# Irresponsible??



## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

When I walk my dogs, I occasionally walk 1 off lead. (road/street walking)
I've never thought anything of it, I trust her 100%. She doesn't run off, wont step into the road unless I tell her it's OK and if we see another dog, I'll call her and she will come back so I can put her lead on.
Today I walked them, 1 off lead, and met another dog walker who said _"I was irresponsible to walk a dog of lead on the street. I might trust my dog, but they can change in a second."_
I honestly never thought about that.
How do you feel about dogs walking off lead on the streets?
If you saw it on a walk with your dog, would you be worried?

I've never had a problem, but today has got me wondering if walking off lead is OK


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

To be honest, I would never walk a dog off lead near a road no matter how well trained or how much I trusted them.
What if a firework went off and spooked your dog? What if another dog came by and attacked your dog? What if a car back fired and scared your dog? What if a cat/rat/squirrel ran in front of your dog - could you honestly say that your dog would remain right by you if any of the above happened?

Just my opinion and although my dogs are good, they are always on lead if we are on a pavement or near a road.....


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

mrsimpson85 said:


> When I walk my dogs, I occasionally walk 1 off lead. (road/street walking)
> I've never thought anything of it, I trust her 100%. She doesn't run off, wont step into the road unless I tell her it's OK and if we see another dog, I'll call her and she will come back so I can put her lead on.
> Today I walked them, 1 off lead, and met another dog walker who said _"I was irresponsible to walk a dog of lead on the street. I might trust my dog, but they can change in a second."_
> I honestly never thought about that.
> ...


My oh walks hooch offlead on street walks no problems, he walks right beside him dosnt run up to other dogs.

No i dont think its irresponsible you know your dog better than this silly women, she should mind her own business nothing too do with her imo.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

It's illegal


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Offlead street walking is NEVER ok, in my opinion. I think it's hugely irresponsible, and to be honest - just plain daft, stupid and dangerous. 

I'd trust two of mine enough to walk to heel offlead down the side of a motorway - yet they're still on lead even when walking down even the quietest of roads - dogs and roads just don't mix - dogs that are spooked by something don't listen to commands, and they could just bolt into the road with no warning. I can't understand why on earth anyone would want to have a dog offlead walking along a road? 

I'm all for dogs going offlead - I think it's hugely important - but jeez, never near a road. Only parks, fields, woods, beaches etc.

It&#8217;s just not worth the risk &#8211; what trouble is it to clip a lead to their collar? Something so simple, yet could be the difference between life and death.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Hiya 

I personally wouldn't, as mine have no road sense, and if they seen a cat they would be off. 
I wouldnt say it is irresponsible, if you are 100 percent sure your dog wouldn't run off, no matter what the situation, well that says great training and control.
Maybe the woman is jealous


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

If I ran over a dog because it was off lead along the street I would never forgive myself. 

It's not fair to put drivers in that position.


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## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

I ALWAYS have grizz on a liad when path walking even on quiet roads, i trust him with my life but yet as said before dogs can be spooked so easily.

It only takes a cat, something being blown by the wind, a fox etc etc and its all too easy for dogs to get hit by cars, i know if i let grizz offlead and for whatever reason something happened i couldnt forgive myself.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

We had a spaniel who walked better offlead than she did onleadinfact when we got her i dont think she had ever been on a lead (working dog) but i always put a lead on her to take her down the high street for a walk along the river.

One day we were waiting to cross and she was sat beside me, i went to go but changed my mind, she read my intial leg motion and went and i just managed to hoik her back in time using her lead. Hate to think what would have happened if she had been unleashed, it would have been totally my fault 

Accidents do happen but only an individual owner can acurately calculate the risks.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

I wouldnt let either of mine offlead no matter how well behaved they were..it takes one tiny thing to distract them..then they could he run over or worse cause a huge accident and kill a whole family...might sound saft but it could quite easily happen.


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## wyntersmum (Jul 31, 2011)

with my old dog id had him from a puppy and most of the time had him off lead unless in a built up area where i knew he would get spooked. but one day i was on a job experience from college and my dad had gone out to the car for something. we lived in a quiet street and there was a front garden and a grassed area at the front he was sniffing and minding his own bussines when he saw a white cat that he hated and befor my dad could do anything he ran straight across the road right infront of a small bus. he lived luckerly but he broke his jaw and his front left leg he was very lucky it just takes a second and it could be all over but its all down to the individual and if you trust your dog. i did but anything can change.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

There was a similar thread not long ago. Yes I do think it's irresponsible personally. While you may trust your dog 100%, things can and do happen.

I just think it's a risk that doesn't need to be taken.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

JennyClifford said:


> It's illegal


No it isn't, not if the dog stays on the pavement.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> No it isn't, not if the dog stays on the pavement.


Does the dog know that though


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> No it isn't, not if the dog stays on the pavement.


Road Traffic Act 1988

A person who causes or permits a dog to be on a designated road without the dog being held on a lead is guilty of an offence.

Most people would have to cross a road and that would be illegal


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

My dogs are always on lead near roads. Both will walk to heel off lead, but it's not worth the risk. They can get spooked by noises, see a cat or something (I know I can't trust Ziggy around footballs).

It's not just your dog you're risking, but damage that might be caused to a car, for example, if they ran into the road and caused it to crash, and any injuries to the occupants. Is your insurance so good you can risk that?


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

JennyClifford said:


> Road Traffic Act 1988
> 
> A person who causes or permits a dog to be on a designated road without the dog being held on a lead is guilty of an offence.


That's the roadway, not the pavement. Crossing the road, or setting one paw on it, would be illegal. Theoretically you could walk miles along a pavement without having to cross a road. The area I moved from last year had a 4 mile walk I often did, no road crossings, all on pavement.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

I dnt think its irresponsible, stupid or whatever else anyone thinks and think its up to the individual.

I wouldnt walk stan or hooch offlead because im not confident enough that they would respond too me can tell it when we walk offlead in the fields they respond much better too the oh. 

my oh has had hooch for 5 years, he walks him offlead not all the time but some of the time, but hooch pays no attention what so ever too other dogs cats people etc, no noises spooke him etc his attention is 100% on my oh. 

I think at the end of the day its your dog if u are happy walking it off lead no one should tell you what you should do its your dog not theres.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Did it with Barney, he spent 98% of the time off lead and yes, I knew he woulden't run off. 

I had fireworks go off, several cars beep, backfire, animals run in frount of him, people call him from the other side and even had tennis balls thrown into the road. Not once did he flinch or react, he would never cross unless I said it was ok.

With Maya? hell no, she'd be dead. I'v walked her offlead at night but i'll always hold her collar when crossing over as i feel she's too slow and may gt run over but if it's a busy day then I just don't trust her.

Each person knows their dog.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> I dnt think its irresponsible, stupid or whatever else anyone thinks and think its up to the individual.
> 
> I wouldnt walk stan or hooch offlead because im not confident enough that they would respond too me can tell it when we walk offlead in the fields they respond much better too the oh.
> 
> ...


Your OH may trust Hooch implicitly but can he trust every single other road user out there?! That's the stupid thing about it, why not just pop the lead on! Doesn't make any difference!


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

bearcub said:


> Your OH may trust Hooch implicitly but can he trust every single other road user out there?! That's the stupid thing about it, why not just pop the lead on! Doesn't make any difference!


And why does he need too trust them, hooch is the one he needs the attention off 100% and he has that, someone could through a nice big juicy bone at the side of hooch n he wouldnt stop and leave my ohs side. 
And he does trust him 100%.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

mrsimpson85 said:


> When I walk my dogs, I occasionally walk 1 off lead. (road/street walking)
> I've never thought anything of it, I trust her 100%. She doesn't run off, wont step into the road unless I tell her it's OK and if we see another dog, I'll call her and she will come back so I can put her lead on.
> Today I walked them, 1 off lead, and met another dog walker who said _"I was irresponsible to walk a dog of lead on the street. I might trust my dog, but they can change in a second."_
> I honestly never thought about that.
> ...


I would be worried that something - and that could be anything , like a car backfiring - could cause them to bolt!
Also I believe it is against the law to allow a dog out of control on the public highway - in theis case the path!
BUT!! that said - congratulations for having such a well trained dog - sounds like they are a credit to you! WISH I had the confidence in mine that you do in yours.
DT
Persoanlly I would


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> I dnt think its irresponsible, stupid or whatever else anyone thinks and think its up to the individual.
> 
> I wouldnt walk stan or hooch offlead because im not confident enough that they would respond too me can tell it when we walk offlead in the fields they respond much better too the oh.
> 
> ...


What's to gain from having him offlead around a road? : I genuinely don't get it? They can't run around, they can only walk by your side, so why not just clip a lead on them? Is it an image thing? Not being arsey I just do not for the life of me understand the logic behind someone who thinks its ok to have a dog - an ANIMAL with it's own mind - offlead around roads.

How would you (or your OH) feel if, god forbid, Hooch acted out of character (it does happen) - say he stood on a bit of glass or was stung by a wasp, and was in pain, and darted across the road infront of a car? Killing himself and the driver? All because a lead hadn't simply been clipped to his collar - or even a slip popped around his neck?

I couldn't live with myself if that happened to me. Could you?

This all may sound very dramatic but it can and DOES happen.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

tbh,ive walked albert off lead by roads,im confident about him,however ive stopped doing it....just not worth the risk however small!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

The way i see it is ..no matter how well you know the dog or how much you trust it people who walk dogs off lead are taking a huge risk! When accidents happen the owners will say 'hes never done anything like that before'.
same i think with dog attacks...owners get too complacent and forget that the cute fluffy thing they own is capable of doing some serious damage! and defending poor decisions by saying 'hes never done anything like that before'


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> And why does he need too trust them, hooch is the one he needs the attention off 100% and he has that, someone could through a nice big juicy bone at the side of hooch n he wouldnt stop and leave my ohs side.
> And he does trust him 100%.


But can't see the issue with having a lead on though! What difference does it make?

And you can't account for everything that could happen with other road users, I trust myself to walk along the pavement but I am still putting myself at danger because there are other road users out there!


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

SixStar said:


> What's to gain from having him offlead around a road? : I genuinely don't get it? They can't run around, they can only walk by your side, so why not just clip a lead on them? Is it an image thing? Not being arsey I just do not for the life of me understand the logic behind someone who thinks its ok to have a dog - an ANIMAL with it's own mind - offlead around roads.
> 
> How would you (or your OH) feel if, god forbid, Hooch acted out of character (it does happen) - say he stood on a bit of glass or was stung by a wasp, and was in pain, and darted across the road infront of a car? Killing himself and the driver? All because a lead hadn't simply been clipped to his collar - or even a slip popped around his neck?
> 
> ...


i think for me it feels nice,me and my dog walking together,like a sort of trust thing......nt sure if im making sense...i just get a nice feeling walking side by side with my dog off lead.....however,i dont do it ond roads anymore.


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## Linden_Tree (Jan 6, 2011)

As a driver, it makes me very nervous to go past a dog not on a lead. I do not know how well trained the dog is, I do not know if the dog is going to step in front of my car or not, and that puts me on edge. There have been a couple of instances where i have thought a dog is going to cross without warning, and i've hit the brakes, or swerved. That could have gotten me killed, or some other innocent killed, and for what? 

It's just arrogance that makes people believe they can 100% verbally control a living creature. It's also a lack of respect for road users and pedestrians.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

SixStar said:


> What's to gain from having him offlead around a road? : I genuinely don't get it? They can't run around, they can only walk by your side, so why not just clip a lead on them? Is it an image thing? Not being arsey I just do not for the life of me understand the logic behind someone who thinks its ok to have a dog - an ANIMAL with it's own mind - offlead around roads.
> 
> How would you (or your OH) feel if, god forbid, Hooch acted out of character (it does happen) - say he stood on a bit of glass or was stung by a wasp, and was in pain, and darted across the road infront of a car? Killing himself and the driver? All because a lead hadn't simply been clipped to his collar - or even a slip popped around his neck?
> 
> ...


My oh knows hooch 100% im sorry but he is my ohs dog and he can walk him how he pleases, no its not an image thing!!!!.

My oh has 100% control over hooch he is an extremely well trainned dog and my oh has put countless amount of time in trainning him too the level he is at since ive met the h stanlie has improved s much its unbelievable.

It may not be your cup of tea too walk a dog off lead and thats your oppinion and is up too you, but its not your place too say that we should not do so or anyone else for that matter.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

When I've got my mum's dogs here as well, I don't need to put Harry the Golden Retriever on a lead as he walks by my side wherever we are... however! his safety is my first consideration, so I just attach his lead to my belt so I'm not holding 3 dogs on the lead. Good compromise I think.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

albert 1970 said:


> i think for me it feels nice,me and my dog walking together,like a sort of trust thing......nt sure if im making sense...i just get a nice feeling walking side by side with my dog off lead.....however,i dont do it ond roads anymore.


I understand what you're saying - I love that feeling - just me, the dogs, no leads, wandering along enjoying each others company - me and my boys. It's how I start my day everyday, and I adore it.

However, there's a place for that - and roads certainly aren't that place. We're out in the sticks, our house leads to fields and we don't need leads for any part of our daily route (although I always have slips with me).

So glad to hear you don't walk Albert offlead on roads anymore :thumbup:


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> My oh knows hooch 100% im sorry but he is my ohs dog and he can walk him how he pleases, no its not an image thing!!!!.
> 
> My oh has 100% control over hooch he is an extremely well trainned dog and my oh has put countless amount of time in trainning him too the level he is at since ive met the h stanlie has improved s much its unbelievable.
> 
> It may not be your cup of tea too walk a dog off lead and thats your oppinion and is up too you, but its not your place too say that we should not do so or anyone else for that matter.


In your first post you did ask people opinion though I think


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

suewhite said:


> In your first post you did ask people opinion though I think


Ummm nope i believe i didnt and the op of this thread did.


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## Gragface (Oct 8, 2011)

Personally I do think its irresponsible and not worth the risk.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

SixStar said:


> I understand what you're saying - I love that feeling - just me, the dogs, no leads, wandering along enjoying each others company - me and my boys. It's how I start my day everyday, and I adore it.
> 
> However, there's a place for that - and roads certainly aren't that place. We're out in the sticks, our house leads to fields and we don't need leads for any part of our daily route (although I always have slips with me).
> 
> So glad to hear you don't walk Albert offlead on roads anymore :thumbup:


we all know how precious our dogs are to us,and without being patronising to the op...its just not worth the risk!:thumbup:


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## lucyandsandy (Apr 7, 2011)

I see a few people walking there dogs offlead along the streets here and tbh I can't stand it. I know they know their dogs etc but what if something was to happen imagine how the owner and other people involved would feel.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> My oh knows hooch 100% im sorry but he is my ohs dog and he can walk him how he pleases, no its not an image thing!!!!.
> 
> My oh has 100% control over hooch he is an extremely well trainned dog and my oh has put countless amount of time in trainning him too the level he is at since ive met the h stanlie has improved s much its unbelievable.
> 
> It may not be your cup of tea too walk a dog off lead and thats your oppinion and is up too you, but its not your place too say that we should not do so or anyone else for that matter.


:mad2:

Yep, he's your (or your OHs, whatever) dog - up to you what you do with him.

No, I don't like it because I don't like dogs lives being needlessly put at risk. Nobody has 100% control over any dog - they're animals at the end of the day, they think for themselves and can and do act out of character.

I'll stick with leads for my guys on roads - I love them more than to risk them ending up underneath some wheels.

Its not just your dog youre putting at risk  like I say, could you live with yourself if your dog, by bolting in front of a car, killed the driver of said car? Or all the passengers, kids?

What IS the issue with simply popping a lead on the dog? Please answer that? What IS to gain from having him offlead by roads.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Ummm nope i believe i didnt and the op of this thread did.


Sorry put it down to not putting my brain in gear


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## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

so many reply's in such a short time!
I will say that on main/busy roads she is on a lead. She has had fireworks, cats, squirrels, ect and she might be curious about them, maybe want to chase, but doesn't.
She wont even think about stepping into the road until I say it's ok, unless she's on lead and then just goes where she wants.
She is, the majority of the time, walked on lead, but off lead works for me sometimes. 
Reading the reply, Dogs can decide to do what they want to do, when they want to, but I know my dog wont run off, maybe ignorance, maybe too trusting, but thats the way I feel.

Thanks for all the replies though, I will probably walk her on lead more often, but not all the time.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

I don't get this whole, "I trust my dog 100%"... I mean, I trust myself 100%, but it doesn't mean that I'm not at risk of being knocked down by a car! 

Really simple logic.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

SixStar said:


> :mad2:
> 
> Yep, he's your (or your OHs, whatever) dog - up to you what you do with him.
> 
> ...


Like how your basically saying that we do not love our dogs..

Seriously.... I i dont have too answer anything too you, they are our dogs and we will walk them how we please.

We love are boys too pieces and your bang out of order saying that we basically dont because my oh walks hooch offlead at times.

Your intitled too your opinion but you should pick how you say things better.


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

mrsimpson85 said:


> t
> How do you feel about dogs walking off lead on the streets?
> If you saw it on a walk with your dog, would you be worried?
> 
> I've never had a problem, but today has got me wondering if walking off lead is OK


I think you're putting your dog at risk - it's something that I just wouldn't do. One of my dog's litter brothers was killed by a big truck whilst off lead and as I was driving, indicated to turn, a pedestrian actually sent her off lead dog across the road I was turning into. Totally her fault, fortunately I was able to stop in time - my own dog at the time was thrown off the back seat onto the floor (didn't have harnesses or cages at the time). Owner had the cheek to tell the dog off! I wound the window down and told her off... it was totally her fault, but if the dog had been on a lead this wouldn't have happened. There are too many 'what ifs' to even contemplate off lead road walking - be safe, keep your dog on a lead unless it's safe, and road walking for me just isn't safe.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> Like how your basically saying that we do not love our dogs..
> 
> Seriously.... I i dont have too answer anything too you, they are our dogs and we will walk them how we please.
> 
> ...


The thing is - yes, I know you love your dogs, you wouldn't be here if you didn't - so why risk their lives? 

I don't have any problem with dogs being offlead - it's them being offlead near roads that I have a problem with.

It's up to the individual owner what risks they want to take with their dog (whether I understand why those risks are taken is a different matter) - but what really REALLY makes me cross is how people endanger others too - you seem to be ignoring the fact that your dog, offlead by a road, could potentially kill a whole entire family travelling in a car, other pedestrians if the car swerved etc.

You think I'm bang out of order for saying this - well I think YOU are bang out of order for risking lives for the sake of having a dog offlead near a damn road - for no reason at all. Frankly, I think it's despicable, and I have nothing more to say on the matter.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

Bye laws need to be checked.

South Ribble Council have introduced a Bye Law to give the council powers to prosecute dog owners for failing to have their dogs on leads on pavements and roads. Many fixed penalty notices of £75 have already been handed out since April 2011.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

beris said:


> Bye laws need to be checked.
> 
> South Ribble Council have introduced a Bye Law to give the council powers to prosecute dog owners for failing to have their dogs on leads on pavements and roads. Many fixed penalty notices of £75 have already been handed out since April 2011.


Thats what I said

Well nearly! it is actually a criminal offence to allow an out of control dog onto the highway - a dog off lead is NOT under control


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

beris said:


> Bye laws need to be checked.
> 
> South Ribble Council have introduced a Bye Law to give the council powers to prosecute dog owners for failing to have their dogs on leads on pavements and roads. Many fixed penalty notices of £75 have already been handed out since April 2011.


Our council is the same I think alot have that Bye Law now


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

SixStar said:


> The thing is - yes, I know you love your dogs, you wouldn't be here if you didn't - so why risk their lives?
> 
> I don't have any problem with dogs being offlead - it's them being offlead near roads that I have a problem with.
> 
> ...


And thats your opinion i think its pretty despicable for someone too force their views because they think they are right and thats it end off.
Your intitled to your view but dont judge me because what we do is different.

Hooch is 100% focused on my oh he dose not take his attention off him for a second, if he did do you think my oh would walk him offlead no i dont bloody think so. our dogs are our lives.

If we were irresponsible we would allow stan too do it who could but would problie be distracted by a dog or something so we do not allow him too and hes on lead.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

DT said:


> Thats what I said


Sorry I must have missed your post.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

It is also a matter of respecting other people using the pavements especially those with small children and those who have their dogs on leads. I have come across a bloke who regularly walks a beautiful staffie pup off lead. Good for him he has great control over a well behaved dog but you can never trust circumstances 100% and I always hope that I never bump into him when I have my 2 dogs onlead. I have chatted to him and he has said that his dog is 100% non aggressive but it is only 8 months old, how does he know how its reactions may change as the dog matures? I also used to bump in to a bloke who regularly walked 2 well behaved rotties off lead. Apart from the fact he used to let them walk ahead of him and behind him and never cleaned up their cr*p :mad2:I was annoyed because I had to walk my 2 year old son past them and an elderly sick and defenceless GSD.


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## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

this thread seems to be starting some arguments.
Sorry.
I do think every 1 does what they think is best for there pets, some people have house cats because they think it's safer to keep them indoors, I've got a cat who only comes home for food. It doesn't mean I love her less.
Walking a dog on-lead or off lead doesn't mean I love them less. It's just a choice I make.
There are risks off lead, but if I think it's OK for my dog, is that really a problem?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

No I don't think that dogs should be off lead in the street. 

For many reasons, the main one being for the welfare of the dog. 

Dogs are animals and not machines. You cannot guarantee a dogs reaction and therefore u r taking a risk with their safety. 

I also think that off lead dogs can be intimidating
You expect it in the park, but not walking down the street. 

I feel very strongly about this and feel that it should be a legal requirement for all dogs to be on a lead apart from in designated places.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

There is a law against walking dogs off lead...do people think its ok to break the law?


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

The thing I don't understand is that good dog owners do so many things to keep their dogs safe - they wear tags, are microchipped, have vaccinations, wear car harnesses or go in crates, are fed good food, socialised and trained all to help them live a long and happy life. But then they're walked off lead by a road where their life is in mortal peril! 

Your dog hasn't reacted to fireworks, cats, squirrels, other dogs, back-firing cars.......YET. How do you know that the next time an aggressive dog comes charging at him it's not going to be the one time he runs, and it's not going to be the one time that a car happens to be coming down that quiet road???

Is it REALLY worth risking your dog's life over a lead?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

mrsimpson85 said:


> this thread seems to be starting some arguments.
> Sorry.
> I do think every 1 does what they think is best for there pets, some people have house cats because they think it's safer to keep them indoors, I've got a cat who only comes home for food. It doesn't mean I love her less.
> Walking a dog on-lead or off lead doesn't mean I love them less. It's just a choice I make.
> There are risks off lead, but if I think it's OK for my dog, is that really a problem?


i walk my off lead! BUT on private land - or at the very least in safe areas - I either drive them there or walk them on the lead.
As I have said before it is an offence to allow any dog onto the highway that is not under control, an off lead dog is NOT under control.
I do however congratulate you again on having such well trained dogs - they must be a creidt to you.
DT


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## Linden_Tree (Jan 6, 2011)

No one has 100% control over a dog. It's just not possible. 

After living with chickens for 9 years, one of my hounds turned around and attacked and killed two. Before that incidence, id have said that i trusted him 100%, he was with them on and off all day, everyday, without even a slight glance. But there is a first time for everything, and where the potential fallout could be catastrophic and potentially fatal for numerous parties, then surely common sense would dictate that a dog should be placed on a loose leash at least?

If you don't have control to begin with, you can't gain control should something go wrong.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

mrsimpson85 said:


> There are risks off lead, but if I think it's OK for my dog, is that really a problem?


Yes as I said it may be OK for you and your dog but what about consideration for other road/pavement users?


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

mrsimpson85 said:


> when i walk my dogs, i occasionally walk 1 off lead. (road/street walking)
> i've never thought anything of it, i trust her 100%. She doesn't run off, wont step into the road unless i tell her it's ok and if we see another dog, i'll call her and she will come back so i can put her lead on.
> Today i walked them, 1 off lead, and met another dog walker who said _"i was irresponsible to walk a dog of lead on the street. I might trust my dog, but they can change in a second."_
> i honestly never thought about that.
> ...


no ........................its not its illegal


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

I agree that it is a lovely feeling to have the dogs offlead walking along beside you- in a field, park etc. But I am now very against walking dogs offlead on the footpath... Too many people do walk their dogs off lead for appearances, and they are ruining it for the rest!

When missy (YT) was a puppy I was standing waiting to cross the road with her (on her harness and lead) and a woman and her off lead dog were coming up a few metres behind us. Missy was standing perfectly by my side, but a car hit the horn driving by and missy yelled and jumped back, and the other woman's dog ran straight for us. It actually lifted missy up and was about to shake when I was able to pull her back into my arms and knee the dog to get it to back off (and I still feel bad for having to do that!) and it ran back to the owner. I couldn't speak I was so scared for missy- I was checking her for puntures under her coat (it was getting dark so she was wearing her raincoat) and as she walked past the woman just looked up and said something to the affect of 'he's never done that before- maybe you shouldn't dress your dog up and you wouldnt have that problem' like it was My fault!
So any time I see an off lead dog i dont know I pull whoever I have with me straight into my arms and walk as fast as possible past the dog, and a fair few times they have a little too much attention to my girls.

So to get to my point... I'm sure none of the dogs owned by any of yourselves would do that, but a lot of people have had bad experiences with off lead dogs not behaving- or being spooked into bad behaviour, but I don't see why you couldn't (not you personally) just pop a lead on it and clip the lead to your belt- it won't make any difference to your walk, bur would give others peace of mind.


Also, the danger to drivers has also been mentioned; one day when my friends uncle was out on his motorbike, a collie got spooked by a bird taking off and ran on the road, so he obviously swerved to miss it; he is now paralysed from the neck down. And that dog had never done that Ever before!' either.


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## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> Yes as I said it may be OK for you and your dog but what about consideration for other road/pavement users?


surely it's the same in a park, field or woods? some people don't like dogs, on or off lead. as i said before, she wont step into the road until I say it's OK.
does that mean they should be kept on lead everywhere just incase people dont like dogs?


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## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

McKenzie said:


> The thing I don't understand is that good dog owners do so many things to keep their dogs safe - they wear tags, are microchipped, have vaccinations, wear car harnesses or go in crates, are fed good food, socialised and trained all to help them live a long and happy life. But then they're walked off lead by a road where their life is in mortal peril!
> 
> Your dog hasn't reacted to fireworks, cats, squirrels, other dogs, back-firing cars.......YET. How do you know that the next time an aggressive dog comes charging at him it's not going to be the one time he runs, and it's not going to be the one time that a car happens to be coming down that quiet road???
> 
> Is it REALLY worth risking your dog's life over a lead?


Well said - completely agree - i would everything, anything, go above and beyond to protect grizz and something as simple as a lead does just that, could save his - mine and others lives.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Irresponsible Yes.

The thing that worries me about loose dogs is not everyone likes dogs, some are frightened of them. To see a loose dog coming towards you when you are frightened of them can be dangerous, I've had people step into the road when I'm walking Dillon who is always on a lead, if he was loose I dread to think how they may have reacted to him. It does not matter how big/small and well behaved your dog is, if someone has a fear it doesn't make any difference.


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## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

I just want to say, off subject, but this is my
* 100th post *


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## Linden_Tree (Jan 6, 2011)

mrsimpson85 said:


> surely it's the same in a park, field or woods? some people don't like dogs, on or off lead. as i said before, she wont step into the road until I say it's OK.
> does that mean they should be kept on lead everywhere just incase people dont like dogs?


A pavement has a far higher level of foot traffic, and the space to move out of the way is far smaller than in a park or woodland.
Not to mention the fact that most people going about their day to day business, do not expect to be confronted with an off lead dog. In a park or the countryside, i'd say it's something most people take into consideration and accept the fact that they will come across such situations.

I think some people put far too much faith in their training abilities, and their dogs level of obedience.


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## Gragface (Oct 8, 2011)

mrsimpson85 said:


> as i said before, she wont step into the road until I say it's OK.


What if 'you' make a mistake? I dont mean to sound rude, just that people can get distracted as well as dogs.


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

ill jump in with my 2 pence worth!

mine are on lead on roads, i know they'd walk at my side but theres a few reason i don't



*people could have a phobia/fear of them yes that person could cross the road (but why should they especially if they live on that road!) but the sight of an offlead on a street could panic them. on a field anyone expects them offlead so common sense would make them avoid it so why would i put someone in a position that could really upset them for own wants. 

*they gain nothing from it and walk at same distance they would as they were on lead. pointless. 

*i trust them totally. i do not trust others. there could be some food they've scent of (doubt it but you never know) and they could shoot of

*Something could spook them. 

If any of the above happened or for some other reason they 'forgot' all their training for a second and one of the boys ran into the road, a car swerved and someone or my boy was seriously hurt i could never forgive myself.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

I'd happily walk my dogs off lead in most situations, ( Not of course the two youngsters ) But on a road? I dont think so, there are so many things that might distact them, better,I think to be safe than sorry.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

There is a time and place to walk dogs off lead, down streets is NOT one of them. It's illegal, dangerous, irresponsible and down right thoughtless. AND, no dog, no dog is 100% reliable. 

If your dog walks so well off the lead beside you, then what is the problem of attaching a lead to the collar and holding the other end of it? Everyone this way is safe, drivers, dogs and general members of the public. Please walk your dog on a lead in the street, it takes one car to squash a dog and that driver has to live with that knowledge that he/she ran over a dog, through no fault of their own. Not something I would like to live with.

Please keep your dog safe and attach a lead.:thumbup:


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

mrsimpson85 said:


> When I walk my dogs, I occasionally walk 1 off lead. (road/street walking)
> I've never thought anything of it, I trust her 100%. She doesn't run off, wont step into the road unless I tell her it's OK and if we see another dog, I'll call her and she will come back so I can put her lead on.
> K


Yeah, I used to think that. Then one day a guy ran out of a doorway, my dog jumped out of his way, into the road. A car managed to brake so she wasn`t killed but the car behind smacked into the first car. 
It was only luck and seatbelts that prevented someone getting hurt or killed. 
Now I don`t take chances. It may not just be the dog that gets hurt or killed.


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## WarFlyball (Aug 15, 2008)

My dogs are always on leads anywhere near roads for the reasons people have already outlined and dogs on a lead unless in safe environments away from traffic is something I feel strongly about. Something I also consider a worry when I see people walking dogs off lead by roads no matter how well behaved and under control they are is what if a driver lost control and mounted the curb. With a lead at least if you see it happening you can pull the dog out of the path. It may be a very unlikely freak occurance but we live in a 30 zone and it didn't stop a driver who lives just a few doors down mounting the curb, plowing into 3 parked cars just outside are house and writing them all off as well as his own. Had someone been walking along there with a dog it could have been very badly hurt if they didn't manage to get it out of the way in time.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

If you check the dog control orders in Various areas of South East London you will find there is a £1000 fine for having your dog off lead in any area other than "dog friendly parks"


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

I regularly walk my dad's dog when I go home once a week and on occasions I will walk her off lead on the way back from the park as its a dead end road so hardly any cars, but I don't do it on busy roads.

I understand what people are saying that you never know what may spook them but like the original owner of this thread said they trust there dog 100% to not react to anything that comes there way and yes you never know something could accidently one day spook them for the first time in x amount of years but to me its the same as me geting hit by a bus tomorrow. I enjoy the freedom and nice feeling of having her off the lead, if I see another person coming towards me I always stop and have her sit to wait until they go past to reassure that person.

yes its a potential risk that the dog may run in front of a car, but where the parks are where my dad is if she got spooked or went for a cat she'd end up running in the road anyway (not that she ever would as I also trust her 100%)

Not meant to offend anyone, just putting my two pence in the 'for' side of the arguement :thumbup:


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

Livesey said:


> yes you never know something could accidently one day spook them for the first time in x amount of years but to me its the same as me geting hit by a bus tomorrow.


You can't do anything to prevent being hit by a bus tomorrow. You CAN do something to stop your dog running onto the road if it gets spooked.


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## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

beris said:


> If you check the dog control orders in Various areas of South East London you will find there is a £1000 fine for having your dog off lead in any area other than "dog friendly parks"


Thanks, just looked it up and you're right
Lewisham Council - Your dog and the law
I didn't know that. All ways on lead from now on. (mostly)
Thanks


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> You can't do anything to prevent being hit by a bus tomorrow. You CAN do something to stop your dog running onto the road if it gets spooked.


I do do something to stop my dog being spooked, she is fully under control when walked on or off the lead. I do see where you're coming from but how many mothers of children don't have full control of there children when they walk along the pavement. I have never swerved for a dog running across the road but have swerved many times for children. Besides what's to say you're dog gets spooked on the lead and the lead gets whipped out of your hand or the dog spooks into the road from the pavement with the lead on into an oncoming car, just as likely with or without a lead

If you know you're dog you can 'what if' all day long, a very circular arguement. I enjoy discussions like this no right or wrong answer.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

Livesey said:


> I do do something to stop my dog being spooked, she is fully under control when walked on or off the lead. I do see where you're coming from but how many mothers of children don't have full control of there children when they walk along the pavement. I have never swerved for a dog running across the road but have swerved many times for children. Besides what's to say you're dog gets spooked on the lead and the lead gets whipped out of your hand or the dog spooks into the road from the pavement with the lead on into an oncoming car, just as likely with or without a lead
> 
> If you know you're dog you can 'what if' all day long, a very circular arguement. I enjoy discussions like this no right or wrong answer.


Sorry to disagree, "no right or wrong answer", but there is an answer "The Law"


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

beris said:


> Sorry to disagree, "no right or wrong answer", but there is an answer "The Law"


indeed you are right of course and i'm not debating the law, but we are debating what people think of it, not the legalities otherwise this would be over in about 5 replies lol


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

Livesey said:


> I do do something to stop my dog being spooked, she is fully under control when walked on or off the lead. I do see where you're coming from but how many mothers of children don't have full control of there children when they walk along the pavement. I have never swerved for a dog running across the road but have swerved many times for children. Besides what's to say you're dog gets spooked on the lead and the lead gets whipped out of your hand or the dog spooks into the road from the pavement with the lead on into an oncoming car, just as likely with or without a lead
> 
> If you know you're dog you can 'what if' all day long, a very circular arguement. I enjoy discussions like this no right or wrong answer.


Totally agree with the children thing...but of course that's a whole other discussion. If I had children they'd be on lead by the street too 

I know that the lead could be whisked out of you hand if the dog bolted, but at least there's more of a chance that you could stop him than if there's no lead when you have no chance.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Is it an image thing?


I've come to the conclusion that it's an ego/arrogance thing.
A way of showing off what a well trained dog they have.
I walk all dogs off lead all the time EXCEPT on the road. I don't see what the problem is if you have a well trained dog anyway - mine walk to heel equally well whether off or on lead - holding a lead (or a few leads) makes no difference whatsoever, so why would I a) break the law b) worry others (ie drivers and pedestians) c) have the arrogance to test my dogs like that by walking them off lead on the road/pavement?
There are plenty of ways in which people can show off their well trained dogs that don't put their dogs or other road users at risk.
As the saying goes - pride comes before a fall.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

mrsimpson85 said:


> When I walk my dogs, I occasionally walk 1 off lead. (road/street walking)
> I've never thought anything of it, I trust her 100%. She doesn't run off, wont step into the road unless I tell her it's OK and if we see another dog, I'll call her and she will come back so I can put her lead on.
> Today I walked them, 1 off lead, and met another dog walker who said _"I was irresponsible to walk a dog of lead on the street. I might trust my dog, but they can change in a second."_
> I honestly never thought about that.
> ...


i think you know your dog better than any stranger in the street. ive seen lots of people who walk thier dogs off lead everywhere 
personally i am a bit of a worrier though and wouldnt do it, anything could happen, she could get a fright and run in the road, could chase a bird could spot another dog across the road and run for it, even if they dont normally one day she could. its just the what if factor that would worry me.


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

For the law thing, everyone breaks the law at some point (im sure they'll be someone on here that says they haven't ) but who hasn't gone 31 in a 30 speed for example. but anyway....

I know some people feel quite strongly about it but I do find it quite rude to pressume that its an ego/arrogance think. On the occasion that she has been walked off the lead on the pavement it is not to show off to other people. 

I have only just got on this forum and I don't want to get into this sort of arguement this early on so i'm going to leave this thread well alone as I'm starting to feel a little offended even though I thought this was a discussion with both sides being able to voice nicely what they felt about it.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

i don't see a point in having them off lead in streets. we have lady that deos nearby, her dog is old, slow & dumpy, however many times it's stopped to sniff & she's walked a foot ahead. ive driven out the street, seeing her & not the dog, it makes me nervous...unnecessarily
daft just daft


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> I enjoy the freedom and nice feeling of having her off the lead,





> i think for me it feels nice,me and my dog walking together,like a sort of trust thing......





> She is, the majority of the time, walked on lead, but off lead works for me sometimes.


In other words you're doing for YOUR benefit (it makes you feel good) rather than the benefit of the dog or other road users!


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> but I do find it quite rude to pressume that its an ego/arrogance think


You said in your own words you do it because it makes you feel good - in other words, an ego boost!


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> In other words you're doing for YOUR benefit (it makes you feel good) rather than the benefit of the dog or other road users!


Okay I was trying to be nice, and I as said i'm a newbie on this forum and I must of made the mistake of thinking that this forum was a nice forum where debates about our opinions were okay, obviously I was wrong.

How many things do we do that are for our benefit? dogs in crates is not always seen as a benefit for the dog but to the owner, harnesses are seen as a benefit to the owner not neccesarily the dog etc etc. Enjoying the feeling of having a dog off lead by my side is not ego or aroggance for me, it can be confused with confidence.

Its your opinion but there is no need to get rude about it.


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## Gragface (Oct 8, 2011)

Livesey said:


> Okay I was trying to be nice, and I as said i'm a newbie on this forum and I must of made the mistake of thinking that this forum was a nice forum where debates about our opinions were okay, obviously I was wrong.
> 
> How many things do we do that are for our benefit? dogs in crates is not always seen as a benefit for the dog but to the owner, harnesses are seen as a benefit to the owner not neccesarily the dog etc etc. Enjoying the feeling of having a dog off lead by my side is not ego or aroggance for me, it can be confused with confidence.
> 
> Its your opinion but there is no need to get rude about it.


I think when people care about something and feel passionately they can come across as being rude and pushy. I would try and not take it personally, if you're happy and secure in your choices then agree to disagree, it works for you but others feel differently.

I crate my dog to keep him safe and harness him to protect his neck, it works for me but wont for everyone.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

People here (myself included) are passionate about dogs, and even more passionate about their well-being. Try not to take it personally.


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## littleangel01 (Jul 3, 2011)

just trying to imagin lexi of lead  :yikes:

it reminds me of something that happend to a friend pf mine not to long ago.

my friend ownes a rottie, he one of the most well trained dog i have met and is always walked of the lead. he like others takes no notice of other dogs, birds cars ect and will stay in the heel position, he wont step into the road unless it is ok. my friend trusted him 100%. one day on the way home from the shop whilst walking down a road that didnt get much traffic another dog and owner past on the other side of the road (dog on lead) it just happend that this other dog was female and in season. my friends rottie turned and ran straight across the road just as a car turned the corner, lucky he only broke his leg and the lady who was driving the car broke her arm and had whip lash nothing to bad however the owner is now facing a fine for having a dog of lead on the street and for the dog being out of contol and is being taken to court by the car owner. if the dog is of lead again he will lose him. 

i see alot of people walk their dog of lead however would i ever do it? no to me it is not worth the risk. on the other hand if you feel you can trust your dog ect then it is up to you.


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

Gragface said:


> I think when people care about something and feel passionately they can come across as being rude and pushy. I would try and not take it personally, if you're happy and secure in your choices then agree to disagree, it works for you but others feel differently.
> 
> I crate my dog to keep him safe and harness him to protect his neck, it works for me but wont for everyone.


Phew thank you! I do see both sides I think there are just nicer ways of saying things something. just read the thread about 'other dog owners being judgemental' lol perfect timing. think I may follow her advice...


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

Personally at this moment in time I don't agree with walking a dog offlead in a built up area etc. Just because there are so many people around here who walk their dogs without a collar/lead in sight and yes the dog is very friendly/well behaved but approaches other dogs. I am the one that looks like a bad dog owner when their dog approaches and my dog who is always on lead in built up areas who doesn't like strange dogs approach him gets iffy. It can get very very awkward when I am the one who has my dog on lead! I guess there are always exceptions and only the owner knows well enough if their dog is well trained enough to not approach other on lead dogs and walk on, not run into the road etc.


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## Gragface (Oct 8, 2011)

Jackie99 said:


> I am the one that looks like a bad dog owner when their dog approaches and my dog who is always on lead in built up areas who doesn't like strange dogs approach him gets iffy. It can get very very awkward when I am the one who has my dog on lead!.


I've also had this problem, makes me feel awful.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2011)

dog in a street or pavement on lead , as i dont want anything to happen to my dogs, and if a stray dog that i do not know comes forward i have more time to get my dogs out the way on lead than i have off..
on the beach or woods of lead all the time... as long as their recall is good.. and if i see a dog running up too them they get put on lead till i can sus the other dog or speak to the owner and then we shall see
but lead is safer where other dogs people or vehicles could be 
only my opinion x


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't like seeing dogs off lead on the pavement, or for that matter, very young children running loose. 

You might know your dog wouldn't run into the road, but I wouldn't know that. I'd just assume you were one of the usual suspects who doesn't give a damn and view your dog as yet another potential hazard to worry about when I'm driving or riding my bike and a dog and owner to be avoided if I'm walking down the street myself.  I would assume that a responsible owner would have their dog on a lead tbh.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

I would never even consider having any dog of mine off lead near a road or anywhere in the vicinity of one. I could never trust them 100%. As has already been said several times they are an animal, they dont reason things out and however well trained they are, they can still respond to instinct. 

A neighbour of ours always walked his scottie off the lead along the busy road where we live, that has buses and large food lorries on it. He was always good and never went in the road without being told. 
One day the person stopped to cross the road and the dog anticipated and started to cross, only narrowly missed getting hit by one of the lorries. It was horrific to watch. Luckily he got away with it but a couple of weeks later the dog was diagnosed with a brain tumour. Maybe thats why it happened, I dont know for certain, but all I do know is I never want to watch something like that again. So I would have to say if you leave them off lead you are being irresponsible to your dog, yourself and everyone else that may be involved or affected.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

I hate it. In the 18(ish) months I've lived in Holloway I've seen 4 dogs get hit by cars, 2 fights between an on lead dog and an off lead on the pavement and a mastiff x chase down a cyclist and pull him off his bike.

I dread seeing an off lead dog if I've got my two on the lead as Ely can be very nervous and will do everything he can to get away from the approaching dog.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

It is scary seeing an off lead dog. You know straight away that the owner has no respect for the law so how do you know they have bothered to train their dog to respect other people and dogs?? 
I live in an urban area and it amazes me how many people risk their dogs lives this way. My worst example was when i was walking my 3 on lead and we rounded a corner at the same time as an off lead Staffie. It literally ran straight into the middle of my dogs and caused them to snap out of sheer panic and fear leading to a major scuffle and me screaming in the faces of the owners some pretty colourful threats!!
Can someone honestly say that if their well behaved dog suddenly found itself tangled in the leads of 3 terrified and fearful aggressive dogs they wouldnt react??, maybe run into the nearest road??


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## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm surprised how many responses there have been to this.
Saying that owners who walk dogs off lead have no respect for the law, I don't agree with.
I might have done wrong in the past, might of gone to prison for it, but a dog off lead is completely different.
If you break the law, you know what you are doing and don't care who gets hurt in the process, walking a dog, you do what you think is best.
From the reply's on here I found out that I could get a Fine for walking my dog off lead, does that mean I will stop doing it? Maybe, Maybe not. 
I'll do what works for me and my dogs!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

mrsimpson85 said:


> If you break the law, you know what you are doing and don't care who gets hurt in the process, walking a dog, you do what you think is best.
> !


So even hearing all the stories about broken legs, arms and necks and dead dogs doesnt persuade you that someone could get hurt???:scared:


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## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> So even hearing all the stories about broken legs, arms and necks and dead dogs doesnt persuade you that someone could get hurt???:scared:


yes it makes me think, but it's my dog and if I think it's ok to walk off lead with her I will. 
Different people do different things with there dogs, from diet to vaccinations.
Personally I think all dogs should be Flea'd, wormed and vaccinated, some don't and that's there choice. It's there dogs and they can do what they think is right. 
It doesn't make me right and them wrong, it's just a difference in opinion.
If I chose to walk her off lead, it doesn't make me a bad person/owner


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

mrsimpson85 said:


> yes it makes me think, but it's my dog and if I think it's ok to walk off lead with her I will.
> Different people do different things with there dogs, from diet to vaccinations.
> Personally I think all dogs should be Flea'd, wormed and vaccinated, some don't and that's there choice. It's there dogs and they can do what they think is right.
> It doesn't make me right and them wrong, it's just a difference in opinion.
> If I chose to walk her off lead, it doesn't make me a bad person/owner


Does make you a bit of a numpty though if you're going to get fined for it :lol:


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## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

bearcub said:


> Does make you a bit of a numpty though if you're going to get fined for it :lol:


you got me there!


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

As someone who was in a car , along with my OH , Grandkids and my own 3 dogs , that almost crashed because of an off-lead dog that ran into the road im strongly opposed against anyone who does this
Of course the owner said it was the first time his dog had ever done that 

No matter how much you trust your dog , the fact is he/she is an animal , with animal instincts , and any trainer worth their salt will tell you that theres no such thing as a 100% trained dog 

Doing what you do you are playing russian roulette with other peoples lives , also your dogs life

what will be your comfort if the worst happens and a death is caused because your dog wasnt on lead


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> what will be your comfort if the worst happens and a death is caused because your dog wasnt on lead


That it was their free will to do what they thought best?

Or perhaps that other often used excuse - 'he's never done that before!' 



> I'll do what works for me and my dogs!


I you were living alone on an island I would have no problem with that, but (assuming you don't) in a society there are other people to consider and I find it sad to hear more and more say they will do what they want regardless of the problems it causes others - sad reflection on modern society


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

tbh im finding the attitude of the owners on this thread who do walk their dogs offlead near roads disgusting
They all seem to have an 'im alright Jack sod the rest of you' attitude

So you trust your dog , even though theres no such thing as a 100% reliably trained animal ... but do you care for the people around you at all ?

If you do you would leash your dogs by the road , thereby making sure no harm could ever come to an innocent driver or their passengers


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## alunjones9 (Oct 8, 2011)

On lead for me, I live in the middle of the countryside and I always have mine on an extending lead, far too many distractions, pheasants, deer, squirrels, and farmers with guns!!!!
Only when I'm sure we are in a safe place will I let him off for a run, can never trust them, they are only dogs after all. The other point to bear in mind is that not everyone you meet likes dogs and to see one loose no matter how obedient is worrying for them. 

To be honest when I see dogs off lead I am always wary, after all I don't know the dog or the owner.

Be responsible


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

when i had my odg, thats exactly what we did!
i dont think its irresponsible at all, that owner was just being wiierd!


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

*No offence* to you guys who love walking your dogs off lead on footpaths *BUT* honestly guys even with a 100% dog *is it worth the risk???*

Im a driver and a dog owner so from both perspectives think it is *EXTREMELY* irrespponsible to walk them off lead next to a road.

Us drivers already have enough on our plates with idiots that dont look when crossing the roads and with drivers who drive without due care and attention..so *why should we be expected to watchout for offlead dogs too??*

Sorry but its an *accident waiting to happen*.

To the lady on here who owns Hooch..your dog may be 100% with ur oh, *BUT* as a driver driving past you i wouldnt know that and my attention would go straight on your dog as id be *anxious* thinking it could run infront of my car at any second. A driver who is *distracted* in such a way could easily end up in an accident with another car and end up injuring or killing anyone in the vicinity.

As a dog owner i would *NEVER* let Sammy walk offlead next to a road even if i trusted him a thousand percent.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I trust my lot off lead 100%......



to chase cats into peoples gardens,
run into the road after anything that looks like it might be edible and
to take themselves off home if it starts raining!LOL





(I get fed up of all the off lead Staffies round here right next to busy roads. Also the training techniques which seem to involve screaming at pups and hitting them..)


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## k4r4 (Sep 20, 2009)

Ok so I haven't been on for a good while due to real life taking over but thought I would pop buy and I saw this thread.....

I would never walk my dog off lead next to any place that could cause a danger to anyone or anything. 

As someone else stated it is illegal to walk your dog off lead in a public area (well it is here).

I have grown up with dogs and was always taught that on main streets and areas where there are people and cars the dogs are on lead at all times, I think its irresponsible to expect your dog to be perfect all the time i sure know mine isn't. 

anyhoo yeah I don't agree with walking a dog off lead on a main street.


K4R4 xx


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## mstori (May 22, 2009)

I personally cant stand seeing dogs off lead on paths, for one i dont know the dog and how it is going to react when i walk past, and it only takes a second for something to go seriously wrong.

My friend had her dog 6 years, always walked off lead. Dont know why, there was a few things it could have been, but she stepped onto the road and was killed. First time she had ever done this. Not just was it sad for my friend and her daughter who was with her at the time, but also for the driver of the car. Everyone involved were distraught, and the driver also had a lot of damage done to her car, but luckily escaped with just whiplash.

another friend had a dog die when a car swerved round corner too quick and clipped the dog and her sons buggy. Her son was thrown from buggy but was ok, but the dog was crushed against the wall. Perhaps this would have still happened regardless of being on a lead or not, but they often wondered if he had been on lead if they could have pulled him out of the way.

IMHO it just isnt worth the risk.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Some years ago I had a Bernese cross. He was an excellent all round Dog abeit a small delusional problem.

He didn't think he was a Dog. 

He would walk quite happily off leash about 6 - 10 feet in front of me and when he arrived at the kerbside to cross a road he would stand and look back until I arrived by his side. Two clicks with the tongue and he knew it was safe to cross.
Aloof with other Dogs/Cats he would pay them no interest if one appeared on the opposite side of the road. 

I've never had a Dog quite like him since and have always admired those who are able to trust and walk their Dogs in a town without a leash and believe that this is the ultimate sign of an truly obedient and loyal Dog.

We've tried walking both Zara and Oscar off leash in the town when we take them out on their socialisation exercises but they're just too excited and inquisitive and the mayhem the pair would probably cause doesn't even bear thinking about.


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## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

After looking after a dog who was brilliant to walk offlead (altho I rarely allowed this), I can see why people want to stand up for their off lead dogs.

The dog I looked after was amazing offlead and even when I had a lead on her, she would want to hold her lead in her mouth and walk alongside me holding her own lead instead of me :lol:
But I still always felt cautious with her, for many reasons including the law, dog phobics and just wanting to have a "safety net" just incase something should happen.
We came to a compromise and I would allow her to carry her lead when it was quiet, but I would then take the lead whenever I felt there were too many potential risks around.

As a biker and car driver, I can also see the point of view from the road users side and as Sammy owners says ( sorry cant remember your name river something  ) drivers will see the off lead dog as a potential hazzard ahead, no matter how well trained it looks, the driver will remain vigilant of the dog as a hazzard til they pass safely and that is a needless distraction, it could cause the driver to miss something else like roaming cat about to run out from under a parked car.

Im not sure about the spooked dog replies, the dog I looked after was rarely spooked by anything, when the lead was on she would act very different to when she wasnt on lead... almost like she was ten times more focused on me and constantly listening out for my commands, watching my body language and where my feet were going... yet once the lead was on her, she almost seemed to know, she could be abit more careless and do as she pleased 
But dogs like this are rare. I have seen very few off lead dogs that are that focused on the owner. Most offlead dogs seem to need constant commands from the owner to follow, to wait, to leave etc etc they are the sort of dogs that I would be worried about, you can just tell its not IF but WHEN an accident happens :mad2:

Anyhow, after all the points made out, I have decided to get leads for my children! The amount of times my heart has jumped out because of a near miss is too scary to think about! Even the dog I looked after never had a near mis, but my Children seem content to have atleast one near miss every week :scared:

Also out of curiosity! *How many people who are strict about dogs being ON lead, also have a free roaming cat* :confused1:
Having owned cats in the past and knowing other cat owners, I have lost count of the times that cats have just vanished, got run over, been hurt (proberly by cat haters), come back with cat fight injuries etc its madness! 
Persoanlly I find it odd that you wouldnt want your normally trusting dog to be offlead near any road for even a second... yet you have a cat who is risking life and limb every single day. Might be a whole different topic, but its still the same, every day you let the cat out, you might aswell be walking your dog unleashed by a road as far as my opinion goes.

Im leaning more towards dogs ONlead by roads, but I do believe very rarely there is a dog that can remain offlead near a road with not one single problem. Im far too cautious to want to put risks infront of such a dog to find out tho. But I dont think offlead dog owners are always irresponsible, stupid or doing it for the image etc just extremely trusting with their dog and maybe niave or carefree about the law


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## mstori (May 22, 2009)

sailor said:


> Also out of curiosity! *How many people who are strict about dogs being ON lead, also have a free roaming cat* :confused1:
> Having owned cats in the past and knowing other cat owners, I have lost count of the times that cats have just vanished, got run over, been hurt (proberly by cat haters), come back with cat fight injuries etc its madness!
> Persoanlly I find it odd that you wouldnt want your normally trusting dog to be offlead near any road for even a second... yet you have a cat who is risking life and limb every single day. Might be a whole different topic, but its still the same, every day you let the cat out, you might aswell be walking your dog unleashed by a road as far as my opinion goes.


my cat is indoor, but taking the loss of life out of the factor, a cat also wont do as much damage to a driver/car if knocked over. Harsh as that sounds.

Plus, how many times have we ourselves had to step back onto a curb when we havent seen a car come, or one comes from seemingly nowhere.

I know im always over cautious but at least that way i know if anything did happen, then ive done all i could.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I trust my lot to stay by me but wouldn't have them off lead in the street. Since training all of them come back when called etc but as i found out the other day it doesn't always work that way. I was playing with them in the back room and someone knocked on the door, i went to answer it and with that Penny spotted a cat and shot out between my legs to play with it, she lives with cat so thinks they all want to play but this cat didn't know that and took off closely followed by penny up and down the street and in and out the road, thankfully there where no cars but it could so easily have been different...and this is a dog who usually comes back on recall instantly.
I let them off when we're on the land we usually walk penny and Tex run head and fizz walks by my side but in the street they're back on lead,

If a policeman round here sees you with a dog off lead they will stop you and make you put it on... strangely enough if a policeman see's a dealer hanging on a street corner with a staff with a docked tail(which to my annoyance we still have round here)pushing packets of white stuff into the hands of teenagers they turn a blind eye....oh they certainly pick their battles in this town 

Anyway..after all my Waffle....and my ramblings..No...I wouldn't off lead walk in the street....but would and do when we get to our destination  x


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

JennyClifford said:


> It's illegal


No it isnt. Some areas have on lead bye laws but it is not illegal in most places.

I used to have dogs that could be walked off the lead. They came out riding with me, they were 100 percent obedient, I could stop them instantly in any circumstances. I had done it for years and been on busy roads with the horse and dogs, been through the town etc. But one day I was out in the evening walking them and they saw a cat while I was busy talking and paying them no attention and it coincided with a drunk driver speeding through the village.

I would never do it again - but if you have dogs as well trained as mine were and you want to risk it then it is probably no higher a risk than a lot of others that we take all the time. I see loads of dogs walking on the outskirts of town off the lead, running ahead of their owners - and I feel it is totally up to them.


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## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

mstori said:


> my cat is indoor, but taking the loss of life out of the factor, *a cat also wont do as much damage to a driver/car if knocked over*. Harsh as that sounds.
> 
> Plus, how many times have we ourselves had to step back onto a curb when we havent seen a car come, or one comes from seemingly nowhere.
> 
> I know im always over cautious but at least that way i know if anything did happen, then ive done all i could.


The same could be said for the smaller breeds of dogs, I have seen some dogs that are smaller than a cat!
Unless the driver swerves to avoid said cat/small dog and hits something else!  or gets rear ended after braking harsh.

I am in agreement with you tho and like yourself, it is better to be cautious and know you atleast did what you could to keep the public/yourself/your pets safe


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Section 27, Highways Act 1980
Should be covered in here! no too sure of the exact wording and can't be bothered to look
There are many many laws that are not unheld
Another - if I remember right is one whereby an unleashed dog owner could becharged with obstuction EVEN on theor own land if there is a PRW across it.


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## mstori (May 22, 2009)

sailor said:


> The same could be said for the smaller breeds of dogs, I have seen some dogs that are smaller than a cat!
> Unless the driver swerves to avoid said cat/small dog and hits something else!  or gets rear ended after braking harsh.
> 
> I am in agreement with you tho and like yourself, it is better to be cautious and know you atleast did what you could to keep the public/yourself/your pets safe


i cant remember the exact law and i need to get some sleep (been up all night lol)

but im sure that you shouldnt swerve for a small animal, and just knock it over (sadly) but yeah i forget there are tiny dogs haha

somthing to do with dogs being owners irresponsibility and cats arent? bit daft really.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

I trust one of my dogs to walk off lead on a road however I do not allow it at all. I just dont want to risk it TBH.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

It is due to people not being responsible with their dogs and obeying laws that are already in place that more and more councils are bringing in Bye Laws for, 'Dogs on leads' and 'No dogs allowed'. People with dogs are the minority in society and unless people behave more responsible there will be fewer and fewer places for us to walk our dogs.


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## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

mstori said:


> i cant remember the exact law and i need to get some sleep (been up all night lol)
> 
> but im sure that you shouldnt swerve for a small animal, and just knock it over (sadly) but yeah i forget there are tiny dogs haha
> 
> somthing to do with dogs being owners irresponsibility and cats arent? bit daft really.


Yes I have heard similar things too, more to do with wild animals and if you swerve you are more likely to hit them as they try to avoid you!
Abit like when you walk through town and try to step out of someones way, only for them to do the same and before you know it, you are doing this side step dance to avoid each other and get all apologetic inbetween laughing :lol:

But also, if you swerve to avoid an animal and end up taking out a telegraph pole, you would be liable for that and end up having to pay for damages yourself, then it would be a matter of trying to track down the pets owner to sue/claim from them etc etc

Never really looked into it properly tho

( PS GO TO BED!!!  )


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm shocked at the amount of people who think they have 100% percent obedient dogs. Its just not possible [IMO]


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

kat&molly said:


> I'm shocked at the amount of people who think they have 100% percent obedient dogs. Its just not possible [IMO]


On that I will most certainly agree. BUT! I think maybe I have perhaps met an exception NOT mine and only once.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> im sure that you shouldnt swerve for a small animal, and just knock it over (sadly)


Yes, I remember being told this when learning to drive.

I wonder why people say their dog is 100% UNTIL something happens 

And I'm confused why the OP would say



> I trust her 100%. She doesn't run off, wont step into the road unless I tell her it's OK and if we see another dog, I'll call her and she will come back so I can put her lead on.


When elsewhere (in his own words)



> I need to work on training them a bit more, there not bad, they just respond when they want to rather than when I tell them to, especially Stella.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Laws or no Laws, I consideri t very remiss of peeps to walk dogs off-lead in public built-up places.

I have NEVER walked any dog of mine off-lead on the path.

This country is anti-dog enough without the likes of me walking rotties in public built up areas off-lead. 

I prefer to be law-abiding and keep my dogs and myself safe. :thumbup:


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## thedogwhisperer (Aug 22, 2011)

I don't like it especially when the dog in question pees on people's cars


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I think it is very irresponsible. Maybe you have trained your dog to be a machine that is 100% reliable, but the vast majority of people don't. I've seen people walk dogs off lead on roads, and they run across the road to get to my dog. I do not see any benefit to having a dog off lead, other than image.


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## mrsimpson85 (Sep 13, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> Yes, I remember being told this when learning to drive.
> 
> I wonder why people say their dog is 100% UNTIL something happens
> 
> ...


That's Stella. She never goes off lead, has a long lead at the park, shandy is different. 
She might not have tricks mastered, but walking etiquette she does.
Recall's good, walk to heels good, stop and wait are good, but she wont roll over, wont crawl, wont beg.
Training comes in different ways, Important things, walking ect, and fun things, tricks ect.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Just to add another side to the argument. If someone makes a complaint about an "aggressive" dog off lead in public, the police/council have to react. There are some people out there who are malicious and manipulative and if they don't like what they see, or who they see they can put in a complaint.

This is a quote a DEFRA article about what is deemed a dangerous dog:


> In addition, if your dog is dangerously out of control in its own home or garden then the police or *anyone else that is worried about the dog being a risk could also seek a control order*.
> If your dog injures another persons animal, *or an owner of an animal reasonably believes that they could be injured if they intervened to protect their animal from your dog, then an offence may be committed*.





> If you do not keep your dog under control, your dog could be destroyed and you could be banned from keeping a dog


You might be able to control what you/your dog does but you can't control how other people perceive you and the predicament that they might feel. Nowadays people don't talk to each other, they take any situation to the next level.


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## alunjones9 (Oct 8, 2011)

I'm amazed at the responses here, yes it's a wonderful feeling when your dog walks by your side off leash and appears to be under your control, such a great feeling of bonding. But that's your feeling not the dog's, we all have a Duty of Care and that includes anything or anybody we come in contact with on our walks. We have to remember this is a dog not a human, a dog like any other animal works on instinct not reason, they have a short attention span, they trust you to take care of them, put them on a lead in a public place, there are lots of safe places out there to exercise them, be responsible owners and stop humanizing them.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> yes it's a wonderful feeling when your dog walks by your side off leash and appears to be under your control, such a great feeling of bonding


You don't have to be walking along a road to do that though?

Personally, I don't get it. Walking to heel when dummies/birds are dropping around you. Seeing a dummy/bird through out 150yards away, having your dog sit under control waiting to sent for the retrieve, where adreneline levels are so high your dog is shaking with excitement, sending it out and stopping it 100yards out to redirect and hunt for another dummy/bird your dog is unaware of and watching it bring it back. That is a wonderful feeling of bonding together, but walking off lead on the road...???? I don't get it.

As I said before, there are far better and safer ways of experiencing that bond.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

rocco33 said:


> Yes, I remember being told this when learning to drive.
> 
> I wonder why people say their dog is 100% UNTIL something happens
> 
> ...


Your first post was excellent and I totally agreed with it.

But please do not turn this into belittling the OP for any inconsistancies.

You have made your point. No need to keep harping on....


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> But please do not turn this into belittling the OP for any inconsistancies.


I wasn't trying to belittle anyone.
I was simply pointing out that when people say their dog is 100% it is not the case. They are living creatures, not machines so can never be 100% even when an owner thinks they are.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

I think it really, really depends on the dog. Some dogs can be trusted off-lead, but the trust needs to be 100%.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Grace_Lily said:


> I think it really, really depends on the dog. Some dogs can be trusted off-lead, but the trust needs to be 100%.


But that trust is based on human thinking ... and whether we like it or not a dog is not a human and doesnt think like us

Anyone who says their dog is 100% trustworthy is deluding themselves


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

No one can read a dog's mind nor predict the future, at best we second guess their behaviour based on what has gone before- a living, sentient being that is reliable 100% of the time, to every possible end is a fantasy IMO. 

For me I just don't see why anyone would want to take the risk. Looking at the objective costs/benefits, there is so much more to be lost.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Mese said:


> But that trust is based on human thinking ... and whether we like it or not a dog is not a human and doesnt think like us
> 
> Anyone who says their dog is 100% trustworthy is deluding themselves


I don't think it is based on human thinking, I think it's based on knowing your dog extremely well and building up mutual respect, trust and training.

I don't walk my dogs off lead out of habit more than anything, but my Sprocker can be walked on lead with me holding the lead with my little finger. She also walks perfectly to heel when off lead and every walk I practice her 'watch me' command. When she's on road walking her focus is totally on me, she doesn't strain to greet other dogs, chase birds, etc etc.

So far in her 4 years of life she has never once let me down and I know I could trust her off lead if I chose to.

This isn't me 'deluding' myself, I have other dogs who I very much know couldn't be trusted off lead to ignore distractions and keep to heel perfectly! Like I said, it does depend on the individual dog.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Grace_Lily said:


> I don't think it is based on human thinking, I think it's based on knowing your dog extremely well and building up mutual respect, trust and training.
> 
> I don't walk my dogs off lead out of habit more than anything, but my Sprocker can be walked on lead with me holding the lead with my little finger. She also walks perfectly to heel when off lead and every walk I practice her 'watch me' command. When she's on road walking her focus is totally on me, she doesn't strain to greet other dogs, chase birds, etc etc.
> 
> ...


I dont doubt that she is well trained , a lot of dogs are , including my own , but I still wouldnt trust them 100% not to react if their natural instincts should take over
It only takes that one instance for everything to come crashing down

imo it isnt worth taking the risk


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Grace_Lily said:


> I don't think it is based on human thinking, I think it's based on knowing your dog extremely well and building up mutual respect, trust and training.
> 
> I don't walk my dogs off lead out of habit more than anything, but my Sprocker can be walked on lead with me holding the lead with my little finger. She also walks perfectly to heel when off lead and every walk I practice her 'watch me' command. When she's on road walking her focus is totally on me, she doesn't strain to greet other dogs, chase birds, etc etc.
> 
> ...


But, you can't know how a dog will react in a situation you haven't encountered before, and you cannot possible train for every situation. Sometimes things happen which are unexpected/out of our control and new. There is a reason why the law only considers a dog under control if it is on lead.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> But, you can't know how a dog will react in a situation you haven't encountered before, and you cannot possible train for every situation. Sometimes things happen which are unexpected/out of our control and new. There is a reason why the law only considers a dog under control if it is on lead.


I dont think that is true. A dog can be out of control if it lunging around snarling and snapping at the end of the lead. It can be completely under control off the lead. My obedience dogs were totally under control at all times off the lead, though I did keep them on the lead on the road as I was normally walking 4 of them. If I was in the park or in an area with distractions I could drop them if I needed to or call them to heel.
Current dogs are not trained to any real level and are definitely not under control off the lead.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Blitz said:


> I dont think that is true. A dog can be out of control if it lunging around snarling and snapping at the end of the lead. It can be completely under control off the lead. My obedience dogs were totally under control at all times off the lead, though I did keep them on the lead on the road as I was normally walking 4 of them. If I was in the park or in an area with distractions I could drop them if I needed to or call them to heel.
> Current dogs are not trained to any real level and are definitely not under control off the lead.


Why do u think that current dogs are not as well trained? I don't disagree but just wonder why this does appear to have changed over the years ..


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I would never; having had a dog whose lead broke when mum was walking her on the other side of the road and who saw me and ran straight out into the traffic and got hit by a car...

I will never forget that sickening screetch of brakes, the almighty bang and my dog screaming in pain after being dragged along - would never ever risk it. Ok so it wasn't a matter of trusting the dog or not as was a freak situation but not something you will ever forget.

I have also been in two cars that have hit a dog; once was in india and the driver went straight over it bump bump. I also saw a puppy get hit by a car that was in too much of astate to even talk about here without turning stomachs screaming etc..... someone had to come and kill it was awful. cars and dogs if they get mixed up DO NOT mix; trust or no trust for me I would never forgive myself if my dog ended up like one of the above.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Mese said:


> I dont doubt that she is well trained , a lot of dogs are , including my own , but I still wouldnt trust them 100% not to react if their natural instincts should take over
> It only takes that one instance for everything to come crashing down
> 
> imo it isnt worth taking the risk


Like I've already said, every dog is different and I know my Sprocker would not overrule my command in order to follow some kind of instinct. Being a Spaniel she actually defies her natural instinct and shows no interest in birds, as does one of our ESS.

My original point which I think has gotten a little lost is that I don't think it is irresponsible to walk a dog off lead as the OP was so rudely told by a complete stranger.



rocco33 said:


> But, you can't know how a dog will react in a situation you haven't encountered before, and you cannot possible train for every situation. Sometimes things happen which are unexpected/out of our control and new. There is a reason why the law only considers a dog under control if it is on lead.


I can't predict her reaction, but I can predict the reality that she will not overrule my command to 'leave it' 'watch me' or 'heel'. To me that is what really matters because while you can change the situation you and your dog are in the training and obedience are what you need to rely on.

The law does not only consider a dog as under control if they are on lead, I'm not sure why you think this. If a dog misbehaves the owner can be charged with having a dog 'dangerously out of control' but not 'off lead'.


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

Grace_Lily said:


> My original point which I think has gotten a little lost is that I don't think it is irresponsible to walk a dog off lead as the OP was so rudely told by a complete stranger.


Agreed, I have been shot down and called egotistical and arrogant by a faceless person because of my views on this topic, and it has actually made me want to leave this forum. I know people are passionate about things like this and others have said not to take it personally but its very hard when you've only just voiced your opinion in a nice way and the next thing you know you feel like the worst dog owner in the world. Personally I think admin could do with shutting this thread down.


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## mstori (May 22, 2009)

Livesey said:


> Agreed, I have been shot down and called egotistical and arrogant by a faceless person because of my views on this topic, and it has actually made me want to leave this forum. I know people are passionate about things like this and others have said not to take it personally but its very hard when you've only just voiced your opinion in a nice way and the next thing you know you feel like the worst dog owner in the world. Personally I think admin could do with shutting this thread down.


do you not think too many threads are closed?

If someone asks for an opinion then they will get one.. yes sometimes people come on string, but will fight their thoughts as much as you do yours..

If you think what you do is 100% correct then why would you feel like the worst dog owner?


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## Gragface (Oct 8, 2011)

Livesey said:


> Personally I think admin could do with shutting this thread down.


I like to read everyones different opinions, makes for interesting reading and helps me to understand how others feel about such topics. I do think personal attacks should be removed/edited.


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

mstori said:


> do you not think too many threads are closed?
> 
> If someone asks for an opinion then they will get one.. yes sometimes people come on string, but will fight their thoughts as much as you do yours..
> 
> If you think what you do is 100% correct then why would you feel like the worst dog owner?


I don't know about threads being closed as I am a new member and I have no problems with people giving them opinions as I have given my own which is not to everyones likings but being called egotistical and arrogant is not nice and there is no need for it which is why I have felt like a bad owner because of the very harsh replies. The same person was told by someone else that they were belittling as well. in all of my replies I have been nice in fighting my corner, but occasionally some haven't


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

Gragface said:


> I like to read everyones different opinions, makes for interesting reading and helps me to understand how others feel about such topics. I do think personal attacks should be removed/edited.


Exactly I enjoy a good debate which is why I joined in knowing full well that my reply wasn't going to be to everyone's taste, but as you've said I do feel like some of us have been attacked a bit too harshly.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Livesey said:


> Agreed, I have been shot down and called egotistical and arrogant by a faceless person because of my views on this topic, and it has actually made me want to leave this forum. I know people are passionate about things like this and others have said not to take it personally but its very hard when you've only just voiced your opinion in a nice way and the next thing you know you feel like the worst dog owner in the world. Personally I think admin could do with shutting this thread down.


Try not to take it too personally, we get passionate when it comes to certain topics on here because we're all animal lovers and want the best for all animals. There's no excuse for rudeness though, I haven't read the whole thread so can't comment on if that's the case here.

I think the forum can be a great place to learn and share tips and stories, and if people disagree it's best to just live and let live. We're all adults at the end of the day and can make our own choices on how we train and rear our pets. Please don't leave based on one person or comment, the forum has lots of positive aspects


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## mstori (May 22, 2009)

Livesey said:


> I don't know about threads being closed as I am a new member and I have no problems with people giving them opinions as I have given my own which is not to everyones likings but being called egotistical and arrogant is not nice and there is no need for it which is why I have felt like a bad owner because of the very harsh replies. The same person was told by someone else that they were belittling as well. in all of my replies I have been nice in fighting my corner, but occasionally some haven't


i agree, i left the forum because of it before but debates are good.. its when people have to be pathetic and start name calling that makes them look stupid and that their opinion however valid before is dismissed.

However for topics of safety. like this is for all involved then thread should remain open, perhaps people havent realised that they are putting their pets etc at risk.

Yes you can say a dog has 100% recall.. but you can only say so far.. not that it always will have so why risk things? pop a lead on next to roads? at the end of the day we would hate to see an accident happen


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## BumbleFluff (Jul 23, 2011)

JennyClifford said:


> It's illegal


This.

Its against the law to walk your dog off lead by roads, the dog could run out, get seriously hurt/killed, and cause a serious accident also getting someone hurt/killed.
My aunty used to walk her dogs off lead round the estate where she lived, i never thought anything of it at the time, they were perfectly behaved. I know you know your dogs very well, but just imagine how you would feel if something happened


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Funny thing is, no one who is defending off lead road walking has actually explained what difference it makes simply clipping a lead on!

Surely if all these dogs are 100% trustworthy and perfectly trained, they'd walk beautifully to heal and having the lead, even just clipped to your belt, wouldn't be an issue!!!


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

Good point  I don't think I can defend the off the lead, its just something I've done every now and then and I do agree there are alot of 'what ifs' when there off the lead. I do get the potential risks and how it is illegal and it has made me think more about it, but going slightly of tangent thought I do think flexi leads are just as much at a risk of the 'what if' factor for the dog getting spooked at full lead length and running into/across the road and yet they are still on a lead....i'll just throw that one in there


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## mstori (May 22, 2009)

Livesey said:


> Good point  I don't think I can defend the off the lead, its just something I've done every now and then and I do agree there are alot of 'what ifs' when there off the lead. I do get the potential risks and how it is illegal and it has made me think more about it, but going slightly of tangent thought I do think flexi leads are just as much at a risk of the 'what if' factor for the dog getting spooked at full lead length and running into/across the road and yet they are still on a lead....i'll just throw that one in there




i use a flexi lead sometimes. Its never extended fully until in the park, and sometimes i put his normal lead on til we get there.. common sense i would have thought.

see we can debate nicely here sometimes


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

my faith in this forum is restored.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> Why do u think that current dogs are not as well trained? I don't disagree but just wonder why this does appear to have changed over the years ..


Apologies, I meant MY current dogs are not as well trained.

Though actually I think the average dog is less well trained and I think there is a variety of reasons for this. One being that the dog is often no longer a member of the family and expected to behave at all times. the owners read books, agonise over it and treat the poor dog like an alien species. Family life has changed and there is not a place for the dog in the way that there used to be, where the dog had a lot of freedom, fitted in well and did what it was told.
Those with a more laid back attitude often have a better trained dog. And as I have got older I have to admit I do not put the training time in, do not take the dogs out and about like I used to and do not attain the obedience I used to have. And I am less laid back about it.

An example. I was outside the vets a good few years ago with a collie cross and I clipped her lead on as I opened the boot. She jumped out onto the pavement and the clip came undone. The force of her leap out of the car was taking her within a foot or so of the busy main road and one more running stride would have had her squashed. I shouted her name and she skidded to a halt and turned back to me. That is obedience. My current dogs would not dream of stopping. Admittedly they are a different breed but I just have not trained them, yet they are still much better behaved than very many dogs, which is a sad reflection on the general standard of training among dog owners.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

My partner walks hooch offlead not for his gratification he does it sometimes not all the time and hooch walks good on the lead and off the lead but off the lead he walks better. 
I know this is not everyones cup of tea but the op and the other people who walk dogs off lead and commented have not said that this is the way and people who walk on lead are wrong which peple wh walk dogs on leads have so kindly said too us..... 
Some of the name calling that has been said is out off order, just because we do not think offlead walking is wrong. 
Theres a way of saying something and too say things that have been said is out of order. 
Forums are for debates yes but there are ways of syaing stuff. 

I think we kinda get the gist that there are alot of people who hate dogs being offlead but that is your choice. 

Yes my oh does trust hooch 100% and im srry if people do not agree that you can trust a dog 100%, i have whitnessed the relationship my oh and hooch have and he adores my oh n my oh him. they trust each other and its amazing too see there relationship. 

I trust stanlie 100% but i dont have that kind of trust that he wouldnt run in the road too see another dog so for that reason i wouldnt let him walk offlead on a main road. 

Im not saying anything more on this thread because i have said what i feel and i will leave it at that.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Just came across this thread, and haven't read all the replies yet. This is just my 2 penn'orth.

There's only one road that I used to feel confident about letting Max walk offlead along (Milly isn't road-savvy so is ALWAYS onlead near a road). It leads to an industrial estate and lies between my flat, and our daily walking area. At nights/bank holidays/weekends, it's deserted, and Max normally wandered between the trees away from the road so that I was between him and said road anyway so I felt fairly confident allowing Max offlead along that road. 

On 2 separate occasions now, he's caught sight of a (I presume) squirrel and took off across this road. Both times have been late at night, so no traffic around. He's normally well behaved, but the last time this happened, it took me a couple of minutes to get him back. Luckily, it was about 11:00pm on a Saturday night and as above, the road was deserted. Now when we go along that road, he's onlead.

Max has also walked out in front of an oncoming car before. Luckily he was onlead and I managed to drag him back in time. 

Both my dogs will chase any cat/small furry they come across and with 5 that I know of in my street/immediate area alone, it's just not worth it.

People could be phobic against them. I used to be. Any dog was intimidating to me, even onlead as my phobic mind imagined them breaking their leads and coming snarling and salivating towards me, but offlead dogs were so much worse.

Basically, I agree with what the majority are saying - for the sake of a lead, it's not worth the risk.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

mrsimpson85 said:


> When I walk my dogs, I occasionally walk 1 off lead. (road/street walking)
> I've never thought anything of it, I trust her 100%. She doesn't run off, wont step into the road unless I tell her it's OK and if we see another dog, I'll call her and she will come back so I can put her lead on.
> Today I walked them, 1 off lead, and met another dog walker who said _"I was irresponsible to walk a dog of lead on the street. I might trust my dog, but they can change in a second."_
> I honestly never thought about that.
> ...


Sorry but its one of my "pet" hates!!
See it quite a lot here, someone walking their dog off lead with said lead in hand errrrrr WHY? whats the use of having a lead if you aint gonna use it


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

As has been said it's illegal, irresponsible and incnsiderate for other people, children who may be scared, other dog walkers and your own dogs safety.

At the end of the day it's an animal we're talking about and they are unpredictable. I just wish fines were imposed on people who break the law and risk everyones safety including their dogs! 
I also hate the niavity of "you know your dog" because you only know your dog under normal circumstances and not if something out of the ordinary may happen. When walking Flynn during daylight last year and two spent rockets landed at our feet he would have been long gone if not on a lead.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Have the people who walk off leads by roads ever seen a dog get hit / killed by a car? Not something I will ever forget nor being ina car that's hit a dog 

Especially the puppy I saw people were throwing up in horror at the state it was in yer still alive and screaming someone had to kill it


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

xshelly_stanliex said:


> My partner walks hooch offlead not for his gratification he does it sometimes not all the time and hooch walks good on the lead and off the lead but off the lead he walks better.
> I know this is not everyones cup of tea but the op and the other people who walk dogs off lead and commented have not said that this is the way and people who walk on lead are wrong which peple wh walk dogs on leads have so kindly said too us.....
> Some of the name calling that has been said is out off order, just because we do not think offlead walking is wrong.
> Theres a way of saying something and too say things that have been said is out of order.
> ...


You won't find a bigger staffy fan than me. I have one cross and work in a predomonently staffy rescue. I also work in London.

But I have to say, that the ONLY people who walk their dogs off lead down the road are the idiots of our society. I am NOT saying this applies to you. But if I saw your OH walking down the street with one of your dogs (who are gorgeous) then I would think exactly that.

To be honest you are NOT helping with the staffy name. Becasue the perception of the general public as you can see just from this forum) is that people who walk their dog off lead down a road are irresponsible. Put that together with a staff and you are contributing to the poor image.

If it is ok for you to do this, then what stops the 18 year old gang member who uses his dog to intimidate people? People don't know you from adam.

If you want to help the name of the staffy then you should walk your dog on lead and not be labelled the same as the other type of people who do this.

If you want to take a risk with your own dogs life then fine. But through rescue work, I have to deal with the judgmental people against staffys, and I can tell you now, that your OH is not helping with their reputation...

====================================================

For the record I do not think you or your OH are in anyway the type of people who are typical staffy owners (typical in this day and age, unfortunately are the less respected members of society). But you will be lumped in with them.

Want staffys respected? Help by keeping them on a lead in a public place, bar the park. Set an example to the idiots who refuse to do this..


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## DogTrainer01 (Apr 13, 2011)

I think its extremely irresponsible. Dogs have their own mind. Fair enough your dog may be very well behaved but you (the owner) can't control the whole envioronment all the time, anything could happen to spook or excite your dog. _If _ your dog did unexpectantly run into the road, in my mind you not only put the dog in danger but all the car drivers.

People with dog phobias would probably also prefer to walk past a dog (on a narrow pavement for instance) who is onlead.


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

I find it is becoming a bigger issue in this area and it makes me anxious when out having an enjoyable walk with the dog. By all means leave dogs run free when in suitable areas, there is nothing more enjoyable than seeing a dog running free but I have just always assumed it is just politness/respect and safety to put dogs on lead in built up areas and when other dogs are approaching until the situation can be judged and deemed to be ok. There are lots of people around here who walk their dogs without any collars/lead and at the moment the ones bothering me most are people with two staffies, bearing in mind behind the house is a very large field they could exercise the dogs in but no the walk is a quick 5-10 minute run through the streets. The younger of the staff has to recall what so ever and has gotten tangled up in my dogs lead numerous times while the owner called on for her to come back etc while I tried to walk on. The man says they are as friendly as can be which may be the case but with my dog on lead as it is a built up area who gets nervous of dogs in his face/approaching him on lead etc what is to say he won't snap, the off lead dog won't snap back and what chance do we stand if they havent a collar/lead? Experiences like this knock my dog back all the time, like the other man who will not walk his two large breeds on leads what so ever and they literally charge at you. My dog is now petrified and I have asked him nicely but nothing. It a shame when you are working with a nervous dog then situations like this pop up.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Livesey said:


> I do get the potential risks and how it is illegal and it has made me think more about it, but going slightly of tangent thought I do think flexi leads are just as much at a risk of the 'what if' factor for the dog getting spooked at full lead length and running into/across the road and yet they are still on a lead....i'll just throw that one in there


Look up the Flexi Lead thread which was started recently saying they should be banned


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Excellent post by goodvic2 - that's exactly what I was trying to say but couldn't. 

Staffy owners must do all they can to help their cause and off lead walking isn't one of them!  It's no wonder people cross the road, I would have to just in case it came anywhere near Flynn - not the Staffy being bad but my dog but then my dog is ALWAYS on a lead and I shouldn't have to cross over to avoid possible confrontations with other's. Whether the other dog is friendly or not Flynn would possibly not like it and controlling a 60kgs dog is far harder than controlling a 25kgs Staff so I would rather not take the chance.

Love Staffies but very unsure about some of their owners! 

Flexi leads are a nightmare IMO and they should only ever be used in parks etc. not at all fair on motorists to see a dog who could potentially run in front of them. I think when you own a dog you have to look at many different scenario's and always consider other people.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

No matter what the "trust" level between you and your dog, dogs are living breathing critters- they have their own brains, them trusting you is not going to stop a car back firing startling them to run out into the road, or that squirrel that has just run up that tree across the road being super exciting. Everyone HAS to see that this COULD happen, and the driver swerving to avoid your dog, that goes up the pavement and kills a kid will have to live with that forever.

As for Staffs, well we have a duty to try and change their appalling image, having one loose walking next to you does not do this, especially when attaching a lead is no big deal- there is a time and a place for dogs to be offlead. There is a man who walks his retriever off lead on the roads round by me- who goes up to people and other dogs- effing nightmare for me and Dex.


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## Staffx (Jan 12, 2011)

Sorry goodvic2 I can't agree.

I walk my Staffx off lead most places, I tend not to walk by busy roads and will put him on lead if I was walking alongside one (nearly all of the time), However I would rarely put him on lead around the cul-de-sacs I live and the walks I take because they are all very quiet and most my walks are road free. However my dog is off lead on trails and paths and anywhere elses that isn't a busy road or an area of activity that would get him excited. Now to say somehow people like myself and shelly_stanlie are exasberating the staff problem is overstated to say the least. I put my dog on lead when any other on lead dog approaches and will get him to come to me and sit while anybody walks past be it bike or person.

I would actually say the opposite, although I can't speak for shelly_stanlie but know her staffs are extremely gorgeous and well behaved, that we are helping the perception of staff by having well behave staffs that can walk well offlead and are well socialised with both humans and dogs on walks. 

I know since owning a staff I have changed many an opinion, as I have had many friends and dog walker tell me so. I have also had people comment that a staffy must be vicious because it was on a tight lead or because he was wearing a harness. Some people are happy with their prejudices and nothing will change that until they actually experience the truth, the more well behaved staffs the better.

On the original point though anyone who walks there dogs offlead near busy roads is taking a very big risk, but it is there risk and as long as they understand this and they can deal with the consequences it is there choice just like a lot of dog ownership.


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## WeimyLady (Jan 3, 2010)

Staffx said:


> Sorry goodvic2 I can't agree.
> 
> I walk my Staffx off lead most places, I tend not to walk by busy roads and will put him on lead if I was walking alongside one (nearly all of the time), However I would rarely put him on lead around the cul-de-sacs I live and the walks I take because they are all very quiet and most my walks are road free. However my dog is off lead on trails and paths and anywhere elses that isn't a busy road or an area of activity that would get him excited. Now to say somehow people like myself and shelly_stanlie are exasberating the staff problem is overstated to say the least. I put my dog on lead when any other on lead dog approaches and will get him to come to me and sit while anybody walks past be it bike or person.
> 
> ...


As long as they can "deal with the consequences"? the consequences of having your dog killed horrifically all for the sake of attaching a lead? the consequences of having to the pay for the damage of the vehicle the poor dog hit? the consequences of having the driver of the car and his/her passengers potentially hurt or even KILLED? as well as having to deal with the death or serious injury of your dog AND other people, the aftermath of such an incident could leave you financially crippled for life. The victims could sue you for everything you have because you would have broken the law and caused serious injury/death by gross negligence.

People that walk dogs loose by roads are completely ignorant and egotistical. The only reason people do it is to show off what "well trained dogs" they have. Of course, 9 times out of 10 these "well trained" dogs are either miles in front of their owners, miles behind their owners (I've watched owners walking ahead while their dog that is miles behind them is sniffing in the road or has crossed over entirely), or having to be shouted at every few seconds to heel.

I watched a man in town the other day with a young Collie pup which looked no older than 6-8 months. He was walking it along the busy road through town with no lead. Several times the dog made a beeline for the road and when the dog moved too far away, he raised his hand and the dog hit the deck cowering. This mans "training" was to threaten the dog with being hit. This dog was not "trained" but terrified and this is fairly normal for these egotistical morons.


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## WeimyLady (Jan 3, 2010)

Staffx said:


> Sorry goodvic2 I can't agree.
> 
> I walk my Staffx off lead most places, I tend not to walk by busy roads and will put him on lead if I was walking alongside one (nearly all of the time), However I would rarely put him on lead around the cul-de-sacs I live and the walks I take because they are all very quiet and most my walks are road free. However my dog is off lead on trails and paths and anywhere elses that isn't a busy road or an area of activity that would get him excited. Now to say somehow people like myself and shelly_stanlie are exasberating the staff problem is overstated to say the least. I put my dog on lead when any other on lead dog approaches and will get him to come to me and sit while anybody walks past be it bike or person.
> 
> ...


You are NOT helping anyone's perception of Staffords by walking them off leads by roads. You are actually hindering it. Remember that YOU know your dog is "well trained" but other people do not. Being off lead actually means that your dog is technically NOT under control and all other people will see is a Staff that is loose. They won't think; "Wow, that Staff is not on a lead so it must be really well trained". Chavs often have their Staffies off lead -- do people look at them and think their dogs are friendly, well behaved and under control? no! they are used to intimidate!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Staffx said:


> Sorry goodvic2 I can't agree.
> 
> I walk my Staffx off lead most places, I tend not to walk by busy roads and will put him on lead if I was walking alongside one (nearly all of the time), However I would rarely put him on lead around the cul-de-sacs I live and the walks I take because they are all very quiet and most my walks are road free. However my dog is off lead on trails and paths and anywhere elses that isn't a busy road or an area of activity that would get him excited. Now to say somehow people like myself and shelly_stanlie are exasberating the staff problem is overstated to say the least. I put my dog on lead when any other on lead dog approaches and will get him to come to me and sit while anybody walks past be it bike or person.
> 
> ...


See i just dont get this- what a faff having to attach and re attach a lead for every person, dog, bike- surely simpler to just have the dog on a lead anyway?
I also dont think that Goodvic2 meant the ONLY place for off lead dogs is the "park"- rather spaces away from roads/traffic.


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## Staffx (Jan 12, 2011)

Weimlady, yes those are the consequences, some people will take those risks call it what you won't, I don't, the only reason I said nealry all of the time is because I won't sit hear all self righteous (sp?) and say I have never walked my dog along a road that I should of put my dog on lead for because I probably have, I normally learn from this, feel a bit silly and don't do it again. Also if someone has or feels they have their dog very well trained and feel they won't to walk there dog everywhere off lead that is there choice, maybe they don't feel the risk of backfiring cars is that high. I don't think they are showing off I think the made a choice to train there dogs highly and are using that training.

You may not feel that we are helping the situation but I probably live in a very different place to you, on lead dog where I live is looked at differently to an off lead dog. We don't have a massive chav problem and by extension a massive staff problem the only reason for negative stereotyping of certain dogs round where I live is the media. There are lots of places for dogs to be walked off lead where I live and not that many roads so dogs on lead are a minority, not that there is anything wrong with having a dog on lead, just near me dogs tend to be off lead more and on lead for a reason.

Lexiedhb, it is not a faff, nothing is too much of a faff for my dog, he only gets put in lead by roads and other dogs on lead (as said above quite rare) and I just slip his lead on, no fuss. When people/bikes pass I just call him close and as they pass ask him to sit, I feel this is a polite gesture as my dog likes to meet people, I do not do this just because he is a staff.

I also thought that Goodvic2 didn't just mean park but it was the overall context of the post. My first priority is my dog not changing peoples perceptions, (call this selfish if you wish but I promise you a less selfish person you will not meet) I will try my hardest to change people perception after this because I love all dogs, I do this whether someone is bad mouthing a staff or a small dog in my earshot I will defend them and try to chnge the ignorant ways but I will not worry how every dicision I make impact other ignorant people.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

To me it is acceptable to have a dog off lead, where you would EXPECT to find one off lead....

The woods, bridal way, park, forest etc.

But not roads, cul de sacs etc ....


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## Staffx (Jan 12, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> To me it is acceptable to have a dog off lead, where you would EXPECT to find one off lead....
> 
> The woods, bridal way, park, forest etc.
> 
> But not roads, cul de sacs etc ....


And I would tend to agree with you, I just didn't agree that telling someone they are reinforcing staffy stereotypes by doing it, espepcially someone who (and this is only from what I have read on here as I do not know shelly_stanlie personally) loves the breed and is a great embassador (sp?) for it.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Staffx said:


> Sorry goodvic2 I can't agree.
> 
> I walk my Staffx off lead most places, I tend not to walk by busy roads and will put him on lead if I was walking alongside one (nearly all of the time), However I would rarely put him on lead around the cul-de-sacs I live and the walks I take because they are all very quiet and most my walks are road free. However my dog is off lead on trails and paths and anywhere elses that isn't a busy road or an area of activity that would get him excited. Now to say somehow people like myself and shelly_stanlie are exasberating the staff problem is overstated to say the least. I put my dog on lead when any other on lead dog approaches and will get him to come to me and sit while anybody walks past be it bike or person.
> 
> ...


If you live in an area where the staff isn't so vast in numbers as it is in big cities like London, then it is slightly different.

If you live in a quiet area and know your neighbours and your dog is well behaved, then I have no problem with that your dog off lead in a cul de sac.

My post was very generalistic. When you work in London and get to see the huge problem in places like Lambeth and Brixton, then I am sure you would be as enthusiastic as me in trying to promote the breed in a positive light.

I see idiot after idiot walking down the road with their staff, not on a lead. Or sometimes holding a chain capable of securing a large motorbike!

So I would like to see all dogs on a lead, particuarly staffs.

For you and shelly_stanlie who have these excellent examples of the breed, then I would like to see an example set. But this is not by walking your dog off lead, but by instoring confidence in the general public. This is only done by having a dog who is under control ON a lead.

You need to see the problem first hand to appreceiate it...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> To me it is acceptable to have a dog off lead, where you would EXPECT to find one off lead....
> 
> The woods, bridal way, park, forest etc.
> 
> But not roads, cul de sacs etc ....


Actually one of the things that annoys me as much as anything when I am out with mine in the middle of nowhere with mine (off lead) and when you least expect it someone pops from round a corner or out of a copse with an aggressive dog on lead that goes balmy when it sees you . I've said before these folk should be made to carry a bell or wear a big flashing hat!


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Staffx said:


> And I would tend to agree with you, I just didn't agree that telling someone they are reinforcing staffy stereotypes by doing it, espepcially someone who (and this is only from what I have read on here as I do not know shelly_stanlie personally) loves the breed and is a great embassador (sp?) for it.


I made it clear that I did not include her or her OH as one of these types of people.

But walk your staff off lead next to a road and the perception of the general public is NO different to that of the 18 year gang member.

When you have a staff different rules apply because of the image they have. If you don't like it then get a labrador....

I really don't see that I have said anything offensive.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I was thinking of this thread last night. There is a collie x (I think) walked off lead in our village, which has a fairly busy road running through it. I was in the garden late last night with Kilo and the collie x who was being walked spotted Kilo and ran across the road (luckily avoided being hit by an oncoming car) jumped up on our wall (only about 2-3ft tall - Kilo is always onlead in the garden) and started to have a go at Kilo. Kilo had a go back which I have never seen, but he was in his garden I suppose.

All the while this was going on the man walking the collie x was just shouting his dog's name; the dog wasn't taking a blind bit of notice. I managed to drag Kilo away from his dog and the man (who didn't have a lead on him) told me that that had never happened before as his dog is 100% trustworthy.....

....imagine my surprise when I looked out of the window an hour or so ago to see the same dog being walked alongside the road offlead . It is a disaster waiting to happen (although I hope it never does).


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## Staffx (Jan 12, 2011)

Goodvic2, I too may feel a bit more like you if I lived somewhere like London, I would have my dog on lead until I get to a park, I do that where I live now if we are trying to get somewhere just so we get there. I would like to think I set an example for staffies the best I can in the context of where I live, if I lived in London this may be different but as I don't live there I am not in a position to say.

The only reason I posted to disagree was becasue of you initial thread where I got the feeling (exasberated by all the capitals) that in some way good staff owner were in some way contributing to the problem by having there dogs offlead. Maybe I missed interpreted (definatley misinterpreted "everwhere but parks") but that is what can happen in written word so I apologise, but not everywhere in the uk is like London.

But I do agree walking your dog off lead near busy roads is dangerous and as every road in London is busy I would support you and say having your dogs off lead by roads in London is dangerous.


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> If you live in an area where the staff isn't so vast in numbers as it is in big cities like London, then it is slightly different.
> 
> If you live in a quiet area and know your neighbours and your dog is well behaved, then I have no problem with that your dog off lead in a cul de sac.
> 
> ...


This is a really good post - I live in Holloway and the majority of the dogs you see off lead by roads are staffs. Most of the time they seem to be really well behaved but this is next to incrediably busy roads - including Holloway Road. Now this isn't just a busy road but a busy pavement too and there is a high muslim population here and they often have real, cultural issues with dogs and will try to avoid them. This is obviously much harder for them if the dog is off lead and they don't know where it will go.

Staffs have a really bad reputation around here partly because of how some owners behave with them. It's really hard to change people's perception of staffs because they're constantly exposed to the bad examples in much higher concentrations then the good examples. Walking a dog off lead on a busy road doesn't help if people are pre-disposed to judge your dog badly however well behaved your particular dog maybe.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

I have two Rotties, both beautifully behaved, on and off the lead. I would never walk them down a road off lead, it's just not fair on drivers, people or anything else, anyway, the point I am trying to make is this; I hear people talk with their staffies under control and how it makes people see the good side of this breed, but there's another way of showing people how lovely staffies are, the same as Rotties, put them on a normal collar and lead, get them to walk by your side, with a slack loose lead, when people approach either with or without dogs/children etc. then ask your dogs to sit - simple! It gives everyone approaching that you have:

1. A staffie / rottie / dobe / gsd / jrt etc. etc.
2. it is on a lead;
3. it is under control;
4. you, the owner/handler, has spent time and effort training this dog to be a valuable member of the community, a credit to its breed;
5. it removes all doubt.

I know of two people who did not have their dogs on leads and walked them up and down roads for years, multiple dogs, and was told these dogs would never run out into the road - guess what.... one labrador was ran over by a car on a very quiet road, dog was a well trained labrador that went regularly on shoots - never did a thing wrong.... paid the ultimate price. The other dog, a GSD that competed in obedience to "C" level, ran infront of a car. 

What gave those handlers the right to assume their dogs were okay in traffic and subsequently, leave two drivers with a memory of knocking over and killing two dogs through no fault of their own?

No-one has 100% control of their dog, and you're fooling yourselves if you think you do.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Staffx said:


> Goodvic2, I too may feel a bit more like you if I lived somewhere like London, I would have my dog on lead until I get to a park, I do that where I live now if we are trying to get somewhere just so we get there. I would like to think I set an example for staffies the best I can in the context of where I live, if I lived in London this may be different but as I don't live there I am not in a position to say.
> 
> The only reason I posted to disagree was becasue of you initial thread where I got the feeling (exasberated by all the capitals) that in some way good staff owner were in some way contributing to the problem by having there dogs offlead. Maybe I missed interpreted (definatley misinterpreted "everwhere but parks") but that is what can happen in written word so I apologise, but not everywhere in the uk is like London.
> 
> But I do agree walking your dog off lead near busy roads is dangerous and as every road in London is busy I would support you and say having your dogs off lead by roads in London is dangerous.


I don't always write particuarly clearly LOL. Too interested in typing the next word.

x


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

8tansox said:


> What gave those handlers the right to assume their dogs were okay in traffic and subsequently, leave two drivers with a memory of knocking over and killing two dogs through no fault of their own?


This is really important I think - for everyone saying that it is their choice and has nothing to do with anyone else, if it all goes wrong then you've inflicted that choice on someone else and at the least put them through a traumatic event and at worst killed or injured them.


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## xshelly_stanliex (May 4, 2010)

Staffx said:


> And I would tend to agree with you, I just didn't agree that telling someone they are reinforcing staffy stereotypes by doing it, espepcially someone who (and this is only from what I have read on here as I do not know shelly_stanlie personally) loves the breed and is a great embassador (sp?) for it.


I just wanna say thank you and we do, do our up most too represent the breed. and think from comments we have recieved that we have done so. they love people other dogs etc etc are always well behaved. 
Only the other day i had a rather pch lady with 2 king charles say too oh they are very well behaved dggies arnt they.

Where i live too there isnt a big amount of staffs only a few, our neighbours adore our boys and one has a staffy n douge de boudex. and they cant believe how well behaved they are and how well they get on.

We get people crossing roads etc but this is when hooch is on a lead and ive said before we do not walk him offlead all the time its only now and again and wouldnt do it if my oh didnt trust him 100%.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I am still interested to hear if people who walk off leads where there are cars have ever seen a dog hit by a car? Or been in a car that he's hit a dog? In one instance we went bump bump over the screaming dog awful. It is a pretty horrible experience even if they survive and i cringe inside when I see dogs off leads by roads even quiet ones as would never want another dog to be run over unnecessarily


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

I knew i'd seen this somewhere (turns out to be on the lamppost to the right of my front gate ) I can't imagine Surrey heath are alone in this.


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

EmCHammer said:


> I am still interested to hear if people who walk off leads where there are cars have ever seen a dog hit by a car? Or been in a car that he's hit a dog? In one instance we went bump bump over the screaming dog awful. It is a pretty horrible experience even if they survive and i cringe inside when I see dogs off leads by roads even quiet ones as would never want another dog to be run over unnecessarily


Didn't you say you saw this in India? where dogs are not pets and are treated as wild animals. Unfortunately this happens all the time in India, very sad


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Livesey said:


> Didn't you say you saw this in India? where dogs are not pets and are treated as wild animals. Unfortunately this happens all the time in India, very sad


One of the sadest sights I saw was in india! (well actually this time I am talking of Goa) White dogs flea infested and with mange, undernourished and on top of that sunburnt standing in the sea to try and get a little relief! If I had been capable and had the medication I would have put many to sleep! My heart bled!


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

yeah Goa was where we went and saw the dogs, very odd to see dogs treated the way they are. the only way I could describe it to friends is the way we are with foxes except we actually care for poor ones. We done some dog walking at a sanctuary out there was great to help out although felt odd as they were cared for then returned to where they were found :confused1:


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I have been in a car that hit a dog in this country (dog ran out of gate) and dog was OK; and our old family dog was run over and survived; both horrible experiences 

Have been to india quite a few times, last time we went and we ran over a dog and we bumped right over it was horrible. the other one I saw was a puppy that had been squashed when run over but was still alive I wont go into details but people were throwing up and someone came out and shot it - which was the best thing; the screams were terrible.

We have seen some right sad sights in india with poor mangy dogs.


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

EmCHammer said:


> I have been in a car that hit a dog in this country (dog ran out of gate) and dog was OK; and our old family dog was run over and survived; both horrible experiences
> 
> Have been to india quite a few times, last time we went and we ran over a dog and we bumped right over it was horrible. the other one I saw was a puppy that had been squashed when run over but was still alive I wont go into details but people were throwing up and someone came out and shot it - which was the best thing; the screams were terrible.
> 
> We have seen some right sad sights in india with poor mangy dogs.


wow, no offence but how unlucky are you to be witness to so many dogs run over :sad:


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

I would never visit a country which treated it's dogs so badly. I would never even go back to Greece. 

I would have no enjoyment on my hols, at seeing suffering dogs... X


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I would never visit a country which treated it's dogs so badly. I would never even go back to Greece.
> 
> I would have no enjoyment on my hols, at seeing suffering dogs... X


If only EVERYONE thought as you did the world would be a better place for animals! They would soon alter their ways if their income dropped thprough lack of visitors!


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I would never visit a country which treated it's dogs so badly. I would never even go back to Greece.
> 
> I would have no enjoyment on my hols, at seeing suffering dogs... X


I think the way we looked at it was that the way the dogs were treated is no different to the way we treat our wild animals like foxes/badgers, they regularly roam the streets, mangy and often with wounds but we don't do anything to help them and they are considered a pest. However there cows are treated like our dogs, very well looked after so I guess for us its just a culture thing and we done our bit by helping out at the shelter and giving money to the sanctuary for medicines etc


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Livesey said:


> I think the way we looked at it was that the way the dogs were treated is no different to the way we treat our wild animals like foxes/badgers, they regularly roam the streets, mangy and often with wounds but we don't do anything to help them and they are considered a pest. However there cows are treated like our dogs, very well looked after so I guess for us its just a culture thing and we done our bit by helping out at the shelter and giving money to the sanctuary for medicines etc


I agree it's probably a culture thing. But I still don't agree with it. I would not give my money to have a miserable holiday..

Places in the far east which eat dogs and u can go to a market to choose the dog in a cage, disgust me.

For the life of me I don't get why u would encourage this though tourism...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Livesey said:


> I think the way we looked at it was that the way the dogs were treated is no different to the way we treat our wild animals like foxes/badgers, they regularly roam the streets, mangy and often with wounds but we don't do anything to help them and they are considered a pest. However there cows are treated like our dogs, very well looked after so I guess for us its just a culture thing and we done our bit by helping out at the shelter and giving money to the sanctuary for medicines etc


But we don't rely on them visiting our country in order to fund our shelters!

They - as in my example Goa, rely on tourism to live!


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I agree it's probably a culture thing. But I still don't agree with it. I would not give my money to have a miserable holiday..
> 
> Places in the far east which eat dogs and u can go to a market to choose the dog in a cage, disgust me.
> 
> For the life of me I don't get why u would encourage this though tourism...


I don't encourage this type of culture at all, by any means! I just think that if a country loved foxes or badgers the way we think about dogs they'd probably think we were awful with the way we treated them. They are not pets to them so they are not treated as such. Every country has there own pests/vermin and for some countrys like India they are just that whereas there cows are treated as sacride. India and a lot of far east countries don't 'do' pets, its just a way of life. I don't like it and I am not condoning it. Anyway we are going wayy of topic...


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## Livesey (Sep 28, 2011)

DT said:


> But we don't rely on them visiting our country in order to fund our shelters!
> 
> They - as in my example Goa, rely on tourism to live!


But they wouldn't change there ways if there income suddenly dropped through tourism, you can't turn round to a huge country and say all of a sudden the animals on the street that you see as vermin (although pets to us) need to be suddenly a pet to them. It would be the same as saying that the whole of england needs to take in badgers and foxes as pets because we see them as vermin. I know it wouldn't affect our tourism because we are a vastly richer country.


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## Ducky (Nov 23, 2008)

i havent read all 20 pages of replies to this, coz im lazy.

but no never ever, no way whatsoever would i do this.

it gives me chills up my spine seeing dogs offlead near roads. my dad used to walk our first dog offlead all the time, and he was great usually and would wait at roads etc. but twice he picked up the wrong signal from my dad to cross the road, and went in front of a car. TWICE. thankfully he was never seriously hurt.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Seems people will do as they please and if that involves risking their dogs lives so be it, even if it is illegal! 

I feel pretty confident that unless a car mounts the pavement none of mine are likely to be run over. Just like I always held the hands of my children near roads I hold my dogs leads. Simply love them too much to play dangerous games for no reason.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

The problem as I see it is however much evidence there is to say something is dangerous there are always those who are willing to take the chance for whatever reasons. However much you try to persuade them they will still justify their actions as an acceptable risk. 

All I hope is I never have the misfortune of running over a dog or witnessing someone else actually do this. I know if I did I would be deeply distressed by the experience and it would haunt me for the rest of my life. But then its me that would have to live with that.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> I also think that off lead dogs can be intimidating
> You expect it in the park, but not walking down the street.
> 
> I feel very strongly about this and feel that it should be a legal requirement for all dogs to be on a lead apart from in designated places.


I agree wholeheartedly. 
Bear in mind, OP, not all people are dog owners or doglovers. I do not have dogs and I am a little nervous of large unknown dogs. I would feel intimidated to have to walk past an unknown large dog who is offlead. To you he is cute. To me, I don't know. I do not feel it is right that I feel intimidated when walking along the street minding my own business. Many dog owners do not seem to realise this. "Don't worry, he won't bite" is not always reassuring to me.


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