# Withheld at shows



## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Is there an amount of times that A dog can be withheld and no longer allowed to compete?


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## cava14 una (Oct 21, 2008)

Not totally sure what you are asking.

Do you mean if a judge withholds a place and that happened several times would the dog be stopped competing? 
I would say no but if it was my dog I might stop

Or do you you mean if a judge dismisses a dog from the ring for aggression say would that dog be allowed to compete again? 

That would go to the KC who would make a decision

Not totally sure if that's correct


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

If a judge withheld the placing due to whatever reason. Is there a limit to how many times the dog was withheld? Or say for example, if the same dog is withheld by different judges 3 times...would it then not be allowed to compete in the future?

Thankfully, it's not my dog but if it were, then it would be obvious that the dog was unhappy and I wouldn't continue to put him/her through that


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

a judge has the right to withhold a placing for whatever reason. however another judge may not withhold. If how ever the dog was say aggressive and the judge asked it to be removed form the ring i'd be very cautious about entering it at a show again. However the dog might just backaway from the judge and would need more practice to over come its fear.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

If the dog was mine if 2 different judges thought it wasn't worth placing even if there was only a few in the class I don't think I would bother wasting my money showing it again.

At a champ show a few years ago the italian greyhound judge only placed 1 bitch in the post grad bitch class. One of the bitches that was in the class and was with held from was Mac and Micca's mother. At the next show she not only won the post grad bitch class but also went on to win the RCC. Just because one judge doesn't think the dog is worthy of a place other judges might like that dog.

At a recent open show a dog went into the open class the breed only had 4 classes. This particular dog was sitting on 2 CC's it only came 3rd in its class. The judge knew what it had won I heard him talking to someone later and he said despite what it had won he didn't think it deserved more than 3rd place. The puppy winner took best of breed and best pup, the adult group 3 puppy group 1 and RBPIS. The dog sitting on 2 CC's went to a champ show the following weekend and won its 3rd and crowning CC yet in the open show judges opinion it didn't warrent better than 3rd place in its class at an open show. Different judges like different things and yes the judge was a breed speciaalist and not an all rounder.


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## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

I would be pretty annoyed if my dog got withheld. 

Freyja, that's a good story. Gives us against "faces" or well known breeders hope.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

I've never seen a dog get withheld in a class before, I thought it didn't really happen much, or that the dog had to be spectacularly bad for it to be refused a place in a small class.

How do they do it? Is it all very discreet or does everyone know the dog has been withheld? I'd be so embarrassed it happened to a dog of mine!


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

I know the reasons behind withholding, just wondered wether there was a limit on how many times it could happen and if there was a ban?

Tiger....I've only seen it a handful of times. Each time the judge has asked the dog to leave the ring so it's obvious but done as discreetly as possible! The judge has to inform the exhibitor of his reasons and the KC but doesn't announce it.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I forgot about the other time I saw a place with held. It was a Midland Counties champ show it was the first time I showed a greyhound William was in the puppy dog class which he won. When it came to the limit dog class there was only 1 entry an ex racer she went into the ring the judge went over it watched him move then dissmissed him from the ring. His excuse was he didn't think the dog was good enough to gain his stud book number. Now in greyhounds you only get your stud book number for 1st in open or winning the CC or RCC. All the other exhibitors wete going mad people were refusing to go in for other classes the chief steward was fetched and eventually they got the rule book out and the judge was informed the dog wouldn't gain his stud book and so the dog was called back into the ring and awarded 1st place.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

There is no limit on the amount of times a judge may withold placing any dogs or one dog; there is nothing to prevent any dog of any quality entering as many shows as the owner wishes however it may be a complete waste of time and money.

This of course is totally different from a judge asking an exhibit to leave the ring due to unacceptable behaviour etc.


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## cava14 una (Oct 21, 2008)

smokeybear said:


> There is no limit on the amount of times a judge may withold placing any dogs or one dog; there is nothing to prevent any dog of any quality entering as many shows as the owner wishes however it may be a complete waste of time and money.
> 
> This of course is totally different from a judge asking an exhibit to leave the ring due to unacceptable behaviour etc.


That's what I was trying to say :crazy:


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

There is no limit how many times a dog can be withheld from if this is done because of it's quality rather than it's temperament.

I have withheld a few times when judging ...personally I think it should be done more often at Champ level for dogs that are untypical or unsound. So often I 've seen dogs in the Crufts ring and thought " how the heck did it qualify ? .

Personally I like the FCI system of grading all dogs entered and only awarding a qualifying place , a stud book number , BOB, CC and Res CC's to those with a grading of 'Excellent'.

I also think all Championship shows should have CC's for all breeds scheduled this would increase entries and allow a much greater geographic spread of CC's ..here in the East we only have two Champ shows one of which is Boston who hardly have any tickets available ! ......CC's at all Champ shows would not lead to 'Cheap Champions' if judges were prepared to withhold if the quality was not there.

Having said all this I see no point in withholding at Open show level , at these shows we should be encouraging newcomers into the sport and allowing young dogs to learn the ropes with no pressure ...I would still give out gradings though so that all exhibitors have a clear idea of what the judge thought of their dogs ...not just the first and second placed ones who currently are the only ones to get any kind of critique .


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