# registration question



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Just had someone ask me a question.

They got a kitten and apparently breeder has left registration card (or so i assume) blank so that new owner can choose their own pedigree name.

Now i dont understand this at all,i understand this is only something the breeder can do,but i dont know enough regarding declaring kittens etc and wondered if this is what has maybe gone on..thoughts please.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I didnt think you could do that , like you said the breeder has too register the litter 

So basically the person has purchased a unregistered kitten .. Weird one Sara


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I've never declared a litter but assume that the buyer of a declared kitten can register them as they wish with the breeder's prefix. They would have to have a mating certificate though to register the kitten. I believe that if the kitten is declared it can be registered as active if the purchaser chooses.
I don't know enough about declaring to know if I am right or not though


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> I didnt think you could do that , like you said the breeder has too register the litter
> 
> So basically the person has purchased a unregistered kitten .. Weird one Sara


Apparently thisis a TICA registered kitten and cost £650.

Kitten has been sold as female but is 100% male iv seen pics,what can they do?

If its a registered breeder.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> I've never declared a litter but assume that the buyer of a declared kitten can register them as they wish with the breeder's prefix. They would have to have a mating certificate though to register the kitten. I believe that if the kitten is declared it can be registered as active if the purchaser chooses.
> I don't know enough about declaring to know if I am right or not though


very interesting maybe its this


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Yes a lot of TICA breeders do this, I don't though as I pay for it myself and put the new owners details and TICA put it in their name for FREE! Unlike GCCF which wants you to pay to change it.

You can also do it with GCCF, you declare a litter, however the new owner then has a choice of putting it on active!! But if they were neutered then I guess it wouldn't matter.

But I still pay and do all of mine as I think it should be part of the parcel of buying a pedigree kitten.

£650?? What breed???????


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Simply declaring your kittens, offers them no protection at all, they are, in reality, unregistered and as a breeder you are, to all intents and purposes, abandoning them.
Section 1 Rule 3b states: Kittens which have been declared may be registered at a later date, either by the breeder or by the new owner. Similarly, a breeder may decide if there are no kittens of show quality in a litter, not to declare or register any of them. Once again, those kittens are sold without protection, If NO kittens from a litter have been registered by the breeder, any kitten from that litter may be registered at a later date, either by the breeder or the new owner. (Section 1 Rule 3c).
Furthermore, to protect the rights of someone purchasing an unregistered kitten, the GCCF Rules Section 1 Rule 3f states: If a kitten is sold unregistered, in addition to the pedigree, the seller shall supply a copy of the certificate of mating whether or not the seller is the registered owner of the sire. Any application to register the kitten at a later date must be accompanied by this certificate.
The laws of the land protect the purchaser and they make it quite clear that after buying a pedigree kitten that was simply declared or unregistered, the new owner can go ahead, register it on the Active Register and breed from it. However, the unregistered or declared kitten will have the GCCF prefix rather than the breeders.
I hope I have made it clear to everyone, after reading the above, that a pedigree kitten of pet quality, or one with perhaps a defect that should not be passed on to future generations, could be bred from, quite legally, UNLESS ITS BREEDER TAKES THE RESPONSIBLE STEPS TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING by registering all kittens not suitable for breeding on the Non-Active Register.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

TB its a Siberian,so could be ligit,still its not good if owner wanted a said sex and got the other,what can be done 

There is a theory,breeder was going to keep a boy back as he was like dad but commented they didnt have room for another stud,its thought maybe breeder as pulled a fast one and kept a girl.Then gave buyer this male.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> There is a theory,breeder was going to keep a boy back as he was like dad but commented they didnt have room for another stud,its thought maybe breeder as pulled a fast one and kept a girl.Then gave buyer this male.


Sounds a bit odd. Could there have been a genuine mistake? Or could the kitten be one of those which starts out looking like on sex then appears to change? (It can happen, I'm told - although that again might just have been breeder error).


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> TB its a Siberian,so could be ligit,still its not good if owner wanted a said sex and got the other,what can be done
> 
> There is a theory,breeder was going to keep a boy back as he was like dad but commented they didnt have room for another stud,its thought maybe breeder as pulled a fast one and kept a girl.Then gave buyer this male.


OH I have heard of them being a bit higher in price, but to do that to someone and not register... doesn't really sound good does it? Are you going to register and neuter? They are normally given a blue slip the breeder signs it and ticks not for breeding etc, saves the breeder about £10 by not doing it themselves, bit harsh esp if she just spent £650 on a kitten!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MerlinsMum said:


> Sounds a bit odd. Could there have been a genuine mistake? Or could the kitten be one of those which starts out looking like on sex then appears to change? (It can happen, I'm told - although that again might just have been breeder error).


Imo easily done with tabbies for some reason.

The thing is the buyer wanted a female as its a male household,this male kit isnt fitting in at all hence them wanting a female,can anything be done if breeder isnt offering a swap?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> Imo easily done with tabbies for some reason.
> 
> The thing is the buyer wanted a female as its a male household,this male kit isnt fitting in at all hence them wanting a female,can anything be done if breeder isnt offering a swap?


I don't see any problem with a male going to a male household at all, I would have even said yes get a male, they get on with things and no problem if all are neutered! I think they have already thought 'this wont work' and that's that.

How long have they had kittens? did they do extremely slow intros? Girls can be a lot more fussy, you sure that's the only reason they want a girly? Surely the breeder would have said it doesn't really matter the sex?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> I don't see any problem with a male going to a male household at all, I would have even said yes get a male, they get on with things and no problem if all are neutered! I think they have already thought 'this wont work' and that's that.
> 
> How long have they had kittens? did they do extremely slow intros? Girls can be a lot more fussy, you sure that's the only reason they want a girly? Surely the breeder would have said it doesn't really matter the sex?


Defo not cause they want to breed TB.

Alls i know is they wanted a girl,paid for a girl and got a boy

If that was me id be so sorry and offer kit of correct sex..if not dosh back.

They have contacted breeder an breeder has basically made out that buyers lack of experience in sexing kits is the reason they feel they got wrong sex kit,iv seen pics this kit is defo male..balls and all.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> Defo not cause they want to breed TB.
> 
> Alls i know is they wanted a girl,paid for a girl and got a boy
> 
> ...


I don't see a problem if they have a boy BUT if they went for a girl and the breeder knew that's a diff story then  So the breeder is saying its their fault they didn't realise??


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> I don't see a problem if they have a boy BUT if they went for a girl and the breeder knew that's a diff story then  So the breeder is saying its their fault they didn't realise??


They told breeder they think they have a boy,breeder said what that what ijust wrote,buyer hasnt been back in touch with breeder yet as they want to get their facts straight 1st.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> They told breeder they think they have a boy,breeder said what that what ijust wrote,buyer hasnt been back in touch with breeder yet as they want to get their facts straight 1st.


ah right just re read are they saying that its a girl they have not a boy?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> ah right just re read are they saying that its a girl they have not a boy?


sorry tb,they wanted a girl but got a boy


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

when they took the new kitten home,they told breeder they think the kits a boy,breeder said no its a girl,as time has gone on its become clear its a boy,hope this makes it clearer


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> sorry tb,they wanted a girl but got a boy


lol I know that! I mean did the breeder say to them 'this is a girl' and then they said to her 'we think we have a boy' and then the breeder has replied saying 'you don't know how to sex her, its a girl' ? lol!! sorry its me Im rubbish :blush: 

ah yes above that's what I meant! So they are still saying its a boy and its obvious its a boy, so what had the breeder said to that? OR Are they hoping they fall in love with the boy...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> lol I know that! I mean did the breeder say to them 'this is a girl' and then they said to her 'we think we have a boy' and then the breeder has replied saying 'you don't know how to sex her, its a girl' ? lol!! sorry its me Im rubbish :blush:
> 
> ah yes above that's what I meant! So they are still saying its a boy and its obvious its a boy, so what had the breeder said to that? OR Are they hoping they fall in love with the boy...


breeder was adament (sp) they gave buyer a girl,they know buyer wants a girl,i thought they might be hoping they fall in love wi boy too,playing a fast one,who knows?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I would be knocking on there door , wanting the girl or my money back... Makes you wonder that's why the breeder didnt reg the kits ... Weird


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> could be bred from, quite *legally*, UNLESS ITS BREEDER TAKES THE RESPONSIBLE STEPS TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING by registering all kittens not suitable for breeding on the Non-Active Register.


Could someone please explain this to me - the bit I've bolded. I'm not quite sure what statutes are involved to make this a 'legal' issue.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I would be knocking on there door , wanting the girl or my money back...


I think I'd stick to money back. As I've read this thread I don't think it would be sensible to deal with a breeder who blames the buyer for not sexing a kitten correctly. This does assume it wasn't the buyer who did so of course. It's all a bit confused. Does the TICA registration document specify a gender? Surely it does. Which gender is the cat registered?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

havoc said:


> I think I'd stick to money back. As I've read this thread I don't think it would be sensible to deal with a breeder who blames the buyer for not sexing a kitten correctly. This does assume it wasn't the buyer who did so of course. It's all a bit confused. Does the TICA registration document specify a gender? Surely it does. Which gender is the cat registered?


They want the buyer to register the kitten, so my guess is that they haven't filled in any of those details just signed the blue form and give it to them to fill in and send off the rest! Saves them about £8  And they also didn't have to specify gender!

OH! Hang on, what does the vet vaccination card say????? As the kitten would have been checked to see if he was m/f? My vets always double check even if I tell them just to make sure boys bits are down for the neutering 2weeks later and the girls don't have any bits lol :laugh:


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Exactly. My vet doesn't EN but they still check genders and would note things like undescended testicles. Something really isn't right here.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

havoc said:


> Exactly. My vet doesn't EN but they still check genders and would note things like undescended testicles. Something really isn't right here.


Oh mine doesn't either not the ones that vaccinate them, but they always check just to make sure!

Im really interested to know what it says now, check the colour /pattern as well as mine said that they have to write it in and any features that I want to add, and a chip number if kitten was chipped, they also said its law to put in the owners / breeders name and address .
(although I don't know if that bit is true - I ask them to write it in pencil so the new owners can change it, but they wont do that, they use a sticker now so the new vet can stick a new sticker over it!)


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Ill try get some more answers.The person whos cat it is has actually read this thread and are aware of all comments hopefully will give these answers shortly by themselves if not im happy to post on messages.

my vet also checks sexes..interesting hmm.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

ok iv been emailed copy of reg doc's and vac's card and both state female.

The registration doc isnt a blue slip it looks like white paper.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> ok iv been emailed copy of reg doc's and vac's card and both state female.
> 
> The registration doc isnt a blue slip it looks like white paper.


what colour/pattern? What were the other littermates like... could the card have easily been swapped for another littermate? What do they write on the front? Mine write the kittens pedigree names on them...

White? Hmmm I don't know then its blue, never seen a white slip, and from what I know they are still blue as someone on another forum just asked a question and hers is blue and she needs to send it off. the ones they then send you once regged are green-y?

Also I don't rem Siberians being £650, normally around £500? Just had a look about, nearly all of them are advertised as hypoallergenic... but the most expensive were £600 and they came fully neutered from heart screen parents! The rest were £395-500. Then a lot of £75-250, which were basically moggies!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> what colour/pattern? What were the other littermates like... could the card have easily been swapped for another littermate? What do they write on the front? Mine write the kittens pedigree names on them...
> 
> White? Hmmm I don't know then its blue, never seen a white slip, and from what I know they are still blue as someone on another forum just asked a question and hers is blue and she needs to send it off. the ones they then send you once regged are green-y?
> 
> Also I don't rem Siberians being £650, normally around £500? Just had a look about, nearly all of them are advertised as hypoallergenic... but the most expensive were £600 and they came fully neutered from heart screen parents! The rest were £395-500. Then a lot of £75-250, which were basically moggies!


this is the slip iv crossed out personal details as im not sure the person wants to be known.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

what i find odd is that this white slip states how many are in the litter my registration cards for new owners dont have that written on them,only the form to register a whole litter has that on,but again i dont know anything about how only declaring kittens paperwork works.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Iv just realised the kitten was £400,the rest was travel expenses.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> this is the slip iv crossed out personal details as im not sure the person wants to be known.
> 
> View attachment 127947


Looks like a female brown classic tab, can you ask in the litter were there anymore brown tabs? As that is then easy to swap over the vet vac card!

edit: ok just looked on tica, Ive not seen that form before its different to mine, but if they had declared the litter already then they would be giving out blue slips, so that looks like the actual breeder form what they send it (maybe they have changed by diff to mine from this year!) I also think they need to put the prefix in the name choice boxes, I always have!

http://www.tica-uk.org.uk/html/litter_registrations.html

Yes I thought so it hasn't changed this is what I use and always have done:
http://www.tica.org/members/forms/registration/litter_registration.pdf

so I would send that in by email, then they send me green slips 1 for me with the kitten details and 1 each for the new kitten owners with their name / address not for breeding etc etc. IF you just declare a litter then you get a blue slip for the new owner to pay to transfer into their name!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> I think they have printed that off the website, and that looks like the actual breeder slip that is what I would fill in... why have they given that to the new owner???
> 
> And can you declare with tica? (never done it so not sure!) I actually think they have just printed off the main form filled it in and given copies to the new owner, Im not really understanding why they have done this, it doesn't make sense to me, esp when they could just email tica and get it put in the new owners name. Seems a bit odd?
> 
> ...


thats what i thought that it looks like a breeders registering a whole litter thingy then breeder sends that to gccf,tica what ever then tica should send cards out to give to new owners etc.

Yeah ill ask what the other colours were.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Iv just realised the kitten was £400,the rest was travel expenses.


Did these buyers ever visit the breeder's home?


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Sounds very fishy to me, why doesn't the new owner take the kitten to her own vet for clarification, if wlbsh has seen that the kitten s a boy
I am sure she can tell, maybe vacc cards have been swopped, but surely the breeder must realise that no one can be fooled forever, and the truth will come out 
If it was me I would take it my own vet and get it in writing that its a boy


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> Did these buyers ever visit the breeder's home?


yes they collected the kitten.

Also the litter were all classic brown tabbies


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> Sounds very fishy to me, why doesn't the new owner take the kitten to her own vet for clarification, if wlbsh has seen that the kitten s a boy
> I am sure she can tell, maybe vacc cards have been swopped, but surely the breeder must realise that no one can be fooled forever, and the truth will come out
> If it was me I would take it my own vet and get it in writing that its a boy


ill show you pics one min.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)




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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> yes they collected the kitten.
> 
> Also the litter were all classic brown tabbies


Oh well its simple then, all the same colour very easy to swap them over! They swapped the kitten as they wanted a girl, and given out the wrong form to them as they cant be bothered to register them themselves!

Then they never visited so were probably only emailed a few pictures? Didn't know which kitten was which! Were given the boy. Doubt they will hear back from them...!

P.s. def a boy!!!!!!!!! :laugh:


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Looks like a boy to me, difficult to see easily on a photo, being long haired, but I would say a boy, but you could tell by feeling anyway couldn't you?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> Looks like a boy to me, difficult to see easily on a photo, being long haired, but I would say a boy


 Can see rounded tip cant ya and fur is darker on balls.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> yes they collected the kitten.
> 
> Also the litter were all classic brown tabbies





we love bsh's said:


> Can see rounded tip cant ya and fur is darker on balls.


I can see balls and his little, erm, dinkle coming out, that is def a boy!!  :hand:


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> yes they collected the kitten.


Sorry, confused. What were the £250 travel costs they've paid for then?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> I can see balls and his little, erm, dinkle coming out, that is def a boy!!  :hand:


pmsl.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> Sorry, confused. What were the £250 travel costs they've paid for then?


They had to stay in a hotel i believe let me double check.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

so you all know the story like i do;

Really sorry for the PM but wanted some advice from a breeder. 
I responded to an advert for Siberian kittens that were TICA registered. I expressly asked for a little girl as I thought a girl would fit better with my mostly male household. 
We went to visit the breeder who showed us a gorgeous little girl and we said yes as she was just what we wanted. All kittens looked similar, all classic brown tabbies. 
We paid our deposit and prepared for the long trip home from Manchester to Wiltshire. 
Two weeks ago we brought **** home. After a day I noticed that she appeared to be a he and expressed my concerns to the breeder who assured me she was most definitely a she and blamed my ignorance on girly bits for my doubts. 
Tonight I was stroking **** and she rolled over and she is most definitely not a she!
Looking at the paperwork. I should have a girl with green eyes and my kitten does not have green eyes and is not a boy. 
I am desperately hoping that there has been a very big mistake and that I have been mistakenly given the wrong kitten but my doubts have been raised as the breeder had said at the time if she had had the space she would have kept ***** to show. When we went back to pick up ***** she said she was keeping a boy as he looked like his dad and would keep him to stud. 
My fears are that she has knowingly given me the wrong kitten hoping that by the time I realised the mistake I would be so in love I wouldn't want to swop. I just don't know what to do 
Yes part of me has fallen for him but he's not the kitten I chose and there is friction between him and some of my other cats both of whom were the reason I wanted a little girl and not another dominant male. I met **** dad and he was huge!!!

I guess what I'm asking is what would be the best way to approach this with the breeder or with TICA as I have his documents to register him as I wanted to choose the pedigree name. Does the fact the info I have relate to another cat make ***** pretty much a moggy as I have no papers for him? 

Sorry if you feel I have contacted you inappropriately, I just wanted to pass it through someone who would have more knowledge than me in these kind of matters

Many thanks


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

When did they get the kitten? as on that paper dob was 8-sept,


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

more info;

Basically been sold a female kitten who isn't a female. Am worried I have been tricked by the breeder who said if she had space she would have kept her. When we went to pick her up she said she was keeping a boy. I was concerned the next day she was a he but my lack of knowledge on cat bits I accepted what she said. 
I am now pretty definite **** is a boy, they were all very similarly marked and hard to tell apart. The papers I have state I have a female green eyes girl. **** eyes are a golden brown colour 
I just don't know how to handle the situation. I am hoping that it is a genuine mistake and that the breeder isn't relying on me being so in love with the kitten I won't care. 
The reason I wanted a female is that I thought a girl would fit better in our predominantly male household. Another dominant male would be tough. I've seen **** dad and he's a monster!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

amd more...


Just want to get facts straight before contacting her and knowing where I stand. He's a gorgeous bundle of fluff but not what I paid for. What with his price and travel/hotel expenses this little fella has cost over £650!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> When did they get the kitten? as on that paper dob was 8-sept,


2weeks ago


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

So at approx. 9 weeks old if I have reckoned right, so the kitten cant have had both vaccinations can he? and you have no papers, pedigree etc? [for £400]? as that should have sex of kitten on too


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> So at approx. 9 weeks old if I have reckoned right, so the kitten cant have had both vaccinations can he? and you have no papers, pedigree etc? [for £400]? as that should have sex of kitten on too


If thats the case the vaccination card would have to be fake cos iv seen it andsays both lots were given..can you double heck the dates?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Sale date 7/11/13 ...kitten born 9/8/13.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

As I don't know the exact date the kitten was collected, except 2 weeks ago, it is only a rough guess, but if the kittens were born on the 8th Sept the kitten cant have been 12 or 13 weeks old when collected, so couldn't have had full vaccinations could it


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> As I don't know the exact date the kitten was collected, except 2 weeks ago, it is only a rough guess, but if the kittens were born on the 8th Sept the kitten cant have been 12 or 13 weeks old when collected, so couldn't have had full vaccinations could it


no 9th of august


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Ahh, going by breeder slip,it says 8-9-2013, maybe written the American way, very sorry, only read it as it says
Still should have a pedigree paper though with sex of kitten on?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> As I don't know the exact date the kitten was collected, except 2 weeks ago, it is only a rough guess, but if the kittens were born on the 8th Sept the kitten cant have been 12 or 13 weeks old when collected, so couldn't have had full vaccinations could it


isee how you mis understood that ,think tica do date opposite to us.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Aren't the kittens microchipped? I've only had 2 of the same colour and sex a couple of times, I scan the kitten to ensure all paperwork matches the right kitten. 

Could be the breeder made an honest mistake, shame they weren't up on early neutering or it would have been picked up then.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Yes, sorry, forgot TICA would write it that way, hasn't she got a pedigree though with sex of kitten on
I really think the best thing would be to take kitten to her own veyt and get it in writing, but what a long way to go if they have to go back to the breeders, 
If this was done on purpose its a dirty trick though, probably counting on the new owners getting attached to the kitten,


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Any more news on this Sara ..


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

spotty cats said:


> Aren't the kittens microchipped? I've only had 2 of the same colour and sex a couple of times, I scan the kitten to ensure all paperwork matches the right kitten.


That's a good point. Is the microchip number written on the vacc certificate?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Aren't the kittens microchipped? I've only had 2 of the same colour and sex a couple of times, I scan the kitten to ensure all paperwork matches the right kitten.
> 
> Could be the breeder made an honest mistake, shame they weren't up on early neutering or it woulked have been picked up then.


There not chipped no.Yes it could be a honest mistake.Personally i think breeder should get something sorted as its their mistake.

TE=jaycee05;1063365012]Yes, sorry, forgot TICA would write it that way, hasn't she got a pedigree though with sex of kitten on
I really think the best thing would be to take kitten to her own veyt and get it in writing, but what a long way to go if they have to go back to the breeders, 
If this was done on purpose its a dirty trick though, probably counting on the new owners getting attached to the kitten,[/QUOTE]

yes shes got the pedigree


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MerlinsMum said:


> That's a good point. Is the microchip number written on the vacc certificate?


no not chipped.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> no not chipped.


Gah.

gfnrjsghrewighvjofsw


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MerlinsMum said:


> Gah.
> 
> gfnrjsghrewighvjofsw


lol.i even double scan my own kittens before they leave to make sure i not made no mistake,the chip number must tie with vaccs card,reg card and pedigree,well thats what i do,can be mind boggling when you have 9 kittens and all that paperwork.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MerlinsMum said:


> Gah.
> 
> gfnrjsghrewighvjofsw


Did you just write a secret message


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Well it can only be 1 of two things, either the breeder had made a mistake, although the vet would of checked or they know what they did.

Have they contacted them again? With pictures saying its been confirmed that the kitten is a boy?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> Did you just write a secret message


Yeah I did. It's in Catese.
(one way to get around the Not Enough Characters....lol)


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> Well it can only be 1 of two things, either the breeder had made a mistake, although the vet would of checked or they know what they did.
> 
> Have they contacted them again? With pictures saying its been confirmed that the kitten is a boy?


An email hs now been sent with pics included,basially asking how such a issue came to be.Lets see what breeder comes back with. 


MerlinsMum said:


> Yeah I did. It's in Catese.
> (one way to get around the Not Enough Characters....lol)


Ok merlinsmum im really really lost by the secret message and your going to have to spell it out lol.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> Ok merlinsmum im really really lost by the secret message and your going to have to spell it out lol.


Ok it said gfnrjsghrewighvjofsw. My Catese is rusty but it was basically, "If I haven't written a long enough post, here's some gibberish, will that do?" :wink:

What? Did I use the wrong conjunction on a verb or something? :huh:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MerlinsMum said:


> Ok it said gfnrjsghrewighvjofsw. My Catese is rusty but it was basically, "If I haven't written a long enough post, here's some gibberish, will that do?" :wink:
> 
> What? Did I use the wrong conjunction on a verb or something? :huh:


pmsl dont do that to me MM i was looking forward to it been something really really interesting.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Hope it all gets sorted out soon , I think the breeder should pay any costs involved in returning the kitten,if that is what is going to happen
It will be interesting to see the reply from her,


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Something i find odd,look at the registration card photo,top left it says breeder name choice 1..breeder name choice 2,written from a computer it gives the breeders prefix in both places.

Surely it should be the name of the kitten that goes there.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

I've always been able to choose my cats name through CFA. Breeder fills in all the information on registration blue slip except Cat Name. Cattery Prefix is typed in, new owner adds first and second choice of names.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

MerlinsMum said:


> Ok it said gfnrjsghrewighvjofsw. My Catese is rusty but it was basically, "If I haven't written a long enough post, here's some gibberish, will that do?" :wink:
> 
> What? Did I use the wrong conjunction on a verb or something? :huh:


I knew what you meant to do lol! I normally put loads of .... if I don't write enough words lol! :laugh:

Any news on this??? Has the breeder replied??


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> I knew what you meant to do lol! I normally put loads of .... if I don't write enough words lol! :laugh:
> 
> Any news on this??? Has the breeder replied??


yes shes replied let me get the message


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> I knew what you meant to do lol! I normally put loads of .... if I don't write enough words lol! :laugh:
> 
> Any news on this??? Has the breeder replied??


Hi there. I cannot open the file on my phone to see but I assure you that the kitten you have is (name of cat) no one else has the wrong kitten? i will have to look on laptop when I go to my parents later? I have to register eye colour as what it is at that time eye colour can change! Speak soon. L

So basically nothing there answering why the mistake has been made.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I have to register eye colour as what it is at that time eye colour can change!


I thought the whole point was that the breeder hasn't registered these kittens at all. When you declare a litter with the GCCF you don't give details of individuals and I thought it was roughly the same with TICA. Only when you actually register individuals do you give such details, if at all as only some breeds have eye colour included in reg details. The comment is rubbish anyway. You can register kittens when they're still young enough to all have blue eyes.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> I thought the whole point was that the breeder hasn't registered these kittens at all. When you declare a litter with the GCCF you don't give details of individuals and I thought it was roughly the same with TICA. Only when you actually register individuals do you give such details, if at all as only some breeds have eye colour included in reg details. The comment is rubbish anyway. You can register kittens when they're still young enough to all have blue eyes.


Yes the breeder has completely ignored answering what was been asked in regards to the sex of the kitten,here is what was wrote to the breeder from the buyer.

I am writing to let you know that **** is fine, happy and healthy but there does appear to be a problem. I know I emailed you when I brought **** home that I was worried I had the wrong kitten as she appeared to be a he. As time has gone on it has become more apparent that this is in fact the case. I took some photo's yesterday and sent them to another breeder who confirmed that she has boy bits. I have attached these photo's for you to look at. Also the registration form states that she should have green eyes whereas the kitten I have here has golden brown eyes.

This kind of suggests someone else has **** and I have their kitten and there has been a mix up and I would like to know what has happened to **** and whether anyone else has notice they have the wrong kitten?

I look forward to hearing from you about this issue

Kindest Regards,


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

What exactly was the process of booking and obtaining this kitten? I know you've said they collected it in person but what went before? Did the buyer see the whole litter and choose their kitten or was this an internet/phone deal up to the moment of collection? What exactly was the collection process? How did they pay? Were there other kittens from the litter still there? Did they see other cats in the house?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> What exactly was the process of booking and obtaining this kitten? I know you've said they collected it in person but what went before? Did the buyer see the whole litter and choose their kitten or was this an internet/phone deal up to the moment of collection? What exactly was the collection process? How did they pay? Were there other kittens from the litter still there? Did they see other cats in the house?


Will try and get those questions asap.

I believe they viewed kittens before they were ready.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> What exactly was the process of booking and obtaining this kitten? I know you've said they collected it in person but what went before? Did the buyer see the whole litter and choose their kitten or was this an internet/phone deal up to the moment of collection? What exactly was the collection process? How did they pay? Were there other kittens from the litter still there? Did they see other cats in the house?


heres the reply havoc,

I went up once to visit before collecting. TBH they all looked very similar. All classic tabbies. We were shown what we believed to be a particular female tabby.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

mum and dad were also viewed.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Another cop out reply from breeder,why rely on a vet to sex the cat?? They arnt breeders and get it wrong lots,i thinks its just easy to pass the book,anyway breeders reply below.


So sorry ****. I am mortified that this has happened and will be speaking to my vet I have had this happen once before but thankfully it was a kitten that I kept myself but vet insisted it was a male at 6 months old I went to get neutered and told he was in fact a she!! If you neuter (your older cat) at 6 months you shouldn't have any dominance issues! Has he bonded with your other cats?[


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Right, this is now getting silly. Do they have *anything* on paper which says they booked and were sold a female? This is misrepresentation pure and simple which is the one aspect of SoGA which applies to private sales.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Im not sure havoc.They are keeping this kitten now as they are in love with him now.

Hopefully this breeder is going to check the sexes properly from now on.

Iv been told that the breeder is going to sort out the paperwork to correct the sex of the kitten.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

This is disgusting, i would be absolutely fuming, the [people wanted a girl and got a boy, now the breeder isn't even offering to give them a girl, just asking if this boy has bonded with their other cat, 
She knew what she was doing allright, this breeder is BLAMING HER VET? rubbish
I am angry myself for these people, the breeder is just counting on the fact that they live a long way away, and will accept what she has fobbed off on them


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> Right, this is now getting silly. Do they have *anything* on paper which says they booked and were sold a female? This is misrepresentation pure and simple which is the one aspect of SoGA which applies to private sales.


A receipt? yes. Says female on receipt.Nothing about reserving the kitten though.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> This is disgusting, i would be absolutely fuming, the [people wanted a girl and got a boy, now the breeder isn't even offering to give them a girl, just asking if this boy has bonded with their other cat,
> She knew what she was doing allright, this breeder is BLAMING HER VET? rubbish
> I am angry myself for these people, the breeder is just counting on the fact that they live a long way away, *and will accept what she has fobbed off on them*


*

*I agree and thats whats happened i mean your going to fall in love with the kitten in 5 weeks arnt you.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Im not sure havoc.They are keeping this kitten now as they are in love with him now.
> 
> Hopefully this breeder is going to check the sexes properly from now on.
> 
> Iv been told that the breeder is going to sort out the paperwork to correct the sex of the kitten.


Just what that breeder was hoping would happen, i think she should give them a partial refund anyway


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> Just what that breeder was hoping would happen, i think she should give them a partial refund anyway


Breeder stated its happened before,so whats to say its not going to happen to another person.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Exactly, but she should know a male from a female, easy to blame her vet, she is the one responsible, silly woman,i think she knew what she was doing,and just hoped they would keep the kitten, maybe double booked females ,and found someone who lived too far away to go back easily
I know when kittens are very young it is sometimes difficult to tell which sex straight away, but at 12-13 weeks no, i don't think so


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> i think she knew what she was doing,and just hoped they would keep the kitten


Well it worked. It's probably worked before and it will work again.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> I went up once to visit before collecting. TBH they all looked very similar. All classic tabbies. We were shown what we believed to be a particular female tabby.


You would think, wouldn't you, with a litter all the same colour and pattern, that the breeder would have an ID system, so they knew which kitten was which? It's not rocket surgery. It's what most people do.


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