# Today my dog was attacked and my hatred for irresponsible dog owners is @ a new level



## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

Ok so I'm gonna try not to make this too ranty but an incident happened today and I need to let it out.

So today my tiny toy poodle was attacked by a German shepherd cross and it absolutely terrified me.

Basically there is a huge group of dog owners who walk their dogs (mainly off lead) round a huge wooded area at the back of my house. I've walked Louie there everyday for over a year and Otis just a bit less. 

I walked my dogs on their lead down to a field which adjoins the woods, checked for any dogs I didn't know, didn't see any (all the dogs in this group are fine, never had any issues) so I let them off the lead as both of them love to run.

So I'm chatting to a woman in the group I see everyday and Louie is running around and Otis is digging about, next thing I hear shouting and screaming and I turn and see the woman running.

I've no idea what's going on then I hear a distinct yelp and horrendous screaming and I realise it's Otis. This huge dog is chasing him and snapping at him and he's biting his back end. He knocks Otis over and grabs Otis by the throat. By this stage the woman (who saw this quicker than me) has grabbed the dog by the neck and tried to yank him, it takes a few goes and she pulls him off and Otis runs off Into the woods. 

The dog is snapping and trying to get free to chase after him and she hits him on the head. All the while this is going on I've dropped my backpack and water bottle and ran over to this mess just as Otis is freed and runs off.

My first instinct is to find Otis and I chase after him In the woods but I can't find him anywhere. I was so angry but at that moment I was very upset and worried and honestly scared. I keep calling to him and eventually see his little head poking out a bush. He ran to me and had peed all over himself and was covered in dirt and was shaking. I checked him for bites or wounds but he was fine, just slobber on his throat (the woman yanked the dog off just in time)

Now... This whole thing alone made me angry. I am so ******* sick of people with aggressive dogs not putting them on leads. Or better yet a lead and muzzle. If your dog can't play nice with other dogs then You shouldn't have it running around free, in the one place in my city where dogs can be off leads. 

I walk back to the field carrying Otis as I've no idea where Louie is and I pass the woman.. The stupid irresponsible dog owner with said dog on a lead. She was at least 50 and this dog looked far too powerful for her it nearly dragged her over. I've never seen this woman before and hadn't noticed her sat on a bench at the back of the group and hadn't seen Her dog lay under the bench.

(I later learn this dog is known to be unpredictable and has attacked numerous dogs including some in the group. They have told her to leash it and she promises but it never happens. They feel sorry for her so don't push the matter. Everyone said this dog specifically went for Otis and "locked into him" and made a beeline for him.)

She turns around and says "well least he's on a lead now"
I am ******* furious and wanted to knock her teeth down her throat but I was too concerned to see where Louie was so I just said "your a ******* moron and if your dog so much as sniffs mine again I will beat you and him blind" dramatic but I was fuming.

Louie was fine.

The woman skulked off before I had chance to let her have it.

Now all of this is bad enough to me but it's the reaction of everyone that really sent me over the edge. Maybe you can tell me if I'm being over sensitive or whatever. 

Basically everyone other than The woman who helped me, who was the only one, and she was horrified by the whole thing and got upset. Everyone else were saying things like 
"dogs will be dogs" 
"It's normal for them to fight"
"It's natural for bigger dogs to attack smaller dogs"
"It's not like he has chunks taken out of him or anything"

To me it's not normal to let your dog maul another dog. Let's clarify this dog wasn't playing, he didn't just nip my dog or chase him he had his mouth around my dogs throat which meant Otis's head was nearly all in his mouth because he's so little 

The owner stood there and did nothing as did everyone else.

I mean am I In the ******* twilight zone or is this **** unacceptable? 


As far as I'm concerned this dog and any other dog like it should be on a lead at all times in public places. Even if my dog was on a lead he made a beeline for him and I probably would of got mauled as it's the kind of dog that would maul
Me to try and get at Otis if I picked him up.

I'm rambling now I'm just still so angry.

I thanked the woman profusely who helped me and told the other they were deluded assholes and went home.

Do you think people like these should put their dogs on leads??
In my opinion They shouldn't have ******* dogs In The first place



Just to add Otis is absolutely fine, he's been checked thoroughly.
He snuggled me and stayed close to me afterwards and I gave him cuddles and chicken and within an hour he was happily playing with his brother. <3


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## cava14 una (Oct 21, 2008)

I don't think it's the least bit acceptable I'd have been furious too. Hope you all feel better after a night's sleep and Otis is ok


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

I feel exactly the same! Whilst walking my own dogs and my friend's Shih Tzu, he was viciously attacked by an off lead GS. It threw him around like a rag doll and he was screaming. Its was just horrible. 

Such dogs should NEVER be allowed off lead, and the moron owners should be prosecuted and heavily fined!


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

> Such dogs should NEVER be allowed off lead, and the moron owners should be prosecuted and heavily fined!


I agree TOTALLY with Ang2, and I own a GSDx who would have done exactly what the attacking dog did to your poor dog; except that he would almost certainly have killed your dog.

I hope that you and your dog are over such a frightening ordeal as quickly as may be. I am very sorry that it happened. The owner of the attacking dog is a COMPLETE FOOL and shouldn't be trusted with a gerbil.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Totally unacceptable & so relesved your dogs are OK

Report the incident to your dog warden - even if you don't know who she is, they may already be aware of her / the dog

If they want contace info then they can co e to speak to the others who know her!

I don't know if it the same there, but here they can insist a dig us in lead / muzzled when out if they're known to be aggressive / difficult to handle


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

I think if the dog has done it before and she knows it can be aggressive then you are totally right to be :mad2::mad2: angry..

We have a few of those people here and they truely make my blood boil..


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

So sorry this happened. Hope Otis (and you) are not too badly affected by it.

I agree totally that this woman is a moron and the dog should NEVER be off lead in public.

I would definitely report it to the Dog Warden - hopefully they will be able to give her a warning and make her understand the gravity of the situation.

As for the other dog owners who thinks it's normal behaviour - then they truly need their heads examined. What total idiots!

There are an increasing number of DA dogs about it seems, which can co-exist happily if their owners take responsible steps to keep their dogs under control.

Each time another dog is attacked in this way, it potentially becomes a DA dog, and the problem continues to grow.

Makes by blood boil!!!!!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Report her to the dog warden. I'd be just as furious and my dog is DA! He is never out of control. I think you were justified in having a go, but you can't say people shouldn't have a dog like that. Mine wasn't DA til he was attacked himself, I didn't make him that way.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Unbelievable that a whole group of people accept this behaviour as just one of those things and dogs will be dogs.

The dog owner has a dog she struggles to cope with...so its easier to let it off lead?? Nuts.

We did have a dog that became DA many years ago whose behaviour escalated as time went on so I had him PTS. He wasn't born DA but also was attacked by 2 large dogs.

This problem of DA seems to be more prevalent during the warmer months too for some reason...or maybe its just more people are out with their dogs in warmer weather and thats why there is more of it.

Very scary situation for you, hope everything has calmed down a bit for you.


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

You are quite justified in being angry. I had similar happen to my last dog. It was a smaller breed than him but very aggressive. Poor Mac was very anxious and had many other issues and this didn't help matters. Sadly we had to have him put to sleep as he had so many issues that we could not fix despite our best efforts. Thank goodness no serious injuries were inflicted.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

OK so your angry, and some of the comments a little daft, but I do wish folk would take responsibility for their DA dogs. I mean said dog seemed alright on the lead- as in not lungeing and snarling etc, so she could have just kept him away from all the others.

Yes you were lucky that no chunks were taken out of your dog, but being pinned etc can be just as damaging, especially given the size difference.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> Unbelievable that a whole group of people accept this behaviour as just one of those things and dogs will be dogs.
> 
> The dog owner has a dog she struggles to cope with...so its easier to let it off lead?? Nuts.
> *
> ...


This is what happened with our bull terrier - she was attacked THREE times on one walk when she was 7 months old - on the third attacks, she turned round and knocked seven bells out of one of the dogs (it was a two-pronged attack by two fox terriers). We thought she was okay, but when we had her out some weeks later she attacked another dog which ran up to her, barking. Some weeks later, the same. If dogs are quiet and give her space to sniff, she is fine, but because of her unpredictability we now NEVER let her off lead (though she is not muzzled).

A dog attack is terrifying - most of it is noise, but that's frightening enough, but when it is a big powerful dog against a small one there is the potential for tragedy.

NO - I don't think that "dogs will be dogs" is an acceptable remark - these people are blasé because their dog wasn't the one attacked - well, they might be next time (and there WILL be a next time unless this stupid cow leashes her dog) - I wonder how laid back they will be then.

AND it's not only physical damage that is done - our sweet dog became untrustworthy because other dogs made her afraid: little Otis may now become snappy where he wasn't before, and provoke an attack which might otherwise not happen; he will certainly be fearful of other dogs for a while, and may not want to go on that particular walk.

Had this been the first time that dog attacked - fair enough, it's awful, but how could she know: But when it has done it before, and this attack was unprovoked (he appears to have regarded a smaller dog as prey) then there is no way that brute should have been off lead.

If I saw her with the dog off lead again I would kick it to hell and back if it came anywhere near me. I suggest that you carry an extra chain leash, folded in half (clasp through the top ring) with you. If the dog approaches, tell it "NO!" and lash at it - whether you hit it or not is immaterial - don't let the bloody thing near your dog. Shout for her to get her dog under control (don't scream, obviously). You can't even be sure your little ones will be safe if you pick them up because dogs often see a dog-in-arms as a target and will grab at them - plus if you have two dogs, they are harder to protect.

If you see her out anywhere, ask her loudly if she keeps that bloody vicious thing on a lead now - and tell everyone within earshot what happened. Don't be shy - shame her.

ANd as others have said - report her: dog warden, police - if you know where she lives, or can find out, all the better. The police will send someone round and give her a talking to and that itself might have an effect.

This is awful - I'm so sorry that you and you dog have had to go through it,


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Think its a little unfair to "shame" her if she does indeed keep said dog on a lead now!! Having a DA dog can be very isolating as it is. Obviously if you see it off lead then thats a different issue!!! Lets hope she has learnt her lesson, seems there were plenty of witnesses. 

I also would not advocate hitting the dog with a folded chain.........


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

You poor thing, TP; utterly terrifying.

I was walking in our local rec yesterday where many owners have their dogs off-lead. I've encountered two huge rotties and lots of staffies over the months I've lived here, and never had any problems. Until yesterday.......... although it was not, fortunately for me, either of my elderly standard poodles who were the target.

A small black staffy was being walked by a man in his twenties, when it suddenly charged after a very young black lab, being walked by a lady I was talking to. The young man did his best but was obviously terrified. Mercifully the owner of the lab was very calm (I would have been hysterical I'm afraid!). Eventually the young man grabbed the staffy and put it on a lead, saying, "You must stop doing that"!!!!!!!!!!

The lady and I examined her lab and, although very wet where it had been mouthed, there were no injuries.

Dog walking is supposed to be a pleasure: no wonder so many people just play with their dogs in the garden and never take them out


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Not acceptable and i would find out where this woman lives and report her to the dog warden for walking a dangerous dog off-lead. If nothing else than to get it on record so if the dog ever does take a chunk out of a dog there will be evidence to back up the fact that it's not a one off and the owner won't be able to wriggle out of it. 

Ask the lady who helped you to also report it.


The best reaction I ever got from an owner being blasé about their dog snapping at mine was when I grabbed their dog by the collar and took a photo of their dog tag. Then I said - right, now I know where you live so I can report you. Suddenly she was very apologetic, offering to pay any vet bills and put her dog straight on a lead.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> So I'm chatting to a woman in the group I see everyday and Louie is running around and Otis is digging about, next thing I hear shouting and screaming and I turn and see the woman running.
> 
> *So you were not paying attention to your dog?*
> 
> ...


So your dog is neither physically harmed nor mentally traumatised?

That is good.

Now whilst I do not for one moment condone the behaviour of the GSD (the owner should be aware of its tendency to play over boisterously and protect small dogs or have excellent control) I do think that you are over reacting.

Seems to be both owners in this scenario "could do better".

I can understand you were petrified as it must have appeared to be very scary and if I was in your position I would have been terrified as of course you have not seen this dog before and have no idea of its temperament.

One of the reasons I am extremely careful about which dogs mine run with.

One has to take into account the size of the dogs and the competency of owners.

There is, however, NOTHING in your post that would deem it reasonable to label it Dog Aggressive or Vicious. Out of control yes.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Got to admit that in his younger days, Alfie played very rough. 
I had to be careful who he played with, luckily he wasn't interested in dogs smaller than a ESS so I never had a situation like this, though I could quite see it happening with a dog like Alfie that did like littlies 

He did have a couple of dogs which liked to play rough too and they had a great time together rolling around and pulling at each others throat skin


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## wannabe dogowner (Feb 24, 2013)

Amber plays rough too, although can quickly change to being timid when play gets to over the top.

It's one of the many reasons I would never choose to allow her to romp with a large number of dogs. Or even go to a place where that number of dogs are all running free together tbh. Aside from anything else, it's just too easy, as you've found out OP, to miss a new dog coming in.
Besides, walks imo are for bonding and play with me, exercise for us both and maybe an occasional play with one or two suitable dogs for a few minutes if we meet a suitable play match. Even with these criteria, I watch their interactions like a hawk and intervene as soon as appropriate


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I have been at both ends of this sort of behaviour, dog attacked that became very DA.

Now, we have a Bullmastiff with such a good nature...really don't want her being attacked and her going the same way.

I would be more than devastated if my dogs started attcking anything....including other dogs...where is the fun in having a dog like that?

Playing rough is one thing......all out attack is totally different.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Totally unacceptable.

I hope Otis is ok now.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I don't think the dogs behaviour was acceptable at all, if it's doing this sort of thing regularly then it needs to be kept on a leash, not off leash being allowed to terrorise other dogs. I would be speaking to the dog warden about this personally. I really hope this doesn't have a bad effect on Otis.

However...mauled?? Your dog was terrified but uninjured, that is not a mauling. If this dog had really wanted to hurt him then it would have done so. Believe me, it does not take a prolonged attack for one dog to seriously hurt another.


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## zedder (Aug 21, 2013)

My dog has had a jrt have a go at it and he's a largish collie I told the owner next time it came near him I would kill it and you know what the **** put it on a lead then.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

It's certainly not acceptable, but I do wonder whether the GSD's behaviour was triggered by prey drive? 

I find it particularly concerning that people would threaten violence against another and/or the offending dog. If you come across the wrong person? Who lamps you one back? How is that going to help an already emotionally charged situation? 

Not sure where you live, but seen as your post was at 2am and you said this happened 'today' I'm assuming you might be in the US maybe? Can you report the owner to a local park ranger or something? I don't know how things work over there. But if the other owners are reluctant to say anything then you should!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Sarah1983 said:


> However...mauled?? Your dog was terrified but uninjured, that is not a mauling. If this dog had really wanted to hurt him then it would have done so. Believe me, it does not take a prolonged attack for one dog to seriously hurt another.


TBh if you are talking about a very tiny dog then no, the dog doesnt have to _want_ to really him hurt to do so. I know of cases where little dogs have been killed by being trodden on or slammed into by a much larger dog, and thats just by accident NM a dog that is actively chasing yours. Not to mention the fact that if your dog is running and yelping or screaming then it greatly increases the chances the other dog will see it as prey and snap...one single bite would be enough to kill it.
All these thoughts are running through your head when you are trying to rescue your dog from another if it is so much smaller. (and Ive had my legs ripped to bits by a dog when attempting to hold one of mine in the air so its fair to say that you can be mauled by a dog even by accident!).

I really feel for you OP. I think I would of been beyond terrified if that had happened to any of mine. Earlier in the week my little Chi was chased down by another dog and the owner just laughed and thought it was cute to see her so terrified and trying to run away. No wonder some dogs get so defensive.

I hope your little one is ok now and I agree with reporting this woman, she sounds to oblivious to amend her behaviour unless forced to!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I am so sorry this happened; very frightening for all concerned and I am very pleased that your dog is unhurt. Not read the other posts yet but perhaps this was predatory drift - one reason my large dogs do not get to play chase with small dogs.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> TBh if you are talking about a very tiny dog then no, the dog doesnt have to _want_ to really him hurt to do so. I know of cases where little dogs have been killed by being trodden on or slammed into by a much larger dog, and thats just by accident NM a dog that is actively chasing yours. Not to mention the fact that if your dog is running and yelping or screaming then it greatly increases the chances the other dog will see it as prey and snap...one single bite would be enough to kill it.
> All these thoughts are running through your head when you are trying to rescue your dog from another if it is so much smaller. (and Ive had my legs ripped to bits by a dog when attempting to hold one of mine in the air so its fair to say that you can be mauled by a dog even by accident!).


I never said one dog had to want to hurt another for it to happen  I knew a Peke who was killed when a much larger dog ran over him in play. I said that the OPs dog was not mauled and that if the big dog had wanted to hurt him then he would certainly have been hurt. It was not timely intervention that stopped Otis being harmed if his head was inside the other dogs mouth.

I'm not condoning the dogs behaviour, far from it. And as you say when it comes to tiny dogs it is very easy for them to be injured by large ones even by accident. Which is why I'm very careful of Spen around tiny dogs, can't say their owners generally share my concern however!


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm sorry you and your dog were both frightened, glad he is OK. I too would have been angry. I think though when you have got over the initial shock you need to have a think about how to protect Ollie in the future.

I would be cautious as to making generalizations about this dog and the incident (yes I know I wasn't there). You didn't see what caused the initial altercation. I too have a small dog I have to be aware her invitations to play with larger dogs can be irritating to them. A small dog jumping up and inviting play can set off a bigger dog to chase. My small dog running up to a large dog lying quietly and excessively inviting play and causing the dog to react, that would be my fault as much as the other owners. Not saying this is what happened but be cautious. Also watch Ollie carefully over the next few weeks he needs some confidence boosting to get over this.

My dog loves to play chase, however if a larger dog turns around and chases her back she often panics as your dog did and runs screaming in panic. We all need to be aware of our dogs at all times and control their interactions.

Hope Ollie continues with his good recovery.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

I dont agree with the gsd's behavior and agree that it should be kept on lead. 

However if his owner had not acted and been watching her dog it could have ended up a lot worse, at least she had eyes on him. 

You need to keep an eye on both of your dogs! Anything could happen to them from being attacked to someone just picking them up and walking off while your back is turned.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Sorry this happened and I'm glad Otis is okay.

I do struggle with post like this and the responses to them, both dogs were off lead, seems none of the owner were paying attention to their dogs, seemingly the "attacking" dogs owner was fast to intervene.

I also often wonder how so many people put up with their dogs being " attacked" by the same dog and never do anything about it, even though they all seem to know the dog and have been involved in "attacks"

If you let your dogs off in a large group and there are a mix of sizes and breeds this is bound to happen even if the dogs know each other and see each other every day.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Sorry this happened and I'm glad Otis is okay.
> 
> I do struggle with post like this and the responses to them, both dogs were off lead, seems none of the owner were paying attention to their dogs, seemingly the "attacking" dogs owner was fast to intervene.
> 
> ...


Agree with this completely Meezey.

Im so sorry this happened to you and your dog OP but reading your post just highlights why I hate large, social walking groups. I walk my dog to be with her, not to have a chinwag with other owners and not keep my eyes firmly on my dog and what her behaviour is, what other dogs are behaving like etc. Far too often with these social circles fights break out, nobody bothers controlling their dogs etc.


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## Randomly Set (Sep 22, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> "It's natural for bigger dogs to attack smaller dogs"
> "It's not like he has chunks taken out of him or anything"


Yes it is natural in the wild - however, dogs are now domesticated.

If they want to play that game, or ever said that to me (I'm 6ft 1) I'd ask if they wanted to play the same game (I'm soft as **** really, but if it was my dog, I would have a go).


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Sorry this happened and I'm glad Otis is okay.
> 
> I do struggle with post like this and the responses to them, both dogs were off lead, seems none of the owner were paying attention to their dogs, seemingly the "attacking" dogs owner was fast to intervene.
> 
> ...


I agree both dogs were off the lead, and dogs will either accept each other or not. Even with a DA on the lead Otis could have become injured if he ran up to the other dog. However Otis wouldn't have been able to run up to or anywhere near the dog if he had been kept on a lead, unfortunately in this case the other dog could have still got to Otis because its owner didn't have the dog on a lead.

It is because I have found so many owners will allow their reactive dog off lead that I choose to keep my dog on a lead, unlike Otis my dog will rise to an aggressive dog.

As Otis was not physically injured, I would not report the dog and/or owner. I will add though imo a responsible owner would keep a potentially reactive dog on a lead for the safety of their dog and other dogs.

I disagree with your last paragraph, it isn't a for gone conclusion that an incident will happen, it does increase the odds but I have been on forum walks with up to 25 dogs all different breeds, males and females, all different sizes. My own dog is Staffie all have been off lead without incident.

OP you need to regain Otis' confidence around other dogs. Try to let him meet as many dogs that he his used to as you can. I reinforce positive behaviour with treats (cheese). The last thing you need right now is for Otis to have any long term psychological problems from this bad and unacceptable experience.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Amelia66 said:


> However if his owner had not acted and been watching her dog it could have ended up a lot worse, at least she had eyes on him.


I might be mistaken but from the OP I understood that the lady who reacted quickly and dealt with the GSD was a different lady to the owner of the dog.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> So your dog is neither physically harmed nor mentally traumatised?
> 
> That is good.
> 
> ...


Woah woah woah

I haven't read the last page yet but couldn't let this comment go by and the fact 14 people likes this pile of crap.

I was talking to someone, had Louie in my eyeliner and Otis (5 seconds earlier) was sniffing at something nearby me.

Your telling me that every second on a dog walk you would have two dogs directly in your eyeline??

Sometimes Louie lags behind whilst he's marking and I turn round to check on him or he chases a squirrel into a bush and I don't see him for a few seconds.
Sometimes Otis lags behind whilst he chooses a stick and again I turn to see where he is.

Otis was out of my sight for mere seconds. This whole this happened in minutes so don't you dare insinuate I don't look out for my dogs.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Randomly Set said:


> Yes it is natural in the wild - however, dogs are now domesticated.
> 
> If they want to play that game, or ever said that to me (I'm 6ft 1) I'd ask if they wanted to play the same game (I'm soft as **** really, but if it was my dog, I would have a go).


Then if you feel that way you shouldn't allow you small dog to play off lead in an area with large dogs also off lead, and it is called predatory drift and most domesticated dogs are capable of it...


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> So your dog is neither physically harmed nor mentally traumatised?
> 
> That is good.
> 
> ...


Why would her dog need vet treatment, Otis didn't even defend himself, he's a ******* toy poodle.

And my dog was checked thoroughly and is fine.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

sskmick said:


> I disagree with your last paragraph, it isn't a for gone conclusion that an incident will happen, it does increase the odds but I have been on forum walks with up to 25 dogs all different breeds, males and females, all different sizes. My own dog is Staffie all have been off lead without incident.


Is this something you do every day, every week, every months? I would place bets that if it's something that is done on a regular basis that something will happen.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Why would her dog need vet treatment, Otis *didn't even defend himself, he's a ******* toy poodle.*
> 
> And my dog was checked thoroughly and is fine.


all dogs can defend themselves toy poodle or not.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Woah woah woah
> 
> I haven't read the last page yet but couldn't let this comment go by and the fact 14 people likes this pile of crap.
> 
> ...


Oh get off your high horse and get over yourself.

It is normal human behaviour to blame others for their own failings, you made a mistake (as we all do) but demonising another dog and blowing the whole event WAY out of proportion only undermines your credibility.

If I had a very small dog it would NOT be in this situation.


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## liamajhons (Apr 28, 2014)

You are right to be angry and first of all I am glad to hear little Otis is fine.. people with aggressive dogs should keep them on a lead. If it was the first time her dog behaved like that you can understand (obviously not a good experience for the dog being attacked and the owner in this case yourself). But if a dog has a history of attacking other dogs or people then there is no 2 ways about it as it should be leashed and if the owner can not take care of it then taken away from the owner and given to someone who can take care of it.

Glad alls well that ends well and Otis is safe and sound


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Why would her dog need vet treatment, Otis didn't even defend himself, he's a ******* toy poodle.
> 
> And my dog was checked thoroughly and is fine.


I really do not understand this post.

I already acknowledged your post that there was NO damage to your dog, therefore your dog was NOT attacked and NOT mauled.

End of.

Really you are quite hysterical.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Amelia66 said:


> all dogs can defend themselves toy poodle or not.


toy poodle v largish GSD x?toy poodle can defend itself?


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> So your dog is neither physically harmed nor mentally traumatised?
> 
> That is good.
> 
> ...


And no I don't agree it's normal for a dog to attack a smaller dog and for the owner TO DO NOTHING ABOUT IT

She didn't restrain her dog or chase after it or anything and if you think that's ok then well there's no reasoning with you but if everyone thought like you then more dogs would be killed as no one would intervene

Also the woman I was talking to was facing the other way so saw the attack sooner and so acted sooner. We were also not stood close and she was nearer hence why she got to the dog quicker than I did.

Otis was out of my eyeline for seconds. It happened in minutes. If you saying that by me chatting to someone means it's my own fault for not watching my dog then wtf?? I like chatting to other dog walkers and such, sorry I don't treat dog walking like a serious military operation and don't speak to anyone

Also I'm not saying the dog owner shouldn't own a DA dog or that anyone shouldn't own one, I meant if you can't handle a DA dog or keep it on a lead then you shouldn't have one.

I meet loads of DA dogs on leads and the owners are lovely and I take responsibility for my dogs and make sure I keep them away.

Also there's people making out it's my own fault because my dogs weren't on leads, this is the ONlY place they can go without leads and my dogs are absolutely fine, why should my dogs have to be kept on leads just because some moron isn't intelligent and responsible enough to know that a DA dog should be on a lead whilst around other dogs. It's not rocket science.

Also what do you mean this dog doesn't seem vicious or aggressive it had my dog by the throat!!!! And he was snarling and biting when he was restrained which I already said so what the **** are you even talking about

How is that not aggressive??

You have the exact same attitude as the people at the field "oh well your dogs ok so what's the problem" the problem is Otis could of been traumatised or worse killed at the hands of an irresponsible owner who should of had the dog on a lead and if everyone thought the same way as you and them then more DA dogs would be running loose attacked whoever they wanted and everyone would be like "oh well that's what dogs do"

Such a stupid mentally arrrggghhhhh


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> I really do not understand this post.
> 
> I already acknowledged your post that there was NO damage to your dog, therefore your dog was NOT attacked and NOT mauled.
> 
> ...


I was clam until I read your stupid post.

How do you know there was no damage mentally?

Otis is already a timid dog this could make him fearful which could make him aggressive.

Also the only reason he didn't have his throat chomped on was as the dog was about to bite down on his tiny little head the awesome superhero woman had him by the scruff and yanked him off

Had she of not been there and I not of been able to get there in time and only people like you of been there and done nothing e would of bitten down on him

You think a GSD biting down on a toy poodles throat and head would of done no damage?


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

kittih said:


> I might be mistaken but from the OP I understood that the lady who reacted quickly and dealt with the GSD was a different lady to the owner of the dog.


Yes the woman who grabbed the dog off Otis wasn't me as she was nearer to the scene than I was

We were talking from afar and as I got to the mess Otis was running off and I went after him

Had I of been nearer I would of grabbed the dog off Otis at all costs.

Otis was out of my eyeline for seconds and that's all it took. The awesome woman just so happened to be facing the right way at the right time

The owner of the DA dog stood by and just watched she did nothing


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> And no I don't agree it's normal for a dog to attack a smaller dog and for the owner TO DO NOTHING ABOUT IT
> 
> She didn't restrain her dog or chase after it or anything and if you think that's ok then well there's no reasoning with you but if everyone thought like you then more dogs would be killed as no one would intervene
> 
> ...


It's not necessarily true that the other dog was DA. Here is a little explanation on Predatory Drift, which this incident sounds more like IMO - Predatory Drift - What is it? How to avoid it!

Does not make it ok at all, and your dog could have been seriously injured had no one intervened but you may find it of interest.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ToyPoodle said:


> I was clam until I read your stupid post.
> 
> How do you know there was no damage mentally?
> 
> ...


Dogs do have an amazing ability to control the power of their jaws. Mine will grab each other by the the throat in play and leave nothing but slobber and Kilo used to course Rudi when play got out of hand until he learnt not to and actually leave no marks or once or twice a small scratch. Unacceptable for Kilo to course but it's that prey drive kicking in again - I suspect faced with a dog like yours predatory drift would occur with Kilo so he does not play chase with small dogs and I do not let my two dogs play with a single dog unless I know them well as that could also be a recipe for disaster as I suspect Rudi would follow suit if Kilo got too over the top and excited.

I think it's worth all dog owners being aware of what predatory drift is - I can see when Kilo switches from play into "prey". Owners of small dogs need to be as aware as owners of big prey - driven dogs so that they can also spot the signs I think and avoid potentially disastrous situations.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

Picklelily said:


> I'm sorry you and your dog were both frightened, glad he is OK. I too would have been angry. I think though when you have got over the initial shock you need to have a think about how to protect Ollie in the future.
> 
> I would be cautious as to making generalizations about this dog and the incident (yes I know I wasn't there). You didn't see what caused the initial altercation. I too have a small dog I have to be aware her invitations to play with larger dogs can be irritating to them. A small dog jumping up and inviting play can set off a bigger dog to chase. My small dog running up to a large dog lying quietly and excessively inviting play and causing the dog to react, that would be my fault as much as the other owners. Not saying this is what happened but be cautious. Also watch Ollie carefully over the next few weeks he needs some confidence boosting to get over this.
> 
> ...


Otis does not go up to other dogs and invite play.
In general he isn't interested in other dogs and never has been.
Louie does and when I think he's bordering on pestering I pull him away.
Otis was sniffing around at sticks 5 seconds before he was attacked which is when I last had my eyes fully on him


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> And no I don't agree it's normal for a dog to attack a smaller dog and for the owner TO DO NOTHING ABOUT IT
> 
> *Your dog was NOT attacked, it was chased. If you do not understand the difference I would suggest you read up on body language and go to some classes. You may learn something.*
> 
> ...


Really does it ever enter your mind to close your mouth and open your eyes (and ears) to actually READ what people have posted?

Once more I have not stated anywhere that there is not a problem, there is, with you and the dog owner.

For both of you having insufficient awareness and control over your dogs.

You really need to stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

YOUR DOG WAS NOT PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY HARMED (according to your original post).


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Dogless said:


> Dogs do have an amazing ability to control the power of their jaws. Mine will grab each other by the the throat in play and leave nothing but slobber and Kilo used to course Rudi when play got out of hand until he learnt not to and actually leave no marks or once or twice a small scratch. Unacceptable for Kilo to course but it's that prey drive kicking in again - I suspect faced with a dog like yours predatory drift would occur with Kilo so he does not play chase with small dogs and I do not let my two dogs play with a single dog unless I know them well as that could also be a recipe for disaster as I suspect Rudi would follow suit if Kilo got too over the top and excited.
> 
> I think it's worth all dog owners being aware of what predatory drift is - I can see when Kilo switches from play into "prey". Owners of small dogs need to be as aware as owners of big prey - driven dogs so that they can also spot the signs I think and avoid potentially disastrous situations.


Quite agree - I'm careful who I let my small Cairn play with. We have to know the large dog well. My other dog is generally always on the lead around other dogs anyhow.

The responsibility lies on both side.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> It's not necessarily true that the other dog was DA. Here is a little explanation on Predatory Drift, which this incident sounds more like IMO - Predatory Drift - What is it? How to avoid it!
> 
> Does not make it ok at all, and your dog could have been seriously injured had no one intervened but you may find it of interest.


Your right I was say it was a prey thing however when I spoke to the others in the group he has actually bitten other dogs, some as large as collies and whippets so I don't see how that could be a prey thing because they are as big if not bigger than this dog


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2014)

ToyPoodle, Im so sorry you endured that frightening incident, but I have to agree, I think youre overreacting.

If the dog has wanted to injure your toy poodle, trust me, he would have done so, and no superhero woman (or man) could have stopped him by grabbing him by the scruff of the neck. 
By your own account, your dog had nothing but slobber on him. Absolutely yes, the mixed breed dogs behavior is totally inappropriate and the owner is irresponsible for not having him under control. However, the dog did not maul your dog, nor does it sound like he ever intended to. Many a dog plays by biting heads and throats. Or it could have been a fair correction, you werent watching so you dont know what led up to the incident. 

I would look at this as a lesson learned, try to be more vigilant when out and about with your dog. You cannot control the behavior of others and their dogs, so it is up to you to be proactive and do all that you can to keep your own dogs safe.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh dear me.....

Firstly I am sorry that both dogs were put into this situation...but thankfully Otis turned out uninjured.......which leads me nicely to this...

Your dog was not mauled, your dog was not savaged, you dog was NOT injured...if that GSD meant to do Otis any harm then he WOULD have left at least a few puncture wounds... In your own words you say "just slobber on his throat"

Come on now...do you really think that one woman holding the GSD around the neck would stop any damage?
If you truly believe that then I guess you have not been witness to a real fight 

I have to say also...if you are the sort of person that threatens "your a ******* moron and if your dog so much as sniffs mine again I will beat you and him blind" this sort of thing then quite frankly I am not surprised that the owner didn't jump up to be at the front of the que when helping...

You said you did not notice the woman and her dog at the back of the group...YOU did not pay enough attention to what was going on in a group walk....

Obviously I do not think this sort of behaviour is acceptable by any stretch of the imagination BUT I think you are getting a little angry over what was 1. an accident (you only have hearsay that this dog has "attacked" others and 2. something that could have been avoided had you have been paying enough attention....


Sit down..have a cuppa and think about this rationally....for your dogs sake.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> I was clam until I read your stupid post.
> 
> *Unfortunately you do not clam up enough.*
> 
> ...


Seldom have I seen such unwarranted hysteria accompanied by a total lack of self awareness.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> Really does it ever enter your mind to close your mouth and open your eyes (and ears) to actually READ what people have posted?
> 
> Once more I have not stated anywhere that there is not a problem, there is, with you and the dog owner.
> 
> ...


Lol I can't stand you.

Look we won't agree.

Otis wasn't bitten because the dog was pulled away just as e had him in his mouth.

This dog has bitten other dogs so by you saying he isn't aggressive... Well I disagree.

I've no idea if Otis has been affected mentally because he hadn't been out since and hasn't met another dog other than his brother

If he cowers or gets scared when I next take him out then I will know won't i

I can't look left and right simultaneously and if you can then You are a mutant 
Louie was left 
Otis was right
I looked right. Otis was sniffing sticks
I looked left Louie was trolling around
I hear screaming
I look right Otis is running

If you Can teach me to have one eye left and one eye right AT THE EXACT SAMe TIME then teach me oh great one

I get aggressive on here because I can't believe some of the replies!!!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> Your right I was say it was a prey thing however when I spoke to the others in the group he has actually bitten other dogs, some as large as collies and whippets so I don't see how that could be a prey thing because they are as big if not bigger than this dog


Predatory Drift can result in injuries if the dog is not stopped, so biting other dogs still could be a result of that behaviour. Has even resulted in fatalities in some cases.

I feel for you, I really do. My mum witnessed something similar with my sister's little dog ( although the dog that grabbed my sister's was only a small JRT itself ) but it really shook my mum up badly, and these days she has a serious and intense fear of off lead dogs. My sister's dog was fine physically, but he was screaming and trying to escape during the whole incident.

Still, thankfully Otis is ok and you can take appropriate steps in avoiding that dog at all costs in the future. I'd personally avoid the area and/or choose random walking times in the future to minimise the chances of bumping into them again.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Your right I was say it was a prey thing however when I spoke to the others in the group he has actually bitten other dogs, some as large as collies and whippets so I don't see how that could be a prey thing because they are as big if not bigger than this dog


Have you never watched any programmes which involve predators bringing down prey much larger than themselves.

Think more, observe more, read more and scream and shout less.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

cloversmum said:


> Quite agree - I'm careful who I let my small Cairn play with. We have to know the large dog well. My other dog is generally always on the lead around other dogs anyhow.
> 
> The responsibility lies on both side.


Yes; the amount of small dog owners who get annoyed with me when I won't let mine play is unreal, insisting their 3kg teacup whatever likes playing with big dogs and can hold their own. Even an accidental trampling by one of mine could seriously injure, never mind predatory drift!!


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

I want to say would you be so hysterical and angry had the other dog been a toy poodle itself .... a smaller dog? The reason you seem so het up is because the dog was bigger, but probably exhibiting the same behavior smaller dogs do you just find it more threatening is because the dog is so much bigger than yours.



lilythepink said:


> toy poodle v largish GSD x?toy poodle can defend itself?


i never said that he would win, but yes all dogs have a means of defending themselves.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> Seldom have I seen such unwarranted hysteria accompanied by a total lack of self awareness.


Otis isn't scared of other dogs he just had no real interest in them

Louie loves to chase and play whilst Otis prefers to do his own thing

By timid I meant if a big dog comes upto him he will just sit there and then roll over. Timid was the wrong word I wi say submissive instead

He is fine with this group and even plays with a pug and terrier from the group. He just doesn't really interact with the bigger dogs.

I don't force him to hang out with this group I walked past them, and chatted from afar the woman who I see everyday

I won't reply to you anymore because we aren't going to agree

Thanks to everyone else 
I'm going to be much more careful and am gonna keep them on flexi leads for a while

Xx


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Lol I can't stand you.
> 
> Look we won't agree.
> 
> ...


You cannot believe them because a) you believe you are totally without blame b) you are totally right and c) you refuse to accept any responsibility for this event.

You took a timid dog to a large group of dogs and walkers (none of whom have apparently taken any corrective or preventive action against the GSD owner) and you failed to take care of him properly.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> I'm going to be much more careful and am gonna keep them on flexi leads for a while
> 
> Xx


Thank God for that!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Please ToyPoodle read and pay heed to smokeybear's advice; although you may not like what you are reading she really does know her stuff and it will help you avoid any nasty incidents in the future :thumbup:.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

Can someone please tell me how I go about deleting my account?


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> Otis does not go up to other dogs and invite play.
> In general he isn't interested in other dogs and never has been.
> Louie does and when I think he's bordering on pestering I pull him away.
> Otis was sniffing around at sticks 5 seconds before he was attacked which is when I last had my eyes fully on him


To be fair this wasn't the impression I gained from your original post. Glad you had your eye on him :thumbup:


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> Thank God for that!


Go **** yourself

If I met you in real life and you spoke to
Me the way you do on here behind a screen

I'd break your face


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ToyPoodle said:


> Can someone please tell me how I go about deleting my account?


You can just log off and never log in again if that's what you want. I'd urge you to stick around - this place is friendly and informative really, just the odd heated debate!!

Otherwise PM petforums.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> Oh get off your high horse and get over yourself.
> 
> It is normal human behaviour to blame others for their own failings, you made a mistake (as we all do) but demonising another dog and blowing the whole event WAY out of proportion only undermines your credibility.
> 
> If I had a very small dog it would NOT be in this situation.


Sometimes it's very difficult to not suddenly find yourself in a situation, particularly if you have an elderly dog that cannot be hurried out of the way 

I've been somewhere that is open fields with good visibility only to have someones dog come into sight and reach us before the owner ever comes into view. Happened this morning in fact with a womans two dogs heading for the river


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Can someone please tell me how I go about deleting my account?


If you feel the need, then this is from the FAQ section:



> Account Removal
> If you wish to be removed from the forum and your account deleted, please email or pm a moderator or the administrator. They will delete you account from our database. Any posts which you have created will be set to 'Guest' so they are anonnymous. Your posts will NOT be deleted.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Go **** yourself
> 
> If I met you in real life and you spoke to
> Me the way you do on here behind a screen
> ...


That is the diffrence between you and me.

I can argue a case without resorting to obscenities and physical violence.

And of course the person who would end up in court would be you.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

ToyPoodle said:


> Go **** yourself
> 
> If I met you in real life and you spoke to
> Me the way you do on here behind a screen
> ...


nice


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Amelia66 said:


> I want to say would you be so hysterical and angry had the other dog been a toy poodle itself .... a smaller dog? The reason you seem so het up is because the dog was bigger, but probably exhibiting the same behavior smaller dogs do you just find it more threatening is because the dog is so much bigger than yours.
> 
> i never said that he would win, but yes all dogs have a means of defending themselves.


To be honest, I'd find it pretty threatening if a GSD started chasing and grabbing my small terrier around the neck too. Size does a play a factor into how you would feel about what might be a innocent encounter with similarly matched dogs. Hence why it's correct what others are saying about large dogs playing with smaller ones. Fine on lead, but I'd exercise caution with a large dog off lead with a smaller one unless you know the dogs well etc.

My Cash is already showing prey like tendencies and I understand fully why the small dog owners at the training class decided to pop their dogs back on lead when they thought Cash was getting to riled up. The size difference between the smallest ( a Toy Poodle funnily enough ) and Cash is enough to make small dog owners nervous.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

cloversmum said:


> nice


Delightful, in fact the reason for the alleged comments of the other dog walkers become easier to understand and sympathise with.............


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

Dogless said:


> You can just log off and never log in again if that's what you want. I'd urge you to stick around - this place is friendly and informative really, just the odd heated debate!!
> 
> Otherwise PM petforums.


I've never sent a PM before and am on my phone and I can't see how I do this

Can you tell me how to send a PM?


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2014)

Dogless said:


> Yes; the amount of small dog owners who get annoyed with me when I won't let mine play is unreal, insisting their 3kg teacup whatever likes playing with big dogs and can hold their own. Even an accidental trampling by one of mine could seriously injure, never mind predatory drift!!


There are exactly 2 small dogs my two are allowed to play with, and even that play is obsessively supervised by me and the other owner, and kept at low arousal levels. Both these little dogs live with big dogs and have excellent dog skills and their owners are friends of mine, both dog trainers and very savvy of dog body language. Any other small dog is simply off limits to my two, but then Im totally antisocial anyway, and mine dont play with ANY dog unless I know that dog and owner very well and the dog and mine are a good match. Just not worth it... Like you said, one misplaced paw can cause serious injury to a smaller dog. Hell, Breezs tail alone can leave bruises!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ToyPoodle said:


> I've never sent a PM before and am on my phone and I can't see how I do this
> 
> Can you tell me how to send a PM?


Click on the profile of whoever you want to PM and select "private message". It's easier to just log off and never come on again TBH.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

oops double post.

Will put though the nature of the internet is that you will receive views opposite to your own as well as agreeing with your own.

Whilst opposite views can be upsetting, use them to think about and evaluate your own view, in some cases it might lead you to affirm your own views in other you might change them.

There is however no excuse for abusive rudeness, this is a nice forum you will receive great assistance here but no approval of bad language.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> Can someone please tell me how I go about deleting my account?


You could just log off and never log in anymore


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

ToyPoodle said:


> Go **** yourself
> 
> If I met you in real life and you spoke to
> Me the way you do on here behind a screen
> ...


Wow!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

kittih said:


> I might be mistaken but from the OP I understood that the lady who reacted quickly and dealt with the GSD was a different lady to the owner of the dog.


That was my impression, too.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> If I met you in real life and you spoke to
> Me the way you do on here behind a screen


If you've been around here long enough you'll notice smokeybear has an inimitable style. As do I :scared: In the end it doesn't matter whether you will hug if you ever meet. What matters is whether the dog related advice is sound.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Haven't read the whole thread yet so sorry if I'm repeating what others have said. PLEASE report this to the dog warden.

It may be that if just one person - you! - has the common sense to make a formal report, this woman will start acting responsibly and keep her dog on the lead.

Last year when another dog ran over and then pinned my Dex and locked his teeth around Dex's neck, the fool of an owner insisted 'This is normal.' I emailed him the pics of the damage to my dog's neck and he stopped saying that.

Please do report this.

Really hope you and your boy are OK.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

ToyPoodle said:


> I've never sent a PM before and am on my phone and I can't see how I do this
> 
> Can you tell me how to send a PM?


Why the obsession with deleting the account? As Dogless says, just log off and don't come back if you feel that way. There's no need to announce to the world that you are deleting your account.

Saying that though, this is just one heated debate, on an emotive subject for yourself. If you calm down and come back another day, I'm sure you'll find that you still get on with the vast majority of the forum. This forum is amazingly good at forgetting and moving on.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

TBH if a dog chases yours down and grabs it's neck and MEANS IT you get something like this.and no, my big fella didn't fight back either and the dog who attacked him was very much smaller than him.







All neatly sutured in those photos but you can see what it may have looked like first and can see all the bruising. There were also injuries to Kilo's stifle and shoulder (needed suturing too) where the dog had tried to gain purchase plus thick leather collar bore a lot of bite marks as did his harness.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> Go **** yourself
> 
> If I met you in real life and you spoke to
> Me the way you do on here behind a screen
> ...


I don't think I've laughed so much in my life this is your second thread, and in both you have hardly been charming, a you are perfect and your dogs are ( from your previous thread) yet you've a mouth like a fish wives and I'm an Army Brat and from NI and that's saying something if I find it that way......

You my dear have a bad attitude, smokeybear is well smokeybear, we ain't all fluffy and cute, but while the information might given with a certain edge and smokeybears info is usually spot on, there are certainly not threats and gutter mouth...


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Dogless said:


> Dogs do have an amazing ability to control the power of their jaws. Mine will grab each other by the the throat in play and leave nothing but slobber and Kilo used to course Rudi when play got out of hand until he learnt not to and actually leave no marks or once or twice a small scratch. Unacceptable for Kilo to course but it's that prey drive kicking in again - I suspect faced with a dog like yours predatory drift would occur with Kilo so he does not play chase with small dogs and I do not let my two dogs play with a single dog unless I know them well as that could also be a recipe for disaster as I suspect Rudi would follow suit if Kilo got too over the top and excited.
> 
> I think it's worth all dog owners being aware of what predatory drift is - *I can see when Kilo switches from play into "prey".* Owners of small dogs need to be as aware as owners of big prey - driven dogs so that they can also spot the signs I think and avoid potentially disastrous situations.


I agree the change is noticeable, bit sometimes is it incredibly rapid. As you say, it is good to learn to spot the signs, and if you have a dog you know can slip from "play" to "prey", make sure it doesn't get the chance.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Dogless said:


> TBH if a dog chases yours down and grabs it's neck and MEANS IT you get something like this.and no, my big fella didn't fight back either and the dog who attacked him was very much smaller than him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nasty! I hope the other dog's owner picked up the bill.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I just knew this would kick off the moment the OP came back..... lunch time chuckles.... thankies!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

lostbear said:


> Nasty! I hope the other dog's owner picked up the bill.


Yep I made certain of it!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

diefenbaker said:


> If you've been around here long enough you'll notice smokeybear has an* inimitable *style. As do I :scared: In the end it doesn't matter whether you will hug if you ever meet. What matters is whether the dog related advice is sound.


This is a euphemism. We are all aware of Smokey's "style"


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

To be honest, while the OP hasn't conducted themselves in a pleasant manner in most of their posts ( and the post about threatening violence against smokeybear is totally not on ), I'm not sure why some are finding it funny? The OP is obviously clearly upset in what she/he deemed to be an aggressive act. Not all of us are as clued up on dog to dog communication skills or body language and I'm sure witnessing your dog running off screaming and wet itself with fear is enough to make anyone angry and a bit irrational.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Alice Childress said:


> Why the obsession with deleting the account? As Dogless says, just log off and don't come back if you feel that way. There's no need to announce to the world that you are deleting your account.


I always find it really funny when people do that:laugh: You'd expect adult people on forums behave like... well adults? Yet sometimes discussions and debates remind me of play grounds and there's always that one kid who suddenly feels the need to dramatically announce that "he's not playing anymore" because he's not getting his way. What is the need to officially ask how to delete the account, create threads to ask about deleting accounts, create rude threads in order to get banned or even just simply write a post officially letting everyone know that they will be leaving the forum. Just log off and not come back. It's pretty easy.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> To be honest, while the OP hasn't conducted themselves in a pleasant manner in most of their posts ( and the post about threatening violence against smokeybear is totally not on ), I'm not sure why some are finding it funny? The OP is obviously clearly upset in what she/he deemed to be an aggressive act. Not all of us are as clued up on dog to dog communication skills or body language and I'm sure witnessing your dog running off screaming and wet itself with fear *is enough to make anyone angry and a bit irrational*.


Yes, however most adults are able to start thinking clearly when faced with other opinions and advice.


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## feathered bird lover (May 23, 2011)

my dog was once attacked by the smallest jr iv'e ever came across. 

this happened a few years ago now. 

i had my dog on lead, as always when i didn't know dog/dogs approaching us, put him on lead, even at a distance, just incase, trying to be a careful owner. the wee dog came running up to my dog and i turned and walked in opposite direction. the wee dog still came up to mine and by this time the owner had came up beside me. he stated his dog was fine with others and could we walk together. i then stated, whilst still walking on, that i didn't know the dog and could he put it on lead and we could walk with our dogs on opposite sides, at least in that way i would feel better, as by this time wee dog was growling and tormenting my dog. it wasn't wanting to play as i could see. i tried to walk away as i could see the owner of wee dog wasn't going to listen to me, also trying to stay calm. as i turned to get away from wee dog and owner, the wee dog went under my dogs belly and proceeded to take a lump out of my dog!!! this all happened within 5 mins.

i checked my dog over and phoned my OH to come and collect us and take us to vets. he owner was shouting that this was the first time his dog had ever did this and how he was so sorry, then picked up his still growling dog and walked off. didn't put it on lead just walked away fast whilst holding wee dog!!! my dog had stitches and jags and meds. 

my dog didn't react which was lucky as he was bigger and far stroner and i wouldn't have liked anything to have happened to wee dog, it was the stupid owner i would say was at fault.

i'm glad your dog is ok. ttfn


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> To be honest, I'd find it pretty threatening if a GSD started chasing and grabbing my small terrier around the neck too. Size does a play a factor into how you would feel about what might be a innocent encounter with similarly matched dogs. Hence why it's correct what others are saying about large dogs playing with smaller ones. Fine on lead, but I'd exercise caution with a large dog off lead with a smaller one unless you know the dogs well etc.
> 
> My Cash is already showing prey like tendencies and I understand fully why the small dog owners at the training class decided to pop their dogs back on lead when they thought Cash was getting to riled up. The size difference between the smallest ( a Toy Poodle funnily enough ) and Cash is enough to make small dog owners nervous.


i understand that what i ment was something less serious can be taken to be alot worse when it is a big dog on a small dog.

I agree that very small and very large dogs should not play together off lead as accidents can happen very easily.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Sadly, pig headedness is often mildly amusing.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> To be honest, while the OP hasn't conducted themselves in a pleasant manner in most of their posts ( and the post about threatening violence against smokeybear is totally not on ), I'm not sure why some are finding it funny? The OP is obviously clearly upset in what she/he deemed to be an aggressive act. Not all of us are as clued up on dog to dog communication skills or body language and I'm sure witnessing your dog running off screaming and wet itself with fear is enough to make anyone angry and a bit irrational.


Just a good example of how we all react to things differently. People laugh when uncomfortable, not just when amused. People become irrational and angry when really theyre afraid. In the end though you hope to be able to reflect and learn. Hopefully, despite the OPs current demeanor, they will be able to reflect and learn from this incident and figure out how better to protect their dogs in the future.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> To be honest, while the OP hasn't conducted themselves in a pleasant manner in most of their posts ( and the post about threatening violence against smokeybear is totally not on ), I'm not sure why some are finding it funny? The OP is obviously clearly upset in what she/he deemed to be an aggressive act. Not all of us are as clued up on dog to dog communication skills or body language and I'm sure witnessing your dog running off screaming and wet itself with fear is enough to make anyone angry and a bit irrational.


I do agree with what you are saying here But My dog was attacked by a gsd and their owner did pull them off and this was how she looked after veterinary attention.










And the physical injury was only the beginning of a very long journey.

Do you have a pic of dex's terrible injuries OBAYL? never mind I found it


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Dogloverlou said:


> My Cash is already showing prey like tendencies and I understand fully why the small dog owners at the training class decided to pop their dogs back on lead when they thought Cash was getting to riled up. The size difference between the smallest ( a Toy Poodle funnily enough ) and Cash is enough to make small dog owners nervous.


Quite funny at my training class. The trainers actually seperated Adam from the 2 big sighthounds coz they were worried, even though everyone was sat perfectly calm and happy!LOL Although they also explained predatory drift to the sighthound owners which was a good thing! 
TBH though Toypoodle I think giving up now might be a good idea. You will always be the histrionic toy dog owner and your dog will always be badly behaved/in the wrong/defective somehow. Sadly this forum isnt very small breed friendly and is generally very cliquey and not terribly helpful. At least thats how Ive found it over the years.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

The OP has had a nasty shock and was probably hoping for some empathy and support from her fellow dog lovers...And maybe later if she reads over the posts again she will see that she did get some 

OP - Nobody here is going to pretend that SMOKEY BEAR is pleasant. She isn't. 

But don't let that stop you from sticking around and getting lots of good advice, most of which will be delivered far more nicely.

The predatory drift thing is really interesting to me, I often watch big dogs and small dogs playing together and on one or two occasions have wondered if *maybe* the bigger dog if chasing is getting a tad too intense.... 

To be honest I only know about predatory drift because of this forum (ironically, I think it was SMOKEY BEAR who first posted about it). Most of the dog owners I meet are not aware of it and seem to find it hysterical when a big dog and small dog are playing 'chase'.

OP you've had a horrible shock, do stick around......


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2014)

catz4m8z said:


> Quite funny at my training class. The trainers actually seperated Adam from the 2 big sighthounds coz they were worried, even though everyone was sat perfectly calm and happy!LOL Although they also explained predatory drift to the sighthound owners which was a good thing!
> TBH though Toypoodle I think giving up now might be a good idea. You will always be the histrionic toy dog owner and your dog will always be badly behaved/in the wrong/defective somehow. *Sadly this forum isnt very small breed friendly* and is generally very cliquey and not terribly helpful. At least thats how Ive found it over the years.


You think? I havent found that at all. Sorry you feel that way, but maybe there is reflection opportunity in there for you too?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> . You will always be the histrionic toy dog owner and your dog will always be badly behaved/in the wrong/defective somehow. Sadly this forum isnt very small breed friendly and is generally very cliquey and not terribly helpful. At least thats how Ive found it over the years.


I have not found this forum to be a) not very small breed friendly (size is irrelevant ALL dogs of ALL breeds or NO breeds deserve the same care, respect and control) b) or cliquey and c) the advice on this forum has been found to be "terribly" helpful to some (according the messages I get).

A forum is just that, place where all opinions are aired not all are palative however.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> Quite funny at my training class. The trainers actually seperated Adam from the 2 big sighthounds coz they were worried, even though everyone was sat perfectly calm and happy!LOL Although they also explained predatory drift to the sighthound owners which was a good thing!
> TBH though Toypoodle I think giving up now might be a good idea. You will always be the histrionic toy dog owner and your dog will always be badly behaved/in the wrong/defective somehow. *Sadly this forum isnt very small breed friendly and is generally very cliquey and not terribly helpful. At least thats how Ive found it over the years.:*(


Oh I have small dogs and have found the forum very supportive to me and to my dogs.. like over the last couple of days with Daisy been ill. i know i can post my worries and get support.

But it's hard to support a member when they are threatening to smash another members face in


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

moonviolet said:


> I do agree with what you are saying here But My dog was attacked by a gsd and their owner did pull them off and this was how she looked after veterinary attention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is horrible - and as you say, there are mental wounds which take longer to heal - some never do.

(BTW pulling a dog off when it has a mouthful of flesh is one of the worst things you can do, even though every instinct tells you to do it. Choking or otherwise blocking the airway of the aggressor is preferable, as it makes it release in order to breathe.)


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> The OP has had a nasty shock and was probably hoping for some empathy and support from her fellow dog lovers...And maybe later if she reads over the posts again she will see that she did get some
> 
> OP - Nobody here is going to pretend that SMOKEY BEAR is pleasant. She isn't.
> 
> ...


I guess it depends on your intepretation of pleasant.

I do not use abusive language or threaten physical violence.

I think you for one were very grateful for some of my advice many moons ago when you were struggling with Dexter. 

Neither am I pink and fluffy. 

And yes it was me that posted about Predatory Drift. A concept that is debated by many of us.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

ouesi said:


> maybe there is reflection opportunity in there for you too?


and not just for me I think!?



smokeybear said:


> I have not found this forum to be a) not very small breed friendly (size is irrelevant ALL dogs of ALL breeds or NO breeds deserve the same care, respect and control) b) or cliquey and c) the advice on this forum has been found to be "terribly" helpful to some (according the messages I get).


Well, we all have different experiences dont we? And TBF the cliqueyness probably isnt as noticeable if you are inside one and looking out! It doesnt overly bother me, its not like forums are 'normal' human interaction anyways!LOL
I just go to breed specific forums for real advice and hang out here coz its pretty active!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> To be honest, while the OP hasn't conducted themselves in a pleasant manner in most of their posts ( and the post about threatening violence against smokeybear is totally not on ), I'm not sure why some are finding it funny? The OP is obviously clearly upset in what she/he deemed to be an aggressive act. Not all of us are as clued up on dog to dog communication skills or body language and I'm sure witnessing your dog running off screaming and wet itself with fear is enough to make anyone angry and a bit irrational.


I find it funny that someone who also on their previous thread, was rude and arrogant is accusing others of the same, but with a threat of violence this time, it's not as if they have been polite on the thread, so the irony of it amused me...

No one had or was belittling what happened to the dog, no one said it wasn't upsetting, but to threaten people isn't on no matter how upset they are....


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

lostbear said:


> That is horrible - and as you say, there are mental wounds which take longer to heal - some never do.
> 
> (BTW pulling a dog off when it has a mouthful of flesh is one of the worst things you can do, even though every instinct tells you to do it. Choking or otherwise blocking the airway of the aggressor is preferable, as it makes it release in order to breathe.)


Totally agree unfortunately i was preventing his other dog getting in on the action when the owner arrived and jut yanked his dog off with brute force.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Just a good example of how we all react to things differently. People laugh when uncomfortable, not just when amused. People become irrational and angry when really theyre afraid. In the end though you hope to be able to reflect and learn. *Hopefully, despite the OPs current demeanor, they will be able to reflect and learn from this incident and figure out how better to protect their dogs in the future.*


Exactly. Making a joke out of the whole thing and berating the OP for feelings they genuinely felt at the time isn't going to be of further help or advice though and is just pointless IMO.



moonviolet said:


> I do agree with what you are saying here But My dog was attacked by a gsd and their owner did pull them off and this was how she looked after veterinary attention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch! I understand the difference between a 'real' attack or not, but not everyone does. The OP was clearly frightened something more serious was going on. Hopefully as Ouesi pointed out they can now go away and reflect on the whole situation and take appropriate steps in avoiding a similar situation happening again.


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

As someone new to this forum I am extremely disappointed by the tone this thread has developed. Of course the OP should not have threatened another member but, goodness me, some people certainly gave her plenty of provocation! 

I'd be curious to know if all those who responded negatively to the OP are owners of large/assertive breeds.....


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> Sadly this forum isnt very small breed friendly and is generally very cliquey and not terribly helpful. At least thats how Ive found it over the years.


Well this thread was going downhill fast but now the brakes have failed completely. Buckle up it's going to get bumpy. Although I must admit I am in a clique of one.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

diefenbaker said:


> Well this thread was going downhill fast but now the brakes have failed completely. Buckle up it's going to get bumpy. Although I must admit I am in a clique of one.


I'm in one of 3, that's me, myself and I.................


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> and not just for me I think!?
> 
> Well, we all have different experiences dont we? And TBF the cliqueyness probably isnt as noticeable if you are inside one and looking out! It doesnt overly bother me, its not like forums are 'normal' human interaction anyways!LOL
> I just go to breed specific forums for real advice and hang out here coz its pretty active!


I do not think anyone could accuse me of being a member of a clique, except a clique of one (is that possible) 

Yes you will never get any advice of any worth outside a breed specific forum. 

All the experts are there.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Exactly. Making a joke out of the whole thing and berating the OP for feelings they genuinely felt at the time isn't going to be of further help or advice though and is just pointless IMO.
> 
> Ouch! I understand the difference between a 'real' attack or not, but not everyone does. The OP was clearly frightened something more serious was going on. Hopefully as Ouesi pointed out they can now go away and reflect on the whole situation and take appropriate steps in avoiding a similar situation happening again.


Absolutely in the moment it would have felt and seemed like a real attack, but hopefully they will step away and calm down and see it for what it really was do some research and walk their dogs in a more informed manner.

I will admit i find it a offensive when people talk up their "attacks" I honestly wish i didn't know what it was really like and wouldn't wish the experience of dealing with the aftermath on anyone, not even someone who insists on tempting fate.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> As someone new to this forum I am extremely disappointed by the tone this thread has developed. Of course the OP should not have threatened another member but, goodness me, some people certainly gave her plenty of provocation!
> 
> I'd be curious to know if all those who responded negatively to the OP are owners of large/assertive breeds.....


I love it when people use the "reasoning" of "he/she/I was provoked", always one to pull out of the drawer when someone is unable to exert self control. 

I find it extremely worrying that someone can be provoked to threaten physical violence due to the use of non abusive language.

I am not sure what a negative response consists of, perhaps you could elaborate.

And what is a large assertive breed (in your opinion).

Until we know the criteria, we cannot give an accurate answer.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I do feel more than a little sorry for the OP. I'm sorry this frightening experience happened and glad your dog is OK although I probably would have taken him to the vet myself for a check over as not all damage is visible on the surface.

However I think we all need to be careful about using terms like attack and maul every time an incident like this occurs. As others have said if this dog had really meant to hurt your dog it would have. Not everyone who comes on here has the same level of experience or understanding of these situations and whilst very useful advice has been given sometimes its how its given. Is there really a need for it to be so combative? Those with great wisdom and experience and advice to offer can it not be couched in slightly more sympathetic terms?

OP that does not however excuse your response to smokeybear, don't cut off your nose to spite your face please.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> As someone new to this forum I am extremely disappointed by the tone this thread has developed. Of course the OP should not have threatened another member but, goodness me, some people certainly gave her plenty of provocation!
> 
> I'd be curious to know if all those who responded negatively to the OP are owners of large/assertive breeds.....


I own two of a large breed…one is not very assertive as can be evidenced by the pictures of one of his attacks where he didn't attempt to fight back and the other I currently call Billy Big Balls as he is an obnoxious teenager.

So…I guess that just makes me…..confused :scared:.

The size of the dog doesn't make it more likely to attack or less likely to be attacked.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

diefenbaker said:


> Well this thread was going downhill fast but now the brakes have failed completely. Buckle up it's going to get bumpy. Although I must admit I am in a clique of one.


well, I dont know about you but Ive got my big girl pants on! I can take it!!:001_tt2:



smokeybear said:


> Yes you will never get any advice of any worth outside a breed specific forum.
> All the experts are there.


Not all advice...its just sometimes better! Plus you def find more kindred spirits dont you?



moonviolet said:


> I will admit i find it a offensive when people talk up their "attacks" I honestly wish i didn't know what it was really like and wouldn't wish the experience of dealing with the aftermath on anyone, not even someone who insists on tempting fate.


That was horrible what happened to your poor dog MV. I hope I never go through anything like that. So far mine have just been involved in handbags, or been bulldozed or chased but its still been enough to make them extremely wary of other dogs esp large or bouncy ones.
Sometimes you just wish you could have a personal forcefield around you and your dogs then you could watch all the bullies and 'only wants to play' types from a safe distance!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

moonviolet said:


> Totally agree unfortunately i was preventing his other dog getting in on the action when the owner arrived and jut yanked his dog off with brute force.


Multi-dog attacks are a bugger! You do what you can. I wasn't meaning to criticise (hope it didn't come across like that) - the comment was a general one.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> As someone new to this forum I am extremely disappointed by the tone this thread has developed. Of course the OP should not have threatened another member but, goodness me, some people certainly gave her plenty of provocation!
> 
> I'd be curious to know if all those who responded negatively to the OP are owners of large/assertive breeds.....


I have big dogs and a mini dakkie. I don't want my dogs being attacked nor do I want them attacking and feel if my dogs attacked any body else's dog it would be my fault for not keeping them under proper control.I have a large assertive breed...Bullmastiff...but my posts weren't negative to OP.

I sympathise with OP, I understand only too well how upsetting it is to have a dog attacked.my elderly parents dakki x JRT was viciously attacked by a pit bull a couple of years ago, the very thought of another dog attacking him is still very much in my mothers mind. I can also understand OP still being razzed up and upset from the incident....and I sympathise there aswell but threatening somebody on a forum is going too far and not necessary.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> As someone new to this forum I am extremely disappointed by the tone this thread has developed. Of course the OP should not have threatened another member but, goodness me, some people certainly gave her plenty of provocation!
> 
> I'd be curious to know if all those who responded negatively to the OP are owners of large/assertive breeds.....


I've liked your post because I do agree that some of the posts have come across as almost goading of the OP and I don't think there was any need for that. However

I do own large and what you might think of as assertive breeds plus one with high prey drive. I used to have a rottie who was DA and walked on a lead and muzzled and can't begin to tell you how many issues we had with other dogs rushing up to her - one in particular a JRT came a long way to her on more than one occasion and lept up biting her fur around her throat, as she tried to shake him off he was hanging on to her throat snarling and the owner thought it was funny.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

moonviolet said:


> Absolutely in the moment it would have felt and seemed like a real attack, but hopefully they will step away and calm down and see it for what it really was do some research and walk their dogs in a more informed manner.
> 
> *I will admit i find it a offensive when people talk up their "attacks"* I honestly wish i didn't know what it was really like and wouldn't wish the experience of dealing with the aftermath on anyone, not even someone who insists on tempting fate.


I know exactly what you mean. There has been many times I've felt frustrated with someone's definition of an 'attack' and found myself embroiled in a full on heated debate about what constitutes a 'real' attack. But I do try my best to remember that not everyone understands dogs the way most of us here do. The OP hasn't conducted themselves well, and the threats of violence in their opening post was what made me comment in the first place to be honest. The dog was clearly terrified and the OP was clearly upset. Hopefully they're not usually as defensive and/or impolite in their everyday life. But forums can often bring out the worst in you. Been there, done that


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

moonviolet said:


> Absolutely in the moment it would have felt and seemed like a real attack, but hopefully they will step away and calm down and see it for what it really was do some research and walk their dogs in a more informed manner.
> 
> I will admit i find it a offensive when people talk up their "attacks" I honestly wish i didn't know what it was really like and wouldn't wish the experience of dealing with the aftermath on anyone, not even someone who insists on tempting fate.


I admit I have a short temper however my aggressiveness on here is from genuine shock at supposed dog lovers reactions to things.

I was very upset and shocked (I understand it wasn't as bad as dogs being bitten or seriously mauled and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was playing it up)
I was genuinely horrified and have never witnessed anything Like it

I am quite aware other people have different opinions and expected some critics but for god sake do you have to be so Mean about it?

How about "I'm Sorry to to hear about Otis i hope he's ok but maybe you should consider keeping a closer eye on him or keeping him on a lead" that is helpful critical advice and I wouldn't blow up to that

But pointing the finger at someone who's clearly upset and listing everything they did wrong, saying it's my fault, saying the dog isn't aggressive and so on and so on, doesn't seem like helpful dog advice to me

I reacted to someone being plain mean and rude 
If you have no helpful advice to give me and just insist on pointing the finger then just don't comment on my posts as I'm going to react in a negative way

All I wanted was a bit of support and all smokeybear gave me was criticism after criticism which a lot of the time didn't even make sense (each eye in each direction..)

I agree with the person who said the bigger dog breeds gang up on the small dog breeds on here

People saying I only reacted the way I did because it was a big dog.

If a yorkie had attacked Otis I would still of been shocked and scared but no I wouldn't of been as worried because I think a GSD could do more damage and I think that is a fair assumption to make

It doesn't mean I hate big breeds or I pick on them but if someone made me choose between getting bit by a big dog or a little dog id choose the little one any day of the week

I've never been so infuriated by a person so much in my life
Smokeybear to me you really are just a bad person to have on here especially to newbs because your comments are just so pointless and mean and would either A) make people feel intimidated or bad about their questions or posts or B) react aggressively because the person feels picked on by your accusing bolded replies


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I do feel more than a little sorry for the OP. I'm sorry this frightening experience happened and glad your dog is OK although I probably would have taken him to the vet myself for a check over as not all damage is visible on the surface.
> 
> However I think we all need to be careful about using terms like attack and maul every time an incident like this occurs. As others have said if this dog had really meant to hurt your dog it would have. Not everyone who comes on here has the same level of experience or understanding of these situations and whilst very useful advice has been given sometimes its how its given. Is there really a need for it to be so combative? Those with great wisdom and experience and advice to offer can it not be couched in slightly more sympathetic terms?
> 
> OP that does not however excuse your response to smokeybear, don't cut off your nose to spite your face please.


My elderly parents JRT x mini dakkie was attacked and mauled by a deaf pitbull type dog. Our dog was on a lead, other dog wasn't. Other dog saw my dad walking his dog on a main road. Other dog was across the road, saw my dad and his dog, ran across the road and grabbed my dads dog pinning it to the ground. Then proceeded to shake and grab a better hold of my dad's dog. 
Dad's dog screamed and then shut his eyes and gave up. My dad thought his dog was dead. 
Passers by stopped him to help...they could not get the other dog off. A passing policeman stopped and kicked the dog...still would not let go.Dogs owners couldn't get it off so they left the dog to it and went home.Other dog simply let go...maybe it thought my dad's dog was dead...it went home and the policeman followed it.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ToyPoodle said:


> Can someone please tell me how I go about deleting my account?


Send a private message to either Mark (petforum) or Tashi and they will delete it for you. Please collect the language on the way out won't you?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> I've never been so infuriated by a person so much in my life
> Smokeybear to me you really are just a bad person to have on here especially to newbs because your comments are just so pointless and mean and would either A) make people feel intimidated or bad about their questions or posts or B) react aggressively because the person feels picked on by your accusing bolded replies


Wooooooooooo hold on, again you are upset, but like it or not some people are blunt to the point of rude, it's not just to you, or newbies.. The person you find so offensive is also the person who give out valuable & knowledgeable advice to others and helps and has helped A LOT of members.

YOU are the only person who has control over you temper and feelings, you can't blame anyone else for how you feel, your the only person who can make themselves feel something....


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

newfiesmum said:


> Send a private message to either Mark (petforum) or Tashi and they will delete it for you. Please collect the language on the way out won't you?


Funny how most people are saying that smokeybear doesn't come across as nice and such and you all are ok with her talking to new people like crap but should that new person defend themselves or get annoyed then they are being aggressive

And then if that person is then continuously goaded over and over again and over reacts that person should leave the forum for being threatening

I don't take back what I said because if someone was behaving in a spiteful mean way to me in real life I would sock her one on the face

She acts like an ******* to new people and it's accepted and tolerated

But anyone else steps out of line and it's off with their head

It's like being back at school
There's quite a few bullies on here and I have no problem threatening bullies


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> I admit I have a short temper however my aggressiveness on here is from genuine shock at supposed dog lovers reactions to things.
> 
> I was very upset and shocked (I understand it wasn't as bad as dogs being bitten or seriously mauled and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was playing it up)
> I was genuinely horrified and have never witnessed anything Like it
> ...


Oh dear.... once you are on a forum you get to know folks "style" who you may want to avoid, and who despite everything actually talks a whole lotta sense, and maybe has the balls to say what you were thinking.

Personal slatings are never going to go down well, and you have to accept its not a 100% "there there" type of forum. Everyone on a forum is entitled to an opinion, 9/10 it may differ from yours, and thats OK, and kinda the point of forums- but there is never a need to make it personal, threaten violence- to be honest it just makes you look a bit like an immature thug!!


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

Meezey said:


> Wooooooooooo hold on, again you are upset, but like it or not some people are blunt to the point of rude, it's not just to you, or newbies.. The person you find so offensive is also the person who give out valuable & knowledgeable advice to others and helps and has helped A LOT of members.
> 
> YOU are the only person who has control over you temper and feelings, you can't blame anyone else for how you feel, your the only person who can make themselves feel something....


No I don't think that a rude person should be tolerated or listened to

I have no respect for people who behave rudely or mean for no real reason especially to a newb who's upset

I loose control of my feelings because I came here because I had no one to talk to and coming here and asking for help and support is a hard thing for me to do and to have some crappy person pointing the finger and being rude and mean riles me up

It's like kicking a snake over and over and then acting shock and surprised when it bites you 
Don't pick on someone and not expect them to retaliate

Funny how I didn't reply aggressively to anyone else who gave decent advice

Hmmmm massive coincidence maybe?


----------



## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

ToyPoodle said:


> I agree with the person who said the bigger dog breeds gang up on the small dog breeds on here


My dogs are a medium sized breed, where does that leave me?!


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ToyPoodle said:


> Funny how most people are saying that smokeybear doesn't come across as nice and such and you all are ok with her talking to new people like crap but should that new person defend themselves or get annoyed then they are being aggressive
> 
> And then if that person is then continuously goaded over and over again and over reacts that person should leave the forum for being threatening
> 
> ...


The point is she doesn't use bad language to get her points across; that is against forum rules. You asked how to delete your account; I told you. Sorry if I couldn't resist adding my own little bit at the end. Children read this forum as well so we do not want bad language. Simple enough. You are welcome to stay if you can keep your tongue under control.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Im never getting into one of those elusive cliques now....but I kinda agree with the OP!:thumbup:
Its amazing how often people refuse to comment on medical or serious behaviourial issues because they dont have all the facts and yet are 100% they know exactly what happened in a situation they were'nt even present for!
Ive been afflicted with serious pottymouth after my dogs have been attacked too! The problem is until its over you really dont know if your dog is going to be killed or injured so the adrenaline amps up and you do sometimes unload it all over the offending owner!
But its not cool to be rude or offensive to someone on the forum. It will detract from any point you are making and make you seem childish as well. If you know you are not going to 'win' (and when you know you know!) then the best thing to do is just bow out gracefully....and draw insulting cartoons of forum members that they cant see! bwa ha ha!!!:thumbup:


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> Oh dear.... once you are on a forum you get to know folks "style" who you may want to avoid, and who despite everything actually talks a whole lotta sense, and maybe has the balls to say what you were thinking.
> 
> Personal slatings are never going to go down well, and you have to accept its not a 100% "there there" type of forum. Everyone on a forum is entitled to an opinion, 9/10 it may differ from yours, and thats OK, and kinda the point of forums- but there is never a need to make it personal, threaten violence- to be honest it just makes you look a bit like an immature thug!!


So to be a tolerated bully here you must be PASSiVE aggressive but not verbally threatening

Ok that's good to know
Great system you got going here


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> Funny how I didn't reply aggressively to anyone else who gave decent advice


Or didn't act aggressively to anyone who didn't say things you didn't want to hear?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> So to be a tolerated bully here you must be PASSiVE aggressive but not verbally threatening
> 
> Ok that's good to know
> Great system you got going here


I think a cup of tea and a couple of chocolate biscuits would go down well for you right now OP...calm down and come back later.

There are some people on here I find abrasive...but not abusive or nasty to me in a personal way...


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> I reacted to someone being plain mean and rude
> 
> *I was not mean, and I was not rude, read, REALLY read my posts and you will see particularly in my first one I empathised with your feelings. *
> 
> ...


My comments were neither pointless nor mean, but they did not support your point of view.

You are entitled to have an opinion and post just as I am.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I don't think you're helping yourself with yet more threats of violence ToyPoodle. 

I'd leave it be. Hopefully in amongst all the negativity you've received some helpful advice and won't run into this particular dog again. Glad Otis is ok, and hopefully he won't be mentally scarred by the incident.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> So to be a tolerated bully here you must be PASSiVE aggressive but not verbally threatening
> 
> Ok that's good to know
> Great system you got going here


I dont believe Smokey is passive aggressive, or a bully so er no. :mad2:


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> Funny how most people are saying that smokeybear doesn't come across as nice and such and you all are ok with her *talking to new people like crap* but should that new person *defend themselves or get annoyed* then they are being aggressive
> 
> As has been said before it's not only newbies. She never uses any insults or swear words to get her point across. I don't understand why people on here always mention bullying and cliques as soon as some members don't agree with something being said and aren't fluffy about it?
> 
> ...


Good day to you too!:thumbup:


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

catz4m8z said:


> Im never getting into one of those elusive cliques now....but I kinda agree with the OP!:thumbup:
> Its amazing how often people refuse to comment on medical or serious behaviourial issues because they dont have all the facts and yet are 100% they know exactly what happened in a situation they were'nt even present for!
> Ive been afflicted with serious pottymouth after my dogs have been attacked too! The problem is until its over you really dont know if your dog is going to be killed or injured so the adrenaline amps up and you do sometimes unload it all over the offending owner!
> But its not cool to be rude or offensive to someone on the forum. It will detract from any point you are making and make you seem childish as well. If you know you are not going to 'win' (and when you know you know!) then the best thing to do is just bow out gracefully....and draw insulting cartoons of forum members that they cant see! bwa ha ha!!!:thumbup:


The thing is everyone ignores when I reply nicely 
They also ignore her 1..2..3 goading and rude replies before I make a stupid threatening post

Everyone just focuses on that it's not like she replies to me and I say I'm gonna mash her face in

I reply as calmly as I can and give more info, more insight on the situation and she just throws it back in my face with critical accusations that half the time don't even make sense

Or people reply things that clearly show they didn't even read the post properly

And I'm just like arrrrggghhhhh

It's like a kid punching a kid in the face repeatedly and then when the kid retaliates everyone just focusing on him and how bad a child he is

Doesn't excuse the kid hitting but everyone ignoring the ******* cause


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Jazmine said:


> My dogs are a medium sized breed, where does that leave me?!


We live in purgatory ... too big to be small too small to be big


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> I think a cup of tea and a couple of chocolate biscuits would go down well for you right now OP...calm down and come back later.
> 
> There are some people on here I find abrasive...but not abusive or nasty to me in a personal way...


I've had someone on here say that they hope I never become a mum or never have kids (along those lines) when I can't have kids in the first place so yeah I've had personal attacks on here. Very ******* personal

So sorry if it makes me prickly towards an idiot and I'm pretty sure it was s smokeybear or meezey and they always do this when I post something

They are the only two that always give overly critical advice and never say anything intelligent or helpful
They ruin it for the people who give good advice


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Funny how most people are saying that smokeybear doesn't come across as nice and such and you all are ok with her talking to new people like crap but should that new person defend themselves or get annoyed then they are being aggressive
> 
> *The point is I have not spoken to you or anyone else in the manner you describe.
> 
> ...


Nobody has bullied you, the only person guilty of bullying behaviour is you.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Alice Childress said:


> Why the obsession with deleting the account? As Dogless says, just log off and don't come back if you feel that way. There's no need to announce to the world that you are deleting your account.
> 
> Saying that though, this is just one heated debate, on an emotive subject for yourself. If you calm down and come back another day, I'm sure you'll find that you still get on with the vast majority of the forum. *This forum is amazingly good at forgetting and moving on.*



Sorry I beg to differ. I have witnessed certain members of PF desperate to jump on your next post months after you have had a 'disagreement' or debate and to keep referring back to previous posts, even quoting and highlighting them to refuel a heated debate. Small minded and cliquey - definitely! In fact I knew exactly who the usual suspects were going to be on here arguing with the OP, all ganging together to give each other petty little likes and reps.
Yes PF is a wealth of useful info but also has a bullying clique at its centre - although those same people will now laugh it off.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> The thing is everyone ignores when I reply nicely
> They also ignore her 1..2..3 goading and rude replies before I make a stupid threatening post
> 
> Everyone just focuses on that it's not like she replies to me and I say I'm gonna mash her face in
> ...


You really do feel sorry for yourself don't you, I am sorry that you feel so very unhappy with so many things in your life.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Lexiedhb said:


> I dont believe Smokey is passive aggressive, or a bully so er no. :mad2:


God no! Def not passive! :lol:
Although lets not knock passive aggression, its alot of fun.



ToyPoodle said:


> The thing is everyone ignores when I reply nicely
> I reply as calmly as I can and give more info, more insight on the situation and she just throws it back in my face with critical accusations that half the time don't even make sense
> 
> Or people reply things that clearly show they didn't even read the post properly


and this is when we walk away from the thread. After being patronised up the wazoo and made to feel like an idiot and treated like a defective moron who should be nowhere near a dog...this is when you either snap or give up!
You snapped! Point is that the villagers will get the torches and pitchforks out and demand your head on a stick.
If you cant walk away then dont stay, simple! 
(TBF most threads are alot less contentious and you will find you get along with most people most of the time. Just learn when to walk away!).


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

cbrookman said:


> [/U][/B]
> Sorry I beg to differ. I have witnessed certain members of PF desperate to jump on your next post months after you have had a 'disagreement' or debate and to keep referring back to previous posts, even quoting and highlighting them to refuel a heated debate. Small minded and cliquey - definitely! In fact I knew exactly who the usual suspects were going to be on here arguing with the OP, all ganging together to give each other petty little likes and reps.
> Yes PF is a wealth of useful info but also has a bullying clique at its centre - although those same people will now laugh it off.


This is so so so true


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> I've had someone on here say that they hope I never become a mum or never have kids (along those lines) when I can't have kids in the first place so yeah I've had personal attacks on here. Very ******* personal
> 
> So sorry if it makes me prickly towards an idiot and I'm pretty sure it was s smokeybear or meezey and they always do this when I post something
> 
> ...


I think you need to back up your accusation with some actual facts

Please point to the post where I have hoped you never become a mother or have children when you have said that you cannot have children in the first place.

As you have, at the time of this post, only posted 59 posts, this response should not be too difficult for you to find.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> You really do feel sorry for yourself don't you, I am sorry that you feel so very unhappy with so many things in your life.


I may be threatening but why are you always so personal?

I have a very happy life though on here I only ever seem to rant and get annoyed I'm actually a very nice person

That subject is sensitive to me and I think it would be to anyone who is in the same boat as me

How does that mean I feel sorry for myself


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

cbrookman said:


> [/U][/B]
> Sorry I beg to differ. I have witnessed certain members of PF desperate to jump on your next post months after you have had a 'disagreement' or debate and to keep referring back to previous posts, even quoting and highlighting them to refuel a heated debate. Small minded and cliquey - definitely! In fact I knew exactly who the usual suspects were going to be on here arguing with the OP, all ganging together to give each other petty little likes and reps.
> Yes PF is a wealth of useful info but also has a bullying clique at its centre - although those same people will now laugh it off.


Really? see I am not in any clique at all...nor do I feel I am persecuted or bullied in any way.

Going back to OP, my mother was a total nightmare for months after her dog was attacked, it really upset her to the point of becoming an obsession with her. The police seized the other dog that attacked hers and it was PTS...this riled my mum even more cos she said the dog wasn't at fault, the owners were.

This happened about 3 years or so ago. Cost £1500 and now the dog has a stiff neck due to scar tissue and is DA to some dogs. I would put money on it if I rang my mum up and jolted her memory slightly about this she would start off again.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> I guess it depends on your intepretation of pleasant.
> 
> I do not use abusive language or threaten physical violence.
> 
> ...


Yes absolutely, I really valued and appreciated your advice re recall when I had problems with this.

Still, my statement was a fact: it's possible to be candid without making the other person feel worse than they already do. Your way of wording things can be abrasive, e.g. at certain points in this thread.

I acknowledged it was you that raised the topic of Predatory Drift.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> I think you need to back up your accusation with some actual facts
> 
> Please point to the post where I have hoped you never become a mother or have children when you have said that you cannot have children in the first place.


I've only posted two threads on here and this is the second

The first was about my (ex)boyfriend not taking proper care of his dog and you slated me that I hated the dog (though I took care of it for over a year) and you were just as pointless and petty as your being right now

And either you or meezey, pretty sure it was her not you (your lil bum chum) said you hope I don't become a mother

And that's when I very first lost it and became aggressive
I told you I couldn't have kids and that it was a sore point and that you were both crossing a line (you backed her up)

You ignored what I said and carried on with harsh responses over and over again and I actually got very upset


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> You really do feel sorry for yourself don't you, I am sorry that you feel so very unhappy with so many things in your life.


To be fair though, I think posts like this are goading. What response do you expect back now? Wouldn't it have been best to ignore? Although I know how difficult that can be at times 

Shame this whole thread has derailed into this bickering.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> This is so so so true


How can you believe this is true when ummm you havent been on here for "months"? :confused1::confused1::confused1:


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

Lexiedhb said:


> How can you believe this is true when ummm you havent been on here for "months"? :confused1::confused1::confused1:


I don't have to be here months to spot bullies and cliques and see certain behaviour

It was obvious from my first post who the instigators would be

I don't have to be here months


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Lexiedhb said:


> How can you believe this is true when ummm you havent been on here for "months"? :confused1::confused1::confused1:


I have, can I say it is 'so so so true'??
:lol:


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> I've only posted two threads on here and this is the second
> 
> The first was about my (ex)boyfriend not taking proper care of his dog and you slated me that I hated the dog (though I took care of it for over a year) and you were just as pointless and petty as your being right now
> 
> ...


Well I have just read all the posts in that thread and I appear to have missed the one you have accused me of writing.

Perhaps you would like to find it for me?

And by the way I have no idea what a bum chum is, but I am sure as your mouth is nearer that part of your anatomy than any other you can give a full and thorough explanation of the term.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> To be fair though, I think posts like this are goading. What response do you expect back now? Wouldn't it have been best to ignore? Although I know how difficult that can be at times
> 
> Shame this whole thread has derailed into this bickering.


I am enjoying myself now.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

smokeybear said:


> And by the way I have no idea what a bum chum is,.


*puts hand up* ooooh,! I know Miss!!.... Miss! Miss! ask me!!

Ok, I need to take my own advice and walk away from this thread. Its just cracking me up now but I cant seem to stop sticking my little wooden spoon in for a lil' stir.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> Well I have just read all the posts in that thread and I appear to have missed the one you have accused me of writing.
> 
> Perhaps you would like to find it for me?
> 
> And by the way I have no idea what a bum chum is, but I am sure as your mouth is nearer that part of your anatomy than any other you can give a full and thorough explanation of the term.


Bum chum is close mate
Partner in crime

I may have a potty mouth and be childish but id rather someone threw childish remarks at me rather than personal insults

You may give good advice and act more mature than me but as far as I'm concerned your not a very nice person

I have never gone out of my way to belittle someone and make them feel small or play down what they have to say or how they feel

I have never made someone feel bad about themselves and you have done it to me twice, both on very upsetting and personal threads where I bear all to strangers and you metaphorically laugh in my face

My dog was attacked or gone for or whatever you want to say and all you kept saying was it was my fault.
I wasn't watching him. I should have him On a lead. I'm hysterical. Over reacting. My dog wasn't even attacked.

What kind of "advice" is that

If a mother lost sight of a child for a moment and then something happened to him would you say to her "well it's your own fault you should of constantly watched him"

Your heartless and cruel and your replies are shi.tty


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> I don't have to be here months to spot bullies and cliques and see certain behaviour
> 
> It was obvious from my first post who the instigators would be
> 
> I don't have to be here months





catz4m8z said:


> I have, can I say it is 'so so so true'??
> :lol:


I just dont see how you can claim folk drag up old thread etc months after they have closed, as being a true statement if you have not been here months......

Yes Catz- you can LOL :thumbup:


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Will be interesting to see whether the next 'my dog has just been attacked' post descends into the same chaos!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Will be interesting to see whether the next 'my dog has just been attacked' post descends into the same chaos!


The last one didnt............


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Bum chum is close mate
> Partner in crime
> 
> I may have a potty mouth and be childish but id rather someone threw childish remarks at me rather than personal insults
> ...


You are totally entitled to your own opinion, informed or not, accurate or not.

You prefer childish remarks as you are unable to conduct a reasoned debate.

But thank you so much for your detached, constructive evaluation of myself, based on no actual personal knowledge.

By the way you have still not produced the post to support your unsubstantiated accusation regarding alleged remarks on another thread.

I find it very mysterious that you cannot find evidence of this "crime" against you.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> The thing is everyone ignores when I reply nicely
> They also ignore her 1..2..3 goading and rude replies before I make a stupid threatening post
> 
> Everyone just focuses on that it's not like she replies to me and I say I'm gonna mash her face in
> ...


We have learned over time that Smokey is a Grand Master at needling people - she isn't worth losing your temper over. She regards it as a personal triumph to drive someone to distraction.

As has been said, she never uses bad language, but rather relies on being patronising, superior, and dismissive of anyone else's opinion if it doesn't coincide with hers. Whilst she has a sort of bestial low cunning, she's not particularly intelligent. Put her on ignore.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

OP can I suggest you put certain members who you feel have been unfair to you on ignore that way you will not see the posts they make unless someone else quotes them.

I think there is a fine line between bullying and goading and I find it quite surprising that highly inteligent and experienced people feel the need to resort to it. There is being blunt and calling a spade a spade and then there is being callous to other peoples feelings  What exactly is all this achieving?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

lostbear said:


> We have learned over time that Smokey is a Grand Master at needling people - she isn't worth losing your temper over. She regards it as a personal triumph to drive someone to distraction.
> 
> As has been said, she never uses bad language, but rather relies on being patronising, superior, and dismissive of anyone else's opinion if it doesn't coincide with hers. Whilst she has a sort of bestial low cunning, *she's not particularly intelligent.* Put her on ignore.


Whilst the majority of your post is personal opinion, I do have to corect you on the accusation of not being intelligent, I am actually a member of MENSA.

I thought I would just throw that in to support your view that I rely on being superior.

You are right. I do.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

lostbear said:


> We have learned over time that Smokey is a Grand Master at needling people - she isn't worth losing your temper over. She regards it as a personal triumph to drive someone to distraction.
> 
> As has been said, she never uses bad language, but rather relies on being patronising, superior, and dismissive of anyone else's opinion if it doesn't coincide with hers. Whilst she has a sort of bestial low cunning, she's not particularly intelligent. Put her on ignore.


This made me smile.

I didn't even know I could ignore people does this mean her responses to my posts won't show up? That would be awesome


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Perhaps a mod should close this thread down now?


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I feel sorry for the OP to be honest with you OK so she got abusive *smash your face in * etc
No that's not a nice thing to say to anyone in real life or on a forum, but some people lose it easier than others I think and when you are really upset at watching a large dog get your little dog in their mouth you are going to think the worst at least I know I would
I am glad the little poodle is ok and hope no lasting effects on her mentally
Kudos the lady who was there to help too a pity the other dog walkers did nothing at all now that I cant understand 
If I saw a small dog getting attacked then I would go over to try and help not just stand by and do nothing 
Some people when they are scared and then angry react in a negative way that's life though 
I try not to be unkind to anyone in here on in rl and that's not blowing my own trumpet either its just the way I am but we are all different that's what make life interesting


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

smokeybear said:


> I am actually a member of MENSA.


no way?? You're in MENSA?

well, they'll let just anybody in wont they??:lol:


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> Whilst the majority of your post is personal opinion, I do have to corect you on the accusation of not being intelligent, I am actually a member of MENSA.
> 
> I thought I would just throw that in to support your view that I rely on being superior.
> 
> You are right. I do.


Lol sure you are.

And even if you were you still act like an idiot. A well spoken idiot. But an idiot nonetheless


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

leaving aside the pages of arguing about whether the forum is anti small dogs/ style of writing / foul language etc.

Having unfortunately known someone who discovered the wrong way just how quickly an out of control aggressive dog can cause serious damage, it does not sound like the big dog here was intent on causing harm - more like inappropriate play. The young border terrier near me is still recovering from major surgery to rebuild her jaw, not to mention the stitches in her numerous puncture wounds where your dog suffered no actual physical damage. 

I have no doubts that your dog was terrified, or that you were by the whole incident. I think you need to leave this thread for a few days until you've calmed down (not trying to patronise you btw - you have had a nasty shock and you will naturally still be upset about it) then come back and try to read the advice you have been given through neutral eyes so you can try to avoid anything similar happening in future when it may not end so well.

My summary of the responses is thus:

The owner of the other dog should have had it under control - whether on or off lead and should not have let it approach yours in the way it did.

You might have avoided the incident if you had been more aware of where your dogs were AND what the other dogs in the group were doing.

In future you need to be more aware of who is in the group you walk with and try to protect your dogs more proactively.


A number of people on here have dogs who can react badly to others, and some whose dogs have been attacked. The thing most have in common is they are now much more aware of what could happen and try to take steps to ensure it doesn't. Sometimes it does feel like you need eyes in the back of your head but it's important to be aware of where other dogs are in relation to yours if you are going to have any chance of intercepting them in time.

Hopefully Otis will have no lasting effects on his relationships with appropriate playmates and you'll be able to avoid the other dog from now on.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> This made me smile.
> 
> I didn't even know I could ignore people does this mean her responses to my posts won't show up? That would be awesome


It is a facility I have used to great effect and that is the one *true *comment you have made today, it is AWESOME


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> This made me smile.
> 
> I didn't even know I could ignore people does this mean her responses to my posts won't show up? That would be awesome


they will show to the rest of us you just wont have to see them.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> Yes PF is a wealth of useful info but also has a bullying clique at its centre - although those same people will now laugh it off.


No doubt about that but then I don't know any forum which doesn't When it comes down to it, it also depends on subject matter, people generally form a clique when they agree on things. Then there's the definition of "bullying". There's a difference between bullying and lacking empathy through the medium. Some of the most intelligent people find social graces difficult. At the end of the day there's an ignore setting somewhere for people you don't think are worth it.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

IMO there is no excuse for being personally insulting and aggressive/threatening to another member. Ok you may not have liked what smokeybear was writing, and I agree some posts have contained some argumentative/unnecessary comments, but that doesn't give you the right to respond in the way that you have!

At the end of the day we're a dog lovers forum, and if we think we can give advice to improve a dogs situation or protect them from future issues then we will. Whether that's the response you wanted or not. And not everybody here sugarcoats their advice/comments - they care about the dog, not the owner. I know my posts can often come across harsher than I intended, but I wouldn't tell someone if they were speaking to me in person I'd hit them. Not on :thumbdown:


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> Bum chum is close mate
> Partner in crime
> 
> I may have a potty mouth and be childish but id rather someone threw childish remarks at me rather than personal insults
> ...


How old are you? I feel like I'm on the receiving end of a teenager having a temper tantrum.

You might feel bullied, you might feel people are being cruel, but strange AGAIN how you are the only one resorting to childish name calling, threatening people and still resorting to swearing at people...


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Lol sure you are.
> 
> And even if you were you still act like an idiot. A well spoken idiot. But an idiot nonetheless


Yes I am.

And of course to use the vernacular, "it takes one to know one" so the ability to recognise that "alleged" idiocy is no doubt due to the fact that you yourself posses that attribute.

LOL

Still it makes a change from obscenities and fantasies from you.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> Lol sure you are.
> 
> And even if you were you still act like an idiot. A well spoken idiot. But an idiot nonetheless


if you want her to stop commenting on your thread and stop the argument then stop goading her and throwing insults. You go on about not being personal and then throw personal insults at everyone else.

its all getting very petty.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

ToyPoodle said:


> This made me smile.
> 
> I didn't even know I could ignore people does this mean her responses to my posts won't show up? That would be awesome


It probably means you just won't see them ( unless they are quoted in another post ). You might miss the Christmas Greetings PM too.


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## ToyPoodle (Jun 5, 2014)

Meezey said:


> How old are you? I feel like I'm on the receiving end of a teenager having a temper tantrum.
> 
> You might feel bullied, you might feel people are being cruel, but strange AGAIN how you are the only one resorting to childish name calling, threatening people and still resorting to swearing at people...


From now on I will ignore both you and her however your reply is hypocritical considering you felt the need to personally attack my capability of being a mother

Like I said I may be childish but you are hurtful


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ToyPoodle said:


> From now on I will ignore both you and her however your reply is hypocritical considering you felt the need to personally attack my capability of being a mother
> 
> Like I said I may be childish but you are hurtful


Hold on a minute, it was not me who said anything about you being a mother, would you like to go back and check the other thread?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Meezey said:


> How old are you? I feel like I'm on the receiving end of a teenager having a temper tantrum.
> 
> You might feel bullied, you might feel people are being cruel, but strange AGAIN how you are the only one resorting to childish name calling, threatening people and still resorting to swearing at people...


Now Now Meezey (or should I call you my "bum chum") 

Have YOU found the post where I apparently made all those nasty remarkes to TP she has accused me of?

Strange how conspicuous this post is by its absence.

One would have thought that the OP would have jumped at the chance to demonstrate yet another occasion when I have apparently "goaded" her etc.

Of is that another figment of imagination I wonder.............


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

speug said:


> it does not sound like the big dog here was intent on causing harm - more like inappropriate play.


Last time I let Adam play with a bigger dog he was limping for 3 months! And that was a very friendly little collie who accidently ran over him whilst playing chase (so no 'playful' snarling, growling or biting the throat like the OP was describing!). Needless to say he isnt allowed to play chase with anything bigger then a Westie now.
Some people really cant tell the difference between playing and rude/bullying behaviour. Just last week Hannah got bit on the ear by a dog that lunged at her and whose owner was repeatedly saying 'they dont want to play with you!'.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

Have I missed something?


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

ToyPoodle said:


> Lol sure you are.
> 
> And even if you were you still act like an idiot. A well spoken idiot. But an idiot nonetheless


and you're accusing others of been rude/bullying you  Stop responding, the discussion/arguments stop... simples


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> Now Now Meezey (or should I call you my "bum chum")
> 
> Have YOU found the post where I apparently made all those nasty remarkes to TP she has accused me of?
> 
> ...


Well " bum chum" I am an utter gob shite, but rest assured it wasn't me either, so if it wasn't this "bum chum" nor the other "bum chum" we might have another " bum chum" we know nothing about........... Oh look at that checked previous thread and it was neither myself or my MENSA Bum chum Member who made the comment about children...


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Meezey said:


> so if it wasn't this "bum chum" nor the other "bum chum" we might have another " bum chum" we know nothing about...........


what you do in your personal life is your own business.
dont ask dont tell!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> what you do in your personal life is your own business.
> dont ask dont tell!


a secret bum chum rather worries me


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

You mean the OP was not telling the truth????????????????????????????????


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> You mean the OP was not telling the truth????????????????????????????????


Fraid not....


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> You mean the OP was not telling the truth????????????????????????????????


It's even worse that we thought. You were not even involved in the other thread and I bowed out after OP started name calling...


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## AnimalzRock (Jul 2, 2014)

Waaaaahaaaa! Finally caught up with the last page. Have been reading this (surreptitiously at work) for about 3 hours and have to say, this forum is much more fun than the one I have been a member of for years.

So much so I had to go and join!

P.S. Some of you rock! :thumbup: (Not saying which ones, otherwise I may get threatened with violence. )


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

How is this thread not been closed and deleted! 

Ether way, to me the fight the OP described sounds a bit "handbags at dawn" type of fight.

Yeah that doesn't make it any easier to see, sometimes those fights (visually) are the worse.

However, if the GSD wanted to do damage it would of done, period. No way you would have or the other person involved been quick enough to pull him off if he actually intended to do damage.

Trust me I speak from experience from a GSD attack on a puppy that ended in a fatality.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ToyPoodle said:


> Woah woah woah
> 
> I haven't read the last page yet but couldn't let this comment go by and the fact 14 people likes this pile of crap.
> 
> ...


Well, yes, you do have to know where your dog is and what he's doing all the time. It only takes a second for a dog to get into trouble, as you've found. If your little dogs had been close to you and, had you been aware of what they were doing, this incident couldn't have happened.

My Jack Russell is okay around small dogs, but she gets very tense when approached by a bigger dog and her way of dealing with that is to jump forward and air snap. You might say other dogs shouldn't be approaching her, but they do, and I can't control other dogs and their owners.

I do let Rosie offlead in the park, but she's never more than twenty feet away from me and I do know what she's doing all the time. If I see a big dog approaching, Rosie goes back on the lead, so that I can control her behaviour and move her away quick, if necessary.

Rosie would never approach another dog so, on the face of it, it's unfair she should have to go onlead because other dogs approach her, but that's just the way it is.

I see no point arguing the toss about who's wrong and who's right, you do what you have to to protect your dog.

Someone occasionally brings a very dog aggressive, ex-racing Greyhound into the park and lets him off the lead. When I go to the park, before I let Rosie go, I make very sure that dog isn't in.

If you knew the GSD cross in this incident today was very dog aggressive then, in my opinion, the fact that you didn't know he was in just doesn't wash. You should have made certain he wasn't before you let your dogs go off roaming.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Meezey said:


> It's even worse that we thought. You were not even involved in the other thread and I bowed out after OP started name calling...


You mean all those accusations were not only unsubstatiated they were outright lies, designed to undermine my character?

Surely not!

I cannot imagine the OP would be capable of such calumny. :aureola:


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> Last time I let Adam play with a bigger dog he was limping for 3 months! And that was a very friendly little collie who accidently ran over him whilst playing chase (so no 'playful' snarling, growling or biting the throat like the OP was describing!). Needless to say he isnt allowed to play chase with anything bigger then a Westie now.


Fundamentally not your fault but the change in management was borne from an ability to analyse the incident and put into place actions which you can take to improve the situation. Denial of responsibility would not have improved anything. That is why this thread is where it's at now.

The OP needs to stop focussing on the tone of the advice and concentrate on the substance of the advice.

"When Smokey sings... I hear violins"


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ToyPoodle said:


> No I don't think that a rude person should be tolerated or listened to
> 
> I have no respect for people who behave rudely or mean for no real reason especially to a newb who's upset
> 
> ...


I don't just get the first line of that post. Nobody here has been more rude than you and you're certainly the only one using all the fruity language.

You say you haven't received any helpful advice but you have. The advice is learn from this incident and never allow your dogs to be out of your sight again.

You seem to have taken exception to that and started threatening Smokeybear.

The GSD was under the bench on which his owner was sitting, your dogs were roaming around, unseen by you. You've already said "I didn't know what was going on".

Whether you like it or not, you are partly to blame for what happened. If you won't listen to anyone who doesn't just agree with you and won't accept that you could be at least partly wrong, how are you going to prevent this type of incident from happening again?


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2014)

I just have to say this thread has been soooo amusing!! However .. obviously Toy Poodle is not amused and tbh I agree with a previous post .... it is definitely reminiscent of my experiences with our teenage children! My common response to their teenage rants was to walk away ... I believe this should be a now united response.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

Goodness - just finished reading this and even skipped a meeting at work to finish reading it. 

So.. 

OP - you mentioned that the GSD had attacked other dogs before - do you know if there was any damage done there? It would appear as if the other owners were pretty relaxed about having the dog offlead? If it was my dog that had been attacked previously, and I had seen the dog coming - I would have cleared out of their pretty quickly especially if the dog was off lead. (not aimed at you not looking but at other owners) 

Given the field at the back of your house - and you walk there regularly I am surprised that you did not know about this dog before. We have the forest behind us - and I know pretty much most of the dogs that get walked there regularly - but then again I have a lovely retired neighbour who is quite the busy body. 

Horrible lesson to have learnt - but on plus side it would appear as if your dog is ok.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I own a medium sized dog and when I have run into difficulties of course members are going to put me straight, that's why I am a member.

I have been brought up with dogs I now own a Staffie, I have never once felt that members are cliquey, for or against Staffie owners. Not everyone likes the breed, and I accept everyone has an opinion, which isn't necessarily the same as mine but at the end of day we all have one thing in common wanting the best for our dogs.

My suggestion to the OP is make a brew, sit down and take a deep breath. Then take comfort in the fact that no real harm was done. What happened was not right but in fairness you will come across numpty owners from time to time, sad but true.

I hope your next walks are happy and without incident.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Sweety said:


> I do let Rosie offlead in the park, but she's never more than twenty feet away from me and I do know what she's doing all the time.
> .


This wouldnt work with Hannah. She disappears into the nearest hedgerow and I can only tell what she is up to by the bell on her collar alot of the time! TBF though I doubt a big dog would be able to follow her where she gets to.



Thezabile said:


> walk away ... I believe this should be a now united response.


ordinarily I would agree but World of Warcraft is shut for maintenance today and I would of been very bored if not for this thread!:thumbup:


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> ordinarily I would agree but World of Warcraft is shut for maintenance today and I would of been very bored if not for this thread!:thumbup:


Bloody hell, what are they doing? Servers are normally back up by around midday


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> You mean all those accusations were not only unsubstatiated they were outright lies, designed to undermine my character?
> 
> Surely not!
> 
> I cannot imagine the OP would be capable of such calumny. :aureola:


Fraid so......

So does that mean you are really a cute fluffy?

*runs*


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Thezabile said:


> I just have to say this thread has been soooo amusing!! However .. obviously Toy Poodle is not amused and tbh I agree with a previous post .... it is definitely reminiscent of my experiences with our teenage children! My common response to their teenage rants was to walk away ... I believe this should be a now united response.


Again, what is with these posters finding it 'amusing'. Perhaps you'll find it equally amusing when your dog wets himself with fear after being chased by a larger dog?

The OP has now acknowledged it wasn't an attack, but still scary all the same. Posts have been goading...especially the latter half of this thread. ToyPoodle hasn't helped themselves in any way, but I'd have thought people would have had more understanding for someone who was clearly shook up and ranting about an event they believed to be more serious.

*Bows out of the thread*


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

diefenbaker said:


> Fundamentally not your fault but the change in management was borne from an ability to analyse the incident and put into place actions which you can take to improve the situation. Denial of responsibility would not have improved anything. That is why this thread is where it's at now.
> 
> The OP needs to stop focussing on the tone of the advice and concentrate on the substance of the advice.
> 
> "When Smokey sings... I hear *violins*"


Or in the case of this thread....... _violence_?

I'll get my coat.....


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Again, what is with these posters finding it 'amusing'. Perhaps you'll find it equally amusing when your dog wets himself with fear after being chased by a larger dog?
> 
> The OP has now acknowledged it wasn't an attack, but still scary all the same. Posts have been goading...especially the latter half of this thread. ToyPoodle hasn't helped themselves in any way, but I'd have thought people would have had more understanding for someone who was clearly shook up and ranting about an event they believed to be more serious.
> 
> *Bows out of the thread*


Hold on, OP has accused people of making cruel and hurtful comments, and accused them of being evil, one of those people wasn't even flipping involved in the thread, so she chose to abuse someone and threaten violence to someone who hadn't done the thing she accused them of? I might add she also accused me of the same thing, again I hadn't said anything.. If she wasn't so quick at name calling, threatening violence and accusation she might have got a better reception, might as well add she was hardly sweetness and light on her last thread.. Again no one made light of what happened, and again I might be a bitch but I certainly don't have to sit back and be accused of saying hurtful things I didn't say, and have put up with childish name calling and bad language upset or not.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Meezey I like reading your posts and I respect your opinion on a lot of things but you do use colourful language quite a lot yourself. The OP was wrong to accuse you and Smokeybear of making comments in a previous thread (and it would be nice if she said sorry for that) that you hadn't but I do agree there has been a fair bit of goading of her in this thread by people who should know better and quite a bit of that started before she even made the comments about the previous thread. Rise above it now.


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## wannabe dogowner (Feb 24, 2013)

The irony of all this to me is that whilst her delivery could have perhaps been better received if a little more errr 'fluffy', Smokey's advice was actually spot on!

Pretty much all of us have said the same as her..... 
Large groups of off lead dogs = potential trouble
Not watching your dog like a hawk can get you into hot water
The GSD whilst behaving totally ott, was probably not being 'aggressive' as such
Big dogs and little dogs playing can lead to prey drive issues or at the very least an inadvertently squashed small dog 

Despite much swearing and name calling, the OP has at least seemed to have taken some of these points on board and will hopefully be in a better position to prevent a recurrence.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Hold on, OP has accused people of making cruel and hurtful comments, and accused them of being evil, one of those people wasn't even flipping involved in the thread, so she chose to abuse someone and threaten violence to someone who hadn't done the thing she accused them of? I might add she also accused me of the same thing, again I hadn't said anything.. If she wasn't so quick at name calling, threatening violence and accusation she might have got a better reception, might as well add she was hardly sweetness and light on her last thread.. Again no one made light of what happened, and again I might be a bitch but I certainly don't have to sit back and be accused of saying hurtful things I didn't say, and have put up with childish name calling and bad language upset or not.


I have no idea about the accusations she's been throwing around as I'm not aware of the other thread, and I agree the name calling and threats of violence is not on. Like I said earlier before, she has not conducted herself well at all. But if you, or anyone, has taken offense to her insults why the going back at her? Surely it would make more sense to ignore? It just appears to me that a situation that was a serious matter has been made light of and the OP taken the p out of.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> Whilst the majority of your post is personal opinion, I do have to corect you on the accusation of not being intelligent,* I am actually a member of MENSA.*
> 
> I thought I would just throw that in to support your view that I rely on being superior.
> 
> You are right. I do.


You have misspelled it, my little wombat - it's *D E N S A*.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Meezey I like reading your posts and I respect your opinion on a lot of things but you do use colourful language quite a lot yourself. The OP was wrong to accuse you and Smokeybear of making comments in a previous thread (and it would be nice if she said sorry for that) that you hadn't but I do agree there has been a fair bit of goading of her in this thread by people who should know better and quite a bit of that started before she even made the comments about the previous thread. Rise above it now.


True and I agree I do, although I try to tone it down on the forum, but don't swear at a person, I might swear in conversation, and in NI swearing is second nature and seen as normal, but swear at people is offensive as is calling people "bum chums".

Time to go home now. SO shall hush my mouth on this thread... :aureola:


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## AnimalzRock (Jul 2, 2014)

ToyPoodle said:


> Bum chum is close mate
> Partner in crime


Not where I come from . . . :ihih:


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