# Wait for papers?



## Cats Slave (Sep 12, 2008)

Our kittens have been with us for 3 weeks now but the breeder still hasn't sent through registration papers or pedigree. They told me they'd sent it all off ages before I picked them up - is such a delay normal? We have always been given papers with kitten before


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

Are your kittens reg with Tica or Gccf?

My experience with a Tica reg earlier this year was a long wait.

Gccf was about a month.

They could send pedigree to you now though.


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

i had to wait for a couple of mine due to colour changes and silly bits but i went away with the pedigree when i picked them up xx

as someone has said - suppose it depends on who kittens are registered with xx


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## Cats Slave (Sep 12, 2008)

They showed me photocopies of a GCCF slip. I hope it's just a delay, they are a GCCF judge for that breed so surely they wouldn't sell me un-registered kittens?


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

*I always give Pedigree papers out with the kittens, but i do with hold Transfer slips untill neut/spay has been done, I am with the GCCF.*


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

rottiesloveragdolls said:


> *I always give Pedigree papers out with the kittens, but i do with hold Transfer slips untill neut/spay has been done, I am with the GCCF.*


ah, good thing you said that Lyn - yeah if they're to be neutered then most pink slips won't come to you ( if GCCF registered) until proof of spaying xx


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

Cats Slave said:


> They showed me photocopies of a GCCF slip. I hope it's just a delay, they are a GCCF judge for that breed so surely they wouldn't sell me un-registered kittens?


*
sorry but i think they are bang out of order, a judge should know better, read up on the GCCF rules.RULE 10. * Welcome to the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

You should have been given the Pedigrees even if the transfer slips have not come back yet.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

fluffypurrs said:


> You should have been given the Pedigrees even if the transfer slips have not come back yet.


*Totally agree with you there fluff  *


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Well there's no excuse is there? Just write it out or type it up and print it out!!! 

Also what was the photo copy of? If it was the transfer of ownership then why didin't they give it to you?


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

fluffypurrs said:


> Well there's no excuse is there? Just write it out or type it up and print it out!!!
> 
> Also what was the photo copy of? If it was the transfer of ownership then why didin't they give it to you?


*sounds a bit suss *


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

transfer of registration 10b, if the breeder has a policy of releasing transfer papers after proof of neutering has been returned, this is acceptable so long as the buyer has been made aware and has signed as such in the sales agreement. Many breeders now do this and it is permissable and accepted by GCCF. Don't know why no pedigree though


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

*you should of definatly had the pedigree papers, as i said before the transfers can be with-held *


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I think it's silly if people hold back papers until proof of neutering. Namely because if people are gonna breed behind the breeders backs then they ain't the type of person to care about registering the cat.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

fluffypurrs said:


> I think it's silly if people hold back papers until proof of neutering. Namely because if people are gonna breed behind the breeders backs then they ain't the type of person to care about registering the cat.


*I dont think it is silly i have been lucky upto now with mine and kept in contact with all new owners. not only that i do have a contract that people have to agree too and sign, and the kitten/cat if not transfered to new ownership is still Legally belonging to the breeder who can take steps in the return of the kitten/cat if any of the rules in the agreement have been broken,*


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

rottiesloveragdolls said:


> *I dont think it is silly i have been lucky upto now with mine and kept in contact with all new owners. not only that i do have a contract that people have to agree too and sign, and the kitten/cat if not transfered to new ownership is still Legally belonging to the breeder who can take steps in the return of the kitten/cat if any of the rules in the agreement have been broken,*


Hi Lyn

I have registered my kittens 2 as active which I'm keeping & 2 boys as non-active as they are not to be bred from.
would you still with hold the papers in this case until they'd been neutered?
I'm not sure what to do for the best. The only reason the new owner would need the pink slips I suppose, is if they were planning to show.
They could still show them in my name I suppose but does that complicate things?

I guess you just have to trust your instincts with the new owners.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Before I had my kittens neutered prior to sale (over 5 years ago) I used to withhold the transfer document until I'd received proof of neutering I had a tear-off bit on my sales agreement to be completed and signed by the vet. It worked very well, but neutering is much better 

I can't say why the breeder in question didn't even give a pedigree with the kittens - they have actually broken GCCF rules, especially if nothing was signed as to the papers being withheld.

Of course in practice most new owners couldn;t care less about the documents and really the transfer is only important if the kitten is going to be shown, but the rules should still be adhered to.



rottiesloveragdolls said:


> *I dont think it is silly i have been lucky upto now with mine and kept in contact with all new owners. not only that i do have a contract that people have to agree too and sign, and the kitten/cat if not transfered to new ownership is still Legally belonging to the breeder who can take steps in the return of the kitten/cat if any of the rules in the agreement have been broken,*


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I meant to say as well, that it normally takes 3 weeks for GCCF to process registrations. So why didn't the breeder send off the reg. form when the kittens were 9-10 weeks old, that way she'd have had them back in time for them going to new homes.


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

these "contracts "are non enforcable,and basically worthless,unless a document is written by a solicitor they are not worth the paper they are written on.


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

Sungold-Bengals said:


> Hi Lyn
> 
> I have registered my kittens 2 as active which I'm keeping & 2 boys as non-active as they are not to be bred from.
> would you still with hold the papers in this case until they'd been neutered?
> ...


*I still keep the transfer slips untill proof of neut/spay. as they are still registerd in my name until i know for sure from their vets, then i send the pink slips, then it is upto the new owners to send the form back to the gccf and transfer them, *


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

shortbackandsides said:


> these "contracts "are non enforcable,and basically worthless,unless a document is written by a solicitor they are not worth the paper they are written on.


*check the GCCF site there is a contract on there drawn up by their own solicitors for us to use and we can reword it,
Welcome to the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy *


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Were the kittens bought as Show or Pet,
But i dont see why they would have witheld the pedigree . if you bought the kittens as "show potential" then until they are registered in YOU'RE name then you would be unable to show them.
i agree with a previous comment , it does sound a little suss.. Its understandable when some breeders hold back the pink slip until they have proof of spaying/nuetering but you should have def been given the pedigree of them.....Did you actually see the cats pedigree??
i hope you get this sorted out, best wishes............Chris.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

when my cat's pink slip had not been back in time at the time of sale i was given a blue slip to send into the office. then when it was ready i got the pink slip back sent to me with the cat in my name. so they could have given you a blue one. or, explained that you would have no papers til they were neutered if that is what they are doing.


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## Cats Slave (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks for all your replies!
They were sold as pets - but we discussed their being registered, on non-active, what was the prefix, how they came up with names (they couldn't remember what they called the kittens though), did I want to transfer ownership as only really necessary if showing etc
I stupidly didn't get a receipt for the grand I coughed up in cash for them either but I can't believe they wouldn't have registered them - they've been breeding and showing for years (with at least a couple of C's I found on google) and part of the show circuit - rolled off the names of all the other breeders in the area I'd been to and of course now a judge.

I've not seen any papers, the photocopy I saw was the same size as a transfer slip and was typed with a cats name but didn't see the breed/type.

I know they've had some family illness which took them away from home for a while so could they just have been delayed sending all the paperwork off? Do you have to register kittens before a certain age?


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Cats Slave said:


> Thanks for all your replies!
> They were sold as pets - but we discussed their being registered, on non-active, what was the prefix, how they came up with names (they couldn't remember what they called the kittens though), did I want to transfer ownership as only really necessary if showing etc
> I stupidly didn't get a receipt for the grand I coughed up in cash for them either but I can't believe they wouldn't have registered them - they've been breeding and showing for years (with at least a couple of C's I found on google) and part of the show circuit - rolled off the names of all the other breeders in the area I'd been to and of course now a judge.
> 
> ...


There's a big leeway so there is plenty of time. Why not just ring them and ask? If the paperwork has been delayed as you said , it could still all be done soon. I would ring for a chat, let them know how the kittens are settling and just ask for an update.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Cats Slave said:


> Our kittens have been with us for 3 weeks now but the breeder still hasn't sent through registration papers or pedigree. They told me they'd sent it all off ages before I picked them up - is such a delay normal?


In a word, yes. Embarassing though it was, I recently had to make a new owner wait five weeks for papers - and I had applied for registration at least a month before the kittens were ready to leave home. The delay in sending the pedigrees could be simply that until the registrations are accepted, the given pedigree name cannot be guaranteed.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> I think it's silly if people hold back papers until proof of neutering. Namely because if people are gonna breed behind the breeders backs then they ain't the type of person to care about registering the cat.


I can't see the use of such a policy to be honest. Any kittens will be unregisterable regardless of whether the papers have been handed over or not, and someone breeding unregistered kittens is not going to care much about the transfer document.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

rottiesloveragdolls said:


> *the kitten/cat if not transfered to new ownership is still Legally belonging to the breeder who can take steps in the return of the kitten/cat if any of the rules in the agreement have been broken,*


Hmm, I wouldn't rate much for the chances of that standing up in court, not against a microchip anyway.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Cats Slave said:


> Do you have to register kittens before a certain age?


Yes - two years!

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Cats Slave said:


> I stupidly didn't get a receipt for the grand I coughed up in cash for them either but I can't believe they wouldn't have registered them - they've been breeding and showing for years (with at least a couple of C's I found on google) and part of the show circuit - rolled off the names of all the other breeders in the area I'd been to and of course now a judge.


Try not to worry. By far the most likely explanation is GCCF delay.

Liz


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

I am sorry but i think it is quite disturbing that you did not get a receipt for the money paid for the kitten(s). That would be IMO a normal thing to do by a breeder. 

When I adopted my 2 ADULT Maine Coons I was automatically given a receipt for the amount paid by the breeder. She had the paperwork all ready and waiting.

I paid in cash. 

I wanted to register my ownership with GCCF because if they live to be 15 or over I can register them on PAWS Methuesla (sp) database - I couldn't with my former MC as I had not bothered about GCCF transfer.

The breeder did say that most people buying kittens really weren't that botherered and seldom wanted to transfer ownership.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> I meant to say as well, that it normally takes 3 weeks for GCCF to process registrations. So why didn't the breeder send off the reg. form when the kittens were 9-10 weeks old, that way she'd have had them back in time for them going to new homes.


It depends, if the breeder is undecided as to whether they are going to be sold active or inactive this might be an instance where the kittens are not registered until the time of sale. Depending on whether they are going to a pet home or a breeding home.

Also if they have been registered active and are going for pet, they may have to apply to have them changed to the inactive register


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

lizward said:


> Try not to worry. By far the most likely explanation is GCCF delay.
> 
> Liz


Especially with the fact that they have the Supreme coming up too!


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I do find it strange though that you were not given a pedigree and a receipt for your payment, that is standard procedure, par for the course


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2008)

Try not to worry - I have been waiting a few weeks for one of my pink slips and apparently GCCF are very behind at the moment.

I do have the pedigree and receipt though so I would maybe chase it up.

Louise
X


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I would automatically register all kittens non-active unless I knew I was keeping one myself for breeding, or if one had already been booked to another breeder. You can always change the registration at a later date if needs be, and if I did end up selling one for breeding I'd expect the new owner to pay for the change of register.
as mine are neutered prior to sale anyway, it wouldn't matter if one had been registered active and then went as a pet 



Saynamore said:


> It depends, if the breeder is undecided as to whether they are going to be sold active or inactive this might be an instance where the kittens are not registered until the time of sale. Depending on whether they are going to a pet home or a breeding home.
> 
> Also if they have been registered active and are going for pet, they may have to apply to have them changed to the inactive register


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

My last set of kitten registrations (earlier this month) took the standard 3 weeks so I don't think there should be any delays at present.



FluffyCatLover said:


> Try not to worry - I have been waiting a few weeks for one of my pink slips and apparently GCCF are very behind at the moment.
> 
> I do have the pedigree and receipt though so I would maybe chase it up.
> 
> ...


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## audrey1824 (Aug 1, 2008)

There is no excuse for no pedigree or even a receipt, transfer slips can take awhile for various reasons.


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

I'm with everyone else on this - pedigrees and receipts are easy enough for the breeder to produce and there is therefore no excuse for not giving this to a new owner when the kitten is collected. The pink slip may take a while for several reasons - post, admin, late application etc.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Especially with the fact that they have the Supreme coming up too!


There is also something up on their website about Jackie Beeson resigning and them not taking calls in the afternoon because they are trying hard to catch up!

Lzi


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

That's a lame excuse for the GCCF - the Supreme happens every year and they pretty well start organising a year in advance so its a normal part of their work, like kitten registrations etc.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

OMG - that's dreadful that Jackie is resigning, she was excellent 



lizward said:


> There is also something up on their website about Jackie Beeson resigning and them not taking calls in the afternoon because they are trying hard to catch up!
> 
> Lzi


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

any updates?


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