# Warning graphic pics of c section



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

This is peaches belly now iv cleaned her but can you see the bruising to me it looks as though the vets were rough what do you think?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

omg that looks awful, poor peaches.
the wound looks open at the start of the stitches and the bruising, well i would be very peed off with that job.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> omg that looks awful, poor peaches.
> the wound looks open at the start of the stitches and the bruising, well i would be very peed off with that job.


it is cc i have been covering that part with a plaster so kittens cant scratch it thats why when i got home and saw it i was in shock its scabbing over now but the hole was like size of a 5p


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Poor girl......

No wonder she looked so miserable in that pic.

I would never go back to the vet that did this, and have that wound checked by another vet tomorrow.......


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## Kittenfostermummy (Jul 25, 2011)

That does not look like a good wound (and I work in a vets so see plenty of wounds!!) The stitches start too far away from the edge of the wound, it has bleed too much for my liking and the fact there is bruising means there has been bleeding under the skin and I would be worried that they missed tying something off tight enough. All in all I would get her checked out either by another vet in the practice or a completely different practice if I was you!!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

That vets wants me to go it post op check monday she was trying to get me to make an appointment but i said ineed to go and walked out.No not using them.

You think this pic is bad it is 1000 x better than yesterday with the blood trickling out  all kittens just kept getting covered in blood i had to clean her up as the kittens wouldnt smell her milk it was all over the place.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Kittenfostermummy said:


> That does not look like a good wound (and I work in a vets so see plenty of wounds!!) The stitches start too far away from the edge of the wound, it has bleed too much for my liking and the fact there is bruising means there has been bleeding under the skin and I would be worried that they missed tying something off tight enough. All in all I would get her checked out either by another vet in the practice or a completely different practice if I was you!!


She seems content enough but i will take her for a post op check just not with the original vets..feel like printing these pics and taking them to them.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I could have done a better job with a knife and fork 
I have ,obviously ,never had a cat with a c section but I have had a dog that had to have a dead puppy removed (not one of mine ) and her wound looked nothing like that


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor girl, far messier than other pics I've seen, they just look like a regular spay (but larger).

I fear something like this happening, the vets closest to me aren't somewhere I would normally go, but my usual vet is 90 mins away - too far for an emergency


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

Stitching is not that vets forty! Unless they have left the hole for drainage purposes I suspect it is going to be prone to infection.

Poor wee girlie.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Poor girl, far messier than other pics I've seen, they just look like a regular spay (but larger).
> 
> I fear something like this happening, the vets closest to me aren't somewhere I would normally go, but my usual vet is 90 mins away - too far for an emergency


Thats another point to sc's i could have gone 5 mins down road but went to my vets 20mins drive away.

They charged me £100 more than they quoted me on the night.

They charged me for a spay on top of the section as she needed spaying £48,dont know if thats normal as she was already opened up wasnt she i think they have just seen me coming and i reckon its when they realised she was a ped they thought 'we can get an extra £100 here'

The receptionist couldnt and didnt know where to order me a feeding tube from,wanted it for the weak kitten,she told me to go pet shop..wtf.

When i first called them when i thought we were gettimg probs she said 'cats arnt like dogs and its normal for cats to take 3 days to give birth ' lets face it that not the norm though.

So i said 'im a breeder and i feel somethings wrong' she said 'oh right bring her in for a check then'

Grrr stupid people.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

My girl took 3 days from the mucus plug to come away to having her contractions, not 3 days with pushing and after a kitten had been born.

I wouldnt be happy with this, is peaches on antibiotics?

I think if it was my girl, i would take her for her checkup to ensure she is fine and ask the vet to GLUE the end which is open (if there is no reason why they left the hole there, of course). xx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> My girl took 3 days from the mucus plug to come away to having her contractions, not 3 days with pushing and after a kitten had been born.
> 
> I wouldnt be happy with this, is peaches on antibiotics?
> 
> I think if it was my girl, i would take her for her checkup to ensure she is fine and ask the vet to GLUE the end which is open (if there is no reason why they left the hole there, of course). xx


They said when i phoned that she was given an injection of painkiller and antibiotics does not say this on bill though.

The hole is now filled with dried blood like a scab so i think its protected enough now.

I certainly wont be taking her for her post op check to that vets! 'monday'

And they also want me to go back in 14 days to take out her stitches but no thery arnt touching her again.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> My girl took 3 days from the mucus plug to come away to having her contractions, not 3 days with pushing and after a kitten had been born.
> 
> I wouldnt be happy with this, is peaches on antibiotics?
> 
> I think if it was my girl, i would take her for her checkup to ensure she is fine and ask the vet to GLUE the end which is open (if there is no reason why they left the hole there, of course). xx


Peaches was a couple of days with her plug and i have noticed tass looks like she had some mucus plug leaking shes due tue so fits in with the timing.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Oh poor peaches... Wot the hell have they done to her, blunt knife or wot.... I would sent a letter of complaint with the pics and you want compo .. That's not right ... Am lucky I have a fab vet . Am surprised you have not totally mental with them ...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Oh poor peaches... Wot the hell have they done to her, blunt knife or wot.... I would sent a letter of complaint with the pics and you want compo .. That's not right ... Am lucky I have a fab vet . Am surprised you have not totally mental with them ...


Think i was too tired to argue with them at the time,i wasstood at their reception shaking my head at them with my head in my hands.

Not tired now though


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Think i was too tired to argue with them at the time,i wasstood at their reception shaking my head at them with my head in my hands.
> 
> Not tired now though


See wot the other vets says about it, but I think you have a case with her op and weak kitten , it's not right .. Things like this make me so mad ..


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> See wot the other vets says about it, but I think you have a case with her op and weak kitten , it's not right .. Things like this make me so mad ..


Yes i learnt the hardway with this one.Iv been with these vets years now but never had an emergency as such.

The attitude and manner they spoke to me was unreal and has made me realise where my customer loyalty is best placed elsewhere!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Not sure if you can see the wound, but here's a couple of pics of my girls post C section.

Their wounds were big, but very clean and totally closed. No bleeding other than a tiny amount of seepage from kitten claws scratching.

Are the pics good enough? Can you see the C section wound? If not, will try and find others for you. This is what one should look like though.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

wow carly that looks so clean and i cat even see the stitches! Here the wound was left part open and the stitches are massive they are loosely placed.It has nitted together nicely now though and no infection or smell but seriously what a botch job.Alot of bruising too carly.


Eta those babies of yours looked totally scrummy!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Not sure if you can see the wound, but here's a couple of pics of my girls post C section.
> 
> Their wounds were big, but very clean and totally closed. No bleeding other than a tiny amount of seepage from kitten claws scratching.
> 
> Are the pics good enough? Can you see the C section wound? If not, will try and find others for you. This is what one should look like though.


That is so clean and wot I would like it to look like ... Is that still with stitches still in Carly87


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Carly, your girls wound is what i would expect, clean and tight.
WLBSH girl peaches, her wound is a mess.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Thats another point to sc's i could have gone 5 mins down road but went to my vets 20mins drive away.
> 
> They charged me £100 more than they quoted me on the night.
> 
> ...


Get a second opinion, get them to put it in writing and SUE them for the messed up job and the dead kitten. If they had provided you with a feeding tube like they should he might have lived.

And SUE them for spaying at the same time, which you didn't ask to be done during this emergency procedure at emergency tariff, and, if you had been told, you would have forbidden them to have done till the kittens were weaned.

They messed up BIG TIME.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

She didn't have a choice about Peaches being spayed - her uterus had ruptured. And jumping straight to sueing doesn't usually help and should be an action of last resort, not first.

Personally I would go back to them on Monday, and make sure I discussed my unhappiness about the incision and the kitten with them. But you have to have your thoughts well organised first to try to do this.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

If you were to go back to htem on monday, I would make sure not to go alone, but to bring someone along with plenty of knowledge about breeding and Caesarians.
Someone they cannot fib off with lame excuses and generalizations.

It would help in more ways than one:
extra knowledge and less emotional involvement, so they could ask all the right questions and bring your point across when it gets too emotional for you.

Edit:
What I mean is:
they are probably going to say it was an emergency, it was the middle of the night, they had to act quickly....

Which may all be very true, but a caesarian is usually an emergency, and if the uterus isn't ruptured, it might still happen any minute if they do not take proper and decisive action...

It may be the middle of the night, but if you are the vet on call, you need to be in proper shape to perform....

There is no need whatsoever to stitch her up in such a sloppy manner, and if they had a reason to leave the wound part open, they should have explained this to you.

They told you she had an AB shot, but you have no proof if and what she was given...

Their attitude after the op and when you contacted them for a feeding tube was absolutely appalling. Any vet sould be able to provide them, and vets that cater for breeders even more so.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Really peed off with this vets iv just called them to tell them how unhappy i am about the work they have done i asked to speak with vet who did the op receptionist told me shes not there been a right cow with me.

I said well i want your email adress and i want you to get someone to look at the mess your have made of her as everyone whos seen her wound thinks its horrific.She said well no one will look at them while monday now!!  


OS- tbh i dont want to take her back to that vets i do not trust them.

J- no i dont think i have and grounds re the spay as vet asked me if it was ok to spay if they found a mojor prob,which they say they did.

Im fuming now.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

The one thing they need to realize is that THEY depend on their customers as much as, or even more than, their customers depend on them.

YOU may always choose to use another vet, but if too many people do, THEY will go out of business. And if they antagonize breeders by doing a sloppy job and being unhelpful in an emergency, the word will spread like wildfire all over the feline community.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

If you set a letter then email it to me I will sort and amend it for you ... If you try and put as much info ... Dates , times and the general feeling from you and vets .. Am good at complaints but need facts ... I will do it this afternoon


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> The one thing they need to realize is that THEY depend on their customers as much as, or even more than, their customers depend on them.
> 
> YOU may always choose to use another vet, but if too many people do, THEY will go out of business. And if they antagonize breeders by doing a sloppy job and being unhelpful in an emergency, the word will spread like wildfire all over the feline community.


Thats true jiskefet god im mad.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Millie's wound was stitched. The other cat is Tia. She had internal stitches and glue. These were all taken no more than 48 hours post C section, when bruising from any bleeding is really obvious. Tia's was done in normal surgery hours with a yield of 3 kittens. Millie's, the stitched one, was done at 9 on a Sunday evening. The surgery was closed. No vets were ready to work, but my own vet came and brought in 2 nurses and a second vety. This is why I love her. This was all to ensure a good, clean job and no kitten loss. Millie's is bigger because she had a yield of 5 kittens, and again, none of them lost thanks to my vet. In fairness, one of mine was freezing cold and off colour too, and she didn't only have them on a heat pad, she put them on a bear hugger too, a blanket designed to maintain a constant body temp so effectively it's used in hospitals for hypothermic patients, and still he was cold and pretty lifeless. However, because the family was brought straight home to me, I was able to work on the kitten constantly. The vet also expressed colostrum and syringe fed even before she brought him home. It took hours of constant work, but within about 3 hours of being sectioned, the kitten was feeding. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe BSH's kitten got the same level of input from the vet.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

As this is the first_ official_ contact about your dealings with them, I would advise you to make the letter very factual and less emotional, no accusations, but rather use terms like not happy, confused, getting the impression that such and such has not gone well....

Do mention the kitten's condition, but instead of accusing them _at this stage_, let them know you have consulted other breeders, and their experiences with THEIR vets are very different, and that they thnk the third kitten could have been saved if given adequate care.

You can also say _you_ have experienced the attitude of the receptionists as unhelpful, offhand and less than knowledgeable, but do not, _as yet_, claim that they WERE.

What I mean is: _at this stage_, just state the facts concerning other people's experiences with caesarians and emergency treatments, and the way their vets go about it, without going to war.

Give them a chance to explain the situation and to negotiate compensation.

Given the fact that you will inform them you are in touch with multiple breeders, they will probably realize things can get really nasty if you pursue this, and that it will harm their practice if you do.
Moreover, you will get more information about the actual situation and a greater chance of compensation if you offer them a chance to settle this in a sophisticated manner. If you start a war on them straight away, they will have no option but to fight back....


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

My suggestion:

Dear sirs,
My pregnant breeding queen Peaches was admitted to your surgery for an emergency caesarian on the night of 6/3/2013. She was delivered of 3 kittens, one of which had got stuck in the birth canal. I was told to come and collect her at 9 am the following morning and, on arrival, was kept waiting for 30 minutes. Peaches and her babies were then handed over to me in the waiting room.

The kitten that had been stuck was barely alive, he was cold and purple, and I got the impression no attempts had been made overnight to revive him, and to keep them all warm and show them how to suckle. As this is Peaches' first litter, it is essential her behaviour towards the kittens and their progress should be closely monitored, especially during these first hours.

When I contacted the surgery, looking to find a feeding tube to hand-feed the struggling kitten, I was told by your receptionist to go to a pet shop. Unfortunately, the pet shops do not carry them, and as I could not get the kitten to suckle with his mother, he subsequently died. 

The operation wound looked really ugly and had started bleeding, and the smell of the milk was drowned out by the stench of fresh blood. I had to clean Peaches up before the other kittens would start to suckle. Moreover, the stitches look really clumsy and barely seem to hold the wound together.

I contacted several fellow breeders for confirmation and advice, and one of them got me a feeding tube. However, by that time, the kitten had already died. I also showed them the pictures of Peaches' operation wound, and none of them had ever seen anything like it. They unanimously advise me to get a second opinion on the surgery performed and the subsequent (lack of) attention paid to mother and kittens.

I fully intend to get this second opinion, but I would like to hear your account of the surgery and the post-natal care provided to Peaches and her kittens at your practice. I phoned the practice and asked to talk to the vet who performed the op, but your receptionist would not put me through, nor did she offer to have the vet ring me back.

Needless to say I am less than happy with your service.
I would appreciate a prompt reaction, preferably in writing. If you insist on a personal meeting, I will be accompanied by a highly experienced fellow breeder, as I am extremely upset at my cat's present condition and the loss of her kitten and will need an objective, clearheaded and knowledgeable person to support me and ask the right questions.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I strongly advise you to bring an experienced breeder if you do meet them face to face, and let them do the talking.

It will put pressure on them to know you have a witness, and it will stop you from getting all emotional and saying the wrong things...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Whislt it might be true, I don't feel that phrases like 'I am sick' will not help your cause. My view is you need to be polite and assertive.

PS if you write, run your letter through a spelling & grammar checker before sending it.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Jiskefet said:


> <snip>
> if they antagonize breeders by doing a sloppy job and being unhelpful in an emergency, the word will spread like wildfire all over the feline community.


Think you are overstating the breeder card.

Most of their clients will not be breeders, and most of their cat-owning clients don't know a breeder. Some of them probably think breeders are the scum of the earth.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Don't really think so....

If breeders advise the people who buy their kittens about good vets, and they talk to each other at shows, the word will spread. And many people who know a breeder will turn to them for advice.

It takes years to build up a good reputation, but only 5 seconds to ruin it......


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

To be fair though, pedigree cats make up such a small majority of their work, that even if we all boycot them, it wouldn't make a dent!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

The GCCF registered just under 22,000 in 2011. There are about 8,000,000 pet cats in the UK, if you assume 22,000 registered for each of the past 15 years that makes 330,000 pedigree cats out of 8,000,000 - that makes 4% assuming they all lived for 15 years. 

If we assume that cats and dogs each account for 50% of a vet's business (unlikely - dogs cost a lot more at the vets and are more likely to be taken to the vets for routine care) then that will affect at most 2% of a vet's business.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

how about this?



For the attention of the Practice Manager

I write with great anger and deepest regret, with regards to the service and professionalism of your Practice and the members of staff within it.

I now would like to know why the following was not dealt with in a professional manner.

My cat was admitted to your practice on the evening on the 6/3/2013 as she was experiencing problems giving birth to her litter.

That evening, although late at night, the vet performed a C-Section .. I thought i had left my girl in the best possible hands... How wrong I was!

The vet rang me in the early hours to tell me that the C-Section had been done and that that we had 3 Kittens although one was week. I was told to collect mum in the morning at 9am... It was a great relief after a very stressful day, that my girl was in safe hands and the kittens were going to be looked after overnight by professional people.

I arrived at 9am the next morning as requested, expecting to be seen shortly. I was left in the waiting room for 30 minuites and then to my horror i was handed my girl and kittens in the waiting room. The weakest kitten was almost dead, he was very cold and purple... This kitten appeared not to have been monitored on a heat pad and definately not had the care it should have had recieved while at your practice and I got the impression no attempts had been made overnight to revive him, and to keep them all warm and show them how to suckle. As this is Peaches' first litter, it is essential her behaviour towards the kittens and their progress should be closely monitored, especially during these first hours.


I ended up with a distressed and confussed mum and even weaker kittens!

Once we were home I checked mum out... Too my horror she has the most horrific wound, the operation wound looked really ugly and had started bleeding, and the smell of the milk was drowned out by the stench of fresh blood. I had to clean Peaches up before the other kittens would start to suckle. Moreover, the stitches look really clumsy and barely seem to hold the wound together.... I undertsand that its was late at night but i expected a lot better from a qualified vet... Please see attached pictures of the vets work... I am sure you would agree this is not acceptable.

I fully intend to get this second opinioned, but I would like to hear your account of the surgery and the post-natal care provided to Peaches and her kittens at your practice. I phoned the practice and asked to talk to the vet who performed the op, but your receptionist would not put me through, nor did she offer to have the vet ring me back.also your reception staff seem to have little knowledge around this work i asked for a feeding tube for the weak kitten,as i knew i would require one to save him..she didnt know how to order one 


I contacted several fellow breeders for confirmation and advice, and one of them got me a feeding tube. However, by that time, the kitten had already died. I also showed them the pictures of Peaches' operation wound, and none of them had ever seen seen such a horrific section.. 
They unanimously advise me to get a second opinion on the surgery performed and the subsequent (lack of) attention paid to mother and kittens.


I have also been advised to make a complaint to the Royal Vetinary College .

Needless to say I am less than happy with your service.
I would appreciate a prompt reaction, preferably in writing. If you insist on a personal meeting, I will be accompanied by a highly experienced fellow breeder, as I am extremely upset at my cat's present condition and the loss of her kitten and will need an objective, clearheaded and knowledgeable person to support me and ask the right questions.Both myself and my cats have received unacceptable service from your practice and staff. 

Before i take this any further i am giving your the opportunity to respond to my letter. 
I look forward to hearing from you in the very near future

Yours

Sara Gibson


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

A very good letter.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Well cant wait to hit them with it!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

spid said:


> A very good letter.


Bloody perfect


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Obviously i cant take all the glory i had great ideas from both cosmills and jiskefet.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Poor Peaches. I do hope you get a proper response from the vet in question as well as the practice and aren't just fobbed off.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I would leave out the personal, emotional and accusational bits, keep it very factual. From the facts you provide, it is quite obvious you are upset and angry, without you stating so. Simply state you are not happy with the proceedings, without actually accusing them of malpractice. 

I know it is how you feel, and I dare say you are probably absolutely right, but strictly speaking, this is a business dispute and you need to approach it as such, however personal it is to you. They may have misjudged the stiuation or the vet who performed the op may, in hindsight, have had insufficient experience with a ruptured uterus and emergency spaying.

The letter I wrote would be the kind of thing a sollicitor would suggest as a first contact: no accusations, just an expression of dissatisfaction at the service provided and a demand to explain themselves. If they fail to cooperate or try to cover up their mistakes, there is more than enough time to go into attack mode.

After all, making mistakes is only human, however sad the outcome may be, and if they own up, there is no need to for things to get nasty. If they get a clean, factual letter from you, they may even believe you sought legal aid, even though you state nothing to that effect, and it may have them want to resolve it without a sollicitor getting involved any further.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> Poor Peaches. I do hope you get a proper response from the vet in question as well as the practice and aren't just fobbed off.


Hopefully lyn this will get past that bloomin receptionist as its address to practict manager,i hope she gets a goog ticking off that will wipe the smugness from her.Iv gone from feeling so very angry to feeling like a huge weight lifted,a bit of justice for peaches and the little one.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Let's hope you get a proper response and some explanation as to how they worked, what decisions were made and on what basis.

People never seem to realize that even a fatal mistake can be forgiven if people understand how it could be made, and that the person who made it is truly concerned about it and is willing to own up.

It is their trying to cover up or put the blame elsewhere that infuriates the victims more than anything.....


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Totally agree and i will update with info as of when i get any.

Thanx all.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Sorry but just one slight question i would like to ask....
why are you offering a personal meeting with them, wouldnt it be better and for future reference to have everything in writing, thats what i would do.
I would state correspondence to be in writing, not if you would like a personal meeting. do you get what i mean. 

Also can you find out who the vet was, chances are this letter wont get past the receptionist so phone to ask who the vet was that operated then you are dealing directly with one person rather than the receptionist who basically only answers the phone.

im going to pm you a legal link, im sure theis will help and they maybe able to inform you of your chances.

i dont want to put a downer on this as you are in the right and i honestly dont think the staff kept these kittens warm, what we dont want is for them to say the procedure is a risk as that will close the door on the complaint, this needs to be handled professionally.

If you need any help let me know. xxxxx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Sorry but just one slight question i would like to ask....
> why are you offering a personal meeting with them, wouldnt it be better and for future reference to have everything in writing, thats what i would do.
> I would state correspondence to be in writing, not if you would like a personal meeting. do you get what i mean.
> 
> ...


cc i have no real intentions of meeting them but if i have to it would be with someone to witness goings on,i do want everything in writng,and tbh alls i really want from this is for them to admit its a mess and for them to get that snotty receptionist to say sorry and for them to be sorry of the whole situation.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

sheesh! that's a huge wound - my Lottie had a c-section and spey and her wound was 2 inches long and very neat .....


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Soupie said:


> sheesh! that's a huge wound - my Lottie had a c-section and spey and her wound was 2 inches long and very neat .....


Really soupie?,


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

Hiya

That wound is awful.......just want to say glad she's on the mend and getting stronger everyday.

I wouldn't pay the bill till they have taken some recognistion for that mess and ther vet has seen and spoken to you.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

kelzcats said:


> Hiya
> 
> That wound is awful.......just want to say glad she's on the mend and getting stronger everyday.
> 
> I wouldn't pay the bill till they have taken some recognistion for that mess and ther vet has seen and spoken to you.


They told me the cat wouldnt be released untill the bill was paid and i was worried peaches would be stressed there,looking back im glad i paid and got her out as them kittens would be dead now them vets are clueless they expect to chuck kits with mum and hey presto,you and me both know thats not how breeding goes.


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## Cats cats cats (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm so saddened by this  poor peaches  I don't really know what else to say, I'm so disgusted at your vet !!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

WLBSH-I'm really sorry to hear the little one didn't make it but glad to hear the other two are doing well. (I'm only catching up here today as too cold to go out yet, though I have to shortly!) Also, it's too bad you have the added complication of having to deal with the vets, never easy at times like this.

I hear congratulations are in order though!. Glad to read about your own news!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Ianthi said:


> WLBSH-I'm really sorry to hear the little one didn't make it but glad to hear the other two are doing well. (I'm only catching up here today as too cold to go out yet, though I have to shortly!) Also, it's too bad you have the added complication of having to deal with the vets, never easy at times like this.
> 
> I hear congratulations are in order though!. Glad to read about your own news!


lol thankyou ianthi,yep some nightmare its been but hey thing look bright now.


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> They told me the cat wouldnt be released untill the bill was paid and i was worried peaches would be stressed there,looking back im glad i paid and got her out as them kittens would be dead now them vets are clueless they expect to chuck kits with mum and hey presto,you and me both know thats not how breeding goes.


I sure as hell wouldn't go back to them again or let them near any of my cats or kittens you have had a bad experiance dont let them do a repeat of this as i know you wont.

Well as long as peaches is on the mend and babies are well lets thank god for that.

I hope i never have to go through something like that but as you know anything can happen in breeding....i'm keeping my fingers crossed for my 3 girls one of which i'm trying for the last time as her last litter was a singleton partialy reabsorbed, that was awful


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

kelzcats said:


> I sure as hell wouldn't go back to them again or let them near any of my cats or kittens you have had a bad experiance dont let them do a repeat of this as i know you wont.
> 
> Well as long as peaches is on the mend and babies are well lets thank god for that.
> 
> I hope i never have to go through something like that but as you know anything can happen in breeding....i'm keeping my fingers crossed for my 3 girls one of which i'm trying for the last time as* her last litter was a singleton partialy reabsorbed, that was awful*



Really do you mind me asking what happened?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

My girls first litter wasnt formed properly, she had 3 what i can only descibe as lumps of steak, vet said it was just placenta and no kittens formed but im not convinced.
Her next litter she had 3 beautiful kittens although she did have 4 inside her as the last kitten was born 36 hours later.
After that i just had her neutered and shes now my pet.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> My girls first litter wasnt formed properly, she had 3 what i can only descibe as lumps of steak, vet said it was just placenta and no kittens formed but im not convinced.
> Her next litter she had 3 beautiful kittens although she did have 4 inside her as the last kitten was born 36 hours later.
> After that i just had her neutered and shes now my pet.


Was the 4th ok?


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Those stitches look really loose and totally unprofessional! :frown2:

I hope you get her sorted out, poor Peaches!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

JordanRose said:


> Those stitches look really loose and totally unprofessional! :frown2:
> 
> I hope you get her sorted out, poor Peaches!


There are very loose i could get a pen under them if i wanted to not much point to them really.

Shes fine now shes healing up nice and very content.Bless her.


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> [/B]
> Really do you mind me asking what happened?


No course i dont mind you asking we are all her to share our breeding issues!

Pregnancy seemed to be going well all as planed belly growing, 2 weeks before her due date she started losing mucus so i brought her in, couldn't see no kitten movement over the next few days but wasn't overly concerned as she only had 1 in her last litter and 3 before that so i thought another singleton with lots of room. Due date come and went then at 70 days she was labouring and at 10.00pm it looked like she was deliver a tail and then what was like worms but when it come out it was the intestines.....a few limbs, partial head. It was about 7 weeks gestation i would guess. She was licking it bless her i just had to remove it.

I just sat and cryed i have never seen anything like that before as i have previously said in threads breeding brings many problems, and joys.

Vet said stress or a virus......so she is by herself this time.

So i let her have a call and on her second call i breed her....belly is growing but i'm not looking forward to it, if it goes wrong again i'm getting her spayed.

Fingers crossed all goes well she is due in just over 3 weeks, so keeping a close eye on her.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

omg, i really feel for you this is awful but thankyou for sharing with us.
Paws crossed for a healthy litter this time. xxxxx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

kelzcats said:


> No course i dont mind you asking we are all her to share our breeding issues!
> 
> Pregnancy seemed to be going well all as planed belly growing, 2 weeks before her due date she started losing mucus so i brought her in, couldn't see no kitten movement over the next few days but wasn't overly concerned as she only had 1 in her last litter and 3 before that so i thought another singleton with lots of room. Due date come and went then at 70 days she was labouring and at 10.00pm it looked like she was deliver a tail and then what was like worms but when it come out it was the intestines.....a few limbs, partial head. It was about 7 weeks gestation i would guess. She was licking it bless her i just had to remove it.
> 
> ...


Must have been awful to watch,best of look with her next litter.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Poor Peaches, xxx

WLBS - if you havent sent the letter yet, make sure you send it by special or recorded delivery and be specific - give them a date which you expect to hear from them by xxx


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> omg, i really feel for you this is awful but thankyou for sharing with us.
> Paws crossed for a healthy litter this time. xxxxx


Thanks cc will let you know how she goes.


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Must have been awful to watch,best of look with her next litter.


It was awful thanks i will let you know how things go!

Hows peaches and your other girl (tass)? doing?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

kelzcats said:


> It was awful thanks i will let you know how things go!
> 
> Hows peaches and your other girl (tass)? doing?


Peaches is loving being a mum really suits her.Ni sihn of tass startin yet shes due tomorrow.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

welshjet said:


> Poor Peaches, xxx
> 
> WLBS - if you havent sent the letter yet, make sure you send it by special or recorded delivery and be specific - give them a date which you expect to hear from them by xxx


I emailed it so i have proof if need be,just rang to ask why iv nt had a response as of yet i got told practice manager was at their other practice so i said well give him a nudge then.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> I emailed it so i have proof if need be,just rang to ask why iv nt had a response as of yet i got told practice manager was at their other practice so i said well give him a nudge then.


Did you remember to set the flag requesting a receipt to show it's been read? How to do that depends on your email client.

Hope you printed it out first, when doing a grant application I found that what read fine on the screen wasn't always so great when I printed it and read it on paper. The process of printing and reading gave me the space to stand back from it a bit.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Did you remember to set the flag requesting a receipt to show it's been read? How to do that depends on your email client.
> 
> Hope you printed it out first, when doing a grant application I found that what read fine on the screen wasn't always so great when I printed it and read it on paper. The process of printing and reading gave me the space to stand back from it a bit.


No idea how to do that OS.

I didnt print it out the printer is out of ink. But i have read it over and over and was happy with it.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> No idea how to do that OS.


Oh well. You can probably find out with google - put in the name of your mail client (look in 'Help->About' if you are not sure) and 'read receipt' and you should find lots of pages telling you how to do it. Most of them will put that request on the email these days.

Email tracking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Oh well. You can probably find out with google - put in the name of your mail client (look in 'Help->About' if you are not sure) and 'read receipt' and you should find lots of pages telling you how to do it. Most of them will put that request on the email these days.
> 
> Email tracking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


What it for? to see if they have read the email?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> What it for? to see if they have read the email?


Yes. Exactly.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Yes. Exactly.


Thats cool will have to learn how to do this.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

If you wanted to send me the email im happy to print off and post to you hun. xxx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> If you wanted to send me the email im happy to print off and post to you hun. xxx


Its fine cc,going to try sort some ink out over weekend going to need some for the pedigrees anyway.Thankyou for the offer.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Just recieved this email; 

Ms Gibson,


Thank-you for your email, it will be read in detail and replied to by post after the case has been reviewed, and any deficiencies discussed with the relevant parties.




***** veterinary practice.


 thats pants.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

It is a bit, isn't it? They'll want to review their records and speak to the vet, naturally, but a 'sorry to read how dissatisfied you are.. etc" would have been nice.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> It is a bit, isn't it? They'll want to review their records and speak to the vet, naturally, but a 'sorry to read how dissatisfied you are.. etc" would have been nice.


Exactly my thoughts gskinner.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

This is wha tI expected. They are now being very, very careful and they'll say nothing which they might later regret. Now's the time to take a step back emotionally, and also be very very careful about how you phrase things to them.


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## CoCoTrio (Jan 3, 2013)

It might be a good sign. If they're taking this seriously then they won't want to offer any suggestion of 'sorry' or acknowledgement of dissatisfaction even. That message is just a notification of receipt really. The explanations, excuses, apologies and the rest of it should follow on once they decide who to blame, or how otherwise to deal with it. I'd be encouraged by that terse reply, I think it sounds pretty serious.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

carly87 said:


> This is wha tI expected. They are now being very, very careful and they'll say nothing which they might later regret. Now's the time to take a step back emotionally, and also be very very careful about how you phrase things to them.





CoCoTrio said:


> It might be a good sign. If they're taking this seriously then they won't want to offer any suggestion of 'sorry' or acknowledgement of dissatisfaction even. That message is just a notification of receipt really. The explanations, excuses, apologies and the rest of it should follow on once they decide who to blame, or how otherwise to deal with it. I'd be encouraged by that terse reply, I think it sounds pretty serious.


Thats good to hear,All i want is a sorry yes were in wrong here.That would do.

Cosmills went to her vets yesterday while she was there she showed her vet peaches pics and the vet said it was indeed a terrible section,he then went on to sow her a cat who had just had a section and it looked clean,neat ant tidy.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Cosmills went to her vets yesterday while she was there she showed her vet peaches pics and the vet said it was indeed a terrible section,he then went on to sow her a cat who had just had a section and it looked clean,neat ant tidy.


Ask him to make a written statement to that effect and I bet he wouldn't. (Though I agree with him entirely).

Perhaps I'm just being pedantic and, hopefully, the terse reply will have no bearing either way but I just think it courteous and good business practice to initially say sorry you weren't happy with the service you received.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Good thing is the bruising has now gone and the hole is very closed its healing super.Glad i took those pics though.


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## Chiantina (Oct 16, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Thats good to hear,All i want is a sorry yes were in wrong here.That would do.


A "sorry" is an admission of liability and leaves them open to being sued, that'll be why they haven't said it. They are obviously being super careful what they say!

A friend of mine is a solicitor and she deals with a lot of civil litigation stuff (she is also a cat owner and fosters rescued rabbits!) so I can get her thoughts if you like?! I am seeing her on Saturday!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Chiantina said:


> A "sorry" is an admission of liability and leaves them open to being sued, that'll be why they haven't said it. They are obviously being super careful what they say!
> 
> A friend of mine is a solicitor and she deals with a lot of civil litigation stuff (she is also a cat owner and fosters rescued rabbits!) so I can get her thoughts if you like?! I am seeing her on Saturday!


Yeah cool.

So what would you expect they will say when they write to me?

You know i was talking to some one yesterday who knows someone who took a bitch in for a section they took pups out sent her home,when she got home two more pups were delivered dead.

Now that is bad,i believe she is sueing them,and rightly so.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't think it is an admission of liability. I know I'm nitpicking and I really don't believe the question of how they worded that response will be particularly relevant to the outcome - perhaps someone there just isn't very good at writing letters - but call me old fashioned (which I am) a 'sorry you weren't happy with our service' at least shows concern for the customer's dissatisfaction whilst they actually look into the circumstances and decide, in their opinion, whether the service they actually provided was satisfactory or not.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> So what would you expect they will say when they write to me?


I think it's impossible to try and second guess them. My personal experience of making (two, on separate occasions) formal complaints to vets didn't prove to have, for me, a positive outcome. The senior partner/practice owner defended the locum who had treated my cats and basically told me to take a running jump. This was despite the fact that I knew the care had been seriously lacking. On the other hand, I know two breeders personally who quite recently complained (actually, again in regard to c-sections) where the c-section costs were fully refunded...one with an admission of "we should have done a lot better" and the other without any admission.


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## CoCoTrio (Jan 3, 2013)

I agree with you GS. Personally I'd find it very uncomfortable to write a reply to a letter like WLBSH's without at least a hint of empathy or a bit of a personal touch. I agree that there must be some form of words which is polite and gracious without being a legal liability, but they may be nervous about risking trying to find them. 

Old-fashioned is good.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I think it's impossible to try and second guess them. My personal experience of making (two, on separate occasions) formal complaints to vets didn't prove to have, for me, a positive outcome. The senior partner/practice owner defended the locum who had treated my cats and basically told me to take a running jump. This was despite the fact that I knew the care had been seriously lacking. On the other hand, I know two breeders personally who quite recently complained (actually, again in regard to c-sections) where the c-section costs were fully refunded...one with an admission of "we should have done a lot better" and the other without any admission.


Thats a small hope then.


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## Chiantina (Oct 16, 2012)

"Sorry" can be seen as an admission of liability in legal terms because it implies they have something to be sorry for (which in this case, they blinking well have!!). That is why they won't have said it and I personally believe that the reason that their reply is so terse, is because it is merely acting as a confirmation of receipt (as someone else said above) and they will be consulting their insurer (they will almost certainly be covered for malpractice) and a lawyer.

Wording is weird when the lawyers get hold of it - I was involved in a car accident a few years back which was ruled as a 50/50 thing but the other side tried to make out I was liable because the first thing I had said when I got out of my car is "Are you alright?". Apparently, I was concerned about her welfare as I knew it was all my fault!!! And there was me thinking I was just being a human being!!!

I think you *should* sue them (Citizens Advice can give great advice on this!) as this can often be the only way to make them shine a light on bad practice and make changes. A friend of mine did it with the NHS when they killed her newborn with a wrong drug dose. Change happens quicker when someone is being hit in the pocket!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Chiantina said:


> "Sorry" can be seen as an admission of liability in legal terms because it implies they have something to be sorry for (which in this case, they blinking well have!!). That is why they won't have said it and I personally believe that the reason that their reply is so terse, is because it is merely acting as a confirmation of receipt (as someone else said above) and they will be consulting their insurer (they will almost certainly be covered for malpractice) and a lawyer.
> 
> Wording is weird when the lawyers get hold of it - I was involved in a car accident a few years back which was ruled as a 50/50 thing but the other side tried to make out I was liable because the first thing I had said when I got out of my car is "Are you alright?". Apparently, I was concerned about her welfare as I knew it was all my fault!!! And there was me thinking I was just being a human being!!!
> 
> I think you *should* sue them (Citizens Advice can give great advice on this!) as this can often be the only way to make them shine a light on bad practice and make changes. A friend of mine did it with the NHS when they killed her newborn with a wrong drug dose. Change happens quicker when someone is being hit in the pocket!


Omg how awful thats just terrible.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I didn't mean to imply that it's all about the money but, let's face it, having to pay the full whack for a very poor service is a whole lot worse than not having to. And unfortunately sometimes poor service when it comes to veterinary treatment means loss and/or suffering that simply shouldn't have happened.

I'm glad to read your girl is on the mend. I did think that wound/the stitches looked an absolute mess.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

*


gskinner123 said:



I didn't mean to imply that it's all about the money

Click to expand...

*


gskinner123 said:


> but, let's face it, having to pay the full whack for a very poor service is a whole lot worse than not having to. And unfortunately sometimes poor service when it comes to veterinary treatment means loss and/or suffering that simply shouldn't have happened.
> 
> I'm glad to read your girl is on the mend. I did think that wound/the stitches looked an absolute mess.


Oh no Gskinner,it didnt come across that way at all and yes if they were to part refund me it would be a bouns which i am not expecting.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Chiantina said:


> I think you *should* sue them (Citizens Advice can give great advice on this!) as this can often be the only way to make them shine a light on bad practice and make changes. A friend of mine did it with the NHS when they killed her newborn with a wrong drug dose. Change happens quicker when someone is being hit in the pocket!


I'm not sure what you would sue for. I wholeheartedly agree that the practice, from the op's description of them, sounded most unhelpful; the wound was bruised and a bit messy and the suture work looked a bit incompetent. But there is nothing to stop them saying that the queen could have opened the wound slightly as a result of nibbling/over grooming the wound and kittens, particularly c-section kittens, are vulnerable and do, sadly, sometimes not survive.

I really am in complete sympathy with the op and I most likely wouldn't use the practice in future. I do wonder though if the most they will offer will be a refund or partial refund of some sort.. but in my own, personal, experience that hasn't happened due, most likely I would think, to the fact that I never suffered any financial loss... at least not one that could be absolutely attributed to the treatment/care my cat received.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I'm not sure what you would sue for. I wholeheartedly agree that the practice, from the op's description of them, sounded most unhelpful; the wound was bruised and a bit messy and the suture work looked a bit incompetent. But there is nothing to stop them saying that the queen could have opened the wound slightly as a result of nibbling/over grooming the wound and kittens, particularly c-section kittens, are vulnerable and do, sadly, sometimes not survive.
> 
> I really am in complete sympathy with the op and I most likely wouldn't use the practice in future. I do wonder though if the most they will offer will be a refund or partial refund of some sort.. but in my own, personal, experience that hasn't happened due, most likely I would think, to the fact that I never suffered any financial loss... at least not one that could be absolutely attributed to the treatment/care my cat received.


Would you class the loss of the kitten a financial loss?

They had better not try and say the mum/kittens did it, that pic was taken same day mum was groggy and kittens were not up to much at that point.I couldnt prove this though although my camera does have the date etc.


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## CoCoTrio (Jan 3, 2013)

I do think a refund of fees would be appropriate. If the bill hasn't yet been settled, I'd be withholding it. Regardless of any financial loss if the treatment was unsatisfactory, it shouldn't be paid for. I reckon.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I think the vet will say the sad loss of a kitten happens and it was alive and well when taken from their care.

Just be ready for any excuses they come out with and i hope they will refund you for the cost of the c-section, after all you are a very good client. xxx


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Would you class the loss of the kitten a financial loss?


Putting all the emotion to one side for a moment, yes, to me the loss of a kitten always equates financial loss. The law in all its intricacy is far, far from my strong point but I imagine the difficulty would lie in proving that the kitten was lost as a direct result of something the vet did or didn't do. There are so many variables and kitten mortality, even with a queen having the perfect textbook delivery at home, is relatively high.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> I think the vet will say the sad loss of a kitten happens and it was alive and well when taken from their care.
> 
> Just be ready for any excuses they come out with and i hope they will refund you for the cost of the c-section, after all you are a very good client. xxx


Well time will tell,imagine how may litters of kittens wont be going their way for vaccinations.Thats a lot of money.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> Just recieved this email;
> 
> Ms Gibson,
> 
> ...


Sorry, because of libel issues I have had to remove the name of your vets. I do however agree that it isn't a very satisfactory response. All they are saying, more is less, we've got your email.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> Sorry, because of libel issues I have had to remove the name of your vets. I do however agree that it isn't a very satisfactory response. All they are saying, more is less, we've got your email.


Wasnt thinking lyn sorry.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I'm not sure what you would sue for. I wholeheartedly agree that the practice, from the op's description of them, sounded most unhelpful; the wound was bruised and a bit messy and the suture work looked a bit incompetent. But there is nothing to stop them saying that the queen could have opened the wound slightly as a result of nibbling/over grooming the wound and kittens, particularly c-section kittens, are vulnerable and do, sadly, sometimes not survive.


Having seen the pictures, I have to disagree.
It is obvious the sutures were too loose and too far apart, and she should not have been left in a position to nibble at them overnight.

Moreover, it being Peaches' first litter, they should have paid proper attention if she knew how to care for the kittens and if they were suckling.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Jiskefet said:


> Having seen the pictures, I have to disagree.
> It is obvious the sutures were too loose and too far apart, and she should not have been left in a position to nibble at them overnight.
> 
> Moreover, it being Peaches' first litter, they should have paid proper attention if she knew how to care for the kittens and if they were suckling.


I agree, as I think I said before, that from the photos the wound and sutures didn't look like the best job in the world. I'm not defending the vet at all but was just answering the point about suing. The girl doesn't appear, from what the op has said, to have suffered complications as a result of the section.

I know my own vet and his staff would do their utmost to ensure that everything was as it should be with regard to kittens delivered by section. However, kittens delivered that way are often drowsy and won't feed for many hours. I've never been in a situation where one of my girls has been kept in all night for collection the following day after a section; my vet would call me to collect her and the kittens when she was sufficiently 'awake' whatever time of night/day.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Which beautifully illustrates the point that she and the kittens needed very focused input to get them up and running. If one kitten in particular looks pretty weak after a section, I don't allow it to rest and remain drousy, because, IMO, that's how you lose them. So far, it's worked for me, and might well have done with this little one.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

carly87 said:


> Which beautifully illustrates the point that she and the kittens needed very focused input to get them up and running. If one kitten in particular looks pretty weak after a section, I don't allow it to rest and remain drousy, because, IMO, that's how you lose them. So far, it's worked for me, and might well have done with this little one.


Just to be absolutely clear again - I'm not defending the vet. I just want the op to have a realistic expectation of how the practice might respond.

As I mentioned, I've never been in a situation where queen and kittens were kept overnight for collection the following day. I'm certainly not saying that more intensive care (if it wasn't actually given; we don't know) for the weak kitten shouldn't have been provided but bear in mind many hours of intensive care, overnight, would have added an enormous amount to the bill - sometimes, vets are between a rock and a hard place. Before anyone jumps on me and says that's not point - I know it isn't. If they hadn't the time or the gumption to do that then the op should have been contacted.

The queen had a very delayed/interrupted labour and didn't undergo a section until many hours after the oxytocin was administered. It's an extremely difficult call for both owner and vet but clearly, oxytocin that hasn't produced the desired effect after half an hour, isn't going to work at all and I can't understand why the vet's advice wasn't to retain the girl at the surgery to see if the oxytocin would work. Remember too that the girl was found to have a ruptured uterus which is something that won't have helped with 100% success for the kittens.

My experience of very weak kittens has been, I would roughly estimate, a 50% success rate, but lower with sectioned kittens after a very delayed labour. And that's despite my vet rigging up a mini oxygen tent for two weak newborns; very intensive care for a couple of hours at the vets and my continued care at home with all the paraphernalia you could muster, including tube feeding.

I am not defending the vet. I think you just have to be realistic with regard to what their explanation might be. Occasionally, they do hold their hands up... but not that often.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Sending the girl home as soon as oxytocin is administered seems to have happened in every case I know of, and I suspect this is partly because the queen is more likely to relax and allow delivery at home in familiar surroundings.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Oh, absolutely. I didn't mean to suggest that you were defending the vet, not at all. Just voicing my anger really that this little one *might* have been needlessly loss.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

There was a 2 hour gap between oxytocin and the section this is cause i started to see the sac,it burst but then nothing i believe either she didnt have the energy of it was stuck.She was then takien for the section,vet said she may not need a section but they would need to examin her i said look can you just do the section straight off as this has been long enough and my girl is wore out.They did.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

OrientalSlave said:


> Sending the girl home as soon as oxytocin is administered seems to have happened in every case I know of, and I suspect this is partly because the queen is more likely to relax and allow delivery at home in familiar surroundings.


I have done that in the distant past, more, I must admit, at my own insistence because I wanted the girl to deliver at home rather than at the vets. It's worked both ways for me - a very short drive home and we've found that the oxytocin did the the trick.. other occasions I've waited an hour with nothing happening and we're back in the car again.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> There was a 2 hour gap between oxytocin and the section this is cause i started to see the sac,it burst but then nothing i believe either she didnt have the energy of it was stuck.She was then takien for the section,vet said she may not need a section but they would need to examin her i said look can you just do the section straight off as this has been long enough and my girl is wore out.They did.


Really not questioning your decisions at all - I'd have done nothing differently were it one of my own girls. I think the only difference would have been my vet arguing (gently!) that I shouldn't take her home after the oxytocin. Naturally, there's a difference of opinion and different experiences of this mentioned here.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Just to add the oxytocin was given at a different practice 5 minute drive from me not my usual vets.But closest so less stress for mum,yes they sent me home they then closed i was last person there of the day.

Things just wernt happerning so i called my out of hour vet (at my usual practice) 20 min drive away.This is where the op took place.


Im just happy my girl is ok now its just a shame she had a vet who wasnt good in this area or work to do the section,but who was to know this was the case beforehand.

Anyway its been good to hear all your opinions and experiences so thankyou again to you all.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Had a 3 page letter back from vets would take too long to write it all out its littered with book passing they accept no wrong doings and mostly talk of things not related to my concern one example is how my breeders discount on vaccinations will now be stopped  ...like im going to use them now anyway :dita:

So here is what they wrote about the wound;

Regarding the surgical wound,the practice was aware that it had gaped towards the top end and rather than put peaches through another anaesthetic after such major surgery,tissue glue was applied.If you had not declined to talk to our head nurse at discharge,as you had a taxi waiting,this would have been explained to you (true they made me wait 30 bloody mins in the waiting room knowing my taxi was waiting my bill was getting huge..another passing the book right here).

The fact that the skin sutures appeared 'loose' to you is down to several factors.Firstly it is very important to get mum around from anaesthetic as soon as possible to ensure the kittens suckle,secondly given the major nature of the surgery peaches had,speed is of the essence,and the wound may well look as neat as would in routine surgery (bull),and thirdly you do not want to tie the skin sutures tight due to possible subseguent swelling of the mammary glands which might make it uncomfortable for mum to allow kittens to suckle (I could have got a pen under then,not tight enough for sure)



They also said if I had concerns I should have rung hmm I did that and I told them that in the letter so again another lie,dizzy receptionist told me it was normal to drip blood for 8 weeks..wtf 



Well I have not contacted them to tell them how peed off I am about their crappy bulls*iting letter and I don't think I will cause its more stress than its worth and I get soo wound up about it all but I can say on my life I will never ever use them again


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

If they knew you were in a hurry they should have had a letter ready explaining everything to you so you were aware!

I had a vet once pass the buck on the fact my boy was starved of oxygen when under for an X-ray to a fractured femeral head so totally sympathize with how your feeling!

How is peaches healing now? Xxx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Tamiyamumma said:


> If they knew you were in a hurry they should have had a letter ready explaining everything to you so you were aware!
> 
> I had a vet once pass the buck on the fact my boy was starved of oxygen when under for an X-ray to a fractured femeral head so totally sympathize with how your feeling!
> 
> How is peaches healing now? Xxx


Really that terrible.

Peaches is fine now she has hard scar tissue from the hole so wen you touch it you can feel how big the hole was its horrible and goes through me but it has completely healed.

They knew she would be suckling kittens kittens which have a right scrap at the milk bar there is claws scraping at the would why did they think glue would be a suitable option I don't know, terrible, I had to cover the hole with plaster every day so they wouldn't claw at the wound.


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## Cats cats cats (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm so sorry you got such an extremely poor response WLBSHS  I have nothing helpful to add really, I just wanted to let you know that I sympathise xx


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Really that terrible.
> 
> Peaches is fine now she has hard scar tissue from the hole so wen you touch it you can feel how big the hole was its horrible and goes through me but it has completely healed.
> 
> They knew she would be suckling kittens kittens which have a right scrap at the milk bar there is claws scraping at the would why did they think glue would be a suitable option I don't know, terrible, I had to cover the hole with plaster every day so they wouldn't claw at the wound.


Is there any higher authority that you could go to?

I have no experience of c section but could they not have done it on her side so the milk bar is open all hours? Xxx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Tamiyamumma said:


> Is there any higher authority that you could go to?
> 
> I have no experience of c section but could they not have done it on her side so the milk bar is open all hours? Xxx


Yeah I could take it further but this vets are all up each others ar*ses they will just twist it around some how.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Tamiyamumma said:


> I have no experience of c section but could they not have done it on her side so the milk bar is open all hours? Xxx


I don't think they can, every one I've seen is midline. the girls just aren't left in the condition that dear Peaches was.

Sorry you didn't get a better answer from your letter WLBSH, just a lot more excuses.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I would report them, if there is any authority you can report them TO


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