# Don't Blame the Dog



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

New program on BBC
BBC Three - Don't Blame the Dog

Just seen a trailer for this - it looks pretty full on.

"Young dog owners with bad attitudes spend a week living with people who depend on dogs - some for their survival in extreme environments around the world, and others who depend on them for their jobs"

fingers crossed it's about rewards based training not like previous dog training shows.


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## tiggerthumper (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm looking forward to this, I think, or at least am hoping, it is based on positive methods, they'd be nuts if they were to present anything else after the uproar with your man on the one show!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

tiggerthumper said:


> I'm looking forward to this, I think, or at least am hoping, it is based on positive methods, they'd be nuts if they were to present anything else after the uproar with your man on the one show!


True 

I like the way it's been promoted as bad owners not bad dogs


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## tiggerthumper (Apr 22, 2011)

Yeah I liked that too! I really hope I'll learn something as I'm really a rubbish dog trainer  as much as I try Prince can outsmart me in the end :001_rolleyes: so I'm looking a few tips


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Hmmm i'm not sure i'm going to love this. 

The South African guy in the " don't blame the dog teaser" clip spouts
" You are going to be the pack leader, you are going to be the dog's boss."

I fear I maybe watching from behind a cushion.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

So people who can't control their dogs get flown around the world (no doubt at the licence payer's expense). They're getting rewarded for their failure to start with! 
I'm all for the idea of putting them with working dogs, and dogs that people depend on - but there are plenty of herding dogs and service dogs here in the UK. They could also have been paired up with search and rescue dogs in the mountains too.

And that pack leader, show them who's boss stuff....
I don't hold out much hope.


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## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

Think I'll watch this on catch up soon as Fright Night's finished.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Who else is watching this? BBC 3 now.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm watching and I am SO angry!!


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

LexiLou2 said:


> I'm watching and I am SO angry!!


The stereo-typical Staffie Owner.. 
let's watch for a few more minutes.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

northnsouth said:


> The stereo-typical Staffie Owner..
> let's watch for a few more minutes.


Yep it people liek him that give my girly a bad name! I'm intrigued to see what they do with them but that lad made me mad.....and diamontes on your dogs claws....seriously?!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

That **** is going to harm the Staffie image...............off lead.............bite trained. 

Glad the voice over highlighted the pack theory is considered old school.


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

Hasn't started well, has it 

Is this just Dog Borstal Abroad?


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

In all seriousness regardless of this guys training methods these two idiots show why dog owners are so badly judged amoung the dog owning public!!


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

I like the African guys comment about your dog does not showi who you are!! 
Pink lead on a pekignese


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

So she is so lazy her dog now goes without food and water, she doesn't deserve a dog in the first place!!!!!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

LexiLou2 said:


> So she is so lazy her dog now goes without food and water, she doesn't deserve a dog in the first place!!!!!


What a lazy cow.


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## sharpeicross (Jan 22, 2012)

I have it on v+


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

sharpeicross said:


> I have it on v+


It will make you frustrated!!


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Well his attitude changed some!!

I have to say a trip to Africa seems to sort out a lot of selfish have it all brit kids... certainly made my DD grow up, and she is a good kid!!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

:lol:

I know Amy the girl in the next episode.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I thought it was good. Lucky kids to get a holiday of a lifetime but it might have some effect on similar people watching it.


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

I'd love to go to SA n do tracking with the malis would be fun


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

Just started watching it. These people shouldn't be allowed dog!

I also think the guy fancy the girl ha


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

DoggieBag said:


> :lol:
> 
> I know Amy the girl in the next episode.


Better be here next week then


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

northnsouth said:


> Better be here next week then


I will tell on you all if you bad mouth her.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

At least it seemed to work both seemed to take resposibility in the end and actually train their dogs properly, reward based too.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> I will tell on you all if you bad mouth her.


Is she a good dog owner? Ha


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Just watching this now 

Really like the way the programme started talking about how experts believe the problems are with the owners not the dogs 

Great intro to the SA trainer, saying his methods are outdated and not used in the UK.

Hopefully, although not the methods our military use, the 2 taking part will realise the way they are treating their dogs won't work.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

jimbo_28_02 said:


> Is she a good dog owner? Ha


You decide, do not let her shorts distract you. 

BBC Three - Don't Blame the Dog, Lost Dogs Home, Australia, Meet glamour model Amy


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I did watch it, on and off throughout tea, so, English women are lazy, says a lot for those that have a full time job and their own business then!! Handling skills were awful, doesn't take a lot of knowledge to see that, but the tracking was bloomin' awful. One small easy way to see where you've come from, lay the line behind you, so you know; another small rule, don't go across your own track, something you can't see if you haven't got a line behind you that tells you where you've come from. Maybe I should be a professional trainer, and very MUCH only joking there!!


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> You decide, do not let her shorts distract you.
> 
> BBC Three - Don't Blame the Dog, Lost Dogs Home, Australia, Meet glamour model Amy


Won't let me watch it


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Oh my god watched the you tube clips for next week and I am angry again...I hope every week doesn't show a moron with a staffie!!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

jimbo_28_02 said:


> Won't let me watch it


Are you under 16?


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Are you under 16?


No, I'm on my iPad so it won't work


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

LexiLou2 said:


> Oh my god watched the you tube clips for next week and I am angry again...I hope every week doesn't show a moron with a staffie!!


But the point of the program is to show how it's the owners not the dogs - so hopefully by showing this people will realise staffies are nice dogs it's just stupid owners that have given them a bad reputation.
I thought tonights program showed how the young lad was 'training' his staffie X to big up his reputation but at the end showed such a sweet lovely dog with a responsible owner.


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## Paula07 (Aug 23, 2010)

I applied for this show. Nick and i got on the short list but i dont think i was clueless enough for them. Had to go to Bristol for an interview and got to meet all the BBC 3 staff, was good fun. 

Looks like the did learn a lot from it.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Fleur said:


> But the point of the program is to show how it's the owners not the dogs - so hopefully by showing this people will realise staffies are nice dogs it's just stupid owners that have given them a bad reputation.
> I thought tonights program showed how the young lad was 'training' his staffie X to big up his reputation but at the end showed such a sweet lovely dog with a responsible owner.


The guy tonight was ok....the you tube clip for next week well the guy classes himself as a breeder and takes the pups out on lead to sell them to the public, I really hope it just doesn't make everyone assume that people that own staffies are all idiots.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Missed this, will have to look for it on iplayer


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## Hertsgirl (Nov 17, 2011)

Ooh I missed this, will have to watch it on catch up tmrw


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## katie200 (May 11, 2009)

i watched it it mad me wana say ahhh catch that staffie in the beggin but verry intresting progam


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm about 20 mins through it, they are both SO annoying!!! The guy is so the reason why Staffies get a bad name, and the girl? I just wanted to slap her. Let the dog go without food because she can't be bothered cleaning up. Ugh.

And don't get my started on painting her dogs nails.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

I only saw the 2nd half but what i saw was quite upsetting, i know it happens but i can't believe people can have the attitudes they did.

On the plus side, i was loving the GSD's and BSD's, plus that man(Henry was it?) was really good and clearly cared about the dogs


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

A note on tracking lines.

There are some environments where you NEVER trail your line, the programme showed one of them and in the UK those of us who have dabbled in a bit of tracking here and there  would never leave it to trail when tracking on say heather as in Ashdown Forest etc.

The reason is that it would constantly get caught up, so you hold it in a loop.

Easy to be an armchair critic, when you have not competed over various terrains with different lines and dogs etc. 

HTH


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Are you under 16?


i think u need to buy her a lead and a pair of longer shorts haha


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

jimbo_28_02 said:


> i think u need to buy her a lead and a pair of longer shorts haha


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

A note about tracking lines, mine's leather and I cut the loop off the end so it never gets caught up, as I was advised to do when attending working trials training albeit some years ago now. I think they were using nylon type lines, but wandering in a circle and going over your own track isn't something we were encouraged to do in training  

It's also easy to be an online critic as well as an armchair critic.


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## Tarnus (Apr 5, 2011)

Christ almighty those two owners are unbelievable morons, the pair of them.


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## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

Sorry but can someone post a link to the Youtube clip for the second episode? I can't seem to find it. 
Pity I'm in Ireland, can't find anywhere online that will let me watch the full show  I'm nosey enough to want to watch the teasers though


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

I watched it, oh my days, that bloke who owned the staffie x I wanted to slap! Urgh, wants a dog to fit his image and to be safe and dodnt use a lead! And that girl, urgh. I'm glad at the end of it they learnt some valuable lessons, I hope they stick with it.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Hmmmm eejit owner owing a Staff for all the wrong reasons. " yeah teaching her to bite- guess i should teach her to stop too- that;ll be hard" GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Didnt much like the "I am pack leader" yank life out of it on a choke chain, whilst shouting at it in a "stern" voice.

Glad he managed to change the young guys attitude though


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh boo I missed it ...and I cant use Iplayer...


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

You better be nice to Amy after next weeks episode or it will will red rep's all round.   :001_rolleyes:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Fleur said:


> Just watching this now
> 
> Really like the way the programme started talking about how experts believe the problems are with the owners not the dogs
> 
> ...


I missed the intro but I did not see anything out of order with the way he handled his dogs and he obviously cared for them a great deal.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Watched it on iplayer this morning. The guy with the staff was an idiot, an absolute plank. His poor dog almost got run over by a bus.

The trainer in Africa seemed a bit full on with the "pack leader" stuff to start with but his dogs all seemed happy and well cared for.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Blitz said:


> I missed the intro but I did not see anything out of order with the way he handled his dogs and he obviously cared for them a great deal.





Goldstar said:


> Watched it on iplayer this morning. The guy with the staff was an idiot, an absolute plank. His poor dog almost got run over by a bus.
> 
> The trainer in Africa seemed a bit full on with the "pack leader" stuff to start with but his dogs all seemed happy and well cared for.


The guy definately cared a lot for all the dogs in his care and did a great job 
The Narrator just really said his methods were old fashioned and when he used a choke chain explained that although this was not something that would normally be used in the UK that the trainer felt it was suitable for this type of training/work (not an exact quote)


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> A note about tracking lines, mine's leather and I cut the loop off the end so it never gets caught up, as I was advised to do when attending working trials training albeit some years ago now. I think they were using nylon type lines, but wandering in a circle and going over your own track isn't something we were encouraged to do in training
> 
> It's also easy to be an online critic as well as an armchair critic.


Attending training and actually accomplishing anything are two totally different things...... 

That is why there is a difference between "_Attendance Cert_ificates" and "_Certificates of Competence and Training_" such as qualifications!


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## x PIXIE x (Feb 9, 2012)

moonviolet said:


> Hmmm i'm not sure i'm going to love this.
> 
> The South African guy in the " don't blame the dog teaser" clip spouts
> " You are going to be the pack leader, you are going to be the dog's boss."
> ...


sadly i agree


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> Attending training and actually accomplishing anything are two totally different things......
> 
> That is why there is a difference between "_Attendance Cert_ificates" and "_Certificates of Competence and Training_" such as qualifications!


So, is there a difference in line handling between training and attending a competition?


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## Miki (Apr 13, 2012)

Lool u guys hav 2 rememba that it was a tv show and you didn't c th whole picture... I'm not sayin we were the best dog owners bt it's easy to get people to say certain things on tv when you keep askin leading questions.. Bt yea obviosly I was stupid trying to bite train a dog.. I think that was to do with social groups and young mentality and my own immaturitys perceptions of danger etc... However certain dogs have been breed for specific reasons and have innate psychological drives so being able to understand and control the natural behaviours of some of these breeds is something I have not fully come to a decision on... 

However I have completely stopped bite trainin lil chica n she is now professionaly cute 24/7 and I have always loved her twice as much as ur partner loves u so u guys can allow ur lil RSPCA meetings n petitions... 

And Henry's a really amazin guy and so are his staff...he's very in tune with his dogs and treats them wit complete respect which he taught me.. They also have special areas for the puppies wit a sexy purple hair chic who loves them next level... The bbc didn't show it bt b4 these dog can even work with a handler they need to have a strong bond with that handler gained from hours and hours of together time


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## Galadriel17 (Jan 22, 2012)

Miki said:


> Lool u guys hav 2 rememba that it was a tv show and you didn't c th whole picture... I'm not sayin we were the best dog owners bt it's easy to get people to say certain things on tv when you keep askin leading questions.. Bt yea obviosly I was stupid trying to bite train a dog.. I think that was to do with social groups and young mentality and my own immaturitys perceptions of danger etc... However certain dogs have been breed for specific reasons and have innate psychological drives so being able to understand and control the natural behaviours of some of these breeds is something I have not fully come to a decision on...
> 
> However I have completely stopped bite trainin lil chica n she is now professionaly cute 24/7 and I have always loved her twice as much as ur partner loves u so u guys can allow ur lil RSPCA meetings n petitions...
> 
> And Henry's a really amazin guy and so are his staff...he's very in tune with his dogs and treats them wit complete respect which he taught me.. They also have special areas for the puppies wit a sexy purple hair chic who loves them next level... The bbc didn't show it bt b4 these dog can even work with a handler they need to have a strong bond with that handler gained from hours and hours of together time


Glad you've changed your view.

I've never understood why people think it makes them look better if their dog is out of control. If I see someone walking down the road with a dog zig zagging in front of them on a tight lead snarling I just think 'that person can't even control their dog'. How having a dog that doesn't respect and look to you for leadership should command respect with other people is beyond me.

IMO if you work with your dog to train it and build a good relationship built on trust and respect then if you do get into a sticky situation that dog will be much more likely to protect you than one that has no boundaries, is fearful and has only been half bite trained.

TBH I thought you just came across as insecure, misguided and careless about your dog's safety initially but the experience seemed to have the biggest impact on you and it was good to see the shift in attitude.

The BBC were being sensationalist again by saying "Our 15,000 year old partnership with man's best friend is braking down...Dog bites alone have tripled in the last 7 years" hmm I wonder if they're using the bites and _strikes_ NHS stats I was talking about the other day. http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/229707-dog-attacks-some-figures.html


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

smokeybear said:


> Attending training and actually accomplishing anything are two totally different things......
> 
> That is why there is a difference between "_Attendance Cert_ificates" and "_Certificates of Competence and Training_" such as qualifications!


Dave told Sleeping lion to cut the handle so it doesn't snag, he doesn't do so bad, in turn we were told by Rod, who I think you will agree had a level of success himself, works for us.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Nice to hear from Miki, but if you post again Miki, could you please speak English, I really cant understand your odd language. 

Smokeybear has got out of bed on the wrong side again I see. What is his/her problem. They used to speak a lot of sense but now it just seems to be nasty sniping at other posters.


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

Miki said:


> Lool u guys hav 2 rememba that it was a tv show and you didn't c th whole picture... I'm not sayin we were the best dog owners bt it's easy to get people to say certain things on tv when you keep askin leading questions.. Bt yea obviosly I was stupid trying to bite train a dog.. I think that was to do with social groups and young mentality and my own immaturitys perceptions of danger etc... However certain dogs have been breed for specific reasons and have innate psychological drives so being able to understand and control the natural behaviours of some of these breeds is something I have not fully come to a decision on...
> 
> However I have completely stopped bite trainin lil chica n she is now professionaly cute 24/7 and I have always loved her twice as much as ur partner loves u so u guys can allow ur lil RSPCA meetings n petitions...
> 
> And Henry's a really amazin guy and so are his staff...he's very in tune with his dogs and treats them wit complete respect which he taught me.. They also have special areas for the puppies wit a sexy purple hair chic who loves them next level... The bbc didn't show it bt b4 these dog can even work with a handler they need to have a strong bond with that handler gained from hours and hours of together time


I took a lot of the programme, at the beginning, with a pinch of salt. I didn't really believe you were the complete numpty, as portrayed. It was intended to show your journey from gormless b*gg*r to responsible, thoughtful young man and it did.
Well done and good luck with Chica :thumbup:


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

I just watched it (repeat ) and I have to say I was annoyed after just the first few minutes and raging that these are exactly the type of dog owners that get dogs a bad name..

Mind you their parents have a lot to answer for raising a 22 yr old to be useless and lazy is nothing to be commended for..

At the point where princess perfect said she wasnt stressed about the dog not getting food and water I wanted to stake her out in the sun!

I dont know if its worth me watching any more in the series because honestly I dont think these kinds of people deserve air time.. or air ...


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Glad you responded Miki,

I too have a staff cross, it's my job to look after him not the other way around- also I don't think you're initial idiocy does anything to blacken the name of the staffy... just goes to show that numpties  shouldn't be allowed pets.

Glad you changed your pretend hard man image with the dog also. Too many a*seh*les walk around scaring their dogs into submission/ attempting poorly to control them and then hanging around with them trying to look intimidating.... in my opinion it's about as brave as the cowards who carry blades. 

And trust me I see HUNNERS of them in Glasgow.

P.s Genuinely could not believe your parents allowed you to even consider bite training a dog... considering you couldn't even get it to walk beside you ha ha ha.... liability doesn't even cut it 
:tongue:
'


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Jenny Olley said:


> Dave told Sleeping lion to cut the handle so it doesn't snag, he doesn't do so bad, in turn we were told by Rod, who I think you will agree had a level of success himself, works for us.


Jenny I drag my line as well, but NOT in heather, neither does Rod, or several other top handlers trainers.

As always, there are pros and cons to everything and more than one way to skin a cat.

There are some top handlers who NEVER drag their lines, as I am sure you know. 

Even people who drag their lines get lost on tracks, as I am sure both you and Dave have seen, certainly I have.

Tracking on some types of ground would be virtually impossible if you dragged your line.

I recently did a 24 hour old blood track and the undergrowth trapped your feet and legs and would certainly have "checked" the dog had those of us who completed it dragged our lines.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> So, is there a difference in line handling between training and attending a competition?


That is like saying is there a difference between ANY training and attending a competition.

Yes there is.

For one thing nerves do not come into play in training usually. 

Secondly it depends on the level of training eg the complexity of the tracks, the number of legs and, most importantly, the type of ground.

If you trail your line in very sticky ground you can end up with what looks like the equivalent of a loaf of bread on the end of your line (not to mention a filthy line).

If you trail your line somewhere in heavy undergrowth, it can get snagged which then will "check" the dog and which can thus demotivate the dog.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Miki said:


> Lool u guys hav 2 rememba that it was a tv show and you didn't c th whole picture... I'm not sayin we were the best dog owners bt it's easy to get people to say certain things on tv when you keep askin leading questions.. Bt yea obviosly I was stupid trying to bite train a dog.. I think that was to do with social groups and young mentality and my own immaturitys perceptions of danger etc... However certain dogs have been breed for specific reasons and have innate psychological drives so being able to understand and control the natural behaviours of some of these breeds is something I have not fully come to a decision on...
> 
> However I have completely stopped bite trainin lil chica n she is now professionaly cute 24/7 and I have always loved her twice as much as ur partner loves u so u guys can allow ur lil RSPCA meetings n petitions...
> 
> And Henry's a really amazin guy and so are his staff...he's very in tune with his dogs and treats them wit complete respect which he taught me.. They also have special areas for the puppies wit a sexy purple hair chic who loves them next level... The bbc didn't show it bt b4 these dog can even work with a handler they need to have a strong bond with that handler gained from hours and hours of together time


Great to hear from you  I definately understand the TV show 'edits' to make the story more interesting.
I think you did a great job and it was fantastic to see you and your dog at the end of the show with such a lovely bond, it really made me smile when you were boxing with her 
I think it was important for the program to show everyone the dangers of bite training and off lead dogs. And how a much better bond and enjoyment can be formed through training.

The SA trainer did talk about the importance of the bond between the dogs and handlers and that the handlers have to spend time with them - it would of been nice to of seen more of this, however as the focus of the programe was on you guys I can see why there wasn't enough time.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Go troll somewhere else Miki with your fakeness. Not going to tell what they are but there are 2 glaring errors in your post.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

DoggieBag said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Go troll somewhere else Miki with your fakeness. Not going to tell what they are but there are 2 glaring errors in your post.


I did wonder but as I cant read that rubbish language I did not notice any errors apart from grammar and language.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

smokeybear said:


> Jenny I drag my line as well, but NOT in heather, neither does Rod, or several other top handlers trainers.
> 
> As always, there are pros and cons to everything and more than one way to skin a cat.
> 
> ...


I am sure you are right allyson, I am not a ticket Judge like yourself so have not had the benefit of seeing a lot of the top handlers tracking, however as the kennel club championships is in scotland this year and Dave has Qualified for both halves i will be watching a lot of tracking on Lauder common in the heather, so will be able to study the different handling styles.

Anyone can loose a track but I believe what Jo (sleeping Lion) was saying is that if you trail your line you know where you've come from, is very helpful to anyone, but especially for newbies and pet handlers, I have not seen the program, I am assuming they where pet handlers rather than training for competition.

We shall continue to trail, I think if a slim leather line cannot get through I wont stand a chance, but whatever works for the individual should be adhered to.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Blitz said:


> I did wonder but as I cant read that rubbish language I did not notice any errors apart from grammar and language.


Personally I was just irritated by the swapping of textspeak to normal speak halfway through the post!! If you can type like a normal person then just do it!!
Interesting programme and it did show 2 stereotypical idiot owner types. I thought the training techniques looked harsh but then they are working in a warzone so I really cant judge.
Looking forward to next week! Loved the trailer, just a terrier allowed to live up to his full terrier potential!LOL


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> Jenny I drag my line as well, but NOT in heather, neither does Rod, or several other top handlers trainers.
> 
> As always, there are pros and cons to everything and more than one way to skin a cat.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure there isn't any heather growing in southern Africa, not sure if they tried to introduce it, but I didn't notice any, although there are definitely good old house sparrows, introduced by us Brits. The terrain is very different to here, the soil is a different composition for a start, once dried it's a lot sandier, if you saw the programme you'll have noticed how red it is. The trees would most likely have been some sort of acacia or mopana, neither really snaggy round the base.



smokeybear said:


> That is like saying is there a difference between ANY training and attending a competition.
> 
> Yes there is.
> 
> ...


This was a daft TV programme with some daft people doing some very basic tracking, it wasn't a competition, so I'm not sure why you think it's so important? Their general handling skills weren't great, but it was good to see they were at least willing to learn.



Jenny Olley said:


> I am sure you are right allyson, I am not a ticket Judge like yourself so have not had the benefit of seeing a lot of the top handlers tracking, however as the kennel club championships is in scotland this year and Dave has Qualified for both halves i will be watching a lot of tracking on Lauder common in the heather, so will be able to study the different handling styles.
> 
> Anyone can loose a track but I believe what Jo (sleeping Lion) was saying is that if you trail your line you know where you've come from, is very helpful to anyone, but especially for newbies and pet handlers, I have not seen the program, I am assuming they where pet handlers rather than training for competition.
> 
> We shall continue to trail, I think if a slim leather line cannot get through I wont stand a chance, but whatever works for the individual should be adhered to.


Not tracked Indie for a while now Jenny, but the min her tracking harness comes out, she knows what's up. Tau never took to it, as you know, stupidly her hunting skills are better than Indie's, she just works better at the gundog stuff, offlead working an area. And I still pass on the technique for ensuring the line doesn't get tangled, pass through the thumbs


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Wow the week has gone fast, part 2 tonight.

Remember no bad mouthing Amy or I will get angry.


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## IndysMamma (Jan 15, 2009)

will just say - total nebbits the pair of them, walking puppies to advertise them? never using a lead? and this is even after one getting run over and killed by a bus


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

OMG that is one hard lesson to be learning!!

What a job...


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm watching it later - teenagers are watching the other chanel.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Just watched the second one. I think they are finding total idiots (and i dont like how its always the women whining and not wanting to pull their weight) but i do think with the current "crisis" in dog perception it does help show its all down to the owners.

I would have loved to have done these those (just for the experience, my dog isnt that bad!). Next week's looks good too!


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## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

I actually felt sorry for Amy. I could understand why she felt she was being up punished, I'm not sure what sleeping on a mattress on the floor has to do with training your dog. She looked to me like she just needed some direction and confidence.

At first I was screaming at the bloke but I warmed to him, his heart was in the right place and he obviously loved dogs. He just couldn't see how he was causing problems by breeding.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I really enjoyed this weeks episode - both owners obviously loved their dogs but were very misguided.
The time at the dogs home must of been very hard for them but they both learned so much


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

I did warm to them in this episode, but the guy with the staffs still annoyed me.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Just watched the 1st 3mins  Seen what I've been saying on here for months Staffy owner believe's that he don't need leads ( Even though 1 got killed by a bus) Doe's not believe in neutering/Microchipping etc will watch the rest tomorrow.


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## IndysMamma (Jan 15, 2009)

the guy with the staffs improved a lot - but I think it would do him a lot of good to carry on in rescue for a while I think, Battersea maybe as it would make him really think more about the breeding as every time he saw a staff/staff x come in he'd be wondering if it was one of his or their offspring. The fact that Battersea is *not* a no kill shelter due to their insane number of stray intakes and lack of space/facilities so he would have to see happy healthy bull breeds being PTS for *absolutely no reason* other than almost no one wants the bull breeds.

He has come a long way and it is obvious he adores his dogs now if he could become a good role model and advocate of the bull breeds helping raise awareness and not adding to the crisis it would be perfect


Am really glad Amy got past her apathy and her previous experience and is working better with Milo


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

pleased he changed his views something He did generally come across as loving his Dgos though.....TBH I've not watched all of it yet to be fair...


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I was pleased to see both these kids get their act together a bit. But why did they have to go to Australia to do it? There are rescues doing the same thing in the UK.

If they bought their tickets with their own money I wouldn't mind, but I strongly suspect they didn't. I don't believe in rewarding the biggest idiots.


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## little tally (Apr 2, 2012)

Myself and my partner have watched both episodes of this and we really enjoy it.

All of the owners have bugged me in their own way, but the girls!!! Oh my, they really got on my goat. As a girl I really cannot get my head around being all screechy and high pitched and flouncey around dogs. I'm sure it's probably just a personal thing as I'm not like that in any way, but it really bugged me. It's no wonder their poor dogs were OTT and didn't listen to them!

The same thing happens when my fella points his finger at the pup and wiggles it then gets annoyed when he gets a nip!!!  Idiot!! Fortuntely it seems I'm now able to train both my dog and my fella, and he has packed it in! Lol.

The guy on last night's programme clearly loved his dogs, and they were beautiful. I thought he really got involved from the get go and having him take a training class was a great idea. I hope he stops breeding and it was great to see him finally put his lovely dog on a lead!!!


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## IndysMamma (Jan 15, 2009)

Burrowzig said:


> I was pleased to see both these kids get their act together a bit. But why did they have to go to Australia to do it? There are rescues doing the same thing in the UK.
> 
> If they bought their tickets with their own money I wouldn't mind, but I strongly suspect they didn't. I don't believe in rewarding the biggest idiots.


it was probably the only way they could get some of the bigger nonces to volunteer - look at the lad this week he didn't think he had any problems and probably went on expecting to be told he's wonderful and get a free fab holiday too

I think that's part of the reason they were housed in spare rooms on the floor - to enforce the 'Hah fooled you this is *not* a holiday' aspect


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

Ive watched both now and I have to say this weeks pair didnt annoy me as much as the first weeks..

I did end up in tears several times though...


That guy could apply himself and do some good, he did click with the dogs and clearly loved being around them..


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

Amy annoyed me. 
She was just useless at the beginning, I don't think she was as good as the man in training, it just seemed like she didn't want to be there. Also the fact that she just looked on the internet, saw some pups and bought one within a day! What was she expecting - a well behaved dog with ZERO work! 
Sorry Doggiebag! 

The man annoyed me all the way through TBH. I could clearly see he loved his dogs but it wearing a harness with spikes in and walking it without a lead even though one of his pups was killed just annoyed me. Plus he was walking the un vaccinating pups! However there was a clip at the end with him walking it on a blue lead, I wonder how long that will last?


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

dandogman said:


> *Amy annoyed me.
> She was just useless at the beginning, I don't think she was as good as the man in training, it just seemed like she didn't want to be there. Also the fact that she just looked on the internet, saw some pups and bought one within a day! What was she expecting - a well behaved dog with ZERO work!
> Sorry Doggiebag!
> *
> The man annoyed me all the way through TBH. I could clearly see he loved his dogs but it wearing a harness with spikes in and walking it without a lead even though one of his pups was killed just annoyed me. Plus he was walking the un vaccinating pups! However there was a clip at the end with him walking it on a blue lead, I wonder how long that will last?


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Everyone ready for tonights hour of being disappointed by fellow dog owners?

Sounds like there is a quitter tonight.


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## Paula07 (Aug 23, 2010)

DoggieBag said:


> Everyone ready for tonights hour of being disappointed by fellow dog owners?
> 
> Sounds like there is a quitter tonight.


So glad you reminded me! Phew, close one..:crazy::biggrin5:


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

The woman with the mastiff cross who has inflicted some severe injuries didn't seem to realise quite how severe the problem is .


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

DoggieBag said:


> Everyone ready for tonights hour of being disappointed by fellow dog owners?
> 
> Sounds like there is a quitter tonight.


OK she didn't quit due to the dog training. So not a "quitter" as such.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Dogless said:


> The woman with the mastiff cross who has inflicted some severe injuries didn't seem to realise quite how severe the problem is .


She makes me nervous she has no idea how big her problem really is.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

LexiLou2 said:


> She makes me nervous she has no idea how big her problem really is.


I know; bites that open faces and go down to the bone on an arm are terrifying to me .


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

:lol: at the overdone camo paint.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

:lol: at the "they prefer blue sir" :lol: 

So jealous - OH is off to Canada in 7 weeks for 6 weeks and may get to meet some of these dogs.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I liked the camp hairdresser in the end....total attitude change and worked hard .


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Those guys came across so well. Cool, calm and hard as nails with a soft centre. I want them on my side!! The dogs were awesome...

I love the comment about poisoning his dog,(when looking at footage of him hand feeding tuna and mayonaise), something like "why not just give him rat poison, at least it will kill him quickly" and "when you dress your dog as a clown, you strip him of his dignity"!!!

It was a shame Becks had to leave she looked like she could really have applied herself!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

This is your 68 minutes warning until tonights episode.


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## Freddie and frank (Mar 26, 2012)

Only watched last weeks episode last night.love it. 
Spend the first half of the programme shaking my head in disbelief :scared:

Love the programme.

Did flinch though when they abseiled down that wall with the dog dangling underneath them!!

Fantastic and clever dogs though.

Wonder what tonight will bring??? :


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## little tally (Apr 2, 2012)

Currently watching this week's episode.. Could quite happily jump into the tv and give them both a shake!!! And that's putting it nicely, I'm actually FURIOUS :cursing: I really hope they make improvements or I'll do my own head in with anger!

Being both a dog and cat owner, I am now MORTIFIED that the bloke just LET those dogs attack the cat and near rip it's legs off! He needs to grow a pair and get some bloody authority! If I was there I would bray him I'm so furious!

And as I've mentioned previously about the girls.. STOP SCREAMING. Dear me. THe dog got hoofed by the cow, because she is fannying about. And screaming at the top of your lungs whilst you watch it happen isn't going to stop it happening! Bloody hell!!!!

Sorry for ranting, but these two have royally narked me, far more than most so far this series!!!!!!

On the plus side, massively cute that my boyfriend is now doing some fun training with our Frank  He's having a moment of inspiration!!!! :lol:


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

While I didn't like the rough handling of both dogs and sheep, it's good to see them both got thier dogs in gear.

What the heck is Zeus doing wearing an x back harness for a walk? it's not a walking harness it's for working  blinking plonker, oh well.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I was dissapionted to see Alpha Rolling - however the man obviously had a great bond with his working dogs.
My heart was in my mouth when the lad let the dogs out when the cats were there 
Good to see the owners take on board the advice and really look at themselves and how not only they interacted with their dogs but also the people around them.
But I agree that man should never of bought a Husky, he really doesn't have a clue


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

This weeks one was better than last weeks I thought but then last weeks were dogs of war and they protect our soldiers so you can't namby pamby about with them really can you?
This weeks were fit, healthy looking dogs and so very well trained but did you see the alpha roll? Hmm, seems so far that both programmes are well out of reward based training but then these dogs aren't your lie on the rug in front of the fire types. I liked the prog this week and the dogs were amazing so this guys training was obviously good.

Have to watch it with an open mind and both progs were far kinder than the 'Ice Dogs' programme of few weeks ago - those dogs I felt really sorry for.


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

Malmum said:


> Have to watch it with an open mind and both progs were far kinder than the 'Ice Dogs' programme of few weeks ago - those dogs I felt really sorry for.


Ice dogs? Totally missed that one.

Was it spice or spike, either way I fell in love her, the dogs are so fit and well trained! , wasn't to sure about the whole alpha roll thing, and my heart was in my mouth with that cat! How the handled the sheep you know when they went through that sheet thing made me cringe, wasn't quite gentle.

I'm pleased that they learnt something from the experience, that's always a good thing.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

This show is really beginning to annoy me!! The week they went to the rescue and were taught positive reinforcement was great, but I do not understand the point in taking people to somewhere that uses "controversial" "outdated" methods (the show's words) and teaching them that this is the correct way to train dogs. The show could be really informative and interesting if they just went to places that didn't keep banging on about pack leader. If, as the show states, the methods are outdated and frowned upon here, why teach them when there are other ways!? 

It's so infuriating because there is potential for this show to be really helpful but as it is, it's just sending the message that you have to be pack leader and pin your dogs to the floor or put choke collars on them and yank your dog about. If the show at least believed this methods were best, it would be very annoying, but I'd just accept that the producer and I simply don't agree. However, the fact that the voice over woman keeps saying that these are not methods people approve of in the UK etc etc is confusing me! Why show them as the best option then!? There are plenty of incredibly trained working dogs raised on positive reinforcement, there is no need to keep showing this.

And breathe.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Alice Childress said:


> This show is really beginning to annoy me!! The week they went to the rescue and were taught positive reinforcement was great, but I do not understand the point in taking people to somewhere that uses "controversial" "outdated" methods (the show's words) and teaching them that this is the correct way to train dogs. The show could be really informative and interesting if they just went to places that didn't keep banging on about pack leader. If, as the show states, the methods are outdated and frowned upon here, why teach them when there are other ways!?
> 
> It's so infuriating because there is potential for this show to be really helpful but as it is, it's just sending the message that you have to be pack leader and pin your dogs to the floor or put choke collars on them and yank your dog about. If the show at least believed this methods were best, it would be very annoying, but I'd just accept that the producer and I simply don't agree. However, the fact that the voice over woman keeps saying that these are not methods people approve of in the UK etc etc is confusing me! Why show them as the best option then!? There are plenty of incredibly trained working dogs raised on positive reinforcement, there is no need to keep showing this.
> 
> And breathe.


I agree 100%. I found it particularly frustrating in the Army Dog week when it was made to look like the teacher women has cured he VERY agressive dog just by changing her attitude and tone of voice! SURELY she also received help from a behaviourist etc, and if not, why not? And if so, why wasn't it shown?! Surely if the dog hadn't had some rehabilitation as well it's just a time bomb waiting to go off again? 

There are good things about the programme but it could have been so much better. As far as the Beeb is concerned I do think good morals SHOULD actually come before good entertainment!


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

Alice Childress said:


> This show is really beginning to annoy me!! The week they went to the rescue and were taught positive reinforcement was great, but I do not understand the point in taking people to somewhere that uses "controversial" "outdated" methods (the show's words) and teaching them that this is the correct way to train dogs. The show could be really informative and interesting if they just went to places that didn't keep banging on about pack leader. If, as the show states, the methods are outdated and frowned upon here, why teach them when there are other ways!?
> 
> It's so infuriating because there is potential for this show to be really helpful but as it is, it's just sending the message that you have to be pack leader and pin your dogs to the floor or put choke collars on them and yank your dog about. If the show at least believed this methods were best, it would be very annoying, but I'd just accept that the producer and I simply don't agree. However, the fact that the voice over woman keeps saying that these are not methods people approve of in the UK etc etc is confusing me! Why show them as the best option then!? There are plenty of incredibly trained working dogs raised on positive reinforcement, there is no need to keep showing this.
> 
> And breathe.


But the "outdated" and "controversial" methods worked for these dogs and they did not look unhappy or distressed. Seeing them work huge numbers of sheep and cattle was amazing - this was the best programme of the series so far.

Looking around at dogs (mine included) that are trained with modern methods I can not honestly say that they are better behaved or happier than dogs that were trained in the Barbara Woodhouse era.

Now that I have four dogs, I have come to realize that one size does not fit all - with some dogs you have to go slowly and treat them gently, whereas others will only respond to a sharper tone or a tap on the backside. Saying that I woud not let Cesar Milan anywhere near my dogs - he is a dog bully rather than dog trainer


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

This is your 93 minutes to go warning. 

Think it's the acting one today, should be fun.


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## IndysMamma (Jan 15, 2009)

am catching up on iPlayer - am on a BGT kick this week


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Another pug owner tonight - that's the 3rd in this series.
What is it about pugs that attracts people with no understanding of dogs


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

The dog is climbing on her head because it's trying to dominate her...really?!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

SpringerHusky said:


> The dog is climbing on her head because it's trying to dominate her...really?!


mmm  I think the poor dog was trying to find a secure foot hold 

Good to see rewards based training this week though


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm recording it so will watch it later. I think the 'outdated' methods may have been the best - just looking at the DINO thread and how many of our dogs can't tolerate other dogs makes me wonder if we've got it all wrong with our new way of namby pambying our dogs with treats and clickers!

They are definitely right with the tone of voice used, been trying it with this lot since last week and they really do respond quicker when I use a forceful tone. If I say 'Flynn, in!' in a stern tone, he gets up immediately but when I say 'Puppet in you come' he just wags his tail. I usually talk to him like a baby though and I know it's not good really but it's fun and he enjoys it too! :blush2:

Much as I think the old methods may have worked better I'm just not consistently forceful enough to do it.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Malmum said:


> I'm recording it so will watch it later. I think the 'outdated' methods may have been the best - just looking at the DINO thread and how many of our dogs can't tolerate other dogs makes me wonder if we've got it all wrong with our new way of namby pambying our dogs with treats and clickers!
> 
> They are definitely right with the tone of voice used, been trying it with this lot since last week and they really do respond quicker when I use a forceful tone. If I say 'Flynn, in!' in a stern tone, he gets up immediately but when I say 'Puppet in you come' he just wags his tail. I usually talk to him like a baby though and I know it's not good really but it's fun and he enjoys it too! :blush2:
> 
> Much as I think the old methods may have worked better I'm just not consistently forceful enough to do it.


I haven't used 'em and I managed to work Maya to be able to socialise with other dogs 

Edit; bloody internet I added more Dx

I don't baby Maya but I don't bully her either. We work on a trade system, if I respect her then she'll respect me


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

I enjoyed it 

I also watched last weeks one on BBC iPlayer - I want the husky :001_wub:


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## astro2011 (Dec 13, 2011)

I can see my house now with Astro, a siberian husky and an northern inuit - my dream :001_wub:

Looking forward to next weeks episode!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

I kept watching going,"Eeeeee klee kai gimmeeee" :001_tt2:


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

SpringerHusky said:


> I kept watching going,"Eeeeee klee kai gimmeeee" :001_tt2:


oooh what Klee kai?

the people on it make me so mad, the guy who bred and bred his staffy crosses


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Starlite said:


> oooh what Klee kai?
> 
> the people on it make me so mad, the guy who bred and bred his staffy crosses


Newest one in hollywood in the small dogs area you see a little black and white klee kai


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

How on earth can that be Disneyland for dogs?? I'd never send my dog to a place that puts dogs in a carry case over night.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

It's horrendous isn't it? Where do they find these "experts"? The ONLY person I have seen so far that has actually TRAINED a dog is the woman with the acting collie in the sand school. Everyone else has just bullied them into submission.

ETA and "Jack" the stage dog seems well trained.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Werehorse said:


> It's horrendous isn't it? Where do they find these "experts"? The ONLY person I have seen so far that has actually TRAINED a dog is the woman with the acting collie in the sand school. Everyone else has just bullied them into submission.


There was that dog shelter one they used positive training also.


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

The aussie pound trainer used treat training not seen this weeks though yet.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

The klee kai, the one she claimed was biting her but actually licking :lol:


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Oh yeah - I liked the aussie shelter as well, I'd forgotten about them.


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Liked the concept of the dogs being able to run around like loons during the day but really wasn't impressed with the crates ("private sleeping dens") either.

According to their website, the dogs are crated at 7:30pm and let out at 6:30pm. S&B aren't crated (Breeze was before we got her, for similar periods of time) but that's too long IMO, any thoughts? At least in a kennel they can toilet away from their bed if they really can't hold it, 11hrs is a long time!

Dog Boarding at Canyon View Ranch in Topanga Canyon

Having said that, the acting dogs were fantastic and I loved the choccy Lab with the tennis balls


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

Sorry best quote of the programme about how the dog feels...



> I'm like a nomad of emotion


ut::001_tt2:


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I didn't like the 'crates' either. From what i've seen of Cesar Milans progs it would seem that folk out there call crates what we call pet carriers. Awful little cooped up boxes really! 

Think that girl was just a spoiled little precious and didn't know the first thing about dog ownership. Hopefully those guys showed her what ownong a dog really entails, poop scooping and all!


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## little tally (Apr 2, 2012)

Looking forward to this week's episode!!

Already LOVING that the Bassett Hound is called Wallace!

That lad Tyler reminds me of soooooo many of my clients... Demotivated and not taking responsibility! Although would like to point out that the majority of the young people I work with are completely the opposite!

Really hoping the girl doesn't annoy me as much as the squealy crapy ones from previous weeks have!

Oooh bring it on..Lol!


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## AdMed (Apr 14, 2012)

It's driving Barney loopy, I think the surround sound has convinced him that I'm hiding dogs somewhere in the house!


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## Paula07 (Aug 23, 2010)

What did we think of this weeks episode then?


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

Just watching this now. Bit concerned though as some of the husky crosses have the hound coat surely they must get cold being kept outside overnight


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I thought that too, surely that's what makes the Huskies and Mals weatherproof.  All the dogs looked quite contented though and great runners. 

When I run with my sled dog he lags three feet behind, lol  his mum is much better and far less lazy - typical female eh?

I adored Wallace and can see how you could spoil him, such a character and he sounds like a blood hound. Gorgeous boy!


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## little tally (Apr 2, 2012)

I really liked this week's episode. Wallace was beautiful! Really glad she got him under control when she got back. She didn't annoy me half as much as the other girls have - far less squeaky! The lad actually did ok too, thank goodness.

We were a bit shocked when we saw the short haired dogs out in the bad weather in those tiny little boxes! But they clearly adored running and had a great time which was nice to watch.

The man was TERRIFYING when he screamed at the young lad for dropping the sled... It was clear how much it meant to him.

How many more episodes are left??


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

It was a good episode in my opinion. 

It was a bit weird seeing what looked like 'normal' dogs running (not husky types) as I just didn't think they would have it in them! 

I was a bit annoyed at the end when it showed the boys dog running off the lead in the street though...


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