# Baby Housemartin, what are his chances?



## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

For the last few years I have had a pair of housemartins nesting in a corner of my horse's stable. This year they have 4 little babies who I think are shortly due to fledge.

This morning, when I arrived to check my horse, one of the babies was on the floor beneath the nest. He/she appeared well apart from being, as yet, unable to fly. I managed to get him back into the nest with his brothers/sisters but had to pick him up to do so. What are his chances?

Will his parents feed him or are they likely to reject him due to the smell of a human on him. ?Is there anything else which I could have done to help little Mo ( I've named them Eanie. Meenie, Miney and Mo, Mum and dad are Bob and Aston)

I felt that getting him back into the nest was his best chance. Last year they had a clutch of 6  and the nest collapsed, presumably under the weight, with 3 falling out. That time I placed the 3 in a feed bowl placed 4ft off the ground close to the nest but the parents ignored them and they all died.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Forester, you have given the baby bird the best chance possible by putting him back in the nest. Brilliant you were able to locate the right nest. :thumbsup:

The fact the bird has a smell of human on them probably doesn't matter. Not all birds have a strong sense of smell, as with a few exceptions (e.g. the Kiwi bird in Australia) birds find their food mainly by using their excellent eyesight and hearing. 

Also, the RSPB frequently handles baby birds (e.g. birds of prey) whilst they are in the nest, to ring them and weigh them etc. This does not stop the parents from continuing to feed them afterwards. 

I do hope all the babies survive and fledge!


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm sure he'll be fine, as said above birds can't smell so he'll have just as much chance as his siblings, so you did the right thing! I have to do a baby bird patrol twice a day at the mo so the dogs don't get any downed fledglings, so far today I've returned 2 jackdaws, a swallow, a sparrow and a starling back into their nests, they're just at that wriggly fledgling point and often fall out!


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

chillminx said:


> Forester, you have given the baby bird the best chance possible by putting him back in the nest. Brilliant you were able to locate the right nest. :thumbsup:
> 
> The fact the bird has a smell of human on them probably doesn't matter. Not all birds have a strong sense of smell, as with a few exceptions (e.g. the Kiwi bird in Australia) birds find their food mainly by using their excellent eyesight and hearing.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Chillminx. Selecting the correct nest was easy. There is only one!. I removed the previous years' nests several months ago after reading that old nests can harbour parasites which would be detrimental to the health of this year's broods. I trust that this is correct.

The difficult task was to actually get baby back into the nest. It involved placing him/her into a bucket which I tied to a tie ring in the wall. I needed both hands to steady myself whilst I clambered onto a stack of old milk crates which I'd piled on top of a heap of old bedding. I was only just able to reach high enough to get Mo back into the nest. It was very satisfying to actually get him back in with his siblings but once I'd done so I started to wonder whether I'd actually done the right thing.

This afternoon, Eanie, Meanie, Miney and Mo are all jostling for space and flexing their wings. At least I have now worked out how to reach the nest if anyone should be on the floor unable to fly again.

Alexart, that's reassuring to know.


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

He made it ! All 4 babies are now happily flying around.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Brilliant news! Lucky you found him when you did and got him back in the nest quickly


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## nicolaa123 (Mar 30, 2012)

Forester said:


> He made it ! All 4 babies are now happily flying around.


Great news


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Forester said:


> He made it ! All 4 babies are now happily flying around.


Very good to read that.:thumbup:


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Fantastic :thumbup:


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm so pleased.

Last year I was heartbroken when the nest collapsed under the weight of 6 babies and 3 died. I had made them a " nest" in an old feed bowl placed 4 ft off the ground below the remains of the nest . I placed the three " fallers" into this but sadly the parents ignored them . 

Mum and dad Housemartin must be happy as they have started another nest for the next clutch of eggs.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

So pleased for you xx. Well done and way to go Mo 
I love it when they build an extension 

The nest on our house falls down during the winter. Absolutely adore seeing them back each year.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Just curious... erm, are you sure it was a housemartin? 

House martins do not typically nest inside building such as stables, and their chicks rarely fall out the nest because the hole of a house martin nest is pretty small! More likely your nest is a swallow - they very typically nest inside structures such as stables, their nest is a half-cup, and sometimes its not big enough to contain all the babies once they get pretty big and the nests sometimes break or fall down. The babies do hold pretty tight to the nest though, but sometimes during the jostle for food they can get dislodged.

This is a typical swallow nest:

http://wallpapersus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Swallows-Nest.jpg

And this is a typical house martin nest:

http://www.lakelandeye.co.uk/lakes2008/may_08/2005080064bw.jpg

House martins usually make their nests under eaves on the outside of a building. (Swifts like to actually get inside the eaves).

It's true that birds are not put off by the scent of a human - with few exceptions most bird's have a very poor sense of smell, and it was absolutely the best thing to do to return the chick to the nest (well done!). That said, it is illegal for anyone without a permit to touch the contents of a bird's nest (except to do what you did and return a fallen chick to the nest), and intrusion to a birds nest may cause the bird to desert it, the chicks to 'explode' (leave the nest prematurely) or else attract a predator's attention to the nest - with disastrous consequences!.

It is the BTO not the RSPB that is responsible for the ringing and nest recording by the way, the RSPB is a conservation body - and whilst they do surveys, any ringing is done in conjunction with the BTO. If you are wondering, I am a BTO licensed nest recorder and bird ringer, and I spend my summers trawling the welsh valleys looking for nests 

Welcome to the BTO | BTO - British Trust for Ornithology

If you are concerned about the nests falling down in the future, take a look at these artificial nests you can buy. The birds do use them, but at the end of the year its good idea to clean them out so that they will use them the next year (sometimes they avoid last year's nest to avoid parasite burden).

Swallow Nest | RSPB Bird Nest Boxes | RSPB Shop

Anyway, well done for doing what you did, and hopefully your little bird will make it to Africa and back to nest next year.


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

Aww Phoenix24, this is embarrassing........We have swallows  

Thank you so much for your helpful and informative post.

I do have a photo of one of last year's broods sat on a looping wire in the stable however I can't get it to transfer to the laptop in order to upload it.

I knew that House Martins were supposed to nest outside under the eaves. I just thought that I had a very adaptable and enterprising pair. I thought that they'd adapted their nest to suit the location. 

I love them anyway and always look forward to their arrival in the spring. My husband and I get great pleasure from seeing them dart and swoop around. 

I will get them a terracotta nest ready for next spring which should hopefully help to avoid future casualties. 

Was there anything which I could have done which might have helped last year's " fallers ".? I was greatly saddened that the parents ignored them. 

Can I ask you how long they live ? I've had 1 pair nesting in the stable for each of the last 5 or 6 years , are they likely to be the same pair?


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

Phoenix24 , The BTO site you have linked to is awesome 

I have saved it, thanks.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Phoenix24 said:


> Just curious... erm, are you sure it was a housemartin?
> 
> House martins do not typically nest inside building such as stables, and their chicks rarely fall out the nest because the hole of a house martin nest is pretty small! More likely your nest is a swallow - they very typically nest inside structures such as stables, their nest is a half-cup, and sometimes its not big enough to contain all the babies once they get pretty big and the nests sometimes break or fall down. The babies do hold pretty tight to the nest though, but sometimes during the jostle for food they can get dislodged.
> 
> ...


Are you looking for Housemartins atm?


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

westie~ma said:


> Are you looking for Housemartins atm?


I record a few housemartins if I can see the youngsters head peeping out (a sign the nest is active). We are not allowed to do much else with house martin nests because to get inside one would damage or destroy the nest. I had one last year that was quite low down, and though I couldn't determine how many eggs the female had laid, I was able to note her sitting, and when the chicks were larger I could guess roughly how many young there were (you normally only see two heads).

Swallows I record as many as I can reach - sometimes they are up in the apex of really tall barns and accessing them is dangerous not just for me but potentially for the birds too if I wasn't secure!


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Phoenix24 said:


> I record a few housemartins if I can see the youngsters head peeping out (a sign the nest is active). We are not allowed to do much else with house martin nests because to get inside one would damage or destroy the nest. I had one last year that was quite low down, and though I couldn't determine how many eggs the female had laid, I was able to note her sitting, and when the chicks were larger I could guess roughly how many young there were (you normally only see two heads).
> 
> Swallows I record as many as I can reach - sometimes they are up in the apex of really tall barns and accessing them is dangerous not just for me but potentially for the birds too if I wasn't secure!


Ah I see. It's just when you mentioned the Welsh valleys it raised my interest even more as mine are in Pembrokeshire under the eaves of the cottage. They have been the last three years and while I haven't spotted any other nests around I have spotted other Housemartins flying around, but now you mention it maybe they are Swallows, so far above and moving fast not always easy to see clearly.

Haven't seen any heads yet, last year I saw heads 

My pictures from another thread:-

Flying in 


















The nest (the black line you can see if from the nest they made last year)










Am down there on Friday again, so will take more photos as the last time I checked on them they'd completed the nest.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Forester said:


> Aww Phoenix24, this is embarrassing........We have swallows
> 
> Thank you so much for your helpful and informative post.
> 
> ...


It's a common ID error that many people make so please don't be embarrassed.

Now that you know the difference between the nests, to ID the adult birds the best way it to look at the shape of the tail (swallow's tails are more deeply forked and the forks are thinner than the house martin), and the colour of the breast (swallows are creamy white, orange-ish or in some subspecies deep orange-red, house martins are white), and the house martin has a white throat and a white rump, whereas the swallow has a red throat and no white on the rump.

The sand martin is like the house martin in shape, but instead of the blue-black colouration they are sandy-brown, and they have no white rump.

The swift is dark all over and has longer and much pointier wings, and the tail is narrow-forked but shorter than a swallow.

The fake nests are usually make of something called woodcrete and look quite like a mud cup 

Last years fallers - if the nest is completely destroyed, use a shallow tub (like a small margarine tub), with some hay/grass base and feathers to line (if you can find some) and nail it to exactly wherever the old nest was. The adults locate their nest by position, and if the chicks are too young to have left the nest they will be ignored if they are not in the right place. The chicks do not typically leave the nest until they are absolutely ready to fly, and they will often return to the nest or nearby to roost for the first few days.

If you have an artificial nest in reserve, you can fix one of these up in place of any fallen nest (if its in a place large enough for you to do this). Improvisation is key. One year I had a spotted flycatcher fall from its nest and I was not able to put it back, so I nailed a marge tub under the porch that was underneath the nest (which was under eaves) and surprisingly the adults tended that chick as well as the remaining ones in the nest. The difference with those birds though, aside from extremely strong instincts to tend the nest no matter what, is that the chicks do sometimes leave the nest a bit early. Swallows don't do this.

Typical lifespan of a swallow is 2 years (the maximum recorded is over 11 years). Take a look here at info the BTO has on swallows:

BTO BirdFacts | Swallow


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

westie~ma said:


> Ah I see. It's just when you mentioned the Welsh valleys it raised my interest even more as mine are in Pembrokeshire under the eaves of the cottage. They have been the last three years and while I haven't spotted any other nests around I have spotted other Housemartins flying around, but now you mention it maybe they are Swallows, so far above and moving fast not always easy to see clearly.
> 
> Haven't seen any heads yet, last year I saw heads
> 
> Am down there on Friday again, so will take more photos as the last time I checked on them they'd completed the nest.


If you are interested in nest recording anyone can join in.

The Nest Record Scheme | BTO - British Trust for Ornithology

And those are house martins


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Phoenix24 said:


> If you are interested in nest recording anyone can join in.
> 
> The Nest Record Scheme | BTO - British Trust for Ornithology
> 
> And those are house martins


Sent an email for the quick guide  thank you Phoenix, I like to check on them when I'm there and this feels like I'm doing something to look after them is some small way.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Phoenix24 said:


> If you are interested in nest recording anyone can join in.
> 
> The Nest Record Scheme | BTO - British Trust for Ornithology
> 
> And those are house martins


I shall pass this on to my friend. She has house martins nesting every year. this year there are 22 nests

Whenever I call round to see her I am watched by lots of birds peeking out of their nests


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Forester said:


> ...
> Last year, I was heartbroken when the nest collapsed under the weight of 6 babies and 3 died.
> I'd made them a "nest" in an old feed bowl placed 4 ft off the ground below the remains of the nest.
> I placed the [fallen infants] into this, but sadly the parents ignored them.
> ...


If this happens again, FIND A MESH BASKET that is large-enuf to encompass the entire nest - assuming it's now
broken & fell; put the fallen infants into a paper-towel lined bowl inside a closed, perforated cardboard box,
in a shady spot - like inside the barn; SUN on an enclosed box can be fatal quickly. 
[Be prepared to burn the box; mites are common on nesting birds.]

Place the remains of the nest in the sturdy mesh basket - i-e, a strawberry basket from the grocer, etc,
or TWO of them stacked inside one another. Using staples, secure the basket to the rafter - so that
the basket support the broken nest, & are securely fastened.
Once the basketed nest is secured, climb back up & install the infants - a washcloth to drape the nest
will keep the ones IN the nest from panicking as Ur monstrous hand arrives with a new sibling to add;
slide the cloth over to snuggle the latest addition in, cover her/him, pick up the next.

U'll need a ladder - preferably with a deployable paint-can shelf to hold the basketed nest, then the cardboard
box of babies whilst U transfer them.

When the nest is vacant, remove basket, nest & all. Next season, they'll build a new one that hopefully
won't fall down. :yesnod:
.
.


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

Phoenix24 said:


> If you have an artificial nest in reserve, you can fix one of these up in place of any fallen nest (if its in a place large enough for you to do this).


Thanks, I'll get an extra ( artificial nest )so that I can keep it in reserve for this purpose.

It will be good to know that I have " emergency supplies " ready for them.

I've got very attached to them and they are becoming bolder each year. For the first couple of years the chicks would stop calling for food and duck their little heads down behind the wall of the nest whenever I entered the stable. The recent chicks don't bother to " hide " at all. They keep calling and wave their little heads at me almost as if they think that I might feed them.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

With younger chicks of some species vibration often elicits a begging response. Squeaky kissing noises can work a treat too  The older they get though the more likely they are to hunker down. When they are well feathered it is not advised to get too close in case they leap out of the nest.

Swallows will have 2-3 broods in a season so having spare nests in reserve is certainly a good idea!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

On the farm when i was growing up, we had swallows in the barn shared by our sheep-flock & horses / pony;
i loved to watch their amazing flying, & their sweet, light chittering kept us company all summer.
The males had lovely red breasts, & both sexes had gleaming blue-black backs & wings.

My mother volunteered to change the flowers at our local church one summer, & once while she was busy
arranging the bouquets, i wandered thru the nave & found a male swallow, lying dead on the tile floor. 
He'd apparently flown in, & been trapped - when i picked up the body, i was shocked to find it was almost
weightless; he was nothing but a small, sleek bundle of feathers.
I thought he'd starved, but later learned it was more-likely he died of thirst; dehydration kills very quickly,
starvation takes longer. He seemed so much smaller in death; his fragile little husk haunted me for
a long while.

We also had bank-swallows in the sandy gravel at the quarry, where we swam in summer. Their coloring
was not so dark & striking as the barn swallows', but their chittering voices were just as sweet.

I can never hear a swallow without thinking of summer days: horses grazing, the sweet smell of cut hay,
the warm smooth wood of a fence or gate under my hand, ox-eye daisies in the pasture, the stream babbling.
I associate them with peace, a sense of contentment, watching them tend their chicks & dart for insects.
It was a wonderful time.


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