# Help - runt of litter



## gemini (Jun 8, 2010)

Hi everyone

I foster for Cats Protection but I feel a bit out of my depth at the moment.

We picked up 3 foster kittens and the mum earlier this evening. They are supposed to be 9 weeks old according to the woman we got them from - she said that a pregnant cat had been dumped on her and now she couldn't cope with an extra four cats as well as the two she already had and 3 kids.

The two larger kittens weigh around 500g each - one just a bit more and one slightly less.

But the runt of the litter is tiny. It only weighs 197g and it's eyes haven't opened yet. They're not gummed up - just not opened. The lady we picked them up from said she had taken it to a vet who said it would be ok 

I rang Cats Protection for advice and they just said to take the kittens to the vet, which of course I will do tomorrow.

In the meantime the mummy cat is scared to death and just hiding away. I've put the little kitten in a cat bed with a snugglesafe heat pad because it was shivering. But the mother doesn't seem to be going anywhere near and therefore not feeding it. I put some kitten food out and put the kitten near but it didn't seem interested.

Has anyone got any advice at all until I can get to the vet? Has anyone come across a kitten that still has it's eyes closed at this age?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

197 at 9 weeks old???  that isnt right mine were 800 at 8 weeks old.

are you sure it isnt a kitten from a diff litter, eyes open at 1-2weeks and thats how much they weigh??

id shut mum & kits away on their own must be well stressful


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## gemini (Jun 8, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> 197 at 9 weeks old???  that isnt right mine were 800 at 8 weeks old.
> 
> are you sure it isnt a kitten from a diff litter, eyes open at 1-2weeks and thats how much they weigh??
> 
> id shut mum & kits away on their own must be well stressful


I know it isn't right. They are shut away in a spare bedroom. I've fostered before and I'd say at 9 weeks they should be about a kilo. I suspect that they aren't as old as I've been told. I've just tried the little one with some kitten milk in a syringe and it wolfed it down, but not sure how much I should give. Any more advice?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

dont give kitten milk your have to buy some cimi-cat or what the vets have they sound about 5 weeks? and he sounds about 2 weeks old!!

directions and how much to feed are on the side, give him that for tonight but he needs to real stuff, isnt mum feeding? is she even the mum??


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Gemini, I have just read your post as youre probably getting ready to go off to the vet its quiet pointless me adding my tuppenceworth now. But that does sound VERY small indeed. Depending on how old they actually are I think the vet will advise you to force feed something high in calories like Hills AD. 

Sometimes (often) with shelter kittens, weight is not at all a good indication of age, as these kittens can often be drastically underweight. I do hope they are around 5 or 6 weeks and not the 9 weeks the woman said they were. 

Sometimes judging their coordination is often a better way of gauging age than weighing them. But it took me years to get a hang of this and its quite hard for me to describe what I mean. Basically if they can jump up onto a higher surface without wobbling off continually, or if they can chase a ball or mouse with some efficiency, or use their litter tray pretty well, then you start to get a better indicator of age. 

if the vet recommends force-feeding. And he says to do replacement milk as well as something like Hills AD. I often find that instead of watering the Hills AD down with water to enable you to get it into the syringe. That if you water it down with the replacement milk it kills a few birds with one stone. 

1) watering down with the KMR is more nutritionally beneficial to the kitten than watering down with water  and since you must water down to be able to suck it up into the syringe, it seems to make a lot of sense to me. 
2) force-feeding HIllsAD mixed with KMR is much easier than syringing in milk (and far less dangerous) because it is semi-solid the choking risk is less. 

I prefer size 2.5 ml syringes for kittens this size and nothing bigger than 5ml. And I would make sure if I youre using 2.5 ml that you have around 6 syringes on hand so you can fill a load of them in advance. I cant use bigger syringes with these very petite kittens. 

Please let us know how you get on at the vet. 

And all the very best with these poor wee things.


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## gemini (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks so much for your help. There is some good news.

Ok As I said earlier the mother was very stressed about being in a strange place and I think this was the reason she wasn't feeding them. Because when I went in at 3am they were all suckling from mum. What a relief that was.

This morning I went in to feed the mum and the other two kittens and put down their food bowls and the little one, who was on the heat pad came walking across (not really walking more waddling) and trying to eat. It is so small it couldn't really get the food from my shallow cat bowls. So I got a saucer and mashed a bit of food up and it ate!! 

I rang the vet first thing but can't get an appointment until late afternoon, but feel much happier now I know he's eating and feeding from mum,a d I'm keeping a close eye on him (or her!)

But, I have been doing a bit of googling and now I am wondering if perhaps the kitten was born without eyes. He has little slits but when I look there doesn't seem to be anything in there  I guess the vet will tell me.

Will keep you updated.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Oh geez Gemini. I have no idea about the eyes.

Great news that mother cat is stepping up to the plate. Sometimes these things can be . how can I say this. if mother cats arent getting enough food to sustain all their kittens, then she will just reject (one by one or a few at one time ) of the kittens with the least chance of survival. Its great when we can step in and reverse this process. (obviously though as I am sure you know fine well, sometimes they reject kittens for other reasons, but the main things is you have them all eating form mum again and that is BRILLIANT!).

And it sounds like even the smallest kitten is more or less weaned, which is also great news.

All the very best of luck of at the vets if you get the time later do give us an update (please!! ) some posts pull more are the heart strings than others and I feel a certain amount of déjà vu with this mum and kits.


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## Atlantys (Aug 24, 2010)

Can't add anything, but didn't want to read and run.

I hope the vet and the advice you've already gotten was helpful, and that you manage to pull the little one through.


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## Wendy1969 (Jun 4, 2010)

Any news from the vets?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Eyes not open and yet the kitten is eating solid food - something is very odd there. What did the vet say?

Liz


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

lizward said:


> Eyes not open and yet the kitten is eating solid food - something is very odd there. What did the vet say?
> 
> Liz


it does sound very odd... yes.

I am just hoping it's a bad case of gunky gooey eye and there is something under there.

(excuse my highly technical medical jargon.... I can't help myself, slipping in my knowledge of all things medical and my big impressive words)


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## thelioncub (Feb 9, 2009)

Also keen to hear what the vet said! Poor little fella (or lady).. hope he/she has some eyes under there!


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## gemini (Jun 8, 2010)

Took the kitten to the vet this afternoon and I could see his face fall as soon as he saw him (the vet thinks it's a boy though he wasn't 100% sure). I asked about his eyes and he looked and said he couldn't see any eyes but that there could be some very small ones there but that they'd be useless for seeing and the kitten would be blind. He said that in his opinion the prognosis wasn't good. He said we didn't have to make a decision right away, and if we wanted we could try giving him replacement kitten milk for a few days and see if he picked up. We said we'd go away and discuss with CP. The vet looked at the other two (a boy and a girl) and said they looked healthy enough but he thought they looked more like 5 or 6 weeks old, 7 at the most.

I rang the woman from CP when she got in from work and told her and she said it might be kindest to put him to sleep. I said I'd like her to look at him first so we drove round to her house, which isn't too far away from here. Her husband took one look and said he hought it would be kindest to put him out of his misery and she agreed. She said they don't put many cats to sleep - maybe one or two a year - but she agreed the kitten looked very weak.

Then just before we left she said perhaps we should try to feed him for a couple of days and see if he looks any better so we took away some Cimicat replacement milk powder. She had also rung the woman we collected the kittens from and she still insists they are 9 weeks old. She also said that the tiny kitten had been very lively even though he kept bumping into things. She told her that if he had to be put to sleep then she'd like to take him to the vets. I rang her when I got home and told her that we'd try feeding him for a day or two and I'd keep her informed.

I've just tried to feed him but he isn't interested. In fact he seems so much worse. I am wondering now if he'll survive the night. So so sad


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## thelioncub (Feb 9, 2009)

Aww hon that's so sad.

It must be so hard to know what to do! I don't blame you for wanting to see if you can feed him on Cimicat for a couple of days. Is mum not letting him feed at all now? 
I really hope this little one takes us all by surprise and perks up. I don't think I'll be able to sleep now! - will just lie there thinking about him.
(Boy am I too soft!)
Please do keep us updated. I know threads get pushed off the page so quick these days, but I for sure will be keeping an eye on this one..


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## tyrole (May 5, 2009)

Thanks for updating us. I hope its good news when we log on in the morning.


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## girlyhouse (Apr 16, 2010)

All my thoughts are with this little soul as well x


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

poor wee mite, lets hope he's a fighter xxx


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## gemini (Jun 8, 2010)

thelioncub said:


> Aww hon that's so sad.
> 
> It must be so hard to know what to do! I don't blame you for wanting to see if you can feed him on Cimicat for a couple of days. Is mum not letting him feed at all now?
> I really hope this little one takes us all by surprise and perks up. I don't think I'll be able to sleep now! - will just lie there thinking about him.
> ...


Mum is feeding him sometimes but she was spayed a few weeks ago and I was told that maybe her milk is drying up so that although he's suckling he isn't getting very much nourishment.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Weigh him before and after, that will tell you how much milk he has had.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

poor little baby, it doesnt sound good jsut make sure his final hours are ones he was loved in 

you have done a good job, no way are they 9 weeks old i can tell you that and i havent even seen them!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

About their weight.

first, I agree with Lauren001 about weighing, sometimes its the only way we can know how much nourishment they are getting.. and since mum has been spayed recently I can only assume theyll be getting next to nothing from her.

I have no idea though how this poorly little one is supposed to grow or at what rate what would constitute normal for him? I would be checking that with the vet. 

Secondly, irrespective to what they vet thinks now do not rule out that they could in fact be 9 weeks old. It wont be the first time I have came across terribly malnourished kittens like this. 400grams less than should be isnt that unusual for rescue kittens. 

Say we get a 400gr kitten in, automatically we (me, the shelter, the vet) age it at around 4 weeks but if it gains 400grams in the first week in foster care and 200grams the next week you now have a kitten weighing 1000grams . So do we still say its 6 weeks? Usually no. We would then adjust the age to 9 or 10 weeks. I know the breeders on here will never come across malnourishment to this degree, but in rescue circles it is not that unusual. Horrible, terrible. diabolical, criminal yes, just not that unusual sadly. 

I do however agree with the vet at initially aging them at 5-6 weeks. 

You will get a FAR better idea of their true age in the next 2-3 weeks. 

If they gain masses and weigh 1200grams in that time then chances are they are 9 weeks right now. If they gain normal amounts of around 100grams per week then chances are they 5-6 weeks now. 

All the best Gemini. I will keep you and the wee man in my thoughts today.


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## thelioncub (Feb 9, 2009)

Praying this little mite made it through the night

(that wasn't meant to rhyme!)


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## gemini (Jun 8, 2010)

Thankfully he did survive the night. he's a little fighter.

I have been feeding him little and often, but he isn't very interested. But I will persevere. On Wednesday he was 197g. I weighed him yesterday and he was 206g so a slight gain, but at lunchtime today he was back down to 192 

Here is a pic of the little mite, and also one of his brother and sister.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

As much as it pains me to say this. I think it's time hun  please get the little one to the vets before he starts suffering more than he is already. Weight loss when there is already so little gain is a sign that he is struggling.

I'm actually crying here, poor poor little man


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I personally wouldn't give up, he perhaps just did a poo/pee between the weights, so the weight loss may not be significant.

Make sure he is eating well as he may get bullied from his older and stronger siblings. Has he had antibiotics? Wormed? I personally would give him a course of antibiotics, did your vet say anything about that. 

I always feel that where there is life there is hope and as long as he is eating I feel that there is hope. Keep offering him food little and often and make sure he has enough fluids. Weaning is always a stressful time for kittens, and any that are struggling tend to struggle even more then. As you do not know the history it may be that he just didn't get enough milk. The eyes are a problem but blind cats can do very well and have a good quality of life in the right home. 

JMO


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Poor baby. I wonder if they all had a bout of cat flu and the eyes exploded? It sounds horrible but it does happen if the eyes are really infected and are not kept open.

Liz


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## jackano1 (Oct 18, 2010)

Poor little thing.
I hate it when animals are like that because they cannot tell you if they are in pain or not.

If it was me I would give it another 24 hours at the most.
Then I would let the little one go to sleep, (sorry dont like the term put to sleep).
Never will he know pain or suffering again, but he will remember in his after life the love and care that you gave him and the fighting chance he so deserved.

Hugs to you, such a hard thing to do.

Janex


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

lizward said:


> Poor baby. I wonder if they all had a bout of cat flu and the eyes exploded? It sounds horrible but it does happen if the eyes are really infected and are not kept open.
> 
> Liz


Sorry liz but I have never ever heard of a kittens eyes exploding. Corneal ulcers which effectively destroy the eye yes, but the eyes will not explode. Technically an abcess behind the eye due to the infection could cause the eye to rupture from the socket and trauma can also give this impression but the eye will not just explode.

the membrane of the eyelid is weaker than the eye itself and so the eyelids would burst first in the scenario you are suggesting.

I think it much more likely that this kitten was born with micropthalmia (tiny eyes) or anenopthalmia (no eyes).

For the record on this kitten. My immediate thoughts (please dont take offence op) would be to get him to a more experienced foster mum, someone experienced with tube feeding ideally and with dealing with very underweight kittens. At 9wo he has fought a very very hard battle to still be here, and has managed it, i'm not sure i would be giving up just yet. 10-15 tiny meals a day via teaspoon, high calorie formula, and see how he is in another 24-36 hours. No improvement after 12hours then you know your not winning... a good weight gain of 20+g in 24hours and your winning the battle.

However remember whichever way you do things he will need a VERY special home and if you dont think that this is going to happen then it may be kinder to PTS now than risk a life of misery in an unsuitable home or stuck in a shelter pen.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

any news? ...


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## tagalong (Jan 28, 2010)

Sick underweight kittens can and do survive 
Angel -170 g -25 days old 








Angel 9 years old









minus one infected eye and deaf in one ear but very much alive 
Don't give up on him yet .


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

billyboysmammy said:


> Sorry liz but I have never ever heard of a kittens eyes exploding. Corneal ulcers which effectively destroy the eye yes, but the eyes will not explode. Technically an abcess behind the eye due to the infection could cause the eye to rupture from the socket and trauma can also give this impression but the eye will not just explode.


I have seen something that bore a very good resemblance to an exploding eye - it happened once to a kitten I was fostering. I don't know what it was in medical terms, only that the appearance was of an eye that had exploded, it was horrible and of course the eye had to be removed. Yes, perhaps it was an abcess behind the eye, who knows?

Liz


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

tagalong said:


> Sick underweight kittens can and do survive
> Angel -170 g -25 days old
> minus one infected eye and deaf in one ear but very much alive
> Don't give up on him yet .


Fantastic
Young animals can have amazing powers of recovery.


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## gemini (Jun 8, 2010)

Thank you to everyone who helped and gave advice.

Unfortunately Tiny wasn't interested in feeding and he was losing weight, so at 11.55am he went to sleep (at the vets). RIP little one x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

you did your best, poor tiny he wont be in any pain now


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## Atlantys (Aug 24, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> Corneal ulcers which effectively destroy the eye yes, but the eyes will not explode.





lizward said:


> I have seen something that bore a very good resemblance to an exploding eye


You're both right. Cat flu can cause corneal ulcers, and untreated corneal ulcers can lead to the eyeball rupturing, effectively destroying it if not treated surgically.

Gemini, I'm so sorry you lost Tiny, but Taylorbaby is right: at least he won't be in any more pain.

Rest in peace, little one.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

gemini said:


> Thank you to everyone who helped and gave advice.
> 
> Unfortunately Tiny wasn't interested in feeding and he was losing weight, so at 11.55am he went to sleep (at the vets). RIP little one x


poor little thing,
R I P little one xxxxxx


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## Wendy1969 (Jun 4, 2010)

So sorry to hear this but you did your very best for this little'un.
Rest in Peace Tiny xx


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