# Drinking bowl for messy Persian



## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Hello out there

I would appreciate if anyone could point me out to correct place..
My Exotic Shorthair ( I did put Persian as thread name as it should be even more relevant to longhairs) is super messy lady, after drink she has all chin soaking wet and that's wen she digs into dry food bowl.
So white chin is.. well brown/yellow.. Don't have a clue - how to keep her white?
Unfortunately water bottle doesn't work for us ( super stubborn kitten) and I am not home all day to actually wipe her constantly..
I have been advised by our breeder to get a self filling water bowl where the actual drinkable area is egg cup sized, basically so my messy beast can't get her head in there lol
I have searched for ages, came across this one on eBay and it was sold straight after I found it 

Has someone seen something similar and would give me some lead - where to find it?

Thank you


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

I wouldn't got for a small bowl, to be honest - Persians and Exotics hate putting their heads in a small hole due to their face shape. It's why you need wide bowls for them to eat from. Cats generally won't drink from bottles at all, it's not natural for them.

My friend breeds Persians and bought one of these bowls last year:

http://www.torusbowl.com/

The 1 litre size I think. She says it's great for keeping them drier as they have to lean over the edge so their chest is out the way (I'm kind of assuming here that you meant her chest was getting messy, not just her chin!).

If I were you I'd also ditch the dry food and feed grain free wet food, the colourants in dry food won't be helping keep her clean, and dry food isn't good for cats anyway.

Hope that helps!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I have never heard of a cat using a water bottle! Aren't they intended for small animals like hamsters? 

I'd suggest getting her a water fountain, the type where there is not much in the bowl at a time.

Maybe something like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fountain-C...r=1-1-spons&keywords=pet+water+fountain&psc=1

But as your kitty is a flat faced breed she is going to find it quite hard to lap water because of the shape of her face. Cats are not natural drinkers anyway.

It would be better to feed her a mostly wet food diet so she can get her fluids in her food as nature intends for cats. I assume she manages to eat wet food OK does she?


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Jesthar Thank you for your suggestion, will try it out. Especially if Persian owner has given a good feedback.
And I meant chest as well, not just chin.. That's just my poor English, apologies..

I have seen several videos where cats actually uses water bottles.. But I have given up..

I have spent a bit of time on here reading before joining, I tend to agree that raw would be better.. However for a week trying to get her to try some and no success.. Tried chicken chunks, liver, hearts - she doesn't show interest in any of that.
Husband bought wet food pouches- Gourmet. She loves that however I do not know anything about wet foods and which ones are good.. 

A bit of off-topic.. 
She was fed Arden Grange, read some reviews and slowly switched her to Royal Canin.. After 2 months being on RC she has started to moult as a hell, I believe she has lost at least a third of her fur .. So slowly moving her back to original AG, and fingers crossed she will get better. Winter is not actually the time for massive moulting is it? And nothing else except of food has been changed (same temperature at home etc).


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Vantuuz said:


> I have spent a bit of time on here reading before joining, I tend to agree that raw would be better.. However for a week trying to get her to try some and no success.. Tried chicken chunks, liver, hearts - she doesn't show interest in any of that.
> Husband bought wet food pouches- Gourmet. She loves that however I do not know anything about wet foods and which ones are good..


Gourmet isn't great, it's got a lot of grains and sugars in it, but any wet food she will eat is better for her than the best dry, as it is much closed to a natural diet than biscuits. And it's a starting point for getting her on to better brands.



Vantuuz said:


> A bit of off-topic..
> She was fed Arden Grange, read some reviews and slowly switched her to Royal Canin.. After 2 months being on RC she has started to moult as a hell, I believe she has lost at least a third of her fur .. So slowly moving her back to original AG, and fingers crossed she will get better. Winter is not actually the time for massive moulting is it? And nothing else except of food has been changed (same temperature at home etc).


Royal Canin is, unfortunately, not a very good brand of food - it's supermarket quality with a big price markup - again, lots of grains and other unnecessary junk. Arden Grange is at least grain free, but if you can get her on to wet, it will be much better for her.

Are you in the UK?


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Yes, I'm in UK
Could you advice some decen wet foods we could try?
And would she need a slow introducing as we did when changed from AG to RC dry?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Vantuuz said:


> Yes, I'm in UK
> Could you advice some decen wet foods we could try?
> And would she need a slow introducing as we did when changed from AG to RC dry?


You could try Butchers Classic to start with, you can get that from most supermarkets and Pets at Home. It's grain free, but cheaper than Whiskas and Felix (which do have lots of grain in). It does have a lot of jelly, which might tempt her. I have it in my food rotation.

A lot of us buy our food online, though - I buy Smilla and Animonda Carny from Zooplus as main foods, along with occasional packs of Grau, CatzFineFood and Feringa as treats. I also buy MACs from the Happy Kitty Company as my other main food. Dry food (Applaws in my case) is reserved for shows and travel only. Charlie-girl (the black cat in my avatar) also has Nutriment raw food, which she loves


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Add my vote to the wet diet.

Regarding the small animal water bottle I tried to train one of my cats to it years ago. She was a poor drinker, on a "special diet" for urinary tract disorder (what a racket) I hated her being on a dry diet and she rarely drank. I had heard of cats using one, so I tried but wasn't successful. Considering how she never drank anyway I'm not sure why I thought it might work.

I finally smartened up and got her off the corn in a bag junk, went to canned for her, then raw. Now drinking isn't an issue. A canned (or raw, or both) fed cat rarely drinks, if at all. None of my cats drink. ever.

(Raw fed would be great for her, chunks would be easy for her I bet, no mess on the chin or face.  )


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Thank you all. I just ordered Smilla and Carny wet food for my little messy to try. 
How to better introduce the new wet food to her? I don't want to mix wet and dry.. 
To be fair she has a bit of dry food in ther bowl all the time. Should I just give wet 2x a day and leave dry there as well so she can have that if fancies? 
And after a while on the wet will try to move to the raw.. Like that there are some bones etc included for teeth. As vet did mention that dry food is better to avoid tooth problems at some point.. 
Really hope this will improve her fur as well ( that she will moult less).. She is 7 months now, so still young and growing.. I have already messed up too much


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Vantuuz said:


> Thank you all. I just ordered Smilla and Carny wet food for my little messy to try.
> How to better introduce the new wet food to her? I don't want to mix wet and dry..
> To be fair she has a bit of dry food in ther bowl all the time. Should I just give wet 2x a day and leave dry there as well so she can have that if fancies?
> And after a while on the wet will try to move to the raw.. Like that there are some bones etc included for teeth. As vet did mention that dry food is better to avoid tooth problems at some point..
> Really hope this will improve her fur as well ( that she will moult less).. She is 7 months now, so still young and growing.. I have already messed up too much


You haven't messed up  Just been mislead a bit, that's all - and at least you are asking the right questions! Many don't even ask...

I'd eventually want to take up the dry completely, to be honest, or at least put down a measured amount. It's not really good for her. I feed my mogs wet food morning and evening (leaving down until the next meal as my house is cool enough to do that), they only get dry food for shows and travel. Cat's aren't designed to graze, they are designed for a number of small meals per day - i.e. whenever they catch a mouse to eat.

However, at 7 months your cat is still a kitten and growing fast, so basically she should be allowed to eat as much as she likes for now. She needs it!

You are correct that you shouldn't mix we and dry food in the same bowl. Personally I have never done a slow transition for foods, just put a new one straight down, but mogs tend to be more robust that some pedigrees when it comes to food. If you do want to try a transition, then you should weight the dry food and put down less than the recommended amount, then put some wet down in a separate bowl. If all goes well, increase the amount of wet and reduce the amount of dry. If she empties both bowls, then as she is a kitten put more wet down whenever that bowl is empty. You may find that your cat will refuse to eat the wet if dry is down, though - some get addicted to it.

Dry food isn't better for teeth as cats don't chew it, so it either is swallowed whole or shatters and coats the teeth in biscuit crumbs. A raw chicken wing tip is a much better toothbrush for kitty teeth


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

In fact there is no research to show that dry food is any better for a cat's teeth than wet food. So it is a bit of myth that it prevents problems. Cats either crunch dry food or gulp it down whole neither of which cleans plaque off the teeth.

On the other hand there is a wealth of evidence (even if mostly anecdotal). that dry food is bad for the bladder, kidneys and bowel, as well as being a major cause of obesity because of the high carb content.

If you're going to try and transfer kitty to wet food, and then raw, I would stop leaving any dry food down now, or she will just snack on that and you will be no further forward. If she will eat wet food Ok I would do away with the dry food altogether. If you are out in the daytime, leave her a wet meal (or two) in an autofeeder, timed to open 4 hours after her breakfast and then 4 hours after that for the next meal. I used these feeders all the time for my cats when I was out at work all day.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Cats/Mat...84841754&sr=8-1&keywords=cat+mate+auto+feeder

EDIT - cross posted with Jesthar


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Well at the moment she eats all wet when it's put down and then top ups from dry which is in the bowl all the time. I have been advised to allow her to eat as much as she wants so I just top up her bowl when it's empty. However she tends to eat twice a day, obviously sticking to my routine. Even on weekends when we are home all day she eats only twice..
If the new wet food will go down same as that Gourmet stuff, I will delete dry from her ration straight away..

Look how the bowl question has ended up being a great food advice. Thank you.. 

I agree that chicken wing would help the teeth however at the moment she refuses to even look to it lol

Will let you know how wet feeding goes.. thank you again


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm the person Jesther was referring to and find the Taurus bowls great. If they're a real bib dipper then they sill still get a wet face, but thankfully they work very well for my guys. I think your breeder might have been talking about the Vida Mansa bowls, as these refill and have a drinking opening like an egg cup. This means that they don't have to put their heads into a bowl and don't get whisker stress from doing so. Instead, they lap straight from the little cup and there's literally nowhere for them to dip their bibs/chins into. I love them in terms of design, but just couldn't get along with them as I'm blind and kept bumping into them whish resulted in lots of water spilled. If you're still interested in these, I do have a couple that I'd be willing to part with.


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Carly Thank you for pointing out in the correct direction. I assume this might be the one that our breeder was talking about.. I just couldn't find it. And would like to try it out..
If you are ok to let one of them go, please send me pm, will agree monies etc 
My Miss Messy just had a wet food and dipped into water bowl straight after that.. So walking around dripping lol


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Sorry, but for some reason I can't send a PM through to you. Are you able to log onto my website and contact me through there? I can then go and dig one out for you.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

I don't think they have enough posts to PM yet, @carly87 - I think you need 20 posts minimum


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Oh, I don't have enough posts yet..however I managed to find your website, I will send you email
PS My name is Evita


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Haven't had a chance to check yet but will write as soon as I get a minute.


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Just an update on the feeding. She is on the wet only at the moment (bag of RC probably will be donated to the Rescue if they will take it). While we were waiting Smilla and Carny to be delivered I got some Butchers Classic.
She eats BC fine, Carny goes down good. However Smilla she is not even touching. Just sits next to full dish and waits for something else lol
Since she is on wet only, she is not drinking at all. At least I haven't seen her drinking and bowl is constantly full. 
And YES! No more mess on her coat.. There are still yellowish patch from before which hopefully will come out in next few baths.. 
Still moulting a lot but I assume it takes longer time to get that sorted (IF it was food's fault).

Thank you for advices..


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Very pleased to hear switching to wet food sorted out the problem, as I hoped it would!  Well done


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Vantuuz said:


> Just an update on the feeding. She is on the wet only at the moment (bag of RC probably will be donated to the Rescue if they will take it). While we were waiting Smilla and Carny to be delivered I got some Butchers Classic.
> She eats BC fine, Carny goes down good. However Smilla she is not even touching. Just sits next to full dish and waits for something else lol
> Since she is on wet only, she is not drinking at all. At least I haven't seen her drinking and bowl is constantly full.
> And YES! No more mess on her coat.. There are still yellowish patch from before which hopefully will come out in next few baths..
> ...


Quick message from Carly, her internet is broken and awaiting an engineer visit to try and fix..

I'm so glad the wet food is helping, and that she likes BC and Carny. What flavours of Smilla have you tried? Mine eat most of them, but last time I decided to try the fish ones for a bit of variety and they are NOT fans of them. The tuna in particular is detested and largely ignored. They love the veal, lamb, chicken, beef, rabbit and other non-fishy flavors though.


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

I ordered variety pack of Carny kitten, she eats all of them. Haven't noticed any preferences. And ordered Smilla kitten with chicken.. that's the one she doesn't like.. 
I will just stick with Carny, we have eaten half of what I have so will be ordering more shortly. And will stick with variety pack so she has something slightly different each day. 
She still is moulting quite a lot, we had bath today.. My lord how much hair was in the comb.. I can see them everywhere around house.. Before you could take her in hands and NONE hairs were left on you. Now you can't even stroke her, they go everywhere.. 
I thought that excessive moulting was from change of food, now I don't even know..


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

A change in the amount of fur she is shedding could be due to the recent colder weather in the UK, i.e. perhaps you have had your heating turned up higher (I know I have in my house)

Hormonal changes can be a cause of changes in shedding - is your kitten spayed?

If you feed her a good quality wet food diet her coat should improve. Carny is a good food but I would add another one or two different good makes of food so all nutritional bases are covered. Also then you are less reliant on one food, if one make is suddenly discontinued (it happens). Feringa Kitten food (Zooplus) is a good make, and also Granatapet for kittens (from The Happy Kitty Co.)

http://www.happykittycompany.co.uk/collections/cat-food/products/granatapet-kitten-poultry-200g


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

I noticed more shedding approx 2 months ago, and it looks even worse now. She prefers the coldest places in the house, that's for sure. And my house always is quite warm, I'm freezing all the time. So she started to shed more approx two months after came to our place.. Then she was 5 months old. Now she is 7.
She is not sprayed and is on active register. Her breeder entrusted me this beautiful girl.. 
Have read a lot and As breeding is quite complicated, we still haven't decided if we are going this route.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

OK, well the shedding could be due to hormonal changes as I imagine she has already started calling? Particularly as she is seeking out the coldest places in the house. 

Hopefully you will be deciding quite soon whether or not to breed from her ? Not good for her to keep coming into call and not being mated as it can lead to a serious womb infection called pyometra, which I expect your kitten's breeder has already warned you about.. 

First time breeders usually have a 'mentor' to guide them through all that is involved with breeding. Perhaps the kitten's breeder is your mentor? Maybe talk things through with her to see if you really do want to go ahead. Kitty is certainly very beautiful


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Well she hasn't had any calls yet and is seeking for cold places from day one. Prefers to lay next to doors and near windows..
Breeder has allowed me to decide myself if I want to breed her and I know I'm running out of time. I'm comforting myself that she hasn't had any calls yet so I have some time.. 
Our breeder has retired but is very helpful if we have any questions and has offered a help to find a stud buy when needed that would suit our girl.. 
she is beautiful, however not ideal and I can see which areas I would like to improve. 
And it's easy to come addicted to the breed, I would love to have one more exotic, and ideally would like it to be bred by me..
But as I am aware of how time consuming is to have a litter it's not so easy to make a decision..


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## SpringDance (Mar 18, 2016)

But she has such a flat, flat face! Would it really be wise to breed from and encourage? She's already had eating and drinking problems. Sorry to be so negative.


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Spring dance, she is an exotic shorthair. They do have flat faces.
And she hasn't had problems with eating or drinking. I had them. She CAN eat dry and wet and drink, It was me who was fissy that couldn't keep her tidy enough according to my standard..


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

SpringDance said:


> But she has such a flat, flat face! Would it really be wise to breed from and encourage? She's already had eating and drinking problems. Sorry to be so negative.


Exotic shorthairs are short coat Persians, SD. Their faces are supposed to be flat - a straight line from the forehead through the tip of the nose to the chin is the TICA breed standard atm. It does make them _messier_ eaters and drinkers than doll nosed or full nosed cats, but in a well bred cat it shouldn't cause actual problems. Cats with undershot or overshot jaws should, of course, not be bred from.

The other face related health issue to watch out for, of course, is breathing - the short nose can lead to breathing issues in poor lines where the nostrils end up too small and/or squashed to function correctly. A cat who is a noisy breather or who is often short of breath should not be bred from.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Internet is back!

What breeder/line is your girl from? Is your breeder going to mentor you through the first breeding? Exotics and Persians are not for the faint hearted, and certainly not for a first timer without a really good mentor and lots of research. Have you showed her at all to get the measure of her and get other peoples' opinions on her?


The flat face wouldn't put me off breeding on its own. If she has noisy breathing then I'd dismiss her as a breeding queen. Have you looked at her bite? If she is very undershot, as some very flat faced ones are, then I would also think long and hard about breeding from her.

You say that there are things about her you feel could be better. This is good. Keep this in mind when selecting your stud boy, and make sure that he has the bits that she doesn't, otherwise you won't be able to improve on what you see as faults.

I've bred Persians for some years now, so if I can be of any help to you, do just give me a shout.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

@carly87 , I can pop up some pics of yours as examples if you want?


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## SpringDance (Mar 18, 2016)

I know the face is supposed to be flat for the breed. Doesn't mean it's ok or desirable, though for the sake of the animal. There's flat and there's flat.

Anyway, it's probably best I leave the thread now. Good luck with everything

ETA

While flat nose breeds are not my preference, I don't have a problem with carefully bred flatter nosed animals... I just prefer animals to be bred where no potential problems can come from the stylised breeding (like the german shepherd at crafts, for example).


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Preserving a breed is a passion, not something that gets decided on a whim or when 'running out of time'

Many spend years showing neuters, learning, developing an eye for the standard, networking - gaining friends and mentors to help them, having a real love for the breed before deciding to make that next step.
As joyful as breeding is, it can also be extremely hard, if you don't that have passion behind you & breeding goals in mind it would be even harder.


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Carly, 
Glad that you have sorted your internet, it can be very annoying to be without it.. 
Will try to answer your questions, 

Tori is from Bronjoy cattery, our breeder is very helpful and I haven't had any problems to receive a support and answers to all my questions. I even think sometimes that I might sound too pestering. She has advised to consider very carefully before I decide to breed, as it involves much work and knowledge, it may lead to problems during pregnancy and giving a birth, lots of time to raise kittens and lots of finances as well.

She hasn't been to any shows yet, I do not consider her to be with suitable show temperament if you understand what I mean with that. And her enourmous shedding is not helping as well.. However would love other opinions on her.

She has no breathing problems. Her nostrils are quite decent size for the nose and no undershot or overshot bite.. As I mentioned she is not perfect, however she wouldn't be on active if she would not be suitable. Tough no one can tell if she will be good breeding queen or not..

I'm complete newby in all this, but IF I will breed then only to get better kittens than their mother. And would love to keep one for myself.. But this requires a lot of research in lines etc.. And this would be possible only with help of a good mentor, I clearly understand that.. 

Everyone is starting somewhere, and I consider myself to be quite responsible in my actions. I am aware about DNA and health tests needed, about importance in selection a stud boy etc And only because I understand it's not easy, I haven't decided. If I will do it I want it to be done correctly.. 

I find finding a stud boy quite tricky. To be fair I would like a Persian boy for her. But it's easier to say than do.. will be going to local Exotic Cat Club show next month, maybe will be lucky to meet new people.. 

Thank you for your kind offer of help, sometimes even little bit helps a lot.. 
like my original enquiry and advices that followed has sorted out my problem..


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If only all cats on the active were suitable for breeding from. 

Why do you think her temperament is unsuitable for showing, and what registry is she with?


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## Seegee (Jan 31, 2017)

Vantuuz said:


> Hello out there
> 
> I would appreciate if anyone could point me out to correct place..
> My Exotic Shorthair ( I did put Persian as thread name as it should be even more relevant to longhairs) is super messy lady, after drink she has all chin soaking wet and that's wen she digs into dry food bowl.
> ...


My persian drinks from a water bottle. If you google Bottle Babies Water Bottle you will find it. If you have a problem locating it, let me know.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Vantuuz said:


> I am aware about DNA and health tests needed


Langford recommend Polycystic Kidney Disease (PKD) and Persian Progressive Retinal Atrophy for Persians & Exotics. Hopefully she is negative by inheritance for PKD, but the test isn't expensive. If you join a breed society that has regisered with them you can get 20% off. If you are unsure about what she might carry colour-wise a lot of that can be tested for as well.

http://www.langfordvets.co.uk/diagn...eneral-info-breeders/genetic-diseases-and-cat
http://www.langfordvets.co.uk/diagn...eral-info-breeders/registered-breed-societies


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Your breeder is a very good breeder, thank goodness! Breeds some lovely cats and is a nice lady to boot.

Sounds like you've done your research re health tests etc. Your breeder is right though, definitely not something to be entered into lightly. If I can be of any help, you have only to ask.

Jes, I doubt pictures of mine would be of any use here as people have their opinions, and I don't know that a pic would change them.


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## Vantuuz (Jan 18, 2017)

Thank everyone for input in this. All your advice's have been taken on the board.

Thank you *Carly* for your kind words, I have been very, very lucky to meet Caroline in the correct time when we were looking for the kitten.. And it is good to hear same from someone in the breed.

*OrientalSlave*, she is registered under GCCF. On several occasions outside the house she has been very timid and shy. I have seen how cats have been judged at shows, my one wouldn't stay on the table to start with.. No way. She definitely wouldn't bite or scratch but wouldn't be very happy to be handled. And as cats are judged by temperament as well, I am confident she would not be a great show cat and I can't see her enjoy that. Plus the issue I had when I posted first ("nice" yellow coat on the chin and neck instead of white) - I was not actually been able to keep her coat in a proper show condition.. 
We have a great improvement at the moment, we are almost there  
She has lovely temperament, she is a sweet fluffy kitten however very independent. Very. You are allowed to stroke her only when SHE wants, she is NEXT to you, not ON you. She just walks away one meter from you and lays next to you and if you try to stroke her or take in to your lap when she is not in the mood to allow that, she will sit there with a face "Hurry up and let me go". And as soon as she can she walks away lol 
NOT a real lap cat but that is one of the things I love about her to be fair..

*Spotty Cats*, it might seem that I am doing everything from the wrong end, but please don't judge too hard. Everyone starts differently and certainly learns from their own mistakes and experience. I have "my perfect cat" in my mind, however I have heard that it is not popular or easy goal to achieve. And I am delaying as it is a big commitment to actually start it and you can't guess the future and know WHEN is the best time to start. I have a work, studying and two kids so I need to consider all very carefully. And it sounds like this overthinking has turned against me..

P.S. We have added Feringa and CatzFineFood to Carny. Kitty loves them, so I have a cupboad full of mixed flavour mixed brand wet foods..


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## Simon Jay (Mar 18, 2018)

Hi I sell these water bowls they are available now on eBay


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Closed this, as it's over a year old.


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