# Labrador can't go off lead :(



## eloises05 (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi everyone,

My lab is a rescue dog and all that was known of her history is that she is a stray from Ireland! 
We have had her for five years and she is perfect in the house and lovely to walk on lead.
However, off lead is a nightmare. If she is a few metres ahead and I call her back she will come back to me as good as gold! However, she will suddenly decide to take herself off and ignore me and come back when she would like. Unfortunately we have now moved to the countryside where there is nowhere secure for her to run in and due to her recall as well as the fact she has a hunter instinct and will chase anything apart from another dog, she can no longer be let off lead as I just cannot risk losing her or her killing something as I would obviously be devastated if this happened.
My other dogs are brilliant and can be let off lead, but my lab can't and I just feel so sorry for her because I can't figure out how to get her to listen to me .
She knows her commands such as leave, stay, come, sit, down etc - but when she decides to take herself off this goes out of the window. I'm thinking of trying a long lead or something but I have tried and tried to change her but it seems in built - especially the hunting, its as if she was a failed hunting dog or something 

Any help or advice would be much appreciated because I am feeling deflated 
thanks


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## Hayley22 (May 12, 2013)

How old? I would get a long line so she can have some freedom yet is under control. If she does not have a reliable recall then you can not risk her being off lead. 

Start off in the house with no distractions, use a whistle and treat, keep repeating. She will associate the whistle with food. Then add a command such as come and can also add a hand signal, then move out to garden etc with more distractions. Some people will feed the dog and blow the whistle, this way when the whistle is blown the dog associates it with food and comes. Make sure you keep the training consistent and be patient, if she doesnt respond straight away then take a step back. Make sure she is on a long line untill you feel comfortable to remove it. 

Some dogs just can not go off lead, unfortunately its just the way it is. But i would defintaley go back to basics. I have done this method with mine and really worked. Make it fun, as your walking along just ask her to come and give lots of treats, throw treats, so she thinks its a game and you have the food. 

Keep working at it, recall is a hard command to teach with some dogs.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

eloises05 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> My lab is a rescue dog and all that was known of her history is that she is a stray from Ireland!
> We have had her for five years and she is perfect in the house and lovely to walk on lead.
> ...


If she has always done it then she will simply, because she can and knows she can. Shes learned or at the moment that she doesnt have to listen and can do her own thing and you cant do anything about it.

Best way is probably to go back to complete basics in recall. I would have her on a long line, while you are doing it, that way she cant take off and do as she likes. You will have the control not her and if she dosnt listen you can reel her in. Other option to a long line would be a flexi giant that has the wide webbing all the way through and for large heavy dogs.

If shes food orientated test her out with some high value treats, cheese, chicken, hotdogs, sausages, and anthing liver based usually goes down well. Find ones two or so she really goes mad over and keep those exclusively for recall training. Try to find toys she really goes mad over too if you can, some its tennis balls, others its furry and/or squeaky toys, if you can find really exciting toys too so much the better.

If she has got totally deaf to her name or the command come or whatever you use try something else, a whilstle can help sometimes as it makes more of an impact. You start at home with the whistle indoors, and literally just walk around and for every whistle blow immediately treat she should follow you about. When she does that after a few sessions, try it when shes in the garden occupied by sniffing stand by the back door and whistle and treat when she comes when thats ok then try it from inside the house when she is in the garden again and treat when she comes. When she is Ok with that start to use it outside with the long line.

You need to start calling her back periodcially throughout the walk and as soon as you see her start to wander or begin to get distracted. Get her to come using the whistle or a new command, at first reel her in if you have too, but when shes back treat. Always send off again with go play after shes come back and you have treated until next recall again. Many people make the mistake of giving them free reign and only calling back when its time to go home and put the lead on. They get wise to it, but by calling them back periodically and then sending away with go play again, they dont know when they are going home and get less suspicious. Another common mistake is trying to run after them or going to them to catch them and/or put the lead on, they get wise too this too, and realise they dont have to listen and can take off and ignore you, and they also realise they can outrun you, but having the long line on through training stops all this.

Mix up your rewards too, sometimes the treats, others throw a ball a few times, or play with a tuggy or a squeaky toy. You can call and rn in the other direction to make it a chase me game, or hide and reward when they find you.
This keeps you interesting and them more curious and interested usually as they dont know what rewards they are going to get. Always though after send off with go play again until its finally time to turn back home.

Once she is realiable on the long line and coming back after a good while, you can then move to dropping the long line and using it as a drag line. Do all the same things as before, if she misses a recall you can then grab or stand on it and stop her running off and doing as she likes still. Again when you have had many sessions like this and shes realiable you can then go to the next stage.

Its preferable usually to start letting them off in more enclosed less interesting areas at first with lesser distractions to test them out. Then when you know they will come back then you can build up slowly to more open areas and more distractions as she passes each test and you now she will return. Dont know how feasible this wil be though as I notice you said you have oved to the country?

You may find through the training you will have to take a step or two back here and there to the previous stage or stages, if she starts to miss a recall and mess about, go back to the drag line or even holding the long line as and when if you have too. Often you may find you have to do it when you start to explore wider and more interesting areas for awhile so she cant get back to bad habits before moving forward again.


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## eloises05 (Jun 28, 2013)

Thank you very much for your replies, I really appreciate the advice! I will order a long line and a whistle today.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

*Why can't I get a reliable recall?*

'Come' is no harder to train than any other behaviour but in real life it has a huge number of criteria that have to be raised one at a time in order to guarantee success.

Often when puppies are brought home to their new owners this is the first time they have ever been separated from their dam and siblings and so they naturally attach themselves to their new family by following them about everywhere. Owners find this quite attractive and wrongly assume that this trait will continue into adolescence/adulthood, whatever the circumstances. A dangerous trap to fall into…

At some point in time, usually from around 6 - 10 months, depending on the individual, "Velcro" dog will morph into "Bog off" dog (this is especially true of a breed that has been developed to exhibit a high degree of initiative). This is the time when owners suddenly realize that their dog will not recall when it sees another dog/person etc. Not only is this inconvenient but potentially dangerous as the dog could be at risk of injury from a car/train/another dog etc.

*How and when do I start with a puppy?*

My advice is to prepare for this inevitability from the day you take your puppy home. If you are lucky the breeder will have started this process whilst still in the nest by conditioning the puppies to a whistle blown immediately before putting the food bowl down during weaning.

Dogs learn by cause and effect ie sound of whistle = food. If you, the new owner, continue this from the moment your puppy arrives you will lay down strong foundations for the future.

By using the whistle in association with meals/food you need to establish the following criteria:

• Come from across the room. 
• Come from out of sight 
• Come no matter who calls
• Come even if you are busy doing something else
• Come even if you are asleep. 
• Come even if you are playing with something/someone else
• Come even if you are eating

Once this goal has been realized in the house, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the garden.

Once this goal has been realized in the garden, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the park/field etc.

To train this, or any other behaviour:

1. Make it easy for the dog to get it right
2. Provide sufficient reward

Do not expect a dog to come away from distractions in the park until you have trained it to come to you in the park when no diversions are around. Be realistic and manage your expectations; your sphere of influence/control over your dog may be only 20m to begin with, therefore do not hazard a guess that the dog, at this level of training, will successfully recall from 50m or more away. Distance, like every other criterion, must be built up over time.

Some simple rules to follow when training the recall:

• Whistle/signal/call only once (why train the dog to deliberately ignore your first command?)
• Do not reinforce slow responses for the dog coming eventually after it has cocked its leg, sniffed the tree etc (you get what you train!)
• If you know that the dog will not come back to you in a certain situation, go and get him rather than risk teaching him that he can ignore you. (If you have followed the programme correctly you will never put your dog in a position to fail).
• Practise recalling the dog, putting him on the lead for a few seconds, reinforce with food/toy etc and immediately release the dog. Do this several times during a walk etc so that the dog does not associate a recall with going on the lead and ending the walk or being put on the lead with the cessation of fun.
• Eventually, when the behaviour is very strong, alternate rewards ie verbal praise, physical praise, food, toy and also vary the "value" of the rewards, sometimes a plain piece of biscuit, sometimes a piece of cooked liver etc so that you become a walking slot machine (and we all know how addictive gambling can be)!

In my experience recall training should be consistent and relentless for the first two years of a dog's life before it can be considered truly dependable. You should look on it as a series of incremental steps, rather than a single simple behaviour, and something that will require lifelong maintenance.

*What about an older or rescue dog?*

Follow the same programme as outlined above however for recalcitrant dogs that have received little or no training, I would recommend dispensing with the food bowl and feeding a dog only during recalls to establish a strong behaviour quickly.

Your training should be over several sessions a day, which means you can avoid the risk of bloat. It is essential that the dog learns that there will be consequences for failure as well as success.

Divide the day's food ration up into small bags (between10 - 30), if the dog recalls first time, it gets food, if it does not, you can make a big show of saying "too bad" and disposing of that portion of food (either throw it away or put aside for the next day).

Again, raise the criteria slowly as outlined in puppy training.

Hunger is very motivating!

For those of you who believe it unfair/unhealthy to deprive a dog of its full daily ration, not having a reliable recall is potentially life threatening for the dog ……………

*How do I stop my dog chasing joggers/cyclists/skateboarders/rabbits/deer?*

Chasing something that is moving is a management issue. Do not put your dog in a position where it can make a mistake. Again you need to start training from a pup but if you have already allowed your dog to learn and practise this behaviour you may need to rely on a trailing line until your dog is desensitised to these distractions and knows that listening to you results in a great reinforcement. Chasing is a behaviour much better never learned as it is naturally reinforcing to the dog, which makes it hard for you to offer a better reinforcement. If you want to have a bombproof recall while your dog is running away from you then use the following approach:

Your goal is to train so that your dog is totally used to running away from you at top speed, and then turning on a sixpence to run toward you when you give the recall cue.

You need to set up the training situation so that you have total control over the triggers. For this you will need to gain the co-operation of a helper. If you have a toy crazy dog you can practice this exercise by throwing a toy away from the dog towards someone standing 30 or 40 feet away. At the instant the toy is thrown, recall your dog! If the dog turns toward you, back up several steps quickly, creating even more distance between the you and the toy and then throw another toy in the opposite direction (same value as one thrown)..

If the dog ignores you and continues toward the thrown object, your "helper" simply picks the ball up and ignores dog. When dog eventually returns (which it will because it's getting no reinforcement from anyone or anything), praise only. Pretty soon the dog will start to respond to a recall off a thrown toy. You will need to mix in occasions the toy is thrown and the dog is allowed to get it ie you do NOT recall if you want to make sure it does not lose enthusiasm for retrieving.

For the food obsessed dog, you can get your helper to wave a food bowl with something the dog loves in it and then recall the dog as soon as you let it go to run towards the food; again if the dog ignores you and continues to the food, your helper simply ensures the dog cannot access the food and start again. (It is extremely important that the helper does not use your dog's name to call it for obvious reasons).

Gradually increase the difficulty of the recall by letting the dog get closer and closer to the toy/food. Praise the moment the dog turns away from the toy/food in the early stages of training. Don't wait until the dog returns to you; the dog must have instant feedback.

Once the dog is fluent at switching directions in the middle of a chase, try setting up the situation so that it is more like real life. Have someone ride a bike/run/skate past. (It is unrealistic to factor in deer/rabbits however if your training is thorough the dog will eventually be conditioned to return to you whatever the temptation in most contexts).

Until your training gets to this level, don't let the dog off-lead in a situation in which you don't have control over the chase triggers. Don't set the dog up to fail, and don't allow it to rehearse the problem behaviour. Remember, every time a dog is able to practise an undesirable behaviour it will get better at it!

Most people do not play with toys correctly and therefore the dog is not interested in them or, if it gets them, fails to bring it back to the owner.

Play the two ball game, once you have a dog ball crazy. Have two balls the same, throw one to the left, when the dog gets it, call him like crazy waving the next ball; as he comes back throw the other ball to the right and keep going left right so that YOU are the centre of the game and the dog gets conditioned to return to you for the toy. Once this behaviour is established you can then introduce the cues for out and then make control part of the game ie the game is contingent on the dog sitting and then progress to a sequence of behaviours.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

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When: Saturday 28 Sep 2013

Where: Otterbourne Village Hall, Otterbourne, Winchester SO21 2ET

Details: 10am- 4pm registration from 9.30am. £40 per person, lunch included

Throwing a ball for a game of chase is an enjoyable and rewarding experience for many owners and their dogs. For other owners canine chase behaviour turns into a nightmare when their dog chases cyclists, cars or sheep. When their dogs choose what to chase it can compromise owners financially, cause the target severe injury or even death, and threaten the life of the dog. This seminar looks at the reasons for the problem, the more effective solutions and how to control the behaviour.

David Ryan followed 26 years as a police dog handler and Home Office accredited training instructor with a postgraduate Diploma in Companion Animal Behaviour Counselling, with distinction, from Southampton University, an internationally recognised centre of excellence for animal behaviour studies. In 2008 he was certificated as a Clinical Animal Behaviourist by the prestigious Association for the Study of Animal Behaviour.

He was chair of the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors from 2009 to March 2012 and currently works as a companion animal behaviour consultant, being an independently vetted member of the UK Register of Expert Witnesses since 2008.

David has appeared in the internationally scheduled television series Crimefighters focusing on his remarkable and fascinating work with police dogs, and as a guest on the BBC 4 programme Its only a theory, discussing how dogs have evolved to bark. His dog behaviour articles have appeared in publications as diverse as the Daily Telegraph, Womans Own, Your Dog and Veterinary Times.

He has been invited at various times to lecture to the Companion Animal Behaviour Therapy Study Group, BSc Animal Behaviour Students at Bishop Burton College and Myerscough College, and Pet Rescue/rehoming Centres, including Battersea Dogs and Cats Home, Merseyside Dogs Trust and Wood Green Animal Shelter. He is currently a guest lecturer on Newcastle Universitys MSc in Applied Animal Behaviour and Welfare.

Davids unique blend of practical experience and theoretical knowledge of canine behaviour fuel his particular interest in inherited predatory motor patterns and the lengths to which pets will go to find a way to express them, usually despite their owners best efforts

Events | Dog Events| Winchester | Positive Training for Canines

*Books*

Line Training for Dogs
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Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts 
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Stop! How to control predatory Chasing in Dogs
by David Ryan

Teach your Dog to Come When Called
By Erica Peachey

Training your Dog to Come When Called
By John Rogerson

Total Recall
By Pippa Mattinson

*DVDs*

Line Training for Dogs
By Monika Gutman

Really Reliable Recall 
By Leslie Nelson

Training the Recall
By Michael Ellis

Your clever dog: Getting your dog to come when called 
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Does your dog whizz back to you as soon as you call his name?

Can you call him to you even when there are other dogs or distractions? Teaching your dog to come to you when you call is the cornerstone of training and the gateway to allowing him more freedom in the park.

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The pack contains: A clicker, long line (worth £10), training manual, instructional DVD: 55 mins approx running time including Bonus trick, Bonus Training Session, Intro to Clicker Training, Q & A with Sarah

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*Website articles:*

How to use a long line properly here (under information to download)

www.dogspsyche.co.uk

http://www.apdt.co.uk/content/files/training-tips/RECALL.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/reliable_recall.pdf

Deposits into the Perfect Recall Account

List of Reinforcers

http://www.clickerdogs.com/distracti...yourrecall.htm

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/20...call-collapse/

How to Create a Motivating Toy

http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_f...e recall.pdf

Teaching Come « Ahimsa Dog Blog

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-...y-dog-chasing/

Train a

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/te..._to_you_on_cue

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/be...me-when-called


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## Debxan (Jan 9, 2011)

A long lead is a good idea and with a Labrador a treat every time the dog comes back will help - most labs are food obsessed in my experience!


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Thanks for those two posts SDH and Smokeybear! I've read that before SB but as I now need it with Teddy it's very useful!



Debxan said:


> most labs are food obsessed in my experience!


Oh yes! It's the Lab's that find my treat bag before any other dog lol!


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## eloises05 (Jun 28, 2013)

Thanks everyone,

She is food obsessed but once she's off she's off no matter what tasty treat I have!

I'm hoping the long line and whistle will arrive tomorrow


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Ohhhhh you're describing Maisie when she arrived  BUT after a lot of hard work and some great help from a dog training friend we've made fantastic progress 

She too is a predatory chaser - deer, rabbits, birds, small dogs (in particular black ones), cats, sheep , cows, horses ..... need I go on 

I'd got to the same point as you and was despairing that I'd ever be able to let her off lead

Don't get me wrong - she's far from perfect  and I have to be very selective where I let her off lead, but she does get off every day - she is still absolutely obsessed with birds and I honestly don't think I'll ever change that  and I always make sure she's on lead when near livestock but things are 1000% times better than this time last year 

We went back to basics - she was allowed off lead (in a safe place where I could keep an eye on her & where there wasn't anything for her to chase) and I called her back / rewarded every couple of mins

We did that for a while and then progressed to "normal" walks - again, always selective where she's off. She does tend to get more & more hyped up as we go (and actively starts looking for things to chase), so if she starts this, I put her back on lead for 5-10 mins until she's totally calmed down and this is great for us

Walking on the beach is a lot easier than in the woods so we try to do that a lot - even if she does chase something (usually birdshmy there's nowhere for her to disappear to, so I know she's safe whereas she hears things in the woods & disappears ..... and I constantly have to keep my eyes peeled for anything she may go after (and grab her quickly!)

We still have the odd hiccup - the other day I was in the woods & she spied a deer before me and was off ..... I could see her flying down one side of a fence and the deer the other  ...... they were totally out of sight and it was horrible as I wasn't in a part of the woods I'm familiar with (and won't go there again!) but she did come back ....

She'd obviously been trained to the gun at some point as if we hear one, she knows what it is (and was actually placed in gundog trials) - but I suspect her high prey drive is why she didn't progress further with this

We've been working with whistle training and _most _ of the time she will come back to it - as long as I get her before she goes into the ..... trance (you'll know what I mean) BUT it does def help and part breakthrough / break it so I'd def recommend trying it

I also always carry a ball (like many she is _very_ ball orientated) - we play with it as we're walking - but it's also a great distraction should she start looking around for things / see something really far away etc

Sorry that's long winded, just wanted to offer some hope - it takes time and a lot of patience and really choosing where they get to go off lead ... best of luck



smokeybear said:


> *Courses*
> 
> How to Change Predatory Chase Behaviour in Dogs with David Ryan
> When: Saturday 28 Sep 2013
> ...


Wish I was close enough to go to that!


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## eloises05 (Jun 28, 2013)

Thanks LilyLass!

It sounds like we have two very similar dogs haha!

Unfortunately Tilly is not into toys in the slightest, never has been.
Where I live I cannot find anywhere 'safe' and enclosed to let her off and trust her because I do live in the middle of nowhere. I have like I said ordered a whistle and long line so I can see if I can get an improvement at all. But it is reassuring to know that you have made a lot of progress so hopefully I should be able to also.

Thanks again!


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Fingers crossed - I just wanted to add that Maisie was coming up 6 when I got her (now coming up 7), so it is possible to do this even with a middle aged dog


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## eloises05 (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi guys,

The whistle thing is a no go, been practising today and yesterday and she is not interested in it at all. She hears it but still just sits there looking at me from a distance. I may be trying to introduce it wrong, but because she knows the 'come' command (when she wants to anyway) maybe she is confused because she has never used this before?
I began with just rewarding her when I blew the whistle and she noticed right in front of me and repeated, then tried a few steps away etc and its not working 
Maybe if I just try her normal come command on a long line and take it very slow again?

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

eloises05 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> The whistle thing is a no go, been practising today and yesterday and she is not interested in it at all. She hears it but still just sits there looking at me from a distance. I may be trying to introduce it wrong, but because she knows the 'come' command (when she wants to anyway) maybe she is confused because she has never used this before?
> I began with just rewarding her when I blew the whistle and she noticed right in front of me and repeated, then tried a few steps away etc and its not working
> ...


For the first few sessions you just start with having her next to you and everytime you blow just immediately treat, she should get interested so that as you move she will stay with you in anticipation of the treats so you just walk around and continue to whistle and just treat at first.

What treats are you using they need to be high value ones.


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## eloises05 (Jun 28, 2013)

Thank you,
That is all I have been doing and with bits of cheese or the doggy choc drops.
I will continue and try to be even more patient !


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I would look into the book Total Recall if you want an easy, step by step guide to training a recall to a whistle. It's worked brilliantly for my dog.


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