# Hunting!!! What's your views!!!



## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

Ok there are many different types of hunting. I used to hunt alot. I used to get calls from farmers who would ask me to control the population of certain species to protect another species or to save their crops! I did this for many years without any problems until one day I had to shoot a family of birds.. I'll not go in to detail but I the birds became very distressed and knew what was happening... this was my last hunt. Soon after I sold my weapons. However - I do still think this kind of hunting needs to be carried out for the protection of other species and crops. 

We have invaded the wildlife with our roads and building forcing them in to an unatural habitat.. so sometimes I think it is necessarry to cull certain species!!

As for fox hunting - I'm so glad it has been ban.. I would love to take one of those posh twits in their red jacket and jodpers and drop them in the roughest part of Sheffield and let them run for their lives as they are being chased by an angry mob.. see how they like it!!

What's other peoples views on Hunting???


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

i personnally couldnt hurt or kill anything, ....but i know people that work for the famers , getting rid of rats mice etc, but i couldnt do it,


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

colliemerles said:


> i personnally couldnt hurt or kill anything, ....but i know people that work for the famers , getting rid of rats mice etc, but i couldnt do it,


I could probably manage a rat.. but since my last experience there's no way I'd get back into it..

It's weird.. I'd have no problem shooting certain members of the general public but couldn't hurt an animal!!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Magik said:


> I could probably manage a rat.. but since my last experience there's no way I'd get back into it..
> 
> It's weird.. I'd have no problem shooting certain members of the general public but couldn't hurt an animal!!


hee hee ,yeah same as, there are certain people you could just get hold of and,.............., but animals couldnt hurt them


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

I dont agree with fox hunting but do agree with the culling of mice and rats etc.......I used to go hunt saboteuring in my younger days and the twits in red coats were very snotty - the way some of them tret their horses too.......I cannot see how its a sport???
It may be banned but I think they still do it when they can get away with it - its like anything else its probably gone underground


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## colacooler (Nov 19, 2007)

I'm torn!Coming from a long line of farmers there is a great tradition in my family, although me and my parents didn't farm my uncles and auntis are still lamb farming.

Let me give you a few things to think about, badgers aren't fluffy lovey dovey black and white docile creatures, they are more destructive among the sheep than foxes, yet they are protected. The number of foxes in mid wales has absolutely shot up to uncontrollable levels.

While the method of fox hunting with dogs wasn't the most effective or dignified way of killing foxes, it's more for the fun than anything, it did drive them away.

Farmers now resort to shooting and trapping, I go up to the farm in Montgomeryshire few times a year and they have a chalk board with how many foxes they have shot, not killed, shot and since the few weeks before Easter when the lambing season started they have shot around 200 foxes.

This is people's livelihood we are talking about. If those foxes took 1 lamb in their lifetime, £10 a lamb - it's more than that but say £10, that's £2000 lost. In the news and media all we get is that these lovely dovey cute sweet animials are being killed by arrogant ignorant toffs, when that is such a skewed and biased view.

I don;t think us city slickers and urbanites should have as much say what goes on in the country as peoples lives are the countryside.

I find it hard to agree with hunting with dogs, but there should be a window for a planned cull.

The missus' is American, we stayed with her grandfather a few years back, and it was the hunting season and we shot about 10 deer, was amazing the steaks, and all the meet that came off it. Very bloody but in the end tasted great. Now this was in a controlled environment. Only 2 weeks of the year can you shoot deer in most places I think.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

I dont think I would be able to shoot a living creature. But I am for a reasonable controlled hunt without stupid cruelty in late Autumn when there is no babies...


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## Sophia (Apr 1, 2008)

Magik said:


> As for fox hunting - I'm so glad it has been ban.. I would love to take one of those posh twits in their red jacket and jodpers and drop them in the roughest part of Sheffield and let them run for their lives as they are being chased by an angry mob.. see how they like it!!
> 
> What's other peoples views on Hunting???


Yes, you are right. Everyone single person who fox hunts is a posh twit. How stereotypical would you like to be?!

I've hunted and I'm neither particularly posh or indeed a twit! People that hunt are so diverse, it's not just blue blood on a horse - one of my friend's I've met through hunting lived most of her life in a caravan and now works as a waitress. I'd hardly call her posh. (And she's 'well 'ard like blood, she'd have those Sheffield chavs like dat, innit maaan. )


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## Sophia (Apr 1, 2008)

Also, could you please explain something else to me, as I'm not sure I fully understand your argument. 

At the beginning, you've said (and I quote) ... "to control the population of certain species to protect another species or to save their crops" by killing them - how then, does fox hunting differ from this? 

Other than, it involves slightly more people, some of whom are mounted on horseback? 

Ther basic principle of fox hunting is/was the same - to protect a species or crop from another by the controlling the latter population.

I can't help thinking (and please forgive me if I'm wrong) but it sounds as though you dislike the people (or their 'persona') that are involved with hunting, rather than the hunting itself?


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

Magik said:


> As for fox hunting - I'm so glad it has been ban.. I would love to take one of those posh twits in their red jacket and jodpers and drop them in the roughest part of Sheffield and let them run for their lives as they are being chased by an angry mob.. see how they like it!!


Exactly, I hate fox hunting, I've watched some programmes on TV and its barbaric, poor fox must be terrified, apparently they die of exhuastion most of the time if not they get mauled by a group of dogs.  Thank god it's been made illegal in this country!


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

Sophia said:


> how then, does fox hunting differ from this?
> 
> Other than, it involves slightly more people, some of whom are mounted on horseback?
> 
> Ther basic principle of fox hunting is/was the same - to protect a species or crop from another by the controlling the latter population.


The method is very different. The method used in fox hunting is nothing short of EXTREME ANIMAL CRUELTY, if it was about protecting other species why not just kill it outright instead of chasing it for miles and miles first!?! It's very different from a quick kill, with minimal suffering for the animal.


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## Sophia (Apr 1, 2008)

I can't remember who the OP was who said this - but they mentioned about the attitudes of the people who they had seen hunting and they way they treated their horses. 

I am geniunely sorry for you witnessing that - like anything, there are people in this world (for whatever reason) that do not always conduct themselves as the rest of people (in thus case a hunt) would or should. For example, I was shopping in a supermarket the other day and a shop assistant was particularly rude to me - it would be wrong of me to label all supermarket assistants as rude, petulant and generally as thick-as-to-short planks, even though this boy was!

The majority of people who hunt would do pretty much anything for their horses - I certainly would. I owe my horses so much (particularly the one I used to hunt regularly on - I am completely endebted for what the little mare has done to me). However, of course, for a professional they are going to view their horse's slightly differently (although hopefully never as a machine, although of course it does happen) - they need to be 'useful' in so much as that they need to pay their way and do a job required - but that doesn't excuse bad handling of a horse. 

So in short, not everybody that hunts treats their horse's badly or has bad manners - I really just wanted to get that across to people.


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

The hunting of foxes hasnt actually been banned, its just a ban on using dogs to hunt them.
I can see that its not a nice way for an animal to die (being ripped apart by dogs) but what people dont understand is now the terrier men must shoot the fox. They need to have a bloody good aim to kill it out right and now 90% of the time the fox runs off injured and dieing a slow death!
Like I said, I see that being ripped apart isnt a nice way to go but at least it was instant. Now its not garaunteed!


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## bordercolliepup (Jan 9, 2008)

Firstly I think fox hunting is a cruel sport and I'm glad it's no longer , would you like a pack of hounds rip you apart , Ive had plenty of whips at me from the hunt leader when I was younger for expressing my views 
There is better ways in controling animals such as this without the cruel ways , 
Animals that need to be controled should be in a way that is not cruel and doesn't destress the animal in anyway , I live in the country and I have seen the damage animals can do around a farm ect ect , when you have the lively hoods of farmers at stake then something should be done , I hate any sort of having to kill any animal for reasons or another, but when you look at the damage that some of these animals do , and the costs involved , 
You have to look at both sides of the story 
I've seen farmers ruined by tb and there whole lives go down the pan.
Theres a right and a wrong way of doing things .
If it has to be done then wait untill mating season and bringing up the young is over and done with


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

I have been hunting a few times with my local hunt,its a lovely atmosphere everyone is so friendly helpful and nice.On the boxing day hunt a sabatour had a gas horn thing that he was pointing at us and sounding off!! These so called animal lovers were intentially scaring the horses and potentially endangering us riders.Not one person,however rich,was unpleasant ,snooty or un helpful.Its so easy for someone who has never been to judge and assume and come to the wrong conclusions.My husband also shoots,as do our boys.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

I come from the west country and have lived in areas where there is fox hunting. I find that the people that are intolerant of fox hunting are urban dwellers. Foxes spread disease, kill livestock and are more than capable, and DO kill cats that are free roaming.

Fox hunting is an old fashioned but recognised means of keeping the fox population under control.

I haven't read all the way through this thread, but if there aren't already farmers posting in here, they should be - they can explain their position.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> I come from the west country and have lived in areas where there is fox hunting. I find that the people that are intolerant of fox hunting are urban dwellers. Foxes spread disease, kill livestock and are more than capable, and DO kill cats that are free roaming.
> 
> Fox hunting is an old fashioned but recognised means of keeping the fox population under control.
> 
> I haven't read all the way through this thread, but if there aren't already farmers posting in here, they should be - they can explain their position.


I'm not against controlling the fox population, I'd rather there wasn't a need for it and that they could just be left be but I understand why it needs to be done to protect other animals such as sheep and chickens.

I am against the way it was done. It's very cruel to chase a fox for miles and miles which often results in it dying of exhuastion or it being ripped apart by numerous dogs. All animals have a right to a humane death.


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## terriermaid (Nov 5, 2007)

dh.dti said:


> I wonder what the views on fox hunting will be, when we are over populated with them.
> 
> In the area we live, we have already noticed a large increase in fox activity, which means they are now moving into suburban areas to scavenge...


keep moving them into suburbia ,pulling out the bins and spreading mange ,we dont want them in the country ,i dont think it was the countryside people that voted for the ban


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## Sophia (Apr 1, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> The method is very different. The method used in fox hunting is nothing short of EXTREME ANIMAL CRUELTY, if it was about protecting other species why not just kill it outright instead of chasing it for miles and miles first!?! It's very different from a quick kill, with minimal suffering for the animal.


The fox actually died quickly however when it caught by the hounds and this has been proved by various reports into the hunting of foxes with hounds - I agree, it may not be the prettiest way to go, but it was pretty instant.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

Sophia said:


> The fox actually died quickly however when it caught by the hounds and this has been proved by various reports into the hunting of foxes with hounds.


Also in my experiances the animal in question didnt get very far,certainly not far enough to get exhausted.And it was very quick and carefully monitered.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

All forms of hunting is evil & cruel and it should ALL be banned .


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

How do you feel about controlled slaughter? Farming cows and taking them to slaughter?


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> How do you feel about controlled slaughter? Farming cows and taking them to slaughter?[/QUOTE
> 
> as long as the animal aint sufforing im kinda fine with it.
> 
> i say kinda fine because i love animals and i dont want to see none murdered but at the end of the day more then less people eat meat.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> SavannahKitten said:
> 
> 
> > How do you feel about controlled slaughter? Farming cows and taking them to slaughter?[/QUOTE
> ...


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

if we could leave everything to live and die naturaly (ie natural food chain)we would probably be a lot better off. i'm a veggie but if i was to go out,stand in some water and catch a fish with my own hands i would eat it because that would be 'natural' if a dog chases an animal with the intention of killing it,NOT,because a human had told it to do so but because it will use it for food then that is ok in my eyes but why sould a fox die so a sheep can live to feed us?


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Eolabeo said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think that anyone can really say that any slaughtering is humane,travelling to the abbatoir,standing in line hearing,smelling what is coming.Short of blindfolding and earmuffing them all
> ...


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

well if you go veggie then you may inspire the rest of your family who could change the mind of their friends and so on. thats a lot less people to kill for surely?


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

minnie said:


> well if you go veggie then you may inspire the rest of your family who could change the mind of their friends and so on. thats a lot less people to kill for surely?


i know wat ya saying minnie, but the truth is, ther is many many many more meat eaters then veggies and to be honest i cant see that changing.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

no it doesnt i saw some new born lambs the other day they had numbers sprayed on there sides.They were skipping around everywhere tried not to think about it to much cos i love lamb!When you buy meat from the butchers/supermarket you dont see an animal,or think about what happened before it got there!!ignorance is bliss.Watching horrible animal cruelty programs is pointless and upsetting as there is nothing that will change the way things are.


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

i know but why live your life being responsable for taking so many lives?


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

Sophia said:


> The fox actually died quickly however when it caught by the hounds and this has been proved by various reports into the hunting of foxes with hounds - I agree, it may not be the prettiest way to go, but it was pretty instant.


Fox died quickly when? 

Yes they die quickly when caught but that doesn't mean they haven't been terrified and running for their lifes before that. 



clare7577 said:


> Also in my experiances the animal in question didnt get very far,certainly not far enough to get exhausted.And it was very quick and carefully monitered.


Maybe not in your experience but I've seen an example of it going on for hours, do they give up no, they chase it until it dies of exhaustion.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Almost all forms of slaughter/cull would be seen by humans as 'inhumane'. We cannot put hundreds of foxes to sleep - they have to be caught first, and to do that involves a hunt of some kind - or cages to capture them. We cannot leave poison down for foxes, because our dogs may have it. And poison is probably one of the worst ways to kill an animal.

What about population control in rats? How can we humanely kill colonies of rats? We currently use poison which dries them out - a terrible death.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> Almost all forms of slaughter/cull would be seen by humans as 'inhumane'. We cannot put hundreds of foxes to sleep - they have to be caught first, and to do that involves a hunt of some kind - or cages to capture them. We cannot leave poison down for foxes, because our dogs may have it. And poison is probably one of the worst ways to kill an animal.
> 
> What about population control in rats? How can we humanely kill colonies of rats? We currently use poison which dries them out - a terrible death.


True, but I think traditional fox hunting is going too far in the wrong direction, there may not be a completely humane way to do it but there are _more_ humane ways.


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## Chikadee (Mar 26, 2008)

I have no problem with a fox being shot if on a farmers land, or one near, but hunting is just an arrogant and selfish hobby.... I never have and I will never agree with it. 
Not saying that everyone who goes on a hunt horrible, but the hunt that comes past my house (I love in the woods) are the most cruel horrible bunch of people I've ever met, can't stand none of them.
Where I used to ride, a girl turned up in a t-shirt saying 'I hunt, what you gonna do about it?' its pathetic.


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## colacooler (Nov 19, 2007)

Simply put farmers and the like now have to take it in to there own hands to kill foxes.

My family still allow fox hunting on their private land with horses and dogs.
a) They make money out of it.
b) Stops my family from having to possess large amounts of gun ammunition/traps/and spend a lot of time watiing for foxes to appear.

BBC NEWS | UK | Hunts hail Boxing Day turn-out
Shows what a ridiculous law it is and that it wasn't thought through properly. Where are all these "Campaigners" on boxing day then eh?

Now I don't like it but it's the country way of doing it and I'll protect their right to do it. Badgers have been more of a problem and they are protected species, not that that really stops some people.

On the slaughtering animals for food side of things. Free Range chickens are killed the same way as battery chickens. Tazerd then slit throat. Cows either have a lead bolt shot in to their brain or tazerd and then slit throat and blead out.

There is no nice way of doing it animals are here for us to eat, they have brains the size of pees, they aren't as advanced as us in their feelings and emotions etc.

I think it's a sad state of society when we offer more legal protection to a chicken or any animal than we do an unborn baby that is about to be aborted just because some dumb man and woman don't _want_ a baby.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

I think that hunting is natural and don't think any of it should be banned but it should be supervised so that people hunting don't over hunt? or possibly places where people are meant to put fish back that they do actually put them back. I don't know if that makes any kind of sense.


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## clairemac9 (Jan 14, 2008)

my oh and his father both hunt alot they go shooting, but mostly out with the dogs not ours though his dads terriers and lurcheryme thingy bobs


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

I am totally against hunting always have been and always will be, and i live in the country, i really cant stand the snobby people that hunt one animal with so many dogs, put blood on childrens faces they make me sick, i walk a lot and its "open the gate you" by the riders no please or thank you , sorry to say i never do i hate what they do and also hate being talked to like im the scum of the earth,


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

Most of the people on a hunt are normal 9-5 people with full time jobs,kids etc.Lots of us live on estates not in big houses,and certainly couldnt be described as snobby!


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

Hi Clare, sorry i did not mean the whole country i was thinking about where i live and they really are the most ignorant people i have met , its just a small village i live in and they dont give you the time of day unless they need a gate opened or closed when your passing , and they are not polite at all, they ride over peoples land without permision, and often foxes end up in ones garden only then you can refuse to allow one in to kill it , i have my grandchildren here a lot and i really dont want them seeing that sort of thing in my own garden.


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## silent_dreamer85 (Mar 10, 2008)

I have been fox hunting twice when i was younger, the hunt caught nothing both times this posh twits as magik so kindly refered to us as mainly just use it as a outing for the horse and is very good training, that is what most go out for not the killing of foxes


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

really nice day out i must say.  ba**rds

YouTube - Ban Foxhunting in Ireland

its fcuking cruel and needs to be stopped.

silent dreamers....what do these posh f'ers do once they come across a fox wiv their dogs wile on a nice day out???? wave at it???


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## silent_dreamer85 (Mar 10, 2008)

im afraid to say yes it was a nice day out and as i said 9 out of 10 times they catch nothing! Hunting happenes everywhere with all different kinds of animals, fox hunting has been around for years.
Do you not eat meat? Meat is a dead animal i hate to tell you! that animal hasnt died of natural causes its been killed for you to eat. way the world works im afraid


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

silent_dreamer85 said:


> im afraid to say yes it was a nice day out and as i said 9 out of 10 times they catch nothing! Hunting happenes everywhere with all different kinds of animals, fox hunting has been around for years.
> Do you not eat meat? Meat is a dead animal i hate to tell you! that animal hasnt died of natural causes its been killed for you to eat. way the world works im afraid


yes i undastand where your coming from silent but whats the scence in murdering foxes the way they do??? we dont eat the meat do we???

i know all sorts of animals suffer for different reasons and its up to us to try put a stop to it, as for the animals that have the meat we consume that kinda stop is never gonna happen is it, but things like this sort of hunting we can try put an end to...right???


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## silent_dreamer85 (Mar 10, 2008)

It's always gonna happen, i agree there is a more humane way to kill the fox. 
As i understand it it is to keep the number of foxs down, they cause farmers problems killing there live stock. Anyways that is all banned now.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

silent_dreamer85 said:


> It's always gonna happen, i agree there is a more humane way to kill the fox.
> As i understand it it is to keep the number of foxs down, they cause farmers problems killing there live stock. Anyways that is all banned now.


I really dont undastand how people can do this sort of thing to poor animals  as u said there is a more humane way to do this, all i can say is them people cant have a heart .


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## silent_dreamer85 (Mar 10, 2008)

Tell you what is sick, a while ago i got sent this video on facebook about fur, i cant remember what country it was in but about how they kill the animal for fur, crashin their head on the floor and things like that, sometimes they are still alive while being skinned! Now that is disgusitin! No need for all this so people can wear a dead animal


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

silent_dreamer85 said:


> Tell you what is sick, a while ago i got sent this video on facebook about fur, i cant remember what country it was in but about how they kill the animal for fur, crashin their head on the floor and things like that, sometimes they are still alive while being skinned! Now that is disgusitin! No need for all this so people can wear a dead animal


ive seen that, they was like some sorta foxes wernt they??? they was all moving wile totaly skinned???  
Yip thers deffo no need for this killing just for people to wear them on their backs


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## silent_dreamer85 (Mar 10, 2008)

wasnt foxes i saw it was in foreign country some sort of bear and small furry animals, but again while people request to wear fur it will be done for the money! A while ago i went to london and outside harrods was a protest against fur called harrods horrids as they stock it, so makes you wonder where exactly there fur comes from


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## furrypaws (Mar 12, 2008)

Have just read all the posts on this aurgument and wanted to share some thoughts:
As someone who has lived in urban and rural environments, I find it pathetic that its seen as a war between the country folk and the townies. Im sure each others economies are very interwoven, is it only country folk who eat the farmers produce, what about rural tourism, and have these country folk never experienced a night at the cinema or theartre? Its like internal bloody racism, when I get in my car, I like to drive through the beautiful views of the countryside as well as enjoy some retail therapy in the city. We are all the same!!

As we are apparently the most intellegent species, have we not evolved to understand that we are just one of many animals put on this earth. Other creatures are not just here for our pleasure and appetites. They used to have their own ecological worth in this world, yet we have distorted and abused them over the years to meet our own selfish needs. 
There is uproar when a dog attacks a child, (A dog that was brought up and nurtured by humans, allowed to roam / escape by humans) We know the dog is not hungry, maybe it's his 'sport'?

I for one think we need to control our own population, it has, for far too long ravaged this planet and all the living recourses in it. 
I know that I am far from perfect, I accept people eat meat, but I do not accept that people should hunt, torture and kill any other living animal for 'fun'. You can excersice and enjoy horses without having to maim and kill at the same time! Foxhunting has never made a significant contribution to the control of the fox population. It is just torture, True, there is no 'ideal' way to kill any animal, whether it be to control desease or for food, but there are better ways than hunting with hounds.

And on the going vegetarian '1 person dosent make a difference' subject, YES THEY DO! If 100 people are thinking the same thing, think of the difference if you take the plunge! And if you need further convincing, you should read 'The price of meat' Find out what they really feed the farm animals and how they make them grow so fat so quickly!


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## Chikadee (Mar 26, 2008)

I agree to alot of that! No animal deserves to be killed for fun, I let my dogs out wen the hunt comes past, and have often had arguments with one of the guys there 

However, I don't have a problem with eating meat, as long as you kno where it has come from and that up until slaughter the animal had a fantastic life, which is why we only eat organic meat.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> really nice day out i must say.  ba**rds
> 
> its fcuking cruel and needs to be stopped.
> 
> ...


Exactly totally agree, I don't understand how someone can call themselves an animal lover and then chase and terrorise a fox for miles!?!?! That just doesn't make sense to me!



furrypaws said:


> I know that I am far from perfect, I accept people eat meat, but I do not accept that people should hunt, torture and kill any other living animal for 'fun'. You can excersice and enjoy horses without having to maim and kill at the same time! Foxhunting has never made a significant contribution to the control of the fox population. It is just torture, True, there is no 'ideal' way to kill any animal, whether it be to control desease or for food, but there are better ways than hunting with hounds.


Totally agree again, it doesn't have to be done in such a barbaric way, there are far more humane ways to do it!


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

Fox hunting isnt about exercising horses in large open fields whilst chasing a fox. The hunt is quite often employed to do the job by the farmers. Hunts cant just decide they're out today galloping all over the countryside on tom, dick or harry's land.
The hunts are paid and given permission to get rid of the foxes so if anything the farmers should be seen as equally responsible. 
Hunts do have followers which play no major part in the job they are out to do but these followers are a source of income to the hunt. 
The law hasnt stopped foxes being chased or killed, it just prevents the hunts from allowing dogs to kill the fox. Now the terrier men have to have a good aim with their guns and many dont which now results in foxes being injured and dying slowly and painfully.
Like I said before, I know being killed by dogs isnt a nice thing but it is instant. Now thats not garaunteed.
Foxes are still flushed out of their dens with terriers so from my point of view this law hasnt done a great deal for the fox!
Ive hunted all my life (dare I say that ), Iam far from posh, or a snob.
In all the times I have hunted ive never seen a case where a fox is chased for miles and miles. As soon as the hounds catch the scent they follow it and in actual fact it all happens in a short space of time. Of course there are exeptions.
Never have I come across anyone mistreating their horse or pony either. 
I have however come across sabateurs hitting, whipping and purposely scaring horses to the point where the rider has almost come off.
Those so called animal rights activists have been known to cut horses with knives and I know of cases where they have been charged for this! Of course these are the things that people dont often get to hear about and its things like that which make no sense to me.
I understand peoples views on hunting even though more often than not they no nothing about it. What I cant understand is when the protesters scare and injure horses as part of their campaign.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

bullbreeds said:


> Fox hunting isnt about exercising horses in large open fields whilst chasing a fox. The hunt is quite often employed to do the job by the farmers. Hunts cant just decide they're out today galloping all over the countryside on tom, dick or harry's land.
> The hunts are paid and given permission to get rid of the foxes so if anything the farmers should be seen as equally responsible.
> Hunts do have followers which play no major part in the job they are out to do but these followers are a source of income to the hunt.
> The law hasnt stopped foxes being chased or killed, it just prevents the hunts from allowing dogs to kill the fox. Now the terrier men have to have a good aim and many dont which now results in foxes being injured and dying slowly and painfully.
> ...


I have stayed out of this up until now and can I say that this is a well written post I was born when both my parents were in hunt service - probably not out of choice - but they were employed to look after the horses in a time when there wasnt a great deal of work especially where my father was from and the choice there was coal mine or coal mine!!! So I grew up with it and it is now a source of income for both my brother and my brother in law! In a society where jobs and money are scarce you have to take what is on offer and yes, I did hunt and no I am not toffee-nosed or a snob.


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

tashi said:


> I have stayed out of this up until now and can I say that this is a well written post I was born when both my parents were in hunt service - probably not out of choice - but they were employed to look after the horses in a time when there wasnt a great deal of work especially where my father was from and the choice there was coal mine or coal mine!!! So I grew up with it and it is now a source of income for both my brother and my brother in law! In a society where jobs and money are scarce you have to take what is on offer and yes, I did hunt and no I am not toffee-nosed or a snob.


Cheers Tashi.
Thats just it, right or wrong, its been a way of life and an income for many.
Thats why they couldnt just ban it outright. Hunts are tax payers.
Another side of it to look at is how it would affect the animals that work for the hunts.
Already 100's of hounds have had to be destroyed due to the closure of some hunts and I have seen first hand many horses come on to the market only to be passed to rescue centres when the owners couldnt sell them. Not to mention the ones that have been destroyed. It has such a knock on effect that people have no idea about. 
The horse sales market went through the roof after the ban and now rescue centres are bursting at the seems.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

and the hounds are such lovely people I worked with them not so long back and they are stunning animals so loving and kind


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

tashi said:


> and the hounds are such lovely people I worked with them not so long back and they are stunning animals so loving and kind


I wanted to work in hunt kennels, it must be great.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

bullbreeds said:


> I wanted to work in hunt kennels, it must be great.


I had the best of both worlds there loved the horses and the hounds and learnt alot about both of them


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

yeah the hounds are so lovable its so difficult to imagne them killing a fox or even a fly


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

minnie said:


> yeah the hounds are so lovable its so difficult to imagne them killing a fox or even a fly


and the puppies I used to sit for hours in the lodges with them


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

same here they were so adorable


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> Cheers Tashi.
> Thats just it, right or wrong, its been a way of life and an income for many.
> Thats why they couldnt just ban it outright. Hunts are tax payers.
> Another side of it to look at is how it would affect the animals that work for the hunts.
> ...





tashi said:


> and the hounds are such lovely people I worked with them not so long back and they are stunning animals so loving and kind


OMG 2 of my fav peoplez on here are toffs


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> OMG 2 of my fav peoplez on here are toffs


.........We'r jolly nice people i'll have you know!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

No not toffs Loe just Born into it and so didnt really have any choice doesnt change WHO I am (upset now)


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> .........We'r jolly nice people i'll have you know!


LOL  glad ya knew i was joking


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

tashi said:


> No not toffs Loe just Born into it and so didnt really have any choice


so you didnt have a choice as a person not to get on the horse and not hunt???


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

if ya family go hunting then how are you to know different if ya bought up bein told itz right


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Eolabeo said:


> so you didnt have a choice as a person not to get on the horse and not hunt???


I dont think I ever said I went hunting just that is where I was born and how some of the family are employed LOL


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

minnie said:


> if ya family go hunting then how are you to know different if ya bought up bein told itz right


I see........


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

if you have a love of Animals, then you know in your heart what is right and wrong!


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> I personally don't have a problem with hunting, i even have friends who go lamping...


to tell the truth i used to go rabbiting wiv my m8 and her m8s dad once in a wile wiv the jack russells.... never did like the fact they killed the rabbits wiv cork guns either


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> I personally don't have a problem with hunting, i even have friends who go lamping...


 Lamping! You've done it now dh. 
Me too, other half goes lamping with the farm workers round here.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

dh.dti said:


> I personally don't have a problem with hunting, i even have friends who go lamping...


i also have friends go lamping,,,,,,,


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> to tell the truth i used to go rabbiting wiv my m8 and her m8s dad once in a wile wiv the jack russells.... never did like the fact they killed the rabbits wiv cork guns either


I cant watch them gut the rabbits, it stinks too.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> I cant watch them gut the rabbits, it stinks too.


how do they kill the badgers????

i donno wats involved in lamping for badgers???
or is that ban???


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

Tashi! Your puppy going to get a migrane!


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> how do they kill the badgers????
> 
> i donno wats involved in lamping for badgers???


I dunno about badgers, thought they were protected 
Lamping just involves trucks, large bright torches and guns! Oh and rabbits.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Anele Jessica said:


> Tashi! Your puppy going to get a migrane!


ha ha ha,,,,morning elena,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

i've gutted a rabbit while out with minnie and some jrts of my friends not a nice job and i still feel guilty today


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> I dunno about badgers, thought they were protected
> Lamping just involves trucks, large bright torches and guns!


wernt sure, i dont know much about hunting except only the foxes really, even foxes i dont know much about really.

i edited my wording back there be4 ya replyed lol...i wondered is badger hunting was ban or not.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

colliemerles said:


> ha ha ha,,,,morning elena,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Morning, Lorraine! How are you Today?


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

Anele Jessica said:


> Tashi! Your puppy going to get a migrane!


I think its on something, its been doing that all morning!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Anele Jessica said:


> Morning, Lorraine! How are you Today?


just waiting for vixie to come back from vets with cat,, hope they are ok,,,,


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Anele Jessica said:


> Tashi! Your puppy going to get a migrane!


why hun?????


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

colliemerles said:


> just waiting for vixie to come back from vets with cat,, hope they are ok,,,,


O dear - is that spayed girl she took to the Vets?


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

tashi said:


> why hun?????


He's been shaking for ages.......poor thing.........


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> wernt sure, i dont know much about hunting except only the foxes really, even foxes i dont know much about really.
> 
> i edited my wording back there be4 ya replyed lol...i wondered is badger hunting was ban or not.


Im pretty sure badgers are protected, although I remember something on the news about them trying to cut their numbers down.
We'v got loads round here, ive even had one tear into my bullmastiff bitch before. It scarred her face the bas*ard.
They can be quite vicious things. Alot of them get run over round here. 
I think they'r pretty to look at but the do narf chuck up if they get hit by a car!


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> Im pretty sure badgers are protected, although I remember something on the news about them trying to cut their numbers down.
> We'v got loads round here, ive even had one tear into my bullmastiff bitch before. It scarred her face the bas*ard.
> They can be quite vicious things. Alot of them get run over round here.
> I think they'r pretty to look at but the do narf chuck up if they get hit by a car!


LMAO hahaha, i know there vicious coz seen em on tv...very distructive aswell.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Anele Jessica said:


> He's been shaking for ages.......poor thing.........


I am with you now was thinking about my little 'singing' princess


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

don't stop no-one from killing em law or no law found 2 poisoned badgers the other day lieing on the pavement


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

minnie said:


> don't stop no-one from killing em law or no law found 2 poisoned badgers the other day lieing on the pavement


Thats right.

thats the thing init, no matta wat law is bougt out its always gonna happen...like it or not.
i may not like some things that are done to the wildlife but the fact it it wont stop so we gotta learn ta live wiv it, nomatta how much we disaproove.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> Like I said before, I know being killed by dogs isnt a nice thing but it is instant.


I agree with that and I hope you're right that the fox is caught quickly in most instances.

I have seen an example of a hunt that went on for many hours and many miles, the fox was eventually caught when it was exhausted and ripped to pieces. That is wrong, hours of torment for the fox while it is was being chased by 20-30 people/horses/dogs, in my opinion that shouldn't even be classed as a hunt, it's outright animal cruelty.

If the fox was caught quickly and killed quickly I wouldn't have a problem with it. I wouldn't like it because I don't like to see any animal killed for any reason but it's something that has to be done.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

hello, where have you been Alan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> what do you think about lamping alan?


Don't even know what it is to be honest 



colliemerles said:


> hello, where have you been Alan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


I've been busy working! First for everything! Gotta do something sometimes though!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

ajshep1984 said:


> Don't even know what it is to be honest
> 
> I've been busy working! First for everything! Gotta do something sometimes though!


,,..........


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## cuteaddiction (Jan 17, 2008)

"The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable" sums up my view on the matter perfectly. I am glad hunting foxes with dogs has been consigned to the history books. Just because something is "tradition" doesn't make it right. 

There is nothing sporting about chasing a fox until it can no longer run, blocking the foxholes so there is no escape then having dogs tear it to bits. 

The pest control argument doesn't hold water. If you need to control foxes, by all means shoot them, it is cleaner and quicker. People who are pro-hunting also need to stop facing in two different directions. On the one hand they try to justify fox hunting by saying it is necessary for pest control and on the other they try to say they aren't even denting the fox population because more are killed on the roads every year than by mounted hunts. 

Good riddance, frankly.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2008)

cuteaddiction said:


> "The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable" sums up my view on the matter perfectly. I am glad hunting foxes with dogs has been consigned to the history books. Just because something is "tradition" doesn't make it right.
> 
> There is nothing sporting about chasing a fox until it can no longer run, blocking the foxholes so there is no escape then having dogs tear it to bits.
> 
> ...


Good point!


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I have no problem with killing to eat, despite being a vegetarian.

I campaigned to ban fox hunting and living in a village, I was surprised to find that the majority of people were all for a ban.

What I cannot understand, is how people can deride pleasure from killing and calling it sport. It is totally beyond my comprehension. 

I also find the wearing of real fur abhorant. If people knew how these animals were kept and killed, I hope that they would chose an alternative.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

never worn real fur,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,never would,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

me either, I just couldn't do it


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2008)

just found this pic of me on maizie at our last hunt.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> just found this pic of me on maizie at our last hunt.


She looks useful did you used to compete on her as well got a lovely jumping bum!!


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2008)

No havent done anything really,just a few hunts and hacking,shes 7 ive had her 2 years.she`s on trial at her new home now til thursday,hopefully she`ll behave and they will keep her as ive lost my confidencethe hunt in pic,i fell and got my foot stuck in stirrup scared the hell out of me i think that was the start of it


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> No havent done anything really,just a few hunts and hacking,shes 7 ive had her 2 years.she`s on trial at her new home now til thursday,hopefully she`ll behave and they will keep her as ive lost my confidencethe hunt in pic,i fell and got my foot stuck in stirrup scared the hell out of me i think that was the start of it


What a shame she looks to have a nice kind eye as well - miss mine like crazy!!!


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2008)

Nice kind eyes but a hot head and stubben streak and a liking for a 180 degree rear!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> Nice kind eyes but a hot head and stubben streak and a liking for a 180 degree rear!


I had one like that he was an ex racehorse lovely looking animal but an absolute bathplug did a bit of hunter chasing with him but sold him on as if the horse in front fell he would stop he didnt like being a front runner hence why he was sold out of racing I guess!!!!

I had a love of chestnut mares find a good one and they would give you the earth twice over to please, the last mare I had was chestnut/white skewbald and she was wonderful.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2008)

she was a typical tb chesnut mare! very pretty and very well bred,cost me quite a bit,she needed more than i could give,i think i overestimated my abilities when i bought herin the end i was to scared to handle her on the ground! i used to be so confident,would get on ANYTHING!!now i can just about handle my daughters 12.2 dartmoorlooking for a excercise cart now for her to do the quieter things for a while....


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> she was a typical tb chesnut mare! very pretty and very well bred,cost me quite a bit,she needed more than i could give,i think i overestimated my abilities when i bought herin the end i was to scared to handle her on the ground! i used to be so confident,would get on ANYTHING!!now i can just about handle my daughters 12.2 dartmoorlooking for a excercise cart now for her to do the quieter things for a while....


That is a great pastime we used to have a cob x hackney ride and drive real good fun and a few of us used to get together on a weekend and go on a pub crawl


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2008)

Its brilliant i used to have a dartmoor gelding,we used to all go out in the cart,really miss it.Just got to find a good resonably priced one nowapparently toffee`s done it before,i think she`ll be good.also amys outgrown her and got a new pony,so will do her good to be busy.


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## wizard1st (Jun 2, 2008)

Have been hunting just the once think I was 9 did not know a thing about hunting.But the thought of a couple of hours of free riding ,what 9 year old would not take the offer up.have never did it again.......dont agree with it.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2008)

Been working all day so I've come to this debate rather late. I've read through it all and can understand why foxes need to be culled. What I can't understand is why it can't be done in a more human way. And what I really, really, really cannot understand is how animal lovers (because we are all animals lovers on this forum) can somehow manage to justify to themselves that going out to see a fox ripped apart by a pack of dogs is a "fun" day out. It's not my idea of fun.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

This is a subject that is really contraversial, personally I disagree with all blood sports.

The problem I am having is that what is the difference between hunting and a blood sport.

Unfortunately a fox hunt is perceived to be fun, exhilorating and exciting, which unfortunately are not the attributes most people are familar with prior to killing a living creature.

I don't live on a farm so the urban foxes to me aren't a problem, cute really. As they are a pest to farmers then like it or lump it, its a problem that needs to be dealt with, I would prefer in a humane way.


Sue


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I am a vegetarian. I was brought up on farm property, and it was not long before I started to realise that the meat on my plate was actually the animals that I walked amongst and in some cases played with.

I am absolutely against killing for sport. It is barbaric and anyone who does so must be sick. However, to kill to eat is a different story.

I live in a village and the people I know were totally opposed to fox hunting. The majority of the fox hunting fraternity are arrogant barstewards, with no valid argument of support, apart from their blood lust. For anyone who has not seen a fox torn to shreds by dogs, it is nothing short of sickening.

Since hunting was banned, the fox population contrary to supporters, has remained stable, with no increase in their numbers. A good site is Fox Hunting in the UK :: Foxhunting Magic, is that you?


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## lucy barker (May 21, 2008)

nina i do agree with your point i hate the thought of an animal being killed for sport its not very nice. but hte only thing i worried about when fox hunting was banned was what will happen to the beaglees that they use for fox hunting i only worry that they are bred for that purpose and hundreds of dogs that were once used for fox hunting have now become obseleat any idea what happens to them anyone?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

If you are on about the foxhounds they are still in the hunt kennels still being cared for in the same way they now go out drag hunting twice a week.


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## lucy barker (May 21, 2008)

tashi said:


> If you are on about the foxhounds they are still in the hunt kennels still being cared for in the same way they now go out drag hunting twice a week.


thanks i just always wandered what they did now!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

they are being well cared for along with the horses and are exercised every morning.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

i dont think you should ever kill anything unless you intend to eat it


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

A lot of people are unaware that the dogs are actually shot when they reach a certain age 

The only reason I can see for allowing this blood sport to continue for so long, is that is was supported by the aristocracy, and largely a sport of the rich.


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## PsyKoViggy (Mar 4, 2008)

garryd said:


> i dont think you should ever kill anything unless you intend to eat it


I agree with that, 100%, but i also think hunting is a lot fairer and kinder than farming, as long as it is done on a personal level, so you shoot one animal for your meal. Animals on farms never have the chance to hide, run, fly or swim away, they're fate is settled the moment they are born, as is their quality and length of life.

Hunting 'pests' is a massive pet hate of mine though, who are you to say which species deserves to eat and which doesn't. Especially when you get so much food together in one place and don't allow it any way of escapeing. That's like putting a chocolate cake in a childs bedroom and expecting it to still be there and in one peice after a week.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

It is a very emotive subject. 

For me, working with animals, it would be like eating my workmates  My heart breaks when I see animals going off for slaughter. In some cases they are not killed instantly, and thrash on the hooks. The looks on their face as they wait in line to be slaughtered, just breaks my heart.

I forced myself to watch a programme recently on slaughterhouses, and I cannot put into words how upsetting it was.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Nina Cole said:


> A lot of people are unaware that the dogs are actually shot when they reach a certain age
> 
> .


That is a sweeping statement Nina - I dont believe for one minute that every hunt in the country shot their dogs after their working lives were over.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Jo, I can only speak from the information I have and the film I saw at a anti fox hunting meet.

I also attended the Herts County Show a few years back, helping the Dog's Trust with their collection tins, and wandered over to the hunt tent. It was still legal then, and a bitch was feeding her pups. 

Children were gathered round saying how lovely the puppies were. I just stood for a moment listening to this old boy in his regalia, and when he had finished, I asked at what age the dogs were shot. He turned the air blue with his profanities and all in front of these young children. 

I can only tell you what I saw and the information I have been given. However, some of the saboteurs had a lot to answer for, so blame on both sides. However, they were handy with their riding crops!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Jo P said:


> That is a sweeping statement Nina - I dont believe for one minute that every hunt in the country shot their dogs after their working lives were over.


quite right some of them are kept as broods some as stud and some retire to the homes of the 'aristocracy'!!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Nina Cole said:


> Jo, I can only speak from the information I have and the film I saw at a anti fox hunting meet.
> 
> I also attended the Herts County Show a few years back, helping the Dog's Trust with their collection tins, and wandered over to the hunt tent. It was still legal then, and a bitch was feeding her pups.
> 
> ...


I am sorry Nina but the film you would have seen would have been what THEY wanted you to see. And I think he would have been upset at being posed a question like that the hounds are all very well looked after and with favourites throughout the pack. They are fed well, kept in scrupulous conditions and exercised daily alot more than can be said for a lot of pet dogs.

As I have said once before I grew up in hunt kennels so know what goes on behind closed doors, and it is not what the anti-hunt want you to think.

Now foxes have to suffer farmers with a poor shot, or traps or snares they are also the biggest carrier of disease.

And as for the riders being handy with their crops the saboteurs were also pretty handy with their fists.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

i dont buy for one minute that fox hunting is the same as lets say ratting !
For me fox hunting is no different than badgar baiting ,its all the same outcome


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I totally respect your view Tashi, but I cannot believe that every hunt was beyond reproach.

I think that the majority of people are glad to see this barbaric blood sport outlawed, and my husband actually went on a few hunts and saw first hand what they were capable of. As I said previously however, there was blame on both sides, so we can agree there .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i'm another who is against hunting i think its barbaric & i think the onus should be on farmers to protect their livestock rather than trying to wipe out all our native predators, they also think theres to many rabbits maybe if they left the foxes alone nature would balance itself out like it always does.

the fox hounds & beagles are shot when they are no longer useful, we use to know of someone who worked for a hunt & he was very open about the fact. 

its the same throughout the world man just wont share this planet, particularly with the predators!


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Well said Nouska.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> the fox hounds & beagles are shot when they are no longer useful, we use to know of someone who worked for a hunt & he was very open about the fact.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> this is not true in all cases! some are rehomed not all killed


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

At one time brown bears and wolves roamed the land - why dont we have a reintroduction programme for them??

Has there ever been a referendum to see what 'the majority' think re - hunting?? I dont think so...........

And just as a question - and I'm in no-way having a pop at anyone - its just something that I puzzle over from time to time - why do people feel the need to 'announce' what they are???? I'm a vegetarian, I'm a vegan, I'm a this or a that - I never feel the need to announce myself as a meat eater so is this a ploy to make those of us who eat meat feel somehow inferior?? Someone on here has a sig that says Meat is Murder with a piccy of a lamb - I really really want to get a piccy of a lamb and put Meat is MMMMMMmmmmmmmm


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

Jo P said:


> At one time brown bears and wolves roamed the land - why dont we have a reintroduction programme for them??
> 
> Has there ever been a referendum to see what 'the majority' think re - hunting?? I dont think so...........
> 
> And just as a question - and I'm in no-way having a pop at anyone - its just something that I puzzle over from time to time - why do people feel the need to 'announce' what they are???? I'm a vegetarian, I'm a vegan, I'm a this or a that - I never feel the need to announce myself as a meat eater so is this a ploy to make those of us who eat meat feel somehow inferior?? Someone on here has a sig that says Meat is Murder with a piccy of a lamb - I really really want to get a piccy of a lamb and put Meat is MMMMMMmmmmmmmm


totally agreed, lamb is mint sauces yum yum


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Jo P said:


> At one time brown bears and wolves roamed the land - why dont we have a reintroduction programme for them??
> 
> Has there ever been a referendum to see what 'the majority' think re - hunting?? I dont think so...........
> 
> And just as a question - and I'm in no-way having a pop at anyone - its just something that I puzzle over from time to time - why do people feel the need to 'announce' what they are???? I'm a vegetarian, I'm a vegan, I'm a this or a that - I never feel the need to announce myself as a meat eater so is this a ploy to make those of us who eat meat feel somehow inferior?? Someone on here has a sig that says Meat is Murder with a piccy of a lamb - I really really want to get a piccy of a lamb and put Meat is MMMMMMmmmmmmmm


well said Jo after all not only did I grow up in Hunt Kennels I then lived on a farm where we had lambs and calves for meat - so I guess I need to watch my back LOL


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

My hubby comes from a farm,
Foxes do an untold amount of damage to livestock,I'm proud to say we have always gone out with the hunts and will continue to do so. 

When you have 50 young baby turkey's or chickens and you wake up the following morning and find the whole lot slaughtered and just one missing it's devastating.
Foxes are vermin.
More damage is done by laying traps or by shooting them,what if you don't kill it outright it dies an awful long and painful death!

Again this poxy government interfers into peoples lives don't they have more important things to be addressing such as fuel prices,immigration etc....


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> My hubby comes from a farm,
> Foxes do an untold amount of damage to livestock,I'm proud to say we have always gone out with the hunts and will continue to do so.
> 
> When you have 50 young baby turkey's or chickens and you wake up the following morning and find the whole lot slaughtered and just one missing it's devastating.
> ...


once again i agree, why is there so many of us have the same opinion but nothing is done its a total shame


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

The difference is when you are country born and bred and lived amongst these animals and seen the damage that they do not only to livestock but also to our beloved pet dogs with their mange which they only have to rub on a tree and then the dog walk past later on and you have an outbreak of mange on your hands!!!

I was talking today to a Met Police Dog Handler and he was saying that foxes are really becoming a problem in towns now when on patrol the other night there was a fox in somebodys garden chewing on the saddle of the youngsters bike and then spraying on it - imagine the germs that can pass on to children and they complain about dogs!!!!

We all have our own views on Fox Hunting but some push their point more than most and these are the threads that get really heated because of that.


----------



## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> My hubby comes from a farm,
> Foxes do an untold amount of damage to livestock,I'm proud to say we have always gone out with the hunts and will continue to do so.
> 
> When you have 50 young baby turkey's or chickens and you wake up the following morning and find the whole lot slaughtered and just one missing it's devastating.
> ...


Whilst I can agree with you that foxes do huge amounts of damage to livestock and that there is a need to keep their numbers down, I could never be proud to take part in anything that ended in an animal being ripped apart by other animals. What's the difference between breeding and training dogs to rip a fox to pieces, and breeding and training dogs to rip each other to shreds in a dog fight?


----------



## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> Whilst I can agree with you that foxes do huge amounts of damage to livestock and that there is a need to keep their numbers down, I could never be proud to take part in anything that ended in an animal being ripped apart by other animals. What's the difference between breeding and training dogs to rip a fox to pieces, and breeding and training dogs to rip each other to shreds in a dog fight?


One big difference I am afraid foxes are vermin.


----------



## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

tashi said:


> One big difference I am afraid foxes are vermin.


But still animals, tashi. Even vermin don't deserve to die like that.


----------



## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> But still animals, tashi. Even vermin don't deserve to die like that.


I am not going to be drawn into this debate as hunting was what put food on the table and clothes on my back and is now doing the same for both my brother and brother in law, so perhaps I see it from a different angle to the rest of you.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

tashi said:


> I am not going to be drawn into this debate as hunting was what put food on the table and clothes on my back and is now doing the same for both my brother and brother in law, so perhaps I see it from a different angle to the rest of you.


i dont like hunting tashi but thats just my personal opinion, its not goin on facts! i know it puts food on the table, keeps fox numbers down ect ect so i find it hard to see thats its totally bad, it serves a purpose n i think it shouldnt have been banned,,,,,,


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

tashi said:


> I am not going to be drawn into this debate as hunting was what put food on the table and clothes on my back and is now doing the same for both my brother and brother in law, so perhaps I see it from a different angle to the rest of you.


I understand what you mean, tashi - but presumably now its drag hunting that provides for your brother and brother in law, so they are still making a living without a fox being ripped to shreds.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> I understand what you mean, tashi - but presumably now its drag hunting that provides for your brother and brother in law, so they are still making a living without a fox being ripped to shreds.


In one simple word 'NO!'


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

silent_dreamer85 said:


> I have been fox hunting twice when i was younger, the hunt caught nothing both times this posh twits as magik so kindly refered to us as mainly just use it as a outing for the horse and is very good training, that is what most go out for not the killing of foxes


Replying here quickly as this is my experience.

I also think it's a shame to ban a tradition of this sort when a small % of foxes die this way it is another loss to British culture. I have lived in a place where the prince hunted and experienced 'the snobs' - these people paint a terrible picture of the other people who just do it to enjoy a good ride.
I now live in Ireland where it is still legal to hunt with dogs so anyone with the money could come here if they wanted. The farmers support it and are often paid good money to build jumps into their land. It is a real variety of people who hunt and the majority are very average locals.
I ride the course alone - I do not hunt personally as I don't like killing but it's a fact of life sadly.
Plus I lived in London and had a family of foxes in my garden and tried to save them all from a very slow sad death of mange - my grandma who lived where a very famous hunt takes place said she never saw as many foxes in the country as she did in my suburban garden.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

tashi said:


> The difference is when you are country born and bred and lived amongst these animals and seen the damage that they do not only to livestock but also to our beloved pet dogs with their mange which they only have to rub on a tree and then the dog walk past later on and you have an outbreak of mange on your hands!!!
> 
> I was talking today to a Met Police Dog Handler and he was saying that foxes are really becoming a problem in towns now when on patrol the other night there was a fox in somebodys garden chewing on the saddle of the youngsters bike and then spraying on it - imagine the germs that can pass on to children and they complain about dogs!!!!
> 
> We all have our own views on Fox Hunting but some push their point more than most and these are the threads that get really heated because of that.


Another late opinion - the foxes in my garden ended up coming into our house through the cat flap!!!!
Lucky for me I don't have dogs as the mange doesn't spread to cats - if it had done???


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

tashi said:


> I am not going to be drawn into this debate as hunting was what put food on the table and clothes on my back and is now doing the same for both my brother and brother in law, so perhaps I see it from a different angle to the rest of you.


Tashi, I was unaware that people actually eat foxes, so cannot see the validity of your argument there!

Jo, the reason I said I was a vegetarian, was that I felt it was valid to the discussion. I also stated that I have no problem with animals being killed to eat!

Tashi has personal experience of the hunt, and stated so - a valid point to make.

The word 'vermin', is often used by the hunt as an attempt to justify their activities. But the truth is that foxes keep down the rabbit and vole population which cause damage to framers crops. Scientific information also suggests that foxes will often scavenge on lamb carcasses.

Damage caused by the hunt is a far greater risk to livestock and crops than by foxes!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Nina Cole said:


> Tashi, I was unaware that people actually eat foxes, so cannot see the validity of your argument there!
> 
> Jo, the reason I said I was a vegetarian, was that I felt it was valid to the discussion. I also stated that I have no problem with animals being killed to eat!
> 
> ...


If I ate foxes I guess I must have worn a fox fur thong as well  and they also 'scavenge' on flocks of live sheep and lambs and in our case also took out a couple of welsh mountain pony foals. They are VERMIN .


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

tashi said:


> If I ate foxes I guess I must have worn a fox fur thong as well  and they also 'scavenge' on flocks of live sheep and lambs and in our case also took out a couple of welsh mountain pony foals. They are VERMIN .


Sorry Tashi i gotta disagree for me fox hunting is the same as bull baiting,badger baiting etc etc the outcome is the same
When a group of people get excited by puting on their sunday best and congragate to chase some poor animal across feilds with dogs! theres something that dont sit right there with me!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Nina what does being vegetarian have to do with fox hunting And I'm not trying to be inflammatory - i just dont see how the two are conected.

You may think from my responses on this thread that I am pro hunting - you'd be wrong - I'm pro-choice


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Nina what does being vegetarian have to do with fox hunting And I'm not trying to be inflammatory - i just dont see how the two are conected.
> 
> You may think from my responses on this thread that I am pro hunting - you'd be wrong - I'm pro-choice


yeah cause i eat meat and i am against fox hunting


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

garryd said:


> Sorry Tashi i gotta disagree for me fox hunting is the same as bull baiting,badger baiting etc etc the outcome is the same
> When a group of people get excited by puting on their sunday best and congragate to chase some poor animal across feilds with dogs! theres something that dont sit right there with me!


You have your views I have mine so lets just beg to differ - end of story you wont change me on that. badger baiting, dog fighting, bull fighting etc are all in another league and cannot be likened to fox hunting.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Jo, being a vegetarian obviously makes me aware of animal welfare. I do sometimes get pillared for being a veggie, and a lot of sarcastic remarks from meat eaters, assuming that I stand in Sainsbury's handing out leaflets at the steak counter  

This is such an emotive subject and of course we all have our points of view. I also believe in choice if it does not involve killing! Fox hunting was a blood sport. They were not killed to eat, but for the pleasure of seeing an animal that was hunted to exhaustion, before being torn to threads. 

It has been some time now since the ban, yet hunts continue, only this time peaceably. I have spoken to farmers who have had their crops trashed by the hunt. Seen reports of dogs torn to shreds (including one where a little Yorkie died in front of their elderly owner, who was helpless to stop the marauding pack). Obviously cannot put fault on the dogs! This resulted in the hunt being banned in Ashridge.

Discussions will continue, probably heated, but at the end of the day, sense has prevailed and the killing has stopped. Thank God.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Your post would make it sound like because I eat meat that I'm unaware of animal welfare issues - or uninvolved with them That is untrue. Foxes were not hunted for food that is true, no one has ever said they were, they were hunted to control numbers and to stop the mindless killing of livestock.

All the points you make in your post I could counter from a pro-hunting point of view - but I wont cos you'll still believe the anti literature and I wont


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

tashi said:


> You have your views I have mine so lets just beg to differ - end of story you wont change me on that. badger baiting, dog fighting, bull fighting etc are all in another league and cannot be likened to fox hunting.


how can you say that Julie i don't care how you sugar coat it,its still is the use of an animal for human sport at the expense of its life if it was vermin,which it ain't,then shoot it,why chase it with a pack of dogs and on horse back!?


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I totally agree with Garry on this one, but lets not get personal. 

Lets just agree to disagree on this one  Whatever thoughts we may have. Fox hunting is now banned.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> But still animals, tashi. Even vermin don't deserve to die like that.


How do they deserve to die then by a badly aimed shot from a farmer so the death is long and painful?



garryd said:


> Sorry Tashi i gotta disagree for me fox hunting is the same as bull baiting,badger baiting etc etc the outcome is the same
> When a group of people get excited by puting on their sunday best and congragate to chase some poor animal across feilds with dogs! theres something that dont sit right there with me!


Totally different,badgers are also protected.



Nina Cole said:


> Jo, being a vegetarian obviously makes me aware of animal welfare. I do sometimes get pillared for being a veggie, and a lot of sarcastic remarks from meat eaters, assuming that I stand in Sainsbury's handing out leaflets at the steak counter
> 
> This is such an emotive subject and of course we all have our points of view. I also believe in choice if it does not involve killing! Fox hunting was a blood sport. They were not killed to eat, but for the pleasure of seeing an animal that was hunted to exhaustion, before being torn to threads.
> 
> ...


Do you really believe the above quote ? The killing has stopped,has it really?



Nina Cole said:


> I totally agree with Garry on this one, but lets not get personal.
> 
> Lets just agree to disagree on this one  Whatever thoughts we may have. Fox hunting is now banned.


Yes it's banned but it still continues,dog fighting is banned it's still happening,badger baiting is banned it still goes on.

I'm certainly not niave enough to believe even though these activities are banned that the killing has stopped.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

It has not stopped.......


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

I went 3 times,they had a few hares,it was something i wanted to try,not to see any killing but just for the ride. i did but i wont be doing it again.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Totally different,badgers are also protected.
> 
> .


was it such a bad comparison sally!?
What i was trying to say its just as bad!


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

garryd said:


> was it such a bad comparison sally!?
> What i was trying to say its just as bad!


I don't see the relavance,badgers don't go around slaughtering livestock.

Have you ever been on a hunt Garry?
Infact those that hold strong views against fox hunting have any of you ever been on a hunt?


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> I don't see the relavance,badgers don't go around slaughtering livestock.
> 
> Have you ever been on a hunt Garry?
> Infact those that hold strong views against fox hunting have any of you ever been on a hunt?


Have you Sallyanne and just out of curiousity do you support bull fighting?


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I don't see the relavance,badgers don't go around slaughtering livestock.
> 
> Have you ever been on a hunt Garry?
> Infact those that hold strong views against fox hunting have any of you ever been on a hunt?


No i haven't,but my parents live out in the sticks over looking the malvern hills and the hunt used to go through my parents bottom Field,and i used to watch all these high and mighty types creaming their knickers at the thought of chasing some a poor animal and then they would get off on watching their pack of hounds rip it to shreds! 
If its just killing vermin then why does it take 30 people on horse back to do it!?
Like i said i don't care how you sugar coat it,its still is, the use of an animal for human sport at the expense of its life! if it was vermin,which it ain't,then shoot it,why chase it with a pack of dogs and on horse back!?
Answer me that any of you!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

When people shoot Garry they are not always a good shot - hence the fox will die a slow, painful death - often weeks later after getting infections etc etc. How did you know they were high and mighty types?? Did you actually speak to them?? They could have been ordinary folks ya know - the days when the hunt was exclusive to the hooray henrys ended years ago.
I've never seen hunting as a sport - I've always seen it as a way to cull foxes


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

This is going to be my last words on this thread

but I have NEVER considered myself to be high and mighty and when I said about putting food on the table it was my parent's jobs and they were paid to look after the hounds and the horses!!!!

I am afraid it will never be agreed upon and a lot of you continue to be mis-informed.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Have you Sallyanne and just out of curiousity do you support bull fighting?


Bull fighting  Again I don't see the relavance.

And no I don't support Bull fighting


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

garryd said:


> No i haven't,but my parents live out in the sticks over looking the malvern hills and the hunt used to go through my parents bottom Field,and i used to watch all these high and mighty types creaming their knickers at the thought of chasing some a poor animal and then they would get off on watching their pack of hounds rip it to shreds!
> If its just killing vermin then why does it take 30 people on horse back to do it!?
> Like i said i don't care how you sugar coat it,its still is, the use of an animal for human sport at the expense of its life! if it was vermin,which it ain't,then shoot it,why chase it with a pack of dogs and on horse back!?
> Answer me that any of you!


Just like i thought nobody got any thing to say about my point above!
And for the record Julie i aint miss informed as i have lived where fox huntings gone on for most of my adult life!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

garryd said:


> Just like i thought nobody got any thing to say about my point above!
> And for the record Julie i aint miss informed as i have lived where fox huntings gone on for most of my adult life!


i answered your post Garry cant you see it????????????????


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

i see a video of a fox hunt...the vixen ran down her hole to grab her babys...they drove her out and then let the hounds rip her to shreds...they then proseeded to dig her hole and got her babys....showed them to the camara wiv their slimey faces grinning from ear to ear and threw them cubs to the hounds.... why didnt they kill them humainly??? them cubs was only ild say 3 weeks old tops.

its sick plain and simple.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

My view of this is I think it is wrong. I think setting one animal on another for sport or entertainment is cruel. Only my Opinion of course


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Jo P said:


> i answered your post Garry cant you see it????????????????


no you never jo 
let me spell it out again,

If its just killing vermin then why does it take 30 people on horse back to do it!????????
Like i said i don't care how you sugar coat it,its still is, the use of an animal for human sport at the expense of its life! ,if it is vermin!why chase it with a pack of dogs and on horse back!?????
Answer please jo!?????


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Jo P said:


> When people shoot Garry they are not always a good shot - hence the fox will die a slow, painful death - often weeks later after getting infections etc etc. How did you know they were high and mighty types?? Did you actually speak to them?? They could have been ordinary folks ya know - the days when the hunt was exclusive to the hooray henrys ended years ago.
> I've never seen hunting as a sport - I've always seen it as a way to cull foxes


I answered it here.......


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Jo P said:


> I answered it here.......


no you never your being evasive!
I asked why does it take 30 people on horse back with a pack of dogs to kill one animal running for its life?????
If its just killing vermin then why does it take 30 people on horse back to do it!????????
Surely theres a much qwicker way with less effort????

Anwer those questions!


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

garryd said:


> no you never your being evasive!
> I asked why does it take 30 people on horse back with a pack of dogs to kill one animal running for its life?????
> If its just killing vermin then why does it take 30 people on horse back to do it!????????
> Surely theres a much qwicker way with less effort????
> ...


no striate answers yet???


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

garryd said:


> no striate answers yet???


Give them time Garry they need to think of something!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

tashi said:


> This is going to be my last words on this thread
> 
> but I have NEVER considered myself to be high and mighty and when I said about putting food on the table it was my parent's jobs and they were paid to look after the hounds and the horses!!!!
> 
> I am afraid it will never be agreed upon and a lot of you continue to be mis-informed.


.......................................


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

garryd said:


> no you never your being evasive!
> I asked why does it take 30 people on horse back with a pack of dogs to kill one animal running for its life?????
> If its just killing vermin then why does it take 30 people on horse back to do it!????????
> Surely theres a much qwicker way with less effort????
> ...


i cant understand why noone can give garry a straight answer  its a simple question.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> Well Loe, It could just be they want to make sure the job in hand is done quickly & effectively.


What a great answer!Thats why they need 30 people on horse back and 20 dogs to kill one fox!
A bit OTT one would say!
What POPPYCOCK !


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Please can all posters remember what this thread it entitled

HUNTING!!! WHATS YOUR VIEWS


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> Well Loe, It could just be they want to make sure the job in hand is done quickly & effectively.


Plus it's good exercise for the hounds and the horses,they don't just pick up the scent of one fox they pick up a few.

If the fox gives the hounds a good run alot of the hunts will let the fox go.

I don't have a problem with fox hunting either,one of the hunts used to go over my father in laws land.

So what's the alternative?
Shoot them,Poison them,so they can die slow painful deaths.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Plus it's good exercise for the hounds and the horses,they don't just pick up the scent of one fox they pick up a few.
> 
> If the fox gives the hounds a good run alot of the hunts will let the fox go.
> 
> ...


u hunters or ex hunters or others who agree wiv hunting all say hunting is to kill foxes coz their caursing havok rite,, and them getting ripped to bits is better then being shot from afar and maybe dying a slow death...

can i ask u hunters, ex hunters or other that if u can or could catch the foxes in another humain way would u rather shoot em point blank or let the dogs rip em to shreds???


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Plus it's good exercise for the hounds and the horses,they don't just pick up the scent of one fox they pick up a few.
> 
> If the fox gives the hounds a good run alot of the hunts will let the fox go.
> 
> ...


i would rather be shot in the head than chased accross fields then my legs and head ripped off by a pack of savage dogs! 
Be real.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

garryd said:


> no striate answers yet???


No I've been watching The Apprentice

The straight answer is this Garry - quite often there might be more than 30 people and more than 20 dogs - they did the job effectively - full stop. If that answer is evasive sorry its what I think


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> u hunters or ex hunters or others who agree wiv hunting all say hunting is to kill foxes coz their caursing havok rite,, and them getting ripped to bits is better then being shot from afar and maybe dying a slow death...
> 
> can i ask u hunters, ex hunters or other that if u can or could catch the foxes in another humain way would u rather shoot em point blank or let the dogs rip em to shreds???


Can u answer my question quoted


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Jo P said:


> No I've been watching The Apprentice
> 
> The straight answer is this Garry - quite often there might be more than 30 people and more than 20 dogs - they did the job effectively - full stop. If that answer is evasive sorry its what I think


thats ok jo i respect your very proper reply


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> .......................................


Tashi this is not intended solely for you but you answered a post further back re condition hounds are kept in
IT'S A DOG'S LIFE: GRUESOME SCENES AT HUNT KENNELS

It is not difficult to see why people are mis-informed


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> Tashi this is not intended solely for you but you answered a post further back re condition hounds are kept in
> IT'S A DOG'S LIFE: GRUESOME SCENES AT HUNT KENNELS
> 
> It is not difficult to see why people are mis-informed


That is just pure evil  how can we be mis-informed wen we read FACTS like that.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> That is just pure evil  how can we be mis-informed wen we read FACTS like that.


Thats why I posted 
And also although I have no link/ proof. Years ago I bought a ex hunter, beautiful animal, owner was titled Lady who was a Junkie, horse had been stabled and said owner had not been paying upkeep so stables selling horse. Now when I was there I noticed their so called hunting kennels and to say I was appalled was an understatement Dogs, bitches, pregnant bitches and young pups running together in one pen, with 3 bowls of food, trying to fight each other over the dishes SAD


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> Thats why I posted
> And also although I have no link/ proof. Years ago I bought a ex hunter, beautiful animal, owner was titled Lady who was a Junkie, horse had been stabled and said owner had not been paying upkeep so stables selling horse. Now when I was there I noticed their so called hunting kennels and to say I was appalled was an understatement Dogs, bitches, pregnant bitches and young pups running together in one pen, with 3 bowls of food, trying to fight each other over the dishes SAD


lol i know thats why u posted it, i was just saying 

 it really is evil all round aint it. 

ive found some vids of huntings ect and its just pure evil.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Maybe if i could ride a horse i would enjoy it


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

garryd said:


> Maybe if i could ride a horse i would enjoy it


ok who have u been talking to 

and if ur serious then u can piss clean off


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

garryd said:


> Maybe if i could ride a horse i would enjoy it


Have you had your wrists slapped


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> Have you had your wrists slapped


lol  ....


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> ok who have u been talking to
> 
> and if ur serious then u can piss clean off


hahhaha



clueless said:


> Have you had your wrists slapped


are you offering ya self to me again


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

ive got a couple of saddles here,could give you a lesson or two...thats got me thinking,totally off thread though but anyone see billie pipers diary of a call girl the other nightshe had a old perv that liked a bit of that!


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

garryd said:


> hahhaha
> 
> are you offering ya self to me again


You wish you could not handle my ankles let alone a horse with swollen wrists


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> ive got a couple of saddles here,could give you a lesson or two...thats got me thinking,totally off thread though but anyone see billie pipers diary of a call girl the other nightshe had a old perv that liked a bit of that!


Oh too much information for me


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> You wish you could not handle my ankles let alone a horse with swollen wrists


pmsl now thats a good un


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> pmsl now thats a good un


I was being serious Haha


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> I was being serious Haha


lmfao


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> lmfao


think garryd away looking for anti inflammatory tablets


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> You wish you could not handle my ankles let alone a horse with swollen wrists


very good


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> think garryd away looking for anti inflammatory tablets


hahaha he will need the box


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> hahaha he will need the box


thanks loe and you would know


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

garryd said:


> thanks loe and you would know


shurrop  haha cheek.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

anyways back to the hunting issues 
take alooky at this...wat do u see????

Irish Council Against Blood Sports - Working For Ireland's Wildlife


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> anyways back to the hunting issues
> take alooky at this...wat do u see????
> 
> Irish Council Against Blood Sports - Working For Ireland's Wildlife


OMG Sorry Eolabeo, I saw pic of poor bull and could not looky any furtherBut can imagine what the vids would be like, pure cruelty


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

The way I see it is Foxes may attack chickens and lambs, but that is part of their nature. Farmers should protect their animals, not let hunts on their land to attack the foxes. I also read somewhere that an arguement re foxes killing lambs and there was a good reply---- Foxes get blamed for killing lambs, but foxes tend to take finds back to their den , so who knows if the foxes had killed them or not, could already have been dead


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> anyways back to the hunting issues
> take alooky at this...wat do u see????
> 
> Irish Council Against Blood Sports - Working For Ireland's Wildlife


I've just watched this because I am living in Ireland - I must say this is not my personal experience of a hunt although I have never ridden on one.
I know quite a few people who are involved in the hunt and would never mind me questioning them honestly as to their practices and I am going to.
My uncle was quite happy to tell me about his friend that killed the greyhounds when they were past it  he does not condone this and is an animal lover he said it as fact as unfortunately it often is.
The problem here is Ireland is very old school and there's a lot of farmers - I can't see them banning any of these practices for a long time unless say europe made them. There is a referendum about the Lisbon Treaty which would give Europe overall power on Irish law and I can't see a hope in hell of Ireland going for that! 
You have to remember that abortion is still illegal here and not really for pro-life reasons more so because it's a very old-school catholic country overall.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> I've just watched this because I am living in Ireland - I must say this is not my personal experience of a hunt although I have never ridden on one.
> I know quite a few people who are involved in the hunt and would never mind me questioning them honestly as to their practices and I am going to.
> My uncle was quite happy to tell me about his friend that killed the greyhounds when they were past it  he does not condone this and is an animal lover he said it as fact as unfortunately it often is.
> The problem here is Ireland is very old school and there's a lot of farmers - I can't see them banning any of these practices for a long time unless say europe made them. There is a referendum about the Lisbon Treaty which would give Europe overall power on Irish law and I can't see a hope in hell of Ireland going for that!
> You have to remember that abortion is still illegal here and not really for pro-life reasons more so because it's a very old-school catholic country overall.


do u agree wiv the hunting in ireland ??? would u like to see it ban there??


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

clueless said:


> The way I see it is Foxes may attack chickens and lambs, but that is part of their nature. Farmers should protect their animals, not let hunts on their land to attack the foxes. I also read somewhere that an arguement re foxes killing lambs and there was a good reply---- Foxes get blamed for killing lambs, but foxes tend to take finds back to their den , so who knows if the foxes had killed them or not, could already have been dead


I wouldn't imagine most farmers over here see it as any form of pest control - if they wanted them culled they would shoot, trap or poison them.
They do it because they don't see any wrong in it - a lot are paid to allow hunts over their land and not the other way round. My uncle got paid to put proper jumps in the hedges at the bottom of his fields. 
The head hunts people or those that participate are often friends and neighbours in the equestrian industry and that is big money over here.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Sorry I've not been joining in folks - been at work all day again. I've read through the posts again and the pro-hunters have not come up with one reason why hunting is justified. They've come up with lots of excuses to justify their actions, but each and every one of their excuses can be refuted by reasoned argument. For example:

Excuse #1 - hunting is necessary because foxes are vermn and need to be controlled. Answer - well, then, control them in a more humane way than ripping them to shreds.

Excuse #2 - being ripped to shreds is better than being shot by a bad marksman and dying a lingering death. Answer - let the farmer employ a decent marksman to rid himself of the foxes, rather than employing a bad marksman, or paying a hunt to rip them to shreds.

Excuse #3 - only city dwellers are against hunting because they don't understand the country way of life. Answser - this is just not true. Many country dwellers are against hunting.

Excuse #4 - it gives the horses good exercise. Answer - you can ride a horse across country and jump over hedges etc without ripping an animal to shreds at the end of it.

Excuse # 5 - it's a tradition, a way of life. Answer - so it bullfighting, bear-baiting, so was dog fighting - it still doesn't make it right.

Excuse #6 - it's a livelihood. Answer - so was sending children down the mines. Times change and we change with them, ending barbaric practices on the way. If the hunt is so necessary, then begin draghunting instead.

As I've said before, I still cannot understand how animal lovers can justify to themselves that watching an animal being ripped to shreds is fun.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> The way I see it is Foxes may attack chickens and lambs, but that is part of their nature. Farmers should protect their animals, not let hunts on their land to attack the foxes. I also read somewhere that an arguement re foxes killing lambs and there was a good reply---- Foxes get blamed for killing lambs, but foxes tend to take finds back to their den , so who knows if the foxes had killed them or not, could already have been dead


The thing is rite...alot of hunters on this thread..or ex hunters or people that agree wiv hunting said... its better the fox gets ripped apart then to take a bad shot from a farmer and suffer for days ... but that vid proved they can get them wivout a hunt because the people in this vid dug a fox out the hole and put it in a sack...why didnt they shoot it in the head and be done wiv it?? they let it go in a field for the dogs to rip apart??? why??? they caught the so called vermin so why let it go for the dogs to rip apart???


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Sorry I've not been joining in folks - been at work all day again. I've read through the posts again and the pro-hunters have not come up with one reason why hunting is justified. They've come up with lots of excuses to justify their actions, but each and every one of their excuses can be refuted by reasoned argument. For example:
> 
> Excuse #1 - hunting is necessary because foxes are vermn and need to be controlled. Answer - well, then, control them in a more humane way than ripping them to shreds.
> 
> ...


this is one brilliant post.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> I wouldn't imagine most farmers over here see it as any form of pest control - if they wanted them culled they would shoot, trap or poison them.
> They do it because they don't see any wrong in it - a lot are paid to allow hunts over their land and not the other way round. My uncle got paid to put proper jumps in the hedges at the bottom of his fields.
> The head hunts people or those that participate are often friends and neighbours in the equestrian industry and that is big money over here.


So you think its more to do with money its late


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> do u agree wiv the hunting in ireland ??? would u like to see it ban there??


No - I would not like to see it banned but I am not pro-hunt - I hate seeing anything killed - I have seen bad treatment of horses by some of these people.
However like someone else said I am pro-choice - it is a culture and tradition (not a nice one) and I am fed up of seeing both the UK and Ireland's heritage being slowly eaten away at. 
The foxes would unfortunately be killed anyway and there is no humane way of killing.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> this is one brilliant post.


Thanks!


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> No - I would not like to see it banned but I am not pro-hunt - I hate seeing anything killed - I have seen bad treatment of horses by some of these people.
> However like someone else said I am pro-choice - it is a culture and tradition (not a nice one) and I am fed up of seeing both the UK and Ireland's heritage being slowly eaten away at.
> The foxes would unfortunately be killed anyway and there is no humane way of killing.


yes there is a humane way of doing it... my vid proved they can dig em out and shoot em in the head...lets face it...hunts can take hours..digging a fox out its hole and shooting it in the head will take alot less time then hunting would


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Thanks!


you are very welcome


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

clueless said:


> So you think its more to do with money its late


VERY, VERY much so...
The farmers are not all big rich people with lots of land like you may imagine some are very humble - my uncle is quite small time - mostly all free range, he breeds the odd racehorse and keeps some of his field clear for nature reserves which he's also paid to do.
Now the hunting with dogs is banned in the UK it is a big money maker just over the water


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> yes there is a humane way of doing it... my vid proved they can dig em out and shoot em in the head...lets face it...hunts can take hours..digging a fox out its hole and shooting it in the head will take alot less time then hunting would


And it is not only the foxes who suffer, there is other wildlife in the area where horses, horsemen/women and hounds are thundering and shouting over ground


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> VERY, VERY much so...
> The farmers are not all big rich people with lots of land like you may imagine some are very humble - my uncle is quite small time - mostly all free range, he breeds the odd racehorse and keeps some of his field clear for nature reserves which he's also paid to do.
> Now the hunting with dogs is banned in the UK it is a big money maker just over the water


Okay Thanks for reply


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> yes there is a humane way of doing it... my vid proved they can dig em out and shoot em in the head...lets face it...hunts can take hours..digging a fox out its hole and shooting it in the head will take alot less time then hunting would


I think I am still forming my opinions - I also agree with spellweavers points - a very valid arguement. On my uncles land he has no sheep - chickens but never heard of a fox taking one, just the neighbours dogs.
Think it is just a rather unpleasant choice of sport for some and as I have said a way of life and now a money maker.
I am going to find out an awful lot more for myself of what really happens as although that video is clear evidence of some sick practices - I think it does contain worst examples.
The last hunt I saw come through - was contacting different people on mobiles to find out where foxes had been spotted they were not setting them up in that way.
I am not giving or for or against arguement - just saying how I've seen it here.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

clueless said:


> And it is not only the foxes who suffer, there is other wildlife in the area where horses, horsemen/women and hounds are thundering and shouting over ground


That would imply it's not ok to ride a horse though wouldn't it?

I ride the course often just without a pack of dogs, horn and have seen foxes and they barely run away because they know I'm not after them.

They are quite clever - ever heard sly as a fox - when the hunt is on - if you go into my uncles wildlife field that the hunt is not allowed through you will often see the cubs playing there. 

I'm only not anti because they do not kill huge amounts of foxes and I can think of other things I'd prefer to put my campaigning efforts into - if that makes sense


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> And it is not only the foxes who suffer, there is other wildlife in the area where horses, horsemen/women and hounds are thundering and shouting over ground


u know they do hunt mink aswell


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> That would imply it's not ok to ride a horse though wouldn't it?
> 
> I ride the course often just without a pack of dogs, horn and have seen foxes and they barely run away because they know I'm not after them.
> 
> ...


ur horse could run over a mole cricket worth 25k at london zoo lol. 

seriously tho its not rite


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

That would imply it's not ok to ride a horse though wouldn't it?


I think there is a big difference between one rider and horse and a field full of Hunters and dogs


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> u know they do hunt mink aswell


They are not kind here - they hunt anything they possibly can - men will be men with guns and a lot of fighting here


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> I think I am still forming my opinions - I also agree with spellweavers points - a very valid arguement. On my uncles land he has no sheep - chickens but never heard of a fox taking one, just the neighbours dogs.
> Think it is just a rather unpleasant choice of sport for some and as I have said a way of life and now a money maker.
> I am going to find out an awful lot more for myself of what really happens as although that video is clear evidence of some sick practices - I think it does contain worst examples.
> The last hunt I saw come through - was contacting different people on mobiles to find out where foxes had been spotted they were not setting them up in that way.
> I am not giving or for or against arguement - just saying how I've seen it here.


im gonna find that vid where they got the vixen out that den and then threw he lil baby cubs to the pack  then tell me u are pro choice


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

clueless said:


> That would imply it's not ok to ride a horse though wouldn't it?
> 
> I think there is a big difference between one rider and horse and a field full of Hunters and dogs


ok then - just checking


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

They are quite clever - ever heard sly as a fox - 

Obviously not fly enough as they do get caught and ripped to shreds


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clueless said:


> That would imply it's not ok to ride a horse though wouldn't it?
> 
> I think there is a big difference between one rider and horse and a field full of Hunters and dogs


agreed.....


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> u know they do hunt mink aswell


I knowSad


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

i have 3 foxes that live a few doors down under a shed..they are beautifull, i also hear them crying 4 o clock in the morning andhave sometimes looked out my window and watched them play on my mums green out her front...one of them is absolutely massive wiv a gorgeous tail...i could watch them for hours...the thort of them getting torn apart is nasty 

i watched one the other nite run in the garden wiv wat looked like a tennis ball in its mouth...donno wat it was tho lol.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> im gonna find that vid where they got the vixen out that den and then threw he lil baby cubs to the pack  then tell me u are pro choice


I've seen it all before - I suppose in my heart it is not what I would do so I am anti it mostly. When I was in London I tried to save 3 cubs that lived under my shed and where infected with mange - even though I was pregnant and every one was giving it don't go near. They ended up in the house - one made it I got a wildlife rescue centre nearby to take him....eventually.
As I said before if I had dogs instead of cats - the mange lies dormant in the grass for years - I would not have been so impressed. 
I do not believe foxes kill cats and if - they are scavengers not hunters - cats would put up far too much of a fight.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a nasty person - It's not in my personality to tell others what they should and shouldn't be doing - mostly.
And in a world full of wrong this is a small one - I'd far prefer to be after the big businesses that still test on animals - or something.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

i watched one the other nite run in the garden wiv wat looked like a tennis ball in its mouth...donno wat it was tho lol.



May have been a stirrup ironJoking LOL Yes I think they are cute, there is one runs about at the back of the hospital I work at, the porters feed it


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

clueless said:


> i watched one the other nite run in the garden wiv wat looked like a tennis ball in its mouth...donno wat it was tho lol.
> 
> May have been a stirrup ironJoking LOL Yes I think they are cute, there is one runs about at the back of the hospital I work at, the porters feed it


You will see more in the city than you ever would in the country - same if you go to Canada these days - you're far more likely to spot an urban bear than one in the wild


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> I've seen it all before - I suppose in my heart it is not what I would do so I am anti it mostly. When I was in London I tried to save 3 cubs that lived under my shed and where infected with mange - even though I was pregnant and every one was giving it don't go near. They ended up in the house - one made it I got a wildlife rescue centre nearby to take him....eventually.
> As I said before if I had dogs instead of cats - the mange lies dormant in the grass for years - I would not have been so impressed.
> I do not believe foxes kill cats and if - they are scavengers not hunters - cats would put up far too much of a fight.
> 
> ...


Hey I do not think you are a nasty person, debates are debates Been there done it here


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clueless said:


> i watched one the other nite run in the garden wiv wat looked like a tennis ball in its mouth...donno wat it was tho lol.
> 
> May have been a stirrup ironJoking LOL Yes I think they are cute, there is one runs about at the back of the hospital I work at, the porters feed it


pmsl haha we wish 


Emstarz said:


> You will see more in the city than you ever would in the country - same if you go to Canada these days - you're far more likely to spot an urban bear than one in the wild


and ur lucky to see a urban fox...so why so much killing in the country 

even if they got them humane traps that they use to catch the feral cats in to catch foxes would be a bonus, least that way they can shoot it in the head outrite wich is betta then being ripped apart aint it


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clueless said:


> Hey I do not think you are a nasty person, debates are debates Been there done it here


i have to admit...ive learnt so much from this forum its unreal, best joining ive ever done


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

I have to ask some questions and get back to you - the thing is I think the pest thing here in the country is an excuse - they're not much of a pest and hunting kills such a small % it could not be seen as effective control.

I will ask why drag hunting is not a suitable alternative for these people.
I know lots of really nice normal people who do this and I will try and see if they can tell me why they think it is an ok thing to do.

Over here I will be considered a nut for it though - very few pet dogs are ever allowed in the house and cats are seen as filthy animals???
They are very, very old fashioned as I said before and probably barely think about what they are doing - it's just something they do - maybe social - I will try and find out though. 

I saw loads where I lived in London - they couple for life you know - we had two families in one place we lived and one in another.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Okay Here is another point I read that foxes dens are filled in night before hunt. Now to me if hunting is a sport of sorts this is really bad sportmanship. Its like tying one boxer to the ropes in a boxing ring and letting the other boxer knock hell out of him


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> i have to admit...ive learnt so much from this forum its unreal, best joining ive ever done


and me...

Oh and I'll ask if they actually bother trapping or shooting them because I've never heard any of my uncle or cousins going out to do this - that's why I don't get the feeling they're a pest


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> I have to ask some questions and get back to you - the thing is I think the pest thing here in the country is an excuse - they're not much of a pest and hunting kills such a small % it could not be seen as effective control.
> 
> I will ask why drag hunting is not a suitable alternative for these people.
> I know lots of really nice normal people who do this and I will try and see if they can tell me why they think it is an ok thing to do.
> ...


Think asking questions from these people is a good idea. Ask them their For and Against Hunting Opinions


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

clueless said:


> Okay Here is another point I read that foxes dens are filled in night before hunt. Now to me if hunting is a sport of sorts this is really bad sportmanship. Its like tying one boxer to the ropes in a boxing ring and letting the other boxer knock hell out of him


I've heard this too - Where the price hunted near Market Harborough I know this was done I could see them in the copse with torches late at night.
Here as I said they contact one another on mobiles about sightings...
I don't think it's done - I'll ask though and tell you truthfully what's said.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> I've heard this too - Where the price hunted near Market Harborough I know this was done I could see them in the copse with torches late at night.
> Here as I said they contact one another on mobiles about sightings...
> I don't think it's done - I'll ask though and tell you truthfully what's said.


Okay Thanks Emstarz would maybe give people more insight to what their morals are


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

clueless said:


> Okay Thanks Emstarz would maybe give people more insight to what their morals are


You've had replied from people who hunt but doesn't really explain the final blood lust does it? 
My uncle is very honest and will have a good idea about it - he will definitely know if these things go on here.

I think some of the den filling is a slightly seperate cruel way of culling cubs too - they bury them alive - this is more the pest control than the hunt - as far as I'm aware.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> You've had replied from people who hunt but doesn't really explain the final blood lust does it?
> My uncle is very honest and will have a good idea about it - he will definitely know if these things go on here.
> 
> I think some of the den filling is a slightly seperate cruel way of culling cubs too - they bury them alive - this is more the pest control than the hunt - as far as I'm aware.


do u agree wiv the carted deer hunt??? that happens there in ireland to dont it?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> You've had replied from people who hunt but doesn't really explain the final blood lust does it?
> My uncle is very honest and will have a good idea about it - he will definitely know if these things go on here.
> 
> I think some of the den filling is a slightly seperate cruel way of culling cubs too - they bury them alive - this is more the pest control than the hunt - as far as I'm aware.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> do u agree wiv deer culling??? that happens there in ireland to dont it?


That is not something I've heard of at all - sure it happens 
No I suppose I don't agree - why would they cull them - are they pests?
Will ask about that too - not seen any deer round here but there is plenty of wild land where they could be.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clueless said:


> Emstarz said:
> 
> 
> > You've had replied from people who hunt but doesn't really explain the final blood lust does it?
> ...


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

clueless said:


> Emstarz said:
> 
> 
> > You've had replied from people who hunt but doesn't really explain the final blood lust does it?
> ...


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> clueless said:
> 
> 
> > g nite clueless ..sleep well
> ...


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> clueless said:
> 
> 
> > me too - will see if I can get some answers/opinions and talk tomorrow
> ...


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Figures for Deer culling in Scotland

http://www.dcs.gov.uk/downloads/AnnualReport2006-07Figures.xls


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Bullfighting is a sport, fox hunting was a so called sport. I honestly cannot see the difference.

As I stated previously, the hunt caused havoc to arable land, and were banned in many places up and down the country including Ashridge, were the little Yorkie was torn to shreds.

Jo, do you honestly believe that it is kinder to hunt them to exhaustion, and have the hounds tear them to shreds, than shoot them? 

They may be the odd one or two foxes that do not get killed outright, but the majority are. 

I also believe in freedom of choice, but not to kill as a sport. How in God's name can that be right?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

as ive said before i dont like hunting but i just wondered everyone who is against...... how many has actually seen a hunt start to finish first hand?????


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

This thread seems to be going around in circles.

Some disagree while others agree with fox hunting,
I am one who agree's with fox hunting,that's my choice,we will keep going out and supporting our hunts.Maybe one day this unenforceable law will be overturned.

My husband has seen the damage foxes do first hand,he did shoot them etc and his father gave permission for the hunt to go accross his land.
Have you seen dead lambs or mutulated sheep and other animals after foxes have attacked them?


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## freckles (May 8, 2008)

I went hunting twice when I lived in the UK, (im not a 'post twit' either) I really enjoyed it and so did my horse, I think its a shame its been banned, so many people have lost their jobs and livelyhoods because of it, but many 'fox lovers' dont think of those. 
people think shooting them is better , but not if they are only wounded (which a high % are, I think its 90%) then they suffer and die, at least with the hounds its quick. 
Wish I could fox hunt here, bl**dy fox had had 15 of my chickens in the last 3weeks, If I had I gun I would shoot it, without a second thought, 

As for bullfighting (as im living in Spain) I dont have a problem with that either, the bulls live a good life for 3-5 years before entering the ring, whereas, a meat bull in the UK has to be slaughtered before its 18 months old.

And for all the antis, if you drink milk, do you know that to get milk, a calf has to be born, if its a male, its killed more or less straight away, or reared for veal, or if its really lucky raised as a stud bull.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I do not think it is a question of giving in at all.

It has been banned now - thank God. Anyone caught killing foxes in this way will receive a hefty fine, and I hope imprisonment. No different from dog fighting, bull fighting bear baiting etc. All are barbaric and the majority agree - hence the ban. End of.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> I do not think it is a question of giving in at all.
> 
> It has been banned now - thank God. Anyone caught killing foxes in this way will receive a hefty fine, and I hope imprisonment. No different from dog fighting, bull fighting bear baiting etc. All are barbaric and the majority agree - hence the ban. End of.


i like the phrase end of....lol..... its not the end of everyone has an opinion so it will never be end of...


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

A case that went to court,
Digging Out :: Exmoor Foxhounds - Tony Wright Guilty

Then overturned 
Countryside Alliance - First hunting conviction thrown out

The Hunting Act is not only a pointless and prejudiced piece of legislation, it is also a very bad law. If the courts cannot be sure what is hunting and what is not how on earth can anyone else?

Based on the above how can this useless law be enforced?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> It will always go round in circles, the anti hunt people will continue to question & bombard their opinions in the hope that any pro hunting people will give in...


And that goes both ways


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

freckles said:


> I went hunting twice when I lived in the UK, (im not a 'post twit' either) I really enjoyed it and so did my horse, I think its a shame its been banned, so many people have lost their jobs and livelyhoods because of it, but many 'fox lovers' dont think of those.
> people think shooting them is better , but not if they are only wounded (which a high % are, I think its 90%) then they suffer and die, at least with the hounds its quick.
> Wish I could fox hunt here, bl**dy fox had had 15 of my chickens in the last 3weeks, If I had I gun I would shoot it, without a second thought,
> 
> ...


Think you are on the defence right away by stating you are not a "post twit" Anyway I do not think drinking milk is in the same league as hunting foxes.
I only have my opinion re the way the fox is hunted, I do not have issues with pro people's opinions/ feelings.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

claire said:


> as ive said before i dont like hunting but i just wondered everyone who is against...... how many has actually seen a hunt start to finish first hand?????


I have not and would not wish too, to me its like standing back and watching a small dog, cat, rabbit etc exhausted and being ripped apart by 20+ other animals.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

claire said:


> i like the phrase end of....lol..... its not the end of everyone has an opinion so it will never be end of...


Very true Maybe a poll on this thread would be a good idea


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clueless said:


> I have not and would not wish too, to me its like standing back and watching a small dog, cat, rabbit etc exhausted and being ripped apart by 20+ other animals.


It's not though because foxes are vermin!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Nina please stop using the phrase - 'the majority' - this issue has never been put to the majority so that statement is not based on fact.

Laws which ban things arent always right ya know - Pitbulls were banned and I didnt agree with that one either


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Nina please stop using the phrase - 'the majority' - this issue has never been put to the majority so that statement is not based on fact.
> 
> Laws which ban things arent always right ya know - Pitbulls were banned and I didnt agree with that one either


Taken from Wilkipedia
MPs of all parties voting for the legislation asserted that hunting caused unnecessary suffering and said that they represented the majority of the public who favoured a ban on hunting with dogs. Their assertion of majority support for the thrust of the legislation seems to have some basis in evidence, a September 2002 survey commissioned by the Daily Telegraph indicated that a majority of people (57%) agreed with the statement that 'hunting with dogs is never acceptable'.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Good Morning all - been for a quick natter with my uncle who is not pro/anti hunting a little like me here in Ireland - it's just something that happens.
He allows jumps on his land because and I quote 'otherwise they trample where they like - breaking my hedges'. 
His best friend is big in the horse world and makes money out of horses for the hunt so he is supportive of him. He says that drag hunting is not a suitable alternative (to many) because it is a set course and does not have the excitement of a real chase.
He does not like to see the foxes killed but is not particularly bothered either - he hasn't a need to cull them on his land and says there are some b*st*rds that have blood lust and not happy unless they get a fox, which is why some people block holes and dig out - he would not allow this on his land and has never been asked or heard of it happening locally.
He thinks most just enjoy the excitement of the chase with dogs and horses and because the farmers know and it's organised - being allowed to ride (mostly) where they like - which is rare.
They do make money from allowing the hunt rather than paying for it. He would not like to see it banned because he believes a lot of beautiful dogs would be put down and people would not be able to keep on the horses. I know that idea has been rubbished by others - but farmers are not sentimental and can't keep animals for the sake of it.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clueless said:


> Taken from Wilkipedia
> MPs of all parties voting for the legislation asserted that hunting caused unnecessary suffering and said that they represented the majority of the public who favoured a ban on hunting with dogs. Their assertion of majority support for the thrust of the legislation seems to have some basis in evidence, a September 2002 survey commissioned by the Daily Telegraph indicated that a majority of people (57%) agreed with the statement that 'hunting with dogs is never acceptable'.


Quote it all,
MPs of all parties voting for the legislation asserted that hunting caused unnecessary suffering and said that they represented the majority of the public who favoured a ban on hunting with dogs. Their assertion of majority support for the thrust of the legislation seems to have some basis in evidence, a September 2002 survey commissioned by the Daily Telegraph indicated that a narrow majority of people (57%) agreed with the statement that 'hunting with dogs is never acceptable'. However, a survey by MORI for the BBC carried out in February 2005 found that there was no majority (47%) of support for the new legislation.

Where you have those against, you will always have those for.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> Good Morning all - been for a quick natter with my uncle who is not pro/anti hunting a little like me here in Ireland - it's just something that happens.
> He allows jumps on his land because and I quote 'otherwise they trample where they like - breaking my hedges'.
> His best friend is big in the horse world and makes money out of horses for the hunt so he is supportive of him. He says that drag hunting is not a suitable alternative (to many) because it is a set course and does not have the excitement of a real chase.
> He does not like to see the foxes killed but is not particularly bothered either - he hasn't a need to cull them on his land and says there are some b*st*rds that have blood lust and not happy unless they get a fox, which is why some people block holes and dig out - he would not allow this on his land and has never been asked or heard of it happening locally.
> ...


Thanks very much for asking. Quite a mixed bag thereThere are a few points 
1 The last part sort of stuck out at me re the future of the dogs ands horses "but farmers are not sentimental and can't keep animals for the sake of it." So is it mostly farmers who attend these hunts?
2. How come drag racing is a set course, and they would not get as much excitement from a real chase, so whats the excitiement watching a fox ripped apart at the end?
3. So blocking holes and digging out is done in his viewpoint, so it is done?
4. He is a farmer and he has never felt the need to cull on his land, so why do other farmers etc if foxes are causing so much destruction as people have said?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Quote it all,
> MPs of all parties voting for the legislation asserted that hunting caused unnecessary suffering and said that they represented the majority of the public who favoured a ban on hunting with dogs. Their assertion of majority support for the thrust of the legislation seems to have some basis in evidence, a September 2002 survey commissioned by the Daily Telegraph indicated that a narrow majority of people (57%) agreed with the statement that 'hunting with dogs is never acceptable'. However, a survey by MORI for the BBC carried out in February 2005 found that there was no majority (47%) of support for the new legislation.
> 
> Where you have those against, you will always have those for.


 A survey by MORI for the BBC carried out in February 2005 found that there was a plurality (47% supporting, 26% opposed) of support for the new legislation, but not an absolute majority Okay Agree


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

clueless said:


> Thanks very much for asking. Quite a mixed bag thereThere are a few points
> 1 The last part sort of stuck out at me re the future of the dogs ands horses "but farmers are not sentimental and can't keep animals for the sake of it." So is it mostly farmers who attend these hunts?
> 2. How come drag racing is a set course, and they would not get as much excitement from a real chase, so whats the excitiement watching a fox ripped apart at the end?
> 3. So blocking holes and digging out is done in his viewpoint, so it is done?
> 4. He is a farmer and he has never felt the need to cull on his land, so why do other farmers etc if foxes are causing so much destruction as people have said?


This may swap a little into my opinion than his but here you go...
1. It is a mixed bag - some hunt people are farmers others are horse riders, office workers, mums, kids etc. Lots of farmers here keep horses and packs of dogs that can be rented out to visiting hunts people - the hunt is a bit of a status thing for some of these - in my opinion!
2. Drag racing is much more organised a quad bike or similar drags something like meat so the dogs can follow it's scent - they have usually pre-arranged where it will go - when riding after a fox they are literally phoning and saying to friends, land owners etc - it's gone that way - can we - which way do we go etc?
3. Yes 
4. Different pests are a problem in different places - he has more problem with the local dogs taking his poultry.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> This may swap a little into my opinion than his but here you go...
> 1. It is a mixed bag - some hunt people are farmers others are horse riders, office workers, mums, kids etc. Lots of farmers here keep horses and packs of dogs that can be rented out to visiting hunts people - the hunt is a bit of a status thing for some of these - in my opinion!
> 2. Drag racing is much more organised a quad bike or similar drags something like meat so the dogs can follow it's scent - they have usually pre-arranged where it will go - when riding after a fox they are literally phoning and saying to friends, land owners etc - it's gone that way - can we - which way do we go etc?
> 3. Yes
> 4. Different pests are a problem in different places - he has more problem with the local dogs taking his poultry.


#

Okay Thanks


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

It was all about animal welfare,the cruelty side of things well i'm sorry but this is worse in my opinion.
Hunt ban 'has caused rise in fox suffering' - Telegraph
The ban on hunting with hounds has increased the suffering of foxes as more are shot and wounded, according to research published this month.

Half of foxes shot with guns are wounded, not killed
The study, which appears in the May issue of Animal Welfare, the journal of the Universities Federation for Animal Welfare, undermines claims by the RSPCA and League Against Cruel Sports that hunting, until it was banned, caused more suffering than shooting.

The study showed that up to 50 per cent of foxes shot with shotguns were wounded, not killed. It also looked at wounding rates under other conditions, using different weapons, ammunition and at different distances and skill levels.

The study was commissioned by the Middle Way Group of MPs in 2002 after shooting was mooted by pro-ban organisations as the "humane" alternative to hunting with dogs. It has only just been peer reviewed and accepted as valid scientific research.

Article continuesadvertisement
Lembit Opik, a Liberal Democrat and co-founder of the group, said: "The research proves conclusively that the pro-ban groups were plain wrong. In many cases guns don't kill the fox outright, leading to large numbers of wounded animals. Many end up dying over hours, days or even weeks. We've long suspected that shooting does not reduce suffering. After all, with dogs it's all or nothing.

''The ban has guaranteed that the time and money invested by the League Against Cruel Sports and the RSPCA has increased animal suffering. We told them this would happen. This is the cost of ignoring that warning."

Peter Luff, a Conservative and co-founder of the group, said: "Anti-hunting MPs were given this information before the Hunting Act came into force, yet they chose to ignore it.

Lady Golding, the Labour peer who is co-chairman of the group, said: "The next Government must look again at the Hunting Act and replace it with genuine animal welfare measures.''


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Fox Hunting - (supportfoxhunting.co.uk)

We have read the views from the anti's now read this one as well


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> It was all about animal welfare,the cruelty side of things well i'm sorry but this is worse in my opinion.
> Hunt ban 'has caused rise in fox suffering' - Telegraph
> The ban on hunting with hounds has increased the suffering of foxes as more are shot and wounded, according to research published this month.
> 
> ...


Interesting link but IMO I still do not feel the need for people to chase a fox for miles on horseback with dogs and then WATCH it being ripped aparta all in the name of Sport.!!! Yes it dies at the end but what a way to go, thats the part that I cannot get my head around


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> Fox Hunting - (supportfoxhunting.co.uk)
> 
> We have read the views from the anti's now read this one as well


Thanks Tashi will have a peek. As I have said I have nothing against people who hunt to exercise horse, have a good day out with fellow riders etc... I just cannot get my head around the way the foxes are culled, I would not watch another small animal being treated like that so why a fox


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

i oppose the laws. I think it's stupid stopping something which only kills the ill or old (who probably carry diseases which could spread to domestic animals) then again this is only my opinion so it's bound to get beat down by everyone else because any minority opinion is not usually welcomed.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> i oppose the laws. I think it's stupid stopping something which only kills the ill or old (who probably carry diseases which could spread to domestic animals) then again this is only my opinion so it's bound to get beat down by everyone else because any minority opinion is not usually welcomed.


How does the dogs and hunt manage to pick out only the Ill and Old?


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Who reads the Daily Telegraph


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Who reads the Daily Telegraph


I do not read any papers, they are all crap( oops maybe another debate) I have been folowing the Madeleine Mc Cann case and papers have a lot to answer for re libel etc.....


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clueless said:


> How does the dogs and hunt manage to pick out only the Ill and Old?


they're usually the slowest. they wouldn't be able to find a hiding place fast enough.

think of it this way? would you like your dustbin being emptied at night because there isn't enough food for these foxes in the wild? In the long run too many foxes means their prey begins becoming indangered and therefore the foxes die a more long and painful death.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Animal welfare organisations have been singularly unable to show that a ban will even reduce the suffering of the fox. On the briefest inspection, it's clear their argument makes the dual assumptions that the chase and the kill cause more suffering than the alternatives. But they've offered no evidence to back that up.

I have studied the evidence. The only known research into fox responses to being chased was the American Kreeger survey, which concluded that a fox is under more pressure when it's chasing than when it's chased. That makes sense: when being chased, the fox has no expectation of being caught, but when predating, it knows from experience that it might not catch its prey. The claim that a fox fears its demise while being chased is good rhetoric and bad science.

Scientific evidence also suggests that alternative methods of killing foxes cause more suffering than dogs do. Poisoning causes a long and painful death, snares can cause suffering for up to 24 hours and shooting doesn't necessarily lead to a clean kill. These are the methods that will replace hunting after a ban. And they'll be unregulated. In fact, the Government has repeatedly said it won't touch shooting, so there's no possibility of an improvement in animal welfare. Think about it. With dogs, it's all or nothing. The fox is caught or gets away: a zero per cent wounding rate. Guns can kill or wound - our research indicates wounding rates of up to 70 per cent. That's worse than hunting, where the death necessarily occurs in seconds.

Another error is the claim that a ban would save the lives of foxes. MPs have received postcards with headlines such as "A hunting ban was promised in 1999 - some haven't survived the wait" above pictures of dead animals. But it won't save the life of a single fox. The logical response should be a picture of a fox with its jaw blown off by a rifle, with the autopsy report detailing the injuries and describing how many days it took to die. One could even throw in a video of a badger suffocating in a fox-snare. How about a headline such as: "If you want to ban hunting with dogs, have you considered the government-approved alternatives?"

So where is the animal welfare benefit of a ban on hunting? Tony Banks MP might say the issue isn't significant in terms of animal welfare but it has become "totemic". Gerald Kaufman might mutter something about working-class miners who lost their jobs under Thatcher's Tory government.

In fairness to Alun Michael, the Government's rural affairs minister, he has suggested that a measured view should be taken. It was a sensible contribution to a debate driven by high emotions on the pro and anti sides. What a pity the Government didn't stop anti-hunt emotion overrunning a government minister's attempt to see sense.

I think we should look at the suffering of wild animals as a whole. Rather than pretending a ban on one method will improve animal welfare, we should ban all unnecessary suffering by all wild mammals in all circumstances. By doing that through the courts, case law would define what's allowed. Crucially, this approach covers all methods of control.

If the pro-ban lobby trust their arguments, they should regard this as a gift. But, amazingly, they opposed this proposal when it was raised in the Lords by Bernard Donoughue, and by me in the Commons as a Private Member's Bill. That raises the question of motive. If the RSPCA and the League Against Cruel Sports have faith in their arguments, why do they resist the chance to prove them in court? The alternative explanation is that hunting with dogs is so loaded with other baggage - making it "totemic" - that "animal welfare" has become secondary to a perceived victory over those who hunt.

I came into politics to make the best decisions I can on the basis of fact and evidence. That's why I changed my view from supporting a ban to opposing it and supporting an alternative - even though, as the League Against Cruel Sports told me, a majority in my own constituency supported a ban at that time.

Thankfully, public opinion has now swung away from supporting the criminalisation of hunting with dogs. I appeal to colleagues in all parties, including my own, to look at that issue in the same way. Unless one can genuinely justify a ban on the basis of evidence, voting for it is a victory for allowing feelings to overrule facts. In my book, that's illiberal, it's not democratic and it's no way to make just law.

Lembit Opik is the Liberal Democrat MP for Montgomeryshire

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/09/07/do0701.xml


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

Jo P said:


> Who reads the Daily Telegraph


I don't read newspapers for these reasons:
red tops are full of trash! 
Conservative papers use too many terms that piss me off, like "yob" 
I hate papers who promote an political party because they tried to force an opinion on you and tried to make each other look bad.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> they're usually the slowest. they wouldn't be able to find a hiding place fast enough.
> 
> think of it this way? would you like your dustbin being emptied at night because there isn't enough food for these foxes in the wild? In the long run too many foxes means their prey begins becoming indangered and therefore the foxes die a more long and painful death.


Why does their prey become endangered, if foxes are breeding is not there prey also??


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> I don't read newspapers for these reasons:
> red tops are full of trash!
> Conservative papers use too many terms that piss me off, like "yob"
> I hate papers who promote an political party because they tried to force an opinion on you and tried to make each other look bad.


 I am not into politics thanks godone less issue to have an opinion over


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> I don't read newspapers for these reasons:
> red tops are full of trash!
> Conservative papers use too many terms that piss me off, like "yob"
> I hate papers who promote an political party because they tried to force an opinion on you and tried to make each other look bad.


I don't usually neither but reading through the articles they hold some good valid points.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

one more thing which could be noted is that if you look at a dog hunting they kill in one bite breaking the neck which means that the animal doesn't suffer more than it should. Yes, an unexperience dog may make a mistake but what they're doing is natural. If you eat meat and oppose hunting then I think you need to look back at your argument - fair?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clueless said:


> Why does their prey become endangered, if foxes are breeding is not there prey also??


That is indeed a valid point but at first the prey out number the preditor then because of this the preditor's offspring are more likely to survive, due to high sources of food then eventually (over a period of say five years) the preditors out number the prey and there for they preditors begin to strave to death.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

I have read on this thread all the Pro and Anti opinions. I have already posted that the only thing that upsets me is the way in which the fox is hunted eg dens covered, chased for hours, ripped apart. So How do Pro's feel if/ when they actually watch this part?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> I don't usually neither but reading through the articles they hold some good valid points.


Very true, as long as you read the same story from a number of sources then you're end up getting all of the evidence and can make conclusions for yourself


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> one more thing which could be noted is that if you look at a dog hunting they kill in one bite breaking the neck which means that the animal doesn't suffer more than it should. Yes, an unexperience dog may make a mistake but what they're doing is natural. If you eat meat and oppose hunting then I think you need to look back at your argument - fair?


One dog hunting maybe, but not a pack IMO. I do not eat meat, am not a vegatarian, I just do notlike the feel of the fatty bits on my teeth


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> That is indeed a valid point but at first the prey out number the preditor then because of this the preditor's offspring are more likely to survive, due to high sources of food then eventually (over a period of say five years) the preditors out number the prey and there for they preditors begin to strave to death.


Maybe, any evidence re this


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## colacooler (Nov 19, 2007)

Wow this thread has exploded!

Just come back from 3 weeks at my family's farm, right now badgers are the problem more than anything as they are protected and can't be killed or even harrased.

This lambing season the initial loss of lambs was average but will increase as foxes increase in number so there must be control of some kind. My uncle will be taking it into his own hands, lets just say he's cleaning his guns and traps to try and compensate.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

I personally went along for the ride and the atmosphere of riding in a large group,galloping through the countryside with lots of others is a huge adrenaline rush,its very dangerous thats what makes it exciting,i suppose i didnt give any real thought to the actual purpose and chose to stay at the back so i wouldnt witness any killing.I certainly wouldnt go in for any of the smearing blood on the face malarki! and i will never be going hunting again,because ive lost my nerve after a accident the last time,i remain neutral to this debate with no strong feelings either way.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

colacooler said:


> Wow this thread has exploded!
> 
> Just come back from 3 weeks at my family's farm, right now badgers are the problem more than anything as they are protected and can't be killed or even harrased.
> 
> This lambing season the initial loss of lambs was average but will increase as foxes increase in number so there must be control of some kind. My uncle will be taking it into his own hands, lets just say he's cleaning his guns and traps to try and compensate.


So there are other alternative ways for your Uncle to deal with problem Re the lambs, are they all killed by foxes


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clueless said:


> Maybe, any evidence re this


GCSE biology lol.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> I personally went along for the ride and the atmosphere of riding in a large group,galloping through the countryside with lots of others is a huge adrenaline rush,its very dangerous thats what makes it exciting,i suppose i didnt give any real thought to the actual purpose and chose to stay at the back so i wouldnt witness any killing.I certainly wouldnt go in for any of the smearing blood on the face malarki! and i will never be going hunting again,because ive lost my nerve after a accident the last time,i remain neutral to this debate with no strong feelings either way.


Thanks for that, I was wondering how people who actually rode in the Hunt felt


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

clueless said:


> I have not and would not wish too, to me its like standing back and watching a small dog, cat, rabbit etc exhausted and being ripped apart by 20+ other animals.


That is exactly what happens, hence it is called a blood sport.

The pro hunting people have not responded to my previous remarks concerning the little Yorkshire Terrier that was ripped apart in Ashridge!

Blood sports are called so since that is exactly what they are. It is exactly as Garry explained in an earlier thread, although I would not have been quite so blunt 

I think that all living things should be given respect and I would never knowingly kill anything, let alone for sport Mother nature has a wonderful way of achieving harmony in our countryside and the fox population has not increased since the ban.

I fail to see how anyone can justify a living creature being hunted to exhaustion, and then torn apart. What in God's name kind of satisfaction can anyone derive from this.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Fade to Grey said:


> one more thing which could be noted is that if you look at a dog hunting they kill in one bite breaking the neck which means that the animal doesn't suffer more than it should. Yes, an unexperience dog may make a mistake but what they're doing is natural. If you eat meat and oppose hunting then I think you need to look back at your argument - fair?


We are talking about a pack of excited hounds ripping into an exhausted animal, each tearing peices of its flesh! The fox is not killed to eat, but for the sport, so I fail to see any argument here


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> We are talking about a pack of excited hounds ripping into an exhausted animal, each tearing peices of its flesh! The fox is not killed to eat, but for the sport, so I fail to see any argument here


have u been on a hunt nina?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i will never understand how people could possibly enjoy chasing an animal to the point of exhaustion to watch it get ripped to pieces & not think its cruel i just dont think these people are true animal lovers. I bumped in to a lady who is rearing a little fox cub, the mother was shot, the cub was just beautiful & the lady kept saying what a sweet baby she is, these animals lives are just as precious to them as ours our to us, we should learn to live & let live.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

where do you stand with shooting and fishing?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

to be honest i could'nt kill anything i probably have more respect for the life of a spider than some on here do for a fox


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

what about poisoning/trapping rats/mice they are living creatures too,do you all not agree on this ?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

Nina Cole said:


> We are talking about a pack of excited hounds ripping into an exhausted animal, each tearing peices of its flesh! The fox is not killed to eat, but for the sport, so I fail to see any argument here


Its just a fair point saying anyone who disagrees with ANY kind of hunting. I didn't state FOX HUNTING, simply hunting.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> what about poisoning/trapping rats/mice they are living creatures too,do you all not agree on this ?


poisoning is cruel, that cause the animal immense pain. 
trapping rats and mice you can move them elsewhere.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

claire said:


> have u been on a hunt nina?


 Re people who has/ have not been on a hunt, I posted asking a question, I am still waiting on answers re same ( only had one so far)-------------------------------------------------------I have read on this thread all the Pro and Anti opinions. I have already posted that the only thing that upsets me is the way in which the fox is hunted eg dens covered, chased for hours, ripped apart. So How do Pro's feel if/ when they actually watch this part?
__________________


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

the thing is i believe that foxes are fantastic at controlling rodents, such a shame man feels should control nature, when eco systems are left alone by humans everything is in balance.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clueless said:


> Re people who has/ have not been on a hunt, I posted asking a question, I am still waiting on answers re same ( only had one so far)-------------------------------------------------------I have read on this thread all the Pro and Anti opinions. I have already posted that the only thing that upsets me is the way in which the fox is hunted eg dens covered, chased for hours, ripped apart. So How do Pro's feel if/ when they actually watch this part?
> __________________


Its a apart of the countryside, you'd expect to see things like this. It's like when you see road kill. nothing you can do about it you just except it.

what about the way some of the animals are killed for human consumption? 
and ferreting? 
its all the same to me, if someone disagrees with one of them then it makes logical sense for them to disagree with all of it.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> It will always go round in circles, the anti hunt people will continue to question & bombard their opinions in the hope that any pro hunting people will give in...


And the pro-hunters will continue to pretend that watching an animal being ripped to shreds is a fun way to spend a day in the hope that they will convince the rest of us that selected blood sports (for strangely, they speak out against other blood sports) are acceptable.

I think feelings run very high on both sides of this subject; the pro-hunters are never going to convince the anti-hunters that chasing a fox for miles, allowing a pack of dogs to rip it to shreds, then burying the cubs alive is a humane way to act.

I'm anti-hunt, but that's not why I'm questioning pro-hunt posters. I genuinely want to try to understand how animal lovers - because the hunt supporters on this forum *are* animal lovers, I don't doubt that - manage to justify to themselves that watching an animal being ripped to pieces and burying cubs alive is worthwhile and right. And so far none of the arguments have convinced me, because as I said in my earlier post, it is blatantly obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence that none of the arguments stand; every argument posted so far has a solution that is much more humane than hunting.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

why would anyone who hates animal cruelty go on a hunt?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> That is exactly what happens, hence it is called a blood sport.
> 
> The pro hunting people have not responded to my previous remarks concerning the little Yorkshire Terrier that was ripped apart in Ashridge!
> 
> ...


The fox population has increased since the ban,I would be prefer a fox to be killed instantly by a dog,than to suffer a long drawn out death by shooting or trapping them.
It's about animal welfare,or at least that what the ban was about so can you explain why people feel it's ok to shoot a fox and see it die a painful slow death?

Missed the yorkshire terrier bit,what happened?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> Its a apart of the countryside, you'd expect to see things like this. It's like when you see road kill. nothing you can do about it you just except it.
> 
> what about the way some of the animals are killed for human consumption?
> and ferreting?
> its all the same to me, if someone disagrees with one of them then it makes logical sense for them to disagree with all of it.


Okay but How would/do you feel watching/ had to watch the way the fox dies. Are you saying yo would just watch and think its part of the countryside


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

i think the only alternative is shooting.Traps can leave a animal in pain slowly dying for days as can poison.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

I would also think that death by hunt dogs would be extremly quick !amd any ripping apart would be done after death.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> The fox population has increased since the ban,I would be prefer a fox to be killed instantly by a dog,than to suffer a long drawn out death by shooting or trapping them.
> It's about animal welfare,or at least that what the ban was about so can you explain why people feel it's ok to shoot a fox and see it die a painful slow death?
> 
> Missed the yorkshire terrier bit,what happened?


I will answer your question although no Pro has answered mine
IMO Hunting a fox down, the way it is done, the fox does not die instantly.
I do not feel its okay to shoot a fox or any animal unless experienced thus avoiding a painful slow death


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i dont agree with hunting foxes full stop, they are one of our few remaining predators who keep down rabbit & rodent numbers, all methods of killing them are cruel.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> the thing is i believe that foxes are fantastic at controlling rodents, such a shame man feels should control nature, when eco systems are left alone by humans everything is in balance.


foxes are also fantastic at killing livestock, poulty, PETS, and spreadin disease


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clueless said:


> Okay but How would/do you feel watching/ had to watch the way the fox dies. Are you saying yo would just watch and think its part of the countryside


Yeah, I've grown up seeing things like this so I guess I just aren't effected by it. But I do see why people would be. and to be fair I don't agree with the alternative ways of hunting, this is the least cruel of them all.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> i think the only alternative is shooting.Traps can leave a animal in pain slowly dying for days as can poison.


Yes but even shooting them doesn't guarentee they are killed a study found that 50% of foxes shot with a shotgun were wounded not killed.So again they are suffering.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I would be prefer a fox to be killed instantly by a dog,than to suffer a long drawn out death by shooting or trapping them.
> It's about animal welfare,or at least that what the ban was about so can you explain why people feel it's ok to shoot a fox and see it die a painful slow death?
> 
> Missed the yorkshire terrier bit,what happened?


I would prefer to see a fox shot by an accurate marksman and killed instantly. These supposed bad marksmen are a figment of the pro-hunters imagination, used as an excuse to perpetuate the inhumane way of killing foxes.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

claire said:


> foxes are also fantastic at killing livestock, poulty, PETS, and spreadin disease


and when they get into poulty houses and what not they kill them all not just what they need.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> i dont agree with hunting foxes full stop, they are one of our few remaining predators who keep down rabbit & rodent numbers, all methods of killing them are cruel.


if the numbers are to great with any animal as a result of no/few natural preditors it is a problem for the species and other aminals so numbers must be kept down


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> And the pro-hunters will continue to pretend that watching an animal being ripped to shreds is a fun way to spend a day in the hope that they will convince the rest of us that selected blood sports (for strangely, they speak out against other blood sports) are acceptable.
> 
> I think feelings run very high on both sides of this subject; the pro-hunters are never going to convince the anti-hunters that chasing a fox for miles, allowing a pack of dogs to rip it to shreds, then burying the cubs alive is a humane way to act.
> 
> I'm anti-hunt, but that's not why I'm questioning pro-hunt posters. I genuinely want to try to understand how animal lovers - because the hunt supporters on this forum *are* animal lovers, I don't doubt that - manage to justify to themselves that watching an animal being ripped to pieces and burying cubs alive is worthwhile and right. And so far none of the arguments have convinced me, because as I said in my earlier post, it is blatantly obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence that none of the arguments stand; every argument posted so far has a solution that is much more humane than hunting.


Thats what I want to know How they could watch the end result of the fox


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

As for fox hunting - I'm so glad it has been ban.. I would love to take one of those posh twits in their red jacket and jodpers and drop them in the roughest part of Sheffield and let them run for their lives as they are being chased by an angry mob.. see how they like it!!

[/QUOTE]

what a ridiculous statement.. You obviously have no idea about the damage foxes can do to farms and livestock, never mind when they start over populating towns and cities..

I hate the way a lot of working class people have their narrow minded opinions


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

claire said:


> foxes are also fantastic at killing livestock, poulty, PETS, and spreadin disease


would you prefer that foxes were wiped off the planet then?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> I would prefer to see a fox shot by an accurate marksman and killed instantly. These supposed bad marksmen are a figment of the pro-hunters imagination, used as an excuse to perpetuate the inhumane way of killing foxes.


an accurate marksman, how ever accurate he/she is, will still often miss and cause the fox more pain that intended


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> I would prefer to see a fox shot by an accurate marksman and killed instantly. These supposed bad marksmen are a figment of the pro-hunters imagination, used as an excuse to perpetuate the inhumane way of killing foxes.


no marksman is 100% accurate


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I cant answer your question Clueless for a couple of reasons - I have stated previously that I am not pro-hunting but pro-choice - and secondly I've never been hunting so I've no idea what I'd feel like watching a fox die.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> I would prefer to see a fox shot by an accurate marksman and killed instantly. These supposed bad marksmen are a figment of the pro-hunters imagination, used as an excuse to perpetuate the inhumane way of killing foxes.


Skilled marksmen also miss,they are human afterall 
In an ideal world they would be killed instantly,but unfortunatly we are far from living in that world! That's why we have active BSL,smoking ban,ban on hunting.Wonder what's next ?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> would you prefer that foxes were wiped off the planet then?


no but there numbers should be controlled, can i just say thats a silly statement too


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

claire said:


> foxes are also fantastic at killing livestock, poulty, PETS, and spreadin disease


PETS Any links


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> I would also think that death by hunt dogs would be extremly quick !amd any ripping apart would be done after death.


Which is very true. a dog hunting, like a wolf, doesn't want to risk an injury themselves and just get on with it.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Jo P said:


> I cant answer your question Clueless for a couple of reasons - I have stated previously that I am not pro-hunting but pro-choice - and secondly I've never been hunting so I've no idea what I'd feel like watching a fox die.


Okay Thanks anyway


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clueless said:


> PETS Any links


they kill rabbits , my mums neighbour lost all 6 of her rabbits some years ago they were in a safe hutch but the fox got them


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> an accurate marksman, how ever accurate he/she is, will still often miss and cause the fox more pain that intended





claire said:


> no marksman is 100% accurate





sallyanne said:


> Skilled marksmen also miss,they are human afterall
> In an ideal world they would be killed instantly,but unfortunatly we are far from living in that world!


It is still more humane for the odd shot to miss than for every fox to be ripped apart by hounds and the cubs buried alive.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> It is still more humane for the odd shot to miss than for every fox to be ripped apart by hounds and the cubs buried alive.


so if u are so concerned about animal welfare how can u except THE ODD SHOT TO MISS! thats no better than hunting with dogs!!! no way of killin foxes will ever be kind to them but unfortunatly its a neccessity


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

man does to much interfering nature would control numbers, i dont know about in the UK but in America their are some predator friendly farmers who share the land with the animals to whom it once belonged i think with all the pressures on wildlife these days this is what should be happening everywhere, instead of living in the past & calling predators "vermin" i think its so arrogant.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Skilled marksmen also miss,they are human afterall
> In an ideal world they would be killed instantly,but unfortunatly we are far from living in that world! That's why we have active BSL,smoking ban,ban on hunting.Wonder what's next ?


A Ban on encouraging Debates on Forums


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> man does to much interfering nature would control numbers, i dont know about in the UK but in America their are some predator friendly farmers who share the land with the animals to whom it once belonged i think with all the pressures on wildlife these days this is what should be happening everywhere instead of living in the past & calling predators "vermin" i think its so arrogant.


so lets all get over run with foxes,,,,, that would be fun


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> man does to much interfering nature would control numbers, i dont know about in the UK but in America their are some predator friendly farmers who share the land with the animals to whom it once belonged i think with all the pressures on wildlife these days this is what should be happening everywhere instead of living in the past & calling predators "vermin" i think its so arrogant.


If everyone thought like that we would be overun with vermin! rats/mice/rabbits and foxes would be everywhere! as would disease.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> It is still more humane for the odd shot to miss than for every fox to be ripped apart by hounds and the cubs buried alive.


I'm sorry but I can't get my head around the fact that you think it's ok for foxes to die a slow painful death from a gunshot wound than to be killed instantly by dogs,we are not talking about the odd one we are talking hundreds.Isn't that cruel ?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clueless said:


> A Ban on encouraging Debates on Forums


.........lol


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I'm sorry but I can't get my head around the fact that you think it's ok for foxes to die a slow painful death from a gunshot wound than to be killed instantly by dogs,we are not talking about the odd one we are talking hundreds.Isn't that cruel ?


totally 100% agreed thats what i was trying to say but u put it better


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> It is still more humane for the odd shot to miss than for every fox to be ripped apart by hounds and the cubs buried alive.


the animal is ripped appart after death.nand the odd shot is alot higher than what you'd think, I imagine its less than half the shots actually kill the animal on the spot.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

but there wouldnt be so many rats,mice,rabbits if there were more foxes!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> but there wouldnt be so many rats,mice,rabbits if there were more foxes!


we had loads of rats down the bottom of our garden we killed 8 of the filthy things in a week! and we certainly dont get foxes around here!if man didnt intervene they would end up everywhere and in the house!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

how do you feel about people killing the wolves of greater yellowstone or the big cats in africa because some kill livestock?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

claire said:


> so lets all get over run with foxes,,,,, that would be fun


Oh totally I can be woken up every night by them jumping on the car and making the horrific noise they make!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> but there wouldnt be so many rats,mice,rabbits if there were more foxes!


there would, not many things reproduce like rats n mices probley would need a million more foxes to get rid of the rodent problem


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> how do you feel about people killing the wolves of greater yellowstone or the big cats in africa because some kill livestock?


i see what you're doing here


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> how do you feel about people killing the wolves of greater yellowstone or the big cats in africa because some kill livestock?


if they are maneaters then its right to do so,otherwise its a bit of a weird comparison! we are talking about vermin.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> how do you feel about people killing the wolves of greater yellowstone or the big cats in africa because some kill livestock?


there is no comparison


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> we had loads of rats down the bottom of our garden we killed 8 of the filthy things in a week! and we certainly dont get foxes around here!if man didnt intervene they would end up everywhere and in the house!


thats just my point man has upset the natural balance the foxes, owls etc should be doing that job


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> we had loads of rats down the bottom of our garden we killed 8 of the filthy things in a week! and we certainly dont get foxes around here!if man didnt intervene they would end up everywhere and in the house!


a fox once stole the meat out of the kitchen


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> a fox once stole the meat out of the kitchen


bloody vermin ........lol


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> if they are maneaters then its right to do so,otherwise its a bit of a weird comparison! we are talking about vermin.


but the wolves of greater yellowstone are classed as vermin, just as people here class foxes


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Well I cannot wait around anymore for answers re How do Pro's watch/ feel seeing a fox being ripped apart by dogs as got a wedding to go to. Good Luck with this debate Tally Ho


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> but the wolves of greater yellowstone are classed as vermin, just as people here class foxes


a wolf will only kill what it needs and its rare that they'll go for livestock, they're petrified of humans.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I'm sorry but I can't get my head around the fact that you think it's ok for foxes to die a slow painful death from a gunshot wound than to be killed instantly by dogs,we are not talking about the odd one we are talking hundreds.Isn't that cruel ?


Let me explain.

I disagree with your premise that all foxes shot will die a slow and lingering death. There are many accurate marksmen out there.

I equally disagree with your premise that being ripped apart by hounds is a quick and painless death. It may be quick, but it certainly is not painless.

I am saying that if, instead of hunting them, foxes were culled by an accurate marksman then - just maybe - an odd shot may not be on target._ If _that were to happen in an odd case, then that fox _may_ have a lingering death.

I am saying that _if_ on an odd occasion, one fox may have a lingering death, then that is far more humane than every fox having an horrific death by being ripped to shreds by a pack of hounds.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> a wolf will only kill what it needs and its rare that they'll go for livestock, they're petrified of humans.


dont foxes spread mainge! do wolves??????


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> but there wouldnt be so many rats,mice,rabbits if there were more foxes!


ive read thats theres more foxes in towns than infact in the countryside, so then why are there still thousands of rats /mice in towns because we are dirty animals leave rubbish everywhere and the foxes live off the rubbish not there natural food.

where as the country fox still lives off its prey, or your chickens and lambs and once in a chiken run they go into a killing spree and kill.


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> we had loads of rats down the bottom of our garden we killed 8 of the filthy things in a week! and we certainly dont get foxes around here!if man didnt intervene they would end up everywhere and in the house!


yeah but proberly miss the rest of them you can double or even triple the amount you seen or killed


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Let me explain.
> 
> I disagree with your premise that all foxes shot will die a slow and lingering death. There are many accurate marksmen out there.
> 
> ...


i dont see how its any better!!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> a wolf will only kill what it needs and its rare that they'll go for livestock, they're petrified of humans.


but the anti wolf people dont say that & now they've been delisted & they are going to wipe out 80% of them in the few weeks since delisting they've slaughtered at least 77 in one area, & in Idaho they've announced open hunting season on all wolves this september


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

claire said:


> dont foxes spread mainge! do wolves??????


I'm not sure, I certainly haven't heard of it but i guess it's possibly.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> but the anti wolf people dont say that & now they've been delisted & they are going to wipe out 80% of them in the few weeks since delisting they've slaughtered at least 77 in one area, & in Idaho they've announced open hunting season on all wolves this september


I know where i'm protesting in september then


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> I'm not sure, I certainly haven't heard of it but i guess it's possibly.


dont think so ,but do you think thats a valid reason to wipe them out?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

culling of wild animals is,and always will be happening,they have seasons for shooting certain animals,its to control populations/numbers.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

claire said:


> i dont see how its any better!!


So what you are saying then Claire is that you think it is better for every fox to be ripped apart by a pack of dogs than for the odd fox to be shot inaccurately. I'm sorry, I don't follow your logic. Could you explain further, please?


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> but the wolves of greater yellowstone are classed as vermin, just as people here class foxes


yeah but it was man who put them back in yellowstone in the first place after they killed them all


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> dont think so ,but do you think thats a valid reason to wipe them out?


no one wants to wipe foxes out just numbers to be controlled


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> I know where i'm protesting in september then


Ahh thankyou, you could sign this petition Greater Yellowstone Wolves Delisted - Protest Now! - The Petition Site


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> a wolf will only kill what it needs and its rare that they'll go for livestock, they're petrified of humans.


no but they will take lambs, even whilst the ewe is giving birth to it and they dont just take one for food, they'll kill any in sight.. same with chickens!

Imagine what farmers have to go through trying to protect their animals from foxes and as said earlier badgers.

I dont even live in the country side and I see and hear foxes in the city centre at night!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

trouble is petitions arent worth the paper they are written on!wont make the slightest difference.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> dont think so ,but do you think thats a valid reason to wipe them out?


wipe what out? wolves... they shouldn't be wiped out
foxes, they shouldn't be wiped out but controlled.

may i ask, are you against rabbiting, dear shooting, and anything where an animal i killed for "sport" (as it's been put) and even for eating?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> So what you are saying then Claire is that you think it is better for every fox to be ripped apart by a pack of dogs than for the odd fox to be shot inaccurately. I'm sorry, I don't follow your logic. Could you explain further, please?


you say hunting foxes is cruel which i agree with but i dont see how a marksman would be any better! yes the fox is in pain when killed by dogs but its over! i cant think of anything worse than a poor animal crawling somewhere to die over several days in lots of pain,,,,,,,, i just dont see it as any better than hunting with dogs!!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

You should see the carnage a mink in a chicken coop makes!!!blood and guts everywhere,not just killing for food but for the hell of it.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> culling of wild animals is,and always will be happening,they have seasons for shooting certain animals,its to control populations/numbers.


I'm fine with it until they wipe an animal to the brink of extiction, I want to have children who can say "I've seen a wild Tiger/Wolf etc etc"

Humans are the worse animal for killing too much.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

All you people who are saying hunting is cruel, I'm guessing you are all vegiterians?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

clare7577 said:


> You should see the carnage a mink in a chicken coop makes!!!blood and guts everywhere,not just killing for food but for the hell of it.


like foxes


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

claire said:


> you say hunting foxes is cruel which i agree with but i dont see how a marksman would be any better! yes the fox is in pain when killed by dogs but its over! i cant think of anything worse than a poor animal crawling somewhere to die over several days in lots of pain,,,,,,,, i just dont see it as any better than hunting with dogs!!


most foxes are active at night and trying to shoot them in the dark well its more than apain nine out of tens time your miss or not get a fatal shot unless you got night vision glasses and not meny poeple will have?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

bee112 said:


> All you people who are saying hunting is cruel, I'm guessing you are all vegiterians?


I tried making that point earlier but it isn't "relivent" apparently.
But I still want to know that answer too!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

although i dont eat meat & couldnt kill, i have respect for people who do eat what they kill but i have non for people who kill for fun ie fox hunting


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> So what you are saying then Claire is that you think it is better for every fox to be ripped apart by a pack of dogs than for the odd fox to be shot inaccurately. I'm sorry, I don't follow your logic. Could you explain further, please?


THE DOGS ONLY RIP IT APART AFTER IT'S DEAD!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

claire said:


> you say hunting foxes is cruel which i agree with but i dont see how a marksman would be any better! yes the fox is in pain when killed by dogs but its over! i cant think of anything worse than a poor animal crawling somewhere to die over several days in lots of pain,,,,,,,, i just dont see it as any better than hunting with dogs!!


This is also my point but as yet nobody will give any answer 

The ban was brought in because of animal welfare well I'm sorry I don't see how shooting a fox leaving it wounded to die is animal welfare.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> although i dont eat meat & couldnt kill, i have respect for people who do eat what they kill but i have non for people who kill for fun ie fox hunting


but it's alright to kill wolves?!


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> The ban was brought in because of animal welfare well I'm sorry I don't see how shooting a fox leaving it wounded to die is animal welfare.


Agreed.........


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> but it's alright to kill wolves?!


my god no how did i give that impression

i love wolves they have been removed from the protection of the Endangered species act through a loop hole in the law by Bush & co


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> I tried making that point earlier but it isn't "relivent" apparently.
> But I still want to know that answer too!


i noticed certain questions dont get answered lol



bee112 said:


> All you people who are saying hunting is cruel, I'm guessing you are all vegiterians?


haha perfect point


sallyanne said:


> This is also my point but as yet nobody will give any answer
> 
> The ban was brought in because of animal welfare well I'm sorry I don't see how shooting a fox leaving it wounded to die is animal welfare.


totally agreed


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> I tried making that point earlier but it isn't "relivent" apparently.
> But I still want to know that answer too!


Yeh it's ridiculous.. I understand if people disagree with hunting.. but then the meat they are eating is most likely to have had a horrible life before being strung up and killed.. these animals being hunted have had a life roaming the countryside and freedom which is not enjoyed by the majority of animals on their dinner plates!

It doesnt make sense..


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> my god no how did i give that impression
> 
> i love wolves they have been removed from the protection of the Endangered species act through a loop hole in the law by Bush & co


I beg your pardon, I probably got muddled then, sorry


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

claire said:


> you say hunting foxes is cruel which i agree with but i dont see how a marksman would be any better! yes the fox is in pain when killed by dogs but its over! i cant think of anything worse than a poor animal crawling somewhere to die over several days in lots of pain,,,,,,,, i just dont see it as any better than hunting with dogs!!


A marksman would kill instantly most of the time. These innacurate marksmen that the pro-hunters would have you believe abound through the countryside are a figment of their imagination, an excuse used to justify their blood sport! I live in an area where hunting with dogs and guns is rife (I don't agree with that, either, but that's a whole other thread!) and the marksmen would be laughing their socks off at the thought that they could not kill a fox cleanly with one shot.

I don't like to think of any animal suffering either, but I feel it's a matter of quantity - the fact that it may (and equally it may not!) happen to an odd fox against the surety that being ripped to death will happen to most foxes.

I think that running scared for your life, fearing for your cubs' safety, and then being ripped to pieces in an agonising death is much more cruel and would cause much more suffering than using an accurate marksmen to cull foxes.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

bee112 said:


> Yeh it's ridiculous.. I understand if people disagree with hunting.. but then the meat they are eating is most likely to have had a horrible life before being strung up and killed.. these animals being hunted have had a life roaming the countryside and freedom which is not enjoyed by the majority of animals on their dinner plates!
> 
> It doesnt make sense..


I was trying to work out how it wasn't valid.

I eat meat but not all meats because i don't like them and i don't eat eggs or many fishes. I refuse to eat anything indangered


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> A marksman would kill instantly most of the time. These innacurate marksmen that the pro-hunters would have you believe abound through the countryside are a figment of their imagination, an excuse used to justify their blood sport! I live in an area where hunting with dogs and guns is rife (I don't agree with that, either, but that's a whole other thread!) and the marksmen would be laughing their socks off at the thought that they could not kill a fox cleanly with one shot.
> 
> I don't like to think of any animal suffering either, but I feel it's a matter of quantity - the fact that it may (and equally it may not!) happen to an odd fox against the surety that being ripped to death will happen to most foxes.
> 
> I think that running scared for your life, fearing for your cubs' safety, and then being ripped to pieces in an agonising death is much more cruel and would cause much more suffering than using an accurate marksmen to cull foxes.


BUT marksmen are not accurate 100% so its no better than hunting with dogs


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> I beg your pardon, I probably got muddled then, sorry


i'll let you off then lol did'nt you notice my "help the yellowstone wolves" petition?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> A marksman would kill instantly most of the time. *how will they be able to get a clean shot when the target is moving and at night?* These innacurate marksmen that the pro-hunters would have you believe abound through the countryside are a figment of their imagination, an excuse used to justify their blood sport! I live in an area where hunting with dogs and guns is rife (I don't agree with that, either, but that's a whole other thread!) and the marksmen would be laughing their socks off at the thought that they could not kill a fox cleanly with one shot.
> 
> I don't like to think of any animal suffering either, but I feel it's a matter of quantity - the fact that it may (and equally it may not!) happen to an odd fox against the surety that being ripped to death will happen to most foxes.
> 
> I think that running scared for your life, fearing for your cubs' safety, and then being ripped to pieces *After they're already dead* in an agonising death is much more cruel and would cause much more suffering than using an accurate marksmen to cull foxes.


Please tell me how farmers killing foxes coming after their live stock is clean killing? at night and i doubt they'll have night vision goggles.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

claire said:


> BUT marksmen are not accurate 100% so its no better than hunting with dogs


Claire, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think that the _possibility_ of an odd fox being shot inaccurately is better odds than the certainty of _every_ fox being ripped to shreds, whereas you obviously think that the two things are equal. I don't think either of us is going to convince the other.

I know which I'd choose if I had to die and the choice was between a shot that would most probably kill me instantly, or the certainty of being ripped to shreds by a pack of dogs. And it wouldn't be the dogs!


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> Claire, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think that the _possibility_ of an odd fox being shot inaccurately is better odds than the certainty of _every_ fox being ripped to shreds, whereas you obviously think that the two things are equal. I don't think either of us is going to convince the other.
> 
> I know which I'd choose if I had to die and the choice was between a shot that would most probably kill me instantly, or the certainty of being ripped to shreds by a pack of dogs. And it wouldn't be the dogs!


may i leave you with this one last point.

in a pack of dogs you have individual differences between them, the same as everything. so you will always have on at the front of the pack ahead of the others when they get to the fox they kill it out right, it's only when the rest of the pack catch up that the fox is ripped apart, as i've said many times the fox is dead by this point.

Now I'm going to agree to disagree  Brillient dabate even though some of the questions which should of been answered weren't.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

at the end of the day its a well known fact that hunts breed foxes to be killed to keep "supplies" plentiful,so i think it would be fantastic if this shameful "sport" stays in the history books like other blood sports of the past, farmers have always & will always shoot, trap, poison them anyway. So one less act of cruelty can only be good.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> Please tell me how farmers killing foxes coming after their live stock is clean killing? at night and i doubt they'll have night vision goggles.


Fadey, a question right back at you - please tell me how a hunt on a weekend can help your same farmer with foxes coming after his livestock at night?

An organised daytime cull with an expert marskman would rid the countryside of more foxes and in a more humane way than any hunt can.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

The thing is rite...alot of hunters on this thread..or ex hunters or people that agree wiv hunting said... its better the fox gets ripped apart then to take a bad shot from a farmer and suffer for days ... but look at this vid it proves they can get them wivout a hunt because the people in this vid dug a fox out the hole and put it in a sack...why didnt they shoot it in the head and be done wiv it?? they let it go in a field for the dogs to rip apart??? why??? they caught the so called vermin so why let it go for the dogs to rip apart??? ANSWER THAT?? wanna know why...coz their sick ba*tards thats why... how can anyone look at that poor foxes face and say its ok ??

ps... i hope that rider broke her effing back.  Irish Council Against Blood Sports - Working For Ireland's Wildlife just under the 3 little video's to the righte is the word "video" click it and have a look on fox hunting.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Got to go and do some marking! Catch you all later!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Claire, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think that the _possibility_ of an odd fox being shot inaccurately is better odds than the certainty of _every_ fox being ripped to shreds, whereas you obviously think that the two things are equal. I don't think either of us is going to convince the other.
> 
> I know which I'd choose if I had to die and the choice was between a shot that would most probably kill me instantly, or the certainty of being ripped to shreds by a pack of dogs. And it wouldn't be the dogs!


what im saying tho in the interest of animal welfare niether is better than the other they both cause suffering, I dont think hunting with dogs should have been banned untill some other better method was put in place and a marksmen is no better!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Got to go and do some marking! Catch you all later!


see ya spell


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> at the end of the day its a well known fact that hunts breed foxes to be killed to keep "supplies" plentiful,so i think it would be fantastic if this shameful "sport" stays in the history books like other blood sports of the past, farmers have always & will always shoot, trap, poison them anyway. So one less act of cruelty can only be good.


i dont think hunts breed foxes!and why do people keep assuming that this is history and doesnt still happen??


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> The thing is rite...alot of hunters on this thread..or ex hunters or people that agree wiv hunting said... its better the fox gets ripped apart then to take a bad shot from a farmer and suffer for days ... but look at this vid it proves they can get them wivout a hunt because the people in this vid dug a fox out the hole and put it in a sack...why didnt they shoot it in the head and be done wiv it?? they let it go in a field for the dogs to rip apart??? why??? they caught the so called vermin so why let it go for the dogs to rip apart??? ANSWER THAT?? wanna know why...coz their sick ba*tards thats why... how can anyone look at that poor foxes face and say its ok ??
> 
> ps... i hope that rider broke her effing back.  Irish Council Against Blood Sports - Working For Ireland's Wildlife just under the 3 little video's to the righte is the word "video" click it and have a look on fox hunting.


got to agree loe that is totally wrong no one should do that, but not all hunts are like that its the same as anything there is bad examples for everything people do, for everything there is a right way n a wrong n some people what ever they do will pick the wrong i like to call them as5holes


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

claire said:


> got to agree loe that is totally wrong no one should do that, but not all hunts are like that its the same as anything there is bad examples for everything people do, for everything there is a right way n a wrong n some people what ever they do will pick the wrong i like to call them as5holes


LOL good word 

But that was totally wrong..they caught it..they should of shot it...but they let it go for dogs to rip apart  it nasty.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

On an earlier thread, the fact that I stated I was a vegetarian, was immaterial according to some! Now it is being used to justify the argument against hunting - completely bazaar!

I thought this to be a forum full of animal lovers, how wrong I was


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> THE DOGS ONLY RIP IT APART AFTER IT'S DEAD!


Yes but they spend how long chasing it before that? Does the fox enjoy that part of the hunt or are they terrified, running for their lives and exhausted?

How anyone can enjoy chasing a terrified animal is beyond my comprehension, and to call themselves animal lovers as well that really confuses me, I'd love to be enlightened how that works?

Fair enough the fox population needs controlling but why not do it humanly? You don't need to have people with crap aim trying to shoot them:



spellweaver said:


> An organised daytime cull with an expert marskman would rid the countryside of more foxes and in a more humane way than any hunt can.


Sounds like a good way round it to me.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Yes but they spend how long chasing it before that? Does the fox enjoy that part of the hunt or are they terrified, running for their lives and exhausted?
> 
> How anyone can enjoy chasing a terrified animal is beyond my comprehension, and to call themselves animal lovers as well that really confuses me, I'd love to be enlightened how that works?
> 
> ...


Thing is alan...they enjoy it..get a kick out of it they do...u can tell they luv it by there poxy voices keep shouting whaaahaaayyyy wen the fox was ripped apart on that vid....

ild whaahaaayyy them and stick that horn rite up their jackseys  cruel gits.

surely they can get the traps like they use in the humane societys and trap them that way??? then shoot them out rite.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Its beyond my comprehension, that any decent human being can even try and justify this sadistic sport


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> surely they can get the traps like they use in the humane societys and trap them that way??? then shoot them out rite.


agreed...................


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Its beyond my comprehension, that any decent human being can even try and justify this sadistic sport


i wouldnt say because someone takes part in hunts they arent decent human beings


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Its beyond my comprehension, that any decent human being can even try and justify this sadistic sport


i agree nina, i will never understand how they can do this to a red blooded air breathing living creature  


claire said:


> agreed...................


ty


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> Please tell me how farmers killing foxes coming after their live stock is clean killing? at night and i doubt they'll have night vision goggles.


my parents live out in the sticks over looking the malvern hills and the hunt used to go through my parents bottom Field,and i used to watch all these high and mighty types creaming their knickers at the thought of chasing some a poor animal and then they would get off on watching their pack of hounds rip it to shreds! 
If its just killing vermin then why does it take 30 people on horse back to do it!?
Like i said i don't care how you sugar coat it,its still is, the use of an animal for human sport at the expense of its life! if it was vermin,which it ain't,then shoot it,why chase it with a pack of dogs and on horse back!?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

garryd said:


> my parents live out in the sticks over looking the malvern hills and the hunt used to go through my parents bottom Field,and i used to watch all these high and mighty types creaming their knickers at the thought of chasing some a poor animal and then they would get off on watching their pack of hounds rip it to shreds!
> If its just killing vermin then why does it take 30 people on horse back to do it!?
> Like i said i don't care how you sugar coat it,its still is, the use of an animal for human sport at the expense of its life! if it was vermin,which it ain't,then shoot it,why chase it with a pack of dogs and on horse back!?


Because they enjoy chasing a fox to exaustion and then see it ripped to bits...no otha reason why is there....because as said... ther is better ways of dealing wiv these foxes but they choose to do it the nasty way coz they enjoy it.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

claire said:


> i wouldnt say because someone takes part in hunts they arent decent human beings


What would you call them Claire?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> What would you call them Claire?


well i dont know nina but i would never judge them as a bad person just because of the way they live their life,,,,,, people will always disagree on things like this, i thinks its wrong personally but dont believe in telling someone they are a bad person for doing something i dont like. A bad person is a thief/murder/rapist/bully not someone who hunts!!!!!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Ok,Those of you who say the fox is scared running for it's life,can you actually back this up with any conclusive proof ???

Does it actually know it's been hunted and going to be killed,that's our emotions getting in the way,not the foxes.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Its beyond my comprehension, that any decent human being can even try and justify this sadistic sport


I can't see how any decent human being agrees with shooting it and leaving it with a gunshot wound for days possibly weeks to die.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Claire, I am not talking about hunting in general. If you are shooting an animal to eat, that is totally different. We are discussing a blood sport here, where an animal is chased to exhaustion, and even if they manage to reach what should be the safety of their dens, they are dug out and torn to shreds. It is not a game of football or netball, so how in God's name can these people call it sport?

We were told initially that people would lose their livelihood, horses would be shot (why, and doesn't it show the callousness of these people) and dogs would be put to sleep! Absolute nonsense.  Nobody has lost their jobs, horses are still ridden only it is done without blood being spilled.

Blood sports cannot be justified.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Claire, I am not talking about hunting in general. If you are shooting an animal to eat, that is totally different. We are discussing a blood sport here, where an animal is chased to exhaustion, and even if they manage to reach what should be the safety of their dens, they are dug out and torn to shreds. It is not a game of football or netball, so how in God's name can these people call it sport?
> 
> We were told initially that people would lose their livelihood, horses would be shot (why, and doesn't it show the callousness of these people) and dogs would be put to sleep! Absolute nonsense. Nobody has lost their jobs, horses are still ridden only it is done without blood being spilled.
> 
> Blood sports cannot be justified.


i know what we were talking about nina after all thats what the thread is about! it was/ is a way of life for people right or wrong! i dont know the ins n outs i have never been on a hunt of any kinds so i cant judge but to say they are decent human beings is strong,


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> Claire, I am not talking about hunting in general. If you are shooting an animal to eat, that is totally different. We are discussing a blood sport here, where an animal is chased to exhaustion, and even if they manage to reach what should be the safety of their dens, they are dug out and torn to shreds. It is not a game of football or netball, so how in God's name can these people call it sport?
> 
> We were told initially that people would lose their livelihood, horses would be shot (why, and doesn't it show the callousness of these people) and dogs would be put to sleep! Absolute nonsense. Nobody has lost their jobs, horses are still ridden only it is done without blood being spilled.
> 
> Blood sports cannot be justified.


If a fox goes to ground they usually use the terriers to flush them out,if they are dug out there shot.
My husband has been going out with the hunts for years and in this time seen only a handful of foxes killed.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I notice Sally that you have omitted to answer any of my other points  Neither has anyone commented on how the hounds have killed other dogs in their frenzy to find the fox!


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

I have been on fox hunts in the past and you dont get to see the fox being killed as the hounds are that far ahead.. People dont get off on seeing a fox being riped to shreds because you dont see it! plus most of the time the fox gets away.

I wouldn't say I'm not a decent human being, just that I was brought up riding horses and thats what most horse riders used to do, hunt. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you shouldn't slag people off for it.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Ok,Those of you who say the fox is scared running for it's life,can you actually back this up with any conclusive proof ???
> 
> Does it actually know it's been hunted and going to be killed,that's our emotions getting in the way,not the foxes.


wtf sally...of caurse they know their being hunted they know that by the dog barks and the horns blowing and also instinked, and their deffo not running wiv a smily face are they?? they are scared for sure thats obvious.


sallyanne said:


> I can't see how any decent human being agrees with shooting it and leaving it with a gunshot wound for days possibly weeks to die.


sally look at my vid...thay caught the bloody fox by digging it out the hole, they had a chance to do the rite thing and shoot it in the head outrite, but they chose to stick the SCARED fox in a sack and then let it go in the path of the foxhounds to rip apart.


sallyanne said:


> If a fox goes to ground they usually use the terriers to flush them out,if they are dug out there shot.
> My husband has been going out with the hunts for years and in this time seen only a handful of foxes killed.


well they aint all like that sally...my video proof of that.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> I notice Sally that you have omitted to answer any of my other points  Neither has anyone commented on how the hounds have killed other dogs in their frenzy to find the fox!


What other points?
I'm trying to keep up with this thread and cook tea 

I've never seen hounds kill other dogs nor has my hubby who has been going out with the hunts since he was 5 yrs old,he's now 46 yrs old so thats 41 yrs.

Nina I presume you've never been out with a hunt so are relying purely on hearsay information,correct me if i'm wrong.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

For goodness sake, this is not a question of opinion though! This is an animals life we are talking about! 

If the huntsmen do not get to see the kill, then why the hell do they do it? Surely drag hunting could surfice? Horses and people go off on their little jollies and no animal gets hurt in the process. A nice day out to be had by all 

Now can we all be friends again


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

bee112 said:


> I have been on fox hunts in the past and you dont get to see the fox being killed as the hounds are that far ahead.. People dont get off on seeing a fox being riped to shreds because you dont see it! plus most of the time the fox gets away.
> 
> I wouldn't say I'm not a decent human being, just that I was brought up riding horses and thats what most horse riders used to do, hunt. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you shouldn't slag people off for it.


totally agree this is what i was trying to say but u put it better lol


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> What other points?
> I'm trying to keep up with this thread and cook tea
> 
> I've never seen hounds kill other dogs nor has my hubby who has been going out with the hunts since he was 5 yrs old,he's now 46 yrs old so thats 41 yrs.
> ...


Yes because alot of people dont know what they are talking about! I have never seen a fox being killed by the dogs!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> wtf sally...of caurse they know their being hunted they know that by the dog barks and the horns blowing and also instinked, and their deffo not running wiv a smily face are they?? they are scared for sure thats obvious.
> 
> sally look at my vid...thay caught the bloody fox by digging it out the hole, they had a chance to do the rite thing and shoot it in the head outrite, but they chose to stick the SCARED fox in a sack and then let it go in the path of the foxhounds to rip apart.
> 
> well they aint all like that sally...my video proof of that.


A study was done and the conclusion was that foxes are no more scared of been chased than when they are chasing prey.

Not all hunts are the same.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

bee112 said:


> Yes because alot of people dont know what they are talking about! I have never seen a fox being killed by the dogs!


we are going by facts bee...u are one of these that dont now wat r talking about.

look at the video's , see the facts....its happening.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

like i said before riders go for the excitment of riding in a large group and for the element of danger,nothing to do with seeing anything killed,as bee said hounds are that far ahead you see nothing!we dont set out with the intent of seeing blood.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> For goodness sake, this is not a question of opinion though! This is an animals life we are talking about!
> 
> If the huntsmen do not get to see the kill, then why the hell do they do it? Surely drag hunting could surfice? Horses and people go off on their little jollies and no animal gets hurt in the process. A nice day out to be had by all
> 
> Now can we all be friends again


OK Nina I understand what you are saying but animals are killed everyday.. mostly for human consumption yet people are fine with that because they are hypocrits! (howevers its spelt!)

Plus you still need to kill a fox to create the scent for drag hunting.. people go on the hunt because they have done it all their lives and it is a good experience.. sorry if you disagree!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Nina I presume you've never been out with a hunt so are relying purely on hearsay information,correct me if i'm wrong.


this is why i dont feel really strongly either way! ive never been on a hunt so i reserve judgement as ive never seen anything for myself


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> we are going by facts bee...u are one of these that dont now wat r talking about.
> 
> look at the video's , see the facts....its happening.


no body knows the facts better than the riders who have hunted!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

claire said:


> this is why i dont feel really strongly either way! ive never been on a hunt so i reserve judgement as ive never seen anything for myself


aint the video's proff enuff wat goes on in hunt????

u dont gotta be ther for real to see the facts.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> no body knows the facts better than the riders who have hunted!


and the people who video them hunting and wat they get upto.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

bee112 said:


> OK Nina I understand what you are saying but animals are killed everyday.. mostly for human consumption yet people are fine with that because they are hypocrits! (howevers its spelt!)


But Bee, you are missing the point here. The fox is NOT killed to eat.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> aint the video's proff enuff wat goes on in hunt????
> 
> u dont gotta be ther for real to see the facts.


Not when it's posted by the Iish council against blood sports,one sided view,of course they want to make it look bad.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> What other points?
> I'm trying to keep up with this thread and cook tea
> 
> My husband cooks my dinner


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> we are going by facts bee...u are one of these that dont now wat r talking about.
> 
> look at the video's , see the facts....its happening.


Yes like with everything there is a bad element.

I do know what I am talking about after being on hunts for the last 20 years!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> aint the video's proff enuff wat goes on in hunt????
> 
> u dont gotta be ther for real to see the facts.


the thing is loe that is only one side of it they are creul in them vids but i dont think every hunt goes like that, thats the extreme sam,e as i said before there are good examples n bad for everything in life


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Not when it's posted by the Iish council against blood sports,one sided view,of course they want to make it look bad.


one sided view lol.

we have seen proof that foxes are ripped apart...thats proof enuff for me sally... no animal should go throw that no matta wat.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

claire said:


> the thing is loe that is only one side of it they are creul in them vids but i dont think every hunt goes like that, thats the extreme sam,e as i said before there are good examples n bad for everything in life


yes thats true..there is good and bad.... but the bad is still happening, and all the wile its aloud its still gonna happen aint it.

so if its ban then the bad people wont be able to do that.

maybe if all these so called good hunters that "dont kill foxes"  report the bad hunters that do kill foxes then we wont be so dead against it.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Nina Cole said:


> But Bee, you are missing the point here. The fox is NOT killed to eat.


No I am not missing the point, the fox is killed to prevent IT killing lambs, chickens etc.

What I am saying is that you disagree with a fox being killed but you are ok with other animals being killed? Whether its for food or not it still feels pain.. idealism just doesnt work unfortunately


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Sorry Bee, unaware that Sainsbury's employs the hunt to kill meat for their supermarkets


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

im off to mingle 

ill leave this thread now coz we really aint getting nowhere really..except calling eachother names lol..

ill leave this thread still thinking hunters are gutless evil animal killing arceholes 

have a nice day


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I agree totally. Passionate subject and tempers frayed. Everyone has strong feelings on this subject, and I am off now to walk my pup before dinner


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## Barney (Feb 24, 2008)

people are saying foxes kill chickens and lambs but that is life, hunting a defenceless scared animal with horses and dogs is WRONG no matter how ya try to dress it up as sport, these people do it for fun,its cruelty for cruelties sake its people who like to bully other living creatures,people who cant hold their own against something the same size and strength as them so they pick on the weak,and that is a bully,they say fox numbers need to be controlled and i agree but there has to be a more humane way of doing it but dont make my arse laugh by saying its sport thats [email protected] if you do it your a bully simple as that that was my 2 cents


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Barney said:


> people are saying foxes kill chickens and lambs but that is life, hunting a defenceless scared animal with horses and dogs is WRONG no matter how ya try to dress it up as sport, these people do it for fun,its cruelty for cruelties sake its people who like to bully other living creatures,people who cant hold their own against something the same size and strength as them so they pick on the weak,and that is a bully,they say fox numbers need to be controlled and i agree but there has to be a more humane way of doing it but dont make my arse laugh by saying its sport thats [email protected] if you do it your a bully simple as that that was my 2 cents


And i like ur penoths worth  couldnt of put it any betta meself barney.


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## Barney (Feb 24, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> And i like ur penoths worth  couldnt of put it any betta meself barney.


cheers  they get on mi tits with it tho


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Although I have never hunted I am a horse owner and certainly not a posh toff. I have had to work my ass off to keep and look after my horses. I knew a farmer a few years ago that had a hell of a time with a fox. I actually saw this fox eating a lamb that the poor ewe was trying to give birth to. Needless to say the ewe was so worried she had to pts. This farmer lost nearly half his flock due to worrying and also the lambs. He spent months trying to shoot the fox but couldn't get it, he wished he could have got a hunt in and I can't blame him.

My family does shoot but they enjoy the company and watching the dogs work. We eat everything that is shot and my Dad once didn't come home till 11pm as a pheasant had run after it had been shot and he didn't want it to suffer. 

It isn't always black and white!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Although I have never hunted I am a horse owner and certainly not a posh toff. I have had to work my ass off to keep and look after my horses. I knew a farmer a few years ago that had a hell of a time with a fox. I actually saw this fox eating a lamb that the poor ewe was trying to give birth to. Needless to say the ewe was so worried she had to pts. This farmer lost nearly half his flock due to worrying and also the lambs. He spent months trying to shoot the fox but couldn't get it, he wished he could have got a hunt in and I can't blame him.
> 
> My family does shoot but they enjoy the company and watching the dogs work. We eat everything that is shot and my Dad once didn't come home till 11pm as a pheasant had run after it had been shot and he didn't want it to suffer.
> 
> It isn't always black and white!


not saying it is always black and white lynsey...but if that farmer couldnt catch this fox for months why didnt he try trapping it wiv one of them HUMANE traps they use in rescues??? would of been worth a try doncha think????


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> i dont think hunts breed foxes!and why do people keep assuming that this is history and doesnt still happen??


www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1341954/Beaufort-Hunt"broke-rules-on-fox-breeding".html


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> not saying it is always black and white lynsey...but if that farmer couldnt catch this fox for months why didnt he try trapping it wiv one of them HUMANE traps they use in rescues??? would of been worth a try doncha think????


He did but this was one crafty sod of a fox, the poor guy tried everything. Even when he brought the ewes inside and was burning pitch to try and keep it away the sod would still try for the lambs!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> He did but this was one crafty sod of a fox, the poor guy tried everything. Even when he brought the ewes inside and was burning pitch to try and keep it away the sod would still try for the lambs!


I knew u was gonna say that 

did he wait for it at night close to the place it was coming to???


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1341954/Beaufort-Hunt"broke-rules-on-fox-breeding".html


feeding fox cubs which had lost their mother to ensure that there were foxes to hunt...sick bleepers


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> i dont think hunts breed foxes!and why do people keep assuming that this is history and doesnt still happen??


I think you'll find they do, the beaufort hunt were caught on undercover video feeding foxes bred to be hunted, they had built them artificial earths the footage was shown on BBC2 s newsnight. DISCUSTING.


----------



## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Although I have never hunted I am a horse owner and certainly not a posh toff. I have had to work my ass off to keep and look after my horses. I knew a farmer a few years ago that had a hell of a time with a fox. I actually saw this fox eating a lamb that the poor ewe was trying to give birth to. Needless to say the ewe was so worried she had to pts. This farmer lost nearly half his flock due to worrying and also the lambs. He spent months trying to shoot the fox but couldn't get it, he wished he could have got a hunt in and I can't blame him.
> 
> My family does shoot but they enjoy the company and watching the dogs work. We eat everything that is shot and my Dad once didn't come home till 11pm as a pheasant had run after it had been shot and he didn't want it to suffer.
> 
> It isn't always black and white!


wat was the pregnant ewe doing out at night anyways???? surely they get taken in wen their due to drop???
and if it was out in the day surely farmers keep a close eye on ewes that are due to drop due to the fact they could hve complications and may need help ???


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> feeding fox cubs which had lost their mother to ensure that there were foxes to hunt...sick bleepers


I agree that is sick. I don't have a problem with people who hunt as long as it is done responsibly. Personally I couldn't do it but that is my choice. I couldn't go hunting with my horses anyway the brakes are faulty and I would never be seen again!!!!


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> wat was the pregnant ewe doing out at night anyways???? surely they get taken in wen their due to drop???
> and if it was out in the day surely farmers keep a close eye on ewes that are due to drop due to the fact they could hve complications???


This was during the day, they were in the field next to the house and I was hacking past on my horse at 2pm in the afternoon when I saw the fox do this. Thing is with foxes they are clever and very sneaky. Also farming is a damn hard life, while they do check on the ewes often there are still fields to plow and sow.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> This was during the day, they were in the field next to the house and I was hacking past on my horse at 2pm in the afternoon when I saw the fox do this. Thing is with foxes they are clever and very sneaky. Also farming is a damn hard life, while they do check on the ewes often there are still fields to plow and sow.


Wasnt saying farming was easy... not like foxes to come out in day tho is it.


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Actually I have seen quite a few foxes out during the day, think it can depend if they are feeding cubs. Did watch a pair playing in the snow in the winter and they were beautiful!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Actually I have seen quite a few foxes out during the day, think it can depend if they are feeding cubs. Did watch a pair playing in the snow in the winter and they were beautiful!


yes they are very pretty, ive sat watching them in the night playing out front.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

so how many of you anti hunting people are vegeterian?

does no one think it's also cruel to hang a pig up by its hid legs and slit its throat when it's fully away?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> so how many of you anti hunting people are vegeterian?
> 
> does no one think it's also cruel to hang a pig up by its hid legs and slit its throat when it's fully away?


yes i do fadey..its very cruel, thats why people are protesting to have them killed in a humane way aswell...but like hunting...all the bad does happen and its all cruel in my eyes.

i h8 any animal getting killed... but if their killed in a humane way and quick then i really prefer that then cruelty ways of killing them.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

Eolabeo said:


> yes i do fadey..its very cruel, thats why people are protesting to have them killed in a humane way aswell...but like hunting...all the bad does happen and its all cruel in my eyes.
> 
> i h8 any animal getting killed... but if their killed in a humane way and quick then i really prefer that then cruelty ways of killing them.


but you still eat pork dont you?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

there is a lot of cruelty in meat production but thats another story.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> there is a lot of cruelty in meat production but thats another story.


but if people buy these meats which are produced cruely then in my eyes it's promoting it.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> but you still eat pork dont you?


no i save that for the muslims.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

Eolabeo said:


> no i save that for the muslims.


 you eat muslims!? shocking loe, very shocking


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> but you still eat pork dont you?


i think there is a vast difference between killing something to eat it ,than killing something cause its fun to chase it
dont you fade!?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> but if people buy these meats which are produced cruely then in my eyes it's promoting it.


i agree, i dont eat meat anyway


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

garryd said:


> i think there is a vast difference between killing something to eat it ,than killing something cause its fun to chase it
> dont you fade!?


look at it this way, the pig was happy in feild then it finds itself stressfully being slaughtered... exactly the same if dogs slaughter foxes? may i add they don't just watch your dog when it catches a squirrel.


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## Barney (Feb 24, 2008)

the differance is those animals are bred to die its their sole purpose they aint born in the wild and hunted down but they should be killed in a more humane way i agree and no i aint a vegetarian


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

garryd said:


> i think there is a vast difference between killing something to eat it ,than killing something cause its fun to chase it
> dont you fade!?


i totally agree with you


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> i agree, i dont eat meat anyway


i eat meat, but then again i'd be a hypocrit if i didn't but agree with fox hunting. 
but do you see what i'm getting at?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

Barney said:


> the differance is those animals are bred to die its their sole purpose they aint born in the wild and hunted down but they should be killed in a more humane way i agree and no i aint a vegetarian


It's still a living animal, they feel it when their throats are cut.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> look at it this way, the pig was happy in feild then it finds itself stressfully being slaughtered... exactly the same if dogs slaughter foxes? may i add they don't just watch your dog when it catches a squirrel.


Thats why protesters are trying to get them killed in humane ways fadey 

the same as we would like to see all fox hunting banned.


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Ok I'm going to be naughty and throw the cat amongst the pigeons!!!! Should we stop the lions and cheetas hunting then because they chase their prey before they kill it and isn't that stressful for the poor gazelle or warthog!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> i eat meat, but then again i'd be a hypocrit if i didn't but agree with fox hunting.
> but do you see what i'm getting at?


i dont think you would be a hypocrite i still think killing for fun is not the same as for food eventhough i could never eat something that has lived & breathed.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Ok I'm going to be naughty and throw the cat amongst the pigeons!!!! Should we stop the lions and cheetas hunting then because they chase their prey before they kill it and isn't that stressful for the poor gazelle or warthog!


how ridiculous, they live as part of an ecosystem, but i think they will soon be extinct in the wild because of the human race.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

Eolabeo said:


> Thats why protesters are trying to get them killed in humane ways fadey
> 
> the same as we would like to see all fox hunting banned.


killing a animal in a humane way means that organic meat cannot exist, who knows what chemicals they'll use and with the rising costs of everything it will mean people won't be able to afford it.

i think the alternative means of fox hunting are worse than the hounds. 
the trouble is if fox hunting is banned out right, more chickens will get killed by them, ou dogs will be at risk of catching all kinds of diseases, cities will become over run. If it happens I just hope we all get discounts at the vets...


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> look at it this way, the pig was happy in feild then it finds itself stressfully being slaughtered... exactly the same if dogs slaughter foxes? may i add they don't just watch your dog when it catches a squirrel.


Surely someone as intelligent as you fade should see theres a great difference between killing an animal for food as apposed to killing it for fun???
You disappoint me fade


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

but as i said before foxes are bred by hunts, so its not about controlling numbers but more about people having "fun"


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

garryd said:


> Surely someone as intelligent as you fade should see theres a great difference between killing an animal for food as apposed to killing it for fun???
> You disappoint me fade


by the way i love steak


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

garryd said:


> Surely someone as intelligent as you fade should see theres a great difference between killing an animal for food as apposed to killing it for fun???
> You disappoint me fade


okay okay. fishing thats a sport it causes the fish pain, as in it was happy and free then it was caught by a fishing line and that stresses it out.

whats the difference between fishing and fox hunting?

I disappoint everyone Garry


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> okay okay. fishing thats a sport it causes the fish pain, as in it was happy and free then it was caught by a fishing line and that stresses it out.
> 
> whats the difference between fishing and fox hunting?
> 
> I disappoint everyone Garry


but people eat the fish


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> but as i said before foxes are bred by hunts, so its not about controlling numbers but more about people having "fun"


then again in one hunt how many are caught? a maximum of 10? 
usually these are the ones who're already ill etc.

shooting for example this kills any fox they happen to come across and they probably kill more. but what happens the the poor buggers who get away with a bullet in its leg - painful death.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> but people eat the fish


still causes the fish pain.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> but people eat the fish


Not always they don't what about Carp?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i have seen quite a few videos of fox hunts & i have to say in all the ones i have seen, the foxes looked incredibly healthy until they were caught by the bigger faster hounds.


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> how ridiculous, they live as part of an ecosystem, but i think they will soon be extinct in the wild because of the human race.


I was intentionally being ridiculous to prove a point! Everything suffers to some degree when it is killed but I am not going to stop eating meat or change my view that hunting should not be banned!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Not always they don't what about Carp?


carp are course fish so they will live to see another day.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> I was intentionally being ridiculous to prove a point! Everything suffers to some degree when it is killed but I am not going to stop eating meat or change my view that hunting should not be banned!


i know you were i just try to put myself in the animals shoes & thank god im not a fox!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> carp are course fish so they will live to see another day.


So they are still hooked and caused pain in doing so.

We go fishing quite alot,nothing quite like a freshly caught cod!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> then again in one hunt how many are caught? a maximum of 10?
> usually these are the ones who're already ill etc.
> 
> shooting for example this kills any fox they happen to come across and they probably kill more. but what happens the the poor buggers who get away with a bullet in its leg - painful death.


oh fadey stop trying to guild the lilly
I ask again ,if fox`s are vermin,why does it take 30 people on horse back and a back of dogs to kill them????
surly there is a much faster way with less fuss to do the job!
Their aint cause they dont wanna lose their fun


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

garryd said:


> oh fadey stop trying to guild the lilly
> I ask again ,if fox`s are vermin,why does it take 30 people on horse back and a back of dogs to kill them????
> surly there is a much faster way with less fuss to do the job!
> Their aint cause they dont wanna lose their fun


So whats the faster way then?


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> carp are course fish so they will live to see another day.


but its still causing the fish stress.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> So whats the faster way then?


 none at all


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

garryd said:


> oh fadey stop trying to guild the lilly
> I ask again ,if fox`s are vermin,why does it take 30 people on horse back and a back of dogs to kill them????
> surly there is a much faster way with less fuss to do the job!
> Their aint cause they dont wanna lose their fun


exactly its all about "fun"


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> but its still causing the fish stress.


still cant compare with being ripped to pieces!


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

garryd said:


> oh fadey stop trying to guild the lilly
> I ask again ,if fox`s are vermin,why does it take 30 people on horse back and a back of dogs to kill them????
> surly there is a much faster way with less fuss to do the job!
> Their aint cause they dont wanna lose their fun


whats the faster way?
put cages down to catch them then put them to sleep with an overdose? 
that way they can be in the cage for a number of hours or days and starve to death instead?


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Fox's can be very difficult to shoot as they can be such wily creatures. In some ways it is quicker for the hounds to do it, disembowelling is a fairly quick way of death. Also it isn't always about the kill for those that hunt, it is the joy of the ride and the company for most. These days it is getting harder to find somewhere suitable to ride and this was one way to do that.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> still cant compare with being ripped to pieces!


the fox is dead before then. 
a dog DOESN'T want to get itself an injury so the first on there kills it in a clock of your fingures. watch your dogs play with toys or catch a squirrel.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Fox's can be very difficult to shoot as they can be such wily creatures. In some ways it is quicker for the hounds to do it, disembowelling is a fairly quick way of death. Also it isn't always about the kill for those that hunt, it is the joy of the ride and the company for most. These days it is getting harder to find somewhere suitable to ride and this was one way to do that.


drag hunting sounds good


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> whats the faster way?
> put cages down to catch them then put them to sleep with an overdose?
> that way they can be in the cage for a number of hours or days and starve to death instead?


Well anything would be better than scareing the poor things half to death by chasing them across Fields on horse back with a pack of savage dogs !
Then to get there legs and head riped off by a group of dogs !
If i was in the Fox's position i would prefer to be shot wouldn't you!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Nina Cole said:


> On an earlier thread, the fact that I stated I was a vegetarian, was immaterial according to some! Now it is being used to justify the argument against hunting - completely bazaar!
> 
> I thought this to be a forum full of animal lovers, how wrong I was


Yes Nina - we all hate animals

I said that I didnt see why anyone feels they have to announce such a thing and your own justification was that as a vegetarian you were aware of animal welfare issues - therefore implying that as a meat eater I am not - wholly untrue.


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

garryd said:


> Well anything would be better than scareing the poor things half to death by chasing them across Fields on horse back with a pack of savage dogs !
> Then to get there legs and head riped off by a group of dogs !
> If i was in the Fox's position i would prefer to be shot wouldn't you!


no because the bullet would end up missing and takinglonger to kill me, i'd rather die in a second having my neck broken. by the time the dogs rip me apart i'd already be dead.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> no because the bullet would end up missing and takinglonger to kill me, i'd rather die in a second having my neck broken. by the time the dogs rip me apart i'd already be dead.


i just sent you a video ,watch that and then tell me you wouldnt rather be shot!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> but people eat the fish


I most certainly dont eat the fish I catch - I operate a catch and release policy always - its the thrill of the catch and then the thrill of seeing the fish swim off.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> whats the faster way?
> put cages down to catch them then put them to sleep with an overdose?
> that way they can be in the cage for a number of hours or days and starve to death instead?


they can check em daily carnt they... they can take asmuch time walking around checking cages as it would take a hunt


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> i dont think you would be a hypocrite i still think killing for fun is not the same as for food eventhough i could never eat something that has lived & breathed.


If we are gonna talk about other animals - my cat used to kill for fun - you should have seen her hunt a mouse then carry it to the middle of the lawn, then she'd let it go and it would nearly make it to the edge of the lawn and she'd haul it back, throw it around a bit then let it go again, only to catch it again and repeat the game. She certainly didnt need it for food, I'm quite sure she didnt eat any of it


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Jo P said:


> If we are gonna talk about other animals - my cat used to kill for fun - you should have seen her hunt a mouse then carry it to the middle of the lawn, then she'd let it go and it would nearly make it to the edge of the lawn and she'd haul it back, throw it around a bit then let it go again, only to catch it again and repeat the game. She certainly didnt need it for food, I'm quite sure she didnt eat any of it


MURDER THE CATS I SAY MURDER THE CATS 

ps..i am joking btw


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Too late Loe - I already did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a non-animal lover thats what ya do when ya cat is a wee [email protected]


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

My mate here loves cats 
He just wants to play with them real hard


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

He looks like a pussy cat himself


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Too late Loe - I already did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> As a non-animal lover thats what ya do when ya cat is a wee [email protected]


lmfao hahaha 


garryd said:


> My mate here loves cats
> He just wants to play with them real hard


u are gonna get all them cat peeps in the forum get u for that... imma gonna pop down and squill on ya haha


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Jo P said:


> He looks like a pussy cat himself


yeh he do


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jo P said:


> If we are gonna talk about other animals - my cat used to kill for fun - you should have seen her hunt a mouse then carry it to the middle of the lawn, then she'd let it go and it would nearly make it to the edge of the lawn and she'd haul it back, throw it around a bit then let it go again, only to catch it again and repeat the game. She certainly didnt need it for food, I'm quite sure she didnt eat any of it


i was talking about foxes i was asked what i thought of eating meat
my huskies have killed things but thats what animals do!

by the way i love your EBT garryd


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

and I was talking about my cat


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jo P said:


> and I was talking about my cat


sorry dont know what point youre trying to make


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

That my cat kills for fun not food - is it that hard to grasp


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jo P said:


> That my cat kills for fun not food - is it that hard to grasp


oh youre comparing your cat with fox hunters


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Dont be silly - she cant ride a horse


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Dont be silly - she cant ride a horse


i was just going to reply with lol but it was to short


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Just like her legs - they dont reach the stirrups


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

So are foxes hunted to control their numbers or for the thrill of the hunt then? Because it seems to keep changing depending on the opposing points.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i would say most definatly for "pleasure" or else why would hunts breed foxes


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> i would say most definatly for "pleasure" or else why would hunts breed foxes


what makes you think they do?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> So are foxes hunted to control their numbers or for the thrill of the hunt then? Because it seems to keep changing depending on the opposing points.


It would seem from the replies on here from the pro-hunters that the main reason is the thrill of the hunt - they just throw in the excuse about it being to control numbers of foxes to try to justify their actions. I'm basing this on the theory that there are far more humane - and efficient  - ways to control numbers of foxes than hunting them.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> i
> 
> by the way i love your EBT garryd


thanks i will tell him


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> what makes you think they do?


if you look at my earlier posts the evidence is there, also we knew someone who worked for a hunt & as ive said befor he was very open about things!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

garryd said:


> thanks i will tell him


my friend had one they are great dogs


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> usually these are the ones who're already ill etc.


If it's the ones that are ill that get caught then there's no point is there, why kill a fox to control the population that is dying anyway? 



spellweaver said:


> It would seem from the replies on here from the pro-hunters that the main reason is the thrill of the hunt - they just throw in the excuse about it being to control numbers of foxes to try to justify their actions. I'm basing this on the theory that there are far more humane - and efficient  - ways to control numbers of foxes than hunting them.


That's what it seems like to me too. I really can't see any justification for it at all.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

No one needs to justify it anymore cos its banned and it'll never, ever happen again


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Jo P said:


> No one needs to justify it anymore cos its banned and it'll never, ever happen again


I've been around long enough to know you aren't that daft Jo!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

What Al - you dont think it'll still be going on now do ya??????

Thats like saying people still smoke in pubs or own Pitbulls - it'll never happen in a gazillion years


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2008)

Jo P said:


> What Al - you dont think it'll still be going on now do ya??????
> 
> Thats like saying people still smoke in pubs or own Pitbulls - it'll never happen in a gazillion years


...................


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Although I have never hunted I am a horse owner and certainly not a posh toff. I have had to work my ass off to keep and look after my horses. I knew a farmer a few years ago that had a hell of a time with a fox. I actually saw this fox eating a lamb that the poor ewe was trying to give birth to. Needless to say the ewe was so worried she had to pts. This farmer lost nearly half his flock due to worrying and also the lambs. He spent months trying to shoot the fox but couldn't get it, he wished he could have got a hunt in and I can't blame him.
> 
> My family does shoot but they enjoy the company and watching the dogs work. We eat everything that is shot and my Dad once didn't come home till 11pm as a pheasant had run after it had been shot and he didn't want it to suffer.
> 
> It isn't always black and white!


okay back from a wedding had a alot to drink but still appallled  From your post Can I ask Why you stood and watched a lamb being eaten by a fox that a ewe was giving birth too


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

bee112 said:


> Yes like with everything there is a bad element.
> 
> I do know what I am talking about after being on hunts for the last 20 years!


Aha got someone who has hunted at last Can I ask you as I have asked this question 3 times now to Pro's How do you feel when you watch the fox being ripped apart at the end ??And I would dearly love this question answered from all the Pro's, not had much luck? Why????????


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Fade to Grey said:


> so how many of you anti hunting people are vegeterian?
> 
> does no one think it's also cruel to hang a pig up by its hid legs and slit its throat when it's fully away?


IMO vegatatarians are nothing to do with the way they kill foxes,anyway never seen/ heard of a Fox curry anyway. I do not eat meat due to the fatty feel against my teeth only and still am appalled at the way the foxes have to be chased and then ripped apart


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Jo P said:


> No one needs to justify it anymore cos its banned and it'll never, ever happen again


But an earlier post stated that it is still going on Jo


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

clueless said:


> Aha got someone who has hunted at last Can I ask you as I have asked this question 3 times now to Pro's How do you feel when you watch the fox being ripped apart at the end ??And I would dearly love this question answered from all the Pro's, not had much luck? Why????????


We go out with the hunts,we take our kids too and I've never seen a fox caught and ripped to pieces,Hubby has seen only a handful caught,it doesn't bother him,but been brought up on a farm I suppose it's just a way of life.



Nina Cole said:


> But an earlier post stated that it is still going on Jo


Do you really believe it's not?
As I stated in a previous thread we have active BSL which bans the Pitbull,I bet we have more in the UK now than when the ban was brought in in 1991,same with dog fighting it's illegal but it still goes on.

As far as I'm concerned it's another piece of useless legislation.Cases have gone to court for hunting with hounds,they have either been thrown out or convictions overturned - says alot for the legislation don't you think.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Barney said:


> people are saying foxes kill chickens and lambs but that is life, hunting a defenceless scared animal with horses and dogs is WRONG no matter how ya try to dress it up as sport, these people do it for fun,its cruelty for cruelties sake its people who like to bully other living creatures,people who cant hold their own against something the same size and strength as them so they pick on the weak,and that is a bully,they say fox numbers need to be controlled and i agree but there has to be a more humane way of doing it but dont make my arse laugh by saying its sport thats [email protected] if you do it your a bully simple as that that was my 2 cents


feel better now grumpy,


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Nina Cole said:


> But an earlier post stated that it is still going on Jo


And my post was tongue in cheek Nina - as Alan rightly noticed


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

At the risk of loosing more friends -cos I did the last time I posted this



tashi said:


> I have stayed out of this up until now and can I say that this is a well written post I was born when both my parents were in hunt service - probably not out of choice - but they were employed to look after the horses in a time when there wasnt a great deal of work especially where my father was from and the choice there was coal mine or coal mine!!! So I grew up with it and it is now a source of income for both my brother and my brother in law! In a society where jobs and money are scarce you have to take what is on offer and yes, I did hunt and no I am not toffee-nosed or a snob.


And to add to this when we did hunt (and perhaps ours was a more respectable hunt) we never bred foxes to 'chase' and I would say 9 times out of 10 the fox was shot by the Master first!!! The hounds were kept in superb conditions and the horses were too. They were fed a barf diet and meal exercised everyday by bike and then again in the afternoon in a big field. And yes I was 'blooded' as being the offspring of hunt staff it was the done thing.

I am an animal lover through and through and if any of you saw the real carnage caused by a fox we have lost about 20 lambs in one night to a fox and he only took one for his young!! and we also lost foals as well dont do chickens cos I dont like them!!

I think a fox is a lovely animal BUT there is a need to keep the population down, my OH is a marksman and he says to kill a fox outright with a rifle at night is almost impossible unless you have a powerful weapon and good night sites something the average farmer these days cannot afford to have! so they turn to snares and traps which only maim if they 'happen' to close on the wrong area of the fox that is not around the poor animals neck!!!!!!!!!!

My father came from a mining community background and my grandfather died due to the coal dust which claimed his health when my father was young so he was encouraged to go and work with horses instead of going down the pit, it was not a well-paid job but there was a roof over our heads as it came with the job. I am not a snob, toffee-nosed or anything else on here that has been said about the hunting fraternity but now feel that alot of you on here are very mis-informed and are obviously not at all aware of what it is like to live in the real outback areas of the country! Foxes dont kill to eat they kill for pleasure and they dont kill rats or mice we have cats for that although that is if the foxes dont get them!! They have been known to kill a litter of pups, and pet rabbits.

So will post this with the risk of most of you loosing any respect for me you ever had, and will have to see if I will still be welcome on the forum for 'ANIMAL LOVERS' after I press the submit button.

Going to the bunker now with my tin helmet on and my dogs that I hate oh and the rabbit that I rescued and obviously dont love.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

tashi said:


> At the risk of loosing more friends -cos I did the last time I posted this
> 
> And to add to this when we did hunt (and perhaps ours was a more respectable hunt) we never bred foxes to 'chase' and I would say 9 times out of 10 the fox was shot by the Master first!!! The hounds were kept in superb conditions and the horses were too. They were fed a barf diet and meal exercised everyday by bike and then again in the afternoon in a big field. And yes I was 'blooded' as being the offspring of hunt staff it was the done thing.
> 
> ...


tashi i dont feel any different about ya! your family did what was needed to put food on the table n this is my arguement,,,,,,,,, i dont like hunting with dogs but dont believe people like your family should be made out to be bad for doing it, it was a way of life right or wrong n put food on the table. I know if most people were put in a situation to work wiether it be morally right or wrong they would. A job is a job n money makes the world go round, so i dont like hunting but people who work to look after their families i have a hard time callin


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

tashi said:


> At the risk of loosing more friends -cos I did the last time I posted this
> 
> And to add to this when we did hunt (and perhaps ours was a more respectable hunt) we never bred foxes to 'chase' and I would say 9 times out of 10 the fox was shot by the Master first!!! The hounds were kept in superb conditions and the horses were too. They were fed a barf diet and meal exercised everyday by bike and then again in the afternoon in a big field. And yes I was 'blooded' as being the offspring of hunt staff it was the done thing.
> 
> ...


I certainly don't think any less of you,
It's a way of life,the countryside way of life and if people critisize you or you loose friends through it then in my opinion there not friends.
Your family did what they had to, to survive.

I must admit I was a little suprized by reading some of the posts against hunting how simplistic and narrow minded they are proving that they really know nothing of the countryside,you will find most that disagree with hunts are townies, as my hubby puts it!


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

I think it's just more of a case of looking at things from a different perspective.. I dont live in the countryside but I can totally understand what it must be like for farmers to have to cope with the loss of lambs, chickens and other farm animals...

I am totally shocked that some one has lost a foal to a fox.. thats awful.

I have been on many hunts in the past and never once even saw a fox as they are that far ahead! 

Think people just need to learn to respect others views and the reasons behind them.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

tashi said:


> So will post this with the risk of most of you loosing any respect for me you ever had, and will have to see if I will still be welcome on the forum for 'ANIMAL LOVERS' after I press the submit button.


I'm not yer friend now! 

What you've posted makes sense, but then theres others saying they do it for the "thrill of the hunt" or "a good day out" and that just doesn't sit right with me, what's fun about chasing a poor fox with all your mates, it just amounts to bullying _in my opinion_? If it's a necessary evil then that's that but just going on a hunt for a day out is wrong_ in my opinion_.

Do you think it could be done more humanly Julie? Or do you honestly think traditional hunting is the most humane way? I'm genuinly asking because I respect your opinion.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

tashi said:


> At the risk of loosing more friends -cos I did the last time I posted this
> 
> So will post this with the risk of most of you loosing any respect for me you ever had, and will have to see if I will still be welcome on the forum for 'ANIMAL LOVERS' after I press the submit button.
> 
> Going to the bunker now with my tin helmet on and my dogs that I hate oh and the rabbit that I rescued and obviously dont love.


Tashi, I can't believe anyone on this forum would be small-minded enough to either stop being friends or not welcome you on the forum just because your opinion differs from theirs. 

In fact I would like to extend this to all forum members - between us we cover a wide example of backgrounds and experience, so whatever subject we discuss we are going to agree with some opinions and disagree with others. It is the _opinion_ we are either agreeing/disagreeing with, not the person. Even when the subject is an emotive one, and people feel really passionately about their own particular stance, I would hope that we are all adult enough to realise that we can have differing opinions and yet still remain friends.

OK, preaching over  - I just couldn't bear to think that such an experienced, helpful and informative forum member as Tashi was actually feeling that she may no longer be welcome!


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I must admit I was a little suprized by reading some of the posts against hunting how simplistic and narrow minded they are proving that they really know nothing of the countryside,you will find most that disagree with hunts are townies, as my hubby puts it!


Totally disgree with that. I spent a lot of time with my gran as a child, she lived in the countryside and had chickens, geese and goats as well as cats and dogs, her land backed onto a wooded area that was rife with foxes. She didn't have a gun, she didn't have hunts going through. She only ever had one problem with foxes as I remember and then she took extra measures to keep her animals safe and secure which didn't involve any foxes losing their lives. She's lived in the country all her life and is totally against hunting.

Maybe if the pro-hunting explained to us "simplistic and narrow minded" people why it is so necessary then we might understand. That it's traditional and a good ride doesn't make me think it's necessary.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Totally disgree with that. I spent a lot of time with my gran as a child, she lived in the countryside and had chickens, geese and goats as well as cats and dogs, her land backed onto a wooded area that was rife with foxes. She didn't have a gun, she didn't have hunts going through. She only ever had one problem with foxes as I remember and then she took extra measures to keep her animals safe and secure which didn't involve any foxes losing their lives. She's lived in the country all her life and is totally against hunting.
> 
> Maybe if the pro-hunting explained to us "simplistic and narrow minded" people why it is so necessary then we might understand. That it's traditional and a good ride doesn't make me think it's necessary.


Very well said i have lived in the countryside all my life there are no hunts around us & we are not knee deep in foxes, my father in law has a smallholding & has never lost so much as a single chicken to a fox, he makes sure his animals are secure.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Totally disgree with that. I spent a lot of time with my gran as a child, she lived in the countryside and had chickens, geese and goats as well as cats and dogs, her land backed onto a wooded area that was rife with foxes. She didn't have a gun, she didn't have hunts going through. She only ever had one problem with foxes as I remember and then she took extra measures to keep her animals safe and secure which didn't involve any foxes losing their lives. She's lived in the country all her life and is totally against hunting.
> 
> Maybe if the pro-hunting explained to us "simplistic and narrow minded" people why it is so necessary then we might understand. That it's traditional and a good ride doesn't make me think it's necessary.


There's always one ain't there lol 

I think the majority that disagree with hunting is those that live in towns or don't understand about the countryside and farming.
It's different for Farmers that have alot of livestock and have lambs,young turkey's,chickens etc.My Father in law had animals until the foot and mouth crisis and no matter how hard you try you simply can't protect them all from foxes.They had guns and yes they used to shoot foxes as well as allow the hunt through their land.

It was all about animal welfare that's why the ban was brought in,now surely if it's the animal's welfare they are concerned about,why allow foxes to be shot and wounded, and trapped.
Surely it's in the animals best interest to be killed instantly than to suffer a painful death - that's not animal welfare.

My husband was brought up with hunting,not for the thrill or a good day but to keep the fox numbers under control,been brought up on a farm and seeing damage this vermin does,it was how they dealt with the situation,it was there way of life,whether it's was right or wrong.Farming isn't an easy life it's damn hard work and to have alot of your animals slaughtered by foxes is heartbreaking.There was nights when they used to wait up for them so they could shoot them,but you can't get them all and often miss your target or badly injure them,not kill them.

I can honestly say in 41 yrs he has only seen a handful of foxes caught by the hounds and killed.I go to the hunts and in all the time I've gone I've never seen a fox killed.
More foxes escape from the hounds than are actually killed by them.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> Very well said i have lived in the countryside all my life there are no hunts around us & we are not knee deep in foxes, my father in law has a smallholding & has never lost so much as a single chicken to a fox, he makes sure his animals are secure.


There's always a first time.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> There's always a first time.


so you think its right to erradicate them just incase


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> so you think its right to erradicate them just incase


I never said that,I said there is always a first time,so how would you deal with the situation then?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

well i can asure you my father in law would never persecute an animal for being an animal ,he would put it down to his own mistake


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> so you think its right to erradicate them just incase


Why do you keep saying that????? No-one has ever said that they should be eradicated EVER!!! The point made was that the numbers should be controlled - end of.

Good on ya Julie - I dont think less of you for your absolutely honest post - I think more of ya (((HUGS)))


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> There's always one ain't there lol
> 
> I think the majority that disagree with hunting is those that live in towns or don't understand about the countryside and farming.
> It's different for Farmers that have alot of livestock and have lambs,young turkey's,chickens etc.My Father in law had animals until the foot and mouth crisis and no matter how hard you try you simply can't protect them all from foxes.They had guns and yes they used to shoot foxes as well as allow the hunt through their land.
> ...


sally u keep bringing up about its best they die being riped apart because there is no other way and it is quick.....there is otha ways and u know that, i showed u proof that there is ways, the way being they can dig it out its hole, so stop saying its best they die being riped apart coz its quicker...THERE IS OTHER WAYS...so stop using the same excuse time and time again.
never have seen an answer from u regarding the digging that fx out and them throwing it to the hounds  wonder why 


noushka05 said:


> so you think its right to erradicate them just incase





sallyanne said:


> I never said that,I said there is always a first time,so how would you deal with the situation then?


so because a fox could maybe kill one chicken ( always a first time as u say ) we best rush and get on our horses???

all it takes is proper safty for chickens etc.... u cant tell me foxes can get throw strong thick wireing an fencing because my dad have it all round his garden to protect his koi carp wich foxes was trying to get a couple of time...its kept then out.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> well i can asure you my father in law would never persecute an animal for being an animal ,he would put it down to his own mistake


Good on him - has he been 'sainted' yet


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Why do you keep saying that????? No-one has ever said that they should be eradicated EVER!!! The point made was that the numbers should be controlled - end of.
> 
> Good on ya Julie - I dont think less of you for your absolutely honest post - I think more of ya (((HUGS)))


& why do you keep saying its about controlling numbers when hunts breed foxes!


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Why do you keep saying that????? No-one has ever said that they should be eradicated EVER!!! The point made was that the numbers should be controlled - end of.
> 
> Good on ya Julie - I dont think less of you for your absolutely honest post - I think more of ya (((HUGS)))


Controlled in a humane way...and there is humane ways so dont gimmi that balls**t.

all ive heard is excuses for them people to get on there horses and rip an animal apart, END OFF.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

They arent excuses Loe - if you believe in what you do then you dont need an excuse to do it. No need to SHOUT!!

And Nou why do you keep saying 'they' breed foxes to hunt - where's your proof, thats a libelous statement - and why lump all hunts together - some may have disgusting practises, others will not.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Jo P said:


> They arent excuses Loe - if you believe in what you do then you dont need an excuse to do it. No need to SHOUT!!
> 
> And Nou why do you keep saying 'they' breed foxes to hunt - where's your proof, thats a libelous statement - and why lump all hunts together - some may have disgusting practises, others will not.


youve shouted just the same jo- so no need to shout back at ya 

it is EXCUSES...and i woulda thort u of all people would be agaisnt an animal being ripped apart.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jo P said:


> They arent excuses Loe - if you believe in what you do then you dont need an excuse to do it. No need to SHOUT!!
> 
> And Nou why do you keep saying 'they' breed foxes to hunt - where's your proof, thats a libelous statement - and why lump all hunts together - some may have disgusting practises, others will not.


nothing libelous in anything i've said, the beaufort hunt the one prince charles rides for even got caught on camera! god only knows what else goes on in this shameful "sport"

DISCUSTING you said it


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

They should try spending the money on protecting there animals wiv good strong equipment ratha then spend it out on the hunters.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> They should try spending the money on protecting there animals wiv good strong equipment ratha then spend it out on the hunters.


i agree they could also use guardian dogs who are used all over the world to protect sheep.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> sally u keep bringing up about its best they die being riped apart because there is no other way and it is quick.....there is otha ways and u know that, i showed u proof that there is ways, the way being they can dig it out its hole, so stop saying its best they die being riped apart coz its quicker...THERE IS OTHER WAYS...so stop using the same excuse time and time again.
> never have seen an answer from u regarding the digging that fx out and them throwing it to the hounds  wonder why
> 
> so because a fox could maybe kill one chicken ( always a first time as u say ) we best rush and get on our horses???
> ...


In all honesty I've never seen a fox dig out and thrown to the hounds,
Foxes don't just kill one animal if there's 50 they will kill them all and take only one.
Name another way that doesn't cause suffering then Loe,I've asked this previously several times yet nobody has given me an answer.

Koi Carp are a little different to lambs turkey's and chicken's don't you think?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> In all honesty I've never seen a fox dig out and thrown to the hounds,
> Foxes don't just kill one animal if there's 50 they will kill them all and take only one.
> Name another way that doesn't cause suffering then Loe,I've asked this previously several times yet nobody has given me an answer.
> 
> Koi Carp are a little different to lambs turkey's and chicken's don't you think?


we are surrounded by countryside here, theres all sorts of livestock & there has never been a hunt here as far as i'm aware & we are not over run by foxes if pro hunters are really honest it is just for "pleasure".


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> In all honesty I've never seen a fox dig out and thrown to the hounds,
> Foxes don't just kill one animal if there's 50 they will kill them all and take only one.
> Name another way that doesn't cause suffering then Loe,I've asked this previously several times yet nobody has given me an answer.
> 
> Koi Carp are a little different to lambs turkey's and chicken's don't you think?


yes koi carps are alittle diff then lamb etc...but my dad likes em and wanted them protected and he did just that wiv the proper protection...thve never caught anymore.

As for youve never seen hunters dig them out and throw them to the hounds...ive posted quite a num of pages back a vid to prove this....as i said in my comment about that vid..why didnt they shot it there and then?? why did they let it go to the hounds??? because they enjoy it thats why.

Another way to kill foxes that dont caurse suffering is to catch them in the humane traps they use in rescues and spend time going around checking these traps on there way round excersizing the horse and dogs rather then spend there time on a hunt ripping foxes apart, and when they come across a trapped fox, shoot it in the head on their travels....that way the fox can be killed wiv a single bullet to the head...just as quick as getting riped apart doncha think???

either that or as i said...pay out for better protection instead of paying hunters.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> we are surrounded by countryside here, theres all sorts of livestock & there has never been a hunt here as far as i'm aware & we are not over run by foxes if pro hunters are really honest it is just for "pleasure".


Ok,whatever.
You think what you like,not arguing about it since you seem to know about all the hunts up and down the uk.
Lets hope you don't have any problems with foxes then.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Anyways i am off to clean up  Ave a good day all


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> yes koi carps are alittle diff then lamb etc...but my dad likes em and wanted them protected and he did just that wiv the proper protection...thve never caught anymore.
> 
> As for youve never seen hunters dig them out and throw them to the hounds...ive posted quite a num of pages back a vid to prove this....as i said in my comment about that vid..why didnt they shot it there and then?? why did they let it go to the hounds??? because they enjoy it thats why.
> 
> ...


And as I said the video was from the Irish council against blood sports,so not a true and fair insight really.I don't do propaganda,I look at the facts read all the information out there then make my own mind up.
As for farmers using traps,they are busy people and when the lambing season starts they don't have enough hours in the day,they have enough to do without going round looking in traps.

I don't see how trapping them will prevent them slaughtering livestock.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Ok,whatever.
> You think what you like,not arguing about it since you seem to know about all the hunts up and down the uk.
> Lets hope you don't have any problems with foxes then.


seems like i've touched a nerve

never had a problem before & i would bet a large majority of fox "problems" in the pro hunting areas, are just anti fox propaganda!

anyway got to go, see you later


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> There's always one ain't there lol
> 
> I think the majority that disagree with hunting is those that live in towns or don't understand about the countryside and farming.
> It's different for Farmers that have alot of livestock and have lambs,young turkey's,chickens etc.My Father in law had animals until the foot and mouth crisis and no matter how hard you try you simply can't protect them all from foxes.They had guns and yes they used to shoot foxes as well as allow the hunt through their land.
> ...





noushka05 said:


> seems like i've touched a nerve
> 
> never had a problem before & i would bet a large majority of fox "problems" in the pro hunting areas, are just anti fox propaganda!
> 
> anyway got to go, see you later


I already explained in this post it wasn't out of "pleasure" as you put it.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

I think this argument could go on forever!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I think ya right Bee - the antis just cant see that for alot of people it is a necessary job, not just a pleasure. This really is a futile arguement anyway cos hunting has been banned.
Loe as I've said before I'm pro-choice and as such can see things from both sides - nothing for me is ever black and white - there is always a grey area. I've heard of farmers livestock being devastated by a fox attack - and also watched foxes in the wild playing with their cubs - for me both sides have valid points to make.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Jo P said:


> I think ya right Bee - the antis just cant see that for alot of people it is a necessary job, not just a pleasure. This really is a futile arguement anyway cos hunting has been banned.
> Loe as I've said before I'm pro-choice and as such can see things from both sides - nothing for me is ever black and white - there is always a grey area. I've heard of farmers livestock being devastated by a fox attack - and also watched foxes in the wild playing with their cubs - for me both sides have valid points to make.


i can also see things from both sides, im glad its banned i am against it but i also see why it was done and how it benifited people, livestock and poultry


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

ajshep1984 said:


> I'm not yer friend now!
> 
> What you've posted makes sense, but then theres others saying they do it for the "thrill of the hunt" or "a good day out" and that just doesn't sit right with me, what's fun about chasing a poor fox with all your mates, it just amounts to bullying _in my opinion_? If it's a necessary evil then that's that but just going on a hunt for a day out is wrong_ in my opinion_.
> 
> Do you think it could be done more humanly Julie? Or do you honestly think traditional hunting is the most humane way? I'm genuinly asking because I respect your opinion.


Thankyou for that and quite honestly the answer is NO I dont say that I agree with the way some of you on here say they have witnessed the KILL as most of ours were shot first so were dead before the hounds had their quarry but have been in tears when we have been called to a litter that have been gassed in a den and are half way dead, or have been to a trap that the fox has literally tried to chew off his/her leg to get free also ones that have been shot -badly and gangrene has set in.

Farmers arent marksmen and as I said before my oh was an army marksman and he would never take potshots at a fox in the dusk or night their movements are too unpredictable.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> & why do you keep saying its about controlling numbers when hunts breed foxes!


Noushka I dont know what part of Poland you live in but we didnt breed foxes to kill them we had enough without breeding our own and let me tell you now if we had bred them do you think as kids they wouldnt have been our pets I love and adore all my animals.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> i agree they could also use guardian dogs who are used all over the world to protect sheep.


I thought it was Poland  must be cloud cuckoo land


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Name another way that doesn't cause suffering then Loe,I've asked this previously several times yet nobody has given me an answer.


Sallyanne, I would agree that trapping, or shooting at night by a farmer trying to protect his livestock, is probably no better for a fox than being hunted by a pack of hounds. However, given that the whole point of the exercise is to control the numbers of foxes so that the farmer won't have to do this, surely a daytime cull by expert marksmen is a more humane -and a more efficient - way to do it?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

tashi said:


> Noushka I dont know what part of Poland you live in but we didnt breed foxes to kill them we had enough without breeding our own and let me tell you now if we had bred them do you think as kids they wouldnt have been our pets I love and adore all my animals.


i dont know about you personally, but why not have a look on the search engines to find the literature on hunts breeding foxes.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

tashi said:


> Thankyou for that and quite honestly the answer is NO I dont say that I agree with the way some of you on here say they have witnessed the KILL as most of ours were shot first so were dead before the hounds had their quarry but have been in tears when we have been called to a litter that have been gassed in a den and are half way dead, or have been to a trap that the fox has literally tried to chew off his/her leg to get free also ones that have been shot -badly and gangrene has set in.
> 
> Farmers arent marksmen and as I said before my oh was an army marksman and he would never take potshots at a fox in the dusk or night their movements are too unpredictable.


so are you saying that farmers wont kill foxes by other means if fox hunting continues?


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> so are you saying that farmers wont kill foxes by other means if fox hunting continues?


im not commenting on this thread anymore lol, i think people have made there point now n are just arguing for arguings sake so will leave ya all to get on with it have fun


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> so are you saying that farmers wont kill foxes by other means if fox hunting continues?


That is exactly what I am saying that is what is happening now half dead foxes I have a friend that is an officer in the rspca and the amount they take in that have been badly shot, or caught in traps and with gangrene etc and I for one think that gassing them is a slow and painful death like taking your own life with an exhaust.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

tashi said:


> That is exactly what I am saying that is what is happening now half dead foxes I have a friend that is an officer in the rspca and the amount they take in that have been badly shot, or caught in traps and with gangrene etc and I for one think that gassing them is a slow and painful death like taking your own life with an exhaust.


so farmers never killed foxes before the ban?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> so farmers never killed foxes before the ban?


Yes they did and sometimes got it wrong as well.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

I have already asked a question that I would have liked answered by Hunt people. I have had 2 answers. Now all us seemingly Anti's are being called this that and the other because we have never been on a hunt so do not know what happens, do not get the full story etc apart from reading about the way a fox is treated.
Going by the answers I read, I do believe then that the ones who have hunted have never actually seen the kill, they state that the fox is shot by head of hunt yadda, yadda so next question---------
How do you Hunt people really know that the fox did not get caught and ripped apart like the way Anti's have posted vids and info etc..


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I think this thread is done. We're just going alround the houses and back again IMHO.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

tashi said:


> Yes they did and sometimes got it wrong as well.


well your last statement has just contradicted your earlier statement


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clueless said:


> I have already asked a question that I would have liked answered by Hunt people. I have had 2 answers. Now all us seemingly Anti's are being called this that and the other because we have never been on a hunt so do not know what happens, do not get the full story etc apart from reading about the way a fox is treated.
> Going by the answers I read, I do believe then that the ones who have hunted have never actually seen the kill, they state that the fox is shot by head of hunt yadda, yadda so next question---------
> How do you Hunt people really know that the fox did not get caught and ripped apart like the way Anti's have posted vids and info etc..


because the master and whipper in are right up there with the hounds if they are worth their salt!


----------



## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> well your last statement has just contradicted your earlier statement


tell me where I have contradicted myself killing of foxes by farmers has always gone on but very badly in some cases.


----------



## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Noushka.. she doesn't have to justify anything to you.. just leave it!!


----------



## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> i dont know about you personally, but why not have a look on the search engines to find the literature on hunts breeding foxes.


Ok so you have found evidence but that is not the norm and you are only reading seeing and listening to what you want to. I grew up with it and it was the norm I never knew any different it wasnt politics then it was a family way of life that put a roof over our heads food on the table and clothes on our back in a time when jobs were pretty few and far between - we lived on the bread line and it was as normal to us as arguing is to you


----------



## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

dh.dti said:


> Are you still flogging that dead horse...


Thats another topic altogether Darren


----------



## Barney (Feb 24, 2008)

claire said:


> im not commenting on this thread anymore lol, i think people have made there point now n are just arguing for arguings sake so will leave ya all to get on with it have fun


i agree its just goin in circles


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

tashi said:


> tell me where I have contradicted myself killing of foxes by farmers has always gone on but very badly in some cases.


you have contradicted yourself by saying that farmers WONT kill foxes by other means if fox hunting continues & yet you say farmers DID kill them before the ban ie when foxes WERE being hunted with hounds


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> because the master and whipper in are right up there with the hounds if they are worth their salt!


Yes that has been posted, but I wanted to know How do the rest of the Hunt know what really happened to the fox at the end of their hunt?


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> you have contradicted yourself by saying that farmers WONT kill foxes by other means if fox hunting continues & yet you say farmers DID kill them before the ban ie when foxes WERE being hunted with hounds


***yawn***


----------



## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

What are you on about Noushka?? Fox hunting is banned - fox hunting cant continue cos its banned


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

tashi said:


> Ok so you have found evidence but that is not the norm and you are only reading seeing and listening to what you want to. I grew up with it and it was the norm I never knew any different it wasnt politics then it was a family way of life that put a roof over our heads food on the table and clothes on our back in a time when jobs were pretty few and far between - we lived on the bread line and it was as normal to us as arguing is to you


I'm not interested in politics i just hate cruelty & where is your evidence backing the "norm"


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

arrgghhh give it a rest please.. can we get a Mod to delete this thread for heavnens sake!


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)




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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> you have contradicted yourself by saying that farmers WONT kill foxes by other means if fox hunting continues & yet you say farmers DID kill them before the ban ie when foxes WERE being hunted with hounds


Wow 
I bet that took alot to work out 

I already explained in one of my posts even when the hunt was going across my father in laws land,they still would shoot them.

Can I ask how you anti's would feel if the ban was overturned/repealed ?


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

do you know what i find amazing!?? I cant beleave hes been banned for a couple of months now yet we are all still on one of his threads magik love him or hate him he did draw a crowd


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

bee112 said:


> arrgghhh give it a rest please.. can we get a Mod to delete this thread for heavnens sake!


agreed....................it very boring n verging on a personal attack


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> I'm not interested in politics i just hate cruelty & where is your evidence backing the "norm"


Sorry noushka but you are now getting into the personal zone I could post hundreds of photos on here and videos of a normal day in the life of a hunt servant child but I dont think they would be accepted 

What was your normal family life!!!!


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)




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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

cig anyone??? beer maybe ???


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> cig anyone??? beer maybe ???


would love a beer


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

noushka05 said:


> you have contradicted yourself by saying that farmers WONT kill foxes by other means if fox hunting continues & yet you say farmers DID kill them before the ban ie when foxes WERE being hunted with hounds


I havent said that they kill them by shooting them, gassing them snareing them trapping them the evidence is not pretty and not suitable for a forum with children accessing


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

lets not argue ! i love every one  even you darren


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clueless said:


> Yes that has been posted, but I wanted to know How do the rest of the Hunt know what really happened to the fox at the end of their hunt?


Cos they are right up there with it doh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> yeah a beer as soon as i get home, it's been along hard week...


im at work at 5 so i wont get my friday beer till i finish at 9.30


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

claire said:


> would love a beer





dh.dti said:


> yeah a beer as soon as i get home, it's been along hard week...


LOL a beer is on the way to ya both


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> lets not argue ! i love every one  even you darren


well i neva  neva thort ild see the day .

lol @ camp.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> lets not argue ! i love every one  even you darren


lol.....................


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> Cos they are right up there with it doh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Emmmm Clueless not BrainlessDoh!!!!!. So why has the ones who have been on a Hunt posted that they have never seen the fox at the end


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

clueless said:


> Emmmm Clueless not BrainlessDoh!!!!!. So why has the ones who have been on a Hunt posted that they have never seen the fox at the end


coz its been ripped to shreds by the foxhounds be4 they got there lol.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

i could just drink a lager


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clueless said:


> Emmmm Clueless not BrainlessDoh!!!!!. So why has the ones who have been on a Hunt posted that they have never seen the fox at the end


look I aint even gonna answer you on here anymore if you want evidence I could give it to you but you wouldnt believe it then you would prob think it had been done in a steven speilberg studio somewhere


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

sorry if i've upset/bored everyone but i will always be sorry for the fox


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

claire said:


> i could just drink a lager


me aswell  yum yum, i swear were wanting to drink earlyer and earlyer


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> sorry if i've upset/bored everyone but i will always be sorry for the fox


Hehehe


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> that's a bit camp isn't it...


Hay i aint like magik ya know


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> me aswell  yum yum, i swear were wanting to drink earlyer and earlyer


its friday thems the rules


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> coz its been ripped to shreds by the foxhounds be4 they got there lol.


Well I have read the posts and some say the top dog gets there first, kills fox instantly and another stating Head Huntsman shoots it then dogs rip it to pieces so just wondered if this was witnessed


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> I never mentioned sausage jocky...


he did like a greasy sppon though


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> I never mentioned sausage jocky...


ha ha ha...................


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clueless said:


> Well I have read the posts and some say the top dog gets there first, kills fox instantly and another stating Head Huntsman shoots it then dogs rip it to pieces so just wondered if this was witnessed


believe what you want to believe see what you want to see

I believe that a chinese crested should not have to be shaved but you do and that is your business but I wont go tell you it isnt normal to use immac on them


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

i recon this thread should be renamed "the lets abuse each other thread"


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> look I aint even gonna answer you on here anymore if you want evidence I could give it to you but you wouldnt believe it then you would prob think it had been done in a steven speilberg studio somewhere


Tashi As I have already said I am a bit of a fencesitter in away re hunting. I do not disagree with hunting just the way the fox dies at end thats all. In no way are my posts directed at anyone in particular. Just curiousity as to wjhat really happens and thought evidence coming from the horses mouth so to speak would be better than links as the Pro's say the Anti's are just posting the bad linksabout it all


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

claire said:


> its friday thems the rules


Bloody good uns aswell i reck


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

garryd said:


> i recon this thread should be renamed "the lets abuse each other thread"


or the lets have a go at Tashi's childhood thread


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> believe what you want to believe see what you want to see
> 
> I believe that a chinese crested should not have to be shaved but you do and that is your business but I wont go tell you it isnt normal to use immac on them


Em a bit personal. Now I got so many warnings slapped on me for people vthinking I was being personal re a thread that now I look as if I may be Radioactive or something


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

to be honest i think this thread is getting ratha personal  

to turn this fox thread into personal things aimed at our pets is not rite.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> Isn't that cruelty...


 it must be cruel that rotten


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> Isn't that cruelty...


WHY And its Veet actually


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

i love steak and eggs i love steak and eggsi love steak and eggs i love steak and eggsi love steak and eggs i love steak and eggs


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

clueless said:


> Em a bit personal. Now I got so many warnings slapped on me for people vthinking I was being personal re a thread that now I look as if I may be Radioactive or something


agreed..........


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> Bloody good uns aswell i reck


we need more rules like them


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> i love steak and eggs i love steak and eggsi love steak and eggs i love steak and eggsi love steak and eggs i love steak and eggs


Bitta steak will do me yummehh.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> to be honest i think this thread is getting ratha personal
> 
> to turn this fox thread into personal things aimed at our pets is not rite.


Agree But then again its good fun seemingly on here to slap the Newbie


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

garryd said:


> i recon this thread should be renamed "the lets abuse each other thread"


Shut ya face ya kn** wart


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> i love steak and eggs i love steak and eggsi love steak and eggs i love steak and eggsi love steak and eggs i love steak and eggs


....................lol im cookin streak n eggs for barney in a min


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

claire said:


> we need more rules like them


ill drinks to that


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

did you lot know that a human head weighs 3 pounds


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clueless said:


> Tashi As I have already said I am a bit of a fencesitter in away re hunting. I do not disagree with hunting just the way the fox dies at end thats all. In no way are my posts directed at anyone in particular. Just curiousity as to wjhat really happens and thought evidence coming from the horses mouth so to speak would be better than links as the Pro's say the Anti's are just posting the bad linksabout it all


I have already told you where my parents were 9 out 10 were shot first then the hounds had their quarry but we had loads and loads of 'empty' days as well, also if the fox had given the hounds the slip which they did often cos they are a lot more cunning then the hounds as hounds dont use their eyes at all they scent if a fox used to cross a river they would loose the scent or they would climb a hayrick and sit on top laughing at them we would always call hounds off and he would live to 'fight' another day. More often than not the fox would be old or sick in some way really was a survival of the fittest.

I am getting a little upset that you think we bred foxes to kill, and that we lived the way of life as animal haters if anything my love for animals surpasses that of humans and my oh knows where he stands in the ladder of life if he EVER suggested getting 'rid' of any of my dogs HE would be up the road first and that is not a joke !!!


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Shut ya face ya kn** wart


lol lol thread sucessfully hijacked


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> did you lot know that a human head weighs 3 pounds


mine weighs nixy, light as a featha...its hollow ya know


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

clueless said:


> Agree But then again its good fun seemingly on here to slap the Newbie


You're hardly a newbie now - I think this is one of the friendlier forums - you want to go onto some of the unmoderated forums and see how ya fair there.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> did you lot know that a human head weighs 3 pounds


not all some are empty


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

claire said:


> lol lol thread sucessfully hijacked


awww I wasnt trying to hijack the thread - just telling Garry he's a kn** wart


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

did you know i got a 50" inch Pionneer plazma tv


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> I have already told you where my parents were 9 out 10 were shot first then the hounds had their quarry but we had loads and loads of 'empty' days as well, also if the fox had given the hounds the slip which they did often cos they are a lot more cunning then the hounds as hounds dont use their eyes at all they scent if a fox used to cross a river they would loose the scent or they would climb a hayrick and sit on top laughing at them we would always call hounds off and he would live to 'fight' another day. More often than not the fox would be old or sick in some way really was a survival of the fittest.
> 
> I am getting a little upset that you think we bred foxes to kill, and that we lived the way of life as animal haters if anything my love for animals surpasses that of humans and my oh knows where he stands in the ladder of life if he EVER suggested getting 'rid' of any of my dogs HE would be up the road first and that is not a joke !!!


Okay Now could you go back and read my posts on this subject as now once have I mentioned Foxes getting bred, not once have I taken it personally with you, and deffo not once have I stated you are an animal hater


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Jo P said:


> awww I wasnt trying to hijack the thread - just telling Garry he's a kn** wart


well tell garry being a kn*b wart aint on the subject of fox hunting lol lol


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> did you know i got a 50" inch Pionneer plazma tv


i wont one..................


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> you are a senior member now get over it


And Would you like ME to apologise Again for someone else thinking its all about them


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> did you know i got a 50" inch Pionneer plazma tv


SHOW OFF ........


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

clueless said:


> And Would you like ME to apologise Again for someone else thinking its all about them


what?????????????????????? what have ya done wrong now!!!!!


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> SHOW OFF ........


just trying to go off topic


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> just trying to go off topic


i know lol...i wanty one to 

oh well my 28 inch will ave to do me anotha couple of years lol.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

This topic is called Hunting - whats your view' - it could be hunting of any kind. Garry may have been wart hunting and I was just pointing him in the right direction'


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clueless said:


> Okay Now could you go back and read my posts on this subject as now once have I mentioned Foxes getting bred, not once have I taken it personally with you, and deffo not once have I stated you are an animal hater


Not just you but there were others on here as well if you read the posts!!

Hunting for me was a way of life as simple as eating jam and bread for tea end of story!! I was born when my parents were in hunt service so I grew up surrounded with hounds and horses and have been as truthful with you as I can be with hunting and the reasons behind it I have never had to think if it was right or wrong because it was job the same as some people work in an office or a shop as a child you take it for granted that mum or dad sell sweets and tobacco to people you dont question it.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

.....................................


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Jo P said:


> This topic is called Hunting - whats your view' - it could be hunting of any kind. Garry may have been wart hunting and I was just pointing him in the right direction'


:


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> just trying to go off topic


good idea



Jo P said:


> This topic is called Hunting - whats your view' - it could be hunting of any kind. Garry may have been wart hunting and I was just pointing him in the right direction'


ive not laugh that much in ages till i read that


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> Not just you but there were others on here as well if you read the posts!!
> 
> Hunting for me was a way of life as simple as eating jam and bread for tea end of story!! I was born when my parents were in hunt service so I grew up surrounded with hounds and horses and have been as truthful with you as I can be with hunting and the reasons behind it I have never had to think if it was right or wrong because it was job the same as some people work in an office or a shop as a child you take it for granted that mum or dad sell sweets and tobacco to people you dont question it.


Could you please rethink this post You are saying it again NOT JUST YOU It never was me!!!!!! who stated those things, but you attacked ME personally (and may I say off topic ) for asking questions re fox dying at end Thanks


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Jo P said:


> This topic is called Hunting - whats your view' - it could be hunting of any kind. Garry may have been wart hunting and I was just pointing him in the right direction'


wart??? at least you know what your on about jo


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

claire said:


> .....................................


PMFSL now that pic is damnwell cute haha....lurving the specs


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

garryd said:


> wart??? at least you know what your on about jo


PMSL


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

tashi said:


> I have already told you where my parents were 9 out 10 were shot first then the hounds had their quarry but we had loads and loads of 'empty' days as well, also if the fox had given the hounds the slip which they did often cos they are a lot more cunning then the hounds as hounds dont use their eyes at all they scent if a fox used to cross a river they would loose the scent or they would climb a hayrick and sit on top laughing at them we would always call hounds off and he would live to 'fight' another day. More often than not the fox would be old or sick in some way really was a survival of the fittest.
> 
> I am getting a little upset that you think we bred foxes to kill, and that we lived the way of life as animal haters if anything my love for animals surpasses that of humans and my oh knows where he stands in the ladder of life if he EVER suggested getting 'rid' of any of my dogs HE would be up the road first and that is not a joke !!!


it was'nt Clueless who mentioned about hunts breeding foxes it was me & it was never meant to be personal just that the evidence that it went on is out there.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clueless said:


> Could you please rethink this post You are saying it again NOT JUST YOU It never was me!!!!!! who stated those things, but you attacked ME personally (and may I say off topic ) for asking questions re fox dying at end Thanks


OK for that I am sorry but I am just getting so upset with the way people think hunt people treat their animals and I have answered your question about the fox dying I cant be anymore truthful than I have been and I will answer any questions I can about fox hunting truthfully if I am still here to answer them


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> it was'nt Clueless who mentioned about hunts breeding foxes it was me & it was never meant to be personal just that the evidence that it goes/went? on is out there.


Thank you Noushka at least someone is reading what I post


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clueless said:


> Thank you Noushka at least someone is reading what I post


and I have apologised


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> OK for that I am sorry but I am just getting so upset with the way people think hunt people treat their animals and I have answered your question about the fox dying I cant be anymore truthful than I have been and I will answer any questions I can about fox hunting truthfully if I am still here to answer them


Thank you Tashi and I hope you are still here to answer any questions not just on Fox Hunting. Debates are debates and if no one wanted them then they should not join forums. 
I like debates like everyone else but have been picked on because I am not a sheep as in I do not follow I ask questions and post IMO. But personal comments I have not done and do not like done to me during a debate on another subject


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> this my bathroom ! its where i take many cold showers


ya tiles need a scrub.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

clueless said:


> Thank you Tashi and I hope you are still here to answer any questions not just on Fox Hunting. Debates are debates and if no one wanted them then they should not join forums.
> I like debates like everyone else but have been picked on because I am not a sheep as in I do not follow I ask questions and post IMO. But personal comments I have not done and do not like done to me during a debate on another subject


The way I feel at the mo I may not be I really am upset by the thoughts that some of the people on here think about us and I promised myself that I wasnt going to get dragged into this debate again but it is hard when you see so much posted which gets generalised and we all get tarred with the same brush I am going to leave this now dry my eyes and try to stay away from this thread if any of you want any truthful answers to how I lived my life with the hunt then pm me and I promise I wont hide anything I cant be fairer than that


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

me knees have gone week thinking of you in the buff in that shower Garry - need a cold flannel on me forehead


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> ya tiles need a scrub.


where ever to


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

garryd said:


> this my bathroom ! its where i take many cold showers


Aha Now that shower head looks as if it would get to hard to reach areas, you know like ankles


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Jo P said:


> me knees have gone week thinking of you in the buff in that shower Garry - need a cold flannel on me forehead


haha jo 

im scared.


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

clueless said:


> Aha Now that shower head looks as if it would get to hard to reach areas, you know like ankles


lol its a tad high aye


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

I thought chinese hairless were born like that!didnt know they were shaved!or are they crested?or is that the same?


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

Jo P said:


> me knees have gone week thinking of you in the buff in that shower Garry - need a cold flannel on me forehead


lol......................


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

did you know i love shaved things
And no not bald heads darren


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)




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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> did you know i love shaved things
> And no not bald heads darren


oh my word!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

garryd said:


> did you know i love shaved things
> And no not bald heads darren


thats deffo a man thing


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

tashi said:


> The way I feel at the mo I may not be I really am upset by the thoughts that some of the people on here think about us and I promised myself that I wasnt going to get dragged into this debate again but it is hard when you see so much posted which gets generalised and we all get tarred with the same brush I am going to leave this now dry my eyes and try to stay away from this thread if any of you want any truthful answers to how I lived my life with the hunt then pm me and I promise I wont hide anything I cant be fairer than that


Well for what it is worth IMO I did not think OMG this is about Tashi, it is difficult to stand back from a thread that has some part of your life and ways in it and not think ITs about Me. I dare say I could read some past posts about things I have done or am doing and think that but my feelings are if I am doing something and feel justified for doing it then its fluck all to do with anyone else. Opinions are only opinions at the end of the day


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> I thought chinese hairless were born like that!didnt know they were shaved!or are they crested?or is that the same?


They carry a hairless Gene so are born with all different amounts of hair, True Hairless, Moderate Hairless and Hairy Hairless. Much the same way as Humans can carry Gene for eye colour, all different shades of Blue etc, not just the one shade


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## foxylady (Jan 16, 2008)

garryd said:


> i allso have a 26" jvc HD tv in my bedroom


All we need now gary is your kitchen then we have seen something out all your rooms


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

i swear to god....if i ever pass gloustishre...im specificly dropping in to head butt u garry....


then run 

lol foxy... we aint seen the bog yert


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

foxylady said:


> All we need now gary is your kitchen then we have seen something out all your rooms


coming up next


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

garryd said:


> i allso have a 26" jvc HD tv in my bedroom


You Lucky Boy


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

clueless said:


> You Lucky Boy


yeah i guess i am 
Do you wanna see a picture of my new timberlands????


----------



## clueless (May 26, 2008)

garryd said:


> yeah i guess i am
> Do you wanna see a picture of my new timberlands????


Go for it


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## foxylady (Jan 16, 2008)

garryd said:


> yeah i guess i am
> Do you wanna see a picture of my new timberlands????


You should start a thread 'All about me'  and show all your pic's


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

foxylady said:


> You should start a thread 'All about me'  and show all your pic's


just trying to change the subject 

wanna see whats on my shopping list this month???


----------

