# Dogs trained to attack & kill Wolves in Wisconsin



## noushka05

please help stop this cruelty.

Demand That Wisconsin Eliminates DEVASTATING Act 169 Section 2B1 | PAW: Protect America's Wolves | causes.com

last few days to voice you protest, please sign and bombard [email protected] asking them Not to use Dogs to savage Wolves

"DNR wants to allow hounders to "train" their dogs on wolves with no restrictions right through the breeding, denning, and birthing seasons until the end of March. When pregnant females need to be preparing for the birth of their litters they will be harassed or even attacked by unlimited packs of vicious dogs. The fine print reads that they can "only" use packs of "six" dogs at a time to "train"but that they can switch out to new packs of dogs if the original pack gets tired. So essentially unlimited dogs will be allowed to go after wolves during this very sensitive time. The DNR even has the gall to call this a "reasonable fair-chase restriction." This is outrageous! In less than a month Wisconsin may be hunting and killing wolves/pregnant wolves/and possibly wolf cubs. To read more about this recent item added to the killer wish list of Act 169 Section 2B1 please check out this very informative article

Re-gaurding this statement: "Hunters will be paid up to $2,500 for each dog injured or killed by the wolf it is pursuing." The DNR recently decided not to compensate for dogs injured while pursuing wolves, but don't let them fool you! Hunters can still claim the money for dogs injured/killed by other predators and there's nothing stopping hunters from lying about how their dogs were hurt!

238 wolves were killed this hunting season, that alone is 30% of the Wisconsin wolf populationand doesn't include natural and unreported illegal deaths.

Please sign in support of RETRACTING DNR ACT 169 Section 2.B.1.!! And please sign in support of the statement that "we the undersigned will boycott Wisconsin. We vow never to visit, vacation at, or support Wisconsin in anyway until action against DNR's Act 169 Section 2.B.1. is taken!"

The state of Wisconsin paid $214,794 for wolf depredation in 2012. How many families in Wisconsin will sit in wait for emergency housing, food, or medical care while the DNR wastes their money on a depredation program for a species that literally only just started to recover in numbers?


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## ClaireandDaisy

It`s not that I don`t care... it`s that since Americans won`t even consider changing the law to lessen the chance of their own children being shot - I can`t imagine anything influencing the demented ******** that seem to run the country.


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## noushka05

ClaireandDaisy said:


> It`s not that I don`t care... it`s that since Americans won`t even consider changing the law to lessen the chance of their own children being shot - I can`t imagine anything influencing the demented ******** that seem to run the country.


Oh know the moronic ******** are unlikely to listen, but surely its better to try & fail then sit back & do nothing? I think this is one of the greates problems with the world, people are so apathetic or just plain defeatest...if we dont try theres no hope at all.... Power to the people an all that lol

.


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## Kitty_pig

I have signed dont know what good it will do being in the uk but as you say if we dont try they will definitely die. Good luck x


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## Zaros

In truth there is only one guaranteed method of protecting and conserving the natural world and that is achieved by reducing the numbers of man. 

How this could be engineered is anyone's guess but there are several methods I can think of and one in particular was probably dreamed up many, many years ago by the military.

However, there's nothing like a good old fashioned ravaging pandemic to cull the numbers of the human species by their millions. 

It's natural, it's efficient and practices no discrimination. We are at the mercy of the little things we cannot see. Micro-organisms. We should remember we are here because they allow us to be.

Perhaps we should regard this fact a little more closely than we do, be humbled and extend that regard to the other living creatures on this planet. 

Undoubtedly our holocaust will come, be it man made or something mother nature had in store for us, and as catastrophic and as frightening as that may sound, there is consolation; the real beauty of this world will be able to thrive because there will be less ugliness in it.


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## kateh8888

Have signed but as others have said, the outlook isn't great which is heartbreaking.


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## Yourgifts Ourgifts

Signed...:thumbup1:


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## noushka05

thanks so much to everyone whos taken the time to sign



Zaros said:


> In truth there is only one guaranteed method of protecting and conserving the natural world and that is achieved by reducing the numbers of man.
> 
> How this could be engineered is anyone's guess but there are several methods I can think of and one in particular was probably dreamed up many, many years ago by the military.
> 
> However, there's nothing like a good old fashioned ravaging pandemic to cull the numbers of the human species by their millions.
> 
> It's natural, it's efficient and practices no discrimination. We are at the mercy of the little things we cannot see. Micro-organisms. We should remember we are here because they allow us to be.
> 
> Perhaps we should regard this fact a little more closely than we do, be humbled and extend that regard to the other living creatures on this planet.
> 
> Undoubtedly our holocaust will come, be it man made or something mother nature had in store for us, and as catastrophic and as frightening as that may sound, there is consolation; the real beauty of this world will be able to thrive because there will be less ugliness in it.


Brilliant post Zaros.

Ive come to the conclusion that we really are going to lose many species because not enough people care about them...and some people are plain rotton without an ounce of compassion for animals...lets hope a good pandemic sees them off first

.


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## rsenpai

noushka05 said:


> Oh know the moronic ******** are unlikely to listen, but surely its better to try & fail then sit back & do nothing? I think this is one of the greates problems with the world, people are so apathetic or just plain defeatest...if we dont try theres no hope at all.... Power to the people an all that lol
> 
> .


moronic ********, huh? apathetic? Your name calling is what is wrong with the world, friend.


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## Zaros

rsenpai said:


> moronic ********, huh? apathetic? Your name calling is what is wrong with the world, friend.


Whoa!

Did you come here to prove a point or just to cause trouble? :skep:


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## noushka05

Zaros said:


> Whoa!
> 
> Did you come here to prove a point or just to cause trouble? :skep:


Oh most definately to cause trouble lol... its the troll off another forum stalking me, the saddo.

.


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## Zaros

noushka05 said:


> Oh most definately to cause trouble lol... its the troll off another forum stalking me, the saddo.
> 
> .


Tis nought but envy Noush'

One of the seven deadly sins which flounders in the shallow end of the gene pool along with sloth.


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## tincan

rsenpai said:


> moronic ********, huh? apathetic? Your name calling is what is wrong with the world, friend.


....

Oh my are you little put out ????

******** are prevelant worldwide , please go and educate yourself as to the meaning.....

Noushk you do a mighty fine job keep it up .... i for one love your informative posts .... 
and yep ive been around ******** ..... pretty bloody scary mentality ....

stuff em hun .....


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## noushka05

Zaros said:


> Tis nought but envy Noush'
> 
> One of the seven deadly sins which flounders in the shallow end of the gene pool along with sloth.


Yes, I fear you could well be right Zaros



tincan said:


> ....
> 
> Oh my are you little put out ????
> 
> ******** are prevelant worldwide , please go and educate yourself as to the meaning.....
> 
> Noushk you do a mighty fine job keep it up .... i for one love your informative posts ....
> and yep ive been around ******** ..... pretty bloody scary mentality ....
> 
> stuff em hun .....


Thanks for putting my little 'friend' straight about ********, not that they listen to facts mind lol

Tincan, Im actually really touched by this post & the nice things you said.. thank you. x

,


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## Guest

As an American (albeit raised abroad) I am not digging the first few posts... 
But as an open minded person I also know that Americans don't have a monopoly on cruel and moronic behavior however much others might like to think so 

I'm against hunting wolves, I'm actually against hunting in general (unless you eat and use what you hunt), but I am not against dogs (or donkeys or llamas) protecting livestock. 

I also find it amazingly arrogant to assume it is our job as humans to protect the planet. Hundreds of species go extinct every single day irregardless of our intervention or involvement. The idea that *we* glorious humans are not only the worst blight on the planet, but also it's only hope for survival is really ludicrous. 

The planet we call earth was here LONG before any habitable life, and will be here long after we humans and other species become extinct. We're really not all that  
In fact, if you look at the bigger picture and the greater historical record, you'll see that humans are pretty hugely INsignificant in the greater scheme of things. 

Finally, though I do indeed feel strongly about hunting wolves, an animal *I* happen to find very attractive, I also realize that my preferences and sensibilities are not the only ones worth considering.


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## noushka05

ouesi said:


> As an American (albeit raised abroad) I am not digging the first few posts...
> But as an open minded person I also know that Americans don't have a monopoly on cruel and moronic behavior however much others might like to think so
> 
> I'm against hunting wolves, I'm actually against hunting in general (unless you eat and use what you hunt), but I am not against dogs (or donkeys or llamas) protecting livestock.
> 
> I also find it amazingly arrogant to assume it is our job as humans to protect the planet. Hundreds of species go extinct every single day irregardless of our intervention or involvement. The idea that *we* glorious humans are not only the worst blight on the planet, but also it's only hope for survival is really ludicrous.
> 
> The planet we call earth was here LONG before any habitable life, and will be here long after we humans and other species become extinct. We're really not all that
> In fact, if you look at the bigger picture and the greater historical record, you'll see that humans are pretty hugely INsignificant in the greater scheme of things.
> 
> Finally, though I do indeed feel strongly about hunting wolves, an animal *I* happen to find very attractive, I also realize that my preferences and sensibilities are not the only ones worth considering.


I dont think anyone does think that all Americans have the monopoly on cruel behaviour,...there are plenty of '********' right here in the UK.

There is no rhyme,reason ,sound science to be killing these wolves, they have restored a broken eco system, have harmed no one, so no sensible reason to want to brutally annihilate them...only age old prejudice and a spiteful hatred of them. These animals have as much a right to live as we do.

we may well be insignificant but we share this planet with a miriad of other creatures...and its human pressure that is accelerating a mass of extinctions ...its estimated that 30,000 species per year are being driven to extinction due to us...i think thats truely shocking & disturbing...it should be everyones priority to stop this happening...not least because its our fault.

.


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## Guest

ClaireandDaisy said:


> It`s not that I don`t care... it`s that since Americans won`t even consider changing the law to lessen the chance of their own children being shot - I can`t imagine anything influencing the demented ******** that seem to run the country.





noushka05 said:


> Oh know the moronic ******** are unlikely to listen, but surely its better to try & fail then sit back & do nothing? I think this is one of the greates problems with the world, people are so apathetic or just plain defeatest...if we dont try theres no hope at all.... Power to the people an all that lol





noushka05 said:


> I dont think anyone does think that all Americans have the monopoly on cruel behaviour,...there are plenty of '********' right here in the UK.


Comments like the two above aren't going to earn you many American allies, just sayin' 



noushka05 said:


> There is no rhyme,reason ,sound science to be killing these wolves, they have restored a broken eco system, have harmed no one, so no sensible reason to want to brutally annihilate them...only age old prejudice and a spiteful hatred of them. These animals have as much a right to live as we do.


Since when do ANY of us do only that which has rhyme, reason or sound science behind it?
There's no sound science that says signing a petition is going to make a lick of difference to the plight of the wolves!



noushka05 said:


> we may well be insignificant but we share this planet with a miriad of other creatures...and its human pressure that is accelerating a mass of extinctions ...its estimated that 30,000 species per year are being driven to extinction due to us...i think thats truely shocking & disturbing...it should be everyones priority to stop this happening...not least because its our fault.
> 
> .


Eh... I tend to think the real reason we freak out about extinctions is because deep down we know we're next and we think if we can prevent it happening to other animals we can prevent it happening to ourselves.
Of course it does sound much more noble to say you want to save a majestic creature like a wolf, but in the end, this planet is ever-changing and human intervention - favorable or otherwise - is wholly insignificant when you look at the bigger picture.

Wooly mammoths are extinct, saber tooth tigers are extinct, there was a huge, mass extinction of dinosaurs and other reptiles that we humans had absolutely nothing to do with, yet somehow the planet survived.

Our planet has allowed for life, our planet is in charge of what life survives or not, to think that insignificant humans are in charge of mass extinctions is human arrogance at it's best.

Peter Ward: Earth&#39;s mass extinctions - YouTube


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## noushka05

[


> QUOTE=ouesi;1062730334]Comments like the two above aren't going to earn you many American allies, just sayin'


You'll perhaps be surprised to know then that all the American wolf advocates call them the same....and i dont think for one moment that this would change the mind of someone who cares about wolves...or dogs, joining this cause.



> Since when do ANY of us do only that which has rhyme, reason or sound science behind it?
> There's no sound science that says signing a petition is going to make a lick of difference to the plight of the wolves!


But it might...& thats all we've got.



> Eh... I tend to think the real reason we freak out about extinctions is because deep down we know we're next and we think if we can prevent it happening to other animals we can prevent it happening to ourselves.
> Of course it does sound much more noble to say you want to save a majestic creature like a wolf, but in the end, this planet is ever-changing and human intervention - favorable or otherwise - is wholly insignificant when you look at the bigger picture.


Hard as it may be for you to fathom some people arent that selfish. They actually want to save wildlife for wildlifes sake simply because they care about it with a passion & when you love wild animals you cant help but form a parallel interest in conservation.



> Wooly mammoths are extinct, saber tooth tigers are extinct, there was a huge, mass extinction of dinosaurs and other reptiles
> that we humans had absolutely nothing to do with, yet somehow the planet survived.


Exactly! all other mass extinctions have been natural events....this wave of mass extinctions is the only time in the earths history that the cause has been down to One species! 



> Our planet has allowed for life, our planet is in charge of what life survives or not, to think that insignificant humans are in charge of mass extinctions is human arrogance at it's best.


How can you say our planet is in charge of what life survives or not? Wow thats such a cop out!...was it the planets fault that 5 billion passenger pigeon didnt survive then?  or that all 5 species of rhino are on the brink? etc recurring!!

even the UN are asking us to care about the bio diversity we are fast destroying!

All Society Stands to Lose from Biodiversity Mass Extinction, Warns Secretary-General in Message for Launch of United Nations Decade


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## Guest

I take it you didn't watch the TED talk I posted?

It's okay, I shouldn't have posted on your thread. I'm not trying to change your mind about anything really... I admire wolves, don't want to see them hunted, just object to the anti-American attitude so I got sucked in to the thread.

FWIW, I don't think it's a cop-out at all to say our planet is in charge, not us. Do you *really* think humans are more powerful than the universe?

George Carlin - Saving the Planet - YouTube


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## noushka05

ouesi said:


> I take it you didn't watch the TED talk I posted?
> 
> It's okay, I shouldn't have posted on your thread. I'm not trying to change your mind about anything really... I admire wolves, don't want to see them hunted, just object to the anti-American attitude so I got sucked in to the thread.
> 
> FWIW, I don't think it's a cop-out at all to say our planet is in charge, not us. Do you *really* think humans are more powerful than the universe?
> 
> George Carlin - Saving the Planet - YouTube


Apologies if you were offended by that title but it really doesnt encompass decent Americans nor only Americans

Well I do think its a cop out, ..we're in charge of our own actions after all...if we wipe out a species we cant say.. oh well, its not our fault its the planets, can we? ...Of course i dont think humans are more powerful than the universe...likewise i dont blame the universe for the depredation of the natural world when i know its man.

Can I ask you then..do you honestly think we should just let the poachers get on with wiping out all the elephants & rhinos,for example, without putting up a fight to save them?

Ive tried to play the videos but without success im afraid, my laptops really slow and struggling tonight ...i think ive worn it out! lol


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## Guest

noushka05 said:


> Apologies if you were offended by that title but it really doesnt encompass decent Americans nor only Americans
> 
> Well I do think its a cop out, ..we're in charge of our own actions after all...if we wipe out a species we cant say.. oh well, its not our fault its the planets, can we? ...Of course i dont think humans are more powerful than the universe...likewise i dont blame the universe for the depredation of the natural world when i know its man.


I just think it's a bit over self-important to take full credit for something that has been happening in cycles on this planet for millennia. The earth is 4.5 billion years old. Life has existed on this planet for about 3.5 billion years, humans have existed for about 200 thousand years. We're a minuscule dot in the timeline of life on earth. The number of life forms that have lived, evolved, and died out before our time and during our time without any influence from us is astounding. So yeah, to think we have a significant role in destroying or saving life forms on this planet is a bit arrogant in my view. I just don't think that in the greater scheme of things humans - or elephants and rhinos and wolves - are *that* important.



noushka05 said:


> Can I ask you then..do you honestly think we should just let the poachers get on with wiping out all the elephants & rhinos,for example, without putting up a fight to save them?


Don't get me wrong, I think caring about animals is indeed an important part of being a compassionate human being, and I hope I am instilling that compassion in my own children. 
However, I also think "save the *insert noble, or fuzzy animal du jour*" campaigns are a luxury afforded to those sitting in comfortable, climate controlled houses in first world countries with reliable internet access.

If I were an elephant poacher in Cameroon for example, I don't think I would have the emotional energy to spare on caring whether or not the elephants survived as a species. I think I would be more worried about feeding my family and keeping them healthy and safe.

I think there are a lot of things worth fighting for, and I respect anyone with the passion and determination to try and change things. 
I also respect that not all of us are going to be equally passionate about the same things - and I'm okay with that


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## tincan

I will add to this tomorrow when iv'e had a goodnights sleep  

AH the Universe .... ultimately infinitive .... Mankind/Animals unfortunately Not  ..... we reap what we sow ,,,, therefore imo both mankinds future and our fauna and flora's , lay within ours and our childrens hands ... we have a lot to answer for


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## noushka05

[


> QUOTE=ouesi;1062730550]I just think it's a bit over self-important to take full credit for something that has been happening in cycles on this planet for millennia. The earth is 4.5 billion years old. Life has existed on this planet for about 3.5 billion years, humans have existed for about 200 thousand years. We're a minuscule dot in the timeline of life on earth. The number of life forms that have lived, evolved, and died out before our time and during our time without any influence from us is astounding. So yeah, to think we have a significant role in destroying or saving life forms on this planet is a bit arrogant in my view. I just don't think that in the greater scheme of things humans - or elephants and rhinos and wolves - are *that* important.


Well of course Extinctons have always occured...but naturally ... species go down an evolutionary cul de sac they cant evolve and adapt in time... they die out..its 'natural selection'... There has Never been a single species responsible for a mass of extinctions before...not in the whole of earths history, so to think we DONT have a significant role in destroying life forms is absolutely Astounding

Our species will go extinct one day too.. So I presume you extend this train of thought to us humans then?, if a set starts systematically wiping us out before our time you'd just sit back & accept it because the 'planets in charge of what survives', right? not to, really would be the height of self importance 



> Don't get me wrong, I think caring about animals is indeed an important part of being a compassionate human being, and I hope I am instilling that compassion in my own children.
> .


...............................................



> If I were an elephant poacher in Cameroon for example, I don't think I would have the emotional energy to spare on caring whether or not the elephants survived as a species. I think I would be more worried about feeding my family and keeping them healthy and safe.


There are many conservation organisations who educate locals about their precious & endangered wildlife, they put money into poor communities, employ & train the local people to monitor the animals, train them as field rangers etc, ex poachers often paid to protect the animal they once killed...you think this is arrogant?  To protect an 'umbrella' species you protect the whole environment, that benefits not only the whole eco system but local humans aswell...the planets 'resources' are finite, when the last animal has been poached how will the poacher feed his family then? 



> I think there are a lot of things worth fighting for, and I respect anyone with the passion and determination to try and change things.
> I also respect that not all of us are going to be equally passionate about the same things - and I'm okay with that


God im seriously depressed now.lol


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## Guest

noushka05 said:


> So I presume you extend this train of thought to us humans then?, if a set starts systematically wiping us out before our time you'd just sit back & accept it because the 'planets in charge of what survives', right?


Yes, and yes.

How do you know it's "before our time"? 
WE are an evolutionary cul de sac too! Just like the animals we're so nobly trying to save. We're ALL going to go extinct. 
10 thousand years ago, over half the species over 100 pounds body weight went extinct - without any help or hindrance from humans. 
That we know of, there have been 5 mass extinctions on this planet, scientists believe we are entering the 6th. Certainly humans are helping speed up the process, but we can't take full credit for causing it, nor should we be so self-important to think we can prevent a natural cycle of life on this planet.

We humans are going extinct.

Here's a quote from the George Carlin video you couldn't see (language caution):


> Were so self-important. Everybodys going to save something now. Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails. And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. Save the planet, we dont even know how to take care of ourselves yet. Im tired of this ****. Im tired of f-ing Earth Day. Im tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is that there arent enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for Volvos. Besides, environmentalists dont give a **** about the planet. Not in the abstract they dont. You know what theyre interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. Theyre worried that some day in the future they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesnt impress me.
> 
> The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles  hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages  And we think some plastic bags and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet isnt going anywhere. WE are!
> 
> Were going away. Pack your ****, folks. Were going away. And we wont leave much of a trace, either. Maybe a little Styrofoam  The planetll be here and well be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planetll shake us off like a bad case of fleas.
> 
> The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after were gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, cause thats what it does. Its a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed. And if its true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesnt share our prejudice toward plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didnt know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, Why are we here?
> 
> Plastic *******.





noushka05 said:


> There are many conservation organisations who educate locals about their precious & endangered wildlife, they put money into poor communities, employ & train the local people to monitor the animals, train them as field rangers etc, ex poachers often paid to protect the animal they once killed...you think this is arrogant?


Not at all. I think a holistic approach to conservations is far more effective and far less arrogant than signing a petition from my comfy sofa while making judgmental generalizations about an entire people 

Our time here is short. This is just me, but I would rather put time in to understanding and compassion of ALL species, including humans, than judgements and criticisms. A lot of these "save the ___" campaigns are nothing but ego stroking for the privileged few who have the time and resources to care about the cute furry animal continents away, wholly lacking in understanding for the entire issue, and very critical and judgmental of the humans involved.

Look how quickly this thread turned in to "moronic ******** who won't listen". Would YOU listen if you were immediately judged as a moronic ******* without any attempt to get to know who you are as a person? Do you even KNOW any Wisconsinites who support wolf hunts? Have you had conversations with them and genuinely listened and attempted to understand their point of view?

Yeah humans can really suck sometimes, but that doesn't make them any less deserving of compassion. JMO 

For that matter, have you ever watched a pack of wolves take down an elk calf? It's not pretty, it's not quick and painless, and it's very traumatic to both the calf that is often eaten before it's dead, and the mother left with bulging udders painfully calling to her lost child.

Where is your "save the Elk" petition?

I'm not saying wolves shouldn't hunt elk BTW, I'm simply pointing out that man is not the only cruel one here, and the issue is usually a lot less black and white than we like to make it out to be.

Let me ask you this. Would you be willing to take some of those wolves in Wisconsin that you're trying to save, and have them introduced to the British Isles? There certainly used to be numerous wolves in England, why not re-introduce them?


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## fredoi2

It`s not that I don`t care


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## sskmick

The way I see it, is that there is a difference between the ever changing world ie the snow caps melting causing a threat of extinction for the Polar Bear (natural evolution or whatever you want to call it - nature) and man deliberately over fishing to the point of almost extinction of a variety of marine life and hunting to the extreme causing extinction of species, this not natures way of dwindling numbers.

The other cause of wildlife being driven to extinction by man is clearing areas wildlife habitats. This isn't nature or natural, the demise of these animals is by mans own hand, which is wrong imo.

I don't want to be eaten by a croc, or mauld by a bear and don't want them as neighbours so I don't choose to live among them.

imo all blood sports should be banned Worldwide, we are supposed to be civilised not savages.


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## noushka05

ouesi said:


> Yes, and yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okay lets just get this straight because im strugging to grasp your logic here....someone decides to commit genocide in Your neighbourhood...they wipe out Your community,kill Your loved ones..and you accept this because you think its the planets doing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know it's "before our time"?
> WE are an evolutionary cul de sac too! Just like the animals we're so nobly trying to save. We're ALL going to go extinct.
> 10 thousand years ago, over half the species over 100 pounds body weight went extinct - without any help or hindrance from humans.
> That we know of, there have been 5 mass extinctions on this planet, scientists believe we are entering the 6th. Certainly humans are helping speed up the process, but we can't take full credit for causing it, nor should we be so self-important to think we can prevent a natural cycle of life on this planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you even know what an evolutionary cul de sac means? we certainly havent gone down one.(.yet)... we are one of the most successful, adaptable species on the planet
> So beside human activity helping speed up the process, do tell what the 'Main' factor for this latest wave of mass of extinctions is then? The other 5 were ALL natural catastrophies.
> 
> heres what Nat geo says about the latest..........
> 
> Today, many scientists think the evidence indicates a sixth mass extinction is under way. The blame for this one, perhaps the fastest in Earth's history, falls firmly on the shoulders of humans. By the year 2100, human activities such as pollution, land clearing, and overfishing may have driven more than half of the world's marine and land species to extinction.
> 
> Mass Extinction, Mass Die-Off Information, Prehistoric Facts -- National Geographic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We humans are going extinct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sooner the better...if this is how they think
> 
> Here's a quote from the George Carlin video you couldn't see (language caution):
> 
> christ, lets just kill everything off before we die out shall we!....jeezus what a horrible selfish species we are! .....No doubt this clown, whoever he is,... is also a climate change sceptic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all I think a holistic approach to conservations is far more effective and far less arrogant than signing a petition from my comfy sofa while making judgmental generalizations about an entire people ot at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> people sign petitions out of desperation...ive written letters, lost count of the emails ivr sent, skint myself donating money to try to save these animals, theres not much more i can do here in the UK..I dont make generalizations about an entire people either. I have communicated with many lovely,decent people in those wolf hostile states who are battling their hardest to save these animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our time here is short. This is just me, but I would rather put time in to understanding and compassion of ALL species, including humans, than judgements and criticisms. A lot of these "save the ___" campaigns are nothing but ego stroking for the privileged few who have the time and resources to care about the cute furry animal continents away, wholly lacking in understanding for the entire issue, and very critical and judgmental of the humans involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel compassion for decent human beings...but i dont have a shred for people who 'enjoy' hurting animals...do you feel compassion for people, who say,.. pit their dogs?? Ive been watching this tragedy unfold from the very beginning...i understand perfectly both sides so feel im perfectly entitled to be critical & judgemental of the humans involved in the downfall of these wolves!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look how quickly this thread turned in to "moronic ******** who won't listen". Would YOU listen if you were immediately judged as a moronic ******* without any attempt to get to know who you are as a person? Do you even KNOW any Wisconsinites who support wolf hunts? Have you had conversations with them and genuinely listened and attempted to understand their point of view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ive engaged with plenty of these people over the 5yrs ive been following story of these wolves, ALL the anti wolf lobby, ive come across, have to same irrational hatred for this animal they shamefully dismiss all the science... they are ignorant,arrogant ,prejudice & disturbingly cruel! . They gloat at killing them in the most brutal ways, subjecting these animals to the most horrendous cruelty,even torturing wolves caught in traps...now they want to set dogs upon them!...How can any rational compassionate person EVER understand that?!.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah humans can really suck sometimes, but that doesn't make them any less deserving of compassion. JMO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but i have zero compassion for animal abusers...infact i despise them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For that matter, have you ever watched a pack of wolves take down an elk calf? It's not pretty, it's not quick and painless, and it's very traumatic to both the calf that is often eaten before it's dead, and the mother left with bulging udders painfully calling to her lost child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you serious This is exactly the disingenuous sentimentality actual elk hunters use..its okay for hunters to kill elk .......but not its natural predator!!
> 
> but yes, of course ive watched wolves take down their prey, just as ive watched cheetah take down a gazelle etc, i feel sad for the victim but thats what nature is all about. Also grazers have evolved survival strategies to cope with predation. The wolf & the elk co-evolved in a predator prey balance. The wolf keep the elk herds strong, singling out the old & the weak, moving the herds around so they dont over browse....aspen & willow flourish where there are wolf.. Coyote predate far more elk calves than wolves...wolves keep coyote numbers down so restoring a balance here aswell. Wolves are a keystone species, they are Vital for a healthy ecosystem,.. bears,eagles.red fox,beaver,birds, the flora even the waterways benefit from wolves.... thats how important they are!.....Since wolf recovery in that region everything has been restored..& this is based on Many sound scientific studies, not folklore,lies or propaganda the anti wolf brigade like to spew...and now they are trashing it all over again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your "save the Elk" petition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No where...we can save the elk plus the whole ecosystem by saving the wolf!
> 
> Even rarer then the wolves...a honest wolf hunter...
> 
> Honesty From A Wolf Hunter About Wolves And Elk | Matt Skoglund's Blog | Switchboard, from NRDC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying wolves shouldn't hunt elk BTW, I'm simply pointing out that man is not the only cruel one here, and the issue is usually a lot less black and white than we like to make it out to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I beg to differ...Man is the only one whos cruel here...wolves have to kill to survive, man kills for fun...Huge difference!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me ask you this. Would you be willing to take some of those wolves in Wisconsin that you're trying to save, and have them introduced to the British Isles? There certainly used to be numerous wolves in England, why not re-introduce them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would welcome wolves back with open arms if we had enough habitat left to support them. The only place they could possbly be returned to is the Scottish Highlands on estates like Alladale...i sent my letter of support for this project a few years ago.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


----------



## Zaros

It appears evident to me now that some are more inclined to pay attention to the tirades of stand up comedians and be influenced by them than to pay closer attention to the truth.

During Carlin's rehearsed and pompous diatribe he omitted to say that the earth today is far more poisonous than it was billions of years ago. 

Today we are at greater risk of annihilating every single life form that either crawls, walks, swims or flies, as a direct result of the highly toxic chemicals which are being poured into the eco system and atmosphere each and every day.

Perhaps I'm just being arrogant but the truth is tomorrow this planet will be far more poisonous than it was today.

Like an errant child, man is deliberately and selfishly destroying his own incubator and both his ignorance and arrogance blinds him to that fact.

The further he continues along the path to his own destruction the less likely this planet is to recover.

The world is fast becoming a sad sh1t hole of shame and it seems only the very few are genuinely concerned.

In the meantime species will disappear by the laws of natural selection but what right does man have to hasten the demise of an entire species from that eco system and still believe that everything will be just fine and dandy?


----------



## noushka05

Zaros said:


> It appears evident to me now that some are more inclined to pay attention to the tirades of stand up comedians and be influenced by them than to pay closer attention to the truth.
> 
> During Carlin's rehearsed and pompous diatribe he omitted to say that the earth today is far more poisonous than it was billions of years ago.
> 
> Today we are at greater risk of annihilating every single life form that either crawls, walks, swims or flies, as a direct result of the highly toxic chemicals which are being poured into the eco system and atmosphere each and every day.
> 
> Perhaps I'm just being arrogant but the truth is tomorrow this planet will be far more poisonous than it was today.
> 
> Like an errant child, man is deliberately and selfishly destroying his own incubator and both his ignorance and arrogance blinds him to that fact.
> 
> The further he continues along the path to his own destruction the less likely this planet is to recover.
> 
> The world is fast becoming a sad sh1t hole of shame and it seems only the very few are genuinely concerned.
> 
> In the meantime species will disappear by the laws of natural selection but what right does man have to hasten the demise of an entire species from that eco system and still believe that everything will be just fine and dandy?


He IS a comedien:eek6: blimey... how disturbing that people dismiss Facts & science in favour of warped rants of a................ _comedien_:shocked:

he actally disgusts me if this is what he set out to achieve with his _humour_!...it appears hes given some the justification not to give a toss about the natural world..to be totally selfish

God give me Micky Flanagan any day of the week!...now his is funny!!

we have become so detached from the natural world that many parents arent instilling in their children that we have to care for our beautiful planet & all its wonders...imo it should be every parents responsibility to.

someones just sent me this lovely video via twitter, i dont even speak French but doesnt matter the message is clear
[youtube_browser]3uhYJsVuMLM[/youtube_browser]

.


----------



## Zaros

noushka05 said:


> Someones just sent me this lovely video via twitter, i dont even speak French but doesnt matter the message is clear
> [youtube_browser]3uhYJsVuMLM[/youtube_browser]


Sadly, Noushka, it's a rapidly disappearing world.

But save those images just for a moment.*

One of the most troubling science fiction images I ever saw regarding the human race was played out in the 1973 film 'Soylent Green' starring Charlton Heston and edward G Robinson.
The film tells of dystopian future and a world failing from the effects of over-population, poverty, depleted resources, dead and dying oceans and an unbearably hot climate, the catastrophic result of the greenhouse effect.

Man has killed, eaten and obliterated every living thing in his path.

The world's population is surviving on chemically processed food which is itself rationed because the industry producing it can't adequately meet the high demand.

Edward G plays a character named 'Solomon Roth' A scholar who is abjectly saddened by life and can no longer witness the ever increasing failure of the hapless human race and ultimately resolves to be 'Clinically dispatched'. Euthanised.

Laying on a gurney in a room designed specifically for the purpose of bringing life to a peaceful conclusion, Sol's end is tranquilly orchestrated with the assistance of classical music and *images of a world that long ago used to be but is no more projected onto a large screen.

Sol has lived too long and, moments before his death, reveals the dark and terrible secret behind 'Soylent Green' to his close friend.

Why do I sense there is a hideous truth behind someone else's vision?

Perhaps it's because half the world today is failing if not already failed. Starvation and malnutrition are rampant. Poverty too. And once poverty has crept over the threshold it usually brings with it many unwanted related ills.

The boundaries of the third world are expanding, creeping ever closer to our more plentiful, oppulent and decadent way of life. In some instances this man made societal cancer has already breached those boundaries but instead of retaliating, instead of defending against or making a concerted stand to overthrow and vanquish the menace of society's oldest adversary once and for all, man simply retreats.

But he can run as far and as desperately fast as he likes. In the end he will eventually run out of road and, with no other option available to him, he will be forced to stand and stare into the abyss and ultimately accept the brutal realisation that there really is no place left for him to run and no place left for him to hide.

Although man doesn't seem to want to compromise and continually turns a blind eye, the fact is, he knows he is still in a position to do something to guarantee the preservation of the natural world as well as his own idealised civilised world, but instead he just sits back and does nothing except admire his profits and blindly invest more in his own extinction.

I'll not be around to see the look of absolute terror on his face when his last days finally arrive but I have every suspicion his last words and damning accusations will be aimed at a God he spent an entire life time dismissing yet ultimately wants to hold accountable for the consequences of his own shameful complacency and unbridled incompetence.


----------



## noushka05

[


> QUOTE=*Zaros;*1062738944]Sadly, Noushka, it's a rapidly disappearing world.
> 
> But save those images just for a moment.*
> 
> One of the most troubling science fiction images I ever saw regarding the human race was played out in the 1973 film 'Soylent Green' starring Charlton Heston and edward G Robinson.
> The film tells of dystopian future and a world failing from the effects of over-population, poverty, depleted resources, dead and dying oceans and an unbearably hot climate, the catastrophic result of the greenhouse effect.
> 
> Man has killed, eaten and obliterated every living thing in his path.
> 
> The world's population is surviving on chemically processed food which is itself rationed because the industry producing it can't adequately meet the high demand.
> 
> Edward G plays a character named 'Solomon Roth' A scholar who is abjectly saddened by life and can no longer witness the ever increasing failure of the hapless human race and ultimately resolves to be 'Clinically dispatched'. Euthanised.
> 
> Laying on a gurney in a room designed specifically for the purpose of bringing life to a peaceful conclusion, Sol's end is tranquilly orchestrated with the assistance of classical music and *images of a world that long ago used to be but is no more projected onto a large screen.
> 
> Sol has lived too long and, moments before his death, reveals the dark and terrible secret behind 'Soylent Green' to his close friend.
> 
> Why do I sense there is a hideous truth behind someone else's vision?
> 
> Perhaps it's because half the world today is failing if not already failed. Starvation and malnutrition are rampant. Poverty too. And once poverty has crept over the threshold it usually brings with it many unwanted related ills.
> 
> The boundaries of the third world are expanding, creeping ever closer to our more plentiful, oppulent and decadent way of life. In some instances this man made societal cancer has already breached those boundaries but instead of retaliating, instead of defending against or making a concerted stand to overthrow and vanquish the menace of society's oldest adversary once and for all, man simply retreats.
> 
> But he can run as far and as desperately fast as he likes. In the end he will eventually run out of road and, with no other option available to him, he will be forced to stand and stare into the abyss and ultimately accept the brutal realisation that there really is no place left for him to run and no place left for him to hide.
> 
> Although man doesn't seem to want to compromise and continually turns a blind eye, the fact is, he knows he is still in a position to do something to guarantee the preservation of the natural world as well as his own idealised civilised world, but instead he just sits back and does nothing except admire his profits and blindly invest more in his own extinction.
> 
> I'll not be around to see the look of absolute terror on his face when his last days finally arrive but I have every suspicion his last words and damning accusations will be aimed at a God he spent an entire life time dismissing yet ultimately wants to hold accountable for the consequences of his own shameful complacency and unbridled incompetence.


[/QUOTE]

oh I know it is, i try to hope that we'll wake up and smell the coffee before we've trashed everything! Thats what makes it all the more tragic, it doesnt have to be that way ...but it seems we're so damn greedy and self obsessed that we dont care enough, we will when it starts affecting our everyday life though

Ive heard of Soylent green but never seen the film, it reminds me of this film...The Age of Stupid...The Age of Stupid | Spanner Films ..have you seen it Zaros? it has a similar apocalyptical (is that even a word? ) message.

_The Age of Stupid stars Oscar-nominated Pete Postlethwaite (In The Name of the Father, The Usual Suspects, Brassed Off) as a man living in the devastated future world of 2055, looking back at old footage from our time and asking: why didn't we stop climate change when we had the chance?

Launched at a Guinness World Recording-winning solar-powered premiere in London's Leicester Square, the film was released in cinemas worldwide, topped the UK box office (by screen average), became one of the most talked-about films of 2009 and garnered sensational reviews: The Telegraph called it "Bold, supremely provocative and hugely important", the News of the World described it as "A deeply inconvenient kick up the backside", ABC Australia said "So tightly constructed and dynamic you leave the cinema energised rather than terrified... hits home like a hammer blow" and the LA Times said "Think 'An Inconvenient Truth', but with a personality_

No i doubt i'll be around either & i wouldnt want to be, i dont want to see extinction after extinction of all the animals i love. My children may well be around to see it and to witness catastrophic changes to our climate though & the thought of that breaks my heart, theyre the best thing thats ever happened to me but for this reason alone i wish i'd never had them.


----------



## Zaros

noushka05 said:


> [
> 
> The Age of Stupid | Spanner Films ..have you seen it Zaros?
> 
> *No i doubt i'll not be around either*


I've not seen the film Noushka but I'll hunt it down on YouTube and hope it's available in this country. Many Videos aren't.

You know, reading through your post the root cause of the problem has suddenly just dawned on me.

I've said it myself and you yourself have just repeated those very same words.

*'I'm not going to be around' *

Perhaps this statement in itself represents everything that's wrong with the present day attitude of man.

He isn't going to be around.

And if he isn't going to be around, why should he care?:confused1:

Such are the excesses of stupidity.


----------



## noushka05

Zaros said:


> I've not seen the film Noushka but I'll hunt it down on YouTube and hope it's available in this country. Many Videos aren't.
> 
> You know, reading through your post the root cause of the problem has suddenly just dawned on me.
> 
> I've said it myself and you yourself have just repeated those very same words.
> 
> *'I'm not going to be around' *
> 
> Perhaps this statement in itself represents everything that's wrong with the present day attitude of man.
> 
> He isn't going to be around.
> 
> And if he isn't going to be around, why should he care?:confused1:
> 
> Such are the excesses of stupidity.


Yes i think you may just be right Zaros..but what i dont understand is how can man be so short sighted & selfish that he doesnt fear for his chidren or his childrens children then... we are suppose to be stewards of this planet & hand it down in in good shape for the next generation and all that ...like the Native Americans did.. that sort of brings me back to the wolves...when they were reintroduced the Nez Perce welcomed back their brother wolf, they have spoken out to try to stop the brutal hunts...no one listens to these indigenous people who took such good care of their environment

People would rather listen to pseudo science and propaganda..or the warped rants of some lame comedian

More depressing news..Wyoming have just extended its wolf hunt from march to october right through denning season. I despise Obama as much as I despise Bush

An estimated 1,084 wolves have been killed in the Northern Rockies since Congress stripped gray wolves of their Endangered Species Act protection in 2011. Whole packs, including mothers and pups, have fallen to hunters' bullets, snares and traps in Wyoming, Idaho and Montana.

Now, under a plan supported by the Obama Administration, Wyoming is scheduled to open even more of their state to the unlimited killing of wolves starting March 1st. This means that between now and October, in a large portion of some of the best wolf habitat in the state, wolves can be killed at will.

Please help with an emergency donation to save the wolves of Wyoming and other wildlife

This is especially tragic given that spring is denning season. This expanded hunt puts the most vulnerable population of wolves - pups and pregnant or nursing mothers - in greater danger of being shot on sight.

This kill-at-will approach is exactly the kind of flawed policy we knew would happen if wolves prematurely lost their Endangered Species Act protection - this is why Defenders is suing the U.S. Department of Interior to restore Endangered Species Act (ESA) protection for wolves in Wyoming.

Please donate now to support our litigation to protect Wyoming wolves -- and protect the wildlife and special places you care about.

We've witnessed firsthand what happens when the fate of wolves is turned over to states with extreme anti-wolf plans in place. In just two years more than 1,000 wolves are dead from hunting, snares and trapping


----------



## Guest

Oh look! More hateful Americans who don't give a damn about the environment! 

NRDC: Wild Things


----------



## noushka05

ouesi said:


> Oh look! More hateful Americans who don't give a damn about the environment!
> 
> NRDC: Wild Things


LOL, NRDC (& Earth justice) email me regularly with updates on the wolves etc, thats because I have donated to them( on numerous occasions) to try to save wolves, fantastic organisation, if only ALL people had their ethos!.....I doubt these people are your cup of tea mind....theyre far to 'self important' fighting to save all that wildlife lol

,


----------



## Zaros

ouesi said:


> Oh look! More hateful Americans who don't give a damn about the environment!


Don't take it so personally.

Regardless of race, here's a site dedicated to the willful killing of a species and it even applies the use of a slogan so deliberate and provocative it proves beyond all doubt that there are hateful people who simply don't give a damn about the environment.

HuntWolves.com | Help preserve wolves- take one to a taxidermist

Many people including Reindeer herders here would also like to see the Wolf exterminated except the government have declared killing the animal illegal without just cause.

Kill a Wolf without that just cause and you're susceptible to a very hefty fine and the loss of your livelihood.

Perhaps we should have an open season on these cruel and deliberate 845T4RD5 just to give the Wolf a sporting chance instead of no chance at all.:yesnod:


----------



## Guest

noushka05 said:


> LOL, NRDC (& Earth justice) email me regularly with updates on the wolves etc, thats because I have donated to them( on numerous occasions) to try to save wolves, fantastic organisation, if only ALL people had their ethos!.....I doubt these people are your cup of tea mind....theyre far to 'self important' fighting to save all that wildlife lol
> 
> ,


Amazing how off the mark you are in your assumptions about me. 
I'm not interested in fighting for wildlife? Right, that's exactly what I have said throughout this thread 


> ouesi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against hunting wolves, I'm actually against hunting in general (unless you eat and use what you hunt), but I am not against dogs (or donkeys or llamas) protecting livestock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouesi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's okay, I shouldn't have posted on your thread. I'm not trying to change your mind about anything really... I admire wolves, don't want to see them hunted, just object to the anti-American attitude so I got sucked in to the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouesi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think caring about animals is indeed an important part of being a compassionate human being, and I hope I am instilling that compassion in my own children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouesi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think there are a lot of things worth fighting for, and I respect anyone with the passion and determination to try and change things.
> I also respect that not all of us are going to be equally passionate about the same things - and I'm okay with that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ouesi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think a holistic approach to conservations is far more effective and far less arrogant than signing a petition from my comfy sofa while making judgmental generalizations about an entire people
> 
> Our time here is short. This is just me, but I would rather put time in to understanding and compassion of ALL species, including humans, than judgements and criticisms.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Not for nothing, I also find it interesting that your connection to the movie trailer is to the organization, while my connection to that movie trailer is to the people involved. THAT right there is the difference 

@Zaros, I have talked a good bit to many hunters, farmers and ranchers, and I have yet to meet one who doesn't respect wolves (or around here coyotes). Not a one that I have spoken to in person likes killing predators or even wants to. They are all very open to humane alternatives to keeping their livestock safe.

I'm sure there are a minority of sickos who want to see predators completely wiped out, but they are a small minority, who will not change, and are frankly not worth my time. I'd rather work with the majority who can make a change, folks who respect the role the predator plays in the ecosystem and want to keep them around, just away from their spring babies.


----------



## noushka05

> ouesi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing how off the mark you are in your assumptions about me.
> I'm not interested in fighting for wildlife? Right, that's exactly what I have said throughout this thread
> 
> 
> 
> Its no good cherry picking bits of your posts, the rest are there for all to see lol...so no, you dont exactly come across as someone who cares a jot for the wildlife & wildlife conservation ...afterall IYO we should just sit back and accept and let them get on with annhialating animals cos its NOT mans fault anyway... ...its the _planets_:sosp:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not for nothing, I also find it interesting that your connection to the movie trailer is to the organization, while my connection to that movie trailer is to the people involved. THAT right there is the difference
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And its the ordinary people who support these fantastic people and the organisations they work for..support them by donating money, signing & sharing petitions their petitions, bringing these atrocities to the attention of others...emailing & writing to officails & Govnts using the info and contact details they give us ...how do you think conservation organisations could even exist?, nevermind make a difference, without the support of thousands of like minded, ordinary individuals donating, voicing their opposition & pressurising governments & state governors etc ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Zaros, I have talked a good bit to many hunters, farmers and ranchers, and I have yet to meet one who doesn't respect wolves (or around here coyotes). Not a one that I have spoken to in person likes killing predators or even wants to. They are all very open to humane alternatives to keeping their livestock safe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then they were being disingenuous!...because there already ARE humane alternatives available coyotes have always been treated like vermin & now wolves have been stripped of their protections they have become 'vermin' to!. Wolves account for a mere 1% of livestock losses anyway, ranchers have always been allowed to shoot rogue wolves and were compensated for any losses!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are a minority of sickos who want to see predators completely wiped out, but they are a small minority, who will not change, and are frankly not worth my time. I'd rather work with the majority who can make a change, folks who respect the role the predator plays in the ecosystem and want to keep them around, just away from their spring babies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its not only the powerful hunting & ranching lobbies that have fought to get these animal delisted to vermin status.. all the states concerned are wolf hostile...the awful Obama administration has been complicit in the downfall persecution and slaughter of these wolves.  hardly a minority
> 
> Heres just a snippet off YOUR own link!
> 
> *Now, a record 12 percent of Yellowstone's wolves have been killed by hunters. Meanwhile, the Montana legislature is doing its best to ensure that park wolves continue to be killed in the future, by enacting measures such as House Bill No. 73, which, among other things, prohibits the Commission from closing any areas adjacent to either of Montana's national parks to wolf hunting or trapping, unless a wolf quota for those areas has been established and met. This bill passed by resounding majorities in both chambers: 96 to 3 in the House of Representatives, 45 to 4 in the Senate. Perhaps the overwhelming support for this bill simply reflects an unfortunate, pervasive anti-wolf sentiment among our elected officials. Alternatively, or in addition, it may reveal a lack of understanding of why the Commisson's power to close some areas adjacent to our parks-especially Yellowstone-is so important*.
> 
> *Unfortunately, wolves don't recognize political boundaries, and even those that spend most of their lives within the park occasionally wander out. This year, for the first time, wolf-hunters were waiting for wolves on every side of the park. As Doug Smith explained, this is a particularly lethal situation for wolves that have grown used to people. "They've learned to tolerate people in the park, but that gets them in trouble if they leave. Some wandered outside the park, and within six hours, they were dead." Several of the wolves killed so far this season were wearing radio collars (about $350 each) or GPS collars (ten times as expensive). When these wolves are lost, so is the ability of Smith and his team to continue to monitor long-term behavioral trends, both of the individual wolf, and often its pack, if the pack breaks up and disperses as a result. Closures of even small areas near the park help to avoid these setbacks and to maintain the significant benefits these long-term studies provide*
> 
> *Ultimately, the Commission is, and should be, the body endowed with the responsibility to "set the policies for the protection, preservation, management, and propagation of the wildlife" of Montana. Hunting and trapping closure decisions for all species should be determined by our state's wildlife experts, not politics*.
Click to expand...


----------



## noushka05

Zaros said:


> Don't take it so personally.
> 
> Regardless of race, here's a site dedicated to the willful killing of a species and it even applies the use of a slogan so deliberate and provocative it proves beyond all doubt that there are hateful people who simply don't give a damn about the environment.
> 
> HuntWolves.com | Help preserve wolves- take one to a taxidermist
> 
> Many people including Reindeer herders here would also like to see the Wolf exterminated except the government have declared killing the animal illegal without just cause.
> 
> Kill a Wolf without that just cause and you're susceptible to a very hefty fine and the loss of your livelihood.
> 
> *Perhaps we should have an open season on these cruel and deliberate 845T4RD5 just to give the Wolf a sporting chance instead of no chance at all.:yesnod:*




sentiments like that on your link are disturbingly common, on fb a wolf group did a Memorial page for a beautiful slaine wolf known as 06...this is the comment left by Wolf Hunting, Trapping And Snaring'

"*WE made A Rug Out Of her"*

I would happily participate in erasing these ignorant sadists off the face of the earth:yesnod:

/


----------



## Guest

This is why I should have bowed out of this conversation long ago or simply not participated. 

Sadly it is only cementing my suspicion that this is not really about animal welfare, not primarily it's not. It is primarily about certain individual's needs to nurture their self-righteous hate and vitriol, and the animals are nothing but pawns along for the ride in that purpose.

FWIW, in my experience, it's not the self-righteous, self-important attitudes that effect long term change. It's the compassionate, understanding ones. 

I'm going to go about my business making a difference in the way I know how, ya'll knock yourselves out alienating everyone who might be on the fence over these issues. People like me will pick up those pieces too.


----------



## meghaverma

I am going to start this list.. and I really want others to add to it and if we get enough good ideas, maybe it could be a stickie. I am also going to add things to to keep other pets in the house safe from the dog(s) and things to keep dog(s) safe from other pets.

1.) Do not feed dogs together or together with other animals. Physically separate them from each other and other animals. I feed in kennel runs or crates and one meal gets fed by hand by me daily to prevent resource guarding.

2.) Do not keep dogs and cats (or other pets) loose in the same area unsupervised.

3.) Supervise dogs that are out together playing.

4.) Unless you have a fenced yard, or are in a place with NO traffic, leash your dog before you open the door (even if you are not taking the dog out).

5.) Do not allow your dog to greet other dogs on leash. Dogs on leash are forced to greet face 2 face which can be construed by one or both dogs as "rude" and someone may start a fight.

6.) If you need to break up a dog fight grab the dog's hind legs and wheel barrow them backward out of the fight.

7.) Be very careful feeding your dog Rawhide Treats (I don'tfeed them at all) as if swallowed hole, rawhide cannot be digested and can cause a blockage.

8.) Pick up your socks and clothes from the floor and put them away where the dog cannot get them. Some dogs will "eat" these things and will need E Surgery to remove the obstruction.

9.) Never give your dog corn on the cob or cobs sliced up or allow access to corn in a corn field (before or after harvest). Rural vets are experts at obstruction surgery to remove corn cob chunks from dogs.

10.) Gate off

Watch more- Online Pet Shop, Online Pet Store, Pet Accessories, Pet Supplies Online


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## noushka05

ouesi said:


> This is why I should have bowed out of this conversation long ago or simply not participated.
> 
> Sadly it is only cementing my suspicion that this is not really about animal welfare, not primarily it's not. It is primarily about certain individual's needs to nurture their self-righteous hate and vitriol, and the animals are nothing but pawns along for the ride in that purpose.
> 
> FWIW, in my experience, it's not the self-righteous, self-important attitudes that effect long term change. It's the compassionate, understanding ones.
> 
> I'm going to go about my business making a difference in the way I know how, ya'll knock yourselves out alienating everyone who might be on the fence over these issues. People like me will pick up those pieces too.


I deleted my last response to this post because having read through whole thread again, I felt compelled to do a better reply..

You made it clear near the start, you joined this thread only because you were offended by the term *******. You chose to ignore my explanation that the label applies to anyone with that mindset where ever they live.. and the fact that many decent Americans use it to describe a certain type ..infact the Americans Ive encountered over this wolf debacle are mortified this set are fellow countrymen! & utterly ashamed of these people with their rabid hatred of wolves! Later you changed your story, you do care about the wolves, so you chat with people who kill them, and think they deserve your understanding and compassion. You then say wolves and other species arent 'that' important. Your reason? The world is ultimately doomed, you and your family are doomed, so Sod the lot. You may not kill wolves, but you do believe the slaughterers deserve the same compassion and understanding as endangered wolves? WTH

What's the point, you say, after having your heart stirred by a 2nd rate comedian too apathetic and self obsessed to care about anything but his overpaid rants of contempt for those who will NOT stop fighting for the helpless, and only favoured by Americans too self absorbed to give a damn. He has no following overseas. You identify with this idiots views. Seriously?

The world is doomed, what's the point? Yet you make sure your children are educated, try to set them up for good jobs, no?

Why bother, if they are all doomed? 

So, with your logic, nobody would have fought against slavery. Sod it!, we're all going to die anyway. I don't get any personal benefit. With your attitude, and personal value system, the great National Parks now in danger as never before, would never have been set up. Sod them!. I'm going to die. My kids are going to die. Let everything die. Who Cares.

The best teachers have ethics,and instill in their students the selfless desire to protect their own native species, whatever the difficulties. They instill compassion,empathy and a comprehension of biological science & the importance of Apex predators.

There! I think ive got it off my chest now


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## Knightofalbion

Ouesi: The problem with Internet forums is that, as there is no face-to-face contact, it is all too easy for tone and intent to be misconstrued. It happens to us all.

I've not seen anything in this thread that I would consider anti-Americanism, only anti-cruelty - opposition to people who in this instance happen to be American. 
If you go over to 'General Chat' you'll see that the same member has laid into the proposed English badger cull, proposed by people who in this instance happen to be English, with equal *passion*.

And passion is the word. *She cares*. In my opinion, you'll not find a more good-hearted, caring person on PF than Noushka.


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## noushka05

Knightofalbion said:


> Ouesi: The problem with Internet forums is that, as there is no face-to-face contact, it is all too easy for tone and intent to be misconstrued. It happens to us all.
> 
> I've not seen anything in this thread that I would consider anti-Americanism, only anti-cruelty - opposition to people who in this instance happen to be American.
> If you go over to 'General Chat' you'll see that the same member has laid into the proposed English badger cull, proposed by people who in this instance happen to be English, with equal *passion*.
> 
> And passion is the word. *She cares*. In my opinion, you'll not find a more good-hearted, caring person on PF than Noushka.


I really appreciate this post KOA, thank you xx


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## peterscot423

:thumbup1:Thanks for sharing this post.


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