# Worming



## sparkle23 (Jun 28, 2011)

Just wondered at what age you start to worm your kittens and what with??

I've read to use Panacur liquid 10% before.

Thank you


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## sparkle23 (Jun 28, 2011)

Any chance anyone can answer my question about when to start to worm the kittens?

I have read differring opinions on worming them whether it is 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks or 8 weeks.

My mentor used Milbemax for her last litter and had a lot of problems with the kittens.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

panacur liquid or paste follow amounts on bottle at 4-8-12weeks of age

milbe,ax shouldnt be use on cat under 12weeks of age.


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## lechatnoir83 (Jun 24, 2011)

Make sure you weigh the kittens accurately and follow any directions on the product you choose. Also make sure you store the product correctly as this can have a huge impact on how it works. 

The kittens will need treating on 3 consecutive days with the liquid (oral suspension), if they are unweaned then give it to them after feeding. If they are weaned then you can give it to them with food. 

Again please be accurate about weights, so many people think it doesn't matter but get the dosage right and whatever product you use it will do its job correctly! So many people don't know what weight their animal is and they don't realise the problems that can arise from getting the dose wrong. 

Hope this helps


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## sparkle23 (Jun 28, 2011)

My vet has said that as long as the kittens are above 0.5kg that they can have Milbemax wormer from 6 weeks old.

This is what my mentor did, she uses a different vet in a different area. She won't use it again but i know other breeders that do use it and some of them start at 6 weeks old.

I use it for my adult cats but would rather not use it for my kittens, for now anyway.

Is panacure liquid always for 3 days in a row?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

sparkle23 said:


> My vet has said that as long as the kittens are above 0.5kg that they can have Milbemax wormer from 6 weeks old.
> 
> This is what my mentor did, she uses a different vet in a different area. She won't use it again but i know other breeders that do use it and some of them start at 6 weeks old.
> 
> ...


have you not got the bottle there with you? it has all the instructions on the side of it so please follow them


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## sparkle23 (Jun 28, 2011)

I do have the bottle and that is what it recommends. I also have Milbemax (for my other cats) and it states that it can be given to kittens from 6 weeks of age when you said 12. I am just trying to get opinions on what breeders do.

Nobody has mentioned what age they worm at either.

I find it odd that on a forum that has a lot of breeders, not many people are willing to share their experience.

I feel like it's a special group that will not let outsiders in i feel like i'm :mad2: banging my head against a wall trying to get some advice from people so that i know all the answers when i have my kittens and can make the best decision given the evidence i have (which, so far, is very poor).


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Not a 'special community' at all. You have a mentor, why not follow her advice?

Sorry you think the information given is so poor. 

Anyway I can't see any problems with TB nor lechatnoirs advice. Sorry you think it is so poor. I am sure everyone else will be jumping to give you some more poor advice.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> *panacur liquid or paste follow amounts on bottle at 4-8-12weeks of age*
> .





sparkle23 said:


> I
> Nobody has mentioned what age they worm at either.
> 
> I find it odd that on a forum that has a lot of breeders, not many people are willing to share their experience.
> ...


whats that then?  Thats the ages that I wormed at, so I did infact answer your question Wayyyyyyy up there!


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> whats that then?  Thats the ages that I wormed at, so I did infact answer your question Wayyyyyyy up there!


You broke the special groups rules!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> You broke the special groups rules!


lol oh no!


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## sparkle23 (Jun 28, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Not a 'special community' at all. You have a mentor, why not follow her advice?
> 
> Sorry you think the information given is so poor.
> 
> Anyway I can't see any problems with TB nor lechatnoirs advice. Sorry you think it is so poor. I am sure everyone else will be jumping to give you some more poor advice.


I never said the information given was poor and at no point was it implied!

All i did was question the Milbemax as i have heard different advice.

I also must have missed what Taylorbaby said about the weeks given, so i apologise for that. She was the only one that mentioned the ages. The other poster that explained about the 3 days, did not mention at what age.

You are right, i do have a mentor. She is a fantstic person and has lovely cats. She had a bad experience with Milbemax with her last litter so is now back to Panacur which she doesn't like to give. Whilst she is very suportive and i value her opinion, is it SO wrong to ask what other breeders do to get a good view of what is good practice.

I know there are more breeders on here as they are very quick to offer 'advice' to people who let the girl have just one litter. I, on the other hand, are trying to gather the correct information well in advance of breeding.

I'll apologise to Taylorbaby again for missing her input


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## lollo2304 (Feb 3, 2009)

Sorry you are having problems. I have just started breeding myself and found that all the contradictorary advice was very confusing.

I have used Panacur liquid but the kittens absolutely hated it. I felt so bad giving it to them this week. They were all starting to really love me and it made them wary of me this morning  All is forgiven this afternoon though as i have had lots of purrs....

Surely there must be a better way!!

My mentor advised me to worm at 5, 8 and 12 weeks so that is what i have done. Well, their first one anyway.

I can't see anything wrong in getting as much information on what to do so well done to you for trying.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

I worm panacur three days running at 2,5 and 8 weeks, then Advocate at 12 weeks. At two weeks old the kittens don't resist or anticipate worming I find.

The problem, and advantage, with a forum is that you are getting people's opinions and not textbook advise. I think as you are at such an early stage it is admirable that you are seeking out as much info as poss, but it will be conflicting as it people find what works for them. You are a long way off worming kittens yet as your queen may not even conceive. Perhaps ask your vet regarding worming when your queen has her snap test as you should get sound medical advise from your vet and not less clear, conflicting, inconsistant advise from a public forum.

Please don't think I'm trying to put you off, the forum is invaluable and the way people rally round to help someone who's queen is not feeding young kittens is admirable. I'm sure if you had a litter of kittens with worm symptoms you would get a lot of immediate help and advise. 

I would advise you to ensure your queen is fully wormed with a vet dispensed product and up to date on her vaccinations. There are some good books on breeding like the Dan Rice one on Amazon also.

Good luck and I hope you can find a worming regime to suit you amongst the many different ones used by different breeders.

Katy


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## sparkle23 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank you Katy, you have given a completely different regime to any i have heard.

The reason i asked on here is that i know a lot of breeders use this forum. What better way to understand what people do than to ask for advice. I do realise that there will be differing opinions but the confusing advice i have received/read has been from other places like books and internet pages. I have the Dan Rice book and it doesn't really mention a wormer or worming regime for kittens.

My vet is a great believer in Milbemax and this is what he has recommended to me. However, my mentor does not like it after a bad experience. He is not fond of using panacur liquid due to it distressing the cats/kittens.

Thank you again, will discuss this with my mentor.


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## lechatnoir83 (Jun 24, 2011)

lechatnoir83 said:


> Make sure you weigh the kittens accurately and follow any directions on the product you choose. Also make sure you store the product correctly as this can have a huge impact on how it works.
> 
> The kittens will need treating on 3 consecutive days with the liquid (oral suspension), if they are unweaned then give it to them after feeding. If they are weaned then you can give it to them with food.
> 
> ...


I even told you about the product (Panacur) that you were asking about! If you aren't happy with the advice then please go and speak to your vet/vet nurse. Or even see an SQP in a pet store (I used to be one so the instructions I gave you are exactly what I would give to a customer!) To be honest I'm not sure what answer you were looking for as all the posters on here have given you good advice! :shocked:


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## sparkle23 (Jun 28, 2011)

lechatnoir83 said:


> I even told you about the product (Panacur) that you were asking about! If you aren't happy with the advice then please go and speak to your vet/vet nurse. Or even see an SQP in a pet store (I used to be one so the instructions I gave you are exactly what I would give to a customer!) To be honest I'm not sure what answer you were looking for as all the posters on here have given you good advice! :shocked:


And thank you for your original post. It was informative. I haven't implied you gave me anything but good advice.

I also asked for ages to give it. You gave no indication. I did, however, miss what Taylorbaby said about weeks and i have apologised.

I then asked if panacur was always 3 consequetive days, as i have heard different reports elsewhere and Taylorbaby contradicted the advice that Milbemax give with their wormer so i wanted to make sure that it was indeed given every 3 days for every type of worming. I have no experience of it as i used to use Drontal but now use Milbemax on my adult cats.

I am honestly not trying to wind people up but i am getting frustrated at the hostility. I can understand clearly why people feel the need to go it alone now when people can't give advice without coming accross to new users as hostile and judgemental. Would you all rather i did it correctly and did enough research before the kittens actually arrive??


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

You were the one who was 'hostile' first as nobody flocked to your post.

No one was hostile til you called the advice poor:



> Nobody has mentioned what age they worm at either.
> 
> I find it odd that on a forum that has a lot of breeders, not many people are willing to share their experience.
> 
> I feel like it's a special group that will not let outsiders in *i feel like i'm banging my head against a wall trying to get some advice from people* so that i know all the answers when i have my kittens and can make the best decision given the evidence i have (*which, so far, is very poor*).


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## lechatnoir83 (Jun 24, 2011)

Before this gets out of hand and people feel there is further hostility I've re-read your posts and think perhaps you were expecting a quicker response than you got? 

Forums are great for bouncing around ideas, getting advice or new knowledge. However no matter how great the people are (and believe me I've seen some brilliant stuff and only been on here since June - its not a special club trust me) they do have lives, pets of their own and probably jobs so if you need a more urgent response then do contact a vet or your mentor you have mentioned. 

You will get a lot of contrasting advice because everyone will have had different experiences of all medicines and treatments, remember its their opinion. You have to try things and go with what you feel is best. If ever in doubt then trust the vet... that way if something does go wrong then you know they are the person who knows what has gone on and can hopefully fix any negative reaction. 

All the best.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

sparkle23 said:


> And thank you for your original post. It was informative. I haven't implied you gave me anything but good advice.
> 
> I also asked for ages to give it. You gave no indication. I did, however, miss what Taylorbaby said about weeks and i have apologised.
> 
> ...


lol just because I dont use it doesnt make it wrong, others might use it with graet results, Iuse what I know and have been recomended to by many breeders and used myself for years with no problems, so I stick with it! even your breeder had abad expereince with it! exactly as above, all of this is only our views doesnt make it wrong or right, someone might come along and say panacur paste is crap and use xxx!

so again panacur paste or liquid for 3 days at 4-8-12weeks of age, its all on the bottle!


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## sparkle23 (Jun 28, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> You were the one who was 'hostile' first as nobody flocked to your post.
> 
> No one was hostile til you called the advice poor:


It wasn't the advice that was poor, it was the amount of people that had offered advice. I should have mad that clear, so i am sorry.

The felt some hostility on my previous thread by taylorbaby until i made it clear i had done my research. Although, i admit, it is difficult to read hostility on a forum but i definately felt i was being unfairly jusdged too quickly.

People seem to misunderstand some things. I never questioned TB choice of milbemax, i just used that as an example to why i asked if panacur is always 3 days in a row. Just because it says on the bottle is not necessarily what everyone does as tried and tested in ALL areas of it's use. Milbemax is marketted as can be used from 6 weeks of age. My vet pushes it. I do not like it, nor want to use it. My mentor almost lost her entire litter by using it, but 1 did die. I use it for my adults with no issues but do not want to risk using it on my kittens.

I was more interested in when to worm really seeing as that is where the advice differs so much... again, when i ask my vet he says 6 weeks with Milbemax. I do not want to do that and he doesn't like to use Panacur.

I perhaps was expecting a quicker response as the otehr posts had answers on them so maybe i jumped in too quickly. That said, nobody else has replied on my weaning question for a while so i guess that won't get any more input other than the kind words that were sent to me from a few posters by PM.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

sparkle23 said:


> It wasn't the advice that was poor, it was the amount of people that had offered advice. I should have mad that clear, so i am sorry.
> 
> The felt some hostility on my previous thread by taylorbaby until i made it clear i had done my research. Although, i admit, it is difficult to read hostility on a forum but i definately felt i was being unfairly jusdged too quickly.
> 
> ...


just read that thread I wasnt being hostile and gave a massive reply to you at the end you never replied to? No one has judged you at all, I think you are reading way to much into things on here, its a forum people have given you advice on both threads, Im not sure what else you are looking for?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

sparkle23 said:


> It wasn't the advice that was poor, it was the amount of people that had offered advice. I should have mad that clear, so i am sorry.
> 
> The felt some hostility on my previous thread by taylorbaby until i made it clear i had done my research. Although, i admit, it is difficult to read hostility on a forum but i definately felt i was being unfairly jusdged too quickly.
> 
> ...


That your mentor feels she lost almost an entire litter as a result of using Milbemax is worrying and, quite honestly, a bit puzzling. It's a high quality wormer and used at the correct weight/dose/age regime... was it actually ever confirmed that she lost the kittens as a direct result of its use? I ask out of genuine interest as I'm considering changing to Milbemax from Drontal for my older kittens.

I don't think it's crucial, the ages at which you worm kittens (unless 'you' are convinced or know that you have a very wormy litter of kittens at a VERY young age when its obviously best done asap according to the product data sheet) which is why the advice/opinions here have varied.

I worm my kittens at 4 and 8 weeks with Panacur liquid (always for 3 consecutive days), with the correct amount/weight from a 1ml syringe. At 12 weeks when they're obviously much bigger and you need an increased amount of Panacur I sometimes find it difficult to get that much into a kitten without it being spat and flung everywhere and use Drontal at that time.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> when i ask my vet he says 6 weeks with Milbemax. I do not want to do that and he doesn't like to use Panacur.


That is really weird as it's considered one of the safest wormers around for young kittens. I'd be interested to know why he doesn't rate it. Cynical old me thinks it might be because he happened to have Milbemax in stock and not Panacur or his offer on Milbemax from the supplier depends on a sales period or profit margins or, or, or....

My only definitive rule for worming is to keep it separated from vaccs by at least a week so 5/6 weeks and 8 weeks works well. If you do this then you'll know what causes a problem if you have one. I know vets love to vaccinate, worm and flea treat all in one go but if there is a reaction in a kitten/cat there's no knowing what caused it if they're all done together.



> I ask out of genuine interest as I'm considering changing to Milbemax from Drontal for my older kittens


I've been using Milbemax for years with older kittens and never had a problem. Maybe my protocol of ensuring only one procedure at a time has something to do with it, I don't know. How you ever got Drontal into kittens is a mystery to me - I reckon I'd have problems getting one down a horse.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

havoc said:


> How you ever got Drontal into kittens is a mystery to me - I reckon I'd have problems getting one down a horse.


With great difficulty at times, even quartered and given in two goes, especially considering they know what's coming after the first quarter.

My vet wormed one of my queens with a Milbemax; I seems to recall the tablet being very small?

As an aside, do you have an opinion on how long an opened bottle of Panacur liquid might last (in the fridge) ? It's almost a year away from its use by date but I'm assuming that date relates to an unopened bottle.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Milbemax are wonderfully small and easy to get down kittens. I've only used them for the final worming which I do either at 11 weeks or just before they leave keeping that week apart from vaccs.

How long does an opened bottle of Panacur keep in the fridge? I really don't know. The datasheet has no information other than don't freeze, don't store above 25 degrees, protect from frost and keep the bottle in the outer container. From that info I'd suspect exposure to light may be an issue. As far as I'm aware keeping it in the fridge is unnecessary and may be counter-productive as it says to protect from frost.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

havoc said:


> Milbemax are wonderfully small and easy to get down kittens. I've only used them for the final worming which I do either at 11 weeks or just before they leave keeping that week apart from vaccs.
> 
> How long does an opened bottle of Panacur keep in the fridge? I really don't know. The datasheet has no information other than don't freeze, don't store above 25 degrees, protect from frost and keep the bottle in the outer container. From that info I'd suspect exposure to light may be an issue. As far as I'm aware keeping it in the fridge is unnecessary and may be counter-productive as it says to protect from frost.


Rather regretting having just ordered a dozen Drontal. Milbemax next time then.

Good point about possibly not refrigerating the Panacur. My vet was very unsure on the same question and suggested I buy the 2.5% (for obvious reasons). Or, of course, I could just buy a smaller bottle of 10% 

Larger bottle = greater saving but no good, of course, if you feel the need to throw it away, partly unused. Current bottle was first opened 7 months ago.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I think I'd be happy enough at 7 months as long as the bottle has not been contaminated. I pour some into a small container and draw it up into syringes from that. I discard any left over in the container so the contents of the bottle have never been touched by anything. I tend to have to look at an order history to know how long I've had a bottle and if it's quite a while then I will use it up on adult cats. You can do a one off dose for adults so possible to get away with it once in a while as they don't get wise as they would for days 2 & 3

I have only ever used the 10%. Presumably you have to get more at a time of the 2.5% into a kitten. The 10% dosage is 0.1ml per 100g body weight/1ml per kilo.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

That's what puts me off of using the 2.5% - the need to get more into each kitten. Five out of a litter seven vomitted within 24 hours of being dosed at 8 weeks on the second day from my current bottle. Mentioned this to my vet who suggested mixing it with food instead. Did that on the third day which was a bit laborious and involved teaspoon sized amounts of foods first thing in the morning for each kitten but no more vomitting, at least. Never had that problem previously with Pancacur liquid which is why I pondered on how long the bottle had been open; though I also pour a tiny amount into a separate container for drawing up.


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## sparkle23 (Jun 28, 2011)

Gosh, quite a lot of discussion. To answer a few questions.

My mentor used Milbemax to worm her kittens at 6 weeks old. They all developed vomiting and diarhoea within 12 hours which lasted several days. She was giving them lectade to hydrate (think that's what it is). Think she used fortiflora, synulox from the vets and other things. One kitten just wasted away and refused to eat. She's convinced it was the wormer as there was no other indication/change. Could have been a coincindence though 

My vet prefers Milbemax probably because they have posters advertising it and don't sell anything else without special orders. Probably has a contract with them :frown2:

I use Milbemax on my older cats as it is tiny, not had any problems. Just have to make sure it's appropriate to their weight, which you do with all wormers anyhow.

Thank you for your input. 
Sorry if i was a grump.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> My vet prefers Milbemax probably because they have posters advertising it and don't sell anything else without special orders


When I first started using Milbemax on older kittens I had to get a prescription from my vet and buy it elsewhere. My vet was not at all happy and very derogatory because he'd 'never heard of it' and it therefore couldn't be any good. A year later the waiting room was covered in posters with special offers for ...................... Milbemax. 
Vets stock whatever reps convince them to stock and inducements are offered all the time. It doesn't mean they would prescribe an inappropriate product but it does mean they will prescribe what they can make a profit on ahead of writing a prescription to be filled elsewhere for the *most* appropriate.


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