# Aggressive Presa Canario



## dogmum (Dec 15, 2014)

As the title says, I have a 3 year old Presa Canario who is aggressive toward strangers. He lunges aggressively at people on the street, and sometimes stiffens and raises his hackles when he sees people at quite a distance. Obviously, he is muzzled when out, and is walked in a no-pull harness.
With visitors, he has come to accept many people after being slowly introduced from behind a baby gate and with treats and them ignoring him being involved. Recently though, he has deteriorated in this regard. A very dog savvy friend was over recently and he broke through the baby gate and charged at her, growling and barking. He pressed his mouth against her but did not bite. I was quite shaken however, and it has really given me a wake up call. There is no particular type of person that stands out...men, women, children, the elderly. Everyone is a problem for him. 
He came from a bad background at 7 months. The previous owner had him as a "status dog" and did not socialise him. He was in poor physical shape, and had been acquired at 6 weeks old. He was always bad with strangers, though he seems to be getting worse. He also goes ballistic at the vets whenever he has to go. BTW, he is neutered.
My partner and I are at our wits end. He suggested rehoming, but that is not an option as far as I'm concerned. There are too many risks attached for rehomers and the dog himself. I'd hate to see him in a bad situation again. His behaviour toward my friend last week though, really got us thinking about how difficult life has become. I was really concerned that he could cross the threshold...he's never bitten, but I'm worried he could be heading that way. Our two other dogs are impacted as they don't get as much attention, while our lives have come to revolve around managing to live with these issues. We don't go to the dog walking spots we used to, we can't go away with the dogs as we would with the two we already had, while kennels won't take him. Many people won't come to the house now, although he hasn't behaved anywhere near as badly towards them (or perhaps I've been slightly delusional about how bad he is, I don't know ).
I see that we have two options...both of which would involve a full vet check, bloods etc first.
One is a behavioural modification plan. I've used a behaviourist previously for one of my other dogs who had leash reactivity issues toward strange dogs. That dog improved, although not in all cases...and I spent a massive amount of time working with him. He is a small dog though, so that's quite different to a large, human reactive dog. I don't know how well it could work in a case like this. I had planned on getting one in sooner for this guy, but work brought me overseas for a while. I've had informal chats and gotten some tips but that's about it. Work could bring me away again, so I don't know what to do. I turned down an assignment recently because I knew my partner would find it difficult to cope with the dog by himself. 
The other option is PTS...I hate that it has even crossed my mind. All my family's dogs have been rescues and I've often gone out of my way to prevent a dog from being PTS. I can't stand people who decide a dog is just inconvenient and discard it. Any of the dogs I've rescued or fostered though, have been lovely, safe dogs. I just feel out of my depth with this guy.
I should add that he has never shown aggression to me, my partner or our other dogs. He is such a young dog, I would feel terrible about having him put down. At the same time, I'm pretty drained by all of this.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2014)

dogmum said:


> As the title says, I have a 3 year old Presa Canario who is aggressive toward strangers. He lunges aggressively at people on the street, and sometimes stiffens and raises his hackles when he sees people at quite a distance. Obviously, he is muzzled when out, and is walked in a no-pull harness.
> With visitors, he has come to accept many people after being slowly introduced from behind a baby gate and with treats and them ignoring him being involved. Recently though, he has deteriorated in this regard. A very dog savvy friend was over recently and he broke through the baby gate and charged at her, growling and barking. He pressed his mouth against her but did not bite. I was quite shaken however, and it has really given me a wake up call. There is no particular type of person that stands out...men, women, children, the elderly. Everyone is a problem for him.
> He came from a bad background at 7 months. The previous owner had him as a "status dog" and did not socialise him. He was in poor physical shape, and had been acquired at 6 weeks old. He was always bad with strangers, though he seems to be getting worse. He also goes ballistic at the vets whenever he has to go. BTW, he is neutered.
> My partner and I are at our wits end. He suggested rehoming, but that is not an option as far as I'm concerned. There are too many risks attached for rehomers and the dog himself. I'd hate to see him in a bad situation again. His behaviour toward my friend last week though, really got us thinking about how difficult life has become. I was really concerned that he could cross the threshold...he's never bitten, but I'm worried he could be heading that way. Our two other dogs are impacted as they don't get as much attention, while our lives have come to revolve around managing to live with these issues. We don't go to the dog walking spots we used to, we can't go away with the dogs as we would with the two we already had, while kennels won't take him. Many people won't come to the house now, although he hasn't behaved anywhere near as badly towards them (or perhaps I've been slightly delusional about how bad he is, I don't know ).
> ...


I think your options as you have described are pretty much spot on obviously leaning more heavily towards a thorough medical and behavioral evaluation followed by b-mod.

I also think you are right that left unchecked, this behavior will escalate to the point of a bite.

You say he was in poor physical shape when you first got him, there is a good possibility that he has pain issues going on that are going to exacerbate behavior issues.

Id also wonder about temperament, if he is from a bad situation it makes me wonder what kind of breeder he is from and how careful they were about selecting for temperament. Presas are not easy dogs even when bred with proper temperament in mind, a presa with an iffy temperament can be a nightmare. 
Speaking of breeding, do you have any information on him that could help you track down the breeder? I know rehoming isnt an option (and I agree) but it might be an option for the breeder to take him back. At the very least the breeder should know about the issues with one of their dogs.

Are you in the UK? Would he fall under type?

In the meantime, I would not rely on baby gates anymore and simply put him in another room whenever you have guests in the home. Get a nice stuffed Kong, and put him in a separate room, maybe even add a white noise maker like a box fan or radio, give him a Kong and leave him be while you have company over. 
The less opportunities he has to practice undesirable behaviors the better.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Whether a behaviour modification plan will have good results is something you're realistically only going to know by seeing a behaviourist, it very much depends on what's causing the issue to start with and how you and your dog respond.

I've been dealing with a Rottweiler who is aggressive with strangers and dogs for just over a year now...and it is hugely draining, not to mention that everything has to be planned round him.

I've considered having him PTS as well and to be honest it's never really off the table because the minute I can't manage him - that will have to be what happens.

The human aggression has actually been easier to deal with than the dog aggression because I can control his interactions with people, with dogs I can only do so much to limit him meeting them as it depends far too much on other dog owners keeping their dog under control. (He's kept on lead and muzzled).

He's kept away from any visitors he doesn't know, for things like deliveries or meter readers he's crated, for actual visitors he has a kennel and run outside, all the doors in the house now work like airlocks, lol, you shut one before opening another and my garden has 6 ft panel fences with a locked 6 ft gate.

He is responding to training, but, his issues are caused by pain and because it took a long time to get the pain under control he's had a lot of practise and it's very very unlikely that he'll ever be anything other than heavily managed...the more often your dog gets to behave aggressively the harder it will be to change that behaviour.

If you go for help - you will at least know what you're facing and can decide from there and you are better doing it sooner rather than later.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> I think your options as you have described are pretty much spot on obviously leaning more heavily towards a thorough medical and behavioral evaluation followed by b-mod.
> 
> I also think you are right that left unchecked, this behavior will escalate to the point of a bite.
> 
> ...


DogMUM instead of MOM suggests she is, but I stand to be corrected on that. And I don't know about falling under type, but I've just checked the banned breeds list, and Presa Canario isn't on there (the thought crossed my mind, too). 

Other than that, you've systematically covered everything I was going to suggest.  

Sorry, OP, I have nothing further to add. My heart goes out to you.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

dogmum said:


> As the title says, I have a 3 year old Presa Canario who is aggressive toward strangers. He lunges aggressively at people on the street, and sometimes stiffens and raises his hackles when he sees people at quite a distance. Obviously, he is muzzled when out, and is walked in a no-pull harness.
> With visitors, he has come to accept many people after being slowly introduced from behind a baby gate and with treats and them ignoring him being involved. Recently though, he has deteriorated in this regard. A very dog savvy friend was over recently and he broke through the baby gate and charged at her, growling and barking. He pressed his mouth against her but did not bite. I was quite shaken however, and it has really given me a wake up call. There is no particular type of person that stands out...men, women, children, the elderly. Everyone is a problem for him.
> He came from a bad background at 7 months. The previous owner had him as a "status dog" and did not socialise him. He was in poor physical shape, and had been acquired at 6 weeks old. He was always bad with strangers, though he seems to be getting worse. He also goes ballistic at the vets whenever he has to go. BTW, he is neutered.
> My partner and I are at our wits end. He suggested rehoming, but that is not an option as far as I'm concerned. There are too many risks attached for rehomers and the dog himself. I'd hate to see him in a bad situation again. His behaviour toward my friend last week though, really got us thinking about how difficult life has become. I was really concerned that he could cross the threshold...he's never bitten, but I'm worried he could be heading that way. Our two other dogs are impacted as they don't get as much attention, while our lives have come to revolve around managing to live with these issues. We don't go to the dog walking spots we used to, we can't go away with the dogs as we would with the two we already had, while kennels won't take him. Many people won't come to the house now, although he hasn't behaved anywhere near as badly towards them (or perhaps I've been slightly delusional about how bad he is, I don't know ).
> ...


With a dog of this size and type and the problems he has then it wouldn't be responsible or feasible to just try to rehome him.

Given what you have said of his history, that the previous owner rehomed at 6 weeks, which isn't good as puppies learn a lot and go through many critical stages of development in the first 16 weeks, and he would have missed out on vital lessons from Mum and siblings. Add to that for the first 6/7 months he wasn't socialised and by the sounds of it he had an irresponsible first owner on top of irresponsible breeder it certainly wouldn't have helped. So as you have worked out already the problems originated and have continued from long standing.

Assuming you are in the UK? It may be worth speaking to Cane Corso and Molosser rescue, they have worked with and rescue cane corso and various Molosser breeds and crosses, many of whom have had terrible starts in life and existances. They are only a small organisation and like other rescues too are pushed for space and funds, but you could well benefit at least from their expertise and advice. Its worth asking them to see what their thoughts are, they may be able to suggest someone with breed experience to come and assess him and work with you, if nothing else. The link to their website and contact details are below.

http://www.canecorsoukmolosserrescue.com/


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

I know nothing about the breed, but just want to say how much I admire you for sticking with it and trying to think of all options. If PTS becomes the only choice, please do not punish yourself over it: you have persevered for far longer than most of us would manage.


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## LaceWing (Mar 18, 2014)

This is a very aggressive breed. They were bred to hunt people. While behavior modification is a good start, you have to accept the nature of this breed. I would not take him in public without a head halter set to close the mouth.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2014)

Presas were not bred to hunt people. They are a guardian breed, bred to guard the estate and at times help with the cattle as catch dogs. They were also used in dog fighting.

Breeds are not aggressive. Behavior is aggressive.

Though some breeders are trying to water presas down to make them more suitable as pets, I would not class a presa as a pet dog. They have a very sharp temperament, quick to resort to teeth, definitive in how they use them. 

Well bred in the right hands, they are fabulous dogs, but they really arent suitable for your average (or even above average) pet home.


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## LaceWing (Mar 18, 2014)

They have been known to kill people, unprovoked.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Gosh, I feel for you. 

For me it would boil down to two things; the dogs quality of life and your own. The combination of an aggressive, stressy dog and an understandably stressed human owner isn't a winning one. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place because the dog (presumably) is no trouble in the house with you but is extremely difficult to manage outside the house, or when anyone but yourselves enters the threshold of your property. If you lived in some rural property and rarely saw people, it wouldn't be a big deal to manage, but as most of us aren't that lucky....

The way I look at dog ownership is that it should predominately be a pleasure. Not entirely as all dogs (and owners) have flaws but for the most part, the positives should outweigh the negatives. If the dog and it's problems are entirely dominating your life and effecting the way you live in a detrimental way then that is not healthy for either party.

That being said, it sounds to me like you are willing to give him a chance and try and work on this which is admirable. He's never going to be trustworthy by the sounds of it but I suppose a happy medium would be being able to walk him without the bravado display? I'd go ahead with a veterinary referral to a behaviourist who specializes in aggression and get their opinion....


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

things i'd suggest ASAP:

- full thyroid panel, meaning 5 or possibly 6 tests on a blood sample,
AND read by 1 of 2 vet-labs in the USA for best analysis.

That's *free* & *bound* forms of T3 *and* T4, plus TSH / throid-stimulating hormone,
possibly plus ANA / Anti-nuclear antibody test [the 6th, if anyone's counting] to see if he's trashing his own
thyroid hormone after making it.

Send the specimen to either HemoPet [Dodds' vet labs] or Michigan State Univ vet-labs; Dodds has specialized
in auto-immune & bloodborne diseases for over 25-years, & MSU has the world's largest database of breed-
specific thyroid levels. Personally, my preference is MSU, but either is exceedingly reputable & worth the
effort; they receive specimens from all over the world, don't let the locum vet persuade U that the hospital
just down the street, or s/he themselves, can do just as good an analysis. It's NOT just numbers; it's knowing
what those numbers mean, in that breed, at that age.

2nd:
start calmatives - a minimum of 3 OTC calmatives, each using a different sensory process.
Whichever works fastest will enable the other 2, getting more bang for the same buck.
See this single post for info on What, When, How, etc:

Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much...

3rd:
if he's not already THRILLED to put his basket-muzzle on his own face, start teaching that. His basket-muzzle
must become a sign of Good Things, not _*"uh-oh, here comes the scary stuff..."*_ :yikes: but *"oh, how nice..."*






The above is a 1st-ever session with an ACD who is clearly wary of strangers, yet the trainer's timing
is so exact, the dog soon happily interacts with the muzzle whilst still fixing her with the hairy eyeball. :lol:
Super timing, & the dog obviously catches on very quickly to what's the rewarding thing: look at, step
toward, approach, & finally TOUCH the muzzle, all with nothing but markers as clues. :thumbup:

4th:
find a vet-behaviorist or a CAAB to consult, long-distance or in the flesh.
Have Ur own vet ready to act as locum-vet to the behaviorist; the locum examines the dog as needed,
does any tests, etc, the behaviorist designs a B-Mod protocol, & U - oh, joy! --- get to apply it. :w00t:

5th:
pick up a copy of _'Click to Calm'_ - 
flip to a page in the back that deals with YOUR symptom, or one of them, & start using it.
Basically, it's a recipe book; it's DS/CC [DeSensitize/Counter-Condition] in step-by-step format for laypersons.

Don't be scared; they do not suggest ANYthing confrontational or punitive or aversive; it's meant to move
at the dog's own speed, which may leap forward, plod, or even regress. That's OK.

6th:
start DS/CC to the vet's setting - go to a DIFFERENT vet, start in the parking lot, sit & observe other ppl & pets
arrive & leave. Feed him brekkie, one spoonful at a time, while he watches. Move out of the car once he's no
longer reacting to passersby; gradually approach the door, enter the waiting room, IMMEDIATELY exit, treat,
enter, stay 2 seconds, exit, treat; wait 5-mins, enter, stay 5-secs, exit, leave... & so on. Short, happy,
*nothing bad happens*. Within a few days, U should be able to get him on the wt-scale, have someone
approach, look at & speak to
him, AND LEAVE without touching him. And so on, & so forth. Baby step after baby step.

he has to be able to see a vet, accept handling calmly, etc, for his own safety & well-being, Work on this while
he's HEALTHY so he isn't further stressed when he's hurt or ill. 

Within a month, U should have thyroid results; *if he's borderline low, be prepared to discuss
short-term thyroid supplements with YOUR vet.* If he takes a low-dose thyroid supp for 3-weeks & his
behavior improves, that's reason enuf to Rx them lifelong; they are blessedly cheap. However, they aren't
optional - if he needs 'em, he needs 'em forever.

meanwhile, B-mod goes on apace, & management continues, in home & abroad.

Ask the vet if he can be SEDATED with an oral med before he comes into the vets', until his B-Mod alters
his impression of vets, exam tables, stethoscopes, etc.  U give it at home, he comes in already medicated.

*Edit:*
Guess this will be one of those posts for folk with a similar problem, who consult this thread.
Ah, well. ::Shrug:: C'est la ve...
.
.


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## dogmum (Dec 15, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies. For those who were wondering, I'm not in the UK...am in the RoI, so the question of him being "of type" is removed from the equation.

Regarding his breeding, as was mentioned, the fact that he was removed from his mother and litter at 6 weeks indicates an irresponsible breeder. I did some detective work after I got him and think I have identified the breeders...basically BYBs who allowed their dogs to mate, no element of selection involved. More and more Presas are being advertised here these days, and there seems to be quite a bit of variation in what is described as a Presa. I've also noticed an increasing number show up on dog pound websites. They seem to be growing in popularity as another "hard man" dog.

The health issue is that he was very underweight when I got him. From what I've observed of his behaviour, I don't think there is a pain/medical issue but I could be completely wrong, hence going for veterinary investigation before the next step...I'm aware that good behaviourists generally require this anyway.

Tabulahrasa, your description of how everything has to be planned around your Rottie sounds similar to how things are with my guy. It is absolutely draining...you sound like you have a good management system in place at home. Our downstairs is almost open plan, hence the baby gate. From now on though, he'll have to go outside or upstairs (his bed is in my bedroom) when anyone calls, at least until we're working under the guidance of a behaviourist. 

This brings me to an issue that I didn't mention before...he also suffers from separation anxiety. At first, he was quite destructive when we would go out, but we have that in hand. However, if he is put outside or even behind the gate when visitors come, he wants to be let in...but then puts on a display of aggression again. 

Labradrk, you've summed things up quite well. At home, with his own people, he is an absolute pet, but things change once strangers enter the equation. If he was showing aggression to household members, the situation would be more clear cut in terms of what to do next. He has never given cause for concern in that way, and he is very gentle with the two smaller dogs. 
It is extremely stressful though, and our lifestyle has been curtailed to quite an extent. With the other two dogs, we would frequently go to doggy related events, meet up with other dog owners and go for walks when and where we wanted to. We're in an urban area, so that doesn't help. I would love to live rurally and it's almost happened a couple of times, but it's not possible at the moment. I agree that he will probably never be 100% but, as you said, it would be great to be able to manage him on walks.


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## LaceWing (Mar 18, 2014)

As a &#8216;type&#8217;, Presas are very loyal to those they consider family. It&#8217;s just everyone else they have a problem with. Being separated from the litter at 6 weeks would indicate SA, something you may always be managing. Agreed his aggression would be much easier if you lived in a rural area, but with help you may be able to adjust his threshold.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

dogmum said:


> ...he also suffers from *separation anxiety*. At first, *he was quite destructive
> when we'd go out*, but we have that in hand.


this won't be popularly received, i'm sure -  but IME, sep-anx is among, if not THE, most-often misdiagnosed
behavioral issues around.

Only being separated from dam & sibs too young is rarely a harbinger of sep-anx; that ISN'T to say
that early separation isn't a disaster, as it is! - but it usually takes repeated loss of trusted caregivers to
trip the trigger for Sep-Anx; pups who lose their 1st home [the one after their birth home] before 4-MO,
or pups who go thru 3 or more homes before their 1st Birthday, are at far-higher risk of Sep-Anx.

the primary symptom of Sep-Anx isn't "destruction" AKA chewing, it's *a desire to escape -* digging at floors
in front of doors, gnawing on crate doors, chewing floors at doorways, gnawing on window sills, & similar - any
potential EXIT is where the destruction is seen. It's not the sofa-cushions, TV-remotes, stuffed toys, etc.

As i suggested previously, OTC calmatives are simple, safe, & often very helpful - see my prior post for
the link to a SINGLE post, listing what things are available & how to use them.


dogmum said:


> However, *if he's put outside or even behind the gate when visitors come,
> he wants to be let in... but then puts on a display of aggro again. *
> 
> ...


install a tether in the room where U usually entertain visitors; put him BEHIND U, where he is not
confronted by the visitors as they enter. A distance of 8 to 12-ft from the doorway is good, if possible.

Choose a location that's out of traffic paths, & where he cannot reach bookshelves, TVs, etc, to topple
them & hurt himself, or chew things to self-soothe.

Screw an eye-bolt into the baseboard, have a big-box hardware store make up a bicycle-cable tether
that's got about 20-inches of free cable between the spring-clips *clamped* on each end - be sure
that at least 1 & preferably both spring-clips have SWIVEL bases, so the cable won't kink.

Lay down a low-profile mat or memory foam or ___ , to cushion his elbows & define a space for him;
clip the cable to the wall, the free end to the dog's buckle collar, & give him a stuffed Kong or other long-lasting
busywork, so he has a pacifier.

Tell guests *at the door* not to look at him, nor to speak to him, & don't use his Sacred Name - pretend he's
a cat, terrified of ppl, & they are trying to PRETEND the scaredy-cat isn't there, to increase their confidence.

Have tossable treats on hand - something that won't leave grease-marks & that the vacuum can pick up,
such as pea-sized bits of freeze-dried lamb-lung or other stinky, small, dry stuff. THROW IT slightly past
the dog, so he turns his head to find it, or moves away to get it... eat, look, toss, find, eat, look, toss, find...

He gets the goodies NO * MATTER * WHAT *he does - * he's not being REWARDED for compliance
or 'being calm' or lying down, he's being *conditioned to associate visitors with Good Things -* 
"they come? - I get nice stuff."

What he DOES, doesn't matter - ignore a certain amount of barking, or hard stares, or growls. They are just
worry - if he will sniff but not eat, THROW IT ANYWAY - sniffing is self-soothing.

Have visitors sit, with U closer to him than they are, & not get up, if possible, so he relaxes his guard.
Wandering about is a no-no - so is looking at or STARING at the dog. If they can't comply, crate him in another
room, & return to Ur visitors - leave the pacifier with him; try again another day.

Tethers & their uses:
Tethered to Success

NOTE re the article - *four feet* is too long for our purposes; 2 is plenty, & actually a bit long.

Pat gives directions on making a portable version, to be 'held' in place by any closed door, if U don't want
to screw an eyebolt in - however, even in rented locations, a 1/4-inch hole is easily filled before moving,
so the screw-in eyebolt is an easy option.

U can install a 'station' in every room, & move him from place to place as U move around the house -
this keeps him separate from U, but also gives him visual or audible company. A great way to wean a dog
from the Velcro-habit of shadowing U around, following U to the toilet, into the kitchen to get a drink, etc.

It keeps a dog out of touching distance, but not in solitary - they can't lie touching U, pin Ur feet to the
floor, leap onto the sofa, etc - but they're supervised, safe, & occupied. :thumbsup:
.
.


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