# irish staffs? is there such a thing?



## vikki (Jan 3, 2008)

i want to know if anybody out there have hard of an irish staffordshire bull terrier? there ae lot own my way and the owners say oh yes he's an 'irish staff'. but according to a lot of sites they are no such breed and that they are actually a pit bull or form of new devil dog.


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

I was told by a bloke in Ireland that they are registered with the IKC as normal staffs but they have pit bull blood in them. Aparently they are larger than our English staff so easily recognised over here. I personally thought it was just a name they gave pit bulls and their crosses to allow them in this country 
Hope someone else can put us both straight on this one


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> This is my personal opinion here...
> 
> I have always believed the name Irish Staff was given to the AmPBT after the breed was banned...
> 
> ...


Ahh, think I was right then!


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

i was told they are eng bulls cross staffys?????


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

Irish staffs are not a breed but a "breed type"
They are not recognised by any offical registration body and IKC is a registery run by Ed Reid,not the Irish Kennel Club as some think.Although IKC does stand for Irish kennel club and no the Irish Staff is not recognised by them either.

They are leaner and taller than your SBT,most are used to do weight pulling and those sort of events.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Irish staffs are not a breed but a "breed type"
> They are not recognised by any offical registration body and IKC is a registery run by Ed Reid,not the Irish Kennel Club as some think.Although IKC does stand for Irish kennel club and no the Irish Staff is not recognised by them either.
> 
> They are leaner and taller than your SBT,most are used to do weight pulling and those sort of events.


i was trying to think of ed reids name the other day as it goes...i used to buy leads and collars of him years ago when i had my first recue bullys.

so wat exactly are they sally??? just taller staffys???


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> i was trying to think of ed reids name the other day as it goes...i used to buy leads and collars of him years ago when i had my first recue bullys.
> 
> so wat exactly are they sally??? just taller staffys???


They were bred from KC Reg SBT's with some Bull Terrier in there I think,just taller and leaner than your SBT.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> They were bred from KC Reg SBT's with some Bull Terrier in there I think,just taller and leaner than your SBT.


Yer thats wat i was told, that they are staffs wiv ebt.


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> Take a look at this google image of an I.S, now does that say AmPBT to you because it does me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 They're nothing like our staffs are they.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> They're nothing like our staffs are they.


Have to admit..they are ratha pitbull looking...but saying that i have seen some where u can clearly see some ebt in there...its mad.


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> I was told by a bloke in Ireland that they are registered with the IKC as normal staffs but they have pit bull blood in them. Aparently they are larger than our English staff so easily recognised over here. I personally thought it was just a name they gave pit bulls and their crosses to allow them in this country
> Hope someone else can put us both straight on this one





sallyanne said:


> Irish staffs are not a breed but a "breed type"
> They are not recognised by any offical registration body and IKC is a registery run by Ed Reid,not the Irish Kennel Club as some think.Although IKC does stand for Irish kennel club and no the Irish Staff is not recognised by them either.
> 
> They are leaner and taller than your SBT,most are used to do weight pulling and those sort of events.


So it what I said sally, they are registered with the IKC (Irish Kennel Club) as normal staffs. They are a breed type but this breed type originates from Ireland and most are registered with the Irish Kennel Club. Yes?


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> Have to admit..they are ratha pitbull looking...but saying that i have seen some where u can clearly see some ebt in there...its mad.


Not keen on them myself.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> Not keen on them myself.


There not the best looking bullys are they  i myself prefur the more stocky bully, their to leggy for me.


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> There not the best looking bullys are they  i myself prefur the more stocky bully, their to leggy for me.


Yeah exactly, they just dont look right.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> So it what I said sally, they are registered with the IKC (Irish Kennel Club) as normal staffs. They are a breed type but this breed type originates from Ireland and most are registered with the Irish Kennel Club. Yes?


No,
Most are registered with ed reids registry,they are not recognised by any KC including the Irish one.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> I still stand by first post on this subject...
> 
> btw Sal, i heard someone mention today they had a King Stafford...


Lol 

We hear all sorts of names there called,they are SBT's pure and simple


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> This is my personal opinion here...
> 
> I have always believed the name Irish Staff was given to the AmPBT after the breed was banned...
> 
> ...


If you look on the website regarding dangerous/banned dogs, it is also on the KC website where it states that the Irish Staff is another name for the AMPBT.

I am not saying I'm right either but I wouldn't risk owning an Irish Staff.

Sue


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> exactly...
> 
> Only the kings are over sized...
> 
> do you think they are crossed with something to increase size


We get throw backs from time to time and height in SBT's has always been a bit of a grey area.
The standard used to be 16-18 inches,then it was dropped to 14-16 inches.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

sskmick said:


> If you look on the website regarding dangerous/banned dogs, it is also on the KC website where it states that the Irish Staff is another name for the AMPBT.
> 
> I am not saying I'm right either but I wouldn't risk owning an Irish Staff.
> 
> Sue


Why????.....


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

This whats on the KC's site
Dangerous Dogs advice for owners
12-Feb-07

Dangerous Dogs Amnesty Advice

Following the recent spate of dangerous dog amnesties which are taking place around the country, the Kennel Club has issued the following advice to worried pit bull or pit bull type dog owners.

Owning a pit bull type dog is illegal under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. 
If you live in an amnesty area and are willing to hand your dog over to the Police during the amnesty period, you will not be prosecuted for owning an illegal dog but your dog will be put down. 
You do not have to hand your dog over to the Police. 
If you do not hand your dog over to the Police then they could get a warrant to seize your dog. However they cannot enter your premises without a warrant. 
If your dog is seized by the police, they cannot put your dog down unless you consent to this. If you do not consent, then court proceedings will begin. It is unclear whether legal aid would be available to you. This depends on the Section of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 under which the Police seize the dog. 
Dangerous Dogs Court Proceedings

If proceedings are taken against you even if you have a pit bull terrier type dog then provided your dog is not a danger to public safety, you have a reasonable chance of avoiding a destruction order being made against your dog.

If you are a responsible dog owner and your dog is a well trained family dog then it is likely that the court would not order your dog to be destroyed and you may not be prosecuted. 
Your pit bull or pit bull type dog would be placed on a Register called the Index of Exempted Dogs. Your dog would have to be kept on a lead and muzzled in public places; your dog would have to be micro-chipped and neutered. This would allow you to continue to keep the dog and not face prosecution in the future. 
Staffordshire Bull Terrier Owner Advice

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is not listed as part of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 and therefore you should face no threat of having your dog seized by the police.

If you believe you have an Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier then it is possible you have a pit bull type dog and will face the same threat of seizure and prosecution as pit bull dog owners. 

Information for those wishing to object to breed specific legislation
If you wish to write to politicians about breed specific legislation then these facts may be of use.

Genetics and Behaviour

Genetics (breed) plays only a part in the temperament of an individual dog and scientific studies from around the world show that environment probably has a far greater effect. A large percentage of dog biting incidents are due to the irresponsible actions of owners, who have either not taken the time and trouble to train their dog correctly, or have indeed trained them to behave aggressively. Consequently any legislation based on genetics that ignores the influence of the dogs keeper on its behaviour is likely to be ineffective.

Enforcement

Breed specific legislation is unworkable. In England the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 has failed to prevent a large number of dog attacks and has cost the Police millions of pounds in kennelling associated costs.

Welfare Implications

From a welfare perspective, it is concerning that dogs that have not shown any signs of aggression could end up being put to sleep or being remanded in police kennels.

Rumours about Lock Jaw in Pit Bull Terrier Type Dogs

Scientific research has proven that the pit bull terrier and related breeds are physiologically no different from any other breed of dog. Dr Lehr Brisbin and colleagues at the University of Georgia have shown that there is nothing in the skeletal structure of the pit bull terrier jaw that is any different from that of any other dog in respect to locking. 

Contacts
England:

X MP
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA

Minister Jonathan Shaw MP
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State
Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra)
Nobel House
17 Smith Square
London SW1P 3JR

Ireland

Minister Gormley
Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government
Custom House
Dublin 1

Mr Brendan Hayden/Mr Micheal ONeill/Cllr Kevin Humphreys
Dublin City Council 
Civic Offices
Wood Quay
Dublin 8

Scotland

Minister Richard Lochhead MSP
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh EH99 1SP


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> No,
> Most are registered with ed reids registry,they are not recognised by any KC including the Irish one.


Sally, staffordshire bull terriers are registered with the english kennel club and the Irish kennel club 
Im talking about the breed type as you said, not them being registered as 'irish staffs'.
I have been informed that registered staffs can be refered to as 'irish' due to them being taller than the breed standard allows.


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## vikki (Jan 3, 2008)

Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier Association . if you type thisin google it comes up with a page all about them etc


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

bullbreeds said:


> Sally, staffordshire bull terriers are registered with the english kennel club and the Irish kennel club
> Im talking about the breed type as you said, not them being registered as 'irish staffs'.
> I have been informed that registered staffs can be refered to as 'irish' due to them being taller than the breed standard allows.


which is what i thought??


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

garryd said:


> which is what i thought??


From what ive been told the Irish staff is just a type, taller and leaner and any registered staff can be referred to as 'Irish' if they fit the bill. 
They are not registered with the Irish or English kennel club as 'Irish staffs' though. They are still just staffordshire bull terriers.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

Most are only registered with the SIBTC or IKC,IKC been Ed Reids registery,if they are registered with the KC or Irish Kennel Club then they are SBT's pure and simple.
Most are without any offical KC documentation so therefore can't be registered only with the SIBTC or IKC (Ed Reids)

We hear all sorts of names thrown around,Irish Staffords are not a breed,they are a breed type usually bred to the original standard 1937 for the stafford.Anyone breeding away from todays standard could be treading on very dangerous ground regarding the DDA.
This is another reason I personally wouldn't touch a SBT without papers.


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## PoppyLily (Jan 8, 2008)

Hi Everyone

My partner and I bought a staffy puppy 18 months ago. He wasnt registered but we were told that he was a full staffy. A couple of months later we started noticing that he was slightly taller than your average staffy. We happen to know a guy called Bob who runs the Northen Staffy Rescue Centre. He had a look at him and told us that he was an Irish Staffy. He told us this is a hybrid of the SBT. I dont know how true this is or if such thing even exists. There are a lot of different opinions. 
I do know however that Naz (thats our dog) is the most loving dog ever and has all the traits of a staffy and i wouldnt change him for the world. 
I have tried to add some pics, one is showing but for the other you will need to click the link.



http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd201/naz_mia/Doggies092.jpg


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> Why????.....


These laws DDL and BSL means that any dog that is deemed to have specific characteristics to a banned breed can be confiscated.

Whilst I posted something similar on a different thread I was re-assured that it was unlikely Staffies will ever become a listed breed.

I don't know what I'd do if it happened. I love little legs as everyone loves their dog(s) the thought of losing them to the authorities doesn't bear thinking about.

Sue


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> I have never seen it on the kc web site, however i truely believe that is the case...


The KC wrote an article to the effect that AMPBTs and Irish Staffs should not be confused with the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, if my memory serves me correctly the SBT was prefix with English but I am not certain.

This information may now be out of date.

Sue


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

PoppyLily said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> My partner and I bought a staffy puppy 18 months ago. He wasnt registered but we were told that he was a full staffy. A couple of months later we started noticing that he was slightly taller than your average staffy. We happen to know a guy called Bob who runs the Northen Staffy Rescue Centre. He had a look at him and told us that he was an Irish Staffy. He told us this is a hybrid of the SBT. I dont know how true this is or if such thing even exists. There are a lot of different opinions.
> I do know however that Naz (thats our dog) is the most loving dog ever and has all the traits of a staffy and i wouldnt change him for the world.
> ...


They are both fabulous dogs - great pictures. I can't answer your question as to whether he is an Irish Staff but who cares he's gorgeous.

Mine SBT isn't registered either I saw both parents and basically we were told that he was about £100 cheaper because he wasn't registered. We didn't mind not having papers, we don't intend to show him or breed him.

The major downside that I didn't realise is that the KC will only register a litter every other year or so (not sure exactly). Duke's mother was only 2 years old and had had several previous litters.

I can't be 100% sure Duke is a full Staffie but he's all white for me. 

Sue


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## PoppyLily (Jan 8, 2008)

Hi Sue, 
I totally agree!! It doesnt matter to me that he isnt registered or even if he isnt a full staff. Hes my babe and i wouldnt change him for anything.


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## Dawny (Nov 26, 2007)

In Liverpool 'Irish Staff' is a nickname for Pit Bull.


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## clairemac9 (Jan 14, 2008)

sskmick said:


> They are both fabulous dogs - great pictures. I can't answer your question as to whether he is an Irish Staff but who cares he's gorgeous.
> 
> Mine SBT isn't registered either I saw both parents and basically we were told that he was about £100 cheaper because he wasn't registered. We didn't mind not having papers, we don't intend to show him or breed him.
> 
> ...


omg he is lush, what a sweety you are duke


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

clairemac9 said:


> omg he is lush, what a sweety you are duke


Hi Clair,

The photo I think you are referring is Kelsie's beautiful dog.

My dog Duke is predominately white.

Sue


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## HandsOnPaws (Apr 18, 2008)

I was incensed to see Irish staffi pups for sale on the Pets at Home noticeboard on friday. I informed the clueless staff that they were advertising illegal dogs for sale,and irish staff was code for pit bull. It even had pics of the parents!

I had to point out the differences in their little breed folder  They did remove it but it really irks me that they allow anyone to put up ads in there, and the staff just don't know enough about the subject.


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## shakka (May 20, 2008)

your wrong staffs were once taller before the kc got hold of em if you go back in time.then they were bred smaller and more stocky for showing.irish staffs are blue and are not another name for american staffs.american staffs come in all colours and are another name for pits most pits have pink noses learn your stuff or keep it shut is my suggestion.

the Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino and Fila Braziliero
are all uk banned dogs 

no amstaff there or irish.Lots of irish have been taken to court and all thier dogs returned FACT.

yes some people register pits as amstaffs but not irish irish are blues.

please know what your talking about before you talk total crap and pets at home have every right to advertize irish so i will be getting onto them too
anything advertized as red nose definatly are pits and sometime old thyme also but not always.

the black staff you were told was an irish most definatly is not i am very expierenced in this and it proboblly is pure just as they used to be taller and got coverted they are slowly being converted back ie taller.........


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

shakka said:


> your wrong staffs were once taller before the kc got hold of em if you go back in time.then they were bred smaller and more stocky for showing.irish staffs are blue and are not another name for american staffs.american staffs come in all colours and are another name for pits most pits have pink noses learn your stuff or keep it shut is my suggestion.
> 
> the Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino and Fila Braziliero
> are all uk banned dogs
> ...


You know your stuff really,you could have fooled me,Irish Staffords come in all colours not just blues.
The SBT was first registered with the KC in 1935,the first breed standard was also in 1935,not much has really changed with the breed standard apart from the height droping,the original stated dogs from 15-18 inches,
It has been changed twice since then with more added into it,again in 1948 and again in 1987.
The KC do not set the standard for any breed,that is down to the Breed Clubs and Breeders who have years of knowlege and experience!

Breeders that are breeding today are breeding or at least should be breeding to the standard,if you don't like the standard set for the breed,don't buy one!


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## shakka (May 20, 2008)

sorry should have read irish are mainly blues (today) and i know at least 10 staffs over 19 inches that are on my books that ive seen the kc papers for.People are changing the breed again.The black dog is deffo not irish i have seen many many as well as pits etc irish are most definatly not pits as someone suggested and were origionally bred by the irish for fighting.


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

shakka said:


> sorry should have read irish are mainly blues (today) and i know at least 10 staffs over 19 inches that are on my books that ive seen the kc papers for.People are changing the breed again.The black dog is deffo not irish i have seen many many as well as pits etc irish are most definatly not pits as someone suggested and were origionally bred by the irish for fighting.


Well there not bred to any standard then are they?
As far as I'm concerned the breed hasn't changed and isn't changing again,not sure where your getting your info from 
Good Breeders are breeding to the standard,they are not breeding taller dogs!

Who knows what an irish should look like they also have a standard,two infact both are different,they are not much different to that of the SBT,I've yet to see a good example of an irish,they don't conform to neither standard.


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## shakka (May 20, 2008)

if anything the irish was part of making a pit but most definatly not a pit

Origin
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier was developed in the region of Staffordshire, England in the nineteenth century from crosses between Bulldogs and various Terriers. The Staffordshire Bull was developed for the then-popular sport of bull baiting. The breed's popularity waned as interest in the sport waned. Irish breeders then attempted to create a taller and leaner type of dog that could be used primarily for dog fighting. When dog fighting was banned the breed became rare although it is becoming more and more popular now. These days the breed is used mainly as pets however there are some owners who use the breed for jumping and weight pulling competition as athletics is where this breed excels. The Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier is not a dog for every family, but in the hands of a dominant, experienced owner; it can be a successful pet and family guardian.The irish took them to america and the usa breeders mixed with bulldogs and terriers made the pit with increased size and weight and a larger head


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

shakka said:


> if anything the irish was part of making a pit but most definatly not a pit
> 
> Origin
> The Staffordshire Bull Terrier was developed in the region of Staffordshire, England in the nineteenth century from crosses between Bulldogs and various Terriers. The Staffordshire Bull was developed for the then-popular sport of bull baiting. The breed's popularity waned as interest in the sport waned. Irish breeders then attempted to create a taller and leaner type of dog that could be used primarily for dog fighting. When dog fighting was banned the breed became rare although it is becoming more and more popular now. These days the breed is used mainly as pets however there are some owners who use the breed for jumping and weight pulling competition as athletics is where this breed excels. The Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier is not a dog for every family, but in the hands of a dominant, experienced owner; it can be a successful pet and family guardian.The irish took them to america and the usa breeders mixed with bulldogs and terriers made the pit with increased size and weight and a larger head


You should really quote your source when copy and pasting


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## shakka (May 20, 2008)

puggy little nose squashed up faced sbt's are not breed standard either but because the kc say they are then they are.My whole point is irish are not pits
so dont brandish them with it.
many am staffs are pits 

many are not

and staffs now on kc papers are over 19 inches


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## shakka (May 20, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> You should really quote your source when copy and pasting


no need its my site i know where it came from ty


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

Alan is correct, you must either re-write in your own words or quote the source of the information and where possible have the permission of the author.

thank you fot your cooperation


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## shakka (May 20, 2008)

im right i dont need permission its mine


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

shakka said:


> puggy little nose squashed up faced sbt's are not breed standard either but because the kc say they are then they are.My whole point is irish are not pits
> so dont brandish them with it.
> many am staffs are pits
> 
> ...


Rubbish!!!
I've yet to see a puggy little nose squashed up faced sbt's as you put it.
The SBT's are bred to standard,as I said before the KC doesn't set the standard,Breeders and Breed Clubs do,those with many years experience.

Irish is not a breed,not recognised by any offical registration body.
Seems you have a problem with SBT's bred to the breed standard.Anyone breeding away from this and calling them irish or whatever could be treading dangerous ground in the current climate.


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

shakka said:


> im right i dont need permission its mine


we were not aware that it was your own site hence the posts, we have to be careful of copy write infringement I'm sure you understand


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

shakka said:


> im right i dont need permission its mine


So where did you get the info from to put on your site?


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

shakka said:


> no need its my site i know where it came from ty


This is your site? Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier Information and Pictures, Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

Check out the link,word for word under origin 
Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier Information and Pictures, Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers


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## lalala (May 14, 2008)

I think that a Staffordshire bull terrier is exactly that and the dogs called irish staff,American staff etc all have some thing else mixed in there.Cant take away they look good but they aint pure staffs.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

dh.dti said:


> WTF...
> 
> It sounds to me like the only thing you have experience in, is talking out of your rear...


LOL at you what I thought but I was too Polite


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

dh.dti said:


> WTF...
> 
> It sounds to me like the only thing you have experience in, is talking out of your rear...


lool

Irish Staff AKA PITBULL

idiotic breeders only call them Irish Staffs to try and get passed the dangerous dog act.... *FACT*!


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## Fade to Grey (Nov 10, 2007)

dh.dti said:


> The only people who will not accept this as fact are the keepers/breeders of so called Irish Staffs...
> 
> I love the Ampbt breed an old family friend bred them years ago (when legal) they were great dogs every one of them.
> I was also offered one in my teens due to a marriage split, if i hadn't had an Akita & an Sbt at that time i would have had her in a shot.
> ...


aww.

the thing is all dogs can be dangerous in the wrong hands so maybe they should get rid of the dangerous dog act and have a dangerous owner list


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> The only people who will not accept this as fact are the keepers/breeders of so called Irish Staffs...
> 
> I love the Ampbt breed an old family friend bred them years ago (when legal) they were great dogs every one of them.
> I was also offered one in my teens due to a marriage split, if i hadn't had an Akita & an Sbt at that time i would have had her in a shot.
> ...


I got a PM of this so called Bull Breed Person,saying I only had owned one dog,where as his family had owned lots of bull breeds,he owns agility and show Champions but he's not going to reveal his site - surely you would be proud to show off your dogs having gained titles.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> I got a PM of this so called Bull Breed Person,saying I only had owned one dog,where as his family had owned lots of bull breeds,he owns agility and show Champions but he's not going to reveal his site - surely you would be proud to show off your dogs having gained titles.


hmmmm it is not often you would have a bullbreed agility champion so yes you would think he would really want to brag about it


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## Guest (May 23, 2008)

A friend of ours recently brought an Irish Stafford puppy. Out of interest I asked to see the pups papers and was amazed to see that the dogs within the first five generations are K.C reg Staffords. 
So either the papers are forged (which I doubt) or they have a reasonably well bred puppy.
I've always had my doubts as far as the Irish Stafford is concerned and I am still researching pedigree names off that pups papers. There is one dog that I cannot place or find and have been told by a few within the circles that I mix in that it was a Pit Bull but this dog goes back into the 6th generation. So far it is the only dog I cannot find any 'solid' information on. As I say I am still researching some of the dogs names on the pedigree and trying to go as far back as I can. I'll post again when I have any more information.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I've really enjoyed reading this thread - dont know anyone with an Irish Staff or a Pitbull -never met one in 'real life' so it would be wrong to comment either way but the threads been really interesting to read


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## Guest (May 24, 2008)

shakka said:


> your wrong staffs were once taller before the kc got hold of em if you go back in time.then they were bred smaller and more stocky for showing.irish staffs are blue and are not another name for american staffs.american staffs come in all colours and are another name for pits most pits have pink noses learn your stuff or keep it shut is my suggestion.
> 
> the Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino and Fila Braziliero
> are all uk banned dogs
> ...


A lot of people on this thread are having their say but don't really know what they are going on about! Like i Have said before on here,i have owed APB Terriers back when you could own them in the 1990s ,Back then the place where everybody bought them from was from the underground Magazine "The Pitt bull news" this was where most of the good lines came from via the states! 
But then in the early part of the 90s they was banned due to a string of attacks! From then on anything considered being a Pitt bull was Tattooed,muzzled in public, and to kill off the breed all dogs and bitches was to be neutered and castrated!
I don't think that the APBTs we are seeing nowa days are anything as good as those 1990s dogs IMO! 
Instead they are like poor examples of staffs!
Ya see i always remember my APBT as big if not bigger than my dads EBTS !
I don't know what all this BS is about red noses
For me a Irish staffs is just slang for a badly bred staff!
One of the top breeders of APBT i used to know is now behined bars as are a lot of those breeders from back in the day!
If you wanna know anything about APBT just ask


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Why is he behind bars Garry?? 

The DDA was thrown together after the attack on Rukhsana Khan - a six year old living in Bradford. Its a shame that the dogs suffer in all this - I hate it when people who clearly have a Pit are in the papers crying because the authorities have taken away their dog and are going to PTS. We dont like many many laws but they are there and we have to abide by them - why get a dog that you know is banned and then moan about it when you are found out and the dog seized!! At the end of the day, as per usual, its the dogs that pay the ultimate price.


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## Guest (May 24, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Why is he behind bars Garry??
> 
> The DDA was thrown together after the attack on Rukhsana Khan - a six year old living in Bradford. Its a shame that the dogs suffer in all this - I hate it when people who clearly have a Pit are in the papers crying because the authorities have taken away their dog and are going to PTS. We dont like many many laws but they are there and we have to abide by them - why get a dog that you know is banned and then moan about it when you are found out and the dog seized!! At the end of the day, as per usual, its the dogs that pay the ultimate price.


Trouble is alot of stafford crosses and cross breeds have fallen victim to the DDA purely based on looks,not the behaviour of the dog.KC Reg Staffords have also been victims.
When people buy a cross breed as a puppy they have no idea how it will turn out.

Thank god for the amendment won in 1997,so if a dog is now seized by the authorities owners can go to court to prove the dog is not dangerous and it will be added to the index of exempted dogs.

I destest BSL,it's unfair, unjust, and does nothing to "protect the public"


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I know exactly what you're saying Sallyanne - but the DDA was never about the behaviour of the dogs was it. The whole of a breed were blamed for that one attack - after all thats where it stemmed from - but I have to say the government do seem to have learned form their mistake. I know this wont help the Pitbulls now but if they'd have had the same knee jerk rection then Rotts would be long gone and EBT.
As you say if people keep crossing out of their breed then parentage cannot be proven and everyone with a bull breed 'type' is walking a tight rope - who knows when the police might just pull up alongside you one day and say that dog looks Pit to me and thats enough for them to seize the dog. And with the state of how some of them have been kept in kennels for months I wouldnt blame owners who prefer to have their pets PTS rather than have them kept in [email protected] conditions and probably come back traumatized from their experiences.


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## Guest (May 24, 2008)

Exactly Jo,
The DDA was rushed through after a spate of attacks on children,to "protect the public"
Trouble is 85 % of attacks happen on Private Property which the act does not legislate for,so therefore does not protect the public or children.
Crossbreeds are and will always be here but anyone deliberatly breeding bull breed crosses are I believe asking for trouble,the same with breeding away from the current standard for SBT's ,it's a dangerous and stupid thing to do.

The DDA has failed,is unworkable and unenforceable,it is extremely easy to bring a pitt into the UK,as was seen in a BBC documentary last year.
It's time after 16 years of Bulls*t legislation to rethink and bring in laws that will cover ALL BREEDS and make owners responsible for there dogs actions.
It's time the Police and courts applied sentences of Murder,Manslaughter, ABH etc....
As for the Pitt,they are a super breed,but would I like to see them legal in the UK,As I much as I destest BSL and will continue to fight on,I would like them to stay banned within the UK,they are a breed that are abused and neglected.

the pit bull problem (what is man without the beasts?) - flash


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## Guest (May 24, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Why is he behind bars Garry??
> 
> .


Turned out Jo he got in to dog fighting some years latter! For the record i dont condone dog fighting,he was just a guy we all knew that bred and sold pure bred APBTs ! if you wanted a nice dog he was the man to go and see! but thats when he just bred them and didnt fight them,like i said in later years he was convicted of fighting them
His name was Ian Draper,here below is a big write up about him!
Across Britain, a clandestine world of cruelty lives on | UK news | The Guardian


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## RebeccaArmstrong (May 23, 2008)

Hi, my neighbour has an Irish Staff and he is beautiful ... he lives with a yorkshire terrier (who is very yappy) yet he never touches her .. When my staff is outside he looks through the gap in the fence and the yorkie goes crazy barking and growling whereas the Irish Staff just wags his tail!!

When you go up to the dog he is loving and friendly .. he is a big dog so as with any powerful breed he can seem a little intimidating but he is certainly not!! He is friendly to everyone...

I think this yet again demonstrates that it is not the breed it is the deed... it is more likely that you would get bit by the Yorkie than the irish staff!! 

It really annoys me when people stereotype a breed ..... its just another form of prejudice in the world!!!!!


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## Guest (May 24, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> This is your site? Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier Information and Pictures, Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers


Nope that is not the site he/she was referring too.
But it's a small world out there,and whilst I was visiting a bull breed site tonight I came accross the username Shakka,so decided to look at the profile and hey presto the link to their website was there,
There is a page on "Irish Staffords" and it has been taken from that site at a guess as it is word for word.
They have been into bull breeds for around 13 yrs and no Champion show or otherwise is mentioned.
So me thinks someone is living in cloud cuckoo land


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

*chuckles to self*

Tis a small world Sallyanne - the truth will out


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## Guest (May 24, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> So me thinks someone is living in cloud cuckoo land


.......


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## lil-angel89 (Sep 2, 2008)

vikki said:


> i want to know if anybody out there have hard of an irish staffordshire bull terrier? there ae lot own my way and the owners say oh yes he's an 'irish staff'. but according to a lot of sites they are no such breed and that they are actually a pit bull or form of new devil dog.


i have heard of an irish bull terrier as i own one. on his papers its even specifies that he is an irish bull terrier not a staffordshire bull terrier. it is true what they say. he is taller and leaner that staffys and does look a lot like a pitbull. i have even been stopped by the police!! i dont think they are recongnised as a breed as such but the definately do exist. i have heard by a few people they are mostly pit but can get away with being called an irish bull terrier.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

lil-angel89 said:


> on his papers its even specifies that he is an irish bull terrier not a staffordshire bull terrier.


What papers are they?


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

lil-angel89 said:


> i have heard of an irish bull terrier as i own one. on his papers its even specifies that he is an irish bull terrier not a staffordshire bull terrier. it is true what they say. he is taller and leaner that staffys and does look a lot like a pitbull. i have even been stopped by the police!! i dont think they are recongnised as a breed as such but the definately do exist. i have heard by a few people they are mostly pit but can get away with being called an irish bull terrier.


Im sorry hun, but you were well and truely robbed when you bought ur dog, i researched this breed a lot as i wanted one and they are long legged staffies and dont come with papers unless u mean IKC papers and then they are not worth the paper they are written on sorry xx


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## alison (Mar 14, 2008)

Could be SIBTC papers too. Either way they are worthless in most ways and IKC are actually damaging so if IKC, burn them!


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## lil-angel89 (Sep 2, 2008)

Jem85 said:


> Im sorry hun, but you were well and truely robbed when you bought ur dog, i researched this breed a lot as i wanted one and they are long legged staffies and dont come with papers unless u mean IKC papers and then they are not worth the paper they are written on sorry xx


They arnt IKC papers, i havnt got the by me but they are somethin like SIBTC papers and generation papers. i know loads of people who have the same type dog of different breeders and will papers. they arnt long legged staffys and even his book for the vets its stated as a irish bull terrier. xx


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## alison (Mar 14, 2008)

lil-angel89 said:


> They arnt IKC papers, i havnt got the by me but they are somethin like SIBTC papers and generation papers. i know loads of people who have the same type dog of different breeders and will papers. they arnt long legged staffys and even his book for the vets its stated as a irish bull terrier. xx


Irish bull terriers are not a recognised breed. What they actually are normally leads to a heated debate. Imho all theories are right as the "breed" got mixed with not being recognised.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

We used to have a so called Irish staff.. the other name given was a "Sporting staff"

She was sleeker and leggier than the standard staffy.. And could clear a 7' fence and jump out of upstairs windows if she felt like..


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2008)

lil-angel89 said:


> They arnt IKC papers, i havnt got the by me but they are somethin like SIBTC papers and generation papers. i know loads of people who have the same type dog of different breeders and will papers. they arnt long legged staffys and even his book for the vets its stated as a irish bull terrier. xx


Irish staffies are a type not a breed they have longer legs than a normal properly bred staffie, Im sure plenty of people have the same type of dog as u it still doesn't make it a breed. 
Did u even research before you got one?


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## Terrier-Man (Feb 11, 2009)

bullbreeds said:


> They're nothing like our staffs are they.


Then perhaps all thease low size, heavy built, short legged, pure bred American Pit Bull terriers, in the USA, are more like your British kennel club "staffs".


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## maisyjess (Feb 7, 2009)

Sorry, ignore


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## thewasp (Feb 27, 2009)

Eolabeo said:


> Why????.....


if you look back to the original photos of staffordshire bull terriers they were a lot taller,a lot leaner, and a lot less pretty. unfortunately various breeders (for whatever reason) have over the years bred them more compact and more barrel chested. my family have had staffs for over five generations and i have seen photographic proof of how they used to look. every year i see staff puppies getting wider and shorter which takes away more of their natural look . after having had these short stocky versions for years i actually went out to find a staff that was similar to the old style staffie, i found this in my blue brindle staff that is already as big as a fully grown staff yet he is only six months old. he is identical in every way to my old staff from the past only a little longer legged and very slightly leaner. if this is what you are calling an irish staff then so be it but as far as i am concerned he is a staffordshire bull terrier no more no less. as for the answer posted saying Quote: i wouldnt take the risk, thats just ridiculous and very narrow minded (it reminds me of the quote: tarring with the same brush). NO dog is dangerous because of breed, it is down to the owner.and as a nation of dog lovers we should all know this. as for Eolabeo who said they are not the best looking bullys are they, in your eyes maybe not but you see different qualities which maybe i dont if however you researched the staffie back to its earliest recognition into the KC you would see that the likes of CH Gentleman Jim was hardly what you would call good looking would you, but to me he looked like typical staff should look.


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## billysmum (Aug 6, 2010)

I got my dog from a rescue centre about four years ago, when i saw her i fell in love with her instantly, the centre told me she was a staff cross. Not long after i got her there was a programme, i think it was a Tonight one, about banned dogs, it showed some pictures of the "Irish Staff" type, some of them were very similar to the dog which i owned, i was a bit concerned when i heard they were banned. Having searched for pictures of the Irish staff online i have found dogs which are exactly like mine. I hate the fact that people are stereotyping these dogs, i now have a three year old son, and since the day he was born anytime he cried Trixie was right by his side, and at night she would have jumped up on me an put her paw on my shoulder to let me know my son was crying. She is one of the softest most lovable dogs you could meet. Not long ago my son was at my mums and he was running round, next thing i heard was a bark an my son crying, my mums westie had bittin him, so why if a bull breed bites a child it ends up in the headlines while other breeds do it all the time an there is rarely anything said about it. I havent so much as heard my dog growl in the time ive had her an my son tries to climb up on her an can even take her bone out of her mouth. I have since rescued a STB from the same rescue centre, now there is a considerable difference in the height of these two dogs but they do have quite a few similar characteristics. I wish people who havent even owned one of these dogs would stop stereotyping them, i read one post that said they wouldnt even risk owning one, why? It isnt the breed of dog you have to be worried about it is the owner!!!


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

billysmum said:


> I got my dog from a rescue centre about four years ago, when i saw her i fell in love with her instantly, the centre told me she was a staff cross. Not long after i got her there was a programme, i think it was a Tonight one, about banned dogs, it showed some pictures of the "Irish Staff" type, some of them were very similar to the dog which i owned, i was a bit concerned when i heard they were banned. Having searched for pictures of the Irish staff online i have found dogs which are exactly like mine. I hate the fact that people are stereotyping these dogs, i now have a three year old son, and since the day he was born anytime he cried Trixie was right by his side, and at night she would have jumped up on me an put her paw on my shoulder to let me know my son was crying. She is one of the softest most lovable dogs you could meet. Not long ago my son was at my mums and he was running round, next thing i heard was a bark an my son crying, my mums westie had bittin him, so why if a bull breed bites a child it ends up in the headlines while other breeds do it all the time an there is rarely anything said about it. I havent so much as heard my dog growl in the time ive had her an my son tries to climb up on her an can even take her bone out of her mouth. I have since rescued a STB from the same rescue centre, now there is a considerable difference in the height of these two dogs but they do have quite a few similar characteristics. I wish people who havent even owned one of these dogs would stop stereotyping them, i read one post that said they  wouldnt even risk owning one, why? It isnt the breed of dog you have to be worried about it is the owner!!!


Couldn't have put it better myself. :thumbup:


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## simonsays (Apr 29, 2010)

my cousin has one he says hes is an irish blue staff


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Someone I use to know had an blue irish staffie. Their vet told them not to tell anyone that was wwhat she was to say she was a staffie cross as an irish staffie is just another name for a pit bull.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

I am from Ireland and the IKC does not recognise this type. The term Irish Staffie came about only when pit-types were banned it seems. It is often used to label lighter built blue dogs that in other situations may be named Pit Bull or 'of type'.


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## dee o gee (May 21, 2010)

billysmum said:


> I got my dog from a rescue centre about four years ago, when i saw her i fell in love with her instantly, the centre told me she was a staff cross. Not long after i got her there was a programme, i think it was a Tonight one, about banned dogs, it showed some pictures of the "Irish Staff" type, some of them were very similar to the dog which i owned, i was a bit concerned when i heard they were banned. Having searched for pictures of the Irish staff online i have found dogs which are exactly like mine. I hate the fact that people are stereotyping these dogs, i now have a three year old son, and since the day he was born anytime he cried Trixie was right by his side, and at night she would have jumped up on me an put her paw on my shoulder to let me know my son was crying. She is one of the softest most lovable dogs you could meet. Not long ago my son was at my mums and he was running round, next thing i heard was a bark an my son crying, my mums westie had bittin him, so why if a bull breed bites a child it ends up in the headlines while other breeds do it all the time an there is rarely anything said about it. I havent so much as heard my dog growl in the time ive had her an my son tries to climb up on her an can even take her bone out of her mouth. I have since rescued a STB from the same rescue centre, now there is a considerable difference in the height of these two dogs but they do have quite a few similar characteristics. I wish people who havent even owned one of these dogs would stop stereotyping them, i read one post that said they wouldnt even risk owning one, why? It isnt the breed of dog you have to be worried about it is the owner!!!


Maybe I picked it up wrong but the way I read that post was that they wouldn't own one because the leggier 'irish' staff might be mistaken for a pit bull by authorities and therefore be seized, I don't think they were implying it could be aggressive. :confused1: 
Fair play to you for rescueing a staff whatever type it is! :thumbup:


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## Terrier-Man (Feb 11, 2009)

Freyja said:


> Someone I use to know had an blue irish staffie. Their vet told them not to tell anyone that was wwhat she was to say she was a staffie cross as an irish staffie is just another name for a pit bull.


Thats like saying a pit bull is just another name for a Staffie bull Terrier. Look at all the pics of the short legged, barrel chested pit bulls I posted from the USA. They look much more like the KC Staffies,then they do Irish Dogs. The original Staffies were leggy Healthy looking dogs. That was before the KC turned them into pot bellied pigs.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Those stocky pics are prob more American Bullies-like - these are an Am Staff/APBT type that have been developed to be squat and HUGE. Lots of problems associated with the breeding of these though...

american bullies - Google Search

They are not really that classic KC Staffie-like though from a conformation point of view.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

Terrier-Man said:


> Thats like saying a pit bull is just another name for a Staffie bull Terrier. Look at all the pics of the short legged, barrel chested pit bulls I posted from the USA. They look much more like the KC Staffies,then they do Irish Dogs. The original Staffies were leggy Healthy looking dogs. That was before the KC turned them into pot bellied pigs.


completely agree, the original staffy was a big dog


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## broken arrow (Oct 12, 2010)

i have a irish staff with four young children around him daily and he is loved by all the family and a big part of the family ...............dogs r animals repect them


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## Purplejellyfish (Jun 30, 2009)

tashi said:


> hmmmm it is not often you would have a bullbreed agility champion so yes you would think he would really want to brag about it


Why couldn't a bullbreed become an agility champion. My young staffie absolutely loves agility, and is coming on really well! Incidently, there are three other staffies in his class all are a credit to there owners.


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## baz_Jaq (Aug 1, 2010)

Purplejellyfish said:


> Why couldn't a bullbreed become an agility champion. My young staffie absolutely loves agility, and is coming on really well! Incidently, there are three other staffies in his class all are a credit to there owners.


My staffy loves agility and can be very fast (beat some collies and labs at class last week).
Unfortunately he can be a bit of a bull in a china shop due to sheer excitement.

Think we may have a picture in one of our pet forum albums


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