# im thinking of breeding my cat, i need answers!! lol



## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

*hi everyone, i have a 5month old Siamese chocolate point kitten/cat, she and her mother are indoor cats always have been. i got her as a kitten and decided to get the mother too. 5month on they're relationship is amazing and after getting the mother spayed i have decided it would be great to let the young un to have ONE litter when she is old enough before i get her spayed cause she would have the help of her mum, and i would like her to experience motherhood.

I have never done this before and don't know how and at what age do i go about it?

and how and what do i do to get a stud?

any help would be gratefully appriciated! 
thanks,
sal *


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Firstly your kitten will need to be registered on the Active list if with the GCCF, she will also need to be up to date with her vaccinations.
Stud owners only allow active registered queens to visit so if your cat and kitten are not registered and were meant to be pet only then Im afraid you will not find a stud owner willing to take her as you will need to provide them with proof of the paperwork. 

It might be better to have her spayed at this point then, female cats dont need to have a litter of kittens in order to feel fulfilled in life and it would save you from the sometimes unpleasant effects of keeping a constantly calling cat.

There are quite a few Siamese breeders on here who will be happy to advice you further on the requirements for taking your cat to stud.


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## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

iF YOU PLAN ON BREEDING YOUR FEMALE WITH A STUD BE SURE THAT THEY HAVE CERTIFICATE STATING THAT HE IS UP TO DATE WITH ALL THE NESSARY INOCULATIONS AND IS PKD NEGATIVE IS LUKEMIA FREE,. ALSO ALOT OF BREEDERS WONT BREED TILL THE FEMALE IS WELL OVER A YEAR gENRALLY ONE AND A HALF AS THERE A BIT YOUNG BEFORE THAT. sOME DO IT YOUNGER BUT YOU HAVE MORE CHANCE A FEMALE WILL NOT BE READY HERSELF TO CARE FOR HER YOUNG. {ALTHOUGH THIS CAN HAPPEN SOMETIMES ESPECALLY WITH HER FIRST LITTER]. IS YOUR FEMALE IS REGISTERED AND ON ACTIVE .YOU CAN REGISTER YOUR KITTENS IF THE STUD IS ALSO. iF ON ACTIVE THE STUD CATS OWNER MAY WISH TO SEE A PINK CERTIFICATE STATING YOU HAVE THE CONCENT OF THE BREEDER TO BREED FROM YOUR CAT YOURSELF. OR IS IT GOING TO BE MORE A HOBBIE. MALES CAN BE FOUND UNDER [BREEDERS ONLINE ] THEY CAN CHARGE AROUND 150-200 PER MATING AND THE FEMALE IS GENERALLY WITH A MALE FOR AROUND 3 DAYS FOR GOOD RESULTS. YOUR BEST BET IS TO FIND ONE OF THE BREEDERS ON HERE THEY MAY BE ABLE TO HELP OR CONTACT A LOCAL BREEDER THAT IS HAPPY TO BE A MENTOR FOR YOU AND MAY HAVE A STUD SUITABLE.. THEN YOU HAVE BACK UP. VISITING SHOWS WILL ALSO HELP YOU TO GET TO KNOW WHATS EXPECTED FOR A SHOW/PET/BREEDING KITTEN. ALSO YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE BREEDERS AND ASK THEM SOME QUESTIONS. hOPE I HAVE HELPED A BIT. tERESA.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

just wanted to say I love the picture of your cat and kitten :001_wub:
Good luck in finding a stud but she really has to be on the active register to breed. If you are going to breed from her she should be at least a year old and have had a couple of seasons first. 
As Angeli says though, she doesn't need to have kittens to be fulfilled in life and there is no guarantee that her mum would be willing to help her with them.


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## Missymoo (May 19, 2009)

Sorry i have no idea on breeding!! but omg how gorgeous are mum and daughter!!! lush lush lush good luck with it all hope someone can help


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cant add much more than above. :thumbsup:


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Assuming the kitten is on the active register, your best way forward will probably be to join a breed club, they will have information on lots of studs. It will probably be next Spring now before you can mate her unless she is one who will call all year round. Watch her carefully as soon as she starts calling otherwise she will escape and you will end up with a delightful litter of half-pedigrees. And you will need earplugs 

They are lovely cats - traditional type, aren't they?

Liz


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

Thanks every one for your replies and your help!

I bought my kitten as a pet and when i went to collect her the owner had her mother too, but told me that she needed re-homing cause she couldn't be used anymore and she had two other females lined up for breeding with a stud in the garden out house.

I couldnt bare the thought of her getting in the wrong hands or being dumped so took them both and had the mother spayed.

I never got anypaper work with them, but i have had the vet look and make sure they have had they're annoculations. I wanted to breed her as a hobby and would love to see them both running around after them, the mother did used to help the other mums at the breeders!

I have not had the kitten registered on the Active list with the GCCF? how and why do i need to do this? 

THANKS FOR THE COMMENT ON THE PHOTO'S, IVE ADDED THREE MORE FOR YOU. THE FIRST IS THE KITTEN (COCO CHANEL) AND HER MOTHER (LADY JAZMIN). AND THE OTHER TWO IS COCO CHANEL! ENJOY!!


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

Hi,you cant register your kitten if you have no papers,if you still decide you want to breed after weighing up all the pro`s and cons,and you can keep the kittens if they fail to sell,preloved and adtrader advertise stud cats(unregisterd),i would wait until she is at least 12 months old.


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

*HI,
thanks its a shame i cant get her registared with no papers, but im still interested in breeding her. i would love to keep at least two of her litter how ever many she has and i know they would have loving homes ready for them as i have a big family who have fallen in love with siamese cats since ive had them. They have a great loving nature about them, and in the past i was always a dogs person but they have stole my heart and i wouldnt have any other now, lol!*


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Do you know why you have no papers? Is it a matter of the breeder having papers but not passing them on to you, or is it that the breeder breeds unregistered cats? Presumably if you got no papers at all it must be the latter because any breeder of registered cats is required to supply you at least a pedigree and a mating certificate so that you can register the cat yourself. Why not get in touch with the breeder and ask if there were any papers? (don't let her know you want them for breeding purposes)

I haven't worked out how old your cat is, is she five months or is she now older than that?

Liz


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

The reality is that your options are limited in finding a stud, almost no stud owner would let you use their Siamese boy on an unregistered pet girl.

As the Siamese coloration (blue eyes, pointed, light body) is a recessive gene then you need two copies of that gene to produce Siamese looking kittens. 
The chances of finding a non-pedigree cat carrying the Siamese gene is almost nil.
You are therefore looking at all kittens born from her will be normal moggie colours, black, black and white, brown tabby, grey, grey and white, etc . 
not pointed and not blue eyed either.

You have to ask yourself as regards homing the kittens, your family may have fallen for Siameses but will they want her moggie looking kittens?


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## Missymoo (May 19, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> You have to ask yourself as regards homing the kittens, your family may have fallen for Siameses but will they want her moggie looking kittens?


Awww whats wrong with moggie looking kittens!! lol i luvs em!!


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> The reality is that your options are limited in finding a stud, almost no stud owner would let you use their Siamese boy on an unregistered pet girl.
> 
> As the Siamese coloration (blue eyes, pointed, light body) is a recessive gene then you need two copies of that gene to produce Siamese looking kittens.
> The chances of finding a non-pedigree cat carrying the Siamese gene is almost nil.
> ...


I know you have strong views but there are people with other non registered pedigree cats out there who breed,i disagree that the op has no chance of finding a siamese stud


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I know moggies are nice and am not decrying moggies at all, each to their own. 

But I am just saying that if the OP's family thinks that they are all going to get a Siamese looking kitten from a normal mating just because the mother is Siamese, then they will be disappointed as the genetics dictate otherwise.


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> I know moggies are nice and am not decrying moggies at all, each to their own.
> 
> But I am just saying that if the OP's family thinks that they are all going to get a Siamese looking kitten then they will be disappointed as the genetics dictate otherwise.


not if she uses another siamese non reg ped!!


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-adverts.listadverts/keyword-siamese+stud/af8bd44d.html
heres a link with several studs which are obviously very much pedigree!!
Theres is even a gccf reg stud for use on pets and gccf queens!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

aww i love your cats they are gorgeous, very cute, thank you for showing us pictures,


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> not if she uses another siamese non reg ped!!)


I am not getting into another registered/unregistered debate, but is that good?

Breeding two "pet" quality Siamese together is not really in the interests of the breed or of the kittens produced. 
Pet quality cats can be designated pet quality because they harbour genetic illnesses so are thought to be no good for breeding as they will pass these defects on. 
People who breed these pet quality animals may be opening big cans of worms that they are totally unaware of as they do not know the family history or the genetics of some lines.
Good breeders "pet out" these cats so that they will not be used for breeding. Along comes your indignant "why not" person who thinks they know better and why can't I breed from my cat if I want, I'll find another "pet quality" cat to breed from. I give up.

This is a list of the diseases that have been found to be inherited in Siamese cats, it is not a small list.
Inherited disorders in cats - SIAMESE/ORIENTAL/BALINESE/TONKINESE


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

...and why would a registered pedigree be any less likely to be subject to any those so called hereditary diseases ?

I have to say in 20 odd years of owning siamese, I have only heard of a couple of those things popping up in siamese! If you read down the list, some actually say siamese have a decrease risk of developing whatever it is that is mentioned.

From the pictures the OP put up, her siamese are old style siamese and therefore probably LESS likely to have any hereditary nasties as opposed to some modern "show" lines that are bred purely for type alone - health and longetivity have fallen by the wayside long ago.

Mating unregistered cats, with no papers, to my mind does nothing to ruin the gene pool of the breed. Even if their offspring and their offspring are used to produce kittens, they won't end up in the "pedigree gene pool". Without any kind of certified paper work, those cats are not technically pedigrees they are domestic shorthairs of pedigree appearance.

All of the above can be applied to ANY breed.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

The hope is that any self respecting pedigree breeder would be aware of the risks of defects in their breed and act accordingly. 
A pet owner having acquired a pedigree pet and wanting kittens has no idea of what is in lines nor what they have actually got genetically.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> Pet quality cats can be designated pet quality because they harbour genetic illnesses so are thought to be no good for breeding as they will pass these defects on.


Yes, but let's be honest, the great majority of non-active cats are not non-active because of genetic defects!

Liz


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> A pet owner having acquired a pedigree pet and wanting kittens has no idea of what is in lines nor what they have actually got genetically.


But if its not added back into the 'pedigree gene pool' what's the issue. Unregistered, no paper pedigree look alikes are the same as household pets. Its no different to people producing moggie kittens. They have no idea what they have genetically either.

Lets face it, in the real world, the vast majority of registered pedigree breeders do not know what they are working with genetically either. Yes there are those that have been breeding and creating their own lines for 30 odd years and maybe they do know what issues there are in their lines, but the question is would they admit it to anyone. Any new breeders or anyone who has been breeding for 10 years or less using their own or different lines has very little chance of knowing EXACTLY what they are working with because of that cloak of silence. They may THINK they do based on their experiences to date, but have no idea what recessive nasties lurk within their pedigrees. Anyone in those circumstances who declares they know everything about their lines is at best niaive and at worst dishonest - imo.


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## gemmaleigh66 (May 27, 2009)

poor op she's gonna wish she hadnt asked lol xx


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## gemmaleigh66 (May 27, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> The reality is that your options are limited in finding a stud, almost no stud owner would let you use their Siamese boy on an unregistered pet girl.
> 
> As the Siamese coloration (blue eyes, pointed, light body) is a recessive gene then you need two copies of that gene to produce Siamese looking kittens.
> The chances of finding a non-pedigree cat carrying the Siamese gene is almost nil.
> ...


I think i remember seeing a post to all us in regards to crossbreeds/moggies/mongrels etc some people like a pedigree others are partial to a good old fashioned tabby to be in the family home, i have two cross breeds a ragdoll cross and a bengal cross and it wouldnt matter to me if they were half goat they are still my cats and i loves em xxx


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

gemmaleigh66 said:


> I think i remember seeing a post to all us in regards to crossbreeds/moggies/mongrels etc some people like a pedigree others are partial to a good old fashioned tabby to be in the family home, i have two cross breeds a ragdoll cross and a bengal cross and it wouldnt matter to me if they were half goat they are still my cats and i loves em xxx


Me too, i do like some pedigree cats, i love bengals but would never own one, i love my moggies and when the time comes (hopefully in many years) i know it will be another moggy i go for x


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## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

sal_1988 said:


> *HI,
> thanks its a shame i cant get her registared with no papers, but im still interested in breeding her. i would love to keep at least two of her litter how ever many she has and i know they would have loving homes ready for them as i have a big family who have fallen in love with siamese cats since ive had them. They have a great loving nature about them, and in the past i was always a dogs person but they have stole my heart and i wouldnt have any other now, lol!*


You can find studs online but just be sure there up to date with there innocutions and clamidia negative and fip neg. etc to you dont want to past any infections etc on to your female or vise versa. As some one esle pointed out it would be more pedigree looking pets but with out the paper work. If you have homes already set up i would imagine you would get a lot of enjoyment from it. As long as there are homes for them to go to as sadily theres to many cats/kittens needing homes. When it comes to it its your cat and your choice as to if you go ahead and breed from her and that she and her kittens if she has them are well cared for and healthy. Lovely cats by the way.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

gemmaleigh66 said:


> poor op she's gonna wish she hadnt asked lol xx


Do you blame her ?


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## LucyCat (Apr 5, 2009)

I am a little confused here.

Whether kittens are registered/non-registered/moggie, the main concern is that they are looked after well and found loving homes etc.. No problem there.
Not everyone wants a pedigree cat, and if the lonely old gentleman down the road can give a moggie cat a wonderful home, then that is absolutely great.

Howeverif a registered breeder has for example an FCK kitten that rights itself by the time it is of homing age, then obviously that breeder is selling the kitten as a pet for a very good reason and that breeder trusts the owner to neuter that kitten.
The owner may decide what the hell, I will just let the cat have one litter; she looks perfectly OK to me; I have homes for the kittens, they will be cared for.
So then you have a pregnant FCK cat who may potentially give birth to unhealthy kittens and/or stillborn kittens, and those surviving kittens then may be homed to other people who decide to breed from them, and so it goes on. The unsuspecting un-registered stud owner would not know that the cat coming to his/her stud was FCK; or possibly wouldnt even care.

What I am saying is, maybe not _all_, but _some_ kittens are sold as pets for very good health reasons, and no matter how thorough a breeder is in vetting owners there is never any guarantee that the kitten wont be bred from. Therefore, why on earth are some breeders on here almost encouraging the breeding of unregistered kittens? 
It may only be one or two kittens that are born unhealthy or stillborn, but surely this shouldnt be condoned, especially by breeders who are supposed to care about the health of their cats and kittens.

Would any breeder on here be comfortable with their pet quality kitten being bred from, whether for health/genetic reasons or not?
If the answer is no, then I cant understand the attitude towards unregistered breeding, as all breeders then may as well offer every kitten from every litter to pet owners for breeding without papers.
It may well not affect the gene pool, but it is surely in the best interests of the cats and kittens?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

First Why do you want to breed her? Is it just to keep kittens back as you think they will be like her? As they wont be, all kits/cats are different!

Why not get your family to re-home a Siamese cat each? And have her spayed? 

If you do go ahead with it, just make sure you do it right! Up to date Vac's FIV & FeLv tested same with the Stud, You will have to ask them if they will accept her first, most wont.

Be prepared for things going wrong, my last girls kittens died inside her and she needed emerge op, I wont say how much it cost(!) but make you sure Save quite a bit!! Things can go wrong, are you are prepared for Anything to happen....?

Or things can go plain sailing! You will need a birthing kit (thread up above with ideas what to put in it) Money to feed them look after them, mum might not be a good mum and you may have to feed the kittens every 2 hours day & night (it is very tiring!!!) money for injections etc then finding homes people might by them and breed them, will you have contracts?

Its a mind field and you really dont appreciate the amount of work that pedigree breeders (most) put into it, it isnt a case of 'aww cute kitten I want my cat to be a mummy!' 

months scanning pedigrees to enhance their girls features, breed out faults, right colours/patterns late nights my mind is now the shape of a pedigree form!! 

Anyway no one can stop you or convince you otherwise so I guess we can only help you.

If you do go ahead just try and do it properly!


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> First Why do you want to breed her? Is it just to keep kittens back as you think they will be like her? As they wont be, all kits/cats are different!
> 
> Why not get your family to re-home a Siamese cat each? And have her spayed?
> 
> ...


Spot on.

It can be a *very *stressful time. The lack of sleep is not great, do you plan to be with mums when she has the litter ? You do have to check on mum and babies every few hours, especially in the first few weeks, I now see how *lucky* I was with our litter. We did lose one and that's something else you may have to deal with.

You have to think about feeding the kittens when weaning them, we go through at least 3 or 4 boxes of kitten food per week and 2 to 3 packs of litter for them.

You also have to get used to visitors coming to your house to see their kittens when they get a bit older.

I would also advise you to start saving now if you do go ahead incase of emergency and you would have to take your girl to the Vet.

Best of luck whatever you decide.


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

Sometimes i feel that in the breeding section of these forums the only 'acceptable' breeding is registered active pedigrees.
The world doesn't work like that. And nor should it, spay all moggies and non registered cats and where would that leave us? Didn't Hitler try something like that??
When i joined here i didn't realise how pedigree orientated the breeding boards were.
I thought the whole point of this forum was for any Tom, Dick or Harry to come in and ask for advice or information and get treated as a fellow human being without every non registered breeder getting jumped on and TOLD (not advised) what to do with their pets.
If i didn't have such a thick skin i would of stopped posting on this board near enough as soon as i started.
Treat others as you yourself expect to be treated, by all means voice opinions but surely whilst doing this it is only fair to be courtious and polite in the process.

Off to hide until the dust settles, just fed up of every non registered breeding thread turning into a free for all.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Heavenleigh said:


> Sometimes i feel that in the breeding section of these forums the only 'acceptable' breeding is registered active pedigrees.
> The world doesn't work like that. And nor should it, spay all moggies and non registered cats and where would that leave us? Didn't Hitler try something like that??
> When i joined here i didn't realise how pedigree orientated the breeding boards were.
> I thought the whole point of this forum was for any Tom, Dick or Harry to come in and ask for advice or information and get treated as a fellow human being without every non registered breeder getting jumped on and TOLD (not advised) what to do with their pets.
> ...


Oh dear, I was being nice, I think. It was supposed some across as nice.


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

mellowma said:


> Oh dear, I was being nice, I think. It was supposed some across as nice.


Sorry hun i didnt mention any names it wasn't directed at you


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Heavenleigh said:


> Sorry hun i didnt mention any names it wasn't directed at you


Sorry, I am a wee bit paranoid.


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## purrlover (Mar 27, 2009)

heavenleigh.. i know what you mean and where you are coming from :thumbsup: im waiting on my first queen coming home to me (shes not coming untill aug) shes a manx tortie and white.. shes wonderful, but anyway back to op (lol) when i first joined this forum i was so excited about breeding full of questions etc , but i was made to feel , well to but it bluntly , made to feel stupid , because i was a novice breeder ,some (not all) breeders are very "old school" and dont like new breeders , like i said not all, ive also spoken to some great breeders that have been more than helpful, 

i do also think that the power of conversation can get lost on the internet, what can be meant as tongue in cheek can come across as sarcastic etc 
hope that makes sense 
julie x


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

As far as i'm concerned the bottom line is, as long as the cats/kittens are well looked after and everything is done correctly to make sure the cat/kittens are healthy and in tip top condition then good luck to SAL in breeding her cat, it really has nothing to do with anyone else and i would only be too willing to offer any advice i could. good luck and best wishes...........CHRIS.


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## purrlover (Mar 27, 2009)

raggs said:


> As far as i'm concerned the bottom line is, as long as the cats/kittens are well looked after and everything is done correctly to make sure the cat/kittens are healthy and in tip top condition then good luck to SAL in breeding her cat, it really has nothing to do with anyone else and i would only be too willing to offer any advice i could. good luck and best wishes...........CHRIS.


:thumbsup::thumbsup: hooray ..someones sees sense ....:thumbsup::thumbsup: great post chris just what i wanted to say!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

To my mind, as long as it's done properly the kittens and Mum given the proper care and attention, with the breeder going into the whole process fully informed with their eyes open, finding the kittens properly vetted new homes, sending them out fully vaccinated, wormed, vet checked etc then what's the problem. I disagree with this elitist 'pedigree breeder' with registered prefix attitude because I have seen far too many appalling (imo) breeders hide behind the fact they have a registered prefix to give them credibility.

The possible issue here is that for all intents and purposes the kitten and her mother look to be pedigree. At some point in their ancestry there must be properly registered pedigree cats. To get from that point to a kitten with no papers and alarm bells start going off. Yes it could be that some one purchased a registered pedigree(s) on the active register with the respective breeders full permission for that kitten to be bred from, but the owner of those cats simply chose not to register the kittens. However, more than likely, someone along the line has been dishonest and taken a kitten as a pet and used him/her for breeding having lied about their intentions to avoid paying a possible premium for a breeding cat. Breeding without a registered prefix and without registering the kittens allows that person to do what they like. Kittens do not have to be fully vaccinated etc and can be sold for max profit at 8/9 weeks old with no come back. They are not bound by the same rules as those with registered prefixes.

As with any breeder moggie/pedigree look alike/registered pedigree then you retain the right to place that kitten in the home you think best suits that kittens needs. I don't want my kittens bred from unless I know the person and can be assured that they won't be abused and spend the rest of the breeding life bare pawed and pregnant only to be rehomed when they are no longer useful. That is my right. If someone is honest and says they want a kitten for breeding, then I will happily pass them onto breeders who are happy to sell "active" kittens. If someone comes to you, lies about their intention then you can understand the feelings behind some of the posts on here.

That is not saying thats the case with the OP or the breeder of the kitten's Mother, but somewhere behind those two that scenario probably played out.

To my mind there are "breeders" and there are people that let their cats have sex. To be the former takes dedication and commitment whatever breed/non breed you are working with. The latter comes in all shapes and sizes with registered prefixes and without.


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## LucyCat (Apr 5, 2009)

raggs said:


> As far as i'm concerned the bottom line is, as long as the cats/kittens are well looked after and everything is done correctly to make sure the cat/kittens are healthy and in tip top condition then good luck to SAL in breeding her cat, it really has nothing to do with anyone else and i would only be too willing to offer any advice i could. good luck and best wishes...........CHRIS.


I agree.

No matter what cat you breed, whether pedigree or DSH etcas long as the cats and kittens are well looked after, happy and healthy, then that is great. Every single cat and kitten is as precious and deserving as the next one.

My point was that some unregistered pedigree kittens _could _be being bred from with health issues either known or unbeknown to the new owner, and therefore any future kittens _may_ be born with potential health problems also. Therefore, I would not personally _encourage_ breeding unregistered pedigree kittens for that reason alone. I am not slating the owners, or any breeders, I am merely concerned for the health of the future kittens _if_, and I say _if_, the Mother has any sort of health/genetic problem that may be passed on to her kittens, which was why she was sold as a pet in the first place.

My opinion doesnt matter to anyone else, but I have a right to voice it, and I also respect everyone elses right to have an opinion.
If people are happy and comfortable with what they are doing then they shouldnt really be worrying about what other people think anyway


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## purrlover (Mar 27, 2009)

Saikou ...another great post well said ...:thumbsup:


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

LucyCat said:


> Howeverif a registered breeder has for example an FCK kitten that rights itself by the time it is of homing age, then obviously that breeder is selling the kitten as a pet for a very good reason and that breeder trusts the owner to neuter that kitten.
> The owner may decide what the hell, I will just let the cat have one litter; she looks perfectly OK to me; I have homes for the kittens, they will be cared for.
> So then you have a pregnant FCK cat who may potentially give birth to unhealthy kittens and/or stillborn kittens, and those surviving kittens then may be homed to other people who decide to breed from them, and so it goes on. The unsuspecting un-registered stud owner would not know that the cat coming to his/her stud was FCK; or possibly wouldnt even care.


Yes, but that can only occur if the breeder does not declare that openly at the time of sale. If it were me, and the kitten had any sort of hereditary defect, I would be emphasising strongly to the buyers the reasons why this kitten must not be bred from - and I would put that on the receipt too. But then, as far as I am concerned, if someone is good enough to have my kittens at all I am happy for them to have a girl on the active register (as long as they are prepared to take advice) and I simply ask them the question when I first talk to them. They have absolutely no reason to lie to me about it because I do not make it difficult for them to get one from me. In fact the last time I sold a girl as a pet, I said to the new owner very clearly "if you should decide you want to have a litter, please get in touch with me and I'll help you do it properly". In fact the cat was spayed because in the end the new owner did not want the responsibility of kittens and that is fine of course. To the best of my knowledge (and there is no reason to suppose I am wrong) only five of the kittens I sold have ever been bred from (three were on the active register, two were not).



> What I am saying is, maybe not _all_, but _some_ kittens are sold as pets for very good health reasons, and no matter how thorough a breeder is in vetting owners there is never any guarantee that the kitten wont be bred from. Therefore, why on earth are some breeders on here almost encouraging the breeding of unregistered kittens?


Certainly if a person buys a cat on the non-active register it should not be bred from. As for unregistered pets, what's the difference whetehr it's pedigree or not? Personally I think we desperately need some of these blood lines and would love to see the GCCF make it easier for these breeders to come back to registered breeding - at the moment with many breeds it can't be done at all, however many generations you go, and for others it is five or six generations.



> It may only be one or two kittens that are born unhealthy or stillborn, but surely this shouldnt be condoned, especially by breeders who are supposed to care about the health of their cats and kittens.


Is that any worse than what happens with registered breeding?



> Would any breeder on here be comfortable with their pet quality kitten being bred from, whether for health/genetic reasons or not?


Well, it happened to me once, the lady bought a boy and a girl and bred them - selling the kittens with no papers for almost as much as my registered kittens. The thing I found most annoying about it was that the owner refused my offer to get the cats onto the active register, telling me it didn't matter, they didn't need papers. That DID annoy me. That is one reason why these days I just ask the question first.

The only way you can actually stop people breeding from your cats is to sell them already neutered. If you don't want to do that (and I don't, for no reason other than I am terribly squeamish about it), then some sort of trust needs to come into the equation. And if you have one kitten that must not be bred from, and you tell the people why, they will not choose that kitten if they want to breed.

Liz


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

Saikou said:


> To my mind, as long as it's done properly the kittens and Mum given the proper care and attention, with the breeder going into the whole process fully informed with their eyes open, finding the kittens properly vetted new homes, sending them out fully vaccinated, wormed, vet checked etc then what's the problem. I disagree with this elitist 'pedigree breeder' with registered prefix attitude because I have seen far too many appalling (imo) breeders hide behind the fact they have a registered prefix to give them credibility.
> 
> The possible issue here is that for all intents and purposes the kitten and her mother look to be pedigree. At some point in their ancestry there must be properly registered pedigree cats. To get from that point to a kitten with no papers and alarm bells start going off. Yes it could be that some one purchased a registered pedigree(s) on the active register with the respective breeders full permission for that kitten to be bred from, but the owner of those cats simply chose not to register the kittens. However, more than likely, someone along the line has been dishonest and taken a kitten as a pet and used him/her for breeding having lied about their intentions to avoid paying a possible premium for a breeding cat. Breeding without a registered prefix and without registering the kittens allows that person to do what they like. Kittens do not have to be fully vaccinated etc and can be sold for max profit at 8/9 weeks old with no come back. They are not bound by the same rules as those with registered prefixes.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with your post, well put x


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## purrlover (Mar 27, 2009)

great posts from some great breeders who obviously care a lot , i have no problem with peoples opinions even if they are strongly worded (yours have not been ) so would just like to say thanks for being considerate and constructive  we ( me incuded ) sometimes jump on the stop being so harse band wagon ... so the other should apply too .. great replies :thumbsup:
julie x


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

I dont want to be attacked for this comment this is purely my personal opinion, I think if you are going to breed then do it properly as a responsible breeder with papers and the correct knowledge on genes etc. If not then i think there are enough kittens sat in rescues needing homes already without breeding anymore for the sake of.

Just my opinion though


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Heavenleigh said:


> Sometimes i feel that in the breeding section of these forums the only 'acceptable' breeding is registered active pedigrees.
> The world doesn't work like that. And nor should it, spay all moggies and non registered cats and where would that leave us? Didn't Hitler try something like that??
> When i joined here i didn't realise how pedigree orientated the breeding boards were.
> I thought the whole point of this forum was for any Tom, Dick or Harry to come in and ask for advice or information and get treated as a fellow human being without every non registered breeder getting jumped on and TOLD (not advised) what to do with their pets.
> ...


I think that some are and some arent, I try to help where I can! 
The only thing that annoys me is cats being let out to mate whoever as I pride myself on doing things to a high standard and then people let there cats out willy nilly to mate whoever comes along!

I have a moglet myself, moglets are great cats, but if your going to do something dont cut corners and do it properly!



mellowma said:


> Spot on.
> 
> It can be a *very *stressful time. The lack of sleep is not great, do you plan to be with mums when she has the litter ? You do have to check on mum and babies every few hours, especially in the first few weeks, I now see how *lucky* I was with our litter. We did lose one and that's something else you may have to deal with.
> 
> ...


Thanks :thumbsup:


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> I think that some are and some arent, I try to help where I can!
> The only thing that annoys me is cats being let out to mate whoever as I pride myself on doing things to a high standard and then people let there cats out willy nilly to mate whoever comes along!
> 
> I have a moglet myself, moglets are great cats, but if your going to do something dont cut corners and do it properly!
> ...


I totally agree with you there, and you have always come across pleasant and informative in your posts.


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

crofty said:


> I dont want to be attacked for this comment this is purely my personal opinion, I think if you are going to breed then do it properly as a responsible breeder with papers and the correct knowledge on genes etc. If not then i think there are enough kittens sat in rescues needing homes already without breeding anymore for the sake of.
> 
> Just my opinion though


Well put and you are totally entitled to your opinion, but are we forgetting that pedigree 'designer' cats originate from the humble moggy? some pedigree breeds have existed for less than 50 years!
What right does anyone have to exterminate the origins of the humble moggy?
The dodo is exhibited in many museums worldwide and a sad loss to mankind.
The humble moggy has existed for thousands of years and as long as it is bred with love, care and affection to the same standards a pedigree is (and i dont believe all pedigree breeders conform to the (welfare of the animal first) guidelines then all in all it is not a bad thing really!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

crofty said:


> I dont want to be attacked for this comment this is purely my personal opinion, I think if you are going to breed then do it properly as a responsible breeder with papers and the correct knowledge on genes etc. If not then i think there are enough kittens sat in rescues needing homes already without breeding anymore for the sake of.


I am not disagreeing with you just want to throw the following into the mix :

How does one gauge who is a responsible breeder? Simply having a registered prefix doesn't guarantee that. Even amoungst those pedigree breeders who take the high moral ground about having a registered prefix, declaring how much they have researched etc there is a shocking lack of knowledge of even the basics. I have often thought that before anyone is granted a prefix they should be made to take a written test that covers the basic of husbandry, genetics etc. Then a separate paper(s) on that breeders chosen breed(s) set by the BAC. That way there would be some definitive evidence that a modicum of research had actually be done. You can not drive a car without a test 

There are alot of cats and kittens in rescues, but some people prefer a kitten, and to go to a home environment to select that kitten. If all "breeders" - non ped and ped - took responsiblity for the kittens they produce then that would relieve some of the pressures on rescues.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Both good points above!! 

I think as long as the cats genetic history is known, that it is done with research and with cats that are suitable to be bred from then thats fine, i love moggies!! I think alot of pedigrees have many genetic problems for them to just look pretty or ideal. The welfare of the animals is the most important. I just personally dont see why people breed cats for the sake of when there are so many already needing homes. but like i said before thats purely my personal opinion.

I do have bengal that i adopted and the reason i bought a pedigree to go with her was for the temprement of that particular breed, i guess thats why people like specific breeds because they all have there traits. I do feel bad for not rescuing a kitten though, i was just very aware of Betula being abit funny with other cats and wanted her to have a housemate she would get on with and wouldnt stress her out.


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

Hi everyone,
First of all il be honest, after the 3rd page i completely lost the will to live!!!
I'm new here and i joined this forum as i couldn't find answers else where. 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and i respect everyone's beliefs and i can see the passion everyone has on this subject of breeding un-registered pedigree's. But i am my pets owner and only i can make the decision, like every other pet owner, i have my pets health in mind, ALWAYS. 

If i was to go ahead with the breeding, like any new life that comes into this world, it needs support, love and time as well as money. i wouldn't dream of doing so if i couldn't offer any of these. I am a responsible owner....
ANYWAY back to the orignal topic..
lol

Just to clarify i bought my kitten who is now 6month old from a lady who has been breeding siamese for 30yrs (and the granma of my kitten was in a james bond movie cause she was such excellent pedigree...so she says), she had told me she never had any paperwork as she did it as a hobby and extra cash. I also bought her mother as the breeder needed to re-home her. First thing i did was get her spayed. I would like my kitten to have siamese kittens. she is a chocolate point and her mother was a lilac and her father a seal (i know u all proberly guessed this lol)

if possible does anyone know what i can expect from a chocolate point queen? (type of colour etc)
:sad:

OH AND BY THE WAY MY NAME IS SAL, BUT I AM A MALE HAHA, IT ALWAYS CONFUSES PEOPLE SO YOUR ALL EXCUSED.
 x

oh and here are a few more pics, thanks for all your nice comments about my pics! x


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

I would love a Siamese kitten one day! Maybe one day......
in the meantime I just have my lovely Rusty and Dusty who are (in my eyes) just as lovely and as loving!
Good luck Sal with whatever you decide to do. If you do breed from your gorgeous girl, hope all goes well.
Your cats are absolutely gorgeous!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sal_1988 said:


> if possible does anyone know what i can expect from a chocolate point queen? (type of colour etc)


Hi Sal, your girl carries dilute. It depends what you put her to. If you put her to a seal carrying chocolate and dilute you could get seal, chocolate, lilac and blue in the ratio (if my brain is still functioning)

3 seal: 3 chocolate: 1 blue: 1 lilac

Liz


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## purrlover (Mar 27, 2009)

sal_1988 said:


> Hi everyone,
> First of all il be honest, after the 3rd page i completely lost the will to live!!!
> I'm new here and i joined this forum as i couldn't find answers else where.
> 
> ...


excelleent reply sal ... your cats are beautiful .. good luck ,some how i dont think you will need it , you sound to me like you have your babies best intrest at heart .. plz tho can we have more pics of your girls? :thumbsup:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

OMG - those gorgeous blue eyes!!! She is such a pretty girl as is her mum:001_wub:


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## Missymoo (May 19, 2009)

sal_1988 said:


> Hi everyone,
> First of all il be honest, after the 3rd page i completely lost the will to live!!!
> I'm new here and i joined this forum as i couldn't find answers else where.
> 
> ...


Well said!! and your kittys are just too gorgeous!!! :drool:


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

thanks for your help liz, so do you think i should try breeding her with a seal? 


Thanks guys! me and my partner call them our babies as i dont have any kids haha! so you can bet i have hundreds of pics of them both! x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Heavenleigh said:


> I totally agree with you there, and you have always come across pleasant and informative in your posts.


lol thanks! 



sal_1988 said:


> Hi everyone,
> First of all il be honest, after the 3rd page i completely lost the will to live!!!
> I'm new here and i joined this forum as i couldn't find answers else where.
> 
> ...


Thats the only thing that I dont like, real breeders dont make money its a expensive time consuming 'hobby' (if you like) That costs money when done right.

When its done wrong and cutting corner, then sure lets get cats to have sex and sell the kittens to get us some extra cash!

Thats what I dont like about people who do That sort of breeding!


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## bichonsrus (May 16, 2009)

Heavenleigh said:


> Sometimes i feel that in the breeding section of these forums the only 'acceptable' breeding is registered active pedigrees.
> The world doesn't work like that. And nor should it, spay all moggies and non registered cats and where would that leave us? Didn't Hitler try something like that??
> When i joined here i didn't realise how pedigree orientated the breeding boards were.
> I thought the whole point of this forum was for any Tom, Dick or Harry to come in and ask for advice or information and get treated as a fellow human being without every non registered breeder getting jumped on and TOLD (not advised) what to do with their pets.
> ...


very well put!:thumbsup:


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## bichonsrus (May 16, 2009)

Saikou said:


> But if its not added back into the 'pedigree gene pool' what's the issue. Unregistered, no paper pedigree look alikes are the same as household pets. Its no different to people producing moggie kittens. They have no idea what they have genetically either.
> 
> Lets face it, in the real world, the vast majority of registered pedigree breeders do not know what they are working with genetically either. Yes there are those that have been breeding and creating their own lines for 30 odd years and maybe they do know what issues there are in their lines, but the question is would they admit it to anyone. Any new breeders or anyone who has been breeding for 10 years or less using their own or different lines has very little chance of knowing EXACTLY what they are working with because of that cloak of silence. They may THINK they do based on their experiences to date, but have no idea what recessive nasties lurk within their pedigrees. Anyone in those circumstances who declares they know everything about their lines is at best niaive and at worst dishonest - imo.


very well put!:thumbsup:


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

*@ taylorbaby

when did i say i wanted to cut corners and make money??

in my culture we was bought up never to sell an animal to make profits and to this day i never ever have, the sole purpose of me doing so is cause i would like my kitten to experience what motherhood is like before i take it away from her and get her spayed. i personally feel that she will then feel she had a purpose in life esp as she is a house cat. plus she has her mother to help her at raising them, her mother has had a few litters with the past owner and has also helped "nanny" other kittens.

i will keep many of the kittens my self and i know i have ample time, space and money to do so and if i feel i can bare to part with one i know my sister would love a new cat as she lost hers a year ago.*


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

sal_1988 said:


> *@ taylorbaby
> 
> when did i say i wanted to cut corners and make money??
> 
> ...


Hiya you should read my post again, not one piece of it was aimed at you, & you never said that 
I was talking about so called 'breeders' who do it for money.

Didn't mention you once, dont know you! I was making in Bold a post that I just realized you posted about someone who did it for 'extra cash' go back and re-look!  

I have given some good advice on here dont shout at the people on your side trying to help, in big blue words! :thumbsup:


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

sorry chick it's my fault I read it wrong and as u can expect I'm in deffensive mode! once again sorrrrry! 

I know what u mean the breeder I got her from was init for cash and not the joys of breeding!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

As you seem very determined, then you need to wait until she is almost fully grown which is probably at about a year. Before that time she may display signs of heat, calling loudly, wiggling her bum in the air, flicking her tail, rolling about and purring. She may also start weeing inappropriately or spraying too especially when on heat but some entire cats do that all the time, some entire cats don't do that at all, but don't be surprised if she does. She should ideally have 3 heats before breeding, but if she is very young when she starts then you may have to let her have more.
At this time she may become very adept at sneaking through doors trying to get out via windows etc. you cannot let her do this as any tom cat in the area will be waiting for her, it can also be dangerous out there for a girl on heat.

Once she is of a good enough size then you need to find a stud cat, be very careful, make sure the place is clean and you are happy with the set up and preferably get him tested for at least FIV and FeLv before letting him near her.

If you want Siamese looking kittens you will have to use a pointed stud, as I said in my previous post, her coloration is mostly recessive, pointed and chocolate are both recessive, if you use a non pointed boy or a moggie boy then the kittens will end up being selfs, tabbies, normal moggie colors probably. She will carry dilute from her lilac mum so you may get dilutes depending on what he is or carries.

Pregnancy is not without its complications, you have enough time to do some proper reading before the big event. Make sure you are clued up, so that if anything isn't going to plan then you are well prepared, her life or her kittens lives may depend upon it. Search the internet, buy some books re cat breeding too. Have a nest egg available in case she needs to have a caesarian or extra vet care is needed for her or her kittens.

Get the kittens vaccinated and let any you do sell/give away stay with you until they are 13 weeks old, after they have had both sets of vaccinations.

HTH


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

sal_1988 said:


> sorry chick it's my fault I read it wrong and as u can expect I'm in deffensive mode! once again sorrrrry!
> 
> I know what u mean the breeder I got her from was init for cash and not the joys of breeding!


lol thats ok! Just dont write so big! :laugh:

You could phone her and ask if any cats were are reg'd and she might be able to reg her for you?

Read my post, post 30 for more help


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> First Why do you want to breed her? Is it just to keep kittens back as you think they will be like her? As they wont be, all kits/cats are different!
> 
> Why not get your family to re-home a Siamese cat each? And have her spayed?
> 
> ...


A excellent post, cant add much more to that :thumbsup:

Only thing to add is that girls will spray, mine do and it stinks and you cant get rid of the smell! And they become very sneaky, dont let her get out.

Plenty of registered studs take un'-registered cats if they have health tests, just ask them, if you 100% want a cat with points, either a Siamese, Birman or Ragdoll would be best.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sal_1988 said:


> thanks for your help liz, so do you think i should try breeding her with a seal?


Well that depends what colours you want. To be honest, with an unregistered cat you are not going to have many options, it might well be a matter of who will take you.

Does anyone know if there is a facility to get such a cat registered with TICA or FiFE if judges at a show agree it is pedigree? I seem to recall that one of those bodies has that facility.

With the GCCF you could in fact go through five generations with registered Siamese studs (if you can find five to take you), registering each litter on the reference register, and then eventually you would have a line of fully registerable Siamese. It would be a long haul but quite good fun I should think.

liz


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

if any of her cats where registored like her mum or ggran or her dad does this mean the breeder could get my coco reg? and do you think i should start going shows to learn more? 
i think ive learnt so much in the last 24hr of you guys, your all experts!!
thanks for being pathiant with me and helping!!


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

sal_1988 said:


> Hi everyone,
> First of all il be honest, after the 3rd page i completely lost the will to live!!!
> I'm new here and i joined this forum as i couldn't find answers else where.
> 
> ...


Wow Sal, your cats are just scrummy, at the end of the day its your choice, if thats what you want to do, it doesn't sound like you are doing it blindly and are taking on board the money that is involved.

I hope whatever you decide it goes well for you! Welcome to the forum! Hope you like it!

Izzie


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

Just read your thread, they are lovley looking cats! very nice. looks like you have some good advice here and good luck


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sal_1988 said:


> if any of her cats where registored like her mum or ggran or her dad does this mean the breeder could get my coco reg? and do you think i should start going shows to learn more?
> i think ive learnt so much in the last 24hr of you guys, your all experts!!
> thanks for being pathiant with me and helping!!


If both parents were registered and on the active register, and you can either persuade the breeder to do it or you have a mating certifcate, yes.

Otherwise your only option would be to register her on the reference register as "Siamese type" with unknown parents. I know you can register a cat with one unknown parent, not sure if you can register a cat with both parents unknown.

If you want to be in it for the long term, use a registered stud - there was that Siamese one that would accept moggies - and then register the offspring. Getting your first generation is going to be the difficult bit if you can't get your girl registered.

Actually, I'll ask for you, see what I can find out.

Liz


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

*Sal

It's great you took on Mum too and responsible you had her spayed. Might I suggest you spay your Kitten too. If I was in your shoes I would do the following:

I would take the kitten to some cat shows and show her in the pedigree pet section (judged on presentation, temperament etc)

I would, while at the shows, look at the siamese cats etc and prehaps try talk to some owners/breeders.

Then, when you've done more research etc into breeding and siamese would I consider looking for a girl who is correctly registered for breeding. You will the be able to go to a stud who is health checked etc... thus not risking your girl.

I'd really take a huge step back and do lots more research and planning.

:thumbsup:

Good Luck in whatever you feel is right for you.

*


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

thanks for all your advise and i think i will contact the breeder today and ask a few questions and do alot of homework and look at my options!

fingers crossed!:laugh:


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

sal_1988 said:


> Just to clarify i bought my kitten who is now 6month old from a lady who has been breeding siamese for 30yrs (and the granma of my kitten was in a james bond movie cause she was such excellent pedigree...so she says), she had told me she never had any paperwork as she did it as a hobby and extra cash.


I will just add no paperwork does not equal "hobby breeder". I am a hobby breeder, I make a loss on every litter and am happy to do so, but all my kittens go to to their new homes vaccinated, wormed, microchipped, insured, vet checked, registered and kissed and cuddled to within a inch of their lives 

I would also add if you want to mate your girl, fine its up to you. However, don't do it because you think she will be more fullfilled afterwards having experienced motherhood. Their drive to have kittens is purely hormonal, not emotional. Without the hormones - ie spayed - they do not mourn their lost uterus and wish they had had kittens. That is a human rationalisation nothing to do with a cats psychy


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Saikou said:


> I will just add no paperwork does not equal "hobby breeder". I am a hobby breeder, I make a loss on every litter and am happy to do so, but all my kittens go to to their new homes vaccinated, wormed, microchipped, insured, vet checked, registered and kissed and cuddled to within a inch of their lives
> 
> I would also add if you want to mate your girl, fine its up to you. However, don't do it because you think she will be more fullfilled afterwards having experienced motherhood. Their drive to have kittens is purely hormonal, not emotional. Without the hormones - ie spayed - they do not mourn their lost uterus and wish they had had kittens. That is a human rationalisation nothing to do with a cats psychy


Excellent post :thumbsup:


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

when you phone the breeder ask her why there are no papers? maybe you have to have her spayed before she will give you papers as thats what happend with Kizzie as she has been sold to you as a pet..
most breeders are hobbie breeders but still register their animals


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I think Sal said the breeder doesn't register her cats?

Anyway, Sal, you can register your cat if you wish, she will go down as no recognised breed though.

Liz


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

lizward said:


> I think Sal said the breeder doesn't register her cats?
> 
> Anyway, Sal, you can register your cat if you wish, she will go down as no recognised breed though.
> 
> Liz


hehe sorry must not have had my glasses on


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

If she is registered as "no recognised breed" would a stud owner with a registered stud accept her?

If she is registered as "no recognised breed" would she then be "on the Active"?

If so, then anyone with a "pet" pedigree cat could ignore the previous registration as it is on the "non-Active" register, then register her as unknown breed "on the Active" with the hope that she would then be accepted by those with a stud cat as she is "registered".
I don't somehow think that would go down very well with a lot of pedigree breeders or stud owners, unless she was part of a proper outcross program.

I also think that if the OP wants to start breeding properly and if this girl cannot be properly registered as a Siamese on the Active then getting this girl spayed and then buying an Active registered girl is the far easier option. Otherwise having reference register cats for I think it is 6 generations till they are accepted seems a very long and winding road especially for a beginner.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> If she is registered as "no recognised breed" would a stud owner with a registered stud accept her?


They would certainly be allowed to. Whether they would or not, is another matter.



> If she is registered as "no recognised breed" would she then be "on the Active"?


Yes, the owner would be the one registering her and could put her on the active.



> If so, then anyone with a "pet" pedigree cat could ignore the previous registration as it is on the "non-Active" register, then register her as unknown breed "on the Active" with the hope that she would then be accepted by those with a stud cat as she is "registered".
> I don't somehow think that would go down very well with a lot of pedigree breeders or stud owners, unless she was part of a proper outcross program.


Yes in theory this could be done. It is such a long haul though (6 years minimum to get back to the offsrping being regarded as Siamese) that I can't see many people actually using this loophole. Also not all breeds allow it.



> I also think that if the OP wants to start breeding properly and if this girl cannot be properly registered as a Siamese on the Active then getting this girl spayed and then buying an Active registered girl is the far easier option. Otherwise having reference register cats for I think it is 6 generations till they are accepted seems a very long and winding road especially for a beginner.


O yes, it's certainly not an easy way to go about it!

Liz


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## Marcel (May 25, 2009)

I am sorry and i am going to be very unpopular with you all but this is so wrong,you don't have a clue what you are doing,it's not all sweet kittens running around with mum and gran,do you understand the risks.......do you have a spare few hundred pounds in case things dont go right ???? and sorry but this kind of breeding is so irrespossible !!!!


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## myrkari (May 2, 2009)

I think that's a bit harsh, Marcel. Everyone has to start somewhere, and Sal is asking for help from those with more experience, which is more than a lot of people would do. He is receiving and taking on board some very good advice here. Anyway, I don't think saying he "doesn't have a clue" is very constructive


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

Marcel said:


> I am sorry and i am going to be very unpopular with you all but this is so wrong,you don't have a clue what you are doing,it's not all sweet kittens running around with mum and gran,do you understand the risks.......do you have a spare few hundred pounds in case things dont go right ???? and sorry but this kind of breeding is so irrespossible !!!!


The title of this post does clearly state "im thinking", and like myrkari said everyone has to start some where, i under stand what you mean to a degree but i think some people on here are why above theyre station and think they are allmost god by telling everyone how it should be, and like someone stated in here before didnt hitler try something like this? your all very hostile instead of saying what you believe in and leaving the ball in the other persons court, you can control unwanted kittens that get dumped on the streets but you cant control if someone has a passion for a certain animal or that certain breed and wanting to have another generation of your cat temperament and nature.

i may be young and think kittens are adorable but dosent every cat lover? Iam not irrasponsible enough to bring un wanted lifes into this world knowing that i cant offer them a good life and support financially love etc. i mean a few people keep saying to me as if i havent researched into this, i think everyone is talking to me as if i dont have pennys's in the bank compared to the minority of you guys. Im not one to tell everyone my personal financial status but to you guys who keep telling me about financial side; Me and my partner have two succesful businesses which are now running them selves so we have a lot of spare time for this. but what am i doing now? at least a year before the event (if it was to happen) im making sure its the right decision and if its right for me, my family, my life style and my cats and litter.

And marcel there is no need to be personal saying i aint got a clue:eek6::angry:


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

If *I were you*, [deep breath] and you want to breed pedigree cats properly I would spay your girl and keep her as a lovely pet and buy a proper registered girl from a good breeder and go down all the proper channels. You will be able to show her at shows, you can then find a proper registered stud cat and the kittens will be pure bred. You can register them and perhaps keep a girl to continue breeding from if you decide you want to go down that route.

Otherwise by looking for unregistered studs or breeders who will let you use your unregistered girl, you may get into some quite dodgy company unless someone on here may be able to point you in the right direction as regards a genuine health tested stud cat that the owners would let you use on your unregistered girl.
I am sure there are some lovely people out there breeding unregistered pedigree cats but there are a lot of money grabbing idiots too who will dupe you. Not all "proper" breeders are to be completely trusted either but once you get involved more in the cat fancy you can often spot them a mile off. Breed clubs, shows and speaking to breeders there will give you a feel for who you can and cannot trust.

I know some think the registration thing is a load of twaddle, but in the long run I think you will be better off.


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## Marcel (May 25, 2009)

I said I was going to be un popular !!! I am not being personal I am being honest,you didn't buy to breed and go in to every thing before you bought your kittens and you say you like the idea of seeing kittens run around with mum and gran,you may find when your girls starts to call her mum becomes very hostile towards her and their relationship completley changes,this is not a reason to breed.I agree with Lauren you should spay this kitten and do things right.If you love the breed learn about it,go to some cat shows see the breed standard,you say you have the finances and time so do it right !!
I don't regard my self better or above anyone and I am always willing to share what I know about breeding,which I still have a lot to learn too you never stop,but with some one who is willing to do thing right.
I read about a lot of people on the forum that are breeding kittens because they want their cat to have kittens before she is spayed and I just can't believe what I read it's so sad as I bet most of thses kittens will end up on the streets or in rescue centers,I am not saying yours.
Myrkari,yes we all did have to start some where but help her start in the right place save her a lot of time,heart ache and money instead of saying later you should have done this,which is not helpful !!!
I call a spade, a spade you don't have to like it but breeding from an unregistered cat is still wrong.


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## myrkari (May 2, 2009)

Marcel, some people disagree with you on the idea that breeding unregistered cats is inherently wrong. Breeding unregistered cats purely for profit is wrong, but Sal has clearly stated that he will probably keep most of the litter - how is that wrong? He's not passing off unregistered kittens as fantastic pedigrees worth £400, he's not re-introducing potentially petted out cats back into the pedigree gene pool. He's keeping them. He could've done it without coming here at all, and you'd probably be saying "aww, pics of the kittens please" 

If after he has experienced one litter he decides breeding is not something he wants to pursue, then no-one has lost. If he decides it's fantastic and he wants to continue it, then he can look into getting an active-registered girl and I bet we'll help him. But you want him to go out there and seek out someone who will let him have an active kitten for the sole purpose of having a single litter? He'd probably end up in 'quite dodgy company', as Lauren001 put it. I think if Sal wanted to breed "properly" (best word I could think of pre-9am, I mean long-term) then of course an active girl is totally the way to go - but I thought we were advising him on his one current unregistered female potentially having one litter, not on "how to be a breeder", but maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick.

(And Marcel - My girls are active and all my kittens are registered, as that's what I believe is the right way to do it, but that doesn't necessarily make me any more knowledgeable, responsible or caring than someone who doesn't involve themselves with a body like the GCCF or TICA. There are some real dodgy buggers out there, but some of the ones I've met have a prefix! Breeding unregistered cats doesn't automatically make you Satan, just like breeding registered doesn't automatically make you whiter than white.)


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Firstly let me say, I am not against anyone having kittens as long as they are doing it responsibly, but the reasons for having a litter are important.

If its just to have one litter with a girl before she is spayed because you love your girl and love to experience raising kittens, then thats one thing. HOWEVER, if its because you love the breed and want to have siamese kittens because the breed is wonderful - which it is - then do it 'properly'. Don't perpetuate the unregistered pet line, find an active girl, which would give you much more choice when coming to look for a stud. You can pick a boy that is going to give you the kind of kittens with the look you adore, it doesn't have to be the latest show look. By the use of "you" here it is not aimed at anyone in particular read it as "one".

Sal, your girl looks traditional/old style to me, if you want more information they have a really good club, which it may be worth joining Old-style Siamese Club UK


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## Marcel (May 25, 2009)

Ok in Sal's first posting he says these 2 cat have a wonderful relationship and the kitten will get help from mum,I had this wonderful relation ship with 2 of mine, once the daughter started to call all changed and I count myself very lucky to have the amount of room to keep them happy without haveing to re home one,what if this happens and he's left with a house full of cats that don't get on,what does he do then,why spoil the relationship.I know there are a lot of dodgy buggers out there and with a Prefix,and I think thats why breeding like this isn't good.


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

Thanks for all your advise, ive taken it all on board and i think i will not make any decisions as of yet and i will join a Siamese club and go to a few shows. Find out what i want to do, and see what my cats are like in the future.

Sorry if ive offended anyone but everyone is entitled to do as they wish as long as they cause no harm and are in it for the right reasons.

Wish me luck!


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## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

sal_1988 said:


> Thanks for all your advise, ive taken it all on board and i think i will not make any decisions as of yet and i will join a Siamese club and go to a few shows. Find out what i want to do, and see what my cats are like in the future.
> 
> Sorry if ive offended anyone but everyone is entitled to do as they wish as long as they cause no harm and are in it for the right reasons.
> 
> Wish me luck!


At the end of the day this is your cats and your deccission im sure your do your very best for any future kittens and there mum should you go ahead. Good luck in what ever you decide to do. I think its good your not rushing in and giving the time to give it some thought.


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## Marcel (May 25, 2009)

Hi Sal,sorry if I up set you,didn't mean too.Cats are not like people,mum's not mum for life and can end up rivals which isn't nice. I still don't agree with what you are thinking of doing but will wish you luck.It's a minefield be careful.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Marcel said:


> Cats are not like people,mum's not mum for life and can end up rivals which isn't nice.


That is a very good point, queens _can _ sometimes end up fighting with every cat in sight including those they grew up with.


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Going back to the opening post SAL said she was "thinking " of breeding her cat and wanted some help and advice, ..Marcel, do you honestly think that by saying she "doesn't have a clue" or is "Irresponsible" is offering any help or advice. What annoys me is the fact that if SAL'S cat was registered with the Gccf then Marcel would prob then be willing to offer help and advice. An attitude like that sux, as long as the cat/kittens are well looked after and have good loving homes then whats the problem. In the past ive visited some so called reputable breeders and have seen some terrible sights.Its comments like Marcel made that can give this forum a bad name , we should be encouraging new members not driving them away.......best wishes........CHRIS


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

raggs said:


> Going back to the opening post SAL said she was "thinking " of breeding her cat and wanted some help and advice, ..Marcel, do you honestly think that by saying she "doesn't have a clue" or is "Irresponsible" is offering any help or advice. What annoys me is the fact that if SAL'S cat was registered with the Gccf then Marcel would prob then be willing to offer help and advice. An attitude like that sux, as long as the cat/kittens are well looked after and have good loving homes then whats the problem. In the past ive visited some so called reputable breeders and have seen some terrible sights.Its comments like Marcel made that can give this forum a bad name , we should be encouraging new members not driving them away.......best wishes........CHRIS


:thumbsup:

Couldn't have put it better myself. A few people have ignored me when I PM them asking for advice. I now know what mean when people say "are you one of those crazy cat women" !

Thankfully I can say no!


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

sal_1988 said:


> Thanks for all your advise, ive taken it all on board and i think i will not make any decisions as of yet and i will join a Siamese club and go to a few shows. Find out what i want to do, and see what my cats are like in the future.
> 
> Sorry if ive offended anyone but everyone is entitled to do as they wish as long as they cause no harm and are in it for the right reasons.
> 
> Wish me luck!


Best of luck for the future!


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

mellowma said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Couldn't have put it better myself. A few people have ignored me when I PM them asking for advice. I now know what mean when people say "are you one of those crazy cat women" !
> 
> Thankfully I can say no!


does that make me one of those " crazy cat men " then........hahahaha...:thumbup:


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

raggs said:


> does that make me one of those " crazy cat men " then........hahahaha...:thumbup:


No No No. I am bit unsure about Marcel though he may be "one", although he could she...


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

ya never can tell these days ..lol...


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

raggs said:


> Going back to the opening post SAL said she was "thinking " of breeding her cat and wanted some help and advice, ..Marcel, do you honestly think that by saying she "doesn't have a clue" or is "Irresponsible" is offering any help or advice. What annoys me is the fact that if SAL'S cat was registered with the Gccf then Marcel would prob then be willing to offer help and advice. An attitude like that sux, as long as the cat/kittens are well looked after and have good loving homes then whats the problem. In the past ive visited some so called reputable breeders and have seen some terrible sights.Its comments like Marcel made that can give this forum a bad name , we should be encouraging new members not driving them away.......best wishes........CHRIS


Blob for you, i'm trying to keep out of it now as the abuse-advice-abuse seems to have done full circle now!
Thought this thread was finally on an even respectful keel yesterday only to get up this morning and see it has started all over again.
It's tiresome and unhelpful at best! xx


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Blob very much appreciated ty Leigh, ....All blobs are made welcome here,
I really do think its sad when a member comes into a forum for help and advice and ends up getting shot down in flames, Thankfully the ones that do the shooting are the minority........a happy weekend to all.......CHRIS


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

hi everyone ive not come to start it off again, just to say im a MAN!! *RUNS DOWN STREET FLASHING Y-FRONTS!!*

haha i should change my name to sal-man or something lol 
i dont blame anyone hint hint (chris) you never really can tell these days! muhaha


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

not another crazy cat man !!!!!!!!....:thumbup:


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## Marcel (May 25, 2009)

No I am not a crazy cat man but i do believe in being honest and realistic,if Sal's girls had been GCCF or what ever registared then more thought would have gone into breeding first as a responsable breeder wouldn't have sold a girl to a new commer with out supporting them every step of the way,don't you think the bad side of breeding should be aired too it could save a lot of heart ache.


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## sal_1988 (Jun 9, 2009)

Marcel said:


> No I am not a crazy cat man but i do believe in being honest and realistic,if Sal's girls had been GCCF or what ever registared then more thought would have gone into breeding first as a responsable breeder wouldn't have sold a girl to a new commer with out supporting them every step of the way,don't you think the bad side of breeding should be aired too it could save a lot of heart ache.


first of all i bought my kitten coco as a pet from my breeder she didnt know till yesterday that i wanted to and we are now in contact and she said she don't mind helping me through the process as she has done it for 30years. she said she breeds Siamese cause she enjoys it and has passion for it, she also said all the GCCF stuff is not worth the paper its printed on and she also told me its a certain "clique" that are all for this. She has never ever had any problems from breeding and has always produced the best litter. she has done all the shows and after years of doing so, she has come to the conclusion that it does not change anything with all the registration. I mean that's all her views on this and that's from her 30years experience!

I only decided i want to breed my kitten when she older as i took in her mother and still cant enough of two cats. Me and my partner have all the time, love and space for 10more cats!! well thats what we believe so we are happy with keeping most of her litter and maybe re home one to my sister who sadly lost one of hers a year ago. And we totally know what the financial strain it can have over the years but we are in the financial position to pay-out un-expectantly if anything was to happen (touch wood)


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Marcel, im not getting into a verbal fight on here ok, i just think if Sal or anyone else wishes to breed their cat then no-one on here has the right to object to this, i agree we are all entitled to our own opinion and at times we differ but as long as the cat/kittens are looked after surely thats all that matters . branding someone irrisponsible doesn't make you any better im sorry..........CHRIS


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

sal_1988 said:


> she also said all the GCCF stuff is not worth the paper its printed on and she also told me its a certain "clique" that are all for this.


If she is not happy with the GCCF there are 2 other registries she would register with. Its not a clique its a way of certifying the validity of the pedigrees of your cats. It also beholds the breeder to conforming to a code of ethics that cover breeding practices. I would check to make sure she doesn't appear on here Welcome to the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy she seems to have issues.

Its good that she is willing to support you.


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

Sits down calmly behind desk, pulls chair in snuggly, positions feet comfortably, adjusts screen so can read all clearly, then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Bangs head off table!


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Marcel the byb is voiced on here all the time.

I am going registered not because of any clique, I just want to do things right, for once.

Yours
*
Non Crazy Cat Clique Woman* 

My cat is too small and unregistered. I need a big breeding girl.


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

just out of curiousity what are the rules for breeding cats moggy or pedigree do you have to fill in any official forms or anything , can you get in trouble for breeding cats ? 

just out of intrest so please dont jump on me  was just reading this thread and i thought i would ask


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

:mad2:..<<<<<<<< leigh, calm down hon lol...


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

Sorry was just curious didnt mean for anyone to bang head on table lol


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

No Lisa, there is no requirement or licence required or forms or anything to stop anyone at all from breeding their cat, unless you have been convicted for cruelty.
It is a free for all.

There is however a moral debate regarding the ethics of breeding, when rescues are full of moggies requiring new homes.


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

I knew someone would jump on me lol , i was just curious after reading this thread


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

lisa281 said:


> Sorry was just curious didnt mean for anyone to bang head on table lol


Sorry if you read it wrong hun, my head banging has absolutely nothing to do with any of your questions or posts


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

oh ok , Thats nice to hear im glad i have not drove you to such lengths lol


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

This topic will go on and on , in a couple of weeks it will all be done all over again lol, if it isn't this one its the INDOOR/OUTDOOR debate,

all good fun eh .....:thumbsup:


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

lol... well while we are on that subject i have too indoor cats anyone wanna jump on me about it ... lmao ... only joking  ... but i do have two indoor cats :thumbsup:


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> No Lisa, there is no requirement or licence required or forms or anything to stop anyone at all from breeding their cat, unless you have been convicted for cruelty.
> It is a free for all.
> 
> There is however a moral debate regarding the ethics of breeding, when rescues are full of moggies requiring new homes.


And rescues aren't full of pedigree lookalikes and even full pedigrees for that matter?
Every moggy i or my family have ever owned have lived a long pampered and happy life with us adding up to 19 years!
Are you tarring every moggy owner with the same brush?
........Sorry was going to go on, but i do try my best on these boards to be pleasant factual and friendly, and i'm afraid my patience has just about reached the end of my tether!
Im sure most people are passionate about the thing they do and i have no problem with that.
But sometimes on this board i feel like we are in a nazi state.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> And rescues aren't full of pedigree lookalikes and even full pedigrees for that matter?


And which one would that be.......?


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

im sure theres one called ukrcc , recue and rehoming ragdoll cat community


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> And which one would that be.......?


Did you really just ask that question?


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

Heavenleigh said:


> Did you really just ask that question?


lol yes she did


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

I have one moggy and one choclate colourpoint who i haven't registered as i dont care about papers i only got her as she was free , and what makes me laugh is the pedigree has been ill since day one from the breeder and the moggy has been fine so what does that tell you ?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

lisa281 said:


> I have one moggy and one choclate colourpoint who i haven't registered as i dont care about papers i only got her as she was free , and what makes me laugh is the pedigree has been ill since day one from the breeder and the moggy has been fine so what does that tell you ?


But . . . just to add my two-penny-worth to this thread . . . my Birman is the healthy one and my moggy boy has had all the problems - so ... it can be any cat that is healthy.

On the breeding thing - each to his/ her own (hi sal) - if you want to breed your girl then there has been some great advice on here, if you want to go down the registered route then you have god advice there too. I admire you forsticking to your guns and sticking to this thread. I am still a novice breeder and although my girl was bought as a registered (GCCF) breeding queen I am still learning (my breeder didn't wish to mentor) and now with my new mentor my knowledge if increasing all the time, especially on the genetics side. If I did it all again I'd still do it differently (I wouldn't have a tabby girl for example) but breaking into the breeding world can be hard - once someone has sold you a prefixed cat youfind doors open wider if that prefix is well known. But hard as it is, it is incredibly rewarding too.

Personally (and this is just my opinion) if I were you and I had all the space for lots of cats that you have I would go into it with either GCCF, TICA, or FIFe cats, get a prefix and a queen or two on active (I let others keep the smelly studs to begin with). This doesn't mean don't breed your chocolate girl but just later think about doing it the registered way.

I don't agree with your breeder about registration and having new young blood entering the GCCF etc is always good. It will get cliquey if no-one new ever joins. It also provides the buyer with a sense of security too and shows you are proud to send cats out there with your prefix on. It means that you can research ancestors etc and check that your cat is what you are told it is. I love the fact that I am after a show breeding girl and I have chosen the lines I want a cat from, know the mum and dad's pedigree, know what colour the kitten will be, trust the breeder implicitly (she's my mentor now) and that even though she isn't concieved yet she will be healthy, an excellent example of the breed and obviously simply gorgeous.

Keep posting all your questions, many of us will help you.


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

spid said:


> But . . . just to add my two-penny-worth to this thread . . . my Birman is the healthy one and my moggy boy has had all the problems - so ... it can be any cat that is healthy.
> 
> On the breeding thing - each to his/ her own (hi sal) - if you want to breed your girl then there has been some great advice on here, if you want to go down the registered route then you have god advice there too. I admire you forsticking to your guns and sticking to this thread. I am still a novice breeder and although my girl was bought as a registered (GCCF) breeding queen I am still learning (my breeder didn't wish to mentor) and now with my new mentor my knowledge if increasing all the time, especially on the genetics side. If I did it all again I'd still do it differently (I wouldn't have a tabby girl for example) but breaking into the breeding world can be hard - once someone has sold you a prefixed cat youfind doors open wider if that prefix is well known. But hard as it is, it is incredibly rewarding too.
> 
> ...


Thats exactly what i was trying to say ... that its the individual cat not the breed or pedigree etc


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

lisa281 said:


> I have one moggy and one choclate colourpoint who i haven't registered as i dont care about papers i only got her as she was free , and what makes me laugh is the pedigree has been ill since day one from the breeder and the moggy has been fine so what does that tell you ?


Your pedigree chocolate colourpoint ??? that you only got because she was free and you havent bothered registering her so what does that tell us?
A VERY GENEROUS BREEDER.........must be if they give pedigrees away for free AND with the registration papers.

So why are you complaining?


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## Heavenleigh (Apr 22, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> And which one would that be.......?


Ok now comes my time to bow out from these forums,
I have enjoyed my time and made many many friends along the way but unfortunately i have also come across some people who are not only self opinionated, self obsessed and self involved but also verge on the point of being bigoted!.
I have no problem at all with people having their own opinion, and i think i have made this clear from the start, but there are certain people on this forum who are just out to get peoples backs up.
Good on all who see it and stand aside 'letting them hang themselves'. Me personally i'd rather roll out, then tie the noose!
It's a shame that this forum doesn't live up to it's name as a pet forum and maybe it should be re-named a pedigree pet forum xx
Have enjoyed my time, love to most of you xx
Leigh xx


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

Angeli said:


> Your pedigree chocolate colourpoint ??? that you only got because she was free and you havent bothered registering her so what does that tell us?
> A VERY GENEROUS BREEDER.........must be if they give pedigrees away for free AND with the registration papers.
> 
> So why are you complaining?


I aint complaining , and what i meant was i wouldn't go out and buy a full pedigree cat full price , she was free with the papers cause she was ill and i took her in knowing this and im caring for her and she is getting better 

what i meant was just cause its got pedigree dont make it a better cat than a moggy all cats are beautifull . I dont want to register her she my family pet not for show or breeding


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

Heavenleigh said:


> Ok now comes my time to bow out from these forums,
> I have enjoyed my time and made many many friends along the way but unfortunately i have also come across some people who are not only self opinionated, self obsessed and self involved but also verge on the point of being bigoted!.
> I have no problem at all with people having their own opinion, and i think i have made this clear from the start, but there are certain people on this forum who are just out to get peoples backs up.
> Good on all who see it and stand aside 'letting them hang themselves'. Me personally i'd rather roll out, then tie the noose!
> ...


unfortunetly leigh this isnt the first cat forum ive come across with this BAD attitude


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## lisa281 (May 29, 2009)

Angeli said:


> Your pedigree chocolate colourpoint ??? that you only got because she was free and you havent bothered registering her so what does that tell us?
> A VERY GENEROUS BREEDER.........must be if they give pedigrees away for free AND with the registration papers.
> 
> So why are you complaining?


A very generous breeder who gave a sick cat away for free ... aint breeders suppost to care for there litters????


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Heavenleigh said:


> Ok now comes my time to bow out from these forums,
> I have enjoyed my time and made many many friends along the way but unfortunately i have also come across some people who are not only self opinionated, self obsessed and self involved but also verge on the point of being bigoted!.
> I have no problem at all with people having their own opinion, and i think i have made this clear from the start, but there are certain people on this forum who are just out to get peoples backs up.
> Good on all who see it and stand aside 'letting them hang themselves'. Me personally i'd rather roll out, then tie the noose!
> ...


Sorry to hear this HL - I've enjoyed your company and hearing about your girls. Please don't go - I hope I didn't come across as elitist I just wouldn't want to buy a pedigree without papers personally, but I do have a lovely moggy too. There are always threads that get someone riled, and normally I stay away from them because the other threads are woth staying for. Hopefully, you will decide to stay and tell us all about your girls and their kittens. Try to let the bad stuff ride and concentrate on the good stuff.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

It happens..........all cats get ill you know not just pedigrees and I see more moggies in a vets waiting room than I see peds.

You basically answered your own question there.

A breeder gave you a pedigree cat with registration papers for free and you were also told of the cats illness so you were aware at the time of what you were taking on. You can hardly complain about that one. If it had been a BYB then you wouldn't have had the cat for free......you would have paid the going rate and you wouldn't even have been told about the illness.

Just look through a lot of the old threads on here and you will come across plenty of cases that fit the bill.


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

this thread has been closed for moderating as we have had complaints it may be re-opened once I have had the chance to look through all the pages,

thank you


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