# Unplanned litter with non active pedigree BSH - Don't shoot me!



## Loubs (Nov 14, 2011)

Hello all,

This is my first post, so I hope that you will be able to give me your advice.

We got our first pedigree BSH cat Tilly, last year. She is an absolute stunner and we adore her. We had planned on getting her speyed (she is a housecat with occasional supervised garden fun) but didn't want to put her through the operation while we were having building work done to our house as we thought this would be stressful for her.

You guessed it...one of the builders let her out of the house.:mad2:

She was missing for an hour, after which she bounded back home as if nothing had happened. 62 days later she gives birth to 5 amazing kittens who are now 2 weeks old and the most gorgeous little fluffballs you can imagine.

She will be getting speyed as soon as the kittens have left for their new homes. Am I right in thinking this is the best time to do this?

I have bought books and read as much as possible online through the whole process to make sure that she and the kittens have and will continue to have the best care possible.

I have not contacted her breeder about the pregnancy as to be honest, I am a bit scared of her reaction. I am not an irresponsible owner by any stretch of the imagination and adore my animals who are part of my family.

Tilly is currently eating Natures Best Dry Kitten food along with other extras and some wet food. What wet/dry foods would you recommend for her and what foods should I wean the kittens onto? I want them to have the best start in life.

I have quite a few other questions, but I will leave those for another post. 

Thankyou in advance to anyone who can help


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Please be aware that your girl could come back into call before the kittens have left - it isn't unheard of for a cat to be calling again when the kittens are as young as 2 or 3 weeks - so please be very careful that she does not get out again. Ask your vet when they would recommend but I think by the time the kittens are around 8 weeks old would be optimum.
The kittens should remain with you and mum until they are 12 - 13 weeks old and should have their vaccinations before they leave.
I wouldn't recommend a dry diet of any kind really and find that young kittens can gobble dry food very quickly, making it swell in the stomachs and then making them sick  Look for a good quality high meat content wet food - there isn't any need really to use a specific kitten food though I start mine off on one.
Good luck with them


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Pics of kitties please!! They sound gorgeous


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

I rescued a cat and her kittens from my shed. I raised the kittens until 8 weeks, rehomed kittens and then had Mika (my cat) spayed the day after the kittens left. As others have said, please be aware that your cat can get pregnant again at anytime before the spay.

HTH


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

We need pics!!  I'm not surprised she got preggers. The local Tom probably thought all his Christmases had come early when he saw the local beauty queen!

Accidents happen. Don't sweat it and you seem a very responsible cat owner too!! :thumbup:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Look accidents happen and builders do have a habit of ignoring what you say - having chased my breeding queen Birman (luckily NOT in call at the tie) half way across the neighbourhood a couple of years ago when a workman thought I was joking :mad2: I know it can happen. 

Try feeding mum good quality wet food or raw and you will see a vast difference she will come back into condition really quickly. ANd like Lymorelynn says - dry isn't really too good for little ones tummies - it swells to about 4 times the original size once in the tummy so they often vomit it back up. I wean kittens straight onto raw and/ or scrambled egg made with cimicat. I keep them on the raw until I know what their new owners are going to feed and then introduce that a little. I like to know that they have got the very best start in life.


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## Loubs (Nov 14, 2011)

Thankyou all so much for your replies and apologies for not being able to get back online for so long.

Tilly and the kittens are doing brilliantly and they are all growing really well. I will upload some piccies shortly when I have taken some updated ones.

The kittens seem VERY interested in Tillys food (they are 3 weeks, 5 days old) can I pop some mushed up food in with them now for them to try? 

Tilly is looking very slim despite eating TONNES of food. Is there anything that you can recommend that I could give her to help build her up? She is eating dry and wet food, but seems to mainly lick off the jelly/gravy from the wet food rather than eating the pieces.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_hello and welcome, i look forward to seeing pictures.What wet food is mum on now,is it a good quality one, also have you looked into worming mum and kitties,_


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

I love how people say accidents happen, if she was neutered at 3-6months of age, how old is she now? so lal that time to neuter And after she was 'let out by builders' you then had 5 weeks to neuter her... so its not a 'accident' is it?

glad they are doing well, but please neuter them before they leave you, or they could end up in the same circle of accidents :thumbdown:


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## jay_bird (May 24, 2011)

catlove844 said:


> I love how people say accidents happen, if she was neutered at 3-6months of age, how old is she now? so lal that time to neuter And after she was 'let out by builders' you then had 5 weeks to neuter her... so its not a 'accident' is it?
> 
> glad they are doing well, but please neuter them before they leave you, or they could end up in the same circle of accidents :thumbdown:


The OP said she got the cat last year. Even if this was at the end of the year, then the cat must have been born no later than early October 2010. If this cat just had kittens in early November 2011 then I would think she could have been no younger than 11 months when she got accidentally pregnant in or around the beginning of September 2011. Accidents DO happen, as has been said earlier, but they DO happen far more often when neutering is put off month after month. It would *never* happen, but IF an intact female of mine escaped it would be neutered within a week of coming home. Many people like having "accidental" litters though.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

My kitten's mother was only 7 months when she got pregnant!! 

Another 'accidental' litter, but they were given neutering vouchers from the RSPCA. Not sure if she's been done yet though, as she still has two 4-month-old kittens which occasionally feed.


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

You should let the breeder know! Breeders sell there kittens non active for a reason to avoid this...because they dont think there suitable for breeding.She would have advised you of nutering of about 6 months you obviously ignored this.Did you sign a kitten contract?:mad5:


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

kelzcats said:


> You should let the breeder know! Breeders sell there kittens non active for a reason to avoid this...because they dont think there suitable for breeding.She would have advised you of nutering of about 6 months you obviously ignored this.Did you sign a kitten contract?:mad5:


Its non of the breeders business to be honest. She sold the kitten so legally the new owner has ultimate responsibility.

I'm still waiting for pics of the new arrivals :thumbup1:


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

It is the breeders business because they sell there kittens to who they think are responsable cat owners who will NOT let there kittens have unwanted pregnancies,which is exactly what has happened in this case,thats why kitten contracts are signed to stop all this! UNWANTED PREGNANCIES!


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

kelzcats said:


> It is the breeders business because they sell there kittens to who they think are responsable cat owners who will NOT let there kittens have unwanted pregnancies,which is exactly what has happened in this case,thats why kitten contracts are signed to stop all this! UNWANTED PREGNANCIES!


Actually in this case the OP was a responsible owner because she said she wanted to wait until the building work was finished before getting the cat spayed as she didn't want to add any more stress on top of the spay at the time. The cat was a house cat with short supervised garden play sessions. What is wrong with that????

IT WAS THE BUILDERS who let the cat out. Not the owner herself. She is not to blame here.

There is no point pointing the blame at anyone here. What's done is done and its the wellfare of the cat and kittens that is of paramount importance at the end of the day.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> It is the breeders business because they sell there kittens to who they think are responsable cat owners


And the key word is sell. Cats are property in the legal sense and most contracts I've seen are a waste of paper. A contract is a simple matter of a buyer handing over an agreed amount for goods. Anything else is T&Cs. It may say the buyer agrees to get the kitten neutered by a particular age ....................... or what? How is anyone going to enforce that? The cat is the legal property of the person who handed over money for it. Any attempt to interfere with that property would likely be a criminal offence.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I really don't don't want this to descend into another row over whether or not the OP was irresponsible or whether the cat should have been spayed earlier or on becoming pregnant. None of that is now relevant to their situation.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Maybe that is why op has not posted pictures cos she got sick of being slagged off.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

PetloverJo said:


> Maybe that is why op has not posted pictures cos she got sick of being slagged off.


I don't think she's got slagged off. The majority of people were on her side. There was only a few that didn't read the WHOLE thread and got the WHOLE facts.

That shouldn't stop her posting pics. We ADORE cats on here and love seeing new bundles of fun no matter what the circumstances. We try not to be judgemental. Well at least *I* try hard not to.


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## Loubs (Nov 14, 2011)

Blimey your a lovely friendly bunch here aren't you?!

I did not say the litter was accidental, I said it was unplanned. Yes, I could have got her neutered when she came home, but I don't believe that kittens are disposable. I wouldn't have an abortion myself so I don't see why I should do any differently with my cat.

I have been in touch with my vet through the whole process to ensure that Tilly and the kittens get the best of care. They were wormed at 2 weeks as per my vets recommendation and will be wormed again at 5 weeks, as recommended to me.

I wondered why the forum wasn't very busy with new posters, now I totally understand.

Thankyou to Iheartcats who has tried to weather the storm for me and to those of you who have taken the time to reply to me with help, not judgement.


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## jay_bird (May 24, 2011)

Loubs said:


> I did not say the litter was accidental, I said it was unplanned.


sorry, here was me thinking the builders leaving the door open was an accident. no, it was just unplanned. me bad, sorry.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2011)

Awww, I can't wait to see some piccies


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Loubs said:


> Blimey your a lovely friendly bunch here aren't you?!
> 
> I did not say the litter was accidental, I said it was unplanned. Yes, I could have got her neutered when she came home, but I don't believe that kittens are disposable. I wouldn't have an abortion myself so I don't see why I should do any differently with my cat.
> 
> ...


Oh Please dont Anthropomorphise your cat, As you didnt neuter her 6+ months previous, it isnt a accident, a accident implays no one is to blame, if builders are about why is the cat there in the first place? surely should be in another room if she is calling? 

For anyone reading, if you cat got out and mated it takes 2-3 day for sperm to actually just reach the eggs so no 'killing' or 'aborting' kittens will happen, there isnt any to abort, so neutering is fine, infact maybe someone can give a age that it isnt a kitten so no 'aborting' is done.

Next if you were thinking about your british shorthair and the kittens you would know that they have to be blood grouped, if they mate to a non compatiable blood group, when the kittens are born the anti bodies in mums milk will kill them, so she would have gone through all of that for nothing. Next British are renounded for c-sections due to the big heads, say she mated with 3 males twice her size? and 2 with herpes that got passed to the kittens?

so if you was thinking of her neutering her, testing her for anything she could have catched would have been the best idea, just hope shes neutered now.

R.e. contracts are very much forceable, just depends how much the breeder cares and the person buying does to I guess, as to how far they are willing to take it, just another reason for me to early neuter


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> Oh Please dont Anthropomorphise your cat, As you didnt neuter her 6+ months previous, it isnt a accident, a accident implays no one is to blame, if builders are about why is the cat there in the first place? surely should be in another room if she is calling?
> 
> For anyone reading, if you cat got out and mated it takes 2-3 day for sperm to actually just reach the eggs so no 'killing' or 'aborting' kittens will happen, there isnt any to abort, so neutering is fine, infact maybe someone can give a age that it isnt a kitten so no 'aborting' is done.
> 
> ...


So good to see you posting TB .You are sorely missed here.


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

Loubs said:


> Blimey your a lovely friendly bunch here aren't you?!
> 
> I did not say the litter was accidental, I said it was unplanned. Yes, I could have got her neutered when she came home, but I don't believe that kittens are disposable. I wouldn't have an abortion myself so I don't see why I should do any differently with my cat.
> 
> ...


When you have worked in a rescue centre seeing unplanned or even planned litters actually gets quite upsetting. There are tons of kittens and cats that just aren't wanted.

However my position on the matter is, these things happen, it wasn't your fault andI'd love to see the kittens!


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## Dhambizao (Dec 1, 2011)

wow I so didn't expect this level of bitchy "look-at-me-on-my-high-horse" attitude. Acting catty won't change the past, and I'm pretty sure she's learnt her lesson, so err.. how about people cool it so we can get to some cute kitty pictures????


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## ebonymagic (Jun 18, 2010)

Erm, 

Accident, unplanned, irrisponsible. Yes, maybe. But

The OP has realised the error and is now trying to sort her kittie.

There were a lot of things going on at the time. Its not like it was deliberate, she didn't warn the builder with her fingers crossed behind her back.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but surely there are better ways than getting angry and taking over a thread.

It bugs the hell out of me that there are so many unwanted kittens in rescue centres, then people let their non pedigree cats breed and then wonder why they can't find them homes.

The biggest problem is the young cats and old cats and black cats, not kittens.


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## Sabrina2012 (Jul 29, 2011)

OMG I can't believed how unsupportive this site is towards people that do not have pedigree litters! So biased. The kittens are obviously fine and healthy and not about to die from diseases.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Sorry to change the slant on this thread yes this lady has realised her mistake and is looking after her kittens very well, yet there's a pedigree breeder that posted her kitten pictures in cat chat not breeding I wonder why?! Looking at her website this cat also gave birth to kittens in 'early summer' as she calls it, was put to stud again in September and recently had kittens again and wonders why the labour was so long!!!

I foolishly bought 2 dogs 7 years ago that were KC registered thinking that KC was in place to stop interbreeding god knows how wrong I was. Looking at their bloodlines it was amazing how one dog appeared so many times just over 5 generations. Both have problems cost us hundreds and hundreds of pounds in training and special food.

Going back to cats. So is it ok for pedigree breeders to go on breeding all these litters that they have, yes they are flea and wormed properly and most vaccinated before they go to there new owners and may be a contract put in place to make sure cat is spayed/neutered. How many really are? Because that contract is not worth the piece of paper it is written on.

How well are the homes/people vetted at the end of the day? Pedigrees/ Moggies are in rescue, in fact there is specialist rescue centres for pedigree cats, probably because some people cannot be bothered to groom their long - hairs or like the look of their cute little faces when they are kittens and when they get older don't like them anymore, or this pedigree cat develops an ailment and is not insured, it's alright giving 4 weeks pet insurance when you buy the kitty but how many people can afford the premiums. Are breeders telling said potential owners that it can between £10 - £20 a month to insured said kitty.

Sorry rant over but I think an apology should be given to Loubs, cos I think Pure bred breeders have their head up their a**e as well.

Sorry if I upset anybody but that is my view, I feel sorry for a cat having to go through 2 pregnancies and 2 births in 1 year, would you want to? If it was humanly possible? I think the answer would be NO.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

_Two litters so close together - _
Not good. Unfortunately not all pedigree cat breeders are as good as they should be.

_Going back to cats. So is it ok for pedigree breeders to go on breeding all these litters that they have ... may be a contract put in place to make sure cat is spayed/neutered. How many really are? _
The vast majority. I'm not saying that pedigree cats are or should be more cherished than a mog, but paying a considerable sum for a pedigree cat tends to focus the mind when it comes to not allowing the cat to stray/escape, particularly prior to neutering.

_How well are the homes/people vetted at the end of the day? Pedigrees/ Moggies are in rescue, in fact there is specialist rescue centres for pedigree cats, probably because some people cannot be bothered to groom their long - hairs or like the look of their cute little faces when they are kittens and when they get older don't like them anymore, or this pedigree cat develops an ailment and is not insured, it's alright giving 4 weeks pet insurance when you buy the kitty but how many people can afford the premiums. Are breeders telling said potential owners that it can between £10 - £20 a month to insured said kitty._
Of course there is an element of pedigree breeders who do not vet homes as carefully as they should. However. far more prospective homes ARE properly vetted by breeders for pedigree cats than for moggie litters (rescue organisations aside). You're obviously not suggesting that moggies are somehow less important and homes need not be so carefully vetted? The vast majroity of people who buy a pedigree cat can and do afford insurance; that tends to be because they've been able to afford the purchase price in the first instance. Or they put money aside each month just in case.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I think Pure bred breeders have their head up their a**e as well.


It isn't about whether the cats are pedigree or not. It's about the rules, the care, the expenses etc. that breeders of pedigree cats are subject to. It's about a level playing field and buyers being misled by people claiming their non-ped kittens are some sort of rare cross breed or the like. If someone chooses to mate their non-ped with another specific non-ped, do all the testing I have to do, raise those kittens to 13 weeks, pay for vaccinations, register them so there is a registration document showing exactly what a buyer is getting then fine. Many pedigree breeds are hybrids and all have evolved over time.


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

Just what i was trying to say you couldn't have put it across any better,thats why breeders dont let there kittens go to anyone just to left to let them bred with any old tom,they only let them go to like minded breeders prepered to put the time,research and money into it. Breeders put alot of time and money into doing all the relevent blood test and making sure they are kept safe so they dont pick up diseses from any tom. It's not all about AHHHH when a picture is posted of new kittens.It's about the queens welfare.


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## jay_bird (May 24, 2011)

Sabrina2012 said:


> OMG I can't believed how unsupportive this site is towards people that do not have pedigree litters! So biased. The kittens are obviously fine and healthy and not about to die from diseases.


and how exactly would you know that they are disease/illness free when even the OP doesn't have the faintest idea who the father was, let alone what ilnesses or genetic defects he has?

doh !


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## Dhambizao (Dec 1, 2011)

jay_bird said:


> wow I so didn't expect this level of "look at me and my stupidity" attitide. we can all consult google images for cute kitty pictures, no need to support irresponsible breeding just for pictures, so how about you take a hike?


I don't know about you, but I don't really like conflict, and this thread is a whole big mess of conflict that consists of a load of angry people repeating the same points over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I'm pretty sure the OP got the message several points ago, if not right *at the very begining when she in fact acknowledged the mistake she'd made.* I know people feel very passionately about this, and rigthly so, but how many times are you really going to shoot someone down who already feels bad and admitted she made a mistake?


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## jay_bird (May 24, 2011)

Dhambizao said:


> I don't know about you, but I don't really like conflict, and this thread is a whole big mess of conflict that consists of a load of angry people repeating the same points over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I'm pretty sure the OP got the message several points ago, if not right *at the very begining when she in fact acknowledged the mistake she'd made.* I know people feel very passionately about this, and rigthly so, but how many times are you really going to shoot someone down who already feels bad and admitted she made a mistake?


If you don't like the discussion, then feel free to leave it.

It's not "shooting someone" to point out that something they state as fact is a load of rubbish.

Sabrina2012 has no way whatsoever of knowing these kittens are "fine and healthy and not about to die from diseases" when she (or the OP owner of the cat) have no way of knowing who the father is or what illnesses or genetic disorders he carried.

If people refrain from making stupid unfounded statements, I will refrain from pointing out their stupidity.

Happy now?


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## Dhambizao (Dec 1, 2011)

jay_bird said:


> If you don't like the discussion, then feel free to leave it.
> 
> It's not "shooting someone" to point out that something they state as fact is a load of rubbish.
> 
> ...


So the general jist of the comment above is "I am an obnoxious idiot who does indeed love confrontation" ? Great, glad we got that one cleared up.

I'm not saying you're wrong, to be completely honest I mainly agree with you. I'm just saying there's a limit to how much of this the OP will soak in. I mean after a while the comments just get repetitive and silly.

So yeah, you have an excellent point, what you're saying is true, but you don't have to be such an ass while saying it.


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## Dhambizao (Dec 1, 2011)

jay_bird said:


> oh dear, noooo, I rattled your cage  nothing I like more than making those who proclaim themselves to be non-confrontational to start throwing around words like ass, obnoxious and idiot. Pity you can't agrgue a point without resorting to insults, your type never ever can though.
> 
> I will repeat, if you don't like this discussion, feel free to leave it anytime you choose.
> 
> ...


well if being rational doesn't work... 

I threw out a few names there purely because I cannot stand your type of person. Obnoxious really is the only way to describe it and I don't really see it as name calling, I see it more as stating obvious fact in this situation :rolleyes5: ..however I may retract "Idiot" and possibly "ass". 

I'll take your advice and leave this thread well alone. Apparently asking for help when you've made a mistake gives people licence to mock and insult and go on and on and on about everything but the advice the OP needed. Obviously in your mind this is the way forward. In my mind, its hitting a brick wall. :mad2:

Finally, I perhaps shot a few names out in frustration, but you're general way of speaking to people, particularly the OP, is much ruder and fowl =/ So if you disaprove of name calling, maybe rethink your whole attitude.


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## jay_bird (May 24, 2011)

Dhambizao said:


> well if being rational doesn't work...
> 
> I threw out a few names there purely because I cannot stand your type of person.


the deep breaths didn't work then?



Dhambizao said:


> Obnoxious really is the only way to describe it and I don't really see it as name calling, I see it more as stating obvious fact in this situation


since the deep breaths didn't work you may want to try something like valium, you are after all the self-professed "non confrontational type". I hate to see you so wound up.



Dhambizao said:


> I'll take your advice and leave this thread well alone.


ok, bye then



Dhambizao said:


> Finally, I perhaps shot a few names out in frustration, but you're general way of speaking to people, particularly the OP, is much ruder and fowl =/ So if you disaprove of name calling, maybe rethink your whole attitude.


rethink my attitude based on the silly emotive rantings of someone like you? what a laugh. I would have to have a tiny bit of respect for you or value your opinion to reconsider my attitude, and in case you haven't noticed - I have neither.

Bye!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

closing this til I have time to look at it....Jill


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

OK i have now re-opened this post after going through it, and i will ask if we can avoid the bickering thats going on in threads like this, yet again a new member has come into the forum seeking advice only to be given abuse this now has to stop. New meembers are joining the forum and being driven away by some of the replies, in this case it was a genuine mistake and a cat owner looking for advice. .......Chris


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## Loubs (Nov 14, 2011)

Thought I would add to the end of this thread before I close my account.

My cat was shut in one of our large bedrooms during the day when the builders were here. The builder went in to bleed the radiator and she slipped past him like Speedy Gonzales. It wasn't a case of her just wandering around the house aimlessly waiting for an opportunity to escape.

The kittens are all healthy and have been checked over by my vet. I don't like the way that, just because I am not a cat exhibitor and pedigree breeder that it is assumed that I wouldn't want to do what is best for my cat and that I would not be in a financial position to do whatever is necessary for my pets. 

They are all being wormed/flea treated/innoculated (when the time comes)/fed high quality food and being given all the love and affection that they could wish for. I'm not sure what else you expect me to do at this point as I don't have the use of a time machine?

I am leaving this forum now as I came for help and advice from what I thought would be helpful and knowledgeable breeders. It seems that people are more eager to be judgemental than actually offer the advice that is needed.

Luckily I am in a position to get all the help and advice that I need from specialists. I just hope that that someone less fortunate isn't in a similar position with kittens and has now decided to 'go it alone' after reading some of your very spiteful comments rather than asking for help.

Thankyou to those who have been helpful and friendly to me.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_i am glad that mum and kittens are doing well,it sounds like you are doing your very best for them. its a shame you are leaving,_


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

Loubs said:


> Thought I would add to the end of this thread before I close my account.
> 
> My cat was shut in one of our large bedrooms during the day when the builders were here. The builder went in to bleed the radiator and she slipped past him like Speedy Gonzales. It wasn't a case of her just wandering around the house aimlessly waiting for an opportunity to escape.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry that you are leaving, I'm also sorry that people were nasty to you. I'm glad the kittens and mother are OK.

Just to stand up for the forum a bit, 12 out of 20 people in the thread were clearly helping you and being supportive, 4 out of the 20 were being nasty and judgemental and the other 4 where neutral. So please don't tar us all with the same brush 16/20 of us were being really nice!

are you still leaving despite most of us being ok?


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

I think leaving the forum may be the wrong decision but in the end its your decision finally..but i will say that most forum members are very helpfull and are usually more than willing to offer advice and help to new members...good luck whatever you do and best wishes to your cat and her kittens...........Chris.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

It does seem a pity that you are leaving but it is your decision - good luck with the kittens.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Why does this always happen? Someone asks for help and the kittens/cats potentially end up suffering because people are too busy screaming from their high horse to look at the bigger picture. 

Not that I expect these kittens to suffer but should you have a question later on then likelihood you won't be asking here given the reaction you've received, which I don't blame you for feeling that way.

I hope you cherish this time and good luck.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh don't go! I got your Visitor Message but got sidetracked so didn't get to reply. Thanks for the link to your kittens but unfortunately I don't have Windows Live so couldn't view them.

I hope I was kind and friendly to you. Please stick around. Heck when I was new I nearly got a one day ban because something I said was taken out of context or it was said hypothetically (at leas that was what I was trying to get across at the time lol) but I just put it down to experience and moved on to the next post.

Heated threads soon get forgotten x

ps Post those pics on here!


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

I've been around here for about 2 years now and trust me, this was tame . 

Most of the responses you received were helpful and friendly and nice. You cannot expect on an internet forum for every single person (especially in such a controversial topic) to reply in a warm, fuzzy way. People are very passionate about certain topics and they will speak their mind. They will say things here they might not say if you were face to face (although I'm sure many would have the integrity to do so). But don't leave in a huff because you didn't get 100% support. Life doesn't work that way, and certainly internet forums don't. Especially when there are SO many times where someone comes on, hasn't bothered to ever get their cat fixed, and then an "accident" happens and they expect everyone to coo endlessly over the kittens. 

People have grown cynical because most of those owners of cats are plain irresponsible, but don't want to own up. Then there are the true accidents--they do happen--but it's tough to know who is lying, who is a fool, and who is genuine. Long work in rescues makes many of these folks especially upset to boot. I was thinking about this the other day--the unfairness that innocents die because there is nobody to love them. And when people just let their pets breed or fail to have them spayed or neutered, then how many more will die because there are that many less homes out there? *That's* why you get those negative responses. You might have been party to a misfortune, but so many in the same situation caused the misfortune through their own inaction or worse. Hope that helps put it all in perspective for you


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

Ooh, that's really well put. I love it when someone says what I sort of was thinking but hadn't been able to express well enough to post.


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> I've been around here for about 2 years now and trust me, this was tame .
> 
> Most of the responses you received were helpful and friendly and nice. You cannot expect on an internet forum for every single person (especially in such a controversial topic) to reply in a warm, fuzzy way. People are very passionate about certain topics and they will speak their mind. They will say things here they might not say if you were face to face (although I'm sure many would have the integrity to do so). But don't leave in a huff because you didn't get 100% support. Life doesn't work that way, and certainly internet forums don't. Especially when there are SO many times where someone comes on, hasn't bothered to ever get their cat fixed, and then an "accident" happens and they expect everyone to coo endlessly over the kittens.
> 
> People have grown cynical because most of those owners of cats are plain irresponsible, but don't want to own up. Then there are the true accidents--they do happen--but it's tough to know who is lying, who is a fool, and who is genuine. Long work in rescues makes many of these folks especially upset to boot. I was thinking about this the other day--the unfairness that innocents die because there is nobody to love them. And when people just let their pets breed or fail to have them spayed or neutered, then how many more will die because there are that many less homes out there? *That's* why you get those negative responses. You might have been party to a misfortune, but so many in the same situation caused the misfortune through their own inaction or worse. Hope that helps put it all in perspective for you


That was really well put


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## marleyboo (Oct 24, 2011)

Loubs said:


> Thought I would add to the end of this thread before I close my account.
> 
> My cat was shut in one of our large bedrooms during the day when the builders were here. The builder went in to bleed the radiator and she slipped past him like Speedy Gonzales. It wasn't a case of her just wandering around the house aimlessly waiting for an opportunity to escape.
> 
> ...


<< im thinking this lady didnt have to come here and have her wrist slapped....but she did come for advice on what is best for these animals so whilst people are squabbling over how naughty she was not to neuter... were not all perfect

i almost had a scare with my lovely girl hubby left the window open she was around 5 months old... she came back several hours later for weeks i panicked around 3 weeks later i took her to the vets(she was due to be neutered after the weekend) luckily she wasnt and is now neutered.

im sure this lady is well aware there are many many cats and kittens sitting in rescue homes...but like she said it was an accident mistake?... give her a break.

wishing you all the best with your kitties dont be put off with negative comments good or bad everybody is entitled to their opinion , ultimetly everybody is talking within the best interest of the kitties xxxx


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Alaskacat said:


> Ooh, that's really well put. I love it when someone says what I sort of was thinking but hadn't been able to express well enough to post.


Awww shucks, thanks .


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## *Camelia* (May 12, 2011)

Dhambizao said:


> wow I so didn't expect this level of bitchy "look-at-me-on-my-high-horse" attitude. Acting catty won't change the past, and I'm pretty sure she's learnt her lesson, so err.. how about people cool it so we can get to some cute kitty pictures????


The cat forum is renowned for it....especially from the pedigree breeders! :frown2:


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

*Camelia* said:


> The cat forum is renowned for it....especially from the pedigree breeders! :frown2:


Really, which ones? I feel positive they wouldn't mind you mentioning their user names.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

*Camelia* said:


> The cat forum is renowned for it....especially from the pedigree breeders! :frown2:


I don't think that it has anything to do with pedigree breeders or not. I think anyone who feels a litter could have been prevented would say how they felt.

Accidents happen but its our job to take responsibility for them.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Like I said before there really was no point in repremanding the OP for the accidental litter. She wasn't to blame here because she had the welfare of her cat at heart. It annoys me when someone gets flamed for things "after the horse has bolted" what does that achieve? The OP took responsibility for what happened. Little baby kittens have been born all healthy and fine by all accounts and I am still waiting for those pics Missy Loubs :cornut:


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Iheartcats said:


> Like I said before there really was no point in repremanding the OP for the accidental litter. She wasn't to blame here because she had the welfare of her cat at heart. It annoys me when someone gets flamed for things "after the horse has bolted" what does that achieve? The OP took responsibility for what happened. Little baby kittens have been born all healthy and fine by all accounts and I am still waiting for those pics Missy Loubs :cornut:


It was her 'fault', she owned a the cat for a year before she thought about neutering it, if she kenw she was calling and had buliders open and doors open, buy a crate, leave the cat in a cattery, let friends take care of her, so many options to prevent what happened.

She could have neutered it as soon as she got back, but decided not to. So its her responsibility and her choice to let her have the litter, she could have easily neutered her and no foetus would have been present no sperm meeting eggs, as another poster said it isnt killing kittens as there arent any to kill, Its like people whose dogs mate and wont get the mi-mate even thought they have only just mated, as its 'killing pups' well, it isnt as the 'pups' dont even exist yet!

I dont think anyone was nasty here, most breeders were giving out info to if other people join in this situation. If everyone just went 'awww cute kittens pictures!!' Then how do we get information across that it isnt right?

Just seems to be the people who arent given the advice or words that they want to hear that get annoyed. and I wish people wouldnt use the word 'accident' as they arent accidents. No wonder this forum is dead lately as all the expereinced people arent giving advice as they get attackedfor speaking their mind, I thought thats what a forum was?


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

I think this thread has run its course to be honest with you. We could go back and forwards arguing the toss on who is responsible or not but I re-read the original post and I kind of wish the OP didn't give the lowdown or background on how the kittens came about because the main part is this:

"Tilly is currently eating Natures Best Dry Kitten food along with other extras and some wet food. What wet/dry foods would you recommend for her and what foods should I wean the kittens onto? I want them to have the best start in life". 

The fact that kittens were born because the builders let the cat out is somehow irrelevant.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

catlove844 said:


> I dont think anyone was nasty here, most breeders were giving out info to if other people join in this situation. If everyone just went 'awww cute kittens pictures!!' Then how do we get information across that it isnt right?
> 
> Just seems to be the people who arent given the advice or words that they want to hear that get annoyed. and I wish people wouldnt use the word 'accident' as they arent accidents. No wonder this forum is dead lately as all the expereinced people arent giving advice as they get attackedfor speaking their mind, I thought thats what a forum was?


I was just commenting on this very phenomenon here this morning. I'm not referring to the OP at all, but just in general, the trend lately. Someone comes on and has a pregnant cat and it was an "accident". It's like the really experienced people have just given up and don't comment. Then there's a slew of "Ooooh, can't wait for kitten piccies, so excited for you" messages, and if one or two people happen to mention anything that's instructive that's along the line of "maybe get the cat spayed if she's not too far along", then it's called flaming and personal attacks. Worse yet are the recent threads about sick cats. I've seen any number of threads that express the cat is super ill, has diarrhea or something similar, is lethargic, whatever--obviously needs a vet. But the first 3 or 4 responses will be "oh, poor kitty, hope it feels better soon". No "get to a vet" for a while, and when someone does say "get to a vet now, why are you posting on the internet", then that's ever so harsh.


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## jay_bird (May 24, 2011)

of course the experienced people have given up when they get messaged right left and center by the mods warning to ban them if they dare express and opinion that isnt coated in 16 layers of sugar and prefaced with the words "aw hun its not your fault". Some of the so called "advice" I see in this forum is ...... terrible. But that can be expected when the experienced people are silenced.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Experienced people are not banned for the sake of it and advice can be given by anyone - sugar coated or not.
There really is no point in beating someone about the head though when they have obviously left. This thread has definitely run its course and I am closing it as it has now just become the usual argument over how to respond to a post.


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