# Worried about my dogs behaviour since being neutered



## Rubynoodles (Oct 18, 2012)

Archie is just over two years old. He was starting to pee around the house a lot and becoming a little bit snappy with some other dogs, so on my vets advice we had him castrated about 6 weeks ago.

However, I am a little bit worried about his behaviour since then. He had already started to snap and occasionally become quite nasty with dogs we meet on our walks but since the op it has become more frequent, he will sniff a dog and all seems fine then all of a sudden he will growl and snap (something he had never done much before op!), the other day he was positively nasty and went to take a lump out of a golden retrievers neck (luckily I pulled him back in time and he just had fur in his mouth!!), he has also started to growl at the occasional person walking by!

Someone has said that it could be his hormones adjusting which could take a couple of months but I am beginning to worry that we have made a mistake in having him 'done'.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Has your dog had a full examination to make sure that there is no other cause for his aggression? It may be that he is unwell, and this is being expressed as dog aggression, and because of his age the vet has just assumed that his hormones are the problem. You are right that it will take a few weeks for the testosterone to leave his system, however.

I've always had my male dogs castrated, and none of them have been aggressive. I have heard of dogs' natures changing after neutering, but all the stories I have heard have been about bitches (not to say it might not happen to dogs, though).


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Rubynoodles said:


> Archie is just over two years old. He was starting to pee around the house a lot and becoming a little bit snappy with some other dogs, so on my vets advice we had him castrated about 6 weeks ago.
> 
> However, I am a little bit worried about his behaviour since then. He had already started to snap and occasionally become quite nasty with dogs we meet on our walks but since the op it has become more frequent, he will sniff a dog and all seems fine then all of a sudden he will growl and snap (something he had never done much before op!), the other day he was positively nasty and went to take a lump out of a golden retrievers neck (luckily I pulled him back in time and he just had fur in his mouth!!), he has also started to growl at the occasional person walking by!
> 
> Someone has said that it could be his hormones adjusting which could take a couple of months but I am beginning to worry that we have made a mistake in having him 'done'.


Obviously can only make suggestions as to possible reasons, we cant see him or the situations, so can only base things on what you have said, and own knowledge and experience really but,

It is thought and this includes a lot of behaviourists too, that if a dog is naturally less confident, anxious or fearful by nature, then neutering can actually make it worse because taking away the testosterone which should give them a certain amount of confidence or help will make them worse still if it is a anxiety/fear problem.

A lot of what seems outright aggression to other dogs and even people can be more out of defence then actual aggression to be nasty or start fights. 
You often see it on lead quite a bit more, when stuck on a lead with no option to flee, give themselves space, have the time to read and exibit their own body language then feeling disadvantaged they will often result to growling, lunging or snapping usually without contact unless pushed more, to make the dog go away. You then remove them, the owner removes the other dog, or the dog does back off, so its worked so they repeat it again if feeling unsure and in a similar situation.

Some dogs sometimes certain breeds more so, can when they get to full adolescence and sexual maturity, start to change behaviour as regards other dogs, sometimes it can be same sexes more, males with other males, females with other females. They may become not so tolerant of same sexes or even a lot of adult dogs as they were, taking up what they see as a challenge or even starting one on occasion. Dogs can sometimes also start to whats called scent marking in the home, leaving their scent, which is usually very small wees, often up things.
Sometimes with sex hormone driven behaviours, like these, neutering can sometimes help but its not always a guarantee even then.
Dogs can start weeing more in frequency and amount too and having accidents due to different medical conditions, so the question would be is it definitely scent marking/behavioural or is it something else.
Dogs can also start to pee and toilet indoors too through things like anxiety and stress too.

Sometimes even something like a bitch in season, living in a house nearby and/or being walked and leaving the in season smell in their pee, can be enough to send some male dogs mad, leading to scent marking, trying to escape, and being aggressive to other dogs. Ive know ones not eat even it happened to one of mine, nothing wrong with him physically I got him checked out.

Other causes of changes in behaviour can also be medical, discomfort, pain, feeling generally unwell, certain illnesses especially endocrine, can also cause changes in behaviour too. So any really bad or extreme changes in behaviour should be checked out with an examination, including an orthopaedic one, if you really want to be through, because some you cant see just by looking and physical exam, you can do blood tests, urine tests, which will check for general health and things like organ function. There also separate tests like thyroid panel blood tests. Thyroid hormone deficiency can alter behaviour as well as cause various physical problems, that is a separate test and often worth doing too, especially as there is an auto immune cause, that often makes an appearance under 3 years of age, and has genetic implications.
There is more on the subject below, the one that mentions seizures which it can also cause in some dogs, is about other types of behaviour too.

Behavioral changes associated with thyroid dysfunction in dogs.

Are your dogs seizures caused by Canine Epilepsy or Autoimmune Thyroiditis?

Clinical Signs of Canine Hypothyroidism

As said we can only offer suggestions as to why it might be happening and possible causes. If dogs start a behaviour though, and are allowed to carry on and practice it, it doesn't get better usually. As you can see too, the causes can be varied, and neutering isn't always the answer, depends on the cause a lot of the time. The cause too, effects how you need to rectify the problem or modify they unwanted behaviour too.

If your concerned then your best bet may be to speak to a behaviourist. If you do this route try and speak to a few, who not only have qualifications but also experience and proven successes. That way they can assess him and the situations and then give you a tailor made plan to get him back on the right track.

CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers is one organisation where you should find ones in your area.

If you are not in an immediate financial position to get one on board then there are some simple exercises that can often help in the situations you are having problems, so just say.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

At 2 years old he could be an adolescent flexing his muscles so to speak.

I would get him checked out with a vet to ensure there is no underlying health problems. Then if he is okay I would take him for training and socialising classes. It can be something as simply as you getting up tight because he has reacted a couple of times and your anxiety is being transmitted down the lead, causing him to react.

I use high value treats (my dog will do anything for a small piece of cheese). I had my dog stand by my side when the other dog and owner passed, if he didn't react he got a piece of cheese. This was in conjunction with formal training at our local dog club.

As Sled dog Hotel has suggested your dog's problem could be totally different.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

Whatever was causing him to become 'snappy with other dogs' is very unlikely to be an issue that would have been solved through neutering anyway. In fact it is unlikely that his behaviour will have been affected by any change in hormone levels yet anyway as it can take 6 weeks to 2 months for neutering to take effect, so what you may be seeing is likely to be a natural escalation of the behaviour. To this end I would suggest a visit from a behaviourist to observe and assess.

Neutering can help with marking. Though again this is a complex issue and as he had just started to pee around the house I would be looking at other issues that may have caused this ..as it is often insecurity that leads to excess marking which in turn is more likely to be an explanation for his 'snappiness'.

J


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## Rubynoodles (Oct 18, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your great advice.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

sskmick said:


> At 2 years old, he could be an adolescent flexing his muscles, so to speak.
> 
> ...


Sorry, i can't agree. 
Dogs' size has strong influence on how quickly they mature - not merely physically.

2-YO is social maturity in most dogs - by 'most', i mean dogs who are over 20# or so, & up to about 120#.

Toy-breeds, those 20# & under, are physically mature [all bones calcified] by 12-MO, & 'social adulthood'
occurs around the same time, generally between 12 & at most, 15-MO.

Medium- to large-breeds / mixes, as above, are social adults at 2-YO.

Giant breeds are latest; they are social-adults at 3-YO, but slow as they are to become grown-ups,
giants are sadly speedy to age; by 7, they are senior-citizens, & by 9, they are elderly indeed.

Unless the dog was a true giant - 125# & up - i'd consider her or him to be a social adult at 2-YO, not a teen.

Teenhood is post-puberty [over 6-MO, across the board - all sizes, both genders], & in most dogs - that
large collection of over-20# to 120# - only lasts till perhaps 12-MO. Adolescence in dogs is brief.

So i'd never refer to a 2-YO as 'testing her or his limits', unless the dog was a Berner, Newfie, etc, & between
2-YO & 3-YO - in which case, i wouldn't think of it as 'teenhood', but social adulthood, when the young adult
tests to see if U mean it when U cue a behavior, or tell them they can't have / do / get X.

A 3-YO Berner belonging to a client was a case in point; he'd begun ignoring recalls, for the 1st time in his
very compliant life, but it was just a stage; tightening up on Mgmt & practicing recalls soon had him gladly
returning when called, once more, & some additional proofing made it better than 85% reliable. IOW, barring
a truly potent distraction, if he was called, he came to his owners.
.
.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> Whatever was causing him to become 'snappy with other dogs' is very unlikely to be an issue that would
> have been solved through neutering anyway. In fact it is unlikely that his behaviour will have been affected
> by any change in hormone levels yet... *as it can take 6 weeks to 2 months for neutering to take effect*,
> so what you may be seeing is likely to be a natural escalation of the behaviour.
> ...


Sorry, James.  i usually agree with U, but this time, I disagree on 2 points -
desex helps reduce male aggro across the board, in every area from M:M reactivity to likelihood of bites
to humans, dog-fights, etc; the odds for all, drop after desex.

2ndly, the drop in testosterone production is virtually immediate.
NOT reproductive sterility! - there are still sperm present, which were produced before desex.
But the testes are the primary source of testosterone, & it drops rapidly once the gonads are gone.
The 2nd minor source of androgens, in both M & F mammals, are the adrenal glands above the kidneys;
these continue to produce testosterone & other androgens post-desex, but the quantity is much, much less.

M & F mammals both have circulating androgens & estrogens; the difference is the RATIO of each, Ms having
much more androgens, especially testosterone, & Fs having much more estrogens; post-spay, Fs have
lost their primary estrogen sources, the ovaries, but retain their 2ndary sources, adrenal glands & pituitary.
Post-spay Fs thus have a much-lower amount of estrogens, & a HIGHER ratio of androgens to estrogens,
while post-desex Ms are opposite: much lower androgens, higher ratio of estrogens to remaining androgens.

Of course, getting a behaviorist [with academic chops] to evaluate the dog would be a wonderful idea;
a CAAB, vet behaviorist, COAPE member, or for a less-costly option, an APDT-uk trainer with specific experience
in dog-directed aggression issues - they do exist. :yesnod:

If the OP would post their area [city, county, whatever], we may be able to refer to nearby reliable help.
A good referral can be worth its weight in gold.


Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> *Neutering can help with marking*. Though again this is a complex issue and as he had just started to pee around
> the house, I'd... look... at other [possible causes]... often insecurity... leads to excess marking, which in turn
> is more likely to be an explanation for his 'snappiness'.
> 
> J


Actually, desex can help reduce marking very significantly.
In 1 study, all dogs had a long-term history of marking indoors; post-desex, *90% stopped marking with no
other intervention - no B-Mod, no confinement to a dog-proof area, no crating, nada.* That's pretty good. 
The other 10% saw their marking reduced, but not stopped; they needed additional help to quit.

It's not that neutered dogs CANNOT mark; of course they can, they just don't have the intense urge to do so
that an intact-M may have, particularly if prompted by estrous odors wafting around, the SIGHT of another M
lifting *his* leg, & so on. Scents, sights, other M dogs' presence or odors, can all prompt marking in intact Ms
[& are less likely to prompt marking in desexed Ms].

Changes in the household can also cause marking:
a new infant, new housemate, visitors with the scent of other dogs on them, visiting DOGS, new pets of another
species [cat, ferret, ____ ] can all prompt marking behavior; basically, anything that's an incursion on home
territory can prompt indoor marking. A new boyfriend, a sexual partner who stays overnite, ______ .

the OP didn't mention any household changes, nor any observed triggers for marking [another dog outside
the house lifting his leg on a shrub by the curb, visible from their window - or similar].
.
.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

sskmick said:


> ...
> 
> I'd get him *checked out with a vet* to ensure there are no underlying health problems. Then if he's okay,
> I'd take him for training and socialising classes. It can be something as simply as you getting uptight because
> ...


CLICK! --- Excellent advice! - rep for U.

As S-D-H suggested, i'd get a full thyroid panel; hypothyroid is very common in dogs, & specifically high-risk
in certain breeds [27 to 30 breeds are high likelihood, plus their mixes]. I didn't see any mention of his breed -
Nordics are among the types with many hypothyroid dogs, but so are lots of other breeds [Poodles, Boxers, etc].

At 2-YO, he's hit prime-age for hypothyroid issues to bloom. 

A full thyroid panel runs about $85 to $100, USA-dollars, here; it's 5 or 6 tests on a blood sample,
free AND bound forms of T3 & T4 [that's 4 tests], TSH / thyroid-stimulating hormone, AND possibly ANA - 
Anti-nuclear antibody.

Don't let the vet try to persuade U to "save money" by skipping tests; free & bound are floor & ceiling,
& the measure needed is the one between the 2, in both cases. Don't get one & not the other.

Also, don't be persuaded that the locum vet, or the local hospital, or anyone else can cheaply give U a good
quick-result analysis; ain't so. U are only going to do this once, so make it a priority to get excellent analysis:
send the specimen to one of 2 USA vet-labs, either Univ of Michigan, with the world's largest database of breed-
specific normal ranges for thyroid values, or Dodds' HemoPet labs; Dr Dodds has specialized in bloodborne
& auto-immune diseases in dogs for over 25-years, & thyroid is often an autoimmune disorder.

these labs get specimens from all over the world; they will provide excellent analysis, well worth the extra
cost of shipping the blood to them. If the results come back "borderline low", be prepared to discuss a short-term
trial with low-dose thyroid supplement with Ur vet; if his behavior IMPROVES on the supplement, that is good rea-
son to keep him on it for life. Long before the physical symptoms of hypothyroid show, irritability is an early
behavioral symptom of low thyroid, & once the dose is properly adjusted, the medication is very cheap.
Thank Goddess for small favors, eh? 

If he's well within normal ranges for his breed or mix, it's time to make an appt with a humane trainer,
not one who spouts pack-theory & puts choke-chains or prongs or shock-collars on the dog!, but who will
make a B-Mod protocol for U to follow that involves DS/CC, DeSensitization & Counter-Conditioning to other dogs,
pairing good things reliably with the presence of other dogs AT * A * DISTANCE under his threshold, & slowly
decreasing the distance between him & other dogs as his behavior improves, he relaxes & anticipates good things,
& his coping skills get better.

Again, if the OP posts their general location [city, shire, county...], we may be able to suggest specific persons.
:yesnod:
.
.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Rubynoodles said:


> ... I am beginning to worry that we've made a mistake in having him 'done'.


That much i can assure U, U have not made a mistake.

There are many reasons to desex dogs, not least because it's a way of reducing aggression [in males - for bitches,
aggro is mostly reduced post-spay toward other Fs, especially as a spayed F doesn't enter estrus - the main
trigger for F:F aggro being estrus in one or the other F].

Then there's the reduced likelihood of marking, which drops markedly in neutered Ms; fighting, roaming,
leg-lifting indoors, M:M posturing & reactivity, all drop after neutering, as they are all hormonally fueled,
male-specific behaviors. Bitches will roam or escape WHEN in estrus - but not typically otherwise, unless
she's escaping for other reasons [chasing game, chasing bicyclists, garbage-hunting in ppl's trashcans, ___ ].

In Ms, desex also protects from hypertrophy of the prostate, which can cause all sorts of problems from leaky
urine [dribbling] to an inability or difficulty passing urine thru the compressed ureter, AND protects Ms from anal
fistulas, which are incredibly painful & very difficult to treat.

So U haven't done him an injury; U've done him several favors. :001_smile:

As his aggro is continuing, obviously this needs to be addressed; a thyroid panel will tell U whether it may
be a hormonal / metabolic issue, which is thankfully easy to resolve & not expensive.

If it's NOT hypothyroid, nor is it pain or other problems causing him to be intolerant or cranky, then U need
help from a behaviorist with academic credentials, or from a trainer with experience in dealing with aggro,
who is a member of a professional organization that doesn't allow aversive tools or coercive methods [flooding,
confrontation, roll & pin the dog, harsh handling, choke chains or infinite-slip nylon collars that close the dog's
airway, prong collars that poke, shock collars, throw-chains, spray bottles, yadda-yadda].

A vet-behaviorist is the top of the line option; they are few, but very very highly regarded specialists.
CAABs [certified applied animal behaviorists] are the next tier down; very good, highly qualified pros.
Next would be a canine-behavior consultant certified by the IAABC or other certifying bodies, such as APBC
or COAPE; & finally, a trainer who's a member of APDT-uk would probably be least cost & most accessible, as
there are more of them than the others, numerically.

If U decide on an APDT-uk member, be sure they list AGGRESSION as a specialty - don't choose someone
simply because they are nearby, if all they list are puppy training & basic manners; they can't help U with
something of this nature.

U can also opt for "D", other:
buy a copy of _'Click to Calm'_ & use it, as it's an excellent DIY manual for problem behaviors.
there are very clear, very safe, step by step protocols listed by 'symptom' / presenting complaint; U just
follow the directions as laid out. Keep a log, so U know how he's progressing, & don't try to hurry - do it at his
speed, as he gets better. Don't overface him, keep him under threshold. If he's in a situation he can't cope
with, just leave - immediately.

Over-the-counter *calmatives* can be a huge help, too - see post #22 of the sticky on *dog body-language*
for What, How, When, etc; very safe, no risk of interactions or overdose, very helpful, not expensive.

Calmatives make B-mod much easier by supporting the dogs, emotionally, & helping them relax.
.
.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

leashedForLife said:


> desex helps reduce male aggro across the board, in every area from M:M reactivity to likelihood of bites
> to humans, dog-fights, etc; the odds for all, drop after desex.
> .


I do agree that studies show that Testosterone can indeed fuel aggression and/or certain reactivity, however my concern was that the behavioural issues as described by the op may not immediately be solved by neutering as these behaviours are already established (and that therefore some behaviour modification will be needed). I would also prefer to know if there has been a trigger.

I take on board your other points L4L. Interesting posts as always.

OP If the behaviour is continuing I think the best advice is to get some professional advice so that you can help your dog through this stage in his life.

J


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