# Wainwrights versus CSJ?



## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

Hi, 

Has anyone got expereince of either? Molly has been on WW for nearly 3 months & seems ok on it-shiny coat,bright eyes etc....just her poos are not always solid...semi firm.Starting investigating other foods in PAH & internet and found CSJ,found lots of positives(including half the price of WW) but just wondered about opinions of trusty old Pet forums folk


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## theevos5 (Dec 24, 2009)

never used WW but use csj,and have done snice last summer,alf had a runny tum before using it,used to have to top up with chappie to stop the runs,he now is great,his poo is great I can actually pick it up!he has a gorgeous glossy shiny coat.I think he scratches alot less than he used to as well
If you give them a bell they will send you samples,I am lucky I only live 3 miles from a stockist and they gave me enough food to wean Alf onto csj and to see if I was happy with it,as they didn't want me to buy a 15kg bag and it not be suitable.Cannot fault it at all,it costs £13 a bag and it lasts me 7 weeks,he weighs 20kg. The customer service is great and if I buy 2 bags I get a pound off a bag


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

What does Csj stand for?


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## theevos5 (Dec 24, 2009)

i don't know but heres a link

Dog Food for gundogs, sheepdogs, agility dogs, and show dogs.


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

I use Csj....brilliant food!! Tummel was on ww but his coat was dull and rough and his poo wasn't always looking great so I switched to Csj and I've never looked back! He's been on it for 4 months now his coat is soft and shiny and his poo is always firm and healthy. He loves eating it and as the food I get costs me £11 a bag he usually gets a new toy or treat every month with the money I have leftover. I use hi-lost as Tummels not bothered by grain but I'm impressed with the variety they have. I also use poppers, trainers and dem bones from Csj the dem bones are for fighting bad breath and they certainly work!! I give Tummel 1 every night as a bedtime treat.


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## Sergeant.Floyd.Pepper (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm thinking about starting csj but have reservations. My biggest question is which one? There is no-one that stocks near me either.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I have heard a few people praising CSJ on here but I have been unable to find a very goof ingredient list and until I see one I wont be that confident in them...As in they don't say %'s of meat and so that makes me very wary as to how much is in it..!

Wainwrights isn't bad but it depends what you are after. If you find it easier to pick food up at Pets At Home compared with ordering online etc. I refuse to feed foods with things like wheat/maize/corn as these are fillers, give the dog nothing in the amounts that are often included yet you can still be charged a lot for the food.

Considering WW isn't hypoallergenic I do think the dry food is a bit steep price wise, but like I said if its more convenient to get food from there then it may not matter etc.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

ballybee said:


> I use Csj....brilliant food!! Tummel was on ww but his coat was dull and rough and his poo wasn't always looking great so I switched to Csj and I've never looked back! He's been on it for 4 months now his coat is soft and shiny and his poo is always firm and healthy. He loves eating it and as the food I get costs me £11 a bag he usually gets a new toy or treat every month with the money I have leftover. I use hi-lost as Tummels not bothered by grain but I'm impressed with the variety they have. I also use poppers, trainers and dem bones from Csj the dem bones are for fighting bad breath and they certainly work!! I give Tummel 1 every night as a bedtime treat.


I thought there was grain in every single type of CSJ food :confused1:

I don't really believe a company should need a wide variety of foods for different dogs. My dog is a gundog breed and has been on the same food for over a year. It has served him well when he was more active, less active, and unwell. I don't think certain types of dog need a certain type of food dependent upon their breed. Obviously you wouldn't feed a massively low fat/calorie food to a dog who was ridiculously active but then I don't really go for low fat/calorie foods unless there is a physical reason the dog can't tolerate fats, just feed them less or more of a 'good' food to keep up with what they need 

I wont lie, I'm not that impressed by the look of CSJ. They don't list exactly how much wheat and maize etc is included and I wont feed that to my dog. He was fine on foods with wheat and maize and his digestive tract appears to handle them less well the older he has got. He's not old either, only 2.5 years old but the more a dog has of something the more they can become intolerant if its a tricky thing for them anyway. But seeing what grains like that can do to a dog who is relatively normal concerns me and I would not feed any food that wasn't hypoallergenic to any of my future dogs purely on the basis of how much Rupert improved being off grain.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

What is csj. Is it a wet or dry food. I have recently put mine on wainwrights wet and they love it. Nice small dry poos too.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Blitz said:


> What is csj. Is it a wet or dry food. I have recently put mine on wainwrights wet and they love it. Nice small dry poos too.


Its a dry, these kinds:

CSJ Original Dog Food - CSJK9 Ltd.


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## michaelasi (Oct 29, 2009)

I never used CSj , in fact never heard about them . I had couple months back my lot on WW on lamb flavour although they eat the food , they did not enjoyed at all. so we tried different foods .
we did tried turkey and veg no grains from ww , was not to bad but brew always seems to get runny tummy when we r at the end of the sack .
Any how we tried applaws ( we r at the second bag ) and god all mighty what a change ,75 % is meat content (poultry) the rest r vege ... smells smashing , my lot love it (wonder is the small quibbles has something to do with it) , poos r firm and the right colour ,the coats r looking really nice .
also we got on feeding the cats with applaws and puerley dry food , but noticed the cats try to have a go on the dog food and vice versa mental .

WW as I said has the turkey and vege 10 kilo bag with out riceI think is £31 ( they do have the rice version witch is 33.48 /15 kg ) 
ww is a hypoallergenic food ( they try to convince u at [email protected]) is like JWB but the recipe even if is close is not identical .


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## molly moo (Sep 4, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Its a dry, these kinds:
> 
> CSJ Original Dog Food - CSJK9 Ltd.


molly on ww wet and she loves it any she only poos twice a day instead of loads


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2011)

McKenzie's on WW but I'm going to change her because she doesn't really like it and her poos aren't always great. I was thinking of changing her to Arden Grange, or maybe Orijin if I can scrape the money.


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

I found with the CSJ my dogs pooped a lot more but they are now on fish4dogs and both doing well


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I've not tried CSJ but have used WW and can vouch for that, especially the wet. 

I imagine there would be more output from CSJ due to the cereal content but most cheaper foods are the same but CSJ gets great reports


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I've used it and liked it only reason I stopped because I had to get it delivered and I also found my 30kg dogs (2) were eating two 15kg sacks in 5 weeks


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I have heard a few people praising CSJ on here but I have been unable to find a very goof ingredient list and until I see one I wont be that confident in them...As in they don't say %'s of meat and so that makes me very wary as to how much is in it..!
> 
> Wainwrights isn't bad but it depends what you are after. If you find it easier to pick food up at Pets At Home compared with ordering online etc. I refuse to feed foods with things like wheat/maize/corn as these are fillers, give the dog nothing in the amounts that are often included yet you can still be charged a lot for the food.
> 
> Considering WW isn't hypoallergenic I do think the dry food is a bit steep price wise, but like I said if its more convenient to get food from there then it may not matter etc.


WW dry is Hypoallergenic....why do you keep saying it isn't...look at the website and see for yourself.

I have used WW dry salmon and potato for coming up 4yrs now with good results whether its made by pets at home or not and for that fact its made for them not by them and most lightly by a company thats makes all the premium brands.
I also use F4Gs now and mix the two together with no probs


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

mollymo said:


> WW dry is Hypoallergenic....why do you keep saying it isn't...look at the website and see for yourself.


It has barley in it which is considered by many to be a well known allergen to dogs. It says the food is suitable for dogs with a wheat allergy because it is wheat free. But I could say its suitable for dogs allergic to pollen because there is no pollen in it too.

The guys in our [email protected] have themselves told me its not hypoallergenic because it has barley in it. We went through this last time 

If it was totally hypoallergenic they would shout it from the roof tops but they don't. All they say is it is free of many allergens, which is true, but it is not hypoallergenic according to all the staff I have ever spoken to.

ETA: TBH many people dispute any food with rice in as being hypoallergenic anyway, be glad I'm not that much of a stickler! Skinners is £10 cheaper a bag in comparison with the WW meat and rice flavours but lacks the barley.


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> It has barley in it which is considered by many to be a well known allergen to dogs. It says the food is suitable for dogs with a wheat allergy because it is wheat free. But I could say its suitable for dogs allergic to pollen because there is no pollen in it too.
> 
> The guys in our [email protected] have themselves told me its not hypoallergenic because it has barley in it. We went through this last time
> 
> If it was totally hypoallergenic they would shout it from the roof tops but they don't. All they say is it is free of many allergens, which is true, but it is not hypoallergenic according to all the staff I have ever spoken to.


Well its on the bag and Im sure they would be in serious trouble if it was not.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

mollymo said:


> Well its on the bag and Im sure they would be in serious trouble if it was not.


Well if that's good enough for you that's fine, all I'm going on is what I know, just like you going on what you know. That comes from people I've spoken to at both Pets At Home, and my vets. It doesn't actually state on the [email protected] website that the food is hypoallergenic so why would I know what the bag says?


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> It has barley in it which is considered by many to be a well known allergen to dogs. It says the food is suitable for dogs with a wheat allergy because it is wheat free. But I could say its suitable for dogs allergic to pollen because there is no pollen in it too.
> 
> The guys in our [email protected] have themselves told me its not hypoallergenic because it has barley in it. We went through this last time
> 
> ...


I agree I find WW dry expensive for what sort of food it actually is, skinners were i buy is £12 less!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Daynna said:


> I agree I find WW dry expensive for what sort of food it actually is, skinners were i buy is £12 less!


Hypoallergenic is such a generic term anyway, it just means its unlikely to cause a reaction but there are foods MUCH less likely to do this than others. I'd put the WW quite high up on the list with at least 8% of its food being barley..!

I do quite like Skinners think its only the Field and Trial ones which are Hypoallergenic but I love the way they don't try and rip people off like a lot of companies do..!


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Well if that's good enough for you that's fine, all I'm going on is what I know, just like you going on what you know. That comes from people I've spoken to at both Pets At Home, and my vets. It doesn't actually state on the [email protected] website that the food is hypoallergenic so why would I know what the bag says?


Its on each wainwright dry item on the website.
I dont why Im bothering to reply any way as you arn't interested in WW obviously.


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Bobby is on ww wet at teatime, for breakfast handfull of ww cereal free dry great coat condition 2 poohs per day does great on it :thumbup:


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

mollymo said:


> Its on each wainwright dry item on the website.
> I dont why Im bothering to reply any way as you arn't interested in WW obviously.


Its not 

It states: dog food that is specifically formulated to be gentle on your dog's digestion by excluding many of the known ingredients that commonly cause allergies in dogs.

Suitable for pets with the following dietary requirement(s):

Wheat Allergy, Sensitive Skin, Sensitive Stomach.


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

Daynna said:


> Its not
> 
> It states: dog food that is specifically formulated to be gentle on your dog's digestion by excluding many of the known ingredients that commonly cause allergies in dogs.
> 
> ...


Scroll down to the bottom of each dry item and its near the bottom:mad2:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

mollymo said:


> Its on each wainwright dry item on the website.
> I dont why Im bothering to reply any way as you arn't interested in WW obviously.


:lol: seriously?! Why did one of our dogs get fed WW wet then and why would I have been aiming to move onto it if it wasn't for the fact my old vet advised me not to change Rupert's diet at all in the build up to summer 

Oh and why would I have got my uncle feeding his lab puppy WW wet, and why did I spend time looking into the WW dry for him? Because I liked it, but sadly it has barley in quite a high quantity.



mollymo said:


> Scroll down to the bottom of each dry item and its near the bottom:mad2:


Well I still can't see it maybe my eye sight is ****. The fact is I wouldn't feed a food with 8-10% barley in, to me and people I have spoken to barley is an allergen very common in a lot of dogs similar to wheat and maize hence I would not feed a food with that ingredient. Having had Rupert with his variety of problems I don't like pissing around with food, I go for something with as little in to aggravate the digestive system as possible. So for me, that's Wainwrights Dry, OUT.

Advanced Nutrition on the other hand, *some* of those look quite good (some have maize) but they are quite pricey for what they are IMO.


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## mushymouth (Jan 9, 2011)

I use the advanced nutrition with salmon that's quite good. Bit more expensive than we but I like it. And so does roxy 
She has nice solid poos on this too.
I do believe the salmon is maize free as that's why I went for it as something was upsetting her


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I apologise Its right at the bottom after aload of other rubbish, Makes me wonder why they dont have it with the other info about the food e.t.c 

Skinners duck and rice has it on the bag, its one oif the first things on the info e.t.c They seem to shout about it as do many other companies 

I wonder why they dont?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Daynna said:


> I apologise Its right at the bottom after aload of other rubbish, Makes me wonder why they dont have it with the other info about the food e.t.c
> 
> Skinners duck and rice has it on the bag, its one oif the first things on the info e.t.c They seem to shout about it as do many other companies
> 
> I wonder why they dont?


I still can't see it but tbh my eyesight isn't that good with grey writing on a white background :lol:

I wonder if its because of the barley, because the guys I spoke to were adamant it wasn't really hypoallergenic and the barley is the only ingredient which puts me off. TBH if the barley was 2-4% I probably wouldn't be that concerned but 8-10% seems quite high. Hypoallergenic only means its unlikely to cause a reaction so its up to the individual company as to what they class as that and as long as its relatively reasonable I doubt they would get much of a telling off for it. There are plenty of people who think foods with rice in are not good enough and potato is the only way to go, but when you go that far you're almost splitting hairs and may as well just go raw :lol:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> It has barley in it which is considered by many to be a well known allergen to dogs. It says the food is suitable for dogs with a wheat allergy because it is wheat free. But I could say its suitable for dogs allergic to pollen because there is no pollen in it too.
> 
> The guys in our [email protected] have themselves told me its not hypoallergenic because it has barley in it. We went through this last time
> 
> ...


Wainwrights *is* hypoallergenic, I've seen you say it isn't alot of times, but it _is!_ :lol:

Yes, it has barley in, but this isn't an ingredient that needs to be excluded to class a food as hypoallergenic. Hypoallergenic feeds have to exclude all common allergens, so that's beef, pork, wheat, dairy, eggs and soya. Which Wainwrights does, so it is hypoallergenic. Barley isn't a common allergen.

It could be argued that NO food is hypoallergenic in the true sense of the word, because there are always going to be dogs allergic to even hypoallergenic foods, but if a food excludes the common allergens I mentioned above, then it can rightfully be classed as a hypoallergenic food.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Wainwrights *is* hypoallergenic, I've seen you say it isn't alot of times, but it _is!_ :lol:
> 
> Yes, it has barley in, but this isn't an ingredient that needs to be excluded to class a food as hypoallergenic. Hypoallergenic feeds have to exclude all common allergens, so that's beef, pork, wheat, dairy, eggs and soya. Which Wainwrights does, so it is hypoallergenic. Barley isn't a common allergen.
> 
> It could be argued that NO food is hypoallergenic in the true sense of the word, because there are always going to be dogs allergic to even hypoallergenic foods, but if a food excludes the common allergens I mentioned above, then it can rightfully be classed as a hypoallergenic food.


It's up to a lot of interpretion as to what is a common allergen. You have missed off maize and that is an incredibly common allergens  My new vet has seen many dogs with barley allergies so I do not believe it to be particularly uncommon either. It's all about what is perceived unlikely to cause a reaction, I would favour turkey foods over chicken etc and potato over rice on that basis but all those are not considered allergens yet I know lots of dogs with problems with them.

OK how about this, I believe in CEREAL FREE and hypoallergenic food, because I really don't want to feed anything with a large amount of cereal in. Bit more correct? Doesn't change my opinion I still think for what it is the WW dry is expensive and that the 8-10% barley is a lot and much of it unnecessary. Now I just have reason to believe foods labelled hypo allergenic arent always what I would consider a decent standard  But then I also think JWB and Burns are massively overpriced for what they are as well 

Its the ingredient lists I am interested in anyway not so much a label that was just an extra point 

ETA: bit more on topic, I feel foods like Skinners are better value for money than Wainwrights and as mentioned before are closer to the CSJ costs. Probably about the only food you don't pay through your nose for the 'hypo allergenic' label tbh!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> It's up to a lot of interpretion as to what is a common allergen. You have missed off maize and that is an incredibly common allergens  My new vet has seen many dogs with barley allergies so I do not believe it to be particularly uncommon either. It's all about what is perceived unlikely to cause a reaction, I would favour turkey foods over chicken etc and potato over rice on that basis but all those are not considered allergens yet I know lots of dogs with problems with them.
> 
> OK how about this, I believe in CEREAL FREE and hypoallergenic food, because I really don't want to feed anything with a large amount of cereal in. Bit more correct? Doesn't change my opinion I still think for what it is the WW dry is expensive and that the 8-10% barley is a lot and much of it unnecessary. Now I just have reason to believe foods labelled hypo allergenic arent always what I would consider a decent standard  But then I also think JWB and Burns are massively overpriced for what they are as well
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree maize is a common allergen, but it isn't something that needs to be excluded to allow a food to be classed as hypoallergenic. There are lots of hypoallergenic feeds that contain maize- Arden Grange for example, the ingredients list clearly states maize, and the bag clearly states hypoallergenic. 

As I said, if a food excludes beef, pork, wheat, eggs, dairy and soya, it's hypoallergenic, end of.

It can contain maize or barley, they're not something that need to be excluded, I'm not saying I agree, but that's the way it is, and it's not for us to argue.

Wainwrights is hypoallergenic, regardless of whether you agree or not I'm afraid. It gets frustrating when you consistently claim it isn't....

*''Wainwright's Adult Complete Dog Food is hypo-allergenic and suitable for adult dogs aged 1-7''* taken from Wainwright's Adult Complete Dog Food with Turkey & Rice 15kg | Pets at Home


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Yes, I agree maize is a common allergen, but it isn't something that needs to be excluded to allow a food to be classed as hypoallergenic. There are lots of hypoallergenic feeds that contain maize- Arden Grange for example, the ingredients list clearly states maize, and the bag clearly states hypoallergenic.
> 
> As I said, if a food excludes beef, pork, wheat, eggs, dairy and soya, it's hypoallergenic, end of.
> 
> ...


I can't read that so I will have to take your word for it.

As for 'when I consistently claim it isn't' the guys in Pets At Home literally weeks ago told me it isn't hypoallergenic due to barley and before now I have had one person say 'its hypoallergenic' previous to that thread and that was it, no justification/info telling me where so tbh I don't see I've done anything particularly wrong.

I find it frustrating when people expect me to know a fact and get irritated with me for not knowing it, when they give me no reason to believe otherwise 

BTW can you send me a link about the allergens you found which need to be excluded because I have found differing opinions on maize but it may be because some of my articles are from the US.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I can't read that so I will have to take your word for it.
> 
> As for 'when I consistently claim it isn't' the guys in Pets At Home literally weeks ago told me it isn't hypoallergenic due to barley and before now I have had one person say 'its hypoallergenic' previous to that thread and that was it, no justification/info telling me where so tbh I don't see I've done anything particularly wrong.
> 
> ...


You haven't done anything wrong! You've just been misinformed- no disrespect to the people in PAH, but they're trained in retail, they don't have one smidge of training when it comes to canine nutrition I'm afraid. Take all they say with a pinch of salt 

Now you know Wainwrights is hypoallergenic and all is sorted 

Yes, sorry about the size of writing in the picture, it's stupidly small and I couldn't make it any bigger. If you can't see that, it's clearly written in the link too.

I don't have a link of where I found those allergens that need to be excluded. Just something I've picked up along the way of 40 years of owning dogs.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> You haven't done anything wrong! You've just been misinformed- no disrespect to the people in PAH, but they're trained in retail, they don't have one smidge of training when it comes to canine nutrition I'm afraid. Take all they say with a pinch of salt
> 
> Now you know Wainwrights is hypoallergenic and all is sorted
> 
> ...


Haha yes just don't go expecting me to like the food more than before 

I'm wondering whether there is a definitive list of allergens needed to be excluded or whether its just 'reasonable belief' that the ingredients within wont cause a reaction. There must be something with maize because I've never seen a hypoallergenic feed with it in, but its in the [email protected] Advance Nutrition (one type doesn't at least), normal Arden Grange (not sensitive) etc which aren't hypo.

Its funny, because this is taken off the Skinners website on their Duck Field and Trial (which is hypoallergenic):



> It is free from wheat gluten,
> maize gluten, barley gluten, soya and dairy products.


So they obviously feel the need to avoid barley. They do have naked oats and they don't seem hugely popular in a lot of hypo feeds. Funny how lots of places don't mention the beef/pork thing as well.

I may be sat on a no cereals brigade now :lol: Are oats classed as a cereal or grain? I was a bit way of beet pulp but cleared that one up.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> normal Arden Grange (not sensitive) etc which *aren't* hypo. Are oats classed as a cereal or grain?.


'Normal' Arden Grange (lamb & rice, salmon & rice and chicken & rice) *are* all hypoallergenic, yet all contain maize.

Lamb Meal* (min 30%), Whole Grain Rice (min 26%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract

Fresh Salmon (min 26%), Whole Grain Rice (min 26%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Chicken Meal*, Beet Pulp, Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

Chicken Meal* (min 27%), Whole Grain Rice (min 26%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Fresh Chicken (min 5%), Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

As you can see, all 3 flavours list maize as the third ingredient, so that means theres a considerable quanity within the foods, yet you can clearly see the 'hypoallergenic' banner emblazoned on the bags.
























Cereal/grain are the same thing, and yes, oats are a cereal/grain.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

:lol: tonight is not my night :lol: I know Arden Grange is hypoallergenic don't know wth I said otherwise Bearpaw told me that a while ago 

I have to say maize was the first one my dog had issues with and I was advised to get him off, wasn't even the wheat! Got any other brands you can reel off for me? I always liked Arden Grange bar the maize because my dog was on the sensitive but I wanted him on something with more meat in, but because the large breed dry had maize in he couldn't have it 

Man I am really disappointed that the term hypoallergenic can be used with such ingredients, seems a bit of a throw around term and as though you need to know what allergies your dog has else you could still be scuppered. My old vet found many to be rife in dogs he saw (was a dermatologist, barley was very high up on the list as was maize). Guess it proves its all about opinion though, Skinners wont use barley and make a point of stating that is why their good is hypoallergenic, and WW do. Wet food is a lot simpler at least, but then the vast majority I've seen have rice so not good if your dog can't handle that. Seems funny to call rice a 'cereal' grain seems to suit it SO much better


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Sorry, what do you mean brands I can reel off for you?

I agree that is a shame maize can be used in hypoallergenic dog foods, like you say, so many dogs have issues with it and I personally think it should be excluded from hypoallergenic feeds. It's nothing but a cheap filler, none of mine have issues with it, yet I still won't give them it. Well, I say they don't have issues with it- I don't know since they've never had it! :lol:

How about BARF? You can't get any more natural than that. You can still avoid typically irritant meats (beef [inc. tripe] and pork), and even chicken if you want. There's turkey, fish, duck, rabbit, venison, game- all hypoallergenic, and can easily provide a well balanced raw diet.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Sorry, what do you mean brands I can reel off for you?
> 
> I agree that is a shame maize can be used in hypoallergenic dog foods, like you say, so many dogs have issues with it and I personally think it should be excluded from hypoallergenic feeds. It's nothing but a cheap filler, none of mine have issues with it, yet I still won't give them it. Well, I say they don't have issues with it- I don't know since they've never had it! :lol:
> 
> How about BARF? You can't get any more natural than that. You can still avoid typically irritant meats (beef [inc. tripe] and pork), and even chicken if you want. There's turkey, fish, duck, rabbit, venison, game- all hypoallergenic, and can easily provide a well balanced raw diet.


Which other brands have maize in but are hypoallergenic because I will write them down and stay away :scared:

BARF may be our next step but it wouldn't be that easy. He doesn't seem to tolerate pork or beef well (gives him the runs, remove from diet and he firms up) and with his recent problems I got told to keep an eye out on his copper intake and something about it being higher in lamb if fed something or other? It's in my email inbox I will have to check, but we have to be a bit careful with lamb. Local butchers are good for chicken wings and some offal but I think that's about it and we don't really have much freezer storage. If need be I could make it happen but it wouldn't be hugely easy.

He does OK on what he is on now but if I do change his food again I really don't think he will be on anything like a dry food again. Thats not to say i don't like them I do, its just there are so many ingredients in them for dogs to have problems with. Not keen to change his diet right now as we are coming up for the season of his ear problems. Vet thinks he has atopy but to what we don't know hence if I muck about with food I fear I might complicate it even more!

Definitely going to look into raw I think it would help more with his glands too. You can buy tripe mince can't you but I'm like is or from a pig or cow or now maybe even lamb because I'm not sure if he could have it then  Do you feed raw?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Ah I see, I can certainly understand you not wanting to risk upsetting things by changing his diet right now. I can't think of any other hypoallergenic maize containing foods, off the top of my head. I think Arden Grange is the big offender there!

If you do decide to take the plunge and give BARF a whirl, it's quite easy to avoid the irritant meats, my Westie gets itchy on beef and pork, so he has very little of those, and very little tripe too. He is ok on chicken so the base of his diet is that, with turkey, lamb and fish. Things like duck, rabbit and venison are occasional bits that he'll have as and when I can get hold of them. If you need any help/advice regarding BARF feeding an itchy, generally allergic dog, feel free to drop me a PM. 

Tripe is nearly always from a cow, so it'd be a beef product. I'm sure all the frozen minced tripe would be beef tripe.

Yes, I feed raw. Well, half raw, half kibble. They have kibble one day, and BARF the next.


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

From what I've read up on dogfood analysis, there are foods such as TOTW and Origen (very expensive) that don't have grains in them and are 5&6 out of 6 star foods... Both Arden Grange, Wainwrights and CSJ have grains in them. BUT Arden Grange is hypoallagenic (3/6)(sp...) and CSJ do a gluten and wheat free one which is about £8 more expensive but still cheaper than most foods. Herbie Rings (3/6) is also a very good CSJ food and is as good as Arden Grange. I can't comment very much on wainwrights as I have not fed it. Nor would I as personally I feel it's over priced for what it is. I buy online. 

If your wondering what on earth I'm talking about in stars I would really surgest reading the dog food analisis website as it has a lot of interesting infomation on most brands of food although I can't seem to see wainwrights on there.

CSJ is a good food for someone on a budget imo. I would feed CSJ's herbie rings over Arden grange as they are the same quality but CSJ is cheaper...

All is my own personal opinion based on what I've read and I am by no way telling you what to feed nor am I telling you that WW is crap because I'm sure it's a decent food as is AG which I used to feed.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Ah I see, I can certainly understand you not wanting to risk upsetting things by changing his diet right now. I can't think of any other hypoallergenic maize containing foods, off the top of my head. I think Arden Grange is the big offender there!
> 
> If you do decide to take the plunge and give BARF a whirl, it's quite easy to avoid the irritant meats, my Westie gets itchy on beef and pork, so he has very little of those, and very little tripe too. He is ok on chicken so the base of his diet is that, with turkey, lamb and fish. Things like duck, rabbit and venison are occasional bits that he'll have as and when I can get hold of them. If you need any help/advice regarding BARF feeding an itchy, generally allergic dog, feel free to drop me a PM.
> 
> ...


Thanks I might well do that. Ours are on half wet half kibble at the minute I know chicken wings are meant to be better for smaller dogs (ours are retrievers) but they loved them and had no problems, just there isn't a lot of meat with them really. Think I'd probably start doing raw a couple days in a row if I could find the right sort of stuff for Rupert. Milo could have anything I would think but would be easier to start with knowing they can both have whatever we've got. As soon as Rupert has had his first ear problem of the season I will probably be more likely to take the plunge and do it but if I mess his diet around then the ear troubles come its like it could be diet or it could be his environment etc  Will get him allergy tested but as we've moved to quite a different area and we have a new vet I want to see if he's any better down here or if the problem is still as bad/worse.


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