# Problems grooming my Border Collie.....



## Sunnerlee (May 27, 2009)

Hi All, I am here to get some much need advice regarding grooming my Border Collie Riley. Short History: I have had him since he was 3 months old, He originally came from a farm in Ireland where he was found locked in a shed with his brothers and sisters. I adopted him from a local rescue and realised right from the start that we were going to have our work cut out trying to socialise him and help him to overcome his fears.

To cut a long story short and get to the issue I am most concerned with....As a puppy Riley was regularly brushed even if he didn't need it, just to get him used to being groomed from a young age. Almost as soon as he became an adult dog he took against being brushed, in fact he seemed to become far more sensitive to any kind of human touch that he had not initiated or asked for. For example, if he had something in his coat and I tried to remove it, he would bare his teeth and snap at me. I tried to persevere with the brush, but he would become extremely agressive towards me no matter how I approached the situation.

Of course I asked myself if I had been too rough or hurt him at some point, but bearing in mind that the grooming as a puppy was only to get him used to the brush and not to dematt or detangle or any such thing, I am pretty sure this isnt the case. Riley is a very energetic dog and loves nothing better than having a good run and to go rooting about in the undergrowth, so it has become much more necessary to carry out regular grooming. I got to the point where I had to start using a muzzle in order to carry this out, there is no doubt in my mind that he will bite to get me to stop. Now of course he associates the muzzle with all things bad and it is becoming very hard to even get the muzzle on him without some sort of elaborate trickery....which mostly doesn't work as he is a Border Collie and very intelligent. 

I desperately need some advice so that I can work with Riley to help him overcome his fears. Although he becomes agressive if I attempt to groom him, his tail is right up between his legs which obviously indicates he he frightened. I have to say that I am now very nervous too, which I'm sure he picks up on. 

If anyone has any ideas, tips and advice I am willing to try anything to sort this out.

Thanks


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

One of my border collies does (did) not enjoy being groomed for similar reasons (complex fear case).

Essentially I have taught him through desensitization and counter-conditioning to accept being groomed, having his nails clipped, ticks etc removed. However it is an activity in which readily partakes. I taught it as a "game"- he very much loves learning and is an experienced clicker dog, will offer behaviours and so he began to associate the fun experience of learning with grooming. Still however, if at any point his body language suggests that he is finding it too much, I stop and either give him a break for a few mins or get him to offer an alternative behaviour (hand touch, paw targeting), reward with food and then we continue but groom him more gently initially and then build it up again.

I started off by counterconditioning his emotional response to just getting the brush out. Brush appears= food appears. Once this was well conditioned I'd get him to target it with his nose and practiced games like getting him to retrieve it from the box for me (he already knew this behaviour with his lead and other objects so it only took a few repetitions for him to get the idea). 
Then would get the brush to just touch his back and immediately reward with food and build up to actually groom him gently etc. 
He will now let me groom him, including his "knickers" (fur around his bum) and tail but I still feed him quite frequently to maintain the positive association and tolerance. 
For remove stuff like ticks, I've shaped behaviours like him putting his head into my cupped hand, or to lie on his back etc (various positions that make it easier for me to quickly access and remove tick).

Take a look at the following video which shows the process of counter conditioning the emotional response of a dog who finds nail clipping unpleasant to a positive emotional response, using clicker training, in which the dog is able to offer behaviours and interacts with the handler to become "part of" the game rather than just having stuff done to him and having to just "put up with it" 

CIA Case File: 'Tucker' Nail Trim - YouTube

Also here, for an example of teaching a new "conditioned emotional response" (changing the way the dog perceives an object from a negative to a positive perception)- this is with a headcollar but the process is similar for a brush etc:
Jean Donaldson gets conditioned emotional response while fitting Gentle Leader - YouTube
(FYI- You would do the above before the counter-conditioning work in the first video)
When you feed him for grooming, you could use his normal dinner kibble mixed him with some high value stuff,- just reduce his meal that day.

I'd also think about researching and learning about calming signals and body language so that you can recognise when your dog is feeling uncomfortable, so that he doesn't have to snap at you as a "last resort".

Keep it fun, make it positive and you'll have a much nicer relationship with your dog, with him looking more to you for guidance in navigating tricky situations. 

All the best


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

border collies can be very sensitive... I've two who really hate being brushed.

The first, Jed, was very sensitive to touch and also to noise. So sensitive he didn't like to lie by anyone in case they touched him, although he loved being petted he had to know you were going to do it! He used to hide outside if the smoke detector went off indoors...

I had him from 8 weeks so nothing bad ever happened to him - but his skin was so sensitive, if you brushed him you could see it lifting... so I took it gently and with treats and never tugging, holding his skin down and if any knots I used to cut them out... of course Jed had long luxurious hair which knotted and tangled so easily and when he went out in the snow he looked like a christmas tree, with snow balls between his toes and hanging down from his hair... poor boy.

We eventually came to a good understanding, I lay down with him and it took forever to brush him (at least an hour at a sitting) and he used to have what seemed to be an 'out of body experience' as often I'd have to shake him when I'd finish to bring him home.

Merc is different - again he hasn't had any maltreatment he came to me (import) at just under 4 months and was very sensitive to the brush, in fact he'd go mad if I brushed anyone, even myself... it has again taken time and in his case some 'pinning' down to get the brush through him... now (nearly 9 months) he's getting a lot better although it's going to take a lot more effort than with my other dogs he is ok about most of his body being brushed, but I can see it 'drives him mad' he can tolerate it better... so keeping up with the brushing and praise and treats 

Many years ago I used to go to the (then) Dog's Trust to help with a GSD - he wouldn't tolerate anyone brushing him but he was in such a mess they asked me to try.. so I didn't have many treats, but after he'd had a run and play I sat down and got the brush out... this is a dog who jumped 8foot to try and get at the (lovely) assistant manager so they weren't hopeful .. it took about an hour to gently brush him and on a few occasions he took my wrist in his mouth, but he didn't want to bite me (fortunately) and slowly and because he trusted me (I only saw him for an hour each week) he allowed me to get a plastic bag of hair from him. Then, he'd had enough, but he must have been more comfortable.

When I took on Dizzy, a ten month old sheltie, she hated being brushed and tried to bite me... it took her a while to settle down, to trust me and to let me brush her... again with Jive, because he'd spent 6 months in a kennel (well in the house/garden) and not been brushed, I cut out the massive knots behind his ears and took my time with the rest. Again, because he didn't know/trust me he wanted to bite me, but now (he's been here a year now) after being patient with him, I can brush him... they don't like it necessarily, but they will tolerate it and not bite me (which is great!)


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

border collies can be very sensitive... I've two who really hate being brushed.

The first, Jed, was very sensitive to touch and also to noise. So sensitive he didn't like to lie by anyone in case they touched him, although he loved being petted he had to know you were going to do it! He used to hide outside if the smoke detector went off indoors...

I had him from 8 weeks so nothing bad ever happened to him - but his skin was so sensitive, if you brushed him you could see it lifting... so I took it gently and with treats and never tugging, holding his skin down and if any knots I used to cut them out... of course Jed had long luxurious hair which knotted and tangled so easily and when he went out in the snow he looked like a christmas tree, with snow balls between his toes and hanging down from his hair... poor boy.

We eventually came to a good understanding, I lay down with him and it took forever to brush him (at least an hour at a sitting) and he used to have what seemed to be an 'out of body experience' as often I'd have to shake him when I'd finish to bring him home.

Merc is different - again he hasn't had any maltreatment he came to me (import) at just under 4 months and was very sensitive to the brush, in fact he'd go mad if I brushed anyone, even myself... it has again taken time and in his case some 'pinning' down to get the brush through him... now (nearly 9 months) he's getting a lot better although it's going to take a lot more effort than with my other dogs he is ok about most of his body being brushed, but I can see it 'drives him mad' he can tolerate it better... so keeping up with the brushing and praise and treats 

Many years ago I used to go to the (then) Dog's Trust to help with a GSD - he wouldn't tolerate anyone brushing him but he was in such a mess they asked me to try.. so I didn't have many treats, but after he'd had a run and play I sat down and got the brush out... this is a dog who jumped 8foot to try and get at the (lovely) assistant manager so they weren't hopeful .. it took about an hour to gently brush him and on a few occasions he took my wrist in his mouth, but he didn't want to bite me (fortunately) and slowly and because he trusted me (I only saw him for an hour each week) he allowed me to get a plastic bag of hair from him. Then, he'd had enough, but he must have been more comfortable.

When I took on Dizzy, a ten month old sheltie, she hated being brushed and tried to bite me... it took her a while to settle down, to trust me and to let me brush her... again with Jive, because he'd spent 6 months in a kennel (well in the house/garden) and not been brushed, I cut out the massive knots behind his ears and took my time with the rest. Again, because he didn't know/trust me he wanted to bite me, but now (he's been here a year now) after being patient with him, I can brush him... they don't like it necessarily, but they will tolerate it and not bite me (which is great!)


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Did you habituate and introduce him to the Muzzle slowly? if you didnt then that would add to the fear/anxiety of being groomed too. If you only use the muzzle to groom him as well, and he also doesnt like the muzzle then its double trouble.

He likely gets anxious when the muzzle comes out, plus he knows it also means grooming to that he doesnt like.

It might be worth exploring tellington touch see link for explanation that may help with getting him to relax and accept touch.
Canine University: News -- Health -- Tellington Touch For Dogs If he learns to accept this then you may be able to progress to a grooming mitt and then finally a brush.

One other thing you can try that I also use with my Malamute who I went through the same with is to try him with a Kong (as long as he hasnt got resource guarding issues with things)

I found that when Kobi is given a Kong filled with something he adores (chicken in his case) he couldnt care less that Im doing to him grooming wise, plus it makes a really good association and reward for being groomed. I found that after awhile he would accept grooming with out the kong for quite awhile before he started to get figety and in the end I only have to give it to finish him off now and again.


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## Sunnerlee (May 27, 2009)

> lemmsy said:
> 
> 
> > One of my border collies does (did) not enjoy being groomed for similar reasons (complex fear case).
> ...


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Sunnerlee said:


> > The issue I have with Riley and reading his body language, is that it escalates within seconds to biting, I hardly have time to stop what I am doing before he is lunging towards me. I think maybe I have to work more on my own body language and approach the situation in a more confident manner in order to carry out the counter conditioning in a positive way.
> 
> 
> I understand. In my experience some BCs (especially workers) don't "warn" as obviously as most dogs. It's a combination of their body language being more subtle at times and the fact that, they are bred to "read" others' body language and react accordingly. When they feel stressed, this inclination is likely to be intensified.
> ...


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## Sunnerlee (May 27, 2009)

lemmsy said:


> > Check out "Calming signals" as per Turid Rugaas as this will be helpful nonetheless. Riley will be warning BUT it likely takes less to push him over the edge now.


I have just read an article on 'calming signals' by Turid Rugaas.....what a revelation !! Riley has obviously been giving out far more signals than I realised, I just didn't recognise them!! The article also shed a lot of light on other issues such as getting distressed whilst on the lead walking towards people/other dogs etc. Being kept to heel and prevented from exhibiting any calming signals is so unnatural....no wonder he is happier off the lead and allowed the freedom to communicate the way nature intended.

Thank you so much for the information, it's given me such an insight into Riley's world :001_smile:


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Sunnerlee said:


> I have just read an article on 'calming signals' by Turid Rugaas.....what a revelation !! Riley has obviously been giving out far more signals than I realised, I just didn't recognise them!! The article also shed a lot of light on other issues such as getting distressed whilst on the lead walking towards people/other dogs etc. Being kept to heel and prevented from exhibiting any calming signals is so unnatural....no wonder he is happier off the lead and allowed the freedom to communicate the way nature intended.
> 
> Thank you so much for the information, it's given me such an insight into Riley's world :001_smile:


Lovely stuff. Great to hear! Click + treat for the hooman  

Very much agree with Rugaas' work and what she says about suppressing a dogs ability to communicate in the urban environment (insistence on maintainin "heel" etc). 
With nervous dogs it's always a good idea to: a) Give them space and b) Allow them to perform calming signals and displacement activities in order to cope.

Several (stranger) fearful dogs I know will very quickly pretend a blade of grass is very interesting when they have to pass a "scary" person on the street. 
In doing so they are able to cope. It is just up to us humans to "protect" them from the "let me stroke him/her, dogs love me" or the "He just wants to play" (dog running at you at full speed with owner at the other end of the field) brigades 

All the best


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## Sunnerlee (May 27, 2009)

lemmsy said:


> In doing so they are able to cope. It is just up to us humans to "protect" them from the "let me stroke him/her, dogs love me" or the "He just wants to play" (dog running at you at full speed with owner at the other end of the field) brigades


I couldn't agree more :001_smile: I have a real problem dealing with people who let their dogs off the lead without teaching them any recall. I have lost count of the times that dogs have run up to Riley and bowled him over, only to hear the owner 500 yards away ineffectually yelling at their dog to come back. A lady whose dog approached Riley, came up to me and whilst reaching her hand out to stroke Rileys head told me not to worry because her dog was friendly. To which I replied that not all dogs were like hers and it was dangerous to assume that they were without asking the owner first. At this point Riley was wagging his tail, but he was also beginning to growl....She pointed out the wagging tail and laughed saying "look he wants me to stroke him" !! Its a behaviour that I have seen Riley exhibit before, however I now know that the tail wagging was a calming signal which was being misread. Us humans have a lot to learn and no mistake


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I had one of my Mal pups come back to me at two years old with a terrible coat all full of mats. He wasn't groomed because he didn't like it apparently. I used treats to gain his trust and within one week he was knot free. I would give him a tiny piece of treat after a brush stroke. So brush, treat, brush, treat, I made this part of his daily food amount as I would give so many pieces of treats - I used small pieces of cooked chicken baken in the oven to a crisp and he loved them. 

Eventually he'd have a treat every time I emptied the brush of hair, which being a Mal was pretty often. He'd wait for the treat as he saw me emptying the brush - bless him!


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## Sunnerlee (May 27, 2009)

Malmum said:


> I used treats to gain his trust and within one week he was knot free. I would give him a tiny piece of treat after a brush stroke. So brush, treat, brush, treat, I made this part of his daily food amount as I would give so many pieces of treats - I used small pieces of cooked chicken baken in the oven to a crisp and he loved them.


Riley is very food orientated in most situations. However when trying to gain his trust to accomplish something he doesn't like....he has no interest in the treats at all....not even the most prized ones such as chicken etc. He just turns his head away as if he knows I am trying to bribe him!!

The reward is going to have to be one that far outways the grooming. The only thing that will distract him nearly every time is his ball. However I can't see how I can use this tactic in counter conditioning, because he wants me to throw it.

Any ideas would be most welcome


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Sunnerlee said:


> Riley is very food orientated in most situations. However when trying to gain his trust to accomplish something he doesn't like....he has no interest in the treats at all....not even the most prized ones such as chicken etc. He just turns his head away as if he knows I am trying to bribe him!!
> 
> The reward is going to have to be one that far outways the grooming. The only thing that will distract him nearly every time is his ball. However I can't see how I can use this tactic in counter conditioning, because he wants me to throw it.
> 
> Any ideas would be most welcome


If he cannot eat... he is too stressed. You are moving things to quickly. Give him a break then go back to pairing the appearance of the brush alone with food.

With toys. 
Use two identical toys.
Nose touch the brush... click... throw the toy.

Once he has got the other one, get your second one out and make that one active (the one in his mouth is "dead"). 
Ask him for a hand touch/alternative behaviour (reward with food), then ask him to nose touch the brush, click and throw (pick up old ball to repeat).

When he gets to the point of being able to cope with gentle brushing the process is the same.


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