# Crumbly almost white poo?



## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

Dylan was desperate to get out this morning so obviously was desperate for a poo. I have just checked in the garden and his poo is hard and really pale. When I broke it up with a scoop it crumbled, almost like powder. Is this something to worry about?

He is on natural instinct and natures menu raw and these are the only foods that don't give him diareaoh. He doesn't drink any water but I add LOADS of water to his food and he has all of it. I try to give him sardines once a week but he has gone off them. I also give him chunks of chicken breast every few days.

He didn't eat very much yesterday, he seems to only like the venison and game bird and I had put down the natures menu chicken and rabbit for one meal. I guess he could be dehydrated because he missed one meal and missed the fluids.


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

Wonder if there is more bone than usual in your latest batch of food? Did it look normal? The food I mean, not the poo.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Wonder if there is more bone than usual in your latest batch of food?


Exactly my first thought. Calcium rich


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I know hyenas have dryish white poos from the bones they chew, if that helps.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

I would ring the vet up and ask them.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

It's fairly normal and if he does out and eats mice as well then that will add to the bone. As long as he isn't struggling to pass it it's fine.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Buttons1 said:


> his poo is hard and really pale. When I broke it up with a scoop it crumbled, almost like powder. Is this something to worry about?


I had this with a litter of kittens earlier in the year who were eating, almost exclusively at the time, NI. Your question 'is it something to worry about?' I can't answer because I wondered the same myself! Aside from my kittens being moderately constipated it didn't, ultimately, cause any problems. But it has made me wonder if there is too much bone in some/all(?) of the NI minces which, aside from the issue you've mentioned, might cause a nutritional problem when fed exclusively over a more prolonged period of time.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

I've just spoken to the vet and they are very concerned about it apparently and think it could be a problem with his liver 

He is booked in for tomorrow morning and they want to do bloods. I really hope it's not that.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Oh I hope he is ok, this used to happen a lot with dogs before all this specialised food came out, when people years ago used to give dogs a lot of bones from the butchers to chew on [maybe still do], good luck at the vets, hope they are wrong


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

I guess it could explain the enormous wees that he does every day and why he is so wide around the middle all of a sudden. 

Just dropped a poo sample off and the receptionists were crumbling it through the freezer bag and saying its really not normal. Just wish I didn't have to wait until 9.40 tomorrow.

How long do blood test results tend to take? He has never had them before.


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## nicolaa123 (Mar 30, 2012)

Buttons1 said:


> I guess it could explain the enormous wees that he does every day and why he is so wide around the middle all of a sudden.
> 
> Just dropped a poo sample off and the receptionists were crumbling it through the freezer bag and saying its really not normal. Just wish I didn't have to wait until 9.40 tomorrow.
> 
> How long do blood test results tend to take? He has never had them before.


Depends on what they are testing for..Riley gets his liver readings the next day..

Hope all is ok


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Both the NI Vension and Wild Game bird have extremely high bone content, and all their cat recipes are on the bone heavy side - that's why I had to switch to Nutriment, as Charlie-girl was really, really struggling to poo, and nearly wound up at the emergency vets once, poor lass.  I'm too scared to feed NI again now.

Hope it's nothing more serious than excessive bone, Buttons


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Pale stool _could_ suggest liver/gallbladder issues, BUT it is seen quite commonly when the cat is fed raw and it contains a bit too much bone.
Your vet wont have seen this as they do not see many raw fed cats, so they are suspecting the worst.
You do know you are going to get the dry food lecture from the vet now?

Get the test results and then post back here.
Meanwhile I would be adding a couple of plain meat chunks to each meal.
FWIW, when I feed a meal of kidney, heart or liver the poops are nearly black......and sometimes I see a multi colour poop which starts off white and finishes up black!


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

I did wonder if it was the NI. He seems to only like the venison and wild game bird at the moment. I'm getting my case together to argue against any dry or prescription food.

I will add chunks to every meal and see how he goes. He's not going to be impressed with being kept in but he will have to put up with it while I monitor his poo.

I feel like I don't have many other options than NI though, he threw up the second he ate the natures menu duck and he isn't a fan of anything with beef in. He also isn't great with fish.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

Also, he seems a lot happier about being picked up for cuddles today compared to yesterday. He was play biting me every time I picked him up yesterday and howled when we held him to trim his claws. He seems happier now he has been for a poo. 

I just wish he was happier to do it in his tray. It wasnt properly light when we gave in this morning (7.30) but he was in a right state and even jumped in the empty bath and tried to dig a hole.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Why not feed him chunks of meat he likes and add Felini Complete supplemement to it? 

The problem I have with all the prepared minces is it's impossible to get an accurate statement from the vendors as to what ratio of bone, meat and offal they contain. My cats all suffered from chronic constipation, and 2 of them from frequent vomiting when I tried them for a while on the prepared minces (all makes). But they are fine on the raw chunks of meat and offal I feed them every other day (canned food the rest of the time).

The chewing, gnawing motion of eating raw meat is good for cats teeth, which is why chunks are so much better for them than mince. In fact I give my cats big strips of raw meat, so they really do have to chew it.

But if you want your cat to eat bone sometimes, and you say he likes wild game bird, then I recommend you to buy pigeon (or partridge) from the butchers, ask the butcher to chop the bird into 4 pieces (one piece per meal for each cat). I then freeze the meat for 10 days to kill any parasites. Defrost as required and serve.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

I do like the idea of preparing my own raw but I just don't think I have the time to dedicate to getting it right with two young children who take up loads of my time. Also, the only butcher near me is a (practically famous) organic butchers than wins every award going, so even their bacon is out of my price range (we bought the bacon for us once, not the cat!).

I wish I could alternate with canned food but literally every one I have tried have gone straight through him (including Zooplus and HKC ones)

I know 20% of a diet can be complementary. Does that mean that 20% of his diet each day could be chunks of meat and offal? For Dylan that would be around 45g.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Buttons1 said:


> I do like the idea of preparing my own raw but I just don't think I have the time to dedicate to getting it right with two young children who take up loads of my time. Also, the only butcher near me is a (practically famous) organic butchers than wins every award going, so even their bacon is out of my price range (we bought the bacon for us once, not the cat!).
> 
> I wish I could alternate with canned food but literally every one I have tried have gone straight through him (including Zooplus and HKC ones)
> 
> I know 20% of a diet can be complementary. Does that mean that 20% of his diet each day could be chunks of meat and offal? For Dylan that would be around 45g.


My lot have stopped eating their NI, and there does seem to be more bone content in it too...


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Pale stool could suggest liver/gallbladder issues


I honestly think there's a difference between the pale coloured stool which suggests such issues and the classic calcium heavy, white, crumbly stool described here.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

havoc said:


> I honestly think there's a difference between the pale coloured stool which suggests such issues and the classic calcium heavy, white, crumbly stool described here.


I agree totally......but do not think the vets will have taken this into consideration before jumping to conclusions.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I agree totally......but do not think the vets will have taken this into consideration before jumping to conclusions.


Could not agree more. Pale 'greasy' stools indicative of liver issues are almost a complete opposite of calcium rich stools.


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

Please try not to worry.

I had a little semi feral who would often have almost white, crumbly poo ( I think it was crumbly though I never actually picked it up ). 

She lived in my hay store (moved herself in) and would supplement the food I fed her with mice and anything else she could catch. The first time I saw the whiteish poo I was rather concerned but decided to monitor her rather than just bundling her off to the vets. I didn't want to destroy her recently found confidence in me as at that time I was the only person that she would allow to touch her. She was just fine. I had her for another 8 years . From time to time her poo would be as previously described but I just put it down to her catching and eating more mice than usual. It was nothing unusual for me to have 5 or 6 "heads, tails or other parts left for me from an overnight hunting session.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

havoc said:


> Could not agree more. Pale 'greasy' stools indicative of liver issues are almost a complete opposite of calcium rich stools.


TBH, the dry crumbly texture will probably worry them almost as much as the colour! Most vets (or rather the nurses, as they care for the cats while staying at the practice) will be used to voluminous soft cowpat type stools produced by the _carp_ they sell to feed cats.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks all. I feel a lot better now. I bet it is just the bone content. If the results come back clear I will have a think which route to go down to solve the problem. Id be a bit gutted if I had to totally abandon the NI, but hopefully I can find something to give alongside to balance it a bit.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

Does anyone have any views/experience of the bone content of the Woldsway Rabbit? I was avoiding it due to the minimum order and lack of freezer space, but I could make a plan to get a few people to store it for me if need be.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Buttons1 said:


> > Does anyone have any views/experience of the bone content of the Woldsway Rabbit?
> 
> 
> Yes, it is much too high. As far as I recall they quoted 20% bone when I asked, but it could have been as much as 50%. A cat eating a wild caught rabbit would not eat the whole skeleton, just a few of the small bones.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

chillminx said:


> > Why not feed him chunks of meat he likes and add Felini Complete supplemement to it?


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

chillminx said:


> Buttons1 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it is much too high. As far as I recall they quoted 20% bone when I asked, but it could have been as much as 50%. A cat eating a wild caught rabbit would not eat the whole skeleton, just a few of the small bones.
> ...


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

You can buy rabbit on the bone from Woldsway, which is what I do. It is in quite big pieces ( a whole carcass is divided into about 4 or 6 pieces as I recall) so you'll need a meat cleaver and/or mallet to divide it up into meal size servings. (It is not easy to chop through bone). That way your cat will then eat as much bone as he wants. 

Or you could grind some of the rabbit yourself if you want to be certain he gets some bone, and give him the rest of the serving to gnaw off the bone. The rabbit comes with the offal.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

I think he'd like that. I haven't tried him with anything with whole bone yet but he loves flinging the chunks of meat around (and then eating them) so I don't think he'd be worried about a ***** of meat on the bone.

I have been looking at other wet options too and I realised that I haven't tried Lily's Kitchen yet. I think I'd try the kitten version though as he isn't good with veggies.

Just showed this thread to my OH and he commented on how caring everyone is on here


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> Both the NI Vension and Wild Game bird have extremely high bone content, and all their cat recipes are on the bone heavy side - that's why I had to switch to Nutriment, as Charlie-girl was really, really struggling to poo, and nearly wound up at the emergency vets once, poor lass.  I'm too scared to feed NI again now.
> 
> Hope it's nothing more serious than excessive bone, Buttons


Have you found that Nutriment has helped with the constipation problems? I'm thinking of trying the starter pack.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Buttons1 said:


> Have you found that Nutriment has helped with the constipation problems? I'm thinking of trying the starter pack.


But is he actually constipated? 
I do think the starter pack is a good idea and good value.
Lillys kitchen is around 99p for a single foil pack meal and £3 for a large 400g can....very pricey in my opinion.

I think you are on the right track with raw and it is easy enough to supplement any ready made bone in mince, with additional chunks.
The next step would be to move to whole rabbits/chickens etc chunked up and see if he will eat that. TBH, that is the very best method on offer.
Have you joined Cats Completely Raw and Proud on FB, that is the approach they use.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

I have taken the plunge and ordered the Nutriment starter pack, its such great value! I texted my sister to ask her for some freezer space and she said its fine but can't I just put him on whiskas!! 

I'm not sure if he is constipated or not but his poos have been tiny and like clay since he has been on the NI so it wouldn't do any harm to include the Nutriment and add chunks.

We're off to the vets now. I have a very grumpy, hungry cat!


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

I tend to agree that it is just ash. I'll bet if you see one actually coming out it will not be white but will turn white quickly afterwards as the surface moisture evaporates; bite through it at that point and the inside will be a different shade. (Just a guess). High calcium is a component of high ash, I think. Certainly in any analysis I have done I always put the minerals in the ash bucket.

Note. Natural Instinct Wild Game Bird (his fave) has 4.6% ash content as fed vs, for example, Animonda Carny at 1.2% (just looked at their websites) so quite high really.

Looking forward to hearing what the vet says but I am leaning where paddypaws is. If the ash goes through and ends up in the poop where it should be as opposed to causing constipation, I can't see it being too serious a problem at all.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

That's interesting to know. I will have a look at the Nutriment ash content too.

We're back from the vets now. He had seen the poo from yesterday and his main concern was how pale it was right in the middle. He said it could indicate that the liver was not creating enough bile. He said these problems were very common in young males. He took bloods and I get the results at 2pm today.

His legs are covered in blood, bless him, but he said he was very calm when they took the samples.

I talked to him about his raw diet and he said he looked very good on it and it was obviously suiting him. He wasn't worried about his weight either (now 5.1kg) and said it was an indication of the diet and how good it was for him. Hooray! No lecture about not giving him dry food. 

I will let you know how the blood tests go. He said he could go outside now but I think I will wait for his legs to look a bit better otherwise a neighbour might think he's injured and take him to the vets. He could probably do with a sleep anyway, he was very upset by a very yappy dog and the whole cat carrier was shaking for ages, he was obviously really trembling.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

Nutriment is 3.1 chicken, 2.8 Salmon and 2.8 beef so may suit him better in terms of ash content.


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

I've just heard back from a farm in a nearby town who stock Nutriment dog food who have said they are very happy to order in the cat food for me 

I said I would see how I get in with my starter pack and let them know. I don't think I'd cope with 5 kilos at a time so that's great news.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I really wouldn't have worried as I said in my first post. This is very normal for raw fed animals.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Buttons1 said:


> Have you found that Nutriment has helped with the constipation problems? I'm thinking of trying the starter pack.


Charlie-girl hasn't had any problems on Nutriment, no - they seem to be very careful about the bone ratio in their products, too. I also find their analytical breakdown both a lot more detailed AND easier to understand!  So all good!


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## Buttons1 (Sep 2, 2013)

Blood results back and all normal 

I will keep an eye out and see if his poos look a bit less chalky with extra chunks of meat and the Nutriment.

Thanks all, really helpful as usual.

I'm far too much of a worrier to be a cat slave!


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## Catloverbearsden (Aug 20, 2013)

I think worrying goes with the job description.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Great news, although satori's suggestion of 'biting' through a cat poop has put me off my breakfast somewhat.
I suspect you have taught the vet something new about feline nutrition and digestion, shame you had to pay for the pleasure!


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

^^^. Then this is a must watch.....

Diarrhea in Cats - YouTube


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