# DEBATE: Letting cats out - Your opinions.



## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

I guess this is going to be quite controversial, but could we all please keep it civil .

Is letting cats out right/wrong, do you let your cats out? What are your reasons for this decision. Debate 

I let my cats out, 2 reasons.. I like them to have their freedom and the fact that they both came from outdoor lives, I didn't feel it'd be fair to keep them locked inside. Lottie was a stray that spent the first 6 months of her life outside, and Leo spent the first 3 months of his life outside on a farm (he was in a right state, but thats a different thread).

We live in a quiet area with not a great deal of traffic so I don't feel that my cats are at too great a risk by going out and exploring the world. If I lived on a main road I probably wouldn't own cats as I feel that I'd need to let them outside.  I don't think any less of anyone that does keep cats indoors, I'm sure everyone does what they feel is right for their cats 

Those are my thoughts / opinions. Please keep it civil and on topic if you reply


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

All my cats have access to the outside. The first pair we got at 2 years old and had been used to going outside and all the rest have been strays that would not cope if I kept them in. I used to live in a quiet area of Aberdeen but now live out in the country. The cats thrive and are very happy.

Each to their own I say and do what suits your cat.


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Matty what a good thread - I feel this one will keep on track 

Well I feel like you in that I have an old rescue male who lived outside for most of his life - he came to live with us and we kept him in for weeks on end - he hated it - slowly we let him out into the garden - for a few years he would go further a field and thankfully has always been safe. This last year or so his age is showing and only goes to the next door neighbour for his daily bit of best ham and lays in the sun in her garden ( She has grass we dont ) He likes to sunbathe in our front garden and never goes any further. We have another cat who came from a farm who enjoys going into the back fields shes not a cat who likes to hang with other cats as such so likes her freedom away from them.
Then along came my daughters cat who is a BSH and came from a breeder - he was kept in for ages - had a trip to the bad Mr Vet who took his little conkers away - we still kept him in until one day daughter wanted to take him in the garden to play - by now he was getting close to a year old - so off they went to play - he now goes out but for some reason wont go further than 2 doors down - hes a real home cat - likes to play in the garden and his favourite spot is on top of the garden shed where he can watch the world go by.....I can see the need for the pedigree cats to be indoor cats as long as they have a run in the garden so have access to the outside world I have no problem with it - they would get stolen otherwise. If a cat is happy to be indoors there is no problem - also if they are show cats - they have to be kept inside for obvious reasons....
I would like to see others views on this - very interesting topic


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

I believe cats need some way of having exercise outdoors...

Mine used to have a free run - but stayed in my back garden and I hadn't realised that this was just luck until I got a bolder cat who wandered and either got lost stolen or worse. 
Then we moved to the countryside and our cat got hit by a car and killed he was probably chasing something and got carried away - I think this was half caused by the fact the roads are quieter so he didn't expect something to be coming - I was devastated and had to learn the hard way. 

Now the cats are only allowed out during the day when I can watch them and I am having a large pen built so they will be able to play outdoors in safety. It's just not worth the risk.

Emily

Just edited this to say there is no way my cats would be happy if they couldn't go out at all.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*I used to have 2 rescue moggies before I had my pedigrees, although we do live on a main road, they did go out, but never went far and everyone around here knew them. One my neighbour found dead in her back yard after he's been missing 2 days, he's been poisoned!! The other 2 we never found. At the time it turned out many cats went missing. We were given Black & white Moggy at 6 weeks old, she is 5 June 1st. She has never been allowed out without supervision. Though our back is totally cat proofed and we have a run too. We of course have our Norwegians, which I would definately not let out to roam, they would either get killed or be stolen. We have lots of shelves, climbers toys ect in our house for ours to exercise on. I do know people that live in the country that do let theirs roam and thats their choice and risk to do so. 
Thats my opinion*


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

Debbie said:


> they would get stolen otherwise.


I never even considered that, but I guess that it could be a major factor.


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## sophoscar (Apr 25, 2008)

My 9 month cat goes outside but only in the day. I call him in at night and shut the catflap. He doesn't seem to mind but hardly goes far anyway. He will usually hang around a couple of gardens and come back. At night he goes to sleep.

Reason for not letting him out at night is because my first cat got ran over and was found next to a speed camare, then i had two more cats. 1st went out at night and was found dead in a garden and then the other he went out at night and never came back. I keep this one indoors at night but i still have a look now and then for sign of my other cat

Eventhough that has happened i could not have him be a house cat as he very energetic and would feel that it is unfair.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> I have had a few debates with people on here over this very subject...
> Unfortunately some folk didn't like my view...
> 
> IMO...
> ...


I agree and I lost the most beautiful and wonderful natured cat this way - I still find it very hard.
My husband has hit a cat on the road at night too and was in a terrible state.


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Interesting stuff so far! Must admit I can completely understand the reasons for keeping cats in but I think it is great those that build runs so that puss can still get outside for fresh air. I am really lucky where I live and my cats don't even cross the road as they are too busy patrolling the steadings and field.


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Ours are indoor cats only. We have a large, fully enclosed wire cat run attached to the back of the home, the window is left open and the cats can come and go as they please. There is no way on earth any of ours would ever be given free access to outdoors for a number of reasons:

a) we're a breeding home, the cats health and kittens health would be at risk if they were outdoors mixing with the neighbourhood cats
b) theft, big problem with any pedigree cats
c) fatality by RTA's
d) fatality or injury by idiot teenagers with air gun pellets, and other forms of crulety
e) illness or death by eating something toxic i.e. a rat that has died of rat poison
f) I refuse to let any of our fur children become a nuisance to the neighbours by constantly pissing on their front doors and messing in their gardens (this happens to us with the neighbours cats!!) 
g) death or injury by someone's dog

What it boils down to for us is that our indoor cats are very happy, social, well adjusted cats who lack nothing by not having freedom to go where they like outside. They love their cat run and I know that our cats are safe and that for me is the most important thing. We chose to bring them into this world and we are responsible for keeping them safe.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Schimmel said:


> d) fatality or injury by idiot teenagers with air gun pellets, and other forms of


Oh God yes...

When I lived in the city and the cats played in the garden I used to feel sick every time I heard one. 
Did you buy pen or was it self built - any tips of what it should be like, made of etc etc.

Emily


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> Did you buy pen or was it self built - any tips of what it should be like, made of etc etc.
> 
> Emily


Well, bit of a long story, it's quite old and has even been pulled apart and moved house with us. Quite a few years ago now when we only had a couple of cats we wanted an outdoor run so we looked around and the cheapest panels at the time were from Grange Pet Centre. We ordered some panels, screwed them together etc. and then over the years we've just kept buying more panels to keep extending the run. I still think that it's a relatively cheap way of doing it. Admittedly ours is far from "posh" lol but the cats love it and it's so nice to see them lying out there on the shelves in the sun and "stalking" bugs. If you have a partner or mate who's handy with DIY then all you'd have to do is actually buy the wood, buy the wire and it would be even cheaper because the panels are not difficult to construct.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*We built our own. We are lucky to have what used to be the old coal & toilet sheds, so incorporated that into the run. The front is made from Willow trellis covered with perspex, the door has chicken wire on it. The roof is corragated see through. The perspex acts to stop the wind & rain and sneeze barriers. Next door has house cats that do go in her yard if shes out there, they get on the wall that our run is against and sit, so it stops them spreading any germs....if they had any, better to be safe than sorry*


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## Guest (May 29, 2008)

My cats have the choice, they don't go out even though doors leading to outside are always open only ever so occasionally now my Queen will venture out where she can usually be found soaking up the sun on the patio area of the garden on nice warm days, she was shot a while back with an air rifle so rarely ventures away from the garden now. My boys are on the otherhand are lazy so and so's lazying about all day upstairs on the beds, they don't go out not that they haven't got the option they just choose to stay in all day, treat the place like a hotel downstairs only coming down for dinner then back off to bed for them!


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Wonderful thanks...
Husband is an electrician but not all that handy really but his cousin is a carpenter so between them they should be able to knock something up. Can't bear seeing the cats cooped up indoors but too scared to let them out - going to put it at the kitchen window so they can come and go on their own terms - day or night. 

Emily


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

Schimmel said:


> Ours are indoor cats only. We have a large, fully enclosed wire cat run attached to the back of the home, the window is left open and the cats can come and go as they please. There is no way on earth any of ours would ever be given free access to outdoors for a number of reasons:
> 
> a) we're a breeding home, the cats health and kittens health would be at risk if they were outdoors mixing with the neighbourhood cats
> b) theft, big problem with any pedigree cats
> ...


I am in total agreeance!!!!!!!


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

Some good points being made, keep them coming


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

i have really enjoyed reading this thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyone got any pictures of there outside pens or runs,,,,,,,,,,,,,i would love to see them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*This is ours. We are building another one and making more things for the cats in the back yard this summer.*


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

thats really good,,,,,,,,i bet they will love laying out in the sun,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Im on the fence on this one for 2 reasons................

I had 2 rescue moggies who were used to going outside so i continued to let them as I didnt think it fair to stop them.
I then got a moggie kitten and everyone around me told me it would be unfair to keep her in (even though deep down i was scared to death of something happening and didnt really want to - but i was made to feel guilty).

I now have 2 pedigrees who certainly dont go out as they could not only get stolen but all the other things like being run over and all the other dangers that come with it.

I didnt know what best to do when i got my pedigrees and didnt know whether to continue letting my moggies out or keep them all in (i have a cat flap u see). Again i was told it would be cruel to keep them in. So for now the cat flap is open one way (they can get in from outside, but cant get back out). And when they want to go out they sit at the door the old fashioned way.

So far so good but as the kittens get older they may cotton onto the fact that they need to pull the flap towards them (which a previous family cat knew how to do). And i have no doubt in my mind that my clever Burmese & Siamese will master it.

I dunno what I will do when I have to rethink my strategy other than to stop using the cat flap altogether and let the moggies in and out the door.

As for not blaming the drivers for running the cats over when they go out. I agree with that but some drivers dont have the decency to stop and try and locate the owner to tell them that their baby is dead!  By law you have to stop for a dog but not a cat 

Food for thought..........................
You wouldnt let a dog out to wander on its own, so why a cat??


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Mine stay in, however Betual likes to go out on her harness and i have an outdoor run. When i buy a house next year going to build a huge outdoor run for them. I personally think its so risky now letting cats out, Betula would certainly get stolen, alot of bengals and other cats do get pinched  

We rescued 2 ferile cats years ago at my parents, they had 60 acres of wood and farmland behind the house, and one acre across the orad, they still crossed that road and were both run over within a year, it absolutely broke my heart. I will never let my cats out again.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> thats really good,,,,,,,,i bet they will love laying out in the sun,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


*They do Not sure if you can see, but we put in things that dangle down for them to play & bat about and shelves ect for them to jump on.*


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

There has been a lot of reports recently in our area about cats getting shot with air pellets by f***ing idiots who have nothing better to do with their time that kill and be cruel to animals - sickos!!! 

Also in our area of Peterborough there was a report recently (last month) on a cat that was tortured to death. It had been yanked around by a dog choke chain, burnt in numerous places and beaten to death.

This is what happens when you let cats out!! 

Other than my moggies that are used to going out now i will never let another of my cats out again. Its far too dangerous - and we live in a rural part of Peterborough with fields backing onto our back garden and they are still not safe!


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

colliemerles said:


> i have really enjoyed reading this thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyone got any pictures of there outside pens or runs,,,,,,,,,,,,,i would love to see them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Wow - look at these for ideas - I am going to use one as a plan for the lads - can see them having a fun weekend 

I like these plans because in the house I am building I want the pen away from the house - love the runs to take them there 

Outdoor Cat Enclosures | More than a outside cat run, fence or cage | The Cats Den


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> Wow - look at these for ideas - I am going to use one as a plan for the lads - can see them having a fun weekend
> 
> I like these plans because in the house I am building I want the pen away from the house - love the runs to take them there
> 
> Outdoor Cat Enclosures | More than a outside cat run, fence or cage | The Cats Den


wow they look excellent - i have been looking for something like this.
Thanks for sharing it with us hun


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Emstarz said:


> Wow - look at these for ideas - I am going to use one as a plan for the lads - can see them having a fun weekend
> 
> I like these plans because in the house I am building I want the pen away from the house - love the runs to take them there
> 
> Outdoor Cat Enclosures | More than a outside cat run, fence or cage | The Cats Den


wow they have some great things on there dont they,,,,,


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

colliemerles said:


> wow they have some great things on there dont they,,,,,


Did you see the gallery - amazing!!!
Runs off top floor apartments and all sorts - there's one that has a secret run to the main pen all down the side of the garden covered by hedges - this is the type of thing I want.
Going to have to start saving the pennies - me thinks.
Or just copy them


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*There are a few breeders that I know of that have something similar. They have runways down the garden and into pens, they're fab *


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## shel6733 (May 27, 2008)

I have a different view 
Whilst I agree that all animals should have total freedom, cats are cavalier when it comes to roaming
My neighbor has 7 cats, not neutered.They come into every garden (we are a row of terraced houses) The problem I find is that the sheer number of cats is overpowering, there are about 12 in total in a row of 6 houses
They have managed to kill my goldfish in-spite of netting cover, they just stab the fish, and when there is no more movement, they walk away
This usually happens in the early hours of the morning They are able to come and go at will through a cat flap
I am considering buying a sonic device which emits a high pitched sound, inaudible to humans
There are people who feel this is a cruel approach, but what is one to do?
I like the cats, but not their habits, I am able to pick up after my dog, but cats defaecate anywhere in plant pots on my patio
I'd be interested in your views
PS I haven't got the hang of the icons or total control of the computer for that matter, I post this with a good heart Shel


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Look at this for indoor cats - fab and tidy 

Catwalk


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> There are people who feel this is a cruel approach, but what is one to do?


*Whilst my cats now don't go out. Years ago as I said in my post the 3 I had did. If somebody did'nt want them in their garden for the same reasons as you, then fair enough to me. It's your garden and why should you have other peoples cats messing in it!! You are not being cruel by putting devices in to stop them. Cruel is throwing stuff at them, poisoning them ect. I know it's expense to you and not knowing the size of your garden, but what about some netting on the inside of your fence ? You can angle it inwards, that works very well*


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

shel6733 said:


> I have a different view
> Whilst I agree that all animals should have total freedom, cats are cavalier when it comes to roaming
> My neighbor has 7 cats, not neutered.They come into every garden (we are a row of terraced houses) The problem I find is that the sheer number of cats is overpowering, there are about 12 in total in a row of 6 houses
> They have managed to kill my goldfish in-spite of netting cover, they just stab the fish, and when there is no more movement, they walk away
> ...


I think you are completely within your rights to do this - when my cats went out in my garden all my neighbors had cats too so wasn't really a problem but I know a lot of gardeners this find cats a complete pest.
I am lucky as I am in the middle of the country - no one in the vicinity for cats to annoy - but it is a very valid point of this discussion to say that cats wandering free can be a nuisance and as their owners we should be more considerate.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

colliemerles said:


> i have really enjoyed reading this thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyone got any pictures of there outside pens or runs,,,,,,,,,,,,,i would love to see them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


I have just taken this of my cat housr/run, and they love it in there, mind you so do i


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

and this one,


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*That is Fab Linda, I want one, lol*


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## Guest (May 29, 2008)

My two go out and any cat i have ever owned has been aloud outside. At the min my 2 are in at 10 every night purely as we are having a lot of fox's kill cats round here and i've already had to tell one owner her cat was killed, so i'd hate to have someone ring me with the same phone call. 
The hallway window is always open (except at night) so they can come and go as they please. We live in a small village away from traffic with fields all around us, both cats are spayed, micro chipped, vaccinated, have break away collars on and id tags so if any problems appeared i.e lost cat, i know i have got everything covered.
When the kitten arrives she wont be aloud out till she is about 6 months purely because she is very small and at 6 months she will be spayed.
I think the only thing i would change allowing cats outside would be were they go to the toilet, If they went in the same spot then u could clear it up but when gardining its like a guessing game will i or wont i find any?


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

A lot of people do not understand why cats, pedigree ones in particular need to be kept in doors. I've been getting funny looks when talking about my new kitten and i mention that he doesn't have outdoors access. 
I live in london, i could not let him out even if he wasn't pedigree, too many busy roads around. But they seem to think i'm being cruel


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## Guest (May 29, 2008)

trish1200 said:


> A lot of people do not understand why cats, pedigree ones in particular need to be kept in doors. I've been getting funny looks when talking about my new kitten and i mention that he doesn't have outdoors access.
> I live in london, i could not let him out even if he wasn't pedigree, too many busy roads around. But they seem to think i'm being cruel


Oh if i had a pedigree cat they wouldn't be allowed out at all even though i am in the country. Your not crual at all hun you are just looking after your baby xx


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

Selk67U2 said:


> *That is Fab Linda, I want one, lol*


easy to build, me & my OH did it last august, all heated,
there now is free veiw tv radio & telephone, comfy arm chairs for them and me to share, i spend most of my time in there with the cats, & my laptop its so peaceful,


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

rottiesloveragdolls said:


> easy to build, me & my OH did it last august, all heated,
> there now is free veiw tv radio & telephone, comfy arm chairs for them and me to share, i spend most of my time in there with the cats, & my laptop its so peaceful,


Wow it's fantastic - this is the kind of thing I want at the new place. Out of interest do you just carry you cats out, is it attached to the house or do you have a run. Just trying to work out logistics.

Emily


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## Guest (May 29, 2008)

I have 2 outside cats,one 11 years old and one 6 years old,i lost my 12 year old in a rta recentley,and after this tried to intergrate my outsiders with my indoorsies,this was a total disaster!i would never let another cat out again,saying that i wouldnt have anymore moggies.My indoor cats are happy being just that indoors and safe,lots of people have commented that its cruel etc etc but how can they miss what they have never known?i took harry my raggie boy out into the front garden the other day on a harness he loved rolling in the grass,however now whenever the door gets opened,he`s there,i didnt have this problem before.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

Emstarz said:


> Wow it's fantastic - this is the kind of thing I want at the new place. Out of interest do you just carry you cats out, is it attached to the house or do you have a run. Just trying to work out logistics.
> 
> Emily


At the moment i carry them out one @ a time,  but am talking the OH into building a tunnel from front room window straight in to it, so then they can come and go as they please,


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Schimmel said:


> Ours are indoor cats only. We have a large, fully enclosed wire cat run attached to the back of the home, the window is left open and the cats can come and go as they please. There is no way on earth any of ours would ever be given free access to outdoors for a number of reasons:
> 
> a) we're a breeding home, the cats health and kittens health would be at risk if they were outdoors mixing with the neighbourhood cats
> b) theft, big problem with any pedigree cats
> ...


Totally agree and well said Kat


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## Chikadee (Mar 26, 2008)

I have two cats, and they both are allowed outside. We live in such a beautiful quiet area that it wouldn't be fair to stop them from havin cat adventures 

However, I do not have a bad opinion on keepin a cat indoors, it's an individual choice that each cat owner makes, neither being right or wrong. 

Also, if I lived near a lot of traffic, I think I'd keep my cats indoors
1. They're safer
2. Drivers are safer


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Totally agree and well said Kat


I'm on a roll today I tell ya' mate   (Looking forward to seeing May and Ross at the show on Sunday btw)


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## Kat28 (Mar 19, 2008)

I have 3 cats that all have access to outside. My moggie is 11 now and up until moving a year ago she never set foot in house now she comes and goes as she pleases but isnt keen on back door been shut. My 2 persians are allowed out as well and can be found following kids round garden.They have a cat flap into conservatory for at night as old one wouldnt accept using a tray once she realised she could get outside.There is a litter tray in there as well so persians dont really go out at night they use that. We have a big garden were we live now and they never leave it can be found somewere in there were we lived before the persians were kept in at night and when we first moved they were as well.That said you can normally find them both asleep in my eldests bed with him on a night time. If i lived on a main road then yes they would be kept in but were we are they are safe and dont leave the garden so they are not at risk of been run over and the street is very quiet on end of drive. Only time they venture down there though is if im going to get bins in . I think they woulld go mad if they were kept in all time but as im typing this snowy is asleep at top of stairs and roony is flat out on my bed they are both very homely cats but like to get some fresh air out doors as well.Plus my kids dont know how to shut a door after themselves so would constantly be saying shut the door or chasing cats round garden


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

snowy said:


> Plus my kids dont know how to shut a door after themselves so would constantly be saying shut the door or chasing cats round garden


This going to be my problem - ok in winter I lock all doors and windows so the kids can't open but summer.............


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Schimmel said:


> I'm on a roll today I tell ya' mate   (Looking forward to seeing May and Ross at the show on Sunday btw)


Bet you areKnow you'll all enjoy it-alas i'll be patient for any/all "news"Glad your experience with asbo spider didn't traumatise youLOl


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

See the much quoted post No 11 reasons a) to g) inclusive - Boberg Siamese (and the Maine Coon) are my 'fur-children'   

Have seen some absolutely fabbo cat runs and play areas on here - thanks for these links.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

There is no need to let our cats have free roam.
We wouldn't allow our human toddlers, or even our dogs out without reins/leashes - so why do we allow our cats out to have free rein? Are they that worthless?

Nooooooooooooooooo

Take your cat for a walk on a harness or keep it inside. Letting it out is just asking for trouble. It endangers the local wildlife, it annoys the neighbours (nobody likes to smell cat poo baking in the sun on a hot summers day - especially when you don't own a cat!), they might choose another home over yours and, of course, they'll end up getting killed sooner or later.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Betula loves her harness, she has huge sractch posts, tonnes of toys and endless attention, she doesnt cry to go out unless she can see me outside and shes inside! But she crys if ive shut the door of the room im in, she has to follow me everywhere!! haha

She likes spying on the neighbours!


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I have read the first post and I will give my honest opinion then I will read the other posts.

The first cat I had was a stray, I always gave him full freedom to roam in case he was able to find his original home. Never had a problem with RTA.

After him I got two kittens which were given the same freedom to roam.

I now have two kittens, and I am looking for a suitable cat run for them. The road is now a concern to me over the years the volume of traffic has increased, and there are other factors like foxes, other cats.

The downside is that they will never know what it is like to hunt or experience the freedom of an independent cat.

Sue


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## Guest (May 29, 2008)

Hi,

Thats a really nice harness, could you tell me where you got it from please. I have been looking for a decent one and the only ones I have seen are really flimsy awful ones.

Thank you

Jomall


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## Boleyn (Feb 1, 2008)

My cat goes out, but it isnt something that I am too happy with, I like her to have the freedom but it is a worry. she is always kept in at night though.
We are in the process of sorting out cat proofing our garden which I will be a lot happier with.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

sskmick said:


> I have read the first post and I will give my honest opinion then I will read the other posts.
> 
> The first cat I had was a stray, I always gave him full freedom to roam in case he was able to find his original home. Never had a problem with RTA.
> 
> ...


They would still maintain their independence Sue and with a suitable run they'd find other ways to amuse themselves-ours all have runs and honestly it doesn't take away from their natural behaviour just gives you much needed peace of mind and them safteyI know it's hard to imagine when you've had outdoor cats but honestly it's great and they soon adapt in fact my moggie Noodles blossomed in his batchelor pad coz he knows he is safe and has all his creature comforts with him and we have a lot of chats and cuddles together-plus he gets to spy in saftey at night too-his fav timeI did have to have firm words with him at first thoughHe kept having sneaky catnip partys at night and snored thru the mess in the dayHe's calmed down a tad now thankgod


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Jomall said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thats a really nice harness, could you tell me where you got it from please. I have been looking for a decent one and the only ones I have seen are really flimsy awful ones.
> 
> ...


Yeh i had the same problem, the cat harness' also did not have quick release clasps which i didnt like and was a pain to get on. Its actually a rabbit harness, i measured it and its bigger than the cat harness but fully adjustable, the length from the neck to the shoulder blades is identical and i find it so much nicer than the cat one i have. Its from Pets at home the rabbit boutique. It has all the measurements on the front  Its pink and sparkly  they have black ones too


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## Kay73 (Mar 26, 2008)

i had to rehome my moggy which became agressive after bieng constantly beaten up by an un neutered neighbourhood tom. there have also been alot of cats killed up my road due to RTA's. i brought my ragdoll because he is an indoor cat! i like knowing where my babies are, and that they are safe. IMO if a cat has never been out they wont know what they are missing.
as long as indoor cats are provided with scratch posts and toys so they can express their natural behaviour, and have lots of human company they can be very happy


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Schimmel said:


> Ours are indoor cats only. We have a large, fully enclosed wire cat run attached to the back of the home, the window is left open and the cats can come and go as they please. There is no way on earth any of ours would ever be given free access to outdoors for a number of reasons:
> 
> a) we're a breeding home, the cats health and kittens health would be at risk if they were outdoors mixing with the neighbourhood cats
> b) theft, big problem with any pedigree cats
> ...


A couple more to add to this...............
1) Theft of a valuable pedigree
2) Fleas, ticks and lice
3) Risk of diseases from other unvaccinated or infected cats
4) Unwanted pregnancy when I practice controlled breeding

Even if I were buying a domestic moggy kitten, I would keep the kitten indoors and fetch it up that way. If they have never known any different they grow up quite happily being indoor cats. I have plenty of exercise toys inside the house for the cats which keep them fit and healthy.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

It just shows by the number of people just on here alone who have lost cats to roadkill or know somebody else that has. The numbers are really very scary


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## sophoscar (Apr 25, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> It just shows by the number of people just on here alone who have lost cats to roadkill or know somebody else that has. The numbers are really very scary


I would like to keep my cat inside and was going to but he kept escaping and meowing at the doors. I gave in to easy and let him out, now he meows if he's locked in but not night time thou.

I would like to build a run, it's just my dad doesn't like the idea and says we have no where to put except next to the garage but thats got the hose pipe tap.

Ther is no way i could ever part with my cat!! I have had animals all my life and the house would feel empty without any in.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I agree that cats having known the outdoors will go stir crazy being kept in. In an ideal world we would all have our gardens cat proofed or runs built but it is a very costly thing to have done, but would be the perfect answer all round


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> It just shows by the number of people just on here alone who have lost cats to roadkill or know somebody else that has. The numbers are really very scary


*It's scarey is'nt it. I wish there was a long term solution*


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I cringe every time I see a cat out inbetween parked cars. I'm driving along and I am just bricking it that that cat runs out in front of my vehicle  Its something thats constantly on my mind when driving, but obviously not on other drivers', although sometimes it can happen before you know about it.

I had a horrific event a couple of years ago, I got in my car to go to work and got just round the block when my car squealed to a halt. I heard a horrendous sound coming from under the bonnet and when I lifted if up, a cat from across the road had got mangled up in my car's fan. I was heartbroke and shaking, and just ran into the nearest house, screeching like a mad woman for them to ring the vets. The cat had just been sheltering in a dry spot from the cold and rain and ended up in this nightmare. The vet had to put the cat to sleep whilst it was still stuck there and had to break the fan to get it out. I still have bad dreams about it yet now


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Oh, god, poor you, thats my worst nightmare too, i've had several run out in front of me, thankfully i've been in the position to miss them. 
Years ago my dad was driving down a street when a cat ran out in front of him, theres nothing he could do to avoid it, there were cars on both sides of the road so he could swerve*


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## sophoscar (Apr 25, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> I cringe every time I see a cat out inbetween parked cars. I'm driving along and I am just bricking it that that cat runs out in front of my vehicle  Its something thats constantly on my mind when driving, but obviously not on other drivers', although sometimes it can happen before you know about it.
> 
> I had a horrific event a couple of years ago, I got in my car to go to work and got just round the block when my car squealed to a halt. I heard a horrendous sound coming from under the bonnet and when I lifted if up, a cat from across the road had got mangled up in my car's fan. I was heartbroke and shaking, and just ran into the nearest house, screeching like a mad woman for them to ring the vets. The cat had just been sheltering in a dry spot from the cold and rain and ended up in this nightmare. The vet had to put the cat to sleep whilst it was still stuck there and had to break the fan to get it out. I still have bad dreams about it yet now


Awwwww, that must of been awful.

My dad ran over a cat that belong to people across the road. He reversed backwards out the drive and didn't see it was in the middle of the road. I ran out afterwards telling him to stop. The good thing is that the cat is still alive.

I would like to make my garden safe for my cat, problem is that my garden is full of bushes and hedges instead of fence. So many holes to escape.


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## Amy_1984 (Apr 19, 2008)

I have that same problem... Privets that have been worn away in certain areas, there is an attempted mesh job thats been there for years but its all broken away now. I argued with myself something rotten as some of you know about letting Ollie outdoors or in, I had him at 9weeks, hes now 14 weeks, and i bought him a harness. After his injections i decided it was time to see the big outdoors, put his harness on... what a handsome little chappy he looked! Got to the front door and he just refused to go out! So i sat on the front door step with him harnessed and he sunbathed on my tiles in the hallway lol. Ran into the house away from the postman and then went back to sunbathing with the door open while i drank a cool iced cola  So he made the decision for me in the end 

Ollie is still an indoor kitty, but we go out on the nice days with the harness.... If we manage to get past the front door lol


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Just to add to the horror of cats being run over - my uncle ran his own over - luckily it survived but he was horrified.
I would almost always swerve for a cat as an automatic reaction which I suppose makes them pretty dangerous if there was something on the other side!

Emily


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

My cats tend to run away from cars... apart from lottie when she hears my truck coming, she comes bounding home (isn't that cute!) she'll sit about 4ft away until i turn the engine off and open the door, then she'll jump on my lap 

Although I do really worry that they'll get run over, they do seem to avoid the roads and play in the back gardens.. luckily pretty much everyone has cats round us, so it's not too bad


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

mattyh said:


> My cats tend to run away from cars... apart from lottie when she hears my truck coming, she comes bounding home (isn't that cute!) she'll sit about 4ft away until i turn the engine off and open the door, then she'll jump on my lap
> 
> Although I do really worry that they'll get run over, they do seem to avoid the roads and play in the back gardens.. luckily pretty much everyone has cats round us, so it's not too bad


My cats run away from cars most do - but my boy that was hit enjoyed chasing rabbits and if they're on the hunt it is natural for them to just focus on their target if it's across the road they are too locked in to check for cars.


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## Guest (May 30, 2008)

my mum just let her cat that she has adopted out yesterday for the first time since she has had him(2 n a half weeks) and he loved it, he was so happy to be out, he really missed his freedom and he came back a few hours later n went to bed shattered from exploring


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

claire said:


> my mum just let her cat that she has adopted out yesterday for the first time since she has had him(2 n a half weeks) and he loved it, he was so happy to be out, he really missed his freedom and he came back a few hours later n went to bed shattered from exploring


Errrrrrrmmmmmm everything crossed for him then and hopefully that dreaded day wont come


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## Guest (May 30, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Errrrrrrmmmmmm everything crossed for him then and hopefully that dreaded day wont come


mum lives in a very quiet cul-de-sac next to unused farmers field so he is quite safe


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

A safe cat is an indoor cat !
So don't let your cats out is my opinion


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

I virtually live in a field and am surrounded by them on a very quiet road - my cat got hit and he wasn't even much of an adventurer - I am only saying this because I don't want anyone else to have to go through the heartache that I still suffer from.

Emily


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*A couple of people I know of lately had Pedigree cats and because they lived virtually in the middle of nowhere, let their cats out for short times. Sadly they too have been killed, one was found half a mile away, hit by a car on a quiet country lane. Sadly it happens where ever we live*


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## Guest (May 30, 2008)

but its natural for a cat to roam isntit? its in the nature?


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

This is where it is difficult, for those cats that have never been out then fine but for those that are used to being able to go outside then it would drive them insane to be kept in. So what do you do, I know yes they can be safer kept in, but my horses, what should I do keep them in their stables so they don't get hurt. That would be cruel, I had a horse put to sleep when he broke his leg galloping around the field, but I can't take away their quality of life just to keep them safe. Also you take your dogs for walks so they get out and get to stimulate their minds. Unfortunately nothing is safe anymore!


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *A couple of people I know of lately had Pedigree cats and because they lived virtually in the middle of nowhere, let their cats out for short times. Sadly they too have been killed, one was found half a mile away, hit by a car on a quiet country lane. Sadly it happens where ever we live*


Ok this is hard but I want to tell his story - my angel got out at night was hit and must've been fatally wounded immediately - he jumped back in the window to get to me - he was coughing and I thought he had some kind of furball - I was alone in the house with the kids and when I realised it was serious I phoned all and managed to get a vet to come over. 
I sat down on my son's floor with North in my arms and Star stood next to me - my husband returned from the pub 2mins later - North took one look at him and then died there in my arms.
There is nothing the vet could've done for him.

They say cats are meant go and hide when they're dying but he said goodbye.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Ahhh, Em, i'm so sorry. He knew you loved him((hugs))*


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

claire said:


> but its natural for a cat to roam isntit? its in the nature?


I am building my cats somewhere to play - get fresh air - hopefully with things to climb etc. I couldn't stand to lose another - I don't think you want them roaming although they need outdoors exercise mine like to just laze in the sun - roaming is done by full Tom's and it is usually a nuisance.

Emily


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## Guest (May 31, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> I am building my cats somewhere to play - get fresh air - hopefully with things to climb etc. I couldn't stand to lose another - I don't think you want them roaming although they need outdoors exercise mine like to just laze in the sun - roaming is done by full Tom's and it is usually a nuisance.
> 
> Emily


i agree with what are saying but this cat is 6 years old and has been allowed via a cat flap all his life so it would br cruel to stop him now


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

claire said:


> i agree with what are saying but this cat is 6 years old and has been allowed via a cat flap all his life so it would br cruel to stop him now


I can't make you do anything - my cat that was run over was 9yrs old and had been going out all his life!
My girl is 9yrs old and has been out all her life - I would prefer to keep her in and alive - or build her a pen.
But we all do things differently.


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## Guest (May 31, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> I can't make you do anything - my cat that was run over was 9yrs old and had been going out all his life!
> My girl is 9yrs old and has been out all her life - *I would prefer to keep her in and alive *- or build her a pen.
> But we all do things differently.


i do agree with what u are saying but letting a cat go outside doesnt mean they *will* be killed! and keepin one in doesnt mean they *wont*. accidents happen in the home too


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

claire said:


> i do agree with what u are saying but letting a cat go outside doesnt mean they *will* be killed! and keepin one in doesnt mean they *wont*. accidents happen in the home too


Very true - can't argue with that reasoning - as I said my cat was outside for nearly 9yrs - just wouldn't be worth for the risk for me now after what I went through that's all.

Emily


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## Guest (May 31, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> Very true - can't argue with that reasoning - as I said my cat was outside for nearly 9yrs - just wouldn't be worth for the risk for me now after what I went through that's all.
> 
> Emily


dont blame u tho, at least when they are in ya know where they are!!!! it must be a lot less worry


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

claire said:


> i do agree with what u are saying but letting a cat go outside doesnt mean they *will* be killed! and keepin one in doesnt mean they *wont*. accidents happen in the home too


However, by letting them roam freely it does increase their chances of being killed and they are certainly more at risk than indoor cats. Our cats have been indoors for over 5 years and we have never lost one due to an injury in the home.


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## Guest (May 31, 2008)

Schimmel said:


> However, by letting them roam freely it does increase their chances of being killed and they are certainly more at risk than indoor cats. Our cats have been indoors for over 5 years and we have never lost one due to an injury in the home.


agreed was just sayin it can happen and letting ya cat out doesnt mean it WILL die, my mum has had a cat before n there are several on her street n not one has died on the roads because they are very very quiet,,,,,,,,, i dont think cats should be let out near main roads


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

claire said:


> agreed was just sayin it can happen and letting ya cat out doesnt mean it WILL die, my mum has had a cat before n there are several on her street n not one has died on the roads because they are very very quiet,,,,,,,,, i dont think cats should be let out near main roads


I can't help but say that the problem is that you don't know if your cat will wander near to a main road and my road is a VERY VERY quiet country lane - it doesn't matter how quiet or busy the road is. 
I think my cats where better off with a busy road as they knew to stick away from it because of all the noise - when it is quiet they don't expect something to be coming.

I do not disagree with you letting your cat out - I just disagree with your reasoning as to why it is safe - IMO it is a risk you are choosing to take.

Emily


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

My two cats were ferels when i got them from CPL they never go out even if doors are open, i feel much safer that way, my ginger jumped through an open window and jumped back in so quick it was funny, i think she thought she would never get in again and have to go back to living in the wild, so i am against cats roaming i love them to much to risk them getting run over or killed some other way, so im pleased they wont venture outside.


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## Guest (May 31, 2008)

Emstarz said:


> I can't help but say that the problem is that you don't know if your cat will wander near to a main road and my road is a VERY VERY quiet country lane - it doesn't matter how quiet or busy the road is.
> I think my cats where better off with a busy road as they knew to stick away from it because of all the noise - when it is quiet they don't expect something to be coming.
> 
> I do not disagree with you letting your cat out - I just disagree with your reasoning as to why it is safe - IMO it is a risk you are choosing to take.
> ...


its not my cat therefore not my choice! i do believe its safe where they are!there are cars on the street so the cats do see them and move but its a cul-de-sac so slow moving and only about 20 houses so every1 knows they are their


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

claire said:


> its not my cat therefore not my choice! i do believe its safe where they are!there are cars on the street so the cats do see them and move but its a cul-de-sac so slow moving and only about 20 houses so every1 knows they are their


I had a phone call today and the people who spoke to me also live in a 
cul-de- sac, there cat was under the neighbors car and got killed by the neighbor reversing his car out of the drive  so as I said you never know for certain that your outdoor cat is safe no matter how quiet or busy the road is.


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## Guest (May 31, 2008)

may said:


> I had a phone call today and the people who spoke to me also live in a
> cul-de- sac, there cat was under the neighbors car and got killed by the neighbor reversing his car out of the drive  so as I said you never know for certain that your outdoor cat is safe no matter how quiet or busy the road is.


once again i agree there is a risk but i dont think it can be higher in a cul-de-sac than by a main road but both are risky but i believe cats need to be out n i dont know anyone that has house cats


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

may said:


> I had a phone call today and the people who spoke to me also live in a
> cul-de- sac, there cat was under the neighbors car and got killed by the neighbor reversing his car out of the drive  so as I said you never know for certain that your outdoor cat is safe no matter how quiet or busy the road is.


That is how my uncle ran his own cat over. 

Emily


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

It looks like the overwhelming majority of people think cats should be kept indoors.

What we need to work on is acceptance of indoor living for cats. Particularly with British people that have been brought up with the quaint idea that being outside is good for the cat.

We should start a campaign to promote indoor living.
If I had money I would put an ad on TV similar to the drink driving ads to force people to think about what they're doing.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

I feel so strongly about this that I've just bought two domains which we will be running to educate the public and stir public awareness of the problems our cats face when they're let out to roam.

I would appreciate submitted articles from breeders to put on our website www.theindoorcat.com - that's the one to educate. (Brand new - nothing there now)

I think we should also have a dynamic and active campaign site - either a forum, or another kind of interactive site where members can post articles and statistics aimed to make the public think about the risks. This is going to be www.keepcatsindoors.com Coming Soon! . I'll be looking for some software for that over the next couple of weeks. I would also appreciate volunteers to moderate the interactive site which is bound to attract hate mail and hate posts. Obviously we'll do as much as we can, but with the cats and everything else we have to do to keep ourselves ticking over here, we could do with some help.

Hope it's alright to post those links. They're in a good cause after all.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Wonderful idea because the general impression is that it's cruel not to let your cat out to wander. You could include some of the pictures of cat runs etc showing the alternatives like the clever one that man has built into the inside of his house - see my earlier post.
There is a big growth rate in the urban fox in British Cities and although I don't know if it is fact or fiction they kill cats (IMO mostly fiction) they are scavengers not hunters - they carry all sorts of nasties.
You could include what a nuisance they are to other people as I think this is something that cat owners can overlook.
I think it would be hard to find real statistics of how many cats are killed when roaming but it's probably horrendous!!
On top of this there are plenty of horror stories of what some idiots do to cats they catch 

Hope it's a real success and will support wherever possible.
Please keep us up to date with how it's going

Emily 



SavannahKitten said:


> I feel so strongly about this that I've just bought two domains which we will be running to educate the public and stir public awareness of the problems our cats face when they're let out to roam.
> 
> I would appreciate submitted articles from breeders to put on our website www.theindoorcat.com - that's the one to educate. (Brand new - nothing there now)
> 
> ...


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## drawn-to-animals (Apr 3, 2008)

all my cats our house cats..... we have plans to build a run attached to the house in the near future - if they do go out they are all supervised and not allowed out of the back garden, as there are too many busy roads near by.....

i dont see the problem in letting your cat out if you feel it is safe enough to do so.... when i lived in the highlands our cats were allowed out to roam as there were very little dangers.


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

I do not agree that cats should be locked inside, there are alot of posts on this thread and I haven't had time to work my way through them all as I have only recently joined this site.

I realise there are dangers in letting cats outside, that is an unfortuntate fact of life, much like there are dangers to people going outside and every other animal on the planet.

Did you know an indoor cat can sleep for up to 23 hours a day, although I know a cat does tend to sleep alot weather they are inside or outside, inside cats on average sleep more than those that go outside.

...just a thought (and impossible to do) but i do wonder if you took the average life expecatancy of an indoor cat and the average amount of time it is awake in each day and then did the same for an outdoor cat.
I do wonder if the correlation will show that they actually have a simular amount of 'active' hours in their whole life.

anyway, by the by, my personal opinion is that no matter how many toys and cat things you have within your house, you cannot achieve the sort of stimulation you can for your cat outside.

There are two types of people that keep cats indoors, one genuinly cares for there well being, believes that their life is just as worth while indoors as it would be outdoors, however provides as much entertianment as possible. The second type is the one that finds it more convient to have an indoor cat, no calling it in late at night, no worry about where he is, and no feeling of loss if it gets run over (or something).

Similarly, there are two types of people that have outdoor cats. The first that genuinly thinks the cats life is worth more if it has the experiences of the outside world and believes that if its life is cut short by an outside danger, then they would feel that the amount of years it had were great years! The second type is the person who puts the cat out because he is in the way, makes a mess, leaves cat hairs about, pesters them too much ect.

I am not sure the promotion of indoor or outdoor cats are whats required here, I think maybe we should be considering person two in both situations. As for the inside cats, these are the ones with the truely boring miserable lives, and as for the outdoor cats, these are the ones left out at night and most likley to get run done by a car or wonder off.

As i said at the begining, I am all for outdoor cats, what i actually mean by this is outdoor/indoor, ones with access to go where they want when they want. However, I think alot of those people who keep there cats in for a genuine regard for their safety and demonstrate this by providing safe outdoor areas for them to play, such as runs, or cat safe gardens.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> As for the inside cats, these are the ones with the truely boring miserable lives


*OMG!!! I would like you to come to any of us owners of indoor cats houses and see what lives they lead. None of my cats have boring miserable lives. You can't say stuff like that, you don't know any of us or our cats. I'm sorry but that is a total out of order statement to make My cats do have access to the back only it's totally cat proofed*


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *OMG!!! I would like you to come to any of us owners of indoor cats houses and see what lives they lead. None of my cats have boring miserable lives. You can't say stuff like that, you don't know any of us or our cats. I'm sorry but that is a total out of order statement to make My cats do have access to the back only it's totally cat proofed*


OMG OMG i think you need to read the post more carefully!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*I'm not getting into an argument with you. Thats how I interpreted your post thats all. *


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

I'm not trying to argue, but please then allow me to explain.

What I have said is there are 2 types of people that keep their cats indoors, one type like yourself, that provides lots of toys and stimulation.
And the second type that does not, it is the second type that I have said leaves a cat with a boring miserable life.

At the end of my post, I have also said, I have great respect for people who provide runs or cat safe gardens.

It is not fair for you to jump down my throat when I have said nothing to offend you.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Ok, fair enough, I was'nt intending to jump down your throat. It's just how I read it. I can see both sides of this debate, each their own in my opinion, but it's inside cats for me all the way *


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *Ok, fair enough, I was'nt intending to jump down your throat. It's just how I read it. I can see both sides of this debate, each their own in my opinion, but it's inside cats for me all the way *


Thats fair enough, I think everyone here just wants what they feel is best for there cats, otherwise we wouldn't be on a forum chatting about them.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

This is a forum where there is a mix of moggie and/or pedigree owners and some breeders. 

I can fully emphasise with breeders - their cats are in the forefront of promoting the breed and mostly they will either keep their cats indoors and fully stimulated or have a secure cat proof area outside. They ccertainly do not want their studs and queens breeding outside the pedigree.

However I feel that there is a certain amount of 'panic' propagated by forums such as this concerning what might happen if you let your cat outside. 

It is a fact of life that outside is risky and that an owner who let's their cat outside for whatever reason must accept that risk.

However when I was young both cats and children had a lot more freedom - and I think that this freedom has been lost for both. Yes, more cars, more news horror stories. 

15 years ago I did not think twice about letting my pedigree cat out - now I do, not because the environment has changed but because I suppose I have been made more risk aware........

I am on the fence about this debate - if I could make my garden cat proof I would - and i have investigated but its a peculiar garden. I don't like the look of cat runs - they are just plain ugly in my mind. Still looking for a solution where I can just open up my back door and windows..........

However the cats I have now have never had the experience of unfettered freedom and therefore don't hanker to be out i.e. don't make a dash out of the open door. So maybe they will just stay in.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> However when I was young both cats and children had a lot more freedom - and I think that this freedom has been lost for both. Yes, more cars, more news horror stories.


*I have to say I agree totally with you there Jane*


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

No fence sitting for me. I've experienced the horror of RTAs and the heart break.

Why are cats treated differently from dogs? Are they loved less?


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

On the indoor/outdoors thing - If you cat has an outdoor run with free access or a safe garden - which I would love but my garden is almost an acre so hard to fence all of it in - then I don't suppose it is an indoors cat really - is it?

It is true there are more and more horror stories - it is a sad fact that the world is getting a more dangerous place - it is a risk to allow your cats freedom just as it is a risk to allow your cats freedom - if you cherish your children and your cats you do all you can to minimise their risks.

Indoors cats and outdoors cats will sleep when they want and where they want and I don't think this removes and anything from their quality of life.

Emily


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

@ Savannah - So by that reasoning, birds shouldn't be kept in cages, as it stops them flying about?

They're not the same animal, so aren't really comparable.


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> No fence sitting for me. I've experienced the horror of RTAs and the heart break.
> 
> Why are cats treated differently from dogs? Are they loved less?


Abso-bloody-lutely!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> Are they loved less?


*Not in my case they're not. As far as i'm concerned my cats will never get beyond the perimiter of my property. Everything is as cat proofed as we can get it. They still have the freedom of outdoors, but in total safety.*


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2008)

i am suprised at how many people keep there cat indoors, i dont know anyone that does!


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

Well when I first looked into getting kittens for my children (secretly they were mainly for me) they were obviously going to be much loved members of the family & they were going to be my secret weapon against my neighbours cats pooing in my garden.

Unfortunately before we could find kittens a pedigree Burmese was killed right outside my house, & a neighbours cat became the victim of rta & was found dead under my shed. It was a hot summer that year. 

So we decided that when we owned Kittens/cats regardless of their pedigree they would be house cats.

This is my personal choice, I don't want the heartbreak of finding my extended family member dead on the road - or worse never finding them.

We now own Bengals & have attached cat runs to our conservatory so that we can all have fresh air.
I don't feel guilty about keeping them in, they were raised as house kittens now they are house cats.

The neighbours cat's cat poo is still annoying but I can live with it


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> They would still maintain their independence Sue and with a suitable run they'd find other ways to amuse themselves-ours all have runs and honestly it doesn't take away from their natural behaviour just gives you much needed peace of mind and them safteyI know it's hard to imagine when you've had outdoor cats but honestly it's great and they soon adapt in fact my moggie Noodles blossomed in his batchelor pad coz he knows he is safe and has all his creature comforts with him and we have a lot of chats and cuddles together-plus he gets to spy in saftey at night too-his fav timeI did have to have firm words with him at first thoughHe kept having sneaky catnip partys at night and snored thru the mess in the dayHe's calmed down a tad now thankgod


That's brilliant, I mentioned to the vet my thoughts on a cat run. He said some cats are happy being house pets others aren't. That put doubt in my mind.

There is someone on the forum that has a nice tidy cat run. I intend to find the thread. I have found similar ones on a website Fun 4 Pets UK. but they are not tall enough to cover the kitchen window. Whilst I am writing this post what a twit, we could build a small wall and have it attached on top. Can you tell I'm not a DIY person. A nice project to hubby though 

Sue


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2008)

building a wall sounds a bit drastic!kay73 has a nice tidy run outside her kitchen window so she can leave window open and kittys can go out to play!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Kays run is fab, it is on here somewhere, not sure which thread though*


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Sorry guys I had to take Duke for his walk.

It probably is Kay73, I think the thread is cat run or my cat run. I'll find it. The ones I have seen I think are only 6' high. I could have a wooden one but that would need maintaining.

Sue


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

Or buy the wire and make your own that is what we are planning - we have also dabbled with the idea of buying a nice pagoda and then covering that with wire - we may do that eventually with a tunnel from cat flap to it. 
For now we are going to do something simple around the window as we are building a new house which will have something permenant built in (lucky cats & me) 
My cats hate being kept in but when they do go out - they only want to laze just outside the door in the sun so they'll love the run!

Emily


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2008)

sskmick said:


> Sorry guys I had to take Duke for his walk.
> 
> It probably is Kay73, I think the thread is cat run or my cat run. I'll find it. The ones I have seen I think are only 6' high. I could have a wooden one but that would need maintaining.
> 
> Sue


My hubby made kays run,if you contact a similar fabrication company they will make to your exact requirments,height and widththe good things about a steel made run is no maintenance(unlike wood) lasts for ever(unlike wood) unbreakable,and very strong


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

helz said:


> I do not agree that cats should be locked inside, there are alot of posts on this thread and I haven't had time to work my way through them all as I have only recently joined this site.
> 
> I realise there are dangers in letting cats outside, that is an unfortuntate fact of life, much like there are dangers to people going outside and every other animal on the planet.
> 
> ...


I used to think this way, however after having my 2 gorgeous cats killed within a year of eachother on a country road i looked into indoor cats. My cats had 60 acres of farmland, woodland even a wild pond, there was 1 acre across the road and they still crossed it .

I completely disagree with your opinion on housecats having my own now i can tell you they dont sleep much!! haha! Betula is a mad bengal, she spends most of her time bombing round my 3 bedroom house now with my 15 week old kitten, they're like a herd of elephants!! They have huge scratching posts, ive spent a fortune on toys. Betula loves going out on her harness and i also have a run. I am planning to make my garden cat safe when i move house.


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

crofty said:


> I used to think this way, however after having my 2 gorgeous cats killed within a year of eachother on a country road i looked into indoor cats. My cats had 60 acres of farmland, woodland even a wild pond, there was 1 acre across the road and they still crossed it .
> 
> I completely disagree with your opinion on housecats having my own now i can tell you they dont sleep much!! haha! Betula is a mad bengal, she spends most of her time bombing round my 3 bedroom house now with my 15 week old kitten, they're like a herd of elephants!! They have huge scratching posts, ive spent a fortune on toys. Betula loves going out on her harness and i also have a run. I am planning to make my garden cat safe when i move house.


I have also had my fair share of grief from loosing cats in RTAs, out of 11 cats, I have lost 4 in accidents with cars. All at night! This is why I keep my guys in when I go to bed. All but 1 of them were over 10 years old when they got run over, so it wasn't babies I was loosing, (not that it makes it hurt any less).

I assume you mean you disagree with my opinion of how much they sleep? That was not actually an opinion, I read it somewhere (I will see if I can find the source), it did not say all house cats do, it says "house cats can sleep up to 23 hours a day".
Although, I must say, I know what you mean about a heard of elephants, my boys chase each other up and down the stairs and I can't get over their little paws can make so much noise!! 

To be honnest, I would not class yours true as house cats, they get to go outside. I think thats great that you take your guys out like that. Its a bit like you do with children, (although you wouldn't put a child in a pen! but maybe not a bad idea), parents are obviously concerned for their children, but they don't lock them inside, they just accompany them when they go out.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

helz said:


> I have also had my fair share of grief from loosing cats in RTAs, out of 11 cats, I have lost 4 in accidents with cars. All at night! This is why I keep my guys in when I go to bed. All but 1 of them were over 10 years old when they got run over, so it wasn't babies I was loosing, (not that it makes it hurt any less).
> 
> I assume you mean you disagree with my opinion of how much they sleep? That was not actually an opinion, I read it somewhere (I will see if I can find the source), it did not say all house cats do, it says "house cats can sleep up to 23 hours a day".
> Although, I must say, I know what you mean about a heard of elephants, my boys chase each other up and down the stairs and I can't get over their little paws can make so much noise!!
> ...


Yes my male was hit at night, i then kept my little female in at night and let her out in the day, she was hit 6 months later in the middle of the day 

Yes i was referring to the sleeping in the day, my outdoor male used to spend most of the day asleep! Think it depends on the cat really. Yep sounds like my 2 are coming through the ceiling at times!! 

Its difficult because not all cats take to being in a harness, am trying to get Alfie used to it, have only put him in it once so far and he was ok but a little unsure, Im lucky with Betz because she really does enjoy it. I have a 6ft by 8ft run for my rabbits at the mo which they can come out in if the weathers good, but its not really that ideal which is why i want to sort out a proper one.

I think alot of people worry that once they take their cat outside they will want to go out all the time an whinge, mine are good thank god but Alfie does try to follow me out the door at times, but then both of them follow me where ever i go anyway!

If i didnt have an appropriate house (big enough) i just wouldnt have them fullstop, i couldnt handle the thought of any of them getting run over, i was devastated when my other 2 were killed, it broke my heart i just couldnt go through that again or risk it.


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Very close call  Just as well you were very alert and managed to stop in time. The next driver might not be as alert and yet again, this is another example of why we have indoor cats!


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> IMHO...
> 
> Roaming cat's should be treated the same as a stray dog...


whats up darren????? have they been tormenting the dogs n shatting in ya garden lol


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

I dont let my cats out because;

1. Pedigree cats would just get stolen

2. I've seen too many dead kittie's on the side of the road

3. Had a cat killed by a fox in the past

4. There are too many evil people out there that would willingly harm a cat


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

I can only speak for pedigree cats on this one and for them its a definite NO NO!

Most breeders stipulate in their contracts that the cat must be either indoor only or allowed out into a cat safe back garden/run and if deliberately breached would be good enough reason for me to reclaim the cat/kitten.

With good reason as a pedigree will never be as streetwise as a moggy and with them being distinctive they would soon become a prime target for other cats, yobs and cat nappers as well as the dangers of being killed on the road.

A cat that has never known the difference between indoors and outdoors will never miss it.

Its a well proven fact that an indoor cats life span is much longer than an outdoor cats and that in itself should be good enough reason for having an indoor cat.

Lastly why have a cat and want it or expect it to be out of your way most of the time, that does not make sense to me at all. A cat should be looked upon as a companion not as something that can be booted out of the door when it suits. 

Im sure we have all seen cats locked out in appalling weather with nowhere to shelter poor things. 

Most cats I know absolutely thrive on human companionship given the choice.


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

Angeli said:


> Lastly why have a cat and want it or expect it to be out of your way most of the time, that does not make sense to me at all. A cat should be looked upon as a companion not as something that can be booted out of the door when it suits.


Do you assume this is true of all cat owners that allow their cats to go out?

I don't boot my cat out, ever. They come and go as they please, the fact is, both my cats love being outside, one I barely see in the house, as he's made several cat friends (I'm sure they all go to each others houses ) I often see them playing in our garden, and I'll go and play with them in the garden.. the fact of the matter is, my littlest cat never knew "indoors" until we brought him home, as he was born in a barn on a farm.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Angeli said:


> I can only speak for pedigree cats on this one and for them its a definite NO NO!
> 
> Most breeders stipulate in their contracts that the cat must be either indoor only or allowed out into a cat safe back garden/run and if deliberately breached would be good enough reason for me to reclaim the cat/kitten.
> 
> ...


Yeh I agree, I have pedigrees so they would never be outside anyway.. But as soon as a cat starts demanding attention people just put them outside! Alfie can get really hypa at times but I just give him loads of attention and he's happy.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

mattyh said:


> Do you assume this is true of all cat owners that allow their cats to go out?


No I dont think that at all.
I presume your cats are not pedigree though.
As I stated I can only speak for them and believe me they are definitely NOT STREETWISE.

In the case of your cats if that is what they are used to then it would be difficult to change them at this stage, we all know how hard it is to force a cat to do something that it doesn't want to do 

Unfortunately though there are people that do boot their cat out of the door regardless. I have had personal experience of people that have done this, one of my neighbours a few years ago owned a rather beautiful but feisty moggy and two labradors. They liked to go caravanning most weekends and took the dogs with them. The poor cat on the other hand was expected to do whatever while they were away and as you can guess we took her in on those days.

It is people like this that I am getting at.


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

Thats ok then 

I wouldn't let a pedigree out, simply for the fear of them getting stolen, but I wouldn't get a pedigree cat anyway, I'm more for rescuing a cat that needs a home, but thats a personal choice


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*I know someone who got 2 kittens, intending them to be indoor cats. But then decided when they were a few months old decided that her house was too small and they ran around too much, so said i'm gonna start letting them out they do my head in racing about. I said but they'll get killed(she lives on a very busy main road) She said oh, they'll be fine, I can't stand the mess and the smell from the litter tray!!!! Well my answer to that.....DON'T GET A CAT!!!*


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Good on you 

I applaud anyone that rescues a cat, in fact although I am a registered breeder of pedigree cats whose passion is to exhibit them, I would always recommend anyone looking for a cat or kitten to rescue instead of buying one....pedigree or moggy...preferably one of each to balance 

All reputable breeders that I know are involved in rescue work.


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

I didn't know you could rescue pedigrees!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Yea, there's quite a few specialist rescue places for them. We have one for the Norwegian Forest cats. Most of the cats clubs(FIFe) have a welfare officer too*


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

Oh noes... I think more cats might be in the offing then 

Why do people give them up for adoption, I thought it was standard practice for the breeders to offer a lifetime return policy (for want of a better phrase), which would stop the process of pedigree cats needing new homes?


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *I know someone who got 2 kittens, intending them to be indoor cats. But then decided when they were a few months old decided that her house was too small and they ran around too much, so said i'm gonna start letting them out they do my head in racing about. I said but they'll get killed(she lives on a very busy main road) She said oh, they'll be fine, I can't stand the mess and the smell from the litter tray!!!! Well my answer to that.....DON'T GET A CAT!!!*


Now that's another thing I hate Wendy  The amount of people who get cats and then moan at having to clean out a litter tray? Why the flippin' heck get a cat in the first place!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Haha, don't get me started. I'll get banned, lol.Most of us do have a returning policy. Sadly there are people out there that will stick them in rescue and not tell us!!
Or they are let out to wander, get lost, run over ect and the owners don't want to pay the vets bills. 
There are of course genuine reasons for rehoming, marriage break up, illness, cats sold that are sick or have problems and breeder not wanting to know ect.*


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> Now that's another thing I hate Wendy The amount of people who get cats and then moan at having to clean out a litter tray? Why the flippin' heck get a cat in the first place!


*I know it amazes me, do they expect the cat to clean it themselves*


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

mattyh said:


> Oh noes... I think more cats might be in the offing then
> 
> Why do people give them up for adoption, I thought it was standard practice for the breeders to offer a lifetime return policy (for want of a better phrase), which would stop the process of pedigree cats needing new homes?


We home our kittens with a clause which states the MUST be returned to us if the new family can't keep them, no matter how old the cat is. As breeders, they are our responsibility for life, not just for the 14 weeks we raised them. Unfortunately, no matter how hard you vett kitten families, once in a blue moon, the wrong person ends up with a kitten  There is also the other aspect where some breeders don't seem to mind who they sell a kitten to and will happily let babies go to the first person who walks in off the street with cash! I also know of some breeders who were told of cats of their breeding that ended up in rescue and they didn't want to know  Sometimes the fault likes with kitten families, sometimes with the breeders and it is always the cats who suffer


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Its an unfortunate fact that many pedigrees end up in rescue centres too.

A good breeder will always welcome a returning cat or kitten or at the very least participate in rehoming.

Sorry but most of the rehoming excuses these days are a bit feeble. Why do you have to give a cat up on a break up with partner/husband/wife/pregnancy etc?

I know difficult times, having been through times of illness and death with my husband having had Motor Neurone disease four years ago and the constant nursing that involved. They used to make themselves cumfy on him on the bed LOL much to the dismay of the nursing staff but my husband would not have had it any other way, bless him. My cats were there for me then as they are now.
Last year another crisis, my mother had a major stroke but all of my cats are still here with me.

In fact I would say that they are the reason that I pulled through those bad times.


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Angeli said:


> Sorry but most of the rehoming excuses these days are a bit feeble. Why do you have to give a cat up on a break up with partner/husband/wife etc?


Again, I totally agree. Some of the rehoming excuses I have heard of are beyond belief!


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Breeders will also look for people to adopt their adult cats, who, for whatever reason, have become suitable for adoption. Don't get me wrong - I think this is an admirable practice and one I support. The breeder needs new stock; the adult hasn't worked out in the way the breeder thought.

These cats need re-homing too and a loving home. I adopted two - one I had to sign a clause for return, the other the breeder really wasn't interested in returning.

I can understand that too. 

The cat clubs make it clear that they will not re-home breeders' ex-mating cats. Thus the adoptees. And if the breeder is good s/he will know what home would suit their cat.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

I have never rehomed any of my cats to date for any reason and it would take a helluva reason for me to do so.
Why should anyone rehome cats that have served them well in the past just because they have become unproductive.
Hopefully they are speying/neutering all cats before rehoming to stop them from being used by wannabe unscrupulous 
breeders although in some cases I have seen it mentioned that it would be up to the new owners to carry this out???

Lets be honest here there are some breeders out there that will pass their cats on for next to no reason whatsoever 

This is one reason why I wont sell a cat for breeding to another breeder, I much prefer my kittens to have the chance of a lifelong home if possible. I might though to someone that I knew extremely well through showing and I was happy with their breeding programme but I would still stipulate that I would want the cat returned to me if it didn't work out.

At the end of the day all that matters to me is the continued quality of life the kitten is entitled to once he leaves my home.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Betula is an ex-breeding queen, i went to see kittens at a breeders and just fell in love with her, i went into her enclosure and she jumped straight on my lap i thought she deserved a loving home and im so glad i adopted her shes so special  There is a bengal rescue too.

I also have just got a kitten and i love seeing them bomb round together  litter trays are hardly hard work, some people amaze me


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## Blue Paw Senior (May 27, 2008)

What a fascinating thread this is  All three of my cats are indoor cats and we do not and cannot have a cat run for them, due to the shape of the garden and other factors. For that reason too, the garden cannot be cat proofed, either. They certainly don't sleep all day (or anything like 23 hours) and in fact have been having a mad chase round the house for the past two hours  Sometimes, I wish they did sleep for 23 hours! (No, not really! ) They have a huge cat tower and the chases involve jumping onto different bits of furniture, both high and low (and on us, as well - apparently you get more points if we are landed on! ) They also have loads of toys and plenty of stimulation and as they have never known any different, I don't think they are missing out at all. We moved here 18 months ago, with two of our existing cats, who had never had access to the outside at our other house either. Although we live now in a very quiet cul-de-sac and the house itself is well away from the road, I would not be happy with them going out, even here, because I don't want them becoming a nuisance to my neighbours.

And it is a misconception that all cats who have had access to outside will go "stir carazy" if confined to indoors. Some might of course, but our first siamese from a kitten had access to the outside, via a catflap, although it was closed at night and he was kept in. At that time, we had a huge, enclosed (but not cat proofed) back garden, backing onto fields and he was as happy as larry out there and rarely went out to the front of the house. When he was 12, we moved to a much smaller property, which although it was in a cul-de-sac, was in quite a busy one. The garden was tiny, too, so we decided that he would become a house cat from then on, because we were afraid for his safety there. It really didn't faze him at all and he lived happily as an indoor cat from then until he died at 18 1/2. We made sure that he had plenty of toys and attention and I am convinced that it did him no harm at all and probably prolonged his life.


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Very good post Caryll  although, as an aside mate, don't think you're giving the monsters back to me 'cause I don't want 'em


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## Blue Paw Senior (May 27, 2008)

That's good, because you don't stand a hope in h*ll of getting 'em! LOL!


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

Mate, in all seriousness, if every one of my kitten families was as perfect as your family, I would be the happiest breeder in the world


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## holliegavin (Jun 5, 2008)

I dont have cats myself but my sister and friend both have indoor cats.

My sister's cat wasn't purposely kept inside, he just did not show any interest in going outside. My sister used to have to walk him around outside as if not he would stay in. Now he's older and is very contented staying inside.

My friend has two Oriental Lilacs and they both live inside. They are spoilt little kitties and have several areas of the house which are specifically for them, and loads of activities; climbing frames, special fancy scratch posts, hidey-holes.. all sorts. She also keeps them active, phsycially and mentally, but hiding their food and treats around so they have to "hunt" it out.

I think they need something to keep them stimulated in order to keep them happy inside!


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## Schimmel (May 17, 2008)

You've hit the nail on the head Hollie. And with breeds like the Ori's, they also thrive on human and feline companionship but yes, all indoor cats must be kept stimulated both mentally and physically. The treat balls are great  (so are games of paper football)


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

mine are indoor cats and we have a cat run. they are never bored, they've loads of toys we're always playing


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## catzndogz (Mar 12, 2008)

Janee said:


> Breeders will also look for people to adopt their adult cats, who, for whatever reason, have become suitable for adoption. Don't get me wrong - I think this is an admirable practice and one I support. The breeder needs new stock; the adult hasn't worked out in the way the breeder thought.
> 
> These cats need re-homing too and a loving home. I adopted two - one I had to sign a clause for return, the other the breeder really wasn't interested in returning.
> 
> ...


both my cats are ex-breeders which we adopted we had to sign a clause for return also.
they are both indoor cats; as is the kitten we found in a box 2 weeks ago which had been dumped & kids throwing stones at.
the road which we live on is like living on in the fast lane of M1.

we used to live in a house with a big garden & my old cats all lived outside however one day my ginger tom went missing & 4 days later we found him. it looked like he'd been hit on the head by what we never knew. he was he a bad where the bang to head left him blinded & damaged front legs. we had to have him put to sleep.
so i know i couldn't go through that again. the cats have the total run of the house which is on 3 floors, in each room theres scathing posts, toys to play with. if we lived in the country i think i would let them out.
this has been a really intresting thread to read


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

sam&meg said:


> both my cats are ex-breeders which we adopted we had to sign a clause for return also.
> they are both indoor cats; as is the kitten we found in a box 2 weeks ago which had been dumped & kids throwing stones at.
> the road which we live on is like living on in the fast lane of M1.
> 
> ...


Thats awfull, what a shame.

I know what you mean though, you hear of so many horrible things that happen, I could never let my cats outside to roam, pedigrees or moggies


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> My hubby made kays run,if you contact a similar fabrication company they will make to your exact requirments,height and widththe good things about a steel made run is no maintenance(unlike wood) lasts for ever(unlike wood) unbreakable,and very strong


Thanks that's really lovely of you, I will try and find a similar fabrication company in Leeds.

I really have searched the internet and I have seen quite a lot of cat runs some have been too big all linked with tunnels, what Kay has is perfect. Even hubby is coming round to the idea. He thought a cat run would look unsightly until I showed him Kay's.

Sue


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Angeli said:


> I have never rehomed any of my cats to date for any reason and it would take a helluva reason for me to do so.
> Why should anyone rehome cats that have served them well in the past just because they have become unproductive.
> Hopefully they are speying/neutering all cats before rehoming to stop them from being used by wannabe unscrupulous
> breeders although in some cases I have seen it mentioned that it would be up to the new owners to carry this out???
> ...


Ummm. I think many breeders probably start out as being idealistic, but, at the end of the day, aren't they breeding to produce the perfect cat for the breed? Why show your cats, if you aren't setting out to achieve this?

This is from a breeder's site that I think explains why quite succinctly - over-stretching of resource (not money) and over-crowding and wanting to do the best for the cat.

"They are my only hobby & my "salary" is the love and affection they give me.
I don't hold with over breeding or over crowding
To use a girl as a "Kitten Mill" is not an option here.
Equally to have so many that my resources are stretched isn't fair on them.

So to be able to give each cat quality attention and love means making sacrifices.
I only have their best interests at heart and believe me it isn't easy to let them go. 
They are part of the family but I want them to have a full and contented life.
I neuter and re-home them to people who I feel will love and care for them as much as I do.
I endeavour to match them to homes which "fit" their individual personalities.

There is an adoption fee which covers their neutering and health check before they leave and the conditions of Adoption are as follows
You will love them to bits.
You will spoil them rotten.
&
You will pander to their every whim. "


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Janee said:


> Ummm. I think many breeders probably start out as being idealistic, but, at the end of the day, aren't they breeding to produce the perfect cat for the breed? Why show your cats, if you aren't setting out to achieve this?
> 
> This is from a breeder's site that I think explains why quite succinctly - over-stretching of resource (not money) and over-crowding and wanting to do the best for the cat.
> 
> ...


Im not totally against rehoming providing it is done for the right reasons of course AND I am a breeder who breeds for the purpose of improving my chosen breed AND though quite new to showing have had a little success so far.

Im certainly not idealistic. 

There are those breeders out there that have had more new cats passing through their cattery than you have fingers and toes. Reasons??? probably a female might just not match up to their expectations and only had 1 kitten in her first litter OR was taken to a show and didn't win everything etc.

These people become well known for this in the cat world and gain themselves a reputation.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Interesting stuff so far! Must admit I can completely understand the reasons for keeping cats in but I think it is great those that build runs so that puss can still get outside for fresh air. I am really lucky where I live and my cats don't even cross the road as they are too busy patrolling the steadings and field.


I take my Alfie outside with his little harness on for fresh air, but he prefers to be carried!


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Angeli said:


> Im not totally against rehoming providing it is done for the right reasons of course AND I am a breeder who breeds for the purpose of improving my chosen breed AND though quite new to showing have had a little success so far.
> 
> Im certainly not idealistic.
> 
> ...


I don't really want to argue with you as what you say is about 'bad' breeders is probaly true for a small percentage. But there are other reasons:

Queen kills kittens
Cat is not happy being shown
Breeder feels queen/stud has done their bit i.e. queen = 9 years old???
Health problem - breeder puts up for adoption but breeder pays for that particular health problem (and yes I was offered an adoptee on these conditions)


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## bindiboo (Apr 21, 2008)

We have been taking Cookie out gradually since we have got her, just for a bit of fresh air. She used to be scared and shake. Gradually we let her have a little walk on the grass. Yesterday, we let her out and she loved it. Our garden is well enclosed and secure. She is out there now. She comes in for a snooze and then goes back out to play amost the shrubs tring to catch flies!!............nope here she comes back for a look see..................................


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

aww I so wish I had an enclosed garden! My 2 arn't really bothered about being outside, although it would be nice to have some sort of that I could put them out in so they could get some fresh air!


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## holly3011 (Jun 16, 2008)

My mog has spent the first 9 months of his life after jabs etc being allowed outside until last week. 

This is because I had a mog kitten (Cleo) who i bought 2 weeks after him who wasn't even allowed outside as she had not had her jabs yet, she managed to get outside by destroying the tumble dryer tube and escaping thru the vent. Next morning she was found by my fiancé barely alive with what looked like injuries sustained from a fox. We took he rto the vet hospital but she began to have fits and so we had to let her go.

Then my dad bought me a persian cross about a month after cleo died. He was allowed outside and brought in at night with my mog Archie. 4 weeks ago he went missing and i have had 2 reports of a cat matching his description being dead on the side of the road a few streets away. trying to get confirmation from the council that this was my cat, although i am almost certain as my cat has never been missing for 1 day let alone 4 weeks.

I am keeping my mog and the new kitten i will have next week in from now on cos i just cannot face the devastation of another one dying. Archie doesn't like it very much at the moment but is beginning to get used to the idea. He gets lots of fuss, always has someone to play with and doesn't seem to be effected other than an occasional 5 minutes of noise from him saying that he wants to go out. I'm sure this will stop in time, especially when he gets his new little brother.


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## draculita (Jun 15, 2008)

I have a large cat run for my cats with edible plants and climbing posts for them. Last year a fox managed to pull the cat run apart and I lost one of my cats for 2 weeks. I found him living 2 doors away in someones green-house, half starved and going bald. I think some cats are more streetwise and robust than others. Mine on the other hand couldn't even find his home 200ft away.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*OMG!!! Glad you managed to get him back. That must of been awful*


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

yeh, and at least the horrible fox didnt get your baby! We lost 2 moggies in the past because of fox's


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Oh no Bee!!*


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

A colleague of mine told me today that her moggy who goes out went across the canal at the back of her house whilst it was frozen with ice in winter time. Come the morning the canal had defrosted and the cat did not know how to get back. Because she was calling it, the cat plunged into the canal and doing panicky doggy style swimming luckily made it back across to the house side. I told her she was very lucky, it doesnt dare thinking about what could have happened to that cat in the canal  I am so glad I do not have these worries now with my SAFE and happy indoor cats


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Wow, yea, thats for sure Chrissy. People just don't know where their cats go or what they get up to.*


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Yeh definately.. All my cats from now on are going to be house cats! Well no choice with Raggies but even Moggies will be indoors - too many dangers!


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## Maxwell (Feb 19, 2008)

Ive always had moggies and they have had full access to the outside world..
they have all been fine, luckily
however..
since having 'pedigree' cats, I keep them indoors or in their 'run' in the garden if its a nice day..
its 25 ft long, has a shed to sleep in attached, decking on the floor and decking planks as shelves to run along etc..they love to play & watch the birds.. its lovely to see them playing safely xx
Oh, as you will notice.. its got chair in there too for sad old me, I sit in there with them while I have a brew & watch them play...


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## sophoscar (Apr 25, 2008)

Maxwell said:


> Ive always had moggies and they have had full access to the outside world..
> they have all been fine, luckily
> however..
> since having 'pedigree' cats, I keep them indoors or in their 'run' in the garden if its a nice day..
> ...


I want that in my back garden for my cat!! shame i can't though


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

I wish I had a garden!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> I wish I had a garden!


*Haha, me too Bee, we've only got a back yard, though I must say it's been easier to cat proof

Fab run Maxwell, I love it, your cats are very lucky*


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## Maxwell (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks guys
we just built to 'brown' bit of run origionally , but then we decided it was pathetic so I forced matt against his will to build a decent one
I bought him loads of galaxy as a thank you......ahhh the powers of chocolate


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> ahhh the powers of chocolate


*Hahahaha*


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## Emstarz (May 20, 2008)

That run is fab - my poor cats are stuck inside at the moment and I've had to lock all windows to stop the kids letting them out. As soon as it's possible I'm going to get hubby to build something like that


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## IBDIZ.COM (Jun 19, 2008)

Reason for not letting him out at night is because my first cat got ran over and was found next to a speed camare, then i had two more cats. 1st went out at night and was found dead in a garden and then the other he went out at night and never came back. After all I don't let my cat to go outside...

support @ ibtemplates.com
support @ IBDIZ.COM


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

I have been very fortunate ... never lost a cat to a rta or other outside danger before but then, mine do not go out roaming. The neuters only go out supervised with me being present, in my own garden, and they come in again when I return indoors. The queens stay in at all times ... except when they go to the vet or go out on honeymoon.


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## haylz22 (May 30, 2008)

my cats go outside, when i got them as kittens we were in the process of moving so didnt want to let them out before we moved, once we moved after we had all settled in i let them out, they love being outdoors but also love coming in to have a cuddle.

one of my cats fractured his pelvis last march and he had to have cage rest for 6 weeks it was horrible but he is ok now, he tends to just go in our garden and next doors , where as the other one goes for hours. The one that fractured his pelvis was hit by a car but the vet said it is more like he was run over rather than hit, realised that he had been laying under wooden boards the council had out down as they had removed the kerb for a drop down


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## cavy_gal (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't own cats and never have but most cats where I live have lived here for 15 yrs onwards with no problem with safety as we're a good few roads away from a busy main road. Although, my friend who lives on a very quiet road has lost TWO kittens outside her house from mad drivers taking advantage of our country roads, using them as race tracks...

My nan's partner has Siamese, very well bred, Pedigree show quality cats who have never gone outside and it hasn't done any of them any harm from being indoors.

If I had cats, I'd want them to know they could be in or go outside if they wished. Cats are very indipendant animals and can fend for themselves but I know from having friends lose cats on roads (and from people actually stealing them!) that you need to have the right environment for them and possibly use some sort of repellant on your fencing to stop them straying further than your garden? Don't know but personally mixed feelings on that one.


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