# Where could I get a proper nethie dwarf?



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

I have two, but even though their from proper breeders, they don't look quite like neths should (though they are getting better now their a bit older, rounded up over the winter). My cousin got one at random in a pet shop or garden centre and it looked bang on like a neth. So where or how could I make sure I got one that did look like the breed standard? Or would I have to buy one fully grown to be sure instead of a baby rabbit?


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2013)

Why is everything about looks with you 
If you want a show standard nethie you will need to find a reputable nethie breeder that breeds for show, and then you need to try to convince them to sell one of their show stock.

A nethie, is a nethie is a nethie no matter if they meet the breed standard or not :mellow:
Also I might add that show standard nethies are at a higher risk of needing dentals and or tear duct flushing due to the fact their mouths aren't big enough for all their teeth.

Why can't you be happy with the two beautiful nethies you have now?


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

You already have two 'proper nethie dwarves' that look like...netherland dwarves 

Don't tell me your cousin's nethie has made you jealous- made you realise that you always wanted one just like it- and now you're upset as your nethies are not _proper_ nethies after all, no matter how much you pretend. Where've I heard this before?

Why would you need one that looked typical of the breed standard? Are you hoping to show?

I recollect you saying that you wouldn't have any other rabbits...

Enjoy your girls- you're incredibly lucky to have them- don't compare them to what they 'should' look like. It's all about appearances with you, it seems :mellow:


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Do you know what the breed standard even is? And if you did find one what are you going to do with it? Where would you house it? How wold you afford to neuter it? How would it affect your relationship with your other rabbits?


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Why is everything about looks with you
> If you want a show standard nethie you will need to find a reputable nethie breeder that breeds for show, and then you need to try to convince them to sell one of their show stock.
> 
> A nethie, is a nethie is a nethie no matter if they meet the breed standard or not :mellow:
> ...


Their not everything but they do play a part. They did come froma show breeder. I never said I wasn't happy with them.



JordanRose said:


> You already have two 'proper nethie dwarves' that look like...netherland dwarves
> 
> Don't tell me your cousin's nethie has made you jealous- made you realise that you always wanted one just like it- and now you're upset as your nethies are not _proper_ nethies after all, no matter how much you pretend. Where've I heard this before?
> 
> ...


Funny..........not.



Lopside said:


> Do you know what the breed standard even is? And if you did find one what are you going to do with it? Where would you house it? How wold you afford to neuter it? How would it affect your relationship with your other rabbits?


Sort of, mostly yes. I wouldn't put it with my two and I wouldn't neuter it, as I don't think you can show them like that.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> Their not everything but they do play a part. They did come froma show breeder. I never said I wasn't happy with them.
> 
> Funny..........not.
> 
> Sort of, mostly yes. I wouldn't put it with my two and I wouldn't neuter it, as I don't think you can show them like that.


errrr..... you didn't say this then?


> they don't look quite like neths should


I think you will find that your two DO look like nethies, not show standard but they are nethies none the less  The breeder of your two is a show breeder if I'm a pretty lil princess, for a start if they bred show standard you would be going back 

You also do remember the conversation we had about adding another rabbit to your duo right?
You know the one that we talked about it not being as easy as just throwing another rabbit into the mix? You know the one where I warned you that adding another rabbit to the mix could very well split up the bond you have with your original two?
Just having an entire rabbit in the same area could cause serious referred aggression....

Or does that now not matter because "I WANT, I WANT, I WANT...

Seriously wobbles get a grip.....


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> Sort of, mostly yes. I wouldn't put it with my two and I wouldn't neuter it, as I don't think you can show them like that.


but if you don't neuter it will have to live alone... do they really not neuter show rabbits? , does that mean all show buns are kept alone?


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

hippymama said:


> but if you don't neuter it will have to live alone... do they really not neuter show rabbits? , does that mean all show buns are kept alone?


Show rabbits are not allowed to be neutered no, they have to be kept entire unless you show pets, which is one of the huge issues with showing...

Actually Wobbles, how do you propose to even get to any shows? You can't get to any breeders and there are no big shows near you... sooooo why do you want a show rabbit again???

If there are pet shows close to you then there is nothing wrong with the rabbits you have now...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

B3rnie said:


> Why is everything about looks with you
> If you want a show standard nethie you will need to find a reputable nethie breeder that breeds for show, and then you need to try to convince them to sell one of their show stock.
> 
> A nethie, is a nethie is a nethie no matter if they meet the breed standard or not :mellow:
> ...


Is that right? That is rather a design flaw on nature's part, isn't it? That is so upsetting.

I just wanted to say that my Ferdie has a tail which does not conform to breed standards. It curls up like a Tibetan Mastiff's, not straight out like a newfie's is supposed to. I don't want to nag, Wobbles, you will get enough of that, but I love him anyway and even if I had bought him to show, it wouldn't matter to me that his tail isn't right.

I struggle to understand the way you don't seem to have that bond with your smaller animals that most people on here do. Your dog, yes, but not the others.


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

There's the nethies - on the scrap heap along with the unloved poodle 

You are shameless Wobbles, you really are... I WANT I WANT I WANT....

You say you are 25(ish), I don't believe for a second that you are any older than 14! If you are, you seriously need to grow up!!! 

I believe the ratties had a very, very lucky escape from such a self centered brat!

(Sorry about this post everyone, its been long overdue!) :mad5:


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Good point, how WILL you travel to shows? You would need to be there early in the morning & be there all day until late afternoon on a saturday or a sunday.
Referring to your search for a "proper nethie" implies you are unhappy with the two you've got. I 100% agree that it may well cause referred aggression between your two girls, they haven't really had a trouble free bond so far have they? Honestly I am struggling to understand you. I have three proper frenchies, one is not really very proper, and the other two are VERY proper. My mini lop is extremely proper except she's a bit big, but she's a doe. My rescue German isn't proper at all, except for his stumpy neck, but he is really sweet. It's characters that make rabbits interesting & perfect & fun, not the length of their ears or posture. :mad5:
How are you going to afford the cost of a rabbit, plus a courier, plus a new 6ft accomodation & run, as you are always pleading poverty? A new rabbit could well be a 10 year + commitment. How on earth are your parents going to feel about more space being given over to animals? Have you joined the BRC yet? As you need to be a member to show. Are you going to get a buck or a doe as one gender is preferrable to the other in showing.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> *Is that right? That is rather a design flaw on nature's part, isn't it? * That is so upsetting.
> 
> I just wanted to say that my Ferdie has a tail which does not conform to breed standards. It curls up like a Tibetan Mastiff's, not straight out like a newfie's is supposed to. I don't want to nag, Wobbles, you will get enough of that, but I love him anyway and even if I had bought him to show, it wouldn't matter to me that his tail isn't right.
> 
> I struggle to understand the way you don't seem to have that bond with your smaller animals that most people on here do. Your dog, yes, but not the others.


I'm afraid it is right, I wouldn't class it as a design flaw on natures part at all, I would class it as humans messing with things they don't understand due to the "It MUST look like this" attitude :frown5:

Obviously there will be healthy show quality nethies, but as they are a small breed they have been abused over the years


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't know anything about rabbits but surely the most important thing is that they are healthy not if they look exactly like the ones at shows or whatever 

Looks being the most important aspect seems to be becoming a common thing with you Wobbles, or is it just me?


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

**I think Iv decided that I need show quality animals in my life...the ones iv got are okay but far from show standard so something needs to be done!

I will need to replace the following-

3 out of the 4 dogs , not show standard at all iv realised and am now looking at them in a different light....

Probably all my rabbits....their ears are not right & stu has a weird beard.

most of the guineas....their hair doesn't always sit properly for show standard teddies

and my funny Tabby ham...shes just weird and crazy 



Help please?


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

kate_7590 said:


> **I think Iv decided that I need show quality animals in my life...the ones iv got are okay but far from show standard so something needs to be done!
> 
> I will need to replace the following-
> 
> ...


Actually i am beginning to think my husband isn't up to standard.....grey thinning hair, bandy legs, terrible flatulence.....can someone take him off my hands then I can get a new one??


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

kate_7590 said:


> **I think Iv decided that I need show quality animals in my life...the ones iv got are okay but far from show standard so something needs to be done!
> 
> I will need to replace the following-
> 
> ...


im quite sure wobbles would take the dogs off your hands, after all, they are collies, maybe she would swap you for the poor old poodle :wink:


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> I don't know anything about rabbits but surely the most important thing is that they are healthy not if they look exactly like the ones at shows or whatever
> 
> Looks being the most important aspect seems to be becoming a common thing with you Wobbles, or is it just me?


What does it matter how they look.i love mine no matter what


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

Lil Miss said:


> im quite sure wobbles would take the dogs off your hands, after all, they are collies, maybe she would swap you for the poor old poodle :wink:


I doubt she would though, they havent got 'perfect collie markings'....Ill just have to think of another way of getting my 'proper collies', these just will not do!


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

kate_7590 said:


> I doubt she would though, they havent got 'perfect collie markings'....Ill just have to think of another way of getting my 'proper collies', these just will not do!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

You know, I sometimes wonder whether Wobbles posts these sort of questions just to wind everybody up. Her threads always seem to get everybody into a tizwaz, and the longer they go on, the more worked up people get.

I think she is a lot cleverer than she is given credit for and just plans what she will do to cause ructions today.

I hope so, anyway.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

Ok, just for fun 









Show standard nethie dwarf....



One of my non showable nethies....

Well I know which I would prefer for health that's for sure.....


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Funky said:


> What does it matter how they look.i love mine no matter what


That's my point 

I think you misread my post!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> You know, I sometimes wonder whether Wobbles posts these sort of questions just to wind everybody up. Her threads always seem to get everybody into a tizwaz, and the longer they go on, the more worked up people get.
> 
> I think she is a lot cleverer than she is given credit for and just plans what she will do to cause ructions today.
> 
> I hope so, anyway.


I agree 100%


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> That's my point
> 
> I think you misread my post!


I just agreed with you 100%-obviously didn sound that way hahahahha

I love all bunnies so it doesn't matter how they look i wish all then have good homes and great "parents"-thats regarding b3rnie post


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> That's my point
> 
> I think you misread my post!





B3rnie said:


> Ok, just for fun
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love both of them...all buns are cute and deserves great owners doesn't matter if they proper breed or not!
Mine Netherlands look nowhere near proper breed but they are my babies


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

All I know is, whether it be horses, dogs, cats or bunny rabbits, showing anything is bloody hard work. I certainly am too lazy to do it, and I don't mind admitting it.

Walking my baby bears every morning is quite enough work for me, thanks a lot.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Funky said:


> I just agreed with you 100%-obviously didn sound that way hahahahha
> 
> I love all bunnies so it doesn't matter how they look i wish all then have good homes and great "parents"-thats regarding b3rnie post


Sorry, I thought you meant that I thought looks were important 

The joys of PF


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Wow, I find it really ironic that you lot keep banging on about me being immature, yet you all go on like playground bullies, ratting on people, poking fun at them because their not how you like, and ganging up on them. I really can't understand why the mods allow it. 

I never said there was anything wrong with my Nethies at all. I asked where I could get a proper show one from, because mine don't confirm to standard and are therefore un showable. Never mentioned there was a problem with mine. This being a pet forum, and the rabbit section, I thought it was a good place to ask, more fool me. I like showing, I showed my dog when he was younger. I never said there was anything wrong with non show animals either, Meg's not KC showable as she has no papers, but I don't care one bit. Barney's not KC showable either, he's the wrong size, shape, coat, movement, look and just about everything else, but I don't care about that either, I never got him to show. I did hope to be able to show the buns if I chose to, but it hasn't worked out, and all I've done is ask where I could get a proper show type one from next time. Anyone'd think I'd dumped them by the river and gone out for a replacement the way some are going on.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Take a deep breath.....where exactly do you see yourself showing them & at which shows?


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Know nothing about showing wabbits - know about showing horses, OMG its hard work x

My Highland is 99.9% perfect for showing, but due to a 5p sized fatty lump on his near fore knee would never pass muster for in hand M+M, however he does very well in ridden classes, where he is always placed, we just do local level x

Lucy and Glen 1st in Family Pony



Charlie and Glen in Working Hunter Pony they came 2nd in this class x



I would never change him in all the world, nor would I replace him, we make the best of what we have, and show at the level we can, My good friends Andy and Sue Atherton show Highlands at a much higher level, and have spent years in breeding their own line to show, culminating with winning Hoys Supreme M+M champion (2012) (they have given me permission to share this photo)

His gorgeousness Stirlingdene x 


the difference with the levels is immense - to be fair if you want to show the only way you can achieve a breed standard good enough to show is invest time and money into breeding your own!! are you really prepared to do that?


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Yup, rabbit showing is the same, the day before you need to prepare your rabbits, groom them etc. Be up at the crack of dawn on the day to box them up (have you got a show carrier?) drive probs over an hour to the show if you are central, prepare your rabbits again, bench them, sign in with your BRC details, then sit arounf & not go near them for what can be 7 hours until the BIS is judged. Plus no breeder is going to let a kit go to anyone else who shows unless it is of a standard that is not going to win at a show, that would be like shooting yourself in the foot. So to get your BIS rabbit you would probably have to have a decent quality buck & doe and bang out litter after litter until that elusive BIS came along. It can take people years to establish a good winning line. 
So once you have got your BRC membership, your show carrier, your grooming equipment, your list of shows planned, your transport organised, your 6x2ft hutch & 6x4ft run organised then ask me the question again & i would happy to point you in the right direction.
:smilewinkgrin:


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Knowing how bunnies can be easily stressed out I would never would like to put then for showing.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

so here would be a start Lopside?

The BRC - Welcome to the Official website of The British Rabbit Council

Breed Standard. - Dee's Netherland Dwarf Rabbits For Show or Pets.

I found these on a very simple google search!! maybe you could have done that Wobbles, you will need to breed your own BIS as previously mentioned no breeder worth their salt is going to give you their potential winner - looks like you are going to have to start your own breeding program to achieve what you want, and then that could take you years x

so factors to consider

Doe
Buck
homes for offspring, unrelated Doe/Buck if breeding through offspring
Suitable homes
feeds for condition and performance
suitable travel pens/cages
Travel costs
Overnight stay
coat condition products

and I have no idea with rabbits yet I can get that far with my list - feel free to add those in the know!!

I imagine to get anywhere , you will need to start at local level to get showing points to progress to county and then national? (not sure if I am right here) thats alot of traveling and early starts and preparation (cant take your dog along am sure of that)

Rabbit Blogs wow just read some of this - you will need serious dedication, finance and time good luck!!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Definitely cannot take your dog to a show, and given that most of them are in the summer you cannot leave your dog in a car. First step is to fork out and join the BRC. Then go to a few shows. Meet some people. See whose lines are winning and why. Read up on the breed standard. Learn it off by heart. See if you can befriend someone who will show you how to groom it. Then you have to learn how to teach your rabbit to pose and sit on the table. Hey r....jods, sounds like you have been researching it.....isn't the internet a wonderful place for sourcing information? What did we ever do without it?


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Lopside said:


> Definitely cannot take your dog to a show, and given that most of them are in the summer you cannot leave your dog in a car. First step is to fork out and join the BRC. Then go to a few shows. Meet some people. See whose lines are winning and why. Read up on the breed standard. Learn it off by heart. See if you can befriend someone who will show you how to groom it. Then you have to learn how to teach your rabbit to pose and sit on the table. *Hey r....jods, sounds like you have been researching it.....isn't the internet a wonderful place for sourcing information? What did we ever do without it?*


sad but true - first thing I do when I need to know something - as usually someone has already asked the questions! so the answers already exist x

In relation to the OP's question "Where could I get a proper nethie dwarf?" the answer surely is to spend years building your own line and breed your own x

so what are the start up costs for a rabbit stud? do you have breeding prefixes like horses and dogs? is there a line of nethies thats particularly good predominant/winning ?

and then to add that which I know is a couple of members on here's favourite subject but colour genetics x


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Some colours are more popular than others on the show table, yes. And there are certain breeders whose kits are more "desirable" if you want to win. I personally get a bit riled by the term "proper" nethie, cos each time i read it i feel it denigrates the nethies that are not up to a man made show standard. And it gets my back up. But hey, I value all my pets the same, from my giant club footed Syrian to my rabbits to my collie whose sister went Best Puppy Bitch at Crufts.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

so how much to set up a breeding stud to produce show bunnies?


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

So, let me get this straight, you want a nethie- a 'proper' nethie - that you can show.

That's the only reason?

And you'd be happy to condemn said 'proper nethie' to a solitary life, with hormones surging through its system- you'd be risking the health issues associated with not neutering (and as Bernie says, all the teeth problems they're prone to, the more they are bred to look like 'proper nethies').

Your selfishness just gets more and more despicable.

I dread to think what you think of my Gaga, who is probably one of the least showable rabbits around, with her wonderful (oh, I mean, awfully disproportional and 'improper') ears:


Happy Bunny by spookybabbits, on Flickr

No, she's not show standard but she is beautiful. All rabbits are. Just wish you could see it...


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

AWWW pwetty runny babbit x



JordanRose said:


> Happy Bunny by spookybabbits, on Flickr
> 
> No, she's not show standard but she is beautiful. All rabbits are. Just wish you could see it...


but genuinely I am curious how much £ are entailed in setting up a bunny stud? as its something I have never really thought about (along the lines of showing) and have googled yet not much comes up on purchasing and costs of Does - Bucks!!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

hmmmm, lets see, you would need a shed, then you would need accomodation for a buck and doe, then accomodation for the kits when you split them, so maybe 3 hutches minimum, 6x2ft, so that would be about £300 plus a shed. But obviously you arent' going to be so lucky as to get the BIS kit in the first litter etc, so whilst you are running the kits on to get to the age then can show, maybe 2 or three (so thats another couple of hutches) you would need to breed another litter, so more hucthes and a mahoosive shed. Then theres your vet bills if things go wrong. Then you fork out to join the brc & buy your rings & register your stud name. Then when the buns are old enough you can go to your first show, entrance fees etc, so it isn't something to start into lightly.
And Jordanrose, your gaga is one of the most beautiful buns i have ever seen :001_tt1:

Oh and i reckon £30-40 each for a decent starter doe/buck. So possibly an initial spend of £600 depending on number of hutches and size of shed?


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Lopside said:


> hmmmm, lets see, you would need a shed, then you would need accomodation for a buck and doe, then accomodation for the kits when you split them, so maybe 3 hutches minimum, 6x2ft, so that would be about £300 plus a shed. But obviously you arent' going to be so lucky as to get the BIS kit in the first litter etc, so whilst you are running the kits on to get to the age then can show, maybe 2 or three (so thats another couple of hutches) you would need to breed another litter, so more hucthes and a mahoosive shed. Then theres your vet bills if things go wrong. Then you fork out to join the brc & buy your rings & register your stud name. Then when the buns are old enough you can go to your first show, entrance fees etc, so it isn't something to start into lightly.
> And Jordanrose, your gaga is one of the most beautiful buns i have ever seen :001_tt1:


right so thats £1000 in your first year but no return as such as you need to keep the kits turning over PHEW stick to horses me thinks x


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> but genuinely I am curious how much £ are entailed in setting up a bunny stud? as its something I have never really thought about (along the lines of showing) and have googled yet not much comes up on purchasing and costs of Does - Bucks!!


How long is a piece of string really :huh:
The biggest cost to set up will be the suitable enclosures, you will need a minimum of 5 hutches not including enclosures that will be needed for babies that you run on. Many breeders will just get breeding stacks, but if you want to be an ethical breeder you will need suitable sized enclosures.

Once you have the enclosures you can then look at sourcing your breeding stock, show rabbits cost no more than pet rabbits (some will have a large price tag but that is normally for rabbits that have proved themselves) BUT to get suitable show stock to start with (it's easier to keep a good line than it is to try to build a good line from scratch, the OP isn't even close to having the knowledge needed to start a line from scratch) you need to spend time with the breeders to convince them you can be trusted with their prized show "stock". Some breeders have been working for many years to perfect their line, so won't even consider selling to any tom, dick or harry...

The money you need to spend to set up a stud doesn't even come close to the amount of time you need to dedicate.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> How long is a piece of string really :huh:
> The biggest cost to set up will be the suitable enclosures, you will need a minimum of 5 hutches not including enclosures that will be needed for babies that you run on. Many breeders will just get breeding stacks, but if you want to be an ethical breeder you will need suitable sized enclosures.
> 
> Once you have the enclosures you can then look at sourcing your breeding stock, show rabbits cost no more than pet rabbits (some will have a large price tag but that is normally for rabbits that have proved themselves) BUT to get suitable show stock to start with (it's easier to keep a good line than it is to try to build a good line from scratch, the OP isn't even close to having the knowledge needed to start a line from scratch) you need to spend time with the breeders to convince them you can be trusted with their prized show "stock". Some breeders have been working for many years to perfect their line, so won't even consider selling to any tom, dick or harry...
> ...


right so this is what the OP would need to do to get what she wants?


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> right so this is what the OP would need to do to get what she wants?


To get your own line for showing, yup.
If the OP wants to only do local pet shows then the two she has will be suitable, to get a BRC showable rabbit without breeding them she would need to become a member of the BRC and then find another BRC registered show breeder who will hopefully sell a ringed show prospect...but then as I think has been mentioned, just because they are a show prospect doesn't mean that will actually turn out to do well in shows.

I've said this before to Wobbles actually but it is relevant here


> At the end of the day the top winning doe isn't guaranteed to produce top winning kits.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Best advice for Wobbles is to get on the BRC website, find a list of shows, enter one of hers as a pet class, prep her etc and take her along & see if she enjoys it & is prepared to invest the money & time into the hobby. And to be frank you stand more chance of winning a rosette in a pet class than a netherland dwarf shower....it's a popular breed and very competitive. Some studs have 30-40 rabbits & generations of pedigree behind them. i did alright at shows cos I had a superb doe as a mum & there wasn't ever much competition as frenchies weren't that popular. i wouldn't have had a cat in hells chance in a bigger show against the long standing breeders.
:wink:


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Woah, I don't know whether people are taking the p or not, I don't want to breed! Ain't got space or time for that, I never mentioned breeding! I wanted to know how I could get one show quality nethie. Not breed a whole line, just get one that could be entered in shows. And I never said owt about BIS either, not bothered about that, I'd want to show purely for the fun and enjoyment of doing so, its not about winning to me. Yes the rabbit would probs cost about £35, my current two did, but not hundreds for cages, sheds, pens and boxes!


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> Woah, I don't know whether people are taking the p or not, I don't want to breed! Ain't got space or time for that, I never mentioned breeding! I wanted to know how I could get one show quality nethie. Not breed a whole line, just get one that could be entered in shows. *And I never said owt about BIS either, not bothered about that, I'd want to show purely for the fun and enjoyment of doing so, its not about winning to me*. Yes the rabbit would probs cost about £35, my current two did, but not hundreds for cages, sheds, pens and boxes!


if you're not bothered about winning why not just enter some fun shows with the buns you've got?

don't you think its cruel to keep a rabbit alone and un neutered just so you can show it?


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Hands up I didn't want a rabbit, ended up with Barney who out grew his welcome very quickly with my step-daughter.

He could be a wild rabbit for all I know, but he has qualities I wouldn't swap for the world. Members suggested he needed a friend, I got him one, I didn't even know what breed I'd picked up apparently she's a colour mismatch dwarf lop. I don't really mind what breed they are I would just like them to be friends when the time comes.

I have to admit, wild or classy I wouldn't part with either of them no matter what, nor would I get anymore - no need.

A rabbit is a rabbit eats hay and poos pellet balls, they are as friendly as you give them time for.


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

If you only want to enter shows for fun you can just as easily show with the rabbits you already have, if winning shows doesn't mean anything to you why are you on about getting 'show quality' rabbit and keeping it entire and destined to live a life alone?


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Wobbles said:


> Woah, I don't know whether people are taking the p or not, I don't want to breed! Ain't got space or time for that, I never mentioned breeding! I wanted to know how I could get one show quality nethie. Not breed a whole line, just get one that could be entered in shows. And I never said owt about BIS either, not bothered about that, I'd want to show purely for the fun and enjoyment of doing so, its not about winning to me. Yes the rabbit would probs cost about £35, my current two did, but not hundreds for cages, sheds, pens and boxes!


I would expect to pay more than £35 for a show strain rabbit, I would imagine you can double that, I could be wrong of course.


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## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> *Woah, I don't know whether people are taking the p or not,* I don't want to breed! Ain't got space or time for that, I never mentioned breeding! I wanted to know how I could get one show quality nethie. Not breed a whole line, just get one that could be entered in shows. And I never said owt about BIS either, not bothered about that, I'd want to show purely for the fun and enjoyment of doing so, its not about winning to me. Yes the rabbit would probs cost about £35, my current two did, but not hundreds for cages, sheds, pens and boxes!


no but in answer to your question to get one of breed standard to show you will have to breed your own, my questioning has surely answered your threads question - as I say my knowledge of Rabbits is limited but I do have close links to the Highland pony showing/breeding scene, others did ask you at what level, as I also explained with the pony's mine is good enough to show and win at local level, as your rabbits should be NO breeder is going to sell you a show standard breed, Andy and Sue most certainly would not have sold me Stirlingdene to show, as they wanted that for themselves!!

of course if its too much work, and you cant be faffed maybe make do with what you have, cant have your cake and eat it I'm afraid x


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> Woah, I don't know whether people are taking the p or not, I don't want to breed! Ain't got space or time for that, I never mentioned breeding! I wanted to know how I could get one show quality nethie. Not breed a whole line, just get one that could be entered in shows. And I never said owt about BIS either, not bothered about that, *I'd want to show purely for the fun and enjoyment of doing so,* its not about winning to me. Yes the rabbit would probs cost about £35, my current two did, but not hundreds for cages, sheds, pens and boxes!


In that case there is nothing wrong with the two you have.
And no we weren't taking the p, we were discussing how you would go about sourcing a show quality rabbit.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> In that case there is nothing wrong with the two you have.
> And no we weren't taking the p, we were discussing how you would go about sourcing a show quality rabbit.


I mean the show types where they put them in little boxes, in a row on a table, by breed or colour. So the only way to get a show quality rabbit is to breed one myself?:huh: That seems a tad extreme, I've got show quality/bred hamsters, but I didn't breed those, why are rabbits different?


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> I mean the show types where they put them in little boxes, in a row on a table, by breed or colour. So the only way to get a show quality rabbit is to breed one myself?:huh: That seems a tad extreme, I've got show quality/bred hamsters, but I didn't breed those, why are rabbits different?


I think you need to re-read the thread, there are two ways you can get a BRC show rabbit, both are mentioned.

If you want to show for the fun of it then pet shows are what you are looking for, which your two will be suitable for. 
BRC rabbit shows aren't as easy as looking at free adds and then showing up, you need to have a huge amount of knowledge about the breed standard, knowledge you won't get unless you attend many, many shows asking thousands of questions.
Just because a member of your family purchased a rabbit that looks like a "proper" nethie to you doesn't mean it will come even close to the actual breed standard.

Rabbit shows and hamster shows are different.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> I mean the show types where they put them in little boxes, in a row on a table, by breed or colour. So the only way to get a show quality rabbit is to breed one myself?:huh: That seems a tad extreme, I've got show quality/bred hamsters, but I didn't breed those, why are rabbits different?


And THAT my friend is why you have no idea what you are talking about. You don't pick up a rabbit, put it in a little box, in a row on a table. I suggest you actually go to a few shows first, maybe ask to steward a bit, and learn. 
Are the two rabbits you have handleable? Can they sit posed on a table? Will they lay on their backs whilst someone examines them? 
And to repeat, which would be your nearest show? Have you researched that yet? To see if its feasible?


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I have re-read this thread and Wobbles I was in your position but with cats. I took in a BSH about 30 years ago, had cats (moggies) ever since. I got the two siblings I own today 5 years ago and decided I wanted a (proper) show standard cat.

I didn't get one, I got a proper pedigree Ragdoll (high white) not desireable for showing. However the GCCF had started a section for pedigree pets (for cats such as Bellini with faults for the want of a better term) and household pets for moggies. I took Bellini and Sooty, I was helped by forum members and Bellini's breeder. I came away with 7 rosettes. Sooty got the equivalent of the BOB called the BOC. Both got the equivalent of the CC called the MC and both were placed in two of their side sections/classes. 

It was a buzz lots of preparation, lots to understand about showing. Unfortunately Sooty had to have major surgery and whilst the rules may allow me to show him, I wouldn't because to me that is not what showing is about.

If you want to show for the sheer enjoyment and buzz I suggest you prepare the buns you have and see if you really do have a flare for shows.

You might wonder why when Bellini's breeder offered to arrange a mating for me to have the colour I wanted and choose to the best of the breeders ability, a good quality show kitten/cat. I thought about it very seriously, and these were my concerns: -

1. What happens to the rest of the litter, I was looking at Bellini, falling in love with him.

2. What if the show kitten/cat doesn't travel well. imo it is wrong to cause unnecessary stress to an animal.

3. What if she didn't take to shows, some cats get stressed out being confined in, as you say boxes, some will hide under their blanket.

4. What if she turns out not to be placid and hates being touched by strangers.

As you can read from my post I wanted a girl for the dynamics of our group. For us getting Bellini was the best choice I could have made, because he settled in moreorless straightaway and I quenshed my desire to show (without having a proper show standard cat )

I hope my thread has put things in perspective, that it isn't always about what we want its about the animals and what is right for them.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2013)

sskmick said:


> I hope my thread has put things in perspective, *that it isn't always about what we want its about the animals and what is right for them*.


If only everyone thought like this huh :smilewinkgrin:


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

wobbles, if you only want to show for fun then show the 2 you have.

if you want to show for real.... just a couple of points you need to take in

1. most rabbits only have a very short show life, they only do well for a few months to a year max really, some really high quality rabbits manage to carry on winning for 2 years, unless you breed yourself you will not get a rabbit of that quality, thats a 10+ year commitment for a year of showing..... what will you do with the rabbit once its no longer able to be shown if you only want it to show? will you keep it intact and on its own for the rest of its life? that would be incredably cruel, it would need neutering, you then need to get it a friend

2. just the pressence of an intact rabbit in the vicinity of your girls could upset their bond, what would you do then?

3. the only way you will get a GOOD showable rabbit is to breed yourself, breeders do NOT sell their show stock as a rule, they run them on their selves and breed and show them their selves, they sell on their second bests for lack of any other words. even then, other KNOWN breeders get first dibs on any rabbits the initial breeder doesnt want to work with them selves, so the ones that end up going to homes such as yourself, are often 3rd/4th best and do not stand a cat in hells chance of even placing in most shows. if you want to be in with a chance of 2nd bests, you need to make yourself active and known on the breeding/show scene, this means joining the BRC (£20 a year plus an initial £5 set up fee) and attending shows, talking to breeders, and finding some one local enough to you to mentor you who will eventually feel comfortable enough around you to offer you your own show quality rabbit, or to get you a "2nd" from another breeder.

4. you NEED to be a member of the BRC (£20 a year) to show rabbits in "proper" shows, you also need to register the rabbits in your name.

5. you NEED transport to get to a show, you can not take rabbits to a show on public transport, a show is stressful enough, combine it with public transport and you have a heart attack waiting to happen 

6. there are very few shows in wales


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Wobbles said:


> Wow, I find it really ironic that you lot keep banging on about me being immature, yet you all go on like playground bullies, ratting on people, poking fun at them because their not how you like, and ganging up on them. I really can't understand why the mods allow it.
> 
> I never said there was anything wrong with my Nethies at all. I asked where I could get a proper show one from, because mine don't confirm to standard and are therefore un showable. Never mentioned there was a problem with mine. This being a pet forum, and the rabbit section, I thought it was a good place to ask, more fool me. I like showing, I showed my dog when he was younger. I never said there was anything wrong with non show animals either, Meg's not KC showable as she has no papers, but I don't care one bit. Barney's not KC showable either, he's the wrong size, shape, coat, movement, look and just about everything else, but I don't care about that either, I never got him to show. I did hope to be able to show the buns if I chose to, but it hasn't worked out, and all I've done is ask where I could get a proper show type one from next time. Anyone'd think I'd dumped them by the river and gone out for a replacement the way some are going on.





Funky said:


> Knowing how bunnies can be easily stressed out I would never would like to put then for showing.


I've been to a show held by my local rabbit & cavy club, just out of curiosity, along with MrRustyRead from on here.
I was frankly disgusted with it, rows of rabbits stacked in tiny boxes or the small carriers that you can get in [email protected] that are used for hamsters etc.
There was literally maybe an inch between the sides of the carriers & the rabbit inside. 
Screaming children were running up & down the village hall between these tiny prisons & the rabbits were left there unattended while the attendees (who all looked like ********) stood around casually drinking tea & chatting.
Some of these brats were shouting into the carriers at the animals inside.
The only break in the monotony for the poor rabbits was to be brought out & roughly handled by a surly faced judge. 
All the rabbits I saw displayed signs of fear. 
I also saw one man use a highly inappropriate method to pick a rabbit up to put it on the show bench.
If this is reflective of local shows across the country then as far as I'm concerned it can go the same way as bear baiting.
Needless to say we didn't stay long.
I am not against conformation showing at all, but some species should be excluded as they simply don't enjoy it, rabbits being one of them.


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## beckimoorcroft (Jul 31, 2012)

basically you wont be able to buy a good quality show netherland, show rabbits in some breeds yes (i often sell show potential buns in my smoke pearls because around half of the babies they produce are up to show standard) with nethies its much less, in 8 litters i had one reasonable show doe when i bred nethies, they have very small litters and numerous birthing problems / defects (why i gave them up it was a loosing battle trying to fix that  ) so the number of quality ones that come out are slim, with rabbits people sell 'breeding stock' so you can breed your own show rabbits, the show ones are what you have invested all your time and money in to get, youre not going to part with them easily.

There are some very good breeders of show nethies (in terms of wins on rabbits not commenting on the ethical side of keeping them), but most keep 300+ rabbits, a show quality buck from one particular breeder was auctioned at a top show a couple of years ago and went for £320.

Good rabbit breeders dont courier, we dont need to, our waiting lists are long enough and people who are genuinly interested in them travel to see the rabbits, their relatives and set up, i wouldnt dream of having a potential show/breeding rabbit couriered to me without seeing where it was born and as many of its relatives as i could.

I keep a very small sutd (i have 20 rabbits and 18 hutches... most show breeders average around 80-100 rabbits), i do rather well in my breed, we regularly place in the fur challenges, win best of breeds at our top championship shows (crufts equivilent) and have had a best in show in a stock show. Its been a long hard road and most people told me i wouldnt be able to do it with so few rabbits, i dont always have something in show condition, but i prefer to keep them the way i do. But i could happily answer any questions on set up costs/time, but you'd have to probably quadrouple it to get the average stud price


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

beckimoorcroft said:


> basically you wont be able to buy a good quality show netherland, show rabbits in some breeds yes (i often sell show potential buns in my smoke pearls because around half of the babies they produce are up to show standard) with nethies its much less, in 8 litters i had one reasonable show doe when i bred nethies, they have very small litters and numerous birthing problems / defects (why i gave them up it was a loosing battle trying to fix that  ) so the number of quality ones that come out are slim, with rabbits people sell 'breeding stock' so you can breed your own show rabbits, the show ones are what you have invested all your time and money in to get, youre not going to part with them easily.
> 
> There are some very good breeders of show nethies (in terms of wins on rabbits not commenting on the ethical side of keeping them), but most keep 300+ rabbits, a show quality buck from one particular breeder was auctioned at a top show a couple of years ago and went for £320.
> 
> ...


im shocked that people can keep so many rabbits (100+) how can they have enough space? or are they the sort that keep them in stacked up hutches with no runs ....


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## beckimoorcroft (Jul 31, 2012)

nethies are normally kept in 2X2 for a doe with litter and 16X16 for show bucks and youngsters, some breeders do keep them in larger, but sadly they're not the ones that tend to win. Nethies are highly competative and you need a lot to be able to produce a winner, I think the most i ever achieved was a best of breed at a local show which was a damn good achievement considering i only had 4


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

beckimoorcroft said:


> nethies are normally kept in 2X2 for a doe with litter and 16X16 for show bucks and youngsters, some breeders do keep them in larger, but sadly they're not the ones that tend to win. Nethies are highly competative and you need a lot to be able to produce a winner, I think the most i ever achieved was a best of breed at a local show which was a damn good achievement considering i only had 4


2X2  that's really small isn't it why are the does and litters kept in such a small hutch? I thought the accepted guidelines these days were at least 
6 x 2 hutch with a 6 x 4 run or something like that?


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## beckimoorcroft (Jul 31, 2012)

its normal in some circles, they're not 'pets' the guidelines at present are only reccomended and only apply to pet rabbits


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

beckimoorcroft said:


> its normal in some circles, they're not 'pets' the guidelines at present are only reccomended and only apply to pet rabbits


Omg that's depressing...I cannot even read about things like that!!!


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

beckimoorcroft said:


> its normal in some circles, they're not 'pets' the guidelines at present are only reccomended and only apply to pet rabbits


a rabbits is a rabbit whether they are seen as pets or not they have the same basic needs  I cant understand it , basically they just like look of the rabbit while its sitting still and not doing anything  ut:


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Close this, I ain't interested.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Some of the posts in this thread I would classify as bullying 

Its one thing to try and steer a member the right way ... its quite another to make derogatory posts aimed at ridiculing a member , and thats what im seeing here

I understand fully how frustrated and angry some members are towards her ... I myself have had to bite my tongue and walk away without saying anything at all multiple times in the past as I believe anything I had to say would just be ignored by her anyway .... but making fun of or having a laugh at someone elses expense is most definately not a good thing and never will be , whether that person deserves it or not


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