# Poorly Oranda



## NellGwynn (Apr 4, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and appreciate any help that you lovely members could provide me with.

In accordance with the fantastic list that Chillinator has compiled, the relevant information is as follows:

- 60 litre tank (this is going to be upgraded very soon);
- Internal filter that is suitable for a tank up to 110 litres;
- Tank has been cycled. I let it cycle before introducing my fish 1.5 years ago;
- pH, nitrite and nitrate are fine. Ammonia had a high reading. Unfortunately, I can't give a precise recording as I have test strips, which only indicate 'safe', 'stress' and 'danger'. The ammonia level came under the 'stress' zone. I am going to invest in a more accurate kit.
- Date of last water change was two weeks ago;
- Tank includes resin decor only;
- In terms of filter media, it uses carbon filters, but I have taken these out whilst medicating the tank;
- 1 Red-capped Oranda;
- No invertebrates or amphibians; and
- No live plants.

Description of the problem:

I recently moved house and, in order to carry the tank, I had to empty approximately 3/4 of the water out. I moved just up the street, so the filter was switched off for approximately 30 minutes. I made sure that setting the tank up was a priority. I just thought I'd mention this in case the description I have given below bears the marks of the tank cycling again.

Recently, I've noticed that Gandalf (yes, strange name, I know  ) has been passing stringy white faeces, and has now developed two white cotton-like growths; one on his wen and the other on his tail fin. I've uploaded pictures for you all to see. I checked the water parameters and the ammonia levels were high, so I carried out a 50% water change. I've also checked pH, nitrates and nitrites and these readings came back fine. Even after the water change, the test strips indicate that the ammonia is at such a level as to cause the fish stress. I've tried smaller water changes and the ammonia is still registering at a level that will cause stress.

Regarding the faeces, I read somewhere that it could be constipation and an article advised to refrain from feeding the fish for 3 days and then feed peas for another 3 days. I've done this, but it remains white and stringy. In relation to the cotton-like growths, I firstly tried a salt bath, but this was fruitless. Now, I have removed the carbon filters and am now using Interpet's Anti Fungus and Finrot treatment. I've been using this for 4 days but I'm concerned that the growths don't seem to be decreasing in size just yet. I am also coating his food in garlic juice to boost his immune system. Gandalf now seems to swim at the surface a lot, but he's still eating well and seems fairly bright and lively.

Based on the symptoms I've listed above and the pictures provided, am I dealing with an internal bacterial problem as well as a fungal infection? If so, I also have Interpet's Internal Bacteria treatment. In your experience, is this specific brand quite an effective treatment that I can use once the fungal problem has been resolved?

I'm finding it difficult to formulate a methodology when it comes to potentially treating two illnesses.

Sorry - a million and one questions! I'm still wet behind the ears and love my little fish very much. I try my very best to educate myself as much as possible and hope that my dedication to his welfare is apparent. 

Thanks to everyone in advance for reading this and/or responding. 

Kind regards,
NellGwynn


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Hmm... I'm not sure what the white growths are, but regardless I suspect they appeared because the house moved has caused a mini cycle - a spike in ammonia levels, which will soon be followed by a spike in nitrites. The best way to help your fish is to get the water chemistry in order first, and unfortunately the medications will be hindering this.

Have you got Seachem Prime? You can use this at a higher dosage to deal with spikes in ammonia, a 5x dose will treat nitrites too. If you don't have any, get yourself some asap (most reasonable fish stores will sell this as it is the the best on the general market).

You can get various ammonia removers, but this won't solve the problem of getting the bacteria functioning again. I would suggest throwing in a healthy dose of seachem stability, which seems to be a fairly decent 'filter starter' ie bacteria in a bottle.

So, buy the Prime, stability, and a decent water test kit (the API master test kit is highly recommended), perform a 50% water change, treat the new water with the prime before adding it, then add the stability, and then test daily to see if your ammonia levels are dropping. 

Also, make sure you only clean the filter in old tank water, and never new tap water, and always make sure you are treating the tap water before adding it. I would advise you do minimal cleaning of the filter until the mini cycle has resolved.

You will need to discontinue the meds for a few days to allow the bacteria a chance to regrow.

Cut back on the fish's food to reduce wastes and thus the ammonia burden.

Stringy white poos can be a symptom of parasites.

You really need to upgrade your fish tank to a size closer to 200L for a single oranda, otherwise the stress on the fish's body is going to make sickness more likely to recur.

If you really need to medicate the fish, get a bucket of tank water, add a theraputic dose of aquarium salt, and try methylene blue - bathe the fish for about half an hour and return to the tank. The combination can work well with some skin problems, at least until you can get the ammonia under control.

Hope that helps.


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## NellGwynn (Apr 4, 2014)

Dear Phoenix24,

Apologies for my delayed response. I really appreciate the time youve taken to answer my query.

Ive followed your advice and bought Seachem Prime, Stability and the API Master Test Kit. I also performed the 50% water change. Fortunately, Gandalf appears to be back to his normal self again and I cant thank you enough.

Ive also been saving up for a larger tank for a while now, so it shouldnt be too long until his studio apartment is upgraded to a mansion(!)

Thanks once again.

Best wishes,
Nell


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Glad to hear Gandalf is back to his old self.

Further to my last post, I would recommend you increase the frequency of your water changes on a general basis. What is generally recommended is a weekly water change of a minimum of 10%, though the volume of water changed depends on the stocking level of the tank. The following link takes you to a stocking advisor, which I think does have goldfish in the list. All you do is plug in the tank dimensions and filter and what fish are in the tank and it tells you how much and how often you need to change the water (the is particularly useful for people with community aquariums).

http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php?AqVolUnit=L&AqTempUnit=C&AqLengthUnit=inch

Whilst still in your small tank I would suggest a 20-30% weekly water change, as goldfish are particularly messy fish as I am sure you well know.

Once you get the mansion bought, cycled and sorted out for him to move into, you will be using a much larger filter, and won't need to do such large water changes if you only keep a single fish (but still need to perform them weekly, as well as hoovering the gravel for poo!).

Just remember, raw untreated tap water must never come into contact with anything in the aquarium or filter - always use the prime for new water, and do any rinsing of filter media or decor in the old water you siphon out of the tank. A large external filter that you will be using with your new tank will only need maintenance every 3-4 weeks because you only have a single fish and the tank is not planted (i'm a bit lazy and only do mine every 3 weeks, by which time the sponges are well soiled with debris - my tank is planted and heavily stocked).

Let us know how it goes with the new tank - i'm sure you will enjoy setting it up and Gandalf will love it too. Post some pictures when it's all done


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## NellGwynn (Apr 4, 2014)

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for the well wishes!

Further to your advice, Ive increased the frequency of my water changes and found the website link extremely helpful. Ive bookmarked it so that I have instant access to it now and in the future.

Thankfully, I never let raw untreated tap water come into contact with the aquarium and filter and always make sure to clean media and décor with the siphoned water. At least thats one thing that Ive done right! 

Ill make sure to upload some pictures of the new tank once its up and running. Im sure that once Gandalf has moved into his mansion, he will be donning a handsome top hat and cane to compliment his posh new premises 

Thanks once again for your advice (Gandalf extends his gratitude too!)

Best wishes,
Nell


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