# Bit confused about exercise limits for puppies



## judetheobscure (Feb 24, 2009)

I'm trying to stick to the rule of thumb of 5 minutes exercise per month old of puppy, twice a day (as suggested by Kennel Club). However, does play in the garden count as exercise? It doesn't seem very much and Bella shows no signs of being tired after her walks. On the other hand she's not bouncing off the walls when she's indoors - sleeps most of the time when not being played with. Just interested in people's thoughts.


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2009)

What breed is she and how old is she. Play is not taken as part of the walking time.


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

i use it actual walking on lead time, But not playing in garden or with dog friends
zebs 5months so he can go for a pretty good walk now, But he also gets around 60minutes each morning off lead playing with his friends down the field. He doesnt get a big walk before or after tho as its also 3mins away from our house. Because hes playing he'll lay down when hes had enough e.t.c


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2009)

I think there is alot of confusion about this.

I mean running on soft ground has to be alot less damaging than pounding a hard pavement???

Also mine belts around the garden a fair bit with the children too.

I always watched Oscar and found i could see when he had had enough.

From about 5 months He would have 30 minutes free running round the park (soft ground). 20 minutes hard pavement walking later in the day (school run)and then unlimited running about round the house with the kids but that was specific to him.


----------



## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

When we first walked Mika i only took him to the park for 15 minutes because he's so tiny and i didn't want to do any damage to his bones by walking him too long. One day i forgot about the 5 min rule and went into automatic and took him for a walk for about 25 - 30 minutes. When i realised half way through my walk what i did it didn't seem to bother him. He wasn't tired or anything and just wanted to have fun. So since then he's been out for a walk with me and Dante on our 25-30 min walks and he loves it - but he does have a long nap afterwards lol!


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2009)

Playing doesn't count! because he can run and play and stop and lay when he likes!! the rule I understood was for lead exercise
DT


----------



## judetheobscure (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks for the replies.

She's an English Setter, nearly 4 months old so according to the guidelines she should be having no more than 20 minutes walks, twice a day. I have occasionally got my walking route timing wrong and she's still been going strong after 30 or more minutes. And when she's in the garden she tears up and down - if anything more energetically than when on a walk as she's always on lead on walks. I would have thought her garden play was more damaging to her hips than her walks? But the sum total of 40 minutes exercise for her doesn't seem much as she could easily do more. On the other hand she doesn't run around much in the house


----------



## Guest (Apr 30, 2009)

I found that walking to somewhere having a break and then back so it's not continuous helped.

It was a great excuse to stop at the park cafe for latte and chocolate


----------



## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

We agonized over all of this when ours were pups. But when you actually look into the research you realise there is no research to back up any of the (often conflicting) theories. So, pick out a theory that you like the sound of and go with it - there is no right or wrong.

As far as I could figure, most of the stuff about restricting exercise comes from the fact that certain breeds are prone to Hip Dysplasia. But if a dog isn't born with the 'defect' then no amount of exercise will bring it on. Also, the most recent research is starting to show that doing MORE exercise when the pup is young might be the way to protect the joints of affected dogs. 

Another issue is the fact that the growth plates are still open and that growth plate injuries *can* result in a crippled dog. But to put that in perspective the same is true of human children - in fact their growth plates don't close until 20 years old or so!

There aren't really any other physical issues. Giant breeds are a concern, breeds prone to hd and other such hereditary conditions are a concern. Obviously from a behavioural/development point of view you don't want to be driving a pup or putting it under pressure. But this notion that on-lead must be restricted but not off-lead....that's a bit simplistic. If you know your dog and you're attentive then on-lead is fine. Jogging is fine if you let your dog call the shots. If your dog isn't able to get daily off-lead play then you really need to make up for it in other ways - if on-lead is the only way....

30% of the nations dogs and humans are obese. This leads to shortened life, joint problems, early arthritis and a whole host of illnesses. A huge health problem. The response with children is to advice parents to encourage LOTS of exercise. The NHS recommends significantly more for kids than it does for adults. They wont risk advising this with dogs because so many breeds are badly screwed up and it's not known whether they can stand normal, healthy exercise. But there is no research to support the notion that healthy puppies should be treated differently from human children when it comes to exercise. Watch them closely, protect them from themselves sometimes, let them learn from their mistakes others, let them be all they can be and grow into strong, confident adults with a zest for life!


----------



## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I used the 5 minute rule like this:

When Charlie was 4 months old we walked the 5 minutes to a local field, walked round the field, then 5 minutes home. Technically he should have only had 10 minutes at the field, but since it was soft ground I let him have 15-20. 

We did this twice a day as we'd planned to walk him twice a day as an adult. 

At home we often played in the garden, and in the house. 

He wasn't allowed to climb/run up and down the stairs though and we tried to discourage games that made him jump up, to protect his developing joints. 




Its especially important for breeds sucecptible to joint problems, but many people also don't stick to the 5 minute rule and are fine. Its a personal choice. Like everything else.


----------



## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

Sadly it's not the case that 'if the pup hasn't got the gene for HD that no amount of exercise will give it HD' :-( I've seen a pup who grew up to have incredibly damaged hips - not quite HD but same effect as a result of over exercise. It was amazingly high, but even so...

I would be very careful of over exercising and definitely stop any pup racing up and down stairs and in and out of backs of cars. The 5 minute rule on lead is a good one to follow and also not allowing the pup to play with bigger/rougher dogs as this can cause them to over extend themselves and the roughness can damage them by rolling them over etc.

Play with similar size/age or smaller/gentler dogs isn't a problem as long as pup is allowed to sleep and recuperate.

Please be careful with your pup - all are at risk from over exercise/rough play until their growth plates have closed.


----------



## Rekha Leo (Nov 24, 2010)

What are all the small trainings can we give them during 5 - 10 minutes walk??


----------



## creativesam (Mar 3, 2012)

I know this is a probably a silly question, but when would you expect their growth plates to close. 

Sammy


----------



## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

Penny, I don't think there's any dispute that over-exercising is bad. By definition of course it is. The question is what constitutes OVER-exericse? And the jury is still out on that one.

Take a look at this article:

Exercise in Puppies-Are there rules? | The SkeptVet Blog

I searched high and low and asked vets, physios etc - no one could come up with a single bit of research that disputed what this vet is saying.

If you actually look at the available research rather than 'popular internet wisdom' you see a very different picture painted. As with deciding how to raise kiddies, you have to go with your gut really because at the end of the day know one really knows what's best. It's all just theories, personal experiences and guesswork.

Growth plate closure varies - can be as little as 9 months in small breeds and much later in large breeds. In humans it's (I think) 18 years old for females and more like very early 20's for males. Accidents are the most common cause of growth plate injuries - could be from running wild in the park; could be from falling off a sofa at home. In super-extreme cases it could be caused by pounding (excessive lead walking), but you're talking marathon running type stuff!


----------



## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

The problem with over exercise is NOT that it damages growth plates, but that until the growth plates are closed the pup is in danger of damaging other aspects, mostly joints (esp in the case of HD). Too much exercise too soon has been known to cause significant problems - it's mostly the type of exercise - hence the 5minute rule for lead exercise.. I try to keep to a minimum rough play with older/bigger dogs, no stairs (especially down) and no jumping in or out of car boots...

My pups get plenty of exercise and plenty of rest - I haven't had a problem, but then I do try and avoid it.

I've seen pups with knackered hips due to allowing them to run down stairs and particularly to do twisting and jumping - one poor pup doing agility at the old height (of 2'6") at 6 months of age, no wonder this dog's hips were shot at a year old. It's not HD, but the effect is the same.


----------



## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

I had the same confusion with my black lab pup because keeping to the rules just didn't seem to give her enough exercise, even though she was allowed to race around a large garden throughout the rest of the day. I kept to the rules for a long time but by 8 mths, I decided that she really did need to stretch herself more, so I allowed her to run on the flat as much as she wanted. She is now 9 mths and given time off-leash for the majority of her walks, although she is not allowed to jump into the boot or over stiles. Her upper body is visibly respondong to the exercise, although her back legs are still struggling with river banks etc. I don't know what the KC would say but I reckon that we are still taking things 'at her own pace' until her legs are much stronger. I think the guide lines are helpful but if you have a high-energy dog; then a bit of common sense is needed. Health & happiness need to be weighed together IMO x


----------



## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

PennyGC said:


> The problem with over exercise is NOT that it damages growth plates, but that until the growth plates are closed the pup is in danger of damaging other aspects, mostly joints (esp in the case of HD). Too much exercise too soon has been known to cause significant problems - it's mostly the type of exercise - hence the 5minute rule for lead exercise..


Penny, as I said to you before, I doubt anyone would dispute that too much exercise is bad. The problem is, the experts don't know how much is too much. Nor do they know how much is enough. But the fact that 30% of the nation's dogs are obese suggests that most aren't getting enough!

Common sense dictates that exercise requirements will vary enormously according to breed.

In the March '08 edition of the Your Dog Magazine a reader questioned the accepted wisdom about restricting exercise in puppies (i.e. putting a time limit on it rather than giving them as much as they wanted). A response was provided by leading expert in the field, John Innes:



> Appropriate levels of exercise are important for the developement of the muscularskeletal system. Experiments in young dogs have shown that extreme exercise (for example, running for 40km each day for 15 weeks) can cause some mild degenerative changes in joints, but <*while excessive exercise could therefore be damaging in the long term, I am not sure, if the dog is otherwise healthy, that there is any scientific evidence that restricting exercise is necessary*. Of course, some dogs may have developmental orthopaedic disorders as they grow, and it is possible that, given relatively more exercise, some of these disorders may be exacerbated


So - excessive is potentially harmful which is commons sense really. But there's a huge gulf between running a marathon a day for 15 weeks and the 5 minute rule (which for many dogs is harmfully inadequate).

The area in which puppies *possibly* differ from human children with regards to response to exercise is that in *certain breeds* there is a high incident of HD. But in actual fact, even in HD prone pups the effect of exercise is unknown. Even here it's pure guesswork with differing viewpoints from the experts. For example:

Sirius Dog


> *John C. Cargill MA MBA MS & Dr. Susan Thorpe-Vargas wrote:*
> 
> Genetics is the foremost causative factor of canine hip dysplasia. Without the genes necessary to transmit this degenerative disease, there is no disease. Hip dysplasia is not something a dog gets; it either is dysplastic or it is not. An affected animal can exhibit a wide range of phenotypes, all the way from normal to severely dysplastic and functionally crippled. Hip dysplasia is genetically inherited.





> *John C. Cargill MA MBA MS & Dr. Susan Thorpe-Vargas wrote:*
> 
> In the first article we said that the first six months of a puppy's life seem to be a critical time of development. The rate of growth can be astonishing. When one thinks of the number of things that could go wrong as an Akita puppy, for instance, goes from a birth weight of slightly more than 1 pound to 60 to 70 pounds in six months and then adds another 30 to 40 pounds by year end, it is amazing that most dogs mature without serious problems. It is during this period that dogs are most active. There is evidence to suggest that exercise is necessary to retain the depth of the acetabulum. How much exercise and of what type is unknown.





> *John C. Cargill MA MBA MS & Dr. Susan Thorpe-Vargas wrote:*
> 
> ..there may be exercise and diet factors at play, and that various breeds may respond to these factors in different ways. It would be reasonable to conclude that there is probably an amount of exercise during a genotypically dysplastic puppy's rapid growth period where phenotypic expression is mitigated, delayed, or both.





> *John C. Cargill MA MBA MS & Dr. Susan Thorpe-Vargas wrote:*
> 
> There is some evidence that preventing rapid growth reduces the extent to which the adult dog will manifest hip dysplasia. Decreasing the dog's food consumption during its growth period seems to correlate well with normal hips.


The pathogenesis and diagnosis of canine hip dysplasia: a review.



> *C L Fries and A M Remedios wrote: *
> 
> *Exercise*
> Exercise has not been shown to specifically contribute to the development of hip dysplasia, but it has not been studied as intensively as nutrition. Intuitively, if hip dysplasia is a biomechanical disease caused by overstressing the immature skeleton, exercise may speed the development of degenerative changes in dogs with
> ...





> *C L Fries and A M Remedios wrote: *
> 
> *Nutrition and rapid growth*
> Nutrition is a major environmental factor influencing the development of hip dysplasia. It may change the frequency and severity in genetically predisposed individuals, but it does not cause hip dysplasia. No dietary deficiencies are known to influence the development of hip dysplasia, but current research suggests that dietary excesses are important contributing factors


The very latest research (published this year) threw up some surprising things. I don't have a link handy to the study but will find it later and post it up. But from memory it was the first three months of the pup's life that was critical. In the extensive study, pups that got daily off lead play at the park on undulating ground had the best hips. Those with restricted exercise did badly. As did those that were allowed to climb stairs in the first three months. Facilitating plenty of exercise rather than limiting it is what protected the pups best. This study also failed to support the idea that growth rate was a factor in HD severity.


----------



## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

I think I may have to repeat stuff here :-(

The five minute rule is for on lead exercise only - because you're 'forcing' the pup to do more than it might otherwise, the same really for hard exercise/play with other dogs, particularly bigger and older dogs. Racing around and having fun on their own or with pups of similar age size isn't included.

Exercise is important - just don't overdo. It's easy to spot when they've done too much, they're exhausted and too much of this will indicate you may be giving overall too much. Build it up slowly and let them have longer over time.

You wont find any of my dogs either overweight or with knackered limbs due to over exercise - it's a question of balance. I don't run my dogs for hours on a long walk until they're capable - but they do have lovely (shorter) walks without steep climbs or drops. My 8/9 month old pup is now having a couple of hours on the beach which I wouldn't let him do before but he's built up to this and he doesn't do it every day, or even every week!


----------



## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

Penny, you don't have to defend your choices - I'm not criticizing them!! Whatever people decide is best for their dogs I think we all have to respect - after all, people know their own dogs best. 

Your interpretation of the 5 minute rule is that it's for onlead exercise only. Other people have grafted their interpretation onto it. There is no right and wrong interpretation as it was simply thought up on a whim by a lab breeder who kept getting asked by new lab owners how much exercise to give. It was never set out in detail.

Some people can't exercise their pups off-lead. Some breeds can't be trusted off-lead; some people don't have access to safe parks; some people prefer to wait until they have solid recall. It's crazy to suggest that those dogs should have less exercise than off-lead dogs because the owner has to keep the lead on. Most people are more than capable of spotting when their on-lead dog has had enough. Perhaps more so than an off-lead dog because when off-lead they can get very excited and not notice they're tired.

As you say, it's easy to spot when they've had too much so why get hung up about a 5 minute rule. If your dog thrives on twice as much, three times as much so be it! Trust your pup - not an arbitrary rule!

As the vet in the article I posted earlier said :



> The research evidence, then, really does not provide anything like a definitive answer to questions about the effects of exercise in growing puppies. Common sense suggests that forcing a dog to exercise heavily when it does not wish to is not a good idea. Likewise, puppies sometimes have more enthusiasm than sense and can exercise to the point of heat exhaustion, blistered footpads, and other damage that may be less obvious. Therefore, a general principle of avoiding forced or voluntary extreme exercise is reasonable, but specific and absolute statements about what kind of exercise is allowed, what surfaces puppies should or should not exercise on, and so forth is merely opinion not supported by objective data. Such opinions may very well be informed by personal experience, and they may be reliable, but any opinion not founded on objective data must always be taken with a grain of salt and accepted provisionally until such data is available.


----------



## Cayley (Jul 21, 2018)

After reading this I’m getting a bit nervous. 

So, what is the consensus of rough play with dogs? (My pup’s favourite type of play.) I want her to learn social cues. I let her approach all dogs, so long as the owner says it’s okay. Some like her, others tell her to go away. Either way she learns. She now knows which dogs like which play and plays differently with different dogs. She won’t even approach some dogs, while others she is confident to trot up to...

However, if I keep breaking up her play as a pup when she has puppy licence with older dogs, how will she learn what is too much or learn their body language and change her play for when she is older? 

And yes, my pup has been body slammed many times by bigger dogs. She has played for hours with our friends 3 year old. But the play changes. It’s intense, then lazy, then short rest, then wrestling... then eventually both dogs pass out. (This has only happened a few times though, so it’s not a regular occurrence.) 

I read that it was only lead walking/hard surfaces that were the problem and that playing didn’t count... now I’m reading differently.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

We have a big breed I stuck to the 5 min. rule util Dillon was well over 12 months lead walking on the road, play is different on grass as long as you don't over do it. Dillon was 18 months old before I was completely happy throwing the rule book away.


----------

