# Got bit by a horse and its itchy?



## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Hiya, not sure where to post this lol.

I am looking after 3 mini horses - 2 females and a stallion. 
Well on Tuesday(the first day there) the stallion bit my arm, and has left a bruise. It was just a normal, hurts when you touch it bruise for the first couple of days but over the last couple, it feels like there is a grain of rice under the skin(within the bruise) when I run my fingers over it and it is really really itchy all of the time? 

Anybody know why this could be?
I will admit I've never been bit by a horse before lol.

And any tips of how to deal with a fiesty, kicky, bitey stallion? 

*Heidi*


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

I would suggest getting it checked out by a doctor. I'm no expert on wounds or bruising, but that doesn't sound normal... And we have a few horses that bite at work, granted they only nip, but it still hurts! But i normally just get a bruise for about a week or two.

Is this stallion kept around or with the mares? He may have felt he needed to protect them... Which is the main reason stallions shouldn't really be kept with mares and kept alone. 
But if he's being strong and nasty to you, you need to be more dominant with him and show him you aren't a threat and that you are higher up than him really. Keep an eye on his body language, as most horses will warn you before they attack you, if his ears are back and he has that 'disgusted' and not so happy pony face, then be warned he's not happy with something. Talk to him and keep yourself calm around him, as nerves can set them off too, especially if you're nervous or scared of him. Talking, as much as it may not help him. Will help you! And try to avoid the hind legs if possible. 

Is he just generally a difficult pony? What sort of problems does he have or issues? And is he like that with his owner?


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks Rach.

Ok, thanks, now I know its not normal I think I might pop to the docs on Monday if its still itching, its not very big but very annoying!

He is kept a field apart from the mares (who are actually related) so there is 2 lots of electric fences between them.
He is very difficult with me, he will stand so that he will be over me if I crouch to poo pick the field, making himself big and just sort of staring at me. I don't trust him enough to crouch when he is like this tbh. He trys to nip if I go to put a lead rope on him and then once the lead rope is on and the electric fence is opened up, he takes off so I can't hold it (doesnt matter as all enclosed but then I have to go and get him from where ever he runs to) and he charges out of his stable when you open it up. He bucks and flicks his back legs in the air pretty much all the time! His owner allows it all, she actually slaps his bum and says "go on", she finds it cute I think but I find it intimidating!

I have owned a horse and looked after countless others, all bigger than him but I have never been "worried" about one until now.

I've tried making myself more "dominant" and giving him a push away if he gets too close with his "nippy actions" or to stand above me(when crouching) but he just turns and comes back. I've tried being his best friend and giving him hay to eat while I do the field and carrots and apples, but he is just the same, and infact is ignoring the hay because intimidating me is more fun!


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

Hmm, sounds like he's learnt he is able to do this... Especially if his owner is letting him do it...

From personal experience, i know there's nothing you can do to stop a horse from tanking off from you. :\ We have a horse at work which tanks, and he has a normal length leadrope, and i've ended up having to swap it to a longer rope, so i can wrap it round his nose to apply pressure and give me more control, and he still went off... That day i lost him a grand total of 4 times in the space of about 8-10 minutes... I was only trying to take him to the field >.<

With some of the more bossy horses at work, i've learnt that stamping my feet at them, screaming at them or pinching or prodding them (acting as if another horse biting them), much like another horse would do. I very much believe in Monty Roberts methods and have found they work rather well. Trying to speak the horse's language will help him understand you and his rank in this relationship a lot better. 
Monty Roberts Join Up, Man Who Listens to Horses, Real Horse Whisperer, Books, Biography, Train, Demonstrations, Flag is Up | Monty Roberts

How old is he if you don't mind me asking? Because if he started this at a young age and was encouraged, it may just be his way of playing. Stallions are naturally quite rough anyway, but that can be sorted with proper and stern handling.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

hazyreality said:


> Thanks Rach.
> 
> Ok, thanks, now I know its not normal I think I might pop to the docs on Monday if its still itching, its not very big but very annoying!
> 
> ...


Be careful...I used to have to handle a full-size one like that and I'm only 5'...in the end I put a Chifney on him and he stopped dragging me around after that. It can be really dangerous, especially in the winter if you get mud and ice and start to go arse over tip and he walks on you. And speak to the owner about her encouraging this behaviour, especially since other people have to handle him. Also get the doc or nurse to look at your arm. If he bites you again (the horse not the doctor) give him a REALLY sharp smack so he understands you are angry. Don't offer him apples as that will look like he is being rewarded for being a thug!!


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Calvine said:


> Be careful...I used to have to handle a full-size one like that and I'm only 5'...in the end I put a Chifney on him and he stopped dragging me around after that. It can be really dangerous, especially in the winter if you get mud and ice and start to go arse over tip and he walks on you. And speak to the owner about her encouraging this behaviour, especially since other people have to handle him. Also get the doc or nurse to look at your arm. If he bites you again (the horse not the doctor) give him a REALLY sharp smack so he understands you are angry. Don't offer him apples as that will look like he is being rewarded for being a thug!!


I dont offer him apples after he has bit me or pushed me around lol, he actually has them first then is a thug! 
I only have him until beginning of october so I am just dealing with him while I have him, I know I'm not changing him in 2 weeks!

I think he quite young, I would need to look at his details to know for sure.
The owner is not the sort of person who will listen to me tbh and as I say I only have to put up with the behaviour for 2 weeks while she is away.

I think he is getting better each day, he isnt quite so pushy, and I've found herding him is actually the best way of getting him where I need him to go lol
And he hasn't bit me since the first day, but I get the feeling that given the chance he would lol. The problem with giving him a smack is that then he bucks and rears if you try and "disipline" him.

Ah well, I will just be careful. Will get the itchy bruise checked on Tuesday if it is still itchy as I'm way too busy on Monday


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

Join that club Calvine, i'm only 5ft aswell, and i have to handle big horses at work, there are no stallions, but when a 17.2hh idiot of a horse decides it's more fun to bronc the entire way to the field, and you have another reasonably big horse on the other hand, it's not a fun moment >.<
But usually a good sharp smack or jab tells them off well enough. I know it sounds harsh, but they're big animals, and can do 10 times worse if they wanted.


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

RachJeremy said:


> Join that club Calvine, i'm only 5ft aswell, and i have to handle big horses at work, there are no stallions, but when a 17.2hh idiot of a horse decides it's more fun to bronc the entire way to the field, and you have another reasonably big horse on the other hand, it's not a fun moment >.<
> But usually a good sharp smack or jab tells them off well enough. I know it sounds harsh, but they're big animals, and can do 10 times worse if they wanted.


Ah well, I'm 5' 8" so I have a bit of an advantage over you guys


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

Lucky you! I'd give anything to be taller  But then again, it does mean i can ride smaller and fun ponies sometimes  But sometimes it's not so fun being short. Especially when the bigger horse's at work are perfectly capable of picking you up off the floor XD


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Hmm, found this and it says bruises can be itchy? Think its american by the terms they use but all bruises are the same lol



> Lump formed after bruising or swelling after injury is common due to extravastion of blood and plasma in the surrounding tissue leading to formation of a hematoma. It is normal to experience some redness, swelling, itching, minor skin irritation or oozing of tissue fluid, or small lumps in the skin near the bruise.At first, the skin over the bruise will feel thick and hard and will be blackish in color . After a period of two to six months, the swelling and irritation will go down and the scar tissue will soften and begin to blend into the surrounding tissue and the color will change from black to green to yellowish and then normal skin color.
> 
> But if there is any redness, severe pain in the wound, fever or drainage of any serous or watery discharge or any pus from the wound then infection should be suspected.
> 
> When ever you hurt yourself,just apply firstly cold compresses and then warm compresses after 24 hrs on the lump formed.Taking over the counter anti inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen or acetaminophen will also help in reduction of swelling.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

> he charges out of his stable when you open it up. He bucks and flicks his back legs in the air pretty much all the time! His owner allows it all, she actually slaps his bum and says "go on", she finds it cute


I daresay the horse doesn't find it cute at all. Having his backside slapped when he comes out of the stable, he's probably charging and kicking out trying to avoid the slap.

Honestly, why on earth don't people just train their horses. All this yelling and slapping and smacking. Horses need training, just like dogs do, they don't automatically know how to lead etc. They need to be taught, then their lessons need reinforcing and proofing in different areas and with different distractions. Using a chifney or a stud chain or any of the various fixes is just like putting a choke chain or a prong collar on a dog, quick, painful fix for a problem, instead of time and training. 

I don't have any advice as you're looking after someone else's untrained horses for a couple of weeks and it does sound as though the owner isn't bothered and has caused many if not all of the problems you're having and it will continue anyway once you've gone. 

Hope your bruise is healed soon and you cope with them well until the owner returns.


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## Baileys Blind (Jan 23, 2012)

I have a 2 1/2yr old colt who gets quite bolshy, I've found just staying really calm and moving slowly and purposefully keeps him calm, the moment he has any stimulation his manners go out the window and he turns all stalliony :scared:

I tried giving him a slap for nipping but all that achieved was making him hand shy! Instead, try when he comes up at you and he starts with his lips put your hands around his mouth/nose and rub and squish really press in and move his lips about, get your fingers in the corners of his mouth and open it, being extremely careful obviously  He hates it and will move away from me. I don't feed anything from my hand, just drop it on the floor near him. 

I got OH a stick and taped some material at the end of it so it's not pointy or sharp and he uses that as an extension of his arm for moving him away, never for hitting just to help keep the distance.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

Sounds like this woman should not own horses and has let him get away with murder because of his size!! A stallion should behave no differently from any other horse and should be treated like any horse - they do not nip/bite/barge any more than any other horse unless they have been handled by people who should not be handling them and have taught them to!! 
Also keeping a stallion on its own is cruel and half the reason why most will behave oddly and in a frustrated manner - they are herd animals and should be kept as such! If a colt/stallion is a pain and is too much to handle then it needs it's nuts off as it is not suitable to breed from - temerament is a huge part of a stallion that even if the animal is perfect in every other way if the temperament isn't there then it needs gelding, there are so many stunning well behaved stallions around there is no reason to keep an unruly one entire - why this lady is keeping a horse entire when she can't handle it I do wonder - money perhaps!!!?
Please don't use Monty Roberts methods on horses that behave in a dominant fashion - you will get hurt and do far more damage than good - his methods are fine if you want to bully a horse into submission and you have a horse that is naturally submissive - most horses will not submit and the join up rubbish just makes them confused and makes their behaviour worse!!

As you only have this poor horse in your care for a few weeks I would suggest not trying anything as the owner is obviously not going to keep it up so I would just avoid getting yourself kicked, do not bend over in the field and just be sensible around him, use a plastic bag if he gets too close to scare him off, he is obviously bored and frustrated and needs a buddy to play with - maybe try a jolly ball or something to give him something to do and kick the hell out of! My entires always spent ages playing with each other in the field burning off excess energy in their bachelor herds, and as a result were always easy to handle and grew up with manners from day one, those that run with mares were too busy covering/grooming and just socialising and were never protective towards people over mares - it would be far to dangerous to keep a stallion that was!

Baileysblind - why would you use sticking your hand in a horses mouth to try and control him?? - what are you going to do when it comes to bitting him and he hates his mouth touched??!! Is he out with others? and are you intending to breed from him otherwise geld him and you'll find he should calm down a bit - the longer you leave them entire the more interested they will usually be towards mares - not always but some do retain stallion characteristics for life, if you want him to back up use your body to block him and walk purposley towards him giving the command to back up, reward with a good scratch when he does, you should once he gets the message just back up then on command without the bluster. 
Also keep sessions short - no more than 5 - 10mins tops at this age - several short sessions are far better than one long one where you end up fighting with them. My stally backs up on command even with a mare in season in front of him with just a headcollar on him I don't even need to use pressure - that is the sort of behavior you want from colts/stallions, otherwise it's not fun to have them around and it can be dangerous, always wear protective gear as it's better to be safe than sorry with them.


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

AlexArt, i respect you're entitled to opinions of your own. But Monty Roberts techniques are not bullying. If anything it's the most natural thing out there for horses that have problems. Speaking to horses as if you were another horse. No offence, but Monty has been around this earth a long time and spent a lifetime studying horses and working with them with his methods and may i add *never* failed to help a 'problem' horse, no matter what the situation. This man has changed many people's lives, i've seen him personally, and i find what you've said offensive. But each to their own.

And i believe what BaileysBlind is doing, is desensitization, which is something you should do with youngstock... And i know older horses who aren't keen on taking a bit or allowing you near their mouths because they haven't had proper handling as foals. 


But i do see the point of the fact this woman who owns this stallion the topic is about is a bit foolish for allowing him to get away with this for so long. And question why she's keeping him un-gelded. But it was a tiny bit rude of you to say she shouldn't own horses at all! For all you know, he's kept entire because he's a stud, you do not know the full story, nor do you need to. 
And i had a friend who had two stallions, a shetland and a cob. They weren't for breeding, they were kept entire because she wanted them entire. That's not a crime! 

And to be honest, if this woman wants her stallion to be feisty and like this, then why should we stop her? It's not up to us, unless she's causing physical harm to them horses and becoming dangerous to herself, others or the horses, then there is nothing wrong with that at all.
Heck, my boss likes his 'main horse' because he's arrogant and bites people! 

Everyone is different.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

> And i believe what BaileysBlind is doing, is desensitization


If the intention is for the horse to move away and not enjoy having his mouth handled in this way, it's not desensitising. The idea being that he avoids bringing his head and mouth close as he wants to avoid the rubbing and pulling on his lips and mouth. 

If it was desensitising, it would be to make him less sensitive and more accepting about having his mouth handled, but the handler in this instance wants the horse to avoid it.

I think it's a John Lyons technique, though I could be wrong.

The woman with the stallion has a responsibility to train her stallion to be safe, if she wants other people to handle him. She has taught him/created the behaviour he is displaying, so I agree with Alexart. Keep as safe as you can, but trying to retrain him is pointless when his owner thinks it's fun.

If some guy also thinks it's fun for his stallion to bite, then that would compare to owning a status dog to frighten people, it's not acceptable in dogs, it's not acceptable in horses either. He should ensure that no people go near his horses. 

The horse isn't being arrogant, it's learned behaviour. If he's been bopped for it, he's probably anticipating it and biting to protect himself. If he hasn't, it's probably behaviour he learned as a young colt, when they practice mouthing and biting, natural behaviour in young male horses, and wasn't addressed then or since. Unless you meant your boss is arrogant, in which case I'd agree it sounds like it.


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

Elles said:


> If some guy also thinks it's fun for his stallion to bite, then that would compare to owning a status dog to frighten people, it's not acceptable in dogs, it's not acceptable in horses either. He should ensure that no people go near his horses.
> 
> The horse isn't being arrogant, it's learned behaviour. If he's been bopped for it, he's probably anticipating it and biting to protect himself. If he hasn't, it's probably behaviour he learned as a young colt, when they practice mouthing and biting, natural behaviour in young male horses, and wasn't addressed then or since. Unless you meant your boss is arrogant, in which case I'd agree it sounds like it.


This horse is a gelding, which makes his bulshiness worse. And he's an older horse now. Yesterday i walked to his stable door and poked my head round his door to check how much water he had and he nipped my sleeve. Obviously, i don't let him get away with that, but my co-worker will wimp away from him and avoid contact with him. Which i think doesn't help XD
My boss has spoken about it being part of the horse's 'training', the fact it was so intense, the horse lashes out at people. Don't know what to believe as it's strange, and surely even if he was highly trained, surely the bad manners could have been avoided. 
But the arrogant-ness i was talking about my boss! Haha. There's a reason i'm job-hunting 

And on some extent i do agree with AlexArt, but i also feel everyone brings up and has different animals.
For example, my boss' partner, has Labs. He allows them to jump up and people and sniff at their food. If my dogs done that they'd get told off. Obviously that's just an example. But if this woman wants her shetland stallion to behave this way, it's her choice, and it doesn't mean she shouldn't own horses. She should just maybe warn people before leaving them in their care, and make sure they're ok with it all.


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## Baileys Blind (Jan 23, 2012)

My horse is booked in for gelding on Friday :thumbup: I was just waiting for the weather to cool and the flies to lessen before I got him 'done' once he's recovered I'll be looking for another horse as a rider for me and a friend for him, he's been kept on his own for a while (before me) so he needs a friend ASAP to teach him some horse etiquette.


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't plan on "retraining" him, I just wanted a way of stopping him biting and rearing at me lol so I don't get hurt. He is actually behaving much better now, the herding him to the stable/field rather than leading him has worked much better  He is being alot less bolshy with me 

She is a good owner of the horses, they are well treated, she just finds - IMO - the wrong things cute. She doesnt slap his bum when he comes out of the stable, he comes up to her in the field all fiesty and she slaps his bum then to make him more so I assume - its like they are playing - but to me quite dangerously.

I think she plans to stud him, and thats why he is entire, but I don't know and don't need to know peoples reasons, I just have to get on with my job and keep my judgments to myself.


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