# Scottish Fold or SF Munchkin



## [email protected]_cat_lady (Feb 13, 2011)

Hello!

I am looking for a Scottish Fold or Scottish Fold Munchkin cat - without much sucess 

Does anyone have any idea where I could find one?

Thank you! 

Sam


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## rcmadd (Feb 6, 2011)

a lady called janette fitzpatric in yorkshire breeds folds....

she also does raggys.. goes by the prefix of emerilse..

try here....Emerisle Cats Website


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

There're rare in the UK for good reasons!


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

> The Scottish Fold has a mutation that affects its cartilage, most obviously making the ear cartilage fold so the ears bend forward and down towards the front of its head. The mutation results from a simple dominant gene. If one parent provides the gene for straight ears, and one parent provides the gene for folded ears, the kittens will be Folds. Unfortunately, *all *Fold cats suffer from variable degrees of *painful *degenerative joint disease, which results in fusing of the tail, ankles and knees, and can be seen clinically as lameness, reluctance to jump, a stiff stilted gait, short misshapen distal limbs, swelling of plantar tarsometatarsal regions and short thick inflexible tails. While kittens with only one Fold parent have a milder form of the condition, kittens with two Fold parents are severely affected. This is the reason that the breed is not accepted by the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy (in UK) and the Fédération Internationale Féline.


Inherited disorders in cats - SCOTTISH FOLD


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

I know a fold breeder in Scotland but do not agree with them being bred.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

alisondalziel said:


> I know a fold breeder in Scotland but do not agree with them being bred.


Where or maybe a should say when, there's demand and money involved with animals, there will be breeders 

Regardless of the animals welfare


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## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

why would anyone want to breed or buy a cat like that


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

What did you pick the two worst breeds? Guess you could have gone for a bambino would have been worse


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

I think folds are actually very very cute!!

They are unique and different and not everyone knows about the above mentioned issues.

Ignorance is often bliss!!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> What did you pick the two worst breeds? Guess you could have gone for a bambino would have been worse


A "bambino" I don't think I want to know :frown2:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Sphynx/munchkin cross


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> Sphynx/munchkin cross


I just DON'T want to begin imagining THAT 

What is wrong with some people, are they so blinded by greed they fail to see animal suffering :mad2:

Thank you for letting me know.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

You really don't. They're horrible looking poor little things


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> You really don't. They're horrible looking poor little things


Poor little souls


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I can't see any reason to breed two of the most deformed breeds, no offence any sphynx lovers, other than money


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

alisondalziel said:


> I think folds are actually very very cute!!
> 
> They are unique and different and not everyone knows about the above mentioned issues.
> 
> Ignorance is often bliss!!


They do look cute, unfortunately, but whilst the research states that ALL Folds are in pain to some degree I'm afraid I just don't condone the breed's existence at all!!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

messyhearts said:


> They do look cute, unfortunately, but whilst the research states that ALL Folds are in pain to some degree I'm afraid I just don't condone the breed's existence at all!!


That is so sad and it begs the question why anyone would not only breed a cat to suffer like this, but who would want to buy one :frown2:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Breeders for money, public buying them because they're so cute with the round heads and big eyes.


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## BSH (Jul 28, 2010)

I blame Norton!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

i dont think their cute they look like aliens  not nice at all.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I think the scottish folds are adorable. I would have one if they weren't so unhealthy


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> I think the scottish folds are adorable. I would have one if they weren't so unhealthy


Yes, at the end of the day our cat's health is the most important thing :thumbup:

If we don't buy these poor cats, there will be no demand!


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## TatiLie (Nov 2, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> What did you pick the two worst breeds? Guess you could have gone for a bambino would have been worse


I've googled 'bambino cat' and I regretted.
It's a pity I can't wash that image off my eyes!


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Goodness, i had no idea Scottish folds were so unhealthy. I had read somewhere that it was a naturally-forming mutation, but nothing about the health issues :scared: I was even thinking of getting myself one at some stage. Just goes to show, one should really do through research into breeds before going ahead with anything. And Munchkins? I always thought they must be a bit "off" healthwise, because of how they look, but it seems to be a popular "breed", "TICA-registered" and breeder websites insist that there are no serious health issues. :confused1::confused1:


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## mrswoodwoose (Jan 23, 2011)

Why? Please read all the posts again...

There are THOUSANDS of perfectly good looking healthy cats out down every year as they cannot find forever homes, please consider visiting a rescue/re-homing centre, talk to staff and walk around, surely at least one cat somewhere will touch your heart? You may be pleasantly surprised.


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## mrswoodwoose (Jan 23, 2011)

mrswoodwoose said:


> There are THOUSANDS of perfectly good looking healthy cats out down every year


Sorry, typo, meant to say "put down every year"


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## travisestes (May 2, 2012)

Your closest breeder is going to be YellowBrickFold.com

they deliver and have some pretty cute cats. Hope that helps


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## travisestes (May 2, 2012)

mrswoodwoose said:


> Why? Please read all the posts again...
> 
> There are THOUSANDS of perfectly good looking healthy cats out down every year as they cannot find forever homes, please consider visiting a rescue/re-homing centre, talk to staff and walk around, surely at least one cat somewhere will touch your heart? You may be pleasantly surprised.


Sorry, but most purpose bred cats are usually superior to shelter cats. There exists great cats in the shelter, but bred cats are almost always awesome. It's not the fault of people who buy from responsible breeders that cats get put down in shelters. That is the fault of people not getting their pets spay/neutered.

I understand where your coming from, but there is no causality between the two issues, so don't try to make it out like there is.


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## travisestes (May 2, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> Goodness, i had no idea Scottish folds were so unhealthy. I had read somewhere that it was a naturally-forming mutation, but nothing about the health issues :scared: I was even thinking of getting myself one at some stage. Just goes to show, one should really do through research into breeds before going ahead with anything. And Munchkins? I always thought they must be a bit "off" healthwise, because of how they look, but it seems to be a popular "breed", "TICA-registered" and breeder websites insist that there are no serious health issues. :confused1::confused1:


If you buy from a reputable breeder health issues will not be an issue, they are overblown anyway. As an owner of both a munchkin, and a scottish fold, I can attest to their health.


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## travisestes (May 2, 2012)

Nicky10 said:


> I think the scottish folds are adorable. I would have one if they weren't so unhealthy


False: they are extremely healthy.

You are propagating misinformation my friend


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

travisestes said:


> False: they are extremely healthy.
> 
> You are propagating misinformation my friend


Surely if they were so healthy, the GCCF would be recognising the breed?


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

travisestes said:


> If you buy from a reputable breeder health issues will not be an issue, they are overblown anyway. As an owner of both a munchkin, and a scottish fold, I can attest to their health.


So, you've got both a Scottish Fold and a Munchkin? That's a coincidence, isn't it?? Why would you want a cat that can't jump properly anyway? The beauty of cats is their grace and elegance, why would you find short legs in a cat attractive? What's the point of that?



travisestes said:


> Sorry, but most purpose bred cats are usually superior to shelter cats. There exists great cats in the shelter, but bred cats are almost always awesome. It's not the fault of people who buy from responsible breeders that cats get put down in shelters. That is the fault of people not getting their pets spay/neutered.
> 
> I understand where your coming from, but there is no causality between the two issues, so don't try to make it out like there is.


Are you just looking for a reaction here? "Purpose-bred" cats are superior in what way? For the most part it is just a difference in coat colour, body type or face shape that determines a breed. Cats are cats underneath! A bred cat that has inherited illness thanks to it being aggressively bred "to type" cannot in any way be described as "awesome". Ask any of the Maine Coon, Norwegian Forest and Bengal breeders on here the lengths they have to go through to make sure their litters are healthy; the genetic screening, the health testing they have to do to try and undo all the damage that has been done to these breeds over the years. No, there's nothing wrong in buying a pedigree cat from a reputable breeder, but actively encouraging the breeding of cats with traits that to make them look "cute" but are engineered to suffer lifelong misery or handicap is just plain wrong!


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

travisestes said:


> If you buy from a reputable breeder health issues will not be an issue, they are overblown anyway. As an owner of both a munchkin, and a scottish fold, I can attest to their health.


So we should ignore the scientific documentation on how this deformity affects the cats? Even if some folds are healthy and aren't in any pain the breeding of these cats always will produce cats that will suffer due to the very deformity that cause the adorable folded ears because no one knows how to control the expression of the gene (genes?) causing osteochondrodysplasia.

It doesn't matter how cute the cats are. If the very "cuteness trait" causes pain in some of the cats, there's no excuse breeding for it.


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## kerrypn (Jul 25, 2011)

@travis
I have owned both a pedigree cat and a moggy cat. Whilst my dear Bengal Lana was unmatched in beauty, I have to admit that Einstein, my little moggy cat is of unrivalled temperement and was defintely the superior of the 2 cats in that respect. He may not have the refined and distinctive features Lana had but because he is spoiled and well cared for, he has a gorgeous glossy black coat, which is lovely in his own way.
I dont think you can be a true lover of cats to make such a comment.

I cannot really comment on the breeds being discussed as i know nothing of either-but to think of poor cats being bred into inevitable pain


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Coming from a position of complete ignorance on these particular breeds, can someone advise how mobile both the Munchkin and Bambino breeds actually are? 

Cats are known for their agility and grace, I wonder how much of this has been retained when the cat appears to have had its legs literally bred out from under it.


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

Aurelie said:


> Coming from a position of complete ignorance on these particular breeds, can someone advise how mobile both the Munchkin and Bambino breeds actually are?
> 
> Cats are known for their agility and grace, I wonder how much of this has been retained when the cat appears to have had its legs literally bred out from under it.


Joanna Lumley did a couple of programmes a couple of years ago called "cat woman". She visited a woman in the US who had Munchkins. They couldn't jump. Ms Lumley came away a little non-plussed and upset, as was I on watching it. Cats are supposed to jump and run and be elegant. That's what cats do and what cats are. I don't understand why anyone would want them otherwise


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Misi said:


> Joanna Lumley did a couple of programmes a couple of years ago called "cat woman". She visited a woman in the US who had Munchkins. They couldn't jump. Ms Lumley came away a little non-plussed and upset, as was I on watching it. Cats are supposed to jump and run and be elegant. That's what cats do and what cats are. I don't understand why anyone would want them otherwise


That's sad, it's shameful that someone, somewhere has essentially immobilised cats and called that deformation a new breed.


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## Tchai (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi there

I was really interested in reading your comments, I never knew this poor cats had so many problems 

I will definately not be getting one (unless a rescue one needs a home) I won't encourage the breeding of them.

Thank you for educating me (and hopefully alot more people).

Regards 

Tchai x x


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## flosskins (Jan 27, 2010)

That is really interesting, it's not a breed I knew anything about but it's dreadful if they are being bred and they do have joint problems like that. It sounds like ignorance is the issue as people that are concerned with welfare are less likely to buy them once informed.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

As an owner of a Scottish Fold, I can honestly say that my 4 year old hasn't got any health issues. His mother is now 8 years old and doing fine too, never had any breed related health issues. They can climb and jump just like my Brits. When I was about to get my foldie, someone got mad at me and claimed (on a public forum) that they only live to be four, if you're lucky, usually they die much earlier. She was in US and said she had learned that info from a TV-show...:glare:

I'm not saying all of them are healthy, definitely not, but if bred correctly and IMO Fold x BSH in every mating, the risks of the kittens being sick with something/anything are on the same level as with any other breed or a moggie.

I have no personal experiences of Munchkins, but that is where I draw the line. I do not like the idea at all if the cats can't move like a cat with normal legs would.
When it comes to breeds like these, I would advice to always use a reputable breeder, do not even consider a non-papered one!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

alisondalziel said:


> I think folds are actually very very cute!!
> They are unique and different and not everyone knows about the above mentioned issues.
> Ignorance is often bliss!!


For the owner, yes, but not for the poor cat.

I know of a cat with this disease, she was PTS because even with constant painkillers, her pain became unbearable. The poor thing must have had the gene from both sides. Back Yard Breeder, no doubt, but still, to have a young cat PTS because of a deliberitely bred genetic malformation is too cruel for words.

I think it should be absolutely forbidden to breed from cats with the fold gene, however cute they look. There is always the chance of a spontaneous mutation in the ovum or sperm of the non-fold cat, so a kitten might still have a fold gene from both sides. And even with just the single gene, the condition can be really painful.

As for munchkins, they are a deformity.
It is the feline equivalent of dwarfism.










Would you like to have a baby like this??
If not, why pay money to get a cat with a similar physical deformity?


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Cerridwen said:


> So we should ignore the scientific documentation on how this deformity affects the cats? Even if some folds are healthy and aren't in any pain the breeding of these cats always will produce cats that will suffer due to the very deformity that cause the adorable folded ears because no one knows how to control the expression of the gene (genes?) causing osteochondrodysplasia.
> 
> It doesn't matter how cute the cats are. If the very "cuteness trait" causes pain in some of the cats, there's no excuse breeding for it.


Which is why breeding folds should be forbidden.
People who are prepared to even run the calculated risk of breeding cats that will be suffering are committing animal abuse.


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