# My current babies



## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

Thought I'd share pics of my current litter (all reserved from our waiting list)...











__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content



















Minks (one potential havana but too early to tell)









Buffs (possibly topaz - again, too early to tell yet)


















Agoutis


















Blazed boy









Moo print









I've missed a few, but basically we have 12 babies...10 bucks and 2 does, in a mix of black, agouti, buff (or topaz) and mink (poss. havana - which is mink + one copy of the red eye gene).

This is mum - Rhye (agouti capped - posh name is Gwerthfawr Seven Seas of Rhye)...









And daddy Sloan (black capped - Hellstorm Diagnosis Murder)...









Also a really naff quality video of them - this is what I find when I lift up the igloo...


It was supposed to be my last capped litter, but the more time I spend with these babies, the more I want to continue them!


----------



## Yorkshire_Rose (Aug 5, 2009)

Awww that last baby looks so sweet!

x


----------



## jaxx (Aug 10, 2009)

I've just been squealing at each photo, they're so cute!!


----------



## vet-2-b (Sep 25, 2008)

Awwwwwwwwwww so cute lol i cant blame you if i had breed them i think i be having more lol


----------



## Flissy (Jul 27, 2009)

Aww they are so sweet! Makes me want ratties even more


----------



## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

What beautiful pics..

love the Buffs and Minks


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

*sneaks in*

Yoink!

*sneaks back out*

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

tHEY ARE so BEAUTIFUL! My Mum won't let me have a ratty, but I'm sure she'd melt if she saw the little moo print one. I want!!!


----------



## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

LOL - I just saw your signature pic and fell in love with your greyhounds. I've always had greyhounds or lurchers up until last September when Sky (our old lurcher) passed away. We have Blu the dane now, and he's enough for us at present (he's old and going through some health issues), but I really miss having a pointy dog about. I used to run the Groovy Greys website (still about but has gone to pot since I had the triplets).


----------



## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I was just thinking I could err visit you since you are fairly local and err look at your baby rattys, you understand I would in no way pinch some but if any were to go missing following my visit it obviously would not be my fault, either that or could you pm me your address and a list of times when your house will be empty.


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

:001_wub: They are soo cute!!!!!!!!! I love that some of the babies have matching black spot on their back :001_wub: And I love the show names of the mum and dad (is it sad that I know where both of them originate :?)

(Excuse my ignorance, but does inheriting only one copy of the red eye gene in the topaz ratties present with a difference in the phenotype of eye or coat colour? Just curious as to how you know only one copy is present!!) 

P.S. Make sure you keep TDM away from your ratties. It would be a violation of her 12 step rataholics annonymous programme :lol:


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

zany_toon said:


> :001_wub: They are soo cute!!!!!!!!! I love that some of the babies have matching black spot on their back :001_wub: And I love the show names of the mum and dad (is it sad that I know where both of them originate :?)
> 
> (Excuse my ignorance, but does inheriting only one copy of the red eye gene in the topaz ratties present with a difference in the phenotype of eye or coat colour? Just curious as to how you know only one copy is present!!)
> 
> P.S. Make sure you keep TDM away from your ratties. It would be a violation of her 12 step rataholics annonymous programme :lol:


Don't quote me on this but it would be because the mum and dad both carry the PED (pink eyed dilute) gene... You can't definitely know that only one copy is present except by the colour I guess, which in this case is Havana (which I had never heard of before today *goes to look it up*. Both parents obviously carry PED, as there are pink eyed babies in the litter so it's entirely possible that some of the babies carry one copy of the PED gene 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong! I'm still learning about genetics 

Peace
Akai-Chan

[EDIT] just had a quick browse around and mink is the base colour... one copy of the RED is havana, 2 copies is cinnamon... though I'm a bit confused cos it looks like the babies have pink eyes not ruby eyes? What do the parents carry?


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

Akai-Chan said:


> Don't quote me on this but it would be because the mum and dad both carry the red eye gene... You can't definitely know that only one copy is present except by the colour I guess, which in this case is Havana (which I had never heard of before today *goes to look it up*. Both parents obviously carry red eye, as there are red eyed babies in the litter so it;s entirely possible that some of the babies carry one copy of the red eyed gene
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


Ah, so the smart alec has been doing some genetics homework :lol: I just wondered why they would have a different name when they difference isn't expressed. In all other animals the animal is named only for the obvious expression of present genes in the phenotype. If only one gene is present, it needs to be expressed even partially for it to be named (e.g. in sweet peas the pink or sweetheart ones have one copy of the red gene colour and one of white. THe red is dominant, hence the colour. In other circumstances the two genes are equally expressed, which is known as incomplete dominance [this would mean for example a black rat and a white rat having a rat baby which is exactly one half black and one half white.) So, does Hanavane mean that they have darker eyes or a slightly different coloured coat? *waits patiently on the student going back to doing her homework to give an answer* :wink:


----------



## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

Yep - we knew both mum and dad carried RE gene, as Sloan has had a litter here before which contained buff, and Rhye has RE in her pedigree. So when we found a ruby eyed baby that looked like a lighter, warmer mink, we assumed he *might* be havana. Having said that, the capped gene also lightens eyes sometimes (all marked rats get diluted somewhat), so it could just be that he's a mink with ruby eyes. It's too early to tell, really, as his eyes only opened the day before yesterday. He is much warmer looking than his mink sister though 

Edited to add - they are most definitely buff/topaz, buff and topaz are born with red eyes that darken to a darker ruby, however in marked rats this will never be as dark as in self. Here's some of Sloan's buff babies from his past litter, and present photo too...










Eyes already darker









My camera doesn't help - the above pic was taken with a digital SLR, this next one is with my point and shoot and was taken 2 weeks after the last one:









6 months old


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

zany_toon said:


> Ah, so the smart alec has been doing some genetics homework :lol: I just wondered why they would have a different name when they difference isn't expressed. In all other animals the animal is named only for the obvious expression of present genes in the phenotype. If only one gene is present, it needs to be expressed even partially for it to be named (e.g. in sweet peas the pink or sweetheart ones have one copy of the red gene colour and one of white. THe red is dominant, hence the colour. In other circumstances the two genes are equally expressed, which is known as incomplete dominance [this would mean for example a black rat and a white rat having a rat baby which is exactly one half black and one half white.) So, does Hanavane mean that they have darker eyes or a slightly different coloured coat? *waits patiently on the student going back to doing her homework to give an answer* :wink:


The one recessive makes a slight difference I think... But as it;s a recessive it wouldn't show through? It makes sense really if having 2 copies lightens the coat a lot, thathaving one copy would only lighten it a little, even if the RED gene itself doesn't show through 

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

Akai-Chan said:


> [EDIT] just had a quick browse around and mink is the base colour... one copy of the RED is havana, 2 copies is cinnamon... though I'm a bit confused cos it looks like the babies have pink eyes not ruby eyes? What do the parents carry?


Two copies of the RE gene on a mink rat would make a mink based buff, which would be a paler buff with lighter eyes. A non-agouti rat cannot be cinnamon, cinnamon is mink agouti. Agouti is dominant. A self rat would not be turned agouti by the RE gene.


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Yep - we knew both mum and dad carried RE gene, as Sloan has had a litter here before which contained buff, and Rhye has RE in her pedigree. So when we found a ruby eyed baby that looked like a lighter, warmer mink, we assumed he *might* be havana. Having said that, the capped gene also lightens eyes sometimes (all marked rats get diluted somewhat), so it could just be that he's a mink with ruby eyes. It's too early to tell, really, as his eyes only opened the day before yesterday. He is much warmer looking than his mink sister though
> 
> Edited to add - they are most definitely buff/topaz, buff and topaz are born with red eyes that darken to a darker ruby, however in marked rats this will never be as dark as in self. Here's some of Sloan's buff babies from his past litter, and present photo too...


Ooooh do the eyes darken to ruby then? Never realised that before. Gorgeous rats by the way 

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Two copies of the RE gene on a mink rat would make a mink based buff, which would be a paler buff with lighter eyes. A non-agouti rat cannot be cinnamon, cinnamon is mink agouti. Agouti is dominant. A self rat would not be turned agouti by the RE gene.


Ok I'm confusing PED and RED. Still elarning about this genetics stuff  I think I also assumed that the babies would be agouti based because one of the parents is agouti capped and A-mm = Cinnamon?

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

It'd be the same with PED. PE stands for pink eyed. A pink eyed mink would be a very pale champagne.

Cinnamon is mink agouti - eg an agouti rat carrying two copies of the mink gene.


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> Yep - we knew both mum and dad carried RE gene, as Sloan has had a litter here before which contained buff, and Rhye has RE in her pedigree. So when we found a ruby eyed baby that looked like a lighter, warmer mink, we assumed he *might* be havana. Having said that, the capped gene also lightens eyes sometimes (all marked rats get diluted somewhat), so it could just be that he's a mink with ruby eyes. It's too early to tell, really, as his eyes only opened the day before yesterday. He is much warmer looking than his mink sister though
> 
> Edited to add - they are most definitely buff/topaz, buff and topaz are born with red eyes that darken to a darker ruby, however in marked rats this will never be as dark as in self. Here's some of Sloan's buff babies from his past litter, and present photo too...
> 
> ...


They are very cute regardless - I'm just a nerd and need to know these thinks :crazy:



Akai-Chan said:


> The one recessive makes a slight difference I think... But as it;s a recessive it wouldn't show through? It makes sense really if having 2 copies lightens the coat a lot, thathaving one copy would only lighten it a little, even if the RED gene itself doesn't show through
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


In that case it would be partially dominant as partial dominance means it is "less recessive" as the other genes inherited (e.g. blonde is recessive to all hair colours and red is recessive to all but blonde colours but if a red head and a blonde had a kid the kid would be strawberry blond. Both genes give a mix that is neither here nor there ) *kicks Red back to doing her homework so she can learn this* :lol:


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

zany_toon said:


> They are very cute regardless - I'm just a nerd and need to know these thinks :crazy:
> 
> In that case it would be partially dominant as partial dominance means it is "less recessive" as the other genes inherited (e.g. blonde is recessive to all hair colours and red is recessive to all but blonde colours but if a red head and a blonde had a kid the kid would be strawberry blond. Both genes give a mix that is neither here nor there ) *kicks Red back to doing her homework so she can learn this* :lol:


Oh shaddup I'm trying  Getting there slowly, I just need to start writing things down so I don't forget them :mad2: 

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

I want!! They are absolutely gorgeous!!


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> It'd be the same with PED. PE stands for pink eyed. A pink eyed mink would be a very pale champagne.
> 
> Cinnamon is mink agouti - eg an agouti rat carrying two copies of the mink gene.


Okkie, thankee for explaining and apologies if I don;t explain things very well... I'm still learning and that combined with not being the most eloquent of people doesn't help 

*Goes back to doing my genetics homework*

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

Akai-Chan said:


> Oh shaddup I'm trying  Getting there slowly, I just need to start writing things down so I don't forget them :mad2:
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


:ciappa: This is what a good little Red should be doing







:lol:


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

zany_toon said:


> :ciappa: This is what a good little Red should be doing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:tt1_002: I know the genetics for my blues, I'm slowly expanding onto other things  Give me time (and also possibly some help from a uni education )and I'll be a genetics demon! You won;t be able to keep up with me!

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## LisaLQ (Dec 19, 2009)

I only know the basics - mainly of what I breed. But ask me what phenotype and genotypes are and I'm a bit 

And I'm really naff at punnet squares!


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> I only know the basics - mainly of what I breed. But ask me what phenotype and genotypes are and I'm a bit
> 
> And I'm really naff at punnet squares!


Yeah I'm breeding roans and blues so I know those. Everything else I'm still learning  I'm pretty good at punnet squares (due to an awesome GCSE biology teacher) and I just about have the genotype written for most of my rats  Getting there slowly!

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Akai-Chan said:


> :tt1_002: Give me time (and also possibly some help from a uni education )and I'll be a genetics demon! You won;t be able to keep up with me!


Ahhh don't mean to disappoint but I don't think Uni will help with day to day rat genetics .... sowwy! Very little of it's been published and there's still more not properly researched... and before you get all excited, the mainstream of genetics ain't much interested in a few different shades of pet rat colours; shame, but true... Roy Robinson barely managed it himself. They are much more interested in mammalian genetic models of human genotypes, for research into our own genetic diseases.


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> I only know the basics - mainly of what I breed. But ask me what phenotype and genotypes are and I'm a bit
> 
> And I'm really naff at punnet squares!


You seem to be doing really well!!

Genotype refers to the genes that are inherited (so even the ones that don't show up in the actually rat but that it carries - like your ratties' parents with red eyes.)

Phenotype refers to what actually shows up from the genotype. So in the case of your rats, several of your rats discplay red eyes so they have red eyes in their phenotype 

I studied bioloigy as a degree and that's about all I can remember - I loved genetics so that stuff really sticks!!! As for punnet squares, I can see why you find them confusing if you are using them to work out several genes at once!! They can make your head do this :crazy: if you do too many


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

MerlinsMum said:


> Ahhh don't mean to disappoint but I don't think Uni will help with day to day rat genetics .... sowwy! Very little of it's been published and there's still more not properly researched... and before you get all excited, the mainstream of genetics ain't much interested in a few different shades of pet rat colours; shame, but true... Roy Robinson barely managed it himself. They are much more interested in mammalian genetic models of human genotypes, for research into our own genetic diseases.


Very true. Most genetics will focus on ape and human DNA or depending on the course viral and bacterial DNA. Seldom few look at anything else due to the similarity of primates to humans and viruses/bacteria are a main focus to try and work out the viral vectors to introduce plasmids and make innoculations.


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

MerlinsMum said:


> Ahhh don't mean to disappoint but I don't think Uni will help with day to day rat genetics .... sowwy! Very little of it's been published and there's still more not properly researched... and before you get all excited, the mainstream of genetics ain't much interested in a few different shades of pet rat colours; shame, but true... Roy Robinson barely managed it himself. They are much more interested in mammalian genetic models of human genotypes, for research into our own genetic diseases.


I was more thinking it would help my understanding of genetics in general. Bear in mind all I have to go on here is a coupld of GCSE biology classes, most of which I was asleep halfway through  I have the most basic of understanding and the more I understand of it, the better I can get in understanding my specfic interest, in this case rat genetics 

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

MerlinsMum said:


> Ahhh don't mean to disappoint but I don't think Uni will help with day to day rat genetics .... sowwy! Very little of it's been published and there's still more not properly researched... and before you get all excited, the mainstream of genetics ain't much interested in a few different shades of pet rat colours; shame, but true... Roy Robinson barely managed it himself. They are much more interested in mammalian genetic models of human genotypes, for research into our own genetic diseases.


Now, you now how much i love you............which i do very much do.............but your knowledge makes me see stars LOL!

I need to borrow you........yes thats a great idea, i will steal you....................


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> Now, you now how much i love you............which i do very much do.............but your knowledge makes me see stars LOL!
> 
> I need to borrow you........yes thats a great idea, i will steal you....................


I think someone might be a little bit squiffy  been on the wine acacia? 

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Akai-Chan said:


> I think someone might be a little bit squiffy  been on the wine acacia?
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


LMFAO!! I am indeedy! Piddled..........and i love it!  

But really she astounds me all the time! I do love her! She is awesome and i love talking to her.


----------



## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> LMFAO!! I am indeedy! Piddled..........and i love it!
> 
> But really she astounds me all the time! I do love her! She is awesome and i love talking to her.


Is she your beshtesht friend in the whole wide world and you love her? 

Peace
Akai-Chan


----------



## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Akai-Chan said:


> Is she your beshtesht friend in the whole wide world and you love her?
> 
> Peace
> Akai-Chan


I don't know her personally but i do love her! She has animal knowledge i can only dream of!!

I have studying then for pure pleasure for a long long time and still do but i want her knowledge!!

And she is a lovely person.


----------



## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> Now, you now how much i love you............which i do very much do.............but your knowledge makes me see stars LOL!
> 
> I need to borrow you........yes thats a great idea, i will steal you....................


You can steal me any time you like honey but I come as a package and Merlin might eat your dog.... sad to say!


----------



## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

MerlinsMum said:


> You can steal me any time you like honey but I come as a package and Merlin might eat your dog.... sad to say!


Ok sounds like a plan....i will steal you! Pretend you me...and then i will look amazing in my next write up  

Although we do have an issue with dogs........well ok we will keep them seperate!

I know you come as a package as do i!! Lol!!


----------

