# Visited an appalling breeder today



## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

I found a lady on preloved selling french lops and I've been desperate for one. Since it was close to home and only £30 a kit I decided to go and take a look.

It was terrible. 

All the pregnant females were in tiny hutches, I'd say 2.5ft max, A few with babies were in runs on the concrete floor with no bed area or bedding!
There were 6 3 month old french lop babies in a 4x4 playhouse which, being inside this barn, had barely any light inside.
There were 2 french lops (obviously her favourites) that had the run of the whole barn, it was huge and there were unwashed bottles for milking the lambs lying around as well as tonnes of things the buns could have hurt themselves on - the floor had bunny poo all over it.
It clearly hadn't been cleaned out in over a week (she claimed she had got all ready for cleanout before we came over but there were no signs of any cleaning stuff) 
The water bottles were so dark green I couldn't tell if they had water in
There were no food bowls or toys in any, only beds in a few and not even bedding in the rest.
I only saw filthy bedding hay, nothing edible. 
she told me not to bother getting them vaccinated when I asked if she had them done before they went to their new homes
She suggested I just take one home and dump it in with my two girls as early as possible when I asked if she could keep him until old enough to neuter. She also told me it was a waste of money to neuter him if the girls are spayed.
I went to stroke a black french lop in with another white one in a tiny indoor cage and it immediately backed into the corner of the cage and put its head down - it also had a dodgy looking eye and the impression I got was that the other rabbit was bulling it.
Lastly, and I know this is silly she said to me "If I see something I want, I buy it." referring to the animals. Her whole attitude was just that they were objects she wanted and could make some money out it, clearly no love for the rabbits themselves.

I'm phoning the rspca on monday. I wanted to take him home with me right then but I know I can't support this woman. My heart is breaking for those poor rabbits.


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## Emmiiee (Jan 3, 2010)

awww you were right not to bring any home, that would just incourage her, hopefully the rspca will rescue them all and they will get looked after and find new homes soon!! x


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

i'm pretty sure the rspca helpline is 24 7, you need to either say they had no food or water or were at risk from other animals or they wont really bother.  I wouldve told her she was disgusting


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

poor buns


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

emzybabe said:


> i'm pretty sure the rspca helpline is 24 7, you need to either say they had no food or water or were at risk from other animals or they wont really bother.  I wouldve told her she was disgusting


Thanks. They may well have had no water. Users on another forum suggested I phone environmental health if the RSPCA can't do anything so I'll probably do that too.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

that's awful. i must say though that no food bowls in hutches doesn't necessarily mean they aren't fed. my rabbits are fed in the morning and in the evening, and their food bowl is not left in their hutch. so she may well be feeding them. she must be, how else would they stay alive and breed? they may be fed crap food, but they must be getting some nutrients. 

her views about neutering seem to be old fashioned (no point neutering a buck when the does are spayed). It's perfectly reasonable to have that view but i think they don't realise the health issues that are associated to not being castrated.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I would phone the rspca cruelty line today...it's a 24/7 line and they will go out any time given the correct info....i personally think the rspca are crap but if you tell them there's no food or water and the buns are living in their own crap they will go out because they have no choice.....hell tell them you saw a rat or something....they dont know it's a lie but it'll make them go out.....there's no way they'll leave any animal there in those conditions....if it wasn't as bad as that they'd give her a week to clean it but the rabbits are in immediate danger so they won't
Good luck
Clare xx


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> that's awful. i must say though that no food bowls in hutches doesn't necessarily mean they aren't fed. my rabbits are fed in the morning and in the evening, and their food bowl is not left in their hutch. so she may well be feeding them. she must be, how else would they stay alive and breed? they may be fed crap food, but they must be getting some nutrients.
> 
> her views about neutering seem to be old fashioned (no point neutering a buck when the does are spayed). It's perfectly reasonable to have that view but i think they don't realise the health issues that are associated to not being castrated.


she told me I should have got the buck and neutered him first and then not neutered the females so obviously she didn't understand the risk to does. I know there's nothing wrong with the attitude per say but she seemed to know nothing about the animals. 
I also forgot to mention that her oldest rabbit lived to 6 years when I said I didn't think neutering was a huge cost when spread over a possible 10 years of life.

I didn't mean they don't get fed when I mentioned no food bowls, just that the food seemed to have been thrown in with all the muck on the floor which I thought was disgusting.

I'm just looking up her details and then I'll phone the rspca.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

You could try reporting her to your local council too (environmental health may be interested if the conditions are squalid) as she may need to have a licence. Also the taxman if she is selling and not declaring her earnings from breeding.

Found this on Rabbit Rehome - What's Involved in Breeding Rabbits



> * You might be required to obtain a Licence in order to breed your rabbits if ANY of the babies are to be either sold or given away, regardless of whether or not a charge is made for them.
> * If the babies are to be sold then this might be considered a business and this could attract Business Rating of part of your home and/or garden - even though you won't be making any profit.
> * Appropriate insurance and public liability insurance if any bunny adopters are to visit your home.
> * Compliance with Fire Regulation and any local bylaws. Please note - these requirements are applicable to 'back garden' breeders and not just commercial breeders selling rabbits for profit.


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## myzoo (Jan 13, 2010)

i totally understand i had the same happen to me when buying my rats charlie and lola of a private breeder he had them all in a tiny box room in undersized makeshift gages with no water or food he had in a tiny box room wild rats dumbos top eared hairless dwarf hamsters syrian hamsters parrots kittens puppys and the babies were taken away from the parents far too early i still bought charlie and lola but after talking to people on the forums they advised me to report him and i did and it turned out to be the best desision i ever made he had his animals taken into the care of the rspca once the rspca had them i offered to take a few of the rats i took 2 females one died :cryinnly after a few days from breathing problems due to him using wrong bedding if any ect the other fidget got fatter and fatter untill she had a lovely litter of 13 kittens one was born with only one eye due to him interbreeding 4 were born with a different coat.well anyway the best thing you can do is report it and ask the rspca to let you know the outcome and if you really want one of them bunnies ask them if they seize the animals you would love to adopt one or however many you like it is for the best i suggest you report her asap so they dont have to suffer for too much longer it really frustrates me when people see animals as money making objects its so so wrong that there are such heartless shallow minded greedy people out there GO FOR IT REPORT HER good luck and i would love to know what happens to these lovely little bunnies they deserve better if you would like to know any more about how best to go about reporting her please pm me iam happy to help


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## frags (Feb 5, 2009)

Can you pm me the details of this person please, i wont tell others i just want to see if i know who it is so i can make sure i NEVER buy from them! Sounds terrible!!

I dont have bowls in my breeder hutches as the does try to cover the babies with them lol


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

would it be the worst thing in the world if I paid her for him? I don't want to give her money to keep doing what she's doing but I really want him and I'm worried someone else will buy him and take him to some crappy home and that the RSPCA won't be able to do anything. 

I phoned again yesterday with some more precise directions and the guy I spoke to on the first day hadn't even made a record of anything! The lady said it's gone to head office now and they should get back to me within 4 weeks.


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## frags (Feb 5, 2009)

BattleKat said:


> would it be the worst thing in the world if I paid her for him? I don't want to give her money to keep doing what she's doing but I really want him and I'm worried someone else will buy him and take him to some crappy home and that the RSPCA won't be able to do anything.
> 
> I phoned again yesterday with some more precise directions and the guy I spoke to on the first day hadn't even made a record of anything! The lady said it's gone to head office now and they should get back to me within 4 weeks.


No it wouldnt, if anything you will be saving him from this horrible hell home!! Go get your little man x


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

frags said:


> No it wouldnt, if anything you will be saving him from this horrible hell home!! Go get your little man x


i agree. he didn't ask to be born in this world, and he needs a loving home. maybe i'm a soft touch, but i would get him but keep badgering at the RSPCA to get something done about that breeder.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

go in under cover and take some pictures while ur there, then post them around the neighbour hood i think that would be the worst way to name and shame them


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

Yes, go and rescue the poor little bun (although I know many would disagree). He deserves a loving home and you are doing all you can to try and ensure other buns don't have to suffer as he has.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

I just phoned the rspca to see what size accommodation they'd recommend for the trio and they said if they do take him in they won't be able to home him with my two girls as they are insistent that a trio will fight unless very young.

I've seen a few people with trios on here and it seems to work, would I be making a mistake? I really want to go and get him but the shed isn't even set up yet and now I'm second guessing whether it's even the right thing to do.


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

BattleKat said:


> I just phoned the rspca to see what size accommodation they'd recommend for the trio and they said if they do take him in they won't be able to home him with my two girls as they are insistent that a trio will fight unless very young.
> 
> I've seen a few people with trios on here and it seems to work, would I be making a mistake? I really want to go and get him but the shed isn't even set up yet and now I'm second guessing whether it's even the right thing to do.


Hun, you want him and he sounds like he's in an AWFUL place! The poor little mite, well, all of them really ! If you have somewhere he could be accomodated even temporarily then I say go get him - it's not paying her, it's saving him. You know your bunnies best and if you think it could work then definitely go for it; if not, why not see if someone on here or near you could take him who could also give him a good home.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

Zippstar said:


> Hun, you want him and he sounds like he's in an AWFUL place! The poor little mite, well, all of them really ! If you have somewhere he could be accomodated even temporarily then I say go get him - it's not paying her, it's saving him. You know your bunnies best and if you think it could work then definitely go for it; if not, why not see if someone on here or near you could take him who could also give him a good home.


I do want him but the temp run is only 5ftx2.5ft and I don't think he'd fit through the door to the bed :lol: Not to mention temporary housing is actually going to be quite long term if he's only 3 months. Would be in temporary housing for another 3 months before being bonded with the girls in the shed.

I've never bonded rabbits before so I don't really know how to judge if the rabbits are dominant or anything. There doesn't seem to be a dominant one of the two and both are very friendly towards me.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

ah sod it, spoke to the OH and we're going to get the stuff to build a temporary 6x3 run tomorrow and connect it to a crappy hutch we've got spare. 

I've named him bruce banner (like the hulk - you don't want to make him angry!) and I'll be getting him ASAP. Much to the OH's disapproval. :thumbup:


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

BattleKat said:


> ah sod it, spoke to the OH and we're going to get the stuff to build a temporary 6x3 run tomorrow and connect it to a crappy hutch we've got spare.
> 
> I've named him bruce banner (like the hulk - you don't want to make him angry!) and I'll be getting him ASAP. Much to the OH's disapproval. :thumbup:


Bless him if only he knew he'd soon to be going to a much better place! My OH is disapproving of my plans to get Rags a new friend too, but you know what men are like :lol:! I'm sure your girls will be fine; there's lots of people on here who can help anyways so hopefully all will go to plan! We'll want to see lots of pics !


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## frags (Feb 5, 2009)

Zippstar said:


> Bless him if only he knew he'd soon to be going to a much better place! My OH is disapproving of my plans to get Rags a new friend too, but you know what men are like :lol:! I'm sure your girls will be fine; there's lots of people on here who can help anyways so hopefully all will go to plan! We'll want to see lots of pics !


You should get this little fella, he looks just like your Rory Preloved | dwarf lop female broken chinchilla for sale in Strood Rochester, Kent, UK


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

frags said:


> You should get this little fella, he looks just like your Rory Preloved | dwarf lop female broken chinchilla for sale in Strood Rochester, Kent, UK


I would love to but Kent's a bit far for me (I'm in Northants). How gorgeous is she though! I wonder if her brother's the same........


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

I went back today and collected one. I let my girls decide which one they wanted and it's not the one I originally had my eye on but I'm really pleased with their decision.

He looks like he has some kind of infection (runny eyes and nose) so I've booked him an appointment for that, his myxi jab and to talk about neutering next thursday. 
He was the one in the absolutely tiny cage and it was lovely to see him when we bought him home. He just ran around chinning everything, almost like he was saying "this is mine! this is mine! this is all mine!!" then running back and forth through the tunnel and throwing the hay around.

here he is, not the best photos but he was just settling in and I didn't want to disturb him too much. I think I've settled on "Eli" for a name.


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## frags (Feb 5, 2009)

He is lovely, i just hope it isnt pasturella thats giving him the runny nose x


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

frags said:


> He is lovely, i just hope it isnt pasturella thats giving him the runny nose x


It's not overly runny as his paws are clean and he doesn't wipe his nose, his nose is just damp when he nudges you and you can see that the fur looks a little wet. 
His eyes aren't really runny either but they have eye boogers which keep reappearing despite me wiping them off and him cleaning his face.

I can't say I've heard of pasturella, is it a good or a bad sign if all the other bunnies looked ok? Is it a treatable thing or a 'you're going to die' kind of thing?


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## frags (Feb 5, 2009)

BattleKat said:


> It's not overly runny as his paws are clean and he doesn't wipe his nose, his nose is just damp when he nudges you and you can see that the fur looks a little wet.
> His eyes aren't really runny either but they have eye boogers which keep reappearing despite me wiping them off and him cleaning his face.
> 
> I can't say I've heard of pasturella, is it a good or a bad sign if all the other bunnies looked ok? Is it a treatable thing or a 'you're going to die' kind of thing?


Im sure it prob just snuffles  pasturella is only bad if the rabbit has thick green snot coming out.
Dont worry only sounds like a normal young bun.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

frags said:


> Im sure it prob just snuffles  pasturella is only bad if the rabbit has thick green snot coming out.
> Dont worry only sounds like a normal young bun.


Okidokey, thanks for being reassuring. He's off to the vet for a check over anyway so I'll just move it forward a bit if I can get an hour off work. 

I do hope he's ok, he's become considerably friendlier since coming home and is such a lovely chap! 
He was the one in the tiny indoor cage with another french lop and every time she picked him up she scruffed him, no wonder he hated being handled. He'll happily sit there and let you stroke him and he's ok with me picking him up now, the first couple of times I did it he was thrashing and kicking.
All my previous doubts about cost, space and the three of them not getting along are out of the window since I've bought him home. So soft!!! :lol:


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

Isn't he gorgeous! Bet you wish you could have saved them all, the poor buns! Bless him. How are the others with him, are they allowed contact through a screen or similar?


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

Zippstar said:


> Isn't he gorgeous! Bet you wish you could have saved them all, the poor buns! Bless him. How are the others with him, are they allowed contact through a screen or similar?


During the meeting they were absolutely fine with him, showed some interest and no fighting or even mounting, a couple of times they asked each other for grooming but nobody obliged. 
They're now in runs next to each other, yesterday the girls had changed their usual spot from the end of the run (next to his) to their other run but they've gradually got closer to him and when I went down this morning they were back up that end and showing quite a lot of interest, I think rambo was trying to lick him through the cage bars.:thumbup:


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

its a good idea to worm rabbits when ever introducing a new rabbit or in times of stress, especially if hes come from someone a bit dodgy. the worming paste is about £5. I've heard of lots of cases already this year. Hes a very hansom boy


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

emzybabe said:


> its a good idea to worm rabbits when ever introducing a new rabbit or in times of stress, especially if hes come from someone a bit dodgy. the worming paste is about £5. I've heard of lots of cases already this year. Hes a very hansom boy


cheers 
panacur is the other thing we're going to the vet for. He's going to be an expensive bunny all things considered but so worth it to get him away from there. I just hope the RSPCA can do something for the others.

Want to get him fit and healthy before we start bonding.:thumbup:


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

BattleKat said:


> During the meeting they were absolutely fine with him, showed some interest and no fighting or even mounting, a couple of times they asked each other for grooming but nobody obliged.
> They're now in runs next to each other, yesterday the girls had changed their usual spot from the end of the run (next to his) to their other run but they've gradually got closer to him and when I went down this morning they were back up that end and showing quite a lot of interest, I think rambo was trying to lick him through the cage bars.:thumbup:


:thumbup: all round then! so pleased for u!


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

emzybabe said:


> its a good idea to worm rabbits when ever introducing a new rabbit or in times of stress, especially if hes come from someone a bit dodgy. the worming paste is about £5. I've heard of lots of cases already this year. Hes a very hansom boy


oh yes, definitely worm them, dont want EC even getting a chance to raise it's ugly head near your beautiful bunnies!


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

Just took him to the vet and treatment for the runny eyes and nose cost £40, hopefully that will sort him out and we'll be able to get him snipped and jabbed soon.


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

BattleKat said:


> Just took him to the vet and treatment for the runny eyes and nose cost £40, hopefully that will sort him out and we'll be able to get him snipped and jabbed soon.


Did the vet say it was just snuffles?


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

Zippstar said:


> Did the vet say it was just snuffles?


she didn't really say what it was, just that she was giving him baytril and some kind of booster for his immune system and then some baytril to bring home as well.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

sometimes it can just be the dust or dirt that they were living in, also the stress of moving can cause their immune systems to weaken. I would try just keeping him on towels and hay. Should clear up within a week if not then a long course of oral batril can sometimes work but they can become immune to it. shame u've had to pay so much for him already


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

emzybabe said:


> sometimes it can just be the dust or dirt that they were living in, also the stress of moving can cause their immune systems to weaken. I would try just keeping him on towels and hay. Should clear up within a week if not then a long course of oral batril can sometimes work but they can become immune to it. shame u've had to pay so much for him already


He had no bedding at all where he was 

I'm not too bothered by the money as I'm living very cheaply at the moment and never really buy anything for myself, I set aside quite a bit of money for him as he looked ill. I'm just glad I have him and he's going to be ok. 
I really want to phone the breeder about it and demand she covers it but I'm not very good at being angry and I don't think it would get anywhere.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

just got a couple more photos to show


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## VampiricLust (Mar 3, 2008)

Please, please please quarantine him for at least 2 weeks before letting him near your girls.

You don't know if he may be carrying something. Though he has had an exterior healthcheck by a vet, you don't know what else may be going on internally.

If he is confirmed to be a little poorly now, you especially do not want him in contact with other rabbits, incase anything he may have is airborne.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

VampiricLust said:


> Please, please please quarantine him for at least 2 weeks before letting him near your girls.
> 
> You don't know if he may be carrying something. Though he has had an exterior healthcheck by a vet, you don't know what else may be going on internally.
> 
> If he is confirmed to be a little poorly now, you especially do not want him in contact with other rabbits, incase anything he may have is airborne.


They had the meeting when we went to collect him (which I realised was a mistake when we were in the middle of it - hadn't really crossed my mind until I saw his eyes) but they aren't having any more contact until he's better, neutered and vaccinated.

The cages are quite close together though, do you think I should move them?

edit: on a side note, why 2 weeks?


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

bad news, I just found a scab on the back of his neck. Here's a photo









I suppose it could be a reaction to one of the injections he was given, or maybe a bite from the rabbit he was in with before I took him - I suspected from the first visit the other rabbit was taking out aggression on him. 
he's looking better since going on the antibiotics but not 100% and i run out tomorrow so I'll phone them to ask about it all.

Does anyone know what it looks like? I'm just praying it's not the pasturella having got to an advanced stage as I was really hoping I'd nip it in the bud with these antibiotics.

the vet did have trouble getting one of the injections in and ended up doing it in another spot so perhaps it's irritation from that.


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## frags (Feb 5, 2009)

awwww its prob the needle area, is it in the place he had the jab? alot of buns get a scab and sometimes go bald in that area.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

frags said:


> awwww its prob the needle area, is it in the place he had the jab? alot of buns get a scab and sometimes go bald in that area.


I think it is. I would have thought she'd have noticed it if it were there when she was injecting him and I hadn't noticed it before but it was really obvious today when he was cleaning his belly.

Fingers crossed that's what it is.


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## frags (Feb 5, 2009)

BattleKat said:


> I think it is. I would have thought she'd have noticed it if it were there when she was injecting him and I hadn't noticed it before but it was really obvious today when he was cleaning his belly.
> 
> Fingers crossed that's what it is.


It is quite common for them to react to the jab, dont panic hun x


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

That could be a Baytril burn. I have seen this on rats when the injection wasn't done properly.


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

Aww poor little man, don't worry though, Rags had a similar reaction when she had one of her jabs at one point (can't remember if it was her op one or a routine one, sorry). as long as it's clean and healthy i'd just keep an eye on it.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

Just took eli back to the vet as he's still not looking 100% (better though) and I'm not happy at all. 

The bloke wasn't the rabbit specialist we normally see, he said eli looked absolutely fine and some gunging around the eyes is reasonably normal(!), then he went ahead and gave him his myxi jab (I was happy with this despite very slight snuffles as I've read many rabbits have it their whole lives and still get their jabs) which he did wrong, it all went into the body and he didn't put the 10% in the skin that they normally do. 
Anyway, I went to pay and book him in for his neuter and the woman said to me "I assume the vet's told you don't feed him for 24 hours before the operation" and I said (knowing that's effing stupid) "are you sure? when we had our girls done we were told it's quite important for them to eat right up until the op to avoid gut stasis" and she said "oh, um...I better check that then". I told her i'd phone back.

I think I'm going to make an appointment and ask for the rabbit girl we usually see and just talk to her about my concerns. We pay extra to go to this vet because several of the staff are accredited with rabbit speciality and we want to do the best by the bunnies but when you have an experience like this it really does make you wonder.


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

BattleKat said:


> Just took eli back to the vet as he's still not looking 100% (better though) and I'm not happy at all.
> 
> The bloke wasn't the rabbit specialist we normally see, he said eli looked absolutely fine and some gunging around the eyes is reasonably normal(!), then he went ahead and gave him his myxi jab (I was happy with this despite very slight snuffles as I've read many rabbits have it their whole lives and still get their jabs) which he did wrong, it all went into the body and he didn't put the 10% in the skin that they normally do.
> Anyway, I went to pay and book him in for his neuter and the woman said to me "I assume the vet's told you don't feed him for 24 hours before the operation" and I said (knowing that's effing stupid) "are you sure? when we had our girls done we were told it's quite important for them to eat right up until the op to avoid gut stasis" and she said "oh, um...I better check that then". I told her i'd phone back.
> ...


I know; with Rags the receptionist told me not to feed her for 24 hours - lucky i'd read up on it beforehand because i was quite new to the rabbit game back then and i just think anyone who didn't know or hadn't done their research would have witheld food with the best of intentions and ended up with a very sick or dead bunny. I actually told the head vet about that but whether he acted on it i don't know - i doubt it as when I booked Rory in they told me to give him only water (!!) for 12 hours before! So i told her straight and she was like..."oh yeah....i remember now"!!

Hope you get the lil man sorted out soon


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

i would change vets

Miffy recently had a very nasty reaction to the baytril jab, it killed off a good inch of skin all around and that eventually scabed and very slowly came away took a good month to heal properly, because i used the emergency branch of my vets over easter. 

Other than mites (which you would see flaky skin all over) there is nothing else nasty that i can think of that would cause this type of skin irritation. Your vets should be able to put some gel or a blue spray (rabbits dont like the sound of the spray so spray into a cup and then dap) on the sore to stop flys laying eggs in it, this will need to be repeated at least every few days til it is fully healed.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

emzybabe said:


> i would change vets


they're the better of the two vets. Only a small town.



> Miffy recently had a very nasty reaction to the baytril jab, it killed off a good inch of skin all around and that eventually scabed and very slowly came away took a good month to heal properly, because i used the emergency branch of my vets over easter.
> 
> Other than mites (which you would see flaky skin all over) there is nothing else nasty that i can think of that would cause this type of skin irritation. Your vets should be able to put some gel or a blue spray (rabbits dont like the sound of the spray so spray into a cup and then dap) on the sore to stop flys laying eggs in it, this will need to be repeated at least every few days til it is fully healed.


it looks totally different already, a yellowish grey colour, no angry red bits like there were and it's gone all hard and dry so I don't have any worries there.

Thanks for the advice though


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

Got a reply from the breeder today, he denied the he was ill when he left and said she wouldn't have sold him.

I've replied basically saying
- I have a vet bill from the day after I got him, he couldn't have got so crusty so quickly
- I think I'm being reasonable in asking for the money
- I think it says a lot that she's shown no concern for his current state.
- it's possible he has a weak immune system either due to breeding or poor living conditions with her so she should be wary of whoever she got the breeding pair from.
- I think it's in her interest to make sure the animals still in her care are healthy rather than denying he was ever ill to avoid shelling out a few quid. 


I think I may phone the rspca again tomorrow, but I'll wait for a response from her before contacting citizens advice.

I'm sure you're all sick of this thread by now!


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

beautiful little rescue bunny! keep fighting the breeder! they sound terrible!  x


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

It's entirely possible the stress of moving to a new home brought out an underlying condition. I would mention this to the vet next time and see if they agree (I think they will as this is fairly common). Put this to the breeder as well. They may be unaware (or uncaring) of a subclinical infection in their stock, which would only come to light when the animals have gone to new homes. Basically if something crops up within 7-10 days, then the infection was probably already present as most bacterial and viral infections take 10-14 days to incubate. So if this started so soon, it can't have been anything caught from your existing animals and must have already been present.

This is why most insurance schemes don't cover the first 2 weeks.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

MerlinsMum said:


> It's entirely possible the stress of moving to a new home brought out an underlying condition. I would mention this to the vet next time and see if they agree (I think they will as this is fairly common). Put this to the breeder as well. They may be unaware (or uncaring) of a subclinical infection in their stock, which would only come to light when the animals have gone to new homes. Basically if something crops up within 7-10 days, then the infection was probably already present as most bacterial and viral infections take 10-14 days to incubate. So if this started so soon, it can't have been anything caught from your existing animals and must have already been present.
> 
> This is why most insurance schemes don't cover the first 2 weeks.


He was showing signs of the illness the first time I visited, which was 2 weeks before I got him. 
The vet and I are both fairly sure it was the stress of living in a tiny filthy hutch that's suppressed his immune system and allowed the bacteria (most likely caught from his mother) to multiply. I'm hopeful as he settles in to his new life with me he'll only get better.


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## BattleKat (Oct 26, 2009)

update on Eli
Took him to the vet again this morning and the stuck some dye in his eye to see if it would come out of his nose. It didn't so she said they'll flush his tear duct when he's under for the neutering and she's given me some decongestant.
She said his lungs, heart and temperature are all fine and if he's eating and drinking well and still being bouncy with no deterioration in the last couple of weeks then she's doubtful it's any kind of infection. 
She reckons it could just be crap up his nose from where he was before or hayfever. 
when I got him home the dye had started coming out of his nose so I phoned them up and she said that that's fine, carry on with the decongestant and there's no need to flush his tear duct. 

His eyes have also got much better since I started cleaning them, virtually no discharge in the last couple of days.

I'm so happy! It's such a relief to know he'll be fine to go in with the girls and won't be a sick bunny for the rest of his life (assuming they've got it right this time!)


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

glad everything is going well  x


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## Zippstar (Sep 25, 2008)

BattleKat said:


> update on Eli
> Took him to the vet again this morning and the stuck some dye in his eye to see if it would come out of his nose. It didn't so she said they'll flush his tear duct when he's under for the neutering and she's given me some decongestant.
> She said his lungs, heart and temperature are all fine and if he's eating and drinking well and still being bouncy with no deterioration in the last couple of weeks then she's doubtful it's any kind of infection.
> She reckons it could just be crap up his nose from where he was before or hayfever.
> ...


:thumbup: hope he continues to do well; not sick of the thread at all! just hope the breeder gets what she deserves!


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