# Munchkin Breeder



## reeceyb (Mar 2, 2016)

I am looking for a Munchkin Breeder. If anyone here knows of one could please give me the information. Also is the website Kittenlist.co.uk real or another Scam site. This finding a Official breeder of munchkin breedt is proving more difficult than we had anticipated.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

The main registry in the UK is the GCCF and it doesn't recognise the Munchkin, and never will. So, there are not many of them in the UK. kittenlist.co.uk is a genuine website but it's like Ebay - not all the people advertising there are.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Kittenlist.co.uk is free to use so doesn't sound like a scam to me. It does list a few breeders of Munchkin [as you no doubt saw] so you could give those listed breeders a call and see if they have any kittens for sale at present, or due soon.

To protect yourself don't part with any money (e.g. as a deposit) until you have visited the breeder's home and seen the kittens (and their mother) and have satisfied yourself the kittens are in good health, well socialised etc.

The Munchkin is recognised as a pedigree breed by TICA, but not by GCCF, as you are no doubt aware.


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## reeceyb (Mar 2, 2016)

I have contacted one of the breeders there that shown on the list. Just have to see what comes of it.
We're after either a munchkin or a Exotic Short hair.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Very confused now! Aren't you the person who said they were getting a Munchkin this Saturday, but didn't know whether to have a boy or a girl?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@carly87 - ah yes, you are right there - I didn't see that earlier post before. The OP said they were collecting the kitten on Saturday.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm super confused. I thought originally you were dead set on a scottish fold. Or a russian blue. And now munchkin??  
What happened to the kitten you were getting on Saturday?
Genuine question, why would you want to buy a kitten that has deformed legs? I personally see it as immoral to breed such a cat.


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## reeceyb (Mar 2, 2016)

Let me explain what has happened.. We have fell into a scam we did not see this coming. We actually thought we was speaking to a registered-breeder, seller of munchkin. nearly sent cash for the delivery of the kitten it was down to emails that just did not look right so we had this checked out and well it's a scam. We would of sent money thinking it was a actual registered breeder to only discover there was no kitty. 
My 19 year old daughter wants a munchkin hence why i am after one. I should state clearly my intentions, My apologies for causing any confusion here. 
Myself personally am after a Scottish fold can be a Exotic short hair. Or a russian Blue. 
I have been in-touch with a registered breeder of scotish fold & Exotic on the phone. Even been down to staffordshire and met with the breeder and seen there champion parents. and it's now a waiting game for the new litter which is expected in july. So it's waiting till then to hopefully be able to get a new addition to our family.
Again my apologies for causing such confusion. 
Just angry atm with the disappointment about the scam we nearly put ourselves through.


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

reeceyb said:


> I have been in-touch with a registered breeder of scotish fold


Registered with who if you don't mind me asking.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

The scam is very familiar sadly  Always, always visit a breeder and see the kittens and their mum. 
I have to agree with @moggie14 about Munchkins though. I would not want to buy a kitten deliberately bred with a deformity


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

So your 19 year old wants a Munchkin, but you want an Exotic and have seen them, but you still went ahead and almost booked a Munchkin despite being on the Exotic breeder's waiting list and knowing she had a litter due? Again, doesn't sound right to me.

I also don't understand why you'd even consider paying money for a kitten you haven't seen to a breeder you don't know.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Money for delivery is one of the big scams. Whilst it's common to deliver abroad it's not in the UK. BTW where does your daughter live? If she's a home she will have problems moving out unless she can afford to buy - many landlords don't allow pets. If she is in rented accommodation has she checked she is allowed pets?


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## reeceyb (Mar 2, 2016)

My daughter lives with her fiancee in a 5 bedroom bungalow in the Country with 2 acres of land so i'm sure they have everything that would be most suited for any cat.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

How much land they have is completely irrelevant, as the Munchkin will not be allowed out, or shouldn't be.

But in your initial post, didn't you mention that the Munchkin was for you, wnd would a female or male be better as there was a pre-existing cat? Memory may be tricking me here, but I do remember you clearly either saying or implying that it was for you.


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## munks (Jun 1, 2016)

carly87 said:


> How much land they have is completely irrelevant, as the Munchkin will not be allowed out, or shouldn't be.
> 
> But in your initial post, didn't you mention that the Munchkin was for you, wnd would a female or male be better as there was a pre-existing cat? Memory may be tricking me here, but I do remember you clearly either saying or implying that it was for you.


No memory fail,

Ok so those of you who kind of know me from my topic's and posts so far..
Know i have a beautiful girl called Willow she is such a loving cat she is nearly 2 years old. Still a young baby herself,.I need some advice and need to get this before Saturday when a new member of the family arrives.
We have got a Munchkin Kitten coming to our home. Now because of willow being female what's best a male-Kitten? or Female-Kitten? I just want what's best for both Willow and new 12 weeks old munchkin kitten who we're calling Boy: Henry. If a girl we're calling: Angel


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

moggie14 said:


> Genuine question, why would you want to buy a kitten that has deformed legs? I personally see it as immoral to breed such a cat.


Hundred percent agree with you here.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Why does your story change with every post?

As someone else said a "munchkin" cat should never be let outside.

Sex of kitten doesn't matter. Read up on how to do proper slow introductions, planning to keep the kitten and adult cat apart while they learn about one another. Plan to have the kitten spayed or neutered (if not already done) as soon as possible.

Since you've already purchased the kitten surely you already know the sex of the kitten. You've met the breeder, been to the home, met the parents, chose the kitten (or was chosen by kitten) saw the results of the health tests....right?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Munchkins can be healthy, they can run, jump and play just like other cats. Not a breed I would own personally, but all the ones I know are lovely little cats.

As said in the other thread, unusual not to have selected a particular kitten at this point. The breeder should be able to help with which kittens personality will fit in best with your current cat.

Not sure what your daughters living situation and amount of land has to do with a kitten that'll be living at your home?


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

I seem to be confused, have we got 1 member using 2 different usernames or are Munks and Reecyb 2 different member, both buying Munchkins


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Cookieandme said:


> I seem to be confused, have we got 1 member using 2 different usernames or are Munks and Reecyb 2 different member, both buying Munchkins


I read Munks' post as a quote from Reecyb's other Munchkin thread.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Yes, Munks appears to be quoting Reecyb's post from his other thread on whether to buy a male or female Munchkin.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

As I said very confusing


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm very, very interested to get the OP's take on this, particularly as the last post has now been quoted. I suspect they'll not be back though.


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## Bilai (Jun 3, 2015)

I'm confused. Two diff people?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

No, not 2 different people. The second one was quoting the post that the OP made in another thread.


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## Bilai (Jun 3, 2015)

Bizarre!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It was asked earlier - where are there 'registered' breeders of Munchkins and Scottish Folds and which organisation are they registered with? Is this a UK based poster?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

They will be TICA, not GCCF. Or possibly CFA or FiFe.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Well I know it won't be GCCF which is what has me curious. Registered breeder does tend to be a term used on here for sellers of GCCF registered kittens - or at least breeding from GCCF registered cats.


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## munks (Jun 1, 2016)

Sorry me confusing people haha, I just quoted one of her past posts.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Don't see why that's the case, Havoc, as TICA breeders go through the same prefix registration process as GCCF ones. If I say registered breeder, I mean just that, regardless of which organisation that was with, and I suspect most others do too as the term is not synonymous with GCCF specifically.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_as TICA breeders go through the same prefix registration process as GCCF ones_
Sorry, didn't realise it had changed. I never had to join a club or get any signatures when I registered with TICA, all I had to do was pay the fee to the states.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

No no, that bit hasn't changed, but the fact that they/we need to register a prefix is exactly the same. I don't consider joining a club and getting a signed document prior to a prefix registration as any better than just having a prefix registration, as many clubs will sign this document off for new members. So in effect, you're just paying fees to 2 places rather than 1. Even if you have to wait a year, the club still in many cases knows no more about you than they did when you joined, so you've just paid your fees twice to the club. Basically when it comes down to it, regardless of which organisation you're with, you pay fees, register your prefix, and then voila, registered breeder!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_ I don't consider joining a club and getting a signed document prior to a prefix registration as any better than just having a prefix registration_
Neither do I and the very term 'registered breeder' gets my back up. I thought I was pretty careful in the way I worded my post  Whenever I point out that it's a meaningless term I get hounded on here by people assuring me that the GCCF prefix means something because the prefix holder once joined a club.


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_I thought you had to adhere to certain things. I only say registered breeder because how else am I supposed to separate a legitimate breeder and a byb._
Simple answer - by talking and visiting and using your best judgement just as you would if registries didn't exist. With the GCCF the rules apply to *anyone *registering the kittens with them so the premise that by buying a prefix the breeder is somehow checked out and 'better' than a non-prefix holder is completely false. A prefix is simply a unique name which nobody else can use *within that registry. *The only reason I registered mine with TICA was to ensure nobody else could copy my GCCF prefix.


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

To be fair, the organisations do give the idea that breeders have to adhere to a code of ethics, and many breeders misinterpret that as "registered breeders have to do XYZ", but whether you are a prefix holder or not, you still have to abide by the codes if registering a kitten. What a prefix does in my view at least, is provides good traceability for any problems which do come up. It also allows other breeders to oust the bad ones if they see problems in lines that the breeder won't admit. I have known some good breeders without a prefix, but those I could count twice over on the fingers of one hand I'm afraid, so whilst a prefix gives no guarantees at all that a breeder is ethical, it does promise a higher likelihood of it, if only slight.

So in short, a prefix is meaningless in terms of ensuring that you get a good kitten, but useful if you do your research and speak to other breeders as it provides increased traceability. Therefore I suppose you could argue that the increased traceability makes prefixed breeders better, but that's a catch 22 in itself.

The only scheme where your guarantees are higher is the TICA enhanced cattery scheme or something like that, can't remember what it's called, where your vet has to come and inspect multiple things at your premises, then sign you off as an outstanding cattery. The GCCF premier breeder scheme still only equires the payment of a fee to join, but with this one, you need to stick to a stricter code of ethics, so if enough complaints were lodged against a breeder they would be removed. Again not perfect, but just an extra level of protection.

Saying a cat must be registered is not the same thing as saying a cat must be prefix registered. Anyone can register a kitten with the GCCF provided it comes from 2 GCCF/other organisation active parents, and the owner has all the necessary paperwork to do it. Normally, this is the province of breeders as they are the only ones with active cats. However, a cat can be registered with an admin/office prefix instead of a breeder one. So yes, I'd agree, a pedigree cat should always be registered, whether their breeder carries a prefix or not.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Not saying anyone here does it but breeders then have to stop trying to promote being registered as a kind of insurance_
I have no idea why or when it became quite the thing to refer to 'registered breeders' because there's no such thing. I suspect it had a lot to do with the internet. You can get a prefix without ever having owned a cat - any cat. I get novice breeders asking to use my stud and telling me they're registered breeders as though it would affect my decision - well it does but not in any positive way.

_I have known some good breeders without a prefix, but those I could count twice over on the fingers of one hand I'm afraid,_
I've known many in my lifetime - and many dreadful prefix holders. As it's nothing more than an admin move it isn't something which was considered necessary for any but the more serious breeders/stud owners back in the 20th century. Most novice breeders wouldn't even think of applying for a prefix until they'd had a few litters. Now the GCCF have two different price structures for registering kittens to encourage the steady inflow of those £75 cheques.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

All these registries are just that, organisations which register pedigree cats. GCCF registered cats in theory come with a level of protection in that there is a Code of Ethics and a disciplinary committee which hears complaints and can impose sanctions. These sanctions are not enforceable so even the worst cases usually simply have a life ban from the GCCF. Sadly the Investigation Committee is one of the areas of cost cutting so it presumably cannot be as effective now as formerly.

Some very good people who only breed the occasional litter of kittens may use an administrative prefix so there is no need to be more suspicious of that than a prefix. Some breeders with a prefix have terrible standards. You really do have to be careful, even of registered kittens simply because the GCCF states 'Welfare Comes First' but there are only limited attempts to enforce DNA testing for disease. It is usually left to the individual BACs and they can be very resistant as I know to my cost when I tried to persuade the Oriental and Siamese BACs to test to ensure no kittens homozygous for the PRA gene were born in matings of our breeds.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_ These sanctions are not enforceable so even the worst cases usually simply have a life ban from the GCCF. Sadly the Investigation Committee is one of the areas of cost cutting so it presumably cannot be as effective now as formerly._
I think lack of efficacy comes mainly from the ability of breeders to start using other registries at the drop of a hat. There's no reason at all why a breeder would feel compelled to comply with any decision. Even at the top of the scale where a breeder is suspended the only thing the GCCF can do is refuse to register kittens. They can't, for example, refuse a legitimate request for a certified pedigree so the breeder can register a breeding cat elsewhere.

People do have it in their heads that the GCCF is some sort of official body with statutory powers. It isn't, it's just a club and if you got kicked out of one golf club or left because you didn't like the rules you'd go and join another. It's no different.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carly87 said:


> <snip>
> Basically when it comes down to it, regardless of which organisation you're with, you pay fees, register your prefix, and then voila, registered breeder!


I thought it was my prefix that was registered, not me


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rainfall said:


> Unless I am getting this wrong, are you two saying that being registered with a prefix requires nothing except a fee?
> 
> I thought you had to adhere to certain things. I only say registered breeder because how else am I supposed to separate a legitimate breeder and a byb.


Look at the age the kittens are rehomed at. It should be at least 13 weeks and have had first & second vaccinations. It should of course be registered. There should be no 'costs more with papers' caper. You should be able to see the kitten in the breeders home with it's mother. Have a look out the back - is there a cattery? Might the mum & kittens have been brought in just to show you?


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Apologies OS, slip there given that previous posts were mentioning registered breeders. Of course it's your prefix that's registered, not you. Perhaps I should have said registered prefix holder, as you are registered as owning the prefix when it is registered. I guess some could argue that, as prefixes are only used by breeders, then ergo a registered prefix owner is a registered breeder.

Just to be clear, I never call myself a registered breeder, either on adverts or on my website. I do say I'm registered with XXX, or that kittens are registered. I do believe that this term registered breeder is more of a misunderstanding than an attempt to pull the wool over peoples' eyes though.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_I do believe that this term registered breeder is more of a misunderstanding than an attempt to pull the wool over peoples' eyes though_
Really? I'm afraid I don't have your confidence. I don't understand how potential kitten buyers find these 'registered breeders' unless they are promoting themselves by using the term. There's no official list of them by breed so how does a kitten buyer start to find one? Why refer to yourself as such a thing if you don't think it will make a difference?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Of course there's not a list of 'registered breeders' by breed as I can use my GCCF prefix to register cats of any breed. I advertise my kittens (when I have to) as being registered, as they are.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I understand breeders would advertise kittens as registered, what I don't understand is when people say they researched and looked for a 'registered breeder'. I was sort of assuming they looked for a breeder rather than kitten ads so I get your point.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Perhaps I should have said registered prefix holder_
To be 100% accurate it would be 'holder of a registered prefix'  The breeder is never registered.


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## Bilai (Jun 3, 2015)

Thinking back to last year when we did all our cat research I have only ever seen text such as "parents are GCCF registered and kittens will be too" however I'm fairly certain I would have referred to the breeder as registered - even whilst technically knowing she wasn't.

It's a lazy shorthand and I imagine the use of it probably allows some BYBs to fool potential clients into thinking they are something they're not.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I suppose it depends what you're looking for. We do get threads here and I get referrals where a kitten buyer has relayed a list of horrific circumstances within a household and/or taken an obviously unwell or underweight kitten because 'it was a registered breeder'. People do seem to suspend reason and judgement when the term is used. I have no idea why anyone would bypass litters of nicely reared, properly registered kittens bred by lovely people in favour of the alternative just because one breeder makes a point of having purchased a prefix - but they do.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

<snip>
To be 100% accurate it would be 'holder of a registered prefix'
<snip>
Come on Havoc. There's semantics and then there's semantics!w

I don't refer to myself as a registered breeder in adverts for kittens. See above. I think, as someone else said, people will use registered breeder as a short hand, as "I'm the holder of a registered prefix" is probably not going to be understood by the average buyer, whereas "Registered breeder" is. And as I say, it's only breeders who would have a purpose in buying a prefix, so as they're using "registered breeder" to say "I hold a registered prefix", I really don't see the problem with advising people to look for this, if backed up with other information like registered kittens and all the rest of it.

I'll say again that I don't use this for myself, but the only problem I really have with it is when people categorically state that "I'm registered, that means I as a breeder am registered," etc etc etc.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_so as they're using "registered breeder" to say "I hold a registered prefix",* I really don't see the problem with advising people to look for this*_
Why advise a kitten buyer to look for registered prefix holders? The vast majority of current prefix holders joined a club for the minimum duration necessary to get the signature for their prefix application. Why are they necessarily a better breeder than the long term club member who stays up to date with BAC news, has years of experience, is known for their high standards?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Only because of the traceability for a new buyer, and nothing else. For a more xperienced buyer, or the friend of a breeder who has an insider to help them navigate the crazy waters of who's good and who isn't, it's not an issue at all. But at least a new buyer could google a prefix and look for reports of problems, or could go to the GCCF/TICA and find out if there have been any problems or whether that prefix has been struck off. It's literally no more than that.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Prefixes are never struck off. Breeders are suspended but makes no difference whatsoever if they are prefix holders or not. If you look at the suspension lists there is a column for the prefix and it's just left blank if the breeder is not a prefix holder.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I wish they would combine all the lists including the reason in a column of it's own, or even as separate 'chapters'. it's really tedious having to check several of them.


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