# Q about refund / reimbursement



## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

My gorgeous Persain I adopted 2 months ago - turns out he is riddled with ringworm. As in riddled - it's all over his body and even in his ears . He had to be shaved and most of the spots were hidden by his coat. It was awful seeing them all as the vet shaved him. Yet, His coat was glossy, bright eyes, had no signs other than when I grromed him I noticed a couple if tufts of fur that looked like they had something stuck - like a small sore that was healing. It wasn't until I had a ringworm rash on my arm I put two and two tougher - and dr vet Google said it was probably ringworm that those bits of crust were.

Long story short - he is riddled with it to the extent that the vet said its not a recent infection - he had to have had it from very young. Ie he came from the breeder with it. Given I have 6 other oets that now need treatment. - a Lot of it - 6 weeks of oral tablets for all pets as well as iodine baths every 3 days for everyone as well. A logistic nightmare and distressing for everyone.

Anyway, I emailed the breeder, let her know becasue - a) I can't get him desexed until its compelled gone - so can't meet the contract deadline to have im desexed, b) so she can check the other kittens and her cats etc.

It was def a friendly email; I don't hold it against her or blame her at all - I dreaded telling her cos I knew she would be devastated 

Anyway - she replied - horrified - and is really upset - shes 82, loves her cats more than anything and is a relay knd sweet dear old lady - anyway, she's asked for my bank account details because she would like to pay towards some of the costs.

I don't feel comfy with this though - sure, it's cost me several hundred $$$ and is going to be very time consuming and very stressful (try bathing moggie cats - they HATE IT  ) and in some ways it's a kind gesture BUT - it's not her fault - he had no signs, there was no way to tell he had it, she didn't sell him knowing he had it, none of the other cats looked sick or had problems (they are all short hair, he was the one persain).

WWYD? As a breeder, is it something you would offer to pay for? Is is 'usual' to offer this, would she be more upset if I said ok, or refused? At the moment I'm defintley leaning towards politely declining her offer.

TIA :thumbup1:


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

not all 82 year old sweet old ladies are vulnerable...and hopefully this one isn't either.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

I certainly wouldn't let someone have my bank account details. What kind of thing is that for someone to ask for? A reimbursement comes in check, cash or money order, or direct pay to the vet. You don't ask someone for their "bank details"

Regardless of age, this person sold you a sick cat. I certainly would take the money to pay for the treatment.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Giving bank details is extremely common here and NZ, cheques are near non existent and have been for years.
All anyone can do is put money into your account. Vast majority of kittens are paid via bank transfer, and any refunds are dealt with the same way.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

If OP is from the UK, bank transfer is the most common way of payment for larger sums*. Gunter's breeder was actually pleasantly surprised that I was paying my deposit by cash, which was only because I'd gotten some Christmas money! I don't think most businesses accept cheques or money orders (I don't even know what that is! ) anymore as they're not as immediate and it is entirely possible to find that someone's cheque bounced! When asking for "bank details", people generally want: payment name, sort code and account number, and with that info you can only put money into the account. Those details are on cheques you write anyway so it's no more dangerous than writing a cheque. If the other person asked for your other personal details eg. address, date of birth, etc, then I'd be worried!

*Not for general online transactions so much as for things like paying rent, paying for a kitten, sending money to your friend etc.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I think I would take something for all this treatment you are having to pay for, yes.
Would you think twice if the breeder was 30 years old?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I wouldn't suspect anything untoward in her offer to pay towards your vet fees. Bank transfers are increasingly common but if you are unhappy with giving her your details you could ask for a cheque or payment via PayPal if that is available where you are.


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

yes, giving bank details is normal here - no one uses cheques anymore.

i do not mind giving her my bank details, that is not the issue at all

yes, if she was 30 yrs old i would still feel bad and not be so keen to tai ever up on here offer - but yes, her age and the poor health of her and her husband def is a factor. that and how much she loves her cats.

good point re her selling me a sick cat - the part that makes me hesitate about taking money off her is that *there wasn't a way for her to know he had it*. i believe she took her utmost best to raise a very healthy kitten and i don't see how she could have known he had ringworm.

so my question is more about how breeders think or feel if it happened to them - i.e., if you sold a cat that had a really bad case of ringworm, and you genuinely had NO idea - woulds you feel responsible enough for it, that you would offer to pay towards the costs of treatment?

even if its something you COULDN'T prevent?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I'm not a breeder but based on what you have said and if I were in your shoes and believed she genuinely didn't know and her cats are normally healthy etc...
I would still prob take something, because (the life of a cat aside, hard to do but this what they are in the eyes of the law I would of thought) but she sold you a faulty product. If she knew or not.
There's is nothing to be nasty about, just a "I appreciate the offer for something towards it as I did not expect to have to shell out all this money straight away" Not to mention this poor lil kitten being unwell and the stress that will cause you.

Also I expect you paid her for the cat? So it's like a partial refund.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

The short answer to your question is yes I would feel responsible and yes I would offer to contribute.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

lorilu said:


> I certainly wouldn't let someone have my bank account details. What kind of thing is that for someone to ask for? A reimbursement comes in check, cash or money order, or direct pay to the vet. You don't ask someone for their "bank details"
> 
> Regardless of age, this person sold you a sick cat. I certainly would take the money to pay for the treatment.


Look on any bill you have and you will find the company's bank details. It is no more than is printed on every cheque. What century are you living in?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Bank transfer is one of the most used forms of transactions, especially in business.
Noone can do anything with your bank details except give you money.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

So far I've not seen anything that indicates the breeder's cats have ringworm. Has she taken any of them to the vets to be checked? Since MM88's kitten glowed under a Woods Lamp I would expect some glowing from the breeder's cats. If I had someone telling me one of my kittens had it I'd be off to my vets PDQ. MM88 has had their kitten for almost 2 months, enough time for it to pick it up from their other cats (who might be asymptomatic) or it to be brought in by MM88 themselves.


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## Halo1 (May 22, 2014)

Breeders are meant to worm their kittens, most wormers cover ringworms, so had they not been wormed for a long time?



Muttly said:


> Bank transfer is one of the most used forms of transactions, especially in business.
> Noone can do anything with your bank details except give you money.


You can set up a direct debit online using someone else's bank details. I gave my details out to someone I later distrusted and when I phoned the bank they told me they could set things up online, and told me to keep a check on my account outgoings.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Halo1 said:


> Breeders are meant to worm their kittens, most wormers cover ringworms, so had they not been wormed for a long time?
> 
> You can set up a direct debit online using someone else's bank details. I gave my details out to someone I later distrusted and when I phoned the bank they told me they could set things up online, and told me to keep a check on my account outgoings.


Ringworm is a fungal infection;completely unrelated to intestinal worms.


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## Halo1 (May 22, 2014)

gskinner123 said:


> Ringworm is a fungal infection;completely unrelated to intestinal worms.


Ah, thanks. I think I was thinking of Roundworm.


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## Halo1 (May 22, 2014)

gskinner123 said:


> Ringworm is a fungal infection;completely unrelated to intestinal worms.


Ignore this post. I've had a bang to the head today and am a little


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Halo1 said:


> Ignore this post. I've had a bang to the head today and am a little


I think you mean for us to ignore your other post, not gskinners!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

OrientalSlave said:


> I think you mean for us to ignore your other post, not gskinners!


I think we should ignore all of them lol. Poor Halo is obviously having one "those" days that I too frequently have myself


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

MM88....do you keep any birds aswell as cats? I mean like parrots and ducks?


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## Halo1 (May 22, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> I think you mean for us to ignore your other post, not gskinners!





gskinner123 said:


> I think we should ignore all of them lol. Poor Halo is obviously having one "those" days that I too frequently have myself


Ignore all my posts today, had a head on crash to the temple with our big dog whilst chasing a ball earlier. (The dog is fine). My son keeps asking me things to make sure I'm all there.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Look on any bill you have and you will find the company's bank details. It is no more than is printed on every cheque. What century are you living in?


What are you being so snotty for? I misunderstood what the post meant. Identity theft is a huge deal. Geez.


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> So far I've not seen anything that indicates the breeder's cats have ringworm. Has she taken any of them to the vets to be checked? Since MM88's kitten glowed under a Woods Lamp I would expect some glowing from the breeder's cats. If I had someone telling me one of my kittens had it I'd be off to my vets PDQ. MM88 has had their kitten for almost 2 months, enough time for it to pick it up from their other cats (who might be asymptomatic) or it to be brought in by MM88 themselves.


I've explained this already - quite a few times:

A) the vet said he was SO BADLY infected he had had it much longer than the short time I've hd him

B) it WON'T alway show up under the woods lamp - that only works in up to 70% of the time

she hadn't had any reported problems form the over kittens, and she has already rehomed most of the queens and studs. I do not know if she is haivng the 1-2 remaining breeding cats checked or not, but I imagin she would.

I'm also not ASKING or even EXPECTING her to pay towards the costs - she OFFERED - and I'm hesitant to take her up on the offer - hence this thread.


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> MM88....do you keep any birds aswell as cats? I mean like parrots and ducks?


Nope... I do however volunteer at the local animal shelter and that's immediatley where I thought it came from, as the ring appeared 4-5 days after my shift there.

It wasn't until i googled signs of it in cats that I discovered that - espcially with long hair cats - there can be no visible signs; the fur doesn't always 'fall out' or break off and there can be no 'red patches'. What HE has is some tiny skin tufts close to the skin; not visible but you could feel them; and when I parted the fur I could see the tufts had some kinda sort of crust like stuff - I'd discovered that a week or two before I got the ring on me.

I took him to be checked thinkng it might be ringworm, and when the vet diagnosed him and then shaved him ll vr- it was so apparent the poor boy was RIDDLED with it 

If I can work out how too, I'll post a pic somewhere so others can see what it looks like - cos even looking at him shaved you couldn't tell its 'ringworm' in the hat most people would expect to see.

Before he was shaved his fur still looked great! Wasn't dull, his eyes bright, etc.

Even now he's shaved you can't SEE all the patches, but you can feel them - which is what I'd LOVE to post pics for others to see - I think it would be a great educational tool.

Part of the reason got it so bad is he was much more vulnerable to it - kitten (cats can build immunity to it), and a persian (more prone to skin conditions as a breed) and a long hair coat (ringworm is more prevalent in long hair cats - it's a genetics thing apparently)


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

Muttly said:


> I'm not a breeder but based on what you have said and if I were in your shoes and believed she genuinely didn't know and her cats are normally healthy etc...
> I would still prob take something, because (the life of a cat aside, hard to do but this what they are in the eyes of the law I would of thought) but she sold you a faulty product. If she knew or not.
> There's is nothing to be nasty about, just a "I appreciate the offer for something towards it as I did not expect to have to shell out all this money straight away" Not to mention this poor lil kitten being unwell and the stress that will cause you.
> 
> Also I expect you paid her for the cat? So it's like a partial refund.


Thanks - that's what I think I'll do - I haven't replied to her email yet; as I was waiting to think what the best thing to do is.

She asked for my bank details, and made the offer - I feel bad about it but I think I will reply and say 'thank your for the offer, I certainly wasn't 'expecting' any reimbursement - if you would like to put a small contribution towards the cost of treatment, then my bank details are.....'

I feel bad she hasn't asked for proof or anything - I AM a very very honest person, but if I were her id probably not be quite as trusting. I might ask my vet for some paperwork, and send it to her under the guise of 'just to confirm why he can't be neutered as per the contract' and ask the vet to put a timeframe as to when he can be done. That way she can 'see' it's legit, and I'm thinkng she might need something for her records to state why his op won't be for anoter6-8 weeks...


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

If you don't feel comfortable accepting payments towards treatment, then tell her, respspectfully, that its just one of those things.

Ringworm can be brought in from outside, on clothing or whatever - if she is offering to pay for treatment, she wasn't trying to scam you by selling you poorly kitties - but from your post, I get the impression you know that anyway.

As for asking for bank details - all the details you need to supply, for someone to make a payment into your account, is printed on a cheque already - bank transfer is probably less risky, as you dont give anyone a copy of your signature, like you do with a cheque


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Halo1 said:


> Breeders are meant to worm their kittens, most wormers cover ringworms, so had they not been wormed for a long time?
> 
> You can set up a direct debit online using someone else's bank details. I gave my details out to someone I later distrusted and when I phoned the bank they told me they could set things up online, and told me to keep a check on my account outgoings.


It's a very slow way to steal money and you can get those details from a cheque too.


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## Lemonzaz (Mar 15, 2015)

Please could you pm me her prefix? 
It sounds like someone I have been in contact with, when you mentioned her age, and obviously i would rather not go forward with my enquiry if it's the same person x


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

Lemonzaz said:


> Please could you pm me her prefix?
> It sounds like someone I have been in contact with, when you mentioned her age, and obviously i would rather not go forward with my enquiry if it's the same person x


if you're in the uk it's def not the same person 

Re bank transfers - I fail to see the big deal - someone can deposit money into yur acct but can't take it out! The password system where I live is very robust - there are safety words you must fill out - any one of a few you have made - as well as the main password.

Still can't decide what to do -I had a change of heart - leaning towards not taking her up on her offer... Then this morning ...

I battle these two points:

1) don't take the money - she didn't know, had no way of knowing, it's not her fadult

2) but given I paid a good amount of money - shouldnt I expect higher standard than if I bought the kitten from a pet shop and it came with ringworm?

Then I think - as a breeder - yes she has an obligation to do her utmost to sell me a healthy kitten....

But didn't she do this? Her utmost best and this couldn't have been foreseen?


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I have bred kittens and im sure i would know if any of mine had got ringworm, surely she handled the kittens and could tell the fur wasnt right, i go all over mine before they leave ,so im sure this lady would be able to tell, or she didnt groom or handlen them much
I would accept at least some payment towards the vet bill


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

MightyMouse88 said:


> I battle these two points:
> 
> 1) don't take the money - she didn't know, had no way of knowing, it's not her fadult
> 
> 2) but given I paid a good amount of money - shouldnt I expect higher standard than if I bought the kitten from a pet shop and it came with ringworm?


Surely question No. 1 cancels out question No. 2. If you believe she didn't know, had no way of knowing and it's not her fault how could you expect a "higher standard" ?


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> not all 82 year old sweet old ladies are vulnerable...and hopefully this one isn't either.


Some are what you can call tough cookies.


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

jaycee05 said:


> I have bred kittens and im sure i would know if any of mine had got ringworm, surely she handled the kittens and could tell the fur wasnt right, i go all over mine before they leave ,so im sure this lady would be able to tell, or she didnt groom or handlen them much
> I would accept at least some payment towards the vet bill


I only found it by accident - and that was when he was very riddled with it - it was probably assymptomatic when he was sold. Most of it you could on,y see when he was shaved. Not even the vet could tell the severity until she was shaving him - it was awful seeing more and more sores come up.

He never lost fur and the coat looked bright and normal.


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

gskinner123 said:


> Surely question No. 1 cancels out question No. 2. If you believe she didn't know, had no way of knowing and it's not her fault how could you expect a "higher standard" ?


That's my dilemma - I suppose I was thinkng 'higher standard' not so much in relation to this, but to a kittens overall health - so much work is done to ensure the healthiest kitten possible, right? And I dunno but I guess I do think a cat bred and screened to be as healthy as possible, ought to mean it's less likley than a pet shop Moggie to bespoke with problems - known or not?

But yes - I think she did everything she could have - if I dint, I'd have asked for costs to be reimbursed.

I sitll haven't emailed her - I keep putting it off

Ironic thing is - last year I adoptd a kitten straight off a farm where the mother was semi- wild and had her kittens in the barn. If any of my cats had ringworm, I'd have excited it tobe her that arrived with it and bought it into the house. Go figure


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

MightyMouse88 said:


> I only found it by accident - and that was when he was very riddled with it - it was probably assymptomatic when he was sold. Most of it you could on,y see when he was shaved. Not even the vet could tell the severity until she was shaving him - it was awful seeing more and more sores come up.
> 
> He never lost fur and the coat looked bright and normal.


Have the skin scrapings shown it is ringworm? It's highly unusual for there not to be hair loss and bald patches.......


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## MightyMouse88 (Aug 20, 2014)

Soupie said:


> Have the skin scrapings shown it is ringworm? It's highly unusual for there not to be hair loss and bald patches.......


the vet didn't do scrapings as in send them off for tests - it was based on the hair shafts where the 'crust' stuff was, was glowing bright fluro - i know its possible to have a falls positive but it was pretty convincing because the fur she pulled out to look at where the crust was, was what glowed the strongest. now he is shave,d you can see SOME of them to have small bits of fur missing - but most don't. i did find out in my online searches, its not that uncommon for cats to not have missing fur or bald patches - it can be as sublet as 'dandruff' looking:

Signs & Treatment of Ringworm Infections in Cats | VCA Animal Hospitals

still event emailed her - i guess that's my decision then

his felt like small crust patches - id say more like the 'cigarette ash' described in this article.


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