# Advocate or Milbemax?



## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I want to give Muttly a dose of ones of these, because of various risks he's been exposed too and he is eating grass.

Advocate for Lung/Heartworm 'spot on' or the Milbemax Tablets?

They have different active ingredients, so how do I know which one to use?

Muttly has in the past been violently sick on Bob Martin Worming tablets.
He has a tick and flea spot on every month which he is fine with and seems to work well.

Should I go for the spot on being his history with tablet sickness?


*Advocate:Active ingredient moxidectin and imidacloprid.*
*This spot-on treatment is licensed for both the treatment and prevention of lungworm. It should be applied once a month, every month.*

*Milbemax: Active ingredient milbemycin.*
*This is a tablet which is licensed for the prevention of lungworm when given once a month, and as a treatment it should be given weekly for four weeks*

Milbemax seems very cheap compared to Advocate? (I don't care about cost, but just wondering)


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I live in a low/medium risk area btw, but we visit a high risk area a few times a year where there are other dogs in the household, who are regularly wormed.

On this map we live in the 6-10 area, but visit a 21-49 area


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

I prefer to treat when it is needed rather than give medication if it isn't necessary.

Have you considered or looked into sending off faecal samples every 3 or 6 months? You can have them screened for lungworm as well as other intestinal worms, if anything shows in the results then you can take the results to your vet to get the best treatment. Our JRT hasn't required any worming for over 2 years and according to that map we live in an area with 21-49 reported cases of lungworm...


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks for asking this @Muttly because I have been wondering too. @Shikoku, if you sent off a decal sample every 3 months, couldn't your dog be 3 months infected? i.e. picked up a worm the day after you sent off the previous sample?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Does anyone actually know if the dogs that have succumbed to lung worm were treated or not beforehand?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Shikoku said:


> I prefer to treat when it is needed rather than give medication if it isn't necessary.
> 
> Have you considered or looked into sending off faecal samples every 3 or 6 months? You can have them screened for lungworm as well as other intestinal worms, if anything shows in the results then you can take the results to your vet to get the best treatment. Our JRT hasn't required any worming for over 2 years and according to that map we live in an area with 21-49 reported cases of lungworm...


Well I was about to send off for the wormcount thing plus the lungworm screen, when I noticed another thread where someone's pup had eaten (what I now know to be) snail eggs. I have seen these on the path in our local walk.

I don't routinely worm him at the mo for the same reason as you, but I'm feeling paranoid today about Lungworm. So wondering if he should have a one off treatment sooner than later.


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

Long post, sorry!  Hopefully it may be helpful though 



JoanneF said:


> Thanks for asking this @Muttly because I have been wondering too. @Shikoku, if you sent off a decal sample every 3 months, couldn't your dog be 3 months infected? i.e. picked up a worm the day after you sent off the previous sample?


This long post isn't all aimed at you but honestly I don't know? Obviously you could send samples every 6-8 weeks or however frequently you liked if you really wanted to be sure or had a snail, slug or frog eating dog. According to the wormcount website, testing every 3 months is apparently in line with the natural shedding patterns of most worms.

Lungworms would have to mature in the dog, then start producing eggs in order to be detected within the faecal sample which is apparently 45 to 57 days post infection according to an article from 2002 - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC339763/

In the article above one 5 year old dog was presented to the vet with a history of a persistent cough which vets tried to treat over several months but the dog continued to get worse, then a lungworm infection was considered and a faecal sample was sent off and _A. vasorum _and_ C. vulpis_ were both found in faeces using the Baermann technique. The dog was treated with ivermectin and faeces were negative on examination 2 week post-treatment. Clinical signs had greatly improved but the dog continued to suffer from a chronic cough. The dog was euthanised 14 months after the initial date of diagnosis due to right-sided congestive heart failure. No PM was done but that dog had two types of lungworm over a long period of time...

In the article linked above it does state 'The earliest possible diagnosis and treatment would likely improve the prognosis in dogs with angiostrongylosis.'​
Obviously if your dog had any symptoms of lungworm you would go to your vets straight away and mention that you are concerned about lungworm.
To diagnose lungworm they go off clinical signs and seem to use the Baermann technique because I think it is seen as one of the best techniques to currently to confirm lungworm diagnosis. The Baermann technique is essentially a faecal sample test in order to detect larvae and confirm diagnosis but it can also detect the larvae of other lungworm such as _C. vulpis_ which is a lungworm more associated with foxes but can still be transmitted to dogs who eat infected snails/slugs/frogs with L3 larvae. I believe there is also a blood test available now which looks for _A. vasorum_ specific antigen? _A. vasorum _is the more common lungworm within the UK but the blood test wouldn't detect _C. vulpis_ which your dog could come into contact with if they eat snails/slugs/frogs in an high fox area...

Taken from itsajungle.co.uk website which is a Bayer website, they make Adovcate, Drontal, Advantage etc... - http://www.itsajungle.co.uk/parasite-guide/lungworm/ (_A. vasorum)_

If treatment is initiated early enough, dogs can go on to make a full recovery
If left untreated, this parasite can be fatal to dogs
Another for _C. vulpis _lungworm - http://www.itsajungle.co.uk/parasite-guide/fox-lungworm/

_C. vulpis_ infections are rarely fatal in dogs

In another article... under Prognosis - http://vdt.ugent.be/sites/default/files/art80501.pdf
The majority of the dogs infected with _Angiostrongylus_ have an uneventful recovery, although this is dependent on the severity of the symptoms.
If mortality occurs, it is usually caused by severe (non-compensated) bleeding or respiratory failure. In referral hospitals, mortality rates of 10-15% have been reported (Chapman et al., 2004; Koch and Willesen, 2009)

Conclusion from the same article
Unfortunately, the diagnosis is not straightforward, and the Baermann testing of mixed faecal samples is still the gold standard. However, once the diagnosis is established, the treatment is rather simple with commercially available anthelmintic products. Clinicians' awareness of this illness and its various clinical signs is important because full recovery is possible if diagnosed at an early disease stage.​Apparently there have also been occasional cases where dogs have tested positive for lungworm despite being treated with Milbemax or Advocate. I assume it's most likely down to user error or incorrect dosage so if the dog's worming schedule has lapsed or the dog hasn't got the full dose or the incorrect dose for their size or if the spot-on hasn't been applied correctly or the tablet has been spit out unknowingly.

'We have seen occasional positive cases of lungworm despite the use of Milbemax or Advocate' http://forestvets.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Info-Lungworm-2014.pdf​
Personally I feel testing is more appropriate for my situation and dog because from what I've read, when caught early enough recovery and treatment seems fairly straightforward in otherwise healthy dogs. In order to confirm lungworm, vets seem to commonly use a faecal sample test, the Baermann technique and the technique also covers other species of lungworm, I think there are 3 types of lungworm in the UK - two are contracted by dogs eating infected by snails, slugs and frogs (_A. vasorum_ and _C. vulpis_) and another by direct contact with infected dogs although it is much rarer (_O. osleri_) and I'm not sure if Milbemax or Advocate cover all three?
Obviously if you are testing then you can ask your vet or whoever is dong the testing what technique they use to screen for lungworm larvae.

Another reason I test is worm resistance to wormers is common in horses, cattle and sheep. According to the British Veterinary Association, this is due mainly to the over-use of wormers as an automatic, preventative method of parasite control. Could the same happen with dogs and cats over time?

Whatever you do there is a risk, stepping outside your door everyday is a risk but you have to personally weigh up the pros and cons then decide for yourself what is best for your dog.

I have previously treated both my cats and dog with Milbemax without issues but now I prefer testing for peace of mind that they don't actually have a worm burden, since I have been testing I haven't needed to worm the dog or my indoor cats for over 2 years 

Edited to add -
Wormcount.com Lungworm screen.
"The tests we use are all the Gold Standard procedures recommended by the Royal Veterinary College. We use the Baermann's technique 24 hour screen and we require three consecutive days' sample for this screen.

We screen for all three lungworms found in the UK and if we observe larvae we will always analyse them to tell you which worm it is. Often the sample has larvae which are not lungworms. We will also analyse them and report on them."


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Thank you for that informative post Shikoku!

I thought straight away when I read that these 2 wormers need to be administered once a month! I mean surely they will just build up an immunity to the wormer, so it's then less effective, if at all!


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Thank you for that informative post Shikoku!
> 
> I thought straight away when I read that these 2 wormers need to be administered once a month! I mean surely they will just build up an immunity to the wormer, so it's then less effective, if at all!


I guess it would be when wormers are incorrectly used; wrong dose, wrongly applied, manufacturers instructions aren't followed etc... over a period of time, which would then allow some worms to survive and potentially build up an immunity to the drug over time? Although I'm not sure.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

@Shikoku, thanks for that really helpful reply. I'm not sure if you thought I might be offended in some way when you said the reply wasn't aimed at me, but not at all; I feel quite underinformed about parasites so thanks for explaining.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

So my Vet issues Prescriptions for £9 (wasn't expecting that tbh). I think I will give him Advocate for 3 months during the summer as I read the highest risk is when Mosquitos are around. 

But I think I might ask them or use wormcount to test him now. He is a poo eater and he eats grass. We had an awful lot of Mosquitos this year, due to the hot summer.
I may just be getting myself in a state tbh.


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

Muttly said:


> So my Vet issues Prescriptions for £9 (wasn't expecting that tbh). I think I will give him Advocate for 3 months during the summer as I read the highest risk is when Mosquitos are around.
> 
> But I think I might ask them or use wormcount to test him now. He is a poo eater and he eats grass. We had an awful lot of Mosquitos this year, due to the hot summer.
> I may just be getting myself in a state tbh.


Why are you worried about Mosquitoes? In some countries they carry _Dirofilaria immitis_ or dog heartworm but it isn't currently carried by mosquitoes in the UK. If it was then I would be using a licensed monthly preventive.

There are 3 types of lungworm found in the UK. All can be detected using the Baermann's technique once they are mature and start producing eggs.

_A. vasorum _- dogs are infected by eating snails, slugs and, or frogs infected with L3 larvae. The most common lungworm in the UK.
_C. vulpis_ - again dogs are infected by eating snails, slugs and, or frogs infected with L3 larvae, more common in high fox areas since it is more associated with foxes but dogs can also get it.
_O. osleri _- dogs become infected by being in direct contact with infected dogs although it is rare in the UK.
I'm not 100% sure which species Advoate and Milbemax offer prevention for, it might be all three or it might not so worth double checking with your vet.

Then you have the intestinal parasites - all can be detected through a faecal egg count again once the worms and mature and start producing eggs.

Roundworms (_Toxocara / Toxascaris_) - Can be passed on from the mother to pups, which is why it's so important to have a strict worming schedule for pregnant and lactating bitches as well as puppies but eggs can also be picked up from the soil, infected faeces or transport hosts i.e. if your dog is a hunter of small rodents.

Tapeworms (_Dipylidium_) - the most common species which is spread by fleas.
(_Taenia_) - which can be caught by dogs who scavenge while out walking, eats infected faeces or hosts_._
_Echinococcus granulosus_ which is found in sheep and livestock, dogs can become infected by eating or scavenging from infected meat, organs and, or carcass, apparently only currently found in central Wales and the Hebrides within the UK.
Tapeworms can also be caught by dogs eating infected raw meat, cooking kills eggs and larvae and so does freezing for at least 48 hours at temperatures below -10C.


Whipworms _(Trichuris) - _Rare in the UK but dogs can become infected by eating infected faeces/soil.

Hookworms (_Ancylostoma)_ - Again rare in the UK but dogs can become infected by being passed on from the mother, eating infected transport hosts such as small rodents, eating infected faeces, drinking from contaminated water while out on walks and the larvae can also penetrate through skin, normally the paws of the dog but they can also infect humans if you walk barefoot on contaminated soil or sand.
They can all be treated and, or prevented quite easily with the correct wormer from your vet 

Obviously dogs can also get fleas, ticks, mites and lice.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Just reading up Shikoku, they mention Mosquitos carry it, but didn't say it wasn't in UK. Thanks for that.

He drinks from puddles (I only let him drink from pavement puddles as I think that these are fresh, but this has proven that's not safe either). He eats grass, he eats poo, I stop him, but off lead he will still get some before I can stop him. He swims now too, but not often, he paddles more.

I like the Advocate because it is a Flea spot on too. So for the months he's having the Advocate, he won't need his usual flea spot on.

*For use in dogs suffering from, or at risk from, mixed parasitic infections: For the treatment and prevention of flea infestation (Ctenocephalides felis), treatment of ear mite infestation (Otodectes cynotis) and prevention of heartworm disease (L3 and L4 larvae of Dirofilaria immitis) and for the treatment of biting lice (Trichodectes canis), sarcoptic mange (caused by Sarcoptes scabiei var. canis), demodicosis (caused by Demodex canis), prevention of heartworm disease (L3 and L4 larvae of Dirofilaria immitis) and angiostrongylosis (L4 larvae and immature adults of Angiostrongylus vasorum). Treatment of Angiostrongylus vasorum and Crenosoma vulpis and treatment of infections with gastrointestinal nematodes (L4 larvae, immature adults and adults of Toxocara canis, Ancylostoma caninum, Uncinaria stenocephala and adults of Toxascaris leonina and Trichuris vulpis).*

I'm not planning on using this constantly, just a few times a year


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Just reading up Shikoku, they mention Mosquitos carry it, but didn't say it wasn't in UK. Thanks for that.
> 
> He drinks from puddles (I only let him drink from pavement puddles as I think that these are fresh, but this has proven that's not safe either). He eats grass, he eats poo, I stop him, but off lead he will still get some before I can stop him. He swims now too, but not often, he paddles more.
> 
> ...


That's fair enough, you do what you think is best for him and you  I'm sure you know this but when you're not using Advocate on a recommend worming schedule he would still be at risk of picking up worms and unless used routinely every month he will still be able to get lungworm too.

I don't use any preventive treatments for fleas, ticks or worms on the dog or cats  Just prefer to test and treat when necessary but I always keep a can of Indorex just in case I spot a flea, thankfully I've never seen any but they terrify me :Hilarious


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

How often do you test for worms?


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

Muttly said:


> How often do you test for worms?


I started every 3 months for the first year because I was paranoid about missing something but when nothing was coming back in the results, I moved to testing every 6 months this year and she hasn't required any treatment.
If anything ever showed on the results I would test after treatment and probably go back to temporarily testing every 3 months just to make sure the problem was resolved before going back to every 6 months.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Found this now:

*Is it important to test dogs for heartworm before applying advocate® ?

In endemic areas, advocate® may be safely administered to heartworm infected dogs. However, it is recommended that all dogs 6 months of age or over should be tested for patent heartworm infections before beginning prophylactic medication for the first time. Dogs that are heartworm positive should be treated appropriately.*

I will talk to my vet tomorrow when I go in for the Prescription.


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Found this now:
> 
> *Is it important to test dogs for heartworm before applying advocate® ?
> 
> ...


Heartworm is referring to _Dirofilaria immitis_. We don't have it in the UK, our mosquitoes don't carry it. Has he ever been outside of the UK? That's the only way he would contract dog heartworm aka _Dirofilaria immitis_ 

https://www.wormpatrol.co.uk/wormopedia/heartworm.php


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Shikoku said:


> Heartworm is referring to _Dirofilaria immitis_. We don't have it in the UK, our mosquitoes don't carry it. Has he ever been outside of the UK? That's the only way he would contract dog heartworm aka _Dirofilaria immitis_
> 
> https://www.wormpatrol.co.uk/wormopedia/heartworm.php


Thank you so much. What would I do without you today!!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

@Shikoku, do you realise you are becoming our go-to parasite guru (it may not sound glamourous but what a title)! Seriously I have found your posts really helpful, thanks a lot.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Thought this would help to be in this thread, it's a comparison of the different products to show what they treat:

https://www.advocate-spot-on.com/en/compare/dog.php


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks @Muttly - I thought I was going to have to set up a spreadsheet myself to do this!


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> @Shikoku, do you realise you are becoming our go-to parasite guru (it may not sound glamourous but what a title)! Seriously I have found your posts really helpful, thanks a lot.


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious I actually find parasites really interesting so enjoy reading about them :Bag



Muttly said:


> Thought this would help to be in this thread, it's a comparison of the different products to show what they treat:
> 
> https://www.advocate-spot-on.com/en/compare/dog.php


Just be aware because Advocate is a spot-on if your dog is a big swimmer, gets wet regularly or requires regular baths, it might not be as effective.

Advocate doesn't treat any tapeworms either so you would have to use it along side something like Droncit, which just targets tapeworm especially if your dog is a scavenger or poo eater. You would have to stagger treatment too so you don't potentially overdose on the active ingredients, so if you applied a spot-on treatment, you would have to wait 2 weeks before giving a worming tablet. - http://fieldsvets.co.uk/flea-and-wormer/4587686213


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Shikoku said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious I actually find parasites really interesting so enjoy reading about them :Bag
> 
> Just be aware because Advocate is a spot-on if your dog is a big swimmer, gets wet regularly or requires regular baths, it might not be as effective.
> 
> Advocate doesn't treat any tapeworms either so you would have to use it along side something like Droncit, which just targets tapeworm especially if your dog is a scavenger or poo eater. You would have to stagger treatment too so you don't potentially overdose on the active ingredients, so if you applied a spot-on treatment, you would have to wait 2 weeks before giving a worming tablet. - http://fieldsvets.co.uk/flea-and-wormer/4587686213


Grrr, why can;t they just do everything!! Muttly is a scavenger. Thank you again.

I guess this is why it's easier to test, then treat if and when and what you need to. Hmm.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

Just having a quick skim through so apologies if its already been mentioned. 

The difference between advocate and milbemax where lungworm is concerned - milbemax kills any lungworm that a dog may pick up, where as advocate kills them AND prevents reinfection


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, I may be super casual, but I worm with Milbemax twice a year. I only use Advocate if I see fleas. This once in seven years, when I found a few on Rosie a month ago.

I would not worm every month. I would not use Advocate every month.

I do feel some concern about putting chemicals on dogs every four weeks. Unless you live in a high risk area for ticks, I think it's overkill.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Thanks guys, I have decided to use Advocate every 3 months, as this takes care of the ticks and fleas which can be a problem here if not controlled in the summer months, so this way I am not using an extra chemical spot on for fleas.

Thanks for everyone's help


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Oh and I also had to give Muttly a Panacur treatment on Saturday. I was looking through his poo and saw in one poo (I checked four) there were these tiny tiny things that looked like grains of rice (so I immediately thought he had Tapeworm of course), he had been going at his rear end more than I think is normal. But I found nothing in his fur around that area.

However I'm still not 100% sure it was worms, because they were so tiny, less than 1mm and where I have read it say they are much bigger than this and will still be wriggling in fresh poo, which they weren't. But I wanted to be safe.

Since then he's left his rear end alone and I am poo checking still, nothing so far. Not sure if even works this fast but as I said, it may not have been worms anyway.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

Muttly said:


> Thanks guys, I have decided to use Advocate every 3 months, as this takes care of the ticks and fleas which can be a problem here if not controlled in the summer months, so this way I am not using an extra chemical spot on for fleas.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's help


Advocate gives no protection against ticks and is monthly for flea protection. Or do you mean Bravecto?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Little P said:


> Advocate gives no protection against ticks.


That's true, thank you. I forgot that. I have read so many of these things now.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

Muttly said:


> That's true, thank you. I forgot that. I have read so many of these things now.


There's also better tapeworm treatments than panacur too. Panacur isn't effective against Dipylidium caninum.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Little P said:


> There's also better tapeworm treatments than panacur too. Panacur isn't effective against Dipylidium caninum.


That was what I had in the cupboard at the weekend. I did notice that it didn't do all Tapeworms and thought I would see if it works or not. As I said not totally sure he had them.

Why can't one thing just do it all! I really don;t want loads of chemicals in him.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Muttly said:


> Why can't one thing just do it all!


Exactly. I do wonder why Advocate doesn't protect against ticks - there are combined tick and flea products so you would think that could do it


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

Muttly said:


> That was what I had in the cupboard at the weekend. I did notice that it didn't do all Tapeworms and thought I would see if it works or not. As I said not totally sure he had them.
> 
> Why can't one thing just do it all! I really don;t want loads of chemicals in him.


One thing would still use all the same "chemicals".

I use advocate monthly, milbemax 3 monthly and 2 doses of bravecto over tick season but only added that since we moved. He never had a tick for 13 years until we moved.

I want my dog protected against the things that he is at risk of. He will scavenge given the chance hence worming. Ticks are a new risk hence bravecto. Lungworm is a big risk as he does pick up slugs and snails (and piles them up and rolls on them  ) and flea coverage is needed because he spends 50 hours a week in a veterinary surgery!


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

@Muttly If testing and treating isn't for you then have you looked into Seresto collars? They provide up to 8 months protection against fleas and ticks so you could just use one of those.
Then worm with Milbemax, that will cover you for tapeworms, roundworms, hookworms and whipworms if used every 3 months or if used monthly it will also prevent lungworm.

That will pretty much cover everything with only two products


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

Shikoku said:


> @Muttly If testing and treating isn't for you then have you looked into Seresto collars? They provide 8 months protection against fleas and ticks so you could just use one of those.
> Then worm with Milbemax, that will cover you for tapeworms, roundworms, hookworms and whipworms if used every 3 months or if used monthly it will also prevent lungworm.
> 
> That will pretty much cover everything with only two products


 Milbemax doesn't _prevent_ lungworm, it _treats_ it.

If your dog had lungworm and you gave milbemax, it would kill the lungworm. There's then nothing stopping your dog picking up lungworm again 48 hours later once the milbemax is out of your dogs system. If using milbemax as a "preventative" against lungworm, it's recommended to dose monthly in order to interrupt the lungworm lifecycle sufficiently frequently that it doesn't cause a problem.

Advocate gives lasting protection against lungworm, and therefore prevents.


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## Shikoku (Dec 16, 2013)

Little P said:


> Milbemax doesn't _prevent_ lungworm, it _treats_ it.
> 
> If your dog had lungworm and you gave milbemax, it would kill the lungworm. There's then nothing stopping your dog picking up lungworm again 48 hours later once the milbemax is out of your dogs system. If using milbemax as a "preventative" against lungworm, it's recommended to dose monthly in order to interrupt the lungworm lifecycle sufficiently frequently that it doesn't cause a problem.
> 
> Advocate gives lasting protection against lungworm, and therefore prevents.


Sorry my mistake  I'm not very familiar with all the treatments vs preventives :Bag


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I use Advocate I try to be fairly religious in applying it monthly in the warmer months but not so much through the winter, but I do live in a medium/high risk lungworm area and we do have lots and lots of slugs about :Yuck I know I should also treat them with Drontal for tapeworms but it always seem to make them ver sick so I haven't this year, but I think or hope that I would notice if they had tapeworm, I haven't wormed my cats for years but they are indoor with access to an outdoor run and I haven't deflea'd them at all this year as the dogs are clear and I haven't seen any fleas on the cats, I have seen a few fleas and ticks on the dogs but that is because they have been furtling in the hedges where the pigeons hang out and nest but they really stand out against the white on them so are easily picked off and disposed off.

Defleaing, deworming, deticking and delungworming seems to have gotten very complicated over the last few years, I wish someone would come up with a magic pill/spot on that did everything safely and easily. I long for the days of a squirt of Nuvan Top and a worm pill.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I don't see the logic in applying a monthly spot-on every three months if you're trying to prevent fleas. To me, it's all or nothing: treating every third month leaves two untreated months during which fleas can reproduce unhindered. That's the very definition of unnecessary chemicals to me, seeing as you're putting them on your pet but not really achieving anything by doing so.

Fleas wise, I advise giving the spot on monthly or not at all. Worms is obviously a different situation, as discussed in this thread.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I don't see the logic in applying a monthly spot-on every three months if you're trying to prevent fleas. To me, it's all or nothing: treating every third month leaves two untreated months during which fleas can reproduce unhindered. That's the very definition of unnecessary chemicals to me, seeing as you're putting them on your pet but not really achieving anything by doing so.
> 
> Fleas wise, I advise giving the spot on monthly or not at all. Worms is obviously a different situation, as discussed in this thread.


Right, I have 6 months Advocate treatment on the way. I usually use a tick and flea spot on in summer every month, not really in winter as I never see them on him then. But then I was unaware that fleas are worm hosts!

What would you advise CK? If I continue to use my flea and tick spot on every month, then the Advocate for the worms (which was the reason for it, the flea part was a just a bonus) every 3 months? Or would that be an overdose on flea prevention? The flea spot on I use is a treatment rather than a prevention it says.

Do they say Advocate every month just because of the flea part?

Oh, I live in an area of 6-10 cases of lungworm found and I have only seen fleas on him in summer (or when going to OH relative's house  )
I have only ever found one tick on him (which hadn't attached) but that was from Sandringham, which I stay away from now.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Advocate is advised monthly for fleas, and also for lungworm prevention.

For roundworm, it's dependent on lifestyle. Dogs who eat raw meat or pick up random dead wildlife or hunt may benefit from worming monthly. Those who don't probably need doing much less often, even as infrequently as every six months.

But obviously if you're applying Advocate monthly for other parasites then you will cover roundworm anyway.


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