# Hi Im looking at buying a dobermann - does anyone have any experience?



## nadinem (Jun 23, 2008)

Hi Im new to this!
But looking for some advice, Ive been looking for a dobe puppy with a docked tail and only found 1 breeder in the entire uk. I was wondering if anyone has heard of this particular breeder and if he is legit? Will supply all info if anyone out there has any experience or knows anything?
Any advice would be appreciated!


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

This is just IMO but anyone who has pup's with docked tails are dodgy purely because it is now illegal to dock tails rightly or wrongly. Why dont you get one with a full tail hun? x


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

you can no longer dock in the uk and so this pup is obviously not legit the only way to get a docked puppy now is to bring one in from Ireland


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

nadinem said:


> Hi Im new to this!
> But looking for some advice, Ive been looking for a dobe puppy with a docked tail and only found 1 breeder in the entire uk. I was wondering if anyone has heard of this particular breeder and if he is legit? Will supply all info if anyone out there has any experience or knows anything?
> Any advice would be appreciated!


why does your new pup have to have a docked tail? It's cruel, hence it being against the law in this country!


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

please be carefull because docking is banned in the uk.


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## nadinem (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks for replies, I realise most people wont agree with it now, its just Im so used to seeing them like that. But if I cant get one done legally or humanely I will have to re think it. He says its done by a vet out of this country.
N


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

nadinem said:


> Thanks for replies, I realise most people wont agree with it now, its just Im so used to seeing them like that. But if I cant get one done legally or humanely I will have to re think it. He says its done by a vet out of this country.
> N


there was a woman took her pups to ireland and had them done and she was prosecuted will see if I can find the link


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

here it is

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/7870-dog-owner-fined-tail-docking.html


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

Buyers can also be prosicuted for buying a pup with a docked tail.

Defra, UK - Animal Health and Welfare - Animal Welfare - Draft Animal Welfare Bill - Circus Welfare Working Group


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

I've owned Dobermans, please also make sure parents of puppies are free from Genetic Diseases and Defects, they can be prone to life threatening conditions.

Dobermann Dogs - Health Issues Affecting Doberman Breed | Dobermann Welfare Association

Wobblers Disease | Wobblers Syndrome | Spondylomyelopathy


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## nadinem (Jun 23, 2008)

Final end to this debate!
I called the Royal College of Vetinary Surgeons and asked the question if I bought a puppy with a docked tail that had been done out of UK could I be fined or prosecuted and was told definitely not. Its legal to own or buy a puppy like this.
Thanks for all help, links and advice, to a touchy question I know. And not everyone will agree. But I thank you all anyway.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

Can I ask WHY the dog has to be docked? 

One of our Dobes had her tail intact, this was way before docking became illegal & I thought she looked nice  

Have you considered dogs that don't need to be docked? Bulldogs are born with naturally short tails - have you considered these?

If health is put before buying a dog for cosmetic reasons, then perhaps its the wrong breed for you. I would be more concerned about the health of a dog rather than it having or not having its tail.


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

nadinem said:


> Thanks for replies, I realise most people wont agree with it now, its just Im so used to seeing them like that. But if I cant get one done legally or humanely I will have to re think it. He says its done by a vet out of this country.
> N


Hi 
If you really would love a Dobermann with a docked tail, why not consider rescuing an adult? They do make fab pets, I've never owned one, but a friend of mine has and he was the sweetest dog. Here's a link to a rescue:

Dobermann Rescue Ltd

And here's several dogs looking for homes! Several have already been docked, so you wouldn't be breaking the law!

Dobermann Rescue Dobes in Rescue

Good luck!


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

happysaz133 said:


> Hi
> If you really would love a Dobermann with a docked tail, why not consider rescuing an adult? They do make fab pets, I've never owned one, but a friend of mine has and he was the sweetest dog. Here's a link to a rescue:
> 
> Dobermann Rescue Ltd
> ...


Good idea  i would deffo go for that.
ahhhh tho, all them dogs lil faces on the site, bless them all.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

happysaz133 said:


> Hi
> If you really would love a Dobermann with a docked tail, why not consider rescuing an adult? They do make fab pets, I've never owned one, but a friend of mine has and he was the sweetest dog. Here's a link to a rescue:
> 
> Dobermann Rescue Ltd
> ...


Great Idea There are some lovely looking dogs on there


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## nadinem (Jun 23, 2008)

Ok yes good idea, will take a look and give them a call.
Thanks


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## Ladywiccana (Feb 24, 2008)

* Thought I would let you all see my old boy Khan He was a wonderful dog! And i will have another one, one day! Pictue about 26yrs old! That made me feel rite old lol.*


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

ladywiccana said:


> * Thought I would let you all see my old boy Khan He was a wonderful dog! And i will have another one, one day! Pictue about 26yrs old! That made me feel rite old lol.*


Oh He is lovely


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## Blaxen (May 4, 2008)

He looks lovely!! even if the picture is old. I have 2 dobes at the moment and they are absolutely gorgeous (I know I am biased) and they are complete fruit cakes.. What is it they say, they take after their owner


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## 1971 (Aug 16, 2008)

Hi - my first post, I am also in the process of getting a doberman puppy.
We think we have found the one we want, hopefully going to see it next weekend.

No one really answered the OP's original question....and I love to know your experiences.

I think our pup will be about 10weeks when we get it.
It will be our first pup.
Read a few nightmare stories about being very vocal as pups.
Any advice/tips etc would be appreciated. thanks


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## Ladywiccana (Feb 24, 2008)

*My boy was from the Iceberg of tavey blood lines, dont know if they still going but it was a good stock!*


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## missfilly (Mar 23, 2008)

hi my dobe puppy is 6 months old and has been the best to train he has his dew claws and full tail and yeah he's a nutter but the most loving dog i ever met especially with my 3 year old son. and im sure every doberman owner will agree they are the most amazing loyal dogs to own. that and im biased to the breed!


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## montymonster (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi All,

I have an 8 month old Dobe puppy. He is a full European blood line dog. He has been an amazing puppy, so quick to learn and the best in his class at puppy school by a mile!
I haven't had any problems with him being vocal.
Just make sure you are in charge from day one, and I would always reccommend crate training.

Great choice of breed!


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## casino87 (Jan 31, 2010)

i like the way people are giving the OP false facts about weather docking is illegal or not

i personally like dobermans with floppy ears and long tails, a good breed still looks chunky and mean

no it is NOT illegal to own a docked OR cropped doberman, as long as the puppy is NOT born in the UK and in a country where it is legal to dock the tails you can legally buy and own it, you will get evidence of the legality of the docking from the vet who performs it.

heck you can buy a cropped doberman if it is done in a legal country, as long as the puppy is NOT born in the UK all is good

like for example you cannot get a puppy here and go abroad to have these things done...apart from that the tail is docked at a few days old. your not likely to have the puppy untill 6-8 weeks so would be far too late

the only reason i would not buy a docked dog anyway is because of the health implications this can have on the dogs ballence, the tail is a big part of this + if it was justified to save a working dog pain in the long run then why arent sheep dogs docked (boarder collies) ? etc.. these dogs work in rough terrains with very large animals, yet no docked tails lol

if you want a docked dobie then there are many breeders in the UK who have kennels in Ireland and ship the pups over once the operation is done, enabling you to go buy/collect them in this country so YES the person you have heard of could well be legit....however if they get them docked here stay well clear, if questioned (which it is unlikely) you may need to provide evidence where the docking was performed :smile5:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Ireland is full of people breeding docked breeds from non health tested poor quality dogs to take advantage of our docking laws. Anybody thinking of going down this route needs to be very carefull in there research.


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## Danielle P (Jan 18, 2010)

A lot of kennels/breeders over here bring in pups from Ireland to sell on. But most of the breeders in Ireland are puppy farmers and they are kept in dreadful conditions due to slack laws over there. Which means the pup would not have been bred properly and probably not had any jabs etc. 

Also, if it has come from a puppy farm, they are usually brought up with just dogs and have not had much/any socialisation with people/children which can result in behavioural problems from anxiety to aggression (not something you want in a Doberman)

Please find a reptuable breeder in the UK that does things correctly and gives you and your new pup the best chance of a healthy happy life together. 

Good luck.


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

casino87 said:


> i like the way people are giving the OP false facts about weather docking is illegal or not
> 
> i personally like dobermans with floppy ears and long tails, a good breed still looks chunky and mean
> 
> ...


Ballence? You must mean Balance! They have no issues with balance, some of the best agility dogs I've ever met have been Dobermanns with docked tails! This coming from someone who has worked with LOADS of Dobermanns from 3 weeks of age to well past 10 years of age in the USA and the UK for over 3 years.

The original reasons for the Dobermann being cropped and docked were half work related, half cosmetic. The standing (cropped) ear was said to be capable of better hearing than that of floppy eared dogs, and the docked tail was in place mainly for two reasons. 1) So villains (enemies, whatever..) had less to grab hold of and 2) Dobermanns have fragile-ish tails, when left undocked, they are prone to damage. Getting caught in doors, trodden on etc.

If you want a Dobermann puppy with cropped ears in the UK, I would highly recommend completely forgetting about it  Cropped ears must be diligently cared for until well after the teething process is complete (some ears I have dealt with required posting as long as 16 months of age!). Cropping in itself should be done between 7-10 weeks of age. In order to import a dog (say, a puppy you got cropped..in a country where it is legal to crop and with vets licensed to crop..) into the UK, there is a 6 month quarantine involved. The dog must pass a rabies blood test, and there are MANY issues involved with giving young puppies the rabies vaccination anyways.

From someone who has only ever owned floppy eared dobermanns, I would highly recommend avoiding any breeder who charges more for the docked look. Especially in this breed which is known for Heart Disease, Liver Disease, Cervical Vertebral Instability, vWD, Hip Dysplasia, PHPv, PRA etc...I've only found *1* dobermann breeder in the UK who health tests to a satisfactory level with whom I would be comfortable about getting a puppy from.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

assuming OP has found a pup as this thread is 19mths old


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

dexter said:


> assuming OP has found a pup as this thread is 19mths old


aha; but see, if someone new does a forum search for dobermanns, at least my good points and advice will be here!  lol


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

casandra said:


> aha; but see, if someone new does a forum search for dobermanns, at least my good points and advice will be here!  lol


Yes its sometimes good that these old threads are reopened for that reason i do know dobes can suffer d.c.m i found this out when i was researching the disease when my springer had it so important that this test is done.


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## ridergirl (Mar 25, 2010)

i know the woman who you may be talking about, she usually attends Birmingham Dobermann club with a very expensive merc sprinter van and selection of docked dobies there!! However, all her dogs are solid beautiful dogs and have had many championship wins.....

personally I prefer them with the tail in tact, and if you intend to show your Dobe, KC rules do not permit illegally docked dogs to be entered into competition where the public pay a fee to attend.

some of the judges (old school type) have their preferences and sometimes will place docked dobies over undocked ones (and vice versa!), just depends on who the judge is.

I have a 2 and half yo choc Dobie (Dcourts Prometheus Janus) 'Dante' who I got from a friend who breeds in Stoke. he is an accreditted breeder with excellent 5 gen pedigree and 27 champions/european bloodlines....sire is CH Gaindyke Yuma Von Mansty - Dam Dobermation Hathor. 3 of my dog's litter mates (including my special boy!) have been successful in the show ring all with their tails intact!!- mine qualified for crufts 2009 first time out, despite my being a novice handler!! 

however due to work and time commitments - and struggling to trek to birmingham from manchester every wed eve for obedience and ringcraft classes, I havent shown him since the latter end of 2008...I have been trying to find a dobie club closer to home to get him back in the swing, (and I feel i owe it to him to bring out the best characteristics of his breed standard in him), but am yet to find one suitable....if anyone knows of somewhere closer 'Oop North - let me know!) 


while you may want a dobie, if u are more bothered about having a docked dog merely for looks, and status, then go get yourself a staffie....the dobie has to want you too, and they are 'high maintenance'!! and they can take over your life (in a good way!) and end up becoming very collectable! lol!! they are soo loyal, loving, funny and intelligent (as well as being being a royal pain in the a$$ at times, especially when you want privacy in the loo/bedroom!! lol)....I'm now looking at having another one!!...

so good luck in your search, but please think very carefully before getting one and whether you are able to give ur dobie the attention it needs (and demands!) and learn as much as you can about them! ...(i'm still learning!) :thumbup:


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

ridergirl said:


> so good luck in your search, but please think very carefully before getting one and whether you are able to give ur dobie the *attention it needs* (and demands!) and learn as much as you can about them! ...(i'm still learning!) :thumbup:


If you're only just learning, then you shouldn't be studding out your dog. You say can't afford/are not well enough to frequent shows and put a title on your dog, yet you are more than happy to stud him out without full health testing?

I have found a review (judge's comments) on your dog online and the only faults were with the handler, so I think the dog would have done well if you'd continued and done the appropriate training!

Regarding the part of your comment I bolded above:

There are highly suspected DCM passers in your dog's pedigree, please have him checked annually for DCM via an echo (doppler ultrasound) and holter. (I know of at least 6 dogs with certain ancestors in common with your dog's pedigree who have passed or are currently suffering from DCM).

Vetmedin: Fun Stuff

Dobermann Breed Council Dilated Cardiomyopathy

DCM is something you do NOT want to pass on to innocent puppies. Please think twice about studding your dog without the appropriate health tests. 50% or more of all Dobermann puppies will eventually go on to get this disease. 1 out of every 2 puppies born. Please do not contribute to that statistic.

Good luck!


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## ridergirl (Mar 25, 2010)

appreciate your advice Casandra, but FYI I was merely pointing out from my own experience, the steep learning curve I went through to make sure I knew as much as possible about owning a Dobie. 

I am the first to admit i knew nothing about the ettiquette in ringcraft or what it involved fully when I first got my boy, and the thought of him being a potential show dog had never entered my head until the owner of his dad suggested he had great potential when she assessed himand his litter mates at 6wks old.

with this in mind I was willing to learn and do whatever necessary to increase my knowledge and understanding of the breed.... i made sure he was well socialised from an early age, attended puppy training classes, was adequately stimulated and well excercised etc.. and because there were no Dobie clubs near where I live I used to travel to birmingham (whic was a 3 hour round trip!) every wednesday to learn ringcraft....

the day before his 1st show in blackpool i was involved in a serious car accident on the way to Royal Ascot Ladies Day..( where i have since learned that i had sustained 3 ruptured discs in my neck) despite this i still went ahead with the show....he then competed in a couple more shows in the Aug/Sept '08, and during one of the open classes he had been entered in, he was attacked in the ring by a Boxer dog which left both myself and my boy visibly shaken and I pulled him out of the show.

from then on, whenever he went into the ring, you could see he was not enjoying himself/unhappy/lost his confidence (as had I), and I felt he needed time out to recover and re-build his confidence once again, before considering putting him back in the show arena again.

Y0u mention the fact i could not afford to carry on showing him/not well enought to frequent shows and to put a title on him yet happy to stud him without the necessaary health checks....

No, I am not happpy to stud him without first completing all the necessary health checks and have no intention of contributing to any such statistics. I want to be certain any of his future progeny are healthy, and free from disease. 

And while he is currently advertised on studyourdog.com, I am gaging interest / testing the water/planning ahead so to speak. Although not in the sense that I am prepared to compromise the future health of any pups he sires, by studding him out before I have received all of his test results back...(which are expected back in the next 4wk, so I have been told). I want to do this in the right way and in the prescribed manner as a responsible dog owner and lover of the dobermann breed.....

I would love nothing more but to resume his ringcraft classes and to achieve his full potential and hopefully become champion, but it is not as important as having a healthy, happy dog. first and foremost he is a much loved family pet. I have now found a mixed breed dog club close to where I work which does ringcraft and other training classes, and he will be starting back next tuesday!
last year it was discoverd I had a broken left wrist which had been undiagnosed from the time of my accident, and so required specialist hand surgery to pin it, and 3 months in cast, not able to drive or write, or go to work during that time (I run a busy child protection duty team, and also qualified sign language translator and independent court consultant) - so Money was definately NOT an issue,!!

having recently returned to work 4 days a week, I have now found out I have a degenerative bone condition making me more susceptable to broken bones, and now my right wrist is also broken and once again in cast for 3 months! (Just call me 'Lucky'!)....

..combine this with only having 15% use of my left hand,the physical logistics and limited function of both wrists, coupled with having developed a phobia of driving n using public transport, it is not hard to see how it has hindered things!!! 

Yet despite the above, I am more detrmined now to return to competition with my boy, if only to prove the 'doubting thomas's' wrong, and try to break down the apparent cliques and 'snobbery' that goes on between some KC owners/breeders/judges when it comes to sharing their knowledge and expertise!!...and to prove you really can teach an old dog (me) new tricks!!

so instead of being precious with your obviously far greater superior knowledge base, and making wild assumptions about the type of person you think I am, in being critical , why not share that expertise in a more positive and constructive way by setting a good example and helping those less expereinced (like myself)....remembering that we all have to start from somewhere!!...and everyone gets things wrong at some point, ...but it is an integral part of learning process..

I trust this now clarifies things? (my rant is finally over!!)
:thumbup:


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

I was actually complimenting your boy, nothing negative involved, except that you really need to research those pedigrees a bit more because of the high risk of Dilated Cardiomyopathy.

I applaud you for continuing on and for doing the health testing that you have done. Have you had a 24-hour Holter done on him or a doppler ultrasound yet? These in my eyes are the most important tests that need doing before you decide to breed with your dog.

I should also mention that 6 weeks is far too young to be able to discern *true* potential in any given field, especially showing, as puppies grow and change a lot more up to the 8 and 12 weeks of age markers. At 6 weeks, they are only just beginning to develop their own personalities.

Again, good on you for continuing on with him in ringcraft, I too am disabled, but I never let that stop me from pursuing my dreams and goals!


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## ridergirl (Mar 25, 2010)

casandra said:


> I was actually complimenting your boy, nothing negative involved, except that you really need to research those pedigrees a bit more because of the high risk of Dilated Cardiomyopathy.
> 
> I applaud you for continuing on and for doing the health testing that you have done. Have you had a 24-hour Holter done on him or a doppler ultrasound yet? These in my eyes are the most important tests that need doing before you decide to breed with your dog.
> 
> ...


 - Oops - Sorry, I guess I was just having one of those days yesterday and feeling a little hypersensitive!!  - i have pm'd you, but do want to know how i go about researching his pedigree further for the affected dogs with DCM (or do you know which they are?



yup u are quite right, i had forgot to mention that DR (the owner/breeder of Dante's Dad (is also a judge for the breed too) did in fact see pups at 8wks and again shortly after before they wre ready to be re-homed - when a friend of hers bought 'Otto' Dcourts Ouranos, and they wanted her opinion on which pup to choose... she was also present at the birth

...unfortunately I have lost contact with her, and wanted her to cast her eye over dante now he is much older....and recently heard 'rumour' that 'Alfie' has died? but not been able to confirm this, and in view of your comment about his pedigree whether he in fact had dcm also??:

how do i find this out? contact the KC?

thanks!


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