# Please help! 5 years no problems ....



## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Hello everyone 

We have had our female (sterilised) cat for 5 years from a kitten and she has never given us any problems. She is regularly wormed etc and has recently had her one year booster in June and was checked over by the vet as routine. 

Steve (yes she's female) does not have a litter tray. She used to have one in our previous house (her first house) but when we moved in July 2013 we decided to try her without one and it worked very well. She goes out at night and comes in in the morning and spends all day sleeping without the need to go out again and do the toilet. Since we moved we haven't changed our routines at all. We haven't had any major changes. We don't have a cat flap. 

Our problems started about six weeks ago. My husband came home from work to find she had pooped on our spare bed. The duvet went straight into the bin. We couldn't understand it as this behaviour was right out of the blue. I was away at the time but my husband admitted she got shouted at and chucked out of the house. About two weeks later she pooped again in exactly the same place. Couldn't believe it. There is no way she could have smelt her previous poop as the whole duvet was chucked out. We decided to deny her access to any of the bedrooms (she was previously sleeping on top of our bed during the day with no problems). About a week ago she started sleeping in a corner of the landing behind a settee - like she was sulking and wanted to be left alone. 

Today when we returned from lunch, she was at the door to greet us which was strange as she would be usually sleeping. I went upstairs to find she had been sick, and a short distance away in the corner by our bedroom door, she had pooped. If she was caught short, surely she would do it near the front door? 

I have noticed a different cat in the vicinity. But surely if a new cat was on the block and was bothering her, then surely she would resist going out at night but she gladly goes out at night no bother. 

Please help! 

Linda


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

What does the vet say?


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Hi there

We haven't taken her to the vet over this yet. She last saw the vet in June and he just checked her over and said she was healthy. 

Thanks

Linda


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

When cats change their toilet habits, especially combined with being sick, it is often due to being unwell.

Rather than shouting at her and chucking the poor cat out of the house, how about you take her to the vet first and see if there is some medical reason for this change?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I would take her to the vet to rule out any physical problems. Animals do not 'sulk' they often take themselves away if they are in pain though.

She may be being bullied, she may not want to go out if she is feeling unwell & vunerable but please do not shout at her, animals do not do things like this to annoy us.

I would also get another litter tray for her to use in the mean time.


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## GingerNinja (Mar 23, 2014)

I agree that if she has no access to outside, she absolutely needs to have a litter tray. How would you feel if you had no access to a loo if you needed to go 

Also agree that she should be checked at the vet as hiding is not a good sign.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

If I understand correctly since you moved there is no cat flap. Are you shutting her out at night and indoors during the day?
If she is shut in without a litter tray then what is she supposed to do?  You need to provide adequate litter trays indoors.
Also I would not recommend shutting a cat out at night, there are far too many dangers.
I think you seriously need to reconsider your living arrangements to take into account the cats needs.


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Hi there

My husband realised he shouldn't have shouted at her and chucked her out of the house - he said it was just the shock of it and I was away at the time. She is loved totally and spoilt by both of us. When we moved we didn't have anywhere suitable to put a litter tray (we didn't want to put it in the kitchen) so we tried no litter tray to see if it worked and it did for 16 months with absolutely no problems. We realise she is in all day but I am at home every day and most days she just stays upstairs for sometimes for 8 hours and doesn't need or want to be let out. 

I will take her to the vet but she is eating normally, not drinking any more than usual etc so I am thinking she is stressed in some way. If it is another cat outside that is stressing her at night what can I do? 

Thanks 

Linda


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

There's always a reason why they start to do these things... I would be thinking either bullying or not well. Sometimes the cat goes to the toilet in the "wrong" place or has no other option (if there's no tray to use) and they know they have done wrong so work themselves up into such as tate that they are sick.

Whatever you will gain nothing by shouting at the cat or reprimanding - cat's learn quickly with praise. I would be getting a few trays and if she uses one praise her for doing so.

And most definitely keep her in at night.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Some cats may manage for a time, but I do think it is alot to ask that she has no litter tray & no access to the outside should she need to go to the toilet. 

Expecting her to 'hold on' can cause problems & stress ....get her a litter tray, that way she can go to the toilet in her own home, without any worry - easiest solution


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Hi there 

I think because she had managed with these arrangements for 16 months perfectly well, I felt it had nothing to do with her wanting a litter tray back. But I will take your advice and re introduce her litter tray. To be on the safe side I will take her to the vets as well to rule out anything medical. 

Just need to say again that we don't shout at her. This only happened once when she first did it. 

Linda


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm glad you're taking her to see the vet. 

Have you looked at this thread?
http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-trai...peeing-pooing-house-house-soiling-thread.html


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Linda13 said:


> Hi there
> 
> I think because she had managed with these arrangements for 16 months perfectly well, I felt it had nothing to do with her wanting a litter tray back. But I will take your advice and re introduce her litter tray. To be on the safe side I will take her to the vets as well to rule out anything medical.
> 
> ...


We all have moments when we react in ways we later realise didn't help a situation 

Have you witnessed her going for a wee? Just wondered if she may have a UTI as these seem to be common in some cats.


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## GingerNinja (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm sure that she is very much loved 

Hopefully when she gets a tray and a vet check all well be well xx

ETA I also had a cat that was being bullied and started soiling in the house. Unfortunately a tray didn't help in my case.


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## Kcabrera3 (Jul 27, 2014)

Cat protection have a guide for litter try and cats outdoors... 
http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/Behaviour_-_To_pee_or_not_to_pee.pdf


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Thank you GingerNija 

She is very very loved. 

I haven't witnessed her having a pee. 

If it is another cat (it's the only thing I can pin point that has changed within the last 6 weeks) how can I help? I have no control over another cat coming into the garden? 

Thanks 

Linda


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

We all occasionally shout at our cats I'm sure - I know when I did it last I felt guilty for days - please don't worry about that 
Defo vet visit, a couple of indoor litter trays and try to switch around the routine - ie. shut in at night, free access during daylight hours.
Good luck and I hope kitty feels happier real soon x


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Your cat is now approaching middle age in cat years so her routine needs to be adjusted IMO firstly a microchip cat flap and a litter tray. If the problem isn't health related then you need to consider as others have said - bullying and stress. She needs to be able to get in her home at all times. Where does she find shelter when the weather is bad or icy cold outside in the middle of winter? A visit to the vet might well be appropriate. I hope you can get your little one sorted.


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

We have a wee house for her outside which is warm and she has a blanket there. To be honest, I don't think she uses it much and we don't know why. When she comes in first thing, she either comes from the bushes in the garden, so we think she has a den there, or from under my car. In the winter, when the weather gets bad we keep her indoors. We do it for her safety but she is restless so we end up staying up all night with her sometimes. 

I just don't understand that if she is being bullied, why is she quite happy to go out at night. As soon as we turn the lights off downstairs and make a move to go to bed, she usually follows us into the kitchen and makes a beeline for the front door?? Also if she is being bullied, what can I do about that? 

Linda


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## Finfendy (Sep 9, 2014)

Linda, unfortuantely if another cat is getting into your garden and intimidating her there the options are limited, I have had this problem and am solving it with a microchip cat flap and cat proofing the garden. At the moment only one of my cats has access has access to the outside as I wouldn't want my oldest or the kitten running in to the bully cat.
I would definately reintroduce a litter tray and see if that helps.
Cats get used to routine, I'm not sure this means that they enjoy it. Personally I would try it the other way round, have her outside when you are awake and at home then you can see if anything is traumatising her outside. Do you live in an area of high cat density?


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## Kcabrera3 (Jul 27, 2014)

Actually Linda, you might be right. My cat has been chase away by a person and he doesn't want to go outside and when I try to encourage him, 15 minutes later he ran inside clearly disturbe...

So, perhaps it is a medical condition


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Thanks. Never thought of a cat flap. We can't have one here but we are moving next May back to our own house and we will install one there. 

There are quite a few cats around here. It's fairly rural so we are spread out quite a bit, but we have never felt that Steve ever wandered very far during her 5 years. Perhaps we should invest in a cat cam? Has anyone ever tried this? 

Linda


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Linda13 said:


> Thanks. Never thought of a cat flap. We can't have one here but we are moving next May back to our own house and we will install one there.
> 
> There are quite a few cats around here. It's fairly rural so we are spread out quite a bit, but we have never felt that Steve ever wandered very far during her 5 years. Perhaps we should invest in a cat cam? Has anyone ever tried this?
> 
> Linda


You have a door for the cat to go out so why can't you put a cat flap in? Sorry Linda I might have missed something. I do t think a camera will solve anything tbh. Litter tray indoors would be first on my list.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Soozi said:


> You have a door for the cat to go out so why can't you put a cat flap in? Sorry Linda I might have missed something. I do t think a camera will solve anything tbh. Litter tray indoors would be first on my list.


Same here, I don't see what use a cat cam would be ... apart from alot of money!

Rather than speculate on other cats & what the issue might be, get her a litter tray today & booked in to the vets tomorrow


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## GingerNinja (Mar 23, 2014)

My cat was being bullied by an un-neutered tom and it was awful. Luckily for me, he just disappeared one day (his owners do not know what happened to him), I'm ashamed to say that I was happy he was gone 

I tried everything, including water spray / chasing / shouting but he didn't seem to care. This was an extreme case. 

I'm not sure what you can do if you have not seen any cat and bullying behaviour. 

I think you need to sort out a tray, perhaps a vet checkup, to rule those out first and take it from there. 

I hope Steve settles soon xx


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Just thought a camera would identify if there is another cat bullying her. I agree it is expensive and before I would do that I will reintroduce the litter tray and take her to the vets. 

We can't install a cat flap. We are renting and the landlord doesn't know we have a cat. 

Linda


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## Cats cats cats (Feb 4, 2011)

Linda13 said:


> Hi there
> 
> My husband realised he shouldn't have shouted at her and chucked her out of the house - he said it was just the shock of it and I was away at the time. She is loved totally and spoilt by both of us. When we moved we didn't have anywhere suitable to put a litter tray (we didn't want to put it in the kitchen) so we tried no litter tray to see if it worked and it did for 16 months with absolutely no problems. We realise she is in all day but I am at home every day and most days she just stays upstairs for sometimes for 8 hours and doesn't need or want to be let out.
> 
> ...


Loved totally and spoilt ? You don't even provide her with a litter tray and then are annoyed at her when she needs to go!


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## Polly G (Apr 30, 2013)

I am sure she is fine but please get a vet check. When my boy started this sort of behaviour it was because he developed a serious medical condition x


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Linda13 said:


> Just thought a camera would identify if there is another cat bullying her. I agree it is expensive and before I would do that I will reintroduce the litter tray and take her to the vets.
> 
> We can't install a cat flap. We are renting and the landlord doesn't know we have a cat.
> 
> Linda


A camera might identify another cat coming in your garden and terrorizing your cat but you will still be powerless to do anything about it! If you bring her in during the winter then I would start bringing her in now and provide the litter tray as suggested. It's a no brainer Linda. I really hope your little girl will be happy again soon and that she doesn't gave any medical condition.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Linda13 said:


> Hi there
> 
> *I think because she had managed with these arrangements for 16 months perfectly well, I felt it had nothing to do with her wanting a litter tray back.* But I will take your advice and re introduce her litter tray. To be on the safe side I will take her to the vets as well to rule out anything medical.
> 
> ...


The length of time she's been forced to hold her pee and poop is not relevant. Just because she's managed up to now doesn't mean she will always manage.

It's quite possible that the strange cat has left her feeling unsafe to do her toileting outside, since when she is pooping she is in a vulnerable position..a sitting duck you might say.

However holding in waste is very unhealthy for any living thing.

If she's been trying to hold her poop I am not surprised she is getting sick. Holding poop will lead to constipation. Holding pee with lead to urinary tract illness and kidney disease.

Please, please, give her a litter box inside and never take it away from her again, even if she "doesn't use it often" she should have it. Always.

Her check up in June was just that, a check up. It was not an appointment to evaluate for illness. A cat's health can change at any time, especially when there are changes in the environment, and especially when being forced to hold in waste.


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## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

Things change. Just because it worked for 18 months doesnt mean it will forever.

Vet visit first to rule out illness etc. A couple of litter trays regardless of vets diagnosis

If there's a new cat on the block she may be stressed, she may not be able to go where she's always gone. Do you know exactly where she goes when shes out all night? There could be new cats/kids/dogs in her old haunt. Whatever has caused the change the simple fact is she has changed and its down to you to adapt to her current needs


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Linda13 said:


> We can't install a cat flap. We are renting and the landlord doesn't know we have a cat.
> 
> Linda


Ah. Do you have any ground floor windows that could be safely left open where the cat could enter and exit the house?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I agree with the others ^^ there is a fair chance she may be being intimidated by a cat in the neighbourhood, perhaps a new cat that arrived recently, or a kitten that has reached maturity and started flexing his/her muscles. 

If your cat feels wary when outdoors she is most unlikely to use the outdoor cat house you have provided, as she could get trapped in there, without any way out, if a strange cat decided to block the doorway. Also, unless you have fitted the cat house with a microchip cat flap all the cats in the neighbourhood will have been inside and likely sprayed it with urine. Certainly scent marked it to deter your cat from using it. 

If you want to provide somewhere outside for your cat to stay when she is shut out, then choose a proper shed, with plenty of room to put in cosy bedding, bowl of water, litter tray and food. Fit a microchip cat flap in the door for her, and also put in a low watt electric heater, on a time switch, to come on every night. (the kind that is used in shelters. Of course you'd need to run it on an extension lead from the house.) Even at present the nights can be chilly. 

But personally I really would not recommend ever leaving a cat shut out at night, even when you have provided outdoor accommodation for her as I have described. If she is being chased or attacked by a bully then she needs to be able to escape indoors through a microchip flap to the safety of her home. 

I appreciate if your landlord does not allow you to have a cat you can't exactly fit a cat flap. In which case I would not allow your cat out at night at all. Surely she could go out for a few hours in the evening and then be called in before bedtime, tempted with a tasty wet supper of her favourite food? 

Of course she would need at least one litter tray over night, preferably 2.
But she should have these provided all the time anyway, as others have said. And as lorilu has said, holding on to waste products is not healthy. The more a cat holds on to their urine the more concentrated it becomes, and this can lead to bladder problems. 

I also agree with the suggestion to get her health checked out by the vet.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> Ah. Do you have any ground floor windows that could be safely left open where the cat could enter and exit the house?


Problem I see there moggie is that another cat could still chase her into the house! more trouble?


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Yes true enough. Although I should perhaps have also said that I don't think the cat should have free access at night. The cat should be shut in at night and possibly a flap or window as access during the day. It's less likely bullying will occur in daylight hours.
Other than this I'm not sure what to suggest really


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

moggie14 said:


> Yes true enough. Although I should perhaps have also said that I don't think the cat should have free access at night. The cat should be shut in at night and possibly a flap or window as access during the day. It's less likely bullying will occur in daylight hours.
> Other than this I'm not sure what to suggest really


Yes I agree Hun! The OP said they bring her in in the winter so being as it's now Autumn maybe they should keep her in from now on until they move house, May next year I think she said. Ideal time to start is now.


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Hi everyone

Thank you for your comments and help. I need to clarify a couple of points. Firstly I am really upset - Steve is my little girl and yes, she is totally loved and totally spoilt. I accept that she is getting older and perhaps her needs have changed, but as I said in one of my earlier posts, I am in every single day. She is not being forced to hold in her poop. That would be unkind and cruel and that I am not!! Her routine when she comes in in the morning (6am) which is when I get up, she comes in. I feed her. I play with her. She grooms herself and falls asleep upstairs until around 11am. She comes downstairs and has a bite to eat. If she wants out she can as a window is usually open but more often than not she decides to go back to bed and stays there until perhaps 6pm when my husband comes home. She will come in and join us and may want out at around 8pm. She'll join us again until we go to bed at around 10pm. We tried to keep her in a few times when the weather was bad, (torrential rain) but she was chomping at the bit to get out. Now and again I have occasion to come downstairs in the middle of the night for a drink. When I do, it is rare that she is at the window trying to get in. 

I really do appreciate all your comments, but some of them have made us out to be bad owners by saying we are forcing our cat to hold in her poop and urine and this is not the case. 

Linda


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## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

If you're not there when she needs to go then...shes either forced to hold it or do it somewhere in the house. She really does need a couple of litterboxes

(both times its happened you say you were out)


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Hi there

We are definitely re introducing the litter tray. Yes both times we were out that is true but we haven't been forcing her to hold in her poop. 

Linda


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Hi there

Just come back from the vets and thankfully the vet has ruled out anything medically wrong with Steve so I am absolutely relieved and happy. 

Just had to thank all those forum members who gave me practical advice. 

Linda


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Glad to hear the vet has given her the all clear


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## Linda13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Me too. I was worried sick. This was the earliest the vet could squeeze me in. 
Will sleep tonight. 

Thanks 

Linda


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks for the update Linda - pleased to hear Steve is well xx


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

How's Steve doing with the litter tray indoors? Pleased to hear she was all OK physically.


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