# smacking kids



## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

do you!, would you! have you? I don't anymore,, I used to but it was always three counts and then they would have a smack,, not hard i might add but just enough to say 
enough...

Its not on to do it now they understand the rules and there is more than one way to skin a cat:lol:.

so lets throw it out there,, should you smac children I'm not talking about beating them I am talking about a smack on the bum?


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

I think I would slap my children, but not smack or batter!

i think kids these days know we can't do anything to discipline, so they are little bastards!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I think its up to the parents if they feel they should smack, I don't personally but I have a shout like a drill sergeant & it makes everyone stand to attention!


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

I think its necessary and I think the cane needs to be bought back into schools, the kids have more rights then the authority these days and there out of control behaviour is a result of no consequences for there actions.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

i think it should be up to the individual parent although if any teacher ever hit my kid then i`d knock them flat out - i`d much rather be contacted and deal with the situation myself than have some stranger do it


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

I think smacking has it's place as a short sharp shock to drive an important message home- we were always smacked on the hands as kids, and I would do the same to mine if my kids ever, for instance, went to go off with a stranger. 
Alternative methods work really well almost all of the time- in teaching, for instance, you get far more with being positive and patient than by being a bully. Sometimes you want to give them a thump, but as an adult, you're more in control of the situation than they are, and I've always found biting my tongue and keeping calm and positive even if you wanted to scream got the little rotters to do better. A lot of teaching is acting! (which is hard when they say or do something hilarious but you're not meant to laugh!) But I would never advocate smacking in schools.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

i was and i would.

moot point however, cos i hate them all and don't want any... would happily smack most kids around my town though, were it allowed anymore.


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## doogpoh (Jan 8, 2010)

I haven't and don't think i ever could, although i think theres some kids out there that could do with a sore a**e for a few days  my little sister included.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Mine were smacked a smack on the legs or bottom does no harm, they are know grown up and we have a fantastic relationship they are well adjusted youngsters both did well at school both have jobs and it certainly as some claim, make them grow up to be violent i.e hit out.

We all know who are parents that children will test you, push the boundaries and test the limit, i would much rathe see someone give a smack than hold it and hold it and then let go and do some real harm which i know has been done, i do not agree with hitting around heads but a smack on the legs and bottom will not do any lasting damage. 

Kids have been having smacks for years and years then we enter this nanny state no smacking at home no smacking in school and woe be tide anyone that smacks a kid for entering or damaging their property when one time they would have been dragged home with a thick ear, and look what kind of society we have now.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Today i was shopping in asda and this little kid,no more than 3/4 said to what i assumed was his mum,"i'll hit you in the face",had one of my kids said that to me i would have slapped them there and then. But the lady did nothing,but had she slapped him i bet she would have been frownd on.*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

No. Wouldn't hit my dog, so wouldn't hit a child.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Today i was shopping in asda and this little kid,no more than 3/4 said to what i assumed was his mum,"i'll hit you in the face",had one of my kids said that to me i would have slapped them there and then. But the lady did nothing,but had she slapped him i bet she would have been frownd on.*


yep but I bet her kid would have been sorry for his behaviour too.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> I think its necessary and I think the cane needs to be bought back into schools, the kids have more rights then the authority these days and there out of control behaviour is a result of no consequences for there actions.


The cane was always abused anyway. My dad went to Repton with his brother (boarding school) and my uncle was a '***' like a prefect and deliberately got my dad beatings from the head of house on purpose all the time. Same thing would happen IMO. Giving someone detention wrongly is different to giving them a smack across the arse. That leads for a very, very bitter child IMO.

Do those who believe in giving a smack to a child believe its OK to do it to animals too (not being funny genuine question, my Papa never smacked his kids or animals but dad's side did both, animals were animals not family members hence were shot when they moved to the UK etc) ?


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> The cane was always abused anyway. My dad went to Repton with his brother (boarding school) and my uncle was a '***' like a prefect and deliberately got my dad beatings from the head of house on purpose all the time. Same thing would happen IMO. Giving someone detention wrongly is different to giving them a smack across the arse. That leads for a very, very bitter child IMO.


yeah that sucks what happened to him , but that is very rare and in a mainstream school wouldnt happen. I got the cane a few times and deserved each one but I became respectful and knew that my actions have consequences.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> yeah that sucks what happened to him , but that is very rare and in a mainstream school wouldnt happen. I got the cane a few times and deserved each one but I became respectful and knew that my actions have consequences.


My Dad grew up with a deep hatred of his brother which continues now. In mainstream schools now people lie and get others in trouble, heck they do it at my Grammar School  I think it would happen everywhere which is why I couldn't agree with it being brought back, whereas I think a parent knows their child more and is more capable of judging whether they did/didn't do something


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> My Dad grew up with a deep hatred of his brother which continues now. In mainstream schools now people lie and get others in trouble, heck they do it at my Grammar School  I think it would happen everywhere which is why I couldn't agree with it being brought back, whereas I think a parent knows their child more and is more capable of judging whether they did/didn't do something


A normal head master would never ever give the cane to a student from another students word, only if they were caught red handed by a teacher


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> No. Wouldn't hit my dog, so wouldn't hit a child.


wouldn't hit my dog either (if i had one just now) but kids? well they're for smacking if they don't listen.. if i spoke dog then i'd rethink the smacking thing.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> A normal head master would never ever give the cane to a student from another students word, only if they were caught red handed by a teacher


But then to me that defeats the point because kids will just lie and twist things or make sure they never are caught red handed and I don't think it would have very much impact at all. Things that happen at my school, people built structures out of tables and chairs, then opened the door so they bashed into them and sent them crashing down. They'd go in the head of sixth's office and mess around. One of my friend's went down to his boxer's and had a photo taken with his feet on his desk. That friend also played spiderman climbing up corridor walls.

People have also broken windows and knocked wing mirrors off cars with footballs. The only reason they know who has done it is because people admit to it, or they get dobbed in  They never ever catch them red handed that I've seen lol.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> My Dad grew up with a deep hatred of his brother which continues now. In mainstream schools now people lie and get others in trouble, heck they do it at my Grammar School  I think it would happen everywhere which is why I couldn't agree with it being brought back, whereas I think a parent knows their child more and is more capable of judging whether they did/didn't do something


*In my day  if you got into trouble at school you knew you would be in trouble when you got home as well.Sure we didn't like it at the time,but looking back i wouldn't change the way i was raised.*


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> A normal head master would never ever give the cane to a student from another students word, only if they were caught red handed by a teacher


but then why should they have the right to punish someone else`s kid?? i reckon if they brought the cane back they`d have a riot on their hands and a lot of parents would pull their kids out of school


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

owieprone said:


> wouldn't hit my dog either (if i had one just now) but kids? well they're for smacking if they don't listen.. if i spoke dog then i'd rethink the smacking thing.


My dog doesn't listen though, sure there are times he doesn't understand what I want, same with young young kids but he understands basic commands perfectly but when younger deliberately ignored those like kids do at times.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

My dad used to chase my brother trying to give him a smack and my mom would be chasing my dad to stop him. My dad smacked me too once that I can remember and I cant even remember what for, just that I was petrified and crying.

my dad and I dont have a close relationship, Im closer to my mom.Same with my brother.

My brother and I both have stuff we havent told my dad as we know we wouldnt get understanding sympathy but an anger temper. And he wonders why when he finds out we didnt tell him before


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Today i was shopping in asda and this little kid,no more than 3/4 said to what i assumed was his mum,"i'll hit you in the face",had one of my kids said that to me i would have slapped them there and then. But the lady did nothing,but had she slapped him i bet she would have been frownd on.*


Would whould not have sat down for a week Janice had he have been mine! That is half the problem today! kids have no respect! not for one moment saying they should be thrashed (well hardly ever!! once a week most) But they have no fear of nothing or no-one! Short sharp slap never did mine any harm!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *In my day  if you got into trouble at school you knew you would be in trouble when you got home as well.Sure we didn't like it at the time,but looking back i wouldn't change the way i was raised.*


In my day it was the same trust me! If I ever did anything wrong it was omg dad's home soon  kind of thing, but I would change my childhood because he was a bully and its shaped me into who I am which isn't really all that great for the most part. He didn't understand kids and would punish unjustly.

My mum on the otherhand is the 'I am so disappointed I can't even look at you' kind of person and I find that worse if I'm honest, when she goes quiet its bad, I hated it when I was little I'd dance around in her face for her to look at me and she just wouldn't. That must be the best tactic she ever had, she still uses it now


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## lauz_1982 (Dec 14, 2009)

I just have to give Darren (10) 'the look' and that's normally enough. If I shout at him he still jumps as I don't have to raise my voice too much - he takes a telling quite well. When he was younger he got a warning then he got put on the naughty step. One minute for each year of his age. He's not been on it in a while as a warning is enough - he hates having to sit out there! lol! I remember once he said to hubby's Dad 'Granda you better not be cheeky or she'll put you on the naughty step and you'll be there a LONG time'! lol! I've never had to smack him. 

Laura


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Had this debate on here before - I will and was smacked. IMO we need a bit of discipline back for the kids of today - obviously there is a difference between beating your child and tapping them - and I think there should always be warnings first before going straight for smacking.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Would whould not have sat down for a week Janice had he have been mine! That is half the problem today! kids have no respect! not for one moment saying they should be thrashed (well hardly ever!! once a week most) But they have no fear of nothing or no-one! Short sharp slap never did mine any harm!


*Totaly agree with you DT. I blame both the parents nowadays and the do gooders.God i'm sure like myself we thought playing knock knock ginger was daring.These days they feel the need to beat up some AOP or steal a car.*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Totaly agree with you DT. I blame both the parents nowadays and the do gooders.God i'm sure like myself we thought playing knock knock ginger was daring.These days they feel the need to beat up some AOP or steal a car.*


I thought I might get shot down in flames if I said I think its the parents, but for the most part I do! Some cases are different but I think that's a minority...


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Leah84 said:


> but then why should they have the right to punish someone else`s kid?? i reckon if they brought the cane back they`d have a riot on their hands and a lot of parents would pull their kids out of school


I think the parents have the right to allow it or not on the school form not sure tbh.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Exactly, children know what they are doing today, they know nothing can be done at school, one of mine once threatened me with childline I picked up the phone handed it to him and said very calmly, when you have finished just let me have a word please,he quickly changed his mind dont think he even knew what exactly childline was just heard of it on t.v i suppose, bloody likely was mine calling the shots.


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## madferrit* (Sep 17, 2009)

I beat mine regularly with a wet burnt stick


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## lauz_1982 (Dec 14, 2009)

I don't smack Darren because I don't have to - I've found other methods work with him - the naughty step etc. If it didn't then I probably would. I don't disagree with other people who smack their kids - just the ones who step over the line and go too far.

I agree that there are a lot of teenagers I meet nowadays that I would gladly give a good slap too if they were mine. I think the blame does lie with the parents who don't seem to care unless you scold their kids then they suddenly do give a toss. There are too many kids well overdue a good slap. If I heard/seen or thought that Darren was causing upset to anyone else then aged 10 or 16 he will be a very sorry boy indeed - he knows this though so I doubt he would even dare for fear of me hearing about it.

Laura


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> My mum on the otherhand is the 'I am so disappointed I can't even look at you' kind of person and I find that worse if I'm honest, when she goes quiet its bad, I hated it when I was little I'd dance around in her face for her to look at me and she just wouldn't. That must be the best tactic she ever had, she still uses it now


I actually find mental cruelty of this sort more disturbing than a quick smack on the bottom. Acting in this sort of way towards a child is teaching them to go to ridiculous lengths to gain approval and usually adversely affects the way they react with others for the rest of their lives - as you say, your mother's tactics still work even though you are now an adult.

I'm not attacking you and your mum here - my mum used to use exactly the same tactic and so I know exactly how it feels. I loved my mum to bits, but she passed away without my ever managing to stop feeling I'd disappointed her - in fact I still feel that way.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> I actually find mental cruelty of this sort more disturbing than a quick smack on the bottom. Acting in this sort of way towards a child is teaching them to go to ridiculous lengths to gain approval and usually adversely affects the way they react with others for the rest of their lives - as you say, your mother's tactics still work even though you are now an adult.
> 
> I'm not attacking you and your mum here - my mum used to use exactly the same tactic and so I know exactly how it feels. I loved my mum to bits, but she passed away without my ever managing to stop feeling I'd disappointed her - in fact I still feel that way.


Different people have different opinions 

My mum only ever did it until I stopped the squawking and calmed down. The same as giving a time out but it was usually when she had nowhere to put me (like in the car or out somewhere). I found my Dad a lot more frightening than my Mum, he was a bully in general mind.

Her tactics don't work on me now, she still uses them but it doesn't work because I don't care, whenever she is displeased she just goes quiet because she will say something regret, and I'd rather like she did, when I was a child she ignored me and kept it buttoned instead of doing what my dad did by either saying something very derogatory or smacking me


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

It's not smacking though that would solve the problems of horrible teenagers- as someone else said here there are plenty of people who wait and wait until they're bottled up with fury and explode- beating their child- parents who don't care and do nothing might smack thier kids, but as a release of their own frustrations, not as a corrective method of parenting. Firmness and consistancy is lacking in many of these kids lives more than the need for a thump round the lughole now and then.
My nephew is a rotter, my sister buries her head in her hands and finally snaps and screams at him- when I used to live with my parents he wouldn't go to bed for her, or for my parents- who had a very softly-softly approach, but he would for me- because I never changed my methods with him. He would: Go to bed, read a book, stay in bed, go to sleep- if he got up, he went straight back in regardless of tears or tantrums. Asleep in 20 mins usually vs. 3 hours for my mum. He didn't need a smack, he needed to know what would happen, and have consistancy of that outcome.
Sometimes I want to smack my sister though! Argh! :eek6:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think its all about having a healthy balance - love/care/attention - but also discipline - its very important imo to have it all - my dad was the disicplinarain in our house and I used to **** it if i was in trouble and my mum said right wait till your dad gets home ......didnt stop me loving him and having huge amounts of respect for him- he was also great for cuddles and used to take me up to bed and sing silly songs to me  but I knew the boundaries .....something that a lot of kids of today do not know hence why so many dont give a shite about anyone or anything but themselves.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

I was never smacked as children, and Jon and I have never smacked ours, not because we don't agree with it, but because we never had too, as corny as it sounds our kids have always been well behaved and polite, and it's the same now they are teens, well behaved and polite, we don't need to set rules or come down heavy handed because they regulate themselves and never have to be punished... Not that I would dream of slapping them now lol, they are both bigger than me!  I certainly wont judge people who do smack their kids, afterall it's damn hard being a parent at times... It's knowing when to use common sense and knowing the difference between a short sharp shock and systematic beatings

I can remember at primary school, we had an awful headmaster, very strict and if you struggled with the work then that was that, public humiliation!... He used to make me stand at the front of the class while he shouted at me, about why my work was rubbish... I refused to cry, could feel tears but wouldn't cry...He used to punch me on the arm as well just to reinforce the issue, my work never improved, they never actually tried helping me, just meant more humiliation. I bruise easily and one day the whole of the top of my arm was black and blue, my Mum went ballistic!!!! She marched down there and tore him a new one! honestly i'd never seen her so angry, my Mum is only little, but her gob makes up for her lack of height! She said that she and my Dad never hit us, and she'll be damned if anyone else does :thumbup: He never touched me again after that...There was another teacher who used to fling those big heavy rubbers at you as well, they didn't half sting!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

I think there are other ways to achieve discipline without smacking :thumbup:


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## zacknzena (Jan 2, 2010)

sequeena said:


> I think there are other ways to achieve discipline without smacking :thumbup:


I agree i haven't had to smack mine taking there laptop , phone or tv's is bad enough for them , especially my son hates it if he loses his ps 3 :thumbup:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

MissShelley said:


> I was never smacked as children, and Jon and I have never smacked ours, not because we don't agree with it, but because we never had too, as corny as it sounds our kids have always been well behaved and polite, and it's the same now they are teens, well behaved and polite, we don't need to set rules or come down heavy handed because they regulate themselves and never have to be punished... Not that I would dream of slapping them now lol, they are both bigger than me!  I certainly wont judge people who do smack their kids, afterall it's damn hard being a parent at times... It's knowing when to use common sense and knowing the difference between a short sharp shock and systematic beatings
> 
> I can remember at primary school, we had an awful headmaster, very strict and if you struggled with the work then that was that, public humiliation!... *He used to make me stand at the front of the class while he shouted at me, about why my work was rubbish... I refused to cry, could feel tears but wouldn't cry*...He used to punch me on the arm as well just to reinforce the issue, my work never improved, they never actually tried helping me, just meant more humiliation. I bruise easily and one day the whole of the top of my arm was black and blue, my Mum went ballistic!!!! She marched down there and tore him a new one! honestly i'd never seen her so angry, my Mum is only little, but her gob makes up for her lack of height! She said that she and my Dad never hit us, and she'll be damned if anyone else does :thumbup: He never touched me again after that...There was another teacher who used to fling those big heavy rubbers at you as well, they didn't half sting!


Sounds like my old art teacher, he picked me up by my hair in front of the class & bawled me out because he thought my work wasn't good enough, but I went to a private school & they're a law unto themselves & I'd never send my kids to one, horrible places. My real parents never smacked, my auntie & uncle never smacked & my nan & granda never smacked (I lived with all these people during my childhood) but I had a stepmother who specialised in psychological abuse & in some ways I feel this is just as bad as beating up your kids


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## HGriffin12 (Sep 1, 2009)

I'd prefer not too, I think it's up to the parents. 

I know with my nephew how sometimes you can't get anywhere with him and a small smack on the hand makes me take notice (i'd do that) whereas a smack on the bum i don't think i'd feel comfortable. 

My MIL believes in it, so if once baby arrives i feel the same, that should be a nice battle on my hands!! (when it's older obviously).


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

My old man only beat me once with a clothes brush on the behind for nicking a quid and spending it on coconut ice...I still have the brush and still can't stand coconut ice.. I never stole again.

We had a teacher who taught Film Studies and English...If you got less than 6 out of 10 marks for the previous week...you got the strap.Names were called out at the start of the lesson and the unfortunates were lined up.I always came top of the class in this and Art...


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

My mum used to hit me as a child, cant say it ever really bothered me. I would rather not smack my children I like to sit them down explain why im cross with them et.c and that i am taking so and so away from them or they cant do something e.t.c 

I have smacked in the past and i guess i prop will in the future, But i do feel its were IVE lost control of the situation. I shouldnt have to use pyhsical threats to get my children to behave although i do agree they do work. Thankfully saying "ive had enough right im going to count to 3, 1.....2......." and very very rarely do i ever get to 3


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## Koira (Aug 11, 2010)

I got into all kinds of trouble as a child, and got smacked on the butt plenty. XD
Honestly I don't think there was anything else that my parents could have done. Explaining to a kid is like talking to a wall. As I got older and taking was possible, it wasn't necessary anymore. 

If you look at nature, nips and bites are completely natural between parents and offspring while they're young. 

While I agree that adults who aren't parents shouldn't hurt kids, (i.e. teachers), most parents don't punish their kids about incidents at school, which makes it hard to know what's better. D:


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## LaughingHeart (May 23, 2010)

A damn good slap on the butt was my punishment for getting 'out of hand' My lovely native American mum knew how to slap too! I grew up with a great respect for others and myself...........Mind you!....I still like my bum smacked!
Over to you ladies....Whops!...... I'm soooo naughty!!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

LaughingHeart said:


> A damn good slap on the butt was my punishment for getting 'out of hand' My lovely native American mum knew how to slap too! I grew up with a great respect for others and myself...........Mind you!....I still like my bum smacked!
> Over to you ladies....Whops!...... I'm soooo naughty!!


thats just............ naughty!:lol:


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

owieprone said:


> wouldn't hit my dog either (if i had one just now) but kids? *well they're for smacking if they don't listen*.. if i spoke dog then i'd rethink the smacking thing.


what an awful thing to say!!!!!!!! my daughter doesn't listen but I wouln't smack her for it.. just what kids do..

no I don't, never had to as it never gets that far... when you raise your hand, you've lost control of the situation


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## hayleyb (Feb 10, 2009)

i would be more likely to smack my children than my dog or cat, children can understand the difference between right and wrong but animals cant.

i dnt have children so dnt really no if i would smack or not, i was never smacked but then my parents had no reason to as i was quite a good child. however my brothers and cousins were smacked and they are no different to me.

like everythin there are extremes but i think some children do need a good smacking to keep them grounded


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

i think its ok to smack on the bum/legs

this is how i was raised and i knew there were consequences


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## katie200 (May 11, 2009)

i dont agree with smacking kids as it just show them how to hit other people i think there other ways of going about it like takeing away toy or nourty step thats just my opion though


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I would never smack a child or an animal. Don't you dare raise your hand to me/other kid whatever *whack* stupid and pointless. You don't need to beat your child to get them to listen and it doesn't teach them anything. Just my opinion of course I'm sure some people will insist my children would be hooligans out beating up old ladies


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## LouJ69 (Feb 28, 2009)

A few clatters never did me or my brother any harm when we were growing up, although I was usually the one getting most of them!lol
I think a smack is fine, obviously nothing major, but there's nothing like an Irish mammy's clatter across the back of your bare legs to stop you being bold!!!! Believe me-it worked :lol:
Although, the flip side of that was when I finally grew, I started telling my mam that I was big enough to hit her back & that certainly didn't go down too well


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

No need to when I hold the passcode to the internet :lol:

Of course my lot are older now, my persnal opinions have varied aong the years, I have never really smacked my kids a lot as other tihngs have worked,but if I have it's been for good reason and there's no way I'd have let some pompus rule maker from whatever govement group who probably hasn't even got kids tell me I can't,

I rule in favour that if kids can't be smacked they should be banned from supermarkets when they scream :lol::lol:
Clare xx


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

I only ever tapped my daughter when she did something dangerous and that made her cry. I have never had to smack her. Now all I need to do if she is playing up is say 'If you don't stop I will smack you' or 'bed or chair' and she will behave herself. It never lasted long as she was a well behaved child. But as soon as she hit her terrible twos I admit I slapped her hands a few times but never hard! Just enough to shock. My 'parents' used to hit me with slippers and sticks and really beat me from what I hear but I can't remember. I'm fine now anyway and I would never do that to my child. She knows the bounderies and you just have to yell and she stops now. Smacks are reserved for dangerous behavior like running out infront of a car.

Edit: Oh and I'd never do that in public. I just say 'wait until I tell daddy'


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> I would never smack a child or an animal. Don't you dare raise your hand to me/other kid whatever *whack* stupid and pointless. You don't need to beat your child to get them to listen and it doesn't teach them anything. Just my opinion of course I'm sure some people will insist my children would be hooligans out beating up old ladies


This thread is about smacking, very different to beating i would never beat my child but they did get a "smack" when they needed it.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

round and round we go!

I am not opposed to smacking a child. I can count the number of times my kids have been smacked on one hand, howver it was an effective tool and lesson learnt.


I am very opposed to smacking a child as a first punishment, as the only form of discipline and of smacking hard enough to leave a mark.


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> I think its necessary and I think the cane needs to be bought back into schools, the kids have more rights then the authority these days and there out of control behaviour is a result of no consequences for there actions.


I totally agree with this, the cane should be brought back into school, these kids KNOW the teachers cant do anything to them so they play up even more and cause so much trouble in schools. I feel sorry for the teachers. Give them detention...whats the point, they dont mind having it anyway. A letter home to the parents....so what, once they get a mouthfull of their parents which goes in one ear and out the other, then its back to being a little t**t again. Nothing works.
I was given a slap when I was younger and it taught me well, it did not harm to me at all, and my mother would only have to do the "Glare" with her eyes and I KNEW I had done wrong.
Slapping a child on the bum (fully clothed) does not do any harm at all.
I have been in shops and watched these little darlings shouting and screaming at their parents, some even kicking and punching their parents, and the poor parents look so embarrased and dont know what to do for the best. Kids these days DONT listen to a word they are told, and wont listen to reason, wont take any advice on how naughty or bad they are being.
I used to tell my kids off the first time they did wrong and then explain to them the next time it would be worse, then the second time was the last as they would be sent to their rooms with a slap on the backside, no tele or music. Then if they did it a third time (which wasnt very often) it would be a grounding for two days solid with no let up.
A slap does no harm......that is my opinion on it.
I reckon they should get all the louts into an Army Boot Camp. or make them join the Army.
When I was young, the police would give the kids a clip around the ear and march them off to their homes, then they would get another clip from their parents.


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

I'm 17 and if my mum hit me know for whatever reason i'd kick her head in tbh. That wasnt always the case. It's always a few teeny steps from a smack to taking a regular beating. I love how when it comes to dogs on here its all lala land with treats and biccies and positive reinforcment - slight mention of even rolling your dog over is classed as cruel! But it's acceptable to clout your kids because they dont do as you say. My parents don't rule me, i'm my own person and i make my own decisions and funnily enough they dont always know best. As for all this respect everyone seems to want? Heres an idea - f*cking earn it first.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

I'm against.

I've got to be honest, a lot of my beliefs have stemmed from a study of animal (mostly dog) behaviour and training. The fact that ALL animals from goldfish, through dogs and horses, to great apes and people all learn in the same basic way says it all to me.

The basic laws of learning are the same:

Behaviours that cause good things to happen will be repeated.
Behaviours that do not cause good things to happen will not be repeated.

Personally, I intend intend to raise my kids using the same principles I raise animals with. Good behaviour will be suitably rewarded. Management used to prevent unwanted behaviour. Distractions. Teaching alternative, incompatible behaviours. And perhaps most importantly at all, bad behaviour will NOT be rewarded or self-rewarding in any way.

I have no problem with telling kids off, short time outs for young kids, revoking priveledges in older kids etc.

But smacking? No. Not for me. 

I do not think it is logical, or reasonable, to tell a child that "violence is never the answer" or "it is wrong to hit" when you smack them.
I also do not like the lesson that may be learned from it; which is that if someone does something you dislike it is acceptable to hit them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think smacking is the end of the world and what other folks do is there business. But personally, I think there are better ways. Virtually all of the badly behaved kids I've known came from slap-happy parents, yet the most well behaved, polite, confident, well mannered children I have ever met are from a smack - and shout - free family.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

OMG I started this thread and its popular:lol: PMSL .... how cool am I


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> OMG I started this thread and its popular:lol: PMSL .... how cool am I


LMAO :lol: and hey mate I never killed it for ya :thumbup:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> I'm 17 and if my mum hit me know for whatever reason i'd kick her head in tbh. That wasnt always the case. It's always a few teeny steps from a smack to taking a regular beating. I love how when it comes to dogs on here its all lala land with treats and biccies and positive reinforcment - slight mention of even rolling your dog over is classed as cruel! But it's acceptable to clout your kids because they dont do as you say. My parents don't rule me, i'm my own person and i make my own decisions and funnily enough they dont always know best. As for all this respect everyone seems to want? Heres an idea - f*cking earn it first.


My boys are 20 and 23 they got a smack when they were younger if they did anything wrong, i have to say we have a huge respect for each other. Ask for kicking anyones head in let alone a mum, well ime lost for words. I think when you have grown up a bit ime sure you will realise parents do know more than you youngsters like to think.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> OMG I started this thread and its popular:lol: PMSL .... how cool am I


YAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol:


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2010)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> I'm 17 and if my mum hit me know for whatever reason i'd kick her head in tbh. That wasnt always the case. It's always a few teeny steps from a smack to taking a regular beating. I love how when it comes to dogs on here its all lala land with treats and biccies and positive reinforcment - slight mention of even rolling your dog over is classed as cruel! But it's acceptable to clout your kids because they dont do as you say. My parents don't rule me, i'm my own person and i make my own decisions and funnily enough they dont always know best. As for all this respect everyone seems to want? Heres an idea - f*cking earn it first.


This is the attitude that makes people think kids do need a smack every now and then...
Kids should respect adults. full stop. there is no need for a parent to "earn" respect from their children. Nor should teachers. It should be a given. And every teenager thinks that they know better than their parents - this changes later in life. I used to think it,nw I can see my mum was always just looking out for me... they have lived more, and learned more....

The difference between kids and dogs is dogs dont speak english. Most of the time if a dog disobeys its due to training issues. Kids however have the ability to make judgements, know right from wrong and purposely disobey.

I got a few smacks when i was a kid, they didnt even need to be hard or hurt! It was just let us know that we had been REALLY bad...a sharp shock to the system.
Both me and my brother have good relationships with my mum and dad, never been in trouble and done well for ourselves. 
And there is a big difference between a smack and actually hitting/beating a child.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

If my mom hit me now Id smack her back too more so out of reaction probably. My mom and I had a big tiff last week which is rare for us (and it has ruined are close relationship somewhat) but I have been the bigger person in apologizing, but when I asked for one back crying down on the phone my mom said " Why should I " why itd be the adult thing to do youd think.

She did apologize eventually but it didnt feel like a real one seeing as I had to beg for it.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

so most are for giving a child a control smack to drive home a point,,, but as has been said if you act in the right way the child will follow your lead,, good point,, 

as for smacking animals,, I am not sure,,, they don't smack in the animal kingdom but they do snarl and bite,, personally i would rather not bite a dog, they aim better and seem to get the spot every time, but i like the idea if growling at a dog.... 

I would be most unhappy if they brought the cane back into schools, but i do belive something need to happen my son has been introuble for a fight he got caught up in,, not saying he is sqeaky clean he uses baffling words (gonna be a politicain lol) now when he and the other boys got called in I would have been shocked had he got the cane for a small scuffle,, 

there is a fine line to walk in allowing them to be children and guiding them in their social mistakes,,,


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2010)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> I'm 17 and if my mum hit me know for whatever reason i'd kick her head in tbh.


And if you were mine you'd be very sorry!
What an attitude!


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And if you were mind you'd be very sorry!
> What an attitude!


same here, i dont really get on with my mum but i would never raise my hand to her either...


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Lol...one of mine threatnd to hit me once, he was 18....to which i replied if you do you'd better either make sure you can run fast or that it's a good one.....they got the picture....respect....they might all be bigger than me but they know where to draw the line  xx


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

To be fair, I was smacked on occassion myself as a kid and it never did me any harm. Just don't plan on doing it myself.

But the idea of hurting my mum disgusts me!


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## lauz_1982 (Dec 14, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And if you were mine you'd be very sorry!
> What an attitude!


Couldn't have put it better ....

Laura


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And if you were mine you'd be very sorry!
> What an attitude!


well said!!!!! totally agree


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> I'm 17 and if my mum hit me know for whatever reason i'd kick her head in tbh. That wasnt always the case. It's always a few teeny steps from a smack to taking a regular beating. I love how when it comes to dogs on here its all lala land with treats and biccies and positive reinforcment - slight mention of even rolling your dog over is classed as cruel! But it's acceptable to clout your kids because they dont do as you say. My parents don't rule me, i'm my own person and i make my own decisions and funnily enough they dont always know best. As for all this respect everyone seems to want? Heres an idea - f*cking earn it first.


* If you were mine you would see your way to the door and would never come back.17 with that attitude? something tells me you've been spoilt.*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> I'm 17 and if my mum hit me know for whatever reason i'd kick her head in tbh. That wasnt always the case. It's always a few teeny steps from a smack to taking a regular beating. I love how when it comes to dogs on here its all lala land with treats and biccies and positive reinforcment - slight mention of even rolling your dog over is classed as cruel! But it's acceptable to clout your kids because they dont do as you say. My parents don't rule me, i'm my own person and i make my own decisions and funnily enough they dont always know best. As for all this respect everyone seems to want? Heres an idea - f*cking earn it first.


You wouldnt get the chance to kick my head in if you were mine cos u would be out that door so fast your feet wouldnt touch the ground love - shame on you for saying that


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

No never smacked mine, used counting 2 10 method, it still works and my kids r 19 and 14 lol, however there r a few so called adults i'd cheerfully smack :thumbup:


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## dee o gee (May 21, 2010)

I was given the cane when I was young, think I was only ever hit with it a handful of times, after that the threat of it made me behave. I was smacked a few times as well. 
I don't agree with the arguement that smacking kids shows them that violence is ok, I know loads of people that were smacked as youngsters and they have turned into well balanced and well behaved adults (Id like to think myself included!). The violent and unpredictable adults that claim to be that way just because their parents smacked them a few times have a lot more issues going on than just a few smacks when they were younger. 
If I ever have kids I wouldn't be against smacking them, but it would be used as a last option after other methods.

As for whether the cane should be used in schools Im undecided. Im finished school now and I have lost count of the number of times my classes were interupted by messers that think it's great craic to wind up the teacher and disrupt the class, yet the teacher is powerless to do anything. Send 'em to the office (they don't care), give them demerits (they laugh at them), give them detention (they won't go), suspend them (they think of it as a holiday), kick them out of school (a permanent holiday) or call the parents (sometimes just as bad as the kids). The kids know that the teacher is powerless. One teacher at my school allegdely hit a pupil for misbehaving and a facebook page was set up making fun of her. Another teacher at my school throws screwdrivers and pencils at students who are playing up!  But I can see how it could be abused if it was brought in.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

I have a 4 year old daughter and have never and will never smack her. I do not agree with it. It solves nothing. Except violence is an answer.......which we all know its not. 

My daughter is a very polite, brilliantly behaved young girl without the need for smacking. There are other ways of disipline, the last thing i want is for my daughter to be afraid of me in any way. So shouting is also a no go, or extremely rare in this house!!

I wouldn't smack any animal nor would i even think of hitting a child. 

I was never hit by my Mum before she passed away when i was 4, nor was i hit by my Dad ever either.... and yes while i was a little unruly, this was when i decided too be a b!tch at 16 years old! It was a choice, a bad one but still a choice by me! My Brother on the other hand has made it very very well without any real ''bad behaviour'' :lol: i can still be head strong and determined leaning towards stubboness :lol: :lol: but i also have a great life now a little later but i got there! Lol!

There really really is not need to raise a hand to a child. Its a nasty way of venting anger thats all. No benefit to anyone...especially not the child involved.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> I'm 17 and if my mum hit me know for whatever reason i'd kick her head in tbh. That wasnt always the case. It's always a few teeny steps from a smack to taking a regular beating. I love how when it comes to dogs on here its all lala land with treats and biccies and positive reinforcment - slight mention of even rolling your dog over is classed as cruel! But it's acceptable to clout your kids because they dont do as you say. My parents don't rule me, i'm my own person and i make my own decisions and funnily enough they dont always know best. As for all this respect everyone seems to want? Heres an idea - f*cking earn it first.


Maybe if you reposted that but without the language and attitude you'd get the respect.....You say your 17?? I hope you act more mature in real life than how you've just come across there.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I was in my local Morrisons this afternoon and there was a "family"of 3 maybe 4 generations of females probably ranging from 2years old to 45-50 years old and to be honest if they are a product of this "no smacking "culture we havent got a cat in hells chance of surviving.I for one could have cheerfully f****** strangled every last one of them


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

The kids post on here which I'm not going to repeat says it all...'respect' my foot...she 'aint gonna get much from her future kids with that attitude.

In Aboriginal tribes,life and death decisions are made by the ELDERS not by the stroppy young warriors with the biggest spears.Because of their life experiences they know better how to behave and survive.
The young THINK they know best and rush into wars and the like...the older sit and shake their heads because they know better but aren't always listened to.

And I agree with the odd smack when all else fails.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

gotta say id have never hit my ma or da back and still wouldnt, far to much respect for them.

the look they give is enuff to make me stop in my tracks sometimes and the tone! .. You know when you're cruisin for a bruisin :lol:

i dont even swear in front of my ma (my da passed away 2yrs ago) and neither do my sibs, my eldest sister is 31 and she wont smoke in front of her :blush:

i do the same with my nephews and neices and i have smacked their bum on occasion and they knew it was because they had been told to behave and they wouldnt.

My nephew is starting secondary school tomorrow and i keep reminding him he's still not too old to go over my knee 



I see no problem in smacking kids but would never smack my dog - im such a hypocrite!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Starlite said:


> My nephew is starting secondary school tomorrow and i keep reminding him he's still not too old to go over my knee
> 
> I see no problem in smacking kids but would never smack my dog - im such a hypocrite!


How come you start school so early in Scotland?

And yes, you are a hypocrite but an honest one


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

i dunno tbh

the kids stop 2 weeks earlier than England (i think) so they are back tomorrow while we have this lovely weather :devil:

I suffered the same fate, so they will survive 

couldnt cope with school again i dont think!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Starlite said:


> i dunno tbh
> 
> the kids stop 2 weeks earlier than England (i think) so they are back tomorrow while we have this lovely weather :devil:
> 
> ...


It makes sense!

Which means it's not long until the kids in England and Wales go back - WOOHOO!!

Me neither, I don't know how I managed to stick to such a routine!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

got to say i have never hit my child..she may be very very spoiled..but,,she does know how to behave....reading some replies further up.....my god..what is this world coming to...i would never ever speak out of turn to my parents and i am now 38 years old...its all down to respect...dont get me wrong i do have to bite my tongue ..but.whats happening with kids these days guys?????

if i was to upset my mam...i would be so upset..devastated


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## missyme (May 28, 2008)

i have never smacked my kids but then iv never had too there both kinda good 1 is 17 and the other is 11 i shout a lot though lol


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't believe in smacking kids, if you wouldn't smack your animals then why would you smack your children? 

I think it shows either a lck of control if done in anger or a knee jerk reaction. I think children learn far bnetter from other forms of punishment. 

I'm not saying that a smack is akin to child abuse (although in some cases it is!) but I don't see how children are expected to always know right from wrong & to grow up thinking it's acceptable to hit people or be hit.

My sister has never smacked her two children & they are far better behaved than alot of kids.

My dad used to hit us quite a bit. The time came when I was old enough to realise that he was a complete b*sta*rd & when he went to hit me (for the last time) I picked up a plank of wood & belted him with it telling him that if he ever touched me again I would call the police.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I just wonder when i see lots of kids today, what discipline do they get? the views on smacking have changed in many families and in schools and the lack of repect and behaviour has gone down hill rapidly, mine are in their twenties now have so much repect for me always have had and have respect for others they were never a problem in school, i never beat them as some on here seen to confuse the 2 but if they did wrong repeatedly then they got a smack leg.


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## lizzyboo (Apr 7, 2010)

mine have had smacks in the past.......... but that was before i realised if i am smacking.......firstly what is it teaching my kids and secondly the minute i raise my hand i have lost control!

i now shout like a banshee at my kids but the one that gets them the most and reduces them to tears is the 'i am so disapointed in your behaviour, i would like you to leave the room' said in a really low quiet voice! that gets them every time.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> I just wonder when i see lots of kids today, what discipline do they get? the views on smacking have changed in many families and in schools and the lack of repect and behaviour has gone down hill rapidly, mine are in their twenties now have so much repect for me always have had and have respect for others they were never a problem in school, i never beat them as some on here seen to confuse the 2 but if they did wrong repeatedly then they got a smack leg.


*Totaly agree with you.And i don't think that beacause you smack a child you have lost control.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Totaly agree with you.And i don't think that beacause you smack a child you have lost control.*


I was just going to reply to that one never have i lost control, i think whenever anyone loses control its because kids have pushed and pushed to you the limit, kids should not be allowed to push any parent to the limit if the kids know where their limits are, mine were never frightened of me but knew if i asked them to stop doing something and asked several times then they would get a smack leg, smacking was never a first resort.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Whilst i agree that alot of kids today appear to have no respect I don't think it's got to do with smavcking or lack of corporol punishment in schools. i think it's more to do with parents who can't be bothered. 

Too many parents seem to ignore their kids or think it's someone elses responsibility; schools, the government, etc when really if they got off their *rses & actually recognised their responsibilities then their children may be better behaved.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst i agree that alot of kids today appear to have no respect I don't think it's got to do with smavcking or lack of corporol punishment in schools. i think it's more to do with parents who can't be bothered.
> 
> Too many parents seem to ignore their kids or think it's someone elses responsibility; schools, the government, etc when really if they got off their *rses & actually recognised their responsibilities then their children may be better behaved.


I certainly agree with that statement, children seem to be anyones responsibility than that of the parents.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst i agree that alot of kids today appear to have no respect I don't think it's got to do with smavcking or lack of corporol punishment in schools. i think it's more to do with parents who can't be bothered.
> 
> Too many parents seem to ignore their kids or think it's someone elses responsibility; schools, the government, etc when really if they got off their *rses & actually recognised their responsibilities then their children may be better behaved.


*I agree a lot of parents can't be botherd to control their kids these days.Having said that,the goverment and do gooders that have taught kids they can report their parents if they smack them have a lot to answer for.As for schools,when i was a kid the schools were like 2nd parents,if you crossed them you had your parents to answer to.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Human rights i think its called, yes kids should have rights, rights to to be loved, fed and brought up in the correct way discipline and to be happy. Giving too many rights to children can be disasterous if they havnt got the former mentioned, they now have the rights to terrorise the streets, shout and hit teachers disrespect the law, all because they have rights. WRONG!


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Human rights i think its called, yes kids should have rights, rights to to be loved, fed and brought up in the correct way discipline and to be happy. Giving too many rights to children can be disasterous if they havnt got the former mentioned, they now have the rights to terrorise the streets, shout and hit teachers disrespect the law, all because they have rights. WRONG!


and the reason is not lack of smacking, it is a failure on the parenyts part to provide the things you list first


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Tink82 said:


> and the reason is not lack of smacking, it is a failure on the parenyts part to provide the things you list first


. . . . . . and all the doogooders that give the children these rights, i actually feel sorry for many parents bringing children up in this day and age tbh.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

For me smacking is not a loss of control its merely a form of discipline - mostly the last resort if warnings have been given and not heeded - the only time I would smack instantly is if its something really really really bad - in my experience with my stepkids - they get three warnings and nine times out of ten they heed it on the second one  if they dont then they know the consequences - thats what lacking imo in some of todays kids - they dont "think" about the consequences because a lot of the time there isnt any for them - there is not structure and routine to their discipline.


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## gypsybitch (Aug 6, 2010)

i was in the bank the other day and my lad was playing up i warned him 3 times that i would smack him if he carried on, he carried on so i smacked his bum not enough to knock him over but enough for him to know i ment business. when i warned him i had people looking at me like ' give him a good crack will you' and then when i smacked him i got looks of 'omg how could you do that' so i dont care what others think of me anymore i do what i feel is needed at the time and if it is a smack then so be it.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> . . . . . . and all the doogooders that give the children these rights, i actually feel sorry for many parents bringing children up in this day and age tbh.


what? give them the right to be fed/loved/housed in healthy conditions?

I'm bringing up my DD just fine, she does not need smacks...

Having worked with police and in schools I can safely say it is not the majority of children that are like this, it is the ones that don't come from 'good' families, the ones that get beaten, live in poverty, have parents that do not care where they are all day/night... let toddlers play in the streets, commit crimes themselves... The parents that don't lay down the boundries or set the best examples, show no respect towards public sector workers... Don't bat an eyelid when the child is punished at school or kick off and defend their behaviour....

and I have to ask, what exactly is a 'dogooder'??


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

I've never had the need to physically assault any of my children and believe it teaches them that it's alright to hit others if those others get out of hand.
Violence has a tendency to influence resentment and resentment more often than not cultivates revenge and retaliation.
I was once witnessed a woman on a busy shopping street hitting a small child so hard that the child fell over and banged his head on the pavement. The child in question screamed so loud from the audible impact that it drew the attention of many other passers by. The mother, if that was what she claimed herself to be, demanded that the child get up and stop making a show of himself. When he refused and continued to scream she physically dragged him to his feet by the arm then threatened that if he didn't shut up she would give him something real to cry for.
After she was confronted about her conduct she showed no shame of conscience and proceeded to instruct me, in front of many other people, to 'f' off and mind my own 'f'ing business. She then continued her verbal outrage as she dragged the child away claiming that's what's 'f'ing wrong with this 'f'ing world people can't keep their 'f'ing big noses out of other peoples 'f'ing lives. 
A verbally articulate woman indeed and the only hope for the poor might, a care home or running away.

When all said and done hitting a child to any degree is nothing more than assault.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

The thing that always confuses me with the arguments for and against smacking (in particular pre-school kids) is this...


1 - objectors suggest that children under 5 are unable to understand what a smack means, or be able to associate that punishment with the "crime". They do not understand the consequenses of their behaviour and so do not understand smacking.

2 - those same objectors suggest using alternative methods which allows the child to sit and think about their behaviour and its consequenses. Such methods include naughty step, privilage removal, time out etc.

EH? ? ?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Tink82 said:


> and the reason is not lack of smacking, it is a failure on the parenyts part to provide the things you list first


But what about those kids who have the most loving family and have eveything they want and tbo have very privileged lifes??? many of them still go off the rails! - so what is the answer there?? - I do think our kids have to take responsibility too - not every bad kid has bad parents.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> But what about those kids who have the most loving family and have eveything they want and tbo have very privileged lifes??? many of them still go off the rails! - so what is the answer there?? - I do think our kids have to take responsibility too - not every bad kid has bad parents.


lack of boundreis... it's the opposite to the ones that don't care. The ones that are too worried to tell the kid what they can/cannot do!


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm against smacking. It depends on the child but I was very sensitive and the smacks I got have had really negative effects on me. It's consistancy that is missing and causing children to be "disrespectful" they don't know where the boundaries are, however they are enforced.

I would never want to use a cane in school, I keep order by staying positive, calm and authoritive and have never felt the need for a threat of a beating to be hanging over the class. Wait until I've been teaching a few more years though - I might change my tune :lol:


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Every Kid is different, my steps were old enough to be punished by say no TV, my own ones - well the number one is a handful so to stop him - slap- lectures do not work on tots putting fingers in sockets - yes u can kid-proof ur house but not others - my youngre ones - yes i count to three, but in case of a tantrum and histerics - that works well, but truly I am not to slap a dog...but if he snaps I will take him bythe scruff to his place...


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree that some children will 'go off the rails' but sometimes children who appear to 'have it all' really don't. 

I am amazed when friends have recounted their childhoods, I can't believe that despite their backgrounds they have grown up to be such level headed stable people - but alot don't.

I didn't have a great childhood but my OH's was awful, it makes me want to cry thinking about it. 

Despite constantly getting beatings it had the opposite effect on him, it turned him in to angry, & out of control child. Luckily for him he was taken out tof the 'care' of his mother & once he was shown love, understadning & given a bit of guidance he started to turn in to the fanatastic man he is today.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Tink82 said:


> lack of boundreis... it's the opposite to the ones that don't care. The ones that are too worried to tell the kid what they can/cannot do!


Yeah I agree about the boundaries that does often happen but with many there are boundaries and discipline in place - they still go off the rails - I do think a lot of it is about product of environment though but we cannot keep using this as an excuse for bad behaviour growing up I know some kids have terrible lives and feel desperately sorry for them but at what point do you stop pussy footing round them ?? My OH had a terrible upbringing - beaten etc and yes he has had many issues as an adult - he often used to say well its not my fault - look how I was bought up!! but I say this to him - at some point you have to deal with what happened, move forward and make yourself a better person - u cannot use the same crutch forever to excuse behaviour - and sometimes in our society that is what happens.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Tink82 said:


> what? give them the right to be fed/loved/housed in healthy conditions?
> 
> I'm bringing up my DD just fine, she does not need smacks...
> 
> ...


No they should have rights to all those things.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Zaros said:


> I've never had the need to physically assault any of my children and believe it teaches them that it's alright to hit others if those others get out of hand.
> Violence has a tendency to influence resentment and resentment more often than not cultivates revenge and retaliation.
> I was once witnessed a woman on a busy shopping street hitting a small child so hard that the child fell over and banged his head on the pavement. The child in question screamed so loud from the audible impact that it drew the attention of many other passers by. The mother, if that was what she claimed herself to be, demanded that the child get up and stop making a show of himself. When he refused and continued to scream she physically dragged him to his feet by the arm then threatened that if he didn't shut up she would give him something real to cry for.
> After she was confronted about her conduct she showed no shame of conscience and proceeded to instruct me, in front of many other people, to 'f' off and mind my own 'f'ing business. She then continued her verbal outrage as she dragged the child away claiming that's what's 'f'ing wrong with this 'f'ing world people can't keep their 'f'ing big noses out of other peoples 'f'ing lives.
> ...


I really dont think giving a child a smack on the legs is the same as assault, mine had a smack and they havnt grown up to be violent or fight in any way, so maybe you mean kids that are physically assaulted that turn out violent, it that case you could right.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Some on here are replacing smacking with beatings and assaults. We or i am are talking about a smack.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Yeah I agree about the boundaries that does often happen but with many there are boundaries and discipline in place - they still go off the rails - I do think a lot of it is about product of environment though but we cannot keep using this as an excuse for bad behaviour growing up I know some kids have terrible lives and feel desperately sorry for them but at what point do you stop pussy footing round them ?? My OH had a terrible upbringing - beaten etc and yes he has had many issues as an adult - he often used to say well its not my fault - look how I was bought up!! but I say this to him - at some point you have to deal with what happened, move forward and make yourself a better person - u cannot use the same crutch forever to excuse behaviour - and sometimes in our society that is what happens.


I agree on that, I hate nothing more than 'but I had a bad childhood'.. um, so did I but I'm not an alcoholic/user/shoplifter/prolific offender/child abuser etc etc...

I was one of four and we would be 'smacked' with a steel toe capped boot til we begged for forgiveness.. It has had no affect on my older bro or younger sister, however I have had councelling twice and had issues as a teenager with depression and my younger bro (took the most blows) was a self harmer for some years.. I have very little self-confidence thanks to this but I'd never use it as an excuse...

I think of it like a puppy, you train it in the early days to behave in a way you deem appropriate for a dog right? so why not a child? this ios where parents are going wrong, the 'training' is not happening...


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Tink82 said:


> I agree on that, I hate nothing more than 'but I had a bad childhood'.. um, so did I but I'm not an alcoholic/user/shoplifter/prolific offender/child abuser etc etc...
> 
> I was one of four and we would be 'smacked' with a steel toe capped boot til we begged for forgiveness.. It has had no affect on my older bro or younger sister, however I have had councelling twice and had issues as a teenager with depression and my younger bro (took the most blows) was a self harmer for some years.. I have very little self-confidence thanks to this but I'd never use it as an excuse...
> 
> I think of it like a puppy, you train it in the early days to behave in a way you deem appropriate for a dog right? so why not a child? this ios where parents are going wrong, the 'training' is not happening...


Yes that is true its about ongoing dicipline and structure etc - How awful what u had to go through imo what u suffered is not just a "smack" thats a beating with phsycological ramifications and is totally different to someone getting a smack on the legs after repeated warning - I think people need to be able to distinguish between beating and smacking.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes that is true its about ongoing dicipline and structure etc - How awful what u had to go through imo what u suffered is not just a "smack" thats a beating with phsycological ramifications and is totally different to someone getting a smack on the legs after repeated warning - I think people need to be able to distinguish between beating and smacking.


I was pretty well behaved but sometimes it wasn't enough, just having to sit and watch the others go through it was not good... there would be days when he was so mad for no reason, he wouldn't let us out the house but we couldn't sit and play either.. we would spend all day trying to avoid him... he is a different person now though, he and my mom have DD quite often and he never has laid a finger on her (wouldn't dare) I think that is why I get these confused feelings!!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Tink82 said:


> I was pretty well behaved but sometimes it wasn't enough, just having to sit and watch the others go through it was not good... there would be days when he was so mad for no reason, he wouldn't let us out the house but we couldn't sit and play either.. we would spend all day trying to avoid him... he is a different person now though, he and my mom have DD quite often and he never has laid a finger on her (wouldn't dare) I think that is why I get these confused feelings!!


Thats awfull ut it wasnt a smack leg every now and again and thats what people are confusing.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Tink82 said:


> I was pretty well behaved but sometimes it wasn't enough, just having to sit and watch the others go through it was not good... there would be days when he was so mad for no reason, he wouldn't let us out the house but we couldn't sit and play either.. we would spend all day trying to avoid him... he is a different person now though, he and my mom have DD quite often and he never has laid a finger on her (wouldn't dare) I think that is why I get these confused feelings!!


Wow  so horrible I can understand why you may have been confused -I know from my OH's experiences that he finds it very hard to find closure for what happened to him - he doesnt want to forgive - his mum stabbed him in the arm once because she caught him smoking when he was about 12 - and she has hit him over the head with ashtrays etc - was a very controlling person she was like this with her daughter too who has had problems with relationships etc it does all tie in with how you are as a child/adult - im not in any way disputing that and those that manage to go on and have a successful life without issue are so very courageous but there is a huge difference between discipline and abuse.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Wow  so horrible I can understand why you may have been confused -I know from my OH's experiences that he finds it very hard to find closure for what happened to him - he doesnt want to forgive - his mum stabbed him in the arm once because she caught him smoking when he was about 12 - and she has hit him over the head with ashtrays etc - was a very controlling person she was like this with her daughter too who has had problems with relationships etc it does all tie in with how you are as a child/adult - im not in any way disputing that and those that manage to go on and have a successful life without issue are so very courageous.


I do think your right in that it can affect a persons behaviour, My nan stabbed my dad when he was younger and I feel that is were a lot of his behaviour stems from, although not condoning it.. Since my DD was born and he has taken quite an active roll in her life, he has chilled out more


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Tink82 said:


> I do think your right in that it can affect a persons behaviour, My nan stabbed my dad when he was younger and I feel that is were a lot of his behaviour stems from, although not condoning it.. Since my DD was born and he has taken quite an active roll in her life, he has chilled out more


Yes It does especially if you dont tackle the situ ie dont talk about it - im glad your dad and you and your daugher have managed to work thru and still have a relationship  - I think maybe men find it more difficult and go really off the rails more than women in some cases.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Some on here are replacing smacking with beatings and assaults. We or i am are talking about a smack.


If my neighbour was deliberately tomenting one of my dogs and I had on several accounts requested him not to do what he was doing intentionally and he categorically refused to respect my wishes, then if I were to lose my patience with him and physically reprimand him (give him a slap or a smack) for his unwanted behaviour, then my action in itself would be considered an assault.
There's no difference.
Punishment by physical contact is assault.


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## vickie1985 (Feb 18, 2009)

North East Lincolnshire carries a "no smacking policy"

if i had birth children i wouldnt hit them, as there are more ways to get through to a child than a smack. Although i had smacks and it didnt do any harm untill i was about 5 and could remember them! lol


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Zaros said:


> If my neighbour was deliberately tomenting one of my dogs and I had on several accounts requested him not to do what he was doing intentionally and he categorically refused to respect my wishes, then if I were to lose my patience with him and physically reprimand him (give him a slap or a smack) for his unwanted behaviour, then my action in itself would be considered an assault.
> There's no difference.
> Punishment by physical contact is assault.


Be considered an assault yes doesnt nesessarily mean its an assault, smacking a childs legs is different from beating a child.


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## aleexa (Mar 18, 2010)

I would slap my children, but not smack....

http://owall.net/


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

aleexa said:


> I would slap my children, but not smack....


slap how??


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Well if nothing else this thread has given me a laugh.Slap does NOT = beating.I'm confused as to what is classed as a beating in some peoples minds.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Well if nothing else this thread has given me a laugh.Slap does NOT = beating.I'm confused as to what is classed as a beating in some peoples minds.*


I left it for a while, getting silly for 20 odd years ive been beating my kids and assaulting them.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> I left it for a while, getting silly for 20 odd years ive been beating my kids and assaulting them.


*lol me too,but i KNOW mine like yours know what respect is.I'm sick of hearing how hard done by some kids think they are.Sure i realise some are beaten and have sh*t lives and deserve all the help they can get.But trust me if i so wished i could say i was hard done by as a child.No mother at home to raise 9 of us,brothers and sisters fighting like hell,having to do chores most kids mothers would be around to do.I wouldn't change a thing about my childhood i look back with fond memories,but i can say it was far from a bed of roses.But then i don't dwell on the bad bits.*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol me too,but i KNOW mine like yours know what respect is.I'm sick of hearing how hard done by some kids think they are.Sure i realise some are beaten and have sh*t lives and deserve all the help they can get.But trust me if i so wished i could say i was hard done by as a child.No mother at home to raise 9 of us,brothers and sisters fighting like hell,having to do chores most kids mothers would be around to do.I wouldn't change a thing about my childhood i look back with fond memories,but i can say it was far from a bed of roses.But then i don't dwell on the bad bits.*


This is what I was saying earlier Jan - yes some people have had it very very bad etc but at some point life has to go on and u cannot use bad things as an excuse which a lot of our younger generations do


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> This is what I was saying earlier Jan - yes some people have had it very very bad etc but at some point life has to go on and u cannot use bad things as an excuse which a lot of our younger generations do


*Seriously suzy why do you think they do it? My belief is that they have been mollycoddled.Sure i could find fault with my childhood but where the hell would it get me? Some people honestly need to sort themselves out.God help us if they ever brought back national service.Truth be told,the only reason the have'nt is because the kids have human rights.lmao*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Seriously suzy why do you think they do it? My belief is that they have been mollycoddled.Sure i could find fault with my childhood but where the hell would it get me? Some people honestly need to sort themselves out.God help us if they ever brought back national service.Truth be told,the only reason the have'nt is because the kids have human rights.lmao*


Yep thats true in a lot of cases - they think they are hard done by and have had a shitty life when in reality compared to those who are genuinely abused and beaten its nothing - my dad sometimes says he wishes national service was bought back to sort the yobs out lol I guess in some ways I can see where he is coming from - when he was younger he was heavily disciplined but i think back then that was the norm - but kids seemed to have a lot more respect - doesnt make sense really cos now they are given leeway but act up so what do u do??:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> Yep thats true in a lot of cases - they think they are hard done by and have had a shitty life when in reality compared to those who are genuinely abused and beaten its nothing - my dad sometimes says he wishes national service was bought back to sort the yobs out lol I guess in some ways I can see where he is coming from - when he was younger he was heavily disciplined but i think back then that was the norm - but kids seemed to have a lot more respect - doesnt make sense really cos now they are given leeway but act up so what do u do??:


*The old saying " give an inch they take a mile" comes to mind suzy.I would hate National service to come back,but i'm all in favour of boot camps.:thumbup:*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

There just doesnt seem to be any give or take with youngsters today though, they want it all and mine at times are the same the eldest one is in the process of looking for a house with his girlfriend and what he sees as a priority  theyve got a shock coming, ive said get what you can now and then wait and get ? later and hes horrified that a 42inch dh tele is what i think should come later. This has to come from not really ever needing to wait for anything things are/have been too readily available for them.

The problem is they dont know what hardship is and i suppose neither do i, but we always were taught respect and manners and even though i never went short of anything a smack included i was never allowed to ask for anything when we was out that was a biggy with my mum.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> There just doesnt seem to be any give or take with youngsters today though, they want it all and mine at times are the same the eldest one is in the process of looking for a house with his girlfriend and what he sees as a priority  theyve got a shock coming, ive said get what you can now and then wait and get ? later and hes horrified that a 42inch dh tele is what i think should come later. This has to come from not really ever needing to wait for anything things are/have been too readily available for them.
> 
> The problem is they dont know what hardship is and i suppose neither do i, but we always were taught respect and manners and even though i never went short of anything a smack included i was never allowed to ask for anything when we was out that was a biggy with my mum.


*You realy don't know how good i feel knowing i'm not the only one that remembers "the good times".
The words,kids should be seen and not heard comes to mind.Although i hated them as a kid.*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *The old saying " give an inch they take a mile" comes to mind suzy.I would hate National service to come back,but i'm all in favour of boot camps.:thumbup:*


Oh yea deffo! me too! - I watch that one thats one the telly about American kids really good!:thumbup:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

My mum would have given us the world and her grandchildren well she still would but she couldnt stand children to ask for anything.Ile have to tell you about when my eldest was little my mum was taking him to see her elderly aunt she came to pick him up and i was seeing them off and i said be a good boy and dont forget your manners and my mum said yes and that means you dont ask for anything sweetheart doesnt it? ok they had been there about 10/15 mins when he piped up with "excuse me", mum was so proud then he spoilt himself and said "i dont suppose you have sweeties cos you havnt got children have you" omg mumsaid she nearly fell off the chair, her aunt thought it was sooo funny. Well he didnt ask really did he.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> My mum would have given us the world and her grandchildren well she still would but she couldnt stand children to ask for anything.Ile have to tell you about when my eldest was little my mum was taking him to see her elderly aunt she came to pick him up and i was seeing them off and i said be a good boy and dont forget your manners and my mum said yes and that means you dont ask for anything sweetheart doesnt it? ok they had been there about 10/15 mins when he piped up with "excuse me", mum was so proud then he spoilt himself and said "i dont suppose you have sweeties cos you havnt got children have you" omg mumsaid she nearly fell off the chair, her aunt thought it was sooo funny. Well he didnt ask really did he.


*:lol::lol: pmsl kids are'nt as stupid as some might think..*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *:lol::lol: pmsl kids are'nt as stupid as some might think..*


:lol::lol::lol: they certainly arnt he was only about 4 at the time. My mum still says it took all those years but he though of a way roung it, oh he was a bugger though.


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## Tink82 (Mar 22, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Well if nothing else this thread has given me a laugh.Slap does NOT = beating.I'm confused as to what is classed as a beating in some peoples minds.*


I think it depends where you slap as well though...


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Be considered an assault yes doesnt nesessarily mean its an assault, smacking a childs legs is different from beating a child.


I'm sorry but you may paint the idea of smacking, hitting or slapping a child any colour you wish to, unfortunately it will still have a bleak outook and will still constitute an assault.
Any child hit by an adult loses trust in that particular adult. The child may become more obedient ruled by the threat of physical tyranny but it does not mean it either trusts or respects that adult.

Corporal punishment is the moral of past generations handed down to a society that has not gained any better moral values through enlightenment.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Tink82 said:


> I think it depends where you slap as well though...


I agree i hate to see kids hit around the head


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Zaros said:


> I'm sorry but you may paint the idea of smacking, hitting or slapping a child any colour you wish to, unfortunately it will still have a bleak outook and will still constitute an assault.
> Any child hit by an adult loses trust in that particular adult. The child may become more obedient ruled by the threat of physical tyranny but it does not mean it either trusts or respects that adult.
> 
> Corporal punishment is the moral of past generations handed down to a society that has not gained any better moral values through enlightenment.


I dont wish to paint it any colour at all, my children got a smack leg now and again and it has no effect on them at all, there has been no trust lost at all, they have grown up to be law abiding young men that have respect for us as parents and any one else for that matter. They were never ever smacked as a first option.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Zaros said:


> I'm sorry but you may paint the idea of smacking, hitting or slapping a child any colour you wish to, unfortunately it will still have a bleak outook and will still constitute an assault.
> Any child hit by an adult loses trust in that particular adult. The child may become more obedient ruled by the threat of physical tyranny but it does not mean it either trusts or respects that adult.
> 
> Corporal punishment is the moral of past generations handed down to a society that has not gained any better moral values through enlightenment.


*Sorry it might by todays standards but not the way i was raised.As my mother wasn't around my oldest sister was like a mum to us,her favourite punishment was to use the copper stick.(if anyone knows what they were).I had the greatest respect for her so i'm not sure where you get your theory from.Oh just to add,if my brothers stepped out of line my father would use a belt on them.Kids today dont know hardship.*


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Oh, I'm sorry I seem to have wandered into the 1950's. Do excuse me, I shall return to the 21st centuary now.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Werehorse said:


> Oh, I'm sorry I seem to have wandered into the 1950's. Do excuse me, I shall return to the 21st centuary now.


*lmao some of us were 50's kids and i for one am damn proud of it.*


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## missyme (May 28, 2008)

i used to get the odd wallop from my mum but never my dad i dont think it did me any harm im just lucky with my kids in the sence that iv never had to smack them.
i was a 70s kid and i think it was pretty normal to smack back then


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

missyme said:


> i used to get the odd wallop from my mum but never my dad i dont think it did me any harm im just lucky with my kids in the sence that iv never had to smack them.
> *i was a 70s kid and i think it was pretty normal to smack back then*


Smack/beat was all ok then, kids had no rights & nobody gave a sh*t how they were treated - thnak god things have changed!


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Smack/beat was all ok then, kids had no rights & nobody gave a sh*t how they were treated - thnak god things have changed!


Don't talk so daft...


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

poohdog said:


> Don't talk so daft...


Eh? what's daft about that? you really think things were so great then? LOL, get real!!! :lol:


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## corrine3 (Feb 22, 2009)

I was smacked on the odd occasion, did me no harm, still love my mum and respect her. I think it's when it gets out of hand. An odd smack for out of order behaviour did me no harm. Can't comment on if i would smack as i don't have kids.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I think, for me, it boils down to that there are better ways to communicate with a child that it has done something wrong than by resorting to physical violence. And, like it or not, a smack (even if it is "just a tap") is physical violence.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Do you know what I have noticed a patteren things where more in line with respect from bc to about early 80s well do you think the new parents and lets face it in the last 15 years they have got alot younger because they are kids themselves have no understanding of what parenting is all about.. they are still having tantrums themselves when they are 15 so how can they guide the child with self disiplined smack, they scream and rant at their children and so the circle begins..

Did that make any sense at all LOL

in the olden days they had the rod and new how to use it, it didn't mean using it but the fear of it being used got the behaviour required.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> lets face it in the last 15 years they have got alot younger because they are kids themselves have no understanding of what parenting is all about..


Really? Have they? Because I thought the general trend was towards women having careers and having kids older, rather than in their early 20s. It would be interesting to see how the average age women are having their first child at has changed in the last 15 years. *hits google*

Honestly, the kids I've met really aren't as bad as people seem to think. Perhaps there is less *fear* of authority instilled in them but I haven't met many who have really disrespected me as a teacher (yet, again - give me a few years ). I would rather earn respect by being patient and fair than demand fear by having a cane in the cupboard.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> Do you know what I have noticed a patteren things where more in line with respect from bc to about early 80s well do you think the new parents and lets face it in the last 15 years they have got alot younger because they are kids themselves have no understanding of what parenting is all about.. they are still having tantrums themselves when they are 15 so how can they guide the child with self disiplined smack, they scream and rant at their children and so the circle begins..
> 
> Did that make any sense at all LOL
> 
> in the olden days they had the rod and new how to use it, it didn't mean using it but the fear of it being used got the behaviour required.


But they used the rod & kids still misbehaved so it didn't work either!

I always remember my nan telling me about her convent boarding school, it sounded like hell on earth. She was beaten black & blue by the nuns there but still rebelled to show them they couldn't break her - I couldn't believe what they did to her. She never forgot it, even when she was nearly 90 she used to get very angry about it.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


poohdog said:



Don't talk so daft...

Click to expand...

:thumbup: the youngsters of today eh?:lol:



piggybaker said:



Do you know what I have noticed a patteren things where more in line with respect from bc to about early 80s well do you think the new parents and lets face it in the last 15 years they have got alot younger because they are kids themselves have no understanding of what parenting is all about.. they are still having tantrums themselves when they are 15 so how can they guide the child with self disiplined smack, they scream and rant at their children and so the circle begins..

Did that make any sense at all LOL

in the olden days they had the rod and new how to use it, it didn't mean using it but the fear of it being used got the behaviour required.

Click to expand...

I had my 1st child 1 month before my 17th birthday and i was married.
*


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Yup, average age of women giving birth is going up... 29.4 years in 2009 (the highest on record)

National Statistics Online - Live births

Not the story sold by the media I grant you but that's what the stats say. Yes, teenage pregnancy is on the up but mothers in general are getting older.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Werehorse said:


> Really? Have they? Because I thought the general trend was towards women having careers and having kids older, rather than in their early 20s. It would be interesting to see how the average age women are having their first child at has changed in the last 15 years. *hits google*
> 
> Honestly, the kids I've met really aren't as bad as people seem to think. Perhaps there is less *fear* of authority instilled in them but I haven't met many who have really disrespected me as a teacher (yet, again - give me a few years ). I would rather earn respect by being patient and fair than demand fear by having a cane in the cupboard.


When the threads come up here "dear god mother in tescos today" they are normally talking about mothers who are in there mids 20s yelling at the top of their lungs at there 8 year old kids who have just told them to pee off or other such sillyness, whilst their 5 other sibblings look on giggling or those mothers who dangle their kids by one arm in the air thinking their kids are pinyartas are all in this age bracket, the older mother or women who has had there child later just don't behave in this mannor (well not in public lol)

please do not think i am labelling it is mearly an observation.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> :thumbup: the youngsters of today eh?:lol:
> 
> *


Sorry but as a child of the 70's who regularly had the sh*t beaten out of me as I had been 'naughty' I find that remark quite insensitive.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> But they used the rod & kids still misbehaved so it didn't work either!
> 
> I always remember my nan telling me about her convent boarding school, it sounded like hell on earth. She was beaten black & blue by the nuns there but still rebelled to show them they couldn't break her - I couldn't believe what they did to her. She never forgot it, even when she was nearly 90 she used to get very angry about it.


Things would have been very tough in her day how awfull to have to live like that, thats the extreme and i for one wouldnt want that sort of treatment for kids today, a lot of words and i dont mean you have been twisted by some and taken out of context, a smack on the legs does no harm the only people that have bad memories who have wrote on here today wernt from the odd smack on the leg.

We need to be honest with ourselves i think there are kids having kids out there and some make good mums ime sure, but wether they are kids from kids or not standards have slipped with many kids today.
We wouldnt have dared gone to school and shout and swear at the teachers, police, stand up and walk out of a class, they do now because there are no consequences to mean anything.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> Sorry but as a child of the 70's who regularly had the sh*t beaten out of me as I had been 'naughty' I find that remark quite insensitive.


oh chill cleo things get sensative on this subject but people are not diging personally, if we where all in a pub you would hear the expression in a voice and would laugh with them i am sure,, try not to be to sensative


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> Sorry but as a child of the 70's who regularly had the sh*t beaten out of me as I had been 'naughty' I find that remark quite insensitive.


This thread wasnt/isnt about anyone saying kids should be beaten, i for one would defend any child i saw being beaten.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> oh chill cleao things get sensative on this subject but people are not diging personally, if we where all in a pub you would here the expression in a voice and would laugh with them i am sure,, try not to be to sensative


I'm not being overly sensitive but it's always the 'things aren't what they used to be' comments that make me laugh (& mad!) - no things aren't what they used to be, thank god for that!!!

People suffer hardships in every single generation, no one has the monopoly on the 'poor me I had it hardest' - or we could give it a go, it could turn in to that Monty Python sketch!!!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Come on!! Let's do a woe is me!! I'll start! :lol:


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> I'm not being overly sensitive but it's always the 'things aren't what they used to be' comments that make me laugh (& mad!) - no things aren't what they used to be, thank god for that!!!
> 
> People suffer hardships in every single generation, no one has the monopoly on the 'poor me I had it hardest' - or we could give it a go, it could turn in to that Monty Python sketch!!!


I for one was only ever smacked once that i can recall and by god i deserved it I drew with felt tip up the stair wall LOL..... pretty much better than dads paint work,

I wasn't try to smooth over any comments you just seemed a little waspish to a thread that has laughed at comment that seem odd, keeps the thread light and chatty as I started it out to be.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Come on!! Let's do a woe is me!! I'll start! :lol:


Uh OH  whos got the wooden spoon out LOL


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I had the most easiest, best upbringing i think any child could have so ime not coming the poor me routine at all, but i dont know how old you are but i certainly wouldnt like to be just starting my family now, mine are 20 and 23 and i still for them what/who is out there. so to be bringing up young children now, well i dont envy anyone, its not playground scuffles anymore its knifes, its not knocking on doors and running away its damaging property and muggins old people, there are some good kids out there i know plenty but please dont anyone that have hardly lived themselves yet that things are no different now.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

But I think it seems to be confusion over discipline & physical punishment. Kids shotuing & swearing at teachers is wrong but then again it is also the teachers job not to allow this. I agree that certain practises in schools are not helping in allowing teachers to use their authority.

People on here have alos saifd that a smack/hit never did them any harm but you will also find alot of people who say it did do them harm.

If physical punishment is so effective then why was nobody just smacked the once?

No one on here admits to smacking their animals so I find it difficult to understand how people can justify hitting their kids. An earlier post said that their animals don't know the difference between right & wrong but the same could alos be applied to children. Maybe they didn't understand the consequences of their actions? When my dog (like tonight) chose to ignore me & run away from me when I called him did I hit him? of course I didn't.

I'm not saying all smack are child abuse but I still think there is a better way to discipline children & some parents do not understand a small smack & it can be more


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I had the most easiest, best upbringing i think any child could have so ime not coming the poor me routine at all, but i dont know how old you are but i certainly wouldnt like to be just starting my family now, mine are 20 and 23 and i still for them what/who is out there. so to be bringing up young children now, well i dont envy anyone, its not playground scuffles anymore its knifes, its not knocking on doors and running away its damaging property and muggins old people, there are some good kids out there i know plenty but please dont anyone that have hardly lived themselves yet that things are no different now.


Here here theres alot to look out for, for our little ones mine are 7 and 9 and its hard allowing them the space to learn,, guidence from a short distance,,

Now in my day things where so different:lol:


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> please do not think i am labelling it is mearly an observation.


But "lets face it, mothers are getting younger" is an incorrect observation and I'm just pointing that out.  And I'm affraid anecdotal evidence from a few members of an internet forum doesn't trounce actual government records. Mothers are getting older, fact.

Whether kids are getting "worse" or not is a matter of opinion, but you certainly can't blame young mothers if you think that they are because there are more kids about born to older mothers than ever before.

It doesn't matter what age you are anyway, there are better ways to instill good behaviour in a child than violent behaviour.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Werehorse said:


> But "lets face it, mothers are getting younger" is an incorrect observation and I'm just pointing that out.  And I'm affraid anecdotal evidence from a few members of an internet forum doesn't trounce actual government records. Mothers are getting older, fact.
> 
> Whether kids are getting "worse" or not is a matter of opinion, but you certainly can't blame young mothers if you think that they are because there are more kids about born to older mothers than ever before.
> 
> It doesn't matter what age you are anyway, there are better ways to instill good behaviour in a child than violent behaviour.


Ive never been violent in my life, you think so bacause my children got a smack when really needed it, well if thats what you call violent then lets agree to disagree.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> Uh OH  whos got the wooden spoon out LOL


:devil: :devil:


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Werehorse said:


> But "lets face it, mothers are getting younger" is an incorrect observation and I'm just pointing that out.  And I'm affraid anecdotal evidence from a few members of an internet forum doesn't trounce actual government records. Mothers are getting older, fact.
> 
> Whether kids are getting "worse" or not is a matter of opinion, but you certainly can't blame young mothers if you think that they are because there are more kids about born to older mothers than ever before.
> 
> It doesn't matter what age you are anyway, there are better ways to instill good behaviour in a child than violent behaviour.


(shh whispers quietly whilst peking in either direction... you must come and visit the estate behind me,, I tell you its kids bringing up babies)

Ok I put my hands up those goverment records must be right, and I had heard mothers where gaining a career first,, just visiual facts seem to dictate IMO but I am not going to split hairs if i am wrong then so be...


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> (shh whispers quietly whilst peking in either direction... you must come and visit the estate behind me,, I tell you its kids bringing up babies)
> 
> Ok I put my hands up those goverment records must be right, and I had heard mothers where gaining a career first,, just visiual facts seem to dictate IMO but I am not going to split hairs if i am wrong then so be...


Whilst it's a fact first time mums are older than they used to be it's also a fact if you go to err... certain areas that most mum's are the ones you describe


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Whilst it's a fact first time mums are older than they used to be it's also a fact if you go to err... certain areas that most mum's are the ones you describe


Thank you dear friend,, OMG we just agreed on something LOL break out the bubbly







:lol:


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

sequeena said:


> Whilst it's a fact first time mums are older than they used to be it's also a fact if you go to err... certain areas that most mum's are the ones you describe


But there has always been very young mums, girls were married earlier years ago or if they weren't they were shipped off somewhere else - out of sight so as not to embarrass their families.

Maybe to day there is more of an incentive to get pregnant especially if you have few prospects by all the benfits you are entitled to - but that a whole different hot potato!! :lol:


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I call striking someone else violent. Not necessarily malicious and in most cases I'd hope with the best of intentions but still violent. Semantics really.  I just don't agree with smacking as punishment, to me it feels wrong. I was smacked and it did me no good whatsoever so I do feel quite strongly about it. But I don't want to personally attack anyone, I'm just stating what I feel about it really - possibly clumsily.

I also feel strongly about getting facts straight.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Yes I know there have been young mum's for many many years, my mum was a young mum (had her first in 74)... not disputing that.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> But there has always been very young mums, girls were married earlier years ago or if they weren't they were shipped off somewhere else - out of sight so as not to embarrass their families.
> 
> Maybe to day there is more of an incentive to get pregnant especially if you have few prospects by all the benfits you are entitled to - but that a whole different hot potato!! :lol:


Basically if conditions are poor we are compelled to breed early and have many children - more chance of our genes being carried forward to sucessive generations. If conditions are favourable the urge to breed is reduced as life expectency is longer and infant mortality is lower so we can afford to take our time and put our eggs in less baskets.

In other words, socio-economic background plays a huge part in the age and amount of children you will have.


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## carebear (Jun 10, 2009)

my mum use to put a wooden spoon across my backside, it didn`t do me any harm. i would never have spoken to my mum the way my 8 year old speaks to me.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

carebear said:


> my mum use to put a wooden spoon across my backside, it didn`t do me any harm. i would never have spoken to my mum the way my 8 year old speaks to me.


Why do you let your 8yr old talk to you in such a way then?

Smacking is not the only form of discipline, it's just the easiest for alot of parents.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Werehorse said:


> Basically if conditions are poor we are compelled to breed early and have many children - more chance of our genes being carried forward to sucessive generations. If conditions are favourable the urge to breed is reduced as life expectency is longer and infant mortality is lower so we can afford to take our time and put our eggs in less baskets.
> 
> In other words, socio-economic background plays a huge part in the age and amount of children you will have.


If that is the case why is it on new housing estates within a couple of years kids will appear as if by magic.New home,new fridge,new family is the way I've always seen it...
You're theories may have been correct in the days of high infant mortality.But today with the nanny state and everything provided, kids appear because prospective mothers know they have no worries about feeding them.And in many cases because they've had too much to drink.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2010)

poohdog said:


> If that is the case why is it on new housing estates within a couple of years kids will appear as if by magic.New home,new fridge,new family is the way I've always seen it...
> You're theories may have been correct in the days of high infant mortality.But today with the nanny state and everything provided, kids appear because prospective mothers know they have no worries about feeding them.And in many cases because they've had too much to drink.


Add to that the handouts they get from the government!! and hey presto! T'is an occupation to some!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I'm in my 50's and I was only ever slapped twice by my mom. Now on saying that I do know I had my hand tapped (I would call it). As in when I reached for the stove. Mom said No hot, go for it again no hot, tap on hand. That little slap or tap on the hand was much less painful than the scald of a hot plate on the stove. Now the slaps I remember the first so well I was 9 and my mom was painting the house I asked for some money to go to the store she asked me to wait a minute I said okay. So far so good but she had bought me a watch with a second hand for my birthday I ever so patiently watched the second hand go around and said minutes up where's my money. Well I got a slap across the legs and no money. I find it very amusing now and totally understand my moms frustration... The other time she slapped me across the face I can't remember exactly why but I'm thinking I probably said something very very wrong cause my mom was very good at letting us express ourselves.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Add to that the handouts they get from the government!! and hey presto! T'is an occupation to some!


Sadly thats it DT :frown: We get it over here on this diddy little Island.

I was 19 when i gave birth to my daughter, (exactly 2 months before my 20th) so i could be looked 'down upon' at that time.

What those judgemental strangers didn't know, is that i worked up to my due date. Me and her Dad had been together for years. He worked all his life and obviously supported us while i was off work.

Sadly it didn't work out in the long term and we split more recently, but great friends now. But still both of us work as we have always been bought up to.

It can be bloody hard for us, i HATE having anytime away from her. But working not only provids us with hard earned money, but a sense of independence and proudness! Its also about setting her an example just like our parents did for us.

So it does annoy me when i see some people turn their noses up at youngish mothers. I have my now 4 year old, i have a house that we both cherish, i work, i provide my daughter with a stable, happy home. She is highly intelligent and an extremely polite, well behaved little girl.

So the old saying still goes: ''Don't judge a book by its cover'' Not every ''teen mum'' is the same (i HATE that term though)

P.S For the sake of the thread, although i have posted already, i DO NOT smack, i rarely shout either. I was never ever smacked by my Dad and i truly believe it does absolutely no good to anyone.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

poohdog said:


> If that is the case why is it on new housing estates within a couple of years kids will appear as if by magic.New home,new fridge,new family is the way I've always seen it...
> You're theories may have been correct in the days of high infant mortality.But today with the nanny state and everything provided, kids appear because prospective mothers know they have no worries about feeding them.And in many cases because they've had too much to drink.


I beg to differ. I'm actually quoting recent research from an article I read in New Scientist, not just theorising off my own back. Life expectancy IS shorter for those from lower socio-economic backgrounds, life is not as clear cut and certain as it for those in "higher" socio-economic brackets and thus the urge to breed early is stronger.

And if everything seems uncertain and having kids early means a better quality of life as well, then why wouldn't you do it? Sounds like a good survival tactic to me.

I'm confused by this thread.

Kids are "getting worse" and smacking is the way to solve it and instill some "respect for authority" etc. But at the same time the problem lies with teenage mothers who smack their kids in Tesco who are practically taking over the world. When in reality most kids come from homes where the mothers are older than they were a few decades ago so if kids are really getting worse than it must be older mothers who are the problem.

Perhaps older mothers aren't smacking their kids in Tesco enough. 

Perhaps teachers should teach lessons in Tesco, or better yet - Iceland, and hang any little darling who fails to respect authority. World's problems solved in a nutshell.
:lol:


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I dont wish to paint it any colour at all, my children got a smack leg now and again and it has no effect on them at all, there has been no trust lost at all, they have grown up to be law abiding young men that have respect for us as parents and any one else for that matter. They were never ever smacked as a first option.





JANICE199 said:


> *Sorry it might by todays standards but not the way i was raised.As my mother wasn't around my oldest sister was like a mum to us,her favourite punishment was to use the copper stick.(if anyone knows what they were).I had the greatest respect for her so i'm not sure where you get your theory from.Oh just to add,if my brothers stepped out of line my father would use a belt on them.Kids today dont know hardship.*


Giving a child a hiding for bad behaviour is an old victorian value and has no place in todays society (What a legacy to hand on to our children)
As I have already stated in my previous post, I have never had the need to physically assault any of my children.

There's no excuse for striking a child and if you have to resort to a physical assault then that action in itself is inexcusable.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> Sadly thats it DT :frown: We get it over here on this diddy little Island.
> 
> I was 19 when i gave birth to my daughter, (exactly 2 months before my 20th) so i could be looked 'down upon' at that time.
> 
> ...


I wasn't going to come back to this thread but feel I need to answer you especially out of respect,, you sound like someone who is special and has got the drive not to be one of those young mothers who give so many of yourself a bad reputation.

you are also right in not to judge a book by its cover,, but I have also fallen into this bad habbit af judging all the same and regularly turn my nose up at anyone who decides to take there child out and belittle them in public..

I am sorry if any of my comments made you feel you had to defend yourself,, I am an old bag before my time:lol:


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## missyme (May 28, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> Smack/beat was all ok then, kids had no rights & nobody gave a sh*t how they were treated - thnak god things have changed!


i meant a smack i was never beaten i was given a smack accross my backside but only when i had pushed and pushed my mum if you were to count up the smacks it was probably only about 4 times in my childhood and she never used anything other than her hand to smack us with


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> I'm not being overly sensitive but it's always the 'things aren't what they used to be' comments that make me laugh (& mad!) - no things aren't what they used to be, thank god for that!!!
> 
> People suffer hardships in every single generation, no one has the monopoly on the 'poor me I had it hardest' - or we could give it a go, it could turn in to that Monty Python sketch!!!


*Did you actualy live through the 50's? If you didn't why would you assume they were bad? And i for one have not said "poor me i had it the hardest",quite the opposite in fact.
*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Did you actualy live through the 50's? If you didn't why would you assume they were bad? And i for one have not said "poor me i had it the hardest",quite the opposite in fact.
> *


I didn't live through the 50's & am not assuming they were bad but they certainly weren't 'the good old days' for alot of people. I think sometime people look back with nostalgia rather than remembering the realities.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> I didn't live through the 50's & am not assuming they were bad but they certainly weren't 'the good old days' for alot of people. I think sometime people look back with nostalgia rather than remembering the realities.


*Its not a case of not remembering the realities,i have a very good memory(the good with the bad).The fact is,you can't change the past so there's no point moaning about it.*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Its not a case of not remembering the realities,i have a very good memory(the good with the bad).The fact is,you can't change the past so there's no point moaning about it.*


I agree but looking at the past can help change the future!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Zaros said:


> Giving a child a hiding for bad behaviour is an old victorian value and has no place in todays society (What a legacy to hand on to our children)
> As I have already stated in my previous post, I have never had the need to physically assault any of my children.
> 
> There's no excuse for striking a child and if you have to resort to a physical assault then that action in itself is inexcusable.


STRIKING AND HIDING a child, PHYSICAL assault, behave, your twisting words now. A SMACK is what we are talking about, leave it out.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

missyme said:


> i meant a smack i was never beaten i was given a smack accross my backside but only when i had pushed and pushed my mum if you were to count up the smacks it was probably only about 4 times in my childhood and she never used anything other than her hand to smack us with


Exactly what i was meaning, got out of hand i think, twisted words.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

'Scuse the long post...

We had the strap and cane when I was at school.Got the strap three times.as I recall for being cheeky, and answering back.The cane was restricted to the Headmaster and his Deputy.It was used rarely for serious infringements.

A lad was caned at the front of our class by the Deputy for bullying..in later years he became a copper and was eventually dismissed for having sex with prostitutes in exchange for turning a blind eye...so no change in character there then?

It was an all boys school.We didn't fear the teachers...but by God we respected them.And of course we knew corporal punishment was there if we went over the top.

When the whistle blew 600 boys froze to the spot in the playground.One teacher in particular was extremely strict,and while the boys remained still he would walk round and woe betide any boy that was standing by a sweet wrapper on the ground...they would get detention for not having picked it up.

The whistle blew again and 600 boys would head for their next lesson where they would line up outside the classroom and await the teacher.When he arrived the queue would stand silent until told to enter.They would sit when told to and face the front...(46 in my class) with my master we were allowed to rest the arms on the desk...but only just on,not sprawled across it.
Kids whispering or looking out the windows were verbally warned and usually behaved.

Most of the teachers had served in the forces during the war and automatically passed on the rigid discipline they had learned to us.Boys that bucked the system were soon sorted out,and learned quickly how to behave.

Just a couple more points..this is a picture of the quadrangle in the school where running was banned, as was walking on the grass...and in 4 years I NEVER saw a single kid walk on it.









There was no litter,very little bullying,and most of us *learned* which is why my generation can read and write a damned sight better than kids today.

There were about 150 bikes in the bike shed,none were chained up and I never recall any being stolen.

That was the fifties...And like it or not, the country would be a better place if kids were taught by the same principles.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

poohdog said:


> 'Scuse the long post...
> 
> We had the strap and cane when I was at school.Got the strap three times.as I recall for being cheeky, and answering back.The cane was restricted to the Headmaster and his Deputy.It was used rarely for serious infringements.
> 
> ...


haha your post sounds like the school i went to.We had boys in one half and *girls in the other,but woe betide you if you spoke to a member of the other school.Oh and blackboard rubbers being thrown at you for not paying attention.:lol::lol:*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

poohdog said:


> 'Scuse the long post...
> 
> We had the strap and cane when I was at school.Got the strap three times.as I recall for being cheeky, and answering back.The cane was restricted to the Headmaster and his Deputy.It was used rarely for serious infringements.
> 
> ...


LOL, yeah cause it would!!! I'd be more than happy for my niece or nephew to be beaten for minor incidents - do 'em the world of good!!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> LOL, yeah cause it would!!! I'd be more than happy for my niece or nephew to be beaten for minor incidents - do 'em the world of good!!


I can understand you saying that, but i really dont know what the answer is to the increasing disrespect for adults in schools.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Can anyone use a dictionary on here? If so look up smack,then look up beaten.They are NOT the same.*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think people are still taking out of context the difference between a smack and a beating - and thats what the kids hear and they play on it !! hence why schools no longer have any powers and even parents dont - the control seems to be all in favour of the kids doing what they want without consequence - my question to those who dont believe in smacking is this - what is the solution then?? cos by doing the softly softly approach its not really working and kids dont think anymore of you!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Corporol punishment as was mentioned in an above post was usually a cane.....are you really saying this was not a beating?

If you smack an adult you could be done for assault so how come it's different for kids? where is the line crossed whan a smack becomes a beating?


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2010)

Our school was pretty much the same Poohdog If you dared to speak to classmates in maths you'd better have a hard head! ! because there was a good chance that the blackboard rubber (and it did hurt) would hit it's target before your brain registered the need to duck!

No one was EVER expelled nor excluded from school nor lessons, The detention class was normally unoccupied! Moving from one lesson to another you had to walk on the correct side of the corridor, Batman (Deputy head walked down the middle) .

There was NO vandelism nor theft! There would be the odd scrap but it if were a fair one they were left pretty much to sort it out themselves!

Physical education was daily! You HAD a shower (with the exception of the girls who were excluded during their periods) no matter and teacher stood watching to make sure you did . Swimming was in an open pool in the morning!! the water was freezing! Guess we just hardened to it!!

But I'll tell you this! My mother used to say to me don't wish away your time - your school years are the best years of your life! I can now confirm there was a lot of truth in that!


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Corporol punishment as was mentioned in an above post was usually a cane.....are you really saying this was not a beating?
> 
> If you smack an adult you could be done for assault so how come it's different for kids? where is the line crossed whan a smack becomes a beating?


And that contibutes to fact that we are NO longer allowed to protect neither our property nor our belongings! And to claify! IF anyone came onto my property with mischief in mind I would whether it be an adult or a child have no hesitation whatsoever in giving em a wack!


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Corporol punishment as was mentioned in an above post was usually a cane.....are you really saying this was not a beating?
> 
> If you smack an adult you could be done for assault so how come it's different for kids? where is the line crossed whan a smack becomes a beating?


That might have been true in the Public Schools...but in our school it was not a beating,it was a maximum of three sharp strokes on the palm and rarely used.
The strap...on the hand...was more common.It stung for 5 minutes and that was it. None of this 'Tom Brown Schooldays' stuff....there's a big difference.

I remember one boy being expelled in 4 years...Kenny S*****r, a teddy boy type who swaggered about as if he owned the place.A teacher grabbed him by the scruff of the neck for fighting and he retaliated with a punch to the teachers jaw.
Six hundred lads...four years...One expelled.How many schools can match that today? You were kept in your place with strict discipline,unheard of today where the teachers can't touch the little darlings.

Don't get me wrong...there was bad behaviour as there always has been.But nothing like the chaos in most schools today (Not all) we used to sneak into the outside lavs for a *** if we could get away with it,but at least there were no drugs and kids boozing on the parks.
In the nineties I lived next door to a school where the windows were boarded over because they were repeatedly being smashed.I heard stones on my roof and went to investigate...in the playground were two opposing groups who had ripped the boarding off the windows to use as shields, and were having a stone throwing fight...this was 'playtime' and a teacher STOOD WATCHING.
I phoned the police who came round to sort it out....Absolutely ridiculous.

All governments are responsible for allowing this disgusting state of affairs over the last 40 years...and like binge drinking (Thanks a lot Blair) they don't know what to do about it ...the damage has been done and there is no way back.
Sorry to go a bit off topic but discipline and smacking are closely related.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> STRIKING AND HIDING a child, PHYSICAL assault, behave, your twisting words now. A SMACK is what we are talking about, leave it out.


I think you should take a look at what constitutes an assault in the eyes of the law these days.
If you refuse to see a physical reprimand as an assault then perhaps we'll just call it bullying. Bullying a child into doing what we want it to do or what we don't want it to do. 
Do you hit/smack/slap your dog/s by any chance?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> If you smack an adult you could be done for assault so how come it's different for kids? where is the line crossed whan a smack becomes a beating?


That's absolutely true. After repaying just one smack to a drunken neighbour who had pushed my 9 year old son off his bike for wearing a Manchester united football shirt I was fined very heavily for my indiscretion whereas he was bound over to keep the peace.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2010)

Zaros said:


> I think you should take a look at what constitutes an assault in the eyes of the law these days.
> If you refuse to see a physical reprimand as an assault then perhaps we'll just call it bullying. Bullying a child into doing what we want it to do or what we don't want it to do.
> *Do you hit/smack/slap your dog/s by any chance?*


i dont think this is a fair comparison. There is a world off difference between a child that knows right from wrong, that makes conscious decisions to misbehave than a dog. A creature that often acts instinctively, that doesnt speak english and has a short memory in terms of learning. 
A child can understand what they are being punished for after the event. A dog will not. A child speaks the language and comprehends right from wrong, a dog cannot.
When I was a kid, when i done something I KNEW full well was wrong, I expected to get a smack for it. Not a beating, just a smack. It was never unexpected! I dont believe dogs make decisions to misbehave, its normally that they dont understand what is expected; or they are acting instinctively (a dog not recalling as they have a scent isnt purposely disobeying, its focussed on what its instict is telling it to do...work needs to be done on distracting that focus!)

edit: here I refer to the "child" as a child that does know right from wrong...a toddler doesnt understand what is expected like a 13yo does!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Savahl said:


> i dont think this is a fair comparison. There is a world off difference between a child that knows right from wrong, that makes conscious decisions to misbehave than a dog. A creature that often acts instinctively, that doesnt speak english and has a short memory in terms of learning.
> A child can understand what they are being punished for after the event. A dog will not. A child speaks the language and comprehends right from wrong, a dog cannot.
> When I was a kid, when i done something I KNEW full well was wrong, I expected to get a smack for it. Not a beating, just a smack. It was never unexpected! I dont believe dogs make decisions to misbehave, its normally that they dont understand what is expected; or they are acting instinctively (a dog not recalling as they have a scent isnt purposely disobeying, its focussed on what its instict is telling it to do...work needs to be done on distracting that focus!)
> 
> edit: here I refer to the "child" as a child that does know right from wrong...a toddler doesnt understand what is expected like a 13yo does!


Good Post!!:thumbup:


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Very occasionally I slapped my 3 boys when they were little. It was usually in frustration and the heat of the moment. It`s something you do out of desperation tbh. 
Now I have worked with kids for many years, I have better ways.  
The best way to discipline children is the `time out` method I find. Even a few minutes exclusion works really well.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Savahl said:


> i dont think this is a fair comparison. There is a world off difference between a child that knows right from wrong, that makes conscious decisions to misbehave than a dog. A creature that often acts instinctively, that doesnt speak english and has a short memory in terms of learning.
> A child can understand what they are being punished for after the event. A dog will not. A child speaks the language and comprehends right from wrong, a dog cannot.
> When I was a kid, when i done something I KNEW full well was wrong, I expected to get a smack for it. Not a beating, just a smack. It was never unexpected! I dont believe dogs make decisions to misbehave, its normally that they dont understand what is expected; or they are acting instinctively (a dog not recalling as they have a scent isnt purposely disobeying, its focussed on what its instict is telling it to do...work needs to be done on distracting that focus!)
> 
> edit: here I refer to the "child" as a child that does know right from wrong...a toddler doesnt understand what is expected like a 13yo does!


Exactly, rep for you for replying, youve done it for me i couldnt be bothered.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Savahl said:


> When I was a kid, when i done something I KNEW full well was wrong, I expected to get a smack for it. Not a beating, just a smack. It was never unexpected!


S if you knew you were going to get a smack but still still did it how can physical punishment be a deterrent for bad behaviour??? 

If smacking is so effective why does it have to be done more than once?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> S if you knew you were going to get a smack but still still did it how can physical punishment be a deterrent for bad behaviour???
> 
> If smacking is so effective why does it have to be done more than once?


But the same could be said for the naughty step - how many times does a child have to do something wrong and be put on that naughty step?? before they start to behave?? at the end of the day kids are going to test the boundaries . I think also its about following through and lots of parents that use the naughty step do not always follow through hence the kids have u running in circles - also its emotional blackmail too cos some parents use the naughty step for silly things too.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I can honestly say when mine had a smack leg there could be ears for the whole of 2 mins most of the time it was just the shock of oh no she really means it now and the tears i know were mostly because when it came to the smack they knew that was the end and they cried more for what they couldnt do or have.

Ive seen the naughty step used and the kids sit absolutely distraught all alone on a step or screaming throwing themselves around thats not nice either, when we are talking beatings, assault as some like to call it we are talking about something very different and if ide have thought for 1 minute me children would have been so distraught by a smack they were crying in distress than i wouldnt have done it.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> S if you knew you were going to get a smack but still still did it how can physical punishment be a deterrent for bad behaviour???
> 
> If smacking is so effective why does it have to be done more than once?


I was smacked minimal times. I can count it on one hand. And half the time if my mates were up to no good, i bowed out cos I knew what would happen if my mum found out lol.

It was a deterrant!

And it was never even hard. Didnt hurt, maybe stung a little. But the shock factor was always the hitting point


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Zaros said:


> I think you should take a look at what constitutes an assault in the eyes of the law these days.
> If you refuse to see a physical reprimand as an assault then perhaps we'll just call it bullying. Bullying a child into doing what we want it to do or what we don't want it to do.
> Do you hit/smack/slap your dog/s by any chance?


you my dear are rather interesting, I hate to ask this question but do you have children???? how do you view people who do? do you have friends who have children, this by no means a put down, its just you seem very above it all children do not come with instruction manuals and are at time extremly strong willed I prefered to give a small smack to drive the point home if my child tried to run in the road, the alternative was to scrape my child off the front of a car with a spade?

And yes I would smack a dog with the same control as i did the children.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> you my dear are rather interesting, I hate to ask this question but do you have children???? how do you view people who do? do you have friends who have children, this by no means a put down, its just you seem very above it all children do not come with instruction manuals and are at time extremly strong willed I prefered to give a small smack to drive the point home if my child tried to run in the road, the alternative was to scrape my child off the front of a car with a spade?
> 
> *And yes I would smack a dog with the same control as i did the children*.


LOL, there are people on here who would lynch you for that comment!! But strangely not for smacking your children.

I don't know why you seem to find it strange that some parents don't hit their kids - as i said several posts ago my sister has never & would never. I have plenty of frinds who don't use physical punishment but that doesn't mean their kids run riot.

I find it strange that so many people seem to think a lack of physical punishment equates with no discipline.

If you think it is acceptable to hit your kids at what age do you think it becomes unacceptable? How would you react if you tried to hit an older child & they hit you back?


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

> I find it strange that so many people seem to think a lack of physical punishment equates with no discipline.


That's been my view since I changed to my anti-smacking stance some years back.

Not smacking does NOT mean no discipline, punishment, consequences, rules, boundaries etc. It does NOT mean allowing bad behaviour. And it is certainly NOT a straight choice between smacknig or letting the kid get run over! How ridiculous!

Seriously, there must be a thousand ways to teach kids right frmo wrong, and physical violence (smacking) is just one of those. To suggest that not smacking somehow automatically results in "bad" kids, or that smacking is necessary for "good" kids is just untrue - and I'm sure most of us know examples of this - lovely kids from non-smacking homes, and nasty little brats from smacking homes.

Violence and discipline is not the same thing.

And I'm sorry, I still can't get over the hypocrisy - particularly knowing that children learn a vast amount frmo watching and copying other people (particularly their parents).

You tell your child not to hit you. You tell your child not to hit his / her siblings. You tell your child not to hit anyone. You tell them "violence doesn't solve anything". You tell them that lashing out when frustrated is inappropriate behaviour.

And yet when that child does something wrong what do you do? HIT them! The one thing you have spent so much time trying to teach them is wrong.

So what do they learn?

That actually, in some cases it IS ok to lash out in temper. It IS acceptable to hit people who pi$$ you off. That actually, violence does get you what you want....

Sorry, it just seems like a high risk strategy when there are so many alternatives available.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> LOL, there are people on here who would lynch you for that comment!! But strangely not for smacking your children.
> 
> I don't know why you seem to find it strange that some parents don't hit their kids - as i said several posts ago my sister has never & would never. I have plenty of frinds who don't use physical punishment but that doesn't mean their kids run riot.
> 
> ...


*The time will never come when if i thought it was right that i wouldn't still slap my kids.Even though they are now adults.If a child raises a hand to their parents their is no respect.imo*


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *The time will never come when if i thought it was right that i wouldn't still slap my kids.Even though they are now adults.If a child raises a hand to their parents their is no respect.imo*


Couldn't agree more Janice!


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## chopper (Aug 13, 2010)

Yes i did and still will smack my kids only problem now is they would probably roll me in a ball and stick me in a bin . but seriously i think smacking your kids is right not beating i coped enough smacks as a kid and are better for it some kids have no problem treating people like crap because they know nothing u do can stop them one good smack would solve it thats my opinion


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

chopper said:


> Yes i did and still will smack my kids only problem now is they would probably roll me in a ball and stick me in a bin . but seriously i think smacking your kids is right not beating i coped enough smacks as a kid and are better for it some kids have no problem treating people like crap because they know nothing u do can stop them one good smack would solve it thats my opinion


yeah agree mate, there is no consequences now and more rebellion.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2010)

Right!!
My two penneth!! again!
This is a question for those who believe smacking to be wrong!
If ANY form of violence is wrong then why are some children as young as ten years old acting so violently towards each other then! SOME are even armed!


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Right!!
> My two penneth!! again!
> This is a question for those who believe smacking to be wrong!
> If ANY form of violence is wrong then why are some children as young as ten years old acting so violently towards each other then! SOME are even armed!


computer games !!!! does anyone rember that program where they tried children out on violent games and non violent games then sat in the rooms and spoke to them when they had finished, those children that had played the violent games where non complient and had a lack on comunication..

And I don't smack my children any more, as I said before there is more than one way to skin a cat,, they now know what my expectations of them are but they step that mark and i will deliever a reminder not hard mind,,


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Zaros said:


> I think you should take a look at what constitutes an assault in the eyes of the law these days.
> If you refuse to see a physical reprimand as an assault then perhaps we'll just call it bullying. Bullying a child into doing what we want it to do or what we don't want it to do.
> Do you hit/smack/slap your dog/s by any chance?


And a smack is a whole world away from what the law deems as physical assault.... A short sharp smack that leaves no mark can be acceptable in the eyes of the law, marking a child and using objects is assault... This is where law gets complicated see, as it can depend on many factors as to whether it's classed as assault. The age and circumstances and the reasons as to why the child was smacked in the first place. Been a while since i've read the childrens act, but something i'm familiar with working with children 

For reference look under section Section 58, reasonable punishment of the Childrens act 2004 

It refers to to things like 'assault' 'battery' 'ABH' the law doesn't see that smacking fits into any of those categorys... Bullying isn't a one off thing, to bullying fits into the 'abuse' category, to bully a child it would mean that child is being abused systematically, over a period of time, causing emotional and physical abuse, to bully someone would have them fear you...It doesn't compare

*EDIT* Found this useful document, deciphers the children act and the law nicely

Childrens Legal Centre


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

MissShelley said:


> And a smack is a whole world away from what the law deems as physical assault.... A short sharp smack that leaves no mark can be acceptable in the eyes of the law, marking a child and using objects is assault... This is where law gets complicated see, as it can depend on many factors as to whether it's classed as assault. The age and circumstances and the reasons as to why the child was smacked in the first place. Been a while since i've read the childrens act, but something i'm familiar with working with children
> 
> For reference look under section Section 58, reasonable punishment of the Childrens act 2004
> 
> It refers to to things like 'assault' 'battery' 'ABH' the law doesn't see that smacking fits into any of those categorys... Bullying isn't a one off thing, to bullying fits into the 'abuse' category, to bully a child it would mean that child is being abused systematically, over a period of time, causing emotional and physical abuse, to bully someone would have them fear you...It doesn't compare


Tooshay love it...:lol: knowledge on knowledge battle


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## chopper (Aug 13, 2010)

if some think that a smack is putting violent behavier into kids heads what does tv video games and the internet do it comes back to what respect you should get in your own home and from your own children. A smack does not mean a beating most parents have there own way with there kids a smack works until it doesnt


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> Tooshay love it...:lol: knowledge on knowledge battle




It's stuff like this I have to know... Had to get rid of the big stick at work!  now I use a safe rubber pokey thing that leaves no mark see 

[/disclaimer]MissShelley reserves the right to be bollocked for aformentioned comment, it was an actually in matter of factly truly truly a joke [disclaimer]


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

MissShelley said:


> It's stuff like this I have to know... Had to get rid of the big stick at work!  now I use a safe rubber pokey thing that leaves no mark see
> 
> [/disclaimer]MissShelley reserves the right to be bollocked for aformentioned comment, it was an actually in matter of factly truly truly a joke [disclaimer]


PMSL what are you like.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

I used to threaten my kids with a riding crop, one of those swishy dressage whips. I don't think they ever thought I'd actually use it, until one day they tried my patience to the absolute limit & I did use it, round the backs of their legs. After that it disappeared, but I never needed to use it again.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2010)

Valanita said:


> I used to threaten my kids with a riding crop, one of those swishy dressage whips. I don't think they ever thought I'd actually use it, until one day they tried my patience to the absolute limit & I did use it, round the backs of their legs. After that it disappeared, but I never needed to use it again.


Our next door neighbour (when I was a child) used to use the fish slicer on her children - there were six of em! have to say I did feel sorry for them kids! And all bar one they all turned out fine.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Our next door neighbour (when I was a child) used to use the fish slicer on her children - there were six of em! have to say I did feel sorry for them kids! And all bar one they all turned out fine.


Mine turned out fine too & we are the best of friends.
I don't think smacking is a bad thing, it tells the child it's behaviour won't be tolerated.
Seeing the way a lot of even very young children behave now, who have probably never been smacked in their lives, makes me wonder, they get no discipline either at school because teachers aren't allowed to do it any more. We respected our teachers because our parents had taught us to.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Fish slicers?....Riding Crops?...Oh boy I'm keeping away from this thread now


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> you my dear are rather interesting, I hate to ask this question but do you have children?
> 
> And yes I would smack a dog with the same control as i did the children.


In answer to your question, yes I do have children. 3. Two sons and a daughter. They're 18, 22 and 24. The daughter being my first born. As I have stated in my original post I have never once had the need to raise a hand to any of them in temper or frustration. I find the act of physically punishing a child repugnant and quite unecessary. To be perfectly honest every time I see someone slap, smack or hit their offspring it makes me seethe inside with anger. 
Just because our parents/guardians may have applied that same old world regime to us when we were little it doesn't make it right nor give us an excuse to inflict that upon our own children when our patience has run short thereby teaching them it's alright and fair to hand it on to theirs.
Furthermore, I understand that people are naturally bound to defend themselves and their controversial actions regarding this issue because, in all probability, they're not honest enough to condemn or criticise the actions of their parents. 
Inflammatory that may seem but let's be brutally honest who, as a child, can remember not despising or resenting a parent for handing out physical punishment?

Nevertheless, it appears evident that there are those who appear to have more tolerance and understanding of dogs than they do their own children (excluding your good self because, as quoted, you imply that you would 'smack' a dog just as you would a child.) 
Perhaps to teach yourself a little more tolerance regarding errant animals you should purchase a Sarplaninac. Should you ever dare to smack this dog your kids will never have to worry about you smacking them or anyone else ever again


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Zaros said:


> In answer to your question, yes I do have children. 3. Two sons and a daughter. They're 18, 22 and 24. The daughter being my first born. As I have stated in my original post I have never once had the need to raise a hand to any of them in temper or frustration. I find the act of physically punishing a child repugnant and quite unecessary. To be perfectly honest every time I see someone slap, smack or hit their offspring it makes me seethe inside with anger.
> Just because our parents/guardians may have applied that same old world regime to us when we were little it doesn't make it right nor give us an excuse to inflict that upon our own children when our patience has run short thereby teaching them it's alright and fair to hand it on to theirs.
> Furthermore, I understand that people are naturally bound to defend themselves and their controversial actions regarding this issue because, in all probability, they're not honest enough to condemn or criticise the actions of their parents.
> Inflammatory that may seem but let's be brutally honest who, as a child, can remember not despising or resenting a parent for handing out physical punishment?
> ...


I completely agree. I hate seeing children being smacked :frown: i have never ever raised a hand or threatened to towards my daughter. I barely even shout (yet! LOL!!!) My 4 year old is extremely polite and well behaved without the need for all that.

And yes while our grandparents might have smacked (again mine did not), as a world/society etc we live and learn. We shape and we educate.

Just because they did does not mean its ok for us to.

I have always belived that smacking is simply a parent being so frustrated with a child that they resort to violence. Which we all know is not acceptable.


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## thedeans (Apr 8, 2009)

its not just the childrens act that protects children - the un convention on the rights of the child - article 19 - states that a child has a right to be kept safe from harm -this includes physical harm

in my opinion NO ONE has the right to hurt anyone else - what to you as a full grown adult is a little smack - to a small child is much more - you are not "correcting" behaviour, you are just instilling fear


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

How come I'm not a shaking wreck then?...I grew up ok...not a violent phsycopath.Never went out thieving,bullying,stealing or drunk.And I got smacked plenty.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

thedeans said:


> its not just the childrens act that protects children - the un convention on the rights of the child - article 19 - states that a child has a right to be kept safe from harm -this includes physical harm
> 
> in my opinion NO ONE has the right to hurt anyone else - what to you as a full grown adult is a little smack - to a small child is much more - you are not "correcting" behaviour, you are just instilling fear





> Article 19
> 1. States Parties shall take all appropriate legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect the child from all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect or negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation, including sexual abuse, while in the care of parent(s), legal guardian(s) or any other person who has the care of the child.


That's just the same as section 58 of the childrens act...You can't compare that to a smack, that is defining abuse...


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

MissShelley said:


> That's just the same as section 58 of the childrens act...You can't compare that to a smack, that is defining abuse...


I think its because that raising a hand and making contact is classed as violence. And under that bit you posted states ''all forms of physical or mental violence''


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Acacia86 said:


> I think its because that raising a hand and making contact is classed as violence. And under that bit you posted states ''all forms of physical or mental violence''


It doesn't though, the law doesn't define a smack as physical violence, like I said in a previous post, it's dependant on a lot of things, it's not just black and white...


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

MissShelley said:


> It doesn't though, the law doesn't define a smack as physical violence, like I said in a previous post, it's dependant on a lot of things, it's not just black and white...


Well yes it is dependant on a lot of things, anger being one them!!

To raise ones hand in a temper of any sort is violence to me.

This is my personal opinion.

If went out and smacked another woman tomorrow no matter what reason i would be done for it. I used violence towards another.....

Also where does it say that smacking it OK?? Sorry i do not live in the UK so i am not up to speed all laws and where to find them reliably.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm sure if it doesn't leave a mark it's not violence/child abuse.

I don't agree with smacking at all but sure I read that somewhere.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> I completely agree. I hate seeing children being smacked :frown:
> 
> Just because they did does not mean its ok for us to.
> 
> I have always belived that smacking is simply a parent being so frustrated with a child that they resort to violence.





thedeans said:


> in my opinion NO ONE has the right to hurt anyone else - what to you as a full grown adult is a little smack - to a small child is much more - you are not "correcting" behaviour, you are just instilling fear


I will always heartily applaud the admirable voices of reason. God knows there aren't many in this harsh and muddled world.
Probably muted, intimidated by the fear of being slapped.

:idea:
So that's why the meek shall inherit the earth; They won't dare refuse it!:lol:


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Zaros said:


> In answer to your question, yes I do have children. 3. Two sons and a daughter. They're 18, 22 and 24. The daughter being my first born. As I have stated in my original post I have never once had the need to raise a hand to any of them in temper or frustration. I find the act of physically punishing a child repugnant and quite unecessary. To be perfectly honest every time I see someone slap, smack or hit their offspring it makes me seethe inside with anger.
> Just because our parents/guardians may have applied that same old world regime to us when we were little it doesn't make it right nor give us an excuse to inflict that upon our own children when our patience has run short thereby teaching them it's alright and fair to hand it on to theirs.
> Furthermore, I understand that people are naturally bound to defend themselves and their controversial actions regarding this issue because, in all probability, they're not honest enough to condemn or criticise the actions of their parents.
> Inflammatory that may seem but let's be brutally honest who, as a child, can remember not despising or resenting a parent for handing out physical punishment?
> ...


I do not know what a sarplaninac is  and I except your opion and respect them diffent strokes for differnt folks and I am a little in awe of you,, .


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> I do not know what a sarplaninac is


This is a Sarplaninac.

Well two actually. (Still mere pups in this photo)
*PHOTOS REMOVED DUE TO MALICIOUS INTENT*



piggybaker said:


> do you!, would you! have you? I don't anymore,, I used to.
> Its not on to do it now they understand the rules and there is more than one way to skin a cat:lol:.


You mean there's more than one method of disciplining a child other than parental thuggery.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Perhaps to teach yourself a little more tolerance regarding errant animals you should purchase a Sarplaninac. Should you ever dare to smack this dog your kids will never have to worry about you smacking them or anyone else ever again


LOL, now we can see why!!! What fantastic looking dogs you have.


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