# New brother & sister kittens trying to mate - please help



## TonkGirl

We're having a horrible problem. We collected our Tonkinese kittens this evening, they're 14 weeks old and brother and sister. The breeder commented that our boy has is very large for his age and has large testicles, she said we'd have to have him neutered at 5 months not 6 because he is so well developed. 

Our boy mewed all the way home. When they finally ventured out of the carrier, the boy walked around like he was desperately looking for something (we assume his mother because he was a mother's boy, only boy in litter of 7) and mewing very loudly and aggressively. Then he started biting his sister's neck. When we went to bed soon after he kept biting her neck and trying to mate her. 

We phoned the breeder who said it was playing and that she would probably try to mount him too, it wasn't anything real. However I wasn't convinced and watching them, it's definitely real. I keep dragging him off by his scruff and I saw his penis out a couple of times. She keeps encouraging him too. It's now almost 4am and they're still trying to do it all the time. We're exhausted and worried and just don't know what to do. Please please help. We don't want to separate them into different rooms because they're in a new place and from a large litter with a mother and a loving auntie and I don't think they'd cope for the night without each other.


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## helz

Hi and welcome to the forum!
Well from my own experience, I know it is possible for a female to get pregnant at this age, but I cannot comment on the likelyhood of it happening to a Tonkinese.

From my understanding of cats, I believe the girl 'calls' the boy to mate, this is normally very noticable, the girls meow very loudly, roll around on the floor and stick their bums in the air.

I would suggest you do seperate them for the night, and any time they are alone. Plenty of people re-home one kitten at a time, and they manage being on their own, so I'm sure yours will be fine. The last thing you want if for your girl to be pregnant at this age, least of all with her brothers babies.

I suggest you speak to your vet tomorrow about bringing them in, they may be able to spay/neuter one of them early. But I am pretty sure there are no vets in my area that would do them this young.

I have heard some of the breeders on here talking about stud pants, these are to stop the un-neutered boys spraying inside the house, I wonder if they might help keep your chaps little chap away from your girl.


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## Saikou

I have homed brothers and sisters before together with no problem. At this age, that kind of behaviour is a dominance play act. They are both unsettled as they have been taken away from everything they have ever known. If she appears to be encouraging him then it is just play. Little boys pop their lipsticks on display quite often, doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does  From what I have seen of predominantly girl litters the boys are definitely under the thumb. He is probably enjoying getting the better of one of his sisters without the others all wading in 

They were probably after attention and have learnt already that if they behave like that you get out of bed and give them just what they want. Give them a couple of days to settle, then if his behaviour is still the same then ask your vet about early neutering. In the meantime, if he looks like he is getting too rough, then if she doesn't tell him off, which she would do if he was being too rough, then distract them with play with a rod toy of peice of string.


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## helz

Yikes... i'm suprised you think that Saikou, all kittens I have ever got have come in mixed sex groups, and although I have seen lots of rough playing (including biting necks), I have never seen them play with their dipsticks out.
The only time I have ever seen any of my guys get their equiptment out, is when they are having a wash.


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## Saikou

I don't why the yikes  just repeating what I have seen. 14 weeks old and they are not sexually active.

I did actually say in my reply if his behaviour continued to ask her vet about early neutering.


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## Toby & Darwin

Hi Tonkgirl, welcome to the forum.

Many years ago I got 2 Siamese kittens who were brother and sister and they didn't display any of this behaviour. The boy was neutered at 5 mths and the girl speyed at 6 mths.
I would have a chat with your vet and see what s/he suggests regards early neutering.

Can I just ask who you got them from?


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## helz

The yikes would me just expressing my surprise hun, not ment to be sarcastic or rude, so I hope it didnt come across that way. Its just one of my words if ya know what I mean.
14 weeks is only 2 weeks shy of 4 months, and at 4 months female kittens are regularly reported as getting pregnant. I would have just been worried that if this behaviour continued, that it would be too late to prevent pregnancy.
True, I have never seen a male appear sexually active at this age, but the OP did say he had large balls for his size, wouldnt that be a sign that he was an early developer?
Saying that, I dont know anything about Tonks, and as you are an Oriental breeder, I should think you would know a darn sight more about this breed than me.


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## TonkGirl

Thanks everyone for your replies. Please excuse me for not replying individually but I've had 3 hours poor sleep and am almost hallucinating with tiredness! 

It is definitely real not play fighting - I've had cats before and know. He is a huge cat with massive balls and whilst I know it's extremely rare, it's happening. He wasn't just dry-humping her, he was hooking into her and when I pulled him off his penis was fully out. He settled a little after I posted but then *she* started crying and presenting. She didn't put up any resistance at all and encouraged it. 

At 5.30am we moved them into the back bedroom for my neighbour's sake and they settled. I spoke to my breeder and she said it could be because she gave us a fleece blanket with the mother's scent on (for comfort) but the mother had been calling all night in heat so it could be that sex hormones were on it, and that being in the carrier together with the blanket for the 2 hour car journey plus the separation anxiety prompted the behaviour. 

I'm going to speak to my vet about early neutering, but he's only 3 1/2 months, although the size of a 5 month old. I just pray it was the blanket and we don't have to go through it again tonight. 

It definitely wasn't attention, neither of them wanted to know us. They didn't respond to being stroked never mind trying to play with them. 

Today he is anxious and is still looking round for his mum. As soon as he loses sight of his sister he yowls til she runs to him. He's very needy and soft, no sign of horniness, although I'm not sure if this only happens at night? 

As for the breeder, she is one of the top Tonkinese breeders and I've known about her for 4 years so no issues there. She phoned me at 9.30am to check on them and is wonderful.

Thanks again everyone. Any further advice from anyone would be appreciated, and I'll phone the vet now


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## Toby & Darwin

Hopefully it was the blanket and maybe if you remove it he should calm down a bit.

I only asked about the breeder as I own 2 Tonks myself and am planning breeding them next year so just wondered who it was.


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## TonkGirl

Well last night was a LOT better. He woke up crying about 5 times and twice gently bit her neck and put a leg over her back but decided against it - progress! Took them both to the vet today for an introductory look-over and chat. The vet reckons he's very mature for his age but extremely unlikely to be fertile. Thank god it transpires they agree with early fixing at that practice so they're booked in to be done at 4 1/2 months. 

Thanks everyone for your advice and support.


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## Toby & Darwin

I am glad you have sorted it out and hopefully once he is neutered he will be a good boy.
Have you got any photos of them I would love to see them. Which colours have you got?


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