# Booo...



## Guest (Mar 22, 2013)

Storm is back on meds again as of this morning  We are trying doxycycline and baytril this time, I had to take her into the bathroom today for a steaming session to help ease her breathing again :frown2:

This is us having cuddles this morning after her icky meds









And having a wander to see what trouble she can get herself into (please ignore the mess, I need to drag that corner out to clean it all )


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

awwwwww poor ickle mite x not nice bet its costing you a fortune?


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2013)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> awwwwww poor ickle mite x not nice bet its costing you a fortune?


Well lets put it this way, who ever said rats are a cheap pet....was lying....big time.....

I just wish I had a magic wand to make them all better, but sadly the vet is all I can do


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Well lets put it this way, who ever said rats are a cheap pet....was lying....big time.....
> 
> I just wish I had a magic wand to make them all better, but sadly the vet is all I can do


so what are the costs? - I obviously know what the costs for and equine is - never thought about costs for rats tbh


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2013)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> so what are the costs? - I obviously know what the costs for and equine is - never thought about costs for rats tbh


We are into the hundreds already due to a couple of emergency appointments. I would have to dig out all my receipts to get an exact amount but today alone cost nearly £50 :


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> We are into the hundreds already due to a couple of emergency appointments. I would have to dig out all my receipts to get an exact amount but today alone cost nearly £50 :


good god  ouchy x thats a large amount - poor mite all the same x


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

That's a big chunk of dosh. Hope she improves with her new meds. I think you're great for taking on an animal that is going to have an ongoing problem like this, both for the financial burden and the worry that it entails looking after a sick animal. You deserve a ratty knighthood!:biggrin:


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Poor girl.
Totally agree with u bernie about costing a fortune in vet bills.
Do you know blade my german shepherd hasn't cost us quite near as much as the various rats I've had in the past needing vet treatment!!

I hope this time storm over comes her RI.
I bet it was nice to have cuddles.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2013)

blade100 said:


> Poor girl.
> Totally agree with u bernie about costing a fortune in vet bills.
> *Do you know blade my german shepherd hasn't cost us quite near as much as the various rats I've had in the past needing vet treatment!!
> *
> ...


You are so not wrong, my cat has cost a fraction of the price in vet bills compared to the small furries :

It was lovely having cuddles, it's nice that she trusts me even tho I have to keep forcing nasty tasting fluids in her mouth


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Poor girl,it makes us feel bad doesn't it.

At the min two of my boys are on AB's I prefer doxy to baytril as I crush the pieces of doxy tab on a tea spoon then mix with some tasty foods.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2013)

blade100 said:


> Poor girl,it makes us feel bad doesn't it.
> 
> At the min two of my boys are on AB's I prefer doxy to baytril as I crush the pieces of doxy tab on a tea spoon then mix with some tasty foods.


Oh I wish I could do that, neither Storm nor Nova will take any meds in food even tablets are sniffed out and not touch so I have to crush them and then suck them up into a syringe with some water or juice


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Crafty beggars! Lol.

Much needed treats after!  does the trick.


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

Sorry shes feeling poorly. 

Hope she starts to feel better soon!


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

it may not help, but it could be worth a shot at trying the meds in mashed potato... my 6 are on baytril for a minor RI, and thats how i get it into them with no issues what so ever. mind you, those girls show me just how lucky i was to have had Reid- that boy just opened his mouth for the syringe to squirt into! but i think he was one of a kind!
it was ridiculous- the other night i had a ready meal, but had to make the ratties mash!! :


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2013)

kodakkuki said:


> it may not help, but it could be worth a shot at trying the meds in mashed potato... my 6 are on baytril for a minor RI, and thats how i get it into them with no issues what so ever. mind you, those girls show me just how lucky i was to have had Reid- that boy just opened his mouth for the syringe to squirt into! but i think he was one of a kind!
> it was ridiculous- the other night i had a ready meal, but had to make the ratties mash!! :


Now that would be an awesome idea.... However.....These girls won't touch mash, not even cheesy mash


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

fab idea about mash mine love mash lol 

hope she gets better on these new meds


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Now that would be an awesome idea.... However.....These girls won't touch mash, not even cheesy mash


what!? :yikes:
even i'd eat baytril in cheesy mash!!!!!!


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2013)

kodakkuki said:


> what!? :yikes:
> even i'd eat baytril in cheesy mash!!!!!!


I know, I was soo shocked.. However, Hope was extremely pleased as it meant there was more mash for her :lol:


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Now that would be an awesome idea.... However.....These girls won't touch mash, not even cheesy mash


I'm really shocked at that, they always ate mash with me. I was always giving them the leftovers, and got a clear bowl:001_huh:.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Are these the rats you sent to Bernie then?


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Lopside said:


> Are these the rats you sent to Bernie then?


Yes, and I did NOT know there was anything wrong with them, or I'd never have offered them.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> Yes, and I did NOT know there was anything wrong with them, or I'd never have offered them.


but have you offered to pay/cover/reimburse Bernie for her out of pocket costs?


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

If you knew nothing was wrong with them then all the more reason to be thankful that they went to someone who knew how to recognise a sick animal and take care of it. And on that note, after sitting on my hands all night, how you can come in here being so blasé about them eating mash when they were in your shed, at the same time as showing us all your new hamsters that have cost you £73 so far, that you haven't even "made" cages for yet, despite having the time to arrange for couriers to deliver them from near London, whilst Bernie is paying for veterinary treatment of the rats in question absolutely beggars my belief. I guess now you have rehomed your sick ears they are no longer your responsibility eh?


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Lopside said:


> If you knew nothing was wrong with them then all the more reason to be thankful that they went to someone who knew how to recognise a sick animal and take care of it. And on that note, after sitting on my hands all night, how you can come in here being so blasé about them eating mash when they were in your shed, at the same time as showing us all your new hamsters that have cost you £73 so far, that you haven't even "made" cages for yet, despite having the time to arrange for couriers to deliver them from near London, whilst Bernie is paying for veterinary treatment of the rats in question absolutely beggars my belief. I guess now you have rehomed your sick ears they are no longer your responsibility eh?


I am thankful to Bernie for taking them, I've told her so several times. My hamsters don't need cages at the moment, their in bins, which are fine for them. I want to actually make cages that will match the others, and after paying for the hamsters,vets last week and Crufts this month, I don't have any spare money, so its going to have to wait. I work for myself, I only get what I can earn. There is nothing wrong with bin cages. Now, I'm sorry they were sick, had I known I would have rehomed them elsewhere. But I cannot afford to pay a ton of money out for them, I don't have it. What I do have is for my own dogs incase they need the vets as their not insured, and the rabbits will probably need stuff this year now their outside too. So I simply don't have it. If I was a millionaire, fair enough, I'd write out a cheque, but I'm nowhere near that, and can't give what I don't have. Bernie, I'm sorry their not right, if your finding them too expensive, feel free to rehome them, as I'm sorry, but I just can't afford to give anything to them. Don't feel your obliged to keep them, after all, you didn't bargain on having expensive vet bills with them.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Passing animals on because they are ill is completely wrong! And not fair on other people. 
I'm glad bernie got to have them otherwise who knows whether they'd have got the vet treatment that they so needed! They could've been dead now if passed on to someone else who didn't have a clue about rats and their health.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> I am thankful to Bernie for taking them, I've told her so several times. My hamsters don't need cages at the moment, their in bins, which are fine for them. I want to actually make cages that will match the others, and after paying for the* hamsters,vets last week and Crufts this month,* I don't have any spare money, so its going to have to wait. I work for myself, I only get what I can earn. There is nothing wrong with bin cages. Now, I'm sorry they were sick, had I known I would have rehomed them elsewhere. But I cannot afford to pay a ton of money out for them, I don't have it. What I do have is for my own dogs incase they need the vets as their not insured, and the rabbits will probably need stuff this year now their outside too. So I simply don't have it. If I was a millionaire, fair enough, I'd write out a cheque, but I'm nowhere near that, and can't give what I don't have. Bernie, I'm sorry their not right, if your finding them too expensive, feel free to rehome them, as I'm sorry, but I just can't afford to give anything to them. Don't feel your obliged to keep them, after all, you didn't bargain on having expensive vet bills with them.


but this happened after you knew the rats were ill and had cost money - you have purchased new hammies at a cost AFTER you knew the rats you owned were under vet care, I am sure a £10 would have helped, it worries me what would you have done if Bernie had not rehomed them!


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> Bernie, I'm sorry their not right, if your finding them too expensive, feel free to rehome them, as I'm sorry, but I just can't afford to give anything to them. Don't feel your obliged to keep them, after all, you didn't bargain on having expensive vet bills with them.


Ok ignoring the rest because quite frankly I don't give a crap, but what the actual f*ck????????

You expect me to give them away because??? When have I EVER given any of my animals away???? I would NEVER take on an animal to just pass on because they might not be perfect....that is a disgusting attitude.....

I have never asked you for anything for these girls, not a bloody thing, and I never will ask you for anything.... The girls are here and they are getting the vet treatment that they need, but I will say that it is a bit of a kick in the teeth when I can't take anymore rescue animals in due to not wanting to overload my vet bills at the moment yet you are happy to spend nearly £100 on two new fluffy hamsters..... :frown2:

You will do well to learn that sorry is just a word, your actions do not say you are sorry in the slightest for the girls being sick...You just want to pass the buck and the only thing you are sorry for is getting caught out :frown2:

Please don't get yet another of my threads closed with your triad of abuse...I'm out


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Anyone can read what she wrote & come to their own conclusions Bernie. It says it all.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

blade100 said:


> Passing animals on because they are ill is completely wrong! And not fair on other people.
> I'm glad bernie got to have them otherwise who knows whether they'd have got the vet treatment that they so needed! They could've been dead now if passed on to someone else who didn't have a clue about rats and their health.


I mean to someone who knows their not well when they get them, and is pretty loaded. Someone who knows properly what their getting. I sent them Bernie saying they were fine as that's what I believed, and their not. I don't agree with passing on animals who are ill either, but their unfairly costing Bernie money she didn't bargain for and as I can't offer anything to them, the least I can do is say I don't mind her rehoming them so she doesn't have to be out of pocket.



reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> but this happened after you knew the rats were ill and had cost money - you have purchased new hammies at a cost AFTER you knew the rats you owned were under vet care, I am sure a £10 would have helped, it worries me what would you have done if Bernie had not rehomed them!


I don't know they had cost that much, not until Bernie put it in this thread. I am staggered at how much they've cost, I haven't spent that much on my dogs in their 5 and 12 years! if Bernie had not rehomed them, I would have given them to one of my friends. Or I'd have kept them, but I will honestly admit they wouldn't have gone to the vet, as I had no reason whatsoever to believe they needed to. In that sense I am glad Bernie took them, as my friend wouldn't have had a clue either. I would never ever have offered them Bernie if I thought they were ill though, I'm genuinely upset about that, she must feel like she's been short changed, and that wasn't my intention whatsoever, all I thought was they were fit and healthy and she'd give them a much better home than anyone else. I had no reason to believe they weren't well, they were lively, ate everything and anything given them, felt solid and heavy,had bright shiny eyes, and their coats were nice. The only one who looked a bit tatty and was smaller was Nova, which I put down to her being 7 or 8 months older than them, and from [email protected] stock. And they squeaked, which I now know was a rattle, but I thought they did chatter and squeak amongst themselves, they'd done it since I got them, and I took it was a normal rat noise that they all did. As I said, if Bernie is finding them too much moneywise, I'll understand completely if she can't manage them and wants to rehome them. I don't want her to be spending a fortune on them because she feels obliged to keep them, when she didn't ask for this and its my fault for stuffing up so badly.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

so when I posted on the last thread when they got to Bernie and they were found to be unwell you opened your purse?

when I left a visitor message on your wall

"reallyshouldnotwearjods
hi, just to say my view has not changed but I am not here to go over old ground or to have ago, and I am putting this in plain view so nothing can be misconstrued, I strongly feel that you should (if you already have then I apologise) to reimburse for the vet costs." dated 12/02/2013

then off we pop to Crufts and spend money on new fluffy hammies really sticks in my throat!!

*Bernie* did you enjoy your day out at crufts? :mad5:

you keep going round in circles *wobbles* okay we get it YOU did not know the rats were ill when you sent them to Bernie, what has that got to do with the subsequent knowledge of finding out how ill they were - infact I think I have spent more money on your bloody rats than you have and will be giving Bernie some cash to help towards Nova 'Jods' - why? because I am a woman of actions not offering piffling excuses from my keyboard - nothing you can say will change my mind on this what so ever!


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

bernie, if the rats are on baytril i have a unopened bottle you can have. i do have spare. also i have an unopened bottle of ipakitine you can have aswell.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Why would Bernie get rid of them because they cost her money? I think the poor mites have been through enough. 

I think the least you could do is be supportive and thank her for the treatment she's got these rats, after all the likelyhood is they were ill long before she got them. 

£10 here and there wouldn't go amiss, crufts and buying new hamsters is not as important as vet fee's! :frown2:


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

I went to Crufts as I wanted new stock, at the trade prices they offer. I bought my hammies with money my nan gave me. I am not making excuses, I can't give what I ain't got. If the bills really are in the hundreds and ongoing, how the hell do you expect me to pay to that, a tenner here and there is hardly going to do anything? I only get what I can earn, and having 15 animals of my own here, most of what I do earn goes towards their keep. I tell you what, when the rabbits need stuff in the next couple of months, cos their now outside, I'll not take them, and send the money for their vet fee to the rats instead, yes?


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

CRL said:


> bernie, if the rats are on baytril i have a unopened bottle you can have. i do have spare. also i have an unopened bottle of ipakitine you can have aswell.


If you want to send some my way then feel free hun, you have my address if I remember right  Thank you 



Wobbles said:


> I tell you what, when the rabbits need stuff in the next couple of months, cos their now outside, I'll not take them, and send the money for their vet fee to the rats instead, yes?


Seriously?? Read that back and tell me that is a grown up thing to say?? You are missing the point completely, in fact it has flown right over your head :frown2:


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Well I have 5 horses - 2 dogs - 6 cats (1kitten) - 7 chickens - 2 children bills to pay etc (with alot more going on that no one knows about on this forum in my personal life)........


.................. I hope that £30 helps Bernie hun x


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

I wish I could rep you again hun but I have to spread the love before I can 

Thank you so, so much


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

poor little mite, i remember having to place Mungo in her bed on the closed toilet while one of us went in the shower to help clear out her nose, she always came out a right snotty mess


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

what dosage of baytril do you give? something is telling me i dont have my ratties on a high enough dose.
do you think baytril would soak in to corned beef to give?



B3rnie said:


> I wish I could rep you again hun but I have to spread the love before I can
> 
> Thank you so, so much


i repped, so it can be a joint rep!


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

kodakkuki said:


> what dosage of baytril do you give? something is telling me i dont have my ratties on a high enough dose.
> do you think baytril would soak in to corned beef to give?


At the moment they are still on .11 twice a day and Doxycycline 5 mg/kg for 14 days.

Ohh corned beef is a great idea, I have some spam in the cupboards so I might try the meds in that


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

shetlandlover said:


> Why would Bernie get rid of them because they cost her money? I think the poor mites have been through enough.
> 
> I think the least you could do is be supportive and thank her for the treatment she's got these rats, after all the likelyhood is they were ill long before she got them.
> 
> £10 here and there wouldn't go amiss, crufts and buying new hamsters is not as important as vet fee's! :frown2:


I have thanked Bernie, many times over, and told her how grateful I am to her. That's why I feel bad about them being ill, and have tried to offer a solution of rehoming them if their getting too expensive. Bernie doesn't have to, fair enough if she doesn't want to, but at least I've offered a way out, and not said she has to keep hold of them while I can give no money support.



B3rnie said:


> If you want to send some my way then feel free hun, you have my address if I remember right  Thank you
> 
> Seriously?? Read that back and tell me that is a grown up thing to say?? You are missing the point completely, in fact it has flown right over your head :frown2:


I'm saying, instead of taking the rabbits to the vets when their next meant to go, I'll send you the money instead.



reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> Well I have 5 horses - 2 dogs - 6 cats (1kitten) - 7 chickens - 2 children bills to pay etc (with alot more going on that no one knows about on this forum in my personal life)........
> 
> .................. I hope that £30 helps Bernie hun x


£30 is a lot of money, when you get what you can earn though. Might be peanuts to those in regular work, but its not to me.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

i reckon someone should do a taste test to see what food helps hide the yakky baytril the best, maybe a slice of humble pie???


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> I have thanked Bernie, many times over, and told her how grateful I am to her. That's why I feel bad about them being ill, and have tried to offer a solution of rehoming them if their getting too expensive. Bernie doesn't have to, fair enough if she doesn't want to, but at least I've offered a way out, and not said she has to keep hold of them while I can give no money support.
> 
> I'm saying, instead of taking the rabbits to the vets when their next meant to go, I'll send you the money instead.
> 
> *£30 is a lot of money, when you get what you can earn though. Might be peanuts to those in regular work, but its not to me*.


oh!! yeah because I have that to spare to go flitting all over the place, I am in regular work - but selfemployed, I will have to make a couple of cuts here and there - I did not go to crufts, but you did now that is a luxury I can not afford x these circles are getting bigger and bigger and you are still going round and round at least *I did the right thing*


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Wobbles said:


> I have thanked Bernie, many times over, and told her how grateful I am to her. That's why I feel bad about them being ill, and have tried to offer a solution of rehoming them if their getting too expensive. Bernie doesn't have to, fair enough if she doesn't want to, but at least I've offered a way out, and not said she has to keep hold of them while I can give no money support.
> 
> I'm saying, instead of taking the rabbits to the vets when their next meant to go, I'll send you the money instead.
> 
> £30 is a lot of money, when you get what you can earn though. Might be peanuts to those in regular work, but its not to me.


what you don't seem to get though, is that getting rid isn't a solution to most rat owners- they steal your heart instantly and thats that.
i've always been polite with my responses to you wobbles, but for goodness sake grow up and grow a set!

i'm on a Very limited income atm, but when my rats needed a £65 vet visit (with a 2 1/2hr round trip to the specialist) guess what? i had noodles and value ready meals for the rest of the week to fund the visit!!
i just don't get why, if you don't have a vet fund sitting and are on limited earnings, that you would rush out to buy new pets rather than putting the money away for a rainy day (ie sick animal).


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> If you want to send some my way then feel free hun, you have my address if I remember right  Thank you


think i have it in pm. if not will send you a pm on facebook for it again. will try and get to the post office on monday to send it to you. 
do you want the ipakitine, it helps with kidney problems in older rats, might help with your girls or boys.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> I'm saying, instead of taking the rabbits to the vets when their next meant to go, I'll send you the money instead.
> 
> .


Yes, yes that is exactly what I want... Just forget it....You don't get it, and quite frankly I doubt you ever will get it....

I thought you might have learnt something from all this, however your attitude still stinks :sneaky2:

But hey why am i bothered when your mantra is to just pass on your problems huh, yes you have said sorry, however as i said before that is just a word.....

Don't worry the girls won't be going anywhere, and I do NOT think any less of them because they aren't perfect, they are here for life as I have told you before... The fact you are still repeating that you would rather the girls have died than give them to me says it all to me :Yawn:

ETA: Cheers Kelly that would be fab, I actually need some more baytril so this saves me getting another prescription from the vets  I've not used ipakitine before but if you don't want it then you can send it and I'll look into it, your choice hun


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

a little word of wisdom,

if you are on a limited income as you keep stating, maybe its a good idea not to have as many pets?


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

*wobbles* - over the past few months since handing your girls over to Bernie I really started to gain respect for you, don't get me wrong you still came out with some stupid things but you seemed to have grown up and thought more about your actions - like your comments with a poster on here who wanted a lone rat - you did amazing.

*However...* in these posts you sound just like you did all those months ago :frown2:

The thing is, you did those girls the best thing you could have possibly done by giving them to Bernie, and I commend you for that. What people are annoyed about isn't the fact that you don't have the money to pay for the vet bills or to give some compensation to Bernie, but the fact you are willing to pay £75+ on two more animals which are now in your care. If you had come on here and explained how sorry you were for not realising they were ill (which you have done) and explained you didn't have the money at the current time I doubt anyone would have had a problem - the problem is that you've prioritised elsewhere rather than just not having the money.

I'm not even angry about any of it - just very disappointed that someone who I thought had learnt from experience has just gone back to acting like a spoilt child :frown2:


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Micky93 said:


> *wobbles* - over the past few months since handing your girls over to Bernie I really started to gain respect for you, don't get me wrong you still came out with some stupid things but you seemed to have grown up and thought more about your actions - like your comments with a poster on here who wanted a lone rat - you did amazing.
> 
> *However...* in these posts you sound just like you did all those months ago :frown2:
> 
> ...


Rep coming your way, that is exactly what the issue is here..... I'm not mad in the slightest, I feel like I've had a huge kick in the teeth tho


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Rep coming your way, that is exactly what the issue is here..... I'm not mad in the slightest, I feel like I've had a *huge lick in the teeth* tho


That sounds much worse than a huge kick in the teeth :scared:


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

i still have you address bernie so will send it on monday if i can. 
its a 100ml bottle so should last a while. damn stuff costs a bomb so every little helps. 
Ipakitine - £10.00 : ratRations.com


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

A twenty, tenner or even a fiver in a card would *help*...

No one has an excuse for giving nothing at all... I would bet that I have way less money than you... I would still make sure to give SOMETHING!! ANYTHING.... even as a token gesture... 

As usual, great job Bernie!!

Giving an animal away because it costs more than you thought  poor babies... so pleased they are in the right home that would never dream of doing such a thing.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Micky93 said:


> That sounds much worse than a huge kick in the teeth :scared:


:lol: :lol: That will teach me to think faster than I can type, my excuse is the K and L are next to each other....


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> oh!! yeah because I have that to spare to go flitting all over the place, I am in regular work - but selfemployed, I will have to make a couple of cuts here and there - I did not go to crufts, but you did now that is a luxury I can not afford x these circles are getting bigger and bigger and you are still going round and round at least *I did the right thing*


I go to Crufts every year, I save up for it, and I needed new stock. I'm not going to not go, especially when I need stuff.



B3rnie said:


> Yes, yes that is exactly what I want... Just forget it....You don't get it, and quite frankly I doubt you ever will get it....
> 
> I thought you might have learnt something from all this, however your attitude still stinks :sneaky2:
> 
> ...


I have learnt from it, as you know. I have learnt to stick with animals you know, to do research first, to learn about something before taking it on, to not buy too many to fit where you have, to not take on too much, I could go on. I have not said I'd rather they died anywhere at all. I'm very grateful they did go to someone who understood them properly, and I am very glad I did give them to you, yes I do wish in one way I hadn't, but that's only because their ill and costing you money you never planned on, which I feel bad about.



MrRustyRead said:


> a little word of wisdom,
> 
> if you are on a limited income as you keep stating, maybe its a good idea not to have as many pets?


Hamsters and gerbils aren't that expensive. One off cage price and toys, bedding, food, and the odd vet trip. Not the same as constantly back and forth to the vet. I really don't get the problem, I bought 2 tiny hamsters for £18, not another dog for £800. I've got 2 dogs, 2 rabbits, 8 hamsters and 3 gerbils, apart from possibly the dogs, hardly likely to break the bank.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Wobbles said:


> Hamsters and gerbils aren't that expensive. One off cage price and toys, bedding, food, and the odd vet trip. Not the same as constantly back and forth to the vet. I really don't get the problem, I bought 2 tiny hamsters for £18, not another dog for £800. I've got 2 dogs, 2 rabbits, 8 hamsters and 3 gerbils, apart from possibly the dogs, hardly likely to break the bank.


how do you KNOW that these hammies wont need vet visits though? the two hamsters in my college have cost a few hundred in the last couple of months from eye infections... i have one of them here over easter and have been given the vets number etc for if i need to take him to the vets and put the bill on their tab...
hamsters dont = cheap pet by default.


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> I go to Crufts every year, I save up for it, and I needed new stock. I'm not going to not go, especially when I need stuff.
> 
> I have learnt from it, as you know. I have learnt to stick with animals you know, to do research first, to learn about something before taking it on, to not buy too many to fit where you have, to not take on too much, I could go on. I have not said I'd rather they died anywhere at all. I'm very grateful they did go to someone who understood them properly, and I am very glad I did give them to you, yes I do wish in one way I hadn't, but that's only because their ill and costing you money you never planned on, which I feel bad about.
> 
> *Hamsters and gerbils aren't that expensive. One off cage price and toys, bedding, food, and the odd vet trip. Not the same as constantly back and forth to the vet. I really don't get the problem, I bought 2 tiny hamsters for £18, not another dog for £800. I've got 2 dogs, 2 rabbits, 8 hamsters and 3 gerbils, apart from possibly the dogs, hardly likely to break the bank.*


The cage my hamster (Bolt) has is the Alexander = £60 give or take.
A small bag of food that is good quality = £2 per 700g 
Good quality bedding = £8 for bag of megazorb/£20 carefresh 
Toys = need changing when too chewed/broken/for stimulation
Transport = £55
Hamster= £18
and vet trips will be even more expensive due to being an specialised animal.

These are not 'one off payments' and they all add up. Already that is over £100 just for these two new hamsters. That could have paid for the first lot of vet trips for these rats that NEED the care.

at the end of the day wobbles, it is clear to everyone here reading this that you only care about your new perfect hamsters and could not care less about the rats you got rid of. And don't come back giving me all the rubbish about 'I do care, what do you expect me to do, not take rabbits to the vets' - it's childish and immature and just highlights once again to everyone that YOU know you are in the wrong. If it really is down to not being able to give anything as it would mean the rabbits can't go to the vets then you really should not have brought any more animals into your care until you are financially stable. :frown2:

Bernie - you are an amazing person, and I am beyond pleased that the girls have landed on their paws with such a kind and caring individual :thumbup1:


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> I have not said I'd rather they died anywhere at all.


-cough...cough-



> Yes, and I did NOT know there was anything wrong with them, or I'd never have offered them.


If you hadn't have offered them, then they would have died, simple.. So yes, you may not have said those very words, you have insinuted it on many occasions tho :frown2:

You will have another come back from that I'm sure, as you still aren't getting the point.. Maybe re-read Micky93's post as that post is spot on about how I'm feeling right now......


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

i dont think bernie is angry at having to pay for the rats vets bills, any owner worth their weight in gold would do that. i think what is making her angry is that people who have never met her or the rats, people from a huge internet forum, are willing to send her money and medicine for these rats, yet their old owner wont. 
the baytril im sending bernie costs £50 a bottle from my vets, thats a days work for me. the bottle of ipakitine im sending costs £10 a bottle, thats 2 hours work for me. do you not think i will be out of pocket too. but it seems total strangers care about these rats more than the previous owner.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> *I go to Crufts every year, I save up for it, and I needed new stock. I'm not going to not go, especially when I need stuff.*


BOO HOO in my world its whats called tough tittys last year I had to forgo my entry to Windsor Horse show due to a vet bill for Frankie (baby pony) who got an ulcer on his eye due to a fly bite, I save for it every year, I did not go as his welfare was much more important than *ME* getting myself stock/equipment blah di blah - my dishwasher broke down last March still dont have a new one but ponys have saddles that fit ..........oh!! and I just helped Bernie out with your fookin rats care!!

my 11yr old shows more maturity than you have in your entire little toe - I am walking away from this now before I type what I really think of you x

*RAGE :mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5:*


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Micky93 said:


> The cage my hamster (Bolt) has is the Alexander = £60 give or take.
> A small bag of food that is good quality = £2 per 700g
> Good quality bedding = £8 for bag of megazorb/£20 carefresh
> Toys = need changing when too chewed/broken/for stimulation
> ...


I have never paid into the hundred for a hamster
Cage already got, I just want to make another when I get time
Food, already have due to having 6 hamsters anyway
Toys, I have, last quite well, replaced when needed
Transport, money my gran gave me
So cost of hamsters was £18, which won't even make a dent in a vet bill of hundreds.



CRL said:


> i dont think bernie is angry at having to pay for the rats vets bills, any owner worth their weight in gold would do that. i think what is making her angry is that people who have never met her or the rats, people from a huge internet forum, are willing to send her money and medicine for these rats, yet their old owner wont.
> the baytril im sending bernie costs £50 a bottle from my vets, thats a days work for me. the bottle of ipakitine im sending costs £10 a bottle, thats 2 hours work for me. do you not think i will be out of pocket too. but it seems total strangers care about these rats more than the previous owner.


If they weren't on here, you wouldn't be able to ask the old owner anything. If you bought an animal off preloved or Gumtree, you wouldn't have people posting that they should be sending 50 quid bottles of medication, you'd have had the animal and that's it. I bought a rabbit off a breeder, who after just four months needed her eye removed, daily injections and months of medication. I told the breeder, so she could check her stock, but I never asked for nor expected her to give anything towards the bills. Because it was nothing to do with her once she'd sold the rabbit, it was up to me as the owner to sort it. Same with my dog, I wouldn't go and ask the farmer I got her from to help with any bills! It's my animal, not his, its not his job anymore to pay for her.



reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> BOO HOO in my world its whats called tough tittys last year I had to forgo my entry to Windsor Horse show due to a vet bill for Frankie (baby pony) who got an ulcer on his eye due to a fly bite, I save for it every year, I did not go as his welfare was much more important than *ME* getting myself stock/equipment blah di blah - my dishwasher broke down last March still dont have a new one but ponys have saddles that fit ..........oh!! and I just helped Bernie out with your fookin rats care!!
> 
> my 11yr old shows more maturity than you have in your entire little toe - I am walking away from this now before I type what I really think of you x
> 
> *RAGE :mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5:*


Erm, I needed equipment for my work. Without it I'd be stuck. I very much had to go.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Can someone tell me how much it costs to get from Wales to wherever Crufts is and is that more than the saving on buying stuff there at a reduced rate? 

This reminds me of the year my brother rang just before Christmas to say he and his wife were coming for christmas dinner, but they were not going to be buying my children any presents because they had just bought a new video player and just had a holiday.

I was stunned then and am stunned now.

I was planning on keeping out this, but really Wobbles you have said you have offered Bernie a solution? Do you think she is just waiting for your consent to offload these rats on to someone else to take care of? If that is what she wanted to do, no doubt she would and we would hear nothing of it. But she is attached to them and wants them to have the best.

I think that is what you are having trouble grasping.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

I think the point is this-

You rehomed these rats to Bernie (which I am glad you did, as they are ill and will never go without in Bernie's hands), and so it seems you now see them as her 'problem'.

You're saying you have no money to contribute to their upkeep, but you're buying new pets, who will most likely need vet treatment at some point. What will happen then? If I'm truly honest, it seems you have a bit of a hoarding attitude to me. You don't even have housing for them- they live in bins. Surely, accommodation is one of the first things you think about  

I for one, wouldn't DREAM of taking on animals I couldn't afford/ care for. And if I was in your position, I would be immensely grateful to Bernie and would be paying towards vet fees- whatever I could afford.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Wobbles said:


> I have never paid into the hundred for a hamster
> Cage already got, I just want to make another when I get time
> Food, already have due to having 6 hamsters anyway
> Toys, I have, last quite well, replaced when needed
> ...


FYI- thats not how 99% of Good breeders work if it is a hereditary problem. if one of my pups needed an eye removed 4 months after i'd sold it because of something that may have been preventable, i would be going to the owners house to give them the insurance excess that day- because its in my contract to do that; they are my responsibility to ensure they are safe for life. i'm sure the rattie breeders here would probably do the same.
so thats irrelevant. and the pg rat i have from [email protected], her bills are being forwarded to [email protected] for them to pay until she has been spayed- which they are also hopefully going to pay for.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> If they weren't on here, you wouldn't be able to ask the old owner anything. If you bought an animal off preloved or Gumtree, you wouldn't have people posting that they should be sending 50 quid bottles of medication, you'd have had the animal and that's it. I bought a rabbit off a breeder, who after just four months needed her eye removed, daily injections and months of medication. I told the breeder, so she could check her stock, but I never asked for nor expected her to give anything towards the bills. Because it was nothing to do with her once she'd sold the rabbit, it was up to me as the owner to sort it. Same with my dog, I wouldn't go and ask the farmer I got her from to help with any bills! It's my animal, not his, its not his job anymore to pay for her.


it really is a good job other people care about these rats. i could leave the bottle in the cupboard but your old rats need it more than mine do so i not going to begrudge them a medicine that might make them better. shame you dont feel the same, i thought you loved these rats?
no most people dont get in touch with the breeder/original owner to help with vets bills for most animals, but then most people dont take on others unwanted pets because they cant be bothered anymore, to then find out they are ill and the old owner didnt have the knowledge/ability/brain power to notice they were ill and something needed doing. passing it on to another person so they can pay the bills, while other people help, while sitting back and doing nothing but making excuses just smacks of pure and utter laziness and a lack of caring.


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> I have never paid into the hundred for a hamster
> Cage already got, I just want to make another when I get time
> Food, already have due to having 6 hamsters anyway
> Toys, I have, last quite well, replaced when needed
> ...


That is still money that would have been better spent on making sure these rats get the help they need.

Let me put this into perspective - these rats, your precious tia or whatever her names was before, and her 3 companions, could die. Sorry to be blunt but lets fact the facts. Now, most people in this situation would be more concerned with that little fact than about getting new 'stock' :frown2:

Oh, and just to point out - you're right, if bernie had brought them off preloved etc that she would be on her own but the fact is she is in contact with you through here, and you DO know the situation but you are far too selfish to do anything about it.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Can someone tell me how much it costs to get from Wales to wherever Crufts is and is that more than the saving on buying stuff there at a reduced rate?
> 
> This reminds me of the year my brother rang just before Christmas to say he and his wife were coming for christmas dinner, but they were not going to be buying my children any presents because they had just bought a new video player and just had a holiday.
> 
> ...


Costs £28 to get from Wales to Crufts on the train. And it's not just that, its that you get to keep up to date with all the new trims/ products/ equipment and try things out, which is something that is pretty important when your grooming.



JordanRose said:


> I think the point is this-
> 
> You rehomed these rats to Bernie (which I am glad you did, as they are ill and will never go without in Bernie's hands), and so it seems you now see them as her 'problem'.
> 
> ...


There is nothing wrong with bins. Many, many, many people keep hamsters in bin cages, theirs stickies all over hamster places on how to make them. Their better than cages in some respects. I am not a hoarder, that's someone who keeps as many as possible in tiny spaces to fit more in. Mine all have big cages, above size recommendations.



kodakkuki said:


> FYI- thats not how 99% of Good breeders work if it is a hereditary problem. if one of my pups needed an eye removed 4 months after i'd sold it because of something that may have been preventable, i would be going to the owners house to give them the insurance excess that day- because its in my contract to do that; they are my responsibility to ensure they are safe for life. i'm sure the rattie breeders here would probably do the same.
> so thats irrelevant. and the pg rat i have from [email protected], her bills are being forwarded to [email protected] for them to pay until she has been spayed- which they are also hopefully going to pay for.


The breeder is 195 miles away from me, she could hardly turn up on the doorstep.



CRL said:


> it really is a good job other people care about these rats. i could leave the bottle in the cupboard but your old rats need it more than mine do so i not going to begrudge them a medicine that might make them better. shame you dont feel the same, i thought you loved these rats?
> no most people dont get in touch with the breeder/original owner to help with vets bills for most animals, but then most people dont take on others unwanted pets because they cant be bothered anymore, to then find out they are ill and the old owner didnt have the knowledge/ability/brain power to notice they were ill and something needed doing. passing it on to another person so they can pay the bills, while other people help, while sitting back and doing nothing but making excuses just smacks of pure and utter laziness and a lack of caring.


If I had a £50 bottle of medication in the cupboard, I'd have sent it too, but I don't. Baytril is £23 a bottle here too, so you must have a huge amount of it.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Wobbles said:


> The breeder is 195 miles away from me, she could hardly turn up on the doorstep.


well that wasn't actually my point now was it?


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> I am not a hoarder, that's someone who keeps as many as possible in tiny spaces to fit more in. Mine all have big cages, above size recommendations.
> it.


I would disagree; hoarders are people who constantly take on animals, despite not being able to afford or cater for them. People who are not prioritising the animal's needs, but instead their own desire for a new fluffy pet.

Just my opinion.

Just because you can afford to buy the pet in the first place doesn't mean you can afford them in the long run. You need to consider all the other costs that ownership will entail.


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> There is nothing wrong with bins. Many, many, many people keep hamsters in bin cages, theirs stickies all over hamster places on how to make them. Their better than cages in some respects.* I am not a hoarder, that's someone who keeps as many as possible in tiny spaces to fit more in*. Mine all have big cages, above size recommendations.


Well, now isn't that funny. Especially when I've just read your other thread about your brand spanking new hamsters and happened to stumble across this post from you 



Wobbles said:


> I have seen Mary Poppins, never noticed her bag though
> 
> It's a 6 x 4 shed, and I have 8 hamsters and 3 gerbils in it. *It's a bit of a squash at the moment*, as the 2 newbies are in bin cages, but that's only until I manage to make them other cages. Otherwise they all fit in fine.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> If I had a £50 bottle of medication in the cupboard, I'd have sent it too, but I don't. Baytril is £23 a bottle here too, so you must have a huge amount of it.


i said the baytril was £50 a bottle, not £23 a bottle. no i dont have a huge ammount of it, i have 3/4 of a bottle in the cupboard for my boys. the unopened one is going to bernie as these rats need it more than my boys do. im lucky that my vet lets me bulk buy meds that i need so they are always in the cupboard and things like resp can be treated straight away.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

JordanRose said:


> I would disagree; hoarders are people who constantly take on animals, despite not being able to afford or cater for them. People who are not prioritising the animal's needs, but instead their own desire for a new fluffy pet.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Just because you can afford to buy the pet in the first place doesn't mean you can afford them in the long run. You need to consider all the other costs that ownership will entail.


I can afford them, I wouldn't have bought them if I couldn't. All my pets get what they need, I've had 3 at the vets in the last fortnight. If I couldn't afford it, they wouldn't have gone now would they?


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)




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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

B3rnie said:


>


or maybe......


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Micky93 said:


> Well, now isn't that funny. Especially when I've just read your other thread about your brand spanking new hamsters and happened to stumble across this post from you


I mean for me, the hamsters and gerbils have plenty of space. And once I've made up new cages, I'll have that space back.



CRL said:


> i said the baytril was £50 a bottle, not £23 a bottle. no i dont have a huge ammount of it, i have 3/4 of a bottle in the cupboard for my boys. the unopened one is going to bernie as these rats need it more than my boys do. im lucky that my vet lets me bulk buy meds that i need so they are always in the cupboard and things like resp can be treated straight away.


Well mine won't. They wouldn't sell bottles of stuff like that to people, especially when they know I wouldn't need that much.

That's very good Bernie, did you draw it on photoshop?


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

My vet also lets me buy bulk bottles of stuff for my rabbits, she knows I know what I am doing & also a quick intervention in the case of stasis is better than waiting until i can get to the vet. Maybe I should do some ratty baking this weekend? (As in baking for rats, not baking of rats). Was going to make some dog treats so I may as well see if they can double up as ratty treats eh?? I kinda feel sorry for these guys, although I feel they have had a lucky escape.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Lopside said:


> Was going to make some dog treats so I may as well see if they can double up as ratty treats eh?? .


Ohh that would go down a *treat* :cornut:

See what I did there, ehh, eh??

:lol:


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

STUPID QUESTION ALERT:

What do rats eat? Are they omnivores? 

(I hardly know anything about rats, which is precisely why I don't have any  )


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

Wobbles said:


> Hamsters and gerbils aren't that expensive. One off cage price and toys, bedding, food, and the odd vet trip. Not the same as constantly back and forth to the vet. I really don't get the problem, I bought 2 tiny hamsters for £18, not another dog for £800. I've got 2 dogs, 2 rabbits, 8 hamsters and 3 gerbils, apart from possibly the dogs, hardly likely to break the bank.


what if your bunnies end up with problems with their teeth or gut? a lot of problems can occur all of a sudden and cost a fortune as it takes a specialist vet to be able to operate on such small animals as not every vet will feel confident enough to deal with operating on such a small animal.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

JordanRose said:


> STUPID QUESTION ALERT:
> 
> What do rats eat? Are they omnivores?
> 
> (I hardly know anything about rats, which is precisely why I don't have any  )


Yes they are omnivores they can eat pretty much everything but spicy food and Oranges - The white part on the peelings and outer layer of a peeled orange is harmful to male rats. :thumbup1:


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Ohh that would go down a *treat* :cornut:
> 
> See what I did there, ehh, eh??
> 
> :lol:


pretty weak actually.....but i will let that one go..... :ihih:


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Lopside said:


> pretty weak actually.....but i will let that one go..... :ihih:


Well it made me laugh -finds the extra bag of mini chedders to nom-


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Yes they are omnivores they can eat pretty much everything but spicy food and Oranges - The white part on the peelings and outer layer of a peeled orange is harmful to male rats. :thumbup1:


Oh really? That's interesting about the oranges! Does it contain some kind of harmful chemical or something?

And while I'm on that, can I ask you- beacon of bunny knowledge- why exactly are bulbs toxic to rabbits? Is it to do with something they produce 

Sorry, off topic, but I've wondered this for ages!!  :lol:


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Citrus fruits are harmful to male rats it causes kidney problems.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

JordanRose said:


> Oh really? That's interesting about the oranges! Does it contain some kind of harmful chemical or something?
> 
> And while I'm on that, can I ask you- beacon of bunny knowledge- why exactly are bulbs toxic to rabbits? Is it to do with something they produce
> 
> Sorry, off topic, but I've wondered this for ages!!  :lol:


erm, actually she is commonly known as the small and furry guru :cornut:


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

blade100 said:


> Citrus fruits are harmful to male rats it causes kidney problems.


Ah, I see! Only to males?

They sound like fascinating creatures! I might find out more about them at some stage...


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Yes only male rats


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

JordanRose said:


> Oh really? That's interesting about the oranges! Does it contain some kind of harmful chemical or something?
> 
> It's the d-limonene in the rind, it is a kidney cancer inducing chemical but only for male rats, females don't tend to have an issue with it, however I play safe so none of my rats get oranges.
> 
> ...


My answers are in red


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> My answers are in red


Ooh! Thank you Small and Furry Guru! 

Very interesting :yesnod:


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

JordanRose said:


> STUPID QUESTION ALERT:
> 
> What do rats eat? Are they omnivores?
> 
> (I hardly know anything about rats, which is precisely why I don't have any  )


I have admitted I shouldn't have bought them not knowing anything about them.



MrRustyRead said:


> what if your bunnies end up with problems with their teeth or gut? a lot of problems can occur all of a sudden and cost a fortune as it takes a specialist vet to be able to operate on such small animals as not every vet will feel confident enough to deal with operating on such a small animal.


Not sure, depends how serious it was, if it was safe to operate,how fair it would be to put them through something, and how it would effect them or if they'd recover properly. It's really hard to say, I'll cross that bridge if I ever come to it.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

Wobbles said:


> Not sure, depends how serious it was, if it was safe to operate,how fair it would be to put them through something, and how it would effect them or if they'd recover properly. It's really hard to say, I'll cross that bridge if I ever come to it.


thats why instead of spending it on more u should save it for if the others need treatment


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## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

Blow me down, taken me a while to read and try and dissect some posts to figure out the point they are actually trying to make.....still none the wiser 


Wobbles I thought it was very brave and big of you to rehome the rats to Bernie, it takes a lot to admit you can't care or have the knowledge about things, especially on an open forum. 
Although seeing threads since then I am disappointed in your attitude. I know you said you didn't know the rats are unwell but a lot of the random comments you like to pop in are uncalled for and very disheartening given all what Bernie is doing. 

Noone has stated that you have to give Bernie money, but openly going on about how you are going on trips, buying more animals etc is a tad bit insensitive, given the circumstances. 

I go without a lot for my pets, had a very bad accident which meant I had to totally quite my career and start trying to get into something different. So the excuse I can't spare a couple of quid but buying "stock" for £100 is a bloody laugh. 



A hoarder doesn't have to have 200 cats, it's a case of taking on more then they can look after/afford/provide adequate care for. 

A lot of my pets have passed away, and I know full well given circumstances I wouldn't be able to afford a whacking great vet bill, even though I can happily buy said animal and feed,vet,care properally I don't, however tempting it is. 

My rabbit had his leg amputated........ emergancy vets sunday, overnight stay and the day of operation being a bank holiday......
Cost most then having the vet out to sew up my ponies mangled leg.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

MrRustyRead said:


> thats why instead of spending it on more u should save it for if the others need treatment


I have got some, as their not insured, but I can't start wittering it down or mine will be stuck.



grapes said:


> Blow me down, taken me a while to read and try and dissect some posts to figure out the point they are actually trying to make.....still none the wiser
> 
> Wobbles I thought it was very brave and big of you to rehome the rats to Bernie, it takes a lot to admit you can't care or have the knowledge about things, especially on an open forum.
> Although seeing threads since then I am disappointed in your attitude. I know you said you didn't know the rats are unwell but a lot of the random comments you like to pop in are uncalled for and very disheartening given all what Bernie is doing.
> ...


The thing is, the bill is apparently into the hundreds, a fact I didn't know until it was mentioned on this thread. So sending a tenner or even twenty seems a bit of an insult for such a high ongoing bill . If they had needed £25/30 of meds one off, I'd have paid it, but I simply can't afford to give enough to make much difference to such a cost, Bernie your very lucky if you can. I'm not in regular work, with a guaranteed paycheck each week, so I can't say for certain I'll have a tenner or whatever spare.


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## grapes (Dec 13, 2012)

I'm pretty sure Bernie is like me and probably many others on here, doesn't matter what the donation would be it's the thought of even offering a couple of quid that would matter.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> I have got some, as their not insured, but I can't start wittering it down or mine will be stuck.
> 
> The thing is, the bill is apparently into the hundreds, a fact I didn't know until it was mentioned on this thread. So sending a tenner or even twenty seems a bit of an insult for such a high ongoing bill . If they had needed £25/30 of meds one off, I'd have paid it, but I simply can't afford to give enough to make much difference to such a cost, Bernie your very lucky if you can. I'm not in regular work, with a guaranteed paycheck each week, so I can't say for certain I'll have a tenner or whatever spare.


every little helps, i found an injured, emaciated, half dead stray cat a while ago, we managed to track his owner down, but he ended up staying with me, i spent over 500 fixing him up, and saving his life, i never told his old owner how much i spent, but i let him know when he went in for the operation, and he insisted on giving me some money, i had turned him down previously as if i was keeping him it wasnt fair, but he insisted on sending me someting, he sent £50, £50 out of £500+ is nothing, but its the gesture that counts, and it ment i had a bit more money to spoil him, and i was extreamly grateful for it, in no way did i see it as an insult.

the saying every little helps is true, and if you would happily pay if it was only £25-£30, why not send that along any way?


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

> *What people are annoyed about isn't the fact that you don't have the money to pay for the vet bills or to give some compensation to Bernie, but the fact you are willing to pay £75+ on two more animals which are now in your care. *If you had come on here and explained how sorry you were for not realising they were ill (which you have done) and explained you didn't have the money at the current time I doubt anyone would have had a problem - the problem is that you've prioritised elsewhere rather than just not having the money.


Just because it has obviously been missed yet again....I don't begrudge having to spend money on vet bills, I wouldn't take on any animal without taking possible vet bills into account. I only mentioned the rough amount on this thread because I was asked, not to play the sympathy card, but to try to use it as an excuse to educate anyone that might be reading this thread that rats aren't cheap and shouldn't be considered as such...That is all...

You know what I wouldn't accept any money from you any way because it isn't about the money for me, it is the fact you know they are under constant vet care, you know they are ill, yet you would much rather spend nearly £100 to get new animals rather than simply offer a token amount for the animals you passed on.... As I said, I wouldn't have accepted the money, however the gesture would have spoken a thousand words....

Lets say I am extremely disappointed, I really am :frown2:


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

I was told off last time I posted on a thread of this sort. But I am surprised that people are actually shocked by this child's attitude. She managed to change people's opinions by writing a huge essay on how sorry she was. but am afraid I have too much experience in life to see past the charade that was the apology. I have met too many people like her. 

Wobbles what would happen if your hamsters got poorly? I guess we will expect a thread in the rehoming section.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

niki87 said:


> I was told off last time I posted on a thread of this sort. But I am surprised that people are actually shocked by this child's attitude. She managed to change people's opinions by writing a huge essay on how sorry she was. but am afraid I have too much experience in life to see past the charade that was the apology. I have met too many people like her.
> 
> Wobbles what would happen if your hamsters got poorly? I guess we will expect a thread in the rehoming section.


I am sorry, it was NOT a charade, I genuinely was upset at what happened. And I haven't done anything wrong, I bought myself 2 hamsters, that I have been after for months, with money my nan gave me. And their pedigree hamsters, so people cant say I'm buying [email protected] stock. I cannot afford to reimburse Bernie for what she's paid out, not if its that high, I simply do not have it to give.

My hamsters won't end up in the rehoming section under any circumstances, ever.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> I am sorry, it was NOT a charade, I genuinely was upset at what happened. And I haven't done anything wrong, I bought myself 2 hamsters, that I have been after for months, with money my nan gave me. And their pedigree hamsters, so people cant say I'm buying [email protected] stock. I cannot afford to reimburse Bernie for what she's paid out, not if its that high, I simply do not have it to give.
> 
> My hamsters won't end up in the rehoming section under any circumstances, ever.


so what about my comment above?


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

niki87 said:


> I was told off last time I posted on a thread of this sort. But I am surprised that people are actually shocked by *this child's attitude*. She managed to change people's opinions by writing a huge essay on how sorry she was. but am afraid I have too much experience in life to see past the charade that was the apology. I have met too many people like her.
> 
> Wobbles what would happen if your hamsters got poorly? I guess we will expect a thread in the rehoming section.


From what I recall, she is the same age or older as me- so not a child.  I could've accepted that attitude from a kid, but nope.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

kodakkuki said:


> From what I recall, she is the same age or older as me- so not a child.  I could've accepted that attitude from a kid, but nope.


Sorry I was referring to her immaturity not her physical age.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

kodakkuki said:


> From what I recall, she is the same age or older as me- so not a child.  I could've accepted that attitude from a kid, but nope.


Agreed, she is deffo older than me... not a child, and never would I have such a stinking attitude.

How many times do people have to say it Wobbles.....??

Not reimburse.... but a small, ten quid if that's all you can squeeze out, *GESTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

It's hard not to start throwing out insults. All I will say is some minds only flicker light like the Cola machine in a closed canteen... :frown2:


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Even if she does offer any money it won't be through her own kindness it will be because we've been telling her she ought to do.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

so how many times have you inquired on the health of these rats since you found out? how many private communications have you made about their situation with Bernie? how many times have you asked?

or is it you have only found out of the welfare of your rats on threads like this on this forum!!

you are surprised by the depth and cost of the treatments yet you have known they have been poor/in need of help for over a month now!!

dont bother answering I know the replys - I know your pap excuses and I know what kind of animal owner you are .....................................


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

halfeatenapple said:


> Agreed, she is deffo older than me... not a child, and never would I have such a stinking attitude.
> 
> How many times do people have to say it Wobbles.....??
> 
> ...


sorry but that last bit just made me laugh!! never have i heard that simerly before so had to rep you for it :biggrin:


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

halfeatenapple said:


> Agreed, she is deffo older than me... not a child, and never would I have such a stinking attitude.
> 
> How many times do people have to say it Wobbles.....??
> 
> ...


If that cola thing's an insult or whatever, its gone over my head as I've no idea what it means

Is ten quid really going to look any good though in a two/ three hundred pound bill? Yes, every little helps, but that honestly isn't going to help much! And Bernie's said she wouldn't take it now anyway. And if I did give something, everyone would just say I'd only done it out of pressure, which is no good.

But I seriously can't do right for doing wrong on here:
I bought a rat, not good enough, told to get more, despite not being allowed any -so I did
Couldn't manage them, not good enough, told to rehomed them - so I did
Wanted to keep my favourite, not good enough, couldn't as they had to go together - so I did

But nothing is ever good enough is it? No matter what I do, its not friggin good enough, never has been, never will be. If I repaid every penny, cent and dime back, and waved a wand and magicked those rats right, it _still_ would not be good enough for most. I really don't know why I bothered, should have just give 'em my mate and saved myself the earache.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

*yawn*

:Yawn: :Yawn: :Yawn: :Yawn:

wanders off to find her mini violin to play a sad sad song diddums


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> If that cola thing's an insult or whatever, its gone over my head as I've no idea what it means
> 
> Is ten quid really going to look any good though in a two/ three hundred pound bill? Yes, every little helps, but that honestly isn't going to help much! And Bernie's said she wouldn't take it now anyway. And if I did give something, everyone would just say I'd only done it out of pressure, which is no good.
> 
> ...


wobbles, would you REALLY REALLY want to turn back time and have given those rats to a clueless friend? where you have admitted they wouldnt have recieved the vet care they NEEDED, you really dont understand how bad these rats were, if they had of gone just a few more days without vet care there would have been NO return, they WOULD have died, is that what you want? would you rather they had died?

sit down, shut up, and listen to people.
the fact of the matter is, you are a spoilt selfish child, dont you dare protest at that, listen for once in your life.
you dont have any money set aside to help these rats, which are in this condition BECAUSE of you, NOTHING like when you bought your rabbit who did her self a mischief which resulted in her having to have her eye removed, if she had come to you WITH the damaged eye then it would be the same boat, if she had come tyo you with a damaged eye, that had clearly been damaged for a LONG time, would you have paid that bill yourself, or would you have kicked up a massive hissy fit and demanded the breeder pay atleast some towards it? and no bernie isnt kicking up the fuss, it is us, because quite frankly we are DISGUSTED at your blase attitude. you dont have the money set asside, so what if one of your rabbits needs a dental? what if they get an abcess? what if you need another eye removal? heck what if one of your hamster gets pyometra and needs an emergancy spay? how are you going to pay them? heck you have no hope, you have some money, and what do you go do with it? spend £70 on TWO hamsters, surely that money would have been put to better use in a vet fund, and you could have got 2 rescue hamsters, or even 2 hamsters from a local breeder? but no, you throw money away left right and center because you WANT, while bernies left scraping the bottom of the barrel cleaning up YOUR mess YOUR mistakes, and all you can say is "i didnt know" "£10 wont help" just £10 would be a great help, it would cover half the cost of the next consult, and i know that doesnt really matter as bernie doesnt want your money, but untill you can understand that fact then you can just do one love, because it is actions and gestures that count, they are called goodwill gestures for a reason.

now go away and think about what i have put, read my words a few times if you need to, but dont reply until they really sink in and hit home and you UNDERSTAND what we are all saying.

your actions are selfish and thoughtless, you need to think of the animals you currently have and not think of ones you want even more. those actions are typical of a hoarder, you can not see what is right infront of your nose because you are too busy staring at the shiny sparkly thing over in the distance somewhere.

this is not ment as an attack, this is simply the honest truth and its ment as an eye opener.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

so basically its everyone else fault?
i did wonder when you would get to blaming everyone else for your problems.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> If that cola thing's an insult or whatever, its gone over my head as I've no idea what it means
> 
> Is ten quid really going to look any good though in a two/ three hundred pound bill? Yes, every little helps, but that honestly isn't going to help much! And Bernie's said she wouldn't take it now anyway. And if I did give something, everyone would just say I'd only done it out of pressure, which is no good.
> 
> ...


YOUR earache... not the well being of the rats... but save YOU the ear ache... uh huh... sounds familiar.

As someone who genuinely is bloody skint (Before anyone worries, I budget budget budget for my rats, including vet money saved every month, toys, bedding, litter, and obv food allowance etc) I can assure you that when someone hands me a fiver out of nothing but the goodness of their hearts I cry. This has happened a few times. When someone has bought me a multi-bag of crisps (which I don't buy myself as I see it as an unnecessary luxury) I cry... They haven't made me rich suddenly and my food remains basic or home made but it's the thought, the gesture... they have shown they care, even though I know they can't change my situation as they have their own things to sort out.

It's never the amount that someone can give, it's the gesture.
You say £18 wont make a dent in the hundreds it has cost Bernie?? Do you know nothing about dents?? That is EXACTLY what it will do, dent, a little, which it better than no denting at all. The reason she wouldn't take and why no one would applaud you for giving now is because you have had over a month to offer money off your own back. Bernie hadn't shared the cost with us before now but we all already knew she was paying out!!

How can you not get this??

How is this so difficult to understand??


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Lil Miss said:


> sorry but that last bit just made me laugh!! never have i heard that simerly before so had to rep you for it :biggrin:


What is rep exactly??

I feel like I have heard it somewhere... or something similar... I don't want to take credit cos I feel like it wasn't me...


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

halfeatenapple said:


> What is rep exactly??
> 
> I feel like I have heard it somewhere... or something similar... I don't want to take credit cos I feel like it wasn't me...


o to the top of the page and click on 'edit profile'. then scroll to the botto of the page and you will see green or red blobs with a username and sometimes a message. those are rep.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

halfeatenapple said:


> What is rep exactly??
> 
> I feel like I have heard it somewhere... or something similar... I don't want to take credit cos I feel like it wasn't me...


rep adds to, or removes the green blobs under your post count, adding rep is a good thing  you give rep by clicking the little weighing scale thing at the top right of a post between the post number and the report post button. you then choose either approve (good rep) or disapprove (bad rep) and it adds to that members reputation (green blobs)


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