# Anyon know rough prices for dog injection to stop puppies?!



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Sorry, cant remember what the injections name is or is it a pill they get??

Me and my friend were just at the shop and on coming out to untie the dog his got tangled up, and as he went to untangle her she yanked the lead out of his hand an ran away after the stray dog who has been hangin about.

After 15 mins runnin after them, and stoppin twice to ask people if theyd seen her.. I was looking in the big grass field and luckily heard a yelp.

By this point they were tied and she was getting quite frantic (probably cos my friend was stressin out) but I managed to keep her calm until they parted, meantime removing my belt to use as a lead to catch the collie!

She is in heat and somewhere between the 12-16 days so im rekoning shes prob pregnant now..

We dont have a 24 hr vet close so its gonna have to be 1st thing in the morning. He definately doesnt want her to have pups shes only one and theyv a baby due in 3 weeks,

Just wondered if this happened to anyone and how much vets might usaually charge for pill/jags?

I called the police to collect the dog so the owners will get a nice £80 fine after wonderin why hes not come home (he didnt have a tag)


----------



## jackson (May 22, 2008)

I have no idea how much it costs, and there are various brands on the market. It is an injection generically known as the 'mistmate jab'. Your vet will know what is best to give the bitch. 

The bitch was probably frightened, hence the getting frantic. Dogs can be raped just like humans can. 

It is very responsible of your friend not to allow her ot have pups, she is far too young. Maybe you coudl suggest to him that in future he either doesn't take his bitch out when she is in season, or perhaps has her spayed? The mismate jab can increase the future risk of pyometra, so spaying is probably best anyway.


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Yeah, thanks. i wasnt sure if she was running away from him or with him.
he has so far been very careful with her.. as he owns a male staff too and neither have been done. But she is VERY energetic and his neighbour goes mental when the dogs jumpin up the walls! lol, even when she has been a walk on the lead she isnt tired.

I think he was thinking of breeding them in a couple of years (both are pedigree and kc reg with brill temperament, and he knows lots of responsible people who want pups off them) but I have been trying to talk him out of it. Theres too many unwanted dogs why cant they just get one of them instead?!
Well I think after this scare he will be more likely to get her spayed!


----------



## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Maybe if you explain to him about the pyo that will make up his mind? Also, the KC have urged people not to breed anymore staffies as there are SO many in rescue, so really only the most experienced and responsible within the breed should be contemplating it. 

I don't mean to be rude, but am I right in understanding he left his in season bitch tied up outside a shop unnattended while you both went in? If so, not at all advisable. 

You're a good friend asking advice on his behalf.


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Noo, I was waiting outside with them as the collie has been hanging around all week! We just tied her up while I used the cashpoint (less than 2 metres away) cos she gets hysterical when he leaves her and it upsets my dog and they fight.
Ive been walkin with him since she came into heat so she cant get left on her own. We'v both been soo careful so far and shes almost at the end of her heat it is soo annoying!

I know of this collie and to my knowledge he has sired 3 litters this year. He can climb his 6ft fence and any bitch in heat he will be sure to appear at some point. I just wish his owners weren't so irresponsible!!! 
My freind wanted to go and demant money for the vet but a) i only know what part of town, not house and b)u cant rele bang on sum1s door n demand money b4 ul give dog back.
i have told police what happened so maybe they will suggest it to them when they go pay to release him?! well it would stop it happenin again.


----------



## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Oh, Apologies, I misunderstood. 

maybe he'll have her spayed. If not, maybe you can suggest some 'dog pants' for her when she is walke during her season. i am not sure they'd make her totally safe, but they'd offer some protection at least. You can get them in Pets At Home. Good luck!


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but please explain to your friend that they were irresponsible in the extreme in taking out an in season bitch and as for leaving her tied up outside a shop....
Not only is he risking her getting pregnant... which it would appear is likely , but the effect on male dogs is totally unfair, and can ruin the behaviour of an entire dog around a bitch... can cause a dog to follow a bitch for miles, putting the dog in danger from traffic etc... and far from this being an irresponsible dog owner that you are pleased to see get an £80 fine, it is also highly likely that it was your friends bitch may have caused this dog to have run away from it's frantic owners who are wondering why it's normally well behaved dog has taken off....


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> He can climb his 6ft fence and any bitch in heat he will be sure to appear at some point. I just wish his owners weren't so irresponsible!!!


I'm sorry, but it IS the bitch owners that are being irresponsible by taking in season bitches out.

I'm sorry, but I can hardly believe what I am reading..... someone who takes their in season bitch out attracting a dog to climb a 6 foot fence (which by any standards is considered secure), then expects the owner of the dog to pay for it's bitch's pregnancy to be terminated... I'm lost for words...

Jackson... I'm sorry, but this is a prime example of why I now encourage neutering of pet....

Poisongirl... if this bitch gets hysterical when her owner leaves and gets stressed, then she does NOT have an brill temperment and should NOT be bred from... Hopefully you can persuade your friend of the error or breeding from a bitch with such a temperament.


----------



## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Dundee said:


> I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but please explain to your friend that they were irresponsible in the extreme in taking out an in season bitch and as for leaving her tied up outside a shop....
> Not only is he risking her getting pregnant... which it would appear is likely , but the effect on male dogs is totally unfair, and can ruin the behaviour of an entire dog around a bitch... can cause a dog to follow a bitch for miles, putting the dog in danger from traffic etc... and far from this being an irresponsible dog owner that you are pleased to see get an £80 fine, it is also highly likely that it was your friends bitch may have caused this dog to have run away from it's frantic owners who are wondering why it's normally well behaved dog has taken off....


To be fair, in some cases it is in the bitches best interests to be walked whilst in season. I know plenty of very experienced breeders who walk their in season bitches, but in a responsible manner and away from other dogs.

If someone wishes to own an entire dog, it is their responsibility to ensure that their dog i skept under control at all times and in a securely fenced garden. That means if it can jump a 6ft fence, you get a higher fence or find a way to keep the dog in. Who's to say the neighbour two doors away isn't going to have an in season bitch they decide to let out in their own garden that tempts the dog to jump the fence?

It does appear the dog owner acted incredibly irresponsibly in this case (I am trying to be nicer, after it was pointed out to me I am not always... ) and I did suggest in this case the bitch is probably better off spayed. However, I woudl still always chose responsible ownership over cutting bits off.


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

She was not left tied up outside a shop I was right next to her, she has not been left alone one moment while she has been in heat.
Just pure coincidence she jerked the lead while he wasnt holding it tightlly trying to untangle her and stop her hurtin her leg.

The reason she stresses when he leaves her outside a shop (and it is only this shop) is because once she was tied up outside it and some neds beat her up. apart from this she has an amazing temperament.

the collie is not normaly well behaved. every bitch in heat within a 5mile radius of him, he's there. even if they are in there own dog run (my neighbour across the field has 2 labs and wen they r in heat the collie shits on her washing and wrecks her garden). he is ALWAYS gettin out, followoin after bitches in heat, crossin busy roads and they have been told to make fence secure several times by community wardens. also his owners dont walk him.

it is impossible not to excercise her while in heat as they share a garden and it is unsuitable to let a dog in (they are awaiting a new house) his missus is 3 weeks to go until baby born and the dog drives her mad if she doesnt get a walk, the neightbour hates dogs and complaines when the dog moans needin to go out.

as i said, i have been encouraging him not to breed from her. and we have been EXTREMELY careful with her since she came into heat. being irresponsible would probably include leaving her in teh same room alone with the male entire staff? no. they have been kept seperate and when they cant be watched they are crated.


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

I'm sorry, Jackson, but it is UTTERLEY irresponsible to walk an in season bitch. If a bitch HAS to be walked... and I have never yet owned one for whom it was detrimental to keep in... there are plenty of other ways to occupy a dog without taking it for walks.... then take it to the nearest industrial estate where there are no dogs around.

It matters not how experienced breeders are, that has no relevance to how responsible they are or how considerate....

An entire dogs owner does not know an in season bitch is being walked until it's dog gets out. A bitch's owner is (or should) be thoroughly aware of the situation. If they cannot manage it then they should get the bitch spayed. That is the responsiblity that comes with owning an entire bitch. Yes, entire owners also have responsibility to have control of their dogs, but the urge to mate is too strong for many, and they owners have no previous knowledge. The weight of responsibility HAS to rest with the bitches owner.

I'm staggered that on the one hand you advocate NOT neutering pets and on the other consider it acceptable to walk in season bitches....

If I come across a little heavy on this issue I make no apologies.... it has to be one of the most important areas of dog ownership... responsible owning of entire dogs... and as has been illustrated can so easily lead to unwanted puppies and possible a dog being killed or worse, causing an accident in which people are hurt, because it is following a natural, powerful instinct.

And, just to add. Your comment that the dog should be neutered doesn't hold water. I know quite a few neutered dogs that are attracted to in season bitches... and have tied... they have not produced puppies, but it does not necessarily stop what is a very strong instinct.


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> She was not left tied up outside a shop I was right next to her, she has not been left alone one moment while she has been in heat.


It's to be commended that they have kept the dog and bitch apart but taking her out while in season, particularly at the fertile time in her season is STILL irresponsible. If they cannot cope or do not have the right environment to keep an entire bitch and dog then they shouldn't have them. There are no excuses that make it acceptable. The behaviour of the collie is somewhat irrelevant. The behaviour of many entire dogs around bitches has been ruined by irresponsible bitch owners walking their dogs in season.

There was a thread recently discussing to neuter or not. There was much support against neutering saying that education is the key. If people take no notice or make excuses and continue to think it acceptable... then education is not going to work.... I rest my case....

I see red on this subject... so will try to put things in a nutshell as to WHY an in season bitch shouldn't be walked, and why it is not enough just to be responsbile for the bitch.

Being responsible for an in season bitch does not ONLY involve keeping her safe from other dogs... it ALSO means managing her welfare so as not to cause problems or distress to other dogs owners, particularly male dog owners, whose behaviour can be negatively influenced by coming into contact with inseason bitches, or the repercussions of what happens if a male dog is desperate to get to said bitch.


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

W live in an area of town where it is common for lazy people to just let their dog out the door to wander the streets. most of these dogs are entire males. it is these owners who are not being responsible as most of these dogs have fathered litters and the owners know about this and have gotten the pick of the litter.

Yes we take them to an industrial estate to walk and were on our way there, but have to walk as do not own a car, so having to walk past the shop.
There is no other option to letting her pee.. he does not want her to think peeing inside is acceptable so doent want to use pads. and as she is a young lively dog she needs a fair amount of excercise.

He's being responsible as he is not allowing her to have this litter of unwanted pups. And it is quite clear he is able to keep an entire male and in heat female in the same house as this is her 2nd season and he has never got her pregnant.

I used to foster an entire male and he could jump my fence no bother so I made him a pen as i know what males can b like and living in an area with lots of dogs I didnt want him running off and being run over.
they chose not to have him castrated as he was a kc reg bred for showing, therefor i had to adapt around this, as should other responsible dog owners. 

you are never going to get an ideal world where all dog owners believe the same thing.. but if all owners made sure their dog cannot escape its garden then it would be a hell of alot better!


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

Taking an in season bitch out for a walk is irresponsible full stop. 

I don't know what peeing inside has to do with it. I would question the wisdom of having a dog if you don't have a garden to use - particuarly one that apparently needs so much exercise. The fact that the owner appears more responsible than other owners around does not make them responsible... just marginally more responsible than others...

As for her temperament... if you are breeding you cannot afford to make excuses for poor temperament, even if you think there is a valid reason for it. ONLY dogs with EXEMPLERARY temperaments should be used for breeding.... NO exceptions.


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

When they got the dogs they were in a suitable place for 2 dogs with a large secure garden.
due to unforseen difficulties they have had to move to temporary accomodation for a short while.
getting rid of the dogs wasnt going to be an option. the only place available willing to accept pets has a **** garden

and well without being taken out to pee.. she would have to pee inside.

when my dog was on heat i managed to take her walks (as well as lots of garden and inside excercise) without her geting pregnant but then i dont live somewhere unsuitable.
bfore you ask- no i dont intend on breeding form her. yes i intend on getting her spayed but didnt have the money to get it done before her 1st season as i lost my job. she will be getting done in the next month or 2.

my friend has said however, he has learned from this experience. he will be taking her to the vet 1st thing 2mro for the jag, and will then be booking her in to be spayed.

it is not however, goin to stop the collie (and the others) straying as near me there are my neighbours who breed labs(working) and other neighbours who breed springers, also working. although all dogs do have proper kennels to keep other dogs out.
there are quite a number of people annoyed with certain dogs owners for letting them wander. someone who doesnt want her dog to be spayed as she is a border collie from great lines and kc reg but the collie hangs around her too.

people with entire dogs need to be aware that there are going to be people who dont want there females spayed for various reasons and should prepare for this.
part of being a responsible owner should be having a secure place for your dog. if he can escape to go after a bitch in heat he could escape anytime and get run over or if he got scared, hurt someone. it doesnt matter if a bitch is in season... you are always gonna get somewhere a bitch in season. it is the owners fault for not being able to manage keeping their dog in a safe environment!! An th fat popl ant kp thir og from gttin out shoul not stop othr rsponsibl owners walking their dog!


----------



## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> people with entire dogs need to be aware that there are going to be people wo dont want there femalesspayed for various reasons and should prepare for this.


Firstly, it is not only entire dogs - many castrated dogs get these urges too... they will follow a bitch... they will tie... they simply will not produce puppies.

A dog owner cannot prepare for this - it is a primal urge... it is not something you can train for.... and while it may be possible to make your garden into a fortress on the offchance that some selfish bitch owner is going to take out their in season bitch, what happens if that dog owner is happily going for a walk when their dog picks up the scent that's been left by the bitch out. And while taking them to an industrial park is fine... walking there and leaving a trail for dogs to pick up defeats the object - if you do that you might just as well take them to the park. I rarely walk my in season bitch - it has no detrimental effect on her, and if I do (driving to an industrial estate), I would NEVER take her out during her most fertile period which it sounds like your friend did. Of course, bitches in season cannot help being in season, but they are not welcome anywhere in public and nor should they be.

There is one indisputable fact:

The well being of a bitch is firmly the responsibility of us bitch owners, not the dog owners. Bitches come into season (Unless we choose to neuter them) and we should all know that when we choose a bitch - if we cannot take that responsiblity then we should get a dog or get them spayed. I do not consider it the responsibility of someone I have never met before to build a fortress around their garden or train their male, or keep them on lead all the time, on the off chance that I may take my bitches out when in season. We are solely responsible for our own actions - not just for the sake of our own bitches, but, if we have any decency, for other dogs too.

I'm glad that your friend has decided to neuter the bitch in question - that at least, is a positive outcome.


----------



## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Dundee said:


> I'm sorry, Jackson, but it is UTTERLEY irresponsible to walk an in season bitch. If a bitch HAS to be walked... and I have never yet owned one for whom it was detrimental to keep in... there are plenty of other ways to occupy a dog without taking it for walks.... then take it to the nearest industrial estate where there are no dogs around. .


Surely the comment 'in a responsible manner, away from other dogs' suggests there are no other dogs around, be it an industrial estate or not?

[/QUOTE]
An entire dogs owner does not know an in season bitch is being walked until it's dog gets out. A bitch's owner is (or should) be thoroughly aware of the situation. If they cannot manage it then they should get the bitch spayed. That is the responsiblity that comes with owning an entire bitch. Yes, entire owners also have responsibility to have control of their dogs, but the urge to mate is too strong for many, and they owners have no previous knowledge. The weight of responsibility HAS to rest with the bitches owner. .[/QUOTE]

I don't suggest it doesn't in a lot of ways. However, as I stated before, if my neighbour, several doors away has an entire dog and I let my own in season bitches out, in my own garden, causing her entire dog to jump out, do you think I'd hold full responsibility for that aswell? Entire or not, people should ensure that their garden is secure enough to stop their dogs escaping. If the entire dog were in an RTA, do you think the courts would say 'X' entire bitch should not have been anywhere near the hous,e or 'X' entire dog shoudl havebeen kept contained in it's garden?

.[/QUOTE]
I'm staggered that on the one hand you advocate NOT neutering pets and on the other consider it acceptable to walk in season bitches....

If I come across a little heavy on this issue I make no apologies.... it has to be one of the most important areas of dog ownership... responsible owning of entire dogs... and as has been illustrated can so easily lead to unwanted puppies and possible a dog being killed or worse, causing an accident in which people are hurt, because it is following a natural, powerful instinct.

And, just to add. Your comment that the dog should be neutered doesn't hold water. I know quite a few neutered dogs that are attracted to in season bitches... and have tied... they have not produced puppies, but it does not necessarily stop what is a very strong instinct.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I do consider it acceptable to walk in season bitches. In the right circumstances. For example. Previously I had access to the farm where I kept my horses. Large farm, no unknown dogs on the property, no other dogs within several miles radias, so I always knew what dogs were about when I walked my bitch there. Also, where we are now. Living in a secure army camp, so the only dogs here are ones I know and we are extremely lucky to have access to a private beach, no outside access, where I can walk the dogs. I wouldn't say that walking my in season bitches in either of these cases is irresponsible or inconsiderate to other dog owners.

I do think education is the key, and those that can't be educated shouldn't own a dog in the first place, entire or neutered. That's not to say I thinkt here should be a blanket no spay or neuter policy, I do agree with it is some cases. I simply do nto agree with it for my dogs, nor the fact that people bandy it about like some sort of cure all.


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks all for advice and help.. My friends vet is very reasonably priced for the mismate jag.. althought one of the jags has to be done on a sunday as there are 2 jags, on the 3rd an 5th day after mating. and its an extra £25 as its out of hours. but he dont mind that

anyone know if pdsa or any other organisation give money towards neutering? just a thought.but they prob dont. 
Demi is feelin very sorry for herself today well im not surprised!  she'l be ok tho.


----------



## jackal (Nov 3, 2008)

I am interested that no-one actually responded to the original question here! Poisongirl asked about the cost of 'morning-after treatment' and eventually answered it herself about 16 hours later. We react emotionally which is not always helpful.


----------



## jackson (May 22, 2008)

jackal said:


> I am interested that no-one actually responded to the original question here! Poisongirl asked about the cost of 'morning-after treatment' and eventually answered it herself about 16 hours later. We react emotionally which is not always helpful.


Nobody knew the answer, but people were trying to be as helpful as they could in the circumstances by offering advice that may prevent the same happening in the future.


----------



## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

poisongirl said:


> Sorry, cant remember what the injections name is or is it a pill they get??
> 
> Me and my friend were just at the shop and on coming out to untie the dog his got tangled up, and as he went to untangle her she yanked the lead out of his hand an ran away after the stray dog who has been hangin about.
> 
> ...


If you phone your vet they will be able to give you an indication on the price.

HTH


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

My friend and I appreciate all the advice.. yes and the negative comments too. Lol. It has given us alot of things to think about and both of us will be getting our dogs neutered.
I suppose I could have waited until this morning to phone the vet and ask price.. but I do like listening to what other people have got to say, and If I hadnt posted on here my friend probably would have just gone and got the jags without even giving neutering or anything else a thought.

If I'm being 100% truthful though I had my doubts when his dog came into heat as sometimes he can be a bit daft. However he has listened to and followed every bit of advice iv given him so far, and made use of the crate I lent him to keep the dogs seperate. I dont usually walk into town everyday with him but I knew she always has to go into 2 places they don't allow dogs so I promised to go too just to be safe.

But just another pointer about problem loose dogs in the area.. my dog isnt even in heat and i looked out the window to see some random dog peeing on my tree!!


----------

