# Dominant Dog Collars



## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

Dominant dogs - they are not really out there but there seems to be a lot of equipment made for them. Most of it works by inflicting some degree of discomfort on the dog. Millan's Illusion collar works by cutting off air supply to the dog, making the punishment seem effortless. And thereby more acceptable to the consumer. Of course, Millan would never be honest with his consumers and he will wax poetically about energy, and visualizing - all the while the dog is gasping for air.

While I don't like much (most?) of what Ed Frawley of Leerburg pushes, at least he is an honest person. He doesn't mince words, he is clear this is punishment and makes no excuses as to the real purpose and reason the collar works. He writes in big, bold, blue letters

Leerburg | Dominant Dog Collar

*This collar is not intended to give a painful correction. It's intended to take the air away from the dog*.

While I don't like his methods, at least Frawley earns my respect for honesty. Millan is another matter, he will wax poetically about 'energy' or 'intention' all the while the dog is gasping for air. Brad Pattison also employs asphyxia to teach dogs to sit with his own brand of choke collars, but while the dog is gasping for air he talks about being 'alpha' and 'winning'. These two clowns are only deserving of derision and contempt.

Of course anyone who is not blinded by the TV media machine and has some knowledge of anatomy already knows this. Just try convincing the fans.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I watched part of the video but I am afraid that that man is a total t*sser if he thinks that putting a rope noose around a dogs neck is kind. That poor dog was lip licking so hard that I don't feel able to watch any more just yet. I'll come back to it when I feel a little tougher.


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## ArwenLune (Jan 3, 2010)

Oh god oh god oh god

It's better to be honest about how you're mistreating an animal, but only marginally so. An honest abuser is still an abuser. 

we should really call these things what they are: nooses.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Yipe!! further down that page, there appears - 


> With more aggressive dogs (on which other methods have failed) the handler should * lift the dogs front feet off the ground for a few seconds until the dog settles down  from his aggressive rage * (see photo to left). This also shows the dog that you will not tolerate what he is doing.


it takes more than a *couple of seconds*... 
unless the dog has been running, is over-heated, etc, and is either O2-starved already from exertion, or is in desperate need of panting to cool. 
if U are planning to suspend a dog who weighs over-50# and is going to be freaking-out when their airway is closed - *be prepared for a major struggle - the dog is in fear for their own life, and will Not! be dainty in their panic. *



> Most aggressive dogs only need to have their front feet lifted off the ground * a few times * to realize that you can take their air away when you want. * This is not painful for the dog. *


* how many is _* a few *_ ?? 
* when was the last time *leerburg* was asphyxiated, and just how blue did his tongue get, that he KNOWS it does not hurt? :eek6: 
did he have bottled-O2 + a doctor standing-by when he was strangled? 
did he have the process video-recorded to share with the public?



> Where a prong collar will often make matter worse, the dominant dog collar * will take drive out of the dog. *


errrmmm... i beg to differ, it denies the dog oxygen for normal function, it can lead to unconsciousness, coma, over-heating/heat-stroke or heat-stress, seizures, vomiting / aspiration pneumonia, coronary collapse, shock, and etc. 
if by DRIVE he means FIGHT by physically making resistance impossible, and also possibly taking the LIFE out of the dog, i will accept that terminology - but otherwise, this is *not* full + frank disclosure.



> _* The key for this work is to make sure the handler is stronger than the dog.  In other words, "don't pick a fight you could lose." *_


and who will be willing to convince themselves that *they* will not lose that all-important fight with a 50 to 120# dog who is fighting all-out to save their own life... _ fighting against the person holding the leash, and asphyxiating that dog? _ 
all i can say is, the handler had better be in very fit condition, and a very cool individual in a SELF-created crisis, because there is a good possibility that the handler may lose... 
and a very frightened, very angry dog with 42-teeth will be confronting the gambler.

i would hope in that case, that the dog wins - and just as the handler was willing to take it to that extreme, 
i hope the dog hospitalizes the handler, and the ACC prosecute IF the handler survives... i confess i have very little concern about their survival, and maiming could be too good for the handler.

definitely on the dogs side, :thumbdown: 
--- terry


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## ArwenLune (Jan 3, 2010)

This is also making me think - if we feel we need to _deprive an animal of air_ to be able to handle it, would it not be better off being put to sleep? Does this man think he's doing the animal a favour by keeping it alive with this treatment?

Fear of death is a human construct. We think about what comes afterward, if we'll be judged, if there is anything afterward, and if we've behaved well enough in life to deserve it. 
Dogs have no such concept. They have no concept of 'I've behaved bad and now they are putting me to death'. It's not a punishment. It's not even a horrible experience. They don't KNOW. They go to the vet, get their ears ruffled. There's a bit of a sting as the needle goes in. They get sleepy. They get their ears ruffled more, and they fall asleep.

That's it. They don't know more. They just go to sleep.

Is that really so much worse that being so messed up that someone feels the need to lead you around by a noose around your neck to 'save' you? What exactly are you being saved from?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> What exactly are you being saved from?


more often for *leerburg* + his customers, it is a dog being saved FOR - 
many customers are k9-cops, Schutz or Ring-sport or Mondo competitors. for some bizarre reason, many of them think that only a nasty dog can excel in bite-work, when i have known many a dog who did brilliantly when a bite was needed, but was otherwise a perfectly normal, nice, friendly, SANE dog.

the dogs for whom these folks are shopping on *leerburgs* site may or may not be entirely sane, anymore - 
what with oxygen-deprivation causing brain-loss, various other bodily traumas, mental or emotional trauma, neurotic or psychotic behavior, etc. 
many competition BSD-Mals are borderline nutcases, if not born that way (from extreme-intensity parents) then made that way, by incredibly harsh + very-early training.

so they are SAVED *for* the competition, or for the police-force or border-patrol or _____ . this is about *function* - not avoiding euthanasia. :nonod: very sad stuff, and nauseating to contemplate for too long, 
--- terry


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

ArwenLune said:


> Oh god oh god oh god
> 
> It's better to be honest about how you're mistreating an animal, but only marginally so. An honest abuser is still an abuser.
> 
> we should really call these things what they are: nooses.


Big Picture. Frawley will never gain wide public acceptance with his honesty. Millan and Pattison cloak the abuse in nebulous terms and outright lies which is why they have TV shows.


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## kello82 (Jan 22, 2010)

i DID look up the illusion collar a while ago but i guess i didnt understand it fully. how can one tell that it is meant to choke the dog? to me, it appeared to be just a neck harness thingy (idk these terms) with a slip collar at the top. it purpose being to keep the slip at the top of the neck below the ears for best control?

lol crazy as it sounds, out of curiousity i even put a slip type setup around my neck and pulled and it was by no means choking or painful. not comfortable, yes, but it was not as harrowing as i thought it would be.

are our necks that much different from dogs that a slip could choke them??


side note here, i absolutely agree with you guys the cm should be honest about the purpose of his tools. but one thing that i do appreciate from him is the insistence to use these training tools PROPERLY.
i recently caught an older epi where the owner had been using a prong on her rottie and wanted to keep it that way. (she was a tiny old lady and had osteoporosis, idk if thats a good reason, but w/e to each their own.)
i thought he handled things well and taught her and the viewers how to use a tool such as this properly, proper placement etc and also that prongs, shocks chokes, etc are for TRAINING ONLY. im sure many of the horror stories we hear are from poor dogs whose owners leave that on 24/7. these tools were not made to injure animals. they were made for a specific use and it is the MISUSE that leads to the inhumane treatment of dogs.
its liek....narcotics for pain control. well...no one really wants to be on addictive medecines, and they can have SERIOUS consequences if used incorrectly, but if used with wisdom and respect, they can be helpful, effective, and un-harmful.
just sayin, i like the fact that cm stresses this lesson.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I had a look at the link and it made me sick....why use one of those when if you train early and properly they're not needed....and those prong collars...they look even worse, surely they could seriously harm the dog or worse.....no thanks I'd rather take my chances and if it means it's a lot harder then so be it
Clare xx


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## ArwenLune (Jan 3, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> so they are SAVED *for* the competition, or for the police-force or border-patrol or _____ . this is about *function* - not avoiding euthanasia. :nonod: very sad stuff, and nauseating to contemplate for too long,
> --- terry


But that's not what he says:
*
"Killing a dog should ALWAYS be the last resort. Using these collars can and will make the difference between having to put a dog down or ending up as a pack leader and a dog the you can live with".*

(what does BSD Mals mean?)


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## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

I used an illusion collar on Ace as he used to be a nightmare pulling on the lead. It is not a quick fix that choke the dog to death. It is used as a training aid to help train dogs to walk nicely on the lead, it isnt that much different to the concept of halti's and other collars. It simply has to extra straps on it to stop his collar slipping down to the bottom of his neck and enabling him to put his weight behind it and pull. All it does is keep the collar at the top of his neck. You dont have to use it with the choke thing on it, you can use it with a normal collar too. 

Oh we dont really use it anymore as he walks nicely on the lead


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

But surely the clue is that the collar NEEDS to stay at the top of the neck to work properly? Why would that be, do you think, if it isn't because the top of the neck is more sensitive and a  "correction" there will cause more pain/discomfort?


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## tafwoc (Nov 12, 2009)

OMG!? Can't say il be getting one of those. but that dog is lovely, i may steel her.


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## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

its a bit useless pulling on a dogs collar if its at the bottom of his neck so in that respect yes I guess that is the reason, but I cant talk for everyone only myself, I found that if that collar was used properly it causes no pain what so ever well not to my dog anyway and it certainly didnt restrict him from breathing. If your dog is on a lead with a normal collar and pulls to get to another dog or person, the result is him/her not being able to breath properly (just example of a not so well trained dog). That doesnt happen with this collar. But thats JMO I know everybody is different. It worked well for me and dont use it nowdays. 

I found that it wasnt an easy fix (although if used incorrrectly I can see exactly what you are saying, its easy enough to just pull the dog about and can cause it pain) We used it along with treats and the stop start way and it worked reallly well for us, however another collar prob could have done exactly the same job


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Didn't watch the vid because I can imagine what it's about but the collar looks like a slip collar to me?


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## Inkdog (Dec 5, 2009)

Further down the page he says:

Some countries (IE Australia, etc.) do not allow remote collars (electric collars) because animal activists who have no experience training dogs have taken control of their legal system. These dominant dog collars are a viable alternative for those people.

Brill! These goddam idealistic pinko-lefty hippies really are trying to take over the world. Hes right: dominant dog collars should be tied around their necks, and all that well reasoned rational opposition throttled out of them. Way to go!

And then he wonders why some of us despise him.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> _* These goddam idealistic pinko-lefty hippies really are trying to take over the world.  He's right:  dominant dog collars should be tied around their necks, and all that well reasoned rational opposition throttled out of them. *_*
> Way to go! *


:lol: :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :laugh: Brilliant! 
we can solve all the worlds troubles with a few  Dominant-Dog Collars  on the right necks... 
think what a diff this would make in the Middle-East, or North + South Korea, or China + Taiwan! 
at the various peace-talks + negotations, every govt-rep wears a DDC and has an assigned United-Nations minder - if at any time the govt-rep becomes threatening or obstreperous, ziiiip! gak, flail, face reddens, eyes protrude; DDC is then relaxed, the govt-rep takes a deep breath and speaks *rationally*... _ now as i was saying, if we were to... _ 
see? it WORKS!  :thumbup: 
what a wonderful concept for international relations -

and consider divorce settlements - the LAWYERS could wear the DDCs, with licensed mediators to control the leashes. :thumbup: 
or domestic-violence, school-bullies, and so on... 
by DoG, this could revolutionize the social-control of various thugs + threateners. :001_tt1: 
inkDog, i think U may have spawned a social-movement... :huh: WoW... :wink:

lots to think about - we could have trained + licensed leash-minders, trainers for the leash-minders, classes for both, certification,... 
(strides off muttering into a palm-recorder, lost in thought...)


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> _i even put a slip-type setup around my neck and pulled and it was by no means choking or painful. _


try lifting Ur weight off the floor by the slip-collar... just-enuf to elevate Ur heels - and hold it there. 
the slip-ring should be under an ear - and BTW* ppl have *died* in this fashion, asphyxiating themselves to crank-up the intensity of orgasm, so for DoGs sake be bloody CAREFUL. *:nono: Not Alone!! Have someone there, In Case.

i think even lifting the collar one-handed, trying to lift ones own heels, U will get some hint of pain. 
--- terry


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> re sequeena -
> _ ...the collar looks like a slip collar to me? _


it is - the sizing is different, being by the inch + far-more fitted.


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## Elliemog (Jan 15, 2010)

I had a look at this link and was more horrified by what I read further down...

I will set a dog up by putting a hidden sleeve on. Then I will have a second handler there for back-up and for safety. I will have a line over a tree limb with the line hanging down near the level of my knee.

I heel the dog to this location and attach the line to the dominant dog collar. At that point I will do something that causes the dog to attack me. When he does I offer the arm with the hidden sleeve. When the dog is biting the arm the second handler will raise the dogs 4 feet off the ground. I remain totally calm and look the dog in the eye and tell him he will not bite me.

The dog stays there until he passes out. Then he is lowered to the ground and lies there until he regains consciousness. Then we start again. Usually these kind of dogs will only have to be hung 2 or 3 times and they quickly learn that you are a big person - the way they look at it is that you have the power to kill them at any time. This is a big big point in establishing dominance with dogs like this.[/COLOR]When this is done the dog is put away to think about it until the next day. Then he is brought back to the same spot and is tested again to see if he will attack me. Very very seldom will a dog do this more than two days in a row. 

It just makes me feel sick to read such things....I guess we should try hanging him a few times!


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

i have seen a the illusion collar in action, the poor dog was so stressed and in pain it had no choice it started to turn on its handler :nonod:

i dont understand how someone can possibly use such collars correctly as they work only on pain or restriction of air supply , so doesnt matter how correct u use them u will restrict air supply or u will give the dog pain otherway there is no point in even using one of those....


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