# Spite pooping..



## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

She's been doing it for a while now but its getting silly.

Scorcher will poop out of spite....at first I thought she couldnt possibly be pooping out of spite but watching her...she does!

About a month ago I was doing a christmas shoot of the hedgehog Scorcher sat by my side watching, she had been for a hour walk just 30 min's before hand. She went for the hedgehog, I told her no and off she went into the hall and pooped everywhere.

I put it to the back of my mind but today my mum turned up and I let Kai see her, Kai ran and jumped on me for a hug and Scorcher walked out the room...pooped everywhere then ran into the room pooped again then jumped onto the sofa were I was and pooped.

If we go out anywhere we have to put her in a crate because we trusted her in the kitchen she opened the door (which she can do very fast) and pooped EVERYWHERE...stepping in it....dragging it onto our bed...sofa, carpets, window ledge....we were only gone 20 mins and she had 2 walks that morning ofr a hour a time, which she poops fine on.

Shes so well behaved until she gets jealous or spiteful.
We crate her to stop her pooping all over the house and she poops in the crate the second we put her in despite going for countless walks, then I have to bath her because she rolls in it...

I am losing my mind here....


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Have you had her to the vet about this yet?

It may not be obvious to you, but if you read that back to yourself ... she's pooping whenever there is stress, or anxiety. She may have problems with her bowels and it only takes a little of the above to set it off.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> Have you had her to the vet about this yet?
> 
> It may not be obvious to you, but if you read that back to yourself ... she's pooping whenever there is stress, or anxiety. She may have problems with her bowels and it only takes a little of the above to set it off.


She has anal furunculosis which means pooping is not something shes quick at doing and is on medication for it. We have been to the vet with it and he thinks its related to jealous and rivalry with the others animals although the other dogs get put away at night and she gets full run of the house and spends all day everyday with me.

I could put it to stress as she does get very very upset when I leave. But I am at a loss as what to do. She wont let a trainer come within a mile of her because of the abuse she suffered.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I agree with the above poster.. all stressful situ's


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> I agree with the above poster.. all stressful situ's


What can I do? Never hug the other dogs? 

I am so stuck for idea's...


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Oh I see! Well I'd hardly say she was doing it in spite hun  Poor love.

I'm not sure what to suggest I'm afraid. Is the condition not curable?

Actually I've just re read what you put ... so she is on meds to make her go poop quicker? Can her meds not be adjusted so it's not quite so easy?


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> Oh I see! Well I'd hardly say she was doing it in spite hun  Poor love.
> 
> I'm not sure what to suggest I'm afraid. Is the condition not curable?
> 
> Actually I've just re read what you put ... so she is on meds to make her go poop quicker? Can her meds not be adjusted so it's not quite so easy?


Even with meds it takes her 15mins to poop on average.

The condition is not curable no....its only treatable and even then most dogs end up being pts. So far so good though the vets are happy shes living a comfortable life.

I just dont see whats stressful about Kai or a hedgehog getting attention.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I obviously haven't had a chat with a dog, but don't think it's possible for them to be spiteful, agree with the other posters about possible stress/anxiety.

Tau won't poop in front of other dogs, she jumps over the wall down on to another lawn to poop in peace, she's such a laydeeee  She's certainly not doing that to try and be naughty, because she's such a mummy's girl and hates it if I do my growly voice at her. But obviously she needs to poop, and wants to do it in privacy, so her brain over-rides her desire to please, and she jumps the wall to poop in peace, but not to try and be naughty, hope that sort of makes sense. :lol:


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Even with meds it takes her 15mins to poop on average.
> 
> The condition is not curable no....its only treatable and even then most dogs end up being pts. So far so good though the vets are happy shes living a comfortable life.
> 
> *I just dont see whats stressful about Kai or a hedgehog getting attention*.


You really don't? It's quite simple really hun ... they are getting the attention she wants/needs.

If it takes her 15 mins to poop how is she doing it in her crate straight away when you put her in? Do you not see her start and get her outside straight away? Or any of the other scenarios you mentioned ...


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

It sounds like she is a rescue if she doesn't like trainers? Maybe something bad happened to her related to them giving attention to another dog? Could you cuddle the other dog and then give her a treat, so she associates it with good things?


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> You really don't? It's quite simple really hun ... they are getting the attention she wants/needs.
> 
> If it takes her 15 mins to poop how is she doing it in her crate straight away when you put her in? Do you not see her start and get her outside straight away? Or any of the other scenarios you mentioned ...


Yeah, it usually takes her 15min's but when the 2 incidents happened with Kai and the hedgehog she did it within seconds and out of the room so by the time I got to her she had done it. I took her straight outside but then she came back in because she had already done it inside.

The crate...well.. 
We put her in litrally before we leave. We went out the other day and we put her in, Scott had to nip back in to grab the keys before we left and she had already pooped and rolled in it it had been a minute if that. And that's what she keeps doing.

I have started taking her to shops with me because I dont like bathing her as she gets upset but she wont let me go in shops...she barks and barks and barks until I go out to her or get told to go deal with my dog. :scared:


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

It sounds like you may have a bit of SA rolled into the problems hun 

If you're only putting her in the crate at times when you leave the house, or when you're going to sleep ... see what I mean?

I think you might have to go back to basics with the toileting tbh. If she is able to go quickly when anxious, then another chat with your vet may be necessary. As I thought the whole point of the meds was to make her go quicker? But if she's able to go quickly like that ...


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

If shes been previously abused as you said and wont let a trainer near her then perhaps any people who come she treats with distrust even your mum I (think it was you said) Even just saying no with the hedgehog there might have been something in your voice you werent even aware of that triggered something even if it was just mild annoyance to her because of her past it might seem more threatening, dogs do pick up on the slightest tension.

Also I notice in your signature shes 10 now and part GSD have you noticed any of her behaviour becoming vague, they dont always realise as they get older either the need to go to the toilet, so with her medication,stressful situations and being an older dog maybe she doesnt have full control now as the OPs have said.

It might be worth speaking to your vet and seeing what he thinks,there might be things to help with the stress like Zylkene which is natural or dap products
(both of which you can get on line and natural) Or if shes is getting a touch of Old dog syndrome thats making things worse then there is also things like vivitonin.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I may take her to my new vet as the old one was a bit naff..after telling us she had cancer when she didnt.

We did try crating her at first to stop the clingyness but it takes 2 hours to bath her while shes full of her own poop which isnt nice for her or me.

She loves my mum to bits shes one of the only people she trusts...its men she doesnt like that much.

I will start taking her out every 15 mins like I do with the pups and see how it goes....it just gets to me because she is such a good dog and this lets her odwn.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> She has anal furunculosis which means pooping is not something shes quick at doing and is on medication for it. We have been to the vet with it and he thinks its related to jealous and rivalry with the others animals although the other dogs get put away at night and she gets full run of the house and spends all day everyday with me.
> 
> I could put it to stress as she does get very very upset when I leave. But I am at a loss as what to do. She wont let a trainer come within a mile of her because of the abuse she suffered.


Well how is she going to cope when you get your new doogle? and when you breed?


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Well how is she going to cope when you get your new doogle? and when you breed?


Thing is she was fine with me loving Kai and Alaska when they were pups...but now she poop's...well more with Kai, Alaska cuddles up to Scorcher Kai just wants to hump her..

I think I am going to go back to basics with her....everything start a fresh, going to try and get her to re-associate the crate with good things.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Thing is she was fine with me loving Kai and Alaska when they were pups...but now she poop's...well more with Kai, Alaska cuddles up to Scorcher Kai just wants to hump her..
> 
> I think I am going to go back to basics with her....everything start a fresh, going to try and get her to re-associate the crate with good things.


Having another dog wanting to hump another I can see as being quite stressfull when they were pups Scorcher would have been top dog.. obviously is she is being humped now and she takes it she isn't... She may not be happy with the situ of the other dogs.. As they are adult and can now stick up for themselves and get you attention as she needs it.. 
And its amazing how stress can make you go the toilet extremely quick..


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Having another dog wanting to hump another I can see as being quite stressfull when they were pups Scorcher would have been top dog.. obviously is she is being humped now and she takes it she isn't... She may not be happy with the situ of the other dogs.. As they are adult and can now stick up for themselves and get you attention as she needs it..
> And its amazing how stress can make you go the toilet extremely quick..


Aye...

Tbh Kai seems to be a humpy dog...he humps my cats. He even had his willy out at my mum. Cant wait to have him fixed.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I think her issues stem from her home environment hun.. xxx

And I would ask myself these questions..

What do i do to stop the humping...

Is Scorcher happy with the other dogs...

How will she be with my new one.. will my prob get worse

How will she cope with pups..

Im just checking you did say you were getting another end of Jan.. am i right in that?


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> I think her issues stem from her home environment hun.. xxx
> 
> And I would ask myself these questions..
> 
> ...


Feb.

And yeah, I know. I am going to start a fresh with her, it isnt a issue with the dogs its a issue in general. She does it over humans too....christmas day she pooped on my OH's mums carpet because I was talking to his mum and we had litrally just walked in, the other animals were not there they were out.

Unless I put myself in a little box with no humans, no animals just me and Scorcher then she wont be fully happy. Its like right now shes curled up with Alaska and a cat....but if I go over there and give them a stroke she will not be happy.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

I would agree with the other's comments about possible link to stress as the behaviour seems to be cued by stressful situations.
Dogs don't really do spite TBH. 

Might be worth giving the vet a ring to check if anything medical might be involved?


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2010)

Thanks, I will get her off to the vets and start crate and house training from scratch. Old dogs can learn new tricks.


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

Just reading through your posts and trying to look at the problem from another angle there are two things that stand out to me.

First you say that she is on medication to make it easier for her to go, presumably because it is normally difficult? Would it be possible that the dosage of this medication is not quite right, and that a combination of stressful circumstances (as she perceives them to be) and a touch of her age along with this medication are making her lose control?

Secondly think about what is making her perceive these situations as stressful. You say that she appears to become jealous when you show affection or attention to other people/animals which she obviously craves herself, so to avoid upsetting her you are giving her more of your attention and affection, which is then reinforcing the behaviour.

Just observations, hope it helps.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Maybe she was stressed at your mums?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

It is not that unusual for a dog to poop inappropriately when stressed. It is something that some dogs do when left alone - but Scorcher seems to be taking it to extremes so you do need to get the vet to check her out and to think hard and long about how you are keeping her and whether you can change anything. If nothing can get changed and the problem persists or gets worse then you have to wonder if she is having a happy life.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Thing is she was fine with me loving Kai and Alaska when they were pups...but now she poop's...


Looking at your other thread about Scorcher. You got her back in July 2008 and she licked you for the first time a few months ago.
That suggests to me that when Alaska 14 months old and Kai 8 months old were puppies, Scorcher wasn't properly bonded to you. It's possible that Scorcher was ok with you fussing those 2 because while you were doing that you were leaving her alone. Now things have changed and she enjoys the attention and is stressed when you give it to the other dogs rather than her.
I personally wouldn't get another dog while I had unresolved problems with an existing dog


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

I agree entirely with Hawksport here. It would be a massive mistake for you to get another pup while poor Scorcher has these problems. They aren't problems that are going to be fixed by February either IMO.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Saw This Thread as it bought back something that happens to me when Grooming There's one Dog a Bichon which we Groom and He Always poops all over the Table during Grooming... The owner laughs it off as ''Him Being Spiteful and getting his own back at me'' It's Obviously becouse he gets rather nervous .... I Really Do Not think dogs think like this i.e doing things out of spite.

Seem to me that Scorcher would have been prefered to be a lone Dog in the Household so that he gets all the Attention..I Don't know is background but he's obviously been abused in some way and he seems to need 100% reasurrance from you that he's still safe ''Bless him''.....He seems to be very insecure and unsure.

No fault of his own of course. It's due to everything that happened to him BEFORE you owned him.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

Scorcher seems to be dealing with a lot of stress, nervousness and seperation anxiety in the home, which results in her pooing as attention-seeking/stress. In my opinion, you have your work cut out for you considering you have a number of dogs. *I would really think hard about getting your other dog in Feb though*. It may not be what you want to hear, but from what you've told us, the last thing you want is another dog who'll most likely get a lot of attention.

At the moment, as you say, go back to basics and try to build positive associations with everything: the crate, giving attention to other dogs etc. It will be a slow process at her age, but unfortunately, it won't be fixed quickly. For the moment however, give your other dogs less attention when Scorcher's in sight. This could help reduce the chances of her building stress and pooing everywhere.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

And don't forget until your puppy is House-trained He'll be pooping all over the place too....And you seem to be getting stressed with Scorcher doing it....So the more stressed you are the more stressed He'll be.

I Agree that another Dog Especially a Very Young puppy will be too much for Scorcher..A new puppy naturally needs all your attention so it will result in even more attention being taken away from Scorcher It will make his problems worse....

You will have another if your Heart is set on though No matter what advise you get on here..

BUT I do predict that in the middle of Feb....You be posting for more advise.......

''Asking how to cope with Scorchers probs as they've got Worse since having a new puppy''


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> She has anal furunculosis which means pooping is not something shes quick at doing and is on medication for it. We have been to the vet with it and *he thinks its related to jealous and rivalry with the other animals*, [even] though the other dogs get put away at night and she gets full-run of the house [plus] spends all day everyday with me.
> 
> I could put it to stress as she does get very very upset when I leave. But I am at a loss as what to do. She wont let a trainer come within a mile of her because of the abuse she suffered.


* work on the B-Mod [pet / talk to other dogs, which PREDICTS goody for Scorcher] 
* give her calmatives - see post #22 in the Dog-Body-Language sticky 
* put panties on her - nope, not kidding; reduce YOUR stress.


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