# ragdoll breeders.



## Guest (Mar 21, 2008)

Saw this pic online offering stud services,can you get the dark nose with the bi-colour pattern??? thought they were pink!


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

What's that in your signature Clare?
You have a legitimate business as well as your breeding?


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2008)

advertising hubbys buisinessany luck rehoming your retired kittys yet???


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

We won't have any problems rehoming the cats when they're ready. But we might be keeping one of them back to have one last litter.

Your sig doesn't work properly though. 

The reason I asked about it is most people breeding unregistered cats don't advertise where they live (which is what letting people know about your legit business does).


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

How would i ever sell anything if i didnt say where i lived ???? we havent got website yet buisiness is fairly new and we havent had to advertise due to a couple of big contracts,but will be sorting one out soon.what was your take on the thread dogs for sale page 8?? it was quite a debate!


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

I don't have dogs, so I didn't read it.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

It was about breeders rehoming retired cats.


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## marjoriedaws (Mar 10, 2008)

hI,
I bought my mum a ragdoll for Xmas, he was 4 and a half months old, and died 2 and a half months later. Vets said he was jaundiced and he had liver problem, and died of a heart attack in the night at the vets. Mum took him to the vets as soon as she noticed he was ill, and he died during the night at the vets of a heart attack.
She has years of cat rescue experience.
Do you think the breeders ought to give her another?
I paid £300 for him, mum was extremely upset and still is and I was very angry about it. She hasnt spoke to the breeder yet. She did not do ortopsy, as she was so upset.
Any comments or advice welcome please.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Does your mum have a contract that came with the cat? It should tell you what their policies are.

But a good breeder will always stand by their cats and should offer replacements for cats that die unexpectedly in the first year of their lives. Don't worry about seeming harsh - call the breeder and explain what happened and ask what their policies are.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Whatever is going on with ragdolls at the moment???

If it was me as the breeder, I would certainly want to know. You should give the breeder a chance.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

They definatley need to know,somethings not right there,if they wont talk to you or get funny about it seek advice from your vet as you have rights.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

> How would i ever sell anything if i didnt say where i lived ???? we havent got website yet buisiness is fairly new and we havent had to advertise due to a couple of big contracts,but will be sorting one out soon.


If you are talking about selling unregistered kittens then I suppose you would advertise yourself in the local newspaper rather than on a WWW board as a backyard breeder.



> what was your take on the thread dogs for sale page 8?? it was quite a debate!


Other than stirring, I have no idea why you would draw my attention to that page - particularly since I am alluded to by not one, but two of you. I run my cattery as a business and after my cats have finished working to produce more of their breed they are rehomed as pets. I have very few cats that I couldn't bear to part with. The ones that do stay with me have to be very hardy and sociable and able to get along with a lot of other cats.
The others are rehomed for their own good - to be pampered and loved by some lucky people out there that get to own a pedigree cat.

Perhaps you should point the other people in the direction of this thread if you can tear yourself away from stirring your cauldron.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Any chance of a link to that thread? I can't find it - or has it been taken down?


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

The byb thread is finished now,why dont you just drop it,you dragged it all up again then complain when i respond!!


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## mazcamps (Mar 15, 2008)

hi clare im new here and and also a breeder of ragdolls in answer to your question i do believe they have pink noses


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Yes, unfortunately the backyard breeder thread where you introduced yourself as such has been removed, which means people don't know that you breed unregistered cats with no idea of their pedigrees when you continue to post inflammatory stuff to wind registered breeders (me esp) up.

I didn't see you respond to anything about being a backyard breeder.

Liz http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/3777-dogs-sale-8.html

Clare was just pointing out how I was being used in an example by ajshep1984 to say how disgusting it was that breeders rehome their animals.

So it seems that it is morally reprehensible to rehome registered cats to forever homes, but it's ok to breed cats that aren't registered by people that are not registered with pedigrees that are non existent.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

mazcamps said:


> hi clare im new here and and also a breeder of ragdolls in answer to your question i do believe they have pink noses


I thought they should,bi-colours should have pink nose and pads,well thats what book says!!the one in the pic just doesnt look right!


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## mazcamps (Mar 15, 2008)

i cant really see the problem with clares breeding as she isselling pedigree cats o people who otherwise would not be able to afford one with a pedigree if people want papers they pay for them if they cant afford they buy from clare totally different market but thats just my opinion


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Are you also an unregistered breeder?


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

The problems with backyard breeding were thrashed out over a long thread with experienced breeders which has since been removed.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

...yes thank you weve already established that.


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

mazcamps said:


> i cant really see the problem with clares breeding as she isselling pedigree cats o people who otherwise would not be able to afford one with a pedigree if people want papers they pay for them if they cant afford they buy from clare totally different market but thats just my opinion


I take it your not a breeder!!!!! If you were you would understand why breeders get so upset with BYB


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

Anyone else getting dejavou?????


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## staceyscats1 (Feb 17, 2008)

may said:


> I take it your not a breeder!!!!! If you were you would understand why breeders get so upset with BYB


ok i have to say i use to breed bengal x i no longer do now and have had my last litter and with advice i have been given i am now going to breed pure bred registered bengals along with my prefix etc and i have to say i had a few breeders have a go and others phone the person that i am planning to get my new breedin queens from and work along side so that i can help improve the breed of pelt temperment etc and i have a great passion for cat shows so will be doing that aswell.
i understand that breeders are annoyed with byb and i only had one female and one male and just had 3 litters in total so i would not say i was a byb but in my case some breeders were so quick to judge me and it was really upsetin 
with the right advice to clair am sure she will see that investing in a quality regestired breeding queen will benifit her fav breed to produce top quality ragdolls


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Anyone else getting dejavou?????


yeah im not getting involved this time, wouldnt want to offend anyone


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## mazcamps (Mar 15, 2008)

well actually i did used to breed registed yorkies and some of my cats are registered but as an ex breeder im not getting into a debate over what happens with pedegrees and some breeders


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

> yeah im not getting involved this time as certain people seem to go off crying to admin!


You managed to be offensive enough in your last post to get it removed all by yourself. If you're going to personally attack someon at least educate yourself about what you are talking about. I love all of my cats - but not all of them are able to cope in a multi cat household - so guess what? Someone gets the benefit of a young ex-breeding queen to join them at less than a BYB would charge for an unregistered cat. And we don't breed our cats after a certain age, so they have the chance to integrate with a family who cannot afford a kitten.

I never said we didn't make money from our cats - every breeder 'makes money' from their cats - whether they make a profit from it is another matter.

What I said in the other thread (nice to know you weren't blinded by your feelings of solidarity for Clare to be able to take it in  ) was that BYBs do not pay for breeding quality cats - they pay for cats that should not be bred for one reason or another. And they do this to save money - they lie to the breeder and then breed cats that were never meant to be bred to line their pockets. They don't fill out paperwork, they don't adhere to any ethical code, they run no risk of finding their business in tatters because they have failed to do the right thing - they have no rules.

I would not buy a car or a house from someone who has first of all lied, then cut corners, then produced something that didn't have the correct paperwork. So why would anybody buy an unregistered cat? The mind boggles. They're not even being governed by a code of ethics! Why take the risk?


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## mazcamps (Mar 15, 2008)

sorry dont mean to offend anyone did read byb thread im not say all breeders doit but i no when i bred yorkies oooh 10 years ago some top breeders didnt give correct paperwork to some litters and i no that went on then so sometime the papers mean well not a lot


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> The problems with backyard breeding were thrashed out over a long thread with experienced breeders which has since been removed.


which is pity, becouse people have no idea of difference between registered breeder and Back Yard Breeder....................


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

> you still dont seem to have grasped that clare didnt lie to anyone when she bought her cats, or is it a point you just choose to ignore to suit yourself?


Whether Clare is the 'original' BYB that lied to buy the cat, or whether she is a BYB further on down the line - she knows that someone lied to get a cat and that makes her as bad as the 'original' BYB.

It's like buying dodgy goods from a bloke in the pub. So she didn't actually steal the goods herself - but she knows they are stolen and is seeking to profit from someone elses loss. 



> you cant say you love your cats and then just sell them on once they are no use to you, maybe it is best for them but thats not the point.


I have never sold a cat once it is 'no use' to me. One that we are rehoming is a nervous wreck around other cats - she is only a year old and has plenty of litters left in her if I wanted to keep her on to produce more - but I want to do what is best for the cat. She currently has to be kept completely separate from the other cats and is not enjoying the sort of life that could be offered to her by a family. That is why she is being rehomed.

I resent being told that I do not love my cats. You have never met me or my cats and are just running your arguments on emotions and emotive speak. 



> not everyone is more concerned with a piece of paper than the actual cat itself, the mind boggles at the fact that some people actually think this way.


The 'piece of paper' that you scoff at is the registration certificate - it's the proof that the cat is what the breeder says it is. If you don't mind being sold a 'Rolex' down the pub by a dodgy guy in a brown raincoat, then by all means buy your cat unregistered. If you want a Rolex that is guaranteed to be a Rolex then buy it from Harvey Nichols.

The 'Rolex' you get from the guy in the raincoat may break after a while and you'll have no protection - you bought 'stolen goods' after all.



> which is pity, becouse people have no idea of difference between registered breeder and Back Yard Breeder....................


Yes, it is a pity. Having a thread about BYBs is educational and informative.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Why do his posts keep disappearing when I've spent ages preparing an answer?!


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

what posts??? 

i like the way you compare a cat to a watch, a living breathing animal to an inanimate object, that says everything really! i rest my case!


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## mazcamps (Mar 15, 2008)

ithought this post was about bi color ragdolls and pink noses im looking for a bluepoint girl if anyone is interrested


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

Having a thread about BYBs is educational and informative.[/quote]

Hope it will stay for people to read.


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

Anele Jessica said:


> Having a thread about BYBs is educational and informative.


Hope it will stay for people to read.[/QUOTE]
100% agree with you 

Quote ajshep1984
i like the way you compare a cat to a watch, a living breathing animal to an inanimate object, that says everything really! i rest my case!
You rest your caseand that is


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> You managed to be offensive enough in your last post to get it removed all by yourself.


I assumed the thread was removed because you accused Clare of theft. O well, clearly I got that wrong, sorry.



> they don't adhere to any ethical code


Now that's a bit unfair. Just because someone breeds unregistered cats does not mean they do not adhere to an ethical code!



> I would not buy a car or a house from someone who has first of all lied, then cut corners, then produced something that didn't have the correct paperwork. So why would anybody buy an unregistered cat?


Why do you keep implying that Clare has lied? Lying would be selling unregistered cats as registered, eg. with a false pedigree.

Liz


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> what posts???
> 
> i like the way you compare a cat to a watch, a living breathing animal to an inanimate object, that says everything really! i rest my case!


Dont be silly, Alan, thats not what she meant!


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

lizward said:


> I assumed the thread was removed because you accused Clare of theft. O well, clearly I got that wrong, sorry.
> 
> Now that's a bit unfair. Just because someone breeds unregistered cats does not mean they do not adhere to an ethical code!
> 
> ...


Have you got a wall nearby? It might be a little more worthwhile to bang your head against that than try and make a point here!


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

lizward said:


> I assumed the thread was removed because you accused Clare of theft. O well, clearly I got that wrong, sorry.
> 
> Now that's a bit unfair. Just because someone breeds unregistered cats does not mean they do not adhere to an ethical code!
> 
> ...


I guess - what she meant was that some people breeding from cats which were sold as pets only - without breeding rights and may be not of breeding quality.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> Whether Clare is the 'original' BYB that lied to buy the cat, or whether she is a BYB further on down the line - she knows that someone lied to get a cat


Sorry but that simply does not follow. It is entirely possible that the original breeder chose to sell cats she had bred herself as unregistered. I can think of several possible scenarios where this could happen. Some suggestions:

1. The breed registration policy may have changed so that cats on the full or supplementary registers produce kittens that can only go on the reference register - this happens in the development of new breeds. it may well have happened with Bengals at some point.

2. The breeder may have been in a situation where she was not sure who the parents of the kittens were eg. two mums sharing litters very early on so that the breeder was not sure which litter was which, or perhaps a young entire boy living in the house who might have mated with the queen just before she went in with the stud cat.

3. The breeder might have attended a show without realising that her cat was pregnant, found out later that the cat was indeed pregnant, and not wanted to be banned from the show scene for six months which is the standard GCCF penalty for showing a pregnant cat.

4. The breeder may have had a diagnosis of ringworm in the house which would mean that she could not sell any kittens. Selling them as unregistered, the GCCF would not know about them.

Obviously some of these scenarios are more serious that others. 1 and 2 are genuine reasons for selling unregistered kittens (though one would hope that a breeder would learn from her mistakes so that scenario 2 didn't happen more than once!), 3 isa technical offence but in my opinion very understandable - the GCCF draconian penalty is to blame there. 4 is a very serious one because ringworm is contagious and it is grossly unfair to put someone else at risk. On the other hand it is possible to envisage a scenario where the ringworm is declared up front to a personal friend who has no other animals and is entirely willing to take griseofulvin for a few weeks in order to get a nice cat for nothing.

Liz


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

Anele Jessica said:


> Dont be silly, Alan, thats not what she meant!


Are you sure???


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Anele Jessica said:


> I guess - what she meant was that some people breeding from cats which were sold as pets only - without breeding rights and may be not of breeding quality.


Yes this COULD happen but there are plenty of other ways to become a BYB!

Liz


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

> You rest your caseand that is


An earlier post that Alan made said that I do not love my cats and get rid of them once they have 'served their purpose' (a point that I argued above). Clare had stirred up trouble (in this thread) by asking whether I had read the posts about retiring breeding cats in another thread (in the dog forum). The reason they were talking about retiring cats in a dog forum is because Alan used me as an example of someone who doesn't care about my animals and simply uses them as .. what was it.. money machines? The argument that Clare was keen for me to see was a dog lover who wouldn't dream of rehoming her dogs after they had had litters. Clare was keen for me to see that this person - and Alan - found me morally reprehensible because I find pet homes for some of my ex-queens rather than keeping them all to myself.



> i like the way you compare a cat to a watch, a living breathing animal to an inanimate object, that says everything really! i rest my case!


I'm sure once you have calmed down you will remove that post too.

I was trying to bring it down to a level that you might understand, Alan. I think you know that full well. Everyone understands the guy in the dirty mac with a 'Rolex' in the pub is either selling fakes, or is selling stolen goods. I used that as an analogy so you could understand what an unregistered cat is to registered breeders.

I'm hoping other people will read that and understand it too.

Perhaps a mod could split this off into a BYB thread again.

And Alan - let Clare fight her own battles. I don't know what you think is in it for you.



> I assumed the thread was removed because you accused Clare of theft. O well, clearly I got that wrong, sorry.


You assumed that Alan's post was removed because he... or I? ... accused Clare of theft?

Let's just be absolutely clear. If someone with a 'pedigree' Ragdoll bred by Clare went to Trading Standards, she would be prosecuted. To be able to sell a pedigree cat, it has to have a pedigree. Since she does not supply paperwork for her cats, they are not pedigree cats and cannot be sold as such.



> Just because someone breeds unregistered cats does not mean they do not adhere to an ethical code!


Yes it does. They might have their own aribtrary 'ethical code' but they do not stand and fall by it. They might change their mind tomorrow about what is ethical and what is not. They don't have rules written in stone as registered breeders do.



> Why do you keep implying that Clare has lied? Lying would be selling unregistered cats as registered, eg. with a false pedigree.


Why do you not understand that she knew these cats were unregistered? This means she knew that someone had lied to get the cat originally. She does not sell cats with a pedigree, yet she sells them as 'pedigree cats' and she bought her cats knowing that someone down the line had lied and obtained a pet cat for the purpose of breeding.

BYBs are in an extremely dodgy position, legally.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Are you sure???


I am, Alan.


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

> Sorry but that simply does not follow. It is entirely possible that the original breeder chose to sell cats she had bred herself as unregistered. I can think of several possible scenarios where this could happen. Some suggestions:
> 
> 1. The breed registration policy may have changed so that cats on the full or supplementary registers produce kittens that can only go on the reference register - this happens in the development of new breeds. it may well have happened with Bengals at some point.
> 
> ...


So Liz. In all four scenarios, under which circumstances would it be ok to breed one of the unregistered kittens?


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> An earlier post that Alan made said that I do not love my cats and get rid of them once they have 'served their purpose' (a point that I argued above). Clare had stirred up trouble (in this thread) by asking whether I had read the posts about retiring breeding cats in another thread (in the dog forum). The reason they were talking about retiring cats in a dog forum is because Alan used me as an example of someone who doesn't care about my animals and simply uses them as .. what was it.. money machines? The argument that Clare was keen for me to see was a dog lover who wouldn't dream of rehoming her dogs after they had had litters. Clare was keen for me to see that this person - and Alan - found me morally reprehensible because I find pet homes for some of my ex-queens rather than keeping them all to myself.
> 
> I'm sure once you have calmed down you will remove that post too.
> 
> ...


*BRILLIANT!!!!*


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

> BRILLIANT!!!!


I thank you 

*bows* *bows* *bows*

And where is Clare in all this?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> I was trying to bring it down to a level that you might understand, Alan. I think you know that full well. Everyone understands the guy in the dirty mac with a 'Rolex' in the pub is either selling fakes, or is selling stolen goods. I used that as an analogy so you could understand what an unregistered cat is to registered breeders.


Sorry but I really don't see why you keep on with the "fakes or stolen goods" analogy. it is entirely possible that the unreigstered kittens are NEITHER fakes NOR the result of what you call theft.



> You assumed that Alan's post was removed because he... or I? ... accused Clare of theft?


YOU! Have you forgotten what you said?



> Let's just be absolutely clear. If someone with a 'pedigree' Ragdoll bred by Clare went to Trading Standards, she would be prosecuted.


Under what grounds?



> To be able to sell a pedigree cat, it has to have a pedigree.


Not if it is clearly described as "no papers"!



> Since she does not supply paperwork for her cats, they are not pedigree cats and cannot be sold as such.


That is certainly a GCCF rule, but if Clare is not a GCCF breeder then i don't see that it applies in this case.



> Yes it does. They might have their own aribtrary 'ethical code' but they do not stand and fall by it. They might change their mind tomorrow about what is ethical and what is not. They don't have rules written in stone as registered breeders do.


if you mean the rules are not imposed from outside then you are correct. That does not mean they have no ethical code. Do you only have an ethical code because it is imposed on you? Surely not!



> Why do you not understand that she knew these cats were unregistered? This means she knew that someone had lied to get the cat originally.


No, that does not follow. I have listed four scenarios whereby a registered breeder might have a good reason to sell unregistered cats. I am sure you can think of others. We do not know why the cats Clare purchased were unregistered.



> She does not sell cats with a pedigree, yet she sells them as 'pedigree cats'


IF she claims they are pedigree and does not make it very clear that no papers are available then she could be in trouble. If she makes it clear that there are no papers then really there is nothing anyone can do. Besides, you and I both know that the piece of paper does not guarantee the parentage of the kitten!



> and she bought her cats knowing that someone down the line had lied and obtained a pet cat for the purpose of breeding.


Why do you keep saying this when you simply do not know the circumstances?

liz


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

Registered breeders have rules set in stone??? if so why..
1.is there a registered breeder advertising both registered and non registered cats on a internet site?
2.my friend took her unregistered cat to a gccf breeder to use her stud cat(a very successful show cat)and charged her £100.
3.breeders register kittens under false mothers names??
Why would anyone go to trading standards because i didnt supply papers? if they wanted papers they would buy registered.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

I clearly state when advertising pedigree but no papers.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> I thank you
> 
> *bows* *bows* *bows*
> 
> And where is Clare in all this?


its only a pieceful discussion......some people including me - agree with SavannahKitten.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

SavannahKitten said:


> So Liz. In all four scenarios, under which circumstances would it be ok to breed one of the unregistered kittens?


Any of them. If they are sold as unregistered, the breeder has no further rights. There is nothing you or I or trading standards or anyone else can do about it, it is not illegal to breed from an unregistered cat! Neither there any GCCF rule barring a stud owner from accepting an unregistered cat to stud (though in practice I am sure most stud owners would refuse)

Liz


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## mazcamps (Mar 15, 2008)

Let's just be absolutely clear. If someone with a 'pedigree' Ragdoll bred by Clare went to Trading Standards, she would be prosecuted. To be able to sell a pedigree cat, it has to have a pedigree. Since she does not supply paperwork for her cats, they are not pedigree cats and cannot be sold as such."quote"

trading standards would only get involved if clare sold them with papers that were not theres clare is not selling at pedigree prices and and they are ragdoll cat so she is not doing anything illegal as she advertisers as non registered and people sell xcats for not much less so do registered breeders


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

lizward said:


> Sorry but I really don't see why you keep on with the "fakes or stolen goods" analogy. it is entirely possible that the unreigstered kittens are NEITHER fakes NOR the result of what you call theft.
> 
> I guess becouse most likely the cats BYB's breed from was not bought as breeding cats, but as a pets from unsuspecting fooled registered breeders


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Registered breeders have rules set in stone??? if so why..
> 1.is there a registered breeder advertising both registered and non registered cats on a internet site?
> 2.my friend took her unregistered cat to a gccf breeder to use her stud cat(a very successful show cat)and charged her £100.
> 3.breeders register kittens under false mothers names??
> Why would anyone go to trading standards because i didnt supply papers? if they wanted papers they would buy registered.


The first is acceptable as long as the breeder does not claim that the kittens are pedigree - the wording (to stay within the rules set by the GCCF) would have to be something like "these kittens have been bred in exactly the same way as ... but cannot legally be described as pedigree because they have no papers".

The second is acceptable within GCCF rules - and this has been done in several breeds in the early stages (including Bengals)

The third would get the breeder a life suspension if the GCCF ever found out, and rightly so, that is plain dishonest.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Anele Jessica said:


> I guess becouse most likely the cats BYB's breed from was not bought as breeding cats, but as a pets from unsuspecting fooled registered breeders


This may be the most likely scenario but it is by no means the only one.

Liz


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## mazcamps (Mar 15, 2008)

The third would get the breeder a life suspension if the GCCF ever found out, and rightly so, that is plain dishonest.

Liz[/QUOTE]

how would they no it does happen


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

Wash your mouth out!!! its only byb`s that do the dodgy dirty dealings!!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

mazcamps said:


> how would they no it does happen


I don't know how they'd ever know, short of DNA testing. I suspect if DNA testing ever became compulsory there might be a lot of nasty shocks out there!

Liz


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## mazcamps (Mar 15, 2008)

i bet they would it would shake this thread wouldnt it


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

Anele - a lot of people agree with us - but it is Easter Sunday. Hopefully they will be in here tomorrow or Tuesday.



> pedigree but no papers.


What?! The name of the paper that you supply with your cat is the 'pedigree'. If you advertise 'pedigree but no papers' you are saying 'papers but no papers'. To have a pedigree cat you have to have the pedigree papers. It matters not one whit that you have cats that you believe to be purebred - if you advertise them as pedigree cats they have to have papers.

Here's the GCCF take on it

"When a cat or kitten is advertised or sold as a pedigree cat or kitten the breeder shall, at the time of sale, provide the purchaser with a properly completed pedigree signed by the breeder, carrying 3 generations at least, showing all the breed numbers and registration numbers, also the breeder's name and address."

You can see quite plainly there that a pedigree is the name of the paper showing the ancestry.



> So you think you are better than me then and you need to bring it down to my level?


I don't think I am better than you. I don't know you at all. However you do take the moral high ground over me, telling me I don't love my cats, and how it is wrong to make money from breeding. Take a bit of your own medicine, Alan. Don't think you can insult and patronise me publically and get away with it. If you are so insistent that nothing is wrong with what BYBs do and I find myself having to bring it down to the level of a bloke in a dirty mac for you to understand - then what can I do about it?



> I'm quite aware that there is nothing in it for me, it just annoys me that you are such a hypocrite.


In what way am I a hypocrite, Alan?



> Registered breeders have rules set in stone??? if so why..
> 1.is there a registered breeder advertising both registered and non registered cats on a internet site?
> 2.my friend took her unregistered cat to a gccf breeder to use her stud cat(a very successful show cat)and charged her £100.
> 3.breeders register kittens under false mothers names??
> Why would anyone go to trading standards because i didnt supply papers? if they wanted papers they would buy registered.


Registered breeders have a code of ethics that they have to adhere to. If your friend managed to get a mating with a showcat for only £100 then that breeder is doing herself and the breed no favours.
Registered breeders should not register kittens under false names.

You know some very dodgy people.

As for trading standards - I don't think your customers would want to go to trading standards. But certainly a registered and bitter Ragdoll breeder might want to have you closed down.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

closed down? from breeding a few pet cats?i dont know why you had to drag this up again,from a totally unrelated thread.Do you have any views on the origional question?


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> closed down? from breeding a few pet cats?i dont know why you had to drag this up again,from a totally unrelated thread.Do you have any views on the origional question?


I know yeah, can we just stick to the thread subject, im sure some people are just here to try and wind others up


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## SavannahKitten (Mar 9, 2008)

> closed down? from breeding a few pet cats?i dont know why you had to drag this up again,from a totally unrelated thread.


You really don't have a clue how hated and despised BYBs are do you?
And why do you want the thread back on track now? You and your friends have spent .. what.. five pages discussing things that are totally off topic.

I'm sure a mod will split it off.. or delete the thread if they deem it unsuitable.

Personally I sincerely hope that it is kept as an educational thread. And when my registered breeder friends have finished chomping on their easter eggs I'm sure they will have more to add.


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## petforum (Oct 30, 2007)

Closing this thread as it is now totally off-topic.


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