# Pretty disgusting intimidating behaviour from East Sussex Hunt



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Don't watch the video if you don't like bad language

This video is taken by Brighton hunt saboteurs on Saturday - the hunt followers are pretty aggressive right from the first encounter. The woman on the horse appears to be trying to use her horse to intimidate and move one of the male sabs away. When he doesn't go "back to the road" and grabs at her horse's reins (not sure if he trying to steady himself or stop her charging him) she hits him with her whip 17 times. I do hope the police are going to investigate such violent behaviour.

https://videos.metro.co.uk/video/me...798474993/640x360_MP4_1156662279798474993.mp4

I just love the bloke at the beginning saying "Get off this land you horrible common filthy scum" :Yawn:Yawn Do they seriously think everyone who objects to their bloodthirsty antics is common? :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

The uppity 81tch on the horse needs taking down a peg or two in a court of law.

Although I very much doubt this would ever happen, because some of her equally uppity, sick, twisted and vile friends would probably be sat on the bench.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

You have to wonder what they were intending to get up to that day to warrant such aggression from the outset, they really really wanted the sabs to go away :Hilarious


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## Eleora (Sep 25, 2017)

Wow the inner drive to kill a life for sport. What type of "human" has that?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Looks like a woman fearful for her horses safety to me. Very skillfully clipped video again


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I just love the bloke at the beginning saying "Get off this land you horrible common filthy scum" :Yawn:Yawn Do they seriously think everyone who objects to their bloodthirsty antics is common? :Hilarious:Hilarious


Who is it that says that though?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

The respect & admiration I feel for all the brave sabs is off the scale. What I feel for the knuckle dragging blood junkies is unprintable lol. God they are so vile. It sends shivers down my spine when I see a hunt, all I think of is the terror they inflict upon defenceless animals.


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

rona said:


> Looks like a woman fearful for her horses safety to me. Very skillfully clipped video again


Whereas to me there doesn't seem that much editing and from the start it looks like she's using the horse she is concerned about to intimidate the saboteurs. It just looks like he grabbed on to stop himself falling or to try and stop her ramming the horse into him. I don't think it would be likely they would try to injure the horse if they are trying to stop foxes being killed etc .

Shows the arrogance of the hunters for thinking they can do that sort of thing without repercussions.


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## Sproglet (Aug 25, 2017)

If she was so concerned about her horse, she wouldn't be hauling it by the mouth and kicking it's sides


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

rona said:


> Looks like a woman fearful for her horses safety to me. Very skillfully clipped video again


And how would you excuse the dangerous quad driving?

The guy fearful for his machine's safety, I suppose.

Can anyone smell class horse sh1t?


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

If I used a car like she used her horse I'd be facing some serious trouble! As for using the whip... that's assault, plain & simple.
Someone knows who she is....


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## Eleora (Sep 25, 2017)

The people who hunt foxes should dress up in a foxes uniform run arround a forrest, get chased by lunatics on horses, dogs and then torn to shreds to see if they feel pain. It would be so wonderful and the foxes would be happy.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

rona said:


> Looks like a woman fearful for her horses safety to me. Very skillfully clipped video again


Now how did I know you would say that :Hilarious:Hilarious If she were fearful for her horse's safety she would quite simply ride in the opposite direction not at them. Its shown from two different angles and both times she is clearly the aggressor who has lost control of her temper. Might understand if she hit out once but surely you can't think 17 lashes with a horse whip is not a criminal offence?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

MilleD said:


> Who is it that says that though?


The sort of arrogant tosser who thinks it OK to try and run someone down with their quad bike.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> When he doesn't go "back to the road" and grabs at her horse's reins (*not sure if he trying to steady himself or stop her charging him*) she hits him with her whip 17 times.


Yeah right. I'm pretty sure that you know damn well he is doing neither.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Satori said:


> Yeah right. I'm pretty sure that you know damn well he is doing neither.


You are quite wrong. As a previous horse owner and rider I do know she could easily extricate herself from that situation without resorting to violence. Out of interest what do you think he was holding onto the reins for?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> *Now how did I know you would say tha*t :Hilarious:Hilarious If she were fearful for her horse's safety she would quite simply ride in the opposite direction not at them. Its shown from two different angles and both times she is clearly the aggressor who has lost control of her temper. Might understand if she hit out once but surely you can't think 17 lashes with a horse whip is not a criminal offence?


Well I would have put my life savings on it

The hunters think they're above the law, because most of the time they are. Even though the horse womans violence is captured on camera she'll get away with it no doubt. These people are menace, they terrorise & destroy wild lives, put human lives in danger & abuse the animals they use for hunting.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

The Metro has reported the story. It says the police are investigating - I be amazed if the women even gets a caution, but we'll see. http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/20/hunt-...-on-horseback-charging-at-protesters-7092471/

Just look at the revolting ****ryside Alliance quote  No decent person believes a word these evil scumbags say. Lies, lies. lies.

_A Countryside Alliance spokesman said: 'As we have always known, the reality is that the anti-hunting movement is far more about the hatred of people who hunt than the love of animals.

'Hunts comply with the Hunting Act 2004 by trail-hunting and using other legal forms of exempt hunting however they are still plagued by balaclava-clad animal-rights activists who intimidate and harass hunt supporters and landowners. '

Throughout the hunting debate, those opposed to hunting from Ministerial level down, asserted that it was wholly an animal welfare measure and that they wanted hunts to continue hunting an artificial scent once the ban was in place yet it becomes more and more obvious that the primary aim of the anti-hunting movement is to get rid of people who hunt, rather than to improve animal welfare_.'

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/20/hunt-...k-charging-at-protesters-7092471/?ito=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

If there was no such thing as a criminal there would be no such thing as a police officer.

If there were no such thing as a fox hunter there would be no such thing as a saboteur.

Saboteurs are rural police officers.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> If there was no such thing as a criminal there would be no such thing as a police officer.
> 
> If there were no such thing as a fox hunter there would be no such thing as a saboteur.
> 
> Saboteurs are rural police officers.


Absolutely! Well said!

And just to add the rural police are very often complicit with the hunts, if they actually did their jobs sabs wouldn't need to go out putting themselves in danger to save lives.

Look at this recent incident involving Norfolk police, Zaros.

Here they are hitching a ride on a terriermans quad. Their first excuse was they got into difficulties in a muddy field Do they look muddy to you? They then changed their statement









Read this by wildlife photographer Richard Bowler on the incident. https://www.facebook.com/2166531185...6653118514528/832613446918489/?type=3&theater

Look at the beautiful pics of his stunning foxes - how could anyone wish to hurt them? Or defend those that do? Its a sick world we live in.

_A face that divides the nation. Except it's not a 50/50 split, in a democracy with over 80% of the population against fox hunting it should be a no brainer. Fox hunting should be resigned to the history books where it belongs. Unfortunately though, in our country, where people of the highest influence get pleasure from ripping these sentient beings apart with dogs, we have to play this charade cal...led trail hunting. This involves the hunt saying it's laid a fox based scent across the land, this part never happens by the way, but play along._

_The hunt then releases dogs, trained to follow fox scent and kill any poor creature that smells of the said scent, loose into the countryside. They then gallop after the said dogs, we also have people on quad bikes with terriers and shovels follow the hounds._

_The police aren't sure what these are for, but because they've been told it's trail hunting it must be ok and heck if the police get stuck in the mud they can hitch a lift on the quad bike. Batting for the 80%+ of the population we have members of the public, who want the law of the land upheld, they don't want foxes, deer, hares ripped to pieces by these hounds. They have not been hoodwinked by the hunt like the police, they see through the lies and do everything in their power to disrupt the hunt, their only aim is to save the lives of our innocent wildlife._

_Unfortunately for these people only the police have power of arrest. Before the hunt takes place the police are seen talking to the hunt members asking them what members of the other side need removing to make the game fair. Those people pointed out are then arrested.

Sounds far fetched_ doesn't it. _We'll it happened twice at the weekend_.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Absolutely! Well said!
> 
> And just to add the rural police are very often complicit with the hunts, if they actually did their jobs sabs wouldn't need to go out putting themselves in danger to save lives.
> 
> ...


You know what, Noush' society is corrupt at the foundations because those foundations were laid by the unscrupulous.

Police officers are supposed to remain neutral during confrontations. They're supposed to be there to prevent criminal acts being perpetrated not to assist in them.

Furthermore, I find it rather difficult to comprehend why anyone would openly defend/condone such behaviour/barbaric cruelty, on a site designed specifically for lovers of animals.
There has to be something deeply psychologically amiss with those who find sport/entertainment in terrorising animals to the death.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Of course hunt saboteurs are all angels aren't they, can do no wrong
They even wear masks to keep their faces clean

Everyone else is the devil incarnate


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sproglet said:


> If she was so concerned about her horse, she wouldn't be hauling it by the mouth and kicking it's sides


You've not noticed that they have surrounded her?

That looks like a woman in fear to me

how would you react if that happened to you and how would your horse react?


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

rona said:


> You've not noticed that they have surrounded her?
> 
> That looks like a woman in fear to me


I hate hunting, but if someone grabbed the reins of a horse I was riding, I'd [email protected] him too,


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

Forgive my ignorance ( I dont live in the UK so Im not up to date ) but I thought hunting was banned?


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## Sproglet (Aug 25, 2017)

rona said:


> You've not noticed that they have surrounded her?
> 
> That looks like a woman in fear to me
> 
> how would you react if that happened to you and how would your horse react?


Before the sabs were near her, she could have gone in the opposite direction. That's what I would have done (not that I would have ever gone hunting when I had horses). She used her horse as a battering ram and when the man grabbed her reins to stop her barging people, she then assaulted him. Very sad.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

dorrit said:


> Forgive my ignorance ( I dont live in the UK so Im not up to date ) but I thought hunting was banned?


If my memory serves me right, it was banned in 2005.

Yet some, those who believe it's a tradition by birthright and are, therefore, above the law, continue to organise these events in defiance.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Zaros said:


> If my memory serves me right, it was banned in 2005.
> 
> Yet some, those who believe it's a tradition by birthright and are, therefore, above the law, continue to organise these events in defiance.


How do you know they are actually hunting live animals?

Not defending them if they are, but these 'sabs' I find as obnoxious as the people they are 'protesting' against.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

MilleD said:


> *How do you know they are actually hunting live animals?*


Because I do. I have friends and acquaintances in the UK who are still quite active in the _'field'_ so to speak.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

rona said:


> You've not noticed that they have surrounded her?
> 
> That looks like a woman in fear to me
> 
> how would you react if that happened to you and how would your horse react?


Really?! I'd say the horse was in fear as it's rider was deliberately taking it towards people & then creating lots of noise & movement by assaulting them. If this woman really was in fear or concerned for her horse then why use it as a weapon?! Surely she could easily have moved away but she didn't....


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

dorrit said:


> Forgive my ignorance ( I dont live in the UK so Im not up to date ) but I thought hunting was banned?


It is banned. However there are still 'trail hunts'. If you ask a hunt nowadays what the are doing, they follow an artificial trail that is set out before they ride off, the dogs and riders don't know where the trail goes so it is supposed to mimic fox hunting. However, some of these trails go very close to actual fox territory and obviously if the foxhounds get the scent of a real fox... so be it.... 
Not to be confused with drag hunting where bloodhounds are used and a human (or non-animal) scent is followed (this has never involved killing foxes, drag hunting has been around as long as fox hunting). The hunt know where the scent has been set so there are no accidents as the course is known.

I'm definitely no fan of fox hunting.... or 'trail' hunting... Looking at the video I do think they're both slightly in the wrong though (the woman more than the sab i guess). That woman shouldn't have come over and definitely should NOT have ridden her horse at anyone. The horse did seem quite wound up already though... But I would NOT be happy if someone grabbed the reins of a horse I was riding like that. The whipping was completely unnecessary and over the top.


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## Biffo (Mar 14, 2016)

The woman didn't look frightened, she looked angry. 

I'm from farming country, foxes are killed, but no one I know enjoys it, it's a necessary evil to protect the lambs, not a great day out.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

So they call themselves saboteurs and wear balaclavas (didn’t look particularly chilly so presume they weren’t for warmth). Yes I can see that in no way suggests they were there for no other reason than peaceful protest and legal activities 

These idiots regularly turn up at a local and perfectly legal drag hunt causing upset to the riders (often children) and animals. If they KNOW there is a illegal fox hunt about to take place report it and protest if you wish, get your own quad bike and film them in the act so you have evidence. But don’t just turn up at legal events dressed like a bank robber harassing innocent people. Idiots.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

I have to say, unlike its rider, the horse was amazingly well behaved throughout.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Just watched it again to double check. I’m not sure what their days activities were, but from all the “evidence” in the video it certainly wasn’t fox hunting.


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

MilleD said:


> I hate hunting, but if someone grabbed the reins of a horse I was riding, I'd [email protected] him too,


Yep - that pretty much sums it up for me too (although I would never use a horse as a weapon as this "lady" did).


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> Really?! I'd say the horse was in fear as it's rider was deliberately taking it towards people & then creating lots of noise & movement by assaulting them. If this woman really was in fear or concerned for her horse then why use it as a weapon?! Surely she could easily have moved away but she didn't....


That is how I interpreted her actions too.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

rona said:


> You've not noticed that they have surrounded her?
> 
> That looks like a woman in fear to me
> 
> how would you react if that happened to you and how would your horse react?


She rode her horse purposefully at them. If I was concerned for my horse I would not ride it directly at the thing I was supposedly concerned about. She is a countryside thug who feels entitled to order people around. I hope she is punished.



MilleD said:


> I hate hunting, but if someone grabbed the reins of a horse I was riding, I'd [email protected] him too,


What 17 times? then come back for more?



MilleD said:


> How do you know they are actually hunting live animals?
> 
> Not defending them if they are, but these 'sabs' I find as obnoxious as the people they are 'protesting' against.


How many sabs do you actually know? What exactly are the sabs doing that you find obnoxious?



Dr Pepper said:


> So they call themselves saboteurs and wear balaclavas (didn't look particularly chilly so presume they weren't for warmth). Yes I can see that in no way suggests they were there for no other reason than peaceful protest and legal activities
> 
> These idiots regularly turn up at a local and perfectly legal drag hunt causing upset to the riders (often children) and animals. If they KNOW there is a illegal fox hunt about to take place report it and protest if you wish, get your own quad bike and film them in the act so you have evidence. But don't just turn up at legal events dressed like a bank robber harassing innocent people. Idiots.


Perhaps, just perhaps they try to cover their faces so that the foul people who follow the hunt and behave like madam on the horse don't know who they are so they can intimidate them or their families. You know like hang dead animals from their front doors, cos that is really funny and really clever. The other problem is these so called legal events are often a cover for something else so unless you have feet on the ground following them how would you know what they intend to get up to.



Dr Pepper said:


> Just watched it again to double check. I'm not sure what their days activities were, but from all the "evidence" in the video it certainly wasn't fox hunting.


Well judging from their reaction I doubt it was something legal.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Bisbow said:


> Of course hunt saboteurs are all angels aren't they, can do no wrong
> They even wear masks to keep their faces clean
> 
> Everyone else is the devil incarnate


Yes I suspected during the General Election debate that you were a fan of the pink perverts.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yes I suspected during the General Election debate that you were a fan of the pink perverts.


Sarcasm dos not become you

I have never hunted foxes but have followed a trail hunt with not a sniff of a fox and your posts shows that you are a fan of the sab thugs

and not all perverts wear pink, some wear face masks


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Bisbow said:


> Sarcasm dos not become you
> 
> I have never hunted foxes but have followed a trail hunt with not a sniff of a fox and your posts shows that you are a fan of the sab thugs
> 
> and not all perverts wear pink, some wear face masks


Of course I am a fan of sabs, I'm married to someone who used to be one - a public school educated, successful professional business person not a thug. He is one of the most kind and gentle people you could hope to meet. This image of sabs being thugs is very outdated and goes back to the days when hunting was legal and there would be a big police presence which attracted anarchists who had little interest in saving foxes and were just there to cause trouble.

Sabs have good reason to cover their faces although not all sabs do. In my book tormenting small furry animals while dressed in a uniform equals a pervert, not genuine animal lovers giving up their time trying to save them but we clearly have different ideas of what a pervert is.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Of course I am a fan of sabs, I'm married to someone who used to be one - a public school educated, successful professional business person not a thug. He is one of the most kind and gentle people you could hope to meet. This image of sabs being thugs is very outdated and goes back to the days when hunting was legal and there would be a big police presence which attracted anarchists who had little interest in saving foxes and were just there to cause trouble.
> 
> Sabs have good reason to cover their faces although not all sabs do. In my book tormenting small furry animals while dressed in a uniform equals a pervert, not genuine animal lovers giving up their time trying to save them but we clearly have different ideas of what a pervert is.


As I said, I have followed the trail hounds so that makes me a pervert does it

Some of the followers were also well educated professional people, most better educated than I am
They were also kind hearted, animal lovers as well but according to you they are also perverts

Some sabs still go just to cause trouble and make themselves look like heros


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

We all know, well, at least some of us do, that a drag hunt and any other feintly disguised event, is just a devious cover for the main attraction/event. :Banghead


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Bisbow said:


> Some sabs still go just to cause trouble and make themselves look like heros


It's the same with any 'protest'; you'll get Rentamob along with the genuine ones. Everything is advertised on social media now so anyone can tag along whether it's a cause they support or not.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Of course I am a fan of sabs, I'm married to someone who used to be one - a public school educated, successful professional business person not a thug. He is one of the most kind and gentle people you could hope to meet. This image of sabs being thugs is very outdated and goes back to the days when hunting was legal and there would be a big police presence which attracted anarchists who had little interest in saving foxes and were just there to cause trouble.
> 
> Sabs have good reason to cover their faces although not all sabs do. In my book tormenting small furry animals while dressed in a uniform equals a pervert, not genuine animal lovers giving up their time trying to save them but we clearly have different ideas of what a pervert is.


That's all well and good with some very valid points. But keeping on topic and discussing this particular video it shows a bunch of balaclava wearing thugs trespassing and intimidating individuals going about a perfectly legal activity.

The thug that was hit with a crop seventeen times could have prevented it by just letting go of the reigns. Truth be told though you wouldn't feel the crop through a coat so he probably wasn't aware.

There simply is no need for these people to be confrontational. Thinking about my previous post saying follow on a quad and video it, forget that, get a drone and video them from the comfort of a nice warm car and avoid all confrontation. If you are right you have evidence to hand to the authorities, if you a wrong then no harm done.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Bisbow said:


> As I said, I have followed the trail hounds so that makes me a pervert does it
> 
> Some of the followers were also well educated professional people, most better educated than I am
> They were also kind hearted, animal lovers as well but according to you they are also perverts
> ...


No it doesn't make you a pervert unless you went with the intention of harming wildlife, if that has been your intention in the past then please say so, it it wasn't and you went genuinely believing you were following a scent, and when the dogs picked up a scent of a real fox or other wildlife you were totally confident that the hunt could control the dogs so those innocent creatures were not harmed then no I do not consider you a pervert. I don't believe I questioned the education or professional status of the hunters, I questioned their morals. I do not know any sab and never have known of any sab who goes to make themselves look like a hero - how does that work given their faces are covered?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

To be honest, I have never carried out any activity where I felt the need to wear a mask/face-covering.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> That's all well and good with some very valid points. But keeping on topic and discussing this particular video it shows a bunch of balaclava wearing thugs trespassing and intimidating individuals going about a perfectly legal activity.
> 
> The thug that was hit with a crop seventeen times could have prevented it by just letting go of the reigns. Truth be told though you wouldn't feel the crop through a coat so he probably wasn't aware.
> 
> There simply is no need for these people to be confrontational. Thinking about my previous post saying follow on a quad and video it, forget that, get a drone and video them from the comfort of a nice warm car and avoid all confrontation. If you are right you have evidence to hand to the authorities, if you a wrong then no harm done.


No need to keep on topic, I started the thread and I'm more than happy for it to discuss the broader issue of hunting whilst pretending not to. Another person calling them thugs so I'll ask you how many sabs do you know? When we had our stables and horses people automatically assumed we were hunters or at the very least supporters and were shocked to hear we not only did not agree with their vile "sport" but that my OH had previously been a sab.

I think you must have watched a different video to me because the only intimidation I saw was from the "thugs" on quad bikes and horses. What intimidation by the sabs did you see? How is following the hunt on foot to observe and film their behaviour being a thug? You are right there is no need to be confrontational - no need to ride a quad bike at people aggressively or use your horse (one you care about anyway) at people and certainly no need nor excuse to use your whip 17 times.

I've thought about donating a drone for the sabs purposes but the problem with that is you are too far away to help any animal you see about to get mauled, personally I can't think of anything worse than sitting in my nice warm car and watching on a screen while they rip a fox to pieces, I would far rather be there and at least stand some chance of disrupting it.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No need to keep on topic, I started the thread and I'm more than happy for it to discuss the broader issue of hunting whilst pretending not to. Another person calling them thugs so I'll ask you how many sabs do you know? When we had our stables and horses people automatically assumed we were hunters or at the very least supporters and were shocked to hear we not only did not agree with their vile "sport" but that my OH had previously been a sab.
> 
> I think you must have watched a different video to me because the only intimidation I saw was from the "thugs" on quad bikes and horses. What intimidation by the sabs did you see? How is following the hunt on foot to observe and film their behaviour being a thug? You are right there is no need to be confrontational - no need to ride a quad bike at people aggressively or use your horse (one you care about anyway) at people and certainly no need nor excuse to use your whip 17 times.
> 
> I've thought about donating a drone for the sabs purposes but the problem with that is you are too far away to help any animal you see about to get mauled, personally I can't think of anything worse than sitting in my nice warm car and watching on a screen while they rip a fox to pieces, I would far rather be there and at least stand some chance of disrupting it.


In this particular video it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Trouble is half of them had no reason or right to be on the private land. If they hadn't been there then there would have been no confrontation. As I said before target fox hunts if you KNOW that's what they are. Leave everyone else alone.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Zaros said:


> We all know, well, at least some of us do, that a drag hunt and any other feintly disguised event, is just a devious cover for the main attraction/event. :Banghead


Rubbish
I said I have never had as much as a sniff of a fox when I followed the hounds, no cover at all, a good ride over lovely country side and with nice people


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Bisbow said:


> *I said I have never had as much as a sniff of a fox when I followed the hounds,* no cover at all, a good ride over lovely country side and with nice people


Is this some form of accidental admission that were actually out for a fox then?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> In this particular video it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Trouble is half of them had no reason or right to be on the private land. If they hadn't been there then there would have been confrontation. As I said before target fox hunts if you KNOW that's what they are. Leave everyone else alone.


No it isn't Dr Pepper, please tell me what the sabs have done in this video that is equal to being driven at aggressively by men on quad bikes and equal to having a horse purposefully ridden at you and equal to being hit with a whip 17 times? Being on private land is not an acceptable reason I'm afraid. My back garden is private land but I am not allowed to hit someone 17 times or set my dogs on someone who happens to be in my garden. As I said before how would you KNOW they are out to target foxes if you are not there following them?



Bisbow said:


> Rubbish
> I said I have never had as much as a sniff of a fox when I followed the hounds, no cover at all, a good ride over lovely country side and with nice people


OK now we are getting closer to the truth and now I understand your position in the GE discussions


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Zaros said:


> Is this some form of accidental admission that were actually out for a fox then?


No it does not, I have never hunted foxes only followed aniseed trail that is not a foxy smell, so stop trying to make out I am a secret fox hunter


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> OK now we are getting closer to the truth and now I understand your position in the GE discussions


I don't understand what you are getting at by that post


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Bisbow said:


> No it does not, I have never hunted foxes only followed aniseed trail that is not a foxy smell, so stop trying to make out I am a secret fox hunter


It's not my place to make accusations on this forum and, unlike many, I never have.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No it isn't Dr Pepper, please tell me what the sabs have done in this video that is equal to being driven at aggressively by men on quad bikes and equal to having a horse purposefully ridden at you and equal to being hit with a whip 17 times? Being on private land is not an acceptable reason I'm afraid. My back garden is private land but I am not allowed to hit someone 17 times or set my dogs on someone who happens to be in my garden. As I said before how would you KNOW they are out to target foxes if you are not there following them?
> 
> OK now we are getting closer to the truth and now I understand your position in the GE discussions


As I said if muppet hadn't grabbed the reigns he wouldn't have been touched. Also as I said he wouldn't have felt the crop and was probably unaware, he should still have let go though when asked.

So if you had a thug in a balaclava come up to you in a aggressive fashion, who then grabbed you so you couldn't retreat and wouldn't let go you would just stand there and do nothing?

Also the fact they had no right or reason to be there is being overlooked. They went there with no evidence or knowledge as to what was going on to cause trouble.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

The rider lost her temper because the Sabs were ignoring the instruction by the Hunt for them to get back on the lane (and presumably private land). 

She then decided to ride at the Sabs (presumably to intimidate them) and the guy grabbed the reins in an effort to stop her doing that - the horse was right next to him at this point.

The rider was already pulling and jagging the horse's mouth before he took the rein in his hand so she was doing more harm than him ime. She was also digging it in the ribs with her spurs in her hysteria.

As a horsewoman she would be well aware that her behaviour will have scared her horse. Far better if she had stood it still and asked the man to just let go. But then, she was the aggressor IMO and he wanted to just stop the horse before he was knocked over and trampled.

I noted too that the rider turned her whip over so the hard handle would have hit the man, rather than the leather thong. 

Even after the guy let go and it seemed to quiet down she turned back and ran her horse at the Sabs again. The other guy on horseback, by comparison, was perfectly calm and controlled.

If the Sabs had good reason to believe the Hunt were breaking the law (or about to) then they have my blessing for being there tbh.

If the Hunt were acting within the law why didn't they just carry on with their drag hunt as the Sabs seemed to me to be behind the action so were they actually interfering with anything?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> As I said if muppet hadn't grabbed the reigns he wouldn't have been touched. Also as I said he wouldn't have felt the crop and was probably unaware, he should still have let go though when asked.
> 
> So if you had a thug in a balaclava come up to you in a aggressive fashion, who then grabbed you so you couldn't retreat and wouldn't let go you would just stand there and do nothing?
> 
> Also the fact they had no right or reason to be there is being overlooked. They went there with no evidence or knowledge as to what was going on to cause trouble.


Firstly how do you know he is a muppet? that is a gross generalisation and assumption on your part. He could be a doctor, a lawyer or a dog walker for all you know  Secondly the report from the police states

"the victim was reported to have received a bruise and bump to the head, but did not require medical treatment"

I think he might have felt a bruise and a bump to the head.

She did not have a thug in a balaclava come up to her in an aggressive fashion, she rode her horse purposefully at the sabs whilst obnoxiously ordering them to leave, she used her horse as a weapon to knock him over. If he had not grabbed at the reins he may have ended up on the ground where no doubt she would have "accidentally allowed" her horse to trample him possibly resulting in serious internal injuries. Of course you are overlooking the fact that she could indeed retreat but purposefully came back for more.

Finally how do you know what evidence the sabs had about what was going to take place?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Bisbow said:


> No it does not, I have never hunted foxes only followed aniseed trail that is not a foxy smell, so stop trying to make out I am a secret fox hunter


The hunt in question wasn't following an aniseed trail Bisbow. Trail hunts follow a trail made from fox urine because they want hounds to 'accidentally' chase & kill foxes. Trail hunts are killing foxes with impunity, that's why sabs are still having to sab.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Zaros said:


> We all know, well, at least some of us do, that a drag hunt and any other feintly disguised event, is just a devious cover for the main attraction/event. :Banghead


Think you mean 'trail hunt', Zaros. Drag hunting has been around for centuries if memory serves, and has always used a non-animal scent trail.

Trail hunting is the version which uses animal scents and is prone to - er - 'accidents'

Not watched the video, don't intend to. That being said, anyone grabbing a horse I'm riding without prior invitation to do so or a very good reason would get a pretty strong reaction from me if they didn't let go pronto.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> You know what, Noush' society is corrupt at the foundations because those foundations were laid by the unscrupulous.
> 
> Police officers are supposed to remain neutral during confrontations. They're supposed to be there to prevent criminal acts being perpetrated not to assist in them.
> 
> ...


A lot of the time the police are just the arm of the establishment. You should see how they've been treating the fracking protestors in Yorkshire. They are behaving like thugs.

_Furthermore, I find it rather difficult to comprehend why anyone would openly defend/condone such behaviour/barbaric cruelty, on a site designed specifically for lovers of animals _This is something I've always struggled with. I was so naïve when I joined this forum for actually believing all the members on it would be animal lovers.




Bisbow said:


> Of course hunt saboteurs are all angels aren't they, can do no wrong
> They even wear masks to keep their faces clean
> 
> Everyone else is the devil incarnate


Sabs wear masks for fear of retribution & because they break minor trespass laws - hunt scum wear masks because they're a bunch of lawless thugs.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Dr Pepper said:


> As I said if muppet hadn't grabbed the reigns he wouldn't have been touched.


Let me tell you what I know about the joys of horse ownership. If you want to stop/prevent a head strong horse from walking/trotting on or ahead, you take a firm hold of its bridle, preferably close to the bit (that's the piece that goes into the horse's mouth and helps communication between animal and rider) and direct it. Taking hold of one side of the reins works in pretty much the same way.
If someone deliberately rode their horse at me, I'd adopt this tactic to take control of the situation to avoid being injured.

The woman deliberately put the horse in a stressful situation, no one else.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

So according to the hunt's own comments the rider should be disciplined :Hilarious:Hilarious

An East Sussex and Romney Marsh Hunt spokesperson said, “The East Sussex and Romney Marsh Hunt does not condone any form of violence even when faced with extreme provocation, personal harassment and other offences.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Jesthar said:


> Think you mean 'trail hunt', Zaros. Drag hunting has been around for centuries if memory serves, and has always used a non-animal scent trail.
> 
> Trail hunting is the version which uses animal scents and is prone to - er - 'accidents'
> 
> Not watched the video, don't intend to. That being said, anyone grabbing a horse I'm riding without prior invitation to do so or a very good reason would get a pretty strong reaction from me if they didn't let go pronto.


Can I respectfully ask that you do watch the video so that you can see that he did indeed have good reason to grab the reins (not the horse). He was being ridden at by a mad woman who had lost control of herself and her temper.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> The hunt in question wasn't following an aniseed trail Bisbow. Trail hunts follow a trail made from fox urine because they want hounds to 'accidentally' chase & kill foxes. Trail hunts are killing foxes with impunity, that's why sabs are still having to sab.


This is what confuses me.

If fox hunting is not allowed why are they allowed to use fox scent?

By now all the working hounds should be completely trained to only follow a specific laid scent and avoid the scent of a fox altogether.

If hounds truly are "accidentally" tracking, flushing, chasing and killing foxes, despite the hunt staff trying desperately to call them off (yeah, right!) clearly they are not safe to be let loose in large packs in the countryside at all?

Banning large groups of dogs (max. of 2) would make it easier to control these unfortunate "accidents"?

Also, I wonder what was in the box on the back of the quad bikes? Terriers maybe? Why would they be needed on a trail hunt?


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Also, I wonder what was in the box on the back of the quad bikes? Terriers maybe? Why would they be needed on a trail hunt?


And do trail hunts need to take a spade with them?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Can I respectfully ask that you do watch the video so that you can see that he did indeed have good reason to grab the reins (not the horse). He was being ridden at by a mad woman who had lost control of herself and her temper.


No. Not unless they publish uncut, unedited footage of the previous ten minutes too. I'm buying no pigs in pokes from either side of this particular can of worms.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

*South Coast Hunt Sabs added 5 new photos.*
19 November at 07:46 ·
Hunting as a pastime is of course violent, and it seems that they transpose this to all the problems they encounter. *This week saw us with the East Sussex & Romney Marsh and this violent bunch met our expectations and more. The hunt was at Montague, the scene where back in 1999 a group of sabs were attacked by 40 masked men armed with pick axe handles who beat up the 6 sabs and threw them into an icy drainage ditch.* This day there were more sabs and fewer terrier men but the actions were similar.

Linking up with Brighton sabs we were ready for a difficult and wet day. The hunt support started by blocking roads with vehicles forcing sabs to take to foot, they followed this us by riding quads dangerously close to sabs. Naturally the best option as then to take to the fields to follow the hunt and avoid the quads. As usual their understanding of the laws of the land are limited and just because they have permission to use any land does not give them the right to eject people, but that wasn't going to stop them. We suspect they are just not bright enough to understand this distinction. At this point a rider intervened riding her horse at sabs until one in self-defence grabbed the bridle, which then resulted in a flurry of blows (seventeen) to the sab's head and arms with her whip. She rode away only to come back and try it all again.
The terrier men quad bikes bikes had spades and terriers on them, with digging out illegal under the act they were challenged. They reply was they could use the game keeper's exemption under the act to protect shooting estates. Of course this is the Pevensey marshes and has no such estates plus you cannot use that exemption while following a hunt. Needless to say this hunt was not laying a trail anyway. Again we expect the details of the law escapes their pea brains, but then they may just be ignoring it…who knows?

Back on the road the drivers were having to avoid some dangerous driving by car supporters to avoid collisions by mounting verges, this is why Land Rovers are so vital to us.

We carried on thru what was now driving rain and the riders started to drift off home. Sussex cops turned up but just took names of those who had been assaulted. The hunt carried on until dusk with sabs keeping a watchful eye and no kills happened due to our presence.

Any donations to help us with our land rover repairs as always appreciated.

Please help if you can by donating at:

South Coast Hunt Sabs
https://www.paypal.me/SouthCoastHuntSabs
We are always looking for new sabs, so if you are interested please message us or email: [email protected]


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## planete (Jan 21, 2012)

There is a longer version of the video here:


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> Think you mean 'trail hunt', Zaros. Drag hunting has been around for centuries if memory serves, and has always used a non-animal scent trail.
> 
> Trail hunting is the version which uses animal scents and is prone to - er - 'accidents'
> 
> Not watched the video, don't intend to. That being said, anyone grabbing a horse I'm riding without prior invitation to do so or a very good reason would get a pretty strong reaction from me if they didn't let go pronto.


If you watched the video you would see that the horse was ridden aggressively and repeatedly at the man before he took hold of it's reins.

I'm not sure your opinion counts if you haven't watched the exact actions under discussion.

The man did not just randomly grab the horse's reins for no reason


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> This is what confuses me.
> 
> If fox hunting is not allowed why are they allowed to use fox scent?
> 
> ...


Exactly.

And you hit the nail on the head with the terrier men. You don't go hunting with terrier men unless you are going with intent to kill foxes.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Jesthar said:


> Think you mean 'trail hunt', Zaros. Drag hunting has been around for centuries if memory serves, and has always used a non-animal scent trail.
> Trail hunting is the version which uses animal scents and is prone to - er - 'accidents'


I'm aware that both types of events have been prone to - er - 'accidents'

Why can't folks just have a nice ride through the countryside without all the unnecessary dubiety?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Jesthar said:


> No. Not unless they publish uncut, unedited footage of the previous ten minutes too. I'm buying no pigs in pokes from either side of this particular can of worms.


Fair enough but how can you comment on the actions of someone when you haven't watched it?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

_Nobody said it better...._than Roger Moore.
_
Sport hunting is a sickness a perversion and a danger...
_


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Lurcherlad said:


> Also, I wonder what was in the box on the back of the quad bikes? Terriers maybe? Why would they be needed on a trail hunt?


Between 39-41 seconds , as box with holes in is driven past, a brown muzzle can clearly be seen poking out. It looks too square for a fox, probably is terrier, but maybe somebody techy can freeze frame and focus properly?
Suspect was a dog not fox or would havw been smelt and challenged by sabs. I still have a stinky right hand from moving a teenager from the road to verge this morning- poor thing was gone, but I don't like seeing them squashed , and less danger to kites etc to scavenge on verge than the road.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

noushka05 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> And you hit the nail on the head with the terrier men. You don't go hunting with terrier men unless you are going with intent to kill foxes.


And what was in the other boxes?

And what exactly were they hunting the foxes with?

Disclaimer
I've only viewed the video on my phone so there be distant images I've missed, I've looked pretty hard though.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Catharinem said:


> Between 39-41 seconds , as box with holes in is driven past, a brown muzzle can clearly be seen poking out. It looks too square for a fox, probably is terrier, but maybe somebody techy can freeze frame and focus properly?
> Suspect was a dog not fox or would havw been smelt and challenged by sabs. I still have a stinky right hand from moving a teenager from the road to verge this morning- poor thing was gone, but I don't like seeing them squashed , and less danger to kites etc to scavenge on verge than the road.


Yes I noticed that nose too. My post #68 above which is an account of the day mentions the terrier men on quad bikes had dogs. I'm not sure why they need terriers to follow a fake scent


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> And what was in the other boxes?
> 
> And what exactly were they hunting the foxes with?
> 
> ...


Can you explain why they need terrier men and terriers to follow a scent?


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Can you explain why they need terrier men and terriers to follow a scent?


They don't. Unless I've missed the obvious they are not even drag hunting.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> They don't. Unless I've missed the obvious they are not even drag hunting.


So what are they doing?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> If you watched the video you would see that the horse was ridden aggressively and repeatedly at the man before he took hold of it's reins.
> 
> I'm not sure your opinion counts if you haven't watched the exact actions under discussion.
> 
> The man did not just randomly grab the horse's reins for no reason


Because unless the video footage is unedited and contains the full build up to the event, I won't be watching the exact actions under discussion. Context is extremely important in these cases. It is very easy to make footage say whatever you want it to say depending on how you present it. If the sabs want to publish the full unedited video stream, complete with embedded metadata and timestamps, it would be worth a watch. Otherwise, I am only seeing what someone of a predetermined viewpoint wants me to see. The same would apply to any footage provided by a hunt. I'm picky like that.



rottiepointerhouse said:


> Fair enough but how can you comment on the actions of someone when you haven't watched it?


I wasn't commenting on their actions as I haven't seen them. I simply stated anyone interfering with a horse I was riding in that manner would, under relevant circumstances, get what for.

A horse is a flight animal, but it is also an 'into pressure' animal, and in close circumstances can react towards the source of stress, not shy away from it as people tend to expect, particularly if experiencing conflicting signals - from, say, rider and a rein grabber. I would (almost) never presume to grab the bridle of another horse without invitation from the rider due to the danger it may present for all involved - me, horse, rider, bystanders. And if I did get asked to take the reins, I would do my best to ensure I got both of them and applied equal pressure, or you can end up with a wildly spinning horse that could easily send people flying. So as far as I am concerned, an unknown someone grabbing the of my horse reins without invitation is a safety threat to all around them, barring exceptional circumstances.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So what are they doing?


I'm not sure what the horses are doing, could be a number of unrelated things. But with no hounds they can't possible be hunting.

What do you see on the quads, a box with almost certainly a terrier in it and a bit of digging gear. Another quad has two more boxes on (think it was two) which more than likely had ferrets in. That's rabbiting gear.

As I said I've only watched it on my phone so if there is a pack of hounds in the distance then I have it wrong.


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## Sproglet (Aug 25, 2017)

@Jesthar. If you rode your horse deliberately at me, using it as a weapon, I would take hold of the reins to protect myself.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Jesthar said:


> Because unless the video footage is unedited and contains the full build up to the event, I won't be watching the exact actions under discussion. Context is extremely important in these cases. It is very easy to make footage say whatever you want it to say depending on how you present it. If the sabs want to publish the full unedited video stream, complete with embedded metadata and timestamps, it would be worth a watch. Otherwise, I am only seeing what someone of a predetermined viewpoint wants me to see. The same would apply to any footage provided by a hunt. I'm picky like that.
> 
> I wasn't commenting on their actions as I haven't seen them. I simply stated anyone interfering with a horse I was riding in that manner would, under relevant circumstances, get what for.
> 
> A horse is a flight animal, but it is also an 'into pressure' animal, and in close circumstances can react towards the source of stress, not shy away from it as people tend to expect, particularly if experiencing conflicting signals - from, say, rider and a rein grabber. I would (almost) never presume to grab the bridle of another horse without invitation from the rider due to the danger it may present for all involved - me, horse, rider, bystanders. And if I did get asked to take the reins, I would do my best to ensure I got both of them and applied equal pressure, or you can end up with a wildly spinning horse that could easily send people flying. So as far as I am concerned, an unknown someone grabbing the of my horse reins without invitation is a safety threat to all around them, barring exceptional circumstances.


But without viewing the video you are not privy to the way the horse rider rode at the people on the ground and used her whip 17 times (which has not been disputed by the hunt followers by the way) nor do you see her come back a second time to further use her horse as a ram raider. Can't say in all my years of owning and riding horses I cam across one who was "into pressure" apart from a stroppy stallion an acquaintance owned.



Dr Pepper said:


> I'm not sure what the horses are doing, could be a number of unrelated things. But with no hounds they can't possible be hunting.
> 
> What do you see on the quads, a box with almost certainly a terrier in it and a bit of digging gear. Another quad has two more boxes on (think it was two) which more than likely had ferrets in. That's rabbiting gear.
> 
> As I said I've only watched it on my phone so if there is a pack of hounds in the distance then I have it wrong.


I can't imagine that the East Sussex and Romney Marsh Hunt have turned out in full dress on horse back to watch rabbiting :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jesthar said:


> Because unless the video footage is unedited and contains the full build up to the event, I won't be watching the exact actions under discussion. Context is extremely important in these cases. It is very easy to make footage say whatever you want it to say depending on how you present it. If the sabs want to publish the full unedited video stream, complete with embedded metadata and timestamps, it would be worth a watch. Otherwise, I am only seeing what someone of a predetermined viewpoint wants me to see. The same would apply to any footage provided by a hunt. I'm picky like that.
> 
> I wasn't commenting on their actions as I haven't seen them. I simply stated anyone interfering with a horse I was riding in that manner would, under relevant circumstances, get what for.
> 
> A horse is a flight animal, but it is also an 'into pressure' animal, and in close circumstances can react towards the source of stress, not shy away from it as people tend to expect, particularly if experiencing conflicting signals - from, say, rider and a rein grabber. I would (almost) never presume to grab the bridle of another horse without invitation from the rider due to the danger it may present for all involved - me, horse, rider, bystanders. And if I did get asked to take the reins, I would do my best to ensure I got both of them and applied equal pressure, or you can end up with a wildly spinning horse that could easily send people flying. So as far as I am concerned, an unknown someone grabbing the of my horse reins without invitation is a safety threat to all around them, barring exceptional circumstances.


It's like that other great bit of Sab footage with a sab being pushed and held in a ditch. Up in arms was everyone at that. What came to light later was that that sab had hit an elderly man and he was being removed from being able to do it again.

Then there's the one with fox remains after it had been ripped apart, however, there was no blood on surrounding foliage

Then the fox that hounds were supposed to have killed lifted onto a white horse by a huntsman, again no blood

Also the one they put up and then took down almost immediately that showed someone being beaten up on the ground, turned out it was a hunt woman being beaten up .................

The dead deer with live fawn said to have been hunted but ended up being a road kill

and on and on and on


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

rona said:


> It's like that other great bit of Sab footage with a sab being pushed and held in a ditch. Up in arms was everyone at that. What came to light later was that that sab had hit an elderly man and he was being removed from being able to do it again.
> 
> Then there's the one with fox remains after it had been ripped apart, however, there was no blood on surrounding foliage
> 
> ...


Oh I see, the mad woman on the horse who is clearly riding it at the sab and whips him 17 times is actually a sab and its all a big charade designed to discredit the wonderful caring members of the community who like to kill things :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> Because unless the video footage is unedited and contains the full build up to the event, I won't be watching the exact actions under discussion. Context is extremely important in these cases. It is very easy to make footage say whatever you want it to say depending on how you present it. If the sabs want to publish the full unedited video stream, complete with embedded metadata and timestamps, it would be worth a watch. Otherwise, I am only seeing what someone of a predetermined viewpoint wants me to see. The same would apply to any footage provided by a hunt. I'm picky like that.
> 
> I wasn't commenting on their actions as I haven't seen them. I simply stated anyone interfering with a horse I was riding in that manner would, under relevant circumstances, get what for.
> 
> A horse is a flight animal, but it is also an 'into pressure' animal, and in close circumstances can react towards the source of stress, not shy away from it as people tend to expect, particularly if experiencing conflicting signals - from, say, rider and a rein grabber. I would (almost) never presume to grab the bridle of another horse without invitation from the rider due to the danger it may present for all involved - me, horse, rider, bystanders. And if I did get asked to take the reins, I would do my best to ensure I got both of them and applied equal pressure, or you can end up with a wildly spinning horse that could easily send people flying. So as far as I am concerned, an unknown someone grabbing the of my horse reins without invitation is a safety threat to all around them, barring exceptional circumstances.


I understand what you mean, but it's clear the woman rode her horse at the man BEFORE he touched the reins.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I can't imagine that the East Sussex and Romney Marsh Hunt have turned out in full dress on horse back to watch rabbiting :Hilarious:Hilarious


It certainly doesn't look like a hunt, I can't make it out on the phone clearly but it looks no more than five or six horses. Where are the hounds? How do you hunt without hounds?

I didn't say they went to watch rabbiting.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Dr Pepper said:


> It certainly doesn't look like a hunt, I can't make it out on the phone clearly but it looks no more than five or six horses. Where are the hounds? How do you hunt without hounds?
> 
> I didn't say they went to watch rabbiting.


True I don't see any hounds, but the cameras are focused on a few individuals so would be easy to miss. If you watch on a tablet or laptop, towards the end of the video you can clearly see a lot more than 5 or 6 horses (over people shoulders). All dressed in their hunting gear. The camera is not all that clear so if there are hounds, they could be missed as they would be close to the ground where the camera is a bit fuzzy. The horses are clear as they stand out against the sky.

The hunt also seem to be standing a fair way from this incident, so it is possible that the hounds were also in the distance finding a scent.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Sproglet said:


> @Jesthar. If you rode your horse deliberately at me, using it as a weapon, I would take hold of the reins to protect myself.


And in a pulling match between you and three quarters of a ton of well muscled horse and excited horse who is also being aggravated/scared by someone hanging off their reins in the vicinity of their front legs, who is likely to win? Most horses will not trample another creature willingly, for as a prey animal that is dangerous as it risks their one defence mechanism - their legs and their ability to run. Even if you know what you are doing, hanging off the reins often leaves you more at risk of injury, not less, and there are usually plenty of less risky actions you can take.



rottiepointerhouse said:


> But without viewing the video you are not privy to the way the horse rider rode at the people on the ground and used her whip 17 times (which has not been disputed by the hunt followers by the way) nor do you see her come back a second time to further use her horse as a ram raider. Can't say in all my years of owning and riding horses I cam across one who was "into pressure" apart from a stroppy stallion an acquaintance owned.


"Into pressure" is a term I learned from Monty Roberts, and applies to all horses. It just probably doesn't mean what you think it means. Makes an interesting read 



Lurcherlad said:


> I understand what you mean, but it's clear the woman rode her horse at the man BEFORE he touched the reins.


Oh, I'm not disputing your word, or siding with anyone. I just want to know what happened before that, and then before that, and even further before that, not just the edited highlight.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Ok, watched it again. This is what I saw:-

Quads going past the masked people probably a bit fast. No horses in sight.

Next scene masked people in a field harassing a few horse riders, where have the quads gone? They are absent for some time whilst the riders are harassed.

Quad bikes turn up and and try and get the masked cowards to get back on footpath/road.

So would it be at all possible the masked cowards had been harassing the riders all along who then phoned for help hence the quads eagerness to get past the walkers on the road and to those in distress?


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Teddy-dog said:


> True I don't see any hounds, but the cameras are focused on a few individuals so would be easy to miss. If you watch on a tablet or laptop, towards the end of the video you can clearly see a lot more than 5 or 6 horses (over people shoulders). All dressed in their hunting gear. The camera is not all that clear so if there are hounds, they could be missed as they would be close to the ground where the camera is a bit fuzzy. The horses are clear as they stand out against the sky.
> 
> The hunt also seem to be standing a fair way from this incident, so it is possible that the hounds were also in the distance finding a scent.


I concede I need to see it on a bigger screen. But it's wearing a bit thin now I've seen it more times than the last episode of Breaking Bad.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Oh I see, the mad woman on the horse who is clearly riding it at the sab and whips him 17 times is actually a sab and its all a big charade designed to discredit the wonderful caring members of the community who like to kill things :Hilarious:Hilarious


And why not.
All's fair in love and war.

This is me and a couple of me mates one Saturday afternoon masquerading as a fox hunter on horse back.

Where's me mates I hear you ask.

Well now, they're the two 845t4rd5 in the horse costume refusing to jump the fence.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Ok, watched it again. This is what I saw:-
> 
> Quads going past the masked people probably a bit fast. No horses in sight.
> 
> ...


OK Dr Pepper, why don't you just come out and tell us your views on hunting?

The video recorder can't be in two places at once can it? If the girl with the video is walking where the quad bikes are how can she also be where the horse riders are at the same time? The quads are not only going fast they are being used aggressively.

How are the sabs in the field harassing the horse riders? Are they being violent towards them? Attacking them with whips? The quads are not in shot during the whipping incident but that doesn't mean they aren't there out of shot does it?

Cowards? Oh please, the only cowards I can see are those on horseback who use a whip on an unarmed person and want to go out killing things for fun. Why do you call someone a coward just because they want to keep their face covered?

Yes I'm sure the people on foot have chased and harassed the people on horseback (have you ever tried to outrun a person cantering or galloping on a horse?) so much so that the lovely "lady" could not contain herself and just had to set about them with a whip. She really looked in distress didn't she? Oh dear best laugh I've had all day :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Jesthar said:


> And in a pulling match between you and three quarters of a ton of well muscled horse and excited horse who is also being aggravated/scared by someone hanging off their reins in the vicinity of their front legs, who is likely to win? Most horses will not trample another creature willingly, for as a prey animal that is dangerous as it risks their one defence mechanism - their legs and their ability to run. *Even if you know what you are doing, hanging off the reins often leaves you more at risk of injury, not less, and there are usually plenty of less risky actions you can take.*
> 
> "Into pressure" is a term I learned from Monty Roberts, and applies to all horses. It just probably doesn't mean what you think it means. Makes an interesting read
> 
> Oh, I'm not disputing your word, or siding with anyone. I just want to know what happened before that, and then before that, and even further before that, not just the edited highlight.


That's all well and good - when you have the time and distance to think rationally ... but in the heat of the moment, when a horse is heading straight for you?


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> OK Dr Pepper, why don't you just come out and tell us your views on hunting?
> 
> The video recorder can't be in two places at once can it? If the girl with the video is walking where the quad bikes are how can she also be where the horse riders are at the same time? The quads are not only going fast they are being used aggressively.
> 
> ...


OK, just watched it on a bigger screen. Yes there is a hunt there.

My pont with the missing quads is how did the cowards (I say cowards because they don't have the courage to show their faces) get to the horses before the quads and for that period of time? There were obviously two cameras or editing. If the quads had been there would they just have sat back and watched for that time?

That chap being hit with the crop was holding the reigns no where need the bit, so all he was doing was taking 60% or so control of the horse away from the rider whilst gaining zero control himself. He had continued he could have been seriously hurt by a mostly out of control horse. The rider probably did him a favour.

As has been said we need to see the whole undetited video to get the full picture. Still no evidence it was a fox hunt, whitch hunt maybe.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

LinznMilly said:


> That's all well and good - when you have the time and distance to think rationally ... but in the heat of the moment, when a horse is heading straight for you?


Which is why my comments are meant to be educational, not critical - might just save someone getting hurt


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> OK, just watched it on a bigger screen. Yes there is a hunt there.
> 
> My pont with the missing quads is how did the cowards (I say cowards because they don't have the courage to show their faces) get to the horses before the quads and for that period of time? There were obviously two cameras or editing. If the quads had been there would they just have sat back and watched for that time?
> 
> ...


Do you call armed/anti terror police cowards because they cover their faces? Do you call women who cover their faces for religious reasons cowards? As Noush explained earlier they may cover their faces for fear of reprisals or because they are worried about losing their jobs. You keep on excusing the woman who used her whip not once but 17 times now you say she was doing him a favour.

I notice you didn't answer my question about your views on hunting but never mind I think you have made them perfectly clear


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Do you call armed/anti terror police cowards because they cover their faces? Do you call women who cover their faces for religious reasons cowards? As Noush explained earlier they may cover their faces for fear of reprisals or because they are worried about losing their jobs. You keep on excusing the woman who used her whip not once but 17 times now you say she was doing him a favour.
> 
> I notice you didn't answer my question about your views on hunting but never mind I think you have made them perfectly clear


Don't think you can say these people are in anyway the same as armed police. They cover their faces because they know they are doing wrong.

I did forget to give my views on hunting. Personally I enjoy the thrill of the chase, testing the stamina of fifty hounds a horses against the fox is truly exhilarating. The adrenaline rush if the dogs catch the fox before he goes to ground is unmatched. If the fox does go to ground watching him being dug out is a altogether other exciting experience. Then watching the first timers being bloodied is a frankly heart warming traditional moment. No of course I don't support hunting foxes on any level, but that's what you expected to hear right? I do however support the rights of people going about perfectly legal pastimes without balaclava wearing idiots preventing them.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Not Uk based advice but it's easily accessible

http://www.horsenation.com/2015/03/...se-know-how-to-protect-yourself-on-horseback/

Horse and Hound UK reported that on February 24, Lucy Lee was out riding her mare with only her two Corgis as company. A man on a bike stopped Lucy to request work and ask where she lived. He continued to harass her for over a mile, pushing his bike into the horse several times.

As a person who regularly hacks out alone, this story is the stuff of my nightmares. I have been honked at several times and occasionally people will even stop their vehicles and ask me questions about my horse. So what should we do if these minor annoyances become an actual attack?

Police have issued this advice:


Make sure someone always knows where you are going - planned route as well as an approximate time you expect to return.
Always carry a cell phone.
If someone grabs you, your saddle, or your reins move *FORWARD* as violent and as fast as possible *INTO THE ATTACKER*.
Never pull backwards. This could allow the attacker to pull off your bridle.
*SCREAM* "Get back!"
When the attacker is separated, ride hell for leather.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Dr Pepper said:


> I support the rights of people going about perfectly legal pastimes*.*


_
:Stop 'On the road from the City of Skepticism, I had to pass through the Valley of Ambiguity' _Adam Smith 1723 - 1790.:Smuggrin


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Dr Pepper said:


> Ok, watched it again. This is what I saw:-
> 
> Quads going past the masked people probably a bit fast. No horses in sight.
> 
> ...


The quads are following the horses, as a voice is saying `you nearly ** knocked me over` you can see the lead quad slow down as it approaches the horses, the camera pans around and more quads are seen following. The quad riders/passengers are clearly there when the women is being `harassed` they come running when her horse is held and she starts using her whip, they are also there when she decided to charge in again, she almost takes two of them out!!


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

rona said:


> Not Uk based advice but it's easily accessible
> 
> http://www.horsenation.com/2015/03/...se-know-how-to-protect-yourself-on-horseback/
> 
> ...


Sound advice I'm sure the women rider in the video was following it, she seems to have got confused with the last bit of advice though as it appears she thought it meant turn around and ride hell for leather back at your attacker!


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

3dogs2cats said:


> The quads are following the horses, as a voice is saying `you nearly ** knocked me over` you can see the lead quad slow down as it approaches the horses, the camera pans around and more quads are seen following. The quad riders/passengers are clearly there when the women is being `harassed` they come running when her horse is held and she starts using her whip, they are also there when she decided to charge in again, she almost takes two of them out!!


I didn't see any horses, but that was only on my phone, I didn't see the fifty or more horses either until I watched the end bit on a bigger screen! I think I need glasses or a bigger phone.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Don't think you can say these people are in anyway the same as armed police. They cover their faces because they know they are doing wrong.
> 
> I did forget to give my views on hunting. Personally I enjoy the thrill of the chase, testing the stamina of fifty hounds a horses against the fox is truly exhilarating. The adrenaline rush if the dogs catch the fox before he goes to ground is unmatched. If the fox does go to ground watching him being dug out is a altogether other exciting experience. Then watching the first timers being bloodied is a frankly heart warming traditional moment. No of course I don't support hunting foxes on any level, but that's what you expected to hear right? I do however support the rights of people going about perfectly legal pastimes without balaclava wearing idiots preventing them.


Not all all, I would have been very disappointed if that had been your view. I think again you are missing the point - how do you know they are going about perfectly legal pastimes? The hunt are supposed to be following an artificial scent and if that is the case why do they need terrier men on quad bikes?



rona said:


> Not Uk based advice but it's easily accessible
> 
> http://www.horsenation.com/2015/03/...se-know-how-to-protect-yourself-on-horseback/
> 
> ...


Where does it say turn your horse around and ride right back towards the person who is apparently harassing you after you have beaten them 17 times with your crop?


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Not all all, I would have been very disappointed if that had been your view. I think again you are missing the point - how do you know they are going about perfectly legal pastimes? The hunt are supposed to be following an artificial scent and if that is the case why do they need terrier men on quad bikes?


Depends if the terrier men were with them or called in to help. Without the full video we don't know. Also they (the balaclavad bunch) claim they stopped any foxes being killed that day. Where's the evidence they did anything of the sort, or were no foxes killed because they weren't hunting them?

It's a meaningless video as it is. If they were fox hunting then yes protest and call the police, get evidence and private prosecutions if need be.

How do you know they are doing anything illegal? Apparently they didn't.

Frankly I'm all for stopping illegal hunting. But the people on this video are going about it all wrong and just harming their cause (presuming their cause is actually stopping fox hunting).


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> Don't think you can say these people are in anyway the same as armed police. They cover their faces because they know they are doing wrong.
> 
> I did forget to give my views on hunting. Personally I enjoy the thrill of the chase, testing the stamina of fifty hounds a horses against the fox is truly exhilarating. The adrenaline rush if the dogs catch the fox before he goes to ground is unmatched. If the fox does go to ground watching him being dug out is a altogether other exciting experience. Then watching the first timers being bloodied is a frankly heart warming traditional moment. No of course I don't support hunting foxes on any level, but that's what you expected to hear right? *I do however support the rights of people going about perfectly legal pastimes without balaclava wearing idiots preventing them*.


Trail hunts are illegally killing foxes all the time and even if killing was foxes was legalised again sabs would be there, because some legal things are downright immoral.

Here is the East Sussex & Romney marsh hunt again, this time caught digging out & killing a fox. Just look how many of the sadistic ******** there are? That lot hunting down one terrified little animal - how very sporting


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

noushka05 said:


> Trail hunts are illegally killing foxes all the time and even if killing was foxes was legalised again sabs would be there, because some legal things are downright immoral.
> 
> Here is the East Sussex & Romney marsh hunt again, this time caught digging out & killing a fox. Just look how many of the sadistic ******** there are? That lot hunting down one terrified little animal - how very sporting


Yeah, I'm not gonna watch that I don't think.

My grandparents used to run a council dairy farm when I was little and gave permission to the hunt to use their land.

Obviously I didn't understand the ins and outs of what was actually happening then, but I do remember thinking what a beautiful sight it was to see them go across the fields with the hounds.

If only they were satisfied with the 'hunt' and not the actual kill


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MilleD said:


> Yeah, I'm not gonna watch that I don't think.
> 
> My grandparents used to run a council dairy farm when I was little and gave permission to the hunt to use their land.
> 
> ...


In all honesty I couldn't bring myself to watch the whole video either. I only watched the very beginning.

I simply don't understand why all hunt followers aren't happy following an artificial trail. No animal gets hurt, a lovely day out in the countryside. But those who follow trail hunts will never be happy that - they want to chase live quarry or they wouldn't do it.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Oh I see, the mad woman on the horse who is clearly riding it at the sab


She certainly appears to make a bee-line for him before he has said anything or grabbed the reins. The young guy with her is hanging back and rather looks as tho he wishes he could be somewhere else. He was not going to get involved at all.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Depends if the terrier men were with them or called in to help. Without the full video we don't know. Also they (the balaclavad bunch) claim they stopped any foxes being killed that day. Where's the evidence they did anything of the sort, or were no foxes killed because they weren't hunting them?
> 
> It's a meaningless video as it is. If they were fox hunting then yes protest and call the police, get evidence and private prosecutions if need be.
> 
> ...


Why would a legal hunt following a scent need to call in terrier men to help? Help with what? If the hunt followers or Miss Whiplash were afraid for their safety or felt they were being harassed then surely they would call the police not a bunch of terrier men who just so happen to be sat on their quad bikes with a terrier in a box.

Clearly they are not harming their cause as the highest percentage ever of the population are opposed to hunting and want the ban to remain.

It does amaze me how at least 3 members of this forum/discussion think it is perfectly acceptable for an out of control woman armed with a whip to attack someone and cause them injury and further will defend them and blame the person being assaulted. If a thug was hitting an old lady around the head and shoulders with a stick because she didn't get out of his way quick enough I bet you would be calling him all the names under the sun and wanting him arrested and charged but apparently its OK to behave appallingly towards sabs just because they cover up their faces. I walk by dogs in the forest every night with my face covered and a hat on, only my eyes are visible. Perhaps cyclists or other walkers find that threatening, or perhaps they just use their brains and see I'm wrapped up against the cold wind.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Calvine said:


> She certainly appears to make a bee-line for him before he has said anything or grabbed the reins. The young guy with her is hanging back and rather looks as tho he wishes he could be somewhere else. He was not going to get involved at all.


Thank you, that is exactly how I see it.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Trail hunts are illegally killing foxes all the time and even if killing was foxes was legalised again sabs would be there, because some legal things are downright immoral.
> 
> Here is the East Sussex & Romney marsh hunt again, this time caught digging out & killing a fox. Just look how many of the sadistic ******** there are? That lot hunting down one terrified little animal - how very sporting


You can watch Noush as you don't see any kill you just see the filthy scum bags digging and digging with some old hag of a woman looking on, won't do your blood pressure much good though. They put a terrier down and then you see one of the men lift up a fox that is dead and put it in the box on the quad and clear off as they have already heard the police arriving. The police go to the group who have madly filled the hole back in and removed their nets. Despite providing footage to the police no action was taken. The video doesn't show the main body of the hunt which is enormous after the first couple of minutes. So sad that there are so many blood thirsty humans in this world


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Why would a legal hunt following a scent need to call in terrier men to help? Help with what? If the hunt followers or Miss Whiplash were afraid for their safety or felt they were being harassed then surely they would call the police not a bunch of terrier men who just so happen to be sat on their quad bikes with a terrier in a box.
> 
> Clearly they are not harming their cause as the highest percentage ever of the population are opposed to hunting and want the ban to remain.
> 
> It does amaze me how at least 3 members of this forum/discussion think it is perfectly acceptable for an out of control woman armed with a whip to attack someone and cause them injury and further will defend them and blame the person being assaulted. If a thug was hitting an old lady around the head and shoulders with a stick because she didn't get out of his way quick enough I bet you would be calling him all the names under the sun and wanting him arrested and charged but apparently its OK to behave appallingly towards sabs just because they cover up their faces. I walk by dogs in the forest every night with my face covered and a hat on, only my eyes are visible. Perhaps cyclists or other walkers find that threatening, or perhaps they just use their brains and see I'm wrapped up against the cold wind.


I'll leave you to it because it's become another round-in-circles thread. We basically agree, it's just the methods used to stop fox hunting on which we differ.

For me it's about stopping fox hunting, but do it by legal methods and a tad more thought about how that might be achieved better than wading in with faces covered shouting abuse. You need a civilised approach to stamp out a uncivilised behaviour.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> I'll leave you to it because it's become another round-in-circles thread. We basically agree, it's just the methods used to stop fox hunting on which we differ.
> 
> For me it's about stopping fox hunting, but do it by legal methods and a tad more thought about how that might be achieved better than wading in with faces covered shouting abuse. You need a civilised approach to stamp out a uncivilised behaviour.


:Hilarious:Hilarious I shall suggest the sabs take tea and cake and invite the lovely folk like those terrier men in the video noush posted to partake of a friendly chat over a cuppa. I'm not sure they will listen to the civilised approach given that they already know 80 % of the population oppose their behaviour yet they still do it. Over the years I've found the type of people who get pleasure from killing and tormenting are not usually up for a civilised discussion about their uncivilised behaviour.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Instead of the widely accepted and disparaging term, 'Saboteur', wouldn't it be nice if we could find and apply another, more constructive title to those who dedicate their time and commit themselves to the protection of foxes from the real thugs and terrorists of the countryside.

If I dedicated my life to good causes, say, preventing pedophiles abducting children from the street, then, ultimately, I may well be sabotaging their plans, but in doing so, would my actions make me a saboteur?

Only in the eyes of another pedophile, perhaps.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious I shall suggest the sabs take tea and cake and invite the lovely folk like those terrier men in the video noush posted to partake of a friendly chat over a cuppa. I'm not sure they will listen to the civilised approach given that they already know 80 % of the population oppose their behaviour yet they still do it. Over the years I've found the type of people who get pleasure from killing and tormenting are not usually up for a civilised discussion about their uncivilised behaviour.


You miss my point entirely. Keep on supporting thuggish cowardly tatics and nothing will ever change as you are fighting fire with fire. You need to be a bit wiser if you truly want change rather than short term retribution.

And that really is my final word. Probably


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> You miss my point entirely. Keep on supporting thuggish cowardly tatics and nothing will ever change as you are fighting fire with fire. You need to be a bit wiser if you truly want change rather than short term retribution.
> 
> And that really is my final word. Probably


Bet it isn't  Depends on what you view as thuggish and cowardly. I view the sabs as brave and dedicated people which is why I will continue to donate money to them and support them in any way I can. Of course you could say that given Hunting is officially banned we haven't done such a bad job for a bunch of thugs :Smug


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Here's a thought.....even superheroes wear masks.:Bag


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> You can watch Noush as you don't see any kill you just see the filthy scum bags digging and digging with some old hag of a woman looking on, won't do your blood pressure much good though. They put a terrier down and then you see one of the men lift up a fox that is dead and put it in the box on the quad and clear off as they have already heard the police arriving. The police go to the group who have madly filled the hole back in and removed their nets. Despite providing footage to the police no action was taken. The video doesn't show the main body of the hunt which is enormous after the first couple of minutes. So sad that there are so many blood thirsty humans in this world


Respect to you for checking it out RPH, it takes guts to do that when you feel for animals the way you do xx. Poor fox, I can't begin to imagine the terror it must have felt before those depraved low lifes killed it 



Zaros said:


> Instead of the widely accepted and disparaging term, 'Saboteur', wouldn't it be nice if we could find and apply another, more constructive title to those who dedicate their time and commit themselves to the protection of foxes from the real thugs and terrorists of the countryside.
> 
> If I dedicated my life to good causes, say, preventing pedophiles abducting children from the street, then, ultimately, I may well be sabotaging their plans, but in doing so, would my actions make me a saboteur?
> 
> Only in the eyes of another pedophile, perhaps.


I bet the people who hate sabs would see them in a very different light if they were putting themselves in harms way to save their domestic dogs or cats being hunted down by a these sadists on horse back. They'd be heroes then no doubt not 'cowardly thugs'.



Dr Pepper said:


> You miss my point entirely. Keep on supporting thuggish cowardly tatics and nothing will ever change as you are fighting fire with fire. You need to be a bit wiser if you truly want change rather than short term retribution.
> 
> And that really is my final word. Probably


Sabs are brave & selfless. The animal abusing hunters are the real thugs. FAR more hunters have been convicted for serious offences than sabs have & thats despite having the law on their side most of the time. This is list of hunt convictions http://www.wildlifeguardian.co.uk/hunting/hunt-convictions/

Sabs are also out in the field night after night sabbing the despicable badger cull . They save lives, they make a difference, they are the frontline of defence for our wildlife. Heroes.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

And tbf the so called "attacker" didn't attack in the first place. The rider attacked the man by riding her horse at him before he had even touched the horse.


noushka05 said:


> In all honesty I couldn't bring myself to watch the whole video either. I only watched the very beginning.
> 
> I simply don't understand why all hunt followers aren't happy following an artificial trail. No animal gets hurt, a lovely day out in the countryside. But those who follow trail hunts will never be happy that - they want to chase live quarry or they wouldn't do it.


And their flimsy "excuse" they are protecting the livestock from nuisance fox populations just doesn't hold water. It has nothing to do with anything other than their sick bloodlust and enjoyment of participating in animal cruelty.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Well apparently she was coming to the aid of a young rider that had been blocked and surrounded by the sabs after not being able to jump a hedge with the rest of the field


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

rona said:


> Well *apparently* she was coming to the aid of a young rider that had been blocked and surrounded by the sabs after not being able to jump a hedge with the rest of the field


*Apparently*: _Evidently_..._As far as one knows...or can see._

Where is the evidence in the video?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Zaros said:


> *Apparently*: _Evidently_..._As far as one knows...or can see._
> 
> Where is the evidence in the video?


She also claims the altercation injured her horse .... funny as the only one that could have caused injury to it was her pulling it about & potentially hitting it with her crop as she attacked the protestors .....but obviously now she claims that she was 'frightened' & was worried for her horse ..... she disguised that soo well in the clip tho


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> She also claims the altercation injured her horse .... funny as the only one that could have caused injury to it was her pulling it about & potentially hitting it with her crop as she attacked the protestors .....but obviously now she claims that she was 'frightened' & was worried for her horse ..... she disguised that soo well in the clip tho


If you were protecting a young person then you would disguise being frightened to, you'd act on instinct


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Dr Pepper said:


> And that really is my final word. Probably


Allegedly!


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Zaros said:


> Here's a thought.....even superheroes wear masks.:Bag


As do all their foes 

And to be fair Adam West and Burt Ward's Batman and Robin had pretty poor disguises.


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## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Calvine said:


> Allegedly!


Well fancy you posting that as I posted, again


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

rona said:


> Well apparently she was coming to the aid of a young rider that had been blocked and surrounded by the sabs after not being able to jump a hedge with the rest of the field


Sorry Rona, but even I know that is a load of rubbish!
The rider was in the wrong on every level IMHO.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

rona said:


> If you were protecting a young person then you would disguise being frightened to, you'd act on instinct


Oh of course .. I would then leave them & repeatedly use my beloved horse as a weapon against those who I was so worried about, repeatedly returning to restart the disagreement & again putting my horse in danger whilst leaving the scared young person on their own .... yep really believable!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> Sorry Rona, but even I know that is a load of rubbish!
> The rider was in the wrong on every level IMHO.


I don't know the truth but then neither does anyone else on this forum as none were there. There's also no time consistency in the video clip 
Yes it seemed like an over reaction, but if it was in the protection of a minor.........................


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Oh of course .. I would then leave them & repeatedly use my beloved horse as a weapon against those who I was so worried about, repeatedly returning to restart the disagreement & again putting my horse in danger whilst leaving the scared young person on their own .... yep really believable!


But what if they were blocking the only way out for the minor?


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## Sproglet (Aug 25, 2017)

But why, if a youngster was in danger, would she not be right by their side protecting him/her, instead of riding her horse directly at people?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Sproglet said:


> But why, if a youngster was in danger, would she not be right by their side protecting him/her, instead of riding her horse directly at people?


To try and unblock the way out. If you put the final clip at the beginning it makes far more sense


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> She also claims the altercation injured her horse .... funny as the only one that could have caused injury to it was her pulling it about & potentially hitting it with her crop as she attacked the protestors .....but obviously now she claims that *she was 'frightened' & was worried for her horse ..... she disguised that soo well in the clip tho*


Obviously spurred on by dutch courage. Far too much alcohol served up in the stirrup cup.



Dr Pepper said:


> As do all their foes .
> 
> And to be fair Adam West and Burt Ward's Batman and Robin had pretty poor disguises.


Surgeons wear masks too. Although I could never quite work that one out.

As for Batman&Robin, they wear masks because the citizens of Gotham aren't as thick as those morons over in Metropolis.


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## Sproglet (Aug 25, 2017)

But they were in the middle of a field, not at the edge, and even if you change the clips about, the quads were there. If that's really the case, surely it would be safer to put the quads over to protect a youngster rather than use a horse??


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

@rona , defend the sadist all you want, but your defence arguments are getting less and less plausible . . . As are the sadist's arguments themselves. :Bored


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

rona said:


> I don't know the truth but then neither does anyone else on this forum as none were there. There's also no time consistency in the video clip
> Yes it seemed like an over reaction, but if it was in the protection of a minor.........................


It doesn't really matter what the truth is, there is NO excuse for riding your horse like a weapon at a group of people and assaulting one 17 times with a whip. The police would not even tolerate the relative of a murder victim behaving that way towards the accused outside a court and neither should they tolerate this and how you can even attempt to defend her is beyond me.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> It doesn't really matter what the truth is, there is NO excuse for riding your horse like a weapon at a group of people and assaulting one 17 times with a whip. The police would not even tolerate the relative of a murder victim behaving that way towards the accused outside a court and neither should they tolerate this and how you can even attempt to defend her is beyond me.


I agree with this. All may not be as it seems but the woman's reaction was way over the top and unnecessary. There's no need to ram your horse into someone twice, or whip them 17 times unless they were physically trying to drag you off your horse.

I stand by what I said, if someone grabbed my horse like that I'd be peed off but she shouldn't have put herself in that situation in the first place... If she was 'defending' someone younger who's horse had refused a jump. Ride to the youngster, tell everyone to back off and give them a lead over the jump and ride away! From the end of the video, they managed to ride off easy enough... Or if the way really was blocked, why not ride down the hedge line and look for somewhere else to jump? 
There's no excuse to lose your temper like that. Yes, perhaps she was angry but that doesn't give you right to beat someone 17 times.


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## clermontfed (Jan 1, 2013)

I am the daughter of a farmer and will never forget the day my father forbad the hunt to come on his land. It is the only time I heard him swear! He always believed that foxes had as much right to live on the land as we had. He spent a lot of time making sure that our fowls were safe and I think he enjoyed outwitting the wily foxes.
Regarding the horse rider, she committed an assault, simple. No buts. The trouble is that these people think that the law does not apply to them and they have a huge sense of entitlement to boot.


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

Horrible behaviour from that woman, yes she may have been concerned for her horses safety but that does not give any excuse to whip and assault someone. Also she rode her horse at the man in the first place, if someone rode their horse at me in such an aggressive manner then I would probably do what that man did as well or jump out the way. Poor horse looked very stressed out as well from the woman's handling. Hate fox hunting In anyway shape or form, I watched the whole video that @noushka05 posted and it made me sick to my stomach when the terrierman dragged the dead fox out .


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Zaros said:


> *Apparently*: _Evidently_..._As far as one knows...or can see._
> 
> Where is the evidence in the video?


Precisely why I will not watch the existing edited video, or anything other than the full, unedited footage. I strongly dislike relying on biased sources - biased in the historical evidence meaning of the word. Publish the lot, complete with metadata and visible timestamps, and it would be worth a look.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Jesthar said:


> Precisely why I will not watch the existing edited video, or anything other than the full, unedited footage. I strongly dislike relying on biased sources - biased in the historical evidence meaning of the word. Publish the lot, complete with metadata and visible timestamps, and it would be worth a look.


In which case, all we're left with is the actual footage of an attack, made by a woman on horseback, on a man who was on foot.

Even if we can conjure up the feintest images of self defence, I still consider her actions to be a deliberate and sustained assault.

As I'm sure many others do.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Zaros said:


> In which case, all we're left with is the actual footage of an attack, made by a woman on horseback, on a man who was on foot.
> 
> Even if we can conjure up the feintest images of self defence, I still consider her actions to be a deliberate and sustained assault.
> 
> As I'm sure many others do.


That in isolation can only ever be a partial source, though. I would like the full context and circumstances before drawing conclusions, and I do not believe unedited footage is too much to ask. The conclusions may well be the same, but it could at least serve for the removal of certain areas of doubt.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Jesthar said:


> That in isolation can only ever be a partial source, though. I would like the full context and circumstances before drawing conclusions, and I do not believe unedited footage is too much to ask. The conclusions may well be the same, but it could at least serve for the removal of certain areas of doubt.


Last year, whilst we were out walking with the dogs, a man in a car attempted to run Oscar and myself over. He reversed, stopped and threatened to do it another time if ever he saw me walk near his property again.
The footage of his initial attempt does not appear on MrsZee's phone because, we simply were not expecting such an outrageous attack. Instead MrsZee decided to video the resulting heated verbal exchange between the man and myself. He continued to make the threat until he was told the incident was being recorded.

The police were not interested in our walk prior to the attack, or what may or may not have prompted it. They were interested in the inescapable facts that were available for them to consider........These facts were the threats to carry out the intention to run me over at a later date.
.
.
.
Fact is the horse rider attacked/assaulted a man on foot.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Zaros said:


> Last year, whilst we were out walking with the dogs, a man in a car attempted to run Oscar and myself over. He reversed, stopped and threatened to do it another time if ever he saw me walk near his property again.
> The footage of his initial attempt does not appear on MrsZee's phone because, we simply were not expecting such an outrageous attack. Instead MrsZee decided to video the resulting heated verbal exchange between the man and myself. He continued to make the threat until he was told the incident was being recorded.
> 
> The police were not interested in our walk prior to the attack, or what may or may not have prompted it. They were interested in the inescapable facts that were available for them to consider........These facts were the threats to carry out the intention to run me over at a later date.
> ...


And as that was the extent of the footage available, that's fine. 

I have said it before and I will say it again, I'm not passing any judgement on the incident itself, nor will I, as I haven't watched the (incomplete) footage released - my choice. I am simply pointing out it is hard to be objective in assessment of an incident when one is only in possession of partial evidence which may or may not provide a skewed persective or context - wittingly or unwittingly. Plus the dangers of grabbing the reins of a horse under many circumstances, which may be educational to those less familiar with equine behaviour.

Perhaps I'm just a suspicious beggar (being in IT support will do that to you!), but I don't like unnecessary gaps in data.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> You have to wonder what they were intending to get up to that day to warrant such aggression from the outset, they really really wanted the sabs to go away :Hilarious


Exactly this! If they intend to follow the law with an innocent trail hunt, why the need for such aggression & intimidation? They have nothing to hide, so let the sabs follow.

However, we know that's not the case.

I follow a couple of sab pages on FB and only these past two days have they reported on two hunts both of which have killed


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> Exactly this! If they intend to follow the law with an innocent trail hunt, why the need for such aggression & intimidation? They have nothing to hide, so let the sabs follow.
> 
> However, we know that's not the case.
> 
> I follow a couple of sab pages on FB and only these past two days have they reported on two hunts both of which have killed


I think the sabs who follow/record/report these vile people pretending not to be out for a kill when we all know they are deserve our praise and support. How absolutely gut wrenching it must be to know they have killed and not be able to do anything to them. People are trying to defend Miss Whiplash on the grounds of provocation well knowing they have killed is provocation too. It must take enormous self restraint from the sabs to stop themselves giving the cowards on horseback a taste of their own medicine.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Jesthar said:


> And as that was the extent of the footage available, that's fine.
> 
> I have said it before and I will say it again, I'm not passing any judgement on the incident itself, nor will I, as I haven't watched the (incomplete) footage released - my choice. I am simply pointing out it is hard to be objective in assessment of an incident when one is only in possession of partial evidence which may or may not provide a skewed persective or context - wittingly or unwittingly. Plus the dangers of grabbing the reins of a horse under many circumstances, which may be educational to those less familiar with equine behaviour.
> 
> Perhaps I'm just a suspicious beggar (being in IT support will do that to you!), but I don't like unnecessary gaps in data.


I do understand what you are saying but I doubt sabs would ever record the whole of their day, for a start they might be out for 6 or 8 hours, a lot of that they will be playing catch up and sometimes they will be recording one group while different action is going on elsewhere. That was demonstrated in the video @noushka05 posted of another incident with this same hunt. The sabs were recording a huge group riding along the edge of a field then saw the quad bikes arrive and the men get off and start poking about so they had to decide whether to continue recording the hunt or stay watching the terrier men which is what they did. After one of the men comes out with the dead fox and puts it in his bike box and goes they further have to decide whether to try and follow him or stay recording the group who are now covering their tracks filling in the hole and removing their nets as the police arrive. Who knows what is going on with the main hunt at this point, perhaps another sab on the ground is recording them too but I don't think its very realistic to expect a person on foot to be able to record everything when the people they are recording are on horse back or on quad bikes.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

I give up.

Think I'll foster the tactic @stockwellcat. adopts when he runs head long into a wall.................:Banghead

I'm outta here..........................


*SEE ME ROLLIN'*


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

I feel that this thread has run its course. I'm going to close it for now, but if anyone objects, I'm happy to reopen it - just PM me. 

Edit: reopened.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Thank you @LinznMilly


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I do understand what you are saying but I doubt sabs would ever record the whole of their day, for a start they might be out for 6 or 8 hours, a lot of that they will be playing catch up and sometimes they will be recording one group while different action is going on elsewhere.


Actually not that difficult with modern technology.. gopro with 128GB card for example. Of course that would mean uninterrupted video good and bad.

What concerns me most about this thread is presumption of guilt. Sabs automatically good... hunts people automatically bad. People's minds were set before any video.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Goblin said:


> Actually not that difficult with modern technology.. gopro with 128GB card for example. Of course that would mean uninterrupted video good and bad.
> 
> What concerns me most about this thread is presumption of guilt. Sabs automatically good... hunts people automatically bad. People's minds were set before any video.


Pretty hard to put any sort of a "good spin" on a woman repeatedly riding her horse at people aggressively and whacking someone 17 times about the head and shoulders with a riding whip though. Of course to some of us hunters are automatically bad and sabs are automatically good until proven otherwise. Not ashamed for one minute to admit that but in this particular case there is no doubt who is in the wrong.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> And tbf the so called "attacker" didn't attack in the first place. The rider attacked the man by riding her horse at him before he had even touched the horse.
> 
> And their flimsy "excuse" they are protecting the livestock from nuisance fox populations just doesn't hold water. It has nothing to do with anything other than their sick bloodlust and enjoyment of participating in animal cruelty.


Blood sport enthusiasts are pathological liars. Hunts have been caught red handed 'breeding' foxes. Feeding foxes. We know they will bag foxes to release them for the hounds. Fox hunting has never been about population 'management', they have to dress it up that way to make it more acceptable to the general public. In reality the hunters are just sick perverts.



rona said:


> But what if they were blocking the only way out for the minor?


Not a shred of evidence but you believe this rubbish though? lol

IME children are born loving animals. Imagine the mentality of the parents who indoctrinate their children into animal cruelty? Kids aren't allowed to watch 18 rated movies for a reason - hunt 'minors' are deliberately desensitised to animal cruelty. I personally think thats a form of child abuse.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zaros said:


> Think I'll foster the tactic @stockwellcat. adopts when he runs head long into a wall.................:Banghead











It hurts when you hit the wall.....


>


....Yes you will be rolling around on the floor in pain after hitting the wall


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Goblin said:


> What concerns me most about this thread is presumption of guilt. Sabs automatically good... hunts people automatically bad. People's minds were set before any video


I have been known to call out obviously edited videos in the past and called out the sabs when they haven't behaved properly...it's pretty hard to defend a rider that uses her horse as a weapon whilst assaulting someone with her whip!

She had plenty of opportunities to move her horse out of the way...but instead she put her horse into the firing line...nothing can defend that, nothing!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> I have been known to call out obviously edited videos in the past and called out the sabs when they haven't behaved properly...it's pretty hard to defend a rider that uses her horse as a weapon whilst assaulting someone with her whip!
> 
> She had plenty of opportunities to move her horse out of the way...but instead she put her horse into the firing line...nothing can defend that, nothing!


Yep, same here & I used to be an active member of a local hunt sab group so know they are not all angels & are not always there purely to save the life of a fox but in this clip there is no excuse for the way that woman behaved.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Good grief, what a dreadful woman. Has no business having a horse, the way she treats him. Hauling on his mouth and booting him with spurs, driving him at people. She’s no better than a thug who ill treats his dogs then tries to set them on people.

Disgusting.

I don’t think trying to intimidate people, wearing masks and sticking cameras in their faces is exactly honourable, but that woman’s behaviour was abysmal. She should get a bike and leave horses out of it.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Oh dear looks like Miss Whiplash has got previous, think she needs to go to anger management classes

http://video.dailymail.co.uk/video/...339728591/640x360_MP4_1065259499339728591.mp4

Oh and police have confirmed they are going to be speaking to her. Not sure what the hold up is given her name has been in the public domain for days since her husband gave a press release. Lets watch them find some excuse not to charge her.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Oh dear looks like Miss Whiplash has got previous, think she needs to go to anger management classes
> 
> http://video.dailymail.co.uk/video/...339728591/640x360_MP4_1065259499339728591.mp4
> 
> Oh and police have confirmed they are going to be speaking to her. Not sure what the hold up is given her name has been in the public domain for days since her husband gave a press release. Lets watch them find some excuse not to charge her.


She's totally unhinged


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> She's totally unhinged


After that display I'm surprised they let her out with them again. I thought I had a potty mouth but she is something else


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