# urgent advice needed ...please...



## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

im really sorry for this being my first post but we are at our wits end , we have a beautiful lhasa apso girl called poppi , she is only 23 months old , we took her to our vet a week ago on saturday for her annual boosters , saturday she was fine sunday she was ill and by monday morning she was critical , we rushed her to the vet who put her on a drip and started antibiotics immediately, she started to have a large fluid filled sack about her elbow and our vet was baffled , anyway they said it was a reaction to the booster , they contacted the drug company who supplied the drug and they said drugs are fine but this sounds like cellulitis which can happen to any dog but as a good will gesture they would cover our girls bill upto £500, our girl was kept in for four days but was miserable and they suggested taking her off her drip and allowing us to medicate her at home , poppi started eating and drinking again and has started fighting back however i was petting her on her neck and i could feel the pus and whe i opened her fur for a look ,her skin just started splitting in my hand, back to the vet (same vet different person) , the vet shaved her and took a deep breath and said she had never seen a reaction like it (as did the owner and the person who normally treats her)it has actually spread worse this pic was taken yesterday, it wraps round her leg upto her armpit and is about an inch wide ,we dont know what to do ,we are back at vets tomorrow , one vet said she has such extensive damage she might not be able to close the skin thats going to drop off , other one has said she thinks it will but its a long road and she doesnt know what she will be like at the end of it , we dont know what to do , we want the best for poppi , we have her insured , should we just push to put her in hospital , we are devastated this wee lady is such a character and we love her to bits... please please advise we are very stressed ,thanks for reading...


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## gsdbrodie (May 11, 2012)

Hi, I opened your message to see if i could offer any advice, I am sorry I can't help, i've never heard of such a reaction from an injection. I feel really bad for your wee girl. I would push the vets to refer you to a someone more specialised in this area, if there is one. Sorry again but I send my best wishes for her recovery.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

hi and thanks gsdbrodie , i really hope poppi gets better aswell and im really clutching at straws for advice... shes on antibiotics and pain relief but her injuries are vast and shes just plodding along ..really hurts us to see her like this ...


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Is she in pain and does the vet think she will recover? I think I'd want to make sure I'd done everything possible as long as it meant that they weren't suffering. Definitely see if you can get more specialised support. Best wishes.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks jobeth ,she is on pain relief but generally is just plodding around ok , i can pet her and i can touch the infected area that has now since that image ,started to crust up and peel back , i have a 6-9month sized baby grow on her 24/7 so she cant lick or gnaw her leg any worse , ill see what the vet has to say in the morning ,thanks for reply..


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Your poor dog  that looks so sore. 

Ask your vet for an urgent referral to see a dermatologist. Her skin needs an experts opinion and treatment IMO.

I hope poppi gets better soon.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

That looks extremely painful; I hope that Poppi is on the road to recovery soon.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks folks ,its just the conflicting information we are getting , one said she will be ok the other said we might be better putting her to sleep as wound might not close, vet doesnt think we will need to claim insurance as drug company will pay but if i dont claim and poppi survives and has more problems down the line i wont be covered ..its a real nightmare ...


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

I know it looks pretty horrendous but dogs are amazing and with the proper care I am sure she will bouce back. You are right it will be a long haul. 

However, if this were my doggie I would be asking the vet to take swabs to ensure they prescribe the correct antibiotic early enough to kill any bacteria. I would also ask to be referred to a dermatologist who specialises in these types of injuries.

Lastly I would take pictures from every angle at each stage so that you can take this up with the drug company. There should have been warnings somewhere and I am guessing you were not advised of them.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

moz76 said:


> thanks folks ,its just the conflicting information we are getting , one said she will be ok the other said we might be better *putting her to sleep as wound might not close*, vet doesnt think we will need to claim insurance as drug company will pay *but if i dont claim and poppi survives and has more problems down the line i wont be covered* ..its a real nightmare ...


Skin grafting is possible with dogs. Speak to your lawyer about this or if you can't afford it try and speak with a qualified insurance broker or someone who lectures insurance - they will be able to advise.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks , we have taken a few pictures , the drugs company and vet both stated this is not our fault , the germ must have been on the dogs skin at point of injection and so that we dont lose faith in the booster system as a good will gesture they will pay the bill upto 500 pounds , we have always had a great relationship with our vet , we had to put our rotty to sleep last thursday as she had cancer and the vet was terrific ... what a tough time... thanks for replies..


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

moz76 said:


> thanks , we have taken a few pictures , the *drugs company and vet both stated this is not our fault* , the germ must have been on the dogs skin at point of injection and so that we dont lose faith in the booster system as a good will gesture they will pay the bill upto 500 pounds , we have always had a great relationship with our vet , we had to put our rotty to sleep last thursday as she had cancer and the vet was terrific ... what a tough time... thanks for replies..


That was kind of them to say that!

However, it is normal practice for a vet to swab the area prior to inserting the needle, presumably he did that?

Speak to an insurance broker about the insurance side of things because £500 seems a lot but it may not be enough if you have to involve a specialist.

I am sorry to hear about your Rottie but please do not be lulled into a false sense of security because you have a good relationship with your vet - vets can and do make mistakes - I know this only too well from experience. First and foremost you want the best possible treatment for your dog and I personally would go down the route of a specialist, a) because they specialise in this field and b) they are detached from what has happened (if you get what I mean).


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

912142 said:


> Skin grafting is possible with dogs. Speak to your lawyer about this or if you can't afford it try and speak with a qualified insurance broker or someone who lectures insurance - they will be able to advise.


Firstly so sorry to hear of your dog's problems. I really just want to echo what 912142 has said; you REALLY need to get a referral. Forget any loyalty to your vet - your first and only loyalty is to your pup 

Dogs can and do have horrific responses to injections; many do recover so please don't despair. I think you urgently need a second opinion/referral.

I agree with everything 912142 has advised you.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

moz76 said:


> im really sorry for this being my first post but we are at our wits end , we have a beautiful lhasa apso girl called poppi , she is only 23 months old , we took her to our vet a week ago on saturday for her annual boosters , saturday she was fine sunday she was ill and by monday morning she was critical , we rushed her to the vet who put her on a drip and started antibiotics immediately, she started to have a large fluid filled sack about her elbow and our vet was baffled , anyway they said it was a reaction to the booster , they contacted the drug company who supplied the drug and they said drugs are fine but this sounds like cellulitis which can happen to any dog but as a good will gesture they would cover our girls bill upto £500, our girl was kept in for four days but was miserable and they suggested taking her off her drip and allowing us to medicate her at home , poppi started eating and drinking again and has started fighting back however i was petting her on her neck and i could feel the pus and whe i opened her fur for a look ,her skin just started splitting in my hand, back to the vet (same vet different person) , the vet shaved her and took a deep breath and said she had never seen a reaction like it (as did the owner and the person who normally treats her)it has actually spread worse this pic was taken yesterday, it wraps round her leg upto her armpit and is about an inch wide ,we dont know what to do ,we are back at vets tomorrow , one vet said she has such extensive damage she might not be able to close the skin thats going to drop off , other one has said she thinks it will but its a long road and she doesnt know what she will be like at the end of it , we dont know what to do , we want the best for poppi , we have her insured , should we just push to put her in hospital , we are devastated this wee lady is such a character and we love her to bits... please please advise we are very stressed ,thanks for reading...


As its started on the elbow ie a joint I think it may be something called Bursitis, Bursa are fluid filled sacs that protect the joints and tendons. They can swell and become infected. One of the causes is an auto immune reaction
(the body attacking self) as it has happened after a vaccination I would be suspect that this is the possible cause. In predisposed dogs vaccinations is one of the triggers to set off auto immune problems. In this case inflammatory cells could have been produced by the immne system. The Bursa
can then also become infected with bacteria and rupture and start to drain.Bacteria will cause the infection to spread further.

Ive just looked up treatment, and a sample of the fluid should be taken to look for specific bacteria to enable the correct anti biotics to be given.
Normally non steroidal anti inflammatorys are given, but in the case of auto immune causes (which I suspect this may be because of the recent vaccination) steroidal anti inflamms prednisone should be given, which makes sense as steroids suppress the immune system, and if its auto immune thats what you want. Its the immune system going on over drive and attacking itself making the inflammatory cells. If the condition doesnt respond to meds them it needs surgery. it needs sorting urgent, the more damaged tissue the less chance of good tissue for a repair. I wouldnt be messing about with a GP vet you need a veterinary specialist.

I knew about bursa and Bursitis as Ive researched in the past for a problem with one of my dogs. Im not an expert but the scenario is plausible.
ETA There is 11 bursa located in the front legs including the shoulder and 10 in the back legs of the dog and more then one can be infected.


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## fifemute (May 30, 2012)

Hope every thing goes well with Poppi.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks for all the comments , ive had a dog for years our rotty was 12 when she passed and id never heard this could happen through boosters, the vet said they cant swab a dog because of the amount of hair they also said they have evidence to say that its more likely to cause reaction , poppi had a massive bruise that went from her injection site right down her leg ,the vet said the fluid filled sack is pus from the injection site and gravity has made it run into her leg and collect at the elbow/armpit, this got so swollen it started to seep and then it burst , they then shaved her up and her skin started bursting and as i said it was tearing apart at the back of her neck, we were told we were not to wash her but to allow the pus to run out so thats what we have been doing ,the whole black part you can see in the first post is almost off completely this morning and under her armpit is a huge hole filled with yellow pus ... shes at vet this morning at 9.30 , ive been up half the night with her trying to stop her licking , this isnt our fault ,our dog went to the vet a happy healthy little girl and is now in such a mess and to add insult to it we will have the pain of going through insurance claims ...i will need to calm down before i get to the vet .. but thanks again ...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

moz76 said:


> thanks folks ,its just the conflicting information we are getting , one said she will be ok the other said we might be better putting her to sleep as wound might not close, vet doesnt think we will need to claim insurance as drug company will pay but if i dont claim and poppi survives and has more problems down the line i wont be covered ..its a real nightmare ...


I just wanted to say that nobody should be assuming it is a reaction to the vaccination; it could be purely coincidental and if you don't claim from the insurance company, then where will you be? It seems to me that if you have her insured for a lot, you would be better off claiming from them.

I say this because the day after my 10 week puppy had his second vaccination, he became very ill, unco-ordinated, vomiting, etc. and I took him to vet assuming it was a reaction. It wasn't, it was heatstroke.

I wish your Poppi well and hope she recovers soon. I wouldn't be thinking about pts when they are not even sure of the cause; this seems a bit extreme. Lots have wounds that cannot be stitched; doesn't mean they cannot be packed and grafted.

Perhaps your vet is concerned about the additional cost, since the drug company have offered up to £500. This sort of operation would cost a lot more. Personally, I think you should forget that and claim from the insurance, that way you will be covered for all eventualities.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

You could ring the insurance company for advice. Also a cushion collar would stop her licking. Hope she gets better soon.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks again people , i think im going to claim my insurance like you have said , i will find out what the vet thinks soon and ill get back to you , the vets were the ones who told me it was a reaction to the injection even though this would have been her third time being injected , he said that the drug was fine but some germs must have gone in along with the injection , all the vets who have seen poppi have said they havent seen anything like it before , the vet who deals with her has 25 years experience , even the owner phoned me to tell me he hadnt seen this before , they are good vets and i dont think they are hiding anything ,the owner told me(over the phone) my dog was fit and well before injection ... i dont care what caused it i just want her fixed ... shes loved so much... x...


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

just in from vets , poppi has been referred to vet hospital in glasgow , i have an appointment in the morning , our vet thinks her wound may not heal up , poppi has a huge hole under her armpit and this is the cause of most worry ,the vet wants a second opinion ...


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I can't add anything I'm sorry but just want to say that I hope everything goes well for Poppi in Glasgow. 

So sorry to hear about you rottie


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## VixenFox (Jun 3, 2012)

hope your puppy gets well soon


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks , we are preparing for the worst but hoping for the best .x.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

She is going to be in the best placce at a veterinary specialist, unlike a GP vet the vets there are (if that is where she is going) will specialise in their individual various disciplines. Do hope that they can do something for her.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Ive done some more searching looking for auto Immune problems vaccination triggered that can cause necrosis and problems with the skin along with the original symptoms she had prior to the skin breaking out. There is something called Vaccine Induced Vasculitis. Although fairly rare in the dog it might explain why the vets stumped. Its a very intense website so to save hunting through Ive copied and pasted with a full link later.

Vaccine-Induced Vasculitis (An Immune Complex Disease) 
Vaccine-induced vasculitis is an adverse reaction that occurs very rarely in dogs, but it has been most often associated with administration of the rabies vaccine (although other vaccines may also be involved). This condition may present as many as 3-6 months following immunization. Additionally, there are causes other than vaccine reactions that may produce vasculitis in canines such as food allergy, drug reactions (i.e. ivermectin and itraconazole), lymphosarcoma, or unknown causes (idiopathic vasculitis). The vaccine-induced form of vasculitis, however, has a distinct, consistent histologic inflammatory (mononuclear/nonleukocytoclastic) pattern that may be helpful for differentiating this reaction from other underlying causes for vasculitis. In general, though cutaneous forms of vaccine-induced vasculitis may be identified by areas of hair loss and large red or purple spots ("purpura.") on the skin that may look like large bruises, the lesions may also appear as hives, a rash, or painful or tender lumps. In more severe cases, loss of blood flow to the skin may produce necrosis (death) of the skin, which will appear as ulcers or small black spots at the tips of the ears or toes.

Symptoms of systemic vasculitis are vague and appear similar to symptoms of many other disorders: fever, lethargy, muscle and joint pain, poor appetite, weight loss, and fatigue. More specific symptoms of vasculitis will be dependent upon the organ or organ systems involved which may include the brain and nervous system (behavioral disturbances, tremors, muscle weakness, seizures), gastrointestinal system (abdominal bloating, pain, bloody stools), the heart and lungs (difficulty breathing, coughing, exercise intolerance, heart enlargment), and the eyes (loss of vision).

In general, vasculitis associated with immunization is another form of "immune complex disease" and is believed to occur in dogs that have abnormal T-cell function. That is, T-cell unresponsiveness to circulating antigens (vaccine components) results in these antigens circulating in the blood for prolonged periods of time and thus providing time for the antigens to be deposited in tissues of the body, primarily the blood vessel walls. When this occurs, white blood cells (macrophages) will recognize the antigen as foreign and commence an attack on the vaccine component. Unfortunately, the inflammatory responses that accompany destruction of the antigen can injure the blood vessel, which will produce the condition of vasculitis. Damage to minor blood vessels may only result in mild symptoms of red patches on the skin where immune-complexes have been deposited. When larger blood vessels are involved or in cases of major systemic involvement, symptoms may be severe. Dependent upon the extent of the organ involvement and damage, many dogs will respond favorably to prompt administration of glucocorticoids (anti-inflammatory steroids). As with other immune-related hematologic disorders, however, dogs with vaccine-induced vasculitis are at high risk to developing and succumbing to the secondary complication of pulmonary emboli (when blood clots formed during vascular damage break free and are deposited in the lungs).

T-cell unresponsiveness that occurs primary to this type of adverse reaction may occur as an inherited defect, but more commonly it occurs as age-related compromise of the immune system. As dogs and humans get older, it is more common to encounter immune-system dysfunction. This presents a dilemma for veterinarians in regard to administration of vaccines because an aged immune system does not only increase risk for the older dog to contract and be more susceptible to infectious diseases, but also increases risk for adverse reactions to immunization. Therefore, not vaccinating places an older dog at considerable risk for acquiring and dying from infection, while vaccinating may cause auto-immune complications (most commonly immune-mediated hemolytic anemia) in some of these older dogs. Because, on average, risks of disease still outweigh immune reactions in older dogs and in absence of any previous indication that a dog may harbor immune dysfunction (currently there are no standard tests that could differentiate those dogs that will have an immune reaction from those who will not), veterinarians will typically recommend vaccination for older dogs. The use of antihistamines in conjunction with vaccinations, however, may be indicated to reduce some components of the inflammatory response associated with immune-complex formation for which these older dogs may be at higher risk (since histamine has been found to play a role in platelet aggregation associated with allergic vasculitis).

Wing-N-Wave Labradors Vaccines, Infectious Diseases and the Canine Immune System


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

i really cant thankyou enough for taking the time to research that info , i can see some similar parts of the condition that poppi has , she has recovered tremendously well from this time last week , shes eating ,drinking peeing and pooing lol shes walking about without a limp and generally just being poppi ...its going to be devastating to us if we have nursed her back to health only to be told tomorrow they cant heal the wound , two out of the three vets we have seen now have said its unlikely to close , the only vet to say otherwise was an emergency vet who had said she has seen worse but she also said it needs a specialists soft tissue expert to make a decision .. they all agree that its the huge hole under her armpit thats the major issue as this cant be immobilised in order to let the graft or whatever heal.. ill keep you posted on how we get on , but once again thanks everyone for the info but also the kind words.. x..


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

moz76 said:


> i really cant thankyou enough for taking the time to research that info , i can see some similar parts of the condition that poppi has , she has recovered tremendously well from this time last week , shes eating ,drinking peeing and pooing lol shes walking about without a limp and generally just being poppi ...its going to be devastating to us if we have nursed her back to health only to be told tomorrow they cant heal the wound , two out of the three vets we have seen now have said its unlikely to close , the only vet to say otherwise was an emergency vet who had said she has seen worse but she also said it needs a specialists soft tissue expert to make a decision .. they all agree that its the huge hole under her armpit thats the major issue as this cant be immobilised in order to let the graft or whatever heal.. ill keep you posted on how we get on , but once again thanks everyone for the info but also the kind words.. x..


Can't they pack the wound? I know it is in an awkward place and she is a dog who does not understand, but years ago I had a cyst on my stomach area which got infected and the skin was too thin to stitch back together. They packed it and it healed up fine.

It might mean her being immobolised for a while, but worth it I would have thought. Please let us know as soon as you know.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

if you had told me last monday she would look as well as she did just now (apart from wound) i wouldnt have believed you , she has battled her wee heart out to get this far im just praying that we walk in to these specialists tomorrow and they say ...whats all the fuss about , sure no problems we can fix that... i really dont care what she looks like when she comes out of it but aslong as she is healed and healthy again , shes such a character we arent ready to say bye to her yet so fingers crossed ...x...


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Just to say my Collie had the same I really thought he was going to have to be PTS but he had a drain put in for 10 days and also strong antibiotics,he could never have boosters again but made a full recovery.Hope all goes well for you.xxx


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

im going to try and post some of todays pictures so if you have a weak stomach please dont look ...


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

pictures from this morning when i got up to change her baby grow lol ... anything to stop her licking the wound ...please remember they arent very nice... x.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

moz76 said:


> if you had told me last monday she would look as well as she did just now (apart from wound) i wouldnt have believed you , she has battled her wee heart out to get this far im just praying that we walk in to these specialists tomorrow and they say ...whats all the fuss about , sure no problems we can fix that... i really dont care what she looks like when she comes out of it but aslong as she is healed and healthy again , shes such a character we arent ready to say bye to her yet so fingers crossed ...x...


I just remembered my friend telling me of her fabulous vet she used to have when she lived in cornwall it was a long time ago now, it was a lurcher in a RTA. Because of the loss of skin and severe damage to the limb usually the only alternative would have been amputation, I remembered the basic details that he had used some kind of artifical skin, and in so doing so saved the leg.

The wonders of The WWW, by chance I googled his name vet and lurcher and found this the case study and how they saved it using the product to help with the skin regeneration see link.

ETA just realised there are two other succesfful cases on there too and the necrosis especially on the hat are really horrific and it manage to fix that too, looks like you can use it internally too as a packing to heal an regenerate internally maybe as in the case with the other dog.

http://www.bensonmedical.ca/pdf/CookProNews/VET11981.pdf

Obviously the injury is in a different place and there is no guarantees but as you can see from the photo 21 days into the treatment it looks bad still, so its easy to imagine how bad it previously was when he dog first came in, but its a thought and worth mentioning maybe?

I remembered my friend mentioning something about pigs skin on a further check there is more about the product. Its made from pig intestines (they refer to it as sausage skin) it is a skin graft substitute and acts as replacement tissue.
It was developed in the states for chronic skin lesions. At the time it was being used in the states but hadnt been used in the UK as yet and the vet remembered reading about it, it was the first time they had used it too. See further link
Your Health: How sausage skins can help heal wounds and save limbs. - Free Online Library

As said whether it would be appropriate in your little dogs case only a specialist can tell you, I dont even know if its something thats widely used now this dates from 1998, but its a thought and maybe some hope if there isnt the skin there to suture but it may help regenerate it or enough for a repair at a later date maybe.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Just found more up to date info on Vet Biosist

Found the Biosist up to date website, it says Primary apllication is large or chronic dermal injuries where skin closure not possible. Which at least is a bit encouraging perhaps.

http://www.bensonmedical.ca/pdf/SmAnmlCt/SmAnmlP42.pdf

http://www.bensonmedical.ca/pdf/SmAnmlCt/SmAnmlP43.pdf


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks very much for posting those links , they have given us more hope


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

moz76 said:


> thanks very much for posting those links , they have given us more hope


Keep us posted how you are all doing, really hope you can get some positive news when you go to your appointment.


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## sazzle (Sep 10, 2011)

Oh my lord, just read through this post and I cant believe how bad your baby has become.

I really hope that you get her sorted.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Really hope you can get your little dog some better news tomorrow.
Please keep us updated.


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## jayne5364 (Oct 21, 2009)

Ouch. Poor baby. Lets hope they can do something for her xx


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I am sorry to hear of your problems and cannot offer any advice other than to contact Catherine O'Driscoll who may be able to come up with something. She has helped many people who have had dogs suffer reactions to booster vaccs and mainly they are the Lepto jabs that give cause for concern. You can contact her here:
http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/

A vet in Dogs Today magazine is one of many who are totally against yearly booster jabs, knowing they can be dangerous and I don't have any after the first year puppy booster - never had in all the dogs I have owned and never had Parvo, Lepto etc. I simply do not believe them to be necessary once the dogs has the antibodies in it's system.

The director of Dogmatic lost her prized show winning Dobe after a Lepto booster, in just 30 mins he was screaming in pain and was paralysed. She is now an advisor on the site above site.

I hope your sweet girl recovers and I know it's going to be a tough journey but believe she will get there. Active Manuka honey is very very good at healing wounds and you can get a medicinal kind on line to apply directly to the wound.

Active Manuka Honey medical wound and digestive treatment.

Active Manuka Honey medical wound and digestive treatment.

Manuka honey has had some brilliant reviews and I know Professor Noel Fitzpatrick (The Bionic Vet) also uses it in his practice.

Wish your little girl better and pleas update us later. xx


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## Mollyspringer (Aug 16, 2011)

Just read through this. I was going to suggest the Manuka Honey-it has amazing healing properties. Hope your little pup makes a good recovery. Keep us posted x


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

hi all , im just back from vet hospital, the guy took one look at poppi and said no problems just like we hoped , i feared the worst , she will be operated on today and thats to de-bride the wound (sorry if thats not how you spell it) ,he will then suture on a patch to allow the flank wound to granulate , under the arm he will either graft or flap , cost 3-4000 pounds but may exceed if flap rejects , time will tell ..the relief coursing through me is immense ,and the biggest incredible thing 2 week turnaround but 4 weeks if any complications but he doesnt envisage any problems at all so fingers crossed ... ive never had to claim insurance but my dog has never had a claim so lets hope its plain sailing ..ill keep you all posted and thankyou for the support and kind words oh and her wound as a result of booster injection is 1 in 1,000,000 chance ...


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## Amy-manycats (Jun 15, 2009)

Fantastic that the specialists are so positive. Good luck little Poppi, get wwell soon!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

moz76 said:


> hi all , im just back from vet hospital, the guy took one look at poppi and said no problems just like we hoped , i feared the worst , she will be operated on today and thats to de-bride the wound (sorry if thats not how you spell it) ,he will then suture on a patch to allow the flank wound to granulate , under the arm he will either graft or flap , cost 3-4000 pounds but may exceed if flap rejects , time will tell ..the relief coursing through me is immense ,and the biggest incredible thing 2 week turnaround but 4 weeks if any complications but he doesnt envisage any problems at all so fingers crossed ... ive never had to claim insurance but my dog has never had a claim so lets hope its plain sailing ..ill keep you all posted and thankyou for the support and kind words oh and her wound as a result of booster injection is 1 in 1,000,000 chance ...


I wouldn't mention that it could be a reaction to the insurance company unless you absolutely have to. You should have informed them as soon as it started, so just tell them you have been too busy worrying about her! Do not mention the offer from the drug company. Insurance companies will find any loophole to wriggle out of paying, so you do not want to give them an excuse.

I wouldn't mention the estimated cost either, just say you don't know.

I am very relieved that your little dog has a good chance of recovering. Well done little one!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

So glad that they can do something for the wound and she will be OK. Please let us know of her progress. Just check your Insurance details as I noticed on mine although I have got a lot of cover some now if the treatment is going to exceed a certain amount you have to advise them.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

hi , poppi is insured for £7000 , the insurance company has all details of how it happened , i thought of with holding info from them but id just trip myself up so thought honesty is best policy ,i told my vet i can see conflict between them and my insurance company as my dog has never been ill and the company want a twelve month med history and shes never been at the vet for anything other than boosters and also that she was at the vet on saturday fit healthy and well and by monday she was a deaths door, i know ill be liable but i will not withhold information i havent done anything wrong , i know what insurance companies are like but i want my mind to be clear , if and i mean if they refuse my claim i will think of contacting a local paper regarding the damage done to my dog through a booster injection , ill make drugs company and the vet aware of what im going to do , the cost of my dogs operation is a drop in the ocean to these people and they could potentialy lose alot more money if our case hit main stream media ,if a human had a reaction like this it would be on the news , ill be optimistic for now though and hope that the insurance company do the right thing and also the company intervet who supplied the vaccination did say that if poppi required more than £500 pounds worth of care they were to be contacted so they could revise the figure if she needed hospital care so i hope they stick by their word ... i know i took a risk by disclosing to the insurance company but this way i cant trip over anything .. ill keep you posted


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm so relieved that something can be done for Poppi and I hope all goes well with the op and she has a speedy recovery. Fingers crossed that it's plain sailing with the insurance company. 

Seeing this sort of reaction to a vaccination is very worrying. I've never understood the reason for annual boosters for animals, after all humans don't get them annually. Nor do I understand why a tiny chihauhua would need the same amount as, say, a great dane. Trouble is all insurance companies require them as part of their Ts & Cs or they exclude anything that can be connected to what the injections are meant to prevent.

Hugs from my Poppy to your Poppi.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

moz76 said:


> hi all , im just back from vet hospital, the guy took one look at poppi and said no problems just like we hoped , i feared the worst , she will be operated on today and thats to de-bride the wound (sorry if thats not how you spell it) ,he will then suture on a patch to allow the flank wound to granulate , under the arm he will either graft or flap , cost 3-4000 pounds but may exceed if flap rejects , time will tell ..the relief coursing through me is immense ,and the biggest incredible thing 2 week turnaround but 4 weeks if any complications but he doesnt envisage any problems at all so fingers crossed ... ive never had to claim insurance but my dog has never had a claim so lets hope its plain sailing ..ill keep you all posted and thankyou for the support and kind words oh and her wound as a result of booster injection is 1 in 1,000,000 chance ...


I'm so pleased to read Poppi's wound can be fixed. 

We have all fingers and paws crossed here that the OP goes well and there are no complications.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

So pleased to read your good news hope all goes well for Poppi xx


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## soulful dog (Nov 6, 2011)

Glad to hear the positive news, hope the op goes well, and best wishes for Poppi.


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## Mollyspringer (Aug 16, 2011)

That does sound like good news. Came on here as soon as I got in from work. Keep us posted xx


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

vet from hospital has been on the phone , poppi has had her first operation , she had her wound de-brided and her wound looks really healthy , she has been put on a vac machine (vaccum assisted closure) , the vet said he expects to close her leg flank wound atleast 75% by thursday (amazing) he also said one of her kidneys have a high urea level so hes flushing it out to bring it back to normal ,he said he will deal with her armpit wound on thursday but hes going to have a think about the best option ...so far so good , fingers crossed ...


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## harrys_mum (Aug 18, 2010)

sounds good, so pleased for you. what a nightmare this wound is. never ever seen anything like it.
michelle x


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## Bellas place (May 13, 2012)

Hope Poppy gets better soon, hugs to you all


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

That's great news and should do the trick by the sounds of it. Wishing her well from here and keep us posted, as I'm sure you will. 

I personally have never informed my insurance company (Argos) of any treatment my dogs have had with the exception of Flynns second hip replacement, which I am glad I did as apparently he technically wasn't insured for it but I was told by phone that he was. Because the time and date of the call was on a forum as I posted straight away, they traced it and accepted liability - paid out the full £7,000.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

moz76 said:


> hi , poppi is insured for £7000 , the insurance company has all details of how it happened , i thought of with holding info from them but id just trip myself up so thought honesty is best policy ,i told my vet i can see conflict between them and my insurance company as my dog has never been ill and the company want a twelve month med history and shes never been at the vet for anything other than boosters and also that she was at the vet on saturday fit healthy and well and by monday she was a deaths door, i know ill be liable but i will not withhold information i havent done anything wrong , i know what insurance companies are like but i want my mind to be clear , if and i mean if they refuse my claim i will think of contacting a local paper regarding the damage done to my dog through a booster injection , ill make drugs company and the vet aware of what im going to do , the cost of my dogs operation is a drop in the ocean to these people and they could potentialy lose alot more money if our case hit main stream media ,if a human had a reaction like this it would be on the news , ill be optimistic for now though and hope that the insurance company do the right thing and also the company intervet who supplied the vaccination did say that if poppi required more than £500 pounds worth of care they were to be contacted so they could revise the figure if she needed hospital care so i hope they stick by their word ... i know i took a risk by disclosing to the insurance company but this way i cant trip over anything .. ill keep you posted


I think you've taken the right course here. If you'd concealed anything from your insurance company and anything in the vet records gave the game away it could turn very nasty. They may claim back from the vaccine suppliers, but that's up to them and you should be in the clear and paid out in full.

Your poor dog, I hope she makes a full recovery.


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

This is the first time I've seen this thread. I can't believe how quickly your little girl deteriorated! I'm so glad she's in the right place and being fixed. Good luck to you both, and hope she recovers from her op quickly and comfortably  xx


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks all for the kind words and your support , i cant believe how many people have wished us well and offered advice , really touched ... thanks and still fingers crossed x .


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Sounds like great news, hope it all goes well from now on.


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## Bella Beagle Mum (Jan 24, 2012)

Just read this thread......................... OMG you really have been through the mill!!!

Glad you are starting to get sdome more positive results from the vet.

I hope the insurance company cover the treatment - I would have thought they will as they would have to *prove *the wound was from the injection site. Although the vet thinks this is what it is, I can't imagine it's that easy to prove something like this! - I would have done the same thing as you BTW and told the truth!!

Good luch I'll be thinking of you and your poor pup!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

moz76 said:


> hi , poppi is insured for £7000 , the insurance company has all details of how it happened , i thought of with holding info from them but id just trip myself up so thought honesty is best policy ,i told my vet i can see conflict between them and my insurance company as my dog has never been ill and the company want a twelve month med history and shes never been at the vet for anything other than boosters and also that she was at the vet on saturday fit healthy and well and by monday she was a deaths door, i know ill be liable but i will not withhold information i havent done anything wrong , i know what insurance companies are like but i want my mind to be clear , if and i mean if they refuse my claim i will think of contacting a local paper regarding the damage done to my dog through a booster injection , ill make drugs company and the vet aware of what im going to do , the cost of my dogs operation is a drop in the ocean to these people and they could potentialy lose alot more money if our case hit main stream media ,if a human had a reaction like this it would be on the news , ill be optimistic for now though and hope that the insurance company do the right thing and also the company intervet who supplied the vaccination did say that if poppi required more than £500 pounds worth of care they were to be contacted so they could revise the figure if she needed hospital care so i hope they stick by their word ... i know i took a risk by disclosing to the insurance company but this way i cant trip over anything .. ill keep you posted


To be honest I think you did the right thing. A lot of insurance companies now want the full history along with the 1st claim. Anything at all on the medical records claimed for or not will be disclosed. A lot of insurance companies insist of vaccinations. If you dont booster every year then although they will cover you for other things wont cover you for any diseases that could have been prevented with vaccinations. example if your dog contracted parvo virus preventable by vacs then they would not pay out. Terms and conditions with different companies do vary but this seems to be the practice with a good deal of them. I think you said that the vet today, didnt think it was vaccination linked? Seems odd that the vaccination manufacturer no questions asked are willing to offer a good will gesture to me.

Malmum posted about canine health concern and gave you a link I believe?
Catherine O'driscoll started canine health after losing dogs after vaccinations.
It may be worth you having a look at the site if you havent already, you can email with any stories and may even get advise.
Canine Health Concern - Putting your dogs health first


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

poppi update .. well the surgeon at the vet has been amazing so far , poppi's flank wound is 100% closed although he did say its a little tight in one very small area and might need re-stitched but he will monitor it , so i have my wee girl home for the weekend , shes not a happy puppy though lol she has massive bandage/stookie on her leg upto her armpit and round her stomach aswell as a dish on haha ... surgeon wants her back as in patient on monday to operate monday/tuesday to close her inner leg and armpit wound , they are planning a skin flap , i cannot believe how incredible this hospital has been , they have been on the phone everyday sometimes twice a day to keep me updated they have gave me great advice regarding claiming for her injuries , i only hope i get my wee girl back to health , its going to be a long recovery but im glad we didnt just opt to follow vets advice to p.t.s ... thanks again for all the support x.


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## Bella Beagle Mum (Jan 24, 2012)

So glad she's improving!

Hope you have a good weekend with her and best wishes for next week!


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## Amy-manycats (Jun 15, 2009)

AH great news, fingers crossed she continues to improve


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## Born2BWild (Jun 6, 2012)

This is such a touching story! I'm so glad she is on the road to recovery and you followed your heart and not the previous vets advice! All the best for a happy, healthy future together


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

glad she's done so well up till now - hope she continues to improve


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## tiggerthumper (Apr 22, 2011)

Just seen this thread, can't get over what happened to your poor baby, that looked so painful, you've coped really well too especially with all the conflicting info.
Good luck to her, glad she's on the road to recovery, the surgeons sound pretty amazing! x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

moz76 said:


> poppi update .. well the surgeon at the vet has been amazing so far , poppi's flank wound is 100% closed although he did say its a little tight in one very small area and might need re-stitched but he will monitor it , so i have my wee girl home for the weekend , shes not a happy puppy though lol she has massive bandage/stookie on her leg upto her armpit and round her stomach aswell as a dish on haha ... surgeon wants her back as in patient on monday to operate monday/tuesday to close her inner leg and armpit wound , they are planning a skin flap , i cannot believe how incredible this hospital has been , they have been on the phone everyday sometimes twice a day to keep me updated they have gave me great advice regarding claiming for her injuries , i only hope i get my wee girl back to health , its going to be a long recovery but im glad we didnt just opt to follow vets advice to p.t.s ... thanks again for all the support x.


All this from a simple booster injection. Hard to believe, really, but I am so pleased she is recovering nicely. poor little love.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm so pleased things are going well for Poppi and good luck for the next op on Monday/Tuesday.

What a terrible experience for you all and a very emotional time. Just out of interest, do you think you will be continuing with annual boosters in the future or will you now discontinue them? That's probably a difficult decision for you especially as insurance companies tend to insist on them or not cover anything that can be associated with what they're meant to prevent.

Enjoy today with Poppi and I hope she's back home soon after the next op.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

hi and thanks again , poppi has been quite sore being at home but we have been glad to have her , the progress since being admitted to hospital has been amazing as has the level of communication , the vet at hospital on admission asked if we knew if poppi was allergic to anything other than her boosters and at the time i never thought to question that as she has had two lots of jabs before this with no reaction , so im not sure if ill be able to vaccinate poppi anymore anyways and t.b.h im not sure id take the chance, the hospital vet said its a one in a million chance , their idea of what happened is when she was injected ,poppi had some kind of germ on her skin and it entered along with the injection and caused cellulitis which destroys tissue at a frightning pace , they said that they dont swab the skin due to the amount of fur on the dogs and 999.999 thousand dogs wont have this reaction and poppi has been unlucky , i have the discharge papers from the vet hospital stating it was due to a booster injection , if youd like me to copy it and post it i will , im just glad she is on the mend and hope to have her home patched up next week and then we can start to nurse our girl back to whole health , fingers crossed


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor baby, best of luck to you all and hope she continues to improve


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

moz76 said:


> hi and thanks again , poppi has been quite sore being at home but we have been glad to have her , the progress since being admitted to hospital has been amazing as has the level of communication , the vet at hospital on admission asked if we knew if poppi was allergic to anything other than her boosters and at the time i never thought to question that as she has had two lots of jabs before this with no reaction , so im not sure if ill be able to vaccinate poppi anymore anyways and t.b.h im not sure id take the chance, the hospital vet said its a one in a million chance , their idea of what happened is when she was injected ,poppi had some kind of germ on her skin and it entered along with the injection and caused cellulitis which destroys tissue at a frightning pace , they said that they dont swab the skin due to the amount of fur on the dogs and 999.999 thousand dogs wont have this reaction and poppi has been unlucky , i have the discharge papers from the vet hospital stating it was due to a booster injection , if youd like me to copy it and post it i will , im just glad she is on the mend and hope to have her home patched up next week and then we can start to nurse our girl back to whole health , fingers crossed


Glad that she is on he men now and that you have got a terrific surgeon that you are really happy with too it makes such a difference. If you are worried about giving boosters again and tbh I would be too, but at the same time are also worried about her being unprotected, there is an alternative. You can have something called a titre test, bloods are taken instead and sent off to the lab to check that she has sufficient antibodies against the various diseases to therefore has protection.

in fact they dont even have to go off to the lab now. There is something called Vaccicheck thats an inhouse testing kit, the vets themselvess can do, apparently its supposed to be about the same price as a booster would be. For details see link.

VacciCheck Antibody Titer Test

The FDA in the states have approved it too.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

well i have poppi home for a few days now they decided on skin grafts for her and touch wood they seem to be holding , thanks for the advice aswell it was much appreciated , the surgeon told us poppi would never be able to be vaccinated again and as previous poster stated we should get her blood tested for immunity , its still going to be a long road but i can see her wee character coming back , once shes back to near normal ill post pics of my wee lady lol ... thanks again everyone


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Glad things are looking good for poppi,my boy was the same and could never have boosters after that, but lived to the ripe old age of nearly 14.Suex


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

aww thanks sue i hope this is the last of poppi's troubles shes been a poor wee soul x


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm so pleased to read Poppi is recovering well. Wishing her a speedy recovery.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks for the update. I hope Poppi will be back to her normal self very soon.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

moz76 said:


> well i have poppi home for a few days now they decided on skin grafts for her and touch wood they seem to be holding , thanks for the advice aswell it was much appreciated , the surgeon told us poppi would never be able to be vaccinated again and as previous poster stated we should get her blood tested for immunity , its still going to be a long road but i can see her wee character coming back , once shes back to near normal ill post pics of my wee lady lol ... thanks again everyone


Glad that her surgery seems to be successful and she is home safe. Would love to have pics and an update how shes doing. xx


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Just read this, poor Poppi. I'm glad she's on the mend, fingers crossed for a smooth recovery


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

hi all , ive attatched some pictures of poppi , now (fingers crossed) well on the road to recovery , all grafts are growing, her kidney function is back to normal and her character is coming back... the surgeon has worked miracles so far so long may it continue ... thanks everyone for taking time to offer advice and support it has been very much appreciated


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Awww, your poor little girlie. It doesn't bear thinking about what you have all been through. Good to hear she's making progress and that her character is coming back. I hope she's running around and demanding walkies very soon .


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Aww bless her she looks like she is coping well especially after all she has been through. It looks so much better to the pictures that you posted before.

Hope she is back to her complete self and completely healed before too long.
Fatastic news her kidneys have recovered too.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Just read this thread for the first time and i am so glad your dog is recovering well.

One thing has come from this for me and that is the behaviour of the vet - a week of deterioration and then "ummm-ing" and "ahhh-ing" before referral to a specialst?  If they didn;t have a clue to begin with then they should have admitted it and got the dog or at least a swab off for invesitgation to specialists (where she thankfully got to but at a later date than she should have) who would have an idea.

I'd be looking for another vet elsewhere. I am in the process of doing that myself as my vets that I have been with for over ten years have really messed about with two of my dogs now and are dead set on eeking as much cash out of me for one of the dog's HD in that I have to pay for a perscrition AND consultation fee if I am just calling in to pick up a repeat prescription and when I said I could get them cheaper off the web (same brand everything). they have even refused to provide a vet referral fo rme to use over the web.


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## tiggerthumper (Apr 22, 2011)

Poor girl, I'm so glad she's doing well now, hoping her recovery continues well x


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Oh wow, you have been through an emotional rollercoaster!

I'm so sorry for what you and Poppi have been through but I'm so happy to see recent pictures of her looking a million times better than the first few pictures that you posted. 

I really hope that she continues to do well and is back to her old self before you know it.

One thing is for sure, we trust our vets implicitly but sometimes we just have to think that maybe there are alternatives and that their advice isn't always the best advice in every situation. I'm so glad your heart made you fight for her.....she certainly seems to be a spirited little girl.


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## Mollyspringer (Aug 16, 2011)

Ah, bless her, she's so cute. Glad she's on the mend x


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Oh my goodness that is looking fantastic :thumbup: what a brave little girl she truly is. The surgeon really has worked miracles and thanks so much for the update, so encouraging if we ever see anything like it again - we can offer the owner some hope through your thread. 

Lots of get well wishes still coming from here a very gentle hug too.


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

Well all you lovely people , some good news  poppi has been discharged from hospital , after all the operations she had she has been left with a skin tube/tunnel that goes from just under her armpit to her leg in order to give her skin flap a blood supply and to keep it alive , it doesnt affect her in any way and she is back to being her mischievious self lol , the overall cost was just under £7k , the insurance so far has paid out just over £4k but the bills went at different intervals so im glad i told them everything from the off so that i didnt trip myself up , anyways i cant thank all you people enough who took the time to comment and offer support , both our own vet and the vet hospital have said poppi will now be a case study as they have never experienced this reaction to a booster before , the only change to our girl is her fur colour has changed to a darker shade along where the wound was oh and she has a nipple on her leg from where the flap came from lol ,well heres a picture of poppi on her holidays .. thanks again ...


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

moz76 said:


> Well all you lovely people , some good news  poppi has been discharged from hospital , after all the operations she had she has been left with a skin tube/tunnel that goes from just under her armpit to her leg in order to give her skin flap a blood supply and to keep it alive , it doesnt affect her in any way and she is back to being her mischievious self lol , the overall cost was just under £7k , the insurance so far has paid out just over £4k but the bills went at different intervals so im glad i told them everything from the off so that i didnt trip myself up , anyways i cant thank all you people enough who took the time to comment and offer support , both our own vet and the vet hospital have said poppi will now be a case study as they have never experienced this reaction to a booster before , the only change to our girl is her fur colour has changed to a darker shade along where the wound was oh and she has a nipple on her leg from where the flap came from lol ,well heres a picture of poppi on her holidays .. thanks again ...


I often wondered how Poppi finally got on, it sure was a long haul and looking 
back its unbelieveable its the same poor little dog that she was back then.

Fatastic news so glad the surgery has been a sucess and now poppi is a happy little girl again and the problems are behind you all.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Well done for what you must of had to go through as well as her  Thank you for the up-date , it's really lovely to hear she is doing well


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## Amy-manycats (Jun 15, 2009)

Great! Thanks for comming back to update.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

So pleased to hear that Poppi is recovering well, what an ordeal you've all been through. Lovely photo, she looks great.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm so pleased to read your update. Poppi is looking lots better and her recovery has been amazing.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Amy-manycats said:


> Great! Thanks for comming back to update.


I was wondering what had happened too. What will you be doing about future vaccinations, as you obviously can't risk the same thing happening again?


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## I love springers (Dec 3, 2010)

I have just read through your post and am really glad that your girl has made a good recovery...


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## niki (Jan 14, 2009)

I've only just seen this thread. So pleased its got a happy ending. She looks absolutely beautiful in your last pic. Wishing you and her all the best. xx


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

glad to hear she's doing so well.


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## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

Just seeing and reading all of this now, what a story!!!!! My goodness - Im so pleased she is well now - best of luck


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## moz76 (Jun 3, 2012)

Thanks everyone again for the kind words , regarding boosting her again the surgeon at vetsnow said he would boost her but would hold his breath ... reassuring lol , she also lost her microchip as im sure you are all aware so we do have a decision to make but for the minute , i think ill just enjoy having her back and ill think about the booster thing down the line ... thanks everyone oh he did mention instead of boosting maybe test her immunity first so another option  only thing is her insurance would be void for the parvo virus etc ..


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## Ridgielover (Apr 16, 2008)

I do not routinely vaccinate my dogs after their initial injections. There is no way that I would give a booster to a dog that had had an adverse reaction to a vaccination.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

That's amazing So glad everyone gave Poppi a chance to prove what a little fighter she is.
Let hope you can put all this behind you and enjoy the rest of your lives together


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