# The crosses are getting worse



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Basset hound/cavalier they just look like basset hounds
Beagle/Weimaraner Still trying to work out the mechanics of that and why the puppies are black?
Not to mention the wonderful guard dog mix great dane/saint bernard . Apparently they will be wonderful guard dogs


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## nfp20 (Jun 29, 2010)

any colour mixed with weimaraner will always be dominant because the grey (red derivative not black as would be suggested by the grey label) is not a dominant colour. Thats why if you see a 'Weimaraner' of any colour except one of the three shades a grey its a cross. Blues for an example are a cross


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2011)

I cant understand crossing a pug and a cavalier... Just begging for breathing problems.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

I was looking earlier (I know I shouldn't!) but there was whippets, GSD's and great danes crossed with poodles!


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

I dont understand why people will pay £400 + for a mutt... 

No offence to mutts!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I was looking earlier (I know I shouldn't!) but there was whippets, GSD's and great danes crossed with poodles!


Shoot me but i've met a whippet x poodle and it was a really nice mix, reminded me of a bedi lurcher :thumbup: i've met two actually brother and sister, i'll get a photo one day, they are a really nice looking mix.

I saw CC's x Sharpei advertised somewhere :scared:


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

PurpleCrow said:


> I dont understand why people will pay £400 + for a mutt...
> 
> No offence to mutts!


It's the same as why people pay £1,000's for pedigrees.

Because they want to :thumbsup:

Each person to their own, some would hand over a million for the dog they think is for them and others are disgusted to pay more than £100 for a dog.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> Shoot me but i've met a whippet x poodle and it was a really nice mix, reminded me of a bedi lurcher :thumbup: i've met two actually brother and sister, i'll get a photo one day, they are a really nice looking mix.
> 
> I saw CC's x Sharpei advertised somewhere :scared:


But there's just.....no need. :confused1:
I mean.....accidents happen dont get me wrong but selling such a "breed" under some stupid name and charging a small fortune is daft. And the rate they are being bred too....soon they will be over populated like staff's.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I saw Stafillon's advertised, I dont know what goes through the minds of some people.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> But there's just.....no need. :confused1:
> I mean.....accidents happen dont get me wrong but selling such a "breed" under some stupid name and charging a small fortune is daft. And the rate they are being bred too....soon they will be over populated like staff's.


I can't remember if they were an accident or not but they really remind me of bedi lurchers (I hold a soft spot for those)

I'm not bothered as long as health tests are done etc and they are within reason/compliemnt each otehr like sibes to mals make a nice mix but something say like a mal to mastiff..hell no :scared:


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> It's the same as why people pay £1,000's for pedigrees.
> 
> Because they want to :thumbsup:
> 
> Each person to their own, some would hand over a million for the dog they think is for them and others are disgusted to pay more than £100 for a dog.


I think rewarding poor breeding of pedigree's or cross's is bad.

At least with a pedigree you get a little bit of paper that means you can check up on your dogs family line, the health, temperament and so on.

And breeding from un-health tested dogs for me is more offensive than sticking two fingers up at all the breeders out there that do all the health tests and refuse to breed until they are done.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> I think rewarding poor breeding of pedigree's or cross's is bad.
> 
> At least with a pedigree you get a little bit of paper that means you can check up on your dogs family line, the health, temperament and so on.
> 
> And breeding from un-health tested dogs for me is more offensive than sticking two fingers up at all the breeders out there that do all the health tests and refuse to breed until they are done.


I agree 

I probably woulden't buy a x, just because i'm not interested, but I was looking at cockerpoo's for my mum as she has a soft spot for them but then decided she'd rather have a westie 

The only mix I do want is a puggle (pug x beagle) but i'd not get one form a breeder for the simple reason I don't trust the cute puppies, I want an adult so I know it doesn't grow up ugly :lol:


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

sadly I dont think it will ever stop because quite simply some people dont want a pure pedigree dog but would like something that "looks nice" I dont know where the idea came from of making up breed names for crosses im guessing it came from the labradoodle that eventually became a breed in its own right, but isnt that how all breeds started? but with the huge selection available today I dont get it.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> I agree
> 
> I probably woulden't buy a x, just because i'm not interested, but I was looking at cockerpoo's for my mum as she has a soft spot for them but then decided she'd rather have a westie
> 
> The only mix I do want is a puggle (pug x beagle) but i'd not get one form a breeder for the simple reason I don't trust the cute puppies, I want an adult so I know it doesn't grow up ugly :lol:


For me being able to trace the ancestors is really important as is health testing which is why I would never "buy" a cross. I would much rather take my risk and rescue one instead.

Anger towards cross breeders on my part is because of what Scorcher has suffered due to poor breeding. I dont mind if they health test and give you a REAL background for your dog. Most cross breeders cant provide this because they will be pet names like "mitzy" and more than likely will have not been health tested further back in their line.

I maybe weird like this but with both Alaska and Kai's line I have made little pedigree's iwth pictures of each relative I can get pictures of and what health tests they have had done...it took me 4 hours but its worth it.:thumbsup:


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Huskeriers

Sharpei x Akita

Bulldog x cocker spaniel

These are what a call bad mixies :scared:


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

SpringerHusky said:


> Huskeriers
> 
> Sharpei x Akita
> 
> ...


i dont think we are aloud to post links anymore?


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2011)

DKDREAM said:


> sadly I dont think it will ever stop because quite simply some people dont want a pure pedigree dog but would like something that "looks nice" I dont know where the idea came from of making up breed names for crosses im guessing it came from the labradoodle that eventually became a breed in its own right, but isnt that how all breeds started? but with the huge selection available today I dont get it.


When most breeds started they were bred to do a job and were not made purely for money.

I think once all breeders start health testing and endorsing pups there will be less problems.

Certain cross's are a no no based purely on health problems of both breeds and I cant possibly think why anyone would breed such a cross unless its for money...


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> For me being able to trace the ancestors is really important as is health testing which is why I would never "buy" a cross. I would much rather take my risk and rescue one instead.
> 
> Anger towards cross breeders on my part is because of what Scorcher has suffered due to poor breeding. I dont mind if they health test and give you a REAL background for your dog. Most cross breeders cant provide this because they will be pet names like "mitzy" and more than likely will have not been health tested further back in their line.
> 
> I maybe weird like this but with both Alaska and Kai's line I have made little pedigree's iwth pictures of each relative I can get pictures of and what health tests they have had done...it took me 4 hours but its worth it.:thumbsup:


Yes, Barney and Dizzy for me were perfect reasons even though I did not get them from breeders they both died too young. My next dog will be my klee kai and the breeder health tests does lots with the dogs etc

I can't bear the heart break of having an unhealthy dog again, Maya i've been very lucky with she's in fantastic health :thumbup:


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

DKDREAM said:


> i dont think we are aloud to post links anymore?


I thought that was only if you made threads for it? :confused1: I have no idea :lol:


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2011)

SpringerHusky said:


> Yes, Barney and Dizzy for me were perfect reasons even though I did not get them from breeders they both died too young. My next dog will be my klee kai and the breeder health tests does lots with the dogs etc
> 
> I can't bear the heart break of having an unhealthy dog again, Maya i've been very lucky with she's in fantastic health :thumbup:


If you stick with good breeders you cant go far wrong.


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## tjk (Sep 1, 2010)

Saw a jack russel x shah tzu ad yesterday they called it a 
Jackshit!


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2011)

tjk said:


> Saw a jack russel x shah tzu ad yesterday they called it a
> Jackshit!


Love it.....:lol:


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> When most breeds started they were bred to do a job and were not made purely for money.
> 
> I think once all breeders start health testing and endorsing pups there will be less problems.
> 
> Certain cross's are a no no based purely on health problems of both breeds and I cant possibly think why anyone would breed such a cross unless its for money...


that would be in an ideal world that all breeders health test. I agree wityh you but doubt it will happen for a long time. Also breeders endorsing puppies wont stop them being bred the only way to stop it is to neuter sadly


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> If you stick with good breeders you cant go far wrong.


Nope, that's why I will no longer buy dogs from adverts but will either go by rescue centre or a good breeder.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2011)

DKDREAM said:


> that would be in an ideal world that all breeders health test. I agree wityh you but doubt it will happen for a long time. Also breeders endorsing puppies wont stop them being bred the only way to stop it is to neuter sadly


I know but hopefully people are a little bit daft and think that they can be done if they breed from a endorsed pup 

I dont agree with young neutering/spaying.:frown:


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> I know but hopefully people are a little bit daft and think that they can be done if they breed from a endorsed pup
> 
> I dont agree with young neutering/spaying.:frown:


me neither but i think breeders may soon resort to this.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2011)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I was looking earlier (I know I shouldn't!) but there was *whippets*, GSD's and great danes crossed with poodles!


whippy-poos lol


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Crosses are so popular now tho especially poodle mixes


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I've nothing against cross breeds really got one lying beside me now. It's these ridiculous mixes people are breeding that are almost guaranteed to have problems basset/cavalier for example that I don't like.


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## critter (Sep 14, 2010)

Hi, reading our local free paper I have listed a *few* of the breeds by some _reputeable_ breeders, Labradoodle F1 (£675), Maltese X lhasa (£?), Bolonoodle (£695), Cavashon (£495), Chugs (£400), Daldoodle (£600), Goldendoodle (£400), OE Sheepdog/Samoyed (£375), like I said a few of the dogs for sale!, no wonder some refer to them as 'frankendogs', what's the next cross going to be??. wayne.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

There was a bearded collie/something with the same kind of coat. I'd hate to do the grooming on that dog

mum is a staff cross pit and dads american bull dog :mad2:. How to guarantee your puppies are going to fall under DDA and probably be killed.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

I love love love my poodle crosses

I also love full breeds too 

However I CHOSE to have 2 crossbreeds rather than full because we like the type of crosses they were.

I would dearly love another poodle cross ( American Cockapoo) but sadly cannot afford to have 3 dogs.

I agree they are expensive though but my two are worth every penny:thumbsup:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It's not about the money nothing against crosses but it's the ones that are going to cause problems in the puppies


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> It's not about the money nothing against crosses but it's the ones that are going to cause problems in the puppies


Yes I agree some matches are not good health wise. Like the breeding of two breeds with breathing problems.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Yeah or a large with small dog so you have a heavy body on small legs. They are clearly just bred to make money with no consideration for the puppies


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I disagree with crossing breeds with massive health problems but there are a few I do really love, more then the actual breed.
For example Ive seen a few Bassett x Cocker spaniels and they have been lovely. Also Pug x Beagles can be pretty nice. All the ones Ive seen resemble the breeds as they were a hundred years ago, without the hugely squashed snout, or extreme dwarfism and too wrinkled skin. Im all for outcrossing to return breeds to their original state and making them fit for purpose.
Even my Chiweenie Hannah benefits from her cross. Although she is Daschund shaped she is a little bit shorter in the body and longer in the leg making her better able to manage stairs/steps/etc.

I just think it should be done with a view to improving the health of breeds not without any thought but money.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I saw pictures of pug crosses they're breeding in Germany to look like pugs but have longer muzzles looked lovely. That was a specific breeding programme though all carefully thought out and all health tests etc. That's the kind of crossing I like or the LUA dalmations for example.


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

Met a guy yesterday who claims he owns a Newfoundland/Weimeraner cross....Massive dog, has the huge newfie features, with a short black/dark dark brown coat.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

We didn't mind paying a lot (not £1000's) for Dillon or Amber because we knew what dog we wanted, and had all the health checks.

A few years back, a women up the road from my Mom's house had a small cross something like a JR. When it was about 12 months old it was taken very ill and rushed to the vet's, where all sorts of tests and x-rays were done. The x-rays showed that although he was a small dog on the outside, the inside heart, liver, lungs where the size of a large dog, all pressing on the rib cage slowly killing it.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Poor thing . Maybe all those breeders breeding border collies with any toy breed they can to get mini agility dogs might think twice about it


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

There's an ad on one site at the moment for great dane cross weimy pups - and they actually state the bitch was the weimeraner! I'm surprised she hasn't sufferened any major damage from the mating or whelping....


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Surely there would be some damage to her during the mating at least?


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> Poor thing . Maybe all those breeders breeding border collies with any toy breed they can to get mini agility dogs might think twice about it


Aslong as they are winning in agility they won't really care what they are crossing. Plenty of small breeds that are good at agility or even small crosses without trying to make ones from big dogs to small dogs.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

No I've seen corgi/bc, jrt/bc, bichon/chinese crested/border collie, pomeranian/bc. It's ridiculous but I guess the border collie obsessives couldn't cope with the idea of no border collies in the mini.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> At least with a pedigree you get a little bit of paper that means you can check up on your dogs family line, the health, temperament and so on.


If only that were true. The "little bit of paper" just tells you the parents, grand parents etc... there's no requirement for any testing so you're not going to be able to tell from the "pedigree". Unfortunately a lot of people think the "little bit of paper" is some sort of guarantee so will pay more if their dog comes with it..


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

KC doesn't guarantee health sadly some people do think that. Pedigree papers and full health tests etc is the best.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> KC doesn't guarantee health sadly some people do think that. Pedigree papers and full health tests etc is the best.


It should be the case that you cannot sell a dog (at all - moreover as a 'pedigree') without a minimum set of health tests. These should be laid down by the BVA / Governement not the breed clubs or KC. The tests should be based on vet experience, known issues with the breed (or cross) and should include DNA/bloods for hereditary diseases. Commercial DNA testing is becoming cheaper and at the end of the day the dogs health is the sole important thing here. I would happily pay more for a dog that had been properly health tested.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

That would be fantastic very hard to police or persuade people that health tests are only for show dogs or that breeding a cross doesn't automatically make it perfectly healthy


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## the melster (Mar 20, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> When most breeds started they were bred to do a job and were not made purely for money.


I agree .. but how many actual working dogs are being bred now and how many breeds have been altered beyond all recognition to comply to somebodies idea of how they should look. Many of the pedigree dogs today could not complete the work they were originally bred for.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Yeah all those HPR dogs that work and go into the showring, the huskies and malamutes that work in harness on a regular basis, the working breeds that compete in working trials/water trials/carting. Not all show dogs are crippled wrecks . Some breeds are terrible I'll agree with you on that but a lot of those have working lines as well the american cockers maybe don't.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

critter said:


> 'frankendogs',


That should be the KC's nick name :lol:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*For what its worth i don't think crosses are getting worse.When i was growing up crossbreeds where the norm.Posh people had the pedigree dogs.*


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

The breed mixes are getting worse I think does that make sense? I know mongrels were the norm years ago


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## the melster (Mar 20, 2010)

I didn't say all and I was just responding to the point made which I felt was an invalid statement in this thread. I personally love all dogs and can't see why we have to divide them into 2 camps. I see very few threads with people pulling pedigree dogs to pieces and many where people seem to play the 'I'm a more moralistic dog owner than you' game and making sneering comments about crosses. We have both pedigree and crosses in our family but to us they are all just very well loved family dogs.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I've nothing against crosses and I certainly don't feel they or pedigree are superior. It's the breeders that let crosses down and don't bother health testing etc some crosses can be very unhealthy


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> The breed mixes are getting worse I think does that make sense? I know mongrels were the norm years ago


*Many moons ago when i was a kid,dogs would roam the streets all day and night.Now if a bitch became pregnant there would be no way on earth of knowing what breed the dad was.The only difference today is imo people can put names to the mum+dad,ie. what breed they are.*


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

there's a 'breeding establishment' near us who regularly advertise an assortment of crosses, many using shar peis, & also staffy/springer mixes
I saw a litter of Rottweiler/cocker spaniels a few moths back, wouldn't fancy a Cock-Rott myself though.....


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I think the jusky terrier crosses are really cute  

to be honest i think aslong as the cross isnt going to cause alot of problems with health then what does it matter?

theres no need? theres also no need for the thousands of labs bred every year, or the thousands of staffs, cavs, yorkie e.t.c bred every year but people still do 

I LOVE cross breeds i doubt we will own a pedigree dog through choice, i like something that not every tom, dick and harry have

Ive had crosses all my life with very little health problems, have known pedigree dogs who have died very early in life or had so many health problems its unreal. 


I would pay whatever i felt was a good price I paid £100 and got buy one get one free :lol: but knowing what i know now about zeb and bear what a wonderful dogs they turned out to be i would pay hundreds more for them.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2011)

Elmo the Bear said:


> If only that were true. The "little bit of paper" just tells you the parents, grand parents etc... there's no requirement for any testing so you're not going to be able to tell from the "pedigree". Unfortunately a lot of people think the "little bit of paper" is some sort of guarantee so will pay more if their dog comes with it..


If I want to check up on how Alaska's family's doing health test wise...all I have to do is go on the Kennel club website and type in their name....

Lets say "Follyfox firecracker" who is Alaska's great granddad all I have to do is put that into the health test bar on the kennel club and it tells me that he is "Eye Disease - Unaffected - 6th September 1991".

That little bit of paper means that I can trace Alaska's family and thanks to the kennel club can find out what health tests were done and the results.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> If I want to check up on how Alaska's family's doing health test wise...all I have to do is go on the Kennel club website and type in their name....
> 
> Lets say "Follyfox firecracker" who is Alaska's great granddad all I have to do is put that into the health test bar on the kennel club and it tells me that he is "Eye Disease - Unaffected - 6th September 1991".
> 
> That little bit of paper means that I can trace Alaska's family and thanks to the kennel club can find out what health tests were done and the results.


But it may say nothing as the tests are not compulsory but this would not affect the "pedigree" or the dog being sold as a pedigree or "pure bred".


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2011)

Elmo the Bear said:


> But it may say nothing as the tests are not compulsory but this would not affect the "pedigree" or the dog being sold as a pedigree or "pure bred".


With my breed CEA tests are compulsory as now are hip scores but DNA CEA is not yet the results are still published onto the kennel club database.

If I was in a breed that had no health test results that were put onto the database I would still hold that pedigree dear to me because of the fact that it could tell me my dogs family, what they have won at shows, kennel names which can be traced to find out who bred the dog/owned the dog and allow me to know more about my dogs line.

Something you cant get with most cross's.

I would much rather know my dogs past than not...with Scorcher I am always trying dreading what horrid illness could be next as we dont know if shes a cross or not we dont know if she will die from the GSD conditions she has or the whatever breed. I would pay good money to any good breeder to be able to do as much as I can to not watch another one of mine go through what she has.

Scorcher's my world.....I love her to bits cross breed or not.

Why are there programs out their like pedigree dogs exposed that focus on some show breeders showing and breeding sick dogs but we have yet to see a program on the poor breeding practises of cross breeders/back yard breeders, we all know there is a very small % of cross breeders who health test dam and sire.

Just because a dog is a cross doesnt mean its free from genetic health conditions and I am disgusted by some of the reasons I have been told by "breeders" such as:

"The parents dont need to be health tested they are cross's perfectly healthy unlike pedigree dogs".

"I charge £700, no parents are not health tested because the pups are cross breeds which dont get health problems".

I HATE with all my heart pedigree breeders and cross breed breeders that do not health test or care what happens to their pups.

But the 1 thing I hate the most is silly excuses to charge daft amounts for something with a weird name from sick breeds and no health tests and no proof the dogs are from healthy lines.

For example pug cross cavalier.....imo that is just daft who would cross such breeds? And why? Both have serious health problems ranging from heart to breathing and SHOULD be health tested yet charge silly amounts for a dog that....I would be surprised if it never ended up with a health problem. (This coming from a cavalier and pug lover).

A large amount of breeds require health testing.

And for those that dont, good breeders will still do certain health tests and good breeders would put a photocopy of the results in the puppy pack. Just because it doesnt go on the kennel club database doesnt mean that the pups owners and the ones after that and the ones after that shouldnt have access to it.

/End rant. :lol:


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Great rant (don't agree with 99% of it) but all I said was that the pedigree (history) does not have to include health tests to be issued/held by KC and the KC do not enforce testing (no one does).

The breed standard published (on the KC website) for your dogs does not insist on any health tests. The breed club (English) code of ethics does not insist on health tests or even recommend them although it does give a passing mention to HD saying that "A number of breeders are now getting their breeding stock hip scored."


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

I have nothing against crosses, both pedigree and crosses are equal in my eyes as they are a dog and they are a life.

However I do think breeds should have a purpose. E.g. Collies are sheep herders who assist farmers, retrievers and spaniels are used to assist on a hunt and so on and so forth. My type of dog, the patterdale is not a breed yet as it still has quite a bit of mix in it. But they were bred for a purpose and they do it well. 

What purpose do these crosses and desginer dogs have? Apart from letting the breeder get a quick fast buck for a fancy name?

Crosses I am not against. Trying to say they are anything other than a cross I am.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Patterdale_lover said:


> I have nothing against crosses, both pedigree and crosses are equal in my eyes as they are a dog and they are a life.
> 
> However I do think breeds should have a purpose. E.g. Collies are sheep herders who assist farmers, retrievers and spaniels are used to assist on a hunt and so on and so forth. My type of dog, the patterdale is not a breed yet as it still has quite a bit of mix in it. But they were bred for a purpose and they do it well.
> 
> ...


I would agree if I didn't think that "companion" was a purpose and if there weren't a dozen different type of gundogs and sheep dogs and ratters etc etc.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I would agree if I didn't think that "companion" was a purpose and if there weren't a dozen different type of gundogs and sheep dogs and ratters etc etc.


Okay valid point but you shouldn't be paying more for a cross than a pedigree I am sorry that's just my opinion. Crosses should be £300 max. Having said that some costs of pedigrees are outrageous too.

Yes there are different types of dog in all the groups as they all tend to have different jobs or are specialised in a certain part of their purpose


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2011)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Great rant (don't agree with 99% of it) but all I said was that the pedigree (history) does not have to include health tests to be issued/held by KC and the KC do not enforce testing (no one does).
> 
> The breed standard published (on the KC website) for your dogs does not insist on any health tests. The breed club (English) code of ethics does not insist on health tests or even recommend them although it does give a passing mention to HD saying that "A number of breeders are now getting their breeding stock hip scored."


I am a strong believer that the kennel club should force breeders to health test or not register their pups however what the kennel club are doing is so far is enough for me to support them, such as limiting how many litters come from a bitch, something byb's do not give a poo about.
Limiting how many C-sections a bitch can have. (I know of a "breeder" who breeds cross's 1 of her bitch's had 4 c-sections and on her 5th died).

CEA tests have been in my breed for years and years which have been put up on the kennel club database.

Until cross breeders and BYBs stop:
-Breeding their bitch every season.
-Breeding from un-health tested dogs.
-Making silly claims like hypo-allergenic when they know they are not.

I will never buy a cross or buy from a back yard breeder.
I refuse to watch another dog suffer like Scorcher has.

Only bad breeders would not health test and that...no one can control even if the kennel club forced people to health test there is nothing to stop them breeding un-registered dogs.

But the little bit of paper I have with Alaska and Kai have shown me what my dogs come from (health wise) and pictures, show wins..and that gives me piece of mind knowing that there are good breeders in her line that did care enough to health test.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

By that argument people shouldn't be breeding chis or malteses or american cockers for that matter. They're bred solely as companions. As long as the crosses are healthy why shouldn't they be bred to be sofa hoggers and walking companions


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> By that argument people shouldn't be breeding chis or malteses or american cockers for that matter. They're bred solely as companions. As long as the crosses are healthy why shouldn't they be bred to be sofa hoggers and walking companions


I didn't say that. As I said he had a valid point. But I'm sorry I wouldn't pay about £200 for a companion. Pedigree or cross.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't think crosses should be sold for stupid amounts of money either. That just seems to me that they're breeding solely for money and I would be worried that health wouldn't be a priority if it cost them money


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

What I find astounding is some cross pups are sold more than that of a champion gundogs pups


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It is shocking to see the prices of some but then again some pedigrees are sold for ridiculous amounts of money too


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> It is shocking to see the prices of some but then again some pedigrees are sold for ridiculous amounts of money too


Yes like Chihuahua's and pugs going for £1000, but for what exactly? Yes they are lovely little dogs and have nothing against them but they are soley companions they do not have a real purpose. Valid chi's used to be ratters but I don't think you would see many doing what they were orignally bred for nowadays  Same with the crosses, I'm sure they are lovely dogs and I wouldn't slate them at all, but you can't stick a fancy made up name on it and expect it to go for the same price as dogs with a job and or purpose. Sorry if I upset anyone but that is my view.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Yes like Chihuahua's and pugs going for £1000, but for what exactly? Yes they are lovely little dogs and have nothing against them but they are soley companions they do not have a real purpose.


The majority of dogs are kept solely as companions 

Justification and real purpose enough for most dog owners :thumbsup:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

But most pedigree dogs aren't bought to be working gundogs/ratters/herding dogs/carting dogs whatever they're bought as companions. So people do pay the same amount of money as the person buying the litter mate to go out on a shoot etc. So should say your dad charge the same to someone buying a pet and someone buying a working spaniel?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Yes like Chihuahua's and pugs going for £1000, but for what exactly? Yes they are lovely little dogs and have nothing against them but they are soley companions they do not have a real purpose. Valid chi's used to be ratters but I don't think you would see many doing what they were orignally bred for nowadays  Same with the crosses, I'm sure they are lovely dogs and I wouldn't slate them at all, but you can't stick a fancy made up name on it and expect it to go for the same price as dogs with a job and or purpose. Sorry if I upset anyone but that is my view.


hehehe, my son's just looked over my shoulder & said, 'oooh mummy Bess is lovely!' about your sig pics


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Okay valid point but you shouldn't be paying more for a cross than a pedigree I am sorry that's just my opinion. Crosses should be £300 max. Having said that some costs of pedigrees are outrageous too.


100% with you but then petrol should be about 80p a litre.... the cost is more to do with capitalism than breeding (or maybe the two are linked... from a human point of view anyway).

That said, the health tests (a proper selection for the type of dog) are very expensive so recouping those losses is not unreasonable.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

What I find very telling when looking through the ads is that the "working" type non-pedigree dogs (patterdales, other terrier crosses, lurchers etc) are mostly sold as what they are - no silly names and sensible prices. The ones most likely to be given stupid names and ridiculous prices are the toy breed crosses (cavachons etc), poodle crosses (doodles and poos), and to a certain extent now the butch ones appealing to macho young chavs (masweilers etc).

This to me suggests that they are being marketted at certain types of people - those with more money than sense perhaps? And primarily to make the breeders some money.

In either case though I would still prefer all breeding dogs to be health tested, whether they are going to bred to the same breed or crossed.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

> Yes they are lovely little dogs and have nothing against them but they are soley companions they do not have a real purpose. Valid chi's used to be ratters but I don't think you would see many doing what they were orignally bred for nowadays


Well as far as I am concerned companionship is the highest purpose of all; the loyalty, the love, the devotion, the bond- are these qualities on their own so useless? For most pet owners they are everything.

And they rank far higher than anything utilitarian or "tool like" for me.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> I am a strong believer that the kennel club should force breeders to health test or not register their pups however what the kennel club are doing is so far is enough for me to support them, such as limiting how many litters come from a bitch, something byb's do not give a poo about.
> Limiting how many C-sections a bitch can have. (I know of a "breeder" who breeds cross's 1 of her bitch's had 4 c-sections and on her 5th died).
> 
> CEA tests have been in my breed for years and years which have been put up on the kennel club database.
> ...


Don't get me wrong, I'm not generalising, but the problem is you are. You immediately put all crossbreeders in with BYB. I oppose BYB of both crosses and "pedigree" dogs... but do not make assumptions about those who breed crosses (and I promise not to make assumptions about KC/breed club breeders).

Not all crossbreeders are BYB (as not all "pedigree" breeders are).

Many crossbreeds come from dogs that are not only comprehensively health tested (in many cases, more so than their "pure" relatives due to the misconceptions borne out of the generalisation that all crossbreeders are BYBs) but also have full/extensive pedigrees. Potential buyers are vetted are buy the puppy on a contract giving a lifetime assurance that the breeder will take the pup back etc etc.

So please don't generalise.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

simplysardonic said:


> hehehe, my son's just looked over my shoulder & said, 'oooh mummy Bess is lovely!' about your sig pics


Hehe awh bless him 



Nicky10 said:


> But most pedigree dogs aren't bought to be working gundogs/ratters/herding dogs/carting dogs whatever they're bought as companions. So people do pay the same amount of money as the person buying the litter mate to go out on a shoot etc. So should say your dad charge the same to someone buying a pet and someone buying a working spaniel?


You're not understanding what I am saying  These types of dogs have been bred for years and years and years, starting off with a purpose then breeding out faults. These dogs have worked to have themselves established in todays society and have taken years and years of hard work. So in my eyes it is justification that they be sold for more than a dog that has only been bred in recent years and is not even a breed?

I don't know if I'm waffling or not. I'm not on the ball today :lol:



Amethyst said:


> The majority of dogs are kept solely as companions
> 
> Justification and real purpose enough for most dog owners :thumbsup:


Didn't say it wasn't. :confused1: But dogs that are bred for a purpose eg herders, ratters, gundogs, guide dogs, police dogs, search and rescue etc etc etc should go for more than dogs that are bred soley as a companion.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

jenniferx said:


> Well as far as I am concerned companionship is the highest purpose of all; the loyalty, the love, the devotion, the bond- are these qualities on their own so useless? For most pet owners they are everything.
> 
> And they rank far higher than anything utilitarian or "tool like" for me.


I didn't say that they were any less of a dog. But as they are _just_ companions people shouldnt have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for them :confused1:


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## the melster (Mar 20, 2010)

Can I just say that this is the first thread I have posted in which hasn't decended into a slanging match by this point. It is nice to read other peoples views and debate points without having to look and then not post and think Oh I'll leave them to it. :thumbup:

I wouldn't pay silly prices for a cross and my limit would be £250 but like to pay £150-£200.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

But malteses have been around for thousands of years for example. As ratters and watch dogs and more recently as companions. So why should they be sold for much less just because they don't do that job anymore?


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

the melster said:


> Can I just say that this is the first thread I have posted in which hasn't decended into a slanging match by this point. It is nice to read other peoples views and debate points without having to look and then not post and think Oh I'll leave them to it. :thumbup:


... that's done it :lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Didn't say it wasn't. :confused1: But dogs that are bred for a purpose eg herders, ratters, gundogs, guide dogs, police dogs, search and rescue etc etc etc should go for more than dogs that are bred soley as a companion.


In your opinion 

Personally I can't see why there should be any difference made ...


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> 100% with you but then petrol should be about 80p a litre.... the cost is more to do with capitalism than breeding (or maybe the two are linked... from a human point of view anyway).
> 
> That said, the health tests (a proper selection for the type of dog) are very expensive so recouping those losses is not unreasonable.


I'm sorry but would you go down to the local rescue and pay £400-£1000 for a heinz 57. No you wouldn't. I also find it equally unreasonable to pay a grand for a pedigree so I am in no way targetting crosses.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> But malteses have been around for thousands of years for example. As ratters and watch dogs and more recently as companions. So why should they be sold for much less just because they don't do that job anymore?


Yes they should be sold for less? As I would also think the same if the labrador eventually just became a companion.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2011)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm not generalising, but the problem is you are. You immediately put all crossbreeders in with BYB. I oppose BYB of both crosses and "pedigree" dogs... but do not make assumptions about those who breed crosses (and I promise not to make assumptions about KC/breed club breeders).
> 
> Not all crossbreeders are BYB (as not all "pedigree" breeders are).
> 
> ...


Taken from my post directed to you before:



shetlandlover said:


> Why are there programs out their like pedigree dogs exposed that focus on some show breeders showing and breeding sick dogs but we have yet to see a program on the poor breeding practises of cross breeders/back yard breeders, *we all know there is a very small % of cross breeders who health test dam and sire.*


A great amount of cross breeders do not health test nor feel the need to. As said before I will not buy from any breeder who breeds their dog every season, does not health test and make false claims.



Elmo the Bear said:


> Many crossbreeders come from dogs that are not only comprehensively health tested (in many cases, more so than their "pure" relatives due to the misconceptions borne out of the generalisation that all crossbreeders are BYBs) but also have full/extensive pedigrees. Potential buyers are vetted are buy the puppy on a contract giving a lifetime assurance that the breeder will take the pup back etc etc.


Really? Hm........these many crossbreeders must be well hidden since I could ring up any cross breed breeder on any advert site and arrange to go get a pup tomorrow...no questions asked.

There are very few who health test OR fuss about were the pups are going, just like some pedigree breeders.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

But why? A companion is just as valid a job as a working gun dog or border collie. I don't agree with paying £1000 for any dog be that a gun dog from field trial champion lines that was going to be a working/trial dog or a chihuahua that's going to be an older lady's sole companion. But I see both jobs as equally important.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> I'm sorry but would you go down to the local rescue and pay £400-£1000 for a heinz 57. No you wouldn't. I also find it equally unreasonable to pay a grand for a pedigree so I am in no way targetting crosses.


I personaly wouldn't even pay that for a rescue pedigree! I pay what I pay for dogs because I want to know the history from the pedigree and health tested lines. With a rescue I wouldn't know any of this and if I wanted to know if it was PRA clear etc then I'd have to get it health tested. I'd be happy to pay to get that done on my own if I only paid £150 or something for a rescue but at £400 I'd want the dog tested for me! I also have dogs that I can show but with rescues I couldn't.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> But why? A companion is just as valid a job as a working gun dog or border collie. I don't agree with paying £1000 for any dog be that a gun dog from field trial champion lines that was going to be a working/trial dog or a chihuahua that's going to be an older lady's sole companion. But I see both jobs as equally important.


Because for a companion dog if it is just going to be that a minimum price would suffice. But if you want a dog for a purpose then you would probably pay more to make sure you're getting the real deal., alot of work has gone into these jobs. I am not talking about other pedigree dogs am I? I thought it was about crosses. I don't see the point of paying hundreds and hundreds of pounds for a cross. I got my Patterdale for £100 and I wouldn't pay anymore than £200 for a Patterdale either. I have never said either is equally less important job. I just think if your going to pay any large amount of money for a dog, it should be a dog with a purpose.

I personally think the price of ALL dogs is a bit ridiculous.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2011)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I personaly wouldn't even pay that for a rescue pedigree! I pay what I pay for dogs because I want to know the history from the pedigree and health tested lines. With a rescue I wouldn't know any of this and if I wanted to know if it was PRA clear etc then I'd have to get it health tested. I'd be happy to pay to get that done on my own if I only paid £150 or something for a rescue but at £400 I'd want the dog tested for me! I also have dogs that I can show but with rescues I couldn't.


Couldnt have put it better.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Really? Hm........these many crossbreeders must be well hidden since I could ring up any cross breed breeder on any advert site and arrange to go get a pup tomorrow...no questions asked.
> 
> There are very few who health test OR fuss about were the pups are going, just like some pedigree breeders.


And I could ring up a large majority of pedigree breeders who would answer, to the question "Do you have health testing certificates" - "I have a pedigree certificates which prove they are healthy"... ?? not. And I could take a pup - no questions asked.

I can assure you, if you wanted to, you could easily find a breeder of crosses that would supply you with everything I've mentioned... unfortunately that would kind of burst the bubble a little.

You say ""we all know there is a very small % of cross breeders who health test dam and sire."... how do we "know" that?... we don't, we assume that because enough people on enough internet discussion forums say it ... it must be true.

Now I have a pedigree... 6 generations (although more was available) for both parent sof one of my dogs (a cross). I have hip - elbow - eye - DNA etc etc etc for the parent snad grand parents and a whole host of tests for the other generations. I have a contract that allows me at any time during the dogs life to take the dog back, full refund and the dog will be rehomed... marvellous....

.. so why on earth won't I publicise this breeder???? because the last time I did they got so much abuse from the "establishment" for daring to cross that they almost gave up.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

But a chihuahua/maltese whatever does have a purpose as a companion dog. I'm getting too confused by this now. I wouldn't pay stupid amounts of money regardless of whether I wanted a working gundog/ratter/herding dog/agility dog or I wanted a dog to lie on the sofa beside me and go for walks. I also don't think that the price of the dog should depend on the job they're going to do but on the health of the lines etc. Now I'm going to stop talking about this because I'm confused enough


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> But a chihuahua/maltese whatever does have a purpose as a companion dog. I'm getting too confused by this now. I wouldn't pay stupid amounts of money regardless of whether I wanted a working gundog/ratter/herding dog/agility dog or I wanted a dog to lie on the sofa beside me and go for walks. I also don't think that the price of the dog should depend on the job they're going to do but on the health of the lines etc. Now I'm going to stop talking about this because I'm confused enough


Same :lol: I'm tired so I probably waffled!


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> And I could ring up a large majority of pedigree breeders who would answer, to the question "Do you have health testing certificates" - "I have a pedigree certificates which prove they are healthy"... ?? not. And I could take a pup - no questions asked.
> 
> I can assure you, if you wanted to, you could easily find a breeder of crosses that would supply you with everything I've mentioned... unfortunately that would kind of burst the bubble a little.
> 
> ...


And I wonder how much truth is in these pedigrees you get with crosses? Not alot if what I've saw is anything to go by. Blu's grandad etc are on ones I've saw.. Yes the top winning poodle of all time is going to be used to create mongrels.. I think not. And the breeder is far far from happy her pedigrees are being forged. Last thing they would ever do is cross to something else. Last time someone in poodles done that they more than paid for it. Kicked off of all the breed clubs and hardly spoken to at shows. She done it for a quick buck but she regretted it soon after.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> By that argument people shouldn't be breeding chis or malteses or american cockers for that matter. They're bred solely as companions. As long as the crosses are healthy why shouldn't they be bred to be sofa hoggers and walking companions


I know of a breeder of american cockers who has at least one ex show dog who works as a gundog or has at least done his training and is ready to start working. She no longer shows him so he has had his long coat clipped but is apparently doing very well. He was also successful in the ring


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I didn't know many american cockers worked. The majority are bred as pets/show dogs


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Dogs don't have an intrinsic financial value- it's the same with anything that's sold. Markets, supply and demand. 

I wouldn't pay more for a dog that is, for example, good at killing rats, because it means nothing to me, it holds no value. However great the lineage and prestige of it's working history.... None of that matters to me because I'm not interested. If enough people aren't interested then that drives the market. Likewise but in reverse for something that is popular and is in demand. 

Being skilled at something doesn't count for anything financial unless the person coughing up the $$$ values it.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2011)

Elmo the Bear said:


> And I could ring up a large majority of pedigree breeders who would answer, to the question "Do you have health testing certificates" - "I have a pedigree certificates which prove they are healthy"... ?? not. And I could take a pup - no questions asked.
> 
> I can assure you, if you wanted to, you could easily find a breeder of crosses that would supply you with everything I've mentioned... unfortunately that would kind of burst the bubble a little.
> 
> ...


By all means give THAT breeder all the publicity in the world I am more than happy with a breeder like that. Infact If I wanted a cross I would buy from a breeder like that (If they dont breed every season).

HOWEVER you cant deny the fact that cross breeders are more than frequently not bothered. (This coming from a family that have had cross breeds for years).

What are the bad breeders working towards? Certainly not breed standard or health when they dont health test.

I am in no way saying that there are bad pedigree breeders infact if you read my posts you will see I mention bad pedigree breeders in nearly all on this thread. I hate ALL bad breeders.

But why oh why (please someone answer this) would you cross a pug and a cavalier? I love cross breeds interesting, usually nice dogs. But you cant say its because you want a poodles legs and a cavaliers temperament and you cant even say you will get a certain standard (looks OR temperament) because it differs every time.

I have met some shitty pedigree breeders however you go on champ dogs and ring a few breeders of your desired breed and health tests are only the beginning, some demand meeting at least 3 times, coming to view the potential owners house.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

CheekoAndCo said:


> And I wonder how much truth is in these pedigrees you get with crosses? Not alot if what I've saw is anything to go by. Blu's grandad etc are on ones I've saw.. Yes the top winning poodle of all time is going to be used to create mongrels.. I think not. And the breeder is far far from happy her pedigrees are being forged. Last thing they would ever do is cross to something else. Last time someone in poodles done that they more than paid for it. Kicked off of all the breed clubs and hardly spoken to at shows. She done it for a quick buck but she regretted it soon after.


I can't argue with that. All your pedigrees are legitimate and all mine are forged.

Rep to you for an unanswerable argument :thumbup:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Can I just say well done to everyone for this thread not ending in bloodshed :thumbup:


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I can't argue with that. All your pedigrees are legitimate and all mine are forged.
> 
> Rep to you for an unanswerable argument :thumbup:


I'm not saying yours personaly are forged but there is breeders out there doing it you have to admit! Yes same with pedigrees too but I've saw alot of poodle crosses that somehow have pedigrees of show dogs I know.

2/3 of my dogs pedigrees are legit. Cheeko's... Well that ain't even worth the paper it's printed out! Something like G granparents aren't KC reg but the grandparents are yet his parents aren't. Now that wouldn't be allowed so it's safe to say his pedigree is a pile of rubbish.

Thanks for the rep anyway


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> Can I just say well done to everyone for this thread not ending in bloodshed :thumbup:


It's early days yet  But so far so good


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Freyja said:


> I know of a breeder of american cockers who has at least one ex show dog who works as a gundog or has at least done his training and is ready to start working. She no longer shows him so he has had his long coat clipped but is apparently doing very well. He was also successful in the ring


I know three Labrador x poodle that work (I mean work not hobby) as gundogs... are we in ????? :thumbsup: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

We've made it 11 pages that's quite an achievement for a thread talking about crossbreeding and then validity of companion dogs :thumbup:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I know three Labrador x poodle that work (I mean work not hobby) as gundogs... are we in ????? :thumbsup: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


My friend, who has standard poodles, says that poodles were originally gundogs, I don't know much about poodles but I'm guessing that 'doodles would be good gundogs as it's what both breeds were originally for?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Poodles were bred as water retrievers pretty much the same as irish water spaniels. Just many aren't worked any more although some people work standards


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

We have a Poodle too you know


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I have to say I find it strange that cross-breed dogs and their value cause so much arguement when in the horse world most animals are cross-breeds and noone bats an eye-lid at paying £5000+ for one (and the same for a pure-bred). I don't quite know how to say what I'm trying to say but it has surprised me how controversial cross-breed dogs seem to be.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> Aslong as they are winning in agility they won't really care what they are crossing. Plenty of small breeds that are good at agility or even small crosses without trying to make ones from big dogs to small dogs.


Yes. Plain poodles do very well, so do shelties, JRTs - and then there's Agility Champion Myndoc Blue Jack, JRT x Sheltie. There's no need to breed border collies with toy breeds, it's just mad.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

But horses when they're crosses are generally bred for a reason right? Besides horses cost a lot more to look after than a dog and are with the breeders much longer so would cost more


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> We have a Poodle too you know


Can I come shave his face so he looks even cuter?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Burrowzig said:


> Yes. Plain poodles do very well, so do shelties, JRTs - and then there's Agility Champion Myndoc Blue Jack, JRT x Sheltie. There's no need to breed border collies with toy breeds, it's just mad.


But there were no border collies in the mini and everyone knows that border collies are like the ultimate breed and must be in every event possible right? . I would guess they're being bred by the collies obsessives who insist they're the only breed that can do anything. Not even a chance of them being accidental litters if I remember right the bichon/cc/border collie mix was specifically bred by the person running it


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I know three Labrador x poodle that work (I mean work not hobby) as gundogs... are we in ????? :thumbsup: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


I'm taking you mean go out on shoots? If so I would say this is a hobby. To do it seriously would mean to trial a dog and there is no way a cross would be in a trial


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

My dog is a cross and he was bred for a reason, just like my horse is a cross and was, I assume, bred for a reason. I guess with horses you don't, generally, buy direct from the breeder so there is a big difference.

I just don't understand what is SO wrong with breeding cross-breed dogs (great dane x chi stupidity aside obviously).


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It's more accepted in horses whereas in dogs you get people that are horrified at say the LUA dalmations which were outcrossed to pointer to get rid of a problem nearly all dalmations suffer from. The reason the poor babies wouldn't be able to show them for a few generations . I think there's too much obsession with purity in dogs where it can be detrimental to them.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

CheekoAndCo said:


> Can I come shave his face so he looks even cuter?


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... we let it grow cos he looked too harsh with a shaven face.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

He's very cute what's his name?


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Patterdale_lover said:


> I'm taking you mean go out on shoots? If so I would say this is a hobby. To do it seriously would mean to trial a dog and there is no way a cross would be in a trial


No I mean working... with a gamekeeper.... not "trials".


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> No I've seen corgi/bc, jrt/bc, bichon/chinese crested/border collie, pomeranian/bc. It's ridiculous but I guess the border collie obsessives couldn't cope with the idea of no border collies in the mini.


BC x JRT often arise as farm mutts - a collie for the sheep and a JRT for the rats, neither neutered, they get the urge on them and hey presto - puppies. That's how my Ziggy arose (BC as mum), she's medium for agility and does OK. I got her from a rescue place with no idea of doing agility with her at the time. I know people are deliberately breeding them for agility too, but it's not a cross I'd have again. A friend has another BC x JRT with JRT as mum - an accidental mating, dog is like a skinny long-tailed JRT, and will be 'small' when she starts to compete.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> He's very cute what's his name?


Thank you. His name's William.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Werehorse said:


> I just don't understand what is SO wrong with breeding cross-breed dogs (great dane x chi stupidity aside obviously).


Dirty blood.

Joking, joking. Obviously. :thumbup: Anyone who believes in that kind of stuff has bigger problems.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I've met two border collie/jrt mixes bred specifically for agility. Woman brought them to our class and they were mental. Terrier manicness and reactivity with border collie reactivity and high energy levels. She couldn't get them to focus long enough to actually do any work with them. They were litter mates though I'm sure they're not all like that


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

jenniferx said:


> Dirty blood.
> 
> Joking, joking. Obviously. :thumbup: Anyone who believes in that kind of stuff has bigger problems.


No that genuinely is the problem for a lot of pedigree breeders


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

jenniferx said:


> Dirty blood.
> 
> Joking, joking. Obviously. :thumbup: Anyone who believes in that kind of stuff has bigger problems.


:lol:

MUDBLOOD!

We tell Oscar daily that he is a dirty mongral, just incase he gets ideas above his station.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I call Buster a mutt all the time and was told it's offensive to the dog to call him that. I say it and his tail starts wagging :lol:. Might be the tone I use though


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Thank you. His name's William.


Suits being shaved better  But I hate mine even having a weeks growth on their face. Bit OCD with it! When I'm a groomer going to have to try so hard not to have an 'accident' on a poodles face with the clippers where all the fur comes off when the owner wants it on :lol:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I prefer poodles with unshaved faces *ducks*. Just prefer them a bit more shaggy


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> I've met two border collie/jrt mixes bred specifically for agility. Woman brought them to our class and they were mental. Terrier manicness and reactivity with border collie reactivity and high energy levels. She couldn't get them to focus long enough to actually do any work with them. They were litter mates though I'm sure they're not all like that


Mine has the terrier tenacity and barks like a nutter as soon as she gets in the arena, but as soon as she's on the start line she concentrates very well, has a great startline wait, does lead-out pivots, has rock solid contacts - only problems she doesn't like to work ahead unless she's 100% sure where to go next, and loses quite a bit of time on wide turns. 8 yrs old now, there's no changing her! But I'd not have another (nothing with terrier in again)!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Terriers can be good if you can persuade them it's worth their while Buster's so easily bribed with food and loves jumping so he loves agility. Terriers make pretty awesome agility dogs if they like it if they don't you're screwed. I'd have one over a collie any day. No offence to anybody who's owned by a collie of course


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Yeah, friends run terriers (I've run them in training and its so exhilerating to work with a fast dog). I just don't really go for the stubborn terrier mentality to live with. Kite is just so much easier, calmer, more responsive. It'll be Welsh Sheepdogs for me for the forseeable future.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I prefer a dog saying "sit why should I? Well if you're going to give me sausage I suppose I can" to "right done sit, lie down, beg, stand all learned in about 10 minutes what's next mum". I must have a masochistic streak giant schnauzers aren't known for being easy either :lol:


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## inverwire (Nov 28, 2010)

its all do with money pure and simple,with no breeding plan or thougt to what thier doing or producing 5 yrs down line, the ofspring of these crosses are mongrels of which there is too many al ready with animal shelters overtflowing,for its the dog that suffers all for sake off GREED


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

OMG it's the same old stuff being gone over again and again with the same people spouting the same crap!!!

Most people buy dogs as companions.

There are good and bad in BOTH crossbreed breeders and Pedigrees

You cannot get certain crosses in Rescues for love nor money!! so saying rescues are full of them is just a sweeping statement. The rescues are full of Staffy crosses mainly.

Us poodle cross owners are not stupid and we don't buy for the names given etc...

The prices charged are high but if it's the dog we want then it's up to us if we pay that price. I don't slate the price of anyone elses choice so why do you think it's acceptable to slate mine?

My two crosses were carefully chosen for their looks and personality and lifestyle traits.
They were from breeders who health test.

I would dearly love another Cockapoo but sadly cannot afford 3 dogs.

Whilst I agree that there are people out to make money- I think there are a lot on here who are very judgemental on crosses and just use this forum to "bash" people.

This post was initially discussing the types of crosses now being seen and some of the crosses are wrong.

But as usual it ends up being a thread for all the usual crossbreed bashing that gets done over and over again.

FFS give it a rest.


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

PurpleCrow said:


> I dont understand why people will pay £400 + for a mutt...
> 
> No offence to mutts!


Probably because, except for the 15£ of the CK registration, all other expenses are exactly the same....


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I have to say that we were actually on the look out for a working "sprocker" when we heard about Oscar's litter. We were investigating breeders of working cockers and springers as well but to be honest getting a pedigree had the feeling of settling for something that wasn't quite what we were looking for.

There was nothing money grabbing about Oscar's breeders. They wanted a new working spaniel for themselves from their favourite working bitch. And the rest of the litter were found good homes. We paid £200 for him and I'd pay the same again and more at the drop of a hat for another of the same mould - his temperament is exceptional and he is growing to be a very handsome boy. I couldn't have asked for more.

I didn't want a rescue dog. I wanted a cross-breed puppy. And I can't see why that is such a bad thing.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

dimkaz said:


> Probably because, except for the 15£ of the CK registration, all other expenses are exactly the same....


Whats the CK registration


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Whats the CK registration


Kennel Club registration maybe:confused1:


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> Kennel Club registration maybe:confused1:



I realized after I posted! I thought it were something to do with CKCS initially!


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> OMG it's the same old stuff being gone over again and again with the same people spouting the same crap!!!
> 
> Most people buy dogs as companions.
> 
> ...


Trying to turn it into an argument as usual?

It has been a pretty calm debate if you read it. No arguing just people putting their points of views across.. Well until you posted this. Clearly you like arguing


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

I am not arguing am I ?

Just trying to stop this getting into it's usual crossbreed bashing thread.

Comments have been made if you look back as peoples post and I am entitled to express my opinion as well as anyone else.

just because YOU don't like poodle crosses doesn't mean it's wrong.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/36419-important-rule-regarding-crossbreeds.html I wish people would read this rule,it would save a lot of problems.
*


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I am not arguing am I ?
> 
> Just trying to stop this getting into it's usual crossbreed bashing thread.
> 
> ...


It wasn't bashing cross breeds really. It was a calm discussion saying bad things go on between both crosses and pedigrees. Elmo knows my views and yes there has been heated discussions in the past between us and others but we are still able to put our point of views across without it turning into a huge argument. He gave me rep so I think that's proof enough it doesn't have to turn into something lol!

People have said they don't like poodles with shaved faces but that doesn't mean I'm going to throw a huge strop saying they are slagging my dogs because mine have shaved faces. Different people like different things. Just have to accept it. My best friend has a poodle x but we just don't discuss it because we have different views.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I am not arguing am I ?
> 
> Just trying to stop this getting into it's usual crossbreed bashing thread.
> 
> ...


I don't really think this thread has 'bashed' specific crosses, it was originally started because of the increasingly 'imaginative' (read £££ signs) crosses out there & the ludicrous prices they're advertised at
It must be incredibly frustrating for all the good breeders of pedigree dogs to see the irresponsible matings that go on & even more distressing for the rescues that have to pick up the pieces


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> We have a Poodle too you know


OMG William is so cute!!!!

Love the longer look on his face as it softens it and he doesn't have the poodle long thin nose ( which I hate and my cockapoo boy has this!!).

He looks a bit like a cockapoo actually apart from his colouring.

Me likey:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm not bashing crosses love crosses. It's the "breeders" who are producing worse and worse crosses with no consideration for the health of the puppies so they can charge more money as they're "rare" that I object to. There are of course pedigree breeders that breed for money over health of course there are and they aren't right either. We were doing so well don't turn this thread into a petty argument please?


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Many moons ago when i was a kid,dogs would roam the streets all day and night.Now if a bitch became pregnant there would be no way on earth of knowing what breed the dad was.The only difference today is imo people can put names to the mum+dad,ie. what breed they are.*


Thats how our remember it too! And I cannot remember there being any of the rescues about then as there are now, apart from the RSPCA that is who were well repsected then. Back to those puppies most of those that survived would be given away to neighbours or offered free in the pet shop windows. BUT many would have ended up in a bucket of water at birth.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Colette said:


> What I find very telling when looking through the ads is that the "working" type non-pedigree dogs (patterdales, other terrier crosses, lurchers etc) are mostly sold as what they are - no silly names and sensible prices. T*he ones most likely to be given stupid names and ridiculous prices are the toy breed crosses (cavachons etc), poodle crosses (doodles and poos), and to a certain extent now the butch ones appealing to macho young chavs (masweilers etc).
> 
> This to me suggests that they are being marketted at certain types of people - those with more money than sense perhaps? And primarily to make the breeders some money.*
> 
> In either case though I would still prefer all breeding dogs to be health tested, whether they are going to bred to the same breed or crossed.


Here is an example?


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> I'm not bashing crosses love crosses. It's the "breeders" who are producing worse and worse crosses with no consideration for the health of the puppies so they can charge more money as they're "rare" that I object to. There are of course pedigree breeders that breed for money over health of course there are and they aren't right either. We were doing so well don't turn this thread into a petty argument please?


They go well until certain people get bored and want it to turn into an argument sadly.

Some breeds do need crossed for a few generations to try save the breed from dying out with health problems but none of the crosses you see advertised are doing this really. Doubt it will ever happen anyway because the breeders won't admit there is a problem with their breed. One of those Dallys who was outcrossed won BOB and the group at an open show last year. Was reading that Jemima Harrisons blog last night and saw it. So looks like some judges are accepting to these dogs!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Yeah the LUA dalmations were a great example of but of course you lose the all important purity and so some breeders throw hissy fits at the mere suggestion . But no one that breeding a rare australian shepherd/cocker spaniel for £600 is doing that for health


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

You know Cheeko anytime I post defending my crosses you turn it personal.

I have every right to post - just as anyone else.

I am not arguing as I have already participated in this thread when it first started.

However things were getting more away from the original thread as you and Elmo and Shetland lover were having debates for example.

This thread was about the different types of crossbreeds now being seen.

Lets keep it at that .


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> Yeah the LUA dalmations were a great example of but of course you lose the all important purity and so some breeders throw hissy fits at the mere suggestion . But no one that breeding a rare australian shepherd/cocker spaniel for £600 is doing that for health


Not owning a breed that needs to be crossbred due to health problems then I think it's fine to lose some purity to stop something that can kill the breed easily but maybe I would feel different if my breed had health problems! In the size of poodles I have PRA has really been bred out of most lines. Both my boys are hereditary clear for prcd-PRA but I'd still get them eye tested and probaly hip scored because if I ever use them at stud I'd like a pup for agility so wouldn't want to use them if they had bad hips!


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> You know Cheeko anytime I post defending my crosses you turn it personal.
> 
> I have every right to post - just as anyone else.
> 
> ...


You don't like the long face of a poodle. That could easily offend me you know seeing as one of my boys has one of the most perfect heads of a poodle with a long fine muzzle but I'm grown up enough to accept not everyone likes everything so don't take it as some personal insult. I'd hate for some people on here to show because they would take loads of stuff far to personal if the judge wrote something they didn't like about their dog!!

We were talking about different cross breeds being seen. I mentioned the likes of a gsd x poodle and that's a cross I hadn't seen before.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I feel that if it's necessary a controlled outcross programme is a great idea in a breed that needs it.

There was a litter of shepadoodle on p4h the other week


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> You don't like the long face of a poodle. That could easily offend me you know seeing as one of my boys has one of the most perfect heads of a poodle with a long fine muzzle but I'm grown up enough to accept not everyone likes everything so don't take it as some personal insult. I'd hate for some people on here to show because they would take loads of stuff far to personal if the judge wrote something they didn't like about their dog!!
> 
> We were talking about different cross breeds being seen. I mentioned the likes of a gsd x poodle and that's a cross I hadn't seen before.


No not everyone likes the same as others I agree.
However there is no need to be rude/sarcastic.

If you don't like poodle crosses for example that's fine- I don't mind each to their own.

But if someone says people who have them only buy them for their silly names or have more money than sense then that is rude.

I wasn't being rude saying I don't like the long poodle noses as I mentioned my cockapoo boy has that trait. So I don't know why that could of offended you? ( though you said it didn't).

Don't make me out to be someone who doesn't agree with people who have differing opinions. I am not.

However if sweeping statements or rude comments are made then I will speak up.

Perhaps we can now go back to the new crosses people have come across?


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> You know Cheeko anytime I post defending my crosses you turn it personal.
> 
> I have every right to post - just as anyone else.
> 
> ...


I have not seen Cheeko make anything personal....and dont bring me into it please, me and elmo were have a debate about the way breeders breed and how having a pedigree (piece of paper so even a cross could have this IF the parents were registered) was a great way to trace health in the line and know more about the family.

I have nothing against cross breeds or GOOD breeders of cross's or pedigree's but its the bad breeders that really get to me. I am tempted to take a picture of my dogs bum to show you what bad breeders have caused my girl to go through....

I dont see the point in cross breeding to very sick breeds....its very very stupid, the sick breeds need improving not making worse. 

And it is marketing when they sell dogs with silly names, whats wrong with a cocker spaniel cross poodle? Nothing....so why not market them as such, maybe because they cant have the £600/£700 price tag then.

Not having a go but the point is that no one on here has a problem with cross breeds but has a problem with bad breeders of pedigree's or cross breeds. IMO if you cant do afford/be bothered to do the health test then you cant afford/be bothered to have a litter.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> I have not seen Cheeko make anything personal....and dont bring me into it please, me and elmo were have a debate about the way breeders breed and how having a pedigree (piece of paper so even a cross could have this IF the parents were registered) was a great way to trace health in the line and know more about the family.
> 
> I have nothing against cross breeds or GOOD breeders of cross's or pedigree's but its the bad breeders that really get to me. I am tempted to take a picture of my dogs bum to show you what bad breeders have caused my girl to go through....
> 
> ...


 I agree it is wrong to breed sick breeds together and I agree on the bad breeders and all this has been said before.

You even wanted to know about the health tests of my dogs which I PM you with a while back.

Cheeko was getting personal accusing me of wanting to argue when I posted to stop the thread from getting off topic.

If breeders want to call them by a silly name then so what???

how on earth do you think all these breeds ( full) got their names????

A name is a description to assist people when looking for crosses and why people get so worked up that crosses are given names on here amazes me!!

It's just a name- CHILLAX


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I agree it is wrong to breed sick breeds together and I agree on the bad breeders and all this has been said before.
> 
> You even wanted to know about the health tests of my dogs which I PM you with a while back.
> 
> ...


The thread wasn't getting off topic people were just discussing other points of bad crosses like copied pedigrees, not health testing etc. You always seem to join these threads when it gets 'heated' asif you enjoy arguing with people.

Let me see.. Poodles are called poodles because they are water retrivers from Germany and over there they are called Pudels. Pudel means splash in water and this represents what they were bred for. Totaly different from being like 'O its half a poodle and hald a cocker so lets call it a cockerpoo'. The breed name has a reason behind it not just some random word that someone thinks to come up with! Breeds have a history behind then for working and the names represent this.

Maybe take your own advice at the end btw


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I agree it is wrong to breed sick breeds together and I agree on the bad breeders and all this has been said before.
> 
> You even wanted to know about the health tests of my dogs which I PM you with a while back.
> 
> ...


Most got their name from the job they did, the shetland sheepdog was originally called the shetland collie which was a collie type breed from the shetland isle.

Now, shetland sheepdog - sheepdog from the shetland isle.

German shepherd - well the name says it all.

Cavalier king charles - King charles loved the breed and it was a companion dog for him.

Calling it a daft name that could be mis-understud by "potential owners" is defiying the point...I mean isnt the whole reason you like cross's because they are not pedigree? But they are calling them names like pedigrees. (if that makes sense).

Whats wrong with cocker spaniel cross poodle? I know thats what I call them.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> The thread wasn't getting off topic people were just discussing other points of bad crosses like copied pedigrees, not health testing etc. Y*ou always seem to join these threads when it gets 'heated' asif you enjoy arguing with people.
> *
> Let me see.. Poodles are called poodles because they are water retrivers from Germany and over there they are called Pudels. Pudel means splash in water and this represents what they were bred for. *Totaly different from being like 'O its half a poodle and hald a cocker so lets call it a cockerpoo'. The breed name has a reason behind it not just some random word that someone thinks to come up with!* Breeds have a history behind then for working and the names represent this.
> 
> Maybe take your own advice at the end btw


FYI I joined this thread on pg 4 much earlier than you!!! so get your facts right before accusing people of something that isn't right!!!

Cockapoos are not a new name as the name came from America where they have been bred since the 60's.

A breed derives it's name from a lot of different factors and I am sure some are probably just random!


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> OMG it's the same old stuff being gone over again and again with the same people spouting the same crap!!!


Yes - same responses ! - here we go 

Shame there's always someone how comes in and ruins a perfectly good and legitimate debate


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Children can we stop with the petty arguing now please? This was a nice reasonable debate yesterday


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> FYI I joined this thread on pg 4 much earlier than you!!! so get your facts right before accusing people of something that isn't right!!!
> 
> Cockapoos are not a new name as the name came from America where they have been bred since the 60's.
> 
> A breed derives it's name from a lot of different factors and I am sure some are probably just random!


I joined on page 1 actually but I'm not going to argue over something childish like that 

They have been bred well before that when people used to call them crossbreeds. All crosses have been bred well before that too but now sadly people seem to think a fancy name is more important and will cross breeds that aren't suitable. The likes of breeding a collie to all these smaller breeds to compete in agility is an expample. It's not fair on the dogs health and can cause problems like something mentioned earlier.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Probably because, except for the 15£ of the CK registration, all other expenses are exactly the same....


But the costs of raising a litter are not the same at all. They vary considerably depending on the care the breeder takes and the type of breed too (for example, a toy breed with a couple of pups will consume far less food than a large, large breed litter). That applies whether pedigree or purebreed.

I think I've said it before, but price of a puppy is no indication of the care and input the breeder has put into raising the litter.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> Children can we stop with the petty arguing now please? This was a nice reasonable debate yesterday


Was trying to get it back on track with the reasons behind breed names but always someone who has to act childish.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

I thought this thread was a pretty calm and fair debate until a page or so back.

Anyway,

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat...do-not-look-if-you-feel-sick.html#post2158494


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Poor Scorcher


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> Poor Scorcher


The vets said its so far along she must have been born with it, meaning she has the genetic version, the other version is 1 that is rare to get as its sweating in the bum from the tail being covered but its only ever been that version if the dog gets it around the age of 8/9...but because she was born with it the vet is suprised that she hasnt died from it yet. 

We have her on medication but its never going to get better all we can do is try to make it more pain free.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> A name is a description to assist people when looking for crosses and why people get so worked up that crosses are given names on here amazes me!!


Wally Cochran, who bred the first poodle/lab crosses for GDBA expressed recently that he regretted doing it because it spawned the current trend for these crosses. He named them labradoodles because no one wanted them when they were known as lab poodle crosses but as soon as they were called labradoodles then their popularity exploded.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> FYI I joined this thread on pg 4 much earlier than you!!! so get your facts right before accusing people of something that isn't right!!!
> 
> Cockapoos are not a new name as the name came from America where they have been bred since the 60's.
> 
> A breed derives it's name from a lot of different factors and I am sure some are probably just random!


Me and cheeko were on this thread from page 1.:confused1:


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I joined on page 1 actually but I'm not going to argue over something childish like that
> 
> They have been bred well before that when people used to call them crossbreeds. All crosses have been bred well before that too but now sadly people seem to think a fancy name is more important and will cross breeds that aren't suitable. The likes of breeding a collie to all these smaller breeds to compete in agility is an expample. It's not fair on the dogs health and can cause problems like something mentioned earlier.


All crossbreed owners that I know all class there dogs as crosses.

None us give a dam about the name and we don't think it is more important than the dogs health and welfare etc.......

Please do not make sweeping statements. Yes they are some that may be enticed by a name but equally there are many more that are not.

I also agree that I have said over and over again, I too do not agree with some of the crosses that are being done as it impacts on the dogs health.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Me and cheeko were on this thread from page 1.:confused1:


I missed out the word thought!!

It should have read much earlier than you thought!!!

I was highlighting the fact that your friend accused me of joining this thread late.

Wasn't even mentioning about when you joined


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> Wally Cochran, who bred the first poodle/lab crosses for GDBA expressed recently that he regretted doing it because it spawned the current trend for these crosses. He named them labradoodles because no one wanted them when they were known as lab poodle crosses but as soon as they were called labradoodles then their popularity exploded.


Yep...



Cockerpoo lover said:


> All crossbreed owners that I know all class there dogs as crosses.
> 
> None us give a dam about the name and we don't think it is more important than the dogs health and welfare etc.......
> 
> ...


Read above, what rocco said.

Also it was only a few weeks ago this lovely member joined.
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/141308-pugalier-breeder-problems.html

Genuinely thought the "pugalier" came with papers.


> she was asking £650 each and they didnt come with any papers.


Surely if they state PUG CROSS CAVALIER then that wont be of any confusion. :confused1:


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I missed out the word thought!!
> 
> It should have read much earlier than you thought!!!
> 
> ...


No I know you didnt mention me but both me and cheeko joined in the thread about the same time, thats how I know shes been on here since page 1.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> Wally Cochran, who bred the first poodle/lab crosses for GDBA expressed recently that he regretted doing it because it spawned the current trend for these crosses. He named them labradoodles because no one wanted them when they were known as lab poodle crosses but as soon as they were called labradoodles then their popularity exploded.


Interesting reading

Labradoodle History


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

What exactly does I was here first no I was here first *stamps foot* have to do with crossbreeding?


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> Yes - same responses ! - here we go
> 
> Shame there's always someone how comes in and ruins a perfectly good and legitimate debate


I joined the debate *earlier* actually and I am debating just like you.

Sorry you feel I ruined it but then I know how you feel about crossbreeds from other threads- so you would never agree with me anyway.

Putting on a post asking to get back to the original theme of the thread and defending crossbreeds is not ruining it - it's just stating my opinion.

Your pretty quick to state yours!!!


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> You know Cheeko anytime I post defending my crosses you turn it personal.
> 
> I have every right to post - just as anyone else.
> 
> ...


Umm ? Everyone was enjoying the debate and saying how refreshing it was to have one? So yes you are starting an argument by stamping your feet.

You also didn't start the thread so the only person who could validly say "lets keep it at that" is the OP 

What I don't get is yes there are specific companion breeds e.g. the toy group and most dogs are kept as companions. But why start breeding all these crosses to be companions? And labelling them with a silly name. When most the worlds dogs are kept as companions? You know accidental crosses and crosses to help a certain breed with health issues that is fine. I don't agree with desginer dogs. never will.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I joined the debate *earlier* actually and I am debating just like you.
> 
> Sorry you feel I ruined it but then I know how you feel about crossbreeds from other threads- so you would never agree with me anyway.
> 
> ...


This thread isnt about you, rocco obviously feels you have turned the thread heated which isnt far wrong by taking it personally. I own a cross breed.....but I more than understand why people are against breeding them.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Whereas the OP doesn't mind it going off on tangents as long as it's about crossbreeding and not turning into a pathetic childish argument about who was here first.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> Whereas the OP doesn't mind it going off on tangents as long as it's about crossbreeding and not turning into a pathetic childish argument about who was here first.


Because you were here first  :lol:


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> What exactly does I was here first no I was was here first have to do with crossbreeding?


It doesn't!!!

I was accused of joining the debate late when in fact I joined it earlier and was posting to your comments.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Yep...
> 
> Read above, what rocco said.
> 
> ...


Yes it's a shame for that lady.

Like I said some will be enticed by a name by not ALL.

But then you get some people who think getting a purebreed will come with papers and be A1.

Sadly not everyone is clued up on buying dogs and that's where the bad breeders get their foot in


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

As a cross-breed owner I find some of the implied (not necessarily explicitly stated) attitudes towards cross-breed owners somewhat insulting. But hey-ho, making sweeping generalisations is a damn site easier than actually thinking about people as individuals who have their own unique set of reasons for the actions they carry out.

For the record I usually say "springer cross cocker" to people who ask (most people assume he's a springer). But then I like the sound of my own voice as well as having more money than sense.

Yes Cockerpoo Lover's original post was slightly imflamitory but it seemed a fair comment to me, there was a lot (and always is) a lot of implication than people who own cross-breeds must be stupid on threads like this, even if it isn't stated directly.

Anyway, I'm off to look for unregistered farm bred collies that I can mate with my lovely little Sprocker so I can sell them as Sproccollis and make a mint.

Cheery-bye.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> I joined the debate earlier actually and I am debating just like you.


Your post that took the debate off topic wasn't debating 



> He looks a bit like a cockapoo actually apart from his colouring.


Must admit this did make me smile though 
Don't you mean that a cockapoo looks a bit like a poodle! Well, they would of course


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Werehorse said:


> As a cross-breed owner I find some of the implied (not necessarily explicitly stated) attitudes towards cross-breed owners somewhat insulting. But hey-ho, making sweeping generalisations is a damn site easier than actually thinking about people as individuals who have their own unique set of reasons for the actions they carry out.
> 
> For the record I usually say "springer cross cocker" to people who ask (most people assume he's a springer). But then I like the sound of my own voice as well as having more money than sense.
> 
> ...


Okay where is the refreshing debate suddenly dissapearing to :confused1: Typical, one member kicks off and the flood gates open.

No one has said they are AGAINST cross breeds or that they think they are impure. They have just said MOST (not all) of the crosses have become outrageous and slapped a silly label on. 
Hats off to you for calling your dog a springer cross cocker, call him a sprocker I don't care I'm sure he is lovely. But I would have a problem if you crossed him with a pug and called him a pugrockeringer going for £800 :lol:

Sorry for the rant, I'm not in a great mood as it is.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Werehorse said:


> As a cross-breed owner I find some of the implied (not necessarily explicitly stated) attitudes towards cross-breed owners somewhat insulting. But hey-ho, making sweeping generalisations is a damn site easier than actually thinking about people as individuals who have their own unique set of reasons for the actions they carry out.
> 
> For the record I usually say "springer cross cocker" to people who ask (most people assume he's a springer). But then I like the sound of my own voice as well as having more money than sense.
> 
> ...


No mate it with a poodle and have a Sprockerpoo


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> No mate it with a poodle and have a Sprockerpoo


Wouldn't surprise me if this name appeared soon.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Wouldn't surprise me if this name appeared soon.


I usually end up with the sprockerpoos after a trip to the Tandoori Tavern !


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Werehorse said:


> As a cross-breed owner I find some of the implied (not necessarily explicitly stated) attitudes towards cross-breed owners somewhat insulting. But hey-ho, making sweeping generalisations is a damn site easier than actually thinking about people as individuals who have their own unique set of reasons for the actions they carry out.
> 
> For the record I usually say "springer cross cocker" to people who ask (most people assume he's a springer). But then I like the sound of my own voice as well as having more money than sense.
> 
> ...


No one on here is against cross breeds......that would be like me taking it to far because you all own cross's so MUST be against pedigree's.

A dog is a flaming dog....I prefair to have a dog I can trace, you like to have a cross good one you 

And good on you for calling it what it really is...

Its up to you if you want to pay more for the cross than its pedigree springer and cocker relatives. I wouldnt but thats my opinion.

I am against bad breeding and breeding from un health tested parents PEDIGREE OR CROSS is un-acceptable and I would not support those types of breeders.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> Your post that took the debate off topic wasn't debating
> 
> Must admit this did make me smile though
> Don't you mean that a cockapoo looks a bit like a poodle! Well, they would of course


No most poodles with the normal poodle clip don't look like cockapoos.

I meant with his longer look he could be seen as a cockapoo if out and about.

Of course it's half his breed and therefore will have similar looks. I was really talking more about his cut.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> No most poodles with the normal poodle clip don't look like cockapoos.
> 
> I meant with his longer look he could be seen as a cockapoo if out and about.
> 
> Of course it's half his breed and therefore will have similar looks. I was really talking more about his cut.


Really ? How can you tell what a cockapoo is though? With the cross your surely to get a very wide variety some looking more poodle like some looking more cocker like.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> ....I prefair to have a dog I can trace, you like to have a cross good one you


You do still assume that I (or anyone else) can't trace the parents of my cross.. which is not the case.

There are many you can (the pedigree remember, is only a family tree) and many you can't. I'll concede the tractability is more likely with a "pure bred" but its certainly not the case that you can't trace the parents of a cross.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I give up apparently having a reasonable debate around here is impossible I'm going to ask for it to be locked


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## welshdoglover (Aug 31, 2009)

Before its locked, am going to stick my tuppence in.

Some cross breed dogs look lovely and make wonderful pets, but why oh why do people continue to breed them when rescue centres up and down the country are chockablock with cross breeds/ staffies and pure breds.

Please don't add to the problem for the sake of making a few quid.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Elmo read my post before saying that some cross breeds have pedigrees (the paper not the eknnel club papers) if they come from registered parents.

Edit found it for you.



> and dont bring me into it please, me and elmo were have a debate about the way breeders breed and how having a pedigree (piece of paper so even a cross could have this IF the parents were registered) was a great way to trace health in the line and know more about the family.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Really ? How can you tell what a cockapoo is though? With the cross your surely to get a very wide variety some looking more poodle like some looking more cocker like.


Yes that is true. They can have different coats but even with that I can tell a cockapoo when I meet one.

Though my breeder and two others I know who do F1 crosses do seem to generate puppies that are very similar.

However I like the differences.

I am always drawn to a scruffy mutt than a smooth coated one (though still love smooths)

When I was looking at getting a rescue, I was hoping to find a scruffy dude but sadly none to be had.

Same with black animals- don't always have good press but I like black coats.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

welshdoglover said:


> Before its locked, am going to stick my tuppence in.
> 
> Some cross breed dogs look lovely and make wonderful pets, but why oh why do people continue to breed them when rescue centres up and down the country are chockablock with cross breeds/ staffies and pure breds.
> 
> Please don't add to the problem for the sake of making a few quid.


But it's the same for pure breeds too?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Have asked for it to be locked now off to pets at home. Try not to have any bloodshed while I'm gone


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

And my two penneth!
Way off topic - but t'has already gone that way anyway!

T'is those that have been breeding the staffies and the stafttie crosses that need to get their house in order first!


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

CheekoAndCo said:


> He gave me rep so I think that's proof enough it doesn't have to turn into something lol!


I don't give many of those out either :lol:


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> This thread isnt about you, rocco obviously feels you have turned the thread heated which isnt far wrong by taking it personally. I own a cross breed.....but I more than understand why people are against breeding them.


Never said it was about me 

I too understand why people are against some cross breeding- those that impact on the health of the dog.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

welshdoglover said:


> Before its locked, am going to stick my tuppence in.
> 
> Some cross breed dogs look lovely and make wonderful pets, but why oh why do people continue to breed them when rescue centres up and down the country are chockablock with cross breeds/ staffies and pure breds.
> 
> Please don't add to the problem for the sake of making a few quid.


I guess because a lot of the crosses being produced are smaller dogs, and that's what a lot of people want. Not everyone wants a staffy/staffy cross and that's what the rescue centres are full of - or other large, usually male dogs with a variety of behaviour problems. That's what I found in rescue centres, initially around 6 years ago when looking for my first dog (after 5 months looking I found Ziggy), then again 4-5 yrs on when I started looking for a second dog. I don't think I saw any purebreds in the rescues apart from staffies and border collies.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

welshdoglover said:


> Before its locked, am going to stick my tuppence in.
> 
> Some cross breed dogs look lovely and make wonderful pets, but why oh why do people continue to breed them when rescue centres up and down the country are chockablock with cross breeds/ staffies and pure breds.
> 
> Please don't add to the problem for the sake of making a few quid.


Which is a good argument for no one breeding at all... not just crosses.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I joined the debate *earlier* actually and I am debating just like you.
> 
> Sorry you feel I ruined it but then I know how you feel about crossbreeds from other threads- so you would never agree with me anyway.
> 
> ...





Cockerpoo lover said:


> You know Cheeko anytime I post defending my crosses you turn it personal.
> 
> I have every right to post - just as anyone else.
> 
> ...





Cockerpoo lover said:


> Never said it was about me
> 
> I too understand why people are against some cross breeding- those that impact on the health of the dog.


Read the above posts...
The thread doesnt need to get personal the thread was a good debate between members with a difference of opinion. It doesnt need to be more than that.

I understand its a touchy subject but no one is saying cross breeds are wrong and need defending but that they dont need to have silly names, if they are as nice and good as they obviously are they dont need a fancy name (as rocco said) to help sales.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Which is a good argument for no one breeding at all... not just crosses.


I'll go along with that


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Umm ? Everyone was enjoying the debate and saying how refreshing it was to have one? So yes you are starting an argument by stamping your feet.
> 
> You also didn't start the thread so the only person who could validly say "lets keep it at that" is the OP
> 
> What I don't get is yes there are specific companion breeds e.g. the toy group and most dogs are kept as companions. But why start breeding all these crosses to be companions? And labelling them with a silly name. When most the worlds dogs are kept as companions? You know accidental crosses and crosses to help a certain breed with health issues that is fine. I don't agree with desginer dogs. never will.


I am not stamping my feet

Yes I can say "lets keep it at that"

and so what if you don't like crossbreeds- there are many of us that do.

I am glad my breeders bred mine as they are the best pets ever and I love them to death and that's all that matters.

I am happy with my choice of dog and if you don't agree that's up to you.

We are all different.

All dogs are designer.

They either came from a cross, designed to do a job or a specific task such as guide dog or agility or as a companion etc............


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Perhaps they should make it that all *new* crosses are done for working or health reasons then? Not the ones that have happened for years but new "designer" breeds
I see the argument for and against crosses and love my mutt but it is getting way out of hand now with people crossing for money only to hell with the consequences.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> All dogs are designer.
> 
> They either came from a cross, designed to do a job or a specific task such as guide dog or agility or as a companion etc............


Um.......dogs that are around now for example:
Sheltand sheepdog, german shepherd, dobe, rottie, rough collie, border collie and so on were not bred with poodles to stop them from shedding. I believe thats what is ment by designer because some people buy them so they odnt have to have dog fur on their clothes.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I didn't pay more than a pedigree springer for Oscar. I paid less. But that probably makes me a cheapskate who was trying to get a dog for less or something. 

The rescue centres are not full of crosses. They are full of unloved dogs of all different sizes, shapes and breeds. Cross-breeding is not the problem there it's people who don't know what they are getting into when buying ANY dog that is the problem there.

I have nothing against pedigrees. What I worry about is that getting a pedigree from a good breeder is seen as a guarentee for getting a healthy dog. It isn't. Yes it can narrow the odds but health problems can still come up whatever you do, however many tests you do.

Breeding from unhealthy dogs is wrong. Oscar's parents are healthy dogs. Whether they are the same breed as each other - does it matter? They are physically compatible. Besides a Sprocker is hardly a proper crossbreed given the history of the two breeds! :lol: So I don't even know what I'm argueing about.

Just that I'm a bit fed up of having doors held open for me to invite me to feel guilty or stupid for the type of dog I have! When actually a dog is a dog is a dog.

I'm not saying it's ALL of you either, before anyone is like well I haven't said that. But it does happen on here and this thread was turning that way.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2011)

As long as the dogs are health tested I couldnt really care what breed they are or what mix they are. It only bothers me when people breed from un-health tested dogs.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

I think the problem is twofold. We live in a consumer drive world - people like things that are different, make statements and like the look of. They don't like compromises, they want what they want.

Crosses have always been around, but in the past, they were mainly accidental matings (except for those bred for working - lurchers, terriers etc). Latchkey dogs were the norm, most pets were 'mutts' and the purebreed breeders really were wealthy, and were breeding dogs for a job or for love (and very knowledgeable they were too), but not for money.

Fast forward to a consumer led society where anything goes, uniqueness is and the current fashion is sought after, and dogs, are a commodity so the breeding of them has gone the same way. People don't breed to keep whole litters in their kennels for working, and accidental litters aren't given away to friends and neighbours for a nominal sum. 

It's a massive market and everyone wants in on it. If something catches on and sells, then there will be those that want to get in on it or take it a step further. 

Wally Cochran regrets naming the labradoodle as it has resulted in this farce of designer cross breeding. I repeat, there have always been crosses, I have nothing against crosses, the problem is the 'industry' and trends in breeding that it has created.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

WE all agree that we want dogs from health tested parents

It's up to an individual which dog they chose and how much they pay.

I love poodle crosses but I also love Bulldogs and Great Danes!!!

and give me a heinz 57 scruffy dude full of personality any day


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Trouble is it would be great if all animals had to be tested before breeding but it seems that would be impossible to police, Perhaps make breeders have to have a licence or something. But i suppose your always going to get "accidental" matings :confused1:


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Um.......dogs that are around now for example:
> Sheltand sheepdog, german shepherd, dobe, rottie, rough collie, border collie and so on were not bred with poodles to stop them from shedding. I believe thats what is ment by designer because some people buy them so they odnt have to have dog fur on their clothes.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:..... don't think so but its no worse than any other reason I've heard :lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> I think the problem is twofold. We live in a consumer drive world - people like things that are different, make statements and like the look of. They don't like compromises, they want what they want.
> 
> Crosses have always been around, but in the past, they were mainly accidental matings (except for those bred for working - lurchers, terriers etc). Latchkey dogs were the norm, most pets were 'mutts' and the purebreed breeders really were wealthy, and were breeding dogs for a job or for love (and very knowledgeable they were too), but not for money.
> 
> ...


*
*

Yes but trends also go for purebreeds too: Chi's, Pugs, french bulldogs are all the rage at the mo

Once a "breed" is popular than ££££ signs will go off in any bad breeder or opportunists head whether a crossbreed breeder or pure.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

XxZoexX said:


> Trouble is it would be great if all animals had to be tested before breeding but it seems that would be impossible to police, Perhaps make breeders have to have a licence or something. But i suppose your always going to get "accidental" matings :confused1:


Yes, there'll always be accidental matings. We don't want to go back to the days of drowning unwanted pups or kittens in a bucket.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Pedigrees are not immune from being bred for money, there is a market for them that is just as large as the market for crosses (or possibly larger, I don't know). Most dogs I see out and about, personally, are pedigrees. Which suggests to me, that in my little corner of the world at least, designer cross-breeds have not had the commercial success that some people seem to fear.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Um.......dogs that are around now for example:
> Sheltand sheepdog, german shepherd, dobe, rottie, rough collie, border collie and so on were not bred with poodles to stop them from shedding. I believe thats what is ment by designer because some people buy them so they odnt have to have dog fur on their clothes.


Yeah I love the fact that mine don't shed and don't have that doggy smell either.:thumbup:

But there are purebreeds other than the poodle that don't moult either.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Werehorse said:


> Pedigrees are not immune from being bred for money, there is a market for them that is just as large as the market for crosses (or possibly larger, I don't know). Most dogs I see out and about, personally, are pedigrees. Which suggests to me, that in my little corner of the world at least, designer cross-breeds have not had the commercial success that some people seem to fear.


In my town there is only two other cockapoo's ,well one cockapoo and one cockapoo x labradoodle.

And my Milly is the only Cavapoo ( cav x poodle) I have seen 

There are lots of labs, springers, GSD, Staffs and JRT.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Yes but trends also go for purebreeds too: Chi's, Pugs, french bulldogs are all the rage at the mo


That's why I said dogs are now a commodity and fashion and trends dictate what is wanted.



> Fast forward to a consumer led society where anything goes, uniqueness is and the current fashion is sought after, and dogs, are a commodity so the breeding of them has gone the same way


While there are merits in a consumer led society, there are many downfalls too and sadly it has done dogs no favours.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

rocco33 said:


> I think the problem is twofold. We live in a consumer drive world - people like things that are different, make statements and like the look of. They don't like compromises, they want what they want.
> 
> Crosses have always been around, but in the past, they were mainly accidental matings (except for those bred for working - lurchers, terriers etc). Latchkey dogs were the norm, most pets were 'mutts' and the purebreed breeders really were wealthy, and were breeding dogs for a job or for love (and very knowledgeable they were too), but not for money.
> 
> ...


But its the same system of ethics that created many of the "unnecessary" breeds we have now, many that came out of the roots of the KC and their experiments with eugenics... the search for the "perfect" dog to meet whatever they wanted.

So consumer capital drives production.. nothing new there. Consumer led production drives exploitation... certainly not new. The only difference now is the passage of time... my/your breed (created from crossing.. unless you own a wolf which I think is still illegal in this country)is OK for the following reasons:

1 - It has a purpose - for instance its a Burundi Sheepdog because none of the other 38 types of sheepdog would do as Burundi has different types of sheep.

- rubbish - we just wanted to breed our own type - consumer led.

2 - My breed has been around for a long time - you should buy one of the breeds that is already there... and you should be grateful.

- Yeah... right... the fact something has been around for a long time doesn't make it right, or better, or legitimate... just makes it old really.

So Wally what's his face regretted doing it... didn't see anyone saying "Wally is an expert... all hail Wally" when he came up with the cross... why do you all now think his opinion is a valid one... and BTW... not his business really. Just because Amerigo Vespucci suddenly decides that America was not such a good idea doesn't mean everyone has to pack up and move home...


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

It's not just dogs though- cats are a bit like that too.

Trouble is the world is ever changing and it's so fast paced and money is the driving force. So sad really


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> So Wally what's his face regretted doing it... didn't see anyone saying "Wally is an expert... all hail Wally" when he came up with the cross... why do you all now think his opinion is a valid one... and BTW... not his business really. Just because Amerigo Vespucci suddenly decides that America was not such a good idea doesn't mean everyone has to pack up and move home...


It isn't the cross he regretted, it was giving it a catchy name that has spawned a whole 'designer dog' industry. As poodle crosses, he couldn't find homes for the pups he bred, but once he'd given it a fancy name he was inundated with people wanting one.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Crosses also keep breeds alive in that with todays ever changing society and trends, I am sure certain breeds would almost die out if it wasn't for the fact of crossing them with another. Yes it means they are not in their pure form, but crossing could mean that it raises awareness of the breed as well ( in pure form) as well as the new cross.

So not only does crossing benefit some dogs health wise but some of the less favourable breeds could possibly die out????

Just a thought not based on fact ????


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> It's not just dogs though- cats are a bit like that too.


Well, all animals really - look at all those bred for research so that we can have cosmetics, drugs etc.

And yes, society has changed. People put their own needs and desires first. When I had my first dog, people didn't get a dog if there wasn't someone at home most of the day (although in those days most women stayed at home with their children so you didn't tend to have both partners working). People wouldn't consider it because dogs are people orientated and like company and it was unfair on the dog. Now, many people work full time and own dogs, but they put their desire for a dog before the needs of a dog.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> Well, all animals really - look at all those bred for research so that we can have cosmetics, drugs etc.
> 
> And yes, society has changed. People put their own needs and desires first. When I had my first dog, people didn't get a dog if there wasn't someone at home most of the day (although in those days most women stayed at home with their children so you didn't tend to have both partners working). People wouldn't consider it because dogs are people orientated and like company and it was unfair on the dog. Now, many people work full time and own dogs, but they put their desire for a dog before the needs of a dog.


Getting Monty was 50% of the reason I gave up my full-time job 3 years ago.

So not only did I get an expensive cross- longterm he is costing me a fortune


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

rocco33 said:


> It isn't the cross he regretted, it was giving it a catchy name that has spawned a whole 'designer dog' industry. As poodle crosses, he couldn't find homes for the pups he bred, but once he'd given it a fancy name he was inundated with people wanting one.


Does the name matter???? i.e.

Duck Tolling Retriever ? Gorgeous dogs but just how much have they collected from ducks and where is a duck expected to keep the change to pay a toll?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Does the name matter????


Errrr Yes - that was the point he was making!

I'm not sure how to put it to be more obvious. As a lab poodle x no one was interested in having one... once he announced he had some new labradoodle puppies, he was inundated with enquiries. Exactly the same pups - completely different response when given a fancy name.

I think it's unfortunate that the poodle has the name it does because it can translate into either a 'poo' or an 'oodle'. Call me a cynic if you want, but I don't believe for one minute that those breeding many of these crosses are trying to achieve a non-shedding cross as Wally Cochran was. If they were, why are the freeads not full of crosses with other non-shedding breeds. But you can get a poodle x 'almost every breed' - I even heard about a great dane x poodle recently


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