# Free Weight Watchers on the NHS.... Opinions??



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

GPs to prescribe £100 slimming courses for millions of obese patients | Mail Online

I think its a great idea, I know GPs have been giving free slimming world membership for a while but its good to see weight watchers are available now. Good news for future members


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm on week 10 of my free 12 weeks, I approached my GP about wanting to loose weight and they referred me to a weight loss service at the hospital, they organised the weight watchers. I have lost over 2st since starting 10 weeks ago, so I guess I'm in the good idea camp too , I will continue weight watchers after the 12 weeks runs out too.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> I'm on week 10 of my free 12 weeks, I approached my GP about wanting to loose weight and they referred me to a weight loss service at the hospital, they organised the weight watchers. I have lost over 2st since starting 10 weeks ago, so I guess I'm in the good idea camp too , I will continue weight watchers after the 12 weeks runs out too.


well done you!. Keep up the hard work. Its it a great feeling loosing weight?

I lost just over 3 stone with WW, Im at target weight now just need to tone up a little. Im a fan of WW and I think it does make you think about what you eat so hopefully its a life long change.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

yeah why not, there are programmes to help people quite drugs or smoking so why not put a bit of money into helping folk loose weight, I think it will save a lot of money in the long run.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

redroses2106 said:


> yeah why not, there are programmes to help people quite drugs or smoking so why not put a bit of money into helping folk loose weight, I think it will save a lot of money in the long run.


I totally agree. The DailyFail states the NHS spends £5.1billion a year treating obesity-related illnesses so something has got to change.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Being proactive is the way to go! Giving people whom are over weight the incentive and help to kickstart a healthy weightloss and eating regime will have so many long term benefits for all concerned.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

It's fine as long as it's not forced


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> It's fine as long as it's not forced


I agree, some GP have no tact or people skills, this could be quite upsetting for patients.

However that said, im sure the initial upset is better than developing cardiovascular disease as a result of obesity. I would rather be told im over weight than be told in the future my weight had significantly reduced my life. 
I read if someone with a BMI of 35 lost 5% of their body weight they would potentially add 8-10 years to their live!!!! (dont quote me, its another DailyFail gem)


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> I agree, some GP have no tact or people skills, this could be quite upsetting for patients.
> 
> However that said, im sure the initial upset is better than developing cardiovascular disease as a result of obesity. I would rather be told im over weight than be told in the future my weight had significantly reduced my life.
> I read if someone with a BMI of 35 lost 5% of their body weight they would potentially add 8-10 years to their live!!!! (dont quote me, its another DailyFail gem)


It's not about tact, I'm sure most overweight people know they are

It's just that some don't want to lose weight so shouldn't be forced to do weight watchers


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> It's not about tact, I'm sure most overweight people know they are
> 
> It's just that some don't want to lose weight so shouldn't be forced to do weight watchers


It is about tact, even if a person is overweight its still hurtful to be told especially if they visited the GP for other reasons and it get bought up as a contributing factor.
I agree not all want to loose weight. I guess the GP has a duty of care to offer advice and make them aware of the risks.

I have met very very few obese people that do not want to lose weight


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I think it's a great idea, funnily enough I'm in the middle of a health promotion essay on obesity so I think I will read up on this in more detail.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> It is about tact, even if a person is overweight its still hurtful to be told especially if they visited the GP for other reasons and it get bought up as a contributing factor.
> I agree not all want to loose weight. I guess the GP has a duty of care to offer advice and make them aware of the risks.
> 
> I have met very very few obese people that do not want to lose weight


I want to lose weight, I wouldn't want my GP referring me to WW or sw


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> It is about tact, even if a person is overweight its still hurtful to be told especially if they visited the GP for other reasons and it get bought up as a contributing factor.
> I agree not all want to loose weight. I guess the GP has a duty of care to offer advice and make them aware of the risks.
> 
> I have met very very few obese people that do not want to lose weight


When you are a fattie you could go for a poorly finger and it's because your fat lol (I am a fattie btw)

It's a great idea Imo, im trying to get them courage to go and ask for the same with slimming world as I know it works for me. Being referred will Make me go and make me do it as best as I can do, you can't quit it or skip classes either so makes you get your head in it


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

LostGirl said:


> When you are a fattie you could go for a poorly finger and it's because your fat lol (I am a fattie btw)
> 
> It's a great idea Imo, im trying to get them courage to go and ask for the same with slimming world as I know it works for me. Being referred will Make me go and make me do it as best as I can do, you can't quit it or skip classes either so makes you get your head in it


This is exactly what made me start loosing weight lol. I went to by GP because my thumbs were hurting, like a nerve pain 'shock like' when gripping things. I was told I had tendonitis and it was because I was over weight, and to go away and diet. Come back if when i lost weight it didnt go!. And in all honesty when I did lose weight it has improved(not gone)


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I have tendentious in my hands actually but oddly it's been better since being heavier, it was really bad when I was slimmer. Strange! 

I'm fat but healthy so far only issue I have is with my kidneys which is a lasting side effect of having Pre-eclampsia 3 times rather then purely my weight


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I agree with it being available but I think it should be for those that ask rather than GPs trying to prescribe it or force it on people. Also I don't believe that one size fits all, some people do lose weight following WW or SW but some don't, they never worked for me - the only thing that did was low carb, funnily enough though once I lost 2.5 stone WW did work and helped me shift the last half stone but no amount of exercise and calorie counting ever worked for me.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I agree with it being available *but I think it should be for those that ask rather than GPs trying to prescribe it or force it on people*. Also I don't believe that one size fits all, some people do lose weight following WW or SW but some don't, they never worked for me - the only thing that did was low carb, funnily enough though once I lost 2.5 stone WW did work and helped me shift the last half stone but no amount of exercise and calorie counting ever worked for me.


Agree with this

Even with with those at risk it should be up to the person themselves


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I think it is an excellent facility for those who find that the WW and SW models work for them.

I actually have a bit of an issue with the WW / SW idea in that they still seem to perpetuate unhealthy ways of viewing food and don't teach coping mechanisms that make it easy to move away from them and their ways of thinking. But if people are happy with the companies and with their methods then the referral scheme can only be good. The cynic in me sees it as a shrewd marketing move by WW and SW but&#8230;..


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Dogless said:


> I think it is an excellent facility for those who find that the WW and SW models work for them.
> 
> I actually have a bit of an issue with the WW / SW idea in that they still seem to perpetuate unhealthy ways of viewing food and don't teach coping mechanisms that make it easy to move away from them and their ways of thinking. But if people are happy with the companies and with their methods then the referral scheme can only be good. The cynic in me sees it as a shrewd marketing move by WW and SW but..


I'm interested in what way do they perpetuate unhealthy ways of viewing food?


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I think it's a fantastic idea, just like we support treatment for addictions with cigarettes, alcohol and drugs. If we support these, we support the help for obesity.

I'm thin but personally if I ever did start to pile on the pounds quite sharpish I would want people to tell me I am getting fat and am obese, instead of lying to me about it...

But, yes, great idea.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Dogless said:


> I think it is an excellent facility for those who find that the WW and SW models work for them.
> 
> I actually have a bit of an issue with the WW / SW idea in that they still seem to perpetuate unhealthy ways of viewing food and don't teach coping mechanisms that make it easy to move away from them and their ways of thinking. But if people are happy with the companies and with their methods then the referral scheme can only be good. The cynic in me sees it as a shrewd marketing move by WW and SW but..


nods.

I also think they don't teach seasonal shopping, cooking from scratch, promote exercise enough and the branded products are laden with salt and additives. It might appeal to some folk but not me.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

How exactly is it forced?

A GP will say ' oh, most of your problems are from being overweight. I will refer you to WeightWatchers or SlimmingWorld. Because of my referral you won't have to pay'.

He is giving you a helping hand to lose the weight. No-one is _forcing_ anyone to do anything. Just like if he gives you a prescription for penicillin to clear up an infection - its _your_ choice whether or not you go and get that prescription, and take those tablets.

The GP is just doing the job they are paid to do, by advising you of the best way to address the problem you have sought advice on.

If you don't want to go, don't go. Your choice.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I'm interested in what way do they perpetuate unhealthy ways of viewing food?


One example is in calling some food "syns" for instance.

I have issues with food. In short I am a bit of a binger / starver / restrictor. It is because my mother was always on a diet. Any unhealthy food was "naughty / a treat / bad" and consumed with guilt and until it was gone.

We need to get away from this culture of "treat days / bad food etc etc" and view all food as food. Some of it is less healthy than others certainly but we need to make sensible choices and if we fancy some chocolate we are not "sinning" and it isn't a guilty treat that needs to be gorged upon.

Some people become so reliant upon the WW / SW systems and products and totally dependent upon their local groups. They put on weight when they leave as they relax and end up going back time and again.

For some people they do work - and work wonders but I really do not like a lot of their fundamental make up.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Blackcats said:


> I think it's a fantastic idea, just like we support treatment for addictions with cigarettes, alcohol and drugs. If we support these, we support the help for obesity.
> 
> I'm thin but personally if I ever did start to pile on the pounds quite sharpish *I would want people to tell me I am getting fat and am obese, instead of lying to me about it...*
> 
> But, yes, great idea.


Would you not be able to work it out yourself?


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

MCWillow said:


> How exactly is it forced?
> 
> A GP will say ' oh, most of your problems are from being overweight. I will refer you to WeightWatchers or SlimmingWorld. Because of my referral you won't have to pay'.
> 
> ...


It's the fact they say I will refer you rather than would you like me to refer you



Dogless said:


> One example is in calling some food "syns" for instance.
> 
> I have issues with food. In short I am a bit of a binger / starver / restrictor. It is because my mother was always on a diet. Any unhealthy food was "naughty / a treat / bad" and consumed with guilt and until it was gone.
> 
> ...


Yeah I do agree with that completely!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Would you not be able to work it out yourself?


People do not always know, they also dont understand the effect it has on their health.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> It's the fact they say I will refer you rather than would you like me to refer you
> 
> !


You can decline you know!


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> People do not always know, they also dont understand the effect it has on their health.


I get they might no understand the effect on their health but how they don't know they are overweight/obese is beyond me


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> You can decline you know!


Yes I realise that


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

They've had free 1:1 health trainers here for a while. You can self refer and it is a 12 week programme. It's based on making healthy choices and exercise rather than being on a diet.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I get they might no understand the effect on their health but how they don't know they are overweight/obese is beyond me


you would be surprised. For example, How many people do you see in size 14 jeans/leggings and they are clearly more of a size 18? But they still think they are a size 14 because they are wearing that size. People are often in denial and need to be told


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> you would be surprised. For example, How many people do you see in size 14 jeans/leggings and they are clearly more of a size 18? But they still think they are a size 14 because they are wearing that size. People are often in denial and need to be told


I think they know they aren't a size 14 they just like wearing their clothes tight!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Jobeth said:


> They've had free 1:1 health trainers here for a while. You can self refer and it is a 12 week programme. It's based on making healthy choices and exercise rather than being on a diet.


Interestingly the course I am doing will allow me to take GP referrals - I think it is a great idea as it is a more holistic way of tackling obesity.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> It's the fact they say I will refer you rather than would you like me to refer you


Really?

Someone comes to me at work.

They say: 'I am having this problem, its your job to tell me how to solve it. What are you going to do?'

I say ' I will do this. In _my_ opinion (which you have just asked) this is the best way to try and address your problem'

Someone asks me how to solve their problem I am not going to ask if they want me to do this that and the other. They ask how to solve something, I give my opinion on how to solve it.

If they want to take that advice then fine, but if they dont want to take it, thats also fine. Their choice.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Dogless said:


> Interestingly the course I am doing will allow me to take GP referrals - I think it is a great idea as it is a more holistic way of tackling obesity.


It does sound a more holistic approach. Everybody is different and not one approach suits all so I do think that their should be a choice.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

MCWillow said:


> Really?
> 
> Someone comes to me at work.
> 
> ...


That's different, if you go to the GP for a weight related problem then get referred to WW then fine

I was on about those that don't go for a weight problem and the GP is like oh I see you're overweight, I'll refer you....


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Jobeth said:


> They've had free 1:1 health trainers here for a while. You can self refer and it is a 12 week programme. It's based on making healthy choices and exercise rather than being on a diet.


The GP I went to see said I could do a 12 week weight loss program I told her no thanks through gritted teeth


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> It does sound a more holistic approach. Everybody is different and not one approach suits all so I do think that their should be a choice.


It is better I think as it tackles diet and exercise - exercise is fab for mental health and self esteem as well as physical and the diet part focusses on the person making the correct choices for themselves based upon eating more cleanly and healthily. Then the diet helps the exercise and so on. Not rocket science but looks at the whole picture rather than focussing on food and with the marketing agenda and power of WW / SW / Cambridge Diet / Atkins etc etc etc


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> That's different, if you go to the GP for a weight related problem then get referred to WW then fine
> 
> I was on about those that don't go for a weight problem and the GP is like oh I see you're overweight, I'll refer you....


They have a duty of care though to their patients. Same as if you go with an earache and the doctor notices that you are due a cervical smear or that your blood pressure is high. They aren't going to ignore those and just focus on the earache.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> That's different, if you go to the GP for a weight related problem then get referred to WW then fine
> 
> I was on about those that don't go for a weight problem and the GP is like oh I see you're overweight, I'll refer you....


I didn't say it was weight related problem. I said they described their problem, I looked at the whole picture, and then gave my opinion on the best way to solve that problem. I looked at ALL contributing factors of the problem, and gave my professional opinion on ways to stop that problem.

The person asking my advice may not have even _thought_ of something that was obvious to me, because of my training and expertise. I would imagine that was why they had sought advice in the first place - they wanted an opinion from someone with more knowledge, overall, than they had.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

What I found odd about the whole WW and SW concept - I think it's on SW -that you can have unlimited pasta on certain days which simply isn't educational about portion control. I went for a few weeks to WW, hated the rentless marketing and eventually lost 2 stone by buying a low cal cook book. I've had/have bulimia so for me food is control and emotion. What I have learned from my recent health regime, where I've dropped 2 dress sizes) is that it must be from within and exercise is a key part of the weight loss process. Classes like this don't touch on it and as far as I know the leaders are more qualified to sell than over emotive support which is why I'm sure there are repeat offenders - my neighbour has been going for years and truly hasn't changed size much at all.

Now I don't have scales in our house, I'd be obsessed in a negative way if we did, but concentrating only on weight at these meetings concerns me. I saw a woman wearing jeans to weigh in and then arriving in a skimpy dress on week 2 so she would always lose a pound! The toilets were full before a meeting and then it's a hour of eating branded snack bars after weigh in... Surely that time is better spent walking a dog? And weighing over measuring inches doesn't help with the type of kettlebell workouts I do as it's not BMI friendly.

SW and WW and that worse offender Lighterlife remind me of IVF stats, we only ever hear about the positives, never the fails.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Dogless said:


> They have a duty of care though to their patients. Same as if you go with an earache and the doctor notices that you are due a cervical smear or that your blood pressure is high. They aren't going to ignore those and just focus on the earache.


Exactly what i was going to say.

I can see the headlines now. Patient sues GP after developing cardiovascular disease! Patient states Ive visited the GP 10 times in the last year and not once did they warn me I was st risk due to my weight! lol Wheres the holistic approach, treat the patient as a whole not just an ailment!!!!


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Dogless said:


> They have a duty of care though to their patients. Same as if you go with an earache and the doctor notices that you are due a cervical smear or that your blood pressure is high. They aren't going to ignore those and just focus on the earache.


In my surgery it's a 5-10 min appointment, don't really have time to discuss things other than what the appointment is for


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

TBH I don't think doctors are going to push anyone...they want to save the NHS money rather than spend it. Twice when I have had really bad pain, I have been told to 'go and buy yourself some ...' whatever, rather than write me a prescription. And this is to someone like me who visits the GP so seldom that they wrote and said 'we have not seen you for 15 years... if we do not hear from you within 21 days of receiving this letter, we shall remove you from our list'. So my guess is that the patient will have to suggest it to the GP.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I think most of us know when we are overweight, in my own case I'm a qualified nurse and have always have a great interest in nutrition. I didn't need anyone to tell me I was overweight and actually found it quite soul destroying when people felt the need to. I used to say "thanks I have a mirror and a set of scales". Perhaps a dietician referral to someone who actually understands nutrition would be better. I think some basic courses on nutrition and cooking would help for a lot of people, I'm always amazed at how little some people understand proteins/carbs etc.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> What I found odd about the whole WW and SW concept - I think it's on SW -that you can have unlimited pasta on certain days which simply isn't educational about portion control. I went for a few weeks to WW, hated the rentless marketing and eventually lost 2 stone by buying a low cal cook book. I've had/have bulimia so for me food is control and emotion. What I have learned from my recent health regime, where I've dropped 2 dress sizes) is that it must be from within and exercise is a key part of the weight loss process. Classes like this don't touch on it and as far as I know the leaders are more qualified to sell than over emotive support which is why I'm sure there are repeat offenders - my neighbour has been going for years and truly hasn't changed size much at all.
> 
> Now I don't have scales in our house, I'd be obsessed in a negative way if we did, but concentrating only on weight at these meetings concerns me. I saw a woman wearing jeans to weigh in and then arriving in a skimpy dress on week 2 so she would always lose a pound! The toilets were full before a meeting and then it's a hour of eating branded snack bars after weigh in... Surely that time is better spent walking a dog? And weighing over measuring inches doesn't help with the type of kettlebell workouts I do as it's not BMI friendly.
> 
> SW and WW and that worse offender Lighterlife remind me of IVF stats, we only ever hear about the positives, never the fails.


SW dont do green and red days any more and WW are moving away from points to free and easy which is basically healthy food with a few higher fat choices that can be chosen in moderation with additional points for treats such as WINE with out having too much. It has change recently

Its not for everybody tho


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> In my surgery it's a 5-10 min appointment, don't really have time to discuss things other than what the appointment is for


Don't be obtuse - even without time to discuss I am sure the doc will ask you to make another appointment with them, or the nurse if they spot a problem that will take some tackling beyond the time they have that day. If they seriously only focus on one problem and leave other potentially serious issues that are staring them in the face to worsen then it will not be too long until they are struck off for medical negligence and I suggest you get a new GP.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Dogless said:


> Don't be obtuse - even without time to discuss I am sure the doc will ask you to make another appointment with them, or the nurse if they spot a problem that will take some tackling beyond the time they have that day. If they seriously only focus on one problem and leave other potentially serious issues that are staring them in the face to worsen then it will not be too long until they are struck off for medical negligence and I suggest you get a new GP.


I don't need a new GP thanks, I love the one I have, he discusses what I actually go in for

There was one in the surgery that was appalling, went in for my HMS (she didn't even know what it was, which is fair enough) but she was so dismissive, she was more interested in talking about my contraception and getting me on the coil or implant


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I don't need a new GP thanks, I love the one I have, he discusses what I actually go in for
> 
> There was one in the surgery that was appalling, went in for my HMS (she didn't even know what it was, which is fair enough) but she was so dismissive, she was more interested in talking about my contraception and getting me on the coil or implant


Mine discusses what I go in for too - of course that is what I want - but really do you not think that if GPs ignore potential red flags they are being negligent?


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> That's different, if you go to the GP for a weight related problem then get referred to WW then fine
> 
> I was on about those that don't go for a weight problem and the GP is like oh I see you're overweight, I'll refer you....


Quite a few health problems are made worse by being overweight so a GP may need to address that problem first , whether or not the patient likes it


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

LostGirl said:


> When you are a fattie you could go for a poorly finger and it's because your fat lol (I am a fattie btw)


My Doctor has stopped this I keep meeting him out walking in the forest and it's him huffing and puffing up the hills, not me!!



Dogless said:


> I think it is an excellent facility for those who find that the WW and SW models work for them.
> 
> I actually have a bit of an issue with the WW / SW idea in that they still seem to perpetuate unhealthy ways of viewing food and don't teach coping mechanisms that make it easy to move away from them and their ways of thinking. But if people are happy with the companies and with their methods then the referral scheme can only be good. The cynic in me sees it as a shrewd marketing move by WW and SW but..


I agree and the constant "if you do not come to class you will get fat again" sets some people up for failure, and ensures WW and SW profits IMO . I do believe it is a good idea for some people seeking help though. I have used WW myself in the past. That weigh in kept me focused and was what I needed at the time.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Dogless said:


> Mine discusses what I go in for too - of course that is what I want - but really do you not think that if GPs ignore potential red flags they are being negligent?


I think the problem at hand should be discussed first then if there's time left other things or suggest the patient make a second appointment



Mese said:


> Quite a few health problems are made worse by being overweight so a GP may need to address that problem first , whether or not the patient likes it


I would politely tell my GP I'm not here to discuss my weight (unless of course I was)


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

ACP Journal Club. Weight loss was greater wit... [Ann Intern Med. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI
Weight Watchers on prescription: an observ... [BMC Public Health. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

two genuine journals for anyone interested


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I think the problem at hand should be discussed first then if there's time left other things or suggest the patient make a second appointment
> 
> I would politely tell my GP I'm not here to discuss my weight (unless of course I was)


Immaterial if its your weight causing the problem , what then , no-one can mention it but they are still expected to cure you


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I think the problem at hand should be discussed first then if there's time left other things or *suggest the patient make a second appointment *


Which is exactly what I said. Sometimes though some problems are intertwined. For example last time I went to see the psychiatrist for some more medication and so she could check I hadn't seen myself off she noticed that I had dropped a lot of weight when I had been pretty slim anyway and immediately asked if it was intentional and if so why? If she had ignored that it would have been wrong of her.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Mese said:


> Immaterial if its your weight causing the problem , what then , no-one can mention it but they are still expected to cure you


Personally I think its different if you go to the doctor with a problem that is directly linked to being overweight then yes I think its fair for them to point out that losing some weight might help but I would hate to see it come to the point where every GP visit turns into a lecture on your weight, your alcohol intake, your exercise levels and whether you take part in dangerous sports. There are actually plenty of overweight people who are perfectly healthy with it, who exercise regularly and keep their blood pressure and cholesterol levels within normal ranges.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Dogless said:


> Mine discusses what I go in for too - of course that is what I want - but really *do you not think that if GPs ignore potential red flags they are being negligent?*


Actually, some people don't want to hear things.

They want to go a to GP and describe that they feel faint and sick and dont know why. They want to the GP to prescribe some magic medicine to make them all better.

They dont want to answer any questions, because the answers may bring to light that they have brought on the problems themselves, through their own lifestyle.

'I feel dizzy and sick, and have no energy'

'Hmm, OK, well whats your diet like, on average?'

'Thats got nothing to do with it! I eat whatever the feck I want for 5 days, then I starve for 2 days, coz thats the only way in the world for me to look like Candice Swannepoel. If I look like her my boyfriend will stop looking at pictures of her in the Daily Mail, so thats a good thing - so thats nothing to do with why I feel so ill a few days a week - so just give me some tablets to make me feel better OK'

'Actually, I don't think eating anything and everything you want for 5 days, then starving yourself for 2 days is going to help you. I will refer you to WW/SW, which may help you find a way to eat healthily every day. When you are eating what you need every day, and learning how to do that in a healthy way, you will stop feeling dizzy and sick and may find you have more energy'

'WHAT? I didnt ask for help to lose weight! What made you think I want to lose weight?? Just give me the anti dizzy/sick/faint tablets I have asked for!'

*sigh*


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Dogless said:


> Which is exactly what I said. Sometimes though some problems are intertwined. For example last time I went to see the psychiatrist for some more medication and so she could check I hadn't seen myself off she noticed that I had dropped a lot of weight when I had been pretty slim anyway and immediately asked if it was intentional and if so why? If she had ignored that it would have been wrong of her.


Did she sponsor you?


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Would you not be able to work it out yourself?


True but sometimes people need the motivation to start pushing themselves and have that want.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Probably be shot down for this but as an overweight person myself I wish my doctor had said " look love you are fat not cuddly sort it out here's 12 weeks of free slimming world' 

I joined slimming world off my own back two months ago and it's the best thing I ever did.

I've dropped almost 2 stone in two months and feel a lot better  lots of my " health problems" are starting to disappear. If you are overweight and in poor health getting rid of the weight should be your first priority


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Personally I think its different if you go to the doctor with a problem that is directly linked to being overweight then yes I think its fair for them to point out that losing some weight might help but I would hate to see it come to the point where every GP visit turns into a lecture on your weight, your alcohol intake, your exercise levels and whether you take part in dangerous sports. There are actually plenty of overweight people who are perfectly healthy with it, who exercise regularly and keep their blood pressure and cholesterol levels within normal ranges.


Exactly this!

If I'm going for my pill I expect them to sometimes mention my weight, if I'm going for my HMS/ears/skin problems they can keep the lecture


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> Did she sponsor you?


No just voiced concern that I would "drop dead" which funnily enough were the words my GP also used as all my tablets lengthen the Q-T interval  so I now need ECGs all the time to check that I am not about to shuffle off this mortal coil .



MCWillow said:


> Actually, some people don't want to hear things.
> 
> They want to go a to GP and describe that they feel faint and sick and dont know why. They want to the GP to prescribe some magic medicine to make them all better.
> 
> ...


Yes, I am well used to patients who don't want to hear things (or was) - but sometimes they have to have things at least raised as a concern because the health care professional is being negligent by not doing so.

Whether they act upon what they hear is of course up to them!!


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

I think the option of a weight loss course referral is an excellent idea!

Tink, for goodness sake please stop making a mountain out of a molehill on this. A Doctor does not mean any personal insult when they mention weight, and as Dogless has said they have a duty of care that covers the patient's health as a whole. _Let them do their job_. 
A few weeks ago I saw a GP for an acute problem and was prescribed something I wasn't sure I needed. In the end I didn't pick it up. Same principle would apply for a WW referral.

On the other end of the scale (no pun intended btw!), it isn't just larger individuals who are asked about their weight. I tend towards being underweight and I get asked about my weight/diet/lifestyle and asked to get on the scales at virtually every Doctor's appointment I have. 
I know I am underweight and gladly accepted medical investigation, instead of getting offended. Better safe than sorry where health is concerned IMO.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Exactly this!
> 
> If I'm going for my pill I expect them to sometimes mention my weight, if I'm going for my HMS/ears/skin problems they can keep the lecture


If you are going to the GP regarding your HMS then he should discuss you weight as it wont help your condition


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> If you are going to the GP regarding your HMS then he should discuss you weight as it wont help your condition


I'm pleased he doesn't, I'm pleased he has the sense to see that I won't be cured regardless if weight


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

It's always shocking how many people time and time again slam the NHS and the doctors and nurses, etc, who work there.

Now, I'm not saying for one moment there's not cases of wrong doing that goes on but when people whinge over the most stupidest things just makes me want to slap them.

If your doctor is that crap, you get peeved off because they mention things you don't want to hear (OMG, they're doing their job. Naughty them) then how about feck off to America, pay thousands in treatment, prescriptions, medical care, doctor visits, and then realise how lucky you are to live in a country where treatment is free.

God forbid, a doctor doing their job.

When I go see my doctor about something, they ask me of other general health problems (If any) and go through quite a few things. I don't get offended if they tell me what they think, even if it goes a little beyond what I initially went there for. Nice to see a doctor being thorough and doing their job, as opposed to doctors who do not listen (And I had a bad case of that not long ago)

If I was overweight and was discussing something that was nothing to do with my weight (Say severe headaches) I assume they would bring my weight into it because there are more factors to consider and when you are obese, a lot of health problems can come from that. So they look at the risks, source and reason why and make suggestions.

It's laughable when people try to pretend they are a doctor themselves and want the doctor to say what they want to hear and what suits them.

Just doesn't work.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I'm pleased he doesn't, I'm pleased he has the sense to see that I won't be cured regardless if weight


You wont be cured but it could be improved with weight loss


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

What does HMS stand for? I keep reading it as Her Majesty's Ship...


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm a fat person, however I actively try to lose the weight I am still getting my thyroid levels sorted which can be some time however I attend the gym 3 times a week and just today told my husband I was hoping to join my local SW. 

My doctor is happy that I'm doing enough to drop weight though he said it will be slightly better once my levels are right. However if he's off or busy and I have to see other doctors I'm perfectly happy for them to bring up my weight, I'm not ashamed and they are not trying to hurt me. We live on earth, grass is green, I am fat, these are all things we know are facts so it doesn't upset me.

MCWillow is right, too many people want a quick fix not to treat the actual root of the problem. You may do the 5:2 diet but if you're stuffing your face with micro meals and energy drinks the 2 days you starve yourself will make very little difference. 

The example MCWillow gave about going to the doctors to stop feeling ill because you're doing a 5:2 diet to make your fella look at you over other girls in the tabloids would most likely make the doctor assess the patients mental health needs first before addressing feeling ill. 

I think offering WW ect on the NHS is a great step forward, people can get the help that otherwise they may not be able to afford


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Thorne said:


> *What does HMS stand for*? I keep reading it as Her Majesty's Ship...


I was wondering that too.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

northnsouth said:


> I was wondering that too.


Hyper mobility syndrome
Joint hypermobility - NHS Choices


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> You wont be cured but it could be improved with weight loss


Absolutely. Same as my back will always be royally fecked (a medical term for the sorry, sad state it is in) and that will always be the case but if I were to gain weight I would be up **** creek without the proverbial and it wouldn't perhaps be too long til I had me a set of wheels . My hips that are prone to dislocation would be far more prone to dislocate as would my other joints - well, apart from those that vorsprung durch technik kindly stabilised.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I'm pleased he doesn't, I'm pleased he has the sense to see that I won't be cured regardless if weight


For god sake tink , stop feeling sorry for yourself , your not the only person who lives with this ..just we don't twine ..

Get off your arse and exercise .. It works wonders !


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

Im disabled i can hardly walk but god damn my girls need days when i can walk them not just my OH, i dose up on pain killers and walk im in constant pain i broke my neck but there are people worse off then me makes makes me sick ppl whinge stop feeling sorry for yourself


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Honest to god, I get so peed off at people whinging and turning threads into being all about themselves. Clearly, being morbidly obese is seriously detrimental to anyone with joint issues, this is not rocket science  One of my dogs has hip dysplasia: I have the brain to keep him lean, fit and properly exercised. If a doctor didn't mention a patient bring very overweight, then I'd say it's a failure in their duty. It has a bearing on everything else.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> You wont be cured but it could be improved with weight loss


Not necessarily , sure it might be and I am trying to lose weight (17.4lbs so far)



Thorne said:


> What does HMS stand for? I keep reading it as Her Majesty's Ship...


Hyper mobility syndrome



paddyjulie said:


> For god sake tink , stop feeling sorry for yourself , your not the only person who lives with this ..just we don't twine ..
> 
> *Get off your arse and exercise* .. It works wonders !


Wish I could

I will be getting back to physio soon, that involves being on my arse though (well bed lol)


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

The government need to get a better handle on the food industry, this is merely fiddling while Rome burns. As someone who has never had issues with eating/weight, I've been guilty of having the common view that the obese are 100% responsible for the situation they find themselves in and pretty much deserve what they get because of it. I'm now of the opinion that they are not that responsible - sugar is addictive and you simply cannot avoid the constant promotion of junk food at every turn. If you're trying to get off heroin or alcohol you can somewhat avoid coming into contact with it, try and avoid junk food - impossible. People are dying in their droves because of what the food industry is pushing and it's costing the NHS millions, it simply can't go on.

But......weight watchers and slimming world are not the answer and if anything they're part of the problem. Their business models are based on short term weight loss and repeat custom and they have absolutely no interest in people changing their habits in the long term:

"As former finance director of Weight Watchers, Richard Samber, put it to me - "It's successful because the 84% [who can't keep the weight off] keep coming back. That's where your business comes from.")"

"Weight Watchers, created by New York housewife Jean Nidetch in the early 1960s, was bought by Heinz in 1978, who in turn sold the company in 1999 to investment firm Artal for $735m. The next in line was Slimfast, a liquid meal replacement invented by chemist and entrepreneur Danny Abraham, which was bought in 2000 by Unilever, which also owns the Ben & Jerry brand and Wall's sausages. The US diet phenomenon Jenny Craig was bought by Swiss multinational Nestlé, which also sells chocolate and ice-cream"

Fat profits: how the food industry cashed in on obesity | Life and style | The Guardian

So these companies are owned by the exact same multinationals that are inherently responsible for the issue and fight genuine change at each turn, it's like paying British-American tobacco to an run anti-smoking groups. The only way real change will happen is if people change their lifestyle, for life - that's not easy and I don't think this initiative comes close to achieving that.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Well, I'm off to the docs! 

WW worked for me in the past and I lost 2 stone. Rosemary Conley also worked and I lost 1 1/2 stone.

Trouble is, none of these programmes seem to work long term. 

Most people who are overweight probably have an issue with food and unfortunately, food cannot be avoided. 

I would suggest that every overweight person is fully aware they are overweight and the reasons for it. Most of us do need a push in the right direction to do something about it and a doctor is best placed to give us the harsh truth.

Having said that, I am shocked at the number of health professionals that I have seen over the years who are overweight - some excessively. Clearly, medical and nutritional knowledge and witnessing the effects of excess weight on patients is not incentive enough.

Most people who lose weight on these programmes tend to put it back on - so it's not a cure all, unfortunately.

However, it is probably cheaper in the long run to hand out these courses, than fund the effects of excess weight in later life. It will work for some.

But, only if their relationship with food is changed, for the better and used in conjunction with exercise for overall health.

The problem of obesity runs far deeper than just knowing what to eat IMO. If one has an addiction to drugs, ****, booze, etc. they can be avoided - unfortunately food cannot. 

I hope my GP will refer me. It won't be a miracle cure, but it might set me on the right path (again)


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Call me cynical, but this smacks of more commercial advantage than anything else. 

I would hazard a guess that the NHS are paying weightwatchers minimal amounts (ie heavily discounted rate) for people to be "referred" to WW as members for the 12 wk period - At a guess, Its cheaper for the NHS to do this than run their own systems, goes along with the current trend of bringing private companies in to fulfil NHS roles (people would probably have been referred to a dietician in previous years if there was a problem big enough to warrent it)

Weightwatchers in return get members through the door to sell their books, meals, calculators, plans and whatever else to... and after 12 weeks they will probably retain a good number of people who have lost weight out of the patients own pocket, at full price. And so continues the circle of advertising books, new plans, weightwatcher brand foods....


It seems like a clever WW marketing scheme more than anything else.

Im all for losing wieght, but agree with those that said for long term weight loss - the person needs to change their relationship with food and exercise.

My mum has been a WW and SW for as long as I can remember... Seh has the books, the plans, the meals - hell she even has ww bread?! (I dont see how a very expensive tiny loaf is any better than a proper wholemeal loaf)


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Not necessarily , sure it might be and I am trying to lose weight (17.4lbs so far)
> 
> Wish I could
> 
> I will be getting back to physio soon, that involves being on my arse though (well bed lol)


I don't think what you have can be treated by anything other than a mental health team.

You wonder why you get "bullied" on forums, it's because you push and push, people give you advice, you ignore it, people give you their opinion (which they are entitled to, its a public forum) but that's not "right" because it doesn't match your idea of stewing in your own self pity.

I really do feel sorry for your OH, he has to care for you, cook for you, stay with you all the time, take you down stairs with him to collect a parcel from the mail man, clean out all your breeding rodents and he gets nothing in return. You ban him from looking at women on tv or even on the daily mail! You wont sleep with him either, I can only imagine life would be better for him in Prison!

Instead of diagnosing yourself online (which you admit you've done!) go to the doctors and ask to see a mental health team, personally you remind me of someone else I know and it looks like they have Narcissistic personality disorder, I suggest you get help before you lose not only your access to the majority of forums online but your OH too.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I think it is an excellent facility for those who find that the WW and SW models work for them.
> 
> I actually have a bit of an issue with the WW / SW idea in that they still seem to perpetuate unhealthy ways of viewing food and don't teach coping mechanisms that make it easy to move away from them and their ways of thinking. But if people are happy with the companies and with their methods then the referral scheme can only be good. The cynic in me sees it as a shrewd marketing move by WW and SW but..


Same here, if you look at the range of WW foods in the supermarkets they are hardly 'healthy' choices.

I also do not think diets work for most people, it's changing habits & views on food rather than constantly restricting what you eat. WW is a business & if what they promote works then why do so many people have to keep going back?

Lots of people in my office went o the Liter Lite diet a couple of years ago, they all lost ALOT of weight yet every single person has put it back on.

There was a great series on BBC a few months ago called 'The Men Who Made Us Fat', which was very interesting (although I didn't see all episodes unfortunately), it really opened my eyes to the diet industry & the myths they promote so I am sceptical about this sort of scheme.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

shetlandlover said:


> I don't think what you have can be treated by anything other than a mental health team.
> 
> You wonder why you get "bullied" on forums, it's because you push and push, people give you advice, you ignore it, people give you their opinion (which they are entitled to, its a public forum) but that's not "right" because it doesn't match your idea of stewing in your own self pity.
> 
> ...


As was previously suggested by a Moderator - if people find certain pf'ers annoying or frustrating then put them on IGNORE.

Your post is totally out of order IMO. Just do it - the IGNORE button is easy to find. You are feeding the fire - and are really no better.

There is no need for such nasty and wicked personal attacks.

If someone really does have MH issues - then your post is particularly cruel.


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

If I got referred to either WW or SW I would politely refuse 
It isn't the sort of diet plan that helps you understand or combat your food issues, it is purely to get you onto their books buying their food drinks etc, my sis in law was on WW & did fab on the meals drinks etc but as soon as she stopped (money) she piled it all back on, which is what MOST people I know do 

I have weight issues but also joint & muscle problems so it's a bit of a constant circle.. Loose.weight feel slightly better then have a few bad weeks (like atm) where work is about all I can manage put weight back on feel worse etc forever 

I am a bit fed up of going to the docs with a problem & having my weight focused on.. When I ask for help all I get is exercise & diet.. Which is correct but it's like telling a smoker to quit smoking with no advice on how.. It doesn't work (ideally I need to lose between 1.5 & 2.5 stone.. Lost 1\2 stone already)


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> As was previously suggested by a Moderator - if people find certain pf'ers annoying or frustrating then put them on IGNORE.
> 
> Your post is totally out of order IMO. Just do it - the IGNORE button is easy to find. You are feeding the fire - and are really no better.
> 
> ...


There are at least 7, active well known members who are talking about leaving Petforums for good, because this troll has returned. Subtle hints and advice don't work with her, maybe tough love will.

How is stating the obvious a nasty personal attack? Everything I've said she, herself has posted all over the internet!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

shetlandlover said:


> There are at least 7, active well known members who are talking about leaving Petforums for good, because this troll has returned. Subtle hints and advice don't work with her, maybe tough love will.
> 
> How is stating the obvious a nasty personal attack? Everything I've said she, herself has posted all over the internet!


Really? Can you not see it?

Don't respond to any of her posts - don't give her advice - then you won't be upset when she ignores it.

Whatever someone else has posted about themselves is irrelevant. YOUR post was nasty IMO.

I suggest that those 7 people who are considering leaving the forum could easily prevent any future upset for themselves by following my advice and pressing the IGNORE button. The fact that they haven't after all this time surprises me. It's just so simple IMO. It takes two to tango after all.

You are perpetuating the problem by responding. Just don't - it really IS that simple.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> I suggest that those 7 people who are considering leaving the forum could easily prevent any future upset for themselves by following my advice and pressing the IGNORE button.


  Ignore button is so useful. You do still see the comments when other posters quote the ignored person though.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

OMG it seems everything a see a thread that going to be good , the name appears! Anyway I did slimming world and it was really good, it changed my eating habits completely and it's based mainly on fresh cooking and not pre packed meals, and you get a point system so you can still have take outs and it won't create to much of a problem as long as you stay within the point system and they give you a book with all the naughty and their points .

I think the doctors need a very nice bedside manner to deliver the blow to an overweight person that they need to diet, my doc ,in fact on Tue said it would be an idea to shake off a few pound which I agreed with. But I get on with him very well


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Lurcherlad said:


> Really? Can you not see it?
> 
> Don't respond to any of her posts - don't give her advice - then you won't be upset when she ignores it.
> 
> ...


I'm afraid, IMO, this is wrong. One person is annoying far more than 7 people on here: she does this on a multitude of forums and only stops when she is permanently banned for her racist or nationalistic comments which she thinks are fine to post on forums used by youngsters. Why should she be allowed to ruin a perfectly nice forum? If you haven't realised by now that this is her 'day job' and raisin d'être, then I'm frankly a bit surprised. She is a troll, it's what she does. She pushes and pushes until threads are locked and arguments created. Very unpleasant and deliberate thing to do.


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## Symone (Dec 3, 2012)

Personally I think that this is a good idea, however the person that gets referred will have to want to change their ways. 
I joined slimming world 3 weeks ago now and it has changed my eating habits. I eat far more fruit and veg, use less fatty things and cook more from scratch. I also create snacks from scratch so they're more "slimming world friendly" but also because I would happily pig out on chocolate and pizza the whole day. 
I did try to lose weight with help from my doctor before but he barely helped. Referred me to a woman that couldn't care less and just wanted money. 

I joined slimming world after putting it off for months because I kept seeing Ellen's weight loss posts lol. And I'm glad I did because I'm already down a size in clothing(11 1/2 lbs)

You will have to want to lose though. It is more of a lifestyle change than a diet now, with naughty things in moderation. 

I just wish someone would have said to my face "you're fat, do something" sooner. I didn't think I was as fat as I am. Oh well


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I think the problem at hand should be discussed first then if there's time left other things or suggest the patient make a second appointment
> 
> I would politely tell my GP I'm not here to discuss my weight (unless of course I was)


If any of your health issues were caused by being overweight but you refuse to talk about it then there really isnt much the doctor could do. The health problems would just get worse until you acknowledged your weight issue and was ready to do something about it.
Readiness to change has to be there.

(All hypothetical of course) 

As others have said though, there is a lot more to losing weight than just diet and exercise. If healthy food was cheaper and junk food was expensive it'd be a good start.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> Whatever someone else has posted about themselves is irrelevant. YOUR post was nasty *IMO*.


Exactly, in your opinion and as Tink often replies, that's your opinion. But since it's not the same opinion as my own....its wrong.:wink:

Why should 7 active, long standing members have to limit their use of the forum because she ruins threads? Blocking can only work so far, someone else quotes that person and you see it, regardless if you have them blocked or not.


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

Lurcherlad said:


> Trouble is, none of these programmes seem to work long term.


I read some crazy statistic somewhere that up to 98% of diets don't work. Don't know how accurate that is, but I do know that every single person I know who lost weight through a diet like WW, Atkins, South Beach, Paleo etc., gained it all back.

First off, I do think that what we eat on a regular basis can make a huge impact on our health. But I also think we're approaching "diet" from the wrong angle.

Instead of focusing on diet as a means to lose weight, we need to be looking at eating for health. So much of the western diet is based off of processed food full of additives, preservatives, and junk. We're over-fed and under-nourished. 
Eating real food, whole food, food that remembers where it came from, from natural sources without having been processed or adulterated is where we need to focus IMHO 

The other thing we need to get away from is this notion that health lies with a number on the scale. It doesn't. Stand at the finish line of any half marathon, marathon, triathlon, and you're going to see a huge variety of body sizes - all fit enough to complete that test of endurance. Thin =/= healthy and big =/= unhealthy. It's all about how you take care of your body and what's going on on the inside.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ouesi said:


> I read some crazy statistic somewhere that up to 98% of diets dont work. Dont know how accurate that is, but I do know that every single person I know who lost weight through a diet like WW, Atkins, South Beach, Paleo etc., gained it all back.
> 
> First off, I do think that what we eat on a regular basis can make a huge impact on our health. But I also think were approaching diet from the wrong angle.
> 
> ...


I completely agree, it's not jut what we eat, how much, etc but it is also our attitudes to food that need to change.

There was a programme on Woman's Hour (R4) a while ago that discussed women's issues with food & it was so sad, all these intelligent, successful women who despite everything still measured their sense of worth according to what the scales read 

I also think we need to understand the diet & food industry a bit more & their ploys in getting us to buy their products, what exactly is in their food, what this can do to our bodies, how they are influencing our daily choices as I really do not believe that it all comes down to self control at all (after watching the programme I referred to earlier).


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

SW really works. It changes your eating habits and encourages healthier choices by directing you to fill up on 'free' foods. The problem is that people slip up, stop going and they need maintenance, which SW offers. 

Personally, I need the weekly checks or I don't stick to it. I lost eight stones, thought I was fine then piled loads back on when I gave up smoking and had something bad happen. The leg thing exacerbated the weight issue. 

There's no point refusing to talk about it: face up, admit there's a problem and get started on a programme. Food addiction is the same as any other but you can't eliminate it from your life, as someone already said. But every time you put that chocolate or pizza in your mouth, just think about the fact that you are disabling yourself (as I have done) by making it ever harder to move yourself and creating unnecessary strain on your body. It shortens your life being overweight and the fatter you are, the more it shortens your life and limits your ability to do anything. Pretty straightforward equation.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> I completely agree, it's not jut what we eat, how much, etc but it is also our attitudes to food that need to change.
> 
> There was a programme on Woman's Hour (R4) a while ago that discussed women's issues with food & it was so sad, all these intelligent, successful women who despite everything still measured their sense of worth according to what the scales read
> 
> I also think we need to understand the diet & food industry a bit more & their ploys in getting us to buy their products, what exactly is in their food, what this can do to our bodies, how they are influencing our daily choices as I really do not believe that it all comes down to self control at all (after watching the programme I referred to earlier).


Totally. I have an unhealthy relationship with food, I eat through stress as a comfortwr and boredom too.
Although I'm overweight I'm not obese, a size 14, I do worry about my weight a lot and go on and off diets regularly.

I'm a successful career woman, respected by my colleagues and clients. Yet I still worry when meeting new people about "first impressions" wrt weigh and appearances. I over egg the confidence game face to compensate for the niggling insecurity inside!

I know what I need to do to change that, but losing weight and keeping it off is more than what a simple diet can provide. It's my head that needs the work, not my knowledge of how to lose weight


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

cinnamontoast said:


> SW really works. It changes your eating habits and encourages healthier choices by directing you to fill up on 'free' foods. The problem is that people slip up, stop going and they need maintenance, which SW offers.
> 
> Personally, I need the weekly checks or I don't stick to it. I lost eight stones, thought I was fine then piled loads back on when I gave up smoking and had something bad happen. The leg thing exacerbated the weight issue.
> 
> There's no point refusing to talk about it: face up, admit there's a problem and get started on a programme. Food addiction is the same as any other but you can't eliminate it from your life, as someone already said. But every time you put that chocolate or pizza in your mouth, just think about the fact that you are disabling yourself (as I have done) by making it ever harder to move yourself and creating unnecessary strain on your body. It shortens your life being overweight and the fatter you are, the more it shortens your life and limits your ability to do anything. Pretty straightforward equation.


I can understand what you mean but surely if it really did work then people wouldn't need to be closely monitored every week, they would be educated enough to make their own choices & understand what those choices should be.

The fact that people who stop attending WW usually put back on the weight suggests that their real issues with food haven't been addressed.

How is your leg now btw? I can still remember the pics you posted of your injury


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Excellent post Ouesi. 

I also think we need to go back to basics with young kids and make sure they understand about health/nutrition and cooking. 

Eating less and doing more exercise simply doesn't work for everyone and people who exercise a great deal to control their weight can get into real problems when they pick up an injury. There are plenty of thin people walking around with high blood pressure and high cholesterol. When I was 3 stone overweight I had an ECG, cholesterol and blood pressure check and they were all excellent. 

You do need to find out what works for you and find a way to incorporate that in your everyday life. I am a person of habit and develop habits very quickly both good and bad so I make sure now that if I do something like stop for an ice cream on a particular dog walk or have a piece of toast before bedtime that I don't do it again the next day otherwise before I know it I'm doing it every day. 

By the way troll or no troll I have found some of the comments about other people's mental health quite shocking and unnecessary.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> I can understand what you mean but surely if it really did work then people wouldn't need to be closely monitored every week, they would be educated enough to make their own choices & understand what those choices should be.
> 
> The fact that people who stop attending WW usually put back on the weight suggests that their real issues with food haven't been addressed.
> 
> How is your leg now btw? I can still remember the pics you posted of your injury


But I think that's the point: you don't send an alcoholic or ex heroin addict off with a merry wave and a cheery 'Good luck, mate'! They need monitoring for years, possibly medicating and support. It's too easy to slip back into bad habits, so the weekly monitoring does work, IME.

The leg is a bit crap, tbh, but nothing can be done bar me getting off my bum and doing some exercise, so I need to do that. Thanks for asking, it was epic! This time last year, I would have been going back to work in a few days with a ruddy great hole leaking down my leg still!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Shetlandlover and Cinnamontoast

I told my 5 year old to ignore nuisances - he did - it worked.

Please yourself, I couldn't care less - but you are the ones dangling on a hook for someone else's entertainment 

Suggesting someone has MH issues and then slaughtering them in print seems cruel to me - all it does is show you in a bad light. Just rise above it.

I shall choose to IGNORE this thread now - no button, just acting like a 53 year old


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

cinnamontoast said:


> SW really works. It changes your eating habits and encourages healthier choices by directing you to fill up on 'free' foods. The problem is that people slip up, stop going and they need maintenance, which SW offers.
> 
> Personally, I need the weekly checks or I don't stick to it. I lost eight stones, thought I was fine then piled loads back on when I gave up smoking and had something bad happen. The leg thing exacerbated the weight issue.
> 
> There's no point refusing to talk about it: face up, admit there's a problem and get started on a programme. Food addiction is the same as any other but you can't eliminate it from your life, as someone already said. But every time you put that chocolate or pizza in your mouth, just think about the fact that you are disabling yourself (as I have done) by making it ever harder to move yourself and creating unnecessary strain on your body. It shortens your life being overweight and the fatter you are, the more it shortens your life and limits your ability to do anything. Pretty straightforward equation.


It really does, my eating habits have completely flipped around and that is only after 2 months. I am grabbing the healthy stuff without having to think about it, not only that but I am sure my metabolism has kicked in ( god knows where it has been) and if I do fall off the wagon I am not putting on 3/4/5lbs but still managing a loss.

It's a complete lifestyle change, I know people who have got to target and never gone back and DO keep the weight off. However most people who chose to stay even after achieving their goal do so for the emotional support offered by your slimming world rep and to keep in touch with all the friends you have made on your journey.

Until you have bee to a slimming world group, or been on a slimming world journey it's maybe hard to understand why people still chose to go even after achieving their goals.

Plus once you reach your target the groups are free


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

grumpy goby said:


> Totally. I have an unhealthy relationship with food, I eat through stress as a comfortwr and boredom too.
> Although I'm overweight I'm not obese, a size 14, I do worry about my weight a lot and go on and off diets regularly.
> 
> I'm a successful career woman, respected by my colleagues and clients. Yet I still worry when meeting new people about "first impressions" wrt weigh and appearances. I over egg the confidence game face to compensate for the niggling insecurity inside!
> ...


I actually don't know one woman who has a healthy relationship with food, most men I know do but not the women ... I think that says a lot about our society unfortunately


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

cinnamontoast said:


> SW really works. It changes your eating habits and encourages healthier choices by directing you to fill up on 'free' foods. The problem is that people slip up, stop going and they need maintenance, which SW offers.
> 
> Personally, I need the weekly checks or I don't stick to it. I lost eight stones, thought I was fine then piled loads back on when I gave up smoking and had something bad happen. The leg thing exacerbated the weight issue.


If the weight issue is due to food choices, sure, I can see something like WW helping. But plenty of overweight people are incredibly disciplined and knowledgeable about food. Many are excellent dieters, and loose weight on every diet. What they cant do is maintain the weight loss, and arguably fluctuating your weight is as detrimental to your health as being overweight. 
I also wonder about the food choices with WW (not familiar with SW). Here WW has a whole line of foods from frozen meals to cereals to portions of cakes and cookies. Every last one is processed and preserved out the wazoo and not nutritionally sound, just low in calories. 
I hope your leg is doing better, I remember that - epic indeed! 



cinnamontoast said:


> There's no point refusing to talk about it: face up, admit there's a problem and get started on a programme. Food addiction is the same as any other but you can't eliminate it from your life, as someone already said. *But every time you put that chocolate or pizza in your mouth, just think about the fact that you are disabling yourself *(as I have done) by making it ever harder to move yourself and creating unnecessary strain on your body. It shortens your life being overweight and the fatter you are, the more it shortens your life and limits your ability to do anything. Pretty straightforward equation.


I eat pizza all the time and Im not overweight. I also eat chocolate yum! I refuse to poison my head space with thoughts of disabling myself every time I eat something not 100% weight-loss friendly. Thats a sure road to crazy making and disordered eating IMO.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It's not about a special diet it's about learning to eat the right things and exercising as well. You need a combination of both to successfully lose the weight and keep it off. A lot of people go on a diet for a couple of months lose some weight and then it goes right back on again once they stop.

Obesity isn't an illness  that's just to make people feel better. I say this as someone who's 5'1" and 200lbs btw.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

ouesi said:


> I eat pizza all the time and Im not overweight. I also eat chocolate yum! I refuse to poison my head space with thoughts of disabling myself every time I eat something not 100% weight-loss friendly. Thats a sure road to crazy making and disordered eating IMO.


But you're probably a healthy weight. Some people have spoken previously about being disabled but with appalling diets, pizza and chocolate being two things mentioned a lot. For me, it _is_ making me disabled and I need to remind myself of what it would be like (was like!) to be unable to get up and simply walk or how it would be to be in a mobility scooter because of what I eat as opposed to an actual illness/disability. I don't want to be reliant on others because of my stupid choices. It's not fair.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Good idea. Obesity is a major cost to the NHS and people living longer means more complicated health issues anyway. A lot less radical than gastric band surgery too, and may help adjust the mindset of the patients referred for it. I do think a lot of overeating is habit and we need reprogramming, something WW is probably quite likely to help for a lot of people.

Its a shame there is no independent/NHS specific service instead of WW. They will be selling crazy amounts of those meals and I'm not sure how good they are nutritionally really.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ouesi said:


> If the weight issue is due to food choices, sure, I can see something like WW helping. But plenty of overweight people are incredibly disciplined and knowledgeable about food. Many are excellent dieters, and loose weight on every diet. What they cant do is maintain the weight loss, and arguably fluctuating your weight is as detrimental to your health as being overweight.
> I also wonder about the food choices with WW (not familiar with SW). Here WW has a whole line of foods from frozen meals to cereals to portions of cakes and cookies. Every last one is processed and preserved out the wazoo and not nutritionally sound, just low in calories.
> I hope your leg is doing better, I remember that - epic indeed!
> 
> I eat pizza all the time and Im not overweight. I also eat chocolate yum! I refuse to poison my head space with thoughts of disabling myself every time I eat something not 100% weight-loss friendly. Thats a sure road to crazy making and disordered eating IMO.


This is what made me start to change my relationship with food, I also started to look at what other people (who were slim & seemed to have a healthy outlook with food) & they ate all foods, nothing was off limits .... just in moderation & not obsessing about it.

I also think we have become confused about portion sizes, some people may be eating well but need to look at what size meals the are having. I also think we don't seem to be able to deal with hunger as we used to. There are so many fast food places, cafes, stalls, etc in towns that is almost encouraging people to eat there & then rather than have to wait. I remember thinking this after stuffing my face one Christmas that I actually couldn't remember what actual hunger was as I was constantly eating.

I could do with losing a stone but am really trying to not beat myself up about it, I am not so worried about how I look as I used to when I was younger but more from a health point of view. I have had back problems over the last few years & any extra weight will not help so I want to lose it mainly for that.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I also wonder about the food choices with WW (not familiar with SW). Here WW has a whole line of foods from frozen meals to cereals to portions of cakes and cookies. Every last one is processed and preserved out the wazoo and not nutritionally sound


Slimming World here in the UK doesn't manufacture any food products it's basically teaching the importance of more of the good stuff, less of the bad stuff.

You can eat as much fresh fruit and veg as you like, eat it till you can't eat anymore! Eat lean meats / fish / meat replacements and then control your "naughty" things like chocolate. Also ensures you have a healthy amount of fiber in your diet ( so things like cereals and breads ) and Dairy ( Eggs / Milk etc)

Slimming world also promotes "body magic" getting off your backside and doing something active


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

smells fishy..WW will make a fortune out of taxpayers money?

I do not believe in classes that you do not choose yourself and make effort to pay for it...

simply many will go once if at all...

stoopid nanny state!!


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Its a shame there is no independent/NHS specific service instead of WW. They will be selling crazy amounts of those meals and I'm not sure how good they are nutritionally really.


The 12 week programme here is run by the NHS. It links to consultants and dieticians if needed. You can do 1:1 or attend group sessions. They offer exercise programmes as well. Is it only area specific then? It is very well publicised and about making small changes.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

cinnamontoast said:


> SW really works. It changes your eating habits and encourages healthier choices by directing you to fill up on 'free' foods. The problem is that people slip up, stop going and they need maintenance, which SW offers.
> 
> Personally, I need the weekly checks or I don't stick to it. I lost eight stones, thought I was fine then piled loads back on when I gave up smoking and had something bad happen. The leg thing exacerbated the weight issue.
> 
> There's no point refusing to talk about it: face up, admit there's a problem and get started on a programme. Food addiction is the same as any other but you can't eliminate it from your life, as someone already said. But every time you put that chocolate or pizza in your mouth, just think about the fact that you are disabling yourself (as I have done) by making it ever harder to move yourself and creating unnecessary strain on your body. It shortens your life being overweight and the fatter you are, the more it shortens your life and limits your ability to do anything. Pretty straightforward equation.


It's food controlling you, the same way an anorexic is controlled by it and need support for a long to truly break the cycle of food controlling you. Both ends up causing things that could be stopped with a normal and healthy attitude to food.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

When I did sw no one ever ate the micro meals, they cost too much and area waste of syns. Even our consultant used to tell us not too the only thing most would buy was the alpine type bars and scan bran


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

LostGirl said:


> When I did sw no one ever ate the micro meals, they cost too much and area waste of syns. Even our consultant used to tell us not too the only thing most would buy was the alpine type bars and scan bran


I didn't know SW ever did micro meals?


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I have to see my GP next week in regards to this. I need to sort myself out.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

LostGirl said:


> It's food controlling you, the same way an anorexic is controlled by it and need support for a long to truly break the cycle of food controlling you. Both ends up causing things that could be stopped with a normal and healthy attitude to food.


But trouble is, loads of people don't have a healthy attitude and it's not something you can suddenly acquire. You have to control it for the rest of your life, like alcoholism.


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

cinnamontoast said:


> But you're probably a healthy weight. Some people have spoken previously about being disabled but with appalling diets, pizza and chocolate being two things mentioned a lot. For me, it _is_ making me disabled and I need to remind myself of what it would be like (was like!) to be unable to get up and simply walk or how it would be to be in a mobility scooter because of what I eat as opposed to an actual illness/disability. I don't want to be reliant on others because of my stupid choices. It's not fair.


I am a healthy weight now (thought what is that exactly?) But I've been 50 pounds heavier thanks to medical issues. (Not all weight gain is due to laziness and overeating.)
I purposely did not try to lose the weight at first, because I know myself, and I know how easily I slip in to OCD crazy behaviors, and I just didnt want to go down that road. Instead I decided that I was going to simply add in healthier foods  foods that I like anyway. The more healthy foods I ate, the less room there was in my diet for filler foods, the better I felt, and the less I was interested in processed nutritionally weak foods. It creates a cycle in the same way poor eating does.

For me, that meant weight loss. My body naturally defaults to a lower weight when everything is in balance. Not every body works the same way. This idea that we all need to look a certain way to be healthy is really absurd when you think about it. Just as labs are not meant to look like whippets and whippets are not meant to look like labs, not all humans are built the same.
So had I not lost weight by changing my eating habits, that would have been okay too. The goal was to feel good, not necessarily lose weight. The big difference is that I based my progress on how I felt, not how much I weighed. That was (and is) enough motivation to keep me eating right and exercising.

And to me, thats the kicker. We base health on what the scale says instead of how the person feels and behaves. You cant separate emotional health from physical health. Someone who is a healthy weight but obsessively exercising and stressing over every bite they put in their mouth is just as susceptible to disease (stress induced) as someone who is stressing themselves physically due to too much weight. 
I think thats the point many of us are trying to make. Its about finding a healthy balance at whatever weight that may be. Health at all sizes


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Symone said:


> Personally I think that this is a good idea, however the person that gets referred will have to want to change their ways.
> I joined slimming world 3 weeks ago now and it has changed my eating habits. I eat far more fruit and veg, use less fatty things and cook more from scratch. I also create snacks from scratch so they're more "slimming world friendly" but also because I would happily pig out on chocolate and pizza the whole day.
> I did try to lose weight with help from my doctor before but he barely helped. Referred me to a woman that couldn't care less and just wanted money.
> 
> ...


You are doing fantastically Symone! You are as much an inspiration to me as I was to you xx


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

ellenlouisepascoe said:


> I didn't know SW ever did micro meals?


Tell the weight watcher or living healthy style ones. When broken down they aren't very food for you at all. SW don'twseem to advertise much at all really, they seem to like you to eat normal every day foods

Exactly Cinnamontoast it's a massive learning curve and hard to keep at it.

I lost 2st 6 lbs before getting pregnant put on less then 6 lbs while pregnant then lost more post natal but got lazy when we came home from hospital so it'sall back on now. My cconfidence has taken a massive blow and I need to kick my self up the arse to get back on to It!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

LostGirl said:


> Tell the weight watcher or living healthy style ones. When broken down they aren't very food for you at all. SW don'twseem to advertise much at all really, they seem to like you to eat normal every day foods
> 
> Exactly Cinnamontoast it's a massive learning curve and hard to keep at it.
> 
> I lost 2st 6 lbs before getting pregnant put on less then 6 lbs while pregnant then lost more post natal but got lazy when we came home from hospital so it'sall back on now. My cconfidence has taken a massive blow and I need to kick my self up the arse to get back on to It!


You've done it before, you know you can do it again, so you go, girl!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> I am a healthy weight now (thought what is that exactly?) But I've been 50 pounds heavier thanks to medical issues. (Not all weight gain is due to laziness and overeating.)
> I purposely did not try to lose the weight at first, because I know myself, and I know how easily I slip in to OCD crazy behaviors, and I just didnt want to go down that road. Instead I decided that I was going to simply add in healthier foods  foods that I like anyway. The more healthy foods I ate, the less room there was in my diet for filler foods, the better I felt, and the less I was interested in processed nutritionally weak foods. It creates a cycle in the same way poor eating does.
> 
> For me, that meant weight loss. My body naturally defaults to a lower weight when everything is in balance. Not every body works the same way. This idea that we all need to look a certain way to be healthy is really absurd when you think about it. Just as labs are not meant to look like whippets and whippets are not meant to look like labs, not all humans are built the same.
> ...


Thank you - this post reminded me of all the great, really healthy foods I love to eat and sent me off to find one of my favourite books - The medicinal chef by Dale Pinnock.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Firedog said:


> I have to see my GP next week in regards to this. I need to sort myself out.


Good for you making that choice , good luck 

I've a couple of stone to shift but being a vegetarian I always wondered how restricted I would be on WW or SW  So going down the exercise and cutting back route , slowly but surly  :huh: :crying: :smilewinkgrin:


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I've been reading a little more about this and I have to say that, even though I have put on weight and struggle with it, it annoys me a bit. NICE guidelines also say that infertility treatment should be offered to all couples and 3 rounds of in vitro but they rarely are. I do agree that weight is emotive but it's often self inflicted. Infertility rarely is self inflicted although weight loss arguably helped conception in some minor cases. I think that PCT's have to be careful what they offering as both are important but motivated by different reasons and I'd always argue that infertility is means more.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Pointermum said:


> Good for you making that choice , good luck
> 
> I've a couple of stone to shift but being a vegetarian I always wondered how restricted I would be on WW or SW  So going down the exercise and cutting back route , slowly but surly  :huh: :crying: :smilewinkgrin:


Slimming world actually has a vegetarian plan  x


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

This article is a fabulous example of our (often incorrect) assumptions about fitness and size.

Teen Tennis Star's Success Is A Powerful Argument Against Body-Shaming


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> I actually don't know one woman who has a healthy relationship with food, most men I know do but not the women ... I think that says a lot about our society unfortunately


Thankfully my daughter does, she listened to her Father not me :smilewinkgrin:


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> Thankfully my daughter does, she listened to her Father not me :smilewinkgrin:


Hubby actually feels an awful lot of anger towards my mother for my relationship with food.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ouesi said:


> This article is a fabulous example of our (often incorrect) assumptions about fitness and size.
> 
> Teen Tennis Star's Success Is A Powerful Argument Against Body-Shaming


I wonder if a male competitor would have been treated in the same way


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

I've done various diets over the years

As a teen, thanks to knees dislocating at a mear sneeze  my mum had me on a strict diet, for packed lunch I would have one slice of bread, the thinnest smidgen of paste and either a apple or banana, needless to say I was starving so any money I had would be spent at the tuck shop or vending machine

It didnt work

The cut everything out diet - fine for a few days, till I started craving those things I wasn't allowing myself, the cravings got so bad I was miserable so I would end up having said food them diet would be over

The 1000 calories sun - fri then sat as a cheat day diet - this worked quite well at first but then got to the point here I was miserable Sunday to Thursday then happy on Friday and even happier on Saturday, I couldn't face going back on it after the Christmas

The 5:2 diet - I thought I would struggle with this from the get go, I thought fast days would be hard from the start but they were easy at the beginning, as I did more they got harder and they started making me feel ill, the weight loss was disheartening too, 7.8lbs in five weeks just didnt seem enough for me considering I was starving 2 days a week

Now - now I've decided not to cut anything, if I want pizza, crisps, chocolate, cake etc I have it, I just count the calories and I try to be sensible the rest of the day, I have one none calorie counting day a week which covers going out for a meal or getting a take away or one of my OHs pasta bakes, I try to eat veg every day and I'm training my body to cope with fruit, I've also become a pescetarian


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm on a free 12 week course at the moment - just a normal dietitian, no pressure to get weighed every week like at sw/ww and no going round the room asking why you've not done well or how well you did. No syns, just normal food and calorie counting. I also watch my fat content as I take Orlistat which gets rid of the fat in the body. I didn't have a good experience at the last sw and don't want to do that again.
I had a go on the scales this morning and I've lost half a stone in two weeks  so that's 3.5 a week I've lost. I've lost a lot of weight before but my problem is keeping it off. Not easy when I have a condition that can make me gain weight, its like I'm fighting against a brick wall all the time.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

MollySmith said:


> I've been reading a little more about this and I have to say that, even though I have put on weight and struggle with it, it annoys me a bit. NICE guidelines also say that infertility treatment should be offered to all couples and 3 rounds of in vitro but they rarely are. I do agree that weight is emotive but it's often self inflicted. Infertility rarely is self inflicted although weight loss arguably helped conception in some minor cases. I think that PCT's have to be careful what they offering as both are important but motivated by different reasons and *I'd always argue that infertility is means more.*


It means more to those who are desperate to conceive of course; but then some overweight people wish to lose weight more than anything so they would argue that bariatric intervention means more. I think we all have to be very careful when going down the "most important" route as I also have something that means far more to me than anything else - all these things are intensely emotive and intensely personal.


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

MollySmith said:


> I've been reading a little more about this and I have to say that, even though I have put on weight and struggle with it, it annoys me a bit. NICE guidelines also say that infertility treatment should be offered to all couples and 3 rounds of in vitro but they rarely are. I do agree that weight is emotive but it's often self inflicted. Infertility rarely is self inflicted although weight loss arguably helped conception in some minor cases. I think that PCT's have to be careful what they offering as both are important but motivated by different reasons and I'd always argue that infertility is means more.


Im not sure what youre saying here, but I dont think that there is a fair comparison between infertility and weight loss struggles. 
From a callous bottom-line POV, improving someones health through proper nutrition (with or without weight loss) can potentially reduce healthcare costs in the long run. A nutrition counselor is way cheaper than heart by-pass surgery.
Infertility treatments arent going to save the NHS any money. In fact with the high incidence of multiples with infertility treatment they may lead to more costs as those types of pregnancies are more high risk.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

MollySmith said:


> I've been reading a little more about this and I have to say that, even though I have put on weight and struggle with it, it annoys me a bit. NICE guidelines also say that infertility treatment should be offered to all couples and 3 rounds of in vitro but they rarely are. I do agree that weight is emotive but it's often self inflicted. Infertility rarely is self inflicted although weight loss arguably helped conception in some minor cases. I think that PCT's have to be careful what they offering as both are important but motivated by different reasons and I'd always argue that infertility is means more.


But we could view everything as 'self inflicted'; smoking related diseases, weight related diseases, even complications during pregnancy could be viewed in this category.

I have completed changed my perception of what we have to contend with regarding the food industry, it's not just about willpower at all, we are being bombarded with unrealistic body images, crap food, large portions, certain additives/high salt contents, etc which can stimulate appetites ... so many things to consider that it is unfair to simply say that people who do have problems with food are self inflicted


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Dogless said:


> Hubby actually feels an awful lot of anger towards my mother for my relationship with food.


I can see why he would feel that way. My dear friend has battled with annorexia and sadly her daughter does too. Again food is so much more than a means of nourishment to some people. They judge and measure their whole life by their weight or lack of it. I think that comes from her Mother's attitude.
I never remember my Mother not being on a diet, but looking back money was short, times where sometimes hard, Dad often on a low salary. I think her diet may have been an excuse to be sure us kids got the best food.


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## suze23 (Jun 3, 2011)

no i dont agree - at all.

[havent read all the thread...]

i dont pay my taxes to support someones lifestyle choice....

i have dieted on juice plus....have also dieted by cutting out crap foods and not going any groups

so no....i totally disagree and this government need to go.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> I can see why he would feel that way. My dear friend has battled with annorexia and sadly her daughter does too.Again food is so much more than a means of nourishment to some people.
> I never remember my Mother not being on a diet, but looking back money was short, times where sometimes hard, Dad often on a low salary. I think her diet may have been an excuse to be sure us kids got the best food.


Mum's was because she had an unhealthy relationship with food handed down from Grandma……I was put on my first diet when I was about 7 I think. Dad also despises even a spare pound here or there (as an underweight man who eats enormous portions of food and is inclined to think all people should be that slim) and would even take my plate off me when he judged that I had had enough - that sort of thing. I was always on enforced diets of one sort or another and yet I was very sporty and a perfectly normal weight. Weight is still mentioned in every phone call we ever have. In a way I think me not having children is a good thing; I would hate to hand down the distorted body image and disordered eating I have and also the fact I am mad . I get in knots about going home as my weight is always appraised and I am always either too thin (you look disgusting, bones sticking out) or too fat (best enjoy this as you'll need to go on a diet when you get back).


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

suze23 said:


> i dont pay my taxes to support someones lifestyle choice....
> 
> .


You actually do

Smokers
Drinkers
Drivers who have an accident
People who cycle who have an accident 
People who play sports
People having kids

All of those are choices that we the tax payer pays for if they need medical treatment (unless they are private)


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Dogless said:


> Mum's was because she had an unhealthy relationship with food handed down from Grandma……I was put on my first diet when I was about 7 I think. Dad also despises even a spare pound here or there (as an underweight man who eats enormous portions of food and is inclined to think all people should be that slim) and would even take my plate off me when he judged that I had had enough - that sort of thing. I was always on enforced diets of one sort or another and yet I was very sporty and a perfectly normal weight. Weight is still mentioned in every phone call we ever have. In a way I think me not having children is a good thing; I would hate to hand down the distorted body image and disordered eating I have and also the fact I am mad .


Sorry like probably not appropriate

Wow that is extreme. My friends mother used to tie a ribbon around their waist and it had to be loose, if it altered they were restricted food, for a few days until it became loose again.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> Sorry like probably not appropriate
> 
> Wow that is extreme.


Liking is perfectly appropriate - I just think it is such a shame that three generations of intelligent and educated women still have this extremely disordered relationship with food. I know a lot about nutrition, cook from scratch, eat clean yet now and again - I will binge, starve, control..and I KNOW it is ridiculous and yet still I will do it. It makes my husband exceptionally angry.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Dogless said:


> Liking is perfectly appropriate - I just think it is such a shame that three generations of intelligent and educated women still have this extremely disordered relationship with food. I know a lot about nutrition, cook from scratch, eat clean yet now and again - I will binge, starve, control..and I KNOW it is ridiculous and yet still I will do it. It makes my husband exceptionally angry.


You & millions of other women unfortunately 

I remember chatting with my ex about this & he really was shocked at how women were with food, the guilt, the bingeing/starving. worrying about getting on scales, etc ... it really was beyond his comprehension & yet had always been in mine ... daily!


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Dogless said:


> Liking is perfectly appropriate - I just think it is such a shame that three generations of intelligent and educated women still have this extremely disordered relationship with food. I know a lot about nutrition, cook from scratch, eat clean yet now and again - I will binge, starve, control..and I KNOW it is ridiculous and yet still I will do it. It makes my husband exceptionally angry.


That does not help you but I understand his feeling that way.

And thus back to the OP I believe it to be a good idea for those seeking help for many reasons.


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

Dogless said:


> Mum's was because she had an unhealthy relationship with food handed down from GrandmaI was put on my first diet when I was about 7 I think. Dad also despises even a spare pound here or there (as an underweight man who eats enormous portions of food and is inclined to think all people should be that slim) and would even take my plate off me when he judged that I had had enough - that sort of thing. I was always on enforced diets of one sort or another and yet I was very sporty and a perfectly normal weight. Weight is still mentioned in every phone call we ever have. In a way I think me not having children is a good thing; I would hate to hand down the distorted body image and disordered eating I have and also the fact I am mad .


Those inner thoughts get paved young for sure...
I lived it vicariously through my poor sister who hit puberty and became my moms target. Lucky me, I was lanky with jutting hipbones no matter what I did. So I was put up as a comparison, offered all the forbidden food - you know the story.... Disfunction junction 

As a mom I am beyond determined to give my kids a least some semblance of a healthy model, and I feel like we do a pretty decent job. The kids love any and all kinds of food, will reach for nutrient rich choices on their own (how many kids do you know who ask for spinach on their sandwich or sun dried tomatoes on their pizza?) Or maybe Im just creating food snobs 

Several years ago, mom was visiting and made a shaming comment to my then 7 year old daughter that she was getting a belly. I was LIVID. For that and many other reasons my kids do not see their grandmother very often at all. No coincidence that we live 1000 miles away! :lol:


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Those inner thoughts get paved young for sure...
> I lived it vicariously through my poor sister who hit puberty and became my moms target. Lucky me, I was lanky with jutting hipbones no matter what I did. So I was put up as a comparison, offered all the forbidden food - you know the story.... Disfunction junction
> 
> As a mom I am beyond determined to give my kids a least some semblance of a healthy model, and I feel like we do a pretty decent job. The kids love any and all kinds of food, will reach for nutrient rich choices on their own (how many kids do you know who ask for spinach on their sandwich or sun dried tomatoes on their pizza?) Or maybe Im just creating food snobs
> ...


My sister is considerably overweight, despises exercise and lives an unhealthy lifestyle - and because she has never given a sh!t about what Mum and Dad think with regards to food she is perfectly happy and left alone with her weight never mentioned.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

suze23 said:


> no i dont agree - at all.
> 
> [havent read all the thread...]
> 
> ...


For some people, being overweight is not a lifestyle choice. I wish I could keep a healthy weight but its a health condition that's making it difficult. And like it whether or not, you are paying towards everything the government pays for, that's including helping smokers to give up as well.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Pointermum said:


> Good for you making that choice , good luck
> 
> I've a couple of stone to shift but being a vegetarian I always wondered how restricted I would be on WW or SW  So going down the exercise and cutting back route , slowly but surly  :huh: :crying: :smilewinkgrin:


Thank you. I had already decided that I needed to do something anyway as I was getting chest pains but last week my stomach exploded as I had a nasty abscess and ended up in hospital, it was the wake up call I needed but the total shame of having to show the doctor my stomach just about finished me off.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> You & millions of other women unfortunately
> 
> I remember chatting with my ex about this & he really was shocked at how women were with food, the guilt, the bingeing/starving. worrying about getting on scales, etc ... it really was beyond his comprehension & yet had always been in mine ... daily!


Yes; I didn't mean I was a special case . If only - because as you say millions of others wouldn't be in the same situation!!!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Firedog said:


> Thank you. I had already decided that I needed to do something anyway as I was getting chest pains but last week my stomach exploded as I had a nasty abscess and ended up in hospital, it was the wake up call I needed but the total shame of having to show the doctor my stomach just about finished me off.


Yikes!!! Some wake up call. Wishing you a swift recovery and successful weight loss .


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

Dogless said:


> My sister is considerably overweight, despises exercise and lives an unhealthy lifestyle - and because she has never given a sh!t about what Mum and Dad think with regards to food she is perfectly happy and left alone with her weight never mentioned.


I have to admit, when I gained weight after surgery, there was an evil part of me that enjoyed seeing my mothers discomfort with my size.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Dogless said:


> Yes; I didn't mean I was a special case . If only - because as you say millions of others wouldn't be in the same situation!!!


Oh no, I didn't think you did ... I just wondered why there are so many intelligent women all with the same insecurities.

Why do we remember all those negative comments that were made so many years ago? Why do we let them still stay with us despite achievements we have made in life?


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

Firedog said:


> Thank you. I had already decided that I needed to do something anyway as I was getting chest pains but last week my stomach exploded as I had a nasty abscess and ended up in hospital, it was the wake up call I needed but the total shame of having to show the doctor my stomach just about finished me off.


Oh Im so sorry! Ouch! Hope you heal up quickly and start feeling better soon


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Oh no, I didn't think you did ... I just wondered why there are so many intelligent women all with the same insecurities.
> 
> Why do we remember all those negative comments that were made so many years ago? Why do we let them still stay with us despite achievements we have made in life?


I reckon if I knew the answers to those questions I would be a billionairess by now .


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

Cleo38 said:


> Oh no, I didn't think you did ... I just wondered why there are so many intelligent women all with the same insecurities.
> 
> *Why do we remember all those negative comments that were made so many years ago? Why do we let them still stay with us despite achievements we have made in life?*


:lol: I believe there have been volumes written on that subject  Naomi Wolfs The Beauty Myth is one of my favorites. Dont get me started or Ill go all Womens Studies on this thread!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I reckon if I knew the answers to those questions I would be a billionairess by now .


Me too!

I must admit I was extra careful about things I said when my niece was growing up. My sister & her husband have done a great job as she is quite happy with herself & is one of the few women I know who doesn't stress over food


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Firedog said:


> Thank you. I had already decided that I needed to do something anyway as I was getting chest pains but last week my stomach exploded as I had a nasty abscess and ended up in hospital, it was the wake up call I needed but the total shame of having to show the doctor my stomach just about finished me off.


Ouch that sounds nasty , I hope your on the mend . Make sure you look after yourself so you can look after those woof-its


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Oh I'm so sorry! Ouch! Hope you heal up quickly and start feeling better soon


Thank you, surgeons did a good job but I have a hole in my tummy that will take about three weeks to heal and I have to have my dressing changed every day and after the amount of oral and intravenous antibiotics I've had I doubt there is a germ left in my body.

It wasn't the fact that it exploded that bothered me, it was the smell of what was coming out of it. Even when poor Bunty had that nasty infection and the hole opened in her neck it never smelt. Poor girl she still hasn't healed properly.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Haven't read the entire thread, just jumping in after reading a couple of pages. Weight loss pills and surgery were offered to me on the NHS because I was so overweight, I declined them. Would have jumped at the offer off Weight Watchers or Slimming World however. Not only do they teach you about better choices when it comes to food but I imagine they cost a hell of a lot less than surgery!

I think people need to stop believing that all of us fatties are fat because we over eat or eat the wrong sort of things. I was 10 stone when I was put on epilepsy medication. Within 6 months, with no change to my diet or my exercise, I was over 16 stone. As the weight started to pile on I joined WW, I stuck to it religiously, I gained 4lbs a week in spite of it. So yeah, you sit there and judge me for the fact I have a "self inflicted" weight problem. Will you judge me even more when I say that I went to the ice cream parlour and had an ice cream this afternoon? 

I've been steadily losing weight for the past 12 months. I was 204lbs at the start of this year, I'm currently 180lbs. I've lost 40lbs so far in all. I'm still fat but it's coming off slowly and steadily. I'm following the same sort of eating plan I did on Weight Watchers, I don't feel restricted at all and it's something that can easily be stuck to for life imo.


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> Haven't read the entire thread, just jumping in after reading a couple of pages. Weight loss pills and surgery were offered to me on the NHS because I was so overweight, I declined them. Would have jumped at the offer off Weight Watchers or Slimming World however. Not only do they teach you about better choices when it comes to food but I imagine they cost a hell of a lot less than surgery!
> 
> I think people need to stop believing that all of us fatties are fat because we over eat or eat the wrong sort of things. I was 10 stone when I was put on epilepsy medication. Within 6 months, with no change to my diet or my exercise, I was over 16 stone. As the weight started to pile on I joined WW, I stuck to it religiously, I gained 4lbs a week in spite of it. So yeah, you sit there and judge me for the fact I have a "self inflicted" weight problem. Will you judge me even more when I say that I went to the ice cream parlour and had an ice cream this afternoon?
> 
> I've been steadily losing weight for the past 12 months. I was 204lbs at the start of this year, I'm currently 180lbs. I've lost 40lbs so far in all. I'm still fat but it's coming off slowly and steadily. I'm following the same sort of eating plan I did on Weight Watchers, I don't feel restricted at all and it's something that can easily be stuck to for life imo.


A young woman I know has gained a good bit of weight seemingly overnight because of seizure meds. Its hard enough having seizures, the weight scrutiny is unfair and just plain sucks. 
On the other end, a different friend lost a lot of weight during chemotherapy. People who didnt know what was going on would congratulate her on the weight loss. Can you imagine Oh, you look so good, what have you been doing? Uh... trying not to die of cancer?


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I was called a fat slag in the street whilst I was on steriods to correct gynae problems. I gained two stone very quickly. My response was at least I could change my weight, he could never change his butt ugly face. Still hurt so much though.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Firedog said:


> Thank you. I had already decided that I needed to do something anyway as I was getting chest pains but last week my stomach exploded as I had a nasty abscess and ended up in hospital, it was the wake up call I needed but the total shame of having to show the doctor my stomach just about finished me off.


Holy heck, girl!! Internal or external? I hope it heals super quick. Give it a gentle shower, it needs to be super clean.



Sarah1983 said:


> Haven't read the entire thread, just jumping in after reading a couple of pages. Weight loss pills and surgery were offered to me on the NHS because I was so overweight, I declined them. Would have jumped at the offer off Weight Watchers or Slimming World however. Not only do they teach you about better choices when it comes to food but I imagine they cost a hell of a lot less than surgery!
> 
> I think people need to stop believing that all of us fatties are fat because we over eat or eat the wrong sort of things. I was 10 stone when I was put on epilepsy medication. Within 6 months, with no change to my diet or my exercise, I was over 16 stone. As the weight started to pile on I joined WW, I stuck to it religiously, I gained 4lbs a week in spite of it. So yeah, you sit there and judge me for the fact I have a "self inflicted" weight problem. Will you judge me even more when I say that I went to the ice cream parlour and had an ice cream this afternoon?
> 
> I've been steadily losing weight for the past 12 months. I was 204lbs at the start of this year, I'm currently 180lbs. I've lost 40lbs so far in all. I'm still fat but it's coming off slowly and steadily. I'm following the same sort of eating plan I did on Weight Watchers, I don't feel restricted at all and it's something that can easily be stuck to for life imo.


I don't think anyone is on about weight gain brought on by medical issues. The point was surely that some people are addicted, have an unhealthy relationship with food (dunno if this classes as medical?) it's not 'self inflicted' if it's because of a medical problem over which you have zero control or meds that put weight on.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ouesi said:


> A young woman I know has gained a good bit of weight seemingly overnight because of seizure meds. Its hard enough having seizures, the weight scrutiny is unfair and just plain sucks.
> On the other end, a different friend lost a lot of weight during chemotherapy. People who didnt know what was going on would congratulate her on the weight loss. Can you imagine Oh, you look so good, what have you been doing? Uh... trying not to die of cancer?


That's why I don't ever comment on anyone's weight, ever. Not only do I think it is rude to do so but might never know the reasons for them losing/putting on weight. If I am being invited to comment (usually from someone who has lost weight & is proud if their achievement) then I will as I want them to feel good about themselves.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> But we could view everything as 'self inflicted'; smoking related diseases, weight related diseases, even complications during pregnancy could be viewed in this category.
> 
> I have completed changed my perception of what we have to contend with regarding the food industry, it's not just about willpower at all, we are being bombarded with unrealistic body images, crap food, large portions, certain additives/high salt contents, etc which can stimulate appetites ... so many things to consider that it is unfair to simply say that people who do have problems with food are self inflicted


My weight gain was due to steriod meds. Steriods and other IVF drugs make one gain weight. Added to this (being completely brutally confessional) after miscarriages I drank too much and ate too much to keep my husband away from me so there was no chance I'd ever be pregnant or miscarry. So no, I don't think weight gain is self inflicted. In some cases it's emotionally led as I've done and sometimes through other circumstances as with the medication I have taken. I've seen it from both sides.

I guess I wasn't very clear in what I said and it's a tough subject to get right, especially on a forum but I'll try again as I do agree with you. We're all prey to media be that the examples you've given and conversely those myths of liquid diets like Lighterlife, W8 and Celebrity Slim (I've done the latter two, honestly I was an anti social, flatulent cow throughout both and gained the weight as soon as I looked at a slice of bread).

I guess what I mean is that NICE are promising so much and in many PCT's failing to deliver at time when so many are in need. If PCTS aren't offering the invitro treatment which was meant to have been offered years ago, where on earth are they affording this? In balancing the books may neglect one for another and whilst neither are measurable as problem cannot be compared, I would be very curious to know how this costs up.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

MollySmith said:


> My weight gain was due to steriod meds. Steriods and other IVF drugs make one gain weight. Added to this (being completely brutally confessional) after miscarriages I drank too much and ate too much to keep my husband away from me so there was no chance I'd ever be pregnant or miscarry. So no, I don't think weight gain is self inflicted. In some cases it's emotionally led as I've done and sometimes through other circumstances as with the medication I have taken. I've seen it from both sides.
> 
> I guess I wasn't very clear in what I said and it's a tough subject to get right, especially on a forum but I'll try again as I do agree with you. We're all prey to media be that the examples you've given and conversely those myths of liquid diets like Lighterlife, W8 and Celebrity Slim (I've done the latter two, honestly I was an anti social, flatulent cow throughout both and gained the weight as soon as I looked at a slice of bread).
> 
> I guess what I mean is that NICE are promising so much and in many PCT's failing to deliver at time when so many are in need. If PCTS aren't offering the invitro treatment which was meant to have been offered years ago, where on earth are they affording this? In balancing the books may neglect one for another and whilst neither are measurable as problem cannot be compared, I would be very curious to know how this costs up.


I agree, & that's sort of what I was saying ... or trying to .... weight gain or loss can be for so many reasons, can be so variable, can reflect how we feel about ourselves, is never easy to understand & is far more complicated than simply eating too much or too little

So sorry to hear about what you have had to go through


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Mine has been doing the scheme I mentioned for ages. I would imagine they have done a cost anaylsis and believe it will save them money in the long term. I think the way that my PCT does it though is better than just referring you to WW or SW. I imagine it is more expensive though.


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## Pawscrossed (Jul 2, 2013)

I have only skimmed through this thread. I have lost weight on Slimming World online as there aren't any classes close to me. I did like it very much but I meet lots of people who just turned up for a chat. I lost a stone, then after a period of depression set me back, I went back after 6 months and they were still there weighing in the same and seemingly no smaller :huh: 

I do appreciate the concern over health authorities offering this solution. Twelve weeks at an average of 2lbs a week (the recommended or suggested WW and SW weekly loss) amounts to 24lbs I guess which does make a big health difference but one has to want to continue to a target weight to succeed and have the funds to do that. It is hard to lose 24lbs but very easy to put it back on and then it becomes a waste of money for the authorities when it could have been spent on other things that may have a more permanent effect. My weight has stayed off and remained off but not through weight loss programmes like this but through exercise and eating a low calorie diet with the odd treat day here and there


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

cinnamontoast said:


> I don't think anyone is on about weight gain brought on by medical issues. The point was surely that some people are addicted, have an unhealthy relationship with food (dunno if this classes as medical?) it's not 'self inflicted' if it's because of a medical problem over which you have zero control or meds that put weight on.


But people don't think of medical issues when they see a fat person. Believe me, I've lost count of the number of times I've had people comment about my weight and how they could never let themselves get like this etc. And yes people have mentioned weight problems being self inflicted on here before now. I've also been told by a few people in real life that my diabetes is self inflicted, all my own fault because I'm fat and clearly didn't eat a good diet.

Seizures do suck Ouesi and the fact that so many of the meds to counter them seem to cause weight gain also sucks. The doctors were adamant the one I was on (Keppra) doesn't cause weight gain yet I gained massively and so did many, many others on epilepsy forums, facebook groups etc on it.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

People who do think being over weight is always self inflicted look up thrifty genotypes


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> I agree, & that's sort of what I was saying ... or trying to .... weight gain or loss can be for so many reasons, can be so variable, can reflect how we feel about ourselves, is never easy to understand & is far more complicated than simply eating too much or too little
> 
> So sorry to hear about what you have had to go through


Apologies for not being very clear in my post  Weight is a very difficult subject to talk about in general.

And yes it's all so personal. I graduate tomorrow and what am I thinking of? How fat I'll look in the photos, not what I've studied.  (I can't find a kick myself up the ar$e smiley!)


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Sometimes being big is self inflicted but not all the time


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

A lot of the time it is self-inflicted, there are medical issues obviously slow metabolism, medications etc but that's not everyone who's overweight.


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

Meh... when it comes down to it, you could make a convincing argument for most medical issues being self-inflicted.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> A lot of the time it is self-inflicted, there are medical issues obviously slow metabolism, medications etc but that's not everyone who's overweight.


Thrifty genotype makes for a good evolutionary hypothesis makes interesting reading


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## Guest (May 30, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> Thrifty genotype makes for a good evolutionary hypothesis makes interesting reading


Which circles back to focusing on physical and mental health, not weight. Plenty of healthy weight people are physically and emotionally very unhealthy, and plenty of overweight people have excellent physical and emotional health. Look at the pro tennis player I posted about. She is a big girl yet way fitter than your average weekend warrior!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> A lot of the time it is self-inflicted, there are medical issues obviously slow metabolism, medications etc but that's not everyone who's overweight.


Oh of course it's not everyone. But people should give it a thought before judging someone imo.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

MollySmith said:


> Apologies for not being very clear in my post  Weight is a very difficult subject to talk about in general.
> 
> And yes it's all so personal. I graduate tomorrow and what am I thinking of? How fat I'll look in the photos, not what I've studied.  (I can't find a kick myself up the ar$e smiley!)


Congratulations, hope you have a great day!!!

.... And yes you do need a kick up the @rse smiley, you have so much to be proud of which is far more important! :thumbup1:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I've just realised (speaking to my brother) that the classes he has been going to are ones he was referred to by the NHS. They're not WW, but that was an option he said. Its just a group of people who meet up weekly and set goals and help motivate each other. In just over three months he has lost 22kgs (almost 3.5 stone). He is a PhD student and struggles with stress a fair bit since starting and he was putting weight on. Massive transformation for him and he is so much happier already.


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## conehead (Jun 16, 2010)

I totally disagree with this. The vast vast majority of overweight people have only themselves to blame. Eat less, move more. If you open your mouth and stuff it with more food than you need, they you are to blame. There is more than enough information around these days on healthy eating. And it doesn't cost the earth. Buying and cooking from scratch is cheaper than buying fatty junk foods.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

A good idea, but I do believe lots of people eat for other reasons and it would help if these reasons were addressed before hand .


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

conehead said:


> I totally disagree with this. The vast vast majority of overweight people have only themselves to blame. Eat less, move more. If you open your mouth and stuff it with more food than you need, they you are to blame. There is more than enough information around these days on healthy eating. And it doesn't cost the earth. Buying and cooking from scratch is cheaper than buying fatty junk foods.


It's fine to disagree but it's hard to ignore facts about obesity. People rarely inflict it on themselves with out underlying problems/conditions. Little bit of research and you can understand much more than cast judgement on the 'vast' amount of obese people


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## Guest (May 31, 2014)

conehead said:


> I totally disagree with this. The vast vast majority of overweight people have only themselves to blame. Eat less, move more. If you open your mouth and stuff it with more food than you need, they you are to blame. There is more than enough information around these days on healthy eating. And it doesn't cost the earth. Buying and cooking from scratch is cheaper than buying fatty junk foods.


And people who smoke only have themselves to blame when they end up with sick lungs needing treatment.
And daredevils only have themselves to blame when they end up with broken bones needing treatment and therapy.
And pregnant women only have themselves to blame when their pregnancies have complications.

It is my understanding that the NHS pays for all of the above does it not? So where do you draw the line?


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

conehead said:


> IBuying and cooking from scratch is cheaper than buying fatty junk foods.


Disagree

We spent over £100 at asda yesterday on mostly healthy things

Yet frozen food from iceland which is considered junk we spend £50-70


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

conehead said:


> I totally disagree with this. The vast vast majority of overweight people have only themselves to blame. Eat less, move more. If you open your mouth and stuff it with more food than you need, they you are to blame. There is more than enough information around these days on healthy eating. And it doesn't cost the earth. Buying and cooking from scratch is cheaper than buying fatty junk foods.


I'm afraid eat less and move more simply doesn't work for a lot of people, me included. There are so many other reasons why people may be overweight.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

paddyjulie said:


> A good idea, but I do believe lots of people eat for other reasons and it would help if these reasons were addressed before hand .


This is what I said to my OH the other day when we watched that show about the man who ate himself to death, my OH said "just make him eat less" I said it wouldn't work long term because you have to address his other issues


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

To be fair, people can't keep sympathising with all people who are obese. I certainly won't.

Sure there are some people who are obese due to genuine health issues. The sort where they are disabled but put on weight easy so hard to not pile on pounds and then shift it off through exercise. Etc. Etc. Etc.

But some people are fat because they choose to be. End of.

Saying people have no will to stop being a pig, they are emotional people so eat more as a way too cope, they are depressed so eat as a way to cope, they think they are ugly and their body is, so they gorge on food more is not fair when you won't apply that to other things.

Using these as excuses. Then shall we use those excuses to people who are highly emotional, get tempted, have no will to say no, are depressed, with alcohol, cigarettes, sex, etc?

Yes, I don't dismiss for one moment there are people obese because it is beyond their control. But to apply it to all obese people because the obese people themselves cannot take blame or even admit that some people bring it on themselves is stupid. 

I smoke. I am an idiot because I smoke. No other excuses. I get stressed when I stop. No excuse really. I am still an idiot and I know that. I don't want sympathy and I won't put the blame on something else.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

conehead said:


> I totally disagree with this. The vast vast majority of overweight people have only themselves to blame. Eat less, move more. If you open your mouth and stuff it with more food than you need, they you are to blame. There is more than enough information around these days on healthy eating. And it doesn't cost the earth. Buying and cooking from scratch is cheaper than buying fatty junk foods.


vast vast majority? ok


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Blackcats said:


> To be fair, people can't keep sympathising with all people who are obese. I certainly won't.
> 
> Sure there are some people who are obese due to genuine health issues. The sort where they are disabled but put on weight easy so hard to not pile on pounds and then shift it off through exercise. Etc. Etc. Etc.
> 
> ...


I agree some people are obese purely due to what they eat.

However if they think it's an issue and raise it with the GP do they deserve help such as Ww or support groups? No? Well as a national insurance contributors it will cost much much more in treating long term condition than paying a few hundreds pounds max in slimming groups. other self inflicted condition such as smoking related conditions are given support so why not obesity? Heart disease is the uks biggest killer so something needs to Change


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## Guest (May 31, 2014)

Healthier food costs way more than junk, for me cooking from scratch can cost pretty much double the amount it would cost to buy a ready meal.

I'm overweight, due to a health condition which makes my hormones fluctuate. It used to be very difficult for me to lose weight, in fact it was nigh on impossible. When I sorted the fluctuating hormones I started to be able to lose a healthy amount each week. There are various medical conditions alongside medications which can cause a person to put on weight even if they have not changed their eating habits. I went from a healthy weight to being clinically obese within 6 months due to this medical condition. I absolutely hated it as my body changed so much. However, I've learnt to live with it and I am now half way to my original weight. I used to be able to eat anything I wanted and would not put on a pound, now I have to be so careful with what I eat, controlling every bit of my diet to make sure I lose at least a pound every week.

I hate how expensive healthy food is too.  If I did a food shop in Asda just buying ready meals, junk food etc etc it would cost half the amount I pay to buy fresh and healthy stuff. 

As for the original post, I think it's a good thing that GPs can refer patients to WW or SW. I know they've been referring to WW for a while as saw an advert for it a while back.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

ClaireLouise said:


> I agree some people are obese purely due to what they eat.
> 
> However if they think it's an issue and raise it with the GP do they deserve help such as Ww or support groups? No? Well as a national insurance contributors it will cost much much more in treating long term condition than paying a few hundreds pounds max in slimming groups. other self inflicted condition such as smoking related conditions are given support so why not obesity? Heart disease is the uks biggest killer so something needs to Change


Of course they do, just like the support given to smokers, alcoholics and the like, etc.

I am all for supporting obese people. But some people on this thread really are playing all innocent and making out every single obese person cannot help it and it is not their fault. That is what I am going up against.

Admitting is the first step to tackling a problem.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Blackcats said:


> Of course they do, just like the support given to smokers, alcoholics and the like, etc.
> 
> I am all for supporting obese people. But some people on this thread really are playing all innocent and making out every single obese person cannot help it and it is not their fault. That is what I am going up against.
> 
> Admitting is the first step to tackling a problem.


Sometimes it's self inflicted but mostly some underlying problems contribute whether physical, psychological or sociological. Do you think a person without any underlying conditions would eat themselves to the point of putting their life at serious risk if the could help it ?


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## Guest (May 31, 2014)

Blackcats said:


> Of course they do, just like the support given to smokers, alcoholics and the like, etc.
> 
> I am all for supporting obese people. *But some people on this thread really are playing all innocent and making out every single obese person cannot help it and it is not their fault. *That is what I am going up against.
> 
> Admitting is the first step to tackling a problem.


I havent read the thread *that* carefully, but I havent seen anyone with the attitude you describe in the bolded?

Ill be the first to admit, staying slim is fairly easy for me. My body easily defaults to a slimmer size with just a few easy tweaks in my diet. Many of my friends make similar changes with zero change in their size. 
Current research is pointing more and more to there being far more to the weight issue than the calories in/calories out equation would suggest. There IS more to it than just eating less.


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

I AGREE - it would & does cost me a heck of a lot more to buy & make stuff from scratch than it does to buy ready made

I can buy a family size lasagne for £2.50 from Iceland or Farmfoods (i dont coz i dont eat mince)

To make from scratch 

Lasagne sheets £1 (on offer)
Vegi mince £1.50 (when its 2 for £3)
2 tins tomato (i buy napolina as its no salt) £1.98

Im ALREADY at way over the Frozen price before i add mushrooms CHEESE !!! etc 

Same with Spag Bol - you can buy 3 tins for £2 in ASDA (even if i ate it i wouldnt it looks gross) or a family size frozen one for £2 ish 
Cottage/shepherds pie - same
Pizza - 2 asda create your own is £4 - i cant make a healthy (ish) pizza for less than that
I ONCE & only ONCE made homemade tomato soup - LOVED IT - didnt enjoy the cost of it !!!
Home made Cheese & Onion pie even using ready roll pastry (i cant make pastry) costs more than a 4 pk of hollands pie & even more than a 4 pk of cheep asda pie 

SO JUNK food is WAY more cost effective for the average family than home made 

I USED to make 90% of my meals myself - pie pizza soup broth Spag bol lasagne fish pie etc etc etc - sadly NOW it is 60% ready made (or fish pieces chicken nuggets frozen pie etc) as it just is not possible for me to afford the fresh

Im not inc crisp biscuit ice cream pop etc as to me they are totally unneccessary for any diet & I dont buy many of them at all 

Today my shopping came to a little over £45 & that was for lunches for next week (school) fruit & veg salad milk butter & fresh juice & cheese - maybe £10 went on "stuff" like tonic water wash stuff & "junk"


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Blackcats said:


> I am all for supporting obese people. But some people on this thread really are playing all innocent and making out every single obese person cannot help it and it is not their fault. That is what I am going up against.


I've never said that, I just said not all people are obese due to simply overeating.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Donut76 said:


> Im not inc crisp biscuit ice cream pop etc as to me they are totally unneccessary for any diet & I dont buy many of them at all


Lasagne, cottage pie, spaghetti Bol and pizza are unnecessary for a diet too


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

ClaireLouise said:


> Sometimes it's self inflicted but mostly some underlying problems contribute whether physical, psychological or sociological. Do you think a person without any underlying conditions would eat themselves to the point of putting their life at serious risk if the could help it ?


Then let's apply that to people who smoke and drink as well then?

And genuinely no, I don't think 100% that it is down to psychological issues with it, as well as sociological, etc.

I am more than happy for you to back the claims up though and prove that it is what you say.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Lasagne, cottage pie, spaghetti Bol and pizza are unnecessary for a diet too


Unless cooked properly from fresh


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> Unless cooked properly from fresh


Not even then


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Not even then


I'm afraid you're wrong.

As said before, cooked properly, using fresh ingredients with the correct tweaks here and there, (no oil, etc.), these can be part of a healthy diet.

My Daughter in Law is a very slim and healthy girl and she cooks everything from scratch, including these kind of meals.

She gets a lot of exercise and is very healthy.

I'm afraid no diet in the World will work if you spend the entire day on your backside.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Blackcats said:


> Then let's apply that to people who smoke and drink as well then?
> 
> And genuinely no, I don't think 100% that it is down to psychological issues with it, as well as sociological, etc.
> 
> I am more than happy for you to back the claims up though and prove that it is what you say.


The reason people smoke and drink excessively is called addiction. Food is addictive too and that's fact. 
Look up thirsty genotypes which relates to the current state of obesity and evolution. Lots of good journals support the treatments and causes of obesity. I did post some link early in the thread regarding cost and treatments.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I've lost my weight now but can tell you for sure it was not by eating less and moving more. Also I started to gain weight in the first place when I started working nights as a nurse, 7 on, 7 off for years. Messed my metabolism up completely as it does with many many shift workers. I never had a weight issue until my mid 30's, up until then I was 7.5 - 8 stone at 5 ft 6, a size 8 and you could see my ribs. I ended up 13.5 stone and a size 16 despite doing all my own cooking from scratch, eating my 5 - 7 fruit/veg a day, not eating junk food (last had a takeaway over 10 years ago) etc etc. I probably eat more now than I did then but have to watch/limit my carb intake as I just don't deal with carbs very well.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Not even then


I am right. I've done it successfully.


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> Unless cooked properly from fresh





tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Not even then


Spag Bol is very healthy when cooked fresh all it is is tomatoes, mushrooms, peppers, onions, mixed herbs and lean mince or even healthier with quorn.


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

Well im being very naughty today sod the diet sod the weight sod everything 

I have been in pain (more than normal) ALL week - cant walk let alone exercise 
My legs are a mess atm aching & hurting - my knees are totally wrecked & im pissed off with it all 
Ive worked 5 evenings out of 7

SO Ive watched peabody & Sherman in my bed with my little monsters & my doggie for company & im now watching Game of Thrones with my second can of beer (i drink wine normally put pah) & ive had Icecream 

Feel tipsy (lightweight) but happier with life 

OHHH & ive lost almost a Stone this year


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Sweety said:


> I'm afraid you're wrong.
> 
> As said before, cooked properly, using fresh ingredients with the correct tweaks here and there, (no oil, etc.), these can be part of a healthy diet.
> 
> ...


That food isn't needed though, could eat something else

My OH has managed 44 years never having had lasagne, spaghetti Bol or cottage pie

*I would believe that if I hadn't lost 17.4lbs since being on my diet* ok so it's coming off slower than it would it I was exercising but at least it's coming off


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I've lost my weight now but can tell you for sure it was not by eating less and moving more. Also I started to gain weight in the first place when I started working nights as a nurse, 7 on, 7 off for years. Messed my metabolism up completely as it does with many many shift workers. I never had a weight issue until my mid 30's, up until then I was 7.5 - 8 stone at 5 ft 6, a size 8 and you could see my ribs. I ended up 13.5 stone and a size 16 despite doing all my own cooking from scratch, eating my 5 - 7 fruit/veg a day, not eating junk food (last had a takeaway over 10 years ago) etc etc. I probably eat more now than I did then but have to watch/limit my carb intake as I just don't deal with carbs very well.


Working permanent night is a proven cause of many health related conditions. I'm always surprised given the facts people are still alloWed to work permanent nights


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> I'm afraid you're wrong.
> 
> As said before, cooked properly, using fresh ingredients with the correct tweaks here and there, (no oil, etc.), these can be part of a healthy diet.
> 
> ...


 Just to say a ketogenic diet will. Thats what I did. No exercise required : :thumbup1:


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Lasagne, cottage pie, spaghetti Bol and pizza are unnecessary for a diet too


ummm i can understand pizza but seriously not understanding the spag bol lasagne or Cottage pie

I use VEGI mince (so as healthy as possible)
When i DO make it (i refuse to by frozen) It is with FRESH ingredients (Vegi mince doesnt need frying off so less fat) So its got everything in it that is needed & IF (i dont) you use LOW FAT CHEESE - then even better - i dont use low fat cheese as PERSONALLY i find it discusting & seeing as i dont eat meat dont drink milk or eat yogurts etc etc etc then Full Fat cheese isnt really that bad (even my DIETICIAN has said the same thing)

Crisp chocolate pop cake isnt needed AT ALL (but nice as a treat) Not really understanding what you are meaning with your comment tbh


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> Working permanent night is a proven cause of many health related conditions. I'm always surprised given the facts people are still alloWed to work permanent nights


This was in the mid 90's - mid 00's though so I think they have changed things since and have tried to stop permanent nights in most hospitals. Even people who to regular nights on a rota though can end up with problems as a result. I'm lucky it didn't mess up my sleep as it does to many people.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Donut76 said:


> ummm i can understand pizza but seriously not understanding the spag bol lasagne or Cottage pie
> 
> I use VEGI mince (so as healthy as possible)
> When i DO make it (i refuse to by frozen) It is with FRESH ingredients with NO FAT (Vegi mince doesnt need frying off) So its got everything in it that is needed & IF (i dont) you use LOW FAT CHEESE - then even better - i dont use low fat cheese as PERSONALLY i find it discusting & seeing as i dont eat meat dont drink milk or eat yogurts etc etc etc then Full Fat cheese isnt really that bad (even my DIETICIAN has said the same thing)
> ...


I mean what I say, it's not needed, something else could be had in their place

Could say that for most food, me and my OH don't eat red meat or poultry so we could say they aren't needed, I'm sure veggies and vegans would agree


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> This was in the mid 90's - mid 00's though so I think they have changed things since and have tried to stop permanent nights in most hospitals. Even people who to regular nights on a rota though can end up with problems as a result. I'm lucky it didn't mess up my sleep as it does to many people.


Must have played a nightmare with the melatonin


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

I worked mainly nights for 4 yrs in my early 20's then i had 2 babies one after the other (13 months apart) & my second baby didnt sleep thru the night till she was 3 1/2 yrs old - lots of missed meals or wrong meals or night time snacks eating my tea at 9pm coz baby(s) hadnt stopped crying puking or whatever all day (i think she had colic & reflux but didnt get any help) cant say it was an easy 4yrs with the babies - not overly complaining people have it TONNES worse - but dont think it helped - until my early 20's i think i was probably about a size 10 - then i got FAT - FAST


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

conehead said:


> I totally disagree with this. The vast vast majority of overweight people have only themselves to blame. Eat less, move more. If you open your mouth and stuff it with more food than you need, they you are to blame. There is more than enough information around these days on healthy eating. And it doesn't cost the earth. Buying and cooking from scratch is cheaper than buying fatty junk foods.





ouesi said:


> And people who smoke only have themselves to blame when they end up with sick lungs needing treatment.
> And daredevils only have themselves to blame when they end up with broken bones needing treatment and therapy.
> And pregnant women only have themselves to blame when their pregnancies have complications.
> 
> It is my understanding that the NHS pays for all of the above does it not? So where do you draw the line?


I think Ouesi answered Conehead's post perfectly, and I just want to highlight it. In the UK we are privileged enough to have the NHS, a service which (whilst heavily criticised) aims not discriminate, excluding clinical need.

I really think these classes are a fantastic idea. Not only are they less invasive than the likes of surgery, but I imagine they are really quite cheap to offer in comparison to supporting obesity related health conditions.

NHS England had just under a £96bn budget for the year 2013/2014. Do you know what a 12 week course of these classes is for one person? £50. Do you know the average cost to the NHS of a Did Not Attend for just one outpatient appointment? £108. Do you know how many patients Did Not Attend outpatient appts last year? 6.9 MILLION. If someone makes a conscious effort to ask for help with their weight and is prepared to go to 12 weeks of classes, then I am very pleased the NHS is able to offer this to them. Like Ouesi highlighted, it doesn't matter how much or how little money you have, nor how you become unwell. Good health is a basic right in this country and I thank God it is not up to some of the people on this forum to decide who should and shouldn't be entitled to treatment.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Going to admit that I've not read the entire thread 
But from the bits I did I think Goldenshadow has said it all brilliantly 



GoldenShadow said:


> I think Ouesi answered Conehead's post perfectly, and I just want to highlight it. In the UK we are privileged enough to have the NHS, a service which (whilst heavily criticised) aims not discriminate, excluding clinical need.
> 
> I really think these classes are a fantastic idea. Not only are they less invasive than the likes of surgery, but I imagine they are really quite cheap to offer in comparison to supporting obesity related health conditions.
> 
> NHS England had just under a £96bn budget for the year 2013/2014. Do you know what a 12 week course of these classes is for one person? £50. Do you know the average cost to the NHS of a Did Not Attend for just one outpatient appointment? £108. Do you know how many patients Did Not Attend outpatient appts last year? 6.9 MILLION. If someone makes a conscious effort to ask for help with their weight and is prepared to go to 12 weeks of classes, then I am very pleased the NHS is able to offer this to them. Like Ouesi highlighted, it doesn't matter how much or how little money you have, nor how you become unwell. Good health is a basic right in this country and I thank God it is not up to some of the people on this forum to decide who should and shouldn't be entitled to treatment.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Blackcats said:


> Of course they do, just like the support given to smokers, alcoholics and the like, etc.
> 
> I am all for supporting obese people. But some people on this thread really are playing all innocent and making out every single obese person cannot help it and it is not their fault. That is what I am going up against.
> 
> Admitting is the first step to tackling a problem.


I haven't seen anybody say this. What people have said is that not all obese people are that way simply because they're greedy, have no self control or any of the other things people so often automatically assume.

As for healthy food costing so much more than junk, can't say I've found that in the long run personally. Sure I may be able to buy a ready meal for less than a bag of potatoes, a pack of chicken breasts and some veg for example but that ready meal will do one person one meal, the other stuff will do a meal for several people or one person several meals.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Its years since I ate a ready meal but one of the things I remember most about them is how quickly you are hungry again afterwards, they are just not filling. Shepherds pie for instance, a packet one looks like a plate of slop whereas a good homemade one is substantial and filling and really doesn't cost much to make.


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Its years since I ate a ready meal but one of the things I remember most about them is how quickly you are hungry again afterwards, they are just not filling. Shepherds pie for instance, a packet one looks like a plate of slop whereas a good homemade one is substantial and filling and really doesn't cost much to make.


It still costs more (for most things) than bunging something in the microwave & this is why "junk" foods will always sell & children will always be eating them - when you can get a Smartprice bag of frozen chips for a little over pound that will last 3-4 meals OR a bag of fresh potatoes for £3 - for a struggling family its easy to see why they choose the chips (I dont buy them as A) I think they taste like cardboard & B) we dont eat many chips 
ONE meals worth of fresh fish (for 4) costs more than 30 smart price fish cakes 24 smart price fish fingers & a bag of chips & maybe some cheep sausages 
A lot of people (not necessarily on here) think that "fat people/kids" eat lots of crisps chocolate sweets & stuff - when in reality most of them just have poor food choices due to the amount of cash they physically have for shopping


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It does cost a little more to buy fresh than the really cheap ready meals. There are so many people who just can't be bothered cooking a meal or don't understand how quick and easy it can be because they've never been taught how.

One of those Jaime Oliver shows a while back there was this family the 2 and 5 year olds had never eaten a homecooked meal, all takeaways and ready meals. Mostly because the parents didn't know how easy it could be to cook.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Its years since I ate a ready meal but one of the things I remember most about them is how quickly you are hungry again afterwards, they are just not filling. Shepherds pie for instance, a packet one looks like a plate of slop whereas a good homemade one is substantial and filling and really doesn't cost much to make.


Yes! I always found the same. Not at all filling. And they don't taste particularly nice for the most part either.

My hubby has huge portions but a cottage pie to do us 2 main meals each (would easily do 6-8 me sized portions) costs around a fiver for all the ingredients and some of them go further than the cottage pie. Same with a basic spag bol or stew. A roasted chicken does us both a roast dinner then sandwiches for a couple of days. I don't find it cheaper to cook meals from scratch but I don't find it more expensive either.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I cook from scratch every day. Very rare we have a takeaway....mainly cos the nearest one is 7 miles away and they are expensive so only for a real treat.

I have twin grand daughters aged 9. Their mum is a chef and makes fancy foods all day long.. I have another grand child who is 3. I see all 3 children every day.

None of them eat what I would call healthy foods. Its not that they are not used to it, they don't like it. They consider KFC or McDonalds to be the best and will always eat these.

Out of the 3 children, only 1 will eat veg. 2 will eat some fruits, the 3 year old won't touch anything fruit or veg apart from chips and ketchup.

They will eat plenty yoghourt and drink milk.

9 year old twins were on school dinners til very recently but now gone on to sandwiches cos they chose the same thing every day from a very good school dinner menu and were constantly coming home hungry.

They would love to come home every day and watch TV but they are not allowed....and they resent it something shameful.

We had a BBQ this evening. Had all home made stuff.

potato salad, boiled eggs, salmon burgers, beef burgers, spicy corned beef rice, chopped salad with pomegranate,bread and butter, BBQd baby vine tomatoes,BBqd fresh pineapple, strawberries and cream. Twins asked if there was anything else..so their mum found a pack of battered sausages in the freezer and made that for them and the 3 year old said everything was yuk and he wanted yoghourt. Twins then ate the strawberries but no cream.

The battered sauasages smell awful but went down a treat and I am sure if pizza had been available, the lot would have been eaten without any comment.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

We have private medical insurance through work and something similar is available, half price WW then total refund if you reach your target weight. So presumably its cost effective if the private sector do it too

Two of the staff joined, one (she was more plump than obese though) has lost 2 stone since January - she doesn't buy the weight watchers food just changed eating habits. The other lady doesn't seem to have done so well, she was/is obese though and eats a lot of ready meals


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> The other lady doesn't seem to have done so well, she was/is obese though and eats a lot of ready meals


The ready meals, even the weight watchers ones, have a lot more sugar in them to make up for the less fat.


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