# Looking for Bullmastiff Stud, East Sussex/Kent



## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Hi all i am new to this site and also the world of breeding (have researched plenty before deciding). I have an absolutly stunning Bullmastiff Bitch called Hoochie who is an absolute credit to the breed AND she has the best temperment ive ever seen! i am looking for a beautiful stud, fawn with black muzzle. He MUST have an excellent temperment, be up to date on all jabs (evidence required). we are in Hastings, East Sussex but are willing to travel around East sussex or kent. We look forward to finding the perfect stud for her, if not then she will not be bred which will be a shame. also this will be her first and last litter, thanks for reading, Sophie x


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

you dont mention health tests? do you show Sophie?

Just to add my friend bred her bullmastiff,ive written about it on her a few times before, Maisie suffered whelping complications and died under the aneasthetic having an emergency ceasarian, she was only 3 yrs old....my friend was devestated and wracked with guilt, it was about 8 yrs ago and its still its her biggest regret that she ever bred her beloved dog. She was also left with 10 puppies to hand rear, only 4 survived.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

if you've done relevant health tests , then pm me.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

im sorry to hear about your friends bullmastiff, but believe me i have done lots of researching, and i have money in the bank ready should any complications arise (touch wood they dont). and of course its important to me the stud is healthy etc x


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

dexter said:


> if you've done relevant health tests , then pm me.


hi dexter it isnt allowing me to pm you as new to the site and need a minimum of 25posts please could you email me, [email protected] thankyou


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> im sorry to hear about your friends bullmastiff, but believe me i have done lots of researching, and i have money in the bank ready should any complications arise (touch wood they dont). and of course its important to me the stud is healthy etc x


what health tests have you done though?

my friend had the money plus hands on knowledge but still lost her bitch, its a risk all breeders take when they breed, and those with the least knowledge or without a mentor put their bitches at even greater risk.

how old is hoochie?


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

she had has an mot at the vets, her hips are fine (seen by expert) but booking her in for hip scoring as need to know for sure. i have been researching for over a year, spoken to breeders, watched endless videos, ive been at the actual birth of kittens but never a dog. and hoochie is 2years old, this will be her first and last as will be getting her 'done'. i just thought she is such a beautiful and loving dog her genes shouldnt be 'wasted'. ive studied everything...even what to do with the pups..they wont be going to just any home, they will be vet checked and new owners told to bring them back should they not cope..and if i get left with them all then im able to accomodate them


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Ive just had a look at Hoochie in your downloads and not being awful because she is gorgeous, but she dosent look like a pure bred Bullmastiff to me? and if she is im sorry to say shes not a good example of the breed also i see shes docked? Bullmastiffs were never docked even when it was legal....the ban came in in march 2007 so this would make hoochie almost 5? another risk.

one more thing, she looks quite a small bitch so if you put her to a pure well bred bullmastiff stud then you are increasing her chances even more of suffering whelping complications, as the puppies are likely to be too large for her to whelp.

if you love her then please dont risk her life.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

when are you planning on getting health tests done ? no you'll have to make a few more posts before you can pm me lol. do you show your bitch?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> she had has an mot at the vets, her hips are fine (seen by expert) but booking her in for hip scoring as need to know for sure. i have been researching for over a year, spoken to breeders, watched endless videos, ive been at the actual birth of kittens but never a dog. and hoochie is 2years old, this will be her first and last as will be getting her 'done'. i just thought she is such a beautiful and loving dog her genes shouldnt be 'wasted'. ive studied everything...even what to do with the pups..they wont be going to just any home, they will be vet checked and new owners told to bring them back should they not cope..and if i get left with them all then im able to accomodate them


is she kc registered?


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

She is definatly not docked, its the way she was sitting, i also stated in the title that she is definatly not docked! that photo is from when she was 8months old, was a professional shot (apart from making her look docked) ill upload another pic with a huge wagging tail that really hurts when it smacks across my face lol she was also rescued by me at 7months old, and ive fed her up lovely now (not overweight dont wring my neck! lol) she is a pure breed, not papered. and shes grown ALOT since those photos, head broadened etc..she surprised me at how big she got...im currently in bed with severe concussion because we had a head on head sandboarding LOL she knocked me the f**k out!


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

dexter said:


> when are you planning on getting health tests done ? no you'll have to make a few more posts before you can pm me lol. do you show your bitch?


shes being booked in tomorrow morning for her hip xray, i believe thats all the bullmastiffs need? if not please let me know as will do them also. she hasnt been to crufts, only been shown at family fun day type dog shows, alought the judges were proffessional i suppose that doesnt count?? lol x


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I haven't even looked at the photographs, and couldn't tell you whether she's a good example or not, as I don't know the first thing about bull mastiffs. But would be interested to know if she's KC registered or not, there are far too many people who say they've researched, and are breeding pups, when they really shouldn't be. That's not a criticism of you or your dog, but asking on an open forum for a stud dog isn't the best thing to do, and shows a lack of research to be honest. I've spent the last five years researching and health testing my bitch and may go ahead with one litter in the spring from her, and I have found a dog with a pedigree that compliments hers, and has all the other attributes I want to put into a litter from her. If you are asking on an open forum for recommendations, you're unlikely to find a dog that will compliment your bitch, and if she's not KC registered, nor a good example of the breed, you're unlikely to find any owner of a quality stud dog willing to let you use them, so will be faced with the decision to use a dog of poor quality, and I'd strongly advise against that. 

You also haven't mentioned your reason(s) for breeding, apologies for the Spanish inquisition, but this forum is very pro ethical breeding, we are all too aware on here of the amount of pups churned out, ending up in rescue, with many being put to sleep. No-one likes to think of that happening to any pup, but those dogs have been bred by someone, somewhere, who hasn't fulfilled their ethical obligations to ensure pups they breed don't end up going down that route.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> She is definatly not docked, its the way she was sitting, i also stated in the title that she is definatly not docked! that photo is from when she was 8months old, was a professional shot (apart from making her look docked) ill upload another pic with a huge wagging tail that really hurts when it smacks across my face lol she was also rescued by me at 7months old, and ive fed her up lovely now (not overweight dont wring my neck! lol) she is a pure breed, not papered. and shes grown ALOT since those photos, head broadened etc..she surprised me at how big she got...im currently in bed with severe concussion because we had a head on head sandboarding LOL she knocked me the f**k out!


oh sorry about that then, that photo _really_ looks like shes docked tho dosent it

well you need to get her hips scored before you think any further, but also you should have different people with knowledge of the breed go over her, the best way to do this in in the show ring.

what is her breeders affix? my friend who has the breed may know her lines and be able to offer advice.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I haven't even looked at the photographs, and couldn't tell you whether she's a good example or not, as I don't know the first thing about bull mastiffs. But would be interested to know if she's KC registered or not, there are far too many people who say they've researched, and are breeding pups, when they really shouldn't be. That's not a criticism of you or your dog, but asking on an open forum for a stud dog isn't the best thing to do, and shows a lack of research to be honest. I've spent the last five years researching and health testing my bitch and may go ahead with one litter in the spring from her, and I have found a dog with a pedigree that compliments hers, and has all the other attributes I want to put into a litter from her. If you are asking on an open forum for recommendations, you're unlikely to find a dog that will compliment your bitch, and if she's not KC registered, nor a good example of the breed, you're unlikely to find any owner of a quality stud dog willing to let you use them, so will be faced with the decision to use a dog of poor quality, and I'd strongly advise against that.
> 
> You also haven't mentioned your reason(s) for breeding, apologies for the Spanish inquisition, but this forum is very pro ethical breeding, we are all too aware on here of the amount of pups churned out, ending up in rescue, with many being put to sleep. No-one likes to think of that happening to any pup, but those dogs have been bred by someone, somewhere, who hasn't fulfilled their ethical obligations to ensure pups they breed don't end up going down that route.


i researched over the last year as didnt want to breed her there and then so young. im not asking for recommendations im 'shopping' like everyone else has to..im not going to breed her with the first bullmastiff i see! and my reasons for breeding are to carry her genes on, she is absolutly stunning, perfect temperment, ive never had such an amazing dog, thats why i want to breed her. we always are complimented on how big and beautiful she is. and as mentioned before im ready to keep every single pup she has..i would never want a pup going to the kennels, i took her from that, but im a sensible dog owner so lets not them the idiots ruin it for others! my new owners will be made very aware that the pups are always welcome home, even if they want a full refund 2 years late, ill happily do that, because i can!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> shes being booked in tomorrow morning for her hip xray, i believe thats all the bullmastiffs need? if not please let me know as will do them also. she hasnt been to crufts, only been shown at family fun day type dog shows, alought the judges were proffessional i suppose that doesnt count?? lol x


yes thats all the tests they need, hip dysplacia is a terrible debilitating condition......and no that type of show really dosent count, she needs to be seen by specialists in the breed.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> oh sorry about that then, that photo _really_ looks like shes docked tho dosent it
> 
> well you need to get her hips scored before you think any further, but also you should have different people with knowledge of the breed go over her, the best way to do this in in the show ring.
> 
> what is her breeders affix? my friend who has the breed may know her lines and be able to offer advice.


yes was the way she was sitting (too eager for the treat lol) have added another photo with her tail (intact) just incase others didnt see the title, and would love to contact your friend for advice (can never have enough knowledge!)

and am unsure is she has or hasn't got an affix as she was a rescue, so do not know unfortunatly, but would love to know is there a way i can find out possibly? somehow?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> i researched over the last year as didnt want to breed her there and then so young. im not asking for recommendations im 'shopping' like everyone else has to..im not going to breed her with the first bullmastiff i see! and my reasons for breeding are to carry her genes on, she is absolutly stunning, perfect temperment, ive never had such an amazing dog, thats why i want to breed her. we always are complimented on how big and beautiful she is. and as mentioned before im ready to keep every single pup she has..i would never want a pup going to the kennels, i took her from that, but im a sensible dog owner so lets not them the idiots ruin it for others! my new owners will be made very aware that the pups are always welcome home, even if they want a full refund 2 years late, ill happily do that, because i can!


Yes but is she KC registered?

We all have amazing dogs, if we all bred from them, the rescue situation would be even worse than it is now. I've got one bitch I spayed for various reasons, even when I had a good sized waiting list for pups, and having spent about £200 health testing her. Although she is a lovely dog, has a cracking character and is well trained, I still maintain I made the right decision, although not easy, in her case.

*If* I go ahead with taking a litter from my other bitch, it will be a few hundred mile round trip, possibly twice, the last thing I asked the stud dog owner was where they were in the country, and I still haven't asked how much they charge. Distance and cost are not considerations for the right dog.

I apologise if anything I say sounds harsh, it's honestly not meant to be, but you will receive honest advice about your plans, good and bad


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> yes thats all the tests they need, hip dysplacia is a terrible debilitating condition......and no that type of show really dosent count, she needs to be seen by specialists in the breed.


she has been seen by a bullmastiff breeder when i first got her, was told she looked pedigree and told her hips felt fine, just had to feed her up a bit which we did x


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> i researched over the last year as didnt want to breed her there and then so young. im not asking for recommendations im 'shopping' like everyone else has to..im not going to breed her with the first bullmastiff i see! and my reasons for breeding are to carry her genes on, she is absolutly stunning, perfect temperment, ive never had such an amazing dog, thats why i want to breed her. we always are complimented on how big and beautiful she is. and as mentioned before im ready to keep every single pup she has..i would never want a pup going to the kennels, i took her from that, but im a sensible dog owner so lets not them the idiots ruin it for others! my new owners will be made very aware that the pups are always welcome home, even if they want a full refund 2 years late, ill happily do that, because i can!


all the bullmastiffs i know have fantastic temperaments but not all are good enough to breed from...and thats why people show, so they get unbias opinions, and find out the strengths and weaknesses of their dogs, you need to know and understand about conformation, or you cant begin to find the right stud to put to put to your bitch.

you say she was bred in kennels, so wasnt she bred by a reputable breeder?

i asked earlier but is she kc registered?


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Yes but is she KC registered?
> 
> We all have amazing dogs, if we all bred from them, the rescue situation would be even worse than it is now. I've got one bitch I spayed for various reasons, even when I had a good sized waiting list for pups, and having spent about £200 health testing her. Although she is a lovely dog, has a cracking character and is well trained, I still maintain I made the right decision, although not easy, in her case.
> 
> ...


yes we do all have amzing dogs but this is the first dog ive ever actually thought i should breed her. shes is too amazing to put into words, shes just PERFECT in every way! lol and it takes a LOT to offend me, your no-where near lol i accept all advice good and bad, its a good thing..and same with kc registered, i have no idea about her background, can only go on her and her scores, no history, ive contacted previous owners vets but they will not give me any information about previous owners or breeder! its frustrating but theres nothing more i can do


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> she has been seen by a bullmastiff breeder when i first got her, was told she looked pedigree and told her hips felt fine, just had to feed her up a bit which we did x


ahh shes not kc registered then? that breeder isnt an ethical one Sophie...in all honesty she dosent look like a pure bred bullmastiff im sorry to say, and there are thousands of mastiff crosses being churned out, please think again about breeding her.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> she has been seen by a bullmastiff breeder when i first got her, was told she looked pedigree and told her hips felt fine, just had to feed her up a bit which we did x


The problem is, and the reason people keep asking you whether she's KC registered or not, is that without information about her pedigree, you know nothing about her past, so would be breeding blind as it were. If she's not KC registered you are also unlikely to find a good stud dog to use with her. I can look at the pedigrees of my dogs, and know all the health test results, and (thanks to people within my breed who keep large databases of information about the dogs - Swarthy in particular) can see whether there is anything particularly worrying about breeding, or using a dog that *seems* to have a few problems associated with that type of breeding. I can also look at the COI (co-efficient of inbreeding) which tells me how closely related the dogs within the gene pool are, and what effect this has on possible litters. So without that KC registration you are missing a world of knowledge really


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> all the bullmastiffs i know have fantastic temperaments but not all are good enough to breed from...and thats why people show, so they get unbias opinions, and find out the strengths and weaknesses of their dogs, you need to know and understand about conformation, or you cant begin to find the right stud to put to put to your bitch.
> 
> you say she was bred in kennels, so wasnt she bred by a reputable breeder?
> 
> i asked earlier but is she kc registered?


no as said have no background information for her (meaning not sure on being kc registered - so well say no to be safe) she wasnt bred in kennels she was taken to the kennels at 7months old, then rescued by me


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm just about to go and sit outside with the girls (doing my michelin man impersonation as it's cold out there so need to wrap up) but honestly, please take a big step back and look at all of the facts. Breeding is very risky, as you've already been told, you will struggle to find any mentors who will help you progress through this, as no-one wants to see yet more non-KC registered pups, particularly of this breeding (as Noushka has already pointed out, they are being churned out by the bucket load, unregistered, and some given daft chavvy names to market them) brought into the world. You will struggle to find a good dog to use, I suspect strongly you won't find a good dog to use in all honesty. 

It's a thought that many people have, they have a lovely bitch, dog of a life time, and want to breed for that reason alone, and in all honesty, it's not a good enough reason. Not taking into consideration all the other risks and problems associated with breeding  

I would (if you love this breed) look at researching a lot more, go along to a few shows and meet up with owners of mastiffs and pick their brains, and possibly in a couple of years time, look at finding a good litter to buy in a pup, get involved with showing, and possibly look at breeding in the future, depending on how things pan out, and chalk this one down to experience.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> no as said have no background information for her (meaning not sure on being kc registered - so well say no to be safe) she wasnt bred in kennels she was taken to the kennels at 7months old, then rescued by me


If she is a Rescue dog you would have signed a contract agreeing not to breed from her so I assume it was a Pound? 
In any event - this breed is, as I`m sure you realise, being used to breed status dogs now (crossed with pit types) so think for a moment about what will happen to these puppies?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> no as said have no background information for her (meaning not sure on being kc registered - so well say no to be safe) she wasnt bred in kennels she was taken to the kennels at 7months old, then rescued by me


oh lord Sophie its really irresponsible to breed from a rescue edited to add no reputable stud dog owner would ever allow the use of their dog on an unregistered dog nevermind the fact that shes a rescue.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Just one more thought before I really do b*gga off, *if* you can't find (and as I've said I think you won't find) a good stud dog to use with her, and you end up using a dog that isn't from a good kennels, how will you know how closely related they might be? They could be litter siblings, you could unintentionally use the sire even, of your dog.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

no, no contract, im definatly not going to be breeding her with a pit bull!!! and as mentioned all homes will be checked FULLY with the forever promise the pup will always be welcome home no matter what age before being palmed off to someone i have not checked out. with a bribe of a full refund! they will not be sent to live with 'hoodies' etc i will ONLY home them in homes i feel are adequate! if im left with any pups thats completly fine with me, i have the funds and grounds to accomodate that! i secretly want to keep them all anyway! will be heartbraking watching them leave! lol


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

And, sadly, not ALL rescues make you sign an Agreement about breeding. I got Flint from the Rottweiler Welfare Association and they didn't - infact, they weren't interested in Flint's welfare once he'd left the building.

Flint has of course now been castrated, but I just wanted to point out that not EVERY rescue insists on this. I also know someone with a two year old Rottie from the RWA too and he's not been "done" and won't be, he won't be bred from, but this is another reason why I won't have anything to do with Rottweiler Welfare Association. 

"Welfare???" My ar$e. :mad2::mad2::mad2:


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> oh lord Sophie its really irresponsible to breed from a rescue edited to add no reputable stud dog owner would ever allow the use of their dog on an unregistered dog nevermind the fact that shes a rescue.


lets not discriminate..i have a human friend that was adopted!! lol


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Just one more thought before I really do b*gga off, *if* you can't find (and as I've said I think you won't find) a good stud dog to use with her, and you end up using a dog that isn't from a good kennels, how will you know how closely related they might be? They could be litter siblings, you could unintentionally use the sire even, of your dog.


that may be so....i have no other answer im just trying to get my post score up to use my pms lol


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

However good your research/intentions are please please do not breed from a rescue,,, it really is not fair to bring what could end up as future rescues into this world, i know you say you will home check/take pups back etc , but what happens if you have say 6 pups and no suitable homes are found, could you raise/feed/keep them all as forever dogs?
I am at the moment sat on my sofa with 2 dogs both rescues ,i bet one day someone thought they would never end up as rescues, but they did.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> However good your research/intentions are please please do not breed from a rescue,,, it really is not fair to bring what could end up as future rescues into this world, i know you say you will home check/take pups back etc , but what happens if you have say 6 pups and no suitable homes are found, could you raise/feed/keep them all as forever dogs?
> I am at the moment sat on my sofa with 2 dogs both rescues ,i bet one day someone thought they would never end up as rescues, but they did.


i run my own business, own my own home (forgot to mention hoochie has her own room also - its doggy paradise) also have a brand new motor on drive, id like to say yes can afford it, and if i ever do struggle with cash, im sure i can sell something mentioned above which is all much less important to me than her! but thanks for the advice


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> lets not discriminate..i have a human friend that was adopted!! lol


its nothing to do with discrimination, ive rescued dogs loved them as much as my other dogs, but i wouldnt dream of putting them through a pregnancy when theyve had such a bad start...its cruel.


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## fuzzymum (Nov 29, 2010)

This whole thing brings back bad memories for me. I used to work at a vets, and would often help out with c sections. twice in two years we had a bullmastiff bitch brough in for c section. she was rescue, unregistered, and bred to a boy who was beautiful but just too big. 

first time around, the vet pulled 16 puppies from her stomach. 6 were very deformed, so we felt that we shouldnt try to get them to breathe and they were put to sleep. the remaining 10 well.... we tried for nearly 2 hours to get these puppies going. sucking the fluid out of their noses and spitting it in a bucket. rubbing, shaking, drops under the tongue. you name it, we tried it. Feeling their hearbeat slow was the saddest thing. Seeing all 16 puppies laid out on a towel dead was one of the worst sights i have ever seen.

the second time round, we lost 12 puppies. 1 survived. the vet, although very naughty removed her uterus, stating that it was too badly damaged to save. It wasn't, he just didnt want to see any more dead babies. 

please don't do it to hoochie. is it really worth it? what will she gain from the experience? she does not look pure bred to me either. hasnt she been through enough in her life without having to go through this aswell?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Honestly Sophie, the best advice is not to breed from her, I hope you understand that's not a criticism of you, or your dog, you obviously have good intentions but they are unfortunately, based on poor knowledge. 

It doesn't matter what money you've got or haven't got, it's not about that, it's about the ethics of breeding, and what you want to do, is simply unethical, and your perspective is skewed because you obviously love your dog such a lot and think the world of her. I love Indie a lot, I think the world of my big bear, she sits on my knee (all six stone of her) and she gives the best hugs in the entire world, but to breed from her would have been the wrong decision. Breeding dogs is about making difficult decisions, amongst other things, and it's very hard to come to a decision not to breed from a dog.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> its nothing to do with discrimination, ive rescued dogs loved them as much as my other dogs, but i wouldnt dream of putting them through a pregnancy when theyve had such a bad start...its cruel.


i think its cruel not giving her the oppertunity, if i found the most perfect stud and she refused him, then thats her choice and it will never happen, she will not be forced into it, but given the oppertunity. why should she be denied an oppertunity because her background doesnt contain 'incest' (i bracketed that because if you think about it - it is) she will be bred based on her health, and her temperment is what drove me to thought. i actually know 3 people with pedigree dogs, 1 is a german shepard that is dangerous another with a staffy which is also dangerous and third with a shar pei also dangerous, all have biten, its all personal experiences that lead to individual opinions, so in my opinion i would hate to own a pedigree dog!


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Honestly Sophie, the best advice is not to breed from her, I hope you understand that's not a criticism of you, or your dog, you obviously have good intentions but they are unfortunately, based on poor knowledge.
> 
> It doesn't matter what money you've got or haven't got, it's not about that, it's about the ethics of breeding, and what you want to do, is simply unethical, and your perspective is skewed because you obviously love your dog such a lot and think the world of her. I love Indie a lot, I think the world of my big bear, she sits on my knee (all six stone of her) and she gives the best hugs in the entire world, but to breed from her would have been the wrong decision. Breeding dogs is about making difficult decisions, amongst other things, and it's very hard to come to a decision not to breed from a dog.


you say 6stone? how old is she? x


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> i think its cruel not giving her the oppertunity, if i found the most perfect stud and she refused him, then thats her choice and it will never happen, she will not be forced into it, but given the oppertunity. why should she be denied an oppertunity because her background doesnt contain 'incest' (i bracketed that because if you think about it - it is) she will be bred based on her health, and her temperment is what drove me to thought. i actually know 3 people with pedigree dogs, 1 is a german shepard that is dangerous another with a staffy which is also dangerous and third with a shar pei also dangerous, all have biten, its all personal experiences that lead to individual opinions, so in my opinion i would hate to own a pedigree dog!


Sophie, dogs don't choose to breed, we choose to breed them as companion animals. Please don't humanise your girl, she doesn't deserve that, and putting her through having a litter, willingly risking her life to allow her to have that experience is very wrong, she will never sit there and think at the age of 8, I wish I had a litter when I was younger, she won't have any concept of missing out on breeding.

Unfortunately, there are many breeders of KC registered dogs who also shouldn't be breeding. But it isn't an excuse for you to do so either. Pedigree dogs are not all incestuous, and as you don't know a thing about your bitch, you can't say whether she came from a close mating, nor can you say whether the dog you use is closely related, so you're really not in a position to comment. I take it you don't understand about pedigrees and line breeding, breeding to type etc? The reason you love mastiffs is because this has happened, to ensure mastiffs look like mastiffs and have the breed trait of mastiffs, otherwise they wouldn't look anything like them. So your disdain at pedigree dogs for incest, shows again, a lack of understanding about breeding. I really worry that you're going to go ahead despite everything people have told you, without enough knowledge, and risk your bitch. That's your decision, but it's the wrong decision imo.


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## fuzzymum (Nov 29, 2010)

to be honest, no DECENT stud dog would touch hoochie with a barge pole. To me, she looks maybe staffxmastiff or boxerxmastiff. They wouldn't want their brilliant genes watered down. 

Did you read my story about how bad things can go? Do you understand that as a small bitch, if you cross her with a full mastiff, who have far larger heads than her, the puppies heads will get stuck? Do you realise how much pain and trauma you would be putting her through? Are you prepared to risk losing Hoochie, just so she can have the oppurtunity? She is a dog, not a human. 

I have nothing against cross breeds. But from my experience, mastiffs have a hard enough time whelping as it is. Let alone, when you mix all sorts of things into it. 

SHE COULD DIE! ALL OF THE PUPPIES COULD DIE! Don't you get that?!?!??!?!?!?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> you say 6stone? how old is she? x


She's six and spayed, and she's got a little too much pork on her at the moment, she's on a diet, we've got about 6 kgs to loose.

Edited to add, she's also over the height size by a shade for the breed standard.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Before you breed, please go and visit some rescue shelters and see the many reasons just why you should not add to the problem. IF you showed yor bitch, IF she was successful in the proper show ring, IF you had KC registration for her and IF you knew her background, what lines she is from and IF you had a genuinely sound reason to breed from your pet then I would say go for it. But you do not seem to fulfill any of that criteria so go ahead, risk your bitches life and bring into the world 8 or more puppies, not all of which will find good and permanent homes and believe me, people WILL get rid of the pup they have bought from you and not tell you. :mad2:

But first, please read this link - print it out maybe and sit and really think about what you are intending to do rather than just think about why you want to do it. You owe it to your lovely pet to do research on the pitfalls of breeding. *So you want to be a breeder?*


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> i think its cruel not giving her the oppertunity, if i found the most perfect stud and she refused him, then thats her choice and it will never happen, she will not be forced into it, but given the oppertunity. why should she be denied an oppertunity because her background doesnt contain 'incest' (i bracketed that because if you think about it - it is) she will be bred based on her health, and her temperment is what drove me to thought. i actually know 3 people with pedigree dogs, 1 is a german shepard that is dangerous another with a staffy which is also dangerous and third with a shar pei also dangerous, all have biten, its all personal experiences that lead to individual opinions, so in my opinion i would hate to own a pedigree dog!


i have six bitches ive only ever bred one, she too had whelping complications and needed a ceasarian........i have Never bred since and never will, so 5 of my well bred healthy bitches will never be put through a pregnancy...i never want to risk them going through what Luna went through.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> She's six and spayed, and she's got a little too much pork on her at the moment, she's on a diet, we've got about 6 kgs to loose.
> 
> Edited to add, she's also over the height size by a shade for the breed standard.


i only asked as my girl is 2 and already 5 and a half stone..and definatly not a porker...and the comment above yours reckons shes staffy or boxer cross! and the picture i have on here of her are when she was 8months old! shes 2 now and a LOT bigger!!


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## fuzzymum (Nov 29, 2010)

That's ok, its just my opinion, i am entitled to it 

why are you ignoring all of the other posts?


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

CarolineH said:


> Before you breed, please go and visit some rescue shelters and see the many reasons just why you should not add to the problem. IF you showed yor bitch, IF she was successful in the proper show ring, IF you had KC registration for her and IF you knew her background, what lines she is from and IF you had a genuinely sound reason to breed from your pet then I would say go for it. But you do not seem to fulfill any of that criteria so go ahead, risk your bitches life and bring into the world 8 or more puppies, not all of which will find good and permanent homes and believe me, people WILL get rid of the pup they have bought from you and not tell you. :mad2:
> 
> But first, please read this link - print it out maybe and sit and really think about what you are intending to do rather than just think about why you want to do it. You owe it to your lovely pet to do research on the pitfalls of breeding. *So you want to be a breeder?*


why Hoochie??...shouldnt we stop ALL stop breeding untill EVERY ONE of these dogs have found proper homes..shes being victimised because she isnt kc registered...is this actually a magical guardian that guarentees them from being beaten, abused, ending up in a home...if it is then im ONLY open to kc registered


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

i am not going to get into any arguments because i think you already have your mind set on breeding her but you should re read all the posts and see if things can become a little clearer on why people are telling you not to go through with it  but even though it is a old photo she definately looks staffy cross to me and could easily weigh what you say being x mastiff


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

fuzzymum said:


> That's ok, its just my opinion, i am entitled to it
> 
> why are you ignoring all of the other posts?


im struggling to keep up...its non intentional...i dont discriminate...even though my poor hoochie has been lol


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

:frown2: :sad:
Sighs.

Fine.

Ignore everything that decent dog owners are trying to tell you. Go and breed your pet. You will do anyway.

What do we know huh?:confused1:


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

archiebaby said:


> i am not going to get into any arguments because i think you already have your mind set on breeding her but you should re read all the posts and see if things can become a little clearer on why people are telling you not to go through with it  but even though it is a old photo she definately looks staffy cross to me and could easily weigh what you say being x mastiff


i havent made my mind up fully yet anyway..and still havent had her hip xray done..so who knows...im just intrigued as to why people feel so strongly about kc registered i understand you can trace the background but its no guarentee on how the pup will turn out..or a stop to them being mis-treated


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

CarolineH said:


> :frown2: :sad:
> Sighs.
> 
> Fine.
> ...


but thanks...on a lighter note only 3 more posts till i can use my pms!!!


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## fuzzymum (Nov 29, 2010)

Do you understand that hoochie could die?


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> i havent made my mind up fully yet anyway..and still havent had her hip xray done..so who knows...im just intrigued as to why people feel so strongly about kc registered i understand you can trace the background but its no guarentee on how the pup will turn out..or a stop to them being mis-treated


no it isnt a guarentee but you obviously have more information about where your dog came from,ancestor etc
aside from the kc she is a rescue dog, do you know why she was put in rescue in the first place? i dont think you know anything about her parents if i have read correctly?
also she does look a lot smaller and i personally think cross staffy and if you were to put her to a full mastiff you would be putting her in great danger


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sorry but I have to wonder whether this is a troll. 

I have to agree with others who have said the dog does not look like a pure bred bullmastiff. The shape of her head doesn't look right and she's very small compared to the ones I know. She weighs roughly the same as my Lab sized dog. This isn't a dog I'd be breeding from even if she wasn't a rescue dog. The fact that she is a rescue dog just makes it even more wrong imo.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

fuzzymum said:


> Do you understand that hoochie could die?


of course i do...but thats with anything...a human could die giving birth...i could walk out my house now and get hit by a bus...its all possibilitys! i get that theres added risk having her pregnant but i strongly believe everything happens for a reason...we live near hastings cliffs, being pregnant she wouldnt be taken on runs like shes used to but more suttle walking whos to know pregnacy would save her falling off that cliff??!??!


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi,

just a few thoughts, well, well done the OP for researching and taking the tests, hopefully they will come up all right.
these dogs also need their heart checked, they are very big and if the pump doesn't work 100% properly the dam and pups might not have a good future...
in my opinion is probably the case that she's kept a bit longer (another year or more, heart and hips tested and then breeding plans reassessed. The heart check can be done by a cardio-specialised vet and the normal cost of periodical checks). obviously if you need proof of the heart condition, because you are selling the pups, then the price can be higher, don;t know how much higher though.

line/in breeding is a big problem (the biggest in my opinion), and a problem that even some of the ethical breeders on here are somehow ignoring and/or justifying in all sorts of ways (that might be complementing the bitch, strengthening characters, whatever)...just read a few older posts on the subject to check for yourself...however in your case, not knowing your pooch's ancestry, any specimen of your breed can be related (it is much common than you can imagine, for evidence of what i am saying just pick two random pedigrees of the same breed from the KC database and check for yourself) so my suggestion is to select a stud dogs from another mastiff breed (English/Neapolitan/or other types of mastiffs), in that case use the the same criteria you would use for selecting a bullmastiff and keep into consideration the variations of temperament, (both of the breed and of the stud-dog and his relatives) this is hard work (even harder as the temperament variations are different from breed to breed and need to be assessed carefully, but at least the chances of inbreeding are zilch. be advised that temperament is very important (as important, if not more that health).
also importantly, keep some £4-5K available from the beginning, not like: the bank will surely give me a loan, it has been agreed in principle/ or i will be able to sell quickly something of that value....but actually on the debit/credit card...it is very important especially due to the fact that Vets are starting to ask for a deposit/credit card advances before operating on larger/giant dogs.

I wish you good luck with your plan and i am sure your decision will be for the best interest of your pooch!

if you need any help just ask i will be happy to advise further (proviso i know about what you are asking)
cheers
D


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

archiebaby said:


> no it isnt a guarentee but you obviously have more information about where your dog came from,ancestor etc
> aside from the kc she is a rescue dog, do you know why she was put in rescue in the first place? i dont think you know anything about her parents if i have read correctly?
> also she does look a lot smaller and i personally think cross staffy and if you were to put her to a full mastiff you would be putting her in great danger


i am pretty sensible i wouldnt dream of letting a 9stone boy mount my hooch..he would obviously have to be of very similar size..she is definatly not a cross staffy, if you saw her now in the flesh youd be very surprised!


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Sorry but I have to wonder whether this is a troll.
> 
> I have to agree with others who have said the dog does not look like a pure bred bullmastiff. The shape of her head doesn't look right and she's very small compared to the ones I know. She weighs roughly the same as my Lab sized dog. This isn't a dog I'd be breeding from even if she wasn't a rescue dog. The fact that she is a rescue dog just makes it even more wrong imo.


she was taken into the rescue because the previous owner had split from partner and was heavily pregnant, and felt she couldnt cope with a dog and baby. it was not hoochies fault at all, she small in the photos because shes a puppy then...puppys are small then get bigger - did you know this?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> she was taken into the rescue because the previous owner had split from partner and was heavily pregnant, and felt she couldnt cope with a dog and baby. it was not hoochies fault at all, she small in the photos because shes a puppy then...puppys are small then get bigger - did you know this?


Actually, I was going by weight (the weight you give for her at 2 years old) not the pictures so there is no need to act as though I'm too stupid to realise that puppies grow....

Doesn't matter why she was in rescue, the fact is she's a rescue dog and should have been spayed. You know nothing of her family history, what tests (if any!) were done on her parents, grandparents etc, what their temperaments were like. Nothing.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

dimkaz said:


> Hi,
> 
> just a few thoughts, well, well done the OP for researching and taking the tests, hopefully they will come up all right.
> these dogs also need their heart checked, they are very big and if the pump doesn't work 100% properly the dam and pups might not have a good future...
> ...


This is EXACTLY the information i needed, i will be reading and re-reading till its stuck in my memory. ALL your points are valid. i will definatly be having her heart checked also thanks to you  will start looking into other breeds also, obviously not a completly different type of breed but very similar ones like you have mentioned. thankyou so much, and a big wet kiss from hoochie 

no offence to other posts but youve been pretty hard on me...mabey re-read and see it from my shoes! i understand my dog is a rescue and not kc registed but seriously.....isnt that like doggy rasicm??? might sue yo ass' lol


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> i am pretty sensible i wouldnt dream of letting a 9stone boy mount my hooch..he would obviously have to be of very similar size..she is definatly not a cross staffy, if you saw her now in the flesh youd be very surprised!


its not all do do with being a 9 stone mastiff he could be of similar weight/size to your girl but in his background throw pups with very big heads etc also your girls background ( which you dont know) could have terrible whelping complications in the line


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Actually, I was going by weight (the weight you give for her at 2 years old) not the pictures so there is no need to act as though I'm too stupid to realise that puppies grow....
> 
> Doesn't matter why she was in rescue, the fact is she's a rescue dog and should have been spayed. You know nothing of her family history, what tests (if any!) were done on her parents, grandparents etc, what their temperaments were like. Nothing.


but her temperment is PERFECT...so if her parent were aggresive surely thats irrelavant to how the pups will turn out because she is nothing like them....you see where im going with this?


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> This is EXACTLY the information i needed, i will be reading and re-reading till its stuck in my memory. ALL your points are valid. i will definatly be having her heart checked also thanks to you  will start looking into other breeds also, obviously not a completly different type of breed but very similar ones like you have mentioned. thankyou so much, and a big wet kiss from hoochie


obviously, and probably i wasn;t very clear, there is much more than what i have written in the post above, i just did not want to write yet another essay... good luck with whatever you decide

best
D


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> but her temperment is PERFECT...so if her parent were aggresive surely thats irrelavant to how the pups will turn out because she is nothing like them....you see where im going with this?


that definitively not the case. 
if parents were aggressive (and if it's genetics) then the pups of a perfectly behaved bog/bitch will be aggressive (with a very high probability)...it takes many generations (10+) to breed out a complex character, and aggression is certainly a hard-wired character.
there are many studies on the subject...i suggest you check them out 
you may want to start with a broad google scholar search with the following keywords: aggression and genetics in domesticated dogs (or canis familiaris), traits and genetics (or the genetics of traits), behaviour and genetics and start reading up from there. keep in mind that genetics traits are the same in all dogs, some studies on other breeds are valid also for yours (with due considerations).

once again.
good luck and good learning!
best
D


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

just wanted to add thankyou all for your comments, im still going to get her scores done and heartbeat checked and if she fails then she will be booked in for a hysterectomy, if she passes then i will re-think about breeding her after at least another 2 seasons, get her re-checked and go from there..what ever i decide will always be in the best interest of my hooch i love her so much and am not doing this for money as most people do..im doing it for selfish reasons (wanting one of HER pups) as well as believing her gene should be carried on simply because of her temperment. she is a female and this is what females were made to do..she will only ever have the one litter as she is a family pet not a money -maker we have no need for money, the money taken from the pups was going to the kennels to give other dogs food, warmth, even a bed. but thankyou all will have this conversation all over again in a years time lol love Ms Turner & Hooch  x


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> but her temperment is PERFECT...so if her parent were aggresive surely thats irrelavant to how the pups will turn out because she is nothing like them....you see where im going with this?


I'm sorry but this just shows how little you know about it. The temperaments and health of her parents are certainly NOT irrelevant!

Seriously, hold off on breeding her, do some more research, speak to breeders in the breed and get their opinions. Don't just advertise for a stud online and hope for the best.


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> I'm sorry but this just shows how little you know about it. The temperaments and health of her parents are certainly NOT irrelevant!
> 
> Seriously, hold off on breeding her, do some more research, speak to breeders in the breed and get their opinions. Don't just advertise for a stud online and hope for the best.


 ill ignore this and give you a chance to read my post before you decided to butt in!


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## fuzzymum (Nov 29, 2010)

do you realise she could die?

(i'll keep saying it til i get an answer)


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> ill ignore this and give you a chance to read my post before you decided to butt in!


Oh? What didn't I read? You say you've done research yet it certainly doesn't seem like it given that you've had to ask what health tests should be done and your thinking that parents temperaments are irrelevant because your dog is perfect.

As for "butting in" as you put it, well this is a public forum I'm afraid so I'm entitled to "butt in".


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> no, no contract, im definatly not going to be breeding her with a pit bull!!!
> 
> That is NOT what I said. You will be selling puppies to people who may well use them to produce status dog. That is what I said.
> You will have absolutely no way to stop this.
> ...


Then don`t do it. 
You`re not breeding for the advancement of the breed as your bitch is not KC reg and you don`t know her lines. 
So why are you breeding her?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

dimkaz said:


> Hi,
> 
> just a few thoughts, well, well done the OP for researching and taking the tests, hopefully they will come up all right.
> these dogs also need their heart checked, they are very big and if the pump doesn't work 100% properly the dam and pups might not have a good future...
> ...


Dimkaz do you realise this poor dog was from a rescue?


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Oh? What didn't I read? You say you've done research yet it certainly doesn't seem like it given that you've had to ask what health tests should be done and your thinking that parents temperaments are irrelevant because your dog is perfect.
> 
> As for "butting in" as you put it, well this is a public forum I'm afraid so I'm entitled to "butt in".


hmmm...mabey re-read the whole thing...i asked about additional tests...and anyway im not argueing with an idiot..youll probably win on experience...ive had all the advice i needed your a bit late and i HAD rounded up the convo....but theres always one lol back to your hollow!


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Then don`t do it.
> You`re not breeding for the advancement of the breed as your bitch is not KC reg and you don`t know her lines.
> So why are you breeding her?


because her temperment...why you breeding yours? not enough dogs in kennels?


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## fuzzymum (Nov 29, 2010)

do you realise your dog could die?


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## fuzzymum (Nov 29, 2010)

you said yourself that you want a puppy for selfish reasons. why not get another pup and raise her alongside hoochie?


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

archiebaby said:


> its not all do do with being a 9 stone mastiff he could be of similar weight/size to your girl but in his background throw pups with very big heads etc also your girls background ( which you dont know) could have terrible whelping complications in the line


these are all possibilitys..which apply to EVERY dog...heres one for ya..my nan had 5 daughters (not as a littet lol) the first 1 could never have kids the next 3 had children perfectly fine, the third nearly died in labour as hips wernt big enough to let baby pass..........everythings a possibilty and know-one knows for sure...did you read my comment about the steps im taking from now??? im guessing not!


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## fuzzymum (Nov 29, 2010)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> these are all possibilitys..which apply to EVERY dog...heres one for ya..my nan had 5 daughters (not as a littet lol) the first 1 could never have kids the next 3 had children perfectly fine, the third nearly died in labour as hips wernt big enough to let baby pass..........everythings a possibilty and know-one knows for sure...did you read my comment about the steps im taking from now??? im guessing not!


dogs are not people!!!!! :mad2:


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

fuzzymum said:


> do you realise she could die?
> 
> (i'll keep saying it til i get an answer)


i hope not..im praying she lives forever like all dogs do!


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## fuzzymum (Nov 29, 2010)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> i hope not..im praying she lives forever like all dogs do!


Grow up, and get back under your bridge.


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Dimkaz do you realise this poor dog was from a rescue?


Yes, i have read that...
the point though lies with the rescue not putting any conditions on the adoption, and the "property" is now of the OP who might have ethics different from yours or of those of any one else, for that matter.
ethics can be debated on but not disputed unless there is a law regulating it....in the UK there is one of the most advanced laws on animal welfare and that should suffice.
i don;t agree with breeders ethic of selling the pups on (that even if it's done to recoup only some of the costs of breeding) for me is no excuse for breeding in the first place...if you cannot bear the costs, then don;t do it, commercialisation of companion animals in any form for me is unethical, i have said that in more than one occasion, then anyone is free to do whatever one wants...that's the difference between individual ethics...and then there is the Law...
FYI i got my big mama through a rescue which mediated with the owner that couldn't keep her after her husband died of a heart attack, and that did not bear any decision on whether to breed her or not. 
on the other hand i make no exception for issues relating to knowledge...as a scientist and as a citizen i find very distressing seeing people acting against common knowledge and not researching given the enormous possibilities offered by modern technologies (and also using biased lens in interpreting and discriminating between good info and bad info, but this is another issue), this includes the some of the "ethical" breeders on here that knowing how disrupting in/line breeding can be and choose to ignore it because they have been advised by an expert, they themselves are experts or that is a common practice within the breed...to name but a few examples that anyone can read in the posts-past
there are, obviously in my opinion, far more disturbing behaviour in the dog world than mating a rescue. Admittedly i would have like to see that the rescue spayed the bitch but that was not the case and the OP did non think that there was an ethical issues there...you (and other) pointed that out...the OP has read it and has now more elements than before to make up her own decision...

gosh, i have to stop to write essays on here...i get bored myself in reading it back....sorry for being like this!

Best
D


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ah, and so begins the name calling when people don't agree with you. Very mature. 

I'm sure you'll go ahead and breed your dog regardless, I just hope she and her pups don't end up paying the ultimate price for your lack of knowledge and experience and your refusal to accept advice.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> i run my own business, own my own home (forgot to mention hoochie has her own room also - its doggy paradise) also have a brand new motor on drive, id like to say yes can afford it, and if i ever do struggle with cash, im sure i can sell something mentioned above which is all much less important to me than her! but thanks for the advice


Love your girl for what she is and adored family pet and forget about breeding from her.

You cannot liken your friend being adopted to getting a girl from rescue - you have absolutely NO idea what she may have been through before she got to you.

Whilst historically there have been instances of adopted people falling in love with opposite sex family members, it's not common - dog gene pools are much smaller than human ones, and therefore the probability of it happening is far more likely.

You have NO idea of how she will react to being a mother, or how it will change her.

I am a breeder, I do do all the health tests and only breed when I want a pup for show, but bitterly regret taking a litter from one of my girls, it was absolutely the wrong thing to do - and to be quite frank, has now made me think very seriously of if, or when I will ever breed again -

The trouble is, the only time you know it is wrong is when the pups are here and by then it is too late.

You can have all the money in the world, it doesn't mean the vet will be capable of saving her life during a c-Section - again, I know more than a few people this has happened to - dedicated experienced breeders - you don't become hardened to it. I've also known of dogs die having their hips done 

Can you cope with sitting up 24x7 for weeks only to have a pup die screaming in yours arms?

Will you ever forgive yourself if something happened to your girl - I STILL have the guilt over two years on, and she is still very much alive and kicking -but that guilt will remain with me, coming to the fore every time I even consider taking a litter off a bitch going forward.

By your own admission she's a lovely girl - but the gene pool will NOT suffer from the absence of unknown genes containing unknown genetics and possibly genetic diseases - it's a fallacy that bitches need a litter - they need what us humans chose to do to them - and sadly, that is not always the right thing - and if you do decide to breed, this will be so very wrong on many levels


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Ah, and so begins the name calling when people don't agree with you. Very mature.
> 
> I'm sure you'll go ahead and breed your dog regardless, I just hope she and her pups don't end up paying the ultimate price for your lack of knowledge and experience and your refusal to accept advice.


you still havent read it have you..let me help you out;

just wanted to add thankyou all for your comments, im still going to get her scores done and heartbeat checked and if she fails then she will be booked in for a hysterectomy, if she passes then i will re-think about breeding her after at least another 2 seasons, get her re-checked and go from there..what ever i decide will always be in the best interest of my hooch i love her so much and am not doing this for money as most people do..im doing it for selfish reasons (wanting one of HER pups) as well as believing her gene should be carried on simply because of her temperment. she is a female and this is what females were made to do..she will only ever have the one litter as she is a family pet not a money -maker we have no need for money, the money taken from the pups was going to the kennels to give other dogs food, warmth, even a bed. but thankyou all will have this conversation all over again in a years time lol love Ms Turner & Hooch x


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> she is a female and this is what females were made to do..she will only ever have the one litter as she is a family pet not a money -maker we have no need for money, the money taken from the pups was going to the kennels to give other dogs food, warmth, even a bed. but thankyou all will have this conversation all over again in a years time lol love Ms Turner & Hooch x


Absolute RUBBISH - females are not "made to have pups" - talk to those whose females have tried (and sometimes succeeded) in eating their newborn pups - those whose bitches who have suffocated their pups - those bitches who deliver the pups and walk away - and the ONLY time you will know if she is 'made to have pups' is once she has had them and they've survived in the litter for 8 weeks.

My dogs aren't money makes - in fact - even before I start thinking about breeding - they are money losers - out of all my bitches here - just one MIGHT be bred from - she's already had £700 worth of health tests before I even start looking at pre-mates, repeat eye certificates, stud dogs, travel costs associated with stud dog.

Even if Use my own stud dog, I've invested over £1500 in him with bringing him in, health testing him etc - and not made a penny out of him as my standards of what I require from visiting bitches are way too high for the majority.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2011)

:frown::frown:
i been sitting here with my mouth wide open in disbelief 
op have you any more photo`s ?? as i can only see the one on your profile.
if this dog has a shorter than normal tail , then she probably has a `crank tail` and should not be bred at all. you want to breed bullmastiffs that is fine , go to a reputable breeder willing to provide you with a quality puppy as a future brood bitch , this isn`t the way to do things and i feel terribly sad for you poor dog


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> because her temperment...why you breeding yours? not enough dogs in kennels?


I have Rescue dogs and don`t breed. 
I take it you are getting tetchy because we are questioning your motives? 
I`m glad it is making you think at least. 
You have an unregistered pet dog. Please have her spayed and enjoy her for what she is rather than risking her health and putting non-pedigree pups on to an overloaded market? 
Any pup will NOT be like its dam. It will be itself - a mixture of all the genes (of which 50% will be unknown). 
We are questioning your actions because we love dogs - not because we enjoy arguing. Perhaps when you`ve cooled down you could rethink your aims and not risk your beloved dog?


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

diablo said:


> :frown::frown:
> i been sitting here with my mouth wide open in disbelief
> op have you any more photo`s ?? as i can only see the one on your profile.
> if this dog has a shorter than normal tail , then she probably has a `crank tail` and should not be bred at all. you want to breed bullmastiffs that is fine , go to a reputable breeder willing to provide you with a quality puppy as a future brood bitch , this isn`t the way to do things and i feel terribly sad for you poor dog


she has a huge tail! as discussed..


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

dimkaz said:


> Yes, i have read that...
> the point though lies with the rescue not putting any conditions on the adoption, and the "property" is now of the OP who might have ethics different from yours or of those of any one else, for that matter.
> ethics can be debated on but not disputed unless there is a law regulating it....in the UK there is one of the most advanced laws on animal welfare and that should suffice.
> i don;t agree with breeders ethic of selling the pups on (that even if it's done to recoup only some of the costs of breeding) for me is no excuse for breeding in the first place...if you cannot bear the costs, then don;t do it, commercialisation of companion animals in any form for me is unethical, i have said that in more than one occasion, then anyone is free to do whatever one wants...that's the difference between individual ethics...and then there is the Law...
> ...


Well imo anyone who breeds from a rescue especially one of unknown ancestry has No ethics whatsoever.

i kept 3 out of my 4 pups, never made a penny infact a massive loss was all i made.. but like most breeders i associate with i never bred to make money out of her in the 1st place...and you say you dont agree with breeders selling pups on?, well what if your Big Mama had had say 10+ pups? are you telling me you would have kept them all?


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> I have Rescue dogs and don`t breed.
> I take it you are getting tetchy because we are questioning your motives?
> I`m glad it is making you think at least.
> You have an unregistered pet dog. Please have her spayed and enjoy her for what she is rather than risking her health and putting non-pedigree pups on to an overloaded market?
> I would still like an answer to the question - why do you want to breed her?


ive answered that so many times, and actually you guys are making me want to do it more to prove to you all it will be fine....you seem to have a click of kc registered owners, your like that group of people that think there so perfect but are a long way off but winds you so much you just want to smack em in the gob


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## HoochieBullmastiff (Nov 6, 2011)

swarthy said:


> Absolute RUBBISH - females are not "made to have pups" - talk to those whose females have tried (and sometimes succeeded) in eating their newborn pups - those whose bitches who have suffocated their pups - those bitches who deliver the pups and walk away - and the ONLY time you will know if she is 'made to have pups' is once she has had them and they've survived in the litter for 8 weeks.
> 
> My dogs aren't money makes - in fact - even before I start thinking about breeding - they are money losers - out of all my bitches here - just one MIGHT be bred from - she's already had £700 worth of health tests before I even start looking at pre-mates, repeat eye certificates, stud dogs, travel costs associated with stud dog.
> 
> Even if Use my own stud dog, I've invested over £1500 in him with bringing him in, health testing him etc - and not made a penny out of him as my standards of what I require from visiting bitches are way too high for the majority.


no i think your right...the males will be giving birth next season!


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

fuzzymum said:


> do you realise your dog could die?


yes we get the message ,


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2011)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> she has a huge tail! as discussed..


i`m sorry but i do agree with everyone else , your dog may be lovely but she don`t look pure , can you honestly say she is ? no you cannot because she came from rescue , what it says on her rescue papers and what she actually could be is completely two different things. no reputable bullmastiff breeder , certainly not the ones i know , would NOT stud their dogs to your bitch.
why would you want to use a second rate dog against your bitch if she is everything you say she is ?


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> I would still like an answer to the question - why do you want to breed her?


Because she's so adorable  with no concept that pups are often not clones of their parents.

There are literally millions of dogs of all shapes, sizes, pedigrees and crosses with super temperaments - the OP doesn't need to breed their own if that is all she are looking for,a dn the gene pool won't suffer as a result.

There are many good breeders who can sell you a pup with potential for breeding on and who will mentor you on your journey

There are many rescues who can supply you with a dog who has a good and intuitive temperament - you don't need to 'breed your own' who may turn out nothing like their mother at all -

You have no chance of finding out about her ancestors and didn't even meet her mother, you have absolutely no way of finding out if she is the anomaly in her breeding and not so nice characteristics from her parents / grandparents etc may well manifest themselves in the pups 

Whilst important, it's not just all about health-testing, there are so many other factors to consider


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> This is EXACTLY the information i needed, i will be reading and re-reading till its stuck in my memory. ALL your points are valid. i will definatly be having her heart checked also thanks to you  will start looking into other breeds also, obviously not a completly different type of breed but very similar ones like you have mentioned. thankyou so much, and a big wet kiss from hoochie
> 
> no offence to other posts but youve been pretty hard on me...mabey re-read and see it from my shoes! i understand my dog is a rescue and not kc registed but seriously.....isnt that like doggy rasicm??? might sue yo ass' lol


 Do you actually believe this? Do you think just because you don't know what breeding is behind your dog, have no evidence of any illnesses or hereditary conditions her ancestors may have suffered from, this equals a clean bill of health? Dimkaz has a completely different viewpoint from everyone here, and yet they're the one person you want to listen to because you want to breed from your girl, so the other advice isn't as attractive.

As for *racism*, what a load of rubbish tbh, I've had rescue dogs that have been of different backgrounds, I wouldn't have bred from either of them, even though one was supposedly a KC pedigree Labrador, for many reasons, including them both being too old, but mainly because they were rescued in the first place. You can't rescue a dog and claim to be ethical by then sticking them through the huge risk of whelping, particularly knowing the risks, but going ahead for the reason of letting her have the experience, as, which I've pointed out and several others have, she won't ever know she's missed out on.



HoochieBullmastiff said:


> ive answered that so many times, and actually you guys are making me want to do it more to prove to you all it will be fine....you seem to have a click of kc registered owners, your like that group of people that think there so perfect but are a long way off but winds you so much you just want to smack em in the gob


How on earth can you have that hypocritical attitude? You're boast is that your bull mastiff girl is the dog of a life time, and you want to breed from her so she can have the experience of having pups. You wouldn't have a bull mastiff type if bull mastiffs hadn't been bred for as a pedigree in the first place?

In any case, it's a moot point, I'm not sure if you're allowed to ask openly for stud dogs, so the thread may well be locked at any point by a mod.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> ive answered that so many times, and actually you guys are making me want to do it more to prove to you all it will be fine....you seem to have a click of kc registered owners, your like that group of people that think there so perfect but are a long way off but winds you so much you just want to smack em in the gob


theres no clicks of kc owners, some on this thread dont even have kc registered dogs....Sophie people are only concerned for your bitch and any potential puppies she may have should she survive whelping,....its just a pity you dont have the same concern for her, Hooch has had a terrible start in life and now you intend to breed her......i feel so so sorry for this poor unfortunate dog:frown:


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

The OP sounds like a back yard breeder to me!! 
To the OP - have you actually looked on all the sites like Pre-loved, free ads etc and seen just how many bullmastiff puppies are out there and are not selling - and these are KC registered fully health tested pups from show winning pure bred parents!!!??

You have a family pet whom you are willing to risk her life and potentially those of her pups just because you want a cute puppy!!!?? - that is not the actions of someone who loves their dog but someone who wants to try and make a fast buck out of a rescue mutt - she does not look like a pure bred bully - she looks like my bully cross. 
Mine is a lovelly dog/brilliant family pet/gorgeous to look at etc and guess what - he has no nuts!!! - I would never even consider breeding from him regardless of wether he passed every health test going - he cost me £100 and I know the lady never made a penny from the litter, no-one wanted them WHY - because they were from a non pedigree parent, regardless of how cute the mum was and how much of a lovely pet she was!! There are thousands out there with owners just as dumb as you thinking awww I wuuuuuve my dog wouldn't it be cute to have another just like her!! - chances are you won't get one like her except maybe in looks if you don't get a litter of throw backs from whatever mix your dog is, and temperament wise bitches often don't get on with their own offspring and will fight!!!

Have you any idea how much it costs to raise a litter and how much time it takes?!!!
You also say your dog has her own room - lovely, brilliant but can you imagine her being happy to share it with 10 other dogs who you could not sell - I'm sure your neighbors would be happy with all the barking/pooping/smell etc, even if you lived on a farm in the middle of no-where and gave your dogs free range they still cost a bomb to feed/neuter/vaccinate/worm/de-flea etc, I have 6 big dogs and it is roughly £200 per month just to feed them - imagine what 10 would cost and mine are not as big as a mastiff!! And as it is a recession people do not want dogs, especially big breeds because of the cost hence there are so many going for free on adds sites.

I suggest you get your poor dog neutered - and do not try and humanise them, they do not understand what a dog mounting them means, they are driven by hormones, it is the humans choice that they have puppies - they don't know that 9 weeks down the line it means they will be in pain and have mini dogs popping out their butt - they don't think like we do. I have had all my bitches neutered and they don't know any different and are perfectly happy!!
I worked in a vets for 5yrs as a vet nurse and we often had bullys in with birthing problems from deformed pups or pups that were too big, often the owners were left with a dead bitch/dead pups or a litter they had to hand rear. Why not do the decent thing and rescue another dog like your bitch - one that no-one wants and needs a good home??


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> no i think your right...the males will be giving birth next season!


What a stupid thing to say - and it shows a complete ignorance and disregard for your dog for your own selfish needs without a thought for what genetic problems you could be instlling into any babies your girl has for by your own admission, your own "selfish needs" - enough said as far as I am concerned. :mad2: :mad2:

Responsible breeders cannot offer any guarantees in some areas, but at least they have done their best - you will NEVER be able to say that if you breed from this bitch


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## bellababy (Mar 20, 2010)

Health testing is imperitive, so is pedigree and kc registration. How on earth would you know if your dog is pure bred without this? You wouldn't be able to advertise the pups as pure bred as you just don't know! 

You could be unintentionally breeding a whole stack of puppies with problems. 

I know you say you'd like to keep one. I think it's far better for you to buy yourself a puppy, I'm sure your girl will have lots of fun and fullfillment with a new pup (without the risk to her health in the process) 

The people on this forum are a wealth of knowledge and experiance, take their advise, use it and learn from it. I did and can honestly say it completely changed my views and attitude to breeding.

Breeding is not all about pregnant dogs and cute puppies either, one of my pups needed hand feeding every 2 hours day and night! I slept downstairs with the dogs for 9 weeks, cleaned up at least 40 poo's per day! That's just a snippet of the work required but I'd be going on for ages if I carried on


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> ive answered that so many times, and actually you guys are making me want to do it more to prove to you all it will be fine....you seem to have a click of kc registered owners, your like that group of people that think there so perfect but are a long way off but winds you so much you just want to smack em in the gob


do you know i was nice to you and at first thought ok if you are genuinely wanting to breed for ALL the right reasons i'd get in touch with my friend who breeds and shows b/ms successfully and would help you NOT NOW., and FWIW i don't do cliques!,


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2011)

dexter said:


> do you know i was nice to you and at first thought ok if you are genuinely wanting to breed for ALL the right reasons i'd get in touch with my friend who breeds and shows b/ms successfully and would help you NOT NOW., and FWIW i don't do cliques!,


oh don`t worry , the bullmastiff breeders i know would gladly smack this person back in the mouth twice as hard hoping it would knock some sense into them  they are fiercely protective over their breeding stock i think with their attitude they`ll find themselves coming up against brick walls


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Can i ask which rescue she came from?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

HoochieBullmastiff said:


> ive answered that so many times, and actually* you guys are making me want to do it more to prove to you all it will be fine*....you seem to have a click of kc registered owners, your like that group of people that think there so perfect but are a long way off but winds you so much you just want to smack em in the gob


Can't believe I'm reading that & sincerely hope that it was said in a fit of defiance, as breeding 'to prove a point' is just downright low
I'm sure Hoochie is a wonderful dog, but please, do the right thing & don't breed from a rescue, she won't hold it against you & she won't pine away from longing to be a mum, it's an old wives tale
I'm not part of a clique, I'm not a breeder, but I do care about dogs


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Quote from Sleeping Lion

In any case, it's a moot point, I'm not sure if you're allowed to ask openly for stud dogs, so the thread may well be locked at any point by a mod.

And they are correct we don't allow advertising for stud dogs. You have lots of good info here so am closing this thread.


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