# Newspaper ad.



## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

I know this will probably 'add fuel to the fire' but just couldn't ignore it. This ad. was in yeasterdays Western Daily Press.

Unique F1 Labradoodle
Black male puppy
Will make extremely large dog
£750
To experienced home. 

This is more than we are paying for our Mini Daxi pup ( collecting this Monday by the way ) she comes from a breeder with30 years experience, from show winning stock, young sire looking for his 3rd CC.
How someone can charge that sort of money for a pup with no background what so ever just beggars belief. No doubt someone gullible will be willing to pay it.
Mary
x


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Too true Mary, some fashion conscious naive victim will fall prey


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

people with more money than sense


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## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

marlynaveve said:


> Unique F1 Labradoodle
> Black male puppy
> Will make extremely large dog
> £750
> To experienced home.


Wow!! My purebred Dalmatians from great breeders and lines cost nowhere near that!! 

And gotta ask what does *unique F1* mean?


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

gillieworm said:


> Wow!! My purebred Dalmatians from great breeders and lines cost nowhere near that!!
> 
> And gotta ask what does *unique F1* mean?


F1 If Im Correct Means That He/She Is The First Generation

So The Litter Are First Generation Labradoodles

So The Mom/Dad Was A Poodle And The Mom/Dad Was A Labrador

Am I Right ?  Probably Not !


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

gillieworm said:


> Wow!! My purebred Dalmatians from great breeders and lines cost nowhere near that!!
> 
> And gotta ask what does *unique F1* mean?


Mine didnt either and i would not sell my puppys this much its all about greedwith these designer dog breeders


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Found This Online ..

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN F1,F2,F1b ?

Labradoodle F1 puppies are the first cross (50% Labrador and 50% poodle)  ( I WAS RIGHT !  ) and are normally very healthy and have all the health benefits of what is termed hybrid vigour. 
One of the greatest benefits of the F1 is that they are far apart genetically -this gives good health, far less genetically inherited disease and an outstanding temperament and mentality. However this also means that each puppy in the litter is an individual as your children would be. Therefore you will see a wide variety of coats and looks within a litter. Also you must always remember the coat you see as a puppy is not the coat you will have on the adult dog. The smoothest puppy will still grow into a very scruffy mutt! We can show you photos of various coats when you visit.

As puppies their coats will vary from short (looking just like a labrador), medium to long. All lengths will continue to grow and become very scruffy in varying degrees. The coat can also be straight, wavy or curly (rare to see a curly coat in an F1). The coat can also be soft or wiry or in between.
F1 puppies will always have a hair coat not a fleece. 
The F1 will have a lower allergen level than a Labrador and will shed considerably less coat. Scruffies moult around 50% less than a Labrador but they still moult so they are not normally suitable for those with dog allergies. F1 coats are generally easy to care for and do not require clipping. Obviously scruffy, shorter coats being the easiest.

The F1 is very easy to train, very affectionate and excellent for families especially with young children or very noisy households. They are also ideal for those with outdoor lifestyles i.e. mud, beaches etc.

The F1 is also the ideal choice for gun work, agility, flyball or other active pursuits.

They are generally extremely healthy and the toughest type of Labradoodle.

Have a look at Eddie, Jazz, Fizzy, Grace, Alfie and Bobby on the LABRADOODLE TESTIMONIALS

Take note of how much they change from a pup to the adult dog. This coat grows from 6 months onwards.

F2 LabradoodleThe F2 is an F1 crossed to an F1 (a second generation cross) - some people call these multigene. They are still 50% Labrador and 50% Poodle but the genes are more mixed and we have had far more type and colour variety within the litter. We tend to breed them only to produce specific colours or fleece coats.

Within an F2 litter you can see a wide variety of coats from a very curly poodle like fleece to a very short hair coat. The fleece coated puppies have the qualities of an F1b coat as described below and the hair coated have the same qualities as the F1 above. They are very gentle creatures and exceptionally loving.

F1b Labradoodles are 75% Poodle and 25% Labrador i.e. an F1 bitch put to an unrelated Poodle dog. This produces wow factor puppies with amazing coats.

Within an F1b litter you will have both hair and fleece (wool)coats. Those with fleece coats can be better for allergy sufferers or for owners who want a dog that sheds very little. PLEASE NOTE THAT NO DOG CAN BE GUARANTEED NON ALLERGENIC AS IT MAY BE THE DANDER OR SALIVA TO WHICH YOU ARE ALLERGIC AND SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL ALLERGIC TO PURE POODLES

However fleeeces are serious coats and require regular grooming and care and weekly removal of hair from the inside of the ears. They may need to be clipped and you should consider this carefully when you consider buying this type of puppy. The up side is that they are very low shedding and very clean in the house. The down side is that you must be prepared to give them the care and attention they need.

You will also pay more for this type of coat as they are in high demand.

Look at some fleece coated dogs Monty, Rollo and Jack on our LABRADOODLE TESTIMONIALS

F1b Hair Coats are generally long and very attractive but they will shed. Usually less than an F1 but they definitely moult. Again they have a much lower allergen level than a Lab but this does not mean they are suitable for allergy sufferers.

F1b Labradoodlesare very person centred, extremely loving and playful. They are highly intelligent and easy to train. They are ideal for sensitive types of children and make incredible companions. Also extremely good for people or children with disabilities.

Labradoodles especially F1b Labradoodles are LESS allergenic to many people but no one can guarantee that you or your children will not be allergic to them if you are already allergic to other dogs. Anyone with a severe allergy especially asthma should consult their doctor and have allergy testing carried out before even considering purchasing a puppy. It is traumatic for all the family for a pup to have to be rehomed because of allergies. Please think carefully

The Website : Labradoodle Information


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> F1 If Im Correct Means That He/She Is The First Generation
> 
> So The Litter Are First Generation Labradoodles
> 
> ...


breeders like this put a load of rubbish in the adds you have to take most of it with a pinch of salt


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

The old saying comes to mind,A fool and his money are easily parted!

We never paid that for my two,Meg was from good show winning lines,her grandfather won BOB 3 times running at crufts,she was also clear at birth for L2/HC. 
Tyler was also from show winning lines,we had him tested ourselves,still didn't cost as much as they want for the Labradoodle.


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Our Breeding Policy

Health Tested !!! 

Loook ! ^


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Our Breeding Policy
> 
> Health Tested !!!
> 
> Loook ! ^


im not up on what health checks both breeds need.
But my bitch as clear health checks and a great line but i will still not charge this much for a puppyim sorry but its a rip off


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## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks for clearing that up for me.............. although does sound very complicated for a cross


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

I paid less than that for my Golden Retriever and trust me she has got good heritage - she is also from health tested parents and from an excellent breeder.

Now with an F1 Labradoodle you really dont know what you are getting. It could look like a poodle, could look like a lab. I have seen some that look like a lab but with a beard. Quite frankly a pure bred lab looks far more attractive. 

And so do Poodles.

As Harry Enfield says 'I saw you coming'.


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## Katherna (Feb 20, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Our Breeding Policy
> 
> Health Tested !!!
> 
> Loook ! ^


I've just looked at that and the cross bred dogs are more expensive than the pedigrees!


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

They are also breeding quite a few different breeds so i think they sound abit fishy to me


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Sounds like a glorified puppy farmer to me


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm a fashion conscious fool then. Sigh.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> I'm a fashion conscious fool then. Sigh.


Did you pay £750 for a unique F1 lab / poodle cross?


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

I paid £650 for a F1b labradoodle.


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> I paid £650 for a F1b labradoodle.


( F1b Labradoodles are 75% Poodle and 25% Labrador  - Learn Something New Everyday  )

NOO ! I Dont Think Your A Fashion Conscious Fool ! 

I Love Toby


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> I paid £650 for a F1b labradoodle.


Ah so you paid £100 less for a lab / poodle cross...

What made you choose that particular cross breed, did you do any research before buying?


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

I knew what F1B is  the breeder explained it.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> F1 If Im Correct Means That He/She Is The First Generation
> 
> So The Litter Are First Generation Labradoodles
> 
> ...


i now remember a poster saying her mum bought a labradoodle and it looks like gengus out of eastenders,.... i can now see where shes coming from,

coz going by the website u posted Labradoodle Information there is a pic of one on the far top rite showing a labdoodle that does look like gengus lol....so no doubt her labdoodle was a f1.

Rip of prices for a crossbreed...but i spose at least theve been health tested, thats something, but still, i think they are wway way over priced.

to be honest, they are cute dogs, but ild like to know wat mines gonna turn out like wen i buy it lol....if wanted a gengus lookalike ild go by a irish wolfhound lol


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

*well some people have more money than sense  and its all about fashion, not the actual animals or there health checks ect, it boils down to whos got the most fashionable and mine is better than yours attitude *


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> I knew what F1B is  the breeder explained it.


did you know any thing about the cross breed before you went to view the puppies...


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> I knew what F1B is  the breeder explained it.


I Know You Know !!   I Put It Up For Others Incase They Diddnt Know What An F1B Labradoodle Is !! lol


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Dingle said:


> Ah so you paid £100 less for a lab / poodle cross...
> 
> What made you choose that particular cross breed, did you do any research before buying?


gonna finish my hula hoops before I start typing properly...one handed at the mo...

OK...clean fingers.

I did a lot of research on labradoodles whilst deciding which breed I wanted to go for, and also researched other breeds I was interested in like Golden Retrievers and labradors (mainly big friendly dogs). At the time I still didn't know if I was allowed a dog but I was kind of obsessed  going to my mum and dad with new information everyday and wearing them down bit by bit! 
I really started to like labradoodles because I decided I didn't want a labrador because (I know this sounds silly) I didn't really want something lots of people have I wanted something a bit different.  And I joined a labradoodle forum to ask lots of questions etc.

So I was thinking about a labradoodle or a golden retriever eventually. But the decision was made for me when my mum and dad surprised me on my birthday and took me to see a litter of labradoodles and I just completely fell in love with Toby.

Best decision I ever made, and he's worth every penny.


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> I Know You Know !!   I Put It Up For Others Incase They Diddnt Know What An F1B Labradoodle Is !! lol


Lol ok 

Toby just farted.


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> i now remember a poster saying her mum bought a labradoodle and it looks like gengus out of eastenders,.... i can now see where shes coming from,
> 
> coz going by the website u posted Labradoodle Information there is a pic of one on the far top rite showing a labdoodle that does look like gengus lol....so no doubt her labdoodle was a f1.
> 
> ...


Awww lol  I Love Labradoodles But I Would Only Ever Rescue One


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

rottiesloveragdolls said:


> *well some people have more money than sense  and its all about fashion, not the actual animals or there health checks ect, it boils down to whos got the most fashionable and mine is better than yours attitude *


Actually that's not it, I know lots of people with doodles on forums and none of them have that attitude, and nor do I. They're just gorgeous happy friendly dogs and anyone would love having one - they have such character.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Awww lol  I Love Labradoodles But I Would Only Ever Rescue One


exactly the same jasper 

wouldnt catch me paying that price out for one thats for sure...how ever cute they are.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> i now remember a poster saying her mum bought a labradoodle and it looks like gengus out of eastenders,.... i can now see where shes coming from,
> 
> coz going by the website u posted Labradoodle Information there is a pic of one on the far top rite showing a labdoodle that does look like gengus lol....so no doubt her labdoodle was a f1.
> 
> ...


Agree with you Loe 
A womwn on a different forum had one in for boarding and said it resembled a Lurcher 

This is the problem is you have no idea what traits,coats,characteristic's,or how big it will end up....


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> gonna finish my hula hoops before I start typing properly...one handed at the mo...
> OK...clean fingers.
> I did a lot of research on labradoodles whilst deciding which breed I wanted to go for, and also researched other breeds I was interested in like Golden Retrievers and labradors (mainly big friendly dogs). At the time I still didn't know if I was allowed a dog but I was kind of obsessed  going to my mum and dad with new information everyday and wearing them down bit by bit!
> I really started to like labradoodles because I decided I didn't want a labrador because (I know this sounds silly) I didn't really want something lots of people have I wanted something a bit different.  And I joined a labradoodle forum to ask lots of questions etc.
> ...


Thanks for that...
I am in no way slating you for choosing this particular cross breed, the pic of him is great, i just don't understand why breeders of these crosses are charging more than a pedigree.

I understand why you went for a lab / poodle, because you wanted to be different "unique".
Did you buy toby from health tested parents, did you see the parents & which was the poodle & which was the lab in terms of sire & dame?


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

The only things you don't know really is the coat type. Doodles are very varied and you won't know what they'll look like when they grow up!  I think it's a nice surprise.


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> exactly the same jasper
> 
> wouldnt catch me paying that price out for one thats for sure...how ever cute they are.


Even If I Wanted To Buy One I Wouldnt Be Able To Afford It !! 

Jasper Only Cost Us 100 Pounds  ( Oo Yes But Then Bringing Him To Turkey Only Costed Us A Mere 2 Grand !  )


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Dingle said:


> Thanks for that...
> I am in no way slating you for choosing this particular cross breed, the pic of him is great, i just don't understand why breeders of these crosses are charging more than a pedigree.
> 
> I understand why you went for a lab / poodle, because you wanted to be different "unique".
> Did you buy toby from health tested parents, did you see the parents 7 which was the poodle & which was the lad in terms of sire & dame?


I saw the mum, she's a labradoodle and the dad is a standard poodle. They weren't health tested (I've had enough flack about that already) but were both in good general health.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Agree with you Loe
> A womwn on a different forum had one in for boarding and said it resembled a Lurcher
> 
> This is the problem is you have no idea what traits,coats,characteristic's,or how big it will end up....


thats it, a lurcher  wondered where else i see that look lol.

wow imagine paying 750 for a lurcher lookalike, ild be gutted 

not saying lurchers are not nice, but to pay 750 for a dog thats looks the spit of a dog u can pick up for way cheaper, in fact, they used to go for free around where i come from lol.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> I saw the mum, she's a labradoodle and the dad is a standard poodle. They weren't health tested (I've had enough flack about that already) but were both in good general health.


I won't slate you for the lack of health testing after all you didn't breed the pups.
So your pup is a lab / poodle cross poodle ...


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> thats it, a lurcher  wondered where else i see that look lol.
> 
> wow imagine paying 750 for a lurcher lookalike, ild be gutted
> 
> not saying lurchers are not nice, but to pay 750 for a dog thats looks the spit of a dog u can pick up for way cheaper, in fact, they used to go for free around where i come from lol.


They still go free in my circle of friends...


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Dingle said:


> I won't slate you for the lack of health testing after all you didn't breed the pups.
> So your pup is a lab / poodle cross poodle ...


Yup.......


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> Yup.......


Thanks...

So he's now 3 months oldish, what height & weight is he now & what's he like temperament wise?


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

I really want to rescue a labradoodle I've decided.


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Sophiex said:


> I really want to rescue a labradoodle I've decided.


Meee Tooooo


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Dingle said:


> They still go free in my circle of friends...


well there ya ave it... a labradoodle look alike....well one of the doodles anyways lol.


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Meee Tooooo


But I will have to make sure I'm not too allergic. I don't want to be sneeeeezing all the time.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> thats it, a lurcher  wondered where else i see that look lol.
> 
> wow imagine paying 750 for a lurcher lookalike, ild be gutted
> 
> not saying lurchers are not nice, but to pay 750 for a dog thats looks the spit of a dog u can pick up for way cheaper, in fact, they used to go for free around where i come from lol.


Well you can buy a Lurcher pup for around £200,I'd be furious if I paid that for a crossbreed that was totally different and resembled something like a Lurcher.
There is no consistency with the Labradoodle at all,apparently they were first bred in 1989,so the type and coats ought to be established by now.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> well there ya ave it... a labradoodle look alike....well one of the doodles anyways lol.


That's it, you are an effin genious...

My new sales tactic "Dingle-Doodles", the new generation!

Any one wanna lend me a poodle for the weekend...


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Well you can buy a Lurcher pup for around £200,I'd be furious if I paid that for a crossbreed that was totally different and resembled something like a Lurcher.
> There is no consistency with the Labradoodle at all,apparently they were first bred in 1989,so the type and coats ought to be established by now.


wtf 1989  now that has suprised me  and they still aint got a clue wat the coat in the pups is gonna be like. 

must admit, them curly ones are lovely, would be tempted meself if one was sitting in a resce


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Dingle said:


> That's it, you are an effin genious...
> 
> My new sales tactic "Dingle-Doodles", the new generation!
> 
> Any one wanna lend me a poodle for the weekend...


LMAO i know a lady wiv poodles  ill ave a quiet word


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> Lol ok
> 
> Toby just farted.


see, you would't get that with a pedigree dog
this is all getting a bit boring,if a dog is healthy and loved,what does it matter what it is or what its called.
as for the price tag,a pint of lager is overpriced,but if you want a pint you pay it,if not you dont.
what about all the heinz 57s pups in rescue centres,should no one adopt them because we dont know how they will look, or the exact size they will grow to.
we all have genuine concerns over an animals welfare,but a lot of critisisms are down to good old fashioned snobbery.
i'm sure i've just made a lot of friends


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

You just made a friend in me!


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Sophiex said:


> I really want to rescue a labradoodle I've decided.


My next one will be a rescue. 

For my first dog though I wanted to do the whole puppy thing.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> You just made a friend in me!


so what's his height / weight etc...


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

rocky said:


> see, you would't get that with a pedigree dog
> this is all getting a bit boring,if a dog is healthy and loved,what does it matter what it is or what its called.
> as for the price tag,a pint of lager is overpriced,but if you want a pint you pay it,if not you dont.
> what about all the heinz 57s pups in rescue centres,should no one adopt them because we dont know how they will look, or the exact size they will grow to.
> ...


when we pay 750 upwards...it is kinda nice to ave an idea of wat your buying lol...you wouldnt in hell catch me paying that money for something that i ave no clue wat its gonna look like...so yer, ild go to a rescue and get an heinz 57...least that way ive payed a small amount of money for a dog that needs rescuing and normally wen u buy from a rescue, its nyon an adult...so u get more of a clue wat ya dogs gonna look like paying far less pmsl.

gimmi a rescue any day 

so why pay 750 for a dog u aint got a clue will look like...wen u can pay 50 squid for a pup at a rescue and still get one that u aint got a clue will look like  unless its adult  then thats a bonus.coz u know wat it looks like lol.


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Dingle said:


> so what's his height / weight etc...


Sorry lol forgot about your post.

Last time I weighed (few days ago) he was 11kg and I have no idea how tall he is, he probably wouldn't stay still long enough to measure him!


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> For my first dog though I wanted to do the whole puppy thing.


Yes, me too.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> Sorry lol forgot about your post.
> 
> Last time I weighed (few days ago) he was 11kg and I have no idea how tall he is, he probably wouldn't stay still long enough to measure him!


Thanks!

get some recent pic's up for me to have a butchers...


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> My next one will be a rescue.
> 
> For my first dog though I wanted to do the whole puppy thing.


I Get You 

Do You Want To Get A Rescue Labradoodle ?  
Or A Mix ? Or What Breed ?


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> I Get You
> 
> Do You Want To Get A Rescue Labradoodle ?
> Or A Mix ? Or What Breed ?


a labradoodle is a mix


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Going to rescue a labradoodle.  They're gorgeous loving dogs and such fun to be with.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> when we pay 750 upwards...it is kinda nice to ave an idea of wat your buying lol...you wouldnt in hell catch me paying that money for something that i ave no clue wat its gonna look like...so yer, ild go to a rescue and get an heinz 57...least that way ive payed a small amount of money for a dog that needs rescuing and normally wen u buy from a rescue, its nyon an adult...so u get more of a clue wat ya dogs gonna look like paying far less pmsl.
> 
> gimmi a rescue any day
> 
> so why pay 750 for a dog u aint got a clue will look like...wen u can pay 50 squid for a pup at a rescue and still get one that u aint got a clue will look like  unless its adult  then thats a bonus.coz u know wat it looks like lol.


so it comes down to money


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Dingle said:


> Thanks!
> 
> get some recent pic's up for me to have a butchers...


I'll go take some pictures now m'lady. Any excuse for photos of my gorgeous boy!


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

rocky said:


> so it comes down to money


yep...wen paying for a crossbreed that u have no clue wat its gonna look like...you bet it does 

would u go pay 750 for a heinz 57??? knowing it could turn out lookng like ya avrage mongrol???


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> a labradoodle is a mix


haha 

I meant a complete mix bred dog , a mongrel (not a crossbred) .


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> haha
> 
> I meant a complete mix bred dog , a mongrel (not a crossbred) .


hehehe


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> wtf 1989  now that has suprised me  and they still aint got a clue wat the coat in the pups is gonna be like.
> 
> must admit, them curly ones are lovely, would be tempted meself if one was sitting in a resce


Exactly because there breeding anything,just throwing dogs together without thought or consideration.
It seems any old dog will do,as long as the offspring makes loads of money for the Breeder,health testing isn't a priority because it eats into there profit.

Good Breeder's in my breed charge around £600,that includes heath testing,food,pedigrees and Reg documents etc which all have to be paid for,so I can't imagine on why Breeders of these crossbreeds feel it necessary to charge OTT Prices as many of these Breeders do,because they only have the expense of rearing a litter,they don't register them,many don't pay stud fees,give food,etc,so the high price is purely for profit on the Breeders part.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> I'll go take some pictures now *m'lady*.


...

I'm a geezer, or at least i was int shower this morning...


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> yep...wen paying for a crossbreed that u have no clue wat its gonna look like...you bet it does
> 
> would u go pay 750 for a heinz 57??? knowing it could turn out lookng like ya avrage mongrol???


yeah
if it was on death row and i wanted it.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Exactly because there breeding anything,just throwing dogs together without thought or consideration.
> It seems any old dog will do,as long as the offspring makes loads of money for the Breeder,health testing isn't a priority because it eats into there profit.
> 
> Good Breeder's in my breed charge around £600,that includes heath testing,food,pedigrees and Reg documents etc which all have to be paid for,so I can't imagine on why Breeders of these crossbreeds feel it necessary to charge OTT Prices as many of these Breeders do,because they only have the expense of rearing a litter,they don't register them,many don't pay stud fees,give food,etc,so the high price is purely for profit on the Breeders part.


very sad yet so very true 

lets face it, it dont matter wat they thro together, or wat it looks like...as long as its a *labadoodle*...thats all that matters to them, coz that name = ££££££ .


----------



## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Dingle said:


> ...
> 
> I'm a geezer, or at least i was int shower this morning...


LOL Sorry.

Majority of the population on this forums is female. Can't blame me for making assumptions! 

*m'lord


----------



## gillieworm (Jul 4, 2008)

We have a cockerpoo bitch in our training class. She is a gorgeous chocolate colour and had the biggest green eyes you have ever seen. Her coat has fab curls and she always looks like she's stepped right out of a salon.

Now I'd have her.... cross breed or not. I think she's one of the most stunning dogs I have ever seen (after my 2 obviously )


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> very sad yet so very true
> 
> lets face it, it dont matter wat they thro together, or wat it looks like...as long as its a *labadoodle*...thats all that matters to them, coz that name = ££££££ .


That's not all that matters to me. You're making wide insulting generalisations.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

rocky said:


> yeah
> if it was on death row and i wanted it.


if it was on death row  is that the only reason u would rescue ??

next dog i get will be a rescue.... i dont know wat i want, i have no clue, all i know is, i want to rescue a dog...on death row or not, i want to give one a good home, wat looks im going for i ave no clue...will see wen that time comes and i go pick


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> That's not all that matters to me. You're making wide insulting generalisations.


i didnt say you....i meant the breeders of most labradoodles.


----------



## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

And Toby doesn't look like an average mongrel.


----------



## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> LOL Sorry.
> 
> Majority of the population on this forums is female. Can't blame me for making assumptions!
> 
> *m'lord


Forgiven...

just...


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> That's not all that matters to me. You're making wide insulting generalisations.


Were talking about Breeders not owners 

Did your breeder go to a stud dog,or use her own dog ?

In the main the generalisation is correct,this is why you have dogs with such differing traits and apperance because any old dog will do and if you own both parents bingo!No extra expenses


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> And Toby doesn't look like an average mongrel.


did i say he does???

you pay money for a dog that *could* turn out looking like ya avarage mongrol.

wat does toby look like to you ?

ps...im not saying tobys not nice, coz he is cute, i wont deny that, but he could still change, hes only young....u aint got a clue wat hes gonna look like yet have u???? all im saying is, if i payed that much for a dog i would want to know wat its gonna look like.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> And Toby doesn't look like an average mongrel.


Toby looks great, but what doe s the average mongrel look like...


----------



## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

He's going to look like a labradoodle...lol. Lots of people have said to me he looks a lot like their doods when they were puppys so I have a good idea.  Whatever he turns out like he's going to be beautiful.


----------



## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> He's going to look like a labradoodle...lol. Lots of people have said to me he looks a lot like their doods when they were puppys so I have a good idea.  Whatever he turns out like he's going to be beautiful.


with out a breed or cross breed standard, no one can actually say what a lab / poodle should look like...


----------



## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Dingle said:


> with out a breed or cross breed standard, no one can actually say what a lab / poodle should look like...


Yep, but there is a general trend. 

I don't care anyway, lol.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Dingle said:


> Toby looks great, but what doe s the average mongrel look like...


u know a crossbreed wen u see one, thats wat i meant...u can just tell...toby is cute as i said be4.... he could change alot... hes hair could grow...it mite not get no longer,,,so as he gets bigger hes hair could seem shorter lol.
no doubt rosk knew this be4 she bought toby...so eitha way it dont matter to her does it


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> if it was on death row  is that the only reason u would rescue ??
> 
> next dog i get will be a rescue.... i dont know wat i want, i have no clue, all i know is, i want to rescue a dog...on death row or not, i want to give one a good home, wat looks im going for i ave no clue...will see wen that time comes and i go pick


no thats not the only reason,
but if one was was £50 and safe,and one was £750 and on death row i would pay £750 for a mongrel.

all a bit immaterial, not looking at the moment


----------



## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> u know a crossbreed wen u see one, thats wat i meant...u can just tell...toby is cute as i said be4.... he could change alot... hes hair could grow...it mite not get no longer,,,so as he gets bigger hes hair could seem shorter lol.
> no doubt rosk knew this be4 she bought toby...so eitha way it dont matter to her does it


He could even moult & shed like the best of them...


----------



## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Pics up in the pics section.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

rocky said:


> no thats not the only reason,
> but if one was was £50 and safe,and one was £750 and on death row i would pay £750 for a mongrel.
> 
> all a bit immaterial, not looking at the moment


and so would i pay 750 for one on death row, and by saying death row i mean about to be pts.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Dingle said:


> He could even moult & shed like the best of them...


he could ...then again, maybe he wont 

only time will tell 

and to be honest to roski... if i had to pick a ladradoodle, toby is the type ild go for...along wiv the really curly coated sort.


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Toby's coat will probably get a bit longer with a gentle curl, so he'll stay looking the same as his body gets bigger.  His mum had quite a flat coat as a young puppy then got curlier so Toby could get curlier still too. 

We'll know when he gets his adult coat!


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> and so would i pay 750 for one on death row, and by saying death row i mean about to be pts.


 agreed


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> Toby's coat will probably get a bit longer with a gentle curl, so he'll stay looking the same as his body gets bigger.  His mum had quite a flat coat as a young puppy then got curlier so Toby could get curlier still too.
> 
> We'll know when he gets his adult coat!


i know ive said the things ive said...i dont mean it to be nasty i want u to understand that.

but at he end of the day...it is all down to preference aint it.

but me personally would pay that amount for a dog i wont have a clue wat he will look like.

can i ask u tho...would u be happy if he turned out like gengus lol??? no doubt u will still love him, but would you prefer it if he stays how he looks now rather then look like gengus??? just asking


----------



## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Lol I actually love Genghis, he's my favourite breed of dog. So yeah I'd be happy!


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> Lol I actually love Genghis, he's my favourite breed of dog. So yeah I'd be happy!


thats good then lol.

do u think toby will look like the dog on the left of this link??? Labradoodle Information

if u had to pick between the 4 of them, how would u prefer toby to look like.


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> thats good then lol.
> 
> do u think toby will look like the dog on the left of this link??? Labradoodle Information
> 
> if u had to pick between the 4 of them, how would u prefer toby to look like.


Awww Look At The 3rd One ( From The Left ) 

Number 1 Is My Favourite But There All Beautiful


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Awww Look At The 3rd One ( From The Left )
> 
> Number 1 Is My Favourite But There All Beautiful


lol it looks like a snowball haha...cute tho.

i do prefer 1 and 2.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

I prefer 1 & 4, they look like they could make good working dogs...


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Dingle said:


> I prefer 1 & 4, they look like they could make good working dogs...


4 looks like a lurcher...wolfhound,,,,actually, abit like ur avador lol.

do u own lurchers?? or wolfhounds???


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## whispers (Sep 2, 2008)

My Affies were mistaken for labradoodles more than once when they were still in their puppy coats. Not now though.


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Everyyyyyone asks if my toy poodle is a labradoodle. I know he doesn't look like a poodle but yeah, it's weird.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

whispers said:


> My Affies were mistaken for labradoodles more than once when they were still in their puppy coats. Not now though.


wat breed u got??? edited... ok just checked out ur images...u got standered poodles lol...oh god, edited again, they are afgan hounds lol.


Sophiex said:


> Everyyyyyone asks if my toy poodle is a labradoodle. I know he doesn't look like a poodle but yeah, it's weird.


well to be honest...wen poodles ave their full coats...i actually think they look like the curly sort labradoodle lol.


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## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> That's not all that matters to me. You're making wide insulting generalisations.


But you'r not the breeder, you are paying out the cash not raking it in 
Mary
x


----------



## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> And Toby doesn't look like an average mongrel.


That's true, you struck lucky Toby is a gorgeous looking boy 
Mary
x


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## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> He's going to look like a labradoodle.


Yes but they all look different, thats the point.
Mary
x


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

whispers said:


> My Affies were mistaken for labradoodles more than once when they were still in their puppy coats. Not now though.





Eolabeo said:


> wat breed u got??? edited... ok just checked out ur images...u got standered poodles lol.


I thought Whispers owned an Afghan Hound ?


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> well to be honest...wen poodles ave their full coats...i actually think they look like the curly sort labradoodle lol.


I've never seen a labradoodle who's as curly as a poodle with their very curly coats.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> I thought Whispers owned an Afghan Hound ?


yer i see...i corrected that lol  hides wiv embrassment lol. shes so gonna kill me lol.


Sophiex said:


> I've never seen a labradoodle who's as curly as a poodle with their very curly coats.


there was this poodle at the vets years ago,,a standered...he had full grown fur...and looking at some labdoodles, i do see a very simalar look in them.  ther are all sorts of doodles aint ther


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

If i wanted a cross i would only buy one from a rescue


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> If i wanted a cross i would only buy one from a rescue


same 

i wonder how much that bulldog/beagle is going for??? i wanna know lol.


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> thats good then lol.
> 
> do u think toby will look like the dog on the left of this link??? Labradoodle Information
> 
> if u had to pick between the 4 of them, how would u prefer toby to look like.


He'll probably look like the one on the left.  If his face gets that hairy. I'll have a look on doodle forums and post some pics of how he might turn out.


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> there was this poodle at the vets years ago,,a standered...he had full grown fur...and looking at some labdoodles, i do see a very simalar look in them.  ther are all sorts of doodles aint ther


Yes, very true. See that's the thing, you never quite know.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> He'll probably look like the one on the left.  If his face gets that hairy. I'll have a look on doodle forums and post some pics of how he might turn out.


yer that would be interesting... non the less, i meself think youve got the best looking sort of doodle out the bunch...ur very lucky

can i ask, did tobys litter m8s look like him or was they different??? not sure if i asked u that question be4??


Sophiex said:


> Yes, very true. See that's the thing, you never quite know.


true lol


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> yer that would be interesting... non the less, i meself think youve got the best looking sort of doodle out the bunch...ur very lucky
> 
> can i ask, did tobys litter m8s look like him or was they different??? not sure if i asked u that question be4??
> 
> true lol


There was one of them that looked very flat coated, and the other two weren't as wavy as Toby. 

When we went to pick him up the breeder said he'd turned out to be the pick of the litter, and many people had said so!


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> same
> 
> i wonder how much that bulldog/beagle is going for??? i wanna know lol.


Year i bet they are pricey

i will charge far less for my next cav puppys than these labradoodlesi realy carnt believe how much profit they are making on these dogs...its disgusting


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> There was one of them that looked very flat coated, and the other two weren't as wavy as Toby.
> 
> When we went to pick him up the breeder said he'd turned out to be the pick of the litter, and many people had said so!


would your breeder take toby back if you was not happy or he developed health problems


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

I Found A Bag ! But No Puppies .. 
Bully Basset Bag from Zazzle.com

And A Website With All The Names Of Cross Breeds :

Responsible & dedicated breeders of designer dogs - ACHC Recognised Breeds

Is There Such Thing As The ACHC ?
Ooo And 'My' Breed (Springer) Crosses :

English Springer Spaniel x Lab = Labradinger

English Springer Spaniel x Poodle = Springerdoodle


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> lol
> 
> dont you mean bulldog/basset hound ?


haha leave me be you pmsl...im aving one of them days haha 

psssst..i did mean bulldog/bassett lol.  *hides again* 

i did actually find a beabull lol


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> haha leave me be you pmsl...im aving one of them days haha
> 
> psssst..i did mean bulldog/bassett lol.  *hides again*
> 
> i did actually find a beabull lol


lol whats up with you today  ? im teasing


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

Got some pictures from labradoodle forums and doodlemania to show you what Toby might turn out like (credits to all these beautiful dood's owners of course).

This is Murphy, he looked very similar to Toby as a pup.









A lighter colour than Toby but similar coat wise, this is the gorgeous Loui!









Jack and Becki (BOTH doodles). Toby might end up like Jack but blonde. 









And this is ELMO THE BEAR!!!! He's so gorgeous, I met him last weekend and he's soooooo gorgeous. And Toby looks like his miniature. The Bear is actually a Goldendoodle though. 









Hope people don't mind me using their pictures!


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## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> would your breeder take toby back if you was not happy or he developed health problems


Not talking about that, talking about how Toby will turn out. 

And even though I've answered your questions before, yes she would.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> Got some pictures from labradoodle forums and doodlemania to show you what Toby might turn out like (credits to all these beautiful dood's owners of course).
> 
> This is Murphy, he looked very similar to Toby as a pup.
> 
> ...


ooooooo i like that last one...actually that first one is nice aswell...

actually they are all nice ffs but i do like them 2 cream ones.

i recon toby is gonna look like eitha pic 1 or that last pic.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> Not talking about that, talking about how Toby will turn out.
> 
> And even though I've answered your questions before, yes she would.


Thats good to hear that

What colour would you want next times?

what colour was the rest of tobys litter and what colour was mum and dad?


----------



## Rosikus (Aug 10, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> Thats good to hear that
> 
> What colour would you want next times?
> 
> what colour was the rest of tobys litter and what colour was mum and dad?


I don't mind what colour.  I really like the chocolate ones though.

Toby's dad was an apricot poodle, and his mum was very light cream. And all the puppys were same colour as Toby.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> There was one of them that looked very flat coated, and the other two weren't as wavy as Toby.
> 
> When we went to pick him up the breeder said he'd turned out to be the pick of the litter, and many people had said so!


have u seen any updated pictures of his litter m8s??? if not, get back intouch wiv the breeder and ask if any of the owners of toby's ltter m8s have sent in pics...would be nice to see how toby has turned out compaired to the others.


----------



## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> I don't mind what colour.  I really like the chocolate ones though.
> 
> Toby's dad was an apricot poodle, and his mum was very light cream. And all the puppys were same colour as Toby.


He'll probably turn quite cream. Oscar was apricot but is going more cream and the breeder expected him to turn very cream.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Hi

I think it's good that there is a variety through the breed. It is fairly easy to tell how they'll turn out as the pups always show indications of coat type.

The original Labradoodle (now known as an ASD - Australian Service Dog) is well established and the breed is consistent. I've seen many ASD's and even though coat colour varies (as with most breeds) the consistent look everyone seems concerned about is there.

As for cost, I agree with a previous poster. You get what you pay for. Hopefully (IMO) Labradoodles and Goldendoodles (and other crosses of a similar nature) will not be recognised by the KC as that would mean the KC would issue a breed standard no doubt leading to health problems. I am not saying that crosses do not have health problems but at least these are simply genetic/environment led "accidents", and not part of some requirement of the KC. I don't see the benefit of KC papers and would not pay for that; I have more faith in people and would want to meet mum, dad, breeder, environment etc - the "piece of paper" thing just doesn't cut it with me.


Edited to say - BTW, Toby is more stunning in real life with fantastic temperment and socilised really well, even when surrounded by a gang of huge doodles. I'd also add that I have never seen a breed interact with each other so well from the word go. I have collies as well and whilst I love them to bits, they are also a little cautious a territorial... never found that in a doodle so maybe that's some consistency.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Hi
> 
> I think it's good that there is a variety through the breed. It is fairly easy to tell how they'll turn out as the pups always show indications of coat type.
> 
> ...





Elmo the Bear said:


> .


so ur saying all dogs with the kc have bad health becoz they have a standered??? pmsl.

All dogs have their faults and hireditary defects wether they are wiv the kc or not . so really wat u are also saying is, by the kc reconising the labradoodle, it will make the labradoodle unhealthyer becoz they mite give it a standered??? thats wat ur saying.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Hopefully (IMO) Labradoodles and Goldendoodles (and other crosses of a similar nature) will not be recognised by the KC as that would mean the KC would issue a breed standard no doubt leading to health problems.


This statement drives me bonkers!!!
The KC DO NOT set Breed Standards.Breeders and Breed Clubs do.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

wat changes can anyone possibly do to a labradoodle?? lol


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## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

I am also the proud owner of 'designer dogs'. I have two cockapoos who are absolutely the best thing since sliced bread! I did quite a bit of research after falling in love with a neighbour's cockapoos and deciding on a breeder. I did a lot of checking into the breeder to make sure I was happy she was not a puppy farm. The parents were health tested and both my puppies are happy, healthy dogs.

I decided on cockapoos because I love the way they look and their natures. 

I have to say both Toby and Elmo are absolutely gorgeous and if I had been having one dog I would have had a 'doodle' but as I was having two I went for the smaller option!

Jane


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

whos elmo??? i aint seen elmo doodle???


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

spoodlemum said:


> I am also the proud owner of 'designer dogs'. I have two cockapoos who are absolutely the best thing since sliced bread! I did quite a bit of research after falling in love with a neighbour's cockapoos and deciding on a breeder. I did a lot of checking into the breeder to make sure I was happy she was not a puppy farm. The parents were health tested and both my puppies are happy, healthy dogs.
> 
> I decided on cockapoos because I love the way they look and their natures.
> 
> ...


Nice to see someone buy from health tested parents, what were they tested for btw...


----------



## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

There are some really nice photos of Elmo in introductions.

The parents eyes and hips were tested and they were DNA tested for PRA and PFK. I'll be honest and tell you I don't know what the tests were for but I passed the results to my vet and he said the results were excellent!

Jane


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

spoodlemum said:


> There are some really nice photos of Elmo in introductions.
> 
> The parents eyes and hips were tested and they were DNA tested for PRA and PFK. I'll be honest and tell you I don't know what the tests were for but I passed the results to my vet and he said the results were excellent!
> 
> Jane


ive just gone and had a look...hes really nice aint he...i can imagine toby looking like him.


----------



## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> This statement drives me bonkers!!!
> The KC DO NOT set Breed Standards.Breeders and Breed Clubs do.


For example:

"Great Dane Breed Standard

10-May-06

© The Kennel Club - Unauthorised Reproduction of Text and Images Prohibited"

I haven't reproduced the rest as it's copyright but is here Great Dane Breed Standard - The Kennel Club

....

one for each "recognised" breed. The clubs may set them but the KC promulgate them and advertise them. This is what breeder muist comply with to have a "pedigree" breed... correct?


----------



## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

This looks a friendly forum but i do not class my dog as a designer dog she is just my pet.
I also have a so called "designer dog" so do most people i think arent most dogs designed through breed etc.
I do believe us humans may of designed a few


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> As for cost, I agree with a previous poster. You get what you pay for. Hopefully (IMO) Labradoodles and Goldendoodles (and other crosses of a similar nature) will not be recognised by the KC as that would mean the KC would issue a breed standard no doubt leading to health problems.


You stated the above which is incorrect,Breeders and Breed Clubs write the standard which is then approved by the KC when the breed is recognised.


Elmo the Bear said:


> For example:
> 
> "Great Dane Breed Standard
> 
> ...


And ?
The KC approves and owns the copyright,if the standard needs changing again that would be done by breeders and breed clubs and approved by The KC.
Your correct in saying every breed has one,yes.
Breeders breed to the standard,that's how the breed remains pure and every dog of that breed should and can be recognised.
You have a traceable database with the KC,you know which lines your pup has been bred from,which helps when breeding,you can see which lines are compatable with your dog,you can see what hereditary conditions are with those lines.


----------



## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> You stated the above which is incorrect,Breeders and Breed Clubs write the standard which is then approved by the KC when the breed is recognised.
> 
> And ?
> The KC approves and owns the copyright,if the standard needs changing again that would be done by breeders and breed clubs and approved by The KC.
> ...


Hi

Didn't really come on here for a row, but, I said the KC "issue" the breed standards (which they do - plain text or illustrated). My worry is that the compliance with a breed standard, even if that standard promotes poor health, is non-negotiable if you want your dogs to be "recognised".

It's actually worse that they are defined by the breed clubs then promulgated by the KC as you cannot contest them and there is no regulated body responsible.

The breeders I know breed for good health as they are not constrianed by the breed standards issued by the KC.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Hi
> 
> Didn't really come on here for a row, but, I said the KC "issue" the breed standards (which they do - plain text or illustrated). My worry is that the compliance with a breed standard, even if that standard promotes poor health, is non-negotiable if you want your dogs to be "recognised".
> 
> ...


You said the KC issue the standard,I took that to mean that you thought they set the standard for the breed which they don't.If you want a breed to be recognised by the KC you need to adhere to the following,
Recognition of new breeds
31-Aug-06

The Kennel Club General Committee will consider an application for recognition of a breed once there are specimens of it resident in the UK. In general, an application should consist of:

Names & addresses of UK owners/importers 
Total number of dogs of the breed in the UK 
Copies of pedigrees of UK dogs  at least 3 generations 
Recognition status in the country of origin 
Details of Registration body in country of origin 
Breed Registration statistics in country of origin and other countries 
Show entry statistics in country of origin and at international level 
Details of any inherited conditions prevalent in the breed 
If the breed has been crossbred, when the registry closed 
Brief history of the breed & photographs 
Breed Standard from country of origin and date of first internationally recognised standard 
For Working Breeds  details of activities. 
Recognition of a breed allows registration on the Imported Breeds Register, although the breed would not be eligible for exhibition until such time as an Interim Breed Standard is published. This is not considered at the same time as recognition, as it is the Kennel Clubs policy to allow the breed to develop slowly before show participation is permitted.

Breed recognition is at the discretion of the Kennel Club General Committee. The policy on the recognition of new breeds is currently under review and therefore additional information may be requested and further criteria may be introduced.

Don't worry I can't see the KC accepting the Labradoodle as breed in it's own right for years.
What I worry about is the degree of inbreeding that maybe taking place within the breed,with no pedigree or history you simply haven't a clue if your breeding brother to sister etc.Then you maybe doubling up on a faulty gene which WILL cause health problems.


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## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

I know one of the reasons I didn't want a pedigree poodle was that many years ago I had a minature poodle with hip problems and I really didn't want to see another dog suffer in that way. I am talking many years ago and I am sure things have moved on since then but I just didn't want to take the risk.

I must say that when I saw the tv programme about breeders I was very pleased I hadn't gone for a pedigree.

I always understood mongrels and cross breeds were healthiest and I wanted some idea of how the dogs would look and size etc. That is why I went for spoodles - I knew they would be about 17" at the shoulder and a rough idea of their coats.

Jane


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> What I worry about is the degree of inbreeding that maybe taking place within the breed,with no pedigree or history you simply haven't a clue if your breeding brother to sister etc.Then you maybe doubling up on a faulty gene which WILL cause health problems.


We agree on something which is a start. The problem I have with pedigree lines (some breeds) is that the gene pool is narrowed so much due to "best of breed" and show winners being demanded for stud, that the pool is dangerously narrow. So I agree you know the lines but they are being ignored (as there is no rule I can see to stop it) and inbreeding is taking place... this is also happening with dogs that have known health problems. With a pedigree you know if you are bredding brother sister / father daughter but there is nothing to say you can't do that and no-one to regulate.

So you have two issues... inbreeding/breeding unhealthy dogs inside pedigrees (as there is no regulation) and inbreeding of crossbreeds such as Labradoodles / Goldens etc.

My issue here is that everyone thinks that by being a "recognised breed", the KC will regulate to ensure only good, healthy breeding practices... which they don't.. in fact, as you rightly pointed out, they have absolutely nothing to with it. The KC don't even make health screening madatory... it's just an option.

So who regulates? 'Pedigree' dog breeding is unregulated as is non-pedigree breeding. My point was, the KC are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> We agree on something which is a start. The problem I have with pedigree lines (some breeds) is that the gene pool is narrowed so much due to "best of breed" and show winners being demanded for stud, that the pool is dangerously narrow. So I agree you know the lines but they are being ignored (as there is no rule I can see to stop it) and inbreeding is taking place... this is also happening with dogs that have known health problems. With a pedigree you know if you are bredding brother sister / father daughter but there is nothing to say you can't do that and no-one to regulate.
> 
> So you have two issues... inbreeding/breeding unhealthy dogs inside pedigrees (as there is no regulation) and inbreeding of crossbreeds such as Labradoodles / Goldens etc.
> 
> ...


I understand the points you've made,not to sure about the last one though.
Where would we be without the KC,dogs and breeds would be in a worse state than what we already have.
The Kennel Club's Plans Following the Broadcast of Passionate Productions Programme - Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Kennel Club
To repeat, the KC is far from complacent; where health is concerned more can always be done  and it is being done. The Kennel Club is proud of the many actions which it and the many breeders and breed clubs have been taking for over 20 years to improve canine health and welfare, and just how far we have already come. For example:

The development of the KC/BVA health screening programmes 
The funding and support to enable a vast number of DNA tests to be developed 
The many breed club health programmes 
The health initiatives in partnership with the veterinary profession 
The Kennel Club Accredited Breeder Scheme 
The introduction of working stock to widen gene pools in some breeds 
The KC/BSAVA canine health survey of 52,000 dogs 
The health inspired changes to breed standards 
The education programmes for judges and breeders 
The canine research projects funded by the Kennel Club Charitable Trust 
The recent facilitation of the Imperial College work quoted in the TV programme 
The introduction of the Fit for function: fit for life campaign 
And there are many more initiatives. The Kennel Club is a concerned and conscientious organisation which has as its main objective the general improvement of dogs. As such it defends the commendable actions of responsible breeders, and is proud of the role it has played in both developing and promoting them.

Future plans:

While the Kennel Club already had in place an ongoing detailed strategic plan to deal with all the key health issues, the recent Pedigree Dogs Exposed programme has catapulted this topic firmly into the public eye and has added urgency to our existing activity. Some of this activity has already been announced, but the Kennel Club would like to take this opportunity to outline generally what initiatives are currently under consideration.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

You'll never convince me the KC is a good thing and I guess I'm not going to convince you it is not the right organisation for the job... so.

I thought I'd mention I agree with your 'logo' below your name... about don't blame the breed. One of our dogs is a collie / staffy cross called Amber. She's getting on a bit now (14) but has had none of the arthritis problems usually associated with collies. I'm convinced this is because of the cross and the fact she has a stcoky build.... anyway... we went to "The Cold Wet Nose Show" near Guildford and met a whole group of staffy's and owners... to be honest they were the best behaved dogs there and were unfased by the arrival of a groups of doodles (which is like a villiage idiot convention at the best of times).


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Nice to hear about the positive's about my breed,they do get an awful lot of bad press.
It's great your oldie is doing very well too 
My friend and mentor has an oldie SBT,he's 17 now and still going strong apart from he's going a little deaf due to his age.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

marlynaveve said:


> I know this will probably 'add fuel to the fire' but just couldn't ignore it. This ad. was in yeasterdays Western Daily Press.
> 
> Unique F1 Labradoodle
> Black male puppy
> ...


Not a bad price £750. If you were looking for a original labradoodle (ASD - Australian Service Dog) you could pay up to £2000 although the price is coming down a little now.

You no doubt paid around £500 for a reasonable TV, about 28"... how much do you think it's actually worth? And your washing machine.... metal box, a cheap electirc motor and one, maybe two circuit boards....£300 ?

You make assumptions on history. I know a couple of breeders and they all have history that would equal that of a "pedigree"... plus the fact, it's only a piece of paper isn't it... you don't really know what you're getting with any dog.. do you ?


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## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Not a bad price £750. If you were looking for a original labradoodle (ASD - Australian Service Dog) you could pay up to £2000 although the price is coming down a little now.
> 
> You no doubt paid around £500 for a reasonable TV, about 28"... how much do you think it's actually worth? And your washing machine.... metal box, a cheap electirc motor and one, maybe two circuit boards....£300 ?
> 
> You make assumptions on history. I know a couple of breeders and they all have history that would equal that of a "pedigree"... plus the fact, it's only a piece of paper isn't it... you don't really know what you're getting with any dog.. do you ?


A pedigree IS just a piece of paper true, but its the info. written on it that is important.To those who don't understand how to read a pedigree then yes it means nothing, and some infact mean just that ,nothing just a list of dogs names. As for my Tele and washing m/c etc. I wouldn't buy one I new nothing about but would go for a brand that had been around for a few years that had a good reputation, (or pedigree if you like) 
Mary
x


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Al dogs can have a pedigree,I have seen made up pedigrees where the sire has actually been bitch and vice versa.

With a KC Reg dog,you know the rough size it will be,you know what sort of breed traits it will have,you know all of it's history as the dogs are all on record and held in a database with the KC,my breed has a database for L2/HC,for Clears,Carriers and Affecteds with the KC.We can even check this out online if we are unsure of a dog's status.
A pedigree is only a piece of paper,maybe but to me it's alot more than that,I know I can check it with the KC,all the dogs throughout the pedigree are on the KC's database.

I knew when I brought both of my dogs that they would resemble the breed they are supposed to be,I knew my bitch was clear for hereditary conditions as her Parents are tested clear,I knew the dogs behind both of mine,most proving themselves both in and out of the ring,in terms of temperament,health,breed type,quality, and consistency.
I know by looking at both pedigree's who bred what dogs.
So in terms of you don't know what your getting,I disagree.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Hi again

My point was one of trust. The papers you see could have been produced anywhere.. as I understand the KC system, once youy have your pedigree and "name" you simply give them a ring and tell them you've had litter - DNA testing is voluntary (meaning a dishonest breeder could have dogs from anywhere)..

am I wrong? I've read the rules and the "strongly recommended" and I can see no guarantee.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Hi again
> 
> My point was one of trust. The papers you see could have been produced anywhere.. as I understand the KC system, once youy have your pedigree and "name" you simply give them a ring and tell them you've had litter - DNA testing is voluntary (meaning a dishonest breeder could have dogs from anywhere)..
> 
> am I wrong? I've read the rules and the "strongly recommended" and I can see no guarantee.


All tests for my breed are printed on the KC Registration certificates,no you don't just ring them and tell them you've had a litter,you complete a litter registration form either online or post it,it also requires the stud owners signature.
Alot of breeders also do DNA Profiling of there dogs which can prove parentage.
Of course dishonest people will always find a way around something,nothing in this life is foolproof.


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## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Of course dishonest people will always find a way around something,nothing in this life is foolproof.


I totally agree with you there,this is SO true. All the more reason to go to a reputable breeder
Mary
x


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Hi again
> 
> My point was one of trust. The papers you see could have been produced anywhere.. as I understand the KC system, once youy have your pedigree and "name" you simply give them a ring and tell them you've had litter - DNA testing is voluntary (meaning a dishonest breeder could have dogs from anywhere)..
> 
> am I wrong? I've read the rules and the "strongly recommended" and I can see no guarantee.


the point you have raised is so true..as was high lighted on gmt a few weeks ago..puppy farmers were giving out pedigrees and kc papers...


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

marlynaveve said:


> I totally agree with you there,this is SO true. All the more reason to go to a reputable breeder
> Mary
> x


I agree, but KC registered does not necessarily = reputable and without regulation how do you check?

My point was KC or not KC, the whole issue is about trust. I want a breeder who will say things like "come round when you like" not "Don't arrive before 2" ... why would that happen? Something to hide...

I also want a breeder who will ask me as many questions as I'll ask them. To me the "paperwork" is a formality at the end, I've never considered the purchase of a dog a transaction, it's a two way commitment.

Coming back to the issue of price (and without wishing to use the Stella Artois argument), if I'm paying £750 - £1000 - £2000 for a dog I am gong to be very very very careful what I'm doing. I want to see mum and dad and littermates (if they're still there) and if they're not, I want to talk to previous buyers and I want reputation both within the "breed" and from customers.

I can get that with a dog costing 'that' amount of money, with many (not all...and I'm sure the majority of KC breeders are great) breeders I get nothing other than a piece of paper as some sort of guarantee... sorry, not working for me


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I agree, but KC registered does not necessarily = reputable and without regulation how do you check?
> 
> My point was KC or not KC, the whole issue is about trust. I want a breeder who will say things like "come round when you like" not "Don't arrive before 2" ... why would that happen? Something to hide...
> 
> ...


You may be very careful as you've stated but been a breeder,money from a buyer means nothing to me whatsoever,it doesn't guarentee anything,certainly not a home for life.My puppies are sold under contract with a pedigree,KC reg documents endorsed,insurance,puppy packs including food,toy,a piece of bedding,crate traing article,toilet training article,contact details,copies of health testing cerificates etc....
I ask loads of questions,I also want to see proof they have been given permission to own a dog if they are in rented accomadation,I want to know why they want a SBT,what they will do when on hoilday etc...
As for seeing both parents at the breeders property,it would indicate to me straight away,that they have used there own dog to save on costs.(this may not be the case but it is in the majority of cases)You should be looking for the best stud to suit your lines and bitch,not to save on costs.

So what are you getting for a £750 Labradoodle ?You can't even be sure of parentage as the breed is so inconsistant?Even litter sibings look very different ?


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## butterfly (Oct 4, 2008)

Well i too am a labradoodle owner! She is an F2, and i would of paid double what i paid for her (550!), she isnt a curly coat, and does molt a little, i'd love her if she was free, or one million pounds, a pedigree (Probably a cross somewhere down the line!), a street dog, a pamperd pooch or even the latest craze in my area, the staff! She is my baby and i wont hear a bad word about her! Cross breeds are sometimes the best way to out breed, breed problems, and Summer has such a comical veiw of life, i am so glad i chose the best type of doggie in the world!!









THE MOST GORGEOUS GIRL IN THE WORLD!


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

butterfly said:


> Cross breeds are sometimes the best way to out breed, breed problems,


Could you elaborate on this please ?
How can you breed out specific breed conditions by cross breeding

The only way to breed out and eliminate conditions is by testing and using clear dogs.

Two unrelated dogs of the same breed or different breeds,can produce affected puppies,if they carry the faulty gene.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Personally, if I were to choose a mixed breed I'd instantly know two things: -

I don't know what its going to look like as a adult dog.
I don't know the size it will grow to.

This is irrespective of hereditary health issues, within the various breeds.

I would not pay more for a mixed breed than a predigree.


Sue


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

butterfly said:


> Well i too am a labradoodle owner! She is an F2, and i would of paid double what i paid for her (550!), she isnt a curly coat, and does molt a little, i'd love her if she was free, or one million pounds, a pedigree (Probably a cross somewhere down the line!), a street dog, a pamperd pooch or even the latest craze in my area, the staff! She is my baby and i wont hear a bad word about her! Cross breeds are sometimes the best way to out breed, breed problems, and Summer has such a comical veiw of life, i am so glad i chose the best type of doggie in the world!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol thats the poodle coming out in her....i thnk she looks lovely


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## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

butterfly said:


> Well i too am a labradoodle owner! She is an F2, and i would of paid double what i paid for her (550!), she isnt a curly coat, and does molt a little, i'd love her if she was free, or one million pounds, a pedigree (Probably a cross somewhere down the line!), a street dog, a pamperd pooch or even the latest craze in my area, the staff! She is my baby and i wont hear a bad word about her! Cross breeds are sometimes the best way to out breed, breed problems, and Summer has such a comical veiw of life, i am so glad i chose the best type of doggie in the world!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree you're dog looks gorgeous, but this isn't about you're dog or in fact any dog, its about the breeders who are breeding them. There are breeders who have spent a life time dedicated to the care and welfare of thier chosen breed, they are very knowledgeable about the background of thier dogs and have put time and effort into breeding the best they can. Then along comes someone and by cross breeding undoes a life times work, more often than not just for a 'quick buck'. This is what some people are up in arms about, surely that is easy to understand.
It has been said before we are all dog lovers here, it is NOT the dogs that are in dispute.
Mary
x


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

i thought the thread was about what people are charging for crossbreeds

at the end of the day, people will pay what its worth to them...i can never understand why people will pay such stupid prices for clothes but they do.


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## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

Whilst what you say may apply to pedigree breeders it can also apply to breeders of cross breeds. The breeder I used was extremely knowledgable about cockapoos (and ASDs and labradoodles which she also breeds). She has been breeding for a number of years and she health tests all her dogs. She can tell you all of the histories of her dogs.

The fact that her dogs are cross breeds does not mean she has 'undone' anyone elses work. By joining two breeds she has managed to get the best traits of both in one dog.

By knowing her dogs well she can with a degree of certainty know how the pups are going to turn out and their physcial characteristics. I know pretty much what my puppies will look like when they are fully grown and how big they will be.

Jane


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

marlynaveve said:


> Then along comes someone and by cross breeding undoes a life times work,
> x


Or, as has been shown in some pedigree breeds, along comes a breed society, over exaggerates a feature in their self proclaimed and unregulated breed standard, tells the KC what to promulgate, the KC puts that breed standard out (even if it is severely detrimental to the dogs health) and everyone (KC breeders) has to follow it..... you then most certainly know what you are going to get... a breed of consistently unhealthy dogs.

There seems to be an assumption that the breed standards promote health... please remember how the "pedigree" started... nothing to do with health and this is trend that seems to have returned. To class Labradoodles etc as "designer dogs" is a nonsense. Genetic engineering is design and pedigrees are engineered to look the way they do.


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## butterfly (Oct 4, 2008)

Do you think if the KCS was crossed with a larger headed breed of similar looks, it may have a larger skull?
Do you think if a bulldog was crossed with something similar, but with a longer nose, they could breathe a little better?
The list could go on!
A dog is a dog is a dog, health is surely more important than what it looks like!
And as for the price, well how much would you pay for your bestfriend, My previous collie cross (Welsh/Boarder) cost 45 pounds, and gave me 12 years of unconditional love (She died of aggressive cancer!) she was my best friend, and i paid an absolute fortune in vets billstogive her the best chance, however at the end that final decision was out of pure love!
Summer (my ray of sunshine) cost 550 (As i said) and worth every penny! I amsure every dog owner on here wouldnt of paid a penny less for their friend, and looking back, probably would of paid more!
Ok so i am starting to waffle, i will bow out now, and may i just add, every dog picture i have seen on here is priceless to their owner i'm sure!x


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Or, as has been shown in some pedigree breeds, along comes a breed society, over exaggerates a feature in their self proclaimed and unregulated breed standard, tells the KC what to promulgate, the KC puts that breed standard out (even if it is severely detrimental to the dogs health) and everyone (KC breeders) has to follow it..... you then most certainly know what you are going to get... a breed of consistently unhealthy dogs.


Sounds like the trash that was on tv a few weeks back PDE


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## butterfly (Oct 4, 2008)

Is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier a cross between a bull dog and a terrier?


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

butterfly said:


> Is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier a cross between a bull dog and a terrier?


I don't think so.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

butterfly said:


> Is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier a cross between a bull dog and a terrier?


Staffordshire Bull Terriers U.K. Breed Council of G.B.and N.Ireland


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## butterfly (Oct 4, 2008)

Sophiex said:


> I don't think so.


I think it was back in the 17th century! All cross breeds start from somewhere! Pedegrees wouldnt exist without cross breeding somewhere down the line!


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## butterfly (Oct 4, 2008)

I think we posted at the same time sallyanne!x


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

butterfly said:


> I think it was back in the 17th century! All cross breeds start from somewhere! Pedegrees wouldnt exist without cross breeding somewhere down the line!


And the above quote is always used to justify crossbreeding today 

The dog world is so overpopulated now we really don't need to be breeding to excess,especially not DD's.
Another member posted this on a different thread,

AdelaideNow... Designer dog breeding disaster



Elmo the Bear said:


> There seems to be an assumption that the breed standards promote health... please remember how the "pedigree" started... nothing to do with health and this is trend that seems to have returned. To class Labradoodles etc as "designer dogs" is a nonsense. Genetic engineering is design and pedigrees are engineered to look the way they do.


As you can see it doesn't only apply to pedigree dogs,it looks like the Labradoodle has it's fair share of been consistantly unhealthy too.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

butterfly said:


> I think it was back in the 17th century! All cross breeds start from somewhere! Pedegrees wouldnt exist without cross breeding somewhere down the line!


i agree with you on this.and i've stated this before, but i think we are in a minority.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Rosikus said:


> And this is ELMO THE BEAR!!!! He's so gorgeous, I met him last weekend and he's soooooo gorgeous. And Toby looks like his miniature. The Bear is actually a Goldendoodle though.





spoodlemum said:


> I have to say both Toby and Elmo are absolutely gorgeous and if I had been having one dog I would have had a 'doodle' but as I was having two I went for the smaller option!
> 
> Jane


Sorry to say this - Elmo's coat and face is certainly cute, and he looks to be a very happy and friendly dog, but if this photo is true to life then this poor lad is going to have problems. His head is far too small for his body; his front legs look a lot shorter and weaker than his back legs and his back is sloping upwards from his shoulders. This sort of conformation will mean he is going to have joint problems - probably arthritis and certainly a lot of pain - in his shoulders and back as he gets older.

I find it really ironic that people can lambast pedigree breeders for breeding to a healthy standard, and at the same time think that breeders who produce this sort of thing are producing a healthy breed just because it is a cross.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

ok.am i wrong in saying GSD are bred with sloping backs? whats the difference?
PLEASE dont get me wrong on this, that picture i agree shows a dog that "i beleive" is going to have problems.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> ok.am i wrong in saying GSD are bred with sloping backs? whats the difference?
> PLEASE dont get me wrong on this, that picture i agree shows a dog that "i beleive" is going to have problems.


I don't think there is any difference Janice - I don't think GSDs should have sloping backs either! 

Btw, some GSDs are bred to have sloping backs - but not all. The breed standard says "slightly sloping".


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> I don't think there is any difference Janice - I don't think GSDs should have sloping backs either!


i'm SO pleased to hear that


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Sorry to say this - Elmo's coat and face is certainly cute, and he looks to be a very happy and friendly dog, but if this photo is true to life then this poor lad is going to have problems. His head is far too small for his body; his front legs look a lot shorter and weaker than his back legs and his back is sloping upwards from his shoulders. This sort of conformation will mean he is going to have joint problems - probably arthritis and certainly a lot of pain - in his shoulders and back as he gets older.
> 
> I find it really ironic that people can lambast pedigree breeders for breeding to a healthy standard, and at the same time think that breeders who produce this sort of thing are producing a healthy breed just because it is a cross.


Unfortunately there is no Breed Standard for these type of crosses. Maybe thats the way they are supposed to look lol you will never know really.
Another good point re KC Bred is Litters from bitches are restricted.
I have been watching a certain breeder of Designer crosses adverts and they are very regular indeed considering they have only 2 bitches!!!!!!
No way of finding out how many litters born from unregestered crosses


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

butterfly said:


> I think it was back in the 17th century! All cross breeds start from somewhere! Pedegrees wouldnt exist without cross breeding somewhere down the line!





JANICE199 said:


> i agree with you on this.and i've stated this before, but i think we are in a minority.


Hmmm. You are right. But doesn't it then follow on logically that the crosses of today are, in the future, going to run into the same sorts of problems as some of the pedigrees of today? So why add to a problem?


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> Unfortunately there is no Breed Standard for these type of crosses. Maybe thats the way they are supposed to look lol you will never know really.
> Another good point re KC Bred is Litters from bitches are restricted.
> I have been watching a certain breeder of Designer crosses adverts and they are very regular indeed considering they have only 2 bitches!!!!!!
> No way of finding out how many litters born from unregestered crosses


Agree,you don't know how old the bitches are when they are mated,or how often they are bred either.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

ever decreasing circles


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Hmmm. You are right. But doesn't it then follow on logically that the crosses of today are, in the future, going to run into the same sorts of problems as some of the pedigrees of today? So why add to a problem?


i see what your saying...but i do believe that "some" of todays crosses might become pedigrees in the future...whether or not it will be in our lifetime is a different matter..


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

clueless said:


> Unfortunately there is no Breed Standard for these type of crosses. Maybe thats the way they are supposed to look lol you will never know really.


lol - but sadly, if that's the way they are supposed to look, I can see no difference between producing this sort of conformation and a conformation such as a "flat face" in a peke.



clueless said:


> Another good point re KC Bred is Litters from bitches are restricted.
> I have been watching a certain breeder of Designer crosses adverts and they are very regular indeed considering they have only 2 bitches!!!!!!
> No way of finding out how many litters born from unregestered crosses


Good point there, Clueless.


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> i see what your saying...but i do believe that "some" of todays crosses might become pedigrees in the future...whether or not it will be in our lifetime is a different matter..


Which Crosses Do You Think May Become Pedigrees Later On ?

^ Completely Curious


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Sorry to say this - Elmo's coat and face is certainly cute, and he looks to be a very happy and friendly dog, but if this photo is true to life then this poor lad is going to have problems. His head is far too small for his body; his front legs look a lot shorter and weaker than his back legs and his back is sloping upwards from his shoulders. This sort of conformation will mean he is going to have joint problems - probably arthritis and certainly a lot of pain - in his shoulders and back as he gets older.
> 
> I find it really ironic that people can lambast pedigree breeders for breeding to a healthy standard, and at the same time think that breeders who produce this sort of thing are producing a healthy breed just because it is a cross.


Thank you for your expert, obviously qualified opinion. I would say you are at odds with my vet and Elmo's x-rays which show a healthy configuration. Elmo's only issue is that he had some muscle laxity because of incorrect feeding when young causing a growth spurt (pano).

"His head is far too small for his body" on the grounds of what? some concocted standard.

Edited to say ;

1. You have no idea how thick is coat is (very thick) which is why you get the impression you do regarding his head... bit of a cheap shot though.
2. I'd appreciate if you don't refer to my dog as a "thing".. or is this your impression of all dogs that aren't pedigree.

My criticism was not of your dogs, simply of the system which does not give any regulation.

I have enough worries about Elmo without your uneducated opinion based on one photo.


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## Chris1 (Oct 3, 2008)

We own a chocolate F1 miniature labradoodle who is so gentle and loving. They have the best temperaments and make wonderful family pets. Before choosing a breeder we followed up the testamonials we were given and were very pleased with them.
Our chosen breeder is committed to the improvement and development of the labradoodle breed. The genetics of her dogs are carefully investigated and she health checks for the following:
BVA Eye, Optigen prcd- PRA, Hip Scores, Elbow Scores, Heart Check, Vwd test, Thyroid Test, Penn Hip Test. 
We met both the mother and the father. My dog is not a fashion accessory and I object to the use of the designer dog label. I wear old jeans and wellingtons, covered in mud most of the time and couldn't give a fig about my image. Most of us are like this. All we care about are our dogs.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Which Crosses Do You Think May Become Pedigrees Later On ?
> 
> ^ Completely Curious


the labradoodle comes to mind...and as an owner of poodles i "personaly" would not want my mia crossed with anything other than another toy poodle


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

There's loads of Labradoodles on epupz some are as much as £1000 per puppy 

I'm definatly in the wrong breed


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## Chris1 (Oct 3, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Sorry to say this - Elmo's coat and face is certainly cute, and he looks to be a very happy and friendly dog, but if this photo is true to life then this poor lad is going to have problems. His head is far too small for his body; his front legs look a lot shorter and weaker than his back legs and his back is sloping upwards from his shoulders. This sort of conformation will mean he is going to have joint problems - probably arthritis and certainly a lot of pain - in his shoulders and back as he gets older.
> 
> I find it really ironic that people can lambast pedigree breeders for breeding to a healthy standard, and at the same time think that breeders who produce this sort of thing are producing a healthy breed just because it is a cross.


I thought this was supposed to be a friendly forum.
Elmo is not a THING but a much loved pet and the person who wrote this should be ashamed of themselves . I think an appology is in order.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

I own a cross breed too,now i have been reading this thread looks like to me there is a problem here between pedigree dogs and non pedigree dogs why?
Would i come on here having a go at your dog no so why cant we take all our dogs for what they are pets.
The main thing in owning pets is to be certain they all have great homes to live in and to be fed,watered,walked and loved.
I would sooner have a cross breed now after owning a Labradoodle.
Think you have been very unfair on Elmo yes he may have problems but who are you to judge has he judged your pets or you...or called your pet a THING
Bet the poor bloke/woman feels like cr*p now.
This forum should be used by lots of people and it does say PET FORUM not PEDIGREE FORUM so come on ....


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Colsy said:


> I own a cross breed too,now i have been reading this thread looks like to me there is a problem here between pedigree dogs and non pedigree dogs why?
> Would i come on here having a go at your dog no so why cant we take all our dogs for what they are pets.
> The main thing in owning pets is to be certain they all have great homes to live in and to be fed,watered,walked and loved.
> I would sooner have a cross breed now after owning a Labradoodle.
> ...


As has been said many times on this forum it's not the dogs which we have a problem with,it's the irresponsible breeding that goes on,this goes for pedigree dogs as well.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I thought this was supposed to be a friendly forum.
> Elmo is not a THING but a much loved pet and the person who wrote this should be ashamed of themselves . I think an appology is in order.


Personally I didnt read the post as an attack, I actually thought Spellweaver was concerned for the dogs health. She said she thought he looked like a happy friendly dog and also called him cute. She also showed her worry of him being in pain calling him a "poor lad".

I can see how it would have been misread and it can be hard when things are said negatively about your pet but I think she was more concerned about Elmo than saying it to be nasty.

Also "breed this sort of THING" I'm certain wasnt referring to Elmo individually nor Labradoodles as a specific mix. I think the word "thing" was used in reference to so-called "designer dogs".

Before anyone makes any snide comments I can assure you all that Spellweaver and I have had our arguments particularly after the Ped dogs exposed programme and it is unusual for me to back someone up so much but I just feel its a shame that this has been taken so harshly as I don't think it was intended that way.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> Personally I didnt read the post as an attack, I actually thought Spellweaver was concerned for the dogs health. She said she thought he looked like a happy friendly dog and also called him cute. She also showed her worry of him being in pain calling him a "poor lad".
> 
> I can see how it would have been misread and it can be hard when things are said negatively about your pet but I think she was more concerned about Elmo than saying it to be nasty.


That's exactly how I read it too


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

PLEASE somebody tell me what the price tag has to do with ANYTHING?
who keeps labeling these dogs as DD? people like us on this forum and the media.then STOP using these phrases.........god.am i the only one who sees this?


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Calling someone's dog a thing is ok then ?
Also i would have thought the owner of Elmo cares alot about the dog so whats the problem..
I think this forum has some very rude people on here who as i read it do not like cross breeds.
Why do you call them designer dogs alot of pedigree dogs have been designed thoughout the years.Now thats design too.
I watched the programme about the KC on tv was that all made up then about these great dogs that cannot breath and are having many health problems.
I do believe they said the cross breed dogs are far healthier.


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## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

If a breeder has carried out the required health tests, the puppies are healthy, the owners and puppies are happy, just what is the objection to so called 'designer dogs' - a name that is not appropriate in any event. Surely if it was a 'designer dog' you would know exactly what it would look like and its characteristics, more like a pedigree dog in fact.

From the comments made on here it appears that some people think that 'doodles' vary a great deal in their appearance and if that is true how can they be designer dogs - you wouldn't know what you were getting. There are variations in doodles but you do have some idea of what you are getting in the way of size and coat. There is also another guarantee you get with doodles - they are loving, family pets who love people and other dogs. As a member of several forums I have never yet come across a doodle that is aggressive. That may explain why they are used as service dogs quite a lot.

Jane


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Calling someone's dog a thing is ok then ?
> Also i would have thought the owner of Elmo cares alot about the dog so whats the problem..
> I think this forum has some very rude people on here who as i read it do not like cross breeds.
> Why do you call them designer dogs alot of pedigree dogs have been designed thoughout the years.Now thats design too.
> ...


oh dont even go there...you will be shot down..but i agree with you.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> PLEASE somebody tell me what the price tag has to do with ANYTHING?
> who keeps labeling these dogs as DD? people like us on this forum and the media.then STOP using these phrases.........god.am i the only one who sees this?


The price tag is an issue because it just seems bizarre that you can have one dog with health-checked parents from a line born and bred from the breeder for generations. You sign a contract and you are assured the breeder will have the pup back if anything was to go wrong. You have a lifetime of advice from an experienced breeder who has dedicated his life to that type of dog. For this dog you pay around £500. But for a dog that has unchecked parents, not very knowledgable/reputable breeders, the uncertainty of what would happen if you were unable to keep the pup... the price tag is double. It just confuses me


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Calling someone's dog a thing is ok then ?
> Also i would have thought the owner of Elmo cares alot about the dog so whats the problem..
> I think this forum has some very rude people on here who as i read it do not like cross breeds.
> Why do you call them designer dogs alot of pedigree dogs have been designed thoughout the years.Now thats design too.
> ...


No that was my point I dont think she was calling Elmo a thing.

I agree, give me a labradoodle anyday over a pedigree dog that cannot breathe.

I do like cross breeds, I own one


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

I am alarmed to be honest,this breed is fairly new,yet it is frightening that so many are already going through rescues.
I wonder how many Breeders who charge high prices actually donate to rescue ?


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

As for price tags its the breeder who lays down the price and if people buy them at certain prices thats up to them.
If the person does not like the price walk away go somewhere else,if they do not like the breeder walk away there's a whole world out there.
True?


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> Personally I didnt read the post as an attack, I actually thought Spellweaver was concerned for the dogs health. She said she thought he looked like a happy friendly dog and also called him cute. She also showed her worry of him being in pain calling him a "poor lad".
> 
> I can see how it would have been misread and it can be hard when things are said negatively about your pet but I think she was more concerned about Elmo than saying it to be nasty.
> 
> ...


I think the issue here is not when people say things about your dog, it's when they say things from a position of having no information, one picture and clear opinion of someone (me) as someone who has a problem with the KC.

Pedigree dogs are "designed" and the original foundation is a subject I don't really want to get into (having seen the reaction to my view already). My point was that crosses (like Elmo) have problems "by accident" whereas pedigree dogs have problems by design... the breeders and KC have the power to change the breed standards for health as opposed to appearance but choose not to.

If you feel an appropriate response is to directly attack my dog then I'm not suprised... I've tried to have this discussion before and get the same in other places.

I'm not attacking your dog, your breed, you.... so why take a shot at my dog. I have collies too, I suppose that's OK though because they have a piece of paper.. !

I know I'll have problems with Elmo (although not the stuff spellweaver was throwing around without a thought)... that's the reason we had Elmo neutered and will not breed from him..... do pedigree breeders do this when they find a dog with a problem... if that dog is a show winner ?


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Someone has already posted this link

Responsible & dedicated breeders of designer dogs - Info about dd's

but this is a puppy farm who are more than happy to market off the back of the "designer dog" term...


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Can you really know what coat they get though? I thought you couldn't because it can be hypoallergenic or they might not be - labs aren't but poodles are.



spoodlemum said:


> There are variations in doodles but you do have some idea of what you are getting in the way of size and coat.


By the way, I'm not anti-crossbreed. (I am totally anti some of the stupid names though. )


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## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> The price tag is an issue because it just seems bizarre that you can have one dog with health-checked parents from a line born and bred from the breeder for generations. You sign a contract and you are assured the breeder will have the pup back if anything was to go wrong. You have a lifetime of advice from an experienced breeder who has dedicated his life to that type of dog. For this dog you pay around £500. But for a dog that has unchecked parents, not very knowledgable/reputable breeders, the uncertainty of what would happen if you were unable to keep the pup... the price tag is double. It just confuses me


So the fact that my puppies came from health checked parents, from a line known by the breeder for generations, I signed a contract and the breeder would have had my puppies back if there was a problem, the breeder is still in contact with me (my puppies are 5 months old now) to check things are going okay and she has bred 'doodles' for many years means I have had the same level of expertise and support from her as from a pedigree breeder.

I am sure there are bad breeders of doodles - but I am just as sure there are bad breeders of every other breed in the world! Criticising people for their choice of dog is not nice, especially if what you are really criticising is bad breeders.

Jane


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Spoodle, what xbreeds do you have? Just curious.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

There are many breeds in rescues and many of the breed that some of you all own too.
So please do not just judge labradoodles thats a little wrong.
Yes i give to an animal rescue and not a big one a smaller one who needs all the help they can get.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I know I'll have problems with Elmo (although not the stuff spellweaver was throwing around without a thought)... that's the reason we had Elmo neutered and will not breed from him..... do pedigree breeders do this when they find a dog with a problem... if that dog is a show winner ?


I also think its terrible that a dog with health probs can go on to produce many litters because it is a show champ.

If it is done responsibly with health tests I cant see too much of a problem with crossing breeds. I just dont like the fact that the high prices are encouraging inexperienced breeders to produce these type of litters in order to make a quick buck.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I think the issue here is not when people say things about your dog, it's when they say things from a position of having no information, one picture and clear opinion of someone (me) as someone who has a problem with the KC.


Many owners of KC Reg have a problem with the KC.



Elmo the Bear said:


> Pedigree dogs are "designed" and the original foundation is a subject I don't really want to get into (having seen the reaction to my view already). My point was that crosses (like Elmo) have problems "by accident" whereas pedigree dogs have problems by design...


Totally disagree,if your breeding breeds that have known health conditions yo WILL be breeding in problems that established breeders have tried for many years to breed out,this is no accident,Genetics don't work in that way.



Elmo the Bear said:


> I know I'll have problems with Elmo (although not the stuff spellweaver was throwing around without a thought)... that's the reason we had Elmo neutered and will not breed from him..... do pedigree breeders do this when they find a dog with a problem... if that dog is a show winner ?


Sorry to hear your going to have problems and in answer to your question,yes good ethical breeders will not breed from dogs with known problems,you can still show them.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Sorry but the same can happen with Pedigree dogs too,that is a fact you know.


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## Chris1 (Oct 3, 2008)

Yes it sadly seems to be enjoyable to knock the doodle here. Any little bit of jucy doodle gossip is posted here for people to enjoy.RE/Nesapaper ad.
Fact Labradoodles.Goldendoodles,Spoodles are hereto stay, are our dogs, and we love them.
We shouldn't have to defend them on a dog loving website.
How much someone pays for a dog is up to that person, no one else ,so don't concern yourself with it.
Labradoodles have been bred for many years now. They are no longer designer dogs and many are used as help or therapy dogs.
I also noticed an earlier thread on here poking fun of them, and that was going round and round over the same old rubbish and is now locked.
When someone introduces themselves as new with a 'doodle please just wellcome them and dont make negative comments.
To those of you who have done just this remember how hasty words hurt.
And all dogs come from wolves.


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## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

My puppies are cocker spaniel/poodle crosses and just so you can see what they look like :-










Jane


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

spoodlemum said:


> So the fact that my puppies came from health checked parents, from a line known by the breeder for generations, I signed a contract and the breeder would have had my puppies back if there was a problem, the breeder is still in contact with me (my puppies are 5 months old now) to check things are going okay and she has bred 'doodles' for many years means I have had the same level of expertise and support from her as from a pedigree breeder.
> 
> I am sure there are bad breeders of doodles - but I am just as sure there are bad breeders of every other breed in the world! Criticising people for their choice of dog is not nice, especially if what you are really criticising is bad breeders.
> 
> Jane


When have I criticised people for their choice of dog?

I'm sure there are loads of great Labradoodle (forgive me for using this breed again, take it representatively) breeders out there which is brilliant  but I was just commenting on the price aspect.

Yes there are bad pedigree breeders out there. I just dont understand the differences in prices x


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Sorry but the same can happen with Pedigree dogs too,that is a fact you know.


I Dont Understand Your Post - What Can Happen With Pedigree Dogs Too ? 

Did You Mean Health Problems ? - If So Then I Think We All Know ..


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I thought this was supposed to be a friendly forum.
> Elmo is not a THING but a much loved pet and the person who wrote this should be ashamed of themselves . I think an appology is in order.


This is a friendly forum but if you can't accept other peoples opinions then you are in the wrong place. I very much doubt an apology will be issued as Spellweaver has done nothing wrong other than give her helpful opinion.



JANICE199 said:


> oh dont even go there...you will be shot down..but i agree with you.


You can agree all you want Janice but I know Spellweaver personally as she is the breeder of my pedigree Border Collie. She has owned numerous crossbreeds in the past and she has never looked down her nose at my two crossbreeds, she is not that sort of person. She is a VERY knowledgable person, owned dogs for many years and has the best interests of every dog at heart, whether that be pedigree or mongrel.

Yes it's a pet forum and not a pedigree forum but anyone that defends puppy farmers and unethical breeders does not have our pets interests at heart. Look at the state of our dog population and tell me how it is acceptable for people to breed indiscriminantly, not health test, breed from pets for no good reason and churn out litter after litter. Fair enough some people do not know the facts and ignorance can perhaps be forgiven but there is no excuse to defend these things when you do know the facts.

There is no need to get defensive when people highlight the problems of pedigrees or mongrels, no one with an ounce of sense will deny there are problems on both sides. It is entirely possible to discuss these matters without it turning into an arguement; it would help if people read things in the context they are meant and stop reading more into posts than is actually there.


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Totally disagree,if your breeding breeds that have known health conditions yo WILL be breeding in problems that established breeders have tried for many years to breed out,this is no accident,Genetics don't work in that way.


Does this mean a cavalier x bichon frise could suffer from syringomellia (sp?) and something bichons may genetically suffer from (know nothing about this breed)?


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## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

Colsy said:


> I do believe they said the cross breed dogs are far healthier.


Healthier than what, thier pedigree parents?
You cant have it both ways, if pedigrees are so unhealthy how can the puppies resulting from crossing two together be healthy, your argument doesn't make sense
Mary
x


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

spoodlemum said:


> My puppies are cocker spaniel/poodle crosses and just so you can see what they look like :-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aww! Are they littermates?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Yes it sadly seems to be enjoyable to knock the doodle here. Any little bit of jucy doodle gossip is posted here for people to enjoy.RE/Nesapaper ad.
> Fact Labradoodles.Goldendoodles,Spoodles are hereto stay, are our dogs, and we love them.
> We shouldn't have to defend them on a dog loving website.
> How much someone pays for a dog is up to that person, no one else ,so don't concern yourself with it.
> ...


No one enjoys knocking anything But it seems someof you new members enjoy coming from another forum to cause war LOL


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Hi Jane  Are They Litter Mates ?


Hehe I asked that too.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

at the end of the day its all in the hands of buyers!


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

I did think something strange was going on,with the recent influx of Labradoodle owners,I think this explains it,
View topic - Very Cross - Labradoodle Discussion Forum
Last post on the thread,
My Husband has just put a pic of Elmo on that other horrible forum well yesterday. 
They have come back and said look the way he stands his head is fat too small for his body and then called him a thing 
Anyone got any fab answers its now turning into doodle war,oh yes they hate cross breeds. 
Its called Pet Forum i told them it should be called Pedigree Forum. 
Sorry i am soooo mad but in a nice way well sort of. 
Take care 
Caroline

If it's such a horrible forum why continue to post here ????


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Natik said:


> at the end of the day its all in the hands of buyers!


Yes but the more people buy, the more people will breed.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Yes the health aspect sorry did not explain my self very well.
Eating dinner typing is a no no


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Sophiex said:


> Hehe I asked that too.


Shhh Hehe I Deleted My Post So I Diddnt Look Stoopid 

You Hit Submit Reply Button Faster Than Me


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Shhh Hehe I Deleted My Post So I Diddnt Look Stoopid
> 
> You Hit Submit Reply Button Faster Than Me


Now it'll look like I'm talking to myself about invisible posts.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I did think something strange was going on,with the recent influx of Labradoodle owners,I think this explains it,
> View topic - Very Cross - Labradoodle Discussion Forum
> Last post on the thread,
> My Husband has just put a pic of Elmo on that other horrible forum well yesterday.
> ...


 how childish.

I don't own a pedigree and I love it here


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Sophiex said:


> Now it'll look like I'm talking to myself about invisible posts.


lol Sorry !!


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> lol Sorry !!


That's ok. I often talk to myself. I make interesting conversation.


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Glad you joined our forum but have i said any of your dogs are bad or called them a thing no has he..????
I will not be posting here again,i do think this forum should be moderated too.
Ours is and would not do this to new members very sad.
So hope other new members on here do not have such a hard time.
Bet otherwise this forum is good.
Was going to post lots about all my pets but will not now.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

lol what do you all do on this other forum exactly, sit around and agree about everything.

Well we like a good old debate on here. We respect each others differing opinions and if things get heated they are soon resolved. I like to think even Ros and Cav are friends underneath it all lol !!

Ciao...


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I did think something strange was going on,with the recent influx of Labradoodle owners,I think this explains it,
> View topic - Very Cross - Labradoodle Discussion Forum
> Last post on the thread,
> My Husband has just put a pic of Elmo on that other horrible forum well yesterday.
> ...


Also how the member who suggested they come here is now not contibuting to this thread!!!!!!!!


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## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

Sorry it took so long to answer, yes my puppies are littermates.

Jane


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

they are little cuties, how old?


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Thank you for your expert, obviously qualified opinion. I would say you are at odds with my vet and Elmo's x-rays which show a healthy configuration. Elmo's only issue is that he had some muscle laxity because of incorrect feeding when young causing a growth spurt (pano).
> 
> "His head is far too small for his body" on the grounds of what? some concocted standard.
> 
> ...


Elmo, I did not refer to your dog as a thing. If you read my post correctly, I was referring to the breeders and buyers thinking this sort of conformation was fine - ie this was the "thing" I was referring to. I actually spoke about your dog with love and compassion - I praised the things about him that looked good - ie his looks and his coat, and I sympathised and felt badly about the future he was facing _if this photo is accurate_. I would never refer to any animal as a "thing".

Trying to make this into a pedigree versus non-pedigree reply does neither you nor your breed any good whatsoever. Neither do snidey remarks about my "uneducated" opinion. I love all dogs, pedigree and non-pedigree, and have owned both. Furthermore, as a dog owner, breeder and exhibitor of many years, I actually do have a lot of experience in conformation. And I did say that my opinion was based on this one photo, in fact my very words were "*if this photo is accurate*." I stand by what I said - *if this photo is accurate* - your dog will face problems in later life.

Thank you, Tashi, for re-opening this thread so that I could reply to the people who obviously have some ulterior motive in deliberately misreading my words. I think it is dreadful that some people can misuse things like this to attack a whole forum. Thank you also to the people who know me and who stuck up for me.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

For all you labradoodle and doodle owners you are most welcome here, the forum is moderated, but we have a lot more members than your labradoodle forum and the last few days we have been kept on our toes by spammers so havent had much time to keep an eye on threads, we also allow our members freedom of speech and only jump in when we believe the thread is getting personal or just going around in circles.

As for Toby I cannot find anywhere where the members have given her a hard time about the dog

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-photo-galleries/15814-toby-14-weeks.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/14614-toby-does-down.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/14266-my-puppy-having-hyper-time.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/13793-toby-againnnn.html


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Look, I'm getting a little lost on this sympathy bit here and as a "newbie" I guess I should have expected group mentality here... I would expect the same to happen on any forum.

I questioned the validity of the KC... read back, that's what I said. I did not say "look at my dog, he is a perfect example". I know his problems, my vet told me but what has that got to do with 

a. The origin of this thread which was about cost and 

b. the point I made about the KC certificate from a breeder amounting to nothing and being just a piece of paper.


I moderate a forum myself... if someone came on and said:

"I don't agree with the breeding of labradoodles" my response would not be "yes but just look at your dogs ears, they must drag on the ground and become sore".. firstly because I am not an expert on dog breeds and secondly because that isn't the subject matter.

I worry every minute of the day about Elmo (that's the name of my dog by the way, not me, my name's Rob).. he has muscle laxity due to a poor feeding before we got him. He grew too quick and suffers still from pano. He's big lad 27" and about 75 pounds without an inch of fat. So I worry and I'll look after him but what I don't need is another amateur vet porring more concern on my plate. He has the best exercise regime (on professional advice) including hydro and has a strict diet and supplements. He's only 10 months and we have stabilised his growth. We will care for him to the extreme so he will always have the best.. he may be a "poor lad" but he'll want for nothing in terms of care.

I've had dogs for years as well. I can't remember a time when we didn't have collie in the house but that doesn't make me an expert.

Now, if you all want to pile in and give me a pasting on the KC thing then great, I'm always up for a difference of opinion (and to answer someone's earlier post, no we don't all sit around and agree on our forum but we also don't personally criticize someone's dog if that person has a different opinion to us) , if you just want to pick on Elmo or me then I'll clear off (which should make you happy anyway).....


Edited - Sorry, couple of other points.

1. Snidey remarks? I'm sorry for those but I was a little taken aback by the direct attack.
2. If this isn't a KC vs non-KC argument then I'm sorry again but was it really necessary to stick the knife in about Elmo ?


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Look, I'm getting a little lost on this sympathy bit here and as a "newbie" I guess I should have expected group mentality here... I would expect the same to happen on any forum.
> 
> I questioned the validity of the KC... read back, that's what I said. I did not say "look at my dog, he is a perfect example". I know his problems, my vet told me but what has that got to do with a. The origin of this thread which was about cost and b. the point I made about the KC certificate from a breeder amounting to nothing and being just a piece of paper.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that Elmo isn't 100% fit and healthy. Hopefully things will improve soon 

As far as the KC issue goes, we had a thread open that had about 150 pages open surrounding it - many agree with you, many don't. Trust me its not one sided!

Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your time here


----------



## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Also I believe your partner claimed we all hate crossbreeds on here - I can assure you this is not the case. I own a mongrel and everyone comments on how lovely he is


----------



## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> we also don't personally criticize someone's dog if that person has a different opinion to us) , if you just want to pick on Elmo or me then I'll clear off (which should make you happy anyway).....


Please would you read posts properly before over-reacting to them? For the last time, I did not criticise your dog. Nor am I picking on Elmo or you. I was actually warning you and sympathising with you on the poor prognosis for his future based on the conformation shown in the photograph. If I criticised anyone, I criticised the breeder.

Btw, none of this has anything to do with your opnions on pedigree dogs or the Kennel Club, so stop trying to link the two together.


----------



## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Please would you read posts properly before over-reacting to them? For the last time, I did not criticise your dog. Nor am I picking on Elmo or you. I was actually warning you and sympathising with you on the poor prognosis for his future based on the conformation shown in the photograph. If I criticised anyone, I criticised the breeder.
> 
> Btw, none of this has anything to do with your opnions on pedigree dogs or the Kennel Club, so stop trying to link the two together.


You're right it has nothing to do with the issue on KC, but that was the issue I was talking about... I did not ask for your "prognosis" on my dog.. I have a professional prognosis thank you.

I also now have a few more grey hairs and something else to worry myself sick about and spend hours researching and questioning my vet about..


----------



## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> You're right it has nothing to do with the issue on KC, but that was the issue I was talking about... I did not ask for your "prognosis" on my dog.. I have a professional prognosis thank you.
> 
> I also now have a few more grey hairs and something else to worry myself sick about and spend hours researching and questioning my vet about..


Spellweaver was just trying to help ? she also said that she may be wronge as its just from that one photo ..

I dont understand where the problem is .. she tried to help ? and she also said that she is sorry about Elmo being ill


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> Spellweaver was just trying to help ? she also said that she may be wronge as its just from that one photo ..
> 
> I dont understand where the problem is .. she tried to help ? and she also said that she is sorry about Elmo being ill


And I'm thankful for sympathy but spellweaver is sympathising with me over a condition they themselves just diagnosed which I am now going to spend many a sleepless night trying to research and another week in the vets grilling him as to why he never mentioned this during examinations and x-rays.

So I enter into what was a discussion about the cost of a labradoodle and end up with another pile of c.... stuff to worry about.


----------



## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

I think some good will come of Spellweaver's post. If you do question your vet like you say either he may be able to recommend how to prevent the problems before they happen (rather than just going along unnoticed). Otherwise he will contradict Spellweaver's thoughts from that one photo - leaving you feeling assured that Elmo is just how he should be


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> I just dont like the fact that the high prices are encouraging inexperienced breeders to produce these type of litters in order to make a quick buck.


Good post Louise - I think you've hit the nail on the head. This is what worries everyone about designer crosses - inexperienced breeders producing crosses from non-health tested parents, then breeding and re-breeding from the progeny. If this happens - and it has already begun - then 10 years or so down the line there will be thousands more animals with severe health problems.


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> I think some good will come of Spellweaver's post. If you do question your vet like you say either he may be able to recommend how to prevent the problems before they happen (rather than just going along unnoticed). Otherwise he will contradict Spellweaver's thoughts from that one photo - leaving you feeling assured that Elmo is just how he should be


^ what Louise said ^

and also Im very sorry about Elmo being ill *send cuddles to him*

x


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Good post Louise - I think you've hit the nail on the head. This is what worries everyone about designer crosses - inexperienced breeders producing crosses from non-health tested parents, then breeding and re-breeding from the progeny. If this happens - and it has already begun - then 10 years or so down the line there will be thousands more animals with severe health problems.


I agree,another thing to consider is you don't know if these dogs are related as usually you nothing to say otherwise,you could be doing a father to daughter,sister to brother mating,so you could be doubling up on problems and producing some very ill dogs,take what's currently happening with the NI for example.It's very very frightening thinking about what could happen to these dogs.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> You're right it has nothing to do with the issue on KC, but that was the issue I was talking about... I did not ask for your "prognosis" on my dog.. I have a professional prognosis thank you.
> 
> I also now have a few more grey hairs and something else to worry myself sick about and spend hours researching and questioning my vet about..


If I posted a photo of my dog and someone responded to it the way I responded to your photograph I would do one of two things.

If I thought that the poster was wrong, I would post a better photo and say something like "Look, here is a better photo - can you see now that you were wrong?"

If I thought the poster was right, yes I would be worried about my dog, and would be asking vet and breeder if the poster was right - but I would also be very thankful that someone had alerted me to what might be a problem.

I am sorry that you are now more worried about your dog. But is it better to be worried and get it sorted out, than to be uninformed until hit with something unexpected in the future?


----------



## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Sorry you feel that way, I will miss you and Toby


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

what Rosikus's post has gone?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Have taken it off dont feel that it was fair to the members who have been really supportive of her and Toby she goes to another forum tells them the members on here have been horrible to her about Toby when they have all oohhed and ahhhed over him and then comes back and creates more mayhem accusing us of never moderating, when I have moderated some of her posts she has also complained about that she cant have it both ways


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Also how can you judge a dog by one photo ..
Sorry some people stand funny on pic's i know i do sometimes.
Now Elmo is the most loving and sweet natured dog going and if you all knew him you would melt.
I have not said a bad word about your dogs or attack their breed have i ?
So come on give it a rest we all love our dogs dont we.
Elmo is very special and always will be.
I did get cross i must admit because if you read back on many threads it does look like some are attacking cross breeds.
This forum does sway to pedigree dogs which i have not got a problem with but do not say things about cross breeds either fair.
Now why dont you just say you hate them instead of calling them names much more honest.
Also it is not our fault breeders charge so much money for dogs
Now please give Elmo a chance.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

do u guys actually agree with crossbreeds when the breeder has all the needed health tests done before mating?

Also there are alot of pedigree breeders breeding without testing too to make some quick bugs. 

I heard about pedigree breeders going once a year on a luxury holiday from the money they made from breeding their dogs.  Al kc registered. 
(yes, I know, responsible breeders do not make hardly any money by breeding)


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

It seems that these cross breeds (mongrols in my day) are making more money then pedigree dogs !!


why are people falling for this?
regards
sue


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Also how can you judge a dog by one photo ..
> Sorry some people stand funny on pic's i know i do sometimes.
> Now Elmo is the most loving and sweet natured dog going and if you all knew him you would melt.
> I have not said a bad word about your dogs or attack their breed have i ?
> ...


I never pretended that I was doing anything other than going by one photograph - and I also said "_if this photo is accurate_". I have also praised his face, his coat and his character. I have not called him names and I do not hate crossbreeds. Clear enough for you? Now please stop trying to stir things.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Colsy said:


> Also how can you judge a dog by one photo ..
> Sorry some people stand funny on pic's i know i do sometimes.
> Now Elmo is the most loving and sweet natured dog going and if you all knew him you would melt.
> I have not said a bad word about your dogs or attack their breed have i ?
> ...


Ah why dont u give it a rest and stop posting if all you're doing is moaning. Its getting really boring now, I'm the proud owner of a cross breed and I have been on here for ages and had no problems whatsoever. As for the bit in bold  for goodnesssake, a huge majority of us on here own crossbreeds and so I doubt we hate them?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

I for one dont have any problem with people breeding these so called designer dogs if they have full health testing relevant to the breeds concerned, but I do think they charge far too much for them but it is each to their own.

I have a HUGE problem with people breeding from pedigrees and not health testing, we health test all ours and if there is a problem they are neutered even when we have done really well with them in the show ring, but not everybody thinks the same way.

And no we dont ever make money from the pups we breed or if we do it is very little.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Natik said:


> do u guys actually agree with crossbreeds when the breeder has all the needed health tests done before mating?


If there hell bent on breeding anyway and it's done properly,i.e health testing puppies sold under contract etc,breeder will take them back if required etc, I don't see a major problem,



Natik said:


> Also there are alot of pedigree breeders breeding without testing too to make some quick bugs.


Totally agree with you.



Natik said:


> I heard about pedigree breeders going once a year on a luxury holiday from the money they made from breeding their dogs.  Al kc registered.


It's not unheard off,I need some tips off them,one of our litters cost us a small fortune.



Natik said:


> (yes, I know, responsible breeders do not make hardly any money by breeding)


Your correct if breeding is done correctly and responsibly breeders are lucky to break even.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Not against cross breeds / mongrols or any dog - I love em all - just against the breeders that try and make money out of em!!!
love
Sue
xxxx


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Natik said:


> do u guys actually agree with crossbreeds when the breeder has all the needed health tests done before mating?
> 
> Also there are alot of pedigree breeders breeding without testing too to make some quick bugs.
> 
> ...


thats wat most members on this forum have tryed *and i will say tryed* putting over to people who breed crossbreed dogs on here or bought crossbred dogs...they are only trying to educate them, not have a go, which is wat most of them have thort members on this forum was doing....they wasnt.

and also members of this forum have also said the same to pedigree owners who have bred there dog wiv no health test etc....theve not just singled out the crossbreed owners.

and now we have one member who runs to another forum making this one look like its singled out the crossbreeds....and now them other forum members are joining here to argue...pathetic....bloody pathetic.

ps...Agree wiv the above from doubetrouble.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

tashi...that was a good answer, thank u 

I believe they charge so much because people are silly and pay the amount  and I think its the uniqueness which makes the dog "special". As every dog turns out different.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

(tentatively)

I agree with the health testing issue but if it is so crucial, why do the KC not make it mandatory for pedigrees?


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> (tentatively)
> 
> I agree with the health testing issue but if it is so crucial, why do the KC not make it mandatory for pedigrees?


I can't answer that but I can assure you many owners including myself would like it to be made compulsary before allowing a litter to be registered.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Elmo the Bear said:


> (tentatively)
> 
> I agree with the health testing issue but if it is so crucial, why do the KC not make it mandatory for pedigrees?


Basically because of the money aspect, BUT if new owners refused to buy from the likes of breeders who do not health test then eventually those breeders would either HAVE to health test or 'go under' sink or swim mentality really


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

Elmo the Bear said:


> (tentatively)
> 
> I agree with the health testing issue but if it is so crucial, why do the KC not make it mandatory for pedigrees?


*As i am sure people would totaly agree with this question thats down to people to ask the KC and mabe put this question to them for them to consider  i dont see the point to people getting at each others throats and being personal on the forum *


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

tashi said:


> Basically because of the money aspect, BUT if new owners refused to buy from the likes of breeders who do not health test then eventually those breeders would either HAVE to health test or 'go under' sink or swim mentality really


There is some serious educating needing to be done.

I wasnt aware of any health tests before joining this forum.

I for one like to read threads like this because I'm learning loads about different breeds and the health tests required.

I dont understand why some people refuse to listen to this advice from some very decent breeders who clearly love all dogs?


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

bee112 said:


> There is some serious educating needing to be done.
> 
> I wasnt aware of any health tests before joining this forum.
> 
> ...


same as bee... i've learnt so much on this forum its unreal, and im still learning 

glad i joined...i've met some decent knowledgable people on here


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> same as bee... i've learnt so much on this forum its unreal, and im still learning
> 
> glad i joined...i've met some decent knowledgable people on here


yeh definately.. we are planning on getting a dog next year and coming on here has helped me loads, this is why it gets on my **** when people start slagging the forum off!


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

bee112 said:


> yeh definately.. we are planning on getting a dog next year and coming on here has helped me loads, this is why it gets on my **** when people start slagging the forum off!


not only do they slag it off, they go recruiting from other forums after recieving weeks of helpful advice!! grr!


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> not only do they slag it off, they go recruiting troublemakers from other forums after recieving weeks of helpful advice!! grr!


I know! the cheek!


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

rottiesloveragdolls said:


> *As i am sure people would totaly agree with this question thats down to people to ask the KC and mabe put this question to them for them to consider  i dont see the point to people getting at each others throats and being personal on the forum *


I was told earlier in the thread that the breeders / breed clubs set the standard, not the KC. So all they need to do is change the breed standard to state "must have x,y and z health checks" and the situation is resolved.

Then, when objectionable people like me ask "why should I but a pedigree dog and not a health tested corss breed", the breeder can say "because we guarantee health testing, it's set in our breed standard and regulated by the KC".

This could obviously raise the cost of breeding (moving those who are just looking for a quick buck out of the breeder market) make the dogs more expensive, meaning only those really committed to dog ownership would buy.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> (tentatively)
> 
> I agree with the health testing issue but if it is so crucial, why do the KC not make it mandatory for pedigrees?


The Kennel Club's stance goes something like this:

They have no legislative powers over breeders at all. All they can do is recommend. Responsible breeders are already health testing before they breed. Irresponsible breeders do not health test, but if they want to register their progeny with the KC then at least the KC can regulate to some degree - eg the number of litters they can register for each bitch, the age of the bitch etc etc. If they made it mandatory, then the responsible breeders would still health test, but the irresponsible breeders who have no intention of doing it simply would not register litters with the Kennel Club. So even the small degree of control the KC has over these irresponsible breeders would be lost.


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

AHEM - Guys they are watching us .. and slagging us off even more on there forum  

'The moderator on that so called forum is now calling crossbreeds designer dogs says alot for the forum. 
Well i have just bought my matching handbag' quoted from doodledash


---
why must people do that though .. its really childish ..


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I was told earlier in the thread that the breeders / breed clubs set the standard, not the KC. So all they need to do is change the breed standard to state "must have x,y and z health checks" and the situation is resolved.
> 
> Then, when objectionable people like me ask "why should I but a pedigree dog and not a health tested corss breed", the breeder can say "because we guarantee health testing, it's set in our breed standard and regulated by the KC".
> 
> This could obviously raise the cost of breeding (moving those who are just looking for a quick buck out of the breeder market) make the dogs more expensive, meaning only those really committed to dog ownership would buy.


This is something that is not possible unfortunately a breed standard is just that the standard of the breed, however, most breed clubs have it written in their code of ethics which is why we advise people to go through a breed club when looking for a pedigree pup, but not everybody will wait for a healthy pup if there is one advertised in the paper they think it will be ok and of course sometimes they are also cheaper (at the outset) from the byb or puppy farms, only to cost them a small fortune in vets bills at a later date


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

ha ha Jasper you make me laugh.. where is this forum?!


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

bee112 said:


> yeh definately.. we are planning on getting a dog next year and coming on here has helped me loads, this is why it gets on my **** when people start slagging the forum off!


exactly bee, well we know there are decent helpfull members on here.  no matter wat the problem, there is always someone to help ya here...its brilliant.


louise5031 said:


> not only do they slag it off, they go recruiting from other forums after recieving weeks of helpful advice!! grr!


Thats wat got me...there honestly wasnt no need for that wat so ever...so many people helped that member and thats the way they repayed them..charming 

rather then take in the info that members was given and learn from it, they decided to chuck it back in the forums faces.

anyways...lets move on


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

bee112 said:


> ha ha Jasper you make me laugh.. where is this forum?!


View topic - Very Cross - Labradoodle Discussion Forum

It wasnt hard to find with my mad computer skills


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## Rach (Sep 4, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I was told earlier in the thread that the breeders / breed clubs set the standard, not the KC. So all they need to do is change the breed standard to state "must have x,y and z health checks" and the situation is resolved.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

OK this is the so called moderator I do not know what you would like them to be called would you rather designer dogs which is how one site called them or would you rather crossbreeds 

I do not have a problem with your dogs can you not get that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

JasperCarrot said:


> AHEM - Guys they are watching us .. and slagging us off even more on there forum
> 
> 'The moderator on that so called forum is now calling crossbreeds designer dogs says alot for the forum.
> Well i have just bought my matching handbag' quoted from doodledash
> ...


*and they have the cheek to come on here moaning *


----------



## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> AHEM - Guys they are watching us .. and slagging us off even more on there forum
> 
> 'The moderator on that so called forum is now calling crossbreeds designer dogs says alot for the forum.
> Well i have just bought my matching handbag' quoted from doodledash
> ...


pmsl jasper...u amaze me daily haha.

u are offically our lil spy lol.


----------



## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

rottiesloveragdolls said:


> *and they have the cheek to come on here moaning *


And expect to be taken seriously


----------



## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Colsy said:


> This forum does sway to pedigree dogs which i have not got a problem with but do not say things about cross breeds either fair.


The forum does not sway towards pedigree dogs at all, when I joined here I only had a crossbreed, I was made to feel more than welcome and was never once judged for owning a crossbreed.



Natik said:


> do u guys actually agree with crossbreeds when the breeder has all the needed health tests done before mating?


I do, apart from the lack of guarenteed parentage I don't see any problem with breeding crosses. There are some good reasons to do so such as producing superior therapy, working or agility dogs.



Natik said:


> Also there are alot of pedigree breeders breeding without testing too to make some quick bugs.


Quick bugs?  I think this is on the same level as breeding cross breeds without testing, it makes no difference whether they are breeding pedigrees or crosses, if the technology to minimise the risk is there, why not use it, simple answer is they don't want to spend the money.



Elmo the Bear said:


> I agree with the health testing issue but if it is so crucial, why do the KC not make it mandatory for pedigrees?


It might be a good idea to read some old threads before assuming the general view on the Kennel Club, you will see that very few people actually think the Kennel Club are holding the right stance regards health testing.


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## spoodlemum (Oct 3, 2008)

marlynaveve said:


> I know this will probably 'add fuel to the fire' but just couldn't ignore it. This ad. was in yeasterdays Western Daily Press.
> 
> Unique F1 Labradoodle
> Black male puppy
> ...


Can I just refer back to the first post. How does Mary know :

a. How much experience the breeder of the labradoodle has?
b. The parentage of the doodle - it could also be from winning stock.
c. The pup could have a very good background and all health checks.

The fact that she assumes anyone who buys it would be 'gullible' implies she does not have a high opinion of doodle owners.

It is this sort of post that gives the impression people on this forum do not like cross breed owners and it might go some way to explaining why the doodle owners have become somewhat defensive. How would you feel if I said all poodle/beagle/whatever owners are gullible?

I don't mean this as any disrespect to Mary and she may be right, it may be a bad breeder but the sweeping assumptions made about cross breed breeders and the willingness of their owners to pay for them does make us all feel a bit 'picked on'.

Jane


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> pmsl jasper...u amaze me daily haha.
> 
> u are offically our lil spy lol.


im honored


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

tashi said:


> OK this is the so called moderator I do not know what you would like them to be called would you rather designer dogs which is how one site called them or would you rather crossbreeds
> 
> I do not have a problem with your dogs can you not get that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL @ so called moderator!


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

tashi said:


> Basically because of the money aspect, BUT if new owners refused to buy from the likes of breeders who do not health test then eventually those breeders would either HAVE to health test or 'go under' sink or swim mentality really


ur absolutely right there.

But then buyers need to be educated about the existing health issues as I'm sure so many probably don't even know the health issues exist and should be tested. 
And so many believe because the dog is kc registered then everything is ok!

That's the main issue imo


----------



## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> View topic - Very Cross - Labradoodle Discussion Forum
> 
> It wasnt hard to find with my mad computer skills


ha ha when one of them was talking about us they have put a little devil face on their post lol!


----------



## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

I was told earlier in this thread that breed clubs set the standard... why can they not make compulsory health testing part of their breed standard... then the KC have no option but to comply? Or is it really the KC setting the standard?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I was told earlier in this thread that breed clubs set the standard... why can they not make compulsory health testing part of their breed standard... then the KC have no option but to comply? Or is it really the KC setting the standard?


because as I said previously the breed standard is actually the make up of the dog not anything about breeding and no the KC do not set the standard


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## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

bee112 said:


> ha ha when one of them was talking about us they have put a little devil face on their post lol!


^ lol its just the way you said that !!

aww my belly hurts from laughing now


----------



## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> The Kennel Club's stance goes something like this:
> 
> They have no legislative powers over breeders at all. All they can do is recommend. Responsible breeders are already health testing before they breed. Irresponsible breeders do not health test, but if they want to register their progeny with the KC then at least the KC can regulate to some degree - eg the number of litters they can register for each bitch, the age of the bitch etc etc. If they made it mandatory, then the responsible breeders would still health test, but the irresponsible breeders who have no intention of doing it simply would not register litters with the Kennel Club. So even the small degree of control the KC has over these irresponsible breeders would be lost.


But then so many people would be put off buying a pup without the kc registration! That would kinda worsen the situation for the bad breeders.


----------



## JasperCarrot (Apr 22, 2008)

you can also read Rosikus's post on there ( which was removed of here ) it upset me though becasue I thought we were friends .. obviously not then ..


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

So who decides on compulsory health testing ? Not the breed clubs, not the KC so both simply look after the asthetics and the health is discretionary ?


----------



## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

spoodlemum said:


> Can I just refer back to the first post. How does Mary know :
> 
> a. How much experience the breeder of the labradoodle has?
> b. The parentage of the doodle - it could also be from winning stock.
> ...


Why would a good reptuable breeder need to advertise,been responsible is ensuring you have a waiting list and homes lined up BEFORE any puppies are born.
It seems the ad is as short as possible,possibly to avoid paying extra costs.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Elmo the Bear said:


> So who decides on compulsory health testing ? Not the breed clubs, not the KC so both simply look after the asthetics and the health is discretionary ?


the BVA who then inform the breed clubs and the kc of the necessary health testing for each and every breed


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Outstanding... so we can lobby the BVA to recommend compulsory health testing? They're bound to be in favour are they not?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Outstanding... so we can lobby the BVA to recommend compulsory health testing? They're bound to be in favour are they not?


I wouldnt really know


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Right well I am now throwing my 'Designer Handbag' and am closing this thread it has gone way off topic and is getting nowhere apart from the forum and myself being slagged off on the other forum, by one of their so called senior members.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

JasperCarrot said:


> you can also read Rosikus's post on there ( which was removed of here ) it upset me though becasue I thought we were friends .. obviously not then ..


Yes just read it.. that forum has made me chuckle to be fair.. some very angry people on there!!


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

tashi said:


> Right well I am now throwing my 'Designer Handbag' and am closing this thread it has gone way off topic and is getting nowhere apart from the forum and myself being slagged off on the other forum, by one of their so called senior members.


That's okay, I've joined the Labradoodle forum so I can continue over there!


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

The AHT also send results on to the KC.
I asked them to change my bitches certificate to add on her results,they checked their database and with the AHT before it was changed.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

bee112 said:


> Yes just read it.. that forum has made me chuckle to be fair.. some very angry people on there!!


lol i know its like lighten up


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

tashi said:


> I wouldnt really know


So are we not in favour of compulsory health testing?


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