# I think my 8 month old Bichon is pregnant



## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

I have two Bichons, 1 adult male and my 8 month female. She came into heat for the first time recently, and basically when i was not around my male had his way with her, they were stuck together. I want to know if she can be pregnant so young? What to do if she is? Is there something the vet can do to stop a pregnancy? 

Any information will be a help

Thanks


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Oh that is so sad and so young  

Take her to the vet ASAP like now! and yes it can have the pregnancy terminated and yes she can be pregnant.

To stop this happening again just neutering him & have her spayed! happy all round then


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Ok thanks for your reply, i will do that. I wanted them to breed eventually, but not this soon. I could not believe it when i saw them, she is just a baby herself.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

Take her to the vet and tell him/her they will provide you with a mis mate jab and next time try and be more careful x


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks Jem, i will be, i really thought he was ok around her, he never showed any particular interest in her, not at all, so i was really shocked when it happened. Delighted to know it can be fixed and i will be doing something about it as soon as.


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## KarenHSmith (Apr 20, 2008)

Aw bless - as whats been said her pregnancy can be terminated xx


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

In some bitches the mis mate jab may affect their next season but the vet may talk all that through with you anyway hun x


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## Lucysmom (Feb 13, 2009)

you can prevent them from getting together during the girls season, its just very very hard work. I had to send my old boy rip away for a few days for the boy dog its the most painful thing i have ever seen I feel sorry for them.

hope the injection works and keep them both crated next time.

Rachel and the girls


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2009)

Guess you know the answer - yes she can be pregnant - so guess your next move would be to visit the vet - just out of curiosity are the two dogs related?


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

I am sure you can give the mismate jab up to 6 weeks after mating but not 100% on this


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## Blaxen (May 4, 2008)

Alizin can be given up to 45days after mating


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> i really thought he was ok around her, he never showed any particular interest in her, not at all, so i was really shocked when it happened.


Perhaps you should do a bit more learning before you breed too.


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

Dundee said:


> Perhaps you should do a bit more learning before you breed too.


well said


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## poochimama (Apr 24, 2008)

awww how sad ..poor girlie on her first heat too .shes still a baby  if you got a bitch it was inevitable that the boy would be after her as soon as she came on heat


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm sorry but why on earth where you 'shocked' when they mated? :001_rolleyes:


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

i would get her to the vets asap and get her the injection. i wouldn't wait to long either incase it can cause problems later. But having two entire dogs and finding the shockin that they mated a bit strange. They dont care about age. they mate to keep the breed alive not for love. 

Hope you get her sorted soon and keep them apart next time. my sister used to put knickers on her bitch when in season as then no dog can get "in"


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## Ridgielover (Apr 16, 2008)

candysmum said:


> i would get her to the vets asap and get her the injection. i wouldn't wait to long either incase it can cause problems later. But having two entire dogs and finding the shockin that they mated a bit strange. They dont care about age. they mate to keep the breed alive not for love.
> 
> Hope you get her sorted soon and keep them apart next time. my sister used to put knickers on her bitch when in season as then no dog can get "in"


Your sister has been lucky if putting knickers on her bitch has stopped her dogs from mating. I know that it wouldn't have been enough to stop any of mine if the time was right!


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## pommum (Jun 16, 2008)

I've known of dogs were even a cage between them hasn't stopped them if they are determined enough to breed then they will do it know matter what unless you keep them in sepereate rooms.
I have no choice with my two stud dogs when the bitches are in season but to keep them in sepreate rooms as my two studs are show dogs as well and if any of my girls come in season my older stud especially as he is proven goes off his food through the stress the girls put him in. So as I have now finally got him at a weight were I am happy with him I really have to watch and keep a diary of when my girls are due in.

It might be an idea for yout o write down when her season started on a calander and then work out 6 months on as that is when she will be likely to come in season again and you can prepare yourself better.

take care

Sarah


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Guess you know the answer - yes she can be pregnant - so guess your next move would be to visit the vet - just out of curiosity are the two dogs related?


No they are definitely not related, i had not worried about breeding them yet, because the vet told me to come back for advice once she had been in heat a couple of times.


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

Ridgielover said:


> Your sister has been lucky if putting knickers on her bitch has stopped her dogs from mating. I know that it wouldn't have been enough to stop any of mine if the time was right!


it wasn't to stop the mating as such as she only had one dog it was so she could walk her she said.

I dont know we had a good laugh at her putting her GSD in knickers LOL


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

I'd sack your vet then love!!!:blink::blink: Think my 10 year old neice could of told you dog+bitch+season = bonking. :crazy:


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

JSR said:


> I'm sorry but why on earth where you 'shocked' when they mated? :001_rolleyes:


I was shocked, Its like a dirty old man raping a young girl. I didnt pay enough attention to notice she started bleeding, and to watch him more when that happened. My own fault. They are animals and it was instincts...


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

pommum said:


> It might be an idea for yout o write down when her season started on a calander and then work out 6 months on as that is when she will be likely to come in season again and you can prepare yourself better.
> 
> take care
> 
> Sarah


Thank you Sarah that is very good advice.


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## candysmum (Jan 18, 2009)

Buffy1 said:


> Thank you Sarah that is very good advice.


um have to say that some bitchs are 7/8 sometimes 12 months apart in season. until she has had 2 seasons you wont know her gap.

just watch her closly as soon as you see a spot of blood then you need to lock them apart so so speak


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

Good grief.... I can hardly believe some of the things I'm reading...


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

Has the bitch been to the vets yet or have i miss that bit:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## lauski (Jan 3, 2009)

nat1979 said:


> Has the bitch been to the vets yet or have i miss that bit:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


No I was just wondering the same!


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

omg she is just a baby! 

you should defo get the jab.

couldn't this cause a few problems for a bitch this young if she did have puppies at such a young age because her body isn't fully developed?


i do know of a dog and a bitch that mates and they were mother and son.
the owner took the bitch to get the jab - however for osme reason it didn't work properly. she had 2 or 3 and 2 of them were deformed and sadly died!!!


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

GSDlover4ever said:


> omg she is just a baby!
> 
> you should defo get the jab.
> 
> ...


Its so sad as the pups will probably be deformed or have issues later on in life. I do hope this poster took her Bitch straight to the Vet


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

is there an update on this situation?


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

hello, OP here.

Well ihave an update, i had my vet check her and she was pregnant, he advised me that she was in good health and had gotten pregnant by a male bichon, so he could not see why she couldn' carry through with the pregnancy. So thats what i did, i had the vet number in case of an emergency.

She had 6 puppies on the 19th of April, 4 girls and 2 boys and they are all perfect head to toe and she is very good with them, we never had to interfere except during the birth she was not able to bite the cords, so we did that. They all, (mother and puppies), have been vet checked and he says they are all perfect so far.They have just had their first vaccinations and are all doing really well.

we have a very busy entertaining house at the moment.
We have even found homes for 3 of the girls, maybe 4, but nobody seems interested in taking a boy. I prefer males myself 
We are keeping them until at least ten weeks old, which means we will have them another 3 and a half weeks before they go to their new homes.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2009)

Glad mum and puppies are well.! Could have been alot worse due to age ect.!
Hope they all continue to do well


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Glad mum and puppies are well.! Could have been alot worse due to age ect.!
> Hope they all continue to do well


Thanks for everyones help concern and advice.

Me and other half are very reluctant in re-homing them , and also being careful with females trying to make sure they go to responsible people. As it happens two of the puppies are going to family friends, one is a retired lady who has always wanted a bichon, the other my friend who adores animals. I would love to find them all homes like these two!


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## crazycrest (Feb 13, 2008)

Your best bet, as these puppies can't be registered is to draw up a contract whereby your puppy buyers have to sign to say they will get puppy neutered at an appropriate age, but do make sure you keep a copy too


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2009)

I would seriously think about writing a contract for the pups of your terms.! Let the puppy buyers read it before deciding weather to have a pup or not.! Then you and the new owner keep a signed copie of the contract.!
This can ensure the pups arent breed from
kerry


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> he advised me that she was in good health and had gotten pregnant by a male bichon, so he could not see why she couldn' carry through with the pregnancy.


Your vet thought it was OK for an 8 month old puppy to have a litter  Have to say I'm a bit disgusted by that attitude, but then most vets actually don't know much about breeding, just intervention when problems arise.


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

Glad that mum and pups are doing well, have you got any pictures?


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Glad everything went well with the birth.:thumbup:
My sister's Bichon had her first litter at 9 years old which was an accidental mating between her Yorkie and Bichon when her son let them together without her knowledge and she had four beautiful pups without any problems at all. She's still got one of them now aged 13 years old.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2009)

I am relieved to learn that the pups have been delivered safely!

However, I am a little concerned at the advice given by your vet! I am not being funny! But are you sure he is a qualified vet!!!! and not just has scammer who has set up shop!!!! Nothing more to say really! other then I am speechless!
regards
DT


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## crazycrest (Feb 13, 2008)

Dundee said:


> Your vet thought it was OK for an 8 month old puppy to have a litter  Have to say I'm a bit disgusted by that attitude, but then most vets actually don't know much about breeding, just intervention when problems arise.





DoubleTrouble said:


> I am relieved to learn that the pups have been delivered safely!
> 
> However, I am a little concerned at the advice given by your vet! I am not being funny! But are you sure he is a qualified vet!!!! and not just has scammer who has set up shop!!!! Nothing more to say really! other then I am speechless!
> regards
> DT


Have to agree with both these posts, what an irresponsible vet


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Dundee said:


> Your vet thought it was OK for an 8 month old puppy to have a litter  Have to say I'm a bit disgusted by that attitude, but then most vets actually don't know much about breeding, just intervention when problems arise.


bloody hell i can't believe a vet said that or can i!!!!

i trust you have had or will get one of the parents neutered now as you don't want to be in this situation again.


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

Ok...as much as i hate the fact that a vet has suggested its ok for a BABY to have babies, i am glad the pups are ok.

Do me a favour - don't listen to your vet again because he is clearly a twit.


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

reddogs said:


> Glad that mum and pups are doing well, have you got any pictures?


Pictures of puppies in question...


>>

>>


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## C4L (May 29, 2009)

Glad everything went okay, pups look gorgeous. 

I can not believe your vet thinks it's acceptable to allow a puppy to have puppies, I'm disgusted to say the least.


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi i hope you like th epictures i have posted. 

As well as those i want to add, that my vet is most definitely a professional and very respected. He never encouraged me to go ahead and let my girl have puppies. He was concerned and examined her thoroughly before he suggested neutering her while she was half way through a pregnancy , but he also advised me that if she had the puppies he could not see why she wouldn't cope and healthwise be ok herself. He was very understanding and my main concern was my girl Buffy making it through ok. If he told me that having them would harm her, then i would not have let her have them. He also told me that getting rid of the puppies could cause her future damage which would not help either.

the best thing to do in our situation was to let her have them and to keep his number on hand if problems ocurred. 

He does not advise people to let puppies have puppies.

he is also the man who is neutering her for me, he advised me to give her a break and to get my male done first as she has already done enough.

Some people accuse my vet of almost being pro puppy farming or something and i just had to put that right.

He is a man who actually is highly involved in stopping stuff like this happening in our area.

Also someone else mentioned on the board that the puppies cant be registered, i can register them, mother must be 12 months old and they mus be no more than twelve weeks, but a ltter or individual puppies can also be registered after 12 weeks. I have all of my forms and everything that i need from the kennel club.


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks C4L, they are happy little guys, and very friendly and playful. Two of the girls give me the paw when asked now and fora treat of course, bichons are a very clever breed.

The only problem is i am up to my neck in fluff. i have 8 bichons at the moment to groom!!  One can be trouble. 
I have to keep the hair on the puppies bottoms trimmed, can get too hairy and they cant do their business, i had that problem with my girl when she was about their age.
So with these litle guys i was prepared! 

But they are worth all of it, even saying that these will be the first and last litter in my house. 
I have also decided to keep Ralphie, he is the largest male and the puppy in the third photo, i have grown very attached to him.


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## bichonsrus (May 16, 2009)

Was a tough situation to be in, they look great by the way. You also very lucky you were not given the seven page lecture on being an irresponsible breeder as i was given , i have six boy bichons with no home to go to you see. If keeping one boy remember what happened last time and seperate. I am able to tell when my dogs on heat cos all local dogs start barking frantically and my girl dog goes off her food, just little things you could try looking out for before she starts to bleed, also some have silent seasons and you dont even know they on heat. I do beleive there are dog nappy things for just this situation that may help, dont need them for my girl as there is not a male capable in my home and extremely safe garden as my girl was a great houdini in escaping lol. Also i do have a male bichon and although he has been castrated he still humps daisy when she is in season so i know for definate its funny cos she nudges him to go out in the garden with her and if he has had enough he tries to ignore her but she is pretty persistant pmsl.


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

bichonsrus said:


> Was a tough situation to be in, they look great by the way. You also very lucky you were not given the seven page lecture on being an irresponsible breeder as i was given , i have six boy bichons with no home to go to you see. If keeping one boy remember what happened last time and seperate. I am able to tell when my dogs on heat cos all local dogs start barking frantically and my girl dog goes off her food, just little things you could try looking out for before she starts to bleed, also some have silent seasons and you dont even know they on heat. I do beleive there are dog nappy things for just this situation that may help, dont need them for my girl as there is not a male capable in my home and extremely safe garden as my girl was a great houdini in escaping lol. Also i do have a male bichon and although he has been castrated he still humps daisy when she is in season so i know for definate its funny cos she nudges him to go out in the garden with her and if he has had enough he tries to ignore her but she is pretty persistant pmsl.


Thats funny they will get it if they really want it wont they :laugh:
But yep he is being snipped first and then her.We have a very secure walled garden so there is no way a dog can get in or out. She is probably almost in heat again, she had the pups almost 7 weeks ago and was pregnant 64 days so ill have to send her to grandmas this time and take no chances, ill bring her back as soon as his bits have been sorted.

Then it will be safe.

You have a litter of 6 male puppies? and you cant rehome them at all ?

I am thinking that ill have to keep the two boys myself then i will have four dogs, wich isn't ideal but what else can i do.Nobody who is interested wants a boy they all want girls and im running out of them.

Plus i have turned two people down, one person was buying the pup for her two year old son! which is ridiculous, i told her she might be better off not buying a bichon then. they need alot of attention and grooming. a two year old just cant provide that, and walks, while they are a small breed, bailey and buffy love walks, they see their leads and start jumping around.

another girl wanted a handbag puppy, im sorry but she should never own an animal, what will she do when the dog takes a pee or worse in her fancy handbag....probably decide she does not want it and one of my puppies will end up in the pound. when i told her about daily brushing and grooming she completely lost interest anyway.

So, this is the joy of it. Does anyone know if i sell one of my puppies and find out that its being mistreated or neglected do i have any right to step in and take the pup back into my care ? i have been worried about that, i just cant tell if i let the puppy go away with someone that they will not lose interest in it.Especially worried if someone takes a boy, hyperactive is not even the word to describe Bailey(puppies daddy), he is definitely hard work but worth it.

When i decided to get a dog i looked up animal charities and pounds and i just knew i wanted a small dog. I bought Bailey from an animal sanctuary when he was almost 6 months, he spent the first 4 months of his life locked in a cage. the only people he socialised with were kids on school tours and weekend visitors, The lady who runs the sanctuary said that everybody wanted to take him home until they found out he was pedigree and was expensive, so she thought he would be there forever. the owner surrendered him because she could not keep him and could not sell him. he was very hard to train and he had never been groomed so he had to be completely shaved...after all that i dont care when he bites the wire on the tv or something. i think of where he came from and what a lovely dog he is otherwise and i over look it. Some people dont think like that and im worried for rehoming the boys because i know what they are like and i dont want them offloaded on some pound. Especially since i own their mammy and daddy and its my responsibility that they are in the world.

When we got buffy we got her because bailey needed a friend and company, also i had just lost my child and i think my other half bought her so i would have something to take care of. I am a lost hope for special cases, there were two pups, buffy and her brother. her brother was playful and running around and charming us to no end. and then there was buffy, the owner explained that her king charles attacked her when she was a few weeks old and the tip of her ear was gone as a result, plus she was a timid nervous creature because of it, she was hiding in the corner and would not approach us to be petted or anything. other half wanted the boy and i said no way, we are having this poor girl and we will love her broken ear or not. so we brought her home and there you go...now we have 8 for our sins :laugh:


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Maybe you meant photos of mum and dad..

Here you are 
Buffy and Bailey as you can see her left ear (left in the photo) is cropped the tip is gone, so i try to even it out when clipping her, also had to cut off her mouth hair because she was cleaning up after the puppies and eating their waste, so i cut it off,it was getting too dirty, but it will grow back in no time.


>

>


She is 12 months in 3 weeks time...


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

What adorable little pups!!

Glad to hear everything is ok with mum and babies!


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

I just had to say what beautiful dogs you have.  They look really healthy and happy and I wish you luck with their new homes.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Buffy1 said:


> Thanks C4L, they are happy little guys, and very friendly and playful. Two of the girls give me the paw when asked now and fora treat of course, bichons are a very clever breed.
> 
> The only problem is i am up to my neck in fluff. i have 8 bichons at the moment to groom!!  One can be trouble.
> I have to keep the hair on the puppies bottoms trimmed, can get too hairy and they cant do their business, i had that problem with my girl when she was about their age.
> ...


Yes my Bichon will give me a paw when there's food about - he will do anything for food the greedy little monkey.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Buffy1 said:


> Pictures of puppies in question...
> 
> 
> >>
> ...


Ooh what gorgeous little puppies, you must be so proud.:001_wub::001_wub::001_wub:

I think I will come and dognap them.

Good luck with them all and hope you get lovely homes for them - I'm sure you will cos they are beautiful.

I want another Bichon, a female this time though as I've got a male.


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## LadyRedLainey (Apr 7, 2009)

Really are gorgeous pups, and the mum and dad are bonnie dogs to.

I am glad everything turned out well, and mum and pups were OK

x


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Buffy1 said:


> Maybe you meant photos of mum and dad..
> 
> Here you are
> Buffy and Bailey as you can see her left ear (left in the photo) is cropped the tip is gone, so i try to even it out when clipping her, also had to cut off her mouth hair because she was cleaning up after the puppies and eating their waste, so i cut it off,it was getting too dirty, but it will grow back in no time.
> ...


Aww they are beautiful.:001_wub::001_wub:

Are you keeping a puppy?


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Buffy1 said:


> Hi i hope you like th epictures i have posted.
> 
> As well as those i want to add, that my vet is most definitely a professional and very respected. He never encouraged me to go ahead and let my girl have puppies. He was concerned and examined her thoroughly before he suggested neutering her while she was half way through a pregnancy , but he also advised me that if she had the puppies he could not see why she wouldn't cope and healthwise be ok herself. He was very understanding and my main concern was my girl Buffy making it through ok. If he told me that having them would harm her, then i would not have let her have them. He also told me that getting rid of the puppies could cause her future damage which would not help either.
> 
> ...


I think you will find that you will not be able to register them with the kennel club. The mother of the pups has to be over 12 months when the puppies are born. Not over 12 months old before you can register them


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Freya is right if the dam was under 12 months when she was mated you cant register the puppies


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

They are all beautiful puppies and the mum and dad look good too


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## kareng (Sep 4, 2008)

awww.. cute doggies  congrats xx


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Freya is right if the dam was under 12 months when she was mated you cant register the puppies


In ireland i can, i have the forms as i said before, i am just waiting to get them micro-chipped.


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

reddogs said:


> They are all beautiful puppies and the mum and dad look good too


Thank you, they are the rulers of this household


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Jazzy said:


> Ooh what gorgeous little puppies, you must be so proud.:001_wub::001_wub::001_wub:
> 
> I think I will come and dognap them.
> 
> ...


Thank you but Why does everyone want the girls ? I just don't get it. Maybe its because they are a cute dog, my other half wont walk them, calls them gay dogs :laugh: And having a girl cute dog is even more adorable. I dont know.


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Jazzy said:


> Aww they are beautiful.:001_wub::001_wub:
> 
> Are you keeping a puppy?


It looks like i will have to keep the 2 cheeky boys, Ralphie(Ralphie is the puppy in the third photo down) and Rocky, nobody is interested in males..at all!! I had to call the little boy Rocky he is always starting fights with the other pups! I secretly wanted to keep one anyway, didnt mention that to other half. I started calling Ralphie that when he was just 4 weeks old, he would just sit in the box staring and growling at the other puppies! I started out Saying raff, ruff to him and it turned into ralph.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Buffy1 said:


> In ireland i can, i have the forms as i said before, i am just waiting to get them micro-chipped.


well that's just shocking!!!!its just encouraging unethical breeding!!! i thought our KC was bad registering puppies from dams who are only 12m months!


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## ruby2ruby (Apr 29, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> well that's just shocking!!!!its just encouraging unethical breeding!!! i thought our KC was bad registering puppies from dams who are only 12m months!


The Irish Kennel Club Code Of Ethics



> In consideration of accepting an application to register or transfer I pledge to the Irish Kennel Club that:-
> 
> I shall ensure that at all times all dogs under my control are properly housed, fed, watered, exercised and receive proper Veterinary attention, if and when required.
> 
> ...


I can't find any details on litter registrations though, I would have thought going by that, that they would refuse litter registrations on puppies that are from bitches under 12 months old. Looks like you would have to seek their permission which is what must have been done in this case.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Could be this but Bitch still has to be over 12months
Canine Ireland- Dog Registration Club, Register Pups, Register Puppies, Kennel Club Ireland


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Buffy1 said:


> Thank you but Why does everyone want the girls ? I just don't get it. Maybe its because they are a cute dog, my other half wont walk them, calls them gay dogs :laugh: And having a girl cute dog is even more adorable. I dont know.


Well I wanted a bitch when we got our Bichon but the bitch had been sold and there was just two dogs left so we had one.:laugh: He's wonderful and I wouldn't swap him for the world but we really want a bitch next time because Benji has a problem since he was castrated and all the dogs are in love with him - a little too much sometimes and it does cause problems so it's definitely going to be a bitch for us next time.:laugh: I don't think he could take living with a dog that was jumping on him all the time, it wouldn't be fair to him.

I walk Benji through the day and my o.h walks him at night - in the dark. :laugh:


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

Im glad pup and mum are all ok they are lovely

dont agree with having pups from a pup it is so wrong

also why carnt you sell bichon boys i just dont get this


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Maybe it's just preference and most people want bitches. I know I did although I'm happy with my male Bichon. I have noticed that there are always more Bichon boys available than Bichon girls.


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## Buffy1 (Feb 17, 2009)

Well as you say above, its easy to register animals. There is always some way around it. Im not saying that to throw it in anyones face, its just a fact and its the kennel clubs who should be pulled up on this.
Did you know that anyone can get pedigree papers for an animal once the kennel club agrees to give you them upon reciept of a certificate of pedigree from a vet? I dont know how exactly it works but the vet can do it once he agrees the animal is pedigree.

Can i just say the only sure way to discourage unethical breeding is for breeders who are not breeding to improve already well bred animals,people who just breed because people always want pet puppies, they should be made by law neuter the pup before selling. Or enter into a contract with the new owner to do this once the bitch becomes 6 months/24weeks old. Or suffer some fine or penalty, but breeders are unlikely to do that.

I am not a breeder but if i could afford it i would consider it. Its too easy for a bitch to get caught as i have learned, i have just spent the morning mopping, cleaning up after, feeding and brushing 8 doggies !! Its like having 8 babies! 

I spent this week looking for some where to advertise my puppies for sale, i decided against in the end. 

I found two different people(same phone number on each add and same contact address) with more than one litter of pups for sale at the same time. so i copied the link and reported it to the rspca. 

I dont want my pups advertised on the same site as that.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

cav said:


> also why carnt you sell bichon boys i just dont get this


It's not just bichon boys that aren't selling it's most male dogs....think too many people are seeing pound signs when they are buying dogs now a days and not wanting pets! This recession and it's 'get quick rich' schemes has alot of victims.


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2009)

JSR said:


> It's not just bichon boys that aren't selling it's most male dogs....think too many people are seeing pound signs when they are buying dogs now a days and not wanting pets! This recession and it's 'get quick rich' schemes has alot of victims.


Really?? I didnt realise male dogs were left aside...funny...

Me and my OH we wanted a male SBT not a female (we both had females in the past and both of us wanted a "change") and it wasnt that easy to find at all. We go the only male of the litter we chose and to be completely truthful I did notice that there wasnt much competition for him lol and the breeder was very happy to hold him for us until we could come and see him and then keep him a little longer because we had a week-end trip planned that we couldnt miss.


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## Rach (Sep 4, 2008)

My Cavalier boys have sold...but all my pups are sold with restrictions so it doesn't really make much difference dog or bitch


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

JSR said:


> It's not just bichon boys that aren't selling it's most male dogs....think too many people are seeing pound signs when they are buying dogs now a days and not wanting pets! This recession and it's 'get quick rich' schemes has alot of victims.


Well I only want a pet and would never ever consider breeding - my Bichon was neutered at 7 months old. We have had bitches in the past and I find them more loving and faithful than dogs - but that's just me maybe.:laugh: If and when we get a bitch I will have her speyed as soon as my vet recommends.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

JSR said:


> It's not just bichon boys that aren't selling it's most male dogs....think too many people are seeing pound signs when they are buying dogs now a days and not wanting pets! This recession and it's 'get quick rich' schemes has alot of victims.


well my boys have been reserved and i have endorced boys and girls to try and stop them breeding them when they are old enough.

people were not realy bothered if they had dog or a bitch.

but i spose your right they must be getting the girls to breed,,,,DISGUSTING


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## Rach (Sep 4, 2008)

A saying I heard many years ago - Bitches love you, Dogs are in love with you


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

the dogs are more loving


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

I like girls and boys


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2009)

cav said:


> well my boys have been reserved and i have endorced boys and girls to try and stop them breeding them when they are old enough.
> 
> people were not realy bothered if they had dog or a bitch.
> 
> but i spose your right they must be getting the girls to breed,,,,DISGUSTING


Same here all endorced never know if there going to be good enough to breed from anyway.!



cav said:


> I like girls and boys


Me to there special in different ways


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

the boy are more loving but they are all special to me


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

cav said:


> well my boys have been reserved and i have endorced boys and girls to try and stop them breeding them when they are old enough.
> 
> people were not realy bothered if they had dog or a bitch.
> 
> but i spose your right they must be getting the girls to breed,,,,DISGUSTING


Glad to hear it,:thumbsup: we've had 2 separate 'breeders' contact the rescue this weekend with male puppies they can't sell...now just heard of another that is likely to be contacting us soon as she's got another 2 sets of puppies (jrt's and labs) that she can't get rid of the males!!! Wouldn't mind but I know for a fact this woman has taken her other lab to the stud this weekend to breed again...she's still got a 1 year old from the dogs last litter that she kept because it didn't sell!!!:sad:

Oh and for what it's worth...I'm a male dog person, love my boys and they love their mum..my bitch would happily bog off with anyone who gave her food and a cuddle!!!


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Rach said:


> A saying I heard many years ago - Bitches love you, Dogs are in love with you


Yes that might be true - my dog follows me round 24 hrs a day - he's stuck to me like glue,


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

JSR said:


> Glad to hear it,:thumbsup: we've had 2 separate 'breeders' contact the rescue this weekend with male puppies they can't sell...now just heard of another that is likely to be contacting us soon as she's got another 2 sets of puppies (jrt's and labs) that she can't get rid of the males!!! Wouldn't mind but I know for a fact this woman has taken her other lab to the stud this weekend to breed again...she's still got a 1 year old from the dogs last litter that she kept because it didn't sell!!!:sad:
> 
> Oh and for what it's worth...I'm a male dog person, love my boys and they love their mum..my bitch would happily bog off with anyone who gave her food and a cuddle!!!


well for me if it is for a pet is should not realy matter what sex it is

aaw thats it breed them and then dump them on you lot and then you have to find homes for the poor pups
but i think will get worse

i realy dont know how breeders like this sleep at night


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Buffy1 said:


> Well as you say above, its easy to register animals. There is always some way around it. Im not saying that to throw it in anyones face, its just a fact and its the kennel clubs who should be pulled up on this.
> Did you know that anyone can get pedigree papers for an animal once the kennel club agrees to give you them upon reciept of a certificate of pedigree from a vet? I dont know how exactly it works but the vet can do it once he agrees the animal is pedigree.


Was wondering where you got this info from as over here the Dam and Sire have to be registered before a pup or litter can be registered. Only the Owner/ Breeder of the Bitch can do it and the form has to have a signature from the Stud Dog Owner


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

Buffy1 said:


> Pictures of puppies in question...
> 
> 
> >>
> ...


They are gorgeous!!! I want one!!!:001_wub::001_wub::001_wub::001_wub:


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

I want them all not just one.:laugh:


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

I've been after a Bichon since seeing them at crufts 3 years ago! My OH's friend has just had 8 puppies, about 6 weeks ago and I went to see them last night. They are just adorable!!


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

They are great little dogs. I'm trying to talk my o.h into us having another one at the moment.:laugh: We have a five year old Bichon and I would like a little girl playmate for him cos he seems to get on best with his own breed. He's neutered so don't want one for breeding or anything and if we do eventually get one I will have her spayed.:thumbsup:

Are you going to have one?


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

I'm saving up for one. We can afford the day to day stuff like insurence, food, vet bills but not the inital price for the puppy.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Yes that's what we are doing. I've told my o.h we are definitely having one next year no matter what because I don't want our Bichon to be too old to play before we get another one.


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

I wanted one of Hubby's friends but they are all reserved.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

kayz said:


> I wanted one of Hubby's friends but they are all reserved.


Aww that's a shame.:sad: Maybe somebody will pull out and you might be able to have one.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Have you seen all the ones advertised here? Bichon Frise Dogs and Puppies for sale in UK

Some are Bichon crosses though.


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

I am kinda hoping someone will pull out. I haven't seen those ones, thanks.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Another let's turn a blind eye while they mate they mate thread . When will people learn ?


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

some people on here really need to stop with the nasty coments and attitude does no1 read she never ment to breed them and never planned to have the pups but was advised it was the safe option!! like iv mentioned b4 people come on here for advice and support not sarcastic coment and nasty posts its silly and stupid!!
btw buffy there are sanitary pants you can get them off ebay for dogs stops the dogs in heat and helps keep mess clean...if you know what i mean lol!! dont listen to those who are nasty and nieve rather than suportive...congrats btw!!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> some people on here really need to stop with the nasty coments and attitude does no1 read she never ment to breed them and never planned to have the pups but was advised it was the safe option!! like iv mentioned b4 people come on here for advice and support not sarcastic coment and nasty posts its silly and stupid!!
> btw buffy there are sanitary pants you can get them off ebay for dogs stops the dogs in heat and helps keep mess clean...if you know what i mean lol!! dont listen to those who are nasty and nieve rather than suportive...congrats btw!!


Well said 

This situation has been dealt with. The dog had its pups and beautiful pups they are. They're healthy and happy so let's leave it at that!


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> dont listen to those who are nasty and nieve rather than suportive...congrats btw!!


Nobody has been nasty and naive, it is a very sad situation and many of us can find nothing good in it. It is even sadder that so many people think this is acceptable, 'cute', 'adorable' etc etc..

Accidents can happen, but most are down to carelessness or so called accidental pregnancies that were wanted anyway.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> They're healthy and happy so let's leave it at that!


Sorry, you can't know that. They may be ok now, but no health tests were carried out on either parents so no one knows what inherited problems they will have. And all this has been done at considerable risk. It amazes me that so called animal lovers can find this acceptable and even a wonderful thing.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Sorry, you can't know that. They may be ok now, but no health tests were carried out on either parents so no one knows what inherited problems they will have. And all this has been done at considerable risk. It amazes me that so called animal lovers can find this acceptable and even a wonderful thing.


I'm not saying this is a wonderful thing. I think it was careless to let them mate but accidents happen. As far as I'm aware they're happy and healthy.

But this is life, people make mistakes. I think this subject is over, the OP has probably learnt her lesson with all those extra pups running around. I hope she finds happy forever homes for them.

You don't know that they're not happy and healthy either, do you?


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Sorry, you can't know that. They may be ok now, but no health tests were carried out on either parents so no one knows what inherited problems they will have. And all this has been done at considerable risk. It amazes me that so called animal lovers can find this acceptable and even a wonderful thing.


health tests are no Guarantee of a health pup


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> health tests are no Guarantee of a health pup


Well, it depends on what tests - some are. However, one doesn't expect a guarantee, as animal lover though one does expect care, consideration and doing everything in their power to increase the likelihood of healthy puppies.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

I agree with all Dundee posts as always  Off to bed now night all xx


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

claire said:


> health tests are no Guarantee of a health pup


But it does show that there has been some thought put into the mating!
And better to pair two healthy (tested) dogs, then two that could carried a number of faults.
DT


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Well, it depends on what tests - some are. However, one doesn't expect a guarantee, as animal lover though one does expect care, consideration and doing everything in their power to increase the likelihood of healthy puppies.


I didnt agree with your original post but i agree with this part of the post :thumbsup: also carries to cross breed :thumbsup:



one doesn't expect a guarantee, as animal lover though one does expect care, consideration and doing everything in their power to increase the likelihood of healthy puppies


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Sorry, you can't know that. They may be ok now, but no health tests were carried out on either parents so no one knows what inherited problems they will have. And all this has been done at considerable risk. It amazes me that so called animal lovers can find this acceptable and even a wonderful thing.


 we are all animal lovers some people come on for advice and help not coments in the nature of what you have left like people have said just leave it. it was a MISTAKE!!! end of! god sake


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Well said
> 
> This situation has been dealt with. The dog had its pups and beautiful pups they are. They're healthy and happy so let's leave it at that!


i agree!!! it was a big deal to start with now its done and was a mistake some people are gettin too involved!!:laugh:


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

Buffy1 said:


> I have two Bichons, 1 adult male and my 8 month female. She came into heat for the first time recently, and basically when i was not around my male had his way with her, they were stuck together. I want to know if she can be pregnant so young? What to do if she is? Is there something the vet can do to stop a pregnancy?
> 
> Any information will be a help
> 
> Thanks





staceydawlz said:


> we are all animal lovers some people come on for advice and help not coments in the nature of what you have left like people have said just leave it. it was a MISTAKE!!! end of! god sake


Read the first post they asked for advice the best advice was given but they ignored us and went ahead and had the puppies.!!!! What would they OP have done if they lost there beloved girl due to complications giving birth when they could have not gone a head with the pregnancy


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> i agree!!! it was a big deal to start with now its done and was a mistake some people are gettin too involved!!:laugh:


I must add a mistake that could have been stopped.!!!!!!!
In the first post the OP states "Is there something the vet can do to stop a pregnancy?" 
That question was answered by more than one member 
This sounds to me that the OP does not want the litter so why ignore us and have it anyway??


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Read the first post they asked for advice the best advice was give but the ignored us and went ahead and had the puppies.!!!! What would the OP have done if they lost there beloved girl due to complications giving birth when the could have not gone a head with the pregnancy


I know the OP acted like a fool DD, but thankfully they had the best outcome


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> we are all animal lovers some people come on for advice and help not coments in the nature of what you have left like people have said just leave it. it was a MISTAKE!!! end of! god sake


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


>


I don't think she was referring to you DT


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

sequeena said:


> I don't think she was referring to you DT


I know she wasn't = she was referring to dundee! Who normally gives good advice!  Just thought it was a little OTT and uncalled for!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I know she wasn't = she was referring to dundee! Who normally gives good advice!  Just thought it was a little OTT and uncalled for!


True, but I think it was unfair of him to call us 'so called animal lovers'


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> some people on here really need to stop with the nasty coments and attitude


I agree DT she said this as stated above then she said:

""we are all animal lovers some people come on for advice and help not coments in the nature of what you have left like people have said just leave it. it was a MISTAKE!!! end of! god sake""

Now imo this poster has the attitude now one else


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2009)

sequeena said:


> True, but I think it was unfair of him to call us 'so called animal lovers'


dundee is a female! and guess I must have missed something! so just forget it! But if I had to ask advise of anyone on this forum Dundee would be one of the first people I would call on!
DT


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> dundee is a female! and guess I must have missed something! so just forget it! But if I had to ask advise of anyone on this forum Dundee would be one of the first people I would call on!
> DT


Woops I'm sorry Dundee for thinking you were a man! 

And DT I apologise for having an opinion.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Woops I'm sorry Dundee for thinking you were a man!
> 
> And DT I apologise for having an opinion.


And what exactly does that mean! Maybe I am a little thick! or perhaps there's another reason! I'm not getting into an arguement with anyone tonight out of respect!
goodbye


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And what exactly does that mean! Maybe I am a little thick! or perhaps there's another reason! I'm not getting into an arguement with anyone tonight out of respect!
> goodbye


DT I'm not trying to argue with you, really


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2009)

Don't worry about it! I don't argue! pointless exercise


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Don't worry about it! I don't argue! pointless exercise


I agree, and I'm willing to admit I was wrong and took some posts in the wrong way, sorry to everyone especially you DT and Dundee!


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2009)

sequeena said:


> I agree, and I'm willing to admit I was wrong and took some posts in the wrong way, sorry to everyone especially you DT and Dundee!


No need to apolygise Sequeena - think we are all a little raw!! Can imagine you are pretty devastated yourself! night night! tomorrows another day!
xxx


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## bichonsrus (May 16, 2009)

People come and ask for advice on things, as with anything in life when you are asking an opinion you usually ask a few people to see what they think and then weigh up every opinion as well as your own. There are alot of people on this forum giving advice....not all the same advice.....and im sure the owner of the dogs asked other people and family and had an idea of what they thought they should do obviously not 100 percent which is why the question was raised......ok so what im getting at is at the end of the day the poster of the question chose what to do, they cant take everyones advice out of politness as it would of been impossible to please everybody wouldnt it. I am happy to give advice on here and if no one wants to take that.....thats fine......give your opinion and move on........simple!:thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2009)

I agree you dont have to take everyones advice but i would have least hoped that the responsible advice was taken in this case sadly it wasnt..I still dont get how when weighing up the pros and cons it was thought that letting the bitch have puppies was better..!! Hey Ho just my views im walking away now.. Whats done is done until next time


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2009)

bichonsrus said:


> People come and ask for advice on things, as with anything in life when you are asking an opinion you usually ask a few people to see what they think and then weigh up every opinion as well as your own. There are alot of people on this forum giving advice....not all the same advice.....and im sure the owner of the dogs asked other people and family and had an idea of what they thought they should do obviously not 100 percent which is why the question was raised......ok so what im getting at is at the end of the day the poster of the question chose what to do, they cant take everyones advice out of politness as it would of been impossible to please everybody wouldnt it. I am happy to give advice on here and if no one wants to take that.....thats fine......give your opinion and move on........simple!:thumbsup:


That is fair enough when the advice sought is something of less importance i'e food, training, behavior etc! But in my opinion this was something that was morally wrong! Our breed club will not allow bitches to be mated under the age of 2 years! if you do so you are frowned upon! The KC I think may be younger! but hey 8 months! she's still a pup herself! 
And I can well see why experienced breeders who study long and hard to get the best possible mating feel the need to say their piece ! 
DT


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## bichonsrus (May 16, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That is fair enough when the advice sought is something of less importance i'e food, training, behavior etc! But in my opinion this was something that was morally wrong! Our breed club will not allow bitches to be mated under the age of 2 years! if you do so you are frowned upon! The KC I think may be younger! but hey 8 months! she's still a pup herself!
> And I can well see why experienced breeders who study long and hard to get the best possible mating feel the need to say their piece !
> DT


Im not saying i dont agree with aspects of what you have said at all but i think there were alot of different moral issues here also and for that reason we can give OUR moral judgement or ethical judgement but there were more than one way to go here ie have the pups , dont have the pups, NEITHER predicament was the right one, not an ideal situation to be in, but ONE had to be chosen. The predicament was a sad one to say the least but a solution had to be found, maybe it got lost in all the other comments,,,,,,,,,,,,people do get diffensive when bombarded with personal outrage..........im not on the attack here either lol.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2009)

bichonsrus said:


> Im not saying i dont agree with aspects of what you have said at all but i think there were alot of different moral issues here also and for that reason we can give OUR moral judgement or ethical judgement but there were more than one way to go here ie have the pups , dont have the pups, NEITHER predicament was the right one, not an ideal situation to be in, but ONE had to be chosen. The predicament was a sad one to say the least but a solution had to be found, maybe it got lost in all the other comments,,,,,,,,,,,,people do get diffensive when bombarded with personal outrage..........im not on the attack here either lol.


Not for one moment thinking that you are on the attack! But not quite sure what exactly you are saying either! I think this is one of those that we have to agree - the pregnancy should not have happened! but it did - so can see where you may be coming from!

Whether the mismate were to late of not I don't know! but I thinking allowing a pregnancy to continue if there were other options was reckles.s!
It could have resulted in the loss of both the bitch and the pups!

Check my basset hound thread if it's still her! Year old bitch, c section, did not survive!! not very nice!!! nor responsible imo! Those that bread on here give good advice! and I can understand when things get heated when posters ask a question then chose to ignore.
regards
DT


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## bichonsrus (May 16, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Not for one moment thinking that you are on the attack! But not quite sure what exactly you are saying either! I think this is one of those that we have to agree - the pregnancy should not have happened! but it did - so can see where you may be coming from!
> 
> Whether the mismate were to late of not I don't know! but I thinking allowing a pregnancy to continue if there were other options was reckles.s!
> It could have resulted in the loss of both the bitch and the pups!
> ...


I do hear where your coming from.


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