# Is she/Isn't she?



## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

First off, hello to everyone, have spent about a week reading lots of posts on here and thought it about time I wrote something myself.
I have a little Chi boy (Rudi) and a Chi x YorkiexDaschund girl (Millie), who had some ahem, 'alone-time', about 7 or 8 weeks ago but I just can't for the life of me decide if I think she's in pup or not! She's put on a fair bit of weight and is looking 'booby' (no milk though) with some hair loss on her belly, and she's eating and sleeping more. 

So some days I look at her and think, yep, definitely, then other days it just seems like her belly is all soft and just chubby, rather than kind of firm and pregnant, and she's just taking a long time to come back down from being on heat.
Rudi has over the past few days been sniffing at her a lot and has even made attempts to mount her, albeit very unsuccessfully as she's just wandered off uninterested after humouring him and letting him paw at her for a few minutes; another sign she might be almost due?? She's also going to the bathroom like a trooper - seriously, I don't know where it's coming from!

Now i'm not irresponsible, we have taken a trip to the vets and he couldn't tell through palpitation - offered a scan but seeing as were already due to have boosters etc (hers were held off in case of pregnancy) decided against another £50 bill - but the vet reckons if he had to say either way he'd go with more likely she is pregnant than not. 
Argh it's so confusing, I wish she could just tell us, otherwise will be very disappointed as me and OH have made all arrangements just in case she IS, and poor old Rudi is off for the chop as we can't cope with him weeing everywhere anymore lol! So this is like only chance really...
Anyway, i've written clearly far too much, but if anyone knows of any other little signs I could look out for?


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Did you want to breed them? 

Why do you want to breed?

Are they health tested?


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

If she is about 8 weeks you should be able feel them also a pic off the belly might help!


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

yes we did want to breed, the breeder we got Millie from had successfully bred about 4 litters from two different bitches (one being her mother) and all (apart from one umbilical hernia) 100% healthy, have easily found homes and made fantastic pets - they're very Chi like in personality but just that bit more robust and friendly to strangers, so more of a versatile type. Before even considering breeding i've had offers for puppies from people, as she is quite unusual, so thought we'd try one litter with our own boy before he got the snip, bless him. What with them being non-pedigree pups it's clearly not about the money or anything - i am fully aware there is a lot of 'frowning upon' of people breeding for pleasure so please rest assured we wouldn't be going ahead with anything if we weren't entirely confident there would be ample demand for the litter.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> yes we did want to breed, the breeder we got Millie from had successfully bred about 4 litters from two different bitches (one being her mother) and all (apart from one umbilical hernia) 100% healthy, have easily found homes and made fantastic pets - they're very Chi like in personality but just that bit more robust and friendly to strangers, so more of a versatile type. Before even considering breeding i've had offers for puppies from people, as she is quite unusual, so thought we'd try one litter with our own boy before he got the snip, bless him. What with them being non-pedigree pups it's clearly not about the money or anything - i am fully aware there is a lot of 'frowning upon' of people breeding for pleasure so please rest assured we wouldn't be going ahead with anything if we weren't entirely confident there would be ample demand for the litter.


However, they both still need to be health tested. Bitches don't need an experience of a litter and you risk losing the bitch and raising the pups yourself.


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## Spaniel mad (Jul 17, 2009)

you should deffo be able to see them moving now if she was and as for milk some bitches dont loose milk til shes had the pups


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

AprilBlossom said:


> First off, hello to everyone, have spent about a week reading lots of posts on here and thought it about time I wrote something myself.
> I have a little Chi boy (Rudi) and a Chi x YorkiexDaschund girl (Millie), who had some ahem, 'alone-time', about 7 or 8 weeks ago but I just can't for the life of me decide if I think she's in pup or not! She's put on a fair bit of weight and is looking 'booby' (no milk though) with some hair loss on her belly, and she's eating and sleeping more.
> 
> So some days I look at her and think, yep, definitely, then other days it just seems like her belly is all soft and just chubby, rather than kind of firm and pregnant, and she's just taking a long time to come back down from being on heat.
> ...


to be honest with you the extra £50 for the scan is nothing compared to what you might have to pay out if , and i did say if, she gets into any difficulty whelping the puppies? i would get her scanned for peace of mind and at least you would be prepared


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

Like I said in my original post, I have taken her to the vet recently - both have had regular checkups since tiny puppies so any problems we would have been aware of, and had there been something likely to be hereditary wouldn't have got into this situation in the first place. Thanks for questioning my reasons 'SEVEN_PETS' I understand and share your concerns about unwanted puppies/dogs etc and it is nice to see that people genuinely care, however it's not really helping answer my query lol 

Spaniel mad - this is where I drive myself crazy, sitting with her looking at and with hands on her belly and some days i'm convinced theyre moving about in there, other days I just think it's her wobbling her belly/breathing super-deeply lol! How far forward/back should I be able to feel it?


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## Spaniel mad (Jul 17, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> Like I said in my original post, I have taken her to the vet recently - both have had regular checkups since tiny puppies so any problems we would have been aware of, and had there been something likely to be hereditary wouldn't have got into this situation in the first place. Thanks for questioning my reasons 'SEVEN_PETS' I understand and share your concerns about unwanted puppies/dogs etc and it is nice to see that people genuinely care, however it's not really helping answer my query lol
> 
> Spaniel mad - this is where I drive myself crazy, sitting with her looking at and with hands on her belly and some days i'm convinced theyre moving about in there, other days I just think it's her wobbling her belly/breathing super-deeply lol! How far forward/back should I be able to feel it?


They can hide high up in the rib cage. I know Stroms were bery active but she had 11 so loads of feet. if your bitch just has 1 or 2 maybe its harded to tell

Unless you get the vet to scan or feel himself you will just have to wait and see what surprise you get


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> to be honest with you the extra £50 for the scan is nothing compared to what you might have to pay out if , and i did say if, she gets into any difficulty whelping the puppies? i would get her scanned for peace of mind and at least you would be prepared


Gotta take Rudi back to vets for second half of booster jab on Fri anyway (he advised against jabbing her in case she was pregnant and so she may get hers then if she's not) and of course Millie will go for the ride. If he can't tell then and advises a scan then she will be scanned up. I guess i'm just impatient!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

AprilBlossom said:


> Like I said in my original post, I have taken her to the vet recently - both have had regular checkups since tiny puppies so any problems we would have been aware of, and had there been something likely to be hereditary wouldn't have got into this situation in the first place. Thanks for questioning my reasons 'SEVEN_PETS' I understand and share your concerns about unwanted puppies/dogs etc and it is nice to see that people genuinely care, however it's not really helping answer my query lol
> 
> Spaniel mad - this is where I drive myself crazy, sitting with her looking at and with hands on her belly and some days i'm convinced theyre moving about in there, other days I just think it's her wobbling her belly/breathing super-deeply lol! How far forward/back should I be able to feel it?


this is why you would be much better getting her scanned if you had a sheep scanner he could probably tell you roughly how far along she is too what area are you?


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

AprilBlossom said:


> Gotta take Rudi back to vets for second half of booster jab on Fri anyway (he advised against jabbing her in case she was pregnant and so she may get hers then if she's not) and of course Millie will go for the ride. If he can't tell then and advises a scan then she will be scanned up. I guess i'm just impatient!


to be honest the vet scans are not very good anyway, but like spaniel mad has said there could be just 1 ( hopefully not, because that in itself could cause terrible problems) or maybe 2 puppies hiding up high which the vet couldnt feel


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

West Midlands. Wouldn't a sheep scanner be like, the size of her whole body?!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

AprilBlossom said:


> West Midlands. Wouldn't a sheep scanner be like, the size of her whole body?!


lol, no the sheep scanner has a scanning machine he would only need to put a little oil on her belly and run the thingy over her ( like the hospitals) he would normally come to your house


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

Im sure you would be able feel them but defo get a scan done like others have said!


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

Forgot say did you see them tie?


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah, numerous times...lol


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

haha ok did her girly bits stay swollen after

thats the first thing i notice on mine even before a scan


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

hmm.... Going to loo more than several times a day, large nipples, eating loads, larger belly!!!! sounds like she is to me (but im no expert) My girl has her 1st little due in 2 weeks time and she's is the same , well she's off her food at the mo, but has been eating loads (take a look at my other post 'pregnant dog off her food' I posted some belly pics on there about page 4 i think!)


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

Just took a look (she's a cute one!  )and Millie's belly is similar, except her nipples are more protruding and she's got more obvious 'boobs'. Did try and take a picture but she kept getting all shy, then Rudi got his big head in the way, the little poser! Thanks for suggesting, i'd say i'm 85% confident she is...
Cav, yeah her bits have been massive ever since pretty much!


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

if she mated 7-8 weeks ago she may only have 1-2 weeks to delivery day? I would have thought by now you would have seen some movement or at the very least felt some movement, if she is not pregnant there may be some other problem, because of you mentioning the weeing and your male trying to mount her, she could have a urinary infection, but going by your discription I would say there is a strong possibility she is pregnant, I hope you are prepared for the pups arriving and have homes lined up for them, 

Mo


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> Just took a look (she's a cute one!  )and Millie's belly is similar, except her nipples are more protruding and she's got more obvious 'boobs'. Did try and take a picture but she kept getting all shy, then Rudi got his big head in the way, the little poser! Thanks for suggesting, i'd say i'm 85% confident she is...
> Cav, yeah her bits have been massive ever since pretty much!


arrr.... bless. I reckon she is 
But I would get her scanned asap hun, to check numbers (as 1 pup could cause probs) and give you a rough due date!
Have you started worming her yet?
Have you got her on puppy food?
There is lots to get organised before pups arrive, hmm and lots to buy! Its cost me a small fortune getting whelping kit together, but worth it!
You must stick around on here, I have learnt so much from some lovely people on here already


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah we've got next to perfect (as perfect would be keeping them lol) homes with excited potential new owners crossing their fingers for safe arrival of pups! Will just have to wait and see what vet says, it's just too exciting, like waiting for Christmas!!


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

sorry, but these dogs should be health tested. if she's not pregnant, then you're lucky and you should get them both health tested. 

also if people can't afford full price chi's, then they shouldn't have a dog as they would not be able to pay the vets fees.


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

Lucylewis0 said:


> arrr.... bless. I reckon she is
> But I would get her scanned asap hun, to check numbers (as 1 pup could cause probs) and give you a rough due date!
> Have you started worming her yet?
> Have you got her on puppy food?
> ...


Not putting her on puppy food, was advised against this, but yep, the worming has begun. Yeah everyone does seem really nice on here, bar a few opinionated *****s lol who seem to be spoiling it. I do hope it's a minority who think i'm irresponsible, as I am shocked and appalled to have already been accused of being only interested in money and breeding 'designer dogs'. I think when you get a mutt and a mutt together, you ain't creating anything designer!


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> Not putting her on puppy food, was advised against this, but yep, the worming has begun. Yeah everyone does seem really nice on here, bar a few opinionated *****s lol who seem to be spoiling it. I do hope it's a minority who think i'm irresponsible, as I am shocked and appalled to have already been accused of being only interested in money and breeding 'designer dogs'. I think when you get a mutt and a mutt together, you ain't creating anything designer!


and i can't believe you are backyard breeding and people on here (who have been here for ages) are actively encouraging it. she doesn't want to do health tests either.


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> and i can't believe you are backyard breeding and people on here (who have been here for ages) are actively encouraging it. she doesn't want to do health tests either.


There is no need to 'health test' when both my dogs are regular vet-checked and no KC hip/eye/heart scores to be concerned about as i'm not producing breeding or showing stock!
I appreciate you don't agree with it, but you've had your say, please stop trying to make me look bad. I have nothing to hide, and as i've explained to you in a PM it's too late to stop it now anyway, so stop berating me!


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> There is no need to 'health test' when both my dogs are regular vet-checked and no KC hip/eye/heart scores to be concerned about as i'm not producing breeding or showing stock!
> I appreciate you don't agree with it, but you've had your say, please stop trying to make me look bad. I have nothing to hide, and as i've explained to you in a PM it's too late to stop it now anyway, so stop berating me!


you should be concerned about hip/eye/heart scores because that means healthy puppies. do you want your future puppies to be in pain and the future owners to have to pay huge vets fees to get it fixed?


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> There is no need to 'health test' when both my dogs are regular vet-checked and no KC hip/eye/heart scores to be concerned about as i'm not producing breeding or showing stock!
> I appreciate you don't agree with it, but you've had your say, please stop trying to make me look bad. I have nothing to hide, and as i've explained to you in a PM it's too late to stop it now anyway, so stop berating me!


That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard of course there is a need for the required health tests???? makes no difference if they are to be shown or not.

Mo


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

*chi's heath proble*ms
Patellar Luxation, Progressive Retinal Atrophy,Hydrocephalus,hypothyroidism,Cystinuria,Mitral Valve Disease,
*yorkie*Patellar luxation 
Portosystemic shunt (Liver Shunt) 
Retinal dysplasis 
Tracheal collapse 
*dach*.Intervertebral Disk Disease ,Seizures,Mammary Tumors , to name just a few, and you say you dont need to health test?

Mo


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## pommum (Jun 16, 2008)

I;m not wanting to start any arguements on here as I am not the type of person who does so, but I am fed up of people insisting of health tests, not all breeds and yes I am talking about pedigree's here are health tested you check through all the breeds on the kc register, not all are health tested, I know my breed isn't but I know that by picking the correct bloodlines etc I have stayed clear of any possible problems in my breed, my dogs all get regular health checks with the vets and also through long time fellow exhibitors/breeders who have been mentor and good friends. The majority of toy breeds don't require any health testing. I personally would like to see it were if oyu want to breed a litter of a specific breed then both sire and dam should have been checked by the breed clubs and thne before the litter can be sold they too should be checked over by someone of high standing with in the breed club to say whether the litter is of quality to be A) regostered and B) used to breed on from. I also think that if you wish to start breeding your dogs it should be totally licensed but thats my honest opinion.

right I have said my piece I will go off to my quiet corner again.

take care

Sarah


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

all breeds (most) have health problems and should be health tested.

what about these health problems for poms? these should all be health tested.

http://www.mbfonline.com/pomhealth/


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> all breeds (most) have health problems and should be health tested.
> 
> what about these health problems for poms? these should all be health tested.
> 
> Pomeranian Health Problems


I'll back down because i only wanted to join a forum where I could get some advice from what I thought were knowledgable, friendly people. I guess I was wrong, and therefore will leave you with the sense of self-importance you're looking for SEVEN_PETS and go it alone (or with the help of vet if needed). 
What a shame.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> I'll back down because i only wanted to join a forum where I could get some advice from what I thought were knowledgable, friendly people. I guess I was wrong, and therefore will leave you with the sense of self-importance you're looking for SEVEN_PETS and go it alone (or with the help of vet if needed).
> What a shame.


i just think it's a shame you can't heed the advice and do what's right by your dogs and your future puppies.

shame.


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> i just think it's a shame you can't heed the advice and do what's right by your dogs and your future puppies.
> 
> shame.


Yeah, it is a shame it's too late for that now. I'm just a RUBBISH dog owner and I don't care about them at all. In fact, I can spy one of them now trying to climb out of the window and escape - had best go and catch her otherwise no money from backyard puppy-farming for me!ut: You win


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> you should be concerned about hip/eye/heart scores because that means healthy puppies. do you want your future puppies to be in pain and the future owners to have to pay huge vets fees to get it fixed?


its to late for that now anyway, 
so surely the next best thing we can do is at least try and help to make sure the whelp goes as well as possible and give whatever advise we can on rearing the pups.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

ninja said:


> its to late for that now anyway,
> so surely the next best thing we can do is at least try and help to make sure the whelp goes as well as possible and give whatever advise we can on rearing the pups.


because if she isn't in pup, she's breed again with no health tests. yes, if the dog is definitely in pup, there is nothing you can do, but you should at least educate so she doesn't do it again.


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

Why does it always have to turn nasty??????? 

The thread was about is she/isn't she? and they were asking if other people/breeder thought their dog was expecting! 

They were not asking about health testing and as always they now feel they are bad people and feel completly pushed away!!!


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> because if she isn't in pup, she's breed again with no health tests. yes, if the dog is definitely in pup, there is nothing you can do, but you should at least educate so she doesn't do it again.


believe me i am against puppy farmers and byb as much as anyone,

but until we know whether she is in pup we should be presuming she is cos it sounds more than probable,

if it turns out she isnt then start and educate for the future, going on about it at the moment isnt going to help.


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## manicmania (Sep 25, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> Not putting her on puppy food, was advised against this, but yep, the worming has begun. Yeah everyone does seem really nice on here, bar a few opinionated *****s lol who seem to be spoiling it. I do hope it's a minority who think i'm irresponsible, as I am shocked and appalled to have already been accused of being only interested in money and breeding 'designer dogs'. I think when you get a mutt and a mutt together, you ain't creating anything designer!


I will be one of your opinionated *****s Page 3 you quoted above and yet no one posted about designer dogs. Anyway no advice I am willing to give buy Good Luck


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS I urge you to read my original post - we're getting Rudi neutered in a couple of weeks, so if we don't end up with a litter soon, we won't be having any more, end of. This wasn't an accident, nor was it an overly planned thing -yes, i'm sure there are plenty of you who will want to 'tell me off' for that, but hey, at least i'm open enough to admit it! They're my dogs and their health is of the utmost importance, so why would I even consider going through with something if the risks were high? I've got contacts in the form of the breeders both dogs came from, who would have fully informed me of any health problems going back on both sides, 3 generations!
You're very keen to jump on the offensive, so much so that getting all of the information is overlooked on occasion maybe?
Ninja, your little dog animation is hilarious! Is it your dog in it?


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

I think you're an irresponsible dog owner. I'm in agreement with Pommum here, by knowing her lines, she has produced healthy and very nice puppies, but there is no way OP can know the blood lines of her two dogs. Chi's, Yorkies and Dachs have their own individual problems, so you really should health test your dogs before breeding occurs even if they are just for pet/companions. New puppy owners have the right to know what sort of health problems the puppies might be subject to!

Just fyi, if you charge money for these dogs, you could get sued if they develop genetic conditions such as hip dysplasia or patellar luxation at young age. A woman was sued for £20,000+ because she bred her dysplastic dog to a bitch that produced dysplastic puppies (diagnosed by 5 months of age!).

I think it is very irresponsible to just jump the gun and produce puppies with little thought into the sort of life you are sentancing those puppies to.

You should get your dogs altered after the puppies are born. Considering you weren't even prepared to pay the £50 for a scan, you certainly will get a surprise if your bitch has a hard time pushing out the large headed chi x yorkie x dach puppies. Upwards of £1000 mate. While I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, and I wish you the best of luck, I do not think you're prepared for the expenses that can follow a mating.


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

irresponsible springs to mind......

mabey i should have bred my crossbreed mut before now.... could have made a fortune....lol


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

i'm sorry that i was a bit pushy and jumped the gun a bit, but i'm very passionate about dogs being health tested and bred for the right reasons, and it just felt like the OP was just letting the two together when she was in season when they clearly weren't or ever going to be health tested and she wouldn't even pay for a £50 scan.


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

nic101 said:


> irresponsible springs to mind......
> 
> mabey i should have bred my crossbreed mut before now.... could have made a fortune....lol


You won't make any money. It's gonna cost money not rake it in lol! I'm fully aware of that, just want to make sure you get that as i'm in no way doing this for financial gain. (the OH seems to think we will but lets just not tell him i've already got freebie homes lined up :wink5: men!)


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> i'm sorry that i was a bit pushy and jumped the gun a bit, but i'm very passionate about dogs being health tested and bred for the right reasons, and it just felt like the OP was just letting the two together when she was in season when they clearly weren't or ever going to be health tested and she wouldn't even pay for a £50 scan.


The vet had said at the time he can scan her now but he would err on the side of positive, and again, as mentioned earlier, theyre going back to vets on Fri so if he's not sure then or recommends it, she'll have a scanner whipped over her! 
What dogs have you bred SEVEN_PETS, small or large types? And how did you get on with it? Seeing as you're knowledgeable and like to post (lol) i'd like to hear about your experiences


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> The vet had said at the time he can scan her now but he would err on the side of positive, and again, as mentioned earlier, theyre going back to vets on Fri so if he's not sure then or recommends it, she'll have a scanner whipped over her!
> What dogs have you bred SEVEN_PETS, small or large types? And how did you get on with it? Seeing as you're knowledgeable and like to post (lol) i'd like to hear about your experiences


i don't breed. my dog's neutered cos i don't want to bring more puppies into the world. although i am on an animal care course so do know a bit of what i'm talking about.


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## pommum (Jun 16, 2008)

AprilBlossom said:


> I'll back down because i only wanted to join a forum where I could get some advice from what I thought were knowledgable, friendly people. I guess I was wrong, and therefore will leave you with the sense of self-importance you're looking for SEVEN_PETS and go it alone (or with the help of vet if needed).
> What a shame.


If you checked were you get your info from you will find the the breed here in the UK can suffer with problem as can many other breeds, but you will also find that the health issues you have found there are not just poms it is toy breeds in general, poms as a whole do not suffer from a specific issue that is just to do with our breed.
Do you breed?
Do you show?
If not please stop having ago at folk on this forum as it is members like yourself that push new members away.

Yes look out for dogs but peole have com on for a little advice if all you can do is have ago at them and by the sounds of it send childish pm's to them, then this is obviously not the forum it once was. there are long time members on here that have a life time of breeding behind them that give fantastic advice, say the slightest thing wrong and banned yet others seem to get away with with being very pushy and making new members feel really unwelcomed.

I myself have been a member on here since early last year and very rarely post because so many others tend to be so quick to judge others and jump to conclusions that they are all back street breeders or puppy farmers.
The OP on this thred had come on for some advice not to be got at, yet another poor new member that has been pushed away, with the possibilities of a bitch that may have problems with her birth and experienced people on here would have been able to help but will no not be able to give that sort after advice that she came for because she has been chased off.

I myself will no longer be posting on this forum as it is getting out of control tbh.

It used to be such a nice place with people giving great advice, now all you all seem to do is judge people you don't even know.

a very annoyed Sarah


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## majortom (May 7, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> First off, hello to everyone, have spent about a week reading lots of posts on here and thought it about time I wrote something myself.
> I have a little Chi boy (Rudi) and a Chi x YorkiexDaschund girl (Millie), who had some ahem, 'alone-time', about 7 or 8 weeks ago but I just can't for the life of me decide if I think she's in pup or not! She's put on a fair bit of weight and is looking 'booby' (no milk though) with some hair loss on her belly, and she's eating and sleeping more.
> 
> So some days I look at her and think, yep, definitely, then other days it just seems like her belly is all soft and just chubby, rather than kind of firm and pregnant, and she's just taking a long time to come back down from being on heat.
> ...


if you are not into paying for a scan to see if she is in pup
what are you going to do if she needs a caersarian
that could be up to a £1000
and as far as homes allready for pups
you will be amazed how many buyers drop out once pups are on the groung
have you health tested
if anything is wrong with pups after they are sold
you could find yourself being sued
as for making money
more likely it will cost you
don,t understand why you wanted to breed
plenty of crossbreeds in rescue centres
all looking for good homes


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## majortom (May 7, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> Like I said in my original post, I have taken her to the vet recently - both have had regular checkups since tiny puppies so any problems we would have been aware of, and had there been something likely to be hereditary wouldn't have got into this situation in the first place. Thanks for questioning my reasons 'SEVEN_PETS' I understand and share your concerns about unwanted puppies/dogs etc and it is nice to see that people genuinely care, however it's not really helping answer my query lol
> 
> Spaniel mad - this is where I drive myself crazy, sitting with her looking at and with hands on her belly and some days i'm convinced theyre moving about in there, other days I just think it's her wobbling her belly/breathing super-deeply lol! How far forward/back should I be able to feel it?


they only way to find out if there is anything hereditary is to do health tests
vet can not tell just by looking at them
so you don,t know


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

majortom said:


> they only way to find out if there is anything hereditary is to do health tests
> vet can not tell just by looking at them
> so you don,t know


major tom - exactly what i've been trying to say.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

*ONCE AGAIN people putting off new members! If you want this forum to grow and survive we NEED new memebers (to replace the banned people) I think if you don't like what this lady is doing then BACK OFF and ignore the thread. It REALLY is THAT simple!!!!! I really don't understand some people I am getting SO FED up of this place.  I feel sorry for newbies.

PLEASE STAY, not everyone is SO pathetic *


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> *ONCE AGAIN people putting off new members! If you want this forum to grow and survive we NEED new memebers (to replace the banned people) I think if you don't like what this lady is doing then BACK OFF and ignore the thread. It REALLY is THAT simple!!!!! I really don't understand some people I am getting SO FED up of this place.  I feel sorry for newbies.
> 
> PLEASE STAY, not everyone is SO pathetic *


but we need to say it how it is. should we just say "oh there there, it'll be alright. your puppies may die young cos they aren't health tested but it'll be alright". sorry i don't work like that, i say what needs to be said.


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## majortom (May 7, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> and i can't believe you are backyard breeding and people on here (who have been here for ages) are actively encouraging it. she doesn't want to do health tests either.


tottally agree with you
another lot of pups bred and not a thought for health testing
or anything else
maybe a visit to a rescue centre should be a requirment to people
who insist on breeding any 2 dogs together
just to see how many of these so called designer dogs are in them


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## manicmania (Sep 25, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> but we need to say it how it is. should we just say "oh there there, it'll be alright. your puppies may die young cos they aren't health tested but it'll be alright". sorry i don't work like that, i say what needs to be said.


Advice-- walk away you will only get minimal support and bad rep lol as Responsible breeders seemingly on here are all banned


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## majortom (May 7, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> There is no need to 'health test' when both my dogs are regular vet-checked and no KC hip/eye/heart scores to be concerned about as i'm not producing breeding or showing stock!
> I appreciate you don't agree with it, but you've had your say, please stop trying to make me look bad. I have nothing to hide, and as i've explained to you in a PM it's too late to stop it now anyway, so stop berating me!


back yard breeders don,t health test
you can not know if they will not have any hereditry problems
cos you have not tested


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> i say what needs to be said.


but in this case its like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted and is about 100 miles away,


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> but we need to say it how it is. should we just say "oh there there, it'll be alright. your puppies may die young cos they aren't health tested but it'll be alright". sorry i don't work like that, i say what needs to be said.


If her puppies die young that's her problem, not yours. You are wasting your breath because people will always do what they want to do. A health tested puppy could also die young. Sh*t Happens. I also don't think you can tar her with the same brush as a BYB by having one litter really. Think she's gone now anyways, so that's one more person lost on here. 

She may have seen the error in her ways. Bred another litter properly with health tests etc and come on here for advice, I doubt she will now!!! Shame.


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## MDF (Sep 29, 2009)

.................................


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> You won't make any money. It's gonna cost money not rake it in lol! I'm fully aware of that, just want to make sure you get that as i'm in no way doing this for financial gain. (the OH seems to think we will but lets just not tell him i've already got freebie homes lined up :wink5: men!)


sarcasm from me there hun!!!

see im *responsible*.... my dogs have been done.

i have no intention of breeding crossbreeds (which is what your doing).....
when theres tons of FREE crossbreeds at shelters....

my dogs a crossbreed - who i love to bits and would never ever have bred from her as pretty/intelligent as she is i 1. dont see the point of adding to numbers of dogs and 2. i couldnt bear the thought of loosing her (which is a possibility with breeding)

ive lost count of the amount of people asking me if im going to breed my dog (obviously she has been done - has been from 6 months - now 3). cause shes pretty.... yeh and? shes a cross... she shouldnt be bred from based off just that....

have i been tempted to breed her?? yeah course..for a split second and thought of the nice puppies - then head took over and told me the reasons listed above,,,

from your posts you sound young and immature..... and major*lol* at the *'my dogs have been chcked by the vet so dont need health testing....* wow - major lack of knowledge there.....and research and care for your dog

i hope to god your dog isnt having pups and you take note of the posts people have said and i posted....


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

casandra said:


> I think you're an irresponsible dog owner. I'm in agreement with Pommum here, by knowing her lines, she has produced healthy and very nice puppies, but there is no way OP can know the blood lines of her two dogs. Chi's, Yorkies and Dachs have their own individual problems, so you really should health test your dogs before breeding occurs even if they are just for pet/companions. New puppy owners have the right to know what sort of health problems the puppies might be subject to!
> 
> Just fyi, if you charge money for these dogs, you could get sued if they develop genetic conditions such as hip dysplasia or patellar luxation at young age. A woman was sued for £20,000+ because she bred her dysplastic dog to a bitch that produced dysplastic puppies (diagnosed by 5 months of age!).
> 
> ...


This is is a cracking post! It takes a hell of a lot of very hard work to know your breeding stock, but mistakes can be made all the same, where the simple rules of testing would give you a definite answer surely? 
Great post again


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## majortom (May 7, 2009)

!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AprilBlossom View Post
You won't make any money. It's gonna cost money not rake it in lol! I'm fully aware of that, just want to make sure you get that as i'm in no way doing this for financial gain. (the OH seems to think we will but lets just not tell him i've already got freebie homes lined up men!)





i have no intention of breeding crossbreeds (which is what your doing).....
when theres tons of FREE crossbreeds at shelters....


your right there nic101
pity more don,t think your way

as for breeding a litter and giving them away as freebies
you telling us your going to pay out possible hundreds of pounds on rearing a litter and then giving them away


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## marmite (Sep 22, 2009)

nic101 said:


> sarcasm from me there hun!!!
> 
> see im *responsible*.... my dogs have been done.
> 
> ...


took the words right out of my mouth


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> SEVEN_PETS I urge you to read my original post - we're getting Rudi neutered in a couple of weeks, so if we don't end up with a litter soon, we won't be having any more, end of. This wasn't an accident, nor was it an overly planned thing -yes, i'm sure there are plenty of you who will want to 'tell me off' for that, but hey, at least i'm open enough to admit it! They're my dogs and their health is of the utmost importance, *so why would I even consider going through with something if the risks were high? I've got contacts in the form of the breeders both dogs came from, who would have fully informed me of any health problems going back on both sides, 3 generations!*You're very keen to jump on the offensive, so much so that getting all of the information is overlooked on occasion maybe?
> Ninja, your little dog animation is hilarious! Is it your dog in it?


This actually made me laugh, try looking back 30 generation to research health issues. in your lines, like many ethical breeders do who are trying to better a breed. so you know about the grandparents? did you know the grandparents litter mates health status too?

MO


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## Stay'n'Sit (Sep 22, 2009)

I'd like to take the time time out and personally thank you for aiding the terrible rescue situation at the moment.

All we need are more dogs. More mutts. More puppies 'because it'd be nice for her to have a litter'.

On behalf of the hundreds of dogs that will be put to sleep because of this litter[and probably the litters your girl's pups will have] - Thank you.


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## manicmania (Sep 25, 2009)

Stay'n'Sit said:


> I'd like to take the time time out and personally thank you for aiding the terrible rescue situation at the moment.
> 
> All we need are more dogs. More mutts. More puppies 'because it'd be nice for her to have a litter'.
> 
> On behalf of the hundreds of dogs that will be put to sleep because of this litter[and probably the litters your girl's pups will have] - Thank you.


Ditto........


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Wow...what a thread. Where can you get rescue dogs for free never seen them? The op is asking questions why not answer and then explain after the answer why we health test for certain things. I don't think she said she wasn't prepared to pay for the scan...Jill


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> Wow...what a thread. The op is asking questions why not answer and then explain after the answer why we health test for certain things. I don't think she said she wasn't prepared to pay for the scan...Jill


thank you jill  that is exactly what i was trying to say in a messed up way lol,

long standing members have been banned for saying less than some on here have already said in one thread ,

i also dont think i am going to be posting very much on the forum anymore, 
it seems nobody wants to help anymore just preach when it to late anyway, 
so i give up, i really cant be arsed anymore


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

ninja said:


> thank you jill  that is exactly what i was trying to say in a messed up way lol,
> 
> long standing members have been banned for saying less than some on here have already said in one thread ,
> 
> ...


Please don't go we need people back


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

ninja said:


> thank you jill  that is exactly what i was trying to say in a messed up way lol,
> 
> long standing members have been banned for saying less than some on here have already said in one thread ,
> 
> ...


thats why i answered the questions its way to late in the day for the dogs be tested!
I will always try help even if i dont agree


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> Wow...what a thread. Where can you get rescue dogs for free never seen them? The op is asking questions why not answer and then explain after the answer why we health test for certain things. I don't think she said she wasn't prepared to pay for the scan...Jill


i agree 

the op has gone now anyway so what help is that to the mum and pups, It suprises me the people who bang on about health tests then refuse to help someone whos asking a question how can a animal lover turn there back on someone asking for help with thier animals but instead bleat on about stuff they know very little about!!

If you dont ask questions you will never learn, you cant not get every answer from a book sometimes only personal experience will do

i agree every dog should be health tested but whats the point in bleating on about it when the dead is done none!


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

*

It seems a no win situation here most of the time

Damned if you do
Damned if you don't 

*


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## Murphyandfi (Oct 9, 2009)

Stay'n'Sit said:


> I'd like to take the time time out and personally thank you for aiding the terrible rescue situation at the moment.
> 
> All we need are more dogs. More mutts. More puppies 'because it'd be nice for her to have a litter'.
> 
> On behalf of the hundreds of dogs that will be put to sleep because of this litter[and probably the litters your girl's pups will have] - Thank you.


As a first-time poster and recent lurker - I completely agree with the above post. It is not the action of a dog-lover to be breeding untested, mixed-breed pups with the huge problems the rescues have at the moment. Adult, pup and elderly dogs are being handed in to every rescue in the country many times a day yet there are still individuals who claim to be 'dog-lovers' creating pups who will reduce the number of available homes for the homeless.

I just cannot understand why anyone would want to do that?


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## emmisoli (Mar 30, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> but we need to say it how it is. should we just say "oh there there, it'll be alright. your puppies may die young cos they aren't health tested but it'll be alright". sorry i don't work like that, i say what needs to be said.


not health testing doesn't necessarily mean they will die young, a dog doesn't die from HD (maybe very uncomfortable) but I have never heard of them dying!! what sort of answer is that  I think you are all a bit p****d because these people are still selling there pups regardless of whether they have health tested or not and they possibly live long and healthy lives the same as our health tested pups.... there will always be a market for them no matter what is said on this forum. So why can't we just answer the questions that are asked and then maybe point out the direction they should have taken and leave it at that rather than going in to a brawl every time!! and yes before you all ask my bitch and dog are both health tested!!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Murphyandfi said:


> As a first-time poster and recent lurker - I completely agree with the above post. It is not the action of a dog-lover to be breeding untested, mixed-breed pups with the huge problems the rescues have at the moment. Adult, pup and elderly dogs are being handed in to every rescue in the country many times a day yet there are still individuals who claim to be 'dog-lovers' creating pups who will reduce the number of available homes for the homeless.
> 
> I just cannot understand why anyone would want to do that?


so glad you dont see any harshness, its a real problem ... people who breed take care in their breeding so when somebody comes on saying weve had a acidental mating but shes the best dog ever, a few questions do get raised. It is difficult to judge but people spend a lot of time on this and dont want to be associated with irresponsibility.... 
just my 2cents


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> First off, hello to everyone, have spent about a week reading lots of posts on here and thought it about time I wrote something myself.
> I have a little Chi boy (Rudi) and a Chi x YorkiexDaschund girl (Millie), who had some ahem, 'alone-time', about 7 or 8 weeks ago but I just can't for the life of me decide if I think she's in pup or not! She's put on a fair bit of weight and is looking 'booby' (no milk though) with some hair loss on her belly, and she's eating and sleeping more.
> 
> So some days I look at her and think, yep, definitely, then other days it just seems like her belly is all soft and just chubby, rather than kind of firm and pregnant, and she's just taking a long time to come back down from being on heat.
> ...


Most vets cant tell if a bitch is preggers or not 
Why dont you get her scanned that way you will know


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*And there was me thinking after yesterdays debate the forum might have moved forward.
For all of those that rant on about health testing just remember thats YOUR choice and people don't need it rammed down their throats.*


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## belleboris (Oct 8, 2009)

I took my girl to the vets at 7 weeks and he didnt know if she was or not a few days later i had her scanned and she is due 8 !
Scaner also came to my home so i think this is good as they are happy in there own home .


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

belleboris said:


> I took my girl to the vets at 7 weeks and he didnt know if she was or not a few days later i had her scanned and she is due 8 !
> Scaner also came to my home so i think this is good as they are happy in there own home .


Most vets dont have a clue when it comes to telling you if a bitch is preggers or not

I have always used a sheep scanner


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

JANICE199 said:


> *And there was me thinking after yesterdays debate the forum might have moved forward.
> For all of those that rant on about health testing just remember thats YOUR choice and people don't need it rammed down their throats.*


well said Jancie as i been keeping a eye on this thread and althou i do belive in health testing dogs are we not here to help educate people not sit behind our computer screens and be judge and jury , can people here not answer one question with out it turning into a big debate about health testing , why not tell the OP the answer then advise about health tests and the mismate jab but lets do it the right way ,everyone makes mistakes in the world lets show people that this forum is here to help and offer advice all i see at the moment is constant arguing and pulling other forum members to bits this is JMHO


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *And there was me thinking after yesterdays debate the forum might have moved forward.
> For all of those that rant on about health testing just remember thats YOUR choice and people don't need it rammed down their throats.*





leoti said:


> well said Jancie as i been keeping a eye on this thread and althou i do belive in health testing dogs are we not here to help educate people not sit behind our computer screens and be judge and jury , can people here not answer one question with out it turning into a big debate about health testing , why not tell the OP the answer then advise about health tests and the mismate jab but lets do it the right way ,everyone makes mistakes in the world lets show people that this forum is here to help and offer advice all i see at the moment is constant arguing and pulling other forum members to bits this is JMHO


Well said

Another newbie been and gone


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

nat1979 said:


> Well said
> 
> Another newbie been and gone


Yep Yep, well said!!!!


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

another newbie been and gone?

are we suppposed to accept bad breeding and people who have no idea???

eveer heard of educating ????


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

nic101 said:


> another newbie been and gone?
> 
> are we suppposed to accept bad breeding and people who have no idea???
> 
> eveer heard of educating ????


but how can we help educate people if every time some one ask for advice it turns into a witch hunt , we all have views and want to share them but lets do it in a grown up manner .
I am more than happy to explain about health tests in border collies but i wont turn it in to a witch hunt against the person asking how can help them if i do .


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

nic101 said:


> another newbie been and gone?
> 
> are we suppposed to accept bad breeding and people who have no idea???
> 
> eveer heard of educating ????


Its not about accepting bad breeding, its about heling out someone in need everyone moans and is shocked ans sickned by the selling of pregnant bitches now what if this lady though she couldnt handle it and she was failing her dog and tried to sell/give her away to someone who knows about breeding. she'd then be seen as the bad one for moving a pregnant bitch e.t.c

education yes but there is no need to harp on about health testing when the bitch is already pregnant, a mention and letting the lady know what she needs in the future

I totally agree with health testing and do thing all dogs should be without any doubt no matter what breed e.t.c but i just dont see the point in going on about it when the deed has been done already, if something is wrong with these pups thats the op's problem she will have to potentionally deal with court cases, owners wanting thier money back e.t.c


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

no i agree with you about the witchhunt

my points in particular were about breeding this particular dog - i didnt even get onto health tests

what p1ssed me off about this was how flippant/stupid and irresponsible this woman was towards her poor dog.....

yeah i agree dogs should be health tested etc... but my main point to the OP was why breed _that_ dog in particular in the first place....


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Daynna said:


> i agree
> 
> the op has gone now anyway so what help is that to the mum and pups, It suprises me the people who bang on about health tests then refuse to help someone whos asking a question how can a animal lover turn there back on someone asking for help with thier animals but instead bleat on about stuff they know very little about!!
> 
> ...


I agree and i do understand some people are passionate about certain areas of breeding or not breeding and are concerned about the pups, but why cant people say they dissagree and then move on and try to help make sure at least that they come into the world as safe as possible by giving as much advice as possible instead of chasing them away, after all whats been done has been done we cant alter that and no ammount of pounding on and on is going to change that, give these people a break.


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

Well, two puppies born, so she was, after my impatience! One sadly didn't make it so we just have one very special little man. No, we did not health test, unfortunately by the time about twelve people had lectured me on their views of health test importance, it was far too late for it to have made any difference, but thanks all the same to those who did inform me. No thanks to the tone some chose to take however. 
Before I aggravate anyone further please note *my boy dog has now been neutered* (and is mincing around the house like a completely broken man, i'm sure he'd want that pointed out as he definitely did NOT agree with being 'done' even if it is for the best...)

Anyway, for those who may have been interested, one healthy, chubby boy who's thriving as has 100% attention from mum. Has been to vets, humiliatingly, in a padded out washing basket with mum (again, if you want to inform me this is wrong, irresponsible, naive, whatever, that's fine, but please make it constructive criticism if you can) and if someone can let me know how to upload photos i'll try and stick a picture on if anyone's interested?


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

AprilBlossom said:


> Well, two puppies born, so she was, after my impatience! One sadly didn't make it so we just have one very special little man. No, we did not health test, unfortunately by the time about twelve people had lectured me on their views of health test importance, it was far too late for it to have made any difference, but thanks all the same to those who did inform me. No thanks to the tone some chose to take however.
> Before I aggravate anyone further please note *my boy dog has now been neutered* (and is mincing around the house like a completely broken man, i'm sure he'd want that pointed out as he definitely did NOT agree with being 'done' even if it is for the best...)
> 
> Anyway, for those who may have been interested, one healthy, chubby boy who's thriving as has 100% attention from mum. Has been to vets, humiliatingly, in a padded out washing basket with mum (again, if you want to inform me this is wrong, irresponsible, naive, whatever, that's fine, but please make it constructive criticism if you can) and if someone can let me know how to upload photos i'll try and stick a picture on if anyone's interested?


PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! 

I'd like to apologize if my post in this thread seemed harsh, at the end of the day, I love all dogs, and I just want the best for each one. I'm sorry for the loss of one of your little ones, it's absolutely heart-breaking, but I'm so happy that the other boy is doing well 

We lost one boy in the last litter I was present for and I decided to name him Carlisle. He was a chunky dude.

Rip, little one and best of luck with the other sibling. Please post some pictures, we love em! The ever so slight memory-scent of puppy breath... ^-^


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Yes please post piccies of mom dad and son that would be nice. ...Jill


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

I think its awfull that a new person comes on and ask a question, probably knowing her dog it near the end of pregnancy, as all she got was alot of lectures. Deed was done and close to the end, so all she wanted was a little of advice not a lecture. Everyone have their opinions we all know that, but we could say our peice ONCE and leave it at that. I am so glad the dog had her puppies ok and is doing well. I hope this newbie stays on this site and havent been put off. xxxxxx


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## AprilBlossom (Oct 8, 2009)

Pictures of pup on the day he was born and a couple of days ago, and one of mum and dad.
The puppy has a rather pooey bottom, is this something to be concerned about? It doesn't bother him, but just looks a bit gross lol, vet has said as long as he's eating well and content (NB he is content to the point of being smug) not to worry, but you know how it is, you just can't help it!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

You could gently wash his bum with a warm wet face cloth thats if the mom hasn't cleaned it already. Nice pics....Jill


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

iv probably(infact defintly) said b4 about people being nasty to new forum newbies...when i first came on here i got jumped on for no reason!!(cant quite remember what) and i was so close to leaving!!(glad i didnt as along with the arrogant know it all member that are adiment what they say is right there are generally nice caring helpful people who know there stuff that are there to help answer questions as nicely as possible, not going off subject!! if it wasnt for this place i wouldnt have known alot of stuff and alot of you have really helped me out!(thanks) why jump onto a new member accusing them of all sorts and constanly having a go at them?? it doesnt help at all!!and drives people away! and which u have done here yet again! BYB...hmmm something spring to mind!! but i wont say it! one litter not 10,20,100...1! so BYB i dont think so...start listening and aswering whats needed to be answered instead off ranting all the time!! maybe people would feel more welcome here if you did!(not aimed at everyone btw as already stated!) xx
BTW- CONGRATS!!! on ur wee man!! sorry bout the other pup R.I.P glad all (or most of it) turned out ok!!xxx


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Aw what a cute pup  Are you keeping him?


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

AprilBlossom said:


> Pictures of pup on the day he was born and a couple of days ago, and one of mum and dad.
> The puppy has a rather pooey bottom, is this something to be concerned about? It doesn't bother him, but just looks a bit gross lol, vet has said as long as he's eating well and content (NB he is content to the point of being smug) not to worry, but you know how it is, you just can't help it!


congrats to you and mummy, he's so cute!!! are you keeping him? xxx


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

What a lovely pup, congratulations you have both done really well.

Glad you have stayed on the forum.


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