# Ear Cropping?



## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

****Ear Cropping***​*
Ear cropping is a very difficult decision for anyone, or at least it was when it was legal in this country! it is still legal in some other countries including america.

People recognise certain breeds of dogs for their distinctive look, including the head and the apperance of the cropped ears for certain breeds!. Doberman Pinschers, Boxers and Great Danes are the breeds that everyone recognises straight away for trademark cropped ear appearance. As well as some smaller breeds of dog such such as the Miniature Schnauzer.

Many people have come to question the need for canine ear cropping. Aspects of animal cruelty comes into many peoples mind and will argue that there is no medical, physical, environmental or cosmetic advantage for the dog to have the pinnas (the ear flaps) surgically altered. And for any dog to have "disfiguring" and unnecessary surgical procedures, taping and bandaging that sometimes needs to be done after the surgery amounts to animal cruelty and is indefensible. There are also many people that will argue that for some dogs, ear cropping will help prevent ear canal infections and make the opportunity for pinna trauma and infection much less likely. They will state that the ear cropping is no different philosophically or ethically than any elective surgery:
I.E - spaying, neutering or the removal of dew claws.

Ear infections are common in most breeds of dogs whether they have cropped ears or not. 
Having the choice to crop a dog's ears is a personal decision for the person considering having their pooch under the knife whether pure bred or not. Even though a dog goes under the knife and has their ears taped up after the surgery, not all of these procedures are successful and that is fact!!!!!!
Not all ears will stay erect after the surgery and taping and there is nothing that can be done to make them, no amount of taping and glueing can help them stand 100% erect and not all ears do!!!

Potential reasons for cropped ears not to stand erect:
- The cartilage within the pinna is too thin to support the weight of the ear
- The ear crop was too long for the size of the ear
- The ears are "set too low" on the dog's head
- Scar tissue formed along the ear margin

Some people will add calcium to their puppies diet, hopeing that it will help buid the cartilage in the ear and in fact it doesnt realy do anything for the pups ear cartilage and the minerals with phosphorus and Vitamin D has actually been shown to cause growth problems in dogs and puppies. You should never add calcium to a dog or puppies diet in the hope that it will help strengthen and build up the cartilage, as it wont!

There are all sorts of methods of taping the ears up after the surgery and helping to support the pinnas while they heal. You can do everything right and yet in some dogs the ears will not hold that erect posture, that people aim for which was the potential goal of the surgery in the first place! Even when people massage the pinnas in the hope that the cartilage will strengthen doesnt help either! All pups should be eating a well balanced diet to begin with so supplementing an already high quality diet will have no additional benefits, just over dosing the vitamins and minerals which will potentially cause more problems than good!

Before anyone considers putting their dog/ puppy through an operation to make them look potentially better, you should weigh all the pros and cons, and then make your decision. Not all people will agree with the decision as it is unneccessary surgery. its not beneficial and should always be thought through, more so for the dog/ puppy than for yourself, will they benefit from it????????

Have your dogs had their ears cropped? do you know anyone that has?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Ear cropping has been illegal in this country for some years now


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

tashi said:


> Ear cropping has been illegal in this country for some years now


how many years would that be? i've recently seen a litter of boxers 'de-eared' advertized at our local vets


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

Ive seen on the internet that it was only April 2007 that the law came into this country!

i have also seen some people advertising puppies with cropped ears?????


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## Guest (May 16, 2008)

daycare4dogs said:


> As a veterinarian with 32 years of experience treating hundreds of thousands of dogs during that time, I cannot find medical justification for cropping a dog's pinnas.


I didn't know you were a veterinarian?


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

its a american thing they loved cropped ears,
god knows why i think they are ugly


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

carol said:


> its a american thing they loved cropped ears,
> god knows why i think they are ugly


looks like they've been hit in the face by someting!


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> I didn't know you were a veterinarian?


sorry forgot to take that bit out! lol

im no vet!


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## Guest (May 16, 2008)

daycare4dogs said:


> sorry forgot to take that bit out! lol
> 
> im no vet!


Oh right, where's the info from then?


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## Guest (May 16, 2008)

I love the look of some breeds with cropped ears,such as the apbt,but as pointed out it is illegal to do it in this country.


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

I personally dont like it and think it is an unnecessary practice


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

you can import cropped eared dogs.

but i would like them as they are made with big floppy ears


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

yeah, i know it is still legal practice in America and the law over here doesnt say that you cant import a dog with cropped ears! 

so you can get dogs with cropped ears, but it is a matter of choice of the new owner!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

minnie said:


> how many years would that be? i've recently seen a litter of boxers 'de-eared' advertized at our local vets


it has been illegal for well over 20 years !!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

they should get done,


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

daycare4dogs said:


> yeah, i know it is still legal practice in America and the law over here doesnt say that you cant import a dog with cropped ears!
> 
> so you can get dogs with cropped ears, but it is a matter of choice of the new owner!


you cant show them though it is not allowed by the kennel club


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

I would never have mine done even if it was legal - although some of the shows in America I have seen - some breeds do look very regal with their ears cropped - but I couldnt do it!


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## Guest (May 16, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> I don't like it at all, it's barbaric, i'm on the fence with tail docking as certain working breeds do genuinely require it.
> But ears is a big no no imo!


Totally agree!


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## Ladywiccana (Feb 24, 2008)

*If they are born with it they should keep it! Ok so neutrering and spaying i do tend to agree with this day and age! Even though my boy had his tail docked i wished they hadnt! Surely it's gotta hurt?????*


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

all it is is a pointless cosmetic surgery that is totally unneccessary. i have always been against it as it causes unneccessary suffering to dogs. it is ludacrous to think that people get their dogs ears cropped and think it is ok and stylish!!! *come on what planet are they from????????*


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

ladywiccana said:


> *If they are born with it they should keep it! Ok so neutrering and spaying i do tend to agree with this day and age! Even though my boy had his tail docked i wished they hadnt! Surely it's gotta hurt?????*


Have to admit they make more noise when having dew claws removed, they are docked so early that it is not a bone it is gristle.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

minnie said:


> looks like they've been hit in the face by someting!


he he yeh they looked permanantly shocked!


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

tashi said:


> Have to admit they make more noise when having dew claws removed, they are docked so early that it is not a bone it is gristle.


tail docking is banned, how can you dock them?????


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

daycare4dogs said:


> tail docking is banned, how can you dock them?????


Dont anymore but used to dock and as it happens I could have docked some in this litter because they may be used for working


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

tashi said:


> Dont anymore but used to dock and as it happens I could have docked some in this litter because they may be used for working


ohh right!
dogs do look so much better though with their natural tails, glad to hear they have them still!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

daycare4dogs said:


> ohh right!
> dogs do look so much better though with their natural tails, glad to hear they have them still!


Dont get me started on it cos I would rather them be docked because of the damage they cause to their tails


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Totally agree with you Tashi - the damage caused to tails in working dogs is terrible and very painful that in the end they have them amputated later on !!! Pain that could have been prevented!


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

Debbie said:


> Totally agree with you Tashi - the damage caused to tails in working dogs is terrible and very painful that in the end they have them amputated later on !!! Pain that could have been prevented!


totally agree with you on the working dogs being docked, it does cause alot of damage to the tail if they get caught up in fencing.

someone i went to college with went hunting with her dogs and one of them had to have her tail amputated because she got caught in a fence. cost a fortune too in vet bills!


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## HandsOnPaws (Apr 18, 2008)

Im pro docking but anti cropping.

Do you have the original authors permission to copy and paste all these articles? It would be courteous to link back to the original site


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

HandsOnPaws said:


> Im pro docking but anti cropping.
> 
> Do you have the original authors permission to copy and paste all these articles? It would be courteous to link back to the original site


have already spoke to a moderator about this, will find link and put it on here, dont worry!


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## Guest (May 16, 2008)

dh.dti said:


> I don't like it at all, it's barbaric, i'm on the fence with tail docking as certain working breeds do genuinely require it.
> But ears is a big no no imo!


Agree 100%


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## plumo72 (Nov 2, 2007)

I wouldn't get my dogs ears cropped. I am glad my Boxer still has her tail too


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## plumo72 (Nov 2, 2007)

Ruby with her tail


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I hate ear cropping and I dont think it adds any desirability to the over-all look of a dog


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

plumo72 said:


> Ruby with her tail


awww lovely pics. its wierd seeing a boxer with her tail, but good for her though! 100% natural!


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

plumo72 said:


> Ruby with her tail


great pic, I think she looks good with her tail


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## Smudgeypants (Mar 21, 2008)

Jo P said:


> I hate ear cropping and I dont think it adds any desirability to the over-all look of a dog


totally agree there jo,,,its brutal in the way it can and has been done and looks horrible anyway,,,


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## Smudgeypants (Mar 21, 2008)

plumo72 said:


> Ruby with her tail


great pic,,,she looks so much better with her tail and floppy ears,,,


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## Ladywiccana (Feb 24, 2008)

daycare4dogs said:


> tail docking is banned, how can you dock them?????


I thought it was banned also, but didnt realise when i first went to see my boy that they had had it done! Grrrr. doesnt make me love him any less mind and still wags his tail for england but wished they'd left it on! I have a certificate when the dirty deed was done also! It should be banned if not already!


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

ladywiccana said:


> I thought it was banned also, but didnt realise when i first went to see my boy that they had had it done! Grrrr. doesnt make me love him any less mind and still wags his tail for england but wished they'd left it on! I have a certificate when the dirty deed was done also! It should be banned if not already!


tail docking is banned, but some dogs (working breeds) can still have them docked but only if they are meant to be working dogs!

i think tail docking should be banned for all dogs altogether!


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## Gemma83 (Mar 5, 2008)

daycare4dogs said:


> tail docking is banned, but some dogs (working breeds) can still have them docked but only if they are meant to be working dogs!
> 
> i think tail docking should be banned for all dogs altogether!


I disagree, tail docking has its place for the saftey of working dogs. If its banned altogther (for working dogs as well) then it would put their health in danger. I do not agree with tail docking just beacuse it "looks nice"


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## Gemma83 (Mar 5, 2008)

I completey disagreed with it until I read a thread when I first joined here and people were expalining about what happens to working dogs who aren't docked, completley changed my view on the subject as living in the 'burbs I don't really know anyone that uses a working dog for field working, and therefore never understood the importance of it.


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Daycare - you agreed that the docking of working dogs is for the better - now you are saying it should be banned all together - which is it?
I agree with tail docking in working dogs - being a show person I must say its hard seeing all these dogs with tails - after years of seeing them without - some breeds dont look as attractive as they did without tails - I dont agree with docking un working dogs but it really does change the over look of the dog


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## Guest (May 17, 2008)

i like the looks of dogs wiv cropped ears.
and i like the look of dogs that i have known not to have short tails like the boxers rottys ect.

do i think they should be allowed to continue this??? answer is yes...if done properly by a experianced vet inthat department.

no doubt ur all gonna jump on me and ave a go and call me allsorts...go ahead  coz i aint gonna answer back  its just my opinion and im sticking to it.


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## Gemma83 (Mar 5, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> i like the looks of dogs wiv cropped ears.
> and i like the look of dogs that i have known not to have short tails like the boxers rottys ect.
> 
> do i think they should be allowed to continue this??? answer is yes...if done properly by a experianced vet inthat department.
> ...


Good for you Eolabeo, I don't agree with with you, but I think that everyone is entilled to their own opion.


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## Guest (May 17, 2008)

Gemma83 said:


> Good for you Eolabeo, I don't agree with with you, but I think that everyone is entilled to their own opion.


ty  
i think im the first to like it aint i ???  probs the last by the looks


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

Debbie said:


> Daycare - you agreed that the docking of working dogs is for the better - now you are saying it should be banned all together - which is it?
> I agree with tail docking in working dogs - being a show person I must say its hard seeing all these dogs with tails - after years of seeing them without - some breeds dont look as attractive as they did without tails - I dont agree with docking un working dogs but it really does change the over look of the dog


your right i did agree with working dogs being docked, but that doesnt change my opinion on the whole tail docking business! Collies are working dogs and they dont have their tails docked! Labradors are working dogs and even they dont have their tails docked!

i went to an animal and agracultural college and studied animal management and care for 2 years and studied vet medicine for 1 year so i know the in's and out out's of tail docking! learnt about legislation and all that aswell!

alot of people i went to college with had working dogs and even the dogs on the college farms were working and werent tail docked!!! i know what happens to dogs who get caught on fences and barked wire and i know the consequences after this has happened!

so please dont try to make me out to be an idiot! ive had it up to here today!!!


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

I do like the look of the dogs with cropped ears and I prefer the look of rotties, boxers etc without the long tails - Have I ever owned any of these breeds? Nope - but see enough at dog shows to know what I prefer - could I do it? Nope - could I take them to a vet to do? Nope - so good job my preference of show dog doesnt require a docked tail or not as the case is now -


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Daycare - you do seem to take things very badly - I have seen many a thread where people ask a question of you and you jump right on in there - My question was which opinion was correct after reading 2 answers from you that didnt match - If I was calling you an idiot I would jump right on in there and call you it - but reading back what I did type I know I didnt have a go nor call you anything so please dont jump down at me cos you are having a bad day - we all have those but I dont come on here and take it out on some forum member!


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

Debbie said:


> Daycare - you do seem to take things very badly - I have seen many a thread where people ask a question of you and you jump right on in there - My question was which opinion was correct after reading 2 answers from you that didnt match - If I was calling you an idiot I would jump right on in there and call you it - but reading back what I did type I know I didnt have a go nor call you anything so please dont jump down at me cos you are having a bad day - we all have those but I dont come on here and take it out on some forum member!


i do appologise for jumping down your throat and to me it does seem as though certain people on here like to have a go at newbies, as i have seen it happen to numerous newbies on here!

i agree and disagree, thats why me two opinions are as they are!

but i would prefer the tail docking ban to be just that banned altogether! i know its beneficial to working dogs, but most working breeds who have their tail docked dont even work so the procedure is pointless unless you can prove that all working breeds will be worked then my opinion is as it is!


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## Guest (May 17, 2008)

daycare4dogs said:


> but i would prefer the tail docking ban to be just that banned altogether! i know its beneficial to working dogs, but most working breeds who have their tail docked dont even work so the procedure is pointless unless you can prove that all working breeds will be worked then my opinion is as it is!


Not every dog of a working breed can be docked, it has to be proved that they will be worked!


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

ladywiccana said:


> *If they are born with it they should keep it! Ok so neutrering and spaying i do tend to agree with this day and age! Even though my boy had his tail docked i wished they hadnt! Surely it's gotta hurt?????*


Not all dogs that are docked are going to be working dogs. take a look at this post, her dog is docked and is not a working dog!!!!

So ajshep im sorry but proving that the dog will be working isnt always true is it? clearly from the post ladywiccana posted.


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## snowey (Apr 18, 2008)

daycare4dogs said:


> tail docking is banned, but some dogs (working breeds) can still have them docked but only if they are meant to be working dogs!
> 
> i think tail docking should be banned for all dogs altogether!


I have poodles - all have tails - even the 15 year old. Our last poodle pts, and my mums dog were docked and hate anyone touching their tails.


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

snowey said:


> I have poodles - all have tails - even the 15 year old. Our last poodle pts, and my mums dog were docked and hate anyone touching their tails.


awww poor little souls. Even though the tails heal it must be sensitive to the touch and they proberly remember the pain from when they came reound after having the op. proberly psychological problem!


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## Gemma83 (Mar 5, 2008)

daycare4dogs said:


> awww poor little souls. Even though the tails heal it must be sensitive to the touch and they proberly remember the pain from when they came reound after having the op. proberly psychological problem!


If it happens young enough they wouldn't remember, human men don't remember something some of them once had (trying to not be too rude!)


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

daycare4dogs said:


> Not all dogs that are docked are going to be working dogs. take a look at this post, her dog is docked and is not a working dog!!!!
> 
> So ajshep im sorry but proving that the dog will be working isnt always true is it? clearly from the post ladywiccana posted.


The law is this daycare4dogs - a person who is entitled to dock a litter - ie a person who clearly meets all the criteria - can dock the whole litter as it is impossible to tell at 2 days old which of the litter would be suitable to work. Obviously the rest of the litter must then be sold to pet homes which is perfectly legal. If however this litter wasnt from a working home and was not docked by a vet then thats when the law has been broken. IMHO someone who buys a docked pup that they know came from a non-working home is just as guilty of breaking the law as the person doing the docking


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

daycare4dogs whats ya name - I hate having to call ya daycare4dogs


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

daycare4dogs said:


> awww poor little souls. Even though the tails heal it must be sensitive to the touch and they proberly remember the pain from when they came reound after having the op. proberly psychological problem!


What do you mean - came round from the op???????? They arent knocked out for it - do some research into the subject if you want your arguements to be taken seriously


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## Gemma83 (Mar 5, 2008)

Jo P said:


> What do you mean - came round from the op???????? They arent knocked out for it - do some research into the subject if you want your arguements to be taken seriously


Do they tie it off like an umbillcal cord?


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm no expert Gemma - but there are two methods used - one is banding - like you say it is just a tie - this cuts off the blood supply - then there is cutting - this is when the tail is cut off with scissors. In dogs it is widely thought that their nervous system isnt fully developed for a while after birth so docking is carried out usually within the first 4 days of life


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## Gemma83 (Mar 5, 2008)

Jo P said:


> I'm no expert Gemma - but there are two methods used - one is banding - like you say it is just a tie - this cuts off the blood supply - then there is cutting - this is when the tail is cut off with scissors. In dogs it is widely thought that their nervous system isnt fully developed for a while after birth so docking is carried out usually within the first 4 days of life


I guessed it would be done that young, thanks for the info!


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

With things like ear cropping - i feel that although admittedly some people may feel it looks nice, I personally think that they should just leave the ears as they are unless there is a specific medical reason for doing so (which is very rare).

Concerning tail docking- my initial responceused to be... no way!
I still agree with that if it is for " fashion" reasons that the tail is docked. However I have since read an article about working dogs and the importance of tail docking for certain working breeds- so i ok with that...
Basically
fashion- no way- unnecesary & cruel
working- yes so long as the dog is a working dog that is intended to be worked and that it benefits the dog medically.


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## Guest (May 18, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Not every dog of a working breed can be docked, it has to be proved that they will be worked!


And my arguement is Not every dog in a certain litter will work,the same as dogs bred for showing,not all will make it.

How the hell at 3 days old can you tell which dogs in a litter will work and which wont?
Answer you can't,some may well be gun shy etc....

I did also notice the registratons dropping in some of the breeds that were tradionally docked but now can't be.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> And my arguement is Not every dog in a certain litter will work,the same as dogs bred for showing,not all will make it.
> 
> How the hell at 3 days old can you tell which dogs in a litter will work and which wont?
> Answer you can't,some may well be gun shy etc....
> ...


And that is the reason that this litter of mine were none of them docked at 3 days old it is impossible to pick out the ones that are going to work and your show quality ones that if docked cannot go to Crufts!!!!!!

Also depending on how old ladywiccana's puppy is it may have been legally docked as the docking didnt come into force until April of this year - so as Jo P says do some research into your polls first!!!


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## Guest (May 18, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> And my arguement is Not every dog in a certain litter will work,the same as dogs bred for showing,not all will make it.
> 
> How the hell at 3 days old can you tell which dogs in a litter will work and which wont?
> Answer you can't,some may well be gun shy etc....
> ...


Very true, but then if there was a total ban you would end up with a lot more injuries to working dogs because they weren't docked. I think it's one of those things where unfortunatly there isn't a perfect answer.


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

Jo P said:


> daycare4dogs whats ya name - I hate having to call ya daycare4dogs


my name is jennie and thanks for the info. think i had a blond moment?


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Awww thats better - nice to meet ya Jennie


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

Jo P said:


> Awww thats better - nice to meet ya Jennie


you too. i think i definately had a blond moment back there must not have been properly awak when i wrote the message about OP, duh!


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

daycare4dogs said:


> my name is jennie and thanks for the info. think i had a blond moment?


don't worry we all do sometimes!
don't even get me started on why tail docking should be legal!


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## Guest (May 18, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Very true, but then if there was a total ban you would end up with a lot more injuries to working dogs because they weren't docked. I think it's one of those things where unfortunatly there isn't a perfect answer.


Yep I agree,I think it's important for dogs that are going to be worked to be docked,especially breeds like the ESS,that work in the undergrowth and through bracken flushing game.


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## Jamie's Menagerie (May 7, 2008)

The breed of dog I have can have cropped ears. It was pretty standard to have your BT's ears cropped at one time, but nowadays it's not very common. It's mainly show dogs who have it done, I've never seen a pet BT with cropped ears (and I belong to a huge American BT forum). I would never crop any dog's ears, and BT's are naturally born with short to nonexistent tails (like the bulldog). Though some unscrupulous breeders will dock puppies that are born with longish tails, it is a DQ in the show ring. 

Over here people like to crop pitbull's ears as well - they basically take the whole ear off. Looks awful. And makes them look really mean (which I think is the point  ).

I hope someday we catch up to you guys in the UK and ban cropping altogether. I can see that docking has a purpose with certain breeds, though.


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## daycare4dogs (Apr 29, 2008)

Jamie's Menagerie said:


> The breed of dog I have can have cropped ears. It was pretty standard to have your BT's ears cropped at one time, but nowadays it's not very common. It's mainly show dogs who have it done, I've never seen a pet BT with cropped ears (and I belong to a huge American BT forum). I would never crop any dog's ears, and BT's are naturally born with short to nonexistent tails (like the bulldog). Though some unscrupulous breeders will dock puppies that are born with longish tails, it is a DQ in the show ring.
> 
> Over here people like to crop pitbull's ears as well - they basically take the whole ear off. Looks awful. And makes them look really mean (which I think is the point  ).
> 
> I hope someday we catch up to you guys in the UK and ban cropping altogether. I can see that docking has a purpose with certain breeds, though.


yeah i wish america would catch up with the UK when it came down to ear cropping. your dogs are lovely by the way.


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## jayha (Jun 30, 2009)

I don&#8217;t see any thing in ear cropping, if done carefully. 




Moderator note: this is illegal in the UK but still allowed in other countries


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

well i think its cruel, on an American forum i go on theres quite i few threads where its gone wrong! its just putting a dog through unecessary suffering just for cosmetic purposes.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Gemma83 said:


> If it happens young enough they wouldn't remember, human men don't remember something some of them once had (trying to not be too rude!)


But that's just skin. Tail docking involves cutting through motor nerves (not just sensory ones as in circumcision), bone and muscle as well. Some human amputees report persistent pain from their limb stump. Non-human amputees may also feel pain from limb removal for medical reasons, or docking. They can't report it though.
I see the point of docking working dogs of some breeds, springer and cocker spaniels for instance because of the way they use their tails. However I think they should be left with enough tail to make their mood and intentions clear to other dogs so they can socialise properly. I saw an undocked Weimeraner at the weekend and it's tail looked very frail and whippy, could easily be damaged. 
Ear cropping though - it began with property guard breeds because one of a team of robbers could hold the dog by its ears so it couldn't turn its head to attack them while the rest of the robbers made off with the booty. Cropping the ears meant there was less to get hold of and it made the dog look scarier. We no longer live in such a medieval society and the sooner it's banned worldwide the better. I don't give a stuff what it does to the dog's appearance for good or ill. It's needless and barbaric. What is it with humans that we think we can chop bits off other species to suit us?


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## iceman (Jun 19, 2009)

i think ear cropping is sick,if a dog was supposed to have ears like that they would be made that way!
i love my danes ears the way they are,they are big,floppy & look so out of place at the moment as he is a pup,i often think will he ever grow into his ears!its really sweet!


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2009)

I cant stand ear cropping and if i really aired my views i would probably be heading for a ban!

I have met one dog recently with cropped ears. He is a Giant schnauzer and his owners have just moved here from Japan (i think cropping is pretty common over there). His tail was also completly docked (non existant). Lovely dog but he has hardly any mobility in his ears now which is such a shame.


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## ~Tete (Jun 26, 2009)

My grandad had 6 dobermans with cropped ears that were lovely, but i wouldnt do it, (this was years ago btw)
and they were gaurd dogs too


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> well i think its cruel, on an American forum i go on theres quite i few threads where its gone wrong! its just putting a dog through unecessary suffering just for cosmetic purposes.


Couldnt agree more! ut:


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

I would never consider it unless I was working a dog and they would do serious damage without it. I prefer the uncropped and docked dogs that are running around now they look a hundred times better.


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## kenla210 (Nov 12, 2008)

I don't understand - why would you do this? what is the point?


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

It's done in working gundogs because they can seriously damage their ears and tails if left natural. Rotties etc no one exactly knows.


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## alphadog (Jan 29, 2009)

I wouldn't have ears cropped whilst I still have breath in my body


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> Ive seen on the internet that it was only April 2007 that the law came into this country!


In the UK? It's actually been illegal here for around 100 years.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*i think its sick. i cannot see why anyone would agree with this, i think itds barbaric.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Anything that is of no benefit to the dog should never be done, spaying,neutering is. Tail docking is a benefit to working dogs so havnt got a problem with that. Ear cropping is not a benefit.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

No. In my opinion dogs are not accessories, you should not modify them (unless there is a medical reason!/or it is a working dog) to make them look better.

If you do not a like a dog the way it NATURALLY looks you shouldn't be owning one at all.


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

Nicky09 said:


> It's done in working gundogs because they can seriously damage their ears and tails if left natural. Rotties etc no one exactly knows.


Sorry that's rubbish it's not done in gundog's there tail's but not ear's. no afence nicky


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

in the USA Dobermans dont have a chance of doing well at shows unless there ears are cropped, i think theres only about 3 dogs(i asked this question on an American forum) who have been made up to Champions. I think that gives the showdog world a very bad name over there.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

I've never even heard of ear cropping before! Only ever heard of tails being docked. I don't really see why someone would want to do it though.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I've never even heard of ear cropping before! Only ever heard of tails being docked. I don't really see why someone would want to do it though.


Doberman without cropped ears:










Doberman with cropped ears:










And this I assume is the 'healing process' after the ears have been cropped:










In my opinion it just makes them look more intimidating.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

_Barbaric! legal or not! _


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> In my opinion it just makes them look more intimidating.


I suspect that's why the do it. Personally, I can think of no good reason and agree it is a barbaric practice.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I had a "discussion" with an American Doberman breeder once. She claimed it improved their hearing 

You will hear all manner of justifications for it, but it boils down to nothing more than a cosmetic procedure, done merely because someone, at some point thought it looked nice. There is no benefit AT ALL to the animal.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Dundee said:


> I suspect that's why the do it. Personally, I can think of no good reason and agree it is a barbaric practice.


I don't know if there's evidence that it's done for medical reasons or good for working dogs but I don't agree with it. It's horrible.

My auntie has a doberman (ears uncropped) and he is the sweetest thing ever however I would never approach a doberman with cropped ears - and it's a sad thing 



Nonnie said:


> I had a "discussion" with an American Doberman breeder once. She claimed it improved their hearing
> 
> You will hear all manner of justifications for it, but it boils down to nothing more than a cosmetic procedure, done merely because someone, at some point thought it looked nice. There is no benefit AT ALL to the animal.


Maybe we should crop her ears and see if it has any effect on her hearing


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## Yogi B (Dec 24, 2008)

carol said:


> its a american thing they loved cropped ears,
> god knows why i think they are ugly


as an American who breeds Miniature Pinschers, sorry but you are way off on that statement. It would be more adviseable for you to take time to know facts instead of assuming and blaming any one country just because you do not agree with it. In actuality majority of us (by us I mean long time breeders rarely crop ears). My recent litter has natural standing ears and this is what many are breeding for though it will always be a hit and miss. Though the MPCA and AKC no longer require it, there are many old time breeders who are reluctant to change this and the fact that judges still prefer to see the original look. As Miniature Pinschers are not cropped at an early age as many other breeds (Miniature Pinschers are generally done at 18 to 24 weeks) the majority do not have their ears cropped. Just because it is legal it makes no sense to assume that everyone runs out and does it when in fact they do not. Less and less are having their pups cropped every years and the fact is the majority of not been cropped long before the UK law was put into effect. You are taking a lot of liberties with little facts. So for the record, it is NOT and American thing as you put it. Though it is still legal here the fact is a very small percent of non show dogs are cropped and for that matter there are less Veterinarians performing this procedure every year.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Doberman without cropped ears:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the ears cropped look awful  They look alot nicer without cropped ears.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

> My recent litter has natural standing ears


I don't understand, you mean natural standing ears? Or cropped(natural) standing ears? If they're cropped standing ears I don't understand how this is natural 

Sorry if I make no sense, it's late here.

I still stand by my point, cropped ears make dobermans look intimidating and have no purpose whatsoever.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I think the ears cropped look awful  They look alot nicer without cropped ears.


This is my mum's doberman/gsd:










and I think she looks gorgeous with uncropped ears


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

AJ said:


> Not every dog of a working breed can be docked, it has to be proved that they will be worked!


It cant be proved that they will be worked, a dog has to be docked leagally bafore it is 3/5 days not quite sure. The proof has to be that the pups are from working stock and the breeder has to have a licence or the person the pups are from has. They then get a proof of legal docking with the relevant information needed.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Burrowzig said:


> But that's just skin. Tail docking involves cutting through motor nerves (not just sensory ones as in circumcision), bone and muscle as well. Some human amputees report persistent pain from their limb stump. Non-human amputees may also feel pain from limb removal for medical reasons, or docking. They can't report it though.
> I see the point of docking working dogs of some breeds, springer and cocker spaniels for instance because of the way they use their tails. However I think they should be left with enough tail to make their mood and intentions clear to other dogs so they can socialise properly. I saw an undocked Weimeraner at the weekend and it's tail looked very frail and whippy, could easily be damaged.
> Ear cropping though - it began with property guard breeds because one of a team of robbers could hold the dog by its ears so it couldn't turn its head to attack them while the rest of the robbers made off with the booty. Cropping the ears meant there was less to get hold of and it made the dog look scarier. We no longer live in such a medieval society and the sooner it's banned worldwide the better. I don't give a stuff what it does to the dog's appearance for good or ill. It's needless and barbaric. What is it with humans that we think we can chop bits off other species to suit us?


They dont cut through bone etc as such thats why they have to be done at a few days old before the bone has formed into bone it is amputation when they are older if the dogs tails are damaged and i have seen this happen its horrendous they then have to go through an amputation.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Ear cropping did have a functional reason (like tail docking) in fighting breeds to avoid having their whole ear torn off by an opponent. These were pretty close crops, too. Dogues aren't cropped anymore but were in their fighting days like this photo.


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## Yogi B (Dec 24, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> They dont cut through bone etc as such thats why they have to be done at a few days old before the bone has formed into bone it is amputation when they are older if the dogs tails are damaged and i have seen this happen its horrendous they then have to go through an amputation.


in addition, there is no motor nerves at 4 days as they have yet to develop. Nerves have not developed which is why this is the age for docking. As noted, after this it is considered amputation where the nerves have developed and actual tail bones have developed.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Yogi B said:


> in addition, there is no motor nerves at 4 days as they have yet to develop. Nerves have not developed which is why this is the age for docking. As noted, after this it is considered amputation where the nerves have developed and actual tail bones have developed.


Hiya, sorry, I'll post my question again it's probably got lost in the other comments

(in reference to your litter having natural standing ears):

I don't understand, you mean natural standing ears? Or cropped(natural) standing ears? If they're cropped standing ears I don't understand how this is natural

Sorry if I make no sense, it's late here.

I still stand by my point, cropped ears make dobermans look intimidating and have no purpose whatsoever.


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## Yogi B (Dec 24, 2008)

sequeena said:


> I don't understand, you mean natural standing ears? Or cropped(natural) standing ears? If they're cropped standing ears I don't understand how this is natural
> 
> Sorry if I make no sense, it's late here.
> 
> I still stand by my point, cropped ears make dobermans look intimidating and have no purpose whatsoever.


natural standing ears means just what it states, "natural". Cropping is used to help ears that normally would not stand, to stand. Even in the case of cropping, many times they still will not stand but in the case of Miniature Pinschers, natural standing ears means that the ear in no way is altered but is able to stand on its own as opposed to what is commonly referred to as button ears. The pics below show the sire (button ears) the dam (natural standing ears, not cropped) and the pups (again, natural standing ears).


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