# Dubs Agreement Ends



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

It has been decided today that the Dubs amendment will end at the end of March 2017. The UK said they will take 350 migrant children and no more, there are currently 200 in the UK, 150 more will enter the UK before the end of March 2017.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38912428?client=ms-android-motorola
*Child migrants: UK to end 'Dubs amendment' commitment*

*A key route into the UK for children caught up in Europe's migrant crisis is to close after a total of 350 arrivals.*

In a written ministerial statement, the Home Office said it would stop receiving children via the so-called Dubs amendment at the end of March.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Absolutely shameful. What is our country becoming Theresa May promised to take 3,000 children. How anyone could support this goddam awful woman is beyond me. She is morally bankrupt.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Absolutely shameful. What is our country becoming Theresa May promised to take 3,000 children. How anyone could support this goddam awful woman is beyond me. She is morally bankrupt.


Tut tut Noush'

Are you implying that once upon a time she had morals?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> Tut tut Noush'
> 
> Are you implying that once upon a time she had morals?


As if! lol That witch was born evil. Didn't I read her father was a vicar?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> As if! lol That witch was born evil. Didn't I read her father was a vicar?


Hubert Brasier died in a car crash.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14562...eveals-shock-of-discovering-victims-identity/

I think she must have forgotten all about how she claimed her father instilled her with 'Christian kindness'

Either that or she completely forgot what 'Christian kindness' actually symbolises.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> Hubert Brasier died in a car crash.
> 
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14562...eveals-shock-of-discovering-victims-identity/
> 
> ...


Gosh I didnt realise he'd been tragically killed. Something went drastically wrong with her, that's for sure. I wonder what he would think of her now? I would feel deep shame if my children had turned out so cruel.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

A big question over children the only so called child refugees dumped in our town were 25 yr old stubbly chinned men it was so shameful they had to put tarpaulin up to stop the media cameras from exposing this sham being exposed


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I don't personally care for trump tbh but when he makes other country's wake up to whts really happening in the world and re evaluate there shortcomings I personally think its a good thing .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Creativecat said:


> A big question over children the only so called child refugees dumped in our town were 25 yr old stubbly chinned men it was so shameful they had to put tarpaulin up to stop the media cameras from exposing this sham being exposed


They are unaccompanied children. Their lives are at risk. How would you feel if they were British child refugees?



Creativecat said:


> I don't personally care for trump tbh but when he makes other country's wake up to whts really happening in the world and re evaluate there shortcomings I personally think its a good thing .


What is really happening?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Creativecat said: ↑


> A big question over children the only so called *child refugees dumped in our town were 25 yr old stubbly chinned men* it was so shameful they had to put tarpaulin up to stop the media cameras from exposing this sham being exposed





noushka05 said:


> They are unaccompanied children. Their lives are at risk. How would you feel if they were British child refugees?
> 
> What is really happening?


See this is were this becomes debatable because children are under the age of 18 not 25 some believe under the age of 16. 25 year olds are adults not children.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Obviously leaving vulnerable teenagers on the streets is right.

I have two. Imagine them dumped in another country, with no language, nothing...

Abysmal.Abhorrent.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> Obviously leaving vulnerable teenagers on the streets is right.
> 
> I have two. Imagine them dumped in another country, with no language, nothing...
> 
> Abysmal.Abhorrent.


There are 27+ countries they can be rehomed in, that isn't being nasty it's just they pass through these countries to reach the UK. Other EU countries need to face up to responsibility and rehome them, themselves. France has realised they need to do this. Alot of these children have no relatives in the UK and end up in the UK care system and put in the queue for adoption the queue that is already massive from unwanted UK children. Councils around the UK are refusing to take anymore because they cannot afford to put them in the care system. People forget the refugees that end up over here end up on the streets.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

stockwellcat said:


> Creativecat said: ↑
> 
> Noushka if u lived in my town like many other towns litters across the country and see how the impact on services and housing I think you would see things in a different light .
> I'm all for poeple pulling up government for there inadequacies and protesting which I agree with but sureley in fairness ur opposing is fair game to be scrutinised aswell .
> ...


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> There are 27+ countries they can be rehomed in, that isn't being nasty it's just they pass through these countries to reach the UK. Other EU countries need to face up to responsibility and rehome them, themselves. France has realised they need to do this.


Poland gave homes to million Ukrainians.

Much poorer country than Britain.
Surely 3000 children is not to much to ask for?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Compare our hateful PM & country to this -.

*Justin TrudeauVerified account*‏@JustinTrudeau

*#WelcomeToCanada*


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> Poland gave homes to million Ukrainians.
> 
> Much poorer country than Britain.
> Surely 3000 children is not to much to ask for?


The UK's care system is already over stretch and councils around the UK have said they can't take anymore as there is no room, there are already hundreds of thousands of unwanted UK children in the care system in the UK.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> The UK's care system is already over stretch and councils around the UK have said they can't take anymore as there is no room, there are already hundreds of thousands of unwanted UK children in the care system in the UK.


The reason councils are in such a state is because the tories have slashed their budgets. Nothing, whatsoever to do with refugees.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> The UK's care system is already over stretch and councils around the UK have said they can't take anymore as there is no room, there are already hundreds of thousands of unwanted UK children in the care system in the UK.


So is everywhere else?

Think Poland has so much better situation?

Those are lousy excuses.

If there are cuts and British economy struggles it is self made.

Still 3000 os not a 100 k or 1mln.

Surely other 27 countries have their share and many much more than Britain.

It reminds me that night in Bethlehem when there was "No room".


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> The reason councils are in such a state is because the tories have slashed their budgets. Nothing, whatsoever to do with refugees.


It costs £115,232.00 per annum to have a child in care in Bristol this is just one example of one council for one child in 2010. This information was provided under the freedom of information act, see attached PDF.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cost_of_council_care_home_for_1


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Poland gave home to millions of Ukrainians . And we have had a million polish come to Britain atleast lol mass migration on epic scales lol where will it all end .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> It costs £115,232.00 per annum to have a child in care in Bristol this is just one example of one council. This information was provided under the freedom of information act, see attached PDF.


And? We are the one of the wealthiest countries on the planet. We can afford to give tax breaks to the elite & giant corporations. We can afford to waste millions on an unscientific badger cull.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Creativecat said:


> Poland gave home to millions of Ukrainians . And we have had a million polish come to Britain atleast lol mass migration on epic scales lol where will it all end .


Can you post your references please?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> And? We are the one of the wealthiest countries on the planet. We can afford to give tax breaks to the elite & giant corporations. We can afford to waste millions on an unscientific badger cull.


And. It is costing the UK tax payer to keep children in care that is the point. As I said before that there are no places available in care homes in the UK and... The majority of them aren't children in the first place and... Why aren't EU countries taking them in?


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Migration and badger culls in the same thread oh my lord lol bless u noushka


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> And? We are the one of the wealthiest countries on the planet. We can afford to give tax breaks to the elite & giant corporations. We can afford to waste millions on an unscientific badger cull.


What have badger culls got to do with child migrants? We aren't talking about animals in this thread we are talking about the dubs amendment.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

References for wht pray tell . Uk migration . Just look at how the uk population has exploded the last 5 yrs I think tht speaks volumes doesn't it


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Creativecat said:


> References for wht pray tell . Uk migration . Just look at how the uk population has exploded the last 5 yrs I think tht speaks volumes doesn't it


People forget that England, Scotland, and Wales are an island with no attachment to the continent called Europe. There is only so much room available on an island you know. As I said before migrants end up on the streets in the UK so they are no better off than they are in Europe.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I thought it was 3000 not 300?


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

stockwellcat said:


> And. It is costing the UK tax payer to keep children in care that is the point. As I said before that there are no places available in care homes in the UK and... The majority of them aren't children in the first place and... Why aren't EU countries taking them in?


Yes, it's costing us a fortune.

Personally if my children were at a school where these 'child' refugees are being placed I be quite worried that they are older than they are supposed to be. And a disproportionate number of them seem to be born on the 1st Jan. Weird.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rona said:


> I thought it was 3000 not 300?


It was but the Home Office has decided to only take 350 and end the dubs amendment in March 2017. The dubs amendment has been abused by adults claiming they are children to get to the UK and entered into the UK with no ID etc and the UK authorities having to take there word for it.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> And. It is costing the UK tax payer to keep children in care that is the point. As I said before that there are no places available in care homes in the UK and... The majority of them aren't children in the first place and... Why aren't EU countries taking them in?


Thank god we've still got leaders with moral decency & thank god my local big city welcomes refugees & asylum seekers & thats despite being one of the poorest in the country. I feel proud.














Creativecat said:


> Migration and badger culls in the same thread oh my lord lol bless u noushka


Making a point the government can find plenty of money when it suits.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> Thank god we've still got leaders with moral decency & thank god my local big city welcomes refugees & asylum seekers & thats despite being one of the poorest in the country. I feel proud.


You will find NS and the SNP are going to have to fall in line and behave. The immigration laws across the UK are made by the UK Government in Westminster and not the Scottish Assembly. The Dubs Amendment also applies to Scotland so when it ends it will end in Scotland.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Tht is the point stock well cat said as 
My daughter was in school with so called children tht needed a shave . How can tht be right .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> *You will find NS and the SNP are going to have to fall in line and behave.* The immigration laws across the UK are made by the UK Government in Westminster and not the Scottish Assembly. The Dubs Amendment also applies to Scotland so when it ends it will end in Scotland.


Is there any wonder they want independence??



Creativecat said:


> Tht is the point stock well cat said as
> My daughter was in school with so called children tht needed a shave . How can tht be right .


:Hilarious


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> It was but the Home Office has decided to only take 350 and end the dubs amendment in March 2017. The dubs amendment has been abused by adults claiming they are children to get to the UK and entered into the UK with no ID etc and the UK authorities having to take there word for it.


But those figures quoted aren't the total figure we've taken, just the ones that haven't any family at all. How many have come with family ties?

Europe isn't the whole world. There were estimated to be about 80,000 of these children. Do the sums........if we had taken 3000, that would be as many as any other EU country and we are tiny compared to most. What are the rest of the free world doing?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have kept to the promise, if at all we have actually broken it, which I'm not sure we have. Just it's about time other countries take the same burden..................


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Theres 90,000 lone refugee children in Europe & we've taken 350. What has happened to our humanity ?


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Dubs shamed Cameron in to passing the amendment, and his party have wasted no time in removing it, but it was never something they wanted to do. In fact they didn't really implement it - back in September Dubs was finding that out 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...pe-former-child-refugee-lord-dubs-calais-camp

shame: a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behaviour.
compassion: sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others
greed: intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food.
I am ashamed of England, which has so little compassion and so much greed. I wish there were more of us that felt that shame, and didn't have "mine" as their first instinct.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> Theres 90,000 lone refugee children in Europe & we've 350. What has happened to our humanity ?


So called child migrants...


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06805

"As of September 2016 a total of 4,414 people have been granted humanitarian protection under the Syrian Vulnerable Person Resettlement Programme (VPRP) since its launch"

"In addition to the VPRP, the Government committed itself to providing resettlement for up to 3,000 vulnerable children *(and family members)* from conflict situations in the Middle East and North Africa region, and for an unspecified number of unaccompanied refugee children currently in Europe. Neither of these schemes would be limited to Syrian nationals"

"In addition to the VPRP, the Government committed itself to providing resettlement for up to 3,000 vulnerable children (and family members) from conflict situations in the Middle East and North Africa region, and for an unspecified number of unaccompanied refugee children currently in Europe. Neither of these schemes would be limited to Syrian nationals."

I'm getting a little fed up with all the negative news.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> View attachment 300008
> 
> View attachment 300009
> 
> View attachment 300010


The hate mongering Sun. Says it all.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stockwellcat said:


> 25 year olds are adults not children


@stockwellcat: apparently the ''foster parents'' in many cases mentioned the fact that they were shaving. One thing that struck me was that the photos I saw were nearly all male. I have no doubt someone will trawl thro' a few old issues of The Guardian and produce a picture of a female but what the hell...


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jonescat said:


> Dubs shamed Cameron in to passing the amendment, and his party have wasted no time in removing it, but it was never something they wanted to do. In fact they didn't really implement it - back in September Dubs was finding that out
> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...pe-former-child-refugee-lord-dubs-calais-camp
> 
> shame: a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behaviour.
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more. How can people be so indifferent to their suffering? Because, Farage & rags like the Sun have dehumanised them for so long, I guess.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Jonescat said:


> I am ashamed of England, which has so little compassion and so much greed. I wish there were more of us that felt that shame, and didn't have "mine" as their first instinct.


Easy when you are a have, a bit harder when you are a have not, and there's getting more and more have nots in this country


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

How u can say little compassion 
I find breathtaking . When all this country does is appease minority's and bend over backwards treading on eggshells and help give out millions of pounds day in and day out in aid and. Help
Others in misfortune . And Just keep being put down by people shameful . 
The tail wagging the dog comes to mind


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rona said:


> Easy when you are a have, a bit harder when you are a have not, and there's getting more and more have nots in this country


I'm not a 'have'............


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

noushka05 said:


> Theres 90,000 lone refugee children in Europe & we've taken 350. What has happened to our humanity ?


Wow an actual child. And a female one at that by the looks of it. That's a rarity.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

For those who might want to sign:
http://www.citizensuk.org/dubs_petition?recruiter_id=35095


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Jonescat said:


> For those who might want to sign:
> http://www.citizensuk.org/dubs_petition?recruiter_id=35095


Won't make any difference.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

rona said:


> Easy when you are a have, a bit harder when you are a have not, and there's getting more and more have nots in this country


Well it is only going to get harder. The WEF identify inequality (rising income and wealth disparity) as the top trend that will determine global trends this year. The haves are going to have to choose between pulling up the drawbridge or sharing.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

It probably won't make a difference, largely because people like you, who are in the majority, don't want it to, so sleep easy in your beds. However, for those who want to say "not in my name", there is the opportunity.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stockwellcat said:


> having to take there word for it


@stockwellcat: this is because doing dental checks to verify they are 24, and not 14 as they say they are, would be against their human rights.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

rona said:


> Easy when you are a have, a bit harder when you are a have not, and *there's* getting *more and more have nots in this country*


_That's because the haves are demanding far more of the have nots._

_Government; Never before has so much been taken by so few.._

_@stockwellcat When did you start shaving?_

_I was 15._

_Very good friends of mine who live in England are originally from the Yemen. Before I left those shores, (England) their son was just 13. His father first showed him how to shave with a wet razor shortly after his 12th birthday.

Oh, and I have seen his birth certificate.............he was born in England._


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stockwellcat said:


> So called child migrants...


Where are the girls?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Zaros said:


> _That's because the haves are demanding far more of the have nots._
> 
> _Government; Never before has so much been taken by so few.._


I agree and the EU has made it so much easier ......................


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Not just refugees in Europe but South Sudan , rape , murder , starvation , has been on the ITV news but seems to be over looked because of Trump and Brexit .

More genuine child refugees should be taking in to the UK but we do have to acknowledge the shortages of care and after care and the shortages of foster home s. Lack of suitable foster homes isn't a problem the government has created .

Local councils near ports are obliged to take in any lone child that lands at their port and they do so .


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2017)

I don’t understand the argument of not helping refugee children because there are children in this country who need help. 
There is a word in the English language - and. It applies here. 
You can help refugee children AND help UK resident children. One does not exclude the other. 

The question is, are you looking for ways to make it work, or are you looking for excuses to not have to help?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

ouesi said:


> I don't understand the argument of not helping refugee children because there are children in this country who need help.
> There is a word in the English language - and. It applies here.
> You can help refugee children AND help UK resident children. One does not exclude the other.
> 
> The question is, are you looking for ways to make it work, or are you looking for excuses to not have to help?


The Refugee Children arent in the UK, the dubs Amendment is to bring Refugee children to the UK even though they are already in safe countries like France, Germany, Spain, Greece etc. The other 27 EU members need to take some responsibility instead of using the UK as a dumping ground. France has already agreed to take in some children refugees. The Children already in the UK are in children's homes and only a few have been reunited with long lost relatives. The problem is the UK already has a huge problem with abandoned, abused, neglected and unwanted UK children to the point there is no space in care homes etc for them so taking more in from other European countries is putting a huge strain on resources and local councils money as it costs over £115 thousand plus a year to have one child in the care system.

The UK Government is working hard with charities in Europe to find refugee children in Europe homes in other European countries.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> The hate mongering Sun. Says it all.


So if you post it - from whatever dubious source its all A OK and 110% true, if anyone else does it simply does not enter your radar because it comes from the "hate mongering Sun"
There is no denying some of these "kids" simply are NOT children!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Calvine said:


> Where are the girls?


A far more dangerous journey for girls so fewer make it through maybe?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Lexiedhb said:


> There is no denying some of these "kids" simply are NOT children!


Absolutely true and I have some direct experience of this with friends who foster. That doesn't mean we shouldn't want to help children though. Some of those who would now be classed as adults now were not when they started out. Just because we see a given distance in terms of a flight lasting a few hours this isn't how refugees travel - it can takes months or years.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Original Statement 

http://www.parliament.uk/business/p.../written-statement/Commons/2017-02-08/HCWS467
Skip to content




http://www.parliament.uk/business/p.../written-statement/Commons/2017-02-08/HCWS467


*Immigration:Written statement - HCWS467 *
WS
Home Office
Made on: 08 February 2017
Made by: Mr Robert Goodwill (The Minister of State for Immigration)

HCWS467
* Immigration *

The Government takes the welfare of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children extremely seriously, and the UK has a proud history of providing protection for those in need, including some of the most vulnerable children affected by the migration crisis. The Government's strategy is to support international efforts to find a comprehensive and sustainable solution to the refugee crisis; we must deal with its root causes, as well as respond to the consequences. That is why the UK has been at the forefront of the response to the events in Syria and the region, pledging over £2.3 billion in aid - our largest ever humanitarian response to a single crisis. We are also one of the few EU countries to meet our commitment to spending 0.7 per cent of Gross National Income on overseas aid.

We have a comprehensive approach to tackling these issues both at home and overseas. By the end of this Parliament, we will have resettled 20,000 Syrian nationals through our Syrian Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme and a further 3,000 of the most vulnerable children and their families from the Middle East and North Africa region under the Vulnerable Children's Resettlement Scheme. We also received over 33,000 asylum claims in the UK last year.

The number of unaccompanied asylum-seeking and refugee children arriving in the UK has risen over the last few years, including in response to this Government's commitment to the transfer of hundreds of children from Calais and to address the humanitarian needs of the most vulnerable children. The UK has contributed significantly to hosting, supporting and protecting the most vulnerable children affected by the migration crisis. In the year ending September 2016, the UK granted asylum or another form of leave to over 8,000 children. This includes those who claimed asylum in the UK, those who were brought to the UK through our resettlement schemes, those transferred from within Europe, and those granted a refugee family reunion visa.

In 2016, we transferred over 900 unaccompanied asylum-seeking children to the UK from Europe. This included more than 750 from France as part of the UK's support for the Calais camp clearance. Over 200 of those children met the published criteria for section 67 of the Immigration Act. The remainder were transferred under an accelerated process based on the family reunion criteria of the Dublin Regulation. This was a one-off process, based on the principles of the Dublin framework but operated outside of it, and was implemented in response to the unique circumstances of the Calais camp clearance. All children not transferred to the UK are in the care of the French authorities.

The UK can be proud of its record of helping refugee children and I can today announce, in accordance with section 67 of the Immigration Act, that the Government will transfer the specified number of 350 children pursuant to that section, who reasonably meet the intention and spirit behind the provision. This number includes over 200 children already transferred under section 67 from France. It does not include children transferred to UK where they have close family here. We will announce in due course the basis on which further children will be transferred from Europe to the UK under section 67 of the Immigration Act to the specified number.

As required by the legislation, we have consulted with local authorities on their capacity to care for and support unaccompanied asylum-seeking children before arriving at this number. Local authorities told us they have capacity for around 400 unaccompanied asylum-seeking children until the end of this financial year. We estimate that at least 50 of the family reunion cases transferred from France as part of the Calais clearance will require a local authority placement in cases where the family reunion does not work out. We are grateful for the way in which local authorities have stepped up to provide places for those arriving and we will continue to work closely to address capacity needs.

The Government will continue to meet our obligations under the Dublin Regulation and accept responsibility for processing asylum claims where the UK is determined to be the responsible Member State, ensuring that it is in their best interests to come here. We are working closely with European partners to ensure the timely and efficient operation of the Dublin Regulation.

Of the over 4,400 individuals resettled through the Syrian Vulnerable Persons Resettlement scheme so far, around half are children and last year we welcomed the first families to the UK under the Vulnerable Children's Resettlement Scheme. We are fully committed to an effective response in the affected regions and to resettling the most vulnerable directly from those regions. Within Europe, the UK has also established a £10 million Refugee Children's Fund to support the needs of vulnerable refugee and migrant children arriving in Europe. The fund includes targeted support to meet the specific needs of unaccompanied and separated children.

Here in the UK, we have launched the National Transfer Scheme to ensure a fairer distribution of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children across England and ease pressure on the children's services of those local authorities with large numbers of unaccompanied children. To implement the National Transfer Scheme the Home Office has established a dedicated team to process the transfer of children quickly whilst at the same time acting in accordance with the child's best interests. The Home Office also published detailed guidance for local authorities setting out the processes involved in transferring unaccompanied asylum-seeking children from one local authority to another, including the need to ensure that the scheme is driven by the welfare of the child.

As announced on 1 November, the Government will also deliver a safeguarding strategy for unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. This will ensure the Government puts in place a comprehensive safeguarding strategy for unaccompanied asylum-seeking and refugee children living in or being transferred or resettled to the UK.

To further support the transfer arrangements and underline our commitment to unaccompanied asylum-seeking children, the Government significantly increased the funding it provides to local authorities who look after unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. Local authorities now receive £41,610 per annum for each unaccompanied asylum-seeking child aged under 16 and £33,215 per annum for unaccompanied asylum-seeking child aged 16 and 17. This represents a 20% and 28% increase in funding respectively. In addition, the Government went further and also increased the funding it provides to local authorities for those young people who turn 18 and go on to attract leaving care support by 33%. These significant increases in Government funding will have a very positive impact on local authorities' ability to care for unaccompanied asylum-seeking children.

The Government has also announced the £140 million Controlling Migration Fund in England, which is intended to cover a broad range of costs associated with migration. It cannot duplicate or top up unaccompanied asylum-seeking children rates, but it may support short-term costs not included in the mainstream unaccompanied asylum-seeking children grant and costs related to family reunion cases. This could include costs such as the safeguarding assessments, recruitment campaigns for social workers or support workers, specialist counselling or training on the specific needs of unaccompanied children. Additional funding has also been offered to Strategic Migration Partnerships across the UK to help them bolster local structures and ensure they are equipped to deal with the diverse needs of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children.

The Government has taken significant steps to improve an already comprehensive approach to supporting asylum-seeking and refugee children. This latest announcement provides further evidence of the Government's commitment to playing its part in the global migration crisis. In addition to the tens of thousands of children in conflict regions and in Europe that are benefiting from UK aid and development assistance, we are providing protection to thousands of children in the UK each year.

The UK should be proud of its overall contribution.

This statement has also been made in the House of Lords: HLWS469
*Share this page*

i


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2017)

stockwellcat said:


> The Refugee Children arent in the UK, the dubs Amendment is to bring Refugee children to the UK even though they are already in safe countries like France, Germany, Spain, Greece etc. The other 27 EU members need to take some responsibility instead of using the UK as a dumping ground. France has already agreed to take in some children refugees. The Children already in the UK are in children's homes and only a few have been reunited with long lost relatives. The problem is the UK already has a huge problem with abandoned, abused, neglected and unwanted UK children to the point there is no space in care homes etc for them so taking more in from Europe is putting a huge strain on resources.
> 
> The UK Government is working hard with charities in Europe to find refugee children in Europe homes in other Europe an countries.


Thank you for clarifying. My statement still stands though. You can help the ones already here AND help the ones coming in. If you want to. There is money and resources in a country like the UK. It's just a question of where folks choose to prioritize that money and those resources.

I strongly believe that those who rest comfortably at night have the moral obligation to help those who don't.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Lord Dubs is not giving up just yet
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ept-vulnerable-refugee-children-a7570586.html


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Zaros said:


> _That's because the haves are demanding far more of the have nots._
> 
> _Government; Never before has so much been taken by so few.._
> 
> ...


When I was at school some of the boys were having to shave, proud of doing so they were, some of the girls were also shaving facial hair but slightly less proud of it. Well if that is still going on in British schools today, if teenage boys are proudly standing in front of shaving mirrors and girls, behind locked doors, are standing in front of shaving mirrors before collecting their bags and going of to school that is a bloody disgrace. There needs to be a petition right now to prevent anyone who is shaving going to school. Using tax payers money, getting an education while sporting a shaving rash and little bits of toilet paper stuck to your face, it`s been going on to long, costing us thousands keeping you hairy faced buggers at school. Its going to stop!!


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I would be the first to offer help to GENUINE children and couldn't turn my back on these unfortunate kids . But the argument I see tht it's being grossley abused . I constantly see young men in my town being housed . I spoke to some one day and they said they were housed and all there utility bills and rent being paid . And even from there own mouths smirked why is your country so gullable . I think tht says it all in my view . I don't blame them I blame this country for allowing this to be a burdened on the British tax payer . I think poeple are now slowley waking up to whats really happening in our society and sick of being mugged off


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Jonescat said:


> Lord Dubs is not giving up just yet
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ept-vulnerable-refugee-children-a7570586.html


I see the age has been lowered from 18 to 15 according to the news report you attached. They kept that quiet.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

3dogs2cats said:


> When I was at school some of the boys were having to shave, proud of doing so they were, some of the girls were also shaving facial hair but slightly less proud of it. Well if that is still going on in British schools today, if teenage boys are proudly standing in front of shaving mirrors and girls, behind locked doors, are standing in front of shaving mirrors before collecting their bags and going of to school that is a bloody disgrace. There needs to be a petition right now to prevent anyone who is shaving going to school. Using tax payers money, getting an education while sporting a shaving rash and little bits of toilet paper stuck to your face, it`s been going on to long, costing us thousands keeping you hairy faced buggers at school. Its going to stop!!


A teen wolf epidemic pmsl


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

havoc said:


> Absolutely true and I have some direct experience of this with friends who foster. That doesn't mean we shouldn't want to help children though. Some of those who would now be classed as adults now were not when they started out. Just because we see a given distance in terms of a flight lasting a few hours this isn't how refugees travel - it can takes months or years.


Yes that's true and very sad but there is a shortage of fosters homes and if you place an older refugee then that is one less space for a young child .
Generally children in foster are turfed out and given accommodation such as bedsits when they reach 18 . 
In this area , some children's homes are used for adolescents only who have behavioural problems or cant find foster homes , the younger ones are fostered or adopted if possible . Our local council advertise for foster parents all the time .


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Hansard in November
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commo...-300854DDEA74/CalaisChildrenAndImmigrationAct

* Mr Goodwill - Minister for Immigration *
 
The demographics of the children in the camp are that 90% were male and 60% of them were in the age group of 16 and above. We are determined to assess the most vulnerable children, as they are the ones whom the Dubs amendment suggests that we assess. That includes those who are 12 and under; those who are 15 and below whose nationalities are likely to qualify them for refugee status; and those at high risk of sexual exploitation, including particularly the girls who could be trafficked.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Jonescat said:


> Hansard in November
> https://hansard.parliament.uk/commo...-300854DDEA74/CalaisChildrenAndImmigrationAct
> 
> * Mr Goodwill - Minister for Immigration *
> ...


If that's the case then, way were the people arriving in October 2016 aged 14 and 17 and some aged 21 to 25:

*'These don't look like children to me': concerns raised over ages of child refugees arriving in Britain *
The Home Office insisted it had "verified" the ages of all the refugees and that all of those who were brought to the UK were aged between 14 and 17.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...arrive-in-bri/amp/?client=ms-android-motorola

*Officials only challenge age of child refugees if they look over 25*
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...hey-look-over/amp/?client=ms-android-motorola

The point I am making is 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25 year olds aren't 15 and are actually classed as adults not children. I buy the arguement that children are under the age of 16 but not above.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

My thumb is throbbing . Half time now anyone for a piece of orange 
Pmsl


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> The point I am making is *16, 17, 18*, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25 *year olds aren't 15 and are actually classed as adults not children. *I buy the arguement that children are under the age of 16 but not above.


_The UN Convention on the rights of children actually defines a child as 'A person under the age of 18' unless the law applicable to that child indicates otherwise.
UK law is in agreement with this._

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CRC.aspx


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zaros said:


> _The UN Convention on the rights of children actually defines a child as 'A person under the age of 18' unless the law applicable to that child indicates otherwise.
> UK law is in agreement with this._
> 
> http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CRC.aspx


Apparently according to the news article posted this has been changed to under 15.



> quietly scrapped a pledge to help thousands of lone asylum seekers under the age of 15.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ept-vulnerable-refugee-children-a7570586.html


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## Smuge (Feb 6, 2017)

Had to happen.

Councils don't even have enough houses for the people currently living in the UK never mind those outside it.

A sad but true fact.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Creativecat said:


> I would be the first to offer help to GENUINE children and couldn't turn my back on these unfortunate kids . But the argument I see tht it's being grossley abused . I constantly see young men in my town being housed . I spoke to some one day and they said they were housed and all there utility bills and rent being paid . And even from there own mouths smirked why is your country so gullable . I think tht says it all in my view . I don't blame them I blame this country for allowing this to be a burdened on the British tax payer . I think poeple are now slowley waking up to whats really happening in our society and sick of being mugged off


Shame that these people are making us so cynical. It's up to the authorities to tighten the criteria


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> Yes that's true and very sad but there is a shortage of fosters homes and if you place an older refugee then that is one less space for a young child .
> Generally children in foster are turfed out and given accommodation such as bedsits when they reach 18 .
> In this area , some children's homes are used for adolescents only who have behavioural problems or cant find foster homes , the younger ones are fostered or adopted if possible . Our local council advertise for foster parents all the time .


I have applied to foster,
because i have a huge knowledge and lots of training in Autism and Mental health problems, I felt , now theyre older, it would be a pity for that to go to waste
I said I was happy to take any age upto 10 and either gender, or inbetween, and any ethnicity, a disabled child, whether physical or behavoural/sen, and, yes id be happy to take a refugee

I have been turned down by all I have contacted so far
why?
im over 50 - no
im disabled - no
im widowed, therefore single - no
I am christian and go to church when im able - no
i am on benefits - esa and pip-no

the reason
I have, at the moment, 4 dogs living here. Apparently 3 dogs would be ok, any size any, legal, breed it would be ok
4 dogs equal a pack and a pack equals dangerous and likely to bond and attack

Have to say when the temp foster goes I will apply again, but really? what blooming tosh


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> Apparently according to the news article posted this has been changed to under 15.
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ept-vulnerable-refugee-children-a7570586.html


 The news article highlights only the controversy over the Govt turning its back on 'child' refugees. It does not make any mention or pay any regard to the United Nations convention on the rights of children.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zaros said:


> The news article highlights only the controversy over the Govt turning its back on 'child' refugees. It does not make any mention or pay any regard to the United Nations convention on the rights of children.


Yes but this paragraph states under 15's in the article:


> The Holocaust survivor who forced the government to accept child refugees is demanding they keep their promise after they quietly scrapped a pledge to help thousands of lone asylum seekers *under the age of 15*


So the age has been changed from 18 to 15 according to this newspaper article. You can't miss the paragraph it's under Lord Dub's photo.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ept-vulnerable-refugee-children-a7570586.html


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

havoc said:


> Absolutely true and I have some direct experience of this with friends who foster. That doesn't mean we shouldn't want to help children though. Some of those who would now be classed as adults now were not when they started out. Just because we see a given distance in terms of a flight lasting a few hours this isn't how refugees travel - it can takes months or years.


I didnt say we shouldn't help these people, but I fail to see how classing a 25 year old as a child, and treating them as such helps.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

mrs phas said:


> I have applied to foster,
> because i have a huge knowledge and lots of training in Autism and Mental health problems, I felt , now theyre older, it would be a pity for that to go to waste
> I said I was happy to take any age upto 10 and either gender, or inbetween, and any ethnicity, a disabled child, whether physical or behavoural/sen, and, yes id be happy to take a refugee
> 
> ...


 Thats such a shame, with your experience, you would be ideal .

Many people are coming forward to foster but it does need thinking through.
If accepted , They 'll need good back up to help them cope with traumarised children who don't speak English, they will need to understand the child's religion and also how long are they prepared to foster a child for , it could be months . Some children are in foster for years .


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> Yes but this paragraph states under 15's in the article:
> 
> So the age has been changed from 18 to 15 according to this newspaper article.


 The Government has not changed its understanding of the legal definition of a child. (Where is the resolution that claims it has)

The Govt has, however, changed its attitude over the responsibility of refugee children of specific ages.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> I didnt say we shouldn't help these people, but I fail to see how classing a 25 year old as a child, and treating them as such helps.


if you read most policies regarding 'youth' 'young peoples services' camhs etc they are all aged upto 24, they say 25 but its when you hit 25, not when you leave age 25
my son with bipolar and personality disorder etc has already been told that what teeny bit of help he can access, will end on his birthday this year and he will move to the great catchall of adult services, where there is exactly zero monies being put into
so if 25 is generally agreed to mark the end of adolescence, and movement into adult services, for the children of this country, then surely it should be the same for those who have to claim asylum

Personally i think 18, which is now school leaving age [unless going into further education or training, or have a job to go to] should be the bar, Although I would still house a young person older than this* IF *they were doing further education or an apprenticeship, nvq etc


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> As if! lol That witch was born evil. Didn't I read her father was a vicar?





noushka05 said:


> Gosh I didnt realise he'd been tragically killed. Something went drastically wrong with her, that's for sure. I wonder what he would think of her now? I would feel deep shame if my children had turned out so cruel.


Noush for someone who promotes compassion and caring for others your character assassinations are sometimes quite outrageous. Does it make you feel better to call another human being a witch, born evil and that you wonder what her dead father would think of her. All leaders have to make decisions, we live in the real world not fluffy forum land. Jeremy Corbyn would have to make some pretty tough decisions too and ones that not everyone would agree with. Why can't you stick to the policies and leave the personal attacks out of things?



noushka05 said:


> I'm not a 'have'............


I think you are by refugee's standards?

As for 24-25 year olds being classed as children, I never heard such a load of tosh. At 21 I'd left home, was living in a flat on my own in London, working as a 3rd year student nurse at a London teaching hospital and being left in charge of a ward of 30 acutely ill patients on night shifts. One minute we are being told 16 year olds should have the right to vote and the next they are children until they are 24. If that is the case stop them driving cars, stop them voting and stop them smoking and drinking oh and having sex too as its not right for children to have children. What a load of cobblers.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MilleD said:


> Wow an actual child. And a female one at that by the looks of it. That's a rarity.


I'm I right in guessing you're not a mother? The reason there are disproportionately more boys is their parents send them away to save them from being forced to fight.



Jonescat said:


> For those who might want to sign:
> http://www.citizensuk.org/dubs_petition?recruiter_id=35095


Thank you.



Lexiedhb said:


> So if you post it - from whatever dubious source its all A OK and 110% true, if anyone else does it simply does not enter your radar because it comes from the "hate mongering Sun"
> There is no denying some of these "kids" simply are NOT children!


Don't you bother to fact check anything? If I think something is dubious, thats what I tend to do.

These bile spewing rags have helped erode the conscience of this country. Their billionaire non-dom owners are one of the greatest threats to our democracy.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Noush for someone who promotes compassion and caring for others your character assassinations are sometimes quite outrageous. Does it make you feel better to call another human being a witch, born evil and that you wonder what her dead father would think of her. All leaders have to make decisions, we live in the real world not fluffy forum land. Jeremy Corbyn would have to make some pretty tough decisions too and ones that not everyone would agree with. Why can't you stick to the policies and leave the personal attacks out of things?
> 
> I think you are by refugee's standards?
> 
> As for 24-25 year olds being classed as children, I never heard such a load of tosh. At 21 I'd left home, was living in a flat on my own in London, working as a 3rd year student nurse at a London teaching hospital and being left in charge of a ward of 30 acutely ill patients on night shifts. One minute we are being told 16 year olds should have the right to vote and the next they are children until they are 24. If that is the case stop them driving cars, stop them voting and stop them smoking and drinking oh and having sex too as its not right for children to have children. What a load of cobblers.


She is deliberately destroying innocent lives, peddling hate & lies. I feel nothing but contempt for her, sorry.

And that clearly wasnt the point I was making.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

mrs phas said:


> if you read most policies regarding 'youth' 'young peoples services' camhs etc they are all aged upto 24, they say 25 but its when you hit 25, not when you leave age 25
> my son with bipolar and personality disorder etc has already been told that what teeny bit of help he can access, will end on his birthday this year and he will move to the great catchall of adult services, where there is exactly zero monies being put into
> so if 25 is generally agreed to mark the end of adolescence, and movement into adult services, for the children of this country, then surely it should be the same for those who have to claim asylum
> 
> Personally i think 18, which is now school leaving age [unless going into further education or training, or have a job to go to] should be the bar, Although I would still house a young person older than this* IF *they were doing further education or an apprenticeship, nvq etc


I abaolutely agree with u. Having been through what they have, I imagine they are far from child like. Are they actually being put in schools aged 25, I have no idea. Unless they have special needs, ( outside trauma, not knowing the language etc) then they should be treated as adults imo


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> I'm I right in guessing you're not a mother? The reason there are disproportionately more boys is their parents send them away to save them from being forced to fight.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> ...


If you however happen to agree with what has been printed, then its ok? And what on earth has " being a mother" got to do with it?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lexiedhb said:


> If you however happen to agree with what has been printed, then its ok? And what on earth has " being a mother" got to do with it?


I try to fact check most things - I think in this era of 'alternative facts' its more important then ever to.

Being a mother to two 'youths' myself, I feel for ALL the children, the young men, all of them - the adults too. I would hope people would spare some compassion if my boys were ever in such terrible plight.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> And. It is costing the UK tax payer to keep children in care that is the point. As I said before that there are no places available in care homes in the UK and... The majority of them aren't children in the first place and... Why aren't EU countries taking them in?


As a UK taxpayer, my money goes to far worse things than providing for refugee children.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

I never liked AA Gill (for obvious reasons) but he was a fierce advocate for refugees and this is one of the most powerful things I've ever read on the subject. Everyone should read this.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> I try to fact check most things - I think in this era of 'alternative facts' its more important then ever to.
> 
> Being a mother to two 'youths' myself, I feel for ALL the children, the young men, all of them - the adults too. I would hope people would spare some compassion if my boys were ever in such terrible plight.


absolutely. I didn't once say, or infer that these people should not be helped, just that I fail to see how the help would be relevant, if they are treating 8 year olds and 24 year olds as having the same needs


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

noushka05 said:


> I'm I right in guessing you're not a mother? The reason there are disproportionately more boys is their parents send them away to save them from being forced to fight.


No I'm infertile but thanks for asking.

I'm also not naïve.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lexiedhb said:


> absolutely. I didn't once say, or infer that these people should not be helped, just that I fail to see how the help would be relevant, if they are treating 8 year olds and 24 year olds as having the same needs


But they are not treating 8 year olds & 24 year olds as having the same needs. Well actually they are now, arent they?!



MilleD said:


> No I'm infertile but thanks for asking.
> 
> I'm also not naïve.


Sorry if I offended or upset you in any way, that was never my intention.

I'm not naive either. There are thousands of vulnerable children out there, trying to survive on their own. Turning our backs on them is absolutely shameful.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> But they are not treating 8 year olds & 24 year olds as having the same needs. Well actually they are now, arent they?!
> 
> Sorry if I offended or upset you in any way, that was never my intention.
> 
> I'm not naive either. There are thousands of vulnerable children out there, trying to survive on their own. Turning our backs on them is absolutely shameful.


I don't think anyone is disagreeing about vulnerable children - what we are disagreeing about is abusing the system by allowing fully grown men to enter the country under the guise of being a child.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I don't think anyone is disagreeing about vulnerable children - what we are disagreeing about is abusing the system by allowing fully grown men to enter the country under the guise of being a child.


Its up,to the Home Office who they bring in. They could have brought in the young children first if they'd wanted to. Why did they bring in the older boys under the Dublin agreement first? (I wonder......)


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> Its up,to the Home Office who they bring in. They could have brought in the young children first if they'd wanted to. Why did they bring in the older boys under the Dublin agreement first? (I wonder......)


That's a good question.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> I try to fact check most things - I think in this era of 'alternative facts' its more important then ever to.
> 
> Being a mother to two 'youths' myself, I feel for ALL the children, the young men, all of them - the adults too. I would hope people would spare some compassion if my boys were ever in such terrible plight.


and not being a mother means you don't have compassion for children ? you might not mean to but it implies that . Its sounds like something Angela Leadson would say .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> and not being a mother means you don't have compassion for children ? you might not mean to but it implies that . Its sounds like something Angela Leadson would say .


Gosh, no, not at all. But its clear a lot of people don't feel much empathy for youths caught up in the refugee crisis, I just picture my own boys out there - desperate.

Right wing politicians & rags like the Sun are responsible for dehumanising parents & non parents alike to all refugees.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> That's a good question.


It is a good question. Maybe they were easier to verify because they had memory of who they were from before going through such a dreadful ordeal. Maybe the authorities took advice from experts on the ground.

This thread is reminding me of a Jeeves and Wooster episode where Bertie is advised to stage the rescue of a child to impress a girl. Jeeves makes the point that to elicit maximum sympathy the child should be young, female and if possible blonde. Seems P G Wodehouse knew his countrymen only too well


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

What a lovely man Gary Lineker is.

*Gary Lineker* ‏@GaryLineker
I will continue to speak up for refugees and immigrants and British values of tolerance and free speech. 
I won't be bullied by them.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Being sympathetic or not , it doesn't change anything , does it .
I don't know how many child refugees there are in the whole world but It must be a very high number and is it really possible to take them all in ?
Sadly , If not then perhaps you have to be hard headed and prioritise , who is the most danger , who are easiest ones to find foster homes for , who has relatives in the UK . etc


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

3dogs2cats said:


> keeping you hairy faced buggers at school.


The 25-year-old men will look cute in school uniform.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> Being sympathetic or not , it doesn't change anything , does it .
> I don't know how many child refugees there are in the whole world but It must be a very high number and is it really possible to take them all in ?
> Sadly , If not then perhaps you have to be hard headed and prioritise , who is the most danger , who are easiest ones to find foster homes for , who has relatives in the UK . etc


But the government are taking ANYMORE dubs children. This is why some of us are so disgusted.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@noushka05 you said


> But the government are taking ANYMORE dubs children. This is why some of us are so disgusted.


Yes i know and that is disgusting , but unless I'm mistaken , you seem angry at PF members about their attitude to older child refugees and lack of sympathy towards them and Im trying to say , that their attitude doesn't make any difference , we can all be as sympathetic as hell and we still cant save every child . 
Havoc also made the point and quoted Wodehouse "to elicit maximum sympathy the child should be young, female and if possible blonde "
but who would be in the most danger a young man of 17 or a girl of 8 , sounds like Sophie's choice 

Yes I sincerely hope the Government will change their minds because its shaming us.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MilleD said:


> I'm also not naïve.


Absolutely .


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> Havoc also made the point and quoted Wodehouse "to elicit maximum sympathy the child should be young, female and if possible blonde "
> but who would be in the most danger a young man of 17 or a girl of 8 , sounds like Sophie's choice


It's a dreadful choice, it's a miserable decision. That doesn't for me mean if we can't save all then we shouldn't save any. It is though interesting that much of the opposition is directed to gender as well as age. Same number of sweet young girls would cost us the same if not more but it seems would be acceptable.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> @noushka05 you said
> 
> Yes i know and that is disgusting , but unless I'm mistaken , you seem angry at PF members about their attitude to older child refugees and lack of sympathy towards them and Im trying to say , that their attitude doesn't make any difference , we can all be as sympathetic as hell and we still cant save every child .
> Havoc also made the point and quoted Wodehouse "to elicit maximum sympathy the child should be young, female and if possible blonde "
> ...


What I really don't understand is why are some people directing their anger towards these poor desperate boys, when its the Home Office who makes the decision who to allow in??

Of course I'd prefer the youngest most vulnerable children were brought in first, but I would make any refugee welcome whatever their age. But the hate mongers have got their own way now. Non of them are being accepted.

I totally agree with your last sentence x


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@noushka05 I got the feeling they were directing their anger at men in their twenties who were pretending to be children .

It seems Madonna is doing her bit to help, she has adopted orphaned twins from Malawi .


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

*We did not come to England because of your free money or your free houses or your free health care. We come to England because Jeremy Kyle have TV show where men have many more girlfriends than teeth. *
_*Maybe you can see us come on your ITV soon. *_​
_







_​


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> What a lovely man Gary Lineker is.
> 
> *Gary Lineker* ‏@GaryLineker
> I will continue to speak up for refugees and immigrants and British values of tolerance and free speech.
> I won't be bullied by them.


Who bullied Gary Lineker FFS?

Also just because they are withdrawing from this agreement doesn't mean we won't take in any more children, I have no doubt we will but not at predetermined numbers and time scales. We shouldn't take any unless we have safe homes for them to go to which given the number of children we already have in care seems unlikely unless they have family here already.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> Yes i know and that is disgusting , but unless I'm mistaken , you seem angry at PF members about their attitude to older child refugees and lack of sympathy towards them and Im trying to say , that their attitude doesn't make any difference , we can all be as sympathetic as hell and we still cant save every child .
> Havoc also made the point and quoted Wodehouse "to elicit maximum sympathy the child should be young, female and if possible blonde "
> but who would be in the most danger a young man of 17 or a girl of 8 , sounds like Sophie's choice
> 
> Yes I sincerely hope the Government will change their minds because its shaming us.


They haven't stopped taking in children, they are just not going through this scheme which has encouraged people trafficking and refugees still trying to get to Calais


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Creativecat said:


> Tht is the point stock well cat said as
> My daughter was in school with so called children tht needed a shave . How can tht be right .


So should my cousin have been thrown out of school when he needed to shave? Should my own pupils be chucked out of school when they need to shave? Or is puberty only acceptable in females?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@rona That's good .

Getting back to fostering refugees , I hate to say this but if I had young children , I think I would be wary of fostering older children whether refugees or not , if you dont know their back ground you could put your children at risk . 
Also , people might find it harder to deal with adolescents perhaps , I found it hard , when a child goes off the rails , its so hard to get them back on track . That sounds selfish I know ,Im not suggesting that all adolescents and refugees might be like this but there will be people who foster and mean well but it could end up a nightmare for them .


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> but there will be people who foster and mean well but it could end up a nightmare for them .


Through same friends mentioned earlier I can absolutely guarantee it doesn't need to be a refugee for that to happen. White, British, British born savvy fourteen year old females know exactly which buttons to push when they don't get their own way.

ETA - a number of fosters of refugees caused no problems - not saying they were easy but people don't foster because it's easy. Little madam with a history of accusations of sex abuse (hidden from potential foster families) caused utter misery and loss of job.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@havoc yes of course , I agree . I did say that in my post "I think I would be wary of fostering older children whether refugees or not , " and 
"Im not suggesting that all adolescents and refugees might be like this "


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I hanged out with travellers , but it was my choice, for many of them it was escape from brutal childhood.
But we spoke the language and knew the country.
I worked for years with vulnerable adolescents.
I have two at home. One shaves his face , the other her legs. 
Both far too innocent to cope alone.

I can imagine how hard it is to be in their position.

I remember my friends trying to cope on their own when were arrested, but they had friends and relatives.
Could communicate. Had homes to go to.
3000 kids...What would it be?
Fifty pence less a year from your pocket? Price of a KitKat?
Other countries do much, much more.
Or we want to join Trump?
Ban on refugees?

Because maybe few young adults might sneak in?

Scrap Trump's visit and with that money save the children.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> @noushka05 I got the feeling they were directing their anger at men in their twenties who were pretending to be children .
> 
> It seems Madonna is doing her bit to help, she has adopted orphaned twins from Malawi .


less said about publicity adoptions the better, imho
seems she adopts a new one [or two in this instance] every time one of the older ones hits puberty
she cant even keep her own birth children in order, so why allow her to adopt more
oh I know
she has the money to throw at them, in the form of 'donations', to make sure she gets what she wants
fine if she wants to appear Our Lady Madonna- like, gathering the children unto her
but
surely it would be better to support the father and siblings and keep the girls in their own culture and family

wonder if The Donald will let them in, especially as she was so outspoken in her antipathy towards him and wants to bomb the Whitehouse - where a 10yr old could be living, obviously in her eyes not all children are created equal


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

mrs phas said:


> seems she adopts a new one [or two in this instance] every time one of the older ones hits puberty


Have to agree I am bemused by this celebrity fashion for collecting children.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> I'm I right in guessing you're not a mother? The reason there are disproportionately more boys is their parents send them away to save them from being forced to fight.





noushka05 said:


> I try to fact check most things - I think in this era of 'alternative facts' its more important then ever to.
> 
> Being a mother to two 'youths' myself, I feel for ALL the children, the young men, all of them - the adults too. I would hope people would spare some compassion if my boys were ever in such terrible plight.


@noushka05 I agree with many things that you write but this is unfair and poorly worded. Mothers do not have more rights over love or compassion than those who are not and you should know that from my posts on this subject. I realise you've apologised to @MilleD but I find posts like this from _anyone_ on PF abhorrent and upsetting. MillieD hope you're alright chuck.

In genreal to the thread... this awful news has me in tears very often. I'd take in a child from any country in a heartbeat but the complex adoption system, fostering process and general emotional horror that this entails because of bullshit red tape precludes me from even attempting to do that. I think that there is feeling of how easy it is. It's not.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> older boys


@noushka05:...the point several posters are trying to make is that they were not ''older boys'', they were robust and healthy _young men_ quite capable of fathering babies themselves.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> @noushka05 I got the feeling they were directing their anger at men in their twenties who were pretending to be children .
> 
> It seems Madonna is doing her bit to help, she has adopted orphaned twins from Malawi .


See, this is what I still don't understand. The Home Office accepted them on the Dublin scheme. Why blame desperate people even if they are 20+? Its cruel, these people have been through hell. And was it ever confirmed by a credible source that they were men in their twenties anyway?



rottiepointerhouse said:


> Who bullied Gary Lineker FFS?
> 
> Also just because they are withdrawing from this agreement doesn't mean we won't take in any more children, I have no doubt we will but not at predetermined numbers and time scales. We shouldn't take any unless we have safe homes for them to go to which given the number of children we already have in care seems unlikely unless they have family here already.


One of the usual suspects - the Mail, today.

*Gary Lineker* ‏@GaryLineker  10h10 hours ago
I have always paid my taxes on time and in full. The Daily Mail continues its vendetta against me because they don't agree with my views.

1,122 replies4,788 retweets19,801 likes

And it isnt only the Mail. The right wing propaganda rags in general, & a lot of people who support brexit are vile to him because he has a social conscience & isn't afraid to raise his head above the parapet & speak out. You should check out his twitter feed, some of the tweets he gets are abhorrent. They don't like it when he speaks the truth.










So you think they are better off left on the streets & in the camps - alone? These children are in grave danger RPH. The government could make funds available, its a political choice council budgets have been slashed. Why are you so sure we'll take more RPH? This country isn't the same anymore. As Gary says, what is happening to it? 



rona said:


> They haven't stopped taking in children, they are just not going through this scheme which has encouraged people trafficking and refugees still trying to get to Calais


Can you provide references please? Because that makes no sense to me whatsoever. Those unaccompanied children are cold, living in atrocious conditions & are at risk of trafficking now!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MollySmith said:


> @noushka05 I agree with many things that you write but this is unfair and poorly worded. Mothers do not have more rights over love or compassion than those who are not and you should know that from my posts on this subject. I realise you've apologised to @MilleD but I find posts like this from _anyone_ on PF abhorrent and upsetting. MillieD hope you're alright chuck.
> 
> In genreal to the thread... this awful news has me in tears very often. I'd take in a child from any country in a heartbeat but the complex adoption system, fostering process and general emotional horror that this entails because of bullshit red tape precludes me from even attempting to do that. I think that there is feeling of how easy it is. It's not.


I'm really sorry it came across so insensitively. It is poorly worded, all I can do is offer my apologies again to Millie. I know you've been though hell & I'm very sorry for the upset I've caused you as well Molly x


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Thank you @noushka05 that's much appreciated.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

mrs phas said:


> less said about publicity adoptions


@mrs phas: I get the impression she and Angelina Jolie are having a contest to see who can adopt the most.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I think gary should stick to selling crisps and being a pundit presenter . On £1 million bbc contract . It's funny there wasnt a poll tht u could vote on at the begining of this thread seems strange I wonder why


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> there is feeling of how easy it is


@MollySmith: Unless you are a pop singer or Hollywood actress.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

My employer took the unusual step this week of emailing the workforce, worldwide has to be about 10,000 people because the umbrella we're all employed under, the University had been receiving unprecedented levels of racist hate mail directed at students and employees. It's never really happened in this are before so I completely agree, it's not the same country anymore. I'd wonder if that, given a choice and enough knowledge, that anyone would want to come here at all but that what they have left behind is worse.

Thanks to the UK, thousands of children were saved on the kinder transport from Germany and we have so much to learn from the past. It strikes me that many here are selectively remembering the past and forgetting that we were and can still be generous.



noushka05 said:


> See, this is what I still don't understand. The Home Office accepted them on the Dublin scheme. Why blame desperate people even if they are 20+? Its cruel, these people have been through hell. And was it ever confirmed by a credible source that they were men in their twenties anyway?
> 
> One of the usual suspects - the Mail, today.
> 
> ...


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Calvine said:


> @MollySmith: Unless you are a pop singer or Hollywood actress.


I think that also how brave one is though. The criteria is that one has to be past wanting ones own children or to have come to terms with that and it was for this reason and my husband's age we didn't go to full panel. Actually Madonna's age is an interesting one... but I do not know enough about the USA adoption system. Upper age does matter, nobody tells you this. That a friend who was a social worker and cannot have children didn't even embark on the process, speaks volumes.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

Oh wow we've had badger culling in this thread Poland doing there bit on rehousing Ukrainians now angie n madonnas who's next billy piper and smelly bob geldolf . He should reunite himself with a bar of soap


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> forgetting that we were and can still be generous


This country has a proud record of helping genuine refugees.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Creativecat said:


> I think gary should stick to selling crisps and being a pundit presenter . On £1 million bbc contract . It's funny there wasnt a poll tht u could vote on at the begining of this thread seems strange I wonder why


Many famous people when they speak well - which Gary seems to from his tweets I guess he is raising awareness in many demographics. As far as I know he writes and donates to HIV/AIDS, Disadvantaged children, cancer, conservation, disaster relief, fair trade, parenting, homelessness, literacy and refugees. Far better he does that and is responsible than many overpaid footballers who trade on setting up a bad impression for kids who seem to think they are heros. That said he can still do more with his money and give beds and homes!!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> See, this is what I still don't understand. The Home Office accepted them on the Dublin scheme. Why blame desperate people even if they are 20+? Its cruel, these people have been through hell. And was it ever confirmed by a credible source that they were men in their twenties anyway?
> 
> One of the usual suspects - the Mail, today.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I would call that bullying Noush. A lot of us who voted for brexit have to put up with being called names and branded as racists. I am more likely to stick pins in my eyes than check out any "celebrity's" twitter feed.

I didn't say I thought they were better off left on the streets but I don't believe we should bring vulnerable children here unless we have safe places for them to go. Perhaps Mr Lineker can open up his home for a few, along with Mr Geldof, Lily Allen and Charlotte Church - that should make a dent in the numbers. I do believe we will take more children but true vulnerable children not young adult males. I'm more than a little fed up with "Celebrities" who slag off our country - the one they make a very nice living from and rarely offer praise for the good work that is done. Every time there is a disaster somewhere in the world and an appeal is launched the people of this country give generously as they do several times per year for Comic or Sport Relief, Children in Need and several other fund raising events not to mention giving their time as volunteers and helping out in other ways. The people of this country are on the whole decent people who care about others but also don't like being taken for a ride or being preached at by over paid football players.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Calvine said:


> This country has a proud record of helping genuine refugees.


Yes, like the people featured on the Exodus series for one. A programme about the biggest movement of people since WW2. Shame it's not playing as it's great lesson in humanity, in not awarding labels or setting criteria - I recommend it. Genuine is a odd word - very subjective I feel.
http://www.open.edu/openlearn/tv-radio-events/tv/exodus-our-journey-europe


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> Genuine is a odd word


I don't think it's an odd word. They were refugees who fled persecution and brought their families with them. We know quite well that many of the ones who came with the recent influx are from countries which are not war-torn.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Creativecat said:


> Oh wow we've had badger culling in this thread Poland doing there bit on rehousing Ukrainians now angie n madonnas who's next billy piper and smelly bob geldolf . He should reunite himself with a bar of soap


its how a discussion in the real world naturally flows
no one has kicked off, everyone has been respectful and polite and allowed others to have their say
theres even been an apology or two
I could get used to this


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm not sure I would call that bullying Noush. A lot of us who voted for brexit have to put up with being called names and branded as racists. I am more likely to stick pins in my eyes than check out any "celebrity's" twitter feed.
> 
> I didn't say I thought they were better off left on the streets but I don't believe we should bring vulnerable children here unless we have safe places for them to go. Perhaps Mr Lineker can open up his home for a few, along with Mr Geldof, Lily Allen and Charlotte Church - that should make a dent in the numbers. I do believe we will take more children but true vulnerable children not young adult males. I'm more than a little fed up with "Celebrities" who slag off our country - the one they make a very nice living from and rarely offer praise for the good work that is done. Every time there is a disaster somewhere in the world and an appeal is launched the people of this country give generously as they do several times per year for Comic or Sport Relief, Children in Need and several other fund raising events not to mention giving their time as volunteers and helping out in other ways. The people of this country are on the whole decent people who care about others but also don't like being taken for a ride or being preached at by over paid football players.


Sorry but when you said "Who bullied Gary Lineker FFS?" I assumed that meant you wanted to know bullied Gary Linekar & why But don't worry, I get it, its not what you wanted to hear.

We've been taking refugees for decades. The government can provide funding to care for them. They'd certainly be safer here then where they are now, surely you can see that.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Sorry but when you said "Who bullied Gary Lineker FFS?" I assumed that meant you wanted to know bullied Gary Linekar & why But don't worry, I get it, its not what you wanted to hear.
> 
> We've been taking refugees for decades. The government can provide funding to care for them. They'd certainly be safer here then where they are now, surely you can see that.


I did want to know or I wouldn't have asked but that isn't my idea of bullying. I don't think they are safer here unless there are safe places for them to go - you know - children, vulnerable ones, need to go somewhere vetted and approved otherwise they could find themselves in even worse situations.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

I couldn't agree more its been civilised and polite the way things should be thrashed out in a moving thoughtful way . But I'm no nearer understanding why any Arab countries are refusing to resettle any child refugee for any refugee for tht matter . When these country's are some of the wealthiest in the world thts where I think countries should step in and question these governments.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> See, this is what I still don't understand. The Home Office accepted them on the Dublin scheme. Why blame desperate people even if they are 20+? Its cruel, these people have been through hell. And was it ever confirmed by a credible source that they were men in their twenties anyway?


This was discussed in a long thread about the Calais camp , I'm not going through it again . 
Its cruel for the children that are still in hell and still in danger , but because we don't see them in the papers or on the telly , no one sees them , they don't exist .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Creativecat said:


> I think gary should stick to selling crisps and being a pundit presenter . On £1 million bbc contract . It's funny there wasnt a poll tht u could vote on at the begining of this thread seems strange I wonder why


And I hope he carries on courageously standing up for refugees and rebutting the notion that showing empathy towards them is somehow wrong.



MollySmith said:


> My employer took the unusual step this week of emailing the workforce, worldwide has to be about 10,000 people because the umbrella we're all employed under, the University had been receiving unprecedented levels of racist hate mail directed at students and employees. It's never really happened in this are before so I completely agree, it's not the same country anymore. I'd wonder if that, given a choice and enough knowledge, that anyone would want to come here at all but that what they have left behind is worse.
> 
> *Thanks to the UK, thousands of children were saved on the kinder transport from Germany and we have so much to learn from the past. It strikes me that many here are selectively remembering the past and forgetting that we were and can still be generou*s.


And that's despite us being a far poorer nation. I know my Grandparents cared for a Polish boy. My memory is vague so I'm going to have to ask my Dad more about it.



rottiepointerhouse said:


> I did want to know or I wouldn't have asked but that isn't my idea of bullying. I don't think they are safer here unless there are safe places for them to go - you know - children, vulnerable ones, need to go somewhere vetted and approved otherwise they could find themselves in even worse situations.


I think its great to see a highly respected public figure like Gary courageously speaking out. With fascism rearing its ugly head again now is not the time for any of us to remain silent. And that's what the Mail is trying to do. Intimidate him into silence & whip up hate of their minions. They are playing a dangerous game with people lives - as per. It certainly defines bullying to me.

If only our PM had the same decency as Gary.

*Gary Lineker* ‏@*GaryLineker*  Jan 29

Is our Prime Minister really not going to speak out against this abhorrent policy across the pond?
3,639 retweets 10,259 likes

I suspect they would go into care & potential fosterers or adoptees would be scrutinised just like they are for any child. Whatever you choose to believe, they _are_ safer here. Please have a read at all of this article. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-criticism-of-amber-rudd-over-child-refugees

_Theresa May has been criticised by the archbishop of Canterbury and a growing number of Tory MPs over her government's decision to limit a scheme to provide a haven in Britain to unaccompanied refugee children in Europe.

Justin Welby said he was "saddened and shocked" by the decision to limit the Dubs scheme to only 350 children, saying he believed ministers had been "committed to welcoming up to 3,000".

The most senior Church of England cleric said it was "regrettable" to end the scheme when it had helped such a small number. "Jesus commands us to care for the most vulnerable," he added.

He was joined by a string of backbench Conservatives, as well as Labour politicians and relief workers, who said the prime minister should lift the cap on numbers, while local councils made clear they could take more refugees if more money was made available._



Creativecat said:


> I couldn't agree more its been civilised and polite the way things should be thrashed out in a moving thoughtful way . But I'm no nearer understanding why any Arab countries are refusing to resettle any child refugee for any refugee for tht matter . When these country's are some of the wealthiest in the world thts where I think countries should step in and question these governments.


Arab countries like Saudi are despotic regimes. They don't care about human suffering. They have played a major role in creating this refugee crisis (as have we, come to that). But, jfyi, 10 of the worlds poorest countries are hosting half the worlds refugees. Our country is an utter disgrace.














kimthecat said:


> This was discussed in a long thread about the Calais camp , I'm not going through it again .
> Its cruel for the children that are still in hell and still in danger , but because we don't see them in the papers or on the telly , no one sees them , they don't exist .


I seem to remember that thread lol. And I don't remember anyone providing any concrete evidence the accusations about their ages were true.

Well you can certainly see plenty about them in the right wing rags - all negative of course. Much of the rest of the media is pretty hopeless, with the exception of the Guardian. The best way of keeping informed is to follow people & organisations who support refugees. I suspect many people then, would be horrified at their plight & would want us to do all we could to help them


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> This country has a proud record of helping genuine refugees.


It does, but we can't be proud of how we're behaving towards them today. The people we're seeing now fleeing into Europe are genuine refugees as well.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

noushka05 said:


> But they are not treating 8 year olds & 24 year olds as having the same nee,
> 
> Sorry if I offended or upset you in any way, that was never my intention..


No offence taken, I'm more thick skinned than that. Thanks for the apology.



noushka05 said:


> I'm not naive either. There are thousands of vulnerable children out there, trying to survive on their own. Turning our backs on them is absolutely shameful.


There are and it is, but these are not the 'children' that are being bought over. You can argue as much as you like, but when I heard that unaccompanied asylum seekers were to be bought here I thought they would be children. And whilst some of them are (I see the data from my own LA), some appear to not be what they claim. And I think _that's_ shameful - to take the place of a genuine child who needs help.


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

To say this country is an utter discrace is a bit inflammatory and disrespectful tbh. I know this country isn't without its faults but it can't be tht bad for everyone and there mother drowning and travelling thousands of miles to benefit from our generousity wanting to live here I think tht in itself speaks volumes


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MilleD said:


> No offence taken, I'm more thick skinned than that. Thanks for the apology.
> 
> There are and it is, but these are not the 'children' that are being bought over. You can argue as much as you like, but when I heard that unaccompanied asylum seekers were to be bought here I thought they would be children. And whilst some of them are (I see the data from my own LA), some appear to not be what they claim. And I think _that's_ shameful - to take the place of a genuine child who needs help.


I really appreciate your words, thank you.

The point is, its the home office that decides who to allow in. They allowed older boys in under the Dublin amendment. That isn't the boys fault.

Please have a look at this short video, it goes some way to explaining the procedures these children have to go through to be accepted here.








Creativecat said:


> To say this country is an utter discrace is a bit inflammatory and disrespectful tbh. I know this country isn't without its faults but it can't be tht bad for everyone and there mother drowning and travelling thousands of miles to benefit from our generousity wanting to live here I think tht in itself speaks volumes


You're just parroting right wing propaganda.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

We shouldnt go back on our promise.

Latest news

http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/10/gover...rack-on-vow-to-accept-child-refugees-6439123/

Campaigners are mounting a High Court challenge against the Government over the number of unaccompanied child refugees accepted into the UK under the Dubs scheme.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> Latest news
> 
> http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/10/gover...rack-on-vow-to-accept-child-refugees-6439123/
> 
> Campaigners are mounting a High Court challenge against the Government over the number of unaccompanied child refugees accepted into the UK under the Dubs scheme.


I saw this on the news this morning. I personally don't think the court case will stand because the UK court system is not allowed to interfere with politics. It was a political decision that allowed the dubs Amendment and it was a political decision that ended the dubs Agreement.

We shall see later on if I am wrong or not.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

MilleD said:


> And whilst some of them are (I see the data from my own LA), some appear to not be what they claim. And I think _that's_ shameful - to take the place of a genuine child who needs help.


I've never been in the situation of trying to survive but I doubt I'd say no to help if I had. Now if someone said to me 'you can have this or I can give it to someone younger' I'd possibly give up that chance of help but I'm pretty sure that's not how it's happening.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

facts about kinder transport.

10,000 saved but there were drawbacks that we can learn from

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-kindertransport

Many Uk children were evacuated from cities , people were forced to take them .

Its difficult to prove age of children -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-january-to-march-2016/asylum

*Age disputes*
Some asylum applicants claim to be children but there may be doubts as to whether this is in fact the case. In the year ending March 2016, 954 asylum applicants had their age disputed and 843 were recorded as having an age assessment. Of those who completed age assessments in the year ending March 2016, 69% were assessed to be over 18, despite claiming to be a child when the age dispute was raised.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> I saw this on the news this morning. I personally don't think the court case will stand because the UK court system is not allowed to interfere with politics. It was a political decision that allowed the dubs Amendment and it was a political decision that ended the dubs Agreement.
> 
> We shall see later on if I am wrong or not.


I hope it can be over turned. if I make a promise I do my utmost to stick to it , that's what makes me English/ British .


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## Creativecat (Dec 20, 2016)

How the hell am I parroting as you call it right wing propergander. I'm being honest . However u find it hard to digest . There's two sides to every argument but you don't like it when you get questioned you brush things under the carpet . And dismiss it . Shame on you. It's clear u have ur own agenda and I respect tht . But plz try and afford others there opinion also


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> f I make a promise I do my utmost to stick to it , that's what makes me English/ British


The times they are a changing and I think you may have to rethink your beliefs on British values.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@havoc yes , one value could be we shouldn't make promises we cant keep . All the people offering homes for refugees , how many actually have kept that promise ? Any stats on that ?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Same old arguement again, I see.  :Yawn

I have a genuine question, especially towards those who are .... shall we say ... "in favour" of scrapping the Dubs agreement. 

The Sun takes pictures of physically mature men and declares, "these are not children". What if they have learning difficulties and the mental age of a pre-teen? None of you would know, certainly not from a pic in a paper. If children under the age of 12 can survive the journey after being separated from their families (presumably by following the crowd) then an adult with the mental age of a child can.

Adult refugees are getting in, too, so I don't understand why grown people with mental capacity would need to lie about their ages and claim to be kids.  :Bag


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> Same old arguement again, I see.  :Yawn
> 
> I have a genuine question, especially towards those who are .... shall we say ... "in favour" of scrapping the Dubs agreement.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are asking and saying, but why the UK? They have travelled through numerous countries to get to Calais and Dunkirk, why haven't other countries taken responsibility and looked after them? Alot of these people have no family in the UK and are only drawn here by those that have helped them along there journey like other refugees and I hate to say it, traffickers as well.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stockwellcat said:


> I understand what you are asking and saying, but why the UK? They have travelled through numerous countries to get to Calais and Dunkirk, why haven't other countries taken responsibility and looked after them? Alot of these people have no family in the UK and are only drawn here by those that have helped them along there journey like other refugees and I hate to say it, traffickers as well.


I was under the impression too, @stockwellcat, that you didn't have to risk your life for months crossing several countries, you applied for asylum in the _first safe country you came to. _


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

LinznMilly said:


> Adult refugees are getting in, too, so I don't understand why grown people with mental capacity would need to lie about their ages and claim to be kids.  :Bag


I'm not sure how many adults were allowed in from the calais camp , very few I imagine . If its an adult refugee's preference to come to the Uk , he has more chance if he pretends to be a child .

BTW Im not in favour of scrapping the Dubbs agreement unless its replaced with something better .


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

To say the UK should be ashamed of help we give to refugees is pretty low considering some actual facts:

https://fullfact.org/law/us-uk-syrian-refugees/

Not a view shared by all but personally I think economic migrants are completely different from refugees. Yes its appalling for young children to be in Calais but it is France we are talking about not war torn Syria, surely the priority should be there. Even then should young children be dragged across the world away from anything familiar, their own language, culture, peoples or should the focus be on places of safety in their own regions.

From what I have read there are a number of reasons for ending the amendment, its claimed France doesn't like it as it acts as a draw for the traffickers, various councils have said they can offer no further places as they have insufficient money


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

noushka05 said:


>


Not last Saturday but the Saturday before, there was a harrowing piece in the Times magazine about a young Syrian woman who ended up treading water in the Mediterranean after the trawler she was travelling to Europe on was sunk.

She was in the water for four days before she was rescued. Her fiance drowned. She ended up holding on to three young children (none of them were hers; they had been handed to her by desperate parents who knew they were dying). One child drowned before they were rescued; another died shortly after they were pulled from the water.

There were 500 people and 100 children on the boat. They had all paid traffickers $5000 for passage and were sold faulty lifejackets for another $50. Most drowned, some got cut up in the boat's propeller.

It was a difficult story to read.

That lady was Syrian. She had fled Syria for Egypt after soldiers destroyed her father's shop and threatened her with death. She had planned to live in Egypt, until the 2013 coup when Syrians were suddenly no longer welcome there. The boat she was on was sunk by Egyptian thugs.

At no point in the article was the UK mentioned. It was not her intention to get to the UK. She just wanted to get to Europe. Today she lives in Sweden.

I took two things away from this awful story:

1. I am not a parent, but I cannot blame anyone for trying to give their children a better life. So many of the parents in this story just let themselves sink and drown after they realised their children had perished in the waves. I wonder how many cared only about the opportunity to raise their children in a safe place, much as some of us take for granted.

2. Not every boat crossing the Mediterranean contains UK-bound migrants. I'm sure thousands intend to settle, as 'instructed', in one of the other safe countries. The press has a lot to answer for when peddling the assumption that they're all headed straight here. I mean, I'm sure some are. But all?


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Not last Saturday but the Saturday before, there was a harrowing piece in the Times magazine about a young Syrian woman who ended up treading water in the Mediterranean after the trawler she was travelling to Europe on was sunk.
> 
> She was in the water for four days before she was rescued. Her fiance drowned. She ended up holding on to three young children (none of them were hers; they had been handed to her by desperate parents who knew they were dying). One child drowned before they were rescued; another died shortly after they were pulled from the water.
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting this. I really wanted to find a link to Exodus but wasn't able do and frankly I can't force those on this thread who ought to watch it to click on the link (ignorance is bliss to them, less to those affected by them). Your words sum up what Exodus was about. Really people.. genuine.. refugees trying to get to safety anywhere from situations that are our worse and most unimaginable nightmares.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

http://newsthump.com/2017/02/09/man-sitting-in-ae-with-a-cold-insists-nhs-crisis-due-to-immigrants/


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> http://newsthump.com/2017/02/09/man-sitting-in-ae-with-a-cold-insists-nhs-crisis-due-to-immigrants/


If that's Matthews in the photo, then he looks a complete d1ck head anyway!

And that's all I have to say on the matter.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

MollySmith said:


> Thank you for posting this. I really wanted to find a link to Exodus but wasn't able do and frankly I can't force those on this thread who ought to watch it to click on the link (ignorance is bliss to them, less to those affected by them). Your words sum up what Exodus was about. Really people.. genuine.. refugees trying to get to safety anywhere from situations that are our worse and most unimaginable nightmares.


And I truly do not believe anyone on this thread is objecting to help being offered to people in this situation which is why we have already taken in 10,000 Syrian refugees. Out of interest how many refugees do you think we should take given the current crisis we have in the NHS, social care, schools, housing and thousands of children already in our appalling care system . Is this where we think it is appropriate to place vulnerable children from overseas who have the added problem of not speaking the language? Its all very well to say bring more and more people here but where are they going to live? get health care? be educated? get social services help and support? benefits etc etc

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-protection-system/children-in-care/statistics/









There are currently 93,000 children in care in the UK

*Source:* Calculation based on published statistics for looked-after children in England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales for 2015.









Over 60% of children in care are looked after due to abuse and neglect

*Source:* Calculation based on published statistics for children looked after due to abuse and neglect in England and Wales for 2015.









A small proportion of children in care experience further abuse and neglect whilst in care

*Source: *Biehal, N. et al. (2014) Keeping children safe: allegations concerning the abuse or neglect of children in care: final report.









Children in care are 4 times more likely than their peers to have a mental health difficulty

*Source:* Calculation based on Office of National Statistics data.









Numbers of children in care in the UK have risen steadily in recent years

*Source:* Calculation based on published statistics for looked-after children in England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales for 2010-15.









30% of children who return home are back in care within 5 years

*Source:* Department for Education (DfE) (2013) Data pack: improving permanence for looked after children (PDF).









Children in care 
are less likely 
than their peers 
to do well at school

*Source:* DfE (2014) Outcomes for children looked after by local authorities [in England]









1/3 of all children leaving care return home to their family

*Source*: DfE (2015) Table D1 in National tables: children looked after in England (including adoption and care leavers) year ending 31 March 2015 (xls).









£300 million a year - the cost of failed reunification of children returning home from care.

*Source:* Holmes, L. (2014) Supporting children and families returning home from care: counting the costs.









£56 million a year - the cost of appropriate support and services to families where children are returning home from care.

Source: Holmes, L. (2014) Supporting children and families returning home from care: counting the costs









34% of care leavers were not in education, employment or training at age 19 compared to 15.5% of the general population

*Source:* Comptroller and Auditor General (2014) Children in care (PDF).









Children in care are significantly more likely to have run away than their peers

*Source:* Rees, G. (2011) Still running 3: early findings from our third national survey of young runaways, 2011 (PDF).









An estimated 20 to 35% of sexually exploited children are children in care.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> And I truly do not believe anyone on this thread is objecting to help being offered to people in this situation which is why we have already taken in 10,000 Syrian refugees. Out of interest how many refugees do you think we should take given the current crisis we have in the NHS, social care, schools, housing and thousands of children already in our appalling care system . Is this where we think it is appropriate to place vulnerable children from overseas who have the added problem of not speaking the language? Its all very well to say bring more and more people here but where are they going to live? get health care? be educated? get social services help and support? benefits etc etc
> 
> https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-protection-system/children-in-care/statistics/
> 
> ...


But its a political choice the NHS, public services, council budgets, social care are all struggling, RPH. Budgets have been slashed across the board, our NHS deliberately underfunded & privatised. This is the governments ideological mission to shrink the state. Now its shamefully being used as an excuse not to help the most vulnerable children & desperate people.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> If that's Matthews in the photo, then he looks a complete d1ck head anyway!
> 
> And that's all I have to say on the matter.


Its a satire piece Zaros There are plenty of real eejits out there of the same mentality.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> But its a political choice the NHS, public services, council budgets, social care are all struggling, RPH. Budgets have been slashed across the board, our NHS deliberately underfunded & privatised. This is the governments ideological mission to shrink the state. Now its shamefully being used as an excuse not to help the most vulnerable children & desperate people.


Whatever the reasons Noush that is the situation in this country - how would it be appropriate to bring in thousands more people who need those services which you yourself are always telling us are at crisis point and about to sink? You can't have it both ways.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Whatever the reasons Noush that is the situation in this country - how would it be appropriate to bring in thousands more people who need those services which you yourself are always telling us are at crisis point and about to sink? You can't have it both ways.


I don't even understand your logic. The government _could _fully fund all these areas if they chose to do so. We should be standing up to their destructive polices, not being apologists for them imo. As Tony Benn once said ---


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Disabled child refugees entry to UK through resettlement scheme suspended by Home Office.*

*Move condemned as 'marking new low' in Government's handling of crisis*

*http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-unhcr-united-nations-lord-dubs-a7571451.html

How anyone can feel proud of what this country is becoming, is beyond me*


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Its a satire piece Zaros There are plenty of real eejits out there of the same mentality.


Perhaps I should read a link in its entirety instead of the first few lines before passing my opinion in future.:Sorry

Ah well, we live and learn.

And I've learned that I could break into a villager's house steal his valuables and get away with it because the Police like to blame it on immigrants.

Sh1T!

That's me!:Facepalm


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> I don't even understand your logic. The government _could _fully fund all these areas if they chose to do so. We should be standing up to their destructive polices, not being apologists for them imo. As Tony Benn once said ---


That is to be expected as I rarely understand yours either 

My logic is that whilst you might live in cloud cuckoo land/communism where all men are equal but some are more equal than others, in the real world, live is tough, we are all under pressure and being squeezed as are our public services. We do not have the wriggle room to take in unlimited migrants who will put extra pressures on those services, I am not saying they are the cause of those pressures before you throw more memes at me, just that we do not have the capacity in our NHS, social care, housing and education to add more demand and those vulnerable children should only be brought here if there are guarantee safe places for them to go so they do not end up in our care system which as you will see from the NSPCC link is seriously flawed.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> That is to be expected as I rarely understand yours either
> 
> My logic is that whilst you might live in cloud cuckoo land/communism where all men are equal but some are more equal than others, in the real world, live is tough, we are all under pressure and being squeezed as are our public services. We do not have the wriggle room to take in unlimited migrants who will put extra pressures on those services, I am not saying they are the cause of those pressures before you throw more memes at me, just that we do not have the capacity in our NHS, social care, housing and education to add more demand and those vulnerable children should only be brought here if there are guarantee safe places for them to go so they do not end up in our care system which as you will see from the NSPCC link is seriously flawed.


I'm not a communist Social democracy is poles apart from communism, there is nothing extreme in wanting a fair & just society that works for all. You think I dont know life is tough? I live in a deprived area where many people are now living hand to mouth. Depending on food banks to survive. We're not all under pressure at all. The wealth of the richest has doubled under the tories. Hitting the poorest with austerity whilst giving tax breaks for the wealthy & corporations has created gross inequality in this country. Homelessness & child poverty are through the roof! The ONLY reason the NHS is facing the greatest crisis in its history is because the tories are deliberately destroying it. Public services & social care budgets deliberately slashed.by the tories! These are all their political choices. We were told we had to tighten our belts, austerity was a necessity, yet we now have far more debt now then we had in 2010 & we're still in deficit!.

Where has all that money gone RPH?? 

We aren't looking after refugee children OR our own children anymore ............


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Latest from the High Court:
*High court to hear legal challenge over end of Dubs scheme in May*

A high court challenge to Amber Rudd's decision to close the Dubs scheme for lone child refugees after resettling only 350 from Europe is to be heard in early May.

*Mr Justice Holman pencilled in 2-4 May *for a full hearing of the case, saying he was "very, very determined" the case should move forward as fast as it reasonably could.

*"There is a huge political dimension to this. It is extremely important to establish as soon as reasonably practical whether the number specified is or is not lawful," *he told a preliminary hearing on Friday.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...dubs-scheme-in-may?client=ms-android-motorola

______________

The High Court have to see if the decision was lawful or not, they cannot interfere with politics.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> And I truly do not believe anyone on this thread is objecting to help being offered to people in this situation which is why we have already taken in 10,000 Syrian refugees. Out of interest how many refugees do you think we should take given the current crisis we have in the NHS, social care, schools, housing and thousands of children already in our appalling care system . Is this where we think it is appropriate to place vulnerable children from overseas who have the added problem of not speaking the language? Its all very well to say bring more and more people here but where are they going to live? get health care? be educated? get social services help and support? benefits etc etc
> 
> https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-protection-system/children-in-care/statistics/
> 
> ...


Thanks for the statistics and sources.

I absolutely see your point and also @noushka05's too. You both speak well on this. My observation is that the solution lies in the home countries if they were repaired. An impossible ask on the evidence I've seen of those countries and the political unrest.

As I said earlier on here, I think anyone coming to the UK hoping for stability would be most disappointed and even in the best of times there are consequences. We had the Oakington centre near us and the evidence of neglect was shameful but yes, you're correct there are monetary issues and no pots of gold to fund this.

It makes the UK and the worlds relationship with that diabolical ginger *uc*wit across the pond even more critical if there is to be any breakthrough to stablise the countries at conflict. An even more impossible ask.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Reading what the Courts have said they are only challenging the amount of children that have been let into the UK under the dubs amendment nothing else. The courts are yet to determine if this is lawful or not and cannot interfere with politics. The Dubs Amendment will still end at the end of March 2017. The court hearing is currently scheduled as being 2nd to 4th May 2017 but may be bought forward.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> Perhaps I should read a link in its entirety instead of the first few lines before passing my opinion in future.:Sorry
> 
> Ah well, we live and learn.
> 
> ...


I almost missed this. Lets face it though Zaros, it was an easy mistake to make Immigrants are being scapegoated for everything so its not that far fetched - unfortunately.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Heres a great meme by David Schneider.

*
Nov 2016 Theresa May:

"My Christian faith helps me make difficult decisions". Here are some of her favourite Bible quotes. **#*Dubs


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Vanessa131 said:


> So should my cousin have been thrown out of school when he needed to shave? Should my own pupils be chucked out of school when they need to shave? Or is puberty only acceptable in females?


Well said.



stockwellcat said:


> I understand what you are asking and saying, but why the UK? They have travelled through numerous countries to get to Calais and Dunkirk, why haven't other countries taken responsibility and looked after them? Alot of these people have no family in the UK and are only drawn here by those that have helped them along there journey like other refugees and I hate to say it, traffickers as well.


You're talking like it's only the UK that takes refugees, but we're not!! Germany tops the stats for refugee intake, followed by Italy, France and Greece. We're 5th.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_quarterly_report

Scroll down to Main Destination Countries. Better still, I'll quote:



> *Main destination countries*
> The highest number of first time asylum applicants in the third quarter of 2016 was registered in Germany (with over 237 400 first time applicants, or 66% of total applicants in the EU Member States), followed by Italy (34 600, or 10%), France (20 000, or 6%), Greece (12 400, or 3%) and the United Kingdom (9 200, or 3%). These 5 Member States together account for nearly 90% of all first time applicants in the EU-28 (Table 2).
> 
> Trends in number of asylum applicants vary from country to country in the third quarter of 2016. Germany (with 120 100 more applicants) was the country with the largest absolute increase in the number of first time applicants, followed by Greece (9 500 more) and Italy (6 200 more). In contrast, Hungary, saw its number of asylum seekers falling notably by 104 000 less, while Sweden and Austria have recorded a drop of 37 500 and 19 200 less asylum applicants in the third quarter of 2016 compared with the same quarter of 2015 (Figures 4 and 5).
> ...


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> But its a political choice the NHS, public services, council budgets, social care are all struggling, RPH. Budgets have been slashed across the board, our NHS deliberately underfunded & privatised. This is the governments ideological mission to shrink the state. Now its shamefully being used as an excuse not to help the most vulnerable children & desperate people.


Yes is is a political choice to do that . Its been happening for years . But for whatever reason , it's happened ,its not an excuse, We can't magic up resources .


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> Yes is is a political choice to do that . Its been happening for years . But for whatever reason , it's happened ,its not an excuse, We can't magic up resources .


Well actually the government can find billions when it wants to. It can afford to give massive tax breaks when it suits. Austerity was a big fat con to shift public money into private pockets. Now look at the state this country is in? Look at the suffering. The equality. And we're in more debt then ever!


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> I almost missed this. Lets face it though Zaros, it was an easy mistake to make * Immigrants are being scapegoated for everything* so its not that far fetched - *unfortunately*.


I know. It's bloody awful isn't it.

But, you know, when you completely fail to achieve your goals, why not blame someone else.

The only thing I have against immigrants is that they gave our Oscar Hip Dysplasia. Rotten 845t4rd5!


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

MollySmith said:


> It makes the UK and the worlds relationship with that diabolical ginger *uc*wit across the pond even more critical if there is to be any breakthrough to stablise the countries at conflict. An even more impossible ask.


Ain't that the truth. The idea that we are going to have to pull up the drawbridge or learn to share is so very true in a shrinking world with more and more problems and opinion becomes ever more polarised on which to do. The drawbridge route is dangerous but ever more likely.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@noushka05 Sure but how long will it take to build the houses and hospitals and schools ? Should we build camps in the mean time to house them? 
Foster homes , can you magic enough up ? Perhaps you can if you offer enough money .
How many refugees should we take ? I asked this before but nobody seems to know . What is the plan ? Look at the chaos of Brexit because there was no plan,

ETA Im not saying we shouldn't take refugees . In the calais camp thread I said we should take refugees in camps from Syria , or ones in immediate danger , fleeing isis or bombing in Aleppo,
The Christians fleeing up mountains with nothing but the clothes they stood in .


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> I'm not a communist Social democracy is poles apart from communism, there is nothing extreme in wanting a fair & just society that works for all. You think I dont know life is tough? I live in a deprived area where many people are now living hand to mouth. Depending on food banks to survive. We're not all under pressure at all. The wealth of the richest has doubled under the tories. Hitting the poorest with austerity whilst giving tax breaks for the wealthy & corporations has created gross inequality in this country. Homelessness & child poverty are through the roof! The ONLY reason the NHS is facing the greatest crisis in its history is because the tories are deliberately destroying it. Public services & social care budgets deliberately slashed.by the tories! These are all their political choices. We were told we had to tighten our belts, austerity was a necessity, yet we now have far more debt now then we had in 2010 & we're still in deficit!.
> 
> Where has all that money gone RPH??
> 
> We aren't looking after refugee children OR our own children anymore ............


I didn't call you a communist - I was referring to your mate Mr Benn. I didn't say you don't know life is tough - we've all had no doubt had hard times and witnessed hard times but throwing money at things is not always the solution. You say you live in a deprived area where people are living hand to mouth and depending on food banks and that homelessness/child poverty is through the roof - yet you want to put more vulnerable children into the mix and bring more refugees. So I ask again, how many? where do you want to house them? where are they going to get health care? a social worker? which schools do you think can accommodate them? how are they going to keep themselves in food/clothing and if the children are going to be in care do you seriously think our inadequate care system can offer them a safe and suitable environment?


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Well actually the government can find billions when it wants to. It can afford to give massive tax breaks when it suits. Austerity was a big fat con to shift public money into private pockets. Now look at the state this country is in? Look at the suffering. The equality. And we're in more debt then ever!


And maybe if they cut their spending on this sh1t there'd be money for other things too. Like more research into cancer.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

kimthecat said:


> It seems Madonna is doing her bit to help, she has adopted orphaned twins from Malawi .




This is tongue in cheek . :)

Angelina Jolie wanting her rainbow children , reminds me of when I was a kid and had a list of the breeds of dogs i wanted or what toys I wanted for Christmas. 
I'm not doubting she loves her children but picking and choosing , it seems odd to me .


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I always think of Wayne and Waynetta (Harry Enfield and Kathy Burke) and her desire for a braaan baby


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> @noushka05 Sure but how long will it take to build the houses and hospitals and schools ? Should we build camps in the mean time to house them?
> Foster homes , can you magic enough up ? Perhaps you can if you offer enough money .
> How many refugees should we take ? I asked this before but nobody seems to know . What is the plan ? Look at the chaos of Brexit because there was no plan,
> 
> ...


How about the number they PROMISED to take? 3,000 children really isn't that many spread across the country. I bet Scotland would welcome them all! Tories have cut funding in all areas, they should commit to fully funding them again. We have the money, they choose to spend it on other things. Its as simple as that.



rottiepointerhouse said:


> I didn't call you a communist - I was referring to your mate Mr Benn. I didn't say you don't know life is tough - we've all had no doubt had hard times and witnessed hard times but throwing money at things is not always the solution. You say you live in a deprived area where people are living hand to mouth and depending on food banks and that homelessness/child poverty is through the roof - yet you want to put more vulnerable children into the mix and bring more refugees. So I ask again, how many? where do you want to house them? where are they going to get health care? a social worker? which schools do you think can accommodate them? how are they going to keep themselves in food/clothing and if the children are going to be in care do you seriously think our inadequate care system can offer them a safe and suitable environment?


Tony Benn wasn't a communist either

See above.



Zaros said:


> And maybe if they cut their spending on this sh1t there'd be money for other things too. Like more research into cancer.


Absolutely!

SNPs Mhairi Black nails it!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@havoc I love that series , so funny !

This is OT but just remembered it and think its shocking .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/eastmidlands/series9/week_nine.shtml
*British children deported to Australia*








Hopes and dreams - deported down under
Inside Out follows the story of the children who were deported to Australia in the 1940's, '50s and '60s.

They say the British Government has snubbed them and will be happy to see them die rather than help them.

*Shipped Down Under*

Between 1947 and 1967 up to 10,000 children were shipped to Australia.

They were sent to populate a nation with what was called at the time "good white stock". 
They were also the unwilling contestants in a competition between religious faiths to boost their numbers.

Parents weren't told the truth.

Their children lost their real identities and were told they were orphans going on holiday to a place where the sun always shines.

The policy was endorsed by Government of the day.

It was cheaper to send children to Australia than care for them on British soil.

It cost £5 a day to care in the UK but only 10 shillings in Australian institutions.

*Hard labour *

Those who suffered the harshest treatment were the boys sent to Bindoon, an isolated institution north of Perth.

The Catholic Christian Brothers ran it. Children built it.

British children were forced to do hard labour until they were 16-years-old.

Some of them had unimaginable abuse inflicted on them.

The practice continued until 1967 when it was stopped.

It was a Nottinghamshire Social Worker, Margaret Humphreys who uncovered the scandal and the scale of Britain's child migration.

"Tony Blair can find money for wars but he can't find money to help former child migrants be reunited with their loved ones".
John Hennessey, former child migrant
Twenty years ago she established the Child Migrants Trust, a charity which helps to reunite and support long lost families.

It's a charity which values its independence from the agencies which sent the children away.

Yet proper funding has been infrequent over the years.

Only the early and continued intervention of Nottinghamshire County Council has kept the Trust going.

The Child Migrants Trust now has bases in two Australian cities and gets Government funding towards its costs.

But the funding was cut by a third last year and again for the next financial year.

This has been a huge setback for the organisation.

*Sense of loss*

Not all the children deported to Australia after World War Two experienced abuse.

A few have done well for themselves.









The child migrants were put to work
Many more struggled after suffering the loss of their childhood and any sense of family.

In the worst cases the children are dead or in institutions.

What MPs found out shocked them.

After the Health Committee report, the Government announced a £1 million travel fund, to be spent over three years.

The money was only for former migrants to make one visit home if close members of their original families were still alive.

It paid for 300 reunions.

But now there's nothing to keep families together or help former migrants visit graves.

*Shameful past*

Norman Johnston from the International Association of former Child Migrants says the British Government travel fund should only have been a start, and a failure to right the wrongs of the past is shameful.









Opening the door to child migrant support


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> How about the number they PROMISED to take? 3,000 children really isn't that many spread across the country. I bet Scotland would welcome them all! Tories have cut funding in all areas, they should commit to fully funding them again. We have the money, they choose to spend it on other things. Its as simple as that.


Yes absolutely . i have said that from the start but you have been talking about refugees in general and how shocking that we take so few in . I hope we can take more in .
My post to you was in response to your post * ( below ) about the fact the government has money to spend on facilities etc and I asked questions about the practicalities and you have answered them nor anyone else yet.

I'm just saying what is the plan ?

* Noush said "Well actually the government can find billions when it wants to. It can afford to give massive tax breaks when it suits. Austerity was a big fat con to shift public money into private pockets. Now look at the state this country is in? Look at the suffering. The equality. And we're in more debt then ever! "


----------



## Guest (Feb 10, 2017)

I'm just going to say the same thing I say in similar discussions on this side of the Atlantic.

Funds and resources are not the issue. The *distribution* of funds and resources is the issue. Come on... In the US people regularly pay $5 for a cup of coffee that costs 3 pennies to make. Our government could afford to bail out banks and the auto industry. We're not hurting for cash. The UK is not that much different. The money is there. The resources are there to take care of immigrants, refugees, AND those already in the UK who need help. 

It's how those in power choose to allocate those funds. And how well we the people pressure those in power to allocate them where *we* want them. We can keep believing the lies, or we can choose to demand accountability from those who claim to serve us.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> Yes absolutely . i have said that from the start but you have been talking about refugees in general and how shocking that we take so few in . I hope we can take more in .
> My post to you was in response to your post about the fact the government has money to spend on facilities etc and I asked questions about the practicalities and you have answered them nor anyone else yet.
> 
> I'm just saying what is the plan ?


I personally, think we should take in as many as we possibly can. Take Uganda for example, it is an extremely poor country yet it has _welcomed_ half a million refugees last year alone. We are one of the richest countrys on the planet, Kim.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> I personally, think we should take in as many as we possibly can.


That's a subjective amount though isn't it. Just on this thread we go from zero to hero in the viewpoints though there aren't many on here who sit at either extreme (there are some).


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> I personally, think we should take in as many as we possibly can. Take Uganda for example, it is an extremely poor country yet it has _welcomed_ half a million refugees last year alone. We are one of the richest countrys on the planet, Kim.


So no plan then .

I'll drop this now but just want to say this , I'm one of the least practical and disorganised person I know but even I recognise that we feel with our hearts but in some circumstances we have to think with our heads , you cannot ignore the practicalities , otherwise the refugees will hardly be any better off than the ones living in those refugee camps in Uganda .


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

It is so sad if anyone says. Oh, but they want us to take 3 000, what the world is doing about it?
They cannot go to Ethiopia?
Trump refused any. 
Do we really want to follow that?
People here would go extra mile to save a cat.
Why bot a human? It may cost you the price of one KitKat a year to help those youngsters.
Yes, other countries accepted hundreds of thousands. 
Countries much poorer opened frontiers, opened hospitals and churches to take refugees.

Compassion and kindness.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

.....


ouesi said:


> I'm just going to say the same thing I say in similar discussions on this side of the Atlantic.
> 
> Funds and resources are not the issue. The *distribution* of funds and resources is the issue. Come on... In the US people regularly pay $5 for a cup of coffee that costs 3 pennies to make. Our government could afford to bail out banks and the auto industry. We're not hurting for cash. The UK is not that much different. The money is there. The resources are there to take care of immigrants, refugees, AND those already in the UK who need help.
> 
> It's how those in power choose to allocate those funds. And how well we the people pressure those in power to allocate them where *we* want them. We can keep believing the lies, or we can choose to demand accountability from those who claim to serve us.


Actually, the money is not there. The resources are not there. It surely cannot have escaped your attention that both countries you refer to have current account deficits? So, by definition, you are wrong.

As to how the funds are distributed, we DO demand accountability and we do get it. The UK has elected a Tory government in two successive general elections and they are doing a magnificent job at righting the economy. In real life, electors are generally happy with the priority calls being made. Thankfully voters in the U.S. have finally kicked the lefties out too. Democracy is pressure enough.

Could we raise more tax revenues to p1ss away? Sure we could. But we shouldn't. It's typical of socialists to want to spend other people's money but the people have spoken and, thank heavens, we have grown-ups in charge nowadays.

(Btw, you know that the notion of a $5 retail coffee with a cost price of 3 pennies is out-and-out lies of course. If your argument had any credibility in the first place it would be lost right there.)
.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

MollySmith said:


> Thanks for the statistics and sources.
> 
> I absolutely see your point and also @noushka05's too. You both speak well on this. My observation is that the solution lies in the home countries if they were repaired. An impossible ask on the evidence I've seen of those countries and the political unrest.
> 
> ...


Wait, is he ginger? I thought he had a weird blond thing going on!

If he's ginger then I might need to dye my hair, I don't want to be mistaken for him. This is a real problem.

In all seriousness, I too see the points of both @rottiepointerhouse and @noushka05. I am very pro-immigration overall, but it has to be recognised that resources are under strain. I suspect much of the population control issues stem from the increasing number of elderly people in the country as life expectancy increases; but there isn't much to be done about that except wait for the upcoming generation to eat itself into an early, sugary grave and redress the balance.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Wait, is he ginger? I thought he had a weird blond thing going on!
> 
> If he's ginger then I might need to dye my hair, I don't want to be mistaken for him. This is a real problem.


My OH is ginger or rather he was , his hair is darker now he's older .

I wonder if in the future , older people will be offered free tickets to Dignitas. :Jawdrop
I'm just over 60 and if I was facing a life with dementia or a long illness, would I d take that ticket?
Maybe I would . A slippery slope , perhaps .


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

havoc said:


> That's a subjective amount though isn't it. Just on this thread we go from zero to hero in the viewpoints though there aren't many on here who sit at either extreme (there are some).


Yes, of course its subjective, and what I'd like is irrelevant. What I don't understand is how some seem to be excusing the government for reneging on their promise to take those children.



kimthecat said:


> So no plan then .
> 
> I'll drop this now but just want to say this , I'm one of the least practical and disorganised person I know but even I recognise that we feel with our hearts but in some circumstances we have to think with our heads , you cannot ignore the practicalities , otherwise the refugees will hardly be any better off than the ones living in those refugee camps in Uganda .


Of course I don't have a plan. I'm not an expert - I leave plans to people who are lol. There are people out there who deal with helping refugees all the time, they know what they are doing, that's all that matters.

The point is, this government reneged on their promise to take 3,000 vulnerable children. Which I'm sure most right minded people will agree is absolutely despicable.

Have you read this account? I don't know how anyone could think children are better off living like this then they would be here. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-theresa-may-deception-cruel-people-smugglers

*I work with child refugees in Calais. Theresa May's deception is a cruel act*

The Dubs children abandoned by Britain now sleep under bushes, at the mercy of people smugglers and riot police. This is how we care for their best interests.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> The point is, this government reneged on their promise to take 3,000 vulnerable children. Which I'm sure most right minded people will agree is absolutely despicable.


I know ! If that's the point then stick to it . 

if you're going to talk about other refugees coming here or ones in Uganda etc then expect responses to those points .



> Of course I don't have a plan. I'm not an expert - I leave plans to people who are lol. There are people out there who deal with helping refugees all the time, they know what they are doing, that's all that matters.


So who are the experts and what are there plans . You're arguing that we should take more refugees and that we would be be able to take them easily . you must have checked with experts before you said that , That would be great if that can be done.

ETA Afghan interpreters and their families should be allowed to settle here . They risked their lives and now refused entry . Some have been murdered .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> I know ! If that's the point then stick to it .
> 
> if you're going to talk about other refugees coming here or ones in Uganda etc then expect responses to those points .
> 
> So who are the experts and what are there plans . You're arguing that we should take more refugees and that we would be be able to take them easily . you must have checked with experts before you said that , That would be great if that can be done.


Don't you think there's already protocal in place for assisting refugees? It can be done with funding. The tories have slashed council budgets to breaking point then used it as an excuse not to take these children. >>https://www.theguardian.com/society...cuts-social-care-bills?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Don't you think they should fund councils properly? This hollowing out of council budgets is having a devastating impact on public services & social care too. Or do we go on making excuses for the government?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

"Here's Theresa May celebrating Sir Nicholas Winton who rescued 669 child refugees in 1939.

Now we know that she'd have turned them away."


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Wait, is he ginger? I thought he had a weird blond thing going on!
> 
> If he's ginger then I might need to dye my hair, I don't want to be mistaken for him. This is a real problem.
> 
> In all seriousness, I too see the points of both @rottiepointerhouse and @noushka05. I am very pro-immigration overall, but it has to be recognised that resources are under strain. I suspect much of the population control issues stem from the increasing number of elderly people in the country as life expectancy increases; but there isn't much to be done about that except wait for the upcoming generation to eat itself into an early, sugary grave and redress the balance.





kimthecat said:


> My OH is ginger or rather he was , his hair is darker now he's older .
> 
> I wonder if in the future , older people will be offered free tickets to Dignitas. :Jawdrop
> I'm just over 60 and if I was facing a life with dementia or a long illness, would I d take that ticket?
> Maybe I would . A slippery slope , perhaps .


I'll be honest I spend very little time watching him - I'm banned from the news on the telly as I'm in danger of upsetting Molly dog  Blondish ginger which...errrmmmm is my hair.

And in a more serious note then my worry is ageing without children. Not that I think kids should look after parents but I do worry a lot that I have no nieces or nephews either, nobody to keep an eye on me. Dignitas is something I ponder. And my will.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

havoc said:


> Ain't that the truth. The idea that we are going to have to pull up the drawbridge or learn to share is so very true in a shrinking world with more and more problems and opinion becomes ever more polarised on which to do. The drawbridge route is dangerous but ever more likely.


Yes I know, it feels like the world was such an open place - I am old enough to remember some dark days under different governments of different political parties - well Labour and Conservative and I do not think that I've felt such polarised attitudes as I do now. Drawbridge is a great analogy and a sadly accurate one.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> How about the number they PROMISED to take? 3,000 children really isn't that many spread across the country. I bet Scotland would welcome them all! Tories have cut funding in all areas, they should commit to fully funding them again. We have the money, they choose to spend it on other things. Its as simple as that.
> 
> Tony Benn wasn't a communist either
> 
> ...


No Tony Benn was from the "all men are equal but some are more equal than others" party.

*Mhairi Black: 'I was born. I went to school. I left. I fried a fish. Now I'm an MP*

:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No Tony Benn was from the "all men are equal but some are more equal than others" party.
> 
> *Mhairi Black: 'I was born. I went to school. I left. I fried a fish. Now I'm an MP*
> 
> :Hilarious:Hilarious


......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Caroline Lucas* ‏@CarolineLucas  
What would I say to lone child refugees?

I'm so deeply sorry & profoundly shamed by my Government - Britain can be better than this.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Don't you think there's already protocal in place for assisting refugees? It can be done with funding. The tories have slashed council budgets to breaking point then used it as an excuse not to take these children. >>https://www.theguardian.com/society...cuts-social-care-bills?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
> 
> Don't you think they should fund councils properly? This hollowing out of council budgets is having a devastating impact on public services & social care too. Or do we go on making excuses for the government?


You're answering my questions with questions . Im usually complaining you give too much information .
I only know my local council has to take child refugees that land at our airport.
I assume that the Home office or government consult with the local authorities in each area to see how many can they can take . i.e if they have free homes available which in my area is virtually none or perhaps they put them in private rented houses.

People are constantly asking for stats and experts on this forum yet no one here seems to have answered my questions ,

ETA Ive found something on the BBC about child numbers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36714617

The number of asylum seeking children in the care of English councils has risen 62% in a year.

The largest group are boys aged 16 and 17, coming from countries such as Afghanistan or Eritrea.

A refugee charity says many children are facing "serious shortages" in legal advice to help them make their case to stay.

The Home Office said it had increased funding to cover the costs of care and other support for unaccompanied minors.

Figures released to the BBC England data unit under the Freedom of Information Act reveal at least 104 councils were caring for more unaccompanied minors than they were in 2015.

There were at least 4,156 children seeking asylum without parents or guardians and cared for by 147 councils on 31 March 2016, compared with 2,569 the year before. The figure is likely to be higher as some councils did not have up to date figures and some would only say they had fewer than five such children.

The BBC's findings coincide with a report by the children's charity, Unicef, which has called on the government to do more to help unaccompanied children driven from their homes by conflict.

Unaccompanied minors made up about 8% of all asylum claims in the UK in 2015.

This was on the calais thread, Id forgotten about it .

https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/19075/Unaccompanied-asylum-seekers

*What is the number of young people that come through Heathrow that Hillingdon Council provide a service to?*

In 2010-11, we provided a service to 364 young people coming through Heathrow, of whom 205 claimed asylum.
In 2011-12, Hillingdon provided a service to 241 young people arriving at Heathrow. Of these young people 98 claimed asylum.
In 2012-2013, Hillingdon provided a service to 198 young people arriving at the Airport. Of these 89 claimed asylum.
As at 31 October 2013, Hillingdon have provided a service to 109 young people at the Airport. Of these, 53 have claimed asylum


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> You're answering my questions with questions . Im usually complaining you give too much information .
> I only know my local council has to take child refugees that land at our airport.
> I assume that the Home office or government consult with the local authorities in each area to see how many can they can take . i.e if they have free homes available which in my area is virtually none or perhaps they put them in private rented houses.
> 
> ...


Have you got a reference for your council having to take the child refugees that land at your airport? Because having done a bit of research from what I can gather councils can opt out of taking refugees if they want to. And are doing - http://politics.leics.gov.uk/documents/s123003/FINAL - UASC.pdf

It is regrettable that the consequences, financial and otherwise, of the Scheme have not been thought through by the Home Office; that the voluntary nature of the Scheme was previously not made clear to the County Council; and that the East Midlands Councils response to the Government was not originally as challenging as it could have been. 36. In the light of the difficulties already experienced by the Authority and the financial risks posed to the Authority if it continues to be a part of the Scheme, in particular to the Children and Families Departmental budget which is already under pressure, the Council should disengage from the voluntary National Transfer Scheme until such time as the Government meets the full costs of placement and service provision and also makes adjustments to the scheme to make it practical to operate, or until the Secretary of State makes the Scheme mandatory which she has the power to do under the Immigration Act 2014. It is also noted that other Schemes are being developed by the Government which may result in the Council being asked to receive more young refugees and asylum seekers, again in all probability increasing the cost to the County Council.

More info here - http://www.cypnow.co.uk/cyp/news/20...ject-voluntary-child-refugee-dispersal-scheme

In fact 1 in 4 councils have refused to take refugees -( including Theresa Mays more affluent one!). They too claim its largely because the money the government gives to councils for refugee is insufficient. So now, because the tories have gutted council budgets, councils wont offer help to these children because they are struggling to provide services for everyone!
- https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/new...rvices/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Lord Dubs calculated that 3,000 unaccompanied children would be the UKs fair share to take. Tories slash council budgets then use it as an excuse not to take these poor souls.

Where is the anger towards this awful government??


----------



## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> I personally, think we should take in as many as we possibly can. *Take Uganda for example, it is an extremely poor country yet it has welcomed half a million refugees last year alone*. We are one of the richest countrys on the planet, Kim.


Your choice of Uganda to use as a stick to beat the UK with is interesting.

The human rights in that dictatorship is not something I would welcome or be proud of.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

samuelsmiles said:


> Your choice of Uganda to use as a stick to beat the UK with is interesting.
> 
> The human rights in that dictatorship is not something I would welcome or be proud of.


Quite. What are they there for?
https://ugandaradionetwork.com/story/child-prostitution-in-mbale-worries-authorities-1
*Wandwasi says that more than 20 percent of children living in urban centres in the district are currently involved in commercial sex. The vice is common in the trading centres of Busiu, Bugema, Munkaaga, Nkoma, and Nakaloke, located along the highway often used by long-distance truck drivers.*

http://www.ubos.org/UNHS0910/chapter11_working children.html

More than half of the children aged 5-17 in Uganda were working

Uganda really didn't have much of a choice as they are on the border and 70% of the refugees there are still being fed by the world food programme, supported quite a bit by* us

http://www.wfp.org/funding/year/2015*


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Sue Perkins was talking about this on brilliant Last Leg and I agree. She said that it was *breaking a promise*. And that's just it. A first nation has promised very publicly to do this and has broken that promise. Regardless of our set up now in the Brexit f*ck up, this country made a promise and broke it, that's shameful. Utterly disgusting and make me incredibly sad _again_ to be British.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...er-increasing-pressure-to-restart-dubs-scheme


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> Sue Perkins was talking about this on brilliant Last Leg and I agree. She said that it was *breaking a promise*. And that's just it. A first nation has promised very publicly to do this and has broken that promise. Regardless of our set up now in the Brexit f*ck up, this country made a promise and broke it, that's shameful. Utterly disgusting and make me incredibly sad _again_ to be British.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...er-increasing-pressure-to-restart-dubs-scheme


It's one scheme that created more problems than it solved. As has been linked to here, others are coming in under different criteria.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

MollySmith said:


> Sue Perkins was talking about this on brilliant Last Leg and I agree. She said that it was *breaking a promise*. And that's just it. A first nation has promised very publicly to do this and has broken that promise. Regardless of our set up now in the Brexit f*ck up, this country made a promise and broke it, that's shameful. Utterly disgusting and make me incredibly sad _again_ to be British.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...er-increasing-pressure-to-restart-dubs-scheme


Who is Sue Perkins when shes at home?

I think we've all had to break promises at one time or another haven't we? whether its just breaking a promise to meet up with an old friend or take an elderly relative out because we are sick, or whether we've promised to buy something for someone then not been able to because we've lost our job or had an unexpected outlay, or whether its promising to spend the rest of our lives with someone then realising we can't. Sometimes you have to make hard/tough decisions.

One thing that bothers me about all this internet/social media anguish is what does it actually achieve? how is it making things any better for the refugees? I would respect those celebrities a lot more if they said "OK our government has gone back on its promise to help so we will organise help instead" . Has anyone on this thread made one single suggestion about doing something to help rather than complaining? So here we go to get the ball rolling I'll suggest those of us that can make a donation to one of the appeal funds - here is one of them

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/about-us/emergencies/child-refugee-crisis-appeal

or volunteer

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/get-involved/volunteer


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

So Trump bans refugees...how ling did it take Britain to follow?

Trump, our new role model....

What grieves most is that Britain already accepted the 3000 number, not infinity.
It promised, other countries as well and now breaks that promise.


If someone adopted a dog, then changed their mind and said it is too much bother we would be angry with them?

Agreement was reached and should be honoured.

Would Britain like to be on receiving end?



Swelling numbers of foreigners?
Now that government plans to ease access to visas for Commonwealth?

Oh well...after all.how many people from India may want to come...
Nothing to worry about...;-)


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

But it's still a broken promise. And it's an awfully big one to break, quite like being unable to meet a friend for coffee.

And Sue Perkins is a human being with opinions just like we all have on here. I've actually found the Channel 4 programmes on fake news rather interesting.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

MollySmith said:


> But it's still a broken promise. And it's an awfully big one to break, quite like being unable to meet a friend for coffee.
> 
> And Sue Perkins is a human being with opinions just like we all have on here. I've actually found the Channel 4 programmes on fake news rather interesting.


I was being serious when I asked you who she is - I've never heard of her.

and another one to donate or help

http://www.helprefugees.org.uk/how-to-help/


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I was being serious when I asked you who she is - I've never heard of her.
> 
> and another one to donate or help
> 
> http://www.helprefugees.org.uk/how-to-help/


She's the Sue in 'Mel and Sue' - you know, Bake Off etc. She's a comedienne primarily.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I was being serious when I asked you who she is - I've never heard of her.
> 
> and another one to donate or help
> 
> http://www.helprefugees.org.uk/how-to-help/


Oh sorry! I'm a GBBO nutter (and a lover of Great Pottery Throw Down which I don't think anyone else watches.. anyway). Sue is (was) a presenter on that but I tend to listen to her on radio as well.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I was being serious when I asked you who she is - I've never heard of her.
> 
> and another one to donate or help
> 
> http://www.helprefugees.org.uk/how-to-help/


Z-list "celebrity" and alleged comedienne, former denizen of the Celebrity Big Brother house and stooge/part-host of a reality TV show in which people make bread and cakes competitively. I know; makes you proud doesn't it?

For someone to cite her as some great moral authority is just indicative of their argument having no substance.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> She's the Sue in 'Mel and Sue' - you know, Bake Off etc. She's a comedienne primarily.





MollySmith said:


> Oh sorry! I'm a GBBO nutter (and a lover of Great Pottery Throw Down which I don't think anyone else watches.. anyway). Sue is (was) a presenter on that but I tend to listen to her on radio as well.


Well that explains why I didn't recognise the name - I've never watched Bake off and I whilst I remember Mel and Sue I had no idea what her surname is.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Satori said:


> Z-list "celebrity" and alleged comedienne, former denizen of the Celebrity Big Brother house and stooge/part-host of a reality TV show in which people make bread and cakes competitively. I know; makes you proud doesn't it?
> 
> For someone to cite her as some great moral authority is just indicative of their argument having no substance.


She's on Radio 4 a lot - The News Quiz etc. I didn't actually know she'd been on Celebrity Big Brother as I've never watched an episode of that in my life and never shall.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Well that explains why I didn't recognise the name - I've never watched Bake off and I whilst I remember Mel and Sue I had no idea what her surname is.


I sometimes get them mixed up with Mel and Kim! 

I consider it a respectable error though!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

So another thing that genuinely interests me is what the "Celebs" and people who follow them are saying about the children here

http://blogs.savethechildren.org.uk/2017/02/millions-children-face-famine-threat-somalia/

and here

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/w.../yemen-crisis-please-donate-now-help-children

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/about-us/emergencies/horn-of-africa-food-crisis

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/childreninwar

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/about-us/emergencies/iraq-crisis

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/about-us/emergencies/nigeria-hunger

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/about-us/emergencies/south-sudan

Me thinks its political and that pees me off. Stop tweeting and do something about it.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So another thing that genuinely interests me is what the "Celebs" and people who follow them are saying about the children here
> 
> http://blogs.savethechildren.org.uk/2017/02/millions-children-face-famine-threat-somalia/
> 
> ...


I don't really read celebrity views on such things. Some are almost certainly PR, but I suppose others are just conveying their 'regular people opinions' like we are here.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Maybe the best thing a celeb can do is use their name and influence to raise awareness?

http://www.thehopefoundation.org.uk/thank-you/


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Have you got a reference for your council having to take the child refugees that land at your airport? Because having done a bit of research from what I can gather councils can opt out of taking refugees if they want to. And are doing - http://politics.leics.gov.uk/documents/s123003/FINAL - UASC.pdf
> 
> Lord Dubs calculated that 3,000 unaccompanied children would be the UKs fair share to take. Tories slash council budgets then use it as an excuse not to take these poor souls.


They are still taking in lone children , the info is on their website in my post , Im pleased they are . I assumed they had to as this was once the case . 
if You want it confirmed , you can get it straight from the horse's mouth and give them a ring , the numbers on the website .

The "have to" bit , i didn't mean to make that a main point or make it sound like a complaint , but its proof that while the government might be reneging on their promise, some are councils helping refugees despite the government cutting the funding .



> Where is the anger towards this awful government??


 Where do you mean , on this forum?

I didn't vote this government in , yes , I'm angry at the cuts . I just feel the need don't rave and vent constantly here . Apart from sharing and bonding with other members , what will it achieve ?


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> One thing that bothers me about all this internet/social media anguish is what does it actually achieve? how is it making things any better for the refugees? I would respect those celebrities a lot more if they said "OK our government has gone back on its promise to help so we will organise help instead" . Has anyone on this thread made one single suggestion about doing something to help rather than complaining? So here we go to get the ball rolling I'll suggest those of us that can make a donation to one of the appeal funds - here is one of them
> 
> http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/about-us/emergencies/child-refugee-crisis-appeal
> 
> ...


You took the words straight out of my mouth.

I said this on another thread, the Calais camp one I think but did on another and ask what can we do ?

Even a small donation can help . five pounds sent from your phone can buy a hat and gloves for children in Syrian camps where they have very cold weather and snow ,

ETA it would be worth looking on local council websites as they might have info and suggestions on how to help and local refugee organisation contacts .


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So another thing that genuinely interests me is what the "Celebs" and people who follow them are saying about the children here
> 
> http://blogs.savethechildren.org.uk/2017/02/millions-children-face-famine-threat-somalia/
> 
> ...


Imagine trying to shut people down for speaking about a humanitarian catastrophe? 

When the Sun & its minions demanded the BBC sack him for daring to speak out. This was his response.


✔@GaryLineker

Getting a bit of a spanking today, but things could be worse:
Imagine, just for a second, being a refugee having to flee from your home.

8:22 AM - 21 Oct 2016




528,485 Retweets


70,02470,024 likes

This is an excellent article on the matter.

The Daily Mail's campaign against Gary Lineker is nowhere near the most egregious example of this latent nastiness. Extremist language is increasingly used in the mainstream. Right wingers who have applauded the rise of Trump, defending his more outrageous statements by invoking his rights to say what he likes, are uninterested in engaging in nuanced argument.
*
Those who oppose them are regarded, to borrow a famous Daily Mail phrase, as enemies of the people. For everyone who prizes tolerance, balance and freedom of speech, these are dangerous times indeed.*

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/opinion/daily-mails-campaign-gary-lineker-scare-anyone-cares-free-speech/



Jonescat said:


> Maybe the best thing a celeb can do is use their name and influence to raise awareness?
> 
> http://www.thehopefoundation.org.uk/thank-you/


Lily Allen is very vocal too, she actually went out to camp Calais to see for herself. The flack she gets is absolutely shocking. Celebrities knowingly sticking their heads above the parapet to defend the values of humanity & decency takes guts these days. I have huge respect for them.



kimthecat said:


> They are still taking in lone children , the info is on their website in my post , Im pleased they are . I assumed they had to as this was once the case .
> if You want it confirmed , you can get it straight from the horse's mouth and give them a ring , the numbers on the website .
> 
> The "have to" bit , i didn't mean to make that a main point or make it sound like a complaint , but its proof that while the government might be reneging on their promise, some are councils helping refugees despite the government cutting the funding .
> ...


You post what you like, Kim, I would never wish to shut you down. What I post probably wont acheve anything, but its my right to speak my piece. You don't have to read what I post, you don't have to engage. Just ignore my posts. Its that easy. Very worrying to see so many trying to shut down debate.

The dubs children wont be coming in.



kimthecat said:


> You took the words straight out of my mouth.
> 
> I said this on another thread, the Calais camp one I think but did on another and ask what can we do ?
> 
> ...


How do you know people raising awareness haven't also donated or been out protesting?? Raising awareness is vital if we are going to force the government to U turn.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Jonescat said:


> Maybe the best thing a celeb can do is use their name and influence to raise awareness?
> 
> http://www.thehopefoundation.org.uk/thank-you/


That's it, isn't it? People in general are more likely o be influenced by celebrity than they are by Joe Public. I don't regularly follow any celebrity myself, but I applaud those who stand up for what's right. Gary Linekar has moved up the scale in my esteem. And those who are adopting child refugees - good on them - they're leading by example. PR stunt or not - hardly matters. The message gets across to more people if a celeb says it.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

samuelsmiles said:


> Your choice of Uganda to use as a stick to beat the UK with is interesting.
> 
> The human rights in that dictatorship is not something I would welcome or be proud of.


Well there you go, I feel doubly ashamed now. . A poverty stricken dictatorship is showing more compassion than our super wealthy 'democracy'.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> Well there you go, I feel doubly ashamed now. . A poverty stricken dictatorship is showing more compassion than our super wealthy 'democracy'.


I just question their motives, having such an appalling record for human rights themselves.

'Compassion' would be at the bottom of my list for their motive.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> You post what you like, Kim, I would never wish to shut you down. What I post probably wont acheve anything, but its my right to speak my piece. You don't have to read what I post, you don't have to engage. Just ignore my posts. Its that easy. Very worrying to see so many trying to shut down debate.


 Im sorry I haven't been able to make my point clear to you . I'm really don't think you're trying to shut me down . Any way , you have a hard blood job doing that , I'm a quarter Northern 

You said asked where's the anger , I asked if you meant on here , you can be as angry as you like but you seem to think that because others don't express enough anger to your satisfaction that none of them care .

I agree with you on lot of stuff , I agree that we should take more refugees in but as has been said, the logistics have to be worked out you can't find more homes and foster places just like that without someone else losing out and yes , its the governments fault and its shaming they have gone back on their promise.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Satori said:


> Z-list "celebrity" and alleged comedienne, former denizen of the Celebrity Big Brother house and stooge/part-host of a reality TV show in which people make bread and cakes competitively. I know; makes you proud doesn't it?


Of all the p!ss take programmes cited in the Alan Partridge episode when he's trying to get back in with the BBC I think 'Monkey Tennis' is the only one that hasn't been made.

Mind you, there's always time.


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## samuelsmiles (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm always uncomfortable with celebrities like Lily Allen getting involved in 'causes' like the Calais camp. I have much more respect for the huge number of British charity workers who are modestly and _geniunely _giving their services abroad without seeking the attention that some do. 'Virtue signalling' is a phrase I have just learnt and it seems a common thing at the moment.

I would hope - being as wealthy as she is, and having the time that she does - she will now be quietly helping others in need (without a photographer in tow to record her tears.)


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> Imagine trying to shut people down for speaking about a humanitarian catastrophe?
> 
> When the Sun & its minions demanded the BBC sack him for daring to speak out. This was his response.
> 
> ...


Until you posted it I wouldn't have known any newspaper had it in for Gary Lineker or Lily Allen. Newspapers are far less influential than they were and have far fewer readers than they did years ago. Many have lost over half their readership in recent years and some have closed, social media is far more influential. So why bother tweeting and retweeting and giving a voice to these papers? I see the tweet above was retweeted over 500,000 times, why? What does it actually say? "getting a bit of a spanking but things could be far worse" yes very interesting Gary, and "imagine being a refugee having to flee your home" yes Gary, I'm sure all of us have thought about that but then what, what next? Do you have any wise words to offer or are you just giving us a running commentary?

This is part of the point I'm making, I would have more respect if you came on here tweeting or posting memes asking people to help and pointing them in the direction of things they can do to help. Instead of talking and tweeting about it, why not get together with fellow "ashamed to be British" "outraged" folk and come back and shame the rest of us into helping. Why not even set up a PF group to raise awareness and raise funds or get people knitting?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

samuelsmiles said:


> I'm always uncomfortable with celebrities like Lily Allen getting involved in 'causes' like the Calais camp


@samuelsmles: There were several who announced that they would offer homes to migrants. The vociferous Bob Geldof, for example, said he would house FOUR families in some of his various properties...Yvette Cooper...Nicola Sturgeon...Stan Collymore; all were eager to take in refugees a year ago. They have multiple residences so could easily do so; Angelina and Brad have eight homes, (so think how many they could help out with). To date, there has been no report of any of them doing so (and I am sure they would have a TV crew in tow to film the event, we would never hear the end of it). I believe the Pope took a few and Justin Welby _said _he could manage one family (not sure if that materialised). So yes, I agree with you, if all they are going to do is talk and say what they are going to do (but don't) then tell us what we should be doing then I have to wonder if it's a publicity stunt/ego trip. Like you say, virtue signalling.


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## Pawscrossed (Jul 2, 2013)

I agree with this donating is great but celebs may already donate and raise awareness too. One doesn't preclude other and it still allows opinion, fame doesn't mean they can't still have their own voices.. as demonstrated by the rather wonderful war of words

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/feb/11/jk-rowling-piers-morgan-trump-twitter-spat?CMP=fb_gu

I am against the end of the agreement. As was mentioned, it was lauded as a wonderful solution at the time, up there with Canada and I suspect it's probably legally not allowed. Legal or whatever, these are still human beings with nothing to their name. God knows that must be bloody awful.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

" British" had image of being gentlemanly, honourable and reliable.
People who keep their word once given.

So if we said we can help 3000 child refugees then NOTHING happened to justify breaking that promised.

We really promised help to those children not to EU.

This is about them and them only.
I do not see how Brexit can justify it?

Even if Brexit made us poorer.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Pawscrossed said:


> I agree with this donating is great but celebs may already donate and raise awareness too. One doesn't preclude other and it still allows opinion, fame doesn't mean they can't still have their own voices.. as demonstrated by the rather wonderful war of words
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/feb/11/jk-rowling-piers-morgan-trump-twitter-spat?CMP=fb_gu
> 
> I am against the end of the agreement. As was mentioned, it was lauded as a wonderful solution at the time, up there with Canada and I suspect it's probably legally not allowed. Legal or whatever, these are still human beings with nothing to their name. God knows that must be bloody awful.


I'm absolutely not saying donating and raising awareness precludes having an opinion, everyone has an opinion but opinions don't put food in hungry people's bellies or clothes on their backs or blankets to keep them warm or provide medicines when they are sick. So by all means let Gary and Lily et al have their opinions but they should use their influence to show us what help we can give and how so for instance every time they tweet an opinion why not signpost to a charity actually on the ground helping.

This whole following of celebrities and retweeting what they say has me totally bemused. I caught an interview with Stephen Fry the other day in which he openly stated he can reach a far wider audience by tweeting than newspapers reach and that he doesn't read other people's tweets, he only sends them. Bit of a one sided relationship  Go to one minute on the video.

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/y...04ca3d7a9b808fcef2b6f1da39ce3d32&action=click


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Wish we could see the potential those children have. They can usefully contribute in few years, they could be nurses, teachers, bus drivers and so on.
We have aging society. All they need is support for few years till they find their feet and could contribute to our country.


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## Pawscrossed (Jul 2, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm absolutely not saying donating and raising awareness precludes having an opinion, everyone has an opinion but opinions don't put food in hungry people's bellies or clothes on their backs or blankets to keep them warm or provide medicines when they are sick. So by all means let Gary and Lily et al have their opinions but they should use their influence to show us what help we can give and how so for instance every time they tweet an opinion why not signpost to a charity actually on the ground helping.
> 
> This whole following of celebrities and retweeting what they say has me totally bemused. I caught an interview with Stephen Fry the other day in which he openly stated he can reach a far wider audience by tweeting than newspapers reach and that he doesn't read other people's tweets, he only sends them. Bit of a one sided relationship  Go to one minute on the video.
> 
> https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/y...04ca3d7a9b808fcef2b6f1da39ce3d32&action=click


I barely ever read any tweets I get and I'm not at all famous  There are to many which is why I think Twitter being used as a political platform is wrong and a bit dangerous when it comes to campaigns. 140 characters isn't enough to get a measure of anything and nobody cares about click through links. It's a place to do business networking crap and complain about Great British Bake Off or the world in general and discuss pointlessness with hashtags. However going on telly and saying this sucks and this is why I think that and being prepared to debate that is different in my opinion.

Did anyone else pick out only the words spanking and Gary from @noushka05 post?


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Pawscrossed said:


> Did anyone else pick out only the words spanking and Gary from @noushka05 post?


 He's not the sort of bloke you want to spank !

I get lots of info from Twitter from dog trainers etc , you can put links in the tweet .


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> *Disabled child refugees entry to UK through resettlement scheme suspended by Home Office.*
> 
> *Move condemned as 'marking new low' in Government's handling of crisis*
> 
> ...


Its very emotive Noush and on face value totally heartless - the article I read though said there was a temporary hold because there were insufficient suitable places to look after them.

Do you know the position for disabled in the UK - my niece is severely disabled (both physically & mentally) my sister has looked after her 24/7 for over 30 years, she hasn't had any respite for over 2 years now - no longer qualifies because she doesn't need tube feeding, thats how bad things are.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> Its very emotive Noush and on face value totally heartless - the article I read though said there was a temporary hold because there were insufficient suitable places to look after them.
> 
> Do you know the position for disabled in the UK - my niece is severely disabled (both physically & mentally) my sister has looked after her 24/7 for over 30 years, she hasn't had any respite for over 2 years now - no longer qualifies because she doesn't need tube feeding, thats how bad things are.


Obviously not refugees fault? Neither EU's?
Wasteful, inefficient system?
30 years ago there was no EU?
Wonder what will happen when May slashes corporate tax?
Much less money?
UK is one of the wealthy countries...unemployment at the lowest?
Why then?
But there were money for Iraq war ?
For hundreds of millions from taxpayers money for repair of Queen's properties?
Not to mention bonuses for directors of failing banks, multimillion fortunes of certain infamous Mr Blair...
They do not want you yo look that way...
So lets talk about war in Syria? How the Middle East started to unravel with aftermath of Iraq war...


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> Obviously not refugees fault? Neither EU's?
> Wasteful, inefficient system?
> 30 years ago there was no EU?
> Wonder what will happen when May slashes corporate tax?
> ...


Not sure your point Cheeky - if the UK isn't looking after people already here it would just make the situation worse bringing more. Maybe the country is wealthy but most of the people are not - there are a lot of homeless, lots of people using food banks, disabled and elderly not taken care of, hospitals at breaking point


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> Not sure your point Cheeky - if the UK isn't looking after people already here it would just make the situation worse bringing more. Maybe the country is wealthy but most of the people are not - there are a lot of homeless, lots of people using food banks, disabled and elderly not taken care of, hospitals at breaking point


Maybe this is why?
This money should have been in the budget?
So why people seem to be happy with May promising to slash corporate taxes?









Governments seem to protect the mega rich and then manipulate you to blame those in need.

Do not fall for it.

Plus word given already should not be broken. Especially given to homeless children, often victims of war.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> Im sorry I haven't been able to make my point clear to you . I'm really don't think you're trying to shut me down . Any way , you have a hard blood job doing that , I'm a quarter Northern
> 
> You said asked where's the anger , I asked if you meant on here , you can be as angry as you like but you seem to think that because others don't express enough anger to your satisfaction that none of them care .
> 
> I agree with you on lot of stuff , I agree that we should take more refugees in but as has been said, the logistics have to be worked out you can't find more homes and foster places just like that without someone else losing out and yes , its the governments fault and its shaming they have gone back on their promise.


You don't feel it because I'm not trying to shut you down Hey, maybe its because I'm _100%_ northern that I'm so tenacious when I think I'm in the right 



samuelsmiles said:


> I'm always uncomfortable with celebrities like Lily Allen getting involved in 'causes' like the Calais camp. I have much more respect for the huge number of British charity workers who are modestly and _geniunely _giving their services abroad without seeking the attention that some do. 'Virtue signalling' is a phrase I have just learnt and it seems a common thing at the moment.
> 
> I would hope - being as wealthy as she is, and having the time that she does - she will now be quietly helping others in need (without a photographer in tow to record her tears.)


I think you'll find charities appreciate celebrities who use their platform for good to raise awareness. I only wish more celebrities would follow their example.



rottiepointerhouse said:


> Until you posted it I wouldn't have known any newspaper had it in for Gary Lineker or Lily Allen. Newspapers are far less influential than they were and have far fewer readers than they did years ago. Many have lost over half their readership in recent years and some have closed, social media is far more influential. So why bother tweeting and retweeting and giving a voice to these papers? I see the tweet above was retweeted over 500,000 times, why? What does it actually say? "getting a bit of a spanking but things could be far worse" yes very interesting Gary, and "imagine being a refugee having to flee your home" yes Gary, I'm sure all of us have thought about that but then what, what next? Do you have any wise words to offer or are you just giving us a running commentary?
> 
> This is part of the point I'm making, I would have more respect if you came on here tweeting or posting memes asking people to help and pointing them in the direction of things they can do to help. Instead of talking and tweeting about it, why not get together with fellow "ashamed to be British" "outraged" folk and come back and shame the rest of us into helping. Why not even set up a PF group to raise awareness and raise funds or get people knitting?


The right wing media dominates the press & you only need look on this forum & hear what people are saying on threads like this to see it has a big influence (even though they don't read them:Hilarious). There are people from all political persuasions on twitter. Peddlers of hate such as Katie Hopkins for example. Why was that tweet retweeted a lot? (I didn't think it was retweeted 500,000 times was it?) But it was retweeted a lot because Gary obviously speaks for a lot of people. I use twitter for finding out things & raising awareness . Gary Lineker & Lily Allen weren't even on my radar until I found out they too cared about the things I care about. If they have influence over their fans to do good, what is your problem? I don't get it. If they were speaking out & raising awareness about dog fighting would you feel the same?

The charities helping refugees are on twitter, I follow a lot of them too - they are easy to find & they are *thankful* for caring celebs like Gary Lineker & Lily Allen.








*Refugee Action* ‏@*RefugeeAction* Feb 9

Refugee Action Retweeted Gary Lineker

Thank you @*GaryLineker* for braving the backlash and standing up for refugees, immigrants and the best of British values.
We're with you 100%

Refugee Action added,

*Gary Lineker* @GaryLineker 
I will continue to speak up for refugees and immigrants and British values of tolerance and free speech. I won't be bullied by them.

And he & 200 other public figures have signed an open letter to May to open the door to these poor children.

_more than 200 figures including Carey Mulligan, Gary Lineker, Keira Knightley, Benedict Cumberbatch and Ralph Fiennes http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...h-fiennes-lord-dubs-theresa-may-a7578596.html_

*The letter:*
*
Dear Prime Minister,*

*The government's decision to close the "Dubs" lifeline for vulnerable refugee children is truly shameful.*

*The idea that as a country we will slam the door shut after just 350 children have reached safety is completely unacceptable.*

*Lord Dubs was himself a child saved by Sir Nicholas Winton who rescued 669 children virtually single-handed.*

_
*It is embarrassing that the Prime Minister's entire government will not even manage to match the example set by her former constituent all those years ago, let alone the efforts of the Kindertransport movement of which he was a part which saved 10,000 children from the Nazis.*

*It is clear from the work of charities like Citizens UK's Safe Passage project and Help Refugees with unaccompanied child refugees across Greece, Italy and France that where these safe and legal routes are blocked, children are left with a terrible choice between train tracks on the one hand and people traffickers on the other.*

*The government's threadbare consultation with councils is now nine months out of date.*

*The country we know and love is bigger than this. Communities and councils across the country stand ready to do more. The government must agree to extend the programme and re-consult with councils immediately.*_

What I do or say is non of your concern, RPH.



DoodlesRule said:


> Its very emotive Noush and on face value totally heartless - the article I read though said there was a temporary hold because there were insufficient suitable places to look after them.
> 
> Do you know the position for disabled in the UK - my niece is severely disabled (both physically & mentally) my sister has looked after her 24/7 for over 30 years, she hasn't had any respite for over 2 years now - no longer qualifies because she doesn't need tube feeding, thats how bad things are.


I'm so sorry about your niece. The simple fact is government policies are to blame for everything, this is why they need exposing & shaming.



DoodlesRule said:


> Not sure your point Cheeky - if the UK isn't looking after people already here it would just make the situation worse bringing more. Maybe the country is wealthy but most of the people are not - there are a lot of homeless, lots of people using food banks, disabled and elderly not taken care of, hospitals at breaking point


Tory austerity has created all these problems & now they use it as an excuse not to help the most vulnerable of children. This government really are despicable.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

noushka05 said:


> The right wing media dominates the press & you only need look on this forum & hear what people are saying on threads like this to see it has a big influence (even though they don't read them:Hilarious). There are people from all political persuasions on twitter. Peddlers of hate such as Katie Hopkins for example. Why was that tweet retweeted a lot? (I didn't think it was retweeted 500,000 times was it?) But it was retweeted a lot because Gary obviously speaks for a lot of people. I use twitter for finding out things & raising awareness . Gary Lineker & Lily Allen weren't even on my radar until I found out they too cared about the things I care about. If they have influence over their fans to do good, what is your problem? I don't get it. If they were speaking out & raising awareness about dog fighting would you feel the same?
> 
> The charities helping refugees are on twitter, I follow a lot of them too - they are easy to find & they are *thankful* for caring celebs like Gary Lineker & Lily Allen.
> 
> ...


So you keep saying Noush but sorry it doesn't make it believable or true - the only people I see on here quoting the so called right wing media are you and @KittenKong - you raise the awareness of them more than they do themselves which is hysterical.

I understand the world and his wife is on twitter - that was not the point I was trying to make - some of the most followed people on twitter such as Katie Perry and Barack Obama are hardly right wing are they? she has 95 million followers and he has 84 million - compare that to the newspapers and they are a p--s in the ocean. Of course there are right wing, middle ground and lefties on twitter and facebook etc but just those few people I quoted have access to far more "hearts and minds" than newspapers do. So you think it is OK for Gary and Lily (someone should write a song about them) to have influence over their fans but not for newspapers to have influence over their readers - in other words you find it acceptable for people to be influenced as long as they are being influenced by people you approve of :Hilarious:Hilarious

Good to see 200 wealthy individuals with high profiles have signed the letter - if I were Mrs May I would write back inviting them to apply to foster one of the children (subject to the usual vetting of course) and to fund them until they are of working age.

Of course what you say or do is none of my concern. just as what I say, do or think is none of yours but it has never stopped you commenting and quoting me which again shows your double standards. I don't want to get dragged into more mud slinging with you because frankly I find it depressing, one day I'm sure you will find something positive and encouraging to say about this country but I'm afraid while you continue to play the grim reaper at every opportunity, in the interests of my blood pressure I will go back to having you on ignore :Happy


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> Compare our hateful PM & country to this -.
> 
> *Justin TrudeauVerified account*‏@JustinTrudeau
> 
> *#WelcomeToCanada*


Yes we should take more genuine child refugees.

canada has a population of about 36 million and size nearly 4,000,000 sq miles

uk population over 65 million and size 93, 630 sq miles

The guy that shook hands with trump










ETA for anyone interested in world populations 
http://worldpopulationreview.com/


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> lots of people using food banks,


@DoodlesRule: My local Sainsbury's now has FOUR large boxes/tea chests to donate food for local charities (it started at two last year). I know Pets @ Home have a bin where you can donate for local animal charities (stuff your own cats are too grand to eat!) but am now seeing more and more collection points for the needy/homeless etc.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I wonder only what makes people think that money saved on those poor kids will go to any good cause like disabled, sick or homeless?
350mln on the buses conveniently dropped after referendum taught you nothing at all?


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> I wonder only what makes people think that money saved on those poor kids will go to any good cause like disabled, sick or homeless?
> 350mln on the buses conveniently dropped after referendum taught you nothing at all?


If you want to make sure the food and clothes you donate goes to the homeless do what this little boy done in Manchester:
*Meet the seven-year-old boy who saved up his pocket money to feed homeless people*
*







*
A kindhearted youngster saved up his pocket money to buy food for the homeless in Manchester city centre .

Bobby Brewster, seven, joined volunteers at a soup kitchen in Piccadilly Gardens to hand out food and clothes and offer some friendly conversation to homeless people.

His mum Sophie had no idea her son was quietly saving up his money to hand it out to those in need. And Bobby has now won an award at his school to recognise his efforts.

Bobby told the M.E.N.: "I went into Manchester with my parents and I saw a lot of homeless people on the streets, that is why I wanted to do it.

"I really felt sorry for them, and I saved up some of my money."

Bobby, a Year 3 pupil at Canon Burrows Primary School in Ashton , saved up £25 of his pocket money to buy food, including sandwiches and crisps, which he handed out to the homeless.

He also distributed clothes to help them keep warm, as well as dishing out food at the soup kitchen.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/boy-pocket-money-homeless-manchester-12309850.amp?client=ms-android-motorola

I am not getting into a debate on this thread about Brexit and the NHS as it has been discussed enough on the other thread that is about the EU Referendum. 

Regarding refugees we have enough problems in the UK with homelessness and children in care to deal with first as it is getting worse without adding to it by allowing refugees and child migrants in who do end up on the streets the majority of the time. Sorry of you don't like this comment.

*The true scale of Greater Manchester's homelessness crisis revealed*








More than 3,200 people are currently homeless across the region according to the charity Shelter - with Manchester identified as the North West's top 'homelessness hotspot'

The true scale of homelessness across the region has been exposed as campaigners reveal that 3,292 people are surviving without a home in Greater Manchester.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...sness-12255784.amp?client=ms-android-motorola









































The homeless in Manchester, you see them everywhere, I know because I visited there recently. They are down Market Street between the Arndale Centre, around Piccadilly, sleeping in fields in tents, outside the Library and Town Hall, underneath Piccadilly Railway Station, underneath bridges there are homeless communities being made as they sleep in tents and make shift homes out of cardboard. The council claim they have no homes available to home them, although there are homes available.

Why aren't they (the Homeless in Manchester or anywhere else in the UK) top priority to be rehomed by local councils (and the Government) and migrants and refugees are instead top priority? It's a false economy when you don't look after those already in this country first.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> If you want to make sure the food and clothes you donate goes to the homeless do what this little boy done in Manchester:
> *Meet the seven-year-old boy who saved up his pocket money to feed homeless people*
> *
> View attachment 300903
> ...


Remember we actually promised to help.
When we promised we thought we can. What have changed since then?

We are not discussing any new arrangements but fulfilling the already promised and earmarked.
That is the difference.

If it has nothing to do with Brexit then
why not Ker that promise?
When we promised we had the same situation as now?
No megadisaster happened? To suddenly ruin Britain and make fulfilling that promise impossible?

Or it did?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

We are still going to take them in, just not under that banner as it was causing problems in France.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commo...-A13C-9CB86838707E/UnaccompaniedChildRefugees


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

rona said:


> We are still going to take them in, just not under that banner as it was causing problems in France.
> 
> https://hansard.parliament.uk/commo...-A13C-9CB86838707E/UnaccompaniedChildRefugees


I do hope they will not end as involuntary organ donors.

Have you read what is happening with those naive teenagers? Thinking they are getting new job and going with total strangers?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So you keep saying Noush but sorry it doesn't make it believable or true - the only people I see on here quoting the so called right wing media are you and @KittenKong - you raise the awareness of them more than they do themselves which is hysterical.
> 
> I understand the world and his wife is on twitter - that was not the point I was trying to make - some of the most followed people on twitter such as Katie Perry and Barack Obama are hardly right wing are they? she has 95 million followers and he has 84 million - compare that to the newspapers and they are a p--s in the ocean. Of course there are right wing, middle ground and lefties on twitter and facebook etc but just those few people I quoted have access to far more "hearts and minds" than newspapers do. So you think it is OK for Gary and Lily (someone should write a song about them) to have influence over their fans but not for newspapers to have influence over their readers - in other words you find it acceptable for people to be influenced as long as they are being influenced by people you approve of :Hilarious:Hilarious
> 
> ...


Well its funny that they seem to always parrot right wing propaganda that immigrants are to blame for lack of housing, struggling public services,our collapsing NHS . And I actually do read right wing trash, how can I counter all the misinformation if I don't 

Its a pity more people don't use twitter tbqh, they could be better informed. You get all sides on there, along with experts, scientists & renowned academics. The difference between Gary Lineker and the gutter press is that he has humanity, he doesn't spread hate & lies. Gary lineker is doing what all good journalists should be doing - holding this goddam heartless government to account. He spreads kindness & compassion, speaks out against fascism & xenophobia, so yes, I do hope he has an influences his fans to counter all the distorted information & the hate we're being fed.

Yes, I'm sure you'd rather Theresa leave those children on the streets then have us help them. So much for 'Christian values', hey. We mustn't talk our country down must we, even when childrens lives are at risk & thousands of people are struggling to survive, lets sweep everything under the carpet, put on our rose tinted specs & be proud of this country. Nationalism at it best 

Fancy getting your blood pressure up defending this cruel government again :/. I can't be bothered to go on because you wont even see this anyways



kimthecat said:


> Yes we should take more genuine child refugees.
> 
> canada has a population of about 36 million and size nearly 4,000,000 sq miles
> 
> ...


Yes we should. The rest of the 3,000 Dubs children we promised would be a good a start. We have plenty of land for them, plenty of money - just not the will.

I prefer this pic lol










Theres even a Trudeau v Trump handshake analysis lol












rona said:


> We are still going to take them in, just not under that banner as it was causing problems in France.
> 
> https://hansard.parliament.uk/commo...-A13C-9CB86838707E/UnaccompaniedChildRefugees


Not how those in the know are interpreting it Rona  I like the bit where Amber Rudd claims the Dubs scheme incentivises children to become refugees best. Jeezus Christ.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> If you want to make sure the food and clothes you donate goes to the homeless do what this little boy done in Manchester:
> *Meet the seven-year-old boy who saved up his pocket money to feed homeless people*
> *
> View attachment 300903
> ...


Thank you for making my point about people being fooled by the right wing press. No where on either of those links you provided does it say migrants/refugees are the reason for the homeless crisis. In fact one of your links actually states the reasons -
*
Thousands of people in the North West will face the trauma of waking up homeless this Christmas. Decades in the making, this is the tragic result of a nation struggling under the weight of sky-high rents, a lack of affordable homes, and cuts to welfare support.*

Over 6 years of crippling tory austerity is the main driver for the spike in homelessness. Migrants & refugees are being used as convenient scapegoats - yet again.

https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en.pdf


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Got this email today which I share because some people may wish to write to their MP.

"Thank you to everyone who wrote to their MP and asked them to attend yesterday's debate on refugee children.

So many MPs turned up to speak and engagement was so strong that late last night I heard that they've had to delay the vote till next Wednesday when every MP in the country should be back in Parliament.

*Will you write to your MP this weekend and ask them to vote to keeps Dubs open?*

The vote won't be binding on the Government but, with every MP in the country watching on Wednesday, there is a real chance to send a clear message: that we must save the Dubs lifeline for refugee children.

We will need to keep organising beyond this moment, in our communities and in parliament, but we have a real opportunity here.

Thank you,

Rowan Williams

Refugee Welcome - Citizens UK
http://citizens.nationbuilder.com/"


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

One last push - again an email from last night shared for those who may wish to support the amendment.

*******************
MPs from across the political spectrum voted in support of the Dubs scheme in a non-binding ballot.

The vote today sent a strong message - but it was symbolic.

Now we need to put this into law.

*We have just heard that, encouraged by today, a cross-party group of MPs are taking a new amendment to Parliament on Tuesday.*

*This is it. This is our chance to put Britain back on the right side of history and save the Dubs scheme.*

*Email your MP and ask them to make history on Tuesday.*

If MPs vote in favour of his new amendment, this would force the Government to re-consult local authorities and identify further capacity to help children through the Dubs scheme.

We need to make sure that all the MPs who have spoken up - in debates, on social media, in speeches and at the ballot today - come together and vote to save the Dubs scheme on Tuesday.

*Please email your MP and convince them to save the Dubs scheme on Tuesday.*

Thank you.

Lord Alf Dubs

Refugee Welcome - Citizens UK


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jonescat said:


> One last push - again an email from last night shared for those who may wish to support the amendment.
> 
> *******************
> MPs from across the political spectrum voted in support of the Dubs scheme in a non-binding ballot.
> ...


I was very pleased with my MP, he voted to save the Dubs scheme on tuesday. I'm sure he will be there next tuesday for the second vote, but I'm going to write to him anyway. Thanks @Jonescat.

Twenty tories voted against their own government - twenty.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

What is happening to this country 








*Caroline Lucas*‏Verified ac[email protected]*CarolineLucas* 15h15 hours ago

We should be ashamed that vote to protect unaccompanied refugee children lost by 20.
Govt. continues to endanger their lives. #*DubsNow*


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

I guess this is the last mail from Lord Dubs for now
**********************************************************
We came together to write and call our MPs - to ask them to vote on a new amendment that could give hope to the most vulnerable refugee children.

But instead of pushing the door open, it's just been shut to thousands of children across Europe who will spend tonight alone and in some of the worst conditions I've seen.

*I'm devastated. The Britain I know is better than this.*

The Britain I know is made of heroes like Sir Nicholas Winton, who saved 669 children virtually single handed on the eve of the Second World War. I was one of them.

*That's why today I am asking you to support the Alf Dubs Children's Fund.*

Together with Citizens UK's Safe Passage, this Fund will seek out safe and legal routes for vulnerable children to find refuge in the UK.

Already we have staff on the ground in Greece, Italy and France, working with the tens of thousands of children stranded there.

Theresa May's government may have failed these children - but we won't give up.

*You are the Britain that I believe in. An open, welcoming and just country.*

Thank you for every letter, phone call and action you've taken.

Each one makes a difference. It tilts the scales of justice towards fairness and compassion.

*I'm asking you today to donate and help tilt those scales a little further.*

Together we can make the difference.

Together we are powerful.

Lord Alf Dubs

Refugee Welcome - Citizens UK
http://citizens.nationbuilder.com/

https://alf-dubs-childrens-fund.fun...sscheme&utm_medium=email&tags=dubslaunchdonor


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