# Border terrier crate too big?



## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

I have a 11 month old border terrier who I've spoilt too much since I've had her and I now want to crate train her. Wish I had done it when i got her at 8 weeks old but I thought it was cruel at the time. She is housetrained perfectly but her behaviour has become hard to control and she is used to sleeping in my bed above my head which is making me think she is leader of the pack. 

I bought a crate which was 30" because I didn't want her to be cramped in it. But now I've got it home it looks huge compared to her. I'm worried this will make it harder to crate train her?

Does it matter that its too big or will it still work?

Thank you!


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

I don't personally believe in the pack leader idea, so I doubt her behaviour is down to her sleeping on your bed. More likely she is currently a teenager in doggy years and will be difficult during this time. That is why so many young dogs end up in rescues. Our pup is the same at the moment, but be consistent with the training and try and reward the good behaviour as much as possible and grin and bare the bad. It will pass. Regarding the crate, google it and see what crate size is recommended for your breed, I am not too sure on that one.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

If you're not using it for house training purposes then I wouldn't think it would matter that it's too big. I prefer using a larger than necessary crate coz I don't like how cramped the "correct" sized crates seem to be.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Indie was tiny in her crate but she was fine! I liked the fact she could move about in it, she used to carry all her toys in and sleep with them


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I personally don't have any experience using a crate, but can't think of any reason why a crate would be too big to the detrimant of the dog. If you can accommodate it then I would say it's fine. Too small would I think be a major worry


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the useful replies! I like the fact the crate is too big because It means she can move around more etc but its a hassle to carry up and down the stairs every night!

She ha always slept on our bed and is really spoilt so any ideas how to get her to sleep in the crate without her whining all night? I've heard suggestions of putting the crate on the bed at first? I'm not going to start putting her in the crate at night yet as I'm still positively reinforcing the crate idea and I don't want her to become distressed in it at all but I know the time will come where she won't like being shut in the crate at night as she likes to sleep above our heads and se will whine. She always whines and cries when she wants something and I'm
Not sure how to stop it?

As for the leader of the pack idea I do tend to believe in it. She is doing eveeything that would suggest she thinks she is top dog eg - walking in front of me, barging through doorways first, snatching food from my hands demanding play sessions by nudging and growling at me with a toy, sleeping above our heads, pulling on her lead, behaving badly when visitors come round and the list goes on! She has always done this it's not just a stage. I realised we hve been to lenient with her and she is spoilt and now I can't control her when I need to be able to. I can't stop her running off with things she shouldn't have like socks, shoes or anything on the table ranging from paracetamol to bookmarks! I try to exchange the thing she has robbed for a toy of treat but she just runs away trying to get me to chase her. Don't know how to stop her!

Any thoughts on any of the points I've mentioned would really help! I haven't spoiled her so much that she won't ever be a well trained dog have I? It's not irreversible?!


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

I have every sympathy with your dilemma,but I really wish that when people get that cute little puppy they would think long term. Spoiling a dog and treating it like a baby ends up in a nightmare.I know I adopted mine at almost 3 years old and am still working on a lot of the traits your dog is showing. Its not fair on the dog nor on the owner.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Vev said:


> Thanks for all the useful replies! I like the fact the crate is too big because It means she can move around more etc but its a hassle to carry up and down the stairs every night!
> 
> She ha always slept on our bed and is really spoilt so any ideas how to get her to sleep in the crate without her whining all night? I've heard suggestions of putting the crate on the bed at first? I'm not going to start putting her in the crate at night yet as I'm still positively reinforcing the crate idea and I don't want her to become distressed in it at all but I know the time will come where she won't like being shut in the crate at night as she likes to sleep above our heads and se will whine. She always whines and cries when she wants something and I'm
> Not sure how to stop it?
> ...


I did this the other day in answer to a post, and although specifically in answer to their post and problem it does include crate training or how I do it and have found it to be succesful anyway.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It will take time, they can get very stressed about leaving Mum and litter mates
and its barely 48 hours yet.

If pups have never seen or been in a crate they can seriously freak out especially if they are closed in straight away. They have to be taught how to relax in there and view it as a den first before you shut the door.

Just carry on throwing toys and treats in there at random so he views it as a place of fun and has good associations. You can then do other games like hiding smelly treats in the corners and under the edges of the bed so he goes into investigate and sniff them out. Feeding all his meals in there too should make another good association. Always also make sure he gets some form or praise and a treat for going in there for whatever reason and for how long, but still leave the door open.

Next thing is to try to get him to actually settle in there with something. Kong classics are good if he is on wet food, then you can put some of the allowance in the Kong you can also fill them with all sorts of things, if he is on dry you can use a Kong wobbler or a busy buddy which you can put other things in. Also safe chews are something that he can settle in there with and self amuse. Still leave the door open though at this stage.

Recipes - Kong

Wobbler Dog Toy | Dog food fillable toy for paced eating | Kong Co.

Busy Buddy Twist-n-Treat - YouTube

https://www.antlerdogchews.co.uk/eas...ew-extra-large

There are lots of different things on the market, but they are very handy to keep in in general too, as it provides them with mental stimulation and self amusement too.

One thing that can help pups settle too, is Adaptil dog appeasing pheromone diffusers, they emit an artificial version of the pheromone mum emits to calm and soothe pups, you use them like plug in air fresheners, and once you have brought the whole thing you can get refills they last about a month, and I still use them now for times of stress and things like fireworks.
Adaptil helps dogs and puppys learn settle travel and in kennels

Its best to try to get him to settle in the crate door open with one of these after he has had some exercise or playtime, when he is going to have gotten rid of excess energy be more tired and more likely to settle. Once you can get him settled in there and relaxed, then you can just stand up and walk over with no fuss and push the door too, you need to open it again, making no fuss before he becomes stressed and vocal, even if at first its literally for only a few minutes, once he does settle with the door pushed too for longer and longer periods as you build them up, then you can bolt the door finally. Its often best while you are doing these stages to have the crate where you are until he is settled and regardds it as a place of security and relaxes.

Getting him used to being on his own is much the same, you need to give him periods throughout the day with some self amusement with the things suggested.
just take him to where he will be left when you also go out, give him a goody, make no fuss no goodbyes and just leave. At first you need to let him out before he gets vocal or stressed even starting with a minute or two if you have too, return say nothing, let him out but continue to ignore him fora further minute or two then call him to you praise and treat. In the same way you did with the crate build up the time bit by bit.

Other things that can help them settle when alone is leaving him with an old jumper or t shirt you have worn so he has your smell for re-assurance. Pups sleep touching in the litter and sometimes a large stuffed toy to cuddle up to in their beds can provide reassurance. With Malamutes though you need to be sure they will not rip up and ingest these things, some do and some dont, so you need to be sure that he wont. Also leaving a radio on a talking station down low can help as the sound of voices can assure them rather then silence, if it dark some pups sleep better in the dark, others do better with a baby dim night light,
but dont leave bright lights on it can stimuate them wide awake.

It has only been 48 hours and he does need time to settle and get used to being away from mum and littermates and what he has known and is familiar with pateince and time and retraining he should settle and reajust.

Although using a crate may help with somethings, The only real way to get her to do what you want and as asked and gain control is through training, and when she does as asked praise and treat for that and the behaviour you do want.

It may even be an idea if you havent trained a dog before and not sure how to go about it to join a training class that way you will learn different things every week and can practice them at home.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

To be honest, she sounds like a normal dog in need of learning a few manners and some boundaries. Simply putting her in a crate so she can't sleep above your head won't solve any of those issues except of course the sleeping above your head which is only an issue if you don't like her sleeping there. Neither will any of the usual "pack leader" stuff like going through doors first, eating before her, not letting her on the furniture etc.

If you don't want her barging through doors ahead of you then teach her to wait for permission to go through. I do this by putting my hand out to touch the door handle and if my dog moves forward I take it away. Once he can do that I start pushing the door handle down. If he moves I take my hand away. Once he's reliably staying still while I do that I start to veeeeery slowly open the door and if he moves forward the door is instantly closed again. It's never taken long for my dogs to learn to wait for permission to go through. I only bother doing it with doors to the outside though.

There are tons of different methods of teaching loose leash walking, it's just a matter of finding one that works with your dog. A dogs natural pace is faster than ours so she's bound to walk ahead of you if not taught to do otherwise. I don't mind mine being ahead as long as he's not pulling and isn't a million miles ahead if off leash.

None of what you describe sounds to me like a dog who thinks she's "top dog", it all just sounds like a dog who has never been taught what you DO want her to do  And no, I doubt she's irreversibly damaged. You might have to put in more work now than you would have had you taught her the rules from the start but there's no reason she can't learn them now


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

Thank you!

I just typed in some of Maisie's behaviours and it came up with loads of Internet articles saying she had behaviours of a dog who thinks she's leader of the pack.

Can she sleep in our bed without thinking she's on the same level as us though? 

I know I've spoilt her and treated we like a baby and I really regret it now but surely thousands of other owners do this too and their dogs can still be retrained. 

Just hope I can do it!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Vev said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I just typed in some of Maisie's behaviours and it came up with loads of Internet articles saying she had behaviours of a dog who thinks she's leader of the pack.
> 
> ...


More accurately I would say she has the Behaviours or a dog full stop. Just like a kid whose not taught manners and the proper acceptable behaviour and doesnt know any better, a dog will just well be a dog and do the things because they can,
nothing more nothing less really.

Most dogs can be retrained, thousands of people take on rescue dogs that have had no training of boundaries and just done as they like and they get turned around.

Its just a matter of training her, teaching her to do as asked, starting with basics like come when called, sit, lay down, wait etc etc. Once you have even got basic commands in place and she has to work for what she wants and anything you give her and then and only then she gets praised and attention and treats for the behaviours you have asked for she will soon cotton on.

With training you can still have her on the bed if you want too, but with the training and commands it can become a reward and only when invited and she has to also get off when asked too.

If you have never formally trained a dog and really dont now where to start, you have two options either join a training class where you will be taught how to do it and have the back up of a trainer which will probably be one hour a week and inbetween practise at home daily at home training sessions and continue to use those in every day life too to gain control.

Or

You can acutally employ a behaviourist/trainer on a one to one basis where they will work alone with you and her, usually you have a few sessions with them, and inbetween work on the things and do daily training sessions, and they monitor you progress as you go along. This though does usually work out more expensive then a class obviously.

From what you say she isnt doing anything seriously bad or has serious behaviour problems not like some dogs have and they still get turned around, its just a mmatter of making the commitment and having the time and patience to teach her and see it through.


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## HollyBolly (Jul 22, 2012)

Hi

We have a border terrier who was crate trained as a pup and slept in his crate in the utility room every night until he was about 6 months. 
Then we had a cold winter and I let him sleep on my bed.....
I guess you can guess the rest. 
Generally he starts the night at the end of the bed but invariably he ends up on my pillow next to my head.

And I wouldn't have it any other way.....

He's five now. We have clicker trained him not to rush through doors and he now walks on a loose lead. You do need to be quite firm with borders ; they do push their luck!

I know that there are conflicting views on how to train dogs but I guess much depends upon what you want from your dog.

I don't think my BT sleeps on my pillow because he wants to dominate me, I simply think that he loves being near me.

Best wishes with your training. It does get easier!


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I have two dogs. One sleeps at the bottom of the bed. My tiny yorkie likes to curl up above my head and when I sleep on my side will curl up asleep on me. She is just very affectionate and people orientated. My other dog is more independent. Unless it bothers you I wouldn't crate train just for that reason as it won't change any of the other behaviours. She is crate trained and has the largest one available.


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

Holly bolly - Maisie doesn't just sleep by me on her pillow she sleeps above both me and my partner as if she's dominating us! She never sleeps or starts off down the bottom she just straight away jumps onto the bed as if its her own and sleeps above us and won't move if we want to get in!

Out of interest - how did you train yours to loose lead walk? 

I'm really hoping Maisie can be trained out of some o her awful habits! 

She goes absolutely mental everytime I get the Hoover out and I have to shut her in the car outside my house while I Hoover because she tries to attack it and howls etc! Any ideas on how to train her out of that?


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## HollyBolly (Jul 22, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about Maisie sleeping above you, ours does that all the time. He likes to sleep with his back against the headboard and his face close to mine! 

We have used a clicker with Max to great effect - for example, you can clicker train to get Maisie off the bed or to put a blanket on the end of the bed which Maisie uses. Hence ours starting the night on 'his' blanket and slowing getting closer to me!!

As for the Hoover, I'm not expert, but I think you need to de-sensitise her.Leave the Hoover in the room so that she is not worried by it. Clicker train her around the Hoover etc. I'm sure that others will offer great advice.

There are lots of training clips about using clickers on You Tube. It helped us a lot but you do need to persevere.

BTs are great little dogs with a bit of persistence I expect Maisie will be lovely.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

For the Hoover I used to throw treats randomly as I used it and they just now move out of the way.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

It's never too late to train manners - besides she's still a puppy.

She's scared of the Hoover - most puppies are, you need to slowly get her used to it and get her to associate it with good things (treats usually).

Where she sleeps is only a problem if you don't want her to sleep there.


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm worried i've spoilt her and babied her too much to now train her properly and make her realise she's bottom of the pack!

She even whines when I leave her to just go upstairs and I shut her downstairs. She whines all the time. Hopefully I can stop all this?

Also what do you all feed your dogs? At the moment she's on HILLS science plan Adult but won't eat it unless I put a bit of human food on the top. Is that bad?


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Vev said:


> I have a 11 month old border terrier who I've spoilt too much since I've had her and I now want to crate train her. Wish I had done it when i got her at 8 weeks old but I thought it was cruel at the time. She is housetrained perfectly but her behaviour has become hard to control and she is used to sleeping in my bed above my head which is making me think she is leader of the pack.
> 
> I bought a crate which was 30" because I didn't want her to be cramped in it. But now I've got it home it looks huge compared to her. I'm worried this will make it harder to crate train her?
> 
> ...


I have a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Terriers are Terriers bossy little beggers, loveable cheeky little rogues. I don't understand the term leader of the pack. My dog will lay on the bed with me or hubby, he is a flaming nuisance if we all try to sleep on the bed together (got to walk on or lick anything that hangs out of bed). He also lays on the settee. If I want him off I tell him to get off, to get down for my dog means he hasn't to jump up on us.

I too used to isolate Duke when he got out of hand by putting him in the kitchen to his bed. A crate will do the same thing, basically game over.

Trust me her behaviour will get worse before it gets better, I have found they start to feel their feet and flex their muscles at around 18 months old. Revert back to basics and be consistant, reward positive behaviour ignore negative behaviour. That's how I dealt with it and it worked for us, other people deal with these issues differently and it works for them.

I would prefer to get a large crate so the dog has room to move around and not be cramped. Again other people's views may be different.

If love is spoiling a dog, then my dog is ruined


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Vev said:


> Holly bolly - Maisie doesn't just sleep by me on her pillow she sleeps above both me and my partner as if she's dominating us! She never sleeps or starts off down the bottom she just straight away jumps onto the bed as if its her own and sleeps above us and won't move if we want to get in!
> 
> Out of interest - how did you train yours to loose lead walk?
> 
> ...


You have so many training issues with her, the best thing you could do is take her to your local training centre. Trust me you will both enjoy it.

A dog showing dominance to another dog is a different ball game to a dog finding a comfortable place to bed down for the night. A dog will deliberately raise its head above the other dog, the dominant dog will show in its body language submit to me or else. All your dog is doing is going to sleep.

Maisie is only 11 months old the world is new to her and new experiences, the sound of the vac frightens her. The easiest thing to do is remove her from the room you are hoovering so she feels safe and secure. Then in time bring her into the room have her stay at one end of the room while you vacuum the other. I have Duke sit on the chair, I don't approach him with the vacuum, I turn it off have him move to the opposite end of the room while I vacuum the rest.

Training takes time and the length of time varies with every dog. One of the Border Collies my parents had, as a pup used to sit on the vacuum and wrapped his front legs round the handle and enjoyed the ride - comical but not when he was full grown and mum couldn't push the vacuum with him sat on it.


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