# Refusal to give dogs back without proof of ownership.



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

My mum's neighbours, Mr & Mrs Smith, have got 2 dogs, a spaniel and a miniature schnauzer. They went missing last week when one of the grandchildren left the gate open. Mr & Mrs Smith realised after about 15 mins and went in search of the dogs. Mr Smith headed up the village and Mrs Smith went down.

Mr Smith got a couple of hundred yards up the village and could hear their dogs barking so he followed the noise and found them shut in a yard of a house where he doesn't know the occupants. The dogs had wandered into the garden and the finder contained them for safety and had already called the dog warden. Neither of the dogs had a tag on their collar and the finder refused to let Mr Smith take his dogs home as there was no proof of ownership and ordered him off their property. Mr Smith complied and left to find Mrs Smith to tell her the dogs were safe and see if she had any ideas to prove ownership.By the time he found her and they returned to the finders house the dog warden had collected Mr & Mrs Smith's dogs and taken them to kennels some 15 miles away.

Mr & Mrs Smith had to contact the kennels and pay a fine of over £100 and drive a 30 mile round trip in order to be reunited with their dogs. The kennels didn't ask to see any proof of ownership, and neither dog is microchipped but the kennel manager was happy to accept the dog's joyous greeting when when reunited with Mr & Mrs Smith.

I am torn over how I feel about this. Firstly I think the Smiths should have had the tags on the dogs collars as required by law.

I applaud the finders for making the dogs safe and with the amount of dog theft that goes on I can understand why they asked for proof of ownership. However, I do think they acted hastily in calling the dog warden immediately rather than asking around in the village if anyone knew who the dogs belonged to. I think allowing the dog warden to take the dogs whilst Mr Smith was looking for Mrs Smith was harsh.

I grew up in the village and the situation would never have happened back then. Everyone knew everyone and which dog belonged to whom. It's a sad situation that this has changed so much in recent times and people don't even know their neighbours let alone if they have a dog or not.

Both dogs now have a shiny new tag on their collars and have been microchipped.

What are your thoughts?

ETA This would never happen to me because my dogs wear their tags 24/7 and are microchipped. But if someone refused to give me the Muttleys back, I think I would use reasonable force to get them back.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I live in a fairly small village and found a lost dog one night. She had been chased on to the fields by another dog. I walked around with her for an hour and nobody recognised her. I called the dog warden the next day and they came to collect her. She wasn't chipped, but was collected later that day. I think they did the right thing in calling the warden. I also think the kennels should have asked for proof that they were the owners to make them aware how important it is.

I'm out with my dogs if they are in the garden and they don't have their collars on, so would be in the same position if they got out. They are both chipped and here the warden can give them back if they are chipped. I'd just be grateful they were safe and someone had taken them in.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

I think Mr and Mrs Smith learned a good lesson. Next time they might not have been so lucky. Now the dogs are tagged and they will be more careful about leaving them in the yard unattended besides. Well worth the £100 and the 30 miles, I'd say.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

metaldog said:


> Mr Smith got a couple of hundred yards up the village and could hear their dogs barking so he followed the noise and found them shut in a yard of a house where he doesn't know the occupants. The dogs had wandered into the garden and the finder contained them for safety and had already called the dog warden. Neither of the dogs had a tag on their collar and the finder refused to let Mr Smith take his dogs home as there was no proof of ownership and ordered him off their property. Mr Smith complied and left to find Mrs Smith to tell her the dogs were safe and see if she had any ideas to prove ownership.By the time he found her and they returned to the finders house the dog warden had collected Mr & Mrs Smith's dogs and taken them to kennels some 15 miles away.
> 
> Mr & Mrs Smith had to contact the kennels and pay a fine of over £100 and drive a 30 mile round trip in order to be reunited with their dogs. The kennels didn't ask to see any proof of ownership, and neither dog is microchipped but the kennel manager was happy to accept the dog's joyous greeting when when reunited with Mr & Mrs Smith.
> 
> ...


If it was me I would not have left the property ie I would have waited outside and use my mobile phone to contact my other half (if I had one)
I would have phoned the dog warden myself (number is in my mobile phone)
I do not believe they acted hastily in calling the dog warden, they did exactly what the law advises you to do.
The finder did not "allow" the dog warden to take the dogs, that is what the dog warden's job is
Never think it may never happen to you as tags fall off, collars break etc and most finders do not have scanner to determine if the dog has a chip and to whom it belongs.
Some lessons can only be learned the hard way and as the owners contravened the Control of Dogs Order 1992 by not having legally compliant IDs they should consider themselves lucky they did not have to cough up yet more money. Consequences drive behaviour and their new tags were very expensive!


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Tbh with the way dogs are being used as bait for fighting dogs these days I totally agree with the people who found the dogs in not just handing them over without proof.

It may be an expensive lesson for the owners but all that really matters is that both dogs are safe and happy


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## PawsandFeathers (May 23, 2015)

I would like to kick the warden in the rear! Makes me wonder why the owners did not take photo with them after they new were the dogs were or at the dog wardens kennel


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Difficult one this and to a large extent and I think it hinges on where you live and individual circumstances.
I live in a village which numerically isn't that big, but physically is. It has the rep of being one of the longest and houses are scattered all over, drives delivery men up the wall trying to find people.

I wouldn't always know a person from another end of the village let alone their dog, so if I had found a dog straying and someone who was a stranger to me said it was theirs, I would be a bit reluctant, but I think I would see how the dog reacted to them. That usual joyous greeting would be the key, as the warden in this case used as an id.

It's a salutary lesson though about having a form of visual id on your dog. I know a lot of people do take collars off their dogs when at home, personally I don't and never have even when I had two dogs that played madly together, never had an incidence of one dog getting somehow stuck on the other ones collar. 

Although I don't think Isla would stray far if she got out, you never know. Yes, she's chipped, but the finders normally don't have a chip reader at home, so will call the local dog warden/dog home/police pretty much straight away these days.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Absolutely the correct thing to do. The primary concern is the safety of the animals, not the convenience of the owner.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

It's very difficult to know all the circumstances when info. is second hand . I used to work with a dog warden service some years ago and I'm surprised that the dog warden would take the dog all the way to the kennels if the person who found them had told him/her the owner had already been to his house so lived nearby. Did the owner leave details with the person or perhaps he didn't get the chance as things seemed rather heated? The man did right in phoning the dog warden straight away and he may have had pets of his own so it wasn't possible for him to keep the dog for long. Also he couldn't and shouldn't then have just handed the dogs over to a stranger who said he was the owner, frustrating as this is to that person. He was lucky the dog warden could come quickly, sometimes if they are very busy, it can be hours. I would have expected the dog warden to make enquiries around the village and, hopefully, 're-unite the dog with Mr and Mrs Smith more quickly though they would still have had to pay the fee to get the dogs back. If people have dogs, then they must know the law and do what is necessary. Lucky someone took them in, if they had got into the hands of an unscrupulous person, with no means of identification, it might have been a much sadder story.


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

The rules are laid down by the government, how the council interprets them is open to question. Round here the dog is collected by the dog warden, it is checked for a microchip or tattoo or any other form of ID. If the animal is injured it is taken to a vets. A photo is taken and then it is placed in private kennels. Should the owner contact the dog warden and identify the dog and the warden is satisfied it is the right dog then the owner is asked to pay £75 (plus any vet fees). If this is received
the dog warden returns to the kennels and picks up the dog and takes it to the owner. The £75 includes the kennel fee. Under no circumstances does the owner know where the animal is held. If the dog is not claimed within 7 full days it is passed on to a charity for rehoming.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I think it is totally ridiculous. How many people on here have found dogs and walked round knocking on doors. Anyone could say the dogs belong to them, you are hardly going to refuse to give them back to their owners. I would have called the police if someone refused to give my dogs back to me.


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## PawsandFeathers (May 23, 2015)

How silly the laws are their to protect us heaven forbid if a fibber dog fighter should claim those poor dogs and they should die because the finder decided they would take their word for it how irrasponsible would that be?

The finder totally did the right thing the dog warden was in the wrong and open himself up to a can of worms he is not doing his job propperly plain and simple the dogs maybe the owners but it was their responsability to chip and tag their dogs.

Finally lots of wardens sell dogs on now so its really important that dogs are covered with the basics of an id tag the fault is entirely with the owners and the dog warden you ant go round demanding your dogs back because the owners could not be bothered to do for fill the basic legal requirements of dog ownership.

their can't be rules for one and not the other


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

Dogs unharmed and back with owners. Problem solved. Don't see the issue personally.


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## PawsandFeathers (May 23, 2015)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> Dogs unharmed and back with owners. Problem solved. Don't see the issue personally.


I think its the anger that they could not have their dogs back straight they found them but if they had id tags on the dogs, proof of address and a photograph of them it could have been a different story. Obviously their not the first things you go for when you realise your dog is missing but they could have gone back and got them the finder would have probably let them have them.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I live in a small village and most dogs found wandering aren't far from their driveway, the exception was a Husky that once charged after us in a field..I was on my way home , it seemed friendly and followed us home but stayed on some grass opposite my house I took my dogs in then came back out with a drink and food trying to get it down the drive so I could clip it onto a long line. I wasn't quick enough it ate the food and water and shot off again. 
A neighbour further down managed to get it in their back garden then borrowed a lead to walk it down to the village vets to see if it was chipped, luckily it was was and owner came to collect it. This dog though had come from the other side of town so had run quite a distance! 
Our dog wardens office in town does not have its own kennels, the nearest they used to use were shut down due to the conditions the dogs were kept in there, so now have at least a 20 mile trip (and they aren't much better tbh)and if you can't drive and wouldn't be able to get in the dog wardens office in the first place it's a nightmare. Luckily we're well known with me being the youngest person on mobility scooter and pulling a dog bike trailer, though neither of mine have ever run off. 
Personally I'd ask around where dog was found, if couldn't find anyone who knew where it lived I'd bring it home if it was friendly with mine and look online, ask my neighbours, check doglost, Chances are if it was in the village and from here I'd recognise it, but have 2 nature parks fairly nearby used by many members of public who don't actually live in this area, so I'd probably go check there too as usually if someone lost a dog whilst going round there they will go back to put posters up. 

You can buy microchip scanners off ebay now so if people had one at home they could scan it to get the number, then ask whoever contacted them saying it was their dog what is the dogs chip number and can you bring their vaccination record (my dogs chip number is on the top of theirs) or other proof of the dogs chip number. or phone/email the chip company tell them you have this dog, can they pass your details on for owners to collect dog, then you'd know it had to be them if you'd done it that way and not just put public posters up that anyone could answer? ..particuarly if it was a staffie I'd found I wouldn't go putting posters up knowing that people are going round looking for bait for fighting and a lost staffie ad would be too easy for them and to take from a disabled woman in a wheelchair if they were that way inclined to use force to get dogs by whatever means.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

So what is proof of ownership. A microchip is not proof of ownership. Taking into account that a dog is property I suppose the only proof of ownership would be a receipt and a description. So really none of us probably could prove our dogs are ours. I really cannot believe that anyone on here would think it the right thing to do if they could not get their own dogs back in this situation. How many people on here do not leave collars on their dogs and even think it is wrong to do so. So dogs get out of the garden, someone down the road takes them in and they are lost to you. Come on, let's have some common sense.

For heavens sake Inca - why on earth would everyone want to own a scanner and how many people could put their hands on the microchip records and how many dogs are not vaccinated - get real. Now of course, once the new law comes in and dogs have to be microchipped it would be a brilliant way to police it and fine owners for not having their dogs chipped - but that will never happen, far too much work for someone.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I see no issues here at all...considering the dogs weren't chipped or tagged then the owners are lucky to have got their dogs back at all before the 7 or 5 day cool off period 

Dog wardens seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't....this wouldn't have happened if the dogs had tags, so it is the owners mistake, not the wardens as he was doing his job...


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> I see no issues here at all...considering the dogs weren't chipped or tagged then the owners are lucky to have got their dogs back at all before the 7 or 5 day cool off period
> 
> Dog wardens seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't....this wouldn't have happened if the dogs had tags, so it is the owners mistake, not the wardens as he was doing his job...


But we are not talking about the warden just coming quickly and collecting them, that is great if they were called. We are talking about the owners having already claimed and found their dogs. Can you honestly say that if your dogs got out without collars on (and the chip is totally irrelevant in this situation) you would just go away and think it ok that the warden took your dogs away and you had to drive 30 miles to get them (no doubt after a lot of phoning round and panicking as to where they were ) when all the warden had to do was wait a few minutes for you to come back again. And I reiterate, the chip is not proof of ownership, the whole thing of returning dogs is done on trust and the dog's reaction to the owner.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

If the dogs had been wearing a tag in a public place, as they are supposed to be it wouldn't have happened. They were lucky to get the dogs back as quickly as they did


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I think the finder did the correct thing.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

That is one prompt dog warden if they collected the dogs that quickly LOL! wouldn't happen around here.

Personally if I was the finder, the reaction of the dogs to the owner would be enough for me. But then I'm not the sort of person who automatically assumes the worst in people (like looking for a dog for dog baiting - really!!?). Sad world we live in in that this appears to be becoming the norm!


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I have a feeling there may be more to this story than meets the eye......................


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I hope we all remember this thread when someone on here has an accident and their dogs get out with no collar on - and of course most people on here think it dangerous to leave collars on their dogs so it could happen very easily. My dogs always wear collars (though as SB says they can always lose a tag) and they are chipped, but I would be more than angry if someone found them and refused to give them back and as I say I would call the police who I am fairly certain would back me up.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

What is proof of ownership? I have countless pictures of Spen, I have his passport, he's registered to me at the vets, he's microchipped to my husband. And I wouldn't have a single one of those things on me if I lost him and were out looking for him. Not even a photo as my phone is practically an antique.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> I have a feeling there may be more to this story than meets the eye......................


I feel the same, I would hope any finder of my dogs would follow the law mine don't wear collars in the house or garden but then we live in a gated area, I'd say there was a reason that the finder asked for proof of ownership, something that made them think the dog didn't belong to the Smiths.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> What is proof of ownership? I have countless pictures of Spen, I have his passport, he's registered to me at the vets, he's microchipped to my husband. And I wouldn't have a single one of those things on me if I lost him and were out looking for him. Not even a photo as my phone is practically an antique.


If I was looking for my dogs I'd at least have their leads and collars with me or how else would I get them home, which do luckily have their pictures on with my address and phone numbers....


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

I think the owners should be feeling very lucky that the dogs were safe and well and they didn't have to endure months of searching to find them.
Though I don't agree that the dog's reaction should be used as 'evidence' of ownership. Broder would react a lot happier to meeting someone new than his boring owner who he sees every day!


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I hope we all remember this thread when someone on here has an accident and their dogs get out with no collar on - and of course most people on here think it dangerous to leave collars on their dogs so it could happen very easily. My dogs always wear collars (though as SB says they can always lose a tag) and they are chipped, but I would be more than angry if someone found them and refused to give them back and as I say I would call the police who I am fairly certain would back me up.


Half of the stuff I've heard on here I have only ever heard in forum world not real life. It does give me a good chuckle though.

We had a big chunk of a chocolate Labrador show up in our garden a couple of weeks ago. Our garden is unfenced because of a stream at the back so obviously he came from down there. Wouldn't even occur to me to withhold the dog from the owners if they came knocking and then ship him off the dog warden.


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## PawsandFeathers (May 23, 2015)

Obviously if the dogs had been chipped and the owners had brought proof of propperty that would be enoiugh as proof of ownership

See the cat section for a story about a cat that been found and allowed to be kept by the finders despite being registered as missing and clearly owning the cat the vet who scanned for a chip felt that the couple should keep the cat because they had got attached!

No debate that the cat belongs to someone imagine if the boot was on the other foot the vet should be ashamed of themselves if I were them I would have confiscated the cat till the official owners came to collect and asked for their address as evidence.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

PawsandFeathers said:


> I would like to kick the warden in the rear! Makes me wonder why the owners did not take photo with them after they new were the dogs were or at the dog wardens kennel


So you would like to commit physical abuse to someone who is carrying out their duties as trained and as by law? What an intelligent, logical and thoughtful response. As for taking photos with you, many people (including me) have very few photos of their dogs and the are in digital format ie in a "cloud" not in hard copy and my elder dog looks quite different from most of these photos now with his greying muzzle.

Imagine if you have a black labrador and you took a photo of it with you, how many people could say the black labrador in their custody matched the one in the photo.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Meezey said:


> If I was looking for my dogs I'd at least have their leads and collars with me or how else would I get them home, which do luckily have their pictures on with my address and phone numbers....


I'd have at least a lead with me but that's hardly proof of ownership. Collar I'd assume would be on him unless he'd somehow escaped from the house but it could easily have broken or the tag come off or something. Nor would I be likely to have proof of my own identity on me if they then demanded I prove I am who I say I am as I tend not to carry my passport around.

I could describe my dog, his broken tail and the odd looking patch on one of his back legs where the hair never grew back the same after a hotspot. But as I say, what actually proves that he is mine?

Not saying the finders did wrong as such, I'm just not sure what sort of proof people can give that they'd likely think to have on them while looking for their dog. A photo is the most likely but would that be enough?


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

labradrk said:


> That is one prompt dog warden if they collected the dogs that quickly LOL! wouldn't happen around here.


Snap! I'm also very surprised they'd take them to kennels so far away if the finders had advised them that the owners had already been around (but we don't know they did). Personally I'd have hung off and stuck a post on FB and a few other places and hung on a couple of hours to see if anyone had lost the dogs / come round (and I would've asked for some proof they belonged to them eg photos of the dogs)

Maybe they are scared of dogs / maybe they had other pets and needed them gone ASAP - we don't know their circumstances so I don't think we can judge them too harshly - they kept the dogs safe

Still - dogs are safe and back where they belong so that has to be a good outcome in the big scheme of things


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I found a small puppy on a mountain while walking my dogs a few years ago I brought the puppy home rang round the local vets and a vet in Cardiff said it sounds like a puppy we know who has just had her last puppy jabs so he phoned the owner and yes it was his puppy so I drove down to the vets which was a good hour away sat there in the waiting room
In comes the owner with a little girl takes the puppy not even a thank you


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Yesterday morning my eldest was just on his way out when he shouted me to come outside. There were two of the cutest little dogs running around on the street (Chorkies! as it happens lol). We rarely get dogs straying on our estate, the dogs looked well cared for but didn't have any collars on. They were friendly so easy to catch, it didn't cross my mind to call the dog warden at this stage (not even sure there is one available on a Saturday?). With a dog tucked under each arm I preceded to find their owner. I hadn't even got to the end of the street when a man & woman came running over to me lol. Apparently the dogs were being looked after while their son was on holiday & had bolted out of the door. Apparently they were going back home later that day!. The couple were so happy & relieved to get them back. I didn't think twice handing them over - they were obviously 'theirs' & well cared for. I have called the dog warden to take a dog rather than take it back to its owner before though. It was to teach a neglectful ex neighbour a lesson who's poor boxer was always getting out of the garden. Mind you her 1st boxer got run over so if that didn't teach her a lesson i don't know what will.

I think you have to just use your judgement & perhaps the finder of these two dogs had good reason not to trust the owner.


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## Guest (May 31, 2015)

I agree there is probably more to the story. 
It’s a very unpopulated, rural community out here and we all know each other and our animals fairly well, if I know the animal, I simply return them (this often includes my neighbor’s escape artist mini donkey.) But I can definitely see how in more populates communities where people don’t know each other so well, that folks might be cautious about making sure the dog ends up with the correct person.

When I’m out with the dogs I always carry their paperwork in my wallet and have a spare copy in one of my training bags. In the US you have to have proof of rabies vaccination with you at all times, and as good as mine are at loosing their collars and/or tags, I like to make sure we have a spare with us. Their paperwork has their call name, a description of the dog, my and OH’s name as owners, and the tag number which is easily searchable in the database.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I actually think it's quite refreshing to hear, the finder knew the law, acted promptly and sensibly. 

I would have been livid if my dogs had been handed over to someone else claiming to be their owner. 

However, I would have thought the dog warden needed some evidence of ownership, not sure about anyone else's dog but Diz greets everyone with the same enthusiasm lol


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Oh jeez... Skip would be in his element. What an adventure! 

Skip doesn't wear a collar or tags in the house, so if he got out and was picked up by the dog warden, that's just tough. I have no issue with that and I'd pay up because it's my fault ultimately. 

Again, it also comes down to common sense. If I rocked up at someone's house and Skip was in their garden, I have no doubt he'd be happy to see me. I also have hundreds of pictures of him on my phone (which I would obviously have with me). If they still didn't want to give me him back, well, that's their perogative. I'd wait on the dog warden arriving though  
I'd sit outside their house, talking to my dog and wait


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Isn't the situation Mr and Mrs Smith found themselves in, more about a result of the type of life we lead now? I came to the rather awful conclusion that I knew more people on a forum than I did in my street a few years ago and set out to try to amend that. Molly has escaped twice from our garden and our neighbours knew it was her (it was they who had left the gate open… enough said!) and returned her (though she does have a collar and tag on whenever she's outside and she's chipped). If the person who saved the dogs knew Mr and Mrs Smith, maybe yes he/she could have returned them but otherwise, yes I think dog warden was the right thing to do. Though the kennels should have checked too - I don't know what standard policy is on that but think it's a bit alarming!


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## Guest (May 31, 2015)

Am I the only one with dogs who won’t go away? 
If my dogs “got out” they’d stand there at the door waiting for me to let them back in. 
Last time I “lost” Bates, he was in the house, I just didn’t know someone had let him in, I went outside to call him and he didn’t come, so I’m walking around outside calling, and he’s standing there in the doorway looking at me like I’ve finally lost it. Darned dog....


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Am I the only one with dogs who won't go away?
> If my dogs "got out" they'd stand there at the door waiting for me to let them back in.
> Last time I "lost" Bates, he was in the house, I just didn't know someone had let him in, I went outside to call him and he didn't come, so I'm walking around outside calling, and he's standing there in the doorway looking at me like I've finally lost it. Darned dog....


Yep Clover's the same LOL


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Am I the only one with dogs who won't go away?
> If my dogs "got out" they'd stand there at the door waiting for me to let them back in.
> Last time I "lost" Bates, he was in the house, I just didn't know someone had let him in, I went outside to call him and he didn't come, so I'm walking around outside calling, and he's standing there in the doorway looking at me like I've finally lost it. Darned dog....


The furthest Skip has ever ran, is to the end of the street! He's never gone any further. My only worry is that next door's lovely elderly cat is sitting on their doorstep... 
So no, I don't think you're the only one, but I don't want to jinx it


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Am I the only one with dogs who won't go away?
> If my dogs "got out" they'd stand there at the door waiting for me to let them back in.
> Last time I "lost" Bates, he was in the house, I just didn't know someone had let him in, I went outside to call him and he didn't come, so I'm walking around outside calling, and he's standing there in the doorway looking at me like I've finally lost it. Darned dog....


Lol, if the gate blew open and Wolf was outside he used to bark to let us know!


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Am I the only one with dogs who won't go away?
> If my dogs "got out" they'd stand there at the door waiting for me to let them back in.
> Last time I "lost" Bates, he was in the house, I just didn't know someone had let him in, I went outside to call him and he didn't come, so I'm walking around outside calling, and he's standing there in the doorway looking at me like I've finally lost it. Darned dog....


Nope certainly not the only one... My staff Diesel got out the side gate and was found pawing and barking at the front door lol!

As for the OP's question. I'd probably be really annoyed at who found them not believing me and allowing the warden to take the dogs... but I know for sure I'd be even more annoyed, upset, and worried if the finder handed them to someone I didn't know claiming to be the owners.. So personally I think the finder did the right thing.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Blitz said:


> So what is proof of ownership. A microchip is not proof of ownership. Taking into account that a dog is property I suppose the only proof of ownership would be a receipt and a description. So really none of us probably could prove our dogs are ours. I really cannot believe that anyone on here would think it the right thing to do if they could not get their own dogs back in this situation. How many people on here do not leave collars on their dogs and even think it is wrong to do so. So dogs get out of the garden, someone down the road takes them in and they are lost to you. Come on, let's have some common sense.
> 
> For heavens sake Inca - why on earth would everyone want to own a scanner and how many people could put their hands on the microchip records and how many dogs are not vaccinated - get real. Now of course, once the new law comes in and dogs have to be microchipped it would be a brilliant way to police it and fine owners for not having their dogs chipped - but that will never happen, far too much work for someone.


Not everyone does and if you happen to own a car, and be able to easily access a vet or dog wardens office I don't suppose it would enter your head that it could be helpful to have one.

However surely most people have had to take their dogs to a vet at some point in its life and could ring their vet to ask them what the dogs microchip number was? ..as they've lost their dog and need the number as proof its theirs. When JJ was chipped the vet had a sticker with the numbers on and stuck it to the top of his puppy pack/vaccination record. Even with Inca I was given a little fold out card with her vaccinations and a little diagram at the top of where the chip was and the chip number (handwritten) and that was 14 years ago from a small local rescue. (I kept the card somewhere safe, each dog has its own folder in my filebox) so it can be updated every year. It's not too challenging to do this surely?

Even if the dog is not vaccinated surely a person has a record of their chip number somewhere or could get it if they contacted the chip company/breeder/rescue etc?

IF people didn't leave their dogs unsupervised in their gardens in the first place they wouldn't be able to get out, or run out if someone opened the gate, or let them off when they have an unreliable recall, or even let them off and then spend the entire walk on their phone, not watching where the dog is or which other people/dogs its harrassing!!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Blitz said:


> But we are not talking about the warden just coming quickly and collecting them, that is great if they were called. We are talking about the owners having already claimed and found their dogs. Can you honestly say that if your dogs got out without collars on (and the chip is totally irrelevant in this situation) you would just go away and think it ok that the warden took your dogs away and you had to drive 30 miles to get them (no doubt after a lot of phoning round and panicking as to where they were ) when all the warden had to do was wait a few minutes for you to come back again. And I reiterate, the chip is not proof of ownership, the whole thing of returning dogs is done on trust and the dog's reaction to the owner.


My dog is chipped so it would just be a matter of scanning him..If I had this exact situation then I would accept that my dog got out without tags, yes it is annoying that I couldn't just pick my dog up from the people that found him, but it would be my fault because my dog got out.

FWIW my old Staffy did escape once, but because she was chipped the warden bought her straight back to me without charging anything because she was chipped and he didn't have to kennel her.

I know that legally the chip isn't proof of ownership, but an up to date chip means the warden will return the dog without kenneling them if they can contact the owners.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

What does FWIW mean?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Hmmm see now for me the microchip would be very much proof of ownership? Its on vet records registered to me and my address, its on all their KC papers & IKC registered to me and my address, its on all their insurance docs registered to me and my address, on MyKC registered to me and my address ( cept Eric atm because he is not KC registered yet) and finally the only time they are useful is the dogs license which has microchip numbers registered along with me and my address! So that microchip is pretty useful to me.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> What does FWIW mean?


For What It's Worth


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> IF people didn't leave their dogs unsupervised in their gardens in the first place they wouldn't be able to get out, or run out if someone opened the gate, or let them off when they have an unreliable recall, or even let them off and then spend the entire walk on their phone, not watching where the dog is or which other people/dogs its harrassing!!


Rubbish. Accidents can happen even to the best of owners. It might minimise lost dogs but it's not going to stop it happening.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Hmmm see now for me the microchip would be very much proof of ownership? Its on vet records registered to me and my address, its on all their KC papers & IKC registered to me and my address, its on all their insurance docs registered to me and my address, on MyKC registered to me and my address ( cept Eric atm because he is not KC registered yet) and finally the only time they are useful is the dogs license which has microchip numbers registered along with me and my address! So that microchip is pretty useful to me.


And yet legally it is not considered proof of ownership apparently.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

An interesting development over the last year or so, is that our village has a facebook page and on occasions there has been lost dogs advertised and dogs seen roaming or found, along with cats too. It has been quite a useful tool and I would probably look or post on there nowadays if I found a dog.

When we first moved here about 23 years ago, my ten year old son found a dog wandering and bought him home. Luckily he had a collar and id, so phoned the very grateful owner. We've remained friends with them every since.

I know id tags can fall off collars easily, had that happen many times over the years, so have one of the slider tags fitted to Isla's collar. It's less likely that her collar would fall off, not saying it couldn't possibly happen. Consequently her collar stays on her 24/7, not prepared to risk losing her.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Sarah1983 said:


> And yet legally it is not considered proof of ownership apparently.


I wonder if that will change once chipping is compulsory?
I mean whats the point in making it compulsory if they still don't prove ownership by law?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I can't understand Mr Smith walking off once he'd located the dogs and leaving them with complete strangers. After all, he only had their word that the dog warden had been called.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Rubbish. Accidents can happen even to the best of owners. It might minimise lost dogs but it's not going to stop it happening.


I've managed to never lose mine despite being deaf! Maybe I'm just more cautious as a result and don't leave the dogs outside on their own all day assuming I would hear if someone opened the back gate or the dog jumped over the fence cos it saw a cat next door. My back gate has a lock and the dogs are never in the garden unsupervised. They aren't let off unless I'm in an area where I can see clearly in all directions (such as open playing field) for quite a distance when another person/dog has come on. I always make sure they're within my sight. The front door is kept locked so people (such as neighbours) can't just walk in. They have knock or ring the doorbell and wait..so does window cleaner and gardener to be let into the back garden and dog are brought in if they were playing out, so I can unlock back gate while windows or garden is done then locked again and dogs let back out.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> I wonder if that will change once chipping is compulsory?
> I mean whats the point in making it compulsory if they still don't prove ownership by law?


I wondered this too!! what about the case of the mans dog who went missing and was claimed by someone else? He was contacted by the chip company to confirm if he wanted to change the dogs address but still couldn't get his dog back even though he was the NAMED person on the chip???

surely if you have yours dogs chip number on stuff like vaccinations records or vet can confirm you are the owner of that dog that is proof?


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

If the dogs had been claimed by someone else, who wasn't the owner, the person who handed them over could have been in all sorts of trouble, they did the right thing phoning the dog warden to take official responsibility for them. One of my spaniels is completely mine, the other would go to anyone who whistled and his tail would be going crazy the whole time. I can understand not handing the dogs over to the first person who claimed them, but ordering the alleged owner of your property seems a bit of an overreaction - but there may be more than meets the eye. Maybe Mr Smith in his relief at finding his dogs was angry/rude he couldn't have them immediately, and the other person rightly felt he should "do it by the book" if he couldn't learn some manners. Or the warden himself said he had to return the dogs through official channels. Maybe that person was just fed up of other peoples' dogs wandering around loose and had had enough of knocking on doors himself. I know I've got a bit annoyed when I've returned a neighbouring farmer's dog from our fields for the umpteenth time, last time I rang to say I'd got him they were on holiday in France, could I "just pop him back (2 miles), somebody should be around". I also remember hitting the roof at finding someone had found and buried one of our cats (which was chipped but didn't have a collar). I made all sorts of nasty comments about having the common sense to phone a vet to see if it was missing etc, realised afterwards what a bitch I'd been and went back to apologise. But relief can quickly turn to anger, like the parent who smacks their child for running across the road, and it's very possible Mr Smith was out of order in the way he tried to get his dogs back. For the sake of neighbourly harmony I'd advise him to go back and apologise for any offence/inconveinience caused (we don't know the finder wasn't made late for an appointment by dealing with someone else's dogs), and to thank him for not allowing the dogs to roam further, or taken by someone else to sell on.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/advice-needed-missing-cat-found-but-finders-wont-return.400341/
I know it's about cats, but it seems in this case the microchip is proof of ownership and why you shouldn't just hand an animal over to anyone.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> I've managed to never lose mine despite being deaf! Maybe I'm just more cautious as a result and don't leave the dogs outside on their own all day assuming I would hear if someone opened the back gate or the dog jumped over the fence cos it saw a cat next door. My back gate has a lock and the dogs are never in the garden unsupervised. They aren't let off unless I'm in an area where I can see clearly in all directions (such as open playing field) for quite a distance when another person/dog has come on. I always make sure they're within my sight. The front door is kept locked so people (such as neighbours) can't just walk in. They have knock or ring the doorbell and wait..so does window cleaner and gardener to be let into the back garden and dog are brought in if they were playing out, so I can unlock back gate while windows or garden is done then locked again and dogs let back out.


My old Staffy that escaped ate through a metal window frame...She had never attempted to escape before but we had an attempted break in which spooked her.
Accidents can happen to anyone.


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## Guest (May 31, 2015)

IncaThePup said:


> I've managed to never lose mine despite being deaf!


And I've managed to never lose mine despite having children. So?
Some dogs are escape artists, some dogs live to roam, some dogs get on a scent and go and then can't find their way back, some dogs run when they get spooked... Accidents happen, and they can happen to anyone. If you haven't had one, count yourself lucky, not superior


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

My parents were looking after my dogs. When they heard me come home my mum unlocked the front door. I'd parked my car to open my garage and just as I was getting back in my car I noticed both dogs by my feet. I didn't even know my oldest dog (can't blame the yorkie!) knew how to open the door, or that he could reach the handle. He must have jumped up, which if you knew him is a feat in itself. Luckily they were both so excited to see me that I scooped my yorkie up and called my older dog in to the house. I'd never say it can never happen.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

PawsandFeathers said:


> How silly the laws are their to protect us heaven forbid if a fibber dog fighter should claim those poor dogs and they should die because the finder decided they would take their word for it how irrasponsible would that be?
> 
> *The finder totally did the right thing the dog warden was in the wrong and open himself up to a can of worms he is not doing his job propperly plain and simple the dogs maybe the owners but it was their responsability to chip and tag their dogs.*
> 
> ...


Not sure I quite understand the bit in bold above - how was the warden not doing his job properly/in the wrong? If a member of the public calls the dog warden saying they have found two dogs without tags on then the warden has a responsibility to go and get them. We have no idea how long Mr Smith was gone for, do you think the warden should have to hang about waiting for owners to arrive when they may have other calls waiting. Also what do you mean by "lots of wardens sell dogs on now"

I've called the dog warden a couple of times. The most recent was when we found a dog out on the heath with no tag on its collar. We waited with it for ages to see if any owner appeared and asked every other walker we saw if they recognized the dog. Eventually we had to take it home with us but we were due to go out and my own dogs would not tolerate him coming in the house so we rang the warden who came promptly, did a quick scan for a chip then took the dog to the local kennels. It was claimed and lived not that far from us, had it been tagged I would have taken it back home but as it wasn't I'm happy I did the right thing.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

So if a microchip certificate doesn't constitute proof of ownership, what does? A receipt is just a piece of paper, and whilst it could identify breed, it probably wouldn't prove which individual dog it was. I have photos from early days (birth in the cases of Fly and Flossie), their agility record books (Ziggy is identified by a photo in hers) and KC activity registration certificates, and a load of records on computer - things like Kite's hip scores. 

I do have a scanner, and could use that to link my dogs to their paperwork. I originally got it to use as an agility measurer, but wouldn't be without it. Checking my dogs' chips are still working (Ziggy is on her 3rd), scanning lost dogs I've found, and 2 cats I found killed by the road - none were chipped.


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

The rules are even if the owner can be identified but can't be contacted the dog must be taken to the kennels to be cared for. The warden can't just leave the dog in the back of the van until the owner can be traced.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

I am sure I could prove ownership of my dog in this situation simply by demonstrating that I know the Dogs name, that she does what she is told, come, sit etc and that there is an obvious bond between the Dog and me.

That said she wouldn't run off if the gate was open anyway.

Why would the Warden take the dogs away from the Village if the people looking after the dogs told the Warden people claiming ownership had called to claim their dogs? This whole scenario seems a bit odd to me.


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## Guest (May 31, 2015)

cbcdesign said:


> I am sure I could prove ownership of my dog in this situation simply by demonstrating that I know the Dogs name, that she does what she is told, come, sit etc and that there is an obvious bond between the Dog and me.


If that were the case, then anyone could prove ownership of one of my dogs, he will work for anyone, and he's trained enough that he complies with verbal cues from all sorts of people (I really should get him an acting gig...  )
Many of my friends dogs, or dogs we train with will work for me, or any of the other trainers in our group.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> I am sure I could prove ownership of my dog in this situation simply by demonstrating that I know the Dogs name, that she does what she is told, come, sit etc and that there is an obvious bond between the Dog and me.
> 
> That said she wouldn't run off if the gate was open anyway.
> 
> Why would the Warden take the dogs away from the Village if the people looking after the dogs told the Warden people claiming ownership had called to claim their dogs? This whole scenario seems a bit odd to me.


I'd be buggered then.

My dogs ignores me, acts like i dont exist, and reacts like i torture him on a regular basis if i touch him. Plus he's deaf, so no name calling.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

ouesi said:


> If that were the case, then anyone could prove ownership of one of my dogs, he will work for anyone, and he's trained enough that he complies with verbal cues from all sorts of people (I really should get him an acting gig...  )
> Many of my friends dogs, or dogs we train with will work for me, or any of the other trainers in our group.


Yeah I guess Duchess being a GSD does mean she is aloof around strangers like many shepherds, this would help in this situation.

I guess your dog would have ended up with the Warden then Nonnie


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

cbcdesign said:


> I am sure I could prove ownership of my dog in this situation simply by demonstrating that I know the Dogs name, that she does what she is told, come, sit etc and that there is an obvious bond between the Dog and me.


Well if that's all it takes pretty much anyone could "prove ownership" of my dog since he'll answer to anything and follow cues given by anyone.



IncaThePup said:


> I've managed to never lose mine despite being deaf! Maybe I'm just more cautious as a result and don't leave the dogs outside on their own all day assuming I would hear if someone opened the back gate or the dog jumped over the fence cos it saw a cat next door. My back gate has a lock and the dogs are never in the garden unsupervised. They aren't let off unless I'm in an area where I can see clearly in all directions (such as open playing field) for quite a distance when another person/dog has come on. I always make sure they're within my sight. The front door is kept locked so people (such as neighbours) can't just walk in. They have knock or ring the doorbell and wait..so does window cleaner and gardener to be let into the back garden and dog are brought in if they were playing out, so I can unlock back gate while windows or garden is done then locked again and dogs let back out.


Hell of a lot of assumptions going on there! Anyone can have a dog get loose no matter what precautions they take, something I was incredibly aware and paranoid of with owning a dog who was a danger. An accident can happen to anyone. Equipment can fail on anyone. Any dog, no matter how reliable, can have a brain fart and blow off recall or get spooked and run.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

I personally don't think the warden did anything wrong and nor do I thnk the people who found the dog did. 

My dogs don't wear collars or tags at home (ruins the fur) but if they did escape it would be my own fault really that if found I had to go to the rescue to pick them up.

As for not leaving a dog unattended in a garden....on nice days the back door into the garden is always open so the dogs will move freely between the garden and house. Yep they could escape, but they could escape with me in the garden wth them! I have made sure that to the best of my ability the garden is escape proof and that's all I can do.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> Well if that's all it takes pretty much anyone could "prove ownership" of my dog since he'll answer to anything and follow cues given by anyone.
> 
> Hell of a lot of assumptions going on there! Anyone can have a dog get loose no matter what precautions they take, something I was incredibly aware and paranoid of with owning a dog who was a danger. An accident can happen to anyone. Equipment can fail on anyone. Any dog, no matter how reliable, can have a brain fart and blow off recall or get spooked and run.


Well said.

I lost Alfie miles from home after he slipped his harness after being ganged up on by dachsunds. Being deaf he just put his foot down and went. He ended up covering close to 4 miles in the middle of the Surrey Hills, all by himself. Thankfully, a jogger who had spotted me screaming my lungs out and crying, took a spare lead from me, and found him on her run home.

I also lost him behind a large bush too.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Well said.
> 
> I lost Alfie miles from home after he slipped his harness after being ganged up on by dachsunds. Being deaf he just put his foot down and went. He ended up covering close to 4 miles in the middle of the Surrey Hills, all by himself. Thankfully, a jogger who had spotted me screaming my lungs out and crying, took a spare lead from me, and found him on her run home.
> 
> I also lost him behind a large bush too.


It's horrible when you lose them, I really panic when it happens. Glad someone helped you find him! I lost Spen for 45 minutes once. His recall was and is generally reliable, it was an area we knew well, could see for a good distance, I was paying attention. He just took off and there was sod all I could do about it. Still no idea why to this day but later found out that hubbys boss lost his dog in the exact same area half an hour earlier so definitely something going on. Neither dog prone to taking off, one neutered and no interest in bitches in season so highly unlikely to be that. And neither ever did it again.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

My lot dont wear collars in the house, the jangling tags would annoy the hell out of me (and the dogs no doubt) and it leaves marks in their coat, so if they escaped they wouldnt have any visible ID (though they are chipped). I doubt they would escape anyway, they arent wanderers and dont even leave the perimeter of the open plan side lawn.

If I had been the person finding the dog in my garden it would've been a huge inconvenience for me so I probably would call the dog warden asap if I didnt know who the dog belonged to and it had no tag. I have dogs that wouldnt accept a strange one on their property so I would need to find somewhere else safe and secure to leave it, but where? I havent got the time or inclination to baby sit a random, strange dog either. However, if somebody turned up at my door claiming to be the owners I wouldnt hand the dog straight over, but would give them a certain amount of time to come back to me with proof before I called the dog warden (if I hadnt already done so). I dont think the dogs reaction is anything to go by either because one of mine wouldnt even pay me any attention, he's not a demonstrative dog and generally saves that for other people anyway.

Had I been the owner trying to claim my dog back I would either return with proof (if the finder didnt look shifty), or, wait until the dog warden arrived and deal with them at the time. If my dogs got taken to kennels then so be it, a tough lesson learned, and I wouldnt blame either the finder, or the dog warden.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> Well if that's all it takes pretty much anyone could "prove ownership" of my dog since he'll answer to anything and follow cues given by anyone.
> 
> Hell of a lot of assumptions going on there! Anyone can have a dog get loose no matter what precautions they take, something I was incredibly aware and paranoid of with owning a dog who was a danger. An accident can happen to anyone. Equipment can fail on anyone. Any dog, no matter how reliable, can have a brain fart and blow off recall or get spooked and run.


Yes, and that's why there are procedures in place, for people who find them. And the procedure is to call the dog warden (if you don't know the dogs or owners personally). And the dog warden's procedure is to take the dog(s) to the kennels and wait for the owner to claim them.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I would have expected them to at least mention to the Dog Warden that a gentleman had been buy claiming they was his dogs, and to perhaps wait for his return with Mrs Smith before carting the dogs off. But sounds like the guy who contained the dogs was going 'by the book' so to speak.

We found a Mini Schnauzer wandering around my parent's road a couple of summers ago. Despite not living there, I leashed the dog up and went knocking around the neighbours to ask if they knew who the dog belonged to. Nobody did. I walked around the fields next door, asked other dog walkers, but after a good hour or more no one knew anything. It was just getting to the stage I thought I'd have to phone the dog warden, when this girl caught up to us and said he was her dog. I didn't even think to ask for proof of ownership. The dog greeted her and they went on their way. I'd personally always try to locate an owner beforehand.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

We don't have dog wardens in Hungary, but the legislation is the same whether it's you as an individual, your car or your dog. You must carry the relevant documents with you at all times. If my dogs and I go out in the car for example, in my handbag you'll find my ID and passport, driving license and insurance for the car as well as the dog's pet passports which contains the names of the breeder, owner and vet. Don't half make my handbag heavy carting that lot around all the time!


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> I would have expected them to at least mention to the Dog Warden that a gentleman had been buy claiming they was his dogs, and to perhaps wait for his return with Mrs Smith before carting the dogs off. But sounds like the guy who contained the dogs was going 'by the book .


Well quite!

From the OP:
"Mr & Mrs Smith had to contact the kennels and pay a fine of over £100 and drive a 30 mile round trip in order to be reunited with their dogs. The kennels didn't ask to see any proof of ownership, and neither dog is micro chipped but the kennel manager was happy to accept the dog's joyous greeting when reunited with Mr & Mrs Smith"

Well thankfully the Kennel manager was able to recognise the relationship that Mr & Mrs Smith had with the dogs. I guess the man looking after the runaways either lacked that ability or simply didn't care and was a bloody minded jobs worth.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> I would have expected them to at least mention to the Dog Warden that a gentleman had been buy claiming they was his dogs, and to perhaps wait for his return with Mrs Smith before carting the dogs off. But sounds like the guy who contained the dogs was going 'by the book' so to speak.
> 
> We found a Mini Schnauzer wandering around my parent's road a couple of summers ago. Despite not living there, I leashed the dog up and went knocking around the neighbours to ask if they knew who the dog belonged to. Nobody did. I walked around the fields next door, asked other dog walkers, but after a good hour or more no one knew anything. It was just getting to the stage I thought I'd have to phone the dog warden, when this girl caught up to us and said he was her dog. I didn't even think to ask for proof of ownership. The dog greeted her and they went on their way. I'd personally always try to locate an owner beforehand.


I would too, I think being so far from town and knowing the nearest kennel they took them to would be well over 20 miles away. I can understand it being an easier option if someone lives in a town/city with a good dog wardens and kennels. It just worries me as ONE of the other kennels where the nearest town would use have been interviewed by press before (many years back) and had admitted some dogs didn't get the full 7 days if there were too many coming in. Any unchipped, no tags, disabled dogs or elderly, even ones considered 'too ugly' to be adopted never got further than the room at the end whereas the cute and fluffy ones got passed along to rescues and rehomed prettty quickly.

I'd rather know IF one of mine ever 'run off' that someone local had taken them in whilst they tried to find out who they belonged to. I hope most from this village would just take them down to the village vet who would recognise my two straight away! The Dog Warden wouldn't know them as I've lived here 8 yrs now and never seen a dog warden van round here!..too much hassle for them to come out here to 'patrol', unless someone specifically reported a lost dog that needed collecting.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Dogloverlou said:


> I would have expected them to at least mention to the Dog Warden that a gentleman had been buy claiming they was his dogs, and to perhaps wait for his return with Mrs Smith before carting the dogs off. But sounds like the guy who contained the dogs was going 'by the book' so to speak.


It's quite possible they did mention it. But the dog warden has to answer to his superiors, which means s/he has to follow procedure. Procedures are created for a reason, usually based on previous cases. The finders and the warden acted just as they should. As did the owners, in complying and learning something.


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## freckles (May 8, 2008)

I think the finder did the correct thing, nothing wrong with them calling the dog warden, not everyone has time to go knocking on doors to see who they belonged too, the dog warden was wrong though and should of asked for ID, just because a dog is pleased to see you, doesn't mean your the owner, mine would run and wag their tail at anyone..

lesson learned for the owners though, shame they wasn't responsible to have ID on the dogs in the first place,


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Funny how people are blaming the finder and dog warden for all the hassle...My question would be why didn't the owner hang around for the warden to turn up?
How were the finder and warden supposed to know that the owner would return? How do we know that the warden didn't hang around for a bit?
After all we don't have a clue how long the owner took to go back


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I was shocked, I would never think to challenge someone looking for a lost dog,


StormyThai said:


> Funny how people are blaming the finder and dog warden for all the hassle...My question would be why didn't the owner hang around for the warden to turn up?
> How were the finder and warden supposed to know that the owner would return? How do we know that the warden didn't hang around for a bit?
> After all we don't have a clue how long the owner took to go back


I don't know how long it took for Mr Smith to locate Mrs Smith and return to the finder's house. I do know that neither had picked up their mobile phone in the panic to go look for the dogs. Mr Smith said he had never spoken to the finder before and the finder was hostile from the get go. they have a large property with substantial grounds and he was ordered off their property immediately. The finder never told the dog warden a possible owner had been found according to the information Mr and Mrs Smith got.

That is all the information I know.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

metaldog said:


> I was shocked, I would never think to challenge someone looking for a lost dog,
> 
> I don't know how long it took for Mr Smith to locate Mrs Smith and return to the finder's house. I do know that neither had picked up their mobile phone in the panic to go look for the dogs. Mr Smith said he had never spoken to the finder before and the finder was hostile from the get go. they have a large property with substantial grounds and he was ordered off their property immediately. The finder never told the dog warden a possible owner had been found according to the information Mr and Mrs Smith got.
> 
> That is all the information I know.


Ok the finder was being a bit of a jobs worth maybe, but they still did nothing wrong IMO


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> I wonder if that will change once chipping is compulsory?
> I mean whats the point in making it compulsory if they still don't prove ownership by law?


 No it will not change as, like cars, dogs can be owned by one person/entitiy and another can be the keeper.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

It's a shame that the finder was so hostile, but maybe, seeing as they lived on a large estate, they had strays fairly often and were fed up? We don't know the whole story but I don't blame the finder or dog warden. If it was my dogs I'd certainly have photos on my phone and hang around for the warden to turn up.

Our old prt used to disappear down the fields every six months due to next door (field with horses) having an unspayed bitch that they allowed to roam not only ib their field but ours too. We'd only realise after he'd done it once or twice, and then had to try and remember to only take him down the fields on lead, and not let him out of our sight when in the garden (whilst the bitch still roamed ). He used to either come back after being shooed away, or end up at the pub at the bottom of the fields who would ring up (an excuse to visit the pub ).

I'd personally try and find the owner, but wouldn't go out of my way. I'd check the field next door, and then the pub, but I live on a country road and know my immediate neighbour dogs so it would have had to cone from down the village. I'd post on Facebook and check in case it had been reported as lost, and phone the warden. If I could keep it on my property I would, but that wouldn't necessarily be possible.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I can't see either what the Dog Warden did wrong. Two loose dogs, no ID tags and not microchipped. What should he have done, left them to roam?

Two Jack Russells once turned up on my garden, neither of them was wearing a collar. I rung the Dog Warden as I was afraid once they left my garden, they could end up on a road or in a field of sheep.

As it happens, the Dog Warden recognised them as he had picked them up once before. He returned them to the owner with a stern warning that if he picked them up again, he would take them to the Shelter.


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> No it will not change as, like cars, dogs can be owned by one person/entitiy and another can be the keeper.


V5's for dogs.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

metaldog said:


> I was shocked, I would never think to challenge someone looking for a lost dog,
> 
> I don't know how long it took for Mr Smith to locate Mrs Smith and return to the finder's house. I do know that neither had picked up their mobile phone in the panic to go look for the dogs. Mr Smith said he had never spoken to the finder before and the finder was hostile from the get go. they have a large property with substantial grounds and he was ordered off their property immediately. The finder never told the dog warden a possible owner had been found according to the information Mr and Mrs Smith got.
> 
> That is all the information I know.


Says it all really. The Warden sounds like he or she was simply acting responsibly, the finder on the other hand sound like a complete jerk to be honest.


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## PawsandFeathers (May 23, 2015)

Sarah H said:


> It's a shame that the finder was so hostile, but maybe, seeing as they lived on a large estate, they had strays fairly often and were fed up? We don't know the whole story but I don't blame the finder or dog warden. If it was my dogs I'd certainly have photos on my phone and hang around for the warden to turn up.
> *
> Our old prt used to disappear down the fields every six months due to next door (field with horses) having an unspayed bitch that they allowed to roam not only ib their field but ours too. We'd only realise after he'd done it once or twice, and then had to try and remember to only take him down the fields on lead, and not let him out of our sight when in the garden (whilst the bitch still roamed ). He used to either come back after being shooed away, or end up at the pub at the bottom of the fields who would ring up (an excuse to visit the pub ).*
> _
> ...


They weren't hostile they followed the law!


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

PawsandFeathers said:


> The warden was down right stupid some dogs LOVE everyone which he probably knew I would still asked for some sort of proof


My comment which you have quoted was about the Warden taking the dogs back to the pound from the hostile keepers. The giving back of the dogs to the owners without proof is debatable. Evidently the way they reacted when greeting the Smiths was evidence enough for an experienced dog person to accept that they were the owners and you or I don't know if these dogs were the uber lovable around everybody type of dog or otherwise do we?


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## PawsandFeathers (May 23, 2015)

cbcdesign said:


> My comment which you have quoted was about the Warden taking the dogs back to the pound from the hostile keepers. The giving back of the dogs to the owners without proof is debatable. Evidently the way they reacted when greeting the Smiths was evidence enough for an experienced dog person to accept that they were the owners and you or I don't know if these dogs were the uber lovable around everybody type of dog or otherwise do we?


Thats kind of the issue I have with the wardens choice they were still failing their job in not asking for some sort of proof or even checking for a chip. Plenty of dogs love everyone if it were me I would not have given the dogs back on that alone I would have done my job propperly and scanned for a chip.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

metaldog said:


> .......Mr Smith said he had never spoken to the finder before and the finder was hostile from the get go. they have a large property with substantial grounds and he was ordered off their property immediately. The finder never told the dog warden a possible owner had been found according to the information Mr and Mrs Smith got.
> 
> That is all the information I know.





PawsandFeathers said:


> They weren't hostile they followed the law!


Yes, the finder was hostile. But yes was also following the law. No need to be nasty to the (possible ) owners though.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

PawsandFeathers said:


> Thats kind of the issue I have with the wardens choice they were still failing their job in not asking for some sort of proof or even checking for a chip. Plenty of dogs love everyone if it were me I would not have given the dogs back on that alone I would have done my job propperly and scanned for a chip.


Apparently, these two dogs weren't chipped. How do you know they weren't scanned?

I would imagine it wasn't the Dog Warden who gave them back to the owner, but the Owner/Manager of the Kennel.

What would you have done in view of the fact that the dogs weren't chipped?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

-sits on hands, sits on hands-

Nope, I will NOT be drawn in!


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

PawsandFeathers said:


> Thats kind of the issue I have with the wardens choice they were still failing their job in not asking for some sort of proof or even checking for a chip. Plenty of dogs love everyone if it were me I would not have given the dogs back on that alone I would have done my job propperly and scanned for a chip.


Chip implant database information is not always up to date and not 100% reliable as a means of proving who owns a dog. The Warden and colleagues assessed the dogs behaviour around the Smiths to make a judgement and acted accordingly. That was all they could do under the circumstances.


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## PawsandFeathers (May 23, 2015)

Sarah H said:


> Yes, the finder was hostile. But yes was also following the law. No need to be nasty to the (possible ) owners though.


They kept their dogs for safety thats not being hostile thats being sensible.


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## PawsandFeathers (May 23, 2015)

cbcdesign said:


> Chip implant database information is not always up to date and not 100% reliable as a means of proving who owns a dog. *The Warden and colleagues assessed the dogs behaviour around the Smiths to make a judgement and acted accordingly*. That was all they could do under the circumstances.


Then thats still the foult of the owners!
Responsible owners chip and tag their dogs and keep the info up to date if they dont anything that happens after is out of their hands.

Thats a bad assessment its the wardens duty to check for a chip if they dont their failing in their job requirements to


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

PawsandFeathers said:


> They kept their dogs for safety thats not being hostile thats being sensible.


He ordered the owner off his land and didn't tell the Warden that the Smiths were claiming ownership of the dogs. That's sounds pretty hostile to me!


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

PawsandFeathers said:


> Then thats still the foult of the owners!
> Responsible owners chip and tag their dogs and keep the info up to date if they dont anything that happens after is out of their hands.
> 
> Thats a bad assessment its the wardens duty to check for a chip if they dont their failing in their job requirements to


Dogs are rehomed but chip details are not always updated. Yes somebody is at fault but the point stands that chip data is not the reliable proof of ownership you think it is.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

PawsandFeathers said:


> Then thats still the foult of the owners!
> Responsible owners chip and tag their dogs and keep the info up to date if they dont anything that happens after is out of their hands.
> 
> Thats a bad assessment its the wardens duty to check for a chip if they dont their failing in their job requirements to


I see, so in YOUR opinion anyone who decides not to have their dogs microchipped is not a responsible owner?

What about those people who made a conscious decision to have their pets tattood instead as they did not want to inject a foreign body into their beloved pet?

These owners may have been irresponsible in not having legally compliant ID tags on their dogs, but please do not state that all owners who do not have their dogs chipped are also irresponsible.

Unfortunately next year it will become law and these owners will have no choice but to comply, prior to that time many of us preferred to have our dogs tattood.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> If it was me I would not have left the property ie I would have waited outside and use my mobile phone to contact my other half (if I had one)
> I would have phoned the dog warden myself (number is in my mobile phone)
> !





PawsandFeathers said:


> Makes me wonder why the owners did not take photo with them after they new were the dogs were or at the dog wardens kennel


I would hope all the photos on my phone of my dogs would be proof enough in the scenario of the OP 
Dogs do get out by accident, we have rescued a dog off the road near us twice and acquired more than one over the years while walking in the forest. By walking around for half an hour, on all occasions, we saw what was obviously a frantic owner searching for their dog and the fact the dogs were so relieved to see them was obvious too.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Sarah H said:


> It's a shame that the finder was so hostile, but maybe, seeing as they lived on a large estate, they had strays fairly often and were fed up? We don't know the whole story but I don't blame the finder or dog warden. If it was my dogs I'd certainly have photos on my phone and hang around for the warden to turn up.
> 
> Our old prt used to disappear down the fields every six months due to next door (field with horses) having an unspayed bitch that they allowed to roam not only ib their field but ours too. We'd only realise after he'd done it once or twice, and then had to try and remember to only take him down the fields on lead, and not let him out of our sight when in the garden (whilst the bitch still roamed ). He used to either come back after being shooed away, or end up at the pub at the bottom of the fields who would ring up (an excuse to visit the pub ).
> 
> I'd personally try and find the owner, but wouldn't go out of my way. I'd check the field next door, and then the pub, but I live on a country road and know my immediate neighbour dogs so it would have had to cone from down the village. I'd post on Facebook and check in case it had been reported as lost, and phone the warden. If I could keep it on my property I would, but that wouldn't necessarily be possible.


No they don't have strays all the time in the village, hardly ever in fact. A lot of the villagers keep livestock so any straying dogs would have the potential to cause mayhem and they'd have to stray a long way to get there. The finder does not have an an estate, it's just a house with a substantial plot of land attached to it which is surrounded by farm land. Obviously I only know the Smith's side of the story. I personally think the finder wanted to 'teach the Smith's a lesson' but that is only my opinion not a substantiated fact.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

At least they rang the dog warden then. If they were vindictive they could have kept quiet about it for a while and caused a load of upset. Maybe the way forward is for the Smiths to give them some flowers to thank them for looking after the dogs. That way the neighbour's won't feel any satisfaction for their actions if they are after something negative.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

I would have sat on the pavement until the dog warden arrived,explained the situation and hopefully taken my dogs home.

Im amazed the dog warden handed them over without proof of ownership.

This could be any of us. My dog wears a collar most of the time apart from when she has a bath. Then its no collar until she is dry. If she goes into the garden without it we go with her.
However a dog can be spooked even with the owner around.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Picklelily said:


> I would have sat on the pavement until the dog warden arrived,explained the situation and hopefully taken my dogs home.
> 
> Im amazed the dog warden handed them over without proof of ownership.
> 
> ...


Don't your dogs run TO you if they're spooked? cos mine do. If JJ steps on something awkwardly he runs back to me and I have to go look at what he stepped on or pretend I can see it from where I can get to ..and tell him it's ok..especially if I need him to go back and get his ball from that area. If it something while we're out he'll either nudge me if it something coming up behind us (like huge farm machinery on road - combine or something he doesn't see often) or try to get on my scooter footplate and sit between my legs.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I would not call that being spooked.

For me being spooked would for example be a firework going off and panicking dogs rarely go back to their owners they run, just like people do.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> I would not call that being spooked.
> 
> For me being spooked would for example be a firework going off and panicking dogs rarely go back to their owners they run, just like people do.


Too right.
One of previous retrievers was scared of loud bangs and her instinct was to run away from the noise as fast as she go. She just panicked and had no idea where she was heading.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> I would not call that being spooked.
> 
> For me being spooked would for example be a firework going off and panicking dogs rarely go back to their owners they run, just like people do.


Mine must not be bothered by them then. JJ's sat watching fireworks in the house and garden. I know some grouse shooting goes on in the woods by a big playing field and he's sometimes stopped and froze then looked round, if I can't see anyone or anything obvious in the field or passing on the road and its that time of year I just guess that's what he heard and tell him it won't hurt him and throw his ball again and he carries on.

Inca was more panicky at sounds as a younger dog .but again tended to 'freeze' first for a minute as if trying to work out what it was and whether she should run or not, so I'd say .'lets get home quick then' she'd run home *with* me. Think she must be going deaf in old age as she doesn't seem to react at all now and as slept though fireworks night and new years eve for the last couple of years.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

None of my dogs have ever been bothered by fireworks either or lots of other things that bother other dogs like thunderstorms etc but the fact is that some dogs are and often there is nothing you can do about it but try and ensure they are not in a position to hightail it somewhere.

The same applies to car accidents, many dogs are lost as they flee in panic from the road traffic accidents etc.

All dogs are different, some freeze, some fart about, some take flight.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> None of my dogs have ever been bothered by fireworks either or lots of other things that bother other dogs like thunderstorms etc but the fact is that some dogs are and often there is nothing you can do about it but try and ensure they are not in a position to hightail it somewhere.
> 
> The same applies to car accidents, many dogs are lost as they flee in panic from the road traffic accidents etc.
> 
> All dogs are different, some freeze, some fart about, some take flight.


This. So far if Spen gets spooked his reaction is to give a big booming bark and come rushing to me for protection. But if whatever spooked him were between me and him what would he do? If an aggressive dog were chasing him what would he do? If in his panic he couldn't find me?

An animal (or human) in a real panic is not rational, not thinking, they're just reacting. And no matter how well trained they are that can lead to them simply running.


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

I've been watching this thread with interest as, on Wednesday, I am going to become the slave of a cat I found in my garden a couple of weeks ago. I honestly believe I did everything I could to find his owner: ad in local paper; sent his details to all the local vets; had him scanned (no chip); put him all over FB; put his details on all the 'lost cat' sites; knocked on doors in four surrounding streets. He's been with the local rescue since I found him, as that would be an obvious place for a distraught owner to contact and they, too, have advertised, but to no avail. 

But.... suppose an owner comes forward in six weeks/six months/six years time? Quite worried about this now.... (also posted on relevant cat thread currently discussing same topic).


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> I would not call that being spooked.
> 
> For me being spooked would for example be a firework going off and panicking dogs rarely go back to their owners they run, just like people do.


Yep this is my experience. Had a very frightening 15 mins when Daisy was a puppy and got spooked by a very big dog suddenly appearing and barking at her. She just took off, and didn't stop until she was back at the car park.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> I've been watching this thread with interest as, on Wednesday, I am going to become the slave of a cat I found in my garden a couple of weeks ago. I honestly believe I did everything I could to find his owner: ad in local paper; sent his details to all the local vets; had him scanned (no chip); put him all over FB; put his details on all the 'lost cat' sites; knocked on doors in four surrounding streets. He's been with the local rescue since I found him, as that would be an obvious place for a distraught owner to contact and they, too, have advertised, but to no avail.
> 
> But.... suppose an owner comes forward in six weeks/six months/six years time? Quite worried about this now.... (also posted on relevant cat thread currently discussing same topic).


I guess it would have been rehomed by then, if it was a local cat surely the owners would have checked the local homes first as soon as their cat went missing or seen one of the ads? I guess it would be harder to find a cat if someone had taken it in cos they could keep it in the house easier as they don't need walks like dogs, so they could have been told it had been rehomed and spent all that time looking. I don't know if rescues can give out the address of where the dog/cat was rehomed to incase original owner went to try and get it back? Chip companies don't seem to be allowed to.

Maybe if someone rehomed it and owners found out a few weeks after it had gone to another home the rescue might contact the new owners? ... not sure about 6 yrs after ..if dog/cat is settled in a new home after all that time? `if it wasn't chipped how would they prove it was theirs after so long, if it also had a bond with its new owners?


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

metaldog said:


> The kennels didn't ask to see any proof of ownership, and neither dog is microchipped but the kennel manager was happy to accept the dog's joyous greeting when when reunited with Mr & Mrs Smith.


A lot of people are saying the warden didn't check for a chip, but unless I've missed something the answer is in the initial post. Neither dog was microchipped. There is nothing to say that the warden didn't check, only that they didn't have one. If the dogs had been chipped then obviously the owners would have been requested to provide matching details, but what other "proof of identity" should the owners have provided, other than the dogs recognising them and having contacted the kennels with details of where they were missing from and where found. Yes they could have taken a vaccination card or something, but that would only have said breed, age and colour, not definitive proof of identity or ownership. The fact that the dogs now have not just a new id tag but also a microchip suggests that they had some stern advice regarding avoiding a similar problem in future.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Inca whilst it is awesome that you haven't had the unfortunate event of losing your dogs, could you possible hold back on the judgmental attitude?

Seriously...accidents happen to ANYONE...a spooked dog does not run to their owners, a spooked dog will just run. Just count yourself lucky that a leash hasn't broken whilst JJ was lunging at a passing car, or a cat, or a squirrel and then decide to blow his recall because chasing is farrrr more rewarding.
Count yourself lucky that you have never had a break in allowing your dogs to escape whilst you are not there.
Count yourself lucky that your dogs cope well with fireworks and the like so don't get spooked..


Count yourself lucky rather than judging and berating people that have had the unfortunate event of their dog going missing for any length of time...It could be you one day!


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

The owners should NOT have been told where the kennels were, this is to protect the kennel owners should the dog be on the DDA., and the dog is to become evidence in a court case. It is up to the dog warden to collect the dog from the kennels and return it to the owner. The council pay the kennel owners an agreed rate (contracted) and this is included in the fee the council collect from the owner. A fine may also be included at the discretion of the council.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> Don't your dogs run TO you if they're spooked? cos mine do. If JJ steps on something awkwardly he runs back to me and I have to go look at what he stepped on or pretend I can see it from where I can get to ..and tell him it's ok..especially if I need him to go back and get his ball from that area. If it something while we're out he'll either nudge me if it something coming up behind us (like huge farm machinery on road - combine or something he doesn't see often) or try to get on my scooter footplate and sit between my legs.


There is a saying "there but for the grace of God go I" I lost a dog of mine, he was normally bomb proof, fire works didn't bother him, sudden noises etc, but he was off lead when two dogs we hadn't seen charged him from the tree line, and he ran in panic as they were between me and him he was about a 5 meters ahead of me, he was found up a Belfast Zoo about 1 hours walk away from where we were, late at night ( we had been searching for hours) the warden found him in his grounds and as he was a very large GSD he called the Police ( we also rang the police) so they rang us to tell us they had found him. He's shredded his paws, run through wire and was a bloody mess, he was 7 at the time and not once ( I'd had him since a puppy) had he put a paw wrong, big confident dog bomb proof, used to sit and watch fireworks. I'd of never thought it of him but something scared him and he ran in a blind panic, he then got lost he's ran over two very busy main road and that made him even more worried. So don't be so smug about it because it could happen to anyone..


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

According to horsey people, proof of paying the bills is proof of ownership or a receipt. Had that been me, I would have got my dogs back no matter what, camped on the doorstep til the warden came, got the finder to phone my vets. They would not have taken them away. I would have my phone with me and I have thousands of pictures on it with all three of them on there. Surely the bloke had his phone and could have contacted his wife?


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

foxiesummer said:


> The owners should NOT have been told where the kennels were, this is to protect the kennel owners should the dog be on the DDA., and the dog is to become evidence in a court case. It is up to the dog warden to collect the dog from the kennels and return it to the owner. The council pay the kennel owners an agreed rate (contracted) and this is included in the fee the council collect from the owner. A fine may also be included at the discretion of the council.


Here I know where the kennels are for the council and they also do boarding. You can drop the dog of yourself if it is out of hours.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

My local council have what kennels they use on their website, and inform you to take dosg there out of hours and follow the on site instructions (whatever those are).

When you collect your dog, you pay the kennels the fee and any further incurred costs. The dog warden certainly doesnt drop your dog off for you; half the time they are impossible to get hold of.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Same here our dog are lifted by the warden, taken to the Pound and anyone has access to them, they are open to the public who can rehome dogs from there after their 7 days ( if they are lifted as stray) or if a surrender they can be rehomed straight away or PTS. Our Pound have a FB page with all dogs past their time and not claimed. Some kennels don't allow rescues in some also run boarding kennels in the same property, which our local pound does..

*Report a lost or stolen dog*
To report a lost or stolen dog, call us on *028 90 xxxxxxxx*

We can then check to see if it has been picked up by our wardens or taken to our dog pound at:

Nutts Corner Boarding Kennels
18 Dundrod Road
Nutts Corner
Crumlin
Co. Antrim
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nutts-Corner-Boarding-Kennels/188425071337471?fref=ts
It's very much out in the public domain Warden only did their job?


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

If that was me, I would thank the people for holding onto my dogs and wait for the dog warden to come by. I would just be thankful they are safe and found and not running about, potentially causing havoc. 

I have about 1000 photos and videos of my dogs on my phone and would show this to the dog warden and if my OH showed up, they'd probably explode with joy. But if they said 'No, I need something concrete on paper' I'd take the details of where they would be taking the dogs and go get everything I need and take it back to the kennels ASAP or ask my OH to go and get it and I would follow the DW to the kennels. 

Humans make mistakes and none of us are perfect, sometimes gates are left open by children or the door doesnt close properly and dogs can escape. Where I take my 2, RARELY the farmers shoot their guns in the surrounding valleys and Dottie will hear it go off in the distance and just start to run, she doesnt know where, but she bolts, this then makes Charlie freak out and he wants to run too. We dont always know what will scare our dogs and what they are fine with one day, may scare them the next - 2 weeks ago a MASSIVE bang went off on our walk that shook the ground and Dottie didnt bat an eye lid where as I filled my nappy!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

My phone is too old to take photos with lol. I can do so but the quality means they could be any yellow Labrador! I have a ton of pics of Spencer on computer and internet but obviously wouldn't have them with me in this sort of situation.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> My phone is too old to take photos with lol. I can do so but the quality means they could be any yellow Labrador! I have a ton of pics of Spencer on computer and internet but obviously wouldn't have them with me in this sort of situation.


Haha! I never thought of that! I suppose I'm lucky in the respect that my 2 are very unique in how they look plus no one else would be as stupid as to take them home, they'd soon return them!


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

I've done some weeding enguin ompus


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Pupcakes said:


> Haha! I never thought of that! I suppose I'm lucky in the respect that my 2 are very unique in how they look plus no one else would be as stupid as to take them home, they'd soon return them!


Mine's got his rather unique tail and patch on his back leg but a pic on my phone...meh, just any old yellow Lab lol. People keep telling me I need to upgrade my phone but it still sends texts and makes phone calls, has stood up to being dropped, stood on, carried around in the dogs mouth and the battery lasts for days whereas theirs need charging every day and break if you look at them funny so...why? lol.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> Mine's got his rather unique tail and patch on his back leg but a pic on my phone...meh, just any old yellow Lab lol. People keep telling me I need to upgrade my phone but it still sends texts and makes phone calls, has stood up to being dropped, stood on, carried around in the dogs mouth and the battery lasts for days whereas theirs need charging every day and break if you look at them funny so...why? lol.


That's very true! I do love the old school phones!


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

I haven't read all the replies - but - can I just ask - is a back garden considered to be a public place then?

My two don't wear collars in the house. As they both have thick ruffs the only collars that really work are half-check collars and I wouldn't be comfortable leaving one of those on as they are loose and could catch on something etc. They are walked on harnesses and not left out in the garden but is general consensus that they should wear collars in the garden? 

I do possess half check collars (used in winter for their LED lights - never ever walked in a collar) so I could do if it was thought necessary....... Both dogs are of course microchipped.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Hanlou said:


> I haven't read all the replies - but - can I just ask - is a back garden considered to be a public place then?
> 
> My two don't wear collars in the house. As they both have thick ruffs the only collars that really work are half-check collars and I wouldn't be comfortable leaving one of those on as they are loose and could catch on something etc. They are walked on harnesses and not left out in the garden but is general consensus that they should wear collars in the garden?
> 
> I do possess half check collars (used in winter for their LED lights - never ever walked in a collar) so I could do if it was thought necessary....... Both dogs are of course microchipped.


No a back garden is not considered to be a public place. Mine do not wear collars in the garden or the house either.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Mine wears a collar in the garden as it's communal and I don't like him out there naked. Either in case someone opens a gate and he does a runner which is unlikely but not impossible. Or in case I need to get hold of him for some reason like another dog coming out or upstairs grandchildren coming visiting or the postman arriving. He welcomes anyone and everyone into the garden but not fair to allow him to pester the others who use it.


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Thanks smokeybear for the clarification! x


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

Mine also wear collars in the garden as we live in the middle of the countryside and if they escaped there would be no indication of which way they had gone. In fact pup always wears her collar. 

I also agree with what the finder did. I wouldn't want them to just hand my dogs over to anyone claiming they were theirs, But i would have waited outside for the dog warden as it could have saved a trip.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> I would not call that being spooked.
> 
> For me being spooked would for example be a firework going off and panicking dogs rarely go back to their owners they run, just like people do.


This current dog no b


IncaThePup said:


> Don't your dogs run TO you if they're spooked? cos mine do. If JJ steps on something awkwardly he runs back to me and I have to go look at what he stepped on or pretend I can see it from where I can get to ..and tell him it's ok..especially if I need him to go back and get his ball from that area. If it something while we're out he'll either nudge me if it something coming up behind us (like huge farm machinery on road - combine or something he doesn't see often) or try to get on my scooter footplate and sit between my legs.


This current dog no. Certainly not when I originally got her because what spooks her is large strange dogs bouncing on her, normally she runs and hides from them. She will try to keep somewhere where she can keep an eye on me, however there could always be the occasion when she doesn't manage. Her panic is not complete and total, unlike my old Rough Collie.

For my Rough Collie no definitely not, as what spooked him was fireworks and gun shots, on those occasions it was true panic, he would either attempt to hide under the nearest thing or under me. If we were near home he would run to the first house he found and bang on the door to hide inside (highly embarrassing), or run home. His attitude (had his brain actually functioned in the panic, which it didn't) would have been I know my way home I will go home when the terrible danger is gone.

Stepping awkwardly on something isn't panic, your scooter is obviously the safe hiding point, where in his mind the monster can't see him. We used to have similar with my collie if my son came out with us on his Welsh Cob, Welsh cobs were considered good things to hide under.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Mine are used to wearing collars (only take them off if they need a shower) and have never caught them on anything however since I started using the Bioflow collar for Inca I've often forgot to put her regular one back on especially as she no longer walks to the location but just rides in the trailer and gets out once we get there. JJ had her other magno collar on once when he'd started limping that has a clip to attach a lead (or tag) but I don't bother as I use an harness for him. I forgot so many times but he always comes back as he's totally focused on his ball. I have since though got an extra tag to attach to his harness, though I sometimes remove his harness in the field so he can have a good gallop about. 

I never thought of him seeing the scooter as a hiding place.. I guess its like a child who hides behind something and thinks cos they can't see you if they close their eyes (or look the other way) you can't see them..lol!


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## purplemonkeydishwasher (Jun 3, 2015)

Hey all - newbie here so please be gentle 

To be honest, I think that I would rather have a neighbour who refused to give my dogs away to the first person that "claimed" them, even if it meant having to travel and pay a fine.

I guess it would a) teach me a lesson and b) give me a TINY piece of mind if they ever escaped in the future.


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