# Why is it so difficult to get a breeding queen as a first time breeder?



## Chold (10 mo ago)

Hi, I'm interested in breeding cats as a hobby breeder and to give me some kind of purpose in life(seriously lacking right now). I have lots of space and a LOT of spare time, I'm at home all day long. I know what's involved and have done extensive research and feel ready to take the plunge, my biggest question and concern is, how? I am having great difficulty in finding a breeder that is willing to sell an active registered kitten to me, it seems like it's really difficult to get started. Why are breeders so reluctant to sell active registered kittens to first time breeders? Almost everywhere I look it says PET only non-active etc. 

I was hoping to start with Devon Rex, is that a good breed to start with or would you recommend a different breed? I chose Devon Rex because I just love the way they look and their active playful temperaments and I want to breed healthy good quality kittens with good temperaments, so how do I choose the right queen? plus the fact that there isn't really any Devon Rex breeders locally at all.


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## Maurey (Nov 18, 2019)

You want to start with a show neuter of your breed of interest, to start with, build up some contacts in the fancy, and find a mentor that way. Your mentor will be able to sell you your first queen, and provide a stud, either themselves, or from a friendly cattery. It's difficult to find a breeding animal as a newbie because responsible breeders don't like to sell to someone who may become a BYB, or otherwise not know what they're doing. A mentor will provide you with the best education and opportunities. If you don't have Devon Rex breeders within reasonable travelling distance, it may not be the best breed for you, especially as a beginner. You ideally want to be able to interact with your mentor in person.

If you have no experience with pregnancy and newborn kittens, it may be a good idea to foster a pregnant queen or two while you show a neuter.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I agree with some fostering of a pregnant queen through to her kittens leaving.

Beyond that, having time on your hands isn't really a good reason to breed. Showing a neuter is the way to go. And you need a good stash of cash as there can be some big vet bills when things go wrong.

Personally I'd steer clear of Devon Rex. Yes they are active, playful & attractive, but the main issues as I see it are that:


there are blood group issues that can complicate breeding them, 
some have a genetic tendency to HCM.


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## BossyCats (11 mo ago)

I would personally try and focus on finding a mentor and friend who breeds the type of cats you are interested in. Once you have a good relationship with a breeder you are more likely to be given the opportunity to have one of their kittens on the active register. It’s not just a case of finding an active queen from anyone who will hand one over.

With regards to choosing a breed, I would suggest you own or at least have a lot of experience with whichever breed it is that you choose. You only have to look at the amount of people who think an Oriental or Siamese would be the perfect for them but quickly decide they are too demanding and noisy when they actually get one. (Not my own opinion of course they are lovely)


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Chold said:


> I was hoping to start with Devon Rex, is that a good breed to start with or would you recommend a different breed?


they need to be your heart and soul, a breed you cannot live without and want to preserve for the long term. Something you can't possibly know without owning one first.

Breeding is extremely hard and heartbreaking at times, not just something to do to fill time.

Like others I started by showing neuters, it's the best way to learn about the breed, the standard and mix with other breeders.
Chatting with breeders of any breed at shows is extremely helpful, it's not always an option to have your breed mentor live locally (especially with rare or lower numbered breeds) so having others you can shadow and learn from is essential.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Chold said:


> Why are breeders so reluctant to sell active registered kittens to first time breeders?


A quick look at some of the threads on this forum will give you the answer to that. People seem to think they can just jump in and breed cats, even breeds they've never actually owned. Genuine Pedigree cat Breeders have become increasingly wary about helping unknown people in recent years as we've either been burned or seen friends get burned.



Chold said:


> I was hoping to start with Devon Rex, is that a good breed to start with or would you recommend a different breed?


The fact you are asking if Devon Rex are a good breed to start with or if you should choose another will be just one reason why you cannot find anyone who will sell you a breeding queen. Do you already own this breed??



Chold said:


> I am having great difficulty in finding a breeder that is willing to sell an active registered kitten to me, it seems like it's really difficult to get started.


In order to open doors you really need to show you are 100% committed to that breed. They must be your be all and end all, you should be able to discuss the breed at length and with enthusiasm.

I started off with a show neuter. This helped me to get known within the cat fancy (a very small place) and allowed me to get into breeding later on when I understood the fundamentals of my chosen breed. I'd suggest you go the same route as it will be a lot easier for you to progress later on.


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## Chold (10 mo ago)

Thanks for the responses. I have found a breeder who is willing to mentor me and sell me an active registered kitten, feeling very excited but it's a long way off yet so I will make sure to put the work in and make sure she is ready and well looked after before even considering breeding from her. Firstly I need to focus on raising her to be a wonderful pet.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Does your breeder show?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Do you have any experience with cats at all?

I think it's too bad you aren't willing to follow the excellent and wise advice from our knowledgeable and experienced members. Based on their posts I would be mighty wary of any breeder wiling to sell you a breeding queen kitten right off the bat. What do you know about them or their cats or the breed?


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## Chold (10 mo ago)

lorilu said:


> Do you have any experience with cats at all?
> 
> I think it's too bad you aren't willing to follow the excellent and wise advice from our knowledgeable and experienced members. Based on their posts I would be mighty wary of any breeder wiling to sell you a breeding queen kitten right off the bat. What do you know about them or their cats or the breed?


Hi, yes I've had cats all my life pretty much as pets. Currently have a neutered cat as a pet as well. I have taken the advice onboard and appreciate it.

Why should I be wary? The breeder is willing to mentor me through it and people have to start somewhere.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Chold said:


> Why should I be wary? The breeder is willing to mentor me through it and people have to start somewhere.


Any breeder found via an advert online who agrees to mentor you after knowing you 5 minutes isn't going to be reputable.

it has been explained multiple times how best to start


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## Chold (10 mo ago)

spotty cats said:


> Any breeder found via an advert online who agrees to mentor you after knowing you 5 minutes isn't going to be reputable.
> 
> it has been explained multiple times how best to start


I disagree because you don't even know them so it's impossible for you to assume they are not reputable, whatever that means to you. In my opinion they are reputable otherwise I would not have chosen to contact them.

I know, but what's wrong with starting like this?

By the way do you think you have to be involved in the show business to be a cat breeder?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Chold said:


> I disagree because you don't even know them so it's impossible for you to assume they are not reputable, whatever that means to you. In my opinion they are reputable otherwise I would not have chosen to contact them.
> 
> I know, but what's wrong with starting like this?
> 
> By the way do you think you have to be involved in the show business to be a cat breeder?


Your questions have already been answered by experienced knowledgeable ethical breeders. Which is why you came here isn't it? For their advice.



Chold said:


> Hi, I'm interested in breeding cats as a hobby breeder and to give me some kind of purpose in life(seriously lacking right now). I have lots of space and a LOT of spare time, I'm at home all day long. I know what's involved and have done extensive research and feel ready to take the plunge, my biggest question and concern is, how? I am having great difficulty in finding a breeder that is willing to sell an active registered kitten to me, it seems like it's really difficult to get started. Why are breeders so reluctant to sell active registered kittens to first time breeders? Almost everywhere I look it says PET only non-active etc.
> 
> I was hoping to start with Devon Rex, is that a good breed to start with or would you recommend a different breed? I chose Devon Rex because I just love the way they look and their active playful temperaments and I want to breed healthy good quality kittens with good temperaments, so how do I choose the right queen? plus the fact that there isn't really any Devon Rex breeders locally at all.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Chold said:


> By the way do you think you have to be involved in the show business to be a cat breeder?


the hobby of showing goes hand in hand with breeding, otherwise what is the breeder breeding for? They're getting no assessments on their cats.
Cats should be bred to standard, and have excellent temperaments making them wonderful pets & show cats, each generation moving along for the next well typed cat to preserve the breeds standard.

Interested in what traits have made you think this particular breeder is reputable when things escalated so quickly?

choosing a mentor isn't always easy, you need to ensure a good friendship base is there, that their ethics aline with yours, what will their mentoring involve?


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## Chold (10 mo ago)

Ok interesting, I was not planning to attend shows. It's not really something I could do anyway. But that doesn't mean I don't want to breed to standard and ensure they have excellent temperaments and on top of superficial reasons that they are incredibly healthy with good lines.


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## lenanowa (Apr 15, 2019)

But how will you know what “good standard” means if you don’t get your cats evaluated by experts, and see other great examples of the breed at a show?

You said you wanted to breed good quality kittens and reading the SOP is a good place to start, but it’ll only take you so far. 

Showing is a lot of fun, and it’s a great way to meet new people and experienced breeders who will be able to help you along the way


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

The comments here about the value of showing are correct in principle. However, over decades I have become disillusioned with the willingness of a proportion of judges to judge to the SOP. Not all obviously but a novice could be led astray by some 'experts.' That is only in my own breeds so it may not be true generally. I think some people might be shocked at some of the things that go on at BAC meetings!

To clarify, some judges are unwilling to judge to the SOP. Sorry.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Showing in the UK is only just getting back on track after two years of Covid restrictions but I would definitely advise going even if you don't show your own cats. They're good places to talk to a variety of breeders and to see what type of cats are being placed. If you are intending to breed @Chold shows are a good place to make contacts.
Sadly though the numbers of some breeds at shows was declining before the pandemic. With the current economic climate and energy costs I wonder if that will continue. Travel costs alone will make it difficult for many people.
The decline in numbers has several factors though and judge's interpretation of breed standards could be one.
I try to breed to the more traditional type of my own breed but recently it has seemed that judges prefer the more extreme types. 
Also, the majority of kittens are sold as pets and even when I have suggested showing a particular kitten the buyers haven't been interested.
As for breeding, you really need to have a good rapport with your mentor - mine is still a good friend, 13 years on and I still ask her advice. Be open and upfront with your intentions and what you want to gain from breeding. I hope the person you have found is genuinely interested in helping you. We have all had to start somewhere but having a good background knowledge and experience of your particular breed is the best place to start from. I had been a slave to mine for 30 years before contemplating breeding.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

QOTN said:


> The comments here about the value of showing are correct in principle. However, over decades I have become disillusioned with the willingness of a proportion of judges to judge to the SOP. Not all obviously but a novice could be led astray by some 'experts.' That is only in my own breeds so it may not be true generally. I think some people might be shocked at some of the things that go on at BAC meetings!
> 
> To clarify, some judges are unwilling to judge to the SOP. Sorry.


This is absolutely true for GCCF. But GCCF are not the only registry out there, thank goodness.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Tigermoon said:


> This is absolutely true for GCCF. But GCCF are not the only registry out there, thank goodness.


The GCCF have good rules and principles. They just fail to enforce them adequately.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> This is absolutely true for GCCF. But GCCF are not the only registry out there, thank goodness.


I would be amazed if other registries don't have a few judges who don't judge to the SoP. The current trend in section 6 for massive very low set ears started in registries other than the GCCF. 

PS they are the only registry publishing judge's reports online, as supplied by the judge so not 'adjusted' by an exhibitor. That lest the would-be exhibitor read them and decide if that judge might like their cat - or not.


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## Chold (10 mo ago)

Random question.. Can you PM people on this website? I need to ask someone a question


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Chold said:


> Random question.. Can you PM people on this website? I need to ask someone a question


You can but only if you have made a minimum of 25 poste


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## Chold (10 mo ago)

lymorelynn said:


> You can but only if you have made a minimum of 25 poste


Ah ok, thank you


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Showing when you start out breeding means you get to know a lot of different breeders. I sadly lost my mentor (3 years today) who I would speak to everyday, but I have a whole community of people to talk to now who I have met at shows and as a new breeder, this was valuable. I wouldn’t sell any of my breeding to a new breeder starting out as I do not think I have the experience to mentor someone, as I haven’t experienced enough issues and problems.


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## lenanowa (Apr 15, 2019)

This ^^ So important to have those connections, for advice and support and also because sooner or later, you will need new bloodlines, or to find a stud etc (especially as a newbie - not everyone advertises on P4H, but will be willing to help out someone they know). 

Sure, some people get by just by importing, but surely a part of this being a hobby is to be a part of the cat fancy and meet like-minded people? 

Perhaps a bit idealistic, there are always some bad apples around, and everyone will have a slightly different idea of what the “ideal” cat looks like, but the majority of people I met so far in the show world have been lovely


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

lillytheunicorn said:


> I sadly lost my mentor (3 years today) who I would speak to everyday, but I have a whole community of people to talk to now who I have met at shows and as a new breeder, this was valuable.


So sorry you lost your mentor.
You never stop needing others either. 10,20,30 years of breeding it's important to have advice and support from others who truly understand our lives, sharing the many good times is just as important too.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> So sorry you lost your mentor.
> You never stop needing others either. 10,20,30 years of breeding it's important to have advice and support from others who truly understand our lives, sharing the many good times is just as important too.


Thank you, she has left a huge hole in my life but she sent me her beloved Fat Cat back to look after me in my Miss May who arrived early the day after my mentors funeral.

You are entirely right about sharing the good times too, the hardest part has been not having her around to share in those moments.


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