# Cant stop crying



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

This morning when I was going to work at 5am I got stuck on the M25 as there had been an accident,I got stuck next to a lorry and when I looked the most beautiful calf and I got eye contact it looked so scared this was an abattoir lorry it was packed full of them, but this one and I just stared at each other for 20 minutes I was in floods of tears,cant get its face out my mind,to cap it all when I got to work they thought it was funny.:sad:


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_Well the people at work are just plain heartless, i totally understand how you feel, and i think 99 percent of animal lovers will understand how you feel, sending you a big hug. _


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

(((((hugs)))))

Your work people sound heartless


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Awww  I would have been the same ....ignore you work colleagues they sound callous xx


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

It's those faces are way I do t eat meat anymore  they know what's happening the sadness shows on their faces


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Are you sure it was an abattoir lorry and how big was this calf?

Many calves are being transported at the moment to get to their summer grazing land


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Aw Sue, big hugs for you hun. I know exactly where you are coming from and Cows have got such expressive faces that I can see why you would be upset.

Hopefully, it was as Rona said, being transported to a nice big field full of grass..... 

Ignore the [email protected] you work with - they obviously have no souls!!!


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## IndyGoJones (Dec 31, 2011)

I sympathise, I just can't bring myself to look at those lorries after I saw one with a cow's leg poking out of one of the slots. It was waiting on a slip road with its hazard lights on and I've never been able to delete that image from my mind.

Don't listen to your colleagues, evidently they don't care about animals as much as you


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Not being unsypathetic but if you eat meat then this is what happens to animals every day. 

It may be upsetting but it is just part of the process & people should be aware of what happens to the animals they eat, from when the animals are born to how they get to peoples plates


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

rona said:


> Are you sure it was an abattoir lorry and how big was this calf?
> 
> Many calves are being transported at the moment to get to their summer grazing land


Said it on the side Rona and it was half grown from what I could see but there was only small slats on the lorry but its face could just poke through.Sorry if anyone thinks I am being a whimp but it just upset me simple as that


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

suewhite said:


> This morning when I was going to work at 5am I got stuck on the M25 as there had been an accident,I got stuck next to a lorry and when I looked the most beautiful calf and I got eye contact it looked so scared this was an abattoir lorry it was packed full of them, but this one and I just stared at each other for 20 minutes I was in floods of tears,cant get its face out my mind,to cap it all when I got to work they thought it was funny.:sad:


I know exactly how you felt, we had an abottoir near where we used to live, and lorry loads of lamb, and sheep etc etc all with their little heads looking though the bars, it got me the same as you, little do they know what is going to happen to them................horrible.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

I understand completely...
I am the youngest of quiet a large family.
There used to be the cattle market near us when I was a child, I begged and begged to go as I wanted to see the animals. My parents did not think it a good idea to go, but my eldest sister who believed if a child is asking for information they should be given it, took me. It is one of my early memories having a veal calf sucking my thumb and then being realising what would happen to it eek:
Then years later as an adult I was walking my BC,we passed a lorry like this parked up at the road side. My BC jumped up at the side of the lorry and a calf licked his head, it was all I could do to drag him away he understood IMO..I walked up the road crying...I felt no less upset by it as an adult as I did at 6 years old!!


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

i hope all of you feeling sympathetic are vegetarians? this is the reality.

how do you think they get milk? the mother cows have to give birth to a calf. The females are kept to continue this cruel birthing process and the males are sent to slaughter that day if theyre lucky. If they arent they are kept for a few months fed a low protein diet so they cant walk and this is where your veal comes from.

the mother cows call and look for their calves for days and weeks after they are taken from them. It is absolutely disgusting and this is why i choose to be vegan.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> i hope all of you feeling sympathetic are vegetarians? this is the reality.
> 
> how do you think they get milk? the mother cows have to give birth to a calf. The females are kept to continue this cruel birthing process and the males are sent to slaughter that day if theyre lucky. If they arent they are kept for a few months fed a low protein diet so they cant walk and this is where your veal comes from.
> 
> the mother cows call and look for their calves for days and weeks after they are taken from them. It is absolutely disgusting and this is why i choose to be vegan.


Not sure I agree but IMO meat eaters ought to be supporting the British veal industry so the male calves arent' either shipped abroad or killed almost immediately after birth. We have a lot more regulations in this country regarding animal welfare for veal.


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> i hope all of you feeling sympathetic are vegetarians? this is the reality.
> 
> how do you think they get milk? the mother cows have to give birth to a calf. The females are kept to continue this cruel birthing process and the males are sent to slaughter that day if theyre lucky. If they arent they are kept for a few months fed a low protein diet so they cant walk and this is where your veal comes from.
> 
> the mother cows call and look for their calves for days and weeks after they are taken from them. It is absolutely disgusting and this is why i choose to be vegan.


thats why i would never go vegetarian, it just seems hypocritical to me to be so.

but i get why it upsets people, we are blissfully seperated from what ends up on our plate.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

It caused a real problem at 6 when I would not eat meat again, Mother worried, Father tried to make me, but again sister to the rescue and I survived!


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## Petnickety (Jun 14, 2012)

Hi sue,

Just joined today so Hi to everyone.

Interesting how us animal lovers seem to think and feel sad for the calf and not so much for those people involved in the accident.

If we see an animal dead on the of the side of the road our mood changes to "WE HATE CARS".

Chin up! being sensitive is a lovable characteristic.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2012)

I have over 20 rescued sheep. They have as much personality as dogs, a huge variation of IQs and I would no sooner eat sheep, as dog. I have had poddies, that slept on my bed, with dogs and cats

Why not use this experience to cut meat out of one extra meal a week. If everyone did that, hundreds of animals would not be needed for slaughter, and you can have great vego meals, amongst normal weeks food, so it is no hardship at all.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

being a vegetarian is still a lot better then being a meat eater! you save approximately 100 animals a year... 

i live my life by the saying 'why love one and kill the other' should resonate with you fellow pet owners. We are all disgusted by photos of dogs skinned and slaughtered in asia for food yet pigs are smarter then dogs. It just doesnt make sense to me...


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

i no exactly how you feel and those people at work seem heartless 
the thing i hate about it is, theres nothing we can do to stop it i understand people dont eat meat but that one person wont eat that poor calf but the 20 other meat eaters will bless poor thing glad i didnt see id be heart broken


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

haha there is absolutely everything WE can do to stop it! if we ALL stopped eating it there would be no industry but everyone has the mind set of 'what difference will i make?' and this is why nothing is done.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

neash98 said:


> i no exactly how you feel and those people at work seem heartless
> the thing i hate about it is, *theres nothing we can do to stop it *i understand people dont eat meat but that one person wont eat that poor calf but the 20 other meat eaters will bless poor thing glad i didnt see id be heart broken


That may be but if it upsets you so much then you do have a choice - don't be a part of it! 

I don't eat meat myself but don't understand how so many meat eaters can get upset by this. I can understand that people want what is best for the animals & for them to be treated well during the time they are being reared & when they are transported to slaughter but really don't understand how people find this so upsetting if they continue to eat meat.

I'm not being un sympathetic at all, I just really don't get it


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

guys i do really understand and i hate myself for the fact that i am a meat eater and i d0 understand your point completely i wish i coud be strong minded like you but not everybody in the world is going to stop eating meat, so what does one person make a difference, to be honest i wish theyd ban meat so we had no choice , im sorry if i offended anyone here its my first day im 13 lol i dont want to sound harsh i love animals to peices and wish animals wernt used as food


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

exactly cleo38!

i think everyone should have to see a calf or lamb being slaughtered and then see if they still want that lamb, veal and milk after seeing the reality.

but the industry will never let that happen because they brand their products with happy cows and adorable farms so people dont think about it =]


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## Petnickety (Jun 14, 2012)

Hi sue,

Just joined today so Hi to everyone. I a bit lost

Interesting how us animal lovers seem to think and feel sad for the calf and not so much for those people involved in the accident.

If we see an animal dead on the of the side of the road our mood changes to "WE HATE CARS".

Chin up! being sensitive is a lovable characteristic. :001_smile:


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

animals are completely innocent, they can really do no wrong. Especially a baby animal.

people can do wrong. They are not innocent and a person is to blame for the accident.


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> exactly cleo38!
> 
> i think everyone should have to see a calf or lamb being slaughtered and then see if they still want that lamb, veal and milk after seeing the reality.
> 
> but the industry will never let that happen because they brand their products with happy cows and adorable farms so people dont think about it =]


ive never actually seen a calf or lamb being slaughtered, ive seen a chicken being slaughtered and ive worked on a farm with meat cows

i dont like the idea of killing animals, however if i said that i believed humans were meant to be vegetarian/vegan i'd be lying.

i do, however, believe that the current farming industry and slaughter methods are completely wrong and that meat is not fairly priced.

i dont believe that people should be allowed to be so ignorant as to where their food is coming from.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

'we werent meant' it just seems like our whole future has already been set in stone? I feel that humans have evolved to not need meat and animal products. I dont eat them and i am very healthy =]

we also didnt evolve with cell phones glued to our ears and cities. 

lets not get started on global warming...


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

yes we can survive without meat now, and i think thats an individul choice everyone has to make. Unfortunatley, in teh great scheme of things, not many make it.

global warming would have happened anyway, its b*llocks to say humans caused it. Yes we may have made it happen earlier than it would have naturally done.

it's fine if we carry on like this, we'll wipe ourselves out and then the earth has time to repair herself.

The only downside is all the other poor creatures we'll take out with us.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

haha oh no...

have you looked at statistics? it is astonishing how you can say humans havent caused it. 

im studying science and have actually studied this at uni


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

yes.
we had to get out of the ice age eventually


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

metame said:


> ive never actually seen a calf or lamb being slaughtered, ive seen a chicken being slaughtered and ive worked on a farm with meat cows
> 
> i dont like the idea of killing animals, however if i said that i believed humans were meant to be vegetarian/vegan i'd be lying.
> 
> ...


I agree. I am not against people eating meat (even though I choose not to) but am more against certain farming practises, lack of animal welfare, etc. My OH is a meat eater & I always buy free range, local meat,l I would never buy factory farmed stuff. It's not that we are well off, my OH just eats less meat on the weeks money is tight.

We have chickens for egss at the moment & my Oh is keen for us to get some that will be for meat (he will slaughter them). I'm not keen (I will end up naming them & feeding them grapes like I do with the others!!) but at least I know that they will have a good life with us before they are put on to the table so may just have to 'harden up' a bit


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

The thing that puzzles me is the happy animal image.It is still going to get slaughtered, does taking a happy little animal that has run around on grass in the fresh air for a few months make it any kinder to slaughter than a poor animal stuck in a shed under artifical lights!! At least the later will get put out it's misery:


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> The thing that puzzles me is the happy animal image.It is still going to get slaughtered, does taking a happy little animal that has run around on grass in the fresh air for a few months make it any kinder to slaughter than a poor animal stuck in a shed under artifical lights!! At least the later will get put out it's misery:


Personally I do think it matters, a great deal. How can it be right that an animal can suffer for months before being killed? People will always eat meat so surely it is our duty to make sure the animals are treated well during thei time they are alive.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

metame said:


> yes.
> we had to get out of the ice age eventually


that was natural and not caused by a build up of gases in the atmosphere like this is...

increased CO2 = increased heat unable to escape the atmosphere = increased temperature

i had chickens and they were my pets... no way is anyone going to slaughter my pets!


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## fogy (Jun 26, 2011)

Aww, your not alone i also cry when ever i see that sort of thing. I feel so angry and it plays on my mind all day. And same here, when i tell the story people laugh!
Wish there was something we could do but the only thing i feel im contributing is being vegetarian for 15 years now and im only 21


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

yes but there has ALWAYS been heatwaves and ice ages.
its not like the earth was one steady temperature and suddenly humans arrive and hey presto the temperature gets ****** up!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Something i thought was strange while shopping was seeing vegatarian sausages 'sorry bout spelling',if you dont like the thought of eating meat why would you want to something that looks like meat?


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

metame said:


> yes but there has ALWAYS been heatwaves and ice ages.
> its not like the earth was one steady temperature and suddenly humans arrive and hey presto the temperature gets ****** up!


haha no but these changes havent been caused by humans, theyve been caused by natural events.

this time is humans screwing the planet and thats on us. Its not force of nature we cant control, its us. We are already causing mass extinctions and its only going to get worse...

@we love bhs - a lot of vegetarians just dont like where meat comes from, they still enjoy the taste.


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> haha no but these changes havent been caused by humans, theyve been caused by natural events.
> 
> this time is humans screwing the planet and thats on us. Its not force of nature we cant control, its us. We are already causing mass extinctions and its only going to get worse...


you're just saying what i've already said now.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

metame said:


> you're just saying what i've already said now.


what? your saying that humans arent causing global warming, which they are.

you make it seem like the heating and cooling of the planet is a cycle that happens inevitably of human impact. which it isnt.

which part of my argument is similar to yours?


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> what? your saying that humans arent causing global warming, which they are.
> 
> you make it seem like the heating and cooling of the planet is a cycle that happens inevitably of human impact. which it isnt.
> 
> which part of my argument is similar to yours?


i ACTUALLY said humans sped it up but that it would have happened anyway.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

metame said:


> i ACTUALLY said humans sped it up but that it would have happened anyway.


exactly. so you were saying it was inevitable? it wasnt inevitable.

past heating and cooling systems have been powered by random spontaneous events like massive volcanic eruptions.

heres a really good pic for you -

look humans arrived and BANG there goes the CO2


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> exactly. so you were saying it was inevitable? it wasnt inevitable.
> 
> past heating and cooling systems have been powered by random spontaneous events like massive volcanic eruptions.
> 
> ...


maybe it was inevitable. Maybe it's the only inevitable thing about the whole process. We insist on being able to cure every disease that kills us off and we insist on living longer and destroying more so maybe in the whole great scheme of things it was set so the only thing that could kill us off was ourselves, our selfishness and our stupidity.

Plus thats only a projected picture.


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> im sorry but was what we were just doing not exchanging views? or are you taking yours back now?
> 
> mine is backed with years of scientific research and a university degree... its pretty hard to oppose it. But good effort =]


i never once gave my views. Would you really like to know my views?

having said that if i actually gave my views then i would be better off being banned because no one would have anything to do with me and i would upset a lot of people


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> im sorry but was what we were just doing not exchanging views? or are you taking yours back now?
> 
> mine is backed with years of scientific research and a university degree... its pretty hard to oppose it. But good effort =]


Not being funny but fully fledged scientists can't agree on this subject, so no it isn't hard to oppose it 
I'm also in the park that believes humans have sped up global warming but it was going to happen eventually. It is called the cycle of life, nothing lasts forever and as humans we are very arrogant if we believe we can stop it


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> haha oh no...
> 
> have you looked at statistics? it is astonishing how you can say humans havent caused it.
> 
> im studying science and have actually studied this at uni


........................................


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I would never eat veal ......I do eat lamb occasionally but I do struggle with it .....that said I DO eat meat ....I still think im entitled to comment on this thread though and I would still feel the same as Sue if I saw them in the van going off to slaughter.....just because I eat meat it does not mean I dont feel some sort of empathy to how it is reared and looked after prior to slaughter .

As for the global warming - a load of toss - we are fed this crap by the media and government - facts are the world will change continually with our without us - yes we may have sped things up but not to the extent we are LED to believe.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Not being funny but fully fledged scientists can't agree on this subject, so no it isn't hard to oppose it
> I'm also in the park that believes humans have sped up global warming but it was going to happen eventually. It is called the cycle of life, nothing lasts forever and as humans we are very arrogant if we believe we can stop it


they cant agree on the specifics but the basics are pretty easy to understand =]

its not just about humans 'speeding it up' its that we are doing irreversible damage. It would take thousands of years for the world to recover if we stopped releasing them today... which is actually impossible from land fills. We are going in the direction of burning all of our fossil fuels. this will take tens of thousands of years to recover.

its not part of a 'cycle' we arent 'speeding it up' we are causing it and the damage will be around for the foreseeable and inforeseeable future

at my university we are given the facts and can interpret them however we want. The facts are pretty straight forward...

do you guys not believe in evolution either? or is that all a load of toss to


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2012)

just because an animal is going off to slaughter and you eat meat , does not mean you can`t have empathy with that animal , of course you do.
double standards , yes maybe , still does not take away what you feel or what you see , i`m sure if most people saw how slaughtering an animal takes place , they probably wouldn`t eat meat ever again , though the fact remains most normal everyday members of the public are not given that opportunity and i doubt some people would want to.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> they cant agree on the specifics but the basics are pretty easy to understand =]
> 
> its not just about humans 'speeding it up' its that we are doing irreversible damage. It would take thousands of years for the world to recover if we stopped releasing them today... which is actually impossible from land fills. We are going in the direction of burning all of our fossil fuels. this will take tens of thousands of years to recover.
> 
> its not part of a 'cycle' we arent 'speeding it up' we are causing it and the damage will be around for the foreseeable and inforeseeable future


They can't agree on the specifics on how it started  It is all speculation and what you take from it is up to the individual which is why environmentalists can't agree on it.
Humans are very arrogant, as a species we think we can control everything but that's not the case.
Ever thought that humans could actually be parasites that are destined to strip their environment so it could come back better? Now I can't prove that is the case, but then you can't prove otherwise


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> they cant agree on the specifics but the basics are pretty easy to understand =]
> 
> its not just about humans 'speeding it up' its that we are doing irreversible damage. It would take thousands of years for the world to recover if we stopped releasing them today... which is actually impossible from land fills. We are going in the direction of burning all of our fossil fuels. this will take tens of thousands of years to recover.
> 
> ...


.................................


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> They can't agree on the specifics on how it started  It is all speculation and what you take from it is up to the individual which is why environmentalists can't agree on it.
> Humans are very arrogant, as a species we think we can control everything but that's not the case.
> Ever thought that humans could actually be parasites that are destined to strip their environment so it could come back better? Now I can't prove that is the case, but then you can't prove otherwise


we can admit that we didnt control the last heating and cooling cycles but its a massive correlation that as soon as humans started industrializing CO2 was released. Now stop me if im wrong but isnt that the stuff that stops heat escaping from the atmosphere? woah!

Except humans arent parasites, we are predators 

the earth is not a 'living being' therefore we cannot be parasites of it

@ rona - the ice cores they removed from Antarctica that dated back the carbon dioxide levels nearly a million years.

@ diablo - and that is a good example of my saying why love one and eat the other. Its just the public living in a magical bubble of ignorance. People should wake up =]


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> They can't agree on the specifics on how it started  It is all speculation and what you take from it is up to the individual which is why environmentalists can't agree on it.
> Humans are very arrogant, as a species we think we can control everything but that's not the case.
> *Ever thought that humans could actually be parasites that are destined to strip their environment so it could come back better? * Now I can't prove that is the case, but then you can't prove otherwise


thats kinda what i believe.

im annoyed, ive just been looking for a quote from jurassic park and i cant find the quote im after and i dont want to put what i remember because im probably wrong 

i just want to say i think michael crichton had it right :lol:


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

As suggested I am not looking for sympathy why would I?I am a woman in her 50s.just started a thread on what a sh$t start I had to the day.Also yes I have been to a slaughter house and saw from start to finish was a terrible experience but I will never comment on things I have no knowledge of.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I would say as humans we are both parasites and predators - the earth may not be a living being but the earth is our host - so we are in affect parasites - i think the correct term is ecoparasites??


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I think that eating meat will never be outlawed just on the simple notion that it is impossible to sustain the world on a vegetable and fruit only diet.To create the land for growing vegetables more rainforests and animals will die.Most breeds of cattle and sheep would die out.Meat is a multi million industry and many jobs would be lost,it is not viable.If you are going to slaughter an animal to use its hide then you should use the rest of the animal for meat.If you must kill something then every part of it should be used otherwise it is a crime.
I myself wouldn't really want to see the animal that is going to turn up on my dinner plate and if i had to kill to eat i would be a vegetain.If animal must die to feed us then they should be raised in a humane enviroment and killed quickly and efficiently.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

suewhite said:


> This morning when I was going to work at 5am I got stuck on the M25 as there had been an accident,I got stuck next to a lorry and when I looked the most beautiful calf and I got eye contact it looked so scared this was an abattoir lorry it was packed full of them, but this one and I just stared at each other for 20 minutes I was in floods of tears,cant get its face out my mind,to cap it all when I got to work they thought it was funny.:sad:


Unfortuanately non animal lovers can never seem to get the connection that animal lovers have with all sorts of animals not just their own.

I do know how you feel, I very stupidly watched a you tube of whats happening to the stray dogs in the Ukraine because of the bloody football, and although it was harrowing one dogs plight in particular gave me nightmares for the next few days. I feel sick now just thinking of it.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

this appears to have gone way off track and I am closing for a while to have a look.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

If you want to have a debate on global warming could you do it on another thread and not is such an aggressive manner. It was totally irrelevant to the topic of this thread, though I have left some of the earlier comments in place.
Sue, I'm sorry for your traumatic experience this morning. You don't need to be vegetarian to feel empathy for any animal.
I grew up in a farming community and know exactly where my food comes from and how it gets to my table but I can still look at a field full of young lambs and think they are cute.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

If only there was a plant that tasted like beef or veg that tasted like pork.....

I love meat but I too would be affected by the eyes of an animal going to slaughter...it's our emotions...our empathy... and one to be proud of rather than laughed at.

I'd rather have feelings and be sensitive than be completely devoid of any.....


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I am a self professed hypocrite. I hate the idea of slaughterhouses and abbatoirs, but I just dont have the willpower to go full on veggy.

Being a meat eater doesnt make one heartless or devoid of empathy.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I think maybe because I have been to a slaughterhouse and seen the goings on, thats why it got to me.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> @ diablo - and that is a good example of my saying why love one and eat the other. Its just the public living in a magical bubble of ignorance. People should wake up =]


but you keep snakes don`t you ? and although you don`t eat meat yourself , you are infact allowing one animal to die so you can feed another. it`s exactly the same thing. those rodents are farmed/reared in exactly the same way the meat at someones table,,,,,i own snakes , as you know , do i feel empathy for the rodents i feed them ? of course i do!!! 
which is why i source them as ethically as possible. you can`t condemn someone being a meat eater and accuse them of living in a `bubble of ignorance` tell them to wake up and in the same hand own the pets you do , you loose all face of that argument.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm so sorry you had such an awful start to the day Sue & you work colleagues are pathetic.



we love bsh's said:


> Something i thought was strange while shopping was seeing vegatarian sausages 'sorry bout spelling',if you dont like the thought of eating meat why would you want to *something that looks like meat*?


Speaking as a vegetarian who once loved meat but couldn't stomach the ethical side of slaughter, I like the fact that I have the option to have 'sausages' & 'bacon' if the rest of my family is having a fry up



diablo said:


> but you keep snakes don`t you ? and although you don`t eat meat yourself , you are infact allowing one animal to die so you can feed another. it`s exactly the same thing. those rodents are farmed/reared in exactly the same way the meat at someones table,,,,,i own snakes , as you know , do i feel empathy for the rodents i feed them ? of course i do!!!
> which is why i source them as ethically as possible. you can`t condemn someone being a meat eater and accuse them of living in a `bubble of ignorance` tell them to wake up and in the same hand own the pets you do , you loose all face of that argument.


Have to say very well said Diablo, I don't believe in imposing my beliefs on my animals but if I really felt strongly enough to be critical of other members' lifestyle choices I would seriously consider the species I share my life with.


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## mandy5775 (Jun 7, 2011)

LostGirl said:


> It's those faces are way I do t eat meat anymore  they know what's happening the sadness shows on their faces


Me too, I don't touch meat. If you can't kill it yourself then you shouldn't eat it. It must have been the most awful drive to work, I bet you felt like just opening the doors and letting them all out...poor wee souls. Hope you feel better now.


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

I dont think it is funny to feel emotional at that. I always get upset when I am in transport and a lorry full of animals comes along  Mostly looking over crowded and trying to stick their tongues out of any gap they can find for some rain/air. The image stays with me for a good while longer. It isnt nice at all.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

my heart lurches when i see them on the way to slaughter, they look so scared


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## codyann (Jan 8, 2011)

i know what you mean i would of been the same, don't worry about your work mates there obviously not in love with animals as everyone on here. 
hope you feel better soon


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> but you keep snakes don`t you ? and although you don`t eat meat yourself , you are infact allowing one animal to die so you can feed another. it`s exactly the same thing. those rodents are farmed/reared in exactly the same way the meat at someones table,,,,,i own snakes , as you know , do i feel empathy for the rodents i feed them ? of course i do!!!
> which is why i source them as ethically as possible. you can`t condemn someone being a meat eater and accuse them of living in a `bubble of ignorance` tell them to wake up and in the same hand own the pets you do , you loose all face of that argument.


keeping snakes and feeding them rats is not the same as the MASSIVE and extremely damaging industry of meat. Meat animals are killed and kept in a cruel way, some are bashed to death. In most cases they have horrible short lives and if they are 'lucky' enough to survive to breed they have their offspring ripped from them and slaughtered.

my rats run on little wheels, have delicious food and lots of space to run around. They are gassed with CO2 and go to sleep, the most humane way to die for a small animal.

just because they die for me to feed my snakes doesnt make it the same as eating meat. This is just all of the meat eaters trying to justify their actions and feel better about themselves for their choice to support cruelty. I get it all the time =]

eating the flesh of animals and supporting a cruel industry is mutually exclusive with loving the animal.

Unless you farm your own animals and slaughter them yourselves you cannot justify your actions, no matter how many petitions you sign.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

The reason I suggested that this experience was worth making a decision to remove one meat meal a week, is because it is 'doable'. Even rabied meat eaters, those who are honest, that they can't give up meat, can make the commitment to give up one meat meal a week.

It does seem too little, but in the scale of even 1% of the country, it would make an extraordinary difference. It may seem not worth the effort, as an individual, but it will make a difference.

In 5 years, you may feel you can cut out another meat meal. If you want to do it right, have a vegan meal, as the dairy industry is not a gentle, 'milk cows and live a benevolent life' industry.

People write off sheep, as so stupid, almost unable to understand death. Sheep can be very intelligent... They just don't think like dogs, and we judge animal intelligence against dogs.

I have a sheep whose last lamb, before she came to me, was taken by a dog or fox. She is fearless and frightening, near dogs. Truly a Boudicca, tho she is named after the widow of WW2 bomber pilot, named Mabel. Joan was bred to be eaten. She is placid, gentle, intelligent, goodnatured... Emilia is gentle, refined, hates noise and roughness. Gussie is a party girl, she LOVES her food, and will jump in the van, as will Joan, if I just put a bucket in. THe thought of these and all my girls and wethers, being sent to slaughter, is as unthikable to me, as it would be, for you to imagine your dogs and cats slaughtered for meat.

I don't think my girls and boys are exceptional. Iknow there are Joans and Gussies and Emilias, and Georges and Patsys in the yards, every week.

So, even making the change of 1 meat meal a week now, does make a difference. and for the record, I do believe this crisis building is human caused and it is more like 99% of scientists in those fields, agree that it is human caused.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Hope you are feeling a bit better this morning Sue  xx

As for the debate itself - I stand by what I have said I am a meat eater and an animal lover......I do not have to justify my actions to anyone ....each to their own


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> *If only there was a plant that tasted like beef or veg that tasted like pork*.....
> 
> I love meat but I too would be affected by the eyes of an animal going to slaughter...it's our emotions...our empathy... and one to be proud of rather than laughed at.
> 
> I'd rather have feelings and be sensitive than be completely devoid of any.....


It would be lovely I find mushrooms fill that space nicely, I could quite happily eat mushrooms every meal
Except breakfast, as I doubt they'd go well sprinkled on Shredded Wheat:blink:


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> keeping snakes and feeding them rats is not the same as the MASSIVE and extremely damaging industry of meat. Meat animals are killed and kept in a cruel way, some are bashed to death. In most cases they have horrible short lives and if they are 'lucky' enough to survive to breed they have their offspring ripped from them and slaughtered.
> 
> my rats run on little wheels, have delicious food and lots of space to run around. They are gassed with CO2 and go to sleep, the most humane way to die for a small animal.
> 
> ...


you`ve just proved how incredibly blinkered you are , see i couldn`t raise rodents myself , rear them lovingly then have them die at my own hand,,,,sorry that`s just me and that`s just the way it is. just proves how different we all are.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> keeping snakes and feeding them rats is not the same as the MASSIVE and extremely damaging industry of meat. Meat animals are killed and kept in a cruel way, some are bashed to death. In most cases they have horrible short lives and if they are 'lucky' enough to survive to breed they have their offspring ripped from them and slaughtered.
> 
> my rats run on little wheels, have delicious food and lots of space to run around. They are gassed with CO2 and go to sleep, the most humane way to die for a small animal.
> 
> ...


Wonder if the rats you gas have the same view. Cannot see it is any different from raising livestock for human consumption, just on a smaller scale thats all so its incredibly hypocritical


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> you`ve just proved how incredibly blinkered you are , see i couldn`t raise rodents myself , rear them lovingly then have them die at my own hand,,,,sorry that`s just me and that`s just the way it is. just proves how different we all are.


what is a blinkered?

a close friend of mine actually raises the rodents i use =] i could never kill them myself, but i see how they are kept and killed when i go and visit him. Very very humane and i have a clear conscious!

@ doodlesrule - i thought i already made this point... I SEE how the rats are kept and killed. It is a miniscule scale, no cruelty, no methane released into the atmosphere. Its a lot different to killing millions of animals a year to get your 'meat fix'.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> keeping snakes and feeding them rats is not the same as the MASSIVE and extremely damaging industry of meat. Meat animals are killed and kept in a cruel way, some are bashed to death. In most cases they have horrible short lives and if they are 'lucky' enough to survive to breed they have their offspring ripped from them and slaughtered.
> 
> my rats run on little wheels, have delicious food and lots of space to run around. They are gassed with CO2 and go to sleep, the most humane way to die for a small animal.
> 
> ...


I'm sure there are rat owners on the forum who find that comment offensive, as long as it fits in with _your_ lifestyle it's OK that something has to die is it? Sorry but that is just hypocrisy & makes you look a fool.
Your signature consists of two species that _need_ a carnivorous diet to thrive & one that _should_ have a carnivorous diet, so you are buying into an industry you have just condemned in order to feed them. That is, unless those aren't your pets, in which case my apologies.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> what is a blinkered?
> 
> a close friend of mine actually raises the rodents i use =] *i could never kill them myself*, but i see how they are kept and killed when i go and visit him. Very very humane and i have a clear conscious!
> 
> @ doodlesrule - i thought i already made this point... I SEE how the rats are kept and killed. It is a miniscule scale, no cruelty, no methane released into the atmosphere. Its a lot different to killing millions of animals a year to get your 'meat fix'.





> Unless you farm your own animals and slaughter them yourselves you cannot justify your actions, no matter how many petitions you sign.


....you dont farm and kill the rats you feed, you admit you cant, you have someone else do it.

Just like I couldnt kill a cow for my yummy burger.

the difference is we (meat eaters) KNOW we are hypocrites when it comes to what we feel and what we do. You seem to perch yourself on some pedestal way on high.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> what is a blinkered?
> 
> a close friend of mine actually raises the rodents i use =] i could never kill them myself, but i see how they are kept and killed when i go and visit him. Very very humane and i have a clear conscious!
> 
> @ doodlesrule - i thought i already made this point...* I SEE how the rats are kept and killed*. It is a miniscule scale, no cruelty, no methane released into the atmosphere. Its a lot different to killing millions of animals a year to get your 'meat fix'.


see there are pet owners here that wouldn`t agree to that. no matter how much you dress it up some would still view that as cruel. rats are an intelligent animal , they`d still feel fear as they were being gassed , so whichever way you look at it , doesn`t make it right. i can`t exactly see why you`d say all you do , then go and do the same thing yourself albeit on a much smaller scale.
as i said previously , i couldn`t do that , because i`d just end up keeping them all so they didn`t have to die at my own hands , just couldn`t do it , sorry.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm sure there are rat owners on the forum who find that comment offensive, as long as it fits in with _your_ lifestyle it's OK that something has to die is it? Sorry but that is just hypocrisy & makes you look a fool.
> Your signature consists of two species that _need_ a carnivorous diet to thrive & one that _should_ have a carnivorous diet, so you are buying into an industry you have just condemned in order to feed them. That is, unless those aren't your pets, in which case my apologies.


I love all animals and take offense from all meat eaters.

I actually dont know how many times i need to explain this before you understand... The meat industry is MASSIVE! and cruel and is releasing ridiculous amount of pollution.

i buy free range chicken from a farm that i have visited and know the owners of. It is on such a miniscule scale compared to human meat consumption...

My close friend breeds and kills the rats for me. As i have said earlier, unless you know exactly where your meat is coming from you cant justify it.

i know exactly where all of my meat is coming from =] I do not eat any animal products so my ecological footprint is still a fraction of what all the meat eaters are even with my cats and snakes.

@ diablo - YOU KEEP SNAKES TO! stop trying to be a hero... you kill more rats then me. I just actually know where mine come from and know they are kept well. do you?

rats do not feel fear as they are gassed, they go to sleep.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm so sorry you were left feeling so upset - it must of been a very moving experience.
I always think cows have the most beautiful eyes.
I hope you are feeling better today, and can find a balance in your life that is right for you.

I'm a meat eater - I'm not niave to the meat and dairy industry I know where my food comes from and I do my best within the contraints of my purse to eat as ethically as I can.

I own dogs who need meat in thier diet, I do believe that if I was vegitarian because I was against the meat industry, as opposed to just not liking meat, then I wouldn't own dogs.

I've never imposed my diet on others - however when challenged on my choice to eat meat, which happens frequently by vegitarians/vegans, I will challenge back - and the number of people I've spoken to over the years who've never heard of rennet or even have a basic knowledge of meat/dairy by-products amazes me - personally I research my diet and when my daughter became vegitarian we spent a lot of time understanding the source of food and what would make a balanced diet for her, the same as I did for me and my family over the years as meat eaters.

As I said my eldest daughter is a vegitarian, I've never tried to confince her otherwise, over the years I've prepared her meals seperately from ours. She personally owns a house rabbit and although she loves my dogs she could never own one due to the need to buy into the meat industry.
She has considered becoming vegan but at this time has decided not to - she is unsure how to live a truly vegan life, how far do you take it? Does the glue in your shoes or sofa matter?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> Wonder if the rats you gas have the same view. Cannot see it is any different from raising livestock for human consumption, just on a smaller scale thats all so its incredibly hypocritical


I agree 100% if someone is that against meat being slaughtered and eaten then surely you would NEVER own a pet which has to be fed livestock ?? I just think that is so hypocritical to think it is different!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

diablo said:


> see there are pet owners here that wouldn`t agree to that. no matter how much you dress it up some would still view that as cruel. rats are an intelligent animal , they`d still feel fear as they were being gassed , so whichever way you look at it , doesn`t make it right. i can`t exactly see why you`d say all you do , then go and do the same thing yourself albeit on a much smaller scale.
> as i said previously , i couldn`t do that , because i`d just end up keeping them all so they didn`t have to die at my own hands , just couldn`t do it , sorry.


This is how I feel, I love snakes, but having shared my life with rats for over 20 years I just couldn't have snakes. I feel rats get a raw deal in life from all sides, so some of us have to be on their side


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I love all animals and take offense from all meat eaters.
> 
> I actually dont know how many times i need to explain this before you understand... The meat industry is MASSIVE! and cruel and is releasing ridiculous amount of pollution.
> 
> ...


thing is , do you know how big the reptile industry is in the UK ?? they are actually the nations number one pet here now , can you actually imagine how many rodents are killed daily to feed them ?? these rodents as i said are farmed / reared in exactly the same way the meat at someones table,,,explain to me HOW different that is ?? thing is you can`t , and no matter how much you try and justify to me how lovingly your rodents are reared then killed still doesn`t make sense how you can say one thing , then keep the pets you do. yes i keep reptiles , i completely understand that some find that distasteful , but you see , at least i can sit here with a clear conscience and say , yes i eat meat , i keep reptiles that need pre killed feeds. i`m under no illusion how either are farmed , or killed all i am saying doesn`t make it right , each to their own , live and let live.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Some might say that even though you feed ethically farmed rats, you bought from a breeder who would have sold other snakes to other people who, more than likely, buy mass farmed rats, and will likely continue to do so - by buying a snake in the first place you are indirectly feeding a market which encourages cruel rearing and killing of rodents.



curve-ball!


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> thing is , do you know how big the reptile industry is in the UK ?? they are actually the nations number one pet here now , can you actually imagine how many rodents are killed daily to feed them ?? these rodents as i said are farmed / reared in exactly the same way the meat at someones table,,,explain to me HOW different that is ?? thing is you can`t , and no matter how much you try and justify to me how lovingly your rodents are reared then killed still doesn`t make sense how you can say one thing , then keep the pets you do. yes i keep reptiles , i completely understand that some find that distasteful , but you see , at least i can sit here with a clear conscience and say , yes i eat meat , i keep reptiles that need pre killed feeds. i`m under no illusion how either are farmed , or killed all i am saying doesn`t make it right , each to their own , live and let live.


im from australia =] i dont care how big reptiles are in the UK, i do not contribute to them at all.

I do not support the cruel killing and confinement of rats. Mine are good. I like rats to, thats why i only buy from a private breeder and would never buy from someone whos rats i hadnt visited.

My rodents are not farmed in a way that is remotely like farm animals... I thought i made this clear?

@ grumpy goby - maybe i bought a couch once and the couch store owner bought dinner at a restaurant and the person whos wages the restaurant payed murdered someone... am i a murderer? =O


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> @ diablo - YOU KEEP SNAKES TO! stop trying to be a hero... you kill more rats then me. I just actually know where mine come from and know they are kept well. do you?
> 
> rats do not feel fear as they are gassed, they go to sleep.


yes i do , the difference being , i couldn`t lovingly rear rodents , then decide to kill them , that`s just me. yes , i do know where the rodents i source come from , i trust the people implicitly that i buy from. 
at least i can sleep with a clear conscience and say `they didn`t die at my own hand` can you ?
seems to me your completely trying to change tack and stories to suit you


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

lymorelynn said:


> If you want to have a debate on global warming could you do it on another thread and not is such an aggressive manner. It was totally irrelevant to the topic of this thread, though I have left some of the earlier comments in place.
> Sue, I'm sorry for your traumatic experience this morning. You don't need to be vegetarian to feel empathy for any animal.
> I grew up in a farming community and know exactly where my food comes from and how it gets to my table but I can still look at a field full of young lambs and think they are cute.


thankyou!!!!
its not just me!


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> yes i do , the difference being , i couldn`t lovingly rear rodents , then decide to kill them , that`s just me. yes , i do know where the rodents i source come from , i trust the people implicitly that i buy from.
> at least i can sleep with a clear conscience and say `they didn`t die at my own hand` can you ?
> seems to me your completely trying to change tack and stories to suit you


ive actually said twice now that i buy them from a close friend. I do not kill them myself... seriously


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> im from australia =] i dont care how big reptiles are in the UK, i do not contribute to them at all.


ah! but you should , see theres things going on right now that could possibly effect ALL reptile keepers or are you not aware of that ?


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> I am a self professed hypocrite. I hate the idea of slaughterhouses and abbatoirs, but I just dont have the willpower to go full on veggy.
> 
> Being a meat eater doesnt make one heartless or devoid of empathy.


again what i was trying to say 
i love animals, but my mum cannot afford different meals and to be honest i like meat but that doesn't make me feel different to how you guys feel about slaughter ect i hate the thought of it but i try to avoid thinking because it gets me caught up in the same situation of thinking should i go veggie? "sigh"


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> ive actually said twice now that i buy them from a close friend. I do not kill them myself... seriously


So no different than meat eaters who do not kill the animal personally then ie not facing up to the unpleasant side. Why don't you breed your own rats and kill them yourself?


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> So no different than meat eaters who do not kill the animal personally then ie not facing up to the unpleasant side. Why don't you breed your own rats and kill them yourself?


tbh there are many reasons.

-money
-space
-my housemates wouldnt like it
-what to do when i moved
-smell
-electricity

i wouldnt like killing them but it would be something i could face up to if the situation arose.

its not just about people killing them themselves its actually knowing where it comes from, which the majority of the people dont.

@ diablo - if it affected me i would know what 'it' is.


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I love all animals and take offense from all meat eaters.
> 
> I actually dont know how many times i need to explain this before you understand... The meat industry is MASSIVE! and cruel and is releasing ridiculous amount of pollution.
> 
> ...


How can you say this! 
your making your self sound really silly! 
your happy to offend all uss meat eaters with your comments 
but its fine for you to feed your snakes rats! Yes its nature but as a strong minded person like you are you shouldn't be keeping snakes because you completely going against everything youv said! i feel very offended i have two rats and they are highly intelligent and would sure sence if they were being killed! i think this debait has gone way to far and you need to stop before you make yourself look worse


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

neash98 said:


> How can you say this!
> your making your self sound really silly!
> your happy to offend all uss meat eaters with your comments
> but its fine for you to feed your snakes rats! Yes its nature but as a strong minded person like you are you shouldn't be keeping snakes because you completely going against everything youv said! i feel very offended i have two rats and they are highly intelligent and would sure sence if they were being killed! i think this debait has gone way to far and you need to stop before you make yourself look worse


haha you eat animals and you think i look silly?

as i have said i am not a perfect vegan =]

you eat pigs and they are geniuses compared to rats! and they make fantastic pets. Pigs are not killed humanely like my rats are.

they do not sense anything =] ive watched it, they just go to sleep. No pain, no suffering.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> im from australia =] i dont care how big reptiles are in the UK, i do not contribute to them at all.
> 
> @ grumpy goby - maybe i bought a couch once and the couch store owner bought dinner at a restaurant and the person whos wages the restaurant payed murdered someone... am i a murderer? =O


no because the wages did not directly murder someone. They breed snakes, more than the one you bought. So they are feeding the rat killing market. By buying their "product" you are supporting them feeding that market. If people didnt buy the snakes, they wouldnt breed them, and people wouldnt need to buy farmed rats for food, the rat-for-food market would wither and potentially rat farmers would go out of business..... See how your comparison doesnt tie up?

By buying the snake, you are indirectly feeding the cruel practice performed by mass rat farmers


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> haha you eat animals and you think i look silly?
> 
> as i have said i am not a perfect vegan =]
> 
> ...


You are deluded


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> haha you eat animals and you think i look silly?
> 
> as i have said i am not a perfect vegan =]
> 
> ...


hold on,
i no im a hypocrite
i love animals but i cant bring myself to stop 
but on the other hand we have you not eating animals and offending anyone who does but then your happy to watch them die 
im not the silly one


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> haha you eat animals and you think i look silly?
> 
> as i have said i am not a perfect vegan =]
> 
> ...


now your just being deliberately offensive. 
pigs in general do NOT make good pets , they are a herd animal. your rats would feel `fear` before they went to sleep because they are intelligent enough to realize to know whats coming.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Jazzz said:


> haha you eat animals and you think i look silly?
> 
> as i have said i am not a perfect vegan =]
> 
> ...


How do you really know that though?? are you in their mind?? - the fact is they are still being killed merely to supply your snake with food - a living thing is being killed for the sake of another ...something which in your ethic you should be against at all costs...your whole argument against us fellow meat eaters just falls apart and you have no credence what so ever because you DO kill animals even if not personally - I assume you must pay this breeder??


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

ohh and jazz just want to put it out there 
pigs, cows, sheep they are all bread for meat 
if we dont eat them they wont be here because they have no purpose harsh but true! 
domestic rats are bred for pets! 
so tbh i think your the cruel one


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

the person i get my rats off doesnt actually breed snakes =] he has a small private collection of his own.

my whole moral for not eating meat is the way they are kept and killed, which is cruel. As i have said, if you know where your meat is coming from and can live with that then you can justify it. Buying your meat from a supermarket and living in ignorance is what im against. 

i know exactly where my rats are coming from and i can live with that. I have watched them be gassed and have studied animal behavior and can identify stress signals, which they do not present. 

I have friends with pet pigs and they are fantastic! house trained and know more tricks then any dog i know =] I plan to get one when i buy my own home.

@ neash98 - so? the species would still be kept alive like any domestic animal through pets. I think they have a much greater purpose then rats... Actually these rats are lab rats, not bred (not bread that i eat) to be pets at all.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

No one assumed your rat breeder breeds snakes...whoever you got your snake off breeds snakes, thats who is supporting the rat farming market directly, and you indirectly through. 


Unless of course you caught your snake in the wild!


Also, buying meatfrom a supermarket isnt ignorant, I know the processes, I agree it is cruel and I dont agree with it. However, I have no alternatives and I dont want to stop eating meat. I know this is hypocritical and have no problem accepting that, as I accept any of my other faults. (Ignorant meaning a lack of understanding or knowledge. I understand and have the knowledge, it just doesnt stop me doing it..)

What I object to is the "holier than thou" attitude of people who cannot accept their own shortfalls and hyprocrisys.


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> the person i get my rats off doesnt actually breed snakes =] he has a small private collection of his own.
> 
> my whole moral for not eating meat is the way they are kept and killed, which is cruel. As i have said, if you know where your meat is coming from and can live with that then you can justify it. Buying your meat from a supermarket and living in ignorance is what im against.
> 
> ...


But your still happy to take there life and thats what annoys me! yes they probs do have a better purpose but if we stopped using them for meat that purpose would be gone


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> No one assumed your rat breeder breeds snakes...whoever you got your snake off breeds snakes, thats who is supporting the rat farming market directly, and you indirectly through.
> 
> Unless of course you caught your snake in the wild!
> 
> ...


actually the people who i bought my snakes off no longer has snakes =] i have them all. How am i still indirectly contributing?? it was a bit of a far fetched idea to begin with...

i get this a lot... meat eaters just feel guilty that they dont have the strength to change their lifestyle for the good of the animals and the planet.

I have accepted my shortfalls and live quite happily with them =]

@ neash98 - what??? yes the purpose of them being meat for people would be gone, thats the point!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think many would agree with you on the points you have raised about supermarket buying etc which is why many do not buy from them or try to raise awareness and do their bit about the cruelty of how some are bred etc -every little bit of awareness and campaigning does help you know - laws get changed people who are informed about things can then make their own personal choices etc - 

Some people have little choice but to buy from supermarkets as they cannot afford any other .....it does not mean they dont care - they try and make a difference in other ways .....people who eat meat are not heartless idiots who dont care which is what you seem to be saying to us here....you seem to see things very black and white for others but for yourself there are many areas of grey .....bit confusing really :crazy:


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> actually the people who i bought my snakes off no longer has snakes =] i have them all. How am i still indirectly contributing?? it was a bit of a far fetched idea to begin with...
> 
> i get this a lot... meat eaters just feel guilty that they dont have the strength to change their lifestyle for the good of the animals and the planet.
> 
> I have accepted my shortfalls and live quite happily with them =]


Thats convenient ^^ Its not far fetched either, one would normally buy pets from someone who breeds pets, no? I would say its more far fetched to assume that you bought his whole stock of snakes.

PS. I dont feel guilty at all, Im eating a ham sandwich as we speak. My dad and his wife are veggy and Iv never once had a dispute with them over it because they dont preach their lifestyle to me, nor do they attempt to act superior based on a few life choices. I comment here purely because I find your attitude towards people who do not live by your own life choices is objectionable.


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

izzie: its not the point! because if no-one ate meat they wouldn't be here! 
i dont see how you dont see that, they are only here because we can get produce out of them (i dont like it) but there too exspencive to just buy and have in the garden! people buy them to get something our of them and in this case its meat! so if everyone was like you, theyd be rare amount of cattle!


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

grumpy goby said:


> Thats convenient ^^ Its not far fetched either, one would normally buy pets from someone who breeds pets, no? I would say its more far fetched to assume that you bought his whole stock of snakes.
> 
> PS. I dont feel guilty at all, Im eating a ham sandwich as we speak. My dad and his wife are veggy and Iv never once had a dispute with them over it because they dont preach their lifestyle to me, nor do they attempt to act superior based on a few life choices. I comment here purely because I find your attitude towards people who do not live by your own life choices is objectionable.


4 snakes? because he was moving over seas? i got a great deal to 

i actually get all of my pets from shelters. Never from a breeder.

i only express my opinions when the subject is brought up. I actually have a non veggie housemate and we have never spoken on the subject apart from pleasantries.

@ neash98 - and this is bad because...?


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

Thought I'd finally reply to this thread so don't mind me!

I can't eat meat. I actually just can't, I saw a video from some slaughter place once and since if I attempt at putting meat in my mouth I feel like ill be sick and I will gag. Its all in my mind I know before the vid I was fine, guess I'm a sensitive soul. 

I will cook and make ham/beef sarnies etc for my fella, feed my dogs meat, feed my snakes. I would never push people into not eating certain foods, I wouldn't like it done to me so I don't do it to others. Education is the best way, if people went and saw what happened then made the decision they still can eat meat, its all their choice isn't it


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Exactly its all about choice and not shoving your own choices down other peoples throats in a superior manner : here here!


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> It would be lovely I find mushrooms fill that space nicely, I could quite happily eat mushrooms every meal
> Except breakfast, as I doubt they'd go well sprinkled on Shredded Wheat:blink:


I lovvvvve mushrooms  I think you should try the shredded wheat thing and let me know how it goes 



Jazzz said:


> I love all animals and take offense from all meat eaters.
> 
> I actually dont know how many times i need to explain this before you understand... The meat industry is MASSIVE! and cruel and is releasing ridiculous amount of pollution.
> 
> ...


Errr you asked any recently??
You can't have things both ways, you either condemn the killing of animals to feed other animals (cos we are still animals at the end of the day ) or you don't, you can't pick and choose what is ok just to suit your wants/needs :nono:

Can I ask have you actually been to an abattoir to see the process from start to finish? Or are your thoughts based on media hype?


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

@ neash98 - and this is bad because...?[/QUOTE]

Because they would be no food left! 
What i really dont understand you 
you dont like uss eating the cows but your happy for them to wiped out 
(witch wont happen, only in extreme cases )


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i hate it when i see lorrys loaded with animals off to slaughter aswell, they always look so forlorn or terrified


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

neash98 said:


> @ neash98 - and this is bad because...?


[QUOTE =Because they would be no food left! 
What i really dont understand you 
you dont like uss eating the cows but your happy for them to wiped out 
(witch wont happen, only in extreme cases )[/QUOTE]

uhhh what? the reason they would go extinct is because we wouldnt be using them for food? and you just said yourself it wouldnt happen? your talking in circles...

@ b3rnie - i do not have to be for or against it. I am seriously not explaining the difference again ( go back and read) i feel like im talking to a brick wall... I have actually been to an abattoir, i would never like to return.


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

it seems like im not really getting anywere! 
i have to go and see to my rats and get on with stuff 
ill speak to you maybe in a debait we can agree on because yes i agree i feel like im going in circles having to repeat and i have better things to be doing


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

neash98 said:


> @ neash98 - and this is bad because...?





> Because they would be no food left!
> What i really dont understand you
> you dont like uss eating the cows but your happy for them to wiped out
> (witch wont happen, only in extreme cases )


[/QUOTE]

thats not true at all, there would actually be more food (just not meat), it takes 3 kg of grain to produce just 1kg of meat, so the less animals the more food to go round.

im sure if livestock knew their fate they would rather never be born.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> @ b3rnie - i do not have to be for or against it. I am seriously not explaining the difference again ( go back and read) i feel like im talking to a brick wall... I have actually been to an abattoir, i would never like to return.


If that is the case, stop condemning others for having the same choice 

I have read your post and all I read is judgmental tripe, sorry but that's my opinion


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> I think many would agree with you on the points you have raised about supermarket buying etc which is why many do not buy from them or try to raise awareness and do their bit about the cruelty of how some are bred etc -every little bit of awareness and campaigning does help you know - laws get changed people who are informed about things can then make their own personal choices etc -
> 
> Some people have little choice but to buy from supermarkets as they cannot afford any other .....it does not mean they dont care - they try and make a difference in other ways .....people who eat meat are not heartless idiots who dont care which is what you seem to be saying to us here....you seem to see things very black and white for others but for yourself there are many areas of grey .....bit confusing really :crazy:


My dad, who isn't alive any more, was a butcher, as was his dad before him. He went on a bike, every Sunday, chose animals for the next week from a couple of farms near where we live, they were driven, by the farmers, who knew their names in a small trailer with plenty of space, to my dads slaughter house where they were killed, by my uncle, then driven the couple of minutes to the shop in the van and obviously sold - with every scrap of them being used for something and none wasted.

When I was a child at school, I was bullied a lot because some people in my class thought my dad was a "murderer" and I became vegetarian because of this, as I got older I carried on being a vegetarian because I disagree with things like cutting down rainforests to grow things to feed cows for beef etc.

Now I'm older, I think that the way my dad did things is so totally different to what would happen to animals destined for the supermarket - and actually much much nicer, and I wish I'd been less harsh on him - I do eat meat now, if I know where it's come from and I approve!

When I see people saying things like "they'd like to buy more ethically produced meat but can't afford to" so they have to eat battery chickens or whatever, it's not up to me to judge, but I know I'd rather have meat rarely, and know where it's from - I wouldn't enjoy it.

Naomi


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

sorry guys, i went of track and probs said stuff that's untrue 
i agreed with most people, but then got side tracked im only 13 and not very brainy! but i no when i see wrong from right and izzy i may have slipped up on my last few comments but my point is i disagree with many things you ave said


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

i do get annoyed when people say they cant afford it either... then dont eat it =/ my grocery bill is nearly half of my other carnivorous friends with fresh fruit and veg! Its very good for a person on a budget and for those watching their figure  

@ miss naomi - that is sustainable farming, unfortunately that is the minority today =[

@ b3rnie - i have explained my reasons many times... dont say i dont have any now because i just cant be bothered to repeat them again!

@neash98 - who is izzy?


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> i do get annoyed when people say they cant afford it either... then dont eat it =/ my grocery bill is nearly half of my other carnivorous friends with fresh fruit and veg! Its very good for a person on a budget and for those watching their figure
> 
> @ miss naomi - that is sustainable farming, unfortunately that is the minority today =[
> 
> @ b3rnie - i have explained my reasons many times... dont say i dont have any now because i just cant be bothered to repeat them again!


Yes, yes you have, you still haven't answered "You asked the rats if they suffer when being gassed? Do you actually know what being gassed feels like?"

Any meat I eat is sourced from a local farm and then the abattoir is in the same area (10 mins down the road) so let me ask, how is that any different to you killing rats for food for your snakes?
Are you vegan btw or do you eat eggs?


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Yes, yes you have, you still haven't answered "You asked the rats if they suffer when being gassed? Do you actually know what being gassed feels like?"
> 
> Any meat I eat is sourced from a local farm and then the abattoir is in the same area (10 mins down the road) so let me ask, how is that any different to you killing rats for food for your snakes?
> Are you vegan btw or do you eat eggs?


I can look at them and see =] as i said i have studied animal behaviour so can identify stress in animals. Its over too quick for them to even realise whats happening.

That isnt as bad as sourcing meat from a supermarket. You never mentioned this earlier.

i dont eat dairy but i eat eggs from the chickens i saved from the battery that live at my parents friends house =]


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## neash98 (Jun 14, 2012)

sorry i ment jazz


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Jazzz said:


> I can look at them and see =] as i said i have studied animal behaviour so can identify stress in animals. Its over too quick for them to even realise whats happening.
> 
> That isnt as bad as sourcing meat from a supermarket. You never mentioned this earlier.
> 
> i dont eat dairy but i eat eggs from the chickens i saved from the battery that live at my parents friends house =]


To be honest NONE of us have actually said how we source our meat to you - you have ASSUMED we are all nasty people who eat meat with no regard for their welfare - hence my comment of you seeing things in black and white for others but then you split hairs for your own actions ....as for you studying animal behaviour im sorry but I think thats a load of ****** ....and the reason I say this is because of this sentence "I can look at them and see " - that is not studying animal behaviour and if you were knowlegable in this area you would see how that sentence just sounds so ridiculous!! anyone can do that !

and now you have saved battery hens and they live with a friends  how convenient lol 

End of the day you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine ...I do however think you are making many things up and for that reason Im now bowing out of this because for me the debate is no longer viable on those grounds ...


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> *I can look at them and see =] as i said i have studied animal behaviour so can identify stress in animals*. Its over too quick for them to even realise whats happening.
> 
> That isnt as bad as sourcing meat from a supermarket. You never mentioned this earlier.
> 
> i dont eat dairy but i eat eggs from the chickens i saved from the battery that live at my parents friends house =]


I'm sorry but that is just speculation, that's all we can ever do when it comes to animals that don't speak the same language, just because you think that is ok doesn't mean everyone will. Personally I find it abhorrent but I don't try to force those beliefs on others because I know snakes still have to eat 

So do you buy cruelty free animal products? Medicines? Toiletries?
The point of my posts is to show that just because you believe you are living as cruelty free as possible, doesn't mean that another will have the same view.
Which is fine, this world would be a very boring place if we all had the same opinions, but you seem to condemn anyone that doesn't have the same view regardless of how they formed that opinion, heck you called me uneducated because I didn't have the same view as you yesterday  Which couldn't be further from the truth I might add


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> To be honest NONE of us have actually said how we source our meat to you - you have ASSUMED we are all nasty people who eat meat with no regard for their welfare - hence my comment of you seeing things in black and white for others but then you split hairs for your own actions ....as for you studying animal behaviour im sorry but I think thats a load of ****** ....and the reason I say this is because of this sentence "I can look at them and see " - that is not studying animal behaviour and if you were knowlegable in this area you would see how that sentence just sounds so ridiculous!! anyone can do that !
> 
> and now you have saved battery hens and they live with a friends  how convenient lol
> 
> End of the day you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine ...I do however think you are making many things up and for that reason Im now bowing out of this because for me the debate is no longer viable on those grounds ...


everything i have said is factual =] stress factors are very easy to identify. Youve obviously studied this and know how animal behaviorists talk? obviously not... I studied at the university of queensland and have completed the courses BIOL3207, ANIM3005 and ANIM1014. look it up =]

i have saved battery hens from a great program called homes for hens thats based where i live. Ive actually saved a few and many of my family friends have them and use the eggs. Look them up =]

i assume this because probably upwards of 95% of people shop from grocery stores. Your attitude towards me hasnt been positive so i assume you support these people =]

i do buy cruelty free products, none are animal tested and they are all vegan. I dont use medicines... if i had to then i would have to.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

I too will bow out as its getting too ridiculous, maybe when you have grown up a bit and seen a little life you will be less judgemental/arrogant.

I will end by saying personally I would rather spend time with meat eaters (who you state are all offensive) than rat gassing watchers.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> I too will bow out as its getting too ridiculous, maybe when you have grown up a bit and seen a little life you will be less judgemental/arrogant.
> 
> I will end by saying personally I would rather spend time with meat eaters (who you state are all offensive) than rat gassing watchers.


i would much rather spend time with other like minded people as well =]

which is why i organise for a vegetarian society. They accept my rat gassing!


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Just thought I'd mention how can you be vegan, yet still eat eggs?


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Just thought I'd mention how can you be vegan, yet still eat eggs?


im a vegan but occasionally eat eggs from chickens i saved from slaughter.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> im a vegan but occasionally eat eggs from chickens i saved from slaughter.


Then you aren't a vegan, vegans use NO animal products regardless of where they come from


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> *Then you aren't a vegan*, vegans use NO animal products regardless of where they come from


You have just taken the words right out of my mouth.

It's like me saying Im a veggie (I am a veggie btw) but stating I sometimes eat fish, which would mean I'm not a veggie.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

i really dont care anymore... i occasionally ( not even once a week ) eat an egg. From a chicken i saved from slaughter, i dont see a more humane way i could source eggs. 

i eat no cheese, no milk, no dairy.

its not the same as eating fish as i am not killing anything.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> im a vegan but occasionally eat eggs from chickens i saved from slaughter.


:lol::lol::lol: Lets hope you don't rescue a pig from slaughter then as you will have your excuse to eat a bacon butty won't you


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> its not the same as eating fish as i am not killing anything.


lots of true vegans would disagree.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> :lol::lol::lol: Lets hope you don't rescue a pig from slaughter then as you will have your excuse to eat a bacon butty won't you


well no because pigs dont produce bacon as a byproduct.

i just love it when you pick on my insignificant faults!

i act snobby because i am better then you. Hate to say it but its true 

i dont care what you think of me if im ' up myself ' or a ' typical vegan ' because i am comfortable knowing that i am not damaging the planet by eating these products and i am not contributing to cruelty. :nono:

If there were more people who lived the way i did the world would be an amazing place! unfortunately there is just a lack of strong willed and passionate people on this planet 

i dont care if you think the things ive done arent real. It just shows that i have done such amazing things that people cant actually believe that a person would have done them! big compliment, thanks 

@ diablo - you think eating an unfertilized egg is killing something? i think you need to go back to your science classes...


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

This is going round in circles, Jazzz you really sound to me as if it's your way or no way,other people are entitled to there opinions :crazy:


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> well no because pigs dont produce bacon as a byproduct.
> 
> i just love it when you pick on my insignificant faults!
> 
> ...


Nobody is better than anyone. We are all equals!


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> i act snobby because i am better then you. Hate to say it but its true


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Of course you are my dear


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

unfortunately in this world, we are not equals. Not in the way we contribute to the destruction of the planet or in our education =]


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> well no because pigs dont produce bacon as a byproduct.
> 
> i just love it when you pick on my insignificant faults!
> 
> ...


I was trying not to get involved in this debate, but your arrogance astounds me. You say you are BETTER than other people on this thread??!
So condoning gassing rats makes you better than a person who rescues rats??! 
Unbelievable.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

Lopside said:


> I was trying not to get involved in this debate, but your arrogance astounds me. You say you are BETTER than other people on this thread??!
> So condoning gassing rats makes you better than a person who rescues rats??!
> Unbelievable.


if you eat meat, yes =]


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> unfortunately in this world, we are not equals. Not in the way we contribute to the destruction of the planet or in our education =]


You know bugger all about anyone here, do you know what I do???


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Jugsmalone said:


> Nobody is better than anyone. We are all equals!


Obviously though pigs, cows, sheep & chickens are better than rats as apparently its ok to watch a rat being gassed for her hobby

No Jazzz I don't think of you as a typical vegan (your not a vegan full stop) nor even a typical vegitarian, the ones I know are quite normal people


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> Obviously though pigs, cows, sheep & chickens are better than rats as apparently its ok to watch a rat being gassed for her hobby
> 
> No Jazzz I don't think of you as a typical vegan (your not a vegan full stop) nor even a typical vegitarian, the ones I know are quite normal people


im a normal person =] just not when im ambushed by a mob of carnivores

@ b3rnie - of course i do! i read minds =O


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Just give up guys you are flogging a dead horse really not worth it


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

So you aren't technically _vegan_ at all, dress it up in as much self-congratulatory bull excrement justification as you like, but you still eat eggs so therefore you are a _vegetarian_, at least be honest about it


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## BullyMolly (Sep 26, 2011)

Oh sweet lord!!! So your better than me just because you don't eat meat!!! Get a frickin grip!!! I have spent most of my adult life caring for various members of my family because they couldn't look after themselves. More recent was my Mother in Law who couldn't clean her own bum, feed herself or even go to the toilet! Now its my own husband who is suffering with depression and arthritis among other ailments. Have you done this?? Most likely no, do i say I'm better than you because of it, no!!! Do my kids suffer as a result? maybe, but they still laugh everyday and are still fed and clean.
How dare you say you are better than me!!! Now you are offending me


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Obviously though pigs, cows, sheep & chickens are better than rats as apparently its ok to watch a rat being gassed for her hobby
> 
> No Jazzz I don't think of you as a typical vegan (your not a vegan full stop) *nor even a typical vegitarian, the ones I know are quite normal people*


I'm not normal, must be all the tofu I eat:crazy:


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> well no because pigs dont produce bacon as a byproduct.
> 
> i just love it when you pick on my insignificant faults!
> 
> ...


did i actually say that ?? no, i did not , i said `real` vegans would disagree , totally different debate.
i do know one thing , your actually no different from me , our sh1t stinks the same


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

BullyMolly said:


> Oh sweet lord!!! So your better than me just because you don't eat meat!!! Get a frickin grip!!! I have spent most of my adult life caring for various members of my family because they couldn't look after themselves. More recent was my Mother in Law who couldn't clean her own bum, feed herself or even go to the toilet! Now its my own husband who is suffering with depression and arthritis among other ailments. Have you done this?? Most likely no, do i say I'm better than you because of it, no!!! Do my kids suffer as a result? maybe, but they still laugh everyday and are still fed and clean.
> How dare you say you are better than me!!! Now you are offending me


im talking in the way you contribute to the destruction of the planet and the cruelty you inflict on animals. I really dont care what you do with your personal life, dont mean to sound insensitive but its true!


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> im a normal person =] just not when im ambushed by a mob of carnivores
> 
> @ b3rnie - of course i do! i read minds =O


My point exactly, you have no idea if you are better than me or not, get off your high horse love :crazy:


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> im talking in the way you contribute to the destruction of the planet and the cruelty you inflict on animals. I really dont care what you do with your personal life, dont mean to sound insensitive but its true!


LOL sure its fairly mutual that no one else on this thread gives a ff about either your personal life or your silly opinions. Think on - you are the only one directly involved in slaughtering rats for your enjoyment. Help the planet, turn your computer off


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## BullyMolly (Sep 26, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> I'm talking in the way you contribute to the destruction of the planet and the cruelty you inflict on animals. I really don't care what you do with your personal life, dont mean to sound insensitive but its true!


So now you make assumption yet again on the way i eat? I buy from my local butcher, buy line caught fish and organic dairy. I recycle, do not buy animal tested products either. You think you are soo above us all!!! 
No my personal life does not concern you, nor do my eating habits. My choice, my stomach. But to keep implying you are better than the rest of us is an absolute joke. Grow the hell up


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> im talking in the way you contribute to the destruction of the planet and the cruelty you inflict on animals. I really dont care what you do with your personal life, dont mean to sound insensitive but its true!


Thats uncalled for,on Pet Forum we do care about each other and YES!!it does sound insensitive


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## BullyMolly (Sep 26, 2011)

suewhite said:


> Thats uncalled for,on Pet Forum we do care about each other and YES!!it does sound insensitive


Thank you, But then she is better than us


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

the cows still produce methane, doesnt matter how 'organic' they are =] 

your kidding yourself if you think you arent directly involved in slaughter... your funny ^.^

and yet on this pet forum i seem to be one of the only to care for animals? weird! 

i did say i didnt mean to sound insensitive, but i dont care about personal lives


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> your kidding yourself if you think you arent directly involved in slaughter... your funny ^.^


never kid a kidder  i`ve nearly fell of my chair laughing with some of the stuff you keep banging on about


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> never kid a kidder  i`ve nearly fell of my chair laughing with some of the stuff you keep banging on about


haha diablo that's funny because I've been laughing about your incorrect and weird use of punctuation! 

Your inability to read and take in information... also hilarious!


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> the cows still produce methane, doesnt matter how 'organic' they are =]
> 
> your kidding yourself if you think you arent directly involved in slaughter... your funny ^.^
> 
> ...


LMFAO
How old are you???????? (you don't have to answer that, I can sit and assume just like you do with all of us )


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> the cows still produce methane, doesnt matter how 'organic' they are =]
> 
> your kidding yourself if you think you arent directly involved in slaughter... your funny ^.^
> 
> ...


I really do take exception to that. 

What brings you to that conclusion?


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> haha diablo that's funny because I've been laughing about your incorrect and weird use of punctuation!
> 
> Your inability to read and take in information... also hilarious!


oh dear , that`s not very nice now is ??? 
can`t see you lasting long here tbh


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## BullyMolly (Sep 26, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> the cows still produce methane, doesnt matter how 'organic' they are =]
> 
> your kidding yourself if you think you arent directly involved in slaughter... your funny ^.^
> 
> ...


OMG!!!!! Says the one who is vegan and eats eggs and gasses rats 
I never actually said that i wasnt involved! I said I do the best I can, I eat meat will not deny that, but for that reason alonedoes not make you better than me. It was once the natural order in the cycle of life. 
Also, I love my dogs, they are like my children to me. I do love most animals, not so keen on slugs. Your cats eat meat, but still you love then and dont judge them. So why judge us??? I just cant grasp how you really thik you are better???? 
I am really not botherd that you dont care about my personal life, I was simply trying to point out that we all do things that make us good people but dont feel that are better tham Mr Smith next door because of the good things we do.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

diablo said:


> oh dear , that`s not very nice now is ???
> *can`t see you lasting long here tbh:*eek:


Agree!!!!!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Oh good grief! It's actually entertaining reading this thread, I have NEVER before come across such arrogance! Lol! You guys are wasting your time. :crazy:
Maybe he/she should set up their own forum for those who are better than the rest of us and leave us to our non caring, planet destroying ways?


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> oh dear , that`s not very nice now is ???
> can`t see you lasting long here tbh


perfect example! thanks for that 

I'm not really sure i mind... I thought this was for animal lovers =/


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I think we should all give up now and go over to dog health and read how to feed pigs heads to dogs


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

suewhite said:


> I think we should all give up now and go over to dog health and read how to feed pigs heads to dogs


YOUR HILARIOUS 

god i wish there were more people with your amazing sense of humor over here...


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## Melissa27 (Mar 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> haha diablo that's funny because I've been laughing about your *incorrect and weird use of punctuation*!
> 
> Your inability to read and take in information... also hilarious!


....



Jazzz said:


> *the* cows still produce methane, *doesnt *matter how 'organic' they are =]
> 
> *your* kidding yourself if you think you *arent* directly involved in slaughter... *your* funny ^.^
> 
> ...


... Sorry. Former English major. I can't help myself. :blushing:


----------



## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

It made me laugh


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Melissa27 said:


> ....
> 
> ... Sorry. Former English major. I can't help myself. :blushing:


thanks for that , makes it even more hilarious


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

i just dont use punctuation =]

i dont use it incorrectly with these guys `````` <-


----------



## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Agree. The whole thing has got to the point of ridiculous now and I can't take it seriously. Entertaining though. Oh well, best go walk my dog


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> i just dont use punctuation =]
> 
> i dont use it incorrectly with these guys `````` <-


i'm sorry but lmfao!! was that any better for you


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> i just dont use punctuation =]
> 
> i dont use it incorrectly with these guys `````` <-


You know what I would love to live in a bubble as thick as yours, can you tell me where you can get them?
I'm fed up of being judged for eating a diet that we evolved to eat (hence the canines ) so I think having my own bubble might help


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> You know what I would love to live in a bubble as thick as yours, can you tell me where you can get them?
> I'm fed up of being judged for eating a diet that we evolved to eat (hence the canines ) so I think having my own bubble might help


Yeah! its called passion =]

we did not evolve to eat as much meat as we do. Unless your eating one palm sized portion your not eating what we evolved to eat either 

less is more when it comes to these things.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

BullyMolly said:


> OMG!!!!! Says the one who is vegan and eats eggs and gasses rats


:lol::lol: you forgot its ok to kill chickens to feed to the cats!

I had macaroni cheese last night so feel I deserve to live another day.


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Yeah! its called passion =]
> 
> we did not evolve to eat as much meat as we do. Unless your eating one palm sized portion your not eating what we evolved to eat either
> 
> less is more when it comes to these things.


Ohhhhhh so I have no passion now?

Ok peeps I am now going to take my uneducated, unpassionate arse off to go feed all my rescue animals


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

My thread was "Cant stop crying" this has got to the point now where "I cant stop laughing"


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Ohhhhhh so I have no passion now?
> 
> Ok peeps I am now going to take my uneducated, unpassionate arse off to go feed all my rescue animals


In Jazzz's warped world you would rescue rabbits so that you could gas them & feed to your dog


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Ohhhhhh so I have no passion now?
> 
> Ok peeps I am now going to take my uneducated, unpassionate arse off to go feed all my rescue animals


woah you rescue animals! Im a foster carer for a no-kill shelter 

haha i know it is funny what excuses carnivores will come up with to feel better about themselves! Never ceases to amaze me 

actually rabbits are illegal as pets and are hunted. Hopefully they will be extinct in Aus soon =]


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> woah you rescue animals! Im a foster carer for a no-kill shelter
> 
> haha i know it is funny what excuses carnivores will come up with to feel better about themselves! Never ceases to amaze me


is also very funny the excuses you come up with for gassing rats , which has been scientifically proved as far as i am aware to be inhumane


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> is also very funny the excuses you come up with for gassing rats , which has been scientifically proved as far as i am aware to be inhumane


actually its the complete opposite  i read up on the subject a lot before i chose to keep snakes. Gassing them is the most humane way!


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> actually its the complete opposite  i read up on the subject a lot before i chose to keep snakes. Gassing them is the most humane way!


The Rat Room » Blog Archive » Frozen Thawed


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> i do get annoyed when people say they cant afford it either... then dont eat it =/ my grocery bill is nearly half of my other carnivorous friends with fresh fruit and veg! Its very good for a person on a budget and for those watching their figure


Maybe you should start a thread discussing your diet. 
I'd be interested, and you may get a few people off meat


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

suewhite said:


> My thread was "Cant stop crying" this has got to the point now where "I cant stop laughing"


best way to be  I am laughing so hard right now :lol:



diablo said:


> is also very funny the excuses you come up with for gassing rats , which has been scientifically proved as far as i am aware to be inhumane


This is correct 

And to Jazzy yes I rescue, ALL of my animals come from a rescue or are rescued directly by myself. I also have a very good rapport with local rescues so that any terminal cases get sent to me to live out there days here.
Before assuming anything about people how about you actually ask questions or, I dunno have a read of some of the threads so you can get a grip on what we are all about.

Thanks for the laugh tho, you really should think about being a comedian


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> unfortunately in this world, we are not equals. Not in the way we contribute to the destruction of the planet or in our education =]


Or our life skills


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

oh come on guys, lets all calm down, its an emotive subject and im sure things are just being said in the heat of the moment


----------



## BullyMolly (Sep 26, 2011)

Big pat on the back 
I wonder how your house mates would feel if you came at them with all your drivel about being better than them, as you have stated they are "carnivores"?
However you choose to live, far from makes you better than the rest of us. Yes, we are a nation of animal lovers regardless of weather we eat meat or not!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> woah you rescue animals! *Im a foster carer for a no-kill shelter*


What's with all the attempts at one upmanship? Smacks of a petty character



> actually rabbits are illegal as pets and are hunted. *Hopefully they will be extinct in Aus soon* =]


Wow, for a self professed 'only person on the forum who cares about animals' you are remarkably uncaring. Hardly the rabbits' fault they were introduced to your country.


----------



## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> woah you rescue animals! Im a foster carer for a no-kill shelter
> 
> haha i know it is funny what excuses carnivores will come up with to feel better about themselves! Never ceases to amaze me
> 
> actually rabbits are illegal as pets and are hunted. Hopefully they will be extinct in Aus soon =]


Are you just a s**t stirrer trying to get everyone wound up? Knowing that most of us here have pet rabbits?

Honestly I can take nothing you say seriously now, and in my humble less better than you opinion, and it's only my opinion, you are appearing more ridiculous
with each thing you write. But seriously, I am intrigued, you HOPE rabbits will become extinct in your country? Hmmmm maybe you should humanely gass a few and feed them to your pet snakes, speed the extinction process along a bit?


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> What's with all the attempts at one upmanship? Smacks of a petty character
> 
> Wow, for a self professed 'only person on the forum who cares about animals' you are remarkably uncaring. Hardly the rabbits' fault they were introduced to your country.


if i were in jazzz position , i think i`d be more concerned about the devastating effect the cane toad was having on native wildlife rather than worrying about a few lovely rabbits


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Such a shame this thread is going to disappear. 
The likes and rep I've given have been well earned, I've had such a laugh :thumbup:


----------



## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

My fave responses have been from Diablo. No idea who Diablo is but you've made me laugh this morning!!


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

our main problems are rabbits, cane toads, foxes and feral cats.

Rabbits have caused hundreds of plant species to go extinct. I would love for them to be extinct in australia! They make lovely pets, just dont need them destroying the natural environment =] 

They can stay overseas where they dont do damage...

@ diablo - saying ' a few lovely rabbits' just shows you have no idea what your talking about.

people do actually regularly feed rabbits to larger snakes. I dont do it. Does that not happen over there??


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Lopside said:


> My fave responses have been from Diablo. No idea who Diablo is but you've made me laugh this morning!!


why thank you my dear


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Lopside said:


> My fave responses have been from Diablo. No idea who Diablo is but you've made me laugh this morning!!


Don't forget Jazzz as well:thumbup:


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Please don't close this till I finish...right back to page 15 I go...its so much fun :lol:


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> our main problems are rabbits, cane toads, foxes and feral cats.
> 
> Rabbits have caused hundreds of plant species to go extinct. I would love for them to be extinct in australia! They make lovely pets, just dont need them destroying the natural environment =]
> 
> They can stay overseas where they dont do damage...


real little wildlife warrior aren`t you ? 
i`d never wish extinction on any species.


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> real little wildlife warrior aren`t you ?
> i`d never wish extinction on any species.


thats what happens when you study environmental science!

i just want them to be eradicated in australia, not become extinct as a species.

same with foxes and especially cane toads! Feral cats also need to be controlled.

for the record i only knew that a couple of you had rabbits from your signatures... we obviously dont have them as pets here.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Sooo we have a an animal lover who claims to be a vegan but eats eggs, gases rats to feed to snakes and wants rabbits extinct - I do so admire people who stick to their principles!

I wonder Jazzz, how you would categorise people that only eat rabbit meat?


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

but you said


Jazzz said:


> actually rabbits are illegal as pets and are hunted. *Hopefully they will be extinct in Aus soon *=]


how can you profess to be an animal lover then come out with comments like that ?


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> thats what happens when you study environmental science!
> 
> i just want them to be eradicated in australia, not become extinct as a species.
> 
> ...


Actually many people in OZ do keep pet rabbits, they aren't banned in every state


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

thats actually really interesting!

i would condone and support that in australia as long as the killing was done humanely and the rabbits were hunted not farmed.

they are causing ridiculous amounts of environmental damage... theres just no way you can love them as pests

as pets they are adorable! We just cant have them in australia, they do way too much damage.

i wish they were illegal in every state =[ i think they are legal in 2?


----------



## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> thats what happens when you study environmental science!
> 
> i just want them to be eradicated in australia, not become extinct as a species.
> 
> ...


Erm you didn't say hopefully eradicate. You said hopefully extinct. 
And correction, I know of people who have pet rabbits in Australia.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> thats what happens when you study environmental science!
> 
> i just want them to be eradicated in australia, not become extinct as a species.
> 
> ...


Really?

Dwarf Lops, Mini Lops, Netherland Dwarfs, Rex rabbits, Plush Lops in Australia - Pets, Bunnies for sale

Rabbits for Sale Australia

rabbits for sale in Sydney Region, NSW | Free Local Classifieds Gumtree Australia


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

rona said:


> Really?
> 
> Dwarf Lops, Mini Lops, Netherland Dwarfs, Rex rabbits, Plush Lops in Australia - Pets, Bunnies for sale
> 
> ...


Cant pull one over on detective Rona


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

by 'here' i meant anywhere i have ever lived in my life.

they are not legal in my state. Which is bigger then the whole UK... 

extinct in one country, not extinct in the world as a species. As i specified. Eradication and extinction means the same thing in these circumstances as i specified australia. 

Other states should not be aloud to have them as pets. i do not agree with this. It is impossible to eradicate a species while there is still a captive population.


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Other states should not be aloud to have them as pets. i do not agree with this. It is impossible to eradicate a species while there is still a captive population.


same thing could be said about snakes things happening over here right now which could effect the whole reptile industry worldwide , not doing anyone any favours are you ?


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

ohh Waterlily lives in Perth and has two rabbits.


but i know she said hamsters are banned there.


But im with Jazz 100% on eradicating rabbits from the wild in Australia, they, like the fox and cane toad, have been an ecological disaster.


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> same thing could be said about snakes


im confused... why am i trying to eradicate native species of snakes??


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

suewhite said:


> Cant pull one over on detective Rona


They aren't allowed in Queensland which is where Jazzz comes from, huge fines for keeping one

Rabbits | Primary industries & fisheries | Queensland Government


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

only $30k 

@ diablo - you keep talking about this 'secret' thing that is happening in the UK... are you going to say what it is or do you like being mysterious?


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

diablo said:


> but you said
> 
> how can you profess to be an animal lover then come out with comments like that ?


im an animal lover and i would love to see them extinct from Australias fragile eco-system im afraid.


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> im confused... why am i trying to eradicate native species of snakes??


i never said you were.
what i am saying is there have been happenings over here regarding the EU and the keeping of reptiles , if all this goes through , many reptile owners over here could face having to have their reptiles pts! if it goes through , it may not only effect the EU it could have complications worldwide , do you not see that ?


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> im an animal lover and i would love to see them extinct from Australias fragile eco-system im afraid.


exactly =] i love them as pets, although ive never had one, they are very cute!

its the same as feral cats. i love my cats but the populations just need to be controlled...

@ diablo - why are their reps being pts? our licensing system is completely removed from the rest of the world... but enlighten me anyway =]


----------



## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

Jazzz said:


> i hope all of you feeling sympathetic are vegetarians? this is the reality.
> 
> how do you think they get milk? the mother cows have to give birth to a calf. The females are kept to continue this cruel birthing process and the males are sent to slaughter that day if theyre lucky. If they arent they are kept for a few months fed a low protein diet so they cant walk and this is where your veal comes from.
> 
> the mother cows call and look for their calves for days and weeks after they are taken from them. It is absolutely disgusting and this is why i choose to be vegan.


But because of how they're bred -- if they don't get milked, or have calves -- they get mastitis and could potentially die. With college -- we went to a farm and saw all the animals (including birds that had been shot, so it's not like they were hiding anything) -- the veal calfs were housed in a well-lit barn with other calves -- all very healthy and happy. We talked to the farmer and he was very sympathetic towards the animals -- and it actually shocked me, as I had grown up hating farmers, not understanding how they could do that to the animals. I don't like the fact they go to slaughter -- which is why I'm vegetarian -- but they're not cruelly treated on the farms at all. And the farmers aren't heartless-- and care loads about their animals.

EDIT: I'd also cry too seeing that little calf xxx


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

xXhayleyroxX said:


> But because of how they're bred -- if they don't get milked, or have calves -- they get mastitis and could potentially die. With college -- we went to a farm and saw all the animals (including birds that had been shot, so it's not like they were hiding anything) -- the veal calfs were housed in a well-lit barn with other calves -- all very healthy and happy. We talked to the farmer and he was very sympathetic towards the animals -- and it actually shocked me, as I had grown up hating farmers, not understanding how they could do that to the animals. I don't like the fact they go to slaughter -- which is why I'm vegetarian -- but they're not cruelly treated on the farms at all. And the farmers aren't heartless-- and care loads about their animals.
> 
> EDIT: I'd also cry too seeing that little calf xxx


Half the time it's the suits in power that push the farmers into giving the animals less than ideal conditions.

Most of the time it's the government, supermarkets and bussiness men at the heart of the problem.

You still can't really have ethical milk


----------



## xXhayleyroxX (Apr 18, 2008)

rona said:


> Half the time it's the suits in power that push the farmers into giving the animals less than ideal conditions.
> 
> Most of the time it's the government, supermarkets and bussiness men at the heart of the problem.
> 
> You still can't really have ethical milk


Yeah definately -- most of the farmers I've talked to despise supermarkets, because they don't get very much money for prime meat -- so the animals are sold for a lesser value -- so more carcasses are needed to make a good profit. The production systems are very short too and the DEFRA guidelines are quite small, in my opinion.


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> @ diablo - why are their reps being pts? our licensing system is completely removed from the rest of the world... but enlighten me anyway =]


Federation of British Herpetologists -

if all that goes through , many reptile keepers could potentially have to face the possibility , they may have to have their pets pts.


----------



## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

My o My I am closing this....Why we need to go from opinions to insults is beyond me....When I have a spare hour or so I will try going through it and delete un necessary comments. If it still make sense it will get reopened...Hugs to the OP whose intentions were not to cause friction like this....Jill


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

She's been having a laugh too and it's settled down now


----------



## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Okay will leave it open for now Rona....hopefully it now stays on track....


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Think on - you are the only one directly involved in slaughtering rats for your enjoyment.


That's not strictly true


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

hawksport said:


> That's not strictly true


lol probably not but possibly correct if added "involved on the thread at the time". I was just being sarcy anyway


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> Federation of British Herpetologists -
> 
> if all that goes through , many reptile keepers could potentially have to face the possibility , they may have to have their pets pts.


its horrible that they may have to have their animals pts but im not 100% against it...

it doesnt effect australia as all the species we keep are licensed and native =] just the way this little environmentalist likes it!

the dairy industry is unfortunately, at its core a cruel industry. Which is sad because i love cheese <3 i just love baby cows more =/


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> its horrible that they may have to have their animals pts but im not 100% against it...
> 
> it doesnt effect australia as all the species we keep are licensed and native =] just the way this little environmentalist likes it!
> 
> the dairy industry is unfortunately, at its core a cruel industry. Which is sad because i love cheese <3 i just love baby cows more =/


it may not affect you now , it still could possibly , never say never. i hear black market reptile trade is pretty rife in australia,,,


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

diablo said:


> it may not affect you now , it still could possibly , never say never. i hear black market reptile trade is pretty rife in australia,,,


i hope all the exotics get pts in australia. Our climate is way too perfect for reptiles!

even though it isnt the poor reptiles fault they really cant be in this country =/

i would never get any and support that so i think im pretty safe


----------



## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Havent read all posts yet, but can see its got a bit lively.

But in response to Sue's original post, i know where your coming from.

We have an Asda near, well bout 8/10 miles away and there is an abbatoir (sp) further away from it and you often see the big carrier lorries, always makes me  as you know whats there at the end of journey.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

The area I live in is known as feed lot alley, although some are free range I don't like the idea of feed lots. The Buffalo farm is free range they are magnificent animals....I live in a large agricultural and ranching Province and have come to accept some things that others may not, the animals are well taken care of and all premises are inspected regularly...


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> The area I live in is known as *feed lot* alley, although some are free range I don't like the idea of feed lots. The Buffalo farm is free range they are magnificent animals....I live in a large agricultural and ranching Province and have come to accept some things that others may not, the animals are well taken care of and all premises are inspected regularly...


Sorry to sound thick but what's a feed lot?


----------



## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Sorry to say but its were animals are raised for the food industry....not free range I'll see if I can find a picture but its not my preferred method of cattle raising..Much prefer the small operations where they are free range...


----------



## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Feedlot | Define Feedlot at Dictionary.com


----------



## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

These are free range Buffalo with new Calves taken as I drove down the highway...Hope you can see the young ones....I bought a dog from them years ago a australian cross german shepherd she was a fantastic dog died of Bladder cancer at 9 or 10 years old...


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> These are free range Buffalo with new Calves taken as I drove down the highway...Hope you can see the young ones....I bought a dog from them years ago a australian cross german shepherd she was a fantastic dog died of Bladder cancer at 9 or 10 years old...


Wow they look magnificent, their babies are so sweet!


----------



## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Gotta say, just read thread from start to finish,

Can i just say thanks to all, its passed the last half hour in work


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Melissa27 said:


> ....
> 
> ... Sorry. Former English major. I can't help myself. :blushing:


You beat me to it!



Jazzz said:


> @ neash98 - so? the species would still be kept alive like any domestic animal through pets. I think they have a much greater purpose then rats... Actually these rats are lab rats, not *bred (not bread that i eat)* to be pets at all.


from the person who doesn't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're' *


Jazzz said:


> haha diablo that's funny because *I've been laughing about your incorrect and weird use of punctuation!*
> 
> Your inability to read and take in information... also hilarious!





Jazzz said:


> *YOUR* HILARIOUS
> 
> god i wish there were more people with your amazing sense of humor over here...





Jazzz said:


> i just dont use punctuation =]
> 
> i dont use it incorrectly with these guys `````` <-


^^ so, apart from the fact, how did you pass any of your modules...



B3rnie said:


> Actually many people in OZ do keep pet rabbits, they aren't banned in every state


i thought i was going mad there. Thanks for that 


Jazzz said:


> by 'here' i meant anywhere i have ever lived in my life.
> 
> they are not legal in my state. *Which is bigger then the whole UK.*..


needs to be to accommodate your inflated ego.



Jazzz said:


> its horrible that they may have to have their animals pts but im not 100% against it...
> 
> it doesnt *effect* australia as all the species we keep are licensed and native =] just the way this little environmentalist likes it!
> 
> the dairy industry is unfortunately, at its core a cruel industry. Which is sad because i love cheese <3 i just love baby cows more =/


*or affect and effect, apparently.


----------



## Guest (Jun 16, 2012)

Can't believe what happened to this thread, while I was off.

I've read so much that I don't think I can remember all the threads points that I wanted to add to...

Way back, someone mentioned pigs being pack animals and poor pets. They are often magnificent pets. Ask George Clooney, whose pig slept in his bedroom, and I think I read that him letting the pig on his bed, was why Renee Zellwinger broke up with him! There was a famous pig in gundog circles in the 50's? 60's? 70's? in England, who was working as a fully functioning gundog, on an estate, that was still being written about in Country Life, in the 80s. They are magnificent pets, if given as much good behaviour work, as we do with dogs. Very sociable, very intelligent, easy to houstrain and HUGE personalities. I've known many pet pigs and LONGED for one, but I can't get one now, as I won't outlive it.

Not being from Qld, we do have pet rabblts allowed and many have to have mosquito proof cages, or live with the risk of callisi or myxo, virus (forgive the spelling, if wrong). I am fond of rabbits, and have never killed anything knowingly, and altho' I would probably have nightmares and deep horror about it, for the rest of my life, if I was put in the situation where I could prevent rabbits from settling in Oz, if I personally killed 20 rabbits, I would do it, weeping uncontrollably, and feeling forever, the guilt of a serial killer.

Same for cane toads, etc. If you could grasp the damage, the extinctions and near extinctions they caused, in the native populations here... Tho' I must admit, I would prefer to be able to magic the sterilisation of the humans involved, parents, at an early age, so they were never born, to have such a stupid idea. Plus bloody Indian Mynah birds.

We have many people on this forum who sacrifice a lot, for their animals, for animals in general, for family and for other humans in general, and many of us can hold up our heads and say we pull more than our weight in compassion. That is the upsetting part of this. The people who are attacking each other are the most tender hearted, to even respond to this thread. Unless some suspected it would degenerate and become shrill and accusitory, and refused to opt in.

I know that vegans are strictly no animal substance, but if the hens Jazz gets her eggs from have no rooster, then those eggs are going to be laid, with no chance of life. The raw material of egg will not be misused, if she tries to get a little extra, easy protein, into her vegan diet. If you asked the hens, who gained a free range, gentle life, they would not mind a whit. They will lay them, anyway, and to throw them in the compost, on principle, is insane, and I think, immoral.

I do think Jazz got turned on and feel sad that she couldn't have got some dispassionate back up for some of her statements, early on. Then both parties would not have got hysterical and starting flinging statements that they all probably would rather have left unsaid.

As far as gassing being inhumane... if an animal has to die, and death can be humane, the problem here, is everyone jumped on Jazz, saying a gassing is far from humane. Jazz was referring to a particular gas. The gasses used, the nasty cheap gases they use to kill dogs in some PTS dog kennels in America, ARE cruel and vile. One of my particular interests, is WW2 bomber air crew who died, but the whole subject is of interest. In the huge conflagrations in Dresden, etc. many Germans in bunkers were found dead, although there was no heat, no flame and no smoke... Purely because the oxygen in the air was burnt, The gases that were left did kill these old men, women and children, BUT there was no sign of suffering. When the people were reached, there was an orderly group of people, waiting for the bombing to end. All dead. Quite spooky for people. Women still knitting, still catching a little catnap, Truly, our species, clearly no sign of any suffering. If there was any moment of realisation, there would have been a mad scramble of panic, mothers would have been comforting their babies and toddlers. It was like still life painting come to life, in the tragic death of these people. And if anyone wants to scream about the Jews knowing and reacting.., To be sure, they did. What was done to them, was truly the definition of evil, but the Germans used saron and other gases, I believe. They had no interest in any form of humane killing. Cheap and fast and as close to guaranteed 100% was the criteria. 

And I am not about to try to be the condescending voice of reason. I have written a bollocking to Smokey Bear or Bacon or whatever he, (I suspect), calls him?self, on a different subject and don't resile from it, one iota.


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## Jazzz (Jun 12, 2012)

househens said:


> Can't believe what happened to this thread, while I was off.
> 
> I've read so much that I don't think I can remember all the threads points that I wanted to add to...
> 
> ...


i like this post very much =] thank you


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2012)

househens said:


> I do think Jazz got turned on and feel sad that she couldn't have got some dispassionate back up for some of her statements, early on. Then both parties would not have got hysterical and starting flinging statements that they all probably would rather have left unsaid.


I only want to address this post, Jazz was only "turned on" as you say because if you didn't agree with the same opinion you were uneducated, uncaring and unpassionate. I'm sorry but no one is going to take anyone seriously when they fling words like that about without actually knowing the individuals that it is directed too


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I think there has been enough said on this. 
As with all contentious issues if the arguments just come down to accusations of ignorance from either side then the debate is lost.


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