# Someone wanting to breed from pet cats



## sarah123456789 (Mar 12, 2009)

I just had a phone call from some one wanting two of my girl kittens for breeding with their two bengal boys and they askd if they were £350 and I said no £950 for breeding and they were totally confused and said well it wouldnt be a bussiness just something to do in the future and i said you will still be breeding from my cats and my line so you have to pay for what your getting and they just said 'oh ok ill have to ring you back'. 
I wont let them go to them now even if they turn around and say 'oh well we will just have them as pets then' because they will obviasly breed from them anyway, these people havent even researched the price of breeding cats so I doubt they know any information that they need to know, or how much it actually costs to breed, also their kittens would not be registered or anything. They have 2 boys at the moment that they want to breed from, obviasly baught as pets, makes me a bit mad that theres people like that who just want to do it as cheap as they can (breeding from pet cats) when theres people like me and many other people on here that spend alot of money for their breeding cats and alot of money to breed the proper way. Tut


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I feel the same


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Can I ask why you are charging nearly 3 x your pet price for a breeding girl? They don't cost anymore to raise than a pet quality kitten? If £350 covers the cost of raising a kitten then surely an additional £600 is just pure profit and takes you out of the "hobby breeder" bracket into running a business  just my opinion.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Can I ask why you are charging nearly 3 x your pet price for a breeding girl? They don't cost anymore to raise than a pet quality kitten? If £350 covers the cost of raising a kitten then surely an additional £600 is just pure profit and takes you out of the "hobby breeder" bracket into running a business  just my opinion.


I charge more for breeding queens - for the simple reason it rules out people who are serious about breeding.
This post is a typical example. I have had so many phone calls like this


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I disagree, and it doesn't stop that person breeding from the kitten. The next breeder they go to, they just say they want them for pet. If someone comes to a breeder for an active cat then its the breeders duty to make the understand the dedication that goes into the whole process and to ensure that person is serious about it for the benefit of the cat - not the breeders pocket. Charging more won't do that at all.

I strongly disagree with breeders charging more for active cats and referring themselves as hobby breeders. There are extenuating circumstances for charging SLIGHTLY more like if you have imported a cat from abroad and they are lines that you can not get in the UK at all, then the new owner is benefiting from your additional outlay. Or maybe if you had a line you had created over decades of all your own breeding.

Had another thought, charging more for actives encourages the unscrupulous for an initial outlay they too can profit from selling actives. Once that kitten leaves your household what the owner does with his/her offspring is there business, every single kitten could be sold for breeding at a premium to like minded people who see ££££


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Saikou said:


> it doesn't stop that person breeding from the kitten


true - but it stops them being able to charge full price if the kitten is on the non-active register. So may make them think twice about what they are doing.
I paid an extra £250 for my queens on top of pet price


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I can't believe you charge such a difference for a breeding cat. I know some do cost more etc, but seriously, that is just taking the p|$$ but more for the people who are actually willing to spend that much and line your pockets.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> I can't believe you charge such a difference for a breeding cat. I know some do cost more etc, but seriously, that is just taking the p|$$ but more for the people who are actually willing to spend that much and line your pockets.


Think what u like

I am not gonna post on this thread now if everyone is going to start attacking


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> true - but it stops them being able to charge full price if the kitten is on the non-active register. So may make them think twice about what they are doing.


How  It just makes them think they too can make money.

I have never paid a premium for any breeding girl and I have bought from long standing breeders who would be considered "top breeders" (although I hate that phrase). Nor would I charge more for an active kitten.

If people want to charge more then fine, but stop hiding behind the "hobby breeder" label, keep accounts and start paying tax on the profits.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Saikou said:


> If people want to charge more then fine, but stop hiding behind the "hobby breeder" label, keep accounts and start paying tax on the profits.


I DO keep accounts - unlike a lot of breeders. The Inland Revenue dont see breeding as a "hobby" no matter who is doing it!
I am a qualified accountant and keep my accounts properly thankyou


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I agree with you, Saikou, I never have charged more for breeding cats and never will. I have paid more for breeding cats (but never double!). It seems to me that if you charge more for breeding cats, you have of course the absolute right to do so, but you need to accept that you are giving the buyer every excuse to breed unregistered. Personally I love it when people want to breed from my cats (as long as they are prepared to do it properly - I have had one unfortunate experience where someone is breeding unregistered cats from a boy she bought from me as a pet) - I regard it as a compliment.

Liz


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Also whenever i have bought up the subject of "Accounts" and "Inland Revenue" everyone seems to ignore it - I wonder why that might be??


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Think what u like
> 
> I am not gonna post on this thread now if everyone is going to start attacking


I am not attacking no body thank you. But I would in no way ever consider paying £600 above pet price for a cat, no matter how good it was. A cat is a cat. Alot of these people who charge a silly sum haven't even been breeding long, don't show and claim they have the best cats, from the best lines. etc etc... it really does annoy me. This is NOT directed at the opening poster before people say so, only the £600 bit, I don't know whether the OP shows etc.. that is all!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> I DO keep accounts - unlike a lot of breeders. The Inland Revenue dont see breeding as a "hobby" no matter who is doing it!
> I am a qualified accountant and keep my accounts properly thankyou


  Good for you. Will you be submitting a tax return for any profit then ?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> I am not attacking no body thank you. But I would in no way ever consider paying £600 above pet price for a cat, no matter how good it was. A cat is a cat. Alot of these people who charge a silly sum haven't even been breeding long, don't show and claim they have the best cats, from the best lines. etc etc... it really does annoy me. This is NOT directed at the opening poster before people say so, only the £600 bit, I don't know whether the OP shows etc.. that is all!


I never said I charge £600 over the pet price  And wouldnt - but i understand to a certain extent why its done.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Good for you. Will you be submitting a tax return for any profit then ?


Of course - although there is no profit yet! But you have to submit 5 years worth of accounts with a continual loss making anyway


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

The OP is charging an additional £600 for an active girl.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> I never said I charge £600 over the pet price  And wouldnt - but i understand to a certain extent why its done.


and I never said you did charge £600 extra, the OP does!!!!!!!!!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Of course - although there is no profit yet! But you have to submit 5 years worth of accounts with a continual loss making anyway


   Ok so you may do, but how many don't!! All hiding behind being a "hobby breeder" ?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Saikou said:


> The OP is charging an additional £600 for an active girl.





Biawhiska said:


> and I never said you did charge £600 extra, the OP does!!!!!!!!!


Either way whoever is doing it - i understand why they do. I personally dont charge that much - but everyone has their reasons.
I almost paid £1000 for a bengal girl, and nearly £2000 for an Australian Mist.
But I didnt have those breeds in the end - but I was willing to pay it for the right lines etc


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Ok so you may do, but how many don't!! All hiding behind being a "hobby breeder" ?


Very true Saiks - and it does make me cross. They think the term "Hobby breeder" exempts them from taxes.
If Only!!!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Just because you were prepared to pay silly money for a kitten doesn't make it right!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I assume you mean Australian mist, Saffron? 

Liz


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Just because you were prepared to pay silly money for a kitten doesn't make it right!


why not? these were well known breeders with good lines? They have put in all the effort of breeding these good lines over the years, so why shouldnt they charge a premium?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

lizward said:


> I assume you mean Australian mist, Saffron?
> 
> Liz


ha ha ha yes silly me! LOL


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

willing to pay for the "right lines" blinking expensive if you ask me! i would NEVER buy a bengal, there are so many being bred from "fantastic" lines these days, it's a scary bengal world out there, v expensive. and all the breeders are so fab they have MASSIVE waiting lists anyways


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> willing to pay for the "right lines" blinking expensive if you ask me! i would NEVER buy a bengal, there are so many being bred from "fantastic" lines these days, it's a scary bengal world out there, v expensive. and all the breeders are so fab they have MASSIVE waiting lists anyways


well part of the reason i didnt have a bengal is because the market is saturated and so many BYBs with Bengals!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> They have put in all the effort of breeding these good lines over the years, so why shouldnt they charge a premium?


OK fair enough, but then why should a novice breeder who buys in 2 cats from other peoples hard work do the same ?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Saikou said:


> OK fair enough, but then why should a novice breeder who buys in 2 cats from other peoples hard work do the same ?


yeah fair point i guess


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I wouldn't have a problem paying more for a breeding girl so long as it wasn't a stupid amount and you make a great point Kim. Why should novice Breeders cash in on a long term Breeder's hard work? If I was a novice breeder I wouldn't even consider selling active registered cats in the 1st place. I wouldn't be sure they would be even good enough to be bred from. I think that's something for when you've been doing it a long while. I also would not feel comfortable selling a cat for breeding to anyone who walked through me door like some people would, just to they can get their £950.


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## sarah123456789 (Mar 12, 2009)

The price i charge for breeding males and females is a bloody good price, i paid £1300 for 1 of my girls, my kittens have very good pedigrees and if I've been willing to pay so much for a breeding queen it shows that I am dedicated to the breeding of my cats and want the best, Theres people out there that are the same so they will pay that price for a very good breeding cat, which is cheap considering their lines.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Sorry but exorbitant inflated kitten prices does not mean "quality". I have a Gr Ch multi BIS winner from show winning lines, who gave me 5 litters of beautiful babies like shelling peas. I paid the same for her as my friend who had a kitten from the next litter for pet.

It does seem that some breeds have a policy for charging ridiculous prices for active cats. Strangely enough those are the same breeds that attract BYBs. I wonder why! Maybe if they stopped charging those prices then they would only attract SERIOUS breeders who were genuinely breeding for the love of the breed, out of their own pocket who were willing to help promote that breed and take it were it needed to be in terms of health, temperament and type. If there is no profit in it, it would not attract the unscrupulous BYBs - registered as well as unregistered - who can do so much damage to a breed in a very short space of time!


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## sarah123456789 (Mar 12, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> I can't believe you charge such a difference for a breeding cat. I know some do cost more etc, but seriously, that is just taking the p|$$ but more for the people who are actually willing to spend that much and line your pockets.


Im sorry but you are so rude, I have never made a penny from breeding and its cost my dad alot of money keeping me happy, loving my kitties and doing my hobby, im so spoilt, arnt i lucky.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

i'm not going to argue with you. i have my opinion and i think that price is silly. not just aimed at you, aimed at everyone who thinks £600 extra is reasonable.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

sarah123456789 said:


> I have never made a penny from breeding


Sorry but how can you say that? If the cost of a pet kitten covers the cost of raising that kitten then anything over and above is pure profit. If you paid £1300 for the queen, and in her first litter sold 2 girls for breeding at a premium of £600 each, then £1200 and you have nearly recouped the cost of your initial outlay in one go. Any further active kittens from that queen is profit.

True breeding shouldn't be about making money, it should be about promotion of the breed itself and the cats and kittens in your care.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I also wonder why some people charge more for a show neuter, I note you charge £100 extra for a show neuter. Do you show your cats at all? Just curious.


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Just to add my opinion.

I would never pay 600 more for an active kitten no matter what breed, fantastic lines etc.

It would ahve to be made from solid gold to justify that expense.

I have recently put a deposit on a Birman breeding potential kitten and I will be paying 125 over the standard pet price and that is for a show / breed kitten.

I understand charging a little more to ensure the buyer is serious and like a previous poster said to compensate all the hard work put in but nearly triple the pet price is ridiculous.

I think all breeders will agree that there is no money to be made in breeding when done properly and we all do it out of the love for our breed choice, otherwise we would all charge silly prices and try and make our money back.


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## sarah123456789 (Mar 12, 2009)

I was never looking for an argument and i never am on here when i post something but seem to always get people talking down to me as if im a dumb, money grabber who neglects my cats just because of the price i sell my kittens for, it's ridiculous what you people think up in your heads. I got warned that cat breeding could be bitchy but I never knew people would hound others over something so small, it's pathetic.
I'm not posting on here any more, it's not just this post but other peoples posts aswell, no wonder theres so many people that put 'im so nervous about my first post' or 'im new please dont shout at me', it's like some people on here just don't like it when new people come along.
Anyway thanks for all the 'GREAT' advice, have a nice day!


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## sarah123456789 (Mar 12, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Sorry but how can you say that? If the cost of a pet kitten covers the cost of raising that kitten then anything over and above is pure profit. If you paid £1300 for the queen, and in her first litter sold 2 girls for breeding at a premium of £600 each, then £1200 and you have nearly recouped the cost of your initial outlay in one go. Any further active kittens from that queen is profit.
> 
> True breeding shouldn't be about making money, it should be about promotion of the breed itself and the cats and kittens in your care.


I havn't sold any cats for breeding and also I don't make any profit from the kittens, or havn't done so far and don't even expect to, do you not pay for yours registering, wormers, flea treatment and injections? with all the out lay to keep this hobby going, i'd be very surprised if i ever did make any money


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

But all it would take is for you to sell one active kitten and then you've made a profit on that litter at least.

Like another poster said if 350 just about covers your costs of raising a kitten then you end up with 600 profit.

And I must say I am not surprised that you have not sold an active kitten because I cannot imagine anyone paying that!

Once I am more experianced in breeding / showing I would be proud to have someone breed from my lines as long as done correctly and even more so for someone to show from my lines.

Why you would charge more for show neuter I cannot understand as surely it is showing your name which can only make you look good.

In reference to newcomers on this forum I would like to point out that I am a newcomer and have found that the majority of people are very welcoming and helpful. However people have their own opinions and a lot of subjects are controversial.

If you post on a forum regarding these subjects then you need to expect a reaction, just the same as I would get if I suddenly announced that I'm gonna cross breed moggies to make myself some quick cash.

As long as it stays a healthy debate I see no issue and it's nice to hear other people's opinions on certain subjects. If you listen to some reasoning it may even sway your way of thinking.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> ha ha ha yes silly me! LOL


I thought so - well, that breed IMO is a case in point, all it is, is a cross between Burmese, Absyssinian and domestic cats - and so similar to the Burmilla that I very much doubt the GCCF will ever recognise it - but, as I understand it (can't find a registration policy to check) they have managed to maintain these sky high prices by refusing to accept new Burmese x Aby x domestic crosses.

Of course there might be a way of challenging that, given the right mix to start with and a willingness to go through the generations and to make onesself unpopular 

Liz


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

You will if you sell actives for over inflated prices ie a premium of £600 as you said in your original post.

Yes mine are all registered, vaccinated, vet checked, micro chipped, insured, wormed etc etc- fed a premium diet from day 1 and I make a loss on every litter and no I have never charged extra for show or breed kittens - nor would I. The price I charge for my kittens aims to recoup the cost of their upbringing and nothing more.

I consider it a compliment if anyone wants a kitten for show or breeding, and they would only get the latter if they could convince me they were serious and had the same breeding ethics as I do. They willingness to fork out a premium would not do that.


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Saikou - Exactly my point. I would also see it as a compliment.

There are rich but dodgy people out there who may pay a lot for an active kitten and completley mis-treat the cat whereas someone may pay less and care for the cat.

Money says nothing which is why you ask new owners so many questions.

I know when I first started looking for an active kitten I spent weeks getting to know my chosen breeder and discussing breeding ethics before she trusted me with one of her babies.

The second time was easier as I was recomended but with a newcomer you need to make sure that they are in it for the right reasons and I am very grateful for the information that my breeder gave me as it has certainly helped me an awful lot.


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## sarah123456789 (Mar 12, 2009)

its not an over inflated price though!

Prices vary somewhat from breeder to breeder, and often depend on the individual merits of specific cats. However, as an approximate guide, 'pet quality' Bengals typically sell for around £300 to £500 in the UK these days. For more advanced owners, top quality showing and breeding cats can cost from £800 to a few thousand pounds, depending on the quality of the individual cat.

That is taken from the bengal cat website, I sell my kittens for a very reasonable price.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Just because a "breed" group has a policy of charging over inflated prices for active/show kittens does not make the practice right!!! "I do it because everyone else does" isn't an arguement.

Average price for siamese and oriental kittens fall somewhere in the middle of bengal pet prices. There is not the policy within those breeds for charging 3x the pet price or more for show/breed kittens. Does that mean that all the new owners of siamese/oriental kittens with show breed potential don't appreciate what they have, aren't serious or none of those kittens are "quality" from "fantastic lines"?


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

As I have said before I have no experiance of Bengals but nothing would make me justify paying such a large excess for a breeding kitten.

If it cost the breeder more to produce I would understand but they require exactly the same as the pet kittens so how is an additional 600 justified?

I personally would not pay it and I know a friend that breeds Bengals paid no where near that when buying her first breeding cats.

I do not know what she paid other than she bought two breeding queens and had change for a night out from the 1000 pound insurance claim she got so can't have been any more than 500 each.

(Can you tell my pound sign will not work lol)


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

££££££££££££££££££££££ ha ha mine does :001_tt2:


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## Shelley Cat Lover (Jan 23, 2009)

Wow, I'd never realised that there was that much politics in breeding? 

It has been interesting to read about the varying prices of breeding cats, I hadn't realised people would charge so much more. The example given of 2 thirds more than an average pet price doesn't seem justifiable to me and I'm in agreement that it would just send some new breeders underground.

Paying a little more for a breeding kitten seems reasonable though. I'd have also thought it would be a great opportunity to make a contact with another person who shares your interests. And at least if you've sold them a kitten you've presumably checked out their home/lifestyle, so would be able to advise them on whether they should breed or not?

I'm unclear how anyone breeding isn't making a profit. My mum and I considered it after weighing up how much the costs involved were. We didnt calculate feeding them caviar though... :wink5:


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

sarah123456789 said:


> I got warned that cat breeding could be bitchy but I never knew people would hound others over something so small, it's pathetic


LOL I could tell you some stories about bitchiness in the cat world that would make your whiskers curl! I dont bother fighting most of the time.

Anyway BYBs are more likely to buy a cheaper pedigree kitten and breed from it than a more expensive one  therefore inflating my prices means that they wont be unscrupulously breeding from my lines! Thats then someone elses problem! Also it ensures they are serious about breeding. If people cant afford or wont pay the extra for a breeding cat  then it begs the question as to whether they can afford to breed at all.

I dont think that if anyone wants to breed from my cats as a Compliment for the simple reason that breeders are so cautious letting people into the breeding world, that someone who wants to breed will try a lot of breeders to see which will sell on the active. Im not saying that some of the enquires are for the genuine lines and good quality cats, but for new breeders, just getting your foot in the door is the first hurdle. And in my experience when looking for a queen I was happy to have a kitten from the first person that let me have it on the active  although that came with its problems and I regret it now!

Also just because I charge more for an active cat does not mean I am making a profit. Most of you bang on about making a continual loss, and so therefore the additional I charge for a breeding queen then enables me to Break Even on the rare occasion that I do sell on the active. I am very particular who I let breed and make sure they are doing it for the right reasons.



lizward said:


> I thought so - well, that breed IMO is a case in point, all it is, is a cross between Burmese, Absyssinian and domestic cats - and so similar to the Burmilla that I very much doubt the GCCF will ever recognise it - but, as I understand it (can't find a registration policy to check) they have managed to maintain these sky high prices by refusing to accept new Burmese x Aby x domestic crosses.
> 
> Of course there might be a way of challenging that, given the right mix to start with and a willingness to go through the generations and to make onesself unpopular
> 
> Liz


Yes that was my concern Liz about them being unrecognised etc etc. Which is why I didnt have one in the end  although I think they are gorgeous!
I think the stud fees were £850 when I was researching it too!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Shelley Cat Lover said:


> I'm unclear how anyone breeding isn't making a profit. My mum and I considered it after weighing up how much the costs involved were.


You need to do it to find that out


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Saikou said:


> You need to do it to find that out


 bloody well said!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> bloody well said!


how would you know about it? You dont breed! LOL


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Anyway BYBs are more likely to buy a cheaper pedigree kitten and breed from it than a more expensive one  therefore inflating my prices means that they wont be unscrupulously breeding from my lines!


Not necessarily, speculate to accumulate and all that. There are just as many "bybs" with registered prefixes as not.

I can see any unscruplous person doing a bit of maths. Approx £2500 outlay for a couple of active cats, bit more for prefix, web site (with of course obligatory over the top statements about quality and desirability of kittens for good effect) etc to give themselves credibility. Mate those cats as early as possible (even better if you can acquire a proven queen already pregnant) - reckon on an average of 4 kittens per litter 2x a year, sell them all active (to like minded thinking people) for a premium - similar price to that paid for the parents, don't care who they go to or why, just as long as they are willing to pay the price, feed them as cheaply as possible etc - not long before they start to see a return, as long as everything goes smoothly. If not, cut your losses and move on, ship em out, and onto the next breeding cat, and so it continues.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

i thought you didn't like b*tchy forums. No I dn't breed. I am sorry then that makes me STUPID does it. I have had a litter, and I know how much it costs THANKYOU and that was just for 2 kittens.


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## Shelley Cat Lover (Jan 23, 2009)

Saikou said:


> You need to do it to find that out


From what I hear in your thread Saikou your prices may be more reasonable than most  Maybe we factored kitten prices too high based on my own previous purchase and nosing around to buy 

I so wanted Oriental, but the bf wasn't up for it  But Mr B the BSH is pretty awesome, and uncharacteristically loud, attentive and playful, so maybe I have one in disguise


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> how would you know about it? You dont breed! LOL


thinking about it, even a non breeder could agree with that statement so there is no need for the eye rolling really.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> thinking about it, even a non breeder could agree with that statement so there is no need for the eye rolling really.


And no a non - breeder cannot agree with that statement when they know nothing about breeding LMAO

There is no need for the nastiness either is there Vicki which you have done a couple of times in this thread! I have not been rude to anyone


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> i thought you didn't like b*tchy forums. No I dn't breed. I am sorry then that makes me STUPID does it. I have had a litter, and I know how much it costs THANKYOU and that was just for 2 kittens.


1 litter does not a breeder make! Or does it make you an expert on the continuing issues of a breeding cashflow. Plus i never said u were stupid - i am not that rude to people.
And im not the one being bitchy vicki - you are the one being rude to people.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Yes, the could. It's like anything, you have to try it to see what it's like. 

 so the eye roll was not condersending to me in anyways? you don't breed so DON't have an opinion? Sorry, but it's how it came across. 

So you've been breeding for one year and now you are an expert. I apologise for having an opinion and will endevour to keep my mouth shut now.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Not necessarily, speculate to accumulate and all that. There are just as many "bybs" with registered prefixes as not


Yeah true saiks but just because they dont have a registered prefix doesnt mean they are a BYB.
In my opinion a BYB is someone who is a breeding farm and is interested in purely income and feed the cats on the cheapest possible food etc etc.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Shelley Cat Lover said:


> I'm unclear how anyone breeding isn't making a profit. My mum and I considered it after weighing up how much the costs involved were. We didnt calculate feeding them caviar though... :wink5:


This is a common misconception and of course much depends on the price of the kittens. For me, based on £250 per kitten selling price (which was what I got last year), and using my own stud, I seem to recall calculating a profit of about £120 per kitten UNLESS something went wrong. Last year, one girl had a very nasty post-kittening infection and nearly died, total cost nearly £600, another girl lost a whole litter and had to have an emergency caesarean, cost over £500, the second time she had another emergency caesarean, again over £500, total number of live kittens from both litters - two. That's before you get normal kittenhood illnesses like runny eyes and diahorrea.

Liz


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> 1 litter does not a breeder make! Or does it make you an expert on the continuing issues of a breeding cashflow. Plus i never said u were stupid - i am not that rude to people.
> And im not the one being bitchy vicki - you are the one being rude to people.


I did not say a litter makes me an expert ANYWHERE!? So does 5 make you an expert? :idea: I was saying about Kims comment. I have raised a litter of kittens and so I therefore understand the cost involved ZOWIE!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> Yes, the could. It's like anything, you have to try it to see what it's like.
> 
> so the eye roll was not condersending to me in anyways? you don't breed so DON't have an opinion? Sorry, but it's how it came across.
> 
> So you've been breeding for one year and now you are an expert. I apologise for having an opinion and will endevour to keep my mouth shut now.


I never said you cant have an opinion, but if you have no experience of breeding (for more than one litter) then how can u possibly understand about the loss making and therefore agreeing to the statement?

I still have a lot to learn about breeding and dont claim to be an expert Vicki - but i certainly know more than u dont u think?
Also being an accountant I am able to project my income and manage my cashflow


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

closed for moderating


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Yes that was my concern Liz about them being unrecognised etc etc. Which is why I didnt have one in the end  although I think they are gorgeous!
> I think the stud fees were £850 when I was researching it too!


Well, get a silver abyssinian girl and use my Burmese boy, what about it? 

Liz


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