# FELV question



## silverhorse (Nov 2, 2008)

I have a 7 month old Birman female which is kept in the house and will be mated at around 12 months. She has not yet had a FELV. but comes from felv tested parents. Should I have her injected now or later if I am to take her to stud. She has had all her other injections earlier.


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## lilbird (Oct 5, 2009)

Why are you thinking of having her vaccinated for FELV?
The stud you use should be tested and you should be able to see his certificate.
Your girl will need to have the blood test prior 24 hrs prior to mating that shows she is FLV/FIV clear.
If she doesn't go out or mix with outside cats you probably don't need to get her vaccinated - unless you want to of course.


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## silverhorse (Nov 2, 2008)

thanks fot that info I had not thought about the blood test before mating.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Why not just get her spayed and enjoy her for who she is? Seems a shame to put her life and health at risk for no reason. And there is no reason to breed a family pet.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

lorilu said:


> Why not just get her spayed and enjoy her for who she is? Seems a shame to put her life and health at risk for no reason. And there is no reason to breed a family pet.


Because she is a breeding queen, registered on the right register and being mated responsibly and for good reason - yes she is a family pet too.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

spid said:


> Because she is a breeding queen, registered on the right register and being mated responsibly and for good reason - yes she is a family pet too.


Ah...I see. Well, my opinion has not changed.


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## silverhorse (Nov 2, 2008)

lorilu said:


> Why not just get her spayed and enjoy her for who she is? Seems a shame to put her life and health at risk for no reason. And there is no reason to breed a family pet.


We bought her as a breeding queen on the register and we have bred persians before many years ago so she was not bought just as a family pet but she lives in the house with another cat and we love her very much.


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## bluechip (Dec 26, 2008)

lilbird said:


> Why are you thinking of having her vaccinated for FELV?
> The stud you use should be tested and you should be able to see his certificate.
> Your girl will need to have the blood test prior 24 hrs prior to mating that shows she is FLV/FIV clear.
> If she doesn't go out or mix with outside cats you probably don't need to get her vaccinated - unless you want to of course.


if you are taking her to stud then you will have to keep up with injection, as all stud owners will ask for proof.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

FeLV is not a required vaccination for showing so why would a stud owner insist on it, when all visiting queens are tested and, the responsible vast majority, kept indoors without access to outgoing cats?

I do not vaccinate for FeLV 1. because its not necessary, and 2. because of all the issues I have read about it. The queens I have bought in that have been vaccinated for FeLV as kittens, I do not keep up that vaccine and I have never had that questioned at stud or a show.


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## silverhorse (Nov 2, 2008)

Thanks Saikou for that I agree that Felv has issues and that is why I am way of giving the injection.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

The vaccine has its place, but with the potential problems it carries, I like you don't think its worth the risk if its not necessary.

I was persuaded to have my first queen and a couple of show cats vaccinated for it as the vet told me there was a slight risk of them contracting the disease from showing and going to stud  I discussed side affects and allergic reactions as one of the show cats had an older sister who had reacted to a vaccine and ended up with an open sore on the back of her neck that took 6 months to heal and when it finally did, left a huge bald spot. I mentioned this to the vet who assured me that those sorts of reactions were incredibly rare and if they did occur they would deal with it. Well when all 3 came up with lumps on the back of their neck after vaccination I phoned them in panic only to be told it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the vaccine and to go away!!! :nonod: Last time I went to that vet. The lumps did eventually disappear, but it was a worrying 2 weeks. I always do my own research now.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I use it routinely and have done for more than a decade.

Liz


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I've had all of my cats and kittens vaccinated for FeLV since 1993 - when the first vaccine became available in the UK. Prior to that I lost 2 Burmese to FeLV and after that experience, I was determined it would never happen again. I've never seen any "issues" with the vaccine (and have used several different ones over the years) other than a very occasional lump at the injection site (can happen with any vaccine) and very occasional lethargy for upto 48 hrs (again, can happen with any vaccine)

I would never wish FeLV on any cat owner, it is horrendous, so I wouldn't dream of letting any of my kittens go unprotected. 

FeLV blood testing is all well and good but it's not foolproof - I prefer the extra safety offered by vaccination. I would think stud owners would be unwise not to have their boys vaccinated, too.

I would not let anyone put you off vaccinating, the chance of side effects is no more than with any other vaccine.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

For every breeder thats had no issue with that vaccine theres a breeder that has and will no longer use it. If your cat is never likely to come into contact with FeLV and lives in a controlled environment - there is no point in having the vaccine done!!! If on the other hand your cat is likely to be in contact with the virus then it does have a place.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> I've had all of my cats and kittens vaccinated for FeLV since 1993 - when the first vaccine became available in the UK. Prior to that I lost 2 Burmese to FeLV and after that experience, I was determined it would never happen again. I've never seen any "issues" with the vaccine (and have used several different ones over the years) other than a very occasional lump at the injection site (can happen with any vaccine) and very occasional lethargy for upto 48 hrs (again, can happen with any vaccine)


Same here - I think I first used the Leukogen vaccine in 1992



> FeLV blood testing is all well and good but it's not foolproof - I prefer the extra safety offered by vaccination. I would think stud owners would be unwise not to have their boys vaccinated, too.


Mine certainly are! I think people don't realise that all the vet blood test tells you is that there is a 90% chance the cat did not have FeLV or FIV several weeks ago!

Liz


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

But indoor cats can and do escape......
Mine are all indoors but there's no way I'd want them to be unvaccinated for FeLV. In fact many experts strongly recommend vaccinating kittens whether indoor or not. Cats do tend to build up immunity to FeLV once over the age of a year, so even vaccinating kittens and then giving the first annual booster would be very good practice.



Saikou said:


> For every breeder thats had no issue with that vaccine theres a breeder that has and will no longer use it. If your cat is never likely to come into contact with FeLV and lives in a controlled environment - there is no point in having the vaccine done!!! If on the other hand your cat is likely to be in contact with the virus then it does have a place.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Seeing as it is the owner that has to bear the consequences of any problems it is up to them as to whether they choose to vaccinate their cats for x, y or z or not. I would not tell someone not to vaccinate or to definitely vaccinate the decision is theirs and theirs alone!! You want to vaccinate your cats and kittens for FeLV thats fine - *your *choice, I choose not to - *my *choice.

The OPs question was around going to stud. Answer FeLV is not generally required for a visit to stud (unless the stud owner has specific requirements, I have seen one stud owner stipulate FeLV was required, strangely that person now is a staunch advocate against the vaccine because of all the problems they had with it) same way as it is not required to show.

At the end of the day, no vaccine is 100% effective!! and from what I have read the disease is spread through prolonged contact, not a chance meeting with a cat on a one off breakout.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Saikou said:


> The vaccine has its place, but with the potential problems it carries, I like you don't think its worth the risk if its not necessary.
> 
> I was persuaded to have my first queen and a couple of show cats vaccinated for it as the vet told me there was a slight risk of them contracting the disease from showing and going to stud  I discussed side affects and allergic reactions as one of the show cats had an older sister who had reacted to a vaccine and ended up with an open sore on the back of her neck that took 6 months to heal and when it finally did, left a huge bald spot. I mentioned this to the vet who assured me that those sorts of reactions were incredibly rare and if they did occur they would deal with it. Well when all 3 came up with lumps on the back of their neck after vaccination I phoned them in panic only to be told it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the vaccine and to go away!!! :nonod: Last time I went to that vet. The lumps did eventually disappear, but it was a worrying 2 weeks. I always do my own research now.


I've had the same effect in the past on one of my cats caused by a cack handed vet injecting into the skin instead of underneath it. The contents of the syringe were just abs, nothing exotic, but infiltrating the skin caused a huge ulcer and as you describe, a large bald patch when it eventually healed. I think that can be caused by any bungling attempt at a jab, no matter what it contains


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

The reaction could well have been down to incompetance as well, but I was also told by another vet that reactions like that are familial, so I am glad that I didn't persue it.

I hope you got some compensation for that botch job, its appalling really, to mess up something as routine and simple as an antib jab.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

My girls came with felv done although I have not had it done with my newest girl or do I plan to do with my kittens. It generally is only advised in cats that go out that are coming into contact with strange cats or matings. I tell kitten owners not to bother if the kitten is only living indoors with other indoor cats otherwise get it done alittle later so as not to overload the kittens with too many things at once.
If I was open stud then I think I would insist on it. Blood test aswell. You can never be to careful and I am not sure if the blood test is 100% accurate just as vaccine so I would protect my boy by making sure it was done.
As for lumps it is not unusual to get a small reaction in the skin for a few days this is nothing to worry about generally but some cats can react to injections in general or the adjuvant in some vaccines. 
Id love to know how a vet managed to do an intradermal inj by mistake difficult enough doing it in rabbits when giving myxo jab and thats when your really trying.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

silverhorse said:


> Thanks Saikou for that I agree that Felv has issues and that is why I am way of giving the injection.


Have you checked with the stud owner about vaccination and blood tests for felv, if your not too bothered about your girl having it they may well be concerned about risks to their stud, but I am sure you have asked already


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Why would a queen not being vaccinated for FeLV pose a risk to the stud?


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Why would a queen not being vaccinated for FeLV pose a risk to the stud?


Because it can be transmitted via matings as far as I am aware, but if she is negative then it would probably be ok but it depends when she was tested and where the cat has been since the test etc. It would really be down to the owner of the stud cat wheter they would accept an unvaccinated queen I suppose.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

silverhorse said:


> We bought her as a breeding queen on the register and we have bred persians before many years ago so she was not bought just as a family pet but she lives in the house with another cat and we love her very much.


Thats sad :crying: :crying: she should be a pet first and foremost.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

The question was whether the queen was vaccinated or not, NOT if they were actually infected with the disease.

A queen who is simply not vaccinated for FeLV poses NO risk to any other cat!!!

None of the stud owners I know insist on an FeLV vaccination for visiting queens.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> The question was whether the queen was vaccinated or not, NOT if they were actually infected with the disease.
> 
> A queen who is simply not vaccinated for FeLV poses NO risk to any other cat!!!
> 
> None of the stud owners I know insist on an FeLV vaccination for visiting queens.


Yes and if she is not vaccinated then what protection does she have or how do they know she has not come into contact with the disease. I dont see much point in a house cat as a pet having it but If a girl is being taken out to stud then I would want to protect them just incase and if I where open stud I would also want to protect my boy. As far as I am aware most breeding cats I know have it as a matter of precaution unless you operate a completely closed cattery.
I have to say I find the manner in which you reply to posts from people who disagree with you very rude :nonod: that is something I have noticed with some of your replies on here, people can disagree with you without you needing to respond in that way. NO one person is right on everything


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Seeing as it is the owner that has to bear the consequences of any problems it is up to them as to whether they choose to vaccinate their cats for x, y or z or not. I would not tell someone not to vaccinate or to definitely vaccinate the decision is theirs and theirs alone!! You want to vaccinate your cats and kittens for FeLV thats fine - *your *choice, I choose not to - *my *choice.
> 
> The OPs question was around going to stud. Answer FeLV is not generally required for a visit to stud (unless the stud owner has specific requirements, I have seen one stud owner stipulate FeLV was required, strangely that person now is a staunch advocate against the vaccine because of all the problems they had with it) same way as it is not required to show.
> 
> At the end of the day, no vaccine is 100% effective!! and from what I have read the disease is spread through prolonged contact, not a chance meeting with a cat on a one off breakout.


It is spread via close contact with bodily fluids so you dont get much closer than a mating. If the op is considering it then surely it makes sense to do it before mating. Cat shows dont pose a risk because you do not get the same close contact between cats but going to a strange stud is different. If he is open stud then there will be strange cats visiting regularly, how often are they having him tested after every mating? are they seeing recent proof of the queens negative status do they know where the queen has been previously etc or do they only accept certain cats to stud whos owners they know and trust?
No vacc is 100% just as no blood test is either you can get false negative results and vice versa. I would want to protect my girl if going to open stud if nothing else.
For the record I have never seen any major vaccine reactions in cats or any injection site sarcomas etc but I have seen plenty of cats with FELV so it is much more common in certain populations, it was quoted as being the second biggest killer of cats after rta's? Now how true that is I dont know but why take the risk.
If she is going to open stud then she is technically not in a controlled environment you could say. Whereas if she had her own boy and was closed stud then I would say not much point then as that is in a contolled breeding environment.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Seeing as you are suddenly such an expert on the subject I am surprised that you incorrectly claimed that an unvaccinated queen would put the stud at risk, which the point I responded to.

You may well mis-interpreted me as coming across as being "rude" but then that is coming from someone who has been accused of being rude and aggressive by a number of different people on a number of different threads on a number of different topics and this isn't the first time you have had your facts wrong, so I guess as you say


> NO one person is right on everything


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

I dont state I am an expert on anything unlike other know it alls and yes I do think it puts the stud at risk having strange queens coming in, why else do so many people stay closed stud?
I may have responded abruptly in the past to certain people but I am not the only one and I only responded in a manner similar to how I was responded to. But I have noticed you like to state your opinion as fact on a regular basis! what because you have done your own research.?  we can all claim to do own own research and still never be right as there are always two sides to everything, ie vaccination debate some agree with it others dont, thats life, but why dont you leave it at that instead on instigating an argument?

If the stud owners knows the girl and how she is kept then they may feel there is little risk but if you are open stud and accept anything even with a blood test you are still putting the stud at risk with every mating! and thats all I will say on the matter!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> if you are open stud and accept anything even with a blood test you are still putting the stud at risk with every mating!


That's why my boys are vaccinated against FeLV. In the (frankly unlikely) event of anyone wanting to use them, I am confident that they are safe. The risk can be brought down to almost zero if you only do controlled matings anyway.

Liz


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

lizward said:


> That's why my boys are vaccinated against FeLV. In the (frankly unlikely) event of anyone wanting to use them, I am confident that they are safe. The risk can be brought down to almost zero if you only do controlled matings anyway.
> 
> Liz


 Well yes if he is vaccinated then he should be clear from contracting it, just out if interest if you are open stud and accept outside girls would you ask for it or leave it upto them?
When you say controlled matings what exactly do you mean.?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I would leave it up to them.

Controlled matings - you just put the girl in with the boy for mating then take her out again afterwards.

Liz


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

lizward said:


> I would leave it up to them.
> 
> Controlled matings - you just put the girl in with the boy for mating then take her out again afterwards.
> 
> Liz


oh I see so a supervised mating! so you say the risk is almost zero by doing this, do you mean of contracting felv? can I ask why it is less of a risk than if you left the girl in for a few hours? do they not still catch it via bodily fluids transfered from mating?
If none of the cats are vaccinated/tested neg ofcourse.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Seeing as you are suddenly such an expert on the subject I am surprised that you incorrectly claimed that an unvaccinated queen would put the stud at risk, which the point I responded to.
> 
> You may well mis-interpreted me as coming across as being "rude" but then that is coming from someone who has been accused of being rude and aggressive by a number of different people on a number of different threads on a number of different topics and this isn't the first time you have had your facts wrong, so I guess as you say


I am sorry but you say my facts are wrong so you must also be stating that a vets facts are wrong also then? I have it on good authority from a vet I work with who is also a feline specialist with an interest in reproduction who also advises the same, vaccinate and blood test before every mating *especially * before going to outside stud to prevent or lower the risks to both cats, so not being vaccinated does pose a risk to both cats. As I said earlier it is transmitted through bodily fluids and it does not matter how long the cats are in contact with each other as the mating in itself is enough to spread the virus. Prolonged contact with an infected cat is more likely to result in infection through prolonged exposure to the virus but it can be transmitted from chance meetings also.
I am sorry but I am more likely to go with my own information from my training and that of the vets I work with than that of another breeder, sorry. If other people choose to do things differently that is entirely up to them but my information is not incorrect.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I am getting bored with this and I was under the impression you were no longer going to respond to my posts   a short lived joy. All you are repeating is hear say, and using your profession to add weight to your ever changing arguement.

For the record..AGAIN... I questioned your statement that a queen unvaccinated for FeLV posed a risk to a stud.



Clare Ferris said:


> Have you checked with the stud owner about vaccination and blood tests for felv, if your not too bothered about your girl having it they may well be *concerned about risks to their stud*


I am sure you are aware with all your training (brought into the equation by you!!! before you jump down my throat for that) -simply being unvaccinated for a disease does not make that cat definite carrier for that disease - so poses NO RISK to any other cat.

You did not qualify whether that cat was carrying the disease - because yes infected with the disease, vaccinated or not that cat would pose a risk to another unvaccinated cat - NO ONE is disputing that. Yes an unvaccinated queen going to an infected stud YES would be at risk from the disease AGAIN no one is disputing that fact. But really how many people have FeLV infected studs at open stud  Maybe its a problem in siberians in which you have all your experience, but not in the breeds I work with.

Heresay from so called experts, vets you work with, training or whatever - the statement that simply being unvaccinated for an illness makes that cat a risk to another cat INCORRECT and gave the OP the wrong information in making her decision as to whether to vaccinate for FeLV or not


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> oh I see so a supervised mating! so you say the risk is almost zero by doing this, do you mean of contracting felv? can I ask why it is less of a risk than if you left the girl in for a few hours? do they not still catch it via bodily fluids transfered from mating?
> If none of the cats are vaccinated/tested neg ofcourse.


Well I always thought it was more likely to be caught from saliva etc. I am open to being informed on the issue though (and in fact I want to be, if I am wrong!)


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> I am getting bored with this and I was under the impression you were no longer going to respond to my posts   a short lived joy. All you are repeating is hear say, and using your profession to add weight to your ever changing arguement.
> 
> For the record..AGAIN... I questioned your statement that a queen unvaccinated for FeLV posed a risk to a stud.
> 
> ...


well your not the only one getting bored here, being unvaccinated means having no protection for that particular disease does it not? If you are going to imply that just because an animal is not vaccinated they dont pose a risk then I cannot agree with that. They are a potential risk for transmission of a disease should they come into contact with it, why else are certain diseases rife in unvaccinated populations? My argument is not ever changing we are still talking about the same subject of which I am once again trying to explain myself, you are merely twisting it round to make it sound unfounded.

I never said an unvaccinated cat would automatically be a carrier but vaccines are there for a reason to provide protection so if a cat is not vaccinated what protection does it have? Cats can be infected in a number of ways even in utero before they are born so just because a cat does not roam and mix with infected cats does not guarantee anything. It is not a problem in my breed as far as I am aware and the reason it is less common in pedigree cats than moggies is because of vaccination, testing and the fact generally they dont roam so the chances are reduced but to keep things this way I believe we should carry on vaccinating and testing all breeding cats. The blood test is not a 100%. If you want to be picky about my statement because I did not explain fully at the time then thats upto you but I am trying to explain what I meant which is obviously falling on deaf ears. Vaccination = protection and that is all there is too it. If she does not vaccinate then she has to be aware that her cat has no protection and if she chooses studs carefully then she may be fine but I personnally and other breeders I know would be very wary of doing this. and taking the chance.

I find it laughable that you are now implying my statements are based on hear say from *so called experts!* do you really have that little respect for the training vets have? What makes you so knowledgable on the subject if you dont mind me asking ? the internet an unvaccinated animal does pose risks to other animals as it is more likely to pick up or be carrying a disease as it has no protection. Why else do we vaccinate, in the hope that if a cat who is vaccinated comes into contact with a disease it will have the necessary antibodies to fight it off so it does not get sick. You clearly have different thoughts which I honestly cannot get my head round. I dont agree with what you are saying in the slightless, but I must say you are very convincing to people who know no better. I replied once again because I wont have you implying my information is wrong just because you dont agree with it. I feel you are giving the wrong impression here for whatever reason. You dont vaccinate so therefore you dont see the need for others too which imo Is wrong. I can see I am clearly wasting my time with you


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

As I understand it, FeLV is actually quite difficult to acquire because it requires prolonged contact between an infected cat and an uninfected cat. It is spread mainly via shared food / water bowls, so saliva is indeed a major factor in transmission. This is why controlled matings are good breeding practice - if you do not permit any sharing of food/water bowls, the chance of transmission is virtually zero.
Additionally, cats do acquire a good natural immunity to FeLV once their immune system is fully developed after a year or so of age.
A very well known and well respected feline specialist vet, Dr Susan Little, has said that FeLV is a disease of friends whereas FIV is a disease of enemies (because it is only spread by bites)



lizward said:


> Well I always thought it was more likely to be caught from saliva etc. I am open to being informed on the issue though (and in fact I want to be, if I am wrong!)


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

lizward said:


> Well I always thought it was more likely to be caught from saliva etc. I am open to being informed on the issue though (and in fact I want to be, if I am wrong!)


You are not entirely wrong in that statement as that is one of the main transmission routes. Well I can give you my understanding on disease transmission if you like,. its nice to know someone is willing to listen to what I am trying to explain on this thread. Just for the record I am no expert btw.lol

It is transmitted through mainly blood and saliva contact but also other bodily fluids so that would include matings. Commonly prolonged contact with infected cats via sharing of food and water bowls, litter trays etc also. So you are right in a way, but it is classed as a sexually transmitted disease also just like FIV is. Although fiv is more from saliva so the biting that occurs through matings so I have heard. I had a quick scan on the internet at some reliable vet websites and all of them say *transmission through blood, saliva and matings*, one rescue site did say it was not the act of mating but the biting that occurs with matings that caused infection but I dont know how true that is?

There is alot of misleading info on the net though and not much mention of transmission via matings on some sites which might be why you where not aware of it. One of the control measures stated was neutering as this reduces spread from matings with infected cats so it must play an important part. Cats can be infected from mum when nursing it seems, I did say also earlier in utero but I think most of these infected kittens die so I dont think that would be a route of transmission realistically. So it seems a cat that has never been outside or incontact with strange or infected cats can still be a carrier if infected from feeding from a mother incubating the disease it seems. So you could buy a kitten from a cattery apparently unaffected but unless the cattery tests regularly then theres no guarantees.

It is recommended to test all cats even if negative every *6-12 months *to attain negative status in a cattery. Which I do before every mating, which I will carry on with year after year as they can be negative on one result then postive on the next due to the incubation period of the virus. New cats entering a cattery it is recommended two tests 1-3 months apart with both being negative before introduction to the rest of the cattery. Also vaccinate but only if negative otherwise it wont make any difference to the cat. If you are closed cattery and you test regularly and you have had atleast two negative results for each cat then you could say there is not much point in vaccination if you isolate all news cats correctly before introducing to the rest as it is a controlled stable environment similar to that of a negative indoor only cat I suppose. We dont tell owners with indoor cats to vaccinate as the risk is minimal. Since close contact with infected cats is needed this wont be happening in this situation. However we do have owners wanting to still vaccinate anyway.

Catteries accepting new cats i.e open studs is a different matter I think and the reason nearly all breeders certainly in my breed but also others I know are closed stud or one of the reasons anyway. Hence why I plan on getting my own boy as I am finding it difficult to get matings for my girls. These types of catteries are taking more of a risk by having cats come in not just in relation to felv but other viruses and bugs in general.

If it was me who was the stud owner at open stud I would only accept vaccinated girls who had ideally two negative blood tests who where not incontact with any free roaming cats, unvaccinted ones or untested cats etc. But even then there are other concerns and I am not sure honestly wheter it is worth the risk as catteries are ideal environments for spread of disease, it only takes one cat and before you know it you have an outbreak. coronavirus is also a concern if you have a low titre or neg cattery as introducing strange cats with higher readings could pose a threat. My cats all have low/neg readings for this so I would not want these to then be increased all because one cat with a higher reading was allowed in. Now I know coronavirus is harmless in its unmutated form (mutated form is fip as I am sure you are aware) but we still dont entirely know why it mutates in certain individuals. Controlled matings would help in this situation as you are not allowing the visiting cat to use the same tray as your boy so reducing the risks there.

I dont want to tell you or others how to run your breeding programs but I do feel it is a potential risk from matings with strange cats even if they have one negative blood test or even vaccination in a non tested cat for that matter. You cannot really isolate a visiting queen for the time required before you put them to the stud so you have no way of knowing what they may be incubating so if you are going to be open stud then it is a risk you will have to be aware of. As you may know I am new to breeding pedigree cats but I do have a fair knowledge of disease prevention and so its is best to try and get reliable information on disease so you are aware of everything. Your vet should be a good person to ask or if you look on the internet just be aware that it is an open forum for anyone to post on with alot of incorrect and misleading information but also some very helpful information. It can be difficult to know what to believe to be honest.lol So be careful what you read and believe is all I can say really. Hope that helps


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Clare Ferris said:


> I find it laughable that you are now implying my statements are based on hear say from *so called experts!* do you really have that little respect for the training vets have?


Quite, you repeating what a third party may or may not have said is hearsay!



Clare Ferris said:


> You dont vaccinate so therefore you dont see the need for others too which imo Is wrong. I can see I am clearly wasting my time with you


Once again not true - if you bother re read what I have said. FeLV vaccination is not a prerequisite for visiting 99% of studs and 100% of shows.

An indoor cat maintained in a controlled environment with no access to outgoing cats, from tested parents, unvaccinated for FeLV, blood tested FeLV negative prior to stud visit poses NO RISK to any other cat. On the other hand, a vaccinated cat, supposedly safe from contracting the disease given access to all because of that fact, where the vaccine has not been 100% effective, recently infected therefore comes up with a negative blood test result - definitely a risk to other cats !!!

Yes and please do refrain from wasting anymore time with me


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

kozykatz said:


> As I understand it, FeLV is actually quite difficult to acquire because it requires prolonged contact between an infected cat and an uninfected cat. It is spread mainly via shared food / water bowls, so saliva is indeed a major factor in transmission. This is why controlled matings are good breeding practice - if you do not permit any sharing of food/water bowls, the chance of transmission is virtually zero.
> Additionally, cats do acquire a good natural immunity to FeLV once their immune system is fully developed after a year or so of age.
> A very well known and well respected feline specialist vet, Dr Susan Little, has said that FeLV is a disease of friends whereas FIV is a disease of enemies (because it is only spread by bites)


I would not say that is always the case there are exceptions. If you take the example of feral cats they only generally come into contact with a mate during the actual mating and dont share food and water bowls or have prolonged contact with each other. They do what is needed and move on. Yet these cats can commonly be infected. So I would imagine the main route here is from the mating. But you are right also with the prolonged contact issue so it is good practice I guess to do controlled matings as you are taking away one of the main transmission routes. But we must be aware that the actual mating spreads sexually transmitted disease also which includes felv. Another breeder once said to me she is closed stud because of the risks re the above. Maybe the oral route is considered a major source of infection because most cats are neutered so maybe that is not a major cause in the general cat population???


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## silverhorse (Nov 2, 2008)

Thank you all for your replies. It seems to be quite a subject but I have decided not to have my kitten injected and wait to see if the stud owner requires a blood test 24 hours prior to mating.


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## Kalipha (Jul 15, 2009)

Clare Ferris said:


> I would not say that is always the case there are exceptions. If you take the example of feral cats they only generally come into contact with a mate during the actual mating and dont share food and water bowls or have prolonged contact with each other. They do what is needed and move on. Yet these cats can commonly be infected. So I would imagine the main route here is from the mating.


Personally I would guess it was from fighting, not mating. There is a lot of that in feral populations too, and bites are generally considered the most common way to be infected with FeLV.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Kalipha said:


> Personally I would guess it was from fighting, not mating. There is a lot of that in feral populations too, and bites are generally considered the most common way to be infected with FeLV.


Well true also but I do believe mating is a route of infection also and so do the vets I work with so I am inclined to go with them who have the training tbh No disrespect


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## gerisdolly (May 20, 2009)

I would get it done sooner rather than later then she has time to get the jag through her system and is feeling on top form when she is ready to be mated


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