# Fear & Castration



## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

Ok, so it seems that I may have to get Blue (21mnth old Border Collie) castrated. 

Due to repeated sexual behaviours which are directed at any females (human), as well as some males; we've decided that this may be the best course of action. 

This hasn't been a quick decision, and attempting to train it out of him hasn't provided any noticeable results. We've done some work to ensure it's not an attention thing (he gets given a stern "off" command and nothing else that he could see as rewarding), or a boredom thing, and he's not self gratifying as far as we can tell, so it appears that it's a sexual problem with which the vet agrees (although they would do, as they've been pestering me to get him done since his first visit there).

I've done some research on pros and cons, and I'm not expecting any real change in behaviour from him, with the exception of perhaps a little less humping, however I do have one concern:
Blue is quite a fearful dog. He wasn't socialised as a pup due to living on a farm, and he can go from 0 to fully escalated in a matter of mere seconds. 

As I understand it there is (albeit anecdotal) evidence that the drop in testosterone in fearful dogs can actually cause a rise in fearful behaviours, as the testosterone was a large source of confidence.

Has anyone had any direct experience with this?


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Castration does not stop humping. It simply means he can`t ejaculate sperm. (sorry to be graphic). So it will not stop the behaviour. It will decrease the testosterone - which will make him less bold. As he is an anxious dog already, it is likely to make him more fearful. 
You can ask the vet to do a temprorary (chemical) castration to prove this - but effects will take a long time to kick in. 
To stop humping, distract the dog. I prefer to train alternative behaviours rather than try to say No! I simply hurl a ball across the room and start a fun game when any of mine start humping.
ETA - vets are not experts on behaviour. I`d change vets if a vet told me castration stops humping! Saying Off means nothing - the dog is all wound up with nowhere to go. Why not simply spend more time training so he doesn`t need the buzz? Scent games are brill for tiring an active dog out.


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Castration does not stop humping. It simply means he can`t ejaculate sperm. (sorry to be graphic). So it will not stop the behaviour. It will decrease the testosterone - which will make him less bold. As he is an anxious dog already, it is likely to make him more fearful.
> You can ask the vet to do a temprorary (chemical) castration to prove this - but effects will take a long time to kick in.
> To stop humping, distract the dog. I prefer to train alternative behaviours rather than try to say No! I simply hurl a ball across the room and start a fun game when any of mine start humping.


According to his vet, in cases where it's determined to be sexual behaviour, castration should significantly reduce humping (they quoted something like 75% of cases). The loss of testosterone reduces the sexual urges and thus reduces (but never totally stops) humping.

In cases of boredom or attention seeking it will make no difference.

The reason it's never 100% stopped is that it isn't usually 100% sexual.

I can only go on what the vet has stated on this.

I've used just about every diversion trick in the book when he starts this, but he's not interested in anything other than his "target". He's even been known to divert away from his food and training to "perform" this.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

If it is sexual behaviour then I would think castration would stop it. Have you thought about trying something like Suprelorin to see whether that helps? I think that would be my choice before surgical castration in this position personally. Not sure it mimics neutering fully but it should give you some idea of whether neutering would stop the problems you're having or whether it would cause more problems with his fear issues. I think a few on here have used it.


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> If it is sexual behaviour then I would think castration would stop it. Have you thought about trying something like Suprelorin to see whether that helps? I think that would be my choice before surgical castration in this position personally. Not sure it mimics neutering fully but it should give you some idea of whether neutering would stop the problems you're having or whether it would cause more problems with his fear issues. I think a few on here have used it.


Thanks for this. I may well have to prompt the vet on this one, as they never even mentioned it. I'm starting to think they may have an ulterior motive as they been reminding me quite regularly (approximately once a month) about him not being neutered since they first saw him. :sosp:

I've just checked online and there doesn't seem to be many listed side effects to chemical castration, so anyone reading this whose dog has had it, please comment!


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

Suprelorin Information

Hmmm... this is definitely a conversation I need to have with the Vet.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Frenchwood said:


> Thanks for this. I may well have to prompt the vet on this one, as they never even mentioned it. I'm starting to think they may have an ulterior motive as they been reminding me quite regularly (approximately once a month) about him not being neutered since they first saw him. :sosp:
> 
> I've just checked online and there doesn't seem to be many listed side effects to chemical castration, so anyone reading this whose dog has had it, please comment!


So many vets do seem to have an ulterior motive when it comes to neutering. One of the vets I use has been pushing for it since Spen was 9 months old and has told us all sorts of horror stories about intact males, how aggressive they are, how sex mad, how uncontrollable etc. I've had intact males before and no issues lol. Chemical castration has never been suggested to us either. It's certainly worth asking about though.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

It's a difficult one, as you say you give him attention when he does it - negative attention is still attention, which he might find reinforcing, whether that's your intention or not. If it is purely driven by testosterone as a sexually motivated behaviour I believe he would be humping anything and everything, not just one particular 'thing/person'. Removing the testosterone in this case might help, but if it's become a habit, which is likely if he's been doing it for a long time, then it won't change anything. And in a mature dog can take 12 weeks before the hormone is gone from his system. 

Testosterone does help confidence, which he may lose if it's removed - I don't know enough about the issue to know if his age is likely to protect him.

If you use Google scholar you can probably find some research papers that have looked into the issue.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

I'd get his nuts off and see where that takes you, you should find some behavioural changes as he won't have the testosterone driving him, it won't get rid of all his behaviour as at 21 months it will be partly a learnt behaviour too, but there is no way of knowing until you do it and give him 6 months or so to calm down. 
Chemical castration is something I wouldn't personally bother with as pumping my dog full of chemicals is just not something I'd do, it doesn't stop them getting testicular cancer and doesn't always work 100% nor has it been shown to stop behavioural issues either, by the time the dog has been sedated and chemicals injected into both nuts most good vets would have done the job surgically anyway! 
Castration is a small op and is something I would always do anyway on a dog not intended for breeding as they don't need them and can get tumours later in life when it is riskier to operate. I doubt having no testosterone will make him more fearful as that is a behavioural issue rather than a hormonal one.


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

BoredomBusters said:


> It's a difficult one, as you say you give him attention when he does it - negative attention is still attention, which he might find reinforcing, whether that's your intention or not. If it is purely driven by testosterone as a sexually motivated behaviour I believe he would be humping anything and everything, not just one particular 'thing/person'. Removing the testosterone in this case might help, but if it's become a habit, which is likely if he's been doing it for a long time, then it won't change anything. And in a mature dog can take 12 weeks before the hormone is gone from his system.
> 
> Testosterone does help confidence, which he may lose if it's removed - I don't know enough about the issue to know if his age is likely to protect him.
> 
> If you use Google scholar you can probably find some research papers that have looked into the issue.


Agreed, which is why it's a case of just saying "off" and nothing more. The act itself cannot go uncorrected, and as with any physical behaviour from a dog, a correction is still attention.

It seems limited to females in the house, whether they be known or unknown doesn't bear any relevance. Males, there are a couple he'll attempt to mount, and both of those have female dogs at home. He's not humping furniture/cushions etc. At least not whilst anyone is around, but then; when I am around, he gets lots of attention through training, play, and walks. What confuses me is that there is absolutely no set sequence of event prior to this happening that I've noticed. I could be putting his food out and off he goes to perform, or we could be sat watching TV and he'll start.

A small problem I have is that we didn't get him until he was 15/16 months old, so his early behaviour is somewhat of an unknown quantity, so if this behaviour has indeed been allowed from adolescence, then I have a different problem in so much as why he's not responding to training.

I think as, Sarah suggested; a chemical alternative may assist as this will give me a good idea of how he'll react, albeit that I'd need to wait a while for the effects to take. In the meantime I can do some research and see what I may be facing in terms of behaviour!


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

I think I'd teach him LEAVE rather than OFF - when I say leave I bloody well mean Leave and for-bloody ever, not just for this moment. As I teach the dogs what leave means it gives them something positive to do instead which I can reward. Of course, then you get dogs that are naughty, to get the leave and reward, so a couple of repeats and then I introduce a time out so there are consequences. 

Some puppies will hump as tiny babies, so it could be something he has positive associations with from young - if first owners thought it was funny then the fact you just say OFF instead of smiling and laughing probably still brings that happy feeling to him. Of course, none of us can know, it could be insecurity, are you still there mum, are you still watching me, oh yes you've said off...


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

BoredomBusters said:


> I think I'd teach him LEAVE rather than OFF - when I say leave I bloody well mean Leave and for-bloody ever, not just for this moment. As I teach the dogs what leave means it gives them something positive to do instead which I can reward. Of course, then you get dogs that are naughty, to get the leave and reward, so a couple of repeats and then I introduce a time out so there are consequences.
> 
> Some puppies will hump as tiny babies, so it could be something he has positive associations with from young - if first owners thought it was funny then the fact you just say OFF instead of smiling and laughing probably still brings that happy feeling to him. Of course, none of us can know, it could be insecurity, are you still there mum, are you still watching me, oh yes you've said off...


I've trained a very strong leave, but haven't used it in this context. It may be worth a try instead of "OFF".

This is perhaps the biggest problem I have. He'd learnt A LOT of bad habits before we took him in. He's getting there with most problems, just a few remaining. I'll see how I get with the leave it. Thanks.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

AlexArt said:


> I'd get his nuts off and see where that takes you, you should find some behavioural changes as he won't have the testosterone driving him, it won't get rid of all his behaviour as at 21 months it will be partly a learnt behaviour too, but there is no way of knowing until you do it and give him 6 months or so to calm down.
> Chemical castration is something I wouldn't personally bother with as pumping my dog full of chemicals is just not something I'd do, it doesn't stop them getting testicular cancer and doesn't always work 100% nor has it been shown to stop behavioural issues either, by the time the dog has been sedated and chemicals injected into both nuts most good vets would have done the job surgically anyway!
> Castration is a small op and is something I would always do anyway on a dog not intended for breeding as they don't need them and can get tumours later in life when it is riskier to operate. I doubt having no testosterone will make him more fearful as that is a behavioural issue rather than a hormonal one.


the implant doesn't require sedation and is NOT injected there for starters, there is as much evidence around suggesting that castration can make some types of cancer more likely than not (the only type it guarantees to prevent is testicular cancer but that's one of the easiest types to spot early and one of the most survivable).

There have also been numerous studies done which prove that hormones DO have a huge impact on behaviour (you are suggesting castration to remove a hormone to cure a behavioural issue so you can't at the same time state that there is no correlation).

From personal experience I would be very wary of castrating a dog who may have confidence issues - my last collie was way too interested in bitches and had to be castrated to stop him going after them (straight across a busy road and on for about a mile before he was caught) so it possibly saved his life but the downside was that he changed from being a slightly nervous dog to being extremely nervous about things and lost his ability to bounce back from anything that upset him and instead everything escalated and his fears constantly multiplied. He still had a good quality of life and was very much loved but it was hard work keeping the fear at bay.


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

speug said:


> the implant doesn't require sedation and is NOT injected there for starters, there is as much evidence around suggesting that castration can make some types of cancer more likely than not (the only type it guarantees to prevent is testicular cancer but that's one of the easiest types to spot early and one of the most survivable).
> 
> There have also been numerous studies done which prove that hormones DO have a huge impact on behaviour (you are suggesting castration to remove a hormone to cure a behavioural issue so you can't at the same time state that there is no correlation).
> 
> From personal experience I would be very wary of castrating a dog who may have confidence issues - my last collie was way too interested in bitches and had to be castrated to stop him going after them (straight across a busy road and on for about a mile before he was caught) so it possibly saved his life but the downside was that he changed from being a slightly nervous dog to being extremely nervous about things and lost his ability to bounce back from anything that upset him and instead everything escalated and his fears constantly multiplied. He still had a good quality of life and was very much loved but it was hard work keeping the fear at bay.


Thank you.

Castration has reportedly increased fear in dogs that are already quite fearful due to the lower levels of testosterone, so simply "getting him chopped" is not an option, it's going to take a lot of thought.

With border collies being sound sensitive, I fear this may cause him more problems as he's already skittish!


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

It is possible he is doing the behaviour because he is fearful, it can be a comfort/relief/socialising thing. From my own observations castrating a fearful male often makes then more fearful.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Humping can be stressed related .

Even when giving the suprelorin implant to a dog who is fearful, can make matters worse .

Chester had the suprelorin implant so I'm talking from experience . The implant can last in excess of six months. I personally wish he never had had the implant , he used to like females way too much prior the implant. Now even though it has worn off , he is afraid of both male and female .


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I'm going to watch this one with interest because I currently have the same dilemma, although my dog isn't a nuisance because he still has his "bits", just that until this one I've always had it done as a matter of course.
My worry is that taking away the bit of testosterone he has will push him over the edge from being fearful, and showing this by doing all the rolling on the back, appeasing sort of stuff, to a dog who goes one step further and bites from fear.
One vet at the practice says there'll be no effect on this, the other says play safe and don't neuter.
Ref: the original post, is there an element of attention seeking here, as has already been suggested, or "displacement" behaviour?


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

Appreciate the comments guys.

The vet believes it to be sexual behaviour rather than anything else. 

A bit more background to explain why I don't think this is a fear/stress/attention behaviour:

Blue's fearful reactions are different and can be spotted a mile off before they go "full blown", and most of the time it's because of poor socialisation. I tend to agree with the vet on this, Blue isn't often stressed or anxious in the house, his fear is primarily sound related, and typically is "outside of the home" variety. I've only seen him fearful/stressed in the house a couple of times since he's finished "high school", and on both occasions it was due to scaffolders working next door.

On rare occasions where he is scared or stressed in the house (he was a lot when we first got him), his body language is very different, and he'll seek out his safe place, or will pace a lot. I have been closely watching this behaviour for a while now, as with him being a rescue, I have been watching his behaviours a lot to learn how to "read" him, so I could see where he needs work.

Because of his breed, I ensure that he gets an awful lot of attention and mind games to play, as without them, he's liable to go nuts and trash the place. Humping doesn't fit into his usual attention seeking behaviours, that's not to say it's not sometimes attention he's after of course; but more that he has a set series of things he does when he's after attention.

Other dogs don't typically worry Blue, quite the contrary in fact! And trying to keep him away from a bitch in season is like trying hold back a raging bull, so that would definitely be something to watch.

The thing with suprelorin is that the hormonal changes are not permanent, and if carefully managed, it could prepare him for ultimately neutering.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Any bitch pre implant was an attraction to Chester in season or not , how he changed after the implant . 


The reason I got him the implant was because he was so distracted by the ladies at dog training . Personally I would rather have him like that than what he is like now after the implant has worn off .


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

paddyjulie said:


> Any bitch pre implant was an attraction to Chester in season or not , how he changed after the implant .
> 
> The reason I got him the implant was because he was so distracted by the ladies at dog training . Personally I would rather have him like that than what he is like now after the implant has worn off .


Thanks for this. Are you considering neutering at all?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Frenchwood said:


> Thanks for this. Are you considering neutering at all?


No , he is going to stay entire . He is slightly better with his balls than without


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

paddyjulie said:


> No , he is going to stay entire . He is slightly better with his balls than without


Lol - fair enough. If it weren't for the fear issues, I wouldn't be in such an indecisive state. Although Blue is from working lines, he's not ISDS or KC as far as I'm aware, and I wouldn't stud him.

Taking into consideration his fear, even if I had his papers, I wouldn't stud him, as I wouldn't want to pass his fear on to his progeny. So either way; I wouldn't stud him.

The issue only comes about on the premise that the loss of testosterone may make him worse! 

I think implant may be the way to go!


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## Acer (Feb 27, 2014)

Just a quick reply, mentioned this on another thread about Superlornin worries, Tardak is an injection which has been around before the implant, and only lasts for a month. Think I'd try that before the 6 month one; plus it's a less intrusive procedure.
I have the same worries about a slightly nervous boy and castration. Hope you find a happy medium that works for you both.


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

Acer said:


> Just a quick reply, mentioned this on another thread about Superlornin worries, Tardak is an injection which has been around before the implant, and only lasts for a month. Think I'd try that before the 6 month one; plus it's a less intrusive procedure.
> I have the same worries about a slightly nervous boy and castration. Hope you find a happy medium that works for you both.


Thanks for this!!

I'll speak to the vet and see what they say!


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## Acer (Feb 27, 2014)

When I mentioned it I was met with a lot of blank faces. Not just at one vets but rang round a couple. I think because neutering is so 'standard' now, they have fewer reasons to use the other methods. Probably with Superlornin being a new technology, more vets have read about it and wanted to try it. 
There's plenty people who seem to have tried Tardak on the internet so it is out there, perhaps I was just unlucky. Ring around a few places and do your own research


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I wouldn't have thought a month long enough to see any real changes since neutering can take a couple of months to take effect.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Castrating a fearful dog can definitely make them more fearful. I recently went to a very interesting talk given by Peter Neville, an experienced dog behaviourist. He devoted quite a lot of time to explaining how a fearful or aggressive dog can be worse after neutering.

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been suggested, but have you considered a temporary chemical 'castration' so that you could at least see the effects?

Also, surely saying 'OFF' is still attention? Have you tried saying nothing and instead simply withdrawing all attention by walking away and staying away for several minutes?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Just adding, because I don't know if I'm putting across what I mean to put across 

Having a dog chemically castrated is no different to having a dog surgically castrated in the 6 months plus that's it lasts . 

Chemically castrating a fearful dog can still have a lasting effect way after the castration wears off .

When the chemical castration wears off , not all dogs all of a sudden become less fearful again , the fear stays with them. 


I personally wish I had never even used the implant and left him with his testosterone . The 12 months he had without testosterone has had a real effect on him.


But, by using the implant I do know that a full castration is not for him.


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Castrating a fearful dog can definitely make them more fearful. I recently went to a very interesting talk given by Peter Neville, an experienced dog behaviourist. He devoted quite a lot of time to explaining how a fearful or aggressive dog can be worse after neutering.
> 
> I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been suggested, but have you considered a temporary chemical 'castration' so that you could at least see the effects?
> 
> Also, surely saying 'OFF' is still attention? Have you tried saying nothing and instead simply withdrawing all attention by walking away and staying away for several minutes?


"OFF" is the generic command we use for him "getting in people's faces", be that with play, attention seeking etc. in all other instances it's worked great.

I've since tried "leave it", and it, like "off"; has no effect, which is odd because his "leave it" is fantastically strong. Because of this fact, I've switched to "away" as I don't want to corrupt the other two commands.

It can't be an ignored thing, as he'll do it as we're sitting, or otherwise effectively cornered, and sadly; I don't think this is an attention seeking behaviour, he normally "prods" or "gruffs" for attention.

I couldn't get hold of anyone at the vets yesterday or today, so I'll give them a ring Monday and see what they have to say!

Thanks!


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

I can't comment on the Suprelorin chip, but as to the Tardak injection - I tried this once on one of my dogs and under no circumstances would I ever do it again. It turned my mellow, outgoing, happy dog into a virtual Zombie within a day. And it DIDN'T wear off as speedily as the promotional blurb for the medication stated, either. True, the dog wasn't amorous, but then neither are the walking dead.

Mercifully, once it did wear off, unlike paddiejulie's experience with the chip, I can't say it had any longlasting behavioural or any other consequences.

Castration is a hotly debated topic. Even more so when it involves a dog with some fear issues. What I am unclear of here, though - as the humping is EXCLUSIVELY directed at females ( both human and canine if I understood correctly?) and even occurs in the absence of any other arousing aka "exciting" stimuli such as laughter, or rough housing and is never directed at objects such as blankets or toys....the likelyhood that this is purely sexual frustration from an overabbundance of testosterone which the dog HAS to express somehow is high. I'm thinking that even if it was a "learned behaviour" initially , he would have reconsidered it by now. At least with his own female owner.

Which, in turn, might reasonably suggest that if he was neutered, the sexual frustration would subside and he would become more relaxed instead of more fearful in due course.

OP, how does your male interact with other ( canine) males? Peacefully? Or is he charming to females but iffy with intact males?


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

In the meantime.....have you tried training in an alternative behaviour, like go to bed, sit, lie down, find toy, whatever? If he gives any signs that he's going to hump, can you then catch him and distract him with this before he starts? Telling him to get off leaves him in a sort of limbo state.

Having read all the replies here, and having a fearful dog, I think I've decided not to have him neutered as wouldn't want him to get any worse. And particularly now I've read Peter Neville's opinion. Thanks everybody.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Just to add my little bit ref Suprelorin; I used it on my eldest dog and was happy with the results - I went on to surgically castrate.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

In the meantime.....have you tried training in an alternative behaviour, like go to bed, sit, lie down, find toy, whatever? If he gives any signs that he's going to hump, can you then catch him and distract him with this before he starts? Telling him to get off leaves him in a sort of limbo state.

Having read all the replies here, and having a fearful dog, I think I've decided not to have him neutered as wouldn't want him to get any worse. Thanks everybody.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

The implant is great if you are undecided , I have always in the past had my males neutered amd most likely would have had Chester done too, if I had not heard of the implant . 

In future if I am considering neutering any of my males , I will certainly try the implant before hand, if I got the result I wanted like Dogless did with Kilo then I would go ahead . 

I will in future though not try the implant if any of my males show any signs of being fearful, like Chester did. 

Lesson learned and all that.


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

Hopeattheendofthetunnel said:


> I can't comment on the Suprelorin chip, but as to the Tardak injection - I tried this once on one of my dogs and under no circumstances would I ever do it again. It turned my mellow, outgoing, happy dog into a virtual Zombie within a day. And it DIDN'T wear off as speedily as the promotional blurb for the medication stated, either. True, the dog wasn't amorous, but then neither are the walking dead.
> 
> Mercifully, once it did wear off, unlike paddiejulie's experience with the chip, I can't say it had any longlasting behavioural or any other consequences.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. It's definitely sexual activity. It's isolated to women - with the exception of 2 male friends - not canine per se, as Blue doesn't have many proper doggy friends due to him being on a long line whilst we're out. It happens at the most random times, both with and without any external stimuli. He doesn't aim it toward any inanimate objects whatsoever (to our knowledge). Intact males he simply tends to ignore.



Linda Weasel said:


> In the meantime.....have you tried training in an alternative behaviour, like go to bed, sit, lie down, find toy, whatever? If he gives any signs that he's going to hump, can you then catch him and distract him with this before he starts? Telling him to get off leaves him in a sort of limbo state.
> 
> Having read all the replies here, and having a fearful dog, I think I've decided not to have him neutered as wouldn't want him to get any worse. And particularly now I've read Peter Neville's opinion. Thanks everybody.


Tried a number of different diversion tactics, none of which seem to make any difference. there have been occasions where even a reprimand hasn't worked, and I've had to actually lift him off!



Dogless said:


> Just to add my little bit ref Suprelorin; I used it on my eldest dog and was happy with the results - I went on to surgically castrate.


Thanks for this.



paddyjulie said:


> The implant is great if you are undecided , I have always in the past had my males neutered amd most likely would have had Chester done too, if I had not heard of the implant .
> 
> In future if I am considering neutering any of my males , I will certainly try the implant before hand, if I got the result I wanted like Dogless did with Kilo then I would go ahead .
> 
> ...


Thanks - This definitely requires a discussion with the vet.

Thank you all!


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Castration certainly made my Scout more fearful. He was quite a confident dog beforehand, but became very wary of other dogs/ new situations after.

It took a good 18 months to bring his confidence levels back up, but even now he's not the same. I feel we were pressured into the castration by our (former) vet. I certainly won't be in a hurry to castrate in the future.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Just to be awkward...Freddie became less nervous after he was done.


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## Frenchwood (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks for your points guys.

Blue is in at the vets tomorrow morning for a discussion prior to any op.

His vets (Vets4Pets) franchise has just changed hands, and apparently the new vet is much better versed on alternatives to neutering than the last one, so we'll see how it goes!


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