# Gutted with my dogs behaviour (Weimaraner)



## WeimyLady (Jan 3, 2010)

Hi again

I posted on here a little while back about my dogs behaviour (2 year old Weim bitch), chasing and general recall issues. The recall is generally ok now, provided there is nothing to be chased.

I've just come back from yet another walk practically in tears because of her behaviour. I had literally just let her off the lead for 30 seconds when she was behind me barking - a horse rider came up behind us - my worst nightmare. She was running around it in circles barking (the rider had stopped). I knew there was no point in going towards her because I wouldn't be able to catch her, so I ran away screaming her name. She came towards me, avoided me, and double backed straight to the horse. She did this three times (ran towards me then back to the horse) before she stopped and I was able to catch her. I screamed some choice words at her (I know this doesn't make any difference), put her back on the lead and drove straight back home. I'm just gutted about this and feel hopeless and like a complete idiot. Some workmen in the distance saw the whole thing and I dread to think what they thought about the stupid woman and her dangerous dog. Incidents like this make me realize how out of control she is and despite my efforts, I can't seem to get a grip on it. I deserve to be reported because she IS dangerously out of control.

I just don't get her, because we'll sometimes have walks where she will behave impeccably. Other times she will be completely wild and I have no control over her what so ever. All "bad" incidents I have had with her seem to stem from her prey drive -- I simply cannot trust her around horses, people running or people on bikes. I have tried my hardest to desensitize her to all of those things. Lord knows I've spend countless hours with her on beach promenards, parks, etc., sitting and watching these things go by. On lead she'll sit and watch these things go by without a peep. But it doesn't make a blind bit of difference when she is off lead and she reverts straight back into chase mode. 

I think my only option now is total avoidance. Avoid anywhere there might be horses and anywhere there might be people running (which seems to be everywhere). I'm already completely paranoid and constantly scanning the horizon for any of those things which makes for some stressful and taxing walks. 

She isn't the type of dog that can be exercised on the lead. She is so high energy that she would be impossible to manage if she cannot run. It is so frustrating because she is generally ok in the house but turns into a completely hyper monster outside. I can only describe her as manic on walks, constantly looking out for her next victim to chase.

I have just run out of ideas. We have done obedience classes and gundog classes. She is GREAT in classes, but what we learn in classes doesn't seem to translate into the real world no matter how much we practice.

If anyone has any thoughts or ideas I would be grateful. I can't even look at her at the moment as I'm at my wits end. I put so much time and effort into her and this is how she behaves. I know people who don't do anything at all with their dogs bar the odd walk here and there and they behave perfectly. I can't help but think dogs are supposed to be fun and de-stressing, but she has the complete opposite effect on me and I DREAD walking her. I've even been thinking about going to the doctors about it all because I've been having anxiety like issues over it -- something I've NEVER had in the past.


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## grandad (Apr 14, 2011)

WeimyLady said:


> Hi again
> 
> I posted on here a little while back about my dogs behaviour (2 year old Weim bitch), chasing and general recall issues. The recall is generally ok now, provided there is nothing to be chased.
> 
> ...


But she's never been taught self control. It doesn't matter that you sit there and watch things she can chase. She needs to learn that she cannot chase unless she is commanded to chase. Self control starts around the house and then gradually in the big wide world. Ask your trainer for self control exercises. If they cannot deliver these, change trainer and find one who can show you.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Don't know if you have read or heard about a book called 'Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts' by Patricia Von Reinhardt but it is worth a read for a dog with high prey drive. There are several exercises in there which do seem to be really helping us.

Sorry to hear you are feeling so anxious and stressed about it - have you tried working with a trainer or behaviourist one - to - one to see if they can help?


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## WeimyLady (Jan 3, 2010)

grandad said:


> But she's never been taught self control. It doesn't matter that you sit there and watch things she can chase. She needs to learn that she cannot chase unless she is commanded to chase. Self control starts around the house and then gradually in the big wide world. Ask your trainer for self control exercises. If they cannot deliver these, change trainer and find one who can show you.


We do self control exercises at home. Waiting for food, leave its, stop, waiting at the door. We have also done plenty of self control during gundog lessons. She'll sit in the rabbit pen steadily no problem, she'll also sit while dummies or balls are chucked around her, etc. In a controlled environment she will do those things. In the "big wide world" I'm invisible and it is all about the thrill of the chase in the heat of them moment. All of what she has learnt goes out of the door.



Dogless said:


> Don't know if you have read or heard about a book called 'Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts' by Patricia Von Reinhardt but it is worth a read for a dog with high prey drive. There are several exercises in there which do seem to be really helping us.
> 
> Sorry to hear you are feeling so anxious and stressed about it - have you tried working with a trainer or behaviourist one - to - one to see if they can help?


I've used trainers. She is great in a controlled environment but it does not translate to the real world.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

If I were you I would go right back to basics. At the moment I'm bringing on a young working retreiver pup ( 17 weeks old ) Since day one, I've been introducing him to as many distractions as I can think of, my friends horses, sheep and cattle, domestic ducks and penned rabbits. People think I'm a bit mad, but I'll even sit outside our local Tescos, near to the trolleys, for an hour just to get him to realise that he cant run and greet people who are doing 'Interesting' stuff. If we meet another dog when out and it wants to play I ensure that the pup is made to sit for a minute or two before being allowed to join in, and when I'M ready to leave play has to stop.He's getting it, it's a slow process but it seems to work for me. I shall be taking him on a couple of shoots shortly, he's in no way ready to participate yet but just by exposing him to that enviroment he'll learn to sit quietly behind the guns and have some patience, and, who knows, he may even get a chance after the last drive, to have a run on a game bird.
Anyway, Good luck, it must be a pain not being able to trust your dog off the lead. Pete.


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## WeimyLady (Jan 3, 2010)

springerpete said:


> If I were you I would go right back to basics. At the moment I'm bringing on a young working retreiver pup ( 17 weeks old ) Since day one, I've been introducing him to as many distractions as I can think of, my friends horses, sheep and cattle, domestic ducks and penned rabbits. People think I'm a bit mad, but I'll even sit outside our local Tescos, near to the trolleys, for an hour just to get him to realise that he cant run and greet people who are doing 'Interesting' stuff. If we meet another dog when out and it wants to play I ensure that the pup is made to sit for a minute or two before being allowed to join in, and when I'M ready to leave play has to stop.He's getting it, it's a slow process but it seems to work for me. I shall be taking him on a couple of shoots shortly, he's in no way ready to participate yet but just by exposing him to that enviroment he'll learn to sit quietly behind the guns and have some patience, and, who knows, he may even get a chance after the last drive, to have a run on a game bird.
> Anyway, Good luck, it must be a pain not being able to trust your dog off the lead. Pete.


What do you mean by go back to basics? she has been exposed to all kinds of situations and things since she was 8 weeks old. In controlled situations she is fine. It is situations like today (getting caught out without any warning to anything that can be chased) that she is dangerous in.


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## Weimerlover (Jul 21, 2011)

The 'terrible twos'.. 'can't hear you, can't see you, lalallalla!' I think you will find most weim owners have pulled their hair out and been in exactly the same situation that you are in now. She is testing her limits with you. Perservere, take a long line out with you if necessary so you can reel her back in if necessary. It sounds like you have the basics in place and have done the training etc, but we all have the times where we want the ground to open up and swallow us and disown our dogs. 

You have to be the most important thing in her life, she has to want to come back to you and you need to reward her everytime she does come back. Do you use a whistle for training? Believe me I have stood in a field with lead in hand, looking like a right numpty, shouting my head off with no dog in sight..... eventually that big smiley face with lolling tongue comes back, and you have to praise despite what you are thinking. Keep with it.... I am no expert but you are not alone! Not sure where you are in the country, but you are welcome to join 'delinquent [email protected]


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

It would help if you gave us some information on how you have tried to desensitise him to the triggers in the environment. Here's my suggestions, let me know if you have done any of them:

* _Look At That game_
When counter-conditioning and desensitising, many use the Look At That (LAT) game, originally devised (or at least labelled and popularised) by Leslie McDevitt in the book 'Control Unleashed'. It offers a way for dogs to work around their triggers in the environment, and teaches them to remain orientated on you, and not become worked up around their triggers. It goes like this:

1) Have a clicker/marker word that your dog is conditioned too, plus food rewards or a toy that your dog finds very reinforcing
2) Mark (click or word) every time your dog looks at their trigger (i.e. a horse/runner in your case). Your dog should reorientate back to you for the food (as they know that the marker equals reinforcement). 
3) Eventually, this game should begin to take effect, and your dog should offer looking at the triggers for reinforcement, rather than looking at them out of stress.

Trouble shooting:
- Keep a high rate of reinforcement going and 'jackpot' the first couple of rewards, i.e. the dog looks, you give 5 pieces of food (instead of just one). This speeds up learning. 
- Keep the dog under-threshold. If your Weimaraner does not want to eat around the triggers, or does not respond to the clicks (and you have sufficiently taught the dog what the clicks/marker word is associated with) then you are most likely too close to the trigger, and should move back. Possibly even behind and obstacle/barrier, and only offering limited views of the trigger before rewarding.
- Don't try and make your dog SIT when they are around triggers. This goes against everything the dog is trying to communicate- that they are anxious and are trying to figure out the situation. They will feel stressed if restrained in a SIT, and most probably will hit breaking point and begin to react at some point.

* _Proof impulse control exercises_
It's great that your dog knows certain impulse control exercises, but these mean nothing in the real world if they are not generalised and proofed in different settings. Work on these behaviours in the house, then in the garden, then in the street, then in the dog park, then in those contexts with higher levels of distractions and slowly work up. If your dog does not succeed, it is a sign that they are too worked up by the environment, and thus more proofing needs to be done in less distracting environments.

* _Work off-lead_
Do lots of games and obedience exercises off-lead, and slowly build up the environments. Play for short periods of time, then release the dog from play, but the second that he re-orients back to you, or if he are still staring at you after being released, reward and continue whatever game you were doing. This builds up focus and teaches the dog that attention on you has huge benefits. Again, you need to work up the distraction levels, and whenever you do try and work in a new environment, you should lower another 'criteria', e.g. increase the rate of reinforcement and the amount of food you give, maybe jack pot the dog at the start to gain attention and focus.

Leslie McDevitt's book 'Control Unleashed' would be great for you I imagine.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> The recall is generally ok now, provided there is nothing to be chased.
> I've just come back from yet another walk practically in tears because of her behaviour. I had literally just let her off the lead for 30 seconds when she was behind me barking - a horse rider came up behind us - my worst nightmare.--- I'm just gutted about this and feel hopeless and like a complete idiot. Some workmen in the distance saw the whole thing and I dread to think what they thought about the stupid woman and her dangerous dog. Incidents like this make me realize how out of control she is and despite my efforts, I can't seem to get a grip on it. I deserve to be reported because she IS dangerously out of controlect


To be honest everything you describe needs nothing more than an effective 3 step obedience course, 3 weeks maybe 4. In the video below is of random, naturally occurring chases, there are two emergencies one where she went after a deer in Richmond, she had been trained never to chase deer in Richmond, elsewhere can chase because she has a recall, another clip in that vid is an aggressive incident where she turned on a dog which was harassing her, she oulled straight out on recall, its all you need, OB.

With the right OB training for a few (3-4 weeks) you can get your dog to be the same as the dog below & for life, which is all you need, (which also builds your & the dogs relationship). Lack of an effective OB course is the only problem, your problems are quite typical of an active dog without OB training, the dog below by the way is no bow and grovel at owners feet submissive dog.

Multiple Recalls From Chases, Different Species An Emergency & An Aggressive Incident. - YouTube


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> To be honest everything you describe needs nothing more than an effective 3 step obedience course, 3 weeks maybe 4. In the video below is of random, naturally occurring chases, there are two emergencies one where she went after a deer in Richmond she had been trained never to chase deer & another an aggressive incident where she turned on a dog which was harassing her.
> 
> With the right OB training for a few (3-4 weeks) you can get your dog to be the same as the dog below & for life, which is all you need, (which also builds your & the dogs relationship). Lack of an effective OB course is the only problem, your problems are quite typical of an active dog without OB training, the dog below by the way is no bow and grovel at owners feet submissive dog.
> 
> Multiple Recalls From Chases, Different Species An Emergency & An Aggressive Incident. - YouTube


I think lack of obedience and recall issues are secondary to the dog's issues of reactivity to certain triggers in the environment. Once the dog can learn that the triggers are no big deal, there would not be an issue with the dog going after horses or runners, IMO.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

This is one common OB training reinforcement exercise you can try, theres no sound but the text explains it all

Dog Training, Leave & Recall Reinforcement Exercise & Application In Real Emergency - YouTube


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> If they cannot deliver these, change trainer and find one who can show you


I agree, that is if you have a trainer? if you do though you need to get rid & ask for a full refund.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> I think lack of obedience and recall issues are secondary to the dog's issues of reactivity to certain triggers in the environment


All the prey in the video are triggers to that dog, why do you thinks shes chasing them? OB gives the recall if the owner wants to recall, any active dog which has no reliable recall is at high risk, that dog chases as & when she wants, she is normaly allowed to chase except a few specific places & not allowed sheep of course.

As I said all this dogs owneres needs is a few short weeks of effective OB traing and then both owner & dog are free for life.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> All the prey in the video are triggers to that dog, why do you thinks shes chasing them? OB gives the recall if the owner wants to recall, any active dog which has no reliable recall is at high risk, that dog chases as & when she wants, she is normaly allowed to chase except a few specific places & not allowed sheep of course.
> 
> As I said all this dogs owneres needs is a few short weeks of effective OB traing and then both owner & dog are free for life.


What I am getting at is that you can teach some dogs behaviours like 'Watch' and recalls, and the dog will comply to them. But that still doesn't make them comfortable around those triggers. Plenty of dogs will respond to a 'watch' command around other dogs, but when not given the command, will stare/stalk/lunge at other dogs.

I just think it's important to make the dog comfortable around triggers first of all, then work on obedience behaviours.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> What I am getting at is that you can teach some dogs behaviours like 'Watch' and recalls, and the dog will comply to them. But that still doesn't make them comfortable around those triggers. Plenty of dogs will respond to a 'watch' command around other dogs, but when not given the command, will stare/stalk/lunge at other dogs.
> 
> I just think it's important to make the dog comfortable around triggers first of all, then work on obedience behaviours.


Best message that guy with the Dobe in the video then & point out where its all going wrong, I like you, you make me smile


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> Best message that guy with the Dobe in the video then & point out where its all going wrong, I like you, you make me smile


But that man with the Dobe (which I am quite sure is you ) might not have had reactivity issues. I am talking about the OP's dog, who sounds as if has reactivity issues, surpassing simple predatory chasing issues. To which my advice is to 1) make those triggers markers for positive experiences and 2) gain more focus outside from the dog, where recall can begin to be worked in too. Once the dog sees the triggers as non-worrying entities, teaching recall and other obedience behaviours will be much easier because the dog is relaxed.


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