# Morning Suprise



## DaleHay (Feb 6, 2009)

Hey!

Well I got woken up this morning by my Mother asking me if I had gave the rabbit something fluffy last night as her cage (she's an indoor one) was full of soft white fur. I was like "No... why?", then immediately she said "Oh god... look! Babies!". Obviously a shock that there was a couple of babies underneath her and then another two came out while we were watching... 

Some things though...

1) I didn't know she was pregnant...

2) What do I do (i.e; in relation to food, warmth, etc..)

3) What happens if one dies? Do I remove it as I don't really wanna put my hand in and disrupt her "territory of fur".

4) Ain't it weird seeing baby rabbits ... new born ... my cat is very interested aswell... she's kinda turning maternal. He he.

(P.S. Hello all)


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## tinamary (Aug 17, 2008)

Hello and welcome to motherhood. Worrying is part of it im afraid.
Try not to touch them for a few days if you can help it but if you need to remove a dead baby you will have to do that.
Keep the cat away if possible as this can upset the mother.

I love babies they are so sweet.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Sorry absolutley zip experience with rabbits and their babies but wanted to wish you lots of luck, i think you will need it...
Cant wait to see piccys when they are bigger, please keep us updated and welcome to the forum...you have come to the right place for all the help, support and guidance you will need... xxx


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## DaleHay (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks for the prompt reply *tinamary*. 

I won't be touching the little ones till probably Monday morning or something... as for the cat, I have started keeping her away but every now and then she goes and pokes her nose in the cage. The rabbit doesn't seem distressed in anyway, but on the safe side I'll keep them apart. 

I would try and get a picture (with flash off) but they're covered at the moment. She ("Snowflake" [the rabbit]) is supposed to be lieing on top of them keep them warm, yeah? She's also put some in bedding too.


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

First of all - have you removed Dad?? Female buns can become pregnant straight away!

Are you keeping all the babies?

And...dont forget to post some pics when you have some :thumbup:

Good luck


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## DaleHay (Feb 6, 2009)

Aud's_Mum said:


> First of all - have you removed Dad?? Female buns can become pregnant straight away!
> 
> Are you keeping all the babies?
> 
> ...


The dad (her brother, he he) is still with my mate as it was her that I got Snowflake off. It's weird that non of us two even knew she was pregnant.

Well depending on what sex they are, will depend on if we get rid of any. I prefer female pets so any females and I'll be keeping them, then my mate who I got Snowflake off is wanting a male - if there is any. How long is it till I find out?

Also I took a picture 2 hours ago of it. It's in this thread.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi,

Oh best of luck with them. I bred rabbits for 10 years lol. 
Main bits of advice, try and leave her to look after the babies herself, a mother rabbit will get spooked and could either abandon or kill her youngsters.
Definitely take dad out because she will not like his interference either. Usually they start opening their eyes at around 10 days and out of the nest by about 3 weeks.

Feed her her usual foods but I always gave a bit of extra carrot and plenty of hay. I hope it goes really smoothy for you.

Izzie


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## penny2607 (Aug 31, 2008)

I would suggest before touching the little ones give mom a good fuss first so her scent is on your hands... if you make the kits smell of anything but her she may well attack them. With my bun - a complete surprise also - she just took care of them herself, we didn't intervene at all, so fingers crossed she susses what to do


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

penny2607 said:


> I would suggest before touching the little ones give mom a good fuss first so her scent is on your hands... if you make the kits smell of anything but her she may well attack them. With my bun - a complete surprise also - she just took care of them herself, we didn't intervene at all, so fingers crossed she susses what to do


Good point Penny!

Izzie


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

fingers crossed they will be ok, keep us posted,xxx


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

DaleHay said:


> The dad (her brother, he he) is still with my mate as it was her that I got Snowflake off. It's weird that non of us two even knew she was pregnant.
> 
> Well depending on what sex they are, will depend on if we get rid of any. I prefer female pets so any females and I'll be keeping them, then my mate who I got Snowflake off is wanting a male - if there is any. How long is it till I find out?
> 
> Also I took a picture 2 hours ago of it. It's in this thread.


Her brother?? oh thats not good at all 

If you do decide to rehome some please think carefully about the homes they are going to - many people like to stick rabbits in a hutch at the bottom of the garden, or give them to kids that soon get bored.

This is a good site for rehoming:
Rabbit Rehome - Adopt an unwanted bunny from a rescue centre

Will you be spaying snowflake?


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## catty (Feb 6, 2009)

If your mate wants a male rabbit to keep the other one company they will probably fight unless they are both neutered (and even then there is no guarantee). I had two female rabbits that had lived together since birth and started fighting at about age 1. I had them both spayed and one died in the operation and now my remaining female is bonded with a male and they get on really well. Females can get very territorial sometimes with each other. The babies shouldn't be separated from their mother until they are 10 weeks old. Good luck!


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## DaleHay (Feb 6, 2009)

Aud's_Mum said:


> Will you be spaying snowflake?


I think I will get her spay'd after the little ones are fine and able to do stuff for themselves.


catty said:


> If your mate wants a male rabbit to keep the other one company they will probably fight unless they are both neutered (and even then there is no guarantee). I had two female rabbits that had lived together since birth and started fighting at about age 1. I had them both spayed and one died in the operation and now my remaining female is bonded with a male and they get on really well. Females can get very territorial sometimes with each other. The babies shouldn't be separated from their mother until they are 10 weeks old. Good luck!


Well she has two seperate cages, so there shouldn't be any problems there. Also when she lets them out, she does it one at a time, so no conflict can occur. 

---------------------------
*=-= UPDATE =-=*
We ended up finding out that Snowflake has gave birth to *5* (not 4 as previously thought) rabbits. However only 2 are surviving. Snowflake did start eating one of the others last night (while my Mom was eating her dinner - she said all she could here was the bones crunching!). However she removed the dead ones yesterday (with some old tong things from the barbeque) and snowflake seems to be doing fine with the current two ("Speedy" and "Nee"). We've also put a towel over the cage, so she's in the dark and she feels happier with that.


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## penny2607 (Aug 31, 2008)

I would also suggest that once the little ones are fluff balls and jumping round happily I'd get all 3 down to the vets just for a check over.

My surprise didn't end very happily, the mom lived to wean her babies off her but then died once they were old enough. It was like she litterally held on for them. The babies lived quite happily until they were both a few months old then both of them had problems, the vet said it was just one of those things.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

I hope these babies dont have any genetic problems  this is awful and i really dont understand how anyone can let it happen.

Good Luck.


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## toddy (Jan 24, 2009)

I am glad you think it is funny that her brother is the father of her babies.
When you have seen the devestating deformities that can be caused by inbreeding you wouldn't find it so funny.
If you continue to let your cat poke her nose in the hutch you will be lucky if the mum doesn't kill the rest of her babies.
I guess if it was the brother that got her pregnant that the poor thing is only young too.
I wish your rabbit luck having an owner like you she is going to need it


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## DaleHay (Feb 6, 2009)

OK, so an update so far... there is only one rabbit left as she's decided to kill and eat "Nee" ... so there is just one left, but she seems to be loving this one and we still have a towel over the top of the cage - to kinda simulate a "burrow" type of condition. She's been fed her normal food (and no longer charging when we drop fresh hay into the far end of the cage). She is looking a lot better and still enjoying her fruit/treat bar that we've gave her and her flavoured wooden block thing that we got from the pet shop. Hopefully this one doesn't die.

He (or her) ("Speedy") is doing well ... he is still wriggling around like a mobile phone on vibrate ... and has a right podgey belly but a small-ish head. Speedy's eyes are still not open yet... though they're due to open in about a week as it's now been 5 days. His ears are still tiny and it looks more like a shaven puppy-dog ... he he. I'll try and get another picture later on, as when we reveal snowflake - to change her food or add more hay - she seems to go over to where Speedy is covered with her ripped-out fur and uses her nose to show him. Then when we cover her back up she covers him back up.

However everything is going fully fine with the last one.


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## blackjack11 (Dec 27, 2008)

Bet that was a shock.


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## toddy (Jan 24, 2009)

You should not be taking pictures of the baby.Just leave mum quiet with it and only just feed her.
She will only kill babies if she is stressed out and at 5 days old you are not out of the danger zone.
So how old is mum??


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Could the mother have eaten most of the babies because they were inbred? 

I can't believe anyone would be so irresponsible as to keep a male and female RABBIT (and we all know what they say about rabbits, don't we?) together, who were obviously not spayed or neutred.

Please do not let your friend have this baby if it survives, and for heaven's sake, keep your cat away!

I hope this poor little baby doesn't have any deformities, i'm sure you wouldn't be laughing if you were inbred.

When you take them to the vet, please mention that the mother's brother is also the father, as he may be able to do some tests to determine wether it has any genetic conditions.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Also, please have this baby neutred once it's old enough, so that it isn't bred from. And also, have your female spayed too, to stop accidents like this happening again!

I don't know a lot about breeding/genetics, but if you breed from your baby, you could be at risk of bringing out any genetic deformities it could be carrying from being inbred, and that would be extremely unfair on any animal to have to live with, just because of the irresponsiblilty of some humans!


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## VampiricLust (Mar 3, 2008)

DaleHay said:


> The dad (her brother, he he) is still with my mate as it was her that I got Snowflake off. It's weird that non of us two even knew she was pregnant.
> 
> *Well depending on what sex they are, will depend on if we get rid of any. I prefer female pets so any females and I'll be keeping them, then my mate who I got Snowflake off is wanting a male *- if there is any. How long is it till I find out?
> 
> Also I took a picture 2 hours ago of it. It's in this thread.


Can i just say, i find this attitude disgusting.
"getting rid"
They are alive, not an unwanted gift voucher.

The reason Does kill their young is if there is something wrong with them.
Most likely, as they were inbred, they had deformities.
Do not let your friend have this one. 
Rabbits thrive on company and *should NOT be kept alone.*
As soon as this baby is weaned at 8 weeks (if it survives) get her speyed.
Female rabbits over the age of 3 years that are not speyed have an 85% chance of uterine cancer.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Good post, Vamp 

I think this whole situation is awful, those poor baby rabbits. They may only have had a very short lifespan, but i'm sure that during the days/hours they were alive, they were suffering from whatever awful defects they would have had.

In a way, i'm glad they did die, at least they haven't had to live a long life of suffering.

Some people are so, so incompetent. I don't see why they should be allowed to own animals sometimes.

If this baby survives, i'd probably take it to rescue, along with it's mother. At least then they'll be with knowledgeable people who will be able to find excellent, loving homes for the bunnies.

ooh, and Vamp, I love Shadow in your sig, what a gorgeous bunny


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## VampiricLust (Mar 3, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> Good post, Vamp
> 
> I think this whole situation is awful, those poor baby rabbits. They may only have had a very short lifespan, but i'm sure that during the days/hours they were alive, they were suffering from whatever awful defects they would have had.
> 
> ...


Ditto, im glad they passed away, better than coming into this throwaway attitude society has towards rabbits!

Thank you 
Shadow is a bunny who is gorgeous and knows it!!
She is a proper little Princess! My rabbits are in pairs and soon to be bonded into a 4, to have their own 8ft x 6ft shed with 8ft x 6ft attached aviary.
Living the life a bun should do. They are all spayed 
Unfortunately, its people like me that have to mop up the mess that is peoples "accidents" with buns


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

VampiricLust said:


> Ditto, im glad they passed away, better than coming into this throwaway attitude society has towards rabbits!
> 
> Thank you
> Shadow is a bunny who is gorgeous and knows it!!
> ...


Thank god the world has people like you! There's so many unwanted bunnies. I'd love one myself, but I know I just don't have the time to spend with one, so i'll just have to admire them from afar 

We have quite a few rabbits at college, and I get to spend time with them pretty much every week, so they're the closest I have. My favourite is a Chinchilla Rex rabbit, we have a Castor rex too, and we were hoping to breed them (we'd keep one baby at college and the students/teachers would snap them up in no time, we're a bunch of Animal Management students, so we're all animal mad ) We kept Rocko and Rizzo together for a while, but Rizzo, the castor girl, just wasn't interested in Rocko, the chinchilla boy 

I've just had a look on your website, you've got a lot at the mo  hope they all find good homes soon 

I bet around this time of year, rescues start getting especially busy, with all the unwanted kid's christmas presents. They loose interest so quickly, i'd never buy a rabbit for a child.


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## VampiricLust (Mar 3, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> Thank god the world has people like you! There's so many unwanted bunnies. I'd love one myself, but I know I just don't have the time to spend with one, so i'll just have to admire them from afar
> 
> We have quite a few rabbits at college, and I get to spend time with them pretty much every week, so they're the closest I have. My favourite is a Chinchilla Rex rabbit, we have a Castor rex too, and we were hoping to breed them (we'd keep one baby at college and the students/teachers would snap them up in no time, we're a bunch of Animal Management students, so we're all animal mad ) We kept Rocko and Rizzo together for a while, but Rizzo, the castor girl, just wasn't interested in Rocko, the chinchilla boy
> 
> ...


Theres 7 more still to be added to the website!!

Do you know 4 generations back in each bun? 
If not i'd say don't, defects and recessive genes could still hit the litter 
There are 35,000 rabbits per year dumped in rescues up and down the UK so i find it a shame people breed more when there isn't enough homes for the current numbers 
I currently have 7 on a waiting list as well, which isn't much, but the number will go through the roof after Easter 

Im afraid with most people its a case of - :mad2:
They never learn 

Shadow is a seal pointed lionhead
Storm a standard Chinchilla
And Moonshine and Scraggles are lionhead X dutch
None of them are from breeders, and i may be adopting some buns from another rescue to bond with my 4  So ill have my own little group :

ETA: i see you are at myerscough!
I did a course up there!!
First diploma i think.
Do you know Lol?


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

I'm not going to say much because i think theres a huge risk of me losing my temper, people like this that treat animals like toys should be banned from keeping them, absolutely digraceful, you should be ashamed. :mad5:


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## penny2607 (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm a little disappointed that the original poster took time to come on here and ask advice and then doesn't appear to have taken it... it you had left the poor mother alone you may have prevented her from killing her poor babies, and why was there a cat around???????


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## charlotte-missy (Feb 12, 2009)

when babies are born leave her to it just feed and water she dont want you picking around them you should of made that cat go away to another room close the door or something 
people go around taking picture at 1 day old babies please dont do that you mite up set mummy 
you think that if them babies lived what ever happend to them down the line you would be the blame you bred mummy your making more poor things life hell 
there are so many out there you cant save them all but you can help by not making more! 

i got a pet rat for my 16th birthday she had 11 babies one died and i set him or her to rest in the garden i got my little girl rat at 7 weeks old few weeks later i had a shock of my life! when i phone the pet shop they said sorry one boy was found in with the girls we can happy take the babies from you when babies were 8 weeks i went to that shop where they sold reptiles and other pets they had lots of rats i still have some of these babies now older they are a good year now had some vet bills but i no that was coming! nothing to worrie about. it broke my heart giving some up i dont have a clue where they have gone have babies of there own healthy happy a pet is for life ven if its a rat or rabbit please dont let it happen again dont breed for there health not yours 

ps dont take what i put the wrong way i was trying to help sorry for the spelling


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## AlexT (Jan 16, 2009)

Dont touch them at all not next monday just leave them till they start moving because the mother often rejects them if some one elses smell gets on them unless she has rejected them or one has died just view from a distance feed like normal don't clean her cage till they are moving she will pull fur out to keep them warm this is normal other then that feed her and give her water as usual don't pet her to be on the safe side as they can get protective, hope my advice is ok im not a expert but thats what experiance i have from people i know who have had bunnies


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

VampiricLust said:


> Theres 7 more still to be added to the website!!
> 
> Do you know 4 generations back in each bun?
> If not i'd say don't, defects and recessive genes could still hit the litter
> ...


Hmm, i'm not sure whether we know the generations of the Rex's or not, i'm not sure where they came from as they got them before I started. I dunno if we are breeding them now, but I can ask my tutors a bit more about them.

Which site did you go to? I'm at Witton Park in Blackburn, it's an actual barn :lol: nothing like the big fancy main centre, we don't even have indoor toilets :lol: :lol:

Hmm, although it's lovely that you take in all these rabbits, it's such a shame that they have to go into rescue in the first place. If people (mainly parents) would realise just how much time needs to go into caring a rabbit, maybe they wouldn't buy them for children, and they wouldn't end up homeless 



penny2607 said:


> I'm a little disappointed that the original poster took time to come on here and ask advice and then doesn't appear to have taken it


maybe we scared her off


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> Hmm, i'm not sure whether we know the generations of the Rex's or not, i'm not sure where they came from as they got them before I started. I dunno if we are breeding them now, but I can ask my tutors a bit more about them.
> 
> Which site did you go to? I'm at Witton Park in Blackburn, it's an actual barn :lol: nothing like the big fancy main centre, we don't even have indoor toilets :lol: :lol:
> 
> ...


If people didnt buy bunnies from pet shops that would solve alot of the problem, also people are so uneducated on how much space and correct handling bunnies need, they're not pets suited to young children and think they are easy to care for and dont bother neutering/vacc them, they end up with a hormonal bun thats frustrated stuck in a little hutch and they either end up with people like vamp that pick up the pieces or back in pets at home labelled 'aggressive and unable to be kept with other rabbits'. Its soooooo frustrating!!!!


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## DaleHay (Feb 6, 2009)

I take it I've caused a bit of fuss within the thread. I must say - firstly - sorry if the way I come across with what I'm explaining sounds bad. However I do care for the rabbit and the little one (as a pet is not just for Christmas). Still no open eyes yet and Snowflake is eating and drinking quite a bit too.

They will both get spay'd once the maternal period is over.

When would be wise to clean out the cage (as it's kinda starting to hum)? (Would this be once the little one is freely moving around)


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## DaleHay (Feb 6, 2009)

He is walking around a lot more now... his ears are slowly forming (well they have a point at the tip now and away from the head) also his eyes are open.  He looks so sweet...


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## toddy (Jan 24, 2009)

Dalehay despite your apology you have still not answered some questions people have asked.
How old is the mum of the baby?
It seems to have gone right over your head what the fuss has actually been about which worries me that you cannot actually see why people have got upset.
If she has littered away from the nest you can clean out carefully the worst of it and put in some fresh bedding but DO NOT disturb the nest in any way.


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## DaleHay (Feb 6, 2009)

toddy said:


> Dalehay despite your apology you have still not answered some questions people have asked.
> How old is the mum of the baby?
> It seems to have gone right over your head what the fuss has actually been about which worries me that you cannot actually see why people have got upset.
> If she has littered away from the nest you can clean out carefully the worst of it and put in some fresh bedding but DO NOT disturb the nest in any way.


The mother is 4 months I believe... my mate did go back to the place where she got it and asked one of the staff there (not [email protected]) and they said that they just put all the rabbits basically together when they're young because they can't find out whats what... not very good in my opinion. Considering she ended up getting told they had to move one of the rabbits out of there because it had gave birth.

She gave birth up the left-hand side of her cage, however the little one ("Speedy") is moving up and down the cage as if he was an adult. But I'm a bit weiry in going to clean the right-hand side of the cage (when Snowflake has been doing her droppings and urinating). Though the right hand side is where I drop some fresh bedding in, which she ends up taking up to the other end.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

DaleHay said:


> The mother is 4 months I believe... my mate did go back to the place where she got it and asked one of the staff there (not [email protected]) and they said that they just put all the rabbits basically together when they're young because they can't find out whats what... not very good in my opinion. Considering she ended up getting told they had to move one of the rabbits out of there because it had gave birth.QUOTE]
> 
> That is absolutely disgusting, this is why people should not buy from pet shops!! Can you pm me where this petshop is please.
> 
> ...


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## penny2607 (Aug 31, 2008)

OMG , at 4 months old your lucky that mom is still alive. A female rabbit ideally should not have a litter until she is at least one!

As soon as the baby is fit and doing well get them both to the vet...

How is mom looking, does she seem happy in herself?


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## DaleHay (Feb 6, 2009)

penny2607 said:


> OMG , at 4 months old your lucky that mom is still alive. A female rabbit ideally should not have a litter until she is at least one!
> 
> As soon as the baby is fit and doing well get them both to the vet...
> 
> How is mom looking, does she seem happy in herself?


Yeah I'll get them both to the vet as soon as they're all fit and well.

Also the mother is looking fine, happily digging around in her cage and chucking hay from one end to t'other and back again. Also she has a field day with her food bowl too... chucking it here and there. So she is happy and content. 

She is feeding Speedy and cleaning him while she feeds too, which is good.


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## toddy (Jan 24, 2009)

The poor girl.
She is a saint for managing to feed a baby when she is just a baby herself.Sadly having a baby at that age will not have done her any good.She is still growing herself and having young at her age will have a great affect on her growth.
She will need to see a vet when the baby is old enough to check her over and make sure she is not deficient in calcium etc

I would also like the number and name of the pet shop as they need reporting.
It is not difficult to learn to sex any animal and if they cannot sex them then they should not be selling them n the first place.

Please if you do not listen to any other advice given to you please make sure your rabbit is checked over by a vet.You owe her that much at least.


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## AmyPellegrin (Feb 19, 2009)

Just leave the mother rabbit to looking after them. She'll be fine but keep checking on her!


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

is this post for real or is it a wind up?


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## penny2607 (Aug 31, 2008)

umber said:


> is this post for real or is it a wind up?


The fact that the original poster has returned and posted a few times makes me feel that unfortunately it is real...


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## Amyk (Dec 23, 2008)

sorry but i have to say that i think people are being abit harsh on her, the rabbit most probably got pregnant whilst at the pet shop or at her friends so it isnt definatly her fault. plus the fact that the mother was very young may have added to why she killed the babies because she is a inexperenced mother but obviously the stress from other things would of contributed largely. i know this is know excuss but she obviously didnt know how to care for the mum and babies properly but im sure she was doing what she felt was right and the excitement of having new babies was probably too much to stay way from. All i can say is i hope you learn from your mistakes and i hope mum and baby live long and happy lives, i wish you the best of luck.


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