# Help please with aggressive adolescent chihuahua x jack russell



## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Can anyone give me some advice please on how to deal with my 8 month old Jackahuahua's aggressive behaviour towards any dog under the age of 2?










Here she is with my other Jackahuahua Poppy (the black one) who is a little younger. They are not from the same litter, I got them on the same day at around 9 weeks of age, and they get on great. They are both tiny, around 3 kg, and approx 8 " to the shoulder. I started puppy socialisation as soon as they had the 2nd jabs, and up until a couple of months ago they were great with other dogs, happy and forward going, Poppy still is, but Daisy has developed a strong dislike of other puppies. She will approach other dogs, have a sniff, and as soon as she has determined the dog is young, she lunges at them, growling, hackles raised, teeth bared and chases them off. She is fine with older dogs, only puppies and young dogs illicit this response. This is not the normal puppy 'play fighting' behaviour, it is very aggressive and I am worried that the next stage will be biting, unless I can put a stop to it. She has not yet been spayed, but they are booked in to have this done in the next couple of weeks. I wonder if she might calm down after the op, and whether this behaviour is linked to her reaching sexual maturity, as I don't believe it is linked to poor socialisation. Is it dominance related behaviour? Or a chihuahua thing, as she is half chihuahua, which, I am lead to believe, can be very 'one human orientated' and protective? And it doesn't seem to be linked to Poppy, Daisy doesn't seem to care who Poppy says hello to, the decision to 'have a go' seems to be directly linked to the 'greet and sniff' stage.

Whatever the reason, can anyone give me some advice on what to do with her in order to curb this behaviour? If an 8 month old large breed was exhibiting this behaviour with other puppies, I think it would be pretty frightening, so I need to deal with this behaviour as if I was dealing with a bigger breed. At the moment I am saying "Daisy, no!!!" and if she breaks off and comes back to me, I praise her. But if she doesn't break off it is quite embarrassing watching her go all Tasmanian Devil on the happy pup who just wanted to say hello!!


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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

I'd suggest rather than saying no to her you call her to you in a high happy voice making yourself sound as attractive as pos.
My dogs used to race over to other dogs on walks & sounding cross when I called them back was counter productive, however when I
said 'gently' in a high happy tone of voice they'd wheel around straight back to me. Maybe you should keep Daisy on a flexi til you find out if this works for her
Spaying may help calm her down but stopping her practising the behaviour is most important. I would keep your eyes peeled for young dogs & act all excited about running in opposite direction


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Hi LoopyL

Thanks for reply. Your advice feels right to me. A dog behaviourist told me to stamp down on it, with a short telling off, then praise if she responded, but it feels to me that by doing that I am introducing more tension into the situation and she will pick up on that. It's a shame because she used to enjoy dogs coming over and saying hello, although she never ran over to them, only Poppy does that. I will try to keep these situations happy and upbeat , and distract her with a treat or two, reinforce that meeting new puppies is a happy time. See how that goes, but I agree if it doesn't work I will have to start avoiding puppy situations or leash her if I see that the approaching dog is a young one. I hope she grows out of this!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
Just to err on the side of caution, i'd avoid intros to ANY young dogs / pups until
after her desex & recovery period - which would mean desex plus approx 2-wks
time, so that her abdomen has completely healed & she can be safely off-leash.
.
Remember that during her post-spay, she should be on-leash only, with zero time
playing free with another dog - that's 10 to 14 days of on-leash walks, depending
upon how fast she recovers & how quickly she heals / any complications.
.
Most vets recommend 7-days minimum of solo time for post-spay, so her buddy
cannot sleep in the same space with her, etc - U don't want him to lick her incision
"for" her, or start a friendly wrestling match to pass the time.
.
She'll need a crate of her own [just in case U crate them as a pair, which is a bad i-
dea - any dog can get irritated with another in close quarters, & injuries or long-term
bad feelings that ruin their friendship, can result] - i'd suggest a small airline-crate
AKA shipping crate, they're far sturdier & safer vs bendable, rust-prone WIRE a-k-a
"show" crates.
U can often buy them cheap as used items, on such direct-seller sites as CraigsList,
GumTree, etc. A "used" one from a pup who's outgrown it can be half the new price
& in near-perfect condition; they last for decades, don't leak or spill, as the bottom is
one-piece cast material, & are the Gold Standard for safe transport of pets.
.
Let her play with her buddy or dogs she already knows & likes - also, i'd probly ask
a helpful local trainer to come by & see her, AFTER her spay & recovery, to watch
some careful introductions to friendly larger pups that she's unlikely to hurt - say a Lab
or Golden, any similar-sized, sociable pups, of 4-mos age or so.
I wouldn't try introducing her to any young pups [6 to 12-WO] as any nasty experiences
at such a young age can damage their trust in other dogs.
.
If U're in the UK, APDT-uk members are a good 1st stop. They are not allowed to use
aversive tools or coercive means, so no APDT-uk trainer will drag her over to meet a
dog she doesn't want to meet, shove or smack her for reacting, use a choke-chain or
shock-collar, etc, etc.
Look for someone who has experience with aggro - not just a "puppy trainer" or some-
one teaching basic manners, but B-Mod experience.
.
If there are no nearby humane trainers, "Click to calm" is a great DIY manual. Buy or
borrow the book, & follow the directions - very clear, very simple, recipe style.
Similarly "Control Unleashed" is very good - both books have many videos of their tac-
tics in use, with real dogs, on UTube.
.
The quicker she's spayed, the better - get it done BEFORE her 1st estrus, if possible,
to virtually eliminate mammary AKA breast cancer, among other worries [Pyometra,
etc].
If she's not scheduled for this week, maybe they could bump her appt up? - U don't
want estrus to come along & push her spay back 90-days to 120-days.
.
.
.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

do they like playing with a ball or a toy out on walks?


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Hi Leashedforlife

Thank you for replying to my post. I am aware that with small breeds you need to get them spayed around 6 months because small breeds mature faster. Unfortunately the people I bought her off I think lied to me about her age to get out of doing her jabs, so I bought 2 bitches I thought were both 9 weeks old, and got one who was 9 and one who was actually 12 weeks old. So Daisy has matured a lot quicker, than Poppy. I am aware of all the issues around spaying bitches, and why you should do for health reasons. Unfortunately I didn't see far enough into the future and recognise the problems of getting 2 puppies spayed at the same time! With this in mind, my husband has taken 5 days off work so that we can try and have a puppy each, sleep eat everything separate to give the stitches time to heal. You will probably berate me for this, but both our dogs sleep in bed with us, Daisy sleeps on Geoff's head and Poppy sleeps under the covers at my feet. So this will be a difficult time! I will sleep downstairs on the sofa with Poppy, and we will walk them separately on lead on pavement only. So thank you for advice about spaying, but what I really need is advice about why Daisy is now behaving like this, and what I should do about it, unless you think that her aggressive behaviour is down to her reaching sexual maturity? All bitches go through this, Poppy is just on the cusp, but I don't see any signs of aggression in her.


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Wiz201 said:


> do they like playing with a ball or a toy out on walks?


No they are tiny, they only like running along side me and exploring and sniffing stuff


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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

I think if I was you I'd try to avoid pups for a while so Daisy has time to forget she doesn't like them & is able to relax (being spayed is enough to cope with) but if she sees one while offlead before you do try the 'happy' method. I'd stick to rewarding good behaviour but don't tell her off for bad behaviour just remove her to a safe distance. She'll be onlead for a while after her spay anyway so hope you can break the habit.
. 
My (much bigger) dogs sleep with me  so your arrangement seems perfectly normal


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I would serious reconsider spaying her at the moment as this could make her behaviour worse http://www.apbc.org.uk/system/files...sheet_of_spaying_risks_and_benefits_bitch.pdf


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> I would serious reconsider spaying her at the moment as this could make her behaviour worse http://www.apbc.org.uk/system/files...sheet_of_spaying_risks_and_benefits_bitch.pdf


it also says spay before first season if two bitches living together of a same age. I'd go with spaying on that reason


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I think that sometimes so called "socialisation" is, in reality flooding and often has the opposite effect on the dog. 

I would be inclined to keep her on flexi around dogs that she isn't familiar or happy with so that she does not practise this behaviour.

Stress is cumulative and takes a few days to completely dissipate. A couple of days at home, with no negative encounters, to allow her to completely relax would then mean she will be more receptive to learning.

Then you can begin to teach her to relax/accept other dogs - keeping her far enough away and below threshold so that she can be rewarded for the desired behavior, etc.

I would find a good behaviourist who can help you with this - someone who does not advocate dominance or alpha, etc.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Wiz201 said:


> it also says spay before first season if two bitches living together of a same age. I'd go with spaying on that reason


There are many more reasons NOT to spay so early including delay in closure of growth plates and infantile vulva issues


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

From what you describe, the behaviour is unlikely to be radically altered by spaying as it doesn't seem to be centred around a dogs gender but rather around it's age (therefore possibly energy). To this end I would suspect that it is a bit of fear based reaction thus the behaviour is aimed at chasing the other dog away. And the more it's practised the better she gets at it. To be honest i would probably hold off spaying until the behaviour is settled.

Either way as has been said, look at managing the behaviour first and foremost ... controlling her access to other dogs and rewarding her when she looks to you and doesn't react. I would also concentrate on working her individually. As you got her and your other dog Poppy on the same day and they are the same age, I would be a little concerned that they may have some characteristics associated with litter syndrome ... which often has the effect of making one puppy less confident than the other. So maybe some time alone training if you don't already do so.

J


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> From what you describe, the behaviour is unlikely to be radically altered by spaying as it doesn't seem to be centred around a dogs gender but rather around it's age (therefore possibly energy). To this end I would suspect that it is a bit of fear based reaction thus the behaviour is aimed at chasing the other dog away. And the more it's practised the better she gets at it. To be honest i would probably hold off spaying until the behaviour is settled.
> 
> Either way as has been said, look at managing the behaviour first and foremost ... controlling her access to other dogs and rewarding her when she looks to you and doesn't react. I would also concentrate on working her individually. As you got her and your other dog Poppy on the same day and they are the same age, I would be a little concerned that they may have some characteristics associated with litter syndrome ... which often has the effect of making one puppy less confident than the other. So maybe some time alone training if you don't already do so.
> 
> J


Hi James

Thanks for your reply. I did read up on litter mate syndrome before buying 2 puppies at the same time, and how it can lead to having 2 halves of one dog instead of 2 fully developed dogs, capable of functioning separately. There was lots of conflicting opinions, but in the end I decided that the benefits out weighed the disadvantages. This has proved to be the case so far, in all but this matter with Daisy. One of the contributing factors might be that with 2 such small/cute dogs, almost everyone wants to stop and say hello and ask me questions about them. So whilst I am distracted by talking to the other dog owners, it is difficult to keep an eye on what else is going on. I will try and take her out on my own a couple of times a week, to places that have less people/dog traffic and build up her confidence. And maybe when we are with Poppy and pass other owners with their dogs if Daisy expresses no interest in saying hello, which she often does, I will keep walking on with her, let Poppy say hello, and try to explain to the owner that I am not being rude, only trying to deal with a behavioural issue. Maybe I'll wear a sandwich board saying "sorry, dog in training, can't stop!" )


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

smokeybear said:


> There are many more reasons NOT to spay so early including delay in closure of growth plates and infantile vulva issues


Yes I have read how important the sexual maturation hormones are very important to full physical development, spay too early and you interrupt this process.


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Lurcherlad said:


> I think that sometimes so called "socialisation" is, in reality flooding and often has the opposite effect on the dog.
> 
> I would be inclined to keep her on flexi around dogs that she isn't familiar or happy with so that she does not practise this behaviour.
> 
> ...


Hi thanks for your reply. You might have something here, when they were very young I started them off with puppy parties for socialisation, which neither of them seemed to get anything out of. All the other puppies were much bigger, and more boisterous, and they seemed scared most of the time and kept running to me, which I was told not to let them do. I gave up after 2 sessions because of this, and instead we all sat outside the cafe in the local park, where people and dogs would filter in and out, and they could say hello or not, instead of being trapped in a hall with 7 or 8 other barking manic puppies. I think I will find a behaviourist, I am worried now that I am only making matters worse,


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I wouldn't rush into spaying at only six months. 

I have a 7 year old JR bitch and she does not like pups. She'll warn them away and then, (if she got the chance), follow up with a bite. I don't allow her to 'meet' puppies at all and if anyone tries to approach us with a pup, I stop them, saying Rosie is not good with pups. 

I could try and teach her to tolerate puppies but she dislikes them so much, I don't feel I would ever really be able to trust her and I don't want to allow an innocent pup to approach her, only to be nipped in the face.


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

LoopyL said:


> I think if I was you I'd try to avoid pups for a while so Daisy has time to forget she doesn't like them & is able to relax (being spayed is enough to cope with) but if she sees one while offlead before you do try the 'happy' method. I'd stick to rewarding good behaviour but don't tell her off for bad behaviour just remove her to a safe distance. She'll be onlead for a while after her spay anyway so hope you can break the habit.
> .
> My (much bigger) dogs sleep with me  so your arrangement seems perfectly normal


We don't see many pups when we are out, but I think you are right,if I can see an obviously young dog coming our way, we will have to walk off in another direction, as I know it is only going to end one way. Maybe the less stressful encounters she has on a walk, will build up her confidence a bit. I have been trying the 'happy method' the last couple of days, and it is more productive than the 'Daisy no!' method, but we have still had a couple of incidents. Maybe I just can't stop at all to talk to other dog owners, until Daisy is no longer exhibiting this aggressive behaviour. Keep walking on calling her and keeping her attention, until the other dog has passed by, then lots of praise and a treat.


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Sweety said:


> I wouldn't rush into spaying at only six months.
> 
> I have a 7 year old JR bitch and she does not like pups. She'll warn them away and then, (if she got the chance), follow up with a bite. I don't allow her to 'meet' puppies at all and if anyone tries to approach us with a pup, I stop them, saying Rosie is not good with pups.
> 
> I could try and teach her to tolerate puppies but she dislikes them so much, I don't feel I would ever really be able to trust her and I don't want to allow an innocent pup to approach her, only to be nipped in the face.


Yes I have met a few Jack Russell and Jack Russell x owners who tell me the same thing with their dogs. Unfortunately because Daisy is so small when she is trying to see off another puppy 3 times her size people think it is funny and say 'oh don't worry mine needs to learn' They would not think it is funny if Daisy bit their puppy! I do see an actual dislike of young dogs going on with Daisy, not just a puppy dominance thing. Did your bitch always behave this way?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

sam buchanan said:


> Yes I have met a few Jack Russell and Jack Russell x owners who tell me the same thing with their dogs. Unfortunately because Daisy is so small when she is trying to see off another puppy 3 times her size people think it is funny and say 'oh don't worry mine needs to learn' They would not think it is funny if Daisy bit their puppy! I do see an actual dislike of young dogs going on with Daisy, not just a puppy dominance thing. Did your bitch always behave this way?


Not when she was very young. Probably, she began to be intolerant of pups when she was around the same age as your bitch.

If I see someone approaching with an offlead pup, I put Rosie on a short lead and keep her walking. If the puppy is onlead, I warn the owner not to let it approach Rosie. (Rosie would never approach a puppy).

I have heard the ridiculous "He needs to learn" line many times. I tend to ignore it.

I think some older dogs find pups hard to tolerate because of their bouncy, 'in your face' behaviour and I do believe bitches will attempt to put the puppy in it's place.

What exactly does Daisy do when approached by a pup?


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Not when she was very young. Probably, she began to be intolerant of pups when she was around the same age as your bitch.
> 
> If I see someone approaching with an offlead pup, I put Rosie on a short lead and keep her walking. If the puppy is onlead, I warn the owner not to let it approach Rosie. (Rosie would never approach a puppy).
> 
> ...


This invariably how it goes down with any approaching dog. Poppy will bound ahead to say hello, and she displays subservience, rolling over on her back to let them sniff. Me and Daisy will catch up and the owner wants to talk about Poppy and how cute she is, what breed she is, how old she is etc. Daisy will then sniff the other dog, and will have a go if the dog is young....anything up to 2 years old really. It takes a few seconds, once Daisy has had a sniff she will have a go, with very young pups she will do this straight away as they approach, in that typical puppy manner, and run straight up to her. Daisy will not run up to any dog to say hello, like Poppy does, if she isn't walking behind my feet, she is running and playing with Poppy to one side or the other.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

My Rosie is not what I would call aggressive, but she really isn't interested in other dogs ............ she has no desire to play or even socialise with them. 

Left to her own devices, she walks past other dogs, doesn't even look at them. If they approach her, she will exchange a sniff, but if the dog then outstays it's welcome or gets pushy, she will warn them away, first with an air snap then she would follow through with a nip, if left to her own devices. It isn't only pups she dislikes, it's any bouncy, pushy dog.

I deal with it really by avoiding such situations. Rosie doesn't want to meet other dogs, so I warn their owners that she isn't friendly. I often get "Oh, don't worry love, he's VERY friendly". I always say, "I'm sure he is, but my bitch isn't. She will bite". I get between Rosie and the other dog and keep her moving.

I know some people think all dogs need to socialise and be one big happy bunch, running round together, but that's not realistic. Some dogs don't want to socialise.

I have a similar problem to you as I walk our young Staffy with Rosie and she would like to get to know every other dog, but I'm afraid she has to keep moving too. I don't particularly want her to develop the habit of approaching other dogs.


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Sweety said:


> My Rosie is not what I would call aggressive, but she really isn't interested in other dogs ............ she has no desire to play or even socialise with them.
> 
> Left to her own devices, she walks past other dogs, doesn't even look at them. If they approach her, she will exchange a sniff, but if the dog then outstays it's welcome or gets pushy, she will warn them away, first with an air snap then she would follow through with a nip, if left to her own devices. It isn't only pups she dislikes, it's any bouncy, pushy dog.
> 
> ...


Thankyou for this, I sometimes walk them with our neighbour's dog.... a 5 year old good natured Cockerpoo, and Daisy likes him, so she doesn't have an 'innate' dislike of other dogs, maybe she wants to meet and hang out with dogs on her own terms, and just doesn't want to stop and greet every dog we pass like Poppy does. Poppy will come immediately if I call her when she is meeting and greeting, so like you I think I will from now on, keep walking, and call Poppy to come with us. Like Rosie, it seems that she just doesn't want to say hello, it is me letting Poppy stop and greet that is causing the problem.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

sam buchanan said:


> Thankyou for this, I sometimes walk them with our neighbour's dog.... a 5 year old good natured Cockerpoo, and Daisy likes him, so she doesn't have an 'innate' dislike of other dogs, maybe she wants to meet and hang out with dogs on her own terms, and just doesn't want to stop and greet every dog we pass like Poppy does. Poppy will come immediately if I call her when she is meeting and greeting, so like you I think I will from now on, keep walking, and call Poppy to come with us. Like Rosie, it seems that she just doesn't want to say hello, it is me letting Poppy stop and greet that is causing the problem.


Good idea, I think. Rudi, (Staffy girl), would stop and, hopefully, play with every other dog, but I don't allow her to.

Your problem is by no means unusual. I know personally a fair few dogs who don't tolerate others well, and on this forum, there are a number of dogs exactly the same.

Rosie has a few dogs in her life who she does tolerate very well but, strange dogs she has no time for.

Hopefully, once Daisy learns that you will take control, keep her and Poppy moving and not put her in a position where she's forced to come nose to nose with other dogs, she may well become more relaxed.


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Good idea, I think. Rudi, (Staffy girl), would stop and, hopefully, play with every other dog, but I don't allow her to.
> 
> Your problem is by no means unusual. I know personally a fair number of dogs who don't tolerate others well, and on this forum, there are a fair number of dogs exactly the same.
> 
> ...


Thankyou so much. I knew it was me doing something wrong, but I couldn't pin point what it was! It's so easy to get caught up in the moment when Poppy is being all cute and the other owners are asking me all these questions about them, I was forgetting that Daisy wasn't getting anything out of it! Whilst I have your attention do you think I should go ahead with the spaying? They are both starting to hump each other!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

sam buchanan said:


> Thankyou so much. I knew it was me doing something wrong, but I couldn't pin point what it was! It's so easy to get caught up in the moment when Poppy is being all cute and the other owners are asking me all these questions about them, I was forgetting that Daisy wasn't getting anything out of it! Whilst I have your attention do you think I should go ahead with the spaying? They are both starting to hump each other!


Well, personally, I wait until three months after the first season to have a bitch spayed. My Vet won't spay before a bitch has had a season.

It may be best to have a chat and see what your vet advises.

Often, humping isn't a sexual thing, but motivated by excitement. Have you tried stepping in quickly when one begins humping the other and distracting/diverting?

My JR bitch is seven years old and spayed, so I wasn't looking forward to Rudi having her first season, as there can be tension between some bitches when hormones come into the picture. She had her season in December and I was just a little extra vigilant. All was well with them though. Rudi will be spayed at the beginning of March.

There are pros and cons for early spaying and the argument rages on, often on this forum. If you trust your vet, I would be guided by him.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
_*pubertal desex *[spay / neuter at approx 5 to 8-MO] _is not "early" -
in the USA, 5 to 7-MO was bog-standard for both genders since before 1965,
quite possibly the veterinary-Std since 1955; I'm unsure of the exact time frame,
but in any case, millions & millions of dogs, M & F, were desexed at puberty for
several human generations [that's approx 20-yrs].
.
Meanwhile, _*Pediatric desex*_ is also known as "early", but this bitch has already
aged-out of "pediatric", which is S/N performed between 8-WO to 14-WO.
.
Please don't confuse an already-confusing issue with vague terminology - refer to
PEDIATRIC, pubertal, post-pubertal, or adult S/N. Each has its own set of benefits
vs risks, & as a matter of fact, research has shown pediatric desex is significantly
safer than good old-fashioned pubertal S/N.
.
Young pups [8 to 14-WO] heal faster, bleed less, scar less, recover & rebound faster,
& are under G-A for a shorter time than their older pubertal conspecifics; they suffer
fewer complications, too. These are all good things, when considering any potential
surgery.
Of course, for this particular pup, that's a moot point - she's too old. ;--D
.
.
.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Your argument would hold water if this was a forum for professionals used to using specific jargon, it is not.


The point is that what is "early" to one sector of the population is "average" for another and "late" for another.

Communication is all about using vocabulary suited to the context.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Hi Sam, I also have a Jack x Chi. He too gets really 'bossy' and kinda 'tells off' small dogs and puppies. I don't know why he does it.
He isn't like this with big dogs...

I don't really let him go and see other dogs anyway, I call him back to me if we see another dog as I think people and their dogs deserve space unless they say otherwise.

When he sees another dog, he will either do his 'down stay' or come back and sit at my side for a treat. I just avoid them as I'm quite an unsociable walker anyway lol He has a few dog friends, he doesn't need to like them all.


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Hi Sam, I also have a Jack x Chi. He too gets really 'bossy' and kinda 'tells off' small dogs and puppies. I don't know why he does it.
> He isn't like this with big dogs...
> 
> I don't really let him go and see other dogs anyway, I call him back to me if we see another dog as I think people and their dogs deserve space unless they say otherwise.
> ...


Hi Muttly, thankyou for your post. I have been following the advice of Sweetly this week, which is much like yours. Now when we meet other dogs I just walk on with Daisy, and she has not really been interested in saying hello, and walks on happily. Poppy loves meeting other dogs, so I let her for 20 seconds or so and then call her on too. It is working. It seems that Daisy just isn't into the 'meet and greet' with dogs, although she loves saying hello to other humans! I was worried about it because as a young pup she was just like Poppy - loving meeting new dogs and then she just changed. But it seems I was over thinking it, Daisy grew up a bit and decided she wasn't into that. It doesn't seem any more complicated then that!


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Well, personally, I wait until three months after the first season to have a bitch spayed. My Vet won't spay before a bitch has had a season.
> 
> It may be best to have a chat and see what your vet advises.
> 
> ...


Hi Sweety

Just thought I would let you know that I have been following your advice this week and it has totally worked! We pass other dogs and their owners and me and Daisy just walk on. I let Poppy say hello for 20 seconds or so and then call her on too. Daisy has had the odd sniff, but has not displayed any aggressive behaviour, as she sees me walking on and just trots off after me. It seems like she is happier now because meeting other dogs is on her terms, before I could spend 5 mins talking to the other owners about the pups, and Daisy didn't like this, now if she wants to stop and say hello she will, but she doesn't HAVE to. So simple! Thankyou so much for your feedback, saved me a lot of money on a dog behaviourist!!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Hi Sam.

I'm so pleased you're feeling more positive and that what you're doing is working for you and Daisy.

Thanks very much for the update.


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## sam buchanan (Jan 16, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Hi Sam.
> 
> I'm so pleased you're feeling more positive and that what you're doing is working for you and Daisy.
> 
> Thanks very much for the update.


Also I have decided to wait until after their first season before getting them spayed. I have read a lot around this issue and, as you say, there is much debate! I went to my vet, but couldn't get to speak to the vet, the veterinary nurses told me that it was their policy to spay at 6 months, when I tried to talk about the issues around development, they said "well it's your dog, your choice but our policy is 6 months" not very helpful! But my gut tells me with everything I have read, to wait. I don't want to interrupt the growing/development stage by cutting out some of the organs that are crucial to that. And until the first season happens, how can you know that that stage is complete?!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

sam buchanan said:


> Also I have decided to wait until after their first season before getting them spayed. I have read a lot around this issue and, as you say, there is much debate! I went to my vet, but couldn't get to speak to the vet, the veterinary nurses told me that it was their policy to spay at 6 months, when I tried to talk about the issues around development, they said "well it's your dog, your choice but our policy is 6 months" not very helpful! But my gut tells me with everything I have read, to wait. I don't want to interrupt the growing/development stage by cutting out some of the organs that are crucial to that. And until the first season happens, how can you know that that stage is complete?!


I think that's a wise decision Sam.

I believe the majority of Vets these days prefer the bitch to have had at least one season. For a small breed, my Vets like to spay three months after the first season.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I think if you plan to have your bitches spayed around the 15 month mark you should be good


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

sam buchanan said:


> Also I have decided to wait until after their first season before getting them spayed. I have read a lot around this issue and, as you say, there is much debate! I went to my vet, but couldn't get to speak to the vet, the veterinary nurses told me that it was their policy to spay at 6 months, when I tried to talk about the issues around development, they said "well it's your dog, your choice but our policy is 6 months" not very helpful! But my gut tells me with everything I have read, to wait. I don't want to interrupt the growing/development stage by cutting out some of the organs that are crucial to that. And until the first season happens, how can you know that that stage is complete?!


Maybe the policy of 6 months means they prefer the dog to be at least 6 months, rather than it has to be done at 6 months, regardless?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

sam buchanan said:


> Hi Muttly, thankyou for your post. I have been following the advice of Sweetly this week, which is much like yours. Now when we meet other dogs I just walk on with Daisy, and she has not really been interested in saying hello, and walks on happily. Poppy loves meeting other dogs, so I let her for 20 seconds or so and then call her on too. It is working. It seems that Daisy just isn't into the 'meet and greet' with dogs, although she loves saying hello to other humans! I was worried about it because as a young pup she was just like Poppy - loving meeting new dogs and then she just changed. But it seems I was over thinking it, Daisy grew up a bit and decided she wasn't into that. It doesn't seem any more complicated then that!


Oh great!  I'm so glad that it really was that simple! Muttly really really loves all humans too lol, That took a little while to get him to ignore them, but again he now does unless them come over and want to fuss him.
I think you are wise regarding the spay. We have had a few large breed bitches and always always stuck to the rule of after first season. With Muttly I just waited until he was 18 months, as I read this is when small breeds should be fully mature.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
apparently by asking for accurate terminology, i've revealed my true colors:
"pedantic & petty", would those be apropos adjectives?... :-D Thhpppt,
Smokey - accuracy does matter, & we DO bl**dy well need to use terms
with common [meaning 'mutually agreed'] definitions if we hope to be able
to _COMMUNICATE._
_If we use vague sloppy terms with different meanings to one another, we_
_do not & can not communicate._
.
.
Also, cat-breeders [even in the UK] seem to be a couple of light-years ahead
of dog-breeders, & when cat-breeders say _"early spay" _or _"early neuter" _or
_"early desex", _they are referring to *PEDIATRIC DESEX or pediatric S/N.*
.
And blessedly, cat-breeders don't waffle on about how "6-mos (or 9-mos or
12-mos or 18-mos or 24-mos) might be too early", depending upon some
idiosyncratic factor such as average wt at adulthood, coat color, breed, or
whatever other possible splittable hair there might be.
Early desex is 12-WO & under - it's very straightforward, no-one can pos-
sibly misunderstand or misconstrue.
.
I think dog-breeders - & for that matter, owners - would do well to emulate
the example of cat-breeders: Use specific terms with mutually agreed defi-
nitions.  Cheers!
.
.
.


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