# Unregistered Ragdoll Breeder... Buy or avoid?



## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

Hello everyone,

I am looking to buy a ragdoll kitten. One of my friends put me in touch with the breeder of her kittens, she got them both last year. They are gorgeous looking cats and they have the sweetest personalities. It is what swayed me to want a ragdoll! I have done a lot of research into the breed so I know what to look for and expect.

I am unsure whether to buy a kitten from her. After speaking to the breeder and finding out she is unregistered, she told me she operates her breeding / cattery outside of the GCCF etc. From everything I've read you should avoid unregistered breeders, as you cannot verify if their cats are actually real ragdolls or not (though hers really look and behave like them). She has sent me test certificates for HCM/PKD that show her female cats are free from these genetic diseases, and she also sent me the grandparents tests too... she said she uses two GCCF studs and sent their paperwork to me as well. She said she does this as a hobby, not as her main source of income. The kitten would come to me at 12 weeks old with a vet card, fully vaccinated, wormed and flead with a goodie bag of food and litter. The cost of the kitten is £750.

I am really unsure what to do. The breeder seemed really friendly and knowledgable on the phone. She sent me videos, photos, proof of her cats health. She wasn't pushy to sell at all. My friend also said her house was spotless when she got her kittens last year, and her ragdoll cats really are lovely. They are what persuaded me on this breed.

I am just so confused, as people say to avoid unregistered breeders at all costs... Can you have good unregistered breeders and should I be considering buying a kitten from her or not?


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

Absolutely avoid. If you want a pedigree get one with papers from a reputable breeder


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

£750 for non-pedigree? Do people really pay those prices?


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

MilleD said:


> £750 for non-pedigree? Do people really pay those prices?


People are paying £1500 or more for unregistered ragdolls at the moment


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

Are there any good breeders that operate outside of GCCF etc? She seems to be doing everything right from what I have read (health tests, kittens leave at 12 weeks, vaccinations), even using GCCF studs... just her females aren't registered. Is this really an issue if they are health tested against genetic diseases? I just want a healthy and happy kitten, that looks and behaves like a ragdoll...


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

HannahRose6 said:


> Are there any good breeders that operate outside of GCCF etc? She seems to be doing everything right from what I have read (health tests, kittens leave at 12 weeks, vaccinations), even using GCCF studs... just her females aren't registered. Is this really an issue if they are health tested against genetic diseases? I just want a healthy and happy kitten, that looks and behaves like a ragdoll...


Is she using GCCF studs? Those owners can't care too much either.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Rlouise said:


> People are paying £1500 or more for unregistered ragdolls at the moment


Absolutely ridiculous.


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

Yes, the studs are GCCF registered - she sent me the paperwork but she doesn't own them. Is it not okay to use registered studs with unregistered females? I don't know much about this other than what to/not to look for.


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

MilleD said:


> Absolutely ridiculous.


Tell me about it


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

HannahRose6 said:


> Yes, the studs are GCCF registered - she sent me the paperwork but she doesn't own them. Is it not okay to use registered studs with unregistered females? I don't know much about this other than what to/not to look for.


With all due respect if you knew what to look for you wouldnt be considering an unregistered cat


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

Can someone tell me the exact problem with buying an unregistered cat, if the cats are health tested and all other good procedure is followed (vaccination, worming, kittens are socialised, conditions are clean)... I am not supporting a back yard breeder, she treats her cats very well and my friends cats are beautiful and in perfect health. I haven't really seen in my research why this is a problem, other than you cannot 'prove' the cat is 'x' breed. My dogs aren't KC registered.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

The stud owner is not abiding by GCCF regulations if they are accepting unregistered queens.
No matter what health assurance this breeder is giving you, I would advise you to walk away. Look at breed club websites to find a breeder rather than looking at kitten adverts.
As for not breeding as her source of income, I sincerely doubt that many breeders do. For most of us it's a hobby and an expensive one at that.


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

HannahRose6 said:


> Can someone tell me the exact problem with buying an unregistered cat, if the cats are health tested and all other good procedure is followed (vaccination, worming, kittens are socialised, conditions are clean)... I am not supporting a back yard breeder, she treats her cats very well and my friends cats are beautiful and in perfect health. I haven't really seen in my research why this is a problem, other than you cannot 'prove' the cat is 'x' breed. My dogs aren't KC registered.


Sorry to be annoying, but is there a direct answer to this? If she has the same health test certificates as registered breeders, the only difference is that one has proof of breed and the other doesn't. Does this really make a difference to buying a pet cat that you aren't planning on breeding?


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

Plus the studs she uses are registered GCCF ragdolls.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

It does sound like she's better than the average back yard breeder.
I suppose the question is if she's doing everything else right why did she not buy active registered cats in the first place?


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

Arny said:


> It does sound like she's better than the average back yard breeder.
> I suppose the question is if she's doing everything else right why did she not buy active registered cats in the first place?


This is a good question to ask her, thank you.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

The issue with unregistered breeders is usually they are using cats that were registered as non active. The breeder thought that for whatever reason they shouldn’t be bred from. Also being registered as non active this breeder would have had a contract with the queens breeder that she has broken. If she is willing to break a contract and breed from a cat that was registered not for breeding, will she keep her contract with you?


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

HannahRose6 said:


> Sorry to be annoying, but is there a direct answer to this? If she has the same health test certificates as registered breeders, the only difference is that one has proof of breed and the other doesn't. Does this really make a difference to buying a pet cat that you aren't planning on breeding?


Its encouraging byb, which rarely has health tested parents and the parents are often not the pure breeds they are claim to be. A good breeder will be there as a contact whenever yiu moght need it in the cats life. Most byb wont, once you have the cat, you are on your own, and some byb are horrendous to their buyers and their animals. Please dont encourage this


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

I've just heard back from the breeder, it was a very lengthy message. 

She said she bought her females unregistered, before she realised what registration was. She then decided she would like to breed them after doing a lot of research, seeing her cats good temperaments and looks, and developing a passion for ragdolls. She has done her utmost to do everything right from that point onward, that is why she only uses GCCF studs and follows all the right procedures. She doesn't have active females as she already had 3 females at that point, and it would have meant rehoming some of her existing cats, or trying to live with neutered and intact females. Which all seems reasonable to be honest...

I don't think it's encouraging back yard breeding, I wouldn't call her a back yard breeder. She does everything right, bar registration, her cats aren't neglected. My friend is still in regular contact with her, she also has an instagram and Facebook for support and pictures/videos, so she's not someone who sells her kittens and then abandons the new owners. Surely there are registered breeders who are awful too and it's just a case of being vigilant and 'buyer beware'? I don't really see how I am supporting back yard breeding by purchasing a kitten from this breeder.


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## lenanowa (Apr 15, 2019)

HannahRose6 said:


> Sorry to be annoying, but is there a direct answer to this? If she has the same health test certificates as registered breeders, the only difference is that one has proof of breed and the other doesn't. Does this really make a difference to buying a pet cat that you aren't planning on breeding?


well, that's what she's telling you - that health tests were done, that kittens are brought up right, that she's doing good by them.

If she wanted to do things well, she'd spay those unregistered females and found a nice girl on active register to do things properly.

Why didn't she? Money. She's cutting corners on this, god knows what else she's cutting corners on.

edit: and yes, there are unscrupulous breeders who register kittens too - been there, done that - so this advice is coming from my own experience, because I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I went through. People who breed unregistered kittens are cutting corners by definition, but also avoid kitten mills - registered or not.


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

*well, that's what she's telling you - that health tests were done, that kittens are brought up right, that she's doing good by them.
*
Thats the same with any breeder though?

*If she wanted to do things well, she'd spay those unregistered females and found a nice girl on active register to do things properly.
*
I don't know if I'd feel more comfortable going to a breeder who breeds girls and then re-homes them, though. She's said she already has 3 cats, so another active girl would mean rehoming her other cats, and that neutered and intact cats often don't do well together.

My friends cats are so lovely, and she is so happy with them... I can't really see what the breeder is doing wrong apart from not having registered cats. Everything else is textbook good breeder. I want to know what is so terrible about this because I really don't understand, if everything else is done how it should be.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

HannahRose6 said:


> *well, that's what she's telling you - that health tests were done, that kittens are brought up right, that she's doing good by them.
> *
> Thats the same with any breeder though?
> 
> ...


Unless and until you see the kittens at her home and get a look outside you have no idea if she's s 'textbook good breeder'.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

HannahRose6 said:


> Sorry to be annoying, but is there a direct answer to this? If she has the same health test certificates as registered breeders, the only difference is that one has proof of breed and the other doesn't. Does this really make a difference to buying a pet cat that you aren't planning on breeding?


The problem is, if the cats aren't registered, you have no way to determine if the test results are fake or genuine.

I agree with other members who have said, since she's cutting this corner, what else is she cutting?


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> Unless and until you see the kittens at her home and get a look outside you have no idea if she's s 'textbook good breeder'.


That's true, but I do trust the judgement of my friend who said her house is spotless, and the fact my friends cats are beautiful and healthy. I would never buy a kitten without seeing the home first myself anyway, the same as I went to visit the breeder's home when I got my dogs, who aren't KC registered either. From what I've read and witnessed, there doesn't seem to be as much stigma about getting a non-KC registered dog though? For example, we have a German Shepherd dogs and they aren't KC, but they are widely accepted as German Shepherds... my vet/friends/strangers/on forums people don't tell me I have mongrel dogs.


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

That's a good point, I wouldn't be able to tell if the test results are fake or not. Buying from active stud/female does mean that is guaranteed. Unscrupulous breeders could still forge vet certifications, vaccination records etc. I had one GCCF breeder tell me she doesn't vaccinate her kittens at all as they have allergic reactions and they don't need them as they should be indoors anyway. I guess it's just a matter of trust.


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## Hammystar (Jun 19, 2019)

I have no experience in breeding and I never intend to. I also have two moggies, not pedigree cats. However, I often read posts in the breeding section out of interest and the question that I would be asking is _why_ aren't her females registered? Where did she get them from? If they are not registered then, as I understand it, you cannot be sure they are Ragdolls. Which is fine to a point but it seems you are paying a pedigree price for effectively a non pedigree cat. Would it not be better to wait for a fully registered kitten? Would you pay top notch for a Rolex without the papers? She is making money by calling them something she cant prove they are and to me, that's dishonest.


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## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

Hi I would wait and look for a gccf registered kitten. That is the same price I paid for a registered kitten from a great breeder. My kitten was registered, vaccinated, vet checked, parents health tested and he was also neutered before I brought him home. He came home very well socialised and very confident with a starter pack of litter, food, toys, blankets etc and 5 weeks free insurance.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

HannahRose6 said:


> That's a good point, I wouldn't be able to tell if the test results are fake or not. Buying from active stud/female does mean that is guaranteed. Unscrupulous breeders could still forge vet certifications, vaccination records etc. I had one GCCF breeder tell me she doesn't vaccinate her kittens at all as they have allergic reactions and they don't need them as they should be indoors anyway.* I guess it's just a matter of trust.*


Well no. It's a matter of whether you choose to support back yard breeding or not. At least, from my point of view. You can go to a shelter and find "ragdoll" kittens. You can go to breed rescue and find them too. You don't have to put money into this person's pockets just because your friend did.


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

If 'back yard breeding' didn't happen, ragdoll's wouldn't even exist...

I don't think this is a case of back yard breeding, in my mind they are two separate things. Back yard breeding, where the animals are mistreated, not vaccinated etc. in order to cut as many corners and maximise profits. That isn't what this breeder is doing. She is breeding her cats and following the exact standards that are set by cat governing bodies. I've decided that I am going to buy a kitten from her, she takes good care of her kittens, they are vaccinated, wormed, flead, they are attractive and have lovely personalities, the parents are health tested. She has several mediums that I can contact her via. My friend has nothing bad to say about her cats or her experience with this breeder.

As I said before, my dogs aren't KC registered and nobody calls them 'mongrels' or denies the are German Shepherds. Similar situation to this ragdoll breeder. It is a woman who breeds them out of the KC but does everything right by her dogs. What about all the designer breeds of dogs that are produced at the moment? Cockapoo, cavapoo, maltipoo. None of these dogs would exist as they cannot be KC registered and must be crossbred.

I think the care and treatment for the animals should come above everything else to be honest. I don't see a problem with this, and I don't think the vast, vast majority of regular people do. There are plenty of unscrupulous registered breeders too. I joined a Ragdoll Facebook page a couple of weeks ago and it was full of women bitching and arguing against each other. When I posted about wanting to find a ragdoll, I had several people private message me telling me, 'Don't buy from her, she doesn't vaccinate!' 'Don't buy from her, she used to back yard breed years ago.' 'Don't buy from him, he mixes his litters with unregistered and pretends they are all GCCF!' So yes, it is a matter of trust.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

HannahRose6 said:


> Back yard breeding, where the animals are mistreated, not vaccinated


Byb's breed unregistered cats, as this breeder is.



HannahRose6 said:


> She is breeding her cats and following the exact standards that are set by cat governing bodies.


Except that pesky registration standard.
She has explicitly gone against the breeder of her cats, who registered these cats as not to be bred from. The owner decided to say too bad, I'm breeding regardless and has the gall to want to use registered studs. 
Terrible ethics 

Once again, glad all my kittens leave neutered!


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

I really think there needs to be a distinction here. Let's be honest, most pet owners like myself, don't really know or care too much about registration. In those Facebook groups I mentioned, _*a lot*_, of people were turned off and left the group because:

- They were repeatedly told they were bad, terrible people for buying unregistered.
- Told it's their fault and karma that their cat got ill / needed vet treatment / died.
- Repeatedly told they've got 'moggies', and to stop posting pictures of their cats unless they are registered.
- Told to stop asking what colour their cats are, as they should ask their breeder or look at the paperwork, and if they are unregistered to stop asking.

That was on a very popular UK Ragdoll Facebook group. This kind of attitude annoys the average person, and it doesn't win them over to the side of the registered breeder. If anything, like I've been, it turns them away as it seems like an incredibly toxic, judgemental and bitchy community.

If everyone is lumped into the same category as back yard breeder, and there is no distinction regardless of the treatment of the animals (which should be the most important thing at the end of the day), then anyone unregistered or having an oops litter might as well not vaccinate, not worm, not flea, re-home at 8 weeks... People are always going to breed and buy unregistered, so maybe a better approach would be to make sure that section of breeders is doing the best they possibly can for the animals.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

HannahRose6 said:


> As I said before, my dogs aren't KC registered and nobody calls them 'mongrels' or denies the are German Shepherds. Similar situation to this ragdoll breeder. It is a woman who breeds them out of the KC but does everything right by her dogs. What about all the designer breeds of dogs that are produced at the moment? Cockapoo, cavapoo, maltipoo. None of these dogs would exist as they cannot be KC registered and must be crossbred.


Um, the -poo's are not breeds. They are indeed crossbreeds. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. 
There are ethical breeding standards that this breeder is failing to meet and by buying from this breeder you are supporting their lack of ethics.

Registration is the minimum standard. Meaning just because the kittens will be registered doesn't mean this breeder is doing everything else right ethically, but it's the least of what you have to look for.

If you're not part of the solution and choosing a truly ethical breeder, you're part of the problem.

You're trying very hard to justify your choice of buying this kitten to a bunch of strangers - that alone tells me you know this isn't right but you want a kitten so you're going to do the mental gymnastics to make it okay.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

HannahRose6 said:


> <snip>
> What about all the designer breeds of dogs that are produced at the moment? Cockapoo, cavapoo, maltipoo. None of these dogs would exist as they cannot be KC registered and must be crossbred.
> <snip>


Those designer 'breeds' are responsible for a lot of misery in the dog world, especially the ones that involve flat-faced dogs.

https://thebark.com/content/truth-behind-designer-dogs-and-dog-breeding

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...le-inventor-lifes-regret-frankenstein-monster


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## HannahRose6 (Feb 25, 2021)

As I said, I have come across a lot of registered, unethical breeders. So I don't believe that registration should be the minimum, I think the treatment of the animals should be.

They are indeed crossbreeds. My point was, if everyone stuck rigidly within the KC rules, then the current most popular dog in the UK (cockapoo) wouldn't exist.

There are cruel breeds in both cats and dogs. Flat faced dogs are cruel, the same as Munchkins or Scottish Folds in cats. Hence, I'd rather focus on the treatment of the animals by the individual breeder than the certification and registration of people breeding animals with known health issues. There is actually a lot to be said for crossbreeds, like cockapoos, as it can help to alleviate some of the known health issues within a specific breed.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

@HannahRose6

You come on a pet forum, where everyone is about ethics, the best for the animals, responsible breeding(if breeding at all) responsible pet ownership, advocation of rescues etc 
What kind of replies did you really expect to get, when asking about a breeder that goes against most, if not all, of the forums ethos 
And 
Is deliberately breaking her contract with her cats breeder 
Have you given a thought to how that original breeder feels about all of this?
Apart from feeling daft not to neuter before rehoming (any that were not to be on breeding contracts) they must feel betrayed and have had their trust incredibly destroyed 
Personally, I'd walk away, simply because, if they can lie by signing a contract and then ignoring it 
What else are they lieing about?
Morals and ethics are strong in my world

Ps I have no cat in this fight, I don't breed nor do I actually own a cat


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

HannahRose6 said:


> Hence, I'd rather focus on the treatment of the animals by the individual breeder than the certification and registration


Why can't it be both? 
Why can't you find a breeder who treats their cats and kittens well *and* does things correctly as far as registration? It shouldn't be one or the other, it should be both.

In a world where hundreds of millions of dogs and cats die and are euthanized for no other reason than not having a home, it matters which breeding practices you support with your money. There are far too many people breeding as it is. Supporting unethical breeding just adds to the problem.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

HannahRose6 said:


> <snip>
> if everyone stuck rigidly within the KC rules, then the current most popular dog in the UK (cockapoo) wouldn't exist.
> <snip>


Have you looked at the list of health problems cocapoos can have? Being popular doesn't mean they are heathy dogs.

https://www.animalfriends.co.uk/pet-advice/dog/dog-breed-guides/cockapoo-health-problems/


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Choosing a new kitten should be exciting and fun, which as you are here asking questions I think you should walk away. As it clearly doesn’t sit right with you. 

Whilst there will always be ‘catty’ people, most is down to jealousy. Personally I would steer clear of these Facebook groups. You are the best judge, if it doesn’t sit right it, it isn’t right for you. It is a lot of money for a kitten and they will be a member of your household hopefully for a long time. 

Whilst things do sometimes go wrong with kittens bred by registered breeders, most of the time it is genuinely just bad luck. You do have more comeback on complaints (except TICA).

When I got my first pedigree I spent ages choosing the breed, researching what I could. Incidentally I started with thinking about a Ragdoll but decided after research a large ‘natural’ breed cat was for us narrowing it down to Siberian, Maine Coon or Norwegian. Then finally down to Norwegians. I looked at breed club websites and looked at breeders websites and made a shortlist of breeders to contact. I contacted the top of my list and although she didn’t have any kittens available at the time. We started emailing and I felt I could trust her I decided to wait until she had kittens and have one from her. The kittens were born and at 5 weeks old I went to visit them. As soon as I got in the door, this gorgeous tortie climbed up me for attention and I feel in love. She was the year old sister (same mating) of the kitten s. She showed me around, introducing me to their parents, grand parents and great grandparents. She showed me all of the cats paperwork, pedigrees etc. 

I was a member of the forum back then and it never occurred to me to ask questions here, as I was happy with my decision.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

HannahRose6 said:


> There is actually a lot to be said for crossbreeds, like cockapoos, as it can help to alleviate some of the known health issues within a specific breed.


The above statement just proves how little you know about breeding and the "ethics" involved.
Both Cocker Spaniels and Poodles have health issues which is why they like many breeds need to be tested to make sure they are clear of these health issues before being used in a breeding programme .
I doubt whether the majority of those breeding "Cockapoo's"or any other daft named cross breed know the health issues of the sire and dam never mind having them tested to make sure they are clear .


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

HannahRose6 said:


> I really think there needs to be a distinction here.
> 
> In those Facebook groups I mentioned, _*a lot*_, of people were turned off and left the group because:
> 
> ...


Yes, as as you have found the members in this forum, genrally speaking, agree with that Ragdoll group. For the same reasons.



HannahRose6 said:


> Let's be honest, most pet owners like myself, don't really know or care too much about registration.


So why not go to a shelter instead.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

HannahRose6 said:


> Munchkins or Scottish Folds in cats.


Neither of these are able to be registered with the GCCF because of the health issues.
If your breeder is so conscientious @HannahRose6 why did she not go to her queen's breeder and ask about putting her on the active register? Or wait until she could get an active registered girl? This is not ethical breeding which should be the foundation of a decent breeder. All health and welfare issues should follow naturally from that.
I know that doesn't always follow but to me it's the right way.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

HannahRose6 said:


> There is actually a lot to be said for crossbreeds, like cockapoos, as it can help to alleviate some of the known health issues within a specific breed.


Absolute hogwash. Not to mention we aren't talking about dogs here so why do you keep bringing them up? We're talking about you wanting to purchase kittens from a breeder who obviously is not really that desirable or you never would have started this thread in the first place. Since you went to a FB group and were told the same thing, somehow you thought you were going to get your "approval" here. Now you know, you've been told in two different venues, leave this breeder alone and support only ethical responsible HONEST breeding.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Just to add without registration how do you know that all the cats in the pedigree are actually Ragdoll; and Siamese Persian etc. hasn’t been used? Then you could have the genetic issue that are associated with those cats, like PRA or PKD. Then the Ragdoll only health tests will only detect the genetic mutations common in Raggies not other breeds unless a full genetic panel was done.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

HannahRose6 said:


> After speaking to the breeder and finding out she is unregistered, she told me she operates her breeding / cattery outside of the GCCF etc. The cost of the kitten is £750.


Why on earth would anyone in their right mind spend that sort of money on a cat that can not be registered or even proven to be pedigree ... just bizarre. You don't even have absolute proof the test certificates are for the cats claimed. No wonder Backyard Breeders are so commonplace here in the UK when the buyers will just throw cash at them like this :Banghead.


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## Chris13 (Feb 15, 2020)

Ime sorry not all breeders are in it for anything but the money 

I bought a cat from a "breeder" who was unknowingly pregnant and ill at the same time with full gccf papers, she was PTS when babies were 4wks old due to a "breeder" 

Now I have her baby and she has no papers but it doesn't make a difference to me and all her siblings were treated with the best care possible and they are all healthy and well loved, does that make me a byb NO I was better than the breeder I took care off her and took her to the vet which cost a lot off money

I would personally buy a cat that was well loved and taken care off regardless off paperwork 

I have had lots off great advice on hear and I appreciate it but I am sick off hearing go to a breeder NOT all are are nice are yourselfs


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## Chris13 (Feb 15, 2020)

The breeder In question had 2 litters off kittens in her house, I cant be exact but there was maybe 5/6 other adult females in her house all used for having kittems

Fully registered with gccf BUT how can you give all these little kittens love and time when there is so many

Nala had 6 and it was hard work but I did my very best with them they all turnt 1 yesterday and sent a happy birthday to them all and receive photos regularly 

Doesn't take papers 2 be a responsible pet owner


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

HannahRose6 said:


> There is actually a lot to be said for crossbreeds, like cockapoos, as it can help to alleviate some of the known health issues within a specific breed.


No.

Cockers have specific hereditary health issues/conditions, as do Poodles.

Breeding from non-tested dogs can 'double up' on the health issues, not alleviate them.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Chris13 said:


> I have had lots off great advice on hear and I appreciate it but I am sick off hearing go to a breeder NOT all are are nice are yourselfs


The advice is not simply "go to a breeder", but go to a reputable registered breeder - same as rescues not all are good.

It's the buyers responsibility to research which is so easily done these days, and if not happy with a situation then walk away.

Good breeders don't rehome adult cats unspayed, and pregnant. 
If research is done first as it should be, there's loads of info via Google about adopting retirees and what to expect.


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## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

@Chris13 I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience. If your cat was already pregnant when you bought her, you are not a breeder - good or otherwise. Nobody is saying that having papers automatically means a good breeder, just that it's a starting point. It's not being unregistered per se that is the problem, more the reasons why. When a cat has not been registered, it's usually because it can't be and for very good reason. Whatever the reason, a good, ethical breeder will not breed from that cat but will look to buy a breeding queen from a reputable breeder.

@HannahRose6 It sounds as though you have already decided you want to go ahead with this and are merely looking for reassurance. I hope you will read through this thread again and take on board the points made. One thing I would add - I can't recall now whether others have mentioned this - you say that the father is registered. Please make sure that he has had all the required health testing also and see evidence of this. Also ask to see a certificate of mating or some evidence that he really is the father of the kittens.

I am not a breeder and never have been. I do have pedigree cats. I don't show them either. However, they are registered and I would not have bought unregistered cats. Having decided on a breed, I wanted to be sure they really were that breed and that they came from an ethical breeder. I've never fully understood the point of view that it doesn't matter whether cats are registered or not if you don't want to breed or show. Backyard breeders thrive on that thought.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Chris13 said:


> I would personally buy a cat that was well loved and taken care off regardless off paperwork


But why can't you have both? Both ethical breeding practices - that includes appropriate papers, *and* takes good care of their animals? 
As @spotty cats says if you do your research, you can find out if the breeder is responsible and does everything else you are looking for in a breeder. 
Finding a good breeder is not a check-off list, it's more like putting a puzzle together. You want all the pieces, and the pieces have to fit together a certain way. Breeding from registered cats is a bare minimum, you have to go looking for the other pieces from there. But it's not worth continuing to find the other pieces if the bare minimum of breeding from registered cats is missing.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> *But why can't you have both? *Both ethical breeding practices - that includes appropriate papers, *and* takes good care of their animals?
> As @spotty cats says if you do your research, you can find out if the breeder is responsible and does everything else you are looking for in a breeder.
> Finding a good breeder is not a check-off list, it's more like putting a puzzle together. You want all the pieces, and the pieces have to fit together a certain way. Breeding from registered cats is a bare minimum, you have to go looking for the other pieces from there. But it's not worth continuing to find the other pieces if the bare minimum of breeding from registered cats is missing.


Exactly. All my kittens are registered, they usually are delivered and grow up in my living room (just me in the house), and my cats are pets as well as breeding and (in some cases) show cats.

Ragdolls are one of the breeds most plagiarised by BYBs, which will make finding a decent breeder harder. The other thing that makes it hard is, of course, impatience. The 'must have a kitten now' syndrome.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Closing this now as the OP has left the building.
:Locktopic


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