# Passport??



## Madpetlady (Feb 8, 2013)

Hi, my friend bought a mare of a breeder (ex broodmare) 
The lady dropped the mare down and then money was exchanged/recipt signed, and the lady then said she had forgot the passport and will bring it down..
So, its been months now. My friend has made contact with the breeder, to which the breeder said she "couldnt find it" then the next excuse was was "she had found it but the wrong horse was found on the passport" (Basically wrong horse for the passport) 
The mare was on an actual stud website for a breeding mare, so she surely must have had the correct passport to breed her?
My friend doesnt know what to do? The owner now ignores her, we only know her breed & name, (ID X TB mare, dark bay/black) But the pics of her on the stud was a dapple bay chunky thing, but she's not dapple bay she is black with bay muzzle and quite slim. The two horses are completely different, we know she had her about 4 ish years, and is meant to be 18 but vet said she was older than that, we think breeder may have got her from the auction like other horses she has, but other horses she sold (had to sell up) not one had her name on the passport? Even one she had owned for 8+ years?? (3 horses sold with out her name on the passport, 1 horse with out a passport) 
Any advice?


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## Baileys Blind (Jan 23, 2012)

'I've forgotten it' or 'I haven't got it from the previous owner' seems to be a code for hasn't got one in many cases 

Do you know anyone with a chip scanner who could pop out and scan the horse?? Although if she's older she may not be chipped at all 

To be able to transport or sell her you need a passport so I'd be tempted to spend the £50 and get her re-done rather than face a fine.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

I'd get her scanned to see if she has a chip and also check the stolen horse database - sounds like a scammer to me who has sold a horse on as something when it clearly isn't, it's also illegal to sell a horse without a passport so you could try that route with the previous owner and threaten the police will be involved if she doesn't cough up the passport. 

A friend of mine bought a horse for her daughter, she bought it from a supposed private seller, when she had the vet out to check it over and vaccinate her the vet found the chip didn't match the passport. Turned out the horse was registered as stolen, and had actually been written off by an insurance company as she had sustained an injury to her hocks which meant she was never meant to be ridden again - my friend bought her as a jumping pony and the previous 2 people who had bought the pony after it was stolen had also been jumping the poor animal.
The police were involved and she did actually manage to get her money back and the pony was returned to her original distraught owner as she required drugs to keep her pasture sound let alone rideable! 

Am not sure what the time limitations are on the sale of goods and getting your money back, as a few months have lapsed, but under the sale of goods act it could be deemed as fraud as you've been misled as to what horse you were buying - you say she has a receipt - that is the proof you need to say what she has bought does not match the reality! So she maybe entitled to get her money back, but the cost of going to court maybe far more than what was paid for the horse so may not be worth the effort - at least the old mare is safe now and can be retired to a much happier ending!! Ask your vet to scan her though and if no chip just get a new passport done then and there. Try the british horse society for legal advice, am sure there are people who deal with this sort of fraud so ask around - try the horse and hound forum as there are alot more knowledgable legal buffs on there.


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## Millymollymoo (Mar 11, 2013)

It is illegal to sell a horse without a valid passport and if you buy one, you will immediately be committing an offence by owning a horse without a valid passport. It is vital to see the passport before you take possession of the horse and check that it is fully valid with a suitable identification section and UELN (If in any doubt, seek advice from a vet or trading standards officer). Never take the vendors word for it that the horse has a passport. Check that the person selling the horse is listed in the passport as the current owner. Do not always believe the horses age written on the passport as this is unlikely to have been verified. If you buy a horse, you must return the passport to the issuing authority within 30 days to change the ownership details. Failure to do this is an offence.

Horses sold at auctions also have to have a valid passport.


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## Madpetlady (Feb 8, 2013)

Hello, the mare wasnt chipped, so my friend re-done it. She is going to re-passport her but we think something dodgy has gone on with the mare. As I said, lady had a pure ID dapple bay broodmare advertised, but the mare that was actually her was more tb looking and dark bay, nearly black, no way they the same horse, so so many people have bought a foal from a mare who isnt the mare on the website.. if that makes sense? 

Majority of her mares/stallions come from the market, but not sure if its the local one near us? 

Just wanted to see if can get the old owner to hand the passport over, as turns out behind my friends back the old owner was trying to sell her to me! (friend bought her in May, old owner trying to sell me horse in July but I had no where to put her)


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

If the horse came through the market then legally it will have had a passport there and should have been chipped too, although without any form of identification it is very hard to prove that is where it came from - also lots of dodgy sellers go to these and sell horses in the parking lot. At 18 I hope your friend didn't pay very much for her or hope to breed from her as if she's being sold as an 18yr old horse chances are she's way older?

And no you don't need a passport to breed from a mare unless it is a purebred horse and you are taking it to a stud who do checks - which any decent stud should do - this one sounds more like it was just churning out foals to make a fast buck and being labeled as a certain type may have added a bit extra onto the value of said folas rather than just selling them as random haven't got a clues!
How on earth did your friend fall for buying a horse so different from the one she saw on the website to what she was buying in reality? Have you got a pic of the mare she thought she was buying and the one she actually bought?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

AlexArt said:


> If the horse came through the market then legally it will have had a passport there and should have been chipped too, although without any form of identification it is very hard to prove that is where it came from - also lots of dodgy sellers go to these and sell horses in the parking lot. At 18 I hope your friend didn't pay very much for her or hope to breed from her as if she's being sold as an 18yr old horse chances are she's way older?
> 
> And no you don't need a passport to breed from a mare unless it is a purebred horse and you are taking it to a stud who do checks - which any decent stud should do - this one sounds more like it was just churning out foals to make a fast buck and being labeled as a certain type may have added a bit extra onto the value of said folas rather than just selling them as random haven't got a clues!
> How on earth did your friend fall for buying a horse so different from the one she saw on the website to what she was buying in reality? Have you got a pic of the mare she thought she was buying and the one she actually bought?


Surely any stud would ask to see the passport because the law now is that the passport has to be available to be shown within so many hours of being asked.
It all sounds very dodgy.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

The passport should be shown if you're taking a mare to a good stud BUT it's not a legal requirement, a mare should also have when going to stud all the health test certificates and it should have had and proof of vaccination - a dodgy stud won't check or care they are just intrested in the money, but the OP said the seller of this mare had bought her own stallions as well as mares from a local market and if this woman is just bunging them all in a field together and churning out any old crap foals to make a few quid then no passport needed sadly! 
They would need one incase they are stopped by DEFRA while in transit though by law or if using a liscenced transporter then they have to have the passport or they won't take the horse but if it's a private horse box/lorry then who's to say - how many times have you ever heard of anyone travelling a horse being stopped and asked to see a passport - most dodgy folk won't bother!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

AlexArt said:


> The passport should be shown if you're taking a mare to a good stud BUT it's not a legal requirement, a mare should also have when going to stud all the health test certificates and it should have had and proof of vaccination - a dodgy stud won't check or care they are just intrested in the money, but the OP said the seller of this mare had bought her own stallions as well as mares from a local market and if this woman is just bunging them all in a field together and churning out any old crap foals to make a few quid then no passport needed sadly!
> They would need one incase they are stopped by DEFRA while in transit though by law or if using a liscenced transporter then they have to have the passport or they won't take the horse but if it's a private horse box/lorry then who's to say - how many times have you ever heard of anyone travelling a horse being stopped and asked to see a passport - most dodgy folk won't bother!


I know, passports are not worth anything. They often do not match the horse and no one ever asks to see them - including vets before they prescribe drugs that are banned for animals going into the food chain!


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