# Re making a dog a champion



## Doguiesrus (Apr 18, 2012)

Something that has always baffled me! How do u make a dog a champion if it is a breed with no ccs on offer? Thanks


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Not possible, well not in showing if they dont have championship status.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

If the breed is not given CC's then it is impossible to make a dog a champion. You can qualify for cruftss in the same way as you would in a breed with CC's by coming 1st, 2nd or 3rd in puppy, junior, post grad, limit or open.


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## Barefootgirl (Sep 6, 2013)

Is a CC generally given to best dog in breed / best bitch in breed?


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

Barefootgirl said:


> Is a CC generally given to best dog in breed / best bitch in breed?


Yes, that's about it.
Sounds so simple, doesn't it  Hard to imagine the years and tears, that go into making up a Champion


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Born to Boogie said:


> Yes, that's about it.
> Sounds so simple, doesn't it  Hard to imagine the years and tears, that go into making up a Champion


There was a time and I don't know if it still applies that at some show some breeds were only given 1 CC and that went to the BOB. I know it happened in greyhounds a few years ago but I haven't shown greyhounds for about 5 years so have no idea if it is still the case.


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## Born to Boogie (Oct 1, 2010)

Freyja said:


> There was a time and I don't know if it still applies that at some show some breeds were only given 1 CC and that went to the BOB. I know it happened in greyhounds a few years ago but I haven't shown greyhounds for about 5 years so have no idea if it is still the case.


Yes, some breeds did suffer that horrible fate  Not a popular move, by the KC. Could be wrong but I think they are reconsidering that one


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

In order to make up a Show Champion (in gundogs and collies) or a Champion in others, the dog must win 3 x CCs.

If CCs are not on offer the only award is 1st and Best of Sex etc

It does not matter how many of these your dog wins, it still does not make him a Champion.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

To become a champion a dog needs three CCs (you will also hear people call these "tickets") from three separate judges. For breeds with no CCs on offer your dog can win Best of Breed, go on to win the group, and then win Best in Show, but he will never be a champion.

For border collies and gundogs it is further complicated in that winning three CCs from three different judges only makes them Show Champions. To be made a full champion, a border collie either has to also be a field champion or take the KC's herding test - and I believe gundogs have something similar, but I'm not sure exactly what that is - someone with a bit more knowledge than me will no doubt be able to elaborate. 

If your dog is on the Imported Breeds Register, the highest you can get is Best of Breed and then a courtesy run around the ring at the beginning of the group judging.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> For border collies and gundogs it is further complicated in that winning three CCs from three different judges only makes them Show Champions. To be made a full champion, a border collie either has to also be a field champion or take the KC's herding test - and I believe gundogs have something similar, but I'm not sure exactly what that is - someone with a bit more knowledge than me will no doubt be able to elaborate.
> 
> If your dog is on the Imported Breeds Register, the highest you can get is Best of Breed and then a courtesy run around the ring at the beginning of the group judging.


Never heard of the title "Field Champion"?

In any case a Border Collie has to take the Herding Test and pass to become a Full Champion.

Gundogs either have to win an award at a Field Trial or pass the Show Gundog Working Certificate.

Of course a Gundog could become a Dual Champion by becoming both a Show Champion AND a FT Champion (3 x cc for the first, 2 x cc for the second) or another title in another discipline eg Sh Ch and WT Ch Benreeda Wolfgang for Jacinto CDex UDe WDex PDex TDex who was a GWP (aka Hogan)


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> Never heard of the title "Field Champion"?


Er - yes  Did you not read my post:



Spellweaver said:


> For border collies and gundogs it is further complicated in that winning three CCs from three different judges only makes them Show Champions. To be made a full champion, a border collie either has to also be a *field champion *or take the KC's *herding test*





smokeybear said:


> In any case a Border Collie has to take the Herding Test and pass to become a Full Champion.


Or be/become a field champion as I already said. I repeat, did you not read my post?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

No such thing as a Field Champion, only a Field Trial Champion in the UK

HTH

ETA and the title of FT Champion (Field Trial Champion) is ONLY available to KC Breed registered Gundogs.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> No such thing as a Field Champion, only a Field Trial Champion in the UK
> 
> HTH
> 
> ETA and the title of FT Champion (Field Trial Champion) is ONLY available to KC Breed registered Gundogs.


_"There are exemptions from the Herding Test for dogs which have already proved their herding abilities and instincts in Sheepdog Trials and Tests affiliated to the ISDS (International Sheep Dog Society). The following are exempt:

Dogs qualified for entry in International or National Trials.
Dogs placed in the first ten in an Open Sheepdog Trial (where a minimum of 40 dogs competed).
Dogs placed in the first six in any Nursery or Novice Trial (where a minimum of 25 dogs competed).
From 2009 dogs which have passed the ISDS Working Test for Registration on Merit."_
Border Collie Herding Tests


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> _"There are exemptions from the Herding Test for dogs which have already proved their herding abilities and instincts in Sheepdog Trials and Tests affiliated to the ISDS (International Sheep Dog Society). The following are exempt:
> 
> Dogs qualified for entry in International or National Trials.
> Dogs placed in the first ten in an Open Sheepdog Trial (where a minimum of 40 dogs competed).
> ...


Thank you for that I am well aware of the Border Collie Sheepdog Trials and the Herding Test.

As I said, there is no such UK title of "Field Champion" only of "Field Trial Champion" which no Border Collie can ever achieve, as it is not a gundog. And only Gundogs can enter Field Trials, two of which need to be won to make up a Field Trial Champion.

Unless of course you know different.................


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Just to make things even more complicated, a Full Champion is a Show Champion who has gained the SGWC, but this is not the same as a Dual Champion.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/257409/sgwc-a5-7-nov-2011.pdf

It's pretty much *accepted* that there is not going to be a Dual Champion any time in the near future for Labradors, the show and working sides are too divided.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

In Essence 

Gundogs can be:

Show Champions
Full Champions
Field Trial Champions
Working Trial Champions
Agility Champions
Obedience Champions etc etc 
Dual Champions (eg 2 from the following FT Ch/WT Ch/Sh Ch/Ag Ch etc etc)

Border Collies can be

Show Champions
Full Champions
Any of the above Champions BAR Field Trial Champions
Dual Champions (with titles in EVERYTHING bar Field Trials)


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> Thank you for that I am well aware of the Border Collie Sheepdog Trials and the Herding Test.
> 
> As I said, there is no such UK title of "Field Champion" only of "Field Trial Champion" which no Border Collie can ever achieve, as it is not a gundog. And only Gundogs can enter Field Trials, two of which need to be won to make up a Field Trial Champion.
> 
> Unless of course you know different.................


Oh for goodness's sake - did you not read the part in my first post where I said I was not sure about the gundog trials? I said someone more knowledgeable would be along tp put people right.

As for border collies, if you were well aware rolleyes that a border collie could be made into a full champion having participated in sheepdog trials, why did you post the following:



smokeybear said:


> In any case a Border Collie has to take the Herding Test and pass to become a Full Champion.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Oh for goodness's sake - did you not read the part in my first post where I said I was not sure about the gundog trials? I said someone more knowledgeable would be along tp put people right.
> 
> As for border collies, if you were well aware rolleyes that a border collie could be made into a full champion having participated in sheepdog trials, why did you post the following:


Because it is true.

Of course it is not EXCLUSIVELY true. 

In your original post you stated (and I quote)

*To be made a full champion, a border collie either has to also be a field champion or take the KC's herding test -*

Which is why I stated what I did, a) there is no such title as a Field Champion b) The title Field Trial Champion exists and c) that title is only open to KC breed registered gundogs, not to Border Collies

HTH


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