# What are your thoughts



## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

I posted another thread about my queen being at stud and as i said in that thread she was being aggressive towards the tom . Well on tuesday the aggression stopped and she was tollerating him during the day and then since tuesday evening the owner of the stud tom has seem them cuddled up together in the same bed whenever they have gone into the cattery but never seen any matings so what does everyone think , is this a sign that they could have mated .
We are going picking her up tonight and bringing her home .


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## 2flowers (Jan 24, 2010)

Hi David,

As I explained in your previous thread - I had a very similar situation with my girl, she too was friendly in the end with the stud but no mating was witnessed. A few breeders assured me at the time that some queens are *shy* and will not mate in the presence of the stud owner.

This must have been the case with my girl as she did indeed mate and pinked up very early 2 weeks later!  There was another queen in with a different stud and they literally mated straight after they were put together - so that made me more convinced we may need to go back...thankfully we didn't in the end.

Good luck & fingers x


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

It's possible they've mated, even likely, but who's to know? I hate coming across like I'm criticising, especially when I don't know the full facts, but this is why it's so important for stud owners to carry out supervised matings - this means that the stud and queen are only allowed access to one another when the stud owner is present to actually witness successful matings, or otherwise.

It's possible that you are not going to be asked for the stud fee (if indeed one is payable) until pregnancy has been confirmed in your queen. I'd hope that that is the case. Without supervised matings in a scenario where the stud owner does not know if matings have taken place, how is the queen's owner to know, if pregnancy does not ensue, whether she was (a) mated; (b) not mated (c) mated but failed to become pregnant (d) became pregnant but reabsorbed... etc etc. 

Separately, where a queen has unsupervised access to a stud over many days and no actual matings witnessed, you have a very big 'window' where her kittens could be due. The actual due date is a vital piece of information if, in the unfortunate event there are problems towards the end of her pregnancy - a scan and/or manual palpation of the queen's abdomen are limited in their efficiency; the vet would need to know her due date within a couple of days either way.

Sorry to get on my high horse, unsupervised matings are a bit of bugbear of mine and, on a few occasions, have caused me no end of problems in the past. Hope all goes well with your girl. I'd advise, with the utmost respect, collecting her asap for no other reason than you don't want too big a window of opportunity when her kittens might be be due.


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

We are collecting her this evening so will be home with us by 7 pm , if the tom has mated her im sure it can only have been between tuesday and today as before tuesday she was beating the crap out of the tom if he went near her and she wuld only let him anywhere near her from tuesday as i said so thats not to big of a window of knowing the dates really , i have marked down tuesday yesterday and today down on the callendar as possible days where she could have been mated , just incase she is pregnant . The owner of the stud tom isnt charging any stud fee this time because they have not seen any matings and said just to pay it next time she comes on call and is mated or if she turns out to be pregnant . Its just the not knowing if she has or if she hasnt , i guess its going to be a long 3 weeks to see if she pinks up or not .


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Apologies - I'm guilty of skim reading sometimes and missed, at the end, that you were collecting her tonight. Great that you have just several days where matings could have taken place and a good, trusting stud owner not to ask for the fee now.

lol @ 'beating the crap out of him'. That sounds very familiar; there's generally no doubt who wears the trousers between queen and stud


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> Apologies - I'm guilty of skim reading sometimes and missed, at the end, that you were collecting her tonight. Great that you have just several days where matings could have taken place and a good, trusting stud owner not to ask for the fee now.
> 
> lol @ 'beating the crap out of him'. That sounds very familiar; there's generally no doubt who wears the trousers between queen and stud


No appologies needed , i couldnt believe it when the stud owner told me how evil she was being towards the tom at first , she's such an angel at home well apart from when she's play fighting with us lol

Besides the pinking up what else couldnt i look for earlier that might be a sign of pregnancy ?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I've had a few girl's owners look on in horror and disbelief when they see how their otherwise angelic cat behaves with a stud 

Very early signs, before pinking up, can be difficult to spot - if they're present at all. I think I'm pretty observant with mine and, for the most part, I've had the luxury of being around them for most of day and I can't honestly say that I really notice much of anything for the first couple of weeks but then I have a breed who aren't particularly demonstrative in any shape or form!

If she's been in a very regular calling pattern (and calls occuring quite close together) then, to state the obvious, lack of her coming back into call within the next 2 weeks would, for me, be the most promising sign of pregnancy. And then you're in for 9 weeks of blessed peace


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Well she calls usually for around 6 days and then has been going off for about 8 days before starting again .


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> I've had a few girl's owners look on in horror and disbelief when they see how their otherwise angelic cat behaves with a stud
> 
> Very early signs, before pinking up, can be difficult to spot - if they're present at all. I think I'm pretty observant with mine and, for the most part, I've had the luxury of being around them for most of day and I can't honestly say that I really notice much of anything for the first couple of weeks but then I have a breed who aren't particularly demonstrative in any shape or form!
> 
> If she's been in a very regular calling pattern (and calls occuring quite close together) then, to state the obvious, lack of her coming back into call within the next 2 weeks would, for me, be the most promising sign of pregnancy. And then you're in for 9 weeks of blessed peace


It's worth noting that some queens noticeably pink up just before coming into call. Also if she hasn't taken this time, there is the possibility that she wont call again until spring. My girl seems to be finished calling for this year already!


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Aurelia said:


> It's worth noting that some queens noticeably pink up just before coming into call. Also if she hasn't taken this time, there is the possibility that she wont call again until spring. My girl seems to be finished calling for this year already!


Gosh, I wish mine would. She's so noisy at the moment!!!


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Dozymoo said:


> Gosh, I wish mine would. She's so noisy at the moment!!!


Sorry to hear that! 

I wonder though if she is done because she still has her hands full with the two girls we kept. She's still grooming them all the time and 'teaching' them, even now at 18 weeks. Such a good mummy.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Sorry to get on my high horse, unsupervised matings are a bit of bugbear of mine


Hope there's room on that horse for two  There's more than one reason for supervised matings. I've yet to take in a queen who's aggressive towards my boy, at least not except from within the queen's quarters. I don't let them together until the queen is ready. Try to just throw them in together and it's asking for trouble.


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> Sorry to hear that!
> 
> I wonder though if she is done because she still has her hands full with the two girls we kept. She's still grooming them all the time and 'teaching' them, even now at 18 weeks. Such a good mummy.


Sorry to go off topic, but Aurelia, which two did you keep? I was looking at your flikr yesterday! Itty and Chaz (Chas?) were my faves!!!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Sure, climb on up - just be warned, it a very big horse and when I'm spouting off and find I'm wrong, it's a long way to fall 

But yes, I too think it's asking for trouble in more ways than one (or a dozen) but I was getting on a criticism roll and thought I best stop!


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Chez87 said:


> Sorry to go off topic, but Aurelia, which two did you keep? I was looking at your flikr yesterday! Itty and Chaz (Chas?) were my faves!!!


We kept Itty and Tinks, Chaz went to live with my mentor (she will be a breeding Queen come late next year!) and is about to embark in the show world 
Thanks


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## sootisox (Apr 23, 2009)

I notice a definate change in my girls coats long before they pink up (Ragdolls) - keep a close eye on her, you too may notice his coat becoming "richer" in that it becomes more glossy and looks and feels more dense.

My girls generally seem to be very vocal with my stud and there is no doubt they've been mated - we manage to supervise 90% of the time as we have the luxury of having our stud here at home, however, we recently put our maiden queen in with him who then resolutely ignored him, no vocalising, no witnessed matings and they too were cuddled up and acting like "best friends forever" within a day (she was with him for two days). I removed her and had planned to repeat the mating on her next call as I was convinced she wasn't mated. She went on to give birth to 7 healthy babies 65 days later! 

Good luck and let us know how your girl gets on!


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Well we brought her home last night and she was so happy to be home as the owner of the stud tom again said she has been cuddled up with him all lovey but they have seen no matings but one thing i did notice when we brought her home if we stroke near her rear end she is still slightly paddling with her back legs so she obviously hadn't gone of call completely like the stud owner thought she might have done .


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## sootisox (Apr 23, 2009)

Some girls take a few days post mating to come off of call completely. I'm sure you'll know soon enough if she's pregnant or not by her calling patterns (or lack of them). 

Got everything crossed for you!


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

well she usually calls around every 8 days like clockwork and being an oriental she sure lets you all know when lol


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Shes now become extremely clingy since she came home doesnt want to be left alone and is eating and drinking lots very very puuuury bless her and now has a bit of a sore nose scratch type ( health section )


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

My girl dranks lots from day one. Thankfully we also have a boy here, I don't know how people can "miss matings"!! NOISY!


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## 2flowers (Jan 24, 2010)

The first sign Bibi had was drinking lots within a couple of days of coming home, I just knew from then...looks promising for your girl!


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Well its 9 days now since she came home , she is so clingy and drinking lots and her appetite seems to have increased so much , she is eating her Iam's complete full bowl as normal everyday and then her treats that she gets every morning and she is crying for more wet food than normal although im trying not to give into her wanting so much .


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Sounding good!!!


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Well its now been 14 days and this morning when we got up she had been a little bit sick on the dining room table so maybe this is a little morning sickness , i know when i used to breed dogs they often got morning sickness for a few days .


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Well she is now at day 19 and has very deep pink almost red nipples and they have gone from being pin head size to double their origional size so im guessing she is deffinitly pregnant .


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Just thought i would post a picture of the little lady we have been talking about , she is 23 days today and have no doubt that she is pregnant now , very deep pink nipples and she's even starting to bulge out at the sides a bit .

She likes to sit and watch what is going on when im on the laptop lol


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## sootisox (Apr 23, 2009)

She's beautiful! Congratulations on the pregnancy and lots of luck for a healthy delivery and healthy babies! Excellent news!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Congratulations on your forthcoming kittens :thumbup: Your girl is lovely We are on day 36 here and I have a plump little Siamese girl who spends most of her day asleep in her favourite chair or on my lap  She's started checking out the wardrobe too


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## Pippin (Aug 11, 2009)

Congratulations and good luck with your girl. Hope all goes well


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

lymorelynn said:


> Congratulations on your forthcoming kittens :thumbup: Your girl is lovely We are on day 36 here and I have a plump little Siamese girl who spends most of her day asleep in her favourite chair or on my lap  She's started checking out the wardrobe too


So what date is your girl due then , ours is due on the 10th November , she is just 4 weeks now but quite alarmingly she is showing already so wondering how many she has got in there , didnt expect her to start showing until atleast 5 weeks lol


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

David C said:


> So what date is your girl due then , ours is due on the 10th November , she is just 4 weeks now but quite alarmingly she is showing already so wondering how many she has got in there , didnt expect her to start showing until atleast 5 weeks lol


kittens are due here on 29th October approximately. I think being naturally slender (well typically skinny Siamese actually ) it's more obvious that she is pregnant. 
Good luck with your girl and hope you have a lovely litter of healthy kittens :thumbsup:


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Well we are 4 weeks today and just look how she is blossoming , wonder just how big she is going to be by the time she is 9 weeks .


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## sootisox (Apr 23, 2009)

She's looking fabulous! Nearly half way through already! No doubt she'll balloon from now onwards .... Can't wait to see her "full term"photos when she reaches that stage!


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

I just cant believe she is showing like this so soon , my Yorkies and Papillons never started showing they were in whelp much before the end of the 5th week , different species i know lol but its still a shock .


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

She's looking gorgeous David :thumbup: Out of interest what colour stud did you use? Is he also a Foreign White?


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

The stud is a seal point siamese .


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Oh lovely :thumbup: Siamese and orientals then - beautiful :thumbsup: I used a lilac point stud and am hoping for a lilac point girl for me to keep this time.


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Well she has seal choc , blue and fawn in her background and he has the same including cinnamon and red so im guessing we could get quite a dolly mixture of colours in the litter , we are really hoping for a black girl to keep .


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