# Sticky  Newbies: A Guide to the Dog Subforums



## LinznMilly

Hi, welcome to Dog Chat. We like dog pics and puppy pics and funny anecdotes about your dogs.  Feel free to browse some of our existing threads - come and join us on the Random Dog Chat thread, get to know us and introduce us to your new best friend, take part in our weekly photo competition (but be quick because only the first fifteen posts qualify), or make us laugh with your post on the "Review your dog", thread. 

Now for the serious stuff.

More often that we'd like, a newbie signs up, posts a thread, and gets some serious backlash. They retaliate, saying they wanted support and understanding, and calling other members offensive or rude, or sarcastic, and so on, ad infinitum and the thread descends into chaos, with name calling and accusations until it inevitably gets closed.

Chances are, the newbie has unintentionally hit a flashpoint - they've said something that automatically gets the regulars' backs up. This thread is an attempt to explain what some of those flashpoints are, why we react the way we do, and what you can do to help yourself.

First of all: Before we go any further, all threads belong to the forum. Any member can create any thread they like, so long as it's inside the rules, but they cannot dictate who replies or what they say. You have a right to create a thread, but as soon as it's posted, literally every other member has a right to post. Telling people not to reply or to just answer your question, will result in the inevitable reply "You don't have the right to tell me what I can and can't post". And the member saying that is correct. Likewise, getting irritable with them, telling them to "jog on", or words to that effect won't go down well.

Secondly: We're here for the love of dogs. Dogs come first on this forum. Human emotion comes second. If you come posting because you've just got a puppy/dog and are struggling with it, or if you've recently lost your dog, or had it put to sleep, you will be supported and treated sympathetically. We're not monsters. Promise. 

If you are genuinely posting for advice and are _open_ to that advice, regardless of whether or not it's what you want to hear, you will be greeted with open arms and receive the advice you need. You'd be such a rare individual that you'll actually be thanked.

If, however, you post because you bought a puppy, couldn't cope, sold it to the highest bidder and come on here crying your eyes out because you miss the puppy and want it back, the answers will be somewhat harsher. I'll save you some time and tell you that the answer is "No - you can't go and get the puppy back. It isn't yours anymore.". The cliché "Act in haste, repent at leisure" springs to mind. Doesn't matter what you say - if you do sell to the highest bidder, it's as clear as a sunny day that you thought first and foremost about getting your money back and the welfare and the future of the dog didn't even enter your head. On a dog forum - are you really that shocked that we're so appalled by your behaviour?

If you've bred your bitch and now she's in heat again and you want to breed again, well, all I can say then is, get your suit of armour on. Yes, I'm a Mod. Yes, I'm here to help with the smooth running of the forum. Yes, I'm here to stop things from getting out of hand. But if you're so downright greedy that your poor bitch is simply a cash cow, sorry, but I'll not only stand by and let the regulars tear you limb from limb (figuratively speaking, of course), I'll join them.

When it comes to buying a puppy, it pays to do your research. We're more than willing to help you whittle down a shortlist until you find your perfect breed. We'll show you how to find ethical breeders and what to look for. We'll point out the difference between health checks and health tests and how and why they cannot be used interchangeably. We'll coo with you over the resulting puppy pics and tell you he or she is gorgeous. We'll (jokingly), tell you to stick a stamp on his/her butt and post it to us. We'll even help you choose puppy names.

But if you start a thread about wanting to know where to find breeders of teacup cavajackadooodledooadorashits (don't Google it - I made it up) because you saw one in the street and now you want one, chances are, it isn't going to go down well.

1) Because it's abundantly clear you haven't given dog ownership any more thought than a child would. You've literally done the equivalent of tugging our hands, pointing to the cute doggy, and gone, "I want that one!"
2) Because such dogs are mongrels that have been given fancy names so that the greeders can charge through the nose for them. Yeah - they see you coming, and sadly, so do we. _They_ rub their money-grubbing hands together. _We_ lose a little more of the will to live.​
So when you post, expecting to be guided to thoughtful breeders who have their dogs' and puppies' health at heart, don't be surprised when we tell you that such dogs are from puppy farms and back yard breeders who breed indiscriminately any intact bitch with the nearest available intact male, and asked what exactly it is about the parent breeds you like. Saying you saw that mix in the street and will only accept that mix is a major red flag. It proves you're only thing about the aesthetics of the dog. That isn't going to go down well. And, to add injury to insult (I'm paraphrasing, I know), the dog you get might be the exact cross you were looking for - but look nothing like the dog you wanted originally. Biology isn't a photocopier.

Ethical breeders breed from carefully selected dogs and bitches. Their dogs have all available health tests carried out and are proven in some way -, the show ring, working trials, obedience, etc. The breeder will be selective over who gets his or her puppies and will probably ask questions about your your lifestyle, your home environment, and so on. They'll not only be willing to show you the health tests results from their dogs, they'll want to shout about them from the rooftops. They'll carefully match you to the puppy most likely to meet your needs, give lifetime backup, and of course you should always be able to see mum with puppies - and before you say "Lockdown" - yeah. We know. Guess which type of breeder is using that as a ready-made excuse?  Can't see mum with pups? walk away. It's that simple.

Speaking of lockdown (and this has been covered in other lockdown stickies). Look. We know. You're stuck at home all day and you're bored out of you tree. You use your exercise allowance and start thinking about a walking/jogging/running buddy. Great, fine. Run with your sister/brother/partner/mum/dad/aunt/best friend (keeping socially distant of course, unless you live-in the same household or are in a social bubble). Don't be thinking about a dog unless you're looking ahead at the next 12+, years. You're not the first one to be thinking of a new pet to keep you company during lockdown. You're not even the millionth.

Problem is, many of those looking to get a dog in lockdown are generally not thinking _beyond_ lockdown - when things return to normal, people go back to school and work and a puppy that's never been alone starts screaming/howling the house down/chewing the walls, doors, carpets, their crates/starts literally crapping and peeing themselves in their anxiety.When daydreaming of long strolls on the beach in the warm sunshine morphs into picking up the poop that your dog had deposited on the shiny wet pavement in torrential rain in the middle of winter. These dogs then get passed from one house to the other, to the other until that young dog, barely a teenager, finally gets handed in to rescue, broken and lost and wondering what the heck it's done wrong.

We seen it coming. We could see it in the sudden, sharp puppy price hikes, we could see it in the increase of footfall on this site (and others), we could see it in the sudden rise in numbers of calls to rescue (for which some of us volunteer). And with a good grasp of knowledge on the state of humanity, we could see the fallout too.

Many of us here who are in the market for a/nother dog are waiting for that fallout. When suddenly supply once again outstrips demand and the prices of puppies plummet like a stone and rescues are full to bursting.

The only dogs that are handbag dogs . . . Are stuffed and have batteries in their chests. Toy breed dogs are still dogs. They deserve to be treated like dogs.

Finally (for now).

If you post to moan about that other owner on the field who gave you short shrift after you dog charged across the field to "play" or "say hello", our sympathies will lie with that other owner.

For so many of us, this is a problem that bleeds into real life. Your dog isn't "friendly" - it's obnoxious. It doesn't matter what you say from across the field (assuming the other owner could even hear you), a dog charging at full throttle, tongue and teeth on full display, jowls flapping in the wind - is a freaking scary sight. Don't believe me? Try standing in front of a sprinting Lurcher, or a charging Rottweiler. If your dog is also growling or barking at the other dog, and the other owner threatens to whack it with a stick, or tells you in no uncertain terms to get control over your dog, we'll stand shoulder to shoulder with them. If they also happen to join (unlikely, but stranger things have happened), we'll even give them tips on how to panic you into controlling your dog. It'll involve big sticks.

These are some of the main flashpoints. Unfortunately, we see far too many threads that fit into one or more of these categories - your post probably isn't the first one of that nature that we've seen that day or week. We don't want to come across as rude, or obnoxious, or sarcastic, or as a pack of "bullies". We're just tired, and jaded and fed up of the irresponsible breeding and buying of puppies, that then get thrown away (handed in to rescue or sold to the highest bidder) when the novelty has worn off.


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## O2.0

Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!


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## lorilu

It's a good rant, sadly the ones who need it won't read it. (or if they do, it won't apply to them)


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## SusieRainbow

lorilu said:


> It's a good rant, sadly the ones who need it won't read it. (or if they do, it won't apply to them)


Sadly I agree. It's never 'their fault'!


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## LinznMilly

lorilu said:


> It's a good rant, sadly the ones who need it won't read it. (or if they do, it won't apply to them)





SusieRainbow said:


> Sadly I agree. It's never 'their fault'!


Yup, I know. But it needed to be said.


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## SusieRainbow

LinznMilly said:


> Yup, I know. But it needed to be said.


Indeed it did Linz, and very well said too.


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## mrs phas

Fantastic post


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## Siskin

Wonderful. Should be an informed read to all newbies before they are able to post on the dog forums part. No idea if that is achievable, but wouldn’t it be good if it could


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## LinznMilly

Siskin said:


> Wonderful. Should be an informed read to all newbies before they are able to post on the dog forums part. No idea if that is achievable, but wouldn't it be good if it could


That could prevent a lot more of the posts and posters this thread is aimed at, but might be up to admin.

Great idea, though.


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## rona

Siskin said:


> Wonderful. Should be an informed read to all newbies before they are able to post on the dog forums part. No idea if that is achievable, but wouldn't it be good if it could


What worries me, is it will put genuine people off. I'd rather read and react to 100 idiots if one genuine person gets helped amongst that


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## Silverpaw

Well said.In my opinion,it should help to make people think.Hopefully,some will be able to be a bit more open minded about the points raised than if they had posted first and become instantly defensive.


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## ECT

This is a great post. I know I am probably one of those newbies that hit a nerve with someone in my first post but I took on everything that was said to me and things are (slowly) improving! The advice on here is great and I am always browsing through to get tips on how to help my pup


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## LinznMilly

ECT said:


> I know I am probably one of those newbies that hit a nerve with someone in my first post


Well, that made me curious. 

Nah, you're not one of those who've hit a nerve.  Trust me, you'd know if you had. 

If you need genuine help and advice regarding biting and chewing and a puppy crapping everywhere, crate training etc that's what we're here for. If you already wanted a dog and the perfect dog just happened to be available during lockdown, so be it. If you know what dog ownership entails and have the committment to do your damnedest to make it work, tooth and nail, this thread isn't aimed at you.

If it still doesn't work out and the dog cannot stay in your house (this isn't aimed at you @ECT ) we will advise you to return to breeder or take it to rescue. We will help you through the resulting grief.

But if you get a dog one day and are on the phone to the breeder the next day asking to return it for a refund like a nice outfit for going out in  keep the dog for one week then sell it because you're sick of picking up its poop, then join up and want to know why you can't go and get the pup back, then this thread is directed at you.

But @lorilu and @SusieRainbow are right. Such people won't recognise themselves in these posts. 

So @ECT Welcome to the forum. You're going to fit right in.


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## O2.0

Something else to add. 

This actually happens a lot. Posters ask about one thing and then get annoyed when members reply with seemingly unrelated concerns. 

Here's the thing, behavior doesn't happen in a vacuum. 
Usually there are related factors going on and you can't solve the one without addressing the others. 
For example if you ask about potty training and it turns out you bought your dog from a puppy farm, guess what? Those things are probably related and the conditions of puppy farms are going to come up and will be very relevant to the fact that you're struggling to potty train the pup now. 

Also, if the basics of dog ownership are going to be a hardship for you, like walking in bad weather, cleaning up vomit at 3am, or not being able to sit on the sofa without company, don't expect a lot of sympathy. I mean we will commiserate about these things and joke about them, but if it's a serious deal breaker that your dog needs significant attention and care, you're not going to get a very understanding response here. We tend to be more 'serious' dog owners who include our dogs as a full part of our life, not relegated to an afterthought in the back yard.


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## Guest

Great post @LinznMilly .

I think also newbies need to understand that we (the regulars on the forum) aren't robots, simply programmed to respond with helpful advice in a kind voice. We have our own experiences and possibly trauma that affect the way we respond to posts. We all have things that hit at nerve, or times when we just can't put our idea across in a kind and caring way, and we all have our limits - we are humans. And we are, essentially, volunteer advisers. We reply to your threads in an attempt (usually!) to help you with your problem, so showing a bit of gratitude doesn't go amiss. We do (usually!) know what we're talking about if we respond to your thread, particularly if 10 people respond with the same thing.

If you want carefully worded advice that comes across professionally without bias, go and employ a professional to help you with your problem!


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## SusieRainbow

McKenzie said:


> Great post @LinznMilly .
> 
> I think also newbies need to understand that we (the regulars on the forum) aren't robots, simply programmed to respond with helpful advice in a kind voice. We have our own experiences and possibly trauma that affect the way we respond to posts. We all have things that hit at nerve, or times when we just can't put our idea across in a kind and caring way, and we all have our limits - we are humans. And we are, essentially, volunteer advisers. We reply to your threads in an attempt (usually!) to help you with your problem, so showing a bit of gratitude doesn't go amiss. We do (usually!) know what we're talking about if we respond to your thread, particularly if 10 people respond with the same thing.
> 
> If you want carefully worded advice that comes across professionally without bias, go and employ a professional to help you with your problem!


You are so right, positive feedback is really appreciated.


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## O2.0

McKenzie said:


> We have our own experiences and possibly trauma that affect the way we respond to posts.


We had some trauma/drama last night, geez! I still can't figure out what triggered it.

Regarding that, newbies, if you see a thread where it seems like folks are overreacting to a new poster, particularly if the thread is locked, know that mods will delete the most aggressive/egregious posts but leave the basic gist of the thread for anyone else who might have similar issues. So the replies you see that seem out of proportion are to rudeness and aggression that you can't see.

Speaking of insults, if you decide you need to insult people who are trying to help you, please try to be creative. We've been called the usual, a lot of which will show up as ******* anyway which doesn't have the same impact. New and creative insults at least have novelty value and show a clever mind, always appreciated. 
Or.... just don't. Walk away from the phone or computer, take a breath, walk the dog, and come back to the thread with a clearer mind and you might see that there is some valuable information on there that you can use. Having a hissy fit and getting banned doesn't help you and your situation, and more importantly won't help your dog.


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## simplysardonic

O2.0 said:


> We had some trauma/drama last night, geez! I still can't figure out what triggered it.
> 
> Regarding that, newbies, if you see a thread where it seems like folks are overreacting to a new poster, particularly if the thread is locked, know that mods will delete the most aggressive/egregious posts but leave the basic gist of the thread for anyone else who might have similar issues. So the replies you see that seem out of proportion are to rudeness and aggression that you can't see.
> 
> Speaking of insults, if you decide you need to insult people who are trying to help you, please try to be creative. We've been called the usual, *a lot of which will show up as ******** anyway which doesn't have the same impact. New and creative insults at least have novelty value and show a clever mind, always appreciated.
> Or.... just don't. Walk away from the phone or computer, take a breath, walk the dog, and come back to the thread with a clearer mind and you might see that there is some valuable information on there that you can use. Having a hissy fit and getting banned doesn't help you and your situation, and more importantly won't help your dog.


These literally translate as the beeps in TV programmes in my head when I read them.

Being incurably nosy I had a look at the shar pei thread & wow, what a potty mouthed little edgelord (to quote my teenagers)!


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## O2.0

simplysardonic said:


> Being incurably nosy I had a look at the shar pei thread & wow, what a potty mouthed little edgelord (to quote my teenagers)!


Oh I like edgelord  
I feel like @McKenzie and I handled ourselves quite gracefully despite the lack of supervision  
Do we get a cookie?


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## LinznMilly

simplysardonic said:


> These literally translate as the beeps in TV programmes in my head when I read them.
> 
> Being incurably nosy I had a look at the shar pei thread & wow, what a potty mouthed little edgelord (to quote my teenagers)!


I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that.  :Bag


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## simplysardonic

O2.0 said:


> Oh I like edgelord
> I feel like @McKenzie and I handled ourselves quite gracefully despite the lack of supervision
> Do we get a cookie?


I'm afraid I've only got dog biscuits, but fill your boots


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## LinznMilly

O2.0 said:


> Oh I like edgelord
> I feel like @McKenzie and I handled ourselves quite gracefully despite the lack of supervision
> Do we get a cookie?


Fresh out of cookies. Have a lollypop instead;


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## O2.0

LinznMilly said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that.  :Bag


Translates asterixis as beeps or looks at deleted posts  
If I had the power to see deleted post oh heck yeah! Especially since with time zones I often miss the fireworks and just see the aftermath.

ETA the lack of cookies is a serious blow to the service around here. I'll need to speak to a manager please and thank you


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## SusieRainbow

O2.0 said:


> Oh I like edgelord
> I feel like @McKenzie and I handled ourselves quite gracefully despite the lack of supervision
> Do we get a cookie?


Ermmm, where did you expect to find a mod at 3am? All good British mods were tucked up in their beds preparing themselves for another happy day on the forums.
But yes, your conduct was exemplary under such fire and I award you both with a gold star!

( for new overseas visitors it's worth remembering that this is a UK based site and considering the time difference when looking for a response from us)


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## O2.0

SusieRainbow said:


> Ermmm, where did you expect to find a mod at 3am?


Oh no complaints here! I quite like being unsupervised  
You never know I may decide one day to decorate threads with goats while you sleep


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## LinznMilly

O2.0 said:


> Oh no complaints here! I quite like being unsupervised
> You never know I may decide one day to decorate threads with goats while you sleep


Wouldn't put it past you.   :Hilarious


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## Guest

O2.0 said:


> We had some trauma/drama last night, geez! I still can't figure out what triggered it.
> 
> Regarding that, newbies, if you see a thread where it seems like folks are overreacting to a new poster, particularly if the thread is locked, know that mods will delete the most aggressive/egregious posts but leave the basic gist of the thread for anyone else who might have similar issues. So the replies you see that seem out of proportion are to rudeness and aggression that you can't see.
> 
> Speaking of insults, if you decide you need to insult people who are trying to help you, please try to be creative. We've been called the usual, a lot of which will show up as ******* anyway which doesn't have the same impact. New and creative insults at least have novelty value and show a clever mind, always appreciated.
> Or.... just don't. Walk away from the phone or computer, take a breath, walk the dog, and come back to the thread with a clearer mind and you might see that there is some valuable information on there that you can use. Having a hissy fit and getting banned doesn't help you and your situation, and more importantly won't help your dog.


Their descent into vile-ness (is that a word?) happened quite suddenly! It was a bit funny that they kept throwing stuff at us even thought we completely ignored them after they kicked off.

But yes, insults never get you anywhere. It's not like we think 'oh you've sworn at us, clearly we are in the wrong and we will now help you' 



O2.0 said:


> Oh I like edgelord
> I feel like @McKenzie and I handled ourselves quite gracefully despite the lack of supervision
> Do we get a cookie?


I thought we were very restrained!



SusieRainbow said:


> Ermmm, where did you expect to find a mod at 3am? All good British mods were tucked up in their beds preparing themselves for another happy day on the forums.
> But yes, your conduct was exemplary under such fire and I award you both with a gold star!
> 
> ( for new overseas visitors it's worth remembering that this is a UK based site and considering the time difference when looking for a response from us)


Wait, what? You mean you're not on call 24/7?


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## simplysardonic

McKenzie said:


> But yes, insults never get you anywhere. It's not like we think 'oh you've sworn at us, clearly we are in the wrong and we will now help you'


Trouble is, a lot don't want help but affirmation, they maybe know deep down they're on ethically dubious ground but want an echo chamber of yes men.


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## SusieRainbow

McKenzie said:


> Their descent into vile-ness (is that a word?) happened quite suddenly! It was a bit funny that they kept throwing stuff at us even thought we completely ignored them after they kicked off.
> 
> But yes, insults never get you anywhere. It's not like we think 'oh you've sworn at us, clearly we are in the wrong and we will now help you'
> 
> I thought we were very restrained!
> 
> Wait, what? You mean you're not on call 24/7?


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## LinznMilly

McKenzie said:


> Wait, what? You mean you're not on call 24/7?


Only when insomnia kicks in.


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## Guest

LinznMilly said:


> Only when insomnia kicks in.


There needs to be some AH emergency service like at the vets


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## SusieRainbow

McKenzie said:


> There needs to be some AH emergency service like at the vets


Do I hear a volunteer?


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## Guest

SusieRainbow said:


> Do I hear a volunteer?


Walked into that one, didn't I! Sadly I don't think I could live up to the lofty standards of you mods


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## SusieRainbow

McKenzie said:


> Walked into that one, didn't I! Sadly I don't think I could live up to the lofty standards of you mods


As long as you are literate and have cute pets you qualify!:Cat


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## SusieRainbow

O2.0 said:


> Oh no complaints here! I quite like being unsupervised
> You never know I may decide one day to decorate threads with goats while you sleep


That's ok, we can delete them when we get up.


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## bestdoggroomingtips

thank you. I gather a lot of information in this article.


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## Deep

Siskin said:


> Wonderful. Should be an informed read to all newbies before they are able to post on the dog forums part. No idea if that is achievable, but wouldn't it be good if it could


hi. i am a newbie and really want to be a good responsible dog owner. i feel like i have found a new family. Micah is my first dog and I want her to be happyand healthy. thank you for the guidance on ownership, nutrition and posting on this forum. (i was a facebook junkie but i am here because i am happy to accept guidance.

'a wise man takes good counsel'

thank you for this forum and thread x


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## Deep

McKenzie said:


> Great post @LinznMilly .
> 
> I think also newbies need to understand that we (the regulars on the forum) aren't robots, simply programmed to respond with helpful advice in a kind voice. We have our own experiences and possibly trauma that affect the way we respond to posts. We all have things that hit at nerve, or times when we just can't put our idea across in a kind and caring way, and we all have our limits - we are humans. And we are, essentially, volunteer advisers. We reply to your threads in an attempt (usually!) to help you with your problem, so showing a bit of gratitude doesn't go amiss. We do (usually!) know what we're talking about if we respond to your thread, particularly if 10 people respond with the same thing.
> 
> If you want carefully worded advice that comes across professionally without bias, go and employ a professional to help you with your problem!


THANK YOU X


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## Deep

ECT said:


> This is a great post. I know I am probably one of those newbies that hit a nerve with someone in my first post but I took on everything that was said to me and things are (slowly) improving! The advice on here is great and I am always browsing through to get tips on how to help my pup


i hope i also learn and become a good responsible dog owner. sometimes even a newbies' experience might help someone.

please be patient with those of us that are new to ownership and this forum.

love x


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## LinznMilly

Deep said:


> i hope i also learn and become a good responsible dog owner. sometimes even a newbies' experience might help someone.
> 
> please be patient with those of us that are new to ownership and this forum.
> 
> love x


Oh, we are patient with newbies. We do know that everyone has to start off somewhere and we know that newbies probably are going to ask the same round of questions. We're fine with that. All we ask is that newbies are open to that advice, and keep us updated with their progress.

Things typically go south when the newbie has an idea in mind about what they want to hear (or read in this case), and instead of admitting they're disappointed that's not the case, become stubborn or defensive or just outright aggressive.

When I posted this thread, I was trigger stacked. To quote another member it's like adding a bucketful water to a bath that has a clogged plug hole and is already full to the brim. And I wasn't the only one. I felt like I was at the end of my rope and I either put how I felt in writing, or gave up. It's not personal, and it's not directed at every newbie. Just those who want an echo chamber instead of meaningful replies designed to help them.


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