# What age would you stud your dog out?



## Guest (Feb 16, 2011)

I have no intentions of studding mine out until they are 1) doing well in the ring/agility. 2) fully health tested.

I have seen dogs being stud out at all sorts of silly ages.

What age would you use a stud dog? Or put your dog out at stud?


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

At least 2 years old. But I would rather use an older dog, that has had a healthy life, and his close family is healthy as well.


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

Certainly not before the age of 2, and only then if they were KC registered and a good example of the breed with the correct conformation, temperament and working attitude, and if they had satisfactory results from all the recommended health tests for the breed.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2011)

Exactly.....8-9 month old some of these stud dogs...they cant even be fully health tested at that age.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Logan is about 20 months and may be used at very limited stud in the next few months. He is fully health tested for his breed, fully mature and proven in the ring


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Blu is 20 months old and won't be getting used for awhile if I decide to use him. In the past month he has really matured looks wise in the ring so I think he's a bit of a late developer. Jack is 5 months so far too young to be used!


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2011)

Not something I would do myself unless my dog were 'exceptional'


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Two and only if they were fully health tested and good examples of the breed. I wouldn't use an 8-9 month old puppy


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Sorry but dont people have to ask to use your dog before you even think about stud work


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2011)

Kinjilabs said:


> Sorry but dont people have to ask to use your dog before you even think about stud work


Not really, I have seen many stud dogs of all ages (6 months - 11 years) just stick on things like pets4homes and preloved. Hardly good examples of the breed and not really health tested.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Kinjilabs said:


> Sorry but dont people have to ask to use your dog before you even think about stud work


Noooooooooooo, you just put ad on the internet and offer him:scared::scared:

Seriously, you are correct. There just seems to be so many ads offering studs lately


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It's another way to make money I guess stud out your sick/bad example of the breed to another idiot who thinks a litter is a good way to make money


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> It's another way to make money I guess stud out your sick/bad example of the breed to another idiot who thinks a litter is a good way to make money


I have seen some poor examples of many breeds, One springs to mind...only 8 month old never shown, not tested..yet is up for £100 more than the stud dog I want to use who is nearly 3 fully health tested, proven and has won many shows.

Bloody daft...


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I've seen a few bulldogs studded out from one kennel that always seems to have litters it's a show kennel though.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

pearltheplank said:


> Noooooooooooo, you just put ad on the internet and offer him:scared::scared:
> 
> Seriously, you are correct. There just seems to be so many ads offering studs lately


Don't talk to me about stud ads - I've got my boy advertised - but if you saw most of the enquiries I get for him  (and yes he is shown regularly, has an impeccable (and rather diverse for his colour) pedigree and outstanding health results)

I always try to educate in my responses, but sadly, when you have unhealth-tested dogs just down the road at £100 a time - it's not difficult to see which direction most of them will go  - poor puppies


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

The youngest dog I have ever used as a stud was Simba he was 2 1/2. I would never use a dog before it was 2 years old. 
There are no health tests for whippets in this country so a lot of whippets are used younger as they don't have to wait for them to be old enough to have the health tests.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

2 plus . as yet Dexter is unused and i don't care if it stays that way . I've turned a stud down as i didn't think the bitch of quality to be mated. If he's going to used it has to be a bitch of decent quality and breeding.


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

One of my boys was just over 2 when I put a line on my site to say that he was available at stud to preapproved bitches only. He's eye tested yearly, has an excellent pedigree and has produced a really nice litter for us. I don't show him as often as the other two boys simply because he gets bored with it.

Before we had the litter, there were quite a few enquiries from people offering to do us the favour of 'proving' him... ie we know his bits are working and they get a free stud  Since I put the line on my site, there have only been 2 enquiries and I'm sure one of those was a wind up... either that or I'm just too fussy 

We've also had quite a few enquiries for our youngest boy, someone even suggested that we use him as soon as he's able to do the deed  but there is no way that I'd allow that to happen.

Apart from the age of the dog there are other things that I'd take into account before allowing any of my dogs to be used.

1. All relevant paperwork must be in order
2. Must be eye tested clear
3. Should be suitable match
4. Owner must be willing for the bitch to be checked by my vet prior to mating.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

swarthy said:


> Don't talk to me about stud ads - I've got my boy advertised - but if you saw most of the enquiries I get for him  (and yes he is shown regularly, has an impeccable (and rather diverse for his colour) pedigree and outstanding health results)


Please don't take this the wrong way 

But if your boy is such a good example, colour, pedigree and so healthy ... all great stuff, why do you actually need to advertise his services?

Surely within a specific breed owners have a pretty good idea which lines they favour and which studs they would like to use at some point? Maybe he is just advertised on your Breed Club site?

Surely he isn't advertised as stud on general online dog sale sites? If so it's not really surprising you get so many numpties calling 

I hope you don't mind me asking, I have just presumed good stud dogs would not need to be advertised? Though I can understand why many are


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I hope you don't mind me asking, I have just presumed good stud dogs would not need to be advertised? Though I can understand why many are


I know of quite a few very very good stud dogs that are advertised


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

We have used ours at about 18 months, once they are health tested. 

The welsh springer has not been used at stud as there is epilepsy in his lines, I hope to be able to freeze some of his semen and once they get the DNA for epilepsy in the breed, with his DNA profile hopefully if he is clear then I will ai a suitable bitch to maintain his beautiful lines 

We never advertise our dogs at stud, something we have never done


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

shazalhasa said:


> I know of quite a few very very good stud dogs that are advertised


Why would they need to be if so very, very good? I would have thought if so spectacular. they would be well known within their breed and desirable enough studs without being advertised


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Why would they need to be if so very, very good? I would have thought if so spectacular. they would be well known within their breed and desirable enough studs without being advertised


I have no idea but maybe it's so they can reach the pet market as otherwise it would only be the show people that know of these dogs :confused1:


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

raindog said:


> Certainly not before the age of 2, and only then if they were KC registered and a good example of the breed with the correct conformation, temperament and working attitude, and if they had satisfactory results from all the recommended health tests for the breed.


Just to add to that, the bitch would also have to fulfill the same conditions. We have one boy who has been used at stud a few times. He is a show champion and every dog in his five generation pedigree is a show champion. He is proven in harness and his temperament is to die for. Health tests all satisfactory etc. We have turned down dozens of requests for stud use as we didn't feel the bitches were compatible or of sufficient quality.

Mick


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

shazalhasa said:


> I have no idea but maybe it's so they can reach the pet market as otherwise it would only be the show people that know of these dogs :confused1:


I can't imagine many of the owners of really good stud dogs (or any decent breeder) would want them used in the production of pups in the "pet market" ...

Might be a way to make a bit "pocket money" though


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I can't imagine many of the owners of really good stud dogs (or any decent breeder) would want them used in the production of pups in the "pet market" ...
> 
> Might be a way to make a bit "pocket money" though


I honestly couldn't say but if you're really that interested, you could always ask them yourself instead of speculating on here


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

shazalhasa said:


> I honestly couldn't say but if you're really that interested, you could always ask them yourself instead of speculating on here


I was hoping a breeder might know


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> I was hoping a breeder might know


££££££££££££££££££££££'s


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

We havent advertised our studs at all really, had one listed on our champdogs page but it was an accidental listing after he was neutered :lol: We dont have Logan advertised anywhere and we have been inundated with enquiries from people seeing him at shows. Its the people with the best bitches you want using the dog anyway.

I see some studs advertised on every possible website and it does make me laugh, if its a good dog you dont need to advertise, people will come to you to use him. Clearly to be advertising so much they are only interested in making money.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> I can't imagine many of the owners of really good stud dogs (or any decent breeder) would want them used in the production of pups in the "pet market" ...
> 
> Might be a way to make a bit "pocket money" though


If you need it explaining, then your understanding of breeding is pretty poor.

Even pet bitches have the pick of top quality stud dogs - but they don't go trawling around the shows / working areas looking for them.

If pet bitches only used pet bitches what exactly does that give back to the breed?

If pet bitch owners are adamant to breed and can't find quality tested stud dogs - some genuinely do believe one parent tested is better than none.

Your train of thought would exacerbate the popular sire syndrome and take it to a whole new level.

If you like the look of a dog, you actually go back to the sire - rather than the dog - because there is NOTHING to say that dog will produce the same level of quality.

Off the top of my head, I could name you more than a few prolific sires in my own breed none of whom have been champions (some haven't even had tickets / reserve tickets) - but have produced MANY champions - I can name you champions who have produced little or nothing that has achieved anything in the show or field (dependent on which side of the fence they sit).

Do you think people take stud dogs to every single show? do you think people who live in the South take their dogs to every show in the North and that everyone in the north takes their dogs to every show in the South - not forgetting east, west, and all the variations inbetween - with the cost of a Scottish show for a couple of dogs including fuel running well into hundreds of pounds - it's not something you can do every day.

I found All three of my stud dogs on the internet - I went out and met their offspring, spoke to the breeders - spoke to and eliminated several hundred dogs in the process - if none of these dogs had been advertised - then I wouldn't have known about them - but because they belong to smaller breeders they are not necessarily widely known.

Your take would completely segregate the working, pet and show markets for every breed - that would desecrate gene pools - look around - even top performing dogs with show and working titles are advertised - no-one can known everything.

A dog may be a genius in the ring - it doesn't mean he will produce anything of repute - likewise - a dog who has not done so well in the ring can and does produce dogs of repute - that's not hearsay - that's fact.

and no - it isn't about money - I had numpty enquiries before I even owned a dog, I had numpty enquiries before my dog was anywhere as a stud dog because he hadn't been health tested - just like you get the same types of enquires sometimes for puppies.

Let's face it - if we didn't - people wouldn't still be buying from puppy farmers because they are not prepared to learn.

Likewise, abandon the pet bitch market to unhealth tested pet dogs - and puppy farmers would be rubbing their hands with glees - insurance premiums would be through the roof - and the pet dog market would be in a lot worse state than it is now.

And - yep - it's all about money - I've invested around £2000 in buying my dog and health testing - and yet to accept a bitch to him - so aye - really it in for the money 

I will accept a bitch ONLY if I feel that my dog can offer that bitch something more than a good pedigree, health and temperament - and I would expect the visiting bitch owners to KNOW their dogs and their weaknesses.

99% of enquiries, I've actually referred to other breeders and I know many who have done the same.

So think what you like - but with views like that - popular sire syndrome would get worse, pet quality dogs would get worse, and puppy farmers would be running even faster to the bank than they are now


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

When we bred our first litter, as "pet" breeders if you like as we hadnt shown at that point, we looked into the bitches pedigree, saw the most prominent kennel name - Charway. Found out contact details for Janice Pritchard and she invited us to take the bitch there for her to advise her on stud dogs, which we did. And we ended up using the two dogs she suggested to us.

A lot of "pet" people contact us for advice on breeding their dogs as they have come across us as local breeders or our dogs appear in their dogs pedigree or something. I find we get a lot of enquiries for information like that. 

So, not all "pet breeders" limit themselves to looking on the internet, many actually really want to research their lines to pick the best dog for their bitch 

But I do agree with what Amethyst says, I dont know many show breeders (other than those interested only in getting the money) who will happily let their dogs mate any old bitches purely to supply a pet market. We certainly have turned away far, far more bitches than we have allowed to use our dogs, infact, all of our studs have only ever been offered at VERY limited stud to only the best quality bitches (not necessarily show winners as I agree, a good show dog doesnt always produce show pups) and only when the owners can satisfy us that they are breeding for the right reasons and have thought about homes for the pups. Of course there are ssome breeders only interested in a bit of cash to be made, as of course stud use isnt monitored by the tax man like breeding from bitches  But any decent breeder would be far more selective than to splash their dogs on the freeads and stuff as thats attracting the wrong type for sure.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Jess2308 said:


> So, not all "pet breeders" limit themselves to looking on the internet, many actually really want to research their lines to pick the best dog for their bitch


I trust that isn't aimed at me because of my last post.

I DO NOT limit my search to the Internet - but it's a damn good starting point particularly if you want to go beyond what is on your 5 generation pedigree - without the internet - I would never have found the dog I did, but the search was by no means limited to the Internet - but included a good three years of trawling and participating in shows at all levels, and completing the breed seminars and hands on assessments before I went near breeding a litter.

And your Lab litters before you started showing were both by SH CH if I remember rightly - and that point - by your own admission, you had never set foot in a showring with your labs.

ETA - popular sire syndrome is dangerous in a numerically large breed and gene pool, never mind the many smaller ones around.

And who mentioned Freeads !! there are LOTS of places to advertise stud dogs which don't involve free ads - and there are lots of top breeders who have advertised in places that would make some people who've never bred a litter in their lives, choke - and they've found very good owners through them - why because they stand out from the crowd


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

swarthy said:


> I trust that isn't aimed at me because of my last post.
> 
> I DO NOT limit my search to the Internet - but it's a damn good starting point particularly if you want to go beyond what is on your 5 generation pedigree - without the internet - I would never have found the dog I did, but the search was by no means limited to the Internet - but included a good three years of trawling and participating in shows at all levels, and completing the breed seminars and hands on assessments before I went near breeding a litter.
> 
> ...


How is that aimed at you? Are you a "pet breeder"? :confused1: You seem to be taking things very personally recently, I never mentioned anyone saying about the freeads :confused1: I said that myself  But I have seen a lot of stud dogs on the freeads (and other pet classifieds that come under that umbrella to me) and they are often the first websites to pop up in a google search. I personally dont need to "advertise" my dogs (puppies or studs) to get interest, the most we have had to do is list them on our website and on a couple of occassions we have put them on champdogs or the KC list, but i certainly wouldnt put them on one of those websites, just my opinion, you and anyone else are welcome to use those sites if you want :lol:

It is in response to your post about pet people searching the internet, just to say that many go about it a more thorough way than purely an internet search. I read your post (maybe incorrectly) to mean that you need to advertise stud dogs on the internet otherwise pet people will go to poor quality dogs.

I know all about "popular sire syndrome" from my other breeds where such breeding has made it very difficult to find an unrelated dog to mate my bitch to. But, I made no comment on that at all, nor do I see what it has to do with my post.... :confused1:

FYI - The first stud dog we used was not a champion at the time we enquired, although I believe he was made up by the time the bitch was in season. He was recommended on his bloodlines and type and how he could improve our bitch. And by the second litter we had been showing for a couple of years


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

So, I assume there are no rules within the KC that stipulates a minimum age for a stud dog and they will register a litter that has been sired from a dog of any young age?


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## tillywink (Feb 11, 2011)

KC have no lower breeding age on a stud.

KC have registered a litter with a stud dog as young as 6 months (so I've heard) :scared:


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

tillywink said:


> KC have no lower breeding age on a stud.
> 
> KC have registered a litter with a stud dog as young as 6 months (so I've heard) :scared:


Shocking!!!!!!!!!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

depends on the breed but I think 2 is a good general rule..


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## tillywink (Feb 11, 2011)

Any one know why there is no lower breeding age on a male?
After all the bitch has one? :confused1:


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2011)

tillywink said:


> Any one know why there is no lower breeding age on a male?
> After all the bitch has one? :confused1:


I am guessing because the KC dont feel the male should be age restricted. After all the male doesnt have to birth.

I would consider using a stud under 2 years old but only if they were very good in the ring and had fantastic health tests. If they were just average, I would use a older more experienced stud.

But I have seen dogs that have never been shown, way under 1 year old, not health tested put to stud. What sort of bitch owners would use a dog like that?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

we have never offered our dogs at public stud and NEVER will...If someone comes to us regarding one of ours boys, depending on the breeder, bitch ect ect ect - we consider it. All dogs are different, and I do not believe there is a set rule. Although there are avarge maturing ages for different breeds it will be different dependant on the dog. No matter the age I would not use a dog before it was proven its self in an area, fully health tested, had an out standing tempermant and most importantly matured fully both mentally and physically.
I would consider using a male at 18 months in my breed, If I felt he was all I stated above.


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> I can't imagine many of the owners of really good stud dogs (or any decent breeder) would want them used in the production of pups in the "pet market" ...
> 
> Might be a way to make a bit "pocket money" though


im not a breeder of dogs and i dont show dogs (i only have the one dog) so i dont know alot about the subject but why wouldnt owners of good stud dogs want them used in the pet market? are dogs not supposed to be pets? if there wernt any good stud dogs used in the pet market no one would be able to purchase a well bred, healthy puppy. If the bitch is health tested, and a good example of the breed then why would it be a bad thing?

fogive me if im just being stupid:confused1:


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Marley boy said:


> im not a breeder of dogs and i dont show dogs (i only have the one dog) so i dont know alot about the subject but why wouldnt owners of good stud dogs want them used in the pet market? are dogs not supposed to be pets? *if there wernt any good stud dogs used in the pet market no one would be able to purchase a well bred, healthy puppy*. If the bitch is health tested, and a good example of the breed then why would it be a bad thing?
> 
> fogive me if im just being stupid:confused1:


Most show breeders will have a litter to keep a puppy or two back for themselves. The rest of the litter will be sold as pets so you dont need to go to someone who is breeding purely to sell to the pet market to get a pet. And going to an experienced breeder means you can be confident that the pup has been well raised and socialised, is more likely to have been fully health tested and the parents will be of good temperment as that is pretty much a requirement in the showring


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I have a question. Where did the term 'studding your dog out' come from. I have never heard it except on here, surely standing a dog at stud is more usual.

Toffee's father was only about 12 months (possibly a bit less) when he mated the owners two bitches. He had no help and just got on with it when the bitches presented themselves to him. No, I dont agree with this as standard practice but it didnt do him any harm and the pups were very well reared,very well socialised, all found good homes and they were sensibly priced.
That is what most pet owners are looking for.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Blitz said:


> Toffee's father was only about 12 months (possibly a bit less) when he mated the owners two bitches. He had no help and just got on with it when the bitches presented themselves to him. No, I dont agree with this as standard practice but it didnt do him any harm and the pups were very well reared,very well socialised, all found good homes and they were sensibly priced.
> That is what most pet owners are looking for.


Some health issues in certain breeds dont show signs until after a year, tempermant issues may not show until after a year ect ect.. At a year alot of breeds will not be fully matured both physically and mentally, so owners have no idea how he will turn out. I said I would consider using a dog in my breed at 18months, they are usally a fast maturing breed - but thats not always the case, like with any breed.
I guess the people using dogs so young are just thinking about what they want, not how it will effect the overall breed, or what risks they may take when adding dogs into the community or they would leave the dog to grow up himself a little first before deciding he was worthy of breeding.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Some health issues in certain breeds dont show signs until after a year, tempermant issues may not show until after a year ect ect.. At a year alot of breeds will not be fully matured both physically and mentally, so owners have no idea how he will turn out. I said I would consider using a dog in my breed at 18months, they are usally a fast maturing breed - but thats not always the case, like with any breed.
> I guess the people using dogs so young are just thinking about what they want, not how it will effect the overall breed, or what risks they may take when adding dogs into the community or they would leave the dog to grow up himself a little first before deciding he was worthy of breeding.


I dont disagree with you. I liked the dog and the bitch has a lovely temperamentand is quite nice. I knew the pups would be well reared and they were local so I was able to see them once a week and make sure my puppy was progressing as I wanted her to. So in this instance I went with my instincts and hopefully have a very nice dog. It could have turned out differently but then it could be a disaster buying any pup.


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