# head collar (halti?)



## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

is that the proper name, im not sure 
anyway i am considering one, but want to know the pros and cons...in a way i think they look quite cruel and uncomfortable. 
what benifits will usiing one have? my girl is still pulling i got a short control lead and i do all the stop and heel commands and the turning walking the opposite way as well but its just not working, and taking her for walks is now becoming something i dread rather than enjoy. which is really sad  
im also attempting to find a dog training class that is not clashing with my college times, the only ones ive found are for agility, not what im looking for,

i really dont want her to feel muzzled and i also dont want people to see the head collar and think shes a biter of any sort becuase she is the most friendly wee thing, and loves attention. 

so yeah if people who have used them could let me know of any benifits over using a collar and lead and how to correctly use them...they kinda look like the dog could just slip out of it :confused1:


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## jayne5364 (Oct 21, 2009)

I had a halti for Anya who is a terrible puller. I also tried the gentle leader. Same thing happened with them both, the ride up her nose and goes up to her eyes so she constantly tried to get it off. Didn't realy solve anything. I then moved on to a canny collar which was a much better fit, she never once tried to remove it. Although she was easier to control she would still pull quite a lot.
This week I bought a dogmatic (less than £20 on amazon) and the difference is amazing. Our walks have become much longer now as she is such a pleasure to walk. Properly to heal with a lovely waggy tail and she keeps looking at me. When she does I just tell her she's a good girl and we carry on. I don't know what it is with the dogmatic but it seems so much better and the quality is outstanding. Personaly that's what I would recommend.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I can absolutely recommend the Dogmatic too: Dogmatic Headcollar . It comes in bright colours and the PCW version is patterned so I think looks less like a muzzle than some headcollars. Kilo doesn't try to get his off and can yawn, eat, drink, pant and even carry an object with his on. I use it as he walks very nicely most of the time but can lunge / pull in areas of high excitement or distraction.

It has been a fabulous aid to teaching LLW but is in no way a substitiue for training and gives me the security of knowing I can control Kilo if he tries to get to something....cats usually . What I will say is that I attach one end of a training lead to his collar and the other end to the Dogmatic so that I control him just on his collar most of the time and to prevent injury from lunging.

Some photos taken by TDM on a meet - all these are the PCW versions and hopefully show you that the dogs are happy to wear them and they don't look like muzzles!


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

I used a headcollar and also his lead attached to his collar ( two leads ) so I only use to tug the headcollar when he pulled I know it looked a bit daft at times a dog with 2 leads but it did work he now no longer needs the headcollar.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I have used a Halti but hate them as they ride right up into the dogs eye's. I now have a Dogmatic and it's great IMO. Very safe with a strong buckle that won't come undone and a good fit. I measured Flynn's neck and muzzle and sent the measurements to Dogmatic who then sent the correct size. 








The Dogmatic looks so much more comfortable then the Halti, Gencon and Canny and once on it doesn't move. 
I do still attach it with a Halti link to either his collar or harness for those just in case accidents!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Another vote for the Dogmatic here - I have one for Blue, he is good on the lead and the vast majority of our walks are off lead anyway, but I use it on him when we're going busy places, or somewhere like the vets. He isn't a puller - but he's 11 stone and I'm 8 stone - if he wanted to go, I couldn't hold him back without the Dogmatic  Brilliant things - very comfy for the dog and don't look like muzzles.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

What sort of dog is she? If she doesn't have much of a nose, no headcollar is going to work!

I don't like haltis or gentle leaders or anything else that rides up. The Dogmatic is fitted, doesn't ride up or change shape at all and it is cushioned so it never cuts in. It also comes in pretty colours and patterns so that nobody thinks it is a muzzle.

The proper way to use one is with a double ended lead. One end clips to the dogmatic, under the dog's chin, the other end clips to her ordinary collar. That way you can still practice your loose leash walking with the collar and the headcollar end only comes into play when needed.

It is extra back up and gives you more confidence, which is half the battle. BUT, don't think you can just put it on and presto! no more pulling. The dog needs to be desensitized to anything that is going around the nose and mouth. It needs about a week of showing it to her, giving her a treat, hanging over her nose, treat, letting her wear it in the house, lots of treats. The dog must be comfortable and happy to wear it before you even attempt to use it to stop pulling, otherwise she will spend most of the time trying to paw it off.


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## ChatterPuss (Sep 4, 2010)

Both my dogs have halti head collars. the larger one is used to it and it had immediate effect and stopped him pulling instantly. My second one has not been as effected as it was a little big for her as a pup, but now she has grown into it, it is great! 
I must add though that the halti is a training aid and not a permanent fixture!! Mine are now learning that they have the head collar if they pull!


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

thanks everyone think im going to go order a dogmatic. i dont plan on it being forever but a nice training aid to help me out with the pulling since nothing else is working :mad2:

thanks for posting the pictures, i like how the dogs are clearly still able to open thier mouths to pant/carry things/drink etc


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## Wagtime (Mar 21, 2011)

Hi, just a quick comment on here about head collars in general. Have had friends who use the Dogmatic and the Gentle Leader and loved them both. 

From a personal perspective, I've used the Halti on my Bedlington Terrier often and do use it occasionally when I need to keep him a bit more focussed. Once I had got the pulling on the lead issue sorted, I went back to using just a lead and collar although I use a harness on him now which I find gives me better control and less pressure and stress on his neck.

I did get a Canny Collar and despite the really good service from the company, I was really disappointed. It rode up into my dog's eyes too much and eventually he clawed his way out of it causing some injury to his face (not his eye luckily) and his claw. This is just my personal experience and I have seen them work very effectively.

Going back to the Halti, I've used and trained people to use it with great success BUT there is a knack to it and it takes a bit of getting used to for both dog and owner. The trick is to use a double ended lead and keep the nose part loose at all times. I see all sorts of different techiques with this which often are causing damage and distress to the dogs. It's a good product but it really does need explaining to owners before they use it rather than letting them work on it by themselves.

To give you an example, yesterday, I saw a GSD trying to get one off his face and his owner holding the lead really tight so the poor dog was unable to move. He was struggling and the owner was not really paying attention to the discomfort but was trying to "correct" the behaviour. Normally I would say nothing, but this time I approached them and suggested that they might think about keeping it loose. Obviously the owner took this as a criticism and said that he knew what he was doing and had been to lots of different trainers in the past. I apologised for interrupting them and walked away thinking that I should have left well alone. However, that dog looked very stressed and they were about to take it into a busy shopping area with lots of people and noise around.

What I would say is that if you are going to get a Dogmatic follow the instructions carefully and practice with it in the garden at home before you take your dog out in the park with it. Plenty of treats and praise and be aware that it will take some time for your dog to get used to it.

Hope it works out - would be interested to know what happens!

Best wishes,
Sara.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

Whatever you choose, acclimatise your dog to having it putting on. That means not using it for a walk after at least 5 days of positive-association exercises. So:

1) Show him the head collar, wait for him to look at it, then reward. Repeat 10 times or so.

2) Wait until he touches the head collar with his nose, or sniffs it, then reward. Repeat 10 times.

3) Ask for longer nose touches, slowly and incrementally. Reward and repeat

4) Move away, call him, and get him to put his head in. Increase the distances, introduce a word to associate the behaviour with. 

5) Repeat exercises, but slowly fitting the head collar- only for a few seconds at a time and reward lavishly as doing so.

6) Clip on lead, reward lavishly numerous times.

7) Walk on lead with it- clipped or unclipped at first, to reduce pressure, rewarding lavishly again. 

8) You should be ready to venture out 

It seems like a lot of work, but this is the best way to ensure your dog actually enjoys having the head collar on. If it just stresses him out, then it's lost its purpose.:


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## SMILEY MILO (Aug 21, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> is that the proper name, im not sure
> anyway i am considering one, but want to know the pros and cons...in a way i think they look quite cruel and uncomfortable.
> what benifits will usiing one have? my girl is still pulling i got a short control lead and i do all the stop and heel commands and the turning walking the opposite way as well but its just not working, and taking her for walks is now becoming something i dread rather than enjoy. which is really sad
> im also attempting to find a dog training class that is not clashing with my college times, the only ones ive found are for agility, not what im looking for,
> ...


Hi, I use a "gentle head leader collar" for Milo with his lead aggression training and I am seeing alot of improvement, because I have better control without it being cruel to him. The design of this collar compared to the halti enables the lead to be attached under the dogs chin rather than at the dogs cheek like the halti, it is more gentle to the dog but still allows you to control him and has been proved to bring excellent results. Go onto youtube.com and tap in "Gentle head leader collar" and you will see what I mean.
Good luck and let me know what you think.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

The gentle leader if fitted correctly does not ride up either- you just have to make sure you have it on tight enough.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I use a Halti for better control not for pulling. 
I do take exception to the charge that I`m being cruel though. How is it cruel? How is a muzzle cruel come to that? You want a dog to bite someone and get pts? 
I have never had a Halti ride up, but I use it in conjunction with a flat collar and a double ended lead, as recommended. The Halti only comes into play when needed. It is a training aid IMO not a lever. It is invaluable for retraining aggressive dogs as it controls the sharp end in crowds and can reinforce the focus back to the owner. 
I would not recommend a headcollar in your case since you need to train your dog to walk properly on the lead. Dogs can pull against most things. And no training class would allow their use in a class, for precisely that reason.


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## Rottsmum (Aug 26, 2011)

The Dogmatic is definately the best headcollar followed closely by the Gencon all in one which is better for short muzzled and/or soft faced dogs.

I use a headcollar on my Dane for more control rather than stopping pulling. Headcollars are a fantastic tool but are no subsitute for training.


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## SMILEY MILO (Aug 21, 2011)

Hello everyone, when we first started owning terriers, I was brought up training dogs the "Barbara Woodhouse" way using the large link choker chain.
Now of course moving with the times, I did take advice to use a halti but like most people on here, I felt it cruel to the dog as it put the dog into stress and made his walks more of a battle rather than a pleasure.
I have reviewed both the gentle head leader collar and the dogmatic and I was impressed with both, but depending on your budget these two collars are value for money. I felt £20 was a bit too much money for me, so I spent £8 on the gentle head leader and I am very happy with the results as Milo now enjoys his walks and I am in complete control without any worries that the collar is uncomfortable for him.
I give both these collars a thumbs up!!:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Anyone care to give an opinion of what Size Dex would need in the dogmatic? Staff X wears a medium in the gentle leader.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Lexiedhb said:


> Anyone care to give an opinion of what Size Dex would need in the dogmatic? Staff X wears a medium in the gentle leader.


Don't know; but I do know that you can measure your dog, send the measurements to Dogmatic and they will sort you out with the correct size of headcollar.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Dogless said:


> Don't know; but I do know that you can measure your dog, send the measurements to Dogmatic and they will sort you out with the correct size of headcollar.


Was going to get it off brightpaws as they are on offer atm....


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Lexiedhb said:


> Was going to get it off brightpaws as they are on offer atm....


I see...have you looked at this? Sizing Guide

Can't help otherwise, sorry...Kilo seems a bit bigger than Dex I think.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

yeah i just wonder about the fat head!! LOL Usually I buy stuff in labrador size maybe I'll just measure him and ask em and then order it somewhere else!!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Lexiedhb said:


> yeah i just wonder about the fat head!! LOL Usually I buy stuff in labrador size maybe I'll just measure him and ask em and then order it somewhere else!!


Forgot the 'fat head factor' as Kilo's muzzle is fairly slim....I am blummin useless at times .


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## emmar (Aug 1, 2008)

i use the halti for mollie my springer ....it has worked wonders on her and she has never tried to remove it 
do like the look of the dogmatic ..may have to order one


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Dogless said:


> Forgot the 'fat head factor' as Kilo's muzzle is fairly slim....I am blummin useless at times .


LOL- will have to wrestle the dog into submission and get him measured!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Snce the dogmatic has a proper buckle up around the back of the neck and can be adjusted to quite different lengths, it doesn't really matter if your dog has a fat head. Ferdie has quite a slim nose, not typical of a newfie, but a very thick neck. He wears the largest size, of course, but Dogmatic will let you send in measurements.


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## SMILEY MILO (Aug 21, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> I use a Halti for better control not for pulling.
> I do take exception to the charge that I`m being cruel though. How is it cruel? How is a muzzle cruel come to that? You want a dog to bite someone and get pts?
> I have never had a Halti ride up, but I use it in conjunction with a flat collar and a double ended lead, as recommended. The Halti only comes into play when needed. It is a training aid IMO not a lever. It is invaluable for retraining aggressive dogs as it controls the sharp end in crowds and can reinforce the focus back to the owner.
> I would not recommend a headcollar in your case since you need to train your dog to walk properly on the lead. Dogs can pull against most things. And no training class would allow their use in a class, for precisely that reason.


I'm sorry if I've offended you with my quote on halti's, but after using a halti on one of my JRT's and seeing how stressed she was with it, changed my mind about halti's and I have never used one since. Also my father used a halti on his border collie and like you had no problems with it. In my opinion I feel that the halti is not for all dogs and with the choice of head collars out there I sure there is a one for every breed of dog.
Sorry again if I have offended you with my quote.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

SMILEY MILO said:


> I'm sorry if I've offended you with my quote on halti's, but after using a halti on one of my JRT's and seeing how stressed she was with it, changed my mind about halti's and I have never used one since. Also my father used a halti on his border collie and like you had no problems with it. In my opinion I feel that the halti is not for all dogs and with the choice of head collars out there I sure there is a one for every breed of dog.
> Sorry again if I have offended you with my quote.


I don't think headcollars of any kind are right for all dogs, to be honest. Ferdie had a gentle leader and he hated it, spent a lot of time trying to get it off, but he is fine with the Dogmatic. However, I have never used one to stop a determined puller, so I would not know.

Like ClaireandDaisy, I use it for back up because he is a lot stronger than I am.


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## XMaizieX (Sep 23, 2011)

I have tried lots of different head collars for Maizie. She has a short nose even for a staffie. The Halti cut into her eyes, Tried a all in one rope headcollar which cut into her face, The dogmatic caused her breathinng problems as she was unable to open her mouth fully. Found the canny collar the best as it alould her to fully open her month but she could remove the nose strap as soon as the lead was slack. After havning a nose bleed on Fri my vet has recomended me not stop using head collars.

Maizie is getting much better at walking on a collar but will still pull/lunge when she sees anther dog. Im now looking into harness with the clip on the front.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

XMaizieX said:


> I have tried lots of different head collars for Maizie. She has a short nose even for a staffie. The Halti cut into her eyes, Tried a all in one rope headcollar which cut into her face, The dogmatic caused her breathinng problems as she was unable to open her mouth fully. Found the canny collar the best as it alould her to fully open her month but she could remove the nose strap as soon as the lead was slack. After havning a nose bleed on Fri my vet has recomended me not stop using head collars.
> 
> Maizie is getting much better at walking on a collar but will still pull/lunge when she sees anther dog. Im now looking into harness with the clip on the front.


I think that would be your best option for a dog with such a short little nose.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> but want to know the pros and cons...in a way i think they look quite cruel and uncomfortable.
> what benifits will usiing one have?


There is a study carried out on them (4 brands) due to welfare concerns about them, below are the results & study title if you want to get the full study from science direct.

*Haltie research abstract*

Research has shown there is no evidence to support the notion dogs reactions to different halter head collars are different, all dogs in the pilot study show severe stress reactions to all the head collars.
Study findings below:

_"The responses of 12 dogs to four different head collars were compared in a crossover design over four 10 min sessions each spaced 2 weeks apart._

Group 1 
_Pawing, pawing nose, pawing/biting leash, opening mouth, rubbing face & shaking head_

Group 2 
_included rearing up, balking, rushing forward, and rolling on ground. 
No statistical difference was observed between dogs' reactions to the head collar types.

Based on this study, there does not appear to be an increased acceptance of one head collar type over another._

There were no long term follow ups so long term consequences are unknown."

Head collars used - Gentle Leader, Haltie, Snoop Loop & Response.

Ref: 
Comparison of dogs' reactions to four different head collars, Applied Animal Behaviour Science Volume 79, Issue 1, 20 September 2002, Pages 53-61
_L. I. Haug, B. V. Beavera and M. T. Longneckerb_


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## Wagtime (Mar 21, 2011)

Interesting stats and certainly I agree that a head collar is not suitable for all dogs. I think I mentioned that for very small dogs they are really no good at all due to the height of the handler and the size of the dog's nose.

They are only a training aid and not a permanent solution to either pulling or lunging at other dogs but they do offer a little control for the owner who may struggle otherwise. I have seen them used very effectively in group training classes and as I said, I use one very rarely on my Bedlington Terrier when I just want him to focus. BUT I always keep the nose part loose at all times.

You mentioned that you might think about a harness with a loop at the front - XtraDog do a new one that they've just brought out which is very nice and simple to put on and use. I use a Sally Hopkins Fleece Lined Harness and that with a nice long training lead works brilliantly. And believe me, Bertie was the WORST puller I'd ever known when we got him! It took a couple of months to get him walking properly and we've never looked back really!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

SleepyBones said:


> There is a study carried out on them (4 brands) due to welfare concerns about them, below are the results & study title if you want to get the full study from science direct.
> 
> *Haltie research abstract*
> 
> ...


On a study of just 12 dogs???? Not worth the paper it is written on IMO


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## XMaizieX (Sep 23, 2011)

Wagtime said:


> Interesting stats and certainly I agree that a head collar is not suitable for all dogs. I think I mentioned that for very small dogs they are really no good at all due to the height of the handler and the size of the dog's nose.
> 
> They are only a training aid and not a permanent solution to either pulling or lunging at other dogs but they do offer a little control for the owner who may struggle otherwise. I have seen them used very effectively in group training classes and as I said, I use one very rarely on my Bedlington Terrier when I just want him to focus. BUT I always keep the nose part loose at all times.
> 
> You mentioned that you might think about a harness with a loop at the front - XtraDog do a new one that they've just brought out which is very nice and simple to put on and use. I use a Sally Hopkins Fleece Lined Harness and that with a nice long training lead works brilliantly. And believe me, Bertie was the WORST puller I'd ever known when we got him! It took a couple of months to get him walking properly and we've never looked back really!


 I just ordered the xtra one as it looked better than the halti cntrol harness, Will post on here once Ive tried it


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## Shalize (Sep 19, 2011)

Hiya - haven't read all the posts as there's a lot of them.

There are lots of different types of head collars:

HALTI - lacks the clip under the chin and thus rides into eyes.
BLACKDOG - like a halti but with the clip. I like them.
CANAC HEADCOLLAR - Brilliant, not much material and again clip under the chin.
DOGMATIC - Haven't seen one yet but hear they are great. Just watch out for the ones that do up behind the dogs neck. Personally I think these make the dog appear dominant to other dogs as you are lifting the dogs head up.


In regards to pros and cons:
Apparently the biggest cause of dog neck injuries are head collars so NEVER use one on the end of a long lead or flexi
Always attach head collar to normal collar - particularly if a plastic snap is uses verus a buckle. (Either by 2 leads of one attaching both. I prefer one lead as it puts less stress on nose but also gives the dog some power back)
You do your dog more damage to its neck if it is constantly pulling. 
Reward the dog when it does walk nicely on a slack lead, guide dog back to heel rather than check release when its pulling.
If it throws a tantrum: (which most do) Shorten lead up and place hands firmly on dogs shoulders so its front feet do not come up. Or if it tries to rub nose on the ground again shorten lead and walk off. 

REMEMBER DO NOT YANK AT A HEAD COLLAR. But they are brilliant and save a lot of problems. Would you put a horse on a collar? No? Why not? Exactly!! lol


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

XMaizieX said:


> I just ordered the xtra one as it looked better than the halti cntrol harness, Will post on here once Ive tried it


I had the Xtradog harness and was very happy with it :thumbup:.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> There is a study carried out on them (4 brands) due to welfare concerns about them, below are the results & study title if you want to get the full study from science direct.
> 
> *Haltie research abstract*
> 
> ...


But these are dogs who "were naı̈ve to head collars" (53), i.e. had not been acclimatised to having them put on their faces.

Any head collar that is used should be introduced positively and incrementally, as per my previous post.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> But these are dogs who "were naı̈ve to head collars" (53), i.e. had not been acclimatised to having them put on their faces.
> 
> Any head collar that is used should be introduced positively and incrementally, as per my previous post.


Why do you persistanly keep putting out misleading posts? has to be a suspect motive somewhere!

They were introduced the same way the overwhelming majority of users would use them i.e. as per instructions. Is Rog The Dodge Mugford slipping you a backhander or something?

P56
Quote - "_All dogs were fitted and handled by the principle investigaor for all sessions. Two dogs were familiar with, although not owned by, the handler. Collars were sized & fitted based on package recomendations_".

Ref: 
_Applied Animal Behaviour Science Volume 79, Issue 1, 20 September 2002, Pages 53-61_
Comparison of dogs' reactions to four different head collars, 
L. I. Haug, B. V. Beavera and M. T. Longneckerb
.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> In regards to pros and cons:
> Apparently the biggest cause of dog neck injuries are head collars


I'm not surprised.



> Claire & Daisy, _I do take exception to the charge that I`m being cruel though. How is it cruel?_


Your in denial.

Below, expert opinion.

*Head Collars/Halti/Gentle Leader/Dogmatic*
We strongly advise against use of the head collar apart from in very rare and specific circumstances.
Don't listen to armchair dog trainers, armchair behaviourists, amateurs and part-time pet shop trainers.
These dangerous halters can come off and can also cause spinal injuries to dogs if the dog lunges because it turns the head.

http://www.huddersfieldk9training.co.uk/doggy-advice/choosing-a-collar/

.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> Why do you persistanly keep putting out misleading posts? has to be a suspect motive somewhere!
> 
> They were introduced the same way the overwhelming majority of users would use them i.e. as per instructions. Is Rog The Dodge Mugford slipping you a backhander or something?
> 
> ...


This study does nothing but prove that there is no significant difference between dogs' reactions to those types of head collars when they are applied immediately, and kept on for 10 minutes at a time. There was no acclimatisation process. What's more, most the dogs were 1) being handled by people they didn't know 2) being handled without the presence of their owner and 3) being tested in a 'neutral' environment, which may add extra stress to the dogs' performances. Being in an unknown, or relatively unknown, area, without their owner and with some strange person applying something to their face, and being recorded, makes for stress 

This study also does not indicate the physical damage these head collars do to dogs.

Sorry, but if you are going to use scientific studies to back up your claims, Sleepy, you have to realise the limitations of that study first, before you can apply it efficiently. :mad2:


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

> *Head Collars/Halti/Gentle Leader/Dogmatic*
> We strongly advise against use of the head collar apart from in very rare and specific circumstances.
> Dont listen to armchair dog trainers, armchair behaviourists, amateurs and part-time pet shop trainers.
> These dangerous halters can come off and can also cause spinal injuries to dogs if the dog lunges because it turns the head.
> ...


I see the opinion, where's the expertise?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> Why do you persistanly keep putting out misleading posts? has to be a suspect motive somewhere!
> 
> They were introduced the same way the overwhelming majority of users would use them i.e. as per instructions. Is Rog The Dodge Mugford slipping you a backhander or something?
> 
> ...


The package recommendations don't tell you spend a week desenstitizing the dog to the headcollar. If they did people wouldn't buy them because they just want a quick fix.

The correct way is not the way on the instructions


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> The package recommendations don't tell you spend a week desenstitizing the dog to the headcollar. If they did people wouldn't buy them because they just want a quick fix
> 
> The correct way is not the way on the instructions.


Exactly, says it all about all really!


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Most puppies have hysterics the first time they wear a collar and lead, should no-one use anything on their dogs, or should they acclimatise them to wearing what they need to wear instead?

If people grabbed hold and slapped head-collars on young horses the same way they do dogs, they'd be lucky to get near the horses again.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

SleepyBones said:


> I'm not surprised.
> 
> Your in denial.
> 
> ...


Who dies and made these people the absolute total font of all knowledge with regards to headcollars? Can not see any lists of qualifications on this run of the mill website.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

I have two 7 month old shih tzu. One is a constant puller. I have bought several different kinds of harnesses, which didn't work. Clickers and treats don't work either. Rather than enjoying walking my dogs, I come home now exhausted and stressed. As I have a heart condition this is very counterproductive.

I thought perhaps a Halti might be the way to go, but I am confused, as it doesn't seem to be recommended for this breed. However, having googled for it, many people seem to use it. ???

I've sent an email to dogmatic, to see if their design is suitable but no reply as yet. I also looked at the easy walk on amazon, however they don't seem to be escape proof.

I wonder if anyone has any experience and advice on this, please.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

MaryA said:


> I have two 7 month old shih tzu. One is a constant puller. I have bought several different kinds of harnesses, which didn't work. Clickers and treats don't work either. Rather than enjoying walking my dogs, I come home now exhausted and stressed. As I have a heart condition this is very counterproductive.
> 
> I thought perhaps a Halti might be the way to go, but I am confused, as it doesn't seem to be recommended for this breed. However, having googled for it, many people seem to use it. ???
> 
> ...


I would go with a gentle leader- they can not get them off if fitted correctly, and would be suitable for smaller dogs.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

MaryA said:


> I have two 7 month old shih tzu. One is a constant puller. I have bought several different kinds of harnesses, which didn't work. Clickers and treats don't work either. Rather than enjoying walking my dogs, I come home now exhausted and stressed. As I have a heart condition this is very counterproductive.
> 
> I thought perhaps a Halti might be the way to go, but I am confused, as it doesn't seem to be recommended for this breed. However, having googled for it, many people seem to use it. ???
> 
> ...


With a small breed, I wouldn't go with a head collar any way. I know you say you have tried everything, but it's the way you do things, not the specific method you try. If you try and exercise a method badly, the results are going to be insufficient.


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## emsky (Jul 26, 2011)

I had a Halti for Murphy and after listening to advice that it can cause injury i swapped it for a harness. It did ride up in his eyes and he was chowing (think Hannibal Lecter) all the time, so was obviously uncomfortable. Biggest mistake ever. When he saw a dog he would lunge and pull against it, he's only 10 month so he's continously putting more weight and muscle on. In the end it got to the point where he just dragged me around lol Very similar to this lady...
[youtube_browser]qWMVkNo6WOo[/youtube_browser]
I ended up getting a trainer in who advised switching back to the Halti and taught me how to use it as a training aid rather than a prevention. He said the reason why it rode up into his eyes is that it were too big (it said to fit Dobermann, Weimeraner, Pointer etc) so i got the next size down which i think is Spaniel size. He stopped chowing and it doesn't ride up into his eyes but it has rubbed slightly on his nose. 
After reading through these i think i'm going to try a Dogmatic.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Rottiefan said:


> With a small breed, I wouldn't go with a head collar any way.


I keep reading so many differing opinions on the various types of head halters, either pros or cons. We often encounter squirrels on our walk and I am really concerned they may damage his neck. He is also quite leash reactive and can make sudden lunges. There is an easy walk harness, with a ring at the front, recommended for short snouted dogs. I'm going to investigate the reviews as that may be better.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

MaryA said:


> I keep reading so many differing opinions on the various types of head halters, either pros or cons. We often encounter squirrels on our walk and I am really concerned they may damage his neck. He is also quite leash reactive and can make sudden lunges. There is an easy walk harness, with a ring at the front, recommended for short snouted dogs. I'm going to investigate the reviews as that may be better.


This is what I would use on any reactive dog- a front clip harness. They give you the most control and, I think, are much more comforting to the dog- they don't feel as restricted and 'held back'. They also reduce pulling, but are as always just a training aid, not a permanent fix.


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## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

Just to get my 2 cents worth in...lol

Baillie has a Halti, and has ever since we got her from the rescue. She walks well on it and hardly pulls (unless there's a cat  but she's getting better at that...).

Now, we have tried walking her without it, with just lead attached to collar...this doesn't work as she seems to know she has more control and will pull (just to try her luck I think) 

Also, have tried a harness (when she had to wear the Victorian collar for a while and we couldn't put on the Halti) and this was bad as well - she would pull, and what resulted was her getting lifted off the ground and looking aggressive.

Personally I think it depends on the individual dog what will work best for them (and you). Though the Dogmatic looks fab and I am seriously thinking we need to try this!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Rottiefan said:


> This is what I would use on any reactive dog- a front clip harness. They give you the most control and, I think, are much more comforting to the dog- they don't feel as restricted and 'held back'. They also reduce pulling, but are as always just a training aid, not a permanent fix.


A front clip harness simply does not work on a lunging dog with some serious weight behind it IMO- does not offer nearly as much control as a headcollar


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## katie200 (May 11, 2009)

jessie has a k9 bridle abnd she walks so well  she a labradore havent red the hole threads so just though u add the k9 bridle anywhay : K9Bridle - The Worlds First Dog Bridle, Head Harness, Head Collar

i would recemend them the bridle worked fantasic with jessie and she was a puller and loved to chese cats


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

Lexiedhb said:


> A front clip harness simply does not work on a lunging dog with some serious weight behind it IMO- does not offer nearly as much control as a headcollar


I wouldn't advise any pressure on a head collar for a lunging dog, quite honestly. I know there's people that do, but the consequences could be dire and increase frustration/reactivity issues in my mind.


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## dvnbiker (Dec 2, 2009)

I have BCs have pretty much tried every single headcollar on the market. Each headcollar suits a different dog. I have two dogs that have a gentle leader and my young bitch has a dogmatic. My views are:-

Halti - ride up easily, cuts into the face and closes the mouth if the dog pulls which is not good when it is summer time. 

Gentle leader - only works if fitted properly and snug fitted. Works on dogs that dont pull massively so takes the power out of the pull 

gencons - personally I dont like that they tighten around the face and dont really loosen very well. 

dogmatic -now that they have changed the buckle for a quick release snap lock I love them - they are brilliant and have stopped the pulling completely. 

blackdog - I like them but the dog can easily get them into their back jaws and chew the think string bit


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Rottiefan said:


> I wouldn't advise any pressure on a head collar for a lunging dog, quite honestly. I know there's people that do, but the consequences could be dire and increase frustration/reactivity issues in my mind.


Dog dependant I think- I simply can not have him lunging- the headcollar means he doesnt, or if he goes to, I can turn him away from the direction of the lunge. It is all about stopping him having the reaction.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

i've used Gentle-Leaders [made by Premier Pet Products] most often, & like them very much - 
the nosebands are narrower now than when they were first introduced, as the original design used the same width 
of nylon-strap for both neck & nose bands. I have never had a problem with them sliding into the dog's eyes, 
nor have any clients reported any eye-issues.

If they're *properly fitted,* NECK-strap SNUG & Nose set so that the lower-edge of the nose-band goes no lower 
on the dog's face than the UPPER-edge of the dog's *nose-leather*, they allow the dog to eat, drink, pant freely, 
BITE, & carry a toy or chew a bone. They are not 'muzzles', altho the dog's mouth can be closed by pulling 
up on the leash, which in dogs who are dog-aggro or people-aggro can be very helpful in emergencies.

JUST BE CAREFUL not to slam the GL closed abruptly, as the dog's tongue can be punctured by their teeth. 
turning the dog's head *first*, away from the possible target, ThEN closing the nose-band, gives the dog 
warning that they must retract their tongue, & they won't be hurt. Torn tongues heal very fast, but they bleed 
a lot & are very painful! There's no need to be careless or hasty when using a headcollar. Think of them as power 
steering, take it gently & use minimal force. 

The Halti is very similar, but the nose opening is NOT adjustable - it's a set size, with cheek-straps that are also 
a set length; only the neck-strap adjusts. However, i have also not had dogs' eyes bothered by the Halti, nor have 
any clients reported eye-problems when using Haltis. 
the Halti cannot be used to close the dog's mouth, but does just as good a job when redirecting a dog's gaze or goal; 
if i'm handling a dog on a Halti, interrupting a staring-contest with another dog is simple. So is moving the dog's 
aim off a running bunny, sleeping cat, or a passing bicyclist, & i don't have to wrestle the dog to do so.

It's a very gentle traction, NEVER a jerk - i can handle most dogs on a headcollar with 2 fingers.

for elderly, disabled, very petite, or young handlers, headcollars are wonderful, helpful tools. 
kids as young as 8-YO have handled giant-breed dogs safely; obviously, there's an adult supervising, 
& if the dog is not well-proofed & past 3-YO with solid manners, i suggest double-handling: the child clips 
a leash to the headcollar, & the adult/parent clips their leash to a front-clip harness or a martingale collar. 
that way if the unexpected happens, the grown-up is already connected to the dog & can intervene.


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## arlow (Apr 20, 2011)

Rottiefan said:


> I wouldn't advise any pressure on a head collar for a lunging dog, quite honestly. I know there's people that do, but the consequences could be dire and increase frustration/reactivity issues in my mind.


Rottie, could you elaborate on the dire consequences? What sort of things have you seen? Thanks.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> A front clip harness simply does not work on a lunging dog with some serious weight... IMO -
> [the front-clip harness] does not offer nearly as much control as a headcollar.


i have not had this problem with front-clip harnesses? :huh: i use them while a dog habituates to a headcollar, 
or i simply use a front-clip if the dog is not predatory, aggro or reactive - IOW, the dog only lunges or pulls, 
so TURNING THEIR GAZE is not critical to the B-Mod.

i've used front-clip harnesses on dogs of 150# or more, & i'm not massive nor a highly-muscular athlete. 
my clients also use them successfully on dogs from 60 to 150# - & they aren't pro-football quarterbacks, either.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> i have not had this problem with front-clip harnesses? :huh: i use them while a dog habituates to a headcollar,
> or i simply use a front-clip if the dog is not predatory, aggro or reactive - IOW, the dog only lunges or pulls,
> so TURNING THEIR GAZE is not critical to the B-Mod.
> 
> ...


 I did not say there was a PROBLEM with front clip harness' All I am saying is ON MY DOG- a front clip harness does not offer the same amount of control as a headcollar- my dog is dog reactive and with a front clip harness i can not turn his head away......


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> I did not say there was a PROBLEM with front clip harnesses...


sorry - U said 


> Originally Posted by *Lexiedhb *
> A front clip harness simply does not work on a lunging dog with some serious weight...


and i thought that *simply not working* sounded like a problem, to me.  i apologize.



Lexiedhb said:


> ...a front clip harness does not offer the same amount of control as a headcollar-
> my dog is dog-reactive & with a front clip harness, i can not turn his head away.


yes, that's very true - the front-clip harness does not control the dog's head, which a headcollar will. 
but i use the front-clip harness to turn the whole *dog* away from the trigger, whatever it might be. 

i think we're saying the same thing, just not in the same way?


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