# Cesar Millan Love him or hate him - you decide



## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

Trying to creat a poll - had it worked


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

neither no interest in himx


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

Hate is such a strong word but it suits Cesar so perfectly!


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

poor cesarhe must be gutted


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

Hate him xx


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

i really like him


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

I dont love him or hate him!


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

lol where's Janice she'll be loving him no doubt ha ha but not for his dog rehabilitation!


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## Sitmus (May 11, 2008)

love him


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

There isn't an option for 'No idea who he is'


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## TinyTashi (May 29, 2008)

There's no option for neither hate or love, cos i dont hate him but i dont love him, cant understand the man have the time


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

well its a good job checked on here before going to bed...I LOVE HIM
they say all good things come in small packages,and he is small but has a BIG heart


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## Roborovski (Sep 15, 2008)

Who? haha

Let me get wikipedia up!


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> well its a good job checked on here before going to bed...I LOVE HIM
> they say all good things come in small packages,and he is small but has a BIG heart


I don't think its his heart your talking about janice lmao


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

nic b said:


> I don't think its his heart your talking about janice lmao


pmsl...i dont know hat you mean


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## Mrsbirnie (Feb 12, 2008)

I think he is excellent, from watching his programmes and reading his book, i have corrected a few things in my dog, but i can't do the whole not treating my dog like she's a baby thing  can't help that.....love her to bits!!!


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## CJAnderson (Jul 10, 2008)

Too bad the poll is closed! 

I am sure the hundreds of dogs who were not abnadoned because of his direct help and their owners love him.

I know that the thousands of people using his solutions on my Yahoo email list, not quite 3000 right now (with another 10,000 dog owners who have come in, solved their problems and left nothing but their success stories that one can read in the open list archives) are grateful for the fact that so many of his techniques are easily and safely replicatable by those dog owners who are less skilled.

I know for a fact that the over 30 last chance dogs that I have helped directly, many whom can be seen on my youtube.com/cjanderson site, are grateful that a "non-(dog) professional" was willing to step up and use her technques to rehab them so they would find happy forever omes. :thumbsup:

So I guess that about the only people who do not love what he is doing for problem dogs are people who cannot be bothered to learn how to do what he does CORRECTLY, or who would prefer these "problem dogs" that their solutions do not help, be euthanized, then replaced with ''good dogs" because, you know~ if one goes through enough of those, one is bound to find a "good dog" that one doesnt have to work with, or for whole the "traditional" solutions DO work!


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

JANICE199 said:


> well its a good job checked on here before going to bed...I LOVE HIM
> they say all good things come in small packages,and he is small but has a BIG heart


Janice, where is the I love Cesar Milan banner? Come on girl, you take one end and I will take the other


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## jfreilich (Jan 27, 2009)

Awe,... bummer. I was going to join the poll as well. Ok,.. here's my stance,..

I love him!!! 

Just one moment on my little soapbox here,..

As a professional trainer of nearly 15 years if there is one thing I know, its that there are as many "opinions" out there as there are dog people. I understand this, and accept this.

The first four years of my training career I started out apprenticing under internationally known trainers/behaviorists/authors. I was taught everything from all levels of obedience, all levels of protection/detection, therapy/service dog training and more. We were taught many methods to keep in our tool box,.. old school military styles, clicker, all positive motivation/reinforcement, etc.

I am very grateful for all of this training. I loved learning how to use a combination of all methods to find exactly what each and every dog needed. Even with all of this training, I still somehow found that something was missing for many dogs. This is when I came across this guy on tv that can walk a pack of dogs.

At first, my ego jumped in. I thought,.. omg,.. there is no way that can be real. I have never met a dog trainer that can do that,.. I don't believe it! He's got to be a phony!

So, I started watching. Resolved to let my ego go. 
Then I had a client with two incredibly aggressive dogs. Both females, and every fight resulted in stitches and drainage tubes. So, I had only one thing left to do,... search out the man they call the Dog Whisperer himself and get help. Ego pushed aside completely. Humbled. Anything to save these two dogs from being euthanized.

At the time he was filiming season one, so they sent me to Linn Boyke,.. one of only three personally taught by CM himself.

In only 2.5 hours he had these two "killers" plaing off leash with his pack of 9 dogs,.. off leash! No fights! hmy:

I could hardly believe it! From that moment on I knew if I was going to continue my career as a trainer, I had to learn to be humble, and open. I began to apprentice under Linn and learn CM's philosophy and methods first hand.

That was in April 2005. To this day, I still get an incredible amount of my clientele from all the other dog trainers in my area. And living in the Inland Empire,.. Southern California,.. it is a big area. Clients come to me because they have tried one or two of the other trainers out there and still cannot fix their dogs issues. I am very happy to solve all of the issues plaguing them. I am very grateful and very humbled to be able to save so many lives.

Cesar Millan's philosophy has made me a better dog trainer, able to rehabilitate the worst case scenarios and save lives, has helped me to better understand people, and has made me a more confident, stronger woman.

I am grateful that I did not let my ego interfere with my learning, and all of these life lessons.

Blessings,
Jenifer Freilich
At The End of Your Leash - Welcome
At The End of Your Leash! | MySpace.com


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## shazern66 (Jan 16, 2009)

love him what he did with the dogs who where beyond help he helped them hes a hero


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## mckitty (Jan 11, 2009)

i missed the poll but think hes amazing, love him !


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## flashallen13 (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm going to give my opinion even if the poll is closed! 

I LOVE Cesar's Way. I have only seen the Dog Whisperer a handful of times because I do not get the channel it comes on, but I have read all 4 of his boooks, have read articles and info pieces by and on him, and have watched snippets of his shows and DVD's on the internet. 

I can honestly say I was not my dog's pack leader before I read his first book, Cesar's Way. I didnt' have a bad dog, just a fearful and nervous one. Since I have become her pack leader, she now has someone to trust and to follow. She is a respectful dog. I can give her a rule, and she follows it. I can take her in public without her creating chaos by barking or running away. I have a dog who is a pleasure to be around. While she loves affection in forms of treats and verbal praise and the occasional petting, she does not demand it at all times. She is calm, not because she's not happy, but because she IS happy! She's happy that she knows that she is part of a pack and has a place in that pack. She's happy because she gets the pack walks that she needs. She's happy because she WORKS for her food and affection. She's happy because she knows what is expected out of her. She's happy because she knows I LOVE her and she will always be part of my pack.

All of this, I learned from Cesar. I have adopted his philosophy as my own. There are things I change that suit my dog. There are things that I do a little differently because they work better for me, my dog, and our life. But I understand what my dog NEEDS, realize that is different from what I may want to give her (human psychology is different from dog psychology!!!), and am happy giving her what she needs because it makes her happy....and balanced!


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

I think he has, erm, interesting training methods and I am afraid I would have to go with the hate option...


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

Rosikus said:


> There isn't an option for 'No idea who he is'


hes a puffta.........:thumbup1:


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

borderer said:


> hes a puffta.........:thumbup1:


t
try telling Janice that


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## peklove (Jan 27, 2009)

I didn't see his show. Is there a reason why anybody would hate him?


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

peklove said:


> I didn't see his show. Is there a reason why anybody would hate him?


Not everyone agrees with CM's methods. There are many good trainers out there - I was anti CM but having watched his latest shows have shall we say 'swayed a little' since tghe start of this poll!


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## TerryS (Jan 27, 2009)

I think Cesar is a wonderful example of a dog behavior expert. He's not a trainer. He's not a behaviorist. He's a guy who grew up interacting with a large pack of dogs, who earned the nickname "El Perrero" when he was quite young, and who has a gift for understanding what dogs think and feel. His work with dogs has saved hundreds and hundreds of dogs whom others considered "beyond help" and fit only for euthanasia. Cesar trains humans - teaches them how to be calm and assertive when dealing with their dogs - and rehabilitates dogs - helps them overcome their fear and/or aggression toward other dogs or toward humans. He's not quite a miracle worker, but is just about as close as a human being can come!


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

TerryS said:


> I think Cesar is a wonderful example of a dog behavior expert. He's not a trainer. He's not a behaviorist. He's a guy who grew up interacting with a large pack of dogs, who earned the nickname "El Perrero" when he was quite young, and who has a gift for understanding what dogs think and feel. His work with dogs has saved hundreds and hundreds of dogs whom others considered "beyond help" and fit only for euthanasia. Cesar trains humans - teaches them how to be calm and assertive when dealing with their dogs - and rehabilitates dogs - helps them overcome their fear and/or aggression toward other dogs or toward humans. He's not quite a miracle worker, but is just about as close as a human being can come!


Well thanks for the explaination - sure Janice will be your number one Fan!
Welcome to the forum
xxx


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

I think hes a great man love him to bits , hes so not a puftta and got lovely wife and kids he saves dogs that would be put down , smashing caring bloke,:thumbup:


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well thanks for the explaination - sure Janice will be your number one Fan!
> Welcome to the forum
> xxx


Your'e kidding ...i never knew Janice liked Cesar. She's never mentioned that...lol.


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## GWPLady (Jan 28, 2009)

I love Cesar's philosophy, enough that we incorporated his methodology into our rescue foster homes for rehabilitation. He has made a tremendous difference in the way we see ourselves, given us confidence to work with strong dogs with unknown history.

He is so dedicated to rescue and rehabilitation, and we are all so grateful for the wisdom, and tools he has passed along to those of us that do this on a daily basis.

GWPRescue.com


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## k2k9dogs (Jul 12, 2008)

Love him, respect him and know that he is a person who has helped countless dogs in his relentless efforts to rescue many "hopeless" dogs from being euthanized due to aggression.


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

I think he's brilliant he has done so much to educate people that dogs dont just need love but excerise as well.Sometimes i think people think his methods are a bit hard but he is dealing with very difficult dogs.I like the power of the pack and having worked in a rescue that doesnt kennel and have dogs in packs i have seen this with nervous dogs they soon come round when all the others come for treats and fusses.
I also like the way he never blames the dogs but the owners but helps them understand where they have gone wrong
Hope he carries on with loads more series and keeps the profile of training dogs to the fore.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*lol i can see Cesars fan club growing by the min....*


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

I have a HUGE amount of respect for his work in rehabilitating dogs and rescue and of course his support of pits. I do have some issues with a few of his methods and do worry of 'Joe Public' attempting some of the things he does. Cesar has an aura that dogs respond to, which is why he can get away with some actions that I wouldn't advise to just anyone. That said I've got alot from his programs and do think he's a good guy.

My fan club would be for Daddy...OMG I love that dog!!! I could scoop him up and take him home!! Now that is an ambassador for his breed. :001_wub:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JSR said:


> I have a HUGE amount of respect for his work in rehabilitating dogs and rescue and of course his support of pits. I do have some issues with a few of his methods and do worry of 'Joe Public' attempting some of the things he does. Cesar has an aura that dogs respond to, which is why he can get away with some actions that I wouldn't advise to just anyone. That said I've got alot from his programs and do think he's a good guy.
> 
> My fan club would be for Daddy...OMG I love that dog!!! I could scoop him up and take him home!! Now that is an ambassador for his breed. :001_wub:


*There was agreat eoisode on last night, when he called for Daddy to calm another dog...what a great bond he has with his pack.*


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *There was agreat eoisode on last night, when he called for Daddy to calm another dog...what a great bond he has with his pack.*


Oh it inspires me the way he walks with them. I think I'd cry if I got to meet Daddy!!

I used to be quiet loud and shouty with my lot (I grew up in a big family so shouting is our way of talking), but since watching him I'm really consious (sp) of my effect on my pack and it's really amazing seeing the difference!! Just the simple things like walk time, me saying hi-pitched 'come on guys time for walks' used to create a riot!!! Now I quietly collect the leads and make them all sit to have them put on, so simple but effective!
My boys have chilled completely, so much so I can allow them to greet any other dogs off lead. Something I'd never have risked before, I do keep the bitch on the lead if I see other dogs because she can be unpredictable and the pack will follow her lead but I can handle her in a calmer and effective manner with his methods.


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## Zelexin (Jan 26, 2009)

I actually really like him. He is doing something right. He has to be, or he wouldn't be able to look after so many dogs himself.


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

I am right in thinking he condones the use of electric shock collars, aren't I?


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

TravCat said:


> I am right in thinking he condones the use of electric shock collars, aren't I?


Not so much condones them but has used them in training dogs to avoid snakes. Which to be honest if I lived in an area with rattle snakes, I think I'd rather do the 'short sharp shock' training than deal with the alternative.

USA as a country does seem keen on prong collars which I have a problem with, I've not actually seen one myself but have heard they are no harsher than choke chains..but personally I'd like to see choke chains banned too!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JSR said:


> Not so much condones them but has used them in training dogs to avoid snakes. Which to be honest if I lived in an area with rattle snakes, I think I'd rather do the 'short sharp shock' training than deal with the alternative.
> 
> USA as a country does seem keen on prong collars which I have a problem with, I've not actually seen one myself but have heard they are no harsher than choke chains..but personally I'd like to see choke chains banned too!!


*hi ya, would just like to tell you,last night he was explaining the use of the prong collar,and from what i gatherd, it has the same affect as if another dog were to grab the dog...but he also streesed that people should know how to use them properly,and the prongs should NEVER pearce the skin..*


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *hi ya, would just like to tell you,last night he was explaining the use of the prong collar,and from what i gatherd, it has the same affect as if another dog were to grab the dog...but he also streesed that people should know how to use them properly,and the prongs should NEVER pearce the skin..*


Ahh really? :thumbup: Was this on Sky or Animal Planet? I think the look of them makes me nervous but I haven't really researched them properly cos they don't seem popular in this country. I assume then they are used for training then swapped to a normal collar once sorted?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JSR said:


> Ahh really? :thumbup: Was this on Sky or Animal Planet? I think the look of them makes me nervous but I haven't really researched them properly cos they don't seem popular in this country. I assume then they are used for training then swapped to a normal collar once sorted?


*its on national geo channel 528 i think....he was dealing with a rottie called nikki, he sure showed himself to be top dog in that show...The rottie turned on one of Cesars white german shepherds and he sorted them out...lol rather him than me.*


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *its on national geo channel 528 i think....he was dealing with a rottie called nikki, he sure showed himself to be top dog in that show...The rottie turned on one of Cesars white german shepherds and he sorted them out...lol rather him than me.*


Brill thanks will look out for it. :thumbsup: I've not seen an episode yet where any dog has the guts (or stupidity) to take on his pack!!! Even my girlie would think twice about starting anything with them!!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JSR said:


> Brill thanks will look out for it. :thumbsup: I've not seen an episode yet where any dog has the guts (or stupidity) to take on his pack!!! Even my girlie would think twice about starting anything with them!!!


*you know when your checking ie, the info about a programe on sky,,it will say its about niki the rottie...got to say even my o/h was impressed.*


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## k2k9dogs (Jul 12, 2008)

Hi,
Cesar doesn't condone the use of shock collars. In the three episodes where shock collars were used, it was because the dog's owner already had a shock collar and did not know how to properly use it. Cesar showed them how to properly use it so as not to harm the dog, or themselves. Cesar prefers to use no tools at all, instead relying on his energy and body language. Please watch these three episodes again, and you will see that in each case he (or the announcer) explains that the person wanted to use a shock collar but was not using it correctly. Cesar doesn't bring tools with him to the client's home. He uses tools that the client already has on hand (mostly leashes), if necessary, but generally doesn't use any tools at all. Thanks for listening.


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

JSR said:


> Not so much condones them but has used them in training dogs to avoid snakes. Which to be honest if I lived in an area with rattle snakes, I think I'd rather do the 'short sharp shock' training than deal with the alternative.
> 
> USA as a country does seem keen on prong collars which I have a problem with, I've not actually seen one myself but have heard they are no harsher than choke chains..but personally I'd like to see choke chains banned too!!


I saw a video of him the other day using an electric collar on a dog as a training method. The dog was sitting quietly next to the owner, with CM on the other side of the room. Electric shock activated, dog turned round and bit the owner. No snakes in sight.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

TravCat said:


> I saw a video of him the other day using an electric collar on a dog as a training method. The dog was sitting quietly next to the owner, with CM on the other side of the room. Electric shock activated, dog turned round and bit the owner. No snakes in sight.


*Really? which episode was that about?*


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

TravCat said:


> I saw a video of him the other day using an electric collar on a dog as a training method. The dog was sitting quietly next to the owner, with CM on the other side of the room. Electric shock activated, dog turned round and bit the owner. No snakes in sight.


Was this on a website or the TV program?


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## briarlow (Dec 31, 2008)

Don't like him at all. Views are very old fashioned in many ways and after reading what he actually does to the poor dogs he goes to before filming I'm am shocked that he still has a show!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

briarlow said:


> Don't like him at all. Views are very old fashioned in many ways and after reading what he actually does to the poor dogs he goes to before filming I'm am shocked that he still has a show!


*If he is so cruel then why would he rehome so many dogs that others would have had pts? and all of his dogs are very happy, watch them.
Also being cruel is not in his nature...*


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

It was a video on You Tube, which I think was from one of his episodes, although I am not sure which one. I will see if i can find the link. It also concerns me that he takes people's dog away for a week and "fixes" them. And the disclaimer that says Do not try this at home. 
JMO


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

briarlow said:


> Don't like him at all. Views are very old fashioned in many ways and after reading what he actually does to the poor dogs he goes to before filming I'm am shocked that he still has a show!


Again if you could give where you read that it would be useful? I'm certainly not defending anything but would you as a caring dog owner allow anyone to do anything cruel to your dog for the sake of a TV program?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

TravCat said:


> It was a video on You Tube, which I think was from one of his episodes, although I am not sure which one. I will see if i can find the link. It also concerns me that he takes people's dog away for a week and "fixes" them. And the disclaimer that says Do not try this at home.
> JMO


*I think you will find, when they say dont try this at home, when he takes a persons dog to his pack, is because its not the sort of thing a novice should do.He knows his pack and how to introduce a new member..lol i watch every night.*


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

Ah, I had the impression, it was don't try anything he does at home. A good trainer should be training the owner, not just the dog, if you ask me.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

TravCat said:


> Ah, I had the impression, it was don't try anything he does at home. A good trainer should be training the owner, not just the dog, if you ask me.


*Haha Cesar says on MANY occasions,most of his work IS training the owners and not the dogs.*


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

Clearly you are a Cesar devotee, Janice 
Still can't say as I agree with his methods, ho hum. Does he not also take the dogs away from their owners? Personally I wouldn't let anyone take my dogs away from me - who knows what they might do to them!


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

TravCat said:


> Clearly you are a Cesar devotee, Janice
> Still can't say as I agree with his methods, ho hum. Does he not also take the dogs away from their owners? Personally I wouldn't let anyone take my dogs away from me - who knows what they might do to them!


:drool:
Yes I think it's safe to assume Janice is a fan!! I agree I wouldn't allow anyone to take my dogs either, but I'd certainly jump at the chance to work with the man.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

TravCat said:


> Clearly you are a Cesar devotee, Janice
> Still can't say as I agree with his methods, ho hum. Does he not also take the dogs away from their owners? Personally I wouldn't let anyone take my dogs away from me - who knows what they might do to them!


*lol yes i must be one of his biggest fans..i try not to miss any of his programes.
But can i just say this, if you can, try and watch i'd say at least 6 of his shows and then i think you might get a better understanding of the man...he is constantly talking about being in tune to mother nature...I watched an episode a few nights ago where he was dealing with an aggresive rottie...AMAZING!*


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

I'll be totally honest. My vuew of him is swayed by my father - given that he is working hard to have electric shock collars banned in England, it is safe to say they have very different outlooks on dog behaviour and training methods...

I would watch his prograame as you suggested Janice, but I don't think we can get it up here (we don't have sky, just digital)


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## pinkymilge (Jan 30, 2009)

I have to say LOVE HIM!!!!!! I :drool: over him whenever he is on. Don't have sky so miss most of hi shows but he is on sky 3 which you can get on digital freeview channel 11. He is on tomorrow night at 6 I think it is.... I can't wait!!!!! :drool:


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

here is the link:
KOMO News - Video - Video - Are the Dog Whisperer's methods harmful?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Ok i've just watched to video,as for him " cutting off the dogs air supply", i didnt think so....i'm not convinced yet..*


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

I couldn't get it to work.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JSR said:


> I couldn't get it to work.


*It worked fine for me....*


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## k2k9dogs (Jul 12, 2008)

I'd like to know which episode you're referring to, because I guarantee you Cesar does not use a shock collar unless asked to do so by the owner of the animal. I personally would never use a shock collar, either. But, some of his customers ASK him to teach them how to use one. I promise you, if Cesar were sitting here right now, he would tell you that he is not an advocate of the use of shock collars.

Also, whomever posted about snakes... I have seen every single Dog Whisperer episode several times apiece (I like to watch them more than once) and I have never seen anything about snakes. Are you sure you're not confusing his show with some other show?

To the folks who posted about him "taking dogs away from" their owners for a week, I think you are misinformed. Each family discusses ideas and solutions with Cesar, and sometimes one of the suggestions is that the dog stay for a week or two at Cesar's center in Los Angeles in order to learn how to interact with Cesar's (very well-behaved, gentle and loving) pack. Cesar wouldn't just "take" someone's dog away from them without a lengthy discussion or consultation. Remember, TV shows are edited down in time. What may have taken 6 days to accomplish with the family, is edited down to a 30-minute segment. 

Cesar is not a dog trainer... he specifically describes himself as "I train people".

Finally, Cesar Millan does not have a cruel bone in his body. He is a very gentle, loving human being who would never harm anyone, especially a dog. I am stunned that people have the misimpression that he harms dogs. This cannot be further from the truth, and it is extremely unfair to put that suggestion "out there" -- and especially the part about him doing something to the dogs before filming. I'd love to know where this blatant misinformation is coming from. 

The show is on all night here in the States tonight. It might be a good idea to really watch it a few times, instead of passing judgment that is patently incorrect and harmful to the man's reputation. He's a good man, and he's doing a good thing for dogs who have been given up on. Let's stop dissing the guy and instead congratulate him for savings hundreds of dogs' lives.


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

How can you say on one hand he never hurts or harms dogs, and also say that he uses shock collars - their very use hurts! Have you tried one to see the effect? *They work by hurting the dog*. Positive reinforcement is a much better (imo) training method. 
I do not doubt that his methods work on some dogs - but other (better) methods work, and are better for the animal's welfare. "Training" dogs by use of force and inflicting pain is 20 years out of date. 
I have heard that the less a person knows about dog training, the more they like him. I do not know if this is true, but I have yet to come across any highly regarded animal behaviourists in the UK who hold CM in high esteem.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*As i have never used an Ecollar i don't know what it feels like,but i believe its a sensational like a tens machine, and they dont hurt..But i appreciate not everyone likes Cesar and thats their choice,i'm happy with that.*


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

He tends to use what ever the owners have wether prong collar or electric. All the dogs he trains (or rather owners) its uaually their last chance. In one programme he told the owner that the prong collar was making the dog aggresive and when they took it off the dog was much better behaved.I don't like electric collars or prong collars and think that they should be banned but i had a dog who chased sheep (now at the bridge) and i got to the stage i think i would have tried anything she had a only one more chance so spent most of her life on a lead unless i was absoutey sure there were no sheep around.


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## Kathryn1 (Jan 30, 2009)

I dont have a dog but my sister has a german shephard puppy and she watches him all the time. I have seen him a few times and i thougt he was amazing the way he communicates with the dogs. 

kath xx


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

He tends to use what ever the owners have wether prong collar or electric. All the dogs he trains (or rather owners) its uaually their last chance. In one programme he told the owner that the prong collar was making the dog aggresive and when they took it off the dog was much better behaved.I don't like electric collars or prong collars and think that they should be banned but i had a dog who chased sheep (now at the bridge) and i got to the stage i think i would have tried anything she had a only one more chance so spent most of her life on a lead unless i was absoutey sure there were no sheep around.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

my dogs are chasing rabbits and without a prong or shock collar we are making foot steps forward, they actually start responding to leave.
But of course this took us months to get even to this stage where im sure a shock collar would take maybe an hour 

Also that he uses the collars which the owners ask him to use? Would he cut off a dogs leg if they would ask him to?
As an person with so much authority and like someone said who isnt an advocate of shock or prong collars, he should stand up to them as the "professional" and explaining them why they shouldnt be used and of course he shouldnt use them!

U cant say i dont agree with something and then do the things u dont agree with


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

Hello all, I have had great success in my pack following Cesar's Way, fighting between dogs has ended and I have a large pack with different breeds - this is about being Pack Leader not the tools I use. I am a Behaviourist and am often called in when previous attempts of dog rehab have failed or others have been told the dog cannot recover - these dogs have recoevered now. I coach owners and restore bonds. Not one member of my pack is learned helpless, they do have consequences for acting-out but they are also positively reinforced - there is a balance between discipline and reward in my opinion....but I cannot reward my way out of an aggressive mindset - the dog cannot hear/see me etc so a treat being offered to bribe the dog into wanted behaviour won't work - or at the very worst masks the problem.

I do not use shock collars as yet I have had no need - but if it was a choice about saving a dog's life in an unrgent situation or my dog losing its life, e.g. to a snake bite, I would use aversion therapy but I too would call in a professinal trainer.

Cesar saves lives - many dogs on the DW show are last chance dogs - those others have said cannot be helped - they have been they are balanced dogs now, have you read about the follow-ups...have you read feedback from owners?

Cesar has many dogs in his psychology centre who live balanced lifes now and help other dogs - this in my opinion is to be applauded, he saves lives it is really true and he does so much charity/foundation work to save even more lives. Dog rehab is not obedience training e.g. a dog who respects their leader will return to the leader even if the distraction is much more instinctive to follow, a dog trained to ignore such a distraction may well give-in to their instinct as the behaviour carries greater reward than the one trained with....for my Terriers that would be "chase that rat" and or "come back to me becsue I have a peice of steak" - trained then sometimes they would go for the rat as the instinct self-rewards, out of respect for me their leader they return to me everytime as I am "leading the walk or "hunt" in thier minds, being the pack leader is not about being the boss.

Like Cesar I do not train dogs, my pack of 14 dogs follow my lead out of respect for me their leader, we live as one pack - we have calm energy in our environment and my dogs no longer have problems. My pack are far from helpless but at least 2 here used to be redzone and now recovered - let the dogs speak by their actions I say - fear is gone, aggression a thing of the past, peace restored and chaos left behind - that iis Cesar's Way.

Finally he only uses the tools the owners insist upon using, or as advised by a professional trainer, now I am not one to judge merely on what I see on a TV show - afterall that is just what it is TV, I find out more and more and then I decide what I believe because I know it to be right - my dogs would tell me if I was wrong - I am experienced in dog whisperering now and it works!

Saving lives and balancing dogs = this is my aim too, thanks to Cesar I am inspired to work where many say the dogs cannot be helped, they can, they are and they are not being harmed. While I am "qualified" through dog pscyhology training...I have the "certificates" I learn most from my pack - the dogs are not wrong -they teach me how discipline works then I just mimic them what could be more natural...

Other than the show have others read "Cesar's Way" and "Be the pack leader" ...what about "A member fo the family" - maybe these would help to understand this man and who he truly is.

Best Wishes to all, there are so many many mehtods - In my opinion we need to find the one that works for us in our individual situation and save lives, along with helping dogs return to balance. Suzie


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Suzie.C. said:


> Hello all, I have had great success in my pack following Cesar's Way, fighting between dogs has ended and I have a large pack with different breeds - this is about being Pack Leader not the tools I use. I am a Behaviourist and am often called in when previous attempts of dog rehab have failed or others have been told the dog cannot recover - these dogs have recoevered now. I coach owners and restore bonds. Not one member of my pack is learned helpless, they do have consequences for acting-out but they are also positively reinforced - there is a balance between discipline and reward in my opinion....but I cannot reward my way out of an aggressive mindset - the dog cannot hear/see me etc so a treat being offered to bribe the dog into wanted behaviour won't work - or at the very worst masks the problem.
> 
> I do not use shock collars as yet I have had no need - but if it was a choice about saving a dog's life in an unrgent situation or my dog losing its life, e.g. to a snake bite, I would use aversion therapy but I too would call in a professinal trainer.
> 
> ...


*GREAT post Suzie!*


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

You say about professionals...UK - Martin Deeley the trainer (IACP) who features on Cesar's Leadership series "Sit and Stay Cesar's Way" where Cesar brings in trainers to compliment leadership. Though he works USA he is a well respected all over the world.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Suzie.C. said:


> Like Cesar I do not train dogs, my pack of 14 dogs follow my lead out of respect for me their leader, we live as one pack - we have calm energy in our environment and my dogs no longer have problems. My pack are far from helpless but at least 2 here used to be redzone and now recovered - let the dogs speak by their actions I say - fear is gone, aggression a thing of the past, peace restored and chaos left behind - that iis Cesar's Way.
> Suzie


Can i ask how u got ur dogs to respect u and see u as the leader?


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi there and well done to you for teaching your dogs not to do this chasing, but all I am asking for is a little understanding of those who do not have the luxury ot time to save a dogs life - here we have snakes that kill, I have used aversion therapy, though not the Ecollar as I am not experienced in the use of, to stop my dogs going near a part of the grounds where these snakes are. The only other option at the time to save their lives, many dogs killed here by snakes, would have been to restrict movement - their freedom, and that is not acceptable to me as an owner and dog lover I want to fulfll my pack while ensuring their safety.

I do not force my ways on others, consuequnces...discipline...or positive reinforcemnt, I coach and I guide but utimately the decison on how someone behaves is always up to that person...I cannot control people places and things...or snakes!

Please remember that "what we see on the TV" is just a tiny part of the consultation and rehab...I know how much more goes into the process. 

Why don't we focus on the positive....rather than the methods how about the philosophy as we are not there - we cannot know which is the best method to help the owners - we do not know the owners, we cannot know as we have not assessed the dog what is best to help the dog receover balance and stay safe from danger.

I always prefer to not use "aversion therapy" but it is an accpeted method of behaviour modification for the very fact that sometimes "there is an urgency" to communicate "stop" to a dog!


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Suzie.C. said:


> Hi there and well done to you for teaching your dogs not to do this chasing, but all I am asking for is a little understanding of those who do not have the luxury ot time to save a dogs life - here we have snakes that kill, I have used aversion therapy, though not the Ecollar as I am not experienced in the use of, to stop my dogs going near a part of the grounds where these snakes are. The only other option at the time to save their lives, many dogs killed here by snakes, would have been to restrict movement - their freedom, and that is not acceptable to me as an owner and dog lover I want to fulfll my pack while ensuring their safety.
> 
> I do not force my ways on others, consuequnces...discipline...or positive reinforcemnt, I coach and I guide but utimately the decison on how someone behaves is always up to that person...I cannot control people places and things...or snakes!
> 
> ...


oh, ur not from the uk then 

If u take on a dog then u should make time for it or else u shouldnt have took that dog in imo 

"Aversion therapy is a form of psychiatric, mental health or psychological treatment in which the patient is exposed to a stimulus while simultaneously being subjected to some form of discomfort. This conditioning is intended to cause the patient to associate the stimulus with unpleasant sensations in order to stop the specific behaviour."

Just incase someone doesnt know what averision therapy is. 

My dogs are under danger to run onto a street while running after a rabbit but still this wouldnt make me use a shock collar, only more precation is the key to success.

I dont want my dogs to be scared to chase, at the end of the day its their instinct and not bad behaviour :nono:


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi there - By raising my status not trying to go against DNA by lowering the dogs. I eared their respect - calm assertive energy is key, never angry or frustrated energy as they see this as weak energy and dogs won't follow weak energy. I have a clear pack structure where all dogs are my equal followers - this avoids any inter-dog fighting, they follow my rules, boundaries and limits. I use their language to communicate - not human words or training, it is all in the energy. I read Cesar's books to understand him then learned all I need to know as he does from the dogs themselves, I am open to learn new and continue to do so daily from my pack. I watch the "power of the pack" e.g. I just added in a young male foster dog with no problem, the pack taught most of the rules to this new dog, I followed some basic ways to communicate that I am Leader and his acceptance of my leadership was quick and all is well.

Truly it is the most natural of ways to live with our dogs in my opinion and experence, I have 14 dogs and we could not live in such wonderful peace any other way...they all live in the home with me...we share the pack den but I am alpha..I lead the way. I do not negotiate or bribe my dogs this they do not respect - they do respet clear consistent pack discipline (rules/boundaries/limits) and leadership energy and body language. A truly confident alpha dog does not use aggression to dominate - that would be insecure behaviour, my dogs know I am the dominant one in the relationship as I am Leader through my calm assertive energy and body language - just like how a confident high ranked dog communicates this to lower ranks without aggression. It's all in the Inter-Species Language of Energy.

"Be the pack leader" by Cesar is the most insightful of books that I have read, a pack can be one human - one dog or many dogs, many humans - one or many dogs.

Hope this helps a little more, Best wishes Suzie


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

I have time for all of my 14 dogs and am disappointed to hear such suggested to me that it maybe linked with lack of time from my part as this is so not true, and I am UK. The point I am making is that if they go near a snake they are dead - it is that simple, they have to "stop" and "now" I cannot take time with such a dangerous behaviour to have them learn more slowly this risk is too high, as you can and as I said I applaud you for this in your context it works for you, this has saved their lives. This is not about chasing when chasing is safe or measured as safe enough with precautions - there are times when "chasing is not safe" but a dog cannot know this so then it is not allowed - how it is not allowed depends upon the level of risk. As I say each to their own, but I would rather it not be suggested that it is due to lack of my time for my dogs - it is due to lack of time in realtime to teach that to go near a snake = major danger. I spend 24/7 with my dogs - they are a terrific pack. It is very rare that I use aversion, but to save a life then yes if the context is that serious and there is no other way to communicate in such an urgent situation, perhaps if you had seen what I have and a dog killed by chasing onto a road or by a snake then you may feel differently..or you may not but I am not going to judge either way or suggest that one does not have the time or shouldn't own a dog if exposing to such a risk, just that anyone needs to find what works for them and then that I conisder responsible as you are and show to us through your use of precautions, again I applaud this. I am sorry you feel this way from your post back to me, but to be clear I did not use a shock collar and for most cases in the main I agree with you it is about precaution or should I say of pack discipline around chase of "boundaries and limits" rather than any aversion.

I totally believe in fulfilling a breed to chase - but there has to be discipline around such an activity as dogs are in our domestic world where there are dangers they just do not understand. Regards Suzie


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## alphadog (Jan 29, 2009)

Suzie.C. said:


> there is a balance between discipline and reward in my opinion....but I cannot reward my way out of an aggressive mindset - the dog cannot hear/see me etc so a treat being offered to bribe the dog into wanted behaviour won't work - or at the very worst masks the problem.
> Suzie


I agree wholeheartedly with with your comments here and the wider context of pack leadership. Years ago I felt useless and very tearful because I was a dog owner who couldn't control her redzone rescue dog with a simple bribe. After consulting a Behaviourist and swotting up on pack leader principles everything slotted into place- Archie started to repect me and trust me, and things moved forward at an incredible pace. Don't get me wrong, I continued to use treats and clickers to fine tune his training and have done with my other dogs since, but if you have a problem dog with an unkown past simply wafting liver bread at him will not be enough! If Cesar gets the message across to just one family that they can improve their relationship with their dog, then that's OK with me. I've been there, living on the edge with a complex dog and training classes and all the patience in the world wouldn't have fixed Archie.

Cesar gets the LOVE HIM vote from me! "be the pack leader and remember to always excercise, discipline and affection"


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## P.Petstop (Jan 31, 2009)

Love him. Had loads of really useful tips for running my business from him! Great!


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi, I too had a rescue to me who was redzone - now "redzone" is not just aggression - it is intent to do harm/kill, this dog is still alive and well now today thanks to the inspriation from Cesar - he is now a balanced pack member his dog-dog aggression rehabilitated so that he can indeed live with 13 other dogs - now this is what I call success, he runs with the pack, he rests with the pack and plays with the pack, no "learned helplessness " for this Terrier just "recovery" and one contented dog who will still "just be Terrier" yet respects me! - For those who doubt - if he was "learned hepless" he could not live in tune in a pack having had dog-dog aggression without major constraints...and I could not live that way in my home my dogs are not kennelled.

Cesar's fulfillment formula "exercise and discipline" then affection fits perfectly! Discipline is to set rules, boundaries and limits in a way a dog understands, not human way but do ways. There is so much more to Cesar - he is instinctive, he is in touch with nature, he is in tune with dogs - his books so full of insight and care. After a day following exercise and discipline I love my evenings resting and sharing all the affection I have to offfer with my pack as I am a total dog lover too. Take a read of "member of the family" - this book in parts had me very emotional he loves dogs and is so very thoughtful even when it is time for a dog to leave us and depart this world - he even helps owenrs understand such a difficult time and how to move-on into the here and now...what a gift if we wish to take it he has given to us humans and dog owners.

Cesar does not give-up on dogs either - if the owners cannot follow the way to balance their dog, then there are such dogs who then go to Cesar's psychology centre to have the chance of balance and live as part of his pack - they are not just to be put to sleep, how many other professionals do this and actually take on the dog themselves...saving lives?

As I said at the start - not all aggression is redzone so other methods can and do work, but when it is redzone if you have experienced this or even seen it then it takes much more than posititve to rehabilitate - the dog needs to respect that such behaviour is unaccpetable to the leader, and then directed to what to do instead which is then positively reinforced. This pack leader way is not just Cesar's Way, though his philosophy he has made his own, Jan Fennell and many others talk of being the leader and some talk of being the boss - though this I do not so much agree with, I prefer to lead by example than force. Dogs can and do recover from redzone behaviour - if we humans give them the opportunity to with professional help, but then many won't help such dogs preferring to end the dogs life and get rid of the problem, even many rescues,...so thank goodness we have Cesar who will and some "no kill" rescues here in the UK too.

I will help dogs forever...I don't give up, I find a way...nothing changes if nothing changes ... so I for one will make changes so dogs can recover and help owners build lasting bonds with their dogs leading all to balance. lol. Suzie


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

I am interested to hear you are a behaviourist Suzie - like I said I have not come across any animal behaviourists who endorse CM methods in the UK. Out of interst, where did you study?
Also, I am intrigued by your comments that we have snakes that kill in the UK, since I thought all snakes in this country were relatively harmless


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi there, We are in Norfolk at the beach - there are Adders which will come into the gardens in summer and one has to watch out for the dunes on the beaches where I know of dogs who have lost their lives too. It is a garden incident I am referring to that gave me a "split second" to teach my dogs to stay away else a life would have been lost for sure. Now all my dogs alert me to "snake" with a bark and backing off - thank goodness, then they get positive reinforcemnt for a job well done!

I study all the time, I trained with the Canine Behaviour Centre first, and am currently doing other courses which are "degree level qualified". Though as I always say the best teachers are my pack - they show me how they discipline eachother, how they communicate what is not OK and what is - the rules, boundaries and limits, how they share affection, how they love to exercise and the list goes on 

I have worked cases of "females fighting" which many behaviourists will tell you cannot be rehabed so one dog has to leave the pack - rehomed, well they can - and have successfully by the humans becoming leaders so no vacancy for females to fight over! Others are dog-dog aggression, fear aggression, again people told for years cannot be chnaged - now has been changed and those dogs recovering from their fear well - my dogs helped on these ones!

I get quite a few "last chance" dogs when all methods seem to have failed, some have stayed with the pack here and some have rehabilitated and stayed with owners.

I never give-up, this inspriation comes from Cesar. Cesar's way is a philosophy for living with our dogs, the methods are just that ...methods..all behaviourists and trainers use methods...very few methods are new and some are very old, some we agree with some we don't, the main one I do not agree with is "angry human energy" or "frustration"..or attacking a dog ....calm/assertive is just right IMHO. Much is down to perception e.g. "to say No to a dog" could be described as "positive punishment"- adding something the dog doesn't like to stop them doing something or for example "time-out" (which incidentally Cesar does not use) is "negative punishment" - taking away something the dog likes e.g. the human's company.

I learn something new from my pack of animals everyday, I just want to save lives - animals and humans too, we can all live together in balance - my dogs show me this each day. Good to meet you, lol.


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## alphadog (Jan 29, 2009)

I think it is Cesar's natural instinctive understanding of dogs that concerns his opposers - Cesar has the ability, the life-long experience and the confidence to treat dogs that traditional trainers have been unsuccessful with and as such he is pushing the boundaries in every respect and as we all know, not method suits every dog. Having listened to many people chatting about the DW I feel that their concerns (correct me if I'm wrong!)are that novice dog owners will try to replicate his techniques (the two finger move for eg) without the substance and a behavioural program to back up these actions. No doubt counter productive. However, I would urge Cesar's doubters to assume that people watching the show are able to read the very clear disclaimers on screen and that most people are wise enough to understand that TV producers edit hours and hours worth of footage to create tea-time drama and that the occasional 'ttssh' is not the sole reason the dog has been rehabilitated- throughout the DW shows Cesar and the voice over talk about Cesar re-visiting the client after weeks of following his rehabilitation program and on occasion the dog spending time in the psych centre. At no point does he promote quick fixes and from most of what I have seen he does not promote aversion therapy either, he always interrupts the behaviour before the red mist sets in - creating boundaries


Suzie - Archie had a whole host of issues which I only discovered during the first week or so after his adoption, including acute separation anxiety, dog aggression, small animal aggression, domination toward me and family, eating faeces, running away, poor traveller to name a few - you'd have loved that case lol !!!


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## alphadog (Jan 29, 2009)

Suzie.C. said:


> I have worked cases of "females fighting" which many behaviourists will tell you cannot be rehabed so one dog has to leave the pack - rehomed, well they can - and have successfully by the humans becoming leaders so no vacancy for females to fight over!


I had two female dogs with inter-bitch aggression, after I consulted my behaviourist pal I realised that the problem was down to me - I'd allowed the pack leader in me to slip. I tightened up and there wasn't another fight. Proof if ever it was needed!


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

Part of the problem with any training and method is that anyone can call themself a "behaviourist". I could decide to be one tomorrow, and impart any advice I desired...
The sooner it becomes a regulated profession, the better, really.


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

I agree that there should be a form of regulation, I have certificates to show I have studied the science - but dog psychology is not an exact science! We would need to "allow" for those who learn through many different ways e.g the dogs themselves. So this is where I think referral is also important, as is consultation to see the behaviourist with their own dogs showing the way forward, becuase for me my dogs provide "the seeing is believeing" and for others who want them I also have the certificates. A piece of paper is not hard to get that does not mean one can work to rehabilitate dogs successfully, Cesar does not have a piece of paper but he clearly can and does communicate successfully with dogs, would one rather he did not becuase of the lack of a "certificate" - no not for me personally, the method of regulation should not IMO be based upon the ability to pass a written exam showing one understands the science does not necessarily mean they have the "energy" and "instinct" to help dogs - dogs are not such objects of science, they are quite simply another species of mammal...like us - all individual. For those of us "trying to save lives" the fees charged are ploughed right back into saving lives...not designer homes etc! I personally also do a great deal of voluntary work. IMO - I hope they do regulate us in a respectful/appropriate manner as anyone who is really all about helping dogs to recovery and not giving up on any dog would welcome this.


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## Freya'n'Sassy (Aug 13, 2008)

I LOVE Cesar!!! Not only do I think he is brilliant with dogs and their dippy owners, but I also think he is gorgeous! I think people need to remember that there are things that are the "norm" in America that we would never agree to over here, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Cesar is a natural leader with dogs.

I have heard people saying he is cruel to dogs in the past, but that is aload of twoddle, the dogs wouldn't react to him like they do if he was cruel, they just know he is their boss. Someone somewhere said about him kicking a dog when he had just dabbed it with his foot.... Something I have tried to do (and nearly fallen over!) when walking my youngest. If people were more strict with their dogs (and kids) there wouldn't be half the problems that there are. I live with 5 dog.... Well 4 bitches and 1 dog, something I was told you can't do as the bitches will fight and kill each other! I don't have any problems here, because the dogs know I rule the roost not them!


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2009)

Well im watching Cesar now and i think he is doing a great job. Very effective and very quick results. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## goldendance (Jan 23, 2009)

I LOVE LOVE LOVE CESAR, ive watched most of his shows and ive got all his books, [love reading them] i think hes a good behavourist whos willing to try and solve any situation,ive mostly trained my dogs the ceasar millan way and what a turn around that was,
im his no 1 fan and thats it [and i wont kick him out of my bed either]he he:001_wub::001_wub::001_wub:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> Well im watching Cesar now and i think he is doing a great job. Very effective and very quick results. :thumbup::thumbup:


*Go on admit it.aint he sexy! pmsl*


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## goldendance (Jan 23, 2009)

well as you asked ????? i think he would know how to show a bitch a good time?? he he :thumbup:


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Go on admit it.aint he sexy! pmsl*


He's ok i guess...lol  
Certainly good at what he does.


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi all, I am recognised as the UK Ambassador - Cesar Millan Ambassador, because I understand his philosphpy and how he is trying to help all us dog owners - responsibly he always talks of the need to consult with a professional to rehab unwanted behaviour. He shows us that there is a big difference between human and dog psychology - this imo is to be applauded, the reality is dogs are being saved thanks to Cesar's Way and those who have read his books know too of his philosophy not just dog rehab methods seen on the shows, he helps the humans too. I thank those of you who support the way to balance and are open to learning from our dogs themselves, as Cesar is. IMO to "redirect a dog" with calm assertive energy is helping a dog to move-on, to do the same with angry or frustrated energy is to harm a dog, Cesar does not harm dogs he saves lives ...just ask the owners, I have, or read the follow-ups in the "Ultimate Episode Guide".


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

goldendance said:


> well as you asked ????? i think he would know how to show a bitch a good time?? he he :thumbup:


lol as long as he didnt do that silly face when he is discribing an excited dog. Or kept saying no touch no talk no eye contact lol


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

I agree independent assessment is essential in this field. The behaviourists I know will only work on vet referral and are all members of the relevant professional bodies (APBC, CCAB etc). I am not sure it is neccessary to have a "pack" of dogs, or even a single dog to be a good behaviourist though. Clients should be able to do the seeing is believing bit as the behaviourist visits them and assesses their dog. 
I am still of the firm belief that "aversive therapy" is not an appropriate wayto train a dog, or any other animal, and that positive reinforcement is a far better way forward. 
And as for CM being sexy... really????


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2009)

k2k9dogs said:


> Also, whomever posted about snakes... I have seen every single Dog Whisperer episode several times apiece (I like to watch them more than once) and I have never seen anything about snakes. Are you sure you're not confusing his show with some other show?


I saw the show about snakes this week. It was Jada Pinkett Smiths dogs.

EURweb.com - JADA PINKETT SMITH HIRES DOG WHISPERER: Cesar Millan called in after actress' dog killed by a snake.


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## Lhasalover (Jan 15, 2009)

Love him, love him, love him ( ssssshhhhhhh don't tell hubby) 

I would marry him 2morrow I think hes the best thing since slice bread.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Suzie.C. said:


> I have time for all of my 14 dogs and am disappointed to hear such suggested to me that it maybe linked with lack of time from my part as this is so not true, and I am UK. The point I am making is that if they go near a snake they are dead - it is that simple, they have to "stop" and "now" I cannot take time with such a dangerous behaviour to have them learn more slowly this risk is too high, as you can and as I said I applaud you for this in your context it works for you, this has saved their lives. This is not about chasing when chasing is safe or measured as safe enough with precautions - there are times when "chasing is not safe" but a dog cannot know this so then it is not allowed - how it is not allowed depends upon the level of risk. As I say each to their own, but I would rather it not be suggested that it is due to lack of my time for my dogs - it is due to lack of time in realtime to teach that to go near a snake = major danger. I spend 24/7 with my dogs - they are a terrific pack. It is very rare that I use aversion, but to save a life then yes if the context is that serious and there is no other way to communicate in such an urgent situation, perhaps if you had seen what I have and a dog killed by chasing onto a road or by a snake then you may feel differently..or you may not but I am not going to judge either way or suggest that one does not have the time or shouldn't own a dog if exposing to such a risk, just that anyone needs to find what works for them and then that I conisder responsible as you are and show to us through your use of precautions, again I applaud this. I am sorry you feel this way from your post back to me, but to be clear I did not use a shock collar and for most cases in the main I agree with you it is about precaution or should I say of pack discipline around chase of "boundaries and limits" rather than any aversion.
> 
> I totally believe in fulfilling a breed to chase - but there has to be discipline around such an activity as dogs are in our domestic world where there are dangers they just do not understand. Regards Suzie


Sorry u took what i said personal...it was meant as an overall statement 

I am glad to hear u spend 24/7 with ur dogs but how that is possible would interest me...but maybe u take them all with u shopping, sleeping or to the cinema  (thats only a joke, im in weird mood atm  )

Anyway, back to subject....we dont have dangerous snakes in the uk but we do have dangerous situations such as dogs chasing cars, dogs chewing cables, dogs being aggressive towards other dogs and thats only a few examples to give and noone of this examples im sure people would stick on a shock collar to save their lifes.... (even though im sure it would stop the behaviour very fast  ) ... would u?

I dont agree to train a dog with painfull methods and i never will agree to it.

Precautions i used was to keep my dogs on a lead when i knew there are rabbits about...simple. (and im not talking about snakes here as cesar milan used shock collars or prong collars not only on the snake situations) If u know ur dog will be likely to chase cars im sure u would keep it on a lead too instead of putting a shock or prong collar on?

Im not arguing here, i just believe that we as humans should be more clever than frightening an animal not to do something. But then again, the reward way takes longer than the "aversive therapy" and thats what people are looking for...quick solutions.


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## TravCat (Jan 24, 2009)

Natik said:


> I dont agree to train a dog with painfull methods and i never will agree to it.
> 
> Precautions i used was to keep my dogs on a lead when i knew there are rabbits about...simple. (and im not talking about snakes here as cesar milan used shock collars or prong collars not only on the snake situations) If u know ur dog will be likely to chase cars im sure u would keep it on a lead too instead of putting a shock or prong collar on?
> 
> Im not arguing here, i just believe that we as humans should be more clever than frightening an animal not to do something. But then again, the reward way takes longer than the "aversive therapy" and thats what people are looking for...quick solutions.


This is exactly my thoughts on the matter. No aimed at anyone, but the majority of problems arise from people not putting in the required time and effort with their dogs, and by the time they need a solution, they need it now. I totally agree about keeping it on a lead - that's what needs to be done if you have a chasing dog, until such a time as the dog is retrained, using methods that take into account the dog's welfare.


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi, My husband does the shopping....and If I do go out to work then we have a sitter...dogs always have a leader here is what I meant 

UK does have adders - I have seen them and the animals they have killed on the dunes here.

I never use aversion therapy to be a "quick cure", as I said over that this is incident specific to save a life needed to be done within a split second. Thereafter positive methods are used to keep the new behaviour alive, so the old does gradually become extinct. Aversion Therpay does not acheive this, but aversion therapy is not about causing or inflicting pain in my experience, as I say I personally do not use shock collars, there are plenty of other methods to add the "surprise element" - back to adding something the dog does not like to stop the acting-out in a dangerous moment, but the whole point is that it does not actually hurt the dog by making physical contact. Also it does not last...there is no "cure" part so that is why further methods of positive are used once the initial danger has subsided.

I do not have the experience with shock collars to make comment - though I do see that the trainer on the DW show used the exact measure on his arm first...interesting but again I cannot judge from a TV screen...

Sorry I can't explain any more clearly than this, but I also think it is best not to use aversion therapy whereever possible I avoid it as so many think of it as a cure when it is not. There are "no quick cures" - rehab is a process of change and nothing changes if nothing changes. I would never "scare" my dog into doing something for me i would ruin my bond and respect/trust would be gone so pointless, this just masks the problem and it is likely to either reoccur with more intensity or escalate the behaviour at the time.

As I say aversion therapy alone will not work for good - it is not a quick fix, it is for me only a way to stop a dog being killed in my garden when the snake came in and from then on we have worked positive reinforcement to make sure my dogs will leave snakes alone, and "yes" these are the adders.

I am not trying to persuade anyone - each to their own is what I believe in, I just try to show how I understand different methods, not voting for or against because I do not know everyones unique situation, so I do not judge. I too think it is far better to take responsible precuations to the level of risk, not quick get-out options.

So I agree with you, no painful methods and the aversion therapy I use is about adding surprise and a tool that acts as a "NO" but does not come into direct contact with the dog, I guess you could say the surprise element could be painful like if we jump becuase we here a loud noise - but then one would need to say that even the "no" command is adding pain... unfortunately I know people I see out and about who use "mental" harmful methods like shouting with angry energy at their dogs, not aimed at anyone here, just showing that not all "pain" for a dog is physical, much is psychological like reinforcing a fear and keeping that dog stuck in the fearful context is harmful to in my opinion. It really I guess depends upon our definition of pain, and once again each to their own, like a friend of mine will never tell her dog "no" as she says it harms her dog - well so be it I have no argument with any on this, it is personal choice, but I also hope that others respect that I do have rules for my dogs in their pack structure but they are never ever hurt, that would go against my nature and love for my animals...and there are many here!....I even don't want to hurt that dealy snake! lol.


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## GWPLady (Jan 28, 2009)

The episode was about aversion to rattlesnakes. A professional trainer did the training (using the ecollar) to teach the dogs to avoid rattle snakes. Jada Pinkett Smith's malamute mix was bitten and nearly died, i believe he did die months later possibly from a complication from the effects of the bite.

Many, most of my friends with GWP's in CA, NV, AZ do this training with their dogs, as they are in situations say field events constantly that need this training. A buzz or tone is usually all the dog needs to avert their attention.

One of my Board member's dog was bitten last month while out in the field. It was a Sunday, (of course) as no vets were open. She was bitten...he did get her to emergency but was a drive. She is doing well now, but could have lost her. Rattle Snakes are here also in Kansas....we have not run into them while exploring, but have had 2 family members get bitten while working in their yards.


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## Suzie.C. (Jan 27, 2009)

Sorry - I meant to say "no painful training methods" - agreed I do not use. Rehab is not training, with the best will in the world "training an addicted person say "not to drink" is not the same as rehab...it is less likely to last in my experience. With Rehab no pain is ever intended and so why only calm/assertive energy is vital IMO, intended is only recovery and help - for example an addicted person recovering in a rehab unit does go though some mental/physical pain first to stop the addiction but the consultants and staff intend help nou hurt....then some form of positive reinforcemenet for the person such as aftercare to stay recovered - the new life behaviour replaces the old and balance is restored, peace achieved...just for today...."like Cesar's living in the now".lol.


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## lianne86 (Jan 10, 2009)

im watching cesar right this moment!!! i think he's great at what he does..but everyone has there own thoughts on him.... our Puppy Kya loves it!


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

i think cesar is great. he is very good to dogs that would other wise be PTS or given away. 
the only times he uses a e-collar is in dangerous situations and he shows you it on his arm first to prove it just makes them jump, not hurt them. he used the e-collar on daddy with the snake, if he hadn' t a snake in the grass could possibly kill him! and the dog that bit the tractor tyres, it was a farm dog, it needed to be able to run loose(the other option would be for it to be tied up or shut inside), it had been run over 3 times, lost an eye because of it, if they hadnt have used the collar and got a drastic result, that dog could also have been killed by the owners tractor as he couldnt see it.

its a choice between a shock to scare the dog away or the dog being killed, i know what i would choose in that situation.

i generally dont like the e-collars and would never use one on mine unless it was life or death as in these cases, or in the case of someone i know, the dog(he is a rescue gsd) had already attacked one of her horses(ripped all its face, had to have stitches) in the field and it was put a e-collar on it and spook it away from the fences(within a few days she just needed the command) or put the electric fence on around the paddock which would hurt alot more(the dog and possibly the horse, and her kids)

i think he does whatever he thinks is best and having tried a couple of his methods, i think he does a good job 2. 

*Heidi*


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2009)

The thing with shock collars is they can work one of two ways dependant on the dog, and how the dog reacts wrt Fight or flight. Some dogs will experiance the shock and run away from it, and back to the owners. Others will go into fight mode - and potentially turn from being just overly interested to full on aggressive towards whatever it was they arent supposed to be near in the future.

I know someone who used a collar to make a dog avoid livestock, and now the dog is 10times worse around them, because he sees it as a threat, and will actively charge at them, whereas before it was just harmless interest.

So i dont think they should EVER be used, because you simply cannot predict how a dog will react and you could inflame a situation. They are too open to abuse, and i dont think it should be televised Cesar using that method. Alot of people watch him and follow his methods and it could lead to alot of bad situations.

There are always other methods to train dogs in those types of situations - if you cant control it otherwise they shouldnt be put in them in the first place.

I cant comment on how he deals with highly aggressive dogs and real problem dogs as I wouldnt know how to deal with them myself.


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## amason (Feb 11, 2009)

love him :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1: but why do people hate him?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

amason said:


> love him :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1: but why do people hate him?


Probably because he is so basic...no excuses he just goes in and sorts the problem out...Yep i'm a great fan of cesar i think he works wonders.xxxxxxx


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2009)

I Love Him


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## bourne to be wild (Mar 2, 2009)

cesar millan is soooooo sexy i am addicted to the dog whisperer, if brad pitt george clooney and cesar millan were all in a room id beline for cesar any day, i love his energy, spirit , intentions for people and dogs, and he is sooooo damn cute,i love the guy, being confident and a natural leader is always sexy and attractive, he has an amazing smile, the way he carries himself for sure makes him attractive to the opposite sex of course you see this very obviously on his show how the women owners are attracted to him and the guys also all respect and admire him, hes a cool cool guy im very glad i discovered his show because his energie has touched my life and made a difference even if he does send me nuts in the pants department at the same time love ya cesar xxxxxxxx


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## hari1 (Aug 10, 2008)

Most definately do not like him hes a showman and he knows how to play to the people but I would not like to be the dog he is so called training!! People are blinded by his charisma and dashing smile especially women it seems!!!!


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## GWPLady (Jan 28, 2009)

Most of the dogs on the show are last chance dogs that the owners have been told by trainers there is no hope and to euthanize the pet. Death is final, Cesar offers hope and a chance to live. Martin Deeley has worked with Cesar, knows him well, and has commented on the gift he has with the animals. I have seen him up close and personal at seminars, and he is a very kind, gentle man. His foundation helps rescues and shelters such as mine with funding to help rehabilitate our rescue dogs/pups. 

I use his methods on some of the most challenging cases, with very good results. I am experienced with out breed, and can read the animals pretty well. We use the exercise, discipline (obedience), and then affection formula. We set rules boundaries, and limitations. We also use treats to gain trust. 
We use common sense, and use what works for us in a humane, kind way. I like cesar's Books, DVd's, Ilusion collar, and products. I think he has saved so many dogs, and helped us all to understand that a dog needs fulfillment.

Mary:thumbup1:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

hari1 said:


> Most definately do not like him hes a showman and he knows how to play to the people but I would not like to be the dog he is so called training!! People are blinded by his charisma and dashing smile especially women it seems!!!!


*Cesar doesn't say he "trains" dogs, he rehabilitates them...*


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## Huskylover (Feb 27, 2009)

love him!!!


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## ChrisTheGerbilGuy (Aug 9, 2008)

He's great and my gf thinks he's hot lol


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## TerryS (Jan 27, 2009)

Cesar Millan REHABILITATES dogs that would otherwise be euthanized. How many times does this have to be drilled into the heads of the positive-only trainers? Cesar Millan does NOT train dogs. He rehabilitates them. Let me repeat that so that the densest among us can understand: Cesar Millan does not train dogs. He rehabilitates dogs that would otherwise be killed. Your dog chases cars? Chases snakes? I'm pretty sure that if you say something like "come here fido and I'll give you a nice piece of steak," your dog would not even bother to look at you.

Buzz him good - not necessarily even zap him - and he'll stop, surprised, and try to figure out what it was that DISTRACTED him from his prey. That's the tool Cesar uses most of the time: distraction. Sometimes he uses corrections, sometimes he uses treats, but at all times, his goal is to distract the dog from whatever it's doing and present it with a more desirable objective.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

bourne to be wild said:


> cesar millan is soooooo sexy i am addicted to the dog whisperer, if brad pitt george clooney and cesar millan were all in a room id beline for cesar any day, i love his energy, spirit , intentions for people and dogs, and he is sooooo damn cute,i love the guy, being confident and a natural leader is always sexy and attractive, he has an amazing smile, the way he carries himself for sure makes him attractive to the opposite sex of course you see this very obviously on his show how the women owners are attracted to him and the guys also all respect and admire him, hes a cool cool guy im very glad i discovered his show because his energie has touched my life and made a difference even if he does send me nuts in the pants department at the same time love ya cesar xxxxxxxx


lol...love it....made me laugh.  :lol:

As for my own opinion...i have already said on previous threads he is great at what he does. The fact he saves so many dogs from being put to sleep is yet another testament to his abilities where all else has failed. :thumbup:


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## Varkhond (Mar 1, 2009)

I don't hate nor love him. But i do have alot of respect for hes methods, and idolise hes skills. :thumbup:


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## bourne to be wild (Mar 2, 2009)

*go Cesar Go Cesar Go Cesarxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx*PS.... HATE IS A VERY STRONG WORD ,YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE GUY, BUT IF YOU HATE HIM I THINK YOU NEED TO SEE A THERAPIST AND DEAL WITH SOME ISSUES!!!LOVE YA CESAR X


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## bourne to be wild (Mar 2, 2009)

*go Cesar Go Cesar Go Cesar, Hate Is A Very Strong Word,like Him Or Not, Agree Or Disagree,i Dont Think Cesar Has Ever Done Anything Ive Heard Of To Hate Him,i Think He's Grrrrrrreat!!*


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## pets4life (Jul 10, 2008)

Cesar Millan is a perfect example of how our society "judges" a person with prejudice and with bias, without knowledge or fact to back up their judgement.

Those in the animal welfare industry who do not approve of Cesar's Way, are also those who have not studied his work, his life, or his philosophy. Most judgements are passed with a mere 1-3 partially viewed episodes of _The Dog Whisperer_ by people who proclaim to have spent years in the business. These are the same people who are not open to learning anything new and can not conduct themselves without indifference.

It's very sad that these are the very same people that pet owners turn to for help as well, only to be charged hundreds of dollars to learn, but unable to implement on their own what they _did_ learn leaving pet owner and canine at odds. Many times, trainers are unsuccessful with pet owners and the dogs wind up in a shelter and/or euthanized.

At the same time, these are also the same people who tell pet owners to "return the dog" from whence it came, (most of the time causing it's death) and/or they simply turn them away and refuse training efforts altogether.

Cesar teaches anyone who wants to learn how to be a leader to their dog, regardless of their social economic background, their race, their gender, their personalities, their abilities and their experience. He does this without _*ever*_ criticizing another's methods or ways...he does this by example.

He is a true example of how our leaders in the animal welfare industry _should_ conduct themselves. A lesson many trainers could learn, if they so desired to open their minds.


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## turkeylad (Mar 1, 2009)

Why such strong options - he has a way with dogs not always the way &#304; would do things but surely anyone who promotes positive training methods has to be taken into account.


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## pets4life (Jul 10, 2008)

Spoken by a true, open minded dog lover, who sees the good in those who try and save lives. Thank you.


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## turkeylad (Mar 1, 2009)

As a nebie to site - what do &#304; have to do to be allowed to vote on polls.


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## ChrisTheGerbilGuy (Aug 9, 2008)

turkeylad said:


> As a nebie to site - what do İ have to do to be allowed to vote on polls.


The poll is closed


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## Helen S (Mar 3, 2009)

LOVE HIM!!!!!!:blushing:


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## peklove (Jan 27, 2009)

I have finally seen his show and I must say I love it! People come to him when nothing else works. He's helped many people with their dogs. A lot of the dogs would have been put down due to their aggression and he shows us how to discipline them. I think he has a lot of love for animals that's why he's doing the show. I hope his show stays on forever.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

pets4life said:


> Cesar Millan is a perfect example of how our society "judges" a person with prejudice and with bias, without knowledge or fact to back up their judgement.
> 
> Those in the animal welfare industry who do not approve of Cesar's Way, are also those who have not studied his work, his life, or his philosophy. Most judgements are passed with a mere 1-3 partially viewed episodes of _The Dog Whisperer_


I can assure you my views on CM were based on far more then a few hugely edited episodes of a programme that was produced to appeal to the masses.
Infact I had hardly seen CM on TV when posting this poll.
I will say though my opinions of him have somewhat softened since sitting down to watch him, you could almost say 'he's grown on me!

but I still maintain there are far far better trainers (or whatever you want to call him Jan)out there then CM - always have been - always will be!
DT


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## Badfish (Mar 4, 2009)

I have little to say about him. He is what he is. If it works for you it works for you. But don't try and alpha roll my dogs because you watched one episode of the Dog Whisperer. You may not get hurt by the dog. But I certainly will clog you one.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*lol i've watched FAR more than one episode...and still think he's brilliant.:thumbup::thumbup:*


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## pets4life (Jul 10, 2008)

AJ said:


> Hate is such a strong word but it suits Cesar so perfectly!


Comments like these only show the ignorance of a human being...passing judgement on someone one hasn't met nor taken the time to get to know.

_Be kind to your enemies...you *made* them!_


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## pets4life (Jul 10, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I can assure you my views on CM were based on far more then a few hugely edited episodes of a programme that was produced to appeal to the masses.
> Infact I had hardly seen CM on TV when posting this poll.
> I will say though my opinions of him have somewhat softened since sitting down to watch him, you could almost say 'he's grown on me!
> 
> ...


Since Cesar isn't a trainer, and never has proclaimed to be a trainer, perhaps you misunderstand what it is he actually does?

The interesting part about Cesar Millan is he supports "all ways that do not bring harm to the dog.". Can trainers say that?


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## pets4life (Jul 10, 2008)

Sad to see comments in the 21st century with such ignorance and venom, even in jest.


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## pets4life (Jul 10, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I can assure you my views on CM were based on far more then a few hugely edited episodes of a programme that was produced to appeal to the masses.
> Infact I had hardly seen CM on TV when posting this poll.
> I will say though my opinions of him have somewhat softened since sitting down to watch him, you could almost say 'he's grown on me!
> 
> ...


Perhaps he grows on you because he's a genunine person who truly cares about the dogs. And he spends his time with the dogs, not bashing others who try and save lives as well? Just a thought!

As far as "better trainers"...I'm not a "trainer" fan. I think many dog trainers are asking the dog to do more of what the HUMAN wants, instead of fulfilling the dog's needs and achieving a wanted behavior through that. There's a HUGE difference.


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## TerryS (Jan 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I can assure you my views on CM were based on far more then a few hugely edited episodes of a programme that was produced to appeal to the masses.
> 
> In fact I had hardly seen CM on TV when posting this poll.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely 100% right... but that's because, as I said before, Cesar is not a trainer.

The only parts of each episode that are edited are the sections where Cesar is talking to the owners. The film crew arrives first and sets up their equipment. Cesar comes into the situation cold. And the producer and a team member have told us that the sessions with the dogs are not edited unless otherwise specified on the show. Jim Milio says dogs start responding to Cesar in as little as two minutes.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2009)

pets4life said:


> The interesting part about Cesar Millan is he supports "all ways that do not bring harm to the dog.". Can trainers say that?


Is this assumption based on fact, or just what you have seen from many hours of filming that is grossly edited to give you a 30 minute slot like?? just curious!
You are shown only what they want you to see ! I am not going through the CM argument again!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I see he got 70% of the vote..:thumbup::thumbup:*


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2009)

Yep Jan - your man sure pulled em in!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Yep Jan - your man sure pulled em in!


*haha Sue i knew he would with me on his side. even you said he's growing on ya...lol xxxxxxx*


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *haha Sue i knew he would with me on his side. even you said he's growing on ya...lol xxxxxxx*


Well his knashers match mine Jan!!! reckon we could have a fair bit in common afterall - we could use the same dentist


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## scattyk (Jan 2, 2009)

I have to say......those teeth are amazing!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well his knashers match mine Jan!!! reckon we could have a fair bit in common afterall - we could use the same dentist


*God sue i'll be so jealous if you meet him in the waiting room.But if you do please pass on my details.pmsl*


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## StaffieEllie (Mar 4, 2009)

I really like cesar.. am i the only one? LOL even though ive tried a few of the things he does on my dog.. and lets just say it dont work as good.. How does he do it?


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## bella7 (Feb 1, 2009)

I just love him! got 'The Dog Whisperer' Sky+ so I don't miss a show!


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## TerryS (Jan 27, 2009)

StaffieEllie said:


> I really like cesar.. am i the only one? LOL even though ive tried a few of the things he does on my dog.. and lets just say it dont work as good.. How does he do it?


Maybe the problem is that you don't have the calm, confident, assertive energy Cesar has? His philosophy works great with my dogs, but I have to admit that I have all of his books and his Mastering Leadership DVD series and watch all of his shows. It wasn't until I grasped the concept of his energy that I was able to really work with my dogs the Cesar Way. I DO use positive reinforcement when I'm training the dogs, to be sure, but when I was rehabilitating the dogs to keep them from trying to eat all the neighbor dogs, I used Cesar's Way. It's all in the energy!


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## savannah (Feb 25, 2009)

Well, I am defo a fan of cesar milan. 
I think he is brilliant and the way he gets the dogs to do just as he wants is brill. 
My 11yr old daughter watches him on tv with me, and even she has the saying "no touch, no talk, no eye contact" stuck in her head!!

Have just ordered his Member of the family book too :thumbup:


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## P.Petstop (Jan 31, 2009)

Well I think Cesar is a great dog behaviourist. I use some of his methods and love all his shows. In regards to them only showing us what they want us to see you should watch the new series and it might change your mind! A lot of his cases have tried everthing else to no avail and are at the end of their tether! Some dog trainers have no idea at all and I would go to Cesar for tips anytime!!!!!! My gsd would have turned out so much better in the first place if I had known about Cesars way then. The 2 so called dog trainers I used were useless!!


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Anyone who likes Cesar but needs a trainer in the UK (North West really) should check out Jim Greenwood. He specilises in working dogs (lurchers specifically) but does work with any dogs. He helped me removed Sidney's sheep killing tendencies (in 1 session!!!) and within 2 minutes of meeting Tiz he'd told me what I was doing wrong!!! He can read a dog within seconds and totally works along the lines of Cesar's type of methods.

Highly highly recommened!! Even if you just go along to one of his group sessions it's so interesting to watch.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JSR said:


> Anyone who likes Cesar but needs a trainer in the UK (North West really) should check out Jim Greenwood. He specilises in working dogs (lurchers specifically) but does work with any dogs. He helped me removed Sidney's sheep killing tendencies (in 1 session!!!) and within 2 minutes of meeting Tiz he'd told me what I was doing wrong!!! He can read a dog within seconds and totally works along the lines of Cesar's type of methods.
> 
> Highly highly recommened!! Even if you just go along to one of his group sessions it's so interesting to watch.


*I'm so glad you posted that,because so many people say some of the things Cesar does in a few mins, cannot be done...*


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I'm so glad you posted that,because so many people say some of the things Cesar does in a few mins, cannot be done...*


It was amazing!! He knew instantly what Sidney's character was and what our relationship was like!! He took Sidney off me, Sidney went into panic because he's attached to the hip with me! He asked me if I'd ever shouted or repremanded Sidney, I said I hadn't because he'd always been the perfect dog so never need it..apart from sheep worrying I could do anything with Sidney!! 
Jim walked him over the lambs (sheep and lambs were in enclosed area and Sid was on lead) and the instant and I mean the milli-second Sidney turned and his body language changed Jim just said NO firmly but not shouting but he altered his own body language to something Sidney understood as disapproval and I swear to god Sid hit the floor.

Jim bought him back to me, handed me the lead and told me to walk Sidney through the sheep pen, he made me walk confidently and holding myself tall...I couldn't get Sidney in through the gate!!! Honestly he was looking at everything but those sheep and since then I can walk him off lead through fields of sheep and he's totally relaxed!! The other day some elses dog chased a herd and usually Sidney would have lost it and gone too but he stopped, looked at the other dog and instantly came and heeled to me..without even being asked!!!!:thumbsup:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JSR said:


> It was amazing!! He knew instantly what Sidney's character was and what our relationship was like!! He took Sidney off me, Sidney went into panic because he's attached to the hip with me! He asked me if I'd ever shouted or repremanded Sidney, I said I hadn't because he'd always been the perfect dog so never need it..apart from sheep worrying I could do anything with Sidney!!
> Jim walked him over the lambs (sheep and lambs were in enclosed area and Sid was on lead) and the instant and I mean the milli-second Sidney turned and his body language changed Jim just said NO firmly but not shouting but he altered his own body language to something Sidney understood as disapproval and I swear to god Sid hit the floor.
> 
> Jim bought him back to me, handed me the lead and told me to walk Sidney through the sheep pen, he made me walk confidently and holding myself tall...I couldn't get Sidney in through the gate!!! Honestly he was looking at everything but those sheep and since then I can walk him off lead through fields of sheep and he's totally relaxed!! The other day some elses dog chased a herd and usually Sidney would have lost it and gone too but he stopped, looked at the other dog and instantly came and heeled to me..without even being asked!!!!:thumbsup:


*Great post, and well done.*


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## alfierat (Aug 10, 2008)

like him!.....


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