# Confrontation with adult Japanese Akita while jogging in park



## jogger_chris (Nov 3, 2010)

Hi there,

I'm a guy who likes jogging, and have joined this forum to find out more about dog behaviour.

I'm a regular jogger, with a lot of people bringing large and powerful dogs to the park where I usually go.

A few days ago, a large Japanese Akita took an interest in me , which ended in a 1-on-1 face-off confrontation, until I finally got the owner to put the Akita on a lead.

Fortunately it didn't turn nasty, but I'd like to learn more, as to avoid a violent situation in the future, possibly with the same dog.

Here's what happened:

I was jogging around the park and saw a Vietnamese man with a fully grown Japanese Akita come onto the park. I saw them as he was letting the dog off its lead, with me jogging past.

I continued jogging in another part of the park, and then slowed down to a walk as I was leaving, seeing the owner and the Akita coming from the other direction.

So rather than go right near them (I love dogs, but am wary of potentially dangerous ones), I changed direction and not so they would notice.

Then the dog separated from the owner, as he/she was loose and not on a lead, running over to me, coming from diagonally behind and standing in front of me.

I tried to reassure the Akita that I was friendly and said "hiya mate" in an encouraging and warm tone, as well as trying not to show any fear.

The dog kind of bounded left and right in front of me, as I tried to ignore it and get past.

But he wouldn't let me past and blocked the way.

I started to feel intimidated and looked around for the owner, who was trying to call his dog, but the dog wouldn't go.

As I saw the owner coming towards us from about 10 metres away, I tried to walk off, but in slightly turned my back the dog seemed to go for me, so I decided to completely turn my body to face the dog, which put him off his attack completely and forced him to reassess his position, backing off a bit in the process.

There was no growling, and I don't remember the individual body language gestures clearly, but I did maintain eye contact and stand my ground.

By this time the owner was getting quite close, and as he did, I edged towards him and asked him to put the dog on a lead, which he did and then apologised.

I didn't feel the owner had full control of the dog, and felt threatened, to the point where I was being tested and getting ready mentally for a violent confrontation, which I obviously don't want.

So, can someone please tell me what exactly was going on - was he just being playful, was I in serious danger, what should I do next time?

Thanks a lot,

Chris


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

Strange post!

This reply is based on MY OWN experience with joggers.

Mine show an interest , but only a fleeing one, normally because they have been startled by the joggers, joggers tend to move swiftly yet silently, they catch our dogs off guard.

Different breeds would react in differrent ways I guess, Dispite what some people say Akitas were initially bred to hunt large game, maybe he saw you as prey

Buy locking eyes with the dog this was a challenge to him! maybe he felt intimidated and this was the cause of his agression.

dunno what else to say really, but if nothing else I have bumped your post up for you!
DT


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Your right DT.. joggers do seem to just give ya a startle.. I am often passed by them and they make me and the dogs jump.. joggers and cyclists that is... And a lot of dogs think a fleeing person is exciting and some sort of game.. Im not sure I would lock eyes with a dog though as quite often they find it challenging.. But then again if you dont look maybe you give off fear..


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## shibby (Oct 3, 2010)

Hi jogger_chris,

That must have been intimidating for you. As already mentioned, staring in to a dogs eyes can be perceived as a challenge so you want to avoid doing that. Trust your instinct in situations such as those. Hopefully there won't be a next time but the best thing is to usually stand still, no sudden movements, try to back off (but keep an eye on the dog, no eye contact) and ask the owner to put him on a lead. He should have had him on a lead by the sound of things. We always put ours on around joggers in case they meander in front of them. You have just as much right to use the park as the dog owner but be alert, unfortunately not everyone who lets their dog off is responsible...


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

When I walk on the local cycle track with my dogs there are lots of joggers and I have trained my dogs to move to the side of the track and sit till I give them the signal to carry on. I get lots of nice comments from joggers and cyclists-so much that I suspect dogs chasing them is pretty common.

As for your confontation-I would agree that staring in a dogs eyes is generally percieved as a threat, however, the bounding left and right that you mention, could have been a "play bow" in which case he was not threatening you. But an akita is a big dog and you have no idea how well trained he is, and you wouldn't want one jumping up on you-even in an unagressive way!!

I think he ought to have had the dog on a lead. He clearly was not in complete control and akitas are big dogs.


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## jogger_chris (Nov 3, 2010)

Thanks for the replies,

I must reiterate that I was _walking_ towards the exit of the park when the confrontation happened, and I didn't 'lock eyes' with the dog - I said I maintained eye contact, in a general sense, but I don't mean I starred directly and constantly into its eyes;

I looked around its face and at it, but not in a threatening way to the dog, and don't believe the dog perceived it that way either, otherwise I think he would have become more aggressive.

It did feel like he was being playful in a way, bounding left and right, but at the same time he didn't want to let me pass, and any attempt for me to get out of the situation was ramping up the confrontation.

I'm of the belief that if the owner hadn't sorted the situation out when he did by finally putting the lead on and taking control, then I was in a difficult and potentially dangerous situation. I know these dogs were bred to fight bears and boars, so it's concerning when you're in that position.

The owner's calling to the dog didn't bring the dog to him and there was clearly a discipline problem or some form of lack of control.

If I had turned my back, it was clear the dog would have attacked me, as I 'submitted' to him, so I feel I did all the right things instinctively on my own, but was running out of options and it was feeling dodgy.


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## jogger_chris (Nov 3, 2010)

PS.

@Old Shep - I just Googled 'dog play bow', and the Akita's gesture looked nothing like that - he was always stood and squared off to me, moving left and right blocking my way, and keeping about a metre distance in front, as I tried to get past; it was like he was interested and curious in me, but also felt challenged and wanted to play a dominance game.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jogger_chris said:


> It did feel like he was being playful in a way, bounding left and right,
> but at the same time he didn't want to let me pass, and any attempt [by] me to get out of the situation [ramped] up the confrontation.


this does not sound "threatening" - Akitas are serious dogs, when they *body-block* it is crosswise 
to Ur path with a rigid body, possibly hackling, head + ears up, mouth CLOSED and hard-eyes. 
they MAY body-block frontally, but that is literally standing face-on - again rigid, up on toes, 
leaning into U, hard eyes, etc.

loose, curving body-language is playful - a play-BOW is quite an exaggerated display, 
as it involves standing-still at least for a moment, butt up, shoulders down with forelegs outstretched; 
moving in a loose-body sideways or angled-on pose is specifically NONconfrontational in dogs, 
the spine may be straight but the head + neck turn to look at U, or the spine is a C-shape, 
with the INWARD [concave] curve toward U.


jogger_chris said:


> I [believe] if the owner hadn't... finally [put] the lead on and [taken] control...
> I was in a difficult and potentially dangerous situation. I know these dogs were bred to fight bears and boars, so it's concerning...
> The owner... calling to the dog didn't bring the dog to him... clearly a discipline problem or... lack of control.
> 
> ...


i am not at all discounting Ur instinctive gut-feeling that this was threatening behavior - 
after all i was not there, i did not see it, and i was not the person the dog ran up to - U were. 
*it is always possible that Ur intuitive hunch that something is wrong is absolutely spot-on - 
never ignore that goosebump feeling. i would however, definitely TOSS all "dumbinance" and submission hooey 
in the nearest bin - it's pure cr*p.* 
"submitting" is a dumb label to slap on a survival response - ARgUING WITH A LARGE DOg 
WITH 38 razors AND 4 ICE-PICKS In THEir MOUTH iS SUICIdaL --- BeIng NONconFRONTATIONAL 
Is INTELLIgeNT And U Will LiVE LONGER... Possibly Long-ENuf To Breed and Raise equally-bright progeny. 
A DoG CaN BITE 5 To 9 TImES PER SECOND, FuLL-MOUTH AnD FULL-FORCE - DON'T GET INtO a DOG-FIGHT. 
*Dogs Win Dog Fights - Humans never do.*

if U see this dog again, please ask the owner how old he is?  i have a bet running with myself. 
thanks!

for future reference, 
the best thing to do if a dog charges after or AT U is to STOP, stand easy side-on 
or angled to the dog, watch from the corner of Ur eye without direct eyes-on-eyes gaze, 
BREATHE deeply and sigh thru the mouth; blinking and deliberately looking-AWAY [turn head + neck] 
once the dog halts, is a good calming signal which reduces the dog's aggression. 
U can turn Ur head slightly still eyeing the dog, YAWN exaggeratedly curling tongue, and watch - 
most dogs will find a default behavior to offer, like "sniff the ground" or "sit and scratch".

i would NOT put my hands on my hips - i say this because many runners do, when standing; 
*it RAISES shoulders and widens the body*, making it an aggressive stance.
a loose parade-rest with hands behind back, palms open and arms long, is a good neutral pose. 
getting a TREE behind U if it does seem the dog is intent on physical assault is good - U don't want to be 
knocked face-down or bitten from behind; LOOK for an owner, get them to leash their dog.

carrying freeze-dried liver, lamb-lung, etc, in a zip-lock bag inside a pocket is also good - SMALL pieces of 
high-quality, stinky stuff; a small bag will keep in the freezer for over a year. think of it as "insurance". 
THROWING a scatter of them like grass-seed to the SIDE of the dog so they "spray" on the ground 
will distract most dogs immediately, it gives U time to retreat a discrete distance while the dog hoovers 
and then jog around a corner.

learning dog body-language can REALLY help - see the *dog body-language sticky* near the top 
of the Training + Behavior forum.

most dogs are not human-aggressive - i am not saying U were in no danger, just that in the USA 
we now have 73-million dogs and only 12 to 13 fatalities per year; auto-accidents conversely 
result in a fatality or a serious injury with long-term consequences *every 15-minutes in the USA.* 
but nobody demands we ban SUVs, tho they roll-over easily and are prone to overcontrol-wrecks.

happy jogging, 
- terry


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Obviously you care about dogs enough to come on here and find out what was going on, and well done you, but it occurs to me that you saw this dog as a danger the minute he appeared because of his breed. There is no such thing as a dangerous breed, and it is rare that a dog owner would unleash a dog in public unless they were very, very sure that it would not hurt anybody. They don't want someone screaming dangerous dog at them and possible causing problem for the animal as well as themselves.

This being said, I agree, never make eye contact with a dog you are not sure of and just stand still till the owner comes to collect the dog. I think it is possible that your apprehension was felt by the dog, as dog's can always pick up on what people are feeling. It is possible that he was trying to appease you, wanting to show that he was no threat. One of my newfies does that if he thinks someone is afraid of him.


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## jogger_chris (Nov 3, 2010)

Hi and thanks Leashed and newfiesmum,

@Leashed - some good tips there, thanks. I'm happy it was playful and nothing happened, but as I said, I did start to feel intimidated and as you say, Akitas are Big dogs with a lot of sharp teeth!

and also to shibby above for the standing still etc comments


@newfiesmum - thanks to you too, but I'm not sure about the fact that the owner was so sure about his dog. The reason I say this is because I live in a high crime area, and a lot of people get 'fighting' dogs is to be guard dogs, to protect them and their houses. Therefore their reason for getting a dog is not for the love of animals, it's mainly against local criminals as this area has one of the highest burglary rates in the UK (in the top ten burglary postcode areas on MSN News recently!)

I had almost no confidence in the owner's ability to control the dog and don't think he was thinking about other people properly, as his dog was clearly out of his control.

Thanks again


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

You could have done what i teach the children to do if a large dog approaches them. It's called the "tree" and basically involves standing still arms folded across your chest and look skyward. This makes you VERY uninteresting and will offer some protection if the dog jumps up.

The dog will either be puzzled and stand off or get disinterested in you and wander away.

At the same time if you feel the dog is threatening i would call to the owner "please get your dog now" firmly but politely (some people are slow to react if they know their dog isn't a threat so need a bit of "hurrying up" )

If a dog actually goes for you there is very little you can do except protect yourself as best you can. Remember that a running object can be classed as "fair game" to a dog and will induce a "chase" instinct in some dogs but by adopting the "tree" you remove the excitement for them. The worse thing a jogger can do is keep running and kick out, which i have seen often. This just heightens the excitement for the dog and makes things worse all round. 

An attack "charge" from a dog is usually very obvious as the dog will be very "focussed" again the "tree" would be the way to go and i would also shout "NO" or "OFF" VERY firmly and confidently as it gets to you as these may be commands the dog understands. 

A pocketful of hotdog sausage may have helped with the Akita as you could have thrown him some to distract him while the owner caught up, dogs who have no ill intent will be interested in a treat. 

If you have a regular problem with the same dog engage the owner about it in a friendly manner as really it is up to them to ensure you do not feel threatened by their dog and they should have better control


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## jogger_chris (Nov 3, 2010)

Hi and thanks for the tips Rainybow, I'll remember those and hopefully they'll be helpful, with me being able to avoid a physical attack as much as possible.

All the best


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

jogger_chris said:


> Hi and thanks for the tips Rainybow, I'll remember those and hopefully they'll be helpful, with me being able to avoid a physical attack as much as possible.
> 
> All the best


Hope so, Happy Jogging :thumbup:


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## michaelasi (Oct 29, 2009)

one more time , the akita dogs r not fighting dogs or aggressive dogs , no more then a terrier .
akita dogs r hunters 
Leashed , it is a pleasure to read u again . U r an absolute treasure .


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

My vet told me that Akitas can turn without warning, that they don't show the signs most other breeds do, so I would have been a bit dodgey too TBH, especially as the owner could not get it back.

There's a sticky on here about dog body language, so worth a read for you to learn what they are meaning. I think standing still and looking away from the dog is your best bet but if it were me my legs would turn to jelly as I have a fear of other peoples dogs even when they aren't a threat - probably why my Flynn does too but when you have a phobia it's not that easy to overcome, me I mean not you.

Hope you don't have to meet the dog again but if you do you'll have an idea what it's saying to you.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

MM, i would say this part is not true:


Malmum said:


> My vet told me that Akitas can turn without warning...


dogs do not "*turn*" in the Hollywood sense of, _"O-M-G, Fido... No, Fido... *No... Help!... * 
(screams, growls and snarls, silence; dog reappears, bloody-faced.) _

dogs bite for *reasons - * they are often perfectly comprehensible ones, like the Maltese who feared 
scissors around his face and the grooming-thing in general [which typically means they have been hit 
or hurt - pulled hair, pinched, cut or burnt, etc, during the long process - by one or more groomers] -- 
so when CM/DW *insisted* upon grooming him, including scissoring his face, he bit him. 
and IMO, as usual in dogs who are being coerced into something that scares them, U could see it coming: 
he grew increasingly tense and frightened, then lashed-out.

dogs bite with mostly-predictable triggers: fear, pain, when threatened, defending their 'stuff' 
[food, bones, personal space, turf, self from handling...]. *our job is to pay attention and not 
deliberately push any buttons - * the only, and i mean *only* excuse for forcing or coercing 
is if the dog has injuries, and *must* be treated; even then, sedating the dog if possible 
is a good idea, to avoid tainting future interactions with vets, vet-techs, etc.


Malmum said:


> ...that they don't show the signs most other breeds do...


*this part is often true - not that they show no signs, but they are fewer and more subtle, 
and don't "last as long".* Akitas and other Asian breeds - Thai-Ridgeback, Shiba, Chow-Chow, Tosa, etc - 
often don't growl much, nor for long, and it may be quiet - not a loud, long or pronounced display.

AND they tend to freeze, rather than do a lot of highly-emotive body or facial signaling - 
so there's minimal lip-lifting, snarling, or any other obvious preludes we see often in Western breeds. 
they freeze, give a hard-look with a closed mouth, growl quietly or don't growl, and BITE.

*watch for the freeze -* if it happens, *STOP* what U are doing, evaluate what is 
going on and what's upsetting the dog, and find a way to defuse the situation; 
put off whatever it was: grooming, cutting claws, ____ - until U can begin DS/CC, 
desensitizing and counter-conditioning, to that situation, stimulus or object / person.

stopping is always preferable to being bitten - and *freezing with a hard stare * is a warning. 
it's not sirens blaring for 2-minutes, but it may be all U get, so pay bloody good attention: when U get it, 
STOP, figure out why, and make a plan to B-Mod for that trigger. *the skin U save may be Ur own, 
but the life U save may be the dog's - * aggression, especially toward humans, gets dogs dead.

JMO + IME, 
- terry


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## kazschow (Oct 23, 2008)

Yup my chows NEVER growl! Most folks would be hard pushed to see any signs with them, it's more a subtle change of stance... One of the main reasons I don't think they're the most suitable dog for many owners.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Never heard my Mals growl but Kali shows her teeth at the others sometimes - moody mare! Funny thing is they don't take any notice but I do as i've watched it before to see what happens and she just ends up attacking them and then a fight breaks out with niether backing down. So if they're not ineterested in her body language I certainly am, lol!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Malmum said:


> ...if they're not interested in her body language, I certainly am, :lol: !


:thumbup: U'll live longer...


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