# rough collie dissapointed



## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

hi every 1 iam new to this site , :blush2: well the thing is i have a rough collie he is 8month old we have had him from 9wks old. we love him dearly got him thinking the rough collie would be a great breed to have as a familly dog.  he done some thing terrible he stole a bit of lego of my 6 yr old naturaly he tryed to get it back of him my 6yr old shreeked ,,, our dog snapped at him . was very upsett he realy hurt my 6yr old he snapped him across the face : then just the other day i was wipeing gently his face and he snapped at me on the hand not content with that i stroked him on the head shortly after and he had another snap : . i am gutted is this something that can be stopped he is only 8mths old what can i do i am now very warry of him and i dont want to be i want to trust him .?????? any ideas please,


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

take him to the vet to be checked out he might be in pain or have an illness


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2012)

i`d be seeing a vet and looking at getting some professional advice in , have a look at the Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK for a behaviourist in your area. don`t think these things should be diagnosed over the internet


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

I'd get him checked by a vet to make sure there's no physical problem then speak to an APDT behaviourist for advice specific to you and your dog.
One important thing though - do NOT leave your child and dog together unsupervised at any time and until you get proper advice for this behaviour do NOT let your child touch or go near your dog's head as the dog is obviously not happy with this and it's not worth risking a proper bite.


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## unicorn (Jan 13, 2012)

Sometimes I get the feeling if you don&#8217;t do the proper English or if you are not from this country that you are not as much in for a welcome. It is not easy to write in a foreign language some times it is even harder to write in you own language isent it? not every one can be perfect! If it is to irritating for you that someone cant do the proper queens english I might have to stop here, it takes me quiet some hard work to write this. If more people think the same way maybe they should come forward and let me know


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

Oh Unicorn we can see you are from Germany so we do understand that you could have problems with our funny way of spelling some words. I think posters places of where in the world they live would be a good idea.


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

weather the original poster is genuine or not I don't know(and don't really care). I dont have a problem with bad grammar so long as some effort has been made to communicate. There are lots of reasons why some one may have bad grammar, and judging people only on their grammar is both petty and narrow minded. 

As to the OP, two thoughts come to mind 1) you should teach your child not to take things from the dog (whether the dog took them first or not) and 2) your dog at 8 months old is the equivalent of a young teenager, they are still learning how to interact with the world and part of that learning is to push the boundaries and to see what happens. If they growl at you how do you react? Do they get what they want? What if the bite, do they get more of what they want? If they are good what happens, do they get what they want 

Now is one of the most important times in dog training, if your unsure of how to train your dog, or if you just feel like you need support in doing it then I would consult a dog trainer.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

unicorn said:


> Sometimes I get the feeling if you dont do the proper English or if you are not from this country that you are not as much in for a welcome. It is not easy to write in a foreign language some times it is even harder to write in you own language isent it? not every one can be perfect! If it is to irritating for you that someone cant do the proper queens english I might have to stop here, it takes me quiet some hard work to write this. If more people think the same way maybe they should come forward and let me know


I have the utmost respect for any one who knows English as a second language. In fact my husband is Polish and I have been trying to learn Polish for a while - I take my hat off to anyone with the ability to know more than one language as I am pants at it 

My issue isnt with genuine mistakes - My goodness the amount of times I go back and edit my own posts is crazy but with those who use 'text' language and dont put the effort in.



newfiesmum said:


> That is why they copy and paste someone else's post! I have to say, though, that there are people who unfortunately cannot spell at all and it is tempting to point it out, but that would not be a nice thing to do. You cannot assume that everyone with bad spelling and grammar are chavs, can you?


I would never assume someone is a chav for their writing but there is a difference between someone who is trying and makes a few spelling mistakes and someone who's English is very much street talk so to say. Dober gave some fab examples in her post 



Dober said:


> I dont mind spelling and grammar errors if someone is obviously making the effort, but iz rly hrd 2 reed fing"s wen dey r riten lyke dis , n dey r nt mking da efurt 2 rite , u knw wat i men? :biggrin5:


This is exactly my point :crazy: it confuses your brain and you wonder what planet these people live on. Using abreviations such as 'bein' 'y' 'ur' .


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

my 8mth old rough collie male who i have had from a baby has a terrible habbit he picks things up in his mouth AS PUPPIES DO IE; isnt suppose to, well ok this is the thing when u tell him no drop it or try and take it if him he will snap or snatch it back and it HURTS and now he has big teeth not baby teeth any more  not sure what to do 4 the best or how to stop him snapping .. but...... thats not all he done it to my 6yr old son the other day he tried to get 1 of his toys of him , but it was across his eye nearly in the eye i was angry and worried aswell and then again he done it to me on the hand also any sugestions please ???????? thanx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Was just about to head off and spotted your thread. I did a similar post for somone with a Border collie yesterday. Although was specifically tailored for them, it was the same problem a Border collie growling and snapping over certain toys and bones, so all in all very similar as I havent got time to type it all in entireity tailored for your situation the information is there that will help so Ive copied and posted it for you.


For some reason he seems to feel that he needs to guard and protect them. 
It also sounds like he may not have had a lot of early socialisation and handling by people either. The problem is the more that you try to take them the more guarding he is going to be as he feels that more and more he needs to protect them so it ends up as a vicious circle and gets worse until it will end up in a bite.

You need to get him used to the fact that you being around things that he values or his food insnt a threat. Usually best way to start this to give him lower value things and keep the toys and the bones out of the picture for a few days at least. Stick to toys and other food treats that as far as he is concerned are OK, but ones he doesnt highly prize and guard so much.
Once he has them offer, treats in return, the treats need to be higher value then what he has, high value treats are usually cheese, chicken, sausage, hotdogs, anything thats liver based. When he has something offer the treat in exchange, he should as the treats are higher value then what he has, be interested in them, as he drops the article in favour, say drop, repeat drop and give the treat instead and also praise him for the "swop". Practice this as a training exercise and keep doing it regularly several times a day.

Another thing that you can do when he is eating his dinner, is to stand at a distance he is confortable with initially and not reactive, and throw some treats in his direction so that they land by his bowl. Done at every meal you should be able to over a period of time, be able to work up so that you can actually approach nearer and nearer to give him the "extras" until you can actually place it next to the bowl and eventually even add it to his bowl. This must be done at his speed, if he reacts anytime you have got too close too quickly so take a step back.
In these ways he should learn that he doesnt have to protect and guard what he has, as you approaching and getting near means that he gets more stuff in fact not take it away.

Once he seems Ok with the lower value toys and food and chews, then you can repeat the exercise with stuff he values more once he is confident and more trusting of you.

Ouch or a loud pitched yelp doesnt always stop dogs. It depends on how well he learned bite inhibition in the litter with mum and littermates. In fact a yelp and high pitched sounds can gee some dogs up more.

Biting and nipping is a form of play in the litter. Pups can also use it to gain attention. As a collie they can be particularly mouthy as they also nip to move sheep so their mouthy instinct is often more then other breeds.

To stop nipping you can do several things,
If its jumping up and nipping hands, fold your arms turn your back and as you are doing it say OFF, keep turned away, and totally ignore him, no further speaking eye contact nothing at all. Stay that way until he has stopped and stayed calm for a minute or two. Then you can give attention again. Normally I also say once turned just walk off an leave him too it to calm down and ignore him, then once he has stayed calm then call him get him to sit and then reward with a treat ans attention. As he nipps at heels though the walking away may not work. Just stop dead still if he goes after heels, that day you shouldnt be a moving target thats more exciting.

If he doesnt cease anytime. pop him out in another room and leave him for a few minutes to calm down, then let him out but ignore him to make sure he is still going to stay calm and stop nipping. Then call him get him to sit and then give a treat and attention.

Basically any nipping mouthy behaviour doesnt get him anything, when he stops and stays calm then he gets attention and treats. It may take time and everyones got to do it, but eventually if you do it properly he should work it out.


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

hi i dont no what is happening hear am i getting accused of some thing... is some 1 taking the peee  i am a new member and i am clearly asking for some advice i didnt expect to get abuse i do not have 2 user names i am a bit of a tecno phobe and can barely work this 1 already i have to say this is clearly not a very warm welcome !!!


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

hi thank you for youre reply yes the method we have been using is to put him out time out we call it he hates this and i think knows he has done wrong just want to nip it in the bud while he is still young we have had him from 9wks old he is used to kids. and dosnt growl he is not threatening just snatching back i think??? hummmmmmmmm thanx for taking me seriously i posted this on another forum earlier dog chat i think? and now find myself being bulied over it am put of posting any more i am a genuine person just looking for advice didnt expect to be bulied over it thankyou any way for taking time to help x


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

fredfern said:


> hi thank you for youre reply yes the method we have been using is to put him out time out we call it he hates this and i think knows he has done wrong just want to nip it in the bud while he is still young we have had him from 9wks old he is used to kids. and dosnt growl he is not threatening just snatching back i think??? hummmmmmmmm thanx for taking me seriously i posted this on another forum earlier dog chat i think? and now find myself being bulied over it am put of posting any more i am a genuine person just looking for advice didnt expect to be bulied over it thankyou any way for taking time to help x


If you have a problem carry on posting. Unfortuanately the world is full of smart a**es and know alls, but not everyones like that and there are plenty on here who are always happy to help if they can. So please dont be put off.
Everyone had to start somewhere Ive made enough mistakes over the years myself.


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

McKenzie said:


> Erm, is this the same person posting from 2 different user names?
> 
> Edit: Oh just noticed they've just copied the last few lines of the original post, and they have done the same on another thread. Reporting now.


can some one just tell me what is going on and why i seem to be getting bulied for simply seeking some advice ?? x


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

???? can some one please explain


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

thank you for youre kind words x


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

There are 2 people who have just the same words exactly in their posts, you and another member. That suggests either you are fake, or a fake person has copied and pasted your question.

If you are happy you are genuine, I suggest sorting it out via a mod.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I can recommend a book called "Mine! A Practical Guide To resource Guarding In Dogs" by Jean Donaldson. Very easy to read and gives you an understanding of what is going on, plus step - by - step guides to help you tackle the problem.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

it was someone else who has been banned that copied and pasted the OPs post... So the OP of this thread is not believed to be a fake. So along with me please welcome them and offer your advise...Thanks


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

FAKE i am not  i have a family and a very hectic life and work hard why would i waste my time posting fake things ? i am simply seeking some advice ? and some kind words instead i am very upsett by all the other peoples NASTY threads and feel very bulied if you ask me thease people should be kicked off THIS SHOULD NOT BE ALOWED ok sorry rant over thank you for youre kind words any way


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Welcome fredfern. Hope you get the advice you are looking for, though I would look into what the others have suggested about getting a trainer.

Also Emmaviolet who has already commented will hopefully share her knowledge of being a Rough Collie owner. 

(Think another owner of the breed has also commented, but not sure without checking lol)

Edited to add: It was bobbie I was thinking of, going by the photo 

Another edit: Seems there has been a tidy up, so the post I referred to by emmaviolet has been removed. Like canuckjill has said hopefully she will see this thread and and there was a case of you having your question stolen by a now banned member.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Sorry fredfern, hopefully the collie people and trainers will see this thread again and offer their advise. I apologize for the confusion . Please if anyone sees something that is copied and pasted and its not the opening post please instead of commenting and causing confusion hit the report button....Thank you


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Hello...welcome to the forum ..sometimes it gets a little crazy on here..but most of the time its a nice place to be..sorry that you seem to have got caught up in the craziness bit  

perhaps re-posting your thread in the training/behaviour part of the forum you may get more help there x


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> Hello...welcome to the forum ..sometimes it gets a little crazy on here..but most of the time its a nice place to be..sorry that you seem to have got caught up in the craziness bit
> 
> *perhaps re-posting your thread in the training/behaviour part of the forum you may get more help there* x


I would mention this thread if you do follow the above advice.

I would hate you to post the same question in another section and be accused of being fake by people who were aware of the mix up, but not the fact you are the real person due to not be up to date with this thread.


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

thankyou very much every one yes i have put it in the behavior bit i think sorry i am just finding my way around yes i am hoping to get in contact with other rough collie owners thanx again all of this trouble and some of the nasty things that was said yes i am not the best speller ect but hey theres more to life like health my familly work and my gorgeous dogs ha/ha x


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

fredfern said:


> thankyou very much every one yes i have put it in the behavior bit i think sorry i am just finding my way around yes i am hoping to get in contact with other rough collie owners thanx again all of this trouble and some of the nasty things that was said yes i am not the best speller ect but hey theres more to life like health my familly work and my gorgeous dogs ha/ha x


Pictures...we must have pictures 

please stay around ..xx


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

I echo paddyjulie's comment, photos are a must and you need to stick around.

You just joined up at the wrong time. There seems to have been an influx of fakes joining up in the last few days, who copy and paste either other peoples questions off here or off other pet related forums. 

As you can guess that makes a few people suspicious etc of new people and can sometimes result in the wrong person being accused.

I myself have not been a member long, but I can assure you this is a friendly forum, despite your first impressions


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

fredfern said:


> thankyou very much every one yes i have put it in the behavior bit i think sorry i am just finding my way around yes i am hoping to get in contact with other rough collie owners thanx again all of this trouble and some of the nasty things that was said yes i am not the best speller ect but hey theres more to life like health my familly work and my gorgeous dogs ha/ha x


I will add my apologies and welcome you to the forum. We do get a lot of new members simply copying and pasting from other posts (heaven knows why) and as already said, it is difficult to know the genuine one. A bit like copying someone's work at school; who knows who copies who?

Anyway, as to your original question, you very first port of call should be the vet. If the dog is in any pain around her mouth or head area, this could cause a reaction when approached. She could be teething?

Do not allow your child to take anything from her, even if she has stolen it in the first place. This is a very dangerous thing to do.

Once you have had her checked by a vet and know that she is not in any pain, it might be an idea to teach her to "leave it". This is easily done by swapping whatever she has for something of higher value to the dog, i.e. if she has a toy, swap for a piece of cheese as an example. Use the word leave it as soon as she lets go of the toy.

She is also at the age where dogs do "try it on" just to see where their boundaries lie. It does not mean she is being dominant just being a normal adolescent really.

Once again, welcome and sorry for any confusion.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

hi there, sorry people thought you were faking!!!

anyway i think you will have to teach a drop it command and employ it everyday so he learns it quickly.

my rough alfie steals everything but will now drop it on command.

i dont think your son should of pulled it out of the dogs mouth as its not a good idea in my opinion. also lego should prob be played with away from a puppy as they are usually in to everything!!!

its not really in their instinct to snap unless very threatened, they are highly sensitive around the face and especially ears so i dont know if he got hurt there when your son took the lego back and is now frightened it may happen again, as they are sensitive it doesnt take much for them to keep it in their head.

pics are a must though!!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

posted in the dog chat!!!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I am going to merge the 2 threads together into the training section to make it easier for all concerned


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

If anyone sees something else to be corrected or deleted please pm me...Thanks Jill


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

great tips guys yes i just wanted to know how to teach the leave or drop it comand and my son will never take any thing back off him now he has learned that lesson the hard way. also my pup isnt ill either and dosnt need a vet he has done this thing since he was tiny just couldnt get him to drop/leave wanted some tips on training him this comand, before is becomes a problem. and pics will come hopfully when i find my way around a bit better thankyou all x


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

not sure how to use the dog chat yet ha/ha/ha still finding my way x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

fredfern said:


> great tips guys yes i just wanted to know how to teach the leave or drop it comand and my son will never take any thing back off him now he has learned that lesson the hard way. also my pup isnt ill either and dosnt need a vet he has done this thing since he was tiny just couldnt get him to drop/leave wanted some tips on training him this comand, before is becomes a problem. and pics will come hopfully when i find my way around a bit better thankyou all x


Nobody is saying that he is ill (sorry I called him a she before), but he could have a problem with his teeth or his ears. You did say he snapped when you tried to stroke his head. It is always worth having the vet take a look.

I am so glad you have accepted our apologies and decided to stick around.


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Nobody is saying that he is ill (sorry I called him a she before), but he could have a problem with his teeth or his ears. You did say he snapped when you tried to stroke his head. It is always worth having the vet take a look.
> 
> I am so glad you have accepted our apologies and decided to stick around.


aha na he was anoyed with me for wiping his face he had somthing on him an no he isnt in any pain he thought i was going to wipe him again when he saw my hand coming towards him tut/tut. and he has always been stubborn in a sence when he has got somthing in his mouth he isnt suppose to have tut/tut BUT ON A LIGHTER NOTE HE STOLE A SOCK WHILE MY SON WAS GETTING DRESSED SO I SIMPLY GOT A TREAT AND SAID LEAVE AND HE DROPPED THE SOCK AND TOOK THE TREAT SO I AM GONNA KEEP ON WITH THIS IN THE HOPE WE CAN RID THIS SNAPPING HABBIT thanx for your concern x


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

maybe say drop when you want him to drop something and then you can teach a leave command for when he is about to pick something up.

ps. rough collies are very stubbon when they want to be, they dont oblige blindly!!!!!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

fredfern said:


> aha na he was anoyed with me for wiping his face he had somthing on him an no he isnt in any pain he thought i was going to wipe him again when he saw my hand coming towards him tut/tut. and he has always been stubborn in a sence when he has got somthing in his mouth he isnt suppose to have tut/tut BUT ON A LIGHTER NOTE HE STOLE A SOCK WHILE MY SON WAS GETTING DRESSED SO I SIMPLY GOT A TREAT AND SAID LEAVE AND HE DROPPED THE SOCK AND TOOK THE TREAT SO I AM GONNA KEEP ON WITH THIS IN THE HOPE WE CAN RID THIS SNAPPING HABBIT thanx for your concern x


Personally Ive found that when they actually have something, its better to show the treat, as they go to drop in favour for the something better, Say the Command drop, repeat drop and then give the treat.

I also teach leave, this is handy for when they havent got something, but are eyeing up something to grab, or going for it, if you teach it well you can actually stop them picking it up on a lot of occasions. If they still do then you have the Drop still, it gives you a double whammy and two chances.

I taught mine leave by first teaching a reliable sit and wait, this is good as it teaches impulse control and gives you control too. With sit you give the treat when bottom hits the floor, once he has a good sit, you can builld it too wait, by instead of treating straight away, you say WAIT and then giving the treat. You can then build it up to a longer wait by, repeating wait and the giving the treat, and from there, pause for longer and longer between the word wait and actually giving the treat. So he is literally waiting for it. Use this with his feeding, putting a lead on and going out the door too.

Once you have taught the reliable sit and wait, I used to put a treat (start with a lower value treat for this exercise unlike the Drop/Swap) you want to set him up for success so you dont want a too high value treat in this case.
Make it something he likes but is not his favourite or at first anyway, it can be some of his kibble even. As said I usually put a terat in front of them while they are doing the sit wait, cover it with my hand and say leave, repeat leave, uncover it and then say take it. You should even after awhile be able to have him sitting and waiting, put the treat down cover it, say leave, uncover it, repeat wait, step back and then say to him Take it with practice.
Its something you can build up to extending the training exercise. When he gets good at it, then you can up the anti testing him out with things that are higher value.

As said Leave and Drop gives you a double chance. Because of his problems though I would immediately work on, the Drop with the higher value treats swop technique. I would also work on a good sit and then a good wait. That will really help too. Then when you have got these and he is better. Then work on your leave command maybe. You cant do it all at once its better to work on things slowly.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi there,

Welcome to the forum! My 8 mth old pup is essentially a working BC with a teeny bit of lab. She has been with us since she was 8 weeks and we did all the training recommended to help her be comfortable around food and toys and chews. But we made the mistake of giving her rawhide only to learn she was a gulper; so we panicked and took it off her quickly when she was younger.

We gave it back about 6 weeks ago, and all was well until she got a plastic plug out of the wall. Didn't get leave it in time I had to try to get her to drop but to no avail even with treats thrown down. before that almost had to wrestle her to the ground.. (joke)

she then started resource guarding her ordinary food and chews, some toys and even her bed. I have the food bowl down pat now, can even tell her to leave it, and she will (before I tell her to take it). Not for long, but work in progress!! However, she still guards chews ferociously so I don't give them to her. She has antler horns which cause little risk - i am relaxed around them and so is she, strangely! I am now using them in play as well - fetch and drop - and that is helping. With her bed, I just make sure that I am near it, and can move it etc. She does come bolting in from time to time when I am doing this, but I just make an "Ah ah" noise and she backs off very crossly!

We haven't got it sorted by any means and as far as I know resource guarders usually transfer their guarding from one thing to another, so I am watchful and now hopefully ahead of her??

I know it's a really tough problem as have been living with it but hopefully you will get good tips on here. TBH I have found that my pup knows when I want something off her badly - look of panic in my eyes that she is going to hurt herself - and that tends to stop her dropping it. I like the idea of throwing lots of the same object down as then it looses it's value, and also thanks for the book tip. MUST ORDER PRONTO


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

sometimes it's all about acting like you don't care what they have and going off and doing something interesting somewhere else. The hardest part is not letting them see how upset or panicked you actually are.


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

awah thanx guys he will respond to sit and wait and other commands ect,,, yes perhaps i am better using drop and leave comands ... and yes rough collies are stubborn VERY :biggrin5: thease new comands might stop the snappy crocodile ha/ha ( to be fair he dosnt do it alot ) its all about teaching him whats exceptable i supose he is still a baby .


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

yes very stubbon, they know their own minds.

also what someone said is perfect i find with alfie. if you worry and scream it just means he thinks he should eat or swallow it quicker, if you calmly do the drop, practise with toys and a bone etc then when you ask calmly they are more willing to give up the prize then if you are screaming!

where are the pics btw??!!!!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

With my resource guarder I found that simply staying at a distance while he had his meal or was chewing on a bone or had something else he'd guard and tossing him really yummy things such as little pieces of cheese or cooked meat helped to teach him that me being around while he was eating was nothing to worry about. Once he was comfortable with me being in the room I moved a step closer to him and tossed yummy stuff in his direction. Once he was happy with that, a step closer. Repeated this until I could be right by him while he was eating dropping yummy things next to him. Shadow had had 9 years of being aggressive around food so it took a couple of months to reach that point! With Rupert it took just a couple of weeks and we quickly reached the point where he'd look up from his food, wag his tail and wait to see whether I had anything for him. 

I'm teaching Spencer to trade at the moment. He has a habit of picking up anything left within reach and running around with it. Obviously he wants to play so chasing him isn't a good idea, that's just going to make it fun! What I do is grab a treat (or a toy), offer him the treat/toy, say "swap!" when he drops whatever he has and give him the treat. As he learns the command I will start to ask for the item before showing him a treat but still give him the treat for giving up his treasure. I practice with his toys too so that I'm not only asking when he's got something he shouldn't have.


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## fredfern (Feb 17, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> yes very stubbon, they know their own minds.
> 
> also what someone said is perfect i find with alfie. if you worry and scream it just means he thinks he should eat or swallow it quicker, if you calmly do the drop, practise with toys and a bone etc then when you ask calmly they are more willing to give up the prize then if you are screaming!
> 
> where are the pics btw??!!!!


ahha i will try and put some on .


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