# Lab Puppy with soft/runny poop



## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi, 

It's my first time on the forum and also first time as a puppy owner, although both my husband and I grew up with dogs around us.

We've a 12 week lab puppy, Bonnie, and she's been with us for 2 weeks.
She was very thin and frail when we collected her (3kg) but very loving, and despite all the warning signs off a poor breeder went we visited her (her mum and siblings weren't there!!!) we couldn't walk away and leave her there.

She was travel sick on the way home and had bad diarorrah overnight. 
We took her straight to the vet who checked her over and wormed her. Nothing to much too worry about other than a little bit of dry skin. 
To bring her back if poos didn't improve in 48hrs which they did. 
I also called her previous vets and they said that there were no problems in within the litter in their first checks/jabs.

She was on Hills Science Plan, which she likes, but for the first week she had LOTS of soft poo ..... not shaped and about 12 per day!!!

She's such a slow and careful eater, her low weight could be malnutrition if she was pushed out of the food by her brothers. We also read that Hill's is not highly regarded and maize doesn't suit some dogs so we have gradually moved her over to JWB on 75/50/25% basis over the last week and also mixing in some boiled rice to help firm poo up. Now she's now on 100% JWB since yesterday.

At first her poop became almost firm, but now it's gone all runny again ....

She's a lively, alert but not overly energetic puppy. She's inquisitive, mischievous and loving and learning her parameters well. She's almost toilet trained to go outside. She'll have a 10-15 min play before stopping and feeding and resting again. She's now approx 3.7kg and is due at the vets tomorrow for her 2nd jabs after a 3 1/2 weeks in between as the vet advised not to give at normal 2 weeks space.

Anyway a few questions:

1. Should I be worried about her and is having her jabs wise with the runs?

2. Now that she is on JWB can you change the flavours? Does the same brand but different flavour also have to be changed gradually or is it best for her to remain on the fish one we bought (it smells !! and I though she may prefer the turkey as the Hills was chicken based?). 

3. She had her first jabs at Medivet, but we don't have one locally so we are using PetDoctors, they've said I will need to pay for a full puppy vaccination course tomorrow at £50 (which includes a free microchip). Is this normal or should I just pay for the 2nd course?


4. Can anybody offer any advise and help on night-time routines please???
I've been getting up every 2-3 hrs every night to let her out, sometimes with success, sometimes she's already been on the paper. She'll do about 3-4 poos overnight even though we feed her at 5.30pm, and leave any leftovers down to 8pm (as she needs to put some weight on and sometimes snacks about 7.30). Now 2 weeks into this I'm shattered .... I was trying to avoid mixed messages over paper/outside training but she goes out when I'm around and on the paper if I can't let her out (she doesn't ask I've been observant). My husband thinks we should leave her overnight (10pm-6.30pm) with paper down, but this seems cruel to me when she's being told to go outside during the day? 

Thank you for your help.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

my lab puppy had an icky tummy with every food, even with chappie he wasn`t entirely solid but it seemed an improvement. we moved him onto skinners hypoallergenic duck and rice recently and he seems to be thriving on it 

do you have the certificate to show she`s had her first jab? if so i`d maybe find a small local vet and take her there, this other place sounds like one of them big commercial rip offs much like medivet. local practices tend to be much better and don`t charge an arm and leg. i wouldn`t touch medivet with a barge pole even if they offered me a lifetime of free treatment, it`s definitely a place to avoid. 

as for the travel sickness you could put sun screens on the back windows, worked wonders for us. 

sorry i can`t be of more help!

etc if you don`t have the certificate then they probably would want to do the whole course again to be sure it works. although if the previous vet used a different type of vaccine then they might have to start it again anyway


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi 

Thanks for your help, I do have her inocculation record with her 1st jabs on it.
May give another vet a call today and see what they quote too. 
Luckily we are miles away from Medivet so no intentions of using them.

Thanks for the advice on the food, looks like there may be some trial and error to go through here! I guess that her jabs are ok to have then.


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## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

Hiya this may not work but we have our oes on jwb as he has a sensitive tummy and he has every flavour but the duck one gives him the runs, we didnt relate it to the food at first so have tried a few more times and without fail the duck on makes him really soft to the point of runny so maybe that flavour doesnt agree??

worth a try!


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## Sam1309 (May 18, 2010)

i have a BC pup who was never soild on hills or JWB. changed him onto fish4puppies and he firmed up was also a lot cheaper as well, he is now on raw and thriving, althought a tad under weight atm due to his grow spurt.. 

can u easily feel her ribs????? or see them?


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

ssjg said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for your help, I do have her inocculation record with her 1st jabs on it.
> May give another vet a call today and see what they quote too.
> ...


yup i think when they have a sensitive tum it`s just a case of trying until you find one they agree with and sticking to it. i can`t fault skinners in the slightest, he`s been great on it, granted he did lose a bit of weight as we were trying to work out the right amount for him but he`s putting that back on now (wasn`t really much anyway)


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## Val001 (Aug 25, 2010)

Don't EVER go back to Medivet they have a terrible reputation. Did you not see the Panorama programme about them?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I wouldnt change the meat protein to any other at the moment as some dogs can have problems with different meats and as shes already doing loose motions and a lot of them it could well make the problems worse. When the vet said he was going to charge you for the full vaccination cost if ive understood correctly is he also planning to give her the whole vaccination programme again to? Over vaccination can cause problems in itself. I would also make sure that you keep up a proper puppy worming programme. Its likely that the breeder may not have done one. The whole life cycle of the worm needs to be eradicated as any immature worms or eggs left will just grow into adults and start the whole process over again. Worms are often the cause of diarrhoea and an unhealthy harsh coat and skin. An excellent product to keep in with puppys is protexin pro kolin. Its a paste containing all natural products to help soothe the gut lining solidfy the stools and put back the good gut bacteria that the digestive tract needs. You can get it from your vet although usually more expensive or on line Vet medic is one that does it 0800 387348 Vet-Medic - the same medicines as your vet at consistently low prices. a course of this may help put her tummy back on the right track. If her stomach doesnt tend to improve you could put her on a resting diet for a few days of chicken grilled or boiled no skin and rice or white fish and rice either of these two with ths prokolin usually do the trick unless there are any underlying problems. In addition to worms puppies can suffer from other parisite infections such as giardia and coccidia. these are not so much worms as protozoa organisms. If you do her for the next few times with panacur paste that covers giardia as well. If her stomach does not settle in a few weeks in spite of worming etc. I would ask your vet to take a 3 day fecal sample from this they can check for any bacterial and parasitic infections. Adding to your initial problems might have been stress puppys suffer from tummy upsets often when going to there new home so this initially might have added to it. As for her night time toilet training I have never used paper or training pads either day or night as I believe it confuses the dog. I have always slept doenstairs and taken them out in the night when they woke or stirred. If you dont want to do that then I would just carry on as you have been doing getting up and putting her out maybe just up it once or twice more. Hope this may be of some help.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Just one thing I forgot as much as a temptation it is to keep changing the food if it doesnt seem to be working after a few days or a week I would stick to it for at least 3 to 4 weeks minimum. keep changing in itself can cause problems.


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Sam1309 said:


> i have a BC pup who was never soild on hills or JWB.
> 
> can u easily feel her ribs????? or see them?


Hi - yes you can see and feel her ribs, although each day there's a little more weight to her, so now her ribs are less visible than when we got her.


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Just one thing I forgot as much as a temptation it is to keep changing the food if it doesnt seem to be working after a few days or a week I would stick to it for at least 3 to 4 weeks minimum. keep changing in itself can cause problems.


Thanks for your help on the food and I'll ask the vet about the paste in the morning or order some online - but could do with it quickly. As Bonnie loves rice I think a few days on this and chicken would help.

She's due to be wormed again today, but didn't want to give her tablet (Dorantal plus) before jabs as last time it made her vomit. Thought I'd wait until a day or two after her jabs. This time Plerion 5 tablets were recommended to my husband at Pets at Home???

The vet's just giving her 2nd jabs (but charging for the full course!). I ran out of time this afternoon and didn't manage to call another.

So far tonight she's been a couple of times in the evening, then at 9.30 before bed. I set the alarm and went down at 11.30 and she'd already been and walked through her mess all round her area and into her bed, so lots of cleaning up! Now I'm awake waiting to go down at 2am or if I hear her ...then hopefully get some sleep before a 4.30 & 6.30 alarm!!!! Got to do something to settle her tum as thisis worse than when the kids were babies!!!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Vet medic also do wormer they do the drontal and panacur worming products in different forms they probably are all cheaper than your vets. Have a look on line to compare. Post is free but if you pay the extra couple of quid for first class you can have it next day. If its a lot cheaper you could just get one prokolin from the vet and order some more. Havent heard of the wormer plerion pets at home said. Ive found usually a few days on chicken or fish and rice and the prokolin sorts them out. Hope things get better soon.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

Tbh £50 is about an average price for 1 vaccination and a microchip, are you sure they're charging for the full course? A full vaccination course would normally be between £40 - £60 them microchip between £15 - £25 so it does sound as if they're only charging you for the 2nd jab and her chip and given that they're a commercial vet they're gonna be charging towards the expensive side of the price margin!


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi
We took Bonnie to the vets on Friday, she's had her 2nd jabs. 
We've had her on chicken/rice with Pro Kolin since Friday afternoon and her upset tummy settled in 24hrs and last night she went ALL night without a poo and her non-stop itching has really calmed down. This leads me to believe that something in the JWB may not be agreeing with her as the itiching is not half as much! With the rice and chicken we've at last managed to have a semi-formed soft poo but the frequency is much more managable, I got 4 1/2 hours sleep!!!! 

Tomorrow she will have been on rice/chicken for 72 hours, and we've bought some Arden Grange now. Can we gradually introduce this new food with the chicken and rice straight away?

With the Pro Kolin, how long shall we keep her on this? Should this be ongoing or just when she has an upset tummy? Just wondered as I'm going to order some online tomorrow, does it go off, as I see there are 2 tube sizes and the larger tubes are muhc cheaper?

We weren't impressed with the vets and have decided to move on her next visit, which may be sooner than , on Fri night we saw red rash/scabs inside her ears (the vet never even looked that afternoon or weighed her correctly!!).

Thank you all for your help.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

JWB sadly isn't what it used to be since it was taken over by the makers of pedigree. There's a lot more reports of it causing upset tums and gas.

I'm a big arden grange fun, but some dogs don't do well on chicken, Novak was terrible on their chicken puppy food, Bailey was fantastic. But if she does well on the AG, it's agreat food. And they seem like a great company, their customer service is fantastic.

If not, fish is very easy on the dogs tum, so maybe look at fish4dogs, another excellent food.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

one of mines got a sensitive tummy summers terrible when the temperature hits a certain high for a few days in a row she starts. Think you had the problem quite severely if I remember correctly and it had been going on for quite a time until now. If mine has a bad bout I usually keep her on the chicken and rice for at least 4 to 5 days and give the prokolin 3 times a day for at lease probably the first 3 days. Then I usually drop to twice a day for a couple of days. As I get her back on her normal food I usually give it once for the first day or so just to keep her tummy settled while im doing the change over. Its a matter really of seeing how they respond and adjusting accordingly but dont withdraw it completely too soon. The Prokolin always has a long date so you should be ok. It does keep Ive even used part used ones. If you by 3 at a time its cheaper still.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Hi,
Whatever changes you make - do them gradually and I would keep her on the chicken and rice for a good week if it were me. Then reduce it as you slowly add the AG. If at any point her tum starts going downhill again - go back to the stage you were at with success and if that fails, back to the chicken and rice. Hope that wont be necessary but thought worth a mention


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Should I expect poo's to be more solid on chicken/rice before moving her off it? Not sure what normal is for a 12 week puppy? 

It's semi-formed now, similar consistency to whipped cream?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

They should be well formed before you move on and then I would still leave it for at least a couple of days before you gradualy start to add the dry food in little by little.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes, you are looking for properly solid pooh  and as sled dog says - you need to be sure it's established and not a couple of days firm and back to sloppy, before you start making any changes.


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Morning, thanks, I will keep her on the rice/chicken until there's a big improvement. If there's no change by the end of the week will take a sample to the vets for tests to start eliminating possible causes, if she'snot in sooner for her ears. 

Thanks


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

That sounds like a good plan:thumbup:


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi

Took puppy back to a NEW vets yesterday (he was like a breath of fresh air!!) and he took every minute detail down.

She's still on rice/chicken and has had a few formed poo's since going to the vet's, but not all of them.

Look like we are dealing with two seperate things and I've loads of QUESTIONS please if any body can help, as so worried now both for her and the kids with two transmittable bugs......

Diarhorrea - Gardia?We are doing a 3 day stool sample and results should be back in next week, he warned to expect gardia .. or another similar.

Have been hoovering and mopping the house daily with bleach since we got her, but as she's mainly house-trained she's been going to the loo outside for the last 3 weeks.

I've a 50ft lawn and she goes around the edges. I've two children and am aware that it the test comes back positive that we will need to clean the lawn ....

Q1. Can anybody advise on how best to do this and are there any chemicals needed as I believe the wet conditions at the moment are ideal for the eggs to stay dormant??

Q2. The Vet has recommended putting her on Hills ID or Royal Canin Sensitivity .. we were planning on moving her to Arden Grange? Any thought on these foods?? We are still using Pro Kolin.

Itching - Mange
He also gave us some Advocate as saying the her itching could be mange as she's developed red spots and sore patches on her hind feet and front elbow ....

Q3. How long does the advocate take to work? When should her itching stop ... and will this need to be repeated?

Q4. Will washing the flooring with bleach and putting her bedding/toys/all our clothes through the washing machine be enough kill any mites?

Q5. We wanted to socialise her with other dogs within the family and take her out but until we get the full poo analysis result and treatments done are obviously keeping her in isolation. Will the Advocate stop the (possible) Mange from spreading to other dogs or do we also need to keep her in isolation for this the mange and for how long??

Sorry, the kids are so excited now she's had her 2nd jabs at taking her out and if I can explain how long we need to keep her in and keep them safe from the bugs in the meantime I will feel a lot better.

At least now I'm getting some sleep as she only goes out once between 9.30 and 6pm.

Thank you all for your time and help.


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Oops, that should have been sleeping from 9.30pm to 6.30am, and going out once around 2ish x


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Hi - sorry to hear its not all good news but the main bit is that you are happy with your vet and he is on the ball.

Cant answer all your questions but I would say AG is better than the foods he has recommended (they arent really up on foods). Give AG a ring, ask what they would recommend and they will send you samples. They will know which is the best of their foods for you to opt for.

Another thought is to swop chicken for fish and rice. Where the chicken fails for some, fish has great results.

Hope you will have more helpful comments soon


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi

A quick update on how Bonnie is now.

Good news, all her test samples are back.
No Gardia, worms etc. PHEW!!
The only possible culprit for the diarhorrea is C-Diff?
(when the vet said it though it didnt sound like Difficile - more list Diffingent ..is there a different doggy bug/), but he said with careful hygiene this shouldn't be a risk.

Over the last week we've been successful and had formed poo's on a chilcken and rice diet, so the vet hasn't said she needs antibiotics, as this culture is also in healthy dogs?

Last night we gave her a dentalstix and today she had a soft poo again, the vet seems to point to a dietary intolerance possibly ......

So a few more days on chicken and rice before introducing anything else again.

Her skin has also completely cleared up, scabs had dried and brushed out.
The vet will treat her again with Advocate in 3 weeks time, in case it was Mange, but perhaps the itching was dietary too.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2010)

That's good.
What food are you thinking of trying?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Well done for all you've done for her 

How is she doing weight wise now, and have you got any photos?


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi 

Thank you for your encouraging and kind comments. 

Rona-->
I'd still like to move her onto Arden Grange (chicken/rice) and the vet has agreed to this on a very gradual move over, and if there are any backwards steps to stop immediately and then to consider a move to a sensitive food (Royal Canin?).

First though he'd like us to wait till she's firm again and then introduce another dentastix to see if this causes the runs again.

GoldenShadow--> Her weight is really coming on now, almost 7kg, which is a 1kg increase this week and she's doubled since we homed her 4 weeks ago. I know that she's small for her age though with these health issues.

She's lovely, very alert, playful and loving, and so willing to learn too, but she doesn't like the rain!!!! 

I do have some pictures, they are mainly on my phone so will upload some soon.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2010)

I can't understand why your vet would want you to try dentastix they have so many ingredients that to a dog with a sensitive tum they would be one of the last things that I would try 
They have hardly any food value either  
DENTASTIX® | Oral Care For Healthy Teeth | Reduce Tartar Buildup | PEDIGREE®

Rice Flour, Wheat Starch, Glycerin, Gelatin, Gum Arabic, Calcium Carbonate, Natural Poultry Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Salt (Iodized), Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate [source of Vitamin C], Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, D-calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin [Vitamin B2], Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Dl-alpha Tocopherol Acetate [source of Vitamin E], Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1]), Potassium Sorbate (a Preservative), Smoke Flavor, Zinc Sulphate, Green Tea Extract, Turmeric, Iron Oxide, Copper Sulfate.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree with Rona, chances are that dentastix caused the problem and will undoubtedly do the same again as well as make her tum more sensitive - not an exercise worth risking in my opinion.
When mine went thro her tummy upset, I made that mistake

Also, AG do a couple of really good foods for sensitive tums and I think may be speak to them about which would be most suitable rather than revert to RC (AG is a much better food). Remember to make the change over really slow. I sadly counted kibble:scared: after I learned the hard way

You are doing v well and she has come a long way. Keep up the good work:thumbup:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I agree with rona and mum2heidi I tried them too with mine and it made them loose so never gave them again. I think it could well be them. I would give them a miss and wouldnt try anything similar even until you have got her on a diet that agrees and shes been fine for a considerable time.


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

rona said:


> I can't understand why your vet would want you to try dentastix they have so many ingredients that to a dog with a sensitive tum they would be one of the last things that I would try
> They have hardly any food value either
> 
> Hi, sorry to confuse you, I accidentally deleted my post and forgot to add this bit in when I re-typed it!!
> ...


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I agree with Rona, chances are that dentastix caused the problem and will undoubtedly do the same again as well as make her tum more sensitive - not an exercise worth risking in my opinion.
> When mine went thro her tummy upset, I made that mistake
> 
> Also, AG do a couple of really good foods for sensitive tums and I think may be speak to them about which would be most suitable rather than revert to RC (AG is a much better food). Remember to make the change over really slow. I sadly counted kibble:scared: after I learned the hard way
> ...


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2010)

A lot of people use cheese, but as you don't know what is causing the problem, it would be better to either try a little cheese before you start introducing any other food or wait until you have tested the tum on the food you choose.
I personally would concentrate on getting the food right first before introducing any treat, maybe use some of the the new food as treats or little pieces of chicken


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Hi again 
It's a right old minefield isnt it - trying to get it right

Trouble is with treats, it invariably means introducing something different for their tum to get to grips with. (been there too). I would speak to AG, they do a sensitive and another (premium I think) that's cereal free but their nutritionist would be able to advise which they feel would be best in your circumstances (and prob send samples). When you have your AG, introduce that v slowly and nothing else. Use the AG as treats. Thats what I did and for a week or so, got away with it. It's not what you use, but how you give it. If you "big" it up and make it exciting she may be fooled for long enough to get the AG established. 

Just need to get her tum a bit stronger and not bombard it with too many different things (see rona - I can do it in theory, just cant put it into practice)
All this is v easily said ssjg, but you have to be really strong and stick with it (I failed and learned the hard way:eek6


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Wag do a lamb and rice sensitive treat that ive used for training my sibe mal cross has got a sensitive tummy at times and she was fine with those. I would still wait if you can until shes on a diet thats agreed with her for awhile though. The less things you can introduce until then the better it would be I would think.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Wag do a lamb and rice sensitive treat that ive used for training my sibe mal cross has got a sensitive tummy at times and she was fine with those. I would still wait if you can until shes on a diet thats agreed with her for awhile though. The less things you can introduce until then the better it would be I would think.


Have you looked at what's in them?
Not sure how good they would be if a dog has a wheat intolerance

Wagg Sensitive Treats â Wagg Foods UK
Composition

Wheat, Poultry Meal, Fat, Lamb Meal (min 4%), Rice flour(min 4%), Minerals, Whey Powder, Fructooligosaccharides.

Just for those like me that wondered what the last ingredient was 
Fructo-Oligo-Saccharides (FOS), Supplement Monograph - Flora Health Supplement Encyclopedia


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi All

Spoke to AG on Friday, and after a lovely conversation took their advice to move Bonnie onto a white fish/potato diet on Saturday.

She's been brilliant, we've had text book poo's, lots of energy, red eyes gone and shiny coat returned!!! :thumbup:

They were so helpful, even worked out her metabolic rate using her current weight and exercise routine to give me exact quantity/mix of fish and potato to feed her. For treats they advised to use some of the mix and roll it into small balls and bake till hard ..... Bonnie loves them ... I'm on the 2nd batch already, although rolling them is too time consuming so I'm using a piping bag!

I'm going to very gradually move her onto the AG sensitive food over the next week.

They've advised to give her 6-8 weeks on this but in a few weeks give her a little chicken (then rice) to see if she is intolerant to either of these.

There is a some chicken fat listed in the AG sensitive food, however I'm hoping this is such a small amount and only and 'if allergic' that at the moment this hopefully won't disagree with her.

Feeling soo much happier now, hope it stays this way


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

That's brilliant I hope things stay good for you 

I put my boy on the AG Ocean White Fish and Potato when he was having problems and it sorted him right out. And he loved it!

Does pong though


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## ssjg (Nov 4, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> That's brilliant I hope things stay good for you
> 
> I put my boy on the AG Ocean White Fish and Potato when he was having problems and it sorted him right out. And he loved it!
> 
> Does pong though


Tell me about it ..... sat next to a bag of it now!!!! The things we do ...

I've uploaded some pics now as well into my album.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Thats brilliant news:thumbup: I thought you would find AG really helpful - I did 

Unfortunately we never even got to try the samples they sent - dry wasnt for her so we are on wet food


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Really glad you got it sorted out now. Its such a relief when you see some progress.


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