# troubled cat.



## tomig (Aug 13, 2014)

so penelope is about 3 years old and she has an additude problem. Being siamese this is expected right? Well she is prone to peeing in various places around my house. I have a very small place so it really mainly in the kitchen her litter box is there and every thing. Ive ruled out the possibility of it being health related and i believe it is strickly additude. To make matters worse ill soon be moving a good two hours away, where ill be going there will be other animals, 2 cats and 3 dogs, which i already know will be a problem with her. Id really like it if i didnt have leave her behind i dont want to abandon her. If i could get any kind of help to deal with this situation it would be great


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

Hi is her litter box near to her food? Some cats won't use a litter box in the same room as their food bowl. 

Have you tried making a few changes and seeing if the behaviour changes e.g. trying different types of litter? 

Also I would clean the places where she weed with simple solution (or something similar) to get rid of the odour.

If you think it's stressed related you can give her Zylkene, which I understand works well. It's not a chemical but a natural supplement. 

I'd clean the odour first and make one change at a time so that you know what's causing the behaviour.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi Tomig, welcome to Pet Forum

I agree it is really important to get this anti-social behaviour sorted out before you move. Whether you decide to take her with you, or to rehome her, the fact is no-one is likely to want to adopt a cat who currently has a house soiling problem.

I assume you would be open about her toiletting problems to any prospective adopter, because to be any less than straightforward would be of no help to your cat at all.  The unresolved house soiling problem would soon come to light in the new adopter's home and your cat would either be returned to you forthwith, or the poor thing passed on yet again. 

Can you tell us whether your cat uses the litter tray at all? e.g. does she poo in it? does she pee in it sometimes?

How many trays do you have? It is important to provide at least 2 trays for one cat, as many cats like to pee in one tray and poo in another. Instinctive behaviour of very fastidious animals.

I agree with ALR, site litter boxes well away from her food and water. 
Put the two litter boxes in different parts of your home.

Try different litters - e.g. use one that is fine and sand-like. Make sure it is a clumping litter, as with non-clumping the whole litter box gets quickly contaminated requiring a complete change of litter every 2 or 3 days.

I use Worlds Best litter for my cats, ([email protected] or Zooplus) and they like it. If you prefer using a clay litter then try Golden Grey (Zooplus), but not any other make of clay as they are dusty and do not cover smells.

If you are using covered trays, offer her an open tray.

She may possible have mild cystitis (it can't be diagnosed with a urine test by the vet). Make sure you don't feed her dry food - feed only wet food as this will keep her fluid levels up and dilute her urine making it more comfortable for her to pass.

Clean thoroughly as ALR advised, using e.g. Simple Solution or Urine-Off. Don't use bleach on the floors, it attracts cats to wee on.

If you do all of the above and there is still no improvement then consider seeking advice from a qualified pet behaviourist. If you have pet insurance you will be covered if your vet refers you. Otherwise the cost will be about £75 per visit. But you may only need one visit and a follow-up on the phone. 
Well worth it if all else has failed.

These people are good if you need one:

CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers

Meanwhile I strongly recommend you to have a read of the sticky thread on this forum on house soiling. Loads of useful information. Pay special attention to Part 6 on behavioural causes.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-trai...peeing-pooing-house-house-soiling-thread.html

EDIT: if trays are not scooped frequently during the day because you are out for long hours, I'd provide more than 2 litter trays for her, at least 3. You could always hide one out of sight in a cupboard, once you are at home and there to scoop all the time.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Presumably she is spayed? And you say health related issues are ruled out - that was by a vet?
This isn't an 'attitude' problem, it's either health or psychological I would imagine. Great advice above by CM :thumbup:
Whatever you do, please do not just leave her behind. If you are unable to take her then make arrangements to have her rehomed. 
Good luck - if you take the time and trouble to find a cause and solution you will both be much happier I'm sure


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## tomig (Aug 13, 2014)

her litter box is by her food actually, and I recently got the hormone diffuser(feliway) on a recent vet visit which is how I know it's not health related. She does use her box. I've notice her box is mostly unused when I find she's gone somewhere else, which does not happen too often but every once in a while is often enough, she is declawed and fixed. I've always used the same litter since day one the Arm and hammer double duty. I've stuck with it because it's fine grain(since she's declawed) and it clumps and holds odor well. Or its at least the best I've tried. I will try moving her food to my room. I live in a tiny two room house so spacing things out is a challenge and I have considered getting another box but mostly for when I let her outside, I have a screened in porch, when I'm home during the day. As for moving I really am concerned in how to deal with that mostly because it's so many animals and the dogs aren't small ones. One of them is a weimaraner and loves to play with anything. I'd be lucky if dear penelope didn't have heart attack. I know there is absolutely no one that will be willing to take my cat, nor can I bear the thought of giving her away. I was going to leave her with my mom because she is the only one who will deal with her for me. Just the thought of leaving her makes me want to break down. I only say she has an attitude be cause she is a Siamese. She's a prissy little diva. She gets pissy and twitches her tail at me because of the tiniest things. Sometimes she doesn't even want me to pet her she'll move away from my hand. I do what I can to spoil her and find things that would make her happy. Out of all the toys I've bought her she will only play with a ball made out of tin foil. Can't really complain about that, it's a cheap thrill and I've become quite the expert at making them. I've been trying to spend more time with her and I hate to admit that not being around 24/7, in my opinion, has her a little upset. I'll sometimes stay at my boyfriends house, mostly after I've gotten off work, seeing as I recently quit my job I should be spending more time at home. Although I will be moving at the end of this moth so I don't have very long, maybe not long enough, to resolve things.

Thank you all though I will try some of the things you have told me


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

Oh my God, did you just say she's declawed. Tomig it's very cruel to declaw a cat. Are you sure she's declawed (i.e. she has no nails or did you just get her nails cut). If she is declawed, is there any reason you had her declawed? This is a website on declawing: What You Need To Know About Declawing - Declawing.com
Declawing Cats: Far Worse Than a Manicure : The Humane Society of the United States

If she's declawed then that would explain your litter box problems. Cats that are declawed find it painful to step inside a litter box (the litter get in between their paws and cause pain). So they have a tendency of not using their litter box.

I am not sure what the solution for this would be or if there is a solution.


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

She's declawed??

Oh. My. God.

This is illegal in the UK, as it's akin to amputating a person's fingers. I'm really sorry, because I know this is going to come over as judgemental, but given this is the situation, it's hardly surprising Penelope has issues.

I therefore hope you're prepared to try hard to resolve them, because, particularly if you were responsible for her declawing, you have a responsibility to sort them out.

Putting aside the declawing issue for a moment however, cats do not like to toilet near the place they eat and drink, so I suggest you move her litter box.


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

ALR, our posts crossed. But it is interesting and significant that our initial reaction is EXACTLY the same. 

"De-clawing" sounds quite benign, almost like a fancy manicure, but it is incredibly, terribly cruel - as I said, akin to having the ends of one's fingers amputated


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

I know, I must admit it is really surprising and upsetting to hear of a cat who is declawed, (if indeed the cat is declawed). 

Tomig if your cat is declawed it could be causing her other issues like back pain. It might be an idea to get her checked anyway since you say she's grumpy a lot of the times - there might be a medical reason for it. 

A lot of cats that are declawed develop behavioral issues and are left in shelters. I think this is terribly unfair given it's a problem created by the owners themselves. 

You sound like you're willing to find a solution for your cat, so that's good. Some of her behavioural issues might never be completely sorted but I would not give up on her.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Here I go again about Zylkene but it might be worth a try to help Penelope calm a bit! I do hope OP means claws clipped and not declawed!


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

I keep hearing about cats being declawed even here in my country where it's illegal .... Poor baby.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I am sorry to say that I really do think Tomig means her poor cat has been declawed and not just had her claws trimmed. I really hope it is not the case, because, as said ^^ it is horrible, cruel, abusive treatment to amputate a cat's claws, and can give the cat chronic problems with pain in their feet and also in the spine.

The other thing is that it is a very important part of a cat's behaviour for them to be able to scent mark with their front claws. If they have no claws they cannot scent mark, and this in itself can cause behaviour problems such as weeing away from the tray.

A cat with claws amputated will most definitely have litter box problems. (What a pity the proponents of this gruesome practice are not honest about the after effects! ) The fact is Penelope's feet will be too painful for her at times to stand in the litter box. When claws are amputated part of the toes have to be removed too, or the claws would regrow. It is major surgery.

Added to the fact Penelope's litter tray has been put right by her food!::arf::arf::arf: I wonder if any of us would like to eat our dinner right next to the toilet! :nonod: And remember that cats have a sense of smell that is heaps stronger than a human's. 

Tomig, I sincerely hope Penelope was not in your care when the decision was made to cause brutal damage to her feet. (The veterinarian who carried it out should be struck off). Unfortunately you have now inherited the resulting problem. 

This does also explain why Penelope is not always happy to be stroked (being a diva as you say). It will be because at times she is in pain.

The only thing I can suggest apart from moving the litter box well away from her food, is to put puppy training pads or human incontinence pads in the litter box instead of cat litter. Penelope may find these more comfortable to stand on and be more inclined to use the litter box.

Of course you will either need to be there all day to swap the used pads for clean ones, or you'll need to provide a lot of litter boxes, e.g. 4 or 5 whilst you are out.

The worse thing about taking her with you when you move to a house with dogs is that as Penelope has no claws she will have nothing to defend herself with if one of the dogs were to go for her. 

Personally in the circumstances I think it would be better to find her a good home elsewhere. If she is a full pedigree Siamese, is there no Siamese Rescue in your country you can approach ?


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## tomig (Aug 13, 2014)

Excuse me I came to this forum asking for help not to be lectured on my choices as a cat owner. I do not feel that I have to validate myself with any of you. Penelope has always been moody and distant as she is now. She been that way since she was tiny and only came to me when she wanted to snuggle and sleep. She wasn't declawed at an earlier age. I will not sit here and completely rule out that this happening to her is why she is the way she is, but it is not the entire reason. As for her litter box I've already said I use a fine grain. Even before I had her declawed she used the same thing, over the years I learned that this is preferred over the chunky kind. All animals have a personality just like people, some breeds are known to be more aggressive than others or just not as loveable. Penelope is not big on affection it comes when she wants to give it. I am not a bad pet owner I've loved animals my whole life and would never deliberately hurt any


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Chillminx I did not have any idea what declawing entailed and thought it was only legal in the US your comment about removing part of the toes made we feel physically sick! Not only is it cruel it is mutilation! How despicable!


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

The word Declawing makes me go cold!! How could you  no wonder your Siamese has attitude with you! Very unusual for a siamese to not seek affection from her human.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Soozi said:


> Chillminx I did not have any idea what declawing entailed and thought it was only legal in the US your comment about removing part of the toes made we feel physically sick! Not only is it cruel it is mutilation! How despicable!


Soozi, I think the OP is probably in the US, at least she is not in the UK anyway, as you would never find a veterinarian here to perform the operation, it being illegal.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

chillminx said:


> Soozi, I think the OP is probably in the US, at least she is not in the UK anyway, as you would never find a veterinarian here to perform the operation, it being illegal.


Chillminx, I've just read that is only been illegal since 2006!!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

tomig said:


> Excuse me I came to this forum asking for help not to be lectured on my choices as a cat owner. I do not feel that I have to validate myself with any of you. Penelope has always been moody and distant as she is now. She been that way since she was tiny and only came to me when she wanted to snuggle and sleep. She wasn't declawed at an earlier age. I will not sit here and completely rule out that this happening to her is why she is the way she is, but it is not the entire reason. As for her litter box I've already said I use a fine grain. Even before I had her declawed she used the same thing, over the years I learned that this is preferred over the chunky kind. All animals have a personality just like people, some breeds are known to be more aggressive than others or just not as loveable. Penelope is not big on affection it comes when she wants to give it. I am not a bad pet owner I've loved animals my whole life and would never deliberately hurt any


I am sorry Tomig I don't understand you :- you state you have "loved animals all my life and would *never deliberately hurt any"* and yet you have had your cat's feet painfully mutilated One cannot be a cat lover and condone mutilation - the two things are mutually exclusive. You sound like an intelligent person, so surely you can see the logic of that?

You really should not be in the least bit surprised if you come onto a Pet Forum, where there are bound to be umpteen cat lovers, to find you receive shocked or disapproving comments when you mention your cat has been mutilated.

It is not about "lecturing" you how to treat your cat, it is about us stating our position clearly and expressing our disgust and utter disapproval of such a barbaric practice as declawing a cat.  What do you expect us to do - meekly say nothing? 

I don't know if you are in the USA or not, but I do know that some states are now outlawing the practice as being cruel and inhumane.


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## MistressKitty (Aug 15, 2014)

"I've loved animals my whole life and would never deliberately hurt any"

Um well, if you have had your cat declawed then you have deliberately hurt her. You may not see it that way but many others will and your cat will too! 
Regardless of that, the advice that has been offered is still valid. If you are prepared to work hard I think you can undo some of the damage. Move the litter tray, and just give her lots of fuss and attention whenever she uses it.
Good luck!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

MollyMilo said:


> Chillminx, I've just read that is only been illegal since 2006!!


Really? That surprises me, but I am certain the practice was not carried out here for many years before that. In fact tbh I have never heard of a cat in the UK being declawed in the past 40 years, so it must have been very rare if it was done.

Unlike in the USA.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

chillminx said:


> Really? That surprises me, but I am certain the practice was not carried out here for many years before that. In fact tbh I have never heard of a cat in the UK being declawed in the past 40 years, so it must have been very rare if it was done.
> 
> Unlike in the USA.


I found it very surprising too  when I was on a few forums/boards back in the mid 1990's this topic always cropped up and uk members all said it was illegal here!


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I assumed the OP was in the states by some of the wording in the posts. So I knew that declawing meant just that 
Thank God it only seems to be Americans that think this horrific, cruel and massively painful procedure is acceptable and the rest of the world does not.
If you are American OP then you have to accept the reactions you are getting on this forum, I cannot even believe you will attempt to defend it


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

OP, I am shocked and aghast at your attitude. Your lack of remorse is unbelievable. It also beggars belief that having inflicted such suffering on poor Penelope, you have the audacity to complain at the lack of support you have received on this board :mad2: 

It is hardly surprising that your cat is "moody" and "distant" with you - de-clawing is known to produce all sorts of behavioural problems. You are directly responsible for them.

I am sorry to say you are a callous and irresponsible owner. And you deserve every judgement you get.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Just watched this by one of my favourite people in the world of cats! Watch and learn!


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## Julie100uk (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm horrified that anyone could declaw a cat. I'm really sorry but no wonder you're cat is unhappy, she must be in pain. I'm horrified that anyone could do that to a cat. My cats are Moggies but half Siamese and they are the most loving and intelligent lets I've ever owned. No prissy or with attitude problems.


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## JaimeandBree (Jan 28, 2014)

Not only are you trying to justify declawing (there is no justification, ever, why on earth would you mutilate your pet in this way) but you also have the cheek to complain that she has behavioural issues. 

Excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the floor.


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## JaimeandBree (Jan 28, 2014)

Soozi said:


> Just watched this by one of my favourite people in the world of cats! Watch and learn!


Thanks for this Soozi. That is the first time I have actually seen any images of a declawed cat, their poor paws! :crying:

Imagine how painful it would be to have you fingers amputated and then have to walk around on the stumps...

I find it horrifying and disgusting that a country like the USA not only still allows this practice but that it is still pretty widespread, 25% of all cats in the USA are declawed according to JG, that is a high percentage!

And why, so that humans can save a couple of potential tears in their furniture or scratches on their wallpaper? Get a scratching post or two. Or better yet, a goldfish.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

tomig said:


> Excuse me I came to this forum asking for help not to be lectured on *my choices as a cat owner. I do not feel that I have to validate myself with any of you*. Penelope has always been moody and distant as she is now. She been that way since she was tiny and only came to me when she wanted to snuggle and sleep. She wasn't declawed at an earlier age. I will not sit here and completely rule out that this happening to her is why she is the way she is, but it is not the entire reason. As for her litter box I've already said I use a fine grain. Even before I had her declawed she used the same thing, over the years I learned that this is preferred over the chunky kind. All animals have a personality just like people, some breeds are known to be more aggressive than others or just not as loveable. Penelope is not big on affection it comes when she wants to give it. *I am not a bad pet owner I've loved animals my whole life and would never deliberately hurt any*


I hope you watch the Jackson Galaxy link. As he rightly says, he is trying to educate people and not judge. Perhaps you will feel differently about your choices after consideration - and will understand why members on this forum that do not live in the USA find declawing abhorrent :sad:


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## Superpettoysrus.com (Nov 23, 2008)

Ive just watched it, I didnt know what exactly was involved until now  i kept looking at my fingers


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## LDK1 (Oct 1, 2010)

moggie14 said:


> I hope you watch the Jackson Galaxy link. As he rightly says, *he is trying to educate people and not judge*. Perhaps you will feel differently about your choices after consideration - and will understand why members on this forum that do not live in the USA find declawing abhorrent :sad:


Yep. As awful as this practice seems to us, I don't think a lot of people in the USA really know just what is involved in declawing, or the behavioural after-effects, especially as it's the *vets* that actually do it as a routine service. Changing the culture needs to start at the top, with vets refusing to perform this procedure and educating people on the reasons why it shouldn't be done. Their governing body should ban it.

This thread reminded me of a conversation I had with my friend (in her early 80's) in the USA and I cannot emphasize enough what a kind-hearted, fantastic person she is, and I've known her many years:

She had taken in a stray kitten found on the road a while back (she had two cats previously that lived until their late teens/late twenties with no behavioural problems), and when we would chat on the phone I would ask how the kitten was getting on.

During one conversation, she told me that it had recently been to the vet's to be declawed. I went cold and didn't know what to say. I then said, as casually as I could, that declawing was illegal in the UK.

She was totally taken aback that it was illegal and was very confused as to why. I didn't go into it too much because I could already tell that I'd upset her. But I can tell you now that she had absolutely no idea that it was considered cruel and I'm pretty sure it's because vets practice it as a matter of routine in the USA.

She was upset because she would not knowingly want to cause an animal any harm. If she had all the information beforehand, she would not have had it done - though she would still be confused as to why, if it was wrong, vets still did it.

Of course, there is less excuse for the younger generations who have access to a lot more information these days.


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## mudgekin (Apr 21, 2014)

This makes me so upset as someone who rescued a declawed cat when I lived abroad. I am no use at linking posts but my post is here:
http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-and-nutrition/365114-claws-3.html#post1063686939

It is inhumane and barbaric. The wee cat I rescued had peeing issues all her life and we could not get on top of it ever. Even writing this my eyes fill up with tears when I think of the life my poor Amber had. God I loved that wee girl.

How dare you come on here and profess to love cats and happily have the upper part of their fingers and toes amputated for convenience sake. There fortunately aren't many people on here who have had to deal with the after effects.

I will not apologise for the tone of my post which is vastly different to most of mine.

You are an irresponsible cruel person and in my mind having the same done to you would not be punishment enough for you and the many vets in the US that happily do this for nothing more than convenience to prevent claw marks on their beloved furniture. Get with it, part of owning a cat us the slightly pulled carpets and the scratch marks on sofa corners


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

mudgekin said:


> *I will not apologise for the tone of my post which is vastly different to most of mine.*
> 
> You are an irresponsible cruel person and in my mind having the same done to you would not be punishment enough for you and the many vets in the US that happily do this for nothing more than convenience to prevent claw marks on their beloved furniture.


This ⬆ and more. It is very, very rare for me to make an angry post.

My initial response to the OP was quite muted, but when her reply revealed the fact she didn't feel there was anything for her to justify, I saw red.

I am still seeing red. But she, it seems, will be blind for ever.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Some people are so self opinionated that they really can't understand why they are criticized! People like this will defend themselves to the hilt even though in their hearts they know they have done something terribly wrong! I don't think she will come back as she really does believe she is right and will never accept, not even from Jackson Galaxy that she is directly to blame for Penelope's behavioral problems! I think she is the DIVA! not the cat! I just hope that it's not too late to help Penelope but I feel it might be!


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## mudgekin (Apr 21, 2014)

Soozi I think you are right in all counts. I just get so blazing mad as I had to deal with a tragically psychologically damaged gorgeous persian cat. She was so disturbed on so many ways eg she was terrified totally of men. It took a long time for hubby to be able to gain her trust, then she adored him (funny all our cats have)

We were heartbroken when we had to get her pts an in fact it was another6 years before we could bear to have another.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Soozie, thank you for posting that link. It would be good to think the OP might watch it and feel utterly ashamed by the cruelty she has inflicted on her poor cat.  But judging by her self-righteous, self-justifying response I somehow doubt she will, as she will hate to be proved wrong. 

I agree with LDK1 - changes in attitude need to come from the vets in the USA, who must start educating their clients about how cruel this horrible practice is. 
I found when I have been in the US there is too much emphasis on the need for companion animals to be "convenient" and to require as few lifestyle alterations as possible to have to be made by the owners.


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## bluecordelia (Jan 5, 2014)

moggie14 said:


> I hope you watch the Jackson Galaxy link. As he rightly says, he is trying to educate people and not judge. Perhaps you will feel differently about your choices after consideration - and will understand why members on this forum that do not live in the USA find declawing abhorrent :sad:


I knew what the procedure was but 25% of cats in America being operated on? That's 1in 4 cats hobbling around after a procedure under ga to chop off a bit of spine. Rescues must be full of them.

Please any American cat owners says no to this. Put basically i wouldn't feel like wiping my ass if you took the top bit of all my pinkies off. I only watched jg upto the image of the declawing...its like tail docking.


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## bluecordelia (Jan 5, 2014)

chillminx said:


> Soozie, thank you for posting that link. It would be good to think the OP might watch it and feel utterly ashamed by the cruelty she has inflicted on her poor cat.  But judging by her self-righteous, self-justifying response I somehow doubt she will, as she will hate to be proved wrong.
> 
> I agree with LDK1 - changes in attitude need to come from the vets in the USA, who must start educating their clients about how cruel this horrible practice is.
> I found when I have been in the US there is too much emphasis on the need for companion animals to be "convenient" and to require as few lifestyle alterations as possible to have to be made by the owners.


As cat owners we are all upset by the operation. I hope any cats imported into uk are not declawed...guess pedigrees couldn't show if they were....


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

chillminx said:


> Soozie, thank you for posting that link. It would be good to think the OP might watch it and feel utterly ashamed by the cruelty she has inflicted on her poor cat.  But judging by her self-righteous, self-justifying response I somehow doubt she will, as she will hate to be proved wrong.
> 
> I agree with LDK1 - changes in attitude need to come from the vets in the USA, who must start educating their clients about how cruel this horrible practice is.
> I found when I have been in the US there is too much emphasis on the need for companion animals to be "convenient" and to require as few lifestyle alterations as possible to have to be made by the owners.


These saddo people cater to their own desires sometimes just on a whim! just to own a cute cat or kitten and very rarely consider the cat's social and physical needs! so just do whatever is easy for them! Selfish B's:mad2:


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

mudgekin said:


> Soozi I think you are right in all counts. I just get so blazing mad as I had to deal with a tragically psychologically damaged gorgeous persian cat. She was so disturbed on so many ways eg she was terrified totally of men. It took a long time for hubby to be able to gain her trust, then she adored him (funny all our cats have)
> 
> We were heartbroken when we had to get her pts an in fact it was another6 years before we could bear to have another.


I have been a member here for over a year now and never seen keyboard rage in any posts! posts can get a little heated at times but this OP is bringing out total outrage in us all! as you can see you are not alone in how you feel!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

bluecordelia said:


> > I knew what the procedure was but 25% of cats in America being operated on? That's 1in 4 cats hobbling around after a procedure under ga to chop off a bit of spine. Rescues must be full of them.
> 
> 
> One of the worst things I heard some while ago was that some Rescues in USA actually get some of their rescued cats declawed before putting them up for rehoming  It is done to make them more "attractive" to potential adopters! :mad2: Isn't that just vile? Makes me ashamed of the human race


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

chillminx said:


> bluecordelia said:
> 
> 
> > One of the worst things I heard some while ago was that *some Rescues in USA actually get some of their rescued cats declawed before putting them up for rehoming * It is done to make them more "attractive" to potential adopters! :mad2: Isn't that just vile? Makes me ashamed of the human race
> ...


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## mudgekin (Apr 21, 2014)

I really think it has to start from the vets. If they refuse to perform this barbaric procedure then it would die out in the USA.

There are all of these movements and petitions to stop female GM but we do this to our pets and companions. I know that I am comparing something that us done to humans with something that is done to animals but neither us dome with the well being of the patient. I am an ex nurse and I gave nursed women who gave undergone GM so I know what the impact is.

I don't feel gad comparing people to cats, he'll sometimes I prefer cats. My point is though that there has to be a movement to ban it. Excuse my rumblings, my meds have kicked in


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## bluecordelia (Jan 5, 2014)

I think it is a shame we have lost the original poster. I along with everyone else are upset about what appears to be a widespread practice and belief. Would it be worth a sticky ...I don't know how to do it or put photos on!

If we had a post maybe it would do some good as trawling the net was how I found the forums and learnt so much.


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

Not all US cat owners support and practise declawing. A very large and popular Cat Forum which is based there is very anti declawing and has been for the ten years or so I've been visiting it. The OP's post probably would have got the same reaction from them. Incidentally, as well as developing behavioural issues they point out that many declawed cats take to using their teeth instead and become biters. 

It sounds to me as though this cat would be better rehomed. I read into the initial post more than a hint of abandoning her and leaving her behind when the OP moves away. Some animal lover!


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## MistressKitty (Aug 15, 2014)

I got into an online argument about declawing once and one commenter said they really wanted to adopt a cat but just couldn't have their very expensive furniture being scratched so it was the only option really, and it was better than them being put down. I'm afraid I too saw red. My response was along the lines of:
"I really wanted to adopt a huge dog but I live in a tiny flat so to prevent him running around all day wrecking it I keep him constantly sedated. Anyway, it's better than him being destroyed in an animal shelter and he seems happy to see me when I get home."
Do you see how ridiculous you sound???

I would have had endless patience and support for Tomig had she engaged in constructive dialogue about declawing and come to realise that what she did was wrong. Sadly that was not to be. Some folks are so invested in their judgements they are unable to swallow their pride.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

This thread has upset me so much, all I can think of is this poor siamese walking around on her knuckles  that is just heart breaking. :crying:

Siamese are so elegant!! I've just watched mine prance about on their toes enjoying life!! 

How could you do this to her


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

I am still thinking about poor Penelope and her sore paws 

I also notice the OP did indeed venture back on the forum after the last post, so whilst we've not heard from them further, hopefully they'll have read through the posts and watched the link. 

We are never too old or jaded to learn something new.


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## Kcabrera3 (Jul 27, 2014)

Hi all,

I just wanted to point something out. I think that someone also mentioned here.

Declaw is wrong, actually the worst part it is the fact that they poor cats end up in rescue centres because people think the behaviour problems are not related with this but we need to step back and think a better strategy to deal with people who does that.

The animals suffer more if we don't help the owner and at the end of the day we want the animals to be better off. They stop reading after we vent all our anger, so at the end, they call us extremists and keep doing it (I bet my life that the other woman, going to give her cat to a centre or put it down, get another one and get this new one declaw again)

:mad2:


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Kcabrera3 said:


> > The animals suffer more if we don't help the owner and at the end of the day we want the animals to be better off. They stop reading after we vent all our anger, so at the end, they call us extremists and keep doing it (I bet my life that the other woman, going to give her cat to a centre or put it down, get another one and get this new one declaw again)
> 
> 
> You may be right (that she will get another cat and also get it declawed).
> ...


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I would venture that the OP is not evil, they are misguided. Declawing is - thank God - illegal in the UK, but sadly it is legal in most parts of the USA. Over there, vets do offer it as a routine procedure along with neutering and the whole portrayal of declawing is different. Owners get their cats declawed and are not told by the VETS that it is barbaric, so they trust what they are told.

A couple of other posters have pointed out that the change needs to start from the top (rep for you guys) and change the advice given to owners by the VETS, who are supposed to act in the interests of the cats they treat.

I was asked if I could declaw a cat once. I said no, it's illegal - and even if it wasn't I would not because it's inhumane. The owner was horrified and admitted they had no idea that it was illegal or what it entailed.

Look at this if you really want to encounter a selfish idiot:

Declawing is not cruel

Here are some choice quotes from this 'enlightening' site:



> Declawing your cat is a personal decision. Many times it is a requirement, such as some apartments or family health issues, and some times is just convenience, living in a small apartment and space can't be wasted on a big scratching post that may or may not work at keeping your kitty away from the furniture. Or a person has a busy schedule and the only time available would rather be spent playing and giving attention to the cat rather than training him.


Not enough space? Too busy? Don't ******* own a cat, then.



> Despite many warnings of how graphic the pictures [of surgery] are, there is not much blood to see.


Oh, that's okay then. Less blood = less pain, no? :frown2:



> It is normal for some cats to shake their paws few days after declawing. It doesn't necesarily mean pain, but the glue or stitch left behind is more like an annoyance that the cat is trying to shake away. Just think of it this way: if your hand hurt, would you shake it? No, you would try to keep it as motionless as possible.


Actually, what's the first thing you do if you trap your finger in a drawer? You shake it and shout "oh crap, that hurt!"

It _is_ normal for cats to shake their paws after declawing. That's because it bloody hurts.



> I am sure you have seen a cat scratching, and you might have noticed the joy he experiences. But he is scratching on your favorite couch, so you need to squirt him with water to prevent the couch from an early demise. Aaww, your cat must think you are the worst party pooper on the planet!!!


Yeah, TBH Bagpuss does scratch my sofa sometimes. It doesn't bother me as the fabric on my sofa is pretty resistant to his claws, and I'm not snobby about my furniture anyway (a sofa is for sitting on, not looking at). He uses his scratching post too.

Anyway, did you guys know that there are only TWO ways to stop a cat scratching furniture?
1. Squirt water at them.
2. Declaw them.

All other measures are futile, apparently. Actually, scratch that (no pun intended): all other measures don't exist, it seems. 



> Besides, in some countries is legal for a father to sell his daughter. In some countries public hangings is legal. In some countries contraceptives are illegal (ie. Turkey). It is illegal to take a bath in the wintertime in Indiana. Bullfighting is legal in Spain (now that is cruelty at its worst!!). In England is legal to shot a Welshman within the city walls at Chester. In some countries is legal to kill a woman that commits adultery. Just because something is law doesnt make it right, just because declawing cats is illegal in these countries doesnt necessary mean is wrong.


^^^ Weirdest, most irrelevant argument I have ever read in favour of declawing. :rolleyes5:



> The reason I made this page was because I hate lies and when the public is being misinformed. I also love animals and will rather see a cat getting a declaw than being dumped at the pound.


My cat is neither declawed nor will he ever be dumped at the pound. Funny that.



> [Some] vets refuse to do declawings because they have had bad experiences in the past. This is because some of them are not trained properly and are using an outdated method (see the surgery itself) or they have never done the procedure before and are not properly trained. Most vet schools allow students to not take certain classes if the student doesn't feel comfortable taking it. Others like to show a "holier than thou" attitude to atract clients by making themselves sound like the most humane vet in the area. While they might lose some clients to the declawing, they gain more by word of mouth.


Yeah, that's me: holier than thou. I don't declaw cats because I am better than you. Well, in reality it's the other way around. I AM better than you, because I don't declaw cats.


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

*OP - I know you have returned to this Forum. So please. Read Shoshannah's post and learn what declawing really means*



Shoshannah said:


> I would venture that the OP is not evil, they are misguided. Declawing is - thank God - illegal in the UK, but sadly it is legal in most parts of the USA. Over there, vets do offer it as a routine procedure along with neutering and the whole portrayal of declawing is different. Owners get their cats declawed and are not told by the VETS that it is barbaric, so they trust what they are told.
> 
> A couple of other posters have pointed out that the change needs to start from the top (rep for you guys) and change the advice given to owners by the VETS, who are supposed to act in the interests of the cats they treat.
> 
> ...


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## MistressKitty (Aug 15, 2014)

"atract [sic] clients by making themselves sound like the most humane vet in the area."
Yeah, you idiot, trying to be the most humane vet - what's wrong with you??? 

OMG that attitude is so messed up!


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## bluecordelia (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi everyone just catching up. There are some quoted here that read ad if mine. Forum been a bit odd recently. I tow the education line and hope all readers now can see the evidence and balance for not declawing. Btw my 2 leather sofas m chair in a specially chosen marmalade green have scratch marks and fury blankets on all arms....adds to the charm.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Interesting article on Dr Mercola's website about the practice of declawing, still widely practiced in the USA and Canada.

It gives full details of exactly what is involved, and the horrendous after effects that can last for life.

It explains that US vet schools (with 2 exceptions) are still teaching students how to carry out this barbaric procedure!  Hardly surprising that newly qualified vets rarely question it. 

Declawing: The Routine Procedure That Owners Still Request


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## mudgekin (Apr 21, 2014)

chillminx said:


> Interesting article on Dr Mercola's website about the practice of declawing, still widely practiced in the USA and Canada.
> 
> It gives full details of exactly what is involved, and the horrendous after effects that can last for life.
> 
> ...


That is an excellent article. Disturbingly I recognised the facial grimace that she describes as my poor wee rescued cat had that look. I used to say to hubby that she always looked as though she was frowning.

My poor wee cat went through so much before she came to us.


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