# what age is maturity??



## natb (Aug 26, 2008)

i have a male sbt and i posted recently because i got another one also a male. i was posting because of the things i had heard about dogs not getting along etc and it came up time and again that it may become an issue when the pup reaches "maturity".
what i wanted to know is what age is maturity?? i wanna do everything possible to prevent any problems so wanna be clued up befor the event.
also is it best to have pup castrated at 6months to prevent any aggression????

cheers for any info you can give.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2008)

My vet has advised we get our male puppy neutered at 6 months as he will be a lot calmer and less keen to dominate. I'm a little unsure of this though as I have heard others saying you shouldnt castrate til 18months... but I think I will take my vets advice as after all he is the professional...

Adolescence (the teen years!) usually hits home around 6 months and can last til around 18months. As a puppy the dog will be pretty eager to please and will look to you regularly for instruction but when the hormones kick in so does their confidence and they can get a lot more boisterous... the novelty of pleasing their owners has warn off and so they try doing things their way a little more!


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2008)

sorry i meant to add in there I cant really help with regards to your other dog as we only have the one.. im sure others will offer advice from past exp though x


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## terriermaid (Nov 5, 2007)

louise5031 said:


> My vet has advised we get our male puppy neutered at 6 months as he will be a lot calmer and less keen to dominate. I'm a little unsure of this though as I have heard others saying you shouldnt castrate til 18months... but I think I will take my vets advice as after all he is the professional...
> 
> Adolescence (the teen years!) usually hits home around 6 months and can last til around 18months. As a puppy the dog will be pretty eager to please and will look to you regularly for instruction but when the hormones kick in so does their confidence and they can get a lot more boisterous... the novelty of pleasing their owners has warn off and so they try doing things their way a little more!


sorry but i find it hard to understand why you have a dog ,but dont want it to be a mature adult.before deballing him


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## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

I do think that castration does depend on the dog itself as some are constantly moulting every thing in sight which can become a problem if you have young children. It does calm a dog although it can take 3 months some times for the hormones to settle. A lthough i know of people that have said doing it has not altered there dogs behaviour.
It can help with the domminance issues with other dogs. Also its said it is best to do it as early if your not intending to breed from your dog as decreases the risk of testical cancer.
My vet recommmende 10 to 11 months but this will also depend on the dog its self. Some dogs dont have it done till later your have to weigh up your sistuation as your dog gets bigger. Good luck


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## terriermaid (Nov 5, 2007)

sorry im not getting at anyone but of course it reduces the risk of testicular cancer if they have no testicles ,but what is the incedences of testicular cancer in dogs .its ohhhh cancer get them off ,its the same with bitches of course they wont get ovarian cancer if there spade but also there are so many dogs neutered before they mature and never reach there true potentialand allowed to be dogs


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

terriermaid said:


> there are so many dogs neutered before they mature and never reach there true potentialand allowed to be dogs


So true, I really can't see the reasoning behind so many vets wanting to neuter so young. It's far more beneficial to wait until they are mature in both body and mind.

Neutering to avoid or solve dominance issues or behaviour problems is just a big cop out, train your dog instead of just cutting his balls off.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

My vet would not advocate neutering a large breed dog before 18 months - every vet has their own ideas but I tend to agree with mine. Smaller breeds do tend to mature younger but personally I wouldnt be neutering any dog before 12 months. De-nadding a dog will not solve training issues


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

natb said:


> i have a male sbt and i posted recently because i got another one also a male. i was posting because of the things i had heard about dogs not getting along etc and it came up time and again that it may become an issue when the pup reaches "maturity".
> what i wanted to know is what age is maturity?? i wanna do everything possible to prevent any problems so wanna be clued up befor the event.
> also is it best to have pup castrated at 6months to prevent any aggression????
> 
> cheers for any info you can give.


Staffordshire Bull Terriers reach maturity between 18 to 24 months, which is pretty much the same for other medium to large breeds.

In my opinion proper socialisation is the key to owning a non-aggressive dog, any dog adequately socialised from an early age will be sociable towards other friendly dogs, and will just avoid unfriendly dogs. There can still be a certain amount of posturing between male dogs, but this is normal and does not need to be aggressive.

And of course it goes without saying, training helps too.

I do agree with both ajshep1984, and terriermaid, neutering a dog too early stunts the proper development of a dog, both physically and mentally.

My male Weim is now 16 months and I will soon be getting another Weim, but I won't be neutering either of them until 36 months, and will be doing so purely for the health benefits.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> My vet has advised we get our male puppy neutered at 6 months as he will be a lot calmer and less keen to dominate. I'm a little unsure of this though as I have heard others saying you shouldnt castrate til 18months... but I think I will take my vets advice as after all he is the professional...
> 
> Adolescence (the teen years!) usually hits home around 6 months and can last til around 18months. As a puppy the dog will be pretty eager to please and will look to you regularly for instruction but when the hormones kick in so does their confidence and they can get a lot more boisterous... the novelty of pleasing their owners has warn off and so they try doing things their way a little more!


Well the vet would wouldn't he now! did he also tell you that castration does not always solve problems


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

I am not at all wanting to cut my dogs ******** off to avoid training him! My god I cant believe anyone would suggest that. Putting the time and effort into training my dog and watching him grow was the main reason for getting my buddy! I was simply saying what my vet had advised, and the reason I mentioned that I had heard it should be a lot later was because I wanted your help and advice... well thanks for being so nasty about it

Isnt this the point of a forum? geez i didnt know ... if u hear something from a vet u dont realise this could be so wrong. Another reason I was so keen to take his advice is because the breeder told me that so many people put castrating off without realising that a dog of six months can easily cause unwanted litters. My dog is a mongrel and I would definately not want to breed him so I thought I should take the advice from the practice... obviously I will have to get a second opinion. 

Thanks anyway, cheers for making me feel awful.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

oh and before anyone jumps in there and starts having a go at me for the last part of that post, obviously i will keep a close on my dog but accidents can and DO happen creating litter upon litter of unwanted puppies.


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## scoobydoo (Aug 28, 2008)

louise im sorry hun but every post i have read by you is bitchy . if you really dont like the forum that much then why come on here 
i dont see anyone attacking you in this thread so why jump on people 
they are giving you their advice and you are biting them for it 
sorry if im out of line but its been ticking me off as i personally think people have been really friendly


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Louise take your head outta ya ass girlfriend - I was just answering the question
Vets seldom have much knowledge about training dogs - they are there to make them better they are not professional dog trainers. Getting a dog castrated will not *necessarily* make them calmer nor make them less likely to dominate - only firm, fair, consistant training will do that - end of


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Louise take your head outta ya ass girlfriend - I was just answering the question
> Vets seldom have much knowledge about training dogs - they are there to make them better they are not professional dog trainers. Getting a dog castrated will not *necessarily* make them calmer nor make them less likely to dominate - only firm, fair, consistant training will do that - end of


Jo I'm sorry i forgot to quote the responses that i thought were a bit niggly, i wasnt referring to yours at all, i agree totally with what you're saying and would never believe that chopping the balls off is a quick solution to bad behaviour/dominance and the like, ok guys i worded it all wrong im sorry :S


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

scoobydoo said:


> louise im sorry hun but every post i have read by you is bitchy . if you really dont like the forum that much then why come on here
> i dont see anyone attacking you in this thread so why jump on people
> they are giving you their advice and you are biting them for it
> sorry if im out of line but its been ticking me off as i personally think people have been really friendly


erm i dont think every post i have written is bitchy. i do like the forum im just new to allll forums and was just commenting on how people can jump down ur throat like saying they dont understand why i even have a dog etc.

i havent meant to be bitchy in any posts so sorry if i have, i joined last week to introduce my unusual lookin dog and chat. i didnt mean to take it out on anyone this morning, i guess i just felt awful that i was contemplating getting him done at six months and this is obviously bad for him.

will make a fresh start and not take anything too seriously...


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## scoobydoo (Aug 28, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> erm i dont think every post i have written is bitchy. i do like the forum im just new to allll forums and was just commenting on how people can jump down ur throat like saying they dont understand why i even have a dog etc.
> 
> i havent meant to be bitchy in any posts so sorry if i have, i joined last week to introduce my unusual lookin dog and chat. i didnt mean to take it out on anyone this morning, i guess i just felt awful that i was contemplating getting him done at six months and this is obviously bad for him.
> 
> will make a fresh start and not take anything too seriously...


cool  welcome to the forum


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

hehe, thanks  what am i like! causing all sorts at a silly time of the morning!


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## scoobydoo (Aug 28, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> hehe, thanks  what am i like! causing all sorts at a silly time of the morning!


its night time here


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

Ok,
I think the op was slighty worried after I posted on this thread,
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/12655-help-me-re-my-staffy-boys.html

I gave this answer in response, 
Some staffords will quite happily live in each others company but some won't.Having two dogs both of the same breed and sex could be heaing for disaster.They maybe fine while the pup is young,but as they mature it could be so different.

A stare from one to the other could be seen as a challenge and staffords will not back down to each other.

Have you thought about the future when both of these males are mature.Have you thought about if they started fighting,how you would deal with it.

You will need to supervise constantly,never ever under any circumstances leave them alone together.
I own two both different sexes,they are never left alone unsupervised together EVER.
They will if they start fighting,fight to the death,I have heard so many tales of Staffords left unsupervised,as they were great together only for the owner to return and have one dead dog and one very badly injured one.
You need to spot the signs before it even gets to the fighting stage,the slightest thing can trigger two males off,as I said before even a stare can be interpretated by the other as a challenge.

It's not pleasant and there is no easy answer to parting fighting dogs,especially Staffords,shouting at them will achieve little or nothing,alot of people with multi household bull breeds keep breaking sticks,some prefer to keep collars on them & choke them off.

Make them know in no uncertain terms that you are the pack leader,be firm & consistant.

I know people with Two males of this breed,some are fine some hate each other.
Those I consider to be very experienced within the breed do not let there males even play together with toys because things can and do turn around very quickly,one nip can result in a full blown fight.

This is probably not what you wanted to hear,but unless you are very experienced in the breed I would always advise against owning two males.
I am very surprised to hear of a Breeder homing a puppy where there is another established male on the premises,I would be very wary of doing this.

You need to set routines rules and boundries from the start.

In my opinion it has little to do with having a well socialised trained dog because two of the best trained and well socialised dogs of the same household can and do fight.
I have experienced it first hand with my two bitches many years ago,they were well trained and socialised.Every chance they got they wanted to start with each other.
It is also a well known fact that some (not all) Staffords will not tolerate other dogs.
I have a bitch here that was brought up in the same way as my dog,he is brilliant around other dogs,she isn't sadly but she is fine around Tyler.


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## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

My vet was talking to us about taking Logans balls off from about 5 months of age  He finally got done at 14 / 15 months old because of my knowledge of my breed. My breed is reccommended 12 months earliest for potential health reasons I won't bore your with 

Defo agree that dogs should be mature first and not babies, but think each breed should be looked at individually


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

gillieworm said:


> Defo agree that dogs should be mature first and not babies, but think each breed should be looked at individually


Not just breeds individually but each dog as an individual as well. I wouldn't want to neuter a nervous dog for example as it would more than likely make things worse.


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## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Not just breeds individually but each dog as an individual as well. I wouldn't want to neuter a nervous dog for example as it would more than likely make things worse.


My dog certainly became nervous of the vets after that op 

On a serious note, I totally agree


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

Agree Alan,
I would see how things work out between these two males before I would consider castrating.If there is any sign of trouble between them then I would talk to the vet and see what they recommended.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Not just breeds individually but each dog as an individual as well. I wouldn't want to neuter a nervous dog for example as it would more than likely make things worse.


is that just for males alan


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## Sgurr (Aug 24, 2008)

Hi,

I would think very very seriously before either neutering or breeding any dog. Many vets give 'neuter at six months' advice, others say do it later when the animal is fully grown. You need to see the whole picture and make your own mind up. There are positives such as eliminating the risk of testicular cancer and reducing the risk of mammary cancer. And then there are the negatives. Incontinence is a common problem with a speyed bitch and a castrated dog can become the target for the local males to mount. A male pup can be fertile from about six months and a female can conceive on her first season so you have to put that in the balance too. On the dominance issue, so far as I am aware, castrating sometimes is helpful and as often is not.
I have three dogs. One stud dog, one breeding bitch and one entire but not breeding bitch and as I've listed them, that's their rank in the pack, below the humans of course.
The male is not bothered to exert his rank and is very tolerant if the others try it on. But as soon as he draws the line, they back off immediately. Number two always makes sure number three gives her a respectful greeting coming into the room etc. Number three was so pleased when we had a pup with us up to 3 months old as she was no longer bottom of the heap. I feed them seperately as number two is a glutton. But when treats are handed out in the evening, it's one, two, three always so I reinforce the ranking they have sorted out. 
If you have two dogs, look at their behaviour and see if you can pick out the leader and then support that dog. You will not be being unfair to the lower ranked one, just making the position clear so challenge situations are mainly avoided.
Can't comment on Staffies but if you do have to separate two fighting dogs, go for the blunt end, and preferably two people to do it. Grab the back legs, even the tail, and pull away, then you can try to get a hand on the collar. I've only had to do it for real once (nasty big black lab, entire, attacked my ESS pup) and I don't want to repeat the experience - but it worked and I did not get bitten by the lab - the pup was shaken up but OK.

Sgurr


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

Sgurr said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would think very very seriously before either neutering or breeding any dog. Many vets give 'neuter at six months' advice, others say do it later when the animal is fully grown. You need to see the whole picture and make your own mind up. There are positives such as eliminating the risk of testicular cancer and reducing the risk of mammary cancer. And then there are the negatives. Incontinence is a common problem with a speyed bitch and a castrated dog can become the target for the local males to mount. A male pup can be fertile from about six months and a female can conceive on her first season so you have to put that in the balance too. On the dominance issue, so far as I am aware, castrating sometimes is helpful and as often is not.
> I have three dogs. One stud dog, one breeding bitch and one entire but not breeding bitch and as I've listed them, that's their rank in the pack, below the humans of course.
> ...


Good advice but I definatly would not recommend staffords are parted in the way described above.Staffords hold on and do not fight like other breeds.A serious amount of damage could be done to both dogs if your pulling or trying to pull apart two staffords whist their holding each other.


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## Sgurr (Aug 24, 2008)

Hi,

I did say I can't comment on Staffies and then went on to speak generally abut dogs.
But the good thing about a forum is it gives people with specific expertise the chance to add to general points.

Thanks Sallyanne,

Sgurr


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

Sgurr said:


> Hi,
> 
> I did say I can't comment on Staffies and then went on to speak generally abut dogs.
> But the good thing about a forum is it gives people with specific expertise the chance to add to general points.
> ...


That's fine 

We parted our's by choking them off,by grabbing the collars and twisting cutting off the air supply therefore making them let go.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

I have got 5 dogs and my staffie is defo the leader of the pack...she as only once bitten one of my cavs...she was told no...and i lifted her of as she was biting her neck but it was a one way fight as my little cav will not fight...but i think my staffie was making her point that she leeds the pack(as she never done it since)
but i must say i never ever leave my dogs all together when im not their.

I think 2 male staffie is not a good idea.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Hey Sgurr I'm surprised your boy is the leader of your little pack - you normally get one of the girls sorting out the others


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

I have also got to say why did you get a male staffie and not get a female instead as surely the person you got the pup from should of advised this.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

claire said:


> is that just for males alan


It's not gender specific.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> It's not gender specific.


we getting cassie spayed in november, because she is nervous it upsets her bein in season


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## Sgurr (Aug 24, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Hey Sgurr I'm surprised your boy is the leader of your little pack - you normally get one of the girls sorting out the others


He's the oldest, biggest and was here first but he's very laid back and doesn't have to keep proving his status. The only time he will submit to the top bitch is after they have mated and she is no longer interested but he is still keen. She's only receptive for about 36 hours and if she then says No he knows she means it. Back off or get bitten, so sensibly he backs off. Everything returns to normal very quickly afterwards.

When I got the bitch I thought she would be top dog but she never contested with him. She has the other bitch (their daughter) firmly under her paw though.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

Milo is male, neutered and always top dog! It's not very often he has to go to any lengths to prove it though.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

My bitch is dominant over Tyler,we did try to keep him has top dog but it didn't work like that,she showed her authority at around 8 months and he just let her,I think he prefers the quiet life


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

Baggio definitely has no aspirations to be top dog - if the girls start grumping amongst themselves he jumps up onto our knees out of the way (thinks he's a chihuahua! ) The bergies leave the leadership stuff to the border collies anyway - Evie is top dog at the moment but it will be interesting to see if she begins to defer to Quinn once he begins to mature ..........


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Baggio definitely has no aspirations to be top dog - if the girls start grumping amongst themselves he jumps up onto our knees out of the way (thinks he's a chihuahua! ) The bergies leave the leadership stuff to the border collies anyway - Evie is top dog at the moment but it will be interesting to see if she begins to defer to Quinn once he begins to mature ..........


I do wonder if Jayjay will challenge Milo when he's a bit older because he is a dominant little lad. A few boarding dogs have challenged Milo but he tends to just ignore them unless he actually see's them as a threat and then he puts them in their place. I forgot that we had a GSD bitch that was dominant over him but that's the only one.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> I do wonder if Jayjay will challenge Milo when he's a bit older because he is a dominant little lad. A few boarding dogs have challenged Milo but he tends to just ignore them unless he actually see's them as a threat and then he puts them in their place. I forgot that we had a GSD bitch that was dominant over him but that's the only one.


Hmm - you could be right, Jayjay may challenge Milo when he gets older. There's no way to second guess these things - either he will continue to defer to Milo cos that's what he's always done, or he will decide to challenge him - and if he does it will come down to their individual personalities as to what will happen next.


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