# Family Trees.



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I have been researching my family tree and have found it to be very interesting and have managed to go back 6 generations (including me) down my dad's side of the family and I am a bit annoyed I cannot go back any further but it is due to GRO records only going back to 1864 in Northern Ireland. My mum's side (from Reading) was a bit more interesting down her father's side and I managed to go back 9 Generations (past 1671) and her mum's (from Buckinghamshire and London) side of the family only went back 6 generations but was interested in finding out one of her ancestors was chancellor of the Exchequer.

An interesting fact I found was my ancestors down both sides of my mother's family tree lived long lives oldest being 102 but down my dad's side the oldest being 71. All of my dad's side of the family tree came from Downpatrick in Northern Ireland (except my Grandad's family: my dad, uncle and several aunties) and all worked as labourers at the same flax mill or as argicultural labourers on the farm adjacent to the mill until 1940 when my Grandad moved to County Antrim aged 20.

I am just a bit frustrated that I have now exhausted all family tree lines but found it interesting to do but wish I could find more relatives to read up on.

Has anyone else researched their family tree and how far back did you manage to go?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@rottiepointerhouse has.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> @rottiepointerhouse has.


I have found the whole initial research very interesting. Of course perhaps I should research all the families that married into my ancestors families and see how far I go. I know that the male ancestor in my mum's mum's family (if that makes sense) married a Lady of a Manor (she kept her title and her surname as hyphenated with my ancestors surname) from what I have researched and he became Chancellor of the Exchequer. These descendants came from Tallow in Buckinghamshire which is a far contrast from my dad's side of the family who were Labourers in Downpatrick.

It is so interesting reading up on your families past if you want to do it.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Ive done a bit but another relative did my mum's mums side of the family back several hundred years , they were farmers and the like, in Cornwall and Devon . My dads mum was from up north and his dads from Berkshire , no one of any importance .
It really is important to get information from your older relatives to start with .

Amazing that your relative lived to 102 ! That must have been very rare . I'm impressed with the lady of the manor relative . my mums relative was a rear admiral and another one moved from Cornwall and worked on the docks at 14 years and then drowned in the Thames . poor lad . This was in Victorian times .


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Its one of my main interests besides my dogs and plant based nutrition  If boring old work didn't take up so much of my time I would spend hours every day on it - there is always more to find out. Do you look at siblings and children of the siblings too? I find I can go off at a tangent really easily if I find something interesting about a cousin 4 times removed :Joyful I spent about a year looking into my Mum's Mum's side of the family - got back to the 1700's, they were mainly agricultural labourers but fascinating - I wrote an essay about them and won a competition in a family history society magazine. There were lots of coincidences such as my great great granny being born in the workhouse which later became a small hospital and I was born there just short of 100 years later, there was imprisonment with hard labour for embezzlement, more illegitimate births than you would think possible (9 to one sister) given this was pre welfare state and one sister with syphilis who lost 5 of her 6 children to the disease as babies. I could talk about it forever :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

What hard lives people had back then , My great gran on my mum's side died of the Consumption in late Victorian times when my gran was a child . My Great grand dad married again and had another family .


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I did, years ago, and meant to keep expanding it, but Ancestry.com is really expensive!

I also got cross that it went back to Noah and Mrs Noah and then Adam and Eve. Given I'm not religious this just annoyed me so much. Then again, I can't really see how it can go back that far. I've got a bunch of monarchs, a catholic saint, Charlemagne, Boudicca (that's the one I'm most excited about) and Marc Antony, but from one of his pre-Cleopatra wives


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

Its not something i care about but my sister did a fair bit of ours, turns out we have a bit of Gypsy a lot of Scottish (we kinda guessed that with a name like Shanks) a bit of everything else and a great great etc. Uncle who got sent to Australia for sheep stealing LOL


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Its one of my main interests besides my dogs and plant based nutrition  If boring old work didn't take up so much of my time I would spend hours every day on it - there is always more to find out. Do you look at siblings and children of the siblings too? I find I can go off at a tangent really easily if I find something interesting about a cousin 4 times removed :Joyful I spent about a year looking into my Mum's Mum's side of the family - got back to the 1700's, they were mainly agricultural labourers but fascinating - I wrote an essay about them and won a competition in a family history society magazine. There were lots of coincidences such as my great great granny being born in the workhouse which later became a small hospital and I was born there just short of 100 years later, there was imprisonment with hard labour for embezzlement, more illegitimate births than you would think possible (9 to one sister) given this was pre welfare state and one sister with syphilis who lost 5 of her 6 children to the disease as babies. I could talk about it forever :Hilarious:Hilarious


Your family tree sounds interesting. Like you I could talk all night with the information I have found out about my family tree but don't want to as I may bore a few people. 

I think I will go into the siblings and children of the ancestors I have and see where I go.

I noticed a few of my families ancestors married 2 or 3 times and their ex wives remarried and had large families. Doing some more research tomorrow as I haven't done any for two weeks now.

I have been getting birth certificates, baptism records, census records, marriage certificates, military records, death certificates, wills, probate documents as these documents tend to give snippets of information to research.

@MiffyMoo my family records don't go as far back as Noah or Adam and Eve you're privileged to be able to go back that far :Hilarious the only records I remember they kept back then in Noah's days was written or drawn in stone  Which archives are these stones in :Hilarious? Did you discover any Egyptian Hieroglyphics in your family tree research? :Hilarious:Hilarious On a serious note I agree with you that ancestry.com can be pretty expensive.

@kimthecat I did find two of my mums families ancestors served in the British Navy stationed in Australia and America and a few of the children died within a year of birth which is sad. I have been asking my dad questions and will be asking my Grandmother who is 89 years old and as fit as a fiddle some questions so will be going down her side of the family tree as well. I may even try Parish Records in Northern Ireland and see if I can uncover more family ancestors.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

stockwellcat. said:


> Your family tree sounds interesting. Like you I could talk all night with the information I have found out about my family tree but don't want to as I may bore a few people.
> 
> I think I will go into the siblings and children of the ancestors I have and see where I go.
> 
> ...


Yeah, as I said, not terribly sure how it managed to go back that far


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat. said:


> Your family tree sounds interesting. Like you I could talk all night with the information I have found out about my family tree but don't want to as I may bore a few people.
> 
> I think I will go into the siblings and children of the ancestors I have and see where I go.
> 
> ...


I've managed to find out a fair bit from old newspapers too, when I was writing my essay for instance I knew the family had obviously fallen on hard times, my 4 times great grandmother and one of her sisters were in an out of the workhouse twice a year (often to give birth to yet another child) but I couldn't really understand why as their father was showing on each census as an agricultural labourer in work, then right near the essay deadline we suddenly discovered a workhouse admission for the whole family apart from father and the reason given was poverty due to head of household being in prison. That got me and a new distant cousin I met through my research searching and he found the newspaper cuttings which told us it was because he had embezzled his employer several times over the year and the employer finally had enough and reported him to the police, he got 6 months hard labour and of course they lost their home which was tied to his job. On my MIL's line we knew her parents had lost their 1st 3 children and found a newspaper report of the inquest into one little girl of 7 who was knocked down by a tram on her way to school and died before reaching hospital from head injuries. They had to endure a lot of sadness in those days.


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

My MIL always went on about her granny being a french bareback rider in the circus but she was abit batty and later developed alzhiemers so we didnt take much notice..
When my daughter wanted to reserch her fathers side of the family we traced back to Belgium and using a website for circus families I found his great great gradfather who was a juggler and tightrope walker in the circus and a billing for his wife who had nearly the same name as my MIL... She rode horses bareback and jumped through hoops of fire...Turns out MIL had got the generations wrong but the rest was true enough!


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

I've tried, but due to many generations on both sides of my family tree being Northern Irish, I couldn't get any further than my great grandparents on both sides :Shifty

My family also have a very annoying habit of putting the "known by" name in the middle so I spent a lot of time researching complete strangers! I'm Ellen Annette (known as Annette) My Grandfathers were Joseph Henry (known as Harry) Thomas James (known as Jimmy) Very frustrating and confusing.

My best guess is that I come from a long line of secret service agents who didn't want to be traced :Hilariousompus:Lurking


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> I've tried, but due to many generations on both sides of my family tree being Northern Irish, I couldn't get any further than my great grandparents on both sides :Shifty
> 
> My family also have a very annoying habit of putting the "known by" name in the middle so I spent a lot of time researching complete strangers! I'm Ellen Annette (known as Annette) My Grandfathers were Joseph Henry (known as Harry) Thomas James (known as Jimmy) Very frustrating and confusing.
> 
> My best guess is that I come from a long line of secret service agents who didn't want to be traced :Hilariousompus:Lurking


Same here. My maternal side are all northern Irish so I cannot trace back further than my own grandparents.

But doesn't help when my grandad doesn't remember people's names. His sister for example emigrated to Canada but he doesn't know her real name. He has suggested several names but it's none of those 

My grandmothers family were catholic and very poor. My grandfathers family were protestant and land owners ..... they ran away to get married and my grandfather was disowned most of his life.

Then my grandmother's sister married my grandfathers brother. After a few years of marriage and a few children she just vanished. To this day no one has ever heard from her, even her own children. My nan always swore he had killed her .....

So I do kinda understand why no one ever wanted to talk about family when we were growing up. And although my grandad is still with us at 92, he doesn't remember who we are, let alone anything else.

We visit my mums cousins back in Ireland quite often but everyone always says the same "ahhh leave it be" no one else seems remotely interested but me. Quite sad really.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Same here. My maternal side are all northern Irish so I cannot trace back further than my own grandparents.
> 
> But doesn't help when my grandad doesn't remember people's names. His sister for example emigrated to Canada but he doesn't know her real name. He has suggested several names but it's none of those
> 
> ...


Sounds fascinating. Have you thought about hiring a researcher to see if you can get a lead on any of them?


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Why is there such a dearth of records in NI? It's sad that you're all pretty much hitting a brick wall


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sounds fascinating. Have you thought about hiring a researcher to see if you can get a lead on any of them?


I did briefly years ago but wasn't sure how expensive it would be.



MiffyMoo said:


> Why is there such a dearth of records in NI? It's sad that you're all pretty much hitting a brick wall


A fire  in 1922 the records office had a massive fire containing a large majority of the records.

The only way now really of searching is to look at the church records. You need to find the church and visit each one.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> I did briefly years ago but wasn't sure how expensive it would be.
> 
> A fire  in 1922 the records office had a massive fire containing a large majority of the records.
> 
> The only way now really of searching is to look at the church records. You need to find the church and visit each one.


Oh that's terrible!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> I did briefly years ago but wasn't sure how expensive it would be.
> 
> A fire  in 1922 the records office had a massive fire containing a large majority of the records.
> 
> The only way now really of searching is to look at the church records. You need to find the church and visit each one.


It varies so worth shopping around, I hired one based at a library and it was about £30 per hour I think. I used her to access some of the records that are not available on line such as the workhouse records which some areas have on line but typically mine didn't.

Quite a lot of records were destroyed before the WW11 I believe - there are a couple of inquests in my family - one suicide in particular I would like to get inquest records for but apparently a lot of the archives were destroyed, or so I'm told.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> Oh that's terrible!


Yeah kinda makes it hard to find much. Although it's always been said the British destroyed Irish records before the fire as some sort of cover up. Who knows!

To be fair I signed up the ancestry.com about 15 years ago maybe, after my Nan died. It would have upset her too much doing it while she was alive due to the way she was treated by my grandads family ..... so might try again and see if any other records have been submitted.

My understanding was they were trying to get churches to donate records but as many of them are tiny little parish churches I'm not sure how much they'll have progressed.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> It varies so worth shopping around, I hired one based at a library and it was about £30 per hour I think. I used her to access some of the records that are not available on line such as the workhouse records which some areas have on line but typically mine didn't.
> 
> Quite a lot of records were destroyed before the WW11 I believe - there are a couple of inquests in my family - one suicide in particular I would like to get inquest records for but apparently a lot of the archives were destroyed, or so I'm told.


I'd probably need to pay for someone in Northern Ireland who can toddle off round the churches really. I always said it's something I'd do myself when I retired and I had the time.

I think the younger generation are going to find everything do much easier if they want to research, everything's online now!


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

It's true records where lost in WW2 so records are very hard to get hold of. There are some surviving parish records at churches if you know where to look.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Yeah kinda makes it hard to find much. Although it's always been said the British destroyed Irish records before the fire as some sort of cover up. Who knows!
> 
> To be fair I signed up the ancestry.com about 15 years ago maybe, after my Nan died. It would have upset her too much doing it while she was alive due to the way she was treated by my grandads family ..... so might try again and see if any other records have been submitted.
> 
> My understanding was they were trying to get churches to donate records but as many of them are tiny little parish churches I'm not sure how much they'll have progressed.


Might be worth you taking out a free trial with FindmyPast as I think they might have more Irish records

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/Pay?isfreetrialrequest=true


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> I'd probably need to pay for someone in Northern Ireland who can toddle off round the churches really. I always said it's something I'd do myself when I retired and I had the time.
> 
> I think the younger generation are going to find everything do much easier if they want to research, everything's online now!


There are some volunteers that do this and they charge a nominal small fee but they will need to know what churches to go and research for you. I will try and find the link.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat. said:


> It's true records where lost in WW2 so records are very hard to get hold of. There are some surviving parish records at churches if you know where to look.


I've got most of the basic records like births/deaths/marriages that I need but would love to have time to go to the National Archives or even to local library to look at local newspaper archives in certain areas. Like @Westie Mum I keep telling myself I will have time when I retire.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

stockwellcat. said:


> It's true records where lost in WW2 so records are very hard to get hold of. There are some surviving parish records at churches if you know where to look.


It was the Irish Civil War


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Might be worth you taking out a free trial with FindmyPast as I think they might have more Irish records
> 
> https://www.findmypast.co.uk/Pay?isfreetrialrequest=true


Thank you. I might just sign up! Will have to dig out my paperwork of bits I did find to see if I can find anything else.



stockwellcat. said:


> There are some volunteers that do this and they charge a nominal small fee but they will need to know what churches to go and research for you. I will try and find the link.


Really ? Oh wow, that would be great!



rottiepointerhouse said:


> Like @Westie Mum I keep telling myself I will have time when I retire.


We can't be alone in this thinking, places must be full of pensioners who now have the time!


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I've got most of the basic records like births/deaths/marriages that I need but would love to have time to go to the National Archives or even to local library to look at local newspaper archives in certain areas. Like @Westie Mum I keep telling myself I will have time when I retire.


The Northern Irish National Archives are available online from 1821 to 1911. The next archives available are 1936/1937 due to records being destroyed in WW2.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat. said:


> The Northern Irish National Archives are available online from 1821 to 1911. The next archives available are 1936/1937 due to records being destroyed in WW2.


Do you mean the census? I don't know anything about Northern Ireland as I don't think I have any ancestors from there but the England Census from 1841 - 1911 are available on line along with the special 1939 Register which I think is only on Find my Past but could be wrong.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Do you mean the census? I don't know anything about Northern Ireland as I don't think I have any ancestors from there but the England Census from 1841 - 1911 are available on line along with the special 1939 Register which I think is only on Find my Past but could be wrong.


You are right about the census. Sorry about that.

@Westie Mum I will put the link on here when I find where I saved it to.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Just reading this article and it made me think of this thread and those dead ends where you just can't find someone. One of my 4 x great granny's children who was born in the workhouse and spent most of her life in it (she was recorded on a census as being an imbecile) just disappeared, no death record. She was one of the reasons I hired the researcher but she couldn't find her either as she said the records were contradictory.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41200949

I also found a relative who died here in 1894, the names some of these institutions had back then are of course shocking today such as this one "The Metro Imbecile Asylum & Schools Darenth"

http://ezitis.myzen.co.uk/darenthpark.html


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Might be worth you taking out a free trial with FindmyPast as I think they might have more Irish records
> 
> https://www.findmypast.co.uk/Pay?isfreetrialrequest=true


Signed up, found my Nan on her marriage certificate ..... although we've always known the physically copy we have is "wrong"

They married in 1951 which the records confirm. Our certificate says 1950, although admittedly you can see where my nan changed it 

Her first child was born a few months after they married so a naive young woman thought changing the 1 to a 0 would be perfectly fine :Hilarious

However ...... there's certainly more information on findmypast to when I last looked on ancestry.com

I have found two birth records that are interesting. Same name and birth year as my nan.

One born in 1933, died in 1933.

One born in 1933 but in Inishowen not Cookstown where we were always told she was born. No death record for her mother though who died in childbirth (or do we were told) Or any records of the marriages/multiple wives her father had.

Now this is testing my memory. But someone, somewhere had a child that died and they named their next child the same. I'm wondering if this other Bridget was my Nans sister that died before her ....... doesn't give birth dates just registered periods but does have an option to order a photocopy, I'm guessing from the parish records. Not sure how much information they would hold.

But probably not. There are a lot of Maguire's in Ireland !

My grandad recently went into a care home. One of my aunts has the very old suitcase with all the photos, papers etc in. I'm meeting up with all the females of our family Tuesday for dinner as one of my cousins is getting married next weekend, a sort of family hen do for the old folk lol ...... I'll find out who has it all and arrange with them to go and collect it.

Be lovely if I can even find out a bit more


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Just reading this article and it made me think of this thread and those dead ends where you just can't find someone. One of my 4 x great granny's children who was born in the workhouse and spent most of her life in it (she was recorded on a census as being an imbecile) just disappeared, no death record. She was one of the reasons I hired the researcher but she couldn't find her either as she said the records were contradictory.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41200949
> 
> ...


It's truly quite shocking how things were years ago, just locked up and forgotten about


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Signed up, found my Nan on her marriage certificate ..... although we've always known the physically copy we have is "wrong"
> 
> They married in 1951 which the records confirm. Our certificate says 1950, although admittedly you can see where my nan changed it
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are making some progress. Not sure if you know but if you use the certificate ordering site GRO you can now check mother's maiden name on birth records before ordering.

One of the things that really shocked me was how many lies people told on official records, obviously they weren't expecting us nosy lot to come along years later with things like computers to be able to check up on dates in different parts of the country, they probably thought they were quite safe saying they were unmarried in Yorkshire if the ex had gone to live in Kent. We have a couple of cases of bigamy and even one child born where the mother's name on his birth certificate is the father's first wife and she can't possibly have been this child's mother as she only gave birth to a child a couple of months previously hundreds of miles away. On the census as well we have some saying they are married when they are not and a couple of my lot the women changed their surnames back and forth between their own and the surname of the man they were living with :Jawdrop No wonder sometimes they are hard to unravel and work out who is who.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sounds like you are making some progress. Not sure if you know but if you use the certificate ordering site GRO you can now check mother's maiden name on birth records before ordering.
> 
> One of the things that really shocked me was how many lies people told on official records, obviously they weren't expecting us nosy lot to come along years later with things like computers to be able to check up on dates in different parts of the country, they probably thought they were quite safe saying they were unmarried in Yorkshire if the ex had gone to live in Kent. We have a couple of cases of bigamy and even one child born where the mother's name on his birth certificate is the father's first wife and she can't possibly have been this child's mother as she only gave birth to a child a couple of months previously hundreds of miles away. On the census as well we have some saying they are married when they are not and a couple of my lot the women changed their surnames back and forth between their own and the surname of the man they were living with :Jawdrop No wonder sometimes they are hard to unravel and work out who is who.


Ha-ha they definitely weren't scared of being done for fraud back then !

I think now we all leave such an online presence that our ancestors will know a lot about us ...... I mean my great x 4 grand children may well be interested in coming on here and reading about Oscar's anal glands lol


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Sorry @Westie Mum I have lost the link I said I had.

You can search on NIDirect here: https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/# and you can order birth, marriages and deaths certificates for from £8.

I must admit I hit a snag due to a miss spelling or interpretation of my grandads mother's name being spelt wrong on his birth certificate.

Bear in mind more recent birth, marriage and death certificates are not searchable on NIDirect (I think it's because they are under 100 years old so the most recent ones you will find searchable are to 1917). I use this site alot in doing my research and then there's the national census http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/ census's available from 1821 to 1911

Also I done research by signing up for a free trial here and found a relative: https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk

I also had a free trial on ancestry and found others had done research as well touching on my family tree.

Sorry I cannot be much more use to your search.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

stockwellcat. said:


> Sorry @Westie Mum I have lost the link I said I had.
> 
> You can search on NIDirect here: https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/# and you can order birth, marriages and deaths certificates for from £8.
> 
> ...


That's ok, just remember me if you ever find it 

I've started bookmarking loads of links to refer back to, for when I have a rainy day to start looking through them ..... in the few hours I've spent today though, I've certainly come across new bits of info that were not available last time I looked, gotta be 2002/2003 time.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> That's ok, just remember me if you ever find it


I will post it on this thread if I find it again.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Westie Mum said:


> Same here. My maternal side are all northern Irish so I cannot trace back further than my own grandparents.
> 
> But doesn't help when my grandad doesn't remember people's names. His sister for example emigrated to Canada but he doesn't know her real name. He has suggested several names but it's none of those
> 
> ...


We had "a shameful secret" on my dads side of the family that died along with my late uncle as he was the last to know about it. I suspect it was probably a Catholic/Protestant marriage somewhere along the lines which would have been kept very hush hush in those days.

We also had a missing person.. although nobody killed him! 
I've told the story before so have quoted it below so as not to bore anyone who's already read it..


Nettles said:


> My great grandfather (my mums fathers, father) left home one day and never returned. My great grandmother received a letter from him some time later saying he wouldn't be returning. He left behind a wife, a son (my granda) and a daughter. Nobody in our family ever heard from him again.... Then around 2005-ish, my uncle (my mums brother) received a letter from a lady in New York. Her father was my great grandfather. After he'd left his wife and family here, he emigrated to the US, remarried and had 3 daughters. It was only after he died that his "new wife" discovered he had another wife and family in Northern Ireland.
> 
> The "new wife" then wrote to my great grandmother demanding she sell her house and send her half the money as it belonged to "her" husband and she and their 3 daughters were entitled to it. By then, my great grandmother had already passed away and my granda and granny where living in that house with their 4 young children (my aunt, 2 uncles and my mum) My granny opened the letter, read it and returned it, along with a nasty letter of her own. There was no more correspondence after that and my granny never told a soul about it and took the secret to her grave. My granda and his sister both died never having found out about the letters, or about their half sisters. In fact, nobody else knew about "the secret" until the new wife died (2004-ish) and her daughters found the letters amongst her belongings. By then, the three sisters were in their 50's and 60's and had never been told their father had another wife and family or that their mother had demanded money from them.
> 
> They came to visit our family a few months after they contacted my uncle. My granda died when I was just 2 weeks old and his sister died many years before that so I felt quite privileged to meet some of his family, even though he never knew they existed.





Westie Mum said:


> I'd probably need to pay for someone in Northern Ireland who can toddle off round the churches really.


If I could drive, I'd offer to toddle off round the churches on your behalf! If there's any in the Bangor area though, I'd be happy to try and help. There's also a couple of Belfast parishes who now have records online. I found some of my family on the baptismal register here.. https://www.fmpci.com/sites/default/files/FortwilliamParkBaptismalRegister.pdf
I'm sure they had a marriage register online too but can't seem to find it again.



rottiepointerhouse said:


> Might be worth you taking out a free trial with FindmyPast as I think they might have more Irish records
> 
> https://www.findmypast.co.uk/Pay?isfreetrialrequest=true


I found most of my info here after you recommended it last year. They had an Irish history offer on at the time which was fab!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> We had "a shameful secret" on my dads side of the family that died along with my late uncle as he was the last to know about it. I suspect it was probably a Catholic/Protestant marriage somewhere along the lines which would have been kept very hush hush in those days.
> 
> We also had a missing person.. although nobody killed him!
> I've told the story before so have quoted it below so as not to bore anyone who's already read it..
> ...


I've always thought it was so harsh that my grandad's family just disowned him, but then the catholic/protestant divide was so huge then. We are all catholic, my grandad converted to marry my nan 

Thats awful your great grandad just started a new life and forgot about his wife and child! But truely terrible his 2nd wife (who legally wouldnt have been his wife at all!) wanted the house - cheeky cow! Must have been strange for his children though, finding out all this after their parents had died.

Very kind of you to offer  miles away from Bangor though. My Nan was from Magherefelt and my Grandad was from Cookstown.

findmypast has been a lot more helpful than ancestory was - read something last night that said in 2015 there was a massive push for data to be uploaded so fingers crossed ill actually find something !

Dug out all my old paperwork from when i looked before. I remember the struggles now 

My grandads brother for example - was Charles Aloisius Morgan. Like your family they like to use their other names  ya know, keep it simple 

So Aloisius has always been wee-she (not sure how you'd spell it, thats how we say it lol)

His marriage to my Nan sister is registed twice - no idea why.

Once as Charles Aloisius Morgan to Ellen J Maguire

Then another entry as Aloisius C Morgan to Ellen J Maquire or Ramsey (Spouse's last name Ramsey Or Maguire)

I have no idea who Ramsey is, never heard that surname mentioned every before!

And just to add to the mix his death certificate is registered as Aloysius Charles Morgan - different spelling of Aloisius and his name is actually Charles so the death certificate has been registered wrong


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Anyone help - I'm confused  

I'm going back over one line in my tree because having received a marriage certificate I now realise I have the wrong parents for one of my 3 x great grandfathers as the lady I thought was his mother would only have been 9 when he was born which is not very likely :Facepalm I'm now having to take out of my tree lots of people to the side and above these wrong parents which is very annoying but will teach me to get my facts straight next time. Actually I am rather glad to be rid of the man I thought was my 4 x ggf as he spent 3 years in prison for trying to procure an abortion on some poor young lady he had got in the family way (whilst married to someone else). Anyhow I've found who I think are the right parents and want their marriage certificate but they married in 1823 and the GRO site where I order my certificates from is saying it isn't possible to order certificates prior to 1837  I didn't know that and could have sworn I've ordered certificates older than that before. Is this something new or am I getting forgetful?


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Oh its so frustrating when you realise your barking up the wrong tree!! Been there a few times because my daft ancestors insisted on using same names, so had several families with children born in same year as their cousin`s and with same darn names! I think 1837 is the earliest to get a copy of BMD certificates anything before that is parish records. Is the parish you want online yet? I`ve got FMP and Ancestry membership because some parish records are on one but not other, I`m sure you`ve probably got membership to both but if you haven't and want me to look up anything I`m more than happy to do so.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

3dogs2cats said:


> Oh its so frustrating when you realise your barking up the wrong tree!! Been there a few times because my daft ancestors insisted on using same names, so had several families with children born in same year as their cousin`s and with same darn names! I think 1837 is the earliest to get a copy of BMD certificates anything before that is parish records. Is the parish you want online yet? I`ve got FMP and Ancestry membership because some parish records are on one but not other, I`m sure you`ve probably got membership to both but if you haven't and want me to look up anything I`m more than happy to do so.


Thank you that is very kind but yes I have membership of both - the area is Sussex and FMP gives me a record of the marriage year and the bride's maiden name but I was hoping for confirmation of their parents names too. I don't know why I didn't know 1837 was the earliest - have been taking a quick flick through my folders and can see the oldest ones I have are from the 1840's. Typically although most of this branch of my family are from Kent and I belong to their family history society so can get someone to have a look at the parish records they have on discs I don't know anything about Sussex.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Westie Mum said:


> I've always thought it was so harsh that my grandad's family just disowned him, but then the catholic/protestant divide was so huge then. We are all catholic, my grandad converted to marry my nan
> 
> Thats awful your great grandad just started a new life and forgot about his wife and child! But truely terrible his 2nd wife (who legally wouldnt have been his wife at all!) wanted the house - cheeky cow! Must have been strange for his children though, finding out all this after their parents had died.
> 
> ...


Mixed marriages are still often frowned upon in certain areas, and especially by some of the older generation. Stupid really since they still worship the same God.. and most have probably never set foot inside a church anyway 

I found it bizarre enough, so can't even begin to imagine how his daughters must have felt! My granda died not long after I was born so didn't really know him, but apparently he and his sister refused to ever speak about their father. Understandably!

The spelling "Aloysius" is an Irish name, (although usually known as Lewis or Louis to add to the confusion) so the more unusual spelling "Aloisius" has likely been the cause of the confusion on the death certificate, it doesn't explain why the marriage was registered twice though :Wacky

This thread has sparked my interest again so I've been having another look.. My brain is pickled already. The 1901 and 1911 census' show most of my family living in Londonderry and Antrim (which I knew) but they all seemed to live in villages and townlands that no longer exist! :Arghh


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Thank you that is very kind but yes I have membership of both - the area is Sussex and FMP gives me a record of the marriage year and the bride's maiden name but I was hoping for confirmation of their parents names too. I don't know why I didn't know 1837 was the earliest - have been taking a quick flick through my folders and can see the oldest ones I have are from the 1840's. Typically although most of this branch of my family are from Kent and I belong to their family history society so can get someone to have a look at the parish records they have on discs I don't know anything about Sussex.


Ahhhh frustrating to have sornt all that time for it now to be the wrong person.

"Who do you think you are" makes it look very easy ..... if only lol

Hope you manage to find the right one.



Nettles said:


> Mixed marriages are still often frowned upon in certain areas, and especially by some of the older generation. Stupid really since they still worship the same God.. and most have probably never set foot inside a church anyway
> 
> I found it bizarre enough, so can't even begin to imagine how his daughters must have felt! My granda died not long after I was born so didn't really know him, but apparently he and his sister refused to ever speak about their father. Understandably!
> 
> ...


Oh I'd be very frowned upon, married a CoE, divorced and been living in sin since lol

I think my nan was very open about her history with me after I got pregnant at 18 (not married obviously). She told everyone the baby was staying and that was it. There was no arguments, even my mum shut up which is remarkable 

I dug out my old paperwork and it's interesting you say Aloysius is known as Lewis, as I found in my notes my Nan's dad was John Patrick. ..... My Nan named my son. His name is Lewis John Patrick :Jawdrop

I'm with you on pickled brain. My grandparents were born in 1926 and 1933 so struggling to find anything at all about them in Ireland. It's like the never existed over there.

My Nan was Bridget and we have a Aloysius and a Plunkett .... we are definitely Irish lol

I hope you get more luck ..... I've signed up for ancestory and findmypast so will keep plugging away. Off out tonight with all my aunts so going to ask any of them if they want to help !


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

One thing I have noticed is a lot of marriage searches come up like this :- 

married one of these people
Emma Price, Eliza Jane Keys, Mary Ann MacAulay, Margaret Douglass

So they have a record of marriage but don't know WHO they married ? Very odd !


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> One thing I have noticed is a lot of marriage searches come up like this :-
> 
> married one of these people
> Emma Price, Eliza Jane Keys, Mary Ann MacAulay, Margaret Douglass
> ...


Frustrating isn't it? I tend to put those in my shoe box on ancestry and then try to find them on a census so you at least have a first name of the spouse to go on then you can try to tie them up.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

The problems I have had recently is on the 1901 Census the person I was researching was 62 and then in the 1911 census the same person was 82. They are only 10 years apart the census records  Didn't they ever think that one day in the future someone might try doing a family tree and research them :Bored

Another problem I have had is this, on this persons birth certificate they were called Vernon and on their marriage Certificate Maiden Name Verner  Took me ages to work out they are the same person. Arghh sometimes this can be frustrating especially when you have only the first name to go by and no further records are available. :Banghead Oh well  Fun isn't looking into your families past.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

My brother was fascinated by our family history and dug up a pile. Direct ancestors could be traced to family village - lands given to a certain knight for his service to the crown in 1430.
The village bears family name and in XIX century my direct grand grand etc..married the daughter of the squire in neighbouring village and that branch eventually produced my Dad.

Then my brother dug some more and according to him our ancestor has some pretence to Czech crown around XI century, but in a dispute about unfaithful wife , who claimed sanctuary in Catholic church, they killed a sister of certain bishop who later became a saint...Pope condemned the massacre and my long lost family had to.seek refuge among Polish nobility.
On my mother's side Polish nobility, but with a touch of Kossack blood and possible Ukrainian.

Grandparents left Lviv and moved with the frontier to escape Ukrainian Communist government who were anti Polish and anti nobility. Plus my grandfather served in Polish Army. 
Lots of documents burnt during subsequent wars, only from inscription in some XVIII book on astronomy we can gather our ancestors had titles and lands in Lithuania and Belarus.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

cheekyscrip said:


> My brother was fascinated by our family history and dug up a pile. Direct ancestors could be traced to family village - lands given to a certain knight for his service to the crown in 1430.
> The village bears family name and in XIX century my direct grand grand etc..married the daughter of the squire in neighbouring village and that branch eventually produced my Dad.
> 
> Then my brother dug some more and according to him our ancestor has some pretence to Czech crown around XI century, but in a dispute about unfaithful wife , who claimed sanctuary in Catholic church, they killed a sister of certain bishop who later became a saint...Pope condemned the massacre and my long lost family had to.seek refuge among Polish nobility.
> ...


Wow, I should bow most deeply to you as my lot are mostly paupers and badly behaved ladies of ill repute.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Oh no. Bugger.
Just found out I might be following the wrong person down my dad's side of the family tree. This person would be my Great Grandfather which means everyone else past the the person may not be related to our family.:Banghead Now I am confused  If what I have found is correct all the information from others who have touched on my family tree on ancestory have wrong information on my family as well. 

I'll have to ask my dad some questions when I see him from this weekend for 10 days and see if he knows much about his Grandad my Great Grandfather if not I will be stuck.

Right I am done for tonight.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Wow, I should bow most deeply to you as my lot are mostly paupers and badly behaved ladies of ill repute.


 Communism took care of that. I am very badly behaved lady - I married a commoner and a foreigner . Promptly was disinherited then...
Imagine...
My poor father had to face common and British grandchildren....still they have that complicated surname no.one can pronounce plus " the common one"... .


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat. said:


> Oh no. Bugger.
> Just found out I might be following the wrong person down my dad's side of the family tree. This person would be my paternal Great Grandfather which means everyone else past the the person may not be related to our family.:Banghead Now I am confused  If what I have found is correct all the information from others who have touched on my family tree on ancestory have wrong information on my family as well.
> 
> I'll have to ask my dad some questions when I see him from this weekend for 10 days and see if he knows much about his Grandad my paternal Great Grandfather if not I will be stuck.
> ...


One thing I found quite early on is not to rely on information other people have in their trees on ancestry, you can often see a pattern where one person has it wrong and others have copied it. I'm sure I've been guilty of not checking my facts out properly as I was following a wrong line too but if I look at someone else's tree unless they have certificates attached to prove something I just keep a note and see if I can back it up, if not I ignore it.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> One thing I found quite early on is not to rely on information other people have in their trees on ancestry, you can often see a pattern where one person has it wrong and others have copied it. I'm sure I've been guilty of not checking my facts out properly as I was following a wrong line too but if I look at someone else's tree unless they have certificates attached to prove something I just keep a note and see if I can back it up, if not I ignore it.


I have just found out that there was a person born a year either side of the supposed persons date of birth with the same name. One of them has army records but neither fit the age on the army records, so they either lied about their age in 1914 (first world war) or I have been going down the wrong tree. I need to find out if my dad remembers his grandad. What doesn't help is the lack of official documents that are available in Northern Ireland.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat. said:


> I have just found out that there was a person born a year either side of the supposed persons date of birth with the same name. One of them has army records but neither fit the age on the army records, so they either lied about their age in 1914 (first world war) or I have been going down the wrong tree. I need to find out if my dad remembers his grandad. What doesn't help is the lack of official documents that are available in Northern Ireland.


I've found lying about ages quite common along with lying about being single when getting married :Hilarious


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I've found lying about ages quite common along with lying about being single when getting married :Hilarious


What doesn't help is on the marriage ceritificate I have for him under age they put "full" .


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat. said:


> What doesn't help is on the marriage ceritificate I have for him under age they put "full" .


Yes that is quite common and just means he is not underage.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes that is quite common and just means he is not underage.


Oh well I hope my dad knows something otherwise as I said I will be well and truely stuck and the family tree down my dad's side will end at my grandad.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Something I thought whilst researching was the person I was researching was Roman Catholic (my family are Roman Catholic but no longer practicing the religion as we stopped years ago after Grandad passed away) the other two with the same name aren't. Also I noticed they all stayed in one area through generations (in Downpatrick). I am acting on a hunch that I might be following the right person.

I am so confused at the moment, so will leave it for tonight


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

So confused!

I've found who I believe to be my gggm Margaret Chestnutt on the 1901 census. She's living with her son and daughters who's first names I remember my dad talking about, and I visited a family farm in Alla, Claudy when I was young (no idea of the exact house number though) so I'm fairly certain this is correct..

















By the 1911 census however, the address is slightly different, and the spelling of the surname is wrong. The first names of the people living there match up, but the ages aren't accurate. The signature of Margaret is also different..

















It's too much of a coincidence for them to be different people with the same names living a few houses apart. Do I assume someone else filled out the form and signed on Margaret's behalf.. and has spelled the surname wrong? :Wacky


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nettles said:


> So confused!
> 
> I've found who I believe to be my gggm Margaret Chestnutt on the 1901 census. She's living with her son and daughters who's first names I remember my dad talking about, and I visited a family farm in Alla, Claudy when I was young (no idea of the exact house number though) so I'm fairly certain this is correct..
> View attachment 324858
> ...


Not sure what it was like in Ireland but in England the 1911 census was different to earlier ones - see this explanation from the National Archives

*From 1841 to 1901 a census schedule was completed for each household, and was then collected by the enumerator who copied the information into an enumeration book. It is these enumeration books that we consult today online and on microfilm.

Special enumeration books were completed for institutions such as workhouses, barracks and hospitals. There were special schedules for vessels from 1851 onwards.

In 1911 all the household schedules were kept (RG 14), and were not copied into enumeration books. There are instead enumerators' summary books which list every address, including unoccupied buildings, and only contain the names of the head of each household (RG 78). The 1911 was also the first census where the army overseas was enumerated; previously there was only a headcount.*

So my understanding of that is the 1841 - 1901 census were copies of the enumeration book which the enumerator had copied from the schedule filled out by the householder - or I assume the enumerator frequently had to fill out themselves if householder could not read/write which may explain variations in spelling of names based on how the enumerator assumed the name to be spelt whereas the 1911 census is the actual schedule completed by the householder or the enumerator in cases where they didn't read/write. Obviously I can't see the 1901 and 1911 census you have posted side by side to compare handwriting but the signatures look pretty similar to me just flicking up and down between them.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Not sure what it was like in Ireland but in England the 1911 census was different to earlier ones - see this explanation from the National Archives
> 
> *From 1841 to 1901 a census schedule was completed for each household, and was then collected by the enumerator who copied the information into an enumeration book. It is these enumeration books that we consult today online and on microfilm.
> 
> ...


Ah ok.. that makes a lot more sense now. Since I posted, I've found my great grandparents on the 1901 census with the incorrect spelling "Chesnutt" If filled out by the enumerator, that could explain the incorrect spelling for them. However, the surname was spelled correctly "Chestnutt" for my gggm in 1901, and incorrectly "Chesnutt" in 1911. By 1911, she would have been 75, so perhaps no longer able to write and filled in by the enumerator.

The spelling on the actual signature is incorrect for my great grandfather in 1901 and incorrect for my great, great grandmother in 1911. Would an enumerator have signed the form on someone's behalf? They're both registered as being able to read and write.

Jeez, how have you been doing this for so long RPH? I'm only a few generations back and feel like banging my head against a wall already!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

See how damn hard it is !

I know my aunts really, really well .... Maybe overforced by my Grandmothers own lack of family unit and the fact one Aunt is only 12 years older than I am  her child is almost the same age as my own son !

But conversation tonight about my grandmothers sister (my aunties own aunt) .. "ahhhh well *Jinny married Wee-she"* (the one who vanished who my nan swore her husbands brother killed her)... no *Eileen J married Aloysius (who was actually Charles*) .... not one of my aunts knew her name was Eileen and not Jinny :Banghead

*trying to show old ladies marriage certificates proving my finding on an iphone after several bottles of wine was NOT fun :Muted

Anyway, collecting suitcase full of family photos and apparent grandparents birth certificates (please be true!!) on Thursday ......

Going to see my grandad tomorrow, as per every Wednesday afternoon, see if he remembers who I am this week or not. Going to tell him im starting up the research again, to see if there's any glimpse of approval or not. So difficult when there is a person still alive that could tell you so much more if the mind was willing 

Signed up the oldest Aunt (first born child of my grandparents) to help with info as & when required  confirmed tonight that my grandad is the only alive child from both sides, even though he is the eldest bar one!


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Westie Mum said:


> See how damn hard it is !
> 
> I know my aunts really, really well .... Maybe overforced by my Grandmothers own lack of family unit and the fact one Aunt is only 12 years older than I am  her child is almost the same age as my own son !
> 
> ...


LOL :Hilarious:Hilarious I know I shouldn't laugh, but you could literally be retelling the conversation I had today with my mum. I wouldn't even attempt to start showing her the photos on my iPhone :Stop

Mum kept getting confused by everyone having the same bloody name and told me my dads great grandmother Margaret Chestnutt was at her and my dads wedding. The woman was born in 1837, I very much doubt she was at my mum and dads wedding in 1967 :Hilarious After much arguing, she finally believed me that it must have been my dads great aunt Margaret (who's real name was actually Ellen, but known as Maggie :Banghead)

Fingers crossed the suitcase reveals some answers for you and that your granda is having a good day and able to share some of his knowledge.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Those searching for Northern Irish family ancestors I have found this free Name Search Tool and this is what it does:

*Search 'Name Search'*
Search indexes to surviving pre-1858 wills found in various PRONI collections; diocesan will and administration bond indexes; surviving fragments of the 1740 and the 1766 religious census returns and 1775 dissenters petitions.

*Before you start*
Name Search pulls together into a single database the information provided in a variety of indexes to records, and extracts from records. This information can be accessed by a simple search by personal name and/or location. The application does not link to digitised images of original records.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/search-name-search

https://apps.proni.gov.uk/ProniNames_IE/SearchPage.aspx

I hope this helps in some kind of way?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stockwellcat. said:


> I have been researching my family tree and have found it to be very interesting and have managed to go back 6 generations (including me) down my dad's side of the family and I am a bit annoyed I cannot go back any further but it is due to GRO records only going back to 1864 in Northern Ireland. My mum's side (from Reading) was a bit more interesting down her father's side and I managed to go back 9 Generations (past 1671) and her mum's (from Buckinghamshire and London) side of the family only went back 6 generations but was interested in finding out one of her ancestors was chancellor of the Exchequer.
> 
> An interesting fact I found was my ancestors down both sides of my mother's family tree lived long lives oldest being 102 but down my dad's side the oldest being 71. All of my dad's side of the family tree came from Downpatrick in Northern Ireland (except my Grandad's family: my dad, uncle and several aunties) and all worked as labourers at the same flax mill or as argicultural labourers on the farm adjacent to the mill until 1940 when my Grandad moved to County Antrim aged 20.
> 
> ...


How did you actually start the search?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Calvine said:


> How did you actually start the search?


With my birth certificate initially, I then got my dad's birth certificate from the Northern Ireland GRO then my grandad's birth certificate from the Northern Ireland GRO etc.

Down my mother's side I got her birth certificate which told me who her parents where and her mothers maiden name and I then had two sides of the tree to go down there. Mum's side was easier to research as they where from Berkshire and Taplow in Buckinghamshire.

I did sign up on a free trial on ancestry and found people had tried to research my grandad's side of the family on their tree but recently found out that the information they have is incorrect.

Birth certificates have valuable information on them like places of birth, parents names, fathers occupation and mothers maiden name. I have also gathered information from census's from 1821 to 1911 on the census search tool http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/ and the National Archives online.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Calvine said:


> How did you actually start the search?


Sorry just to add, ask your eldest family members explaining you are researching to make a family tree and see if they will be helpful in helping you on your quest and see what they remember.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Calvine said:


> How did you actually start the search?


When looking for Births, Marriages and Deaths in Northern Ireland this tool may help: https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nettles said:


> Ah ok.. that makes a lot more sense now. Since I posted, I've found my great grandparents on the 1901 census with the incorrect spelling "Chesnutt" If filled out by the enumerator, that could explain the incorrect spelling for them. However, the surname was spelled correctly "Chestnutt" for my gggm in 1901, and incorrectly "Chesnutt" in 1911. By 1911, she would have been 75, so perhaps no longer able to write and filled in by the enumerator.
> 
> The spelling on the actual signature is incorrect for my great grandfather in 1901 and incorrect for my great, great grandmother in 1911. Would an enumerator have signed the form on someone's behalf? They're both registered as being able to read and write.
> 
> Jeez, how have you been doing this for so long RPH? I'm only a few generations back and feel like banging my head against a wall already!


 I do have little breaks from doing it - a couple of years in the early stages before I really got the bug.  When I hit a brick wall I will often move sideways so look at siblings of the person you are interested in. Also don't get too hung up on slight deviations in names, my notorious sisters from the workhouse family were a nightmare to unravel. One of them Mary Ann on the 1881 census was using the surname Reeves which was not her name, on the 1991 & 1901 census she was using the surname Stoakes which again wasn't her name but in 1911 she was back to using her proper surname. Turns out her long term partner or common law husband was called Hezekiah Reeve Stokes and her 3 children had various bits of his name in their names although he isn't named on all of the birth certificates. Another of the sisters had several children with a long term partner/common law husband and on one census they all go by his name "Roberts" but then on other census they use her surname. I do wonder if sometimes the enumerator made assumptions that people were married and had the same name or more to the point the person didn't want everyone else knowing all their business so just lied. The main thing is to follow the trail and the pattern and not get too hung up on one census being different as long as you can establish they are the same people if that makes sense


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> LOL :Hilarious:Hilarious I know I shouldn't laugh, but you could literally be retelling the conversation I had today with my mum. I wouldn't even attempt to start showing her the photos on my iPhone :Stop
> 
> Mum kept getting confused by everyone having the same bloody name and told me my dads great grandmother Margaret Chestnutt was at her and my dads wedding. The woman was born in 1837, I very much doubt she was at my mum and dads wedding in 1967 :Hilarious After much arguing, she finally believed me that it must have been my dads great aunt Margaret (who's real name was actually Ellen, but known as Maggie :Banghead)
> 
> Fingers crossed the suitcase reveals some answers for you and that your granda is having a good day and able to share some of his knowledge.


i'd agree, at 130 years old I doubt she was the right Margaret Chestnutt at the wedding :Hilarious

Been to see my grandad, not a good day today .... apparently Nan had gone shopping (she's dead) but he could get the cook to make me some lunch. Poor care home staff - he thinks it's his house and they all work for him! But it's ok, cause he is leaving it all to me  (he tells us all the same lol)

Looking forward to getting the suitcase tomorrow. Going to spend the next few weeks scanning all the photos, etc so we can all have copies  I've seen most of the photos before, my Nan used to get the suitcase out and we'd spend rainy days looking through it .... but still hoping there will be paperwork or bits I've never noticed before that will help!



rottiepointerhouse said:


> I do have little breaks from doing it - a couple of years in the early stages before I really got the bug. When I hit a brick wall I will often move sideways so look at siblings of the person you are interested in. Also don't get too hung up on slight deviations in names, my notorious sisters from the workhouse family were a nightmare to unravel. One of them Mary Ann on the 1881 census was using the surname Reeves which was not her name, on the 1991 & 1901 census she was using the surname Stoakes which again wasn't her name but in 1911 she was back to using her proper surname. Turns out her long term partner or common law husband was called Hezekiah Reeve Stokes and her 3 children had various bits of his name in their names although he isn't named on all of the birth certificates. Another of the sisters had several children with a long term partner/common law husband and on one census they all go by his name "Roberts" but then on other census they use her surname. I do wonder if sometimes the enumerator made assumptions that people were married and had the same name or more to the point the person didn't want everyone else knowing all their business so just lied. The main thing is to follow the trail and the pattern and not get too hung up on one census being different as long as you can establish they are the same people if that makes sense


Have you found it easier now than when you first started looking, now there more info on the internet and you know what your doing/how to methodically search etc ?

I think the shame years ago about various things was enough to make people lie. I suppose they never thought anyone would be looking years later so discover it all!

Do you tend to order a birth certificate for each person you find ? So that you know you are definitely following the right trail ?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> i'd agree, at 130 years old I doubt she was the right Margaret Chestnutt at the wedding :Hilarious
> 
> Been to see my grandad, not a good day today .... apparently Nan had gone shopping (she's dead) but he could get the cook to make me some lunch. Poor care home staff - he thinks it's his house and they all work for him! But it's ok, cause he is leaving it all to me  (he tells us all the same lol)
> 
> ...


Sorry grandad wasn't having a good day. How exciting to see the suitcase and photos - hope yours are labelled. We got quite a lot of old photos from my FIL's house when he died but none are labelled. A few my OH could pick out but there are loads we just have no idea who they are. I scanned some and shared with a couple of other people researching the same lines and a few were identified but the rest remain a mystery. One of the most exciting things for me with my workhouse sisters was finally getting a photo of one of them (sadly not my 3 x great granny but her sister) and of my 2 x great granny. It really brings home just how long ago it all was and how very different life was then to see them.

I do find it easier now than when I first started looking in 2006 but that is probably just because I know better where to look and have picked up a few tips from helpful people along the way. No I don't order certificates for everyone, depends on what information is available on line and what information I hope to gain such as is there a father named. I probably have more death certificates than the others but I have a morbid fascination with cause of death and how that has changed over the years. I always make sure I enter all of the information from the certificates on my tree on ancestry (I use Find my past but don't keep my tree on there as I prefer layout of ancestry) down to name/address of informant and place they died as it can come in useful at a later date.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Sorry grandad wasn't having a good day. How exciting to see the suitcase and photos - hope yours are labelled. We got quite a lot of old photos from my FIL's house when he died but none are labelled. A few my OH could pick out but there are loads we just have no idea who they are. I scanned some and shared with a couple of other people researching the same lines and a few were identified but the rest remain a mystery. One of the most exciting things for me with my workhouse sisters was finally getting a photo of one of them (sadly not my 3 x great granny but her sister) and of my 2 x great granny. It really brings home just how long ago it all was and how very different life was then to see them.
> 
> I do find it easier now than when I first started looking in 2006 but that is probably just because I know better where to look and have picked up a few tips from helpful people along the way. No I don't order certificates for everyone, depends on what information is available on line and what information I hope to gain such as is there a father named. I probably have more death certificates than the others but I have a morbid fascination with cause of death and how that has changed over the years. I always make sure I enter all of the information from the certificates on my tree on ancestry (I use Find my past but don't keep my tree on there as I prefer layout of ancestry) down to name/address of informant and place they died as it can come in useful at a later date.


Hmmmm a few photos had pencil writing on the back if i remember rightly. Hope a lot of them do and that the pencil is still visible  we should be able to identify most as pretty sure these are my nans photos so of her, my grandad and maybe the odd brother or sister, then of all their kids.

Her family were very poor in Ireland, she didn't own a pair of knickers until she started working (she spent her first pay packet on knickers that the goat then ate after she hung them on the hedge to dry!) so I doubt very much there were ever any photos taken back then.

Wow, you must have spent a small fortune paying subscriptions since 2006 :Wideyed

I've done our tree on both, for now anyway as not many people on it yet ..... but due to the lack or records in Ireland the further you go back, I'm not really expecting to get back much further than my great great grandparents and even that might be pushing it!

Do you share your tree so other people researching can see the information on the certificates etc ? As noticed most seem to be locked so you have to request to see them off the person who's done them.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Hmmmm a few photos had pencil writing on the back if i remember rightly. Hope a lot of them do and that the pencil is still visible  we should be able to identify most as pretty sure these are my nans photos so of her, my grandad and maybe the odd brother or sister, then of all their kids.
> 
> Her family were very poor in Ireland, she didn't own a pair of knickers until she started working (she spent her first pay packet on knickers that the goat then ate after she hung them on the hedge to dry!) so I doubt very much there were ever any photos taken back then.
> 
> ...


Yes but I've spent even more on certificates  I have folders of them although some are copies shared by other people too. I also belong to a family history society - I don't go to events or lectures as its 160 miles away but get their journal and belong to their online group so you can post a question and it gets circulated to all the other online members and usually someone helps out if they can, have learnt a lot just reading other people's questions and the answers they get too. I also get Who Do You Think You Are magazine and BBC History magazine delivered although not sure if I will carry on with the BBC History one when the year is up.

I keep my tree on ancestry public but I don't put all my certificates on there as it would take too long, I just put the information on there. I've had a few people contact me through the site to ask for more information or offer to share information but funnily enough a couple of people when asking about my workhouse sisters family have run for the hills when I've shared my essay with them - guess illegitimacy and syphilis and the workhouse/embezzlement are not what most people hope to find :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> guess illegitimacy and syphilis and the workhouse/embezzlement are not what most people hope to find :Hilarious:Hilarious


:Hilarious Indeed !!


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

stockwellcat. said:


> Something I thought whilst researching was the person I was researching was Roman Catholic (my family are Roman Catholic but no longer practicing the religion as we stopped years ago after Grandad passed away) the other two with the same name aren't. Also I noticed they all stayed in one area through generations (in Downpatrick). I am acting on a hunch that I might be following the right person.
> 
> I am so confused at the moment, so will leave it for tonight


It`s always good when they stay put in one region, my paternal ancestors not only stayed in one small rural town they barely strayed from one area except when they were in the workhouse. Problem was they seemed to stick with just a few names so I would have lots of William`s, George`s, Mary`s and Elizabeth`s all living in same area all born in same year all getting married in same year, working out who was who took some doing!!


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

3dogs2cats said:


> It`s always good when they stay put in one region, my paternal ancestors not only stayed in one small rural town they barely strayed from one area except when they were in the workhouse. Problem was they seemed to stick with just a few names so I would have lots of William`s, George`s, Mary`s and Elizabeth`s all living in same area all born in same year all getting married in same year, working out who was who took some doing!!


My brother had the same problem. Tradition was to call first born boy - Joseph. Imagine how many Josephs son of Joseph it produced....till Stalin...then somehow it dwindled to a trickle....


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Well this thread inspired me to have a go looking into my Dads side of the family - always shied away from doing it because Goodwin is a pretty standard name and they are such large families (Dad is one of 11 children, and both his parents came from big families too). Surprisingly it made it much easier to identify the correct people, Dad has been able to confirm I have right ones by the names & ages and luckily they have all stayed in the same area for generations. So in just a few hours able to identify both sets of great grand parents - was amazed to see one great grandad was born 168 years ago and the other 165 years ago! I'm in my 50's so found it odd to think my fairly recent ancestors are from such a long time ago! Shouldn't have been surprised really as my Grannie was born in 1896 and Grandad in 1893.

Dad always knew that his Grandma on his Dad's side had died in her 50's (in 1907) and that his Grandad had remarried, but he didn't know his Grandad was 62 and his new wife was 38, nor that he remarried 12 months after his first wife died! I believe they did go on to have more children together, my Gt Grandad already had 7 with his first wife.

On the 1911 census when my Grannie was 15 various other brothers & sisters also appear, all noted as single but there was also a 9 year old grand daughter called Violet aged 9 living with them. Got to do some more digging to find out who the little girls parents were, recognised all the other names from things Dad has said in the past but have never heard mention of her.

Not discovered any dramas, they were simple farming folk who also had to work down the pit to make ends meet but were never in the work house, only one child had died and none were marked down as being blind, deaf, dumb, imbecile or feeble!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I had an interesting evening yesterday .....

I dont speak to my own father. I haven't spoke to him for over 25 years - and his side of the family just never kept in contact with us at all after him and my mum divorced.

Anyway - they are all english.

In a few hours last night, even with the tiny bit of info i remember about them, i found back to by great great great grandparents (who funny enough were born in Ireland !) and even a photo of my grandfather who i dont remember as he died when i was a toddler. They dont all have the same first name (makes life so much easier lol) and have all been brought up in the same town (10 miles away from where we live). 

People researching english ancestory have no idea how lucky you are !! compared to trying to research Irish ancestors, which is such hard work. 

Its weird, i found all these people that are/were related to me and i hold no sentements for them at all. Nothing. 

Whereas my maternal side bring tears to my eyes even though i never met them!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

I sympathise Westie Mum, on my mothers side there is Irish ancestry. My Mum always said the name was Clooney and they were from Clonmel in Tiperrary. I dug through census and managed to work back it was via my great grandma but her name was Cooney not Clooney. So traced back from there that it was her father who was born in Ireland (my Gt Gt Grandad) groaned when the census just said place of birth "Ireland" but then found another one that actually stated County Cork - then I got totally befuddled because he was John married to Bridget but weirdly his parents were also John and Bridget so I got totally mixed up and it gave me a headache!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

DoodlesRule said:


> I sympathise Westie Mum, on my mothers side there is Irish ancestry. My Mum always said the name was Clooney and they were from Clonmel in Tiperrary. I dug through census and managed to work back it was via my great grandma but her name was Cooney not Clooney. So traced back from there that it was her father who was born in Ireland (my Gt Gt Grandad) groaned when the census just said place of birth "Ireland" but then found another one that actually stated County Cork - then I got totally befuddled because he was John married to Bridget but weirdly his parents were also John and Bridget so I got totally mixed up and it gave me a headache!


Ha-ha my great grandfather was John and there's a John in every generation 

My Nan was Bridget Teresa and her mother in law was also Bridget Teresa so when she married my grandad they had the same surname too!

My nans mother was Susan. My nans sister was named Susan. And my nans first born was also named Susan 

They have no imagination honestly LOL

Nowadays I think we use family names as middle names. Back then we clearly didn't!

On another note, got to wait till tomorrow for the suitcase of paperwork & photos. My Aunt forgot she was going out today :Banghead I'm at work when she's at home tomorrow so my son is gong to try and go, before she goes away for the weekend :Arghh


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I do have little breaks from doing it - a couple of years in the early stages before I really got the bug. When I hit a brick wall I will often move sideways so look at siblings of the person you are interested in. Also don't get too hung up on slight deviations in names, my notorious sisters from the workhouse family were a nightmare to unravel. One of them Mary Ann on the 1881 census was using the surname Reeves which was not her name, on the 1991 & 1901 census she was using the surname Stoakes which again wasn't her name but in 1911 she was back to using her proper surname. Turns out her long term partner or common law husband was called Hezekiah Reeve Stokes and her 3 children had various bits of his name in their names although he isn't named on all of the birth certificates. Another of the sisters had several children with a long term partner/common law husband and on one census they all go by his name "Roberts" but then on other census they use her surname. I do wonder if sometimes the enumerator made assumptions that people were married and had the same name or more to the point the person didn't want everyone else knowing all their business so just lied. The main thing is to follow the trail and the pattern and not get too hung up on one census being different as long as you can establish they are the same people if that makes sense


Followed your advice and went down the siblings route today which proved really helpful. 1901 census shows one of the siblings, Ellens Jane, widowed by 28yrs old, living with my gggm, her other siblings and her young son in Claudy, Co. Londonderry. Used her married name of Simpson and found her son James on the 1911 census living with more "Chestnutts" but with a different spelling, and living in Belfast! Would never have found them otherwise! No idea what happened to Ellens Jane as I can't find mention of her by 1911. She would have only been 38 so hopefully remarried rather than died!

Feeling like a superhero detective today! Think I'll order myself a cape and a magnifying glass on amazon so I look the part :Hilarious


Westie Mum said:


> i'd agree, at 130 years old I doubt she was the right Margaret Chestnutt at the wedding :Hilarious
> 
> Been to see my grandad, not a good day today .... apparently Nan had gone shopping (she's dead) but he could get the cook to make me some lunch. Poor care home staff - he thinks it's his house and they all work for him! But it's ok, cause he is leaving it all to me  (he tells us all the same lol)
> 
> ...


Awk, sorry your grandad wasn't having a good day 
Although it's not nice for the family, if I make it to his age, I'd like to have his imagination and think I'm living in the lap of luxury in a big house with a cook and staff who work for me :Happy


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> Feeling like a superhero detective today! Think I'll order myself a cape and a magnifying glass on amazon so I look the part :Hilarious


Well done ! I think you deserve a cape 

And you may well need a magnifying glass to read some of the parish records i've come across 

I remember reading ages ago that they were appealing for churches etc to submit their documents to make up partly for all the lost records. But dont think some places understood they needed to scan them to a standard people can read 



Nettles said:


> Awk, sorry your grandad wasn't having a good day
> Although it's not nice for the family, if I make it to his age, I'd like to have his imagination and think I'm living in the lap of luxury in a big house with a cook and staff who work for me :Happy


He was still living in his own house up until about 2 years ago. The house is in a very remote village ... and after the second time of the neighbours finding him wandering the streets in the dark in his PJ's it was decided he could no longer stay at home. He moved in with my Mum for a while but nearly burnt the house down  Sad really but least we know he is safe now and well looked after.

The bad sides are obviously that his mind is mainly gone now. But he is happy - he doesnt realise and we just all go along with whatever story he has for each day  Most of the grandchildren dont visit him anymore. Me and my sister do, along with his own children so there are enough of us so that he gets a visitor every day which is better than most do.

The good side is that he now eats really well. He has always been such a picky eater, so now we just tell him everything is his favourite 

Everyone just has to remember never to take any sweets off him - they've usually been in his mouth first and then wrapped back up in the papers :Facepalm god love him :Hilarious

And dont sit in the day room - you'll get collared by Marg and her babies (half a dozen dolls) who are always suffering from nappy rash or collic and she needs your help :Wacky


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I have the suitcase !!!










Lost loads of hours today going through some of it. Nan and Grandads birth certificates are in there ..... no wonder I've been struggling. Always been told my Nan was born in magherafelt (asked my aunts on Tuesday and they said the same) ..... nope, my Grandad was born there (not in Cookstown!) My Nan was born was Omagh!

Came across loads of these cards though (blurred names out to share on the internet)



















My grandad and 2 sisters before his sisters died at their parents grave .... so now I have their death dates! And my great grandads name, as my grandad couldn't remember whether it was Francis, Joseph or Charles 










And my grandads family farm where he was born and grew up .... well the remains of.










I could burst


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> I have the suitcase !!!
> 
> View attachment 325189
> 
> ...


Wow how brilliant to have all that new information and wonderful memories to look through, bet you are going to find out loads of things you did't know before. Can't wait for your next instalment


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nettles said:


> Followed your advice and went down the siblings route today which proved really helpful. 1901 census shows one of the siblings, Ellens Jane, widowed by 28yrs old, living with my gggm, her other siblings and her young son in Claudy, Co. Londonderry. Used her married name of Simpson and found her son James on the 1911 census living with more "Chestnutts" but with a different spelling, and living in Belfast! Would never have found them otherwise! No idea what happened to Ellens Jane as I can't find mention of her by 1911. She would have only been 38 so hopefully remarried rather than died!
> 
> Feeling like a superhero detective today! Think I'll order myself a cape and a magnifying glass on amazon so I look the part :Hilarious
> 
> ...


Well done Inspector Nettles, hope PC Phoebe is helping you out and you get a lead on Ellens Jane.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> I have the suitcase !!!
> 
> View attachment 325189
> 
> ...


Wow that must be a treasure trove of information you have there.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Question ..... 

I have found the village my grandads family farm was. I have his birth certificate that states his place of birth as Ballylifford in 1926. There were 49 houses is Ballylifford listed on the 1911 and 1901 Irish census, with house 41 listing the same surname and an adult child with the same first name of my great grandfather (as listed on my grandads birth certificate). 

With such a small village and these are the only Morgan's listed, these have to be them, right ? Or am I just wrong to presume ? 

Still very frustrating - due to the huge gap of Irish records, I still haven't actually found my grandfather or any of his siblings born there on any records online :Banghead and can only find my great grandfather (if that is his family as per above) as an adult, no records of him as a child either.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Question .....
> 
> I have found the village my grandads family farm was. I have his birth certificate that states his place of birth as Ballylifford in 1926. There were 49 houses is Ballylifford listed on the 1911 and 1901 Irish census, with house 41 listing the same surname and an adult child with the same first name of my great grandfather (as listed on my grandads birth certificate).
> 
> ...


It seems very likely an most people would probably go with it although if you want to be sure see if you can prove it another way - a death certificate often gives the actual address of the person and/or the address of the informant, I find out quite a bit from those


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Yay. Had a massive break through with my family tree this evening thanks to my dad and I am following the right person on my grandad's side of the tree. I have now learnt about the siblings and have some great information to folllow up on 

He told me to research my grandmother as that side of the tree is more interesting.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Westie Mum said:


> Well done ! I think you deserve a cape
> 
> And you may well need a magnifying glass to read some of the parish records i've come across
> 
> ...


The parish records I was looking at are shocking too :Hilarious Scrawled handwriting and blurred documents really don't mix well.

It's really not nice to see a much loved member of your family in a nursing home, but you're right, it does help to know they're safe, getting looked after and eating well. You're lucky the sweets have just been sucked! A friend of mine had a relative who rolled up little balls of poop and hid them in sweetie wrappers :Hilarious:Hungover

:Woot Wow! I wanna come and have a rummage in that suitcase too!


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Question..

Does anyone know.. "back in the day" if new houses were built, did all the house numbers in the street change?

From what I've been told, my relatives were all farmers living on the family farm, so maybe new houses were built on the land?

1901 - They were landholders for numbers 13 & 14 and they occupied number 14.

By 1911 - They were landholders for numbers 15 & 16 and they occupied number 15.

I think nowadays the new houses would be numbered 13a, 13b etc?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

There's more to my Grandad than I knew. He joined the Royal Ulster Riffles (previously known as the Royal Irish Riffles) Infantry just before WW2 broke out. Faught the Germans in France and was injured during the Dunkirk evacuation. He was promoted to Lance Corporal in 1943 and sent to Africa to fight Rommel's army and he was promoted to Corporal in 1944. Dad said he liked being in the thick of action in WW2 and was injured again in the African Campaign to defeat Rommel's army. He was discharged from the army in 1945 and went back to Downpatrick and ran away with my Grandmother to Larne in 1947 and got married on 01/01/1948 where he became a labourer.

Military records I have found this morning back up the above information so it isn't tales.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> It seems very likely an most people would probably go with it although if you want to be sure see if you can prove it another way - a death certificate often gives the actual address of the person and/or the address of the informant, I find out quite a bit from those


Thanks  I think I'll order certificates for my great grandparents first and then see if I can work back from there, although I think I'll be mainly relying on parish records any further back and not sure what information they'll hold.



stockwellcat. said:


> Yay. Had a massive break through with my family tree this evening thanks to my dad and I am following the right person on my grandad's side of the tree. I have now learnt about the siblings and have some great information to folllow up on
> 
> He told me to research my grandmother as that side of the tree is more interesting.





stockwellcat. said:


> There's more to my Grandad than I knew. He joined the Royal Ulster Riffles (previously known as the Royal Irish Riffles) Infantry just before WW2 broke out. Faught the Germans in France and was injured during the Dunkirk evacuation. He was promoted to Lance Corporal in 1943 and sent to Africa to fight Rommel's army and he was promoted to Corporal in 1944. Dad said he liked being in the thick of action in WW2 and was injured again in the African Campaign to defeat Rommel's army. He was discharged from the army in 1945 and went back to Downpatrick and ran away with my Grandmother to Larne in 1947 and got married on 01/01/1948 where he became a labourer.
> 
> Military records I have found this morning back up the above information so it isn't tales.


That's really amazing you've managed to find out so much! I'm guessing milatary records contain a lot of information.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> The parish records I was looking at are shocking too :Hilarious Scrawled handwriting and blurred documents really don't mix well.
> 
> It's really not nice to see a much loved member of your family in a nursing home, but you're right, it does help to know they're safe, getting looked after and eating well. You're lucky the sweets have just been sucked! A friend of mine had a relative who rolled up little balls of poop and hid them in sweetie wrappers :Hilarious:Hungover
> 
> :Woot Wow! I wanna come and have a rummage in that suitcase too!


Definitely not taking sweets off anybody ever again :Hilarious



Nettles said:


> Question..
> 
> Does anyone know.. "back in the day" if new houses were built, did all the house numbers in the street change?
> 
> ...


I checked the ones I was looking at and same thing! the 1901 & 1911 have families living at different numbers, all a few up from before so think you might be right.

The farms would have had names rather than numbers so doubt it mattered much to them, just maybe numbers for the census in order of the way up the road.

@Nettles while I think about it, is Pappy an Irish name for grandads ? Or just one my family made up ?


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Just wanted to share some parish records I've been trying to look at :Jawdrop

My poor eyes lol


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

stockwellcat. said:


> There's more to my Grandad than I knew. He joined the Royal Ulster Riffles (previously known as the Royal Irish Riffles) Infantry just before WW2 broke out. Faught the Germans in France and was injured during the Dunkirk evacuation. He was promoted to Lance Corporal in 1943 and sent to Africa to fight Rommel's army and he was promoted to Corporal in 1944. Dad said he liked being in the thick of action in WW2 and was injured again in the African Campaign to defeat Rommel's army. He was discharged from the army in 1945 and went back to Downpatrick and ran away with my Grandmother to Larne in 1947 and got married on 01/01/1948 where he became a labourer.
> 
> Military records I have found this morning back up the above information so it isn't tales.


That's amazing info!

Do you have a link to the military records you found? My grandfather was in Burma during WW2, but I've no idea what regiment. Would be interesting to find out.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Westie Mum said:


> Definitely not taking sweets off anybody ever again :Hilarious
> 
> I checked the ones I was looking at and same thing! the 1901 & 1911 have families living at different numbers, all a few up from before so think you might be right.
> 
> ...


It might not have mattered much to them, but did nobody stop to consider how confusing it would be a hundred years later when nosey folk like us are trying to figure out who is who on the internet 

Hmm.. not sure about Pappy. I've only heard it used once before.. A girl in my primary school used to talk about her Pappy. Now that I think about it, her family were S.Irish so you could be right! It's not a common name in the north as far as I know.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Taken a change of direction tonight and looking at my mums side of the family.

Mum found the info "The Americans Sisters" sent on our family tree so I picked it up tonight.. (My great grandfather left his wife and kids and emigrated to the US.. He remarried (illegally) and had 3 daughters - aka "The American Sisters")

It seems my g.grandfather illegally married TWICE after leaving NI 
1st marriage - 1918 to my g.gm
2nd marriage - sometime between him arriving in the US in 1927 and marrying his 3rd wife in 1939
3rd marriage - 1939 to the mother of the American sisters

According to their research, my gg grandparents married in 1875 aged 12 & 14? :Jawdrop I don't have it here, but they've referenced the info being found on the marriage certificate. Their eldest daughter was born 1877 in Carrickmacross workhouse, making her parents 14 & 16 when she was born :Jawdrop
They had 11 children, including two Catherine's  First Catherine born in 1888 and died in 1891, second born in 1891. My ggm died at just 39 in Monaghan Insane Asylum.

Their research also shows my granda and his sister both being born out of wedlock 

Think I'll go back to my dads side of the family where everyone was respectable, sane and stayed married to the same people


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I love this thread! I'm currently a huge family history geek .

Have found out some rather interesting (to me) stuff about my family. On my Dads side there seems to be a lot of criminal activity and I have recently found one of my ancestors in a book about "Victorian villains" . Have also managed to find a couple of pictures from someone that shares my 3rd great grandfather with me who was born in 1848!

I would just be careful of information you get off some people on websites such as ancestry and always make sure to go over whatever the send you. I was given a huge document about my mums side of the family that apparently made it so we were related to King Edward the 1st. When I double checked I found out it was all a load of nonsense. So sadly I'm not royalty.

There is also a great forum called "rootschat " which has a lot of very helpful people on it and I even found a whole thread about my 4x great grandfather and his criminal activities on there......


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> That's amazing info!
> 
> Do you have a link to the military records you found? My grandfather was in Burma during WW2, but I've no idea what regiment. Would be interesting to find out.


My dad told me most of the information. He has photos of Grandad in Dunkirk and Africa with his regiment which look amazing.

The army record information I obtained was from here but you do have to pay for it: https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/ww2-records


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Royoyo said:


> I love this thread! I'm currently a huge family history geek .
> 
> Have found out some rather interesting (to me) stuff about my family. On my Dads side there seems to be a lot of criminal activity and I have recently found one of my ancestors in a book about "Victorian villains" . Have also managed to find a couple of pictures from someone that shares my 3rd great grandfather with me who was born in 1848!
> 
> ...


Oh no, I was only thinking about you and your royal lineage the other day as I sent off the DNA tests finally for me and OH. My OH is convinced he is descended from Richard III :Hilarious and has French roots but I haven't found any such thing in my research of his line.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nettles said:


> Taken a change of direction tonight and looking at my mums side of the family.
> 
> Mum found the info "The Americans Sisters" sent on our family tree so I picked it up tonight.. (My great grandfather left his wife and kids and emigrated to the US.. He remarried (illegally) and had 3 daughters - aka "The American Sisters")
> 
> ...


When I moved away from the workhouse sisters line of my Mum's Mum's family and started looking at her Dad's family she was pleased and convinced I was going to find good news as my GGF was the village policeman. I found more criminal activity though and a notorious family - one of whom served 3 years for helping to procure an abortion - Mum was horrified but luckily it turns out I was following the wrong line of the family as there was a Thomas with a father called William born in the same year in the same town with other similarities. It was only when I got the marriage certificate of William that I discovered his wife would have been 9 when she gave birth to Thomas so I must be barking up the wrong tree. Mum is very relieved :Hilarious


----------



## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> Taken a change of direction tonight and looking at my mums side of the family.
> 
> Mum found the info "The Americans Sisters" sent on our family tree so I picked it up tonight.. (My great grandfather left his wife and kids and emigrated to the US.. He remarried (illegally) and had 3 daughters - aka "The American Sisters")
> 
> ...


I can't imagine what "The American Sisters" felt about their dad after finding all that out ! Where there any children born in the sencomd marriage ?

Your gg grandparents sound like they had a rough life. 11 kids :Jawdrop


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Yesterday I found a birth record of one of my grandads sisters. One he has never mentioned to me before ...... so naturally thought she had died as a child.

This evening I have found a parish record (rootsireland.ie have some great records btw @Nettles, although another pay one) that shows a note added:-

Notes:
GERALD NESTOR FULTON 01081959 ST FINBAR'S EAST BRIGHTON
VICTORIA AUSTRALIA

Now judging by other "notes added" on other people's, it would mean she married Gerald Fulton in Australia.

I've found a passenger list of someone with the same year of birth and same name in 1949 leaving for Australia. Doesn't show town of birth though. Just Ireland ..... anyone know how I find out if this was definitely her or not ?

Can't find marriage record in Australia as only available upto 1942. Can't find death info either but guessing she's dead, or she's be 95.

Interestingly though, my grandad always told me it was his sister Teresa that went to New Zealand. I'm now wondering if it was Brigid Josephine that went to Australia!

Oh and @Nettles - my grandad had two sisters called Mary !! I mean seriously WTF, why use a name twice LOL. No wonder they never used their birth names :Banghead


----------



## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

On my Nan's side .... I can't find ANYTHING. I have paper copies of her birth certificate, her marriage certificate and even her death certificate ... but online she isn't traceable, or any member of her family. No Irish records at all


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

stockwellcat. said:


> My dad told me most of the information. He has photos of Grandad in Dunkirk and Africa with his regiment which look amazing.
> 
> The army record information I obtained was from here but you do have to pay for it: https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/ww2-records


Fab, thank you!

I wish I'd asked my dad more questions about my granda, or his family in general. My dad died when I was 22 so family history didn't interest me much back then. And the last person to have known any of the family history, my dads older brother, died last year.



rottiepointerhouse said:


> When I moved away from the workhouse sisters line of my Mum's Mum's family and started looking at her Dad's family she was pleased and convinced I was going to find good news as my GGF was the village policeman. I found more criminal activity though and a notorious family - one of whom served 3 years for helping to procure an abortion - Mum was horrified but luckily it turns out I was following the wrong line of the family as there was a Thomas with a father called William born in the same year in the same town with other similarities. It was only when I got the marriage certificate of William that I discovered his wife would have been 9 when she gave birth to Thomas so I must be barking up the wrong tree. Mum is very relieved :Hilarious


:Hilarious From a village policeman to a bunch of criminals must have been quite a shock! No wonder your mum is relieved 

I'm really struggling with the uncertainty side of it. One minute I'm convinced I'm on the right track, and the next I'm doubting it. Funnily enough, it's the dodgy ones I'm less convinced about


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Westie Mum said:


> I can't imagine what "The American Sisters" felt about their dad after finding all that out ! Where there any children born in the sencomd marriage ?
> 
> Your gg grandparents sound like they had a rough life. 11 kids :Jawdrop


I think the sisters might have known about the second wife as they've referenced it as "oral family history" There's no other details for wife no.2 except for her name, so I reckon their dad may have mentioned her.

I haven't looked into that marriage yet, but the info the sisters have on everything else is really detailed, so I imagine they'd have included children if they'd discovered any.

I did think "11 kids! No wonder she ended up in the insane asylum" :Wideyed



Westie Mum said:


> Yesterday I found a birth record of one of my grandads sisters. One he has never mentioned to me before ...... so naturally thought she had died as a child.
> 
> This evening I have found a parish record (rootsireland.ie have some great records btw @Nettles, although another pay one) that shows a note added:-
> 
> ...


Will have a look at the link, thank you. I think I may have paid for a subscription or had a free trial with rootsireland before and it only seemed to have info from the south. Wasn't much use for my dads side as I think they've been in the north for many generations, but according to the info I have now on mums side, they originated from Monaghan which I'd know idea about!

:Hilarious Mary I and Mary II. I find it so weird (and a little creepy) to name a baby after their dead sibling. Mine are two Catherine's, but to be fair, after 11 kids they'd probably ran out of names  They also had a sister who's middle name was also Catherine and another sister called Cathleen! The mum was Catherine, as was the dads sister..


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I've finally had a breakthrough on my Nan's side !!!!!!!!

If you pay for "credits" n NIdirect you can view certificates which haven't been released on all the other search places.

I've found my Nan's parents marriage certificate    For 5 credits/£2.50 you can view the image. Fantastic !!

Although ...... my great grandfather is listed as a widow (my Nan did say he had been married a few times) my poor great grandmother is listed as a minor 

No ages, just full & minor. No dates of births and the fathers section for both is crossed through :Banghead










I already feel so sad for her. Married as a minor in 1925. She died in childbirth in 1933 

And by dates, she wasn't the mother of all my Nan's siblings. I know Elizabeth, his next wife was mother to one sibling, but no idea about the others.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I might cry ......

Does the 3rd line down say Workhouse ?

1st line:- Mrs Houtchinson ? 
2nd Line:- ??? 
3rd Line:- Workhouse ?
4th Line:- magherafelt (town is correct)


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> I might cry ......
> 
> Does the 3rd line down say Workhouse ?
> 
> ...


Yes it looks like workhouse to me. Have you seen this site? I've used it quite a bit and find it really useful - it has a section on Ireland but not sure how useful it will be.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Ireland/UnionsIreland.shtml


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes it looks like workhouse to me. Have you seen this site? I've used it quite a bit and find it really useful - it has a section on Ireland but not sure how useful it will be.
> 
> http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Ireland/UnionsIreland.shtml


I was hoping you would say no ! I'm rather confused now though. Date of death was 1939. My Nan was born in 1933 and we were always led to believe her mother died in childbirth having her.

I'm starting to think he bunged his wife in the Workhouse to die while telling the kids she died in childbirth  My Nan never had many kind words to say about her dad so I'm pretty sure she would have told us had she known where her mother died!

Tracing back she was 15 when she got married and 31 when she died of uterus and mammary tumours.

My Nan also had breast cancer but survived and my cousin has just had a double mastectomy. Most of us have had uterus issues, some cancer, some pre-cancerous 

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look !


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I was going to say perhaps it was a hospital by then as several of my relatives of the workhouse sisters died in workhouse infirmaries even those that had never been residents but this page says it was closed in 1941 and became a hospital in 1945

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Magherafelt/


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I was going to say perhaps it was a hospital by then as several of my relatives of the workhouse sisters died in workhouse infirmaries even those that had never been residents but this page says it was closed in 1941 and became a hospital in 1945
> 
> http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Magherafelt/


Yeah I've read that 

The records are all locked for 100 years but you can make requests (for a fee) for someone to look for you and give you selected details. Have made an enquiry to the public records office in Ireland so see what comes back.

I've only found one death record of someone in the same town as my Nans dad and if that's him he didn't die until he was 68. He would have been 29 when he married his 15 year old bride :Vomit urghhhhh dirty old git :Vomit

Say he was an army pensioner though. On my nans birth and marriage certificate it said he was a labourer so not entirely sure it's the same person - especially as he signed his own marriage certificate with an X. I might be wrong, but surely he would have needed to read and write to be in the army ?

Think that's enough for today ..... spent £30 on search credits on the NIdirect website  will buy some more tomorrow lol ..... seems the only way I'm going to find anything about my Nan's side as even with exact dates/names/places etc nothing shows up on ancestory, findmypast or rootsireland


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Meant to add, I found this on a Magherafelt Facebook page ....


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> Meant to add, I found this on a Magherafelt Facebook page ....
> 
> View attachment 325889


Well done, you have found out so much. Even though some of the stuff is heart breaking it is a fitting memorial to remember them and be able to tell a bit of their story.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> Say he was an army pensioner though. On my nans birth and marriage certificate it said he was a labourer so not entirely sure it's the same person - especially as he signed his own marriage certificate with an X. I might be wrong, but surely he would have needed to read and write to be in the army ?


I think this man might be him. The death was witnessed by son in law Hugh Graham.

I remembered by mums cousin's surname was Graham (they lived in the same town as us, I went to his funeral here about 6/7 years ago).

Just checked, My nans sister married a Hugh Graham .....

Damn it. Didn't want it to be him lol



rottiepointerhouse said:


> Well done, you have found out so much. Even though some of the stuff is heart breaking it is a fitting memorial to remember them and be able to tell a bit of their story.


I'm amazed how much more info is available now compared to 10+ years ago when I previously looked! If it hadn't been for this thread I probably wouldn't have looked again so glad I spotted it


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

@Westie Mum, when did you sign up on nidirect? I've been trying to register there for the last few days and just keeps saying "website currently unavailable" :Shifty


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> @Westie Mum, when did you sign up on nidirect? I've been trying to register there for the last few days and just keeps saying "website currently unavailable" :Shifty


Yeah it seems to go offline at about 10 or 11pm. Try again in the day.

It's a good website but you do have to buy one credit (50p) to search.... no wonder it never worked before, I didn't pay anything  so it didn't show me anything lol

The searches are then free (it brings up a list of matches) but to go into the found ones is 1 credit and then 5 credits to view the actual certificate which is cheap at £2.50 .... but not cheap when you have to view a few wrong ones lol


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Westie Mum said:


> Yeah it seems to go offline at about 10 or 11pm. Try again in the day.
> 
> It's a good website but you do have to buy one credit (50p) to search.... no wonder it never worked before, I didn't pay anything  so it didn't show me anything lol
> 
> The searches are then free (it brings up a list of matches) but to go into the found ones is 1 credit and then 5 credits to view the actual certificate which is cheap at £2.50 .... but not cheap when you have to view a few wrong ones lol


Ah ok, that would explain it since I do all my searching in the middle of the night!

Once you've paid to view a certificate, can you go in and view it again? Or do you have to pay each time?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

stockwellcat. said:


> There's more to my Grandad than I knew. He joined the Royal Ulster Riffles (previously known as the Royal Irish Riffles) Infantry just before WW2 broke out. Faught the Germans in France and was injured during the Dunkirk evacuation. He was promoted to Lance Corporal in 1943 and sent to Africa to fight Rommel's army and he was promoted to Corporal in 1944. Dad said he liked being in the thick of action in WW2 and was injured again in the African Campaign to defeat Rommel's army. He was discharged from the army in 1945 and went back to Downpatrick and ran away with my Grandmother to Larne in 1947 and got married on 01/01/1948 where he became a labourer.
> 
> Military records I have found this morning back up the above information so it isn't tales.


Just a follow on from this. I found out that my Grandad was injured 4 times during WW2 but he was determined to carry on fighting the Germans.

Injured during the Dunkirk evacuation.
1943 Injured in combat in North Africa whilst fighting Rommels army. Remained at his post and carried on fighting. Promoted to Lance Corporal.
1944 and 1945 Injured in Italy twice and remained at his post fighting. Promoted in 1944 to Corporal.
It's amazing the military records kept on my Grandad. My dad said every Saturday his dad/my Grandad would tell him and my Uncle war stories when they were children. My grandmother has kept all his medals, photographs and awards for his service in the Army during WW2. So a trip to Northern Ireland is on the books for me so I can see these.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> Ah ok, that would explain it since I do all my searching in the middle of the night!
> 
> Once you've paid to view a certificate, can you go in and view it again? Or do you have to pay each time?


No, you can go in and view it again - go to menu, features, stored searches.

If you right click the certificates it lets you save the image and then I did screenshots of the page aswell ..... just incase you can only view them for so long, at least I have them saved .... and I've uploaded copies onto my tree on ancestry.com aswell.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

stockwellcat. said:


> Just a follow on from this. I found out that my Grandad was injured 4 times during WW2 but he was determined to carry on fighting the Germans.
> 
> Injured during the Dunkirk evacuation.
> 1943 Injured in combat in North Africa whilst fighting Rommels army. Remained at his post and carried on fighting. Promoted to Lance Corporal.
> ...


Seeing the medals and photographs will be fantastic !


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Just ordered my grandmothers birth certificate. Will be going to Northern Ireland at the end of October 2017. Looking forward to seeing Grandad's medals, certificates and photos Granny has on Grandad when I am there and doing more research on my family tree.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I received 3 certificates I ordered before we went away this morning, unfortunately I can't remember why the heck I ordered them as they don't appear to tell me anything I didn't already know  dare say it will come back to me


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Saw my Great Grandmothers (my Grandad's mum) death record.
She died in Downpatrick General Hospital aged just 49 from secondary Mammery Cancerian Growth in the abdomen (certified). She was a housewife in Killyleagh. She was born in 1896 (in Belfast) and died in 1945 in Downpatrick.

That is really sad to read 

I found her Birth Certificate but cannot find a Marriage Certificate anywhere but I am assuming that there was a spelling mistake on the marriage certificate in 1918 (Her maiden name is Verner but on the marriage Cetificate it says Vernon).


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Nettles said:


> Ah ok, that would explain it since I do all my searching in the middle of the night!
> 
> Once you've paid to view a certificate, can you go in and view it again? Or do you have to pay each time?


@Nettles Just to update you - it appears once you've paid to see the certificate, you can only view them online for 72 hours. I went in yesterday and it says I have to pay again to see them now ...... so save them to your computer on the day you pay!



rottiepointerhouse said:


> I received 3 certificates I ordered before we went away this morning, unfortunately I can't remember why the heck I ordered them as they don't appear to tell me anything I didn't already know  dare say it will come back to me


Hope you figure it out !


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Westie Mum said:


> @Nettles Just to update you - it appears once you've paid to see the certificate, you can only view them online for 72 hours. I went in yesterday and it says I have to pay again to see them now ...... so save them to your computer on the day you pay!


Thank you! I knew I'd read that somewhere on the site but couldn't find it again. I've been using my mobile so will have to dust off my laptop so I can save things properly. My poor phone is about to burst with the amount of screenshots I've taken!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I'm away to the Isle of Man for the weekend to see the twins. It's their first birthday already :Jawdrop so no researching for me now till next week. Give my brain a rest lol


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Can I ask if anyone knows how to search birth records from say 1948 to present in Northern Ireland online or is this not possible? I know on NI Direct you can search birth records that are 100 years old or older online.


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## Zayna (Apr 19, 2009)

I got a month's free membership from ancestry.com quite a few years ago and it was the best time of my life. I managed to trace my dad's side of the family quite a way back to the early 1800s, my mums was harder as apparently my grandad was half Italian and I couldnt access the overseas records. I would love to get a proper membership that includes overseas and trace my husbands family... Even he doesn't know where he comes from lol xx


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zayna said:


> I got a month's free membership from ancestry.com quite a few years ago and it was the best time of my life. I managed to trace my dad's side of the family quite a way back to the early 1800s, my mums was harder as apparently my grandad was half Italian and I couldnt access the overseas records. I would love to get a proper membership that includes overseas and trace my husbands family... Even he doesn't know where we comes from lol xx


I must admit it is fun learning about your families past. I have managed to do my mum's side no problem as she is from England, my dad's side has been fun as most of the records in Ireland got destroyed during the Irish Civil War in the 1920's so I can only go back to 1864.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Well that was fun. Spent the whole day today researching my grandmothers side of my family tree. I found if frustrating that most of the births deaths and marriages records are missing. For example I have one marriage for one person and nothing else and I have a death registration and no birth registration as records only go back so far in Northern Ireland. No census records for anyone I have been researching either.

My dad said it would be interesting for me to investigate. I am having trouble finding anything out about a single person on my Grandmothers side of the family tree.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

If you are looking to obtain UK Birth, Marriages and Death certificates to help with your family tree research you can use this site: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I love how doing this research takes you off in all different directions looking at random things. I got a death certificate today for a lady who married my 3 x great grandfather on 19 December 1875 and was dead just over a month later so I was intrigued to know what she died of and wanted to see the other details to check I am definitely following the right man as I've been on a wild goose chase with him already. Anyway the cause of death is quite difficult to read and didn't ring any bells for me so I just entered it into google even though I wasn't even sure it was a word and came up with this - I've never even heard of Erysipelas before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysipelas

It say she had it of the face and head for 27 days so poor lady must have been ill for all but the first few days of her marriage. He got married to his 3rd wife 6 months later.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

My poor old grandad passed away yesterday  

I've made so much progress this time compared to last time I looked, but am going to take a break until it's not so sad to look. 

Going to take off the notifications for this thread but hope you all continue to find out some great stuff and hope to rejoin you again x


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Just found out a relative died in 1982 in West Germany. I am wondering how I would get a death certificate from over there?

I have a grave photo thanks to findagrave.com.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Westie Mum said:


> My poor old grandad passed away yesterday
> 
> I've made so much progress this time compared to last time I looked, but am going to take a break until it's not so sad to look.
> 
> Going to take off the notifications for this thread but hope you all continue to find out some great stuff and hope to rejoin you again x


Know you won't see this for a while but wanted to say I'm so sorry to hear about your Granddad.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> My poor old grandad passed away yesterday
> 
> I've made so much progress this time compared to last time I looked, but am going to take a break until it's not so sad to look.
> 
> Going to take off the notifications for this thread but hope you all continue to find out some great stuff and hope to rejoin you again x


I just wanted to say I am so sorry to hear about your Grandad.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

General Register Office Certificates

The General Register Office (GRO) is piloting a scheme where researchers can order birth and death records as a PDF.

For 3 months from 12 October 2017, digital records will be available to order via the GRO website for £6 each.

The PDF scheme provides a cheaper alternative to ordering print certificates, which cost £9.25 each.

The scheme applies to birth certificates from 1837 to 1916 and death certificates from 1837 to 1957.

For more details visit

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> General Register Office Certificates
> 
> The General Register Office (GRO) is piloting a scheme where researchers can order birth and death records as a PDF.
> 
> ...


Oh that's handy as I am currently researching my UK family and have gone back as far as 1908 so far and has cost me in excess of £60 in certificates at £9.25 each.

Will order the PDF's instead for the next 3 months at £6 each. This will come in handy in researching my Great Grandad's family on my mum's side of the family and relatives before this.

Edited: Just realised that I will have to pay full priced for some certificates as they are after 1916.

I cannot believe how large the UK side of my family is (e.g. Mum' s Mum and Dad had 16 children, all the children are now married and have their own children).


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

My research is taking me in all kinds of new directions since I started looking into siblings and children of the parents I was looking at.

I thought Irish Families where big. English families are bigger. My Grandad on my mothers side of the family was one of 14 children (his brothers and sisters) and he had 16 children 2 of whom died at child birth and the 14 remaining have all had children themselves.

I wish the gro.gov.uk would allow you to view records online as I cannot use the pdf method as the people I am looking into are quite recent (all born after 1930).

Also interesting is one family member died in Dusseldorf West Germany (Burried in Hanover British Military Cemetery as a Civilian due to being married to someone who was in the British Armed Forces stationed in Dusseldorf) in 1982 and I'd love to know how to get a death certificate from there?

It is very interesting researching family history.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Its very addictive too @stockwellcat


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Its very addictive too @stockwellcat


Oh yes definitely addictive


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Mmm.
Just received a birth certificate for someone else it wasn't the one I ordered. Just about to contact GRO.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat. said:


> Mmm.
> Just received a birth certificate for someone else it wasn't the one I ordered. Just about to contact GRO.


I've had that happen once, they were very apologetic and got the right one off to me straight away. Think I had to send back the wrong one.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I've had that happen once, they were very apologetic and got the right one off to me straight away. Think I had to send back the wrong one.


Can't get through on the phone line so have emailed them.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Know you won't see this for a while but wanted to say I'm so sorry to hear about your Granddad.





stockwellcat. said:


> I just wanted to say I am so sorry to hear about your Grandad.


Thank you both x I'm still finding wednesdays really hard as that was our time together so just need to keep busy.

The funeral isn't until 7th November (they have a backlog!) we were offered a few days before but went with 7th as that's the same date my Nan's funeral was.

So same date, same place, same time ..... 15 years apart. Kind of sweet really 

Anyway, just popped on quick as before my grandad passed away I had put in a request to PRONI (public records office in Ireland) for information about Workhouse records. My great grandmother died there and going further back she was there in the orphanage as a child too.

The public records office replied telling me the records were sealed (under 100 years old) and I had to put in a Freedom Of Information request, which I did.

Has anyone done this before ?

Today I've had this come ....

_With reference to your request to PRONI seeking access to the following information:
_
*PRONI REF: BG/23/GD/7 - Magherafelt Register*
_
Because this record is closed to the public, PRONI has an obligation under Freedom of Information (FOI) Act 2000 to consult with the relevant authority (that is the Department of Health and Social Services and Public Safety) before a determination can be made on release of the information to the public.

This consultation is now in progress and I will be in contact with you in the near future to let you know the outcome.

Regards_
*

Records Management, Cataloguing & Access | Department for Communities PRONI*


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Westie Mum said:


> Thank you both x I'm still finding wednesdays really hard as that was our time together so just need to keep busy.
> 
> The funeral isn't until 7th November (they have a backlog!) we were offered a few days before but went with 7th as that's the same date my Nan's funeral was.
> 
> ...


So sorry about your loss.


----------



## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> So sorry about your loss.


Thank you x


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I was bored this morning so turned my attention back to my family tree research and made a break through with my family tree in Northern Ireland as I found that my 3rd Great Grandfather had 4 brothers and 1 sister. How I found this out was with the mothers maiden name and I checked them all and they are correct. But unfortuantely I will never be able to get my 3rd Great Grandfathers birth certificate as the GRO on NI Direct cannot be searched before 1864. I am reading advice on searching for records before 1864 in Northern Ireland at the moment. The problem is alot of records were destroyed during the Irish Civil war.

I have contacted the records office to see if any records exist before 1864 that aren't available online eg Births, Marriages and death certificates.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Oh I didn't know that. NI Direct just got back to me and said:


> Civil registration in Ireland for births, deaths and Catholic marriages only began in 1864. You may wish to view church records which can go back further than this, you can contact the parish itself or the Public Records Office NI.


So there are records to be researched. Excellent. Now I will contact PRONI and see what I can do to view these records in the hope of continuing my search for my family tree.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat. said:


> Oh I didn't know that. NI Direct just got back to me and said:
> 
> So there are records to be researched. Excellent. Now I will contact PRONI and see what I can do to view these records in the hope of continuing my search for my family tree.


Have you checked to see if there are any family history societies in the area you are looking at? They often have parish records transcribed on to discs that you can buy for a few quid.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Have you checked to see if there are any family history societies in the area you are looking at? They often have parish records transcribed on to discs that you can buy for a few quid.


I will look into this. The areas I am looking at are County Down (Downpatrick) and Newtownards (Ards). I will see if there are any family history societies in these areas.

Wow the family tree has just got bigger this morning with my 3rd Great Grandfathers children who all married around the Ards area. Just double checking this information to confirm.

I found that people have tried to do our family tree before but got the wrong information on there. I am making my attempt at the family tree factual so alot of time is consumed making sure the facts are correct.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm really impressed with how far you've got. We had to prove ancestry to claim an inheritance a few years ago and it was a nightmare because we had to go back prior to partition and records were destroyed in 1916. Luckily we had personal knowledge which led us to parish records and we found parish clerks to be the most helpful people.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

havoc said:


> I'm really impressed with how far you've got. We had to prove ancestry to claim an inheritance a few years ago and it was a nightmare because we had to go back prior to partition and records were destroyed in 1916. Luckily we had personal knowledge which led us to parish records and we found parish clerks to be the most helpful people.


I have exhausted the GRO route as I cannot go back any further than 1864. I am now looking at researching Parish records and seeing if any family history societies exist in the areas I have/had family in.

Been checking the information I found this morning which took me this afternoon and until now to confirm. My family orginally lived in a town called Kircubbin in Newtownards, County Down before my 2nd Great Grandfather fell in love and married a lady in Downpatrick and then my 1st Great Grandfather moved to Killyleagh in Downpatrick where my Grandad was born. They all worked in Mill Houses and on Farms and that is were they found there wives and Tullyvery (or Tullyveery) is on alot of the information I found eg Marriage Certificates and on Census reports 1901 and 1911.

Let's see where the Parish Records take me on this journey discovering my family trees past.

The English side of my family (My mothers side) was easy to research although I am now in touch with the Germany Embassy in London trying to find out how I get hold of a death Certificate of a relative that died in West Germany in 1982.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I didn't join in on this thread as I knew nothing about my mothers side of the family apart from knowing she had a brother and sister. There was a mystery about her and her birth year and I had a selection of years that were possibilities, what she told me, what was gleaned from her marriage certificate what was on her passport, all different years. 

I knew her siblings had both died (or so she told me) and she refused to answer any questions as to why we couldn't find a birth certificate online for her and basically became angry, so we gave up and I thought, as an only child, there was just me left.

All I knew of her prior life was that she was born in a village called Coylton near Ayr, she was orphaned at the age of three and along with her brother and sister sent to a Scottish orphanage called Quarriers. During the war she worked in a munitions factory and later joined the Naafi.
When she died my father didn't feel able to clear out her things, so I did it and in doing so discovered a large old wallet containing photos and letters. I decided not to show these to my dad as I was pretty certain they would vanish never to be seen again. They had been hidden in the back of a drawer and I felt there must have been a reason for them to be hidden.
At home I looked through the wallet. The letters were from my dad when he was still stationed out in Germany after the war, just telling my mum what he was doing and sending his love and looking forward to their marriage.
The photos were of their marriage, some members of dads family and some of a girl who I didnt recognise as any of my cousins from dads family. Decided not to tell dad.

That was in 2004. Occasionally we would check to see if there was any evidence of mums birth anywhere, but found nothing. The only thing we could come up with as an explanation as to her reticence was that she was illegitimate which was still something to be embarrassed about in those days. So I gave up looking and just accepted I would never know

Then in March this year I was contacted by a lady called Chris telling me she was related to me through my mum, she told me she was my niece! Her mum was my half sister and that there was another half sister and a half brother!!!
After a lot of tooing and froing of emails and a get together in Derbyshire to meet everyone and much research on the internet this is what I now know.
Mum, christened Hannah, was born in 1912 and, as she told me, her mother died during the birth of her son which I now know was in 1914, mums brother. Her father died at the front in March 1918 which was when the children were sent to the orpahanage. Mum had adjusted dates of the story she told me trying to cover her true age. Before her parents married they also had two other children, a boy and a girl, so I had another uncle and aunt.
In 1934 mum gave birth to her first child, a boy. Her fiancé was dying in hospital at the time. The child was brought up by one of mums aunts. He died in 2013 and we have just started a tentative contact with his son, my nephew.
In 1939 whilst working as a maid in a village in the High Peak area of Derbyshire, mum gave birth to her second child, a daughter who was raised by another of her aunts who lived nearby. In 1940 she gave birth to her third child, another daughter and was sacked from her job and ended up in Chorley with the baby and lived with a family whilst she worked in munitions. The family adopted mums daughter when she was 18 months and mum left and presumably joined the Naafi. She met my father a few years later and they married in 1948 and I was born three years later.

The pictures of the young girl I found in the wallet was of her oldest daughter, christened Agnes but always known as Nancy. Mum never liked her given name of Hannah and she was nicknamed Nancy by her friends (so she told me) or was it a way of keeping in touch with her daughter, who knows, certainly an odd coincidence if not.
I now have a huge family on my mothers side. My grandmother was one of 12 and her father married again and produced even more children. We have found family members from my uncle who was born before my grandparents married and and new family are popping up almost daily from descendants of my grandmothers brothers and sisters. The family tree on ancestry is now enormous and is barely contained.

I'm still having trouble coming to terms with my mothers prior life, there was never the merest hint that she was ever a maid once upon a time let alone anything els. No wonder she wanted to keep her birth year secret as once we had her true age and her parents names it would have been more easy to start looking for information and I think I would have wanted to know more about her prior life especially as she was older then dad by ten years instead of the three years I had thought for most of my life. I think the hardest thing for me to deal with is that I have only just met my two half sisters, they are a fair bit older then me, but I would loved to have known them when I was young and to have their support through the years. I also found that mum lied about when her sister died, I suppose this was to stop me contacting her and asking questions. What she didn't know I don't think, was that her sister was in contact with mums older daughter and passed on a lot of photographs of my mother and father and several of me too. So they knew of my existence and when my half sister felt ready to contact me her daughter set about finding me, which isn't difficult these days.

So there we are, far from being an only child I have found that at the age of 67 I am one of four.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

@Siskin I've been trying to get to read your post since last night and only just managed to. What an amazing discovery and story. Can I ask how close you were living as a child to any of the family you didn't know you had? Presumably your Mum kept up some sort of contact with Nancy or she wouldn't have been at the wedding - do you know if she maintained contact with her or did they lose touch? Do you think your Dad knew about all of the children? One of my relatives had 2 children before getting married (in her teens) and her husband knew about the oldest who was brought up by extended family but not about the younger one who was adopted. He only found out when those two sisters somehow made contact with each other and she had to tell him before her oldest daughter did.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

It is an incredible story isn't it @rottiepointerhouse, I can barely believe it myself especially as mum was so strict with me, didn't tell me about sex etc when I got to my teens, just had a go at me whenever I asked. I can remember when I was about 13 and I asked what a virgin was and she more or less blew her top. And yet she...........
She always did seem old to me, but then as a child you always think your parents are old

Mums first child, David, lived in Scotland all his life, but his son and his family live in Newbury which isn't that far from us. Nancy, the second child lives in Whaley Bridge and has done all her life although had annual family visits to Coylton each summer. She told me that she listened in to many a conversation amongst her aunts and got to know a lot of the family history by sitting quietly and earwigging. Brenda (given the name of Margaret on her birth certificate, but name changed when she was adopted) who was the third child and remained in Chorley. My parents lived in London for a time, then Surrey, but spent most of their lives in Gloucestershire.

What my dad knew I just don't know. Nancy told me that when dad asked mum to marry him she asked if Nancy could come and live with them, but he said no. So if this is true then he did know about her at least. Now this is what OH and me can't quite reconcile. My dads job required that he was security vetted to a high level all his working life. He had to tell them everything about his family and his wife's, what they are worried about is that you have a secret that could be used to blackmail you. They are very thorough and would have searched records to check for any issues. I worked there too and so did OH and we were both vetted regularly to check there were no changes. Not at all sure if it could have remained hidden that his wife had two other children he knew nothing about. Then there was her passport and the birth year in that which was wrong, dad claimed they had made a mistake, yeah right. So I've no idea what dad knew. I know they visited mums brother and his wife regularly and occasionally mums sister although she spent a large part of her life locked away in some kind of asylum hospital until a new doctor realised she shouldn't have been there in the first place and she was allowed to leave. They also went to visit the orphanage where mum and her two siblings spent their early lives. I asked mum if they had any information on her and she said they didn't keep records that long and they had been destroyed. Another fib as we now have copies of the records including letters from her grandfather.
I think mum kept up with how Nancy was via her sister which is how Nancy had photos of me. She was the only child who knew about all of us. As a child she didn't know that the women who she called mum was actually a great aunt until another child told her. Then when they holidayed in Scotland each year, the older boy who she thought was just one of the local children was actually her half brother when one of her great aunts told her. She also knew about Brenda, but had never met her until February this year, then we all met in March.
We knew nothing about mums sons family until we found his death certificate recently. Scottish death certificates carry a lot of information on them, more then English ones and that gave us the name and address of his son amongst other things. They have been contacted and have exchanged a few emails, but them like me are having difficulty coming to terms with it all, Brenda is the same. In a way it's easier for Nancy as she has always known about us, but has only recently decided she would like to make contact.

It's a strange story, my niece Chris plans one day to write it all down from start to finish using her mums memories as the starting point.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Siskin said:


> It is an incredible story isn't it @rottiepointerhouse, I can barely believe it myself especially as mum was so strict with me, didn't tell me about sex etc when I got to my teens, just had a go at me whenever I asked. I can remember when I was about 13 and I asked what a virgin was and she more or less blew her top. And yet she...........
> She always did seem old to me, but then as a child you always think your parents are old
> 
> Mums first child, David, lived in Scotland all his life, but his son and his family live in Newbury which isn't that far from us. Nancy, the second child lives in Whaley Bridge and has done all her life although had annual family visits to Coylton each summer. She told me that she listened in to many a conversation amongst her aunts and got to know a lot of the family history by sitting quietly and earwigging. Brenda (given the name of Margaret on her birth certificate, but name changed when she was adopted) who was the third child and remained in Chorley. My parents lived in London for a time, then Surrey, but spent most of their lives in Gloucestershire.
> ...


Thank you for sharing. Such webs people used to weave but of course they never expected the internet to come along and make it possible for future generations to go back and find out all sorts of things and unravel their lies. I hope your niece does get round to writing it all up. The essay I did about my Mum's side really helped me to get everything straight in my mind, not everyone appreciated it mind


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Siskin said:


> I didn't join in on this thread as I knew nothing about my mothers side of the family apart from knowing she had a brother and sister. There was a mystery about her and her birth year and I had a selection of years that were possibilities, what she told me, what was gleaned from her marriage certificate what was on her passport, all different years.
> 
> I knew her siblings had both died (or so she told me) and she refused to answer any questions as to why we couldn't find a birth certificate online for her and basically became angry, so we gave up and I thought, as an only child, there was just me left.
> 
> ...


That is an amazing story. I have just managed to read both posts you posted.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I have had so much help from the registry office in Germany in the last 48 hours trying to trace the death certificate of my relative who died in West Germany in 1982. I have been told that because the death certificate if over 30 years old it has been archived and I have been put in touch with the archive offices in the district my relative died in. I am now awaiting a reply from them. It's been fun translating my emails from English to German and there emails from German to English using Google Translate as my understanding of the German language is none existant.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

stockwellcat. said:


> I have had so much help from the registry office in Germany in the last 48 hours trying to trace the death certificate of my relative who died in West Germany in 1982. I have been told that because the death certificate if over 30 years old it has been archived and I have been put in touch with the archive offices in the district my relative died in. I am now awaiting a reply from them. It's been fun translating my emails from English to German and there emails from German to English using Google Translate as my understanding of the German language is none existant.


If you have any problems my new niece is an excellent German speaker, she was married to a German and lived in Braunschweig for many years. She's really into family research so I'm sure would be happy to help another researcher


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Wow. I have been in constant contact over the last week with a researcher in West Germany who has done some research for me. Unfortunately they were unable to find my relative at the city in question but there has been a turn of events. My relative has been found in Hannover and a grave site found as well. A researcher there is dealing with my request and I will receive information in the next 3 weeks (death certificate) as they are inundated with requests at the moment. I have just 2 minutes ago received a picture of the grave stone and it is the person in question.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

@stockwellcat. Who Do You Think You Are magazine has a feature on finding you Irish family this month. They also mention in the news round up a new website that allows you to track the impact of the Great Irish Famine on the area where your relatives lived.

bit.ly/famineonline

Might be interesting.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Forgot to say new series of WDYTYA starts soon - might be next Monday I think.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> @stockwellcat. Who Do You Think You Are magazine has a feature on finding you Irish family this month. They also mention in the news round up a new website that allows you to track the impact of the Great Irish Famine on the area where your relatives lived.
> 
> bit.ly/famineonline
> 
> Might be interesting.


Thank you. I shall have a look.

I have had alot of progress with the reliative who died in Germany. The researcher had been really helpful and went and took a photo of the grave and supplied alot of information.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Picture of the grave site my relative is buried at in Germany thanks to the researcher I used.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I have also on the Northern Irish side of my family traced living relatives from the area that my family orginated from although I do believe I have still alot more to discover from my families origins as I have only been able to go so far back so far due to lack of documents available.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Forgot to say new series of WDYTYA starts soon - might be next Monday I think.


It was Monday and just watched it, hope you did too @rottiepointerhouse. Wasn't Olivia Coleman lovely and more interesting then she first thought


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Siskin said:


> It was Monday and just watched it, hope you did too @rottiepointerhouse. Wasn't Olivia Coleman lovely and more interesting then she first thought


I've recorded it and hope to watch it over the next couple of days :Woot


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I've recorded it and hope to watch it over the next couple of days :Woot


Let me know what you think


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Siskin said:


> Let me know what you think


Finished watching it last night. Really enjoyed it and agree Olivia Coleman was lovely - my OH isn't keen on her as an actress so I was surprised when he said she seemed really nice. Loved the story about her Indian ancestors.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I have been working so hard on my family tree in the last 48 hours. I had a break through with the family member I was stuck on in Northern Ireland (James). This family member was the one I had very little information on. Well I found his and his wife's death certificates (I know sounds grim) which contained alot of information eg age (which pin pointed me to the year they were born 1847 and 1848). I am waiting for the certificates to be delivered as they may contain more information on them. I will be contacting the churches in the area they lived to see if they have any records on them eg marriage dates, birth registrations, baptisms etc. I have also managed to find out their youngest son was called Samuel and was a Draper and very well off the looks of it and his side of the family done well for themselves (His children's names are really posh). The rest of the family members were farmers up until my grandad who was a soldier in the 2nd World War and then a Non Skilled Labourer after the war. I look forward to looking into the rest of the earliest members of my families tree.

James and his wife Ann married young (James 17 and his wife Ann 16) and had 6 children (5 boys and 1 girl) and lived until 65 and 67 both died from bronchitis.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Well done, its a brilliant feeling when you make a break through isn't it?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

So today my dad was talking to me about my grandad and I found out my grandad was a quiet man that no one really knew well. My dad said my granny used to wake up to my grandad shaking and making unusual movements (simulating what happened when he faught in WW2). He suffered greatly from what is now known as post traumatic stress and this was probably the reason why he was such a quiet person. My dad said he didn't really get to know him until the last few years of my grandad's life which is quite sad as there wasn't help back then for ptsd.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I dont know much about one of my grandads family . I know the names of his parents , I have his autograph book and found his address in the 1900s and got a copy of the census. 
I found the names of his brothers and sisters .
I would love to know what happened to them and if they had children etc. 
Im not sure how to go about it .


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> I dont know much about one of my grandads family . I know the names of his parents , I have his autograph book and found his address in the 1900s and got a copy of the census.
> I found the names of his brothers and sisters .
> I would love to know what happened to them and if they had children etc.
> Im not sure how to go about it .


You can search Births Deaths and Marriages for free here: https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl ask family members what they remember and you can search the census here: https://ukcensusonline.com/search/

Find a grave is another good source: https://www.findagrave.com

If you acquire a birth, marriage or death certificate it will tell you the occupation of the persons parents at the time of birth, marriage or death and also on the census. There are some family researchers you can approach but they may charge.

I have found that I have reached the end of my families tree simply because there are no more documents to get eg birth certificate marriage certificate etc. My family as far as I know originated from Kircubbin in Northern Ireland (Portaferry area).


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> I dont know much about one of my grandads family . I know the names of his parents , I have his autograph book and found his address in the 1900s and got a copy of the census.
> I found the names of his brothers and sisters .
> I would love to know what happened to them and if they had children etc.
> Im not sure how to go about it .


I don't mind helping you out to find this information for you. I tried messaging you but cannot do this as it says


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

stockwellcat. said:


> I don't mind helping you out to find this information for you. I tried messaging you but cannot do this as it says
> View attachment 388355


Oh I didnt realise . I'd better check that !

Just PM ed you .
Thanks for all the links .


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Just spent 3 days doing some more family research and found out my great, great Grandmother came from America and settled in Northen Ireland and married into my family.

A local priest in Northern Ireland has helped me out with parish records etc.

Down my mum's, mum's family my great uncle was in the royal navy during ww2 and after the war stayed in Australia, married and died there. This side of the family died out over here in the UK but there are members of this side of my family still in New Zealand and Australia.

2 of my great uncle's from my mum's family faught in WW1, one was an acting sergeant and died on the battle fields of flanders in France aged just 26 and the other a corporal and survived ww1.

Amazing how a small break through can reveal so much information. I have been triple checking all the information I have found out and it is correct.


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## 5r6ubertbe6y (Dec 5, 2017)

I've gone back as far as the latest 1700s. I've managed to trace most lines. I've spent 5 years trying to trace my great grandads mothers line with no luck


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