# Queen stay with stud for only 1 day???



## Faye G (Jul 10, 2020)

Hello,

In the next two weeks I will be breeding my gorgeous cat for the first time (and only time, and then she will be neutered), she is 2.5 years old. 

The lady I’m using for her stud has said to let her know when my queen shows signs of being in heat again, and she is happy for me to collect the stud the morning after informing her, for the day & then to return him the afternoon after. So my queen and the stud will be together for approx 28 hours, so just over a day. 

She is charging me the same as other breeders are advertising, and most breeders will keep the queen for 3-5 days. I would rather it be a 1 day process, but I’m just curious as for why breeders keep the queen for up to 5 days if it can be done in 1?
The breeder has recently had an accidental (her queen had recently given birth and sadly lockdown delayed the neutering process!) litter from that stud which has produced 5 kittens. So I know he is a proven stud even when there is a lack of opportunity. 

My question really is that would having a stud and a queen together for 1 day vs 3-5 (ie the whole heat duration) be less effective. Is the 3-5 days to ensure pregnancy. Whereas 1 day is more hit and miss? Is a 3-5 day stay more likely to result in a larger litter? And a 1 day stay a smaller litter?

Just after a bit of advice really. I’ve fully done my research on pregnancy, kitten care etc. I have had kittens before. However the actual getting pregnant part I’ve never been very knowledgable on as my previous cat was an outdoor cat, who had an accidental pregnancy! 

Thanks!!


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## Faye G (Jul 10, 2020)

Thanks in advance x


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Why would you plan to only breed her once? She is older than usual for a first litter.

Has she been fully health tested for the breeds requirements?(not a vet check)
Has she been shown?
Is she registered active? likewise all questions for the stud.
For what purpose is she being bred?

Have you got a mentor?


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## Faye G (Jul 10, 2020)

Hello, 

She was purchased as a family cat with the potential to breed (active). However, I personally don’t agree with using a queen continuously to breed from. I know it’s what’s done to improve the breed and I do not oppose it but I just personally don’t want to breed her multiple times as she’s a family cat not a ‘breeding cat’ despite her status. And the advised optimal breeding age is 2 & she is 2 years 3 months so just delayed it slightly due to covid. As didn’t want to breed her in the height of the pandemic. 

She is active, unshown, health checked etc. 

Same for the stud. 

Do you have any advice on the stud. Ascetically he’s gorgeous and has all the checks etc. Which is why I’m going through the trouble to ask all of the questions and not just choosing one based on the days kept. Etc. 

Thanks


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

The arrangement you have with the stud owner is bizarre to say the least. Studs don't like to be removed from their territory and they can freak out. A stud who feels unsafe and needs to defend himself is a sight to behold and your queen could be in very real danger, as could you. I don't know why anyone would take such a risk with their stud .... or their queen.

Cats are induced ovulaters, they only release eggs after they have mated enough to raise the luteinizing hormone level. They usually require several matings within a short period to do this, and matings after ovulation boost viable sperm numbers increasing the chance of success. Ideally a queen should be mated over 48 hours or more. The reason most queens are at stud for 3-5 days it's because they take around 24hrs to settle in then are mated over the next two to three days before going home. The mating process is violent and a decent stud owner will want to be sure the queen has been well mated and the stud indicates the deed is done, while the safety of the two is maintained. A stud owner earns their fee, they don't bum around at home letting someone else do the work.

It is possible for a queen to be mated and become pregnant within a 24hr window, but the method proposed would significantly reduce that likelihood I'd have thought, as cats need to be comfortable with each other to mate as it is a time they are both vulnerable while being within each other's space.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Not sure what 'health checked' means. I don't know what breed she is, but waiting that long suggests MCO or maybe RAG. Both those breeds have some suggested DNA tests at Langford, but have you checked there to see what Langford adviseses for her breed? I would call those health tests, a visit to the vet I call a health check.

https://www.langfordvets.co.uk/media/2166/genetic-diseases-by-breed.pdf

If you have no experience with a cat kittening etc., I also recommend reading the articles on this page at iCatCare:

https://icatcare.org/advice/?per_page=12&categories=cat-pregnancy-birth

One day of mating can be easily be enough, but the stud owner should allow a free return if she doesn't get pregnant. Of course if you go elsewhere you won't get your money back. They should also require a FIV/FeLV snap test within 24 hours of her going to stud. Breeders often keep girls for several days as they can go out of call on their trip to the stud, and even if it looks to us like she is in full raging call, it can take a day or two for them to get used to each other & start mating.

However:


Faye G said:


> she is happy for me to collect the stud the morning after informing her, for the day & then to return him the afternoon after.


That is MOST unusual in the UK. A lot of boys won't perform away from home, and you need suitable accommodation for him while he is with you given he is likely to spray everywhere, plus studs can be dangerous, plus if you have other cats they will get upset if he is in the house. Personally I think that unless you have a stud house in the garden this is a most unsatisfactory arrangement. She is also avoiding any of the costs & work of looking after your queen. A friend's queen peed on all the bedding as soon as it was replaced when she was at stud, the stud owner had the washing machine on 2-3 times a day to keep up with it...

I went into breeding with a background of fostering pregnant cats & their kittens, I still find it extra stressful as I have chosen to get my cat pregnant, it wasn't someone else. My personal advice would be to spay her and enjoy her as a pet.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

As Tigermoon has said, it is a bizarre arrangement both in terms of the stud being at your house and the duration. 

If you're going to do this I would urge you to find a stud owner who does things properly and can advise you on not only the health checks that you mention that apply to all cats pre-mating, but the essential breed specific tests that must also be carried out.

Can the breeder of your girl help with advice on studs?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> My personal advice would be to spay her and enjoy her as a pet.


I agree.

Breeding takes years of mentoring, learning and dedication. It's extremely hard work, not something to just play about with, with a girl bought as a pet with no real intentions.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

It's also worth pointing out you are more likely to have problems with very large or very small litters. 3-4 kittens is ideal IMHO.


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## Faye G (Jul 10, 2020)

Hi, 

Thanks all for your comments. 

I know the arrangement is bizarre. The reason he is coming to me is the lady who has the stud has recently had kittens from him. And she has said she does not want to upset her queen & that he will likely be defensive of the queen and the kittens and she has stated mating would be more difficult should my queen go to her. He is a family cat as well as stud. And for this reason lives in a house with multiple children. So I cannot see him being violent and dangerous? I will see if she will allow me to take him for longer, or whether she would allow my queen to stay with her. 

If he does come to me, in regards to spraying!?!... I’ve never had a male that’s not been neutered. Would purchasing felaway cat diffusers help? Is there anything to reduce the spraying? I’ve recently got a new sofa and rug so I would rather these not get sprayed on!!! 

Additionally, I by no means want a large litter. I did not mean for it to come across as that. I would be happy with 2-4. 

I am breeding for the main reason of keeping 1-2 kittens from the litter, I also have 2 family members interested in kittens, as my girl is honestly has best temperament, she’s amazing. I am not breeding her for the money, as I do not need it, this is my sole intention. 

Thanks for the help!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

What breed are the cats?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Studs can become different animals when a queen in call is around, even with people they know. I've seen a photo on FB of the damage done to a friend's hand by her normally placid stud.

Personally I think her arrangements are totally bizarre, and would avoid her and her stud like the plague. He won't be defensive of the queen & kittens but probably will of his territory.

A few studs don't spray in their normal surroundings, but most of those probably will do so in a different place. Feliway will make no difference at all. And it's a total cheek for her to charge full stud fee if you do all the work and take all the risk.

And sorry I can see no reason to breed her. The kittens might not have her temperament, there might not be any kittens, there might be far more than you have homes for, it might go horribly & expensively wrong.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I have studs that live in the house, they never 'accidentally' mate my girls, or get territorial of kittens as they are never in a position to be, they are housed securely. 

If i had a visiting queen she would be no where near my own queens or kittens.

The more explanations given the stranger things sound.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> <snip>
> Can the breeder of your girl help with advice on studs?


This, that is if you are still intent on breeding her.

The more I hear about your chosen stud the less I like what they are proposing. It's one thing to lend a stud to someone with experience of them and suitable accommodation, it's quite another to lend one to a total novice like yourself.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

OrientalSlave said:


> My personal advice would be to spay her and enjoy her as a pet.


Agree.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

I have brought a stud to my house (I bred him and he lives with a friend) he never sprays at home, but he started spraying as soon as he smelt the girls in call in my house.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Faye G said:


> The reason he is coming to me is the lady who has the stud has recently had kittens from him. And she has said she does not want to upset her queen & that he will likely be defensive of the queen and the kittens and she has stated mating would be more difficult should my queen go to her.


This has to be one of the most nonsensical excuses I have ever heard a stud owner to give. Even if he were to live in the house as a pet, he should not have access to a queen with young kittens anyway!


Faye G said:


> lives in a house with multiple children. So I cannot see him being violent and dangerous?


A stud's instinct is to hold a territory and control the females within it. Taking him out of that space will throw him, no matter how good he is at home. You'll be amazed at how powerful a 5-6kg cat can be. Studs spray to mark their territory. The minute he arrives in your house the floodgates will open and believe me it stinks. There is no way to stop a stud from spraying other than neuter him, Feliway will not work, and it can make some cats aggressive.


Faye G said:


> I am breeding for the main reason of keeping 1-2 kittens from the litter, I also have 2 family members interested in kittens, as my girl is honestly has best temperament, she's amazing. I am not breeding her for the money, as I do not need it, this is my sole intention.


I've heard this given as the reason to breed so many times and honestly, it is a very poor one. It is also an expensive way to obtain new pets for friends and family. Temperament, while important, is just one facet of the decision to breed an animal. If you really, really must breed from this girl then please go to a breeder who will take the girl in to stud and has the welfare of both their stud and your queen at mind. Studs are really not for the inexperienced and if you miss the warning signs, which start off subtle, then you will find yourself very quickly out of your depth.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

@Faye G your thoughts?


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## Faye G (Jul 10, 2020)

Hi all,

I’ve decided on a different stud!

Thank you for all your help x


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

You really don't realise the issues weren't just with the stud? :Banghead


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