# Hello Everyone ! Have a few questions about a min pin in labor



## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Hi everyone..brand new here. I read a few other posts and saw how nice most people here are, so decided to ask a few questions.

Before I go on, I want to say this was an accidental breeding. The pups are pure bred, but it wasn't meant to happen. I was actually going to have mommy spayed in January, but my little guy beat me to the punch. That being said, yes, I did originally buy her with the intent of breeding, but then changed my mind as she is very small and I didn't want to risk her health. Just circumstances changed financially on me, and I couldn't afford to get her spayed fast enough.

Anyway.....she appears to be in labor. Woke up this morning to an bowel accident on my carpet. The stool was kind of dark and loose ( very uncommon for her to have a mess inside). A couple hours later, she did it again ( outside this time), but none since. Her breathing is rapid, but its close mouthed, not panting really. No pushing that I have seen so far, ( and I'm watching closely) and this morning she ate, but hasn't shown any interest since then. She laying quietly in her box, just shifting position often.
I have a call in to the vet to alert them, and vet agrees she is probably in early stages of labor. Since some of this stuff started during the night, is there any way to guess how long it will be before she starts actually having the pups? I would say its been at least 15 hours, maybe a bit longer?


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

it sounds as if she could be starting - have you noticed any strings of mucous coming away from her vulva this usally happens around 24 hours before giving birth - in any case you will need to settle her in a quiet enclosed easily cleanable box or bed - have plenty of newspaper ( whelping can be messy - a small box lined with a soft towel or ideally a peice of vet bed ( fleece ) in which to put newly delivered pups whilst she is whelping the others - you must keep them warm - stay with your bitch all the time from now until whelping is over - when she is about to deliver you will see a contraction ripple along her flanks and she will begin to push - a black bulge will appear from her vulva - this is the pup in it's sac - when it's born she should try and tear open the membranes - if she has difficulty you can help by gently tearing open the sac ( PLEASE make sure your hands are throughly clean - antiseptic hand wash is a really good idea ! ) there will be a rush of fluid from the opened sac, your bitch will begin to lick the pup and this should stimulate it to cry, she will also chew through the umblical cord - be careful that she is not chewing too close to the pups tummy as this can cause injuries ( I usually gently tear the cord myself to prevent this ) -the placenta should come away either very soon after the pup or a few minutes after - your bitch may want to eat this and it's full of nutrients so let her eat some but I find that if she eats all of them her stools may be very loose for the next few days - this can be a problem if she is reluctant to leave her new babes to go out to the toilet ! - let her clean the pup and if you can, carefully change the soiled newspaper and put a clean layer for the next pup -place the pup onto the back nipple to suckle- when you see the contractions coming again place the first pup in the warm box and repeat the process. When all the pups are safely delivered change the bedding again, place some clean vet bed ( or towels if you don't have any ) under the bitch and place the pups back against the bitch's flank - they should begin to root around for the teats - offer your bitch a drink - 
Please make sure that all the placentas have been dleivered and please contact your vet if there are any problems (such as if she has been straining for a sustained time with no pup visible )

Min Pins have small litters so I would expect no more than 4-5 pups - don't leave the new family unattended for any length of time in these early days as bitches can kill their pups by over lying on them or pups may stray away from the warmth of mum and become chilled - make sure as well that the smallest or weakest pup is placed on the rear teats where the milk flow is the greatest - I give my new mums a meal of 'Flummery' after whelping -( that's eggs mixed with milk, and cheese gently warmed up ) - it's easy to digest, highly nutritious and a tasty treat - after all she's had to work very hard !


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

she has had some mucus....I wouldnt say "strings".....what I found yesterday morning, was dried on her fur. Her temp at the original post was 37.2 though and today it is 36.7. Still no pushing and puppies are still moving. Gonna try getting her breakfast and see if she is interested at all.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

If you were planning to breed I guess you have a breeding mentor lined up to help you? Maybe give them a ring and if they are near enough, which hopefully they are, ask them to come to your home to help. If they are not close by, they may know of another breeder who will help 

While you will get some good advice online, ring your vet if concerned, small breed and litter so you might need professional help. You say you couldn't afford to have her spayed, so I do hope you have the money to pay for emergency vet care/spay? Not having a go, just asking as I am concerned about this girl 

Hope all is well ...


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> If you were planning to breed I guess you have a breeding mentor lined up to help you? Maybe give them a ring and if they are near enough, which hopefully they are, ask them to come to your home to help. If they are not close by, they may know of another breeder who will help
> 
> While you will get some good advice online, ring your vet if concerned, small breed and litter so you might need professional help. You say you couldn't afford to have her spayed, so I do hope you have the money to pay for emergency vet care/spay? Not having a go, just asking as I am concerned about this girl
> 
> Hope all is well ...


My thoughts exactly!

And if you are concerned for any reason whatever the very least to do is to call the vet and at least ask his advice!


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## pop pop (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi and wellcome to the forum, no point in going over the accident as sounds far to late for that now so wish you good luck with the whelp, my dog didnt have stringy discharge and had what you described as dried stuff on her hair around back end, pops temp dropped at 9pm to bellow 37 and she had first pup at about 8.30pm the following night so sounds like your girl will go within the next 24 hours or so from temp drop.
was the male larger than the female as you say she is small? if so do you have anyone who could lend you the cash for a c section if needed? they are very costly and vets who will do them on a payment plan are few and far between.
not all dogs pant i know a friend of mines dog who just sat in her box and then out came a pup so although you should look for signs dont expect to see them, dont let your girl out in the garden alone as she may feel like she needs to poo when infact its a pup.
hope all goes well please keep us updated and dont forget we have to see pics of the puppies, its a must


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## the melster (Mar 20, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And if you are concerned for any reason whatever the very least to do is to call the vet and at least ask his advice!


The OP has already spoken to her vet.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2010)

the melster said:


> The OP has already spoken to her vet.


Yes wasn't quite sure what that mean actually, have a call in at the vets and the vets agrees bitch could be in labour! But the OP have already worked that one out!

Again I say to OP if for any reason whatsoever during the entire process you are at all worried then call the vet for advice! Our vets do not charge for telephone advice BUT if they believe there is cause for concern they will tell you to bring the dog in!

None of us know the breed of the dog here, the age , when the dog is due we know nothing, I am one that prepares to risk looking a fool and ask my vet rather then risk my dogs - but thats me!

To the OP hope all goes well!
DT


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Thank you Melster....yes, I have spoken with the vet, and she is on standby if I need her. And yes, I have access to the money for a c-section now. Unfortunately, I just didnt have access to it before the mating happened. 

( my daughter was in a horrible car wreck and broke her back....finances got very tough for a while) Things are looking up though, and those pesky credit cards are all payed off .....so I will have the funds if I need them.

Size difference between she and Napoleon ( when shes not pregnant)....I would say about 3-4 pounds.

She is laying quietly right now. A little panting a 1/2 hour or so ago......wont eat her breakfast.....but still no signs of pushing. 

Oh, and in the title of the post, I stated she is a Min pin ( but not in the body of the post....sorry 

And she is about 2 and 1/2. Napoleon ( the male) is about 5. We "inherited" him when my ex-husband was killed at work, and I became adddicted to the breed. They are just SUCH fun little dogs.

And yes, I agree about not risking her. I actually have TWO vets "on call" but my normal vet is a "farm vet" and freely admits she has not done very much with pregnant min pins. So she recommended someone that has had more experience with them. 

This little girl is my baby.....I hate the fact that she even got bred in the first place, but have no one to blame but myself. I really did try to keep them apart, but I guess my mind was just too busy in other places ( with my daughter) and they snuck one by me. 

She was bred on November first, so as close as I can tell, she would be due on Jan 2? So shes a little early, but not terribly so? ( Vet did not seem concerned about her being too early anyway)


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh, and she has seen her "normal vet" ( the "farm vet" ) twice through the pregnancy. She just has not seen the one that vet recommended yet. When I spoke to them, they said they would like to see her this morning, even if she is doing ok, just to check things out since she is rather small.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh, and last thing....i think )

I am not letting her outside anymore. Its the dead of winter here and we have about a foot of snow on the ground. She is paper trained also, so I set up a "potty spot" close by for her. I thought that would be safer than taking her out in the snow and accidentally dropping a puppy in that cold stuff?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> She just has not seen the one that vet recommended yet. When I spoke to them, they said they would like to see her this morning, even if she is doing ok, just to check things out since she is rather small.


So she is seeing vet this morning, that is good, do let us know what they think


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, if the attachment worked, here is a picture of mommy a couple days ago.

P.S. ( does it help that I am a ( recently graduated from college)nurse?) I know its for humans and not dogs, but at least SOME medical knowledge :thumbup:

*EDIT* the box you see her in is not her whelping box. That is actually a little table made out of old barn wood. It sits in my office( Normally facing the other direction) but she claimed it as her own and was constantly trying to squeeze between the back of it and the wall, so I turned it around and its her bed during the day when we are in my office )


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

here is a couple pictures of the male ( and her brother, in the blue camouflage collar) The father is the guy with the cropped ears and the solid blue collar. And yes, her brother is fixed. We did that as soon as he was old enough, to be sure we never had an accident there.

( the female and her brother do not have cropped ears. They are not show dogs or anything, so I saw no reason to subject them to that.....the fathers were already done when he came to us) 

Oh, and that is a little electric heater they are standing in front of. They LOVE that thing!:thumbup:


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

So, the panting has started off and on. But still no signs of any pushing and the puppies seem a little more quiet. They were very active last night.....still moving this morning, but not as much. Is this normal?

Shes resting quietly right now, but is QUICK to roll over for a tummy rub  ( more pictures attached)


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

How long has she been in labour? I am concerned about inertia


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, now we have "stringy stuff" and she has two wet spots on her pee pads. One is yellow, the other clear. Any thoughts?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Tanya....we woke up yesterday morning to an accident on the floor. So I would say things started with very early labor yesterday morning?


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Possibly waters.... expect a pup in 40 mins at the most.... if not vets straight away


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

so, is it just me, or do these two puddles look different?


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

yes the are definitely different.... are you sure she made both? I'd expect a little staining


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

She looks so big...do you have any idea how many pups are in there?

Good luck for a safe whelping has she been checked by that vet yet?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, so vet says she is doing fine. Nothing as of right now that causes concern, but if there are no pups by morning then he wants an x-ray to be sure the pups are not too big. 

While she seems very small to me, he says she is of normal size for a female of her breed, so today......we wait


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Claire....yes, we just got back. Not sure on how many pups yet..if no babies by morning we will get an X-ray then to see how many and how big. If there are at least 6 he says she can have them on her own most likely. Less than that, he says she most likely can not have them on her own.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I love my "farm vet"...but I really dont think she has alot of experience with small breed pregnancies honestly. She did not feel taking an x-ray to count little bodies was needed. 

I think I will be changing all of my min pin's care to this new vet...they seem to know so much more about them.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Why can't she have them herself if there is less than 6?


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2010)

I use a farm vet and will do throughout Alaska's pregnancy (when shes mated) as our farm vets is mainly a vet for breeding and showing. They seem to have more of a idea of whats going on.

If you find this new vet better then go for it.  

You may be best getting a scan..


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Cheeko...they say if there are less than that (given her belly size) they may be too big. 6 or more, they will be smaller pups?

I would suppose it would be similar to human babies. One would be normal size....multiples would be smaller?


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Its the size of her now thats worrying me a little, also combined with the length of first stage. If the uterus is overly cramped it cannot contract effectively.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Shetland ....Oh dont get me wrong. I love my farm vet. But she freely admits she hasnt done very much with min pins other than mine. This new vet that she recommended seems to be so much more comfortable with my little girl.

Oh.btw...BEAUTIFUL dogs in your photos. My parents had one similar to them ( I think he was a mixed breed). Someone drove by their farm one day and threw him out going full speed. My parents nursed him back to health and kept him for 12 years, before he passed.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Tanya.....I dont know if I mentioned this...I am in the USA. Perhaps the time change makes it seem longer? its been just over 24 hours since she started showing any signs at all, and her temp just went clear down ( 36.7 ) early this morning ( 3:00 AM by my time..its 9:44 here now)


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

I see...... I thought you meant she'd been in labour for 24 hours..... When did the panting, shivering stage start.... I'm guessing the diarrhea started 24hrs ago, not the actual labour???

Sorry lol.... easily confused.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

No need to be sorry...in my nervousness, I may not have been very clear. So sorry 

The diarrhea was just over twenty four hours ago. she has just started with a little panting this morning, no digging yet, lots of stringy mucus coming out now and urinating frequently. No pushing that I have seen. And right at this moment, she is standing at my feet "talking" to me and poking me in the leg with her nose


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Hey there its sounds like you are doing everything you can to help ya little girl.. And you have the right people here to support you.. 
Good luck and yes i agree.. she is huge..


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

So, she decided that breakfast looked pretty good after all...lol.

She is on a good puppy kibble, would it help her if I gave her some cottage cheese or ice cream or something?


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## TomCat1 (Dec 22, 2010)

I would avoid icecream since that'll give her a poorly tummy. Personally I'd stick to little and often meals of puppy food, nothing added for now


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

TomCat1 said:


> I would avoid icecream since that'll give her a poorly tummy. Personally I'd stick to little and often meals of puppy food, nothing added for now


A little ice cream works wonders during labour especially with a large litter and a long labour.:thumbup:


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

OK. I do add water to it for her, to soften it a little right now. Is that ok? ( normally she eats it dry, just the last 2-3 days I have softened a small bowl for her, in addition to her full bowl of dry.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

TomCat1 said:


> I would avoid icecream since that'll give her a poorly tummy. Personally I'd stick to little and often meals of puppy food, nothing added for now


Ice cream is good after first pup is born.


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> Claire....yes, we just got back. Not sure on how many pups yet..if no babies by morning we will get an X-ray then to see how many and how big. If there are at least 6 he says she can have them on her own most likely. Less than that, he says she most likely can not have them on her own.


At least you have touched base with your second vet now...so if you do need his involvement its not all so new.

Hope she gets going soon & you have healthy pups:thumbup:


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Shes sleeping!....lol

She really wants out of my office, to go out in the main part of the house. Not sure why she wants that, but she does. Everytime she wakes back up, she starts poking me and talking to me and going to the office door.


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

Ooh how exciting, hope the birth goes well!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I'm almost afraid to walk away at all. My friends dog stayed quiet right up till a few minutes before the first pup was born. She didn't start digging or anything till after the first pup came.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

oertels6 said:


> I'm almost afraid to walk away at all. My friends dog stayed quiet right up till a few minutes before the first pup was born. She didn't start digging or anything till after the first pup came.


My girl dug in the morn.. then wouldn't leave my side.. I was on the front with neighbours and ex and she went for a thought poo.. Mucous plug came out.. I took her in sat next to her whelping area and she wouldn't get off my knee.. Tried to have the first on me blooming knee.. and being a weimy it was no light weight to get off.. LOL


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Well, at least I dont have to worry about a HUGE dog wanting to have the little loves in my lap.....LOL

She keeps wandering back to her little box .....Its not very big....maybe 2x3.....i wonder if its safe for her to have them there? I cant help but kind of giggle at this picture. Dont you wish we humans could relax this well when we are laboring?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I can't get over how big she is.. I hope she has lots of little ones for you.. xxx


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Yes, its rather amazing how she got so big, so fast too. it was only 2-3 weeks ago I think when we really were able to ever see that she was pregnant.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Ice cream is good after first pup is born.





deb53 said:


> A little ice cream works wonders during labour especially with a large litter and a long labour.:thumbup:


really?? why?? is there a theory behind it??



oertels6 said:


> Well, at least I dont have to worry about a HUGE dog wanting to have the little loves in my lap.....LOL
> 
> She keeps wandering back to her little box .....Its not very big....maybe 2x3.....i wonder if its safe for her to have them there? I cant help but kind of giggle at this picture. Dont you wish we humans could relax this well when we are laboring?


aww bless her, I hope that the labour goes well


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Taylor. Well, as a nurse, I can tell you that the muscles need calcium to be able to contract and function properly. I have read that giving them calcium supplements during labor can help, so I am assuming its to help the uterus contract?

I have read cottage cheese or ice cream are both good.....but I have also heard either Tums or Rolaids are good because they have calcium also. Anyone know if thats true?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

UGH....I think she is just going to stay pregnant forever!:lol:

She doesn't seem to be progressing ( she might be, but no obvious signs).....is that normal? Shes just laying around and quiet. Ive taken her out into the main part of the house a few times just for some walking time, and she sticks to me like glue. But otherwise, quiet.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

I have heard of both Ice cream and cottage cheese, which like you said is to up the calcium levels. Havent heard about tums or rolaids before.

Yes its normal for them to relax, and have long periods of sleeping.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> UGH....I think she is just going to stay pregnant forever!:lol:
> 
> She doesn't seem to be progressing ( she might be, but no obvious signs).....is that normal? Shes just laying around and quiet. Ive taken her out into the main part of the house a few times just for some walking time, and she sticks to me like glue. But otherwise, quiet.


Has she lost her plug yet? What date is she due?


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> Taylor. Well, as a nurse, I can tell you that the muscles need calcium to be able to contract and function properly. I have read that giving them calcium supplements during labor can help, so I am assuming its to help the uterus contract?
> 
> I have read cottage cheese or ice cream are both good.....but I have also heard either Tums or Rolaids are good because they have calcium also. Anyone know if thats true?


Have heard about Tums too but never used them. Maybe someone else has.

When I posted earlier about the long labour I should have said also once a Pup is born as DD correctly said.:thumbup:


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Shetland...she has alot of stringy mucus ever time she urinates. Not sure if thats part of her plug or just mucus? And she had a spot earlier on her pee pad that looked like just plain water.....no yellow tint at all. I posted a pic of it earlier.

And she is is due Jan 1, so just a three days out.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Ok, maybe I spoke to soon......she is digging and rooting in her blanket now, and trying to lick at her bottom side ( though she cant reach it very well)


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## _Sara_ (Aug 15, 2009)

I don't have any labour advice but best of luck with your girl and the pups! Hope she has a quick delivery


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Temp is 36.6 C ( 98.0 F)


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, I have to share this pic, just because it is one of the cutest pics of her I have ever had the pleasure of taking.:thumbup: I hope no one minds ....


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> OK, I have to share this pic, just because it is one of the cutest pics of her I have ever had the pleasure of taking.:thumbup: I hope no one minds ....


its a pik that says "oh god its really hapening now" lol!! good luck with mum and pups xx


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2010)

Keep taking her temp and just keep her comfy.

She's not due yet so theres no need to rush it  But if she starts pushing and pushing and nothing happens then you will need to call a vet. Dont forget at this time the vet is your new best friend. 

My vet lives on my lane so I am lucky but any vet will be happy to give you advice no matter what time.

She does look very big so if she does birth naturally it would be interesting to see how many pups are in there.

Out of curiosity what weight was she before getting pregnant? She doesnt look like she would weigh much.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I would say about 7-8 pounds? She kind of fluctuates. In the summer she has the run of our farm. In the winter, she goes out long enough to do her job and right back in the house.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> I would say about 7-8 pounds? She kind of fluctuates. In the summer she has the run of our farm. In the winter, she goes out long enough to do her job and right back in the house.


Scorcher's like that...runs out wee's then runs back in.

Alaska runs round the garden like a mad head even in -8 temps.

Your girls very small in weight then...3kg I believe 7 pounds works out to.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Yes, about that. Sorry, I am in the states and still use to standard measurements. Trying to make myself use metrics, as we have to use them in nursing...lol

And yes, I have a bigger dog ( she is in one of the early pictures) that LOVES the snow. She will run and dive headfirst into the biggest pile she can find!


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

Awwwh!  

I hope your girl has a small litter so you dont get to tired from it all. 

Have you got the book of the bitch for advice too?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

No book. Just going by what I can find on here and through my vets. 

Ive been around just two dogs having pups and both of those were large dogs. One boxer, one lab....both belonged to friends of mine. And they both handled everything pretty well all by themselves...lol

I am actually very big into animal rescue....these two just managed to catch me off guard at a bad time. All of my other animals are fixed, and I intended to do these two also in January.....but.....well, you know the rest of the story.

Now i HAVE been around a lot of farm animals and assisted with many of them. Mostly pigs, some cattle, sheep, and horses. Not many dogs though.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Just for future reference - if yoy ever have two dogs mate again you could take the demale to the vets for a mismate injection, can be given at the latest on day 42 after the mating took place! But as their being neauterd I doubt you need that info LOL


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

actually, it is good information to have. I wind up with a lot of dogs getting dropped off or just randomly showing up at my place. There have been three just this year alone. So tidbits of information like this are always welcome.


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Oh my just caught up with this thread

Hope alls going well and your girl has an easy labour, shes so big love her

Good Luck


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

all is well so far. Just offered her some supper and she is nibbling at it a little. Lots more string mucus tonight, but not much more has changed yet.



She is now laying in my lap


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Well I came on expecting a pup.. never mind.. when I get up later, maybe there will be one then.. xxx


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

No, still no pups.......still no pushing. Looks like we will be getting that x-ray today


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

I was hoping we were gonna see puppy news this morning too

i think the xray is a good idea...looking at her size. I`m really worried she is so stretched with pups that she will have inertia.

Good luck today & keep us posted


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

the vet opens in an hour and 1/2......I will be calling then to set up a time to take her in and see whats going on in there. I will let you know what he says as soon as we get back


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Any news? hope its all going ok


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Well...it was an interesting visit to say the least. Yesterday, he just kind of checked her over, no vaginal exam or anything.

Today, her temp is back up to 100.4. She is not dilated at all. Apparently the things we are seeing are because of discomfort because of how large she is. 

The interesting part, is apparently they can tell how close she is to delivering by looking at the bones in their paws. The "finger" bones do not develop until the last week, and they are just starting to show up. So apparently, my little man got her more than the one time I thought he did, and obviously it was a few days later. He is estimating Monday as her due date, rather than Saturday as I thought. 

On the xray, we could see at least 5 little skulls, possibly 6. Obviously there may be more hiding, but we know there are at least 5 and they are BIG. Their skulls measure 2.8 cm and her pelvis measures 3.1 cm. So, if she does not go into labor before then, Monday morning she will go in for c-section. If she does go into labor before then, he says we can let her try, but he is concerned about inertia because the uterus is so stretched from such large pups. He says she could probably have 3 fairly well ( if they don't get much bigger before she goes into labor ) but anymore than that she may have trouble with. Given that, once she goes into labor, I am supposed to call him, and depending how she is doing, take her in and let her have the puppies at his office, just in case. 

I was planning to have my daughter take pics and post them as she had them , but it does not look like that will be happening, so if we cant, once they are here, I will get pictures and post them.

I want to say thank you to everyone though for all the good advice. I hope to still be able to use it, but its not sounding like it and thats ok....i just want her and the babies to be ok.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Ah.. So she still has time to grow.... Ah I really hope all goes well for you guys.. keep us all posted.. Big hugs.. xxx


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

thank you 

Im really glad I took her in. Now I am more "on alert" and know not to give any extra time waiting for a puppy to come out. Just not going to risk it with her.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Its just not worth it.. Thinking of you guys.. and I shall forward you my address and crate for a puppy.. lol


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

After going through all of this.....Im going to have a ROUGH time making myself let them go to new homes :lol:

I just have to keep telling myself I have ENOUGH dogs 



Bo = Boxer/Great Dane mix -- rescued November of 2007 from a snowbank.
Bell = Sister to Bo
Piper = Min Pin and soon to be new mommy
Napoleon = Min Pin we inherited when my ex-husband passed away and soon to be Daddy
Buddy = Min Pin, brother to Piper,


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

I know it so hard letting them go


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

oertels6 said:


> After going through all of this.....Im going to have a ROUGH time making myself let them go to new homes :lol:
> 
> I just have to keep telling myself I have ENOUGH dogs
> 
> ...


Haha Im telling you, lol you have enough dogs.. lol


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

The funny part, is only Piper was actually mine....lol

Bo, Bell, Buddy, and Napoleon were my daughters. But she worked so much, they all decided they liked me better since I was home with them more....LOL.

So they are technically hers, but they stay with me.....lol


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

oertels6 said:


> The funny part, is only Piper was actually mine....lol
> 
> Bo, Bell, Buddy, and Napoleon were my daughters. But she worked so much, they all decided they liked me better since I was home with them more....LOL.
> 
> So they are technically hers, but they stay with me.....lol


LOL my Bridget the Midget would rather be at my mums.. LOL they give her pigs ears and things...lol


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> Taylor. Well, as a nurse, I can tell you that the muscles need calcium to be able to contract and function properly. I have read that giving them calcium supplements during labor can help, so I am assuming its to help the uterus contract?
> 
> I have read cottage cheese or ice cream are both good.....but I have also heard either Tums or Rolaids are good because they have calcium also. Anyone know if thats true?


blimey you learn something everyday!  :thumbup:


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## ploddingon (Jun 15, 2010)

Have so enjoyed reading this thread, and will be keeping an eye on it for new developments.

Hope Mum to be is doing ok


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh my god...change of plans!........she has a water sac hanging out!!!!!!


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Good luck with everything, keep us updated!


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Good luck


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, vet just said she has two hours to have this puppy. If its not out, I have to run her back in


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

How did this happen......he said she was not even dilated??????


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> How did this happen......he said she was not even dilated??????


She could have started dilating after leaving the vets - it can come on quick, hence the water sack.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Should she be pushing? Because she isnt....she just has a panicked look on her face


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> Should she be pushing? Because she isnt....she just has a panicked look on her face


not always - dont worry just keep a close eye.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Holy cow...i dont know who is more panicked...me or her....LOL

Just caught me off guard....after the vet I wasnt expecting anything today!


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

It is nerve wracking - but there are people here.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm here if i can help i will


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

Keep calm for her sake then panic after 3 weeks of no sleep. :lol:

How is she doing?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

You folks are GREAT....thank you!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Is it common for them to try to hide from whats going on? She keeps trying to get under her blanket?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> Is it common for them to try to hide from whats going on? She keeps trying to get under her blanket?


Yes that is normal


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Have you got all the stuff you need to hand?


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> Is it common for them to try to hide from whats going on? She keeps trying to get under her blanket?


Most animals want to birth in private but for her sake stay with her.

Is there alot of people/going on in the room or is it just you and her?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Yes, I was already ready because I thought she was already in labor....lol


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Just me and her now. My daughters are in a room close by in case i need them


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Thats good.. just try and stay as calm as you can.. i know thats hard but you need too for her


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> Just me and her now. My daughters are in a room close by in case i need them


Good just try and keep everything calm and quiet for her.

I once had a bitch in that LOVED people and wouldnt push unless everyone were watching her then we had another who didnt even want the radio on. (worked in a vets). So it really depends and varies from bitch to bitch.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Shes starting to push...ill be back soon


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> Just me and her now. My daughters are in a room close by in case i need them


Coffee coffee coffee you will need lots of it


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> Shes starting to push...ill be back soon


Ohhh good luck! :thumbup:


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

good luck


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Good luck


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## kirstyS (Oct 21, 2009)

Good luck - fingers crossed x


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Ok, nervous "grandmother".....is it normal for her to push a few times, then stop for a while.......then start pushing again?


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## CAstbury (Oct 24, 2010)

OMG! I've just caught up with this thread - so excited for you.

GOOD LUCK - hope all are healthy


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

She is probably taking a little breather but keep an eye on how long she has been pushing. If it has been longer than 30 mins of pushing I would call the vet and see what they say


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Yes its normal for them to push, have little breaks and push again!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

14 minutes, off and on


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## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm on the edge of my seat here , good luck to you and mummy :thumbup:


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> Ok, nervous "grandmother".....is it normal for her to push a few times, then stop for a while.......then start pushing again?


Most bitch's have a break. Keep watching though, she would be more likely to do it between pups but pup 1 hasnt arrived yet has it? Or is it wishfull thinking on my part to see cute pups?


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

vizzy24 said:


> She is probably taking a little breather but keep an eye on how long she has been pushing. If it has been longer than 30 mins of pushing I would call the vet and see what they say


Its not been that long yet


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> 14 minutes, off and on


Dont worry that is fine - once the first pup is out, she may find it easier with the rest.


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## teddyboylove (Jul 31, 2010)

This is a very exciting thread - can't wait to see how things turn out. Wish her and you well. Hurry back!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Nope, we are working on pup one now. Im on the floor near her, just watching and whispering to her. ( wireless keyboard  )


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> Nope, we are working on pup one now. Im on the floor near her, just watching and whispering to her. ( wireless keyboard  )


Can you see it yet?

Hope you are ready for your house to be invaided by cute little mobsters that will chew everything.


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Can you see a bulge below her tail/bottom


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

no not yet.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

She must just be pushing them into place - also dont know if you said but did the water sack come out? as that may be what she is trying to pass? It can go back in and out for a while to start with.


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## CAstbury (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm missing the Liverpool v Wolves match to keep up with these puppies being born!!!!!!

:lol:


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

CAstbury said:


> I'm missing the Liverpool v Wolves match to keep up with these puppies being born!!!!!!
> 
> :lol:


:lol::lol: but come on puppies are much better


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

the bag was poking out and she broke it herself.


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## CAstbury (Oct 24, 2010)

archielee said:


> :lol::lol: but come on puppies are much better


They are when you are a Wolves supporter!!! 

But yes - I can always find out how many they have been thrashed by - THIS is way more exciting :thumbup:

I've spent weeks growing my nails and the anticipation may result in me nibbling them again :scared:


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Sli her lead on and walk her to the garden and back..... take a towel with you just incase..... helps to speed things up a little.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

CAstbury said:


> They are when you are a Wolves supporter!!!
> 
> But yes - I can always find out how many they have been thrashed by - THIS is way more exciting :thumbup:
> 
> I've spent weeks growing my nails and the anticipation may result in me nibbling them again :scared:


:lol::lol::lol:


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

is it head/feet or bum first?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Crikes I missed the start.... Come on now girly..


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Vizzy...it isnt showing itself yet....shes still just pushing off and on


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Good luck...so excited to hear puppy news


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Popping out for a ***, but will be back in 5 mins..... tell her to hold on for me


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

If its the puppy I saw on xray though, its head first....lol


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## CAstbury (Oct 24, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Crikes I missed the start.... Come on now girly..


Where did you disappear to? You can't miss this :thumbup:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

CAstbury said:


> Where did you disappear to? You can't miss this :thumbup:


I was having issues with myself.. Grrr


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Thats good head first... stay calm


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## CAstbury (Oct 24, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> If its the puppy I saw on xray though, its head first....lol


Do you realise how many people you have holding their breath waiting for a successful birth?


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

Ooh its exciting!


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## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

I can't imagine how excited/nervous you are , I've practically broke my refresh button :thumbup:


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

CAstbury said:


> Do you realise how many people you have holding their breath waiting for a successful birth?


Me for 1. :thumbup:


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

CAstbury said:


> Do you realise how many people you have holding their breath waiting for a successful birth?


Oh yes


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

me too...tell her to hurry up or we`ll all need new refresh buttons


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## kirstyS (Oct 21, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Me for 1. :thumbup:


Me for two!:thumbup:


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## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

claire & the gang said:


> me too...tell her to hurry up or we`ll all need new refresh buttons


and I may need a new heart :lol: mines going like mad


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## CAstbury (Oct 24, 2010)

claire & the gang said:


> me too...tell her to hurry up or we`ll all need new refresh buttons


:lol: :lol: there will be a mass search on e-bay for 'refresh' buttons! :lol:

How nerve wracking is this? And I'm thousands of miles away from the event!:eek6:


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Was it the sac she broke? or he plug?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

It was the sack. BIG bubble of fluid


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Whats she doing now?


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Ooh just got in from work and its the first thread i checked 
Good luck!!!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, its been just over an hour since she broke the water sac.....Ill give her another 1/2 hour or so, and off to thevet, as they are 30 minutes away with busy traffic


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Archie...jsut laying there. She pushes a few times, then stops....then pushes a few more times and stops


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## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

my mum said I have to go watch a film with them , but I refuse to leave this thread :lol:

Can't wait!!!!!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

((((((((((((((((positive Vibes coming your way)))))))))))))))))


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> OK, its been just over an hour since she broke the water sac.....Ill give her another 1/2 hour or so, and off to thevet, as they are 30 minutes away with busy traffic


How's she doing? Did you take her out for a walk in the garden like Tanya said?


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

I just wanted to wish you all the best with the birth of your little babies, hope all goes well. 

xx


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I cant take her out.......we have over a foot of snow on the ground. Its deep than she is tall....lol


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

You could try just walking her around the house a little maybe


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

If you take her to the vets, get all your stuff and take it with you..... the car journey there/ back often produces a pup each time.

Is she still contracting?


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

how about a walk round the house


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Yes, stil contracting, still pushing off and on. Letting her out in the main part of the house wont hurt anything? My other kids are out there too. ( adult kids)


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> Yes, stil contracting, still pushing off and on. Letting her out in the main part of the house wont hurt anything? My other kids are out there too. ( adult kids)


If they are adults & nobody fusses her too much & she`s happy to have a walk about it may still help bring her on


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

I've just gone back and checked our Coco's litter. She had the water sac appear at 4.53am but first pup wasn't born until 4 hours later with no problems at all... oh apart from me pulling my hair out with worry


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Doctor says because of her size, she only has two hours to have the first one. If nothing by then, we have to take her back in


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

She seems to be pushing harder this time. Sorry the pic is a little dark, I didnt want to turn on the flash.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Ah bless her.. come on little one.. push hard for mommy.. xxx


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Is she comfortable with you performing an internal to see if a baby has engaged into the birth canal?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I dont know...I have not tried yet. Shes so tiny, I didnt know if it would hurt her if i tried


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

oertels6 said:


> I dont know...I have not tried yet. Shes so tiny, I didnt know if it would hurt her if i tried


|If you do make sure your nails are short and clean.. xxx


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

I would perform one, just make sure your hands are clean, and you it gently and apply plenty of lube.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Shes keeps going to her puppy pad to try to potty


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I always think on their first pup they think they need a poop.. but after the first kinda realise whats going on.. poor lass..


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Very normal...... maiden bitches often think they need to relieve themselves.... sounds like puppy is engaged ready to come out..... slop on plenty of lube around the vulva


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

some think they need the toilet.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Bless her...


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

Just caught up with all this, just wanted to say good luck x


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I feel what seems like little legs?????


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

It does not feel like she is totally dilated. It seems like I have to push ( gently) througha little "ring". Does that makes sense?


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## Stellabella (Jan 8, 2009)

Been following the thread, you're doing so well! 

Have you got someone to go with you or better still, drive you to the vet's? You shouldn't take her on your own! 

Good luck!!


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Don't worry, legs are fine..... is she still pushing??? If the baby is that far in the birth canal, you need to try and get the baby out as quickly as possible or the placenta will soon detach..... 

Stimulate the inside of the vulva (called feathering) to try and create stronger contractions.... may take 5 mins or so, keep movements in a reegular rythmn


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> It does not feel like she is totally dilated. It seems like I have to push ( gently) througha little "ring". Does that makes sense?


It maybe a stricture.... very unlikely you can feel a cervix.... it will be about 5 inch in


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Its like a little ring...about to between my first and middle knuckle


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## teddyboylove (Jul 31, 2010)

Oh come on wee one, we are all rooting for you - and you, too, mummy.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Water sac broke 7.23
Pushing since about 7.45
Isn't it time for the vet?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Ok, its just shy of two hours since that water sac showed.....an hour and 1/2 since she started pushing


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I was just going to say, I think its time to head out


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

have you tried feathering her?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

A little...it makes her push but no results


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Can someone travel with her whilst you drive? Its very likely she'll push this one out on the way to the vet.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

Good luck!!!!


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Good luck,


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Yes wasn't quite sure what that mean actually, have a call in at the vets and the vets agrees bitch could be in labour! But the OP have already worked that one out!
> 
> Again I say to OP if for any reason whatsoever during the entire process you are at all worried then call the vet for advice! Our vets do not charge for telephone advice BUT if they believe there is cause for concern they will tell you to bring the dog in!
> 
> ...


The Title of thethread says she's a Min pin....Hope she's ok.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Good luck! Like Tanya says is their someone than also travel with you - the motion of the traveling can alot of the time help things progress, and before you know it the first pup is there!


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Good luck...sending puppy dust your way


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

good luck... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

ok. this is oertels6> daughter. they are on their way to the vet, she could feel the puppiy's feet but it wasnt coming out. so that is what i know right now.


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks for updating us


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Thanks for letting me know.... my refresh button was wearing out


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

ok new update. my husband just called(he tagged along to the vet) they are doing a c-section. they said shortly we should know how many babies we have.:thumbup:


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Hopefully things will all be ok soon


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

Oooooo I am so on edge.....I hope the C-section goes well.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

im sure. its kind of ironic. we just had a litter of boxer mix pups in sep. i had a baby 11-30. now theres more puppies gonna be here. good lordy im gonna pull my hair out! :lol:


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Oh my god Iv held my breath reading through all of todays posts, god fingers and paws all crossed here for a safe delivery

Will stay glued for more info


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

we have 4 boys and 2 girls.....hubby described them as "overgrown mice" lmao. mom and babies are doing good.


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

wahooooooooooooo congratulations :thumbup:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

oertels6 said:


> we have 4 boys and 2 girls.....hubby described them as "overgrown mice" lmao. mom and babies are doing good.


That is fantastic news.. and didn't that happen so quick..  Hope mum and pups are all fine... xxxx


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Wow, that was quick!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

ty...now maybe my mom will calm down. she was more freaked out then the dog. lol.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

That was very very quick!


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> im sure. its kind of ironic. we just had a litter of boxer mix pups in sep. i had a baby 11-30. now theres more puppies gonna be here. good lordy im gonna pull my hair out! :lol:


Ironic indeed.


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

awww congratz:thumbup:


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

ty for all the congrats. im sure mom will post pics of the little ones when they get home.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Glad to hear the pups are here safely. And Mum is doing well. But that was a seriously fast delivery  about half an hour........one very speedy driver and vet!!

Looking forward to the pictures!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

yea. mom doesnt quite know how to keep her foot out of the injectors. lol


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Congrats on the safe delivery and I hope mum and babies are doing well. Would be nice to see pictures when mum's happy for you to take them of course


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Congratulations on a safe delivery. good luck


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, this is Tammy now. Mommy and babies are doing fine! I will post more in a bit, but wanted to get a pic posted before I make supper.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I will be back soon to tell the rest of the story...lol


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## teddyboylove (Jul 31, 2010)

Well, wish I smoked - I need a blooming great cigar. Well done to all of you. Congrats!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Lovely photo, so glad it all went well and all pups and mum doing fine


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Lovely photo they're very cute


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

how many did she have! well done mum!


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Taylorbaby said:


> how many did she have! well done mum!


6 pups, 4 boys 2 girls.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> 6 pups, 4 boys 2 girls.


lol just read the past few pages! 6 pups in such a small mummy! that was some quick c-section??? mum doesnt seem to have any marks on her, where do they make the cut?? should she leave hospital so quick? my cat was kept in overnight! and she didnt even have the c-section in the end, just injections!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, so....here is what happened.

Puppy number one, was trying to come out shoulder first. So his head was on one side, his legs on the other. We werent there but maybe 5 minutes I think, and they came out and said she was going to have to have a c-section cause the first pup was sideways. After it was over, they came out to let me know everything was ok, and doc explained about the first puppy, but also, her uterus was starting to tear a little? I guess he didnt tell me what causes that, but he said it was a very good thing we came in when we did or it could have been very bad. So even if I had not already planned to, he says she must be spayed to make sure she has no more. I guess the tear can cause issues later? ( which is fine by me.....i do NOT want to go through this again or put her through it ) . 

My only concern now, is they are not nursing very well. Doc said they might not, and to be sure to have milk replacer on hand. What he didnt tell me, is how much to give them or how often? Any ideas? they are only maybe 2-3 inches long, and a little bigger around than a good sized mans thumb.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh, and sorry Taylor, I missed your question.....her incision is about in the middle of her belly...between the teats. She wont let me really see it right now, but maybe tomorrow I can sneak a picture of it.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

SO, as the night is winding down here across the ocean.....I want to say a HUGE thank you to all of you that helped with my little girl and her little ones. I truly feel without your collected knowledge, I would have lost her and the puppies.

I KNEW I came to the right place when I saw so many helpful posts......THANK you SO very much again. I will continue to update you on puppies and add pictures as they grow up


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Just up and checking on the new mommy and babies. All are warm and comfy and mommy is REALLY thinking she likes this whole littler of puppies thing. She is really trying to watch over them! I'm still just a little concerned about them getting enough milk, so I'm giving them just a tiny boost ( about 1/2 mil) to make sure they are getting enough, especially the little runt. There is one thing I did forget for them, and that's a set of scales to monitor their weight. So tomorrow morning, we are running out to get one.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Ah Im so glad they got out safely.. and dont forget the more pics.. xxx They are uber cute.. xxx


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Hope mom and pups are doing well :thumbup:


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## CAstbury (Oct 24, 2010)

Yay! Congrats to mom! Clever girl.

This morning - fed my own animals and then before I fed myself - had to come and find out how the little lady had got on. 

Hope they have all had a good night - you will have some pretty restless nights now :lol:


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Congratz to you & mommy.....they look lovely:thumbup:


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

The tear is due to her pushing the pup out that was going nowhere. 
Glad to hear they are fine.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

So, third check of the night, and all is well. The puppies all look fantastic and mommy is really hovering and making sure they are all ok. She is my baby.....yet she even fusses when I hold them to give them a little extra milk. Its really cute how much she fusses over them, because yesterday when she woke up from anesthesia, she was kind of looking a them like they were a bunch of alien creatures....lol.

Here are a few pics. It seems kind of tough to get a good one....she is black....they are black.....the towel they are laying on is black.....lol. But I will get some good ones as time goes on. 

Is it normal that she wants NOTHING to do now with the area she was in to whelp? She is now in the corner of my office on the floor ( on a towel over a heating pad) and I just used my portable play yard fence to provide a sort of boxed in area. She just absolutely will not go in her box, and she gets agitated if I put the puppies in there to try to temp her in.

Oh, and its really strange to hold her now. She was SO heavy with puppies, she feels like a little puff of nothing now.....lol


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Oh My lordies.. that pup in your hand.. How small are they.. what cuties.. LOL

And you know that little puff.... lol give it a few weeks and I am sure you will find she has produced a hurricane going through your house.. LMAO

And re where she sleeps.. she is mother.. and will stay where she feels safe..


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## Rache (Jul 24, 2010)

Aww congrats. They are beutiful babies x


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Awwww So cute  You must be run off feet....Have you still Got your Boxer X puppie's how many did she have?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Ohhhh, I KNOW what she and her brother were like when we got them.....lol. 

Always had to watch where we stepped , never knew where we might find them when they were loose in the house, and potty training was VERY interesting since they could get into little spots where our hands would not even fit....lol


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

The boxer mix pups were not mine. They belonged to someone else that was not able to keep up with her and nine puppies (an elderly man). I just took care of mommy and babies till they weaned and got new homes


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Taking care of puppies is the easy part I think.........the whole pregnancy, labor, etc........never again. I think my stress level was totally on overload.....lol


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## kirstyS (Oct 21, 2009)

Just looked in on this again - congrats - soooooooo cute!:001_wub:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Congratulations !! Super pups. Glad Mum is okay


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

so, this one pup might be a runt.....but he sure bullies his way through the rest of them to get to a nipple. I watched him knock another bigger pup right off the nipple....lol.

Last night he wasnt nursing very well, but I think hes got the hang of it today!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

They're seriously cute. Glad everyone is doing ok


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

More pics please


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I just took a few more.....lol


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Just to give an idea of their actual size, here is another pic for you. 

Needless to say, we are not using the pet nurser bottle, but a syringe instead.....lol


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Aww soooo cute


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## kaisa624 (Mar 5, 2010)

How adorable


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## ploddingon (Jun 15, 2010)

Just popped in to see how mum to be was and find she is a proper mum!

Congratulations, I hope the pups start to feed well for you


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Love the new pics :thumbup:


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Aww they are soo tiny & cute....they look like healthy lil things tho lovely shiny coats


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

they are absolutely gorgeous..


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Ok, I am a litle worried about two puppies. They dont seem to be filling out as well as the other 4. I am supplementing them every two hours with a little goats milk....should I be giving them more than 1/2 to 1 ml?

Im trying not to give them so much that they wont nurse off mommy.....but still make sure they have enough?

And is it normal for mommy to have diarrhea even though she was c-section and did not eat the placentas?


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Goats milk? Errr, I'm not sure you should be feeding them Goats milk? I think it's only replacement milk you should give ... especially this young  I hope I'm wrong!

Not sure about mum having the runs ... perhaps give your vet a call, and ask about the milk at the same time.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

oertels6 said:


> Ok, I am a litle worried about two puppies. They dont seem to be filling out as well as the other 4. I am supplementing them every two hours with a little goats milk....should I be giving them more than 1/2 to 1 ml?
> 
> Im trying not to give them so much that they wont nurse off mommy.....but still make sure they have enough?
> 
> And is it normal for mommy to have diarrhea even though she was c-section and did not eat the placentas?


Could that be the meds she has had giving her diarrhea.. I dont know about feeding them and I bet Tanya will be in bed now as it it 1.40 am here... Hopefully I have bumped the thread up in case anyone is about...


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> Ok, I am a litle worried about two puppies. They dont seem to be filling out as well as the other 4. I am supplementing them every two hours with a little goats milk....should I be giving them more than 1/2 to 1 ml?
> 
> Im trying not to give them so much that they wont nurse off mommy.....but still make sure they have enough?
> 
> And is it normal for mommy to have diarrhea even though she was c-section and did not eat the placentas?


Im not sure you should give them goats milk? Have you got any special formula that is the same as mums milk with all the vitamins in it?? 
I think my kittens have more than that so maybe the doseage should be higher but I literally have no idea I didnt want to read & run off 
I think that the stress of it can give mum a upset tum, but ID still call the vet & get some speical pup formula.
Hope some other doggie breeders come on soon!

they are looking lovely though so tiny!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Ive just pm'd Rocco.. just in case she can help.. hope you get some soon..


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

The vet suggested either one because the goats milk is so mild?.....and I already had goats milk ( i feed the wild cats in the winter time with it) but if you guys think the actual puppy milk replacer would be better, I will pick it up in the morning when we go get tails and dew claws done.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Good luck tomos.. did you know it has been banned over here to have their tails done?


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Oh  ... do you mean docking their tails? Do you work your dogs? 

Hope someone can answer you better about the Goats milk. I did a bit of googling about it since I replied before, and it seems there are conflicting views about using goats milk. I personally would opt for replacement milk if it's safer.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> Oh  ... do you mean docking their tails? Do you work your dogs?
> 
> Hope someone can answer you better about the Goats milk. I did a bit of googling about it since I replied before, and it seems there are conflicting views about using goats milk. I personally would opt for replacement milk if it's safer.


This lady is in America..


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

No, i don't. Everyone over here just expects it to be done. I guess I am used to seeing it and people having it done, but I am totally against ear cropping. Over here, the do the ears at a few months old, and I think its just cruel. Tails get done at the same time as dew claws ( and I cant be in the room when they do it...Im too soft hearted ). And I think (though I am not sure) if their tails are not done, they cannot show them? Over here anyway. They are getting away from the ear cropping, but still push the tails being done.

Dont quote me on that.....I dont show, but I think I heard that before.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

I know she is hun


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> No, i don't. Everyone over here just expects it to be done. I guess I am used to seeing it and people having it done, but I am totally against ear cropping. Over here, the do the ears at a few months old, and I think its just cruel. Tails get done at the same time as dew claws ( and I cant be in the room when they do it...Im too soft hearted ). And I think (though I am not sure) if their tails are not done, they cannot show them? Over here anyway. They are getting away from the ear cropping, but still push the tails being done.
> 
> Dont quote me on that.....I dont show, but I think I heard that before.


Then I'd snub the show world. It's a cruel practice and I wish they would ban it worldwide


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I would like to see ALL vanity croppings banned. But the way people are over here, if I dont crop the tails, I am afraid I will have 6 new pets of my own.....LOL.

Now dew claws....Im a big supporter of it and I think every litter should have them removed. My old dog ( passed three years ago at 16 yrs old....RIP)....had a dew claw that got some sort of infection in it. Turned out to be quite a surgery before they got it under control. They compared it to removing a humans thumb, clear at the wrist.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

oertels6 said:


> I would like to see ALL vanity croppings banned. But the way people are over here, if I dont crop the tails, I am afraid I will have 6 new pets of my own.....LOL.
> 
> Now dew claws....Im a big supporter of it and I think every litter should have them removed. My old dog ( passed three years ago at 16 yrs old....RIP)....had a dew claw that got some sort of infection in it. Turned out to be quite a surgery before they got it under control. They compared it to removing a humans thumb, clear at the wrist.


She's right she'd have a hard time. Overhere if you don't won't the tail docked you pretty well have to put a deposit on at birth. Myself I only ever did back dew claws, and am now not so sure about it..


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

One sad little upate 

The puppy I was having trouble with...had to be euthanized this morning. Apparently the reason he was not gaining weight was because of cleft palate. I kind of wondered if that was why, but I couldnt see in his tiny little mouth well enough to tell. 

Ona brighter note, all of the other puppies are doing well. Vet says to watch the littlest one, to be sure he is getting to nurse, but otherwise they are all doing well


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Aww sorry to hear about the puppy but I'm glad the others are doing well


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> One sad little upate
> 
> The puppy I was having trouble with...had to be euthanized this morning. Apparently the reason he was not gaining weight was because of cleft palate. I kind of wondered if that was why, but I couldnt see in his tiny little mouth well enough to tell.
> 
> Ona brighter note, all of the other puppies are doing well. Vet says to watch the littlest one, to be sure he is getting to nurse, but otherwise they are all doing well


Sorry to hear that. Blu's sister had a cleft palate and they were going to operate on her to get it fixed when she was old enough. They spent hours syringe feeding her but sadly it wasn't to be 

Atleast the others are all doing well.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

So sorry about the little one


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Its funny how attached I already was too him.....i just cried like a baby when they said he would drown in his milk if we tried to keep feeding him


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

So sorry to hear about the little boy 

Glad the others are doing well


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

Just caught up with this folks - I'm sorry to hear that you've had such an eventful whelping and was'nt that a huge litter for such a wee lass ! - so sorry as well to know that you've had to have one of the pups PTS - mother nature can be cruel at times . I do hope that your bitch is recovering well and look forward to seeing some pics of your healthy happy pups as they grow - you've a hectic time ahead - enjoy every moment !!


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

OMG!!!!! They are beautiful!!! Sorry about the pup you lost


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Sorry to hear you lost one of the little boys


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> Then I'd snub the show world. It's a cruel practice and I wish they would ban it worldwide


Me too. it's only if breeders stand up and say no, that things will change. But I guess they know they won't be able to see the pups as easily ...

Horrible ting docking and not something I could do to a puppy without a a REAL medical reason 

Poor puppies


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Mommy and babies are all doing very well today. I have to giggle at this little runt. He sure does not take any grief from the puppies. He just shoves his way into the mess of them and finds a nipple....lol


Can anyone fill me in on how they ship puppies? I have someone interested from quite a distance away, and I am not sure I like the idea of sending one through some kind of mail system. Do they get there fast? are they kept warm? If shipping takes more than a day, how are they fed and watered?


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2011)

oertels6 said:


> One sad little upate
> 
> The puppy I was having trouble with...had to be euthanized this morning. Apparently the reason he was not gaining weight was because of cleft palate. I kind of wondered if that was why, but I couldnt see in his tiny little mouth well enough to tell.
> 
> Ona brighter note, all of the other puppies are doing well. Vet says to watch the littlest one, to be sure he is getting to nurse, but otherwise they are all doing well


Sad to hear you have lost a wee one!
Suprised that the vet did not pick this up at birth! I would have assumed the delivery vet would have checked mouths and bums.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> Then I'd snub the show world. It's a cruel practice and I wish they would ban it worldwide


Ireland would be enough for me at the moment!

I shall put my hand up and say that when the docking laws were first introduced I nevr thought I would get used to it!
BUT!! I LOVE my girls tail - and could never imagine here without it! The breeders could have easily have docked her if they had wanted to as they have a working farm and consequently a gun licence! Gues her saving grace were that she were initially keep back for the showring! (you can't blame the show ring for docking by the way!! you cannot enter a docked docked in a show where the public have to pay an entry fee)

My eldest - the dog is docked - but of late has been having probs with his stump and may well end up with a full amputation! so being docked certainly never saved him did it!

Back to Ireland - yep the sooner they fall in line with us and cease docking the better in my view!

Sorry to have gone off track OP!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Im not sure if he didnt check, or just missed it since their little mouths are so tiny. I checked their backsides myself to make sure everything was as it should be and tried to see in their mouths, but couldnt. Thats something we used to run into on occasion with livestock, so I knew to check for that.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Very ok Double.....I find it interesting that its been banned over there, but its still expected here.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

sorry to here about the baby you lost, its so sad when one passes 
glad the others are doing well, I dont know if its the same for pups but I normally take the biggest kitten away from mum if there is a smaller one and give him a top uo to let the little one have free time on the nip!


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Yeah, I am kind of doing the same. We hold the bigger pups for a few minutes and give the little one some time alone to nurse. Plus I am still supplementing him with a bottle. He is doing really well though, he has a nice round little tummy and no little bony spots showing.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Congratulations on the new babies.

Try to get the little one on the teats at the back under her back legs. Those have more milk. If one of the bigger pups go one first then carefully take it off and put the little pup on to that teat.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Thats real sad.. You know you did your best for him.. big hugs... xxx


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> Very ok Double.....I find it interesting that its been banned over there, but its still expected here.


Not to derail further, but I was recently pretty much disgusted by a thread on a corgi forum, where those with Pembrokes were exclaiming that they loved their "bunny butts" so much that they really couldn't live without docking. Poor pups.

Sorry to hear about your little one---run free at the bridge little guy!


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## kirstyS (Oct 21, 2009)

Anymore pics? :thumbup:


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

I will get some more tomorrow and try to get some individual ones, that kind of show off the puppies markings. 

Also....that little runt is turning into quite the little scrapper. He takes NO bull off the bigger pups, and he is starting to refuse his bottle and I have to coerce him into drinking a little of it. So I guess its time to stop the bottle and just watch him. I'm thinking he will do just fine on his own


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Good to hear the little one is doing well:thumbup:


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## Binkie (Aug 12, 2010)

What a fantastic thread! good luck with your brood.....


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

how are mum & pups?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Well, pups are doing FANTASTIC.

Mommy...not so well. Today my daughter called me while I was in class, and I had to hurry home and rush Piper to the vet. She was having what appeared to be a seizure, but it wouldnt stop. 

Apparently she is suffering from hypocalcemia. Really not sure how that happened, as I feed her Iams puppy food and also give her milk every morning with her food. But anyway, she is staying the night in the animal hospital and puppies must be weaned. 

NEVER again will I EVER let a dog have a litter of puppies. Twice now I almost lost my little Piper


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Sorry to hear that.... over here it is called eclampsia. You were very lucky that someone saw it happen, once the seizures start it is a very fast acting condition and unless IV calcium is given within athe hour (at maximum) the prognosis is very poor.

However, with immediate veterinary treatment, and constant supervision upon release, it is an easy condition to solve and often has no lasting effects.

Hope she feels a bit better soon.... How old are the pups.... it feels like ages since they were born lol


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

they are almost 4 weeks

They are doing great, and its hilarious to watch them learning to eat......ohhhhh boy what a mess!. But they seem to enjoy it anyway...lol

I sure hope she is ok. I called the vet before they closed, and he said she appeared to be doing a little better. She was relaxing a little bit.....not so rigid, and she ate a little bit and was looking for more. Good signs I guess?

I hope she can come home tomorrow. But he suggested weaning the pups, and from what I read online, it can happen again if I let her nurse. So I guess they are officially being weaned at a very young age 

What you said about only having an hour....has me worried. From the time I got the call, ran home, drove back to the vet, and they got the IV in, was just about an hour. She was rigid that whole time. I hope since she has shown some improvement, that means she will recover???


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Sure hope Piper is okay and the pups do well without her milk. At least they'll get some mothering.

I'm sure we're all dying to see more pics when you have time. 4 weeks, they must have grown to the size of maybe big mice


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

They are ADORABLE. I will try to get some pics tomorrow if I have time


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

4 weeks isn't early for weaning. Most of my litters are weaned from 2 and a bit weeks (but I do have big critters) Most toy breeders start to wean at 3-4 weeks, so you are probably bang on time. 

You will have to introduce food slowly and supplement milk in between solid food (when I say solid food, I mean kibble/ mince made into a porridge with a lot of full fat goats milk, or puppy milk). Over the period of 5 days, the puppies should go from 1 meal per day up to 5 meals per day, then supplemented with milk in between (left in a shallow tray).

You might want to consider a baby grow for mum so she can have access to the pups without them suckling.


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

a baby grow? What is that? I would love to give her access to them when she comes home, because i know she will be upset otherwise, but wasnt sure how to go about it without the pups sneaking in drinks?


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh, and I dont get 5 days to spread out the weaning....doc says mom is done weaning, right now. So I am trying to just be sure they always have a pan of puppy "mush" in front of them, and another full of water?


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> Oh, and I dont get 5 days to spread out the weaning....doc says mom is done weaning, right now. So I am trying to just be sure they always have a pan of puppy "mush" in front of them, and another full of water?


I would not leave the puppy mush down all the time as it will go bad, start slowly with the weaning start with one feed ( puppy mush ) a day then on day 2 give them too feeds of puppy mush, then by 5 days they should be on 4 or 5 feeds a day


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

How do I only feed them one or two feedings a day though, since Mommy cant nurse them? wont they go hungry?


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

oertels6 said:


> How do I only feed them one or two feedings a day though, since Mommy cant nurse them? wont they go hungry?


One or 2 feeds of puppy mush... but you still let then have milk but not mums milk... goats milk


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh ok...I understand now. Thank you.


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

oertels6 said:


> a baby grow? What is that? I would love to give her access to them when she comes home, because i know she will be upset otherwise, but wasnt sure how to go about it without the pups sneaking in drinks?


A babygrow is an all - in-one, romper suit that babies wear...arms legs pressbuttons up the front...not sure what they are called over there


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

Ohhhhh I see. Thats a cool idea....however, I dont think I can find one small enough to fit her!...LOL

I think even a preemie romper would be big on her...lol


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

oooo bless her....do you not know anyone with kids who may have a dolls one lol..just a thought


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

My daughter dug out one of her preemie "onsies"....it wont have legs, but it will cover her belly, even if its a little big...LOL


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## oertels6 (Dec 28, 2010)

New puppy pics!

**WARNING**......They are just learning to eat, so they are MESSY!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Awww they're so cute


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