# Breeding for profit..



## Glittereve (Jun 7, 2017)

Firstly, what a ditz Didn't notice what predictive text had done to the title till I posted and now can't see a way to edit it! What a great start

Hi all, I just want to play devils advocate for a minute. I don't breed any kind of animal myself at the moment and just have 2 rescue mutts and a moggie!!

But my family used to breed pedigree ponies, only in a small way with one or two mares and profits were never guaranteed or huge, however there was always a clear intent to make money from the enterprise. We are all animal lovers and it was both a hobby and a small business with animals well cared for. The same is often true of people who breed other pedigree animals.

So my question is this, why is there such distaste for the idea of profit in breeding pedigree cats and dogs? It seems almost to be an immoral concept to many people. There are unwanted dogs and cats, but plenty of rescue horses and ponies out there too.

I assume much of it is the fear of encouraging puppy and kitten mills. And the annoyance and distaste that anyone doing it properly, with care for the animals and the future of the breed feels for those breeding without care for either.

Apologies if I'm offending anyone, that's not my intent. The difference in approach and attitude just struck me as interesting. I know nothing about the costs of breeding so I don't want to start another thread about whether or not profits are possible by a responsible breeder. More a philosophical discussion about why it is not desirable!
I thought it might be interesting....


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If breeding cats is done right it's very hard to make money if costs are properly counted. The way to make money is to send kittens to new homes at 8 weeks, before they are vaccinated (cost money), wormed (costs money), registered (costs money and not usually possible as parents not registered for breeding), before they spend 5 weeks eating as much as an adult (costs money), producing proportionate output (cat litter costs money).... You get the picture. 

For example by the time the 'cheap' 8-week old 'siamese' kitten (say £250) has been vaccinated, wormed, neutered, fed for 5-6 weeks, had cat litter provided for 5-6 weeks, it may well have cost the owner as much as one of my Siamese, registered, vaccinated, wormed, neutered 13 week old kittens but the 'breeder' has very little outlay. Barring problems with delivery most of the costs are in that last 5 weeks, especially for people using their own studs.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm pretty sure you have answered your own question to be honest. Interesting opening thread from a new member who wants to play devils advocate.


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## Glittereve (Jun 7, 2017)

Thanks for your reply! I can see everything you say would be true, but surely there are people out to make a quick buck at any cost in every area of life though? Why is cat breeding different to horse breeding or breeding pedigree cattle in this respect? 

Your reply made me think though, maybe an average person buying a family pet is less knowledgeable than an average horse buyer or farmer? Is that the problem do you think? Nobody will buy a foal that is younger than 6 months old, so there's no point in trying to sell one before then. And nobody will pay extra for a 'pedigree' foal that isn't registered, or that isn't worth extra based on it's breeding, or that isn't in good shape. 

But I suppose many people buying a pet cat wouldn't have the same knowledge.

Which then makes the concept of profit such a touchy one with good breeders?


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Glittereve said:


> Thanks for your reply! I can see everything you say would be true, but surely there are people out to make a quick buck at any cost in every area of life though? Why is cat breeding different to horse breeding or breeding pedigree cattle in this respect?


Actually it isn't any different. When I bred ponies I NEVER made any money. I lost quite a lot, and certainly few breeders I knew ever made any money breeding horses. In fact most made their money by breaking and selling ridden ponies and by giving lessons and producing ridden animals for others, as that is where the money is made.

Having said that horses are generally seen as 'livestock' and only have one foal a year, it is far harder to cover your costs from that one foal, who unless it is a thoroughbred or a warmblood will simply not command a price that will cover the mare and stallions yearly keep. Cats and dogs on the other hand have far more offspring in one go, and cats particularly can have more than one litter a year. Those that breed for profit in Canine and Feline circles have be seen to be a certain type of person i.e. breed them repeatedly and flog them young. The costs involved in rearing a litter of kittens means that in order to make a profit that a business would deem adequate, you simply wouldn't be able to sell the kittens because noone would pay the price being asked.


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## Glittereve (Jun 7, 2017)

you know what tiger moon you're probably dead right! It's more an elaborate way of saving than of actually making anything . Pump money in all year and get a toughly similar amount back at the end of the year! (If you're lucky) Breeding horses that is.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I think the answer to your question is that most breeders do it for a hobby and few people expect to make a profit from a hobby


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Glittereve said:


> Firstly, what a ditz Didn't notice what predictive text had done to the title till I posted and now can't see a way to edit it! What a great start
> 
> Hi all, I just want to play devils advocate for a minute. I don't breed any kind of animal myself at the moment and just have 2 rescue mutts and a moggie!!
> 
> ...


I've edited thread title for you.


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## Glittereve (Jun 7, 2017)

Thank you!


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## Glittereve (Jun 7, 2017)

And I think I have really answered the question with your help, thank you all. Breeding pedigree pets is just simply more open to abuse than other breeding industries hence the stigma associated with the concept of profit. One can happily express the hope or desire to make money in other breeding industries (leaving aside for a moment whether that hope is a foolish one ). But with cats and dogs it's possible to make that hope more probable by behaving unethically. In a way that just isn't as possible in other areas. Does that sum it up do you think?


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Glittereve said:


> And I think I have really answered the question with your help, thank you all. Breeding pedigree pets is just simply more open to abuse than other breeding industries hence the stigma associated with the concept of profit. One can happily express the hope or desire to make money in other breeding industries (leaving aside for a moment whether that hope is a foolish one ). But with cats and dogs it's possible to make that hope more probable by behaving unethically. In a way that just isn't as possible in other areas. Does that sum it up do you think?


Yeah. In horses and cattle you generally get one offspring and have to wait months for not only that offspring to be born but to reach a saleable age, usually 18-24 months from mating to sale. So a person looking to gain back what they've spent cannot be viewed in the same way as someone who produces say, 3 litters of kittens a year from a cat and flogs them at 8 weeks for a couple of hundred pounds each and often with some faked link to a breed (which will put another hundred on).


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