# English Staffy vs Irish Staffy



## Guest

As a Staffy lover im doing as much research as poss on the breed in general. I have asked this question elsewhere n no-one has answered it yet and I know there are a few Staffy people on here so you might be able to help.
What is the difference between a English and a Irish or is it just a different name for the same breed?
Are Irish Staffies always blue, I'm asking this as on the other site I visit they all seem to contain blue in them either a full blue or a pied etc.
Any info is always appreciated xx


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## tashi

Jem85 said:


> As a Staffy lover im doing as much research as poss on the breed in general. I have asked this question elsewhere n no-one has answered it yet and I know there are a few Staffy people on here so you might be able to help.
> What is the difference between a English and a Irish or is it just a different name for the same breed?
> Are Irish Staffies always blue, I'm asking this as on the other site I visit they all seem to contain blue in them either a full blue or a pied etc.
> Any info is always appreciated xx


Sallyanne will be along for this one


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## Guest

The Irish Stafford is not a breed,it is a breed type.
They are leaner and usually taller than your average SBT.They are not recognised by any registration body.You will see IKC registered,don't be fooled into thinking it's Irish Kennel Club,it a registration club run by Ed Reid and stands for Intercontinal Kennel Club.(as well as the Irish KC)Ed Reid was known in dog circles for keeping and breeding so called pitts.
I did question the breeding behind these dogs,they have a breed standard 3 infact,all different, yet dogs are not bred to the standard,infact many so called Irish don't conform in any way shape or form to the standard.
Alot of people breeding these dogs prefer to breed to the old 1935 standard for the SBT,hence the more leaner taller dog.
As for colour no there not just blue,they come in all colours,pretty much the same as the SBT,again the Blues show faults the same as your KC Reg SBT.

I consider breeding away from the standard for the SBT we currently have dangerous in regard to the DDA.


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## Guest

I've read a bit about this Ed reid and he doesn't sound like one of the best people to deal with.
I've just had a look at some pic's of Irish staff's and the differences are Huge between both breeds.
I prefer the English Staff it looks better x


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## Guest

Jem85 said:


> I've read a bit about this Ed reid and he doesn't sound like one of the best people to deal with.
> I've just had a look at some pic's of Irish staff's and the differences are Huge between both breeds.
> I prefer the English Staff it looks better x


I know an awful lot about Ed Ried I can't post it on here!


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## Guest

Nicci said:


> I know an awful lot about Ed Ried I can't post it on here!


i've just googled him as im truely terrible at researching things thats why i ask a lot of questions


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## Guest

If you want to PM me I will tell you everything I know - I can't post it here as the wrong thing may come up in the search engines when looking for information 

It is information that isn't readily available on the internet


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## Guest

So are there any regulations in the uk to own a Irish? as i know there are a lot of regulations that come with owning a pit x


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## sskmick

Personally I wouldn't knowingly own a breed type or what could be construed as being a breed type. I would stick to an English SBT as I would not want to run the risk of losing the dog to the authorities.

Sue


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## Good dog gone bad

Im Really worried now! when I bought my puppy four years ago I was told he was an Irish staffie. Are these banned or something?? Mine is no trouble and the vets have never said anything......??


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## alison

Irish staffs are not banned. Any dog that has a substantial no of characteristics of a pit type are. Irish staff does not equal a pit bull type. If no ones asked you then i wouldnt worry. Theres thousands of irish staffs here. Even if a dog was proved type theres not a great deal you can do as you cant reg a dog yourself. That can only be ordered by a court.


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## Captain.Charisma

Nicci said:


> If you want to PM me I will tell you everything I know - I can't post it here as the wrong thing may come up in the search engines when looking for information
> 
> It is information that isn't readily available on the internet


They kinda look like pitbull dont they ? and are bigger than the english staffy arent they ?

Whats the main differences, i am also intrested..


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## gaz1979

my irish staff


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## Maistaff

Good dog gone bad said:


> Im Really worried now! when I bought my puppy four years ago I was told he was an Irish staffie. Are these banned or something?? Mine is no trouble and the vets have never said anything......??


Don't be worried as long as your pup is well behaved and not a danger to anyone be it dog or human then you will be fine


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## Maistaff

sallyanne said:


> The Irish Stafford is not a breed,it is a breed type.
> They are leaner and usually taller than your average SBT.They are not recognised by any registration body.You will see IKC registered,don't be fooled into thinking it's Irish Kennel Club,it a registration club run by Ed Reid and stands for Intercontinal Kennel Club.(as well as the Irish KC)Ed Reid was known in dog circles for keeping and breeding so called pitts.
> I did question the breeding behind these dogs,they have a breed standard 3 infact,all different, yet dogs are not bred to the standard,infact many so called Irish don't conform in any way shape or form to the standard.
> Alot of people breeding these dogs prefer to breed to the old 1935 standard for the SBT,hence the more leaner taller dog.
> As for colour no there not just blue,they come in all colours,pretty much the same as the SBT,again the Blues show faults the same as your KC Reg SBT.
> 
> I consider breeding away from the standard for the SBT we currently have dangerous in regard to the DDA.


Good post


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## Maistaff

Captain.Charisma said:


> They kinda look like pitbull dont they ? and are bigger than the english staffy arent they ?
> 
> Whats the main differences, i am also intrested..


You tend to find people describing their dogs as an Irish staff when they are above 17 inches to the shoulder in height, are much leaner with more of an athletic shape and with a longer muzzle.

The breed Irish Stafford does not exsist and more often than not when this topic is brought up on any Stafford Forum the thread is closed as it gets into a heated debate and one which more often than not gets out of hand!


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## dodigna

I know of people that passes their american pit bull crosses for irish Staffs, so beware of that if choosing a litter...


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## Captain.Charisma

Maistaff said:


> You tend to find people describing their dogs as an Irish staff when they are above 17 inches to the shoulder in height, are much leaner with more of an athletic shape and with a longer muzzle.
> 
> The breed Irish Stafford does not exsist and more often than not when this topic is brought up on any Stafford Forum the thread is closed as it gets into a heated debate and one which more often than not gets out of hand!


True, i would worry if had one, that it would be banned under the DDA as a "pitbull" type of dog.


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## GoldenShadow

Why are we bumping up old threads today


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## Captain.Charisma

Tinsley said:


> Why are we bumping up old threads today


LOL

I dont know tbh, but it doesnt really matter ?

If somone if thinking about making a new thread its always a good idea to search to see if theres an exisiting thread on the same topic/issue.


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## GoldenShadow

Captain.Charisma said:


> LOL
> 
> I dont know tbh, but it doesnt really matter ?
> 
> If somone if thinking about making a new thread its always a good idea to search to see if theres an exisiting thread on the same topic/issue.


Its just that some people don't seem to realise the OP might not be around anymore, so it can sometimes be easier to start up their own topic if they wanted to talk about something, as OP may be unlikely to respond


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## Captain.Charisma

Tinsley said:


> Its just that some people don't seem to realise the OP might not be around anymore, so it can sometimes be easier to start up their own topic if they wanted to talk about something, as OP may be unlikely to respond


True, but it somone was intrested in irish staffies and the DDA for example, then if theres an exisiting thread on it. It might be better to read the responces that are posted already and then add your own questions and responces in the thread ?


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## GoldenShadow

Captain.Charisma said:


> True, but it somone was intrested in irish staffies and the DDA for example, then if theres an exisiting thread on it. It might be better to read the responces that are posted already and then add your own questions and responces in the thread ?


Yep of course. It was just that I saw someone comment to OP, and I'm not sure if they are here anymore


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## Captain.Charisma

Tinsley said:


> Yep of course. It was just that I saw someone comment to OP, and I'm not sure if they are here anymore


True , me neither


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## james.johnson1

as long as your dog behaves and is trained well they should have no reason to take it from you, i have an 'irish staffy' with a red nose and both parents were red nose pits. He is a lovely dog who would never harm a soul, its down to owners not breeds. The media makes a big hype when a pitbull bites someone, but i guarantee you everyday people get bitten by rottweilers boxers and german shepards. its just not a big deal then. 

the difference between the irish and english tends to be the irish is more leggy, has a longer snout and is more athletic than a short legged short snouted stocky english staff.


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## noushka05

james.johnson1 said:


> as long as your dog behaves and is trained well they should have no reason to take it from you, i have an 'irish staffy' with a red nose and both parents were red nose pits. He is a lovely dog who would never harm a soul, its down to owners not breeds. The media makes a big hype when a pitbull bites someone, but i guarantee you everyday people get bitten by rottweilers boxers and german shepards. its just not a big deal then.
> 
> the difference between the irish and english tends to be the irish is more leggy, has a longer snout and is more athletic than a short legged short snouted stocky english staff.


it dosent matter if your dog is behaved and trained it can still be seized, sadly many innocent dogs are languishing in kennels/have died there or have been pts and their only 'crime' is the way they look

just want to add i would be very cautious who you tell about the breeding of your dog, pits are a banned breed and if you get reported for having one its likely he will be seized, i would tell everyone hes a staffy cross if i were you.


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## morsel

I have taken ownership of an unwanted staffy which is half 'irish staffy' half blue staffy. People here have described the 'Irish staffy' as having a more sporty looking physique. Mine has a strong back but his ribs are visible. I am trying to fill him out but maybe it is quite usual to see the ribs like it is with some other sporting breeds. Any comments about this would be appreciated.


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## Johnderondon

Ribs shouldn't be visible but should be able to be felt with a flat hand.


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## lulabella72

the irish staffie isnt really one pure full breed,, in fact it is two breeds of dog combined together .its a pitbull x staffie ie the one parent is full staffie and the other parent is full pitbull when the two are mated the pup are pittx staff. because of the stigma surroundin the pitbull breed alot of people will not advertise a pitbull x staffie pup because instanly people are put off. so they will put irish staffie. we owned one his name was ali g lol he was a bloody handful bless him and he wrecked our house they are a fab dog wen handled corecctly but do need an experinced handler and people who understand the dog. 6 foot fencin is needed lol as they can jump they are very athletic stong muscualr dogs and havin staff and pitbull in them need alot ov werk and training. they in the right hand s make fantastic pets. i hope tht this has cleared up your querie. my grandead bred full stffies and had papers wiht any pup he sold however with the irish staffie u will not get full papers as they am crossbreed. how ever if they am blue or another unusaul colour ecpect to pay higher thn the standrd price of a full staffie or full pit.. today u can pay alot for crossbreeds sumtimes more thn a full pedigree dog. hope this has been of some help 2 u


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## rotties4eva

It's an awkward one. We own what we were told was a staffie but she is massive she is nearly 18 inches to the shoulder and looks more like an Am staff. We have been told by people in the know that she is a pitbull but we just think she looks like a massive staffy.

If you haven't got papers (like us) then you can never be really sure what you own!


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## xshelly_stanliex

Jem said:


> As a Staffy lover im doing as much research as poss on the breed in general. I have asked this question elsewhere n no-one has answered it yet and I know there are a few Staffy people on here so you might be able to help.
> What is the difference between a English and a Irish or is it just a different name for the same breed?
> Are Irish Staffies always blue, I'm asking this as on the other site I visit they all seem to contain blue in them either a full blue or a pied etc.
> Any info is always appreciated xx


Irish staffordshire bull terrier...... No such breed was a name used for people too cover up that they had "pit bulls". 
Check this out.
How many different 'types' of staffy are there?

Also dogs with of without kc papers are being taken away because of how they look and how they look alone regardless of there temprement. We have one kc reg staff & one not the kc reg boy is taller than our none kc reg boy. Go back many years and find that the old stafford standards they were taller than they are todays staffords, you are gonna get throw backs of taller dogs. My boys are blue and staffords. 
Stafford history
http://www.bluestaffordshirebullterriers.co.uk/aboutthebreed.html

Best thing too do with owning a dog tha may come into pit bull "type" is too keep your nose clean and not too bring attention too yourself.


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## Spud the Bull Terrier

According to this leaflet DEFRA view the irish staffy and the American Staffy as Pitbull type dogs.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13573-dogs-law-you-leaflet-080515.pdf

I think one of the problems (and why the DDA could never work) is that pittbulls as a group come in a lot of different shapes and sizes from skinny lean APBT to the more stouter American Bullys and everything in-between.


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## Snoringbear

Historically, Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers are lines of working dogs that were kept within a genepool separate from the KC Staffordshire Bull Terrier. As such they look like the old type of dog, leaner and long legged, unlike the less functional squashed KC type which is broad and short legged. So really they are a strain or type within a breed. The blue thing and the association of blue as a specific to ISBTs makes no sense to me. The only dog of this type which was always blue was the Blue Paul Terrier from Scotland, but they no longer exist.


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## honeyandleo

i have a so called irish staffy originating from the pitbull ban in the 80s anyway ireland solved this by crossing the pitt with the english staffordshire bull giving you a totaly legal dog under the name irish staffordshire bull terrier most of the pit bull has been bred out of them now some 30yrs later and what remailns is a long legged staffy with a little more bulk but all in all a fantastic dog ( in the right hands ) in the wrong hands he would be a hand full


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## Maistaff

double post !!!


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## Maistaff

Snoringbear said:


> unlike the less functional squashed KC type which is broad and short legged. So really they are a strain or type within a breed.


Not all KC dogs are as you describe. If you ever went to a SBT show you will see varients of the Stafford i height and substance and i can say with hand on heart yes are some dogs that look like you have suggested BUT on the flip side many also look nothing like that (thank god)

Most if not all the stafford si know and are seeing bred are fully capable of being functional but then i do like a particular type and its not the one you describe 

These are some photo's from CRUFTS 2011 All dogs with the exception of the first photo who is a bitch


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## Snoringbear

Maistaff said:


> Not all KC dogs are as you describe. If you ever went to a SBT show you will see varients of the Stafford i height and substance and i can say with hand on heart yes are some dogs that look like you have suggested BUT on the flip side many also look nothing like that (thank god)
> 
> Most if not all the stafford si know and are seeing bred are fully capable of being functional but then i do like a particular type and its not the one you describe
> 
> These are some photo's from CRUFTS 2011 All dogs with the exception of the first photo who is a bitch


It would be interesting to know how those dogs did. When I look at KC Champion SBT's they all seem to be the lower wider types more in keeping with the standard. My reference to the KC SBT in my previous post was regarding the fact that they squashed the SBT in it's first standard by a couple of inches but kept the weight of the dog creating a wider, short legged dog with less angulation, therefore losing functionality. I'm not keen on those either, I prefer the leggier type regardless of the fact it's not to standard. I would agree, the dog's in your pictures do look more functional. The picture in my head of a functional dog was the APBT below, which has much more angulation and longer levers in its legs.


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## Maistaff

Snoringbear said:


> It would be interesting to know how those dogs did. When I look at KC Champion SBT's they all seem to be the lower wider types more in keeping with the standard. My reference to the KC SBT in my previous post was regarding the fact that they squashed the SBT in it's first standard by a couple of inches but kept the weight of the dog creating a wider, short legged dog with less angulation, therefore losing functionality. I'm not keen on those either, I prefer the leggier type regardless of the fact it's not to standard. I would agree, the dog's in your pictures do look more functional. The picture in my head of a functional dog was the APBT below, which has much more angulation and longer levers in its legs.


Some of these dogs were placed and in fact some of the other dogs which were there were taller and more athletic. My friends own the red and white pied bitch, and the white dog with the brindle patch on his face, these two dogs have been placed no end of times at Championship shows and at CRUFTS. The red dog was placed 3rd and he also belongs to a friend, he to is placed no end of time at all levels of shows.

I agree when most people think of Stafford they think short, squat and stocky but many breeders don't like this and have bred more athletic fit for function dogs.

The pitbull you have shown is very fit and i like it a lot.

I do prefer my Staffords to be in proportion. My own dogs vary greatly but thankfully i don't have any like the squat type. The closest i have is my boy at 16 inches who has plenty of bone anad a big head ( he has a muzzle ) but i do keep him in good condition and he is more than able to do any sport i ask of him such as agility (we did flyball but it wasn't for me!)


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## L/C

Those are some gorgeous dogs and it really emphasises how different the 'staffies' that you see on the street and in rescue are.


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## Snoringbear

Maistaff said:


> Some of these dogs were placed and in fact some of the other dogs which were there were taller and more athletic. My friends own the red and white pied bitch, and the white dog with the brindle patch on his face, these two dogs have been placed no end of times at Championship shows and at CRUFTS. The red dog was placed 3rd and he also belongs to a friend, he to is placed no end of time at all levels of shows.
> 
> I agree when most people think of Stafford they think short, squat and stocky but many breeders don't like this and have bred more athletic fit for function dogs.
> 
> The pitbull you have shown is very fit and i like it a lot.
> 
> I do prefer my Staffords to be in proportion. My own dogs vary greatly but thankfully i don't have any like the squat type. The closest i have is my boy at 16 inches who has plenty of bone anad a big head ( he has a muzzle ) but i do keep him in good condition and he is more than able to do any sport i ask of him such as agility (we did flyball but it wasn't for me!)


Well it's good to hear that moderate dogs are bieng rewarded. Your boy is in great condition and I prefer the way you stack him to some of those in the other pictures. I'm not keen on the overly stretched out hind leg look 

I found some pictures of some modern bred pre KC type dogs.

http://cosmos-staffords.com/Male_Staffords/male_staffords.html
http://cosmos-staffords.com/Female_Staffords/female_staffords.html


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## skyblue

L/C said:


> Those are some gorgeous dogs and it really emphasises how different the 'staffies' that you see on the street and in rescue are.


because as i've said for a long time most are crosses

heres one of my sisters 2 staffies


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## irishstaffylover

I dont think so as they are a breed type and my vets never said anything ,hes no trouble apart from excaping lol and the councils said nothin.:thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:


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## Sleeping_Lion

irishstaffylover said:


> I dont think so as they are a breed type and my vets never said anything ,hes no trouble apart from excaping lol and the councils said nothin.:thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:


Interesting first post for a very old thread!!


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## irishstaffylover

Also in answer to one of the first questions. NO they are not always blue!I have a beautiful brindle and white irish staffy.


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## sezeelson

No Irish staffies are not banned, but, they can be seized under type... Just as staffie crosses can. 

I don't know a whole lot about this but I thought Irish where typical staffs but had different selection pressures thus turning out different in shape to your english staffordshire bullterrier. 

Both Irish and english staffordshires where used to create a line of dogs which later became know as the American pitbull terrier.


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## sezeelson

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Interesting first post for a very old thread!!


Oh yeah! Didn't look at the date :/


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## Firedog

My vet told me there was no such thing as an Irish Staffy, it is just a front for a Pitbull. How true that is I really don't know.


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## xshelly_stanliex

From doing a lot of research and asking people who are more knowledgeable
I have found out the intercontinental Kennel club run by Ed Reid actually recognise the Irish staff. Its a performance dog http://www.edreid.co.uk/.
The Kennel Club do not recognise the breed neither do the American Kennel Club and it was a term commonly used to hide the fact someone had a pit bull type dog. 
But the Irish is recognised by some. The best way to explain it is there is only one Staffordshire bull terrier and like other breeds you get your breed standard lines and your working lines. in the Stafford's case you have the short stocky breed standard and your taller more athletic/working dog type. Both staffs in their own right just the taller leaner more athletic is known by some as an Irish staff.
Back when the breed standard was being made people had different ideas as to what the Stafford should look like and that's when the show Stafford people and working stafford people parted ways.


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## Snoringbear

I'd agree with the above. Irish SBTs were kept within a separate genepool from the KC standard English ones, which were bred less leggy. The Irish type, rather than being a distinct breed, were maintained as a performance dog.


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## Taryn peacock

Jem said:


> As a Staffy lover im doing as much research as poss on the breed in general. I have asked this question elsewhere n no-one has answered it yet and I know there are a few Staffy people on here so you might be able to help.
> What is the difference between a English and a Irish or is it just a different name for the same breed?
> Are Irish Staffies always blue, I'm asking this as on the other site I visit they all seem to contain blue in them either a full blue or a pied etc.
> Any info is always appreciated xx


 she is a blue Stafford but not an Irish Stafford even though she looks like it


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## evel-lin

Woah, very old thread


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## matty1878

My boy is bigger than most ibs I've seen and he's a full kc staff. I think Myne is just a extra large one than most


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## Natalia644

Nicci said:


> I know an awful lot about Ed Ried I can't post it on here!


R u still on this group? Not sure a's this post was a lot of years ago, would like a chat about the obvious haha


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## simplysardonic

Natalia644 said:


> R u still on this group? Not sure a's this post was a lot of years ago, would like a chat about the obvious haha


This thread is a decade old & most of the original contributors are no longer on the forum, might be an idea to make a new thread.

:Locktopic


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