# Cat ownership question



## Lunarbutterfly (Feb 26, 2015)

As I understand, cats are treated as ownable property under the law in the UK. But I have a question regarding wether ownership can change if you pretty much have full possession of the cat.

A year and a half ago, summertime 2013, our neighbours over the road got a cat. He was young, just out of kitten age. This family have 2 very large and scary dogs, and their relationship back then was man with 4 older teenage children, new woman that we found out they were going to have a baby together. All this time, the woman has never moved into his house (kids dont stay there full time) and only visits on weekends. So they get a cat... That she only sees on weekends and the man didn't give a s*** about when she wasn't there.

So my mum loves gardening, and ended up finding herself with a shadow... This cat followed her around, begged for food (he was so so skinny) but would never allow being touched (he would flinch at any quick movement or a hand being raised). Over time, coming up to winter, we would only let him in if it was below freezing temps or bad weather. I told my mum we shouldn't but he kept coming back, we tried to not give him attention after the winter 2014 was over, but he'd be waiting under the car next door for us to get home and greet us. So we softened, and he would come in. Still no pats at this stage, still very timid and hungry. Often he would disappear on some weekends, we assumed it was because the woman was visiting.

Eventually the cat was staying with us full time - we coaxed him into small pats and encouraged playful, engaging behaviour (it has taken us a whole year to now have full on pick up face rubbing cuddles). He now sleeps at our house every night (for months), we buy him food, worm him, de-flea him, give him a warm and safe environment to live and relax. The other family has never questioned this. We've seen this cat come from wrack and ruin to genuinly wanting to come into a room and have cuddles. He meows to come in the back door too.

We have recently been woken up by this cat fighting outside, getting up to break it up. He has not been neutered, and we feel that he needs neutering to ease his tom cat ways. My mum went to speak with the man, he said no - despite mum explaining the benefits nicely - 'a man shouldn't have his bits cut off' was his answer. We havn't planned it or anything like that, just asking.

Tonight we have had the woman knock rudely on our door, demanding her cat. We said we hadn't seen it (to avoid argument). She said well since your mum said about castration the other day we havn't seen him since. Erm well maybe that's because you don't care about where your cat is day in day out - never ever have they wondered where he was before. She threatened to bring the police - this coming from a woman who doesn't even see the cat on a weekly basis, and has a new baby to care for. This cat is a mongrel as well, so there are no breeding purposes for the balls to stay.

As we have fed him, had him stay at our house everyday for the last year nearly, where does possession lay? Unless they were to lock him indoors with 2 big scary dogs in a house where the man clearly throws things at the cat, then he will just keep coming back to us.

Any advice or experience?


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I fully understand your wanting to look after him but even though he isn't cared for by his owner, he is still her property and you could be accused of stealing if it was evident you encouraged him to live with you or you got him neutered etc. I'm sure lots of cats go where they find more attention. The owner would have to agree to give him to you but doesn't appear that is likely to happen. I would just be very careful as these people don't sound very pleasant to deal with. I'm sure he will still come to you unless she takes him away and confines him as this has become what he's used to. It's such a shame for the cat having ignorant uncaring owners like this. You could tell the owner he has a high risk of getting diseases like FIV if he's not neutered.


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## Lunarbutterfly (Feb 26, 2015)

It is such a shame, they clearly don't care if he sleeps outside in the freezing cold all night. Over a year ago he was so skinny, we just couldn't see such a young cat starve with an owner.

My mum did try to tell him about the benefits, but ignorant people will be ignorant - it's not like we're neutering him!

We never intended to encourage the cat to stay, but he just kept coming back and chilling in the garden, waiting outside all night by our front door until we left the house - just wanting some attention. But now he's stayed with us for so long, he's part of our family. Sleeps on my bed, stalks me round the house when I'm on the phone (wierdo) and generally loves being around us.

I would hate for them to confine him, it would be so cruel and I doubt the man would bother to feed him during the week when the woman isn't there. What a shell of an animal he'd become 

Don't intend on taking him to the vets, but if he keeps fighting at 2am I worry for his safety (and our sleep!)

Thanks for the reply xx


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

They won't confine him, they'd have to deal with the spraying and tom cat pee smell if they did. I know it's too late now but I can't help saying, if only you'd simply had him neutered without asking. They never would have noticed. "Man bits" for pete's sake.

Have you taken him to the vet ever? I thought in the UK cats were considered "wild animals", since there are no leash laws. Which means he is not their "property". I could be wrong of course. Why not have him neutered. They won't know the difference. Idiots.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

They may be free spirits but, in legal terms, they are treated as "goods" and if you have bought them are your property though who know where this one came from. I paid £70 for each of mine and have a written contract plus they are microchipped to me so legally they are my property. People have gone to court over the legal ownership of cats! 
Also, the law says an animal must be "protected from and treated for illness and injury". In my book that means being neutered. 
it depends how far you want to go in helping this cat, If you wanted to be devious you could get it microchipped then if it came to it, argue it was yours but then it would depend if the owners had any proof it was theirs. 
I think as they are not reasonable people, you should let sleeping cats lie, the cat knows where he is best off and is spending a lot of time with you and unless he becomes ill or injured and needs vet treatment, which sadly is a possibility if he keeps fighting, he is at least in your good hands. You never know, they may move and just leave him behind (not often I would actually want this to happen) or give up bothering altogether knowing you are looking after him.


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## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

I am sorry to say this - as it sounds like your family has built up a real rapport with this cat - but I would be very tempted to get a friend to drop it to a shelter some distance away from where you live and claim that it's been straying in their garden. If it's not neutered it's unlikely to be chipped and hopefully, someone somewhere will be able to adopt this poor animal and give it the sort of life it deserves.

The cat is effectively straying, it's not being fed or cared for and as such, in my mind, belongs in a shelter. 

You won't be able to keep this cat, as your neighbours have made it clear that they're not going to relinquish it to you. Perhaps you could offer to buy it from them, claiming your mum has grown really fond of it, but they sound like the sort of awful people who would say no, just to spite you.

It's so nice that you've been able to help this cat have a happy life so far. People like those neighbours of yours don't deserve animals.


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## cusackcat (Feb 27, 2015)

If they haven't had him chipped they cannot prove ownership - get him chipped to yourselves then get him neutered - it's the responsible thing to do.


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## AmsMam (Nov 25, 2014)

Responsible, yes, but the original owners have already mentioned calling the police so must believe they could prove it is their cat. I am not sure it's wise to do this when they are literally neighbours.

You could continue trying to talk to them, perhaps if she realises he was not actually being taken care of at "home" she would be more willing to give him to you - you could even offer to pay for him if you think that might help.

Or follow Erenya's advice and get him quietly taken in to a safe place some distance away so they can't make trouble for you.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Excellent overview of cat-related UK law, published at the end of last year.

http://www.thecatgroup.org.uk/pdfs/Cats-law-web.pdf


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

what an awful situation for you. 

Could you perhaps try and befriend these people, much as it might go against the grain. wave hello and start inane conversation whenever possible, it may well wrong-foot them and diffuse the antagonism. 
Eventually you may be able to broach the subject of the cat again, and I would be tempted to offer an attractive lump sum to take him off their hands. 
It is a bit of a risk, but if you pull it off then you get to keep the cat and avoid confrontation with the neighbours


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## bingolitle (Dec 6, 2014)

Shoshannah said:


> Excellent overview of cat-related UK law, published at the end of last year.
> 
> http://www.thecatgroup.org.uk/pdfs/Cats-law-web.pdf


This is a superb, easy to read overview. Is it possible for it to be stickied somewhere? Too good to lose. Especially the bit about how much (little) hobby breeders are allowed to earn before they have to pay tax and NI


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## Neil121212 (Apr 23, 2015)

Simply feed the cat and encourage it to visit. and ALWAYS give it treats.
Then its yours!


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