# I am helping bond 4 rabbits...



## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

on the 16th December 

I have a customer who has 4 single rabbits. 2 boys and 2 girls, all done. The boys live seperately upstairs (free range half a day each) and the girls live seperately downstairs (free range half a day each)
I stayed with them for a week while they were on holiday and there is no aggressive, dominant behaviour between the ones in the same room at all when the other one is out, so I am hoping it will stay that way!

We are going full on crazy and bonding the 4 singles in one go rather than into 2 pairs and then a group  One of the rabbits has gut stasis about once a month anyway and with any extra stress, so I expect to have problems with him but they have metacam, metaclopromide and protexin in anyway, and I will get them to get some "treat" foods for him to keep him going 

Its taken her about a month to pluck up the courage to ask me to help her as she is worried about it, bless her.

I am going to stay with her on the Saturday all day and then I will be at the other end of the phone on Sunday. Hopefully it will be quick as she is back at work Monday - they pop home during the day. 

If it hasn't settled by then we may need to wait until the new year when she can have a couple of more days off, I have told her that I normally set aside 4 days for mine 

So fingers crossed everyone that Funky, Stuart, Kimi and Ginny are a happy group before christmas 

*Heidi*


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2012)

hazyreality said:


> *We are going full on crazy and bonding the 4 singles in one go rather than into 2 pairs and then a group*
> 
> *Heidi*


Best way IMO 

Good luck, sending bonding vibes when the time comes


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> Best way IMO
> 
> Good luck, sending bonding vibes when the time comes


Yeh, in mine too but she thinks I am CRAZY! 

No, I'm not crazy - "hello little pink elephant floating accross the room....":sosp: what do you mean no-one else can see it?


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Hmmm not sure if you do have an amazing job anymore this would be bloody stressful, will be so worth it to see them all together though

Sounds like shes has a good vet and is pretty clued up too. 

Hope it all goes well


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2012)

hazyreality said:


> Yeh, in mine too but she thinks I am CRAZY!
> 
> No, I'm not crazy - "hello little pink elephant floating accross the room....":sosp: what do you mean no-one else can see it?


Errr I see it too :001_unsure:
Hmmm :dita:


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

emzybabe said:


> Hmmm not sure if you do have an amazing job anymore this would be bloody stressful, will be so worth it to see them all together though
> 
> Sounds like shes has a good vet and is pretty clued up too.
> 
> Hope it all goes well


Yeh, she has fallen into the "love them too much" trap a little and is a bit too protective  She unfortunately got lulled into the "excel fibre fib" and had 2 with mucky bums so I gave her some A&P to try and it cleared up no problems  She now has them on A&P 
She is very clued up when it comes to gut stasis though, thanks to Funky, they were close to spending £500 a month at one point on him.

*Heidi*


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## jaxb05 (Apr 12, 2009)

Hoping that the bonding goes well x


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

Good Luck


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Well good luck with that. you are a braver person than I !!


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## Louiseandfriends (Aug 21, 2011)

Sounds like a good challenge. Good luck!  xx


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Waves at elephant!! Yooo hoooooo!


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

wrooooonnngggg.... if your helping her on the saturday your helping her on the 15th not the 16th. i only know this because the 16th is my birthday and its a sunday this year hahahaha


had to be said -crawls back under rock-

on a serious note though, good luck with the bonding, i too would go for the bonding them all together in one go method


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Good luck, keep us posted when you do it. I too was nervous about mine fighting/getting stressed but am so glad I got my 3 altogether. Now it's so cold is lovely to see them all snuggling up together. Thanks again for all the great advice.
Tao


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Lil Miss said:


> wrooooonnngggg.... if your helping her on the saturday your helping her on the 15th not the 16th. i only know this because the 16th is my birthday and its a sunday this year hahahaha
> 
> had to be said -crawls back under rock-
> 
> on a serious note though, good luck with the bonding, i too would go for the bonding them all together in one go method


Lol, I originally text her Sat 11th then had to text again saying whoops no its the 15th. Apparently I cant get my dates work.for December lol


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

Hope it works!

I wish you could come and do my bunch


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

happysaz133 said:


> Hope it works!
> 
> I wish you could come and do my bunch


I would do if you didn't live at the other end of the country 

*Heidi*


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

I have this vision of you waking up at her house on Christmas day lol


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Tao2 said:


> Good luck, keep us posted when you do it. I too was nervous about mine fighting/getting stressed but am so glad I got my 3 altogether. Now it's so cold is lovely to see them all snuggling up together. Thanks again for all the great advice.
> Tao


I can update...I have decided to bond Kimi and Ginny this weekend as Heidi has texted me to say she is free. Girls than will be bonded with two new rabbits.Funky and Stuart will be bonded together and they will stay upstairs they won't be joining the group.

Girls will be bonded with two bunnies I am getting next week from RSPCAtwo English rabbits...

I am just sitting and keeping eye on my girls and My Kimi is bit naughty girl ...she starts all fights...but is not that bad. I am going to have folded bed tonight in my utility and will sleep with them i am well knows as a rabbit freak...i should have put that as my nick nameNext weekend the same story as I am going to pick up two boys and bond the group. Oscar and Billy (I think I will change Billy name to something else not sure yet what) are two brothers who have been neutered and they are leaving together so hopefully process of bonding with my two girls will be easier.

Funky and Stuart have had their first bonding session last night and today morning and they have behaved really well I thought.

I have seen Heidi's little gang and first they are so adorable. I love Netherlands and hers are really really cute as is Rascal and others. I wish my would be so happy around each other hopefully they will.rascal and kimba are super cute

I know lots of people would say it doesn't matter size of bunnies to bond them but my little Funky went through so much and I don't want to put him on extra stress. He lives with Stuart in one room for last 4 years and finally I am coming to decision that this two need to become friends Funky is the boss of the house...we just earn money hahahahha....plus he is same size as Stuart so it is easier for me to bond them...only because I worry that if Kimi goes for them she might do lots of damage to them. Ginny is very relaxed bunny she probably could be bonded with any rabbits as she just cannot be bothered....only things which might trigger her is her food...


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Well hello Funky, nice to see you on here Aga 

I was just coming on here to give an update! Maybe the guys here will be able to help you pick a new name for Billy aswell.

Let me know how its going tomorrow, I am just at the end of a phone x

*Heidi*


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Hello and welcome Funky - I hope it all goes well!


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Thank you for welcoming me at forum
Well Kimi is not giving up and she is keep going for Ginny...I slept with them last night in utility room and tonight I think I will be doing the same...on the other hand I thought I might leave them tonight alone and see what is going on as tomorrow they need to stay on their own...omg I don't know if I can do that...I am really scared that they hurt each other...we broke the rule of small space and extended space and it seems better but still Kimi is bossing Ginny around...poor bunny...they knocked out water bowl and covered themselves with it...so two wet bunnies
Funky unfortunately is very upset obviously after us trying to bond him with Stuart so he is grinding his teeth...metacam and metaclopromide have to be given...his picking up his hay but not interested in food...his faeses are back to normal...if he won't pick up until morning he will be going to vet...and I promised him no more bonding...Stuart was licking him through cage few minutes ago...this is what he likes...on his own and Stuart as his groomer...only through cage...I am not going to stress him as I remember sad times when we almost lost him and I cannot do that to him or me...I wanted him to have friend but he obviously is happy how he is...we used to had to take him to vet so often sometimes few times a week....and for a long time...3months he has not been there and he was eating fine, didn't need his medication and me being stupid made him feel like this:001_unsure: that was mistake...he bonded with us as Stuart did and that's how it needs to be...

Going back to girls ...do you have any advice what to do tomorrow as they need to stay without our supervision...and I am really scared


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Sorry, seeing as your post was yesterday, this might be too late...but here goes anyway...I've don't have much experience of bonding but I do recognise the stress you're feeling!! I was worried sick about ours when they were going through it. Especially leaving them alone. I have to confess that when I did have to go out in the first few days, I separated them but that was possibly completely the wrong thing to do. When I got more confident, I put a webcam on them so I could check on them whilst I was away(friends/relatives/colleagues all know I am mad anyway so spying on my rabbits did not surprise anyone). Could you do that for peace of mind?


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2012)

Wow, poor you.
If you're having to resort to pain relief and gut stim during bonding then I would also give up. He might very well bond with another rabbit but it doesn't sound like it will work with the rabbits you are trying.

As for the girls if you have to leave them then i would split, things can get very nasty during bonding if things are left to escalate.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

I don't know if this bonding make sense...Ginny is so chilled out relaxed rabbitt and Kimi is just terrorising her. Ginny has had bit of blood under her eye yesterday evening, today she has bit of blood on her ear....I feel awful...

I don't know if I should separate them and try to bond each of them with two boys I am getting from rspca or just bond them with Ginny if Kimi will be terrorising them as we'll.

Shall I keep going with girls or shall I separate them now?Ginny doesn't look scared but obviously Kimi's claw or teeth got ginnys ear and eye...I feel it doesn't make sense any more as I want them to be happy not stressed and hurt...I didn't expect this would be so awful way to make my bunnies friends.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

I never experiment anything on my rabbits but did anybody hear about this or used it

Serene-Um Rabbit Drops by Mark and Chappell - Pets at Home

Maybe this would help Kimi to calm down?


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2012)

Funky said:


> I never experiment anything on my rabbits but did anybody hear about this or used it
> 
> Serene-Um Rabbit Drops by Mark and Chappell - Pets at Home
> 
> Maybe this would help Kimi to calm down?


I've never used it and I'm not a fan of using chemicals in animals so I won't advise on that.

As there has been blood draw I would split the girls, you can either try again once the fights have been forgotten or you can bond doe/buck pairs.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

I went to shop and then to our vet (i was going anyway to pick up chemo tablets for our dog who has cancer and metaclopromide for Funky) to make sure this thing won't harm them...vet said it is ok to use it...well they are bit calmer I must say.
I see how it goes later on...
Do you know if I can use savlon cream on Ginny ear?we have been told that this was ok to use on Funky wound on his back. I am not sure with Ginny as she might be ale to lick it off from ear.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Miffy went into gut stasis when I bonded her to George she learned to love him slowly but surely and I'm so glad I put us all through it


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

savlon is rabbit safe. I found dry shampooing my guys really helped as they both smelt odd so maybe a bit of smelly savalon will help bonding


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

Kimi was licking ginny yesterday
we have sorted garage as well for our new arrivals as they will have whole downstairs including garage which is now bunny room.i will take some pictures tonight.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi Funky
Great that there is some positive progress!! Fingers crossed it continues!


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2012)

So what happens when the drugs wear off?
Really not a fan of all these gimmicks that [email protected] rolleyes sell, bonding should never need drugs to make them work because the bond will always be fragile....

Sorry really don't agree with this and felt I had to say so. You can't force rabbits to be friends the same way you can't force humans to stay friends


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

I understand what you are saying Bernie but Funky is trying to do the right thing for her rabbits by trying to bond them. When you don't have much experience of bonding it is really difficult to understand how rabbit relationships work and how they are going to pan out in the future (or is that just me??). Having been guided through the process, I am delighted with the results but still don't quite understand why it happened. If you shoved 2 cats that hate each other into a confined space.....well, the results would not be so good....


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2012)

Tao2 said:


> I understand what you are saying Bernie but Funky is trying to do the right thing for her rabbits by trying to bond them. When you don't have much experience of bonding it is really difficult to understand how rabbit relationships work and how they are going to pan out in the future (or is that just me??). Having been guided through the process, I am delighted with the results but still don't quite understand why it happened. If you shoved 2 cats that hate each other into a confined space.....well, the results would not be so good....


I get what you are saying but still don't agree. There has been blood drawn in this bond so it isn't straight forward.

Sorry will never agree with adding drugs to rabbits to get them to bond, it will never last that way believe me. They may be acting fine now but as I said what happens when the drugs wear off? Do you just keep giving the rabbits them just to keep them together?

This bond needs to be started again, sorry but no one will be able to explain why adding drugs to bond is a good idea.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

rabbits can do as much damage to each other as cats, i had to have surgery on my mini lop after my german rabbit literally almost bit her nose clean off, they got to each other through the bars of a run, so werent even in the same enclosure. Rabbits can be evil beasts if the desire takes them, and if i had to use something to relax them to bond them, or they were getting too stressed i would probably give the bonding a break for a while. The bond would be fragile I would have thought and the least little thing could cause them to kick off unless they were truly committed to each other


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Ah gosh, i'm worried now as i was hoping to bond my doe with my other 2 bunnies. I wish i knew someone nearby who could help me out. So worried 1 of them will end up hurt.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Sorry to take over thread Funky but just want to ask a question:

Bernie and Lopside: you both refer to a fragile bond. How can I tell if my rabbits have a strong or a fragile bond? They have been together nearly a month now (a trio) but I am still nervous of a fight breaking out, do I need to be?


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

i would say a fragile bond is one where the least little thing causes them to kick off, other rabbits visually or smells of other rabbits on your clothes, veg, food etc


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Ah gosh, i'm worried now as i was hoping to bond my doe with my other 2 bunnies. I wish i knew someone nearby who could help me out. So worried 1 of them will end up hurt.


Hi DollyGirl, recommend you read the Bonding Advice sticky and this thread:

Help with bonding please!! ( 1 2) 
Tao2 
(sorry don't know how to make it a link, am techno idiot)

which gives advice for bonding 3. Let us know any particular worries, the folks on this forum were so helpful to me!!


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2012)

Lopside said:


> i would say a fragile bond is one where the least little thing causes them to kick off, other rabbits visually or smells of other rabbits on your clothes, veg, food etc


This pretty much. A fragile bond will never be 100% relaxed and you will be able to tell there is tension.

Bonding rabbits is all about matching personalities and if those personalities don't balance out then there will be trouble.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

So (says hopefully), the fact that I haven't seen any evidence of aggression since they have been together should indicate a strong bond :001_huh: ?

Tension? Not sure, I would describe it as an initial lack of confidence in the 2 bucks, who seemed to relax with each other during the first week or so. The doe (who got on with both bucks anyway) didn't seem to bat an eyelid about the whole thing.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2012)

Tao2 said:


> So (says hopefully), the fact that I haven't seen any evidence of aggression since they have been together should indicate a strong bond :001_huh: ?


Without seeing the rabbits interact then I can only guess at that tbh, but if there has been no scraps since being together I would say that the bond isn't fragile


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

OK, thanks for you insight Bernie and Lopside. Maybe it's not the rabbits who need to be more confident about it, it's ME!


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

I am glad there is progress in the girls, I was just about to text and see how it was going but checked on here first.
While I don't think I would have used the drops for them if they were mine, I expect that they are more of a herbal thing - like a feliway diffuser and people use those all the time when introducing new cats to the household to calm them down.

Keep it slow and don't rush anything, thats going to be the main thing now. I will have a chat with you about what you want to do about the new boys.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2012)

hazyreality said:


> I am glad there is progress in the girls, I was just about to text and see how it was going but checked on here first.
> While I don't think I would have used the drops for them if they were mine, I expect that they are more of a herbal thing -* like a feliway diffuser and people use those all the time when introducing new cats to the household to calm them down.*
> 
> Keep it slow and don't rush anything, thats going to be the main thing now. I will have a chat with you about what you want to do about the new boys.


But with Feliway you don't put anything on the cats. These are administered orally 

And the main ingredient is Inositol which has side effects like: Inositol is POSSIBLY SAFE for most adults. It can cause nausea, tiredness, headache, and dizziness.
Another ingredient is: L-tryptophan can cause some side effects such as heartburn, stomach pain, belching and gas, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and loss of appetite. It can also cause headache, lightheadedness, drowsiness, dry mouth, visual blurring, muscle weakness, and sexual problems.

I wouldn't be happy giving that to any rabbit :001_unsure:


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

The vet obviously considers them safe, and it is a VERY rabbit savvy vet. It is up to the individual what they will "risk" with their own rabbits. I would be far more likely for instance to use these drops than I would put my girls in to be put under GA to be spayed, I personally think *that* is too much of a risk. I am not worried to admit it, its what I believe is right for *my* girls.
If we all thought the same and did the same, it would be one hell of a boring world.

As for the side affects - have you ever read the inserts in things like paracetamol and ibuprofen which thousands/millions of people use on a daily basis - the companys have to put these things, just incase


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Scary! But will it stop me taking it if my knee is playing up and I HAVE to carry on walking for work - not really.

IBUPROFEN SIDE EFFECTS - 
Feeling sick (nausea) 
Ulcers of the stomach 
Worsening of existing bowel conditions (ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease) 
Blood problems (associated with unexplained bruising or bleeding, fever, sore throat, mouth ulcers, extreme paleness of the skin or weakness) 
Skin problems (including hives, itching, rash, irritation) 
Small increased risk of heart attack or stroke 
Headache 
Dizziness 
Tingling of the hands or feet 
Ringing in the ears 
Diarrhoea 
Unusual sensitivity of the skin to the sun 
Tiredness 
Mood swings and confusion 
If any of these persist or you consider them severe then inform your doctor or pharmacist

Stop taking ibuprofen and tell your doctor immediately if you develop any of the following symptoms:
Indigestion or heart burn 
Unexplained pains in your stomach (abdomen) or other unusual stomach problems such as indigestion, feeling sick and or being sick 
Allergic reactions including unexplained wheezing or shortness of breath, runny nose, watery eyes, swelling of the face or tongue, dizziness, light-headedness and unconsciousness (skin problems may also develop which can be severe with peeling and blistering of the skin and sensitivity to light) 
Liver problems, that may be associated with yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes and/or pale stools (motions) and dark urine (water) 
Kidney problems which may be associated with passing less or more water (urine) than normal, cloudy urine, blood in the urine, pain in the back and/or swelling, particularly of the legs 
Nervous system problems (severe headache, neck stiffness, disorientation, and light hurting the eyes [photophobia]) 
Persistent and severe skin rash, itching or irritation at the site of application of ibuprofen gel 
Pass blood in your stools/motions (faeces) 
Pass black tarry stools 
Vomit any blood or black particles that look like coffee grounds. 
Severe sore throat with a high temperature 
Blurred or disturbed sight (vision), or seeing/hearing strange things


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2012)

Yes I am aware of those side effects but I am willing to make a decision about taking them, a rabbit can't.

I'm also aware of your opinion on spaying and as you know completely disagree, I have also told you why I disagree so won't repeat  It is completely irrelevant to giving rabbits chemicals to bond them.

Don't care what the vet said, vets have been wrong in the past....

Yes ultimately it is up to the owner if they use them, but bonding should never be forced. Giving them chemicals is forcing them, and as I said what happens when the drugs wear off? 

Bonding is stressful as we both know, but it shouldn't cause injury.


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> Yes I am aware of those side effects but I am willing to make a decision about taking them, a rabbit can't.
> 
> I'm also aware of your opinion on spaying and as you know completely disagree, I have also told you why I disagree so won't repeat  It is completely irrelevant to giving rabbits chemicals to bond them.
> 
> ...


No its not irrelevent, its about the decisions we make as the people who care for them. Its up to us which decisions we make, or don't make. Including those hard ones at the end of it all. Its what makes us their owners.

Vets have been wrong in the past, but, we all state the importance of finding a rabbit savvy vet, Funky has a rabbit savvy vet, and now she shouldnt trust them? Who do you trust if you don't trust a vet that has earned it?

I agree that bonding shouldnt be forced and it also shouldnt cause injury. Knowing Funky, the "blood" on the eye and the ear will just be from a scrap with sharp claws, they were full on "tazmanian devil" rolling but there was no actual biting etc... 
She was that worried about doing it, if it was more than that, they would have been seperated I assure you. The idea of the "drugs" (from what Funky has said) was to calm Kimi down to not see Ginny as a threat with every move, now that she has accepted that, I don't see why it should change when the "drugs" wear off, and I hope it doesn't.
It would have been nicer to bond them "normally" but Funky is very new to this and I am not available to take them with me at the moment (if I had a few days spare, I would do) she is doing the best she can by her bunnies.

We will not agree on this, like on other things, because ultimately it isn't up to either of us to tell the other one if it is right or not, neither of us actually KNOW what happens/will happen as neither of us have used them.

*Heidi*


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2012)

hazyreality said:


> No its not irrelevent, its about the decisions we make as the people who care for them. Its up to us which decisions we make, or don't make. Including those hard ones at the end of it all. Its what makes us their owners.
> 
> It is irrelevant because this isn't for a medical procedure, we are talking about adding chemicals when there is no need. At best all that is happening at present is behaviour is being suppressed, once the chemical wears off the behaviour will return because the cause wasn't addressed.
> 
> ...


I never said it was right nor wrong, I said I could never agree with it and have stated my reasons why 
I will never resort to it either.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

kimi is out of drug now.she has had two doses and thats it.she hasn't anything yesterday.they seems fine but they like own spaces i.e.sitting in own tray.i don't think they will be best friends but they tolerate each other.
i will give a go with two boys from rspca and see if boys will calm them down and feel happier.
i know lots of people who used drug diffuser for cats.i am not fun drugs for bunnies but i have given a go.like i said ginny had one dose kimi two and we stopped as it seems they are getting on better but still they have little pushes.
i don't want to stop bonding now as we went so far and girls seems alright.obviously if i see that they really fight i separate them but at that moment they seem fine.
i take any advise as i have never done it before.
Richard just has shown pictures of girls sitting together in one litter tray.


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## Funky (Dec 8, 2012)

I have cleaned bottoms of their cages and put it back to their room.
Funny enough they are not sitting in their old trays.it is surprising as Kimi was very protective about her cage.
Bonding is not only stressful for bunnies it is also for their owner.i have been well known as rabbitt freak and last thing I would do is something to make them unhappy.
Now I have question about Saturday...I have read different opinion about bonding new rabbits and it has been said that new bunnies when arriving to new home are too stressed and they should not be put straight away with bunnies with who we want to bond them but other people have taken rabbits to rspca to be bonded there straight away so what shall I do on Saturday?
We have had plan with Heidi to pick up bunnies and put them together with my girls into small cage in a car and drive them back home together and then start bonding process at home.this two little boys I am going to take are very cute and very friendly and I don't want to make them too stress plus there will be my girls who had to put up with each other for a week and would be introduced to new bunnies. Any suggestions what to do?
The other thing how to teach bunnies to use cat flap?two rspca bunnies know as they have them in the centre but my girls completely are not aware of cat flap being there. I don't want to take them to garage as yet as this would be our neutral territory but in the future they could have good run there. Would they learn from two boys?


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Hey Funky. 
I will suggest that we introduce them at home with the girls still not settled entirely - the car idea was best case senario  Although it wouldnt be a bad idea to take the girls for a drive to collect the boys.

I don't think its a major problem bonding them the same day they are picked up, it will be stressful whenever it is done. The problem with waiting is somewhere to put the boys, as if you put them in the garage it won't be neutral anymore. I would have liked to have got them earlier than the rspca are allowing though 

The girls should just learn from the boys about the cat flap - I taped it open for mine when they first had it, but with each new addition they have just followed the older ones.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

I would agree, just tape the cat flap back then once they are confident if you untape it they will nudge it with their noses and realise its not fixed. Good luck with the BIG bond!


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