# Training as a dog trainer



## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

Just brought this conversation over from another thread.

I'm currently registered with the KCAI scheme and I know there are loads of people on here either pursuing, or actually practicing as dog trainers.

I am finding that it's not too difficult to equip yourself with the theoretical knowledge you need, but it's difficult to get good, structured practicle training and I wondered if anyone had any tips or knew of any practacle courses. I have managed to expand my skills at running classes by hitching my star to other trainers I admire and either sitting in on their classes, or joining with my own dog (still a lot cheaper than some trainers courses, I'm sure).

Just looking for general chat and possibly some ideas.


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## rheasmum (Apr 5, 2012)

Old shep

I recently done this 4 day course you start by taking small classes with your fellow students for 10mins and then the course progresses to taking your own 20 minute course with the general public. It covers all subjects from how to set up the classes,content and ongoing appraisal. its also good because you can see fellow students taking lessons and learn from that.Evan if you are quite advanced with your experience I still think its a beneficial course . I'm going to be taking the 6 day advanced course and assessment in November and after looking at all the courses this is one accrediting body I would recommended. The APDT is the biggest most well known association but this covers a lot more and is not just class based the assessment to become a member is probably the most in-depth hands on available. 4 Day Practical


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I'm still wary of their use of the term "accredited" without any information as to who by. I'm not saying they aren't good, but the term "accreditation" has a particular, specific definition. As far as I'm aware this is what led the KC to change the name of the Accredited Breeders' Scheme to the Assured Breeders Scheme.


Are you able to get regular teaching practice? I'm helping a friend with her classes, which is great as we are both learning from each other. I'd just like to get some more specific information about training. I know the APDT do some booklets and we have the one on running puppy classes. It's quite basic and general though (we don't do specific puppy classes anyway). Are you aware of these booklets?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Way back in the dark ages I used to teach pet classes at a local KC registered dog training club.

Moving forward a few years from then I rang pet classes for the local education authority. At the time I was working in a school where the uptake for evening classes wasn't very good and I suggested, almost as a joke, dog training.
We were inundated.

If I remember correctly we used to split the first class into four sections - walking on a loose lead, recall, sit stay and down stay. I do remember though that I always used outside impartial judges and marked out of 20 (5 for each exercise) so if they didn't do either the sit or down stay, they would not pass.

Obviously we would also problem solve ie jumping up, toileting problems, etc. etc.

It was a shame really but in the end we just had too many dogs and had to introduce an intermediate and then an advanced class. The caretaker would go into a strop if we didn't finish dead on 10.00pm and I wasn't prepared to do two evenings, as I was already running a competitive obedience class and an agility class elsewhere.

HTH


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## rheasmum (Apr 5, 2012)

> I'm still wary of their use of the term "accredited" without any information as to who by. I'm not saying they aren't good, but the term "accreditation"


I wouldnt be Oldshep they are linked Via the APDT site plus I found this information on the site<


> Members may apply via The iMDT office for The Open College Network level III qualification of 'Principles of Dog Training & Behaviour' as the qualification criteria will have been met as part of their sucessful Membership Assessment.


The quality of the Education provided is 2nd to none and based on modern science based learning theory.


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## rheasmum (Apr 5, 2012)

In the 4 day course you get to take many classes and get appraisal, plus i think its good that you get ideas from others. Im not intending to take classes but do 1-1 on aggression problems and home visits etc


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

When i was looking into it i did like you said & observed other trainers running classes. I took a course in clicker training but it all stopped there as i went into a full time job. Not sure where abouts you are but i was looking at this 
Workshop & Courses


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## isleofcebu (Mar 25, 2012)

I would be very wary of anyone who says you can do a 4 day course to become a dog trainer. It takes a lot of practical experience, reading, attending seminars and workshops to make a dog trainer/behaviourist. Find a decent dog trainer and ask if you can shadow them. Attend as many different courses as you can with your own dogs so you can practice. You need to have not just one way of training a behaviour by many different ways, not everything works for every dog or person. You must be flexible.

Good luck!:001_smile:


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

isleofcebu said:


> I would be very wary of anyone who says you can do a 4 day course to become a dog trainer. It takes a lot of practical experience, reading, attending seminars and workshops to make a dog trainer/behaviourist. Find a decent dog trainer and ask if you can shadow them. Attend as many different courses as you can with your own dogs so you can practice. You need to have not just one way of training a behaviour by many different ways, not everything works for every dog or person. You must be flexible.
> 
> Good luck!:001_smile:


Oh how very true.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

Absolutly agree. The whole area of dog training is fraught with difficulty. The reason I chose to go for the KCAI is because it _is_ externally validated.

At the moment I'm completing a canine aggression course (Compass College. theory only). The course doesn't actually provide you with information, you have to find that yourself (the course notes are scanty and dire!), but I've found that the discipline needed to answer the questions has focussed me. I don't know what the standard required to pass is as I have only completed the first module and am awating it being marked and returned, but they say, as a guide that the 4 modules should take around 3 months to complete. Anyone who can do that, to a good level, must be doing it full time, in my opinion as it's taken me 4 months to complete the first module alone! However, I am using it as an opportunity to further my own knowledge, not to "pass" at a low level. I'm really enjoying it and have learned a lot. Again, the notes they provide are dismal, but the questions to be answered are well thought out and you really have to be prepared to get out there are read as much as you can.

I do have a lot of experience training and teaching adults, just not in dog training


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## isleofcebu (Mar 25, 2012)

It looks as though the Imdt is run by Steve Mann who is a member of the APDT. He was one of the trainers on the first celebrity dog training programme on TV and his celebrity and dog won the competition (can't remember who the celeb was). He then went on to be a judge in the next series.

Steve is a very good trainer as far as I am aware, although I haven't met him I have chatted with him on the APDT forum.


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## rheasmum (Apr 5, 2012)

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> I would be very wary of anyone who says you can do a 4 day course to become a dog trainer


Sorry my mistake IMDT does not say doing this course or evan all of them will make you a trainer, it simply helps toward this goal. The Assesment is in 4 parts over 2 days and you have to have meet certain % on each to pass. Taking the courses will not Guarantee a pass. But learning and getting Experience helps.


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## Bedlingtondoodle (Oct 1, 2011)

To gain some experience with a wide variety of dogs you could volunteer at dog pounds/shelters.
Go to as many varied courses as possible ( I realise that some of them are costly). I did ones by trainers who's methods I didn't agree with at all just to see what else is out there and what people may come to you believing because that is what the last trainer told them.
Get into as many types of dog training as possible ie Tracking, agility, gundog... anything. Because each one will bring something new and a different way to achieve a result. Skills become transferable between different training disciplines and you can pick out what works.

The big realisation for me was learning more about how HUMANS learn and work after all you ain't training dogs you're training people how to train dogs 

I have studied under some trainers who could put you to sleep instantly or ramble on and you can see their students thinking wtf???

You will remember good teachers from school (even at my age) and you will sure as hell remember Bad ones as well!


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> I am finding that it's not too difficult to equip yourself with the theoretical knowledge you need, but it's difficult to get good, structured practicle training and I wondered if anyone had any tips or knew of any practacle courses. I have managed to expand my skills at running classes by hitching my star to other trainers I admire and either sitting in on their classes, or joining with my own dog (still a lot cheaper than some trainers courses, I'm sure).
> 
> Just looking for general chat and possibly some ideas.


I like the KCAI scheme as it is the ONLY one that has external verification ie City and Guilds, unlike ALL the others (IMDT, APDT, ADTB, GoDT, BIPDT et al).

The depth and breadth of work you must produce is by far the most rigourous required in the UK including two projects and the asssessment.

If you are an experienced teacher of adults I assume you have some sort of teaching qualification if not then I would recommend PTLLS as this does provide the training required to produce programmes and lesson planning etc.

I can personally recommend Di Morgan who is not only a KCAI member and trainer (Companion and Obedience) but runs such dog training courses in an extremely structured way.

Why not contact her for details of her next one?

List of Accredited Instructors - The Kennel Club

You may also wish to explore the courses put on by the IABTC run by another KCAI Angela White

Home


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

If you already have experience training/teaching adults you might find for the KCAI you don't need as much practical experience running dog training classes as other people who don't have that experience - I have heard KCAI mentors call it 'a teaching qualification'. You still need dog experience, so volunteering to walk or even foster dogs for your local rescue would be helpful, offering to help out a dog walker even would be valuable as you can see the interaction.

I also struggled with finding practical class experience, some of the practical courses I went on was me teaching the dogs, not humans. Not sure where you are, but I tried Mic Martin - his course is great - although I don't agree with some of his methods he never hurts a dog and the theory was very good (although sounds like you don't need that so much). We had to set up lesson plans and other aspects of running classes. unfortunately most of the practical was really just 'stewarding' a class, rather than teaching it, and the weather was so bad when I did it, we didn't get outside much! Robert Alleyne also takes a few select people in for a once a week training class - he lets the dogs and owners in for free so you get lots of owners to work with, and he only has 3 or 4 people in at once. Forget Dog Borstal, it's not like that at all! And even if you disagree with all the methods people use, you need to learn them all as owners have no problems with squirting water, shaking rattles, using electric shocks etc on their dogs. In some cases they won't give up their rattle bottles so at least you would know how to get them to use them so they work. Or if you decide you will never use that method, you still need to know about it so you can help the owners.

I also found to help out other dog trainers about an hour distant from my home was needed, or they would see you as competition! So go to a few dog shows run by dog clubs and see if you can get some 'work experience' as an assistant, but do be upfront. I'm really happy for anyone to come and see me who wants to help out with dogs, as at weekends I often need extra help! You get experience with dogs, advice and a chance to muck in, I get some help and ideally a 'testimonial' I can use!

Sorry went on for a bit, but I hope that helps?


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

Smokeybear_we have links to a fairly local KCAI member who has been very helpful. We are running the KCGC scheme and should have the first group ready for assessment in the autumn. We are also working through the Puppy Foundation booklets with the puppy owners who attend.

I help run agility training once a week, as well. It's very informal, but good fun (I am an experienced compeditor, though I have not competed for about 5 years), so I suppose that's good experience too.

Maybe I'm stressing too much


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## rheasmum (Apr 5, 2012)

> but I tried Mic Martin - his course is great - although I don't agree with some of his methods he never hurts a dog and the theory was very good


So did i about 12 years ago he used to run classes at leavesdon studios in Watford. i was not impressed by the way he forced a Akita puppy into a sit. Unless he has changed a lot he is an old school trainer. I certainly wouldnt recommend him.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

12 years is a long time, everyone learns new things all the time.


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## becky100 (Jul 24, 2012)

Hello! 

I have been dog training for 10 years now and qualified as an APDT dog trainer about 4 years ago. APDT do lots of courses (both practical and theory) But I think the best thing to do is to get yourself into a good dog school who care about the training of their trainers. They will then teach you lots! They should give you exposure to different types of classes (older dogs with no experience, older well trained dogs that need pushing, very young puppies and dogs with some behavioural issues) They should then let you teach little bits of classes to build up your confidence and then before you know it you will be running classes quite well  

Hope that helps


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I think the problem, Becky, is actually finding someone who is willing to spend that ammount of time with you.
There are only 2 trainers in this area who I would rate as having the level of knowlede appropriate to train another trainer (that I know of). I have left my details with one (who I have volunteered with before for her "rehab" class) but she's not taking anyone at present because of other commitments. 
I'm hoping to ask the other one later in the year (when I'll have participated in some more of her classes with my dog). I think I'm just a bit of a perfectionist--learning in this way is fraught with difficulties. It is recognised as being not the best way to learn a skill and is referred to as the "sitting by Nellie" system ie. you work alongside someone and hope they do things correctly, so you'll pick up their skills.


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## becky100 (Jul 24, 2012)

Ah thats a shame! 

Where abouts are you? 

You are right to be picky! You dont want to be learning or even associate yourself with anyone who is less than amazing!!


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I'm in south/mid scotland. I suppose I'm helping at 2 different classes each week, so it's not too bad.


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## TangoCharlie (Jun 15, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> I like the KCAI scheme as it is the ONLY one that has external verification ie City and Guilds, unlike ALL the others (IMDT, APDT, ADTB, GoDT, BIPDT et al).
> 
> The depth and breadth of work you must produce is by far the most rigourous required in the UK including two projects and the asssessment.
> 
> ...


Not true.
The IMDT is externally verified.


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