# How many of each fish could I keep...?



## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I love platys so definitely want some, but just wondering how many of each?

For example...

1) 6 x male platys (so no babies) and 6 x golden cloud mountain minnows?

or

2) 12 x platys?

Am I right in thinking option 1 would bring a much smaller bioload?

I'm looking at tanks of 64 or 65 litres, or 70-90 litres...

Also, what bottom feeders? I've looked at corydoras but can't decide which type I prefer. I like plecos but only want a small one... any ideas?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Have you had a look on aqadvisor.com? It's a great site for getting an idea of stocking numbers. Off the top of my head, I'd say 12 platys would likely be over-stocking. 6 platys and 6 wcmm's you might get away with, but I don't think it would leave you with much capacity left.

A single bristlenose pleco would be small enough for your tank, but they carry a big bioload (i.e. they poo a lot!) so you'd need extra filtration. Corys have a much lower bioload, but should be kept in groups of 4 minimum. Since you're considering wcmm's, I'm guessing ypu're planning on running the tank at a fairly low temp, say 22 C? Good cprys for low temps include peppered and panda corys. Best to stick to one type in that size tank, though - they like to be with their own


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks, I agree with your advice. I may not get the corys, I may get shrimps instead which would be very low bioload. I'm liking the platy and gold white cloud minnow mix, will probably go with this


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Just to add to what Naomi has said, its not impossible to mix them, but just be aware that by mixing fish that prefer different temperatures and keeping them at a compromise temperature is not always ideal. White clouds prefer cooler water so keeping them at their max temp long term puts strain on their bodies are it raises their metabolism (in short, it shortens their life and increases their bioload), whereas with tropical fish kept at cooler temperatures its slows their metabolism and can make them more susceptible to illness. Suitable temperature range for a platy is 20-26C, and for the white cloud is 14-22C. Your compromise temperature is in the range of 20-22. Thankfully the likes of cherry shrimp have wide temperature margins, but it is always wise to check the ideal parameters before you buy.

You still should be trying to get the biggest tank you possibly can, and 70L really is your minimum for either species, I personally would be looking at closer to 100L.

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/tanichthys-albonubes/

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/xiphophorus-maculatus/

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/xiphophorus-variatus/

Also please note that platys prefer a pH above 7.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I was hoping to keep the temp around 20-22C 

Plecos are really cute but I don;t want a huge bioload if I can help it!

I do like the Gold white cloud minnows but they would probably be better with goldfish for those temperatures, and much as I love Orandas, I don't have room for a massive tank, and I'd be constantly worried that any tank wasn't big enough!


Might get Platys and guppies instead of the minnows, they look great together and guppies don't school so they don't need to be with loads of others, just a few would look stunning with those awesome tails they have 

How about 6 male plattys of different colours and 4 male fancy guppies? That would look awesome and would not be overstocked


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sounds good. You'll need the temp slightly higher for guppies though - say 24 C. The platys will be fine with this.

Once you find a tank you like, run the dimensions through aqadvisor before you buy, to make sure it's large enough for what you want to stock. Then you'll have plenty of time to finalise your stock list, plants and decor etc while the tank cycles!


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Sounds like a plan! I also love neon tetras so would like a small school if I have enough room! I think my cats would love to watch those in the dark!! 

OK perhaps a 90 litre tank, with 5 platys, 3 guppys, 6 neon tetras and even some bronze cories...?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sounds good! I know many people recommend cardinal tetras over neons as they are similar looking and less prone to disease. (Personally I'm still a die-hard neon fan, but then I was lucky to source very healthy stock.)


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Sounds more suitable - but definitely looking at 24C if you're looking at guppies. You could also go for endler's instead of guppies (you can't mix them because they hybridise). And 90L is ideal. There are plenty of small tetras you can choose from, but again be aware that many of the tetras prefer water in the acidic range. The neon tetra prefers water in the range of pH 4.5-7.5 (cardinals even more acidic - down to pH3!), whereas your guppies and platys prefer alkaline water above 7.

Bronze corys thankfully have a wide temp and pH range preference, but they do grow to nearly 8cm, and do prefer company, so bear this also in mind you are looking at at least 4-6 of these, which pushes you towards the end of heavy stocking. Better to select three species - say 6 platys, 6 tetras and 4-5 corys - and leave it there. Otherwise fill your tank with guppies or endlers, or pick a tetra species, and have a few corys swimming round at the bottom!

Tetras that are suitable to mix with platys (because of pH) include:

Red-eye tetra Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae (Red-eye Tetra) - Seriously Fish (not suitable fox mixing with guppies due to fin nipping)

Silvertip tetra Hasemania nana (Silvertip Tetra) - Seriously Fish

Bloodfin tetra Hasemania nana (Silvertip Tetra) - Seriously Fish (again not guppies because of fin nipping)

The rest of the ones I looked at (ones that you were likely to see in an aquatics store that don't grow massive) were all acid loving fish that would not suit a tank designed for platys. You need to test your water pH before you really decide that fish you are going for. If your water is soft and less than 7.5 I would recommend going for a mixed tetra/cory community and forgetting livebearers altogether (live bearers are less likely to breed if the water is too acidic. Guppies are pretty sensitive and won't even survive in soft/acidic water).


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Phoenix24 said:


> Sounds more suitable - but definitely looking at 24C if you're looking at guppies. You could also go for endler's instead of guppies (you can't mix them because they hybridise). And 90L is ideal. There are plenty of small tetras you can choose from, but again be aware that many of the tetras prefer water in the acidic range. The neon tetra prefers water in the range of pH 4.5-7.5 (cardinals even more acidic - down to pH3!), whereas your guppies and platys prefer alkaline water above 7.
> 
> Bronze corys thankfully have a wide temp and pH range preference, but they do grow to nearly 8cm, and do prefer company, so bear this also in mind you are looking at at least 4-6 of these, which pushes you towards the end of heavy stocking. Better to select three species - say 6 platys, 6 tetras and 4-5 corys - and leave it there. Otherwise fill your tank with guppies or endlers, or pick a tetra species, and have a few corys swimming round at the bottom!
> 
> ...


I don't want any of my livebearers to breed as I don't want to run out of room! 

Going for all males hopefully for Platys and hopefully a few Guppies too. My area is London, hard water. Will test the PH first though.

I am also considering a Coldwater tank as an alternative, depending on how much extra it costs to run a heater (I will test this by checking meter readings during cycling), and also depending how hardy the fish are. I still love the Gold white cloud minnows, would love a school of them! Also love Leopard Danios... I imagine a Coldwater tank may be easier to care for than Tropical, but I'm not sure?

Do Cardinal tetras glow as much as Neons?


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Cardinal tetras have more red on them. Cardinal tetras would not suit your hard water!

There are fish you can get for cold or cooler water tanks (ie heated in the winter if your room temperature is too low), and some of them are small(ish). In my 100L temperate tank I have golden barbs, odessa barbs, rainbow shiners (Notropis chrosomus) and white clouds (and a single daisy's ricefish). Of those, only the ricefish need harder water, the golden and odessa barbs and the white clouds are all relatively unfussy (pH range of 6-8) and the rainbow shiner has little information out there other than they are stunning coldwater fish!

There are other options, too, but again you will have to do a little research on whether or not they are suitable for harder water.

As for the cost of running the heater - I just found this interesting gem of a website :

http://www.tropicalfishsite.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-run-a-fish-tank-aquarium/

The heater is by far the most expensive item in the tank, but it is only on intermittently. If you have central heating then in the winter it won't be on as much as you think (in the summer they remain mostly off because water retains heat for longer than air). That website calculates based on worst case scenario (heater on 24/7) for a 300w heater, at 12p per kwH - which I calculate as around £315 per year to run. For a 90L tank you only need a 100w heater, which will use 876kwH if (worst case) it ran 24/7, which would cost you (at 12p per kwH) around £105 per year. Many of your household appliances use way more than this - your typical fridge/freezer uses 5x more electricity (they are about 500w) and they are on 24/7 (and probably 'click on' the chillers more often because in winter they are battling central heating).

Get your water tested for pH, decide whether or not you're going to use a heater, and then have a think about the fish you can keep in a 90L tank.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Phoenix24 said:


> Sounds more suitable - but definitely looking at 24C if you're looking at guppies. You could also go for endler's instead of guppies (you can't mix them because they hybridise). And 90L is ideal. There are plenty of small tetras you can choose from, but again be aware that many of the tetras prefer water in the acidic range. The neon tetra prefers water in the range of pH 4.5-7.5 (cardinals even more acidic - down to pH3!), whereas your guppies and platys prefer alkaline water above 7.
> 
> Bronze corys thankfully have a wide temp and pH range preference, but they do grow to nearly 8cm, and do prefer company, so bear this also in mind you are looking at at least 4-6 of these, which pushes you towards the end of heavy stocking. Better to select three species - say 6 platys, 6 tetras and 4-5 corys - and leave it there. Otherwise fill your tank with guppies or endlers, or pick a tetra species, and have a few corys swimming round at the bottom!
> 
> ...


My neons are in pH 8 and hard water, and I've never had a problem - in fact they've been the healthiest fish in my tank. My local MA, which is one of the best fish shops near me, keeps its neons in tapwater but its cardinals in RO, which was a big factor influencing my decision to go for neons rather than cardinals. But I've heard saying experienced fishkeepers saying they'd go for cardinals over neons, even in these circumstances. I'm not disagreeing with Phoenix, just putting it out there for what it's worth 

Now corys on the other hand - I got a bit of flak from cory lovers on another forum for wanting to keep any species of corys in pH 8, saying it would shorten their lifespan. My bronzes have been fine but I had real issues with panda corys from 2 different shops - only one out of 7 lived for more than a couple of weeks, and that one has now died too  So it's rather put me off trying to keep any corys other than bronze and peppered, as they're probably the hardiest and most pH tolerant, from what I can tell.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

I have albino corys (which could be any of the commoner species but I suspect they are bronze), Jullii's cory, Sterbai's cory, and a panda cory. I bought about 8 Pandas and all but one died within a couple of weeks. They are by far one of the sickliest of the corys (they are wild caught and don't survive the transition to captivity very well). The albinos, Sterbais and Jullii have all been fine with no problems. 

Most cory fans frown upon them being kept in tanks without all but the smoothest gravel or preferably sand substrate. I kept mine in sand (when I lost all the pandas) and now they are all on smooth gravel, with no trouble. Rougher gravels damage their sensitive little whiskers (the barbels) around their mouths, and long term they can become so badly damaged they starve to death. Another factor to think about.

What I read about pH and many of the tetras is that they can survive higher pH, but will not be as brightly coloured (and therefore less healthy - bright colour is a sign of health, dull colour a sign of stress or sickness) as when kept at the pH they prefer. For the sake of the fish - and given that there are other species to choose from -I would avoid getting acid-loving fish if you have harder water (why put the fish through it? They might survive but how comfortable are they really? - no offense Naomi  ) but if the fish have been acclimatised properly or grown in hard water then they may cope ok, and perhaps will be better off left in hard water than trying to change them back to acid. They will still likely have a shortened lifespan, however.

There's lots to think about when getting fish - its not as easy as filling a bowl with water and shoving the first fish you see into it!


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

I do agree that it's best to keep fish that suit your pH, but I was lucky enough to get hold of a really good batch of neons which seem to thrive in our local 'liquid rock'. I didn't ask, but suspect they may have been bred in harder water. I wouldn't have bought the neons I'd seen in many other shops, but these ones were brighter, more active and generally healthier looking, and in a year and a half I've only lost one (and not due to health issues - it got trapped in the intake of an over-powerful pump I was using  I didn't think there was space for a fish to get behind it, but the neon was just small enough.)

I'd always wanted neons, ever since I was a kid, and they're still my favourite tank inhabitants.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

NaomiM said:


> I do agree that it's best to keep fish that suit your pH, but I was lucky enough to get hold of a really good batch of neons which seem to thrive in our local 'liquid rock'. I didn't ask, but suspect they may have been bred in harder water. I wouldn't have bought the neons I'd seen in many other shops, but these ones were brighter, more active and generally healthier looking, and in a year and a half I've only lost one (and not due to health issues - it got trapped in the intake of an over-powerful pump I was using  I didn't think there was space for a fish to get behind it, but the neon was just small enough.)
> 
> I'd always wanted neons, ever since I was a kid, and they're still my favourite tank inhabitants.


I bet Pebbles loves them too, they look especially awesome in the pet shop in the dark with the tank lights off! 

Bronze or peppered cories have a shiny appearance in the dark too


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

My endlers glow in the dark too!


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