# Border Collie Housing



## mea

Hi there,
I got advised from the Dog Chat part of the forum to come here and ask some questions 
We are getting a border collie and hopefully to become a working dog. So we are looking at outside housing such as kennels. He will have 3 acres to roam around and was wondering what would you suggest for housing?
Some people say a large shed-like house with run whereas others say that bigger house is worse as the smaller it is the dog will be able to regulate its body temp and keep warm. So i was looking at insulated dog kennels such as Accessories for Trixie Dog Kennel Niko: Great Deals on Dog Kennels at zooplus

But what other dog housing ideas would be better?
Many thanks!
Mea.


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## Mese

Are you serious ?
Theres hardly any room for the dog to move or entertain himself , put a collie in that and they will go insane 

If you plan on keeping the dog outdoors he will need a suitably sized kennel/run , as long as he is provided with bedding/blankets he will be warm , and the run area will let him be able to keep himself from being bored to death

Heres a couple of links google threw up

Cheap Dog Kennels For Sale - Kennels and Run, Cabins, Heaters, Panels, Accessories

Garden Dog Runs and Kennels, Dog Runs for Sale, Cheap Dog Runs, Tanalised garden workshops, Garden sheds, garden potting sheds, Workshops, fence panels, & Summer Houses

seriously , if you plan on the dog being an outside dog then you MUST get him decent housing that will not only keep him safe and secure but will allow him the freedom to play and keep him happy

By the way , are you aware BC's dont do very well in kennels 
They are very social dogs that need constant interaction


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## alyssa_liss

sorry cant help my BC lives in our house and has cuddles on the settee, i couldnt imagine him being outside , but i know everyone is different.

however that first kennel is tiny!!


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## mea

He would have a fenced off 3 acre land for his 'run'. I just wanted to look at housing to go in to sleep and a lot of people said to get a small house for the BC to be able to keep its body temp. I just got a lot of advice which confused me a lot of what to get  Oh and that link is just a pic of how it is in its small size, theres Large and X-Large sizes. 
But going to do more house searching!!
Oh and we live very rural so theft of the BC is a very low possibility.


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## Sleeping_Lion

I have Labs, and they are incredibly social! Despite Indie being overweight, she feels it's appropriate to sit on my knee, even weighing just under 6 stone! Anyway, I digress, my two have been brought up into a house, lived in kennels, and then gone back to living in a house. 

My view may be controversial, but dogs are that, not humans, and it's us that form the attachments that make problems for them, not the other way around. If you've going to keep one dog outside, the only proviso (other than a very secure run) is a half height sleeping box, rather than one you can walk in, as this does help hold the heat down with the dog


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## mea

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I have Labs, and they are incredibly social! Despite Indie being overweight, she feels it's appropriate to sit on my knee, even weighing just under 6 stone! Anyway, I digress, my two have been brought up into a house, lived in kennels, and then gone back to living in a house.
> 
> My view may be controversial, but dogs are that, not humans, and it's us that form the attachments that make problems for them, not the other way around. If you've going to keep one dog outside, the only proviso (other than a very secure run) is a* half height sleeping box, rather than one you can walk in, as this does help hold the heat down with the dog*


See thats what I got advised to do! And also to get an insulated one too just incase it turns a bit chilly. So been trying to find the most suited one. 
The link I gave earlier just shows the smaller version of the kennel, you can get these sizes:
L: 104 x 66 x 70cm (L x W x H) 
XL: 116 x 76 x 82cm (L x W x H)

If I was to get a secure run and also a kennel after, which size would you recommend at all?


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## Sleeping_Lion

mea said:


> See thats what I got advised to do! And also to get an insulated one too just incase it turns a bit chilly. So been trying to find the most suited one.
> The link I gave earlier just shows the smaller version of the kennel, you can get these sizes:
> L: 104 x 66 x 70cm (L x W x H)
> XL: 116 x 76 x 82cm (L x W x H)
> 
> If I was to get a secure run and also a kennel after, which size would you recommend at all?


I've used Timberbuild before, they are really good, but one thing I would say is I wouldn't keep one dog outside kennelled on their own. So maybe, with your aims to compete, it might be an idea to take on a second dog, possibly a rescue (please, chuckle, not that I push, push, and push rescue) to help keep that box warm for both of them.

Both of my girls went through snow drifts of approx 4'ft in height, and several months of cold, wet weather in a timber build kennel last winter. Can't recommend them highly enough tbh!


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## mea

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I've used Timberbuild before, they are really good, but one thing I would say is I wouldn't keep one dog outside kennelled on their own. So maybe, with your aims to compete, it might be an idea to take on a second dog, possibly a rescue (please, chuckle, not that I push, push, and push rescue) to help keep that box warm for both of them.
> 
> Both of my girls went through snow drifts of approx 4'ft in height, and several months of cold, wet weather in a timber build kennel last winter. Can't recommend them highly enough tbh!


Thank you very much!
You been really helpful.
A lot of people would jump down my throat if I said a half-height kennel, cos straight away you think 'doesn't it need to be MUCH bigger,like a shed!' Cos thats what I thought too, originally we were going to actually buy a shed and convert it! But now a lot of articles say half-height to help keep them warm and regulate their temp, which does sound true when thinking about it!
Thanks again


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## Sleeping_Lion

mea said:


> Thank you very much!
> You been really helpful.
> A lot of people would jump down my throat if I said a half-height kennel, cos straight away you think 'doesn't it need to be MUCH bigger,like a shed!' Cos thats what I thought too, originally we were going to actually buy a shed and convert it! But now a lot of articles say half-height to help keep them warm and regulate their temp, which does sound true when thinking about it!
> Thanks again


It's not the size of the sleeping box, but the exercise run that may cause you problems. If you have a routine where by you have the chance to include enough walking/training, it isn't a problem, but confining any working dog to a small run can cause problems. As I said, have a look at timberbuild, if you feel like you like their products, they would be happy to adapt them I'm sure, to include a run that's larger than the normal kennel size run, if you want to leave them free to roam as it were, during some periods


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## mea

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It's not the size of the sleeping box, but the exercise run that may cause you problems. If you have a routine where by you have the chance to include enough walking/training, it isn't a problem, but confining any working dog to a small run can cause problems. As I said, have a look at timberbuild, if you feel like you like their products, they would be happy to adapt them I'm sure, to include a run that's larger than the normal kennel size run, if you want to leave them free to roam as it were, during some periods


Well we are determined to walk him at least once a day and also let him out to the land to run as much as he likes!  Thats why I didn't think too much with the run as the land would be his 'run' with plenty of walks and exercise. 
Do Timeberbuild have half-height kennels? just looking through their lovely website.


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## Sleeping_Lion

mea said:


> Well we are determined to walk him at least once a day and also let him out to the land to run as much as he likes!  Thats why I didn't think too much with the run as the land would be his 'run' with plenty of walks and exercise.
> Do Timeberbuild have half-height kennels? just looking through their lovely website.


They do, they have a custom build feature as well, and they're not that expensive for good quality kennels


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## mea

Brill, thanks again


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## Mese

BC's have a highly different nature to Labs , for a start they are more excitable & love being on the go and having something to do and most important of all they adore company

I cant stress enough that kenneling a BC in a small area for hours on end is a bad idea , I dont care how much land they have to run on when they are released being cooped up isnt a good idea for this breed
kenneling two in that same small area is a recipe for disaster imo


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## Devil-Dogz

I think its disgusting to put a dog in something that to me is even to small as a rabbit hutch. - we have domesticated dogs, to live by us humans, work for us, act as companions and the like. I get that people want to have 'working dogs' and will see them differently to us that want fire side pets - after all they are looking for something thats going to be useful to them for working purposes, therefore I find it even more important that these dogs have a warm, safe and secure area of a decent size. - after all these dogs do their owners/masters. - I dont think it is safe for a dog to free roam land while no one is present. - nor do I find a shuddy little wooden box, a safe, secure and suitable enviroment for ANY dog. I do find it sad that others disagree, but hey we all have our own views!


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## Sleeping_Lion

Mese said:


> BC's have a highly different nature to Labs , for a start they are more excitable & love being on the go and having something to do and most important of all they adore company
> 
> I cant stress enough that kenneling a BC in a small area for hours on end is a bad idea , I dont care how much land they have to run on when they are released being cooped up isnt a good idea for this breed
> kenneling two in that same small area is a recipe for disaster imo


OK hands up, I don't have BC's myself, but I have known people with them in the past, that have competed at working trials, and they have had no problems leaving their dogs for a couple or few hours at a time, in their own space. I do understand what you're saying, but having seen the dogs I have, that are calm, undestructive, then I have to believe that not all BC's are this ticking time bomb waiting to eat their way to freedom through a concrete compound, if you see what I mean, then surely there are those that are calm, and wouldn't worry about being in their own company??? Yes, no doubt there are some, and I've met a couple, that are completely mad, but then that's down to researching where you buy your pup from, surely?


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## Sleeping_Lion

Devil-Dogz said:


> I think its disgusting to put a dog in something that to me is even to small as a rabbit hutch. - we have domesticated dogs, to live by us humans, work for us, act as companions and the like. I get that people want to have 'working dogs' and will see them differently to us that want fire side pets - after all they are looking for something thats going to be useful to them for working purposes, therefore I find it even more important that these dogs have a warm, safe and secure area of a decent size. - after all these dogs do their owners/masters. - I dont think it is safe for a dog to free roam land while no one is present. - nor do I find a shuddy little wooden box, a safe, secure and suitable enviroment for ANY dog. I do find it sad that others disagree, but hey we all have our own views!


I hope you're not pointing that at me? The timberbuilds I've used in the past, and would use again if I had to, are bl**dy good quality and a very good size.

Can anyone tell me what the difference is, if you give your dog enough exercise, food and it happens to crash out on a wooden shelf in a kennel, or the floor of the utility room, why if that happens to be under a roof of a house that proves you are a better dog owner?


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## Devil-Dogz

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I hope you're not pointing that at me? The timberbuilds I've used in the past, and would use again if I had to, are bl**dy good quality and a very good size.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what the difference is, if you give your dog enough exercise, food and it happens to crash out on a wooden shelf in a kennel, or the floor of the utility room, why if that happens to be under a roof of a house that proves you are a better dog owner?


nope I didnt point that at you - but did know my post wouldnt go down to well 
I was talking in regards to the links posted, and the other on the previous thread.
To me the main concern is the way in which a dog is kenneled. I have no issues with people kenneling dogs, as long as their not just 'shoved' out the way. - what I am concerned about is a suitable kennel being provided, one that offers enough space for shelter, and a decent sized run - so that the dog is secure and safe if no one is around, a kennel that is well made and will protect the dog from the harsher weather, and is made out of suitable materials that is not going to cause harm to the dog incase of it becoming distressed/bored and trying to get out. ect' - I know people that kennel their dogs have some awsome kennels. - The dogs are no less loved, and I have never and would never say anyone that kennels their dogs are less of an owner than them that have them in the home - just happens to be my preference.


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## Sleeping_Lion

Devil-Dogz said:


> nope I didnt point that at you - but did no my post wouldnt go down to well
> I was talking in regards to the links posted, and the other on the previous thread.
> To me the main concern is the way in which a dog is kenneled. I have no issues with people kenneling dogs, as long as their not just 'shoved' out the way. - what I am concerned about is a suitable kennel being provided, one that offers enough space for shelter, and a decent sized run - so that the dog is secure and safe if no one is around, a kennel that is well made and will protect the dog from the harsher weather, and is made out of suitable materials that is not going to cause harm to the dog incase of it becoming distressed/bored and trying to get out. ect'


Thought it was a bit odd 

The thing is, done right, kennelling dogs is a really good way of keeping them, the same way as you stable a horse, it's actually very appropriate. Ok, so dogs can adapt better to living indoors than something like a horse, but these are animals, and it's use who impose the human range of emotions on them, that leads us to think kennelling bad, house good. Where as actually, it just isn't that simple. It's another one of those grey areas.

I know loads of people who keep their dogs kennelled, and they pretty much tend to be working dogs, they love their life, and they live for going out and doing stuff with their owners. And now I know this will cause controversy, but how many posts are there from pet owners, whose dogs aren't interested, and are out of control, and yet they are, essentially pampered pets.

There was a good post recently about earning free time off lead, when in actual fact, with dogs, they should earn their living full stop. Not in a bad way, but dogs, and all animals are competitive, to give them a free rewarding life style, to me, doesn't do them any favours.


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## Mese

Sleeping_Lion said:


> OK hands up, I don't have BC's myself, but I have known people with them in the past, that have competed at working trials, and they have had no problems leaving their dogs for a couple or few hours at a time, in their own space. I do understand what you're saying, but having seen the dogs I have, that are calm, undestructive, then I have to believe that not all BC's are this ticking time bomb waiting to eat their way to freedom through a concrete compound, if you see what I mean, then surely there are those that are calm, and wouldn't worry about being in their own company??? Yes, no doubt there are some, and I've met a couple, that are completely mad, but then that's down to researching where you buy your pup from, surely?


I'm not saying that there aren't calm BC's ... I have two myself , one farm bred from working parents and one rescue (I also have one very hyper girlie also from a farm and working parents)

My problem with this is that the BC in question wont be given a decent sized run when he/she is kennelled 
and even with the best intentions many things could happen where the dog would be left , say in the case of an emergency ... that would cause distress to the dog , distress that would be lessened if he/she had a decent sized run available

I have owned this breed now for well over 20 years , so I think I know a fair bit about them , and imo kennelling a breed like a border collie in such a small space with no run is nothing short of cruelty


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## Devil-Dogz

I agree when done right kennelling can be good, and the dogs dont suffer. I know people that kennel, their dogs are still loved, and part of the family but are there for a reason. - I have no problem with kennelling dogs, if its a suitable kennel/run.
- I tent not to put human emotions on dogs, but I feel the wooden box thing, in the middle of some land is not a suitable, secure or safe way of housing any dog.
- oh yes there are many pampered pets, out of control causing all sorts of problems, thats also no quality of life for a dog in my eyes.

I cant agree that dogs should earn their living, its comment like that - that you hear from PFs.  (I know thats not the context in which you wrote it though) 
- However I can agree that giving them a free rewarding life style, does them no favours. - There should be boundaries.


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## Jenny Olley

Sleeping_Lion said:


> OK hands up, I don't have BC's myself, but I have known people with them in the past, that have competed at working trials, and they have had no problems leaving their dogs for a couple or few hours at a time, in their own space. I do understand what you're saying, but having seen the dogs I have, that are calm, undestructive, then I have to believe that not all BC's are this ticking time bomb waiting to eat their way to freedom through a concrete compound, if you see what I mean, then surely there are those that are calm, and wouldn't worry about being in their own company??? Yes, no doubt there are some, and I've met a couple, that are completely mad, but then that's down to researching where you buy your pup from, surely?


I think it may be my dogs you mean, the working trials ones, not the ones eating the concrete. 
They do come in the house, but also have kennels and runs outside. If I were going out and leaving the dogs on a beautiful sunny day like today, how much nicer and more natural to be outside than stuck in a house.

I don't think you need a large run for the dog they are not in them 24/7 like in rescue kennels, and both my dogs and others I have observed do the same thing in a run as they do in the house if there is nothing going on they sleep.


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## Moobli

When you say you want a BC as a "working dog" - do you mean to work sheep?


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## Longton Flyball

I think you should assess the dog when you have it to whether it would suit a kennel. All dogs including border collies are different.

Our Clover hated being in a crate and even hated having run of upstairs with dog gates as she seemed to be very destructive but since she has run of the house she is much happier and less distressed.

Duke likes comfort and if we put him in a kennel he would end up with the poops as he would be stressed.

Both Duke and Clover came from working families and both families lived in large barn areas with enough blankets and hay to keep them warm but also weren't only dogs.

Border collies need interaction even if it's for working just remember their brains are always working a lonely, bored unhappy collie is usually a problem collie.


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## Leanne77

Out of the 3 of my dogs, it's the collies who would do ok in a kennel environment. In fact, Jed hates being in the house and always opts to go outside, even if it's freezing cold and blowing a gale (I dont allow him obviously) and Jessie was kenneled in the rescue and was perfectly chilled out there. Flynn would go bananas!

There are hundreds of collies all over the land whom are kenneled and i'm pretty sure those working sheepdogs live a happy, contented life. My dogs live their life in the kitchen, they dont have free run of the house so is it cruel for them to be cooped up in the kitchen the majority of the day until they are taken for their walk or taken training? It's not that different to being confined to a kennel really. I've had collies for over 30 years and each one had been different with a different outlook on life but all have been kept the same way (confined to the kitchen) and have not suffered because of it.

I have to say, Sleeping_Lion has a very similar outlook to keeping dogs as I do. I perhaps have a harsher view of dog ownership than the majority of members on here and I too believe that dogs should earn their keep. I spend a lot of money on my dogs which I have to go to work for so i'll be damned if they are resting on their laurels reaping the benefits! They need to do something in return whether that be catching a rabbit for their tea, running round an agility course, doing obedience or competing in gundog competitions.


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## happysaz133

Collies do very well in kennels, most collies around here are kennelled as they are working dogs and not pets. I would recommend a large space for them though, if they are going to be kennelled, they need space to do things when you are not there.


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## Bowwowpets

I have two BC's (both House Dogs)...but in the rural areas in Northumberland, most working dogs I've seen live in the Farmhouse, as loved and trusted companions.

Though, I know one farmer, whose Collies sleep in the Barn, cos they're working Dogs..and the guys retriever lives in the house!...how unfair is that?

Far as I can see...there should be NO difference between how a working dog is kept, and a Pet dog


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## smokeybear

As some previous posters have said THOUSANDS of dogs live in outdoor kennels of ALL breeds including BORDER COLLIES.

They are not loved, cared for, trained or exercised any less than those which live indoors and often a lot more.

For dogs which are bred to work outside a great deal of the day such as sheepdogs, gundogs, police dogs, sled dogs etc it is often better for them as their coat may grow thicker protecting them from wind, snow, rain, hail whilst working.

Just because a dog is housed indoors does not make the dog better cared for or loved than one that is housed outdoors.

Just because a dog is housed outdoors does not make it less loved or cared for than one that is housed indoors.

Many dogs have a mixture, ie staying in kennels overnight or to dry off and then coming in doors later when they are dry.

There are MANY MANY ways of keeping dogs successfully, not just ONE way, it may not be YOUR way, but that is irrelevant.


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## spaniel04

My dogs, even though they are hard working gun dogs, live in the house. I feel their company is very therapeutic, especially on cold winters' evenings when I am by myself. 
At least one of them would probably benefit from living in a kennel. For a springer spaniel her coat is quite short and sleek and doesn't give her a lot of insulation on a cold shooting day. She has to wear a little coat between drives just to keep her cosy and stop her shivering.  I have seen her litter sister who lives in kennels and her coat is completely different. 
If I ever were to get kennels they would have to be well insulated, with proper drainage, a sleeping box the dogs could either sleep inside of or on top of if they wished, a fair sized run and last but not least Ford Knox style security. I would have everything, alarm system, video cameras the whole lot. :
The pictures in the link the OP posted are just dog houses, not what I would call a proper kennel. And I have to agree with a previous poster, under no circumstances would I allow my dogs to roam around in a 3 acre field unsupervised. :frown2:


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