# aggresion towards other dogs.



## paulk73 (Jul 30, 2011)

hi everyone. my name is paul im from preston lancs. this is my first post, so i thought id introduce myself. i have 2 yr old plummer terrier male named eli. 
he is really loving, with all family, and even strangers, but my problem is with other dogs, he becomes really aggresive.
when he was about 6 months old he was roughed up a bit by another terrier, then he seemed a bit withdrawn round other dogs. until he got to about 12 months old, then he started gaining confidence. now he is 2yrs old and wants attack other dogs when around them. 
the plummer terrier as a breed are renowned for being a bit quarrelsome, but are also known for packing together well, this i know because ive witnessed it first hand. i need some help, because i want to be able to socialise more with other dog owners. any advice would be great. thanks in advance.
p.s i also have an old jack russell 15 yrs old. and they get on fine together.










eli. hope you like him.


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## Hollymum (Jun 12, 2011)

Hi, my rescue border collie is the same. She is not good with other dogs. When we come across another dog on a walk (i.e. she is off the lead) she will often approach them and want to say hello. The problem begins when the other dog says hello back. She curls her lip and snarls! And the other poor dog was only saying hello back.

I'm no dog behavioural expert and it's probably a good idea to get some expert advice and training, but I thought our experience might help others.

We've only had Holly 2 months but she is getting better with other dogs, just with a lot of patience and understanding. Now that she's settled in with us and we've bonded she is better at listening to us and following commands. When we come across another dog we will usually walk on past and call her to follow.

We try to stay calm and walk on past the other dog as if it's just a normal occurrence, nothing to get stressed about. Dogs do pick up on our stress so we as the humans have to stay calm (not saying you aren't but I've had to work on this and stop myself yelling "she's not good with other dogs, we'll just try to go past you" to the bemused dog owner heading the other way!).

I'm talking to a local dog listener and considering hiring her, or another kind of professional trainer, but the response to my request for experience with dog trainers and listeners has been a bit overwhelming. So much so that I've written about it in the interests of research: (Is Hiring A Dog Listener The Best Dog Training Advice?).

Best of luck with your issue. Do please post and let me know how you're getting on. I'm sure there are lots of us facing similar issues.


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## Hollymum (Jun 12, 2011)

p.s. Paul, meant to say your dog is very cute, and lovely pictures.


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## paulk73 (Jul 30, 2011)

cheers hollymum.
i had himout this morn, with a friend and his little patxlakie. there was a bit of handbags at first, but i let him know it wouldnt be tolerated. then they settled down, they were both eventually allowed of the leads, it was great to see them play together, tearing round the allotments, through everybodys half grown veg, lol. going to start walking them together more often. and hopefully he will get better and better. seems to me that he is worse when he is on the lead.


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

paulk73 said:


> hi everyone. my name is paul im from preston lancs. this is my first post, so i thought id introduce myself. i have 2 yr old plummer terrier male named eli.
> he is really loving, with all family, and even strangers, but my problem is with other dogs, he becomes really aggresive.
> when he was about 6 months old he was roughed up a bit by another terrier, then he seemed a bit withdrawn round other dogs. until he got to about 12 months old, then he started gaining confidence. now he is 2yrs old and wants attack other dogs when around them.
> the plummer terrier as a breed are renowned for being a bit quarrelsome, but are also known for packing together well, this i know because ive witnessed it first hand. i need some help, because i want to be able to socialise more with other dog owners. any advice would be great. thanks in advance.
> ...


I live in preston 2... My dobe is ace with other dogs... My Akita is a rescue and can be a bit full on. In that she wants to say hello and isn't sure. I think she was taken away from her mum to early! Could arrange some play dates if you want?

Also what are u feeding ur dog? If bakers could be half the prob!


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

Hey Paul, welcome to the site.

It sounds as if your dog is just a little nervy upon meeting other dogs- aggression implies that your dog intends to do harm to another dog. How many fights has he been in (if any?)? And if so, has he every bitten? And what was the damage?

With a problem like this, it's important to understand how your dog is feeling at the moment of reaction to another dog. He will be getting increasingly unsure about another dog, anxious that he may get hurt, and thus will give the dog a warning to back off. This may look nasty and thus 'aggressive', but it is no more than a person saying, "Can you please move away from me?"- yet, it is actually quite polite in the dog world.

Any punishment of this behaviour- this communication- can be detrimental. Dogs learn, primarily, by association. So, if whenever another dog comes along, he may already feel anxious, but if in addition you scold him for anything, he will begin to associate that feeling of being punished with the presence of the other dog. This can escalate matters very quickly, as the dog 1) becomes more anxious and 2) learns that his polite warnings are not working (diffusing the situation) and thus he may bite without much warning.

So, you need to change his emotions towards other dogs, and see that the presence of them is fun and very rewarding. Always have things with you that your dog loves, like toys and food (preferably some tasty training treats like cheese and chicken in the beginning). Build the association of- a dog appears, rewards appear, and repeat. Sit outside a park gate, where your dog can see other dogs without becoming frustrated, and offer treats and praise, and toys, whenever he notices another dog. When it goes out of sight, stop rewarding. Build this up gradually.

It's great that you have found someone to walk with too. Practise building a good association on their initial meetings as above. You may be interested in clicker training for this- there are many posts about getting started on this forum.

I know it can be embarrassing to have a reactive dog in public, and you feel that you _have_ to punish your dog in some way to make up for the embarrassment of your dog's reactions (I have had this feeling before!), but you really need to just forget about it, and look at things in the long run. Dogs' minds are not rational enough to grasp a lot of punishment, in terms of what they are being punished for, so whilst a behaviour may stop once you reprimand a dog, it is not really fixing the underlying emotion towards whatever caused the reaction in the first place.

Also, build up a "Let's go" or "Turn" command (lure the dog with a treat in the opposite direction and praise for following, slowly introduce the command after the dog has got into the hang of things) so as you can get out of dodge easily without your dog scraping to defend himself from another dog (lead pressure only causes more frustration and anxiety).

Learn to read your dog, to tell when he is getting stressed, and avoid him becoming reactive in the first place. If your dog is reacting, he has gone into shutdown and will not be learning anymore! Read up on canine body language (calming signals, distance-increasing signals etc) so as to remove him from situations before they become volatile.

A note about dog listeners: I too would urge to stay away from them! Whilst their methods can be humane, their understanding of why dogs do what they do is incredibly dated, based on research of seriously flawed studies done on packs of captive wolf packs, which were kept in small enclosures, with limited food, unrelated members, and no escape routes. Strict hierarchies formed here, with fighting being the norm to indicate rank and status. This is not true of wild wolf packs though- aggression is hardly every seen and they are family units, meaning rank is not competed for; it just is (i.e., mother and father at the top, offspring below). So, dog listeners think that dogs with behavioural problems see themselves at the top of a hierarchy, which just isn't true. What's more, dogs aren't wolves (despite having close DNA- behaviour is a completely different ball game), and research indicates that domestic dogs rely on relationships with individuals rather than any formation of hierarchies- no study has found there to be any hierarchical arrangement in domestic dogs.

Look for a APBC, COAPE or APDT behaviourist at the least if you want more help. PM me for any further advice if wanted


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## absycats (May 27, 2011)

my sprollie used to bark like mad when she saqw another dog as id had a rescue just b4 her that attacked another dog and had to bak id get stressed this i think made her worse we used pet correction spray from pets at home it makes a noise then rewarded the good behaviour 6 months later no stress on walks weve doubled the length of them i have a happier dog which makes me happy and she can run loose with other dogs


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

paulk73 said:


> my name is paul i'm from preston, lancs.
> this is my first post, so i thought id introduce myself.
> i have a 2-YO plummer terrier male named eli.
> he's really loving, with all family, and even strangers, but my problem is with other dogs, he becomes really aggro.


hey, Paul! :001_smile: welcome to PF-uk.

U don't mention if he's intact or desexed; if he's intact, i'd recommend he be snipped. 
it's not an instant total solution, but it does reduce aggro & makes B-Mod easier.

when he sees other dogs, exactly what does he do?

bark, lunge, air-snap, charge & bite, head-over their shoulder, stands with paws on the shoulders, 
male postural display [rigid, tail vertical, leans forward on toes, weight forward, hackles, hard stare, etc], 
growls & stares with hard eyes, WHAT? don't describe *how he feels;* but *what he DOES.*


paulk73 said:


> [at] about 6-MO he was roughed up... by another terrier, then he seemed a bit withdrawn round other dogs.
> until he got to about 12-MO, then he started gaining confidence. now he is 2-YO & wants [to] attack other dogs
> when around them.


what specific behavior makes U THINK he 'wants to attack them'? 
has he ever bitten a dog badly-enuf to need stitches or drains or antibiotics for a puncture? 


paulk73 said:


> ...i want to be able to socialise more with other dog owners. [SNIP]
> i also have an old jack russell 15-YO, and they get on fine together.


that U want to socialize with other dogs does not mean he wants to - some dogs really aren't keen, 
they have a few buddies, often housemates, & maybe one to 3 others - and that's IT. 
they have no interest in playing with or even meeting other dogs close-up; investigating scents 
is about as far as they want to go. They watch other dogs, sniff where they've been, 
react when they bark, but don't want to wrestle, chase or be chased, & so on.

does he play with Ur oldie, or just move outside & back inside, & hang out together without much 
real interaction?

* _Click to Calm_ is an excellent DIY manual for reactive issues.

* *calmatives * can help a lot. 
see Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much... 
for What, When, How, etc - i'd recommend a minimum of 3: 1 oral, 1 tactile, & one olfactory. 
whichever one starts acting first helps support & engage the other 2; there are no interactions, dosage fears, 
prescriptions... just buy them & use as needed.

* Dr Overall has a wonderful website with loads of protocols for B-mod 
Welcome to k9aggression.com | Dog Aggression Education, Support and Resources


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

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## paulk73 (Jul 30, 2011)

wow thanks for all the replies. well i had him out last night with my mate and his terrier bitch. we put them in the car together(in seperate travel crates) and eli growled all the way to the destination. when we let the dogs out they where fine again together. it was brilliant to see them getting on. 
to answer one of the questions, no he hasnt hurt another dog. but when he is on the lead he pulls and lunges ant the other dog whith his lips currled back and teeth bared. he plays with my older dog fine, and the cats, he sometimes sleeps using one of the cats as a pillow lol. but when he was a pup he got a bit of a drubbing off another plummer terrier. then the next time we saw the offending dog, eli was about 12 months old and he seemed to want to get his own back. then it just got worse from there. 
i suppose he picked up on my anxiety, when we met other dogs as well. 
also to answer another question. i feed him iams. i will try some of these suggestions out. thanks a lot people.


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## paulk73 (Jul 30, 2011)

stigDarley said:


> I live in preston 2... My dobe is ace with other dogs... My Akita is a rescue and can be a bit full on. In that she wants to say hello and isn't sure. I think she was taken away from her mum to early! Could arrange some play dates if you want?
> 
> Also what are u feeding ur dog? If bakers could be half the prob!


 hi stig. that would be good to arrange a time to have a walk together. next week will be good for me as i have a week off work.:smile5:


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## kashew (Jan 24, 2012)

Hi,

We have a Plummer Terrier too and have similar problems even though ours in only 8months old. To give a brief explanation our little guy always showed a few aggressive tendencies from the word go and tried to be very dominant towards me and my girlfriend. We stamped on the dominance thing pretty hard at home and by and large he is lovely and very happy round the house, although he is often restless and jumps at the first sign of anything in the garden. But in the park he can be a living nightmare - very good and playfull with some dogs, particularly terrier breeds - but you always have to watch it doesnt go in to what we call the 'red zone' where he goes frickin nuts and basically attacks resulting in a fully blown tear up. He also does what we call the 'freeze' where he just suddenly freezes up and then within a split second attacks. We have particularly noticed this in a group of dogs or in a trio and we think has something to do with him feeling out of control or wanting to assert his dominance. A couple of weeks ago his dire behaviour reached a peak and we decided out of desperation that it was time he said goodbye to the family jewels. He does already seem better with the odd dog passing by, but he still has a problem with packs of dogs playing and i suspect we will always have to avoid groups of dogs. We also always put him on the lead when children are around. Trouble is he's still very cute (despite the muscles and the huge mouth) and kids and adults alike naturally want to pet him. If only they knew!! When all is said and done though we love him and he has a really lovely side.


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