# Would you be offended??



## Samy (Mar 14, 2012)

I had an "experience" lastnight with a fellow dog owner, and it wasnt a nice one. I know that Dodge has his issues but I am working really hard and investing alot of money to try and give him the best support I can.

If you were out walking and had your dog had a bit of a shouting match with another dog would you mind if the other dog owner handed you a small leaflet with some history on the dog, just a brief "My dog is fear agressive, working with the behaviourist, etc (maybe even on the back the dog walking etiquet)"

A lady lastnight was interested in why Dodge was reacting but I couldnt stop to tell her as she had a dog and he wasnt happy as he had already been riled up by 2 other dogs a few moment before hand. And I would like to be able to tell other dog owners he is lovely he is just worried by the other dog 

I wish all dog owners would just take some time and think before letting there offlead dog approach an on lead dog that has already started barking upon site of another dog, therefore not leaving me in tears in a field feeling like I am the only bad dog owner in the world :blushing::frown2:


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## Shadowrat (Jan 30, 2011)

I wouldn't be offended at all. 
But then, I have a barker. Dresden will bark at any dog he sees passing by when on lead (not when off lead). Not to be aggressive, just that he's a bouncy, boisterous puppy and dobe puppies can be vocal!
But to people walking by, I do think some of them think he is aggressive, just because of his breed 

But no, it wouldn't offend me at all if the owner of a barking dog handed me a leaflet to explain the situation. I don't know why it _would_ offend someone. 
Currently, I have to shout across the road 'its ok, he's friendly, he's just very vocal and excited!' Think I should get a t-shirt with it on in big letters :rolleyes5:


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I would not be offended provided you could demonstrate that you had the required skills, knowledge, ability, training and experience to warrant providing advice to others!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Not offended, but then i wouldn't let my dog approach another dog without my permission, its one of my pet hates. My last dog had a rare brain & spinal degeneration & he was scared about other dogs jarring him, prior to this he loved to run & play. And it was seeing him cringe as another dog ran up to him that quickly discarded with my apprehension at asking other dog owners to keep their dogs under control & at a distance. But by the time you have finished explaining the ins & outs time has gone on, if it is someone you see regularly then i dont see why you would offend them. They may even be interested in seeing how you progress?


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## mushymouth (Jan 9, 2011)

no but maybe try to not think about what others think cos what they think doesnt really matter
and you could get exhausted explaining yourself all the time
sadly this is quite common where people let a off lead dog approach an on lead one
if i see a dog on lead i put rox on lead its just politeness i think

dont explain yourself to other that dont matter
and focus on the doggie : )


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## Vicki (Jul 28, 2009)

I wouldn't mind, but I think I would wonder why. There is no reason for you or anyone else to explain why your dog behaves in a certain way. My dog sometimes barks at other dogs, because she wants to play and gets frustrated when she can't because of the lead. I don't bother to explain that to people, because it's really none of their business.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Vicki said:


> I wouldn't mind, but I think I would wonder why. There is no reason for you or anyone else to explain why your dog behaves in a certain way. My dog sometimes barks at other dogs, because she wants to play and gets frustrated when she can't because of the lead. I don't bother to explain that to people, because it's really none of their business.


True but it might help people learn to be more open minded about other dogs, I think it's a good idea. It would be nice to know you're not an ******* owner which is what some people may assume if your dog is barking lots, it's like when people pick up their precious little dogs to walk past even when mine is on the lead it would be nice to know it's not because they're an idiot who thinks a dog is an accessory but rather their dog has issues with dogs etc.


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## mushymouth (Jan 9, 2011)

depends on the person with the other dog too though
you will get people who will think wow that was thoughtful
and you will get people that will be like..... and...... 
its your choice 
personally i wouldnt just because the time it would take to do etc etc
and i spent most of my life explaining myself and dont do it any more
cos i just get more frustrated unless its to the people that matter ovb




misunderstood aint gotta be explained!!!
: )


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

The idea isn't bad in theory; but I think that you'd open yourself up to 'advice' from all and sundry over how to solve the issues and could be plagued by armchair experts.

I have also found that when I am worrying about what other people are thinking that I am not concentrating fully on Kilo and my stress affects him. The best thing that I have ever done is to stop caring what people think if I'm sat at the side of the path to let them past etc (Kilo can get excited to meet dogs, but is very, very much improved). I used to explain that he was friendly, but could be excitable etc etc . Once I stopped giving a monkey's what they thought we moved on fast - that included things like becoming more assertive in seeing off offlead dogs.

I do care some of the time, but mostly now I don't. It's liberating .


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## DobermannZoe (Mar 3, 2012)

I think its just better to go about your own business and concentrate on your dog at that time, rather than faffing with flyers explaining to all. people are going to make up their own minds whatever so maiswell just get on with it, but thats just me lol


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

My dog is extremely reactive on lead. If he sees another dog, and if we have to go anywhere near the other dog, he goes BESERK.

I don't think I would ever hand out a leaflet though... I do quite often apologise if I can see the other dog owner looks nervous; mostly I call out 'Sorry, he's just having a temper tantrum 'cause he can't play with your dog!'. They then know it's not aggression and they relax and usually grin back.

In all honesty, I don't think I'd *want *to be handed a leaflet by a fellow dog owner. My hands are always full with my dog, and my bag, and his treats etc. I would not want to then have to take a leaflet. Sorry, just being honest


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Dogless said:


> The idea isn't bad in theory; but I think that you'd open yourself up to 'advice' from all and sundry over how to solve the issues and could be plagued by armchair experts.
> 
> I have also found that when I am worrying about what other people are thinking that I am not concentrating fully on Kilo and my stress affects him. The best thing that I have ever done is to stop caring what people think if I'm sat at the side of the path to let them past etc (Kilo can get excited to meet dogs, but is very, very much improved). I used to explain that he was friendly, but could be excitable etc etc . Once I stopped giving a monkey's what they thought we moved on fast - that included things like becoming more assertive in seeing off offlead dogs.
> 
> I do care some of the time, but mostly now I don't. It's liberating .


You are right. It is bad enough as it is with tv experts telling you what you should be doing, without inviting their opinions.

I would just shout: He has problems, keep your dog away. That should certainly suffice.

And don't feel bad. My Ferdie is a huge embarrassment sometimes, when he makes a beeline for where I desperately don't want him to go and if I am lucky enough to catch him, he sits down and won't move. I could spend forever explaining his stubborness, but it isn't really worth it. All I would get is remarks about him being too big for me to handle, which isn't really true as most of the time he is very well behaved.

You just carry on doing what you are doing and to hell with them.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I wouldnt be offended, but i will be completely honest and say i wouldnt be in the slightest bit interested, and wouldnt bother to read it.

My dog whines when we approach others, and sometimes this builds up into a bit of a scream (no lunging or pulling on the lead - just noise). I dont say anything, as what other people think of his behaviour doesnt bother me in the slightest.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

I wouldn't be offended, but just thinking practically how would you be able to pass a leaflet to someone else while trying to calm your dog, and potentially while they were trying to calm theirs? Not a criticism, but I think when your dog is pent up it's kind of a 2 hand job to calm them down.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Grace_Lily said:


> I wouldn't be offended, but just thinking practically how would you be able to pass a leaflet to someone else while trying to calm your dog, and potentially while they were trying to calm theirs? Not a criticism, but I think when your dog is pent up it's kind of a 2 hand job to calm them down.


Paper aeroplanes?


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## Melissa27 (Mar 15, 2012)

I wouldn&#8217;t be offended at all, but all you&#8217;d need to tell me is &#8216;he is in training&#8217; and I&#8217;d understand and sympathise.  I have had several foster/rescue dogs that have had fear reactiveness/aggression issues, and can definitely relate to how difficult fear related problems can be to fix. To be honest while the pamphlet may be a good idea for some people, I think a quick verbal explanation would be just as effective as well.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

I wouldn't be offended at all - I would suggest though it might be beneficial to use one of those training jackets for dogs which would highlight at a distance that your dog is training or has other issues which would hopefully make off lead dog owners aware in time.

You are in a very awkward and stressful situation not only for your dog but you as well so any help you can get is good. I have never had a dog aggressive dog and I can only imagine how stressed you feel by the end of the walk but what I would like to say is try to leave the stresses of each walk at the door and start each walk with a fresh mind.

Have you tried a DAP collar?

Well done for doing your best for your doggie.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Samy said:


> I had an "experience" lastnight with a fellow dog owner, and it wasnt a nice one. I know that Dodge has his issues but I am working really hard and investing alot of money to try and give him the best support I can.
> 
> If you were out walking and had your dog had a bit of a shouting match with another dog would you mind if the other dog owner handed you a small leaflet with some history on the dog, just a brief "My dog is fear agressive, working with the behaviourist, etc (maybe even on the back the dog walking etiquet)"
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear you had a stressful walk. If someone is GENUINELY interested, I'd take the time (if possible to briefly explain my dogs problems) if they had their head up their a** and looked to be tutting at me, I wouldnt give 2 stuffs (something I am still training myself to do!)

I was in a similar situation yesterday, had a guy sat on a bench away from his big dog, very friendly and Charlie had played with him fine on his walk just 30mins before, the dog makes a beeline for Dottie whose on her training line, they sniff, suss each other out, but the dog wanted a better sniff of Dotties bum and she started barking and snapping at the dog to go away. No biting just loud barking.

A woman who lives a door away from me, was sat on her garden with a friend watching it all happen, she once told me she couldnt cope with "a dog like Dottie"  and I started worrying about what she was thinking when all she should be thinking is, there is a person who is trying their damn hardest.

I agree with Dogless, the sooner you stop giving a hoot, the more you relax. If you look back on some of my old threads/posts you will see how upset/stressed I got about other people and their opinions on my dogs, now, I turn on my heel if I think there will be trouble and sadly you'll always have to endure the idiots who cant/wont control their dog.

I saw my DT last week and he told me to click and praise any calm behaviour before the dog approaches yours and get a high value treat to call your dog away, for Dottie a ball.

Do I remember half of what he tells me at the time? Do I heck!

Dont worry, you're not alone!

xxx


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## JoJo74 (May 29, 2011)

I can sympathise, i often find myself explaining Dukes behaviour or apologising when really it's not his fault,it's the off lead dog that has come bounding over.

I think a verbal comment is easier and quicker than handing out a leaflet. I know if Duke is kicking off i need all my concentration on getting his focus, by the time i'd rummaged in my bag the person would be long gone.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

You also have to remember that the other person might have a reactive dog and the last thing they then want is your and your dog approaching them so you can hand them a leaflet!

For me it would be a nightmare if someone with another dog was to try and come up to us so the owner could hand me something.

Honestly, I think you're better off using all your energy on your dog and just calling out a quick apology* IF *you feel it's necessary.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

I wouldn't be offended at all but I think a flyer is unnecessary. I've met people with dogs showing aggression for whatever reason and have often had a chat with the owners (usually at a distance so shouting ). I find it interesting and actually found that the dogs would stop quickly with Jaz - she was so indifferent to loud dogs!
I was lucky in that I never had that kind of problem but I also know that the role could be reversed with my next dog and would hate people to blank me.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I wouldn't be offended by a leaflet, but I think a vest on your dog with something like 'fear aggressive dog' written on the sides would be at least as effective, save printing costs, be practically straightforward as long as the other people can read. Once people had read it once they should know to keep their dogs away in future. In a distinctive colour scheme you would be recognised at some distance.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

I think it would all be so much easier for folk if there was a Dog Owners Code, something like a colour coded system that immediately lets others know the situation.

You could use coloured neckerchiefs so they are easy to see from a distance:

Red - don't approach as the dog is either reactive or under training or you just don't want other dogs to approach.

Yellow - dog is tempremental so ask and approach with caution.

Green - perfectly fine to approach and have a play.

It would also help members of the public without dogs who want to pet your dog or have kids.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

A good idea...but not pratical..well it wouldn't for me anyway.. as I want to get Chester out of the situation as quickly as I can..but, I do understand where your coming from

I was considering getting chester a DINOS vest or something similar but..the majority of people would not know what it means round here where I live so, it would be pretty pointless...


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

hutch6 said:


> I think it would all be so much easier for folk if there was a Dog Owners Code, something like a colour coded system that immediately lets others know the situation.
> 
> You could use coloured neckerchiefs so they are easy to see from a distance:
> 
> ...


Yes. Except that categorizing anything is a bit of an iffy process in my view. Things are never black or white.  
Very few dogs are utterly bomb-proof in every single situation. What about older arthritic dog who doesn't like youngsters in his face? Similarly a dog may have a problem with a specific breed- which colour should he wear? Yellow- with the inevitable result of most dog walkers actively avoiding him- in the most part unnecessary and a bit depressing for dog and owner.

Or Green? All and sundry approach?

I could see such a system encouraging the MDIF folk who think that the idea of a dog walk is to let their dog off the lead and harass other dogs and walkers, without much thought to how it makes other owners/dogs feel. :

I don't personally think anyone should rather thoughtlessly approach a dog or allow their dogs to, without reading the dog themselves or looking for guidance from the owner.

In short, is it the dogs we need to categorize or better standards and walking etiquette we need to try and encourage on the dog owning and general population:

1. Always ask before you actively approach an unknown dog or allow your dog to.
2. Be mindful of others. 
3. Obey "lead laws" (dogs on leads on roads, in signposted areas)

etc...

OP- would one of these be any good?

Home - FrecklesDesign


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## juju169 (Nov 29, 2010)

I would say not to bother with them, it should be pretty obvious that if you see a dog on its lead that you shouldn't let your dog approach. I have had many wonderful, friendly dogs who I have loved walking over parks and beaches etc; then we got Torak, he is an adorable GSD who loves his family including his cats, even tiny kittens BUT he hates all other dogs and isn't to be trusted with people outside the home environment.

So on the rare occasions I take him out (we have a large garden) he wears a muzzle and stays on his lead; we were on the common one day and along ran a keep fit freak and his sweet staffy dog. Torak quite predictably did his I'm going to kill you routine, then the 'expert' staffy owner said "oh he'll be ok, take the muzzle off" as he is imparting his words of wisdom Tor is trying to bite the staffy's neck through the muzzle!

Ignore other dog walkers some of them are 100% idiots!!


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## Samy (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks everyone for all your thoughts, I hate to think of someone going home thinking I am a bad dog owner, but I need to focus on Dodge and not what others think of him, I guess my nest steps will be:



Get Dodge a bright vest with some wording on it - off to amazon for a look now

Learn to just let things go, geniune people that see him on a lead and anxious will take care to keep their dog out of his way , other dog owner who dont care I just need to get Dodge away from this stress and these idiot owners ASAP


Walk through the door after a walk and just let it all go - I know whats wrong with my Dodge, so does his behaviourist and no matter what anyone else says to me ... its water off a ducks back.... (maybe a bottle of wine will help with this step )

I would like to see my local area put up a sign with the Do/Donts, I really like this list from Bath cats and dogs home (any ideas on how i can do this, my other half works for a printer so can get me stuff needed so I can do it myself with the correct permission, just not sure who to ask):

https://www.bathcatsanddogshome.org.uk/pet_care/dogs_and_puppies/dog_walking_etiquette

Dog walking etiquette
Owning a dog opens up a strange world - from now on no-one will remember your name but they will remember everything about your dog, you get to know the schedules of complete strangers and you will have lengthy conversations about poo.

There is a un-written code that most people go by when walking dogs in public places, here is a list of do's and don't's!

DO put your dog on a lead if a dog on a lead is coming towards you.
There are a lot of reasons why a dog may be on a lead in a park - it could be recovering from an operation, a bitch on heat, new to the owner and they are still building a bond, it may just be a bit grumpy. In most reasons that dog does not want another dog jumping over it, and you may cause injury to the other dog if it gets boisterous whilst on a lead.

DO pick up poo wherever it may be.
It is law, for starters. But even on scrubland it can get washed into waterways and harm wildlife, and children get everywhere and it contains diseases. If you are one of those who hides it under leaves - may you forget where it is and get it on your shoes the next day.

DON'T assume that every dog wants to meet yours.
Give enough room for dogs (and people) to ignore each other if they want to.

DON'T feed other dogs treats without asking permission from their owner.
The dog may be on a special diet, or having training to stop it running up to complete strangers. You are not helping.

DON'T be scared of dogs with muzzles on.
There are a lot of reasons dogs have muzzles on. They may have coprophagy (they eat poo - told you you would be talking about poo) or scavenge food litter, catch squirrels or rabbits or play too roughly with other dogs. Whatever the reason, they won't hurt you or your dog because they have a muzzle on!

DO call your dog close when passing a pedestrian.
Some people go walking without dogs (I know, weird) and probably don't want your dog running up to them.

DO teach your dog a recall around other dogs.
If the other owner asks you to call your dog, do it. If your dog is a bit too boisterous for the other dog, call them away. If you don't know how to get your dog to come to you then book a session with a behaviourist or go to a training class. Every dog can learn this.

DO keep training with your dog.
After you've done the puppy classes keep going with training. It builds a bond between you and there is plenty you can learn! Every training class is different so find one that suits you, or try something like agility.

DO learn how dogs play.
Play can involve barking, tumbling, growling, grabbing of ruffs and bouncing off chests. It can look and sound really rough but letting dogs play can be very important. If you are unsure of how to tell the difference between play and bullying, attend a dog socialisation or communication class with your dog and you can both learn about the rules of playing!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Have you seen these? You can design a vest with a message of your choice on Design Your Own Reflective Dog Vest • Design Your Own Dog Accessories • Dog Clothing, Dog Accessories, Dog Collars and Dog Grooming Products.


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## Samy (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Dogless


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Samy said:


> I would like to see my local area put up a sign with the Do/Donts, I really like this list from Bath cats and dogs home (any ideas on how i can do this, my other half works for a printer so can get me stuff needed so I can do it myself with the correct permission, just not sure who to ask):
> [/LIST][/COLOR]
> 
> https://www.bathcatsanddogshome.org.uk/pet_care/dogs_and_puppies/dog_walking_etiquette
> ...


I like that list. All aspects need appliance of common sense of course. 
The only one I would question a bit is the one I've starred about not feeding other people's dogs. The exception I personally use is if an offlead dog is charging towards my fearful one, and the owner is unable or unwilling to recall them, I will throw treats towards them. This can help stop the other dog in it's tracks and distract them, and thus spare my girl getting distressed due to being pounced all over. ()
I've only had to use it a few times and nobody has made a fuss. If they did, I'm afraid I wouldn't be too sympathetic because they really ought to not allow harassing type behaviour.

OP have you heard of the DINOS campaign?
notes from a dog walker


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Vicki said:


> I wouldn't mind, but I think I would wonder why. There is no reason for you or anyone else to explain why your dog behaves in a certain way. My dog sometimes barks at other dogs, because she wants to play and gets frustrated when she can't because of the lead. I don't bother to explain that to people, because it's really none of their business.


I think it is good manners to give an apology, and if there is a valid reason then also to explain why your dog is acting in an antisocial way but I would not want it in writing! I would not be offended but I would be surprised and rather uninterested.


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## thronesfan (Jun 20, 2012)

Samy said:


> I wish all dog owners would just take some time and think before letting there offlead dog approach an on lead dog that has already started barking upon site of another dog, therefore not leaving me in tears in a field feeling like I am the only bad dog owner in the world :blushing::frown2:


I used to volunteer at a dog rescue centre and it really opened my eyes to different types of dog behaviour. I think a lot of people get stuck in a mind set of thinking "my dog's perfectly friendly and just wants to play" and can't grasp that someone else's dog may not feel the same way.

The coloured vest seems like a good idea. You could maybe contact your local council and ask them about putting notices in the local parks, etc (where I live, most of the parks have notices at the gates about picking up dog poo - it shouldn't be hard to add something about dog lead etiquette).


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

TBH if you're dog was having a noise fest I wouldn't ask why. I'd sit my dogs and let you walk past. Because I have one the exact same, he's fine offlead and with calm dogs, but onlead any dog is going to get an earful. I often let people pass with their dogs as mine sit, I believe it's manners and especially if theirs is displaying a bit of frustration. One person even thanked me and said she wished more people would do it as her dog didn't react to mine sitting still.. 

A tip I've found that works well is walking in the opposite direction as soon as noise starts then when he calms down walk back, meeting face to face is confrontational so this is a bit easier, also walking behind other dogs that aren't bothered about him could help a bit. Make him feel a bit at ease. 

But no I wouldn't be offended if you couldn't answer my question due to your dogs behaviour. People who are simply don't understand. If I wanted to chat to you I'd sit my dogs and stay them whilst I came over to ask you. That way at least I'd be able to hear some of what you were saying 

As for the onlead/offlead thing - I've had a couple in the past few weeks say theirs was friendly and had to shout over "But MINE isn't" even after saying "Could you leash yours, mine isn't too good".. :rolleyes5: the thing to remember is to go out thinking everyone is stupid - it works a treat.


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## Samy (Mar 14, 2012)

lemmsy said:


> I like that list. All aspects need appliance of common sense of course.
> The only one I would question a bit is the one I've starred about not feeding other people's dogs. The exception I personally use is if an offlead dog is charging towards my fearful one, and the owner is unable or unwilling to recall them, *I will throw treats towards them*. This can help stop the other dog in it's tracks and distract them, and thus spare my girl getting distressed due to being pounced all over. ()
> I've only had to use it a few times and nobody has made a fuss. If they did, I'm afraid I wouldn't be too sympathetic because they really ought to not allow harassing type behaviour.
> 
> ...


I had thought about throwing the treats down but had worried for the other dog if they had a reaction, but I guess a careful owner wouldnt allow their dog to approach an onlead dog, and if their dog did react maybe it would make them think twice in the future before allowing this to happen again... still seems a little bad of me to risk another dogs health to help mine 

I hadnt seen the website you linked to I will take a look at it in a moment - thank you :thumbup:


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## Samy (Mar 14, 2012)

SLB said:


> As for the onlead/offlead thing - I've had a couple in the past few weeks say theirs was friendly and had to shout over "But MINE isn't" even after saying "Could you leash yours, mine isn't too good".. :rolleyes5: *the thing to remember is to go out thinking everyone is stupid - it works a treat*.


Yes I do that alot and then I get "the look" you know the one, well arent you a terrible person, I am walking away judging you because my dog is perfect and your isnt... :frown: the same look that parents of loud children in shops and restaurants get... lol

"the thing to remember is to go out thinking everyone is stupid - it works a treat" this will be my new moto


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Samy said:


> I had thought about throwing the treats down but had worried for the other dog if they had a reaction,... and if their dog did react maybe it would make them think twice in the future before allowing this to happen again... still seems a little bad of me to risk another dogs health to help mine




Yes. It does and this is the aspect I dislike about it BUT at the end of the day your dog is your priority. 
As dog owners when we rehome/home our dogs, we make a contract with them to keep them safe, not with another (rather complacent) dog walker who you are unlikely to see again. 
You have to protect your own dog. If they are unable or unwilling to recall their dog, then it seems very reasonable to take such a moderate measure to protect quite a vulnerable (onlead, trapped) fearful dog.

The chances of meeting an intolerant dog aren't that high (and those that have dogs with serious or moderate allergies are more likely take care to ensure their dog doesn't come into contact with allergens and therefore be more conscious of what their dog is up to). Similarly the quantities that you are throwing down are going to be small in relative terms, so less likely to cause a reaction even in a allergic dog.



> but I guess a careful owner wouldnt allow their dog to approach an onlead dog,


In a nutshell... yes.

Quite often (generalizations aren't great I know) many of the MDIF folk are serial offenders (dogs are allowed to practice this behaviour daily and the owners think nothing of it)


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

I would be mortified..... As a dog owner myself if I had encroached on some one traiing session leading them to think I needed to be given a leaflet I would be so embarrassed.

Coloured vests.
Absolutley not open yourself up to all sorts of problems..imo


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## Dizzy Grace (May 2, 2012)

I wouldn't be offended, but I also don't think it's really necessary. I suppose like many others have said you shouldn't worry about what others think. Easier said than done I know, but so long as you know you are doing the right thing by your dog then you have no reason to feel like a bad owner and who cares if some random passer-by makes an uneducated judgement of you. 

Although I like the etiquette list.. Would be tempted to print off and fly post around my local area so many dog walkers and others could really benefit from that here.


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## charlearose (Sep 18, 2011)

Your dog is on lead, their dog is off lead therefore (imo) you have no reason to feel upset they are being irresponsible by letting there dog wander up to a dog that 
1 they dont know 
2 have no idea if its aggressive or not ( or if the owner is ) 
3 should have full proper control of their dog and if not then it shouldnt be off lead


So i wouldnt worry about it from your point of view your doing the best you can for you dog 
i think it nice thought though giving the other owner some info about your dog but i dont know what they would do with it


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## mattcollie (Jun 1, 2012)

i sometimes think society has gone a bit bonkers. i let my dog off the lead and yes at times he is going to approach another dog. He is not aggressive and just interested. I think its crazy to expect our dog just to ignore every dog that goes past. as long as we know our dog isn't aggressive theres no reason to. yes fair enough another dog might not be so friendly and snap at him. he soon learns to leave him alone then. When i was growing up and had dogs i never remeber people placing such hard expectations on their dogs and other people. I think people need to ease up and accept these are animals and we can't control their every move. I often think its owners that create the problem and not the dog. being so wound up and nervy when another dog approaches certainly doesn't help the dog. also immediately putting a dog on a lead when another dog approaches often doesn't help the dog as he then feels trapped and worries that he does have something to be scared about, therefore reacting.

This is only my opinion and personal experience. good luck


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

mattcollie said:


> i sometimes think society has gone a bit bonkers. i let my dog off the lead and yes at times he is going to approach another dog. He is not aggressive and just interested. I think its crazy to expect our dog just to ignore every dog that goes past. as long as we know our dog isn't aggressive theres no reason to. yes fair enough another dog might not be so friendly and snap at him. he soon learns to leave him alone then. When i was growing up and had dogs i never remeber people placing such hard expectations on their dogs and other people. I think people need to ease up and accept these are animals and we can't control their every move. I often think its owners that create the problem and not the dog. being so wound up and nervy when another dog approaches certainly doesn't help the dog. also immediately putting a dog on a lead when another dog approaches often doesn't help the dog as he then feels trapped and worries that he does have something to be scared about, therefore reacting.
> 
> This is only my opinion and personal experience. good luck


I thought from your posts on another thread that your dog is reactive though? Do you not worry that he'll meet another reactive dog and the excitement will spill into aggression? If he gets a snap and decides that he isn't going to tolerate it?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

mattcollie said:


> i sometimes think society has gone a bit bonkers. i let my dog off the lead and yes at times he is going to approach another dog. He is not aggressive and just interested. I think its crazy to expect our dog just to ignore every dog that goes past. as long as we know our dog isn't aggressive theres no reason to. yes fair enough another dog might not be so friendly and snap at him. he soon learns to leave him alone then.


Or it may make a very real attempt to kill him. And believe me, even with a muzzle on serious damage can be done. Not to mention your dog approaching a dog with issues is pretty much guaranteed to set back that dogs training. I got sick to death of people with friendly dogs being unable to stop their dog approaching mine and undoing all the work I'd put in with my dog. And 9 times out of 10 their dog was not as friendly as they thought either.

Nor do I want my dog practising snarking at other dogs. Firstly, I didn't get him so he could teach manners to out of control dogs. Secondly, I don't want him put in the position where he feels he needs to defend himself.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

mattcollie said:


> i sometimes think society has gone a bit bonkers. i let my dog off the lead and yes at times he is going to approach another dog. He is not aggressive and just interested. I think its crazy to expect our dog just to ignore every dog that goes past. as long as we know our dog isn't aggressive theres no reason to. yes fair enough another dog might not be so friendly and snap at him. he soon learns to leave him alone then. When i was growing up and had dogs i never remeber people placing such hard expectations on their dogs and other people. I think people need to ease up and accept these are animals and we can't control their every move. I often think its owners that create the problem and not the dog. being so wound up and nervy when another dog approaches certainly doesn't help the dog. also immediately putting a dog on a lead when another dog approaches often doesn't help the dog as he then feels trapped and worries that he does have something to be scared about, therefore reacting.
> 
> This is only my opinion and personal experience. good luck


Personally, I dont think it's crazy to expect my dogs to ignore every dog that goes past. I'm a firm believer that since I work hard to afford my dogs the lifestyle they have in terms of diet, veterinary care, training, exercise etc, then I should be the centre of their world. It's a fact that I am the most important person in their life without a shadow of a doubt and, call me egotistical if you like, I want my dogs to acknowledge that. I have 2 dogs that can walk right past another dog even a foot away and not even look at it. They may show interest if they have nothing else to occupy them but that rarely happens as they are usually engrossed in something else. The third dog is a bit of an independent so and so and I have to work harder with him.
So yes, I absolutely expect my dogs to ignore others, in fact I insist on it unless we are on a group walk or I give them the ok to greet.

A dog snapping at another dog doesnt always have the desired effect. Some dogs see it as a bit of a game and come back for more, some dogs may see it as a challenge and start a scuffle. Therefore they learn nothing positive and the dog doing the snapping is the one to suffer if they are anxious or find it difficult to deal with the advance of a strange dog. Then the next time the same situation arises, the reaction has escalated a little bit more. Not every dog is naturally sociable or confident, no matter how many dogs they meet. One of my dogs has been to classes all his life - agility, gundog, obedience - has lived with other dogs all his life too, but still doesnt like his space invaded or is comfortable dealing with new or strange dogs. I've always worked with the public but i'm far from sociable, assertive or confident 

I think many problems of dogs going over to other dogs could be cured if the owner actually paid their hound some attention, played games, did some training or engaged with their dog in a constructive way, then there would be no need for their dog to seek entertainment elsewhere. I have to say that it's something quite rare to see an owner fully engaging with their dog on a walk. Most simply walk round with their head in the clouds or their mobile phone stuck to their ear whilst their dog is thinking "stuff this, you're boring, i'm off to wreak havoc with that pretty pooch across the other side of the park".

It's not quite as black and white as folk think.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

mattcollie said:


> i sometimes think society has gone a bit bonkers. i let my dog off the lead and yes at times he is going to approach another dog.* He is not aggressive *and just interested. I think its crazy to expect our dog just to ignore every dog that goes past. as long as we know our dog isn't aggressive theres no reason to. yes fair enough another dog might not be so friendly and snap at him. he soon learns to leave him alone then. When i was growing up and had dogs i never remeber people placing such hard expectations on their dogs and other people. I think people need to ease up and accept these are animals and we can't control their every move. I often think its owners that create the problem and not the dog. being so wound up and nervy when another dog approaches certainly doesn't help the dog. also immediately putting a dog on a lead when another dog approaches often doesn't help the dog as he then feels trapped and worries that he does have something to be scared about, therefore reacting.
> 
> This is only my opinion and personal experience. good luck


Really?

Then why did you post on another thread the following?

_I've had exactly the same problem with my rescue dog but three months down the line he's definetly getting better. i tried the treat thing etc to little result. the best thing for me has been taking him to obdience class. there we do a flooding exercise where we walk up and down past dogs he reacts to. we use a collar that you can pull upwards whenever he reacts. _

I am finding it difficult to reconcile these two posts.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2012)

mattcollie said:


> I think its crazy to expect our dog just to ignore every dog that goes past.


I think the opposite is crazy.
Do you shake hands and introduce yourself to every person you pass on the street? Do you even acknowledge everyone you pass? I dont. If its in my neighborhood or a park with few people, sure, you might nod or say hello. But most people who live in cities walk by each other with minimal if any acknowledgement. In other words, they ignore each other.

Maybe MY dog wants to ignore yours and yours is doing the dog equivalent of grabbing my hand, vigorously shaking it, telling me his name and greeting me like a long lost best friend. I think youd find even the most stable humans would not take kindly to that approach. Dogs are no different.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

ouesi said:


> I think the opposite is crazy.
> Do you shake hands and introduce yourself to every person you pass on the street? Do you even acknowledge everyone you pass? I dont. If its in my neighborhood or a park with few people, sure, you might nod or say hello. But most people who live in cities walk by each other with minimal if any acknowledgement. In other words, they ignore each other.
> 
> Maybe MY dog wants to ignore yours and yours is doing the dog equivalent of grabbing my hand, vigorously shaking it, telling me his name and greeting me like a long lost best friend. I think youd find even the most stable humans would not take kindly to that approach. Dogs are no different.


I think many people have very unrealistic expectations because this seems to be exactly how they think dogs should behave. And god forbid you have one who isn't that sociable.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Surely it depends a bit on the dog?

I totally agree that no dog should be allowed to zoom over and bounce all over a dog that is on a lead or whose owner is clearly tense and unhappy with the strange dog's approach.

That said, no matter how engaging I am or try to be when at the park or on walks, I have a young Lab whose chief pleasure in life is greeting other dogs and playing with some of them. To me it seems totally natural that he takes a great interest in any dog that passes. Of course, it's down to me to ensure he can't approach every single dog, yes.


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

I wouldn't particularly want someone to give me a leaflet tbh.

I have sympathy, but I think I view this differently from most. My dog is dog reactive, but if we meet a dog and he reacts, if I can, I'll stop, I'll apologise and if the other person is willing /interested I'll stop and explain. During that time Zach will usually calm down, both dogs will start to ignore each other and I prevent Zach learning that his reaction = removal from the situation - which is what he's trying to achieve. If it's at all possible I try to prevent the behaviour being reinforced.

For the ones that I can't do this for either because they don't want to stop or either dog isn't likely to be easily calmed, then I'll apologise and move on - what does it matter what they think, my dog is under control albeit bad mannered , I've fulfilled my responsibilities and I've apologised - the rest is work in progress.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Shazach said:


> I wouldn't particularly want someone to give me a leaflet tbh.
> 
> I have sympathy, but I think I view this differently from most. My dog is dog reactive, but if we meet a dog and he reacts, if I can, I'll stop, I'll apologise and if the other person is willing /interested I'll stop and explain. During that time Zach will usually calm down, both dogs will start to ignore each other and I prevent Zach learning that his reaction = removal from the situation - which is what he's trying to achieve. If it's at all possible I try to prevent the behaviour being reinforced.
> 
> For the ones that I can't do this for either because they don't want to stop or either dog isn't likely to be easily calmed, then I'll apologise and move on - what does it matter what they think, my dog is under control albeit bad mannered , I've fulfilled my responsibilities and I've apologised - the rest is work in progress.


Great post 

And your sig pic makes me smile every time I look at it


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Great post
> 
> And your sig pic makes me smile every time I look at it


Thank you. Makes me smile too, I nicked it from Hounds for Heroes on Facebook. My charity of the year, a fantastic organisation.


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## ChatterPuss (Sep 4, 2010)

Samy said:


> I had an "experience" lastnight with a fellow dog owner, and it wasnt a nice one. I know that Dodge has his issues but I am working really hard and investing alot of money to try and give him the best support I can.
> 
> If you were out walking and had your dog had a bit of a shouting match with another dog would you mind if the other dog owner handed you a small leaflet with some history on the dog, just a brief "My dog is fear agressive, working with the behaviourist, etc (maybe even on the back the dog walking etiquet)"
> 
> ...


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Shazach said:


> Thank you. Makes me smile too, I nicked it from Hounds for Heroes on Facebook. My charity of the year, a fantastic organisation.



I totally agree, they are amazing. I was just reading about them in one of the dog mags the other day


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

mattcollie said:


> yes fair enough another dog might not be so friendly and snap at him. he soon learns to leave him alone then.


Yes but it's not only your dog's learning that is important in this situation is it?
The other dog also ends up learning that other dogs will ignore the more passive calming signals he gives off and that snapping is the best method of getting other dogs out of his space.

It's about being sensitive to how you and your dogs behaviour affects other people. 
If someone is clearly making the effort to keep their dog under threshold and out of trouble (often this means onlead), then it is rather unfair and bad manners to allow your offlead dog to approach just because your dog is "friendly". 
Often I find that owner's diagnosis of their dogs behaviour isn't so accurate from a behavioural POV. 
Some so called "extremely well socialized dogs and playful" dogs (who charge at other dogs, typically adult dogs who have rehearsed behaviour patterns stemming from hormonal changes in adolescence) are in fact rather over-aroused by other dogs and thus behave quite inappropriately and due to being wound up, do not accept more subtle signs from other dogs to back off!



> When i was growing up and had dogs i never remeber people placing such hard expectations on their dogs and other people. I think people need to ease up and accept these are animals and we can't control their every move.


True that we cannot control everything. But we can be responsible and consciencious both of our own dog's behaviour and how we affect others.

Also worth bearing in mind that in the past, more young animals were drowned at birth unwanted (yes still happens). Easy to look to the past with rose tinted glasses on!
The world of pet animal behaviour science has moved a big step in right direction in recent years, towards more positive and scientifically backed methods of training our animals. 

On the other end of the scale, you could consider that it may have been easier to socialize dogs generally in the past when their entry wasn't as restricted to certain areas.
Also considerably more people have dogs today. There is a greater dog population which is generally a rather densely populated one. With more dogs, living closer together in urban environments, we all need to be sensible and thoughtful of others to allow things to work as smoothly as possible?



> I often think its owners that create the problem and not the dog. being so wound up and nervy when another dog approaches certainly doesn't help the dog. also immediately putting a dog on a lead when another dog approaches often doesn't help the dog as he then feels trapped and worries that he does have something to be scared about, therefore reacting.


Oh I don't know I think that is a bit unfair? 

I don't know whether you've ever rehomed a fearful dog before?

One of my rescues had been beaten up and bullied by other dogs prior to us getting her and was consequently very frightened of strange dogs rapidly approaching and staring at her (each of these triggers had been precursors to them attacking or frightening her). 
After lots of work she is much better but will likely never totally relax with other dogs staring at her or harassing her or be happy with rude or pervy dogs invading her space (rather cope). 
A key aspect of any training and behaviour modification programme is management to avoid putting the dogs in situations that makes them feel sufficiently vulnerable and unsafe that they feel they have to revert to old undesirable coping strategies (reactivity or panic).

Often putting a dog on a lead or picking up their drag line and moving away from a situation, is better than having a bad experience.

I think it's very easy to be judgemental about any individual and the way they are dealing with a situation without actually stepping into their shoes and having that situation to be responsible for and all that comes with it. 
Often the judger doesn't look at all the other variables that have an affect on the situation!

Thinking about dog walking etiquette and being thoughtful of others on a walk is always good


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

My dogs are fine if approached when on lead, but my sister's dog is old and has arthritis and could be injured. It isn't just about fearful dogs. 

I wouldn't bother with a leaflet. As long as people can see that you are doing something about it most won't mind.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Jobeth said:


> My dogs are fine if approached when on lead, but my sister's dog is old and has arthritis and could be injured. It isn't just about fearful dogs.


Quite. 

I used the arthritic dog example further up too 
A dog may by unwell, may be epileptic and onlead in certain environments for health related reasons, a dog may be a scavenger, he may be lame, he/she may be recovering from "trivial" surgery like a neuter or something more invasive/serious.

The key is being consciencious and thoughtful towards others rather than just adopting a blasé approach of "oh he'll soon learn" or "we can't control everything"


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## ChatterPuss (Sep 4, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I thought from your posts on another thread that your dog is reactive though? Do you not worry that he'll meet another reactive dog and the excitement will spill into aggression? If he gets a snap and decides that he isn't going to tolerate it?


I have mixed feelings about your response. I can understand that you feel your dog is not aggressive or won't hurt another dog and feel you should allow him to stay off lead and go up to other dogs. However, other dogs don't know that! 
My dog is so fearful of other dogs since he was thrown to the floor inan unprovoked attacked by a dog that approached him off lead, that if your dog approached him he would freak out with fear and maybe snap! You would then say that it was MY dog at fault even though he is just protecting his personal space. 
It happened to me before, when I was doing some training with my dog after the attack and I could see another dog heading off lead straight for him....I shouted and asked the owner to call their dog away, who just laughed at me and kept walking letting his dog run straight up to mine. After weeks of effective training, this episode set him right back and ruined the rest of the walk for the day as he was so tense.
I understand that you know your dog and would like to give him his feedom, but others know their dogs too and the damage that this can do. I am not saying that you should always keep him on lead, but maybe just call him away and walk at a 
distance unless other owners say it is ok. This way everyone can effectively tain their dogs so that we can all get on happily and have sound, 
well behaved companions, and respectful dog owners.

NB.... For some reason this post has not quoted the full/correct section of the previous post I am reponding to!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ChatterPuss said:


> I have mixed feelings about your response. I can understand that you feel your dog is not aggressive or won't hurt another dog and feel you should allow him to stay off lead and go up to other dogs. However, other dogs don't know that!
> My dog is so fearful of other dogs since he was thrown to the floor inan unprovoked attacked by a dog that approached him off lead, that if your dog approached him he would freak out with fear and maybe snap! You would then say that it was MY dog at fault even though he is just protecting his personal space.
> It happened to me before, when I was doing some training with my dog after the attack and I could see another dog heading off lead straight for him....I shouted and asked the owner to call their dog away, who just laughed at me and kept walking letting his dog run straight up to mine. After weeks of effective training, this episode set him right back and ruined the rest of the walk for the day as he was so tense.
> I understand that you know your dog and would like to give him his feedom, but others know their dogs too and the damage that this can do. I am not saying that you should always keep him on lead, but maybe just call him away and walk at a
> ...


I don't allow my dog to approach others uninvited .


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Dogless said:


> I don't allow my dog to approach others uninvited .


I think she ment to quote the origional post about allowing dogs to approch each other and your response as well.

With regards to allowing dogs to approach on lead dogs its something I would never do and I would hope that people would not let their dog approach mine as Bosley would go insane and you would undo all the positive work i did with him, if your off lead dog approached Lexi when she was on lead and she was poorly, and her feet were red raw and blistered with her allergies you may find your dog gets a real telling off and she will be in a lot of pain, normally she is happy and friendly and luckily people around her know if she is on lead its because shes not well and if your off lead dog came running up to my parents dog, bouncing around you would get a real mouth full from me as at 16 years old deaf blind and arthritic that encounter could kill her!! Sometime a bit of consideration as to why a dog is on lead does wonders.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

LexiLou2 said:


> _I think she ment to quote the origional post about allowing dogs to approch each other and your response as well._
> 
> With regards to allowing dogs to approach on lead dogs its something I would never do and I would hope that people would not let their dog approach mine as Bosley would go insane and you would undo all the positive work i did with him, if your off lead dog approached Lexi when she was on lead and she was poorly, and her feet were red raw and blistered with her allergies you may find your dog gets a real telling off and she will be in a lot of pain, normally she is happy and friendly and luckily people around her know if she is on lead its because shes not well and if your off lead dog came running up to my parents dog, bouncing around you would get a real mouth full from me as at 16 years old deaf blind and arthritic that encounter could kill her!! Sometime a bit of consideration as to why a dog is on lead does wonders.


Just realised that . I am being a bit thick today!!


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