# Titer Test & Insurance For Unvaccinated Dogs



## Pinkchi (Feb 5, 2011)

Those who have had a Titer test done in the UK how much did it cost you? 
I haven't asked my vet yet and its been nearly 2yrs since my dogs boosters so would like to get him checked.

Also what do those of you do about insurance if you do not vaccinate after the initial puppy jabs or titer test yearly? Having just been for a check up on some itchy skin and realising my insurance won't pay out for dogs not upto date with vaccinations i'm worrying about if his skin gets worse and needs tests etc as I certainly can't afford to pay for it :/ and certainly NOT going to vaccinate unless titer results show I need to

As for his skin...been itching/scratching/biting himself lately. No sign of any fleas anywhere. Came home and he had 2 bright red patches on his front chest/leg so chucked him straight into the bath for a rinse under the shower (no shampoo) which seemed to help. Vet told me to use flea treatment (advantage) as suspected flea allergy....but I refuse to use it on my dog especially when i've not even seen 1 flea. I ran out of salmon oil a few weeks ago so bought some Yumega sensitive skin. Hes still a little itchy but not as bad....could it possibly be the central heating drying his skin out? Nothing else has changed apart from running out of salmon oil few weeks back an he is fed raw of which nothing new introduced lately....stange


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

My two don't get jabs, and any future pups will start on nosodes and then nothing.

I have asked my vets and the quoted around £100 for the titre tests.

I am insured with pets at home and i rang them up, they state that i still have the same full insurance except they won't pay out should they get ill with something that could have been vaccinated against


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Pinkchi said:


> Those who have had a Titer test done in the UK how much did it cost you?
> I haven't asked my vet yet and its been nearly 2yrs since my dogs boosters so would like to get him checked.
> 
> Also what do those of you do about insurance if you do not vaccinate after the initial puppy jabs or titer test yearly? Having just been for a check up on some itchy skin and realising my insurance won't pay out for dogs not upto date with vaccinations i'm worrying about if his skin gets worse and needs tests etc as I certainly can't afford to pay for it :/ and certainly NOT going to vaccinate unless titer results show I need to
> ...


Have you spoken to your insurance? I have advised mine I titre test and not automatically booster especially as one already has an auto immune condition already. Although you may not be covered for the diseases that are preventable against through vaccinations you should be for everything else.

You dont always see fleas unless they have a bad infestation, as they usually only jump on to feed and spend most of the time in the environment and thats also where the eggs are laid. You have bathed him now so would have washed any away, but if you notice little specks that look like dirt or grit
brush them onto white kitchen roll and drop on a few drops of water, they should disolve and go a reddish/rusty colour if they are flea dirts.

Only other thoughts if this is a fairly recent thing would be some sort of mite thats causing it perhaps, some burrow into the skin, others live in the hair follicles and there is also cheytiella that as well as intense itching causes dandruff its common name is walking dandruff. The red patches could be where he is scratching and gnawing at areas as this will traumatise the skin.

Could even be some irritation caused by environmental factors even. Might be worth trying Dermacton, comes in shampoo bar, spray and cream. Its all natural too. If you want to read more on that
Dermacton - Skin Relief for Dogs with Itchy Skin


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## Pinkchi (Feb 5, 2011)

pogo said:


> My two don't get jabs, and any future pups will start on nosodes and then nothing.
> 
> I have asked my vets and the quoted around £100 for the titre tests.
> 
> I am insured with pets at home and i rang them up, they state that i still have the same full insurance except they won't pay out should they get ill with something that could have been vaccinated against


Whats nosodes? Not heard of that before
Louie had his puppy jabs with his first owner, then when I adopted him he was over-due so vets had his puppy jabs done again grr  Which was nearly 2yrs ago now. He was a little under the weather a few days after so pretty much made my decision along with info read on here/other webpages.

Louie is also insured with Pets at home so thats good to hear! I will probably ring to double check but sounds good to me. I get 20% off Companion Care vets so will be worth asking them today I feel.....just hope they've heard of one before so i don't have to explain it lol



Sled dog hotel said:


> Have you spoken to your insurance? I have advised mine I titre test and not automatically booster especially as one already has an auto immune condition already. Although you may not be covered for the diseases that are preventable against through vaccinations you should be for everything else.
> 
> You dont always see fleas unless they have a bad infestation, as they usually only jump on to feed and spend most of the time in the environment and thats also where the eggs are laid. You have bathed him now so would have washed any away, but if you notice little specks that look like dirt or grit
> brush them onto white kitchen roll and drop on a few drops of water, they should disolve and go a reddish/rusty colour if they are flea dirts.
> ...


Hes very smooth coated and cream so any sign of fleas is very easily noticeable. No flea dirt, no fleas, no evidence of them in the home (not saying its not possible but not seen anything and havent been bitten)
Since I bathed him the red patches went away by the next day and scratching very much reduced. His skin looks healthy, no dandruff or flaky patches and no hairloss.

Vet was really pushing me to use Advantage (not frontline he doesnt recommend that) but I refuse to put that crap on my dog for no reason. Hes had fleas before and all I did was use a herbal shampoo on him and treated the home with a spray and that worked fine.

Been using Yumega Plus since his vet appointment last week (Thurs) and although he is still a little itchy it seems to be improving.

I will take a look at the Dermacton....but not sure I want to bathe him again as hes had a few baths recently and couldn't that be making him itchy? Stripping the natural oils from his coat?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I think most insurances state that they will not pay out for diseases that could have been vaccinated for rather than not paying out on anything.

Flea allergy is the most common cause of skin complaints. Why did you go to the vet if you refuse to take advice. What is wrong with treating your dog wiht what the vet suggests.

Sorry, it really annoys me when people prefer to take advice from forums rather than from the vet.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Pinkchi said:


> Whats nosodes? Not heard of that before
> Louie had his puppy jabs with his first owner, then when I adopted him he was over-due so vets had his puppy jabs done again grr  Which was nearly 2yrs ago now. He was a little under the weather a few days after so pretty much made my decision along with info read on here/other webpages.
> 
> Louie is also insured with Pets at home so thats good to hear! I will probably ring to double check but sounds good to me. I get 20% off Companion Care vets so will be worth asking them today I feel.....just hope they've heard of one before so i don't have to explain it lol
> ...


Dermacton comes in a spray too and a cream as well as the shampoo bar so you dont have to actually bathe them.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

Pinkchi said:


> Whats nosodes? Not heard of that before
> Louie had his puppy jabs with his first owner, then when I adopted him he was over-due so vets had his puppy jabs done again grr  Which was nearly 2yrs ago now. He was a little under the weather a few days after so pretty much made my decision along with info read on here/other webpages.


Nosodes - Nosodes: alternative to vaccines


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I think most insurances state that they will not pay out for diseases that could have been vaccinated for rather than not paying out on anything.


I'd always recommend double checking - I have just switched Maisie's insurance and previous policy was as above *but* I've just received the new insurers policy docs through and it states:

"you must ensure your pet is vaccinated each year against distemper, hepatitis, leptospirosis and parvovirus for dogs" - nothing mentioned at all about just not covering those conditions if caught.

I will have to ring them tomorrow & ask - still have old policy running so may have to cancel the new one (£10 / cheaper & same level of cover so will be a bit miffed if that's the case).


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

pogo said:


> Nosodes - Nosodes: alternative to vaccines


Homeopathy

Please don't rely on nosodes to provide any kind of immunity and at least get puppy jabs done.

It's also entirely normal to have a reaction to a vaccination, I don't know where this attitude that it's some kind of danger sign has come from. Vaccines work by stimulating an immune response which is what can make some people (and some dogs) feel a bit rough afterwards. It's completely normal.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Can i ask why some dont have their dogs vaxed? mine are as i have seen a dog suffer from distemper and there is so much parvo about these days i would hate to see my dogs get anything that can be vaxed against.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> Homeopathy
> 
> Please don't rely on nosodes to provide any kind of immunity and at least get puppy jabs done.
> 
> It's also entirely normal to have a reaction to a vaccination, I don't know where this attitude that it's some kind of danger sign has come from. Vaccines work by stimulating an immune response which is what can make some people (and some dogs) feel a bit rough afterwards. It's completely normal.


Nope sorry i don't believe in puppy jabs. I do not vaccinate my dogs.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Pogo do you not worry about your dogs being very sick from something they could be vaxed for? or that if lots dont vax their dogs , things like distemper will become a real threat once again to all dogs.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

No i don't, they have very healthy immune systems and have been properly introduced to diseases that are present everywhere.

I don't believe in vacs and the damage they have done is quite incredible!


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## toffee44 (Oct 21, 2011)

I am getting Dylan and teal titre tested next month, but not sure how comfortable I am about not jabbing them. I work as a midwife and am starting to see a rise in whooping cough and mumps in the community where kids haven't been jabbed. Worried this may happen at some point in the canine world if people don't jab any more. 

But that's just my opinion.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

hazel pritchard said:


> Pogo do you not worry about your dogs being very sick from something they could be vaxed for? or that if lots dont vax their dogs , things like distemper will become a real threat once again to all dogs.


yeah, like all the poor babies that have died of whooping cough unnecessarily. Shall we just go back to the good old days pre vaccination and expect a high percentage of dogs and children to die. Sadly we would have to start having 8 children if we wanted to rear 2 or 3 of them and it would be a fact of life that a great number of dogs died of distemper.

It is totally irresponsible and those that get away with it are relying on the greatest number of dogs/babies still being vaccinated.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

*Cats: *I've always had the cats done every 15months (my vet is happy for them to be done at this interval and says the vaccinations are fine to last this long) for 2 reasons: 1) cats can catch Feline Leukaemia through bites/scratches when fighting (my cats do go out and unfortunately do fight) so it makes sense to protect against this and 2) in an absolute emergency they may have to go into a cattery and obviously need to be vaccinated before this (with many insisting these are done at least 3 weeks before entry so you can't just go out & have them done).

*Dogs* We've always had them done at pups & 1st year at a minimum. Both Ben & Maisie came to me as adults (Ben was around 7 and Maisie 5) and neither had been done since their pup ones. There are *a lot* of dogs around here and I was worried about the number that would be vaccinated and, especially in Maisie's case (she came from somewhere where she'd had no contact without outside dogs) I was worried she'd had little natural immunity. Ben had his primary ones done but had a bad reaction - so he wasn't done for another 3 years & then that was his last one. Maisie has had her initial ones - and was fine with them. I will probably do a booster next year - but after that I'm not sure.

I do think they need the initial ones and 1st booster *but* I'm also sure we do over vaccinate as I'm also sure they don't need done every 12 (or even 15 months) months on the dot ......


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

toffee44 said:


> I am getting Dylan and teal titre tested next month, but not sure how comfortable I am about not jabbing them. I work as a midwife and am starting to see a rise in whooping cough and mumps in the community where kids haven't been jabbed. Worried this may happen at some point in the canine world if people don't jab any more.


It will happen, as soon as the number of dogs being vaccinated drops below the herd immunity threshold.

People forget that it's not just about their dogs (or themselves/their children in the case of human vaccines) but about the whole of canine (or human) society.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

Blitz said:


> yeah, like all the poor babies that have died of whooping cough unnecessarily. Shall we just go back to the good old days pre vaccination and expect a high percentage of dogs and children to die. Sadly we would have to start having 8 children if we wanted to rear 2 or 3 of them and it would be a fact of life that a great number of dogs died of distemper.
> 
> It is totally irresponsible and those that get away with it are relying on the greatest number of dogs/babies still being vaccinated.


I'm not relying on anyone vaccinating their dogs those who choose not to do so with an informed choice


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

As Maternal derived antibodies from mum wanes around 8/12 weeks, personally I would always give Puppy vaccinations. But even the World small animal Veterinary association now have changed their guidelines, confirming that the core vaccines at least cover for 3 years often plus and in some dogs for life. They also now advocate the use of titre testing for the core vaccines instead of just annual boostering to make sure their is sufficient antibodies present for protection, which if there are you dont need to Booster anyway, at least the core vaccines. Which I personally do titre test instead of just anutmatically boostering.

The question on vaccinating has never been that you shouldnt vaccinate, you should, but instead how it is carried out in the first place and that over vaccinating by boostering evey year could have adverse effects and cause problems. For the Non core vaccinations like Lepto spirosis etc, they only cover a couple of strains anyway, and are not believed to cover the dog for a full year.

http://www.wsava.org/PDF/Misc/VaccinationGuidelines2010.pdf


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

hazel pritchard said:


> Can i ask why some dont have their dogs vaxed? mine are as i have seen a dog suffer from distemper and there is so much parvo about these days i would hate to see my dogs get anything that can be vaxed against.


Mine are not vacs as i get titre testing and they do not need the vacs, i would vaccinate if neccesary but at the moment all dogs are fine. I believe some vacs are un neccessary, and i dont see why dogs should be vaccinated if there is no need, its putting chemicals in the body which are not needed, and i dont want my dogs becoming immune to the vacs by having boosters each year.

Ive seen alot of dogs with parvo and other diseases that have been extremely ill and died but i still would not vaccinate, as it does not always prevent.


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

Blitz said:


> yeah, like all the poor babies that have died of whooping cough unnecessarily. Shall we just go back to the good old days pre vaccination and expect a high percentage of dogs and children to die. Sadly we would have to start having 8 children if we wanted to rear 2 or 3 of them and it would be a fact of life that a great number of dogs died of distemper.
> 
> It is totally irresponsible and those that get away with it are relying on the greatest number of dogs/babies still being vaccinated.


I think thats slightly harsh, i dont vaccinate my dogs but i am not irresponsible. I do not see a need and would not vaccinate if no need. I think its irresponsible not to vaccinate and titre test, but aslong as you are titre testing and vaccinate if needed then its fine.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> But even the World small animal Veterinary association now have changed their guidelines, confirming that the core vaccines at least cover for 3 years often plus and in some dogs for life. They also now advocate the use of titre testing for the core vaccines instead of just annual boostering to make sure their is sufficient antibodies present for protection, which if there are you dont need to Booster anyway, at least the core vaccines. Which I personally do titre test instead of just anutmatically boostering.


A lot of us are going to be stuck as it would appear many of the insurance companies are starting to down the route of you *must* have annual vaccinations done - instead of what most did previously which was just exclude any treatment for these conditions.

So ... annual booster whether you want to or not - or no insurance (which I can't afford not to have)


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Lilylass said:


> A lot of us are going to be stuck as it would appear many of the insurance companies are starting to down the route of you *must* have annual vaccinations done - instead of what most did previously which was just exclude any treatment for these conditions.
> 
> So ... annual booster whether you want to or not - or no insurance (which I can't afford not to have)


Looks like though even the British Small Animal Veterinary Association (BSAVA)
In their own words "Endorses the Scientific Validity of the WSAVA Guidelines" as per the link given in my previous thread, and as the states and Australia are already on board that yearly boosters are not always necessary already, then I dont see how insurance companies can hold it up really or not for ever. Especially as the new vaccination protocols and titre testing becomes more widely used as standard.

BSAVA | Canine and Feline Vaccination Protocols


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Lilylass said:


> A lot of us are going to be stuck as it would appear many of the insurance companies are starting to down the route of you *must* have annual vaccinations done - instead of what most did previously which was just exclude any treatment for these conditions.
> 
> So ... annual booster whether you want to or not - or no insurance (which I can't afford not to have)


This was one of the factors - along with a stupid price hike - that finalised my decision to cancel Kite's insurance recently.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I think many of you will find that by titre testing a lot of us who don't vaccinate still know our dogs are immune, therefore it is not irresponsible or putting other dogs at risk at all?

Does anyone on this thread seriously think that I should vaccinate Rupert with all of the health issues he has? 

Many brands have been tested and are proven to provide immunity for up to 7 years anyway.


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> I think many of you will find that by titre testing a lot of us who don't vaccinate still know our dogs are immune, therefore it is not irresponsible or putting other dogs at risk at all?
> 
> Does anyone on this thread seriously think that I should vaccinate Rupert with all of the health issues he has?
> 
> Many brands have been tested and are proven to provide immunity for up to 7 years anyway.


Nope no way would i vax Ru!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

pogo said:


> Nope no way would i vax Ru!


I actually wonder if his original issues stem from his puppy shots and first and only booster  undiagnosed skin issues and whilst skin probs are common in his breed, his breed is also one of the more common in which adverse vaccine reactions are seen in too...


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I actually wonder if his original issues stem from his puppy shots and first and only booster  undiagnosed skin issues and whilst skin probs are common in his breed, his breed is also one of the more common in which adverse vaccine reactions are seen in too...


Interestingly too the Golden Retriever is ranked No. 20 out of 140 Breeds on the Michagan state University OFA Thyroid registry for auto immune thyroid problems too so maybe it follows they could be susceptible to other immune mediated and auto immune problems too.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Interestingly too the Golden Retriever is ranked No. 20 out of 140 Breeds on the Michagan state University OFA Thyroid registry for auto immune thyroid problems too so maybe it follows they could be susceptible to other immune mediated and auto immune problems too.


If I have another golden retriever I will think very carefully what I do regarding vaccinations. I believe allergies are not auto immune but technically he has atopic like dermatitis not a diagnosed allergy. Either way he gets rashes develop with no known trigger I think it's his own immune system letting him down 

Lets be honest steroids are immunosuppressants aren't they and without them he would have been dead a long time ago. Even if he does have an allergy I would not be surprised to hear in the future of the discovery of links between vaccination and allergies.

SDH what is your take on allergies in regard to being an auto immune disease? There are minor documents which regard it as so...


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> If I have another golden retriever I will think very carefully what I do regarding vaccinations. I believe allergies are not auto immune but technically he has atopic like dermatitis not a diagnosed allergy. Either way he gets rashes develop with no known trigger I think it's his own immune system letting him down
> 
> Lets be honest steroids are immunosuppressants aren't they and without them he would have been dead a long time ago. Even if he does have an allergy I would not be surprised to hear in the future of the discovery of links between vaccination and allergies.
> 
> SDH what is your take on allergies in regard to being an auto immune disease? There are minor documents which regard it as so...


Off the top of my head and just possible logical thinking only, As allergies are an over reponse to things by the immune system, and auto immune diseases are literally the body making antibodies against itself then I would say maybe possible,
but thats just pure possible thought though havent looked into it. Skin problems can come with auto immune diseases too.


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