# Harness Advice - Excitable Labrador



## ChicoRiko (Jun 12, 2012)

Hi there,

My 12 month old male labrador is still proving a terror on walks...
He has become great in the house, and we only have the odd naughty occurance.
He is a joy with young children and very playful. But as soon as we leave our house / garden, he becomes a different dog and turns deaf...

I am beginning one on one training with him in september but am still lacking the confidence to attend group socialisation classes as I am concerned wih his excitement when he sees other dogs.

He has slipped a few different collars when out and about as he throws himself around in his excitment and somehow manages to release his head (a proper houdini...)

I would favour a harness for security and have a simple one already and have also tried the canny collar.

The canny collar proves effective to a point, allowing me greater control, but he insits on continually battling against it and has caused damage to the edges of his mouth so I have seized use. The harness is good for security, especially as i can use a double clip lead incase he slips head but it is poor quality and often dangles along the floor on the rare occasion he walks next to me, as the adjuster clip is useless.

I would like to her any advice from those who have good experience with products as i really dont know what would be best. I need something which allows free movement as he enjoys a run and swim around our lake, but still offers security when encountering excitable situations.

I have been considering the Mekuti, The EZYDOG and the halti.

It must be strong, in-escapable and comforatble for him (prefereably not too complicated for me!)

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks


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## Qow (Jun 26, 2012)

I would recommend the perfect fit harness from dog games (they have a website). They are fleece lined. You can order one with a D ring on the front to give you control. Use it with a double ended lead. I recommend the halti training lead large size. It's v strong, can be used in a variety of ways and is inexpensive.

I use the lead attached to both the back and front of the harness for lead walking. It really reduces pulling.

In situations where I want to give him more freedom, but don't trust his recall then I just attach it to the back, though this does allow him to pull.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I wouldn't use a harness to stop pulling on a large dog unless you went for the one mentioned above with the D ring in the chest.
If he keeps slipping his collar, use a half check collar. You can get ones with either a chain one or an all fabric one. 
I would recommend a gencon headcollar to try for his pulling
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gencon-All-In-1-Clip-Collar-L-C2C/dp/B003NEJ1BO
You are controlling him from the side of the head rather than underneath or directly behind and because it tightens when he pulls it should be more effective for controlling him.
Why did you not start group training at 12 weeks or so just after his 2nd vaccination?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Lots of dog have also slipped out of a harness...so perhaps a good idea would be to use a harness as well as a collar both attached to a double ended lead..then if he slips out of one ..he is still safe


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## ChicoRiko (Jun 12, 2012)

To Wiz201,

I have failed to state in the post that I have adopted the dog. We only homed him from 10 months, therefore we have only had him 8 weeks and he came to us with no training.]

Thank you for your advice, I will check out the headcollar you suggest, however at the moment my main concern is to minimise stress and agitation so not to discourage him from wanting to go on walks.

Thank you


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## ChicoRiko (Jun 12, 2012)

Paddy Julie,

Exactly what I intend to do, have a collar and a harness, one to back up the other! Just not sure on best make/model set up! Really wondering what others have found sucessful!

Thanks


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I wasn't saying don't use a harness, just don't rely on them stopping him from pulling. The half check collar could be used in conjunction with a harness.


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## ChicoRiko (Jun 12, 2012)

Wiz201

Yes, I understand. Thanks

As long as it is not causing too much stress then I am happy to try anything!

The main problem I encountred with the canny wa the agitation and stress it caused. Although I do not expect him to like it, I really need to try and keep him as calm and focussed as possible when out and about in order to try and get along with his training. He will heel in the garden etc. but like I say, open that gate and we're off!

I just thought a good quality harness would provide a less stressful alternative as it is not over his face. I am willing to try anything at this point though!

I wish I had had him from 12 weeks, but he is now a very well built lab, with a puppy mind! Not a great combination! I know we will get there eventually as our Newfie is now very well behaved out and about but for the first 18 months was a nightmare on walks, dragging me over fence and around lamp-posts! 

At this rate I will have tried every product going, I'll be able to open a store! 

Thanks for your comments though!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I have a padded Dogmatic headcollar which helps me when I need close control of my dog - yours may prefer it to the one you currently have. It doesn't tighten as some do, doesn't ride up into the eyes and the control is from under the chin, so easy to turn the dog round gently if he fixates on something. Mine doesn't pull consistently so I don't know how it works for that but does get very excitable at times e.g., when we encounter cats!

I also have a Mekuti harness that I use for running with him - he runs to heel though and I didn't buy it for control of pulling, so again don't know how effective it is for that. It is good quality though and has multiple adjustment points so that you can get a good fit.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

In my experience canny collars aren't easy to put on. The only thing with gencons is that they can pull the nose bit off, so just push the tab right up to the head.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

How did you introduce the head collar to him in the first place? If you just put it on and off you went then it's no wonder it caused stress, they should be introduced slowly and made into a positive experience. This is how I got my dog used to wearing both a Halti and a muzzle Jean Donaldson gets conditioned emotional response while fitting Gentle Leader - YouTube

I used a half check collar with my last dog for security reasons. He was extremely fearful and when he panicked he threw himself around and if he got loose took off at top speed. The half check was adjusted so it was loose enough but if he pulled it would tighten enough that it wouldn't come over his head.

My current dog is a 15 month old Lab who came to me at 9 months old with no training. And he pulled like a steam train. I used a clicker to teach him where I wanted him to walk and while it's still a work in progress and he needs frequent reminders about not pulling he's a thousand times better than he was. He too gets very excited about things, other dogs and people who look like they want to fuss him, but it's helping with that too.


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

For pulling i always use a Gencon, used it on my lab who pulled an awful lot and it gave me full control, i can turn him where ever i like and he does not pull. I use them on dogs in rescue and they are great. Very simple to put on, and safe. 

It is vital that you introduce it correctly though, first pop it on in the house, lots of praise and treats, then slowly take it outside. 

Personally i dont like harnesses, i find their difficult to put on and when the dog is off lead on a walk i do not like to leave it on so therefore it would be difficult to pop them back on etc.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I think a harness and collar with a double ended lead is the best solution for your dog.

Of course the harness will not prevent your dog from pulling, neither will it train your dog, but it is often better tolerated by dogs than head halters.

However the design is crucial.

Do avoid anti pull ones, they are not kind on the dog; select one that has been designed with the canine anatomy in mind; leavin the shoulder and upper arm free from obstructions hampering movement and predisposing your dog to inflammation of the joints and muscles.

Also choose one which does not create heat.

Here are just a small selection of excellently designed models (othera are available) 

Tilley Farm TTouch Harnesses and Leads
Haqihana Italian hand made dog harness
https://www.kumfi.com/index.php/onlien-store/complete-control-harness-detail


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

He sounds like a typical young, lovely, bouncy Labrador 

My dog was 14 months when I adopted him and he was sooo excitable; he still is but they do calm down 

I use a headcollar, the *Dogmatic, padded version*. Pair this with a double-ended lead and you have far more control. One end clipped to the Dogmatic, the other clipped to the 'normal' collar.

Ezydog do a fab double-ended lead which I find really good and would recommend.

Or a padded Halti can work well.

I have never found a harness that helps; I have tried six, two or three were 'no pull' harnesses but still didn't give me enough control.

Labs are extremely strong, muscular dogs, so I think you are wise to try for either a harness OR a headcollar.

*RE GENCON:*

Based on my own experience I do not recommend this. _*It tightens A LOT*_ when the dog pulls or lunges, the *theory* being that the pressure will make the dog calm down and stop pulling etc. This never worked with my Lab and the strangled sounds he made when I tried the Gencon were HORRENDOUS.

*RE CANNY COLLAR*

I used this for a while but I suspect the design makes it VERY uncomfortable for the dog. Also because the attachment is at the back, the dog can soon learn how to pull even wearing it.

The Dogmatic is by far the best headcollar in my humble opinion - if you email them they will advise you re sizing.

If you do opt for a headcollar, *remember NEVER to jerk the lead and NEVER use it with a flexi/extending lead.*


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Gencons only make that effect when they're not fitted properly.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Never really looked at the Gencon....where does it actually tighten?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

ChicoRiko said:


> Paddy Julie,
> 
> Exactly what I intend to do, have a collar and a harness, one to back up the other! Just not sure on best make/model set up! Really wondering what others have found sucessful!
> 
> Thanks


I have always used the fleece type on Chester...and always with his collar, when I walk him this way he is a lot less reactive than just with collar alone 

Fleece Dog Harnesses | Dog Collars | Dog Harness | Dog Leads


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Wiz201 said:


> Gencons only make that effect when they're not fitted properly.


But is has unlimited tightening potential.



paddyjulie said:


> Never really looked at the Gencon....where does it actually tighten?


From the Gencon website: They consist of two loops, one goes over the nose, the other containing the lead or ring(s) round the neck. When the dog pulls they both tighten, restricting the whole head


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

Dogless said:


> But is has unlimited tightening potential.
> 
> From the Gencon website: They consist of two loops, one goes over the nose, the other containing the lead or ring(s) round the neck. When the dog pulls they both tighten, restricting the whole head


A slip lead also has unlimited tightening potential. The point is you have full contol of the head, meaning you have full control of your dog as a dog can not move foward when you are controling its head.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

hayleyth said:


> A slip lead also has unlimited tightening potential. The point is you have full contol of the head, meaning you have full control of your dog as a dog can not move foward when you are controling its head.


I understand what the point is. I use a headcollar but just prefer not to use a Gencon because of the unlimited tightening, same as I don't use a slip lead either.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Dogless said:


> But is has unlimited tightening potential.
> 
> From the Gencon website: They consist of two loops, one goes over the nose, the other containing the lead or ring(s) round the neck. When the dog pulls they both tighten, restricting the whole head


so not much different to a choke chain then?


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## hayleyth (May 9, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> so not much different to a choke chain then?


Quite a bit different actually. My rescue shelterdoesnt allow choke chains but we use gencons, same for rspca, so yes they are different.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

hayleyth said:


> Quite a bit different actually. My rescue shelterdoesnt allow choke chains but we use gencons, same for rspca, so yes they are different.


just because the rspca allows them..does not mean they are a good training tool

they cannot be good for a dog that throws himself about in excitement ...


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> Gencons only make that effect when they're not fitted properly.


Sorry but that is not correct. In fact on the Gencon website it *states* clearly that it's *meant* to work because it does tighten and the pressure is meant to teach the dog to stop pulling.

I know several people who have also tried the Gencon and had similar issues with it.

Now, that being said, I think it's great for dogs who walk nicely and only occasionally pull.

But for a very young, excitable dog, or a dog that lunges a lot, I would urge against using the Gencon.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I've been around a few agility dog shows and I've seen a few gencons being used on excitable lunging dogs and I know it can work. That's going to be the end of my input on the matter.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> I've been around a few agility dog shows and I've seen a few gencons being used on excitable lunging dogs and I know it can work. That's going to be the end of my input on the matter.


Nobody said the Gencon never works.

I have simply noted that it 'works' by tightening horribly which cannot be good for the dog wearing it.


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