# child dies after dog bite :(



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dog Attack: Young Girl Dies After Being Bitten

My thoughts are with the family  RIP


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Dog Attack: Young Girl Dies After Being Bitten
> 
> My thoughts are with the family  RIP


Terrible, a young life taken so soon,
And should not be commenting without knowing the 'full' facts but concerned to read - The dog died shortly after the attack but police did not say how -

As I said, not knowing the facts should not jump the gun but one has to wonder if the dog were left alone with the child.


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

Oh the poor love. How awful 
R.I.P Sweetheart xx


Few things in the article that weren't very clear to me though, and I have to agree with DT, that comment threw me a bit too.


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## MrG (Jul 16, 2013)

i thought the same


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

So so sad!  Just seen on the news that the neighbours believe that it was a rescue dog around the size of a GSD.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

RIP little one


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2013)

Just terrible, poor child.

R.I.P little one


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

How horrible


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

An unnecessary and needless accident 

RIP Little one x


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

A bit more in the daily fail 
Leicester girl dies after being bitten by dog in Mountsorrel | Mail Online

Poor girl the same age as my daughter, RIP little one x


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I think different sources are saying different things. One I have just read said a neighbour thought the dog looked like a dangerous type, I assume they mean pitbull or something:



> The family has a similar sort of thing to the dogs that have been going off lately, similar to the dangerous dogs. I'm not saying it was dangerous but it looked a similar dog.


However, the police have said that it was not a breed that was listed under Section 1.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Another terrible tragedy.

Poor little girl. Poor family.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

4 years old. This is so sad.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Another tragedy. 

Some updates here:

Mountsorrel dog attack: Live updates after young girl dies after being savaged by family pet - Mirror Online

Last one is worrying, suggesting she had tried to wrestle with the dog.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Think it was the mother who tried to wrestle it off- other reports say it was a very big dog, they only had 4 weeks and it had shaken girl like a rag doll- the mother was seen with blood all over her as if she had wrestled it off.

Sorry to post it so graphically. Just reiterating. 

This is so awful.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Yes, I misread that.


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## Hudson87 (Aug 11, 2013)

Pictures now released of the child with the dog which was a French mastiff. The size difference was huge, god rest her soul.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Poor little girl, RIP. This seems to be happening too often, people get a new dog then almost immeadietly trust it with their kids.
Why dont they learn?


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Poor girl  so sad to hear another story of a dog attack.

There is a small part of me though that is relieved that it doesn't seem to have been another 'pit bull type' or SBT or Rottie this time, hopefully the public will see that it is NOT just certain dogs that are capable of such horrible attacks.

RIP little girl, I can't imagine what her family must be going through


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Hudson87 said:


> Pictures now released of the child with the dog which was a French mastiff. The size difference was huge, god rest her soul.


Do you have a link?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

One report said it was rescue, other said it was only with them 4 weeks.

I doubt any rescue worth their socks would give a dog that size to family with small kids- maybe they rehomed it privately?


Whatever they have taken this dog in and this is the result.

everyone involved in breeding and raising this dog should have passed on information- even if to remind maybe naive owners not to leave child with dog (not saying that is what happened) but for god's sake. who does the buck stop with?- and again i don't mean these people- for all we know they took the dog in good faith.

the people in Glasgow a few weeks back whose dogs mauled a wee girl- again- what absolute **** sold these dogs to people without making sure they understand what they have their hands on and how they're going to manage them/ fulfill their dogs' needs?

No one cares and no one takes responsibility- whilst puppy mills and BYBs exist this is the result.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Sadly, with a rescue, you have no way of knowing it's history. This is the main reason that I waited until my son was 15 before I took in a rescue.

Anyone who rehomes a rescue needs to be extra vigilant because something seemingly innocent could be a trigger for the dog. Four weeks is definitely too soon to have made an adequate assessment of the dog's temperament in my opinion. I would not leave a 4 year old alone with a dog anyway (we don't know that is what happened of course).

Jack sleeps through the noisiest fireworks going off outside - but if someone drops a shoe on the floor upstairs it worries him.

Such a sad, sad story.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

I know one of the policeman that was first on the scene.
He said that it was the worse day of his life and he's being doing the job for some years.
I didn't ask anything as he was too upset.
My thoughts are with her family.

R.I.P little one xx


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Sadly, with a rescue, you have no way of knowing it's history. This is the main reason that I waited until my son was 15 before I took in a rescue.
> 
> Anyone who rehomes a rescue needs to be extra vigilant because something seemingly innocent could be a trigger for the dog. Four weeks is definitely too soon to have made an adequate assessment of the dog's temperament in my opinion. I would not leave a 4 year old alone with a dog anyway (we don't know that is what happened of course).
> 
> ...


I agree lurcherlad- i do, but i am very skeptical a rescue gave this pup- could have been a free ads 'rescue'- not slagging the family AT ALL here- instead highlighting the irresponsibility of people who advertise/don't give people correct info- i cannot imagine rescue rehoming a dog that size with toddlers- known or unknown history...


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Snoringbear said:


> Do you have a link?


You can see a picture of the dog here Home | Mail Online


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Was just picking up on the point that was referring to it being a rescue - not that it was from a rescue IYKWIM 

Wherever it came from, it doesn't sound like the ideal dog for a family with small children, living in a flat IMO.

AND; having just seen the photograph of it I am 100% certain 

The dog is enormous and obviously extremely powerful.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Was just picking up on the point that was referring to it being a rescue - not that it was from a rescue IYKWIM
> 
> Wherever it came from, it doesn't sound like the ideal dog for a family with small children, living in a flat IMO.
> 
> ...


Help the forum moron- what does IYKWIM mean?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

RIP little one 

Its a horrible incident and with them only having had the dog a few weeks they may not have known what could trigger it to behave that way. The child didn't stand a chance if a breed the size and power of a ddb decided to act aggressively.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Wtf....Father mauled by family's bulldog a year after it attacked his SON | Mail Online Today too :'(


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Julesky said:


> Help the forum moron- what does IYKWIM mean?


If You Know What I Mean 

Actually, just read those letters through again, and it's almost rude


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> If You Know What I Mean
> 
> Actually, just read those letters through again, and it's almost rude


'Tis that you wee monkey - raised a chuckle on what is a sombre thread. Thanks.

It's just so frustrating- so needless and ALWAYS children who end up losing their lives.

It's bloody 2013.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Pointermum said:


> You can see a picture of the dog here Home | Mail Online


Look at the size of her, she's just a little wisp of a girl


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Pointermum said:


> You can see a picture of the dog here Home | Mail Online


Thanks for the link.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

No wonder she never stood a chance, poor little thing.
What happened to the dog though??, reports say it died but not how. Did the owners kill it or did it die somehow?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

DT said:


> Terrible, a young life taken so soon,
> And should not be commenting without knowing the 'full' facts but concerned to read - *The dog died shortly after the attack but police did not say how -
> *
> As I said, not knowing the facts should not jump the gun but one has to wonder if the dog were left alone with the child.


I was also concerned about this - I have a feeling that her dad (or another relative) has killed it.

I'm not trying to minimise the shock and horror of this poor baby's death, but if this dog has been killed cruelly, then there still needs to be a prosecution.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

lostbear said:


> I was also concerned about this - I have a feeling that her dad (or another relative) has killed it.
> 
> I'm not trying to minimise the shock and horror of this poor baby's death, but if this dog has been killed cruelly, then there still needs to be a prosecution.


3 ambulances and 3 police cars turned up- i think the dog has been killed by police officers responding to the 999 information.

And to be honest fair enough.

The abject horror of that scene.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lostbear said:


> I was also concerned about this - I have a feeling that her dad (or another relative) has killed it.
> 
> I'm not trying to minimise the shock and horror of this poor baby's death, but if this dog has been killed cruelly, then there still needs to be a prosecution.


The dog killed a child, it may have been the families only way of trying to save their precious baby, if killing a dog gave an innocent child a chance of survival I do it, without a second thought!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Meezey said:


> The dog killed a child, it may have been the families only way of trying to save their precious baby, if killing a dog gave an innocent child a chance of survival I do it, without a second thought!


Exactly. I don't think any of us are in any position to discuss the rights and wrongs of killing an animal that is attacking our kin- and i hope none of us ever have to from experience


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> If You Know What I Mean
> 
> Actually, just read those letters through again, and it's almost rude


Dirty boy!


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

Hudson87 said:


> Pictures now released of the child with the dog which was a French mastiff. The size difference was huge, god rest her soul.


which is the Dogue de Bordeaux , and by all accounts the family were looking after the dog for a friend, It had only been there 4 weeks. Poor little girl to die in this way IS horrific. R.I.P.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Poor child didn't stand a chance


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Julesky said:


> 3 ambulances and 3 police cars turned up- i think the dog has been killed by police officers responding to the 999 information.
> 
> And to be honest fair enough.
> 
> The abject horror of that scene.


If that's right, then I agree fair enough. It's just that some years ago a doberman was kicked to death by its owner because it knocked a hot cup of coffee off a table and scaled a toddler. It's always stuck in my mind.

Looking at the pics of the dog (which I have just seen) I wouldn't be surprised if killing this dog was the only way the police could stop it.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Meezey said:


> The dog killed a child, it may have been the families only way of trying to save their precious baby, if killing a dog gave an innocent child a chance of survival I do it, without a second thought!


I agree - my concern was that the dog was killed out of anger after the whole incident was over - I can only apologise if I gave the impression that I thought that the dog should not have been destroyed. Of course it should - no-one ccould ever trust it after that horrible incident.


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## Spudulicious (Sep 6, 2013)

I do hope no rescue centre rehomed a mastiff to a family with a young child in a flat. That would be negligent. I have nothing against mastiffs, but they are powerful dogs even with grown men, never mind little children! I do hope this wasn't the case. Poor child. Her family must be devastated


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spudulicious said:


> I do hope no rescue centre rehomed a mastiff to a family with a young child in a flat. That would be negligent. I have nothing against mastiffs, but they are powerful dogs even with grown men, never mind little children! I do hope this wasn't the case. Poor child. Her family must be devastated


Would be most concerned it the rehoming were done by a reputable rescue myself!

nothing anyone can say can bring this little girl back and hindsight is a wonder thing!

but the WHOLE sad event reeks of human error to me!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Stories are now saying the dog was from a pound!!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Any rescue worth their salt would not rehome a dog this size to a family with a toddler- the risk from knocking over alone is too high.


Reports are also saying looking after for a friend.

We shall see.

Whatever- no one deserves this


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Stories are now saying the dog was from a pound!!


Think there will be many stories before the truth in unvieled!
Taking everything with a pinch of salt at the moment


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

According to the Mirror, the little girl's mum stabbed it to death, but speaking as a mum myself, you do anything to try & protect your babies, so I don't think anyone can blame her for what she did

Mountsorrel dog attack: Lexi Hudson - first pictures of the girl killed by family dog - Mirror Online

It says the owner was pulled over a few times walking it  why would a rescue home a dog to someone who couldn't control it safely?

ETA: there's conflicting info on whether it's a rescue or a pound where they got the dog from


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DT said:


> Think there will be many stories before the truth in unvieled!
> Taking everything with a pinch of salt at the moment


Very true


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## BenBoy (Aug 31, 2013)

Just awful 

I wonder how it actually started, what made the dog snap.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

lostbear said:


> I was also concerned about this - I have a feeling that her dad (or another relative) has killed it.
> 
> I'm not trying to minimise the shock and horror of this poor baby's death, but if this dog has been killed cruelly, then there still needs to be a prosecution.


A dog that size attacking a young family member, whoever intervened would have had to be determined to stop the attack whatever it took.

I have to agree with others a dog that size being rehomed to a family living in a flat - that doesn't add up.

Looking at the photos there is nothing to suggest the dog was dangerously aggressive.

I too think there should be a prosecution to include the people at the source of the rehoming of the dog to the family.

My thoughts go to her family.

RIP little one.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Ultimately, the parents made the decision to have the dog in the house with their child


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Poor little girl and poor family 

Cannot believe people are suggesting there should be a prosecution *if* (nobody knows anything at this stage) a member of the family killed the dog. Good lord, I would have done absolutely _ANYTHING_ without a second thought to have got a dog off of one of my children.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Here's how it *looks* to me at the moment!
Mother takes in dog from god knows where! not any dog but a big powerful breed, Six weeks they have had the dog yet is seems the little girl is left the 'wrestle' (OK heresay) with it! Sorry! but hardly the behaviour of either a responsible dog owner or a responsible mother it any of that is true!

I have had my eldest do for 13 years and six grandchildren have been allowed around him! HE can be unpredictable with adults but has NEVER even looked wrong at a child and all my children trust him beyond reproach! BUT!! I have NEVER once left that dog with any of those grandchildren unattended! NOT ONCE

anyway, my rantings are not going to bring a poor innocent child back, her life has been cruelty snatched from her, and YES! I do have sympathy with the family or course I do! They will never ever ever forgive themselves for the mistake they made!

Which leaves me to ask! why oh why oh why do people with small children take in big powerful dogs they know nothing about?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> According to the Mirror, *the little girl's mum stabbed it to death, but speaking as a mum myself, you do anything to try & protect your babies, so I don't think anyone can blame her for what she did*
> 
> Mountsorrel dog attack: Lexi Hudson - first pictures of the girl killed by family dog - Mirror Online
> 
> ...


If that's right, then I'm not surprised - I'd tear out a dog's throat with my bare teeth if it had hold of my baby. In a situation like that, any action is understandable - in fact, commendable.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

That is one BIG dog, I cant imagine anyone risking having a dog like that with any child, but the mother said she was told the dog was good with children,
Still risky, I expect the truth of where the dog came from will all co,me out in the end, poor child


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

SixStar said:


> Poor little girl and poor family
> 
> Cannot believe people are suggesting there should be a prosecution *if* (nobody knows anything at this stage) a member of the family killed the dog. Good lord, I would have done absolutely _ANYTHING_ without a second thought to have got a dog off of one of my children.


I wasn't meaning a prosecution against whoever killed the dog, I was referring to whoever passed the dog on.

I would have done whatever it would have taken too.

All we do know is a child has lost her life, surely someone should be held accountable. We will see what transpires.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

R.i.p. little Lexi breaks my broken heart,
and
R.i.p. poor doggie , xx


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SixStar said:


> Poor little girl and poor family
> 
> Cannot believe people are suggesting there should be a prosecution *if* (nobody knows anything at this stage) a member of the family killed the dog. Good lord, I would have done absolutely _ANYTHING_ without a second thought to have got a dog off of one of my children.


As would most of us!
But would you have left your child alone with a big powerful dog that you knew nothing of???
That is of course assuming the little girl were left alone!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Ultimately, the parents made the decision to have the dog in the house with their child


Yeah I know BUT we don't have all the facts, loads of families go looking for pets, naively ... yeah- we can't expect everyone to know straight off- that's why rescues invest so much into matching dogs / cats to families/owners.

These people deserved to have been given as much knowledge as possible.

Given the short history with the animal and this tragedy it suggests to me they were not informed to the maximum.

Pue conjecture but based on rescue/rehoming experience


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

DT said:


> As would most of us!
> But would you have left your child alone with a big powerful dog that you knew nothing of???
> That is of course assuming the little girl were left alone!


No - and there is no suggestion the mother of this little girl did either - speculation and questioning of parental skills in such circumstances is downright cruel. Nobody knows anything yet - and judgement should be reserved until we do.


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

I just hope things are investigated properly and lessons are learnt from this horrible horrible event unfortunatly I doubt they will be as long as dogs are treated like caravans and tv's there will always be this risk. 
Having seen how some parents are prepared to let children behave around a dog it always amazes me just how tolerant they are, far more tolerant than humans. This is not to say this is what has happened in this incident but as others have said who knows what has happened in this dogs past. 
Sleep tight both of them.



jill3 said:


> I know one of the policeman that was first on the scene.
> He said that it was the worse day of his life and he's being doing the job for some years.
> I didn't ask anything as he was too upset.
> My thoughts are with her family.
> ...


 I hope the policeman that you know is able to access help to deal with this along with his workmates. Someone has to deal with these events as a job and for that I am greatful but I do hope his mental health doesn't suffer because of it. I can't imagine how distressing a situation like that would be for anyone involved. 
So sad.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SixStar said:


> No - and there is no suggestion the mother of this little girl did either - speculation and questioning of parental skills in such circumstances is downright cruel. Nobody knows anything yet - and judgement should be reserved until we do.


EXACTLY As I said earlier!
This whole thread is based on speculation!


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

jaycee05 said:


> That is one BIG dog, I cant imagine anyone risking having a dog like that with any child, but the mother said she was told the dog was good with children,
> Still risky, I expect the truth of where the dog came from will all co,me out in the end, poor child


I know dozens of people who do and have done so for many years with no issues whatsoever.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I have not read all the posts but everyone is focusing on the IMMEDIATE causes of the death, NOT the underlying ones.

The question is, did this dog come from a reputable rescue with trained staff skilled in assessing dogs of ALL breeds including giant ones.

That is what I would be focusing my attention on.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> I have not read all the posts but everyone is focusing on the IMMEDIATE causes of the death, NOT the underlying ones.
> 
> The question is, did this dog come from a reputable rescue with trained staff skilled in assessing dogs of ALL breeds including giant ones.
> 
> That is what I would be focusing my attention on.


OK will fill you in- first reports said rescue, some still saying rescue- others saying watched for friend.

Sincerely doubt /hope that no rescue would rehome a dog of this size with toddler.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Julesky said:


> Yeah I know BUT we don't have all the facts, loads of families go looking for pets, naively ... yeah- we can't expect everyone to know straight off- that's why rescues invest so much into matching dogs / cats to families/owners.
> 
> These people deserved to have been given as much knowledge as possible.
> 
> ...


I rehomed a rescue - there were no facts to give me as he was a stray. I took a calculated risk. My son was 15 and 6 foot tall.

I am not "blaming" anyone - but you would need to have been living in a cave for the last 15 years not to have some inkling about the ramifications of owning large, powerful dogs - especially with an unknown past. It is always a risk however small.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I rehomed a rescue - there were no facts to give me as he was a stray. I took a calculated risk. My son was 15 and 6 foot tall.
> 
> I am not "blaming" anyone - but you would need to have been living in a cave for the last 15 years not to have some inkling about the ramifications of owning large, powerful dogs - especially with an unknown past. It is always a risk however small.


I too have a rescue with no history and hope to have a family one day but have several toddler children in my extended family.

What i doubt here is that this animal was a 'rescue'

No 'rescue' would allow a dog of this size to a family with a young one- they just wouldn't


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Julesky said:


> I too have a rescue with no history and hope to have a family one day but have several toddler children in my extended family.
> 
> What i doubt here is that this animal was a 'rescue'
> 
> No 'rescue' would allow a dog of this size to a family with a young one- they just wouldn't


there are also suggestions it came from the pound! guess we'll just have to wait and see.
everything written at this moment is based on speculation, but on thing we can all be sure of the newspapers tomorrow will make it look bad for someone!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

SixStar said:


> Cannot believe people are suggesting there should be a prosecution *if* (nobody knows anything at this stage) a member of the family killed the dog. Good lord, I would have done absolutely _ANYTHING_ without a second thought to have got a dog off of one of my children.


I dont think anyone is suggesting this TBH. Im sure most people would do anything to try and rescue their child from an animal attack and nobody could blame them.
I was merely wondering if how the dog died might have helped give some reason as to why it attacked. If it were sick for example.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I rehomed a rescue - there were no facts to give me as he was a stray. I took a calculated risk. My son was 15 and 6 foot tall.
> 
> *I am not "blaming" anyone - but you would need to have been living in a cave for the last 15 years not to have some inkling about the ramifications of owning large, powerful dogs - especially with an unknown past. It is always a risk however small*.


Not sure who yer quoting on the ol' "blaming" BUT yeah obviously most people understand dogs are dogs/ some breeds like agility, some breeds like to chase, some like this and some like that, some are big some are small- etc. etc.

BUT so many people walk out wanting a dog , cause they've seen a well behaved dog with an owner, or seen a dog being a sweetie round at a friends house, or watched homeward bound- what i'm saying is people do not see or have no experience of knowing what it is like to own, raise and be responsible for a dog- and sometimes understanding it is a dog- it's an ignorance thing.

Hence rescues tend to focus on making potential owners aware of the work , commitment and responsibility that goes into a dog.

I really doubt in this day and age a 'rescue' would place this dog in this home.

It sounds more like it was a 'friend'

Who deserves to bear some responsibility at not making the family aware of what dog ownership involves


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Julesky said:


> I too have a rescue with no history and hope to have a family one day but have several toddler children in my extended family.
> 
> What i doubt here is that this animal was a 'rescue'
> 
> No 'rescue' would allow a dog of this size to a family with a young one- they just wouldn't


I get what you are saying - but as a parent the ultimate responsibility is mine.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Julesky said:


> OK will fill you in- first reports said rescue, some still saying rescue- others saying watched for friend.
> 
> Sincerely doubt /hope that no rescue would rehome a dog of this size with toddler.


And others say the dog came from the pound, so obviously nothing has been clarified yet  from what little I know of pounds, don't some just hand dogs over to the first person to wave cash at them?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

lurcherlad said:


> i get what you are saying - but as a parent the ultimate responsibility is mine.


100%...............


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I get what you are saying - but as a parent the ultimate responsibility is mine.


Totally agree most people would not take the gamble- but some people see animals as disney characters.

The ultimate responsibility is with the person who allowed the animal to be bred without having a safe, secure and competent home for it.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> And others say the dog came from the pound, so obviously nothing has been clarified yet  from what little I know of pounds, don't some just hand dogs over to the first person to wave cash at them?


Not sure- we don't have pounds here?

But! I still think responsibility lies with the people who breed any dog- most breeders worth their salt have dogs returned to them.

NOt everyone is dog savvy, people need to learn somewhere , be it privately by gently being told their circumstances do not suit their breed of choice or at a rescue.

This family were not protected, instead perhaps ( we'll see when more info comes out) the naivety was taken advantage of

ETA: By not protecting against naive owners- you are NOT protecting the dog either- no one's interests are being met


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Julesky said:


> Not sure- we don't have pounds here?
> 
> But! I still think responsibility lies with the people who breed any dog- most breeders worth their salt have dogs returned to them.
> 
> ...


I'd read the pound thing, too. We do have them here.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> And others say the dog came from the pound, so obviously nothing has been clarified yet  from what little I know of pounds, don't some just hand dogs over to the first person to wave cash at them?


They do, one the dogs times up they can be sold to anyone walking in no questions asked!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Snoringbear said:


> I'd read the pound thing, too. We do have them here.


In Scotland?

The only places you can buy a rescue from are SSPCA, dogs trust or the wee rescues.

I thought dog wardens had to hand over to one of these places or destroy after 7 days


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Julesky said:


> Not sure- we don't have pounds here?
> 
> But! I still think responsibility lies with the people who breed any dog- most breeders worth their salt have dogs returned to them.
> 
> ...


Very true, & as we know, not all rescues are equal, some are pretty abysmal, & then there's people who acquire dogs & pass them on, under the disguise of 'rescuing' them & then lie about the dog's temperament :frown2:


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I love dogs. 

But if a dog ever ibadly injured a child of mine I'd kill it. Same as if a human attacked. Mother Nature and all that. Your child is the most important. Can't believe anyone is querying the death of the dog. 

The child wasn't put down humanely!


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## shinra (Aug 9, 2013)

Those photos make me sick to the stomach, that poor poor beautiful child.
Why on earth would you take on such a dog of that size with unknown history and bring into a flat with young children? whyyyy? what part of that sounds like a good idea!??


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

Poor wee girl  Just terrible...

I read a discussion about this elsewhere, and disgustingly someone said that stabbing the dog to death is animal cruelty  Reading that boiled my blood, how can someone say something so horrible...



DT said:


> Six weeks they have had the dog yet is seems the little girl is left the 'wrestle' (OK heresay) with it! Sorry! but hardly the behaviour of either a responsible dog owner or a responsible mother it any of that is true!


I know you said 'if any of that is true' but... I don't know what articles etc you have read, but all the ones I have read have only mentioned the mother wrestling the dog to rescue her child... not that the child wrestled the dog...


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Julesky said:


> In Scotland?
> 
> The only places you can buy a rescue from are SSPCA, dogs trust or the wee rescues.
> 
> I thought dog wardens had to hand over to one of these places or destroy after 7 days


The pound is the place they go to or get killed in 7 days.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

News at 10 on ITV said the dog came from a charity, and the mother stabbed the dog to death, 
I understand people saying poor dog too, but none of this needed to happen, the child lost her life, and the dog did too, understandably any mother would do what she did to try to save her child, but in the right hands the dog needn't have died either
Whoever passed this dog on is partly responsible, plus the parents for getting such a big dog in a small flat with a young child, actually never mentioned the father


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

lozzibear said:


> Poor wee girl  Just terrible...
> 
> I read a discussion about this elsewhere, and disgustingly someone said that stabbing the dog to death is animal cruelty  Reading that boiled my blood, how can someone say something so horrible...
> 
> I know you said 'if any of that is true' but... I don't know what articles etc you have read, but all the ones I have read have only mentioned the mother wrestling the dog to rescue her child... not that the child wrestled the dog...


I beg your pardon Guess I misread it! just shows how these cases can get blown of proportion - sorry


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

jaycee05 said:


> Whoever passed this dog on is partly responsible, plus the parents for getting such a big dog in a small flat with a young child, actually never mentioned the father


Flats are flats - we don't know if it was small, and it must have had a garden, as mud was mentioned.

The main thing is, why was a big dog homed to a family with a small child?

Owner couldn't handle dog so probably didn't walk it, there is no mention of training, so we have a giant breed that is not getting what it needs in terms of exercise.

That is entirely apart from the question, Why would a parent with a young child want to get a dog in the first place? Many families have cats, rabbits, hamsters and goldfish and teach their children to respect them.

Have that respect in place and later on, a dog will be appropriate.

Not a large breed from unknown background... and potentially rehomed to a novice dog owner with a child.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

big dogs can and do live in small flats with small children very happily, but should never be unsupervised esp. if you have only had the dog 6wks
also to add that i dont know if they were unsupervised or not, horrible events can happen very quickly even when supervised

i liked the rest of your comment jaysee

i would kill any animal if i needed to protect myself or someone else if there was no other option


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> News at 10 on ITV said the dog came from a charity,


Guess there is still a lot of 'hearsay' surrounding where exactly the dog came from.
BUT, and I emphasize BUT, if this dog 'did' come from a charity there will be a lot of questions that need to be answered asked over the next few weeks!

And the sad thing is just more bad publicity to the larger breeds.


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## sweetcharity (Feb 21, 2012)

lostbear said:


> I was also concerned about this - I have a feeling that her dad (or another relative) has killed it.
> 
> I'm not trying to minimise the shock and horror of this poor baby's death, but if this dog has been killed cruelly, then there still needs to be a prosecution.


I think you need to rethink this post, if a dog was mauling my child id do anything possible to stop it. No prosecution is needed, what you have just said is ludicrous!!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Why would they prosecute someone for killing the dog? :shocked: The child was at least badly hurt they had to do whatever they could to get it off her. You can't exactly just pick up a ddb


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

jaycee05 said:


> News at 10 on ITV said the dog came from a charity, and the mother stabbed the dog to death,
> I understand people saying poor dog too, but none of this needed to happen, the child lost her life, and the dog did too, understandably any mother would do what she did to try to save her child, but in the right hands the dog needn't have died either
> Whoever passed this dog on is partly responsible, plus the parents for getting such a big dog in a small flat with a young child, actually never mentioned the father


What's your problem with a big dog and small children? You seem to be commenting on a breed you know nothing about.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

sweetcharity said:


> I think you need to rethink this post, if a dog was mauling my child id do anything possible to stop it. No prosecution is needed, what you have just said is ludicrous!!


Erm! hard one!!! We have laws in the UK surrounding animal welfare - and it is, or it most certainly was an offence to cause unessesary suffering to a animal, and you most certainly can't go and knife a dog to death! ! Remember the Doberman that was beaten to death for knocking a cup of coffee over! OK no comparison but we need these laws under NORMAL circumstances.

BUT!! that said!! I agree if in the position of this poor woman you would do anything possible to stop that attack - and no there should be no procescution.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Can't believe that anyone would be so stupid to bring a dog of that size and power with an unknown history into a home with young children. 

Really tragic.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Snoringbear said:


> What's your problem with a big dog and small children? You seem to be commenting on a breed you know nothing about.


Are people not allowed to voice their opinions now then? Because mine is pretty much the same! Big dog, unexperienced owners, small flat, no exercise, child allowed to lol around the dog that they have only had a short time!!! OK I may have got it terribly wrong but same thoughts will have crossed the minds of many!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

If they wanted to 'rescue' a dog why didn't they get a pup since they had a small child? I know many rescues are different in their re homing policies but if this dog was from a proper bone fide rescue then they have some questions to be answered. It sounds more likely it was done privately, like the pages on adoption in some of the free ads, some done directly from the previous owner who can say anything they like just to get shot of the dog. 

I, like Lurcherlad, would never have considered an adult rescue dog in my home while my children were growing up as you don't know its full history, or if what you've been told is the truth, even if assessed once in a strange home environment a dog can behave differently to anyone let alone a small child. People are far too trusting sometimes and unfortunately for this little girl the very worst scenario has occurred. 

RIP little one. xx


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> You can't exactly just pick up a ddb


Don't think it were a DDB,  a French mastiff think they labelling it.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

DT said:


> Don't think it were a DDB,  a French mastiff think they labelling it.


Same thing isn't it?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

labradrk said:


> Same thing isn't it?


Opps! yes sorry had a senior moment then! but yep believe they are known under the same name - was thinking mastiff sowwy NOT an expert on the breed but love the DDB .


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

DT said:


> Don't think it were a DDB,  a French mastiff think they labelling it.


Yes it's a DDB.
Yes it should probably not have been rehomed to the person who had it.

Who admitted she couldn't take it for a walk as it was too strong.... so I guess the dog took up knitting instead to keep its brain occupied?

When will people understand that dogs are not stuffed toys and not disposable?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

DT said:


> Guess there is still a lot of 'hearsay' surrounding where exactly the dog came from.
> BUT, and I emphasize BUT, *if this dog 'did' come from a charity there will be a lot of questions that need to be answered asked over the next few weeks!*
> And the sad thing is just more bad publicity to the larger breeds.


I hope so. And perhaps those who have commented so vehemently in the past about how rescues' rules are too strict may realise there is a reason for them having strict criteria.



Snoringbear said:


> What's your problem with a big dog and small children? You seem to be commenting on a breed you know nothing about.


I don't have a problem with big dogs and small children generally, but there is no way I would home one of my Labrador pups to someone who lives in a flat, much less a breed of this size.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

DT said:


> Are people not allowed to voice their opinions now then? Because mine is pretty much the same! Big dog, unexperienced owners, small flat, no exercise, child allowed to lol around the dog that they have only had a short time!!! OK I may have got it terribly wrong but same thoughts will have crossed the minds of many!


Yes they are, so don't be so hypocritical and criticise my opinion.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

DT said:


> Opps! yes sorry had a senior moment then! but yep believe they are known under the same name - was thinking mastiff sowwy NOT an expert on the breed but love the DDB .


Correct name is Dogue De Bordeaux, also referred to as French Mastiff although not a literal translation. Usually used by people who can't pronounce the French name.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> there is no way I would home one of my Labrador pups to someone who lives in a flat, much less a breed of this size.


There are flats and flats. This one had a garden - or where else would the mud have come from?

I have lived in several flats where I'd have been okayed to have a dog... and a large house where it wouldn't have worked.

Can we get over the Flat and focus instead on the human beings living with the dog and their part in the tragedy?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Snoringbear said:


> Yes they are, so don't be so hypocritical and criticise my opinion.


It was not my intension to appear hypocritical but your remark towards Jaycee came across as belittleing

no offence intended!


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

DT said:


> It was not my intension to appear hypocritical but your remark towards Jaycee came across as belittleing
> 
> no offence intended!


That's fine  my comment to Jaycee regarded an unanswered question, wasn't intended to be belittling. We've just both found ourselves misinterpreted


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Julesky said:


> In Scotland?
> 
> The only places you can buy a rescue from are SSPCA, dogs trust or the wee rescues.
> 
> I thought dog wardens had to hand over to one of these places or destroy after 7 days


Oh you do get pounds up here - my last boy came from the one in Edinburgh, the only checks they do are if you're in rented accommodation to make sure you're allowed a dog and they get you to bring in any existing dogs to meet the new one, other than that it is turn up and buy a dog.


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## MrG (Jul 16, 2013)

DT said:


> Are people not allowed to voice their opinions now then? Because mine is pretty much the same! Big dog, unexperienced owners, small flat, no exercise, child allowed to lol around the dog that they have only had a short time!!! OK I may have got it terribly wrong but same thoughts will have crossed the minds of many!


+1 
While I understand some owners of similar dogs will defend them on here, by definition they are exactly the sort of owners who probably *should* own such dogs (as in the news item) i.e. responsible owners. This doesnt change the fact though that time and time again we see stories like this in the news and more often than not it boils down to inappropriate people owning inappropriate dogs.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Malmum said:


> If they wanted to 'rescue' a dog why didn't they get a pup since they had a small child? I know many rescues are different in their re homing policies but if this dog was from a proper bone fide rescue then they have some questions to be answered. It sounds more likely it was done privately, like the pages on adoption in some of the free ads, some done directly from the previous owner who can say anything they like just to get shot of the dog.
> 
> I, like Lurcherlad, would never have considered an adult rescue dog in my home while my children were growing up as you don't know its full history, or if what you've been told is the truth, even if assessed once in a strange home environment a dog can behave differently to anyone let alone a small child. People are far too trusting sometimes and unfortunately for this little girl the very worst scenario has occurred.
> 
> RIP little one. xx


This is exactly why I will only take a puppy.as my own children were growing up we did have big dogs but only from a pup.it was a hard fast rule.

I thought once my children grew up and left then it would be time to maybe go for a breed that needed more from me.....possibly as an adult rescue.....and then came grand children..so, only a pup here for us.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

tabulahrasa said:


> Oh you do get pounds up here - my last boy came from the one in Edinburgh, the only checks they do are if you're in rented accommodation to make sure you're allowed a dog and they get you to bring in any existing dogs to meet the new one, other than that it is turn up and buy a dog.


Genuinely never knew that at all. Who runs them, council?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Julesky said:


> Not sure- we don't have pounds here?
> 
> But! I still think responsibility lies with the people who breed any dog- most breeders worth their salt have dogs returned to them.
> 
> ...


How many people who decide for whatever reason to rehome their dog go back to the original breeder and try to do this?

One of my daughters bought a puppy a couple of weeks ago.She did her research on a breed she knows a lot about. She found the pup, she had to travel 300 miles. She researched the pedigree.Somebody she knows also decided they wanted a pup too to go with their adult of the same breed.

My daughter had this pup for not quite 4 weeks, she rang me last night....really upset cos this other woman has advertised her puppy on FB for £100 more than she paid for it..says the dogs are not getting along.The breeder doesn't even know about it..how many times does this happen?Pups are 12 weeks old.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Snoringbear said:


> The pound is the place they go to or get killed in 7 days.


Didn't think you were allowed to rehome from there- never heard of it up here before now


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Julesky said:


> Yeah I know BUT we don't have all the facts, loads of families go looking for pets, naively ... yeah- we can't expect everyone to know straight off- that's why rescues invest so much into matching dogs / cats to families/owners.
> 
> These people deserved to have been given as much knowledge as possible.
> 
> ...


DDB....lovely dogs....how much research did this family do before getting their dog?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Didn't think you were allowed to rehome from there- never heard of it up here before now


Our pound only place dogs with genuine rescue centres, reason being exactly as this, they DONT do home checks.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Spudulicious said:


> I do hope no rescue centre rehomed a mastiff to a family with a young child in a flat. That would be negligent. I have nothing against mastiffs, but they are powerful dogs even with grown men, never mind little children! I do hope this wasn't the case. Poor child. Her family must be devastated


We have a Bullmastiff...gorgeous dog, very powerful, very gentle....no aggression towards kids at all, just a lovely dog. I would never rehome her if we couldn't deal with her, she would have to be PTS. May sound harsh but I wouldn't want somebody taking her on and a tragedy like this happening....even though she has never shown any aggression at all .


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> How many people who decide for whatever reason to rehome their dog go back to the original breeder and try to do this?
> 
> One of my daughters bought a puppy a couple of weeks ago.She did her research on a breed she knows a lot about. She found the pup, she had to travel 300 miles. She researched the pedigree.Somebody she knows also decided they wanted a pup too to go with their adult of the same breed.
> 
> My daughter had this pup for not quite 4 weeks, she rang me last night....really upset cos this other woman has advertised her puppy on FB for £100 more than she paid for it..says the dogs are not getting along.The breeder doesn't even know about it..how many times does this happen?Pups are 12 weeks old.


Probably alllllll the time.

Because they won't get their money back.

One of the resons why free ads etc. are hooching with unwanted pups


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> DDB....lovely dogs....how much research did this family do before getting their dog?


No idea. But if the dog was a 'rescue' serious questions need to be asked.

People walk into rescues all the time- expecting the people in the know to assist them in their choice.

Many people will just have covered a) everyone in family wanting a dog
b) who' s going to walk it
c) where it sleeps
d) what it eats
e) Budget for one/time they have to spend with it in the house

In fact many people may not even have gotten that far- rescues try to place dogs in 'forever' homes with a responsibility - a heavy one at that- to pace the right dog with the right family.

Breeders should have the same obligations/ priorities and many, many do.

This family may have been naïve/stupid but who advised them on taking this dog.

It's quoted she was saying , 'they said it was safe around kids'

novice owners/ naïve- should have been fully informed by whomever gave them this grown animal


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> Poor little girl, RIP. This seems to be happening too often, people get a new dog then almost immeadietly trust it with their kids.
> Why dont they learn?


We have a Bullmastiff, got her as a 9 week old puppy from a reputable breeder. Dog is just gorgeous, everything you could want and absolutely adores children..loves babies, real softie.

She is 2 now, I still don't leave her in a room or outdoors on her own with my grandchildren.

If children start to get too noisy, too boisterous, I put the dog away.either outside or in her crate and shut the door.

These attacks are so fast and so brutal, to leave the dog in one room and me be in another room. into another is too long.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> We have a Bullmastiff...gorgeous dog, very powerful, very gentle....no aggression towards kids at all, just a lovely dog. I would never rehome her if we couldn't deal with her, she would have to be PTS. May sound harsh but I wouldn't want somebody taking her on and a tragedy like this happening....even though she has never shown any aggression at all .


That is exactly the same as I said about my eldest due to the number of issues we had with him with men when we had him initially (he was terrified and would bite) He;s 13 now and seems steady but we *still* take precauctions with strange men, for his own good as well as others. He was always great with little people and woman though and people always said I was 'cruel' to say that.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Apart from the obvious severity of this attack what shocked me most is that DDB's can be that big................ never seen one much bigger than a boxer before- although always more muscular etc.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Now people are calling for ALL dogs to be muzzled around children under 12


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Guardian quoting a neighbour says- 'I hardly ever saw it out, she always kept it in'

While daily mail says mum had signed up to website where people buy and sell dogs


Just offering this information. Often there is a flurry of (mixed) info in these cases and then you don't hear much else.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Everytime there is a dog attack everyone jumps on the band wagon and having dogs muzzled etc. Some people were comments putting the breed on the dangerous dogs act... you always get the extremists


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Guardian quoting a neighbour says- 'I hardly ever saw it out, she always kept it in'
> 
> While daily mail says mum had signed up to website where people buy and sell dogs
> 
> Just offering this information. Often there is a flurry of (mixed) info in these cases and then you don't hear much else.


The media are already dressing is up, a spokesperson on TV suggested this morning that is was an act of kindness (rehoming the dog) That went terribly wrong.
Suspect we will hear a lot more before its all put to bed.

dog haters will be rubbing their hands again!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Here's an example of the type of free-ads people can class as rehoming. The dog in the attack was called Moulin, rehomed 2 months ago- pure speculation.

ADULT FEMALE DOGUE DE BORDEAUX FOR SALE | Hayes, Middlesex | Pets4Homes


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Julesky said:


> Genuinely never knew that at all. Who runs them, council?


The Edinburgh one is a charity - but it's where all the strays are taken.

The dog I got there had been picked up as a stray as a little puppy, sold and returned at about 4 months old...but that's literally all the history they were able to give me and was more than they could tell me about most of the dogs there.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

tabulahrasa said:


> The Edinburgh one is a charity - but it's where all the strays are taken.
> 
> The dog I got there had been picked up as a stray as a little puppy, sold and returned at about 4 months old...but that's literally all the history they were able to give me and was more than they could tell me about most of the dogs there.


Ah I see. Same with mine- stray so no info. Pound to me I always imagined council ran and as far as I'm aware council wardens/police wait the 7 days then they are either passed to charities or euthanized


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Snoringbear said:


> What's your problem with a big dog and small children? You seem to be commenting on a breed you know nothing about.


Oh, very SORRY, I have no problem with big dogs, I think you are being a bit over sensitive, as you have one I can see your point at being annoyed, 
Maybe I worded it wrong, I meant bringing a big dog in with no experience ] just that it was an adult which had been abused in the past, and not knowing its background to live with a small child, a puppy would have been better
The dog had apparently been badly abused in the past and was covered in scars
An animal behaviourist was on the radio this morning saying she had been in rescue for 20 years, and would never rehome a dog of that size and breed, with a small child, [not saying anything wrong with the breed] in case you want to jump down my throat again, but a dog like that who had been abused in the past, she said no one person was to blame, the rescue and the parents between them were wrong


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Julesky said:


> Ah I see. Same with mine- stray so no info. Pound to me I always imagined council ran and as far as I'm aware council wardens/police wait the 7 days then they are either passed to charities or euthanized


In some areas they go to other rescue organisations after the 7 days - in Edinburgh they keep them and rehome them themselves.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

So many different accounts of what has happened This morning on TV they were saying the little girl was in bed with her mum next to her she went for an afternoon nap after school and that's when the dog attacked her
Then the mum so they are saying ran into the kitchen got a knife and started stabbing the dog to get the dog off her little girl 
She tried to get its mouth open but she could not hence getting the knife 
Terrible for everyone as it seems the mum lived alone with the little girl she is her only child .
I guess more will come out later


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Julesky said:


> Here's an example of the type of free-ads people can class as rehoming. The dog in the attack was called Moulin, rehomed 2 months ago- pure speculation.
> 
> ADULT FEMALE DOGUE DE BORDEAUX FOR SALE | Hayes, Middlesex | Pets4Homes


So much about that article doesn't make sense....she qualified for Crufts with every show she entered, yet she has only been showing for a year....but then doesn't get on with ANY other dog 

For a start, if she was that good a show dog then why the hell are they having to resort to the free adds?????

I just hope she finds the right home...

As for the original post, my feelings are with the little girls family...but I do wish the media would shut the feck up until they know the actual facts...but then where would we be without a media $hitfest :frown2:


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## kateh8888 (Aug 9, 2011)

Very tragic.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

StormyThai said:


> So much about that article doesn't make sense....she qualified for Crufts with every show she entered, yet she has only been showing for a year....but then doesn't get on with ANY other dog
> 
> For a start, if she was that good a show dog then why the hell are they having to resort to the free adds?????
> 
> ...


ST- I'm of course speculating but that dog was sold, 2 months ago.......

Reports are saying they had the dog 8 weeks and called her Moulin.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Sorry if this has already been posted, this is from Dogs Today

_Full police statement:

Investigations are continuing into the circumstances that led to a four year old girl being attacked and killed by the family dog.

Leicestershire Police is able to confirm, on behalf of the Coroner, that the girl's name is Lexi Branson.

Police were called to a flat in Rowena Court in Mountsorrel at about 12.14pm yesterday afternoon (Tuesday November 5) following reports that a four year old girl had been injured after she was attacked by a dog. She was taken to the Queens Medical Centre in Nottingham where she sadly died.

Tests are being carried out today to establish the exact breed of the dog but at this stage it is not believed to be a breed listed under Section 1 of the Dangerous Dogs Act. *We can confirm however that the dog being investigated is not the one in the picture that is being widely circulated in the media.*_


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Gemmaa said:


> Sorry if this has already been posted, this is from Dogs Today
> 
> _Full police statement:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info Gemmaa


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Thats a bit odd isnt it gemmaa?


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I've heard that the DDB belongs to the uncle.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

It is disgusting that the gutterpress are circulating a picture of a dog that could be miles apart from the one actually involved!


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

DT said:


> It is disgusting that the gutterpress are circulating a picture of a dog that could be miles apart from the one actually involved!


The DDB Groups on Facebook aren't pleased with this. There have already been several accounts of owners being verbally abused for having a dangerous dog and dog owners they were previously friendly with staying away from them.

I felt a bit paranoid this morning walking my DDBs


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Media bullsh*t at its best- pluck a breed out of thin air, then attach a pic of the child with a dog, any dog............

I'd be really angry if i was this kids mother at the lies being spread about..... I'd also be pretty peeved if i was this mystery dogs owner....


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Julesky said:


> ST- I'm of course speculating but that dog was sold, 2 months ago.......
> 
> Reports are saying they had the dog 8 weeks and called her Moulin.


hmmm....

There is so much that doesn't add up here, the only real facts we have is a poor girl lost her life in the most horrific way and the dog lost her life due to human failure :frown2:

It's just so sad all around...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Snoringbear said:


> The DDB Groups on Facebook aren't pleased with this. There have already been several accounts of owners being verbally abused for having a dangerous dog and dog owners they were previously friendly with staying away from them.
> 
> I felt a bit paranoid this morning walking my DDBs


That's terrible! But sadly doubt we will get either a retraction nor a apology from the press, and besides the damage is already done no to the DDB breed.
We should bombarde the newspapers with our annoyance at them tarring the breed.


----------



## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Police confirmation. Not a DDB.

Death of four year old girl in Mountsorrel - name confirmed | Leicestershire Police


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Snoringbear said:


> Police confirmation. Not a DDB.
> 
> Death of four year old girl in Mountsorrel - name confirmed | Leicestershire Police


Am I missing something?

it does not say it was not a DDB- just that the dog pictured with the little girl is not the actual dog that killed her......


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> Now people are calling for ALL dogs to be muzzled around children under 12


I heard this, this morning. From the way they were talking this also included keeping dogs muzzled around the home, which is simply unrealistic.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SirHiss said:


> I heard this, this morning. From the way they were talking this also included keeping dogs muzzled around the home, which is simply unrealistic.


There was talk of that a few months ago.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

DT said:


> There was talk of that a few months ago.


Seems a very cruel thing, having to keep a dog muzzled 24/7 just because you have under 12's. It's no life for a dog. I think if that were to ever happen, would have to be the day I gave up dog ownership out of sheer love and respect for my dogs 

I have nothing against muzzles, they have their purpose, but to have to muzzle your dogs in your home because you have young children, just sounds so wrong to me


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## MrG (Jul 16, 2013)

DT said:


> There was talk of that a few months ago.


And it'll all die down again until the next time. As long as you have inappropriate people owning inappropriate dogs this will continue. I really don't see a way out of this other making the purchase of dogs much harder and lots of rules and regulations that are actually enforced. Having said that there are lots of other criminal activities besides contravening such regulations which will be deemed as a higher priority, so I'd imagine the situation we are in now will continue.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SirHiss said:


> Seems a very cruel thing, having to keep a dog muzzled 24/7 just because you have under 12's. It's no life for a dog. I think if that were to ever happen, would have to be the day I gave up dog ownership out of sheer love and respect for my dogs
> 
> I have nothing against muzzles, they have their purpose, but to have to muzzle your dogs in your home because you have young children, just sounds so wrong to me


My thoughts are exactly the same!
Would be easy for me though there would be NO under twelves welcome into my house! As there is no way I would muzzle my dogs inside my own four walls.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> I hope so. And perhaps those who have commented so vehemently in the past about how rescues' rules are too strict may realise there is a reason for them having strict criteria.


This! The rescues often have these rules about young children in place for a reason, & yes, they may seem harsh to some, but if they prevent even one tragedy like this, then they're worth it.



Julesky said:


> Guardian quoting a neighbour says- 'I hardly ever saw it out, she always kept it in'
> 
> While daily mail says mum had signed up to website where people buy and sell dogs
> 
> Just offering this information. Often there is a flurry of (mixed) info in these cases and then you don't hear much else.


As in so many of these dog attack cases, there is so much hearsay, a media outcry & then everything dies down & questions about the actual facts are never properly disclosed.



Snoringbear said:


> The DDB Groups on Facebook aren't pleased with this. There have already been several accounts of owners being verbally abused for having a dangerous dog and dog owners they were previously friendly with staying away from them.
> 
> I felt a bit paranoid this morning walking my DDBs


How awful  society doesn't condemn all men when one man murders a child, why do the same with DDBs



SirHiss said:


> I heard this, this morning. From the way they were talking this also included keeping dogs muzzled around the home, which is simply unrealistic.


Not to mention in direct conflict with the Animal Welfare Act.

Good to see you back BTW


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

That poor little girl. What an awful and sickening thing to happen to her. I can't imagine how scared she must have been in her last moments. 

I don't know much on the story, there seems to be misinformation flying about everywhere on the breed and where it came from.
My only thought really is that it shows why only the professionals should decide where and when a dog gets rehomed, especially to those with children. Those who take on a dog and then pass it around again are being reckless with these animals.


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## MrG (Jul 16, 2013)

Snoringbear said:


> The DDB Groups on Facebook aren't pleased with this. There have already been several accounts of owners being verbally abused for having a dangerous dog and dog owners they were previously friendly with staying away from them.
> 
> I felt a bit paranoid this morning walking my DDBs


That's just ignorant/stupid people though - suddenly because a dog of the same breed happened to be implicated in the latest story they decided to give you a wide berth? Did they not know prior to this the history of such a breed?

And as for people who don't know you and your dog...I'm sorry but even though it's obvious you are a responsible owner who probably has an extremely well adjusted and lovely DDB, I can understand why they'd be a bit wary. I would. But I'm sure you knew this before you even bought your dog.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> That poor little girl. What an awful and sickening thing to happen to her. I can't imagine how scared she must have been in her last moments.
> 
> I don't know much on the story, there seems to be misinformation flying about everywhere on the breed and where it came from.
> My only thought really is that it shows why only the professionals should decide where and when a dog gets rehomed, especially to those with children. *Those who take on a dog and then pass it around again are being reckless with these animals.*


Totally, they will be exascerbating any existing issues with the dog, & possibly creating new ones, & then being either economical with the truth or outright lying just to get shot of them 

These stories really hit home about the problem with too many dogs being badly bred, indiscriminately, & then passed from pillar to post, because people expect their dog to fit in around their lives instead of rethinking their lives to accommodate the dog's needs


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Death of four year old girl in Mountsorrel - name confirmed | Leicestershire Police

At first the media said it was a dogue de bordeaux, now however it's a different dog.
Leicester girl dies after being bitten by dog in Mountsorrel | Mail Online


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

shetlandlover said:


> Death of four year old girl in Mountsorrel - name confirmed | Leicestershire Police
> 
> At first the media said it was a dogue de bordeaux, now however it's a different dog.
> Leicester girl dies after being bitten by dog in Mountsorrel | Mail Online


This sort of thing just goes to prove you can not believe ANYTHING printed in the newspapers......... :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

If the report is true, the mother was in bed comforting her daughter who was off school ill, so when was the dog able to be exercised and not even a garden to go out in either. Was the mother playing with Lexi and the dog initially joined in the 'game' getting carried away due to pent up energy? I cannot understand what kind of rescue would have homed this dog to that environment, the mother may have been lovely, as with her daughter but in reality that dog needs a good couple of hours exercise EVERY day and as a single parent with a sickly child at times that just would not have been possible. Not only were the home conditions unsuitable but the family were too, no matter how nice they may seem the dog has to be taken into account, there is no way I would have homed one of my pups to a home like this, let alone a previously abused, fully grown dog of such proportions. 

I hope the powers that be look into rescues now because on facebook it seems all you have to do is go abroad, pick up a couple of dogs of completely unknown history and call yourself a rescuer - surely there's more to it than that and this rescue shows that incompetence in their re homing process has had horrendous consequences. Wherever a dog comes from there should be regulations on the whole re homing/assessment process IMO. 

Poor child, terrible, avoidable tragedy.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Pics now of a different dog

Leicester girl dies after being bitten by dog in Mountsorrel | Mail Online


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Snoringbear said:


> Pics now of a different dog
> 
> Leicester girl dies after being bitten by dog in Mountsorrel | Mail Online


Awh! so the dog has had a complete makeover since yesterday then
along with the description - yesterday it was NOT suspected to have been one of the banned breeds! today there is a good chance it could have been!

and they call themselves a bloody newspaper! shame on them!! and their scummy reporters -Would get more accurate news from the beano me thinks!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Outstanding media whipping people into a frenzy again!


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## Ann Elizabeth (May 12, 2013)

Snoringbear said:


> Pics now of a different dog
> 
> Leicester girl dies after being bitten by dog in Mountsorrel | Mail Online


Different dog and two scenarios in the same story - She was in bed with her mum when the dog attacked or playing with the dog when it turned and attacked her ............??????????
Too much speculation and not enough fact about what happened. To all PF members who own these wonderful large breeds, I hope the scaremongering by the media dies down quickly and people disregard the photo's claiming to be the dog that attacked the little girl.
I do think that whoever sold rehomed this dog has some questions to answer, it may be that they did everything right, but they may have to relook at their rehoming policy.


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

How very tragic! Am I right in thinking they lived in a small flat? Why would a huge dog be rehomed in a small flat? I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. RIP poor child.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Whever something like this happens people become wary of a dog the same breed they see in the street,i had a German Shepherd a long time ago, but at that time they were being classed as devil dogs, , but she was lovely, same with any dog, its the owners NOT the dog who is at fault for not training or looking after the dog properly[usually ]then came Rottweillers, and they were avoided like the plague, and I must admit I didn't like passing one,
I think its disgusting what the papers have done with the picture they put in the their papers, causing hysteria about that breed of dog, and misleading everyone


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Reading the updated mail story...the organization who have confirmed they rehomed the dog with them are the people with the council contract to take in stray dogs.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Malmum said:


> If the report is true, the mother was in bed comforting her daughter who was off school ill, so when was the dog able to be exercised and not even a garden to go out in either. Was the mother playing with Lexi and the dog initially joined in the 'game' getting carried away due to pent up energy? I cannot understand what kind of rescue would have homed this dog to that environment, the mother may have been lovely, as with her daughter but in reality that dog needs a good couple of hours exercise EVERY day and as a single parent with a sickly child at times that just would not have been possible. Not only were the home conditions unsuitable but the family were too, no matter how nice they may seem the dog has to be taken into account, there is no way I would have homed one of my pups to a home like this, let alone a previously abused, fully grown dog of such proportions.
> 
> *I hope the powers that be look into rescues now because on facebook it seems all you have to do is go abroad, pick up a couple of dogs of completely unknown history and call yourself a rescuer* - surely there's more to it than that and this rescue shows that incompetence in their re homing process has had horrendous consequences. Wherever a dog comes from there should be regulations on the whole re homing/assessment process IMO.
> 
> Poor child, terrible, avoidable tragedy.


What on earth has dogs coming here from abroad got to do with it? 

I very much doubt that dog came over from abroad so that comment is completely irrelevant :frown2: there's plenty of downright awful 'rescues' over here, & people in this country who pick up dogs indiscriminately & then pass them on while pretending their motives are altruistic


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

DT said:


> Awh! so the dog has had a complete makeover since yesterday then
> along with the description - yesterday it was NOT suspected to have been one of the banned breeds! today there is a good chance it could have been!
> 
> and they call themselves a bloody newspaper! shame on them!! and their scummy reporters -Would get more accurate news from the beano me thinks!


If I were the owner of a DDB then I would be feeling extremely angry right now. Total miss-reporting.


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## alan g a (Feb 23, 2011)

I haven't read all of this thread so forgive me if this has already been said. The dog as been identifyed as a Bull Mastiff. Not the kind of dog that I would leave alone with a 4 year old, but then what do I know.

RIP little one.
My heart goes out to you and your family.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Malmum said:


> If the report is true, the mother was in bed comforting her daughter who was off school ill, so when was the dog able to be exercised and not even a garden to go out in either. Was the mother playing with Lexi and the dog initially joined in the 'game' getting carried away due to pent up energy? I cannot understand what kind of rescue would have homed this dog to that environment, the mother may have been lovely, as with her daughter but in reality that dog needs a good couple of hours exercise EVERY day and as a single parent with a sickly child at times that just would not have been possible. Not only were the home conditions unsuitable but the family were too, no matter how nice they may seem the dog has to be taken into account, there is no way I would have homed one of my pups to a home like this, let alone a previously abused, fully grown dog of such proportions.
> 
> *I hope the powers that be look into rescues now because on facebook it seems all you have to do is go abroad, pick up a couple of dogs of completely unknown history and call yourself a rescuer* - surely there's more to it than that and this rescue shows that incompetence in their re homing process has had horrendous consequences. Wherever a dog comes from there should be regulations on the whole re homing/assessment process IMO.
> 
> Poor child, terrible, avoidable tragedy.


I can understand where you are going with all the "rescues" and free add pages on fb, however, what the hell has dogs abroad have to do with this?
Oh that's right, nothing, the dog was most likely from the UK


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> What on earth has dogs coming here from abroad got to do with it?
> 
> I very much doubt that dog came over from abroad so that comment is completely irrelevant :frown2: there's plenty of downright awful 'rescues' over here, & people in this country who pick up dogs indiscriminately & then pass them on while pretending their motives are altruistic


Think what malmum was trying to get across was that ANYONE can rescue dogs from overseas then pass them off here as rescues, Hence there are more and more so called rescurers setting up,many whom are nothing more then do gooders, hearts in the right place but common sense lacking!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

DT said:


> Thik what malmum was trying to get across was that ANYONE can rescue dogs from overseas then pass them off here as rescues,


Which is completely irrelevant in this case


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I can't find the quote, but with the issue of rescue rehoming policies... surely, it would be much better for rescues to rehome assessed dogs sensibly to families than that family go out and buy an unknown animal for £50 off FB or something. 

These incidents are very rare and usually, IMO, caused by the dogs needs not being met (ie. never walked, never trained, fed cheap cr*p etc. ).


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

That does not look like a 'rescue' to me at all- looks like a business


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> Which is completely irrelevant in this case


Not when its questioning the abilities of those involved in rescuing and rehoming it isn't!


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

rose said:


> How very tragic! Am I right in thinking they lived in a small flat? Why would a huge dog be rehomed in a small flat? I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. RIP poor child.


I have a Bullmastiff.and she is a big heavy one as most of them are.

I am in an isolated farmhouse, no street lights, no nearby neighbours and closest town is 7 miles away.

She is here as a guard dog for when my husband is working away.

My outline circumstances and living etc are totally different to the family here in question but I can go to sleep at night when I am on my own and know nobody will break into my house.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

alan g a said:


> I haven't read all of this thread so forgive me if this has already been said. The dog as been identifyed as a Bull Mastiff. Not the kind of dog that I would leave alone with a 4 year old, but then what do I know.
> 
> RIP little one.
> My heart goes out to you and your family.


The dog hasn't been identified yet, or at least released by the police. The pictures in the media don't show a Bullmastiff.

A four year old should not be left alone with any dog.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Julesky said:


> That does not look like a 'rescue' to me at all- looks like a business


If you go on their website - there's a link to another page, which is rehoming the stray dogs brought there by the council and it tells you it's a new venture and that they have the council contract.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Not particuarly sensitive.

Mother of dog attack victim under investigation - Telegraph


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> If I were the owner of a DDB then I would be feeling extremely angry right now. Total miss-reporting.


We are. I doubt it will be set straight.


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## scruffymutt (Jan 11, 2013)

I think what malmum was trying to get at was that anyone these days can obtain a dog from whatever background and rehome it and call themselfs a rescue, regardless of what checks they have done on the dog or the family they are homing it with. I don't think she ment this dog had come from abroad, just picking out a situation that seems to be on the increase, especially on Facebook, where people ate portraying themselves as rescues but are possibly doing more harm than good


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## alan g a (Feb 23, 2011)

Snoringbear said:


> The dog hasn't been identified yet, or at least released by the police. The pictures in the media don't show a Bullmastiff.
> 
> A four year old should not be left alone with any dog.


Agreed. As for the breed. I was only going by what was said on Today earlier this AM. I can only say what I hear/read. My appologies if I am wrong.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Snoringbear said:


> Not particuarly sensitive.
> 
> Mother of dog attack victim under investigation - Telegraph


But, given the introduction of the new law, the police have a duty to make enquiries.

If the new law stops people from taking in potentially unpredictable and dangerous dogs, because they don't want to face the music when it all goes pear-shaped, then it can only be a good thing IMO.

Up until now, certain people would take the attitude that they would go unpunished - so didn't give a damn and took the unacceptable risks. Now, facing a possible long jail sentence may be enough to deter some.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

maybe but this mother has paid the ultimate price and should be given time to grieve.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

Interesting, rescue dog came from has now been named according to the telegraph.



> Family friends said Ms Hudson, 30, had been told the dog was safe around children when she picked it up from the *Orchard Kennels and Cattery, in Barrow-upon-Soar*, Leics, two months ago.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

If you actually read it though - all the police have said is that they will be investigating all the circumstances...it's just the headline that seems to want to investigate the mother specifically.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Again everyone is jumping the gun about the dog coming from rescue, it's not been confirmed!! It sound more likely the dog was from a pound? No rehoming procedures in place in most dog pound, it's either rehomed ASAP if it's surrendered pounds no obliged to keep surrenders they can either be rehomed or pts same day, strays they legally have to keep for 7 days they either regime or pts! No home checks no restriction no assessment ( although dogs who act aggressive are generally pts) you pay your money and you take your chances!

The kennel named are acting as a pound for the council NOT a rescue :http://www.orchardkennelsandcatteryleicestershire.com/id5.html


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> But, given the introduction of the new law, the police have a duty to make enquiries.
> 
> If the new law stops people from taking in potentially unpredictable and dangerous dogs, because they don't want to face the music when it all goes pear-shaped, then it can only be a good thing IMO.
> 
> Up until now, certain people would take the attitude that they would go unpunished - so didn't give a damn and took the unacceptable risks. Now, facing a possible long jail sentence may be enough to deter some.


New law doesn't come into effect till Spring next year. Even if it was in effect now, I'm extremely doubtful it would have made any difference whatsoever.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SirHiss said:


> Interesting, rescue dog came from has now been named according to the telegraph.


Boarding kennels, Cockapoo breeders, and now taking dogs from the pound for rehoming!
Irons in fire springs to mind!


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> maybe but this mother has paid the ultimate price and should be given time to grieve.


Agreed. You put it better than I did.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DT said:


> Think what malmum was trying to get across was that ANYONE can rescue dogs from overseas then pass them off here as rescues, Hence there are more and more so called rescurers setting up,many whom are nothing more then do gooders, hearts in the right place but common sense lacking!


Oh I know they can, I just don't believe this is the case here.

I know a lot of people involved in rescue from abroad (also met my fair share of those in it for the money rather than the dogs, so can see both sides!) & the types of dogs I see brought over are mainly hound/collie/GSD/spitz/spaniel type dogs, there are very few sighthounds & bull breeds.

Not sure why this is but at a guess I'd say those types were not historically populous at the time of Ceaucescu's reign & the mass abandonment of pet dogs in Romania.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Again everyone is jumping the gun about the dog coming from rescue, it's not been confirmed!! It sound more likely the dog was from a pound? No rehoming procedures in place in most dog pound, it's either rehomed ASAP if it's surrendered pounds no obliged to keep surrenders they can either be rehomed or pts same day, strays they legally have to keep for 7 days they either regime or pts! No home checks no restriction no assessment ( although dogs who act aggressive are generally pts) you pay your money and you take your chances!


It is a dog pound.



> Willow Tree is a new venture at Orchard Kennels.
> Leicester City Council have a contract with us whereby strays found in the LCC area are brought to the kennels.
> We have a dedicated kennel block and kennel assistants for these dogs and if they are unclaimed after 7 days, they are available for rehoming.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> maybe but this mother has paid the ultimate price and should be given time to grieve.


The process of the law does not allow time for that.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

yes, agree with you there too .


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

At the end of the day, this little girl lost her life, so did the dog. The mother has to live every day for the rest of her life with this knowledge. Unbearable torture for her I'd say.

I'm still unsure what breed it was, I've seen pictures of DDB with the girl but understand that was not the dog. Once again, the media are scaremongering the public. 

What ever, who ever, this is a dreadful situation, but, I bet it won't be the last, sadly.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Mail says the dog was possibly 'spooked' by fireworks


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> Mail says the dog was possibly 'spooked' by fireworks


The Mail needs to relaunch itself!
As a joke book!
But hang on! it ain't funny - would be better used as bog roll!


----------



## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Again everyone is jumping the gun about the dog coming from rescue, it's not been confirmed!! It sound more likely the dog was from a pound? No rehoming procedures in place in most dog pound, it's either rehomed ASAP if it's surrendered pounds no obliged to keep surrenders they can either be rehomed or pts same day, strays they legally have to keep for 7 days they either regime or pts! No home checks no restriction no assessment ( although dogs who act aggressive are generally pts) you pay your money and you take your chances!
> 
> The kennel named are acting as a pound for the council NOT a rescue :Willow Tree Rehoming Centre


Acts as everything from the looks of things. Breeding multiple litters, offering stud services, whelping services, ultra sound scanning..

Welcome to Brackenmoss.com

Just follow the link to their litter advertised on the Willow Tree site. All the details are there.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

DT said:


> The Mail needs to relaunch itself!
> As a joke book!
> But hang on! it ain't funny - would be better used as bog roll!


I use it to line the rats' litter trays  so as good as bog roll really!


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

DT said:


> The Mail needs to relaunch itself!
> As a joke book!
> But hang on! it ain't funny - would be better used as bog roll!


you mean it isn't already?lol


----------



## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

Are there any actual facts yet?

I keep reading different things in different papers. It seems they are all guessing.


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

lostbear said:


> If that's right, then I agree fair enough. It's just that some years ago a doberman was kicked to death by its owner because it knocked a hot cup of coffee off a table and scaled a toddler. It's always stuck in my mind.
> 
> Looking at the pics of the dog (which I have just seen) I wouldn't be surprised if killing this dog was the only way the police could stop it.





Malmum said:


> If the report is true, the mother was in bed comforting her daughter who was off school ill, so when was the dog able to be exercised and not even a garden to go out in either. Was the mother playing with Lexi and the dog initially joined in the 'game' getting carried away due to pent up energy? I cannot understand what kind of rescue would have homed this dog to that environment, the mother may have been lovely, as with her daughter but in reality that dog needs a good couple of hours exercise EVERY day and as a single parent with a sickly child at times that just would not have been possible. Not only were the home conditions unsuitable but the family were too, no matter how nice they may seem the dog has to be taken into account, there is no way I would have homed one of my pups to a home like this, let alone a *previously abused*, fully grown dog of such proportions.
> 
> I hope the powers that be look into rescues now because on facebook it seems all you have to do is go abroad, pick up a couple of dogs of completely unknown history and call yourself a rescuer - surely there's more to it than that and this rescue shows that incompetence in their re homing process has had horrendous consequences. Wherever a dog comes from there should be regulations on the whole re homing/assessment process IMO.
> 
> Poor child, terrible, avoidable tragedy.


How do you know the dog was previously abused?


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Jazmine said:


> Are there any actual facts yet?
> 
> I keep reading different things in different papers. It seems they are all guessing.


The only facts that are 100% are that a child and a dog have lost their lives in horrific ways :frown2:

Everything else is just speculation :mad2:


----------



## springfieldbean (Sep 13, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Again everyone is jumping the gun about the dog coming from rescue, it's not been confirmed!! It sound more likely the dog was from a pound? No rehoming procedures in place in most dog pound, it's either rehomed ASAP if it's surrendered pounds no obliged to keep surrenders they can either be rehomed or pts same day, strays they legally have to keep for 7 days they either regime or pts! No home checks no restriction no assessment ( although dogs who act aggressive are generally pts) you pay your money and you take your chances!
> 
> The kennel named are acting as a pound for the council NOT a rescue :Willow Tree Rehoming Centre


Obv don't know how trustworthy it is, but there's a comment on the DM story now from someone who says she knows the family, and that they got the dog from a rescue who said he/she was great with kids.

I thought that most rescues didn't rehome to homes with young children so it does surprise me that this happened if it was a responsible rehoming centre.

I can't imagine how the mum will ever get over this, the trauma must be horrific.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

springfieldbean said:


> Obv don't know how trustworthy it is, but there's a comment on the DM story now from someone who says she knows the family, and that they got the dog from a rescue who said he/she was great with kids.
> 
> I thought that most rescues didn't rehome to homes with young children so it does surprise me that this happened if it was a responsible rehoming centre.
> 
> I can't imagine how the mum will ever get over this, the trauma must be horrific.


It's a dog pound, which operate totally differently from a dog rescue.

The owner of the pound has been approached and passed comment, that they can't comment for legal reasons, so at least it has been confirmed the dog did actually come from THAT pound.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

The rehoming centre mentions worming, de-fleaing, microchipping but nothing at all about neutering.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> The rehoming centre mentions worming, de-fleaing, microchipping but nothing at all about neutering.


I noticed that too. One of mine come from the pound, we were given vouchers to go towards the cost of neutering, wasn't a great deal, something like £20 off towards the cost, nothing mentioned about whether they run that scheme either.


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> The only facts that are 100% are that a child and a dog have lost their lives in horrific ways :frown2:
> 
> Everything else is just speculation :mad2:


I thought as much.

The media seem to be making it up as they go along. I've seen a photo of the little girl with a DDB in one paper, and a photo of her, with a photo of an alleged "pit bull type" in another.

There doesn't seem to be a single account of what actually happened either. Silly me for hoping newspapers would actually provide "news".


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

SirHiss said:


> I noticed that too. One of mine come from the pound, we were given vouchers to go towards the cost of neutering, wasn't a great deal, something like £20 off towards the cost, nothing mentioned about whether they run that scheme either.


That would rely on an element of trust as well. Rogue was too young to spay when we got her, but the contract stated she had to be spayed, it's done free of charge at the vet the rescue uses, but we got her done at our expense at our own vets as we know & trust them.

Nothing to stop someone from saying they'd got the dog neutered when they haven't, that place would be a BYB's dream, pick up a dog to breed from for £100 or less


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

This is so sad. My heart goes out to her mother and her family.

I don't know anything much about breeds of Dogs and I have never owned one but I always think that like Humans there is always one in any breed that just might be a danger.
I use to walk a GSD when i was little and people use to cross the road. He was a Lovely Boy but in those days they had a bad reputation but now you never hear anything bad about them now.

I know I would not have adopted such a large Dog myself if I had got a small child and a single mum, but everyone is different.
The Mother might have grown up herself with these type of dogs.
I expect it will all come out in the papers but sadly 2 lives have been lost and a family in ruins.
So Tragic.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

I have just seen on the news that the dog came from a rescue kennel, what really worries me is that this tragic death of this little girl and the dog will cause more people to now not get a rescue dog and even more dogs will be pts because nobody wants them, all my dogs have come via rescues and any future dogs i have will be rescues.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> That would rely on an element of trust as well. Rogue was too young to spay when we got her, but the contract stated she had to be spayed, it's done free of charge at the vet the rescue uses, but we got her done at our expense at our own vets as we know & trust them.
> 
> Nothing to stop someone from saying they'd got the dog neutered when they haven't, that place would be a BYB's dream, pick up a dog to breed from for £100 or less


I agree.

My tiny cross came from the local pound, we did have a homecheck which was carried out by the dog warden who is responsible for taking in the dogs picked up as strays. We had a follow on call a few weeks later to see how he was settling in, that was it.

He was neutered and the vouchers were used as part payment, I am not sure whether they would have known he was neutered being as we did use them, or whether they do actually work on the basis of trust 

We did have to sign a rehoming contract too.

Not every pound is run like this, even though checks were kept to a bare minimal before our little dog came home.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

hazel pritchard said:


> I have just seen on the news that the dog came from a rescue kennel, what really worries me is that this tragic death of this little girl and the dog will cause more people to now not get a rescue dog and even more dogs will be pts because nobody wants them, all my dogs have come via rescues and any future dogs i have will be rescues.


It was a council run pound, it calls itself a rescue, but it is run for and paid by the council it holds their strays for 7 days ( a legal requirement for a POUND) and it can then rehome them. they are NOT a rescue.....


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Snoringbear said:


> .
> 
> A four year old should not be left alone with any dog.


Going by reports the mother was with her when she was attacked, the fact is if you have a dog that is too strong and powerful for a adult to control it's not going to make a difference to the situation that happened here .


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

SirHiss said:


> I agree.
> 
> My tiny cross came from the local pound, we did have a homecheck which was carried out by the dog warden who is responsible for taking in the dogs picked up as strays. We had a follow on call a few weeks later to see how he was settling in, that was it.
> 
> ...


I suppose, like street cleaning & everything else, council run pounds are tendered out to external companies, & knowing how councils love to budget, the best value, rather than the most suitable, would win that tender.



Meezey said:


> It was a council run pound, it calls itself a rescue, but it is run for and paid by the council it *holds their strays for 7 days* ( a legal requirement for a POUND) and it can then rehome them. they are NOT a rescue.....


Interesting how they word it too, 'assessed for 7 days' on their website


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

Meezey said:


> It was a council run pound, it calls itself a rescue, but it is run for and paid by the council it holds their strays for 7 days ( a legal requirement for a POUND) and it can then rehome them. they are NOT a rescue.....


It's just been on TV showing the kennels & cattery the dog came from, seems people are being put under the impression they are a rescue, the dog is being reported as a 'rescue' when you and I and everyone else, know differently.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Snoringbear said:


> The dog hasn't been identified yet, or at least released by the police. The pictures in the media don't show a Bullmastiff.
> 
> A four year old should not be left alone with any dog.


She was not left on her own though. Having said that most people would not want a dog they could not leave their child with.

Why not just accept that a terrible tragedy has happened and everyone stop surmising what might have happened and making out it was someone's fault. It has happened, we do not know and will never know the circumstances surrounding it.

No good having a go about the media when so many on here are equally at fault with scaremongering and blame.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

this is a public forum where people can discuss issues.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Meezey said:


> It was a council run pound, it calls itself a rescue, but it is run for and paid by the council it holds their strays for 7 days ( a legal requirement for a POUND) and it can then rehome them. they are NOT a rescue.....


Not sure that should make a difference - if they assured the lady the dog was safe around children they are culpable surely? Had they said "sorry we don't know we are a pound not a rescue" then she possibly would not have homed the dog.

But the bottom line is what an awful tragedy, poor little girl


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Blitz said:


> She was not left on her own though. Having said that most people would not want a dog they could not leave their child with.
> 
> Why not just accept that a terrible tragedy has happened and everyone stop surmising what might have happened and making out it was someone's fault. It has happened, we do not know and will never know the circumstances surrounding it.
> 
> No good having a go about the media when so many on here are equally at fault with scaremongering and blame.


I know she wasn't. You've taken my comment completely out of context. It will be clearer if you go back and read what I was replying to.

I don't think anyone here is anyone near the level of scaremongering that the media do.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Pointermum said:


> Going by reports the mother was with her when she was attacked, the fact is if you have a dog that is too strong and powerful for a adult to control it's not going to make a difference to the situation that happened here .


Same as my comment above. Taken out of context, was not referring to the attack in question at all.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> Not sure that should make a difference - if they assured the lady the dog was safe around children they are culpable surely? Had they said "sorry we don't know we are a pound not a rescue" then she possibly would not have homed the dog.
> 
> But the bottom line is what an awful tragedy, poor little girl


It makes a HUGE difference to those who run rescues being classed the same as pound, it's not a fair comparison and it's not fair on those rescue's out there, who home check carry out full assessments, who have their dogs for weeks and months, who don't re home large breeds to people with children. A pound is council run, it does the bare minimum with dogs, rescues "save" dogs from the pound commonly known as "death row".

So while to you it might not make a difference, it does in the long run... A pound will let ANYONE take a dog, with often no checks none at all... Anyone can take anything...  how is 7 days would a pound know a dog was child safe?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Blitz said:


> She was not left on her own though. Having said that most people would not want a dog they could not leave their child with.
> 
> Why not just accept that a terrible tragedy has happened and everyone stop surmising what might have happened and making out it was someone's fault. It has happened, we do not know and will never know the circumstances surrounding it.
> 
> No good having a go about the media when so many on here are equally at fault with scaremongering and blame.


It's human nature to speculate & discuss these issues though.

The fact that the media appears to have been demonising the wrong breed initially is grounds for those who love the breed to come to its defense, as they should.

Snoringbear has already said there has been hostility towards DDB owners, & that would have been purely down to what some armchair vigilantes have read in the papers.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

tabulahrasa said:


> The Edinburgh one is a charity - but it's where all the strays are taken.
> 
> The dog I got there had been picked up as a stray as a little puppy, sold and returned at about 4 months old...but that's literally all the history they were able to give me and was more than they could tell me about most of the dogs there.


That would be the Edinburgh Dog and Cat Home. Brochan came from there and he had been a stray. I believe that most of the strays found in the Lothians are taken there once their time in police kennels is up. They have a no kill policy. I don't think there is a rescue centre in Scotland that has a kill policy.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

It's an awful, awful tragedy. Can't imagine what Lexi's poor mum is going through 

To be honest, there's fault on both sides though reading what I just have, Lexi's mum knew keeping dogs was prohibited at the property she resided at, the housing association responsible for letting the property have confirmed this, nothing more while investigations are being carried out. The pound is also responsible for not making more detailed checks, maybe this terrible tragedy will look at how particular pounds are run, and that all pounds should be responsible detailed checks being carried out, or look at what is written within pound policies regarding families taking in dogs without detailed history.


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## MrG (Jul 16, 2013)

hazel pritchard said:


> I have just seen on the news that the dog came from a rescue kennel, what really worries me is that this tragic death of this little girl and the dog will cause more people to now not get a rescue dog and even more dogs will be pts because nobody wants them, all my dogs have come via rescues and any future dogs i have will be rescues.


I dont entirely agree with that. The good owners will understand the issues here (which are not new - we get similar stories all the time) and continue to home rescue dogs. Luckily though it may put off the ignorant who might've taken a rescue dog...and might therefore avert another potential disaster of their own.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> That would be the Edinburgh Dog and Cat Home. Brochan came from there and he had been a stray. I believe that most of the strays found in the Lothians are taken there once their time in police kennels is up. They have a no kill policy. I don't think there is a rescue centre in Scotland that has a kill policy.


It would be 

They did just sell me a dog, with no history and no checks and couldn't even tell me much about him. I mean I knew I was an experienced dog owner and I wasn't bothered at all about taking home a half grown puppy with no history at the time. (he was a brilliant dog after about 6 months of training as it happens and a complete lunatic before that, lol)

I'm not knocking what they do as in, they rehome hundreds of strays, but it is not the same process at all as going to an actual rescue.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> It's an awful, awful tragedy. Can't imagine what Lexi's poor mum is going through
> 
> To be honest, there's fault on both sides though reading what I just have, Lexi's mum knew keeping dogs was prohibited at the property she resided at, the housing association responsible for letting the property have confirmed this, nothing more while investigations are being carried out. The pound is also responsible for not making more detailed checks, maybe this terrible tragedy will look at how particular pounds are run, and that all pounds should be responsible detailed checks being carried out, or look at what is written within pound policies regarding families taking in dogs without detailed history.


So the dog shouldn't have even been there :frown2:


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Just watched the lunchtime news and according to the report it wasn't the DDB that had been pictured. The child was apparently sleeping and the mother stabbed the dog to get it off of her daughter.

I apologise if anyone has said the same thing, I haven't had time to read the last few pages.

They also had Robert Alleyne on there giving a bit of a talk basically that no one should trust their dog 100% and they shouldn't be left alone with small children. Dogs at this time of year with Halloween and bonfire night can be quite on edge.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Meezey said:


> It makes a HUGE difference to those who run rescues being classed the same as pound, it's not a fair comparison and it's not fair on those rescue's out there, who home check carry out full assessments, who have their dogs for weeks and months, who don't re home large breeds to people with children. A pound is council run, it does the bare minimum with dogs, rescues "save" dogs from the pound commonly known as "death row".
> 
> So while to you it might not make a difference, it does in the long run... A pound will let ANYONE take a dog, with often no checks none at all... Anyone can take anything...  how is 7 days would a pound know a dog was child safe?


Here's hoping that something serious comes from this then-

So let me get this straight councils will pay places like this to set up as a pound BUT animal welfare charities etc. in the UK receive NO government funding or lottery money.

Instead they self regulate through incredibly stringent and much maligned careful policies so that dogs are not wilfully given to people who may not be suitable owners- BUT - pounds- paid for by the councils will happily hand out dogs to anyone with bare minimum.

The world continues to confuse and disappoint me.

Where there's blame , there's a claim and councils will maybe have to sit up straight after this.

Now are they going to have to train pound staff to meet a minimum standard- you can bet your bottom dollar if government/councils have to start investing money in this there will be more impassioned cried about regulating dog breeding and owning in this country- the minute it starts to cost the big boys money


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Dog now identified by police as a "Bulldog".

BBC News - Lexi Branson attack: Killer dog was stabbed to death


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

This is the latest I think

BBC News - Lexi Branson attack: Killer dog was stabbed to death


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

We're expecting about 40 every month and we've got 22 kennels so we need to keep finding homes for the ones that aren't collected by owners."

All the animals picked up by Leicester City Council dog wardens will go straight to Willowtree.

If they are collected within eight days, their owners will be charged for their stay.

If they are not collected within eight days they will become the property of the kennels who will re-home them and charge their new owners a small fee, which has not yet been set.

Willowtree is still in the process of setting up a website to help with rehoming animals and a neighbouring dog centre is helping get everything set up.

Read more: http://legacy.thisisleicestershire....tory-17594430-detail/story.html#ixzz2jsQGXqJR


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

So sad and doubt will ever know exactly why these things happen, people often miss subtle signs that things aren't ok with dogs tbh & can't view horrible event like that clearly after. Its all this dangerous dog talk that gets to me, like there are specific breeds/types that will just 'turn' and savage folk even though we now know it isn't, but little seems to be done to look into why? It reminded me of another news item this week about sweetie, where for too long its been assumed a certain type are a risk & overlooking issue.


I suspect the mum went to that 'rescue' as they didn't do adequate checks otherwise they'd discover she wasn't allowed to keep a dog at the property and could easily been a freead instead. Its hard to say any dog is safe with children & can vary enormously how kids/parents behave some are very dog savy & others expect dogs to put up with whatever kids & they dole out.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Oh dear, I think me and Bradley might have to become nocturnal walkers for a while .

I wonder if it's true that it was spooked by fireworks.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

I am another one fed-up of all the conflicting stories that are flying around. I see the pictures of the dog 'believed to be the one that attacked' have changed. The first pictures were of a very large Mastiff type, now the pictures are of a Bulldog type! How hard is it to confirm the attacking dog? Neighbours are now saying the dog was a 'Pit Bull', but the dog in the second batch of pictures looks nothing like an American Pit Bull Terrier (if that was the breed they were meaning when they said 'Pit Bull'). There is a picture of the second dog with nasty looking red marks around her neck. Could it have been that the dog was chained up? Something else I picked up on is that one or more reports say the child was attacked in a bedroom, but if this was true, then how did a neighbour or neighbours say the mother emerged from the house/garden covered in mud? She shouldn't have been covered in mud if the attack happened in the house! Just what on earth happened? A report says a firework might have spooked the dog. This could well be a possibility. The dog might have been frightened and the girl tried to comfort the dog who redirected her nervous energy onto the girl.

Anyway, I learned a long time ago not to believe everything in news articles. News outlets all have their own biases, will leave out vital information, while fabricating some and sometimes not even bother to probe a story properly. There was a fairly recent incident in which a young boy was bitten by an Akita in a pub. All the newspapers could say were that the parents were getting ready to leave when they heard the boy screaming and found him being bitten by the dog. Things didn't add-up, so I did a bit of digging. The parents were actually sitting drinking and hadn't noticed the boy wandering off. He ended up entering a private room where the dog was and the dog perceived him as a threat. Nothing more has been mentioned by the press. Probably because that would mean admitting the parents had lied.

It was the same with Jade Anderson. With Jade, there were reports of her having been found in the yard and others say she was in the house. Earlier stories said how her friend told of how Jade had been eating a pie at the time, but how could she have known that if Jade was in the house alone? At first, it said there had been a fifth dog in the house, but more recent stories never mentioned a fifth dog. Everybody is blaming the mother of Jade's friend, but the actions of her friend have never been called into question. The post mortem results of Jade and the dogs have never been made public. We will never know what happened there either.

I sincerely doubt we will be told the whole story regarding this attack. The reasons surrounding attacks and bites are very seldom investigated. And I don't think the mother here should be let off. She was the one that brought the dog into the house and there must have been a chain of events that led to this tragedy. Was the dog fed a poor diet, exercised properly, recently neutered, given a clean bill of health by a vet, were there any rules regarding the interactions between the dog and child?? I know she has very sadly lost her child and will have to live with that for the rest of her life, but lessons MUST be learned! All the media and the ignoramuses that post on the comments sections are going to do is blame the dog and breed. The actions of the mother and indeed the child are not going to be called into question. If they were, it might help to prevent future bites and attacks. As for the rescue/pound or whatever type of place she got the dog from. Exactly what information did they pass on about the dog?

Another thing that makes me fume in threads and stories like this is using the term 'destroy' when it comes to killing a non human. Killing another life is exactly that - it's not getting rid of an inanimate object!

To those of you saying that you would kill your dog if they were to bite or attack your child or somebody else. Have you ever said that people should not consider their dogs to be disposable commodities? Would you kill a family member if they started attacking you or another person or would you want somebody else to kill them? What if your child was a vicious bully? Would you work with them or have them put down? Should the violent child mentioned in this story have been put down? And why should children be considered more important than dogs? There is no scientific evidence to back those claims up and recent studies (including MRIs) are proving that dogs have the same sentience as younger children. Unless you can provide me with concrete evidence proving the world couldn't possibly exist without humans. And it really annoys the heck out of me that, in this day and age, people still aren't accepting/believing that humans are animals too. Humans are every bit as capable of 'snapping' as dogs are. I know that some of my views are sometimes perceived as controversial, but I like to think of myself as a realist and a believer of scientific fact. This is probably not the thread to be talking about those things and I apologise if I cause upset, but I do believe that they have some relevance here. I also hope they get some of you to think about the human animal in a different way.

Rest in peace Lexi and dog.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Gemmaa said:


> Oh dear, I think me and Bradley might have to become nocturnal walkers for a while .
> 
> *I wonder if it's true that it was spooked by fireworks*.


I'm pretty sceptical of this theory- loads of dogs are spooked by fireworks, some out on walks , some in the house. Doesn't mean they that launching themselves on people.

Of course I can understand that a surprise like a firework could unhinge an animal- but I reckon there would be more precursors to the final behaviour of the dog than firework fear- but then who knows


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## furrytails (Nov 5, 2013)

so sad. although my dogs are soppy it underlines how much dogs and children should have together ..


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> To those of you saying that you would kill your dog if they were to bite or attack your child or somebody else. To those of you saying that you would kill your dog if they were to bite or attack your child or somebody else. Have you ever said that people should not consider their dogs to be disposable commodities? Would you kill a family member if they started attacking you or another person or would you want somebody else to kill them? What if your child was a vicious bully? Would you work with them or have them put down?


I think theres a world of difference in killing a dog in sheer panic to frantically try and save the life of a child. Than killing a dog for any other reason.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> I am another one fed-up of all the conflicting stories that are flying around. I see the pictures of the dog 'believed to be the one that attacked' have changed. The first pictures were of a very large Mastiff type, now the pictures are of a Bulldog type! How hard is it to confirm the attacking dog? Neighbours are now saying the dog was a 'Pit Bull', but the dog in the second batch of pictures looks nothing like an American Pit Bull Terrier (if that was the breed they were meaning when they said 'Pit Bull'). There is a picture of the second dog with nasty looking red marks around her neck. Could it have been that the dog was chained up? Something else I picked up on is that one or more reports say the child was attacked in a bedroom, but if this was true, then how did a neighbour or neighbours say the mother emerged from the house/garden covered in mud? She shouldn't have been covered in mud if the attack happened in the house! Just what on earth happened? A report says a firework might have spooked the dog. This could well be a possibility. The dog might have been frightened and the girl tried to comfort the dog who redirected her nervous energy onto the girl.
> 
> Anyway, I learned a long time ago not to believe everything in news articles. News outlets all have their own biases, will leave out vital information, while fabricating some and sometimes not even bother to probe a story properly. There was a fairly recent incident in which a young boy was bitten by an Akita in a pub. All the newspapers could say were that the parents were getting ready to leave when they heard the boy screaming and found him being bitten by the dog. Things didn't add-up, so I did a bit of digging. The parents were actually sitting drinking and hadn't noticed the boy wandering off. He ended up entering a private room where the dog was and the dog perceived him as a threat. Nothing more has been mentioned by the press. Probably because that would mean admitting the parents had lied.
> 
> ...


why should children be considered more important than dogs?....I don't believe you just posted that.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Julesky said:


> *I'm pretty sceptical of this theory- loads of dogs are spooked by fireworks, some out on walks , some in the house. Doesn't mean they that launching themselves on people.*
> 
> Of course I can understand that a surprise like a firework could unhinge an animal- but I reckon there would be more precursors to the final behaviour of the dog than firework fear- but then who knows


You and me both, we had fireworks set off as we walked past the other night...Thai was a wreck, he did not redirect onto me tho...

Personally I think that there is WAAAAAAAY more to this story than the media are letting on...for too much doesn't add up for me..

Such a sad loss of a very young life


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> I think theres a world of difference in killing a dog in sheer panic to frantically try and save the life of a child. Than killing a dog for any other reason.


responsible dog owners don't consider their dogs as disposable...I would not keep a dog that bit or was not under control.

I would not be able to keep any dog that showed aggression towards my grandchildren. I would not be happy in rehoming a dog like that in case it was aggressive towards somebody else's grandchildren/children.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> why should children be considered more important than dogs?....I don't believe you just posted that.


I did because there is hardly a thing that infuriates me more than some people _thinking_ (not knowing) that humans are the be all and end all. For the record, I do have children in my family, but I do not intend to have any myself. I love my dogs just as much as I do the children in my family.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> responsible dog owners don't consider their dogs as disposable...I would not keep a dog that bit or was not under control.
> 
> I would not be able to keep any dog that showed aggression towards my grandchildren. I would not be happy in rehoming a dog like that in case it was aggressive towards somebody else's grandchildren/children.


So, you are not responsible then as you are saying that dogs are indeed disposable!


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I can't help but wonder why the dog was at the pound (or whatever it was) in the first place. Presumably no one knows, but might it have shown aggression before?


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> I did because there is hardly a thing that infuriates me more than some people _thinking_ (not knowing) that humans are the be all and end all. For the record, I do have children in my family, but I do not intend to have any myself. I love my dogs just as much as I do the children in my family.


Lets hope you are never in a situation where you may have to choose then.

I would use whatever force necessary to remove a child from the jaws of a dog! If that offends, then this isn't the thread for you, with emotions running high. Have a little sympathy, a young child is dead.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> I did because there is hardly a thing that infuriates me more than some people _thinking_ (not knowing) that humans are the be all and end all. For the record, I do have children in my family, but I do not intend to have any myself. I love my dogs just as much as I do the children in my family.


Dogs live possibly 15 years. They do not contribute to society - either our society or their own other than procreating to continue their race.

Humans live 70 years plus. During that time they contribute to society. Some of their contributions have been the very things that keep your dogs alive - medicines, vaccines, even the ability to neuter and spay.

A child may grow up and make a major contribution - a dog never will, however long it lives, however much it's loved and cared for. It exists.

There is no comparison between a dog's life or a child's. Are you really saying that you would have let the child be killed and let the dog live???


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> Dogs live possibly 15 years. They do not contribute to society - either our society or their own other than procreating to continue their race.
> 
> Humans live 70 years plus. During that time they contribute to society. Some of their contributions have been the very things that keep your dogs alive - medicines, vaccines, even the ability to neuter and spay.
> 
> ...


I'm not getting into to the "what species deserves to live more than another" argument as it is pointless to me...but what about service dogs? They contribute their whole working life. Surely?


----------



## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> So, you are not responsible then as you are saying that dogs are indeed disposable!


I don't think dogs are disposable, but...

I have a large breed dog with a possible aggression issue, so far it's just been noise and we're doing everything possible to work out what's going on with him, but if it escalates and I can no longer keep people safe from him, what realistically are my options?


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> So, you are not responsible then as you are saying that dogs are indeed disposable!


Goodness me LGG, I can see you're upset but there is a vast difference between owning an animal and keeping one alive for the sake of life.

An example: You own a dog, for whatever reason it is extremely aggressive, you cannot manage it what do you do? Rehome it- wherever you pass it on it becomes someone elses 'problem'.

Another example: You're out driving, your car hits a bird, it breaks both wings- but is alive. Do you tend to it for the rest of it's life or kill it.

Humane decisions must be made on what is best for all concerned. Quality of life for all animals must be decided upon- and the underlying ethics. This involves responsibility.

It is extremely contrite to suggest that because someone would choose to euthanase an animal does not automatically mean they assume animals are disposable.

After all at the end of our dog's lives most of take responsibility for the pain and suffering of our loved companions.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

If you can say a childs life is not more important than that of a dog then god help the future of dog ownership - it is that sort of attitude that leads to the belief that dog owners are selfish loonys who only care about their pets :frown2:

A little girl is dead and was killed in a terrifying agonising way


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> Dogs live possibly 15 years. They do not contribute to society - either our society or their own other than procreating to continue their race.
> 
> Humans live 70 years plus. During that time they contribute to society. Some of their contributions have been the very things that keep your dogs alive - medicines, vaccines, even the ability to neuter and spay.
> 
> ...


So, dogs don't contribute to society? 

There aren't such things as sniffer dogs (that can find anything from dead bodies to pirated discs to cancer), assistance dogs (for the blind, deaf and disabled), search and rescue dogs, sled dogs (that are often the only means of transport for a lot of people in remote areas of snow covered countries), that average dogs don't positively enrich the lives of the people that have them? And have the dogs who have alerted their families to dangers like intruders and fires not contributed to society either by saving lives?

It is just sheer and utter arrogance to think that humans are the most important species of all. You also seem to be defining importance by intelligence. They are not one and the same. I shall ask you what you deem more important. A child/adult with severe special needs (who will not make a major contribution to society) or a doctor?


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

This is all very sad again... IMO the rescue should not have re homed a large breed dog such as a DDB to a family who clearly had no experience with large breed dogs.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

tabulahrasa said:


> I don't think dogs are disposable, but...
> 
> I have a large breed dog with a possible aggression issue, so far it's just been noise and we're doing everything possible to work out what's going on with him, but if it escalates and I can no longer keep people safe from him, what realistically are my options?


Keep him muzzled and only walk him at quieter times. Drain excess energy by letting him have a good run in a secure enclosed area. Find a good behaviourist that specialises in aggression.

If you truly love a dog, you will find ways of working things out. If a behavioural problem stems from an untreatable medical condition, then I agree that putting them to sleep is the kindest thing.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> So, dogs don't contribute to society?
> 
> *There aren't such things as sniffer dogs (that can find anything from dead bodies to pirated discs to cancer), assistance dogs (for the blind, deaf and disabled), search and rescue dogs, sled dogs (that are often the only means of transport for a lot of people in remote areas of snow covered countries), that average dogs don't positively enrich the lives of the people that have them? And have the dogs who have alerted their families to dangers like intruders and fires not contributed to society either by saving lives?*
> 
> It is just sheer and utter arrogance to think that humans are the most important species of all. You also seem to be defining importance by intelligence. They are not one and the same. I shall ask you what you deem more important. A child/adult with severe special needs (who will not make a major contribution to society) or a doctor?


How many of these do you reckon are aggressive towards people- none.

Cold hard fact of life, people bred dogs to work with them. Ones that were aggressive were DEFINITELY not bred from on purpose and most likely culled.

I am not saying aggression cases cannot be treated - of course I don't think that but it is nonsense to display some weird balanced society where humans and animals are valued equally, they are not- regardless which side of the debate you sit on the fact is they are not.

As such it is your responsibility that your animals do not impinge upon society.


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Another thing that makes me fume in threads and stories like this is using the term 'destroy' when it comes to killing a non human. Killing another life is exactly that - it's not getting rid of an inanimate object!
> 
> To those of you saying that you would kill your dog if they were to bite or attack your child or somebody else. Have you ever said that people should not consider their dogs to be disposable commodities? Would you kill a family member if they started attacking you or another person or would you want somebody else to kill them? What if your child was a vicious bully? Would you work with them or have them put down? Should the violent child mentioned in this story have been put down? And why should children be considered more important than dogs? There is no scientific evidence to back those claims up and recent studies (including MRIs) are proving that dogs have the same sentience as younger children. Unless you can provide me with concrete evidence proving the world couldn't possibly exist without humans. And it really annoys the heck out of me that, in this day and age, people still aren't accepting/believing that humans are animals too. Humans are every bit as capable of 'snapping' as dogs are. I know that some of my views are sometimes perceived as controversial, but I like to think of myself as a realist and a believer of scientific fact. This is probably not the thread to be talking about those things and I apologise if I cause upset, but I do believe that they have some relevance here. I also hope they get some of you to think about the human animal in a different way.


All species prioritize their own species and their own family above others I the same species. I don't think people are the best, all supreme, super intelligent creatures most believe we are, in fact, all the heinous things people over the ages have done and are still doing makes me think the opposite. I don't believe any one species is superior over another BUT we all prioritize our own and by all I don't mean people but all animal species.

No one, at least I hope no one would keep an animal that had harmed them, their friends or family or their children. 
A dog, potentially, can cause a lot of damage or even kill us if they want to.
Even little dogs, like the baby that was killed by a jack Russell.

Dogs and people are two separate animals with distinct body language and behavioural differences, you can never be 100% sure that another person won't act in an unexpected way, so how can you can be sure that a dog that has bitten a person won't do it again? Even if they were worked with, we are all unpredictable.

If my dog bit a child, either a nip or a single bite in response to pain or because she was startled etc and let go immediately I would rehome her to a child free home. 
If she actually went for someone, as in tried to attack them, bit and wouldn't let go, I would have her pts as I wouldn't believe her to be safe.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Julesky said:


> *How many of these do you reckon are aggressive towards people- none.*
> 
> Cold hard fact of life, people bred dogs to work with them. Ones that were aggressive were DEFINITELY not bred from on purpose and most likely culled.
> 
> ...


But then humans have murderers, rapists, pedophiles...etc...etc...etc

As I said I am not getting into who is better or deserves to live more....Just trying to put another point across


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Poor poor little girl , what her family must now be going through is unimaginable


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Sparkle22 said:


> If my dog bit a child, either a nip or a single bite in response to pain or because she was startled etc and let go immediately I would rehome her to a child free home.
> If she actually went for someone, as in tried to attack them, bit and wouldn't let go, I would have her pts as I wouldn't believe her to be safe.


Exactly- types of scenarios we all hope we never have to be in.

This 'truly love a dog' being spouted is BS.

Dogs are bred to be our companions and our pets- ultimately when acquiring one we take responsibility for it.

If a person decides they have no choice and couldn't live with themselves rehoming an aggressive animal that they are responsible then that is their choice.

All the love in the world doesn't retrain a dog- action, commitment and time do.

If you do not have that then you need to be responsible.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> So, dogs don't contribute to society?
> 
> There aren't such things as sniffer dogs (that can find anything from dead bodies to pirated discs to cancer), assistance dogs (for the blind, deaf and disabled), search and rescue dogs, sled dogs (that are often the only means of transport for a lot of people in remote areas of snow covered countries), that average dogs don't positively enrich the lives of the people that have them? And have the dogs who have alerted their families to dangers like intruders and fires not contributed to society either by saving lives?
> 
> It is just sheer and utter arrogance to think that humans are the most important species of all. You also seem to be defining importance by intelligence. They are not one and the same. I shall ask you what you deem more important. A child/adult with severe special needs (who will not make a major contribution to society) or a doctor?


oh my goodness. I did not realise people with your beliefs existed.

We, humans, breed dogs that can assist us. They do not come along and offer their services and breed themselves so the perfect dog comes along for each job. If the dog cannot do the job it is disposed of. That does not equate to dogs having equal rights to humans does it.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

StormyThai said:


> But then humans have murderers, rapists, pedophiles...etc...etc...etc
> 
> As I said I am not getting into who is better or deserves to live more....Just trying to put another point across


No worries ST- I just don't understand your point?

If out of a litter of sled dogs in the tundra one is incredibly aggressive- do you think an inuit family will waste precious meat on that dog- no it'll be killed, it is of no functional use.

How does this tie into human murderers?

I think you miss my point?


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Keep him muzzled and only walk him at quieter times. Drain excess energy by letting him have a good run in a secure enclosed area. Find a good behaviourist that specialises in aggression.
> 
> If you truly love a dog, you will find ways of working things out. If a behavioural problem stems from an untreatable medical condition, then I agree that putting them to sleep is the kindest thing.


I'm already doing all that...but if I thought that people actually living in my house were in danger, or if he managed to attack someone while out? even while muzzled, he may not manage to bite through it, but he could still hurt someone.

Realistically, I couldn't in all conscience pass him on for rehoming with a behavioural issue and ongoing medical problems - I could at some point be looking at having him PTS before knowing what was actually causing his behaviour.

I'm not anywhere near that point (just in case anyone got worried there, lol), but hypothetically it is something that I may at some point have to consider.

Unfortunately sometimes being responsible does mean that sometimes the safest option is to have a dog killed to make sure that people are safe...


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## freckles (May 8, 2008)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> I did because there is hardly a thing that infuriates me more than some people _thinking_ (not knowing) that humans are the be all and end all. For the record, I do have children in my family, but I do not intend to have any myself. I love my dogs just as much as I do the children in my family.


and IF you did have kids of your own then you would think more of them than a dog, I love my dogs, but if one was attacking my daughter I would kill it without a 2nd thought...

sorry but people DO come before animals!!... so are you saying IF your dog attacked a child, and seriously harmed it, you would just dismiss it? you would just stand and watch?... and think ''oh its just one of those things? if one of mine did, then it would be PTS..

comments like yours infuriate me!


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> But then humans have murderers, rapists, pedophiles...etc...etc...etc
> 
> As I said I am not getting into who is better or deserves to live more....Just trying to put another point across


And that we do.

I'd still prioritize a child's life than that of an animals, I really, really would, could not live with my conscience if I did not. That does not mean I treat animals as disposable objects, it just means I wish to see others live a long and happy life and not cut short by some tragic accident, that could have possibly been prevented.

Cannot believe really that some are putting priority over a dog that badly mauled a child so badly it resulted in her death and lambasting her poor mum for her actions :frown2:

There are worse things that can happen to an animal than a needle to ends it's life, I'm sorry, it's just what I feel


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Julesky said:


> How many of these do you reckon are aggressive towards people- none.
> 
> Cold hard fact of life, people bred dogs to work with them. Ones that were aggressive were DEFINITELY not bred from on purpose and most likely culled.
> 
> ...


Here we go again, another person that refuses to accept the *scientifically proven FACT* that humans are animals too.

I have said it before and will say it again. Human arrogance has caused many of world's problems. Too many people think they are so much more important than anything else and proceed to destroy billions of acres of land and forests so they can continue to breed at an alarming rate. There are more than 60 million humans in this country and people will think nothing of culling other species when their numbers get out of control. Or they think that spaying and neutering is such a good idea without even contemplating applying the same logic to their own species. Scientists are proving that human activity is responsible for the much sped up rate at which the planet is warming. If humans don't stand back and realise that they are actually causing this and stop poisoning the atmosphere and breed responsibly, then there won't be much of a future for anyone! This will involve a complete mindset change as people MUST stop being so flaming arrogant! And just look at how many species that have gone extinct because of humans hunting them and destroying their habitats! Sir David Attenborough wasn't wrong when he called the human race a plague.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Here we go again, another person that refuses to accept the *scientifically proven FACT* that humans are animals too.
> 
> I have said it before and will say it again. Human arrogance has caused many of world's problems. Too many people think they are so much more important than anything else and proceed to destroy billions of acres of land and forests so they can continue to breed at an alarming rate. There are more than 60 million humans in this country and people will think nothing of culling other species when their numbers get out of control. Or they think that spaying and neutering is such a good idea without even contemplating applying the same logic to their own species. Scientists are proving that human activity is responsible for the much sped up rate at which the planet is warming. If humans don't stand back and realise that they are actually causing this and stop poisoning the atmosphere and breed responsibly, then there won't be much of a future for anyone! This will involve a complete mindset change as people MUST stop being so flaming arrogant! And just look at how many species that have gone extinct because of humans hunting them and destroying their habitats! Sir David Attenborough wasn't wrong when he called the human race a plague.


OK pal- i'm a trained scientist so please don't spout block capitals at me.

I'm also heavily involved in climate research.

Please tell me where exactly this *YET ANOTHER PERSON* stated that I didn't know humans were animals.

The rest of your post is borderline hysteria.

I hope you shop ethically and have no products with palm oil in to help address some of the many issues the human race causes.

Go have a cup of tea and come back when you can be less offensive


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Here we go again, another person that refuses to accept the *scientifically proven FACT* that humans are animals too.


If we are shouting *what part of a little girl is dead can you not accept*


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Here we go again, another person that refuses to accept the *scientifically proven FACT* that humans are animals too.
> 
> I have said it before and will say it again. Human arrogance has caused many of world's problems. Too many people think they are so much more important than anything else and proceed to destroy billions of acres of land and forests so they can continue to breed at an alarming rate. There are more than 60 million humans in this country and people will think nothing of culling other species when their numbers get out of control. Or they think that spaying and neutering is such a good idea without even contemplating applying the same logic to their own species. Scientists are proving that human activity is responsible for the much sped up rate at which the planet is warming. If humans don't stand back and realise that they are actually causing this and stop poisoning the atmosphere and breed responsibly, then there won't be much of a future for anyone! This will involve a complete mindset change as people MUST stop being so flaming arrogant! And just look at how many species that have gone extinct because of humans hunting them and destroying their habitats! Sir David Attenborough wasn't wrong when he called the human race a plague.


I agree with most of what you said (in this comment, not the earlier one) but I think you need to accept

1. That at no point did the poster you are referring to say anything to suggest that people aren't animals and

2. Spaying and neutering is proven to lengthen the animals life significantly. Some types of cat and almost all dogs are so heavily domesticated that without people they wouldn't be able to survive. What would happen to all those puppies and kittens then? If it's unethical to neuter an animal, isnt it also unethical to take its babies away from it? Let's not forget, many types of cat come into heat as early as 4 months and can come into heat again when the kittens are just 3 or 4 weeks old. Is that really healthy for a cat to birth so many kittens throughout its life?

Many people ARE spaying and neutering, my fil got sterilised after they didn't want anymore kids and me and my husband will probably get sterilised when this baby is born as we don't want anymore.

I agree with your points about selfishness, culling numbers etc but there is a bug difference between behaviour like that and protecting your child from a dangerous animal?

Surely you can understand why a parent would rehome or maybe pts a animal that has attacked their child and could possibly even kill it?


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Julesky said:


> OK pal- i'm a trained scientist so please don't spout block capitals at me.
> 
> I'm also heavily involved in climate research.
> 
> ...


Your exact words were: "where humans and animals are valued equally, they are not". So you are now saying that humans are animals. 

And I do everything I can to be friendly to the environment!

The rest of my post was NOT borderline hysteria! I posted facts that you are clearly uncomfortable with and choose to ignore! There MUST be no escaping the FACT that humans are the most dangerous and destructive of all animals!

I am also being offensive for not thinking of myself as the highest and mightiest of all species. Again I am confused!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Your exact words were: "where humans and animals are valued equally, they are not". So you are now saying that humans are animals.
> 
> And I do everything I can to be friendly to the environment!
> 
> ...


No, you are being offensive by being callous and insensitive to the horrible death of an innocent little child


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Julesky said:


> No worries ST- I just don't understand your point?
> 
> If out of a litter of sled dogs in the tundra one is incredibly aggressive- do you think an inuit family will waste precious meat on that dog- no it'll be killed, it is of no functional use.
> 
> ...


I fully get your point there, an aggressive dog does not have a place in society. The vast majority of people would not be able to manage an aggressive dog, there are far worse things than a humane death out there for our dogs.
With the dog in this case, attacking to that level it is a no brainier for me..Regardless of the cause, a dog that shows that level of aggression with no bite inhibition should not be in society...It would be no life for the dog or the humans managing the dog, he would never be trusted to just be a dog.. So with that in mind I would not choose the life of a child over a dog.

However my point was that someone mentioned that dogs do not contribute to society, well IMO working dogs do on a daily basis so when you said that no working dogs are aggressive (out of control aggressive any way), I was just pointing out that we have bad in our species too..

I think I was carrying on a conversation that you hadn't necessarily been part of...my bad :lol:



SirHiss said:


> And that we do.
> 
> I'd still prioritize a child's life than that of an animals, I really, really would, could not live with my conscience if I did not. That does not mean I treat animals as disposable objects, it just means I wish to see others live a long and happy life and not cut short by some tragic accident, that could have possibly been prevented.
> 
> ...


For me it would depend on the situation at the time..I can not honestly say how I would react given a "choose one life over another", I don't have children and probably (most likely) never will so maybe I will think differently when/if I ever do.

Until (god forbid) someone is in the same situation that this mother found herself in then they have no understanding how they would react... I would hope that any mother would choose her child over any other living thing so no matter what the thoughts are on the story behind this tragedy, or who's "fault" it appears to be ANY mother would/should do whatever it takes to save their child..


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Your exact words were: "where humans and animals are valued equally, they are not". So you are now saying that humans are animals.
> 
> And I do everything I can to be friendly to the environment!
> 
> ...


I take it you are vegan?


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> No, you are being offensive by being callous and insensitive to the horrible death of an innocent little child


Go and have another read of my first post on this thread and point out exactly where I was callous and insensitive. None of my posts since have been in relation to the sad death of Lexi.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> *Your exact words were: "where humans and animals are valued equally, they are not". So you are now saying that humans are animals. *
> I try my best not to engage with moronic rhetoric
> 
> And I do everything I can to be friendly to the environment!
> ...


I hope you are young enough to apply this passion towards practical mitigation of the issues you describe, rather than peddle a weary and disengaging ideaology that offers no practical solutions.


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

How tragic  

RIP little one


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Go and have another read of my first post on this thread and point out exactly where I was callous and insensitive. None of my posts since have been in relation to the sad death of Lexi.


But that is the purpose of this thread!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Go and have another read of my first post on this thread and point out exactly where I was callous and insensitive. None of my posts since have been in relation to the sad death of Lexi.


I don't need to re-read once was enough - it makes you want to scream that a child is thought of as more important than a dog!

then you go on to rant about humans being the scourge of the planet, global warming etc if you don't know that is inappropriate on a thread about a childs death then there is no point talking to you


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

BessieDog said:


> I take it you are vegan?


And don't own pets- lots of people think owning pets is VERY unenvironmentally friendly- lots of resources they use up!


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Your exact words were: "where humans and animals are valued equally, they are not". So you are now saying that humans are animals.


Get a grip. 
Stating that humans and animals are not valued equally does not equate to saying that humans are not animals. It just means that right or wrong, in the world we live in, animals of the human variety are valued more than animals of the dog variety.

Understanding this does not mean you don't value dogs or any other animal that is not human, it just means you are aware of the realities of the society you live in. I value my dogs greatly, while also being acutely aware that if they presented a risk to humans, their own lives are far more at risk than if they presented a risk to the bunnies and other woodland critters they do happen to present a risk to.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> For me it would depend on the situation at the time..I can not honestly say how I would react given a "choose one life over another", I don't have children and probably (most likely) never will so maybe I will think differently when/if I ever do.
> 
> Until (god forbid) someone is in the same situation that this mother found herself in then they have no understanding how they would react... I would hope that any mother would choose her child over any other living thing so no matter what the thoughts are on the story behind this tragedy, or who's "fault" it appears to be ANY mother would/should do whatever it takes to save their child..


I am a mum. There is absolutely no way I'd put an animals life before that of a childs, and I hope if I ever found myself in an awful situation like this no one would be thinking of my dog or anyone elses, when human life is at risk, especially a vibrant young life that has absolutely no defense, how can you think of a dog that is trying or/and done it's best to snuff it out ? 

I can't think of the dog responsible for the attack on poor little Lexi. I can only think of poor Lexi, how terrified she must have been


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

Hav'nt read through this entire thread but just wanted to say that despite my whole lfe being dedicated to my dogs for me it's simply a no brainier, any dog that kills a child should be PTS. 

Children and dogs are NOT equal and it's a strange view of the world that believes they are !


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Get a grip.
> Stating that humans and animals are not valued equally does not equate to saying that humans are not animals. It just means that right or wrong, in the world we live in, animals of the human variety are valued more than animals of the dog variety.
> 
> Understanding this does not mean you don't value dogs or any other animal that is not human, it just means you are aware of the realities of the society you live in. I value my dogs greatly, while also being acutely aware that if they presented a risk to humans, their own lives are far more at risk than if they presented a risk to the bunnies and other woodland critters they do happen to present a risk to.


Once again succinct and to the point- darn you ya wee wordsmith!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> I am a mum.  There is absolutely no way I'd put an animals life before that of a childs, and I hope if I ever found myself in an awful situation like this no one would be thinking of my dog or anyone elses, when human life is at risk, especially a vibrant young life that has absolutely no defense, how can you think of a dog that is trying or/and done it's best to snuff it out ?
> 
> I can't think of the dog responsible for the attack on poor little Lexi. I can only think of poor Lexi, how terrified she must have been


Personally I think of both, they were both failed, and they both lost their lives in a horrific way :frown2:

Please don't think I am saying the mother shouldn't have done what she did, she is a mother, she was acting on instinct and was doing her best to save her child.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> Personally I think of both, they were both failed, and they both lost their lives in a horrific way :frown2:
> 
> Please don't think I am saying the mother shouldn't have done what she did, she is a mother, she was acting on instinct and was doing her best to save her child.


I do agree. Sounds like there was blame on both sides, the dog should not have been there in the first place according to the terms and conditions of the tenancy, the pound should have done more stringent checks. Tragic, tragic accident, whichever way you look at it 

Mum was just trying to preserve the life of what is the most precious thing in the world and I for one don't blame her for having done it


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Turns out the little girl was attacked by a 'bulldog', not a DDB. From the photos it looks more Staffy x


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## jonb (Nov 15, 2012)

very sad


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

Hanwombat said:


> Turns out the little girl was attacked by a 'bulldog', not a DDB. From the photos it looks more Staffy x


I would've said more American bulldog tbh


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

RockRomantic said:


> I would've said more American bulldog tbh


I'm not very good with bull types


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## DogManDan (Oct 28, 2013)

RIP little lexi ... may you shine bright up above 

lets all be friends here for lexi guys  no need to go on a heated argument


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

This paper reports it wasn't a D.D.B but a bull type dog that killed her, police are doing tests on the dog to determine what it was. Why do papers report facts that aren't true.

Leicester girl dies after being bitten by dog in Mountsorrel | Mail Online


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

mummyschnauzer said:


> This paper reports it wasn't a D.D.B but a bull type dog that killed her, police are doing tests on the dog to determine what it was. *Why do papers report facts that aren't true. *
> 
> Leicester girl dies after being bitten by dog in Mountsorrel | Mail Online


Because little things like facts don't sell papers :frown2:


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

I have actually just spotted something. Was this dog, from the pound, or from rescue ? Or, is it one place, operating as both 

There is a rescue link at the bottom of the page, website is offline at the moment, for updating.

http://www.willowtreedogrescueleicestershire.org/

Their facebook page has also disappeared in the last few hours


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> *I have actually just spotted something. Was this dog, from the pound, or from rescue ? Or, is it one place, operating as both *
> 
> There is a rescue link at the bottom of the page, website is offline at the moment, for updating.
> 
> ...


It's a council run pound/boarding kennels trying their luck in the rescue world.

Both the website and fb page have been pulled due to the ongoing investigation... I would imagine they have been bombarded with people since their name was made public.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> It's a council run pound/boarding kennels trying their luck in the rescue world.
> 
> Both the website and fb page have been pulled due to the ongoing investigation... I would imagine they have been bombarded with people since their name was made public.


I would imagine so too. Just read the council have confirmed the dog was found wandering in a local park back in August. So, no history on the dog at all. Can't believe somewhere can have been so careless :frown2:



> Leicester City Council confirmed the dog was found wandering in a park in August before being taken to the kennels.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> I would imagine so too. Just read the council have confirmed the dog was found wandering in a local park back in August. So, no history on the dog at all. Can't believe somewhere can have been so careless :frown2:


Hate to say it, but myself and a few rescue contacts have been saying for a while now that this was waiting to happen with all these "slap dash" rescues 

And the really sad thing (apart from what has happened of course) is that this will only put the general public off rescue dogs :frown2:


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Why are folks having a go at each other for goodness sake this is a thread about a little girl that has died its not about who is more important in this world humans versus dogs Its about a little pretty 4 year old who was killed by a dog and her mum had to stab the dog to try and save her child 
OK the rescue place should not have allowed this dog to go to a flat with a young child but the fact is it did so I don't see any point is people having a row with each other 
I am so sad this has happened that a child has lost her life that a dog died because of some idiot that thought its ok to let this family have this dog when it had been roaming the streets and the rescue place obviously knew nothing about the dogs background


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## Ann Elizabeth (May 12, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> I have actually just spotted something. Was this dog, from the pound, or from rescue ? Or, is it one place, operating as both
> 
> There is a rescue link at the bottom of the page, website is offline at the moment, for updating.
> 
> ...


Having looked at the website earlier I think it is a business that has set up another 'trading arm -business' from what I read they are contracted to local authority to hold stray dogs - a pound, for 7 days and then I assume uses unclaimed dogs as 'stock' for this new business, the website gives little information on any of the dogs to be rehomed.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

One of the reports said the dog was previously a stray, Daily Mirror I think


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> Hate to say it, but myself and a few rescue contacts have been saying for a while now that this was waiting to happen with all these "slap dash" rescues
> 
> And the really sad thing (apart from what has happened of course) is that this will only put the general public off rescue dogs :frown2:


I'll still take in rescue dogs, this tragic incident hasn't put me off at all, lovely dogs that have done nothing at all, will still continue to need homes, regardless. I don't think it will put the majority off that prefer to rescue, they just may be more careful where they go, choosing actual rescues, over poundies.

Can't help but think under these circumstances the council ought to revoke whatever license they gave to this place, clearly, whatever checks (or not) they had in place, just weren't enough to prevent this tragedy.

Ann Elizabeth, if that's what this place are doing, it had not ought to be allowed, just plain wrong


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

If this boarding kennel was just a holding place for pound dogs doing their 7 days, then I didnt think homechecks are assessments of dogs were done?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Julesky said:


> I'm pretty sceptical of this theory- loads of dogs are spooked by fireworks, some out on walks , some in the house. Doesn't mean they that launching themselves on people.
> 
> Of course I can understand that a surprise like a firework could unhinge an animal- but I reckon there would be more precursors to the final behaviour of the dog than firework fear- but then who knows


Totally agree, it's a poor excuse IMO



SirHiss said:


> I'll still take in rescue dogs, this tragic incident hasn't put me off at all, lovely dogs that have done nothing at all, will still continue to need homes, regardless. I don't think it will put the majority off that prefer to rescue, they just may be more careful where they go, choosing actual rescues, over poundies.
> 
> Can't help but think under these circumstances the council ought to revoke whatever license they gave to this place, clearly, whatever checks (or not) they had in place, just weren't enough to prevent this tragedy.
> 
> Ann Elizabeth, if that's what this place are doing, it had not ought to be allowed, just plain wrong


I will still be adopting rescue dogs too


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Leanne77 said:


> If this boarding kennel was just a holding place for pound dogs doing their 7 days, then I didnt think homechecks are assessments of dogs were done?


Hi, no I looked it and the facebook page up this morning- it was rehoming dogs too after the 7 days- because they had a contract with council not allowed to call it charity but also not allowed to ask for money think it was suggested donation for rehoming a dog.

You are not allowed to rehome a dog before the 7/8 days.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> I'll still take in rescue dogs, this tragic incident hasn't put me off at all, lovely dogs that have done nothing at all, will still continue to need homes, regardless. I don't think it will put the majority off that prefer to rescue, they just may be more careful where they go, choosing actual rescues, over poundies.
> 
> Can't help but think under these circumstances the council ought to revoke whatever license they gave to this place, clearly, whatever checks (or not) they had in place, just weren't enough to prevent this tragedy.
> 
> Ann Elizabeth, if that's what this place are doing, it had not ought to be allowed, just plain wrong


I wish I had your faith 
I don't tend to class anyone on this forum as the "gen public" tbh, people here are dog lovers, not dog likers so they (hopefully) will take things at face value and then do their own research...where as the gen public just grasp the first thing they hear and run with it...

My newsfeed is already full of people using this as a justification for buying pups from less than desirable places. It would seem some are now saying that buying from a puppy farm is better than rescue when you have kids at home :frown2:

But I digress, this thread isn't about the rescue situation and I don't want to take things off on a tangent


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Leanne77 said:


> If this boarding kennel was just a holding place for pound dogs doing their 7 days, then I didnt think homechecks are assessments of dogs were done?


Before the site was taken down it gave info including that the dogs were flea'd, wormed & chipped, their cost to buy (£50-£100) & that they were 'assessed' over a 7 day period (same as the holding time), so I can't see how they would get an accurate idea about what the dog is really like in such a short time.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Hi, no I looked it and the facebook page up this morning- it was rehoming dogs too after the 7 days- because they had a contract with council not allowed to call it charity but also not allowed to ask for money think it was suggested donation for rehoming a dog.
> 
> You are not allowed to rehome a dog before the 7/8 days.


The way I understood it, from being on rescue forums, was that pound dogs were waiting to be claimed by their owners. After their waiting time was up, many still stayed until scheduled to be PTS. During this time alot were looking for rescue spaces where a rescue would take the dog from the pound, assess it and homecheck potential adopters. But they could also be adopted straight from the pound if you caught them before being PTS, in which case no assessment or homecheck was done.

There is a similar kennels down the road from me. They are boarding kennels but also a pound for the council. They have dogs for adoption on their pages but there is never any info on temperament or any info regarding homechecks. The dogs still have numbers rather than names too.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Leanne77 said:


> The way I understood it, from being on rescue forums, was that pound dogs were waiting to be claimed by their owners. After their waiting time was up, many still stayed until scheduled to be PTS. During this time alot were looking for rescue spaces where a rescue would take the dog from the pound, assess it and homecheck potential adopters. But they could also be adopted straight from the pound if you caught them before being PTS, in which case no assessment or homecheck was done.
> 
> There is a similar kennels down the road from me. They are boarding kennels but also a pound for the council. They have dogs for adoption on their pages but there is never any info on temperament or any info regarding homechecks. The dogs still have numbers rather than names too.


Yeah me too, until this morning- no they had set up a willow tree rhoming centre- this took the pound dogs and gave them names and tried to rehome them.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Leanne77 said:


> The way I understood it, from being on rescue forums, was that pound dogs were waiting to be claimed by their owners. After their waiting time was up, many still stayed until scheduled to be PTS. During this time alot were looking for rescue spaces where a rescue would take the dog from the pound, assess it and homecheck potential adopters. But they could also be adopted straight from the pound if you caught them before being PTS, in which case no assessment or homecheck was done.
> 
> There is a similar kennels down the road from me. They are boarding kennels but also a pound for the council. They have dogs for adoption on their pages but there is never any info on temperament or any info regarding homechecks. *The dogs still have numbers rather than names too.*


I've seen loads of poundies (many with numbers rather than names) advertised for adoption on Pets4Homes


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

It is a dreadful thing to happen. No matter what else comes out, this poor child's mother has to, not only live with the most overwhelming grief, but also the incredible guilt that she brought this dog into her home in the first place.

We don't know all the circumstances yet and if there is someone at fault somewhere along the line, then no doubt they will be dealt with appropriately - but also sometimes accidents just happen and no-one can foresee the future.

My thoughts are with the little girl's family and friends.


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

SirHiss said:


> I have actually just spotted something. Was this dog, from the pound, or from rescue ? Or, is it one place, operating as both
> 
> There is a rescue link at the bottom of the page, website is offline at the moment, for updating.
> 
> ...


It was on the telly tonight, it was a bull type dog that killed the little girl, mother did kill it with a kitchen knife, and the Dog Sanctuary have admitted they re-homed the dog to this family. Reports are now saying "FIREWORKS COULD HAVE BEEN THE REASON WHY THE DOG ATTACKED"

Guidelines as follows:-

A guide to family safety around dogs - ITV News


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## ButterflyLordette (Nov 3, 2013)

DT said:


> Terrible, a young life taken so soon,
> And should not be commenting without knowing the 'full' facts but concerned to read - The dog died shortly after the attack but police did not say how -
> 
> As I said, not knowing the facts should not jump the gun but one has to wonder if the dog were left alone with the child.


Just heard on the news that the dog was a rescue and was only at the home a few weeks, they said that the owners frantically tried to save the girl by frequently stabbing the dog. :L Thoughts to the family x


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## mummyschnauzer (Sep 30, 2008)

StormyThai said:


> Hate to say it, but myself and a few rescue contacts have been saying for a while now that this was waiting to happen with all these "slap dash" rescues
> 
> And the really sad thing (apart from what has happened of course) is that this will only put the general public off rescue dogs :frown2:


Also what must be taking into consideration here is the flat where the mother and daughter lived had a "NO DOGS" ruling, under the RENTAL AGREEMENT TERMS, where they were residing. !!!!!!! that's possibly why the neighbours didn't see her walking the dog much.

There has been a lot of Adult mistakes, in the run up to this tragedy, and the one thing that should have been nurtured and protected is now sadly but tragically dead a poor innocent child in this sad event.


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## PapillonBezza (Apr 30, 2013)

mummyschnauzer said:


> Also what must be taking into consideration here is the flat where the mother and daughter lived had a "NO DOGS" ruling, under the RENTAL AGREEMENT TERMS, where they were residing. !!!!!!! that's possibly why the neighbours didn't see her walking the dog much.
> 
> There has been a lot of Adult mistakes, in the run up to this tragedy, and the one thing that should have been nurtured and protected is now sadly but tragically dead a poor innocent child in this sad event.


Couldn't agree more. Well said.

It is a tragedy and I feel for the poor mother, but I cannot help but think to myself that this is a tragedy that could have been avoided and this was clearly the wrong dog in the wrong home.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

Originally Posted by mummyschnauzer 


> There has been a lot of Adult mistakes, in the run up to this tragedy, and the one thing that should have been nurtured and protected is now sadly but tragically dead a poor innocent child in this sad event.


The dog deserved these things too, at every point in its life, but likely went without. 
It also died a horrible death as a result of people's poor decisions.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I think there's fault with the "rescue" for not properly assessing the dog to them deem it child friendly based on 7 days is just daft.

I think there's fault with the mother too, who of course has the worst end of this now having to live her life without her daughter, it was in a 1 bedroom flat, from what neighbors report not often walked, no garden to run in so of course built up energy has to go somewhere. Sadly the little girl was in the wrong place with the wrong dog. I have no doubt the mother is blaming herself now but the rescue too is at fault and shouldn't have titled the dog as child friendly without assessment. 

I really wish all rescues would assess dogs fully before giving them the "children/dog/cat" friendly label.


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## Gil3987 (Aug 1, 2008)

Oh my god, i cannot even imagine what that woman is going through my little girl is 3 years and 4 months and i cannot imagine anything happening to her, let alone it being something i could have potentially changed the outcome of having made a different decision  i couldnt imagine having to live with the grief and the guilt of what has happened. she was a gorgeous little girl and it is such a tragic event  i just hope that all involved get the support that is needed.

RIP little Lexi

Im in tears writing this


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Muze said:


> The dog deserved these things too, at every point in its life, but likely went without.
> It also died a horrible death as a result of people's poor decisions.


And don't forget the child's death and the dog's death will be on the conscience of someone else involved in all this - the person who allowed the dog to stray originally, and would not or could not claim it back from the pound. I can't see how they'd fail to recognise it.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

We can nurture and teach kids all we now but do they really understand and respect dog behaviour? Unless it is tought from a young age attacks like this will keep on happening.

At the best of times most adults can not identify the most basic stress signals from dogs so how is a child expected to?

If stress signals in dogs were taught to kids from an early age it could help save their lifes in the future.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Terrible situation for both dog and family but I wish the news would get it right regarding the breed of dog! in the paper it shows Dog De bordeau and on our news tonight it showed a British Bulldogso now people are going to think the Bulldog is at fault


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

There RE 2 Pics of Lexi with that huge dog, one seen earlier and 1 in a room with a tiled floor,yet not the dog that killed her


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> There RE 2 Pics of Lexi with that huge dog, one seen earlier and 1 in a room with a tiled floor,yet not the dog that killed her


Its a DDB no? That was the first dog picture which killed her.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

Prowl said:


> Its a DDB no? That was the first dog picture which killed her.


Was a Bulldog type I believe which was responsible for the attack, not a Dogue De Bordeaux, the Bordeaux seen in the photo's I've read belonged to Lexi's uncle.


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## PapillonBezza (Apr 30, 2013)

Muze said:


> Originally Posted by mummyschnauzer
> 
> The dog deserved these things too, at every point in its life, but likely went without.
> It also died a horrible death as a result of people's poor decisions.


Again, totally agree. I am fed up of seeing poor dogs who are a product of sub standard care. They may not have been neglected or mistreated in the conventional sense, but people who really don't know how to properly care for a dog or train in properly is just as much mistreatment in my books. It's why I don't breed - there are too many people out there who don't fully think through their decisions regarding their dogs and I don't think I could trust many people to care for a pup I bred the way I would.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Prowl said:


> We can nurture and teach kids all we now but do they really understand and respect dog behaviour? Unless it is tought from a young age attacks like this will keep on happening.
> 
> At the best of times most adults can not identify the most basic stress signals from dogs so how is a child expected to?
> 
> If stress signals in dogs were taught to kids from an early age it could help save their lifes in the future.


But the child was asleep!



Kinjilabs said:


> Terrible situation for both dog and family but I wish the news would get it right regarding the breed of dog! in the paper it shows Dog De bordeau and on our news tonight it showed a British Bulldogso now people are going to think the Bulldog is at fault


The police have confirmed it was a bulldog. The DDB was never said to be the dog that did it, just a photo of the child with one.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

Muze said:


> The dog deserved these things too, at every point in its life, but likely went without.
> It also died a horrible death as a result of people's poor decisions.





PapillonBezza said:


> Again, totally agree. I am fed up of seeing poor dogs who are a product of sub standard care. They may not have been neglected or mistreated in the conventional sense, but people who really don't know how to properly care for a dog or train in properly is just as much mistreatment in my books. It's why I don't breed - there are too many people out there who don't fully think through their decisions regarding their dogs and I don't think I could trust many people to care for a pup I bred the way I would.


Whilst I do agree. It's very hard to say whether or not the dog was well cared for in it's last home, it had only been there for a very short time.

Really really hard to lay the blame at the last owners feet, especially now, it killed her poor child.

Yes, the dog should not have been there, Yes the pound is to blame as much equally, the dog was only taken there in August and rehomed within weeks to what should have been a child free home as it was a huge powerful breed with no history.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

I was confused a news report on the radio said it was a Bulldog but all the newspapers have e a pic of a DDB why do they do this so misleading???? The report also said that the little girl was ill and asleep on the sofa the Dog attacked her the mum tried to get the Dog off her daughter she couldn't so she got a knife and stabbed the Dog a tragic heartbreaking event absolutely devastating.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MerlinsMum said:


> And don't forget the child's death and the dog's death will be on the conscience of someone else involved in all this - the person who allowed the dog to stray originally, and would not or could not claim it back from the pound. I can't see how they'd fail to recognise it.


Probably couldn't give a toss! if my dog were missing Id be walking the streets until it were found


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## PapillonBezza (Apr 30, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> Whilst I do agree. It's very hard to say whether or not the dog was well cared for in it's last home, it had only been there for a very short time.
> 
> Really really hard to lay the blame at the last owners feet, especially now, it killed her poor child.
> 
> Yes, the dog should not have been there, Yes the pound is to blame as much equally, the dog was only taken there in August and rehomed within weeks to what should have been a child free home as it was a huge powerful breed with no history.


I agree here as well. Perhaps my post was a little misleading, but the problems with this particular dog are clearly not the fault of one human, but rather a collection - the breeder for not placing more carefully, the original owners, the rescue centre and the woman who re homed it.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

PapillonBezza said:


> I agree here as well. Perhaps my post was a little misleading, but the problems with this particular dog are clearly not the fault of one human, but rather a collection - the breeder for not placing more carefully, the original owners, the rescue centre and the woman who re homed it.


Right now, all we have is a few confirmed facts, the dog came from the pound, the pound rehoused the dog to a woman with a small child in a one bedroom flat, a dog that should not have been there according to the terms of the tenancy agreement (no dogs in flats).

I find it very hard to blame poor Lexi's mum, maybe she was a lot naive, thought she was doing a kind deed, placed more trust than she should have done in the pound that said 'the dog was safe with children' - in reality it could be any one of us with a rescue dog, or pound dog. Her only fault was taking the dog home, when it should not have been there.

People lie and tell mistruths all the time, I'm not saying the pound lied, I'm just saying, they could have taken a lot more care & maybe now re-evaluate people they have rehoused dogs to in similar circumstances and update their polices.

I hope in all honesty, their licence to operate as a pound is revoked.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Prowl said:


> We can nurture and teach kids all we now but do they really understand and respect dog behaviour? Unless it is tought from a young age attacks like this will keep on happening.
> 
> At the best of times most adults can not identify the most basic stress signals from dogs so how is a child expected to?
> 
> If stress signals in dogs were taught to kids from an early age it could help save their lifes in the future.


The child was in bed sleeping?........ How on earth does the above help, while I agree children should learn how to act round dogs, the final responsibility will ALWAYS be with the adults NEVER to put a child in a situation to have read "dogs stress signals" a child is that a child. These attacks have nothing to do with children being able to read dogs, and to say so is stupid!! Again the child was asleep.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

MerlinsMum said:


> And don't forget the child's death and the dog's death will be on the conscience of someone else involved in all this - the person who allowed the dog to stray originally, and would not or could not claim it back from the pound. I can't see how they'd fail to recognise it.


I do wonder whether it was allowed to stray (or kicked out) because it had shown vicious tendencies and they didn't know what to do with it!


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

Meezey said:


> The child was in bed sleeping?........ How on earth does the above help, while I agree children should learn how to act round dogs, the final responsibility will ALWAYS be with the adults NEVER to put a child in a situation to have read "dogs stress signals" a child is that a child. These attacks have nothing to do with children being able to read dogs, and to say so is stupid!! Again the child was asleep.


Agree. There is absolutely no way a child as young as 5 would understand or be able to read stress signals, some adults struggle. Children for most part of that age are only just learning to read and write, never mind read and be able to grasp whats going on in a dogs mind.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

SirHiss said:


> Agree. There is absolutely no way a child as young as 5 would understand or be able to read stress signals, some adults struggle. Children for most part of that age are only just learning to read and write, never mind read and be able to grasp whats going on in a dogs mind.


It's very possible that the mum herself may not have known how to read stress signals either, many adults still don't, as the thousands of 'cute' or 'funny' pictures & videos on the internet showing very stressed dogs being forced to interact with children show :frown2:


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> It's very possible that the mum herself may not have known how to read stress signals either, many adults still don't, as the thousands of 'cute' or 'funny' pictures & videos on the internet showing very stressed dogs being forced to interact with children show :frown2:


I know, my heart sinks every single time I see one. All I see is accidents waiting to happen, when other people view these things as a 'bit' of fun, or a 'joke'


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

If it is true the dog must have been severely mentally damaged. Why on earth attack a sleeping child!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> If it is true the dog must have been severely mentally damaged. Why on earth attack a sleeping child!


I doubt anyone will knows? I don't agree about it being severely mentally damaged though, there could have been a multitude of triggers and as the dog has an unknown history who will ever know


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I doubt the original owners would be bothered about getting it back as apparently the dog had a lot of scars, why? had the original owners done that,or was it used for fighting?, we might never know unless someone recognises it from where it lived previously
I really cant understand why anyone would want that breed of dog with a child anyway, it wouldn't be one I would pick to live with a young child, a small fluffy one with gentle nature would be my choice


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> If it is true the dog must have been severely mentally damaged. Why on earth attack a sleeping child!


Since yesterday I have read many articles, seen the interviews on TV. All eye witnesses saying the same, the dog was badly scarred, so god knows what had happened to her during her life. If that is true, on that basis alone, the dog should not have been rehoused to a small home which had children present


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I doubt the original owners would be bothered about getting it back as apparently the dog had a lot of scars, why? had the original owners done that,or was it used for fighting?, we might never know unless someone recognises it from where it lived previously
> I really cant understand why anyone would want that breed of dog with a child anyway, it wouldn't be one I would pick to live with a young child, a small fluffy one with gentle nature would be my choice


I don't understand them taking in a rescue dog with no history,but while you might not understand it and it might not be your choice plenty of people have "that" breed of dog with children and they are no more of an issue that your choice of a small fluffy dog!


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I doubt the original owners would be bothered about getting it back as apparently the dog had a lot of scars, why? had the original owners done that,or was it used for fighting?, we might never know unless someone recognises it from where it lived previously
> I really cant understand why anyone would want that breed of dog with a child anyway, it wouldn't be one I would pick to live with a young child, a small fluffy one with gentle nature would be my choice


On the flipside, there are many, many large and powerful breeds that are noted for being excellent with children. Great Danes, St Bernards, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Newfoundlands, Wolfhounds, the list goes on.

I choose a dog on it's own merits, not what it happens to look like, if we were in a position to offer another a home, I'd take the dog regardless of breed if it was the right one for our situation.


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I think to take on a rescue dog with no history, and a huge powerful one at that, is about as irresponsible as driving your children around in a car that had dodgy brakes or worn out tyres without seat belts! I feel so sorry for all concerned, even the poor dog, but they should never have been allowed to adopt him.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with the breed, but I wouldn't have an adult rescue of that breed, or probably any large breed with a young child, at least if a smaller dog attacked it wouldnt have done as much damage, not knocking the breed as such, I know someone with a bulldog with children,but she had it from a pup, but as an adult rescue , no, and that dog wasn't right for that situation was it?


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> There is nothing wrong with the breed, but I wouldn't have an adult rescue of that breed, or probably any large breed with a young child, at least if a smaller dog attacked it wouldnt have done as much damage, not knocking the breed as such, I know someone with a bulldog with children,but she had it from a pup, but as an adult rescue , no


I have a small little poundie dog, weighs 6lbs. I'm under absolutely no illusion should he choose to the damage to a small child could be just as great had the same child been attacked by a large dog. They all have teeth, they can all kill.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

SirHiss said:


> I have a small little poundie dog, weighs 6lbs. I'm under absolutely no illusion should he choose to the damage to a small child could be just as great had the same child been attacked by a large dog. They all have teeth, they can all kill.


But in all honesty I don't think Teebs could do as much damage with one bite as Flynn could - in fact I know he couldn't and that dogs head was twice the size of the child's - didn't stand a chance.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Malmum said:


> But in all honesty I don't think Teebs could do as much damage with one bite as Flynn could - in fact I know he couldn't and that dogs head was twice the size of the child's - didn't stand a chance.


I don't think my little dog could do as much damage as my larger dog, still, all it takes is a bite in the wrong place for it to be severe and life threatening to a small child no matter how big or small the dog was.
Although I wouldn't struggle at all to pull a 6lb dog off all it takes is a split second for the damage to be done


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> There is nothing wrong with the breed, but I wouldn't have an adult rescue of that breed, or probably any large breed with a young child, at least if a smaller dog attacked it wouldnt have done as much damage, not knocking the breed as such, I know someone with a bulldog with children,but she had it from a pup, but as an adult rescue , no, and that dog wasn't right for that situation was it?


You are aware a JRT killed a child? 
As I said I don't think taking an adult is something just anyone should do!

Not to nitpick but your comment was you don't understand why "anyone would want that breed of dog" nothing said about adult rescue dogs !


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> There is nothing wrong with the breed, but I wouldn't have an adult rescue of that breed, or probably any large breed with a young child, at least if a smaller dog attacked it wouldnt have done as much damage, not knocking the breed as such, I know someone with a bulldog with children,but she had it from a pup, but as an adult rescue , no, and that dog wasn't right for that situation was it?


We took on an adult great dane with no history (other than he had been feral and it took them months to catch him). And we had small children in the house.

Granted, we have more than your average experience and resources, but still, I dont think its helpful or accurate to make sweeping generalizations about breeds, and rescue dogs like that.

IME a dogs bite inhibition, inherent temperament, thresholds, tolerances etc. matter far more than size in whether or not that dog is a safe family dog. 
I have an 80 pound mutt dog (who probably has some bully breed in him) who had a visiting child fall on him while he was eating his dinner. The child was doing a cartwheel, crashed and fell on top of the dog. They both collapsed on to the floor, the dog grunted, extricated himself out from under the child, licked her once, and then went back to finish his meal. 
Another child I know, tripped over a mini dachshund, fell on the dog, and ended up with multiple bites to her face and ear requiring reconstructive surgery. 
Both very similar situations, yet it wasnt the size of the dog that determined the damage. Also rather interestingly, though I dont know the dachshunds history, the mutt dog was not raised in this home as a pup - he was an adult rescue from a mostly unknown past. How bout that?


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I assumed as we are talking about rescue dogs that anyone would realize I meant a "RESCUE" dog, and a small doig can do a lot of damage I know, but couldn't have picked a child that size up and shaken her in its mouth, she would have most likely had a chance of just being injured not killed
I am not against any breed of dog large or small, but personally would not have chosen a dog that size.regardless of breed, if that makes it any clearer,
I believe that any dog can turn, but it is the way they are brought up and treated by the owners,
The dog that killed that little girl could have been a fighting dog,or a dog used for baiting, but obviously badly treated,if it was badly scarred so who knows what triggered the attack, might have been a banger, that sounded like a gun, who knows
For anyone who thinks I am picking on certain breeds I am not, but certain breeds, of certain size in certain situations


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I assumed as we are talking about rescue dogs that anyone would realize I meant a "RESCUE" dog, and a small doig can do a lot of damage I know, but couldn't have picked a child that size up and shaken her in its mouth, she would have most likely had a chance of just being injured not killed
> I am not against any breed of dog large or small, but personally would not have chosen a dog that size.regardless of breed, if that makes it any clearer,
> I believe that any dog can turn, but it is the way they are brought up and treated by the owners,
> The dog that killed that little girl could have been a fighting dog,or a dog used for baiting, but obviously badly treated,if it was badly scarred so who knows what triggered the attack, might have been a banger, that sounded like a gun, who knows
> For anyone who thinks I am picking on certain breeds I am not, but certain breeds, of certain size in certain situations


My example above your post was of a RESCUE dog.

Its not as simple as any dog can turn. Its not as simple as its the way they are brought up. You can have a brilliantly bred dog, brought up under the best circumstances imaginable that ends up with some sort of seizure disorder or tumor and thats not going to be a safe dog. There are well-bred, well brought up dogs who have an inherent temperament that will never be appropriate for a home with children. There are just far too many complex combinations of factors that tie in to whether a dog is safe or not to make any kind of sweeping statement related to size, breed, or origin of the dog.


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

The point is this dog was huge! Once it attacked it was impossible to get him off the child, had it been a smaller dog the parents could have pulled it off, and the child's life would have been saved. I still find it very suspicious this dog attacked the child whilst asleep.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I obviously cant say anything right or its taken the wrong way, so I will leave this thread now, even the expert behaviourist has said any dog can turn
Bye


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> I do wonder whether it was allowed to stray (or kicked out) because it had shown vicious tendencies and they didn't know what to do with it!


I thought this too.

Its cheaper to abandon a dog than it is to take it to a vet to PTS.

Also, to have a dog PTS because someone either can't/won't look after it or maybe thinks it is a danger etc takes some guts and responsibility.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> It's very possible that the mum herself may not have known how to read stress signals either, many adults still don't, as the thousands of 'cute' or 'funny' pictures & videos on the internet showing very stressed dogs being forced to interact with children show :frown2:


It could also be that the stress signals were very fast and there was little time to react.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

All of this brings into question the effectiveness of the way we are dealing with the problem of so many dogs in rescues/pounds.

I can't see a day when it is under control. 

Whilst it is great to think that every dog can be rescued/rehabilitated/re-homed I believe that is actually pie in the sky and some very difficult decisions will eventually have to be made across the board.

Many of these dogs, IMO, are so physically and mentally scarred they cannot be rehomed. Do they deserve a life in kennels where their misery is prolonged?

Whatever happens, it will be innocent dogs that pay the price


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I doubt the original owners would be bothered about getting it back as apparently the dog had a lot of scars, why? had the original owners done that,or was it used for fighting?, we might never know unless someone recognises it from where it lived previously
> I really cant understand why anyone would want that breed of dog with a child anyway, it wouldn't be one I would pick to live with a young child, a small fluffy one with gentle nature would be my choice


We have a Bullmastiff, very large powerful girl..and we have grandchildren here every day.

There is always a risk with any dog and when you have a large powerful one like these you have to be very careful...no reason why you can't have a large dog and children though.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

ouesi said:


> We took on an adult great dane with no history (other than he had been feral and it took them months to catch him). And we had small children in the house.
> 
> Granted, we have more than your average experience and resources, but still, I dont think its helpful or accurate to make sweeping generalizations about breeds, and rescue dogs like that.
> 
> ...


we have a mini dakkie....my daughter got him as a 8 week old pup. He is a great little character, is not food/dog/people aggressive at all.but if a child fell on him and hurt him, I could see him snapping.

Bullmastiff is not food/dog/people aggressive at all and would probably just get out of the way. Difference is the amount of damage she could do in a nano second.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> We have a Bullmastiff, very large powerful girl..and we have grandchildren here every day.
> 
> There is always a risk with any dog and when you have a large powerful one like these you have to be very careful...no reason why you can't have a large dog and children though.


Agree, but if said dog has come from a dubious and unknown background you are increasing the chances of problems and you can never truly be as confident of it's likely behaviours/reactions as one you have brought up yourself.

Seeing it from the dog's point of view - maybe being rehomed to a home with noisy, excitable children is actually the scariest and cruellest thing to do. Alternatively, being rehomed to an adult home with calm, understanding and knowledge people would be heaven.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I agree with you.

In my own case the Bullmastiff came from exceptional breeders with many years experience of dogs and their breed.

I have grandchildren round here every day....but we are not noisy or boisterous usually and the dog is given respect.

Bullmastiffs temperament is fantastic, couldn't have asked for better..but I still don't take chances with her where kids are concerned.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> Agree, but if said dog has come from a dubious and unknown background you are increasing the chances of problems and you can never truly be as confident of it's likely behaviours/reactions as one you have brought up yourself.
> 
> Seeing it from the dog's point of view - maybe being rehomed to a home with noisy, excitable children is actually the scariest and cruellest thing to do. Alternatively, being rehomed to an adult home with calm, understanding and knowledge people would be heaven.


Unfortunately there just aren't enough of these sorts of homes around.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Which is why the rescue/rehab/rehome whatever the cost model is flawed.

We know the ultimate cost - the tragic death of an innocent child and the killing of a dog.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Asleep? How awfull :<


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> we have a mini dakkie....my daughter got him as a 8 week old pup. He is a great little character, is not food/dog/people aggressive at all.but if a child fell on him and hurt him, I could see him snapping.
> 
> Bullmastiff is not food/dog/people aggressive at all and would probably just get out of the way. Difference is the amount of damage she could do in a *nano second*.


One bite from any size dog that hits an artery- serious damage in a nano second- doesn't matter on the size of the dog .


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> We have a Bullmastiff, very large powerful girl..and we have grandchildren here every day.
> 
> There is always a risk with any dog and when you have a large powerful one like these you have to be very careful...no reason why you can't have a large dog and children though.


Totally agree... Ive had Akita's all my life along side my children.

It's about children respecting the dogs as much as the dogs respecting the family.
Oh and common sense would say what ever the breed no young children should be left alone with the dogs.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

I been sleeping on this, you know at the end of the day a dog is a dog, we expect them to conform, fit into our lifestyles, sometimes we are fed a merry dance, know very little of their backgrounds, yet we still welcome them and open up our homes, and expose them to our families 99.9% of the time it all works out, dog is happy, kids happy, mum & dad happy.

Then something like this happens and it's just so heartbreaking for the little lives lost, the whole world cries at the loss of a beautiful little life. I don't blame the dog, I don't blame the child so many people let them both down, still can't blame Lexi's mum at hard as some may find that to swallow, the only mistake she made was having the dog there when it wasn't supposed to be. I think we can all admit to things we should not have done, and mistakes we have made with our dogs 

I honestly do not know what the answer is, part of me don't want to see dogs being given to families so freely, on the other hand, I'd still like to rescue where possible, so would hate for blanket bans to happen where families are concerned. I don't like hearing of dogs being shut in kennels for months or years on end, I completely understand it is no life for them, yet don't wish to see dogs who have a chance, that have done nothing to be put to sleep either 

Maybe it would just be kinder, to place strays straight to sleep after their 7 days are up if their owners don't come forward, I'd hate to see this happen, harsh reality is no one knows really and honestly if these dogs are safe, no one can really ever vouch for them, hard as that is for me to take in as I glance down at my little poundie fast asleep  
Pounds have little time to assess these dogs and I can't help but think, had proper checks and assessments been in place, Lexi's mum would not have ended up with this dog and found herself in the sad situation she is now in 

We can't save them all, but we can save dogs and free up space for those that can be vouched for, those that have lived with families and present no real risk in the right homes, with proper checks in place. I'd like to see free-ads banned and the groups closed down on facebook and elsewhere too, in reality that's never going to happen, it's about time something did to ensure the naive and inexperienced can't take such deadly risks.

There are so many things that make me cringe when I hear about risks people are taking they really don't need to, taking in free to good home dogs, or dogs that have strayed and been found - I am well aware certain rescues watch out for these ad's and do their best to help, problem is most places are crammed, so where does it all end, and at what cost and to whom ?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> It's very possible that the mum herself may not have known how to read stress signals either, many adults still don't, as the thousands of 'cute' or 'funny' pictures & videos on the internet showing very stressed dogs being forced to interact with children show :frown2:


Very much so....
If anything good can come from this horrible story, is that after posting one of those stress signal memes on fb yesterday I had a pm sent to me.. It was sent by a rl friend that has an RR and kids, after looking at the meme I posted I think a switch flicked for her, because of that meme she sent me a lengthy pm describing Bollo's body language around her kids...
She has now been sent away with plenty of homework to work on to help Bollo feel more relaxed around the kids and she will be getting a behaviourist asap so that someone can help to guide her.

If it wasn't for this tragedy, then my friend may never have put two and two together, she may have ended up as a statisic 



jaycee05 said:


> I doubt the original owners would be bothered about getting it back as apparently the dog had a lot of scars, why? had the original owners done that,or was it used for fighting?, we might never know unless someone recognises it from where it lived previously
> *I really cant understand why anyone would want that breed of dog with a child anyway, it wouldn't be one I would pick to live with a young child, a small fluffy one with gentle nature would be my choice*


Just :frown2:
I see the backtracking in later replies


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Which is why the rescue/rehab/rehome whatever the cost model is flawed.
> 
> We know the ultimate cost - the tragic death of an innocent child and the killing of a dog.


The vast majority of responsible rescues do not follow that model.

People get very upset that dogs in rescues get put down- but often there is a reason- money, resources, effort- after assessment if a dog is not likely to find a suitable /responsible enough home to work through its issues then what options do places have?

Take up a space that a perfectly sound dog could have/ allow a tormented dog (stressed out by humans/other dogs/ traffic/noise/whatever) to keep on going with no real option for rehabilitation?

IT's a no win situation and decisions have to be made by people who didn't create the issue in the first place.

Breeders should be hit with some minimum standard for ensuring dogs have 'forever' homes , sound temperament & health and ensuring owners are educated and that unwanted dogs must be returned to them. It could be factored into the price of the puppy and they could have some type of certification/licence number that must be displayed on any advertising- let's face it scrupulous breeders of all dogs work on reputation- many already have litters booked out before the bitch has even been mated. Who would actually lose out here? If people had to really shell out/ invest time before they got their hands on a pup.

Accidental litters could be managed under some kind of declaration system.

I don't know- what I do not is this passing around of animals with no regard for their welfare is the crux of the issue


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Dingle said:


> Totally agree... Ive had Akita's all my life along side my children.
> 
> It's about children respecting the dogs as much as the dogs respecting the family.
> Oh and common sense would say what ever the breed no young children should be left alone with the dogs.


How does that work exactly??

How would you keep an eye on kids and the dog 24/7?

The fact is their are going to be times when dog and kids are going to be alone together and if they can be trusted alone together it makes wonder whats the point in owning a dog if the dog can not be trusted?

What quality of life does a dog who can not be trusted alone with kids will lead?

The only way to ensure children can be trusted around dogs is to teach them from a young age and make sure they are all taught.

In the situation the rescue is at foult and should be named and shamed for failing a propper assesment.


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

'I really cant understand why anyone would want that breed of dog with a child anyway, it wouldn't be one I would pick to live with a young child, a small fluffy one with gentle nature would be my choice'

Well as long as your careful and responsible why not? Lots and lots AND LOTS of people have large breeds and children without issues. Think of the amount of dog owners there is compared to how many situations like this happen. it's a small amount in comparison. You cannot tell me only small fluffy dogs are all lovely and sweetness. Large dogs can have gentle natures to, ANY dog can. :frown2: One thing that annoys me out of media publishing articles like this is the fact breeds get slated. 'Why have such a big dog' why this why that. 
My doberman (ex secuity) is by the far the gentlest dog i've met, i can be bias but how he is with children never fails my warm my heart, he goes from this clumsy dog that accidentally knocks stuff over as he walks to this gentle dog. he adores my stepsons and they adore him. We all do things different, small dogs arent for me, my dogs arent for some people. no need to slate them though. :frown2:

I read the article today Lexi Hudson's gran's fury at animal charity over rehomed bulldog that killed girl | Mail Online in which the grandma says she holds the kennels responsible but then goes on to say she doesn't know if they knew her daughter had a daughter  this is such a horrible story thats fetching out so many emotions in people, understandably. My heart goes out to that poor little girl


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Blitz said:


> But the child was asleep!
> 
> The police have confirmed it was a bulldog. The DDB was never said to be the dog that did it, just a photo of the child with one.


Small correction, the DDB was blamed from the ouset by everyone in the media. In fact the cover of yesterday's Mirror was a photo of the girl with the DDB stating it had killed her.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I cannot imagine what the family are going through, nor what that poor child suffered.

Ultimately both child and dog were let down by all the adults involved. The person who originally owned the dog; the pound who rehomed the dog to a one bed flat with a young child; and yes the poor mother who took on a very strong dog and then apparently failed to exercise it. 

Ghastly tragedy - R.I.P Lexie.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

What an awful situation for everyone involved. R.I.P Lexie  


Personally I wouldn't leave any breed of dog alone with a child. They all have the potential regardless of what size they are.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I cannot imagine what the family are going through, nor what that poor child suffered.
> 
> Ultimately both child and dog were let down by all the adults involved. The person who originally owned the dog; the pound who rehomed the dog to a one bed flat with a young child; and yes the poor mother who took on a very strong dog and then apparently failed to exercise it.
> 
> Ghastly tragedy - R.I.P Lexie.


How would you hold the original owner responsable?

I aggree the rescue are to blame if they new about Lexi however I find hard to believe a bulldog of all breeds would attack someone in their sleep.

I don't think we are being told the whole picture here as things just do not add up, stories are being mixed up.

I aggree the media named a DDB as the breed responsable originally and pictured the girl with the dog which was indeed a ddb!


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Prowl said:


> How would you hold the original owner responsable?


If the facts are correct, the dog was covered in scars. Hardly the sign of a caring owner and a loving home.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> If the facts are correct, the dog was covered in scars. Hardly the sign of a caring owner and a loving home.


Not heard that from anywhere.


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

SirHiss said:


> Whilst I do agree. It's very hard to say whether or not the dog was well cared for in it's last home, it had only been there for a very short time.
> 
> Really really hard to lay the blame at the last owners feet, especially now, it killed her poor child.
> 
> Yes, the dog should not have been there, Yes the pound is to blame as much equally, the dog was only taken there in August and rehomed within weeks to what should have been a child free home as it was a huge powerful breed with no history.


There is also the fact that there are so many of these bull type breeds being massively overbred and for completely the wrong reasons, with either no thought given to temperament - or worse still, bred for their aggressive tendencies.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

snoopydo said:


> I was confused a news report *on the radio said it was a Bulldog but all the newspapers have e a pic of a DDB why do they do this so misleading???? *The report also said that the little girl was ill and asleep on the sofa the Dog attacked her the mum tried to get the Dog off her daughter she couldn't so she got a knife and stabbed the Dog a tragic heartbreaking event absolutely devastating.


The press want the first picture of the child involved, with a dog (any dog), that they can lay their grasping hands on. The mother probably didn't feel up to digging out a photo of the correct dog with all that had happened, even if she were in a position to do so.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> I cannot imagine what the family are going through, nor what that poor child suffered.
> 
> Ultimately both child and dog were let down by all the adults involved. The person who originally owned the dog; the pound who rehomed the dog to a one bed flat with a young child; and yes the poor mother who took on a very strong dog and then apparently failed to exercise it.
> 
> Ghastly tragedy - R.I.P Lexie.





Prowl said:


> How would you hold the original owner responsable?
> 
> I aggree the rescue are to blame if they new about Lexi however I find hard to believe a bulldog of all breeds would attack someone in their sleep.
> 
> ...


Reality is the dog, probably had so many homes it would be so hard to pinpoint who is to blame and responsible for it, many reports saying the dog was very badly scarred, so who knows what may have happened to her - the dogs estimated age was 6-8 years we've seen how many homes a dog can go through on here as young as 6 months old, so just imagine how many homes a dog could have been passed onto at 6-8 years! Just don't bare thinking about.

I hate to say it, really do. You can't blame Lexi's mum, she was spun a yarn and probably never questioned it, why would she ? If all looked well throughout the rehoming process and the dog appeared to be well mannered and gentle with her child why would she not want to take it home ?
Her only fault is being naive in thinking she was being told the absolute truth, regarding a powerful breed, happens all the time, sadly.

As much as I hate to say it, the pound are entirely to blame as things stand right now, how are they qualified to assess a dog in 7 days and deem it perfectly safe to rehouse to a single mother with a small child ? Never mind the fact they rehomed it to a one bedroom flat that was probably barely big enough for Lexi and her mum ? It's wrong to state the dog was never exercised, we don't know that, neighbours had seen her with the dog and fussed the dog on several occasions so it's not as if she was hiding the dog away. Recent reports suggest the dog lived with Lexi and her mum for two months, if that really is the case the dog wasn't actually at the pound for really that long, only being taken there by the dog warden in August :mad2:


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

BessieDog said:


> If the facts are correct, the dog was covered in scars. Hardly the sign of a caring owner and a loving home.


Roaming the streets to be collected by the authorities, unclaimed after 7 days, also kind of tells me they were maybe not the best of owners!!
Myself and I and sure every other responsible owner would be frantically searching for a lost dog. Don`t know how this dog ended up in a pound but I would lay money on the fact it did not come from a loving and caring home.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

RockRomantic said:


> 'I really cant understand why anyone would want that breed of dog with a child anyway, it wouldn't be one I would pick to live with a young child, a small fluffy one with gentle nature would be my choice'
> 
> Well as long as your careful and responsible why not? Lots and lots AND LOTS of people have large breeds and children without issues. Think of the amount of dog owners there is compared to how many situations like this happen. it's a small amount in comparison. You cannot tell me only small fluffy dogs are all lovely and sweetness. Large dogs can have gentle natures to, ANY dog can. :frown2: One thing that annoys me out of media publishing articles like this is the fact breeds get slated. 'Why have such a big dog' why this why that.
> My doberman (ex secuity) is by the far the gentlest dog i've met, i can be bias but how he is with children never fails my warm my heart, he goes from this clumsy dog that accidentally knocks stuff over as he walks to this gentle dog. he adores my stepsons and they adore him. We all do things different, small dogs arent for me, my dogs arent for some people. no need to slate them though. :frown2:
> ...


I'm not sure if it's true as it's the Mail, obviously, but what sort of mother would even enquire about a particular dog if it's stated that it's not suitable to live with small children? Just reading that would have been enough to tell her not to take it on surely  I do feel for her, I really do, she's lost her little girl & will have to live with that forever now, but if she knew what she was taking on the blame does lay partly with her.


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

There are so many assumptions flying around in this thread 

Of course we can all speculate on why it happened, how it happened, who was to blame (if anyone), but until all the facts fully emerge then making assumptions is probably not helpful.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm not sure if it's true as it's the Mail, obviously, but what sort of mother would even enquire about a particular dog if it's stated that it's not suitable to live with small children? Just reading that would have been enough to tell her not to take it on surely  I do feel for her, I really do, she's lost her little girl & will have to live with that forever now, but if she knew what she was taking on the blame does lay partly with her.


Have to aggree with this.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm not sure if it's true as it's the Mail, obviously, but what sort of mother would even enquire about a particular dog if it's stated that it's not suitable to live with small children? Just reading that would have been enough to tell her not to take it on surely  I do feel for her, I really do, she's lost her little girl & will have to live with that forever now, but if she knew what she was taking on the blame does lay partly with her.


So many reports flying around, every one suggesting she had been told the 'dog was good with children' - again this latest article is probably media propaganda written purely for shock value as I don't believe any responsible parent would take such a huge risk after having had a preemie baby that fought to stay alive from the very beginning of her short little life


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

A dreadful catalogue of errors and lack of care tragically cost a child her life. I think the mum will be suffering enough so hate to say this, but yes, she is responsible for some of this. She homed a dog when a) she shouldn't have had a dog in the flat and b) in spite of having a notice saying not suitable with children she took on a dog without a history because the kennels said it would be ok! 
The kennels themselves are dubious in spite of having a council contract. The 'breeding' arm of their business is clearly a commercial breeder, only interested in making money even if it doesn't quite meet what people consider a puppy farm - every popular breed and cross breed bred, studs as well as scanning and (I was a bit gobsmacked by this) - AI for £25! Think they must use a turkey baster!

Ultimately, there were serious errors by all that should take responsibility the only innocent was the poor girl who lost her life.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

I do feel sorry for their whole family but they shouldn't of taken on a stray from a rescue, there are plenty of rescue dogs who have come from other homes where they have a much broader history so would be able to assess better whether they would be suitable in a family environment, where as a stray such as this dog has no available history so you cant say it would be ok to live with children especially if it was covered in scars as others have said.

My big problem reading from the article on MSN is the mother of the little boy that died in 2009 (I think this was the one whose child was killed by the uncles dog but not sure) is calling for all dogs to be muzzled around children under 12 which is absolutely ridiculous. I still believe most bites to children occur when people allow their kids to man handle and jump all over their 'family' pet, when in reality if they truly considered there dog a part of the family they would stop there children from treating them like a big toy and not expecting a reaction from them, my daughter is 3 and Apollo has never (touch wood) even snapped at Sophia even if she has accidently stepped on him, she is respectful to him, leaves him when he's sleeping, doesn't grab him, jump on him or get in his face, she plays fetch with him and they run around like loons together because they respect each other which is the way their relationship should be.

I feel incredibly sorry for this family for what they are going through, but there has to have been some kind of sign that the dog wasn't comfortable around the child and if it was a fighting dog before or was abused by its previous owners then something obviously triggered it to attack, I don't believe dogs just attack out of nowhere with no signs whether it be jealousy, fear or outward aggression


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Moobli said:


> There are so many assumptions flying around in this thread
> 
> Of course we can all speculate on why it happened, how it happened, who was to blame (if anyone), but until all the facts fully emerge then making assumptions is probably not helpful.


This. It gets to be a feeding frenzy of whos to blame, breed bashing, rescue bashing, in general bashing whatever is irritating you at the time.

Well probably never know exactly what happened. 
Its not usual or normal for a dog to behave this way. We dont have to start worrying about our own Fidos and Rovers to suddenly turn and do the same, any more than we need to worry about getting hit by a meteor on an evening walk. Its a freak, highly irregular, and tragic thing. 
Let it be....


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

Apollo2012 said:


> My big problem reading from the article on MSN is the mother of the little boy that died in 2009 (I think this was the one whose child was killed by the uncles dog but not sure) is calling for all dogs to be muzzled around children under 12 which is absolutely ridiculous.


i heard this, but how would it work around families with dogs and children? the dog be muzzled 24/7?  trying to find more about it, but it doesn't appear to have been thought out, at all.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

RockRomantic said:


> i heard this, but how would it work around families with dogs and children? the dog be muzzled 24/7?  trying to find more about it, but it doesn't appear to have been thought out, at all.


More to the point, how on earth would it be enforceable ? I'd flat out refuse to keep a dog muzzled 24/7 yet would accept muzzling while out in public just to appease those that called for it, as much as I would dislike it.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Prowl said:


> *How would you hold the original owner responsable? *
> 
> I aggree the rescue are to blame if they new about Lexi however I find hard to believe a bulldog of all breeds would attack someone in their sleep.
> 
> ...


The main thing I keep coming back to (not that I am laying blame anywhere tbh, it was a tragic event and laying blame won't help) is that the mother took home a dog that she could not handle... When I went to view Thai before bringing him home as well as all the other questions I needed to ask my main concern was "Can I walk him by myself?"
If I could not have held him, then he wouldn't have come home with me, as much as that feels horrible I could not put myself or anyone else at risk because I couldn't walk my dog....

If the mother had maybe taken a step back and had a think then maybe things would have been different...and that she will have to live with for the rest of her days 



ouesi said:


> This. It gets to be a feeding frenzy of whos to blame, breed bashing, rescue bashing, in general bashing whatever is irritating you at the time.
> 
> Well probably never know exactly what happened.
> Its not usual or normal for a dog to behave this way. We dont have to start worrying about our own Fidos and Rovers to suddenly turn and do the same, any more than we need to worry about getting hit by a meteor on an evening walk. Its a freak, highly irregular, and tragic thing.
> Let it be....


I wish the public thought like that, I have heard of 3 Am bulls PTS today...
One because the owner was pregnant...
One because the owner has grandkids...
One because the owner is an idiot...

All three have a common factor....all were bought on by the recent events and believe that one day their dogs will "turn" :frown2:


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

SirHiss said:


> More to the point, how on earth would it be enforceable ? I'd flat out refuse to keep a dog muzzled 24/7 yet would accept muzzling while out in public just to appease those that called for it, as much as I would dislike it.


They can't clearly, inside a property they can't do a thing. outside if they drive past unmuzzled then they can obviously say something. It just seems like a knee jerk reaction to be honest that hasn't been thought out yet SOME people seem to be supporting :shocked:


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Councils can't even keep track of all the chavs that randomly breed bull breeds to show off with or those that are used to fight with and "protect"

How on earth would they check to see if all dogs are muzzled when around children?

I certaily hope that doesn't become the case why should responsable owners suffer more because of a few idiots?


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

RockRomantic said:


> i heard this, but how would it work around families with dogs and children? the dog be muzzled 24/7?  trying to find more about it, but it doesn't appear to have been thought out, at all.


yeh I cant find anything else about muzzling around children but it isn't very well thought out at all, by all means if people feel the need to muzzle their dog around children then fine but it should by no means be a law.

I just read the articles about the boy in 2009 and it was the boy that was mauled by his uncles pit bull in his grandmothers home. reading the bbc news apparently this dog and another that was owned outright killed the owners 3rd dog, so they let a dog that had killed another animal and by their own admission was a 'powerful dog' around a child unsupervised?? they have no one to blame but themselves and it is ridiculous to tar all dogs with the same brush as one that was so aggressive that it killed another dog that it lived with


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Oh dear. It's now emerging the dog was an Aylestone Bulldog.

Lexi Branson grandmother&#039;s fury at rehoming centre who said killer stray bulldog was safe with children - Mirror Online


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

Jodi paid £100 for Aylestone bulldog Mulan after the rehoming centre advertised it with a photo on Facebook.

But when she went to the kennels, she was concerned at a sign warning it was unsuitable for children.

Staff assured her it would be OK for her and daughter Lexi as long as she didnt allow it to jump up.

:frown2: :frown2:

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk Lexi Branson grandmother&#039;s fury at rehoming centre who said killer stray bulldog was safe with children - Mirror Online 
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> Reality is the dog, probably had so many homes it would be so hard to pinpoint who is to blame and responsible for it, many reports saying the dog was very badly scarred, so who knows what may have happened to her - the dogs estimated age was 6-8 years we've seen how many homes a dog can go through on here as young as 6 months old, so just imagine how many homes a dog could have been passed onto at 6-8 years! Just don't bare thinking about.
> 
> I hate to say it, really do. You can't blame Lexi's mum, she was spun a yarn and probably never questioned it, why would she ? If all looked well throughout the rehoming process and the dog appeared to be well mannered and gentle with her child why would she not want to take it home ?
> Her only fault is being naive in thinking she was being told the absolute truth, regarding a powerful breed, happens all the time, sadly.
> ...


If my dog bit somebody it would be my fault and I would take full responsibilty for not removing that hazard and somebody got hurt.

God forbid my dog would kill somebody. That too would be my responsibilty.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Burrowzig said:


> The press want the first picture of the child involved, with a dog (any dog), that they can lay their grasping hands on. The mother probably didn't feel up to digging out a photo of the correct dog with all that had happened, even if she were in a position to do so.


I have seen a few comments suggesting that the picture was lifted from her Facebook page.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> If my dog bit somebody it would be my fault and I would take full responsibilty for not removing that hazard and somebody got hurt.
> 
> God forbid my dog would kill somebody. That too would be my responsibilty.


Hear hear...


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## x clo x (Feb 24, 2012)

i feel sorry for the family, and it is a tragedy. but its yet another case where its not the dog's fault. the owners should never have left the child with the dog alone, the woman should never have taken the dog on, that type of dog in a small flat with no exercise, what did they expect to happen?!

as for campaigners saying they want all dogs muzzled around children under the age of 12, sorry thats not happening. my dogs certainly wont be wearing a muzzle.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Prowl said:


> *How would you hold the original owner responsable? *
> 
> I aggree the rescue are to blame if they new about Lexi however I find hard to believe a bulldog of all breeds would attack someone in their sleep.
> 
> ...


How would you *not*?

Why was the dog in the pound? Why hadn't the first owner responsibly rehomed the dog OR taken measures if they already knew there was a history of aggression, *if* there indeed was...?

Why was the dog straying and never claimed?

I didn't say that only the first owner was to blame - just that they played a part in this tragedy. Which they most definitely did.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

x clo x said:


> i feel sorry for the family, and it is a tragedy. but its yet another case where its not the dog's fault. the owners should never have left the child with the dog alone, the woman should never have taken the dog on, that type of dog in a small flat with no exercise, what did they expect to happen?!
> 
> as for campaigners saying they want all dogs muzzled around children under the age of 12, sorry thats not happening. my dogs certainly wont be wearing a muzzle.


Accord to the articles she was not alone, she was poorly and in bed with her mum when the dog attacked. Again according to articles neighbours are quoted as saying the dog was walked


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Julesky said:


> I hope you are young enough to apply this passion towards practical mitigation of the issues you describe, rather than peddle a weary and disengaging ideaology that offers no practical solutions.


I am not offering any practical solutions? What about responsible human breeding? What about axing child benefits - having a child is a lifestyle choice and not a necessity! What about reducing the number of vehicles on the road and in the air? What about encouraging people to holiday at home instead of hopping onto a plane to go abroad? What about heavy fines for people that don't use their recycling bins? What about stopping the production of all new homes and encourage people to stay at home with their parents or convert existing buildings (such as old offices and warehouses) into housing? What about people only eating meat once a week? The global population of cattle currently stands at more that one billion and they produce more methane than the transportation industries combined. There wouldn't be the need for such a high number if there weren't as many people or if people didn't eat as much meat. The production of meat is also responsible for mass deforestation. I could go on and on with my list as there are plenty of practical solutions to reducing the impact that human activity is having on the environment.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LGG- start another thread- this is not the place for this. We've said our piece- leave it or start up somewhere else.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> Accord to the articles she was not alone, she was poorly and in bed with her mum when the dog attacked. Again according to articles neighbours are quoted as saying the dog was walked


But there's a difference between a walk around the block of flats to let it go to the toilet which they would have to do a couple times a day as they live in a flat and a real walk. I expect this dog only received the first type which is why the Neighbours would say the dog was walked.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Apollo2012 said:


> But there's a difference between a walk around the block of flats to let it go to the toilet which they would have to do a couple times a day as they live in a flat and a real walk. I expect this dog only received the first type which is why the Neighbours would say the dog was walked.


Thats just supposition


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Not walking a dog should not make it savage a child like that.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Prowl said:


> Not heard that from anywhere.


Have a look at the photo of the dog. I wouldn't say she looked covered in scars, but there is definitely quite a bit of redness at the base of the dog's neck. Perhaps she was like that before Lexi and her mother took her into their home or it might have been caused by her being chained up or an ill fitting harness. The dog is seen in a harness further down the aforementioned article.

I see the police are now investigating the dog's history. I just hope they will publish ALL the facts they uncover, so they can be used to prevent another tragedy like this.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> Not walking a dog should not make it savage a child like that.


There are sadly a lot of dogs who have developed behavioural problems due to not being given sufficient exercise. Think of having all that pent up energy and not being able to release it in a constructive way. That energy has got to go somewhere and that is why so many dogs become destructive and turn aggressive.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Anybody read the story today about the Bullmastiff that savaged a small dog and bit an elderly woman in the face to get to it??Apparently a behaviourist said it was a lovely, playful dog and a judge agreed....
they apparently rehomed it to a family with 6 kids!!

What hope is there if even a behaviourist and judge cant use their common sense regarding safety with dogs? Obviously that dog wasnt aggressive towards humans, but that didnt stop it acting aggressively to get to the object of its attack. Why on earth rehome a dog like that (which could cause serious accidental injury) to a home with kids??


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

All I can say is I hope after the inquest,and investigation that those responsible for this tragedy are held responsible to the fullest extent of the law,that includes previous owners, the kennels owners, it's staff the council, and god forbid because she's paid the highest price already the child's Mother if it's found she did ignore warnings about the dogs trustworthiness with children! People need to start thinking of the repercussions of being irresponsible with dogs,if someone's life isn't enough of a wake up call then maybe harsh prison sentences will be??

We honestly need to get our fingers out, and changes BSL, and educate people about dogs and responsible ownership!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> Anybody read the story today about the Bullmastiff that savaged a small dog and bit an elderly woman in the face to get to it??Apparently a behaviourist said it was a lovely, playful dog and a judge agreed....
> they apparently rehomed it to a family with 6 kids!!
> 
> What hope is there if even a behaviourist and judge cant use their common sense regarding safety with dogs? Obviously that dog wasnt aggressive towards humans, but that didnt stop it acting aggressively to get to the object of its attack. Why on earth rehome a dog like that (which could cause serious accidental injury) to a home with kids??


Yep I read it- given the case has been judged, with experts- I don't see the problem.

The incident was taken on merit and the dog is a threat to other wee dogs- much like many dogs- and is condition of case it is muzzled and put on lead when out.

The kids could be late teens.

The woman is stirring up extra drama- the case has been resolved.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> Maybe it would just be kinder, to place strays straight to sleep after their 7 days are up if their owners don't come forward, I'd hate to see this happen, harsh reality is no one knows really and honestly if these dogs are safe, no one can really ever vouch for them.


So, Brochan should have been killed because he was a stray with an unknown history? 

My cousin said that he has a lovely soul and is the nicest dog she has ever met! He is also very gentle with her six-year-old daughter when he sees her. A friend (who recently suffered a horrible bereavement) said that he showed more compassion to her than some of her own family members. There are countless other dogs with unknown histories who have been and are wonderful members of the family.

And using your exact same logic, would it be 'kinder' to kill all the children in orphanages as there is no way of telling what their histories are?


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Meezey said:


> All I can say is I hope after the inquest,and investigation that those responsible for this tragedy are held responsible to the fullest extent of the law,that includes previous owners, the kennels owners, it's staff the council, and god forbid because she's paid the highest price already the child's Mother if it's found she did ignore warnings about the dogs trustworthiness with children! People need to start thinking of the repercussions of being irresponsible with dogs,if someone's life isn't enough of a wake up call then maybe harsh prison sentences will be??
> 
> We honestly need to get our fingers out, and changes BSL, and educate people about dogs and responsible ownership!


Not just people but papers! They can't be allowed to publish such a story without all the facts which they clearly didn't have because the story has changed as its developed. The trueth needs to be told instead of a story that people have heard and just want to hear again and again.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Prowl said:


> Not just people but papers! They can't be allowed to publish such a story without all the facts which they clearly didn't have because the story has changed as its developed. The trueth needs to be told instead of a story that people have heard and just want to hear again and again.


Agreed.

Sadly the media are totally irresponsible on the vast majority of their posting.

About people too.

Scaremongering and sensationalising.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Prowl said:


> Not just people but papers! They can't be allowed to publish such a story without all the facts which they clearly didn't have because the story has changed as its developed. The trueth needs to be told instead of a story that people have heard and just want to hear again and again.


Yep, stories of vicious evil dogs that turn for no reason will sell papers. 

Sadly, stories of dogs that have bitten or attacked because of human error and an unfortunate sequence of events won't have the papers flying off the shelves.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> So, Brochan should have been killed because he was a stray with an unknown history?
> 
> My cousin said that he has a lovely soul and is the nicest dog she has ever met! He is also very gentle with her six-year-old daughter when he sees her. A friend (who recently suffered a horrible bereavement) said that he showed more compassion to her than some of her own family members. There are countless other dogs with unknown histories who have been and are wonderful members of the family.
> 
> And using your exact same logic, would it be 'kinder' to kill all the children in orphanages as there is no way of telling what their histories are?


No it wouldn't because children are human beings and not dogs.

Your replies really give me cause for concern.......


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Julesky said:


> Yep I read it- given the case has been judged, with experts- I don't see the problem.


there really is no hope then....
The behaviourist is quoted as saying the dog is not dangerous to human beings (apparently facial wounding doesnt count here coz the dog wasnt aiming for the lady and her face must of just gotten in the way!).
Given the new owner is 31 I am assuming that the kids in question are little (and little kids never accidently leave doors open, tease dogs, run about, etc?). It just seems common sense to me that you shouldnt rehome a large dog with an uncontrolled aggression issue (towards pets/people/cars/anything) with young children.
I mean how is that not obvious to people??:mad2:


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Yep, stories of vicious evil dogs that turn for no reason will sell papers.
> 
> *Sadly, stories of dogs that have bitten or attacked because of human error and an unfortunate sequence of events won't have the papers flying off the shelves. *


As long as the public can condem the right sources no one cares why the incident happened even though it could save future lives instead of scairing parents out of their wits.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Prowl said:


> Not just people but papers! They can't be allowed to publish such a story without all the facts which they clearly didn't have because the story has changed as its developed. The trueth needs to be told instead of a story that people have heard and just want to hear again and again.


The facts have been reported though.

Woman with 4 year old gets dog from kennels.
Woman lives in small flat no access to garden area.

Dog is a large breed dog.

Dog attacks and kills 4 year old child.

Facts are all there, papers just flowered it up a bit.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> No it wouldn't because children are human beings and not dogs.
> 
> Your replies really give me cause for concern.......


And humans and dogs both belong to the animal kingdom. None of you belittling me for my views have provided a single shred of evidence to prove (once and for all) that humans are in actual fact the most important species.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> So, Brochan should have been killed because he was a stray with an unknown history?
> 
> My cousin said that he has a lovely soul and is the nicest dog she has ever met! He is also very gentle with her six-year-old daughter when he sees her. A friend (who recently suffered a horrible bereavement) said that he showed more compassion to her than some of her own family members. There are countless other dogs with unknown histories who have been and are wonderful members of the family.
> 
> And using your exact same logic, would it be 'kinder' to kill all the children in orphanages as there is no way of telling what their histories are?


Will you stop equating humans to dogs, whether you like it or not not not all species are equal just not going to happened and I personally find it offensive that you are being so dismissive, if you want to start some Animal Farm like revolution take it to another thread! This is not the place, a child died, an awful death. Stop equating dogs to humans, because rightly or wrongly there is no comparison!


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> The facts have been reported though.
> 
> Woman with 4 year old gets dog from kennels.
> Woman lives in small flat no access to garden area.
> ...


Now we know yes but if you followed the story from the begining the facts have changed as its developed.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> there really is no hope then....
> The behaviourist is quoted as saying the dog is not dangerous to human beings (apparently facial wounding doesnt count here coz the dog wasnt aiming for the lady and her face must of just gotten in the way!).
> Given the new owner is 31 I am assuming that the kids in question are little (and little kids never accidently leave doors open, tease dogs, run about, etc?). It just seems common sense to me that you shouldnt rehome a large dog with an uncontrolled aggression issue (towards pets/people/cars/anything) with young children.
> I mean how is that not obvious to people??:mad2:


I didn't catch the part where the new owner was 31. Missed that.

The lady in question was holding the dog above her head, the big dog went for it and she got a cuts on her nose-

her dog got badly bitten on the stomach

Why I don't have a problem is because the focus on this case is at the highest level so surely everyone involved with this dog are under no illusions as to how to look after it responsibly.

The lady was quoted as saying, 'it now has a taste for blood'

I do not buy into that.

There's a difference between a dog launching an attack on a human and a human accidentally getting bitten by any size or breed of dog.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> And humans and dogs both belong to the animal kingdom. None of you belittling me for my views have provided a single shred of evidence to prove (once and for all) that humans are in actual fact the most important species.


Oh dear god.

We are all here because we love our dogs. Do us all a favour and start a debate on hierarchy in the natural world on general chat.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> And humans and dogs both belong to the animal kingdom. None of you belittling me for my views have provided a single shred of evidence to prove (once and for all) that humans are in actual fact the most important species.


yes, we are part of the animal kingdom and as such we have the same biological imperative to protect our own species as every other. Most creatures that raise their young will attempt to protect them from predators, watching any David Attenborough documentary will tell you that!
Even Id be willing to hurt/kill/maim an animal to protect a child and I dont even like kids and feel the human race deserves to die out. I am not however a complete sociopath who could watch a child suffer. (and I actually feel silly having to explain that!!).


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

RockRomantic said:


> 'I really cant understand why anyone would want that breed of dog with a child anyway, it wouldn't be one I would pick to live with a young child, a small fluffy one with gentle nature would be my choice'
> 
> Well as long as your careful and responsible why not? Lots and lots AND LOTS of people have large breeds and children without issues. Think of the amount of dog owners there is compared to how many situations like this happen. it's a small amount in comparison. You cannot tell me only small fluffy dogs are all lovely and sweetness. Large dogs can have gentle natures to, ANY dog can. :frown2: One thing that annoys me out of media publishing articles like this is the fact breeds get slated. 'Why have such a big dog' why this why that.
> My doberman (ex secuity) is by the far the gentlest dog i've met, i can be bias but how he is with children never fails my warm my heart, he goes from this clumsy dog that accidentally knocks stuff over as he walks to this gentle dog. he adores my stepsons and they adore him. We all do things different, small dogs arent for me, my dogs arent for some people. no need to slate them though. :frown2:
> ...


Why does the media keep saying it was a Bulldog? ????? I can't stop thinking about what the scene in that room was like the panic the sleeping child being attacked the Dog being stabbed it would of been well words can't describe a Horrible horrendous event it also states in the article that there was a sign on the dogs kennel stating not suitable with children whatever ever went wrong here is tragic maybe the rescue weren't aware that there was a child but I also thought they did thorough checks and the Dog would not be suitable for a flat a tragic mistake with the rehoming of this dog was clearly made its soul destroying and heartbreaking in every way


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Julesky said:


> There's a difference between a dog launching an attack on a human and a human accidentally getting bitten by any size or breed of dog.


Not to the person who is injured.....

I agree it was a typical sensationalist article and the woman was being overly dramatic. However Ive been injured by a dog attempting to get at one of mine and I can assure you it really didnt hurt any less or become any less scary because the dog was trying to hurt one of mine rather then me. 
All Im saying is that a dog that is large enough to really hurt someone by accident and has a control issue shouldnt be rehomed with vulnerable people (ie-children, elderly, ill), and def one that has an unknown history shouldnt be rehomed to vulnerable people.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

snoopydo said:


> Why does the media keep saying it was a Bulldog? ????? I can't stop thinking about what the scene in that room was like the panic the sleeping child being attacked the Dog being stabbed it would of been well words can't describe a Horrible horrendous event it also states in the article that there was a sign on the dogs kennel stating not suitable with children whatever ever went wrong here is tragic maybe the rescue weren't aware that there was a child but I also thought they did thorough checks and the Dog would not be suitable for a flat a tragic mistake with the rehoming of this dog was clearly made its soul destroying and heartbreaking in every way


Police confirm breed of dog involved in the incident in Mountsorrel | Leicestershire Police

From the police

Bulldog. Attacked her in the lounge NOT the bed


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Julesky said:


> Yep I read it- given the case has been judged, with experts- I don't see the problem.
> 
> The incident was taken on merit and the dog is a threat to other wee dogs- much like many dogs- and is condition of case it is muzzled and put on lead when out.
> 
> ...


I'd stir up more than a drama if a Dog savaged my little dog


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

snoopydo said:


> Why does the media keep saying it was a Bulldog? ????? I can't stop thinking about what the scene in that room was like the panic the sleeping child being attacked the Dog being stabbed it would of been well words can't describe a Horrible horrendous event it also states in the article that there was a sign on the dogs kennel stating not suitable with children whatever ever went wrong here is tragic maybe the rescue weren't aware that there was a child but I also thought they did thorough checks and the Dog would not be suitable for a flat a tragic mistake with the rehoming of this dog was clearly made its soul destroying and heartbreaking in every way


Because the police have confirmed it's a bulldog?

It wasn't a rescue?


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Because the police have confirmed it's a bulldog?


I think bulldogs are the latest fad breed for people who like the look of powerful breeds. There seem to be so many different types being bred now that the dog could of been a cross of differnt variaties or even just a really bad example of one type.


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> So, Brochan should have been killed because he was a stray with an unknown history?
> 
> My cousin said that he has a lovely soul and is the nicest dog she has ever met! He is also very gentle with her six-year-old daughter when he sees her. A friend (who recently suffered a horrible bereavement) said that he showed more compassion to her than some of her own family members. There are countless other dogs with unknown histories who have been and are wonderful members of the family.
> 
> And using your exact same logic, would it be 'kinder' to kill all the children in orphanages as there is no way of telling what their histories are?


Using sensible logic a dog is a dog and a human is a human 

For goodness sake you cannot equate a humans life an innocent childs life to that of a dog!


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> Not to the person who is injured.....
> 
> I agree it was a typical sensationalist article and the woman was being overly dramatic. However Ive been injured by a dog attempting to get at one of mine and I can assure you it really didnt hurt any less or become any less scary because the dog was trying to hurt one of mine rather then me.
> All Im saying is that a dog that is large enough to really hurt someone by accident and has a control issue shouldnt be rehomed with vulnerable people (ie-children, elderly, ill), and def one that has an unknown history shouldnt be rehomed to vulnerable people.


Absolutely. I do agree and I also believe the main rescue centres tend not to rehome any big or excitable breeds with young families unless they have a full and prisitine history.

Clearly in this case the family have made a decision that has been supported by whomever rehomed it-plus the dog had a full history including this incident which has lasting repurcussions for how the dog is managed- for all we know they already have a big dog (article says it gets on well with big dogs) or have x amount of years of proven experience and passed some common sense test.

Let's be honest the vast majority of novice dog owners with small kids would be very careful about the size and temperament of dog they get.

I think this article highlights the sensibilities involved in owning breeds- I am quite sure many people get bitten as collateral in dog on dog scraps- often by their own dog, I genuinely do not feel this means they are now a hazard to children any less than they were previously- i.e don't bug the dog etc.


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Apollo2012 said:


> But there's a difference between a walk around the block of flats to let it go to the toilet which they would have to do a couple times a day as they live in a flat and a real walk. I expect this dog only received the first type which is why the Neighbours would say the dog was walked.


Another assumption!


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Dog looks like a nice stamp of a dog


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

snoopydo said:


> I'd stir up more than a drama if a Dog savaged my little dog


Of course you would. If a dog savaged my medium sized dog i'd be raging- already was when another breed took a chunk out of his face.

But you wouldn't equate a dog attacking another dog as 'a taste for blood' i.e. an implied threat to humans- sensationalistly , a few days after this tragedy, when the case is closed.

This is trying to equate dog attacks to human attacks, they are clearly both issues needing addressed, but are very different things


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Will you stop equating humans to dogs, whether you like it or not not not all species are equal just not going to happened and I personally find it offensive that you are being so dismissive, if you want to start some Animal Farm like revolution take it to another thread! This is not the place, a child died, an awful death. Stop equating dogs to humans, because rightly or wrongly there is no comparison!


And would you please *PROVE* it!!

It used to be that people thought the Earth was flat, that people with epilepsy and other fit inducing conditions were possessed by demons, that people who were disabled had sinned and that people who were a bit different were thought to be witches. And look at black and gay people. There are still people in this day and age who don't think they deserve the same rights as white and straight people. Bigotry and indeed backward thinking is still rife in the 21st century! I have no time for people that don't treat other humans and other animals with equal respect!

I have actually said quite a few times now that this has been a tragedy and of course I feel bad for what happened to Lexi. I am *NOT* a monster and I hate all the insinuations that I am one!!


----------



## Linden_Tree (Jan 6, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> I have actually said quite a few times now that this has been a tragedy and of course I feel bad for what happened to Lexi. I am *NOT* a monster and I hate all the insinuations that I am one!!


Maybe not, but you are quite obviously ignorant, ill educated and a fanatic.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LGG for the love of god- why are you not taking this dramatic debate elsewhere?


Who has called you a monster?

Bringing in talk of the Earth being flat - what planet are you living on- take your hysterics elsewhere as you have no respect for the debate that is going on at the moment.

I understand your point- that who is to say an animal's live is more or less important than a humans.

But you are not putting it across very well- so start another thread.

This one is focussing on this case not trying to decide who is the more important victim here- it's distasteful.

There's a grieving mother somewhere.


----------



## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> yes, we are part of the animal kingdom and as such we have the same biological imperative to protect our own species as every other. Most creatures that raise their young will attempt to protect them from predators, watching any David Attenborough documentary will tell you that!
> Even Id be willing to hurt/kill/maim an animal to protect a child and I dont even like kids and feel the human race deserves to die out. I am not however a complete sociopath who could watch a child suffer. (and I actually feel silly having to explain that!!).


Now I'm a sociopath who would stand back and watch a child suffering?? Is that what you are implying??


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Julesky said:


> Who has called you a monster?
> .


well, I called her a sociopath....but TBF its only coz she was talking like one!


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> There are sadly a lot of dogs who have developed behavioural problems due to not being given sufficient exercise. Think of having all that pent up energy and not being able to release it in a constructive way. That energy has got to go somewhere and that is why so many dogs become destructive and turn aggressive.


I understand that, however the dog was walked anyway and regardless, this is still too extreme a reaction anyway.

There was a summer when my Grandfather had cancer and not only was the dog not walked very often, he wasn't really noticed, I know it may sound bad, but he was left for a great length of the day because everyone was at the hospital/hospice and none of us even remember what happened with him at that time, except sometimes he was fed twice as someone was passing through and fed him when he had already been fed. He never so much as turned his lip up, let alone savaged me in my sleep.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> well, I called her a sociopath....but TBF its only coz she was talking like one!


Technically you said of yourself ,you're not a sociopath

Edited for a misquote! D'oh


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> And would you please *PROVE* it!!
> 
> It used to be that people thought the Earth was flat, that people with epilepsy and other fit inducing conditions were possessed by demons, that people who were disabled had sinned and that people who were a bit different were thought to be witches. And look at black and gay people. There are still people in this day and age who don't think they deserve the same rights as white and straight people. Bigotry and indeed backward thinking is still rife in the 21st century! I have no time for people that don't treat other humans and other animals with equal respect!
> 
> I have actually said quite a few times now that this has been a tragedy and of course I feel bad for what happened to Lexi. I am *NOT* a monster and I hate all the insinuations that I am one!!


All the proof you need is that every species, be it rabbits, dogs, horses, cats, people, whatever, prioritizes their own, especially if those are companions or offspring above others. 
That is not to say one species is 'better' but that people will always value people above other animals, dogs will always value dogs etc.

For example, my mum has two cats, a mother and son that don't get along at all. Despite this, when a neighbours cat was picking on the boy his mum jumped right in there and fought it off. 
Would she have done this for an unknown cat? Maybe, but it's unlikely.
Another animal of a different species? No way.

I don't think those cats think they are 'superior' to every other animal, but they prioritize their own.

There is nothing unethical about that.

As people, we protect other people and especially our young. 
Virtually no person would keep a dog that harmed a family member and I think that's understandable.

I try very hard to treat animals and people equally, I am vegetarian, I try to buy only fairtrade but I would NEVER stand for ANYONE harming my child, if a dog bit my child that dog would be gone.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> And would you please *PROVE* it!!
> 
> It used to be that people thought the Earth was flat, that people with epilepsy and other fit inducing conditions were possessed by demons, that people who were disabled had sinned and that people who were a bit different were thought to be witches. And look at black and gay people. There are still people in this day and age who don't think they deserve the same rights as white and straight people. Bigotry and indeed backward thinking is still rife in the 21st century! I have no time for people that don't treat other humans and other animals with equal respect!
> 
> I have actually said quite a few times now that this has been a tragedy and of course I feel bad for what happened to Lexi. I am *NOT* a monster and I hate all the insinuations that I am one!!


There is a time and a place, this is not, you have been recommend and advised on a few posts to start another thread on it, but you insist on banging on about it on this thread, which will only serve to get peoples backs up, so you chose to stay here and feel that people are making you out to be a monster!


----------



## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> The facts have been reported though.
> 
> Woman with 4 year old gets dog from kennels.
> Woman lives in small flat no access to garden area.
> ...


Urgh. This isn't a soap opera, it's the most devastating thing that's ever happened to some very real people and shouldn't be 'flowered up' in order to titillate people's taste for drama and outrage.

I'm a great believer in freedom of the press but they push it. They push it because, as demonstrated on this thread, people love to speculate, judge and analyse and they don't particularly care whether they do that with the facts or a 'flowered up' fantasy.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Have a look at the photo of the dog. I wouldn't say she looked covered in scars, but there is definitely quite a bit of redness at the base of the dog's neck. Perhaps she was like that before Lexi and her mother took her into their home or it might have been caused by her being chained up or an ill fitting harness. The dog is seen in a harness further down the aforementioned article.
> 
> I see the police are now investigating the dog's history. I just hope they will publish ALL the facts they uncover, so they can be used to prevent another tragedy like this.


Or it could simply be colour run from the pink harness


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

lennythecloud said:


> I'm a great believer in freedom of the press but they push it. They push it because, as demonstrated on this thread, people love to speculate, judge and analyse and they don't particularly care whether they do that with the facts or a 'flowered up' fantasy.


The press didn't just 'push' it here!
They completely manufactured the dog that was involved! OR they most certainly implied that was the 'type' of dog
And that is bang out of order!


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Love the way the bulldog breeders interviewed in Daily mail article say a bulldog would never do that it was crossed with a staffie and that could have caused it to have unsound temprament.... staffie bashing had to get in there somewhere.

Other such odd comments on the too below, about how crossing with a staffie can affect the dog and they will either be OK or bite. Where do people get such cr+p from?


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Julesky said:


> Of course you would. If a dog savaged my medium sized dog i'd be raging- already was when another breed took a chunk out of his face.
> 
> But you wouldn't equate a dog attacking another dog as 'a taste for blood' i.e. an implied threat to humans- sensationalistly , a few days after this tragedy, when the case is closed.
> 
> This is trying to equate dog attacks to human attacks, they are clearly both issues needing addressed, but are very different things


Oh yes sorry I see what you mean. yes some dogs are "naturally other dog aggressive" but brilliant with humans .


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

lennythecloud said:


> Urgh. This isn't a soap opera, it's the most devastating thing that's ever happened to some very real people and shouldn't be 'flowered up' in order to titillate people's taste for drama and outrage.
> 
> I'm a great believer in freedom of the press but they push it. They push it because, as demonstrated on this thread,* people love to speculate, judge and analyse *and they don't particularly care whether they do that with the facts or a 'flowered up' fantasy.


Yep, there's a difference between me discussing with my neighbours based on various reports from media that can reach out to millions of people with misinformation- why are these people getting paid to gossip and slander.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Linden_Tree said:


> Maybe not, but you are quite obviously ignorant, ill educated and a fanatic.


How is that? Because I bring up things (including scientific facts) that some of you are uncomfortable with? That I do not place my own species above any other? That I don't get anymore enraged when a child is abused than when a non-human is the subject of abuse? That I can quite clearly see that humans are far more dangerous and destructive than any other animal? Do those things really make me an ignorant ill educated fanatic? Really?? Sounds to me that you are viewing your own species through rose tinted glasses!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Yep, there's a difference between me discussing with my neighbours based on various reports from media that can reach out to millions of people with misinformation- why are these people getting paid to gossip and slander.


Exactly!


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

snoopydo said:


> Oh yes sorry I see what you mean. yes some dogs are "naturally other dog aggressive" but brilliant with humans .


No need! It's often hard to disentangle the written word and i didn't explain it well 

e.g. ex-racing greyhounds would be struggling for homes!


----------



## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> Or it could simply be colour run from the pink harness


Ahhhh so we have a pic of the actual dog now in yesterday's papers it was shown as a Ddb ....it looks like an American Bulldog erm where did the French bulldog come from


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> How is that? Because I bring up things (including scientific facts) that some of you are uncomfortable with? That I do not place my own species above any other? That I don't get anymore enraged when a child is abused than when a non-human is the subject of abuse? That I can quite clearly see that humans are far more dangerous and destructive than any other animal? Do those things really make me an ignorant ill educated fanatic? Really?? Sounds to me that you are viewing your own species through rose tinted glasses!


Seriously?? Your doing very very well in proving your own point about how dangerous and destructive humans are? How many times this is NOT the place!!

Your turning out to be the poster child for your own propaganda here


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> How is that? Because I bring up things (including scientific facts) that some of you are uncomfortable with? That I do not place my own species above any other? That I don't get anymore enraged when a child is abused than when a non-human is the subject of abuse? That I can quite clearly see that humans are far more dangerous and destructive than any other animal? Do those things really make me an ignorant ill educated fanatic? Really?? Sounds to me that you are viewing your own species through rose tinted glasses!


Bacteria, viruses are incredibly destructive and dangerous to all living things, plants and animals.
And there are billions more of them than us


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> How is that? Because I bring up things (including scientific facts) that some of you are uncomfortable with? That I do not place my own species above any other? That I don't get anymore enraged when a child is abused than when a non-human is the subject of abuse? That I can quite clearly see that humans are far more dangerous and destructive than any other animal? Do those things really make me an ignorant ill educated fanatic? Really?? Sounds to me that you are viewing your own species through rose tinted glasses!


Jeez because your constant banging on is totally irrelevant to the thread


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> How is that? Because I bring up things (including scientific facts) that some of you are uncomfortable with? That I do not place my own species above any other? That I don't get anymore enraged when a child is abused than when a non-human is the subject of abuse? That I can quite clearly see that humans are far more dangerous and destructive than any other animal? Do those things really make me an ignorant ill educated fanatic? Really?? Sounds to me that you are viewing your own species through rose tinted glasses!


Well man has to be the most dangerous and destructive thing on earth so you aren't wrong there


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> Jeez because your constant banging on is totally irrelevant to the thread


TBH after 43 pages Im surprised there is any relevance left at all!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

DT said:


> Well man has to be the most dangerous and destructive thing on earth so you aren't wrong there


DT you silly bean- don't forget the wee guys- see my above post!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> Ahhhh so we have a pic of the actual dog now in yesterday's papers it was shown as a Ddb ....it looks like an American Bulldog erm where did the French bulldog come from


Don't think a French Bulldog has been mentioned
Initially they showed a picture of a French mastiff or a DDB
Correct me if I'm wrong on that anyone


----------



## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> There are sadly a lot of dogs who have developed behavioural problems due to not being given sufficient exercise. Think of having all that pent up energy and not being able to release it in a constructive way. That energy has got to go somewhere and that is why so many dogs become destructive and turn aggressive.


I live in the country. During the foot and mouth epidemic it wasn't possible to walk my dogs. One of whom was a giant breed. You know what? After a couple of days they got used to the idea. And I'm still here to tell the tale!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> TBH after 43 pages Im surprised there is any relevance left at all!


You saying we had some to start with

boy! I must be slipping


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

DT said:


> Don't think a French Bulldog has been mentioned
> Initially they showed a picture of a French mastiff or a DDB
> Correct me if I'm wrong on that anyone


You know i love a good correct 

Na you're not wrong- breed was suggested as Ayle something or other bulldog


----------



## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> So, Brochan should have been killed because he was a stray with an unknown history?
> 
> My cousin said that he has a lovely soul and is the nicest dog she has ever met! He is also very gentle with her six-year-old daughter when he sees her. A friend (who recently suffered a horrible bereavement) said that he showed more compassion to her than some of her own family members. There are countless other dogs with unknown histories who have been and are wonderful members of the family.
> 
> And using your exact same logic, would it be 'kinder' to kill all the children in orphanages as there is no way of telling what their histories are?


You obviously have a bee in your bonnet where children are concerned.

Mistakes like this CANNOT keep happening, however much you find those comments offensive. If pounds can't tell the truth & stick to their guns where descriptions of dogs in their care are given, then yes, I am ALL for dogs with unknown history being put to sleep after their 7 days are up - the dogs at that place were a business, nothing more - what does that tell you ? :mad2:

I and all other responsible dog owners will carry on suffering, be subject to new rules, new laws being enforced just because someone somewhere couldn't be responsible enough to save face and say ''Sorry, the dog isn't suitable''..rather than ''Yes, okay but don't let it jump up''...:mad2::mad2:

A gorgeous little girl has lost her life due to human error and mistruths, due to a dog that clearly weren't safe to be anywhere, never mind a home with a defenseless child! Your comments are disgraceful


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Julesky said:


> Bacteria, viruses are incredibly destructive and dangerous to all living things, plants and animals.
> And there are billions more of them than us


Bacteria, viruses, etc aren't animals with feelings and emotions.


----------



## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Bacteria, viruses, etc aren't animals with feelings and emotions.


Did you ask the bacteria that


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> Bacteria, viruses, etc aren't animals with feelings and emotions.


You're either a troll or a complete cotton headed nini-muggins (to quote elf)

Bye,
Let me know if you get your standard grades, particularly biology.


----------



## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Prowl said:


> Did you ask the bacteria that


Also i believe the response was to what was highly dangerous AND destructive.

pop me in a room with Jeremy Clarkson any day over a rabid mongoose!


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

SirHiss said:


> Mistakes like this CANNOT keep happening,:


Agreed! Ive nothing againest giant breeds or people with children owning them. But it should be something that is gone into responsibly and with plenty of research. Either buy your puppy from a responsible breeder and train it (and your child!) properly or rescue a giant breed when you dont have any vulnerable people in your home to worry about.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> Agreed! Ive nothing againest giant breeds or people with children owning them. But it should be something that is gone into responsibly and with plenty of research. Either buy your puppy from a responsible breeder and train it (and your child!) properly or rescue a giant breed when you dont have any vulnerable people in your home to worry about.


If everyone did the first bit there would be very little dogs in rescue


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> You obviously have a bee in your bonnet where children are concerned.
> 
> Mistakes like this CANNOT keep happening, however much you find those comments offensive. If pounds can't tell the truth & stick to their guns where descriptions of dogs in their care are given, then yes, I am ALL for dogs with unknown history being put to sleep after their 7 days are up - the dogs at that place were a business, nothing more - what does that tell you ? :mad2:
> 
> ...


And comments like yours that advocate the murder (don't sugar coat it with expressions like 'put to sleep') of innocent animals are vulgar and remind me of why I have such issues with the human race. And don't come back with comments like you can only murder another human being.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> And would you please *PROVE* it!!
> 
> It used to be that people thought the Earth was flat, that people with epilepsy and other fit inducing conditions were possessed by demons, that people who were disabled had sinned and that people who were a bit different were thought to be witches. And look at black and gay people. There are still people in this day and age who don't think they deserve the same rights as white and straight people. Bigotry and indeed backward thinking is still rife in the 21st century! I have no time for people that don't treat other humans and other animals with equal respect!
> 
> I have actually said quite a few times now that this has been a tragedy and of course I feel bad for what happened to Lexi. I am *NOT* a monster and I hate all the insinuations that I am one!!


Seriously LGG, why not start your own thread about whatever point it is you're trying to get across? It could make for an interesting debate but it really isn't appropriate on here :frown2:


----------



## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

Julesky said:


> You're either a troll or a complete cotton headed mini-muggins (to quote elf)
> 
> Bye,
> Let me know if you get your standard grades, particularly biology.


There's no need to be so harsh 

While I completely totally utterly disagree with her view that these dogs who bite, sometimes even kill children shouldn't necessarily be put down or rehomed, not everything she said was that far fetched...

A little girl has died in the most awful circumstances imaginable and feelings are running high.
Her comments were insensitive given what has happened BUT it is kind of undeniable really that people have caused vast and incredible damage to the planet, committed heinous acts of cruelty against other people and animals and SOME people do maintain a belief that it's okay to be cruel because we are higher in the food chain.

I share the same views EXCEPT that dogs who attack children shouldn't be given up or pts, I vehemently disagree with that one.

But everything else she said I agree with and I can assure you that I am not a troll, nor a complete cotton headed mini muggins.

I will also have you know that I for one I am very intelligent, I have excellent gcses, a levels plus a biomedical science degree.
Was it not for animal testing (required by law) and carried out at the universities I would have loved to be a surgeon.

There is nothing wrong with being compassionate and trying to treat others equally.

I would be so upset if I was lurchergreyhoundgirl to have got such a comment.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> And comments like yours that advocate the murder (don't sugar coat it with expressions like 'put to sleep') of innocent animals are vulgar and remind me of why I have such issues with the human race. And don't come back with comments like you can only murder another human being.


You are obviously sugar coating what ever point you are trying to make so completely that no one has any idea what it is

The only thing I have gleaned is you do not like people and in particular children and are more concerned that the dog was killed rather than the death of the innocent little girl


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Serioiusly!! 
Maybe I missed summat! I dunno, feel free to fill me in!
But can't see why everyone is taking a pop a lurchergreyhoundgirl!

She IS NOT, not that I have seen anyway, saying that she would stand by and watch a child be harmed over a dog all she is saying , in my opinion is, that mankind have turned* many *these dogs into the killing machines they have become!

Someone says it has to stop - YES it does! so does knife crime, gun crime and a whole host of other issues,

Now did I missed something??


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

Sparkle22 said:


> There's no need to be so harsh
> 
> While I completely totally utterly disagree with her view that these dogs who bite, sometimes even kill children shouldn't necessarily be put down or rehomed, not everything she said was that far fetched...
> 
> ...


Fair enough Sparkle!

Harsh- maybe, but no less harsh than she has repeatedly posted to several people.

Plus the cotton headed comment is mildly chiding- I could have been way harsher.

This user has had no respect for the thread or the posters.

ETA: People with strong opinions start new threads, trolls keep throwing threads off


----------



## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> And comments like yours that advocate the murder (don't sugar coat it with expressions like 'put to sleep') of innocent animals are vulgar and remind me of why I have such issues with the human race. And don't come back with comments like you can only murder another human being.


There are worse things that can happen to an animal than a needle. If you have such issues with the human race, why are you here on this thread ? Which is paying tribute to a little girl who sadly lost her life in the most terrible violent circumstaces, have you not one shred of decency ? :frown2:


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## Barefootgirl (Sep 6, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> And don't come back with comments like you can only murder another human being.


You may think that. It's not actually true. You can only murder another human being. You can kill anything. Murder is a legal construct. The fact that we even have a concept of murder is part of the difference between humans and other animals.

The dog did not murder poor little Lexi. It killed her.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> And comments like yours that advocate the murder (don't sugar coat it with expressions like 'put to sleep') of innocent animals are vulgar and remind me of why I have such issues with the human race. And don't come back with comments like you can only murder another human being.


Omg now I am laughing!! LGG you are bleating on about how dangerous and destructive humans are yet you are being insensitive to the extreme here,you lack compassion and the basic emotions and feelings to know when something is inappropriate. You are your own worst enemy and sadly you can't even see it for all your empathy for animals, you would rather blether on about dogs being murdered, seriously YOU are a lot of what is wrong with human beings, people like you will bring around the down fall of dogs with your pie in the sky thoughts!!


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

DT said:


> Serioiusly!!
> Maybe I missed summat! I dunno, feel free to fill me in!
> But can't see why everyone is taking a pop a lurchergreyhoundgirl!
> 
> ...


Aye- she's suggested posters such as myself find ourselves superior to animals, are arrogant humans who see ourselves separate from animals.

She has taken the thread well off course on issues of equality and environmental damage

and generally thrown around similar slanderous accusations and implications.

Frankly patience is wearing thin.

Despite repeatedly being asked to tone it down/ get it back on track AND whilst also acknowledging her stance on the value of life- the debate has shifted to being worthy of another thread.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Julesky said:


> Aye- she's suggested posters such as myself find ourselves superior to animals, are arrogant humans who see ourselves separate from animals.
> 
> She has taken the thread well off course on issues of equality and environmental damage
> 
> ...


Thank you Julesky
As you can appreciate with near on 500 posts the few which I have read I have only skimmed, Obviously I missed a massive chunk which has triggered in the responses of many.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

DT said:


> Thank you Julesky
> As you can appreciate with nearing on 300 posts the few which I have read I have only skimmed, Obviously I missed a massive chunk which has triggered in the responses of many.


To be honest I understand where she's coming from. BUT the nature and timing of her argument I personally do not find suitable on this thread.

The personal accusations and insinuation that i'm " ANOTHER ONE' who thinks humans are superior, just because I voice an opinion on why I feel it is understandable and justifiable for a mother to attack someone or something hurting their child is vulgar.

Highly emotive and incendiary phrases like murderer etc. do not belong here, IMO this is trolling- particularly when calmly and repeatedly many have asked it to move or be left


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> You are obviously sugar coating what ever point you are trying to make so completely that no one has any idea what it is
> 
> The only thing I have gleaned is you do not like people and in particular children and are more concerned that the dog was killed rather than the death of the innocent little girl


I have issues with a lot of humans (not them all) because of their arrogance, ignorance and hypocrisy.

I have issues with children because I am sick of all the crimes they commit, their sheer nastiness (I was bullied relentlessly at high school and nothing happened to the bullies - even those that physically abused me) and the fact that they (for the most part) get away with their actions. Society is obsessed with the protection of children and have taken it to the extreme. Even awarding child murderers with brand new identities and making it illegal to mention their new names. Brochan has also had snowballs deliberately thrown at him by some truly vile children! Of course I'm not saying that all children are like that. There are also some lovely children around and I love my niece, nephew and my cousin's daughter to absolute bits!

In this case, I do feel extremely sorry for both Lexi and Mulan. Both were victims of unfortunate circumstances.


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## LurcherGreyoundGirl (Oct 13, 2013)

Sparkle22 said:


> There's no need to be so harsh
> 
> While I completely totally utterly disagree with her view that these dogs who bite, sometimes even kill children shouldn't necessarily be put down or rehomed, not everything she said was that far fetched...
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your support. I have no polite words for posters like Julesky, so I shall refrain from posting them.


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## Julesky (Feb 10, 2012)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> I have issues with a lot of humans (not them all) because of their arrogance, ignorance and hypocrisy.
> 
> I have issues with children because I am sick of all the crimes they commit, their sheer nastiness (I was bullied relentlessly at high school and nothing happened to the bullies - even those that physically abused me) and the fact that they (for the most part) get away with their actions. *Society is obsessed with the protection of children *and have taken it to the extreme. Even awarding child murderers with brand new identities and making it illegal to mention their new names. Brochan has also had snowballs deliberately thrown at him by some truly vile children! Of course I'm not saying that all children are like that. There are also some lovely children around and I love my niece, nephew and my cousin's daughter to absolute bits!
> 
> In this case, I do feel extremely sorry for both Lexi and Mulan. Both were victims of unfortunate circumstances.


:frown2: 
I guess we're all human, we all make mistakes


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> I have issues with a lot of humans (not them all) because of their arrogance, ignorance and hypocrisy.
> 
> I have issues with children because I am sick of all the crimes they commit, their sheer nastiness (I was bullied relentlessly at high school and nothing happened to the bullies - even those that physically abused me) and the fact that they (for the most part) get away with their actions. Society is obsessed with the protection of children and have taken it to the extreme. *Even awarding child murderers with brand new identities and making it illegal to mention their new names*. Brochan has also had snowballs deliberately thrown at him by some truly vile children! Of course I'm not saying that all children are like that. There are also some lovely children around and I love my niece, nephew and my cousin's daughter to absolute bits!
> 
> In this case, I do feel extremely sorry for both Lexi and Mulan. Both were victims of unfortunate circumstances.


Adults who've committed the most despicable crimes are awarded the same privacy, and I don't think they deserve it one bit, but that, & most of your argument, just isn't for this thread.

Not all children are criminals, same as not all Aylestone bulldogs will kill a child.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Unsubscribe.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

What is an Aylestone Bulldog? Is it a variety or is it the kennel name, what?
What makes it different from another bulldog?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Firedog said:


> What is an Aylestone Bulldog? Is it a variety or is it the kennel name, what?
> What makes it different from another bulldog?


Aylestone is what the dog has been supposedly identified as, I don't know what the all the differences between the various types are, I think some of it is to try to make a healthier bulldog- longer legs, more athletic build, less brachy issues.


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

Firedog said:


> What is an Aylestone Bulldog? Is it a variety or is it the kennel name, what?
> What makes it different from another bulldog?


Aylestone? 
Just looked like a poorly bred American bulldog to me, or some sort of American bulldog cross..


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Firedog said:


> What is an Aylestone Bulldog? Is it a variety or is it the kennel name, what?
> What makes it different from another bulldog?


The Aylestone bulldog is recognised through two lines: the Royal and the Standard. They are two branches of the same family. While the size difference of these two strains separates them in height and weight, general appearance should demonstrate continuity.

They are also known as the Old Tyme bulldogs, basically they are a line that is trying to make the breed healthier.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

How about getting back to the original post? 


A little girl has died  RIP little one xx


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> In this case, I do feel extremely sorry for both Lexi and Mulan. Both were victims of unfortunate circumstances.


then just stick with this thought please LGG, or start another thread. 
I may even agree with your views on children and humanity in general but the fact is that this thread is for a sweet little girl who was her family's treasure and is now no longer with us. I think we should stick to condolences and constructive comments and save other debates for new threads...


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

So their are no plans to add bull dogs types or mastiff types to the banned breeds, I wonder given that dog attacks are up 60% since they put that I'll thought out law in place will they make other changes to the dangerous dogs act?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I couldn't comment on this thread before because, as is always the case when a child gets hurt or killed by a dog, much of PF goes into "protect the breed" type discussion 

I think it's so wrong to be discussing the plight of the dog at this time.

I just hope that poor little girl didn't suffer too much before she died. Poor baby. Whether the Parent was stupid or the Rescue were irresponsible, that is not for us to decide imho at this point. All the information should be out there (not just shite from the press) before anyway starts judging.

Rest in peace little Angel Lexi xxxx


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

LurcherGreyoundGirl said:


> So, Brochan should have been killed because he was a stray with an unknown history?
> 
> My cousin said that he has a lovely soul and is the nicest dog she has ever met! He is also very gentle with her six-year-old daughter when he sees her. A friend (who recently suffered a horrible bereavement) said that he showed more compassion to her than some of her own family members. There are countless other dogs with unknown histories who have been and are wonderful members of the family.
> 
> And using your exact same logic, would it be 'kinder' to kill all the children in orphanages as there is no way of telling what their histories are?


You terrify me. Until the day the country is run by dogs (rather than just going to the dogs) I think you will have to accept that humans are in the top position.



snoopydo said:


> Why does the media keep saying it was a Bulldog? ????? (


The police have stated that it was a bulldog. The DDB yesterday was pure conjecture though I did notice that the caption on the photo said it may not be the dog that did it.



chichi said:


> I couldn't comment on this thread before because, as is always the case when a child gets hurt or killed by a dog, much of PF goes into "protect the breed" type discussion
> 
> I think it's so wrong to be discussing the plight of the dog at this time.
> 
> ...


Common sense at last. Much as I love dogs I could not give a damn about the breed of the dog and the only way I am interested in its fate is to be sure it is now dead.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2013)

Meezey said:


> So their are no plans to add bull dogs types or mastiff types to the banned breeds, I wonder given that dog attacks are up 60% since they put that I'll thought out law in place will they make other changes to the dangerous dogs act?


I have no idea

Think a lot of people must be living in frightening times though and fear the future for their precious dogs 

I really don't think it's the DDA they need to be concentrating on, I think they need to concentrate more on how dogs are sold and passed on via all these silly sites that keep cropping up :mad2:


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

SirHiss said:


> I have no idea
> 
> Think a lot of people must be living in frightening times though and fear the future for their precious dogs
> 
> I really don't thing it's the DDA they need to be concentrating on, I think they need to concentrate more on how dogs are sold and passed on via all these silly sites that keep cropping up :mad2:


I think the DDA should start at the breeders, make them more responsible, they are producing these dogs. People need to be educated about, breeding, training, socialising all responsible aspects of producing and owning dogs, for their safety and for that of those they come in contact with! As things stand now the law does nothing to protect these poor people who have lost their lives in one of the most horrific deaths I could imagine :'(


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Going to close this for now, need to check through it and moderate.


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