# Help - Bulging eye.



## zowie

Rosie's left eye appears to be bulging out. She's always been a bit googly eyed i suppose but over the last few days iv noticed that the actual eye ball looks likes its been pushed out and up slightly.(so slightly that i think iv only noticed it because i know what she looks like and see her every day) If i rub the top of her head,the bit above the eye feels a bit big and squishy compared to the other eye and if i look at her face on,there is a difference in position of both eyes. The eye itself doesn't look infected,irritable swollen or anything. Iv tried to pull the eye lid open a bit to see if there was anything in it but i couldn't see anything and it doesn't look sore. It doesn't seem to be bothering her or causing her discomfort,she doesn't rub it or over clean it or anything. Towards the front,more of the white bit of the left eye is showing than the right. Its really difficult to take a photo of. She is not acting out of character at all,she's eating,drinking,pooing,hopping about as usual. I don't think it can be teeth related because she eats so much and certainly isn't struggling to eat. Iv read about abscess's in the head or tumors in the chest - anyone got any experience or know anything more about it?? Im going to take her to the vets this week. Im assuming they will keep her in for an xray,but what should i expect after that? What treatment could be offered and what should i agree to or disagree to? I don't want to put her through unnecessary prodding and poking but i will do all i can for her.


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## Guest

I would say she needs to see the vet as soon as possible, it could be a tooth root problem that has caused an abscess behind the eye, it could be a tumour, she could have injured her eye which has caused scarring.
The treatment will completely depend on the prognosis obviously.
If it is an abscess I would expect pain relief and strong antibiotics but abscesses are very hard to get rid of completely if they are unable to drain them


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## Wobbles

Your rabbit sounds like it has exactly the same thing mine had, and exactly the same symptoms. Her eye was bulging/buggy, turned up,and looked misaligned to the other one. The vet said she probably had a lump behind it, was incurable and wanted to put her down that day. He also said I could leave it and just enjoy the time she had left or an op to remove it to try and save her. The op had less than 80% chance of working. I wouldn't allow it without fighting first, so she had a week of drops and an injection and when that didn't work, I agreed to have the eye removed as it was painful and nothing else was working. The vet found no lump behind it, so she was just unlucky and caught an infection. After 3-4 weeks of daily penicillin injections, she recovered. She's now just had her first birthday, gets around no problems and apart from only having one eye, you'd never tell there was ever anything wrong with her. I don't want to give you false hope, but they can recover, and if the vet you see gives you a pts diagnoses I'd get a second opinion. I did and it probably saved her life - had I listened to the first one, she'd have been dead by the end of the day. Vets aren't right 100% of the time.

P.S somewhere, on the rabbit threads, I have a thread about mine, with pics of her eye if you want to compare them to yours, to see if it look the same. It would be around the august threads.

EDIT: Found it http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/181237-update-opinions-please.html


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> I would say she needs to see the vet as soon as possible, it could be a tooth root problem that has caused an abscess behind the eye, it could be a tumour, she could have injured her eye which has caused scarring.
> The treatment will completely depend on the prognosis obviously.
> If it is an abscess I would expect pain relief and strong antibiotics but abscesses are very hard to get rid of completely if they are unable to drain them


She's going in at 8 wednesday morning. Would she still be able to eat properly if it was a tooth root problem?



colliewobble said:


> Your rabbit sounds like it has exactly the same thing mine had, and exactly the same symptoms. Her eye was bulging/buggy, turned up,and looked misaligned to the other one. The vet said she probably had a lump behind it, was incurable and wanted to put her down that day. He also said I could leave it and just enjoy the time she had left or an op to remove it to try and save her. The op had less than 80% chance of working. I wouldn't allow it without fighting first, so she had a week of drops and an injection and when that didn't work, I agreed to have the eye removed as it was painful and nothing else was working. The vet found no lump behind it, so she was just unlucky and caught an infection. After 3-4 weeks of daily penicillin injections, she recovered. She's now just had her first birthday, gets around no problems and apart from only having one eye, you'd never tell there was ever anything wrong with her. I don't want to give you false hope, but they can recover, and if the vet you see gives you a pts diagnoses I'd get a second opinion. I did and it probably saved her life - had I listened to the first one, she'd have been dead by the end of the day. Vets aren't right 100% of the time.
> 
> P.S somewhere, on the rabbit threads, I have a thread about mine, with pics of her eye if you want to compare them to yours, to see if it look the same. It would be around the august threads.
> 
> EDIT: Found it http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/181237-update-opinions-please.html


Yes,its exactly like that!! Probably not quite as bad but its definitely got the same thing going on. Because she's black and fluffy,i cant get a photo. So did you have xrays done when she first went or did you just try drops and the injection to see how it went? I dont know what to expect with how the vet will approach it on wednesday,i dont know whether il be leaving her there for the day or be given medicine to try. I hope its nothing too serious,il give it a good fight though. Eyes just make me go a bit funny!!! I can deal with most things but eyes send a shiver down my spine!!


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## Guest

zowie said:


> She's going in at 8 wednesday morning. Would she still be able to eat properly if it was a tooth root problem?
> 
> Yes,its exactly like that!! Probably not quite as bad but its definitely got the same thing going on. Because she's black and fluffy,i cant get a photo. So did you have xrays done when she first went or did you just try drops and the injection to see how it went? I dont know what to expect with how the vet will approach it on wednesday,i dont know whether il be leaving her there for the day or be given medicine to try. I hope its nothing too serious,il give it a good fight though. Eyes just make me go a bit funny!!! I can deal with most things but eyes send a shiver down my spine!!


Yes she could very well still eat with tooth problems, even when Bluey's teeth were so bad they had pierced his tongue he still ate happily.

I would expect an x-ray to find out what you are dealing with in all honesty.


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> Yes she could very well still eat with tooth problems, even when Bluey's teeth were so bad they had pierced his tongue he still ate happily.
> 
> I would expect an x-ray to find out what you are dealing with in all honesty.


I expect my vet will suggest an xray,id be happier to have her xrayed first rather than just trying some medication and hoping for the best. Also,poor Rosie is at the bottom of the rank in the shed,could i end up having to start all over again if she is out of the group for any length of time?? Or will she just fit back in like nothing happened??


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## Guest

zowie said:


> I expect my vet will suggest an xray,id be happier to have her xrayed first rather than just trying some medication and hoping for the best. Also,poor Rosie is at the bottom of the rank in the shed,could i end up having to start all over again if she is out of the group for any length of time?? Or will she just fit back in like nothing happened??


That I can't guarantee unfortunately, every group reacts differently. Depending on what is wrong will depend if she needs splitting for anytime.
It is just something you are going to have to play be ear, but yes there is a possibility that you will have to re-bond from scratch.


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## Wobbles

zowie said:


> She's going in at 8 wednesday morning. Would she still be able to eat properly if it was a tooth root problem?
> 
> Yes,its exactly like that!! Probably not quite as bad but its definitely got the same thing going on. Because she's black and fluffy,i cant get a photo. So did you have xrays done when she first went or did you just try drops and the injection to see how it went? I dont know what to expect with how the vet will approach it on wednesday,i dont know whether il be leaving her there for the day or be given medicine to try. I hope its nothing too serious,il give it a good fight though. Eyes just make me go a bit funny!!! I can deal with most things but eyes send a shiver down my spine!!


Zowie I have found all 3 threads I made on my bun so I've put them here for you, as they say what the vet suggested, what she had meds wise etc.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/178673-help-needed-urgent-please.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/179871-why-has-stopped-working.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/181237-update-opinions-please.html

No I didn't have an X-ray done first, my vet said it would be a waste of time and money as a lump/mass/ abscess wasn't bone so wouldn't show up on an X-ray. Yes eyes make me a bit squicky as well, but not as bad as an eye socket with no eye in it! The reason mine looks so bad in the pic is probably because she's a white bun so any redness and inflamation looks 10 times worse!

Oh and I hadn't bonded mine at this point, but it took 2-3 weeks before I felt she was ready and safe enough to try. I kept her in the house in an indoor cage for that time away from anything, as she was too sore and scared to want anything near her.


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> That I can't guarantee unfortunately, every group reacts differently. Depending on what is wrong will depend if she needs splitting for anytime.
> It is just something you are going to have to play be ear, but yes there is a possibility that you will have to re-bond from scratch.


Great!!! I was thinking id had enough of bonding so far this year as id eventually got them living together happily!! Il see what happens i suppose.



colliewobble said:


> Zowie I have found all 3 threads I made on my bun so I've put them here for you, as they say what the vet suggested, what she had meds wise etc.
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/178673-help-needed-urgent-please.html
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/179871-why-has-stopped-working.html
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/181237-update-opinions-please.html
> 
> No I didn't have an X-ray done first, my vet said it would be a waste of time and money as a lump/mass/ abscess wasn't bone so wouldn't show up on an X-ray. Yes eyes make me a bit squicky as well, but not as bad as an eye socket with no eye in it! The reason mine looks so bad in the pic is probably because she's a white bun so any redness and inflamation looks 10 times worse!
> 
> Oh and I hadn't bonded mine at this point, but it took 2-3 weeks before I felt she was ready and safe enough to try. I kept her in the house in an indoor cage for that time away from anything, as she was too sore and scared to want anything near her.


Thankyou for the links. It sounds like I could be going through something similar. Il see whats said on Wednesday. You had a good outcome though. Im so worried about it. Does she get on well only having one eye though?? Do you have to have any special arrangement's to make life easier for her?


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## hazyreality

Cant really add anything, not had any bad eyes here, touch wood...
Just wanted to say good luck for Wednesday


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## zowie

hazyreality said:


> Cant really add anything, not had any bad eyes here, touch wood...
> Just wanted to say good luck for Wednesday


Thank you,im really scared for her. I just don't know what to expect. But why an eye problem when i cant stand eyes!!!! Im obviously being tested here!!! Its making me go all funny knowing iv got to out in the shed in a minute and see it and its not even really that bad at the moment


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## Wobbles

zowie said:


> Thankyou for the links. It sounds like I could be going through something similar. Il see whats said on Wednesday. You had a good outcome though. Im so worried about it. Does she get on well only having one eye though?? Do you have to have any special arrangement's to make life easier for her?


Yes she does sound extremely similar to mine, the symptoms you described where identical to what I would have described Angel's as.

I went through everything possible first to try and save the eye, then when that was obviously not working, to save Angel herself. I simply did not believe that the vet was right about putting her to sleep. I'm not sure why exactly all I can put it down to is gut instinct and it paid off. Had I listened to the vet straight away she wouldn't be here today, like I said they're not always right and I am extremely glad I listened to my own instinct not the vets.

I worried when I first saw her, was devasted at the diagnoses and felt sheer despair and frustration that the first mess werent working. I also felt extremely guilty for not seeing it sooner but the vet told me I would never have known until it started bugging out which eased the guilt a little. I also felt terrible about her loosing an eye until I was told she couldn't see out of it and it was painful, so it was best removed. That again made me feel better about it as it wasn't like she would loose half her sight if I gave the ok for removal, as she'd already lost it.

She gets on fine with only one eye, I was afraid she'd bump into stuff, but she runs, hops and bounces around with no problems whatsover. The only thing is she's a bit wary ( understandably) if you approach her blind side, and will jump or bat you with her paws if she doesn't know your there. Obviously there is a disadvantage when it comes to spotting birds/cats/dogs as they could sneak up on her without her realising, but other than that she's no different to any other bunny. Yes it's a shame she only has one eye so young, but at least she only lost an eye not her life. Her breeder was upset when I told her, as she'd never had such a thing before and was afraid it was genetic , but she had her buns tested and they were all fine so I guess Angel was simply unlucky. I will post some pics of her tomorrow so you can see how she is now and I also have some after surgery pics if you want, to give you an idea of how she could be. I'll say now I wish I'd been forewarned - I had such a shock the vet tried to calm me down!!


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## zowie

colliewobble said:


> Yes she does sound extremely similar to mine, the symptoms you described where identical to what I would have described Angel's as.
> 
> I went through everything possible first to try and save the eye, then when that was obviously not working, to save Angel herself. I simply did not believe that the vet was right about putting her to sleep. I'm not sure why exactly all I can put it down to is gut instinct and it paid off. Had I listened to the vet straight away she wouldn't be here today, like I said they're not always right and I am extremely glad I listened to my own instinct not the vets.
> 
> I worried when I first saw her, was devasted at the diagnoses and felt sheer despair and frustration that the first mess werent working. I also felt extremely guilty for not seeing it sooner but the vet told me I would never have known until it started bugging out which eased the guilt a little. I also felt terrible about her loosing an eye until I was told she couldn't see out of it and it was painful, so it was best removed. That again made me feel better about it as it wasn't like she would loose half her sight if I gave the ok for removal, as she'd already lost it.
> 
> She gets on fine with only one eye, I was afraid she'd bump into stuff, but she runs, hops and bounces around with no problems whatsover. The only thing is she's a bit wary ( understandably) if you approach her blind side, and will jump or bat you with her paws if she doesn't know your there. Obviously there is a disadvantage when it comes to spotting birds/cats/dogs as they could sneak up on her without her realising, but other than that she's no different to any other bunny. Yes it's a shame she only has one eye so young, but at least she only lost an eye not her life. Her breeder was upset when I told her, as she'd never had such a thing before and was afraid it was genetic , but she had her buns tested and they were all fine so I guess Angel was simply unlucky. I will post some pics of her tomorrow so you can see how she is now and I also have some after surgery pics if you want, to give you an idea of how she could be. I'll say now I wish I'd been forewarned - I had such a shock the vet tried to calm me down!!


Yeah im pretty sure its something similar,or at least i hope so! I certainly wont have her pts if its something like that,il try my best to keep the eye and do whats right for her. I always go with my gut instinct too and unless im told that she really is ill and is in alot of pain,il try anything.

Im feeling guilty about not noticing it sooner too but she has always had slightly googly eyes,so iv never thought anything of it until it really started to show. It'l be interesting to see if Rosie can still see out of it,she acts like she can.

It doesnt sound like its affected Angel much atall really. Id be a bit worried for Rosie because she is at the bottom of the rank out of the 4 of them and doesnt get much affection from any of them and the boss doesnt let her go in certain spots of the shed and it would concern me that if couldnt see very well then she would just have problems with the boss,through no fault of her own. She's very scatty as it is!! If she lost her eye,it might be a case of re-structuring the shed,so she has her own space and i get her a little boyfriend that would love her lots and help her out a bit.

So it was just one of those unlucky things that happened?? There wasnt anything particular that causes it??

Id love to see some pictures please,just incase im faced with it at some point,at least il know what to expect.


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## Wobbles

zowie said:


> Yeah im pretty sure its something similar,or at least i hope so! I certainly wont have her pts if its something like that,il try my best to keep the eye and do whats right for her. I always go with my gut instinct too and unless im told that she really is ill and is in alot of pain,il try anything.
> 
> Im feeling guilty about not noticing it sooner too but she has always had slightly googly eyes,so iv never thought anything of it until it really started to show. It'l be interesting to see if Rosie can still see out of it,she acts like she can.
> 
> It doesnt sound like its affected Angel much atall really. Id be a bit worried for Rosie because she is at the bottom of the rank out of the 4 of them and doesnt get much affection from any of them and the boss doesnt let her go in certain spots of the shed and it would concern me that if couldnt see very well then she would just have problems with the boss,through no fault of her own. She's very scatty as it is!! If she lost her eye,it might be a case of re-structuring the shed,so she has her own space and i get her a little boyfriend that would love her lots and help her out a bit.
> 
> So it was just one of those unlucky things that happened?? There wasnt anything particular that causes it??
> 
> Id love to see some pictures please,just incase im faced with it at some point,at least il know what to expect.


I'm still not sure exactly what caused it, the vet said an infection, so yes it was just one of those things that happened. Like I said, her breeder tested all her other bunnies and they all came back clear, so Angel must've simply been unlucky. Sometimes it is an abcess behind the eye that causes it, when it starts growing it pushes the eye out. This is what the vet though was wrong to start with, which is why there wasn't much chance of an op working. He said rabbit abcess can be very difficult to completely get rid of, and unfortunately the only way to know for sure was to remove the eye to see what was going on behind it. All he found was some kind of liquidy stuff which he said was the result of an infection. Like you, I felt really guilty for not spotting it sooner and also for her having lost her eye for 'nothing', but the vet told me it would of been impossible to know there was anything wrong until it started bulging out, and that it was definately for the best that it was removed, as not only was it painful, , it could have been something wrong with the actual eyeball so it was best to simply get rid. Also it would never have sat in the socket properly again, so it was at high risk of getting knocked or damaged further.

I didn't take any pics immediately after bringing her home, I didn't think it was fair to start snapping images of her after she'd just had surgery, but for the first 5 days she looked terrible. I wasn't allowed to clean the blood off for five days incase it disturbed the stitches and 'pellets' they put in the socket, so she really did look grim. Most of the hair on the left side of her face was shaved right down, so you could actually see the outline of her skull She probably looked even worse cos she's white, a black or dark bun would possibly not be quite so obvious. My vet even said they have a theory that the whiter the animal, the more it bleeds as it stands out so much worse!

These were taken after about a week, and I'd managed to clean her up a bit:





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This one a good 2 or 3 weeks after:



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The fur had started to grow back at this point so she looked much better!

This was 2 months afterwards, so you can see how quick the fur does actually grow back:



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And these were taken today so this is how she is now:



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Apart from only having one eye, you would never guess there was anything wrong with her now, she's fit, healthy, happy, eats like there's no tomorrow and runs around with no problems. I guess animals really do learn to adapt quicker than people. Plus she was already blind in that side anyway, as according to the vet, as soon as they eye bugs out like that the sight goes as it isn't attached properly anymore.



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Hope these are of some help


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## zowie

colliewobble said:


> I'm still not sure exactly what caused it, the vet said an infection, so yes it was just one of those things that happened. Like I said, her breeder tested all her other bunnies and they all came back clear, so Angel must've simply been unlucky. Sometimes it is an abcess behind the eye that causes it, when it starts growing it pushes the eye out. This is what the vet though was wrong to start with, which is why there wasn't much chance of an op working. He said rabbit abcess can be very difficult to completely get rid of, and unfortunately the only way to know for sure was to remove the eye to see what was going on behind it. All he found was some kind of liquidy stuff which he said was the result of an infection. Like you, I felt really guilty for not spotting it sooner and also for her having lost her eye for 'nothing', but the vet told me it would of been impossible to know there was anything wrong until it started bulging out, and that it was definately for the best that it was removed, as not only was it painful, , it could have been something wrong with the actual eyeball so it was best to simply get rid. Also it would never have sat in the socket properly again, so it was at high risk of getting knocked or damaged further.
> 
> I didn't take any pics immediately after bringing her home, I didn't think it was fair to start snapping images of her after she'd just had surgery, but for the first 5 days she looked terrible. I wasn't allowed to clean the blood off for five days incase it disturbed the stitches and 'pellets' they put in the socket, so she really did look grim. Most of the hair on the left side of her face was shaved right down, so you could actually see the outline of her skull She probably looked even worse cos she's white, a black or dark bun would possibly not be quite so obvious. My vet even said they have a theory that the whiter the animal, the more it bleeds as it stands out so much worse!
> 
> Apart from only having one eye, you would never guess there was anything wrong with her now, she's fit, healthy, happy, eats like there's no tomorrow and runs around with no problems. I guess animals really do learn to adapt quicker than people. Plus she was already blind in that side anyway, as according to the vet, as soon as they eye bugs out like that the sight goes as it isn't attached properly anymore.
> 
> Hope these are of some help


Thats not actually quite as bad as i thought it could be!! Thanks for posting them. It certainly hasnt affected her looks,she's gorgeous!!! You cant even really notice that the eye isnt there really.

Well iv been to the vets and i dont think its looking good.  She had a really wet chin that i hadnt noticed and dont know how i didnt notice it,i feel awful for that. Although i am wondering if it was the travelling that stressed her out and made it worse. But either way,i feel like i should have been more on the ball and seen it. She has got lumps in her bottom jaw that shouldnt be there. They have taken her in to do xrays to see whats going on with her teeth and see if its an abscess/tumor/lump and how bad etc etc. I asked if she could see because,as cruel as it might sound but i was waving my finger infront of her eye and she didnt even flinch, where as if i do that to the others,they move their heads. She checked both her eyes and said that the retina on both eyes appear to be working but there isnt any reaction in either eye which she said was strange and will look further into it later, but does that mean that she cant see atall??? Im not too sure what my options are now really. The vet said let her see what she finds first,then discuss the options but she made it sound like she will find a mess going on her mouth as there are lumps in the bottom jaw but the eye is still very affected,so it must be the whole side of her face that is being affected by something and if it is an abscess,emphsized how difficult they are to get rid of. I cant remember what else she said,i was in such a state and cried so much that the vet gave me a cuddle!!


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## Guest

It sounds very much like teeth problems now  I hope the x-rays come back with good news.


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> It sounds very much like teeth problems now  I hope the x-rays come back with good news.


So what happens if it is teeth? What's the best thing to do for Rosie?


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## Guest

zowie said:


> So what happens if it is teeth? What's the best thing to do for Rosie?


It depends what the actual problem is tbh, if it is abcsesses and the infection has gone into the bone then really there is only one thing you can do for the best IMO.
But if there is no infection in the bone it is worth fighting so long as she is happy to fight.

If it is root issues that yet again depends how bad they are and how many teeth are affected, if she has to have teeth removed don't panic too much because buns cope very well after teeth removal so long as their diet is altered


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> It depends what the actual problem is tbh, if it is abcsesses and the infection has gone into the bone then really there is only one thing you can do for the best IMO.
> But if there is no infection in the bone it is worth fighting so long as she is happy to fight.
> 
> If it is root issues that yet again depends how bad they are and how many teeth are affected, if she has to have teeth removed don't panic too much because buns cope very well after teeth removal so long as their diet is altered


I suppose il have to see what the xrays show. does infection in the bone show up clearly on xrays?

The vet said that removing back teeth is a horrible operation,is that right?


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## Guest

zowie said:


> I suppose il have to see what the xrays show. does infection in the bone show up clearly on xrays?
> 
> The vet said that removing back teeth is a horrible operation,is that right?


Yeah they will be able to tell if the infection has spread to the bone from x-ray's 

Yes your vet is right, removal of the back teeth is a difficult operation but I have known a few rabbits that have had molars removed and they have gone on to lead happy lives. It is an operation that I would only recommend if 100% necessary.


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> Yeah they will be able to tell if the infection has spread to the bone from x-ray's
> 
> Yes your vet is right, removal of the back teeth is a difficult operation but I have known a few rabbits that have had molars removed and they have gone on to lead happy lives. It is an operation that I would only recommend if 100% necessary.


Im still waiting to hear. i thought they would have txt to say she'd woken up by now at least. i hope its not as serious as i think it could be.

That's what she said,that it would only be an option if it was completely necessary and said that because it can be a very long operation,she would be a bit concerned about putting her through it if she didn't have to.


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## Guest

zowie said:


> Im still waiting to hear. i thought they would have txt to say she'd woken up by now at least. i hope its not as serious as i think it could be.
> 
> That's what she said,that it would only be an option if it was completely necessary and said that because it can be a very long operation,she would be a bit concerned about putting her through it if she didn't have to.


No news is good news 
They might not have put her under until later in the morning especially if any emergencies came in.

I hope it turns out to be something simple for her (hugs)


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> No news is good news
> They might not have put her under until later in the morning especially if any emergencies came in.
> 
> I hope it turns out to be something simple for her (hugs)


Thankyou.  yeah,think positive! Its just worrying me now that she might not be able to see atall,would i have known if she was blind? Iv always put her down to just being scatty. she is known for running into bowls and freaking out if the others jump near her,but iv always thought that was just her but it would now make sense if she can't see anything.


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## Wobbles

Thank you and I hope the pics helped!

When I moved my hand in front of Angel's eye there was no response, and when the vet shone a torch in it, the pupil didn't open/close like it should, so it was obvious she couldn't see from it. One way I tested it was to flick my fingers at her as though i was going to flick her in the eye, as this would definately make her react, just like it would a person but I got absolutely nothing.

It does sound like its a tooth problem now, but I will say Angel had a wet nose as the 'goo' from the infection was leaking down from her eye, and afaik eyes/nose/ throat are 'connected', but not a wet chin. I have however, had a chinchilla with a wet chin and he had 3 big lumps under his mouth and neck when I examined him. Most likely a tooth problem ( though he was fed properly), but as he couldn't open his mouth to eat or drink and was in obvious pain I had him put to sleep straight away. It came on very fast with him, one day he was fine, the next 2 a bit quiet ( but I had just changed his cage so thought that's why) and the next night I found him hunched up and found the lumps so they can appear very fast. I know chins and buns aren't the same but they do technically have 'the same' sort of skull and mouth/teeth.

I hope your girl is ok and you get a good outcome from the vets when they call x


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## hazyreality

Fingers crossed here thats its not too serious.

I too am dreading vets news today  

*Heidi*


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## zowie

colliewobble said:


> Thank you and I hope the pics helped!
> 
> When I moved my hand in front of Angel's eye there was no response, and when the vet shone a torch in it, the pupil didn't open/close like it should, so it was obvious she couldn't see from it. One way I tested it was to flick my fingers at her as though i was going to flick her in the eye, as this would definately make her react, just like it would a person but I got absolutely nothing.
> 
> It does sound like its a tooth problem now, but I will say Angel had a wet nose as the 'goo' from the infection was leaking down from her eye, and afaik eyes/nose/ throat are 'connected', but not a wet chin. I have however, had a chinchilla with a wet chin and he had 3 big lumps under his mouth and neck when I examined him. Most likely a tooth problem ( though he was fed properly), but as he couldn't open his mouth to eat or drink and was in obvious pain I had him put to sleep straight away. It came on very fast with him, one day he was fine, the next 2 a bit quiet ( but I had just changed his cage so thought that's why) and the next night I found him hunched up and found the lumps so they can appear very fast. I know chins and buns aren't the same but they do technically have 'the same' sort of skull and mouth/teeth.
> 
> I hope your girl is ok and you get a good outcome from the vets when they call x


Yeah i tried flicking at her and there wasnt any response atall. She had a dry nose,there wasnt any goo or anything. Poor chin,how sad.



hazyreality said:


> Fingers crossed here thats its not too serious.
> 
> I too am dreading vets news today
> 
> *Heidi*


Oh no,what news are you dreading??

Well,iv just heard from the vet. The lumps in the bottom jaw are teeth growing out through the bone and the bone is infected around the eye. Im going in at 5:15 to look at the xrays and to discuss whats next. She said to try antibiotics but they most probably wont touch it and the only option after that is major surgery. I dont know what to do. I dont want her suffering when she quite clearly isnt right but dont want to lose her either.


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## Guest

Oh no, that isn't good news at all 
I think you need to weigh up your pro's and cons with your vet and go from there I'm afraid, once the infection is in the bone it is very hard to beat 

(HUGE HUGS)


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## hazyreality

zowie said:


> Oh no,what news are you dreading??
> 
> Well,iv just heard from the vet. The lumps in the bottom jaw are teeth growing out through the bone and the bone is infected around the eye. Im going in at 5:15 to look at the xrays and to discuss whats next. She said to try antibiotics but they most probably wont touch it and the only option after that is major surgery. I dont know what to do. I dont want her suffering when she quite clearly isnt right but dont want to lose her either.


Sabre (our dog) has to go at 5.30, I'm not sure if he will come home again, he looks so poorly  I've been bawling most of the afternoon. Its me and mum taking him and I am dreading it.

Sorry to hear that its in the bone  
I'm sure whatever you and the vets decide, its going to be right for Rosie. 
*big wet faced hugs coming your way*

*Heidi*


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> Oh no, that isn't good news at all
> I think you need to weigh up your pro's and cons with your vet and go from there I'm afraid, once the infection is in the bone it is very hard to beat
> 
> (HUGE HUGS)


On the phone it seemed like she thinks that surgery is an option but do i put Rosie through it or not?? Iv still got to talk about whether she can see or not. I just think that having teeth out all over the show and im assuming that if the bone is infected,they take out the eye and cut away some bone which would then leave her with half a head,which then some infection could still be left in there,which then spreads even further into the remaining bone,which then there isnt anything thing else left to cut away. I dont know if its worth putting her through it. Its not like i can even rely on the other rabbits looking after her because she isnt that close to them,she spends more time on her own. Im so torn.

(crying: crying on your shoulder :crying)


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## Guest

zowie said:


> On the phone it seemed like she thinks that surgery is an option but do i put Rosie through it or not?? Iv still got to talk about whether she can see or not. I just think that having teeth out all over the show and im assuming that if the bone is infected,they take out the eye and cut away some bone which would then leave her with half a head,which then some infection could still be left in there,which then spreads even further into the remaining bone,which then there isnt anything thing else left to cut away. I dont know if its worth putting her through it. Its not like i can even rely on the other rabbits looking after her because she isnt that close to them,she spends more time on her own. Im so torn.
> 
> (crying: crying on your shoulder :crying)


I'm so sorry but only you can decide if the op is an option 
You know your rabbit and you will know if this is something she will fight. If she was mine I would let her tell me if she wants to fight, so long as she fought, I would fight with her BUT she isn't my rabbit (hugs)

I can tell you that rabbits can cope amazingly well with limited sight because their eyesight isn't that great in the first place, they rely more on scent and sound so her losing sight isn't a huge concern.

Do you know how bad the infection in the bone is? Or will you find out once at the vets?


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## zowie

hazyreality said:


> Sabre (our dog) has to go at 5.30, I'm not sure if he will come home again, he looks so poorly  I've been bawling most of the afternoon. Its me and mum taking him and I am dreading it.
> 
> Sorry to hear that its in the bone
> I'm sure whatever you and the vets decide, its going to be right for Rosie.
> *big wet faced hugs coming your way*
> 
> *Heidi*


Oh thats awful. Whats wrong with him? Poor Sabre. I hope he's ok.

I dont know what to do. Im rubbish at making these sorts of decisions. Either way il feel horrendous.

We can cry togther! I think even my top is wet where iv cried so much.

*big massive wet faced sloppy hugs coming right back at you!!*


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> I'm so sorry but only you can decide if the op is an option
> You know your rabbit and you will know if this is something she will fight. If she was mine I would let her tell me if she wants to fight, so long as she fought, I would fight with her BUT she isn't my rabbit (hugs)
> 
> I can tell you that rabbits can cope amazingly well with limited sight because their eyesight isn't that great in the first place, they rely more on scent and sound so her losing sight isn't a huge concern.
> 
> Do you know how bad the infection in the bone is? Or will you find out once at the vets?


Il see how she looks when i see her,although she'l probably still be drowsey from the GA. As much as she's at the bottom of the rank with the others,shes a determined little thing,so she might fight it.

Maybe she would be ok plodding about with no sight then! Poor thing.

No not yet,she wants a second opinion from another vet to confirm how infected it is and said she'l show me when i go in.


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## Wobbles

Only you know your bun but personally I would go with your gut instinct

Honestly they do cope amazingly well with limited sight,like B3rnie says rabbits rely more on their keen sense of smell and hearing, like most small animals sight isn't such a big deal to them like it is to us.

Good luck to you and Rosie whatever you decide


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## zowie

Well,we're both home safe and sound  I went into the room and she jumped up at me with a mouthful of hay and was really pleased to see me. They've put her on metacam and depocillin by injection,she said baytrill wouldn't touch it. I saw the xrays,the bottom teeth are poking down very slightly through the jaw and the view from above her head shows that right eye socket is all how it should be with a clear line around it but the left eye socket looks all smudgy. She had the spurs on the teeth sorted out. She said that she's never known anyone to notice something like that so quickly so that made me feel a bit better. Im going to give her the medicine for a week and we are going back for a check up next Thursday to see how she's feeling. Im going to keep an eye on the dribbly chin,but since we've been back,there doesn't seem to be any dribble,so im wondering if she's just not good with car journeys and got a bit stressed. I feel better that im trying something for her,she seemed so happy when i went to get her that my gut instinct was to not give up. Is this something that is my fault? Could i have done something differently for it not to happen?


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## Guest

zowie said:


> Well,we're both home safe and sound  I went into the room and she jumped up at me with a mouthful of hay and was really pleased to see me. They've put her on metacam and depocillin by injection,she said baytrill wouldn't touch it. I saw the xrays,the bottom teeth are poking down very slightly through the jaw and the view from above her head shows that right eye socket is all how it should be with a clear line around it but the left eye socket looks all smudgy. She had the spurs on the teeth sorted out. She said that she's never known anyone to notice something like that so quickly so that made me feel a bit better. Im going to give her the medicine for a week and we are going back for a check up next Thursday to see how she's feeling. Im going to keep an eye on the dribbly chin,but since we've been back,there doesn't seem to be any dribble,so im wondering if she's just not good with car journeys and got a bit stressed. I feel better that im trying something for her,she seemed so happy when i went to get her that my gut instinct was to not give up. Is this something that is my fault? Could i have done something differently for it not to happen?


That's great news, I hope Rosie will fight with you  It is great that you caught it so early so has a much better chance because of that 

An NO this is not your fault, this is something that couldn't have been avoided (well you couldn't have avoided it), this will all be down to her breeding but if she fights this is something that can be managed.


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> That's great news, I hope Rosie will fight with you  It is great that you caught it so early so has a much better chance because of that
> 
> An NO this is not your fault, this is something that couldn't have been avoided (well you couldn't have avoided it), this will all be down to her breeding but if she fights this is something that can be managed.


Im really pleased that i got to bring her home! I just think what are the chances of the medicine actually doing anything? Will surgery still be suggested after a few weeks of trying?

Im pleased you've said it wasn't my fault,i was quite worried and had visions of them all going down hill because of something i wasn't doing right. should i do anything different for Rosie from now on? She had some of her favourite oat hay and a barley ring for tea which she chomped into and gobbled up which was nice to see.can she just be treated as normal?


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## Guest

zowie said:


> Im really pleased that i got to bring her home! I just think what are the chances of the medicine actually doing anything? Will surgery still be suggested after a few weeks of trying?
> 
> Im pleased you've said it wasn't my fault,i was quite worried and had visions of them all going down hill because of something i wasn't doing right. should i do anything different for Rosie from now on? She had some of her favourite oat hay and a barley ring for tea which she chomped into and gobbled up which was nice to see.can she just be treated as normal?


I think it is best to see if the depocillin starts to take effect, everything depends on how she responds to the meds.

Just make sure you don't make any sudden movements around her, and make sure there is nothing she can hurt herself on, apart from that you can treat her normally  How is she finding eating at the moment? Is she still coping with hay?


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## hazyreality

I'm glad you had OK news Zowie and that you have a chance to try something for her 
Thankyou so much for your kind texts yesterday, they were needed I assure you.

*Heidi*


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> I think it is best to see if the depocillin starts to take effect, everything depends on how she responds to the meds.
> 
> Just make sure you don't make any sudden movements around her, and make sure there is nothing she can hurt herself on, apart from that you can treat her normally  How is she finding eating at the moment? Is she still coping with hay?


If its going to start working,how long does it take to kick in?? Im off to give her her meds in a bit.
She seems fine in herself,i went out to clean the shed earlier and she was hopping about like nothings happened,she's sat on her own quite a bit but she does that anyway. She's tucking into her food like normal. She was munching on hay when i went to pick her up yesterday and i put a pile of hay infront of her last night and she started eating it straight away. Im assuming shes pooing fine as iv seen her in the litter tray a few times today. She's not really giving me anything to worry about,touch wood!!



hazyreality said:


> I'm glad you had OK news Zowie and that you have a chance to try something for her
> Thankyou so much for your kind texts yesterday, they were needed I assure you.
> 
> *Heidi*


Thankyou,fingers crossed this works for her,if not il think again!!

Awww,you dont have to say thankyou. Im always at the end of the phone or a text if you want to talk.  X


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## Guest

zowie said:


> If its going to start working,how long does it take to kick in?? Im off to give her her meds in a bit.
> She seems fine in herself,i went out to clean the shed earlier and she was hopping about like nothings happened,she's sat on her own quite a bit but she does that anyway. She's tucking into her food like normal. She was munching on hay when i went to pick her up yesterday and i put a pile of hay infront of her last night and she started eating it straight away. Im assuming shes pooing fine as iv seen her in the litter tray a few times today. She's not really giving me anything to worry about,touch wood!!
> 
> Thankyou,fingers crossed this works for her,if not il think again!!
> 
> Awww,you dont have to say thankyou. Im always at the end of the phone or a text if you want to talk.  X


I would expect to see some change within a week if it is going to work -fingers crossed-

She does sound like she is happy to plod on and most certainly isn't ready to give up


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## zowie

B3rnie said:


> I would expect to see some change within a week if it is going to work -fingers crossed-
> 
> She does sound like she is happy to plod on and most certainly isn't ready to give up


She certainly didn't seem ready to give up yesterday or today. i went out and gave her her meds which she was good for. she had the injection fine and swallowed the metacam. i checked her over,the white bit of her eye seems a bit blood shot,could that just be from being poked about with yesterday? And i checked her chin for dribble but there wasn't any,her chin didn't even feel damp,could she have just got stressed in the car which caused her to dribble as its quite a long journey?


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