# Purina Beta Puppy (food) making him itch?



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Hi

My puppy has been with me 1 week tomorrow. We're doing well with toilet training and he has a sweet but cheeky disposition.

We're making progress with both dogs been in the same room and my older dog not growling at him everytime he breathes! 

He does seem to itch alot!..Vet has checked him when did first vaccination. He's an healthy 7Kg and has no sign of fleas. She does not want to start any frontline-type treatments until after his second vaccination in 2 weeks. 

I wondered if it was his food? I was given a bag of Purina Beta puppy for him, my dog is on James Wellbeloved (senior as she's 11 and half), I'd like him to go on JWB puppy then I can buy it all together direct from manufacturer for discount maybe? ..which has no wheat, beef, additives etc. 

Do you think its the Purina food that may have cereal in? I can't see the tiny writing for ingredients..(think I need reading glasses!  ) , so was wondering by chance if anyone else had had their puppy on Purina Beta Puppy and had similar issue?

Thanks


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## missRV (Nov 9, 2012)

Hi 

Rosie is being weened off Purina Beta and onto James Wellbeloved (she's 12 weeks old) (she's now on 1 part beta to 5 parts wellbeloved) and since going onto wellbeloved, her itches have gone and her tearstains have been reduced greatly. 

SixStar sent me a brilliant link to his thread information on kibble... Wellbeloved was rated by him as "amber" meaning OK. Beta was rated as "red" I'll see if I can find the link.


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## missRV (Nov 9, 2012)

SixStar said:


> Have a look through here - http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/255727-updated-dry-dog-food-index.html


I'm sure he won't mind me quoting from another thread.... I found it very helpful.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I would think it was highly likely that Beta was the cause of the itching - it's full of wheat, maize and other cheap fillers.

If you are going to go with James Wellbeloved then I would choose one of the cereal free varieties (lamb, turkey or fish, with vegetables) as the rice, barley and oats in the regular JWB are no good for itchy skin either. They do not do a 'puppy' variety in the cereal free range, but the adult food is just fine for a puppy.

However, unless you are buying huge bulk amounts direct from the manufacturer (unlikely since you only have two dogs), then I can't see how having them on the same brands would get you a discount from anywhere. Places like VetUK, Pet Supermarket etc always have good deals on various brands, and you can choose one specifically that suits the pups needs.

This might help - http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/255727-updated-dry-dog-food-index.html


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

oh ok thanks. 

I'm assuming green is the best then? I wonder why JWB is only 'amber'? ...my older dog has been on it since a pup and saw a big improvement in her behaviour and itching after switching her. 

I assume these ratings have some scientific basis and not just some 'experts' opinion on which is best food based on which they prefer?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> oh ok thanks.
> 
> I'm assuming green is the best then? I wonder why JWB is only 'amber'? ...my older dog has been on it since a pup and saw a big improvement in her behaviour and itching after switching her.
> 
> I assume these ratings have some scientific basis and not just some 'experts' opinion on which is best food based on which they prefer?


James Wellbeloved is only amber because it does not contain large amounts of meat, and contains cereals - which dogs have no need for.

The ratings are based on the ingredients only.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

ok good info but be helpful if all the greens were together at the top to pick one of the best without having to go through all the pages. 

My dog is on the wheat/cereal free version. She does like a bit of toast though!..but I'm gluten free myself. She doesn't have any problems with itching as most everything we have is wheat free.

I had already got a a small 2kg pack of JWB puppy to try him on, as the woman hadn't mentioned his food and just brought this Purina with her so thought may as well use it if he was used to it then wean him onto the JWB by end of the pack. 

He could go straight onto the adult JWB then after used the puppy stuff up (maybe small dog sized kibble to start with?) ..or is there a better (more green) one around the same price as 2Kg bag of JWB (£6-£7)

Isn't too much protein meant to be bad? ...give you kidney stones or something or is that only in humans? 

I get Inca several bags of different flavours but it's same brand but she get's a bit of variety and by what I add to it too (fish, meat or veg).


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> ok good info but be helpful if all the greens were together at the top to pick one of the best without having to go through all the pages.
> 
> My dog is on the wheat/cereal free version. She does like a bit of toast though!..but I'm gluten free myself. She doesn't have any problems with itching as most everything we have is wheat free.
> 
> ...


Personally, I feel it's more user friendly in alphabetical order. 

There is nothing wrong with James Wellbeloved cereal free, so that would be perfectly fine to change him over onto when your current food has run out, he should be able to manage the kibble pieces fine - there is no small breed variety in the cereal free range.

It is the _quality_ of protein that is important, not the _quantity_. My dogs, being raw fed, eat a very high protein diet that consists almost entirely of raw meat, offal and bones - all exceptionally protein rich, but since it's good quality animal based protein, as opposed to low quality cereal/plant based protein, then it's perfectly fine for a canine.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

so what would be the difference (other than cereal) be in the JWB puppy, adult and senior? 

I'm sure someone had told me once the senior was lower in protein as older dogs didn't need as high a level? 

I thought they would be some scientific reason why food was aimed at different ages like maybe senior had higher levels of stuff like glucosamine (than puppy one) to reduce risk of arthritis or something as dog is getting older?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> so what would be the difference (other than cereal) be in the JWB puppy, adult and senior?
> 
> I'm sure someone had told me once the senior was lower in protein as older dogs didn't need as high a level?
> 
> I thought they would be some scientific reason why food was aimed at different ages like maybe senior had higher levels of stuff like glucosamine (than puppy one) to reduce risk of arthritis or something as dog is getting older?


Senior food is lower in fat compared to adult diets, but to achieve this they replace some of the meat content with lower calorie cereals, which in turn makes a lower quality product. They do tend to contain joint supplements too. However, I would much rather feed a good quality adult diet (and feed less if the dog is prone to weight gain or inactive) and add my own supplements, tailored to my dogs needs.

There is cereal in ALL the regular James Wellbeloved foods - puppy, adult and senior diets.

The ONLY James Wellbeloved foods that do not contain cereal is the cereal free Adult food, in the green foil bags. As below;

Fish & Vegetable Adult - James WellBeloved
Lamb & Vegetable Adult - James WellBeloved
Turkey & Vegetable Adult - James WellBeloved

If your dog is on James Wellbeloved Senior, she is not on the cereal free variety, as there is no cereal free specific Senior diet.

Although JWB Senior does not contain wheat - it contains rice, oats and barley, which are all cereals.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

ok ..I thought rice was ok as alot of dog foods have like chicken and rice , lamb and rice etc. 

I was thinking allergy wise that wheat is more often the cause of allergy symptoms than rice. ..I guess as my main issue is with wheat too (I'm not allergic to any other glutens like maize or oats). 

I know on her bags of food it says no wheat, no beef etc can't remember them all but there's a list across the pack. 

The cereal free one does also seem to have joint support and she has Mobile Bones supplement added to her dinner anyway so that might work just getting those for both of them? (once I used up what we got)

Is there any harm in JJ having Inca's 'senior' kibble mixed in with his dinner just till I use it all up? .. or would it have things missing that he needs in his diet at this delicate age? (he was only 2 month old last Friday)


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> Isn't too much protein meant to be bad? ...give you kidney stones or something or is that only in humans?


DogAware.com Articles: Diets for Senior Dogs may be of interest although as always when looking at the internet, try to find the referenced resources if you can to double check.

Kidney function being worse on a high protein diet was apparently based on an old study with rats, not dogs. Newer studies with dogs show the opposite.

General guidelines now are senior dogs need more protein. In fact if you don't want to take my opinion (although I am not an expert pushing the food I prefer ) you can check out Today's Breeder Magazine - Issue 27 - Demystifying Myths About Protein


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

lol! I will put him on JWB cereal free, though I suspect it's probably wheat that's the main culprit. 

I checked Inca's treats and a lot of them have cereal in cos she tends to prefer the soft ones and is not interested in the harder ones at all. I tried her on Fish4dogs treats before she wasn't interested... although JJ might like them but I wasn't sure if they were completely cereal free? 

We've got stag bars.. half antler easy chews, Inca's not interested, luckily JJ seems to enjoy a good chew at the minute so they won't go to waste! 

He has a small rubber interactive treatball, the purina food is a nice size for that which is a shame as I'm sure it's that, that's making him itch, so wondering if there's any non-cereal small kibble sized treats out there that would fit in his treatball as he really enjoys chasing it about and it keeps him out of mischief. (low in cals too if possible so can be generous but he won't get overweight until he can walk everywhere on the ground. (another 3 weeks to go) 

Thanks


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Jodi was plagued by itchiness when she was young. After a great deal of research I put her onto Burns lamb and rice which sorted it all out. She is now fourteen and a half, Tora died last year at fourteen. These are oldest dogs I've had and I put it down to better quality foods nowadays.


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