# Vet thinks Joshua may have a tumour



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I am absolutely devastated today. I was so sure it was his legs playing him up; he hasn't been right all day. Then I found that his gums and tongue were really pale, so took him to the vet. He collapsed going up the steps and had to be carried in by four people.

The vet phoned me the this evening to say that he is extremely anaemic, which could be a sign of internal bleeding, which could well be coming from a tumour.

He was fine yesterday, but has been sick a lot over the past few weeks. I told one of the young vets a while ago and she just gave him stuff to line his stomach, which I didn't use because I felt that was treating the symptoms, not finding out why.

He gets the rest of the blood tests back tomorrow and he will probably be going to the vets hospital in Cambridge for more tests.

He was doing so well with his arthritis, now this. I can't stop crying over him.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

awwwwwwwwwww so sorry to hear this! Poor little guy! I hope they sort him out really quick and get him the treatment he needs if it is a tumour! Let's hope it's benign and will be easily removed if it is one 

Poor little thing, at least he has someone who loves him very much looking out for him!

Sending hugs to the both of you!!!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Am so sorry to hear this 

I really hope the test results are good news, poor Josh


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Oh hun I really dont know what to say, Im sending strong healing thoughts to Joshua and a huge ((((hug))))) to you, I hope its good news when he goes to Cambridge xx


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## natty01 (Sep 4, 2011)

really sorry , i hope there is something they can do for him.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

So sorry to hear he is poorly.

Can I just say tho, my friends Gordon Setter had the exact same symptoms a couple of weeks ago and he had a tumour on his spleen, they took the spleen out and it hadnt spread.

So theres hope yet

Best of luck to you and your boy


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Thank you all so much. I was in tears this morning because he didn't seem able to walk much and he had been doing so well, then this happens. I don't know what to do now; all I can do is wait for the test results.

He has never been a healthy dog, ever since we had him at eight weeks, it has been one thing after another.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Oh goodness, I don't know what to say. Keeping everything crossed for you and your boy xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Kinjilabs said:


> So sorry to hear he is poorly.
> 
> Can I just say tho, my friends Gordon Setter had the exact same symptoms a couple of weeks ago and he had a tumour on his spleen, they took the spleen out and it hadnt spread.
> 
> ...


Thankyou. You have given me hope at least.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Thankyou. You have given me hope at least.


Your most welcome.

I totally know how you are feeling now, keep thinking positive, my friend feared the worst and all turned out fine

Will be thinking of you.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Healing vibes for Joshua and huge hugs for you Newfiesmum. Good luck with the forthcoming tests.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear this, can fully understand why your so upset, I hope they can get to the bottom of the problem.


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

Oh no, so sorry 2 hear this, ((((hugs 2 u both)))) I really hope it's a positive outcome 4 Joshua xx


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## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

Fingers and paws crossed for joshua 

((hugs)) to you :crying:


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

My friend's flat-coated retriever has been having trouble walking and the Vet found a tumour at the top of her leg, which was affecting all the nerve endings in her leg. The tumour is benign, though, so they are removing it..... there is hope! Lots of get well wishes for Joshua! Claire x


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm really really sorry 
My Nelson was never a healthy dog, but he was the greatest dog in the whole world. He didn't make it to 9 years old, but he got through a few illnesses that noone even thought he would - including interveertebral disc disease, intestinal blockage, and an infection that had spread to his brain. 

I guess the point I'm trying to make, is that I won't sit here and tell you Joshua is Mr. Healthy, but maybe, like my Nelson, he will surprise everyone and make it through many of the unfair illnesses life throws at him.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm so sorry, poor Joshua's been through so much
Sending healing vibes xx


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Really sorry to read this. Hope it isn't anything seriousxx


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Oh no thinking of you.. Where do they thinkthe tumour is?

My boy has got a brain tumour and we thought that was it as he went downhill so quickly.. But he was referred to Cambridge vet school and although they cannot cure him he has undergone treatment and is doing well and they are brilliant there he will be in excellent hands if he has to go.. 

They used to let me sit in with tek and hold him when he was waking up from anaesthetic. 

Sometimes it's worse not knowing one you get the tests back can focus on making your boy well again. X


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## ameliajane (Mar 26, 2011)

So sorry. It's so unfair when they just seem to get one thing after another. Thinking of you and Joshua and hope you have some positive news soon. xx


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear, fingers and paws crossed for you and Joshua. 

*hugs* xx


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

So sorry to Joshua is unwell.....keeping everything crossed for you both.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Oh no poor boy  everything crossed here for some better news later xxx


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

So sorry to hear this, you must be worried sick :crying: and so sorry to hear that Joshua has been through the mill.
Keeping fingers and paws crossed for some good news later, keep us posted and try to keep positive for your little (or not so little) man xx


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

:crying: Any News ??

Sending Love xx


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Thank you all so much. I was in tears this morning because he didn't seem able to walk much and he had been doing so well, then this happens. I don't know what to do now; all I can do is wait for the test results.
> 
> He has never been a healthy dog, ever since we had him at eight weeks, it has been one thing after another.


There is always hope until they tell you otherwise - so please please keep your chin up because Joshua will sense your dismay. He is probably feeling a little weak and rest is probably one of the things he needs just now - lets pray the results are good.

Thinking and praying for Joshua and big big hugs to you. He's in the best place just now.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Sorry to hear Joshua is unwell.


Hope you get some better news today.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

It's good news! He has a severe blood infection which can be treated with antibiotics, which I am just going to get. He is still worried about him, but that is what the blood test has shown though God knows where it came from.

I was so sure I was going to lose him that I have been psyching myself up and balling my eyes out. Let's hope these drugs work quickly.

Thankyou all so much for all your good wishes.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

PHEW what a relief  Hope the meds fix him quickly xxx


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Ahh what a relief  get well soon Joshua x

I seemed to have spent a lot of time recently crying over sad threads about poorly dogs, so glad this hasn't turned into another one


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Great news  Fingers crossed the meds kick in quickly xx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I am so pleased for you and Joshua that it wasnt what he thought. Wishing Joshua a speedy recovery and a quick response to the antibiotics.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

What a relief!


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## LyndaDanny (Jan 23, 2011)

Hope Joshua is soon feeling better. Hugs to you both from me and the ratboys x


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

I haven't been around today and this is the first thread I checked when I came on. I'm so pleased for you and Joshua. Great news. You can stop crying now and give Joshua a great big hug . Hope he feels better soon.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DirtyGertie said:


> I haven't been around today and this is the first thread I checked when I came on. I'm so pleased for you and Joshua. Great news. You can stop crying now and give Joshua a great big hug . Hope he feels better soon.


Thanks. I don't think I will ever stop crying over Joshua, to be honest. That dog has given me more anxiety than all three kids put together! First we nearly lost him to heatstroke when he was only 10 weeks old, then he was always being sick. He was diagnosed with arthritis in his wrists at 19 months, then it spread to his elbows. He is only three and is never going to run about like a normal three year old dog.

He is no better today, though I have just given him an antibiotic. The vet gave him a dose by injection yesterday, then he came in specially today to get the blood test results and dish out the tablets. He is very good.

I will keep you updated.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

What a relief for you Really hope he starts to feel better soon. xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I spoke to the vet again this evening. He wants me to phone him on his mobile every day to tell him how Joshua is getting on, doesn't want to stress him out by taking him to the surgery. I asked him what type of infection and he said it was blood poisoning, so we are not out of the woods yet.

He hasn't cut himself anywhere so all I can think is that he has swallowed something sharp and cut himself inside. If that is the case, then he may still need surgery for internal bleeding, but we are hoping the strong antibiotics will clear it up.

He is really worried about him which doesn't help the way I feel, but at least I know he will do his best.

He hasn't eaten anything, but he did have a piece of my leftover chicken this evening so hasn't completely lost his appetite.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Everything crossed that he starts to feel better soon. Think thats your cue to get some more chickens and start cooking them mum.


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## BeagleOesx (Oct 9, 2009)

Just caught up with this thread, so sorry Joshua is not well and I hope that he improves now he's on the meds. Such a worrying time for you.

Big Hugs to Joshua xx


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

OMG i am sorry, havent been on much and somehow missed this thread. I Have to admit i was dreading reading on.. i was all :crying: then all :w00t: and now im just hoping and praying that he pulls through. 
Youve been through so much together i have everything crossed for a speedy recovery  xxx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

If only these medical people would say what they mean in the first place, it would save a lot of hassle. Yesterday he just told me he had a massive infection, which I assumed was a blood infection because of the pale gums and anaemia, then when I spoke to him tonight and asked him what sort of infection, he said it was septacaemia (which I've probably spelled wrong). So I was thinking, oh, its only an infection, then find out it is blood poisoning.

He is lying on the kitchen floor now crying. I put a biscuit down to see if he could get up, and he can't - too weak. I can't lift him on my own, my son is asleep and my grandson is out on the razzle somewhere.

There's a lot to be said for a little dog, after all.

I will just have to wait and see how he is tomorrow I suppose.

I do appreciate everybody good wishes. It means a lot.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Just sending you strength and healing vibes for Joshua. I hope you can both get some rest tonight.


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

Sorry I just spotted this threat now.
Feel so sorry for Joshua and for you.
When I read about his medical history I couldn't believe that he is only 3!
Poor dog! Have hope that he will feel better.
Usually after third dose you should see improvement or later especially when dogs body it to week to fight. 
Give him big hug from me, and another hug give yourself as well from me.


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## JoJo74 (May 29, 2011)

Poor Joshua.

I hope the meds kick in soon, you must be so worried.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Andromeda said:


> Sorry I just spotted this threat now.
> Feel so sorry for Joshua and for you.
> When I read about his medical history I couldn't believe that he is only 3!
> Poor dog! Have hope that he will feel better.
> ...


A lot of my sadness comes from the fact that he is only three. I could cope quite well if he was an old dog, and I could tell myself that he has had a great life, but the fact is that he hasn't. It seems he is ill much more than well, which is tragic in one so young. Since he has been having his hydrotherapy he has been really well. Only last week he was trying to steal my dinner off the worktop and generally behaving like a proper dog for the first time in his life, then this happens.

All I can be thankful for now is that I have a vet who really cares about him and seems to know what he is doing.

PS. I can also be thankful that Ferdie is as fit as the proverbial fiddle! Apart from vaccines and toe nail clippings, he has been to the vet precisely once in his five years and that was when he twisted his front leg on a walk. I hope I am not tempting fate by saying that!


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

Joshua has got good life, person who loves him and takes care of him.
In his life he had more than few good moments. And that counts. Not everybody is healthy and rich. We should be grateful for what we have. He is because you are giving him good life. 
And you will feel exactly the same if he was 10. This is only excuse. I had to pts my 18yo dog, and even if I knew that she could live only a year longer I still feel guilty. And if I could have that year...


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> If only these medical people would say what they mean in the first place, it would save a lot of hassle. Yesterday he just told me he had a massive infection, which I assumed was a blood infection because of the pale gums and anaemia, then when I spoke to him tonight and asked him what sort of infection, he said it was septacaemia (which I've probably spelled wrong). So I was thinking, oh, its only an infection, then find out it is blood poisoning.
> 
> He is lying on the kitchen floor now crying. I put a biscuit down to see if he could get up, and he can't - too weak. I can't lift him on my own, my son is asleep and my grandson is out on the razzle somewhere.
> 
> ...


i think with how the poor little guy is feeling (since we would feel shocking and not want to be moved) it might be wise to pop a towel under his back end (in case he's too weak to get up for a wee) and a pillow under his head, make sure he has water right next to his head so he can just lift and drink. . . (and offer him the water by holding the bowl for him to make it easier to make sure he is drinking plenty) and just keep offering little bits of food and then leave him to rest for the rest of the night. . . poor little guy! I'm sure once the antibiotics kick in he'll be okay and feeling a lot better 
it sounds like he's been through a lot already in his life so it's good that he such a wonderful person loving him through it all!
I'm sure he knows you're helping him by the way you're treating him and I'm sure he knows you're working on getting him better 

Poor little thing! Sending healing vibes

If dogs don't have their own guardian angels I'm sure yours will watch over him in the night for you 

here's hoping he gets better soon. . .if he really does seem in pain though I'm sure an on call vet could come and give him a long lasting pain relief injection to help settle him over night?

is there anything he especially likes that you could give him to eat that might tempt him? just to give him a little bit of energy. . .if not the main thing is to make sure he's hydrated

the vet probably didn't want to say blood poisoning to try and avoid making you panic as much

Give him a cuddle from me!


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Hope he is better soon. It is good to hear that you have a good vet who is caring for him. Hugs to you and Joshua.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Your poor baby, life can be so bloody unfair and as you say he's just a youngster. 

it's so upsetting to see them so poorly my heart goes out to you as you've been going through so much with him lately. Lots of hugs and get well wishes from here plus a little prayer tonight for strength for both of you. xxx

Just a thought, your son or grandson could help him to his feet with a large towel under his belly used like a sling, they could take a good deal of his weight when he toilets too til he's a bit stronger.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

wow, poor boy. Ive got everything crossed for him, really hoping he gets through it ok...
I think blood infection/blood poisoning/septacaemia are all the same thing. i do know how serious they can be though. He must be exhausted if he is that anaemic as well.:crying:


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Poor boy so much and so young hope he recovers soon


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

Just hoping he pulls through here...thinking of you


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Just seen this thread. I'm really sorry and hope Joshua can be treated.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> i think with how the poor little guy is feeling (since we would feel shocking and not want to be moved) it might be wise to pop a towel under his back end (in case he's too weak to get up for a wee) and a pillow under his head, make sure he has water right next to his head so he can just lift and drink. . . (and offer him the water by holding the bowl for him to make it easier to make sure he is drinking plenty) and just keep offering little bits of food and then leave him to rest for the rest of the night. . . poor little guy! I'm sure once the antibiotics kick in he'll be okay and feeling a lot better
> it sounds like he's been through a lot already in his life so it's good that he such a wonderful person loving him through it all!
> I'm sure he knows you're helping him by the way you're treating him and I'm sure he knows you're working on getting him better
> 
> ...


That is what I hate though. It gives you false hope and they all do it, vets, doctors, the lot, they won't come out and say what they mean so you know where you are. It was the same when my mother died. The doctor phoned me and went rambling on about how her warden had found her unconscious etc etc........I ended up saying "well, is she dead or isn't she?"

I don't know what he thought about that and I don't care much. I like to know where I stand from the start.

He is getting up for wees and things and I left his water bowl with him last night. This morning he did come to say hello to me, but not like he usually does, then he went outside and went back to sleep.

Thanks again for all your good wishes.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> If only these medical people would say what they mean in the first place, it would save a lot of hassle. Yesterday he just told me he had a massive infection, which I assumed was a blood infection because of the pale gums and anaemia, then when I spoke to him tonight and asked him what sort of infection, he said it was septacaemia (which I've probably spelled wrong). So I was thinking, oh, its only an infection, then find out it is blood poisoning.
> 
> He is lying on the kitchen floor now crying. I put a biscuit down to see if he could get up, and he can't - too weak. I can't lift him on my own, my son is asleep and my grandson is out on the razzle somewhere.
> 
> ...


I agree but remember a vet will only tell you what he thinks you are capable of taking in so ask questions even if you think they are stupid ones - he will then open up to you. Ask what organism has been found and how that organism will affect Joshuas internal organs and more importantly what outward signs of deterioration you should be mindful of.

Septicemia can be life threatening and the blood culture would have been performed to ascertain what organism is present.

It is obviously important that you keep Joshua hydrated by any means drinking, ice cubes, licking yoghurt etc - he will be listless and tired but more importantly I would watch out for any external signs like shaking, change in his mental status etc - if you are at all worried call the vet. If it were me I would put a pad under him or towel and not bother him with exerting himself to get up - he probably won't have the energy anyway.

It's a very difficult time for you and my heart goes out to you and I just pray that Joshua has the strength and willpower to fight this infection.

I will be praying for his safekeeping.

Sorry I see from your post that Joshua is getting up for wees - well that's a good sign and as you said he just went back to sleep which is probably what his body needs to fight the infection.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Thinking of You Joshua and Ferdie, and hoping today brings more improvements.


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

just sending hugs and love to you and Joshua, i hope he starts to improve more really soon


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

He did come to see me when I came back from the shops, so is taking a bit more interest. Apart from that he is just sleeping. Ferdie is lying on the floor with him, noses touching, since yesterday! He always knows when Joshua isn't well, bless him.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

I've only just read found and read through this thread and, like others, I read it with increasing trepidation. I am so pleased that there is some improvement with Joshua. It will take time but hopefully he is now on the mend.

Sending you and Joshua love, hugs and healing energy. I am so glad that he has such a lovely mum who cares about him so very much and a vet who is so concerned about him. Thinking of you. xxxxx


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## jayne5364 (Oct 21, 2009)

Tiny little steps but they're in the right direction. Hugs and healing to you all and I hope Joshua is feeling better soon xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

jayne5364 said:


> Tiny little steps but they're in the right direction. Hugs and healing to you all and I hope Joshua is feeling better soon xx


Thank you all so much. He has perked up a little today, was interested in my dinner, though not as much as usual! The vet says it will take weeks to get him back to normal, though, so I mustn't be despondent.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Glad he seems a bit more himself and shows more interest in food today, at least its more encouraging signs.


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## Beau-a-saurus (Jan 26, 2011)

I have only just seen this - so sorry for you and Joshua, sending healing thoughts and hugs and Beau sends a lick.


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## tiggerthumper (Apr 22, 2011)

Have only just seen this, get well soon Joshua. Joshua's had a tough time of it, but he's lucky too, he has you. I wish you and him all the best, for a speedy recovery xox


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

How's Joshua today?


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## Terr (Mar 2, 2010)

Sending my good wishes to Joshua and yourself. Hope he is feeling better today.


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

Hope Joshua is feeling a little better today. Claire x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I thought he had perked up a bit yesterday as he ate some chicken and kibble, but he threw up all over the floor last night. He doesn't seem any better, still just lying around.

I will phone the vet again later if he is no better.

Thanks for asking.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I thought he had perked up a bit yesterday as he ate some chicken and kibble, but he threw up all over the floor last night. He doesn't seem any better, still just lying around.
> 
> I will phone the vet again later if he is no better.
> 
> Thanks for asking.


poor little guy  I hope they get him sorted soon
I was actually thinking about you and Joshua today at work and hoping I'd come home to some good news  poor little sausage!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

He's seen the vet again this evening and his temperature is back to normal, his colour is better and he seems to be on the mend, thank God.

The mystery still remains as to how he got it; vet thinks he might have an ulcer so we will have to see how it goes.

He told me to give him lots of liver, so that's my son's dinner tomorrow gone in the dog!

I do thank you all for your concern. Last Friday I really thought I was going to lose him.

He won't be himself for a few weeks yet, but it is still good news.


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

Aww so glad he's on the up

Get well soon Joshua, there's lots of people (and dogs) on here routing for you to bounce back quickly


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Glad he is feeling better. Lots of pampering for him for the few weeks then?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

so sorry to hear Joshua has been poorly again, but really glad he seems to be improving...ive everything crossed he continues to xxx


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

finally some good news


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> He told me to give him lots of liver, so that's my son's dinner tomorrow gone in the dog!


I'm glad to hear good news 
Watch out with liver raw and cooked can gives a dog loosely stool or even diarrhoea especially if you didn't give liver to a dog before.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> Glad he is feeling better. Lots of pampering for him for the few weeks then?


He is already the most pampered pooch on the planet, I think!



Andromeda said:


> I'm glad to hear good news
> Watch out with liver raw and cooked can gives a dog loosely stool or even diarrhoea especially if you didn't give liver to a dog before.


He does have some when I'm cooking it but he said not to give it raw, but mince it up and mix it with his dried. He said liver, heart, red meat. I daresay he'll get some nice rump steak it makes him feel better!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I have only just spotted this thread as we've been away, so glad that the news isn't awful as I was expecting from the first page...your boy really puts you through it doesn't he . Hope that he is back to himself soon and that your son doesn't mind his dinner being stolen for the dog too much! x.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Thats MUCH better news. You must be so relieved


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I have only just spotted this thread as we've been away, so glad that the news isn't awful as I was expecting from the first page...your boy really puts you through it doesn't he . Hope that he is back to himself soon and that your son doesn't mind his dinner being stolen for the dog too much! x.


In his three years on this earth, that dog has given me more anxiety than all three kids put together! I really was upset when I first posted and the vet was talking about tumours; I really thought that was it, I was going to lose him. The worst of it is that he was doing so well after his hydrotherapy, actually doing naughty things like trying to steal my dinner! Then this happens, he must wonder what is going on. He won't be able to go for his hydro till he is completely recovered, so I expect we will have to start again with that as well.

Ian has had his liver stolen out of the frying pan by Ferdie before, so I doubt he will mind giving it up voluntarily to Joshua! I cannot fry liver without standing guard over it the whole time.


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

Great news that Joshua is on the up & up... 
Hopefully, this is it now, and he'll get back to doing the normal doggy stuff which you mentioned he'd started to.
hugs. xxx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Im so pleased and relieved for you all that there has been more progress and it looks like he is really on the mend now. Way to go Joshua, and looks like being poorly has got some benefitsat least as far as the food department goes and you wont even have to nick it like ferdie did,


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Im so pleased and relieved for you all that there has been more progress and it looks like he is really on the mend now. Way to go Joshua, and looks like being poorly has got some benefitsat least as far as the food department goes and you wont even have to nick it like ferdie did,


Yes, but how will I ever get him back on Chappie?!! He is going to be very weak for a while, so won't be able to go back to his swimming just yet, but at least I know the antibiotics are working.


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## Angie2011 (Feb 2, 2011)

So sorry hun! only just found this thread  my heart was in my mouth, sooooo glad your baby is picking up a little.....HUGE HUGS to you both xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Angie2011 said:


> So sorry hun! only just found this thread  my heart was in my mouth, sooooo glad your baby is picking up a little.....HUGE HUGS to you both xx


Thanks so much. By the way, that is an evil picture in your signature!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Yes, but how will I ever get him back on Chappie?!! He is going to be very weak for a while, so won't be able to go back to his swimming just yet, but at least I know the antibiotics are working.


More to the point if Joshua has it, what you going to do about Ferdie!!He might start a protest.Joshuas getting better as you say thats the main thing and he can soon go back to his swimming as soon as he is better and catch up again.


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## tiggerthumper (Apr 22, 2011)

Brilliant news, so glad to hear Joshua is on the mend!xox


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## Treacle44 (Aug 9, 2011)

Glad to hear Joshua is getting better, long may it continue


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## Angie2011 (Feb 2, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Thanks so much. By the way, that is an evil picture in your signature!


 dont tell my two that!! i told them they just fell off one day!!  x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

No idea how I missed this, glad to hear he's doing better though


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Hope you all don't mind me keeping an update, as I really want to keep a record and this seems the best way to do it.

I have taken his poo sample to the vet, as he said not to put him on the liver till he has one and I couldn't get one before. Didn't see him go and I have two dogs, so there you go! I have been and bought loads of liver and kidneys today and baked it in the oven. My son is jealous, he loves liver!

He has lost a lot of weight though and even my grandson said he had shrunk. He hasn't been eating except a few leftovers, so hopefully the liver will tempt him.

Certainly Ferdie will have to have it as well. He goes nuts at the very sight of liver!

Vet said he will be weak for a long time but we still do not know what caused it.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

How is he in himself? Any better at all?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Dogless said:


> How is he in himself? Any better at all?


Well he's taking a bit more interest in the world, but he is still very weak. He is sleeping most of the time and still cannot walk very far, like from one room to the other or outside and that is it.

He is certainly a lot better than he was, but certainly not himself. He has had all his antibiotics, so hopefully the infection is killed now. I mixed up the liver and kidney with his barking heads and he ate most of it, but couldn't finish it all - extra treat for Ferdie!

That is the first meal he has eaten for over a week, so that is good.

Thanks for asking.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Well he's taking a bit more interest in the world, but he is still very weak. He is sleeping most of the time and still cannot walk very far, like from one room to the other or outside and that is it.
> 
> He is certainly a lot better than he was, but certainly not himself. He has had all his antibiotics, so hopefully the infection is killed now. I mixed up the liver and kidney with his barking heads and he ate most of it, but couldn't finish it all - extra treat for Ferdie!
> 
> ...


You are welcome; it's funny but you get to feel like you know some of the PF dogs don't you and become genuinely concerned?

I'm glad he is showing some improvement. I hope that you are OK too, it is horrible having so much worry to deal with.xx.


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## ameliajane (Mar 26, 2011)

So glad you updated - another one who's been thinking about you and Joshua and hoping he's doing OK. Pleased to hear he's heading in the right direction. Fingers crossed for him.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Sounds like a long slow road- but hes getting there. Hope he carries on improving.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Sounds like Josh is slowly feeling better. Hope he enjoyed his Liver - What a stressful time for your whole family  Hope Joshua continues to pick up strength over the next few days / weeks. 

How is Ferdie? Are you able to get him out for walkies without him being distressed? 

nikki x x


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## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

I have only just found this thread and i just wanted to send you and josh big hugs from me and grizzy!!
x x x


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

Great to hear he is showing signs of improvement.

Tripe and biscuit will put weight on and I would start at about 4lb tripe a day and give a 14oz baked bean (or similar) can of plain mixer biscuit per meal, which is much lower in protein adding a good quality vitamin and mineral supplement.

*Satin Balls*
This recipe is one for putting weight on an animal quickly. It has also been reported that this recipe will help with some forms of hair loss, such as when your dog(s) blow their coat, to keep the coat healthy and shiny. This recipe is intended to be fed raw.

10lb mince 
1 jar wheatgerm 
1 lg box of oatmeal (uncooked)
1 1/4 Cup vegetable oil
10 eggs 
10 sm pkgs unflavoured gelatin 
1 1/4 Cup molasses
A pinch of salt
1 lg box cornflakes (2lb)
(You may also add a pinch of garlic powder to add flavour)

Mix all ingredients together well, much like a meatloaf. Put into separate freezer bags and freeze, thawing out as needed. It puts weight on in a very short time, not to mention the gloss in their coat. You can use it every day and it does not produce diarrhoea. It can be fed alone or with kibble.


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## Angie2011 (Feb 2, 2011)

Sooooooo! glad he is heading in the right direction hun! HUGS to all of you xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Milliepoochie said:


> Sounds like Josh is slowly feeling better. Hope he enjoyed his Liver - What a stressful time for your whole family  Hope Joshua continues to pick up strength over the next few days / weeks.
> 
> How is Ferdie? Are you able to get him out for walkies without him being distressed?
> 
> nikki x x


Ferdie hasn't been out as much as he should. He usually gets to the end of the road and sits down. Once he just refused to go out of the door. He lies on the floor licking Joshua's nose!



912142 said:


> Great to hear he is showing signs of improvement.
> 
> Tripe and biscuit will put weight on and I would start at about 4lb tripe a day and give a 14oz baked bean (or similar) can of plain mixer biscuit per meal, which is much lower in protein adding a good quality vitamin and mineral supplement.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the recipe! I may try that if he doesn't pick up.

One thing I have noticed which is a bit worrying is that he has been having trouble putting his back leg down when he first gets up. I think it is all the lying around making it a bit stiff and he is ok once he has been up a few minutes.

I don't think it is anything else, I sincerely hope not. With this dog, I am always expecting the worse!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Ferdie hasn't been out as much as he should. He usually gets to the end of the road and sits down. Once he just refused to go out of the door. He lies on the floor licking Joshua's nose!
> 
> Thanks for the recipe! I may try that if he doesn't pick up.
> 
> ...


Glad he has eaten quite well tonight, hope it continues and he soon puts the weight he has lost back on. It could well be the lying around, Kobi often does it when he has been asleep or lying for a long time, he usually favours one side
and thats usually the side he is stiff on when he first gets up, so hopefully thats all it is.

Hoping the improvement continues, Take care, Thinking of you all.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

At least he's had something to eat so that's a good sign and must be quite a relief for you too 

When Flynn was recovering from the last op he wasn't allowed to lie on his right side for a few weeks and his other leg would get stiff (dead leg I call it) on getting up so I would massage it as soon as he got up and get the circulation going which seemed to help. 

Hope Josh continues to eat well and puts some of that weight back on. Get well wishes and hugs from here. xxx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I am back again! Sorry to be a pain, but this is really for people who feed raw. I have been baking the liver in the oven. I tried microwaving it yesterday but he didn't seem so keen. He is eating it ok, but is throwing up every night and I don't know whether any is actually getting through if you know what I mean.

He eats about 5 to 6 in the evening and he has been sick during the night, so it is quite a few hours later.

Do you think it would be better if I left it raw? I know he would eat it, but I am scared of bacteria. That is no reflection on people who normally feed raw but it is not something I am used to.

I just want him to keep it down, whichever way it goes. 

Or do you think I should take him back to the vet? I am in a quandry with worrying about him.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Poor boy .

Kilo eats raw liver a few times per week and is fine...has Joshua had much liver before? Maybe he can't tolerate it? If he has and been fine then I think I would be back to the vet.


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

Just read through this thread, hope it all turns out to be ok, i'm sure it will!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Dogless said:


> Poor boy .
> 
> Kilo eats raw liver a few times per week and is fine...has Joshua had much liver before? Maybe he can't tolerate it? If he has and been fine then I think I would be back to the vet.


He's had it before, but only as a little treat, raw, whilst I've been cooking it for my son. I just don't know what to do for the best, really. He does love it, but I don't want him being sick every night.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I am back again! Sorry to be a pain, but this is really for people who feed raw. I have been baking the liver in the oven. I tried microwaving it yesterday but he didn't seem so keen. He is eating it ok, but is throwing up every night and I don't know whether any is actually getting through if you know what I mean.
> 
> He eats about 5 to 6 in the evening and he has been sick during the night, so it is quite a few hours later.
> 
> ...


Somewhere in the back of my mind I think I remember my Dad feeding one of his dogs liver because they went through a phase where they wouldnt eat, and it was about the only thing she did. A little was OK, but too often or two much used to really give her the squits,cant remember or not if she was sick with it too though. Maybe its because it is pretty rich, not sure if its quite "fatty" too. Maybe its too much for him at the moment, how about trying something like fish and rice or fish and potato and giving just a bit of liver mixed in, its a light resting diet and he will still be getting some liver. That or even chicken instead of fish. In humans Im sure I ready somewhere mash potato is good for queasiness, dont know about dogs though. Was just a thought.

If you worried it wouldnt hurt having a chat to the vet, to see if he thinks its a concern, and if he thinks its worth getting him checked out again.

Sorry to hear he is bing sick, its such a worry for you, hope he gets better soon.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

Is it possible you are giving him too much for his stomach to cope with at the moment?


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Don't know how much you give but i'd give no more than a palmful three or four times a week in case it is too rich for him or may give him diarrhoea. The only time you need to worry about bacteria is if you mix the raw with his cooked meal, so if he has cooked/commercial make sure he has his portion of liver a few hours after or before, say around six hours so as the other food has been digested. You could give him a whole raw meal of minced raw chicken from pah and add raw liver or you can flash fry the liver for about 30 secs to one min each side so as it's still bloody in the middle, that can be mixed with raw food quite safely.

Bacteria when mixing cooked and raw can have a bad effect on the stomach, some people feed cooked and raw together and have no probs but I personally wouldn't, especially as Josh is poorly at the mo anyway, no point risking it IMO.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks. No sign of his being sick last night, but then Ferdie could have eaten it! Vet said liver to build up his red blood cells as he was so anaemic, but perhaps I have been giving him a bit too buch. 

I shall give it a few days then take him back to the vet I think. I want him checked over anyway.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Thanks. No sign of his being sick last night, but then Ferdie could have eaten it! Vet said liver to build up his red blood cells as he was so anaemic, but perhaps I have been giving him a bit too buch.
> 
> I shall give it a few days then take him back to the vet I think. I want him checked over anyway.


Hopefully it wasnt Ferdie clearing up and he hasnt been sick and its a good sign. Just had a thought, It makes sense as you need iron for red blood cells and livers rich in iron. My daughter was anaemic and the doc told her to buy iron tablets, but we also looked at foods to, shes a veggie so its not quite such a choice, there are other meats and vegetables that are quite good iron wise although liver is the highest or one of them. Found this maybe this will be other ways to get him built up if it is the liver making him sick and he cant tolerate big amounts. I suppose the vet would suggest iron tablets if it were that simple in dogs like the doc did with my daughter. Maybe dogs dont do well on them or are intolerant to the normal ones as they can cause stomach pain and upsets in humans. There are natural plant derived ones for vegetarians and vegans that are not supposed to upset and irritate, maybe it might be worth asking about those?

Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet: Iron

Heres the link for natural food anyway, might be worth talking to your vet about?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Just dug out the vegetarian and vegan website we found when we were looking when my daughter had problems, it gives details of the veggie gentle iron supplements and more ways to get it naturally. Obviously if you think it 
might be useful you will need to talk to your vet, but it was just an idea.

Vegetarian & Vegan Foundation


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Just dug out the vegetarian and vegan website we found when we were looking when my daughter had problems, it gives details of the veggie gentle iron supplements and more ways to get it naturally. Obviously if you think it
> might be useful you will need to talk to your vet, but it was just an idea.
> 
> Vegetarian & Vegan Foundation


Thanks. My son had acute anaemia a few years ago and I was told to give him iron tablets. Luckily, he loves liver!

I'll have a look, but he is going back to the vet later in the week anyway. I want him checked over as he is still very weak, still doing nothing but sleeping and I would really like to know how he got it so that it doesn't happen again.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Thanks. My son had acute anaemia a few years ago and I was told to give him iron tablets. Luckily, he loves liver!
> 
> I'll have a look, but he is going back to the vet later in the week anyway. I want him checked over as he is still very weak, still doing nothing but sleeping and I would really like to know how he got it so that it doesn't happen again.


It is a bit of a mystery how he got it in the first place. If he is still weak and sleeping certainly wouldnt hurt to get him checked again better then sitting wondering and worrying I always say. Maybe they will do another blood test to check how it is doing red blood cell count wise.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Hopefully it wasnt Ferdie clearing up and he hasnt been sick and its a good sign. Just had a thought, It makes sense as you need iron for red blood cells and livers rich in iron. My daughter was anaemic and the doc told her to buy iron tablets, but we also looked at foods to, shes a veggie so its not quite such a choice, there are other meats and vegetables that are quite good iron wise although liver is the highest or one of them. Found this maybe this will be other ways to get him built up if it is the liver making him sick and he cant tolerate big amounts. I suppose the vet would suggest iron tablets if it were that simple in dogs like the doc did with my daughter. Maybe dogs dont do well on them or are intolerant to the normal ones as they can cause stomach pain and upsets in humans. There are natural plant derived ones for vegetarians and vegans that are not supposed to upset and irritate, maybe it might be worth asking about those?
> 
> Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet: Iron
> 
> Heres the link for natural food anyway, might be worth talking to your vet about?


I am very confused now. I took him back to the vet last night as he doesn't seem to be keeping anything down and has lost so much weight. The head vet has gone on holiday, but before he left he said it was fine for him to have his trocoxil for his arthritis. I was about to order it yesterday, but went to see this other lady vet (who seems quite good) and she told me that the results of the faeces test had come in that day and he was bleeding into his poo. She said not to give him the trocoxil as that might be what is causing it!

She took some more blood and said not to try supplements until she had the results back. I am switching him on to fish now as he obviously cannot cope with liver and fish has lots of vitamin B, doesn't it?

In fact, neither of them do very well on meat stuffs, they do much better on fish.

So now I am waiting for more test results and still don't know what is causing the bleeding.

I think he should be having scans to find out for certain, but no one has suggested it.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Is Trocoxil an anti inflammatory drug because if it is, it can def cause bleeding of the stomach, even if taken with food and as Josh hasn't been keeping his food down it may have had an even worse affect on his stomach. Have never used this drug myself but Rimadyl and Metacam can also cause stomach bleeding, just like Aspirin and Ibuprofen can with us.

Poor boy I really hope they can find the cause and make him comfortable at last.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I am very confused now. I took him back to the vet last night as he doesn't seem to be keeping anything down and has lost so much weight. The head vet has gone on holiday, but before he left he said it was fine for him to have his trocoxil for his arthritis. I was about to order it yesterday, but went to see this other lady vet (who seems quite good) and she told me that the results of the faeces test had come in that day and he was bleeding into his poo. She said not to give him the trocoxil as that might be what is causing it!
> 
> She took some more blood and said not to try supplements until she had the results back. I am switching him on to fish now as he obviously cannot cope with liver and fish has lots of vitamin B, doesn't it?
> 
> In fact, neither of them do very well on meat stuffs, they do much better on fish.


I looked into Trocoxil as a neighbours dog was on it and she asked what did I think. Still got the leaflet.
It says do not use in dogs suffering from gastro intestinal disorders, including ulceration and bleeding. Do not use where there is evidence of haemorrhagic disorder, which I think is bleeding disorders.
So all in all, as they dont exactly know whats going on apart from the fact he is aneamic and evidence of blood in the poo the vet needs his arse kicked IMO
for saying give it to him.

Ive just looked up the Adverse reactions too, it mentions loss of appetite,diarrhoea,vomiting apathy, and possible changes in Kidney function parameters. I would deffinately not give him more. Or not at the moment.
It looks like after the 1st and 2nd doses effect duration can be up to 2mths anyway. How long has Josh been on it? according to the leaflet they should have a break after 7 cycles from the beginning which is 6 half months.
have they been taking regular blood tests too while he has been on it?
Apparently manufacterers reccomend check and blood tests for kidney,liver and intestinal problems prior to treatment plus regular monitoring.

I know NSIADS can cause ulceration, not sure how you check for ulceration of the stomach as you said a scan I would assume, just wondering if he has a
ulcer in his stomach.

This is all hypothetical of course.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Totally agree SDH - why they would give him an anti inflam if he has internal bleeding is beyond me!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Totally agree SDH - why they would give him an anti inflam if he has internal bleeding is beyond me!


Search me its pretty basic veterinary stuff after all. Or is that just to simple.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

He has been on trocoxil for 18 months, ever since he was first diagnosed with arthritis. every six months he has a month off them and a blood test to make sure there is no organ damage before he goes back on them. He had the last of these blood tests about two months ago.

I asked the vet if he could take his trocoxil while he had this and he said yes. The only reason he hasn't had them is because I couldn't afford them, so he is a week late with them anyway. I just got a prescription for which I paid £11, though hadn't ordered the trocoxil yet.

It is a bit of a shambles now then. Don't know what to do really, as he should have told me not to give them to him until this present thing was diagnosed properly.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Poor Josh  hope the change of food helps. Our pins vet is against Trocoxil when I asked her about it for Banjo, Im sure she said they have had alot of dogs become ill on it  nothing perminant I dont think I can ask her next week about it if you want.

Hugs to you both xxx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Dally Banjo said:


> Poor Josh  hope the change of food helps. Our pins vet is against Trocoxil when I asked her about it for Banjo, Im sure she said they have had alot of dogs become ill on it  nothing perminant I dont think I can ask her next week about it if you want.
> 
> Hugs to you both xxx


When he had a bad flare up about three months ago I was going to change him on to cartrophen. Then the hydro was helping so thought I would keep him on trocoxil. I didn't know about the side affects to be honest, but I don't understand why he said to keep him on them if he suspects an ulcer anyway, and hadn't had the poo test results back.

The odd thing is that the reason I took him back on Wednesday was because Wednesday morning, there was vomit all over the place, really bad. Yesterday my grandson, who is dossing on my sofa, tells me it was Ferdie!

So obviously liver doesn't agree with him either. I probably wouldn't have taken him had I known it was Ferdie.

Well, I shan't be putting him back on them now. Thanks for the information.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Poor Josh, was thinking of him last night 

When do you get the test results back?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Poor Josh, was thinking of him last night
> 
> When do you get the test results back?


One lot will be back today, a few days for the other one as they have to send them away. When the vet first took his blood Friday before last he said it wad diluted. This one didn't say anything, and it looked ok (what do I know?) so it is really to test if he is still anaemic.

He is taking an interest in things now, but he is just so weak. Takes him an age to get outside and he sleeps all the time.

I am definitely not giving them any more liver, though.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Been racking my brain  as to what she said about Trocoxil it may have been that if a dog is on that & something else goes wrong they cant give certain drugs as they dont mix epilepsy etc but will double check next week.

Dont blame either of them for not likeing liver though :arf:  x


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

Ask your vet if Josh could have Pardale which is veterinary paracetamol and codeine, excellent painkiller without causing gastric bleeding. 
I am not a fan of NSAID's and know first hand about side effect of bleeding both GI and massive bruising due to causing reduced ability of blood to clot. Co-codamol is just as good at relieving the pain of arthritis. Hope Josh is improving.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Sorry to read all this, hope you and Josh are bearing up and you can get him on the road to recovery soon as possible xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Dally Banjo said:


> Been racking my brain  as to what she said about Trocoxil it may have been that if a dog is on that & something else goes wrong they cant give certain drugs as they dont mix epilepsy etc but will double check next week.
> 
> Dont blame either of them for not likeing liver though :arf:  x


I feel the same about liver, but they love it. It just obviously doesn't like them, well not in those sorts of quantities anyway. I gave him a little fish with his barking heads last night. I could only get the sort with the sauce on round the corner, but at least it stayed down.

I looked up trocoxil before I went out this morning and it said it can cause damage to the gut, so I reckon that is what has caused all this. What I don't understand is why the vet didn't know that. He was talking about ulcers, but didn't give any indication of how he could have got an ulcer.

I'll have a look at some other arthritis medications and see if there are any side effects to those. He is obviously going to be prone to everything, so perhaps there is nothing he can take except plain old painkillers.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

I think it's best if you ask the vet to review the medication that Joshua is currently on to reduce the chances of one drug reacting to another.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Cartrophen contains ani inflammatory properties which is why you have to stop giving Metacam or Rimadyl four days before treatment. I can't exactly remember how but even by injection it still has an effect on the stomach (daughter's a nurse and has explained before) so he still shouldn't have that at the mo. 

A great pain killer is Tramadol as it's an opiod and doesn't affect the stomach. The problem is with conditions like HD and arthritis an anti inflammatory is a drug of choice as it's is more effective. Tramadol is fairly cheap - my vet charges £9.00 for 25 100mg tablets and my vet is usually expensive. I did once buy a prescription off of him for ACP as he'd stopped supplying them and it cost me £11 then I had to pay the other vet £15 to fill it, so it actually worked out more expensive than it did when I used to buy it off my own vet.

Hopefully he'll give Josh and alternative pain killer for now as he's going to still need pain relief.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Cartrophen contains ani inflammatory properties which is why you have to stop giving Metacam or Rimadyl four days before treatment. I can't exactly remember how but even by injection it still has an effect on the stomach (daughter's a nurse and has explained before) so he still shouldn't have that at the mo.
> 
> A great pain killer is Tramadol as it's an opiod and doesn't affect the stomach. The problem is with conditions like HD and arthritis an anti inflammatory is a drug of choice as it's is more effective. Tramadol is fairly cheap - my vet charges £9.00 for 25 100mg tablets and my vet is usually expensive. I did once buy a prescription off of him for ACP as he'd stopped supplying them and it cost me £11 then I had to pay the other vet £15 to fill it, so it actually worked out more expensive than it did when I used to buy it off my own vet.
> 
> Hopefully he'll give Josh and alternative pain killer for now as he's going to still need pain relief.


He has tramadol when his legs hurt more than usual and during the time he is off his trocoxil. I have just been talking to my daughter in Australia who is a vet nurse and she says he has to have something more for his arthritis or he will be in too much pain, but for now he's not having anything till I know what is causing the bleeding.

She also told me to demand an ultra sound to find out if he has an ulcer. I think I will have to do that, as they seem to be dragging their feet over a proper diagnosis. He has some stuff to line his stomach, which will help if it is an ulcer.

She also kept telling me how serious it is, which I didn't need to know really. But it is better to have someone who can say that and not pussy foot around things as seems to be the norm nowadays.

I shall insist on an ultra sound I think. Cambridge vets hospital is only up the road and I think he needs to go there.

I shall give him lots of white fish and see if that stays down ok.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Great that you can get advice from your daughter  just hope they can stop this bleeding as it must be making him so weak. I know there are doggie blood donors and wonder how expensive it is to have blood transfusions - they could possibly take blood from Ferdie for Josh.

This all must be costing a fortune, such a massive worry along with everything else you're dealing with now. I still owe Noel Fitzpatrick £500 and my own vet £600 as I used all his insurance last op but they are both happy to let me pay it off in instalments - hope your vet is as understanding.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Great that you can get advice from your daughter  just hope they can stop this bleeding as it must be making him so weak. I know there are doggie blood donors and wonder how expensive it is to have blood transfusions - they could possibly take blood from Ferdie for Josh.
> 
> This all must be costing a fortune, such a massive worry along with everything else you're dealing with now. I still owe Noel Fitzpatrick £500 and my own vet £600 as I used all his insurance last op but they are both happy to let me pay it off in instalments - hope your vet is as understanding.


I am charging this lot to the insurance. The reason they wouldn't insure his arthritis was because I first took him within ten days of the policy starting. This is different; I have had the policy for nearly two years and he is covered for up to £3000 per illness, so I can certainly have an ultrasound at their expense.

I would be happy if he would eat something, but he is not too keen on just kibble and I don't want to add any Chappie at the moment. I shall have some fish tomorrow, so hopefully he will eat that. He is still very interested in my leftovers, but I had bacon tonight and if he has an ulcer, the last thing he needs is fried.

He is very weak, can only make it slowly to the back garden for a wee. He was just getting on ok with his legs, then this happens. It is heartbreaking.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Hi Newfies mum, did you get any test results back today?
Hope Joshua is feeling better soon.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

kat&molly said:


> Hi Newfies mum, did you get any test results back today?
> Hope Joshua is feeling better soon.


No. I have to wait a bit for the second lot, though I am not really sure what she was testing for. The first one was to see if he was still anaemic. I shall ring her next week and see about an ultrasound as well.

What with him having a flare up with his legs then this, he hasn't been out for a proper walk for weeks. I shall have to start socialising him all over again, which will be hard at his age as most dogs don't like him much. He seems to give off bad vibes, as they all fall over on their backs! They don't do that with Ferdie, so he must be telling them something I don't know about.

Anyway, I shall worry about that when the time comes. I just want him well again, and I want to know exactly what has caused all this.


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I am charging this lot to the insurance. The reason they wouldn't insure his arthritis was because I first took him within ten days of the policy starting. This is different; I have had the policy for nearly two years and he is covered for up to £3000 per illness, so I can certainly have an ultrasound at their expense.
> 
> I would be happy if he would eat something, but he is not too keen on just kibble and I don't want to add any Chappie at the moment. I shall have some fish tomorrow, so hopefully he will eat that. He is still very interested in my leftovers, but I had bacon tonight and if he has an ulcer, the last thing he needs is fried.
> 
> He is very weak, can only make it slowly to the back garden for a wee. He was just getting on ok with his legs, then this happens. It is heartbreaking.


 I was surprised how much scans and x rays actually cost, I've got a claim running now and always check how much my bill goes up after each visit, my dog had a ct scan and wouldn't wanted to have coughed up for that. I hope they get to the bottom of this, I know it can be worrying but maybe the fact they havent found anything conclusive yet is a good sign? I'm no expert or vet so won't speculate as to what it could be but hope you get answers soon


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Tiley said:


> I was surprised how much scans and x rays actually cost, I've got a claim running now and always check how much my bill goes up after each visit, my dog had a ct scan and wouldn't wanted to have coughed up for that. I hope they get to the bottom of this, I know it can be worrying but maybe the fact they havent found anything conclusive yet is a good sign? I'm no expert or vet so won't speculate as to what it could be but hope you get answers soon


Because they wouldn't pay for his arthritis, the x-rays cost me £900. That is because he is such a big dog and needs extra anaesthetic.

Having spoken to my daughter, Sherri, I am pretty sure it is an ulcer. She says it sounds like it, though she also says they usually get diarrhea which he hasn't had.

I can't help if I don't know for sure, can I?


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Because they wouldn't pay for his arthritis, the x-rays cost me £900. That is because he is such a big dog and needs extra anaesthetic.
> 
> Having spoken to my daughter, Sherri, I am pretty sure it is an ulcer. She says it sounds like it, though she also says they usually get diarrhea which he hasn't had.
> 
> I can't help if I don't know for sure, can I?


Wow, didn't even think of that?! £900!!. Yep it makes things difficult for you not knowing, if he's not eating anything wouldn't it be worth trying him on the chappie? I've been mixing it in with redds thought when he's been off of it and it seems to work most the time!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Tiley said:


> Wow, didn't even think of that?! £900!!. Yep it makes things difficult for you not knowing, if he's not eating anything wouldn't it be worth trying him on the chappie? I've been mixing it in with redds thought when he's been off of it and it seems to work most the time!


Well, if it is an ulcer, I don't want to give him any commercial foods which might upset his stomach. He has been having a little chappie for a long time, but the vet said a bland diet so I just put his barking heads out, which is salmon and potato. I think if he was really hungry he would eat it as it is. He often does.

He will be getting fish with it from tomorrow.


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Well, if it is an ulcer, I don't want to give him any commercial foods which might upset his stomach. He has been having a little chappie for a long time, but the vet said a bland diet so I just put his barking heads out, which is salmon and potato. I think if he was really hungry he would eat it as it is. He often does.
> 
> He will be getting fish with it from tomorrow.


Sounds like a plan, sorry can't be of much help. How do they treat ulcers? Do they use meds or is there an op? Hope he picks up for you soon!


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

I believe they give them an acid reducing medicine for ulcers and cut back on anti-inflamatory drugs or anything containing aspirin.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

The vet gave me some syrup to line his stomach before meals which my daughter also said is the most they can do for an ulcer. It is difficult, though, to give an hour before food as neither of my dogs eat a meal when it is put down. They like to graze, sort of keep returning and having a nibble.


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

912142 said:


> I believe they give them an acid reducing medicine for ulcers and cut back on anti-inflamatory drugs or anything containing aspirin.


At least its not very intensive treatment then, thats good.


newfiesmum said:


> The vet gave me some syrup to line his stomach before meals which my daughter also said is the most they can do for an ulcer. It is difficult, though, to give an hour before food as neither of my dogs eat a meal when it is put down. They like to graze, sort of keep returning and having a nibble.


Have the same problems with mine, he will eat anything instantly and non stop apart from HIS food!, he goes back and fourth to his bowl, which makes giving meds a pain sometimes, Redd has zantac 30mins before meals but sometimes wont eat 30 mins after meals. I just try my best really and find mixing a little chappie in sometimes gets him interested. Sounds good if your daughter says the syrup is for ulcers, looks like your vet may be thinking the same.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hi in bath and the trocoxil leaflets a neighbour gave me is at home but i remember you have to wait awhile before certain other meds can be used. Steroid anti inflams might have been up 2 2mths before use from last trocoxil dose. Hope the results find out more for you.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Marty had Zantac when he had pancreatitis and it doesn't need to be taken before meals I also have a stomach ulcer and take Zantac and I only have to take it twice a day, once morn and once eve. no mention of before meals so if the dogs don't eat at the required time I wouldn't worry because Zantac is a H2 receptor blocker, which means it blocks acid receptors in the stomach. It is not like Milk Of Magnesia or Milpar which coats the stomach with chalk, Zantac works on the brain. H2-receptor antagonists - H2 Blockers

I never really understood why the vet said Marty had to have Zantac before a meal as it works entirely differently than chalky medicines.


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

Malmum said:


> Marty had Zantac when he had pancreatitis and it doesn't need to be taken before meals I also have a stomach ulcer and take Zantac and I only have to take it twice a day, once morn and once eve. no mention of before meals so if the dogs don't eat at the required time I wouldn't worry because Zantac is a H2 receptor blocker, which means it blocks acid receptors in the stomach. It is not like Milk Of Magnesia or Milpar which coats the stomach with chalk, Zantac works on the brain. H2-receptor antagonists - H2 Blockers
> 
> I never really understood why the vet said Marty had to have Zantac before a meal as it works entirely differently than chalky medicines.


Good to know! Vet gave me the liquid and syringe, now the tablets, didn't even really know what is was for, just one med of a long list that was told to give 30 mins before meals on his chemo protocol. How is Joshua today? Has he eaten anything?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Hi in bath and the trocoxil leaflets a neighbour gave me is at home but i remember you have to wait awhile before certain other meds can be used. Steroid anti inflams might have been up 2 2mths before use from last trocoxil dose. Hope the results find out more for you.


Yes, there has to be a two month gap before he can start any other sort.



Tiley said:


> Good to know! Vet gave me the liquid and syringe, now the tablets, didn't even really know what is was for, just one med of a long list that was told to give 30 mins before meals on his chemo protocol. How is Joshua today? Has he eaten anything?


The Zantac he has to have 30 mins before the other stuff, antepsin, I think and that needs to be an hour before his meal.

He did finish his kibble eventually last night, but hasn't touched what I put out this morning. He is supposed to have the medicines twice a day before meals, but he doesn't eat twice a day.

I had a message from the vet this morning. I couldn't speak to her as I was on a lesson but he still has signs of the infection so she said she would leave him out some antibiotics. I phoned them back, asked if they could leave them out behind the flower pot as the other vet did last week, but when I went up they weren't there. So I have to wait till Monday now, when he is going back for a multi vitamin injection.

She said that the tests are showing some strange shaped red blood cells and the white cells aren't eating up the infection like they are supposed to. She is speaking to the lab about that on Monday.

So he still has the infection floating around and he is still anaemic, but I didn't get the last bit of the message as the answerphone decided she had had enough time.

Why do these things always happen at weekends?

I am going out poo collecting now, to see if it looks any better!


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

Will have to wait and see I suppose, at least he's got some food down him. As for the weekend thing all redds flair ups have been friday nights, luckily the vet we use is a hospital type thing with long hours


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't know what to do. Need some opinions, please. Joshua has been having the zantac and antepsin as per instructions, but he still can't keep anything down. He has been throwing up all morning, even water. I have to take him back tomorrow, but now I am wondering whether to wait or phone the emergency vet?

He will get dehydrated if he doesn't even keep water down.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Personally I would phone the emergency vet for advice, at least they will either put your mind at rest or see him in case they feel he may dehydrate. 

Poor boy, he's had so much to cope with.  You too must be pretty exhausted by now!

I'm sorry to be so stupid but I can't remember if Josh has had a scan yet. If he hasn't that would give a better indication as to what's going on inside.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I phoned the vet and it was the one he saw last time, so didn't need to explain. He is going to have to go on to a drip to get some fluids down him. I am not happy as there is no one there at night, but she said she looks in from time to time.

He hasn't had a scan yet, though I think he should have. 

I can cope with exhaustion, it is the dread I cannot cope with.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Oh no  Im sorry to hear Josh is at the vets thinking of you both & sending a huge hug xxx


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Sorry to hear he isn't doing too well; thinking of you. xx.


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

He's in the best place he can be, that's all you can do, hope he's better soon


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I've just taken him in. There aren't even any other dogs or cats there tonight and he has never been completely on his own without a human or Ferdie. 

She is going to put him on a drip with antibiotics and anti nausea as well as fluids. She wants to do x-rays now - says that he might have two things going on.

She says he could have a heart condition which could be causing the septicemia, but that wouldn't cause vomiting. She also said that if it is the trocoxil, it wouldn't have caused such a high temperature. It seems his heart rate has gone up again.

Isn't it funny how they are keen to do these things once they find out he is insured?


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I've just taken him in. There aren't even any other dogs or cats there tonight and he has never been completely on his own without a human or Ferdie.
> 
> She is going to put him on a drip with antibiotics and anti nausea as well as fluids. She wants to do x-rays now - says that he might have two things going on.
> 
> ...


poor guy  I hope after the fluids, anti emetics and antibiotics help him to feel better in the morning  he's been through so much already.

can't they give you the anti emetics in tablet form to give to him at home? or would the insurance pay for you to take injections home (although it depends on whether the injections are subcutaneous or intramuscular. . . because they may not let you do intramuscular ones yourself. . . but then again most intramuscular injections work subcut too just don't get into the system quite so quickly. . . ) because if you can keep on top of the nausea he can keep food and fluid down and not need to be on a drip again after tonight


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> poor guy  I hope after the fluids, anti emetics and antibiotics help him to feel better in the morning  he's been through so much already.
> 
> can't they give you the anti emetics in tablet form to give to him at home? or would the insurance pay for you to take injections home (although it depends on whether the injections are subcutaneous or intramuscular. . . because they may not let you do intramuscular ones yourself. . . but then again most intramuscular injections work subcut too just don't get into the system quite so quickly. . . ) because if you can keep on top of the nausea he can keep food and fluid down and not need to be on a drip again after tonight


Tablets wouldn't work as nothing is staying down not even water. I could no more give him an injection than fly to the moon, I'm afraid. That is one thing I know for certain I couldn't do; I would be too scared of getting it in the wrong place!

My daughter once had a rabbit which was having daily injections, from her, and she thought she was going to go on holiday and leave me to do them! No way! I said I would be happy to take him to the vet every day, but I couldn't possibly inject him myself.

I will have to see how he is tomorrow. At least she is talking about x-rays now so we can find out for certain what is going on with him.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Tablets wouldn't work as nothing is staying down not even water. I could no more give him an injection than fly to the moon, I'm afraid. That is one thing I know for certain I couldn't do; I would be too scared of getting it in the wrong place!
> 
> My daughter once had a rabbit which was having daily injections, from her, and she thought she was going to go on holiday and leave me to do them! No way! I said I would be happy to take him to the vet every day, but I couldn't possibly inject him myself.
> 
> I will have to see how he is tomorrow. At least she is talking about x-rays now so we can find out for certain what is going on with him.


they would have to train you to do the injections but they would be a tiny needle and then it would just be a case of pinching his skin anywhere you could grab something worth grabbing and injecting into it  but if you wouldn't feel comfortable it's better to leave it to the vet  if they can get the nausea under control with one type of anti-sickness in the drip then they will have tablets that are a different type (therefore can be given at the same time) and start him on the tablets whilst the drip one is still taking effect. . .then if you could give him them every 4 hours or as close together as they can be given then he wouldn't end up vomiting because the effects of the medication would never be allowed to wear off  I'm just thinking of solutions in case they're planning on sending him home whilst they check stuff 

poor little thing it must be so awful for you 

at least on here people understand what you're going through because a lot of people don't understand how awful it is to have a poorly pet. . .it's quite literally the equivalent to having a child in hospital 

got everything crossed that he feels better tomorrow and they can see what's going on with the xrays and get him sorted asap!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> they would have to train you to do the injections but they would be a tiny needle and then it would just be a case of pinching his skin anywhere you could grab something worth grabbing and injecting into it  but if you wouldn't feel comfortable it's better to leave it to the vet  if they can get the nausea under control with one type of anti-sickness in the drip then they will have tablets that are a different type (therefore can be given at the same time) and start him on the tablets whilst the drip one is still taking effect. . .then if you could give him them every 4 hours or as close together as they can be given then he wouldn't end up vomiting because the effects of the medication would never be allowed to wear off  I'm just thinking of solutions in case they're planning on sending him home whilst they check stuff
> 
> poor little thing it must be so awful for you
> 
> ...


I could be trained to use a parachute, but I certainly wouldn't do it!! There is no question that I could no more give an injection that jump out of an aeroplane.

I don't know what she is planning about the x-rays. I want him home tomorrow if possible, as apart from the worry, Ferdie won't eat. He keeps nudging me, asking me where Joshua is. I don't need him being ill as well.


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

This thread is just heartbreaking  Poor poor Joshua, and poor you too. I hope things start looking up tomorrow.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Im really sorry to hear Josh is at the Vet's, I cant even imagine how you are feeling right now.

Il be watching closely for updates, my thoughts are with you  x x x x


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I'll second that Nellybelly.


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## ameliajane (Mar 26, 2011)

So sorry you and Joshua are going through all this. Thinking of you both and hoping you get some better news soon. x


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

just got back from Bath and thought I would check in and see how Joshuas doing, so sorry the poor Lads no better, really hope you get some good news in the morning.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Sorry to hear that Joshua is at the vets.

Hope you get some better news in the morning


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

You are all so kind. I am worried sick about him and so is Ferdie. He keeps laying his head on my lap and nudging me. I will keep you updated.


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## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

Hope you get good news in the morning and he is feeling a bit better :frown: xx


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Big hugs for Joshua, you & Ferdie....

Hope he`s feeling a little better & can get home today. Hopefully they will get some answers for you soon x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I spoke to the vet this morning and she said he hadn't vomitted, but then he hasn't eaten has he? She said his heart rate was still way too fast, though, so I am waiting for her to ring me now.

I suppose they can't do x-rays and scans until his heart rate is back to normal, but I don't like the maybe or if or it could be. I want to know what is causing all this.

I have been worried about him all night thinking of him up there on his own. Ferdie won't eat. My grandson gave him a piece of cheese and he went and buried it! Perhaps he is saving it for Joshua as it is his favourite thing.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I was hoping for better news today . So sorry that you still don't have any answers and I can only imagine the worry you are feeling. Stay strong and I'll keep you in my thoughts.xx.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

So sorry you are still waiting to find out.  Fingers crossed for Joshua, I hope he's better soon.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Sorry to hear you are none the wiser still, really hope you get something deffinate soon so that they can start to treat him.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

It looks like he will be spending another night there. I tried ringing earlier but she was doing an emergency operation. She is supposed to be phoning me back, but all I have so far are messages passed on by the receptionist.

I really wanted him back tonight. I am so worried about him, I would be happier if I could keep an eye on him myself.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Fingers crossed for you both, I really hope you get some news soon x


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

only just caught back up with this thread, so sorry to hear about Joshua, and poor Ferdie too, it's so upsetting seeing them missing their pal isn't it. Fingers and paws crossed here for answers and solutions soon


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Im sorry  was realy hopeing he would be home tonight, hopefully you will have some news atleast soon though xxx


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> It looks like he will be spending another night there. I tried ringing earlier but she was doing an emergency operation. She is supposed to be phoning me back, but all I have so far are messages passed on by the receptionist.
> 
> I really wanted him back tonight. I am so worried about him, I would be happier if I could keep an eye on him myself.


awww bless you. . .at least if he is there he will probably still be on fluids and things . ..but I can understand why you want him home!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Vet just phoned. Said his heart rate has decreased a little but she wants to keep him to make sure he has stopped vomitting. I think she is planning on x-rays tomorrow, so hopefully we will find out exactly what is wrong with him.

I shall speak to her tomorrow. I just want to go give him a big cuddle, but that wouldn't be fair on him.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Vet just phoned. Said his heart rate has decreased a little but she wants to keep him to make sure he has stopped vomitting. I think she is planning on x-rays tomorrow, so hopefully we will find out exactly what is wrong with him.
> 
> I shall speak to her tomorrow. I just want to go give him a big cuddle, but that wouldn't be fair on him.


at least his heart rate is a good sign!!! I hope tomorrow brings good news of something easily treatable x x x


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Everything crossed here for tomorrow then  you can give him extra cuddles tomorrow  xxx


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Glad his heart rate is down a little, fingers crossed for coming home tomorrow xx.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Glad there seems to have been some improvement tonight, really do feel for you and Joshua, the worry of him poorly is so hard, and not being able to be with them makes it ever harder I know. Hoping that the improvement continues tonight and tomorrow will bring some answers. Thinking of you all.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

It's awful thinking of him there on his own, I suppose we've all done it and I expect they just sleep while we stay awake worrying. At least he'll be calm and have fluids if he needs them. 

Hope they do some x rays tomorrow and see if they can get to the bottom of this at last.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

She phoned again about 7.30. She said he had kept his food down today and as long as there was no more vomitting I can pick him up tomorrow morning. She also said that his heart rate increased a lot when he was wandering about. That could be strange environment, I suppose, or could be some sort of strain on his heart.

On Saturday she said that he had some strange shaped red blood cells but she hasn't spoken to the lab about them yet. Poor woman has been rushed off her feet today, with farm visits and an emergency operation this evening, but she still managed to ring me before she went home.

I think she is reluctant to anaesthetize him to do x-rays so she is trying to eliminate things with tests. I think she is still worried about his heart rate, and so am I.

I hope I can bring him home tomorrow; it is just so empty without him.


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

Hope you get some good news soon!


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

So sorry to read about poor Joshua 

Sending him lots of positive vibes and big hugs for you and Ferdie xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I have got him home, but he is still breathing very rapidly. It could be all the strangeness I suppose, or he may have got himself worked up.

I have a whole host of stuff - antibiotics, more antepsin. She said she would phone me this evening to see what these strange red blood cells mean.

If his heart rate stays erratic, though, he is not going to be able to go back to his hydrotherapy which was the best thing for his arthritis. I am scared to try anything new for that, so it is all such a worry.

I want to thank everyone for all their kind wishes.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Glad he is home with you today. I hope you can get some more news later. Thinking of you all x


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

So happy he's back home just wish he was better  everything still crossed here for good news soon  x


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## JohnM (Mar 26, 2010)

Been following this thread since the beginning. I am thinking of you and Johua at this time.
I hope all goes well, and he continues to improve.

Best Wishes,
John


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Glad to see there has been some improvement.

Sending vibes


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I hope you get some answers soon. Thinking of you all xxx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Glad he is home with you now, at least he is not alone now so the familiar surroundings might help with any stress. I was just wondering if the increased breathing rate and the hear rate is connected to the problem with the red blood cells and the anaemia, the red blood cells carry oxygen round the body I think, so if they are not doing their job properly then that would cause a more rapid respritory rate and likely the heart would be working harder to try to pump the blood and the oxygen round the body.
Hope you hear more soon, so you can begin to get on top of the problem more.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Glad he is home with you now, at least he is not alone now so the familiar surroundings might help with any stress. I was just wondering if the increased breathing rate and the hear rate is connected to the problem with the red blood cells and the anaemia, the red blood cells carry oxygen round the body I think, so if they are not doing their job properly then that would cause a more rapid respritory rate and likely the heart would be working harder to try to pump the blood and the oxygen round the body.
> Hope you hear more soon, so you can begin to get on top of the problem more.


I expect you're right, though I need to find out from the laboratory what these strange shaped cells are all about. He is still so lethargic, when he should be running about like any three year old dog. Still at least there is hope, not like the other poor lady with the rottie/cana cross.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I expect you're right, though I need to find out from the laboratory what these strange shaped cells are all about. He is still so lethargic, when he should be running about like any three year old dog. Still at least there is hope, not like the other poor lady with the rottie/cana cross.


The anaemia and problems with his blood would account for the lethargy and sleeping though too. I know you must be frantic with worry and sadness, its the fraustration as well of not knowing what to do, but just hold on, hopefully you will have answers soon, there has been progress too, like the vomiting stopping I know it might not seem much at the moment but at least its a step in the right direction. Just remembered a friend of mine always swears by the Liquivite for Dogs, Its a canned liquid food made from chicken, liver,beef,eggs and skimmed milk for use during recovery from illness or surgery. Dont know if you can get hold of any, vet medic do it, Vet-Medic - the same medicines as your vet at consistently low prices. but then you would have to wait. Otherwise might be worth knocking up a version of your own if you have a liquidiser because thats probably all it is.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> The anaemia and problems with his blood would account for the lethargy and sleeping though too. I know you must be frantic with worry and sadness, its the fraustration as well of not knowing what to do, but just hold on, hopefully you will have answers soon, there has been progress too, like the vomiting stopping I know it might not seem much at the moment but at least its a step in the right direction. Just remembered a friend of mine always swears by the Liquivite for Dogs, Its a canned liquid food made from chicken, liver,beef,eggs and skimmed milk for use during recovery from illness or surgery. Dont know if you can get hold of any, vet medic do it, Vet-Medic - the same medicines as your vet at consistently low prices. but then you would have to wait. Otherwise might be worth knocking up a version of your own if you have a liquidiser because thats probably all it is.


Well he normally has original Chappie and Barking Heads, but vet said just to give him the chappie in three or four meals, so I have been to Tesco to get the giant tins.

He looks so fed up with himself, bless him. I also have my daughter, and the breeder, telling me he ought to have this test and that test, but I am sure the vet has thought of all that, just wants to rule out other things before doing anything more. She has ruled out auto-immune disease, and some other things I didn't quite understand.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Well he normally has original Chappie and Barking Heads, but vet said just to give him the chappie in three or four meals, so I have been to Tesco to get the giant tins.
> 
> He looks so fed up with himself, bless him. I also have my daughter, and the breeder, telling me he ought to have this test and that test, but I am sure the vet has thought of all that, just wants to rule out other things before doing anything more. She has ruled out auto-immune disease, and some other things I didn't quite understand.


Ifi its auto immune then she has probably checked for auto immune hemolytic anaemia there is an immune mediated one too. I think the test for the auto immune one is a coombs test though not 100% sure on that. I would perhaps mention the tests your breeder mentioned anyway as they are likely breed specific, wont do any harm, vets dont always remember everything especially if pushed for time with work loads, so certainly wouldnt hurt in case its not something she has thought of.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Ifi its auto immune then she has probably checked for auto immune hemolytic anaemia there is an immune mediated one too. I think the test for the auto immune one is a coombs test though not 100% sure on that. I would perhaps mention the tests your breeder mentioned anyway as they are likely breed specific, wont do any harm, vets dont always remember everything especially if pushed for time with work loads, so certainly wouldnt hurt in case its not something she has thought of.


Yes, that was the one my daughter was talking about. The only breed specific heart disease that newfies are prone to is aortic stenosis and really he wouldn't have lasted this long with that.

I will ask her about further tests and stuff, but I just hate dragging him backwards and forwards to the vet when all he wants to do is sleep. He hasn't touched the chappie I gave him; I think I might cook him some white fish instead. At least he might eat that.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Yes, that was the one my daughter was talking about. The only breed specific heart disease that newfies are prone to is aortic stenosis and really he wouldn't have lasted this long with that.
> 
> I will ask her about further tests and stuff, but I just hate dragging him backwards and forwards to the vet when all he wants to do is sleep. He hasn't touched the chappie I gave him; I think I might cook him some white fish instead. At least he might eat that.


Its catch 22 though isnt it, obviously you dont want to see them going backwards and forwards and keep having tests, but really dont have much choice. Daisy has to have a thyroid test every 3 months and so does Nanuq
plus poor Daisy has to stay in for a half day every 3mths for the ACTH cushings test, and I hate taking them in specially for the one she has to stay for, but without it and the meds it could kill her, and so could the wrong level of meds, sometimes its a small price to pay though, Daisys a different dog and its taken years off her now treated for the Cushings.

As hard as it is and it does make you feel bad for them keep ferrying them about, but it needs to be done, I do know where your coming from though about having to do it.


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Well he normally has original Chappie and Barking Heads, but vet said just to give him the chappie in three or four meals, so I have been to Tesco to get the giant tins.


I would change Joshua food for home made. He is exhausted and how we know even digestion needs energy. Digesting dry food can takes up to 4h!

I'm sending good vibes for both of you...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Andromeda said:


> I would change Joshua food for home made. He is exhausted and how we know even digestion needs energy. Digesting dry food can takes up to 4h!
> 
> I'm sending good vibes for both of you...


Vet said not to give him the dried, just the Chappie but he wouldn't touch it at lunchtime. I cooked him some fish but he wouldn't touch that either. He has had a little fish this evening but not very much. I don't know what they gave him at the vets, but she said he ate it. I shall have to find out.

He is not going to get any better if he doesn't eat, is he?


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Vet said not to give him the dried, just the Chappie but he wouldn't touch it at lunchtime. I cooked him some fish but he wouldn't touch that either. He has had a little fish this evening but not very much. I don't know what they gave him at the vets, but she said he ate it. I shall have to find out.
> 
> He is not going to get any better if he doesn't eat, is he?


 Poor love, he needs to eat xx How about scrambled egg ? just see if you can hand feed it to tempt him maybe  xx


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

Not really... He needs energy to fight his illness. Maybe if you could blend his food and put small amount straight to his mouth...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> Poor love, he needs to eat xx How about scrambled egg ? just see if you can hand feed it to tempt him maybe  xx





Andromeda said:


> Not really... He needs energy to fight his illness. Maybe if you could blend his food and put small amount straight to his mouth...


I tried giving him the rest of the fish from my hand, but he turned his nose up. Perhaps I don't smell good! At least he has eaten a very small amount. I will get him some chicken tomorrow - he has always loved chicken and if he won't eat that, it will be another trip to the vet.

I am still waiting to hear about the strange red blood cells.

To be honest I have never in my life seen a dog so ill, not since I was a child and our old crossbreed mastiff/dobermann got a rat virus. I will never forget him sitting in the garden, vomitting, with a blanket around his shoulders. The one and only time my parents ever used the services of a vet.

I was only about 10, but that memory has always stayed with me.

Joshua is almost as ill as that. It is a real struggle for him to get up and go for a wee, but he is still doing that, not just going wherever he is like poor Bruce was.

I just wish I could know exactly what he has got, but she is still doing tests to rule things out.


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

Use syringe to put food in his mouth. 
Sorry I don't know what else you can do... I wish to help :crying:


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Andromeda said:


> Use syringe to put food in his mouth.
> Sorry I don't know what else you can do... I wish to help :crying:


I know and I do appreciate it. I shall find a way. At least he has eaten a little something and I shall try some strangled egg tomorrow!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I know and I do appreciate it. I shall find a way. At least he has eaten a little something and I shall try some strangled egg tomorrow!


sending love  you must be so desperately worried xx.

Is he drinking water ok ?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> sending love  you must be so desperately worried xx.
> 
> Is he drinking water ok ?


I don't think he has drunk anything today but then he has spent two days and nights having fluids pumped into him through an intravenas tube, so I am not too worried yet.

I am tearing my hair out actually, wondering what the hell is wrong with him. I am not a worrier by nature, everything goes over my head, but this has been so awful. I just want him better, but it seems to have been ages since he was really well. He was just getting back to fairly normal with his legs, which is probably why this has hit me so hard.

I was thinking he could be an almost proper dog after all. Now all that has changed.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I don't think he has drunk anything today but then he has spent two days and nights having fluids pumped into him through an intravenas tube, so I am not too worried yet.
> 
> I am tearing my hair out actually, wondering what the hell is wrong with him. I am not a worrier by nature, everything goes over my head, but this has been so awful. I just want him better, but it seems to have been ages since he was really well. He was just getting back to fairly normal with his legs, which is probably why this has hit me so hard.
> 
> I was thinking he could be an almost proper dog after all. Now all that has changed.


It's so unfair, for a dog that young to have to deal with all this  You have been through the ringer with this boy


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> It's so unfair, for a dog that young to have to deal with all this  You have been through the ringer with this boy


That is the trouble, really, his age. When my Sammy got old we spent ages having the vet in, hauling him to his feet every morning, giving him his medicines, finding him food which didn't upset him................

But he was nearly fourteen and you just do your best and carry on. Joshua is only three, which is what is so upsetting really.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> That is the trouble, really, his age. When my Sammy got old we spent ages having the vet in, hauling him to his feet every morning, giving him his medicines, finding him food which didn't upset him................
> 
> But he was nearly fourteen and you just do your best and carry on. Joshua is only three, which is what is so upsetting really.


I can only imagine  xxx Here if you fancy meeting for coffee anytime xx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Do you think it might be worth liquidising some maybe chicken, liver maybe even some vegetables and even some potato with some stock and making a type of liquid food like the liquivite I mentioned. Maybe then you could syringe it into the corner of his mouth and he might be encouraged to lick it or take it freely once he has the taste. Even if you could get some down him little and often it may help, plus it wont require any effort to take some on his part.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Do you think it might be worth liquidising some maybe chicken, liver maybe even some vegetables and even some potato with some stock and making a type of liquid food like the liquivite I mentioned. Maybe then you could syringe it into the corner of his mouth and he might be encouraged to lick it or take it freely once he has the taste. Even if you could get some down him little and often it may help, plus it wont require any effort to take some on his part.


and it would also help with him digesting it more quickly because when it is liquidised it is the hardest part of the digestion done for him and the quicker it is digested the quicker he gets energy 

poor little guy!


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

have you tried any sneaky little tricks like slow roasting a chicken so that the smell fills the house? it may get him salivating and hungry. . . 

I find that whenever my parents are cooking meat slowly in the oven (I don't eat meat so it's only when they do it) my dog get extremely hungry and will literally eat anything


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks for all your suggestions. I will see what he is like tomorrow. I might be able to mince up chicken, but don't know about liquidising. I shall have to ask my son how the liquidiser works!! He knows more about my gadgets than I do.


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> That is the trouble, really, his age. When my Sammy got old we spent ages having the vet in, hauling him to his feet every morning, giving him his medicines, finding him food which didn't upset him................
> 
> But he was nearly fourteen and you just do your best and carry on. Joshua is only three, which is what is so upsetting really.


I know how you feel, redd is only 6 and we've been told 2yrs lifespan absolute max, it's never easy but makes you really want to fight for your dog when they haven't had their time yet. Anyways redds very unfortunate, Josh may just have a treatable condition, hopefully it's something that once diagnosed can be treated easily. Fingers crossed for you


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I thought things were looking up last night. When I opened the cake cupboard to get a jammie dodger to tempt Ferdie indoors, Joshua came and asked for one as well. And he ate it. But this morning I can't get him to eat the scrambled eggs I made him.

I will pop in the vet on the way back today and see what she says. So far, he hasn't eaten one jammie dodger since Saturday.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

He is back in the vets. They had to come and collect him as he was semi conscious and we could not get him up. They carried him out on a stretcher. She said he has another internal bleed.

I just know I am going to lose him.


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> He is back in the vets. They had to come and collect him as he was semi conscious and we could not get him up. They carried him out on a stretcher. She said he has another internal bleed.
> 
> I just know I am going to lose him.


I know I don't contribute much, but I keep checking back on this thread and I am so sorry to read this update. I just don't know what to say. hoping for a miracle.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

I, too, have been reading this thread from the start and I check it every day. My heart goes out to you Newfiesmum. I will keep you and Joshua in my prayers.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

It is the worst news. Joshua passed away about an hour ago. It seems he had another internal bleed and it looks likely that it was a tumour that had ruptured, though without a post mortem there is no telling for certain. I don't think I want that as it cannot bring him back.


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

Run free Joshua... 

So sorry for your lost...


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Im really sorry to hear this. RIP in Joshua. Hugs to you.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Oh no, what a tragic loss for you Newfiesmum. I am so very sorry.

Run free at the bridge dear Joshua.

Newfiesmum, you know you have the thoughts and support of everyone on here. May your memories of beautiful Joshua bring you comfort. Thinking of you and Ferdie.


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

Sorry for your loss, no more pain.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

God love him.  I am so very sorry. My dog died of the same thing, though he was in his old age. He had the same anaemic symptoms though I didn't wish to contribute this whilst you were still trying to establish a diagnosis as once it has gotten to that stage there is really nothing to be done and I had so hoped it would be something else. 

If it is any consolation to you my dog passed extremely quickly when he experienced his rupture. It is typical of this kind of death. 

RIP Joshua, you are free now.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

jenniferx said:


> God love him.  I am so very sorry. My dog died of the same thing, though he was in his old age. He had the same anaemic symptoms though I didn't wish to contribute this whilst you were still trying to establish a diagnosis as once it has gotten to that stage there is really nothing to be done and I had so hoped it would be something else.
> 
> If it is any consolation to you my dog passed extremely quickly when he experienced his rupture. It is typical of this kind of death.
> 
> RIP Joshua, you are free now.


Thanks for that. I don't think he was in any pain, just let them lift him on to a stretcher and carry him out to the van. He passed away within an hour of them getting him there.

Now I don't know what to do about his remains. I am not sure I can bear to have him buried in the garden and I would expect Ferdie to find him which would be awful. I don't go in for graves, not even for people.

I said I would ring her back about it, but just don't feel up to it now.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

I cannot express how sorry i am to hear this news  Sending all the love i can, what awful news 

Try not to think too far ahead at the moment, you must be in shock xx 

That coffee and a shoulder is here if you ever need it, my PM box is at your disposal xx 

Run Free Handsome Boy xx


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

I am so very very sorry, it does make it much harder to accept when they go through so much and pass away so very young.

My son made the decision for us, he asked to have his ashes which came to us in a box with a plaque on. It is kind of comforting having that back at home


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## redginald (Aug 18, 2011)

Oh no, I'm really sorry to hear this, thoughts are with you


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Thanks for that. I don't think he was in any pain, just let them lift him on to a stretcher and carry him out to the van. He passed away within an hour of them getting him there.
> 
> Now I don't know what to do about his remains. I am not sure I can bear to have him buried in the garden and I would expect Ferdie to find him which would be awful. I don't go in for graves, not even for people.
> 
> I said I would ring her back about it, but just don't feel up to it now.


Yes with Boo, he took a drink at 3am when he seemed himself (in total he had been diagnosed about 6 weeks) at 3.30am I got up because I heard him make a noise and by 3.45am he had died. All so sudden and shocking.

Try not to stress yourself with the arrangements, which is easier said than done I know. We opted for cremation as we have done with all of our dogs. When you feel a little stronger your vet will take you through the options available to you.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I am so so sorry, when I got to your post about Joshua having to be taken in again I was in tears, so when I got to what had happened after...... Im so sad for you and Joshua and Ferdie too, Life really is so crap and so unfair.

May your great big generous loving spirit run forever free in sunshine Joshua.


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## springfieldbean (Sep 13, 2010)

I've just read this with a thumping heart, praying that Joshua would get through this. I'm so, so sorry for you Newfiesmum. 

There's nothing to be said to help how sad and shocked you must be, but I just wanted to say how sorry I am and that I'm thinking of you.

There are many options such as scattering his ashes somewhere he loved maybe, but I'm sure the vet will wait and give you a bit more time to decide where you want him to go.

RIP Joshua xxx


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## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

So so sorry to hear this. I've been wishing so hard for a miracle for Joshua and to hear that he has gone is such sad sad news.

My heart goes out to you, I can't imagine what you must be feeling right now 

Rest in Peace Joshua and huge hugs for you, your family and Ferdie 
xxx


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear you lost Joshua 

You and your family (including Ferdi) are in my thoughts


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## LyndaDanny (Jan 23, 2011)

Oh no. I am so so sorry. Thinking of you xx


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Oh god no :sad: Im so very, very sorry. Sending huge hugs to you & Ferdi, run free in the sunshine at the bridge beautiful brave boy xxx


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Ive been following this thread not knowing what to say and just praying, I am so very very sorry.. I still dont really know what to say... R.I.P Joshua xxx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your kind wishes and condolences. My one consolation is that I didn't have to make the decision. I can't stop crying and everyone has been so kind.


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear this, have been following your thread. RIP your beautiful boy xx


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

I'm crying

I'm so so sorry, I truly am.

I think some good ferdie huggles are in order.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear about Joshua

R I P big lad run free at the bridge


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Cant believe this. I'm so so sorry
Run free big fellaxxxx


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Poor baby 

Run free at the bridge young Josh, free of pain forever. xxx


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm so sorry. If it brings you any comfort this happened with my Red too. Once he started bleeding internally my vet told me their circulation shuts down and they become woozy. There is no pain, she said, they just feel faint and sleepy, and gradually drift away.
It brings me comfort so I hope it does you, small help at this time I know 

Cry all you need and leave decisions until later.

Sh xx


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm so unbelievably sorry to read this. Really don't know what to say. At least he got to come home first before he collapsed.
Thinking you and Ferdie.

RIP Joshua


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

I know i havent said anything on this thread but wanted to say how sorry i am your newfies are my favorites on here and i am so shocked. Big hugs to you and Ferdi.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

OMG, I am so very sorry to hear this. I haven't been around today so couldn't check your thread until now 

Big hugs for you & Ferdie, if you need anything then please let me know xxx


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Sorry for loss such gorgeous boy


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## JohnM (Mar 26, 2010)

I am so very sad to hear about Joshua....such a young dog.......

He was very lucky to have such a good and caring owner, and you should never forget that you did all that you could. It;s something we all have to face eventually...but you are never prepared.

Time will reduce the pain slightly, but you will never forget.......

Remember the good times.....

Best Wishes

John


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## tiggerthumper (Apr 22, 2011)

I am so very sorry to hear Joshua didn't make it through his illness, RIP Joshua, my thoughts are with you newfiesmum xox


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

I'm only just catching up with this thread since yesterday because I've been at work and the news has hit me like a wrecking ball in the gut. . .I can hear my pulse in my ears. I am so sorry for your loss this is absolutely terrible news  bless you!! and bless poor Joshua! at least he was surrounded by love in his life

I'm sure all the furbabies we have all lost in the past have welcomed him with open paws (and wings, fins, hooves etc etc) and he is running free at rainbow bridge. . .you did everything within your power to help him and he knows that you tried your hardest and loved him with all your heart but he knows that even though it was too early it was his time to go xxxxxxxx


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

aww so very sorry to read the sad news about Joshua.  Big hugs to you xx

I know what a big part he was in your life and will be missed.

But he will live on here on PF as many of the dogs do -never forgotten. They become part of our lives here on PF too as we all share their moments and antics.

He may only have had a short life but he had a loving owner and his Pal Ferdie and you did your very best for him.

Run free at Rainbow Bridge Big boy xx


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

So So sorry for your loss


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## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm so so sorry to hear this , you and your family(including ferdie) are in my thoughts ,

sleep well joshua xxxx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Shazach said:


> I'm so sorry. If it brings you any comfort this happened with my Red too. Once he started bleeding internally my vet told me their circulation shuts down and they become woozy. There is no pain, she said, they just feel faint and sleepy, and gradually drift away.
> It brings me comfort so I hope it does you, small help at this time I know
> 
> Cry all you need and leave decisions until later.
> ...


Are you saying that by the time the bleeding starts nothing could have been done. I hope that is what you are saying, as I keep thinking what if.......?



JohnM said:


> I am so very sad to hear about Joshua....such a young dog.......
> 
> He was very lucky to have such a good and caring owner, and you should never forget that you did all that you could. It;s something we all have to face eventually...but you are never prepared.
> 
> ...


I have lost lots of old dogs and you are half prepared. Although it hurts, you know they have had a good, long life. But Joshua was only three years old and I used to read about people losing young dogs and think how awful that would be.

Thankyou for your good wishes.



Kinjilabs said:


> So So sorry for your loss


Thankyou. I know you have only recently lost Ted and I didn't read about it till later, so thoughts to you to.

The way I feel right now, I don't know how anyone can think "it is just a dog". I have a very dear friend who I have known for over forty years, and we were friends when her little girl died at the age of only four, but even she has been phoning all day. She knows what it is like to lose a loved pet as well, bless her.


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## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

I havent been on for a while so Joshua's loss has come as a complete shock. Sending you and Ferdie blessings and love. I just feel so, so sad. 

What a beautiful lad, Joshua run free with the wind and enjoy meeting all your friends at rainbow bridge. xxxxx


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Are you saying that by the time the bleeding starts nothing could have been done. I hope that is what you are saying, as I keep thinking what if.......?


I think they're trying to point out that he wouldn't have been in any pain at all and would have just been very sleepy and in that euphoric state you're in. . .you would know the feeling if you've ever fainted. . . it's like you don't care about anything you just feel sleepy and tired and don't feel anything physically

however. . .they wouldn't have been able to do anything anyway. . . the time between the start of the bleed and him passing away was extremely short (as you know) so they would never have been able to find the exact place where the bleed had started in time nevermind actually stop it. .. it would be basically impossible. . .so don't beat yourself up there are no "what ifs" you did everything you could possibly do for your boy and unfortunately he couldn't be saved

you also have to bare in mind that he was generally poorly (not eating) anyway so even if the bleed hadn't happened when it did he was going to end up suffering. . .so it's a blessing in disguise really
x x x x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

When he first got ill, he was still eating. I only remember that because it was how I got his antibiotics down him. This was a second bleed and obviously made him feel worse.

I can see that he was in the state you mention. When they carried him out on a stretcher he just lie there and let them, no interest whatsoever. I don't think he was even quite conscious to be honest.

It was only a couple of weeks or so ago I was saying how well he was doing. This is so sudden really, only just over two weeks and I thought he was recovering but instead he got worse.

I am trying not to dwell on it, but you can't help it can you?


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## JoJo74 (May 29, 2011)

I'm so so sorry for your loss. Be kind to yourself,you did what you could for your poor boy.

Run free Joshua, RIP.X


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> Are you saying that by the time the bleeding starts nothing could have been done. I hope that is what you are saying, as I keep thinking what if.......?


I don't honestly know. I'll tell you what happened in case it helps ease your mind.
We'd been to the vets that morning and the blood test showed a probable issue and I was told it was probable he had a tumour. He was booked for more tests the next day.
But Red being Red needed walking, so off we went. Long story short he lunged at a rabbit in the hedge and must have ruptured something, and then bless him managed to walk half way home, then lay down and could go no further. I carried him home and we were at the vets in I'd say 30mins, by then she told me it was already too late he was internally bleeding and his circulation was shutting down. 
Since he wasn't in any pain and like you say with Josh, seemed only semi conscious, we waited for my OH to arrive before the injection. We could have waited for him to go naturally without causing him any suffering, but I couldn't.

Certainly in our case I don't think there was any what ifs. It was very quick and fait accompli.
Please don't torture yourself, any single one of us could tell you you did your best by him.

Sorry to tell my story, I only do so in case it helps. Sh xx


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Devastating news. RIP lovely boy xxx.


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## I love springers (Dec 3, 2010)

So sorry for your loss...RIP Joshua x


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## kateh8888 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi,

I am new here but have just read this entire thread.

I am so sorry for your loss. All I can say is it seems your boy had an amazing owner and you would have made him very happy in the short time you had him. He was obviously meant to have you as you made life so great for him.

All my love xx


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

I'm so sorry to read this... it's truly heartbreaking, run free from pain Joshua.
He was blessed to have you as his owner, someone who cared unconditionally for him & gave him the very best. 
Big hugs to you & family. xxx


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

I've only just seen this terrible news about Joshua. My heart goes out to you on the loss of such a young dog.

Take comfort that you did everything you possibly could for him and that he's now no longer in pain.

I'm really, really sorry.


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## Lilimic (Jan 25, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your boy.  Big hugs to you.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I am so sorry to read this and my thoughts are with you.

You did everything you could for him its clear to see. It must be hard not to dwell on things you could have done differently but it will just drive you mad and make you upset... hindsight is a great thing but you did everything you could and gave him all that love in his life.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Have only just read the recent posts.

I'm so, so sorry he was such a lovely boy. He was also incredibly lucky to have you and Ferdie too.

Run free at the bridge Joshua x x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Everyone is so kind, but I think it will take me a very long time to get over this. I just came home, there was a dog blocking the front door and I immediately had to do look to see which one it was. Ferdie will move when you tell him to, Joshua always took a bit of persuading.

I looked up his symptoms on the internet and it seems likely that it was a tumour, something to do with the cells attacking infections too fast and saying that dogs with inflammatory conditions are prone to it. 

It doesn't do any good to dwell, I know, but I want to assure myself that nothing could have been done. I can't keep thinking about if only.......

Thanks everyone for your good wishes.


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

My little staffy i lost 2 yrs ago next month was fine came home 1 day fed him let him into garden he came in acting strange, within 10 mins he couldnt stand sent my oh out get car ready take him to vets his eyes glazed over he was screaming i held him in my arms , got to vets they think something ruptured inside was bleeding internally was pts all within an hour , ill never forget his face and that screaming noise he made im still not over him so Joshua will be in your heart forever take care of yourself we are all here for you (( ))


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

new westie owner said:


> My little staffy i lost 2 yrs ago next month was fine came home 1 day fed him let him into garden he came in acting strange, within 10 mins he couldnt stand sent my oh out get car ready take him to vets his eyes glazed over he was screaming i held him in my arms , got to vets they think something ruptured inside was bleeding internally was pts all within an hour , ill never forget his face and that screaming noise he made im still not over him so Joshua will be in your heart forever take care of yourself we are all here for you (( ))


Sounds like poor little boy was in pain. At least Joshua wasn't in pain, I don't even think his legs were hurting him. He just drifted away really and I didn't have to make that decision, thank God.


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Joshua is now free of pain handsome boy my little staffy never had days illness he was 14 yrs old i miss him every day  but its got easier so take care you have your other handsome boy to look after now he will miss joshua too thoughts are with you take care


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I am so terribly sorry for your loss: my heart goes out to you. How totally heart breaking. Run free, gorgeous boy.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry to have read the ending to this thread, I read all your post updates & was so hoping for a recovery, very sad to read the outcome  I hope you are okay, try not to dwell on 'what if's' too much, it sounds like there isn't much that could have been done, i'm very sorry for your news  xxx


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Hope you and Ferdie are okay, it's so hard as you can't tell him where Josh is and they do look for them. Takes a while to adjust but you'll get there and I feel your vet knew there wasn't much she could do for him that's why she didn't x ray, as it may have been too much and he'd have gone sooner.


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## lisaloo1 (Aug 8, 2011)

so sorry about your boy, he looked gorgeous, I dont think you should worry about "what if's" because you did your best. sending hugz xx


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Oh no! So very sorry. RIP Joshua. :crying:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I am oh so sorry to hear of your loss and I'm sure if it would help, we would each take a little of your pain to ease the burden. 

I used to feel the more I hurt, the stronger my love. It made the pain bearable.

Joshua couldnt have wished for a better Mummy. It's so hard when they are taken from us before their time - my heart goes out to you.

MY GRANDEST PUP

(author unknown)

I'll lend you for a little while
My grandest puo, He said.
For you to love while he's alive
And morn for when he's dead.
It may be one or twenty years,
Or days or months , you see.
But, will you, till I take him back,
Take care of him for me?
He'll bring her charms to gladden you,
And should his stay be brief,
You'll have treasured memories
As solace for your grief.
I cannot promise he will stay,
Since all from earth return.
But, there are lessons taught on earth
I want this pup to learn.
I've looked the wide world over
In my search for teachers true.
And from the throngs that crowd life's lanes,
With trust, I have selected you.
Now will you give him your total love?
Nor think the labor vain,
Nor hate Me when I come
To take him back again?
I know you'll give him tenderness
And love will bloom each day.
And for the happiness you've known! 
Forever grateful stay.
But should I come and call for him
Much sooner than you'd planned
You'll brave the bitter grief that comes
And someday you'll understand.
For though I'll call him home to Me
This promise to you I do make,
For all the love and care you gave
He'll wait for you, inside Heaven's Gate.

Lots of love to you and Ferdie xx


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## MissBexi (Dec 27, 2009)

Aww... Newfiesmum, I've only just caught up on this. And I am so sorry to hear of your loss of the gorgeous Joshua. 
He was such a well loved dog. And what a wonderful mumsy he had in you.
Hope you and Ferdie are ok.
R.I.P Joshua x x x x


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## Beau-a-saurus (Jan 26, 2011)

I have only just caught up on this thread and I am just so, so sorry to hear about Joshua.

My heart is going out to you and the family and I can only hope he is now running free from pain and playing with all the other pets that have been before.

Please don't worry about 'what if's' no one could have done more for him or loved him more and his life may have been short but it was good and the memory of him will kleave a pawprint on yours and many of our hearts.

Sending hugs x


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## hairydog (Feb 15, 2009)

So sorry for your loss, cant say anything else, because only time heals the pain you are feeling now, but many of us know how you are feeling, thinking of you.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Everyone has been so kind. My friend just dropped off some photos she took at the beginning of the year, and he looks so healthy. What went wrong? I just wish I knew.

Ferdie is feeling it now, I think. He was ok at first, but now he is very subdued and quiet. 

I do thank you all for your good wishes.


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