# Boerboels



## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi all, I'm new to the site, so thought this would be a good place to get some information on Boerboels / South African Mastiff.

I'm looking to find out peoples experiences of the breed, how easy have they been to train, etc... 

I'm very interested in getting one, and have been looking at various breeders websites for information, I want to hear from breeders, but I especially want to hear from non-breeders who just own or have owned them as pets.

Many thanks

Graham


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I looked into these and quickly came to the conclusion I didn't have the experience to handle them. They love their family anyone else who comes to the house without your invitation or being invited in by you could be at risk without a lot of socialisation and training. They're smart and learn fast but cannot be left alone for very long and cannot be kennelled outside they need to be inside with the family. They are huge and powerful and you have to be in control of them from puppies. The males are only for very very experienced owners the females are easier but still difficult. They are stunning dogs though

The UK breed club should be able to give you advice: http://www.ukbc.co.uk/


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks for the reply Nicky.

I'm an experienced dog owner, so I'm quite sure I'd be able to train one to a very good standard. The only concern I have is the inbuilt nature of the dog, which to an extent is genetic. I've also heard about what you said about them not taking kindly to strangers, but I suppose it depends on the breeding line and what the parents are like. I've known border collies, labs etc... that are aggressive to strangers, and also ones that are soft and friendly, although Boerboels are no doubt a completely different proposition. 

Good to hear they are smart and learn fast, should make them more responsive than a lot of other breeds to good training and socializing! 

Thanks again.

Graham


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It does depend on the dog definately but they do have a very strong guard instinct and don't take well to strangers in their territory especially if the humans aren't there. They are very intelligent and obedient. Do you have experience with other guard breeds? I would recommend it before you get one


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

There nice dogs, a natural gaurdian of the home, and often being a 150 pounds they are seriously powerful  They are very nice looking dogs imo, i would have one if they were a tad smaller and more agile so i could go out jogging with it.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

They're pretty agile bred to take down large game in Africa so they had to be


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

I guess another protential problem in the UK is finding a good reputable breeder, as from what i gather there a pretty rare breed in the UK.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I linked to the breed club theres a few breeders there how good they are is debateable though


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## kendal (Mar 24, 2009)

i know a gorguos big boy who is fantasticaly trained, and one of his owners is in a wheal chare. 
but his owner got a bitch almost a yeart ago i think and she said she was alot harder work. this person has ownd this breed for years when she lived in africa was when she first met them and fell in love. but even with exspearience of the breed you could have problems, i would say no if you dont have exsperience even with an other lar dog breed. 
if you want i can get you in contact with this person so you can ask her what she thinks.
this is the big boy i was talking about with two of my girls.


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> They're pretty agile bred to take down large game in Africa so they had to be


There are more agile dogs which are not far of the size of BB. But Boerboels are lovely looking dogs, and strong as an oxxx !


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> I linked to the breed club theres a few breeders there how good they are is debateable though


Im sure one of them will be a good breeder, but which one i dont know


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi, my daughters dads Mom have had Boerboels in SA. I think they had had about 6 now! They have just the one at the moment.

Briefly.....

They need an experienced and able handler/owner. They can be stubborn when it comes to training. And will NOT tolerate harsh handling/training. Training has to be firm but kind/fair. 

They are very good with kids providing the children are taught to be respectful and give the dog space when needed etc they will not tolerate teasing.


They need to learn to understand rules/bounderies of the household from the moment you get them. 

Most of this does apply to most dogs but BB's grow very big and extremely strong. So pulling on the lead is a big no-no, as is getting over excited when seeing other dogs.

They need to be socialised a lot, as they can have a very dominant streak and this streak must never be allowed to win over. 

Likewise never ever encourage a BB to be ''protective'' or to attack on command..........this cann go very drastically wrong. They are naturally a guarding dog so this does not need to be encouraged. 

But with all this in mind they are very loyal dogs, and can be ever so gentle (if clumsy sometimes haha!!) they can be trained fairly easy but as said can be stubborn so training is best done in short amounts regulary throughout the day rather than a big session.

They are also clowns!! Well i think they can be! Oumas dog stories make me laugh! 

They love to have fun with their 'family' and playing is a great way to bond.

Sorry this has been an essay! And i know i have more focused on the negatives per se but these need to be well understood before taking any breed of dog on. 
xx


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Im probably alone on this but I dont think this is a breed for British shores - we just cant offer it the room or activities to keep it happy. I dont see how keeping it on a lead for 15 years would be a good thing. I doubt they are a breed to roll over in a fight and all it needs is one agressive dog to take a pinch at it and youll have a police report the lenght of your arm - possibly leading to it being taken off you.

Id say they'd need acres of space, duties to perform and a someone who can have them work for purpose, something which just isnt on offer over here. 

Why do you want a BB ? Always been curious about people who want extreme protective breeds like this - they are not for the faint hearted is all id think.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

For me personally I like breeds that size, I like the temperment when they're well trained and socialised. But I agree they do need a special owner thats why I wouldn't get one without a lot more guard breed experience


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

james1 said:


> Im probably alone on this but I dont think this is a breed for British shores - we just cant offer it the room or activities to keep it happy. I dont see how keeping it on a lead for 15 years would be a good thing. I doubt they are a breed to roll over in a fight and all it needs is one agressive dog to take a pinch at it and youll have a police report the lenght of your arm - possibly leading to it being taken off you.
> 
> Im say they'd need acres of space, duties to perform and a someone who can have them work for purpose, something which just isnt on offer over here.
> Why do you want a BB ? Always been curious about people who want extreme protective breeds like this - they are not for the faint hearted is all id think.


What you have just said would go for some other breeds that are well established in Britain  so why not BB's?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

every Boerbel i have yet met, has been over-the-top aggressive + territorial - 
and as i have experience of many, many property + livestock guardians, i am not exaggerating in the least. 
Boerbels only became increasingly-popular in the USA over the past 20-years; they are still a very native-type breed, they have not been civilized or softened, as have Dobermans, GSDs, Rotts, etc, over decades of pet-keeping, rather than guard-owning.

this is NOT a dog i would recommend for an urban-environment, with neighbors close by, small properties, etc. 
there is serious risk of injury by the dogs, or the drastically-shortened lifespan of a Boerbel who is judged to be too aggro, 
and put down/euthed rather than attempting B-Mod.

as mentioned by several people already, they require the usual EXTENSIVE * ON-GOING * Socialization for 2-solid-years from pup-hood to 2-years-age, in order to get them to social-adulthood with a solidly established human and dog social attitude. this does not ** Cease! ** with 2-Years Age, but must continue thru out the dogs lifespan, as any extended period of being home-bound or not socializing with non-family will send them back to their normal-hermit attitude, and intolerance of non-family humans and non-family dogs. 
they are most-often WORSE vis-a-vis humans than they are other dogs - altho the Ms, particularly * when intact, * are even more ferocious in their intolerance of other dogs, than are the Fs. 
in sum, all i can say is - 
* meet both parents, if at all possible 
* choose a middling pup or more-submissive pup from the litter 
* be very aware that aversive-handling of pups will result in an un-trusting + volatile adult dog. 
* good luck.

all my best, 
--- terry


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Yeah I realised a lot of that very fast when I started learning about the breed. Not something I would want to get without a lot of experience with those kinds of breeds


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> What you have just said would go for some other breeds that are well established in Britain  so why not BB's?


As they're already estabilished in Britain people have a general idea of both their use and what to expect from them which with these isnt that common. 
Im more intererested in why the OP wouldnt go for a Rott, GSD, English Bull, even a Ridgy in place of a dog like this. I know a few people with protective breeds, they dont want to feel threatened when out either by people or other dogs. The thing is they (people) have control issues with their dogs which you dont need in this sort of breed ... its sort of the American thinking that 'they have a gun, ill get a bigger one', which to me is unfair on the dog and others.

Ive just read leashedforlifes post above .... similar thinking to the comments in that ..


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

james1 said:


> As they're already estabilished in Britain people have a general idea of both their use and what to expect from them which with these isnt that common.
> Im more intererested in why the OP wouldnt go for a Rott, GSD, English Bull, even a Ridgy in place of a dog like this. I know a few people with protective breeds, they dont want to feel threatened when out either by people or other dogs. The thing is they (people) have control issues with their dogs which you dont need in this sort of breed ... its sort of the American thinking that 'they have a gun, ill get a bigger one', which to me is unfair on the dog and others.
> 
> Ive just read leashedforlifes post above .... similar thinking to the comments in that ..


I wouldn't personally get a dog to look tough I'm 5'1" I don't think I could look hard if I tried I just like giant dogs. If I was to get a dog that size it would be trained and socialised from day 1 because a large powerful out of control dog is just a disaster waiting to happen.


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

I wonder if we have any BB owners on the board ?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

I too actually wonder if it is responsible to bring this breed to the uk. Can just imagine this sort of breed becoming popular with the scum bags - in no way applies to the op. 

We have enough of our own breeds to choose from. 

Good on u though for getting advice


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Why a Beorboel and not a Bullmastiff? There are already some fantastic Bullmastiff breeders here, and they look very like boerboels if its that look you're after.


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## Ridgielover (Apr 16, 2008)

A good friend of mine has this breed and has bred them. I'll see if I can get here to come on here later ....


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

james1 said:


> As they're already estabilished in Britain people have a general idea of both their use and what to expect from them which with these isnt that common.
> Im more intererested in why the OP wouldnt go for a Rott, GSD, English Bull, even a Ridgy in place of a dog like this. I know a few people with protective breeds, they dont want to feel threatened when out either by people or other dogs. The thing is they (people) have control issues with their dogs which you dont need in this sort of breed ... its sort of the American thinking that 'they have a gun, ill get a bigger one', which to me is unfair on the dog and others.
> 
> Ive just read leashedforlifes post above .... similar thinking to the comments in that ..


Maybe they just like the BB!! Just like many of us here choose to own certain breeds................simply because we like them!!

The BB can be a a great family/pet dog, providing the owners are willing to put in the work.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

My uncle has a BB, bought back to the UK from SA when they returned last year. He's the sweetest most loving slobbering mutt I've ever met (the dog not my uncle!!). He was a rescue they got to protect the home...turns out the biggest thing the dog protected them against was the monkeys cos people he just loves!!!!

I'm not a fan of mastiff type dogs but Worf (his BB..yes named cos he looks like the bloke in Star Trek) I would definately give a home to!!!


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

JSR said:


> My uncle has a BB, bought back to the UK from SA when they returned last year. He's the sweetest most loving slobbering mutt I've ever met (the dog not my uncle!!). He was a rescue they got to protect the home...turns out the biggest thing the dog protected them against was the monkeys cos people he just loves!!!!
> 
> I'm not a fan of mastiff type dogs but Worf (his BB..yes named cos he looks like the bloke in Star Trek) I would definately give a home to!!!


Ahhh thats a sweet story! Its nice to hear another good story about them. I am all for deed not breed so i try not to judge breeds on the ''horror stories''
xx


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

JSR said:


> My uncle has a BB, bought back to the UK from SA when they returned last year. He's the sweetest most loving slobbering mutt I've ever met (the dog not my uncle!!). He was a rescue they got to protect the home...turns out the biggest thing the dog protected them against was the monkeys cos people he just loves!!!!
> 
> I'm not a fan of mastiff type dogs but Worf (his BB..yes named cos he looks like the bloke in Star Trek) I would definately give a home to!!!


Aww it's good to hear the positive side he sounds great.


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

The reason I wanted the BB is because it is an unusual breed, and one with an interesting history. I wouldn't want a rott because the ones I have met have been too unpredictable. I know one person who has one with a good temperament. GSD's are nice dogs, however friends have them, and I'd prefer something different. I've never liked English bulls, and it is shallow but I don't think they are a nice looking dog. I wouldn't want anything small, staffs seem to be too hyper, bulldogs too prone to health problems. I was considering a Bordeaux, they are a great breed and very placid, so they are another option.

As for space, I have a huge garden for a BB to run around in, lots a
of parks nearby and beaches a short drive to the coast, so space and places for a BB to run around would not be an issue. 

However, the posting above that says basically ALL BB's are aggressive, i would just say that is like saying all pit bulls are aggressive. It's simply not true. It's down to the individual dog and how it gets raised, 99% of the time. Not that I would ever have a pit bull due to the public image and message they give out. I agree when you say it is better to go for a puppy that is middle of the pack, a puppy that is litter leader or the smallest that gets pushed out is probably asking for trouble, but that is the same with most breeds no matter how big or small. 

I will at least visit a breeder, so that I was familiarise myself with the breed, before making a concrete decision.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

We're not saying they're all aggressive in the right hands, very experienced guard breed hands, they're great dogs. If you're in the UK I hope you won't get a pitbull. A DDB might be a good choice


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> re st-bigmal -
> _ ...the posting above that says basically ALL BB's are aggressive, i would just say that is like saying all pit bulls are aggressive. It's simply not true. * It's down to the individual dog and how it gets raised, 99% of the time. * Not that I would ever have a pit bull due to the public image and message they give out. _


hey mal! :--) 
i did not say All Boerbels are aggro - i said that _*every single Boerbel that i have met has been Over-The-Top aggro, both territorially and toward strangers, and often towards non-family dogs, as well. * _ 
that has been my direct experience of this breed, without exception - whether they were reared by a pet-owner, reared + owned by the breeder, owned + trained by a dog-savvy handler with many years of guard-dog experience. 
the owners varied, the settings varied - from horse-country estates to urban rented homes, even multi-bedroom apartments; the DOGS did not vary.

U could not give me a Boerbel pup for Xmas, not with a bow round their neck and a sterling-silver tray that weighed as much as them, under their bottom to present them :lol: there are plenty of pitties that i would gladly take-home... 
and my most-recent heart-dog was an Akita bitch.  
i have trained and handled Anatolians, GSDs, Dobes, AmBulls, Kuvasz, Rotts, etc; i am familiar with many guard-breeds, and they are among my favorite dogs, as a group - far more so than any terrier, or even most companion-breeds; i like working dogs. :thumbsup: 
but a Boerbel is not one i would recommend; sorry, but there it is. :blush: they are IME self-willed, suspicious of everybody, and way too-much dog for me to justify. those i have met cannot attend any dog-event, period; they would work themselves into a lather, trying to assault every dog who came within 15-ft or less. 
i realize that *somewhere* there may be a friendly or at least stranger-tolerant Boerbel, but i have neither met one, nor seen one... yet.

my Akita, BTW, was a therapy-pet and often attended dog-events. that did not make her a wimp; we lived in black-bear country, and i did a lot of hiking. there was never a doubt in my mind, that if there was a threat, she would be * between * me + that threat - she did it as a matter of course. 
all my best, 
--- terry


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

What about Bullmastiffs? They are a lovely dog y'know.


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks terry, really appreciate the comments and your opinion. I've found some uk breeder websites who seem to be very responsible breeders, breeding BB's for a more mellow temperament. The breed is in it's infancy in the uk, so maybe at the moment it's not ideal, but given a few years of careful breeding they may be a more suitable option.

In reply to luvmydogs, I did consider a bullmastiff a while back, I know they are brilliant dogs, however i'm looking for something a bit rarer. I've grown up with labs, and had a border collie for the last 15 years so want something a bit unusual. The boerboel is a fantastic looking dog, and they seem incredibly loyal from what I've heard, the only question is over their approach to strangers, which something I need to look in to more. I must say though, if I choose not to go for a BB, a bullmastiff or a Dogue de Bordeaux will be at the top of the list!!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

saint_bigmal said:


> Thanks terry, really appreciate the comments and your opinion. I've found some uk breeder websites who seem to be very responsible breeders, breeding BB's for a more mellow temperament. The breed is in it's infancy in the uk, so maybe at the moment it's not ideal, but given a few years of careful breeding they may be a more suitable option.
> 
> In reply to luvmydogs, I did consider a bullmastiff a while back, I know they are brilliant dogs, however i'm looking for something a bit rarer. I've grown up with labs, and had a border collie for the last 15 years so want something a bit unusual. The boerboel is a fantastic looking dog, and they seem incredibly loyal from what I've heard, the only question is over their approach to strangers, which something I need to look in to more. I must say though, if I choose not to go for a BB, a bullmastiff or a Dogue de Bordeaux will be at the top of the list!!


And at the end of the day mate it is your choice.. And no one elses you were only asking what the breed was like.... I would rather take the experience of people who have handled them like a few have, rather than them who have read about them..

Hahaha and are you into the rugby matey???


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

Very true, everyone has likes and dislikes and people give an opinion based on their perception and experience. I find it strange how someone said this breed of dog doesn't belong in the uk because of it's size. It's a small island, but big enough for any breed of dog. Someone else said because it would be dangerous in the wrong hands, but any dog is. A friend of mine had to get his lab put down, because it was food aggressive and couldn't be retrained. So you can get good and bad dogs of any breed. I'm sure that developed because he simply hadn't trained the dog correctly, and by the time it was adult it was too late. 

I am in to rugby, rugby league is my favourite, I'll watch union now and again, but I prefer league. I'll watch any sport to be honest!! You like it yourself mate?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

saint_bigmal said:


> Very true, everyone has likes and dislikes and people give an opinion based on their perception and experience. I find it strange how someone said this breed of dog doesn't belong in the uk because of it's size. It's a small island, but big enough for any breed of dog. Someone else said because it would be dangerous in the wrong hands, but any dog is. A friend of mine had to get his lab put down, because it was food aggressive and couldn't be retrained. So you can get good and bad dogs of any breed. I'm sure that developed because he simply hadn't trained the dog correctly, and by the time it was adult it was too late.
> 
> I am in to rugby, rugby league is my favourite, I'll watch union now and again, but I prefer league. I'll watch any sport to be honest!! You like it yourself mate?


I am... lol unfortunately I dind't get to go to wembley..

So how what is it you likes about the BB Personally I couldn't own a huge dog like that, lol might be something to do with me being 5'3"..


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

Who do you support? I support saints obviously, starting to get sick of Leeds beating us in the final haha. 

I think they just have something about them that no other dog has. Seem to be a brilliant all round dog, although very big. I don't know if you have seen the videos on YouTube, but they can do obedience work, farm work, there's videos of them rounding up sheep and cattle!! I'm getting the impression people have a misconception that they are bred to be just guard dogs, but nothing could be further from the truth. From what I've read, they were bred to have the ability to do many different tasks, guarding, herding, companion, tracker, which is why I think they would potentially make a good pet, as you could teach them all kinds of things and they would be willing and happy to learn.

It's definately not a decision I'll rush in to though, anyone who wants to own one has to be certain they know all there is to know!!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

They can be great dogs as I said and I'm sure can do anything you want them to. But do all the research you can if you do decide to get one talk to people who own them and find a trainer who is experienced with guard breeds


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> Maybe they just like the BB!! Just like many of us here choose to own certain breeds................simply because we like them!!


are you going to disagree with me on everything? lol they are not that common a breed to see everyday and fall in love with really


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

saint_bigmal said:


> Very true, everyone has likes and dislikes and people give an opinion based on their perception and experience. I find it strange how someone said this breed of dog doesn't belong in the uk because of it's size. It's a small island, but big enough for any breed of dog. Someone else said because *it would be dangerous in the wrong hands, but any dog is*. A friend of mine had to get his lab put down, because it was food aggressive and couldn't be retrained. So you can get good and bad dogs of any breed. I'm sure that developed because *he simply hadn't trained the dog correctly*, and by the time it was adult it was too late.
> 
> I am in to rugby, rugby league is my favourite, I'll watch union now and again, but I prefer league. I'll watch any sport to be honest!! You like it yourself mate?


Just wondering what makes you think youd be able to train it correctly? Youve been told their personalities - and it seems a very difficult one to balance.
Theres a bit of a difference from getting yor leg chewed off by an agressive jack russel and getting a chomping from a dog of this size im sure youd agree? Looking at their history it is a hunting/fighting dog, built for huge protection, defense and attack that isnt going to be bred out for a dozen years. You dont want to talk yourself of a dog like this simply on rarity - it will be a handful that id think anyone would drastically underestimate. 
My comments about it not being for these shores stands .. its a Boer breed used hard and for a purpose, i dont see that purpose fitting in well on Hyde park.

just read your above comments - youd definitely have to know all there is to know about a breed like this agreed


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't think they could be city dogs at all maybe out in the country. A dog bred to take down lions isn't going to be easy


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

lol maybe you could clicker train it ?  id definitely say a country dog too, being worked


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

They are pretty eager to learn clicker training would probably be good.


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## Ridgielover (Apr 16, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> I don't think they could be city dogs at all maybe out in the country. A dog bred to take down lions isn't going to be easy


A dog breed bred to "take down lions" would be extinct! Rhodesian Ridgebacks are the breed that occasionally used to be referred to as African Lion Hounds - and they were bred to harry and bay a lion, NOT to attack it.

I have met some Boerboels. The four that I know well are super dogs - but they are that way because the owner (and breeder of two of them) has put in a huge amount of effort to train them and to socialise them. They have their bronze good citizens tests - and will easily pass their silvers and golds too, I expect. 3 of them participate in competitive obedience and they are amazing to watch. But they are like this because she puts in the effort and they are well exercised. They also work her stock on her farm. This is, most definitely, not the breed for your average dog owner. If you want one, you will need to do LOTS of research (contact the breed secretary of the UK club) - the breed has several health issues - and you will have to do LOTS of work with your dog.


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

james1 said:


> Just wondering what makes you think youd be able to train it correctly? Youve been told their personalities - and it seems a very difficult one to balance.
> Theres a bit of a difference from getting yor leg chewed off by an agressive jack russel and getting a chomping from a dog of this size im sure youd agree? Looking at their history it is a hunting/fighting dog, built for huge protection, defense and attack that isnt going to be bred out for a dozen years. You dont want to talk yourself of a dog like this simply on rarity - it will be a handful that id think anyone would drastically underestimate.
> My comments about it not being for these shores stands .. its a Boer breed used hard and for a purpose, i dont see that purpose fitting in well on Hyde park.
> 
> just read your above comments - youd definitely have to know all there is to know about a breed like this agreed


Well for one if I lived in London I wouldn't even consider getting one. I live in a medium sized town surrounded by countryside and a lot of open space, so this would not be an issue. 
The dog is NOT a fighting breed and has never been used or bred for that purpose. It's a misconception people have when they look at mastiff type dogs and assume they are bred for fighting. Bullmastiffs, Bordeaux, BB are definately not bred to fight. They do need a job to do, with them being a new breed to these shores they will still have the instinct to guard and protect, but also to some extent to herd and serve. It's much like a border collie in the respect that they have a strong instinct to herd, and if they aren't given enough exercise they can become problematic and obsessive out of boredom. 
I know how to train a dog, a was in the british gsd society for a few years a took our collie training with them. I would never get a BB and not take it to classes, or spend ample time training it myself. Any dog with correct training Unless it has neurological problems, can be a well behaved and social dog. Just because it looks intimidating, does not mean it is going to bite someone.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Ive met one once, first time ive even ever heard of the breed, and she was lovely.

She was a rescue that had been shipped over from SA, and was owned by an older couple (in their 60's). Apart from being scared of small spaces (she had been locked in a crate for the large portion of her life) she had a wonderful temperament. Loved people, greeted everyone and was rather calm after the inital greeting.

Good luck in your search.


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

Nonnie said:


> Ive met one once, first time ive even ever heard of the breed, and she was lovely.
> 
> She was a rescue that had been shipped over from SA, and was owned by an older couple (in their 60's). Apart from being scared of small spaces (she had been locked in a crate for the large portion of her life) she had a wonderful temperament. Loved people, greeted everyone and was rather calm after the inital greeting.
> 
> Good luck in your search.


after being locked up, it's understandable and that would be the same for any breed. Sounds like a great dog!! Thanks for the info!


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Saint Bigmal i think you would be a great BB owner from what i have heard!! Good luck in your search and please stick around...........and definately keep us up to date with your search.

xx


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

Cheers Acacia, very good of you to say!! 

I'll let you know how the search for one goes, I'm only planning to get one in the summer if I do get one. I didnt realise what a good site this is, in fact I didnt even know the forums section til the other day!! Lots of knowledgable people!!


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

saint_bigmal said:


> Well for one if I lived in London I wouldn't even consider getting one. I live in a medium sized town surrounded by countryside and a lot of open space, so this would not be an issue.
> The dog is NOT a fighting breed and has never been used or bred for that purpose. It's a misconception people have when they look at mastiff type dogs and assume they are bred for fighting. Bullmastiffs, Bordeaux, BB are definately not bred to fight. They do need a job to do, with them being a new breed to these shores they will still have the instinct to guard and protect, but also to some extent to herd and serve. It's much like a border collie in the respect that they have a strong instinct to herd, and if they aren't given enough exercise they can become problematic and obsessive out of boredom.
> I know how to train a dog, a was in the british gsd society for a few years a took our collie training with them. I would never get a BB and not take it to classes, or spend ample time training it myself. Any dog with correct training Unless it has neurological problems, can be a well behaved and social dog. Just because it looks intimidating, does not mean it is going to bite someone.


Good post, although the Dogue de Bordeaux has been used for dog fighting in the past.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

saint_bigmal said:


> Cheers Acacia, very good of you to say!!
> 
> I'll let you know how the search for one goes, I'm only planning to get one in the summer if I do get one. I didnt realise what a good site this is, in fact I didnt even know the forums section til the other day!! Lots of knowledgable people!!


I hope you stick around!! Its a great forum! Lots of knowledgeable people in all sorts of animal related things, and you can make good friends here to.

x


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> I hope you stick around!! Its a great forum! Lots of knowledgeable people in all sorts of animal related things, and you can make good friends here to.
> 
> x


Heer heer, its quite intresting hearing from somone intrested in different breeds too. Rather than the usual breeds banded around the forum imo.


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Iv just read this with interest, Id not ehard of this breed before now, sounds a very impressive dog, not one Id be confident taking in to my home, sounds like they need a huge amount of time and commitment I know all our dogs need these 2 things but they do sound like in the wrong hands they could be a danger but that said, I suppose in the wrong hand any dog could be

I would be inclined to listen to people like leash4life whov had a lot of dealings with the breed as taking on board the negatives even if at times wed rather not is essential

Good luck though in your search and if you get one would be great to hear about him/her and see photos, Iv only now seen the one on this thread so moer piccies of pups and older ones would be nice

I will stick with my soft as puddings bearded scahnuzers


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

mitch4 said:


> Iv just read this with interest, Id not ehard of this breed before now, sounds a very impressive dog, not one Id be confident taking in to my home, sounds like they need a huge amount of time and commitment I know all our dogs need these 2 things but they do sound like in the wrong hands they could be a danger but that said, I suppose in the wrong hand any dog could be
> 
> I would be inclined to listen to people like leash4life whov had a lot of dealings with the breed as taking on board the negatives even if at times wed rather not is essential
> 
> ...


They have a bad reputation and because of this they can fall into the wrong hands.

My daughters Gran in South Africa has owned about 6 of these dogs in her time she now has just the one. And one was aggressive but this was down to very bad breeding (think reputation = money for scum bags who want a status dog) but the others were fantastic!!

They are super dogs, but yes they do take serious work, training which is doubly constant etc

But they are very loyal and very affectionate dogs too. Great with children if chosen the right ethical breeder. They can be clown like dogs always making you laugh with their escapades!

I loved hearing Ouma's stories about her BB's!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

It is interesting hearing about breeds that are not common to us here in the UK and can see the appeal of having a more rare breed, schnauzers arent rare although the standard is fairly rare in the UK and this is why I am passionate at keeping the breed size alive and kicking here :smile5:

Do you think that the breed we are discussing here however is better suited to a country like south Africa as there is more open land space for them


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

mitch4 said:


> It is interesting hearing about breeds that are not common to us here in the UK and can see the appeal of having a more rare breed, schnauzers arent rare although the standard is fairly rare in the UK and this is why I am passionate at keeping the breed size alive and kicking here :smile5:
> 
> Do you think that the breed we are discussing here however is better suited to a country like south Africa as there is more open land space for them


No i truly belive any breed can adapt very well to other climates/counties.

Look at the Huskies and Malamutes (example) etc they have adapted to all climates/countries, even extreme heat and no particular 'work' my cousin bought her rescued Husky here from Australia when she came back!

Border Collies have adpated to pet life rather than constant shepherding life. (albiet being ''local'' not imported)

Many breeds are imported to the UK and with time, patience, and plenty of time and training they adpatted very very well.

BB's do need that extra work but if the owner is willing and able to give it then why can't they be happy and adaptive to the UK and elsewhere!


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Captain.Charisma said:


> Good post, although the Dogue de Bordeaux has been used for dog fighting in the past.


Bred specifically for it. There is plenty on that subject in the Saga of the Dogue de Bordeaux if you can get hold of a copy.


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Snoringbear said:


> Bred specifically for it. There is plenty on that subject in the Saga of the Dogue de Bordeaux if you can get hold of a copy.


Is that a book sorry ?

I dont think the dog bred specificaly for dog fighting, but more fell victim to it. Thanks to its large, powerful frame, big jaw and loose bits of skin making it harder for other dogs to grap its internatl organs, well thats what i guess anyways.


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

Here is a good example of a well trained Boerboel. Thee are some 'related videos' of some idiots however who dont deserve to own a dog, but I wont give a link to that as I dont want to glorify the losers!

YouTube - Gordo (Boerboel) obedience at 14 months old

It seems to be Americans who are using the dog for so called protection work looking at the video's on You Tube, and just making the dogs look like they are dangerous and turning them in to lunatics! Boerboels seem to be more popular in the states. A good example of how to wreck and demonize a breed!!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Very impressive as I said they're smart and like obeying their owners. Boerboels were protection dogs in South Africa obviously among just about everything else


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Captain.Charisma said:


> Is that a book sorry ?
> 
> I dont think the dog bred specificaly for dog fighting, but more fell victim to it. Thanks to its large, powerful frame, big jaw and loose bits of skin making it harder for other dogs to grap its internatl organs, well thats what i guess anyways.


Yes, it's a book written by Raymond Triquet who is considered as the leading authority in DDB. Unfortunately it's almost impossible get hold of a copy as it's out of print in english and is usually sold for three figure sums when a copy crops up. You could get the original French copy more readily. It's best to read the book to understand their origins as most internet sites just take snippets about the origins whereas triquet is far more thorough about the dogs origins. There are various dogs that support a hunting, guarding and fighting heritage for hundredds of years back - Alaunts etc. The conformation of the modern ddb is one type selected from three distinct dogue variations - Bordeaux, Toulouse and Parisien. The bordeaux dogs at this time were used for fighting - dogs, hyenas, bears, big cats, asses etc. The only real difference is that the ears are no longer cropped and modern dogs carry less white and are heavier.


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Captain.Charisma said:


> I wonder if we have any BB owners on the board ?


Yes, me, i've got 4 boerboels at the moment and they're all absolutely amazing, and very well balanced, dogs

This is an old thread so i don't know if i should dig it up, but there are quite a lot of misconceptions posted in this thread.
It's such a shame to hear people saying these negative things about boerboels, especially when they haven't really got any experience of owning them.

Sounds a lot like the "pitbulls are dangerous dogs" hype starting all over again, when in reality, as everyone should know by now, it's always *the owner* that's the problem and rarely is it the fault of the dog.:mad2:

Boerboels are dangerous, ferocious, not suited to uk life, hard to handle bla bla???? Sorry, but that's complete and utter nonsense!!!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> ...there are quite a lot of misconceptions posted in this thread.
> It's such a shame to hear people saying these negative things about boerboels, especially when
> they haven't really got any experience of owning them.
> 
> ...


i realize U think Ur dogs are wonderful, but Boerbels are considered to be among the primitive working-breeds, 
not the civilized pet-type or companion-breeds - and like it or not, *the breed is noted for stranger-aggression.*

just as Beagles bay and snuffle scents, Shelties bark at doorbells & chase moving objects, and Retrievers 
like something in their mouths to carry or chew, *Boerbels are pront to growl at strangers who try to touch them, 
and prone to bite strangers who enter their property - especially if the owner is not home, or if the owner IS home 
and the dog decides to treat her or him as a defensible resource - like a bone, meal or favorite toy. * 

i agree with Nicky - she summed it up nicely, IMO - 


Nicky10 said:


> I looked into these and quickly came to the conclusion I didn't have the experience to handle them.
> They love their family, [but] anyone else who comes to the house without your invitation or being invited in by you,
> could be at risk without a lot of socialisation and training. They're smart and learn fast but cannot be left alone
> for very long, and cannot be kennelled outside -
> ...


RG by the way, is resource-guard: to take ownership of something & defend it from others - the home, their bowl, 
[empty or full, depending on the dog], a bone, favorite toy/chewy, personal space, their own body from handling, etc.

this does not make them monsters - there are many other dogs of which the same can be said; but Boerbels are not 
Shih-Tzu or Labradors, they are what they are: a guarding-breed. Early & intense & long-term socialization can 
mitigate that in most Boerbels, but they are more intense than say, a Rott, of normal Rott-temp who is socialized.

most GSDs from pet or show-lines would not do more than bark at a friendly stranger *until the dog had a reason* 
to feel suspicious [bark or growl] or *an even-worse reason* to bite - Boerbels do not need a reason to growl at strangers, 
the only thing a stranger has to do to make a Boerbel growl, or freeze & look daggers at them, is to breathe, IME. :lol:

JMO & IME, cheers, 
- terry


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

edited edited edited


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> i realize U think Ur dogs are wonderful, but Boerbels are considered to be among the primitive working-breeds,
> not the civilized pet-type or companion-breeds - and like it or not, *the breed is noted for stranger-aggression.*


*

Well, i'm sorry to hear that you've had negative experiences with boerboels, but being honest, that doesn't surprise me in the slightest seeing as you live in the states. They're becoming a big problem over there due to a lot of bad breeders, and very few of them are actually putting any thought into what they are doing. Its the "gold rush" all over again, and usa boerboels are becoming the new status symbol dog that all the dodgy buggers over there want to own and show off. The states is the main country that pretty much destroys every single bull breed worldwide. In other countries the same dogs are rarely a problem, so most of your opinions on boerboels in other countries are basically null and void.
South africa has a problem with boerboels too, but thats to be expected i suppose. Hostile territory needs hostile dogs, and thats the reason so many have them over there and the reason that they train them to perform certain duties.

My comments aren't just about my own dogs though,theyre about boerboels in general and all the dogs that currently live in the UK. Its a tight knit community over here and everyone knows about everyone elses dogs. We all keep in touch, there are meetings and appraisals 1-2 times a year..and guess what...nobody gets killed, nobody gets bitten, the dogs are well behaved and social with each other, and they do as their owners command. So far i think there have only been 2 attacks made by boerboels, and these happened in the appraisal ring because the dogs were in a situation they were uncomfortable with.

You clearly have much to learn about the work that has been done with boerboel breeding since they started being bred in other parts of the world. The original south african dogs, the raw working lines, are all but extinct now and things have moved on. 
Will you ever see boerboels in their true light?..no, i doubt that very much as the negativity has already set in for you..

This may sound blunt, but it needs to be said as you clearly have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to "owning/living with" boerboels.

1.Not civilised-not pet type-not companions....rubbish.
2.Stranger aggressive? at their home, yes, out in public if raised like any other social dog?...not at all.
3.Primitive working breed? maybe back in 1983 when the original african dogs were chosen to start the SABT registry, but things have moved on a long way since then. Boerboels have always been a breed that are closely attached to their owners,and they've always been highly loyal family companions aswell. The fact that they were also selected for strong protection and guard traits has nothing to do with their nature as "pets".



leashedForLife said:



Boerbels are pront to growl at strangers who try to touch them,

Click to expand...

Rubbish lol



leashedForLife said:



and prone to bite strangers who enter their property - especially if the owner is not home, or if the owner IS home 
and the dog decides to treat her or him as a defensible resource - like a bone, meal or favorite toy.

Click to expand...

Yes, every boerboel owner EXPECTS their boerboel to attack, and bite, if someone enters their home uninvited. Thats what a good guardian is supposed to do.
Maybe you think a good guardian dog is one that just barks a lot, looks intimidating, and does nothing more than stand its ground when faced with a threat? but thats not the type of dog a boerboel owner wants. We expect them to "get stuck in" and protect us and our families no matter what.

I think i'll be wasting my time trying to talk any sense to you about boerboels, so i'll leave you to hold your negative opinions if that's what you believe in.

Shame, but thats life.*


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

it's nice to know that some things *never* change - no-one will ever admit that _their breed_ 
is not necessarily perfect around kids, the elderly, cats, gerbils, bicyclists, joggers, strange dogs, poultry, 
huggy kids who want to lovingly throttle them or playful kids who want to take their bone or poke their eyes out, 
and so on & so forth - _*let's face it - *_ guarding breeds were developed to defend property; 
they are freqently turfy & often stranger-paranoid, which readily becomes stranger-aggro if the person gets too close, 
moves too fast, or otherwise raises alarm in the dog. 


Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> In other countries the same dogs are rarely a problem,
> so most of your opinions on boerboels in other countries are basically null and void.


several high-profile cases of Boerbels biting have made headlines in Europe - or doesn't that count? :huh: 


Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> ...every boerboel owner EXPECTS their boerboel to attack, and bite, if someone enters their home uninvited.
> Thats what a good guardian is supposed to do.


i said *nothing* about the bitee being uninvited - these were visitors, not a home invasion.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

i didn't waste a lot of time hunting for this - i Googled "Boerbel temperament" and this was the 1st-page, 
first link result: Is a boerboel right for you

as i said: self-willed... 


> ...puppies are great cuddly things which can be picked up and allowed to sit on sofas and beds
> and it seems so mean not to allow them these privileges whilst small  BUT  all of a sudden they are very large
> and you are not so happy with them sprawled out on your sofa especially if *when told to get off they really
> cant hear - just like children they go deaf when it suits them!*... Now what? Dont let it happen in the first place.


stranger-suspicious, prone to suspect threats - 


> * Boerboels have a very protective instinct and this must be borne in mind. Whilst it looks great to have a big dog
> at your side and no one is allowed to come near you because [s/he] growls, this is not very social and can be
> embarrassing, let alone scary! *


* 
suggested preventives & protocol:



Your Boerboel should be well socialised... taken out... & taught to mix with other people & animals for a well balanced dog.

Should your Boerboel show these signs of over protectiveness, you must act straight away: Socialise the dog in the areas 
where [s/he] tends to be most protective &... praise when s/he allows your friends to come near (treats are good). 
Admonish [her/him] & let [the dog] know you do not like it if s/he shows over protectiveness when out and about.

If s/he is not happy with strangers coming into the home, put [the dog] away whilst you let them into your home 
& bring [the dog out] where they are... then before they [leave], put [the dog] away & let your friends depart. 
S/he will think they are being brought into the [visitor's] environment and not the other way around.

Click to expand...

if this person ignorant & paranoid, too? projecting their worries onto the dog, painting the dog as more dangerous 
than the breed tends to be, glamorizing risk? something else?... if so, what?*


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> i didn't waste a lot of time hunting for this - i Googled "Boerbel temperament" and this was the 1st-page,
> first link result: Is a boerboel right for you


Firstly, google is everyones best friend, yes, but are you really trying to say to me that EVERY dog within a breed can be defined as ALL having one generalised temperament. Come on now, i dont want to call you ignorant but surely you can't be that stupid? (no offence)
Dogs are bred with a certain purpose in mind and a dogs individual traits are identified by their breeders..thus leading to a "general" breed description. However, every dog has its own personality, and character, and not every dog in a particular breed will live upto the expectations required of it. This is not just true for boerboel, but for ALL breeds.
For the last 10-20 years, the "good" boerboel breeders have selected their stock with a strong focus on achieving a softer temperament in their lines. This still continues today, and in some ways, it is actually backfiring on us all.
You may be surprised to know that, currently, there is a problem within some breeding ranks because a softer temperament has been taken too far. A lot of boerboels are showing timidness within the ring and some suspect that the "fight" has been taken out of them after too many years trying to soften their nature. Aggression is also present in some of the bloodlines, but again, i think this is more of an "individual dog/rearing" situation than a problem that exists within an entire bloodline.
These are just 2 of the many recent discussions happening within the boerboel world, but i wouldn't expect "outsiders" to know any of this anyway.
I could let you in into a few other secrets about the current state of affairs within boerboels, but i'll save that for a rainy day, i guess, as its not really relevant to this discussion at the moment.

Its easy for internet users such as yourself to just read "what google says", then wander off onto the worldwide web and proclaim themselves to be some sort of breed afficionado or "guru". Sadly though google does not own a boerboel, google does not live with them day to day, and google never keeps upto date with the community and it isn't privvi to where things stand with boerboels "today".
The breed definition on google is probably the same one that its spiders found 20 years ago. Its laughable at best, and everyone with a boerboel already knows this.



leashedForLife said:


> as i said: self-willed...


I wont disagree with this comment because it is true, many of them ARE self willed and very stubborn (especially the younger males)...but just like any other dog, or dog breed, the responsibility of teaching right from wrong is solely in the hands of the owner. If you don't educate your dog and train it, dont then go and blame it for doing something that it would find natural if it was left to fend for itself in the wild. Dogs aren't born to understand humanisation and manners are they...it is OUR responsibility to instill that knowledge within them.
Dogs are wild (although partly domesticated) animals...and i think some people tend to forget that at times. They weren't born to be pets, they dont even now what a "pet" even is, all they know is what WE choose to show them.:mad2:



leashedForLife said:


> stranger-suspicious, prone to suspect threats -


Yes, this is one of the many *required* traits for a boerboel, (*and also all the other various mastiff breeds that exist*). They are known for their "6th sense" and their ability to "decide for themselves", but again, it is the owners responsibility to nurture and control this instinct.
How exactly is this instinct a problem in a breed that is *expected* to guard and defend at all costs? Would you prefer a guardian dog that let someone come in and burgle your home while you're out (because YOU weren't there to give it permission to attack), or would you prefer to come home and find your possessions and family still safe because your dog ripped the arm off the idiot who thought he could break in.
That's a no brainer question-rhetorical-and doesn't really require an answer
(ripping an arm off was an over-exaggeration...but you catch my drift...right?)



leashedForLife said:


> suggested preventives & protocol:
> 
> if this person ignorant & paranoid, too? projecting their worries onto the dog, painting the dog as more dangerous
> than the breed tends to be, glamorizing risk? something else?... if so, what?


As i said, google is everyones best friend, its very useful at times, but if you believe EVERYTHING that you read on google, then you're probably the type of person that trusts in the media and believes all the daily headlines too.:scared:
Did you know that eating too many carrots gives you cancer!
Beef from america has got lethal steroids in it!
If you drink a glass of red wine everyday you'll live 5 years longer!
You can run a car forever with your own urine!
Yesterday, a cow jumped over the moon!

I couldnt be bothered to answer the rest of the drivvle you quoted, as the person who wrote it was just talking about the *obvious* need for basic training with boerboels (but he failed to mention that is required in ALL dogs?)

Please my friend, accept that you dont really understand boerboels and you have absolutely no practical experience of owning one. You aren't even involved with the worldwide scene in any way so how can you possibly claim to know the real deal about boerboels?
All you are doing in this thread is tarnishing the good name of a truly fantastic breed of dog, and i for one, will not allow that to happen based on your quick "google searches".

I'm not here to glamourise boerboels or make them out to be the best thing since sliced bred, they have their problems, yes, but they're nowhere near as bad as you're making them out to be and your portrayal of them is frankly disgusting, and offensive.

If boerboels are all out of control monsters, as you imply, then do you actually think any of us would have them living day to day with our children and families?. How do we take them for walks, how do they get vet treatment, do we lock them up indoors all day and only bring them out night when the streets are empty?:mad2:

Its as simple as this. Boerboels are no more of a threat to anyone than the jack russells or labradors your neighbours have.
Sure, if you cross one or try to disrespect it...it'll probably be the worst nightmare you've ever had...but that's only because its a very big dog, with the potential to do very big damage...in no way does that mean "boerboels are bad".:mad2:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> Firstly, google is everyones best friend...


the author of the article IS a breeder - in the country of origin, with many years experience & a good rep. 


> ...you dont really understand boerboels and you have absolutely no practical experience of owning one.


it is not mandatory to have OWNED & LIVED-WITH every breed, to form an opinion of their general nature. 
dogs have types - Boerbels are clearly a guarding-type breed... amazingly, very like my late-lamented Akita, 
who however was thoroughly socialized, had her CGC, and went to rehab-hospitals to visit patients. 


> You aren't even involved with the worldwide scene in any way so how can you possibly claim to know
> the real deal about boerboels?


i did not CLAIM to 'know' the politics of the dog or the breed, only the general temp & behavior of the breed.
and the many other articles i have previously read, over the last 20-years, all said much the same thing as did 
the breeder whose link i posted above. [shrug] No big surprises - cautious, untrusting, aloof, etc.


> ...your portrayal of them is frankly disgusting, and offensive.


_*offensive?*_  sheesh - saying they are not for first-time owners, and that they are suspicious 
of strangers, are statements of fact - with which the huge majority of ethical breeders would agree, i think. 


> ...Boerboels are no more of a threat to anyone than the [JRTs] or Labradors your neighbours have.
> Sure, if you cross one or try to disrespect it, it'll probably be the worst nightmare you've ever had -
> but that's only because its a very big dog, with the potential to do very big damage...
> in no way does that mean "boerboels are bad".


* breeds have breed-traits 
* JRTs are easily aroused, reactive & vocal; often predatory 
* Labs are active, often love fetch as a game, & many love water 
* JRTs can be turfy, but are not typically stranger-aggro OFF their home turf 
* Labs are not typically prone to bite strangers merely for stepping into their yard or house

* Boerbels are often seriously stranger-aggressive, and one need not DO anything to 'earn' this, 
beyond have a pulse & respiration, & be a stranger to the dog. _*that does not make Boerbels BAD - 
it makes eejits who buy the Boerbel responsible for any trouble the dog gets into, while they own or handle 
that dog - IOW, the owner is legally & ethically liable for any injury to a person, or damage to an animal, 
done by that dog - or property damage caused, directly or indirectly, by that dog.*_

cheers, :thumbup1: 
- terry


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I can't believe that you want your dogs to attack people. That's really bad and you're risking your dogs being taken away and killed if they attack people who would report you. The new dog control act which is going through parliament now will include attacks on private property, so i would be wary about letting your dogs attack people.


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> I can't believe that you want your dogs to attack people. That's really bad and you're risking your dogs being taken away and killed if they attack people who would report you. The new dog control act which is going through parliament now will include attacks on private property, so i would be wary about letting your dogs attack people.


I did not say that i WANT my dogs to attack people i said i would want/expect them to guard and defend their home at all costs. Here's an example..
Burglar makes the mistake of choosing 22-stone mastiff's home to rob | Mail Online

If "biting someone" was something they felt was necassary in a home threat situation, then i would fully expect them to do just that.
Do you know what schutzhund is?
"Attack,bite,and hold" work isn't the same as "out of control and savage aggression". A properly trained guardian will know what to do if the owner has trained it correctly. An intruder would be given fair warning by the dog to back off and get the hell out of there, but if they were stupid enough to not heed that warning, then ofcourse, the dog would then attack, bite, and hold down the person until the owner returned to release them.
Using the word "attack" doesn't mean that the dog would be expected to go nuts and tear someone to pieces. It would do what was needed to protect its home and family, but the level of defence displayed would be brought on by the intruder who approached it.
Guardian dogs are bred to guard, and people who dont like that should not own guardian breeds.

Attacks by guard dogs (and guardian "pets") on private property are a grey legal area with no set rules and regulations at present. Cases are dealt with on individual basis, and there are clear cut steps that owners can take to quosh all public liability.
If you refer to certain sections of the following 3 acts, you should be able to work things out for yourself. I do not want to get into that discussion though, but the information is there if you *really* look for it.
The Animals act 1971
The Guard dog act 1975
The Dangerous dogs act 1991 and 1997


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> I did not say that i WANT my dogs to attack people i said i would want/expect them to guard and defend their home at all costs. Here's an example..
> Burglar makes the mistake of choosing 22-stone mastiff's home to rob | Mail Online
> 
> If "biting someone" was something they felt was necassary in a home threat situation, then i would fully expect them to do just that.
> ...


The Dogs Act 1871 covers attacks on private property.


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Snoringbear said:


> The Dogs Act 1871 covers attacks on private property.


Another good one (not read it though):thumbup1:
The animals act 1971 goes into it in a bit more detail, but as i said, its a very grey legal area and guardian breed owners need to be fully aware of all the "ins and outs" if they want to protect themselves, and their dogs.
One slight mistake or error of judgement, and you'll find yourself fully liable


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> Another good one (not read it though):thumbup1:
> The animals act 1971 goes into it in a bit more detail, but as i said, its a very grey legal area and guardian breed owners need to be fully aware of all the "ins and outs" if they want to protect themselves, and their dogs.
> One slight mistake or error of judgement, and you'll find yourself fully liable


Think yourself lucky you dont live in Scotland, dog laws are a ******* joke


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Starlite said:


> Think yourself lucky you dont live in Scotland, dog laws are a ******* joke




We live in a country that allows burglars, freaks, and psychotic maniacs, to have "rights" in our homes while they're stealing our possessions and putting our families lives at risk, so it's no wonder that "dog ownership" laws are a complete and utter joke if our government can't even allow "us", the people, to beat the living crap out of all intruders who think they can enter our homes uninvited and do whatever they like to us .

If anyone doesn't understand the need for "guardian breed" ownership...please, read the above statement again.
Maybe when you wake up one night and find yourself confronted by a knife wielding maniac (like i did), you'll wish you had a serious guardian dog who'd lay down his own life to protect you.

Our pathetic government will still see to it that our "killer dogs" are all quickly destroyed and named though  :mad5:  but to us, their owners, they'll always be eternally cherished in our hearts and minds for their loyality and "hero-like" service.:thumbup1:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

History of the Boerboel - Groot Trek Boerboele


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Deja vu? :blink:


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Zaros said:


> Deja vu? :blink:


Hi Zaros,
I read your private message, it was very interesting

Leashedforlife seems to have some issue with boerboels, and apparently he/she has also had issues with another rare "guardian type" breed on this forum. 
Now, i don't really know if the issue is down to a loathing of "pedigree" dogs, "rare" dogs, or maybe its just "guardian breeds" in general, but whatever the case i'm not going to indulge this person any more as he/she just wants to paint a negative picture for some reason.

The original statements made by this person (i.e every boerboel they have met was a complete psycho that wanted to attack anything that came near them)..just leads me to believe that this person has not really met any boerboels, or if they did, they were the type that were just chained up all day in someones back yard and not socialised for life in the real world.

The last "boerboel description" that leashedforlife posted, is thankfully, quite an accurate portrayal of the boerboel. There is much more to the modern day boerboel than was posted in the description, but atleast now people viewing this thread will be able to read something truthful about the breed.

Here is leashedforlifes last google link again....and i can say as a boerboel owner myself that it is well worth a read and contains very factual and accurate information.



leashedForLife said:


> History of the Boerboel - Groot Trek Boerboele


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> Hi Zaros,
> 
> Now, i don't really know if the issue is down to a loathing of "rare" dogs, or maybe its just "guardian breeds"


Hello fellow keeper of the 'Guardian' type 'Cerberus' dog. 

To some, the enclosed photograph shows nothing more than an innocent child taking the family pet for a gentle walk. Yet to others it depicts a very different story. It portrays a very calculating and devious monster leading an unsuspecting toddler to its lair.

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

In fact so devious the beast always starts with the head to minimise the screams of agony and attention.


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Great photos

Here's some similar photos of dangerous boerboel beast dogs that are not good as pets and totally inappropriate as family friends and companions.

The photos are of grootgeluk czapei owned by ronald maurits...but this depicts the true nature of boerboels when they are at home with their family and friends.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Excellent photos! :thumbup:

They clearly show the sheer enjoyment and excitement shared by all parties involved and the bond they share. 

(On the other hand, you just have to hand it to those children. So defiant in the face of adversity and yet so oblivious to their true fate)


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Zaros said:


> Excellent photos! :thumbup:
> 
> They clearly show the sheer enjoyment and excitement shared by all parties involved and the bond they share.
> 
> (On the other hand, you just have to hand it to those children. So defiant in the face of adversity and yet so oblivious to their true fate)


Shortly after the photos were taken the children mysteriously just disappeared.
Some say they ran away to join a circus, others talked of alien abduction...but personally i think they were torn to shreds and eaten by the boerboel because, lets be honest, that's what "those types" of dogs do...isnt it:tongue_smilie:


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> Shortly after the photos were taken the children mysteriously just disappeared.
> Some say they ran away to join a circus, others talked of alien abduction...but personally i think they were torn to shreds and eaten by the boerboel because, lets be honest, that's what "those types" of dogs do...isnt it:tongue_smilie:


lol, so much for deed not breed eh? 

I hoped to add a CAO to our pack in a looong time (about 10yrs, but still cant wait! ), nice to see all the prejudice I have to look forward to :blink:


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Starlite said:


> lol, so much for deed not breed eh?


Deed not breed?
hey, big dogs are ALWAYS guilty no matter what the situation is, don't you know that yet? :glare:


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> Great photos
> 
> Here's some similar photos of dangerous boerboel beast dogs that are not good as pets and totally inappropriate as family friends and companions.
> 
> The photos are of grootgeluk czapei owned by ronald maurits...but this depicts the true nature of boerboels when they are at home with their family and friends.


Take a look at the muscle on that dog 

I love boerboels, could never own one myself as I just don't feel I would suit them but will always admire them 

Also LeashedForLife, you're a dog trainer? Of course the only time you're going to come into contact with the breed is when they are misbehaving


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Take a look at the muscle on that dog
> 
> I love boerboels, could never own one myself as I just don't feel I would suit them but will always admire them
> 
> Also LeashedForLife, you're a dog trainer? Of course the only time you're going to come into contact with the breed is when they are misbehaving


I know, czapei is a HUGE HUGE boerboel, much bigger than most of the average ones.
I absolutely adore him though, but even i would have to think twice about owning him because he might be a bit more than i could handle.
A boerboel half his size can be quite hard to handle on a lead due to the amount of pull & power that they have, so i can only imagine how strong czapei must be and i would not fancy my chances trying to control him


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I've been watching this thread with interest, I too am an admirer of Boerboels, and having lived out in Africa can see similarities to some of the dogs roaming free that possibly originate from the same root stock, way back when these dogs were first developed.

I have to say I am also one who would feel a little wary of owning one, because I don't think I have the handling skills, although I would LOVE to have one in the future. My OH had always wanted a rottweiler until I showed him a photo of a Boerboel, so ya never know! 

I think the problem is some people get them for all the wrong reasons, they're impressed by them, perhaps want a status dog, and sometimes even want a dangerous dog. I think in that sort of instance, it really is up to the breeders, they shouldn't allow people to buy a pup if they don't have the right experience or the right sort of home environment. Unfortunately though, even careful breeders get hoodwinked sometimes, and pups end up in the wrong sort of hands. You could turn any dog into a nasty unsocialised animal, but unfortunately, when you do it with something the size of a Boerboel, it is downright dangerous; although having said that, much smaller breeds such as staffies can and have killed kids, even ones that are supposedly well socialised. 

Off to go and admire more photos of Boerboels and think about possibly sneaking one into the household in the future.......


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I think the problem is some people get them for all the wrong reasons, they're impressed by them, perhaps want a status dog, and sometimes even want a dangerous dog. I think in that sort of instance, it really is up to the breeders, they shouldn't allow people to buy a pup if they don't have the right experience or the right sort of home environment. Unfortunately though, even careful breeders get hoodwinked sometimes, and pups end up in the wrong sort of hands.


This is the biggest problem the breed has right now (in the uk atleast).
Most breeders here are highly particular about where their pups go, purely because none of us want to see this breed ruined by idiots. We currently only have 2-3 breeders that i would call "bad", but that's more than enough to destroy the breed in less than 5 years   



Sleeping_Lion said:


> You could turn any dog into a nasty unsocialised animal, but unfortunately, when you do it with something the size of a Boerboel, it is downright dangerous; although having said that, much smaller breeds such as staffies can and have killed kids, even ones that are supposedly well socialised.


You are correct.
To put things into perspective though, where staffies have been known to occasionally attack & kill children, a large boerboel has the potential to kill an *adult* quite easily, and it wouldn't require much effort from the dog at all.

Whilst boerboels could be called the best family dog anyone could ever buy, there is also a serious downside to owning one if you don't put in the necassary training during puppyhood.
An out of control adult boerboel would not be a very nice dog to own at all!!!
People should think about buying a boerboel PROPERLY, as it is not your everyday average "pet" dog. In the wrong hands it would not just be a danger to the general public, it could also be a danger to its owner aswell.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> Leashedforlife seems to have some issue with boerboels,
> and apparently he/she has also had issues with another rare "guardian type" breed on this forum.
> Now, i don't really know if the issue is down to a loathing of "pedigree" dogs, "rare" dogs, or maybe its just "guardian breeds"
> in general, but whatever the case i'm not going to indulge this person any more as he/she just wants to paint
> a negative picture for some reason.


horse-manure. 
i am a SHE, not a he; my name is in my sig, as are my professional affiliations.  
i happen to like guardian breeds very much - my Akita was my second heart dog, and GSDs were my breed of choice 
for over 20-years; Leos, Pyrs, Kuvasz, etc, have included some of my favorite dogs over the years. 
i've met fantastic Tibet Mastiffs, and several other primitive breeds as well.

*saying they are not for novices & may not suit crowded urban settings is not castigating them all 
as evil monsters - * Zaros for some reason, thinks i was picking on Ovtcharka when i cautioned a novice 
that self-willed breeds with a powerful territorial instinct might be a bit more dog than they wanted. 


Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> The original statements made by this person (i.e *every boerboel they have met was a complete psycho that
> wanted to attack anything that came near them*)... leads me to believe that this person has not really met any boerboels,
> ...


* i did not say 'they wanted to attack anything that came near them' - i specified they were stranger-aggressive

* i didn't meet them on chains or in pens - they were on leashes, in public, with their owners

* their owners had all had them from puphood, & had done their best to socialize them as anyone does a puppy - 
but when they reached 4 to 5-MO, all the pups had less & less interest in meeting anyone outside the family. 
this makes continued socialization a lot harder.

feeling picked-upon because i told the truth - that these dogs take more work than a Peke or a Pom, 
and should be taken seriously - is not IMO a responsible attitude. But U are free to do as U please, 
and if U want to advise someone who's never had a Chihuahua or a Beagle to buy a Boerbel, go right ahead - 
just don't expect me to agree.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> ...where staffies have been known to occasionally attack & kill children, a large boerboel has the potential to kill an *adult* quite easily, and it wouldn't require much effort from the dog at all.
> 
> Whilst boerboels could be called the best family dog anyone could ever buy, there is also a serious downside to owning one if you don't put in the necassary training during puppyhood.
> An out of control adult boerboel would not be a very nice dog to own at all!!!
> People should think about buying a boerboel PROPERLY, as it is not your everyday average "pet" dog. In the wrong hands it would not just be a danger to the general public, it could also be a danger to its owner aswell.


since we basically agree on all of this - Why are U arguing? :lol:


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm not arguing, i'm allowing people who read this thread to get a proper understanding of a boerboel from someone who actually owns them and lives with them day to day.

I gave up on you several pages ago as you're one of those "never shut up/know it all" types...so you just go ahead and spout whatever garbage and back-tracking remarks you like now, i really can't be bothered with you anymore.

All i hope for is that anyone with an interest in boerboels doesn't actually believe the initial comments you made on this site.
You've redeemed yourself slightly by posting up an educational boerboel link, but i still think you're a total and utter jackass so i'd prefer it if you'd stop goading me into any further (pointless) chats.
 :glare:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

:lol: perhaps U have more in common with Ur dogs than i had thought.


Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> I'm not arguing, i'm allowing people who read this thread to get a proper understanding
> of a boerboel from someone who actually owns them and lives with them day to day.


as i've said before - U do not have to *live with* each of the over-600 breeds, landraces & types in the world 
to have an informed opinion on them. And by & large, *we agree - * Boerbels are not for casual owners, 
they have innate behaviors which need direction & modification - like stranger aggression & resource-guarding, 
territorial impulses, etc. 


Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> ...you just go ahead and spout whatever garbage and back-tracking remarks you like now, i really can't be bothered with you anymore.
> [snip]
> ...i still think you're a total and utter jackass so i'd prefer it if you'd stop goading me into any further (pointless) chats.


nice - not.


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> :lol: perhaps U have more in common with Ur dogs than i had thought.
> 
> as i've said before - U do not have to *live with* each of the over-600 breeds, landraces & types in the world
> to have an informed opinion on them. And by & large, *we agree - * Boerbels are not for casual owners,
> ...


For anyone reading the above, with an interest in boerboels, i will just clarify something that this member keeps on saying, as it is simply not true. Too much googling has brainwashed this person into thinking they actually know anything "real" about boerboels

Boerboels are not *stranger aggressive*, they are stranger *aware* and very astute at identifiying potential threats. Boerboels are rarely aggressive to anyone unless provoked, they are actually very calm and self assured dogs.
If we are all to believe in the preachings of the almighty google, then we must consider its ramblings when it also says this:
" boerboels are the only *non aggressive* guard dog in the world"
^^the above is not true, but if google says it is...then it must be, right.


A well bred boerboel will rarely display any aggression at all to anyone. They are balanced and stable in most situations, and "defence/warning" would be their primary response to a threat.
Aggressive dogs are not used in boerboel breeding progams these days. There may be some people still doing it, but they'd have to hide it well when taking the dog into the appraisal ring for judging  
Aggressive dogs are instantly disqualified and are then unable to be registered as "boerboels" with all 3 of the breed registries.
If their breeders then choose to go and still breed from these dogs, then there must be some really stupid people out there if they are happy to buy unregistered/unproven boerboels.

"Territorial impulses", as leashedforlife mentions, are not a specific trait only identifiable in boerboels. Approach any dog that you don't know without being invited onto its own "turf", and guess what, it will probably bark at you and attempt to defend that territory. That is what dogs do naturally (unless their owners have trained them NOT to).
A territorial display from an 80kg boerboel may look more intimidating than that of a 5kg pug...*but that does not mean it is being aggressive.*

(sigh, i despair sometimes)


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> Too much googling has brainwashed this person into thinking they actually
> know anything "real" about boerboels


i didn't get my info merely from Google - but from Boerbel owners, breeders and *meeting Boerbels. *


Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> Boerboels are not *stranger aggressive*, they are stranger *aware* and very astute at [identifying] potential threats.
> Boerboels are rarely aggressive to anyone unless provoked, they are actually very calm and self assured dogs.


i didn't invent the label - it is repeated by articles, breeders, owners, etc. It's not unique to Boerbels - 
many guarding-breeds are stranger-aggressive or stranger-suspicious. 


Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> "Territorial impulses", as leashedforlife mentions, are not a specific trait only identifiable in boerboels.


yes - as i have said repeatedly, *guarding breeds* are far more territorial than are non-guarding breeds.

almost any dog of any breed may bark at strangers visiting their home; in non-guarding breeds, the barks are 
more often a short-lived alert, followed by happy greetings & much tail-wagging excitement.

territorial breeds do not happily greet total strangers at the door by soliciting petting & smiling beatifically - 
they want to sniff, observe, & gather data - How does this person *act*? how does the owner *react* to them? 
how *close* are they allowed to get, by the owner? just how intimate is the *friendship*, or are they *related*?

fast-moving, frontal, confrontational or grabby people will not go over well, with most guarding breeds. 
children under 5-YO who want to play at being speeding cars, _*Vrrrroooomming!*_ thru the house, 
will not endear themselves to a guarding-breed dog; control is part of their job description; if U will not control 
the speed-freak, the dog may feel it's up to them.

similarly, a visiting child who makes the resident child cry during play [however innocently] may be 'punished' 
by the guarding-breed dog - or escorted to the door by a dog who wants to evict them.

folks who play roughly can cause misunderstandings, too - wrestling, shouting, shoving & chasing can cause 
the resident dog to decide their person [adult or child] is being threatened, and step in to defend them.

if U are going to host a sleepover for 5 or 6 giggling girls under 10-YO, or a birthday party for Ur son, it is probably 
best to put the dog in another room; have the dog sleep in the adult's bedroom with the door latched, 
or crate them for safety in another room the kids cannot enter - some kids think teasing a crated dog 
is a great game.  everybody's safety is the owner's concern - preventing anyone being hurt or scared, 
preventing the dog developing a bad impression of visitors in general or 5-YO boys, is just part of that.

visiting adults are not immune from bad-behavior, especially if liquor is involved - the drunk who decides to take 
the dog's favorite toy or bone, may not live to regret it - so protect the dog from this hazard, not out of deep concern 
for the drunk but out of sincere devotion to one's dog & their breed, in the larger sense of responsibility; every bite 
by a dog of a given breed, *no matter how justified*, affects the breed's reputation.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Acacia86 said:


> No i truly belive any breed can adapt very well to other climates/counties.
> 
> Look at the Huskies and Malamutes (example) etc they have adapted to all climates/countries, even extreme heat and no particular 'work' my cousin bought her rescued Husky here from Australia when she came back!
> 
> ...


The Breed rescues and rehoming centres, Might disagree with the situation on the Huskies and Malamutes, at the moment. They might have adapted to the climates and countries, but unfortuanately because of the popularity and being a must have dog, brought with little or no research, The breed welfares cant take any more in for lack of foster homes (Or the Sibes cant) I believe the Malamute welfare are struggling a bit too. Border Collie welfare organisations also seem to be forever advertising for homes too. It also seems every rehoming centres, got a sibe or collies too, and the Mals are popping up more and more also.


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## JJAK (May 28, 2010)

My boss owns a boerboel X french mastiff. 
She is GINORMOUS. A complete terror, she cant help but get into trouble, shes not even a year old and has so far cost the £700+ in vets bills from being destructive & eating things etc. 

Shes quite well trained in regards to obedience/having being socialised etc. but as has been said when an outsider goes onto their teritory they let it be known they are NOT happy about it. 

Generally shes a lovely dog, although, has her moment. 
Their not for first time owners, as most of what is mentioned above is true!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> The Breed rescues & rehoming centres, Might disagree with the situation re Huskies & Malamutes, at the moment.
> They might have adapted to the climates and countries, but unfortunately because of the popularity and being
> a must have dog, brought with little or no research, breed-welfares cant take any more in for lack of foster homes...


here in Tidewater-VA, Huskies are very popular - which is ridiculous, these dogs do not thrive in over-80% humidity 
and 80-degrees-F and up is common 9 months of the 12.  worse yet, when Sibes or Mals hit 6-mos and begin 
to lose that fuzzy puppy-coat, all of a sudden the pup is _*"too big for the house, we had to put the dog out...",*_ 
and these sociable creatures find themselves living 24-hours, 7-days in that hot, sticky muck - or cold, damp muck, 
depending on the season. :cursing: and then, of course, there comes the first hot-spot, weeping & ugly, sore 
and crusted - and fleas are year-round here, so are mosquitoes & heartworm.

this area is Hell for arctic-breeds - yet everything from Pomeranians to Giant Malamutes of 125# are popular! 
the toy-breeds are lucky, they're usually inside - in the AC or heat, depending, but out of the crazy humidity, 
and away from the 12 species of mosquitoes, hookworm, pinworm, and so on.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> here in Tidewater-VA, Huskies are very popular - which is ridiculous, these dogs do not thrive in over-80% humidity
> and 80-degrees-F and up is common 9 months of the 12.  worse yet, when Sibes or Mals hit 6-mos and begin
> to lose that fuzzy puppy-coat, all of a sudden the pup is _*"too big for the house, we had to put the dog out...",*_
> and these sociable creatures find themselves living 24-hours, 7-days in that hot, sticky muck - or cold, damp muck,
> ...


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

They actually say at Westminster that sibes and mals are fine in any climate conditions because the coat is insulating so keeps them cool too . I wouldn't have such a thick coated dog in that sort of climate

As for boerboels when I reading about them on the UK breed site it did say they obviously need a lot of socialisation and training well so does any giant breed but especially the guard dogs and that the males are much more difficult than the females. And that they need to live in the house they shouldn't be out in kennels. Never met one in person but I'm sure like any dog they make wonderful pets with the right owners and are not for people with little dog owning experience


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> They actually say at Westminster that sibes and mals are fine in any climate conditions because the coat is insulating so keeps them cool too . I wouldn't have such a thick coated dog in that sort of climate
> 
> As for boerboels when I reading about them on the UK breed site it did say they obviously need a lot of socialisation and training well so does any giant breed but especially the guard dogs and that the males are much more difficult than the females. And that they need to live in the house they shouldn't be out in kennels. Never met one in person but I'm sure like any dog they make wonderful pets with the right owners and are not for people with little dog owning experience


Its not just a case of heat though, which is bad enough, I have to be careful with mine in the summer here, and be sensible, they cant do no where near the exercise, even if you take them out really really early.

Humidity is the killer, In conditions of high humidity they cant cool down, properly.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> ...really that is an example against taking the wrong dog on in the first place, or biting off more than you can chew as the saying goes.


yes, sadly - very true.  it's a sin, as these are wonderful dogs - just not for a *yard,* here. 
in the AC with grooming for a month spring & fall? they are terrific dogs - so long as they get basic manners, 
socialization, exercise & time.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Its not just a case of heat though, which is bad enough, I have to be careful with mine in the summer here, and be sensible, they cant do no where near the exercise, even if you take them out really really early.
> 
> Humidity is the killer, In conditions of high humidity they cant cool down, properly.


Oh I know the heat affects you so much more when it's high humidity. Poor dogs with owners that don't take that into consideration must be hell for them. I can't understand why the commentator at Westminster would say they're fine anywhere though. Surely someone should have pointed that out to him by now


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Humidity is the killer, In conditions of high humidity they cant cool down, properly.


Yes - when i first moved here, my then-vet said, _"on a hot day, think of how uncomfortable U are - 
then treble it - *that's* how Ur dog feels." _

she explained that as dog's cooling system depends upon evaporation, when humidity goes over 70%, 
no matter how hard the dog's 'cooling' is running, they cannot effectively cool - the saturated atmosphere 
makes that impossible.


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## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

Boerboels are beautiful - never heard of them or seen pictures before this thread. And of course I spent some time on youtube after the video link looking at them as puppies and young adults because I get distracted that way. Gorgeous dogs and wonderful pets I'm sure when they're in the right hands.

I'm not going to argue anything as I have no knowledge of the breed (no or little knowledge of most breeds really). All I have to say is I don't understand why people want dogs to protect their homes (or their person) these days. There are security systems available manned by people 24/7 with direct links to the police. I mean sure I'd like my dog to warn me when I'm at home if someone's trying to break in, but I would never want her life in jeopardy. Even a great big born to protect dog (which we don't have) is no match for a gun, a knife or poison even. Believe me most robberies are planned and they're going to know if you have dogs or not and what kind to boot. I'd rather get robbed of our possessions than have my dog hurt or killed, we have insurance. That is in no way intended to offend anyone, just my opinion.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Jonesey said:


> ...I don't understand why people want dogs to protect their homes (or their person) these days.
> There are security systems available manned by people 24/7 with direct links to the police. I mean sure I'd like my dog
> to warn me when I'm at home if someone's trying to break in, but I would never want her life in jeopardy.
> Even a great big born-to-protect dog (which we don't have) is no match for a gun, a knife or poison even.
> ...


yup - my Akita was a wonderful companion & my right-arm when i worked with dog-aggro dogs, since she could be 
absolutely relied upon to NOT react - unless a dog was an active threat, she simply ignored them, giving the dog time 
to cool-out, realize it was not working, & think of something else.

but i would never want my dog to be sacrificed to protect my property; that's not conceivable, the stuff is stuff - 
i cannot BUY another dog to 'replace' any dog i have ever had in my life; that's why their deaths are painful. 
just like other family members, they are unique & themselves irreplaceable.

it was reassuring to have her as an early-warning system when i hiked in bear country - but the idea was not 
to have my dog keep any bear busy while i ran like H***, it was to have the pleasure of her company on the hike, 
have her show me things i might miss & let me into her world a little bit. 
my dogs have always enriched my life with their dogness; they were never a substitute for anything, they WERE the very 
perfect thing - the one thing that i wanted; their gift for the moment, for endless curiosity, their keen senses.

people have this habit of assuming the dog IS _____ - a personal security system, a child-substitute, a love-object, 
a way to get points [dog-sports, ribbons in the breed-ring, etc], a stand-in for a person... 
YES, the dog we inherit when a dear friend or relative dies, is a way of keeping that person alive to us - 
but they are also just themselves, or they should be.

if the only reason that we have a dog is to protect our stuff, IMO then the person should not 
have a dog - any dog; any decent security system is more reliable & cannot be killed by a surprised burglar. 
there's no one at risk when the 'guardian' is an alarm-system on doors & windows, & CCTV at all doors & approaches.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> Also LeashedForLife, you're a dog trainer? Of course *the only time you're going to come into contact with the breed
> is when they are misbehaving*


*of course, U are wrong*  i meet dogs all the time, on the bike-path, on the street, 
on the beach, in the park, at Bark in the Park events, in the pet-supply store, at the vet's waiting room, 
and none 'need' me - they're casual encounters, the dogs are just normal dogs.

not one of the Boerbels i met was for a consultation for problem-behaviors; they were not my clients, 
& the behaviors of the dogs came up in conversation - no-one called me on the phone & said, _this dog is making 
me crazy, help me, s/he is ___________ ... _ they were unplanned meetings at dog-events or around 
the neighborhood, or running errands, walking the beach, and so on.


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Oh dear oh dear, reading this incessant drivel is really starting to make my eyes hurt.

*If anyone wants to fully understand boerboels i would suggest asking about them on one of their breed specific forums*, rather than here.
"*Boerboel enthusiast" is quite a good one* as it has many owners & members on it from all across the globe. The breed organisations "top brass" also post there, as do most of the prominant breeders and specialist trainers worldwide.
*
I must apologise in advance if some of you have a bad time there though, as the site can be a real minefield of attitudes at times, but if you want real world experiences and stories about boerboels, you will certainly get them there, warts and all.*

All anyone is ever going to learn about boerboels on *this* site, is half-truths and a whole load of exaggerated fabrications from the clueless. Sorry to say. No offence intended.


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## saint_bigmal (Jan 11, 2010)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> I'm not arguing, i'm allowing people who read this thread to get a proper understanding of a boerboel from someone who actually owns them and lives with them day to day.
> 
> I gave up on you several pages ago as you're one of those "never shut up/know it all" types...so you just go ahead and spout whatever garbage and back-tracking remarks you like now, i really can't be bothered with you anymore.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with this!! After the amount of research I've done and from reading all the postings on this thread, I have to say leashed4life seems to be quite small minded and tars all dogs with the same brush!!

Before I had a Border Collie years ago, the worst behaved dog - and probably the most aggressive dog - I had ever seen was a Border Collie!! Did I use that dog as a benchmark to judge ALL Border Collies? NO!! Breeds have certain traits yes, and unless you train them properly then these traits could 'potentially' become problematic. Any breed can be dangerous with the incorrect upbringing. The Boerboel is no more or less dangerous than any other dog when it is born in to the world, what makes them or any other dog dangerous are the idiots who MAKE THEM dangerous through either intent or ignorance and lack of training.
Leashed4life seems to be of the opinion that all Boerboels no matter how well you train them, will eat your kids! It's the kind of medieval thinking that demonizes perfectly good breeds and animals in the eyes of the general public, and it's wrong!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

I know nothing about Boerboels and won't pretend to.

I just can't understand how someone who doesn't even own one & probably never has done can try to correct the information of someone who is clearly experienced with them. It is beyond me.

They are a very unusual breed - I live in the same county as the Boerboel owner/breeder concerned on here and I don't think I have ever seen them. How someone can profess to having met so many of such a rare breed is very surprising to me as they aren't your everyday Labrador or Westie.

Fair enough, share your knowledge of them but it's ridiculous to argue against the word of someone who knows the breed on a personal level... rather than someone saying "oh I met one in the park and it was this that and the other"

:glare:


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## Morca34 (Mar 20, 2011)

I am a Boerboel owner and here are some facts regarding the breed which are vital for anyone who is thinking of getting a puppy,and may also serve to dispel some of the unfortunate nonsense that has already been posted here.
Boerboels are large dogs between 50 and 80kg as adults - they are not designed to live in apartments or small houses and will require plenty of exercise and stimulation throughout their lives - like ALL large breed dogs. They do need a strong 'pack leader' and an alpha who is capable of handling them, this is not because they are naturally predisposed to aggression, this is simply not the case, however owing to their size and strength they are capable of causing a lot more damage than a jack russell or a cocker spaniel who is out of control- consequently training is vital.
If you are getting a boerboel you must be willing to commit to training and socialisation for life, I believe this applies to all dogs regardless of breed. Our boerboel is not dog aggressive and is very playful and curious. She has been well socialised from birth.
They are very good with children and common sense should apply 
They will guard you - with their lives if required and they are protective of their own - however they are fine with strangers provided they do not enter the territory without the owner- so burglars beware! Having said that our Boerboel loves people and is full of licks whenever she meets someone new.
My advice is that you visit the UKBC website,ask lots of questions, do lots of research, meet as many Boerboels as you can and make sure that you are fully committed to finding a healthy well bred dog from a reputable recognised breeder.
Boerboels can have health issues which a good breeder will test for before opting to have a litter and its important to ask about that.
Be curious! Remember you are going to paying a lot of money in vets bills if you buy an unhealthy dog.
I cant recommend the breed enough, they are loyal loving playful and fun and you will definitely get out as much as you put in. They are extremely smart and I find ours easy to train. 
I believe all dogs are a reflection of their owners so its easy to blame a breed when in fact its irresponsible breeding and handling that causes issues and gives everyone a bad name.It saddens me that people recklessly post misinformation without first hand experience.
Good luck with your search - The UKBC is a vital port of call for anyone considering this breed.


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## Lancashire_Boerboels (Mar 7, 2011)

Nice post Morca34. 
I mentioned this thread on the UKBC message board this morning, so hopefully, this might become more "factual" soon and the misconceptions about the breed can finally be put to bed.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

saint_bigmal said:


> ...leashed4life seems to be quite small minded and tars all dogs with the same brush!!


when i spoke generically about *guarding breeds* as a group, i said so - 
just as i do when i talk about *terrierrrrists* & their typical traits: vocal, excitable, varminty, etc - 
just as i do when i talk about *herding breeds*, who react to motion, often try to control other dogs 
at the dog-park by cutting off play or body-slams, hip-checks, nipping hocks & the like...

dogs often have past-jobs for which a breed was developed, and the shadows of the behaviors for that employment 
are very long, persisting even when no Lab in a particular line has been used to hunt waterfowl in 20-generations, 
they'll still fetch a flung bumper, floating in the water.  a 6-WO Poodle pup will also often chase & pick-up, 
tho the pup may or may not retrieve; they like other water-dogs, were also used for retrieving. 


saint_bigmal said:


> Before I had a Border Collie years ago, the worst behaved dog - and probably the most aggressive dog -
> I had ever seen was a Border Collie!! Did I use that dog as a benchmark to judge ALL Border Collies? NO!!


any dog of any breed can be aggressive; BCs are notorious for being nippy or snappish, especially if they are 
from an actively-herding lineage or from farm-collies, vs show-lines or pet parents.

i was punched in the jaw by an Aussie a few years back; he hit me from a sit!, on the floor - and i'm 5-ft 8-inches, 
he snapped my head back & clacked my teeth together; the owner was quite shocked, and it turned out that 
his brother-in-law had told him the dog DID THAT to him - and the BiL is 6-ft 2-inches - and the owner, 
who had left his recently-adopted dog in his care for a couple hours - *thought until that moment, 
when his dog punched me, that the BiL had lied about the event.* do i think that Aussie was aggro? 
yes, i do; do i think *all* Aussies are aggro? Not exactly - but they tend to be less biddable & more self-willed 
than a GSD or BC, in my experience; i've had Aussie pups who were the terrors of a play-group, snapping, 
blocking & controlling everybody - we had to put drag-lines on them to stop the constant harassment of other pups.


saint_bigmal said:


> Breeds have certain traits yes, & unless you train them properly then these traits could 'potentially' become problematic.
> Any breed can be dangerous with the incorrect upbringing. The Boerboel is no more or less dangerous than any other dog
> when it is born in to the world, what makes them or any other dog dangerous are the idiots
> who MAKE THEM dangerous through either intent or ignorance and lack of training.


it is possible for a dog to get 'all the right things' - training, socialization, habituation, group classes - 
and still be difficult to manage or even dangerous, despite it; *it's not common, but it happens.* 
i have seen pups from game-bred fighting-dog lines whose parents or grandparents were fought, 
and all of the litter are given good, happy experiences with other dogs, exposure to other breeds as pups, 
including smaller breeds to learn self-handicapping, puppy-play, a group class in basic manners taught with 
rewards, not jerked or choked or poked... and still when approaching puberty at 16 to 20-Weeks-Age, or after 6-MO, 
*one pup* of that litter will become increasingly reactive & aggressive toward other dogs of most any breed, 
including their own siblings when they meet for play away from their own homes - and as they continue to mature, 
their dog-aggression becomes more & more intense; sometimes B-mod can halt the progression & they remain 
dog-*reactive* to some dogs, but are mostly tolerant or friendly to the majority - sometimes B-mod fails, 
and the dog's aggro toward other dogs, practically any other dog, grows as they grow.

it is possible for a breed-trait to surface & be very resistant indeed to being reduced, redirected, or controlled - 
it is possible for a previously-hidden breed trait to emerge full-blown without any prior display, like the pet-BC 
who chased a flock of sheep, dozens of animals, off a cliff to break their legs or die from the fall, when on holiday 
and off-leash in a seaside pasture. :nonod: the dog had never even seen a sheep before, but the instinct to chase 
cost the dog their life, and the owners had to recompense the flock's owners in court. 


saint_bigmal said:


> Leashed4life seems to be of the opinion that all Boerboels no matter how well you train them, will eat your kids!
> It's the kind of medieval thinking that demonizes perfectly good breeds and animals in the eyes of the general public,
> and it's wrong!


i *did not say* that 'all Boerbels will eat Ur kids', or even anything *close to it - *

i said that every Boerbel that i had met in person, all on leash in public - 
OFF their home-turf, so territoriality is not in play - were untouchable by strangers, 
according to their owners who were holding the leashes, & the dogs had been theirs as pups; 
none were second-hand, they could recount all the socialization they'd done, the introductions 
to the vet as pups, being handled by vet-techs, their own handling at home & away, 
accustoming pups to grooming or preventive care: ear-cleaning & looking in their mouths, 
and so on - they all went to puppy-play groups, they all went to basic-manners classes, 
& *they all had dogs i was told* - & believed, i did not test it - *that not i nor anyone else, 
outside their family or well-known friends, could touch.*

there U have it, in sum; like it or lump it, that is my experience of Boerbels.

i've never met one at a show; i do not know if they're on the ARBA do-not-touch list, 
like Tibet Mastiffs & Fila Brasiliero; perhaps show-specimens are friendlier to non-family, 
i wouldn't know; i've met very affable Tibbies at shows, but i've only *seen* Filas...

& none of the Filas i've seen would i have taken any amount of money & a guarantee 
that my medical bills would be covered, to touch them - not one.

*so if there are any Fila-fans, it's time to step forward, annnounce that i'm a flaming liar, 
& say that YOUR DOGS - Ur own personal Fila - are friendly, loving, & as extroverted 
& affable as Labs, and i am a bloody liar, misrepresenting Ur beloved breed as suspicious 
& aloof toward strangers.

i await the hordes of Fila-owners with sweet, licky, approachable Filas with interest. 
i want to see videos of Filas & Boerbels meeting complete strangers, licking them, 
allowing petting on head & body, & pressing against them wagging loosely, 
soliciting more attention - like a Lab, a social Bullmastiff, a Pug, a standard Poodle, 
a friendly Saint, a social Dobe.* My Akita greeted the vets & techs with a waving tail, 
and held a sit-stay for jugular sticks, thru over-18-months of grueling, painful 
treatment for a bleeding disorder; she visited hundreds of people as a therapy pet, 
before her long illness, and counted a number of dogs as playmates. 
cheers,  
- terry


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Lancashire_Boerboels said:


> Shortly after the photos were taken the children mysteriously just disappeared.
> Some say they ran away to join a circus, others talked of alien abduction...but personally i think they were torn to shreds and eaten by the boerboel because, lets be honest, *that's what "those types" of dogs do*...isnt it:tongue_smilie:


Absolutely! 
One must also not forget to mention those disturbing dog on dog agressive moments they all seem to be so guilty of.

Enclosed is a typical example of a teenage Sar' crippling the neighbours poor unfortunate mongrel which inadvertantly strayed onto its territory. 



And a further exampe of how no creature is safe whilst the Sar' is allowed to roam beyond the confines of a high voltage enclosure. 

(Pictured is 'Zara', one of the Sar's we shamefully own, and the remains of the Reindeer which she snatched from the local infant school, December 2010, thus traumatising each and every child and completely ruining the Christmas play into the bargain.


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## nepstein (Mar 20, 2011)

I have been training protection breeds for over 30 years and more importantly have trained a Boerboel to pass a Schutzhund A as well as many GSD's from pups to their Schutzhund 3. For those that are not familiar with Schutzhund is the breed specific test for the German Shepherd Dog. I don't say this in any way to brag, but just to say I don't come to this conversation without portfolio.

For the record I am the trainer-owner that trained the Boerboel Gordo during that video that was mentioned earlier in this dialog. If you want to see more of his training please go to YouTube and in the search block put in normandavidepstein this will take you to some 20 video's of this and dogs at various ages. In those videos' you will see a very assertive Boerboel but that same Boerboel passed all of the test in order to be a *registered* therapy dog. Here is a picture of him doing that work during Katrina with some police that he never met who were down here helping out during that catastrophe.










I posted my YouTube link and this picture to show that no thinking person should ascribe behavior to a breed just because it is that breed. I agree that retrievers like to fetch more than other breeds just as guardian breeds tend to be more suspicious etc. etc. , however that overview is IMO myopic. Because it is not the instinct that we should be breeding for but will they continue that instinct/behavior/function while under duress and if so how long. In order for a dog to be of use it must be balanced because if it is not we lose biddability, drive and work ethic. It is these untested types and those those that were selected first for type i.e., show, that give working breeds their illbegotten reputations. If you select first for type you are by definition creating unbalanced examples. It is good to always remember you get what you select for and what you don't select for you are in fact deselecting, not all at the same time or to the same degree but make no mistake no trait or behavior is immune to this degradation. To create a breed is quite different than maintaining its viability an usefulness. This is reason many Boerboels are unbalanced, fearful and are not dependable regarding protection. But that is not the breeds fault but is the fault of their breeders. It is good to know that when you read this is not a breed for a first time handler, it was in most instances written by a first time owner. In fact if you find a breeder of working Boerboels you will have a much better chance of getting the Boerboel you are reading about on the many web sites devoted to this breed. Moreover the Boerboel doesn't mature until it is about three years of age but are most often bred long before the breeder knows the ultimate temperament of the dogs and or bitches he or she is breeding and I haven't even gone into health testing. Pups from correctly bred and trained Boerboels' and from a breeder who does not just give lip service to the term *responsible* but has done what it takes to have earned that title gives you the best chance of owning a stable Boerboel having all of the traits assigned to the breed and one you can be proud of.


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