# puppy biting older dog



## hobo99

Hi, can any one please advise me on how to stop my 10 week old pup (dog) from attacking my 6yr old bitch, he dives at her a lot the time and bites her quite hard and she is getting nasty with him as it must hurt her, he is a rescue pup found at 5 weeks old, terrier x and she is a jrt, some of the time they play ok , but i want to do the right thing and saying no sternly does not work , it does on other things but not when he is doing this. hope some one can help.


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## Guest

If he was found at 5 weeks old he has missed out on some essential socialisation with mum and his litter mates which is almost certainly why he is showing this behaviour. He won't of had the chance to learn what is and isn't acceptable. Hopefully your older dog will be able to teach him some manners without inflicting any damage.

In my opinion the best thing to do, if intervention is needed, is when he goes too far pick him up and hold him until he has calmed down, ignore him completly and just hold him by your side, don't fuss him as he will see this as reward for his actions, when he's calmed down put him back down and see how it goes. Repeat as necessary.


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## StolenkissGerbils

You could also try the "water pistol" trick - spray him in the face when he bites. Works for a whole manner of naughty behaviour! Might be worth a try.

Or like Cesar Millan the dog whisperer does - a nip on the neck with your two fingers simulating the mother's jaws. This might be more effective because it disciplines him like the mother would do. He missed out on the real thing so maybe you can substitute.

Oh and don't use his name to correct him because then he'll think he's done something bad every time you call him. Say "NO!" or "AAH!" or "TSCHH!" sharply as you administer the nip or the water.

Just my suggestions!


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## jackson

StolenkissGerbils said:


> You could also try the "water pistol" trick - spray him in the face when he bites. Works for a whole manner of naughty behaviour! Might be worth a try.
> 
> Or like Cesar Millan the dog whisperer does - a nip on the neck with your two fingers simulating the mother's jaws. This might be more effective because it disciplines him like the mother would do. He missed out on the real thing so maybe you can substitute.
> 
> Oh and don't use his name to correct him because then he'll think he's done something bad every time you call him. Say "NO!" or "AAH!" or "TSCHH!" sharply as you administer the nip or the water.
> 
> Just my suggestions!


Water pistols are a real no no for any puppy as far as I am concerned.

'The mother' would never bite her pups in a normal situation. There is never any need to as they take heed of her warnings from early on. It i somethign I have discussed with quite a few friends, as I am reletively new to breeding, and in over 100 years of combined breeding not one of us has ever seen a mother nip or bite a pup.

AJsehp has given good advice.


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## Guest

Excellent advice from Ajshep there. I'd just emphasise one of his points. Do the things he suggests only, as he says, "if intervention is needed". The fact that your older dog is telling the pup off when he gets too boisterous is, in fact, the best way for your pup to learn that his behaviour is wrong. Most older dogs will give a bumptious pup a sharp snap to put him back in line - usually this is just noise and in most cases the pup accepts the reprimand as a normal thing to happen and is fine a couple of minutes later. Unless the situation develops beyond this - ie the pup not heeding the reprimand or your older dog is becoming distressed by the pup's actions - then there is no real need to intervene.

I agree with Jackson - please don't use a water pistol on a puppy of this age.  And I too have never seen a mum nip her pup on the neck - I've seen a mum give a pup a quick snap as I've described above, but that's different from nipping the neck.


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## Guest

I agree with the poster above.. my puppies are 5 weeks old now and are really testing their jaws out with their littermates... as abbie is such a softie she just looks at them like  haha if they are really hurting i will growl at them and they stop immediately.. and then they will go and play a nicer game usually..

your older dog may do something similar.. he/she may growl or snap but its needed..

if you sit on the floor and play with the pup.. and he tries to bite you.. do a loud YELP!! and he may just realise that his jaws hurt


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## hobo99

Thanks ajshep and every one for your help,i will do as suggested by most of you and only step in if things seem to be getting out of hand,he is a strong willed little chap but does as i tell him most of the time when we do bits of training, and in most ways he is coming on well , i will update you in a couple of weeks and let you know how he is doing, this is a really great forum and i have learnt a lot by reading through it, thanks again, hobo


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## Guest

StolenkissGerbils said:


> You could also try the "water pistol" trick - spray him in the face when he bites. Works for a whole manner of naughty behaviour! Might be worth a try.
> 
> Or like Cesar Millan the dog whisperer does - a nip on the neck with your two fingers simulating the mother's jaws. This might be more effective because it disciplines him like the mother would do. He missed out on the real thing so maybe you can substitute.
> 
> Oh and don't use his name to correct him because then he'll think he's done something bad every time you call him. Say "NO!" or "AAH!" or "TSCHH!" sharply as you administer the nip or the water.


Have you ever seen Cesar Milan use these techniques on a puppy? It's bad enough and can be very damaging to an adult dog never mind a puppy.

I'm not a breeder but I am not nieve enough to think that mothers nip puppies on the neck. That is something adult dogs do to show dominance over one another.

Please don't use a water pistol on the pup however frustrated you get it is not an answer to the problem.

I would just add to my original post that it would be wise not to tell the pup off when he is acting this way as the adult dog may take this as her being told off and associate the pup jumping around her with being told off and then take a dislike to the pup. If I were in your position I would leave them to it and if it gets out of hand then intervene and remove the pup silently as I've described above.

Good luck and keep us posted!  Oh and welcome to the forum!


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## gillieworm

We recently introduced a puppy to our family having already having our boy. Logan is a very submissive, gentle giant who wouldn't hurt a fly and did end up looking rather scabby with puppy bites and scratches  but he just wouldn't tell her off so we did have to start intervening very slightly. When things were getting out of hand and it was obvious Logan wasn't going to put Piper in her place we started having "quiet time" where we put the pup to bed to calm her down, every time she'd be fast asleep in about 30 seconds but it seemed to really work.

Piper is now 18 weeks old and as she's much bigger Logan will now let her know if she's being too much. I think he was just frightened of breaking her when she was really tiny, but now he know's she's a bruiser and can take the odd telling off from him.

They have a fantastic relationship, still play fight, but doesn't seem to be constant mouthing anymore.

So the "time out" way definitely worked for us.

Good luck with everything, I'm sure they will sort it all out themselves


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## thai's mum

hello,
there is a product called 'pet corrector' by roger mugford. It is a small can which lets out a hissing sound. Honestly this stuff is fab. It is not a spray all it does is makes the sound!!! give it a go, you wont be disappointed!!!  x


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## Guest

gillieworm said:


> We recently introduced a puppy to our family having already having our boy. Logan is a very submissive, gentle giant who wouldn't hurt a fly and did end up looking rather scabby with puppy bites and scratches  but he just wouldn't tell her off so we did have to start intervening very slightly. When things were getting out of hand and it was obvious Logan wasn't going to put Piper in her place we started having "quiet time" where we put the pup to bed to calm her down, every time she'd be fast asleep in about 30 seconds but it seemed to really work.
> 
> Piper is now 18 weeks old and as she's much bigger Logan will now let her know if she's being too much. I think he was just frightened of breaking her when she was really tiny, but now he know's she's a bruiser and can take the odd telling off from him.


This is exactly how Milo was with our pups but we never once intervened. When we first got them he was very tolerant, he let them get away with murder, dogs know the difference between puppies and adults. As they grew he started putting them in their place more and more. It's very reminiscent of how wolves would raise pups in the wild, they would allow the pups to get away with less and less as they got older, teaching them what is and isn't acceptable.


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## gillieworm

ajshep1984 said:


> This is exactly how Milo was with our pups but we never once intervened. When we first got them he was very tolerant, he let them get away with murder, dogs know the difference between puppies and adults. As they grew he started putting them in their place more and more. It's very reminiscent of how wolves would raise pups in the wild, they would allow the pups to get away with less and less as they got older, teaching them what is and isn't acceptable.


We had to intervene only a handful of times because Logan's mouth and cheeks were bleeding from Piper hanging off his face by her teeth constantly. I know I shouldn't laugh, but he looked so funny cuz his lips were so swollen and he was struggling to eat and drink because of it 

I'm all for leaving them to sort things out on their own, but he was looking at us with sad eyes as though to say "can this horrible thing go back to where you got it from"

Like I said, was only saying what worked for us


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## Guest

thai's mum said:


> hello,
> there is a product called 'pet corrector' by roger mugford. It is a small can which lets out a hissing sound. Honestly this stuff is fab. It is not a spray all it does is makes the sound!!! give it a go, you wont be disappointed!!!  x


Can you please enlighten me as to why people feel the need to use these products on innocent little puppies?


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## Guest

gillieworm said:


> We had to intervene only a handful of times because Logan's mouth and cheeks were bleeding from Piper hanging off his face by her teeth constantly. I know I shouldn't laugh, but he looked so funny cuz his lips were so swollen and he was struggling to eat and drink because of it
> 
> I'm all for leaving them to sort things out on their own, but he was looking at us with sad eyes as though to say "can this horrible thing go back to where you got it from"


Sorry I had to laugh too! 

I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't have intervened as every situation and every dog is different. 

Back when we just had Milo where we walked there was a woman with an adult Labrador bitch and two Border Collie puppies, the male puppy was constantly hanging off the Labradors face and she had scabs all over her "checks" on both sides which were getting infected. I think it's best to leave them to it if possible but there are always situations where it's not advisable.


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## gillieworm

ajshep1984 said:


> I think it's best to leave them to it if possible but there are always situations where it's not advisable.


True! We've had piper at home for 10 1/2 weeks and Logan is only just now starting to look normal again, although if you stroke his ears you can still feel very slight scabs so she hasn't completely given in 

He did look like he had a trout pout, definitely gave Leslie Ash's disaster lip job a run for its money for a while lol


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## hobo99

Hi, yes i have seen a few of cesar milan programmes  dont like the look of a lot of things he does ,and they dont go back and show how the poor dogs were getting on. So i will keep an eye on them and do time out,s if need be, i do see what you mean about my older dog thinking she is in trouble i am being very carefull about that ,also spending plenty of time alone with her, he just seems to act rather vicious it all teeth and snarly i expect it seems worse than it is, i was just worried that he would carry on like this when he is older and harm her, as he is not like this with us ,thanks every body any tips i am most grateful for as people who have been there know what happens and i think i need to learn fast, and be one step ahead, he really is a super little chap ,and i am looking forward to taking him to puppy classes a bit after his next jab, i have got my daughter looking on your forum now she has two rescues a staffy and a border, both great dogs.i am feeling a bit happier now so thanks again to all who replied. hobo


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## cavy_gal

Never had a puppy so I'm not gonna be that brilliant with advice but all I know is a dog is a dog whatever the age may be and if you train or tell off a dog in adult yrs, it should be no different if you train or tell off a dog in puppy yrs.


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## Guest

cavy_gal said:


> Never had a puppy so I'm not gonna be that brilliant with advice but all I know is a dog is a dog whatever the age may be and if you train or tell off a dog in adult yrs, it should be no different if you train or tell off a dog in puppy yrs.


Like with humans you mean? They are a human no matter what the age? 

That's rubbish, I'm probably saying this to the wrong person but you wouldn't treat a young human child the same way as an adult? It's the same for dogs, they aren't wise to the world and without our guidance they never will be. What sort of an example are we setting them by scaring them into behaving!?! Again probably saying this to the wrong person. 

Personally I wouldn't use a pet corrector or water spray on any dog, no matter what age they were but on a young puppy it is totally barbaric.


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## cavy_gal

ajshep1984 said:


> Like with humans you mean? They are a human no matter what the age?
> 
> That's rubbish, I'm probably saying this to the wrong person but you wouldn't treat a young human child the same way as an adult? It's the same for dogs, they aren't wise to the world and without our guidance they never will be. What sort of an example are we setting them by scaring them into behaving!?! Again probably saying this to the wrong person.
> 
> Personally I wouldn't use a pet corrector or water spray on any dog, no matter what age they were but on a young puppy it is totally barbaric.


Who said anything about scaring them into behaving? I certainly didn't, all I said was that a dog is a dog whatever age. I'd never advise someone to scare a dog into doing what its told as it wouldn't understand. But theres a difference between being firm and being nasty, if you shout and scream saying "NO!! Don't do that!!!" Then obviously thats going to freak the poor thing out as well as the older dog. If you give a firm "No!" and perhaps making the pup lay nicely beside the other dog and giving him a chew toy or something else to play with, I don't know if that would work or backfire, I'm just thinking what could work without scaring the pup shitless as I agree things like water sprays aren't the best thing to do wth any animal, but maybe if the waters not forceful it may work as a short sharp shock.

Maybe he's just bored and needs more exercise? Maybe giving him more attention so he sees you as a "play thing" and one of his litter mates instead of the older dog? Yet get the older dog to join in with games and if he's rough with your older dog give him a "no", don't be aggressive about it, just firmly and carry on playing once he's stopped.

I have absolutely no idea about puppies but I'm just thinking along the lines of how you train a ferret as they're similar in character.


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## thai's mum

ajshep1984 said:


> Like with humans you mean? They are a human no matter what the age?
> 
> That's rubbish, I'm probably saying this to the wrong person but you wouldn't treat a young human child the same way as an adult? It's the same for dogs, they aren't wise to the world and without our guidance they never will be. What sort of an example are we setting them by scaring them into behaving!?! Again probably saying this to the wrong person.
> 
> Personally I wouldn't use a pet corrector or water spray on any dog, no matter what age they were but on a young puppy it is totally barbaric.


i would nt say its barbaric, the short hiss it gives distracts them from what it is you dont want them to do. It makes a noise thats all, its does not give out any sort of spray or fluid, just a sound. I have never used it on with a puppy but for my adult jrt it worked brilliantly and i only had to use it a few times before he became aware that he heard the noise everytime he repeated the action that he was nt meant to be doing. How can a noise be barbaric?


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## Guest

thai's mum said:


> i would nt say its barbaric, the short hiss it gives distracts them from what it is you dont want them to do. It makes a noise thats all, its does not give out any sort of spray or fluid, just a sound. I have never used it on with a puppy but for my adult jrt it worked brilliantly and i only had to use it a few times before he became aware that he heard the noise everytime he repeated the action that he was nt meant to be doing. How can a noise be barbaric?


Well I guess if you are too impatient/lazy to train a puppy/dog properly it could be very useful. Why do you think the noise works and stops these behaviours???


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## thai's mum

ajshep1984 said:


> Well I guess if you are too impatient/lazy to train a puppy/dog properly it could be very useful. Why do you think the noise works and stops these behaviours???


no, not lazy or impatient, it worked well for me in my situation. The sound does nt hurt them or their ears, its a distraction aid. why do you think its stops the behaviour...


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## Guest

thai's mum said:


> no, not lazy or impatient, it worked well for me in my situation. The sound does nt hurt them or their ears, its a distraction aid. why do you think its stops the behaviour...


If it's all about distraction then why not just tell him to stop the behaviour with a simple "No" ??? 

It works because the dog doesn't like the noise, possibly because it scares them. If the dog is trained properly in the first place these horrible devices don't need to be used.


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## thai's mum

ajshep1984 said:


> If it's all about distraction then why not just tell him to stop the behaviour with a simple "No" ???
> 
> It works because the dog doesn't like the noise, possibly because it scares them. If the dog is trained properly in the first place these horrible devices don't need to be used.


depending on the dog sometimes no, is not enough, as i said in my case it worked. my jack is well behaved and social but he is a jack, and he is very strong willed. His excitement over took his ears and his concentration was fixed on what it should nt have been. No amount of no's would have destracted him, believe me i did all i could. I would never raise a hand to my animals and that corrector solved my problem in a very short time. Like i said it depends on the dog, my old pointer would probably keel over if i used it on him, but because i know his temperament and i know what he is like i would not dream of using it near him. My jack is, like most jacks a tough little brute, and had he been any other way, another solution would have worked.


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## Guest

thai's mum said:


> depending on the dog sometimes no, is not enough, as i said in my case it worked. my jack is well behaved and social but he is a jack, and he is very strong willed. His excitement over took his ears and his concentration was fixed on what it should nt have been. No amount of no's would have destracted him, believe me i did all i could. I would never raise a hand to my animals and that corrector solved my problem in a very short time. Like i said it depends on the dog, my old pointer would probably keel over if i used it on him, but because i know his temperament and i know what he is like i would not dream of using it near him. My jack is, like most jacks a tough little brute, and had he been any other way, another solution would have worked.


Okay fair enough but why suggest this for a little puppy who has every chance of being trained by reinforcing the good and ignoring the bad? These "techniques" are last resort in my opinion. Surely it's better to train without them if possible?


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## thai's mum

ajshep1984 said:


> Okay fair enough but why suggest this for a little puppy who has every chance of being trained by reinforcing the good and ignoring the bad? These "techniques" are last resort in my opinion. Surely it's better to train without them if possible?


yes very true, at the time i was only thinking of my situ, my mistake!! i will apologise for that, perhaps i was a jack russell in my last life  should think before i post!! but it saved alot of upset in our house at the time. thanks for the discussion though  nice to meet you.


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## Guest

thai's mum said:


> yes very true, at the time i was only thinking of my situ, my mistake!! i will apologise for that, perhaps i was a jack russell in my last life  should think before i post!! but it saved alot of upset in our house at the time. thanks for the discussion though  nice to meet you.


Hi, lol. Sorry for the rather blunt replies but I can't stand to see these techniques used on little puppies.


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## thai's mum

ajshep1984 said:


> Hi, lol. Sorry for the rather blunt replies but I can't stand to see these techniques used on little puppies.


i understand, no worries. its good to have a disscussion and opions, its what makes the world go round. May have another little banter with you soon..


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## hobo99

Hi, well so far so good, a few times i have had to say "leave" to my jrt bitch and a few times i have had to give them time out as puppy gets a bit rough, but most of the time they are fine , they lay down together and chew their chewy sticks and sleep together on the sette in the sun room during the day and lots of playing with toys,little lad is doing well with his lead training and will do sit and down (most of the time), its really brill so many people replied to my question, i am also getting used to all the growling when they play i have to admit it freaked me out a bit to start with , i will update you again soon as to how they are doing.its good to have so many different views on the subject, most of them being how i see things. thanks to every one.

ps another question coming up

hobo


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## thai's mum

hobo99 said:


> Hi, well so far so good, a few times i have had to say "leave" to my jrt bitch and a few times i have had to give them time out as puppy gets a bit rough, but most of the time they are fine , they lay down together and chew their chewy sticks and sleep together on the sette in the sun room during the day and lots of playing with toys,little lad is doing well with his lead training and will do sit and down (most of the time), its really brill so many people replied to my question, i am also getting used to all the growling when they play i have to admit it freaked me out a bit to start with , i will update you again soon as to how they are doing.its good to have so many different views on the subject, most of them being how i see things. thanks to every one.
> 
> ps another question coming up
> 
> hobo


glad you are getting there!!


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## Guest

hobo99 said:


> ps another question coming up


Glad to hear it's going well but I refuse to answer anymore questions until we've seen some photos!


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## hobo99

Hi, ajshep i will put some on as soon as i work out how to,i promise.

hobo


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## Guest

hobo99 said:


> Hi, ajshep i will put some on as soon as i work out how to,i promise.


Just so you've got no excuses - Upload Pics - Create Album


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## hobo99

hi, i have tried but keep getting told uploading failed,


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## hobo99




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## Guest

I hope you don't mind I edited your code so the pic would show,you put http in twice,

Lovely pic and dogs btw


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## hobo99

thanks very much, i still dont know what to do, its taken me all evening to get nowhere, i am pleased you have taken pity on me.


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## hobo99




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## hobo99

Hi sallyanne, i have done it, i just have to remember how ,i need to get some better pics now, thanks again. hobo,


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## Guest

hobo99 said:


> Hi sallyanne, i have done it, i just have to remember how ,i need to get some better pics now, thanks again. hobo,


Well Done 
Your pup is a cutie


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## gillieworm

aaaawww your dogs are absolutely gorgeous


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## sskmick

I have not experienced this problem but I will say if I were to squirt water at my dog he would attempt to drink it, chase it and play. I only know that from watering the garden.

An old method used to be a rolled up newspaper slapped into your own hand to make a loud crack sound - yip the pup scooted off but then bonfire night was a big problem.

Any training method should be well thought out. I have a Staffy which are not the easiest breeds to train and I can honestly say the positive reward/praise training worked for us. (Ignore a negative, praise a positive).

Sue


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## natb

your pup is a spitting image of my baby poochie. he is sired from ashtock by jupiter. maybe they have the same dad. it is uncanny how much they look alike. when i work out how to do it i'll post some piccies and we can compare notes!


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## hobo99

Hi natb, i am looking forward to seeing your pics ,i will put some more on in a couple of weeks. 
hobo,


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## hobo99

Hi everyone, all going fairly well ,still a few bits of pup jumping and biting older dog but she mostly put him in his place, we are going to start lessons on sundayso it will be nice to see how he behaves around other dogs,so will let you know next week and hopefully some more pics (if i can remember how to do it) bye for now . hobo,


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## Guest

hobo99 said:


> Hi, can any one please advise me on how to stop my 10 week old pup (dog) from attacking my 6yr old bitch, he dives at her a lot the time and bites her quite hard and she is getting nasty with him as it must hurt her, he is a rescue pup found at 5 weeks old, terrier x and she is a jrt, some of the time they play ok , but i want to do the right thing and saying no sternly does not work , it does on other things but not when he is doing this. hope some one can help.[/Qolder dog will give him a lesson he wont forget then they will be friends


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## hobo99

Hi, we went to our 1st training lesson last sunday and got on well , he was very good with other dogs , most were gsd pups,the lead training i seem to struggle with but he is getting better,( or i am) quite some way to go yet though,what is the best book for general training as there seem to be so many and as i will have to order by post i cant have a peek in it before i buy. Still a couple of mad times a day with play fighting growling ect but in general things are getting better, as he has now discovered GARDENING, planted 2 of his toys in my flower tubs this morning but is a great help with the weeding. 

bye for now


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