# Heard the latest from Donald Trump



## Happy Paws2

:Hilarious

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177


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## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> :Hilarious
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177


I was absolutely gobsmacked at the stupidity of the man. People have already died as a result of taking hydrochloroquine without medical supervision. I wonder how many of those who hang onto his every word, will try injecting themselves with bleach?

This was Dr Birx reaction to his insane suggestion.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=169439887625261


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## Gemmaa

I imagine this is how his advisors feel on the inside...


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## MilleD

Wow. That is some dangerous sh1t right there.

What's he trying to do, reduce the numbers of people that support his politics? Injecting Dettol is one way of doing it...


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## Linda Weasel

I think he’s in the early stages of ‘old duffer’ syndrome.

ie: ‘If I think it then it must be true’.


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## Magyarmum




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## Happy Paws2

The worrying thing is that people still vote him back as President later this year.


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## Bertie'sMum

and the award for ar*eh*le of the year goes to ....................................................


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## Linda Weasel

Bertie'sMum said:


> and the award for ar*eh*le of the year goes to ....................................................


Probably .........of the decade/century.


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## Dave S

Happy Paws2 said:


> The worrying thing is that people still vote him back as President later this year.


True and worrying but they would be the ones who did not take his advise - the ones that did are dead.


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## lullabydream

Sadly things like this have been happening in either Iraq or Iran. I can't remember which.. Drinking alcohol, bleach disinfectant till people die because they are running scared and are trying to cure themselves

This video tells you a bit, sorry pushed for time so can't at the moment time stamp




It's also got some interesting points from a virologist


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## JANICE199

*I find it even more worrying that Boris looks to him as a leader and advice. God help us all.*


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## picaresque

Reassuring to have further confirmation of this man's room temperature IQ. It's not like he has a really important job or anything. It'll be fine.


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## cheekyscrip

Alcohol. There is something in it. Like tonic mixed with gin.

Can try that...
But as to drinking bleach... let’s leave to Trump and his supporters. In UK too...

Farage can lead the way with a tumbler of Dettol and some isopropyl for a chaser...


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## Magyarmum

*News Thump

Friday 24 April 2020*

*Domestos launches new 'Patriot Smoothie' for Trump supporters*









*Well-known bleach manufacturer Domestos has this morning explained that it has no intention of looking a gift horse in the mouth and will be launching bleach smoothies for Donald Trump supporters later today.*

After the President of the United States chose to use a national address to publicly suggest injecting bleach could be a way to defeat COVID-19, those in the bleach business replied, 'kerching'.

Domestos executive Simon Williams told us, "Some will no doubt suggest that ingesting or injecting bleach into your body is a god-awfully stupid thing to do, but on the flip-side, if their commander-in-chief is suggesting it as a potential remedy, then surely it's the right of any America-loving patriot to do just that?

"We will probably be accused of exploiting idiot Trump fans, but we're just making it really easy to get an amount of bleach into their bodies that would be considered 'appropriate' by Donald Trump. How can giving people what they want be considered 'exploitation'?

"We're also not saying we are medical professionals. Obviously. But then neither is Donald Trump and people are listening to his medical advice.

"Putting bleach in your body is considered very bad by pretty much all experts everywhere - but who really needs experts when you've got Donald Trump on national TV spitballing ideas to cure the coronavirus in front of an audience of gullible simpletons?

"However, the lawyers have asked me to say, categorically, that drinking bleach is bad for you, so this is me doing that - but on the other hand, Donald Trump thinks it might cure COVID-19, so it's up to you really."


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## Jesthar

I see the Trump supporting 'fact checker' sites are frantically trying to claim that's not what was suggested, it was taken out of context etc.

In the meantime, disinfectant manuacturers are launching emphatic pleas that people DON'T try drinking or injecting their products...


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## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> The worrying thing is that people still vote him back as President later this year.


They can't if they're 6 feet under from poison


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## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> I see the Trump supporting 'fact checker' sites are frantically trying to claim that's not what was suggested, it was taken out of context etc.
> 
> In the meantime, disinfectant manuacturers are launching emphatic pleas that people DON'T try drinking or injecting their products...


I know! My cousin's wife is going frantic on FB defending him Actually said all his critics don't realise the man (Trump) is a genius:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead


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## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> I know! My cousin's wife is going frantic on FB defending him Actually said all his critics don't realise the man (Trump) is a genius:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead


I saw the news conference, it wasn't taken out of context. It was really that bad. 
I've been having a good giggle on FB, even his supporters (the ones on my newsfeed) are laughing at him on this one. Then one of my coworkers tells the story of his mother (a nurse no less) treating a staph infection under his arm by spraying it with lysol every day. Apparently it cleared it right up :Hilarious:Hilarious
Hey, duct-tape clears up warts so who knows what hidden potential is in household cleaners  
But seriously, does anyone really expect Trump to say anything remotely intelligent, coherent, or helpful? Really? Why are we still surprised at his asinine comments?


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## kittih

Magyarmum said:


> I was absolutely gobsmacked at the stupidity of the man. People have already died as a result of taking hydrochloroquine without medical supervision. I wonder how many of those who hang onto his every word, will try injecting themselves with bleach?
> 
> This was Dr Birx reaction to his insane suggestion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=169439887625261


She looks like she is trying hard not to cry. Poor woman.


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## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> I saw the news conference, it wasn't taken out of context. It was really that bad.
> I've been having a good giggle on FB, even his supporters (the ones on my newsfeed) are laughing at him on this one. Then one of my coworkers tells the story of his mother (a nurse no less) treating a staph infection under his arm by spraying it with lysol every day. Apparently it cleared it right up :Hilarious:Hilarious
> Hey, duct-tape clears up warts so who knows what hidden potential is in household cleaners
> But seriously, does anyone really expect Trump to say anything remotely intelligent, coherent, or helpful? Really? Why are we still surprised at his asinine comments?


I saw the press conference as well and unless I don't understand English, it wasn't taken out of context.

I've just been listening to him about an hour ago, taking back what what he said and the man's lying through his back teeth

https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...virus-treatment-remarks-were-sarcastic-2020-4

*Trump claims he was being sarcastic 'to see what would happen' when he suggested Americans might be able to inject household cleaners to treat coronavirus*


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## Magyarmum




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## Jesthar

Well, if you want sarcastic, I suppose _technically speaking_ he is correct - the techniques he was suggesting would actually kill Covid-19.

That they would do so by killing the host is probably something Trump would regard as a minor wrinkle, and certainly not a valid reason to criticise another of his 'great' plans...

</sarcasm>


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## Sandysmum

Why are we still surprised when he comes out with little gems like this, made even worse by the back tracking later. Are we really supposed to take him seriously when he seems to be making things up as he goes along and then says he hadn't meant it. Move over Donald and let the experts do their work saving the lives of your people!


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## 5r6ubertbe6y

Trump is not sane


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## cheekyscrip

Oh...well... he might literally lose his staunchest supporters and even the election as a result....


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## Magyarmum

jetsmum said:


> Why are we still surprised when he comes out with little gems like this, made even worse by the back tracking later. Are we really supposed to take him seriously when he seems to be making things up as he goes along and then says he hadn't meant it. Move over Donald and let the experts do their work saving the lives of your people!


According to The Guardian he was approached by some nut case who's peddling a concoction containing bleach as a "cure all".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...VcIrZweK9lUrzucBTLy6QVki4FABPeYMc5zOWtAO-W7qQ

*Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus 'cure' wrote to Trump this week*

I found this on FB this morning posted by a committed Trump supporter. God help us all if this is what they believe. (I'm not sure whether I should report it as misinformation?).

I'm now trying to figure out how the Koch brothers, Murdoch el al who according to a former PF member were trying to take over the world, fit in with this? Can anyone enlighten me?


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## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> (I'm not sure whether I should report it as misinformation?).


I do report stuff like this. The three dots on the top right of the post lead you to choices, I have to click 'see more' and select 'find support or report post' and then report it as false news. 
Of course totally up to you what you decide to do


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## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> I do report stuff like this. The three dots on the top right of the post lead you to choices, I have to click 'see more' and select 'find support or report post' and then report it as false news.
> Of course totally up to you what you decide to do


Thanks. I've reported it as false news. Unfortunately it's my cousin's wife and FB is the only way I can keep in touch with my US family.

It's not the first time she's posted articles like this and when I've commented about them being conspiracy theories I've been told because I'm British I can't possibly understand!


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## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> The worrying thing is that people still vote him back as President later this year


I bet they do, too.


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## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> Thanks. I've reported it as false news. Unfortunately it's my cousin's wife and FB is the only way I can keep in touch with my US family.
> 
> It's not the first time she's posted articles like this and when I've commented about them being conspiracy theories I've been told because I'm British I can't possibly understand!


That's the nice thing about how the reporting system on FB is set up, you can report someone but still stay in touch and not have to block them or anything. 
We'll I'm not British, and it sounds like a classic far fetched conspiracy theory to me!


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## O2.0

Oh the never-ending entertainment factor of Trump supporters. 
Yesterday an acquaintance posted that Trump's comments about disinfectants and light were not so off the wall after all, what do we think chemo is? It's disinfecting the body from cancer, and there are light therapies too. So there! Oh, and to add to the value of the post, it started with "I googled this." The comments were even more hilarious (to me) with people defending his intelligence etc. The last comment I saw was someone asking if he knew what he was talking about, why did he say he was being sarcastic? 
This morning the whole post was gone. I don't know if the OP deleted it, or if FB removed it. If it was a case of this person deleting it, even funnier. Just like Trump. First say something stupid, then pretend you didn't say something stupid, then deny the whole thing even existed. Admitting your mistakes and possibly learning from them is for weenies.


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## picaresque




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## Jesthar

picaresque said:


>


Yes!  I've been waiting for Randy's take on this! And he didn't disappoint - I completely lost it at the Swiffer bit... :Hilarious


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## Sandysmum

picaresque said:


>


Thank you for posting that, it's the best laugh I've had all week!


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## Dave S

picaresque said:


>


If there was a prize for the best post it should really go to picaresque.
Thanks for the laugh.


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## Calvine

O2.0 said:


> Oh, and to add to the value of the post, it started with "I googled this.


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious Hahahaha!
I have to admit: the fact that Trump makes me laugh out loud so often, I find it impossible to hate him. I reckon that he will get voted in again and again, simply for the entertainment value that he affords.


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## Psygon

Calvine said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious Hahahaha!
> I have to admit: the fact that Trump makes me laugh out loud so often, I find it impossible to hate him. I reckon that he will get voted in again and again, simply for the entertainment value that he affords.


When I saw that he wouldn't be doing his usual briefings I was quite disappointed. I tune into them just to see what wild things he will say next. It's great entertainment


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## Magyarmum

Psygon said:


> When I saw that he wouldn't be doing his usual briefings I was quite disappointed. I tune into them just to see what wild things he will say next. It's great entertainment


Better than Dallas!


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## picaresque

Dave S said:


> If there was a prize for the best post it should really go to picaresque.
> Thanks for the laugh.


All credit to Randy Rainbow, check him out on YouTube for more


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## Magyarmum




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## Jesthar

picaresque said:


> All credit to Randy Rainbow, check him out on YouTube for more


I can thoroughly second this - I found him four years ago ( when 'Braggadocious' went viral) and he's been comedy gold ever since!

I'll add a language warning for the occasional f word etc, but not enough to bother me and I'm pretty averse to that kind of stuff.


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## Calvine

cheekyscrip said:


> Oh...well... he might literally lose his staunchest supporters and even the election as a result....


No, I bet he'll get in!:Hilarious:Hilarious


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## picaresque

Jesthar said:


> I can thoroughly second this - I found him four years ago ( when 'Braggadocious' went viral) and he's been comedy gold ever since!
> 
> I'll add a language warning for the occasional f word etc, but not enough to bother me and I'm pretty averse to that kind of stuff.


I think my favourite is Russian Connection (to the tune of Rainbow Connection). Love the bit at the beginning, Trump referring to someone as a showboat; Randy Rainbow - 'That's rich coming from the Titanic' :Angelic


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## Magyarmum

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=236673061013278


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## Jesthar

picaresque said:


> I think my favourite is Russian Connection (to the tune of Rainbow Connection). Love the bit at the beginning, Trump referring to someone as a showboat; Randy Rainbow - 'That's rich coming from the Titanic' :Angelic


I'd forgotten that one! My favourite interview line is from Fact-Checker, Fact-Checker "..my guest at this time, a woman that sells more fiction than J K Rowling, Kellyanne Conartist... "


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## SbanR

picaresque said:


>


See what happens when you take Clorox


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## Magyarmum




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## Magyarmum




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## Linda Weasel

Magyarmum said:


>


Jeez. The US is run by senile old duffers!


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## Happy Paws2

SbanR said:


> See what happens when you take Clorox
> View attachment 437820


That's brilliant, (white)


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## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


>


There's a very good reasong Randy Rainbow calls him the 'human hand grenade' in this ABBA parody 

(mild language warning for near the start)


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## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> There's a very good reasong Randy Rainbow calls him the 'human hand grenade' in this ABBA parody
> 
> (mild language warning for near the start)


Brilliant!


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## Magyarmum




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## DogLover1981

There are people that are crazy. O.O

Federal Judge Halts Sale of Industrial Bleach as COVID-19 Cure From South Florida Church
https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-food-drug-administration-bleach-1498751


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## Lurcherlad

Jesthar said:


> I see the Trump supporting 'fact checker' sites are frantically trying to claim that's not what was suggested, it was taken out of context etc..


Codswollop!

It was on a live broadcast and very clear what he was saying.


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## Magyarmum

DogLover1981 said:


> There are people that are crazy. O.O
> 
> Federal Judge Halts Sale of Industrial Bleach as COVID-19 Cure From South Florida Church
> https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-food-drug-administration-bleach-1498751


According to reports I read the pastor, or whatever he's called, of the church wrote to Trump promoting MMS as a cure for Covid-19.

What happened afterwards is history

forgot to add this ...........

https://genesis2church.ch/our-church


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## Lurcherlad

JANICE199 said:


> *I find it even more worrying that Boris looks to him as a leader and advice. God help us all.*


Does he though - really?


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## Lurcherlad

MissMiloKitty said:


> Trump is not sane


Surely, there's a way to have a leader removed from office on that basis?


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## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> Surely, there's a way to have a leader removed from office on that basis?


I suppose they could try carrying him out of the White House in a strait jacket


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## Magyarmum

Lurcherlad said:


> Surely, there's a way to have a leader removed from office on that basis?


To answer your question.......

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-amendment-could-remove-trump-video-explainer

*What is the 25th amendment and could it remove Trump? - video explainer*


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## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> To answer your question.......
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-amendment-could-remove-trump-video-explainer
> 
> *What is the 25th amendment and could it remove Trump? - video explainer*


 Thank you for that . . . it explains things clearly; but it rather looks as tho' he's here for the duration (ie the only way to get him out is to vote him out).


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## Dave S

Trumps own words - he was speaking about Biden though.

*"I don't believe the polls," the president said. "I believe the people of this country are smart. And I don't think that they will put a man in who's incompetent."
*
Just proved himself wrong there.

Quoted from his comments about China wanting him to lose re-election. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52482109


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## Dave S




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## Magyarmum




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## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> View attachment 438611


[/QUOTE]


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## Magyarmum

This has been going around FB, and people are falling for it!

Too ignorant to realise that there's not comparison as TB is a *bacterial* infection which can be cured and immunised against.

Covid-19 is caused by a *virus* and to date there is neither a cure nor a vaccination!


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## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> This has been going around FB, and people are falling for it!
> 
> Too ignorant to realise that there's not comparison as TB is a *bacterial* infection which can be cured and immunised against.
> 
> Covid-19 is caused by a *virus* and to date there is neither a cure nor a vaccination!


How ridiculous, some people have a scar to prove they had the bloody jab for it!


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## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> How ridiculous, some people have a scar to prove they had the bloody jab for it!


If that's not bad enough, how about this one?










or this!


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## StormsMum2010

Magyarmum said:


> This has been going around FB, and people are falling for it!
> 
> Too ignorant to realise that there's not comparison as TB is a *bacterial* infection which can be cured and immunised against.
> 
> Covid-19 is caused by a *virus* and to date there is neither a cure nor a vaccination!





Magyarmum said:


> If that's not bad enough, how about this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this!


'Some' people were dying because they weren't being given the proper treatments (Zinc) alongside Hydroxychloroquine...

*Is a combo of chloroquine and Zinc a cure for coronavirus?*
Recent studies from Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation, University of Queensland Centre for Clinical Research, and Qingdao Municipal Hospital identified that Chloroquine phosphate, a drug used for the treatment of malaria, chikungunya fever, Zika virus, and HIV, is shown to be effective against COVID-19. Basically, Chloroquine phosphate increases the endosomal pH and interfere with terminal glycosylation due to which the virus cannot survive.
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_a_combo_of_chloroquine_and_Zinc_a_cure_for_coronavirus

*Thousands of Doctors: Yes, Hydroxychloroquine Works Against Wuhan Coronavirus*
'Over the past three weeks, there's been debate over whether hydroxychloroquine, a drug used for decades to treat malaria, can help ease the symptoms of Wuhan coronavirus. During White House press briefings, reporters have done their best to shoot down the possibility.

But doctors around the country and the world are using it and seeing positive results'.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katie...en-recovery-with-hydroxy-chloroquine-n2566409

*Fauci knew about HCQ in 2005 -- nobody needed to die*
'Dr. Anthony Fauci, whose "expert" advice to President Trump has resulted in the complete shutdown of the greatest economic engine in world history, has known since 2005 that chloroquine is an effective inhibitor of coronaviruses'......
https://onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2020/04/27/fauci-knew-about-hcq-in-2005-nobody-needed-to-die?
fbclid=IwAR0JLSc6sYQVI55bSO_m0HCYa6NGZuqIdwnILIwPM1Tt7Ypuq3_P8604onc

STOP believing the LYING mainstream media!


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## O2.0

@StormsMum2010 you know the virus that causes covid-19 is called that because it wasn't identified until December 2019 right? 
Coronaviruses are extremely common, but they differ enough that a treatment for one may not be effective for the other, and may in fact be detrimental.

@Magyarmum I hope you're reporting those FB posts? The youtube video you can report to youtube also.

This is one I reported today, though it's so ridiculous I'm not sure how anyone believes it...


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## Magyarmum

StormsMum2010 said:


> 'Some' people were dying because they weren't being given the proper treatments (Zinc) alongside Hydroxychloroquine...
> 
> *Is a combo of chloroquine and Zinc a cure for coronavirus?*
> Recent studies from Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation, University of Queensland Centre for Clinical Research, and Qingdao Municipal Hospital identified that Chloroquine phosphate, a drug used for the treatment of malaria, chikungunya fever, Zika virus, and HIV, is shown to be effective against COVID-19. Basically, Chloroquine phosphate increases the endosomal pH and interfere with terminal glycosylation due to which the virus cannot survive.
> https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_a_combo_of_chloroquine_and_Zinc_a_cure_for_coronavirus
> 
> *Thousands of Doctors: Yes, Hydroxychloroquine Works Against Wuhan Coronavirus*
> 'Over the past three weeks, there's been debate over whether hydroxychloroquine, a drug used for decades to treat malaria, can help ease the symptoms of Wuhan coronavirus. During White House press briefings, reporters have done their best to shoot down the possibility.
> 
> But doctors around the country and the world are using it and seeing positive results'.
> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katie...en-recovery-with-hydroxy-chloroquine-n2566409
> 
> *Fauci knew about HCQ in 2005 -- nobody needed to die*
> 'Dr. Anthony Fauci, whose "expert" advice to President Trump has resulted in the complete shutdown of the greatest economic engine in world history, has known since 2005 that chloroquine is an effective inhibitor of coronaviruses'......
> https://onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2020/04/27/fauci-knew-about-hcq-in-2005-nobody-needed-to-die?
> fbclid=IwAR0JLSc6sYQVI55bSO_m0HCYa6NGZuqIdwnILIwPM1Tt7Ypuq3_P8604onc
> 
> STOP believing the LYING mainstream media!


So what was that little outburst all about? And why the reply which was totally out of context?

My post had nothing to do with Hydroxychloroquine unless of course it's an effective cure for conspiracy theories which seem to be running rampant on FB.

As for believing the LYING main stream media I much prefer informed sources like the Lancet or the BMJ.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30313-3/fulltext

*Hydroxychloroquine prophylaxis for COVID-19 contacts in India*

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2765500

*Caution Needed on the Use of Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine for Coronavirus Disease 2019*


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## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> If that's not bad enough, how about this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this!


Just as ridiculous!

Some people really don't get what is trying to be achieved do they?


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## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> @StormsMum2010 you know the virus that causes covid-19 is called that because it wasn't identified until December 2019 right?
> Coronaviruses are extremely common, but they differ enough that a treatment for one may not be effective for the other, and may in fact be detrimental.
> 
> @Magyarmum I hope you're reporting those FB posts? The youtube video you can report to youtube also.
> 
> This is one I reported today, though it's so ridiculous I'm not sure how anyone believes it...


What are they planning on doing with said DNA, or have they not thought that far ahead?


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## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> My post had nothing to do with Hydroxychloroquine unless of course it's an effective cure for conspiracy theories which seem to be running rampant on FB.


:Hilarious


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## O2.0

MilleD said:


> What are they planning on doing with said DNA, or have they not thought that far ahead?


Forget thinking ahead, there doesn't appear to be any actual thinking at all!

These are the same people who send their spit to ancestry DNA and don't bat an eye. :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> Forget thinking ahead, there doesn't appear to be any actual thinking at all!
> 
> These are the same people who send their spit to ancestry DNA and don't bat an eye. :Hilarious:Hilarious


Perhaps Bill Gates doesn't run that?


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## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Forget thinking ahead, there doesn't appear to be any actual thinking at all!
> 
> These are the same people who send their spit to ancestry DNA and don't bat an eye. :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## O2.0

MilleD said:


> Perhaps Bill Gates doesn't run that?


I'm sure I can find a conspiracy theory somewhere that involves him  
I don't know why the conspiracy theorists are so obsessed with him, of all the bazzilionaires out there, he seems to do the most good, donates the most of his wealth, seems to care and actually be a decent human being. Very suspicious behavior apparently 
Trump with his complete assholery is fine, we trust him, but this nice guy over here who actually thinks and can formulate a complete sentence, no way man, that's weird and suspicious.


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## StormsMum2010

O2.0 said:


> I'm sure I can find a conspiracy theory somewhere that involves him
> I don't know why the conspiracy theorists are so obsessed with him, of all the bazzilionaires out there, he seems to do the most good, donates the most of his wealth, seems to care and actually be a decent human being. Very suspicious behavior apparently
> Trump with his complete assholery is fine, we trust him, but this nice guy over here who actually thinks and can formulate a complete sentence, no way man, that's weird and suspicious.


:Banghead:Meh
There's just no waking up some people.


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## O2.0

StormsMum2010 said:


> :Banghead:Meh
> There's just no waking up some people.


I know, it's so frustrating isn't it?

Let me guess, Alex Jones fan?


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## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> I know, it's so frustrating isn't it?
> 
> Let me guess, Alex Jones fan?


I thought you were talking about the woman that hosts the One Show in the UK 

Had to google


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## O2.0

MilleD said:


> I thought you were talking about the woman that hosts the One Show in the UK
> 
> Had to google


OMG you were not familiar with the unadulterated crazy that is Mr. Jones? I'm so sorry to end your innocence there. The world seems a better place before you realize there is an "I will eat my neighbors" Alex Jones out there and people who genuinely believe him and hang on his every word. One of which is leading our country! :Arghh:Arghh


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> OMG you were not familiar with the unadulterated crazy that is Mr. Jones? I'm so sorry to end your innocence there. The world seems a better place before you realize there is an "I will eat my neighbors" Alex Jones out there and people who genuinely believe him and hang on his every word. One of which is leading our country! :Arghh:Arghh


----------



## StormsMum2010

O2.0 said:


> I know, it's so frustrating isn't it?
> 
> Let me guess, Alex Jones fan?


No, he's a Mossad shill for the establishment. I follow QAnon AND do my own independent research!
Something some of you could benefit from doing.


----------



## SbanR

MilleD said:


> I thought you were talking about the woman that hosts the One Show in the UK


You're not the only one


----------



## O2.0

StormsMum2010 said:


> No, he's a Mossad shill for the establishment. I follow QAnon AND do my own independent research!
> Something some of you could benefit from doing.


Had to "research" (google)....
QAnon is... um... wow.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...n-rightwing-conspiracy-theory-explained-trump
"Imagine a volatile mix of Pizzagate, InfoWars and the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, multiplied by the power of the internet and with an extra boost from a handful of conservative celebrities."

And I'm still not entirely sure what a Mossad shill is, or how that even remotely applies to Alex Jones. 
I must not be smart enough to comprehend that particular branch of conspiracy....


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> Had to "research" (google)....
> QAnon is... um... wow.
> https://www.theguardian.com/technol...n-rightwing-conspiracy-theory-explained-trump
> "Imagine a volatile mix of Pizzagate, InfoWars and the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, multiplied by the power of the internet and with an extra boost from a handful of conservative celebrities."
> 
> And I'm still not entirely sure what a Mossad shill is, or how that even remotely applies to Alex Jones.
> I must not be smart enough to comprehend that particular branch of conspiracy....


The Wikipedia page is delightful not that I usually trust it as knowledgeable or a decent source.. But for a conspiracy group.. I have a theory they would edit it themselves if they didn't agree!


----------



## MilleD

StormsMum2010 said:


> No, he's a Mossad shill for the establishment. I follow QAnon AND do my own independent research!
> Something some of you could benefit from doing.


He's a what now? And you follow what now?

It's funny that all the conspiracy theorists that do their own independent research seem to all draw the same iffy conclusions...


----------



## StormsMum2010

O2.0 said:


> Had to "research" (google)....
> QAnon is... um... wow.
> https://www.theguardian.com/technol...n-rightwing-conspiracy-theory-explained-trump
> "Imagine a volatile mix of Pizzagate, InfoWars and the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, multiplied by the power of the internet and with an extra boost from a handful of conservative celebrities."
> 
> And I'm still not entirely sure what a Mossad shill is, or how that even remotely applies to Alex Jones.
> I must not be smart enough to comprehend that particular branch of conspiracy....


Why not educate yourself on what Q is really about, instead of (Yet again) only believing the lies and propaganda of mainstream media!
https://qmap.pub/

Think it might be a bit beyond you though.


----------



## StormsMum2010

MilleD said:


> He's a what now? And you follow what now?
> 
> It's funny that all the conspiracy theorists that do their own independent research seem to all draw the same iffy conclusions...


You won't get it.
https://qmap.pub/

Q stands for 'highest military security clearance' by the way!


----------



## StormsMum2010

This is the intro video to Q:

*Q - The Plan To Save The World REMASTERED*
*



*


----------



## StormsMum2010

StormsMum2010 said:


> This is the intro video to Q:
> 
> *Q - The Plan To Save The World REMASTERED*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


Then watch this & learn why you shouldn't be trusting the mainstream media...

'The Out Of The Shadows documentary lifts the mask on how the mainstream media & Hollywood manipulate & control the masses by spreading propaganda throughout their content. Our goal is to wake up the general public by shedding light on how we all have been lied to & brainwashed by a hidden enemy with a sinister agenda'.


----------



## Jesthar

*Goes off and Does The Reseach - because that's what she's trained to do*

Well, I can tell you one thing - I'd love to see a QAnon vs Scientology face off...


----------



## MilleD

This makes more sense than the QAnon nonsense....


----------



## MilleD

StormsMum2010 said:


> You won't get it.
> https://qmap.pub/
> 
> Q stands for 'highest military security clearance' by the way!


Which helped them find out that Tom Hanks was a paedophile?


----------



## DogLover1981

QAnon is just as creepy as Scientology, IMO, and I hadn't heard of it until recently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

When people talk to me about conspiracy theories they believe, I just tell them I think they're an alien disguised as a human that's plotting to destroy humanity and take over the world. It's even possible that trying to get humans to believe in strange conspiracies is apart of their agenda too.  There's typically about the same amount of proof of both thoughts.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> @StormsMum2010 you know the virus that causes covid-19 is called that because it wasn't identified until December 2019 right?
> Coronaviruses are extremely common, but they differ enough that a treatment for one may not be effective for the other, and may in fact be detrimental.
> 
> @Magyarmum I hope you're reporting those FB posts? The youtube video you can report to youtube also.
> 
> This is one I reported today, though it's so ridiculous I'm not sure how anyone believes it...


Unfortunately my younger sister is convinced this is true. This caused a bit of a family row a few days ago when my other sister pointed out how ridiculous this is. She keeps sending us crazy propaganda videos.


----------



## StormsMum2010

Boxer123 said:


> Unfortunately my younger sister is convinced this is true. This caused a bit of a family row a few days ago when my other sister pointed out how ridiculous this is. She keeps sending us crazy propaganda videos.


Good on your sister, she's got more intelligence that the rest of her family! Please offer my condolences, because I know how it feels!


----------



## DogLover1981

There has been some pretty disgusting behavior related to QAnon as well.


----------



## StormsMum2010

DogLover1981 said:


> QAnon is just as creepy as Scientology, IMO, and I hadn't heard of it until recently.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon
> 
> When people talk to me about conspiracy theories they believe, I just tell them I think they're an alien disguised as a human that's plotting to destroy humanity and take over the world. It's even possible that trying to get humans to believe in strange conspiracies is apart of their agenda too.  There's typically about the same amount of proof of both thoughts.


The term conspiracy theorist/theories was devised by the CIA to discredit anyone who saw through their lies.

The term sheeple was coined by the 'conspiracy theorists' of today, to describe people who do not question anything and follow like sheep!


----------



## MilleD

StormsMum2010 said:


> The term conspiracy theorist/theories was devised by the CIA to discredit anyone who saw through their lies.
> 
> The term sheeple was coined by the 'conspiracy theorists' of today, to describe people who do not question anything and follow like sheep!


Except the term 'conspiracy theory' has been cited as being in use long before the inception of the CIA.

Next.


----------



## StormsMum2010

MilleD said:


> Except the term 'conspiracy theory' has been cited as being in use long before the inception of the CIA.
> 
> Next.


No it hasn't.


----------



## MilleD

StormsMum2010 said:


> No, there hasn't. Again you're believing fake news (Mainstream media)...


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## MilleD

StormsMum2010 said:


> No it hasn't.


I'm 145 years old and remember seeing it in the early 1900s actually. Nothing to do with the media.

That's about as plausible as the things you are saying.


----------



## picaresque

StormsMum2010 said:


> The term sheeple was coined by the 'conspiracy theorists' of today, to describe people who do not question anything and follow like sheep!


There is a middle ground to be had. Are 'the powers that be' entirely trustworthy and honest? Obviously not. To assume that anyone who doesn't believe every conspiracy theory going (in a manner that can be... sheeplike...) isn't capable of independent thought is blinkered and arrogant.

In the words of Tim Minchin, if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> *Goes off and Does The Reseach - because that's what she's trained to do*


That was my job way back in the days before the interwebz. I used the card catalog at the library, microfiche, and the interlibrary loan system. It was tedious work but I found it interesting. Helped me pay for my masters at least  
Wish more people understood concepts like cross-checking information, and verifying sources.....



Boxer123 said:


> Unfortunately my younger sister is convinced this is true. This caused a bit of a family row a few days ago when my other sister pointed out how ridiculous this is. She keeps sending us crazy propaganda videos.


 Oh no I'm sorry to hear that. It can be tough when it's family


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> That was my job way back in the days before the interwebz. I used the card catalog at the library, microfiche, and the interlibrary loan system. It was tedious work but I found it interesting. Helped me pay for my masters at least
> Wish more people understood concepts like cross-checking information, and verifying sources.....
> 
> Oh no I'm sorry to hear that. It can be tough when it's family


Storm in a teacup they always fall out. I just think some of the videos are dangerous.


----------



## Magyarmum

StormsMum2010 said:


> No it hasn't.


If you done your research more thoroughly you'd know that the term "conspiracy theory" has been around since about 1870

https://theconversation.com/theres-...d-the-term-conspiracy-theory-heres-why-132117
*
There's a conspiracy theory that the CIA invented the term 'conspiracy theory' - here's why*

And don't bother to tell me that because it's what the mainstream media say it must be a lie


----------



## O2.0

Boxer123 said:


> I just think some of the videos are dangerous.


I agree. 
Most of the time I just chuckle at the ridiculousness, but then sometimes it really unsettles me how easily people are convinced. And you're right, some of the information being shared is indeed downright dangerous.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> I agree.
> Most of the time I just chuckle at the ridiculousness, but then sometimes it really unsettles me how easily people are convinced. And you're right, some of the information being shared is indeed downright dangerous.


I've just reported this one




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=947313349060088


----------



## StormsMum2010

Magyarmum said:


> I've just reported this one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=947313349060088


Oh, aren't you a good little citizen!


----------



## StormsMum2010

O2.0 said:


> I agree.
> Most of the time I just chuckle at the ridiculousness, but then sometimes it really unsettles me how easily people are convinced. And you're right, some of the information being shared is indeed downright dangerous.


Not dangerous at all, ONLY dangerous to the 'enemy', which is the deep state.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30251-8/fulltext
When the protein sequence of the SARS-CoV-2 receptor binding site was analyzed, an interesting result was found. While SARS-CoV-2 is overall more similar to bat coronaviruses, the receptor binding site was more similar to SARS-CoV.
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/...m/retrieve/pii/S0092867420302622?showall=true
Both SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV use the same host cell receptor. It also found that, for both viruses, the viral proteins used for host cell entry bind to the receptor with the same tightness (affinity).
Knowledge is power.
Q
https://qmap.pub/read/4114


----------



## O2.0

StormsMum2010 said:


> Not dangerous at all, ONLY dangerous to the 'enemy', which is the deep state.
> 
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/
> https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30251-8/fulltext
> When the protein sequence of the SARS-CoV-2 receptor binding site was analyzed, an interesting result was found. While SARS-CoV-2 is overall more similar to bat coronaviruses, the receptor binding site was more similar to SARS-CoV.
> https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30262-2?_returnURL=https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0092867420302622?showall=true
> Both SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV use the same host cell receptor. It also found that, for both viruses, the viral proteins used for host cell entry bind to the receptor with the same tightness (affinity).
> Knowledge is power.
> Q
> https://qmap.pub/read/4114


I'm not sure what point this is supposed to make? That coronaviruses are similar? Of course they are. That's nothing sinister. 
We also know most coronaviruses are zoonotic. That's not new or secret information. Nor is it that the last two SARS coronaviruses are thought to have originated in bats.


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> I'm not sure what point this is supposed to make? That coronaviruses are similar? Of course they are. That's nothing sinister.
> We also know most coronaviruses are zoonotic. That's not new or secret information. Nor is it that the last two SARS coronaviruses are thought to have originated in bats.


However as you say other coronovirus would have most of us unconscious when our oxygen levels fall too low. This coronovirus is keeping the host going when most of us should be unconscious from low oxygen. It's a nasty little so and so isn't it. Worrying for doctors how it's effecting peoples lungs without them really knowing.


----------



## Magyarmum

StormsMum2010 said:


> Oh, aren't you a good little citizen!


From that I take it you think I'm American?


----------



## StormsMum2010

Magyarmum said:


> From that I take it you think I'm American?


How is being 'a good little citizen' an American thing?


----------



## O2.0

StormsMum2010 said:


> How is being 'a good little citizen' an American thing?


May I ask what was the point/purpose of your comment to @Magyarmum then? About being a good little citizen? It sounds condescending when you say 'little' like that - is that how you meant it?


----------



## Magyarmum

StormsMum2010 said:


> How is being 'a good little citizen' an American thing?


Oh dear, do I really have to explain to you? 

OK, I try to do so as simply as possible.

The video was shot in Massachusetts which unless someone's moved it is located in the USA

According to the Oxford English Dictionary the definition of "citizen" is as follows .........

*"a person who is a member of a particular country and who has rights because of being born there or because of being given rights, or a person who lives in a particular town or city:"
*
Which is why I asked if you thought I was an American

Got it?
.


----------



## StormsMum2010

Magyarmum said:


> Oh dear, do I really have to explain to you?
> 
> OK, I try to do so as simply as possible.
> 
> The video was shot in Massachusetts which unless someone's moved it is located in the USA
> 
> According to the Oxford English Dictionary the definition of "citizen" is as follows .........
> 
> *"a person who is a member of a particular country and who has rights because of being born there or because of being given rights, or a person who lives in a particular town or city:"
> *
> Which is why I asked if you thought I was an American
> 
> Got it?
> .


Oh, so you can't be a citizen of anywhere else in the world, then?? 

Answering to O2.0

Yes, it was meant to be condescending. Because obviously Magyarmum thinks she has a duty to be a 'good little citizen' and report something to 'Fedbook', that she considers to be going against the globalist (Anti human) agenda, that she so obviously supports......A bit like 1984....


----------



## PFModerator

Can we please drop the personal comments and stay on topic?


----------



## PFModerator

We have said from the start of the Coronavirus Pandemic that there is no place for scaremongering and conspiracy theories on this *Pet Forum. *Any such material will be removed and where necessary threads will be closed and warnings issued.


----------



## O2.0

PFModerator said:


> We have said from the start of the Coronavirus Pandemic that there is no place for scaremongering and conspiracy theories on this *Pet Forum. *Any such material will be removed and where necessary threads will be closed and warnings issued.


Thank goodness for some sanity! Thank you!

Spent another Wednesday morning preparing and packing food to distribute in the community. My dear friend who overheard me saying we were low on toilet paper brought me a 12 pack that she found at Walmart, wouldn't let me pay her for it. 
Four hours laughing and chatting with friends and co-workers, got a good workout hauling boxes and packing buses. Good stuff. No politics, no conspiracies. Just people coming together to do what they can for our community and enjoying being together.

We're going to be okay


----------



## O2.0

The antivaxxers have arrived enguin
The newest (to me) video circulation FB is one from an antivaxx documentary, which among other things claims Dr. Fauci is involved in planning this pandemic, because he predicted it and warned us about it for years. 
You know, because when a meteorologist predicts damaging hail and then it happens, obviously it's a conspiracy on the meteorologist's part to cause damaging hail for their own benefit 

Anyway, I follow Dr. Garth Davis on FB and he posted an excellent article that not only debunks the documentary but offers some good, helpful information as well.
https://bigthink.com/coronavirus/the-plandemic?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1


----------



## lullabydream

O2.0 said:


> The antivaxxers have arrived enguin
> The newest (to me) video circulation FB is one from an antivaxx documentary, which among other things claims Dr. Fauci is involved in planning this pandemic, because he predicted it and warned us about it for years.
> You know, because when a meteorologist predicts damaging hail and then it happens, obviously it's a conspiracy on the meteorologist's part to cause damaging hail for their own benefit
> 
> Anyway, I follow Dr. Garth Davis on FB and he posted an excellent article that not only debunks the documentary but offers some good, helpful information as well.
> https://bigthink.com/coronavirus/the-plandemic?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1


Very much similar reasoning I have seen by conspiracy theorists claiming the government or whoever they are blaming knew or are responsible. Twisting pieces that have been said because to be honest, talk of pandemics which was said in the article has been worrisome for quite a while.. Probably decades people having been looking into them.

Obviously ironically or not, even Netflix has a documentary on pandemic, recorded last year. Would be interesting to see if those scientist are actually working now in the front line behind the scenes for the vaccines, and yes incidentally with a pandemic they had to interview those antivaxxers too.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> From that I take it you think I'm American?


I'd have thought the 'Magyar' bit might have given a bit of a clue.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> The antivaxxers have arrived enguin
> The newest (to me) video circulation FB is one from an antivaxx documentary, which among other things claims Dr. Fauci is involved in planning this pandemic, because he predicted it and warned us about it for years.
> You know, because when a meteorologist predicts damaging hail and then it happens, obviously it's a conspiracy on the meteorologist's part to cause damaging hail for their own benefit
> 
> Anyway, I follow Dr. Garth Davis on FB and he posted an excellent article that not only debunks the documentary but offers some good, helpful information as well.
> https://bigthink.com/coronavirus/the-plandemic?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1


This is worth reading as well.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-n...Ko2hol0ioo6fwqx3yICCwochevgfF3n-aC4REy_BjkywQ

*'What are we doing this for?': Doctors are fed up with conspiracies ravaging ERs*


----------



## O2.0

@StormsMum2010 can you imagine what it must be like to be a doctor - a real doctor, working in a real hospital, treating real patients for a real virus. You know this is happening, you see it first hand with your very eyes every day. Can you imagine what it must be like to go on line and have people saying it's all a hoax and isn't happening?


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> @StormsMum2010 can you imagine what it must be like to be a doctor - a real doctor, working in a real hospital, treating real patients for a real virus. You know this is happening, you see it first hand with your very eyes every day. Can you imagine what it must be like to go on line and have people saying it's all a hoax and isn't happening?


We have lost over 100 medical workers in the UK to Covid. Some young and previously healthy. The pain their families must be going through and then it's called a hoax.


----------



## Goldstar

StormsMum2010 said:


> NBC = FAKE NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :Arghh:Arghh:Arghh
> 
> Why don't you volunteer at a local hospital or care home? You'd get first hand confirmation that it's REAL then.
> It'd be a nice reality check for you.


----------



## PFModerator

Thread edited again to remove inappropriate comments. If this become necessary again the thread will be closed.


----------



## O2.0

Well right now I'm sat here eating wheat thins. Do you have wheat thins in the UK? They're a hard, salty, cracker thingie that I think you're supposed to eat with cheese. I like 'em plain. 
So I'm sat here eating these things and I jam the corner of one in my gum. Yikes that sucker is sharp. My gum is definitely injured. 
Then I got to thinking....

Wheat thins are made by Nabisco
Nabisco also owns crest - which makes products for oral care like toothpaste and mouthwash. 
What did I reach for when I injured my gum? Why mouthwash of course. To clean it off. 
But no! The mouthwash made it worse and made it hurt more. 
So then I started researching gum health, and you know what? There is a link between gum disease and heart disease. 
People who have gum infections are more likely to develop heart disease. 
You know what they prescribe for people who have heart disease? Lipitor. Guess who makes lipitor? 
Yep the same people who own nabisco and crest. 
Who stands to profit the most by you having heart disease? The makers of lipitor - who also happen to make wheat thins, that give you gum disease, and gum disease gives you heart disease. 
So there you go. Clearly Nabisco made the corners of wheat thins sharp to deliberately injure us in to needing lipitor which will only increase their profits.

Ritz crackers though are round. Did you ever wonder why they went from making round crackers to square ones? Obviously it's much harder to injure gums with round crackers, so they had to make them square. Bill Gates was in on that one, why do you think all his windows programs have square windows not porthole round ones like on ships? Wake up people!!!

In other news, one of Trump's personal valets has tested positive for covid-19. He's the one who served the president wheat thins. 
Okay the last part I made up. The first part is for real. 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/trump-valet-coronavirus-positive-us


----------



## DogLover1981

I was at a grocery store parking lot/car park for food about a month ago and I overheard a couple of people talking about how the virus is a hoax and they both seemed to think COVID-19 is all one big joke. I definitely kept my distance from them. O.O

These people could spread the virus and conspiracy theories regarding COVID-19 are potentially dangerous at the moment when seriously believed. I also think some people cope with dire situations by going into "denial mode" and I do wonder that about the people I encountered in the parking lot/car park.


----------



## Linda Weasel

What’s that thing about everything/everybody can be connected in x amounts of moves, if you try hard enough?

I know what I mean but Merlot has given me brain fog.


----------



## picaresque

Linda Weasel said:


> What's that thing about everything/everybody can be connected in x amounts of moves, if you try hard enough?
> 
> I know what I mean but Merlot has given me brain fog.


Six degrees of separation?


----------



## Linda Weasel

picaresque said:


> Six degrees of separation?


That's it! Thanks.


----------



## O2.0

This is excellent:


----------



## DogLover1981

O2.0 said:


> This is excellent:
> View attachment 438848


The other fact of note here is that when a conspiracy theory is directed at or about a particular person it could be considered slander/libel and people have been sued because of it.


----------



## Magyarmum

I seem to have missed all the fun, but that's what happens when you live in a different time zone. I did however see the reply to my post before I went to bed and with the moderators permission would like to reply to the following comment made by @StormsMum2010

[QUOT ]NBC = FAKE NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :Arghh:Arghh:Arghh

Why don't you volunteer at a local hospital or care home? You'd get first hand confirmation that it's REAL then.
It'd be a nice reality check for you."At the height of the HIV/AIDS epidemic I was living in South Africa working as a Fundraiser/Project Manager for a Mission Hospital which catered solely for the Zulu population living in the surrounding rural communities. The hospital had some 250 beds all of which, apart from about 20 in the Maternity Department, were full of adults, children, and babies dying of AIDS. It was heartbreaking!

Deaths at the hospital were running at around 30 per day and we were diagnosing at least a 100 new cases per day. I know because I was the one who kept the statistics and my office was next to the morgue and opposite the consultation rooms where people were given the news that they were going to die from this new and frightening disease.

In addition one of the projects I was in charge of was with the help of 16 volunteers, providing home based care for terminally il AIDS patients living in the scattered villages in our catchment area. Each volunteer cared for at least 6 patients and their families, many of who had already lost daughters, sons, parents and and were caring for the many orphaned children and babies .

We lived with this reality 24 hours a day, seven days a week, year after year! It was hell!

As with Covid-19 conspiracy theories ran rife, the most popular one being that it was a conspiracy by the former apartheid government with the help of the CIA, to reduce the black population, another theory was that HIV a global plot to reduce the population of the whole of Africa And it didn't help that the President and government were sending out mixed messages!

Soundsfamiliar?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-over-aids-crisis-in-south-africa-699302.html

*Conspiracy theories fuel row over Aids crisis in South Africa*

And along with the conspiracy theories came the "miracle" or "instant" cures, again something that's happening with the present virus. Violence and crime started to increased perpetrated mainly by youths who having been diagnosed with HIV, felt their life had been taken away from them. Perhaps the most horrific "cure" and one that still makes me sick to my stomach whenever I think of it was the myth that you would be cured of HIV if you had sex with a virgin. In most cases "the virgin" was a young child and even babies! In my hospital a three year old girl was brought in who'd been gang raped. Her injuries were so horrific the nuns prayed she'd die. She didn't.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17326-five-myths-about-hiv-and-aids/?ignored=irrelevant

*Five myths about HIV and AIDS*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/2311067.stm

*AIDS: A South African horror story*

Perhaps rather than me volunteering to work in a care home or hospital, you should and learn for yourself what is real? It would do you good and you might learn to differentiate between fact and fiction!


----------



## O2.0

@Magyarmum just to clarify, the quote you see got corrupted somehow when the mods did some weeding. 
Originally Stormsmum did say the fake news part. 
But the "why don't you volunteer..." part was said by @Goldstar to stormsmum. Stormsmum never suggested to you (or anyone) to volunteer.

Your post is still very useful though, these conspiracy theories do follow a similar pattern, they do crop up around the same sorts of events, so everything you posted I think still applies for anyone reading who might be even slightly swayed by these conspiracies.

The post I stole the graphic above from included other text which is worth sharing I think:

"Conspiracy theory stories follow rhetorical patterns. They're appealing because they satisfy certain psychological needs and they persist because they take time to logically deconstruct.

Looking for these patterns will help you better distinguish between what's most likely true and most likely false.

There are more "red flags" that don't fit on this current graphic, but which are currently quite relevant:

1) "Elevates the credibility of one credentialed expert who goes against the consensus of their entire credentialed expert peer group," e.g., one doctor vs pretty much all the other doctors, one scientist against pretty much all the other scientists.

Chances are, if 1 out of 1000 doctors says one thing contrary to the other 999, the 999 didn't just get together in order to trick you.

2) "Claims that being taken down for promoting misinformation is "censorship," which therefore, somehow, proves that the thing taken down is actually true.

There is no reason why something getting widely debunked and taken down would enhance the credibility of that thing.

Thanks for reading and thinking! If you haven't been to our site in a while, check out links below to see what's new.

Cheers,
Vanessa
Visit Ad Fontes Media Website
See CART News Literacy Platform for Educators"

Website here:
https://www.adfontesmedia.com/?v=402f03a963ba


----------



## Boxer123

Magyarmum said:


> I seem to have missed all the fun, but that's what happens when you live in a different time zone. I did however see the reply to my post before I went to bed and with the moderators permission would like to reply to the following comment made by @StormsMum2010
> 
> [QUOT ]NBC = FAKE NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :Arghh:Arghh:Arghh
> 
> Why don't you volunteer at a local hospital or care home? You'd get first hand confirmation that it's REAL then.
> It'd be a nice reality check for you."
> 
> At the height of the HIV/AIDS epidemic I was living in South Africa working as a Fundraiser/Project Manager for a Mission Hospital which catered solely for the Zulu population living in the surrounding rural communities. The hospital had some 250 beds all of which, apart from about 20 in the Maternity Department, were full of adults, children, and babies dying of AIDS. It was heartbreaking!
> 
> Deaths at the hospital were running at around 30 per day and we were diagnosing at least a 100 new cases per day. I know because I was the one who kept the statistics and my office was next to the morgue and opposite the consultation rooms where people were given the news that they were going to die from this new and frightening disease.
> 
> In addition one of the projects I was in charge of was with the help of 16 volunteers, providing home based care for terminally il AIDS patients living in the scattered villages in our catchment area. Each volunteer cared for at least 6 patients and their families, many of who had already lost daughters, sons, parents and and were caring for the many orphaned children and babies .
> 
> We lived with this reality 24 hours a day, seven days a week, year after year! It was hell!
> 
> As with Covid-19 conspiracy theories ran rife, the most popular one being that it was a conspiracy by the former apartheid government with the help of the CIA, to reduce the black population, another theory was that HIV a global plot to reduce the population of the whole of Africa And it didn't help that the President and government were sending out mixed messages!
> 
> Soundsfamiliar?
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-over-aids-crisis-in-south-africa-699302.html
> 
> *Conspiracy theories fuel row over Aids crisis in South Africa*
> 
> And along with the conspiracy theories came the "miracle" or "instant" cures, again something that's happening with the present virus. Violence and crime started to increased perpetrated mainly by youths who having been diagnosed with HIV, felt their life had been taken away from them. Perhaps the most horrific "cure" and one that still makes me sick to my stomach whenever I think of it was the myth that you would be cured of HIV if you had sex with a virgin. In most cases "the virgin" was a young child and even babies! In my hospital a three year old girl was brought in who'd been gang raped. Her injuries were so horrific the nuns prayed she'd die. She didn't.
> 
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17326-five-myths-about-hiv-and-aids/?ignored=irrelevant
> 
> *Five myths about HIV and AIDS*
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/2311067.stm
> 
> *AIDS: A South African horror story*
> 
> Perhaps rather than me volunteering to work in a care home or hospital, you should and learn for yourself what is real? It would do you good and you might learn to differentiate between fact and fiction!


I didn't want to like but this makes for informative reading. What scary times.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> @Magyarmum just to clarify, the quote you see got corrupted somehow when the mods did some weeding.
> Originally Stormsmum did say the fake news part.
> But the "why don't you volunteer..." part was said by @Goldstar to stormsmum. Stormsmum never suggested to you (or anyone) to volunteer.
> 
> Your post is still very useful though, these conspiracy theories do follow a similar pattern, they do crop up around the same sorts of events, so everything you posted I think still applies for anyone reading who might be even slightly swayed by these conspiracies.
> 
> The post I stole the graphic above from included other text which is worth sharing I think:
> 
> "Conspiracy theory stories follow rhetorical patterns. They're appealing because they satisfy certain psychological needs and they persist because they take time to logically deconstruct.
> 
> Looking for these patterns will help you better distinguish between what's most likely true and most likely false.
> 
> There are more "red flags" that don't fit on this current graphic, but which are currently quite relevant:
> 
> 1) "Elevates the credibility of one credentialed expert who goes against the consensus of their entire credentialed expert peer group," e.g., one doctor vs pretty much all the other doctors, one scientist against pretty much all the other scientists.
> 
> Chances are, if 1 out of 1000 doctors says one thing contrary to the other 999, the 999 didn't just get together in order to trick you.
> 
> 2) "Claims that being taken down for promoting misinformation is "censorship," which therefore, somehow, proves that the thing taken down is actually true.
> 
> There is no reason why something getting widely debunked and taken down would enhance the credibility of that thing.
> 
> Thanks for reading and thinking! If you haven't been to our site in a while, check out links below to see what's new.
> 
> Cheers,
> Vanessa
> Visit Ad Fontes Media Website
> See CART News Literacy Platform for Educators"
> 
> Website here:
> https://www.adfontesmedia.com/?v=402f03a963ba


Thanks for telling me. I thought it was a peculiar reply, but who am I to say what goes on in people's minds.

No doubt I'll hear more about it before too long

An interesting article by Robyn Curnow of CCN who is a South African living in the US. Reading it I get the feeling that she, like me, is experiencing a feeling of "deja vu".

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/02/...ce-trump-aids-robyn-curnow-opinion/index.html

*What happened when a president ignored the science on an epidemic*


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> No doubt I'll hear more about it before too long


Maybe not... She appears to have gotten herself banned. Which I'm sure will just add flames to the conspiracy theory fires - PF is in on it now too 

Thanks for the article, some frightening parallels for sure. 
I remember the early years of the AIDS scare well, the rumors circulating, weird 'cures' and unscientific nonsense about how it spread.

There was a fabulous book written about it - And the Band Played On which I read way back in the day. May have to re-read that one. 
Another book about the race between Montagnier and Gallo to be the first to identify the virus is now out of print, but I remember reading that one too and being floored at the politics and ego involved.


----------



## O2.0

Trump's valet tests positive for Covid-19
Pence's press secretary and wife of creepy Steve Miller tests positive for Covid-19

Pence announces he will not be self-isolating. Yet Dr Redfield, (head of CDC), Dr. Hahn (head of FDA) and Dr. Fauci (lead infectious disease expert) have all announced either complete quarantine or modified quarantine because they were all exposed to someone at the White House who tested positive. 

I think it's clear who cares if they infect others and who doesn't. Speaks volumes.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Trump's valet tests positive for Covid-19
> Pence's press secretary and wife of creepy Steve Miller tests positive for Covid-19
> 
> Pence announces he will not be self-isolating. Yet Dr Redfield, (head of CDC), Dr. Hahn (head of FDA) and Dr. Fauci (lead infectious disease expert) have all announced either complete quarantine or modified quarantine because they were all exposed to someone at the White House who tested positive.
> 
> I think it's clear who cares if they infect others and who doesn't. Speaks volumes.


Pence is such a creep and he's only following his great and glorious leader's example:Arghh!

This just about sums it up. Trump's attitude towards meeting the WW2 veterans all of whom are over 90!

And then he had the nerve to say that the media are more concerned over the veterans welfare than they are of him

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/09/dona...te-white-house-coronavirus-outbreak-12678606/
*
Donald Trump says he was fine to to go mask-less meet elderly WW2 veterans because it was windy*


----------



## Sandysmum

Ok, so according to the orange one, if we go where it's very windy, the wind will blow the plague away. I'd love to see the scientific evidence for that one! :Facepalm He seems to be living on another planet!!!!!!


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


> This just about sums it up. Trump's attitude towards meeting the WW2 veterans all of whom are over 90!
> 
> And then he had the nerve to say that the media are more concerned over the veterans welfare than they are of him


They should have fixed bayonets and formed a defensive perimeter...


----------



## DogLover1981

It's crazy that there's now a COVID-19 outbreak at the white house and the source is unknown. There's a bunch of people in quarantine too. O.O


----------



## Dave S

I have just watched a video of part of his press conference yesterday when he was rude to an Asian female reporter and then one of her colleagues after she asked him why he thought it was a competition over how many people were tested.

What an absolutely rude, racist, sexist ungrateful, irrational ****hole that man is. (hope I dod not miss anything out).

I sincerely hope he is not re-elected.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world...h-asian-american-reporter-over-nasty-question


----------



## Happy Paws2

What a rude man, I've never liked the Pr*T he's just a loud mouthed, self opinionated, bully, how he was ever elected is beyond me.


----------



## Magyarmum

Dave S said:


> I have just watched a video of part of his press conference yesterday when he was rude to an Asian female reporter and then one of her colleagues after she asked him why he thought it was a competition over how many people were tested.
> 
> What an absolutely rude, racist, sexist ungrateful, irrational ****hole that man is. (hope I dod not miss anything out).
> 
> I sincerely hope he is not re-elected.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world...h-asian-american-reporter-over-nasty-question


Here's what Stephen King thinks of him!


----------



## simplysardonic

jetsmum said:


> Ok, so according to the orange one, if we go where it's very windy, the wind will blow the plague away. I'd love to see the scientific evidence for that one! :Facepalm He seems to be living on another planet!!!!!!


He must have been chatting to Kevin Copeland


----------



## picaresque

simplysardonic said:


> He must have been chatting to Kevin Copeland


This guy has the most terrifying dead-behind-the-eyes smile I've ever seen.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> how he was ever elected is beyond me.


I think people thought anything was better than Hillary.


----------



## Dave S

Magyarmum said:


> Here's what Stephen King thinks of him!


Doesn't mix with his words does he.

He wont be getting a medal of honour from him I guess.


----------



## Sandysmum

simplysardonic said:


> He must have been chatting to Kevin Copeland


That's the funniest thing I've seen this week


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Magyarmum

Time couldn't be more blunt than this


----------



## cheekyscrip

Happy Paws2 said:


> What a rude man, I've never liked the Pr*T he's just a loud mouthed, self opinionated, bully, how he was ever elected is beyond me.


Same as Boris. Here the alternative was Corbyn.


----------



## Magyarmum

Today's Lancet wrote a very scathing article about the US Covid-19 response and how POTUS undermined the CDC. It even went as far as saying, and I quote ................

* "Americans must put a president in the White House come January 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics."*

https://www.republicworld.com/world...slammed-by-worlds-most-rewarded-journals.html

*US' COVID-19 Response Slammed By One Of The World's Most Rewarded Medical Journals*


----------



## mrs phas

Magyarmum said:


> Here's what Stephen King thinks of him!



Sounds like a good ad for Pepsi


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Happy Paws2

Sometimes words fail me, with this stupid man


----------



## Bisbow

I can't understand why e has not been sectioned yet


----------



## Jesthar

Bisbow said:


> I can't understand why e has not been sectioned yet


He's got money. Which, historically speaking, is the critical medical symptom in deciding whether someone is a nutcase or merely 'eccentric'

Besides, the US is NEVER going to be able to admit it elected a total wingnut to be President...


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> He's got money. Which, historically speaking, is the critical medical symptom in deciding whether someone is a nutcase or merely 'eccentric'
> 
> Besides, the US is NEVER going to be able to admit it elected a total wingnut to be President...


There aren't enough votes in the Senate to remove him which is why he's still in office.


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


> There aren't enough votes in the Senate to remove him which is why he's still in office.


Well, yes. Despite being impeached. He was a good candidagte for being sectioned before he was ever elected, though...


----------



## Magyarmum

Jesthar said:


> Well, yes. Despite being impeached. He was a good candidagte for being sectioned before he was ever elected, though...


If you got rid of him you'd then have Mike Pence as President which could be just as bad


----------



## Happy Paws2

Bisbow said:


> I can't understand why e has not been sectioned yet


You make a good point.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Bisbow said:


> I can't understand why e has not been* sectioned* yet


Just to add to my last post, if he gets voted in again everyone how votes for should be as well.


----------



## mrs phas

Bisbow said:


> I can't understand why e has not been sectioned yet


lets face it
with all due respect to our oversees members
they did elect someone, who was known to have alzheimers, to a second term too
Thankfully all the power was behind the throne in that case
along with a wife who had more balls than most blokes in the senate, and kept him protected
unlike the shredded wheat haired guy and his seen but not heard mannequin


----------



## Blackadder

In a very perverse way I think he's great  The entertainment value of his "briefings" is off the scale, it's a certainty that he will come out with something totally mental!
I watch Boris, Matt Hancock etc & after 5 mins I'm bored but with Trump I know it's going to happen, he will deliver....

Having said that I think he's the worst president I've ever seen & is a dangerous, disgusting excuse for a human being but for pure "WOW" value, he's untouchable 

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he gets re-elected in November.


----------



## Magyarmum

Blackadder said:


> In a very perverse way I think he's great  The entertainment value of his "briefings" is off the scale, it's a certainty that he will come out with something totally mental!
> I watch Boris, Matt Hancock etc & after 5 mins I'm bored but with Trump I know it's going to happen, he will deliver....
> 
> Having said that I think he's the worst president I've ever seen & is a dangerous, disgusting excuse for a human being but for pure "WOW" value, he's untouchable
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he gets re-elected in November.


I totally agree with you. Living in Hungary I miss my British. soapies and the US President is the next best thing.

I was totally bereft when he announced he was discontinuing his briefings.:Bawling And could have(well almost) kissed him when he changed his mind.

I don't quite know what I'll do if he's not re-elected. Life will never be the same without him :Arghh


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> I totally agree with you. Living in Hungary I miss my British. soapies and the US President is the next best thing.
> I was totally bereft when he announced he was discontinuing his briefings.:Bawling And could have(well almost) kissed him when he changed his mind.
> I don't quite know what I'll do if he's not re-elected. *Life will never be the same without him* :Arghh


but it will a lot safer.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> but it will a lot safer.


True


----------



## Sandysmum

Wouldn't it be fun if we found out that it's all some kind of secret reality show! He did The Apprentice, so why not , The President? 
Meanwhile, while he's entertaining us with all his silly jokes and one liners, the real administration is quietly working away behind the scenes and doing a good job of it. But we don't know that yet, and when the reveal comes there'll be a collective sigh of relief around the world.


----------



## Magyarmum

jetsmum said:


> Wouldn't it be fun if we found out that it's all some kind of secret reality show! He did The Apprentice, so why not , The President?
> Meanwhile, while he's entertaining us with all his silly jokes and one liners, the real administration is quietly working away behind the scenes and doing a good job of it. But we don't know that yet, and when the reveal comes there'll be a collective sigh of relief around the world.


Aren't the behind the scenes blokes called QAnon?


----------



## O2.0

mrs phas said:


> lets face it
> with all due respect to our oversees members
> they did elect someone, who was known to have alzheimers, to a second term too
> Thankfully all the power was behind the throne in that case
> along with a wife who had more balls than most blokes in the senate, and kept him protected
> unlike the shredded wheat haired guy and his seen but not heard mannequin


I always thought Alzheimer's was Regan's karma for his "I don't remember" claims during the Iran Contra investigation.

To be honest, I'm more concerned with Trumps intrinsic personality than his mental state. Regan was a train wreck, but I think all in all he was a decent, albeit flawed person. He loved, he had empathy, he had a heart.

Trump is none of these things. His utter lack of empathy during this pandemic is so blatant, I don't know how people can pretend not to see it. 
Or when he mocked a disabled reporter.
Or when he said John McCain wasn't a hero because he was caught.
Or all the horrible things he has said about women. 
Etc., etc., etc.

He doesn't even know how to _pretend_ to be a decent human being. And that so many Americans don't see his lack of humanity, or see it and don't think it disqualifies him from a position of leadership is very, very disturbing.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Magyarmum said:


> True


Very.

When Trump started shaking his fist at China and Chinese economy started slowing down we discussed with friends how this will end as it was obvious Chine will not take it lying down.

Now we know.

Considering he won by a whisker and that events in UK have influenced the election not to mention the likes of Farage...

Oh well...


----------



## Magyarmum

cheekyscrip said:


> Very.
> 
> When Trump started shaking his fist at China and Chinese economy started slowing down we discussed with friends how this will end as it was obvious Chine will not take it lying down.
> 
> Now we know.
> 
> Considering he won by a whisker and that events in UK have influenced the election not to mention the likes of Farage...
> 
> Oh well...


I.m not quite sure what you're trying to say. Are you insinuating China released the virus in retaliation to Trump's threats?

If so, what facts do you have to substantiate that claim? If not could you explain what you mean?


----------



## cheekyscrip

Magyarmum said:


> I.m not quite sure what you're trying to say. Are you insinuating China released the virus in retaliation to Trump's threats?
> 
> If so, what facts do you have to substantiate that claim? If not could you explain what you mean?


No idea. I understand though that they knew about it at least in November, preparing for it, at the same time hiding it . Until could not hide it anymore.
Seems it was in France in December.
Lots of misleading information too.

In 2017 scientists were alarmed about poor safety- in labs in Wuhan where the coronavirus and Ebola were researched.

Why China did not inform about the epidemic?


----------



## Magyarmum

cheekyscrip said:


> View attachment 439880
> 
> No idea. I understand though that they knew about it at least in November, preparing for it, at the same time hiding it . Until could not hide it anymore.
> Seems it was in France in December.
> Lots of misleading information too.
> 
> In 2017 scientists were alarmed about poor safety- in labs in Wuhan where the coronavirus and Ebola were researched.
> 
> Why China did not inform about the epidemic?


Just wondered that's all. Your reply sounded so mysterious that for a moment I wondered whether you might have fallen for a conspiracy theory, but then dismissed the idea because I'm certain you're far too sensible and intelligent for that


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...m_term=Trump admits taking hydroxychloroquine

* U.S. President Donald Trump, in a surprise announcement, said on Monday he is taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventive medicine against the coronavirus despite medical warnings about the use of the malaria drug.*

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...heighten-risk-cardiac-arrest-how-can-doctors#

*Antimalarials widely used against COVID-19 heighten risk of cardiac arrest. How can doctors minimize the danger?*


----------



## Calvine

Blackadder said:


> In a very perverse way I think he's great  The entertainment value of his "briefings" is off the scale, it's a certainty that he will come out with something totally mental!
> I watch Boris, Matt Hancock etc & after 5 mins I'm bored but with Trump I know it's going to happen, he will deliver....
> 
> Having said that I think he's the worst president I've ever seen & is a dangerous, disgusting excuse for a human being but for pure "WOW" value, he's untouchable
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he gets re-elected in November.


I totally agree: it is impossible to dislike someone who is guaranteed to make you laugh every day. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets in either. They said he hadn't a hope in Hell last time.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Blackadder said:


> In a very perverse way I think he's great  The entertainment value of his "briefings" is off the scale, it's a certainty that he will come out with something totally mental!
> I watch Boris, Matt Hancock etc & after 5 mins I'm bored but with Trump I know it's going to happen, he will deliver....
> 
> Having said that I think he's the worst president I've ever seen & is a dangerous, disgusting excuse for a human being but for pure "WOW" value, he's untouchable
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he gets re-elected in November.


He does make you laugh at times which is very worrying for a president and thought that American people would be silly enough to vote him in again after his performance over the last months fills me with dread, are they really that stupid.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> He does make you laugh at times which is very worrying for a president and thought that American people would be silly enough to vote him in again after his performance over the last months fills me with dread, are they really that stupid.


Unfortunately I think the answer is a resounding "YES"


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2020-05-19-trump-says-he-is-taking-hydroxychloroquine-despite-fda-warning/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=First Thing Tuesday 19 May 2020 Investec&utm_content=First Thing Tuesday 19 May 2020 Investec+CID_d945bc75120be6457a4137b2b5df0bb2&utm_source=TouchBasePro&utm_term=Trump admits taking hydroxychloroquine
> 
> * U.S. President Donald Trump, in a surprise announcement, said on Monday he is taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventive medicine against the coronavirus despite medical warnings about the use of the malaria drug.*
> 
> https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...heighten-risk-cardiac-arrest-how-can-doctors#
> 
> *Antimalarials widely used against COVID-19 heighten risk of cardiac arrest. How can doctors minimize the danger?*


That interview was shown on BBC news this morning


----------



## Siskin

Been sent this






Important Decision - Test Yourself!!

THE ONE-QUESTION MORALITY QUIZ
This test has only one question—but it's a very important one. By giving an honest answer, you will discover where you stand morally. The test features an unlikely and completely fictional situation, in which you will have to make a decision. Only you will know the results, so remember that your answer needs to be completely honest

THE SITUATION:
You are in Palm Beach, with chaos all around you, caused by a hurricane. There is a flood of biblical proportions. You are a photojournalist, working for a major newspaper, and you're caught in the middle of this epic disaster. The situation is nearly hopeless. You're trying to shoot career-making photos. There are houses and people swirling around you, some disappearing under the water. Nature is unleashing all its destructive fury.

THE TEST:
Suddenly you see a man in the water. He is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken down with the debris. You move closer. Somehow this man looks like...WOW --- it's Donald Trump! At the same time, you realize the raging waters are about to take him under forever.


YOU HAVE TWO OPTIONS:

You can save the life of Donald Trump, OR you can shoot a dramatic, Pulitzer-Prize-winning photo, documenting the last minute of one of the world's most powerful and evil men, who is hell-bent on destroying the USA.

YOUR DECISION: Here's the question, and please give an honest answer:

Would you:

( A) select high-contrast colour film, or

( B) go with the classic simplicity of black and white?


----------



## Cully

Magyarmum said:


> Unfortunately I think the answer is a resounding "YES"


Maybe if he continues with the hydroxychloroquine he wont be around then!!


----------



## Cully

Siskin said:


> Been sent this
> 
> Important Decision - Test Yourself!!
> 
> THE ONE-QUESTION MORALITY QUIZ
> This test has only one question-but it's a very important one. By giving an honest answer, you will discover where you stand morally. The test features an unlikely and completely fictional situation, in which you will have to make a decision. Only you will know the results, so remember that your answer needs to be completely honest
> 
> THE SITUATION:
> You are in Palm Beach, with chaos all around you, caused by a hurricane. There is a flood of biblical proportions. You are a photojournalist, working for a major newspaper, and you're caught in the middle of this epic disaster. The situation is nearly hopeless. You're trying to shoot career-making photos. There are houses and people swirling around you, some disappearing under the water. Nature is unleashing all its destructive fury.
> 
> THE TEST:
> Suddenly you see a man in the water. He is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken down with the debris. You move closer. Somehow this man looks like...WOW --- it's Donald Trump! At the same time, you realize the raging waters are about to take him under forever.
> 
> YOU HAVE TWO OPTIONS:
> 
> You can save the life of Donald Trump, OR you can shoot a dramatic, Pulitzer-Prize-winning photo, documenting the last minute of one of the world's most powerful and evil men, who is hell-bent on destroying the USA.
> 
> YOUR DECISION: Here's the question, and please give an honest answer:
> 
> Would you:
> 
> ( A) select high-contrast colour film, or
> 
> ( B) go with the classic simplicity of black and white?


The highest magnification I can get.


----------



## Jesthar

Siskin said:


> YOUR DECISION: Here's the question, and please give an honest ansswer:
> 
> Would you:
> 
> ( A) select high-contrast colour film, or
> 
> ( B) go with the classic simplicity of black and white?


( C) RAW digital format, then I can pick afterwards!


----------



## O2.0

Oh and appreciate the posts about how stupid Americans are


----------



## SbanR

Siskin said:


> Been sent this
> 
> Important Decision - Test Yourself!!
> 
> THE ONE-QUESTION MORALITY QUIZ
> This test has only one question-but it's a very important one. By giving an honest answer, you will discover where you stand morally. The test features an unlikely and completely fictional situation, in which you will have to make a decision. Only you will know the results, so remember that your answer needs to be completely honest
> 
> THE SITUATION:
> You are in Palm Beach, with chaos all around you, caused by a hurricane. There is a flood of biblical proportions. You are a photojournalist, working for a major newspaper, and you're caught in the middle of this epic disaster. The situation is nearly hopeless. You're trying to shoot career-making photos. There are houses and people swirling around you, some disappearing under the water. Nature is unleashing all its destructive fury.
> 
> THE TEST:
> Suddenly you see a man in the water. He is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken down with the debris. You move closer. Somehow this man looks like...WOW --- it's Donald Trump! At the same time, you realize the raging waters are about to take him under forever.
> 
> YOU HAVE TWO OPTIONS:
> 
> You can save the life of Donald Trump, OR you can shoot a dramatic, Pulitzer-Prize-winning photo, documenting the last minute of one of the world's most powerful and evil men, who is hell-bent on destroying the USA.
> 
> YOUR DECISION: Here's the question, and please give an honest answer:
> 
> Would you:
> 
> ( A) select high-contrast colour film, or
> 
> ( B) go with the classic simplicity of black and white?


I feel this is a trick question n the answer should be 'save him' and earn yourself a halo

There's no link for the answer?


----------



## Calvine

Cully said:


> Maybe if he continues with the hydroxychloroquine he wont be around then!!


 I don't know . . . he seems to be invincible; he even survived the impeachment (I knew he would!).


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2020-05-19-trump-says-he-is-taking-hydroxychloroquine-despite-fda-warning/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=First Thing Tuesday 19 May 2020 Investec&utm_content=First Thing Tuesday 19 May 2020 Investec+CID_d945bc75120be6457a4137b2b5df0bb2&utm_source=TouchBasePro&utm_term=Trump admits taking hydroxychloroquine
> 
> * U.S. President Donald Trump, in a surprise announcement, said on Monday he is taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventive medicine against the coronavirus despite medical warnings about the use of the malaria drug.*


I'm afraid the press will have a lot to answer for if there is a subsequent shortage of the drug for RA etc. It's all they've been reporting today...


----------



## mrs phas

SbanR said:


> I feel this is a trick question n the answer should be 'save him' and earn yourself a halo
> 
> There's no link for the answer?


its a joke
the answer is in there plain as day



Cully said:


> Maybe if he continues with the hydroxychloroquine he wont be around then!!


some have been on hydroxy a long time, Im on double his dose daily, others even more, for various illnesses and autoimmune conditions
Ive been on it since 1993, in 27 years theres been no better drug found
what really grinds my gizzard is, because of his unsubstantiated view of the drug, the, again unsubstantiated, telling people it is effective against cov-19, and, the fact its available over the counter in USA, many who need it to function and, tbf, stay alive, can no longer fill their prescriptions, because its either sold out, or, the drug companies are holding it back JIC


----------



## catz4m8z

Magyarmum said:


> fallen for a conspiracy theory,





Cully said:


> Maybe if he continues with the hydroxychloroquine he wont be around then!!


So the question is is the orange cockwomble taking a direct kickback from some shady pharmaceutical company or are they just funding his campaign...you know, all 'above board'. :Bored
oh, who am I kidding!! When somebody discovers his connection to said company he will just scream 'fake news!' and prance away whilst the s*** just slides off of him and his teflon tan!

:Shifty


----------



## O2.0

Either Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine against the recommendations of his government officials and health experts, or he's not really taking it and lying about it. 
Both seem very real possibilities to me.



mrs phas said:


> Im on double his dose daily, others even more, for various illnesses and autoimmune conditions
> Ive been on it since 1993, in 27 years theres been no better drug found


As I understand it, it's not being on the drug that's the issue. It's being on the drug while also fighting Covid-19. If he gets sick with Covid-19 and is on the drug, it could increase his chances for problematic heart issues.

What I'm trying to figure out is how all these conspiracy theorist antivaxxers who think Bill Gates is trying to profit from a covid-19 vaccine, don't have the same suspicions about someone repeatedly promoting the benefits of hydroxychloroquine. Trump has a small financial link to the manufacturer of this drug.


----------



## Cully

I just can't take anyone even half seriously who out of the blue and without thought for the wide audience who would hear him, calmly said it was ok to take bleach internally. I'm still shaking my head over that one. He's capable of anything with no thought for any consequences.


----------



## Cully

SbanR said:


> I feel this is a trick question n the answer should be 'save him' and earn yourself a halo
> 
> There's no link for the answer?


There's a choice of 2 answers, but whichever you choose he still ends up shark food. That's the joke.


----------



## cheekyscrip

O2.0 said:


> Oh and appreciate the posts about how stupid Americans are


They voted for Trump.
Only minority of those who did actually knew they were sure to benefit from it.
Then Americans are not the only ones...
Turkey, Hungary, Poland and some more...
But if they vote him in again they then they definitely take the biscuit.


----------



## Cully

cheekyscrip said:


> They voted for Trump.
> Only minority of those who did actually knew they were sure to benefit from it.
> Then Americans are not the only ones...
> Turkey, Hungary, Poland and some more...
> But if they vote him in again they then they definitely take the biscuit.


Rock and a hard place come to mind.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Magyarmum said:


> Just wondered that's all. Your reply sounded so mysterious that for a moment I wondered whether you might have fallen for a conspiracy theory, but then dismissed the idea because I'm certain you're far too sensible and intelligent for that


Let's say I keep open mind... would not dismiss it outright especially that I am not a great believer in coincidences...
The recession hits the West but for Asia it will be a leap forward.
Wish you many years in good health so we might find out...

100 countries now demand new, independent of WHO investigation.

Australia pushing hard.
Even Russia joined it.


----------



## Happy Paws2

O2.0 said:


> Oh and appreciate the posts about how stupid Americans are


I'm just hoping they aren't.


----------



## Blackadder

The gift that keeps on giving.... women must be so driven to vote for him!

Watch from the start, only 12 seconds or so 'till the golden goose lays the egg  No need to watch the rest.






If we didn't already know, the word "sexist" might apply!


----------



## mrs phas

The mans more than sexist, hes been outed, by himself, as a pervert when it comes to women ( anyone remember the grabbing womens pussys quote?)
but still,
many, many, many of the women of America, helped vote him in
including, im embarrassed to say, my SIL,( english married to an american) but then she lives in ******* country, and, is married to an ex marine, so nuff said 
it seems the vast amount of the people of America, in general, cannot see what a world wide laughing stock the man is
Somehow, although not being American, i wish Obama had still been in charge, the man had his faults, but boy they werent the doozies and zingers this buffon is happy with
and
he was a great leader, respected all over the world
same as, although never having voted tory in my life, I wish Cameron was still in charge, here in UK, (despite the whole debacle that plunged us into brexit)
rather than Trumps mini me

Both instilled so much more respect and confidence in their own countrys, and around the world, than either have now


----------



## cheekyscrip

mrs phas said:


> The mans more than sexist, hes been outed, by himself, as a pervert when it comes to women ( anyone remember the grabbing womens pussys quote?)
> but still,
> many, many, many of the women of America, helped vote him in
> including, im embarrassed to say, my SIL,( english married to an american) but then she lives in ******* country, and, is married to an ex marine, so nuff said
> it seems the vast amount of the people of America, in general, cannot see what a world wide laughing stock the man is
> Somehow, although not being American, i wish Obama had still been in charge, the man had his faults, but boy they werent the doozies and zingers this buffon is happy with
> and
> he was a great leader, respected all over the world
> same as, although never having voted tory in my life, I wish Cameron was still in charge, here in UK, (despite the whole debacle that plunges us into brexit)
> rather than Trumps mini me
> 
> Both instilled so much more respect and confidence in their own countrys, and around the world, than either have now


Well said.

How anyone can laugh at Trump and then vote for his British Twin beats me.
I heard those who are as quick to ridicule Trump as they are to defend the other for exactly the same turn of mind!!!

And then we got global pandemic and both failed to see the seriousness of it and nothing to laugh about now.

Why needs experts? We all can drink Domestos!!!
They are both very entertaining and people somehow think it is a show.

In comparison our plump Chief Minister never embarrassed us like any of those two.


----------



## O2.0

mrs phas said:


> Somehow, although not being American, i wish Obama had still been in charge,


Sorry, your syntax is throwing me off. Do you mean you're not an American or that Obama is not an American?


----------



## Calvine

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-says-us-having-235100440.html

Badge of honour . . . you could not make this up!:Hilarious


----------



## Calvine

cheekyscrip said:


> How anyone can laugh at Trump and then vote for his British Twin beats me.


It was him or Corbyn, as I recall, or that Jo Wots-her-name.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-says-us-having-235100440.html
> 
> Badge of honour . . . you could not make this up!:Hilarious


He's right when he says the US has done more tests than anywhere else in the world.

However if you're talking about the number of tests per million of the population, then the US has done fewer than many other countries.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


----------



## Happy Paws2

You couldn't make it up could you, I do wonder about the man sanity,


----------



## Happy Paws2

I wish they'd bring "Spitting Images" back they'd have plenty of material with DT and BJ to keep them going for months.


----------



## Elles

The looney left shouldn’t have got so extreme should they. Rather Donald Trump and Boris Johnson than those lunatics.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> He's right when he says the US has done more tests than anywhere else in the world.
> 
> However if you're talking about the number of tests per million of the population, then the US has done fewer than many other countries.
> 
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


It's the way he's making it out to be some sort of macabre competition that is so hysterical. He's a gas, isn't he.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Calvine said:


> It was him or Corbyn, as I recall, or that Jo Wots-her-name.


Very true.
I was glad I could not vote.

Still....


----------



## Happy Paws2

Elles said:


> The looney left shouldn't have got so extreme should they. Rather Donald Trump and Boris Johnson than those lunatics.


I rather have anyone else rather BJ.


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> I wish they'd bring "Spitting Images" back they'd have plenty of material with DT and BJ to keep them going for months.


Oh I loved that ! I think they did a one off not long ago.

Did you ever watch 2DTV ? Pres Bush and the glove puppet. :Hilarious






ETA Just realised it has Robin Cook MP ,who sadly died , at then end.


----------



## Magyarmum

*News Thump
Wednesday 20 May 2020 by Runi Talwar*

*Trump praised for uniting America as Democrats and Republicans both agree that he should be allowed to put his life in danger*









*US President and owner of several top-quality bottles of Snake Oil, Donald Trump, is being hailed a 'hero' for his actions this week, after Democrats and Republicans across the political spectrum came together in agreement that Trump should be allowed to ingest whatever dangerous chemicals he wants.*

The President made headlines earlier in the week after it was revealed he is taking the experimental, non-FDA approved drug hydroxychloroquine to ward against the coronavirus.

Despite there being zero evidence of the drug's effectiveness, Mr Trump has been adamant that the 'miracle drug' has been the only reason he hasn't caught the virus himself, and the fact that he has the best healthcare available to any single person on the planet was "a bonus".

"I'm taking it because I've heard good things about it," said Trump. "Such good things. I heard it can cure cancer - that's a true story. I actually told the lab technician how they can make it even better, so it can cure everything. I did that. I did that for everyone."

Despite an increasingly polarised political landscape, several top Democrats and Republicans have released statements today where they have categorically agreed that Trump should absolutely be allowed to ingest as many dangerous, untested chemicals as he wants.

"As a Republican, there is nothing more important to us than each individual's personal freedom to blindly support Trump," said Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

"If the President says this drug will cure cancer, then I'll give my butler cancer myself to prove that it can!

Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, also released a statement.

"I'd like to commend Trump on his decision, and would like to remind him that he also once suggested we should all drink bleach, he might want to go back and look at that one too."


----------



## Calvine

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...iveness-of-trumps-hydroxychloroquine-11991901

Well, I never. Dated today.


----------



## SbanR

Calvine said:


> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...iveness-of-trumps-hydroxychloroquine-11991901
> 
> Well, I never. Dated today.


Yesterday Metro news feed gave report that Australian health workers participating in trial


----------



## Jesthar

Calvine said:


> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...iveness-of-trumps-hydroxychloroquine-11991901
> 
> Well, I never. Dated today.





SbanR said:


> Yesterday Metro news feed gave report that Australian health workers participating in trial


Nothing particularly unusual about that - there's a chance it might benefit in some cases, and you need proper clinical trials to determine whether it's worth it. There have already been some trials (with wildly varing levels of both quality and results I'm not qualified to interpret), but at least some proper studies might srt this out one way or another.

It's just a shame people might have to die because Number 45 can't control his verbal diarrhea. Maybe we need to research a drug for that...


----------



## Calvine

SbanR said:


> Yesterday Metro news feed gave report that Australian health workers participating in trial


He will be so proud of himself now thinking he's the saviour of the world! Maybe he's not as bonkers as we thought, eh? Politicians in this country don't give us half as much entertainment, do they?


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Magyarmum

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-lose-2020-election-landslide-221350340.html

*Trump to lose 2020 election in a landslide defeat, model predicts*


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-lose-2020-election-landslide-221350340.html
> 
> *Trump to lose 2020 election in a landslide defeat, model predicts*


Dont get my hopes up!


----------



## O2.0

Now he says he won't wear a mask because he doesn't want to give the press the satisfaction of him finally donning one 
Jon Katz's latest blog is pretty spot on. The man is mentally ill. 
https://www.bedlamfarm.com/2020/05/22/understanding-trump-the-day-he-took-off-his-mask/


----------



## Dave S

It's a very interesting, and long read but it perhaps solves some of his traits. It does not excuse any of them though.


----------



## Sandysmum

I wonder if any world leader has ever been removed from office for being mentally unstable? Not pointing fingers, just asking a question about history !


----------



## kimthecat

Happy Paws2 said:


> I wish they'd bring "Spitting Images" back they'd have plenty of material with DT and BJ to keep them going for months.


Apparently there is a new series on Britbox that was shown in march. I hope it makes it to mainstream TV !


----------



## Magyarmum

jetsmum said:


> I wonder if any world leader has ever been removed from office for being mentally unstable? Not pointing fingers, just asking a question about history !


I suppose if you considered him a "world leader" one could say that King George 111 was forced to abdicate due to mental illness.

https://www.roughdiplomacy.com/the-abdication-of-mad-king-george-2/

*The Abdication of Mad King George*

There's an interesting article by David Owen about serious illnesses in Heads of State which is quite revealing!

https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/96/5/325/1551292

*Diseased, demented, depressed: serious illness in Heads of State*


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> I suppose if you considered him a "world leader" one could say that King George 111 was forced to abdicate due to mental illness.
> 
> https://www.roughdiplomacy.com/the-abdication-of-mad-king-george-2/
> 
> *The Abdication of Mad King George*
> 
> There's an interesting article by David Owen about serious illnesses in Heads of State which is quite revealing!
> 
> https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/96/5/325/1551292
> 
> *Diseased, demented, depressed: serious illness in Heads of State*


A very long read but extremely interesting. Thank you


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Magyarmum

Long overdue!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/26/...9226&user_id=0d3964d560dfc60357f823e3f801ef47

*Twitter Refutes Inaccuracies in Trump's Tweets for First Time*
Twitter added a link to two of President Trump's tweets in which he had made false claims about mail-in ballots, urging people to "get the facts."


----------



## Happy Paws2

He wouldn't know a true fact if he fell over one.


----------



## Magyarmum

*News Thump

Wednesday 27 May 2020 by Davywavy*

*Man who loves free speech really unhappy when people use it to disagree with him*









*A man who makes a really big deal about how important he thinks free speech is, continues to have a massive hissy fit if anyone uses theirs to call out his bullshit, it has emerged.*

Donald Trump, who is the president of the United States, seems to be under the impression that free speech means he gets to say what he likes and that other people are oppressing him by telling him he's talking bollocks.

Trump, whose bio includes his job title so you can't help but know how important it is, responded with fury when other Twitter users used their own free speech to publicly correct him for spouting a whole heap of easily disproved nonsense and fact-free opinion under the guise of 'open debate'.

Responding to suggestions that his beliefs about fraud from mail-in ballots appear to be largely the product of his own imagination and unsupported by either the observations of science or the evidence of his own eyes, Trump called his critics Fascists who are trying to fix the election.

"I think it's important that people are allowed to express challenging ideas and they should be free to be heard in a public forum," he said shortly before ragequitting because someone challenged his freely-shared ideas in a public forum.

He added, "This is what's wrong with society - if I ran the Internet it would be a true meritocracy where my ideas would be given their chance to shine, and everyone would think for themselves and agree with me."

-


----------



## SusieRainbow

Magyarmum said:


> *News Thump
> 
> Wednesday 27 May 2020 by Davywavy*
> 
> *Man who loves free speech really unhappy when people use it to disagree with him*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A man who makes a really big deal about how important he thinks free speech is, continues to have a massive hissy fit if anyone uses theirs to call out his bullshit, it has emerged.*
> 
> Donald Trump, who is the president of the United States, seems to be under the impression that free speech means he gets to say what he likes and that other people are oppressing him by telling him he's talking bollocks.
> 
> Trump, whose bio includes his job title so you can't help but know how important it is, responded with fury when other Twitter users used their own free speech to publicly correct him for spouting a whole heap of easily disproved nonsense and fact-free opinion under the guise of 'open debate'.
> 
> Responding to suggestions that his beliefs about fraud from mail-in ballots appear to be largely the product of his own imagination and unsupported by either the observations of science or the evidence of his own eyes, Trump called his critics Fascists who are trying to fix the election.
> 
> "I think it's important that people are allowed to express challenging ideas and they should be free to be heard in a public forum," he said shortly before ragequitting because someone challenged his freely-shared ideas in a public forum.
> 
> He added, "This is what's wrong with society - if I ran the Internet it would be a true meritocracy where my ideas would be given their chance to shine, and everyone would think for themselves and agree with me."
> 
> -


This is absolutely my view on 'free speech'!
I get so annoyed with people who 'exercise their right to free speech' and can't handle the consequences. Talk about double standards !


----------



## O2.0

And now he wants to regulate social media....


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> And now he wants to regulate social media....


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/27/...GYSHeQxdrAVfyUpekORT5nC8w&bt_ts=1590636125561

*Trump threatens to crack down on social media platforms after Twitter labels his tweets*


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Calvine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-51063149

Apologies if this was already posted.


----------



## Sandysmum

Calvine said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-51063149
> Apologies if this was already posted.


Oh dear, poor baby didn't win a prize then


----------



## Magyarmum

Coronavirus seems to have been forgotten and the death of George Floyd is hitting the headlines..

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52872401

*George Floyd death: Violence erupts on sixth day of protests*


----------



## kimthecat

Im not surprised. His death was shocking and lm glad the cop was eventually charged with murder. Been demos in the UK against the police here too. No one socially distancing.


----------



## SbanR

His death was certainly shocking but I've seen several clips of mindless violence, vandalism. Devalues his life


----------



## Calvine

SbanR said:


> His death was certainly shocking but I've seen several clips of mindless violence, vandalism. Devalues his life


 When some just make it an excuse for looting it's really dreadful. On the news there was a black guy sobbing and pleading with them to stop; they were looting and burning his store. It was heartbreaking to see him saying he ''came from the ghetto'' and had worked to make a life for himself.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Happy Paws2

SbanR said:


> His death was certainly shocking but I've seen several clips of mindless violence, vandalism. Devalues his life


They are just using his death as an excuse.
If they think burning everything in sight, ruining peoples livelihoods is going to help, they've got that one wrong. How no earth are they going to get work and rebuilt their lives if they are destroy everything.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Happy Paws2 said:


> They are just using his death as an excuse.
> If they think burning everything in sight, ruining peoples livelihoods is going to help, they've got that one wrong. How no earth are they going to get work and rebuilt their lives if they are destroy everything.


There is anger.
Then there are just scum for whom any opportunity is good.

Remember riots in London?

Trump really divided the country and weakened it.
USA no longer is a beacon of democracy, rule of law, protector of peace and stability.

He is a very, very dangerous man and always was.
No amusement value.

Hilary was not very appealing, but never a dangerous moron.


----------



## O2.0

Happy Paws2 said:


> They are just using his death as an excuse.
> If they think burning everything in sight, ruining peoples livelihoods is going to help, they've got that one wrong. How no earth are they going to get work and rebuilt their lives if they are destroy everything.


Who is 'they'?

People are hurting, we're outraged. Police officers are outraged. And are walking with the protesters. What on earth is happening in a police department where an officer can have 18 complaints and keep his job, where he can asphyxiate a man in front of 4 other officers and not a single one tries to stop him or even says a word in the unarmed man's defense.

Of course people are protesting. There is no excuse for George Floyd's death. In this state, the entire state has a policy that you do not put people on their stomachs in handcuffs and that policy has been in place for decades because they *know* it results in death. With your hands behind your back, on your stomach, every breath is an effort, especially if you are a large person as Mr. Floyd was. Police, military, they all know this. Why was that not policy in Minnesota? What is going on in their department that 3 other officers see a man fighting to breathe and do nothing?

Not a month ago Ahmaud Arbery goes out for a run, happens to stop and look in a construction site (something I would probably do myself out running - because I'm nosy like that) and gets chased down and gunned down. One of the gunmen is a retired police officer. And doesn't get charged until there is enough public uproar that authorities have no choice. 
Of course people are protesting.

We're angry. We're frustrated. We have a leader who sees armed gunmen with assault rifles cry to open up the country and calls them 'good people', but unarmed, mostly peaceful protests against police brutality - those participants are 'thugs' and he threatens them with bullets and vicious dogs. Our president.

All while most of us are worried about making ends meet, if small businesses are going to make it, if we will have childcare for our children, and every other worry that comes with this pandemic. While the president refuses to wear a mask and suggests injecting bleach may help.

This country is full of good people who have quite simply had enough. So yes, they will protest. And some in some of those protests the anger will spill over. I don't condone it, but I get it. I'm angry too. We have no leadership. We want our good, kind, unified country back.


----------



## Dave S

02.0 Fully understand and agree with what you say. Watching news here today there was an interview with a young black protester who said that DT needs to grow up amongst other things - how true.
BBC news reports that he has now stated that state governors should "toughen up or look like a bunch of jerks" He really needs censoring.

Just heard that the White House with DT inside is now on lockdown.

02.0. we all here hope you stay safe and that this problem is soon resolved together with a suitable resolve to the "leader of the free world" Stay safe..


----------



## Jesthar

I've hesitated to post on this topic. I'm a pasty white girl from the UK who has had relatively few hardships in life, which means I'm not qualified to comprehend the prejudices poor black Americans face in any way at all. I can try my best to fathom it intellectually, and I suppose at a push you could say being female and dealing with both casual and systematic sexism perhaps leaves me with a slight advantage over men, but the simple truth is I can never really come even close to understanding.

However, I saw a reference to this on Facebook this morning in relation to rioting and decided to look it up, and it very much helped me to make sense of that aspect, and also follows on very well from the points @02.0 made. This was the section that contains the part quoted - I've given some of the preceding paragraphs as, though I like to consider myself a student of history, much of it was new to me. It's a bit longer that I'd usually post, but it's worth the read:

_"In 1863 the ***** was freed from the bondage of physical slavery. But at the same time, the nation refused to give him land to make that freedom meaningful. And at that same period America was giving millions of acres of land in the West and the Midwest, which meant that America was willing to undergird its white peasants from Europe with an economic floor that would make it possible to grow and develop, and refused to give that economic floor to its black peasants, so to speak.

This is why Frederick Douglas could say that emancipation for the ***** was freedom to hunger, freedom to the winds and rains of heaven, freedom without roofs to cover their heads. He went on to say that it was freedom without bread to eat, freedom without land to cultivate. It was freedom and famine at the same time. But it does not stop there.

In 1875 the nation passed a Civil Rights Bill and refused to enforce it. In 1964 the nation passed a weaker Civil Rights Bill and even to this day, that bill has not been totally enforced in all of its dimensions. The nation heralded a new day of concern for the poor, for the poverty stricken, for the disadvantaged. And brought into being a Poverty Bill and at the same time it put such little money into the program that it was hardly, and still remains hardly, a good skirmish against poverty. White politicians in suburbs talk eloquently against open housing, and in the same breath contend that they are not racist. And all of this, and all of these things tell us that America has been backlashing on the whole question of basic constitutional and God-given rights for ******* and other disadvantaged groups for more than 300 years.

So these conditions, existence of widespread poverty, slums, and of tragic conniptions in schools and other areas of life, all of these things have brought about a great deal of despair, and a great deal of desperation. A great deal of disappointment and even bitterness in the ***** communities. And today all of our cities confront huge problems. All of our cities are potentially powder kegs as a result of the continued existence of these conditions. Many in moments of anger, many in moments of deep bitterness engage in riots.

Let me say as I've always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. I'm still convinced that nonviolence is the most potent weapon available to oppressed people in their struggle for freedom and justice. I feel that violence will only create more social problems than they will solve. That in a real sense it is impracticable for the ***** to even think of mounting a violent revolution in the United States. So I will continue to condemn riots, and continue to say to my brothers and sisters that this is not the way. And continue to affirm that there is another way.

But at the same time, it is as necessary for me to be as vigorous in condemning the conditions which cause persons to feel that they must engage in riotous activities as it is for me to condemn riots. I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the ***** poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."
_
It sounds like a speech that could have been delivered yesterday, doesn't it? And yet it was delivered by Martin Luthor King Jr at Stamford College on April 14th, 1967. It's title is "The Other America", and you can find the full transcript here: https://www.crmvet.org/docs/otheram.htm. It was also recorded, so you can listen to it if you prefer: 





I can't but help imagine how disappointed he would be were he still alive today...


----------



## Dave S

He said he was the "president of law and order" amongst other things.

Surely this is the start of the end of Trump when he is bringing in the National Guard to quell the unrest and using rubber bullets and tear gas on a peaceful protest just so he can have a photo opportunity in a damaged church?

The world will be a safer place under Putin I reckon.


----------



## MollySmith

Same as you @Jesthar. I have never experienced hardship or prejudice because of the colour of my skin. I don't think it's my place to say anything but spending a counterfeit note* from a cash point is usually a story to tell for the likes of me, for George, it was a death sentence.

I feel we must remind ourselves on the causes and history, to learn it well, so that this inequality and oppression never happens in future generations, or our lives again.

I hope this feeling is channeled into the voting booths. Stay safe friends in America, and your families too

* corrected below


----------



## Magyarmum

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=576119716620452


----------



## MilleD

Jesthar said:


> I've hesitated to post on this topic. I'm a pasty white girl from the UK who has had relatively few hardships in life, which means I'm not qualified to comprehend the prejudices poor black Americans face in any way at all. I can try my best to fathom it intellectually, and I suppose at a push you could say being female and dealing with both casual and systematic sexism perhaps leaves me with a slight advantage over men, but the simple truth is I can never really come even close to understanding.


I have to say that although it was a novel, Small Great Things by Jodi Picoult really opened by eyes to what it might be like to live as a black person in a white person's world.


----------



## Pawscrossed

I also feel ill qualified but it does not mean I can't be supportive. I liked this post on Twitter. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266335563197501440


----------



## Dave S

Thanks to Magyarmum for the video.

Well said by that brave Police Officer who by now is probably out of a job and in prison.
Common sense and straight talking.



MollySmith said:


> spending a counterfeit note from a cash point is usually a story to tell for the likes of me, for George, it was a death sentence.


From what I read later the note he was trying to spend was all good.

I have also never experienced hardship or prejudice in my life due to colour however the worst people I have encountered have been some of my neighbours - 4 houses of them and all white English and all causing trouble for my family and I soon after we moved in (all due to me not bowing down to the local gobshite).. I now have Asian, Jamaican and Rumanian neighbours as well as English and we all get along really well.


----------



## MollySmith

Dave S said:


> Thanks to Magyarmum for the video.
> 
> Well said by that brave Police Officer who by now is probably out of a job and in prison.
> Common sense and straight talking.
> 
> From what I read later the note he was trying to spend was all good.
> 
> I have also never experienced hardship or prejudice in my life due to colour however the worst people I have encountered have been some of my neighbours - 4 houses of them and all white English and all causing trouble for my family and I soon after we moved in (all due to me not bowing down to the local gobshite).. I now have Asian, Jamaican and Rumanian neighbours as well as English and we all get along really well.


Yes, I now have seen it wasn't counterfeit - so this thread is accurate (there is an awful lot of inaccuracies out there).

thanks @Dave S


----------



## O2.0

Dave S said:


> Well said by that brave Police Officer who by now is probably out of a job and in prison.


Not at all. He's the police chief of Houston Texas - head of a huge police department, and he's not alone by far. 
Things have gotten bad here, but the president still can't fire a major police chief for nothing nor incarcerate him for nothing LOL


----------



## MollySmith

Happy Paws2 said:


> They are just using his death as an excuse.
> If they think burning everything in sight, ruining peoples livelihoods is going to help, they've got that one wrong. How no earth are they going to get work and rebuilt their lives if they are destroy everything.


Many of the businesses being targeted are known to have given money to Trump's election campaign. KFC, McDonalds and I think Walmart too (the Ethical Consumer has a list of the UK businesses).


----------



## O2.0

MollySmith said:


> Many of the businesses being targeted are known to have given money to Trump's election campaign. KFC, McDonalds and I think Walmart too (the Ethical Consumer has a list of the UK businesses).


I don't think that has anything to do with which businesses are targeted honestly. 
Most demonstrations have been peaceful, the peaceful demonstrations break up, folks go home, and the idiots come out afterwards. There are some who go overboard during the peaceful demonstrations as well, but I haven't seen any indication that the looting and destruction is in any way organized or deliberate based on campaign donations. 
And don't forget, big cooporations like McDonald's will donate to both sides to cover their based (and get a tax break).


----------



## Jesthar

O2.0 said:


> I don't think that has anything to do with which businesses are targeted honestly.
> Most demonstrations have been peaceful, the peaceful demonstrations break up, folks go home, and the idiots come out afterwards. There are some who go overboard during the peaceful demonstrations as well, but I haven't seen any indication that the looting and destruction is in any way organized or deliberate based on campaign donations.
> And don't forget, big cooporations like McDonald's will donate to both sides to cover their based (and get a tax break).


There's also some serious speculation in the press that a number of the incidents have been instigated by white supremacists seeking to get the protesters falsely blamed.


----------



## Calvine

cheekyscrip said:


> Then there are just scum for whom any opportunity is good.


Rentamob, as you say. How can looting help the situation?


----------



## catz4m8z

O2.0 said:


> I don't think that has anything to do with which businesses are targeted honestly.
> .


I can believe that. Rioters are notoriously difficult to organize and rarely plan ahead!

Personally I think that certain areas of the US have been a powderkeg waiting to explode for a while now. Trump has done nothing to support the poor and disadvantaged (alot of whom are from ethnic minorities). Add to that a rising unemployment rate, no decent healthcare, some epic level institutionalized racism and sprinkle in a global pandemic!?:Wideyed:Nailbiting
Thing is Trump bangs on about how great USA is with its right to bear arms and liberty and freedom for all then turns around and treats the people like s***. Doesnt take a genius to work out how that will end!


----------



## mrs phas

catz4m8z said:


> Thing is Trump bangs on about how great USA is with its right to bear arms and liberty and freedom for all then turns around and treats the people like s***. Doesnt take a genius to work out how that will end!


In another 4 years for his great shredded wheatheadness


----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> I don't think that has anything to do with which businesses are targeted honestly.
> Most demonstrations have been peaceful, the peaceful demonstrations break up, folks go home, and the idiots come out afterwards. There are some who go overboard during the peaceful demonstrations as well, but I haven't seen any indication that the looting and destruction is in any way organized or deliberate based on campaign donations.
> And don't forget, big cooporations like McDonald's will donate to both sides to cover their based (and get a tax break).


Thanks for the clarity.


----------



## MollySmith

The UK government have delayed the BAME report on coronavirus for the second time saying it will incite racial tension (Sky News).

(allegedly)


----------



## O2.0

I think the violence and rioting is multifaceted.

Some of it is because people are understandably angry and frustrated and some of that is spilling over in to violence. Humans being humans.

Some of it is people using the protests as a cover to raid and loot - in some cities a large percentage of the arrests were people who don't even live in that area.

We're now also getting credible reports that *some* of the violence in *some* cities are white nationalist organizations posing as antifa calling for violence. 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/antifa-fake-twitter-account/index.html


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> The UK government have delayed the BAME report on coronavirus for the second time saying it will incite racial tension (Sky News).


I doubt this is why this has been delayed.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/ph...review-this-week-claims-dhsc/20040908.article


----------



## catz4m8z

MollySmith said:


> The UK government have delayed the BAME report on coronavirus for the second time saying it will incite racial tension (Sky News).


That would imply some organisation and forethought on their part.....I dont believe that for a second!!:Hilarious


----------



## MollySmith

MilleD said:


> I doubt this is why this has been delayed.
> 
> http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/ph...review-this-week-claims-dhsc/20040908.article


Ah okay, Sky making up news



catz4m8z said:


> That would imply some organisation and forethought on their part.....I dont believe that for a second!!:Hilarious


Yes! Sky giving credit unintentionally too


----------



## Dave S

Today I my home town there was a Black lives Matter march although there was also an argument on local Facebook that it should be All Lives Matter.
Anyway, it was reported as peaceful and people were social distancing and amazingly even the police were cheering and applauding the speeches.

Had to laugh by the way, the news report from USA about the riots showed a video of police having a face off with demonstrators and the police had their bicycles with them. Obviously not enough time to find an armoured car but hardly the vehicle for a hot pursuit and a bit laughable to give an arrested person a "backy" to get them to jail.


----------



## Magyarmum

What a hypocrite!

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...ePZ7yWcpv6xIlkze8jpJhffxMrvS142mxLvz2hHVbsRko

*'The Bible is not a prop': Religious leaders, lawmakers outraged over Trump church visit*


----------



## catz4m8z

Dave S said:


> although there was also an argument on local Facebook that it should be All Lives Matter.


ewww, cringe! Makes me think of all those celebs coming out on social media letting everyone know how caring they are (despite having shown no real interest before!). Besides you cant really state that All Lives Matter unless you are prepared to admit that white lives matter that little bit more then black lives...if you dont then you really arent getting it. (nice to see all the support around the world though).
What gets me is that no matter what Trump does a huge amount of people will still vote for him. There needs to be some sort of a study done...I mean is it mind control?, hypnosis??:Bored


----------



## Dave S

Has it been questioned or investigated if Trump has a psychological disorder - is he mad or does he have dementia?


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> Today I my home town there was a Black lives Matter march although there was also an argument on local Facebook that it should be All Lives Matter.


In a sane world that would be true
however
the question is, have we ever been living in a sane world?
we all live in our own imagined insanity, whether that be the insanity of living at the top of the tree, or between the roots, our own minds make that place and destroy that place and in doing that edify, or destroy, others along the way
are black lives less valued, than those of white people
youve only got to look at the statistics, even those of the c-19 , an unthinking unfeeling, unseeing microbe, to see they most definitley are
and that is wrong, on every level
until such time we can look at another human being and see exactly that, a human being, the insanity will be repeated ad nauseam
we are all born into the world the same way, bloody and mewling
we all go out of the world the same way, no one beats death
so why descriminate whilst we live in the world in between those two definates
your life matters, my life matters, all lives matter
but yes, right here and right now, especially in the US, although it encompasses the whole world on some level
Black lives matter just that bit more


----------



## mrs phas

Dave S said:


> Has it been questioned or investigated if Trump has a psychological disorder - is he mad or does he have dementia?


i believe he has always refused to be tested, on any level
and without some proof ( for which they need to test him to get) they cant compel him to take a test
hence 
a very viscious and dangerous circle commences

lets face it reagan, as we now know, had dementia in the last two years of presidency, but he had Nancy to keep him on the straight and level
and she had more cojones than the whole senate put together


----------



## lullabydream

James Corden says it all very well


----------



## MollySmith

Resources a friend shared with me the evening after we talked about how she's feeling.

Scott Woods poet and author, definitely worth following on Twitter. You may have seen his quote about racism infecting us at birth like air in the past few days. It comes from this longer blog post.
https://scottwoodsmakeslists.wordpr...lly-saying-about-ani-difranco-or-plantations/

Also on Twitter Victoria Alexander who is a Phd researcher into anti-racism and has published this guide to resources, her Twitter feed (@Victoriaalxndr) has a reading list aimed at education around race and prejudice. 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a-lzdtxOlWuzYNGqwlYwxMWADtZ6vJGCpKhtJHHrS54/mobilebasic

And Nora Reid's TED talk 
Nova Reid: Not all superheroes wear capes-how you have the power to change the world
https://www.ted.com/talks/nova_reid...es_how_you_have_the_power_to_change_the_world


----------



## O2.0

The contrast between Biden's speech in Philadelphia and Trump's rose garden speech and photo op is so glaring. Biden wasn't close to my first choice to run against Trump, but just 1 minute in to listening to Biden speak vs. Trump you can see the difference between a leader, and a... I don't know what Trump would be....


----------



## MilleD

O2.0 said:


> The contrast between Biden's speech in Philadelphia and Trump's rose garden speech and photo op is so glaring. Biden wasn't close to my first choice to run against Trump, but just 1 minute in to listening to Biden speak vs. Trump you can see the difference between a leader, and a... I don't know what Trump would be....


A cottage loaf haired maniac?


----------



## Magyarmum

Dave S said:


> Has it been questioned or investigated if Trump has a psychological disorder - is he mad or does he have dementia?


December 5 th 2019

https://www.businessinsider.com/psy...ng-trumps-mental-health-deteriorating-2019-12

*350 health professionals sign letter to Congress claiming Trump's mental health is deteriorating dangerously amid impeachment proceedings*


----------



## Happy Paws2

I've thought he has a mental problem for ages, yesterday turning up a church unannounced the standing outside waving the bible around confirmed it.


----------



## Jesthar

Happy Paws2 said:


> I've thought he has a mental problem for ages, yesterday turning up a church unannounced the standing outside waving the bible around confirmed it.


Oh, it wasn't entirely unannounced in physical terms - if you happened to be in the immediate vicinity beforehand. This is the eyewitness testimony of Rector Gina Gerbasi, who was at the church at the time:

_"Friends, I am ok, but I am, frankly shaken. I was at St. John's, Lafayette Square most of the afternoon, with fellow clergy and laypeople - and clergy from some other denominations too.

We were passing out water and snacks, and helping the patio area at St. John's, Lafayette square to be a place of respite and peace. All was well - with a few little tense moments - until about 6:15 or so. By then, I had connected with the Black Lives Matter medic team, which was headed by an EMT. Those people were AMAZING. They had been on the patio all day, and thankfully had not had to use much of the eyewash they had made.

Around 6:15 or 6:30, the police started really pushing protestors off of H Street (the street between the church and Lafayette Park, and ultimately, the White House. They started using tear gas and folks were running at us for eyewashes or water or wet paper towels. At this point, Julia, one of our seminarians for next year (who is a trauma nurse) and I looked at each other in disbelief. I was coughing, her eyes were watering, and we were trying to help people as the police - in full riot gear - drove people toward us. Julia and her classmates left and I stayed with the BLM folks trying to help people. Suddenly, around 6:30, there was more tear gas, more concussion grenades, and I think I saw someone hit by a rubber bullet - he was grasping his stomach and there was a mark on his shirt.

The police in their riot gear were literally walking onto the St. John's, Lafayette Square patio with these metal shields, pushing people off the patio and driving them back. People were running at us as the police advanced toward us from the other side of the patio.

We had to try to pick up what we could. The BLM medic folks were obviously well practiced. They picked up boxes and ran. I was so stunned I only got a few water bottles and my spray bottle of eyewash.

We were literally DRIVEN OFF of the St. John's, Lafayette Square patio with tear gas and concussion grenades and police in full riot gear. We were pushed back 20 feet, and then eventually - with SO MANY concussion grenades - back to K street. By the time I got back to my car, around 7, I was getting texts from people saying that Trump was outside of St. John's, Lafayette Square.

I literally COULD NOT believe it. WE WERE DRIVEN OFF OF THE PATIO AT ST. JOHN'S - a place of peace and respite and medical care throughout the day - SO THAT MAN COULD HAVE A PHOTO OPPORTUNITY IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH!!! PEOPLE WERE HURT SO THAT HE COULD POSE IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH WITH A BIBLE! HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO STEP OVER THE MEDICAL SUPPLIES WE LEFT BEHIND BECAUSE WE WERE BEING TEAR GASSED!!!!

I am deeply shaken. I did not see any protestors throw anything until the tear gas and concussion grenades started, and then it was mostly water bottles. I am shaken, not so much by the taste of tear gas and the bit of a cough I still have, but by the fact that that show of force was for a PHOTO OPPORTUNITY.

The patio of St. John's, Lafayette square had been HOLY GROUND today. A place of respite and laughter and water and granola bars and fruit snacks. But that man turned it into a BATTLE GROUND first, and a cheap political stunt second.

I am DEEPLY OFFENDED on behalf of every protestor, every Christian, the people of St. John's, Lafayette square, every decent person there, and the BLM medics who stayed with just a single box of supplies and a backpack, even when I got too scared and had to leave. I am ok. But I am now a force to be reckoned with."
_

So, now we know that the man who revels in his status as 'President' will gladly order tear gas, rubber bullets, concussion grenades and fully armed riot police to be used on peaceful crowds, medics and clergy - just so he can then stage a photo opportunity in front of the church he's just had everyone brutally driven away from.


----------



## Magyarmum

Justin Trudeau's reaction is fascinating to watch!

https://washingtonpress.com/2020/06...fV5TPn3V_E_zeRx0j0IjoghYr4Dpom-05tp42337kJgAo

*Justin Trudeau struggles to find words to react to Trump's handling of protest unrest*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Jesthar said:


> Oh, it wasn't entirely unannounced in physical terms - if you happened to be in the immediate vicinity beforehand. This is the eyewitness testimony of Rector Gina Gerbasi, who was at the church at the time:
> 
> _"Friends, I am ok, but I am, frankly shaken. I was at St. John's, Lafayette Square most of the afternoon, with fellow clergy and laypeople - and clergy from some other denominations too.
> 
> We were passing out water and snacks, and helping the patio area at St. John's, Lafayette square to be a place of respite and peace. All was well - with a few little tense moments - until about 6:15 or so. By then, I had connected with the Black Lives Matter medic team, which was headed by an EMT. Those people were AMAZING. They had been on the patio all day, and thankfully had not had to use much of the eyewash they had made.
> 
> Around 6:15 or 6:30, the police started really pushing protestors off of H Street (the street between the church and Lafayette Park, and ultimately, the White House. They started using tear gas and folks were running at us for eyewashes or water or wet paper towels. At this point, Julia, one of our seminarians for next year (who is a trauma nurse) and I looked at each other in disbelief. I was coughing, her eyes were watering, and we were trying to help people as the police - in full riot gear - drove people toward us. Julia and her classmates left and I stayed with the BLM folks trying to help people. Suddenly, around 6:30, there was more tear gas, more concussion grenades, and I think I saw someone hit by a rubber bullet - he was grasping his stomach and there was a mark on his shirt.
> 
> The police in their riot gear were literally walking onto the St. John's, Lafayette Square patio with these metal shields, pushing people off the patio and driving them back. People were running at us as the police advanced toward us from the other side of the patio.
> 
> We had to try to pick up what we could. The BLM medic folks were obviously well practiced. They picked up boxes and ran. I was so stunned I only got a few water bottles and my spray bottle of eyewash.
> 
> We were literally DRIVEN OFF of the St. John's, Lafayette Square patio with tear gas and concussion grenades and police in full riot gear. We were pushed back 20 feet, and then eventually - with SO MANY concussion grenades - back to K street. By the time I got back to my car, around 7, I was getting texts from people saying that Trump was outside of St. John's, Lafayette Square.
> 
> I literally COULD NOT believe it. WE WERE DRIVEN OFF OF THE PATIO AT ST. JOHN'S - a place of peace and respite and medical care throughout the day - SO THAT MAN COULD HAVE A PHOTO OPPORTUNITY IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH!!! PEOPLE WERE HURT SO THAT HE COULD POSE IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH WITH A BIBLE! HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO STEP OVER THE MEDICAL SUPPLIES WE LEFT BEHIND BECAUSE WE WERE BEING TEAR GASSED!!!!
> 
> I am deeply shaken. I did not see any protestors throw anything until the tear gas and concussion grenades started, and then it was mostly water bottles. I am shaken, not so much by the taste of tear gas and the bit of a cough I still have, but by the fact that that show of force was for a PHOTO OPPORTUNITY.
> 
> The patio of St. John's, Lafayette square had been HOLY GROUND today. A place of respite and laughter and water and granola bars and fruit snacks. But that man turned it into a BATTLE GROUND first, and a cheap political stunt second.
> 
> I am DEEPLY OFFENDED on behalf of every protestor, every Christian, the people of St. John's, Lafayette square, every decent person there, and the BLM medics who stayed with just a single box of supplies and a backpack, even when I got too scared and had to leave. I am ok. But I am now a force to be reckoned with."
> _
> 
> So, now we know that the man who revels in his status as 'President' will gladly order tear gas, rubber bullets, concussion grenades and fully armed riot police to be used on peaceful crowds, medics and clergy - just so he can then stage a photo opportunity in front of the church he's just had everyone brutally driven away from.


Lost for words,,,,,,,,


----------



## MilleD

Magyarmum said:


> Justin Trudeau's reaction is fascinating to watch!
> 
> https://washingtonpress.com/2020/06...fV5TPn3V_E_zeRx0j0IjoghYr4Dpom-05tp42337kJgAo
> 
> *Justin Trudeau struggles to find words to react to Trump's handling of protest unrest*


Does that look like it's intentional? He would surely have had an answer ready for that question before he went out there?


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> Justin Trudeau's reaction is fascinating to watch!
> 
> https://washingtonpress.com/2020/06...fV5TPn3V_E_zeRx0j0IjoghYr4Dpom-05tp42337kJgAo
> 
> *Justin Trudeau struggles to find words to react to Trump's handling of protest unrest*


I saw that! What was that all about?! It was so weird!


----------



## Pawscrossed

Magyarmum said:


> Justin Trudeau's reaction is fascinating to watch!
> 
> https://washingtonpress.com/2020/06...fV5TPn3V_E_zeRx0j0IjoghYr4Dpom-05tp42337kJgAo
> 
> *Justin Trudeau struggles to find words to react to Trump's handling of protest unrest*


Perhaps this is caution? It could be that he is wary of Trump's state of mind? He certainly seemed to be choosing his words very carefully. He contrasts very well against Trump's bulldozer so it might be deliberate and it get us talking about him too.


----------



## Pawscrossed

MollySmith said:


> Resources a friend shared with me the evening after we talked about how she's feeling.
> 
> Scott Woods poet and author, definitely worth following on Twitter. You may have seen his quote about racism infecting us at birth like air in the past few days. It comes from this longer blog post.
> https://scottwoodsmakeslists.wordpr...lly-saying-about-ani-difranco-or-plantations/
> 
> Also on Twitter Victoria Alexander who is a Phd researcher into anti-racism and has published this guide to resources, her Twitter feed (@Victoriaalxndr) has a reading list aimed at education around race and prejudice.
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a-lzdtxOlWuzYNGqwlYwxMWADtZ6vJGCpKhtJHHrS54/mobilebasic
> 
> And Nora Reid's TED talk
> Nova Reid: Not all superheroes wear capes-how you have the power to change the world
> https://www.ted.com/talks/nova_reid...es_how_you_have_the_power_to_change_the_world


I liked Victoria's reading list!


----------



## Cully

Megalomaniac comes to mind when I think of Trump. He is a very worrying individual and it's terrifying what he's is capable of if allowed to continue. Why can't he be stopped?


----------



## O2.0

Cully said:


> Why can't he be stopped?


Let's hope and pray and do whatever mojo you can think of that he will be stopped in November.

The contrast with Biden's empathy and understanding, call for unity, and actual humanity is so stark against Trump's calls for 'total dominance' and 'law and order' with no mention of the real suffering of the people. I don't know how this country could not vote him out. But then I still can't figure out how Trump got elected to begin with.

Every time I hear Trump talking about 'dominating' and all his bravado and showmanship, I think of this article on what leadership truly is:

https://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/leadership-versus-dominance
Leadership is a grossly misunderstood concept. Leadership is often associated with words like "dominance", "alpha", "authority", "respect", and "challenge". Rarely, if ever, is it associated with the word "trust". Which may explain the tremendous lack of demonstrated leadership present in today's human society!

Leadership is a role that requires the earning of trust from followers. Trust cannot be demanded. Force (the tool of the Dominator) creates resistance. Trust can only be given, not taken. Leadership, unlike "dominance", requires followers to CHOOSE to follow. Trust is broken in a heartbeat, but repaired, re-earned, only over a long period of time--not hours, but days, weeks, even months or years. Sometimes, it's irreparably broken.

An individual dog always has the right to choose whether to follow another dog or not. Even the most severe aggression will not force an individual dog to follow a leader it does not willingly choose to follow. It is only the benefit offered by the leader that encourages a follower to follow.

Whether we are referring to corporate management, family structure, or canine management, the basic principles of effective leadership remain the same:

To lead is to set the example. To design structure of activities. To plan. To create expectations. To minimize conflict. To intervene and mediate conflict. To consider the best interests of all parties when creating boundaries or structure. To listen as often as speak. To compromise your own ego, your immediate interests for the benefit of all parties, putting the needs of your followers before your own. A good leader builds willing cooperation.

To "dominate" is to bully. To ignore the needs of your followers when it conflicts with your own personal interests or desires. To repress free will. To have one-directional conversations. The product of domination is conflict, since only one party's will or desire is considered, but all parties have needs. The "dominator" forces "cooperation" (compliance).

Among households with canine family members, lack of leadership is a common cause for serious problem behaviors. Failing to plan is planning to fail, they say. Responsibility for leadership issues is often shifted to the dog, calling the dog "dominant".

While a dog may have strong leadership tendencies or even capabilities, it is the yielding of follow that creates a leader. When a human or another dog reacts, rather than initiates, that individual is following. Interestingly, this "reaction" is the very hallmark of application of "dominance" techniques-- wait for the dog to screw up, then intervene. Who is leading who?

Waiting for the car to run off the road before steering is obviously a bad idea. But somehow "because dogs aren't like us", this approach is often attempted.

Sadly, I've seen a well-intentioned "positive" approach used in the same way. The dog jumps up, THEN the person asks for a SIT. This is ineffective for so many reasons, now "positive" training has been misidentified as the cause of ineffectiveness.

The key to leadership for your canine pals is developing the ability to read the current situation, anticipate what behaviors come next, identify "crossroad" moments when steering is needed, and a toolbox full of ways to elicit the behavior you want BEFORE an undesirable behavior emerges.

I'm often asked by folks with dogs displaying aggression toward other dogs what to do if the dogs get into a fight, again, reflecting the "follow the dog" backwards approach. Some people are looking to use the fight to "teach their dog a lesson". Others are simply trying to prevent injury to the dogs.

Returning to our model of leadership as steering the car, PREVENTION is the key strategy to address accidents. Maybe there's that 1-in-a-million race car driver out there who can adeptly intervene WHILE the car is crashing--maybe. But if you were that 1-in-a-million dog owner who could effectively intervene while your dog was in a fight...your dog wouldn't be in a fight to begin with!

Once you've "crashed the car", once you've missed the "crossroad moment" where you needed to steer the behavior in the correct direction, once the dog has jumped or barked or lunged -- the dog's learning is out the window. You may be able to use the moment to learn how to handle such a circumstance, but the dog's learning for application to future interactions has ceased.

By learning to lead effectively, you will not see the "crashes"!


----------



## Sandysmum

It’s pretty obvious he’s got some sort of mental problems, if he refuses to be tested, is there no committee or anything to override him on that. He’s getting more unstable and dangerous every day. I am really starting to get worried, what he does not only affects the US, but could have serious consequences for the whole world!


----------



## Cully

I wonder what would happen if everyone just said 'no' to him. Vote for me, "No". Tell the world what a wonderful humane, humble, astonishingly amazing, popular leader I am. "No". Use tear gas on innocent people. "No". Kill everyone who doesn't agree with me and won't do as I say. "Nooooooo".


----------



## Magyarmum

jetsmum said:


> It's pretty obvious he's got some sort of mental problems, if he refuses to be tested, is there no committee or anything to override him on that. He's getting more unstable and dangerous every day. I am really starting to get worried, what he does not only affects the US, but could have serious consequences for the whole world!


https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow...1Aw9kGJt7VxWZd7ebq50yQo7CvUW89q12BgR37-XNr1oQ

*Abroad, Trump leaves the US Isolated, ridiculed and pitied*


----------



## Dave S

Jesthar said:


> Oh, it wasn't entirely unannounced in physical terms - if you happened to be in the immediate vicinity beforehand. This is the eyewitness testimony of Rector Gina Gerbasi, who was at the church at the time:
> 
> _"Friends, I am ok, but I am, frankly shaken. I was at St. John's, Lafayette Square most of the afternoon, with fellow clergy and laypeople - and clergy from some other denominations too.
> 
> We were passing out water and snacks, and helping the patio area at St. John's, Lafayette square to be a place of respite and peace. All was well - with a few little ………._


Thanks for posting that account. If this is genuine then it really needs to go world wide viral.
I believe DT has made his gravest mistake to date and can only think that he may regret this whole incident. I just wonder what his aides think as he goes off on his own like that, perhaps they want to throw themselves under busses.
In any event I hope the people who voted him in again on the banner of "Make America Great Again" can see a way past this and vote someone with a bit of sense in next time.
As to his standing on the world stage, he was supposed to host a summit soon and was going to give a discount to hold it at one of his places, I wonder how many heads of state now do not want to attend.


----------



## picaresque

@O2.0
Re: Biden, I remember seeing some footage last year of him being kind of... handsy... with some girls which has rather coloured my opinion of him. Has that had any real effect on his campaign or has it all been brushed under the carpet? I've really checked out of news/world politics lately so I'd be interested in your perspective from the US.


----------



## Dave S

picaresque - I seem to remember that DT has a bigger problem with his hands and young ladies, all of which he has denied, and don't forget those comments he gave about "grabbing women in certain places" That didn't dent his chances of becoming president so I think that Biden would not have a problem.


----------



## O2.0

picaresque said:


> @O2.0
> Re: Biden, I remember seeing some footage last year of him being kind of... handsy... with some girls which has rather coloured my opinion of him. Has that had any real effect on his campaign or has it all been brushed under the carpet? I've really checked out of news/world politics lately so I'd be interested in your perspective from the US.


Like this? *cringe*




It's true, the footage is creepy just seen in clips like that. He does and says some things sometimes that make do make me cringe. 
But nothing about the man strikes me as dangerous, predatory, or misogynistic in any way. He's definitely awkward and at times inappropriate, but - and here's the important part to me, he's teachable. In other words, when he's called on it, he apologizes, acknowledges his behavior, and endeavors to do better. I'll take it.

When he was accused back in March (seems like a year ago now) of allegedly assaulting a woman in 1993, they eventually interviewed over 74 people who worked for Biden and none could corroborate the story. They all basically said he was a good family man and committed to gender equality. The lawyer representing his accuser eventually dropped her too.

I don't think he's a perfect human or even my first choice to run against Trump, but he's not a case of "the lesser of two evils." I don't think he's evil at all. I think he's another old white man career politician, but I think he genuinely does want to do good as a politician.

This is also awkward, but he's right, and he's right to bring it up and put it out there in the open. Can you imagine Trump trying to talk to a group of young adults about consent?!


----------



## mrs phas

Cully said:


> I wonder what would happen if everyone just said 'no' to him. Vote for me, "No". Tell the world what a wonderful humane, humble, astonishingly amazing, popular leader I am. "No". Use tear gas on innocent people. "No". Kill everyone who doesn't agree with me and won't do as I say. "Nooooooo".


He'd probably fist his hands, stamp his feet screw his face up and scream it's not fair
You must obey me
I am POTUS your leader
Then fall on his back continuing his tantrum until someone put him down for a nap


----------



## PawsOnMe

picaresque said:


> @O2.0
> Re: Biden, I remember seeing some footage last year of him being kind of... handsy... with some girls which has rather coloured my opinion of him. Has that had any real effect on his campaign or has it all been brushed under the carpet? I've really checked out of news/world politics lately so I'd be interested in your perspective from the US.






I saw this a while ago and it really creeped me out, he gives me Savile vibes. Might be innocent but my stomach turns watching the video especially with how uncomfortable the young girls are. I really feel for the people having to choose between Biden and Trump, both are awful.


----------



## O2.0

PawsOnMe said:


> I really feel for the people having to choose between Biden and Trump, both are awful.


Sorry, but there is no comparison between the two. Biden isn't awful. He's at least human.
And not for nothing, this is the kind of talk that got us Trump to begin with. Comparing a flawed human who's willing to try and do better to a psychopath and saying it's a tough choice. I'll go with the flawed human thanks.


----------



## Summercat

Biden is a bit more than a 'flawed human', he is a very poor presidential candidate. The only way Biden can win, is that Trump is the worse of two poor choices. 

That a creepy, semi alert and coherent Biden was put forth as the top Democratic candidate is very disappointing. We don't need a just better than Trump candidate, we need a good one.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Think America is in the same position as us in our last election, people voted of the best of the best of the worst, and g** only knows what will happen in November.


----------



## Cully

mrs phas said:


> He'd probably fist his hands, stamp his feet screw his face up and scream it's not fair
> You must obey me
> I am POTUS your leader
> Then fall on his back continuing his tantrum until someone put him down for a nap


Oh I do wish you had left out the last 3 words of your post!


----------



## mrs phas

Cully said:


> Oh I do wish you had left out the last 3 words of your post!


I was sorely tempted


----------



## Pawscrossed

Happy Paws2 said:


> Think America is in the same position as us in our last election, people voted of the best of the best of the worst, and g** only knows what will happen in November.


We have a PM who terms women as Totty, had a Pirelli calendar on his desk, suggested patting women on the bottom and fantastised about the ample bosom of his sat nat....


----------



## O2.0

Summercat said:


> Biden is a bit more than a 'flawed human', he is a very poor presidential candidate. The only way Biden can win, is that Trump is the worse of two poor choices.
> 
> That a creepy, semi alert and coherent Biden was put forth as the top Democratic candidate is very disappointing. We don't need a just better than Trump candidate, we need a good one.


He is a poor choice compared to the other democratic options we had yes. But compared to Trump, he's not. 
And if he picks a good VP running mate, he'll be even less of a poor choice.

And on what planet is Trump not worse than pretty much anyone except the likes of Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahmer? 
I seriously can't believe, even after this past week, that anyone can see anything presidential at all about Donald Trump.

Biden's speech in Philadelphia alone puts him above and beyond Trump in every way. He was certainly coherent for that speech, and more importantly, compassionate, understanding, and unifying.


----------



## cheekyscrip

The Pope condemned the murder of George Floyd and sin of racism.
So much for waving the Bible Mr Trump!
That is important for all the Christians.
I am glad he spoke.


----------



## PawsOnMe

O2.0 said:


> He is a poor choice compared to the other democratic options we had yes. But compared to Trump, he's not.
> And if he picks a good VP running mate, he'll be even less of a poor choice.
> 
> And on what planet is Trump not worse than pretty much anyone except the likes of Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahmer?
> I seriously can't believe, even after this past week, that anyone can see anything presidential at all about Donald Trump.
> 
> Biden's speech in Philadelphia alone puts him above and beyond Trump in every way. He was certainly coherent for that speech, and more importantly, compassionate, understanding, and unifying.


I might be misunderstanding but I hope you didn't find my post as being supportive of Trump, I find him a despicable excuse of a human being. If I was voting I'd be voting Biden, he's the best of a bad lot and the logical choice between the two. America deserves more than the choice of candidates you have but the sooner Trump is gone the better.


----------



## Cully

It's no suprise that he's the only President to have never had a pet. They are generally a good judge of character and he couldn't have coped with all the hissing, spitting and growling!!


----------



## Summercat

@O2.0 
I didn't really find Biden's speech that interesting. They are written by speech writers and he can read, that's wonderful.
Speaking without a script is a different story for him, it really shows his decline.
I am not fond of him regardless, as he is not without more than a touch of corruption and other negatives.
And yes, I agree the VP choice in this case will be very important, as he does not appear competent.
I keep waiting for Hilary to be pulled from the wings.
Frankly, America should be able to do so much better than Trump or Biden, as the two candidates.


----------



## mrs phas

Such a shame that Michelle Obama decided she'd had enough politics in her life.
Imagine her up against Trump


----------



## cheekyscrip

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjxtZmZwOjpAhVz6uAKHTpqBPIQ3e4CMBh6BAgNEBo&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L03vL5FUl8s&usg=AOvVaw2JxzrK7wR0fyN0ADr2IYik

Truly agree with this. Well said. Mattis . Ex Chief Defense.


----------



## O2.0

PawsOnMe said:


> I might be misunderstanding but I hope you didn't find my post as being supportive of Trump, I find him a despicable excuse of a human being. If I was voting I'd be voting Biden, he's the best of a bad lot and the logical choice between the two. America deserves more than the choice of candidates you have but the sooner Trump is gone the better.


The problem is, when you (general you, not you specifically) start with the narrative that Biden is a poor choice but anything is better than Trump, it makes them sound like two bad choices.

However we might feel about Biden, however we may wish someone else was selected at the democratic nominee, he is far and away, no contest, a superior candidate in every way to Trump. We *have* to stress that. 
Because some people will hear the doubt about Biden for those who won't vote for Trump and use that as an excuse to avoid voting for Biden.

And we will not survive another 4 years of Trump. We won't. Our country is already ripping itself apart, we already have the military going against the president - out in the open, not even trying to be diplomatic about it! It's that bad.

There can't be any confusion. It has to be Biden. No moaning about it, no wishing it were someone else, we have to get Trump voted out of office.



Summercat said:


> he can read, that's wonderful.


Considering that we currently have one who can't/won't, yes, I would say that's wonderful. Keep on with your "meh Biden" narrative and see if we don't end up with another 4 years of Trump.


----------



## picaresque

PawsOnMe said:


> I saw this a while ago and it really creeped me out, he gives me Savile vibes. Might be innocent but my stomach turns watching the video especially with how uncomfortable the young girls are. I really feel for the people having to choose between Biden and Trump, both are awful.


That's the one. Just as disturbing on the second viewing.
I loathe Trump, he is a disgusting human being with zero redeeming features as far as I can see. We know he assaults women and evidently it hasn't held him back. His supporters don't care.
@O2.0 appreciate your view. Biden might well be a better leadership candidate than DT (who isn't) and if I were American I'd rather him than Trump but I can't ignore that sinister touching and hair sniffing of little girls, it's not normal, it's not a case of a slightly-out-of-touch older man who just loves children and doesn't realise what he looks like. It's not something that should be considered an acceptable personality flaw. Most of us who were girls once have had those 'creepy uncle' experiences, I know I have and I remember what it felt like. It's a shame Bernie Sanders wasn't considered electable as (from what I've gleaned as someone who mostly has their head buried in the sand) he is someone who has spent his entire career advocating for the rights of women and girls - and other oppressed groups - before it was fashionable.


----------



## O2.0

I love Bernie, but frankly I'm tired of the "old white man" pigeonhole we seem to have created for the POTUS. I would have loved to see a younger candidate, a woman, a POC, or all of the above. I know this country was founded by old white men, but it is okay to move on eventually!


----------



## Magyarmum

mrs phas said:


> He'd probably fist his hands, stamp his feet screw his face up and scream it's not fair
> You must obey me
> I am POTUS your leader
> Then fall on his back continuing his tantrum until someone put him down for a nap


----------



## Sandysmum

PawsOnMe said:


> I saw this a while ago and it really creeped me out, he gives me Savile vibes. Might be innocent but my stomach turns watching the video especially with how uncomfortable the young girls are. I really feel for the people having to choose between Biden and Trump, both are awful.


Now I'll be honest, I don't know anything about this man at all, is he known to 'like children' ? All I saw was a man trying to calm down kids in what must have been a scary situation for them, with all those cameras going off and people shouting instructions . It's too easy these days, post Saville to see things that could be perfectly innocent but we have been so repulsed by the actions of some people that we jump to the wrong conclusions in others. As I said I don't know anything about him, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt unless/until I'm proved wrong.


----------



## stuaz

Magyarmum said:


>


He is getting one now:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268491075343319041
Going up around the White House.

Nothing quite says "Democratically elected Leader" than putting a higher wall between yourself and the people that your suppose to serve.

Not sure if Mexico is paying for this one though......


----------



## Jesthar




----------



## MissyfromMice

stuaz said:


> He is getting one now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268491075343319041
> Going up around the White House.
> 
> Nothing quite says "Democratically elected Leader" than putting a higher wall between yourself and the people that your suppose to serve.
> 
> Not sure if Mexico is paying for this one though......


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Dave S

It looks like more is coming out about the whole George Floyd case.

It seems that the police officers may have been unlawfully sacked because possible "due process" had not been followed.
It may be difficult for them to have a fair trial anywhere in the states due to the national and worldwide reaction about this death, they are only responsible for his death be it first, second or third degree murder, they are not responsible for all the marches and riots that followed.

George himself was a reformed criminal who was trying to change his life having served several prison sentences for including aggravated burglary where he pointed a gun at a woman and searched her house for money and drugs plus various other drug offences. Ok he was released in 2014 but I bet the police make a big play about his past.
True the police acted in the worst possible way but they would also have not known his history at that time either and he was not in fact doing anything wrong - the bill he was paying with was genuine.

However this has escalated there is no doubt that it has been handled very badly by Trump and his administration and has severely damaged the credibility of America on the world stage whilst casting doubt about the fitness of the government to govern. As there is an election on the horizon I trust the voters will vote with their brains and vote for reforms


----------



## Boxer123

Any one else watching his news briefing.


----------



## O2.0

Boxer123 said:


> Any one else watching his news briefing.


No, I'll watch the recaps later. 
Just saw the Piers Morgan and Rudy Giuliani fiasco that transpired on GMB yesterday. Both horrible men, what a shit show. And these are the same people who call peaceful protesters thugs. Can't even look at their own despicable behavior.


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> No, I'll watch the recaps later.
> Just saw the Piers Morgan and Rudy Giuliani fiasco that transpired on GMB yesterday. Both horrible men, what a shit show. And these are the same people who call peaceful protesters thugs. Can't even look at their own despicable behavior.


I didn't see that I do my run whilst piers is on then am back for Lorraine.


----------



## O2.0

Boxer123 said:


> I didn't see that I do my run whilst piers is on then am back for Lorraine.


Seems sensible to me


----------



## Boxer123

O2.0 said:


> Seems sensible to me


Sox doesn't like a bad tone.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Boxer123 said:


> Any one else watching his news briefing.


watching it on delay, talk about aren't I wonderful.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> watching it on delay, talk about aren't I wonderful.


I know watching that you wouldn't know they have any problems at all in America. He seems to be in his own world.


----------



## Linda Weasel

I honestly fear for all in the US.

I just saw on line DT’s appearance outside that church, and there were literally hundreds of comments saying what an amazing man their president was.

And reading on Sky news that he said George (Floydd presumably) would be happy looking down today.

God help America


----------



## Magyarmum

Linda Weasel said:


> I honestly fear for all in the US.
> 
> I just saw on line DT's appearance outside that church, and there were literally hundreds of comments saying what an amazing man their president was.
> 
> And reading on Sky news that he said George (Floydd presumably) would be happy looking down today.
> 
> God help America


https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...s-looking-down-and-admiring-us-economy-2020-6


*During a rambling Friday morning press conference about the strong May jobs report, Trump said he hoped George Floyd, the Minneapolis man who was killed by police ten days ago, was looking down and appreciating the economy. *
*The economy added 2.5 million jobs in May, bringing the unemployment rate down to 13.3% from the 14.7% rate in April. *
*"Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying, 'This is a great thing that's happening for our country,'" Trump said. "It's a great day for him, it's a great day for everybody, this is a great, great day in terms of equality."*


----------



## Dave S

Magyarmum said:


> *During a rambling Friday morning press conference about the strong May jobs report, Trump said he hoped George Floyd, the Minneapolis man who was killed by police ten days ago, was looking down and appreciating the economy. *
> 
> *The economy added 2.5 million jobs in May, bringing the unemployment rate down to 13.3% from the 14.7% rate in April. *
> 
> *"Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying, 'This is a great thing that's happening for our country,'" Trump said. "It's a great day for him, it's a great day for everybody, this is a great, great day in terms of equality."*


The man is a totally disrespectful class 1, grade A nut case.


----------



## O2.0

Went to see if I could find the highlights from Trump's press conference, saw this headline instead. Much better reading IMO

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/europe/spain-porn-star-arrest-toad-scli-intl/index.html


----------



## rona

Dave S said:


> The man is a totally disrespectful class 1, grade A nut case.


He must have a mental illness surely?


----------



## Dave S

Saw this the other day and admire your thinking, quick, email DT and let him know it prevents Covid19.


----------



## Dave S

rona said:


> He must have a mental illness surely?


This is what people are saying but he refuses to be tested.


----------



## O2.0

Is psychopathy considered a mental illness or a personality disorder? I know malignant narcissism is a personality disorder, not considered a mental illness. Though now I'm wondering what the difference is....


----------



## Jesthar

Dave S said:


> It looks like more is coming out about the whole George Floyd case.
> 
> It seems that the police officers may have been unlawfully sacked because possible "due process" had not been followed.


Well, someone needs a slap for that - hopefully it won't let any of them off the hook for anything.



Dave S said:


> It may be difficult for them to have a fair trial anywhere in the states due to the national and worldwide reaction about this death, they are only responsible for his death be it first, second or third degree murder, they are not responsible for all the marches and riots that followed.


One could argue that if they had behaved in the manner expected of officers of the law and not murdered Mr Floyd, the marches and riots wouldn't have happened. Still, I don't think anyone is suggesting they should be charged for anything other than the murder?



Dave S said:


> George himself was a reformed criminal who was trying to change his life having served several prison sentences for including aggravated burglary where he pointed a gun at a woman and searched her house for money and drugs plus various other drug offences. Ok he was released in 2014 but I bet the police make a big play about his past.


That may be unwise. It would send the message that there is no point in trying to reform as your past will still be dragged up and used aganst you even if you live a lawful life after paying the alloted price in law for your crimes. Although given that white men usually employ similar tactics as a rape defence, I wouldn't be totally surprised if it was tried.



Dave S said:


> True the police acted in the worst possible way but they would also have not known his history at that time either and he was not in fact doing anything wrong - the bill he was paying with was genuine.


The thing is, none of that after the 'but' really matters. The police knelt on someone's neck for nine minutes until they died That is all that matters. Even if he was being violent they shouldn't have subdued him face down for any longer than was necessary to restrain him, and certainly not have knelt on his neck. Instead, they went against everything in their own training manual, and a man died.



Dave S said:


> However this has escalated there is no doubt that it has been handled very badly by Trump and his administration and has severely damaged the credibility of America on the world stage whilst casting doubt about the fitness of the government to govern. As there is an election on the horizon I trust the voters will vote with their brains and vote for reforms


One would hope so. Unfortunately so far he seems to be made of Teflon...


----------



## Happy Paws2

His at it again 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52984295


----------



## Pawscrossed

So is Boris.


----------



## Calvine

MilleD said:


> A cottage loaf haired maniac?


Really strange that he and BJ seem to have the same hairdresser.


----------



## Calvine

PawsOnMe said:


> I really feel for the people having to choose between Biden and Trump, both are awful.


 It was a similar dilemma before: Trump or Hillary. That was why he got in.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> It was a similar dilemma before: Trump or Hillary. That was why he got in.


Lets hope they don't make the same mistake again.


----------



## Magyarmum

Love it!

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...i5r3aAQmYJ5CoteEfFgyj3jV0NJAd50A80nwNMNuS0j_Q

*Seattle mayor responds to Trump: 'Go back to your bunker'*


----------



## rona

Oops
https://politicalwire.com/2020/06/11/trump-thanks-s-s-for-protecting-white-house/


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## lullabydream

rona said:


> Oops
> https://politicalwire.com/2020/06/11/trump-thanks-s-s-for-protecting-white-house/


Hahaha!!!!


----------



## Magyarmum

rona said:


> Oops
> https://politicalwire.com/2020/06/11/trump-thanks-s-s-for-protecting-white-house/


He's so thick he probably doesn't even know who the SS were!


----------



## lullabydream

Magyarmum said:


> He's so thick he probably doesn't even know who the SS were!


I just told my OH about Trump and the SS.. He was like surely he knows that can't be right!


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Lets hope they don't make the same mistake again.


If he isn't re-elected, I hope at least they provide us with another stand-up comedian . . . I would get withdrawal symptoms without my daily cackle at something he has said or done.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> If he isn't re-elected, I hope at least they provide us with another stand-up comedian . . . *I woulds get withdrawal symptoms without my daily cackle at something he has said or done*.


Yes, as soon as a hear his name I think, what's he done now.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> Yes, as soon as a hear his name I think, what's he done now.


 Yes, me too, and I am sure my face lights up involuntarily. Even my son, with zero interest in politics, texts me to say, 'Did you see Trump saying/doing . . . whatever?' In fact, if you read about him in a book, you would think it too far-fetched to be true.


----------



## cheekyscrip

Calvine said:


> Yes, me too, and I am sure my face lights up involuntarily. Even my son, with zero interest in politics, texts me to say, 'Did you see Trump saying/doing . . . whatever?' In fact, if you read about him in a book, you would think it too far-fetched to be true.


Don't worry, there is always Boris...


----------



## Dave S




----------



## Magyarmum

I do so love a spot of scandal ....... watch this space

https://www.businessinsider.com/mary-trump-presidents-niece-publishing-book-tax-docs-help-nyt-2020-6

*Trump's niece is publishing a tell-all book that says she leaked tax documents to help The New York Times investigate the president's finances*


----------



## Dave S

Excellent timing to publish it - just before the elections to prove how corrupt the whole family is.


----------



## Lurcherlad

Watching the first Premier League football game since Lockdown and when the Ref blew the whistle to start the match both teams knelt on one knee.

A powerful image and message.


----------



## O2.0

Dave S said:


> Excellent timing to publish it - just before the elections to prove how corrupt the whole family is.


I love your optimism - believing people read books these days....


----------



## Magyarmum

The latest bombshell..... John Bolton's book!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/17/john-bolton-book-trump-china-dictators-saudi-arabia

*John Bolton's bombshell Trump book: eight of its most stunning claims*


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> I love your optimism - believing people read books these days....


There must be some readers out there because apparently both this book, and one about Melania and now John Bolton's book are all best sellers despite none of them have been released yet!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/books/trump-books-simon-schuster-bolton-mary-trump.html

*In the Race for Trump Tell-Alls, Simon & Schuster Is Leading*


----------



## Dave S

O2.0 said:


> I love your optimism - believing people read books these days....


I must admit that I have recently started reading books again now that I have time to do so having given up working for a living.
I might be tempted to buy one of these and have a look but in all honesty it is not my preferred type.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I've been reading The Last Empress since December, I started to read it while I was waiting to see the District Nurse at the doctors, but since lockdown I haven't been going, I did start to read it again when we had the hot weather, only got about 50 pages to read out of 336.


----------



## Sandysmum

I don't bother with 'tell all' books about politicians, especially DT. How can we believe anything that's in any of them, when there's so much contradiction going round. The chances are we'll never get to know the truth about anything that's gone on during the ginger one's tenure of the White house. It'd be worse than trying to separate out the Christmas lights after a visit from the tangle fairy and we all know how hard that is!!


----------



## Magyarmum

POTUS is holding a rally in Tulsa Oklahoma tomorrow. It's being held in a 19000 capacity indoor arena and everyone going has to sign a waiver saying they won't sue if they catch Covid-19. Apparently everyone will be tested, given sanitser and a mask, which they're not obliged to wear as they enter the arena.

A disaster waiting to happen! 

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...f8PdqlxmlfArxBfg9RwGRxjl3ybikR_4XM5nkRvF69_GA

*Trump warns protesters ahead of Tulsa rally*


----------



## Sandysmum

I just seen the BBC news and heard the orange ones latest words of wonder from the rally. Speaking about virus testing he said ' If you do more testing, you'll find more cases, so I told my people, slow down on the testing' 

WTF honestly is this man for real?


----------



## Magyarmum

jetsmum said:


> I just seen the BBC news and heard the orange ones latest words of wonder from the rally. Speaking about virus testing he said ' If you do more testing, you'll find more cases, so I told my people, slow down on the testing'
> 
> WTF honestly is this man for real?


Unfortunately Yes:Arghh

But fear not, hopefully if Saturday night is anything to go by it won't be for much longer.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/trump-furious-underwhelming-crowd-tulsa-rally-n1231674?
cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR13UbNPEJ6iFende898cUx8iLQb81DHuBIgzjnZB3S1dQz04GNxyewPtic

*Trump 'furious' about 'underwhelming' crowd at Tulsa rally*


----------



## Happy Paws2

jetsmum said:


> I just seen the BBC news and heard the orange ones latest words of wonder from the rally. Speaking about virus testing he said ' If you do more testing, you'll find more cases, so I told my people, slow down on the testing'
> 
> WTF* honestly is this man for real?*


It does make you wonder if his on the same planet as the rest of us.


----------



## Magyarmum

A very unhappy POTUS returning from Tulsa.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=262785691693432


----------



## Bisbow

Makes you want to weep for him doesn't it


----------



## catz4m8z

wow, did I just hear Trump say they are stopping testing coz it just increases the infection rates?...and that makes him look bad!

:Bored

I just,.....I mean,....what the,...its....

I swear Trump is the only person who makes me physically facepalm. Good luck, America!:Bag


----------



## Bisbow

He must think that if he ignores it,it will get fed up and go away

I'm sure he is daft enough the expect that to happen


----------



## rona

catz4m8z said:


> wow, did I just hear Trump say they are stopping testing coz it just increases the infection rates?...and that makes him look bad!


Yep, there's actually recording of it too!!

I saw those words come out of his own mouth :Arghh

Couldn't make it up could you?


----------



## Dave S

And after record virus deaths and infections he is now asking congress to scrap "Obamacare" in place of something which will not be available to as many people.

What a President.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> A very unhappy POTUS returning from Tulsa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=262785691693432


Not a happy bunny is he.


----------



## Jesthar

catz4m8z said:


> wow, did I just hear Trump say they are stopping testing coz it just increases the infection rates?...and that makes him look bad!
> 
> :Bored
> 
> I just,.....I mean,....what the,...its....
> 
> I swear Trump is the only person who makes me physically facepalm. Good luck, America!:Bag


Not the first time he's said it either...


----------



## Happy Paws2

just makes you wonder what his going to say next.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Brilliant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53208593


----------



## Dave S

Saw that and thought if he can't use Rolling Stones or Tom Petty music what can he use.

I thought either the 1960's classic - "Eve of Destruction" by Barry McGuire or more recently "I predict a riot".

What do you think?


----------



## Dave S

What's happened, he's been very quiet in the last few days.

Has he gone into hospital for a charisma realignment?
Has he got _THE_ virus?
Has his battery run out?
Has his wife tied him to the bed post and gone shopping?
Has he gone back to his mother-ship?
Has he had gender realignment and coming back as Doris Trump?

Come on, it's bad enough that Alan Carr and his silly voice is all over the television when all we want is entertainment.

Bring back the Orange One!!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> What's happened, he's been very quiet in the last few days.
> Come on, it's bad enough that Alan Carr and his silly voice is all over the television when all we want is entertainment.
> 
> Bring back the Orange One!!


The one thing about Trump is..as soon as I heard his name, I think what's he said or done now!

He always good for a laugh


----------



## Bisbow

He is having a sulk because he did not get the attention he craves in Tulsa and his aides are keeping him hidden before he does more harm


----------



## O2.0

Dave S said:


> What's happened, he's been very quiet in the last few days.


He had to delete his tweet where he retweeted a rally with a man shouting *********** and called them "great people" 
His staff (apparently calling them apologists is an aggressive put-down), claimed he didn't hear the '***********' part and just likes the people of that retirement village. Of course he does they all had Trump signs, who cares if they're also white nationalists right?

Not a day later he's retweeting the video of the crazy St. Louis couple waving a handgun and assault rifle at peaceful protesters.

I'd be perfectly happy for him to shut up for a while.


----------



## Cully

Can't they just put him in an institution until considered no longer any harm to himself or others?


----------



## O2.0

Cully said:


> Can't they just put him in an institution until considered no longer any harm to himself or others?


The republicans would block that effort. 
We already tried impeaching him. Even that didn't work.


----------



## Jesthar

Dave S said:


> What's happened, he's been very quiet in the last few days.
> 
> Has he gone into hospital for a charisma realignment?
> Has he got _THE_ virus?
> Has his battery run out?
> Has his wife tied him to the bed post and gone shopping?
> Has he gone back to his mother-ship?
> Has he had gender realignment and coming back as Doris Trump?
> 
> Come on, it's bad enough that Alan Carr and his silly voice is all over the television when all we want is entertainment.
> 
> Bring back the Orange One!!


Maybe they locked him in the bunker, for safety (everyone else's, that is  )

Incidentally, one of the latest Randy Rainbow videos is an absolute classic on that subject  :


----------



## Happy Paws2

Brilliant :Hilarious


----------



## Dave S

Tom Swarbrick hosts a phone in on LBC at night, last night - Tuesday 30th June - he did an interview with Anthony Scaramucci - "The Mooch" who was Trumps former communications director in 2017.
Very interesting if you want to listen click the link and move to 1 hour 4 minutes - (interview ends at 1 hour 22 mins) it lasts about an hour but resolves some of the questions we have on here.

https://www.globalplayer.com/catchup/lbc/uk/b8FPhVP/


----------



## Magyarmum

Scaramucci was the WH Press officer who lasted for about ten days in the job before being sacked for using foul Language at the media briefings


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just heard and seen this........US President Donald Trump, long opposed to wearing a face covering in public, says he is "all for masks" *and they make him look like the Lone Ranger.*

Didn't the Lone Ranger wear a mask over his eyes, I'd say he'll look more like an outlaw.


----------



## MissyfromMice




----------



## Happy Paws2

MissyfromMice said:


> View attachment 443806


Like it... but shouldn't he wear two another over that big mouth.


----------



## MissyfromMice




----------



## Calvine

Just read today that Kanye West is running for president. So he has tweeted.


----------



## cheekyscrip

So basically China got Hong Kong Putin is elected for life, there is no one to stop it. USA is weak. EU is weakened. 
Russian bots won the propaganda war.
Both in USA and in UK.

So much for Great Again.


----------



## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> Just read today that Kanye West is running for president. So he has tweeted.


he tweeted it during the last election too
dont forget him and trump are as close as a fist inside a glove
A deluded pop star, following a deluded bankrupt is just about the worse thing that can happen to the usa
BIGGEST problem the US has, is
the opposition have no one with the semblence of honesty, honour,generosity, grace, youth and is also genial enough to appeal to the citizens and the oomph and backing, to beat the trump and his cohorts


----------



## Happy Paws2

Just read this......

California and Texas report more than 10,000 new cases in a day - Reuters tally shows

President Trump says he thinks the US is "in a good place"


----------



## kimthecat

cheekyscrip said:


> So basically China got Hong Kong Putin is elected for life, there is no one to stop it. USA is weak. EU is weakened.
> Russian bots won the propaganda war.
> Both in USA and in UK.
> 
> So much for Great Again.


You forgot Covid 19 .


----------



## cheekyscrip

kimthecat said:


> You forgot Covid 19 .


Who knows? Seems Covid 19 type of virus was found in the mines in 2013 in China, four out of 7 affected died. This virus was investigated in lab in Wuhan.
Pity I lost the link!

Trump threatened China... now he made secret deal with them because things in USA are pretty dire and he is happy to make secret deals while officially "China will pay".

On home turf Boris blames care home staff for Covid deaths!!!'
One wonders which one is worse?


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MilleD




----------



## ChaosCat

No words

Trump: 'What a terrible question to ask' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53413162


----------



## Cully

ChaosCat said:


> No words
> 
> Trump: 'What a terrible question to ask' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53413162


Won't open says it's been blocked!


----------



## ChaosCat

Cully said:


> Won't open says it's been blocked!


Oops... Mr. Trump answered that more white than black people get killed by police violence to a reporter's question how it can be that still black people get killed by police.


----------



## Cully

ChaosCat said:


> Oops... Mr. Trump answered that more white than black people get killed by police violence to a reporter's question how it can be that still black people get killed by police.


Ah I see. No sign of any moral issue with police violence then. I'm not suprised it was blocked then.


----------



## O2.0

Non blocked version:
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-53413162/trump-what-a-terrible-question-to-ask


----------



## Happy Paws2

O2.0 said:


> Non blocked version:
> https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-53413162/trump-what-a-terrible-question-to-ask


Nothing that man surprises me anymore


----------



## Lurcherlad

Seen on Facebook


----------



## Magyarmum

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/16/...gti6DE37xh6S5jpdMpK25B9KLOn1f27ULV4sRPQBE5GIk

*As Trump refuses to lead, America tries to save itself*


----------



## Sandysmum

Magyarmum said:


> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/16/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-leadership/index.html?utm_content=2020-07-16T10:00:06&utm_medium=social&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_term=link&fbclid=IwAR3s4KU1lWcqELgti6DE37xh6S5jpdMpK25B9KLOn1f27ULV4sRPQBE5GIk
> 
> *As Trump refuses to lead, America tries to save itself*


 If their leader won't lead, then good for them for going it on their own. Maybe it'll make the orange one sit up and take notice, but I doubt it.


----------



## MissyfromMice

jetsmum said:


> If their leader won't lead, then good for them for going it on their own. Maybe it'll make the orange one sit up and take notice, but I doubt it.


So sad...


----------



## MissyfromMice

Another example of Trump's wrong priorities...

"(...)The official portraits of former Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were removed from the Grand Foyer of the White House within the last week, aides told CNN, and replaced by those of two Republican presidents who served more than a century ago.(...)"

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/white-house-portraits-clinton-bush-trump/index.html


----------



## Magyarmum

MissyfromMice said:


> Another example of Trump's wrong priorities...
> 
> "(...)The official portraits of former Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were removed from the Grand Foyer of the White House within the last week, aides told CNN, and replaced by those of two Republican presidents who served more than a century ago.(...)"
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/white-house-portraits-clinton-bush-trump/index.html


The man is going cuckoo. Yesterday, in the middle of a pandemic he was ranting on about shower heads, dishwashers and light bulbs!

https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/17/dona...sees-record-77000-coronavirus-cases-13004128/

*Donald Trump rants about dishwashers as US sees record 77,000 new coronavirus cases*


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> The man is going cuckoo. Yesterday, in the middle of a pandemic he was ranting on about shower heads, dishwashers and light bulbs!
> 
> https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/17/dona...sees-record-77000-coronavirus-cases-13004128/
> 
> *Donald Trump rants about dishwashers as US sees record 77,000 new coronavirus cases*


He was joking. "I don't know about you, but my hair has to be perfect" was said as a joke, his tongue firmly planted in his cheek, knowing full well the memes and jokes about his hair. We have to be careful, most news reports are highly biased and edited, watching his full speeches, you can see that he's nowhere near as bad as they make out imo.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> watching his full speeches, you can see that he's nowhere near as bad as they make out imo.


Really? I find him worse. 
I agree the media focuses on things that don't really matter and makes moutains out of molehills, but Trump is every bit as bad as he appears and then some.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Elles said:


> watching his full speeches, you can see that he's nowhere near as bad as they make out imo.


:Woot:Jawdrop


----------



## Magyarmum

I'm not quite sure which planet Trump lives on 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/transcript-fox-news-sunday-interview-with-president-trump

*Transcript: 'Fox News Sunday' interview with President Trump*


----------



## MissyfromMice

Magyarmum said:


> I'm not quite sure which planet Trump lives on
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/politics/transcript-fox-news-sunday-interview-with-president-trump
> 
> *Transcript: 'Fox News Sunday' interview with President Trump*


He's living in a fantasy world, like most people with a narcissistic personality disorder do.

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder.htm

"(...) Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding. This way of thinking and behaving surfaces in every area of the narcissist's life: from work and friendships to family and love relationships.(...)"

"(...)
*Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder*
*Grandiose sense of self-importance (...)*
*Lives in a fantasy world that supports their delusions of grandeur (...)*
*Needs constant praise and admiration (...)*
*Sense of entitlement (...)*
*Exploits others without guilt or shame (...)*
*Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others (...)"*


----------



## Dave S

MissyfromMice said:


> He's living in a fantasy world, like most people with a narcissistic personality disorder do.
> 
> https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder.htm
> 
> "(...) Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding. This way of thinking and behaving surfaces in every area of the narcissist's life: from work and friendships to family and love relationships.(...)"
> 
> "(...)
> *Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder*
> *Grandiose sense of self-importance (...)*
> *Lives in a fantasy world that supports their delusions of grandeur (...)*
> *Needs constant praise and admiration (...)*
> *Sense of entitlement (...)*
> *Exploits others without guilt or shame (...)*
> *Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others (...)"*


Seems like a nice boy then...……………
Quite honestly I am surprised that people still believe in him.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> Quite honestly I am surprised that people still believe in him.


Same here, I do worry about America, they voted for him once and I can see them doing it again.


----------



## Elles

I’m part way through watching the interview. Trump is taking the advice of his advisors and experts, who also give him the figures. He’s not making it up and he doesn’t sound mentally impaired to me. People who might vote for him again, will see nothing in the interview to change their mind imo. Be interesting to see what he does about the healthcare in the next couple of weeks. I’m not going to watch the whole thing, it’s long and boring.


----------



## Elles

OMG I just watched the Joe Biden virtual rally for Tampa. I'm sorry O2, but is it for real? I'm trying to see the other side, but fell on this and I'm literally crying with laughter, the comments are golden. :Hilarious






Poor America. I thought we had it bad enough with Corbyn vs Boris, but when you guys do bad, you really do bad. The DJ. :Headphone :Hilarious :Bag


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> I'm part way through watching the interview. Trump is taking the advice of his advisors and experts, who also give him the figures. He's not making it up and he doesn't sound mentally impaired to me. People who might vote for him again, will see nothing in the interview to change their mind imo. Be interesting to see what he does about the healthcare in the next couple of weeks. I'm not going to watch the whole thing, it's long and boring.


Are we even talking about the same interview?


----------



## Elles

Jesthar said:


> Are we even talking about the same interview?


If it's the one where he has his main advisor nearby, handing him paperwork with the stats on it, yes. He can only go on what they're advising and showing him.


----------



## Dave S

DT Jnr has been banned from posting on Twitter for 12 hours, wonder if dad will also be banned.

Meanwhile part of daddys new wall has blown down due to storm Hannah.


----------



## Magyarmum

Dave S said:


> DT Jnr has been banned from postingto on Twitter for 12 hours, wonder if dad will also be banned.
> x
> 
> They've both been norti boys for posting a video extolling the use of hydroxychloroquine which went viral on Twitter and Facebook where I saw it.
> 
> Naturally they haven'y managed to remove it from everywhere and if anyone wants to see what all the fuss is about, this is an article from Australia.
> 
> Please remove it if it's not allowed.
> 
> https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...9/news-story/e18cc2609a7aa322104227f53734eb81
> 
> *Coronavirus: US doctor claims she's cured COVID-19*


----------



## Magyarmum

*News Thump

Tuesday 28 July 2020 by Neil Tollfree*

*Concern for Biden campaign as experts predict Trump could remember eight or nine words by November*









*There was growing concern in the Joe Biden Presidential campaign that Donald Trump could improve on his impressive ability to remember five words and increase that to as many eight or even nine words by the time of the election in November.*

"I would say that, provided he works hard and really focuses, it is not hard to imagine Donald Trump, the leader of the free world, being able to remember eight or nine words," said Simon Williams, Professor of Words at Yale University.

"He would need to stick to short ones - cat, shoe, crime - but yes, remembering nine words is a definite possibility."

The prospect represents a serious concern for the Biden camp.

"When we learnt Trump could remember five words - 'person', 'woman', 'man', 'camera' and 'TV' - we were worried. Really worried. This was going to be far tougher fight than we'd envisioned," explained Biden team representative Eleanor Gay.

"I mean, he always said he was the greatest President ever, but being able to remember five words? Maybe he was. But now, we could be up against someone who can remember eight or even nine words? This is going to be the fight of our lives."

The only consolation for the Biden team is that while, with extensive training, Trump may be able to remember eight or nine words, it is unlikely there is enough time left for him to learn how to formulate them into any sort of coherent sentence.


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> *News Thump
> 
> Tuesday 28 July 2020 by Neil Tollfree*
> 
> *Concern for Biden campaign as experts predict Trump could remember eight or nine words by November*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *There was growing concern in the Joe Biden Presidential campaign that Donald Trump could improve on his impressive ability to remember five words and increase that to as many eight or even nine words by the time of the election in November.*
> 
> "I would say that, provided he works hard and really focuses, it is not hard to imagine Donald Trump, the leader of the free world, being able to remember eight or nine words," said Simon Williams, Professor of Words at Yale University.
> 
> "He would need to stick to short ones - cat, shoe, crime - but yes, remembering nine words is a definite possibility."
> 
> The prospect represents a serious concern for the Biden camp.
> 
> "When we learnt Trump could remember five words - 'person', 'woman', 'man', 'camera' and 'TV' - we were worried. Really worried. This was going to be far tougher fight than we'd envisioned," explained Biden team representative Eleanor Gay.
> 
> "I mean, he always said he was the greatest President ever, but being able to remember five words? Maybe he was. But now, we could be up against someone who can remember eight or even nine words? This is going to be the fight of our lives."
> 
> The only consolation for the Biden team is that while, with extensive training, Trump may be able to remember eight or nine words, it is unlikely there is enough time left for him to learn how to formulate them into any sort of coherent sentence.


:Hilarious:Hilarious

Biden is so bad, if DT can remember more than 5 words he's stuffed. How funny.


----------



## MollySmith

Do watch the rise and fall of Rupert Murdoch, it’s on BBC 2 right now and the relationship between Murdoch and Trump. Advance apologies, also features an interview with Farage.


----------



## Happy Paws2

US President Donald Trump has again defended the use of hydroxychloroquine to ward off coronavirus, contradicting his own public health officials.

He said the malaria medication was only rejected as a Covid-19 treatment because he had recommended its use.


----------



## Elles

Happy Paws2 said:


> US President Donald Trump has again defended the use of hydroxychloroquine to ward off coronavirus, contradicting his own public health officials.
> 
> He said the malaria medication was only rejected as a Covid-19 treatment because he had recommended its use.


From British researchers 2 days ago :

"The Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit (MORU) is conducting mass clinical trials and has enrolled 40,000 frontline workers in Europe, Africa, Asia and South America, giving participants either chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine or a placebo.

Professor Sir Nick White, who's leading the trial, said: "Most experts agree there is a much better chance of benefit in prevention than treatment."

This study is able to resume after being placed on hold following the fallout from The Lancet's retracted study."


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> From British researchers 2 days ago :
> 
> "The Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit (MORU) is conducting mass clinical trials and has enrolled 40,000 frontline workers in Europe, Africa, Asia and South America, giving participants either chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine or a placebo.
> 
> Professor Sir Nick White, who's leading the trial, said: "Most experts agree there is a much better chance of benefit in prevention than treatment."
> 
> This study is able to resume after being placed on hold following the fallout from The Lancet's retracted study."


The voice of sanity and one I'd rather believe than Trump or the doctor whose opinions he's now touting.

https://www.tropmedres.ac/covid-19/copcov/copcov-key-messages


----------



## O2.0

Let's be clear. 
Trump and Trump Jr shared a video (since taken down) of a bunch of doctors talking about covid-19, that included a lot of misinformation and inaccuracies along with factual information as well. 
One of the claims is that hydroxychloroquine is a cure. The doctor claiming this was claiming it based on the fact that she treated patients with hydroxychloroquine and they all got better. Okay. *Most* people with covid-19 get better. The vast majority of people who contract covid-19 get better with no treatment at all, just home care. So saying that she saw patients with covid-19, gave them hydroxychloroquine, they got better, therefore hydroxychloroquine works is at best irrelevant, at worst extremely ignorant of how science and scientific study works. 

And trying to make out doctors not using hydroxychloroquine as deliberately witholding treatment is unfair and inaccurate. The fact is we don't know yet if hydroxychloroquine is helpful, initial studies show it's not and can potentially have harmful side effects. So it needs further study - with good science. Not anecdotes.

Look up Dr Stella Immanuel, she's a friggin' train wreck who talks about demon sperm and Aliens impregnating women in their dreams. And this is who Trump holds up as a source to pay attention to. God help us all....

The antidote to misinformation and hysteria is not more misinformation and conspiracy theory hysteria. It's accurate infomration based on sound study and science.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> Let's be clear.
> Trump and Trump Jr shared a video (since taken down) of a bunch of doctors talking about covid-19, that included a lot of misinformation and inaccuracies along with factual information as well.
> One of the claims is that hydroxychloroquine is a cure. The doctor claiming this was claiming it based on the fact that she treated patients with hydroxychloroquine and they all got better. Okay. *Most* people with covid-19 get better. The vast majority of people who contract covid-19 get better with no treatment at all, just home care. So saying that she saw patients with covid-19, gave them hydroxychloroquine, they got better, therefore hydroxychloroquine works is at best irrelevant, at worst extremely ignorant of how science and scientific study works.
> 
> And trying to make out doctors not using hydroxychloroquine as deliberately witholding treatment is unfair and inaccurate. The fact is we don't know yet if hydroxychloroquine is helpful, initial studies show it's not and can potentially have harmful side effects. So it needs further study - with good science. Not anecdotes.
> 
> Look up Dr Stella Immanuel, she's a friggin' train wreck who talks about demon sperm and Aliens impregnating women in their dreams. And this is who Trump holds up as a source to pay attention to. God help us all....
> 
> The antidote to misinformation and hysteria is not more misinformation and conspiracy theory hysteria. It's accurate infomration based on sound study and science.


For anyone who wants to see the video it's in this article :

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...9/news-story/e18cc2609a7aa322104227f53734eb81

*Coronavirus: US doctor claims she's cured COVID-19*

And in an interview on CNN today (which I listened to in total) Peter Navarro Trade Advisor to the White house was also pushing the drug. Maybe though the fact that they have tens of millions of tablets in the Strategic Stockpile might ..... just might ........... have something to do with it!

https://sports.yahoo.com/flouting-scientific-evidence-white-house-141941237.html

*Flouting scientific evidence, White House trade adviser defends debunked covid treatment*



.


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> The voice of sanity and one I'd rather believe than Trump or the doctor whose opinions he's now touting.
> 
> https://www.tropmedres.ac/covid-19/copcov/copcov-key-messages


The doctor I quoted in my post.


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> The doctor I quoted in my post.


I know that!

The article you posted was dated 30th June.

The article and interview I posted was from a few a few days ago and is basically an update on the trials MORU are doing

Did you listen to what he had to say? Unless I'm mistaken it was that to date no conclusion either way had been reached about the efficacy of the drug.

I'll believe what Dr Anthony Fauci and Professor Sir Nick White have to say about the virus rather than a cultist who advocates drinking bleach or a doctor who believes demons cause illness

Trump's not pushing hydroxychloroquine because he cares for his fellow Americans, he's doing it for his own self interests.


----------



## Elles

I didn’t link to an article, I quoted the doctor from two days ago, he linked the article, not me. 

It says the same as the video you linked and tbh doesn’t really contradict what DT is saying about the drug maybe helping pre covid. The fake lancet article that totally dismissed the drug, I have no doubt came about because Donald Trump mentioned it. Hence, sorry guys, I’m not about to take aquarium bleach, but I’m on the Donald’s side this time. I think he has reason to believe what he does, even if I’m personally waiting while the juries still out.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> It says the same as the video you linked and tbh doesn't really contradict what DT is saying about the drug maybe helping pre covid.


I'm not seeing Trump saying hydroxychloroquine might work prophylactically, I'm seeing him promote doctors who say it works as a *cure* for covid-19. 
And we don't know yet if it works to prevent covid-19 because the studies haven't been done or completed. And this drug has significant risk for people with heart disease - who are already more susceptible to worse covid infections.

But let's go with your version. That it works as a preventative. The evidence for vitamin D is more compelling than the evidence for hydroxychloroquine, why is he not encouraging folks to take vitamin D?

I'm not one to discount every thing Trump says just because it was him who said it, but he's really not clear enough on any science to be commenting on any of it, and he is way too enamoured of Q-Anon conspiracy theories as it is.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> I'm not seeing Trump saying hydroxychloroquine might work prophylactically, I'm seeing him promote doctors who say it works as a *cure* for covid-19.
> And we don't know yet if it works to prevent covid-19 because the studies haven't been done or completed. And this drug has significant risk for people with heart disease - who are already more susceptible to worse covid infections.
> 
> But let's go with your version. That it works as a preventative. The evidence for vitamin D is more compelling than the evidence for hydroxychloroquine, why is he not encouraging folks to take vitamin D?
> 
> I'm not one to discount every thing Trump says just because it was him who said it, but he's really not clear enough on any science to be commenting on any of it, and he is way too enamoured of Q-Anon conspiracy theories as it is.


I agree that he shouldn't be promoting it. What I'm saying is that I think I understand why he is. He has experts advising him and, especially in election year, wants to appear ahead of the curve. It's not because he's stupid imo, which people are saying about him, but rather the opposite. There is an excellent chance that he will be proved right, even if just in a small way, as preventative, and his critics will end up, again, with egg on their face. The fake news surrounding DT can potentially be his greatest weapon and there is such a lot of it. 

Over here talking about vit D is considered in some circles, racist and islamaphobic, don't know about the US. Most people living in sunny climes don't suffer vit D deficiency, especially in the summer and in the West.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> Over here talking about vit D is considered in some circles, racist and islamaphobic, don't know about the US. Most people living in sunny climes don't suffer vit D deficiency, especially in the summer and in the West.


People of darker pigmented skin who move to northern climates are far more likely to suffer vitamin D deficiency, that's a known fact. Nothing racist about it. 
I live in the southern US, spend a lot of time outside, tan easily, don't ever wear sunblock, even on my face, AND take a vitamin D supplement. 
What an utter shame if sound science is discounted because of racism claims.

As I understand what I have read, vitamin D doesn't help prevent covid-19, but a deficiency (most people in developed nations are somewhat deficient) seems to correlate with higher rates of infection and more severe infections.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> What an utter shame if sound science is discounted because of racism claims.


I agree, but unfortunately the world has gone mad.

I don't take supplements and don't know anyone who does. I think that's maybe more of an American thing too. Or maybe it's just where I live.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> I don't take supplements and don't know anyone who does. I think that's maybe more of an American thing too. Or maybe it's just where I live.


No, it's not an American thing. UK residents are more likely to supplement as they're more likely to be deficient in the first place, and in turn more likely to be prescribed the supplementation and the NHS pays for it. Here in the states we have to pay for our own supplements. Or go out in the sun. 
https://www.pharmaceutical-journal....hine-vitamin/20207521.article?firstPass=false


----------



## Rafa

I take a prescribed calcium and vitamin D supplement every day, as I'm on a hormone blocker.

Vitamin D boosts the immune system.


----------



## Siskin

I take vitamin D amongst several other supplements, because I’m extremely fair skinned and burn easily in the sun therefore I cover up and keep out of it. I always take it during the winter. I also take evening primrose oil to stop my skin totally drying out, turmeric complex (glucosamine and chondroitin) for arthritis and prescribed iron for anaemia.


----------



## kimthecat

. Wrong thread


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> No, it's not an American thing. UK residents are more likely to supplement as they're more likely to be deficient in the first place, and in turn more likely to be prescribed the supplementation and the NHS pays for it. Here in the states we have to pay for our own supplements. Or go out in the sun.
> https://www.pharmaceutical-journal....hine-vitamin/20207521.article?firstPass=false


The NHS pay towards it, but I think a prescription is about £8 or £9? so for some supplements it's probably cheaper to buy your own, unless you in the free prescription category. Elles and Aria are on all sorts of stuff, but not me ofc.  I got given folic acid when I was pregnant, but that's it. My bloods all came back ok, last time I was tested a couple of years back. One of my friends does take cbd oil, But she has to buy it.


----------



## Elles

I’m meaning generally healthy people though. I saw a tv programme where Americans were taking so many supplements I’m surprised they didn’t rattle when they walked, so I’m being whatever it is when you make assumptions about Americans. :Hilarious


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> I saw a tv programme where Americans were taking so many supplements I'm surprised they didn't rattle when they walked,


Don't believe everything you see on TV 

There is indeed a huge supplement industry in the US, and there is a certain population of people who are all about the supplements. But most Americans are as uninterested in their health and ways to improve it as they appear.

I used to not take vitamin D because I am very outdoorsy, but reading more info I decided it wouldn't hurt, so I do. Since Covid-19 I've been telling the kids to take vitamin D too. All of us take b-12. 
When I make smoothies I add a supergreens powder to it.

A couple of my friends also supplement, but most do not and don't think about health needs or nutrient requirements at all.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

O2.0 said:


> Don't believe everything you see on TV
> 
> There is indeed a huge supplement industry in the US, and there is a certain population of people who are all about the supplements. But most Americans are as uninterested in their health and ways to improve it as they appear.
> 
> I used to not take vitamin D because I am very outdoorsy, but reading more info I decided it wouldn't hurt, so I do. Since Covid-19 I've been telling the kids to take vitamin D too. All of us take b-12.
> When I make smoothies I add a supergreens powder to it.
> 
> A couple of my friends also supplement, but most do not and don't think about health needs or nutrient requirements at all.


 There is a fairly big supplement industry in the UK too, taking supplements is certainly not an `American thing`. I must admit I am terrible at taking supplements and rarely take them but I feel I am in the minority as most people I know are much better at taking supplements than me especially B12 and Vit D.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> There is an excellent chance that he will be proved right, even if just in a small way, as preventative,


Sorry, meant to reply to this part as well, and forgot about it in the supplement discussion.

Let's follow this thought train for a second. That hydroxychloroquine is effective as a preventative for covid-19.
In the US, doctors have been using a combination of hydroxychloroquine and antibiotics since the beginning of the pandemic - in patients who can tolerate it (don't forget the side effects of hydroxychloroquine can be deadly for certain heart conditions).
So US doctors are well aware of hydroxychloroquine, and have good access to it.

Does anyone really believe that doctors who are constantly exposed to covid-19 would not be taking this drug if they thought it could prevent infection? Would not be giving it to their family members? Do we really think that doctors who have access to a miraculous cure or preventative aren't using it for themselves and their loved ones?
But they're not.
So what does that tell you? It tells me that it's not the miracle cure-all they're trying to make it out to be.

Is the media getting things wrong? Absolutely.
Are they ramping up the anxiety and hysteria? Totally.

I'm going to keep repeating this because it's important: you don't counter misinformation and hysteria with different misinformation and hysteria. You counter it with discernable facts and sound science.

Facts that we know: 
Most people recover from covid-19 with no medical intervention. 
Many people are being repeatedly exposed to covid-19 and never contract the virus. There are hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers who are constantly exposed to covid-19, are being tested regularly, and are testing negative. Why are we not studying these people?


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Sorry, meant to reply to this part as well, and forgot about it in the supplement discussion.
> 
> Let's follow this thought train for a second. That hydroxychloroquine is effective as a preventative for covid-19.
> In the US, doctors have been using a combination of hydroxychloroquine and antibiotics since the beginning of the pandemic - in patients who can tolerate it (don't forget the side effects of hydroxychloroquine can be deadly for certain heart conditions).
> So US doctors are well aware of hydroxychloroquine, and have good access to it.
> 
> Does anyone really believe that doctors who are constantly exposed to covid-19 would not be taking this drug if they thought it could prevent infection? Would not be giving it to their family members? Do we really think that doctors who have access to a miraculous cure or preventative aren't using it for themselves and their loved ones?
> But they're not.
> So what does that tell you? It tells me that it's not the miracle cure-all they're trying to make it out to be.
> 
> Is the media getting things wrong? Absolutely.
> Are they ramping up the anxiety and hysteria? Totally.
> 
> I'm going to keep repeating this because it's important: you don't counter misinformation and hysteria with different misinformation and hysteria. You counter it with discernable facts and sound science.
> 
> Facts that we know:
> Most people recover from covid-19 with no medical intervention.
> Many people are being repeatedly exposed to covid-19 and never contract the virus. There are hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers who are constantly exposed to covid-19, are being tested regularly, and are testing negative. Why are we not studying these people?


Because there's no money in healthy people.

Where have I countered misinformation and hysteria with misinformation and hysteria and not used discernible facts and science? I even quoted the lead scientist doing research on this stuff.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> Where have I countered misinformation and hysteria with misinformation and hysteria and not used discernible facts and science? I even quoted the lead scientist doing research on this stuff.


You haven't, but Trump most definitely has, and is.

And now he's calling to delay the election, god help us all....


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> You haven't, but Trump most definitely has, and is.
> 
> And now he's calling to delay the election, god help us all....


Yes and all I was saying is that he isn't doing it because he's stupid. There is some truth in what he's saying, you just said yourself that doctors have been using the stuff since the start of the pandemic. I wouldn't know if they're taking it themselves, or are treating DT with it ofc.

This video is obviously from an extremely biased source. However? The more the left/democrats try to discredit him, the worse it is for them imo.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

O2.0 said:


> You haven't, but Trump most definitely has, and is.
> 
> And now he's calling to delay the election, god help us all....


Can he do this O2.0?


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> you just said yourself that doctors have been using the stuff since the start of the pandemic. I wouldn't know if they're taking it themselves,


If doctors thought it really helped you can bet they'd be taking it, but they're not. They're not giving it to their loved ones either. It's just not that helpful.



3dogs2cats said:


> Can he do this O2.0?


I really don't think he can, but never say never with this guy


----------



## Elles

Needs an act of Congress apparently. Funny if they don’t delay and he wins.. “the most corrupt election in US history”.


----------



## 3dogs2cats

O2.0 said:


> If doctors thought it really helped you can bet they'd be taking it, but they're not. They're not giving it to their loved ones either. It's just not that helpful.
> 
> I really don't think he can, but never say never with this guy


 No wouldn`t put anything past him! I was reading that the American presidency must come to a finish every 4 years so surely his term would come to an end.


----------



## O2.0

Is John Lewis being covered at all in the UK news? Just wondering.

He died July 17, spend two days lying in state at the US Capitol in Washington DC, and his funeral is today in Atlanta Georgia.
He was an incredible man, one of the original Freedom Riders, marched alongside Dr. Martin Luther King, and went on to have a 30 year career as a congressman, became known as the 'conscience of congress'. Really an amazing life that has traversed all the layers of unpeeling of racism in the country as we try to figure it all out.

Donald Trump did not go to the Capitol to pay respects to John Lewis.
Nor is he attending John Lewis' funeral today.
That says so much about the kind of person he is. Petty. Childish. Can't separate policy differences from personal ones.

I remember when John McCain and Barack Obama were campaigning against each other. McCain held a town hall and one woman got up and said Obama was a terrorist or some such. McCain stopped her mid sentence and corrected her that Obama was a good man, with good intentions, that they both want what's best for this country, they just differ on how to get there.
Trump did not attend John McCain's funeral, granted, he was not invited either.

All the politicians on both sides of the isle making a point to pay respects to a great man and Trump can't be bothered. He has not one single redeeming quality. Not one. 

Oh, and if you're interested, short read but powerful. John Lewis' essay he wrote on his death bed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/john-lewis-civil-rights-america.html


----------



## Elles

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeat...exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Is John Lewis being covered at all in the UK news? Just wondering.
> 
> He died July 17, spend two days lying in state at the US Capitol in Washington DC, and his funeral is today in Atlanta Georgia.
> He was an incredible man, one of the original Freedom Riders, marched alongside Dr. Martin Luther King, and went on to have a 30 year career as a congressman, became known as the 'conscience of congress'. Really an amazing life that has traversed all the layers of unpeeling of racism in the country as we try to figure it all out.
> 
> Donald Trump did not go to the Capitol to pay respects to John Lewis.
> Nor is he attending John Lewis' funeral today.
> That says so much about the kind of person he is. Petty. Childish. Can't separate policy differences from personal ones.
> 
> I remember when John McCain and Barack Obama were campaigning against each other. McCain held a town hall and one woman got up and said Obama was a terrorist or some such. McCain stopped her mid sentence and corrected her that Obama was a good man, with good intentions, that they both want what's best for this country, they just differ on how to get there.
> Trump did not attend John McCain's funeral, granted, he was not invited either.
> 
> All the politicians on both sides of the isle making a point to pay respects to a great man and Trump can't be bothered. He has not one single redeeming quality. Not one.
> 
> Oh, and if you're interested, short read but powerful. John Lewis' essay he wrote on his death bed.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/john-lewis-civil-rights-america.html


Yes, I'd seen it.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Is John Lewis being covered at all in the UK news? Just wondering.
> 
> He died July 17, spend two days lying in state at the US Capitol in Washington DC, and his funeral is today in Atlanta Georgia.
> He was an incredible man, one of the original Freedom Riders, marched alongside Dr. Martin Luther King, and went on to have a 30 year career as a congressman, became known as the 'conscience of congress'. Really an amazing life that has traversed all the layers of unpeeling of racism in the country as we try to figure it all out.
> 
> Donald Trump did not go to the Capitol to pay respects to John Lewis.
> Nor is he attending John Lewis' funeral today.
> That says so much about the kind of person he is. Petty. Childish. Can't separate policy differences from personal ones.
> 
> I remember when John McCain and Barack Obama were campaigning against each other. McCain held a town hall and one woman got up and said Obama was a terrorist or some such. McCain stopped her mid sentence and corrected her that Obama was a good man, with good intentions, that they both want what's best for this country, they just differ on how to get there.
> Trump did not attend John McCain's funeral, granted, he was not invited either.
> 
> All the politicians on both sides of the isle making a point to pay respects to a great man and Trump can't be bothered. He has not one single redeeming quality. Not one.
> 
> Oh, and if you're interested, short read but powerful. John Lewis' essay he wrote on his death bed.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/john-lewis-civil-rights-america.html


Trump was asked not to go to McCain's and the Trump children were criticised for going. Trump expressed sympathy and had the flags at half mast for John Lewis. Obama was also criticised for not attending funerals. Do we actually know the reason he's not attending, it would certainly cause a huge media stir and likely upset the family if he did.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeat...exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535


So which story are you going with, that hydroxychloroquine is a cure or a preventative or both?

This article is claiming it's a cure. 
But again, most people who contract covid-19, even in high risk populations, are going to get better. We don't know if they're getting better because they would anyway, because of the hydroxychloroquine, the azithromycin, the zink or the vitamin c or the combination there of. The studies just haven't been completed yet. We don't know.

What we do know is that most people who get sick get better. 
What we do know is that many people who get exposed never get sick. Even with multiple exposures.

Without carefully constructed studies with control groups, matched for age, co-morbidities and those conducting the study not knowing who gets the placebo and who gets the meds, we are doing no more than supersticion.
I make sure to tell everyone in the house goodbye before driving anywhere. I do this every time and every time I do it I don't get in an accident. Therefore my behavior of saying goodbye to everyone works to avoid accidents. Nevermind that the vast majority of people who drive don't ever have an accident, and even in an accident rarely get badly injured. It's definitely my behavior before I leave that's protecting me. See? It's the same silly thinking.

We DO have double blind studies, and those studies show no difference. 
If you want to take hydroxychloroquine 'cause it makes you feel safer by all means do so. I'm going to continue my pre-leaving ritual 'cause it makes me feel better. But I'm not going to assume anyone not doing the same ritual I am wants to get in an accident, and I'm not going to assume doctors not giving hydroxychloroquine are doing so 'cause they want their patients to die.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> Trump was asked not to go to McCain's and the Trump children were criticised for going. Trump expressed sympathy and had the flags at half mast for John Lewis. Obama was also criticised for not attending funerals. Do we actually know the reason he's not attending, it would certainly cause a huge media stir and likely upset the family if he did.


Do you actually believe he would not do something for fear of being criticized or because he didn't want to upset someone? Sorry, but his history of behavior throws that particular excuse out the window. Next.


----------



## Elles

Neither, I’m going with this is why Donald Trump says and thinks what he does. The article is pretty much what’s being said, that early enough the drugs may be effective. It also explains about the heart attack stuff.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Do you actually believe he would not do something for fear of being criticized or because he didn't want to upset someone? Sorry, but his history of behavior throws that particular excuse out the window. Next.


I don't know. His advisors probably want him voted back in and advised him not to go, whether he wanted to or not. No actually, if he wanted to go, he probably would. If he didn't care either way, he'd take the advice.

Don't get me wrong, Donald Trump is everything I despise about wealthy powerful men, he makes me sick. I just think lying and exaggerating and making it all about Trump is a mistake. I'd vote republican, because I despise the attitudes and what I've seen of the democrats and their policies even more.

I think America is in the same boat we were, with no real solid alternative.


----------



## Trixie1

O2.0 said:


> Is John Lewis being covered at all in the UK news? Just wondering.
> 
> He died July 17, spend two days lying in state at the US Capitol in Washington DC, and his funeral is today in Atlanta Georgia.
> He was an incredible man, one of the original Freedom Riders, marched alongside Dr. Martin Luther King, and went on to have a 30 year career as a congressman, became known as the 'conscience of congress'. Really an amazing life that has traversed all the layers of unpeeling of racism in the country as we try to figure it all out.
> 
> Donald Trump did not go to the Capitol to pay respects to John Lewis.
> Nor is he attending John Lewis' funeral today.
> That says so much about the kind of person he is. Petty. Childish. Can't separate policy differences from personal ones.
> 
> I remember when John McCain and Barack Obama were campaigning against each other. McCain held a town hall and one woman got up and said Obama was a terrorist or some such. McCain stopped her mid sentence and corrected her that Obama was a good man, with good intentions, that they both want what's best for this country, they just differ on how to get there.
> Trump did not attend John McCain's funeral, granted, he was not invited either.
> 
> All the politicians on both sides of the isle making a point to pay respects to a great man and Trump can't be bothered. He has not one single redeeming quality. Not one.
> 
> Oh, and if you're interested, short read but powerful. John Lewis' essay he wrote on his death bed.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/john-lewis-civil-rights-america.html


I'm watching the funeral service on CNN now, what an incredible man he was and what a great loss to America and indeed the world! Really doesn't surprise me that Trump is not there. To be honest I'm not sure that his family and friends would want him there. The world has lost a man who dared to dream the same dream that Martin Luther King dreamt and we still continue to fight for to this very day! An incredibly inspirational man and truly amazing individual. He will be sadly missed.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> I just think lying and exaggerating and making it all about Trump is a mistake.


This thread is titled "Heard the latest from Donald Trump" so yes, I'm making my posts about him. 
I have not lied, nor exaggerated I don't think. If you know otherwise, happy to be corrected.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> This thread is titled "Heard the latest from Donald Trump" so yes, I'm making my posts about him.
> I have not lied, nor exaggerated I don't think. If you know otherwise, happy to be corrected.


I too am talking about the media. 

Truth is, some medical professionals, including respected ones, though also some nutcases, say that particular medicines could be helpful, particularly before covid has taken hold. Trump says it and he's an idiot, people lie about it in the Lancet and then when Trump says he thinks it's because he mentioned it, he's accused of being egotistical and deluded and we're told he's telling people to drink bleach. 

Extensive research into preventative care involving drugs was even stopped, quite possibly because Donald Trump mentioned said drugs. It's bloody ridiculous from what I can see. When did social media experts get so expert about medicine, they can decide?

DT jr is now off social media. If they ban the President of the United States of America from any media that's a very slippery slope imo. I hear many media outlets stopped covering his daily address to the people.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you? :Nurse

Do I think he should have said it? No, I don't. I've already shared why I think he did.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> DT jr is now off social media. If they ban the President of the United States of America from any media that's a very slippery slope imo. I hear many media outlets stopped covering his daily address to the people.


Trump Junior got a 24 hour freeze or whatever on twitter. Nothing on FB or tick tock or other sites. I haven't heard a thing about banning the POTUS from social media either. 
His daily addresses are covered live by all the major new networks, NBC, CBS, CNN, PBS... and my local news station as well.

You must get very different 'news' than I do...


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Trump Junior got a 24 hour freeze or whatever on twitter. Nothing on FB or tick tock or other sites. I haven't heard a thing about banning the POTUS from social media either.
> His daily addresses are covered live by all the major new networks, NBC, CBS, CNN, PBS... and my local news station as well.
> 
> You must get very different 'news' than I do...


No they haven't banned him yet.  This is what the beeb said. The president of the United States shared a video, the video was removed and his son suspended from Twitter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53559938

Isn't that getting close to twitter and other social media outlets censoring the POTUS? And if these people are doctors, should social media censor them? Personally, I have a barefoot, bitless and treeless horse, who has a tet vac once every three years and is wormed according to worm counts and a dog who is titer tested. So not a fan of over medicalising or over vaccinating. Once upon a time what I did was ridiculed and thought neglectful and dangerous, now it's pretty mainstream, so despite that I think conspiracy theories and crazies can be dangerous, I'm not sure all this censorship stuff that's going on atm is a good thing.


----------



## O2.0

I think those who run social media sites have a right to allow and not allow whatever they choose. Same as this site. I posted a video in another thread with multiple warnings and different steps you had to pass through before getting to the content, all full of warnings about the content. It was almost instantly removed. It pissed me off, but hey, it's not my forum, and whoever runs it has the right to allow and delete content at their little heart's desire. I have the right to use or not use social media platforms at my little heart's desire. 

Deleting content from social media is not censorship. We've had this conversation multiple times on here.
You can search the 'net for the 'white coats' joke of a press conference and find it easily. This is not North Korea or Cuba where the government is going to come to your house and make you disappear if you're caught watching that video. It was just certain platforms that chose to take it down. 

Now, I do think sadly that by twitter choosing to take down the video, it does feed in to the conspiracy theory mindset. Because now all those "they're hiding something" people feel all sorts of validated. 

But come on, how hard is it to google a Dr. Stella Immanuel? And when she starts talking about serious gynecological problems like endometriosis being caused by a demon spirit that you slept with in your dreams, is it really that hard to decide to get your information elsewhere? 
Alex Jones has been right about some things, but those things he has been right about were also being talked about by non batshit crazy people. So if you choose to ignore the loonies, you're really not missing out on information, because if the information is valid, it outs. Now, you might miss out on entertainment, but yeah...


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> I think those who run social media sites have a right to allow and not allow whatever they choose. Same as this site. I posted a video in another thread with multiple warnings and different steps you had to pass through before getting to the content, all full of warnings about the content. It was almost instantly removed. It pissed me off, but hey, it's not my forum, and whoever runs it has the right to allow and delete content at their little heart's desire. I have the right to use or not use social media platforms at my little heart's desire.
> 
> Deleting content from social media is not censorship. We've had this conversation multiple times on here.
> You can search the 'net for the 'white coats' joke of a press conference and find it easily. This is not North Korea or Cuba where the government is going to come to your house and make you disappear if you're caught watching that video. It was just certain platforms that chose to take it down.
> 
> Now, I do think sadly that by twitter choosing to take down the video, it does feed in to the conspiracy theory mindset. Because now all those "they're hiding something" people feel all sorts of validated.
> 
> But come on, how hard is it to google a Dr. Stella Immanuel? And when she starts talking about serious gynecological problems like endometriosis being caused by a demon spirit that you slept with in your dreams, is it really that hard to decide to get your information elsewhere?
> Alex Jones has been right about some things, but those things he has been right about were also being talked about by non batshit crazy people. So if you choose to ignore the loonies, you're really not missing out on information, because if the information is valid, it outs. Now, you might miss out on entertainment, but yeah...


Yeah it feeds into the conspiracy.  It's a difficult one about the social media sites and how they should be treated. There are people being given permanent bans for speaking the truth and particular narratives being promoted as I expect you know. Social media is very influential today. I do think YouTube and Facebook are improving, but things like tik tok and twitter are really bad from what little I see of them. I'm horrified at some of the stuff they leave up as acceptable, whilst taking down what should be fine to talk about.


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> No they haven't banned him yet.  This is what the beeb said. The president of the United States shared a video, the video was removed and his son suspended from Twitter.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53559938
> 
> Isn't that getting close to twitter and other social media outlets censoring the POTUS? And if these people are doctors, should social media censor them? Personally, I have a barefoot, bitless and treeless horse, who has a tet vac once every three years and is wormed according to worm counts and a dog who is titer tested. So not a fan of over medicalising or over vaccinating. Once upon a time what I did was ridiculed and thought neglectful and dangerous, now it's pretty mainstream, so despite that I think conspiracy theories and crazies can be dangerous, I'm not sure all this censorship stuff that's going on atm is a good thing.


Donald Trump Jr shared the video. It violated the Twitter ToS, and he got a 24 hour posting ban. Why should he be exempt from the rules, even if his daddy is the president? Chances are if daddy was a regular Joe, not the president, daddy himself would have been banned himself more than once given some of the stuff he's tweeted... 

As to the medical science, we must remember that viruses have NO cure. At all. The best drugs can do is help - in most cases by supporting the body and keeping it alive so the immune system can do it's work, in the case of some rare viruses like HIV that have unique markers that can be targetted without harming the human body, by reducing it to a level the body can cope with (in laymans terms). Therefore outfit touting anything as 'cure', not a supportive treatment, is not being truthful. And until the treatment studies are complete, all we have is the personal opinions of various people, including their biases, and that can be dangerous. Remember the British doctor who faked data and falsely linked autism to vaccines? He's the reason we now have to worry about a resurgence of measles and other preventable diseases.

As to hydroxychloroquine trials, the trials were stopped in all cases because there was no evidence it was helping versus placebos etc. Trump may like to claim it's to spite him, but that's just the self-obsession talking...


----------



## Elles

What about the drug prices thing? I was reading about it and it confused the heck out of me. Have you got cheaper drugs over there or not? Is what DT has done legal and/or sustainable?



Jesthar said:


> As to hydroxychloroquine as a preventative, the trials were stopped in all cases because there was no evidence it was helping versus placebos etc. Trump may like to claim it's to spite him, but that's just the self-obsession talking...


Nah, you're not up to date. The trials have restarted. They stopped because of a fake article in the Lancet. There is a possibility that DT is right. There are links/videos in the thread.


----------



## O2.0

Jesthar said:


> Remember the British doctor who faked data and falsely linked autism to vaccines? He's the reason we now have to worry about a resurgence of measles and other preventable diseases.


Oh wow that's an excellent point! 
And the antivaxxers are out in force again now 'cause Bill Gates is injecting chips in to everyone with the vaccine for covid-19 dontcha know


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> What about the drug prices thing? I was reading about it and it confused the heck out of me. Have you got cheaper drugs over there or not? Is what DT has done legal and/or sustainable?


Drug prices in the USA are usually more expensive than elsewhere in the world. It's one reason they want the NHS on the table during trade negotiations - they regard the HNS as ripping off US drug companies by using identical generic drugs rather than their more expensive branded versions.



Elles said:


> Nah, you're not up to date. The trials have restarted. They stopped because of a fake article in the Lancet. There is a possibility that DT is right. There are links/videos in the thread.


Hard to keep up with anything these days! Still doubt they'll find anything, though - none of the initial findings were positive. Of course, if they don't agree with DT, they'll be 'fake science' 

Incindentally, I wonder what happened to his big idea to use UV treatment inside the body?


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Oh wow that's an excellent point!
> And the antivaxxers are out in force again now 'cause Bill Gates is injecting chips in to everyone with the vaccine for covid-19 dontcha know


We're going to have to have ID cards as digital health records and we'll only be allowed to travel, or vote if we have one and can prove we've had the compulsory shots. Bill Gates' injectable chips are so passé now.

Regarding drug prices, if you can make head or tail out of what just happened:

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-07-27/trump-prescription-drugs-daca-ruling

Regarding drug trials:

Some of the initial findings were positive, though trials were too small, hence:

https://www.tropmedres.ac/covid-19/copcov/copcov-key-messages

Don't tell the conspiracists that Bill Gates' money may have been put towards this further research though.


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> Regarding drug prices, if you can make head or tail out of what just happened:
> 
> https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-07-27/trump-prescription-drugs-daca-ruling


It's an election year, and he's not only behind in the running but also running out of people to blame...  The US is one of the few wealthy countries where most people have to pay for drugs they need simply to live (like insulin), and also has a nasty case of medical bills being the leading cause of bankrupcy. Some executive orders which appear to be aimed at changing even a small part of that might get him some much needed votes, and if they turn out to be legally dodgy and overturnable at a later date then his Big Pharma buddies aren't going to be too annoyed either...


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> Regarding drug prices, if you can make head or tail out of what just happened:


No actually I can't make heads or tails out of that article, it's an opinion piece and I really don't know enough about the insurance/pharmaceutical connection to understand what he's trying to do. If he does want to lower the cost of pharmaceuticals, great. Color me cynical, but somehow I think there is more to it than that.

I do know about DACA though. I know many of these kids personally. 
Basically in the US there are hundreds of thousands of children who have been brought to this country illegally, without their knowledge, or understanding. They came with their parents as infants or very young children, grew up as Americans, speaking English, often not even knowing they were illegal immigrants until they needed to get a driver's licence or go to university. 
The way our immigration laws are set up, there is no way for these children to obtain legal residency let alone citizenship. 
What DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) does is essentially create a pathway to citizenship for those who choose higher education and/or military service. It's not easy to get in to the program and the process alone, which has to be repeated every 2 years, cost $495. It's not a 'free lunch' type deal, these kids jump through a lot of hoops and cough up serious cash to stay in the program.

This is the program that Trump wants to get rid of, and did, in an executive order. However, the supreme court overruled him just last month and the DACA program is safe, for now. 
This is one of the few things in government that is nothing but 100% good. It doesn't hurt a soul, it helps these children who are at odds with immigration law through zero fault of their own, they work hard to get in the program and stay in the program and it makes sure that we are only giving legal residency and eventually citizenship to those who have shown themselves to be upstanding citizens. No rapist or drug dealers here  
This is what Trump wants to get rid of. For no reason that I can tell other than sheer spite and meanness.

What it has to do with our massively screwed up system of health insurance and cost of prescriptions, I have no idea.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> No actually I can't make heads or tails out of that article, it's an opinion piece and I really don't know enough about the insurance/pharmaceutical connection to understand what he's trying to do. If he does want to lower the cost of pharmaceuticals, great. Color me cynical, but somehow I think there is more to it than that.
> 
> I do know about DACA though. I know many of these kids personally.
> Basically in the US there are hundreds of thousands of children who have been brought to this country illegally, without their knowledge, or understanding. They came with their parents as infants or very young children, grew up as Americans, speaking English, often not even knowing they were illegal immigrants until they needed to get a driver's licence or go to university.
> The way our immigration laws are set up, there is no way for these children to obtain legal residency let alone citizenship.
> What DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) does is essentially create a pathway to citizenship for those who choose higher education and/or military service. It's not easy to get in to the program and the process alone, which has to be repeated every 2 years, cost $495. It's not a 'free lunch' type deal, these kids jump through a lot of hoops and cough up serious cash to stay in the program.
> 
> This is the program that Trump wants to get rid of, and did, in an executive order. However, the supreme court overruled him just last month and the DACA program is safe, for now.
> This is one of the few things in government that is nothing but 100% good. It doesn't hurt a soul, it helps these children who are at odds with immigration law through zero fault of their own, they work hard to get in the program and stay in the program and it makes sure that we are only giving legal residency and eventually citizenship to those who have shown themselves to be upstanding citizens. No rapist or drug dealers here
> This is what Trump wants to get rid of. For no reason that I can tell other than sheer spite and meanness.
> 
> What it has to do with our massively screwed up system of health insurance and cost of prescriptions, I have no idea.


Ah in that case I think he's saying that he's signed orders that lower the price of prescriptions and because he couldn't get rid of DACA no one will be able to overturn this decision either.

I wonder if cheaper prescriptions is his healthcare that's better than Obamacare.


----------



## Calvine

Just read today that DT is hoping to postpone the upcoming presidential election:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53597975


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> Just read today that DT is hoping to postpone the upcoming presidential election:
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53597975


That's yesterday's news darlin

The simple short answer is DT can't alter the date of the election, only congress as I understand it, can do that. The date has never been altered even during the Civil War or because of WW2. I doubt whether Donny is so stupid that he doesn't realise he doesn't have the power to alter the date. He's doing it so that he can scream "foul" when the result isn't what he wants it to be He's so pathetic:Arghh

The question was raised earlier this year when this article in The Atlantic was published.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...e-2020-election-here-s-what-constitution-says

*Can Trump Delay the 2020 Election? Here's What the Constitution Says*
If the president's lawyers gin up an argument that he can, we will be witness to authoritarianism in its defining form.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> That's yesterday's news darlin
> 
> The simple short answer is DT can't alter the date of the election, only congress as I understand it, can do that. The date has never been altered even during the Civil War or because of WW2. I doubt whether Donny is so stupid that he doesn't realise he doesn't have the power to alter the date. He's doing it so that he can scream "foul" when the result isn't what he wants it to be He's so pathetic:Arghh
> 
> The question was raised earlier this year when this article in The Atlantic was published.
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...e-2020-election-here-s-what-constitution-says
> 
> *Can Trump Delay the 2020 Election? Here's What the Constitution Says*
> If the president's lawyers gin up an argument that he can, we will be witness to authoritarianism in its defining form.


Sorry . . . hadn't seen it previously posted.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I still don't understand how anyone could have voted for him in the first place and I dread the thought that people will be daft enough to vote for him again.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still don't understand how anyone could have voted for him in the first place and I dread the thought that people will be daft enough to vote for him again.


I imagine many people said the same thing about Hitler


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still don't understand how anyone could have voted for him in the first place and I dread the thought that people will be daft enough to vote for him again.


 It was Donald or Hillary. Like we had Bojo or Corbyn. I guess at the time DT seemed like the lesser of two evils (the Devil or the deep blue sea)? Who knows? People scoffed at the idea he would get in last time - like they ridiculed Farage for even daring to think UK would vote out - I remember him saying: ''You're not laughing at me now, are you?''. It will be very interesting to see though. Think I might be vaguely interested in it this time.


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> I imagine many people said the same thing about Hitler


Seriously? 

Et tu, Brute.


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Et tu, Brute.


?

Seriously what?


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> ?
> 
> Seriously what?


Hitler... :Bag


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> Hitler... :Bag


My post was in answer to @happy Paws 2 quote which says ........



Happy Paws2 said:


> I still don't understand how anyone could have voted for him in the first place and I dread the thought that people will be daft enough to vote for him again.


I replied to the effect that I was sure there were people in Germany who couldn't understand how anyone could have voted for and supported Hitler, some even right up to the end .

Sorry to disappoint you if you thought I was implying something deep and sinister ............. I wasn't!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> My post was in answer to @happy Paws 2 quote which says ........
> 
> I replied to the effect that I was sure there were people in Germany who couldn't understand how anyone could have voted for and supported Hitler, some even right up to the end .
> 
> *Sorry to disappoint you if you thought I was implying something deep and sinister ............. I wasn't*!


I didn't think that, but he is a worry isn't he.


----------



## O2.0

And Trump is now saying he will ban the popular social media platform Tik Tok. 
Interesting. 
He doesn't like being 'censored' on social media, but he's going to ban an entire platform? 
If he manages that he might just piss off enough young voters to get them to the polls.


----------



## Magyarmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> I didn't think that, but he is a worry isn't he.


I know you didn't and I wasn't referring to you in my reply. 

I agree with you he is a worry and I hate to think what he'll do if he;s elected for a second term!


----------



## 3dogs2cats

Magyarmum said:


> I know you didn't and I wasn't referring to you in my reply.
> 
> I agree with you he is a worry and I hate to think what he'll do if he;s elected for a second term!


The first think the bloody idiot will do is boast how the election was the fairest ever in history of the USA, no other election has ever been as fair is this one, never, ever, period!


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> And Trump is now saying he will ban the popular social media platform Tik Tok.
> Interesting.
> He doesn't like being 'censored' on social media, but he's going to ban an entire platform?
> If he manages that he might just piss off enough young voters to get them to the polls.


I think it's because it's Chinese owned and Trump amongst others believes it's being used to spy on the US

Just heard on CNN that Microsoft are negotiating to buy TikTok and might seal the deal by Sunday.

If not and the platform is closed, as you say, it will piss off lots of young voters and I personally will miss Kellyanne Conway's daughter's comments about her mother's role as one of Trump's advisors.


----------



## Elles

Magyarmum said:


> My post was in answer to @happy Paws 2 quote which says ........
> 
> I replied to the effect that I was sure there were people in Germany who couldn't understand how anyone could have voted for and supported Hitler, some even right up to the end .
> 
> Sorry to disappoint you if you thought I was implying something deep and sinister ............. I wasn't!


I thought it implied that voting for Trump is as bad as voting for Hitler.  I'd vote for Trump if I lived in America. I don't think he's anything like as bad as Hitler, I would think that's the other side if anything and I don't think that either.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> I'd vote for Trump if I lived in America.


Geebus!! Thank gawd you don't!

Biden is at least human, and if he picks a decent running mate even better.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Geebus!! Thank gawd you don't!
> 
> Biden is at least human, and if he picks a decent running mate even better.


I'm more towards a free market capitalist, than a socialist, so ofc I wouldn't vote for Biden.  I would have voted for Obama, although I was disappointed with a few things he said and did, I still think he was an excellent president of good standing, with much about him to be admired. I'm not into the current social justice narratives. I think they're divisive and hateful. I've not taken a huge amount of notice of American politics, but I know I'm a republican, not a democrat now.


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> I thought it implied that voting for Trump is as bad as voting for Hitler.  I'd vote for Trump if I lived in America. I don't think he's anything like as bad as Hitler, I would think that's the other side if anything and I don't think that either.


More that Hitler was not deemed electable - until all of a sudden he was. (Incidentally, he and the Nazis also came in second in the popular vote tally...)

Before the depression and the 1932 election, no-one thought the Nazis would ever be a serious contender in German politics - they didn't even have any detailed policies, just crowd pleasing sweeping statements. Other politicians, intellectuals, analysts etc. didn't believe any sensible German would be tempted to vote for something like that, especially considering the Nazis well documented and publicised racial views and incitements to violent disorder, and didn't really view them as a threat. But they didn't bank on the power of repetition and the formidable, darkly mesmerising charisma of Hitler himself delivering them on a whirlwind mass-rally tour of the country using the brand new transportation capabilities of the aeroplane.

FIrst real triumph of soundbites over substance in the modern political era, one might say.


----------



## Elles

Jesthar said:


> More that Hitler was not deemed electable - until all of a sudden he was. (Incidentally, he and the Nazis also came in second in the popular vote tally...)
> 
> Before the depression and the 1932 election, no-one thought the Nazis would ever be a serious contender in German politics - they didn't even have any detailed policies, just crowd pleasing sweeping statements. Other politicians, intellectuals, analysts etc. didn't believe any sensible German would be tempted to vote for something like that, especially considering the Nazis well documented and publicised racial views and incitements to violent disorder, and didn't really view them as a threat. But they didn't bank on the power of repetition and the formidable, darkly mesmerising charisma of Hitler himself delivering them on a whirlwind mass-rally tour of the country using the brand new transportation capabilities of the aeroplane.
> 
> FIrst real triumph of soundbites over substance in the modern political era, one might say.


Probably. I'd be voting republican despite Trump I expect though, not because of. "Make America great again"? When was it? :Hilarious From what I'm seeing, tbh I think many republicans groan every time Trump speaks and would prefer a different leader. Sign of our times.


----------



## O2.0

Trump isn't really a Republican though, and besides if you lean republican, vote for your local and state representatives to be republican, and you can still get your views across. Voting for Trump has now more than ever become a nod to white supremacy, racial divisiveness, and making us the laughing stock of the world.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Trump isn't really a Republican though, and besides if you lean republican, vote for your local and state representatives to be republican, and you can still get your views across. Voting for Trump has now more than ever become a nod to white supremacy, racial divisiveness, and making us the laughing stock of the world.


I don't think Biden will improve America's reputation. Don't you have any decent new blood in your politics?


----------



## cheekyscrip

O2.0 said:


> Trump isn't really a Republican though, and besides if you lean republican, vote for your local and state representatives to be republican, and you can still get your views across. Voting for Trump has now more than ever become a nod to white supremacy, racial divisiveness, and making us the laughing stock of the world.


If Trump stays for four more years USA might not recover... fall of the empire yet again...


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> I don't think Biden will improve America's reputation. Don't you have any decent new blood in your politics?


As I said in my post, it's not just the US's reputation I'm worried about. It's also that Trump is so blatantly signaling to the white supremacist faction of our country. That alone should terrify any half-way decent human being in our country (and abroad).

And yes, we do have new blood. Hopefully Biden will pick one for his running mate.

She's not quite ready yet, but Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is already a phenom, takes no corporate money at all, and I for one can't wait to see her take off in politics.
Andrew Yang is intriguing me a lot too.


----------



## Calvine

Magyarmum said:


> I imagine many people said the same thing about Hitler


 Well yes, he had quite a following in his heyday.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## MollySmith

Truly rather scary, his latest interview- well over in the UK....
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/04/donald-trump-tv-interview-john-crace-sketch


----------



## Magyarmum

This is the interview with Trump by Jonathan Swan. It's well worth watching even though it's 37 minutes long.

Probably shouldn't but I had a good giggle!





[/QUOTE]


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


> This is the interview with Trump by Jonathan Swan. It's well worth watching even though it's 37 minutes long.
> 
> Probably shouldn't but I had a good giggle!


I swear that that, that - well, I was going to say 'man', but I can't bring myself to - _entity_ is going for some kind of record for how many times someone can contradict, deny the obvious, or outright lie in one four year period...


----------



## Sandysmum

Well that was , interesting?. 

Does the orange one ever shut up, he just kept on going and going regardless of what the interviewer was trying to ask. He's just so full of himself it's got ridiculous now. 

Oh, and will someone PLEASE teach who ever does his make up how to do blending, it's so off putting. Every time I see him sideways on, all I can think about is his pale bits. A bit like when Corbyn had his glasses on at a slant, no one can remember what he said, everyone just remembers the ****** glasses.


----------



## Magyarmum

https://thehill.com/policy/technolo...campaign-until-it-deletes-tweet-with-covid-19

*Twitter bans Trump campaign until it deletes tweet with COVID-19 misinformation*

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-n...3zmjj7vSTY8T_921U25K6i6I919v1qFbBk28F_yCB3eTg

*Facebook removes Trump post over coronavirus misinformation*


----------



## Magyarmum

Enjoy!


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


>


I look like that after a bad night! 
I used to take this along with two other drugs for RA. Didnt do much good.!


----------



## Elles

Trump has Banned TikTok and Wechat.


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> Trump has Banned TikTok and Wechat.


If it's not sold within 45 days!

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/06/politics/trump-executive-order-tiktok/index.html

*Trump issues orders banning TikTok and WeChat from operating in 45 days if they are not sold by Chinese parent companies*


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> Trump has Banned TikTok and Wechat.


Awww, diddums is still sore about TikTok users tanking his Tulsa rally...


----------



## Elles

Or you could get paranoid.


----------



## Elles

To summarise. 

-They have access to all your information, including friends lists, family, phone contacts, passwords, facial recognition. If they want to they could use the information to close down banking and government systems, or, even worse, send every private email or message you ever wrote, to everyone in your contact or friends lists and cause anarchy as people find out what they really think of each other. Even if you haven’t signed up, they can link your picture that might be on a friend or families page and work from there. If China wants to, through apps like tiktok they can destroy civilisation as we know it, via a Third World War conducted on the Information highway. :Nailbiting -

otoh a viral picture of Kim Kardashian brought down the Internet, so I wouldn’t get your hopes up just yet. :Linkme


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> Or you could get paranoid.


Well, that was... bizarre...



Elles said:


> To summarise.
> 
> -They have access to all your information, including friends lists, family, phone contacts, passwords, facial recognition. If they want to they could use the information to close down banking and government systems, or, even worse, send every private email or message you ever wrote, to everyone in your contact or friends lists and cause anarchy as people find out what they really think of each other. Even if you haven't signed up, they can link your picture that might be on a friend or families page and work from there. If China wants to, through apps like tiktok they can destroy civilisation as we know it, via a Third World War conducted on the Information highway. :Nailbiting -
> 
> otoh a viral picture of Kim Kardashian brought down the Internet, so I wouldn't get your hopes up just yet. :Linkme


Never touched TikTok, so I'm safe 

Interestingly, they ragged on FB a lot (which is fair enough as most people don't limit the permissions with FB - being a geek, I do ; ), but never mentioned Twitter, Google, Microsoft, Apple or Amazon. All of which are US companies, and know a heck of a lot as well, certainly more than TikTok given that Google, MS and Apple run most of the worlds operating systems...


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Magyarmum

Joe Biden has chosen Kamala Harris as his running mate.

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/2020-election-biden-vp-pick/index.html

*Kamala Harris is Joe Biden's running mate*


----------



## Jobeth

I'm surprised no one checks his speeches before he gives them. I follow Randy Rainbow and some of his 'fake news interviews' are brilliant.


----------



## Magyarmum

Jobeth said:


> View attachment 446801
> 
> I'm surprised no one checks his speeches before he gives them. I follow Randy Rainbow and some of his 'fake news interviews' are brilliant.


I love Randy Rainbow!

You can always tell when the orange man is reading from a prepared speech by the toneless stilted way he speaks. The trouble is he often goes off script and comes out with stupid statements like the one above


----------



## O2.0

I'm very happy with Biden's VP pick in Kamala Harris. She's no nonsense highly capable. Now to see if this country is capable of electing a woman - of color no less!


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> I'm very happy with Biden's VP pick in Kamala Harris. She's no nonsense highly capable. Now to see if this country is capable of electing a woman - of color no less!


Joe Biden's 77 if I remember rightly, so if he is elected, there is always a possibility he could die in office, meaning that Kamala Harris would be not only the first woman president but also the first woman of colour to ho;d that post!


----------



## O2.0

Magyarmum said:


> Joe Biden's 77 if I remember rightly, so if he is elected, there is always a possibility he could die in office, meaning that Kamala Harris would be not only the first woman president but also the first woman of colour to ho;d that post!


Or she could just run on her own when his term is out  A la Regan Bush way.


----------



## Happy Paws2

You could make it up could you!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53761744


----------



## kimthecat

Magyarmum said:


> Joe Biden's 77 if I remember rightly, so if he is elected, there is always a possibility he could die in office, meaning that Kamala Harris would be not only the first woman president but also the first woman of colour to ho;d that post!


i hope he doesnt die , perhaps retire and it would be good to a first woman president and POC. Shame Michelle O didn't run .


----------



## O2.0

kimthecat said:


> Shame Michelle O didn't run .


I love her, but she's not a politician, not interested in politics, and Barack had to do some serious talking to get her to agree to run for senate, let alone president. She never wanted him to go in to politics LOL!

Kamala Harris is a fabulous pick. More centrist, tough when she needs to be, capable, knows how to play the game, very electable. And that's what we need.


----------



## Sandysmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> You could make it up could you!
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53761744


I actually checked on a few sites including Snopes to see if this was true, and it is. What kind of self obsessed, egocentric, maniac could think of how to improve the way shower heads work, so that he can have perfect (his word not mine!) hair during the middle of a global pandemic. The country he is supposed to be leading actually leads the world in deaths from covid, doesn't he care, is his hair more important that peoples lives? This has got me so angry that if I put what I really wanted to put,in the way it's sounding in my head. I'd get thrown off the forum.


----------



## Happy Paws2

jetsmum said:


> I actually checked on a few sites including Snopes to see if this was true, and it is. What kind of self obsessed, egocentric, maniac could think of how to improve the way shower heads work, so that he can have perfect (his word not mine!) hair during the middle of a global pandemic. The country he is supposed to be leading actually leads the world in deaths from covid, doesn't he care, is his hair more important that peoples lives? This has got me so angry that* if I put what I really wanted to put,in the way it's sounding in my head. I'd get thrown off the forum.*


and me.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> I'm very happy with Biden's VP pick in Kamala Harris. She's no nonsense highly capable. Now to see if this country is capable of electing a woman - of color no less!


They're struggling to make her look bad.


----------



## kimthecat

Elles said:


> They're struggling to make her look bad.


 they are trying to do what they did to Obama., saying she is a false birther. Her dad is Black and her mum Indian and she was born in Oakland.


----------



## Happy Paws2

kimthecat said:


> they are trying to do what they did to Obama., saying she is a false birther. Her dad is Black and her mum Indian and she was born in Oakland.


and of cause the Orange Man isn't racist is he.


----------



## O2.0

kimthecat said:


> they are trying to do what they did to Obama., saying she is a false birther. Her dad is Black and her mum Indian and she was born in Oakland.


Oh the memes have already started - she's not black because her father is Jamaican, not African. You know, 'cause there aren't any black people in Jamaica 
You seriously could not make this stuff up.


----------



## Magyarmum

Love this one when he's asked about his lying!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294033254174150658


----------



## O2.0

Here's one of the memes I've seen. What's particularly sick about this is that Kamala Harris was one of several kids bused across the city in an effort to integrate schools. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/30/us/politics/kamala-harris-berkeley-busing.html


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Here's one of the memes I've seen. What's particularly sick about this is that Kamala Harris was one of several kids bused across the city in an effort to integrate schools. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/30/us/politics/kamala-harris-berkeley-busing.html


Who cares about her ancestry? Racist idiots.


----------



## kimthecat

I wonder how she classes herself? I would think her Indian ancestry is as important to her as her Jamaican ancestry. I think it would be important to Asians born in the USA too.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> Who cares about her ancestry? Racist idiots.


Honestly I don't think anyone particularly cares about her ancestry, but I think her opponents would very much like to 'disqualify' her as a woman of color in case it garners any additional points from the identity politics perspective.

Personally I find her ancestry interesting, being the child of immigrants who were active in the civil rights movement. But who she is as a person is far more important to me, and as a person I'm very happy to back her.


----------



## Magyarmum

kimthecat said:


> I wonder how she classes herself? I would think her Indian ancestry is as important to her as her Jamaican ancestry. I think it would be important to Asians born in the USA too.


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/12/asia/kamala-harris-mother-india-intl-hnk/index.html

*How Kamala Harris' Indian relatives helped shape her views on civil rights and civic duty*


----------



## Jesthar

Magyarmum said:


> Love this one when he's asked about his lying!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294033254174150658


Remember those 'Lie Clocks in heaven' jokes? God wouldn't be using Trumps as a ceiling fan, he'd have given it to the archangels to use in the wind tunnel...


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Honestly I don't think anyone particularly cares about her ancestry, but I think her opponents would very much like to 'disqualify' her as a woman of color in case it garners any additional points from the identity politics perspective.
> 
> Personally I find her ancestry interesting, being the child of immigrants who were active in the civil rights movement. But who she is as a person is far more important to me, and as a person I'm very happy to back her.


I meant in that way. Omg she's not African American, people lied (made a mistake) so she doesn't count. Who cares about ancestry in a negative way. Her parents could be Fred and Rose West, it wouldn't make her a serial killer. By all means have an interest, but to use it to point score politically is what I meant.

It actually shouldn't make a difference whether you're interested or not, as you say.


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> I meant in that way. Omg *she's not African American,* people lied (made a mistake) so she doesn't count. Who cares about ancestry in a negative way. Her parents could be Fred and Rose West, it wouldn't make her a serial killer. By all means have an interest, but to use it to point score politically is what I meant.
> 
> It actually shouldn't make a difference whether you're interested or not, as you say.


Strangely, the majority of the population of Jamaica is descended from Africans. Something to do with sugar plantations and slavery...

Current breakdown is Jamaicans of African descent represent 76.3% of the population, followed by 15.1% Afro-European, 3.4% East Indian and Afro-East Indian, 3.2% Caucasian, 1.2% Chinese and 0.8% other. So that's 90%+ with some direct form of African heritage.


----------



## picaresque

Interrupting the serious discussion for a second


----------



## O2.0

picaresque said:


> Interrupting the serious discussion for a second


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
"Don't talk about the lizard people"


----------



## Lurcherlad

Elles said:


> I meant in that way. Omg she's not African American, people lied (made a mistake) so she doesn't count. Who cares about ancestry in a negative way. Her parents could be Fred and Rose West, it wouldn't make her a serial killer. By all means have an interest, but to use it to point score politically is what I meant.
> 
> It actually shouldn't make a difference whether you're interested or not, as you say.


I agree.

If one faction use being a POC/WOC as a selling point another faction will strive to discredit it.

I prefer the idea that a good, honest PERSON represents the PEOPLE.


----------



## Magyarmum

Siskin said:


> Thank you for this, very interesting to read especially about how younger children's immune systems handle the virus.
> 
> I've been wondering this every since they said people would have to self quarantine right back at the begining.


In Hungary you're given a notice that has to be displayed on the front gate/door of your house saying that no one must enter. The police will also call round every or every other day to check whether you're complying with the order. You're notified by email or by the police in person when the 14 days are up and you're free to go out into the world again!


----------



## Elles

Lurcherlad said:


> I agree.
> 
> If one faction use being a POC/WOC as a selling point another faction will strive to discredit it.
> 
> I prefer the idea that a good, honest PERSON represents the PEOPLE.


She supports the Nordic model. Sounds better every day.


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## Magyarmum

Another of Donny boy's shady friends hits the dust!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...nnon-arrested-charged-fraud-we-build-the-wall

*Steve Bannon arrested and charged with fraud over border wall campaign*


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Cully

Nothing to worry about then has he?:Smug


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Elles

I don’t think Trump can be blamed for coronavirus, riots, or century past slavery. If anything, someone who has been in office for 50+ years might want to shoulder some of the blame for recent and past events. What concerns me though, is all the digs at Trump and his supporters got him elected last time. Aren’t people supposed to learn from their mistakes? What I see of the democrats, brings to mind Jeremy and his friends. Worked out well for them.

I think we’ll find a lot of Americans voting against Biden and socialism, rather than for Trump, the same as happened here with Boris. The result is the same, a win for Trump. I think the middle class, privileged activists are putting people off. It would me if I were an American voter.

btw the red and blue list, could just as easily be seen as the democrats getting away with it, while the republicans are investigated and held to account could it not.  Conspiracy theorists would love it.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Calvine

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/donald-trump-nominated-nobel-peace-22652959

Interesting!


----------



## Elles

Calvine said:


> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/donald-trump-nominated-nobel-peace-22652959
> 
> Interesting!


It's interesting that only democrats have won it. Donald Trump could negotiate peace between mankind and invading aliens, he still wouldn't get a peace prize. :Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rus-covid-rage-bob-woodward-book-b421111.html

*Trump concealed real dangers of coronavirus while playing it down publicly, Bob Woodward claims in new book*


----------



## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/donald-trump-nominated-nobel-peace-22652959
> 
> Interesting!


The only thing he should be nominated for is 
The Darwin Award
It's the only award he's definitely ever going to win, unless they decide he's over qualified for it


----------



## Elles

Is Darwin still in favour? Surely evolution is considered phobic, racist, or a product of colonialism by now?


----------



## Siskin

IF ONLY: 
Bill Clinton, George Bush and Donald Trump were set to face a firing squad in a small central American country. Bill Clinton was the first one placed against the wall and just before the order was given he yelled out "Earthquake". The firing squad fell into a panic and Bill jumped over the wall and escaped during the confusion.

George Bush was the second one placed against the wall. The squad was reassembled and George pondered what he had just witnessed. Again before the order was given George yelled out "Tornado". Again the squad fell apart and George slipped over the wall.

The last person Donald Trump was placed against the wall. He was thinking, I see the pattern here, just scream out something about a disaster and hop over the wall. He confidently refused the blindfold as the firing squad was reassembled. As the rifles were raised in his direction, he grinned from ear to ear and yelled "Fire".


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...vid-19-coronavirus-will-go-away/#5a39660d1dde

*Trump Says With 'A Herd Mentality' Covid-19 Coronavirus Will Go Away*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...vid-19-coronavirus-will-go-away/#5a39660d1dde
> 
> *Trump Says With 'A Herd Mentality' Covid-19 Coronavirus Will Go Away*


----------



## Bisbow

The Mad Hatter is quite sane compared to DT


----------



## Magyarmum

Another pearl of wisdom from the stable genius 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/14/trump-challenged-on-climate-change-during-wildfire-briefing.html

*'I don't think science knows,' Trump responds when challenged on climate change at wildfire briefing*


----------



## Elles

The sad thing is that the lockdown has made no difference. Look how restricted our lives have been, plus we’re all eco fuel, electric cars and recycling these days. No difference at all. Stopping flights, closing factories and staying at home, nothing. If extreme measures like these, do absolutely nothing, what’s the point? If it made a difference, then maybe we could see that people can do something about it, but it’s clear we can’t, or if we can, giving up single use plastic and turning the lights off is pointless. It’s not a case of every little helps, even a lot doesn’t help at all.


----------



## kimthecat

This is a bit OT but with the US election looming....

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bid...arly-voting-kicks-off-phase/story?id=73094853

Biden apparently said 
Like a lot of you, I spent a lot of my life with guys like Donald Trump looking down on me, looking down on the people who make a living with their hands, people who take care of our kids, [who] clean our streets," Biden said Friday afternoon.

He's trying to appeal to the working class but he went to Uni and became a lawyer, Unless he counts holding a pen as working with his hands , i I can't see why he was looked down on.


----------



## Jesthar

kimthecat said:


> Biden apparently said
> Like a lot of you, I spent a lot of my life with guys like Donald Trump looking down on me, looking down on the people who make a living with their hands, people who take care of our kids, [who] clean our streets," Biden said Friday afternoon.
> 
> He's trying to appeal to the working class but he went to Uni and became a lawyer, Unless he counts holding a pen as working with his hands , i I can't see why he was looked down on.


I read that not as Biden saying he works with his hands, but that Trump looks down on people from his background AND people who work with their hands, look after kids, clean the streets etc.

Also, not all people who go to university and become lawyers etc. come from wealthy backgrounds.


----------



## Dave S

I reckon American politics have stooped to a new low after watching some of the debate debacle last night. 
I have seen better behaviour and respect from 5 year old children.
Trump really needs to lose and disappear but I don't rate Biden too much.

What happened last night would probably be similar to the next two "debates", I feel sorry for the American people having to suffer this, same as I feel sorry for them having to suffer Trump and his family anyway. (But then we do have our own Boris).

What has happened to respect even if you have differing views, if there has to be a person in control then at least give him a switch to turn microphones on and off and make the candidates stick to the subject.


----------



## Magyarmum

Dave S said:


> I reckon American politics have stooped to a new low after watching some of the debate debacle last night.
> I have seen better behaviour and respect from 5 year old children.
> Trump really needs to lose and disappear but I don't rate Biden too much.
> 
> What happened last night would probably be similar to the next two "debates", I feel sorry for the American people having to suffer this, same as I feel sorry for them having to suffer Trump and his family anyway. (But then we do have our own Boris).
> 
> What has happened to respect even if you have differing views, if there has to be a person in control then at least give him a switch to turn microphones on and off and make the candidates stick to the subject.


I watched the whole debate and was appalled by Trump's behaviour. What a rude lout of a man and as you say his performance was more like that of a spoilt toddler throwing a tantrum, than an adult male.

Biden's performance was respectful but I felt rather lack lustre. I do think though if he is elected he'll make a sincere, and honest if somewhat uninspiring president, which is in someways what the US needs after the past rollercoaster 4 years.

When asked if he would condemn white supremacists, Trump's reply was that they should "stand back and stand by" which the Proud Boys a right wing extremist group seem to have taken as being given the "go ahead". Very worrying for the forthcoming election!

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/proud-boys-celebrate-after-trump-s-debate-call-out-n1241512

*Proud Boys celebrate after Trump's debate callout*
On their account on the social media app Telegram, the Proud Boys appeared to take the statement as marching orders.

*https://www.ft.com/content/c77fa4ff-3278-4258-9033-8b62adcdbba5*
*
Joe Biden and Donald Trump clash in chaotic presidential debate
*


----------



## Blackadder

I watched it this morning & after 10 mins I had this thought, in a nation of over 330million these are the best two candidates.... god help us!


----------



## Dave S

Just reading news reactions from around the world, don't think any nation is impressed.
Who would want to deal with America if that is the way they present themselves.


----------



## Cully

I was embarrassed watching it, and it's not even my country!!


----------



## mrs phas

Magyarmum said:


> I watched the whole debate and was appalled by Trump's behaviour. What a rude lout of a man and as you say his performance was more like that of a spoilt toddler throwing a tantrum, than an adult male.


Don't forget, this is the man, who got elected, after he espoused that it was ok, for men, to grab women's 'cats' ( to put it politely)
The main problem, and the one that, from what I've read, will probably get him re-elected, is that, outside the southern states, who mainly love Trump and his racist, mysogenistic, pro gun, 'all man' attitude, is that there's a huge outpouring of apathy, and, many, mainly from poorer BAME areas, haven't bothered to even register to vote
They don't view Biden as a credible alternative, and, view his age as being very much against him, plus, they have little hope of overhauling the republicans in the senate or in Congress
This fool of a man is nothing but a charlatan and a snake oil seller, who has no respect for anyone, not even those who died in defence of their country
But
I'll bet you a dime to a dollar, he'll get his next 4 years,
Thank God they have a law in place that prevents him serving longer
Although I wouldn't put it past him to try and overturn that too


----------



## Magyarmum

Breaking News

Donald Trump and his wife have teasted positive for Covis-19. and will spend the next 14 days in quarantine

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

*President Donald Trump tweets he and first lady Melania Trump test positive for Covid-19*


----------



## Dave S

Magyarmum said:


> Breaking News
> 
> Donald Trump and his wife have teasted positive for Covis-19. and will spend the next 14 days in quarantine
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html
> 
> *President Donald Trump tweets he and first lady Melania Trump test positive for Covid-19*


"FAKE NEWS...…."

What a cracking result. Who will be first to inject him with bleach.


----------



## Blackadder

This might sound harsh but I hope he gets really sick! I don't want him (or anyone) to die, just make him realise what millions of Americans have had to go through due to his denial & negligence.

He knew from the beginning just how serious this virus could be yet did virtually nothing to try & protect the people, basically leaving them/individual states to fend for themselves..... all while telling everyone what a great job he's done!

7.5 million infections & 213,000 deaths says it all!!


----------



## Psygon

Blackadder said:


> This might sound harsh but I hope he gets really sick! I don't want him (or anyone) to die, just make him realise what millions of Americans have had to go through due to his denial & negligence.
> 
> He knew from the beginning just how serious this virus could be yet did virtually nothing to try & protect the people, basically leaving them/individual states to fend for themselves..... all while telling everyone what a great job he's done!
> 
> 7.5 million infections & 213,000 says it all!!


I think I read that if he gets very sick the republican party would have to put forward a new candidate. So he would lose the election by default...


----------



## rona

COVID may sort out one of the worlds problems


----------



## Linda Weasel

I wonder if this is ‘fake news’ and his aides have just locked him away as the only way of shutting him up.

Heaven forbid he has Covid because he’ll come out of it telling us all that it’s nothing, and we should all stop taking any precautions and get on as normal.


----------



## Blackadder

Linda Weasel said:


> Heaven forbid he has Covid because he'll come out of it telling us all that it's nothing, and we should all stop taking any precautions and get on as normal.


I've had the same thought. If he's asymptomatic & breezes through just imagine how smug & even more unbearable he will be!


----------



## Magyarmum

Linda Weasel said:


> I wonder if this is 'fake news' and his aides have just locked him away as the only way of shutting him up.
> 
> Heaven forbid he has Covid because he'll come out of it telling us all that it's nothing, and we should all stop taking any precautions and get on as normal.


That possibility also crossed my mind, but on reflection I somehow doubt it, although as you say if he isn't very ill with it, he'll be absolutely unbearable once he's out of quarantine.


----------



## Magyarmum

Psygon said:


> I think I read that if he gets very sick the republican party would have to put forward a new candidate. So he would lose the election by default...


I think that Pence would take over as President just like Johnson did when Kennedy was killed.


----------



## Psygon

Magyarmum said:


> I think that Pence would take over as President just like Johnson did when Kennedy was killed.


He would take over as president, but not sure he could stand in the election?


----------



## Blackadder

Magyarmum said:


> I think that Pence would take over as President just like Johnson did when Kennedy was killed.


Yes he would but if Pence also tests positive & has to isolate/becomes sick do you know who's next inline? Nancy Pelosi, a democrat & someone Trump hates! The irony is off the scale.


----------



## Magyarmum

Psygon said:


> He would take over as president, but not sure he could stand in the election?





Blackadder said:


> Yes he would but if Pence also tests positive & has to isolate/becomes sick do you know who's next inline? Nancy Pelosi, a democrat & someone Trump hates! The irony is off the scale.


As has been said Pence could stand for re-election just as Johnson did. And isn't it ironic that if Pence was incapacitated the post would go to Trump's arch enemy Nancy Pelosi whom Trump hasn't spoken to for the past 6 months!


----------



## Cully

I was just thinking the other day how he had got away with it for so long considering how blase he is.
Seems it's finally caught up with him, and not before time too.
I don't wish him harm and hope they both make a good recovery. But I do hope it shakes some sense into that wacky brain of his.


----------



## Calvine

mrs phas said:


> Don't forget, this is the man, who got elected, after he espoused that it was ok, for men, to grab women's 'cats' ( to put it politely)
> The main problem, and the one that, from what I've read, will probably get him re-elected, is that, outside the southern states, who mainly love Trump and his racist, mysogenistic, pro gun, 'all man' attitude, is that there's a huge outpouring of apathy, and, many, mainly from poorer BAME areas, haven't bothered to even register to vote
> They don't view Biden as a credible alternative, and, view his age as being very much against him, plus, they have little hope of overhauling the republicans in the senate or in Congress
> This fool of a man is nothing but a charlatan and a snake oil seller, who has no respect for anyone, not even those who died in defence of their country
> But
> I'll bet you a dime to a dollar, he'll get his next 4 years,
> Thank God they have a law in place that prevents him serving longer
> Although I wouldn't put it past him to try and overturn that too


Weren't there suggestions of ''inappropriate touching'' with Biden too? Seem to recall an article suggesting something along those lines. Agree with you that I would not be surprised at all if he's back for another four years. I think he got in originally because Hillary was the alternative.


----------



## SbanR

Dave S said:


> "FAKE NEWS...…."
> 
> What a cracking result. Who will be first to inject him with bleach.


----------



## Calvine

Call me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's an election-delaying stunt.


----------



## Blackadder

Calvine said:


> Call me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's an election-delaying stunt.


Not cynical at all, he's capable of just about anything!


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> Call me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's an election-delaying stunt.


Nothing would surprise me with that clown.


----------



## O2.0

Linda Weasel said:


> I wonder if this is 'fake news' and his aides have just locked him away as the only way of shutting him up.


I thought similar. Or as above, an attempt to delay the election - won't happen, or an attempt to nullify it somehow. Say he wasn't able to properly run as a candidate because he was sick?

No matter what, if it's true, or if it's a stunt, it's worrying amon all the other worries we already have as a nation.


----------



## Elles

He hosts and speaks at rallies with hundreds of people who aren’t wearing masks, but you don’t believe he caught Covid?


----------



## mrs phas

Calvine said:


> Call me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's an election-delaying stunt.


It was said on sky news this morning that, if he was too ill to stand, then an alternate would be sworn in as the candidate instead
One way of getting the orange cretin out


----------



## Blackadder

Elles said:


> He hosts and speaks at rallies with hundreds of people who aren't wearing masks, but you don't believe he caught Covid?


I do wonder that myself, makes him out to be a pathological liar who would do anything (anything) to win..... surely not.


----------



## Happy Paws2

I'm fed up of hearing about him the BBC spent 20 mins talking about him tonight.


----------



## mrs phas

This was on my FB earlier re trump having fake illness
I thought it amusing


----------



## Arny

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm fed up of hearing about him the BBC spent 20 mins talking about him tonight.


The statistics around what his chances of dying of it are.
Thought it a bit.. odd.


----------



## O2.0

mrs phas said:


> This was on my FB earlier re trump having fake illness
> I thought it amusing
> 
> View attachment 451004


Okay, I giggled.


----------



## Dave S

Ok so he is off to hospital and being treated with an experimental cocktail of drugs. Possibly bleach and disinfectant. Hopefully administered by large needle in the rear, slowly.
Don't wish him too much harm but it is quite well deserved.


----------



## Elles

Someone said that if it was Biden instead of Trump who had Covid, comments wishing him and his family harm would get people sacked from their jobs and thrown off social media. It’s ok to be as nasty as you like, if you’re of the kinder, well meaning left though.  So true.


----------



## Jesthar

Elles said:


> Someone said that if it was Biden instead of Trump who had Covid, comments wishing him and his family harm would get people sacked from their jobs and thrown off social media. It's ok to be as nasty as you like, if you're of the kinder, well meaning left though.  So true.


I'm pretty sure it would be exactly the same - US politics is so polarised that kind of mudslinging is a two way street.

The only real difference I can imagine is Trump himself would join in with the Biden hate with unparalleled glee...


----------



## Cully

For all his faults he is still a sick man and probably s*** scared. 
I wish him well and hope this experience will bring about a better, more considerate and compassionate Donald.
It's no surprise he's brought this on himself, and possibly others he's been in contact with. But no one deserves it.


----------



## Elles

Jesthar said:


> The only real difference I can imagine is Trump himself would join in with the Biden hate with unparalleled glee...


You actually believe that?

Of course he wouldn't.


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> You actually believe that?
> 
> Of course he wouldn't.


You must be joking either that or you have a very short memory,

This was Trump's reaction when Clinton stumbled at a function due to her having developed pneumonia






By contrast this is Biden's response to Trump's incapacitation! Quite a difference methinks!

https://www.wsls.com/news/politics/...n-attack-ads-after-trumps-covid-19-diagnosis/

*Biden campaign taking down attack ads after Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Magyarmum said:


> You must be joking either that or you have a very short memory,
> 
> This was Trump's reaction when Clinton stumbled at a function due to her having developed pneumonia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast this is Biden's response to Trump's incapacitation! Quite a difference methinks!
> 
> https://www.wsls.com/news/politics/...n-attack-ads-after-trumps-covid-19-diagnosis/
> 
> *Biden campaign taking down attack ads after Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis*


As much as I never wish anyone any harm I can't honestly say I feel sorry for DT, as far as I'm concerned he is a evil man.


----------



## Dave S

Happy Paws2 said:


> As much as I never wish anyone any harm I can't honestly say I feel sorry for DT, as far as I'm concerned he is a evil man.


Lets face it, some people deserve a dose especially after all the lies and denouncements he has spouted about it and yes, he is evil.
I think Biden has the right attitude here, outwardly wishing him and his family well and removing many anti Trump banners etc, he at least seems to have some integrity even if he has a slightly dodgy past.


----------



## SbanR

Doubt if DT will get seriously ill though. He has top medical attention and now received anti-viral treatment.
He'll sail through this then continue to make light of this pandemic.


----------



## Calvine

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm fed up of hearing about him the BBC spent 20 mins talking about him tonight.


 I was hoping as the presidential election got closer, covid might fade into the background, but now it's like a double whammy, the election, the Donald and ''Hong Kong Fluey'' (Trump's name for covid) all rolled into one. You sort of wish there might be an alien invasion, just for a change of headlines; but then you think probably no-one would notice the little green men walking around.


----------



## Calvine

SbanR said:


> He'll sail through this then continue to make light of this pandemic.


That was my thought exactly - if he just gets mild symptoms, he'll say ''Told you so, just a bit of a headcold actually''.


----------



## Magyarmum

SbanR said:


> Doubt if DT will get seriously ill though. He has top medical attention and now received anti-viral treatment.
> He'll sail through this then continue to make light of this pandemic.


But will he?

BJ didn't get an easy ride despite having the best of the NHS in attendance. And he's nearly 20 years younger and much fitter than DT,


----------



## Elles

He knew she was sick and not just stumbled of course? No, she'd been keeping it secret. Once he was told she was ill with pneumonia he said he hopes she gets well very quickly and he's sad that she's ill.

This was Trump's reaction when Clinton stumbled at a function due to her having developed pneumonia






By contrast this is Biden's response to Trump's incapacitation! Quite a difference methinks!

https://www.wsls.com/news/politics/...n-attack-ads-after-trumps-covid-19-diagnosis/

*Biden campaign taking down attack ads after Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis*[/QUOTE]


----------



## Magyarmum

Elles said:


> *He knew she was sick and not just stumbled of course? No, she'd been keeping it secret. Once he was told she was ill with pneumonia he said he hopes she gets well very quickly and he's sad that she's ill. *
> 
> This was Trump's reaction when Clinton stumbled at a function due to her having developed pneumonia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast this is Biden's response to Trump's incapacitation! Quite a difference methinks!
> 
> https://www.wsls.com/news/politics/...n-attack-ads-after-trumps-covid-19-diagnosis/
> 
> *Biden campaign taking down attack ads after Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis*


[/QUOTE]

Any normal person would have expressed concern over why Clinton stumbled, not make a mockery of it, but them DT not normal.


----------



## Elles

Any normal person would have expressed concern over why Clinton stumbled, not make a mockery of it, but them DT not normal.[/QUOTE]

Nope, wanting to be president of the USA isn't at all normal. He'd been saying she wasn't fit enough for office, pretty much in the same way the campaign against Biden is saying the same thing. I expect he thought there was nothing wrong with her and she did a Madonna, so used it to confirm the narrative, which backfired when it turned out she was ill. However, the left narrative implies that he knew she was ill and mocked her for it, which isn't true. The truth is he mocked her for stumbling full stop. I agree that it's not a good thing to do regardless, but it is another lie/exaggeration being used to push the orange man bad narrative.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> Someone said that if it was Biden instead of Trump who had Covid, comments wishing him and his family harm would get people sacked from their jobs and thrown off social media. It's ok to be as nasty as you like, if you're of the kinder, well meaning left though.  So true.


Where are you seeing comments wishing Trump and his family harm? I haven't seen anyone on the Biden/Harris side wishing Trump and his family harm, nothing in the news media either, nothing on social media other than concern. No one is gleeful about this or happy he's sick. Not that I've seen. *shrug*


----------



## Elles

Oh and I think this personality is bigger than party thing, supported by social media is a worrying trend. People should be looking at policies not personalities. The Trump crowd constantly attacking Biden’s mental health is going to backfire too I think. America is going to end up with a government they don’t want either way imo.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> The truth is he mocked her for stumbling full stop. I agree that it's not a good thing to do regardless, but it is another lie/exaggeration being used to push the orange man bad narrative.


As you say, he mocked her for stumbling. He also mocked a disabled reporter. He mocked John McCain for being shot down and captured in Vietnam - a man who very heroically refused to be freed unless his fellow POW were freed with him. 
That's not a 'left wing narrative,' there is no lie or exaggeration. That's the reality. He's a mean spirited, petty man with no empathy or compassion for his fellow human beings. He is a bad man. Surely you see that?


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Where are you seeing comments wishing Trump and his family harm? I haven't seen anyone on the Biden/Harris side wishing Trump and his family harm, nothing in the news media either, nothing on social media other than concern. No one is gleeful about this or happy he's sick. Not that I've seen. *shrug*


You don't have Netflix do you? You should watch the social dilemma if you have. Like me you don't have Twitter, or Instagram or all those things that are hugely influential these days either? I do a search and look at both sides to see what's going on. Petforums tends to lean towards anti trump, but then even a lot of republicans lean towards anti trump. A lot of democrats aren't too happy with Joe Biden either. It's interesting looking at succession if something means certain people have to step down at this stage too. I'm just being nosey, though I do think what happens in America doesn't stay in America..


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> As you say, he mocked her for stumbling. He also mocked a disabled reporter. He mocked John McCain for being shot down and captured in Vietnam - a man who very heroically refused to be freed unless his fellow POW were freed with him.
> That's not a 'left wing narrative,' there is no lie or exaggeration. That's the reality. He's a mean spirited, petty man with no empathy or compassion for his fellow human beings. He is a bad man. Surely you see that?


Yes, so why exaggerate and end up with millions of people being able to say "That's a lie" and be right, when keeping it real is good enough if you're looking at personality, not policy?


----------



## Elles

Can I just say I watched celebrity apprentice USA and I thought Trump was a bit of a caricature of a stereotypical white American male and not all there, though I quite liked his daughter. I was utterly gobsmacked when he became your president.:Bag


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> You don't have Netflix do you? You should watch the social dilemma if you have. Like me you don't have Twitter, or Instagram or all those things that are hugely influential these days either? I do a search and look at both sides to see what's going on. Petforums tends to lean towards anti trump, but then even a lot of republicans lean towards anti trump. A lot of democrats aren't too happy with Joe Biden either. It's interesting looking at succession if something means certain people have to step down at this stage too. I'm just being nosey, though I do think what happens in America doesn't stay in America..


Yes, I've watched the Social Dilemma  It's excellent. 
But I'm still curious where you're seeing comments wishing Trump harm, you didn't answer that. I have not seen them and my life includes a huge variety of people, those adamantly opposed to Trump and adamant supporters of him and plenty in between those two poles. I'm not seeing it so was wondering where you are.



Elles said:


> Yes, so why exaggerate and end up with millions of people being able to say "That's a lie" and be right, when keeping it real is good enough if you're looking at personality, not policy?


Where is the exaggeration in saying he mocked Hillary Clinton for stumbling? Mocked the NYT reporter with a congenital condition? Where is the lie? He did.
Pointing out someone's actual behavior is not a narrative or an exaggeration. I don't understand if you're trying to defend his behavior or make some obscure point. 
Yes, of course some things about Trump are over exaggerated and over emphasized to make him look bad, but this is not one of them. Pretending he's not the arsehole he is doesn't help either though.


----------



## Elles

Did you read the thread, it says he mocked Hilary Clinton for stumbling when she had pneumonia. 

He mocked her for stumbling. It later came to light that she had pneumonia and he wished her a quick recovery and said he was sad to hear it. A totally different narrative from the he mocked her for being sick. Can’t you see it? 

Twitter, Facebook, YouTube etc are saying they are struggling to keep up with all the conspiracy theories and the wishing harm, death, or suffering to Trump, Melania and the rest of the family. Even some celebs and a couple of democrats have posted grinning videos and pictures hoping he really suffers. It’s hypocritical.

The point I’m making is that Trump is lied about so much, it’s hard to find the truth and no, he’s not as bad as the supposedly kind left make out. I’ve read democrat policy and you won’t agree with me, but lord help you when Biden gets in, if they do everything they say they will. If they do it’ll be a first though.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> He mocked her for stumbling. It later came to light that she had pneumonia and he wished her a quick recovery and said he was sad to hear it. A totally different narrative from the he mocked her for being sick. Can't you see it?


Am I understanding correctly that you're saying he mocked her for stumbling not knowing she also had pneumonia. And that's okay. If he had known she had pneumonia and mocked her for stumbling that would not be okay? 
But you're not disputing he mocked her correct?

Is mocking an opponent in any context appropriate for a world leader?



Elles said:


> Twitter, Facebook, YouTube etc are saying they are struggling to keep up with all the conspiracy theories and the wishing harm, death, or suffering to Trump, Melania and the rest of the family. Even some celebs and a couple of democrats have posted grinning videos and pictures hoping he really suffers. It's hypocritical.


This is a very vague statement. Which celebs? Which democrats? What conspiracy theories? Where are the statements by youtube, twitter and FB? Do you have any links?



Elles said:


> The point I'm making is that Trump is lied about so much, it's hard to find the truth and no, he's not as bad as the supposedly kind left make out. I've read democrat policy and you won't agree with me, but lord help you when Biden gets in, if they do everything they say they will. If they do it'll be a first though.


I think when all the dust settles we'll find out Trump was far worse than we thought. 
Presidents don't make policy so you don't have to worry about us on that account. I don't know why we make elections about policy because our system of government is designed so that the President has very little power in that regard. 
What lies are said about Trump? Do you not find his behavior unpleasant at all?


----------



## Elles

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...od-morning-britain-kate-garraway-b745361.html

This is particularly bad as the interviewer's husband had been in icu and sick with Covid for weeks. Jumped for joy and shadenfruede aren't what you expect from a celeb on national tv.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Am I understanding correctly that you're saying he mocked her for stumbling not knowing she also had pneumonia. And that's okay. If he had known she had pneumonia and mocked her for stumbling that would not be okay?
> But you're not disputing he mocked her correct?
> 
> Is mocking an opponent in any context appropriate for a world leader?
> 
> This is a very vague statement. Which celebs? Which democrats? What conspiracy theories? Where are the statements by youtube, twitter and FB? Do you have any links?
> 
> I think when all the dust settles we'll find out Trump was far worse than we thought.
> Presidents don't make policy so you don't have to worry about us on that account. I don't know why we make elections about policy because our system of government is designed so that the President has very little power in that regard.
> What lies are said about Trump? Do you not find his behavior unpleasant at all?


lol are you reading my posts, I already said mocking her for stumbling is bad and criticised the attacks on biden's mental health. Do you think it's ok for the left to be as nasty as they like and take the moral high ground though?


----------



## Elles

As for the rest I forget. There are a couple of democrats who have been asked to resign over it, one is a woman. I tried a quick search myself, but the news is all about twitter stopping some of it, with pages of general examples and I can’t remember the names, sorry.

I agree that Trump’s past may well turn out to be worse than we thought, though I’d expect it to have been leaked by now, but I don’t think his time as president will turn out to be worse. He hasn’t taken you to war yet.


----------



## SbanR

Magyarmum said:


> But will he?
> 
> BJ didn't get an easy ride despite having the best of the NHS in attendance. And he's nearly 20 years younger and much fitter than DT,


You've missed some crucial differences.

Trump has received anti-virals. 
As far as I remember, Boris only had oxygen therapy and that, only when he was already very ill.

Crucially, Trump has opted for early intervention.
Boris delayed till he could delay no longer.

Perhaps remembering how ill Boris became had some influence on Trump's decision.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...od-morning-britain-kate-garraway-b745361.html
> 
> This is particularly bad as the interviewer's husband had been in icu and sick with Covid for weeks. Jumped for joy and shadenfruede aren't what you expect from a celeb on national tv.


Okay, this is in the UK, and I don't know who Dominic West is, but I take it he's not a politician in charge of any policy or government body? I'm not sure why his opinion or statements should matter in the realm of politics.



Elles said:


> lol are you reading my posts, I already said mocking her for stumbling is bad and criticised the attacks on biden's mental health. Do you think it's ok for the left to be as nasty as they like and take the moral high ground though?


I am, and I'm confused by your posts as you seem to be defending Trumps behavior, something which I find hard to understand. 
As for your comment about the left - that's classic whataboutism isn't it? Not really a productive way to have a conversation. 
I'm talking about Trump and his behavior and if you find it okay, which despite your statement here, is a bit confusing where you stand.

If you want to talk about Biden, Dominic West, or another person's behavior, that's a separate conversation. To throw out "the left" is even more of a separate conversation as "the left" is an amorphous idea. Who is the left? What is the left? It's not a specific person who's behavior you can opine on.

I happen to like politicians on all sides. I greatly admired John McCain and felt he ran an excellent campaign against Obama. I ended up voting for Obama but would have been perfectly happy with McCain as president too. To me it's not about policies or what side of the isle you are, but what kind of person you are. Because a good person will work for the good of the people no matter how that ends up washing out.


----------



## stuaz

Elles said:


> He hasn't taken you to war yet.


Depends on how you look at it. The pictures and videos of various violent clashes of police and citizens over racial divisions certainly resembled some war scenes...

While he alone isn't responsible for everything police or protesters did, or for years of racial inequalities, he certainly fanned the flames in some instances.


----------



## Elles

People in this thread have been hoping Trump gets really sick and other nasties. I was just pointing out that someone said if the same things were being said about Biden people would probably lose their jobs etc., but apparently it’s ok to even wish death on Trump, Melania and her family. That is what I was talking about. 

That even public figures think it’s ok to go on national tv and express joy that he’s ill. I’m not surprised he’s ill, they have been a bit blasé about it, but it’s a horrible illness, I don’t think we should be wishing it on anyone, or gloating about it. That’s all.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> People in this thread have been hoping Trump gets really sick and other nasties.


ONE person wished he would get really sick so that he would better understand what those who have had it have gone through. Everyone else said they do NOT wish harm on him. 
Now who's exaggerating for the sake of a narrative?



Elles said:


> someone said if the same things were being said about Biden people would probably lose their jobs etc.,


This is nothing but speculation and assumption. You don't know who said it, you can't give specific examples of people wishing death on the president, or gloating about him suffering. So again, now who is exaggerating and putting forth a narrative to push their own agenda?


----------



## Elles

stuaz said:


> Depends on how you look at it. The pictures and videos of various violent clashes of police and citizens over racial divisions certainly resembled some war scenes...
> 
> While he alone isn't responsible for everything police or protesters did, or for years of racial inequalities, he certainly fanned the flames in some instances.


What the police reportedly did in some of those situations, attacking and arresting people who were doing nothing wrong, didn't look like war, but it didn't look like anything you'd expect to see in a free America that's for sure. Of course I don't agree with the rioting and I really don't agree with some of the daft excuses people gave to justify stealing TVs, but I was truly shocked at how some of the police behaved.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> ONE person wished he would get really sick so that he would better understand what those who have had it have gone through. Everyone else said they do NOT wish harm on him.
> Now who's exaggerating for the sake of a narrative?
> 
> This is nothing but speculation and assumption. You don't know who said it, you can't give specific examples of people wishing death on the president, or gloating about him suffering. So again, now who is exaggerating and putting forth a narrative to push their own agenda?


I just gave an example of someone gloating on tv. https://nypost.com/2020/10/02/trump-haters-rejoicing-in-his-testing-positive-for-covid-19/

Twitter, Facebook, YouTube etc have now said they will ban anyone tweeting ill wishes, so there won't be any examples. At least now it is being said that it's unacceptable. Not quite so strict on people attacking jk Rowling though. It's about time social media were brought to book over some of the content imo. It still gets me about people singing when MT died and dancing about a young woman not so well known who died of a brain tumour. People are just nasty, even the supposedly nice ones.


----------



## Blackadder

O2.0 said:


> ONE person wished he would get really sick so that he would better understand what those who have had it have gone through.


Yep, that's probably me 
You know what? I don't regret it for a second! As I said, I don't want him to die.... far from it but I want him to appreciate what his total disregard the effect of this virus had on millions of people he was supposed to protect, the people who suffered & died while he did nothing but play politics with other peoples lives for his own ends!

I might well be on my own but that is unforgiveable!


----------



## Dave S

Blackadder said:


> Yep, that's probably me
> You know what? I don't regret it for a second! As I said, I don't want him to die.... far from it but I want him to appreciate what his total disregard the effect of this virus had on millions of people he was supposed to protect, the people who suffered & died while he did nothing but play politics with other peoples lives for his own ends!
> 
> I might well be on my own but that is unforgiveable!


Actually I though it might have been me, so therefore Blackadder you are on your own, with me, as I echo completely your sentiments.


----------



## picaresque

I don't disagree @Elles that a vocal minority of those 'on the left' are quite hostile and intolerant and yeah maybe it's bad form to (out loud...) wish illness and death on even the worst people but Trump is a genuinely dangerous man. Telling a white supremacist org to 'stand back and stand by?'. Chilling, and something that future generations will probably look back on and think 'how did they let this happen?'.
I just can't see this as the usual left vs right bickering.


----------



## Elles

picaresque said:


> I don't disagree @Elles that a vocal minority of those 'on the left' are quite hostile and intolerant and yeah maybe it's bad form to (out loud...) wish illness and death on even the worst people but Trump is a genuinely dangerous man. Telling a white supremacist org to 'stand back and stand by?'. Chilling, and something that future generations will probably look back on and think 'how did they let this happen?'.
> I just can't see this as the usual left vs right bickering.


Trump said he didn't know who they were. It was Biden who brought them up. However, Trump knows who antifa are, he should know who white supremacist groups are and be ready to condemn both. I'd never heard of proud boys before then either, but I'm not the American President.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> Twitter, Facebook, YouTube etc have now said they will ban anyone tweeting ill wishes, so there won't be any examples.


Initially your complaint was that if this were Biden, people would be thrown off social media for wishing him ill. Turns out they are. So your speculation turned out to be a) speculation, and b) wrong.

I agree that the JK Rowling backlash was ridiculous, mean, and completely unacceptable. 
It's also a completely different case. JK Rowling is an incredibly talented, determined person who brought incredible joy to an entire generation and more, got tons of kids reading and excited about books, donates masses of her own money to worthy causes, and in general has done incredible good for the world. To paint her as hateful in any way is just ridiculous and I think most sensible people see that.

Donald Trump is no JK Rowling. He has a long history of abusive, hateful behavior and has done real harm to individuals and our entire nation. I don't wish him harm in any way, but sometimes you do reap what you sow. If people are being hateful to him, that's wrong, but it's also understandable.


----------



## Dave S

I think the White House are guilty of mis-information.
Taken from BBC site;
_
White House tries to clarify Trump illness timeline

The White House says Trump's doctor misspoke when he earlier said that the president was "72 hours" into his illness.

A White House official told reporters that Dr Sean Conley had meant to say that Trump was on "Day 3" of the infection, counting from Thursday evening.

Seventy-two hours would place the president's diagnosis on Wednesday morning - which as our North America reporter Anthony Zurcher points out, is before the president travelled to Minnesota for a campaign rally that night, before he flew to New Jersey for a fund-raiser on Thursday and more than 36 hours before the president revealed his diagnosis in a late-night tweet.

The White House also said that another member of Trump's medical team had meant to say that it was "Day 2" - not 48 hours - since the experimental drug Regeneron was administered to Trump._​
Question is, who is correct and did DT show signs on Thursday? Surely the doctor knows what he is talking about.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> Question is, who is correct and did DT show signs on Thursday? Surely the doctor knows what he is talking about.


I think the Doctor will say what his told to say!


----------



## kimthecat

Elles said:


> People in this thread have been hoping Trump gets really sick and other nasties. I was just pointing out that someone said if the same things were being said about Biden people would probably lose their jobs etc., but apparently it's ok to even wish death on Trump, Melania and her family. That is what I was talking about.
> 
> That even public figures think it's ok to go on national tv and express joy that he's ill. I'm not surprised he's ill, they have been a bit blasé about it, but it's a horrible illness, I don't think we should be wishing it on anyone, or gloating about it. That's all.


There were tweets wishing him dead . Twitter said they would ban anyone tweeting this.


----------



## kimthecat

I dont wish him ill but to be honest I dont really care.


----------



## picaresque




----------



## Magyarmum

Dave S said:


> I think the White House are guilty of mis-information.
> Taken from BBC site;
> _
> White House tries to clarify Trump illness timeline
> 
> The White House says Trump's doctor misspoke when he earlier said that the president was "72 hours" into his illness.
> 
> A White House official told reporters that Dr Sean Conley had meant to say that Trump was on "Day 3" of the infection, counting from Thursday evening.
> 
> Seventy-two hours would place the president's diagnosis on Wednesday morning - which as our North America reporter Anthony Zurcher points out, is before the president travelled to Minnesota for a campaign rally that night, before he flew to New Jersey for a fund-raiser on Thursday and more than 36 hours before the president revealed his diagnosis in a late-night tweet.
> 
> The White House also said that another member of Trump's medical team had meant to say that it was "Day 2" - not 48 hours - since the experimental drug Regeneron was administered to Trump._​
> Question is, who is correct and did DT show signs on Thursday? Surely the doctor knows what he is talking about.





Happy Paws2 said:


> I think the Doctor will say what his told to say!


https://www.axios.com/trump-coronav...ley-8f430db2-fcbb-4c37-9313-bf6d89aac3b7.html

*White House enters cleanup mode over Trump's COVID-19 timeline*


----------



## MollySmith

Blackadder said:


> Yep, that's probably me
> You know what? I don't regret it for a second! As I said, I don't want him to die.... far from it but I want him to appreciate what his total disregard the effect of this virus had on millions of people he was supposed to protect, the people who suffered & died while he did nothing but play politics with other peoples lives for his own ends!
> 
> I might well be on my own but that is unforgiveable!


Very late to this party as I've been away from PF but pretty much agree with you.

From the UK, the narrative of his infection is greatly muddled. It strikes me that many of the grownups in charge are bending the rules. We've discussed it many times and we can now throw Boris Johnson's father into this - again! It's beyond me why it's so bloody hard for presidents and leaders to follow the basic rules that they have put in place.

If the timeline of Trump getting infected is muddled then he has put many at risk. That's just wrong on all levels. That's smacks of yet more arrogance and ignorance. If anything this crisis has taught us that we have to be accountable. A skill that Trump has never had. _If _he is ill then maybe there is hope he will appreciate the impact more but it's hardly made a difference to Johnson's approach (IMO) *shrug*


----------



## O2.0

MollySmith said:


> If the timeline of Trump getting infected is muddled then he has put many at risk.


It is very unclear when he tested positive and if he knowingly infected many others. Based on statements made by his doctors for how long he's been on antivirals, it's possible he knew as early as Thursday that he was positive yet went to events anyway. I find that unconscionable.


----------



## Bethh29

Death wishes are pretty low, no matter who the person is. I do wonder whether it was all fakes for a little sympathy vote. If so, it backfired...


----------



## O2.0

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=338634887456021


----------



## picaresque

O2.0 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=338634887456021


Mamala Harris :Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum

Words fail me!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/covid...oyride-with-grim-secret-service-agents-in-tow

*COVID-Positive Trump Ignores CDC Advice to Take Joyride, With Grim Secret Service Agents in Tow*

but before he left he posted this video


----------



## Dave S

Those poor guys he just possibly infected. 
Does he not have ant common sense?


----------



## MollySmith

O2.0 said:


> It is very unclear when he tested positive and if he knowingly infected many others. Based on statements made by his doctors for how long he's been on antivirals, it's possible he knew as early as Thursday that he was positive yet went to events anyway. I find that unconscionable.


Agree. It's buying into the narrative he has created that it's not that serious. At times Johnson over here has almost _almost_ sunk towards this but never as low as Trump. The photos of him from the hospital which we've seen over heee are very suspicious and almost certainly edited.


----------



## MilleD

MollySmith said:


> Agree. It's buying into the narrative he has created that it's not that serious. At times Johnson over here has almost _almost_ sunk towards this but never as low as Trump. The photos of him from the hospital which we've seen over heee are very suspicious and almost certainly edited.


Edited how? As in he wasn't there??


----------



## Magyarmum

MilleD said:


> Edited how? As in he wasn't there??


I think @MollySmith is referring to the videos put out from Walter Reed Hospital which show Trump working. In one he's shown ostensibly signing documents which have been said to be blank pieces of paper.

In the one below it has been alleged that the video has been edited after the word "therapeutic" where apparently he coughed. If you listen closely you'll hear him make a slight "hiccup" sort of sound.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?476595-1/president-trump-video-statement-walter-reed


----------



## O2.0

MollySmith said:


> The photos of him from the hospital which we've seen over heee are very suspicious and almost certainly edited.


You think? How so? They didn't strike me as suspicious or edited. Staged? Sure. He's trying to paint a picture of a mild case.



Magyarmum said:


> Words fail me!


Where there was speculation before if he knowingly infected others on Thursday, now there is clear evidence that he doesn't care about infecting others with his little joy ride inside that SUV. Everyone in that vehicle was exposed. All for a photo op.


----------



## Magyarmum

O2.0 said:


> You think? How so? They didn't strike me as suspicious or edited. Staged? Sure. He's trying to paint a picture of a mild case.
> 
> Where there was speculation before if he knowingly infected others on Thursday, now there is clear evidence that he doesn't care about infecting others with his little joy ride inside that SUV. Everyone in that vehicle was exposed. All for a photo op.


Doing a Bolsonaro maybe?

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...nald-trump-jair-bolsonaro-coronavirus/616602/

*What Bolsonaro's COVID-19 Case Tells Us About Trump's*


----------



## Happy Paws2

Dave S said:


> Those poor guys he just possibly infected.
> *Does he not have ant common sense?*


In a word NO, all thinks about is himself.:Banghead


----------



## O2.0

The best political advertisement yet  



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10158612984855970


----------



## Bisbow

Happy Paws2 said:


> In a word NO, all thinks about is himself.:Banghead


" I am invincible, I am great, the best thing America has ever had"
Or so he thinks, hope he falls from a great height at the election


----------



## Arny

He's going to end up killing himself (and infect others) just to look tough.
He is not over the worst yet.


----------



## Jesthar

Dave S said:


> Those poor guys he just possibly infected.
> Does he not have any common sense?


Certainly no common decency...


----------



## MollySmith

Magyarmum said:


> I think @MollySmith is referring to the videos put out from Walter Reed Hospital which show Trump working. In one he's shown ostensibly signing documents which have been said to be blank pieces of paper.
> 
> In the one below it has been alleged that the video has been edited after the word "therapeutic" where apparently he coughed. If you listen closely you'll hear him make a slight "hiccup" sort of sound.
> 
> https://www.c-span.org/video/?476595-1/president-trump-video-statement-walter-reed


yes that's it, thank you @Magyarmum, the reflections are very odd. I used to edit photos for a living so Photoshop crimes just stand out.


----------



## Blackadder

Reported that at least ten of Trumps close aids, including press secretary Kayleigh Mcenany, have tested positive + two Republican senators who attended recent gatherings.

Seems the White house is a little "hotbed" of infection, who'd have thunk it


----------



## SbanR




----------



## O2.0

SbanR said:


> View attachment 451281


This. 
I know he's the president and of course is going to get the best healthcare we have, I don't begrudge him that.

But other people simply don't get that kind of healthcare, don't have the same guarantee of income if they have to be hospitalized for a few days, a few weeks, a few months. Don't have others to step in and take care of children, the home, responsibilities. It's just not the same.

For him to sail through this with the enormous support network he has, physical, emotional, and financial and then turn around and tell others not to worry shows such a deep disconnect and lack of understanding of what others are suffering. It boggles the mind really


----------



## Linda Weasel

But we knew this anyway...


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> This.
> I know he's the president and of course is going to get the best healthcare we have, I don't begrudge him that.
> 
> But other people simply don't get that kind of healthcare, don't have the same guarantee of income if they have to be hospitalized for a few days, a few weeks, a few months. Don't have others to step in and take care of children, the home, responsibilities. It's just not the same.
> 
> For him to sail through this with the enormous support network he has, physical, emotional, and financial and then turn around and tell others not to worry shows such a deep disconnect and lack of understanding of what others are suffering. It boggles the mind really


He's struggling to breathe even with the treatment he's had.


----------



## SusieRainbow

Linda Weasel said:


> View attachment 451284
> But we knew this anyway...


I don't see any sgn of the first !


----------



## Linda Weasel

Anyone old enough to remember that final scene from ‘Spartacus’, where they strap the dead leader onto his horse, and send him out, so the troops aren’t demoralised?

I have no idea why I thought of that....


----------



## Dave S

Well the Americans are after John McAfee for not paying tax, - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54431726 - winder if they will go after someone else after November?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Linda Weasel said:


> Anyone old enough to remember that final scene from '*Spartacus*', *where they strap the dead leader onto his horse, and send him out, so the troops aren't demoralised?*
> 
> I have no idea why I thought of that....


I think that was EL Cid


----------



## Magyarmum

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-tusk-mocks-trump-over-covid-19-coronavirus-tweet/

*Donald vs. Donald: Tusk mocks Trump over coronavirus tweet*


----------



## Jesthar

Blackadder said:


> Reported that at least ten of Trumps close aids, including press secretary Kayleigh Mcenany, have tested positive + two Republican senators who attended recent gatherings.
> 
> Seems the White house is a little "hotbed" of infection, who'd have thunk it


----------



## Linda Weasel

Happy Paws2 said:


> I think that was EL Cid


You're right.


----------



## Lurcherlad




----------



## SbanR

Happy Paws2 said:


> I think that was EL Cid


Charlton Heston, wasn't it?


----------



## Happy Paws2

SbanR said:


> Charlton Heston, wasn't it?


Yes it was 

Spartacus was Kirk Douglas.


----------



## MissyfromMice

Trump supporter's logic


----------



## rona




----------



## SbanR

Song: Covita


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Calvine

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ion-on-donald-trumps-fitness-for-office-video
It looks as tho' she is trying to get him taken away; he calls her ''Crazy Nancy'' apparently. What a pantomime.


----------



## Magyarmum

Calvine said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ion-on-donald-trumps-fitness-for-office-video
> It looks as tho' she is trying to get him taken away; he calls her ''Crazy Nancy'' apparently. What a pantomime.[/QUOTE
> 
> The New England Journal of Medicine is calling for him to be voted out.
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/07/health/nejm-editorial-political-leadership-bn/index.html
> 
> *Prestigious medical journal calls for US leadership to be voted out over Covid-19 failure*


----------



## Linda Weasel




----------



## Happy Paws2

Linda Weasel said:


> View attachment 451492


Brilliant :Hilarious


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## kimthecat

It looks like in some US areas the Polls have opened early and voters have been queuing for hours. Thye'r determined to vote. i really admire them. I wonder if the people in the UK would wait that long?


----------



## Happy Paws2

Does anyone else think that DT having Covid-19 is fake and just a publicity stunt.


----------



## Boxer123

Happy Paws2 said:


> Does anyone else think that DT having Covid-19 is fake and just a publicity stunt.


I would believe anything at this point. Did you see his rally yesterday everyone jammed in no masks. Scary thing is I think he will win again.


----------



## Bobbie

Happy Paws2 said:


> Does anyone else think that DT having Covid-19 is fake and just a publicity stunt.


 Don't like to think anyone would fake this illness but to be cured so quick somehow seems suspicious


----------



## O2.0

Happy Paws2 said:


> Does anyone else think that DT having Covid-19 is fake and just a publicity stunt.


I'm sure it would have leaked by now if it were. 
There's far too many people involved for it to have been faked. Someone would have talked by now if it were.


----------



## StormyThai

Happy Paws2 said:


> Does anyone else think that DT having Covid-19 is fake and just a publicity stunt.


I don't think he is capable of pulling off a lie that big tbh...
However, I do think that he is hiding the amount of aftercare that he is receiving so that he can play the "see, it's not so bad after all" card!


----------



## Blackadder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316194625405751296
Shared by Trump on Twitter, the man disgusts me!


----------



## Calvine

Bobbie said:


> Don't like to think anyone would fake this illness but to be cured so quick somehow seems suspicious


 Yes, especially at his age, and apparently he is technically ''obese'' (tho'. of course, being tall, he appears less so than BJ who does look a bit like Mr Blobby). Saw a picture of his 14-yr-old son Barron recently and he is taller than his mother already and she is not tiny in her 6'' heels. There was a letter published from his doctor which confirmed he had the ''Hong Kong Fluey'' but then . . . maybe Michael Jackson's doctor got the job. I guess his doctor will pretty much say what he pays him to say.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Calvine said:


> Yes, especially at his age, and apparently he is technically ''obese'' (tho'. of course, being tall, he appears less so than* BJ who does look a bit like Mr Blobby).* S


That's a insult to Mr Blobby.


----------



## Magyarmum




----------



## Happy Paws2

Love it :Hilarious


----------



## Sandysmum

Happy Paws2 said:


> Does anyone else think that DT having Covid-19 is fake and just a publicity stunt.


TBH, that was my first thought, the timing seems suspiciously convenient . The white house has a fully equipped clinic and the best medical staff, so was the very public helicopter trip to the hospital really needed? His quick recovery means he didn't need to be put on a ventilator. His joyride in a sealed car put his staff at risk. His return to the white house was staged like the trailer for a movie. I think with the cult like following he has, that he could have pulled it off, but I don't think he actually did. 
I think he probably did show a few mild symptoms, and took advantage of that, saying it was worse than it was to galvanise his supporters into their mass rallies showing how much they luuuuvv him. 
And how many people caught the virus due to his actions by holding meetings, and rallies with no social distancing and no masks?

Although I don't like Trump, I don't wish him, his family or any one else any harm, and if he really has it then I hope he recovers and learns the meaning of the words empathy and sympathy.


----------



## Dave S

I really do hope that DT wins another 4 years.

I have not got anything against Joe Biden and I am sure he will do a better job being an honest, upright geriatric type of guy.

BUT

If DT does not win he has threatened to leave USA.

_*The President made the comments to a rally of his supporters in Macon, Georgia.*
*Mr Biden is currently the favourite to win when American's go to the polls on November 3.*
*Addressing his supporters Mr Trump said: "You know what - running against the worst candidate in the history of presidential politics puts pressure on me.*
*"Could you imagine if I lose what am I going to do?*
*"I'm going to say I lost to the worst candidate in the history of politics.*​*"I'm not going to feel so good.*
*"Maybe I'll have to leave the country, I don't know."*_
* Mr Trump's supporters laughed at the comments, which appeared to be made in jest.*​
We all know he has golf courses in Ireland and Scotland so it is feasible he may end up there.

God help us all then should he take up British citizenship and run for Parliament here.

So please, all you American voters, vote Trump and keep him there, not here.

Thank you


----------



## MissyfromMice

*Donald Trump blasts Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer as crowd chants 'lock her up'
*
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...sts-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer-crowd/

Appalling...


----------



## Trixie1

MissyfromMice said:


> *Donald Trump blasts Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer as crowd chants 'lock her up'
> *
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...sts-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer-crowd/
> 
> Appalling...


It really is outrageous how Trump gets away with this type of rhetoric time and time again!! He's an imbecile! and very, very dangerous. I really hope he is voted out. I don't think the world could cope with another four years of his nonsense. Time to go Mr President, before you cause anymore damage to America and indeed the world.


----------



## Dave S

Did I hear right on the news last night as to what he called CNN whilst addressing a supporters rally?


----------



## Elles

Dave S said:


> Did I hear right on the news last night as to what he called CNN whilst addressing a supporters rally?


No idea, what is he supposed to have done now?

The opposition has lied about him so often, it's getting to the stage I don't believe anything they say. People are more likely to do stupid things, because the opposition say Donald Trump said or did something, than over what the guy actually said or did.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> The opposition has lied about him so often, it's getting to the stage I don't believe anything they say.


This is a common pro-Trump argument. Which I find interesting as the same doesn't hold true for Trump himself. 
As much as DT lies, his supporters continue to believe every thing he says, and the Q-anon conspiracy theories. 
JFK Jr is still alive don't you know - and attending Trump rallies


----------



## Dave S

Elles said:


> No idea, what is he supposed to have done now?.


I am sure he referred to CNN as being "Illegitimate" at a rally that was reported on ITV news last night.


----------



## Magyarmum

Dave S said:


> I am sure he referred to CNN as being "Illegitimate" at a rally that was reported on ITV news last night.


Is this what you're referring to?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbr...i-others-as-election-approaches/#2eb2379c5142


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> This is a common pro-Trump argument. Which I find interesting as the same doesn't hold true for Trump himself.
> As much as DT lies, his supporters continue to believe every thing he says, and the Q-anon conspiracy theories.
> JFK Jr is still alive don't you know - and attending Trump rallies


Hehe, that's like the argument that if you say you aren't racist, you are, so you cant win.

What do you think where he says that everyone with Covid will get the same drug treatment he did and for free? The drug companies are working on distribution. Is America treating Covid cases for free?


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> This is a common pro-Trump argument.


They need to stop doing it then. 

ETA Hmm, I don't know how that happened, my iPad must have sneezed. There weren't supposed to be two answers to the same message.


----------



## Dave S

Magyarmum said:


> Is this what you're referring to?
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbr...i-others-as-election-approaches/#2eb2379c5142


Yes, how rude of him.


----------



## StormyThai

Elles said:


> Hehe, that's like the argument that if you say you aren't racist, you are, so you cant win.


I'm not sure that is comparable really


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> Hehe, that's like the argument that if you say you aren't racist, you are, so you cant win.


Is it? I don't see the connection. 
Trump lies - Trump followers believe him
Media lies - Trump followers don't believe the media. 
Clearly Trump followers are capable of discerning lies as they are able to when the media does it. But when it come to Trump they suddenly become incapable of discerning a lie. I find that interesting.

As a term, racist/racism is so confused that it almost has lost meaning. Saying you're not racist has about as much (non) meaning as saying you are racist. 
But an untruth is easy enough to check against actual facts and reality. 
So no, I don't see the analogy you're making.



Elles said:


> What do you think where he says that everyone with Covid will get the same drug treatment he did and for free? The drug companies are working on distribution. Is America treating Covid cases for free?


You're joking right? 
No, of course the US isn't treating Covid cases for free, no one is getting drugs for free either. 
People who are insured pay what they normally would - for me that's 20% of the bill and whatever co-pay I might have. 
The Trump administration has said they would reimburse providers for *part* of the cost of treating uninsured patients but with enough caveats that providers may not see much relief. 
And don't forget, most US workers - particularly those who are uninsured have jobs where they don't have sick days where they can be out sick and still get paid. Don't work, don't get paid. Even if you're in the hospital on a ventilator. So even if you don't get saddles with a huge medical bill, you're still losing money because you're not working. 
That's why the stimulus deal is so important.


----------



## Elles

No, I'm not joking. I just watched some of the speech and that's what he said. He said that treatment for Covid is free and everyone with Covid will get the same medication he did and for free. He also said that there would be ?million vaccines by the end of the year and the military will be distributing them. (Forgot the actual number). He said he's now immune for four months and could kiss every man and woman in his audience.

We don't have vaccines. This is the latest from the U.K. Doesn't sound like we'll have millions of vaccines this year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-to-infect-young-volunteers-to-hasten-vaccine

Boris drives me bonkers btw. I really can't stand him, spluttering and umming and ahhing, spending 10 minutes to say something that should take 10 seconds. I listen to find out what the next lot of rules are and have to switch off. For God's sake man, spit it out. :Rage Is that what they learn in those schools? How to delay actually saying something, so you can say as little as possible in the time allocated? It is so important that people get clear advice and instruction and not everyone has good English, his spluttering and flapping like a fish out of water, is incredibly annoying. I hope they replace him before the next election.


----------



## Happy Paws2

Elles said:


> Boris drives me bonkers btw. I really can't stand him, spluttering and umming and ahhing, spending 10 minutes to say something that should take 10 seconds. I listen to find out what the next lot of rules are and have to switch off. For God's sake man, spit it out. :Rage Is that what they learn in those schools? How to delay actually saying something, so you can say as little as possible in the time allocated? It is so important that people get clear advice and instruction and not everyone has good English, his spluttering and flapping like a fish out of water, is incredibly annoying. I hope they replace him before the next election.


I've always thought his was a spluttering idiot, he proofs it every time he opens his now.


----------



## mrs phas

Happy Paws2 said:


> I've always thought his was a spluttering idiot, he proofs it every time he opens his now.


Allegedly he's going in the spring, after Brexit, as he makes more per year (circa £230,000) through journalism and public speaking
Than the measly £150,000 a year being prime minister nets him
Apparently he's finding it too hard to exist, having taken such a cut in income

*Please let it be true


----------



## kimthecat

mrs phas said:


> Allegedly he's going in the spring, after Brexit, as he makes more per year (circa £230,000) through journalism and public speaking
> Than the measly £150,000 a year being prime minister nets him
> Apparently he's finding it too hard to exist, having taken such a cut in income
> 
> *Please let it be true


Oh i hope so. This is from a selfish point of view as I hope we would get an MP who cares about us( his constituents ) rather than just used us as a stepping stone to become the PM.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> No, I'm not joking. I just watched some of the speech and that's what he said. He said that treatment for Covid is free and everyone with Covid will get the same medication he did and for free. He also said that there would be ?million vaccines by the end of the year and the military will be distributing them. (Forgot the actual number). He said he's now immune for four months and could kiss every man and woman in his audience.


Elles please forgive me, but you have to understand, I'm surrounded by people who genuinely believe this stuff and I have to make sure you're not being facetious and posting tongue in cheek. You do know this is all utter bullshit right?


----------



## Sandysmum

When I watch Trump doing his thing at the big rallies, he comes across like one of those old time preachers, all shouty, saying what the crowd wants to hear regardless of if it's true or not. In fact the whole Trumpian reign is like a new sect,with him as the charismatic leader who will save them. His followers hang on to his every word believing he has all the answers, even when he's constantly lied, his word is the only one to be believed. 
I think he's a genuinely scary person, with a Messiah complex.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> Elles please forgive me, but you have to understand, I'm surrounded by people who genuinely believe this stuff and I have to make sure you're not being facetious and posting tongue in cheek. You do know this is all utter bullshit right?


To be fair, I haven't fact checked this one and of course in the U.K. we do get the treatment and hospitalisation on the nhs, so I suppose I was hoping Americans were at least getting some free treatment for Covid. I don't believe anything on the news and if it comes from the horse's mouth I want a 5 stage vet check and corroboration from trusted sources. So no, hoping to be wrong for America's sake, but I did think it was from the bull's backside, just using you as a fact checker in this instance. 

There is so much the guy says that he could be pulled up on, but it seems to be ignored and fake news put out there instead. I wonder why? Do they secretly want Trump to win, or do they think voters are gullible, no one fact checks and mud sticks? I'm sorry, but looking at Biden, I think it's possible they do want Trump to win and Democrats to take over once Covid, demonstrations and riots are out of the way, but that would be in conspiracy theory territory. :Brb


----------



## Jobeth

O2.0 said:


> Elles please forgive me, but you have to understand, I'm surrounded by people who genuinely believe this stuff and I have to make sure you're not being facetious and posting tongue in cheek. You do know this is all utter bullshit right?


It has definitely been reported that he made those comments although I don't believe he really would provide the medication for free.


----------



## Elles

Round about 1.19 in he's talking about free medication and vaccine. He leads up to it talking about drug prices, buying drugs from Canada, Hunter Biden and middlemen/women ..


----------



## Elles

All I can find elsewhere is that $100 billion has been set aside to pay hospitals to treat uninsured patients and that a covid test could be free. But that also a lot of people are being charged when they shouldn’t be, being told that they only get their test free if it’s a positive result and that some won’t give a covid test until you’ve paid to exclude other conditions first, so a lot of controversy around it, whether it is actually free and whether it covers the full cost. It seems there is some truth in what he said though, enough to not draw attention to it.


----------



## O2.0

Elles said:


> All I can find elsewhere is that $100 billion has been set aside to pay hospitals to treat uninsured patients and that a covid test could be free. But that also a lot of people are being charged when they shouldn't be, being told that they only get their test free if it's a positive result and that some won't give a covid test until you've paid to exclude other conditions first, so a lot of controversy around it, whether it is actually free and whether it covers the full cost. It seems there is some truth in what he said though, enough to not draw attention to it.


There are free covid screening tests but if you're actually sick and go to the doctor, they don't run a covid test until they have eliminated other possibilities - around here that seems to be the protocol. People with classic covid symptoms go to the doctor and they run flu, strep, and other tests, wait for those results before running a covid test. The covid test results take 3 days or more to come back. Offering free testing is great but unless you have the infrastructure, supplies, and manpower to run those tests, it doesn't do any good. And there doesn't seem to be a plan in place to help build the needed supplies, manpower, and lab equipment needed to get the tests back in time to actually benefit the patient. 
Unless you're rich of course, then you can get the more expensive test and hire your own people to culture and run the results.


----------



## Elles

O2.0 said:


> There are free covid screening tests but if you're actually sick and go to the doctor, they don't run a covid test until they have eliminated other possibilities - around here that seems to be the protocol. People with classic covid symptoms go to the doctor and they run flu, strep, and other tests, wait for those results before running a covid test. The covid test results take 3 days or more to come back. Offering free testing is great but unless you have the infrastructure, supplies, and manpower to run those tests, it doesn't do any good. And there doesn't seem to be a plan in place to help build the needed supplies, manpower, and lab equipment needed to get the tests back in time to actually benefit the patient.
> Unless you're rich of course, then you can get the more expensive test and hire your own people to culture and run the results.


Apparently whoever is in charge are working on rectifying it, so that people get their free covid tests without paying for flu and other tests first. That wasn't supposed to happen and doesn't everywhere in the usa . Typical greed. Here it's on the nhs, so the last thing they want is to run a bunch of expensive tests first. It comes out of their budget, not ours. If you watch the video, trump is talking of using the military.


----------



## kimthecat

Lets all do the Trump dance. C'mon everybody!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319545481815609344


----------



## Happy Paws2

That mad me laugh, Maybe they could polish it up a bit for Strictly :Hilarious


----------



## MissyfromMice




----------



## Happy Paws2

MissyfromMice said:


> View attachment 454055


----------



## LittleMow

Be nice to think this thread could become obsolete, but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon


----------



## ebonycat

He’s in the WH until 20th January (I think??), he’s got a big mouth, especially on Twitter. He’s not going to go quietly.


----------



## Sandysmum

ebonycat said:


> He's in the WH until 20th January (I think??), he's got a big mouth, especially on Twitter. He's not going to go quietly.


No, he'll be kicking and screaming all the way till they pry his fingers off the front door of the white house . What a sore looser!!!


----------



## Cully

Have you all forgotten his plans if he lost the election is to come and live in Scotland. Now that's scary:Jawdrop!!


----------



## Calvine

jetsmum said:


> His followers hang on to his every word


 I read he has a kind of fan club called . . . wait for it . . . the Trumpettes. (Not sure how true that is.)


----------



## Happy Paws2

Cully said:


> Have you all forgotten his plans if he lost the election is to come and live in Scotland. Now that's scary:Jawdrop!!


Can't they refuse him a visa


----------



## Dave S

Cully said:


> Have you all forgotten his plans if he lost the election is to come and live in Scotland. Now that's scary:Jawdrop!!


Yes but Scotland wants independence from the UK so you will have your first President already waiting to take charge. Don't worry.

He will probably employ his own building firm to rebuild and extend Hadrian's Wall, declare war on Wales and make the Shetland Isles one big golf course.
His slogan being "Make wherever I am great again"

_*OR, he might be in jail in America or nested up with his friend Putin in Russia who has paid the millions he owes everyone in exchange for state secrets.*_


----------



## Magyarmum

https://img.ifunny.co/videos/572dff76822d57a72ffb4342d782d6ce0dcc0cae4008133040860990b5922ae9_1.mp4


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## MissyfromMice

DT's Madame Tussauds wax figure is transformed into a golfer after Joe Biden's victory.


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## MissyfromMice

Cully said:


> Have you all forgotten his plans if he lost the election is to come and live in Scotland. Now that's scary:Jawdrop!!


It is... :Nailbiting:Nailbiting:Nailbiting


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## Trixie1

He's still tweeting that he's won the election and it's fraud!  It's time
To grow up Mr President and do the right thing for once and concede.


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## Lurcherlad

Calvine said:


> I read he has a kind of fan club called . . . wait for it . . . the Trumpettes. (Not sure how true that is.)


True - there was one on tv the other day.


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## Linda Weasel

Ok


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## Jesthar

The German Tussauds have gone even further!


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## MissyfromMice

Trump's effort to steal the election is done - CNNPolitics


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