# Need help with Insecure/Dominant dog



## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi, 
I've had a dog for 2 and a half years now (he was about 4 - 5 months old when i picked him up from the kennel).
I didnt know anything about how to be a good owner but still i picked the dog up. The way he was being treated wasn't good.
Meanwhile, i've also been through some drug and anger management problems, which are now being followed by a professional, but I ended up with some bruises of my drug abuse, having become a very anxious and nervous person.
I didn't have patience, I was nervous and very angry at that time, which considering the fact that I'm 20 years old now, isn't something anyone would love to know.
The reason why I'm sharing this is because I know that this kind of behaviour from me, had me make the wrong choices on how i raised my puppy.
It is with sincere shame and sadness that I tell you, I've hit this dog several times. Not that the dog didn't do anything wrong, I just over reacted.
That made him grow as a very insecure type of dog, and paired with the lack of leadership I also provided, ended up with the Insecure/dominant type.
He is an English pointer/Pitbull mix weighting about 20kg.
I've changed since then. I decided to make a change on both my life and my dog's life. He is dangerous I must say, but it's my fault. He is agressive to other dogs (Red zone agressive), food agressive, has a huge prey drive, has bitten me a lot of times (i mean serious bites), and has also redirected his agression towards other dogs to myself.
I decided that this had been going on for too long and then decided to do my best to finaly make me and my dog feel happy with each other.
I started taking him out for exercise/obedience, by finding a walled place where no outsiders can enter (because I was afraid he might see another dog or cat or person, and run away to bite), and I make the following game:
-"Lay Down and Stay!" -» I throw the ball while the dog must Stay until I command him to "Go get it boy!" -» after he gets it I use "Here!" to make him come and then "Drop and Sit". And i repeat it for 30-40 minutes, until he seems tired, usually twice a day, one by the morning and another before dinner, while taking him out to piss and poop several times during the day aswell.
Then we go back home and I feed him holding his bowl, so that he doesn't get possessive over his food, making him Sit and wait for the food before tho.
After some bites I also became a bit afraid, but I know it's my fault.
He is afraid of me most of the time, I call him and he comes with his tail between his legs and that nervous look. I've tried contacting several trainers but they are all expensive and since I'm even unemployed, its impossible for me to pay for training at this time.
Im about to go back to my mom's house, who has 2 cats.
We really need help. I dont know what to do anymore, and I know all of you are sitting there thinking "What a dumbass kid", and I can take it cause I know im guilty, but overall, I need help. Since I cant afford training I went everyday online looking for information on body language, energy, leadership, dog behaviour in general and I became instructed in some way. I feel it's not enough because I dont have the past experience of handling this type of dog. Telling the real story has often made people dont want to help me, and instead point me the finger. I live with a female housemate, and she has been bitten aswell. She is the type of person who thinks dogs are stuffed animals you should hug and make squishy sound at. I tell her not to do that to this kind of dog, to no avail. That did make the situation even worse, and now if the dog gets on the couch at night (he often switches his bed for our couch when he knows we are not there to see) and the lady approaches, he leap at her while bitting.
I came to the conclusion that this is the worst behaviour combo you can deal with, the Insecure/Dominant type. The hardest to rehabilitate and the most dangerous.
I love him, from the bottom of my heart, and I want to make him a balanced and healthy dog. I want to be his friend, but I also want to be his leader and know that he looks at me when I call him and that he obeys house rules and such.
So if you can point me some directions on what to do, like whats the best approach for this type of behaviour, I would thank you. I've become very frustrated with this situation, and I think everyday that I might have to give this dog to a farm, and it makes me cry, because I really like him. As you can see, I know practice Exercise and Discipline with my dog. Then before I sleep I want to pet him and give him some affection after the hard working day. Now he is also agressive to me when I approach him in his bed... I dont know the best way to deal with agression, even in the human world. I've seen Cesar Millan getting closer to food agressive dogs with a tennis racket, but I think my dog will think im about to hit him if I do it.
Again, i'm sorry for having been a bad owner, and most of all for the times I've hit my dog. Where I live, people are taught to beat a misbehaving dog, and i've always disagreed with that. Then i've done it without even realizing how bad it is. I think about it everynight before I (try to) sleep. My psychyastrist (sorry for my english ) told me that I shouldn't feel anymore sad for recognizing ive done something very wrong, as long as I keep in mind that I will change, because thats the best you can do. So I now think like this "I've done it the worse way, created this beast. Now I shall do the opposite and take him out of this situation. Make him feel secure and happy."
Please, say something.
Thanks


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

First of all, you need to realise that this dog is not going to trust you overnight, if ever. Your housemate has a better idea of how to gain his trust than you do, that is for certain. Why can't he get on the sofa? You should be giving him treats, you should letting the dog come to you in his own good time, which could take forever.

It is not good trying to do heavy training with him until he trusts you which as I said could take a very long time. You should read this thread

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/88630-dog-body-language-why-matters-so-much.html

It is very long, but needs reading. Gaining this dog's trust may never happen and I would be saying rehome him were it not such a difficult thing to do.

You seem to have got the right idea about the food aggression, certainly keep this going.

Are you in the UK? If so, you should remove the part that says he is part pitbull, please.


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## totallypets (Dec 30, 2011)

Will he come willingly to you if you sit on the floor and speak in an gentle happy voice for treats? 

Some dogs are just anxious and your past behavior wont have helped but you are trying to turn that round - all credit to you. I don't think that the biting means he is dominant, just scared and trying to stop something that he thinks will hurt him even when it wont. 

Exercise is good, but trying to gain his trust by speaking kindly to him and only moving forward at a pace that he feels comfortable with is key IMO.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

totallypets said:


> Will he come willingly to you if you sit on the floor and speak in an gentle happy voice for treats?
> 
> Some dogs are just anxious and your past behavior wont have helped but you are trying to turn that round - all credit to you. I don't think that the biting means he is dominant, just scared and trying to stop something that he thinks will hurt him even when it wont.
> 
> Exercise is good, but trying to gain his trust by speaking kindly to him and only moving forward at a pace that he feels comfortable with is key IMO.


I agree. And OP I forgot to say: his aggression does not mean he is dominant, that is a myth. He is in fact scared, which is what usually makes dogs aggressive. Poor thing is scared of people and other dogs with is a very unusual combination. God knows what he has been through. Taken from a bad home as a puppy and given to an even worse one. You have a lot of making up to do.


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

I know that Cesar Millan and other people talk about insecure/dominant dogs, but I just can't get it together. A dog simply can't be insecure and dominant at the same time. 

Your dog is clearly insecure and scared of you. To be honest, I'm not sure you can earn that trust back (certainly not by listening to anything Cesar Millan says). 

To be honest, I'm not sure that you'll ever be able to earn his trust again. I'm thinking that it might be better for both of you if he got a new home. It's easier for a dog to start over and trust a person that hasn't already broken that trust. And I think it would be better for you, too. You could concentrate on getting your life together, without constantly being reminded of what has been. 

But of course this dog can't be rehomed to just anyone, so it probably wouldn't be easy to find him a new home. 

If you absolutely want to try to gain his trust I think that you need to let go of all the rules you seem to have. Play with him, but don't make him sit/lay/stand before he can chase after the ball. Praise him a lot when he brings the ball back and don't make him sit when dropping the ball off. Don't make him sit before dinner. You can hold the bowl if you want, but I think you're more likely to gain his trust more if you drop something really tasty in his bowl while his eating. That way he doesn't see you as a threat, but as a resource. You don't have to allow him on the sofa, but cuddling is necessary. But you shouldn't approach his bed, but instead call him to you.


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## totallypets (Dec 30, 2011)

That's right, his bed is his safe place, you should leave him alone when he is there and if you want to interact with him get him to come to you. 

You can get him to sit etc when he brings you the ball but always praise him, tell him what a good boy he is, make it a positive thing to bring the ball back. Don't ask him to sit in a harsh voice, but instead in a gentle voice.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear you've had a rough time, it must have been very hard to admit that you've treated your dog so badly and it's ended up like this so while we could all go on about how your behaviour has been shocking that's not what you need now you've come to this realisation, and I think you should feel proud of that fact you have admitted your mistakes and are trying to move on in a positive way.

Now that's out the way a few things that come to mind:

1. Please forget everything you've heard about 'dominance' and anything you'v seen by an awful non-dog trainer on TV who is mightily popular, this kind of thinking is not just wrong it is not helpful for you in your situation. I can understand why you could make this mistake considering how widespread certain beliefs are.

2. You need to regain your dogs trust, and I'm not sure I agree that you will never be able to get it back like many other people have said. You can atleast try your best if you're so motivated to try and make up for your past behaviour. I would start by giving treats for good behaviour, for coming to you, and not to push him too hard so he feels aggressive or nervous. I note you're unemployed so don't have much money,y you can give scraps of whatever is left over as treats, little bits of ham, cheap squeezy cheese, tiny cubes of cheese, chopped up cheap hotdogs (the type that come in a tin for 50p or so). 

3. Try to let him come to you, don't force it, he has to come in his own time. 

4. Vitally important is that you keep your own emotions in check around him. Dogs are very intuitive, you're angry for whatever reason he will fret and be scared, same goes for you being frustrated with him. Try to keep as positive, upbeat and gentle as possible so he can feel more at ease around you and interacting with you.

5. I think lighten up on the training, if he wants to snuggle you on the sofa this is good. I would personally allow it. 

I probably have more to say but my mind has gone blank.


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## BabyBlu (Nov 8, 2012)

What a fabulous answer Phoolf.
I agree with all of that, not that im an expert but I love the sentiment.
Personally my experience of dogs is that they are very forgiving. Humans can be s**ts and they will still love you. CMs dogs probably still love him.
Most impoertant with any animal is to let him/her come to you. Kneel down sideways and avert your eyes and let him come up to you and take a treat from you..
I think its the wonderful nature of the whole world that all beings want to be loved and treated with respect.
It chokes me up when you see those whales in Japan swimming alongside fishing boats, letting tourists touch and stroke them when for the last decade man has hunted and speared them, yet they still forgive. And with brains as big as ours im sure the fear of man and what happened has been passed down.
Everyone deserves a new start. You AND your dog.

Be big enough to know in your heart if it is not working though, and to let him have a new home 
:001_wub:


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## BabyBlu (Nov 8, 2012)

last decade.... I meant last 100 years!


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi again,
Thanks for your answers. 
First of all, I just watched the dog whisperer on the TV like I would watch any other show. I dont do what he does.
About rehoming, I know it would be easier for him. Truth is, nobody wants a dog like this, and to be honest, by giving him away I would have failed miserably to my own nature, by creating all this and then just giving up.
I want to do whatever I can. I think you might not have undersood how things are, maybe you are imagining a dog that cant be touched or approached.
He does not trust me that is true, but he comes to me when i call him, he answers to commands that I taught him myself. He will also come to me happily if I kneel or sit down for treats. I don't think he gave up on me. He used to go to the couch, but then started becoming very possessive about it, so i created that rule. He has bitten my gf on the couch, also my housemate.
Im not in the UK, i know some dogs are forbidden there, but I dont think he is like this in any form because of his breed. I didnt even know he was a pitbull when i picked him up, because he is not pure and looks more like a pointer than an actual pitbull.. 
Im afraid of cuddling with him in the couch, otherwise I would. I want to. im afraid he will bite me for some reason. He tends to snap really fast, for instance, Ive seen dogs bearing their teeth but they let you take your hand away. Mine bites when you take the hand away. How can a dog be insecure and dominant? insecure for being manhandled, dominant for lack of leadership. I mean he is dominant because he shows a lot ofsigns I did interpret as dominance, like pawing a lot, tries to mount other male dogs and if they move he attacks, puts his head above other dogs' neck etc.
I really appreciate the fact that someone here can give me a straight answer, and I hope the help doesnt end here. Regaining my dogs trust i think is the way to go, and I dont think it is impossible or even near, Im just afraid that by "spoiling" i will nurtur bad behaviour. 
One thing I sometimes do, is letting him sleep in bed with me, he stretches from top to bottom of the bed lol then I kinda sleep with an arm above, affectionately. About the training, its more of a game really, to tire him up. I did Stay before throwing the ball because I thought it would be a first step on controling himself on chasing something. I reward him with a big bowl of food after all that and I feel it has been helping a lot. He eats then sleeps right away. Thing is that this dog doesnt seem to tire up, his energy level is very high.
Ok i know this is a very sensitive matter, but rehoming will be the last thing I will try. I will at least make up for my mistakes.
Now as I said in my previous post, I know what I did and I understand your anger at me, but I wouldnt be here saying my story honestly if I couldnt take some criticism for what happened. Ive had other dogs in my life, they were all good behaving dogs, I just made the wrong decisions with this one. It was me under the influence of drugs and other things, not who I am now. This is a completely different person. So if you can ease up on me, at least when it comes to words of disencouragement.
now some questions:
Why shouldnt I make him sit before food? I do it to snap his mind out of excitement because ive read you shouldnt feed an excited dog who is food agresive.
Why not Drop and Sit? I started doing that because he catches the ball, comes to me, I was saying Drop and he just lays down destroying the ball with his mouth, instead of giving it, so it was like "No, dont lay down, just sit and drop it."
By the way, I always praise my dog a lot when he brings the ball, then when he drops it its even a bigger party out here.
Also, if I'm to let him come to the couch again, how do I know his intention when wanting to get up on it? I mean he knows he cant be there, will he be afraid then and attack?
thanks again


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Most people want their dog to sit before food, and that is fine, if that is what he knows, don't try to change it. I think we were under the impression it was a big thing and it shouldn't be. It is possible that when you move your hand away it is a sudden movement which scares him, which is why he bites. It needs to be done very slowly, perhaps talking to him first so he is not startled.

Just forget any ideas of dominance. He may try to hump other dogs out of anxiety, especially if he has been neutered. My dog has done that in the past out of anxiety when his mate died.

If he comes to you happily, and not looking afraid with his tail between his legs, I would say things are not as bad as you at first portrayed. He does sound though as though he is scared of quick movements, so that is something you need to be careful about.

I am glad you are not in the UK. Pitbulls, or part pitbulls, are banned in this country and it is not something you want to advertise. Most on here do not agree with that ban, nor the banning of any breed, but that is governments for you.

I would like to wish you lots of luck with your dog, and I am sure you will find lots of advice on here. Please stop watching the Dog Whisperer!


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## Rottsmum (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi OP. Your dogs doesn't sound remotely dominant to me, he sounds fear aggressive, under socialised and lacking in boundaries & structure - which would lead to the insecurity part. 

I think that with time and patience you can get your dog's trust again and I agree with the others that Mr Millan is not the person that you should be watching at this time. I don't hate him as much as the majority of people do on here but I don't think his methods are suitable for either your dog or yourself in your current situation.

There is massive pressure on dog owners nowadays to be the best trainer and have "the perfect dog", obedient to a fault and brilliant with everyone and everything that they meet and unfortunately reality just isn't like that.

From your posts I would say that you need to get to know your dog more as a character, learn what motivates him and make him tick. Is he food or toy motivated? Does he like to play? Does he like to swim, or sleep, or cuddle? Observe him, find his buttons and use them to bond with him. Clicker training would be a great way to start, not just using it to teach commands, but clicking and rewarding ANY behaviour that you like.

He'll soon get the idea that (for example) calmness is rewarded, coming to you is rewarded, etc.

Walk with him, onlead, morning and evening when it's quiet if you're concerened about other dogs being about. It's a great way to bond with him and teach him to pay attention to you. Call him every so often and when he looks at you, reward him. You need to work on you and him and his trust in your capability to deal with situations before you even start working on anything else. 

Google NILIF and use it to give him some boundaries in a non confrontational way. If he gets possesive over the couch as you say in your post, don't let him on it, physically block it with other furniture if need be. Most of all, be PATIENT, be CONSISTENT and REWARD the good behaviour as opposed to punishing the bad.

Don't put him in situations that could push him over his stress threshold with new people/dogs etc, give him a room/crate/place to go to where he feels safe and will not be disturbed. A couple of excellent books for you to read are Click to Calm by Karen Pryor and B.A.T - Behaviour Adjustment Training by Grisha Stuart.

Lastly remember, he is responding the way he is because of what he has been taught by use of confrontation and force. He was left no choice because aggression begets aggression. With time and patience however the behaviours can be modified and re-learned. Please keep us posted on your progress.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

@ newfiesmum Thanks for your reply! Well by knowing this dog the much I do, I notice that he reacts agressively especially when hes in that excited state of mind, so I have him sit before food just to snap him out of that. I feel like that myself, if Im calm i think better about things and make better choices in the future. This case is not easy to handle, but it's not the end of the world either.
It's not the kind of dog that wants to kill you or anything like that. He reacts agressively towards certain situations.
I notice he gets stressed when people talk a lot to him, put his hands on him. I have the opinion that if the dog isnt yours, you shouldnt be approaching it like if its your son, or even more than that, but I also would like my dog to not be afraid of hands, especially mine.
I will start today a treat routine with him, by this I mean I will in all possible cases carry treats on me, and each time he does something I like, I give it to him.
About food agression, I've tried approaching him with treats while hes eating. He can do one of 2 things: not notice Im carrying a treat so I'm a threat or stops eating his food because what I have is better, then eat my treat, then he gets insecure again and starts protecting his food. Should I continue doing this or am I instigating unwanted behaviour?

@Daneandrottiemum
Thank you for your patience dear friend. Ive read about NILIF in the past and liked what i've seen.
I think this dog doesn't like cuddling, or that kind of voices that people make to babies and children. He is both food and toy motivated and I've never seen a dog look at a ball the same way as to a treat except for this one hahaha
I dont have a clicker, but I do a lot of finger clapping (or whatever its called) to call for his atention and he is used to that, so a clicker could be easily introduced.
The day I posted I had been bitten by him because I gave him a treat, then a second one which fell on the ground and I was about to catch it and give it to him but instead I got bitten when I was reaching it. That made me scared because each bite he delivers causes me extreme pain for days and also infected wounds. He is a strong boy for a 20kg. I look at him and I see a dog with lots of capabilities, who runs so fast and is so strong for his size... If I could speak to this dog for a minute I would tell him "I know everything that happened, and I know I got you used to something, but I want you to trust me from now on that I will be my best for you", unfortunately as someone said earlier, that doesnt happen overnight.
About the couch, what usually happens in that kind of situations is: He gives me a sign that he wants to be in the couch (or I call him up the couch) he gets really happy about that, then gets on the couch looking like he is playful. I try making him lay down next to me and pet him so he falls asleep, but when i notice, my hand is near his mouth and he is bearing his teeth.
He is not neutered. Also , when he shows his teeth, i've tried talking calmly, but i think it made him worse because he might have picked up some fear from me. I've tried taking my hand slowly and it seems like he thinks its that thing they do before chasing prey, the walking slowly part.

Another question, what are good ways to socialize my dog with other dogs having the means I have? I know some people with dogs that are willing to bring their dogs to cope. Letting mine go to others on the leash is in most cases leading to agression. Im not pulling the leash or anything, I let him do his thing and thats his thing.
About the dog whisperer, and to finish this matter (lol) I've watched that show a couple of times and it actually woke me up to the fact the a dog needs to be balanced is many ways. I dont do his thing on my dog. All i take from that show is body language and how to walk on the leash. About walking, I try to make him walk behind me, but he always wants to get ahead of me. When I'm about to pass by another dog and his owner, I think I sshould be the one in front, but to be like that i wether have to stop and correct him for pulling me (giving ground to trigger staredowns which always triggers agression in him) or continue walking, but this way i have to keep correcting him until i reach the other dog. Being corrected he gets tense and doesnt look at anything except the other dog, and that is what usually ends up in redirecting agression towards me. How should i be doing this?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

barbazul said:


> @ newfiesmum Thanks for your reply! Well by knowing this dog the much I do, I notice that he reacts agressively especially when hes in that excited state of mind, so I have him sit before food just to snap him out of that. I feel like that myself, if Im calm i think better about things and make better choices in the future. This case is not easy to handle, but it's not the end of the world either.
> It's not the kind of dog that wants to kill you or anything like that. He reacts agressively towards certain situations.
> I notice he gets stressed when people talk a lot to him, put his hands on him. I have the opinion that if the dog isnt yours, you shouldnt be approaching it like if its your son, or even more than that, but I also would like my dog to not be afraid of hands, especially mine.
> I will start today a treat routine with him, by this I mean I will in all possible cases carry treats on me, and each time he does something I like, I give it to him.
> About food agression, I've tried approaching him with treats while hes eating. He can do one of 2 things: not notice Im carrying a treat so I'm a threat or stops eating his food because what I have is better, then eat my treat, then he gets insecure again and starts protecting his food. Should I continue doing this or am I instigating unwanted behaviour?


There are three ways to handle this in my own opinion. You can put down an empty bowl and keep adding food to it in small handfuls, or you can feed him from your hand.

Or, if he doesn't like anyone near his food, leave him alone and don't go near him while he is eating. The last will not work if you ever have children about who might forget.

I wouldn't use treats in the food, as that will detract him from his actual dinner.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

barbazul said:


> About the dog whisperer, and to finish this matter (lol) I've watched that show a couple of times and it actually woke me up to the fact the a dog needs to be balanced is many ways. I dont do his thing on my dog. All i take from that show is body language and how to walk on the leash. About walking, I try to make him walk behind me, but he always wants to get ahead of me. When I'm about to pass by another dog and his owner, I think I sshould be the one in front, but to be like that i wether have to stop and correct him for pulling me (giving ground to trigger staredowns which always triggers agression in him) or continue walking, but this way i have to keep correcting him until i reach the other dog. Being corrected he gets tense and doesnt look at anything except the other dog, and that is what usually ends up in redirecting agression towards me. How should i be doing this?


hopefully someone more experienced than me will give you a fuller answer on this but it sounds to me like you are accidently reinforcing his dislike of approaching the other dog by giving him corrections while he's staring at the other dog - he will assume it is the other dog causing this and quite possibly mis-interpret you as not wanting the other dog any nearer.

I would simply not pass by other dogs at this time - I would stop my dog at a distance where he is not reacting and get and keep his focus on me and what I'm doing while the other dog owner does the passing. Don't make him do anything he's not ready to do or you are just setting him up to fail, and remember that when a dog is kicking off it's usually too late to try any distraction techniques, you have to get the focus before they have a chance to get into the wrong mindset.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

speug said:


> hopefully someone more experienced than me will give you a fuller answer on this but *it sounds to me like you are accidently reinforcing his dislike of approaching the other dog by giving him corrections while he's staring at the other dog *- he will assume it is the other dog causing this and quite possibly mis-interpret you as not wanting the other dog any nearer.
> 
> I would simply not pass by other dogs at this time - I would stop my dog at a distance where he is not reacting and get and keep his focus on me and what I'm doing while the other dog owner does the passing. Don't make him do anything he's not ready to do or you are just setting him up to fail, and remember that when a dog is kicking off it's usually too late to try any distraction techniques, you have to get the focus before they have a chance to get into the wrong mindset.


Precisely this. Your dog will associate everything with what he sees at that moment. There is no reason why he should not walk in front, unless he is pulling. I personally like my dog to walk next to me, and I think that the person walking in front can be dangerous, as you cannot know that the dog is not stepping into the road.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

So you mean when I see another dog ahead coming my way, I get my dogs attention before he sees it and maintain his attention as the other dog passes by? That sounds hard but very logic.
The thing is I don' like dogs to walk ahead of me, makes me feel not in charge and I feel that if he walks ahead of me I dont have time to call its attention since his back is already turned to me. Also if hes ahead, the collar is always going down the neck. I dont mind him to walk next to me, the collar stays where it is supposed to be and hes not ahead of me. I use a leash thats about 1m-2m of rope but I dont give him all that space because he is easily distracted by scents on the walk. 
Also if any situation leads to my dog pulling the leash towards another dog (while barking and growling, he even jumps and stands on his back paws) what is the best way to call his attention and stop him? When I throw my hands in the place I usually get bitten with redirected agression, so i grab his lower back and use the leash to stop him from bitting me, until hes in place, then I release him from my hand (Still on the leash) until hes calm, then we go on.
Also on the food part, I usually hold the bowl, but adding small handfulls might also work on him. Problem is that i feel that that is just preventive, doesnt solve the problem. Ive met my love and want to have kids one day so I feel this should be solved instead of prevented. Like hes not gonna bite if I hold the bowl, but right after if I drop it and walk back then forward we have agression again. My cousins son put his hand on their Rottie's bowl and got bitten, even tho my cousin told numerous times "Dont pick on him while hes eating".

Another thing that has angered me in the past (meaning i dont get angry about that anymore, but still dont like ) about him is his constant whinning (I dont know how to call this, when they make that sound "weeeee weeeee weeeeeee"). Its like hes crying and happens when for instance, I go up the stairs and make him stay downstairs. CAn you enlighten me on this behaviour and how to correct it? Cuz he has had a high level of separation anxiety which i partialy healed with proper exercise. He is constantly pooping and pissing in the house, if I leave the house when I get back I got Mr. and Mrs. Brown waiting for me on the floor.~
Also I'm about to change to another house, as I said with my mom, who has 2 cats. Do you think this will help him forget about what hapened in the past? The rules in this house will mostly disappear because its a totaly diferent house. He chases cats, will this be a problem and how hard is it to correct? Im afraid he will go on the cats foods then bite them for some reason. He will end any cats life with a single bite. That makes me very nervous.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Yes you should get his attention until the dog has gone. Try and work on his sit and get a command for looking right at you too 'focus' or 'look at me' so he's paying attention to looking at you and not any distractions. Lots of praise and treats for when he's getting it right.

I can't really relate to your issue with not wanting your dog ahead of you because well..I don't get it, but have you thought about a good head collar instead so you have more control and he naturally walks at your side? This could be helpful instead of a collar and lead.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Oh and I'm really really happy about the fact that not only your guys are helping me, but also you want to know the progress of things, that means you want me to keep in touch, and even if its only for the dog, Im happy with that, because it makes you wonderful people, its hard to find someone in love with anything these days.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

What do you mean by Head Collar? I have this leash i mentioned and a choke chain, which I don't use to strangle, but because with a regular collar he just keeps pushing and pushing against the other dog. I use this chain on top of his neck with the ring right on top, being careful not to cause any harm or acidents.
EDIT: ok just googled it, ive seen those collars and never tried one. I also heard it's not good on agressive dogs? any thoughts on this?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

barbazul said:


> What do you mean by Head Collar? I have this leash i mentioned and a choke chain, which I don't use to strangle, but because with a regular collar he just keeps pushing and pushing against the other dog. I use this chain on top of his neck with the ring right on top, being careful not to cause any harm or acidents.


I would ditch the choke chain. It's totally unnecessary and it will not make him like you a jot. A head collar is a collar that not only goes round the neck but attaches just below the nose/chin which means you have full control of their head. I'm not a huge fan of them personally but it's much kinder than a choke chain and won't be causing him any damage. The idea comes from how you lead horses around which obviously needs to help you have full control considering how big and heavy they are:

It looks like this:


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

By the looks of it, it will close the dogs mouth when pulled, never noticed that. May I ask why your not a big fan of those? I might get one, but only when I know that its the best thing I can do!
Also it seems that with that collar, whenever he gets ahead of me he will automaticaly have his nose pulled up by himself, is that the point? Apart from looking like a muzzle it seems very humane and kind to have that collar.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

barbazul said:


> By the looks of it, it will close the dogs mouth when pulled, never noticed that. May I ask why your not a big fan of those? I might get one, but only when I know that its the best thing I can do!


Just personal preference for me, my dog is a bit head shy so I don't want to make it worse by putting something on her head. I put her in a harness and it's also quite easy to control her in one and it doesn't impair her walking in any way. You can get front clipping harnesses where the lead clips on the front of the chest so they also can't get too far ahead of you, might be worth considering which one you can prefer between harness and head collar to help control him more on walks. Mine is quite a large dog too (45kg) and while the harness doesn't give as much control as a head collar would so I still find it fairly easy to hold her back from lunging etc. and I'm only a small woman.  If you look hard you can see the harness on Kes in my signature picture, there is a clip on the front half way down her chest. 

Just seen your edit, yes the idea is that if they pull ahead it turns them back towards you so they will naturally learn to just walk by your side and not too far ahead of you at all. It's quite gentle and leads them rather than you have to pull etc


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

barbazul said:


> By the looks of it, it will close the dogs mouth when pulled, never noticed that. May I ask why your not a big fan of those? I might get one, but only when I know that its the best thing I can do!
> Also it seems that with that collar, whenever he gets ahead of me he will automaticaly have his nose pulled up by himself, is that the point? Apart from looking like a muzzle it seems very humane and kind to have that collar.


The best sort of headcollar is a dogmatic, but I am not sure how freely available they would be outside the UK. There is a marketplace seller on Amazon that does them. They are cushioned and fitted so they don't close the dog's mouth nor ride up. The idea is that if the dog cannot get his nose up, he cannot pull, but in my opinion they must be used with a double ended leash, one end attached to a normal collar, the other to the headcollar. That way you have full control and can just use the collar end when you don't need the extra control. One of my dogs is 80 kg, but he has learned to walk nicely next to me with this arrangement and so has my other dog, who is about 60 kg.

But they do not suit every dog. Nothing does so it has to be trial and error. The dogmatic though is the most comfortable and I have found the most effective.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

I've tried harnesses and it didn't work, because he wouldnt stop sniffing the ground, distracting him. I've seen dogs that are perfect for harnesses, like the one in your signature, its just not gonna work with this one. Also my friend has a 55kg cane corso who wears that exact same harness you use, but he doesnt pull and is not agressive. When an agression episode hapened while on the harness it was pratically impossible to make my dog stop lunging, so i left the harness behind. I think I might try a head collar, shouldnt be that expensive.
Another thing I feel that pushes things back is making experiences, I dont know why but I feel he picks up inconstistency on me. Thats why i'm so badly looking for someone who has dealt with this before.

By the way, Kes is a beautiful looking dog! and an 80kg dog is something I'm yet to see  must be huge!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

barbazul said:


> I've tried harnesses and it didn't work, because he wouldnt stop sniffing the ground, distracting him. I've seen dogs that are perfect for harnesses, like the one in your signature, its just not gonna work with this one. Also my friend has a 55kg cane corso who wears that exact same harness you use, but he doesnt pull and is not agressive. When an agression episode hapened while on the harness it was pratically impossible to make my dog stop lunging, so i left the harness behind. I think I might try a head collar, shouldnt be that expensive.
> Another thing I feel that pushes things back is making experiences, I dont know why but I feel he picks up inconstistency on me. Thats why i'm so badly looking for someone who has dealt with this before.
> 
> By the way, Kes is a beautiful looking dog! and an 80kg dog is something I'm yet to see  must be huge!


I think one of the most important things when dealing with problems is consistency, one thing to realise about dogs and training is that it's as much about training yourself as the dog you're dealing with. I would love to give in Kes a lot of the time when she wants something but I have to keep strong and not give in otherwise her behaviour will decline, she's part bull breed so is quite stubborn at times so without boundaries and consistency she would totally rule the roost and I wouldn't have a say in how she behaves. You need to sit and think about what you can realistically expect from your dog and yourself and what rules you can be sticking to, don't break them just sometimes or when you're feeling tired or upset, just like a kid needs boundaries to be well behaved so do our dogs. It's not cruel to them, it's just finding a balance that works. I recently had to stop Kes sleeping on my bed because she's just too big to fit, and she still tries to climb on every night and we go through a process of about 10 minute where I have to tell her to get down and go on her own bed, it's tiring and you feel like giving in but you have to for their sake so they get into a nice routine and know what is going on at home.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

barbazul said:


> I've tried harnesses and it didn't work, because he wouldnt stop sniffing the ground, distracting him. I've seen dogs that are perfect for harnesses, like the one in your signature, its just not gonna work with this one. Also my friend has a 55kg cane corso who wears that exact same harness you use, but he doesnt pull and is not agressive. When an agression episode hapened while on the harness it was pratically impossible to make my dog stop lunging, so i left the harness behind. I think I might try a head collar, shouldnt be that expensive.
> Another thing I feel that pushes things back is making experiences, I dont know why but I feel he picks up inconstistency on me. Thats why i'm so badly looking for someone who has dealt with this before.
> 
> By the way, Kes is a beautiful looking dog! and an 80kg dog is something I'm yet to see  must be huge!


Well, he is in my albums on my profile. He is about the size of a small shetland pony, but as soft as butter and very friendly. Harnesses are originally made for sniffer dogs and sled dogs, so they encourage pulling and sniffing. But you can get non-pull harnesses which are different.

You haven't said what sort of size your dog is; I am assuming he is quite big.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Nooooo hes not even a big dog, hes medium. I think ive said before he is about 20-25kg. But ive never seen a dog of this size who has this amount of strength, especially bite force. I will try to get a picture of him uploaded today!
He looks just like a regular black and white english pointer, but his head is not proportional, and instead of being a thin dog, he is shorter but wider. Both vets I have him checked on have told me he is a pitbull mix and his psychology reveals that. Also he bites - holds - shakes instead of that Bite - Run - Bite - Run tactic you see in most dogs, including wild dogs.
Also he is very cute, with almond brown eyes, and when you pet him the way he likes he gives you those sleepy eyes ::drool:

I mean my grandpa had some dogs, and one was the nervous yet small kind of dog, that bites nervously when you touch him. I used to grab him (the dog lol) and put him on my lap, then putting a hand on him, he bit like 100 times, but since i left my hand in there, he would stop and chill out. He stopped biting people that way. We think he got that because he was surrounded by dogs much larger than him so he became scared. but with that dog i would my hand in his mouth, this one can take my fingers out lol!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

barbazul said:


> Nooooo hes not even a big dog, hes medium. I think ive said before he is about 20-25kg. But ive never seen a dog of this size who has this amount of strength, especially bite force. I will try to get a picture of him uploaded today!
> He looks just like a regular black and white english pointer, but his head is not proportional, and instead of being a thin dog, he is shorter but wider. Both vets I have him checked on have told me he is a pitbull mix and his psychology reveals that. Also he bites - holds - shakes instead of that Bite - Run - Bite - Run tactic you see in most dogs, including wild dogs.
> Also he is very cute, with almond brown eyes, and when you pet him the way he likes he gives you those sleepy eyes ::drool:


Bites, holding and shaking is a very terrier like behaviour not necessarily meaning he is pitbull type, most (if not all) terriers are 'finishers' in that they hold down and shake, any dog from a jack russell terrier to a staffordshire bull terrier will do this. The nip, run, nip style is usually reserved for dogs like border collies.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Oops sorry, I didnt mean that his bitting tactic was about him being pit mixed. What I meant is that , as far as I know (or think I know), pointers use that nipping tactic, which mine doesnt.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Aye, just thought you might like to know it doesn't necessarily mean pitbull, there's lots of breeds like that out there with big heads such as American Bulldogs and some Staffordshire Bull Terriers, English Bull Terriers are like that too.  Depending on how popular pitbulls are where you are would probably indicate how likely it is. Odd mix if it is pitbull and pointer anyway, two completely different dog groups.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Pitbull reputaion here is crap. You hear on the news 5 cases of dogs attacking people and they call them all pitbulls, they call a rotweiller a pitbull. LOL Would a chiuaua be on the news for bitting a person? People gotta realize a bigger dg can cause more damage, just that. They are not mean because they are big haha
At least they are not banned, but they are on a Dangerous Dog list and are supposed to have criminal record and must be neutered. the jack russel is the dog that bites people the most according to the statistics, and any dog will bite you if under certain circunstances. I think its just pure cruelty whats happening here, because pitbulls and other amazing breed are being put to sleep everyday because of people that do the same as me, but dont have the balls to admit their mistake nor try to make a better tomorro. In here, if a pitbull bites, he is shot.
What the vets told me is based on blood analysis if I remember. But i'm not sure. Then they wanted to rid me of all the paper work and wrote in the form that my dog is a mut


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## [email protected] (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi there, have just read through this entire thread and think that you have been given some very sound advice here. It will take a long time to gain trust and respect back from your dog but it can be done. Dogs are very forgiving but you will have to go down the gentle route with lots of praise and treats so rewarding good behaviour patterns.
Like one of the other members said, if you are committed to doing the right thing you will get there in the end and enjoy a secure relationship with your dog but if you have doubts at all in future, know when to admit defeat if necessary. Best of luck and thank you for posting this thread and for being honest about your situation. Please let us all know how you get on in the future.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi and thanks for stopping by!
Yes I know, it will take a long time, but if in the end I look at my boy and see a happy muzzle and also respect (boundaries and all that) it will definitely be worth it! Its actually what motivates me to go on! I want to see this guy enjoying his life. We complain so much about our life being short and even so we dont enjoy it fully at all times, I imagine if I could only live 20 years (which is my current age). All I care is that this guy gets what he deserves, and that is having a balanced and happy life! I've had a very rough life myself and feel like i'll never get over that, lost health ad time of my life on things I shouldn't have, things I will never get back. I have become bitter and fearful because of the way things happened. What remains is a naturally anxious and nervous person, who feels guilty and sorry and that now that hes realized all this, has a lot of love to give, especially to the ones he harmed. Maybe that love can heal old wounds in my dog. and its funny because afterall, when I call him he still comes at me shaking is tail and immediatly throws himself to the floor all stretched. Maybe his unconditional love can also heal some of my old wounds 

And maybe I stop writing a page in every post?


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi again,
Today when I went playing with my dog, I remembered how much he loved playing tug of war. I stopped doing it since the agression started because I somehow related both. We did it today just to get a feel again and he was so happy doing it. Its really his thing since he was young.
What I mean is that after that I looked at him and he was very well exercised.
He pulls very hard but hes very careful not to hurt my hand on the other side of the ball. And I mean very careful. Also I don't even have to tell him to stop if I dont want to because he responds to any sign that youve had enough and stays calm (ears back, mouth open, tongue out). The thing is that while hes bitting the ball he growls a LOT, and I have full trust on him in that occasion to rub my hand anywhere on him, and I know he wont bite me. He knows he is playing a game and gives his best to it! If you show him a toy its the first thing he wants to do with it, tug of war.
What are your thoughts on this? Should I be doing this more regularly or should I stop at once? Can it affect the actions of the dog outside of the play? people talk a lot about it being bad but I never had a true information.
Also I came across another dog today, very similar to him, and when he saw it he jumpedin its direction. If I put my hand on him he would bit me instead. What I did was, I used the leash to pull him back, and started walking in the opposite direction, then I said my word for him to come to me, and when he came I praised him. Im not sure if this is right but I wanted above all to end up as a positive situation. He came to me and sit at my side, but always looking in the direction where the other dog should be, like if he came back he would do the same.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

barbazul said:


> Hi again,
> Today when I went playing with my dog, I remembered how much he loved playing tug of war. I stopped doing it since the agression started because I somehow related both. We did it today just to get a feel again and he was so happy doing it. Its really his thing since he was young.
> What I mean is that after that I looked at him and he was very well exercised.
> He pulls very hard but hes very careful not to hurt my hand on the other side of the ball. And I mean very careful. Also I don't even have to tell him to stop if I dont want to because he responds to any sign that youve had enough and stays calm (ears back, mouth open, tongue out). The thing is that while hes bitting the ball he growls a LOT, and I have full trust on him in that occasion to rub my hand anywhere on him, and I know he wont bite me. He knows he is playing a game and gives his best to it! If you show him a toy its the first thing he wants to do with it, tug of war.
> ...


Tug of war is great. The idea that it can make a dog aggressive, or not know its place, is another of the daft pack leader/show him whose boss theories which have been outdated and as you can see by your own dog, caused more problem dogs.

He will always growl while playing, every dog does, but it is not an aggressive growl it is more of a loud purr, though I doubt that is a good way to describe it. When my two play some people think they are fighting because of the growling that goes on, but it is entirely different.

As to the training with the other dog - you seem to have it partly right, but you are leaving it too late. You know how he is going to react to another dog, so you need to turn him away before he reacts. You need to keep alert and make sure you see it first. And turn him away, do not pull on his lead.

You seem to be catching up with things, which is great news for your dog. Well done.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Like newfies mum says tug of war is great for playing together so long as he knows to let go if you ask him to. Growling is perfectly normal, especially in bull breeds, some staffs I know sound like they're killing something when they play tug with me :lol: Tug is essentially a primal game where you're sharing 'a kill', it doesn't make your dog aggressive at all but it does allow him an outlet for his natural instinct and by playing with him you're taking part in his fun. 

Sounds like you're getting the hang of what to do when a dog is in sight too ,keep it up and he'll get much better after lots of practice. Well done


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

I always spot the other dogs first, so it will be easy for me to do that. The thing is that I feel that this way, since hes never going to face the other dog, he wont learn not to attack it. Or is that something I must introduce later on after we trust each other? The other dogs often don't even give him any sign they want a fight, the will look at him obviosly, and for him that look is enough. Its my dogs own iniciative.
So basically, I spot the other dog first and then walk away from it? 
Also I notice a lot that my dog sees and listens a lot, sniffing for him is something he does on the ground.
Today I came across a baby chiuaua, female, she was loose and came running towards my dog. He was on the leash but he played a lot, and licked her "parts" a lot aswell hahah. She was very playfull as the puppy she is, and would lay down, tummy up, and he licked and licked LOL I wasnt afraid he would bite at all. At that moment I would release him from the leash with almost full trust he wouldnt bite, if I wasnt in a big city full of cars.
Yeah, the way he growls in tug of war is different, I can easily notice that by knowing him, but I've seen other dogs playing tug, and they all growl, but not like this haha. it seems like hes doing all that noise because of his muzzle shape aswell, just by breathing. He has a tendency to growl in many situations, that growl, not the agressive growl, but he sounds like hes really killing something LOL Well I usually make him run for quite some time, and only leave when I see that he is exausted, and with tug of war he gets physically tired quite fast. I will start doing this more often then. Do you think it is also a way for him to relief his will to bite something? Or is this just me thinking as a human? He is a chewer if you let him, so I guess he has that will. I personally think that playing tug of war is great for a dog to learn what he can bite and what he can't, but theres so many speculation around it, that to go safe I decided to stop. I guess I took away from him one of the things he likes the most.
I don't have a camera but I will have a friend over this week who has one, so I will post a picture soon.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

barbazul said:


> I always spot the other dogs first, so it will be easy for to do that. The thing is that I feel that this way, since hes never going to face the other dog, he wont learn not to attack it. Or is that something I must introduce later on after we trust each other? The other dogs often don't even give him any sign they want a fight, the will look at him obviosly, and for him that look is enough. Its my dogs own iniciative.
> Yeah, the way he growls in tug of war is different, I can easily notice that by knowing him, but I've seen other dogs playing tug, and they all growl, but not like this haha. it seems like hes doing all that noise because of his muzzle shape aswell, just by breathing. He has a tendency to growl in many situations, that growl, not the agressive growl, but he sounds like hes really killing something LOL Well I usually make him run for quite some time, and only leave when I see that he is exausted, and with tug of war he gets physically tired quite fast. I will start doing this more often then. Do you think it is also a way for him to relief his will to bite something? Or is this just me thinking as a human? He is a chewer if you let him  I personally think that playing tug of war is great for a dog to learn what he can bite and what he can't.
> I don't have a camera but I will have a friend over this week who has one, so I will post a picture soon.


Think of it this way: He sees a dog, he gets close to that dog, he reacts to that dog, and you jerk his lead which is unpleasant. To your dog's mind sight of a dog equals something unpleasant. That is what you have to get rid of and it won't be easy. When you see another dog, turn him away, sit him down and give him lots of treats till the other dog has past. Hopefully let him have a glimpse, but it is not essential at this stage. Then your dog will think: dog equals tasty treats. Do you see? You want him to meet other dogs, but you cannot force it; it takes time.

Tug of war won't replace his urge to bite, no. I think he bites and aggresses because he is scared, it is his defence mechanism. If he likes to chew get him a Kong and stuff it with peanut butter, or kong filling.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sounds to me like that girl dog you met earlier was in season hence rolling on her back and flirting.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Ok that makes all sense. Are you a dog trainer or something like that?
The treat will have to be veeeery tasty in order for him to focus while the other dog passes by, like beef or chicken!
I notice he is a lot more confident since I've been praising him a lot for every good behaviour. When I call him to me and he looks at me I praise him, if he doesnt come or doesn't look at me I just ignore him.
Also I've been feeding him like I was suggested to, by putting down the empty bowl and adding small handfuls, and it might be breaking the ice on people around his food. He finishes eating a handful then he knows I will have to get near to put more in so he is fine with that. I hold the food bag while doing this, so that he also learns that big objects and noise aren't gonna take his food away from him, and they are actaully a good sign.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Nooooo LOL she was like 3 or 4 months old, max! She looked like she had just been born haha those dogs are really small
Her behaviour was submissive puppy behaviour the way I saw it. Unless dogs that age can be in season, which I think they dont.
How have you all been?
Thanks for replies!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

:lol: No, not a dog trainer (and neither is newfiesmum) but I've read a ton of dog training books and try to do lots of training myself. Sounds like you're making progress in lots of areas which is great, I'm so glad you came on here to get some advice and it's making your lives better.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

barbazul said:


> Ok that makes all sense. Are you a dog trainer or something like that?
> The treat will have to be veeeery tasty in order for him to focus while the other dog passes by, like beef or chicken!
> I notice he is a lot more confident since I've been praising him a lot for every good behaviour. When I call him to me and he looks at me I praise him, if he doesnt come or doesn't look at me I just ignore him.
> Also I've been feeding him like I was suggested to, by putting down the empty bowl and adding small handfuls, and it might be breaking the ice on people around his food. He finishes eating a handful then he knows I will have to get near to put more in so he is fine with that. I hold the food bag while doing this, so that he also learns that big objects and noise aren't gonna take his food away from him, and they are actaully a good sign.


No, just been around dogs all my life and seen what makes sense and what doesn't. I am so glad it all seems to be working out, especially the food guarding. Keep us updated.


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## JTP (Nov 20, 2012)

Hi barbazul,

I've read your predicament, and would just like to add a few note worthy points. (I'm currently doing an animal behaviourist course and just thought to analyze your case for you).

The problems you face with your dog as I gather are:
(a) Aggression to other dogs (Pitbull)
(b) Food aggression (Territorial)
(c) Huge prey drive (English pointer/Pitbull)
(d) Switches his bed for your couch when you're not there to see it (English pointer)
(e) Aggression when approaching his bed (Territorial)
(f) Bitten you and your fellow housemate (Pitbull)

Because he is a crossbreed of an English pointer x Pitbull, there are traits from both that he'll possess. And some of these traits he's genetically predispositioned to have, but due to abusive behaviour from the past, it has brought out these traits that could have been honed, to a difficult manner, creating a difficult relationship for you and your pet.

Based on the above problems, listed in brackets as above are the different traits that come from each breed that it has possibly inherited from.

*English pointers* are naturally even-tempered, affectionate and loyal, happy living indoors as part of the family, aggression levels are very low, habitual couch potatoes (enjoys relaxing on family's chairs or sofa) and are good with both dogs and cats. It is a sporting breed and requires regular exercise.

*Pit Bull* on the other hand are developed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, are very confident and outgoing, dependent on their owners, huge prey drive, not good with other dogs and may chase small animals/livestock and their sense of natural confidence can be eroded by severe abuse/long confinement with little human contact.

As you can see some of these traits fit well with your pet's current personality and your past situation.

Recommendations:

-Keep up with socializing with your pet 
-DO NOT regress in your habits and rituals with him (i.e. walks, games, etc.)
-Whatever habits you're upkeeping with your pet to socialize with him, make sure if your housemate is involved in feeding or walking, to do the same as what you do.
-Highly recommended that if you should find the need to move house, not to your mom's place or anywhere else that has another pet would be a good decision as she has 2 cats. (Your pet has a huge prey drive and may create and even more unpleasant relationship with your family if anything unfortunate should happen to the cats)
And putting him outside your mom's house because of the cats (if you should move there) is not a good feasible start to help him with his behavioural problems, as he has displayed an English pointer trait of being an indoor type dog.

Lastly, good work on keeping up with life and yourself.

If you've any questions or updates of your pet, please feel free to let me know.

PS. What's your pet name? I prefer to address them by their names.

Cheers,
JTP


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JTP said:


> Hi barbazul,
> 
> I've read your predicament, and would just like to add a few note worthy points. (I'm currently doing an animal behaviourist course and just thought to analyze your case for you).
> 
> ...


Why you think that biting the OP and his housemate is a trait of the pitbull, I cannot imagine, especially when you then go on to say they were bred to fight other dogs. This is a total contradiction as it is rare for a dog to be both dog aggressive and people aggressive.

Pitbulls are one of the breeds known as the nanny dog and although they have fallen into the wrong hands and been used for illegal fighting, that is not what they were bred for.

You obviously need to do more research.


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## JTP (Nov 20, 2012)

Hi Newfiesmum,

Thank you for your criticism.

It is not a contradiction and definitely not rare to have a dog aggressive and people aggressive canine.

Such canines are dog aggressive because in this case Pit Bulls have been historically bred to display dominance and aggression toward other dogsa relic of the breeds dog fighting past. (I'm guessing you're saying Pit Bulls are known for being a nanny dog, it may be because currently people are making use of this breed trying to tame it genetically as its in their traits to crave love and attention and are very confident and outgoing. As well that because in modern society now dog fighting is illegal and there is no need for such aggressive traits hence tailoring their other appealing traits towards more useful tasks). Hence its genetically in its trait to be aggressive towards other dogs unless it is well trained when young to curb such behavior.

On the other hand it is people aggressive because of its abusive past. When it has been conditioned in the past to be scared of its owner, any human would likely cause him to be aggressive towards them despite people's good intentions. (i.e. Owner's female housemate, who wants to hug the pet and such).

Alternatively, it is very unfortunate that many unethical breeders do not breed to the standard, producing pit bulls that are both human and dog aggressive.

This dog could have had a good temperament if it had an owner that could handle it better then. And it is recommended that such dogs based on the Pet Adoption Test should be placed with an experienced owner in dog handling. But it was just a wrong dog in the wrong environment that led to such behavioral problems.

Not all is lost, but its not guaranteed that he will recover from such behavioral problems because he is genetically predisposition to be this way contributed to the fact of his abusive past.

Right now, the owner can do is to keep up with his socialization with his pet and just be grateful for the little things his pet allows him to do for it.

Cheers,
Joan


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Hey thanks for your statement!
Name's Buddy! 
Things have been going nicely since I started the treats and praise system. No more bites since then, dog is getting to know his calm side.
I decided to let him go on the couch when we are not there, I even put a blanket on the place where he can be at and there he goes.
He shows the most signs of agression towards big and dark dogs, such as my friends cane corso. The other day I saw him coming and had him sit and startedgiving him treats (sliced sausages with no sodium ) until the other dog passed by. He looked at the dog in between treats but didnt launch at him. Its a start and I'm happy with it for now. I wouldnt mind carrying treats the rest of my life. Now I give him a treat whenever he looks at me and praise him also. When I call him and he looks and comes I praise and treat, when I call and he doesnt pay attention i ignore him and continue my way as he follows me. He has been pulling the leash a bit and I correct that with a little snap on the chain collar, but since he has a sore front paw I think its normal he wants to walk a bit faster because he is hurt. The other day after exercise I noticed that on his paw, its hes weak spot since hes a baby. If this doesnt stop in 2 or 3 days Ill take him to the vet and check it out.
About your analysis, I agree in the behaviour part. I just tend to believe that before he is a pit bull or a pointer he is a dog, and any dog could be like this after the way he was handled. All the pitbulls I've met were cuddlers and nanny dogs, so thats why. 
Today I let him sleep with me, like I used to do before the agression started, this way he gets a feel of his young self again, maybe remembering how life can be cool! he behaved very well, laying at the feet of the bed, and after I gave him calming signals, like yawning, he responded with those same signals and had his head laying on my foot, like a pillow. I felt he was coming closer to me at his own will, but also at his own time. We both enjoyed a night of warming each other (its cold out here!), and cuddling (i pet him to sleep, he licks me lol).
Now when I call him he associates that call to a treat and looks at me almost everytime. I got to keep this going because its working with him. He is sausage motivated hahah
Also the feeding part has been going nicely. I know they dont think this way, but even the way he looks while eating seems more relaxed, he wants to eat each small handful fast because he knows more is to come after that  I am starting to be a provider instead of a threat.
As to socializing, he gets along with most dogs we meet, especially girls. Small males its play time. Big dogs and dark dogs its a no no for now, that will need some work. Im saving money already to go check a professional also. I think that given the fact that Buddy has a lot of drive (im not saying prey drive), and is eager to "work", he can be taught new things. A dog who is not a threeat for him can even be ignored without my call. Also i've seen a new kind of behaviour from him which pleases me a lot. He snifs the other small dog, and instead of being obcessed with him he pulls hard to go piss on some bush, so that the other dog does the same. Its communication! non agressive communication! Im happy ! ;D
Good luck on your course btw m8!


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

well done - it sounds like you're making a lot of progress already and both re-discovering the enjoyment of being with each other. Some things take more time than others and there may be things you will never get to the stage you want (Buddy might never really like being around big dark coloured dogs, but may well be able to cope with them being closer than he can cope with now), the important thing is not to give up and not to try to go for the "quick fix" but just work through things.
Good luck and I hope things continue to get better.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi! I didnt have time to post here before, ive been painting my new house!
things are going fine, altho due to the rain we dont play some much outside. Ive been taking him out lots of times during the day so he exercises both his body and mind.
Today a friend of mine aproached me with his dog, a 7 or 8 months old boxer/husky mix. the dog is beautiful. looks like a boxer with long muzzle and husky bright eyes. He is also very friendly and bigger than my dog. I had the chance to walk them both and even let them play (altho on the leash cause it was near the road). 
Now comes my greatest doubt. Buddy didnt bite or growl once, he had that jolly look on his face and clearly wanted to intensively socialize. when i walked them both he was constantly trying to jump on the other dog, pulling the leash very hard. How can I teach my dog to not do that to other dogs? He is obcessed about the dog and then if i let him go he wants to do the "hug" thing, and then put himself on top of the other dog, like if he was humping him.
What is the real cause of this and what can i do about it? If he could behave better with other dogs i would give him so many oportunities to play with them. But i feel that all this intensity can easily lead to something bad, because the other dogs also answer back on the dominance thing, not letting him be on their back or even growling at him. This can make him snap and attack.
thanks all! bye bye!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

barbazul said:


> Hi! I didnt have time to post here before, ive been painting my new house!
> things are going fine, altho due to the rain we dont play some much outside. Ive been taking him out lots of times during the day so he exercises both his body and mind.
> Today a friend of mine aproached me with his dog, a 7 or 8 months old boxer/husky mix. the dog is beautiful. looks like a boxer with long muzzle and husky bright eyes. He is also very friendly and bigger than my dog. I had the chance to walk them both and even let them play (altho on the leash cause it was near the road).
> Now comes my greatest doubt. Buddy didnt bite or growl once, he had that jolly look on his face and clearly wanted to intensively socialize. when i walked them both he was constantly trying to jump on the other dog, pulling the leash very hard. How can I teach my dog to not do that to other dogs? He is obcessed about the dog and then if i let him go he wants to do the "hug" thing, and then put himself on top of the other dog, like if he was humping him.
> ...


It sounds to me like he really wanted to play, I would try and get them in a place where you can let them play together. At 8/9 months this dog is still a puppy and should be very playful, ask your friend if he has ever growled at a dog and if not I thing they should be okay to play together. If it helps set your mind at ease here is a video of my dog playing with a typical boxer when she was younger:

Kes and Max 1 - YouTube

And here are some pictures of her playing with a husky pup when she was younger:





































As you can see from these rough play is quite common in both of these breeds so I feel like it might be a good fit for your dog if he wants to wrestle. It can look quite brutal to those who are not used to it, paws will fly, they will wrestle, it's likely the husky in your friends dog will mean he will play bite your dog. I think you should be relaxed and observe very closely, don't try to be stressed but keep a very close eye on what is happening and how your dog is reacting. If your dog gets 'snappy' i.e. not play biting back but quickly lunging with an aggressive mouth as opposed to a soft playful mouth then split them up for a short time and carry on walking for a little while til they've calmed down. If they are having a good time, chasing each other, jumping around and enjoying it then this might be very good for your dog and will be a good experience.

As for how to stop him being so intense in play I think he may need to learn some limits for sure, but in order to do that he needs to have a good few memories of good play sessions first before he will accept being told off by other dogs who want him to calm down. If his experiences are not as positive he is more likely to growl back and the situation will escalate. I think for now concentrate on getting him some good associations with other dogs and then later on once he is good with dogs you can think about working on him not being so playful. If someone else has better or more sound advice I'd love them to chime in also.


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## barbazul (Nov 14, 2012)

That was a very helpful post Phoof! 
What my dog did was not much beyond what i see in your video, except my dog is way more obcessed and that means also more rough. Most of the times I notice the other dog isn't enjoying his roughness so much and they start running away from. That concerned me until now since i now understand it is them telling him "I dont like that, lets do something else" haha

I also spoke with my mom and she told me that a house in which 2 humans dont share rules, will make the dog only respect whatever he wants and also feel even more unsure since he will not agnowledge us both as a single pack with a single set of rules (i mean only house rules). She accepted to have a chat with me about these rules so that we both do the same thing. She understands how my dog feels and said this would be a good chance for him to start over, because she will also assume the leader position and that will give him a new person to introduce him to a new pack.
Only problem is the cats LOL i would put them living upstairs mostly and the dog wouldnt be able to go there with a little fence on the stairs. But mom doesnt like the idea of their crate being upstairs, even tho its cleaned every 2 days, still smells lol
the logistics!


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