# showing spayed bitch?



## katiefranke

*can you show a spayed bitch/neutered male? and if you can I am assuming this is a more recent thing...so what are the thoughts on this generally in showing circles? is it viewed equally with entire bitches/dogs?*

just to explain my reasoning behind this...I posted the other day about starting out in showing to gather some info for my friend as I said I would help her find out more about it...

now I was chatting with my friend about this last night and telling her all the things you guys had said and we had a look online and stuff at the upcoming shows and I am finding it all quite interesting!!

so she asked me why dont I start with maggie too and we could all go together to ringcraft classes etc as our pups are similar age (almost 10 months)...I was never intending to show maggie, hence not starting ringcraft etc earlier, but now I know someone locally that wants to get into it, it kind of changes things...

...only thing is I was planning on getting her spayed some time in the next few months...so had thought I couldn't show her? however, I read on the KC website that spayed bitches & neutered males can be entered into KC registered events, they just have to have all the details of the op/vets/date done etc given before hand...

can someone explain to me please? or confirm/clarify, as I really dont know a lot about showing...as you can tell!!!


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## hawksport

This is from the KC web site.
Prior to exhibition, permission must be sought from the General Committee of the Kennel Club to exhibit any dog which has undergone an operation to alter its natural conformation. Dogs that have been spayed or castrated are permitted to be exhibited at Kennel Club licensed events. However, the owner of the dog must inform the Kennel Club, prior to exhibition, of the date of the operation, the name of the veterinary surgeon and the practice where the operation was carried out.


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## katiefranke

thanks Hawksport, see this is what I read...but not really understanding how these things work, i didnt know if perhaps this was like a special thing for if a show dog then had to be spayed/neutered for medical reasons?

am I right in thinking this has not always been the case? you didn't used to be able to show altered animals did you? or have I got that wrong?

thanks for your patience


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## hawksport

Not sure on that but I don't think there has to be a medical reason.


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## katiefranke

ok thank you! I will give the KC a call to clarify.

anyone else have any views on spayed vs entire in the show ring? are they viewed equally? anything to consider? does it affect judging or anything?

thank you!


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## hawksport

A spayed bitch is not as obvious as a castrated dog. So with a bitch you have more chance of a fair go.


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## Snoringbear

Also, the lack of testicles is technically a fault so a dog would be disadvantaged. 

Personally, I don't think it should be an issue, though


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## katiefranke

hawksport said:


> A spayed bitch is not as obvious as a castrated dog. So with a bitch you have more chance of a fair go.


yeah thats what I was thinking...lol!

I have been having a google on it and found different forums and bits and from what I have read it appears that the old school judges are sometimes a bit biased and mark down the spayed/neutered ones...although not sure how they know with a female - maybe this is in some sort of notes/details on the dog that they have?



Snoringbear said:


> Also, the lack of testicles is technically a fault so a dog would be disadvantaged.
> 
> Personally, I don't think it should be an issue, though


Yep I had read that...but couldnt see anything about a bitch. I suppose in that case it is more visual then...

would be interesting to know if anyone has a spayed bitch who they show?

I may be getting ahead of myself as maggie may not take to it at all, in which case i dont need to worry!!


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## dexter

certainly a disadvantage if you show a castrated dog , as the standard calls for 2 descended testicles!! i've been confronted with a dog with no testicles when judging and the owner produced a letter from the KC giving him permission to be shown.

Spayed Bitches as someone has pointed out can be shown providing the KC are notified.

There used to be a ruling whereby only spayed bitches that had off spring could be shown.
In some breeds a spayed bitch is quite obvious especially in some coated breeds.


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## dexter

BTW i always have my bitches spayed when they are older and both are succesfully shown, thankfully not getting huge coats, although thats not always the case in my breed.


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## katiefranke

thanks dexter, thats good to hear from a judging perspective...so as long as it was not noticeably visible, would the judge know that maggie was spayed (obviously I am speaking in the future and hypothetically, as she isnt yet and I havent even started classes!)?


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## bassetsandbeyond

when Tessa was alive.....i was told by the kennel club last year that "I have to write to the kennel club asking permission and what was reason for speying" and the KC also asked for a letter from our vet "when and why she had been speyed"

Sadly Tessa didn't get granted in time after being speyed....she died within 6 weeks after being speyed:crying:


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## dexter

no visible signs at all, as i say it can affect coat. thats y i find it best to spay mid season. i,e if they go 10 mths between seasons then get them done at 5 mths.

I sent letter off telling KC my bitch had been spayed, she'd never had a litter, gave them the reason she was done i,e health issues and received a ltter back from them wishing me all the best for showing her. You will need KC reg'd when you tell KC.


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## katiefranke

Thanks for all the advice! I will have a look into it.


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## Freyja

I know several people who show speyed bitches. To be honest how would anyone know your bitch was speyed unless you told the judge? A lot of the ex racing greyhounds that are shown are speyed as the majority have come from rescue and are speyed before rehoming. If you went to shows every weekend with a speyed bitch and you never had a break as if she was in season people may notice that she's not ha a season if you see the same people week after week and they could report you.

The people I know who show speyed bitches all had permission of the KC before speying

Last year Button missed crufts as she was in season. When I toldpeople that was why she wasn't there I was asked how come I had an ex racer that wasn't speyed.


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## katiefranke

Freyja said:


> I know several people who show speyed bitches...


Thanks Freyja, well that's good to know it is pretty common then. Like I said, I don't really know much about showing, so the only info I had heard was from friends etc who do it and I always remember them saying it was only entire bitches who could be shown...but that was a long time ago now! 

I know the KC says you have to send in details to them if they are done, and thats when I wondered whether this info was passed across to any judge with the dogs info you see...but obviously not.

Thanks again!


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## dexter

no................... judge would have no idea if bitch was spayed or not , but as mentioned earlier it can make some bitches heavier coated.


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## jesshan

dexter said:


> There used to be a ruling whereby only spayed bitches that had off spring could be shown.
> In some breeds a spayed bitch is quite obvious especially in some coated breeds.


I recall that rule - providing the bitch had had a litter she could be neutered and still show them. Dogs are different - were they neutered because they weren't entire in the first place. (unless the bitch had to be done for medical reasons)

You are supposed to inform the steward and (although not 100%) have to put NEUT in the entry. The steward will then inform the judge that there is a medical certificate (I think) should really brush up on this rule. LOL


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## dexter

jesshan said:


> I recall that rule - providing the bitch had had a litter she could be neutered and still show them. Dogs are different - were they neutered because they weren't entire in the first place. (unless the bitch had to be done for medical reasons)
> 
> You are supposed to inform the steward and (although not 100%) have to put NEUT in the entry. The steward will then inform the judge that there is a medical certificate (I think) should really brush up on this rule. LOL


some males are neutered for prostrate related problems, i suppose if they weren't entire in the first place they probably never get/got shown tbo.

have to admit its ages since i've seen "neut" in a catalogue , i suppose since the rule was amended re; showing spayed bitches you don't have to put it on entry form now.


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## jesshan

I know LOL, it is a long time since I have seen it but makes me wonder whether people just don't bother disclosing any more or just don't show the dogs anymore.


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## Freyja

I was concidering having Tegan speyed as she has had 3 litters she is a veteran now and I was thinking of having her speyed then bringing her back out into the ring to do veteran classes.


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## pickle

I have shown spayed bitches in the past, first getting a letter from my vet to send to the KC to get the appropriate "permission to show" document. They always gave it then, and nowdays I understand from a friend who works at the KC permission to show neutered dogs/bitches is never refused and there does not even have to be a medical reason, I think it would be politically incorrect in these times to do so. I think you may still need the letter from the vet basically *to confirm it was an entire dog/bitch in the first place.*

Yes, the males are disadvantaged as their lack of equipment is visible (or not!)
Coated females can end up with excess coat of the wrong sort, though as I have always had short-coated its not been a problem for me. I daresay once you get a male into veteran judges would be more accepting of the lack of the necessary? I think its the other exhibitors who get upset about it with the males, I strongly suspect that most of them would be unhappy at having a castrated male put up over their entire one!


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## dexter

no letter need from vet now. just letter to KC.

i had a male on 2 "CC's he had to be castrated for health reasons i didn't bother to show him in veteran class cos i lnew he wouldn't do anything so he retired to the sofa.


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## katiefranke

thanks for all the info guys...looks like it is much more common now then and not really a problem for a bitch unless it affects her coat...

I have been having a look since posting and have found a club in between me and my friend location-wise...Rushmoor Ringcraft & Junior Handling

Anyone know anything about them on the offchance anyone lives nearby?

Or can recommend a good club in the Camberley/Frimley/Farnborough sort of area of Surrey/Hampshire?


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