturday I have been much more aware of how I am moving around! we have marble floors so I'm never inclined to chase about the place but I am just going to monitor how she is for a few days and see how we go! I will be going to the Vet soon anyway as she cuts Liddy's claws nicely and quickly! I will certainly ask her about a behaviorist if she feels it's necessary or if in fact there are any on this Island!


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Ah yes. 

How are you feeling about Liddy now compared to Saturday? Are you still wary of her, or feeling better that you can get through this together? 

Liddy may give you some clues as to her background. Henry for example used to run and hide as soon as the bin lorry came into the street. When he first came he had two nasty injuries. We put two and two together and think he may have fallen in or maybe been hit by it. Molly (to my surprise) bolted when my friend was undoing the poppers on the quilt cover. 

But you should be able to do loads for Liddy with just some simple awareness and observation. It was months before I could walk past Molly with a plastic bag, holding it away from her, walking slowly, talking to her - and now she doesn't flinch, just watches me. It's taken 9 months to get this far 

Only difference between Liddy and Molly I think is Molly hides but Liddy lashes out. I'm sure you will get there x


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> Ah yes.
> 
> How are you feeling about Liddy now compared to Saturday? Are you still wary of her, or feeling better that you can get through this together?
> 
> ...


I suppose I am a bit wary (she might be able to sense this) but keeping my eye on her for any other signs of mood changes! I'm going about my daily business as I always do and giving her strokes and chatting to her as usual, I think changing anything out of the ordinary will not help it might just confuse her! She's a strong willed girl and nothing I know of fazes her! she will now and again even sit on the garden wall and tease the dog next door by leaning over and slapping the wall with her paw! He loves cats as he has been brought up with one since a puppy. One thing Liddy has not done is hiss or growl at me! so that's something on the plus side!

I have just noticed this thread! http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-training-behaviour/353970-cat-behaviour.html and the funny thing is that ever since we have had Liddy she rubs on things a lot too but has done that since we had her! apart from ripping up the carpet as the cat in the thread is doing her behaviour sounds very similar to Liddy!


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## LeaderOfThePack (Nov 11, 2013)

MerlinsMum said:


> Why do you think people are molly-coddling them?
> 
> Go on, I want to know.
> 
> (By the way I have a lot of cat experience under my belt, 25 years' worth, including breeding, so I'm genuinely interested to hear your take on this).


I have had cats all my life and they all love me! I have always said "no" when they do something bad and they stop doing it and just meow at me. After doing this a few times they stop doing it altogether (like scratching the door). I think I have a lot of experience with both cats and dogs and both love me. 
I've managed to get them out of most bad habits.
I admit of course that some of the bad habits I am unsure how to deal with so I ask help on here.



ForeverHome said:


> Sounds to me like you're not a cat person. It's not a matter of mollycoddling but cats have a slightly different psychological make-up to dogs you know. The cat has no concept of anyone being "in charge" all a cat knows is that someone makes them feel afraid and unsafe. You get a lot more cooperation out of any animal of any species if you understand how its mind works and gain its trust. A cat that doesn't trust you is just a feral liability in your house.


Hey 
I am a cat person. I love cats. I think they are great but I've never had any bad experiences with my cats so perhaps I've been doing something right by them.
I remember one of my 3 cats was scared of me for a while and she used to run away but I gained her trust slowly by cuddling her every chance I got.

Dont' worry I've always been fair with my cats.

I agree that they think differently


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

LeaderOfThePack said:


> Hey
> I am a cat person. I love cats. I think they are great but I've never had any bad experiences with my cats so perhaps I've been doing something right by them.
> I remember one of my 3 cats was scared of me for a while and she used to run away but I gained her trust slowly by cuddling her every chance I got.
> 
> ...


As I've said elsewhere I think you come across very differently once people get to know you a bit. Now we've discussed things more we've found we actually agree on a lot of things, even though we often post as if we had completely opposite views!

Saying No to an animal is not at all what comes across from other things you have said before about showing them who's boss, and leaving them in no doubt that they've done wrong. Those phrases sound as though you're a bully! But you're not at all, you just have boundaries and you teach them what No means. Remember I wrote the comment you just replied to before we explained ourselves to each other.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I really do feel there has to be some house rules! Cats may not understand a lot of things but at the end of the day we have to live together in a way so all are happy! If they are domesticated I do think cats understand a lot more than we realise! My Liddy has jumped on our dining table on occasion she knows this is out of bounds and just a firm "No Liddy" she will jump off!

Back on topic! I have just returned from the Vet to get Liddy's claws cut she was as good as gold! I told the Vet about the nasty bite on Saturday and her pouncing on my leg the following night also on the Tuesday night she made a grab for my hand but it was only a grab with her teeth and didn't hurt! The Vet suggested that when/if Liddy attacks in any way to hold (not grab or squeeze) her by the scruff and press her head downwards towards the floor hold for a few seconds at the same time say No Liddy in a firm but not raised or angry voice then release and walk away! I'm not sure about this method but My Vet has 27 years experience as a vet and even more with Domestic, Street and feral cats and gets very involved with the neutering program run by the small cat charities here in Tenerife, she has some pens at the surgery where she keeps some street or stray/abanoned cats/kittens that are suitable for rehoming! She tells me that I have to think like a cat and sometimes behave like a cat myself! LOL! and if Liddy understands the word NO then to carry on with the word she recognises! She said it is definitely a No No to wave arms or hands about and scream at the cat this will worsen the situation. Hope I don't have cause to use any form of reprimand!


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

That sounds about right. I have one that gets overexcited sometimes and starts to bite. If she is attached to me at the time, I push her away firmly, say no, withdraw and walk away. I try to avoid it becoming a wrestling match, because I suspect she enjoys a bit of a scrap.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Soozi said:


> > The Vet suggested that when/if Liddy attacks in any way to hold (not grab or squeeze) her by the scruff and press her head downwards towards the floor hold for a few seconds at the same time say No Liddy in a firm but not raised or angry voice then release and walk away!
> 
> 
> The primary issue is to try and identify exactly why the cat is attacking you. e.g. is it out of out of fear, or because she is overexcited and wants to play boisterously, or some other reason entirely?
> ...


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Soozi said:


> *The Vet suggested that when/if Liddy attacks in any way to hold (not grab or squeeze) her by the scruff and press her head downwards towards the floor hold for a few seconds at the same time say No Liddy in a firm but not raised or angry voice then release and walk away*! I'm not sure about this method but My Vet has 27 years experience as a vet and even more with Domestic, Street and feral cats and gets very involved with the neutering program run by the small cat charities here in Tenerife,


Sorry to disagree with your vet but that IMO is one of the worst things you could do.If she is attacking out of anger she will retaliate,if in some mis-directed play or fear she will be scared and will not understand,either way it would be the last action I would consider.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Soozi said:


> I did think this! I was just moving a blanket that was already folded my hands were not hidden and my movements not fast,* she knew it was not a catch and kill game!* well the look she gave me was really quite scary! I lost my last lovely girl to Lymphoma and took this little one as she had been abandoned in a shopping trolley outside Lidl she was not chipped and a friend of mine here in Tenerife runs a small boarding cattery and takes in the odd stray or abandoned cats so we don't know much about her young life! I don't want to feel wary around her and can't believe she meant to harm me! The incident has really upset me!


Maybe, maybe not - but with many predatory animals (especially cats!) the instinct to pounce is so strong that they have acted before they even realise that they have moved! She probably got as much of a surprise as you did - especially when you squealed!

(Just out of interest, is she a tortoiseshell? Torties have a reputation for being aggressive - though I have had three; one was the most loving, cuddly, affectionate cat you could ever imagine, one was aloof, but not nasty, and the third bit and scratched for England! Personally I think that the cat's personality is more influential than the colour)

I'm sure that she didn't intend any harm - cats can be rough when they are being affectionate, as well, so it could be she was giving you a love bite. If you squeal and tell her "No", she'll soon learn not to do it.

EDIT: just read your vet's suggestion - please don't hold her down - it will terrify her, make her reluctant to come near you and cause her to become aggressive.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

The Vet showed me how to do this! it did not seem rough in the least and only takes seconds You must not grab and hold down in a aggressive/forceful way! I am hoping I would not have to try anything! I should say at this point (if I haven't already) is that Liddy is a very confident cat and doesn't seem to be afraid of anything she even mentally bullies the dog next door as I have said in an earlier post, even when she's having one of her manic play sessions with her imaginary cat her tail always fluffs up and she does that thing where they arch their backs and walk like a crab!! so I really think she just gets over excited! Between us we will get through this! I like to think that she will grow out of this phase! she is only just over a year now so still young and playful! I like her zest for life!

My last girl who I lost last year to Lymphoma after unsuccessful Chemo was thrown into my garden when she was about 4 months! she was 3 colour cat and never bit me in the whole 7 years I had her!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

chillminx said:


> Crikey, I can well imagine your cat(s) wouldn't dare put a whisker out of place in your presence.
> 
> Seriously though, is this a wind-up


Apparently,LOTP has some issues him/herself, which (s)he is projecting on their pets.......


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## PhilC4 (Feb 26, 2014)

When my kitty would bite, I would say NO firmly and then ignore her for a bit. After a while it was no fun for her so she stopped.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

PhilC4 said:


> When my kitty would bite, I would *say NO firmly and then ignore her for a bit. * After a while it was no fun for her so she stopped.


Yes! I think I will carry on with this method if Liddy nips or pounces! if she should give me a nasty bite that I know isn't playful I will try the method that the Vet suggested to calm her! I don't think in Liddy's case there will be any fear of me scaring her! it is possible to be gentle but firm.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

chillminx said:


> Soozi said:
> 
> 
> > The primary issue is to try and identify exactly why the cat is attacking you. e.g. is it out of out of fear, or because she is overexcited and wants to play boisterously, or some other reason entirely?
> ...


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## LeaderOfThePack (Nov 11, 2013)

Soozi said:


> I really do feel there has to be some house rules! Cats may not understand a lot of things but at the end of the day we have to live together in a way so all are happy! If they are domesticated I do think cats understand a lot more than we realise! My Liddy has jumped on our dining table on occasion she knows this is out of bounds and just a firm "No Liddy" she will jump off!
> 
> Back on topic! I have just returned from the Vet to get Liddy's claws cut she was as good as gold! I told the Vet about the nasty bite on Saturday and her pouncing on my leg the following night also on the Tuesday night she made a grab for my hand but it was only a grab with her teeth and didn't hurt! The Vet suggested that when/if Liddy attacks in any way to hold (not grab or squeeze) her by the scruff and press her head downwards towards the floor hold for a few seconds at the same time say No Liddy in a firm but not raised or angry voice then release and walk away! I'm not sure about this method but My Vet has 27 years experience as a vet and even more with Domestic, Street and feral cats and gets very involved with the neutering program run by the small cat charities here in Tenerife, she has some pens at the surgery where she keeps some street or stray/abanoned cats/kittens that are suitable for rehoming! She tells me that I have to think like a cat and sometimes behave like a cat myself! LOL! and if Liddy understands the word NO then to carry on with the word she recognises! She said it is definitely a No No to wave arms or hands about and scream at the cat this will worsen the situation. Hope I don't have cause to use any form of reprimand!


I agree, that is exactly right! Cats do need rules and boundaries, that's what I was trying to tell the people on this thread. By doing this you show who is master and the cat will respect you more for it anyway. I do know that if you let them, they will rule the house, and that is why I feel that you need to reprimand when they do wrong and not just let it go


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## LeaderOfThePack (Nov 11, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> As I've said elsewhere I think you come across very differently once people get to know you a bit. Now we've discussed things more we've found we actually agree on a lot of things, even though we often post as if we had completely opposite views!
> 
> Saying No to an animal is not at all what comes across from other things you have said before about showing them who's boss, and leaving them in no doubt that they've done wrong. Those phrases sound as though you're a bully! But you're not at all, you just have boundaries and you teach them what No means. Remember I wrote the comment you just replied to before we explained ourselves to each other.


Yes, people do need to get to know me better before judging.
The best way to do this is to chat one to one I think.
I find that if I try to speak to a large amount of people, there will always be one or a few that argue with me and then of course I will go on the defensive, it's my instinct, and may not express myself very well and come across like an arrogant bully.
Explaining is easier when you chat one to one rather than having to deal with and explain to a bunch of people who disapprove.

I am no bully and try my very best to be as calm as possible with my animals. When I say I let them know who's boss, I just mean I give them rules and boundaries like you say! :thumbup1:
No nastiness there.

It was nice to get to know you better, too


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Looks like humans can bite too!:lol:


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I still do think that the avoid/distract/ignore technique will work eventually 
The main problem I can see with scruffing, is that this won't always be possible because it will depend on the circumstances of the attack ie. where you are, what position you are standing/sitting in, if the cat runs away etc etc. For it to be effective you would need to do it straight away and if I was you I wouldn't be able to move or think quickly enough 
Keep persevering, I'm pretty confident this stage will soon pass


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

LeaderOfThePack said:


> you show who is master and the cat will respect you more for it


TBH it's comments like this that are not helping your argument  
I don't want to be 'master' of my cats, that is such a 'dog' term


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> I still do think that the avoid/distract/ignore technique will work eventually
> The main problem I can see with scruffing, is that this won't always be possible because it will depend on the circumstances of the attack ie. where you are, what position you are standing/sitting in, if the cat runs away etc etc. For it to be effective you would need to do it straight away and if I was you I wouldn't be able to move or think quickly enough
> Keep persevering, I'm pretty confident this stage will soon pass


I totally agree with your comments moggie14! The Vet did say that if she did run off after an attack it would be too late to use the scruffing method! So as you say it probably would not be an option!


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

I really do not like the idea of scruffing or otherwise 'disciplining' a rescue cat of unknown history for an attack that sounds to me like it's triggered by fear. Ignoring may be a better option but if the triggers are not identified and worked with and there is ingrained frustration it's only going to come out some other way. I do not believe it's possible to resolve a behaviour like this without understanding its root cause and working with the cat to get through it properly. I have put in many hours patient work with Molly to help her see the world isn't as scary as she thinks it is and I don't believe there are any short cuts. I wait to be proved wrong.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> Ignoring may be a better option but if the triggers are not identified and worked with and there is ingrained frustration it's only going to come out some other way.


Oh yes totally agree. Identify the trigger but ignore/distract from the behaviour for now. 
Sorry I didn't mean ignore completely - that's not going to help owner or cat 

Just a random thought.... keep a note of each time it happens. Time of day, room in house, lighting, temperature, circumstances. What you are wearing eg. clothes, jewellery, perfume etc. Cats are funny and sensitive little things, could be something we haven't thought of yet


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## korrok (Sep 4, 2013)

I would never ever advise anyone to scruff a cat. I'm going to be a little contentious here and say that a lot of people - even long term cat owners sometimes - can be rather rough with their pets or not know how to properly handle them. In particular someone with little experience has a good chance of hurting a cat by using too much force. 

Add to that, as ForeverHome said, using any force or aggressive method on a rescue cat of unknown background would be a huge no-no. If a cat has been showing any signs of nervousness, any kind of negative method is going to be an enormous no-no because their trust is so very easily damaged and that damage can and will last for YEARS.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> Oh yes totally agree. Identify the trigger but ignore/distract from the behaviour for now.
> Sorry I didn't mean ignore completely - that's not going to help owner or cat
> 
> Just a random thought.... keep a note of each time it happens. Time of day, room in house, lighting, temperature, circumstances. What you are wearing eg. clothes, jewellery, perfume etc. Cats are funny and sensitive little things, could be something we haven't thought of yet


Yes I have made a note of the incidents! The first what I call serious bite was morning and anything could have triggered that off! the two other attempts were the pouncing on my legs the following day and then two days after that which was just a grab at my hand! these were both evening time when she is inclined to go into her manic mode! that was Tuesday so today is now 4 days without any biting or pouncing! so far so good! I agree with all the comments about scruffing a cat and am not intending doing this! I much prefer the "No" and walk away and give her time to calm a bit! Liddy although very confident is also very clingy with me I won't do anything to destroy the trust she has with me for anything! I have had cats all my life and do have some insight to their behaviour.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Well 4 days uneventful is a good start Soozi 
I know you wouldn't do anything to destroy that trust. Onwards and upwards I say


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## lazydays (Mar 1, 2014)

I found my cat at a couple of weeks old, he started biting as soon as he started eating solid food. He's now 10 months and still does it. At first I was hoping it was because he had no siblings to play with or mother to teach him. Now I'm convinced he's just attention seeking. 
I could be sat still watching tv and before I know it he's biting my nose or hanging off my arm. Not a day goes by where he doesn't at least nibble. I'm hoping he grows out of it I've tried everything!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

lazydays said:


> > I'm convinced he's just attention seeking.
> 
> 
> If you're certain this is the reason he bites then he will definitely benefit
> ...


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

moggie14 said:


> I still do think that the avoid/distract/ignore technique will work eventually
> The main problem I can see with scruffing, is that this won't always be possible because it will depend on the circumstances of the attack ie. where you are, what position you are standing/sitting in, if the cat runs away etc etc. For it to be effective you would need to do it straight away and if I was you I wouldn't be able to move or think quickly enough
> Keep persevering, I'm pretty confident this stage will soon pass


Agree, not all cats will take kindly to scruffing. My Girly will see it as an invitation to wrestle, which is really the opposite of what I would like.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

LeaderOfThePack said:


> I agree, that is exactly right! Cats do need rules and boundaries, that's what I was trying to tell the people on this thread. By doing this you show who is master and the cat will respect you more for it anyway. I do know that if you let them, *they will rule the house*, and that is why I feel that you need to reprimand when they do wrong and not just let it go


Well my cats rule the house :thumbsup: I don't mind, keeps things orderly due to their somewhat fascist tendencies. Humans need authority.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> Well 4 days uneventful is a good start Soozi
> I know you wouldn't do anything to destroy that trust. Onwards and upwards I say


I am wondering whether I am over feeding Liddy? I don't want to get in a discussion about what I should be feeding her just the amount! she has one 85g tin of wet food and 35g of good quality Grain free 50% chicken dry food formulated for neutered cats but she looks maybe just a little on the tubby side I don't want her to have too much what do you think she currently weighs 4.5kl ?????


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

It depends on her build, shape and metabolism as to whether 4.5 kg is too much or just right.

Body condition is more significant than just weight. Here is a useful tool for assessing your cat's body condition.

http://www.purina.co.uk/content/you...-your-cat's-weight/purina-body-condition-tool


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

chillminx said:


> It depends on her build, shape and metabolism as to whether 4.5 kg is too much or just right.
> 
> Body condition is more significant than just weight. Here is a useful tool for assessing your cat's body condition.
> 
> PURINA- Body Condition Tool


Vet said she's just right! lovely coat bright eyes and good teeth! Just wandered if the food portions sound right?????? My last girl ate what she wanted and was chubby but she was just sooooooooo lazy! Bless her! :laugh: I have looked at that purina chart and Liddy does have a waist!


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

My boys have 100g wet food and 40g good quality dried each per day which seems to suit them well. Both have recently been to the vets for boosters and the vet was happy with their weight and size 
All cats are different of course but I don't think you are overfeeding Liddy


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> My boys have 100g wet food and 40g good quality dried each per day which seems to suit them well. Both have recently been to the vets for boosters and the vet was happy with their weight and size
> All cats are different of course but I don't think you are overfeeding Liddy


Thanks M14! It's just that she has that small fat pocket right at the base of her belly! she's very active so maybe it's just the hormone thing females sometimes get when they have been neutered!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Update on Liddy! I continue to post on this thread as others might recognise the same behaviour that my cat is displaying!

Last night I knew Liddy was going to pounce before she did it! I was in the kitchen and she was sitting just outside the kitchen door just watching me getting on with things and "waiting" something I do every night before bedtime! nothing new there! however I had no choice in the end but to walk past her giving her a wide berth to go to bed I noticed she was walking close beside me low to the ground so I spoke softly to her I stopped when I reached the sofa not engaging in any eye contact, I was just about to put a cushion straight being careful not to move quickly but all the time knowing she was watching me then Pow! she jumped on the sofa and forcefully launched herself at my arm went to bite! I didn't move a muscle as she released immediately I said in a much deeper tone than I would normally speak but not increasing volume and said slowly Noooooooo! she jumped off the sofa and sat right beside me front paws tucked under looking at the floor then looking up at me apologetically, blinking! I left her there without another word and went upstairs she followed quietly after a minute or so and settled on the bed to wait for me when I joined her I just got my book out and ignored her she then just snuggled up beside me as normal! I am still struggling in my mind why she is doing this as I knew for a fact she was ambushing me and I can tell that it is not playful! she is not frightened of me in fact the opposite! I honestly feel that she is trying to show dominance over me or she gets angry when I am not giving her attention! Couldn't use the "throw a toy" method of distraction as nothing was to hand. Feeling a bit downhearted today! Just when I thought we might have have been getting over the problem.:001_unsure:


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

bless , if she is doing this at the same time roughly then it could be frustration , cats noctural instincts are quiet strong and she could be simpily acting out her hunting skills , does she go out? , have you seen any evidence of mice in the house ?

i would encourage fast play with a bouncy dangler toy or similar to tire her out and satisfy the prey drive , it will give both of you confidence and be bonding as well , always finish with gentle stroking and confident sooothing voice , she is defo trying to communicate something to you and im leaning towards boredom and possible insecurities ??


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggiemum said:


> bless , if she is doing this at the same time roughly then it could be frustration , cats noctural instincts are quiet strong and she could be simpily acting out her hunting skills , does she go out? , have you seen any evidence of mice in the house ?
> 
> i would encourage fast play with a bouncy dangler toy or similar to tire her out and satisfy the prey drive , it will give both of you confidence and be bonding as well , always finish with gentle stroking and confident sooothing voice , she is defo trying to communicate something to you and im leaning towards boredom and possible insecurities ??


I feel she is insecure in some way too but certainly not afraid she is one feisty excitable cat LOL! We play a lot moggiemum! I bought three of the same type of fishing rod toy which she absolutely loves but she destroys them so quickly that I now keep stock of them! We had been playing for a good half an hour last night but she had plenty of time to calm down and eat her food! I try to have 3 or 4 vigorous play sessions with her a day until we are both worn out. I have the feliway diffuser on 24/7 now I used to have it set on/off on a timer going off at midnight and coming on again early morning (4am) they are so expensive here but I have ignored the cost in hope that it might help! I also agree she might be trying to convey something but don't know what! last night's episode was without a doubt premeditated! I have been looking on the internet and making enquiries about a behaviourist but there doesn't seem to be one on the Island not one that people know of or could recommend! I am determined to get to the bottom of this recent aggression and hopefully resolve it but at the moment I feel I can't do right for doing wrong!

PS. Yes she does go out into the garden she has access to outside whenever she wants as I work from home but she never ventures further than next door to watch the birds in their tree! When she comes up to bed she is in for the night (no outdoor access) but she sleeps throughout and doesn't make any attempt to get up until we start stirring around 8am! she may go down to have a pee in the night but comes straight back to bed!


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## shortandfurry (Jan 30, 2013)

Soozi said:


> I bought three of the same type of fishing rod toy which she absolutely loves but *she destroys them so quickly* that I now keep stock of them!


Just want to pick up on this .... I don't know if cats act the same as dogs in this regard but bear with me .... my parents' dog used to love squeaky rubbery toys and virtually any toy that made noise and he could chew and throw around BUT he loved some more than others.
For whatever reason, some he'd rip to bits and utterly destroy, but some he kept for years - he'd still chew them and play with them and throw them around - but he didn't wreck them. Even some really cheap ones that he could have ripped apart in seconds if he wanted to.
Took us a while to catch on to what he was doing because he _appeared _to enjoy the toys that he ruined but it became clear that he had preferences and any toy that didn't live up to his standards, he'd rip it to bits.

So maybe she doesn't actually love those toys, she just likes destroying them? Maybe she's trying to tell you to replace them with something better?
I dunno, I'm no expert  just a thought.

Our Lily cat likes to rip feathers out of any toy that has them but I think that's more of a prey-killing thing?

Have to say the two best cat toys we have are the cat dancer and cat charmer, you can give the cat a heck of a workout just by flicking your wrist.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

shortandfurry said:


> Just want to pick up on this .... I don't know if cats act the same as dogs in this regard but bear with me .... my parents' dog used to love squeaky rubbery toys and virtually any toy that made noise and he could chew and throw around BUT he loved some more than others.
> For whatever reason, some he'd rip to bits and utterly destroy, but some he kept for years - he'd still chew them and play with them and throw them around - but he didn't wreck them. Even some really cheap ones that he could have ripped apart in seconds if he wanted to.
> Took us a while to catch on to what he was doing because he _appeared _to enjoy the toys that he ruined but it became clear that he had preferences and any toy that didn't live up to his standards, he'd rip it to bits.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply! she has lots of other toys but seems to really enjoy the wand type! she also loves the feathers! and licks them! I feel that the reason she destroys the toys is more because she plays quite aggressively with them! in fact Im beginning to wonder whether these sort of playtimes are making things worse! as the first few months when she was unused to play she was fine but it seems the more we play the more excited she gets! so is this sparking off this recent aggression??? I'm desperately looking for any clues as to what might be causing her to attack! I hate to admit but it's making me nervous of her at certain times and if she is sensing this it could even be provoking the situation! I have been feeling quite upset as both my husband and I love her so but am even doubting whether she is happy or this is not the right home for her even though she follows me around all day!


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## shortandfurry (Jan 30, 2013)

Yeah Lily licks the feathers as well, she seems to enjoy the texture (as well as ripping them out )

I should add that the cat dancer (the wire one) is a good challenge because it can move in unpredictable ways but tbh I sometimes worry that they'll hurt themselves on it. Lily in particular really launches herself at it! Jasmine sometimes loses track of it visually so I whip it a bit so she gets the noise and she soon homes in again 
The cat charmer (strip of fleece on a stick) claims to be indestructible - our two certainly haven't done it any damage - and we have lots of fun games with it. 

I was also going to recommend you Lily's favourite fluffy hedgehog (she licks it a LOT) but it's a refillable catnip toy and from the sounds of it your cat doesn't need any extra stimulation  unless you want something to throw down as a "prey" item for her to "kill" after all the wand-chasing?


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

shortandfurry said:


> Yeah Lily licks the feathers as well, she seems to enjoy the texture (as well as ripping them out )
> 
> I should add that the cat dancer (the wire one) is a good challenge because it can move in unpredictable ways but tbh I sometimes worry that they'll hurt themselves on it. Lily in particular really launches herself at it! Jasmine sometimes loses track of it visually so I whip it a bit so she gets the noise and she soon homes in again
> The cat charmer (strip of fleece on a stick) claims to be indestructible - our two certainly haven't done it any damage - and we have lots of fun games with it.
> ...


Thanks for the idea on toys! I have a limited selection as I live in Tenerife which is mostly tourist orientated and it's hard to get stuff sent here from Amazon and the like! they deliver to mainland Spain but not to the Canary Islands! Even the Spanish Amazon don't deliver to Tenerife! I have just asked a friend to bring over some Feliway refils which I purchased from Amazon UK and got sent to him in UK for 13.50 we pay 24 Euros for it here!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

For any members who might still be interested in this thread here's an update! I find it a bit disappointing when someone goes to the trouble of posting a problem but then doesn't come back to tell us things are going!

I have been monitoring Liddy and so far what I am doing at the moment seems to be working! she has not pounced or tried to bite since 10th March! I am almost certain that Liddy is getting over excited as even when she plays her tail will fluff up! Firstly I have cut down a bit on play times in the evenings our last play is a good hour or two before bed! I then feed her while I do the tidying as she is only interested in her food and not me! I then go up the stairs and she will often make a bolt to get up there before me, sometimes she looks as if she might pounce halfway up but I just stop and don't move a muscle and say Nooooo in my newly adopted low voice that I use for these situations! this stops her in her tracks and she just carries on up the stairs calmly! I am putting her recent behaviour down to her becoming more confident around me and her surroundings! I wanted to post again as I hope the feedback will help someone else! I am trying to source some better food for her but so far not much luck over here! :thumbdown:


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Very pleased to hear of the improvements Soozi, and many thanks for coming back to update us - you're right, we do appreciate it when people do! :thumbsup:

It sounds as though you are doing all the right things, and are building a good, close bond with her. I am sure things will continue to get better as time goes on and she becomes more confident and secure in herself. Well done! :thumbsup:


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Still going really well! I am sticking to my regime with playtimes and tidying while she is eating her last meal of the day! no attempts at biting or launching herself at me! I have ordered some Zylkene for Liddy too! it can't do any harm!:thumbsup:


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Sorry I missed your earlier update  Really pleased to hear how well it is going with Liddy :thumbup: Onwards and upwards! xx


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Update on Liddy! but nothing to say except she's completely turned around and does not attempt to pounce or bite at all anymore! I have strictly kept to my playtime regime and a couple of weeks ago ordered a flying Frenzy wand toy (recommended on here) with lots of different attachment toys! Was so impressed with the toy when it arrived and Liddy exhausts herself with it! she does back flips and jumps nearly a metre in the air! Best toy EVER!!! she's a lot more relaxed in herself and both me and my husband have noticed that she's not bushing up her tail now! she would do this when she got too excited (not angry) I would say to anyone who has an excitable, very energetic or bored cat to get one of these toys! you won't be sorry!Who ever it was that recommended the toy! THANKS!!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:






Look at her eyes! :ihih:


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