# Mystery rabbit illness... Has anyone experienced this??



## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Hi,

My female bunny Maple is ill!  I'm not new to rabbits but this has me stumped. I've read everything I can but can't find any clues. I need help! My vet also can't figure it out. 
She isn't compacted, she hasn't got a blockage, no signs of bloat or stasis and her teeth are fine. Her bum is clean and she is pooping but they're very small. Hers are usually perfect... Odd way to describe poop but I know you bunny owners know what I mean  
She isn't eating properly and I know how dangerous that is for rabbits. She hasn't stopped eating but she usually devours her pellets and is constantly nibbling hay. On a normal day I will refill her hay rack 7 or 8 times. 
She had her breakfast on Thursday morning with her usual enthusiasm and I filled her rack when I left for work. It's usually empty by the time I come home 4 hours later but she hadn't touched it so I knew something was up. When it came to dinner time she didn't touch it. She's on Science Selective rabbit food. I haven't changed her food and there's no chance of her eating something she shouldn't have. She's a house bunny and is never free range when I'm not there. 
So on Friday I had her to the vet and and he gave her an injection to kick start her gut. She started to eat a bit more but still not normally so I took her back this morning for a second injection. 
I don't know her exact age as she is a rescue bunny but I think she's 2-3. Possibly 4. She was taken from a very over crowded situation. That's all the detail they could give me. I'm unsure if she's been used for breeding. She's now spayed. 
She has had a tiny tiny bit of hay, a handful of Kale, a couple of her pellets and some strawberry leaf and Hazel leaf today. She's not eating enough hay, not as much as she used to. Her unusual poop is worrying me a lot. I can't work out what is going on!!! 
She lives on her own, well I have two bunnies so she has a pal but they don't live together. Maple is a very unusual bun who likes the company of other rabbits as long as they're not living with her. I originally got her as a friend for my boy Ivor after we lost our lovely girl Bi-bi but after months and months and months of trying to bond them she just wouldn't accept living with Ivor. As he's 6 I couldn't risk injury to him and increased stress. The rescue offered to take her back but I loved her as soon as she was in my house so I couldn't hand her back. Ivor is doing well by himself as he lives in our living room with us so we decided to leave him as he was and not risk another failed bonding. 

I think I've given all the info I can, I hope someone has an idea of why she is not eating. I'd really appreciate some help. 

Thanks for reading my essay


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Unfortunately I don't know what would be the problem.
I assume vet listen to her chest to make sure she doesn't have any problems there?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Did the vet give her any painkiller? Rabbits will not eat if they are in pain.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Hi there. It sounds like you are doing all you can.

How did the vet say her tum felt? Full? Empty? "Doughy"?

Is she in moult?

Is she drinking normally, and did the vet give her any sub cu fluids? (giving extra fluid can help "flood" the gut with fluid, if things have ground to a near halt).

Is she losing weight? Start monitoring, and keep a record, if you can)

My first thought would be teeth. If bun has spurs on the back teeth, they would stop her eating properly. Hopefully the vet has looked in her mouth for spurs, but even so, they can't see the teeth right at the back, until they are anaesthetised.

If teeth were OK, my second thought would be a tooth abscess (invisible, but very painful, and enough to stop/slow a rabbit eating). Only an Xray would show this, unless the face were obviously swollen, but once diagnosed, they are treatable - never believe a vet that says otherwise.

Did the vet recommend painkillers? (usually Metacam).

If your bun is given painkillers, and then its eating/poo improves, it shows that bun was in pain. This might get the digestive system going again, but the underlying cause would still need to be investigated.

Here, we would give Metacam straightaway, and tempt with food to try and get bun eating again. Have you tried fresh grass? bramble leaves (prickly bits trimmed off)? Also basil, parsley and the greentops from carrots, a little bit of banana, apple or pear - just to tempt.

you could also offer SS pellets on a plate, softened with cooled boiled water. One of our buns with a tooth abscess could eat only this, even with Metacam, until the antibiotics did their job. 

It might be worth going to another rabbit savvy vet for a second opinion. Some vets know surprisingly little about rabbits.

Hopefully the others will come up with some more suggestions.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the answers  Funky, he didn't actually. Thank you for the suggestion. That will be brought up on monday when I will definitely be taking her in again. I've lost two rats and a bunny this year and just when I think 2013 can't get any worse... It does!! I also nearly lost my Dad this year. I can't take any more loss and I can't lose my Maple. I lost my first rat and bunny within weeks of each other and I just lost a very dear rat who I was very close to last week. Still really upset about her. I'll do anything to not lose anyone else. 
Merlin's Mum, I also wasn't given any painkiller as she's not doing any teeth grinding or anything but I will also be insisting on those on Monday cz we all now how buns cover stuff up. Thanks. 
Summersky, you've given me other things to think about  that's what I was hoping to get from this. I think my vets were hoping the injections would help straight away. I don't believe they have. She is moulting at the moment. She did get fluids yes. She is drinking normally. As she's in her own enclosure we can moniter her fluid intake easily. All is normal there. I'm definitley bringing up the possibility of an abscess or some unseen tooth problem. They have had a good look at her teeth and say she looks all fine. I would like them to take her in and have a proper proper look under anaesthetic. I will soften her food, she does seem to be preferring softer stuff... But did eat one of her carrot biscuits. My vet said her stomach felt normal. Nothing suspicious. My Bi-bi had endless tooth problems. She was regularly filed, we got her through Stasis many times and she had bloat once so I know what to look for and feel for and I'm not finding anything that reminds me of what I felt in her. I am thinking tooth problems personally. Unfortunately I have no choice of vets where I am. The nearest ones are the same company so all the same vets. We have specialist animal hospitals an hour a way in each direction but a referral from my vet has to be given to go to either of those unless you live in the local area.
All you've said is very useful, I will be bringing it all up on Monday. Antibiotics and pain killer are a definite. Feel I should have insisted on them on Friday! Feel like a bad mum! I was also hoping the injections would work :/


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Did you have blood screens done?


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

No, no bloods done yet. Also something that will be done next week. I had all that done for Bi-bi. She had everything tested. My vet said it's not something they ever do for Rabbits because most people aren't willing to pay for them. After viewing my invoice they are very expensive. All my Rabbits are insured so that's not an issue for me. I will have absolutely every test possible done asap. 
Thanks Lopside  Great name.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

I think head X-ray for sure to check teeth roots are ok, plus he can have a better look at teeth whilst sedated. Maybe a stomach X-ray? And certainly a blood screen. It will give an indication of infection etc. 
like you say, there are times when insurance is a blessing! I forked out nearly £1000 on one of my rabbits mystery illnesses.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Some of these things suggested I didn't even think of so I'm really glad I came on here to ask. I think when you're the owner panic clouds everything and it's hard to think of everything you should be doing. Did you get to the bottom of the mystery illness after spending £1000? Bet you were quite happy to pay it though if it meant your bun would be ok?  we have spent an absolute fortune on our pets over the years. My rescue rats have cost a lot with tumour removals and trying to find out what is wrong with them. Some we've saved and some we've lost but I certainly don't regret paying the money for those we lost. They were more than worth it. One of our dogs would have cost us over £10,000 had we not had him insured. Again, I would have paid it if he wasn't insured. Totally worth it to see him being able to walk. 

Maple will be going in tomorrow again and I'll be putting her in for full x-rays, bloods and full teeth check as soon as it can be done. 
Thanks everyone! As always you've been brilliant help.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Emma P said:


> Thanks for all the answers  Funky, he didn't actually. Thank you for the suggestion. That will be brought up on monday when I will definitely be taking her in again. I've lost two rats and a bunny this year and just when I think 2013 can't get any worse... It does!! I also nearly lost my Dad this year. I can't take any more loss and I can't lose my Maple. I lost my first rat and bunny within weeks of each other and I just lost a very dear rat who I was very close to last week. Still really upset about her. I'll do anything to not lose anyone else.
> Merlin's Mum, I also wasn't given any painkiller as she's not doing any teeth grinding or anything but I will also be insisting on those on Monday cz we all now how buns cover stuff up. Thanks.
> Summersky, you've given me other things to think about  that's what I was hoping to get from this. I think my vets were hoping the injections would help straight away. I don't believe they have. She is moulting at the moment. She did get fluids yes. She is drinking normally. As she's in her own enclosure we can moniter her fluid intake easily. All is normal there. I'm definitley bringing up the possibility of an abscess or some unseen tooth problem. They have had a good look at her teeth and say she looks all fine. I would like them to take her in and have a proper proper look under anaesthetic. I will soften her food, she does seem to be preferring softer stuff... But did eat one of her carrot biscuits. My vet said her stomach felt normal. Nothing suspicious. My Bi-bi had endless tooth problems. She was regularly filed, we got her through Stasis many times and she had bloat once so I know what to look for and feel for and I'm not finding anything that reminds me of what I felt in her. I am thinking tooth problems personally. Unfortunately I have no choice of vets where I am. The nearest ones are the same company so all the same vets. We have specialist animal hospitals an hour a way in each direction but a referral from my vet has to be given to go to either of those unless you live in the local area.
> All you've said is very useful, I will be bringing it all up on Monday. Antibiotics and pain killer are a definite. Feel I should have insisted on them on Friday! *Feel like a bad mum! I was also hoping the injections would work :/*


*

*

You're not a bad Mum -you are clearly doing everything you should.

And I'm so sorry to hear of your losses. It's hard when you lose one after the other.

Within our practice, we have 2 vets we trust completely with our buns. Others lack the specialist knowledge. Sounds like you have had to use your vets a lot, so least you will know which are the best.

Having insurance is great! We only have two of ours insured, and have spent thousands over the last year. We too, like others, have had a hard year, so we understand how hard it is.

If your vet can find no underlying cause, ask for a referal to an exotic specialist. I think insirance can cover this too.*Funky, am i right on this? * we always have to pay.

It's good that your vet gave fluid and gut stims. concerned there were no painkillers though. Sounds like they are not that used to treating rabbits. Times have changed a lot.

Moulting can be quite debilitating, and a bun only has to go off food for a few days for spurs to grow.

Last thought - several of our older, dental buns (all siblings) are now getting multiple mini tooth root abscesses. They can be hard to see on x rays. They are readily managed fortunately. So don't be frightened to ask for a referral if the vet says everything is OK. clearly it's not.

Final, final thought - we've found that rabbits can show things in different ways, not the classic, expected way. Eg of our dental buns, only onew or two drool. Some just act differently - not coming for food as quickly, not jumping up - subtle changes really. One coughs.

Now ours are getting older, we are also getting more cases of arthritis in joints - clearly painful, and makes them less interested. They are now on long term maintenance Metacam and are back to normal now they are no longer in pain.

If a head xray showed nothing, a spinal injury would show any spinal damage too.

Good luck tomorrow.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Little update...
She has been eating hay all morning. Stopped now but she was for a few hours. Still not wanting her pellets. She's eaten all the Brocolli and Kale I put in last night before I went to bed.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

I think her teeth need a proper check, I used to have a dental bun and one of the first signs was her change in appetitie and small poos. Her back teeth we're shocking and she used to get abscesses and root probs. 
sadly we did find out the mystery illness, but only by an exotic vet and only after my other vet had mucked around enough to ensure there was no chance of her recovering. Could kick myself for not going to exotic vet earlier but she's a 45 min drive away and it wasn't until I lost faith in my first vet that I started looking for Molly, the bunny specialist. I used to know her years ago when she was based in manchester. I have no stress going to the vet now, cos I know that she is one of the best in her field and she does her utmost to help. I trust her judgement implicitly.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Yes, it makes a world of difference, knowing that we can trust our vets with our precious pets. Too many are sadly lacking when it comes to best bunny practice.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

It certainly is horrible not having complete faith in vets! I have emailed the RWAF to see if they can tell me where is the nearest Rabbit vet to me. I've looked online but can't find a list. If someone knows where there's a list and can add a link to here that would be great


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## kathyr25 (Oct 8, 2013)

Emma P said:


> It certainly is horrible not having complete faith in vets! I have emailed the RWAF to see if they can tell me where is the nearest Rabbit vet to me. I've looked online but can't find a list. If someone knows where there's a list and can add a link to here that would be great


I found this recently
Looking for a vet? - Rabbits United Forum
Which says

"
I noticed that quite a few people have been looking for vets in their area. The Royal College of Vet. Surgeons has set up a part of their website to help people look for vets. You can specify that you're looking for someone who does small and/or exotic species, which is what rabbits are classed as.

The link is:
http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/sys...p?NodeID=89660

I hope this is helpful!"


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks for that info. You're a star. I've done the advanced search and the closest vet to me according to it is in Harrogate. Where is everyone else located who has a bunny vet near them?


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Another update...
Maple is eating her pellets and her most recent poops are bigger. I syringe fed her Recovery for herbivores earier and a squirt of Fibreplex (which I always keep in the house now)

What's everyone's thoughts on this?


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

It's good that she is pooing, but as she is dependent on you syringe feeding her (which is good by the way), I would still get her checked again. But pref with a more rabbit savvy vet if you can.

If you are talking about Harcourt-Brown, you can't go far wrong there. 

How far away are you from her?


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Definitely want to get her checked again. Yes that's the one, Harcourt-Brown. Unfortunately for me she's nearly 3 hours drive away. As far as I can see, nothing nearer!
Here's a pic of her chilling in her tent just now. She's a sweetie.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Not sure if this is of help but they have a rabbit savvy vet here:

*Firstvets*
Station Rd
Forest Hall
Newcastle upon Tyne
Tyne and Wear, NE12 8AQ
Tel: 0191 2666286


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

VERY helpful. Thanks! I'm not far from Newcastle.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Good signs of eating but vet check is necessary.
If Newcastle is not far I would take her to savvy vet -they specialise in exotics. There knowledge will be much more advance in subject than normal vet.
She is very cute by the way!
I hope all goes well and they will w able to tell you what is the problem.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Hi everyone. *Maple update* She is booked in tomorrow for a proper teeth check with a filing if needed, a stomach x-ray, a head x-ray and blood taken which will be tested for EVERY single thing possible.
She has eaten lots of hay today and ate her breakfast (eventuallly), she also had a bit of her tea. Poops still not normal. 
Been checking over her insurance papers and have filled out the claim form all ready for tomorrow... I'm guessing it's going to cost more than the £50 excess. The blood tests alone cost £250 when I had them done before. Dental things aren't usually covered with Rabbit insurance but Petplan paid out for Bi-bi's dental work. I never asked them why (for fear they'd made a mistake and stopped paying out for her) but I thought it would be because it was life threatening, as she would have died if it wasn't done. I don't think it's Maple's teeth that are the problem but I want everything tested and looked at.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

We have buns insured with PetPlan and tey have always paid for Funky dental probably for the same reason like yours-life threatening as he stopped eating!
Never asked them!
Good luck tomorrow-hopefully they will find out reason!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Good luck, sounds like you have it all planned right, do let us know how you get on


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Ah I'm glad it wasn't a mistake! 

Maple has eaten all of her tea and has eaten a lot of hay. Her most recent poops are twice the size they were this morning and as far as I can see perfectly round   I'm very happy she's getting better. Quick question, if she were your bunny would you still get everything I mentioned earlier done tomorrow even though she's getting better? Personally, I still want to so I can rule things out if this happens again. I'm not putting her through anaesthetic for nothing am I???


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

I would have her check -if you can avoid Anesthetic I would as it is high risk.
Definitely blood tests as you don't know what caused that an you don't want it to happen again.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

If she has started eating and pooping almost normally now does that pretty much mean it's not her teeth?


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Depends if you are syringe feeding her, or giving her softer food, or have modified what you are feeding her, or she is having painkillers.

If you've still got them, take some of the smaller, and the current poo pellets for the vet to see (they won't mind).

When we had a rabbit in stasis, we used a weekly pill pot to collect a few poo each day. It was very noticeable to see how the poo gradually got lighter in colour and progressively bigger. 

Then we forgot about it. Opened it a few weeks later, to find that the tiny poo looked exactly the same, but the recent bigger poo had all gone mouldy   : A good lesson in the moisture content of the problem poo being much different (even though she had had sub cu fluids).

Always read the small print, but dentals cna be covered provided it's not a known pre-existing condition.

Let us know how you get on. The vet will decide what tests will be best, as she appears to have picked up.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Because I've been sceptical about it being her teeth from the start so I don't want her being put under for no reason. A Rabbit having blood taken while awake isn't traumatic for them is it? Bi-bi was under when she had hers taken.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Emma P said:


> Because I've been sceptical about it being her teeth from the start so I don't want her being put under for no reason. A Rabbit having blood taken while awake isn't traumatic for them is it? Bi-bi was under when she had hers taken.


Depends on the vet, and how laid back your bun is.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

She didn't ever have any painkillers and she has started eating which to me means what went wrong was in the gut not her mouth. I will take some poop with me to the vet  we syringe fed her once a day for two days. She was eating herslef but I wanted to give her extra. She also had Fibreplex but nothing else. 

I'll ask the vet her opinion but I value all your opinions too!!!
Oh and Maple is VERY laid back.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Stuart had X-ray and CT scan without bein put under Anesthetic.
I lost one bunny under Anesthetic so I am very careful and allow when only necessary.
Since Kimi died few of my buns had to go under an it is traumatic to me but had to be done. If you can avoid -do so.
Stuart blood tests have been taken without any sadation.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

It certainly sounds unlikely that it was tooth related, if her eating and pooing is now back to normal.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Emma P said:


> She didn't ever have any painkillers and she has started eating which to me means what went wrong was in the gut not her mouth. I will take some poop with me to the vet  we syringe fed her once a day for two days. She was eating herslef but I wanted to give her extra. She also had Fibreplex but nothing else.
> 
> I'll ask the vet her opinion but I value all your opinions too!!!
> Oh and Maple is VERY laid back.


I'm not saying that it definitely was a tooth problem but just thought I'd say that a rabbit eating doesn't mean that the teeth aren't to blame.

For example, I have a rabbit here that no matter what is going on in his mouth he will try to eat. When he first turned up he was eating normally and gave me no cause for concern at all, until one day he rested his head on my knee and when he lifted it up I saw a wet patch.

On further investigation it was found out that one of his molar spurs was so bad that it had pierced through his tongue (he was still eating) so when he was neutered his teeth were sorted out too. Due to the amount of time he had the tongue clamp on for, his tongue felt very numb so when the poor boy started eating when he got home he managed to bite off the tip of his tongue :eek6: (no joke, Lil Miss will confirm as she was the one that had to deal with a panicked Bernie at 3am when her lovely BEW had turned into something from a horror movie :frown2

Believe it of not he STILL tried to eat with a swollen tongue, it was very bizare seeing a rabbit suck on hay :lol:

So yeah, basically what I'm trying to say is, there will be a reason as to why she stopped eating, maybe she had a slight ulcer in her mouth caused by a small spur, maybe she ate something that sent her gut flora out of sync is anyone's guess at the moment :shocked:

I apologise if I have missed it but did the vet look in her mouth with an otoscope?


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Her mouth was checked with an Otoscope yeah. She is home from a day at the vet. She had her teeth filed, x-rays and bloods taken. Nothing showed up as abnormal on her head or stomach x-rays so just have to wait and see what the blood tests reveal. Maple is currently chomping on her fresh hay 

I will update with any info I find out. I'll also update the cost of everything when I get my invoice for anyone in a similar predicament who might need to know prices. Should start a sticky with the true cost of rabbit care as many don't realise just how much they (or any pet) can cost when things go wrong. A lot of people just hope for the best but they should be preparing for the worst. 

Thanks for everyone's help!! You've been a big comfort aswell as making great suggestions of what I should do. I hope everyone is happy with my course of action. There's nothing worse than someone asking for advice then just not listening to those who know what they're talking about. 

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend with their buns!!


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Emma P said:


> Her mouth was checked with an Otoscope yeah. She is home from a day at the vet. She had her teeth filed, x-rays and bloods taken. Nothing showed up as abnormal on her head or stomach x-rays so just have to wait and see what the blood tests reveal. Maple is currently chomping on her fresh hay
> 
> I will update with any info I find out. *I'll also update the cost of everything when I get my invoice for anyone in a similar predicament who might need to know prices.* Should start a sticky with the true cost of rabbit care as many don't realise just how much they (or any pet) can cost when things go wrong. A lot of people just hope for the best but they should be preparing for the worst.
> 
> ...


Yes - they certainly are very expensive pets to keep, now that vet care has moved on, and so much is treatable. We have spent thousands on our bunny crew this year.  and it can only get worse, now they are getting older.

It's well worth either putting a regular, substantial amount away each month for vet bills, or insuring them.

Sounds like you are looking after your bun well. Glad there were no tooth root problems or abscesses.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Still no phone call about blood tests from my vet yet and still no invoice through the post but Maple is back to normal. I believe it was what I thought it was from the start which was a little too much ingested hair from grooming while moulting. She's eating her pellets, eating a lot of hay and her poops are back to being a perfect size and shape. 
I am going to keep a stash of Papaya extract in the house and either give as a regular treat to help both my buns digestion or just give as required. I've also bought two brushes so when Maple's out I can brush her. She loves fuss so I know I'll have no problem getting her loose hair out so this can be prevented.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Glad she is now OK.

Grooming her will certainly help reduce the fur that she ingests.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Emma P said:


> Still no phone call about blood tests from my vet yet and still no invoice through the post but Maple is back to normal. I believe it was what I thought it was from the start which was a little too much ingested hair from grooming while moulting. She's eating her pellets, eating a lot of hay and her poops are back to being a perfect size and shape.
> I am going to keep a stash of Papaya extract in the house and either give as a regular treat to help both my buns digestion or just give as required. I've also bought two brushes so when Maple's out I can brush her. She loves fuss so I know I'll have no problem getting her loose hair out so this can be prevented.


What is this papaya extract?


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Oops I meant to write enzyme not extract  It is supposed to help hair from grooming pass through much easier. Some people give it to their rabbits as a treat because they seem to love it and others give it while moulting to prevent what seems to have happened to Maple. It comes in chewable tablet form, was going to get mine from vetvits as I use them for my dog glucosomine and stuff like that. The tablets are more affective than giving them the raw fruit apparently.


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Hi all,

Got Maple's blood results and there is nothing showing up as abnormal. So it must have been hair. The full cost of all the treatment was £250.00 so certainly not cheap!!


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