# Wolf Dog Craze



## catsandcanines

Unscrupulous breeders are cashing in on Twilight wolf dog craze:

'Unscrupulous' breeders are cashing in on Twilight wolf dog craze | News | Pet Product Marketing


----------



## FEJA JUODAS

sad reading...the breeds of dogs of the primitif most wolf style looks like huskeys etc mentioned in the article are indeed unfortunately massive end up in rescues dogs, due to their instincts of original purposes with high prey drives and lack of recall ease wandering off behaviour unmanageable by people without large grounds to keep them enclosed in...

a classic case of humans wanting the beauty of the look of a dog but not being able to cope with mangement of that animal

france had a massive problem with huskeys when they became fashionable with flat dwellers etc unable to manage them and one other reason for giving them up was the claim they were useless guard dogs ! lol ! the one i met going into a rescue by chance one day was a lovely nature dog the flat owner said it was chewing everything up while he was out and was a useless guard dog ! for a flat ? i thought why do you need a guard dog for a flat ?

intelligent was the other thought i had ! an intelligent dog does not attack every person it sees unless trained to do so or an idiot fearful dog ! if people visit and the dog stops barking and is friendly surely it has intelligently realised the people are acceptable to the owner ! lol !

i love the akita dog looks i must say... a big teddy bear looking dog ! regal !

i do read it is not a congenere meaning um other dogs friendly dog however, well many male dogs are hopeless at getting on with strange male dogs i think on that point, but a huge powerful dog like that will be yes not suitable to let off lead in public much, sigh.

the reality may be i think such dogs have a very limited possible market for ownership, people with large grounds most of all needed. and being popularised and attractive in looks to people liking the wilder looking dogs is harmful for sure to those dogs ending up in the pounds eventually when people without ability to manage their high demand special needs own them.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

catsandcanines said:


> Unscrupulous breeders are cashing in on Twilight wolf dog craze:
> 
> 'Unscrupulous' breeders are cashing in on Twilight wolf dog craze | News | Pet Product Marketing


The problem isnt the ethical good breeders, they have always been careful where the dogs end up and with whom and give full instruction.

Although KC registrations may have dropped thankfully its the unscrupulous people breeding to meet the demand and make a fast buck too, feeding the
demand for people who are buying them without any research or prior knowledge of the breed.

There are pages and pages of Malamutes and siberians on the free ads sites and various mixes of the two and with other breeds.


----------



## leashedForLife

Sled dog hotel said:


> There are pages & pages of Malamutes & Siberians on the free-ads sites, & various mixes of the two,
> and with other breeds.


 Heartbreaking - if they want the LOOK, buy a life-sized stuffed toy of good quality.

It won't need to be trained, walked to toilet, exercised, socialized, FED, taken to the vet or groomer,
brushed or bathed or have the nails trimmed, no poop to pick-up... _What's not to like? Perfect dog. :thumbup1: _

here ya go: A Siberian who doesn't even *shed!*
Melissa & Doug Realistic Life-Sized Stuffed Dog | Husky


----------



## Sled dog hotel

leashedForLife said:


> Heartbreaking - if they want the LOOK, buy a life-sized stuffed toy of good quality.
> 
> It won't need to be trained, walked to toilet, exercised, socialized, FED, taken to the vet or groomer,
> brushed or bathed or have the nails trimmed, no poop to pick-up... _What's not to like? Perfect dog. :thumbup1: _
> 
> here ya go: A Siberian who doesn't even *shed!*
> Melissa & Doug Realistic Life-Sized Stuffed Dog | Husky
> 
> View attachment 111414


Latest here seems to be the British Timber Dog. You can register any wolf-alike-dog of any breed or cross breed resembling a wolf, Dogs are assessed by
2 comitee members for a fee of £10 thats for the Foundation registry.

You can then once they are 16mths apply for the Breed Approved registry. They have to score 75% at least in the breed assessment. Owners are to submit a reliable pedigree???

They have to have a combined hip score of 20 or below. Considering Siberians are a breed mean score of 7 and Mals 13 for a foundation "breed" allowed hip scores up to 20 thats pretty bad IMO.

All illnesses considered by a vet to be detrimetal hereditary and welfare wise have to be declared at the assessment. Particularly Hips, spinal defects, epilepsy and dwarfism and eye problems Considering some can be later on set and recceisive modes of inheritance it doesnt say they have to actually be tested for to be accepted, then may be too late if they have already been bred from anyway.Plus how do you know if they are carriers, affected, or clear for reccesive hereditary problems especially.

Presumeably once excepted on the Breed approved registry you can then sell the pups as British Timber dogs, as it starts off with the foundation registry defined as any wolf-a-like dog of any breed or cross resembling a wolf which can be anything breeds or mix wise Im dumbfounded. All puppies are sold as pet only.

Home


----------



## leashedForLife

Sled dog hotel said:


> ...register any wolf-alike-dog of any breed or cross... resembling a wolf;
> Dogs are assessed by 2 committee members for a fee of £10... for the Foundation registry.
> 
> ...once they're 16-MO, apply for the Breed Approved registry. They have to score [minimum] 75%...
> in the breed assessment. Owners are to submit a reliable pedigree???
> 
> [Must] have a combined hip score of 20 or [less]... Siberians'... breed mean- score [is] 7, Mals [breed-mean
> is] 13; for a foundation [specimen to be] allowed hip-scores to [sum] 20, that's pretty bad, IMO.
> 
> All illnesses considered by a vet to be detrimental, [either] hereditary [or re] welfare, [must] be declared
> at the assessment. Particularly Hips, spinal defects, epilepsy & dwarfism [or] eye problems.
> Considering some can [have] later onset & recessive... inheritance, it doesnt say they have to actually be
> *tested*... to be accepted, [it will] be too late if they've already been bred... Plus, how do you know
> if they're carriers, affected, or clear, for recessive hereditary problems especially?
> 
> Presumeably once accepted... you can then sell the pups as British Timber dogs, as it starts off with
> the foundation registry defined as any wolf-like dog of any breed or cross resembling a wolf, which can
> be anything, breeds or mix-wise. I'm dumbfounded. All puppies are sold as pet only.


Godawful - i wonder if the KC can take out some Public-Service Ads?...


----------



## sharloid

Sled dog hotel said:


> Latest here seems to be the British Timber Dog. You can register any wolf-alike-dog of any breed or cross breed resembling a wolf, Dogs are assessed by
> 2 comitee members for a fee of £10 thats for the Foundation registry.
> 
> You can then once they are 16mths apply for the Breed Approved registry. They have to score 75% at least in the breed assessment. Owners are to submit a reliable pedigree???
> 
> They have to have a combined hip score of 20 or below. Considering Siberians are a breed mean score of 7 and Mals 13 for a foundation "breed" allowed hip scores up to 20 thats pretty bad IMO.
> 
> All illnesses considered by a vet to be detrimetal hereditary and welfare wise have to be declared at the assessment. Particularly Hips, spinal defects, epilepsy and dwarfism and eye problems Considering some can be later on set and recceisive modes of inheritance it doesnt say they have to actually be tested for to be accepted, then may be too late if they have already been bred from anyway.Plus how do you know if they are carriers, affected, or clear for reccesive hereditary problems especially.
> 
> Presumeably once excepted on the Breed approved registry you can then sell the pups as British Timber dogs, as it starts off with the foundation registry defined as any wolf-a-like dog of any breed or cross resembling a wolf which can be anything breeds or mix wise Im dumbfounded. All puppies are sold as pet only.
> 
> Home


That site... there are no words!!

For a start, they want dogs that look like wolves... but the 'breed standard' will accept dogs with blue eyes?

After looking at the 'committee' page I'm even more confused. It seems that they're mostly 'Northern Inuit' people. Are they abandoning trying to get NI's registered or what?


----------



## Sled dog hotel

leashedForLife said:


> Godawful - i wonder if the KC can take out some Public-Service Ads?...


Trouble is people believe the hype and think they are buying into something wolf type and unique. Not just a cross or mix.

There are also Utonagans, Tamaskans, Northern Inuits, all founded on mixes of GSD, Malamute and siberian Huskies too. Here anyway.

ETA there is a breeder in wales, who used to breed Malamutes, by the bucket load, and now has a site Breeding "Huskamutes"
as people wanted a Malamute with Blue eyes.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

sharloid said:


> That site... there are no words!!
> 
> For a start, they want dogs that look like wolves... but the 'breed standard' will accept dogs with blue eyes?
> 
> After looking at the 'committee' page I'm even more confused. It seems that they're mostly 'Northern Inuit' people. Are they abandoning trying to get NI's registered or what?


Its just a pile of Pants!!

Northern Inuits, Tamaskans, Utonagans all originated the same. Apparently from what I can make out the Utonagans and Northern Inuits started out the same and then shot off at different tangents. I didnt spot that as i didnt read all the Blurb on the comittee, the registry bit was enough to send my BP up and utter a string of four letter obcenities tbh


----------



## Sled dog hotel

leashedForLife said:


> Godawful - i wonder if the KC can take out some Public-Service Ads?...


I doubt if they will do anything sadly. The people who used to churn out the Malamutes and now breeding Huskamutes, Sibe/Mal Crosses. Used to KC reg all the malamutes.

When I Got Kobi my only one who wasnt a rescue I got the 3 monthly breed supplement as a keepsake as all his siblings where in there.Kobi Didnt come from them I hasten to add, just having a nosey thorough the breed supplement you could soon spot the ones churning out pups, and the above now breeding Huskamutes was one.

He is 7 in may so this was in 2006.
In the space of barely 3 months they bred 5 Litters of Malamutes total of 37 Puppies. 4 litters were bred within 2 months 
4 Litters they used the same sire, the last probably because the poor dog was exhausted they used another sire for one litter. 3 Litters were registed by the Husband under a mix of names, 2 Litters were registed in the wifes name under their affix. But its the same people and kennel.

Born 09/05/06
8 Pups.

Born 23/07/06
5 pups

Born 24/05/06
6 pups. Above 3 registered by the husband no affix all same sire.

Born 12/05/06
8 Pups again same sire as above.

Born 16/06/06
10 pups different sire, these last two registered by the wife under the kennel affix.


----------



## leashedForLife

Sled dog hotel said:


> The people who used to churn out the Malamutes [are?] now breeding Huskamutes, Sibe/Mal Crosses.
> [they] Used to KC reg all the malamutes.
> 
> When I Got Kobi, my only [non-rescue], I got the 3 monthly breed supplement as a keepsake
> as all his siblings were in there. Kobi Didnt come from them I hasten to add, just having a nosey through
> the breed supplement -- you could soon spot the ones churning out pups, & the above now breeding Huskamutes
> was one.
> 
> He'll be 7-YO in May, so this was in 2006.
> In... barely 3-mos, they bred 5 Litters of Malamutes, a total of 37 Pups.
> 4 litters were bred within 2 months.
> 4 Litters they used the same sire; the last [probably because the poor dog was exhausted], they used another sire
> for one litter. 3 Litters were registed by the Husband under a mix of names, 2 Litters were registed in the wife's
> name under their affix. But it's the same people and kennel.
> 
> Born 09/05/06
> 8 Pups.
> 
> Born 23/07/06
> 5 pups
> 
> Born 24/05/06
> 6 pups. Above 3 registered by the husband no affix all same sire.
> 
> Born 12/05/06
> 8 Pups again same sire as above.
> 
> Born 16/06/06
> 10 pups different sire, these last two registered by the wife under the kennel affix.


jeebus. Words fail.


----------



## Misi

So what are British Timber Dogs a combination of?

Over here, Czechoslovakian wolf dogs seem to be gaining popularity. We were at a show at the weekend that had a CWD special and there were loads there! They were really nice, I have to say.


----------



## sharloid

Misi said:


> So what are British Timber Dogs a combination of?
> 
> Over here, Czechoslovakian wolf dogs seem to be gaining popularity. We were at a show at the weekend that had a CWD special and there were loads there! They were really nice, I have to say.


It seems for their 'breeding programme' they accept any dog that looks slightly wolf-like.



> As we introduce foundation dogs over the next few years from other wolf look alike breeds ie. Northern Inuit, Utonagan, crossed with breeds believed to have been introduced at the beginning of wolf look alike's ie. German Shepherd, Malamute and Husky, our dogs will vary in looks.Our aim is to have healthy wolf look alike dogs


.

There's a 'breed standard' page on the website.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

leashedForLife said:


> jeebus. Words fail.


Problem is if you read their website, it sounds like they do all the right things and are caring breeders and show their kennel/breeding establishment licence, a couple of pics of the kennels, and a puppy contract.

No mention of health testing though and considering Mals and sibes have a lot of the same problems in both breeds there is not even a mention of those.

They say that all the parents are pure pedigree KC registered champ Blood lines, perfect tempeerament socialised with family and other dogs and kids and are home reared as part of the family.

If they are still breeding at the rate they did with the Mals in the breed supplement I would like to see someone with 37 pups and so many litters in such a short space of time, with more then one litter on the ground at once home rear so many.

You can see why so many people go to these establishments thinking they have done all the relevant research the way it reads.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

Misi said:


> So what are British Timber Dogs a combination of?
> 
> Over here, Czechoslovakian wolf dogs seem to be gaining popularity. We were at a show at the weekend that had a CWD special and there were loads there! They were really nice, I have to say.


The czech wolf dogs, were started in 1955 in Czechoslovakia and were orginally bred from 48 working line German shepherd dogs crossed with 4 carpathian wolves. They were originally breed for Border patrols. So there is actually wolf in them but way back and the breed was prodominately GSD even at the start. They are a pretty long established recognised breed at least in some countries and by kennel clubs. They do look uniform too as you would expect from a Breed.

British Timber dogs, along with Northerin inuits, Tamaskans, Utonagans came from a mix of GSD, Siberian Husky and Malamute predominently. Although the data says that they also orginated from about 5 imported Inuit types that were then mixed with the varying amounts of the above breeds for the NI and Utonagan anyway. Although they all seem to have their own societies or breed clubs, as far as I know or they certainly were not recognised by any Kennel Clubs as a breed. Most seem to look different in the main, some look prodominently GSD, others more Siberian like, and some more Malamute like.

I think now that as with the Labradoodles, not all are straight crosses/mixes
They do breed Labradoodles to Labradoodles and same with the Tamaskans, Utonagans and Northern Inuits in some cases.


----------



## LouJ69

Northern Inuit - Pet Encyclopedia

Here's some more information about how the Northern Inuit came about-this is mostly from the site of the person who originally bred them-Julie Kelham. 
What basically happened was that certain members of the Northern Inuit Society wanted to make changes to the NI which was felt to be unnecessary by the other members of the NIS. These people split off from the NIS and bred their own breeds-Tamaskan, British Inuit, Untonagan etc.

:smile5:


----------



## LostGirl

its the stupid people who breed recently on one of the pet pages on facebook someone was found out to have bred their mal (or wolf dog to them) to a staff- one of the main problems being was after they had bred her and sold her puppies (for £250 each) she was only 14months old so im guessing she was bred at 10-11months old  she was brought for £150 they were trying to sell her for £600 

its the people like them that are doing the damage  

he didn't even know her breed, just called her a wolf dog she did her job gave them money and out she went as soon as she could with the words on her add " can give you many litters as shes young" shocking


----------



## Jenna500

Don't forget to include the British Inuit in all that too. 

I had one - did all the research, thought I'd found a reputable breeder who seemed to care what she bred/who she sold to (I know they're not KC registered but there are still good breeders of 'crossbreeds' out there). Spent over a year getting to know her and her dogs before the right pup came along.

She died at 4 years old of genetic abnormalities. 

And that's what really gets me with this 'churn 'em out and make money' culture, and OMG, let's just breed for looks shall we? It's not only that so many end up in rescue because people don't do their research, there are so many out there with health issues because nobody gives a stuff about that side of things! 

*rant over*


----------



## lostbear

These are going to be more good dogs ruined in health and temperament by these @rseholes who just want money, money, money - it breaks my heart. Dogs ask so little of us - feed me, walk me, love me - and not even in that order - and look how they are treated.

I get so MAD!

And worse - these are powerful, intelligent, independent , high energy dogs with a strong prey drive - if an animal like this gets out, or is dumped, and starts roaming the streets can you imagine the damage it could do - to other animals, to people, and to the reputation of the breed?


----------



## Sled dog hotel

Jenna500 said:


> Don't forget to include the British Inuit in all that too.
> 
> I had one - did all the research, thought I'd found a reputable breeder who seemed to care what she bred/who she sold to (I know they're not KC registered but there are still good breeders of 'crossbreeds' out there). Spent over a year getting to know her and her dogs before the right pup came along.
> 
> She died at 4 years old of genetic abnormalities.
> 
> And that's what really gets me with this 'churn 'em out and make money' culture, and OMG, let's just breed for looks shall we? It's not only that so many end up in rescue because people don't do their research, there are so many out there with health issues because nobody gives a stuff about that side of things!
> 
> *rant over*


Sadly in spite of what a lot of people may think crosses don't automatically mean health. Whatever you breed be it a pedigree dog or a cross, the pups are only going to be as healthy and genetic defect free as the parents, grand parents and whats come before those too.

Ive got a Mal/sibe mix from an RSPCA litter of pups, who I adopted at 12 weeks old. 5 were born, 4 survived she and two of the brothers have auto immune hypo thyroid and one of the brothers that also has the hypo thyroid, had congenital porto systemic shunt too.The other brother with it has struvite crstals too. All three are doing well on thyroid hormone replacement and will be on it for life and the other boy, had two ops to repair the shunt at great cost and lots of worry about him to the owner I might add as symptoms began and diagnosis was in the 14 days when the insurance hadn't yet kicked in. Struvite crystals are the ones that can be controlled by diet, but he too is going to have the problem and its going to need controlling for life.


----------



## Wyrekin

I have the result of someone's attempt to create a wolf dog lookalike. He ended up in rescue at a year old and spent 6 months in kennels where he really struggled. The staff did everything they could for him but the stress of the environment just brought on more and more behavioural issues. 

Almost a year ago I brought him home and it has been a long road. When he first arrived he made daily improvements but had to be taught how to settle down. He is high energy, high drive and in the right circumstances he can be very predatory. 

I believe I really would have struggled to care for him if it hadn't been for the help of my other pup who helped him to burn energy off. I'm lucky that he takes a lot from his GSD side so I have pretty good recall on him.

It saddens me that there are others out there like my boy, going through similar traumas all because people like how they look but haven't thought about their needs. I thought long and hard before taking him on and there were still moments when I regretted it.

Now I wouldn't change him for the world.


----------



## TorrieRacette

lol! they just look beautiful to me, i liked them a lot only wish to have some of them with ,me


----------



## catzrule

wolf dogs can be extremely difficult to train and depending on how much wolf they have in them, dangerous, too. I would never sell or recommend getting a wolf hybrid just because they look cool and the prize is right.

some of the states in the US now forbid the breeding and selling of these dogs , and looking at all the wolf dogs that sit in shelters or are put down, I can only hope that this ban will affect the entire US soon!


----------

