# Help Please! Peeing every time we go out!



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

I need help urgently me and my partner are at the end of our tethers! I'm also currently 5 months pregnant baby will be here in January so it needs to change. We have a 5 year old pitbull/Staffie type cross. He's behaviour is out of control. Every time we go out he pisses on the floor even if we take him out wether we are out for 10 minutes to an hour he does it. Even if he has been out for a huge walk. We put him in the cage as punishment and he just pees out of the side of it. We have tried everything even skullcap herbal anxiety relief which didn't do anything he doesn't seem anxious it's like he does it out of spite. He's behaviour has just got worse and worse no matter what we try! Today it's escalated even more my partner for up took him out went to work I got up a short time later come into the living room to find he has pissed everywhere again even over my boots and I was there and he knows it. I don't know what to do I can't deal take the stress anymore and I can't deal with this anymore we don't know what to try now... An we fear we can't rehome him because of he's breed.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Has he been castrated?

Also, has he been tested at your vet to check whether he has a UTI?


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

Yes he has been castrated. No we are looking at that route next to take him to vet to check. However if I am there all day in living room he doesn't pee everywhere and never asks to go out to toilet only when I get his lead and take him out so wouldn't he do it through the day not just when we go out?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Firstly dogs don't do things out of spite. Either he has a medical problem such as a urinary infection -try to get a sample and take it to your vets and have him checked over. If its not that I think its likely he is peeing from anxiety. Crates should never be used as punishment, they are supposed to be a safe place where your dog feels secure, like a den for him to go to rather than a cell for punishment. It sounds like he may be associating the crate with being left and being in trouble. I think it would be worthwhile getting a behaviourist in to assess him and see what can be done to help him.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

We've tried using the crate as a safe place he just doesn't like it. We tried not to use it but it got worse. I don't know how to punish him if we don't use the crate he knows he's done wrong but still does it and thinks evening is fine after and it's not. We are going to get him tested at vets. He's my partners dog I've had dogs all my life and I have my own dog but I'm at a loss at what to do never had any issues with any of the dogs I've had. But I don't know how he was brought up and trained. We have tried not using the crate even when we go out and don't put him in it makes no difference.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

And also if it's separation anxiety why did he do it when I was there?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Jb2016lm said:


> And also if it's separation anxiety why did he do it when I was there?


I didn't say it was necessarily separation anxiety just that if he is free from infection or any other medical condition such as enlarged prostate or diabetes then it could be down to anxiety especially if you are using the crate as punishment. Does he drink a lot? is his urine strong and smelly or dilute? Some dogs suffer from separation anxiety worse when their owners are in the house but they can't see them/be with them. What do you do when you come into the room and find he has peed?


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

_No he doesn't drink a great deal. He's pee is very strong though! Very strong colour too it stinks the whole room out when he does it. I come in this morning and he new he had done wrong I shouted at him and put him in the cage and cleaned up. We've only started using cage again last few days I folded it down and didn't use it and put him in he's bed when he down it before and made him stay there but after a few minutes he thinks everything is fine. The thing is he knows he's done wrong! _


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

That doesn't sound right about his urine so a trip to the vet with a sample is a must. I really think you need to stop shouting at him and using the cage to punish him as he may now be peeing out of fear because he anticipates your arrival means a telling off, please believe me when I say he is not doing it on purpose or to be naughty. Wait and see what the vet says and if its not medical then please consider a behaviourist but not one who is into dominance and punishment as that will very likely make him worse. In the mean time I would ditch the crate and go back to basics - take him outside regularly - after meals, when waking up or after play and when you first come in doors. Praise him and reward him for going in the right place. Now the hard bit - completely ignore when he does it indoors, just clean it up and don't get mad/huffy. Its really important that he doesn't anticipate you coming in with getting a telling off and being shut away in the crate.


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

If he only pees when you go out or when you are not in the room, (if I have understood correctly) will not ask to go out either, then the problem could be that its because he is shouted at and punished for it, punishment and shouting can actually have the opposite effect.

Its not uncommon for dogs that have been punished and reprimanded for urinating indoors and having accidents to not want to pee in front of their owners and wait to sneak off and do it when they are out of sight. As you don't know his earlier toilet training history or how he was trained early on generally, that could be the issue.
What also can happen is that although owners come home to a mess, and tell the dog off or punish them for the mess, they often don't associate the telling off or punishment well after the event, all they often learn is that when the owner comes home or down in the mornings they get a negative response and reprimanded.

I would say too that if his pee is dark, and really stinks it doesn't sound right so getting him checked out wouldn't be a bad idea, and if you can get a fresh sample just before you go to test even better.

Personally I would stop the shouting and punishment all together. I would also go back to puppy training taking him out in the garden regularly, and if he does start to go start to establish a toileting command, when he starts use a word of choice every time, eventually they associate the word with toilet, so that when they do you can use it as a toilet cue command often getting them to pee on command or at least pretty quickly later. When his finished, lots of praise and give him a couple of treats, to re-enforce the behaviour you want and that he has got it right and more likely to repeat it outside. The first one or two pees may be the hardest but once you have got him to do it outside and re-enforced it a couple of times it tends to get easier.

If he does have an accident inbetween its vital you don't tell him off or punish him. You also need to clean up with a special pet stain odour remover that will neutralise the smell as any smells left can encourage repeats in the same areas.

I know its hard but they will also pick up on any annoyed body language or annoyance in the tone of your voice, so if you can try to be relaxed and matter of fact about it. Its worth trying for a few days or a week to see if you can get him sorted. Obviously the crate and shouting isn't working so I would try a totally new approach, getting him out and praising and treating the behaviour you do want instead.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

As everyone else has suggested already - vet visit first and foremost.

However, I think a lot of his behaviour could be linked to your punishing of him. All you're doing is creating a dog that is worried by your presence and in turn making the likelihood of him peering more certain. I'd stop using his crate as punishment altogether and focus more on bonding exercises. If and when he does pee _silently _remove him to the garden and clean up behind him using a product designed to remove the smell of urine. There really is no need to be overly harsh with him as frustrating as this behaviour may be. I'd go back to basics with house training too and treating him like an 8 week old pup taking him out into the garden every couple of hours and praising lavishly when he pees in the correct area.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

He doesn't need re training to pee. He knows where to go and he goes whenever I take him outside for a pee he goes no problem he doesn't give a crap about peeing in front of anyone! He doesn't do it if your here with him or have an accident going in the wrong place or forgetting like a puppy does other wise I would re toilet train mm partner said he trained him normally. I've got up this morning my partner did same routine as yesterday and there is no pee. Yesterday was the first time he done this when one of us was here. It seems to happen every time we go out and leave him he will pee even if we take him out to pee before we go out. it's like he forcefully makes himself per sometimes as it isn't a lot but it's like he has tried. We have tried ignoring it I didn't use the crate for 4 months. I don't think he's associating anything with punishment as sometimes we can come back and he is completely normal doesn't act any different to if he's done something wrong. He's not left alone either he has my dog which is here constantly with him. An if we go out he's not left for long periods of time we take him out when we're here so he's not busting or holding it in. I will however take him to the vets to get checked out as he's pee is very very strong it stinks the whole place out but I put this down to being a male dog my partner also said he was castrated late....


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Please excuse me if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here but do you actually like the dog? it doesn't sound like you have much affection for him from your posts.


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Jb2016lm said:


> And also if it's separation anxiety why did he do it when I was there?


Because he either didn't know you were there (you say you got up after your partner had left for work) or he was anxious because you were not actually with him
I have a young puppy who will cry, howl, bark, urinate if I am out of sight when home but is happy to be left when I go out so separation anxiety can take many forms.

I would strongly advise getting him checked for a UTI and if that is clear getting a behaviourist in to help you solve this problem.
In the mean time don't leave anything lying around where he can wee on them - such as shoes, bags etc
Don't tell him off he's not doing anything out of spite - clean up any mess quietly and calmly with a solution of biological washing powder to remove any scent.

Best of luck


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Jb2016lm said:


> He doesn't need re training to pee. He knows where to go and he goes whenever I take him outside for a pee he goes no problem he doesn't give a crap about peeing in front of anyone! He doesn't do it if your here with him or have an accident going in the wrong place or forgetting like a puppy does other wise I would re toilet train mm partner said he trained him normally. I've got up this morning my partner did same routine as yesterday and there is no pee. Yesterday was the first time he done this when one of us was here. It seems to happen every time we go out and leave him he will pee even if we take him out to pee before we go out. it's like he forcefully makes himself per sometimes as it isn't a lot but it's like he has tried. We have tried ignoring it I didn't use the crate for 4 months. I don't think he's associating anything with punishment as sometimes we can come back and he is completely normal doesn't act any different to if he's done something wrong. He's not left alone either he has my dog which is here constantly with him. An if we go out he's not left for long periods of time we take him out when we're here so he's not busting or holding it in. I will however take him to the vets to get checked out as he's pee is very very strong it stinks the whole place out but I put this down to being a male dog my partner also said he was castrated late....


To be fair, unless it's a medical issue, if he's peeing in the house then he's not effectively house trained.

If it's only happening when you're out as you say it sounds more SA based and that can be tricky to manage/train through so you'd be best off consulting a good, reputable, behaviourist.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

Yes I do like him, But me and my partner are at the end of our tethers with him. I am pregnant and I am exhausted and stressed from it. It has been going on most of this year and we have tried everything with him it seems like we get somewhere with him and then there's a new thing he's doing or it gets worse and yes it does get start to get you down and we are beginning to feel like we are getting no where and can't do this anymore. I am constantly cleaning up after him. Today I have cleaned the whole place I've have got rid of every single sign of pee with pet odour remover and the cage is folded away again. We are gonna get him checked at the vet. How much roughly is a behaviourist? X


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

He either has a UTI or something going else on or it is S/A as I've been here all day today and he hasnt peed anywhere


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Jb2016lm said:


> Yes I do like him, But me and my partner are at the end of our tethers with him. I am pregnant and I am exhausted and stressed from it. It has been going on most of this year and we have tried everything with him it seems like we get somewhere with him and then there's a new thing he's doing or it gets worse and yes it does get start to get you down and we are beginning to feel like we are getting no where and can't do this anymore. I am constantly cleaning up after him. Today I have cleaned the whole place I've have got rid of every single sign of pee with pet odour remover and the cage is folded away again. We are gonna get him checked at the vet. How much roughly is a behaviourist? X


Behaviourist prices range depending on area I think. The highest I've paid is £70 which entailed a roughly 2 hour consultation and then free follow up advice. Good to hear you'll be taking him to the vets first and foremost. You can also discuss a referral to a behaviourist with your vet.


----------



## Emma timmins (Sep 2, 2015)

Jb2016lm said:


> Yes I do like him, But me and my partner are at the end of our tethers with him. I am pregnant and I am exhausted and stressed from it. It has been going on most of this year and we have tried everything with him it seems like we get somewhere with him and then there's a new thing he's doing or it gets worse and yes it does get start to get you down and we are beginning to feel like we are getting no where and can't do this anymore. I am constantly cleaning up after him. Today I have cleaned the whole place I've have got rid of every single sign of pee with pet odour remover and the cage is folded away again. We are gonna get him checked at the vet. How much roughly is a behaviourist? X


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Emma timmins said:


> I think people need to stop judging and give advice not lectures x


So give some then x


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Emma timmins said:


> I think people need to stop judging and give advice not lectures x


PLENTY of very good advice has been given.. the problem I see, is the advice is not being accepted because it's not what the OP wants to hear..

Suggesting a dog might need to go to the vets is excellent advice, suggesting the OP stops punishing an innocent dog for going to the toilet in the house is excellent advice. Stop using a crate as punishment is excellent advice. Informing the OP that dogs do not have the capability to do things out of spite is excellent advice.

Out of curiosity, what "advice" do YOU suggest that differs to what has already been given?


----------



## Linda2147 (Sep 26, 2013)

If his vet check comes out ok and there is no infection you could put a belly band on him. He can't pee with a belly band on.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

FYI I have taken advice on board and tried it. I have taken him to the vets an he is absolutely fine there's no sign on an infection and his PH levels are fine...

I have also removed the cage completely which I said earlier, I have also stopped punishing him and telling him off when he pees he gets no reaction from us. So to say I am not following advice is ridiculous. 

He is now peeing every single night when we go to bed and we are in the next room. I've been putting the TV on when I go out and he seems to have stopped doing it when we go out but he does it now every night after we go to bed. I'm taking him to the toilet as late as I can before I go to bed and I'm also getting up at all hours to check he hadn't done it at 4:30 this morning but he had when we got up and it's not that he can't hold it because he manages fine when I'm here and doesn't do it when I go out at the moment.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

I honestly thought this site was here so people can get advice/help. Not be judged and reprimanded and made to feel like you don't love your own dog because your at your wits end with it and stressed. 

If I didn't care I wouldn't put up with it day in day out and try to help him and ask for advice. I would have just dumped him off at a rescue centre like a lot of people do!


----------



## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Please excuse me if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here but do you actually like the dog? it doesn't sound like you have much affection for him from your posts.


Took the words out of my mouth.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

lisa0307 said:


> Took the words out of my mouth.


I'm sorry I didn't realise you could tell so much about someone and how they feel about something from a post where they are explaining about behaviour. 
If I didn't care I wouldn't have taken him to the vet and I wouldn't try day in day out to sort his behaviour out without having to get rid of him.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

To be the ones that have actually given me non judgemental advice thank you.


----------



## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Just out of curiosity, what are you feeding him.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

He is on Chappie biscuits and Chappie meat but he only has a little meat with he's biscuits so he doesn't put on too much weight.


----------



## Linda2147 (Sep 26, 2013)

put a belly band on him. check out this website to learn about bellybands

http://www.bellybands.net/


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

Thanks that is definitely an option to try. He is quite destructive though I think he will pull it off himself and rip it up.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

When will the blood work be back? I would suspect diabetes. Possibly kidney disease but my bet would be on diabetes. And of course all the shouting and punishment only makes things worse. Stress is very bad for dogs, and makes diabetes worse. 

Wait until you get the lab results of course (hopefully the urine was sent out to the lab for a culture also) but you definitely want to improve the diet also.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Jb2016lm said:


> I honestly thought this site was here so people can get advice/help. Not be judged and reprimanded and made to feel like you don't love your own dog because your at your wits end with it and stressed.
> 
> If I didn't care I wouldn't put up with it day in day out and try to help him and ask for advice. I would have just dumped him off at a rescue centre like a lot of people do!


Im glad to hear there is nothing medically wrong with your dog. Your next step would be consulting a behaviourist then. Did you discuss with your vet about a possible referral?


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Dogloverlou said:


> Im glad to hear there is nothing medically wrong with your dog. Your next step would be consulting a behaviourist then. Did you discuss with your vet about a possible referral?


I am not convinced that there is nothing medically wrong with this dog. Was blood work done? Was the urine sent out for a culture? If the answer is no, why not? If this were my pet I would expect the vet to carry out a thorough diagnostic work up. Months ago.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Jb2016lm said:


> I'm sorry I didn't realise you could tell so much about someone and how they feel about something from a post where they are explaining about behaviour.
> If I didn't care I wouldn't have taken him to the vet and I wouldn't try day in day out to sort his behaviour out without having to get rid of him.


I am sorry @Jb2016lm - when I asked you if you actually liked your dog I wasn't meaning that in a judgemental way. Its perfectly possible to care for your dog but resent it and not like how it is making you feel and that is what I meant I get from your posts. I understand it is a frustrating time for you and you are now doing your best but there is no doubt punishing him and shouting at him will have made the situation worse. Please do make sure the vet has completed a full assessment including bloods because I also suspect something is going on as I mentioned way back in the thread. Why does your vet think he is peeing strong dark urine?


----------



## Linda2147 (Sep 26, 2013)

even if there is something medically wrong with him the belly band would contain any urine that leaks out. You put a sanitary napkin in it to catch any dribbles. I don't think he could get it off as it fastened with a strong velcro


----------



## Linda2147 (Sep 26, 2013)

I didn't say "took the words right out of my mouth" I suggested the belly band, if you don't want my advice thats fine, we're done, I won't say anything more


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Linda2147 said:


> I didn't say "took the words right out of my mouth" I suggested the belly band, if you don't want my advice thats fine, we're done, I won't say anything more


The OP is quoting @lisa0307 who was quoting me. The OP was not quoting you.


----------



## Linda2147 (Sep 26, 2013)

sorry, I missread it.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I'd expect a bellyband to be potentially quite distressing for a dog who has to urinate frequently and is then stuck in its own mess. I know a lady on another forum who used them on her small dogs and something about them just makes me uncomfortable.....


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> I'd expect a bellyband to be potentially quite distressing for a dog who has to urinate frequently and is then stuck in its own mess. I know a lady on another forum who used them on her small dogs and something about them just makes me uncomfortable.....


I had no idea such a thing existed so googled it.. Really don't like the sound of them either. Especially when a dog could possibly already be distressed with toilet issues and even more so, if there's a chance there's an underlying medical condition


----------



## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

Nettles said:


> I had no idea such a thing existed so googled it.. Really don't like the sound of them either. Especially when a dog could possibly already be distressed with toilet issues and even more so, if there's a chance there's an underlying medical condition


I wouldn't suggest those - the reason dogs don't pee in them is because they are uncomfortable and it can cause them stress. Also, if they simply don't understand and do pee in it, it will just sit there until the owner notices it - causing rashes and infections.


----------



## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

You shout at him and put him in his crate when he pees. The problem may not be going pee outside, but knowing that he CANT pee inside. It's possible he's peeing out of stress and thinks you're angry because the pee is there, not that you're angry because he peed.


Nettles said:


> PLENTY of very good advice has been given.. the problem I see, is the advice is not being accepted because it's not what the OP wants to hear..
> 
> Suggesting a dog might need to go to the vets is excellent advice, suggesting the OP stops punishing an innocent dog for going to the toilet in the house is excellent advice. Stop using a crate as punishment is excellent advice. Informing the OP that dogs do not have the capability to do things out of spite is excellent advice.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what "advice" do YOU suggest that differs to what has already been given?


To be fair, the OP did say the crate is folded away and she spoke with the vets. But I do agree, several posts have been nothing but helpful advice


----------



## Raimonda (Aug 17, 2015)

It's just my opinion, but I would suggest to find a good dog behaviourist. Seems like it's separation anxiety.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

The vet did all the tests and he was fine, she gave him a full check aswell and said he's healthy and she would say it's behavioural. 

The crate is gone and we stopped punishing him when I first posted this post. We have made some progress I leave the TV on when we go out which and haven't come home to any pee. 

Last night was the first night we have woken up to no pee! Last night I washed every piece of flooring in boiling water and washing powder and got rid of the Matt that he has peed on in the past and I took him out too pee one last time as late as I could and have woken up to nothing. Hopefully he keeps it up.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

What do you mean change his diet?


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

The vet defffintely did the extra tests as it cost me an extra £80 on top of the fee for the appointment and checkup.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Jb2016lm said:


> The vet did all the tests and he was fine, she gave him a full check aswell and said he's healthy and she would say it's behavioural.
> 
> The crate is gone and we stopped punishing him when I first posted this post. We have made some progress I leave the TV on when we go out which and haven't come home to any pee.
> 
> Last night was the first night we have woken up to no pee! Last night I washed every piece of flooring in boiling water and washing powder and got rid of the Matt that he has peed on in the past and I took him out too pee one last time as late as I could and have woken up to nothing. Hopefully he keeps it up.


Thats good news and something to build upon - have you thought about leaving a radio on quietly in the background at night too?


----------



## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Jb2016lm said:


> What do you mean change his diet?


Chappie isn't the best...see food index.

Wet Food Index: http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/the-updated-wet-dog-food-index.305410/
Dry Food Index: http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/the-updated-dry-dog-food-index.255727/


----------



## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Jb2016lm said:


> He is on Chappie biscuits and Chappie meat but he only has a little meat with he's biscuits so he doesn't put on too much weight.


Could he be hungry?


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

I don't think he's hungry he has a good bowl full of biscuits which I put with a bit of meat. He doesn't always eat it all either he just takes what he wants throughout the day, in the evening if he has finished it I will refill it and then there's usually some left the next day. I can't give him anymore meat than I do as I was and he put on a horrendous amount of weight and he was exercising. My partner said he's only ever had him on biscuits he's whole life. I give him some meat as it's what my dog has so I try to give them the same also if he is good he does get rewarded with treats for good behaviour throughout the day and has chews and dental stix.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Thats good news and something to build upon - have you thought about leaving a radio on quietly in the background at night too?


We are going to get one to use when we go out instead of using the TV.

Im gonna try and get past it at night without using the TV or radio first as I'm worried about my electric bill as it is, but i will try that idea if it doesn't get better. I'm hoping the washing powder has helped too with getting rid of he's scent and he's been rewarded for not going in the house so I'm hoping it gets better.


----------



## Canarie (Sep 4, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Please excuse me if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here but do you actually like the dog? it doesn't sound like you have much affection for him from your posts.[/QUO
> You must NEVER use the crate as a punishment.
> In fact you should never be punishing the dog.
> Sometimes my dog really tests my patience,but,I know she is not doing it intentionally,especially when she is running half away across a field!!
> ...


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

We don't use the crate at all now it's folded and in a garage and when he has been doing it we have given him no reaction.
I checked with my partner and he's always had him on chappie, also my ones on chappie as it's what my mum recommended as its what she's got all hers on and and she has had dogs all her life and rescued some and says she's always used chappie. :-/
I've never really had any problems with it. I have tried different foods in the past but it seems to give them the runs so I've always stuck with chappie plus one of them is fussy as hell. An I can't really start changing food now we also have a cavalier and we have him on a really good set diet as they are known for weight issues which he has suffered with but with the right amount of food and exercise he seems to be doing good and he's not starving either so if it's not causing problems id rather just leave it as it is.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm hoping for another pee free night!


----------



## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

I remember Oliver used to go and tear up kleenex every time we would leave even to go into the basement to have a cigarette.With a little training we got him to stop.Also i would not suggest a belly band until you know for sure all medical issues have been crossed off the list.I know you said the urine test came back clean and no uti but was there a blood sugar test done and bloods drawn to check for kidney issues and such?I may have missed this.

We are a group that will try to help you but when you threaten to take a dog to the pound or re home it then people on here do get very judgmental because we love animals and we know that no matter what a animal doesn't deserve that.I realize you are very frustrated with the situation but making blind and empty threats will certainly not get you anywhere in these threads.So please try to keep it simple without things like that.


----------



## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Also if you found something that works i really hope it continues and things make a turn for the better.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Jb2016lm said:


> We've tried using the crate as a safe place he just doesn't like it. We tried not to use it but it got worse. I don't know how to punish him if we don't use the crate he knows he's done wrong but still does it and thinks evening is fine after and it's not. We are going to get him tested at vets. He's my partners dog I've had dogs all my life and I have my own dog but I'm at a loss at what to do never had any issues with any of the dogs I've had. But I don't know how he was brought up and trained. We have tried not using the crate even when we go out and don't put him in it makes no difference.





Jb2016lm said:


> And also if it's separation anxiety why did he do it when I was there?





Jb2016lm said:


> _No he doesn't drink a great deal. He's pee is very strong though! Very strong colour too it stinks the whole room out when he does it. I come in this morning and he new he had done wrong I shouted at him and put him in the cage and cleaned up. We've only started using cage again last few days I folded it down and didn't use it and put him in he's bed when he down it before and made him stay there but after a few minutes he thinks everything is fine. The thing is he knows he's done wrong! _





Jb2016lm said:


> He doesn't need re training to pee. He knows where to go and he goes whenever I take him outside for a pee he goes no problem he doesn't give a crap about peeing in front of anyone! He doesn't do it if your here with him or have an accident going in the wrong place or forgetting like a puppy does other wise I would re toilet train mm partner said he trained him normally. I've got up this morning my partner did same routine as yesterday and there is no pee. Yesterday was the first time he done this when one of us was here. It seems to happen every time we go out and leave him he will pee even if we take him out to pee before we go out. it's like he forcefully makes himself per sometimes as it isn't a lot but it's like he has tried. We have tried ignoring it I didn't use the crate for 4 months. I don't think he's associating anything with punishment as sometimes we can come back and he is completely normal doesn't act any different to if he's done something wrong. He's not left alone either he has my dog which is here constantly with him. An if we go out he's not left for long periods of time we take him out when we're here so he's not busting or holding it in. I will however take him to the vets to get checked out as he's pee is very very strong it stinks the whole place out but I put this down to being a male dog my partner also said he was castrated late....


Just come across this, and read the replies. I understand that you've stopped punishing him, which is great, and at the last time of posting, you were hoping to have a 2nd night of No Accidents.

I do sympathise and empathise with what you must be feeling. My lurcher seemed to take forever to toilet train, and with the best will and all the patience in the world, it can and does get frustrating, almost more so if there's no obvious pattern.

You seem to insist that he "knows" when he's done wrong. He doesn't. That's why he doesn't behave any differently whether he's "done wrong" or not. He doesn't rationalise like we do - he can't. What you are interpreting as "knowing he's done wrong", is actually him responding to your body language or moods. For example: I have recently been diagnosed with depression, and as a result, my mood swings can be swift and uncontrollable. Max, the tricolour cross in my siggie, picks up on my stress and anger caused by the depression, or my irritation and frustration caused by my skin problems (severe eczema), and offers calming signals - the same signals you would interpret as him "knowing he has done wrong" and/or quickly flees the room :Shy :Bag. Meanwhile, Milly, the lurcher, knows exactly when I'm about to start sobbing my heart out and instantly gets up and follows me to the bedroom, cuddling in close as I break my heart for nothing.

They're both responding to my body language and correctly identifying how I'm feeling, even though it's not them that I'm angry/frustrated/heartbroken/stressed by. And your dog is doing the same with you. He knows you're angry, but he doesn't know or understand why, and he doesn't know that you are angry with him.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

We went two nights with no peeing it was great. Then last night from 11pm I took him out to pee three times the last one being at 1:30am in the morning when I was struggling to sleep. I thought I'd get up and take him out just in case. And between that time and 4:00 in the morning when my partner got up he had peed in about 3 places. We haven't been telling him off for it and we have been giving him chews if we go out and I have been rewarding him for good behaviour even when I take him out to pee seem to be getting no where.  I went out for 15 minutes today and come back and he had peed up my sofa and pooped everywhere which is a new one. :-/ I even left the lights on and TV on and gave him a chew bone and made sure I wasn't long.

I just don't understand anymore I've tried everything it's heartbreaking and I have been in tears all tonight I don't know how much more I can take and we can't afford a behaviourist at the moment as we are having a baby and have recently had to buy stuff I just dunno what else to try now.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

I feel like I'm a prisoner in my own home as I can't even pop to the shop or round the corner or go and see my mum cause I know I am going to come home to pee everywhere so it's easier just not to leave as I then spend ages clearing it up for him to just do it again.  I even dread going to bed now at night cause I know first thing in the morning I am going to spend ages clearing up pee first thing.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Sorry to hear he's started up again. Can you not put aside some money for a behaviourist? Perhaps go without something yourselves? 

As said already, SA based behaviours are often quite complex to deal with and a behaviourist really is the next step. Not all behaviourists cost a huge amount either so it's worth asking around.


----------



## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

I would take him back to the vet and get a thorough medical done on your dog...if this behaviour has only just started then something is really unsettling your dog.
Could he have an underlying brain condition?
Have you thought about changing his diet?
Just a thought as our dog (although smaller) started peeing everywhere out of the blue and he had every test you can think of, all negative but it wasn't until we changed his food that it stopped...when he eats any food containing brown rice he can not control his bladder...don't ask me how, it just happens...have changed his diet enough times to be able to say for definite that brown rice does not agree with him...I'm not saying your dog has a problem with brown rice but you may be feeding him something that has an ingredient that is setting this off...and before you say he's been ok all this time on the food he is fed on, things change..like humans can develop allergies, so can dogs.
Look at the treats you're feeding as well.
We now feed Naturediet which has white rice and he hasn't had an episode since we changed.
You have nothing to lose and it may well do the trick.
Otherwise a behaviourist will be your only other option...maybe he's picking up stress from you.


----------



## Guest (Sep 10, 2015)

Jb2016lm said:


> I feel like I'm a prisoner in my own home as I can't even pop to the shop or round the corner or go and see my mum cause I know I am going to come home to pee everywhere so it's easier just not to leave as I then spend ages clearing it up for him to just do it again.  I even dread going to bed now at night cause I know first thing in the morning I am going to spend ages clearing up pee first thing.


Have you tried crating him when you leave? He can't eliminate all over your house if he's crated. I am sorry to see he hasn't made much progress but the previous two nights shows that there is some!


----------



## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Jb2016lm said:


> The vet did all the tests and he was fine, she gave him a full check aswell and said he's healthy and she would say it's behavioural.


This is what our vet kept saying...behavioural.
Not saying yours isn't but it's worth looking in to everything.
If it is behavioural then you are going to have your work cut out once your baby is born.
Can you get a relative to look after him for a while, just to see if a change in environment helps?


----------



## Guest (Sep 10, 2015)

I have to disagree, as a change in environment for an already anxious dog is likely to make them more nervous and stressed out. However I do agree that he will be a challenge when the baby comes. If you don't mind me asking, how far along are you? Just to get an estimate of how long you'll have until the baby does come. If you still have a couple months then there's hope yet!

I would definitely crate train. He can't pee and poo on your things in a crate, but it will also take a little bit to train him for a crate since you used to use it as punishment. He may very well view it as a bad thing, but don't worry! I made that mistake with Cosmo. When he ate off of peoples plates he would go into the crate and now we're having to retrain. He's coming back around, and it's only been a week. Just make sure the crate is always positive from here on out. Feed him all of his meals in it, only give him treats and chews and stuffed kongs in it, and if he tries to take any of those things out then take it away and place it back in the crate until he realizes he can only have those things while he's in the crate.

Don't let him out at night if he cries, it may take a while but he'll settle. For your situation I would go back to basics and take him out to pee every few hours - setting an alarm helps. And remember to only open the door when he's quiet and settled.

If he does eliminate in the crate then something is likely very wrong either medically or extreme behaviorally because this doesn't happen often and I would consider phoning some behaviorists to at least get opinions if nothing else.

Good luck, and I do hope he progresses!


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

We are already putting money aside, and going without stuff our selfs everyday. I don't know what else we can go without unless I stop eating completely and we don't pay the rent. We don't go out and we have hardly any food here as we cut back and we've bought hardly anything for the baby. We used the last bit of money we just saved on taking him to the vet having tests done. It's harder now as I'm off sick for from work due to a problem in my pregnancy and my work don't pay sick pay so the money we do get all goes on the rent so it's not like we have money to throw around. My partner took dog to work yesterday and finished late in the night he's just got up and he has urinated everywhere in the kitchen all around the living room literally huge amounts. 

That's my worry now as my partner will be working a lot when baby's here and I can't deal with clearing up pee everyday and trying to look after a new born first child aswell. I don't get stressed at the dog when he's done stuff. An we can't crate him as it makes him worse as soon as he's in there he pees out the side of the cage although I guess it wouldn't matter now where he does it as its all the time but i was told on here not to use it. We had extra tests done at the vet where she sent he's urine away she assured us it's absolutely fine and I do believe this as if one of us is here with the dog in the living room all day he doesn't do it.

We don't have anyone to have him on my partners side they have other animals. An my mums offered but she has 2 dogs herself and my partners dog can't be trusted around other dogs he can be vicious and has attacked before and my mum has said she doesn't trust him. He is not a small dog he is a big dog he's very tall and very strong.

I am 5 months, the only thing I can think of that is causing this behaviour is that I'm pregnant? But I haven't changed towards him but I read online that I may smell different my dog seems to have not even noticed though. That's when it got worse he used to do things before but not like this it would be the occasional he would rip up one of my pillows and I know my partners old place with he's housemates dog they destroyed the sofa and used to be destructive. But we move in together in January and they was fine until about April/March we didn't use the cage the whole time we was here only if he was bad so I took it away that's when he started and then it's just got worse. We did try putting him in the crate before at night but he barked and grows all night and our neighbours heard him and he also kept
Me awake. I even tried having him in the bedroom for a week he was fine then he started being a pain in the middle of the night and jumped on me and it's dangerous he also ripped up the bedding I put in there. I'm Going to try and borrow some money for a behaviourist as my partner is at the end of the line I think as he's just said to me that he has well an truly had enough and it's his dog so for him to say that. 

He behaviour really seems to be getting worse not better. I'm worried what if it gets worse to the point he might go for my baby or something I'm really beginning to lose trust in him now it's like he's not the same dog it's not even like he's unhappy he gets everything and my an my partner have thought and thought he's corner for so long. Everyone has said to me how u gonna cope with the dog and the baby...


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Jb2016lm said:


> he has urinated everywhere in the kitchen all around the living room literally huge amounts.


This is not behavior this is illness. Urinating huge amounts is caused by diseases such as kidney disease or diabetes to name two. Your vet should have done blood work. It still needs to be done. This dog is sick.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

I may have missed it but why do you think he might go for the baby? Has he showed aggression towards humans/babies before? I thought the problem was him peeing in the house when left alone!
If he's being aggressive with people then you most definitely need help from a behaviourist. Do you have pet insurance for him? Some insurances cover behaviourists so might be worth enquiring about it.

If you are just assuming he may become aggressive with people because he's peeing indoors and misbehaving then I'm at a loss for words...

If your vet has done all the relevant tests and is certain your dog is healthy then the only explanation I can see is poor training or anxiety. If a simple urine test is all that was done, then I would be insisting on more tests. If you can't afford more tests to ensure he is healthy, then it may sound harsh, but in my opinion you can't afford to care for him properly.

If he is healthy and the problem is behavioural, then in the short space of time since you first posted this thread (10 days ago!) I wouldn't expect to see much change in his toilet issues yet regardless of how much you've changed your behaviour towards him. I don't think he'll forget being punished for peeing very quickly and is more than likely still anxious about it... which sadly results in more mess for you to clean up. It takes time.

If you're not willing or don't have the time/money to invest in helping him, then I'm afraid in my opinion it's probably best you give this dog up to someone who is willing to put the time and effort in going right back to basics and toilet training him, building his trust and dealing with his anxiety properly.


----------



## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Jb2016lm said:


> I went out for 15 minutes today and come back and he had peed up my sofa and pooped everywhere which is a new one.


I agree with a previous post...this dog does not sound well...now he's pooing and peeing everywhere.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

The vet done loads of tests on him and said he is fine and healthy. Also if I'm in the same room as him and just stayed in that room with him constantly didn't leave didn't go to bed he doesn't pee so surely if he wasn't well he would do it when I'm there with him. 

We have the money to care for him just not right now to be paying for a behaviourist as we have to buy other things we've always looked after him well he's insured vaccinated regular check ups. I don't see why having a dog means we can't also have a life as well I don't think it's fully down to bad training as he hasn't been this bad until now and he's 5 years old so that's 4 years my partners had him and he hasn't been bad like this.

I've googled today and read loads of posts on baby centre forum and websites about other people who have experienced exactly the same thing who are pregnant. Apparently it could be because my scent has changed what he is doing is scenting the house as they may also see a space for him to become pack leader I don't know if this is true but the behaviour has definitely got worse since I have been pregnant. Apparently he has bitten someone once my partners old housemate but I don't know what this situation was an I've never had any sign of aggression for him apart from other dogs which was because he was bitten when he was a puppy. 

So u have to have it in the back of your mind that a dog could bite also u should never underestimate a dog to be in that situation and always take care u read so many stories about dogs who aren't aggressive and normal biting children or killing people. I am not saying he is going to do this but obviously it is a worry and I don't think I'm in the wrong for having that in my mind I'm worried about him getting worse and worse and it escalating. 

I want to help him more than anything and don't want my partner to give him up but this behaviour has all come out of nowhere the only thing I can put it down to is the pregnancy and I will contact my insurance and see if they will cover a behaviourist.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Nettles said:


> I* may have missed it but why do you think he might go for the baby? Has he showed aggression towards humans/babies before? I thought the problem was him peeing in the house when left alone!
> If he's being aggressive with people then you most definitely need help from a behaviourist. Do you have pet insurance for him? Some insurances cover behaviourists so might be worth enquiring about it.*
> 
> If you are just assuming he may become aggressive with people because he's peeing indoors and misbehaving then I'm at a loss for words...
> ...


BIB are my thoughts too. We've gone from peeing in the house to now fearing he will attack the baby?  Unless OP is not filling in the gaps and this dog has/does show aggressive behaviour also, then there really is no reason to believe he'd attack.

I also think the OP has a bit of a dilemma on their hands. On the one hand they are seemingly trying everything...although these things take many months of consistency to show improvements. But I also feel the OP is leaning towards wanting to get rid of the dog, and I feel rehoming this dog in it's current state irresponsible to be honest and very unlikely the dog would even find a home with his current behaviour.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Jb2016lm said:


> The vet done loads of tests on him and said he is fine and healthy. Also if I'm in the same room as him and just stayed in that room with him constantly didn't leave didn't go to bed he doesn't pee so surely if he wasn't well he would do it when I'm there with him.
> 
> We have the money to care for him just not right now to be paying for a behaviourist as we have to buy other things we've always looked after him well he's insured vaccinated regular check ups. I don't see why having a dog means we can't also have a life as well I don't think it's fully down to bad training as he hasn't been this bad until now and he's 5 years old so that's 4 years my partners had him and he hasn't been bad like this.
> 
> ...


As @Nettles said, some insurance companies cover the cost of behaviourists. It's worth talking to your vet about this and seeing if that's the case in your situation.

ETA; I see that's your plan already. Fingers crossed your vet can help.

Also, I think when people keep mentioning the tests your vet should have taken, they mean a full blood panel and possibly others. As far as I'm aware you wouldn't get blood results back there and then which indicates bloods weren't taken. Again, another thing to consider.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

We paid an extra £80 for the urine to be sent away for more tests other than the test she done at the vets. 

Neither of us want to get rid him we both also know that rehoming him wouldn't be an option. I couldn't give him to anyone knowing he's behaviour unless they new what they were getting an wanted to invest time in him. We want to help him, I honestly thing he's behaviour from what I've just read online is down to my pregnancy.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

An as I said in the past he HAS bitten someone my partners out housemate and friend but he has never showed any signs of aggression with me or my partner...
So I don't know the situation of what or why that happened but I know it did. 

So I am allowed to have that worry in my mind especially when my dog is behaving out of character who knows what could happen. I didn't say he has or that he is going too but if it's happened before I'm not gonna not think about it I said I was worried about it not accused to the dog of doing it.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

I don't believe your dog is sick either but that's just my opinion and I would still be going back to the vet for further tests to be done just in case and to put my mind at ease.

It seems to me your dog is anxious. Perhaps as you say, maybe it's that you smell differently because you're pregnant, or perhaps it's because he had a few accidents and was punished for them, not realising the punishment was for peeing in the house. You say it's mostly when you leave him alone? Perhaps he associates your return with punishment causing him to be anxious.

I've been to countless classes for my own anxiety and also read quite a lot about SA in dogs and many of the explanations for things are exactly the same which is why I personally think he's anxious.

If anxious, the body prepares itself for a fight or flight response. It needs to rid itself of anything that could slow it down ie. urine and faeces. If deciding to stay and fight, the body needs to be agile and light on the feet. If deciding on a flight response, it needs to be able to run fast and doesn't want waste products weighing it down.

The adrenaline from the anxiety tells the lungs to work faster (causing panting and breathlessness) so they can send oxygen rich blood to places like the legs to enable faster running. Sending blood to areas such as the bowels and bladder would be pointless as they aren't going to save your life in an emergency. This means the bowels and bladder aren't running as efficiently as they normally would and therefore urine and faeces needs to be "dumped" more frequently than usual. Urine is often more concentrated and stronger smelling because it hasn't been processed by the body properly. 

I think you mentioned your dogs urine was very strong smelling? And there was huge puddles? If perfectly healthy, then the behaviour he is displaying would, to me, indicate anxiety.

Also, you say "you should always have it in the back of your mind that a dog can bite/kill people" and that "you're not in the wrong for thinking this" but that doesn't just apply to this dog which I believe you said was your partners? It should also apply to YOUR dog.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

It does apply to my dog aswell as my partners. I have thought it about both of them and we have been very prepared at how we are going to introduce them to the baby and it's scent and all the other stuff and make time so they are not pushed out either. And I know the rules I am going to follow and safety precautions I will take to make sure the risk is low of anything happening so it's not something not thought about but I just now have a bit more worry against the dog because of the stuff he is doing as his behaviour has escalated and I'm worried it will be something else he is going to start doing next. 

I agree with you on the anxiety part as I have suffered with this all of my life. We stopped quite a while ago punishing him when he does it he is completely ignored and he gets no reaction from either of us. 

I just don't know what else to try.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Jb2016lm said:


> It does apply to my dog aswell as my partners. I have thought it about both of them and we have been very prepared at how we are going to introduce them to the baby and it's scent and all the other stuff and make time so they are not pushed out either. And I know the rules I am going to follow and safety precautions I will take to make sure the risk is low of anything happening so it's not something not thought about but I just now have a bit more worry against the dog because of the stuff he is doing as his behaviour has escalated and I'm worried it will be something else he is going to start doing next.
> 
> I agree with you on the anxiety part as I have suffered with this all of my life. We stopped quite a while ago punishing him when he does it he is completely ignored and he gets no reaction from either of us.
> 
> I just don't know what else to try.


To be fair any training you put into place for managing the behaviour will take months worth of consistency, so you can't really say after two days you've tried everything. It sounds like whatever you was doing in that two days to reduce his behaviour was working though, so I'd stick with that in the mean time. With anxious dogs you have to gradually build the time up that they can be left alone and in the most extreme cases this could mean only popping out of the room for 5 mins before returning etc. If you have a baby gate you could try leaving him briefly in one room where he can still you at all times, but can't be with you and occasionally pop your head in the doorway and reward him for quiet, good behaviour with a handful of treats ( preferably high value ). Do you give him things such as Kongs?


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Jb2016lm said:


> The vet done loads of tests on him and said he is fine and healthy


What tests?


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Jb2016lm said:


> It does apply to my dog aswell as my partners. I have thought it about both of them and we have been very prepared at how we are going to introduce them to the baby and it's scent and all the other stuff and make time so they are not pushed out either. And I know the rules I am going to follow and safety precautions I will take to make sure the risk is low of anything happening so it's not something not thought about but I just now have a bit more worry against the dog because of the stuff he is doing as his behaviour has escalated and I'm worried it will be something else he is going to start doing next.
> 
> I agree with you on the anxiety part as I have suffered with this all of my life. We stopped quite a while ago punishing him when he does it he is completely ignored and he gets no reaction from either of us.
> 
> I just don't know what else to try.


Trying more and more and more things isn't going to help in my opinion. You need to be consistent and patient.

You know yourself, anxiety doesn't have a quick fix so it may take months and months to help him.

You have 4 months until your baby arrives, why don't you go back to treating him like a puppy. Praising him and rewarding him for going to the toilet outside, continue to clean up any accidents silently without punishment and gain his trust again.

Build up seperation periods slowly, only a few minutes at a time as he gets more comfortable BUT BE CONSISTENT. Don't give up at the first hurdle and flit to another solution as that's not going to help him. You've said yourself, you've tried everything else so what have you got to loose by starting over again with him? Hopefully you'd notice at least some small improvements after a few weeks as you build his trust again.

There's also a great sticky at the top of the page on seperation anxiety you could have a read through. I've found it really helpful with my puppy who has SA.


----------



## Jb2016lm (Sep 1, 2015)

It started in April and we have been trying since then all different options. I'm not expecting a drastic change overnight but I thought we would have at least got somewhere. I also contacted a behaviourist today and left my number so see what he says also we have been treating him like a puppy I've put the cage back up today in a different place with blankets all over it and inside so it's dark in there and tied the door open and not said anything about it to him and he's actually gone in there and is asleep right now so hopefully if we can make the cage a safe place for him if it is because my scent we can limit where he's doing it I'm not gonna do anything soon though just leave it up for him to go in an out of it.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

lorilu said:


> What tests?


What tests, besides the urine culture? What BLOOD tests?


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Jb2016lm said:


> It started in April and we have been trying since then all different options. I'm not expecting a drastic change overnight but I thought we would have at least got somewhere. I also contacted a behaviourist today and left my number so see what he says also we have been treating him like a puppy I've put the cage back up today in a different place with blankets all over it and inside so it's dark in there and tied the door open and not said anything about it to him and he's actually gone in there and is asleep right now so hopefully if we can make the cage a safe place for him if it is because my scent we can limit where he's doing it I'm not gonna do anything soon though just leave it up for him to go in an out of it.


Hopefully the behaviourist will be able to help you.

Good idea trying the crate again. When used correctly, it's a fantastic training tool. I couldn't be without our crate! Its great that you're letting him go in and out himself too. He'll feel more comfortable using it that way in the beginning.

There's also a great sticky on here about crate training that might help you.

Above all else though, please be consistent and stick with whatever plan of action you decide.

Good luck.


----------



## TracyDippy (Jul 2, 2015)

Might he be diabetic? Xx


----------



## TracyDippy (Jul 2, 2015)

My dog is trained but she likes to pee outside to leave her mark. Or in myates house cos she wants to show dominance over their dog... Also she paws us and scratches the back door to go out (very routined little darling).

Mine only goes in specific spots.trying to figure out why urs goes everywhere. Do u hav a back garden? Xxx


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Jb2016lm said:


> The vet done loads of tests on him and said he is fine and healthy. Also if I'm in the same room as him and just stayed in that room with him constantly didn't leave didn't go to bed he doesn't pee so surely if he wasn't well he would do it when I'm there with him.
> 
> We have the money to care for him just not right now to be paying for a behaviourist as we have to buy other things we've always looked after him well he's insured vaccinated regular check ups. I don't see why having a dog means we can't also have a life as well I don't think it's fully down to bad training as he hasn't been this bad until now and he's 5 years old so that's 4 years my partners had him and he hasn't been bad like this.
> 
> ...


I've quoted this one, but it could be any of yours posts from here on in.

I see you've got the crate up, covered in blankets and he was asleep in there? Great. Fantastic. Now you have something to work with.  If you see him in there again, give him a treat and a Good boy. Slowly start to introduce a Stay or Bed cue and build up the time between command/reward. Once he's happy to stay in there for a few minutes, gently close the door, immediately reopen it, and treat. Gradually build up the length of time the door is closed. Once he can happily go 5mins or so with the door closed before getting anxious, try feeding him in there. The second he finishes his meal, open the door. Then, start to gradually increase the length of time between him finishing his meal, to you opening the door. Start giving him a kong/chew in there. Basically, crate = good stuff happening = safe place.

That's crate training. Once he sees the crate as a safe place, you can start working on the SA.

Once he's happy to sleep in there, could you move the crate to your room, so that he's crated, but in the same room as you? Then, if he gets anxious during the night, just a "quiet, now" or "sleep" might be enough to reassure him. Once he's happy to sleep through the night, put an item of unwashed clothing in the crate and start to gradually move the crate back to where you want him to spend the night. The clothing item will smell of you and might be enough to help him settle. From there, you can gradually start to work on leaving him, but you build it up slowly - mere seconds at first, not minutes.

Have you tried an adaptil diffuser? They're about £20 and release a pheramone that his dam (mother) would have given off to calm him as a puppy.

Of course, I've said all that, but I defer to your behaviourist (so long as he or she is reputable and doesn't use coercive methods to get results). If they tell you something different, of course, please follow their advice.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

chickenfoot said:


> Have you tried crating him when you leave? He can't eliminate all over your house if he's crated. I am sorry to see he hasn't made much progress but the previous two nights shows that there is some!


If you read the OP's first post she stated that the crate has been used as punishment which is why we all advised her to stop using it for the time being. Hopefully she can re train the dog to associate the crate with good things and not with punishment which in fairness the OP has said they no longer do.



lorilu said:


> This is not behavior this is illness. Urinating huge amounts is caused by diseases such as kidney disease or diabetes to name two. Your vet should have done blood work. It still needs to be done. This dog is sick.


I agree and remain convinced there is an underlying medical issue. A urine test alone is not a thorough medical check - did they check his prostate for instance?


----------



## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Any updates...how is he doing?


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

You've asked for comments but every time someone suggests what the cause could be you dismiss it.

There have been some very good suggestions

!) - Get him vet checked - if his urine is very dark and very strong that actually suggests either an infection or that he is dehydrated for some reason (before you kick off, I am NOT suggesting that you are keeping him short of water - some medical conditions cause immense thirst, others make animals reluctant to drink, or to pee excessively. This causes dehydration)
Sorry - just finished reading the thread and I see that he has been vet-checked. I still think from your description of his urine that he might have a problem, though.
2) - If there is noting wrong with him physically, and he has previously been good with his house training, then it is definitely an anxiety issue. It may be separation anxiety, or he may have become frightened of you (even if you don't punish him, he knows you are angry - dogs feel these things) OR - he may be picking up your hormonal changes due to your pregnancy and this is stressing him. This is more common than you might think - animals are incredibly sensitive and changes like this do upset them. He could even think that he's protecting you by marking your hime with his very strong scent which would deter predators - this is what many wild canids (dog-type animals) do when there are cubs/pups.

I can imagine how tired you are and how frustrated you must be. You must be especially worried that when your baby arrives you will still have this problem, with all its attendant health risks, to cope with. I hope that there is something that can be done. I suspect this will sort itself out after your baby is born.


----------

