# My cat is the neighbourhood bully... & its getting nasty.



## torkid (May 10, 2015)

Neutered male, coming up for 2 years old. Adopted Aug 2014.
Turns out our cat is the neighbourhood bully, we only found out a few weeks ago but its been going on for a few months. (Lord knows why my neighbours didn't say something sooner) 
We've tried a few things:
Keeping him in at certain times, using feliway pheromone spray, changing up his play time routine to burn off some extra energy, giving said neighbours permission to spray him if he enters their garden/causes trouble. Nothing is working. 
He's a total sweetheart at home, no problems what so ever (asides from occasionally being fussy with food) There's no new cats in the area, if anything there's 1 or 2 less due to someone moving, so I have no idea what his issue is. 
I'm not even sure it's territorial as one of our neighbours told us he was literally stalking their cat, hiding in the garden until she came out onto the deck, creeping up behind her & attacking. Both cats he's bullying are female (if that makes any difference) & it's getting real vicious with them having to go to the vets for emergency treatment on multiple occasions. 
I don't want any bad blood between our neighbours but I feel so bad & their patience is running out.. One has already asked if we'd consider rehoming him & if there are anymore attacks from Alfie then he will forward the vet bills to us... Which I guess is fair. 
Our only option is to keep him in until we figure something like out which will be pretty tough..
Any advice would be great. 

Dani


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi Dani, welcome to Pet Forum

Your cat's aggressive behaviour to the neighbour's cats (stalking, attacking) is territorial. Basically your cat doesn't want the other cats around, and it is his way of trying to get them to leave his territory.

Males are often more tolerant of females than other males, but with some it makes no difference whether the 'intruder' is male or female.

I assume the neighbour acquired her two cats since you adopted your cat 9 months ago in August 2014? Or were her cats there first?

Is your cat your only pet?

The most effective way for you to stop your cat bullying is to fence in your back garden with escape proof fencing. Then your cat can't get out and other cats can't get in. There is a sticky thread on Cat Chat with details of various professional systems available. It needn't be horrendously expensive unless you have a very large garden. Have a read and see what you think.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/cat-runs-cat-proofed-gardens.211361/

Meanwhile I think you'll have to come to an amicable arrangement with your neighbour to operate
a rota system, so her cats and your cats go out at different times of the day. [Your cat is shut indoors at night anyway I assume].

I promise you this can work well providing you have good communication with the neighbour. I have operated such a system myself when one of my neutered males kept fighting with a neighbours cat, causing both of us a lot of expense at the vets getting the cats' injuries treated.

Work out time slots with your neighbour, say 2 hour periods. You'll need to be there to make sure your cat comes home at the end of his allotted time slot. If you can't get him back alert your neighbour so she doesn't let her cats out, then let her know immediately he's back. It may sound complicated, but once you get into the routine it is straightforward, & you get used to watching the clock all the time the cat is out. . I used to put a 2 hour food timer on to remind me.

I think those are your only two feasible options. It would not be fair for your neighbours cats to be bullied and attacked, and I think it would be morally right if your cat did attack her girls again you should offer to pay the vet's bill. I did the same when my cat injured the neighbours cat.

Please don't consider rehoming your cat. He has only been with you 9 mths and barely settled in (Most cats take a year to feel settled in a new home). He sounds like he is a lovely companion to you, good with people, and after all he is only doing what comes naturally, i.e. protecting his territory. He is just a bit more aggressive about it than some cats are.

I suggest you give your cat a course of Zylkene, which is a natural supplement (a byproduct of milk) that is calming. It definitely calmed my aggressive cat down a bit. Don't expect a sudden dramatic change, it is not a sedative and any benefits will be gradual. The capsules can be opened and the powder added to food.

http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/zylkene-capsules-pack-of-20-75mg.html

i am sure with some good will between you and your neighbour a rota system can work for you. Good luck! Please let us know how things go.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Why don't you just say ''I told you so'' and have done with it?

_This was in response to a post which has been removed._


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@leashedForLife - the OP (Dani) is a new Forum Member and she does not know you of old like us 'older' members do. Dani may feel your post is a personal attack on her, which I am sure it is not, and is more likely to be one of your famous "rants" aimed at everyone whose cats go outdoors.

I know you feel very strongly on the subject, but it would be good if you could try and tone down your comments a bit more when posting on the thread of a new member. I don't think that is too much to ask of you.

That is all I want to say on the matter, as I do not want this thread to be hijacked into yet another indoor vs outdoor argument.

EDIT: the post this was in response to has since been removed.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

chillminx said:


> @leashedForLife - the OP (Dani) is a new Forum Member and she does not know you of old like us 'older' members do. Dani may feel your post is a personal attack on her, which I am sure it is not, and is more likely to be one of your famous "rants" aimed at everyone whose cats go outdoors.
> 
> I know you feel very strongly on the subject, but it would be good if you could try and tone down your comments a bit more when posting on the thread of a new member. I don't think that is too much to ask of you.
> 
> That is all I want to say on the matter, as I do not want this thread to be hijacked into yet another indoor vs outdoor argument.


Agree chillminx. It is so easy for new posters to be scared off, never to be heard from again, (I've seen it happen more than once) by intimidating posts such as the one from L 4 L when all OP wants is a bit of advice from someone who may have been thro the same situation. She does not want to have the Riot Act read to her...who does??


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

torkid I am so sorry you are having problems like this.
As has been stated above, the only long term solution is to cat proof your garden so that your boy cannot escape it's confines. There are several companies that offer a complete service for cat proofing, or you can go the DIY route which is obviously cheaper.
it is a little of a compromise but should sort your problem full stop
Good Luck


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Sorry a couple of posts may seem out of place now but I have removed one post and the quote


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

chillminx said:


> @leashedForLife - the OP (Dani) is a new Forum Member and she does not know you of old like us 'older' members do. Dani may feel your post is a personal attack on her, which I am sure it is not, and is more likely to be one of your famous "rants" aimed at everyone whose cats go outdoors.
> 
> I know you feel very strongly on the subject, but it would be good if you could try and tone down your comments a bit more when posting on the thread of a new member. I don't think that is too much to ask of you.
> 
> ...


Completely agree. I saw the post early this morning. I hope OP hasn't been scared off.


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## torkid (May 10, 2015)

No not scared off, just been at work so I'm somewhat oblivious.
(I know some folk disagree on letting cats out but I feel even worse for taking that away now until I resolve the issue)
Both owners & cats have been here longer than we have! So I guess you could say Alfie is the new guy. He is an only cat.. & we keep him indoors from 5/6pm.
The only thing I can really think of is our next door neighbour has 3 cats, one of which (a large tom) used to sneak into our home & eat Alfies food & they'd have many a stand off ... Even through the patio doors!
We haven't seen him in a while, so I don't know if now he's gone, Alfie has decided to take over..
We are attempting to enforce a Rota system, though I think we need to revisit & replan. (& make sure one of them is actually doing it)
I have offered to pay for the vet treatment when they initially told us as we were shocked & of course felt horrible. (They refused)
Rehoming is out of the question, I wouldn't even entertain the idea. This was just a suggestion from one of said owners..
I was wondering if a referral to a cat behaviourist would be silly, as its not an issue at home? (I watch too much Jackson galaxy)
Alfie is a lovely, sweet cat asides from this, even our vet was surprised at how nice he was - despite his visit being for booster shots haha! 
I might give those supplements a bash, feliway doesn't seem to be doing much (albeit I'm not following him around outside to see if he's more chilled out but yknow)


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## torkid (May 10, 2015)

P.s sorry for the long posts. 
Cat proofing is definitely food for thought, it's just a case of figure it out & not disturbing the neighbours on either side of us (they can be pretty petty & unreasonable at the best of times..)


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@torkid - your posts are fine, not too long 

I think you could be right, the competition for territory started when the neighbour's male cat got into your house and stole Alfie's food. This must have made Alfie feel insecure in his own home, and may have made him very protective of his territory.

Do the neighbours cats come into your garden? If so this might be why Alfie goes after them, stalking them and attacking.

The roller system of escape-proof fencing is a good one and is likely to affect your neighbours less than a system that involves high fences with an inward sloping attachment at the top.

You could certainly consult a cat behaviourist, and indeed they are very useful people to consult when all else has been tried and failed. But in this specific instance, as Alfie's territorial behaviour is instinctive and not abnormal, just rather intense, I can't see there is much else a behaviourist could advise you to do, short of keeping Alfie indoors permanently. But don't let me put you off consulting a behaviourist if that is what you want to do. 

Some cats just do not like other cats at all, and nothing you can do will change their minds and _make_ them like other cats.


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## Gallifreyangirl (Feb 11, 2015)

Hope things settle and work out for him.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
- Installing cat-proof fencing is done in broad daylight, not during the wee small hours, so as long
as U don't schedule the installation for the day that both adjacent gardens host outdoor wedding
receptions or the local croquet tournament, U should be fine.
.
.
- My experience of rolling-bar fence toppers & cats is that it doesn't work. Dogs, yes - not cats.
.
.
- Cat-proof fencing to keep YOUR cat IN angles *into* Ur own garden, not outward over adjacent
gardens. Additionally, there are versions that are practically invisible. It's not as tho U're installing
12-foot concrete walls topped by razor-wire.
Their "view" - such as it is - will be virtually unaffected, except for visible thin support rods.
If they object even to the thin rods "ruining" their garden, i'd remind them gently this minor visual
intrusion prevents the invisible but pungent presence of cat-pee in their own gardens - at least, it
prevents pee from YOUR cat, which - as we all know - elicits pee from other cats.
.
.
- If being practically invisible is absolutely imperative, a 2 to 3-inch high "hot wire" run right along
the inside upper-edge of your side of the fence will zap Fluffy if he tries to climb out. Such a low-
level hot-wire can be powered by a solar trickle-charger, even in cloudy Britain, by adding charge
to the battery every time the sun peeks out.
Just be sure the solar-cell panel is well placed & not shaded by tree limbs, etc - U can always mount
it on the eaves, & run a longer wire, or mount 2 solar-panels at slightly different angles to take ad-
vantage of different angles of the sun, or mount 2 in different places. They're tiny.
.
.
.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

chillminx said:


> - the OP (Dani) is a new Forum Member, & does not know you of old, as us 'older' members do.
> Dani may feel your post is a personal attack on her, which I am sure it is not, and is more likely to be one of your famous "rants" aimed at everyone whose cats go outdoors.
> 
> I know you feel very strongly on the subject, but it would be good if you could try and tone down your comments a bit more when posting on the thread of a new member. I don't think that is too much to ask of you.
> ...


.
.
It's not a matter of new members or old members, Minx -
it's the frequent request for sympathy by cat-owners who are ignoring the obvious.
.
If Ur cat is missing because s/he roams at large, then U chose to let the cat out, & my sympathy is all
for the cat, not the owner. Besides, for all U know, the missing cat has simply moved house, & is living
full-time with someone s/he had been mooching from for weeks, months, or years.
.
If Ur cat has been, God forbid, hit by a car - again, my sympathy is all for the cat, & my anger is for the
owner. If the cat isn't killed but faces an expensive surgery, i frankly don't want to hear whining about
how costly all this is; if U'd kept the door closed, U'd have saved the bill AND the pain for Ur theoreti-
cally much-loved cat.
.
If Ur cat is beating the bejeezus out of neighbors' cats, i can't fathom why "keep the cat at home" is so
foreign a concept. Keeping Ur cat indoors is not durance vile or solitary confinement or hard labor for
the cat, & if he gets his kicks from ripping up other cats, then letting him out was making a stick to beat
Ur own back, & create bad feeling among neighbors, to boot.
.
If my young child was destroying neighbors' gardens for her or his pleasure, s/he wouldn't be going out
unsupervised, period. I wouldn't say, _"oh, Pat's too young to know better", _& expect my neighbors to
smilingly ignore the damage, & pat the destroyer's head. I'd apologize, offer to reimburse or replace the
plants, & keep the little wrecker at home, or under my direct gaze.
.
.
Claiming to feel guilty over keeping a feline troublemaker at home asks too much of the reader, IMO -
or at least, far too much of this reader; the neighbors have a perfectly legitimate complaint, & the cat
has no intrinsic "right" to roam at large, & by misbehaving, s/he has lost the privilege.
Note that this isn't to PUNISH the cat - it's to PREVENT problem behavior.
.
.
Installing cat-proof fences is not all that costly. They can even be self-installed if U have basic skills at
DIY, & that's a substantial savings of labor costs, which makes the fence more affordable.
.
.
As U already said, all the consulting in the world won't alter a cat's social or anti-social behavior toward
other cats in the neighborhood. Lying on a psychologist's couch isn't going to help. Giving Prozac won't
help, either. Keeping a problematic cat on their owner's property is simple, not cruel, & not costly.
It's practical, & it works.
I don't know why it's so tortured a prospect; wringing one's hands over it seems excessive to me.
_._
_._
_._


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say LFL, it is difficult to turn a free roaming cat into a cat with restricted boundaries. I'd be interested to hear from people who have previously had a roamer who then adapted to a cat enclosed in a garden with escape proof stuff - was it successful?
In the UK it is pretty much 'the norm' to have free roaming cats and that isn't going to change any time soon, the majority of cat owners here consider it unfair to restrict a cat.
Perhaps someone / somehow we need raise awareness of the choices of cat proofing to people know these are an option.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Do you own a cat, LFL?


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

It's not difficult to keep a cat contained, it just takes a bit of effort on the part of the owner, something which a lot of cat owners are unwilling to do IME.
You need to make the yard more attractive than anywhere else and secure it.

Your pet is causing a nuisance to others and putting itself in danger in the process, it won't just go away. 

One day it will pick the wrong garden :/


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

shamykebab said:


> .
> Do you own a cat, LFL?
> .


.
.
At the moment? - no - i live in a shared townhouse, & do live-in PCA shifts. I could hardly adopt or
buy a cat, & then ask my housemate to care for her or him! *Do i know cats? - *yes. Have i lived
with cats? - yes. There were cats in our family home before i was born. My sire bred Siamese, the
classic applehead type. Our dam & daughter queens saw me thru childhood & into young adulthood,
dying at 19 & 21, respectively.
my 1st pet [age 4] was a Rhode Island Red hen; my 2nd [age 7] was a kitten, who'd been dumped
at our farm - a tiny grey Maltese female, maybe 7-WO.
.
The various 'farm cats', our own & a constant string of strays cadging meals or attracted by estrus,
lived outdoors, & despite my pleas over the years, were never desexed. - at least, not by my parents.
If any were desexed, they were done before they arrived.
.
Also, Ouesi, i can speak with authority - any cat who's a "good hunter" kills over 10-X as many non-
target species as they do any undesired rodents.
Our farm-cats killed adult & infant rabbits, pheasant chicks, bobwhite, snakes, salamanders, crawfish,
minnows, adult songbirds, fledglings, nestlings, they punctured eggs of any species including turtles,
they killed butterflies, bees, moths, katydids, cicadas, frogs & toads, tadpoles, grasshoppers, & any-
thing else that flew, crawled, walked, swam, or brachiated thru trees, so long as it was smaller than
their whole bodies.
Having watched them at it & taken many a punctured, screaming bunny from their jaws over 20-odd
years, after they'd broken its leg & were toying with it, i have no illusions about cats & their predatory
behavior, or their skills.
.
.
So yes, Shamy - i'm very familiar with cats & their behavior, i've had a succession of cats over my half-
century of life, & been consulted by various clients who had complaints about problem behaviors.
.
.
Any other questions, Shamy? 
.
.
.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> At the moment? - no - i live in a shared townhouse, & do live-in PCA shifts. I could hardly adopt or
> buy a cat, & then ask my housemate to care for her or him! *Do i know cats? - *yes. Have i lived
> ...


At the moment, no; but many thanks for your ever so comprehensive, albeit rather defensive, reply.


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## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

torkid said:


> Both owners & cats have been here longer than we have! So I guess you could say Alfie is the new guy. He is an only cat.. & we keep him indoors from 5/6pm.
> The only thing I can really think of is our next door neighbour has 3 cats, one of which (a large tom) used to sneak into our home & eat Alfies food & they'd have many a stand off ... Even through the patio doors!
> We haven't seen him in a while, so I don't know if now he's gone, Alfie has decided to take over..
> We are attempting to enforce a Rota system, though I think we need to revisit & replan. (& make sure one of them is actually doing it)
> ...


Bless you for considering all of those options! You're clearly a compassionate kitty carer.

I wonder if now that the white tom is gone, there's been something of a power void that your boy is trying to fill. I've read that previously established patterns of dominance and territory amongst groups of cats can be disrupted if a dominant member of the group is removed. Maybe that's what has happened here.

I understand how hard it is to want to do what's best for your cat - irrespective of what LFL proposes, some cats are just NOT designed to be indoor cats. Mine were under house arrest for over 2 months when we moved and my god they were depressed, irritable, obnoxious, had increased levels of violence and destructive behaviour and actually went off their food. Now that they're allowed out (daylight only) they're so much happier, content and playful. Never feel guilty for doing what you know is the right thing for your cat's happiness.

Maybe cat proofing will work (we thought about it in our place as I do worry about them when they're out and about, but we are in rented and have concrete fence posts - vile things) In the mean time, the rota sounds like a great idea. Maybe in time, with some Zyclene and some time to allow the other cats to establish their territories he may learn that he doesn't own the world - which lets be honest, most cats think they do!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

shamykebab said:


> ATM, no;
> but many thanks for your ever so comprehensive, albeit *rather defensive*, reply.
> .
> .


.
.
Sorry if it seemed like overkill, but i've worked with other ppl's pets for over 40-years,
& there's another ever-so-innocent sounding Q i've heard countless times that leads to
disastrous ends, & strongly resembles Ur Q:
*"Have U ever owned a ____ [insert breed of choice] ____ ?"*

I get really, really tired of being told by pet-owners, often novice owners, that because
i've never LIVED with my very own Lithuanian Low-slung Low-brow Linnet-hound,
i cannot possibly *know anything* about the secret heart & deeply instinctive behaviors
of the LLLL - or whatever breed - of their darling dog.
.
After U answer that the 1st million times, U get pretty tired of it, & discover that simply
disgorging practically Ur life-history with dogs is the only way to cork the *"...yes, but..." *
protests.  Otherwise, it just continues as a monologue.
.
.
.


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## torkid (May 10, 2015)

chillminx said:


> @torkid - your posts are fine, not too long
> 
> I think you could be right, the competition for territory started when the neighbour's male cat got into your house and stole Alfie's food. This must have made Alfie feel insecure in his own home, and may have made him very protective of his territory.
> 
> ...


Neighbour 1's cat has never ventured into our garden, hence why I don't get why he's stalking her.
Neighbour 2's cat however does venture into our garden, turns out he also doesn't have a catflap so cat is out from the morning til whenever he get's home from work (though I've seen her out as late as 11pm) So no wonder the rota wasn't working out..

We're gonna have a meeting with them both tonight/ tomorrow just so we can try work something out again, fingers crossed we'll make some progress! 
In the meantime I'll keep perusing the cat proofing thread.
I figured it'd be worth asking about the behaviourist, though I agree, I don't see them being able to suggest much for his outside ventures!! Plus when I put xyz together I guess it's starting to make some sort of sense.
We've also had the suggestion of socializing them, taking Alfie over to neighbours 1 & 2 in his carrier/on harness & see if that'll get them used to each other but I smell disaster on that part...


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

moggie14 said:


> ... it's difficult to turn a free-roaming cat into a cat with restricted boundaries.
> 
> I'd be interested to hear from people who've previously had a roamer, who then adapted to [become]
> a cat enclosed in a garden with escape proof stuff - was it successful?
> ...


.
.
I'm not a cat-specialist. I'm a cat-generalist.
.

But i took a feral kitten at 12-WO from a restaurant parking-lot, & turned her into an indoor-only cat.
I spent a lot of time trilling & chirping like a queen, as human voices scared her, at 1st, but Jezebel
went on to become a sweet, affectionate pet, & was cautiously friendly with cat-savvy visitors.
.
If i can do it, i'd think 2/3 of PF-uk's highly-experienced cat owners & breeders could do similar.
Especially if they begin with a pet cat --- not a spook.
.
Adding ACTIVE PLAY is key - too many cat-owners say, "my cat never plays!".... And when i ask,
"What toys have U tried?", they look at me as if i'm speaking Greek, suddenly. Maybe they own one
2-YO felt mouse, stuffed with stale catnip --- ooh, that's exciting. ::EyeRoll::
PLAY WITH Ur cat.
.
. It's key, IMO & IME.
.
.
.


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## torkid (May 10, 2015)

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> - Installing cat-proof fencing is done in broad daylight, not during the wee small hours, so as long
> as U don't schedule the installation for the day that both adjacent gardens host outdoor wedding
> ...


It's not the matter of when we build it, it's actually building it that is my concern, one of said neighbours repeatedly took us to court over extending our house despite having the correct paperwork & planning permission, heck we didn't even cross the property line. He's just that kind of guy, so it's figuring out a way to do so without creating more drama. I'll probably also give the electric fence a miss, asides from being a little harsh if one his kids get a shock we'll never hear the end of it!

P.s not looking for sympathy just advice so I can resolve this & hopefully have a happy cat.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

torkid said:


> Neighbour 1's cat has never ventured into our garden, hence why I don't get why he's stalking her.
> Neighbour 2's cat however does venture into our garden, turns out he also doesn't have a catflap so cat is out from the morning til whenever he get's home from work (though I've seen her out as late as 11pm) So no wonder the rota wasn't working out..
> 
> We're gonna have a meeting with them both tonight/ tomorrow just so we can try work something out again, fingers crossed we'll make some progress!
> ...


It's great you're going to get together with the neighbours and try and negotiate a rota. 

In the current circumstances I think it very unwise for Neighbour 2 to leave their cat out all day long. It means the cat will be hanging around in your garden, quite possibly looking for a way to get into your house for comfort.No wonder your cat is upset! Most domestic cats do not like being left outside all day long, they like having the option to pop out and then go back indoors to the safety and comfort of their home, for a snooze.

If I couldn't have a cat flap on my door for some reason I'd let my cat out in the morning for an hour whilst I was getting breakfast etc, then call her in for her brekkie, and then leave her shut in the house all day. Cats sleep a good part of the day anyway. When I got home from work I would let the cat out for a few hours, then back indoors overnight. At weekends she would have longer periods out doors.

As you say, no wonder the rota wasn't working!

If Neighbour 2 installed a microchip cat flap at least his cat could get back indoors. Plus if he set the mechanism to "in only" the cat would not be able to get back out again until he got home and let her out. 

I think the time has passed for being able to try and socialize Alfie with the neighbours cats, though it certainly might have helped in the early days, when you first got him.

The problem now is that Alfie has a very negative view of the neighbours' cats, and vice versa no doubt, and sadly that is not going to change with just one or two get-together with Alfie on a harness or in a carrier. But weeks of gradual exposure through controlled meetings between Alfie and one cat at a time, on neutral territory, [e.g. not your home or the neighbours homes], and without the cats having any contact with each other outside whilst the gradual exposure is going on, might possibly be a help. But even then there is no guarantee anything will change.

Having been through a similar situation myself I honestly feel the rota system is the safest bet, as long as there is give and take from everyone, not just you doing all the giving. And then perhaps a long-term view to catproof the garden, if it is feasible.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

torkid said:


> It's not the matter of when we build it, it's actually building it that is my concern, one of said neighbours repeatedly took us to court over extending our house despite having the correct paperwork & planning permission, heck we didn't even cross the property line. He's just that kind of guy, so it's figuring out a way to do so without creating more drama. I'll probably also give the electric fence a miss, asides from being a little harsh if one his kids get a shock we'll never hear the end of it!
> 
> P.s not looking for sympathy just advice so I can resolve this & hopefully have a happy cat.


Oh crikey, there is history of ill-will from one of the neighbours! Repeatedly taking you to court over your house extension sounds a little heavy!! I do hope he will be more co-operative over this situation, for the sake of his cat and yours. I agree with you about giving the electric fence a miss though!

Good Luck. Let us know how things go.


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## Code (Sep 18, 2014)

What Chillminx said. You all need to adopt a fixed rota. Isn't there a perimeter wire option (I think you bury it around the perimeter) that just gives the cat a static electricity zap? That doesn't sound too bad. I guess the only problem would be if he gets over it he might be too scared to come back. It's quite normal in the UK to have outdoor cats. I think I'm the only house in the street that keeps them indoors and to be honest I don't think they're that happy being confined.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Zylkene increases confidence. Recommending it for an already overconfident cat is likely to make the situation much worse, not better!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

carly87 said:


> Zylkene increases confidence. Recommending it for an already overconfident cat is likely to make the situation much worse, not better!


I think it can do in some cases, but when my cat was instigating vicious fights with the neighbour's cats my cat was very stressed over ownership of territory. I knew this was the case because he began spraying indoors, (strange cats can't get in my house as I have a microchip cat flap).

I put my cat on Zylkene to try and calm him down and it really did help. The spraying stopped and neither he nor the neighbours cats have had any nasty injuries since. This is why I mentioned it to the OP as worth considering.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

moggie14 said:


> Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say LFL, it is difficult to turn a free roaming cat into a cat with restricted boundaries. I'd be interested to hear from people who have previously had a roamer who then adapted to a cat enclosed in a garden with escape proof stuff - was it successful?.


Not me, but my sisters 6 cats went from outdoors to an enclosed yard without any issues. The oldest who were 6-9 years had never been restricted before that and had no issues with their new enclosed area. Took her losing several cats before she decided to be a responsible owner and keep them on the property.

Outdoor cats were the norm over here years ago, now people are more educated and often keep them indoors or contained.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I take the point, CM, but this little lad isn't showing any signs of distress at home at all!


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## torkid (May 10, 2015)

Erenya said:


> Bless you for considering all of those options! You're clearly a compassionate kitty carer.
> 
> I wonder if now that the white tom is gone, there's been something of a power void that your boy is trying to fill. I've read that previously established patterns of dominance and territory amongst groups of cats can be disrupted if a dominant member of the group is removed. Maybe that's what has happened here.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words toots, 
Alfie has only been indoors just over a week & you can see the difference in his behaviour, meowing/yowling the house down all day then retreating to his carrier to sleep, thankfully he's not gotten aggressive but you can tell he's not happy in the slightest. He's not as sociable either but I suspect he's just in a huff with us. 
We're still considering cat proofing if all else fails, I couldn't imagine taking away his freedom entirely! 
Ordered some Zyclene so we'll give that a try & until then we're working on a rota & a few other things so hopefully we can restore normality.. or atleast work in some sort of harmony.
He he true that! He already thinks he owns the house!


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## torkid (May 10, 2015)

chillminx said:


> It's great you're going to get together with the neighbours and try and negotiate a rota.
> 
> In the current circumstances I think it very unwise for Neighbour 2 to leave their cat out all day long. It means the cat will be hanging around in your garden, quite possibly looking for a way to get into your house for comfort.No wonder your cat is upset! Most domestic cats do not like being left outside all day long, they like having the option to pop out and then go back indoors to the safety and comfort of their home, for a snooze.
> 
> ...


My exact thoughts (albeit I understand installing a catflap can be expensive depending on the type of door) 
We haven't established a proper rota yet, though the last few days we've been able to agree on Neighbour 2's cat being in from 4pm & Alfie getting out for a few hours (I'd rather vice versa but it'll do for now, he's happy to have outdoor ventures again & doesn't stay out too late) Baby steps but atleast we're getting somewhere!
We've swapped toys & hope maybe they'll get used to the scent of each other/ feel a little less threatened, then as you said working up to controlled meetings, Might not work but worth a shot! We've ordered Zyclene so will give that a bash too, see if it makes a difference & keeping catproofing in mind if all else fails.

(I don't mention Neighbour 1 much, though there's not much to report, they've owned cat's for a long time, so have some comprehension & all the patience! They've been great)
I'm feeling alot more positive about this than I did last week & it's been mega helpful finding this forum. Thanks folks


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@torkid - very pleased to hear there has been progress with the rota!  Glad that Alfie is able to go out again; some cats are just not cut out to be indoor cats.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> Sorry if it seemed like overkill, but i've worked with other ppl's pets for over 40-years,
> & there's another ever-so-innocent sounding Q i've heard countless times that leads to
> ...


So what is so different from your replies, then???

Whatever anyone else has to say, you will reply: BUT..... with the only option being keeping cats confined.
You are just as intolerant of anyone not sharing your opinion as you accuse others to be of not sharing yours.

Your opinion is just that, YOUR opinion, not some sacrosanct truth to preach to al and sundry. As long as the law allows free roaming cats, there may be a problem between conflicting views, but your attitude is not going to help anyone in any way.

Being loud and offensive does not make you right.


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## Boluna (Aug 21, 2013)

I wonder at the motivation of someone who does not currently have any cats but regularly posts on a cat forum. Particularly if they have strong views on how they should be kept, which they know people may disagree with. It's not like cat owners have never heard of the option of keeping a cat inside.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Boluna said:


> I wonder at the motivation of someone who does not currently have any cats but regularly posts on a cat forum. Particularly if they have strong views on how they should be kept, which they know people may disagree with. It's not like cat owners have never heard of the option of keeping a cat inside.


Not just having strong views, but almost exclusively posting on the cat forums in order to ventilate these strong views in a rather aggressive manner. Looks to me like someone is on a crusade here. Donkeys, Spanish plains and windmills spring to mind...


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## torkid (May 10, 2015)

Update!
We have success!
No fights, no drama & no angry neighbours!

We're on a strict rota & things are back to normal!
Alfie gets out 1st thing in the morning, back for 10am.
Indoors for most of the day.
Back out from 6pm & usually back for 9pm.
(Contact kept if he ain't home on time)
Neighbour 2 finally got a cat flap making said Rota effective.
Alfie is all the more happy to have his freedom back!

Tried the zylkene & didn't see a vast difference so didn't order more once we finished the box. (That being said, re-reading y'all did say it was gradual.. So maybe we should've kept it up a little longer?)
Any attempt at socializing was short lived! (Alfie gets spooked by strangers so as soon as a jogger/noisy child/general passer by came near he was off like a bullet! Way too stressful!)
But in the end it's worked out! So I really can't complain 

Y'all have been great & I don't think we would've made such progress had I not found this forum!
Thanks folks!


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## SaraCat (Jul 4, 2015)

I'm happy to read that the situation is better and thank you all for posting on this thread, it's been very instructive.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@torkid - very pleased to hear things have worked out so well! Brilliant! Well done for negotiating so well with the neighbours


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