# Would a dog attack for NO REASON at all?



## AngelEyes92 (Jan 30, 2012)

Hello, I've not been on here for about a year, and so much has changed... New baby (8 months old now!) new house, new job, same dog!! Haha. 

Anyway, after one of my friends' dad got attacked by a dog, she said "it attacked him for absolutely no reason. He was just standing there stroking a puppy and talking to it's owner when this dog (the attacking) run from nowhere and jumped up and bit him" The dog did leave some nasty looking wounds (friends dad is absolutely fine, some stitches but went home the same day) 

It just got me wondering- Would a dog REALLY attack for no reason? I personally have the belief that there's always a reason behind a dog attack- possibly the little puppy (unrelated to the attacking dog) in this case? 

(I really don't want to start an argument on my first post in a year,but I do understand that there may be some debate here, so can I just ask that everybodys opinions be respected when replying to the thread) 

Thanks


----------



## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I always believe there is a reason no matter how subtle.


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I firmly believe there is ALWAYS a reason, even if that reason is not entirely apparent.


----------



## AngelEyes92 (Jan 30, 2012)

I have always thought so, but I've heard after so many attacks; "it was unprovoked" it really made me start to question my own beliefs!


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

AngelEyes92 said:


> Hello, I've not been on here for about a year, and so much has changed... New baby (8 months old now!) new house, new job, same dog!! Haha.
> 
> Anyway, after one of my friends' dad got attacked by a dog, she said "it attacked him for absolutely no reason. He was just standing there stroking a puppy and talking to it's owner when this dog (the attacking) run from nowhere and jumped up and bit him" The dog did leave some nasty looking wounds (friends dad is absolutely fine, some stitches but went home the same day)
> 
> ...


if a dog came out of nowhere and ran across a field to bite someone then the reason is he is an aggressive bugger. 
and that can be for lots of different reasons


----------



## Guest (Mar 25, 2014)

Depends on what you mean by "reason". 

For example a dog having a seizure might attack for "no reason" other than the seizure.

But with hindsight, there is often a pretty obvious "reason" for dog bites.


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

If the dog ran out of nowhere then you have no idea if the attacking dog had been abused by men in the past, had been trained to attack anyone approaching the house..... there could be a million reasons in its history. 
Personally I think there is always some sort of reason, however subtle/unobvious to us humans


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

There is always a reason. It might not be obvious and it might not make sense - and it could be as simple as the dog is having a bad day and something perfectly innocent triggers its anger.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

We used to have a very aggressive guard dog, Akita X GSD. He would warn and he would have followed it up of that I am sure. He would never warn for no reason.

We had a neighbour who used to drive down our farm track cos the access was easier than his own. One afternoon I saw him hit this dogs back end with his car. The dog screamed but was on a chain at the time. The neighbour shouldn't have been on our track.

A couple of weeks later, neighbour comes down the track again and drove a bit too close to the dog....still on his chain. I was cleaning windows and saw the whole thing. Dog lunged at the car and ripped the bumper off.He did not give any warning.

On the face of it, it looked like the dog attacked without cause.


----------



## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

AngelEyes92 said:


> Hello, I've not been on here for about a year, and so much has changed... New baby (8 months old now!) new house, new job, same dog!! Haha.
> 
> Anyway, after one of my friends' dad got attacked by a dog, she said "it attacked him for absolutely no reason. He was just standing there stroking a puppy and talking to it's owner when this dog (the attacking) run from nowhere and jumped up and bit him" The dog did leave some nasty looking wounds (friends dad is absolutely fine, some stitches but went home the same day)
> 
> ...


I agree with others there is always a reason, but it may not have had anything to do with what your friends Dad did.
My mum was once waiting at the traffic lights on her moped, a dog ran up to her bit her leg and left, I am sure the dog had what it saw as a reason to do it.


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Lexiedhb said:


> If the dog ran out of nowhere then you have no idea if the attacking dog had been abused by men in the past, had been trained to attack anyone approaching the house..... there could be a million reasons in its history.
> Personally I think there is always some sort of reason, however subtle/unobvious to us humans


Couldn't have put it any better !


----------



## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> We used to have a very aggressive guard dog, Akita X GSD. He would warn and he would have followed it up of that I am sure. He would never warn for no reason.
> 
> We had a neighbour who used to drive down our farm track cos the access was easier than his own. One afternoon I saw him hit this dogs back end with his car. The dog screamed but was on a chain at the time. The neighbour shouldn't have been on our track.
> 
> ...


The dog associates the car with pain so its a learned reaction to defend himself.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I think there's always a reason, even if it isn't apparent at the time. From my point of view, the attack on Kilo was unprovoked - walking past, unaware of dog who came from behind - but the attacking dog obviously had his reasons. We were walking past his garden, gate was left open so maybe territorial? He can be "iffy" (owner's words!) with male dogs too and I was walking two past. Who knows? It was clearly unacceptable but we were obviously offering some kind of provocation. I often wonder whether Kilo has some sort of different scent he kicks out as he has been attacked before seemingly unprovoked and many, many dogs react aggressively to him even when he is initially unaware of their presence. He really has a "kick me" sign. Fascinating really in a heart breaking sort of way.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I do believe that any dog who bites has a reason, though the reason may be only in his own head, hence why we can't identify why he bit.

It could be something from his past, something the human does that he perceives as threatening.

Dogs see things differently from us very often and we can't get into a dog's head.


----------



## korrok (Sep 4, 2013)

I think there's always a reason but that reason is not always something that people did wrong in that moment. For the most part, I think there are probably clear reasons, but the fact remains that there are a minority of dog attacks that are the result of very abstract reasons, such as aggression/behavioural anomalies brought on by illness. These can appear like "no reason" to those involved in the incident at that moment.


----------



## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

I think dogs bite for a reason, but can certainly see why people say they were bit or seen a dog bite without reason. 

Years ago my husband was attacked by a dog (it wasn`t just a bite it was an attack) We were just sat in a garden, my husband put his cup down the dog that had been seemingly sleeping in the evening sun leaped up and launched himself at my husband knocking him over, he still bears the scars on his neck. None of us had a clue what made the dog do that he wasn`t even near my husband at the time he just launched himself across the garden. 

Last year one of the local lads was sat with his dog at his side pretty much like he does every fine day. Lots of people walk by I`ve stoked the dog myself and seen a lot of people fuss her, but one day she jumped up and bit the arm of a lady passing by just minding her own business. This was witnessed by a number of people including myself we all said the dog just attacked for no reason. Of course there must have been a reason for the dog to choose to bite on that particular occasion. 

So while I do think there is always going to be a reason I can see why people say there were attacked for no reason because the reason is not obvious to us.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I agree with everybody else that usually there is a good reason for an attack, just that we aren't aware of it, or haven't read the preceding signals/warnings. I also think that, just as in people, there is the occasional 'loose screw' which really can't be explained.


----------



## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

An unprovoked attack isn't the same as an attack for no reason...I think dogs will and do attack people and dogs who have done nothing obvious or unreasonable, but, the attacking dog has it's reasons.


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

Hi Angel,kind of strange the way you have worded it.
Look,if it was your dad that got attacked by your dog and you have concerncs about your dog attacking your new baby.
Play safe and get rid of the dog now,you can replace the dog,but not a child.
Hope every thing goes ok.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

There's always a reason even if it seems unprovoked. You may not know if a dog is in pain or has had a bad experience with the trigger or just got up on the wrong side of the bed that morning.


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.

Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.

Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Wiz201 said:


> The dog associates the car with pain so its a learned reaction to defend himself.


yes, but that was the only car he attacked.


----------



## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Prowl said:


> Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


In my experience this is not true. When I was bitten the dog ran out of the house I was walking past and bit me, no warning, no growling. Now I am not saying there was was no reason for it (I suspect it was being teased by the children in the house) but there was certainly no warning and yes, I do consider that an unprovoked attack - at 12/13ish years old I was too frightened to worry about my pride.


----------



## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Fluketheduke said:


> Hi Angel,kind of strange the way you have worded it.
> Look,if it was your dad that got attacked by your dog and you have concerncs about your dog attacking your new baby.
> Play safe and get rid of the dog now,you can replace the dog,but not a child.
> Hope every thing goes ok.


I don't see why you think the wording is strange - the op is not talking about her own dog.


----------



## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

Prowl said:


> Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


Sadly they don't, dogs can just run up and bite someone. The person being bitten may have done nothing to provoke and be minding their own business. I am not talking any old dog here, of course they will have previously exhibited fear/nervousness/worry, on other occasions, which their owner may or may not have picked up on.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Prowl said:


> Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


You obviously have not read all the other posts. The attack can be totally unprovoked even though the dog has a reason in its head.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I think there is always a reason even if we don't know why something has triggered it off.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Prowl said:


> Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


I wouldnt say that a dog that just appears out of nowhere, runs across a field and bites a complete stranger gave a 'warning sign'?
I agree with you that owners often use the 'sudden attack/showed no warning signs' line to conceal hurt pride, but a complete stranger minding his own business in a field with absolutely no connection to any sudden dog appearing has no pride issues to be motivated by. For him, its simply a sudden surprise attack.

And it is very possible for dogs to just run up to people and bite them in an 'unprovoked manner'. The dog could deliberately trained by someone to be that way, and then has escaped, or been let off the lead irresponsibly. 
The dog could be nervous aggressive to strangers, then escaped or been let off lead irresponsibly.
The dog could have had poor levels of socialisation or poor genes, ie, a puppy farm dog, and then escaped or let off the lead irresponsibly.
The dog could be sick and ditto


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Tails and Trails said:


> I wouldnt say that a dog that just appears out of nowhere, runs across a field and bites a complete stranger gave a 'warning sign'?
> I agree with you that owners often use the 'sudden attack/showed no warning signs' line to conceal hurt pride, but a complete stranger minding his own business in a field with absolutely no connection to any sudden dog appearing has no pride issues to be motivated by. For him, its simply a sudden surprise attack.
> 
> And it is very possible for dogs to just run up to people and bite them in an 'unprovoked manner'. The dog could deliberately trained by someone to be that way, and then has escaped, or been let off the lead irresponsibly.
> ...


Years ago when I first worked for a vet a very upset owner came in to have their dog put to sleep. It had run across a field and attacked someone. Obviously it was a responsible owner or they would not have taken that course of action and they had no idea why the dog did it but felt they could not wait for it to happen a second time.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> Years ago when I first worked for a vet a very upset owner came in to have their dog put to sleep. It had run across a field and attacked someone. Obviously it was a responsible owner or they would not have taken that course of action and they had no idea why the dog did it but felt they could not wait for it to happen a second time.


i would say, in that instance, unless it was a rare case of a sudden disorder or unknown illness, the owner has missed some warning signs brewing up with their dog over a period of time.
but that isnt to proportion blame, they may not have been qualified to see the signs, as not all signs are blatant, and if everyone was skilled at this, why would we need trainers and behaviourists?

but if there were some signs or previous changes of behaviours which they noted and didnt act upon, their could, potentially be a degree of irresponsbility in terms of not changing what and how they did things with the dog, eg, keeping dog on lead.

I would have asked the vet to ascertain first if their was a medical issue that caused the behaviour that then could be treated so the behaviour would not re-occur. Then i would go thru the same process with a behaviourist. That way they may have found the dog would have been 'fixed' and would gone back to being no threat to anyone.
But if none of that worked, only then would i feel euthanasia could be a responsible response.


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

Prowl said:


> Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


Unprovoked bites do happen. A friend of my had a rhodesian with a seizure disorder who went for her in the middle of a seizure. She did absolutely nothing to provoke the attack, the dog was seizing and part of the seizures meant bites. The same dog also attacked a coffee table during a seizure. The coffee table did not provoke him either. (And yes, he was PTS.)

Dogs with normal brain function can also bite unprovoked in that they have an accumulation of stressors and triggers to the point that they just lash out with minimal to no provocation. The dog who is constantly harassed by kids who is also stressed by other factors (maybe hes at the vet), who suddenly lashes out at the next kid he sees who might be doing nothing at all, just happens to be a kid. 
Yesterday I saw a grown adult have a complete and utter hissy fit breakdown over someone asking her what time the soccer game was. Hardly a provoking question, but this woman lost it on the questioner and attacked her verbally (quite thoroughly too). Had absolutely nothing to do with the questioner, and everything to do with this woman being totally stressed out and having poor coping skills.



Fluketheduke said:


> Hi Angel,kind of strange the way you have worded it.
> Look,if it was your dad that got attacked by your dog and you have concerncs about your dog attacking your new baby.
> Play safe and get rid of the dog now,you can replace the dog,but not a child.
> Hope every thing goes ok.


Actually, some of us find our dogs irreplaceable too. Though yes, the childs well-being is of utmost importance.

But its not that simple either. Often aggression is very contextual. A dog who is uncomfortable with strange men may be perfectly fine with children. I have a dog who is aloof with most people, but who has never met a child she doesnt like. Some dogs are like that.
Triggers can be very contextual too. The dog who is a resource guarder isnt necessarily a danger outside of that context. If the aggression is easily predictable it makes management and behavior modification far easier.

Not only that, but sometimes its actually a good thing for the family to know their dog might bite. Im actually more comfortable with a family who says Fido might bite than a family who says Fido would never bite. Because in the latter scenario, the owners end up being less cautious and taking more risks than the ones who know their dogs potential.

I dont think its smart or helpful to make blanket statements about dogs who bite, especially not a callous get rid of the dog. 
In a home with owners willing to work with the dog and manage the dog intelligently, dogs who have bite histories can end up perfectly safe.


----------



## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I`ve got 4 `biters`. They have never bitten me. This is not a boast, this is gratitude! They have taught me to respect their space and understand some of the subtle language animals have. 
BTW dogs can be `trained` to skip Warning Signs 1-5 ( stiffening, eye widening, staring, change of posture, vocalisation) and go straight to Charge! You do that by punishing signals 1-5.....
So I have one who will lunge and shout as Sign One, having been trained out of the others by the plonkers who owned her before me. 
The language of animals is so subtle to our limited senses we simply miss most of it. Sit and watch dogs interacting - it`s fascinating.


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Prowl said:


> *Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.*
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


Apart from the many instances where there is no warning .

You live in a very black-and-white version of reality, Prowl.


----------



## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Prowl said:


> Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


I think you are confusing the word 'unprovoked' with the phrase 'without reason'. There is always a reason - that's the way the world words, cause and effect etc. However, that does not mean a dog attacking has to be provoked by the victim either.

Maggie was attacked by a dog. It was as unprovoked as it could have been. She was sitting calmly, leaning against my leg while I spoke to another dog person. This random dog charges up from around the corner, and makes a bee line for Maggie, jumping on her. Maggie did not even see the dog coming, let alone provoked it. However, that is not to say there was not a _reason_ for the attack. From what I gathered, the reason was in part due to the fact that this dog had just spent the last two weeks in kennels while his family were on holiday, and the owner had taken him straight out to a very dog busy area, rather than taking him home to calm down and settle. I imagine the stress of the situation and the excitement at being reunited edged over into aggression, and Maggie took the brunt of it. I suspect there were other reasons also that I cannot know about (maybe the dog was attacked by a dog before etc etc). Regardless though, the was a reason... but it was certainly unprovoked by Maggie.


----------



## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Fluketheduke said:


> Hi Angel,kind of strange the way you have worded it.
> Look,if it was your dad that got attacked by your dog and you have concerncs about your dog attacking your new baby.
> Play safe and get rid of the dog now,you can replace the dog,but not a child.
> Hope every thing goes ok.


Completely disagree. Dogs are NOT irreplaceable! They are living breathing sentient beings just like children! There is no evidence whatsoever to support claims of humans being more important.


----------



## LynnM (Feb 21, 2012)

Prowl said:


> Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


Tell that to the woman I met in a hospital 9 years ago. She had been standing, chatting to her next door neighbour on the path outside their gardens when they noticed a staffie running down the road towards them. They thought it had escaped and was just on its way somewhere but as it got near it jumped at her and ended up ripping the muscle off from under her arm before some workmen managed to beat it off. She will be scarred for life and for nothing more than having a friendly chat with her neighbour. Hardly provocative behaviour!


----------



## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't know, I was babysitting once and they had an elderly retriever and an adult jack Russell.
I was at in the lounge and the retriever approached me so I stroked its head, out of nowhere the jack Russell suddenly appeared and bit my hand.
I never even knew it was in the room nor saw it coming, as far as I am concerned it was totally unprovoked.


----------



## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Prowl said:


> Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


Brock hasn't bitten...but whether that's from good bite inhibition or because he's heavily managed I don't know.

But none of the people he's reacted to have done anything that should have provoked a reaction...in fact standing near someone he's reacted to seems to be enough to make him react every time he sees one particular person.

With dogs - if he was off lead around other dogs he absolutely would run up and bite them with no warning and no provocation...existing seems to be enough provocation to have him trying to attack dogs. He'll see a dog across the road walking along minding its own business and he'll try to attack it, that's not provoked.

I know the reason, he gets back pains* and he's associated that with people because they've been near him and more so with dogs because I have to rely on other people keeping their dogs away where with people I can control that.

But he gives no warning at all and as far as the person/dog is concerned they've done nothing other than be there.

* for anyone interested in an update...One painkiller helped a lot, but there's still a bit of an issue, another didn't make any difference, so we're still experimenting, but, most days his threshold distance for dogs is getting closer and we don't experiment with people yet.


----------



## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

Sparkle22 said:


> I don't know, I was babysitting once and they had an elderly retriever and an adult jack Russell.
> I was at in the lounge and the retriever approached me so I stroked its head, out of nowhere the jack Russell suddenly appeared and bit my hand.
> I never even knew it was in the room nor saw it coming, as far as I am concerned it was totally unprovoked.


Unprovoked, as far as you know, but again not necessarily without reason - Jack Russell was scared that you were going to hurt it's old retriever companion - protection? Perhaps it didn't want to share it's friend? There are a million possible reasons, they don't always make sense and they are not always obvious.

For my dog a stranger reaching out to touch him is enough of a reason - a year or two ago, somebody coming too close to him would have been a good enough reason, we don't always understand their reasoning.

Edit - was not picking at your post or anything - just using it to explain what others have been saying about seemingly unprovoked attacks with a reason


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Prowl said:


> Yes dogs all ways warn before a bite they don't just run up to people unprovoked and bite them.
> 
> Many people do not understand the why and so class it as an unprovoked attack. often ones pride is a big factor in getting bittern.
> 
> Its easier to say you were bittern unprovoked and keep your pride in tacked.


Unfortunately, this just isn't true.

My eldest Son had a friend who owned an eight year old Bulldog. My Son was at his Friend's house one day, sitting watching the football, and the dog was lying on the hearthrug.

My Son stood up to go into the kitchen and the Bulldog leapt up, chased him into the kitchen, and bit his leg and ankle very badly indeed.

The dog gave no warning, no growl, nothing.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Tails and Trails said:


> i would say, in that instance, unless it was a rare case of a sudden disorder or unknown illness, the owner has missed some warning signs brewing up with their dog over a period of time.
> but that isnt to proportion blame, they may not have been qualified to see the signs, as not all signs are blatant, and if everyone was skilled at this, why would we need trainers and behaviourists?
> 
> but if there were some signs or previous changes of behaviours which they noted and didnt act upon, their could, potentially be a degree of irresponsbility in terms of not changing what and how they did things with the dog, eg, keeping dog on lead.
> ...


In those days there were not behaviourists and most people want a pet dog that fits in with their lifestyle, not a dangerous dog that has to be watched all the time. I think there are only a very few people (most of them seem to post on here!) that either want or are prepared to look after and retrain a dog that bites. Even in this modern day of enlightenment many dogs are put to sleep after one bite (responsibly in my eyes). My vet will always encourage people to take this course if there are children in the family. When I had a small boarding kennels I twice had dogs brought to me while the owners made up their minds what to do after a bite. In both cases the vet advised euthanasia and that is what happened. Sad but sensible.


----------



## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Blitz said:


> In those days there were not behaviourists and most people want a pet dog that fits in with their lifestyle, not a dangerous dog that has to be watched all the time. I think there are only a very few people (most of them seem to post on here!) that either want or are prepared to look after and retrain a dog that bites. Even in this modern day of enlightenment many dogs are put to sleep after one bite (responsibly in my eyes). My vet will always encourage people to take this course if there are children in the family. When I had a small boarding kennels I twice had dogs brought to me while the owners made up their minds what to do after a bite. In both cases the vet advised euthanasia and that is what happened. Sad but sensible.


One mistake from the dog's part warrants euthanasia? What if the bite was caused by repeated torment from a person (child perhaps) and the dog had had enough? What if it was a response from pain? Such as being stood on or a sore part of the dog being touched. Perhaps it was triggered by something the dog had previous issues with. Such as somebody producing an umbrella or lighting a cigarette when the dog could have been abused with those things in the past? I also believe it's a fallacy that once a dog bites it will do it again. A dog might only bite once in its life.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> In those days there were not behaviourists and most people want a pet dog that fits in with their lifestyle, not a dangerous dog that has to be watched all the time. I think there are only a very few people (most of them seem to post on here!) that either want or are prepared to look after and retrain a dog that bites. Even in this modern day of enlightenment many dogs are put to sleep after one bite (responsibly in my eyes). My vet will always encourage people to take this course if there are children in the family. When I had a small boarding kennels I twice had dogs brought to me while the owners made up their minds what to do after a bite. In both cases the vet advised euthanasia and that is what happened. Sad but sensible.


Things have improved today, yes, and whilst the behaviourist route and consequent challenges and changes may be extremely taxing, and often impractical or possible in some cases, the act of simply going to the vet, seeing if your dog has a medical problem that affects behaviour, then if there is so, getting this treated, and thus 'fixing' aggression is indeed quite easy, relatively quick, and does not require much in the way of any challenge or adaptation outside of usually giving pills and exercising and handling according to physical ailment.
Therefore, in my mind, not going down this road before euthanizing as a result of aggression, would not be an act of responsibility.


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Completely disagree. Dogs are NOT irreplaceable! They are living breathing sentient beings just like children! There is no evidence whatsoever to support claims of humans being more important.


"Sentient beings just like children" :blushing::blushing::blushing:
The OP hasnt replied ,so lets see what she has to say.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I do think this forum gives a biased view of behaviour though, you either have people who really care and really work on their dogs even when most people would give up or people who find the forum because their dog had problems.

I don't blame anyone for putting down an aggressive dog but I would rather try behaviourists first.


----------



## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Fluketheduke said:


> "Sentient beings just like children" :blushing::blushing::blushing:
> The OP hasnt replied ,so lets see what she has to say.


Yes they are and MRI scanning has proven that!


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Tails and Trails said:


> Things have improved today, yes, and whilst the behaviourist route and consequent challenges and changes may be extremely taxing, and often impractical or possible in some cases, the act of simply going to the vet, seeing if your dog has a medical problem that affects behaviour, then if there is so, getting this treated, and thus 'fixing' aggression is indeed quite easy, relatively quick, and does not require much in the way of any challenge or adaptation outside of usually giving pills and exercising and handling according to physical ailment.
> Therefore, in my mind, not going down this road before euthanizing as a result of aggression, would not be an act of responsibility.


If someone has taken the vets advice then probably this has been taken into account.



LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> One mistake from the dog's part warrants euthanasia? What if the bite was caused by repeated torment from a person (child perhaps) and the dog had had enough? What if it was a response from pain? Such as being stood on or a sore part of the dog being touched. Perhaps it was triggered by something the dog had previous issues with. Such as somebody producing an umbrella or lighting a cigarette when the dog could have been abused with those things in the past? I also believe it's a fallacy that once a dog bites it will do it again. A dog might only bite once in its life.


The first two are something totally different from an 'aggressive' dog that bites. Your third example is rather ridiculous and how would you ever know what else would set the dog off.
Oddly, most people that get bitten, or even worse their child gets bitten, are not happy about it and the police get involved. Certainly round here there have been a few cases that have gone to court. 2 recently, a small dog was let out of the grandparents car and chased after the grandkids and friends. Goodness knows why but it ended up in court but was accepted as a one off and dog just has to be kept under control. Another one where the dog jumped into the garden to attack annoying child - dog was put down.
It is unfortunate but brats can be as brattish as they like towards a dog but if the dog retaliates it has the ultimate punishment.

Maybe though if people were more responsible about not keeping dogs that have 'just bitten once' there would be less serious dog attacks.
In most family situations it just is not sensible to keep a dog that is likely to bite children and it is not fair to try and get it rehomed either so there is only one responsible thing to do unless the one in a million person turns up to take the dog on.


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

The whole PTS for biting is such an emotive subject...

I do think sometimes out behavior expectations are way too low. I expect my dogs to be able to handle pain, fear, and stress without resorting to using teeth. While I would understand if a dog in pain lashes out, I would still consider that the dog needs work, and I would also take in to account the severity of the bite. Dog who nips over getting quicked while nail trimming does not equal dog who mangles the owner's arm over the same thing. And ideally the dog would not nip at all even if in pain. 
If most functioning adults can manage not to punch people out if they accidentally hurt me or scare them, I don't think it's too much to ask of a dog to not bite even when hurt or scared.

That said, I also think that sometimes we are too quick AND to slow to euthanize dogs for behavior reasons. Some dogs are just wrecks and it's kinder to PTS than to go through long drawn out B-mod. On the flip side, some dogs who bite, even seriously, can be very easily managed, rehabilitated, or both. 
Lunar came to us with a bite history. He climbed up the assess-a-hand and went for the human holding it. He had no issue using teeth on humans to make a point, but it was all learned behavior. Underneath he had a very solid temperament, as well as good bite inhibition and very predictable triggers. He became a very gentle, trusted, loving family pet who also easily passed the therapy dog assessment.

On the flip side there are dogs who have never put teeth on humans who I wouldnt trust with a ten foot pole. There are some just plain old rotten temperaments out there. With all the wonderful, idiot-proof dogs wasting away in shelters, its hard for me to reconcile long, heroic b-mod efforts for a dog who may not ever be very trustworthy. And honestly, you have to wonder sometimes how much keeping a troubled dog alive has to do with human/rescuer ego and how much its about whats really kindest for the dog.
There are far worse fates out there for a troubled dog than humane euthanasia, thats for sure.


----------



## fernlady (Feb 27, 2013)

AngelEyes92 said:


> I have always thought so, but I've heard after so many attacks; "it was unprovoked" it really made me start to question my own beliefs!


The people that normally make these statements haven't got a clue about dogs & body language. I believe there is always a reason, it doesn't matter how subtle


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> If someone has taken the vets advice then probably this has been taken into account.


actually, after thinking about this more this afternoon, i also now think it is sometimes also the responsible approach for owners to consider the behaviour route and consequent lifestyle changes as regards an aggressive dog before opting for euthanasia, as sometimes it is down to poor ownership, training,handling, and management by the owners that the dog has developed the aggression in the first place.
therefore in such cases they owe it to the dog.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Tails and Trails said:


> actually, after thinking about this more this afternoon, i also now think it is sometimes also the responsible approach for owners to consider the behaviour route and consequent lifestyle changes as regards an aggressive dog before opting for euthanasia, as sometimes it is down to poor ownership, training,handling, and management by the owners that the dog has developed the aggression in the first place.
> therefore in such cases they owe it to the dog.


I would disagree with this. Firstly not many people want to make lifestyle changes so that they can keep an aggressive dog and if you have children it would be impossible anyway.

Secondly an owner who has caused the problem in the first place is not going to have the skills or empathy to alter the dog's attitude so by keeping it they have an accident waiting to happen.

As Ouesi said there are so many nice dogs being pts through lack of homes why struggle with an unhappy dog that is dangerous at worst and unpleasant at best to keep.


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

Perfect example of worse fates than humane euthanasia:
https://www.toledoblade.com/Dogs-for-Adoption/2014/03/26/Phoenix-judge-spares-life-of-pit-bull.html


> Municipal Court Judge Deborah Griffin ruled that the dog named Mickey must be neutered, defanged, and microchipped. She declared the dog vicious earlier in the day and could have ordered euthanasia. Defanging means to blunt or remove the canine teeth.
> 
> There would be absolutely no possibility of the animal ever doing this to someone again, Judge Griffin said, adding that the dog must remain in a facility for the rest of his life and cant be adopted.


So the dog has to have his canines removed, and languish in a shelter the rest of his life. At what cost? For whos sake? Would it not be kinder to euthanize the dog?


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I would disagree with this. Firstly not many people want to make lifestyle changes so that they can keep an aggressive dog and if you have children it would be impossible anyway.


Eh... it depends on the issue. Overall I tend to agree, however, some seemingly serious issues are ridiculously easy to solve even for someone with limited experience and resources. My trainer does in-home training, and youd be surprised at how simple some of the issues she deals with are - stuff that seems blatantly obvious to anyone with some idea of dogs but isnt so much when youre new to dogs with all sorts of weird advice going around.



Blitz said:


> Secondly an owner who has caused the problem in the first place is not going to have the skills or empathy to alter the dog's attitude so by keeping it they have an accident waiting to happen.


This part sadly is very often too true 



Blitz said:


> As Ouesi said there are so many nice dogs being pts through lack of homes why struggle with an unhappy dog that is dangerous at worst and unpleasant at best to keep.


This is the one Im so torn on. I keep coming back to dogs like Lunar who was such an awesome dog. But we did pass over all the other dogs in the shelter, without issues, to take on the old, sick, giant breed one with behavior issues. Why? I dont know. I know we were fully prepared to PTS if he didnt respond to b-mod.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I would disagree with this. Firstly not many people want to make lifestyle changes so that they can keep an aggressive dog and if you have children it would be impossible anyway.
> 
> Secondly an owner who has caused the problem in the first place is not going to have the skills or empathy to alter the dog's attitude so by keeping it they have an accident waiting to happen.
> 
> As Ouesi said there are so many nice dogs being pts through lack of homes why struggle with an unhappy dog that is dangerous at worst and unpleasant at best to keep.


it could be very possible to have an aggressive dog and have children, as the aggression may not have any relationship to the children in the dog's own home.
yes, if someone was that incompetent to develop a dog to be aggressive, they are indeed lacking skills, all the more reason they then could gain skills be turning to a behaviourist.
why should a dog be put to sleep by the family it has lived with for years if it is the fault of said family that the dog has become aggressive, and the dog may be able to be managed and/or rehabilitated and the family may be able to gain the necessary skills and the family themselves be safe with the dog?

also, it is true not many people want to make the lifestyle changes necessary to live with an aggressive dog, so therefore will opt for euthanasia.
in which case, that would not be considered an act of responsibility, that would be considered an act of ridding oneself of ones own responsibility if one had caused the problem in the first place, as one does not wish to deal with the consequences (lifestyle changes) of ones own actions (developing an aggressive dog)

i would also feel that such a scenario is not a case of struggling on with an aggressive dog when the same family could go to rescue and adopt a friendly dog whom might be put to sleep, as i would hope that such a family in such a scenario who possessed such a degree of incompetence to cause a dog to become aggressive would not then, after putting a previously friendly dog to sleep due to aggression due to their own mistakes, would not then be to be able to potentially apply the same degree or incompetence and lack of skills again, thus posing a possible risk of turning the next dog aggressive and then requiring that one also to be put down.


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

"Get rid of it" simples.
A dog that bites,is a dog that bites:


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> "Get rid of it" simples.
> A dog that bites,is a dog that bites:


Educate yourself, simples.
All dogs bite.


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Educate yourself, simples.
> All dogs bite.


 You mean like all them big words and loads of them that you use. When in fact can be explained with 4 little words like "get rid of it".lol.
Your so educated,but like most not in the real world.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> "Get rid of it" simples.
> A dog that bites,is a dog that bites:


"dont take any notice" simples.

a forumite that writes simple minded short statements, is a forumite that writes simple minded short statements:


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Fluketheduke said:


> You mean like all them big words and loads of them that you use. When in fact can be explained with 4 little words like "get rid of it".lol.
> Your so educated,but like most not in the real world.


Folks like you give a dog every good reason for them to bite!


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

The last couple posts,havent checked your profiles,not interested.
But you sound like woman.
If your husband bit or punched you on the lip would you retrain him,or get rid of him.simples.
You lot are off your rockers,ermm sorry should i have said that ermm sorry,er.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

During the time I was in Jack Russell rescue, I had a family contact me wanting me to rehome a youngish JR male. He had attacked and bitten a five year old child. The dog was sitting in front of the fire, the child walked into the room and he flew at her face and bit her.

A week later, the family were sitting outside a pub having a quiet drink, the dog was with them and when two kids walked past with their Parents, the dog flew at one of them and tried to bite her in the back.

I advised these people to have him put to sleep. I didn't suggest a Behaviourist or Trainer because I don't believe anyone could have guaranteed that this dog wouldn't bite another child.

I do believe some dogs are beyond help and some risks just should not be taken.


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> The last couple posts,havent checked your profiles,not interested.
> But you sound like woman.
> If your husband bit or punched you on the lip would you retrain him,or get rid of him.simples.
> You lot are off your rockers,ermm sorry should i have said that ermm sorry,er.


Extra points for the sexist comments in addition to the callous and ignorant ones.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> The last couple posts,havent checked your profiles,not interested.
> But you sound like woman.
> If your husband bit or punched you on the lip would you retrain him,or get rid of him.simples.
> You lot are off your rockers,ermm sorry should i have said that ermm sorry,er.


me jane

you tarzin


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'd love to say this guy is clearly a troll but sadly I've met real people like that. Either way, the best response is just to ignore him.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> I'd love to say this guy is clearly a troll but sadly I've met real people like that. Either way, the best response is just to ignore him.


Perhaps it would be beneficial for the entire forum if they were to simply have the mad dog banned?:sneaky2:


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Sweety said:


> During the time I was in Jack Russell rescue, I had a family contact me wanting me to rehome a youngish JR male. He had attacked and bitten a five year old child. The dog was sitting in front of the fire, the child walked into the room and he flew at her face and bit her.
> 
> A week later, the family were sitting outside a pub having a quiet drink, the dog was with them and when two kids walked past with their Parents, the dog flew at one of them and tried to bite her in the back.
> 
> ...


i agree with this one, assuming a medical solution had been ruled out


----------



## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I would disagree with this. Firstly not many people want to make lifestyle changes so that they can keep an aggressive dog and if you have children it would be impossible anyway.
> 
> Secondly an owner who has caused the problem in the first place is not going to have the skills or empathy to alter the dog's attitude so by keeping it they have an accident waiting to happen.
> 
> As Ouesi said there are so many nice dogs being pts through lack of homes why struggle with an unhappy dog that is dangerous at worst and unpleasant at best to keep.


Personally I think it's a much bigger problem when people know there's an issue with a dog and don't do anything at all to deal with it.

I have to assume for everybody's wellbeing that Brock hasn't bitten because of lack of opportunity, not because he wouldn't, so I make sure he's never in a position where he's likely to want to and able to. If I didn't think I could do that for whatever reason then I would have him PTS.

He's four times had dogs running up and biting him out of the blue, 3 of them I know have done it more than once before him, yet they're still offlead, unmuzzled and have owners saying things like, oh he's so nice at home or he can sometimes be a bit funny with male/black/big dogs - they're the kind of owner that's going to have a problem, because they do nothing to prevent it happening and no work on the issue at all. I know I'm conflating human aggression with dog aggression there, but it's people who ignore things that cause problems with both, not people who acknowledge the problem and try to get help to deal with it.

He is a nice dog, with us in the house and with people he knows well or out with no-one around, he's a lovely, friendly, happy, playful and affectionate dog. That's why I'm there trying to manage him and work on his behavioural issues...I'd imagine that's why other people do too...because alongside the problems, he is still a nice dog - it's not one or the other really.


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> Hi Angel,kind of strange the way you have worded it.
> Look,if it was your dad that got attacked by your dog and you have concerncs about your dog attacking your new baby.
> Play safe and get rid of the dog now,you can replace the dog,but not a child.
> Hope every thing goes ok.


This was my first post in the thread,what got the cranks so upset was the words "get rid of ".
Should of put PTS 
I believe i am correct but will have to see if the OP responds.Hope i am wrong,but hey no big thing.
Sure brought the bullshi**ers to light though.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> This was my first post in the thread,what got the cranks so upset was the words "get rid of ".
> Should of put PTS
> I believe i am correct but will have to see if the OP responds.Hope i am wrong,but hey no big thing.
> Sure brought the bullshi**ers to light though.


tarzin uses his hand


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> I'd love to say this guy is clearly a troll but sadly *I've met real people like that.* Either way, the best response is just to ignore him.


I have too 
Theyre the same ones who dump hunting dogs who are past their prime out on some deserted back-country road. Ive found myself having a conversation with one of these yahoos where Im literally trying to convince him to at least shoot the dog next time. Heaven knows it would be a more humane death 

Like I said, its an emotive subject - one that IMHO deserves to be treated with respect. Especially given that this is a dog lovers forum.

Fluketheduke, in case it wasnt clear, your comments are hugely disrespectful to dogs in general, and to members of this forum, some of whom may have had the experience of struggling mightily with the very difficult and personal decision to euthanize a troubled dog. Youre entitled to your opinion, and youre not alone in it, but there is a way to present said opinion gracefully and compassionately.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

ouesi said:


> I have too
> Theyre the same ones who dump hunting dogs who are past their prime out on some deserted back-country road. Ive found myself having a conversation with one of these yahoos where Im literally trying to convince him to at least shoot the dog next time. Heaven knows it would be a more humane death
> 
> Like I said, its an emotive subject - one that IMHO deserves to be treated with respect. Especially given that this is a dog lovers forum.
> ...


tarzin no understand


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

So after all that you agree with me.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> So after all that you agree with me.


no, tarzin no after anyone

me jane


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> So after all that you agree with me.


No I dont. Read my posts again. Google the big words if you have to 

Besides, Im just a mere woman who doesnt live in the real world. I wouldnt have thought that my agreement is of any importance to you.


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

This is so easy.
The OP is saying:
My dog attacked my dad and she is worried about her new born baby yet you stupid idiots are making excuses up why she should not get rid of it.
Is it that hard to see.


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> This is so easy.
> The OP is saying:
> My dog attacked my dad and she is worried about her new born baby yet you stupid idiots are making excuses up why she should not get rid of it.
> Is it that hard to see.


Thats not how the OP reads to me at all. It was her friends dad who was attacked and it was not the OPs dog who attacked him.
The incident had nothing to do with the OP other than it got her to thinking about why dogs bite and if there is always a reason.



AngelEyes92 said:


> Anyway, after one of my friends' dad got attacked by a dog, she said "it attacked him for absolutely no reason. He was just standing there stroking a puppy and talking to it's owner when this dog (the attacking) run from nowhere and jumped up and bit him" The dog did leave some nasty looking wounds (friends dad is absolutely fine, some stitches but went home the same day)
> 
> It just got me wondering- Would a dog REALLY attack for no reason? I personally have the belief that there's always a reason behind a dog attack- possibly the little puppy (unrelated to the attacking dog) in this case?


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

Lets see if OP responds.


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2014)

Like playing chess with a pigeon....


----------



## Fluketheduke (Feb 3, 2014)

Well if i am wrong its no big deal nothing lost.BUT,if she took your advice .


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Fluketheduke said:


> Lets see if OP responds.


How about you re-read what OP said... a few times. Because you clearly didn't read the post well enough to understand what was being said and what the OP asked :001_rolleyes:


----------



## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Like playing chess with a pigeon....


Oh come on now ouesi, there is no need to be insulting... what have pigeons ever done to you? rrr: :ihih:


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Nah there is a slight glimmer of intelligence there, maybe that raven who learned to do all the puzzles in a sequence.


----------



## Kirstyrebe (Jan 20, 2014)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Completely disagree. Dogs are NOT irreplaceable! They are living breathing sentient beings just like children! There is no evidence whatsoever to support claims of humans being more important.


I have to disagree! Yes I love my dog and I love animals, but I carried my children so if I had to pick it would be my children they are irreplaceable


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Tails and Trails said:


> it could be very possible to have an aggressive dog and have children, as the aggression may not have any relationship to the children in the dog's own home.
> yes, if someone was that incompetent to develop a dog to be aggressive, they are indeed lacking skills, all the more reason they then could gain skills be turning to a behaviourist.
> why should a dog be put to sleep by the family it has lived with for years if it is the fault of said family that the dog has become aggressive, and the dog may be able to be managed and/or rehabilitated and the family may be able to gain the necessary skills and the family themselves be safe with the dog?
> 
> ...


We did have a very aggressive dog for 11 years, got him as a young pup and got him specifically as a guard dog. He was Akita x GSD. I had teenage kids at the time who he was just great with but he didn't live in the house. He was an aggressive dog, just that. He wasn't made that way, it was just what he was.

We managed just great with him, kids were old enough to be sensible with him.

We got this dog cos my stables were broken into 3 times in a short period of time, stuff stolen were generators and horse equipment and all expensive stuff.We even had horse rugs taken off the horses in stables in the middle of winter. 1 of my horses had a hock slashed, not fatal but cost me thousands with the vet...a nasty thing to happen...so we got the dog and once he was full size we never had anybody break in again...and the dog warned plenty people who would just turn up to the farm.

Its takes guts to PTS any animal and I think even when some dogs etc should be euthanised many people just can't do it and so keep on going....sort of flogging a dead horse.

Our dog was aggressive but not out of control


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

If I walked my Akita x GSD around the town or to the beach or just take him for a walk, he would not have attacked or bitten anybody and he was very good with children, particularly small ones and babies.


----------



## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Like playing chess with a pigeon....


Respect for that phrase. I may steal it.


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Respect for that phrase. I may steal it.


Have also stored it for future use!! :thumbup:


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> We did have a very aggressive dog for 11 years, got him as a young pup and got him specifically as a guard dog. He was Akita x GSD. I had teenage kids at the time who he was just great with but he didn't live in the house. He was an aggressive dog, just that. He wasn't made that way, it was just what he was.
> 
> We managed just great with him, kids were old enough to be sensible with him.
> 
> ...


Assuming I have understood your post properly, you bought a dog with 2 breeds of a guarding nature, then trained that guarding nature to come to the fore to protect your property? Thus, I would surmise he didnt just become that way, as you allowed and encouraged that aggressive territorial side of his nature to express itself, but in a controlled trained fashion? Similar to what police forces do?
In which case, that would be a good example of what I said in my post which you quoted, in that it is perfectly possible to live with a dog that has 'aggressive tendencies' and manage a lifestyle quite well and have your children be safe, and this, therefore, is a responsible action.

However, this is a different scenario to the one I was discussing with Blitz, whereby I disagreed with him in the sense that if a family buy a dog that is friendly, and he becomes aggressive due to their own incompetence or mismanagement, I would not regard it as an act of responsibility then to kill the dog when it was their own fault, with first making the effort to rule out medical solutions, and to also rule out behaviour solutions which would require them to make the effort to adapt their lifestyle according the the behaviour programme, as to do so would be the responsible thing to do, as responsibility involves dealing with the consequences of ones own actions


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Fluketheduke said:


> "Get rid of it" simples.
> A dog that bites,is a dog that bites:


I take it you are being rude on purpose BUT I do think you are probably echoing the majority of dog owners in the country. this forum is not made up of average dog owners and sometimes the advice given over aggressive dogs is more than 

There seem to be 3 sorts of people. Those that will keep a dog regardless but will work on the problem, those that will keep a dog regardless and ignore the problem and those that agree with you and will 'get rid' of a dog that bites. Problem is 'get rid' now often means shoving the poor thing in a rescue kennel to languish its life away in misery or to be rehomed inappropriately where it can do a lot of damage - as in the fairly recent high profile case of a child being killed by a rescue dog. There is only one sure way of solving the problem and that is to PTS and I do believe it is what most responsible dog owners will do in spite of the fact that there are a small minority of people that are prepared to risk working with an aggressive dog and are sure they will never let it bite anyone.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I take it you are being rude on purpose BUT I do think you are probably echoing the majority of dog owners in the country. this forum is not made up of average dog owners and sometimes the advice given over aggressive dogs is more than
> 
> There seem to be 3 sorts of people. Those that will keep a dog regardless but will work on the problem, those that will keep a dog regardless and ignore the problem and those that agree with you and will 'get rid' of a dog that bites. Problem is 'get rid' now often means shoving the poor thing in a rescue kennel to languish its life away in misery or to be rehomed inappropriately where it can do a lot of damage - as in the fairly recent high profile case of a child being killed by a rescue dog. There is only one sure way of solving the problem and that is to PTS and I do believe it is what most responsible dog owners will do in spite of the fact that there are a small minority of people that are prepared to risk working with an aggressive dog and are sure they will never let it bite anyone.


Your analogy about rescues doesnt necessarily fit.
as many rescues will train and rehabilitate such dogs, many rescues will put down such dogs, and many rescues will not accept such dogs for rehoming.

also, if its the case im thinking of, i recall that being a pound dog, not a rescue dog? i think, at the time, i posted much in regards to how this pound where completely in error regarding their procedures?

your second group of people are the ones i refer to that mess the dog up by being numpties, then take the irresponsible decision to "get rid" (put down), as they refuse to take the responsibility of their action by seeing a behaviorist and exploring the possibilities of the dog getting better thru lifestyle, training, and management changes, thus maintaining the dog to have a life of potential safety around all, including children, depending upon the nature of the problem

in my experience, i come across few people, in this day and age, that simply express the rationale "if it bites, it bites, get rid".
I think society has moved on from such attitudes, although they do exist.
I think society has gained a more rounded awareness of such situations, therefore many conversations I have with people also involve comments such as 'it depends upon the specific situation' and that 'some owners are right idiots who mess their dogs up'


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2014)

Fluketheduke said:


> Well if i am wrong its no big deal nothing lost.BUT,if she took your advice .


1) You are wrong, read the OP.
2) I havent given the OP any advice. I dont think anyone has. It was not the OPs dog who bit the friends father.

Pigeon chess - no matter what you do, the pigeon is still going to knock over all the pieces, poop on the board, and then strut around like he won. 



Blitz said:


> I take it you are being rude on purpose BUT I do think you are probably echoing the majority of dog owners in the country. this forum is not made up of average dog owners and sometimes the advice given over aggressive dogs is more than
> 
> There seem to be 3 sorts of people. Those that will keep a dog regardless but will work on the problem, those that will keep a dog regardless and ignore the problem and those that agree with you and will 'get rid' of a dog that bites. *Problem is 'get rid' now often means shoving the poor thing in a rescue kennel to languish its life away in misery or to be rehomed inappropriately where it can do a lot of damage* - as in the fairly recent high profile case of a child being killed by a rescue dog. There is only one sure way of solving the problem and that is to PTS and I do believe it is what most responsible dog owners will do in spite of the fact that there are a small minority of people that are prepared to risk working with an aggressive dog and are sure they will never let it bite anyone.


Exactly - what does get rid of mean? Around here it often means take the dog out back and shoot it (Karen Pryor was not being inflammatory when she titled her book Dont Shoot the Dog.) 
Or worse, the dog is dumped: driven out to some back country road, let out in to the woods, and left. These dogs mostly die of exposure, predation, and motor vehicles. A precious few survive for a few years and make up the feral dog population we have around here. Feral dogs dont last very long either. Food is hard to come by and diseases like heart worm are prevalent.
Someone who can so easily get rid of a dog is not going to pay the fee to turn the dog in to a shelter, or pay the vet bill to have the dog humanely euthanized.

Id rather see folks educated in how to prevent problems in the first place, and how to solve and manage the easier issues.


----------



## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

ouesi said:


> 1)
> 
> Exactly - what does get rid of mean? Around here it often means take the dog out back and shoot it


Around here `get rid of` often means advertising the dog on some free ad website with a `sad sale due to circumstances ........` tag line


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Agree there is usually a reason, but that doesn't make it right or safe. If you have a dog that was hurt or frightened say by someone wearing glasses so it goes for anyone with glasses then the dog has its reasons but the person would not have done anything.

Some people have the circumstances to manage an aggressive dog, others don't. One of my uncles lived alone on a remote farm the dog was perfectly safe for him but would have attacked anyone else, when family visited we had to stay in car & sound the horn until he came out and chained the dog up. It worked for him, particularly as it stopped anyone unwanted calling in such as the tax man  It would not have been safe in a "normal" family home


----------



## korrok (Sep 4, 2013)

Tails and Trails said:


> Your analogy about rescues doesnt necessarily fit.
> as many rescues will train and rehabilitate such dogs, many rescues will put down such dogs, and many rescues will not accept such dogs for rehoming.
> 
> also, if its the case im thinking of, i recall that being a pound dog, not a rescue dog? i think, at the time, i posted much in regards to how this pound where completely in error regarding their procedures?
> ...


The last rescue I fostered for (nearly 10 years ago I think) was a greyhound rescue and you're right, if a dog had aggression issues it was pts, not rehabilitated. There were endless dogs looking for a spot with a foster home and not enough homes to go around, spending £££ to rehabilitate a dog which then has to struggle to find a special home and is always technically a potential risk while other dogs die that might have had that kennel/foster place..it's a hard choice.

I dealt with one of them personally, an exceptionally large male ex-racer. He seemed really lovely and soppy (if markedly more, mm, "dense" than the usual ex-racer), and I'd had him in the house about 3 days when I was laying on the couch watching TV, head propped on my hand. He walked up towards me, I said something like "hey boy" and he took a snap right at my face. I ducked back but I was alarmed by how sudden it was. Then he just stood there, staring at me. I called up the rescue, the owner admitted I was his 2nd foster home and he'd tried to attack the last foster too, and unfortunately that night he was taken and pts. My only take away from that incident was "why the hell was I not told he was a potential biter". But there you go...


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Tails and Trails said:


> Assuming I have understood your post properly, you bought a dog with 2 breeds of a guarding nature, then trained that guarding nature to come to the fore to protect your property? Thus, I would surmise he didnt just become that way, as you allowed and encouraged that aggressive territorial side of his nature to express itself, but in a controlled trained fashion? Similar to what police forces do?
> In which case, that would be a good example of what I said in my post which you quoted, in that it is perfectly possible to live with a dog that has 'aggressive tendencies' and manage a lifestyle quite well and have your children be safe, and this, therefore, is a responsible action.
> 
> However, this is a different scenario to the one I was discussing with Blitz, whereby I disagreed with him in the sense that if a family buy a dog that is friendly, and he becomes aggressive due to their own incompetence or mismanagement, I would not regard it as an act of responsibility then to kill the dog when it was their own fault, with first making the effort to rule out medical solutions, and to also rule out behaviour solutions which would require them to make the effort to adapt their lifestyle according the the behaviour programme, as to do so would be the responsible thing to do, as responsibility involves dealing with the consequences of ones own actions


Our dog was bred accidentally by my friend who bred and showed Akitas but had a house pet GSD.

There were 15 pups in the litter but only 7 made it to 8 weeks to be sold. By the time the pups were 12 months old, ours was the only 1 left and the other 6 had been PTS for aggressive behaviour.1 even bit the dog warden.

We didn't train the dog to be aggressive and he lived in the house til he was 6 months old so was socialised well with other dogs cats and kids and general noise and hustle and bustle.

Had I wanted a house pet, I would never have picked this breeding. Also, my kids were young teens when we got him even though he was exceptionally patient with babies and small children.... contact with these was only very short term anyway.. I think we could have managed him in the house but wouldn't have wanted to, plus, he was much happier in his own space and outside, probably cos he had such a thick coat he got too hot indoors.

This dog was a really good dog we all missed him when he died aged 11 but he was never going to be a suitable dog for an average family I don't think but my home circumstances meant he could be accommodated.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

If we had not been able to manage with this dog I would never have re homed him or expect someone else to mop up after me...and he would have been PTS.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Tails and Trails said:


> Your analogy about rescues doesnt necessarily fit.
> as many rescues will train and rehabilitate such dogs, many rescues will put down such dogs, and many rescues will not accept such dogs for rehoming.
> 
> also, if its the case im thinking of, i recall that being a pound dog, not a rescue dog? i think, at the time, i posted much in regards to how this pound where completely in error regarding their procedures?
> ...


Most people want a pet dog to fit in with their lifestyle, not change their lifestyle to suit the quirks of their pet dog.

You are right, many rescues will not accept dogs with behaviourial problems. Some will attempt to overcome the problems but can they ever guarantee it, is it safe to rehome the dog, who would be liable if it does bite someone if it was rehomed because it was a biter. As for the ones that pts , would it not be more responsible and kinder on the dog if the original owner did the deed instead of the poor dog suffering in kennels while the decision is made by the rescue.
I actually think that the availability of putting dogs in rescue discourages owners from being responsible - it is too easy to 'get rid'.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> Agree there is usually a reason, but that doesn't make it right or safe. If you have a dog that was hurt or frightened say by someone wearing glasses so it goes for anyone with glasses then the dog has its reasons but the person would not have done anything.
> 
> Some people have the circumstances to manage an aggressive dog, others don't. One of my uncles lived alone on a remote farm the dog was perfectly safe for him but would have attacked anyone else, when family visited we had to stay in car & sound the horn until he came out and chained the dog up. It worked for him, particularly as it stopped anyone unwanted calling in such as the tax man  It would not have been safe in a "normal" family home


[email protected] anyone unwanted like the tax man.lol


----------



## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Kirstyrebe said:


> I have to disagree! Yes I love my dog and I love animals, but I carried my children so if I had to pick it would be my children they are irreplaceable


Whenever some disgusting scumbag abuses a non-human there are always cries of their punishment not being severe enough. There is plenty of hatred about non-humans being used in laboratories. People hate how non-humans are considered property in the eyes of the law. People also hate how dogs and other pets are treated as disposable commodities. Those things will NEVER change unless society stops thinking of them as being inferior. My dogs are very much my babies (I have no intentions of having children) and nobody is going to tell me that they are lesser beings just because they aren't human.

To those of you that think humans are superior. I suggest you go and spend a couple of weeks in the Antarctic or in the Australian outback. Those should be humbling enough experiences for you.

I am not trying to get anybody's backs up. I am trying to prove a point and that is if you want things to improve for non-humans then you've got to stop thinking of them as being 'inferior'.


----------



## Kirstyrebe (Jan 20, 2014)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Whenever some disgusting scumbag abuses a non-human there are always cries of their punishment not being severe enough. There is plenty of hatred about non-humans being used in laboratories. People hate how non-humans are considered property in the eyes of the law. People also hate how dogs and other pets are treated as disposable commodities. Those things will NEVER change unless society stops thinking of them as being inferior. My dogs are very much my babies (I have no intentions of having children) and nobody is going to tell me that they are lesser beings just because they aren't human.
> 
> To those of you that think humans are superior. I suggest you go and spend a couple of weeks in the Antarctic or in the Australian outback. Those should be humbling enough experiences for you.
> 
> I am not trying to get anybody's backs up. I am trying to prove a point and that is if you want things to improve for non-humans then you've got to stop thinking of them as being 'inferior'.


So do you eat non-humans also known to us at meat? Serious question! As you have no children for what ever your reason you will never understand where I am coming from! It's lovely that's you think of your dogs as your babies and Ronnie is my 3rd baby but I also remember he is a dog! THIS is where some of us humans go wrong because they are treated like children by those that don't have children and they go all the wrong way about it! I love Ronnie but he is a DOG not a child.


----------



## Kirstyrebe (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm also all for animal rights etc, but when it comes to diseases such as cancer etc then I'm in agreement on testing!


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2014)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Whenever some disgusting scumbag abuses a non-human there are always cries of their punishment not being severe enough. There is plenty of hatred about non-humans being used in laboratories. People hate how non-humans are considered property in the eyes of the law. People also hate how dogs and other pets are treated as disposable commodities. Those things will NEVER change unless society stops thinking of them as being inferior. My dogs are very much my babies (I have no intentions of having children) and nobody is going to tell me that they are lesser beings just because they aren't human.
> 
> To those of you that think humans are superior. I suggest you go and spend a couple of weeks in the Antarctic or in the Australian outback. Those should be humbling enough experiences for you.
> 
> I am not trying to get anybody's backs up. I am trying to prove a point and that is if you want things to improve for non-humans then you've got to stop thinking of them as being 'inferior'.


Nobody is saying dogs are inferior. 
Lets put it this way. My dogs are more important to me than say a foster dog. I believe in fostering, I work with rescue a lot, but I will not take on a foster that would potentially endanger my own dogs. Not because I think the foster dog is inferior to my own dogs, but because my first responsibility is to my own dogs.

In the same way, I would prioritize my responsibility to my children.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> [email protected] anyone unwanted like the tax man.lol


He was a bit err odd, not like any of his brothers and sisters who were hard working law abiding country bods. Didn't pay council tax for years, or any tax for that matter, they tried to serve writs but gave up because of the dog naughty man


----------



## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Kirstyrebe said:


> I'm also all for animal rights etc, but when it comes to diseases such as cancer etc then I'm in agreement on testing!


Why not test on criminals? Why inflict horrendous pain and suffering on INNOCENT non-human animals?


----------



## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Nobody is saying dogs are inferior.
> Lets put it this way. My dogs are more important to me than say a foster dog. I believe in fostering, I work with rescue a lot, but I will not take on a foster that would potentially endanger my own dogs. Not because I think the foster dog is inferior to my own dogs, but because my first responsibility is to my own dogs.
> 
> In the same way, I would prioritize my responsibility to my children.


They are saying that dogs are inferior. Here is the definition of inferior. When somebody states they would place a human over a dog they are saying the dog is inferior. If they say the dog is just as important as a human then they are saying the dog is an equal.

Like I said if you want harsher sentences for the vile entities that are cruel to non-humans then humans need to perceive non-humans as being just as important as people.


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2014)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> They are saying that dogs are inferior. Here is the definition of inferior. When somebody states they would place a human over a dog they are saying the dog is inferior. If they say the dog is just as important as a human then they are saying the dog is an equal.


Thank you so much for the vocabulary lesson. How could you tell English is not my first language? 

May I return the favor and give you a reading comprehension lesson? 
Or maybe I'll just ask you to read my post again. 

I said I would put my own dogs over other dogs that are not mine. Does that mean I view the other dogs as inferior to mine, or does it simply mean that I'm prioritizing who I'm responsible for?


----------



## Kirstyrebe (Jan 20, 2014)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Why not test on criminals? Why inflict horrendous pain and suffering on INNOCENT non-human animals?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Wow, this thread has taken a turn around.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Whenever some disgusting scumbag abuses a non-human there are always cries of their punishment not being severe enough. There is plenty of hatred about non-humans being used in laboratories. People hate how non-humans are considered property in the eyes of the law. People also hate how dogs and other pets are treated as disposable commodities. Those things will NEVER change unless society stops thinking of them as being inferior. My dogs are very much my babies (I have no intentions of having children) and nobody is going to tell me that they are lesser beings just because they aren't human.
> 
> To those of you that think humans are superior. I suggest you go and spend a couple of weeks in the Antarctic or in the Australian outback. Those should be humbling enough experiences for you.
> 
> I am not trying to get anybody's backs up. I am trying to prove a point and that is if you want things to improve for non-humans then you've got to stop thinking of them as being 'inferior'.


You have managed to get my back up.

My animals are my life. I have always had animals, horses, dogs, cattle , sheep. I cannot imagine a life without them. But they are animals, they are not as important in the scheme of things as the life of my worst human enemy. However much I disliked or even hated someone I would have to choose their life over even my own much loved animals.

to even consider that they are equal to a child is very scary.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> You have managed to get my back up.
> 
> My animals are my life. I have always had animals, horses, dogs, cattle , sheep. I cannot imagine a life without them. But they are animals, they are not as important in the scheme of things as the life of my worst human enemy. However much I disliked or even hated someone I would have to choose their life over even my own much loved animals.
> 
> to even consider that they are equal to a child is very scary.


oh, i dunno, i can think of a few humans that are lower than animals


----------



## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Blitz said:


> You have managed to get my back up.
> 
> My animals are my life. I have always had animals, horses, dogs, cattle , sheep. I cannot imagine a life without them. But they are animals, they are not as important in the scheme of things as the life of my worst human enemy. However much I disliked or even hated someone I would have to choose their life over even my own much loved animals.
> 
> to even consider that they are equal to a child is very scary.


WOW! You would put the life of a violent criminal over an animal that you supposedly love. WOW!

It's no wonder that the revolting pieces of excrement that go around slashing horses, poisoning cats and torturing dogs get paltry sentences when there are attitudes like that around! It's also of little wonder when a would be burglar or rapist gets asked if they want to press charges for a dog (protecting its family) biting them.

For the record I am saying that my dogs are equally as important as a child. How scary is that?

And humans are animals too which is why I say non-human animals.

Sorry, but your attitude sickens me.


----------



## Kirstyrebe (Jan 20, 2014)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> WOW! You would put the life of a violent criminal over an animal that you supposedly love. WOW!
> 
> It's no wonder that the revolting pieces of excrement that go around slashing horses, poisoning cats and torturing dogs get paltry sentences when there are attitudes like that around! It's also of little wonder when a would be burglar or rapist gets asked if they want to press charges for a dog (protecting its family) biting them.
> 
> ...


No non human animal is equal to a child, that's just a ridicules comment!


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> WOW! You would put the life of a violent criminal over an animal that you supposedly love. WOW!
> 
> It's no wonder that the revolting pieces of excrement that go around slashing horses, poisoning cats and torturing dogs get paltry sentences when there are attitudes like that around! It's also of little wonder when a would be burglar or rapist gets asked if they want to press charges for a dog (protecting its family) biting them.
> 
> ...


maybe you wouldn't think that way if you had a child or someone close to you did.

Pets are very important to all of us but children always come first.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> WOW! You would put the life of a violent criminal over an animal that you supposedly love. WOW!
> 
> It's no wonder that the revolting pieces of excrement that go around slashing horses, poisoning cats and torturing dogs get paltry sentences when there are attitudes like that around! It's also of little wonder when a would be burglar or rapist gets asked if they want to press charges for a dog (protecting its family) biting them.
> 
> ...


How scary is that. It is bloody terrifying, ridiculous and totally inhuman.
I hope you are young and will grow up.


----------



## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

too much mock outrage going on here, from both quarters


----------



## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

How do threads ALWAYS turn into children vs dogs?


----------



## Kirstyrebe (Jan 20, 2014)

Pupcakes said:


> How do threads ALWAYS turn into children vs dogs?


Lol I was thinking the same on this thread


----------



## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

"Hi everyone, I'd like advice on how to stop my dog peeing inside"

*20 pages later...
*

"I dont care what you say, children will _always_ come before dogs! "


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Wow, just wow



Kirstyrebe said:


> *So do you eat non-humans also known to us at meat?* Serious question! As you have no children for what ever your reason you will never understand where I am coming from! It's lovely that's you think of your dogs as your babies and Ronnie is my 3rd baby but I also remember he is a dog! THIS is where some of us humans go wrong because they are treated like children by those that don't have children and they go all the wrong way about it! I love Ronnie but he is a DOG not a child.


I see they've conveniently skirted around that question  from my run-ins with this particular member I have come to the conclusion that they are still very young & naive


----------



## Kirstyrebe (Jan 20, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> Wow, just wow
> 
> I see they've conveniently skirted around that question  from my run-ins with this particular member I have come to the conclusion that they are still very young & naive


I thought that was a fair question!? I wasn't trying to be pedantic. 
I have seen a perticular thread it's pretty much repeting itself with the same argument


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2014)

Kirstyrebe said:


> I thought that was a fair question!? I wasn't trying to be pedantic.
> I have seen a perticular thread it's pretty much repeting itself with the same argument


Its a very fair question, and I would bet simplysardonic thinks it is too. I too noticed LurcherGreyoundGirl has avoided answering it. 
I think the wow was regarding the thread turn, not your question to LurcherGreyoundGirl.


----------



## Kirstyrebe (Jan 20, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Its a very fair question, and I would bet simplysardonic thinks it is too. I too noticed LurcherGreyoundGirl has avoided answering it.
> I think the wow was regarding the thread turn, not your question to LurcherGreyoundGirl.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion 'freedom of speech' and all that good stuff lol

Oh yeah got that with the 'wow' I was referring to lurcher


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Whenever some disgusting scumbag abuses a non-human there are always cries of their punishment not being severe enough. There is plenty of hatred about non-humans being used in laboratories. People hate how non-humans are considered property in the eyes of the law. People also hate how dogs and other pets are treated as disposable commodities. Those things will NEVER change unless society stops thinking of them as being inferior. My dogs are very much my babies (I have no intentions of having children) and nobody is going to tell me that they are lesser beings just because they aren't human.
> 
> To those of you that think humans are superior. I suggest you go and spend a couple of weeks in the Antarctic or in the Australian outback. Those should be humbling enough experiences for you.
> 
> I am not trying to get anybody's backs up. I am trying to prove a point and that is if you want things to improve for non-humans then you've got to stop thinking of them as being 'inferior'.


Oh, undoubtedly, we all love our pets and want the very best we can get for them, that's why we're here really.

I do think though, you have got yourself worked up to the degree where you're not talking much sense.

I have owned dogs for the past forty years and I also have two Sons. You cannot make a comparison between dogs and humans. We love them both, but in totally different ways.

I adore my dogs, always have, but I never lose sight of the fact that they're animals. That doesn't mean that they have low value to me, quite the opposite, but never would I have prioritised a dog over one of my Sons.

Criminals or those who would hurt animals are a whole different subject. You really can't say "Oh well, some people are horrible, therefore animals are better". Of course animals are better than the lowlife who would abuse them, but that doesn't mean that an animal has an equal value to a human being.


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Closing this for a read through


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Reopening after removing some of the comments but as a warning to everyone - keep this on topic and don't diverge into being nasty towards one another just because you have differing points of view.


----------



## koolchick (Apr 5, 2011)

I think there would always be some reason for the dog even if it doesn't make sense to us. I once had a dog we got at 8 month old and had until he had to be PTS due to old age at 16. He was so timid at first as he had obviously been treated badly in some way. He was friendly and good dog but all his life he didn't like certain male voices and anyone wearing caps. Now I don't know for sure but I guess someone with a cap on had done something to him before we got him and he thought everyone with caps on would hurt him. We made sure he was never able to get to anyone wearing a cap, but I guess if he had gone for someone wearing a cap it could of been called an attack for no reason if the person was being friendly to him. Yet to the dog there is a reason.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

koolchick said:


> I think there would always be some reason for the dog even if it doesn't make sense to us. I once had a dog we got at 8 month old and had until he had to be PTS due to old age at 16. He was so timid at first as he had obviously been treated badly in some way. He was friendly and good dog but all his life he didn't like certain male voices and anyone wearing caps. Now I don't know for sure but I guess someone with a cap on had done something to him before we got him and he thought everyone with caps on would hurt him. We made sure he was never able to get to anyone wearing a cap, but I guess if he had gone for someone wearing a cap it could of been called an attack for no reason if the person was being friendly to him. Yet to the dog there is a reason.


my dogs get nervous when people wear hats, particularly caps. Think maybe its cos they can't see a person's eyes so well.

Bullmastiff has very poor eyesight anyway and relies on smell but she doesn't like it if she can't get a good view of eyes. Lurcher gets nervy too but more cos the mastiff is. Dakkie just likes to join in with a good all round yapping session.


----------

