# Stud Dog Fee Pricing



## Kayleigh Rowland (Jul 11, 2015)

We are currently drafting up an agreement between us (stud owners) and an aquaintance through mutual friends (bitch owner), from the beginning of the discussion we were both explicit in that we both wanted to be involved in this litter, with visits, and covering the puppies expenses 50%. In return for this we decided on a 60%/40% split of profits in her favour. The bitch is now in season and we are waiting for her to enter her Estrus period and the bitch owner has expressed the wish to possibly keep one of the puppies. In terms of our arrangement, should she take a puppy completely free of charge and we split the others as previously agreed, or should we be seeking a small payment of 10-20% of what the puppy is worth? We are trying to make it as fair as possible for both parties, is the fact she is whelping and raising the puppies enough justification for allowing her to take a puppy completely free?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Kayleigh Rowland said:


> We are currently drafting up an agreement between us (stud owners) and an aquaintance through mutual friends (bitch owner), from the beginning of the discussion we were both explicit in that we both wanted to be involved in this litter, with visits, and covering the puppies expenses 50%. In return for this we decided on a 60%/40% split of profits in her favour. The bitch is now in season and we are waiting for her to enter her Estrus period and the bitch owner has expressed the wish to possibly keep one of the puppies. In terms of our arrangement, should she take a puppy completely free of charge and we split the others as previously agreed, or should we be seeking a small payment of 10-20% of what the puppy is worth? We are trying to make it as fair as possible for both parties, is the fact she is whelping and raising the puppies enough justification for allowing her to take a puppy completely free?


Have you looked at what the "going rate" is for puppies in your breed (assuming that the quality of your breeding stock is similar, and the extent of health testing is the same) and have you also looked at what the "going rate" is for a stud (assuming that the quality of your breeding stock is similar and health testing etc)

Have you made contingency plans in the event of a singleton puppy? Of puppies of the "wrong" sex? What about if veterinary treatment is required eg a caesarean or a bloat? What about if the puppies are resorbed, born dead or die of fading puppy sydrome or similar?

if the bitch owner wants to take a pup, have you agreed whose pick it will be or whether it will be first or second pick etc?

FYI many stud dog owners will take a pup i lieu of a stud fee it less usual for to happen.

There are many things to think about


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Kayleigh Rowland said:


> We are currently drafting up an agreement between us (stud owners) and an aquaintance through mutual friends (bitch owner), from the beginning of the discussion we were both explicit in that we both wanted to be involved in this litter, with visits, and covering the puppies expenses 50%. In return for this we decided on a 60%/40% split of profits in her favour. The bitch is now in season and we are waiting for her to enter her Estrus period and the bitch owner has expressed the wish to possibly keep one of the puppies. In terms of our arrangement, should she take a puppy completely free of charge and we split the others as previously agreed, or should we be seeking a small payment of 10-20% of what the puppy is worth? We are trying to make it as fair as possible for both parties, is the fact she is whelping and raising the puppies enough justification for allowing her to take a puppy completely free?


I'm actually surprised that the owner of the bitch has agreed to these terms.

Normally, the stud dog owner charges a fee or takes a pup from the litter. For you to take 40% of any profit is quite unusual.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable for the bitch's owner to keep a pup free of charge.

Have you agreed what you would do in the event of large vet bills, say if the bitch needs a C Section or develops eclampsia? What will you do if the pups need hand rearing?

Conscientious breeders stipulate that any pup, at any stage of it's life, be returned to them if need be. Which one of you will be prepared to take back, say, a three year old dog?

Truthfully, this arrangement seems weighted in your favour to me.


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## Kayleigh Rowland (Jul 11, 2015)

I definitely acknowledge its weighted in our favour, it is more of a case of we share joint risks and gains as such, and that will include all c-section, eclampsia etc, we are fully prepared in that circumstance. This post has come about mainly because of debate between me and my fiancé, he believes we should take a small fee as we would lose a lot from one pup not being sold, but in my eyes i feel if she whelps and raises those pups, it is reasonable for her to be entitled to one. The 60/40 comes from it being a joint venture per se with weight to her for raising the puppies.


ETA: Both of us are well placed for returns of dogs, and it is in the breeders contract to buyer that they must be returned to us, and I have accepted that. Tbh I would rather they did come back to me than be shipped from home to home


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I find it so sad that people's main concerns about breeding who is making and losing the most money!


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## Kayleigh Rowland (Jul 11, 2015)

Hi Smokeybear,

The going rate for puppies of the breed is approximately £2000. Going rate for a stud is the price of a pup apparently. 
In the event of a singleton puppy, it will either stay with the owner if she wishes to keep it and we will take a minimum stud fee of £500, or it will be sold and profits split 50/50 after costs.
If Veterinary treatment is required, such as a c-section, we have agreed with the owner that if it is believed by the vet to be in the best interests of the puppy/s then we will contribute 50%, the way we see it is joint risk / joint reward. If we are unsuccessful or the puppies are not viable I will not be taking a fee and we will try again in the next season. We have already agreed if we both want a pup, she will pick first, this is because she wants to continue with her breeding as more of a business, whereas i am happy with my stud and any further dogs in my care will be pet only, and their appearance/sex will be less of an issue to me.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Kayleigh Rowland said:


> I definitely acknowledge its weighted in our favour, it is more of a case of we share joint risks and gains as such, and that will include all c-section, eclampsia etc, we are fully prepared in that circumstance. This post has come about mainly because of debate between me and my fiancé, he believes we should take a small fee as we would lose a lot from one pup not being sold, but in my eyes i feel if she whelps and raises those pups, it is reasonable for her to be entitled to one. The 60/40 comes from it being a joint venture per se with weight to her for raising the puppies.
> 
> ETA: Both of us are well placed for returns of dogs, and it is in the breeders contract to buyer that they must be returned to us, and I have accepted that. Tbh I would rather they did come back to me than be shipped from home to home


Raising a litter of pups is awfully hard work.

Staying up all night with the bitch when she's whelping, maybe having to make an emergency trip to the vet in the early hours, weaning, worming, clearing up behind them once they become mobile, even clipping their little claws regularly. All are very time consuming and tiring.

I would say a pup from the litter is the least the bitch's owner should expect and, if your Husband thinks you are owed a small fee, I believe he's very wrong.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Can I ask what breed this is and, have both Parents been health tested? Are they Kennel Club Registered?


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## Kayleigh Rowland (Jul 11, 2015)

Meezey said:


> I find it so sad that people's main concerns about breeding are making and losing money!


Not that at all, but I do not want arguments with the breeder down the line, and we should take some kind of fee for his service obviously? My concern is furthering the breed, and he is a fantastic example. That will always be my primary focus.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Kayleigh Rowland said:


> Not that at all, but I do not want arguments with the breeder down the line, and we should take some kind of fee for his service obviously? My concern is furthering the breed, and he is a fantastic example. That will always be my primary focus.


Yet your conversation is all based round profits and losses?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Kayleigh Rowland said:


> Not that at all, but I do not want arguments with the breeder down the line, and we should take some kind of fee for his service obviously? My concern is furthering the breed, and he is a fantastic example. That will always be my primary focus.


Absolutely. You're entitled to a stud fee. What I find highly unusual is your belief that you're entitled to nearly half of any 'profit' from this litter.

The owner of the bitch must be very uninformed to agree to such an arrangement.


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## Ann Imse (Jul 10, 2015)

i need a good dog!


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## Ann Imse (Jul 10, 2015)

i need a good dog, can u help?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

In my opinion it is far better for there to be a single transaction (stud fee) and thereafter the bitch owner is free of all conditions and entitlements. 

Far too much could go wrong, and the bitch owner is doing all the hard work, plus bearing the monetary and emotional cost... and do not underestimate the emotional investment.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

Sweety said:


> The owner of the bitch must be very uninformed to agree to such an arrangement.


That's my worry, too.

I'm afraid to me this demonstrates that neither party have any concept of what is involved in the breeding, nurturing and onward care of a litter of puppies. Apart from trying to work out the profit that is. I'm sure '£2000 a puppy' is quite a lure.

It's 10 weeks of hard work if done properly. You don't get your money back for the hours you put in.

The idea that the puppies are no more that a business transaction isn't very palatable to me I'm afraid.

J


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

"Profits"? Are you talking about living animals or selling junk on e bay? Good grief. I also have not seen an answer to the question about health tests. Sigh. just....sigh........


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## Darth (May 18, 2011)

Kayleigh Rowland said:


> Not that at all, but I do not want arguments with the breeder down the line, and we should take some kind of fee for his service obviously? My concern is furthering the breed, and he is a fantastic example. That will always be my primary focus.


Sorry to say this, but it sounds like you're taking advantage of the bitch owners inexperience.

Take a stud fee without worrying about splitting "profits", the bitch owner will have all the care and emotional strain of the litter, you won't be able to split that fairly. There's going to be hard feelings down the line if you try to do it this way.

Don't forget to reply about the health tests......you should be aiming to breed healthy puppies as well as good examples of the breed.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Kayleigh Rowland said:


> We are currently drafting up an agreement between us (stud owners) and an aquaintance through mutual friends (bitch owner), from the beginning of the discussion we were both explicit in that we both wanted to be involved in this litter, with visits, and covering the puppies expenses 50%. In return for this we decided on a 60%/40% split of profits in her favour. The bitch is now in season and we are waiting for her to enter her Estrus period and *the bitch owner has expressed the wish to possibly keep one of the puppies*. In terms of our arrangement, should she take a puppy completely free of charge and we split the others as previously agreed, or should we be seeking a small payment of 10-20% of what the puppy is worth? We are trying to make it as fair as possible for both parties, is the fact she is whelping and raising the puppies enough justification for allowing her to take a puppy completely free?


to POSSIBLY keep one of the puppies. If not what is the purpose of this mating - seems to be a money making exercise.
This is a very unusual arrangement and I would never agree to such terms as a bitch owner - which makes me think the bitch owner doesn't know what she's doing. I would also question your lack of knowledge too - how do you know your dog is a good example of the breed? Drawing up souch an aggreement is very unusual so I would doubt you are involved in the dogs world.

There are lots of very big question marks here - I would not want a stud owner to have such an influence on what happens to a litter. Your talk of vet fees and costs shared and the cost of the puppy makes me think these may be a hard to whelp breed. In which case, working out the profit should not be your priority - the prioity should be working towards a self whelping line - profit doesn't enter it.

If you expect such a large percentage of the profits are you prepared to put the time in too, not just the cost? Are you prepared to spend night after night looking after the pups and bitch in the early days etc. I hope if you are you know the bitch well because I certainly wouldn't be allowing a stranger around in the first weeks. And what will happen if she has no pups? Or only one pup? There seems so much wrong with this arrangement that I can see it ending in tears.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Kayleigh Rowland said:


> she will pick first, this is because she wants to continue with her breeding as more of a business,


Now why is that no surprise!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

There's very few breeds that 'usually cost about £2000' and if it's the breed I suspect then good luck with any 'profits' after a c-section


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Surely it is better to iron out any possible problems re the money side of things before hand as the OP is trying to do. What is wrong with that. It is certainly an unusual arrangement but if it suits them both that is none of our business. Actually in a lot of ways I would say the dog owner is at a disadvantage if it is a difficult whelping breed. Instead of taking a stud fee of maybe £2000 they are risking having massive vets bills to pay rather than the bitch owner taking all the financial risk as is usually the case. 

Not sure about the answer to the bitch owner taking a pup. If you both definitely wanted one each then under your terms it would balance out but if only one of you takes a pup it skews things a bit. On the other hand if the bitch owner is going to be doing the work albeit without all the expenses then maybe she deserves a pup.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Kayleigh Rowland said:


> We have already agreed if we both want a pup, she will pick first, this is because she wants to continue with her breeding as more of a business, whereas i am happy with my stud and any further dogs in my care


Anyone else thinking "Grazia reader?"


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Blitz said:


> What is wrong with that. It is certainly an unusual arrangement but if it suits them both that is none of our business.


It's anyone's business who wants it to be, since they posted the questions here in this public forum.


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Ooo this just lack detail... what breed are we talking? Interesting view point as I've never heard of this kind of agreement before .. 
You say he is an excellent example.. what makes you say this? Show winner? or.. ? Just curious as to what people think makes their dog an excellent example of a breed


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

£2000 a pup surely has to be something like a bulldog doesn't it? I'm thinking about 4 puppies and a caesarean but might be wrong. As for choosing a puppy for herself then she pays the going price for it to the partnership of you and her as if she was any other puppy buyer, and she gets back her 60% "profit" from the sale. But I'm also concerned no answer about KC endorsements or health tests, it's not all about money, it's about raising healthy puppies and benefitting the breed. I'm concerned you met through mutual friends rather than through a breed club or because your dog had already produced healthy litters of well mannered puppies and he was recommended to her as a good stud. Do you have experience of mating dogs, do you know what to do if she fights him off, panics at being tied etc or is it easy money for a few minutes of your dog's time?


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## Nagini (Jan 13, 2014)

akita can also command in excess of 2k


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> Anyone else thinking "Grazia reader?"


Hard times since 'Destinys Child' broke up?


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## StrawberryBlonde (May 27, 2015)

Plainly out of interest I too would like to know what breed were talking about here. Only breeds iv seen asking £2000 are bulldogs, giant breeds or todays trend for Frenchies in 'rare' colours. Pfffft.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

so what breed we talking about


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## Cerijoanne (Jun 28, 2015)

What an interesting thread  you guys are right, doesn't seem like there's a lot of actual breeding knowledge here...and even if there is....not for the right reasons :Banghead


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