# Rehomed cat scratching at door and carpet



## georgefan (Dec 18, 2009)

Hi

I rehomed a 5 year old male cat yesterday and he is settling in really well. I only have one niggle, he keeps scratching at the one door and carpet, because he knows it leads to outside. It will be a while before he will be allowed out, and I don't want to have to keep saying no to him.

Has anyone got any advice on how to stop him doing this? When he claws the carpet we can't open the door from the other side, so I'm worried he will get stuck in that room 

Also, I don't think he has used his litter tray yet, although I may be wrong. he is eating and drinking well.

I've never had a cat before so any advice would be fantastic


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I have a lot of foster waifs and strays (shelter cats) come through my home and this kind of behavior is common enough. You can buy things in pet shops called sticky paws (basically strong double sided sticky strips) if you stick them on to the carpet around the door area, that should stop him scratching there, but it will mean you have to jump over them. You can also improvise this and do it with duct tape stuck on the carpet sticky side UP. Another thing you could try ( a lot of people have success with this, but it never really works for me) is aluminium foil placed over the carpet around the door. The theory is cats dont like tin foil and wont walk or scratch there I only have success with this on smallish surfaces like shelves. No harm trying though. 

I also strongly suggest you do something so if he does claw he cant actually lift the carpet up maybe stick the carpet down properly first. The very fact the carpet is obviously a bit loose at the doorway is . Well sorry, its like an invitation to a cat to scratch. 

Best of luck and rest assured these behaviours will pass and they are very normal. Try to pay as little attention to his "let me out" pleas as possible. If you start getting "awwwww you poor boy, it's just for a month or so"... he will pick up on your "feeling guilty" vibes and play on them and increase his behaviour. It's best to totally ignore it.


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## georgefan (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanx hun.

He's been better today, and has used his litter tray I will get some of the sticky paws tomorrow and give that a whirl


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

every time your cat misbehaves give it an alternative

if you have a good cat tree, teach cat to use it instead of the carpet

it is my experience that cats dont like faux fur and sissal rope so all my cat trees are carpet

when cat scratches carpet, pick cat up and put up against cat tree and take cats paws in your hands and gently make scratching motions without extending claws and repeat in a whisper 'scratch scratch scratch'

and tell your cat what a good kitty it is

during the training do this often and not only as a result of scratchign in the worng place and always make it a special together time

sometimes when you see your cat scratching the tree join in, in a social scratch beside where the cat is scratching .

also use time out cage - the carry cage is a good one for this, you dont want anything that might be interpreted as a reward so that is why I suggest a carry cage which is small and very boring

if your cat does the wrong thing put it in the cage for a bit

some ppl have made the error of throwing their cat outside every time they caught it scratchign the sofa and the cat interpreted that as a good way to get to be let outsidedand they sofa is ruined

so make sure if the cat is doign the wrong thing you do not inadvertently give it something it does want

the time out cage seems to work well

I have successfully stopped my cats scratchign the door during the night

when they scratched the door and woke me i picked cat up and placed in carry cage till morning. if they meowed and carried on i put them in the bathroom inside the carry cage which is small and boring

none of my cats lasted longer than givign me more than 2 nights disturbed sleep as they know they will not getwhat they want - only time out in the cage

the trick is to give the cat something it does not want when it is doign somethign wrong

alas putting cat in toilet will not work because the toilet is roomy and interesting

so carry cage is my best option for time out cage

i need to add here that during the night the time out has never exceeded 3 hours and during the day 30 minute time out is more usual

and it does work and the cats do understand - they are much more intelligent then we think and respond well to being given direction

others also use this method

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/460515/use_a_cat_kennel_for_time_out_when.html?cat=53


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## louiserp1 (Jul 14, 2010)

Personally, I'm not keen on the carry cage time out. We use that for trips to the vet and kittys are stressed enough. 
I have read about using citrus spray so we are going to try this on the upstairs door as that's where our cat stands to scratch as she wants to be upstairs. We'll probably try the tin foil too. Good luck


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

louiserp1 said:


> *Personally, I'm not keen on the carry cage time out. *We use that for trips to the vet and kittys are stressed enough.
> I have read about using citrus spray so we are going to try this on the upstairs door as that's where our cat stands to scratch as she wants to be upstairs. We'll probably try the tin foil too. Good luck


Me neither, I'm afraid it sounds rather cruel. Akin to locking a child in the cupboard under the stairs, not that I would advocate that either


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

would it be best to de sensitise your cat from being so anxious about the carry cage?

Perhaps leaving the cage down and open so that kitty can explore at leisure would do the trick - it may make going to the vet in future less stressful


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> every time your cat misbehaves give it an alternative
> 
> if you have a good cat tree, teach cat to use it instead of the carpet
> 
> ...


You did what?  Oh dear, your poor cat 

OP, please don't take such horrid advice. It's just cruel.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> would it be best to de sensitise your cat from being so anxious about the carry cage?
> 
> Perhaps leaving the cage down and open so that kitty can explore at leisure would do the trick - it may make going to the vet in future less stressful


I'm all for de-senstising cats so they like going into their cat carrier

but making a cat feel happy and relaxed in a cat carrier is one thing, encourage them to go in and out of, give them treats in it, etc etc, that's all perfectly fine, even comendable...

but using it as a time out form of punishment place... nope.

Don't agree with that


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

Tje said:


> I'm all for de-senstising cats so they like going into their cat carrier
> 
> but making a cat feel happy and relaxed in a cat carrier is one thing, encourage them to go in and out of, give them treats in it, etc etc, that's all perfectly fine, even comendable...
> 
> ...


Totally agree with this post. You can't get your cat to be relaxed and happy in the place you double up as punishment. It's cruel and would cause confusion for the cat


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> when they scratched the door and woke me i picked cat up and *placed in carry cage till morning*. if they meowed and carried on i put them in the bathroom inside the carry cage which is small and boring
> 
> none of my cats lasted longer than givign me more than 2 nights disturbed sleep as they know they will not getwhat they want - only time out in the cage


I strongly suggest that no one follows the above advice unless they want their already problematic cat to get even more problematic.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

As someone who has had a long battle with behaviour issues I'm saddened to read that someone thinks that putting a cat/kitten into a carry cage is a way to correct unwanted behaviour.This is in my opinion totally wrong.What can that possibly teach apart from fear and distrust of the person who has placed it in there.What happens if the cat needs to pee or worse,this will just add more distress to the poor cat.Physical and verbal punishment has no place in behaviour training.It just doesnt work.


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## Shimacat (Feb 14, 2010)

I've also heard that cats (unlike dogs) can't be trained by negative reinforcement (i.e. telling them off or punishment); that they only respond to positive reinforcement (i.e. rewarding correct behaviour).

This means that any form of 'time out' for the cat is utterly pointless. I think it's likely to lead to a cat being doubly stressed by the carry-cage, and that seems rather cruel.


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## MatildaG (Nov 8, 2010)

How is it even possible to put a cat in a carry case overnight - how does it get to it's litter tray, food and water???

I would have a very upset and probably soiled kitten on my hands if I were to do that with mine (which I wouldn't!!!) 

MG x


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

MatildaG said:


> How is it even possible to put a cat in a carry case overnight - *how does it get to it's litter tray, food and water*???
> 
> I would have a very upset and probably soiled kitten on my hands if I were to do that with mine (which I wouldn't!!!)
> 
> MG x


I guess the answer to that is..... they don't (get food water or access to litter trays). I stayed out of a recent discussion where someone used (effectively and over a period of years) the cat carrier for short time-outs. Like 5 or 10 minutes. While I won't do it even for 5 minutes... well... I can see there might be other views on short time-outs. But overnight... I am .... speechless.

We're not even allowed to leave cat-traps unattended for any length of time.


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

I am talking about an adult cat

and its not all night 

and metabolism slows down during normal sleep time so there is no need to go pee etc

picture this

3 am in the morning and the cat starts scratching at the door
I get up and check what might the cat want and there is nothing

she continues to scratch
so I place her in a carry cage till 6 am

she is in the carry cage about 2 and a half hours during the time her metabolism is slowed down naturally

what? you never ever had a cat in a carry cage for any reason for that long? not when traveling some distance?

so after 2 such treatments my cats do not wake me up at 3 am in the morning

I am sorry you all think it is cruel

I dont think I was cruel


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> I am talking about an adult cat
> 
> and its not all night
> 
> ...


Did you word it to mean only a few hours? NO! Anyone coming to the thread and reading your first reply will possibly think it's OK to shut a cat in a carrier over night. For some people overnight can mean 9+ hours! When folks google things like this they aren't going to bother reading the rest of the thread, just your post. It's dangerous advice.

Someone on the forums posted recently about a kitten that died after being shut in a crate (which is much bigger) for long periods of time without access to food and drink ... and it did have a litter tray!

Please think carefully when replying with such advice.

Plus using a carrier for punishment is just quite cruel, IMO.


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## Sparkles87 (Aug 30, 2010)

If I was to shut William in his carrier for any reason other than a vet trip I am almost 100% sure he would spend the whole time screaming his head off - he has such a high pitched kitten meow that it's hard to ignore and he is VERY persistent. This would equal a very guilty me and an even more distressed William * looks at ginger fur ball purring in lap and feels guilty at the thought * 

I don't agree with the whole idea; it's a bit harsh, and probably would have no positive effect in a lot of cases. As in Williams case, any kind of time out (say, removing him from the living room for five minutes) just causes him to be very frustrated and upset. Although many cats are fine with this kind of time out, I doubt many would be ok with it taking place over an extended period of time in a cat carrier. 

I'm sure you'll find something that works OP 
Best of luck,
Sparkles
xx


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> ...none of my cats lasted longer than givign me more than 2 nights disturbed sleep as they know they will not getwhat they want - only time out in the cage


Maybe they don't disturb you because they are scared. It may be effective but it is sad because I doubt that they are spending their time out thinking 'I was naughty to do that so I mustn't do it again'. They are more likely to be confused and thinking 'this is scary why am I here? I musn't go to her if I need anything because she'll do this to me'. Not a great learning experience in my view


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> I am talking about an adult cat
> 
> and its not all night
> 
> ...


Why would you think a cats metabolism would be slowed down when placed in a stressed situation ie shut in a confined space like a cat carrier.If I had a cat in a carrier for long periods it would be monitored and most definitly not be feeling it was being punished for doing something that i had found to annoy me.You say you get up and find nothing that the cat wants,how do you know ,do you speak catUsually in the middle of the night if a cat has been excluded from a room all it wants is to be beside you,and your reaction to that is to shut it in a cat carrier for a few hours That is most definitely cruel and will serve no purpose other than to cause unneccessary confusion to the cat.


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## Gernella (Dec 14, 2008)

I thought I was the only one with the problem of carpet scratching so thanks for the ideas. It doesn't happen very often and fortunately the object of affections is our oldest carpet so I suppose he thinks he is helping me. He also does it in the middle of the night so I suppose he is hacked off because he has been banned from the bedroom because of a little peeing on the bed problem a couple of years ago.

Not sure about putting in a carrier as for most cats it means a visit to the dreaded VET so that would cause more stress.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Try placing a thick rubber mat in front of the door, with another temporarily pasted onto the bottom part of the door. This cuts down on noise and damage from scratching, plus the rubber isn't very satisfactory for the cat to scratch. Then ignore the scratching or divert the cat with play. If you are firm, they soon realise it is a useless exercise.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> 3 am in the morning and the cat starts scratching at the door
> I get up and check what might the cat want and there is nothing


May I ask if this is the bedroom door? Or the front door? I like our bedroom door to be closed (fear of the Bogeyman ), so I put in a cat flap (removed the flappy bit) in the bedroom door so they can get in and out of the bedroom without disturbing us.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> May I ask if this is the bedroom door? Or the front door? I like our bedroom door to be closed (fear of the Bogeyman ), so I put in a cat flap (removed the flappy bit) in the bedroom door so they can get in and out of the bedroom without disturbing us.


That is just brilliant!:lol::lol::lol:


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

The handyman that installed the flap thought I was crazy. "Missus, your cats are spoilt"


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## rachael (Jul 30, 2008)

I only read a few other replies, but here are my suggestions..

I've had no luck with sticky tape, but some people say they have-- so you may want to try that. Now since your kitty is scratching at the ground, try getting a horizontal scratching post and put it next to the door and put some catnip on it. 

With the catnip there, your kitty will prefer to scratch this as opposed to the carpet-- just make sure not to get any on the carpet xD

Do not try to punish your cat with a cage! Cats don't respond to punishment the same way that dogs do. Instead of associating the behavior with the punishment, they will associated you with the punishment!


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> The handyman that installed the flap thought I was crazy. "Missus, your cats are spoilt"


That's not too bad...my husband thinks I'm crazy!:lol:


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

yes so scared that they use that same carry cage for fun and sleep in it sometimes on purpose


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

all my cats sleep in my room with ne and on my bed and I have several clean kitter boxes

I know the cats metabolism slows down for domesticated cats during their normal sleeping time because most of my cats last all night and dont need to pee at all

just observation


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

it is the bedroom door and my cats all sleep with me on my bed

sometimes I get a cat wake me up because she had loose stools and needs her butt rinsed under the tap

washing cat backside video by whiteb89 - Photobucket


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> all my cats sleep in my room with ne and on my bed and I have several clean kitter boxes
> 
> I know the cats metabolism slows down for domesticated cats during their normal sleeping time because most of my cats last all night and dont need to pee at all
> 
> just observation


Miss_miss, I mean no offence by this, but please think before posting such advice.

Plus like I said earlier by stating what you do in the first post you made on this thread it could lead to cats/kittens suffering out there. If someone were to google in the future about punishing a naughty cat, or preventing your cat from scratching at the bedroom door at bed time ... well you gave them the excuse they need, and not all people will be talking about 3 hours, as I said before many people sleep 9+ hours and they would take your first post to mean that is acceptable.

Since google searches usually link to the relevant post, they would have no reason to read the rest of the thread, where they would find that many of us do not agree with punishing a cat in such a way and even you would not dream of doing it ALL night.

It's dangerous advice to find so easily for new owners that wouldn't know it was dangerous unless someone pointed it out. If they are googling at 12am because their cat has woken them, they will be looking for an answer so they can go back to bed in peace ... Since PF rates pretty high on google your post will eventually most likely come up on the first page.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> it is the bedroom door and my cats all sleep with me on my bed
> 
> sometimes I get a cat wake me up because she had loose stools and needs her butt rinsed under the tap
> 
> washing cat backside video by whiteb89 - Photobucket


 I don't know what to say to that!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> it is the bedroom door and my cats all sleep with me on my bed
> 
> sometimes I get a cat wake me up because she had loose stools and needs her butt rinsed under the tap
> [/url]


Is this the same cat who's metabolism has slowed down and therefore doesnt need to poo/pee through the night.


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

hardly

the one with the problem is 19 years old and my other cats are around 8 years old


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

buffie said:


> Is this the same cat who's metabolism has slowed down and therefore doesnt need to poo/pee through the night.


laughed out loud at that one, lol.

Miss Miss.. do you see the point Buffie is making (and Aurelia for that matter, heck everyone on this thread!!) ... I havent watched the video but assume that it's of a cat with a runny bum... if this cat had got the runny bum in the period that you had given her a "time out" in the middle of the night in a cat carrier, well without being too blunt about it, the cat would have been sleeping and lying in its own $hit. That is NOT good. That can always happen with ANY cat. Your personal experience of cats metabolism or cats that don't poop or pee in the night, is just that... personal experience based on a few cats ... not fact based on study. Many cats DO poop and pee in the night. If you must cage your cats for hours long in the night, atleast invest in a proper pen that is large enough to accomodate the cat and a litter tray. Though why anyone would even want to do this with pet cats is beyond me. In some countries there are laws and people who cage cats would be liable for prosecution, depending on the length of time and the size of the cage they use. But even in countries with no laws, this just isn't on.


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

this cat has never had to be disciplined in all her 19 years 

sorry you have got it totally wrong

the video is not anything you should be afraid to look at - it is of me washign her relatively clean butt under running tap

it may provide a tip or two to someone

i find that cats actually prefer I rinse them rather than having to wash themselves

I have a big cage that can have litter box and food in it but it is not a deterrent in any way because the cat thinks it has its own room - sort of like sendign a kid to his room and he has tv and games and all sorts of entertainment in the room

as I said - time out is meant to be somethign the cat does not want - if i give the cat something that the cat does want then the bad behaviour will continue so that the cat can get that own room


anyhow - I dont have any problem behaviours - you however may live however you choose


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I suppose all cats are different. My cats seem to prefer pooping in the dead of night...I check their trays before I go to bed, and there is always a nice "gift" waiting for me in the morning.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> I have a big cage that can have litter box and food in it but it is not a deterrent in any way because the cat thinks it has its own room - sort of like sendign a kid to his room and he has tv and games and all sorts of entertainment in the room
> 
> as I said - time out is meant to be somethign the cat does not want - if i give the cat something that the cat does want then the bad behaviour will continue so that the cat can get that own room


Exactly, time out for a cat (if you believe that even works, which most knowledgable owners know doesn't work), should be something like restricting a child to his/her bedroom, that IS punishment enough for a child, and the very reason most people send their child to their room for time-out and not to a cupboard under the stairs!!!!! What you are doing IS the equivalent of going overboard with punishment.

Time out for a cat (which very very few people believe in) could easily be achieved with a proper large cat pen that fits the cats most basic needs (moving and toileting). Putting a cat in a carrier for hours overnight is frankly *cruel* and *counter productive*.

I know you (Miss Miss) dont want to accept this or even hear it, so I am not saying it for _your_ benefit but for the benefit of other people who may stumble across this post in the future, who are willing to hear two sides of a story and reach a conclusion from there. What you are doing might not be illegal (depending on where you live) but it sure as heck should be.

There is nothing to be gained from locking a cat up for hours in a carrier... but very very much can be lost.


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## georgefan (Dec 18, 2009)

OMG! What did I start!

I am so sorry for anyone being upset on this thread when I asked for advice 

Joey has stopped scratching at the door, I bought some spray from the pet shop which smells of lemon and sprayed the door. The carpet is now glued down. If he does start to scratch I just say "Joey" in a firm but not loud voice and he stops.

I shut him in my dining room/kitchen overnight with his food, water and litter tray.Provided we are not sat in the living room, we have no problems with scratching overnight at all.

He has scratched the sofa once, but again I just said his name firmly and he stopped. He is really easy going, and have had no other problems with him at all.

Thanks for all your advice everyone- much appreciated.

Mel xx :thumbup:


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## louiserp1 (Jul 14, 2010)

Yah, looks like he's getting there. Glad the lemon spray works.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> this cat has never had to be disciplined in all her 19 years
> 
> sorry you have got it totally wrong
> 
> ...


Yeah, and also shows how to rip clumps of fur from your cats delicate parts too!


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

you misinterpret lol

that was some dried up poo 

lol

and the cat was not in any discomfort


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## Shimacat (Feb 14, 2010)

'Time out' works for those sentient beings who can associate an act with a punishment (kids, dogs, etc). Cats *do not* do this - they do not learn by negative reinforcement.

Anyone with a cat knows cats can be trained. They learn the sound of a tin being opened, or a cat biscuit packet rustling, and they associate that with being fed. That's why you end up with cats around your feet when you're making dinner. That's positive reinforcement. And that's the only way to get a cat to do something you want it to do.

Punishing a cat for doing something bad simply makes it scared of you, whether that punishment is being shouted at; smacked, or time out in a small cage. They don't understand the reason - all they understand is that the person who feeds them is now being awful to them. So - they get scared of your unpredictable behaviour, and wary of you.


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

with all due respect the things I have done have worked 100%

if you dont do it my way then that is perfectly ok - keep doing what works for you

cats are very smart - much smarter than you think they are

I tell you I had a certain cat wake up at 3 am and start scratchign the door thinking I will get out of bed and feedher

when I put her in the carry cage till 6 am she knew that the next time she scratched at 3 am and woke me I will not do her bidding and will not feed her

so she now is a perfect little sleep partner

I have tried in a few things to reprimand my cats - I stopped a serious pee problem etc and a serious bullying problem

I totally understand it may not be what you or others would do

so those who have problems - continue with what you prefer to do

I prefer not to have problems and nip problems in the bud as fast as I can

cheers


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> with all due respect the things I have done have worked 100%
> 
> if you dont do it my way then that is perfectly ok - keep doing what works for you
> 
> ...


Does it not strike you as strange that out of all the replies to your "methods" there has not been one person who agree's with you.I dont pretend to be experienced in cat behavior,but many of the members that have replied to your posts are, and we are all agreed,we would not recommend your approach to anyone with behaviour problems with their cats.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> with all due respect the things I have done have worked 100%
> 
> if you dont do it my way then that is perfectly ok - keep doing what works for you
> 
> ...


Hi miss miss, I get the impression you're missing the point that people are trying to make to you? Everyone has their own way of doing things and it's natural for us cat lovers to want what we think is best for our cats. The difficulty is when the advice you're posting on here promotes punishment and reprimanding cats, not just on this thread, but on others you have posted on too. This information is accessible to all internet users. This 'advice', however well meaning, has the potential to cause harm to a cat and that is not something PF should be encouraging under any circumstances. I would just ask you to stop and think before you post 'advice' and how this may be interpreted by others who are not so knowledgable about cat welfare. Thank you


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> I prefer not to have problems and nip problems in the bud as fast as I can


what you do with your cats in your home doesn't really interest me. However, what you write in this forum does. When I see you spouting potentially dangerous and downright cruel manners of controlling cats behaviour, rest assured I will call you on it. Locking a toddler in a broom cupboard would definitely stop it wandering into mum and dad's room looking for attention at 3am, but that does not mean it is legal or acceptable or humane. And neither are your "cat training" tactics.


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## MatildaG (Nov 8, 2010)

Miss miss, I don't want to cause any offence but I wondered if you might consider taking away some of the hints and tips that other people are providing to stop the unwanted behaviour of your cats in future? I just find it very sad that your cats are being punished when there are other ways to go about it.

If someone said to me I can solve a problem by either a) punishing my cat or b) rewarding my cat - I know which I'd go for. 

And in if you do insist on the caging of your cats to punish them, I'd urge you to reconsider using a large pen of some kind rather than the carrier. I very much doubt the cat's reaction to this is "ooh my own room, goody" - cat's don't care about having their own room. Mine is forced to have his own room at the moment as he has a broken leg and needs to be confined - he hates it and wants to come out at every opportunity.

MG x


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

i have owned 23 cats and i caged 1 cat for 2 nights in her 10 years of life and no other cat got punished fro anything all their life

she got 1 punishment for 2 nights for her entire life and no other punishment whatsoever

I dont think that is excessive

I do have a large cat cage set up right now because the elderly cat - the one who is 19 - has loose stools due to old age

she does consider it a treat and she does consider it that she has her own room

if you think I implied that I use time out cage all the time you are very wrong. They have access to it all the time because they like to lie in it just for fun but i dont close the door - it is just for fun


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

23 catsThat is a hell of a lot of cats.Did they all manage their alotted 15+ years.You must have a lot of room or are a lot older than I think you are.How can you say you punish a cat.That is totally wrong.Why would you think it is right to "punish" an animal.You can change an animals behaviour without "punishment"


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> ...if you think I implied


Hi Miss Miss. Listen, I know you love your cats - you can tell from your videos & pics and the fact that you are on this forum that you do. You are also an experienced cat-owner and a 'live and let live' person which is good for a group like this. But even though you may have only used this tactic for 2 day's in a cat's lifetime that doesn't necessarily make it right IMO and you gave out this particular advice as if it was gospel or, at least, a good and proven tip. To my shame, I have used some bad tactics with my cat (mostly through ignorance) but if I offer it as positive advice and I get it wrong - which I may well do - I deserve to get corrected by others if there is any chance that it could be misinterpreted by someone seeking genuinely help from what they may see as a 'knowledgable' on-line cat community. Negative reinforcement or punishment (which is what you are advocating in various postings) is not going to be accepted by the majority as appropriate for cats. You did not say that you only used it on one cat for two days - the impression was that you do it as standard practice. If you didn't mean to give that impression, perhaps you need to re-read your posts before submission (?) We did not need to 'think you implied' - you said it.


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

miss_miss said:


> and metabolism slows down during normal sleep time so there is no need to go pee etc
> 
> what? you never ever had a cat in a carry cage for any reason for that long? not when traveling some distance?
> 
> so after 2 such treatments my cats do not wake me up at 3 am in the morning


A cats metabolism DOES NOT slow down at night at all, cats are actually crepuscular meaning they are more active at dawn and dusk and there normal sleeping hours are during the day so what you say is completely false.

Keeping any animal without water for any period of time is not only cruel but
very dangerous!

Anyone travelling a long distance with a cat would stop for rest breaks and allow the cat to drink/eat and relieve itself, this is a LEGAL requirement for animal transport companies.

Besides the fact that waht you are doing is incredibly cruel it has no benifit, cats do not understand that they are being punished and why so it teaches them nothing. Not opening the door would have shown your cat that the scratching does not work.



miss_miss said:


> I do have a large cat cage set up right now because the elderly cat - the one who is 19 - has loose stools due to old age
> 
> she does consider it a treat and she does consider it that she has her own room
> 
> if you think I implied that I use time out cage all the time you are very wrong. They have access to it all the time because they like to lie in it just for fun but i dont close the door - it is just for fun


So your elderly cat has been condemed to spend the rest of it's life in a cage?

And you know she likes it how?

Cats are roamers by nature so I very much doubt that any cat enjoys being caged for any period of time.

I work in cat rescue and can tell you hundreds of stories of cats going mad in the cattery as they hate being shut up so much.


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

she has loose stools meaning she gets it all over herself and everything she sits on - do you want her on your bed or your sofa? 

she loves her cage because we let her out to be with us all day and leave her in the cage for feeding her and for sleeping - we have modified her diet because she cannot eat what the other cats eat and with the modified diet she could be allowed to be with us 24/7 but she keeps meowing to be put in the cage and when I open the door she walks in there

but she keeps meowing at the door to be let in and then after some time in the cage she meows to be let out and I am her very willing slave

we have also been rotating other cats to be with her in the cage so she does not feel that she is in solitary confinement and as we seem to have solved the loose stools issue with change of diet we also let her sleep on the bed - but she always asks after a few hours to be taken to her room - the cage we have set up for her in the other room

she is honestly doing just fine - her eyesight is degrading and so is her hearing but she is keen to play and jumps well on the cat tree and we adore her

the cage for her cost $550-00 so it is roomy enough to hold 8 cats if I wanted to, because I believe that NASA decreed that astronauts need 3 forms of exercise for health - weight bearing, aerobic and stretching and we believe our animals need all 3 forms of exercise too so we bought her the luxury size cage

I could never confine any of our animals to any cage that did not provide opportunity for all 3 sorts of exercise


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

i agree that cats metabolism will only slow down for their usual sleep time and because they sleep with me I know this is their sleep time and as they are locked in my bedroom with 2 litter boxes, they dont use them during the night

but during the day they run in and use the same litter boxes

this means that for my cats the night time and sleep time is the same as my sleep time


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

our old 19 year old cat has a cage exactly like this one set up inside a spare room and she loves it - keeps asking to be let into her cage when the hustle and bustle get to her i guess and she wants some peace and quiet and then she meows about an hour later to come back and be with us and then she wants back into her cage and so on all day

the cage outdoors is set up as a play room and I am also teaching out cats to run in there when I say the word cage

this is a sort of corall cage in case I need them out of the house and in a cage fro whatever reason - fire maybe? yes it is well away from the house - I think it is about 20 metres away from the house

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o32/whiteb89/old curtain/#!cpZZ3QQtppZZ20


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> i have owned 23 cats and i caged 1 cat for 2 nights in her 10 years of life and no other cat got punished fro anything all their life
> 
> she got 1 punishment for 2 nights for her entire life and no other punishment whatsoever


Miss Miss, like someone already pointed out, the issue on this thread is not that most of us cant interpret the written word correctly; its that you write something outrageous and present it in a very authoritative manner, then back pedal at an alarming rate when you are called on it.

First you back pedal on the length of time your cats are placed in a time-out cat carrier for punishment. Then you back pedal on your sweeping statements about cats metablolic rates, then you back pedal on cats needing to toilet during the night, and now youre back pedaling about the number of cats and the number of occasions you have used this cruel form of punishment.

I can read perfectly well, as can the other people on this thread. If you have only tried this cruel form of punishment with 1 cat for 2 nights, why on earth do you post in such an authoritative manner in the first place?

Right now it is impossible for us to know if youre lying now to save face, or you just were so vague in your initial posts. Personally, I think you have used this form of punishment a LOT more than just with 1 cat for 2 nights, otherwise you would never have posted in such a factual authoritative manner.

I think you have to look at how you post and what you post. And be a lot more specific. If you mean an hour then learn to type that, dont just go with the generic overnight. If you mean you cats have some very odd behaviours or traits that dont apply to many cats, let alone all cats, then learn to type that and stop passing off an oddity in one cat as a trait for cats in general. You really need to stop stating as fact oddities you have experienced in one or two cats on one or two occasions, and you need to stop making such sweeping generalisations based on very little of something.

And you really need to stop giving out potentially dangerous and cruel advice. I assume you wouldnt go on to mumsnet and tell the mothers on there to lock their toddlers in a broom cupboard if they disturb mum and dads sleep well in the same vein, you need to stop advising and promoting cruel and dangerous cat-control tactics on a catforum.


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

miss_miss said:


> she has loose stools meaning she gets it all over herself and everything she sits on - do you want her on your bed or your sofa?


I assume she is being treated by a vet as the loose stools are more of a health worry due to dehydration especially when denyied access to water then a worry about the mess it makes.

If mess was a valid reason to cage an animal then we should all lock our up immediately because lets face it they all create mess.

I am sure that wiping her bottom with a wet wipe after she uses the litter tray would be more effective then caging her seeing as you are so able to predict your cats toileting habits?



miss_miss said:


> i agree that cats metabolism will only slow down for their usual sleep time and because they sleep with me I know this is their sleep time and as they are locked in my bedroom with 2 litter boxes, they dont use them during the night
> 
> but during the day they run in and use the same litter boxes
> 
> this means that for my cats the night time and sleep time is the same as my sleep time


But this is not what you said in your post, you implied that cats in general do not need to eat, drink or use a litter tray during the night. Not that YOUR cats don't as they have their own patterns. Very dangerous information to give out.



miss_miss said:


> the cage outdoors is set up as a play room and I am also teaching out cats to run in there when I say the word cage
> 
> this is a sort of corall cage in case I need them out of the house and in a cage fro whatever reason - fire maybe? yes it is well away from the house - I think it is about 20 metres away from the house
> 
> old curtain pictures by whiteb89 - Photobucket


I am starting to think you are winding us all up if you believe you can train cats to run and shut themselves in an outdoor cage because you say the 'cage'. I hope you dont ever have to rely on this working in the case of a genuine emergency.


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

they cannot shut the gate obviously lol

but our cats respond to words - I say 'bed' and they all run to the bedroom and settle down for the night

I say cage and they are running to the cage and into it

I say 'home' and they run into the house

our elderly cat is caged during the night or else she wakes us up to clean her bottom at 3 am in the morning

when I can be with her she can roam anywhere she wants to but she often asks to go into her cage

she is not a pet rock you know - she knows how to meow at me and when I follow her to see if she will lead the way to somethign she wants she leads the way to her cage and starts to scratch at the door for me to open it

yes we have taken her to the vet and the vet recommended the senior dry food diet

as for other cats I owned - yes most of them lived to age 18 and up

sigh I never said i could predict when my cats need to pee - I am basing my philosophy on the fact that for humans they can take a pee sample from us most of the time because apparently the pee drips into the bladder continuously so even when we dont get a singnal to pee we likely have some in the bladder

cats are mammals like us so I assumed that the pee drips into their bladder too and they can have some in the bladder even though they are not aware of it yet

thus putting them in the litter box works - usually they just pee - there is no magic about it

i also want to tell you that I had a cat that for the first 8 months with me she pooed so loose that it was sticky and she did huge skid marks all over the carpet every day [skid marks 13 metres long or longer]

I never even raised my voice to that cat - I just patiently cleaned the carpet and rinsed her butt - every day for 8 months

in the meantime i took her to vets and the vets did not help and I experimented with food to see if she could tolerate somethign else better

but i never ever scolded her - no punishment , nothing

when the vet speyed her i asked for an exploratory to be done to see if the vet could better diagnose what is going on and the vet told me she had an enzyme problem that there was no help for but that she passed a normal stool on the operating table

now i just fed her real meat the day before - no cat food whatsoever, just raw meat and some vegies

so that was it - I fed my cats real meat from then on and I never ever had a days problem with this cat and her sticky loose poos.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> they cannot shut the gate obviously lol
> 
> but our cats respond to words - I say 'bed' and they all run to the bedroom and settle down for the night
> 
> ...


Wonderful, so your old cat with runny tummy no longer wakes you at 3am to clean her bum, she sits in her cage now and waits patiently until you get up.

You feed your cats real meat now? Do you mean raw? with or without supplements?

I'd love to see some video clips of you giving your cats each command, to see them run and do as you say


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> they cannot shut the gate obviously lol
> 
> but our cats respond to words - I say 'bed' and they all run to the bedroom and settle down for the night
> 
> ...


And the point of this post is what??? 

We are not asking you to defend your actions with your cats, merely to think before you post 'advice' - poor advice imo, that can be easily misinterpreted by others.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

MissMiss, lovely anecdotes. But they are not in anyway addressing the issue of you giving out dangerous advice on this forum and then backpedalling every time you are called on it.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

dougal22 said:


> And the point of this post is what???
> 
> We are not asking you to defend your actions with your cats, merely to think before you post 'advice' - poor advice imo, that can be easily misinterpreted by others.


I think this is a smoke and mirrors attempt... muddy the waters with irrelevant cat stories and we may forget the fact she is dishing out very dangerous and cruel advice as passing it off as though she is an authority on the subject!

Nice try MissMiss, I doubt though that any of us will fall for it.


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

we put her on dry cat food as recommended by vet and she no longer has loose stool

she likes to be in her cage though so we dont see any reason not to let her sleep int her if she wants to


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> we put her on dry cat food as recommended by vet and she no longer has loose stool
> 
> she likes to be in her cage though so we dont see any reason not to let her sleep int her if she wants to


that's not what many of us are asking. We're asking if you can't see fit to stopping your cruel treatment of cats by putting cats in cat carriers in the middle of the night to punish and train them, could you at least stop posting about this cruel practice on this forum as it could encourage more people to take up this cruel and counterproductive practice.... and could you stop backpedaling and over generalizing one quirky behaviour in one of your cats and passing it off as the norm for all cats. Thank you!


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> I'd love to see some video clips of you giving your cats each command, to see them run and do as you say


here is a video I took

it is hard to get hold of my hubby's camera as he works nights and this video was filmed today and i confused the cats by going off and napping with a headache

it still shows that my cats do respond to a word - in this case 'bed'

and i believe any cat is clever enough to learn a few words and respond to them

round here when I want hubby to shop for chicken necks I have to spell it or else the cats think I am about to give them a chicken neck and start going crazy prancing around the fridge expecting a chicken neck from me

old curtain :: video-2010-12-20-21-50-30.mp4 video by whiteb89 - Photobucket


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Bonkers


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> Bonkers


Yep spot on.:thumbsup:


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## miss_miss (Dec 12, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> Bonkers


my cats are bonkers? hmmm


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## bellathemog (Sep 30, 2010)

I've read this whole thread, putting a cat in a cage as time out as you put it is wrong. I've had the same thing happen for the past 8 yrs my cat scratches at the door at 3 or 4 am every day! For food/hug

do you know how I deal with it?

I get up I go and rub her head, I hear her purr, I talk to her and I feed her why? Well because most level headed cat lovers do things to make their cats happy and not shut them in a bloody cage

total joke


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

miss_miss said:


> my cats are bonkers? hmmm


it's not your cats who are bonkers ..........


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## georgefan (Dec 18, 2009)

Hi

At the risk of causing another argument (I started this thread!) I'm after more advice!

Joey has now settled well, after using pet spray no longer scratches at any of the doors, and goes to bed when I say so. I have NEVER placed him in his carrier, apart from when I brought him home from the rescue centre. He follows me around the house and loves lots of fuss. During the day he goes up to my room and sleeps on my bed.

He is now showing signs of wanting to go outside. I am very nervous about this, as I am frightened he will leave the garden and won't find his way back 

I don't want to deprive him of being outside, but I don't want anything to happen to him. How can I introduce him to it safely?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mel


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

When you say 'showing signs of wanting to go outside' what do you mean?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

georgefan said:


> Hi
> 
> At the risk of causing another argument (I started this thread!) I'm after more advice!
> 
> ...





Aurelia said:


> When you say 'showing signs of wanting to go outside' what do you mean?


lol what auelia said!

how dose a cat 'show signsa' of wanting to go out to a place that his never been to before or doesnt know that it can get to??

if you mean that his just looking out the window or chattting to the birds...well, thats what they do! :thumbup:

doesnt mean anything really! he can go out about 2months (although thats still young) after neutering at 5-6months. id wait until about 8/9even 10, and supervise little visits until it gets longer.

or just keep him in cat posts toys etc


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## morgmonster (Jun 8, 2010)

TB The cat is 5 years old and from a rescue centre so hopefully neutered etc, also I expect he has been outside in his previous home or when straying :-(

Our rescue cats were also very very keen to go outside, we did get them in the summer though, so probably all kinds of exciting smells came wafting through the back door whenever we popped outside. Their signs of wanting to go out were scratching the back door, hanging off the door knob and trying to squeeze out of the letterbox (!). Also if a window was open a crack they would try to force their nose through it (only did that once!) 

Once they'd been in our house a month, we started to let them out. (do you remember the weather last May/June, it was so hot and humid, keeping all doors and windows shut for that month was an absolute nightmare!). To start with we only let them out when we were there, and we followed them around the garden as they explored. eventually we increased the time they were allowed out slowly, watching them from the kitchen or upstairs; and finally not watching them at all (but always in the house). We didn't get a cat flap for a few weeks, so for all that time they were only allowed out after we got home from work (it was summer, so light), BEFORE THEIR DINNER!, for a couple of hours. Once it started getting dusky we encouraged them back in - not hard as they were hungry! We shook the biscuits tin as they came in so they associated that noise with "time to come in" and still respond to it now.

Finally we got a cat flap and they were allowed out while we were at work. The first few days I was so nervous... But it was all fine. Our cat flap locks automatically at dusk and opens at dawn, so they are never outside in the dark. TBH considering they were so desperate to get outside, they don't spend much time out there really. Our garden is fairly secure (not cat secure though but enough to mostly discourage them); they can go over the wall around to the front & the road but they very rarely do. I think it was definitely easier due to it being summer time, we could let them out after work but it was still light. Do you work full time? If so it might be worth seeing if you can keep him in a bit longer... You don't really want his first trips out to be in the dark. 

Lots of people on here keep their cats indoors all the time, and not just pedigrees, you should have a read of some of the threads about this and I'm sure you'll reach your own decision, based on your cats personality, what kind of area you live in, etc. It isn't an all or nothing approach, you could be like us and only let them out during daylight, or only when you are there, some people use harnesses on their cats, etc. It is easier to keep them inside in this weather but personally I just couldn't do it in the summertime again! For me one of my favourite bits of having cats is when I'm gardening and they both come and hang out with me :-D


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## georgefan (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks Morgmonster.

He was not allowed out at his previous home, resorting to him escaping through a 2nd floor bathroom window and disappearing for days at a time. He sits on the window sill and tries to open the backdoor. He also sits there miaowing and comes to me and back to the door again.

I don't work during the day, so I think this weekend I will start letting him into the garden just before he is fed, he normally comes running when he hears his food go into his bowl.

Thanks again for your advice and understanding my cat's background, and not just assuming I don't know what I'm talking about.

Thanks again

Mel


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## morgmonster (Jun 8, 2010)

That's OK! It does sound like he likes the outside then! Definitely to start with, letting him out with an empty tum is the way to go. It's good that you are around in the day as it should be much easier to manage introducing him to the garden. You might want to get earplugs ... To start with, one of ours was terrible for battering the catflap at night to try and persuade us to let her out again. She would do it for an hour continuously, I'm not kidding...I think the only thing that stopped us going insane was that there was no meowing to accompany it, she's a pretty silent cat. As we steadfastly ignored all her attempts she realised it wouldn't get her anywhere and stopped after a while. We still get the occasional patting of it but she's easily distracted away now! Good luck and I hope it all goes OK!


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