# Does anyone breed Chorkies?



## HayleyD (Aug 18, 2009)

I don't know much about dogs but have just come across an advert for Chorkies (yorkshire terrier x chihuahua). They look adorable, but someone had commented how irresponsible it was to breed these together. What are your views?


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

just for money.... they are crossbreeds

try your local rescue centre - save you some money getting one there and you'd be doing far more good getting one there than some irresponsible person out to make a fast buck!

*opens popcorn*
wait for it........


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## RachyBobs (Oct 18, 2009)

I personally would not buy a designer cross breed such as this, but I would rescue one. I think buying these dogs just fuels people to breed them more because they sell. 

Try a rescue, there are always lots of cross breed puppies in there x


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

I too would never buy one. I personally feel that the majority of those out there selling designer breeds take no precautions when it comes to the dogs health and the health of the puppies born. they really are just in it for the money.

I would rescue one, but would never EVER buy one.


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

we have a chi x yorkie,and wouldnt hesitate to buy another in the future.


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## Dr.Marie (Jun 21, 2009)

I've seen a number of Chorkies in my practice and I think they are sweet little dogs. So far the ones I have seen don't have any more health problems than a yorkie or a chihuahua would have.

While personally, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a dog, if you've got the cash, I would say go for it!


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

I think they are cute aswell, I have seen quite a few about. xxxx


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## HayleyD (Aug 18, 2009)

Dr.Marie said:


> I've seen a number of Chorkies in my practice and I think they are sweet little dogs. So far the ones I have seen don't have any more health problems than a yorkie or a chihuahua would have.
> 
> While personally, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a dog, if you've got the cash, I would say go for it!


Thanks Dr. Marie and everyone for your replies. I have spent the afternoon researching them on the net and the prices very so much (I have seen some advertised at £200 and others at £450). What would you say is a fair price?


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

HayleyD said:


> Thanks Dr. Marie and everyone for your replies. I have spent the afternoon researching them on the net and the prices very so much (I have seen some advertised at £200 and others at £450). What would you say is a fair price?


about £50.....

id pay in excess of £300 for a KC reg dog with health tests etc... i wouldnt pay more than £50 for ANY crossbreed,


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Good luck with your search.
I have 3 crossbreeds and they are wonderful pets.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

Dr.Marie said:


> While personally, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a dog,* if you've got the cash, I would say go for it!*


And boost yet another irresponsible money grabbing back yard breeders bank balance while huge numbers of these dogs are in rescues everywhere ? 
And why are rescues full of such dogs ? Because of the irresponsible money grabbing back yard breeders churning them out, flogging them to anyone who has a wad of money and dumping the rest, [ the one`s they can`t flog ], in to the rescue centre`s, and the one`s which have turned out nothing like the buyers wanted, [ because there is no way to know how a crossbreed will turn out in terms of predominant traits, size etc ], so off they go to a rescue as well but still came from the same source in the first place.

So I would advise if the OP or anyone else wanting a crossbreed `has got the cash`, please consider adopting from a rescue and donating the cash to them where it will save lives  instead of to a breeder who will use it for a luxury holiday or whatever other perks they fancy and can finance because of breeding *unethically* :frown2:


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

I actually think its up to the person who wishes to buy these dogs.
I have three crossbreeds my choice my money at the end of the day!
They make wonderful pets


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

well said patch


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

HayleyD said:


> Thanks Dr. Marie and everyone for your replies. I have spent the afternoon researching them on the net and the prices very so much (I have seen some advertised at £200 and others at £450). *What would you say is a fair price?*


They are crossbreeds therefore have been unethically bred. The same crossbreed from a rescue would involve a donation of anything from £50 to £150 and that would be used to save more lives, that would be a `fair price`


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

Colsy said:


> I actually think its up to the person who wishes to buy these dogs.
> I have three crossbreeds my choice my money at the end of the day!
> They make wonderful pets


they do - and so do purebreeds

i have one of each and i also agree with everything patch said....


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

my girl was free to a good home,the also bought her to me.Turned out she had a heart problem which requires daily medication for the rest of her life,but due to her small size and weight costs are minimal.This we discovered soon after getting her when she kept coughing/gagging.she was around 5years old when we got her,we have had her now for 5 years.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

Colsy said:


> I actually think its up to the person who wishes to buy these dogs.
> I have three crossbreeds my choice my money at the end of the day!
> They make wonderful pets


I have two crossbreeds now and had others before them. My choice, my money too - it went on their rescue adoption fee`s which has, along with every donation that goes with adoption, *saved* lives rather than funded more unethically bred pups to be churned out 
Mine are wonderful pets too but I have`nt lined an unethical breeders pockets to have them


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

Patch said:


> They are crossbreeds therefore have been unethically bred. The same crossbreed from a rescue would involve a donation of anything from £50 to £150 and that would be used to save more lives, that would be a `fair price`


im sorry but thats a rubbish statement to make!! just because they are xbreeds doesn mean its a unethical breeding.Many so called registered purebreed breeders are crap and anything but ethical.There are as many puppy farms breeding kc reg dogs as any crossbreed breeders.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Patch said:


> I have two crossbreeds now and had others before them. My choice, my money too - it went on their rescue adoption fee`s which has, along with every donation that goes with adoption, *saved* lives rather than funded more unethically bred pups to be churned out
> Mine are wonderful pets too but I have`nt lined an unethical breeders pockets to have them


What makes you think other people with crossbreeds have gone to unethical breeders ?


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Ooo... crossbreeds. Makes a nice change. 

All crossbreeds are unethically bred.

All purebreds are ethically bred.

Cadillacs live in trees and eat pencils.


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

Colsy said:


> What makes you think other people with crossbreeds have gone to unethical breeders ?


what makes them think all xbreeding is unethical??? there are purebreeds in rescues to,and puppy farms churning out kc reg pedigrees as well as xbreeds


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

shortbackandsides said:


> what makes them think all xbreeding is unethical??? there are purebreeds in rescues to,and puppy farms churning out kc reg pedigrees as well as xbreeds


I know its very sad all round.:sad:


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I have to say that BYB and puppy mills Do Not only deal with x breed they do alot of purebreeds also. Whatever type of dog you get cross or pure you need to feel comfortable where you get it from always visit and watch the interaction between owner and adult dogs. Certain health tests are important and if you have the net you can find out what tests are important for each breed....Jill


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

canuckjill said:


> I have to say that BYB and puppy mills Do Not only deal with x breed they do alot of purebreeds also. Whatever type of dog you get cross or pure you need to feel comfortable where you get it from always visit and watch the interaction between owner and adult dogs. Certain health tests are important and if you have the net you can find out what tests are important for each breed....Jill


excellent post,its a shame that some individuals are so blinkered to the reality


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

shortbackandsides said:


> im sorry but thats a rubbish statement to make!! just because they are xbreeds doesn mean its a unethical breeding.Many so called registered purebreed breeders are crap and anything but ethical.There are as many puppy farms breeding kc reg dogs as any crossbreed breeders.


I have`nt said there are no unethical breeders of purebreds, there certainly are, they are every bit as bad as all crossbreed breeders. There is no reason to breed crosses, they are a money making resource, nothing more. Health testing is even claimed for crosses as making the breeder `ethical` however tests for one breed do not correspond to the other, there are many well known crosses which now have hereditary diseases of their own because of the mixes, and skeletal issues because of dogs of unmatched skeletal build - like one of mine has, she is of a crossing deliberately churned out as a designer type...

So no it`s not a rubbish statement to make, the only people imo who should be breeding are those who breed same to same, [ as it`s the only way to have any chance of knowing what size and traits are likely ], are careful about the lines involved, fully health test for all known hereditary testable conditions, sell with contracts, and take responsibility for the life time of the pups they have bred should any of them need help including rehoming at any time. 
Anyone doing any less - yes including those breeding purebreds - are unethical.


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## Ladywiccana (Feb 24, 2008)

*The trouble with this scenario (sp) though, is that no matter how many times its "Debated", It will still be there.

If there were laws bought in to police breeders of designer dogs, how would they be monitored? and if that was so, it would make crossbreeds even more desirable to have on the black market! Because if people think they cant get or have them, they want them even more.............
But again the same rules apply to pedigree breeders, theres good and bad on every side, it is the ying and yang way............
So unfortunately its a no win situation for all involved really, and i personally have nothing against either pedigrees or cross breeds*


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## Suek (Apr 1, 2008)

I'd rep you Patch for post 11 but dont know how to 

well said :thumbup1:


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

Colsy said:


> What makes you think other people with crossbreeds have gone to unethical breeders ?


IMO all breeders of commercial crossbreeds are unethical, ergo anyone buying directly from them has bought from an unethical breeder every bit as much as anyone buying from a purebred breeder who does`nt do everything properly has bought from an equally unethical breeder.


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

ladywiccana said:


> *The trouble with this scenario (sp) though, is that no matter how many times its "Debated", It will still be there.
> 
> If there were laws bought in to police breeders of designer dogs, how would they be monitored? and if that was so, it would make crossbreeds even more desirable to have on the black market! Because if people think they cant get or have them, they want them even more.............
> But again the same rules apply to pedigree breeders, theres good and bad on every side, it is the ying and yang way............
> So unfortunately its a no win situation for all involved really, and i personally have nothing against either pedigrees or cross breeds*


no - having all dogs - chipped etc and all breeders lisenced - dog lisences etc... in do believe there are ways round it...



Suek said:


> I'd rep you Patch for post 11 but dont know how to
> 
> well said :thumbup1:


see the kinda weigh scales near the report button??? press that - and you can do it like that

im also going to rep you patch


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

nic101 said:


> no - having all dogs - chipped etc and all breeders lisenced - dog lisences etc... in do believe there are ways round it...
> 
> see the kinda weigh scales near the report button??? press that - and you can do it like that
> 
> im also going to rep you patch


many puppy farmers do hold licenses,and i cant see what difference a chip will make?


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## Ladywiccana (Feb 24, 2008)

nic101 said:


> no - having all dogs - chipped etc and all breeders lisenced - dog lisences etc... in do believe there are ways round it...
> 
> 
> > *I agree with that, but what i meant was how would they get to the breeders that breed from home??? Im quite interested in this??*


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Patch said:


> IMO all breeders of commercial crossbreeds are unethical, ergo anyone buying directly from them has bought from an unethical breeder every bit as much as anyone buying from a purebred breeder who does`nt do everything properly has bought from an equally unethical breeder.


Well truth be known I wouldn't buy a cross or a kc reg from a commercial breeder. All breeds now known came from crosses somewhere down the line. And some breeds not currently recognized by the kc in the UK may one day be recognized it just takes along time. Not all cross breeders are bad and not all kc reg breeders are bad you just have to check em out. How about we just drop the cross--pure argument I think the op got her question answered about what and where to look...Jill


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> I have to say that BYB and puppy mills Do Not only deal with x breed they do alot of purebreeds also. Whatever type of dog you get cross or pure you need to feel comfortable where you get it from always visit and watch the interaction between owner and adult dogs. Certain health tests are important and if you have the net you can find out what tests are important for each breed....Jill


Agree 100%. I have schnauzers and very very unfortunately due to the popularity of the miniture schnauzer, the puppy farms in Wales are Rife with poor little mini girls being bred and bred time and time again with no care given to thier emotional, social or physical health. NO health tests done no nothing except the bare basics, they even breed from minis who have the congenital problems of the eyes which is a know heralth concern in the breed. It s appauling.

I choose to breed pure bred schnauzers follow all the rules and hopefully improve on the breed and maintain good health in all the pups. My choice. My friend had a litter of dalmation x Goldens retrievers both dogs were loved pets and health checked, the pups reared in a warm and loveing home with lots of stimuli. After the birth they had round the clock care love and attention and the mother dog was given everything she needed to allow her to feed her pups well and then recover from the birth. I wouldnt call this unethical, not my choice but then we all have different ways of thinking and want different things and all her pups went to well checked vetted home and she keeps in topuch with the owners and would take back any pup she ever needed to. So its not only X breeds that run the risk of being unethically bred No unfortunately its the purebreds aswell. That is why Im working towards being in a position to help foster some of the schnauzer girls that are once used and abused by these evil people are thrown out like rubbish

Sorry just my pennies worth


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

i yet have to find a post which states that purebreds aint affected by BYB on this thread???

We all know both sites are affected but fact is that in the x breeding there is only a tiny tiny minority actually doing health tests...


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Natik said:


> i yet have to find a post which states that purebreds aint affected by BYB on this thread???
> 
> We all know both sites are affected but fact is that in the x breeding there is only a tiny tiny minority actually doing health tests...


And that is a shame, and testing is definetly important, hopefully this thread has given the op insight to make sure that the pup they are looking for is health tested ...Jill


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

ladywiccana said:


> *The trouble with this scenario (sp) though, is that no matter how many times its "Debated", It will still be there. *


Yes, sadly human nature, greed, and `want` will always be around.



> *If there were laws bought in to police breeders of designer dogs, how would they be monitored?*


By banning crossbreeding altogether as there is no reason for it, compulsory full health DNA testing of all un-neutered dogs, [ to put people off being....careless...], licensing of all un-neutered dogs which are potentially to be bred from, compulsory neuter of all which are not to be bred from, crossmatching of DNA of all new pups to trace/confirm who bred them, strict licensing of all who intend to breed, and genetics panels to approve all potential matings to ensure they are as good as possible for each breeds gene pool worldwide, that`s what I would like to see done at least but that`s never going to happen unfortunately, the human species is far too greedy and complacent to bring in something like this.
>
>



> *So unfortunately its a no win situation for all involved really, *


Well, not for dogs anyway :frown2:



> *and i personally have nothing against either pedigrees or cross breeds*


Nor do I, I love them all  
I have 6 rescue dogs, purebreds and crosses, 5 of them have hereditary issues including deafness to CEA to skeletal mis-match, all as a result of unethical purebreed and crossbreed breeders - it`s unethical breeders I take issue with, not the dogs themselves.

My previous crossbreed incidentally, a rescued Lab x Poodle, [ no I will not use a designer name, she was a crossbreed, end of ], she was deaf too...


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Natik said:


> i yet have to find a post which states that purebreds aint affected by BYB on this thread???
> 
> We all know both sites are affected but fact is that in the x breeding there is only a tiny tiny minority actually doing health tests...


Despite my defence of the mateing my friends did, I have to agree with you, you are right and thats such a shame, so I suppose some of my argument is null and void, I just hate the thought of any dog or pup going through such hardship as they do when subjected to BYB/Puppy farms


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> All crossbreeds are unethically bred.
> 
> All purebreds are ethically bred.


Where has anyone ever made such a statement ?

Imo, all crossbreeds are unethically bred,

*some* purebreds are ethically bred.


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## champagneannie (Jan 15, 2009)

nic101 said:


> about £50.....
> 
> id pay in excess of £300 for a KC reg dog with health tests etc... i wouldnt pay more than £50 for ANY crossbreed,


i'm sorry but i can't understand this. what is more special about a purebreed than a xbreed? if both parents have health tests and whatever you mean by 'etc.' then there is nothing wrong with buying a xbreed...why should a dog be more/less expensive if the breeder has done exactly the same process of responsible breeding for a pure bred or a cross bred? It makes no sense to me...


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

You know what i would not even mind paying that bit extra on the price of a dog for all the health tests.
Pedigree,Mongrel or Crossbreeds all the same as long as they are health tested.
I know when i start breeding, i will do all the right things for the welfare of my dog,and for the new owners of the puppies.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

shortbackandsides said:


> what makes them think all xbreeding is unethical???


There is no ethical `need` to cross breed for a commercial market, there are more than enough purebred breeds already to cater for every need/want. There are indeed some pure breeds which are so unhealthy that imo they should no longer be bred at all unless careful selective breeding is done to bring them back to health and away from some of the horrendously deforming `attributes` which add to those health issues in some cases but any breeds which are too far gone to bring back to health should be let go and learned from to prevent the same happening to other breeds which are not properly maintained.



> there are purebreeds in rescues to,and puppy farms churning out kc reg pedigrees as well as xbreeds


Yet again, no one anywhere has claimed any different  But it`s all the more reason why crosses should`nt be churned out, they don`t fix the situation, they just add to it.


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

The thing spurring more peole on to X breeds is the fashiesta appeal. It will cost you more to buy a Schnoodle Schnauzer x Poodle than it would to by a Standard Pure bred Schnauzer  this is because they are seen as cuter and more fashionable, some will say well I wanted a non shedding dog, but both the breeds are non shedding . Like I said if all that are breeding X's were like my friend with her Dallmation and goldie health checked thier dogs I doubt many people would have a problem with X breeding but this still gives no guarantee that the purebred dog youv just bought has had the health checks unless you see the paperwork, so its a bit of a mine feild out there, doing your research in to whatever puppy you want to get is the key. :thumbup1:


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

shortbackandsides said:


> many puppy farmers do hold licenses,and i cant see what difference a chip will make?


Compulsory chipping of all dogs would make all breeders traceable, that way the ones doing things wrong can be prosecuted ie those breaching licences, and those on the KC accredited breeder list who are over breeding but not registering litters over what they are supposed to be allowed to breed, and those not fully health testing, can be proven and dealt with too.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

ladywiccana said:


> nic101 said:
> 
> 
> > no - having all dogs - chipped etc and all breeders lisenced - dog lisences etc... in do believe there are ways round it...
> ...


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

So can we please get this thread back on topic for the OP.

Many thanks.

Does anyone breed Chorkies?


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

champagneannie said:


> i'm sorry but i can't understand this. what is more special about a purebreed than a xbreed? if both parents have health tests and whatever you mean by 'etc.' then there is nothing wrong with buying a xbreed...why should a dog be more/less expensive if the breeder has done exactly the same process of responsible breeding for a pure bred or a cross bred? It makes no sense to me...


Ok lets try again :

Purebred = knowing what traits are likely, what size is likely, what build is likely, what coat type is likely, and yes what health issues can be avoided through relevant health testing for known conditions in a breed, basically better chance of good health by eliminating any possibility of hereditary conditions and good match of suitability/compatibility for what a potential owner is looking for.

Crossbreed = no way to know what traits are likely,what size is likely, what build is likely, what coat type is likely, and health issues can not generally be avoided through health testing for known conditions in the parent dogs` breeds *because* two breeds are involved, something specific to one breed is too much of an unknown when a mix is involved, and differences in build of whichever two breeds are used can cause malformations detrimental to the resulting pups. Basically no health guarantee`s, some increased health risks, no way to know how a pup will turn out as an adult in any regard so no way to know if compatible for what a potential owner is looking for.

Short version :

Purebred = what you see is what you get, and known hereditary health issues can be easily avoided

Crossbreed= pot luck in all regards

`Cute` just is`nt good enough reason to choose a crossbreed, a cute crossbreed could end up looking and behaving completely differently to what the initial cute puppy seemed to be. 
With a purebred you know the potential likelihood of what you will end up with.


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

Patch said:


> Crossbreed= pot luck in all regards
> 
> `Cute` just is`nt good enough reason to choose a crossbreed, a cute crossbreed could end up looking and behaving completely differently to what the initial cute puppy seemed to be.
> With a purebred you know the potential likelihood of what you will end up with.


OK Patch. Then a Chihuahua x Yorkie is likely to grow to be a big dog weighing 70 pounds possibly, and possibly also suffering from hip dysplasia.

Gotcha' on that.

Maybe if you'd like the OP to get a Yorkshire Terrier x Chihuahua cross from rescue you could take some time away from arguing and look for one for her at the many rescues you are familiar with. If they are online you could always post the links.

Have you asked yet her preference re: if she wants a pup or an adult?

Could you perhaps offer what either breed's health issues can be so the OP knows what they might be walking into?

To the OP. The Chihuahua breed and the Yorkshire Terrier breed tend to have problems with slipping knees.

The parent dogs should have paperwork showing their patellas are checked. I believe that these two breeds also require heart and eye checks, but I could be wrong. With the tiny guys I know, also, liver shunt can also be a problem. Please google the breed's name and the word "health" and have a good look about to see what tests should be done.

As well make sure you are not supporting an uncaring breeder. Some I know have been fooled because the pups are presented in a clean home or a yard, yet later they have found out the shack they were bred and raised in are off the premises.

Make sure you SEE the mom and where she has raised the pups, and that you can tell that both her and the pups are well socialized and cared for.

Please don't support an uncaring breeder of either this mix, or of either purebred.

CC


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

comfortcreature said:


> OK Patch. Then a Chihuahua x Yorkie is likely to grow to be a big dog weighing 70 pounds possibly, and possibly also suffering from hip dysplasia.
> 
> Gotcha' on that.
> 
> ...


Good Post.....Jill


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## missy01 (Nov 16, 2009)

Same here, I have a KC Cavalier X Tibetan Spaniel and she has none of the problems associated with KCC's (apart from being a bit mental!) I paid GBP 150 for her, but only because I really wantd a KCC cross. She wasn't bred specially though, she was an accident.
The whole 'designer dog' thing is a big debate, I think as long as you get the best of both breeds then it's a good thing. Cross breeds tend to live longer and be healthier. Just have a bit of savvy where you but them from! 
Good luck!


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

Patch said:


> They are crossbreeds therefore have been unethically bred.


where do you get this consequentiality?
this is plain insulting!


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

comfortcreature said:


> OK Patch. Then a Chihuahua x Yorkie is likely to grow to be a big dog weighing 70 pounds possibly, and possibly also suffering from hip dysplasia.
> 
> Gotcha' on that.
> 
> ...


this sounds like good advice...


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

shortbackandsides said:


> my girl was free to a good home,the also bought her to me.Turned out she had a heart problem which requires daily medication for the rest of her life,but due to her small size and weight costs are minimal.This we discovered soon after getting her when she kept coughing/gagging.she was around 5years old when we got her,we have had her now for 5 years.


She's done well going 5 years, she were meant to find you i think some would have put her on the scrap heap there are some awful people around.


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

ladywiccana said:


> nic101 said:
> 
> 
> > no - having all dogs - chipped etc and all breeders lisenced - dog lisences etc... in do believe there are ways round it...
> ...


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

I would not tar all crossbreed owners with the same brush, many are fully health tested like mine.
When i will start breeding my crossbreeds they will be fully health tested too.


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

> I've seen a number of Chorkies in my practice and I think they are sweet little dogs. So far the ones I have seen don't have any more health problems than a yorkie or a chihuahua would have.


 Dr Marie - as a Vet - can I ask how many of the Chorkies you have seen come from parents that have had their basic eye/hip, patella health tests ?

I'm a bit surprised that you can make the assumption that 'they don't have any more helath problems that a Chihuaua or Yorkie' as without the data from these tests then how could you make a fair comparison ?


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Shall we just drown all crossbreed pups at birth then because they dont bring anything to the world in some peoples eyes?!? a life is a life weather its a "pure" breed or a cross breed in my eyes! Thousands of KC and non kc staffs and these other so called status dogs pups are born every week and with the hundreds of adults being put to sleep each week aswell thats unethical breeding imo and a down right shame on the breed  

At the moment personally i think the only litter that should be born are ones that have waiting lists and homes ready weather that be a family cross breed or a pure breed dog. Unless the "breeder" has homes they should even think of it 

Back to the op 


ive seen a few and they are small and very cute, the one i know is a large built chi with the scruffy yorkie coat and a chi face!


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

dimkaz said:


> where do you get this consequentiality?
> this is plain insulting!


I have stated my case more than clearly as to why I consider them unethical. Can`t put it more plainly than I already have.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

nic101 said:


> ladywiccana said:
> 
> 
> > nic101 said:
> ...


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

Colsy said:


> I would not tar all crossbreed owners with the same brush, many are fully health tested like mine.
> When i will start breeding my crossbreeds they will be fully health tested too.


what crossbreeds do you have and what health tests have they had???

i have never ever come accross a health tested crossbreed (and i hope you dont mean just vet checked - once over eyes/ears/teeth check....)

prove me wrong.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

Colsy said:


> I would not tar all crossbreed owners with the same brush, many are fully health tested like mine.
> When i will start breeding my crossbreeds they will be fully health tested too.


Hips and elbow scores for crossbreeding is useless, different breeds have different builds, when crossing them there is too much differential for scores to be of any real value. 
The parents of my smallest crossbreed could have been hip and elbow scored to the hilt, it does`nt change the fact that the difference in their builds has created a dog with one breeds body type, the other breeds leg type, and they are *not compatible*, she is at high risk of patella problems because of her construction and her jaw is not right because of a genetic `fight` over skull and jaw construction. 
She is also deaf.
Hybrid vigour eh ?

When you start breeding your crossbreeds :frown2: presumably to create F2`s, what about the missed generation issues which F2s are rife with ? What will they look like ? What will their coats be like ? You *can`t* predict it, no one can, you will be breeding unknowns and taking unwarranted risks that the pups will have to live with the same as *every* other crossbreed breeder.

My LabxPoodle now at the Bridge, feel free to tell me what she `must` have looked like, which - if either - breed was predominant when she was little that would give an idea how she would end up looking as an adult, which breed mentality traits she `must` have had, how big she was, what her coat was like, what her general health was like, after all if it can be predicted and you intend to breed them you will I assume have no difficulty answering accurately ?


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

Bijou said:


> Dr Marie - as a Vet - can I ask how many of the Chorkies you have seen come from parents that have had their basic eye/hip, patella health tests ?
> 
> I'm a bit surprised that you can make the assumption that 'they don't have any more helath problems that a Chihuaua or Yorkie' as without the data from these tests then how could you make a fair comparison ?


All hip scores in UK are automatically added to the BVA list, according to the 2001-2008 completed list not a single Yorkie or Chihuhua had been hip scored.

I can`t get the BVA Elbow results to load on my browser so I don`t know if any have been tested or not but if anyone else can get it to load properly it`s here

http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Elbow_Dysplasia_In_Dogs.pdf

Have`nt found Patella test results for either breed yet, the English Toy Terrier Club [ Black and Tan ] have results up so some do publish them but just have`nt found any done Chi`s and Yorkies yet, [ does`nt mean there are`nt any of course, just have`nt found any so far ].


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Genuine question. If elbow/hip testing is essentially useless when breeding cross breeds is there any justification to breeding crosses then? (I understand not all breeds need these tests, just asking as a general question really).


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

Daynna said:


> Shall we just drown all crossbreed pups at birth then because they dont bring anything to the world in some peoples eyes?!? a life is a life weather its a "pure" breed or a cross breed in my eyes!


A somewhat extreme reaction don`t you think ? What part of `its the *breeders* not the dogs themselves which are the issue` don`t you [ want to ] understand ? :confused5:

Which part don`t you get that those of us who oppose deliberate crossbreeding and do have [ rescued ] crossbreeds ourselves should make it more than clear that it`s not the dogs themselves we are opposing, it`s the unethical breeders churning them out that we abhor ?


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Of course it is not the dogs themselves and we don't want to go down that old route again. "I don't know why people are so against cross breeds because I love my dogs" etc. etc.

The fact is that people are churning out crossbreeds for fashion and because it is easy to do. Any Tom, Dick or Harry off the street breeds his pet quality "pedigree" dog to another and rakes in the cash from a gullible public who are just so happy with their "designer" dog.

These "breeders" have no idea of the genetics behind their dog, no idea of the diseases it may carry and frankly they don't really care either.
As long as it doesn't have three legs which would mean less money, as long as it can walk out the door and they receive as much money as possible then that is enough.

We keep hearing about health concious cross breeders but the majority hardly know what hip dysplasia is, without doing the testing for it.

In this economic climate, with people having to give up their dogs due to financial problems I think it is madness to be breeding any litters for the "commercial" pet market, when nice friendly pet dogs get put down every day.

I think the OP should concentrate on rescue dogs and puppies. I am sure there will be a lovely little dog just waiting in a kennel somewhere for someone to love.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Genuine question. If elbow/hip testing is essentially useless when breeding cross breeds is there any justification to breeding crosses then? (I understand not all breeds need these tests, just asking as a general question really).


I don`t believe there is a justification for commercially breeding them, no. 
By commercial I mean people breeding them to sell to the `pet market`.
The only cases for justification imo are:

1] in the cases of breeds on the at risk list for which outcrossing is the difference between saving a breed or it becoming extinct, *however* that should only ever be done under the strictest guidelines by experts in Breed genetics, and with the knowledge that they should be prepared in advance to secure home`s for the progeny which are not suitable for the restoration breeding program.
Even then, I personally believe that in the cases where the general health of a breed is a serious issue it would be better to let those breeds fade away rather than try to outcross knowing many of the progeny statistically is highly likely to be born with the [ skeletal ] health issues the outcrossing would be done for to eventually dilute then correct, too many pups would suffer the consequences of lack of dilution in the first two to three generations at least for it to be ethical so on welfare grounds I don`t believe it`s justifiable in those cases.

2] Guide Dogs For The Blind have their own breeding program in which they cross Labs and Retrievers, they use a total of 50 pure-bred studs and 200 pure-bred bitches. Their reason is for temperament, both breeds are so alike that they are physically and mentally complimentary, all are fully health tested and medically monitored throughout life, and *all resulting pups are neutered* as it was found temperament problems *increased significantly* in F2s. _[ Which is why Hearing Dogs For The Deaf have reportedly stopped accepting donations of F2 Lab x Poodles due to such unsound and unsuitable temperament problems ]._

None which turn out unsuitable to work or which hit retirement age are homed by anyone other than the Association and are homed `in house`, they take full life time responsibility therefore are not adding to the rescue problem.

The world wide Guide Dog associations have been doing this for sometime and are experts in what they do, they are producing dogs for a specific necessary working purpose for which there are simply not enough suitable dogs of either breed to fill the supply and demand needs - most of the dogs they breed are purebreds however, the LabxRetriever crosses are a percentage out of necessity to try to fulfill the numbers of suitable dogs for the highly specialised job involved.

Their breeding program general info is here
[ Word Doc ]
http://www.guidedogs.org.uk/fileadm...e/Documents/AdviceServices_Cross_Breeding.doc

Those are the *only* cases [ imo ] in which there can be *any* legitimate justification and in case one it`s with stipulations on the welfare side for breeds where I don`t believe the end justifies the means.

Just my views anyway fwiw


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Patch said:


> I don`t believe there is a justification for commercially breeding them, no.
> By commercial I mean people breeding them to sell to the `pet market`.
> The only cases for justification imo are:
> 
> ...


Thanks for that!  I just wondered as the main thing behind x breeding is if you do all the health tests (and all the other stuff that goes with breeding pups) then it's ok.

So if you're not outcrossing or breeding for guide dogs and the health tests are virtually worthless then there really is no excuse for it.

I think. God what a topic to be thinking about at this time in the morning :001_huh:

Now I thought if you did all the health tests then it was ok but obviously I stand corrected.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> Of course it is not the dogs themselves and we don't want to go down that old route again. "I don't know why people are so against cross breeds because I love my dogs" etc. etc.
> 
> The fact is that people are churning out crossbreeds for fashion and because it is easy to do. Any Tom, Dick or Harry off the street breeds his pet quality "pedigree" dog to another and rakes in the cash from a gullible public who are just so happy with their "designer" dog.
> 
> ...


Excellent post, have reppied you


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Thanks for that!  I just wondered as the main thing behind x breeding is if you do all the health tests (and all the other stuff that goes with breeding pups) then it's ok.
> 
> So if you're not outcrossing or breeding for guide dogs and the health tests are virtually worthless then there really is no excuse for it.
> 
> ...


I appreciate you reading the post, hopefully I have finally got something across well, [ I`m not a master of the written word  ].

Its the health testing thing that the people claiming it legitimises them are fooling the public and often themselves with, on the skeletal side of things alone it`s the differences in builds which knock all skeletal testing out the window as the pups are not of the same build as either parent, there is such a vast range of build differences which any pup could end up with that there is no possible predictability of potential health or otherwise. 
Think of building a car - put a Volvo Estates chassis and a Skoda Estates suspension system in the planned build, [ think of them as the spine and hips if you will ], they just aint gonna work together properly, maybe not the best possible analogy I expect but the best I can come up with at this time of night without a caffeine infusion :sosp::laugh:

Also, the breeders who deliberately crossbreed are not using suitable breeding stock in the first place in terms of the dogs being proven in standard and good enough construction, no ethical breeder with a good quality dog allows them to be used for crossing, only ever to further their own breed, ergo the dogs not of good enough breed quality to be bred from to equal or further their within their own breed are being used for crossing instead so they can still bring in money.

I have`nt yet known an ethical breeder of purebreds who would`nt back that statement up - the ethical breeders I know get inundated with requests to use their dogs at stud or offers of studs to their bitch from crossbreeders, they all tell them politely [ and some not so politely  ] where to go


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Patch said:


> A somewhat extreme reaction don`t you think ? What part of `its the *breeders* not the dogs themselves which are the issue` don`t you [ want to ] understand ? :confused5:
> 
> Which part don`t you get that those of us who oppose deliberate crossbreeding and do have [ rescued ] crossbreeds ourselves should make it more than clear that it`s not the dogs themselves we are opposing, it`s the unethical breeders churning them out that we abhor ?


what part of not all breeders of cross breeds are unethical??? why is it different for some one who health tests and has very good results does thier own research into each breed e.t.c but because thier pups will be classed as a cross breed they are worth anymore then £50 why are they only worth £50 but someone who doesnt bother to health test thier kc reg dog doesnt really care thats shes only 15months old e.t.c why are they worth £400+??

I do under stand hence why i said ANYONE whos breeding at the moment with the correct health tests, waiting lists e.t.c not just cross breeders

dont get me wrong personally i wouldnt pay stupid money for a cross breed, or a dog with a silly name

People just jump as soon as they see these silly name about how wrong they are e.t.c no health testing etc when they have no clue unless the speak to the breeder if they have been or not! Theres an amazing amount of Labs e.t.c here with no health tests, but they are kc reg and £650!!! but there is a litter of springer spaniels x cockers that have been health tested and they are £350-£400


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

i think your argument misses the point entirely and it is plain offensive...you did not pass any point across with any firm logic behind it...
only GROSS GENERALISATION​if your terms of reference is the predictability, think again...the predictability you mentioned comes from the breeds guidelines as an ideal...and variability around that "ideal" is quite high....everybody will tell you that after having own dogs of the same breeds that no two dogs were the same except for one or two attitudes (i.e. fetch, sniff around or point).
re health: have a look at the literature in the first few posts of this thread...and i can inundate you with further peer reviewed scientific papers...
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/70559-provocative-cry-truth.html

and when you breed to the standards that I and some other colleagues of mine do (crossbreeds that is)...then you might probably have a point of offending the way you do, otherwise it's just plain ignorance and misconception! - aaaah and our ethics do not include SELLING of the pups...but we ask for a voluntary contribution because we the vet's bills and the tests are carried out at university lab rather than with the barracudas affiliated to the KC and they cost us a pretty penny.

i don't want to come to the point of arguing with a wall... but those statements are BANG OUT OF ORDER!


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## 3 red dogs (May 17, 2008)

Can i just remind members that the OP's question was

*Does anyone breed Chorkies? *
And not
Is it Ethical to breed cross breeds?
This subject just goes round and round in circles, and is, for the most part, getting a little boring, and only ends in upset.
Please can we get this back on topic, or i will close the thread completely.
Regards
3reddogs.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Fact - Rescues are already overflowing with crossbreds *AND* pedigrees with many having waiting lists so that dogs can be brought in. Fact - Hundreds of dogs are put down weekly because of lack of suitable homes. 
:frown2:

Why would any true dog lover wish to add to those figures whilst so many thousands of dogs are dying? :mad2:


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

dimkaz said:


> the barracudas affiliated to the KC QUOTE]
> 
> Gross generalisation


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

3 red dogs said:


> Can i just remind members that the OP's question was
> 
> *Does anyone breed Chorkies? *
> And not
> ...


its not boring to alot of people though or else nobody would post! 

Thats ur own emotions and i hope they dont play any part in any of ur decisions


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

HayleyD said:


> I don't know much about dogs but have just come across an advert for Chorkies (yorkshire terrier x chihuahua). They look adorable, but someone had commented how irresponsible it was to breed these together. What are your views?


no sorry i don't breed them and never likely ti .cute, yes all pups are IMO.

IMHO i do believe its irresponsible to mate the 2 breeds and create a cross breed and give it a stupid name.


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

dexter said:


> no sorry i don't breed them and never likely ti .cute, yes all pups are IMO.
> 
> IMHO i do believe its irresponsible to mate the 2 breeds and create a cross breed and give it a stupid name.


Good post Dexter - on topic.

I don't breed Chorkies or any other dog.

I do like portmanteau names and find the name Chorkie quite cute, as I do the photos of those I've seen.

IMHO it is fine that people do breed crossbreeds if it is done with care. When presented with all the ethics and facts to weigh, I see it as no more irresponsible than breeding purebreds.

On this point I can agree to disagree with those of other opinions.

As I posted earlier, please do not support an uncaring breeder of either of these breeds, or a crossbreed if that is what you decide on.

Please consider a rescue dog, if you can find one that would match your needs in a dog.

If you do buy, pay what you want - what you think the pup is worth to you, what you think the breeder should get for their effort and care - as it is not my business what anyone pays for a dog, as my purebred (of a designer companion breed created in the late 1900s) on average costs $2500, and that is the pet price - it is more for show quality with breeding rights.

Maybe we should keep a sticky poll so threads like this won't have to keep going in circles.

CC


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

3 red dogs said:


> Can i just remind members that the OP's question was
> 
> *Does anyone breed Chorkies? *
> And not
> ...


good post......


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

Colsy said:


> I would not tar all crossbreed owners with the same brush, many are fully health tested like mine.
> When i will start breeding my crossbreeds they will be fully health tested too.


quoting you again as my other reply wasnt looked at....

what health test have your dogs had/going to have? before you breed??
*
and why do you feel it necessry to add to the ever growing crossbreed population and actually try to sell them when there are thousands needing homes in rescues.....*

i for one would never class you as a responsible breeder.....ever... even with health tests.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

All my dog's if they are pedigree,mongrels or crossbreeds are and will be fully health tested before breeding takes place.
Actually its my choice as it with all other breeder's why we would like to breed...our business.
And you quote i feel is very much out of order....

nic101 (quote)
i for one would never class you as a responsible breeder.....ever... even with health tests.

I find this statement very insulting so please refrain from throwing insults,at me when you do not know me thank you.
By the way i have many rescue dog's also...not that that matter's they are all loved the same.


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

Daynna said:


> what part of not all breeders of cross breeds are unethical??? why is it different for some one who health tests and has very good results does thier own research into each breed e.t.c but because thier pups will be classed as a cross breed they are worth anymore then £50 why are they only worth £50 but someone who doesnt bother to health test thier kc reg dog doesnt really care thats shes only 15months old e.t.c why are they worth £400+??
> 
> I do under stand hence why i said ANYONE whos breeding at the moment with the correct health tests, waiting lists e.t.c not just cross breeders
> 
> ...


Hi Daynna, apologies if you have been confused by my stance, to clarify as far as I`m concerned the purebred breeders who don`t health test and don`t use carefully researched lines are every bit as unethical as crossbreed breeders, in monetry terms I don`t believe either should be allowed a penny for the dogs they produce and no litter from untested parents and whom don`t do appropriate tests on the pups should be eligible to go on the breed register at all. In Germany as far as I`m aware its a legal requirement that all breeding stock must be health tested, must reach a good level in the show ring in terms of correct Standard and conformation, [ not that all breeds are in a good way because of dreadful exaggerations to build and appearance ], and dogs of working breeds are supposed to pass tests relating to the relevant breed traits/jobs. They all have to be DNA tested and recorded also. 
So if I were getting a pup from a breeder, [ hypothetically only as I always rescue ], I would only buy from a breeder who health tests to the hilt and purebred only as the unknowns/risks of crossings are too high as far as I`m concerned. 
Hope that clarifies 

To the OP :

This includes the crossing as per topic, and are important things to consider.

Yorkies and Chihuahua`s are different builds and of particular concern would be skull structure, they are such different shapes, and Chi`s are prone to Hydrocephalus [ sp ] as it is so anyone crossbreeding from them are taking a mammoth risk as they won`t be using proven stock of best quality, [ as per previous point regarding ethical breeders with good breeding specimens would never crossbreed their dogs ].

Some hereditary concerns in Chi`s : 
corneal dryness, dislocating kneecaps and collapsing trachea.
In Yorkies : 
Legg-Calve-Perthes Disease, Portosystemic Shunt, Patellar Luxation, Tracheal Collapse, Retinal Dysplasia

Points to note of construction incompatibility :

[ Yorkie in Blue, Chi in brown, conflicts in *bold* ]

Head and Skull
Rather small and flat, not too prominent or round in skull, nor too long in muzzle

*Well rounded apple dome skull*, cheeks and jaws lean, muzzle moderately short, *slightly pointed. Definite stop*.

Eyes
Medium, [ sized ]
*Large, round*, but not protruding; set well apart

**Consider skull and socket size and shape potentials and conflicts thereof ]

Ears
Small, V-shaped, carried erect, not too far apart
*Large, flaring, set on at an angle of approximately 45 degrees; giving breadth between ears.*
**The point being it`s not about what the ears of the crossing might outwardly look like but what`s under them in terms of skull construction

Neck
Good reach.
*Slightly arched, medium length.*
**Consider construction to and from the neck, shoulder and upper spinal consideration from potential conflict

Forequarters
Well laid shoulders, legs straight, 
Shoulders well laid; lean, *sloping into slightly broadening support* above straight forelegs, set well under chest giving freedom of movement without looseness.

Body
Compact with moderate spring of rib, good loin. Level back.
Level back. Body, from point of shoulder to rear point of croup, slightly longer than height at withers. *Well sprung ribs, deep brisket*.

Hindquarters
Legs quite straight when viewed from behind, moderate turn of stifle. 
Muscular; *hocks well let down, with good turn of stifle, well apart*, turning neither in nor out.

Feet
Round
*Small and dainty, turning neither in nor out; toes well divided but not spread, pads cushioned, fine, strong, flexible pasterns*

Tail
Carried a little higher than level of back. As straight as possible. Length to give a well balanced appearance.
Medium length, *set high, carried up and over back (sickle tail).* 

Gait/Movement
Free with drive; straight action front and behind, retaining level topline. 
Brisk, forceful action, *neither high-stepping nor hackney*; good reach without slackness in forequarters, good drive in hindquarters. Viewed from front and behind legs should move neither too close nor too wide, with no turning in or out of feet or pasterns. Topline should remain firm and level when moving.

It must be remembered that crosses very often don`t have a neat merging in the offspring. Any one breeds physical traits are [ supposed ] to create good movement and health within that breed. When mixing different shapes, different `designs`, one or other breed can dominate in different parts of the dog. So the sweet little Chi x Yorkie pup - in which adult construction won`t be known until they are fully grown [ by which time it`s too late to realise the breeders pockets are nicely lined ] b= could end up suffering from a missmatched build which could affect movement, brain space, internal organ space, sight, overall comfort, and you suffering because the pup you fell in love with does`nt have the best possible quality of life because of physical conflicts from the crossing involved.

Imagine if you will, you get a pup which grows up to have a potential build suggested below, [ one of any variance of which there are so many ] 
[ Same colours denoting each breed ] :

Skull eye sockets eye balls neck shoulders front legs back ribs back legs tail

What problems are the conflicts likely to cause to the dog, in terms of movement ability, head/eye stability, neck to shoulder position and movement, upper spine from neck and angulation thereof, back length to rib depth and width, [ and internal organ considerations therein ], stifle positions, tail type and lower spinal construction thereof - would this be a dog which would likely have good comfortable free ranging movement?

Then there are the already known hereditary conditions in both breeds on top of the potentials from the possible conflicts outlined above.

Is it a risk you are willing to take ? 
Do you want to be an enabler of breeders who take these risks with dogs` lives - risks it`s too late to know about until the pup is grown ?
Do you want to spend silly money to buy a pup with so many unknowns as to how healthy and physically comfortable and able the dog might be later on ?

Do you still want anyone to give you names of such unethical breeders ?
Or might you instead consider one from a rescue, perhaps a little bit older so a more known quantity at least, and giving a donation to the rescue to help others dogs - and have plenty left over to spoil the dog rotten with  instead of financing an unethical breeders luxury holiday or shiny new car or whatever their greed desires 

Only you can decide of course, good luck in whichever choice you make and thank you if you have taken the time to read and really consider the points I have tried to make which is borne of the best intentions toward you and any future dog you do decide on


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

nic101 said:


> quoting you again as my other reply wasnt looked at....
> 
> what health test have your dogs had/going to have? before you breed??
> *
> ...


How can anyone judge someone that they don't even know is beyond me. I for one do not think Colsy would be classed that way. If I were looking for that particular breed or cross I would much rather go to Colsy then someone who doesn't care. Personal attacks are not permitted on this forum Thank you


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## Patch (Sep 29, 2009)

3 red dogs said:


> Can i just remind members that the OP's question was
> 
> *Does anyone breed Chorkies? *
> And not
> ...


The ethics involved are a very important consideration, included in the ethics are the points regarding conflicting construction of the breeds used, in this case Yorkies and Chi`s. 
The ethics can not and must not be pushed aside, they are a massive part of it, and must be included in the decision anyone, including the OP, makes when deciding to go ahead or not - their happy - or otherwise - future with a new dog depends on it. Too many just don`t realise the implications and don`t research enough, education is key regarding all potential dog ownership - and that includes considering the ethics of the breeders people buy from.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Patch do germany still have crossbreeds? it does seem a very very good idea with how they handle breeding but just wondered if they only really had pure bred dogs or if the dog who were considered good enough were ever bred to a different breed?


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