# How many breeders test their queens for cover



## trinamoore (May 9, 2013)

People on here say don't buy a kitten from just anybody go to a good breeder but how many check their cats for feline corona virus so they don't pass it on to their kittens to get feline infectious peritonitis and suffer a horrible death and spread it thought all their cats it is becoming increasingly common in uk cats and fip is now the most common infectious cause of death I among uk cats


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Source for this claim?


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

trinamoore said:


> it is becoming increasingly common in uk cats and fip is now the most common infectious cause of death I among uk cats


I thought FIP was uncommon. Where did you read this?


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## trinamoore (May 9, 2013)

I brought a ragdoll kitten on active in August this year from from a good breeder health checks hcm normal and pkd normal she became ill on Sunday toke her to vets and was told she had fip she had to be put to sleep I rang breeder to tell her and ask to have her mother checked to she if she was a carrier as vet advised lucky she is insured but my poor kitten was so ill in 3days


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## trinamoore (May 9, 2013)

The vet printed this of the Internet for me to read its from the university of Glasgow school of veterinary medicine and it spreads the virus is shed in the faeces and cats are exposed from cat litter trays and can survive for 7 wks in environment


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The vet printed this of the Internet for me to read its from the university of Glasgow school of veterinary medicine and it spreads the virus is shed in the faeces and cats are exposed from cat litter trays and can survive for 7 wks in environment


This is true but I would still like to know the source of your claim that fip is now the most common infectious cause of death I among uk cats. I don't think Glasgow is claiming that FIP is shed in faeces etc. That's FCoV and very few cats with FCoV go on to succumb to FIP.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

My Queen goes to stud - even if I tested all four cats in the house and waited for a zero corona virus titre I would have no way of knowing if the stud also had a negative corona titre, and I have yet to come across a stud advertised as such. As I understand it the corona virus mutates into FIP in a very small percentage of cats. I am very sorry you lost your kitten.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I think your vet was very quick to judge FIP and put your girl to sleep ... FIP can only be diagnosed by post mortem just because your girl came into contact with fcov does not mean its FIP

We had the same with my boy back in Feb at 21 weeks ... Very poorly over a two week period .. He tested positive for fcov with titre level of over 10000 the vet said sorry its FIP ... My girls were also tested and tested positive apart from one of my girls. .. 

My boys was the only one that fell ill... The girls have never shown any illness 

To cut a long story short I didn't listen to my vet and took advice from the forum and research that I had done myself .. He is now 14 months old fit and well and his titre level is now 0 and so are the girls .. 

We tested every three months and keep everything super clean and stress levels to a minimum 

We may never see it again but we might ... It's like the common cold 

One of my girls went to stud this spring and had five kits ... I do worry everytime one of them is looking off colour or has a loose motion .. But on the flip side if these kittens are fcov free I cannot guarantee that they are not going to get fcov or fip once they leave here ... I do my upmost to keep fcov out of my breeding program but I cannot guarantee its not going to get in again .. I simple trip to the vets, show or stud could bring it back in 

I understand how you feel ... I was heartbroken , anger and really didnt know what to do ....


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

I am sorry to hear that you lost you kitten. However as others have said FIP is actually very unusual with only a small percentage of cats which are exposed to the corona virus going on to develop FIP. It is not uncommon for vets to suggest a cat has FIP if they are unable to find an obvious reason for the cats illness. However FIP can only be confirmed by a postmortem which should ideally be performed by a specialist clinic, e.g. Glasgow university. As the corona virus is common place the majority of cats are Likely to show a titre level, but they are unlikely to get FIP. FIP is not spread in faeces the corona virus is.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

You know, I don't know much about these conditions, but going by a number of recent threads I'm starting to wonder if some vets just diagnose FIP in cases where they either don't really know what to diagnose, or (more worryingly) don't want to put the effort in...


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Your right jesthar... If a cat has a titre to fcov it's got to be FIP end of .. In my boys case he had a bad bacterial infection but because he showed very high titre levels they said FIP ...


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

I don't really find routine FCoV-tests useful (neither does any vet I've spoken to) so no, I don't test my cats for FCoV and still, after 10 years of breeding, no cat from me have developed FIP.

We need to remember that FIP is a multifactorial disease. The cat need the genetic predisposition, it has to be infected by the "right" kind of FCoV-strain and it has to be exposed to a stressor.

Only about 5% of all cats that are ever infected with FCoV will actually develop FIP. The most meaningful work you can do isn't to spend your savings on keeping a FCoV free home. The most meaningful work you can do is to NOT breed animals that have produced offspring that develop FIP and to keep your cats in a stress free environment. Keep your cats happy, healthy and loved.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> You know, I don't know much about these conditions, but going by a number of recent threads I'm starting to wonder if some vets just diagnose FIP in cases where they either don't really know what to diagnose, or (more worryingly) don't want to put the effort in...


Sometimes it is FIP however much we don't want it to be. You are however right that there seems to be an increasing trend with vets to diagnose FIP with very little evidence. It's heartbreaking. It's as if all Diane Addie's work has been for nothing. We seem to be returning to the bad old days when we thought we were moving forward.



> Your right jesthar... If a cat has a titre to fcov it's got to be FIP end of .. In my boys case he had a bad bacterial infection but because he showed very high titre levels they said FIP ...


In this particular case there doesn't even seem to have been time for a titre test. We haven't been given details of why this vet could diagnose FIP in a single, initial visit of a cat which had become ill so very quickly. I feel so sorry for the owner and so angry with a vet who is seemingly handing out selective information to back up their own decision.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Yes havoc ... I was thinking the time scale was very short ... I know when we first had tests they took about four days for the results .. If this girl fell ill on Sunday no time had been given to test 

OP. can you give us more details pls


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

This is still going to be very raw. If the OP comes back with more details it will be useful but I'll completely understand if they don't.


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## sharon_gurney (Jan 27, 2010)

ive done so much reading on this subject as one of my boys had a titre count.

the yes the Corona virus is common but FIP is not. If my memory serves me right that at every cat show approx. 80% of the cats there will have the Corona virus but it is certainly not the case that all those cats have or go on to develop FIP.

in an ideal world all cats would be free from the corona virus and as a breeder along with other breeders we try to minimise our cats exposure to it. However after watching at many shows I have decided that trying to beat the spread of the virus must be nigh on impossible as stewards and judges are not able to completely disinfect before handling each and every cat.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> I'm starting to wonder if some vets just diagnose FIP in cases where they either don't really know what to diagnose, or (more worryingly) don't want to put the effort in...


Frightening though the thought is, I know that this has happened on more than one occasion


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It's a double whammy on the misinformation front. Those which are misdiagnosed and put to sleep without proper testing skew the figures and those which are misdiagnosed and survive give rise to people claiming it can be cured even though the cat never had it in the first place.


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## trinamoore (May 9, 2013)

On Sunday she stopped eating I had just my other ragdoll to stud so I thought she was missing her on Tuesday she got diarrhoea she got lethargic and I phoned my vet they said bring her in that night when I took her in her belly was swollen the vet took a sample from her abdomen and said the fluidly looked like fip the wet form and said only a post morgen will tell but said see needs to put to sleep as their is no cure I had to take my other ragdoll today to have a bloodiest to see if she is clear as it can spread through faeces and saliva I am really sad to lose my beautiful kitten and worry about my other cat too I will get her results tomorrow I hope I don't lose her aswell


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Thank you for coming back to us ... I feel your pain I really do ... 

Does sound like wet FIP I hope your vet was right and it was not an infection. 

If your other girl test show positive for fcov , please don't think you have to have her PTS ... If she is fit and well leave be ...


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## trinamoore (May 9, 2013)

Thank you I will the vet wants me to put her to sleep I never slept last night with worry she is fit and healthy and a lovely cat she if it come back negative I have to have her tested every two months and have her kittens aborted and get her sprayed and I can't get another cat for a year I bleached my house from top to bottom I always bleach my cat litter trays every time I clean them they have five between the two of them I house seems so empty and my other cat keeping looking for her the vet scared the living day lights out of me but I have been on the Internet and looked fip up and only 10 o/o of cat get it I was a unlucky one


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Very sorry about your kitten. I don't mean to sound insensitive but you should really consider changing vet.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Sorry if she comes back negative you have to spay ... What a load of rubbish :mad2::mad2:


Even if she does come back positive it may not turn into FIP ... Kittens will be a risk obviously but again they might not get FIP 

I personally think your vet is scaring the living day lights out of you ... 

I would consider a vet change


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Oh my, I'm so sorry she was put to sleep without even being tested. Please do consider switching vets.


Unfortunately FIP can happen to anyone, moggies and pedigrees alike. Don't rush into anything with your other girl.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> if it come back negative I have to have her tested every two months and have her kittens aborted and get her sprayed and I can't get another cat for a year


PLEASE change your vet. This is nothing more than scaremongering of the worst sort. Either the vet is extremely ignorant on this subject or their motives are highly questionable.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

trinamoore said:


> I had to take my other ragdoll today to have a bloodiest to see if she is clear as it can spread through faeces and saliva I am really sad to lose my beautiful kitten and worry about my other cat too I will get her results tomorrow I hope I don't lose her aswell


Just devastating for you Trinamoore, but even if your other ragdoll has a titre and even if it is high please please please don't put her to sleep. The chances are she will remain perfectly healthy. There are forums dedicated to people who have been touched by FIP and there will be lots of helpful advice and support there. There is a yahoo one. I'll try to find the address for you.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Here is one Yahoo! Groups

I also agree with everyone else, get shot of your vet and find a more knowledgeable one.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> but even if your other ragdoll has a titre and even if it is high please please please don't put her to sleep. The chances are she will remain perfectly healthy


If she is FCoV +ve there's a very high chance her titre will reduce to zero over time. If it does you still have a breeding queen with the added bonus of knowing she is probably not genetically susceptible to FIP. This is incredibly important, Pedersen reckons on genetics being 50% of the risk. This vet will therefore be pressuring a breeder into killing a breeding queen with a known genetic 'resistance' (for want of a better term). How counter productive is that? It's madness.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

It's barking mad.. Like havoc said if she does has a positive result you know what you are dealing with ... But it's a positive to come out of a negative ..

I know your world has just fallen apart , mine did and I didnt know which way to turn , am please I took advice from here and others 

Please don't take the first advice given by this vet


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## trinamoore (May 9, 2013)

Waiting for vet to ring I will not put her to sleep she on my pillow at night beside me meats me at the door when I come home and sits on the window still waiting for me to come back home how can I put her to sleep I am going to change my vets I will keep testing till she is clear I have read up on this and it not so bleat as she making out thank you for your support I brought my kitten to show but one day I will get there I am not blaming my breeder and she is gutted for me and been very helpful


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## trinamoore (May 9, 2013)

Great news vets rang Lucy is negative will test again in 3 months time so fingers crossed thank you all


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Excellent news! So pleased for you 

I'd still look to change vets, though - this one seems very trigger happy and quite extreme in their opinions...


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## trinamoore (May 9, 2013)

Thank you yes changing my vets she said will have to check again as can stay in house for 7 wks and not to get her stressed


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

What? You mean she normally goes out then?


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I read it that way first, but I think trinamoore means the virus can hang around in the house for 7 weeks - I hope 
Pleased to hear the good news for your girl 
Em


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

trinamoore said:


> Thank you yes changing my vets she said will have to check again as can stay in house for 7 wks and not to get her stressed


Personally, I wouldn't bother testing your girl again. By then she will hopefully have a young family at foot and it will only stress her and expose the kittens to germs at the vets. Instead just clean the house regularly with something like Anigene or Bleach and keep her litter tray spotless as this will help clear any virus hanging about quickly.

Glad to hear your giving this vet the heave-ho


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Trinamoore, can you just clarify if the kitten which was pts has confirmed a +ve titre.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Super news ... Phew 

Personally I would not test again until your kittens have left for new homes and she has settle down 

Really pleased for you


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## trinamoore (May 9, 2013)

Yes I mean lasts in house for 7 wks she only go in cat run when I am at home as I work part time i don't know levels in my kitten as was not tested as vet said fip and pls straight away as never heard of this I went with the vet as trusted her I thought you trust a vet she want to test Lucy again when she had kittens and test them as we'll I clean my cat litter tray out all the time with bleach as I do my own toilet I don't like a dirty house I look after my pets like I look after my children not saying people are saying I am dirty I will try every thing to stop this happening again thank you for all your advice I love the pet forum for advice as you learn something every day I brought this kitten to show and was looking forward to meeting other breeders at shows but was not to be but when I get another show girl I will be showing and will go to shows to look till then


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> i don't know levels in my kitten


You have no proof there was ever FCoV in your household then. Knowing that and with your -ve test for your girl I'm not sure why you should test again at all.


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