# Well if they want to be like that...



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Well if they want to be like that we should start out own "Commonwealth City of Culture".

*EU blocks UK cities from European Capital of Culture bids after Brexit*
https://news.sky.com/story/eu-block...capital-of-culture-bids-after-brexit-11140057


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Does this mean we can get out of the European song contest as well?


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Siskin said:


> Does this mean we can get out of the European song contest as well?


 Noooooo!


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> Noooooo!


When was the last time the UK won?


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Countries have to be an EU /EEA or E FTA to take part.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

stockwellcat. said:


> When was the last time the UK won?


 We don't win because the songs are bloody awful .


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> We don't win because the songs are bloody awful .


I know we won 5 times: 1967, 1969, 1976, 1981, 1997.

Do you think the other 27 countries will vote for the UK when we leave the EU? We have had hardly any votes whilst in the EU since 1997.

If they throw the UK out we could start our own UK song contest. Oh I forgot we already have the X-Factor.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Siskin said:


> Does this mean we can get out of the European song contest as well?


Maybe we could have a Commonwealth Song Contest instead just so we can thumb our noses at them and tell them "up yours"?


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Naughty EU. Tut, tut.
Cannot imagine why we are not wanted....

What about Commonwealth Capitol of Culture then?
Or The Rest of the World Capitol?

Or at least Hobgoblin Capitol of The Shires?


----------



## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

stockwellcat. said:


> Well if they want to be like that we should start out own "Commonwealth City of Culture".
> 
> *EU blocks UK cities from European Capital of Culture bids after Brexit*
> https://news.sky.com/story/eu-block...capital-of-culture-bids-after-brexit-11140057


Out is out ...sitting on the fence is reserved for the Italians. Of course the Uk cannot be included, with the title comes the chance to apply for all sorts of EU funding and the UK doesn't want any of the EU's dirty euros does it?


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> We don't win because the songs are bloody awful .


True, but so are everybody else's! :Happy


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Lurcherlad said:


> True, but so are everybody else's! :Happy


No. Lordii were grrreat!


----------



## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Siskin said:


> Does this mean we can get out of the European song contest as well?


I do hope so


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> No. Lordii were grrreat!


That's why we haven't won since 1997


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

stockwellcat. said:


> When was the last time the UK won?


If we had half a descent singer and song we might stand a chance.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

cheekyscrip said:


> No. Lordii were grrreat!


:Jawdrop


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Oh another naughty blame the EU thread because we're all innocent thread. :Yawn 

Honeslty FFS, of course we can't bloody enter the European Capital of Culture... here's a BIG clue.. some people voted to leave the EU. Blimey eh.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

stockwellcat. said:


> I know we won 5 times: 1967, 1969, 1976, 1981, 1997.
> 
> Do you think the other 27 countries will vote for the UK when we leave the EU? We have had hardly any votes whilst in the EU since 1997.
> 
> If they throw the UK out we could start our own UK song contest. Oh I forgot we already have the X-Factor.


 We came second a few times too.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

We are leaving the EU not Europe

That's in response to @MollySmith


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> Oh another naughty blame the EU thread because we're all innocent thread. :Yawn
> 
> Honeslty FFS, of course we can't bloody enter the European Capital of Culture... here's a BIG clue.. some people voted to leave the EU. Blimey eh.


 perhaps they should call it the EU capital of Culture , then


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> We came second a few times too.


Not the same as being 1st though


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Dr Pepper said:


> We are leaving the EU not Europe
> 
> That's in response to @MollySmith





kimthecat said:


> perhaps they should call it the EU capital of Culture , then


You know what I mean. *European Capital of Culture
*
My insincere apologies for the typo but it gives you all the chance to pick holes. I'd hate to disappoint.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

stockwellcat. said:


> Not the same as being 1st though


 We woz robbed ! 
Mary Hopkin beaten by Dana singing a song so sickly it made me want to puke


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> You know what I mean. *European Capital of Culture
> *
> My insincere apologies for the typo but it gives you all the chance to pick holes. I'd hate to disappoint.


I really don't know what you are on about ? What typo? I didnt notice.

That was a joke. they are calling it the European Capital of Culture , despite our country being in the continent of Europe we are not allowed to enter , only EU or affiliates are allowed to enter so it should be called the EU centre of Culture.

BTW I really don't have to explain myself . You might want to try redirecting your anger else where .


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Interesting side note.. Eurovision song contest includes Russia. That would throw a cat amongst the pigeons having the EU provide grants to Russia if they won Capital of Culture.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> Interesting side note.. Eurovision song contest includes Russia. That would throw a cat amongst the pigeons having the EU provide grants to Russia if they won Capital of Culture.


Doubt they will. They wouldn't join the EU if that is what you are getting at. They'd rather invade it.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Commomwealth City of Culture 
Commonwealth Song Contest 

All sound good seeing as even though we will remain a member of Europe and the EU have taken on there backs out of spite to block our bids for City of Culture.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> I really don't know what you are on about ? What typo? I didnt notice.
> 
> That was a joke. they are calling it the European Capital of Culture , despite our country being in the continent of Europe we are not allowed to enter , only EU or affiliates are allowed to enter so it should be called the EU centre of Culture.
> 
> BTW I really don't have to explain myself . You might want to try redirecting your anger else where .


You don't need to explain it, I get it, but I don't think it's any surprise, the news that is. I am not sure why it's amusing, it's terrible for arts and arts funding.

Apologies for being cross. I am really angry about the animal welfare bill and Brexit threads on here at the moment. It's ridiculously tiresome for anyone who did vote to stay and actually incredibly worrying, with the same old cliques. Time to leave this place for a very very long break I feel.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Goblin said:


> Interesting side note.. Eurovision song contest includes Russia. That would throw a cat amongst the pigeons having the EU provide grants to Russia if they won Capital of Culture.


Eurovision also includes Australia, are they eligible?


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> Eurovision also includes Australia, are they eligible?


ooh that would be a fun one to explain. In fact how come Australia are in the eurovision song contest? Having not watched it for years.. I do remember bucks fizz.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Australia’s host TV broadcaster SBS is part of the European Broadcasting Union, otherwise known as the EBU and Israel also allowed because the Israel Broadcasting Authority is a member of the Eurovision governing body. The BBC is currently still a member of the EBU so Britain can still enter.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> You don't need to explain it, I get it, but I don't think it's any surprise, the news that is. I am not sure why it's amusing, it's terrible for arts and arts funding.
> 
> Apologies for being cross. I am really angry about the animal welfare bill and Brexit threads on here at the moment. It's ridiculously tiresome for anyone who did vote to stay and actually incredibly worrying, with the same old cliques. Time to leave this place for a very very long break I feel.


It was a misunderstanding and I over -reacted .


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

I'm sorry but if certain areas of Europe are not allowed to enter it cannot actually be called the *European* Capital of Culture. It should now be re named the *European Union* Capital Of Culture.

(Though I will just mention that Istanbul, Reykjavík and Stavanger in Norway have all been European Capitals of Culture despite not being part of the EU )

J


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> New Does this mean we can get out of the European song contest as well?


Hahaha! Hope looms eternal!


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stockwellcat. said:


> When was the last time the UK won?


When Cliff Richard was about 22, I think! I'd better check tho'.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

What year was it UK dragged out some really old guy; can't remember who he was? Think he came almost bottom of the list with the usual 'nil points'. He was old and the song was terrible. Who was it @stockwellcat.? You seem knowledgeable on this topic!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Calvine said:


> What year was it UK dragged out some really old guy; can't remember who he was? Think he came almost bottom of the list with the usual 'nil points'. He was old and the song was terrible. Who was it @stockwellcat.? You seem knowledgeable on this topic!


 Englebert Humperdink ?


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Calvine said:


> Think he came almost bottom of the list with the usual 'nil points'. Who was it @stockwellcat.? You seem knowledgeable on this topic!


UK got nul points in 2003 for the song "Cry Baby" by a band called Jemini. We scored absolutely no points for this entry. This was the year it was held in Riga in Latvia.

The Uk also came last in 2008 with Andy Abraham's song which only scored 14 points and in 2010 with Josh Dubovie's song which got 10 points and in 2016 the UK failed to get into the top 10 for the 7th consecutive time with duo's Joe and Jake which finished 24th.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Englebert Humperdink ?


Ah yes, that was the one! Thank you.


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Dr Pepper said:


> We are leaving the EU not Europe
> 
> That's in response to @MollySmith


You have to be either a member of EU or EEA to apply... what does that have to do with Europe??? UK made clear that by 2023 it doesn't want to be part of either of the two... why would it still even try to apply??


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

shadowmare said:


> You have to be either a member of EU or EEA to apply... what does that have to do with Europe??? UK made clear that by 2023 it doesn't want to be part of either of the two... why would it still even try to apply??


Because it's the European Capital of Culture. Bit like having having the Wiltshire Town of Culture and saying Swindon can't take part.


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Dr Pepper said:


> Because it's the European Capital of Culture. Bit like having having the Wiltshire Town of Culture and saying Swindon can't take part.



But it's not the Capital of the European continent  how can you take part in a contest set up for EU and EEA members??? *why* would you want to take part in a contest for members of a club that you decided to leave by the time the prise will be awarded???


----------



## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> We don't win because the songs are bloody awful .


 To be fair they are all awful, we are just voting on the least awful, as for the "City of culture" who are we kidding that has to work on who's turn it is LOL


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

I feel like the line of “We’re leaving EU not Europe” only makes sense to those that keep repeating it... it’s the same as “Brexit means Brexit”. Of course you’re leaving the EU. How would you leave Europe? No bloody referendum would help you leave Europe. It’s a freaking continent. It’s like Brazil deciding to announce tomorrow morning that they voted to leave South America. You staying part of Europe just means that no one is redrawing the world map and renaming UK a continent in its own right (though it would be highly amusing to watch the country squabble about where the line of this continent should be drawn in regards to Ireland...). You leaving EU after 2019 is you walking away from any future investment that comes from EU. That includes any sort of contests that are arranged by EU. I know that this wasn’t on your ballot paper, but you should clarify that with your government as they were the ones who printed them - not the EU


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

shadowmare said:


> I feel like the line of "We're leaving EU not Europe" only makes sense to those that keep repeating it... it's the same as "Brexit means Brexit". Of course you're leaving the EU. How would you leave Europe? No bloody referendum would help you leave Europe. It's a freaking continent.


yes absolutely. it doesn't change anything . but soem of Remainers , they keep saying we're leaving Europe when they mean the EU and its annoying and I always point that out . The crap thrown at Leavers , one being that we are stupid , ignorant etc so i like to point out to Remainers that Europe is a continent because to me when they say this , they are being the ignorant ones.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> yes absolutely. it doesn't change anything . but it's a lot of Remainers , they keep saying we're leaving Europe when they mean the EU and its annoying and I always point that out . The crap thrown at Leavers , one being that we are stupid , ignorant etc so i like to point out to Remainers that Europe is a continent because to me when they say this , they are being the ignorant ones.


Europe isn't just a continent though, it includes Ireland and the UK and Gibraltar. 

Oh I see what you mean. Apologises.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I need to apologise for my spelling and mixed up words recently . I cant be bothered to keep editing but m sure you get my gist !


----------



## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

Toys and pram come to mind.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

> Stavanger in Norway [has] been European Capital of Culture despite not being part of the EU


If I was feeling playful I could point out that this comment, liked by a couple of staunch leavers, confirms that we don't have to leave the single market and customs union while still ceasing to be part of the EU.

But I don't think I will!


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

But I thought Brexit is Brexit?
We are British and not E* at all.
The word E*** should not be used.
It is a family forum!!!

Mods Police!!!
Report!!!
Report!!!


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

It seems to me the only ones who are making a fuss about this are those who voted to leave, those of us who voted remain seem to be able to see the rationale and 'of course' ness of the situation.

You have so many in our country now saying they want every EU national out of the country, saying good riddance, saying how they're glad that applications to come and work here have dropped so low. Basically telling the EU and Europe to stay away from our shores, yet the exact same people expect Europe to want us to be a city of culture, and in being so would be promoting people from Europe to visit our shores.

You can't have it both ways, and we will no longer fit the criteria, so it's obvious, and it's not them throwing their toys out of the pram, they are the rules and we no longer fit into those rules.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

emmaviolet said:


> we no longer fit into those rules.


You will find we do still fit into these rules. There is one crucial thing you are missing out. We haven't left the EU yet. Last time I looked we still have just over 490 days and 7 hours left in the EU (at the time of posting this). So please tell me why are the EU trying to penalise the UK when we haven't left yet? I'd understand if we was actually outside of the EU but we aren't yet.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

emmaviolet said:


> It seems to me the only ones who are making a fuss about this are those who voted to leave, those of us who voted remain seem to be able to see the rationale and 'of course' ness of the situation.
> 
> You have so many in our country now saying they want every EU national out of the country, saying good riddance, saying how they're glad that applications to come and work here have dropped so low. Basically telling the EU and Europe to stay away from our shores, yet the exact same people expect Europe to want us to be a city of culture, and in being so would be promoting people from Europe to visit our shores.
> 
> You can't have it both ways, and we will no longer fit the criteria, so it's obvious, and it's not them throwing their toys out of the pram, they are the rules and we no longer fit into those rules.


Hmmm, I won't turn this into another Brexit thread. I will just no one here ever said we want all EU nationals out.

The issue for me is that we are still part of Europe, always have been and always will be. Whoever is arranging this City of Culture obviously has a huge chip on their shoulder, or maybe they are just idiots who don't realise what Europe consists off, or option three is they simply named it wrong. Frankly I couldn't give a turd about it, they just need to get their facts right.

I bet as the major contributor to Eurovision we will still be part of that until the cows come home.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat. said:


> You will find we do still fit into these rules. There is one crucial thing you are missing out. We haven't left the EU yet. Last time I looked we still have just over 490 days and 7 hours left in the EU (at the time of posting this). So please tell me why are the EU trying to penalise the UK when we haven't left yet? I'd understand if we was actually outside of the EU but we aren't yet.


Because we sort of made them weaker, poorer and they had no vote?
They do not like us.
End of.
Maybe telling them what we think of them is to be blamed?
I think they even warned us that divorce might turn bitter, especially if no deal reached....
We called it " Project Fear".

We want to be out, out. Out. The fast and furious and as far out as could be.

Putin just managed to debilitate USA and split EU fuelling nationalist sentiments...

Now we have perspective of wages lower in 2022 than in 2008.









Of course it is Brexit thread.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Dr Pepper said:


> Hmmm, I won't turn this into another Brexit thread.


Good idea. I won't either.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Decided to delete this post


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

stockwellcat. said:


> You will find we do still fit into these rules. There is one crucial thing you are missing out. We haven't left the EU yet. Last time I looked we still have just over 490 days and 7 hours left in the EU (at the time of posting this). So please tell me why are the EU trying to penalise the UK when we haven't left yet? I'd understand if we was actually outside of the EU but we aren't yet.


'The European commission said it would not be possible because only countries that were in the EU, the European Economic Area (EEA) or in the process of becoming members were eligible for inclusion.'

Which we will not be by that time.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

emmaviolet said:


> 'The European commission said it would not be possible because only countries that were in the EU, the European Economic Area (EEA) or in the process of becoming members were eligible for inclusion.'
> 
> Which we will not be by that time.


So it's not a European City of Culture then is it as all of Europe isn't included. It's the EU/EEA City of Culture.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> So it's not a European City of Culture then is it as all of Europe isn't included. It's the EU/EEA City of Culture.


Those are the rules, you can understand why they would want it that way, it promotes tourism and they can all benefit from it.

If it were us, we would benefit from it, but nobody else in Europe would reap any rewards from it.

It's still a European City of culture though, it's just the way it is.


----------



## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

So we got it with Liverpool in 2008 and before that Glasgow in 1990?

Don't think I'll get too excited over this.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

stockwellcat. said:


> You will find we do still fit into these rules. There is one crucial thing you are missing out. We haven't left the EU yet. Last time I looked we still have just over 490 days and 7 hours left in the EU (at the time of posting this). So please tell me why are the EU trying to penalise the UK when we haven't left yet? I'd understand if we was actually outside of the EU but we aren't yet.


Perhaps it's because it refers to the City of Culture 2023, by which time we might will be out of the EU.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> Hmmm, I won't turn this into another Brexit thread. I will just no one here ever said we want all EU nationals out.
> 
> The issue for me is that we are still part of Europe, always have been and always will be. Whoever is arranging this City of Culture obviously has a huge chip on their shoulder, or maybe they are just idiots who don't realise what Europe consists off, or option three is they simply named it wrong. Frankly I couldn't give a turd about it, they just need to get their facts right.
> 
> I bet as the major contributor to Eurovision we will still be part of that until the cows come home.


Well, there's no avoiding that it's about Brexit, as it's because of it we are now ruled out.

But yes, I have seen people say people from the EU shouldn't be here as they take 'our' jobs, and I have also seen many say it's a good thing that applications have reduced.

They are not 'idiots who don't realise what Europe consists _of' _as they are the rules that have been set and we no longer meet the criteria. It's just how it goes now, and no doubt there will be other things we will be excluded from going forwards, including some pretty important things for our nation and economy, much more important compared to this.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> Well, there's no avoiding that it's about Brexit, as it's because of it we are now ruled out.
> 
> But yes, I have seen people say people from the EU shouldn't be here as they take 'our' jobs, and I have also seen many say it's a good thing that applications have reduced.
> 
> They are not 'idiots who don't realise what Europe consists _of' _as they are the rules that have been set and we no longer meet the criteria. It's just how it goes now, and no doubt there will be other things we will be excluded from going forwards, including some pretty important things for our nation and economy, much more important compared to this.


Custom Unions?
Single Market?
Euroatom?
Erasmus?
But we don't care...
Out, out, out we march...to infinity and beyond....


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> Perhaps it's because it refers to the City of Culture 2023, by which time we might will be out of the EU.


We'll still be in Europe though. It's childish games by the EU and nothing more or less. Thank god we won't be part of it much longer. Bar the bloody Eurovision.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> We'll still be in Europe though. It's childish games by the EU and nothing more or less. Thank god we won't be part of it much longer. Bar the bloody Eurovision.


Not if the rules have been there. It's not petty because we're leaving, it's part of the rules of it.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

emmaviolet said:


> Not if the rules have been there. It's not petty because we're leaving, it's part of the rules of it.


If it doesn't apply to the whole of Europe the title is wrong. I refer you to my Wiltshire/Swindon post.

The EU are not Europe.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> Custom Unions?
> Single Market?
> Euroatom?
> Erasmus?
> ...


Exactly. To hell with the fact we're now facing our right worst economic times and our best ever were those we were in the EU.

We want freedom to decide our own laws, oh wait, we already had that.

Well we want control of our borders, oh wait, we had that too.

Well we want the money, oh wait, there'll be even less money now.

Oh well, we want our soundbite and we want it now, let's get on with it and lose our pots to p in. We're sticking it to the elites like Lord Dyson and Rupert Murdoch....


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

emmaviolet said:


> Exactly. To hell with the fact we're now facing our right worst economic times and our best ever were those we were in the EU.
> 
> We want freedom to decide our own laws, oh wait, we already had that.
> 
> ...


Not a Brexit thread. It's a European City of Culture thread.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> If it doesn't apply to the whole of Europe the title is wrong. I refer you to my Wiltshire/Swindon post.
> 
> The EU are not Europe.


It's not just open to the EU.

And I know the EU is not Europe, but I also have read the rules and we don't qualify.

It's called the Eurovision song contest but Aus take part, it's just a name, but we no longer fit the criteria for this, whatever the given name is.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> Not a Brexit thread. It's a European City of Culture thread.


It's wrapped up in Brexit. It's due to it that we are no longer eligible.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Dr Pepper said:


> Not a Brexit thread. It's a European City of Culture thread.


Who funds it?


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

emmaviolet said:


> It's wrapped up in Brexit. It's due to it that we are no longer eligible.


Maybe, but dont bring the whole Brexit debate into this thread, it's been done.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

cheekyscrip said:


> Who funds it?


I don't know. Don't care really either.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Dr Pepper said:


> I don't know. Don't care really either.


You see...if those money come from EU members...not likely to go to Volgograd...also in Europe.
We wanted our splendid isolation, now we have it.
But as you really don't care...
Who needs Europe?
Anyhow they need us more than we need them?
Right?
If my memory serves me right this is one of the catch phrases of Leavers?


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

@cheekyscrip I am not mentioning the EU/Brexit this week (starting now) to be in for a chance to win your nicest person of the week thread, title and to prove I can be nice


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

cheekyscrip said:


> You see...if those money come from EU members...not likely to go to Volgograd...also in Europe.
> We wanted our splendid isolation, now we have it.
> But as you really don't care...
> Who needs Europe?
> ...


As I saidI couldn't really care less, they just need to get the title right. Who knows Swindon might be far more cultural than whoever they decide. Yes I know


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

stockwellcat. said:


> @cheekyscrip I am not mentioning the EU this week (starting now) to be in for a chance to win your nicest person of the week thread title and to prove I can be nice


 I'm taking bets on how long you last  :Hilarious


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> Maybe, but dont bring the whole Brexit debate into this thread, it's been done.


I'm sorry, are you a mod?

Brexit is relevant as to why we are locked out of this opportunity. So any discussion is on the table, surely? Even if you dislike the truth of the matter. People have expressed joy at being out in this thread, so others can express dismay.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

kimthecat said:


> I'm taking bets on how long you last  :Hilarious


He is a hopeless addict to EU and Hobgoblin.

I despair of him.
Lets get him some nice Eastern European wife before they all are gone...
That will show him the light..


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

emmaviolet said:


> I'm sorry, are you a mod?
> 
> Brexit is relevant as to why we are locked out of this opportunity. So any discussion is on the table, surely? Even if you dislike the truth of the matter. People have expressed joy at being out in this thread, so others can express dismay.


Don't think I'm a mod 

As I said I couldn't care less about the European City of Culture, it certainly wasn't even a minor blimp on the radar when I voted. I'm just amused by the pathetic nature of those organising these things. It's actually quite funny.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> He is a hopeless addict to EU


Stop tempting me to respond using those words  :Hilarious


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> Don't think I'm a mod
> 
> As I said I couldn't care less about the European City of Culture, it certainly wasn't even a minor blimp on the radar when I voted. I'm just amused by the pathetic nature of those organising these things. It's actually quite funny.


You was telling me what I could discuss in this thread, so presumed you were now a mod.

I don't think it's pathetic, there has to be rules in things, especially where there's funding and money in bids involved. In everything you apply for, even just to enter a photo competition there will be rules. So they just have this set of rules that we won't fall into at that time. It's common sense really.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> We'll still be in Europe though. It's childish games by the EU and nothing more or less. Thank god we won't be part of it much longer. Bar the bloody Eurovision.





Dr Pepper said:


> If it doesn't apply to the whole of Europe the title is wrong. I refer you to my Wiltshire/Swindon post.
> 
> The EU are not Europe.


As @emmaviolet points out, it is open only to EU and EEA members, and we are leaving both. So it isn't 'childish games' at all; it's the rules of the competition.

So your beef with the EU in this case is that 'the title is wrong'.

I can only imagine the wave of relief washing across the country when we leave and no longer have to worry about erroneous competition titles. (Sorry; sledgehammer 'wit'! )


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> As @emmaviolet points out, it is open only to EU and EEA members, and we are leaving both. So it isn't 'childish games' at all; it's the rules of the competition.
> 
> So your beef with the EU in this case is that 'the title is wrong'.
> 
> I can only imagine the wave of relief washing across the country when we leave and no longer have to worry about erroneous competition titles. (Sorry; sledgehammer 'wit'! )


So perhaps we can have our own European City of Culture as well with the UK, Switzerland and Australia as participants.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> So perhaps we can have our own European City of Culture as well with the UK, Switzerland and Australia as participants.


I think that would look fittingly sad.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> I think that would look fittingly sad.


I'll agree with you for once!!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Dr Pepper but we'd have more chance of being chosen


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> It was a misunderstanding and I over -reacted .


((hugs)) I was so peeved off with Brexit, tired and fed up of being scared by all this car crash.

I really wanted to apply for a PhD and just don't see the funding there now which is a bit of a first world problem but since the ££ comes from the EU.... well Brexit feels very personal at the moment to me. I can understand why @cheekyscrip is so worried. It's one thing creating threads on a pet forum but when it has a personal impact as it does some, it's deeply saddening.

Anyway, PF is the worst and best place to be somedays and yesterday it was the pits.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

shadowmare said:


> But it's not the Capital of the European continent  how can you take part in a contest set up for EU and EEA members??? *why* would you want to take part in a contest for members of a club that you decided to leave by the time the prise will be awarded???


good luck... :Hilarious:Banghead


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

MollySmith said:


> ((hugs)) I was so peeved off with Brexit, tired and fed up of being scared by all this car crash.
> 
> I really wanted to apply for a PhD and just don't see the funding there now which is a bit of a first world problem but since the ££ comes from the EU.... well Brexit feels very personal at the moment to me. I can understand why @cheekyscrip is so worried. It's one thing creating threads on a pet forum but when it has a personal impact as it does some, it's deeply saddening.
> 
> Anyway, PF is the worst and best place to be somedays and yesterday it was the pits.


Sorry if there was any misunderstanding in my part or if I had annoyed or upset you. It was not intended. Just so you know I am not mentioning the B word for a week  Trying to withdraw from the debates.

Again I sorry if I caused any offense, upset you or annoyed you even.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

stockwellcat. said:


> Sorry if there was any misunderstanding in my part or if I had annoyed or upset you. It was not intended. Just so you know I am not mentioning the B word for a week  Trying to withdraw from the debates.
> 
> Again I sorry if I caused any offense, upset you or annoyed you even.


Sometimes, coming on here when there are lots of threads about Brexit that express seemingly endless innocence or denial about things that many of us who voted to remain could've predicted is very tiresome. 'Fun' threads when the county seems in chaos are poor taste (in my opinion, for whatever that's worth) and once in a while it's worth reminding that actually this has a personal impact on many (which should _always_ be on our minds) and a worry for many. I am affected in two parts of my life and it is a cause for concern.

Your apology is accepted but these threads aren't necessarily always created by you and very rarely fulled by you but certainly by other members and cliques who voted leave. If we must talk Brexit and we certainly should, then out of respect to our moderators and each other, lets do so seriously and with respect.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> presumed you were now a mod.


I can confirm that Dr Pepper is NOT a Mod ... and while we have the ways and means to ensure threads stay civil and on topic, we don't really have the right to dictate what members can or can't post.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

I think this tweet by comedian Mitch Benn says it all.

_UK cities being disqualified from the European Capital of Culture is
NOT the EU being "vindictive"; it's just one more
example of something the Brexiters HADN'T THOUGHT OF_.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> I think this tweet by comedian Mitch Benn says it all.
> 
> _UK cities being disqualified from the European Capital of Culture is
> NOT the EU being "vindictive"; it's just one more
> example of something the Brexiters HADN'T THOUGHT OF_.


The thinking was simple:
1.Will.not pay into EU coffers. More for us - 350 mln for NHS.
2. We will have no foreigners unless we want them but then only select few.

This mantra I hear every day even now.

On the surface it was all good.

People had little understanding of what is to be out of Single Market etc...

They were told not to believe in what EU says"They need us more than we need them".

Sadly people were fed shed loads of lies.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

noushka05 said:


> I think this tweet by comedian Mitch Benn says it all.
> 
> _UK cities being disqualified from the European Capital of Culture is
> NOT the EU being "vindictive"; it's just one more
> example of something the Brexiters HADN'T THOUGHT OF_.


:Hilarious That's probably the funniest thing he's ever said. Yep, if we had thought of the European Capital of Culture remain would have had a landslide. I feel so foolish now.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

cheekyscrip said:


> The thinking was simple:
> 1.Will.not pay into EU coffers. More for us - 350 mln for NHS.
> 2. We will have no foreigners unless we want them but then only select few.
> 
> ...


We were. We were deliberately lied to & for years the right wing media has drip fed us lies about the EU & immigrants. I know people who voted for brexit & I've seen quite a few on social media who have now seen through the lies & are very bravely admitting they were duped into voting leave. I have huge respect for them.

Heres the most recent example told in the Guardian.

_"I feel horrified with myself that I was so gullible," she says heavily. "I feel ashamed."
_
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/25/protest-vote-regret-voting-leave-brexit


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> :Hilarious That's probably the funniest thing he's ever said. Yep, if we had thought of the European Capital of Culture remain would have had a landslide. I feel so foolish now.


You've taken it out of context. Brexit is a disaster on all fronts.

_it's just *one more*
example of something the Brexiters HADN'T THOUGHT OF_.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> :Hilarious That's probably the funniest thing he's ever said. Yep, if we had thought of the European Capital of Culture remain would have had a landslide. I feel so foolish now.


Would that all the other unforeseen consequences of leaving - 'unforeseen' as in overlooked, not researched, not thought through, airily dismissed or deliberately kept hidden - were so easy to laugh off.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> Would that all the other unforeseen consequences of leaving - 'unforeseen' as in overlooked, not researched, not thought through, airily dismissed or deliberately kept hidden - were so easy to laugh off.


That's what makes it so funny. It was a item so trivial it's of absolutely no consequence, it's in the same sphere as mobile roaming and not using the green customs lane (in fact it's way below those two examples). Unlike other more important matters that were considered and weighed up before deciding leave was the preferable option.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> That's what makes it so funny. It was a item so trivial it's of absolutely no consequence, it's in the same sphere as mobile roaming and not using the green customs lane (in fact it's way below those two examples). Unlike other more important matters that were considered and weighed up before deciding leave was the preferable option.


So trivial its sparked outrage of brexiters:Hilarious - look at this thread.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

noushka05 said:


> So trivial its sparked outrage of brexiters:Hilarious - look at this thread.


It's not outrage and not taking part, it's the outrageous notion the EU have that they ARE Europe. If the named iit correctly no one would have paid any attention.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> Unlike other more important matters that were considered and weighed up before deciding leave was the preferable option.


Some bexiteers on here weighed up leaving would be better for farming & fishing. Now these sectors along with finance, car industry etc are all seeking exemptions from brexit. Where were they getting their information from I wonder


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> It's not outrage and not taking part, it's the outrageous notion the EU have that they ARE Europe. If the named iit correctly no one would have paid any attention.


You're just being silly now. Its not the EUs fault we're pulling out so no longer qualify - the sole blame lies with brexiters.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

LOL (courtesy of Alex Andreou )
_
Multiculturalism and the EU destroyed this country. WE ARE LEAVING.

Wait, what do you mean this makes us ineligible for hosting a big EU festival to celebrate multiculturalism? THAT'S SO UNFAIR.

WE WERE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

.From top table to kids' table:

"You can't bid for European Capital of Culture." 
"BUT WHY?"

"Because you wouldn't qualify under the rules."
"BUT WHY?"

"You won't be paying into the programme by then." 
"BUT WHY?"

"You need to be in the EU, the EEA or a Candidate State." 
"BUT WHY?"_


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MilleD said:


> So we got it with Liverpool in 2008 and before that Glasgow in 1990?
> 
> Don't think I'll get too excited over this.


Yet Liverpool was transformed by it, it generated £750 million to the local economy & massively increased tourism.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

noushka05 said:


> You're just being silly now. Its not the EUs fault we're pulling out so no longer qualify - the sole blame lies with brexiters.


What's silly about it? The EU represent what, just over half of the countries in Europe? If they want a European Capital of Culture shouldn't it include all countries? Either that or it's incorrectly named. Thankfully the actual event matters not.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> What's silly about it? The EU represent what, just over half of the countries in Europe? If they want a European Capital of Culture shouldn't it include all countries? Either that or it's incorrectly named. Thankfully the actual event matters not.


I honestly don't know why you find it so hard to understand Does this help? - 
_
Capital of Culture status earns EU financial support so you have to be an EU/EEA Member (or joining) to be eligible. The EU flagged this with the UK a year ago (in writing). It's not petty or vindictive. They're the rules_.

The actually event would have mattered a great deal to the local economy of Leeds or Derry or Nottingham, Milton Keynes, Belfast or Dundee. http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/brexit-european-capital-of-culture

_How tragic is it that Leeds, Derry and Belfast, Nottingham, Dundee and Milton Keynes 
won't get their chance of a piece of the action 
that did so much for Liverpool?

,
_


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> I honestly don't know why you find it so hard to understand Does this help? -
> _
> Capital of Culture status earns EU financial support so you have to be an EU/EEA Member (or joining) to be eligible. The EU flagged this with the UK a year ago (in writing). It's not petty or vindictive. They're the rules_.
> 
> ...


But you forget @noushka05 it's not the fault of anyone who voted for Brexit, it the fault of the EU... 

Heaven forbid that anyone would stick up their hands on here, say they voted Brexit and say they read anything before the vote in June that they knew to be true. Like this. I can't see why there is such a shock about it. It's fairly clear to me why and yet another example of loss of funding incurred by leaving the EU which anyone who voted to leave the EU - at least in PF land anyway - seems in complete denial about and eager to place the blame anywhere but on themselves but perhaps with good reason. When I read about Dominic Cummings and the investigation by the Electoral Commission, I would be defensive too, he certainly spent a lot of money making some rather interesting claims....


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Afraid I haven't read all post, over a hundred to catch up on. But:

We are in the continent of Europe, therefore we are European by definition. 

If we don't pay for our raffle ticket to maybe win some funding, then we can fund our own culture. 

Reasons for leaving the EU will be different for each person. I voted leave in the hope of better animal welfare, I'm afraid I didn't realise that we needed to be in the EU to do things like European song contest etc, but I won't be losing any sleep over it.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Catharinem said:


> Afraid I haven't read all post, over a hundred to catch up on. But:
> 
> We are in the continent of Europe, therefore we are European by definition.
> 
> ...


Sadly we'll still be in Eurovision as it's not a EU event. However it is very similar to the EU in as much as we are one of a few who fund it so everyone else can join in for free.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Sadly we'll still be in Eurovision as it's not a EU event. However it is very similar to the EU in as much as we are one of a few who fund it so everyone else can join in for free.


This is interesting ...

I know you probably didn't mean that literally, but - just for information - do you really still think that the extra revenue flowing into UK government coffers as a result of single market membership does not greatly outweigh the fees that we pay to the EU?

Or is it just the fact that we pay more than most other member nations that upsets you?


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> they keep saying we're leaving Europe when they mean the EU


Yes; the Neverendum thread was full of it.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> we are stupid , ignorant etc


Don't forget 'working class'!


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Dr Pepper said:


> Hmmm, I won't turn this into another Brexit thread.


It's not normally the leavers who do that . . . as you know!


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MollySmith said:


> But you forget @noushka05 it's not the fault of anyone who voted for Brexit, it the fault of the EU...
> 
> Heaven forbid that anyone would stick up their hands on here, say they voted Brexit and say they read anything before the vote in June that they knew to be true. Like this. I can't see why there is such a shock about it. It's fairly clear to me why and yet another example of loss of funding incurred by leaving the EU which anyone who voted to leave the EU - at least in PF land anyway - seems in complete denial about and eager to place the blame anywhere but on themselves but perhaps with good reason. When I read about Dominic Cummings and the investigation by the Electoral Commission, I would be defensive too, he certainly spent a lot of money making some rather interesting claims....


Sorry to keep quoting but this just seemed so apt in response to your post Molly

_How UTTERLY pathetic that the *winning* side of the EU referendum continues to BLAME the *losing* side for the fact that the thing they "won" has turned out to be precisely the towering bonfire of sh*t that we tried to warn them it would be. PATHETIC._



Catharinem said:


> Afraid I haven't read all post, over a hundred to catch up on. But:
> 
> We are in the continent of Europe, therefore we are European by definition.
> 
> ...


How will we fund it? Have you not seen the state of our economy thanks to tory ineptitude & brexit? when we leave we know we're going to be a hell of a lot poorer, we will have even less money for our public services, NHS etc, so no hope of cash for city regeneration. The disaster capitalists are rubbing their hands, they make their money out of crisis like brexit.

Its looking like the predicted 'race to the bottom' for animal welfare, environment, food safety workers rights is already underway as EU legislation whicis ripped up.

I don't know what the Eurovision song contests has to do with it - didn't someone just mention it as a joke?


----------



## Pawscrossed (Jul 2, 2013)

Gods I was born in Blackburn in a house with no running water and have no education so to speak of so I think that's pretty much Northern, working class and ignorant

I hate to dispell any broad sweeping statements @kimthecat but I voted to remain in the EU. Still would.


----------



## Pawscrossed (Jul 2, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> Sorry to keep quoting but this just seemed so apt in response to your post Molly
> 
> _How UTTERLY pathetic that the *winning* side of the EU referendum continues to BLAME the *losing* side for the fact that the thing they "won" has turned out to be precisely the towering bonfire of sh*t that we tried to warn them it would be. PATHETIC._


There was so much stuff out there. My brother voted to leave, was adamant it was the right thing to do because he read all the news and was well informed, he's a lecturer at the University of Salford. Fair dues to him, he did read it all and that was his choice. All the threads about Brexit are full of very well contributors so I am certain you made your choices wisely. My brother is appalled now. So much of what he thought was true is becoming untrue or muddied and as he said to me yesterday 'there's too much at state to fanny about with this.' He's right and I feel so very sorry for anyone who voted to leave and watches the news thinking WTF.

I only voted to remain because I was ignorant. I don't have the understanding that he has or many of you have, I thought it was a safer bet. I don't regret that but at the time I thought I was a bit thick.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Pawscrossed said:


> Gods I was born in Blackburn in a house with no running water and have no education so to speak of so I think that's pretty much Northern, working class and ignorant
> 
> I hate to dispell any broad sweeping statements @kimthecat but I voted to remain in the EU. Still would.


Erm I've got a bit lost here . Is this about my post pointing out the things that are said to the Leavers , by the Remainers ?
I'm not saying them myself nor did I mention working class.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Catharinem said:


> but I won't be losing any sleep over it.


Lord almighty, no! I shouldn't think you will.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Erm I've got a bit lost here .


It's turned into another Brexit thread, that's why. Any excuse for some of them to resurrect it!


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Calvine said:


> It's turned into another Brexit thread, that's why. Any excuse for some of them to resurrect it!


The opening post of a thread entitled "Well if they want to be like that" features a link to a story entitled

*"EU blocks UK cities from European Capital of Culture bids after Brexit"*

So when, exactly, do you think it "turned into" another Brexit thread?


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Pawscrossed said:


> There was so much stuff out there. My brother voted to leave, was adamant it was the right thing to do because he read all the news and was well informed, he's a lecturer at the University of Salford. Fair dues to him, he did read it all and that was his choice. All the threads about Brexit are full of very well contributors so I am certain you made your choices wisely. My brother is appalled now. So much of what he thought was true is becoming untrue or muddied and as he said to me yesterday 'there's too much at state to fanny about with this.' He's right and I feel so very sorry for anyone who voted to leave and watches the news thinking WTF.
> 
> I only voted to remain because I was ignorant. I don't have the understanding that he has or many of you have, I thought it was a safer bet. I don't regret that but at the time I thought I was a bit thick.


And a lot of people like your Brother who voted to leave are thinking WTF too. I also feel sorry for them. I don't feel sorry for those who want brexit no matter the cost though. These people will have to reflect on their closed mindedness when animal welfare goes down the pan, when the environment is trashed & polluted & we're once again known as the dirty man of Europe. When our already crippled NHS is gone & public services are slashed even further. When we are all (but the very rich) made poorer.

I don't mind admitting I actually am thick That's why I put my faith in academics, experts, NGOs I trust on this issue. And all of them bar none said we were safer to remain in the EU. But I was always opened minded which way to vote & had they said the opposite I would have voted to leave. I only wanted to do the best for the environment, animals, the NHS - my country. So I listened to those who were far better informed than I was. And boy am I glad I did. Brexit is turning into complete and utter disaster it was predicted to be, but at least my conscience is clear as is yours 



Arnie83 said:


> The opening post of a thread entitled "Well if they want to be like that" features a link to a story entitled
> 
> *"EU blocks UK cities from European Capital of Culture bids after Brexit"*
> 
> So when, exactly, do you think it "turned into" another Brexit thread?


I think its another 'you can't say anything negative about brexit' thread


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

It seems, for now, our banks are in good shape for a disorderly Brexit .

http://uk.businessinsider.com/bank-of-england-stress-test-results-2017-11?r=US&IR=T
LONDON - Britain's major banks all passed the Bank of England's annual stress tests for the the first time since their introduction in 2014,  the central bank said on Tuesday morning, adding that UK lenders would be alright even in the event of a "disorderly" Brexit.

"For the first time since the Bank of England launched its stress tests in 2014, no bank needs to strengthen its capital position as a result of the stress test," the Bank of England said in a statement.

The stress test is designed to ensure that banks are in possession of right tools - such as sufficient liquidity and relatively strong capital positions - to weather an economic storm. They were administered to the UK's seven largest lenders - Royal Bank of Scotland, HSBC, Barclays, Lloyds, Santander, Nationwide, and Standard Chartered.

"The 2017 stress test shows the UK banking system is resilient to deep simultaneous recessions in the UK and global economies, large falls in asset prices and a separate stress of misconduct costs," the BoE said.

The scenarios used by the Bank of England are pretty apocalyptic, setting out major collapses in a whole heap of asset classes and a massive worsening of economic conditions.As the BoE put it when announcing the test scenario in March, the scenario "incorporates a severe and synchronised UK and global macroeconomic and financial market stress."  You can see more of what it involved here.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> It seems, for now, our banks are in good shape for a disorderly Brexit .
> 
> http://uk.businessinsider.com/bank-of-england-stress-test-results-2017-11?r=US&IR=T
> LONDON - Britain's major banks all passed the Bank of England's annual stress tests for the the first time since their introduction in 2014,  the central bank said on Tuesday morning, adding that UK lenders would be alright even in the event of a "disorderly" Brexit.
> ...


Banks may be able to cope with a disorderly brexit - but what about the people? A disorderly brexit will be devastating for many. We're all going to be poorer but how many, already struggling under tory austerity, are going to find themselves out on the street? A disorderly brexit is the worst possible scenario.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> It seems, for now, our banks are in good shape for a disorderly Brexit .


Strange isn't when the leave campaign talked only about a land full of milk and honey. Now it's an achievement when something passes a test when planning for a "disorderly Brexit". Of course that planning also includes up to 75,000 financial jobs that may plausibly be lost unless a transition period is agreed by Christmas. I'm sure each of those individuals is happy the banks passed and their future is secure.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Goblin said:


> Strange isn't when the leave campaign talked only about a land full of milk and honey. Now it's an achievement when something passes a test when planning for a "disorderly Brexit". Of course that planning also includes up to 75,000 financial jobs that may plausibly be lost unless a transition period is agreed by Christmas. I'm sure each of those individuals is happy the banks passed and their future is secure.


No it's another project fear myth dispelled. It's the first time since the introduction of these test that all banks have passed. And the test have been in place for a few years before the referendum. So banks are more secure now than before Brexit was even an option. That's got to be good and positive news.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Goblin said:


> Strange isn't when the leave campaign talked only about a land full of milk and honey. Now it's an achievement when something passes a test when planning for a "disorderly Brexit". Of course that planning also includes up to 75,000 financial jobs that may plausibly be lost unless a transition period is agreed by Christmas. I'm sure each of those individuals is happy the banks passed and their future is secure.


Its the latest news that was on the all news channels this morning , no one else had posted about it . Am I not allowed to do this then?

ETA I really hope a transition period is agreed before Christmas . is it likely it will be agreed that soon ? That's not much time the way they are going .


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> ETA I really hope a transition period is agreed before Christmas . is it likely it will be agreed that soon ? That's not much time the way they are going .


I think they all pretty much agree that there should be such a period. The chances of them agreeing what it's going to look like before Christmas are zero. In fact when they actually start talking about it, the chances of it happening at all will recede as they argue about all sorts of things, before hopefully coming to some sort of agreement by (imo) the summer.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> No it's another project fear myth dispelled.


Which one, may I ask?


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Arnie83 said:


> I think they all pretty much agree that there should be such a period. The chances of them agreeing what it's going to look like before Christmas are zero. In fact when they actually start talking about it, the chances of it happening at all will recede as they argue about all sorts of things, before hopefully coming to some sort of agreement by (imo) the summer.
> 
> Hope that helps!


 Thanks, I can always rely on you , and yeah it does help .


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> Thanks, I can always rely on you , and yeah it does help .


I should warn that on this, as on many other things, I could be completely wrong!


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Dr Pepper said:


> No it's another project fear myth dispelled. It's the first time since the introduction of these test that all banks have passed. And the test have been in place for a few years before the referendum. So banks are more secure now than before Brexit was even an option. That's got to be good and positive news.


What stress tests created before the brexit referendum as an ongoing check. Nothing really associated with brexit. The fact that even pro brexit media is pushing the idea that the banks can survive problems caused as a result of brexit shows project fear isn't fear but reality.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Arnie83 You're too modest ! 
I agree with you here though . They don't seem to be able to agree on anything at all , there won't be any agreement any time soon.

latest on Twitter. David Davis and Robin Walker regarding the (non ) full release of the impact statements . 
David Davis has avoided being questioned or rather cross examined by Keir Starmer and Robin Walker did it instead . To say Robin isn't doing well is an understatement, squirming would be a better description . They are both in doo doo and could be in contempt of court.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

As to David Davis








So remember: Censorship is a kind of LIE.
Meant to distort the reality of Brexit and dismiss it as Project Fear.

Yes, you were LIED TO.
But you chose whom to believe.
" Who needs experts".
Really?

Britain no longer fifth economy in the world...
Guess why?
You cared nothing how it will impact NI, Gibraltar, financial services , universities, science, culture, even national security.

Or NHS.

Do you really think euro clearing will stay in London?
10000 jobs in financial sector are moving to EU.
Financial services make quarter of a budget...
They will shrink, so will taxes to fund public sector.
But you want out, out, out...
No matter what.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Siskin said:


> Does this mean we can get out of the European song contest as well?


Wouldn't be a day too late


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

shadowmare said:


> But it's not the Capital of the European continent  how can you take part in a contest set up for EU and EEA members??? *why* would you want to take part in a contest for members of a club that you decided to leave by the time the prise will be awarded???


But we are in europe well least I think we are, or are we in another continent?

Now lets think

Asia, africa, antartic, north ameriCa, south america, Australia....


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Duh ! Silly me, ignore my last reply of course it's simple isn't it. Once we leave the EU they are going to Hook us up and tow us out of Europe arnt they?
Yeah right
Seriously you couldn't make it up could you?

Fact! It's a shame I know as I'm not totally happy with our weather but We will ALWAYS be in europe!


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

DT said:


> Duh ! Silly me, ignore my last reply of course it's simple isn't it. Once we leave the EU they are going to Hook us up and tow us out of Europe arnt they?
> Yeah right
> Seriously you couldn't make it up could you?
> 
> Fact! It's a shame I know as I'm not totally happy with our weather but We will ALWAYS be in europe!


So is Volgograd. Anything up to Ural me thinks ...much bigger open spaces then mere Britain. 
Many Tweeters though...

Or Tirana...but then Tirana is queuing for EU..Capitol of Future Culture?


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

DT said:


> Wouldn't be a day too late


That's got to be the title of our next entry.

There's a challenge for you!


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

DT said:


> Wouldn't be a day too late


You mean you _want _to keep Eurovision?

Or perhaps you meant it wouldn't be a day too early!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Look we have a song already

It wouldn't be a day too early
It Wouldn't be a day too late
if we got together ,it'd be for ever
So baby , its just fate


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

kimthecat said:


> Look we have a song already
> 
> It wouldn't be a day too early
> It Wouldn't be a day too late
> ...


Swan song?


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

cheekyscrip said:


> Swan song?


 and there's the title .


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Arnie83 said:


> That's got to be the title of our next entry.
> 
> There's a challenge for you!


For the Bold Brexiteers:

It wouldn't be a day too late
If we were now to celebrate
Onwards and outwards
Never looking backwards
Thinking it was on our plate.

Yes the ship is setting sail
It's far too late to bale
So this talk of betrayal
Is quite beyond the pale. 
This is not the time to fail.

There you go: at least as good as some of our previous entries. Feel free to insert "Tra la la" and "Oh yeah, baby" in any places you fancy. :Headphone


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Ha! Whilst I was typing Kim posted her "so Baby it's just fate"

This songwriting is easy, just say anything you like and shove in a "Baby" or 3. :Writing


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

cheekyscrip said:


> Swan song?


You know they used to stuff swans? Then their goose was truly cooked.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> Ha! Whilst I was typing Kim posted her "so Baby it's just fate"
> 
> This songwriting is easy, just say anything you like and shove in a "Baby" or 3. :Writing


 yeah , you have to have Baby in it somewhere.
BTW yours is brilliant ! you rattled that off in a few minutes !

Now who is going to compose the music ?


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Arnie83 said:


> So when, exactly, do you think it "turned into" another Brexit thread?


When the usual suspects started Brexit-bashing instead of sticking to the topic . . . take a guess.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

I've found some great brexit poems on twitter so I'll post these whilst I pen my own masterpiece 

A sad one to begin with called 'Sentient beings' about the race to the bottom we were warned about. By Jane Darke.



















You'll have to use you imagination for the redacted words lol Another brilliant poem by Luke Wright. Someone with his finger on the pulse of








.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Calvine said:


> When the usual suspects started Brexit-bashing instead of sticking to the topic . . . take a guess.


Ahh look, right on cue 



noushka05 said:


> I've found some great brexit poems on twitter so I'll post these whilst I pen my own masterpiece
> 
> A sad one to begin with called 'Sentient beings' about the race to the bottom we were warned about. By Jane Darke.
> 
> ...


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> When the usual suspects started Brexit-bashing instead of sticking to the topic . . . take a guess.


The topic is brexit. And brexit is a shambles whether you choose to believe it or not.



Dr Pepper said:


> Ahh look, right on cue


I know. I know, you don't want to hear anything negative about brexit. Its blatantly obvious to any one looking at it rationally its already a disaster. So you better keep your eyes closed & your fingers in your ears & try to shut us remoaners down .


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Here’s my entry then:-

Ten billion euros sitting on the wall
Ten billion euros sitting on the wall
And if ten billion euros shouldn’t be enough
There’ll be twenty billion euros sitting on the wall

Twenty billion euros sitting on the wall
Twenty billion euros sitting on the wall
And if twenty billion euros shouldn’t be enough
There’ll be thirty billion euros sitting on the wall

Thirty billion euros sitting on the wall
Thirty billion euros sitting on the wall
And if thirty billion euros shouldn’t be enough
There’ll be forty billion euros sitting on the wall

Forty billion euros sitting on the wall
Forty billion euros sitting on the wall
And if forty billion euros shouldn’t be enough
There’ll be fifty billion euros sitting on the wall

Fifty billion euros sitting on the wall
Fifty billion euros sitting on the wall
And if fifty billion euros shouldn’t be enough
Then :Finger


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Here's my entry then:-
> 
> Ten billion euros sitting on the wall
> Ten billion euros sitting on the wall
> ...


How much were you expecting the exit bill was going to be when you voted to leave, given our commitments?


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> How much were you expecting the exit bill was going to be when you voted to leave, given our commitments?


Exactly the amount the Remain camp kept telling us it would be.....


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Calvine said:


> When the usual suspects started Brexit-bashing instead of sticking to the topic . . . take a guess.


My guess was that it was always a Brexit thread, since the topic of the opening post was the effects of Brexit.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Exactly the amount the Remain camp kept telling us it would be.....


I don't recall that; how much did Remain say the bill would be?


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> I don't recall that; how much did Remain say the bill would be?


Exactly


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Exactly


Ah I see; it's another fact that has come to light since the referendum. I expect it would have been dismissed as 'project fear'.

I keep being reminded of court cases that are reopened when further evidence comes to light. Given how massively important Brexit is, I'm sure all true democrats will be supportive of holding another plebiscite before we take the final decision on the leaving terms, or the rejection of same.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> Ah I see; it's another fact that has come to light since the referendum. I expect it would have been dismissed as 'project fear'.
> 
> I keep being reminded of court cases that are reopened when further evidence comes to light. Given how massively important Brexit is, I'm sure all true democrats will be supportive of holding another plebiscite before we take the final decision on the leaving terms, or the rejection of same.


You'd have though, considering it's quite a large amount, the Remain campaign would have been all over it, surely they would countered the £350,000,000 a week argument with it. Unless of course they had no more idea than the leave camp.

To me personally it wouldn't have changed my vote as it was never about the money.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Arnie83 said:


> My guess was that it was always a Brexit thread, since the topic of the opening post was the effects of Brexit.


You managed to get the B word twice into one sentence; need I say more?


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> The topic is brexit. And brexit is a shambles whether you choose to believe it or not.


The B word twice in one post. But Arnie beat you, having managed to use it twice in one sentence. And he managed the upper case for the B so he is definitely the winner..


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> You'd have though, considering it's quite a large amount, the Remain campaign would have been all over it, surely they would countered the £350,000,000 a week argument with it. Unless of course they had no more idea than the leave camp.
> 
> To me personally it wouldn't have changed my vote as it was never about the money.


I don't think the Remain camp knew how much it was. As I said, new information has come to light, which might well affect the way many people voted.

For others, like yourself, it wouldn't make a difference were we to vote again. That's fine.

But at least you would have facts at your disposal rather than claims such as that we will pay the NHS 350m more a week, or that Turkey are joining the EU, or that we can keep all the benefits of single market membership while leaving, or that the EU is any more corrupt than the UK, etc etc.

And that's democracy, which the original referendum campaign most certainly was not.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Calvine said:


> You managed to get the B word twice into one sentence; need I say more?


If you'll excuse me, I try not to engage in exchanges of this nature, so I won't respond further.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Arnie83 said:


> If you'll excuse me, I try not to engage in exchanges of this nature, so I won't respond further.


Cool.


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> yeah , you have to have Baby in it somewhere.
> BTW yours is brilliant ! you rattled that off in a few minutes !
> 
> Now who is going to compose the music ?


What's that Hugh Grant film where she writes the lines and he puts to music? Bugging me now.


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Here's my entry then:-
> 
> Ten billion euros sitting on the wall
> Ten billion euros sitting on the wall
> ...


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Catharinem said:


> What's that Hugh Grant film where she writes the lines and he puts to music? Bugging me now.


Music and Lyrics


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

That is another body we will not be part of.
May warned about it while campaigning for Remain.








Out of Europol.

That will make us safer?


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Dr Pepper said:


> Here's my entry then:-
> 
> Ten billion euros sitting on the wall
> Ten billion euros sitting on the wall
> ...





Calvine said:


> You managed to get the B word twice into one sentence; need I say more?


Yep we're going to be much better off when we leave the EU...

Welcome to brexitland.

_We're paying tens of billions of pounds to leave the world's largest free trade area while surrendering all of our ability to define its rights & regulations. All so that we can hopefully start negotiating an inferior arrangement with the world's largest free trade area.

_
Barnier


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Welcome to brexitland.


Give it a rest . . . and remember that the B should be upper case as presumably it is the name of an (imaginary) country in your mind.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> Give it a rest . . . and remember that the B should be upper case as presumably it is the name of an (imaginary) country in your mind.


Have you been promoted to forum police or something Calvine? :Watching

Bit by bit brexit is diminishing us.

Brexit: Each little crisis adds up to a whole picture - http://www.heraldscotland.com/opini...we_are_being_diminished_by_Brexit/?ref=twtrec


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Have you been promoted to forum police or something Calvine? :Watching


I try to keep my posts literate.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> I try to keep my posts literate.


Well, good for you. Maybe some people didn't have as good an education as you did though? - and maybe others aren't that bothered if they don't always dot the i's and cross the t's?. It's not very nice to pull people up for lack of accuracy.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Calvine said:


> Give it a rest . . . and remember that the B should be upper case as presumably it is the name of an (imaginary) country in your mind.


All countries are imaginary.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Arnie83 said:


> All countries are imaginary.


Really?


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Dr Pepper said:


> Music and Lyrics


Ive not seen that one. is it any good ? i used to like the Hugh Grant films but they seem much of a sameness nowadays .


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> It's not very nice to pull people up for lack of accuracy.


I'm pretty sure that I'm every bit as 'nice' as you are; but I'm putting you back on ignore NOW as I find you extremely irritating.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Calvine said:


> I'm pretty sure that I'm every bit as 'nice' as you are; but I'm putting you back on ignore NOW as I find you extremely irritating.


I never said I was nice:Smuggrin I think its best you're putting me on ignore, then you wont have to face reality of this brexit shambles. I still seem to be getting trolled on ignore so I do hope it works with you


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Calvine said:


> Really?


Really.

Countries are brought into existence, and erased from existence, by people making pronouncements and writing things on bits of paper. If enough people decide to go along with it, then those countries are born, or die. They exist in our minds, but as real entities? No.

England didn't exist until the 10th century. Yugoslavia ceased to exist in 1992. South Sudan. Czechoslovakia. USA. USSR. etc for every country in the world that currently 'exists' or ever has. Geology didn't change in any of those cases. We just decided that a country would exist, or would not exist, and drew different imaginary lines on maps.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

mmmm, a spiteful EU? surely not...

they owe thier freedom (in the main) to the UK (and later its allies), a fact theyve never quite got used to


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Really?


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Arnie83 said:


> Really.
> 
> Countries are brought into existence, and erased from existence, by people making pronouncements and writing things on bits of paper. If enough people decide to go along with it, then those countries are born, or die. They exist in our minds, but as real entities? No.
> 
> England didn't exist until the 10th century. Yugoslavia ceased to exist in 1992. South Sudan. Czechoslovakia. USA. USSR. etc for every country in the world that currently 'exists' or ever has. Geology didn't change in any of those cases. We just decided that a country would exist, or would not exist, and drew different imaginary lines on maps.


If you say so. I am sure noushka will ''like'' this post!


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> All countries are imaginary.


I would say all countries are non-physical entities rather than imaginary. They exist but not in any physical form.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Arnie83 said:


> England didn't exist until the 10th century..


Really? Mercia (where I live) was the 1st single state, that became Wessex, all based on the Anglo-Saxons,,,,from about 500AD


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> mmmm, a spiteful EU? surely not...
> 
> they owe thier freedom (in the main) to the UK (and later its allies), a fact theyve never quite got used to


Surely not indeed.

_Capital of Culture status earns EU financial support so you have to be an EU/EEA Member (or joining) to be eligible. The EU flagged this with the UK a year ago (in writing). It's not petty or vindictive. They're the rules_.



Calvine said:


> If you say so. I am sure noushka will ''like'' this post!


I liked it ages ago - as you must have seen:Hilarious Gosh are you monitoring posts I like now? Blimey.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Colliebarmy said:


> Really? Mercia (where I live) was the 1st single state, that became Wessex, all based on the Anglo-Saxons,,,,from about 500AD


Quite right. Which is why I said "England" didn't exist until the 10th century.

Mercia and Wessex, of course, no longer exist, because we no longer think they do.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Mirandashell said:


> I would say all countries are non-physical entities rather than imaginary. They exist but not in any physical form.


It's a semantic point, but if they only exist in our heads - which is where such non-physical entities must exist - then, by definition they are imaginary.

Our thoughts brought them into existence, and other people decided to endorse the idea.

I must admit when I first read the idea - "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" Yuval Noah Harari - I didn't like the word 'imaginary', but the product of human thought, with no physical being, must be exactly that, pretty much by definition!

Probably not that important, though!


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Hmmm..... I see what you are saying but .... when the countries exist they have no physical entity but they exist outside of our imaginations. I guess it depends on how you define the word 'imagination'.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

This is an interesting debate , so who decided what the Continents should be, especially if some countries can be in both like Russia . 
Im still not sure whether the Arctic and Antarctic are continents.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

The Antarctic is cos it's frozen land. The Arctic isn't cos it's frozen sea water.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Mirandashell said:


> Hmmm..... I see what you are saying but .... when the countries exist they have no physical entity but they exist outside of our imaginations. *I guess it depends on how you define the word 'imagination'*.


Something we've thought up!


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Yeah, but there's lot of things we've thought up that we don't regard as products of our imagination. Like justice and equality and fairness.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Mirandashell said:


> Yeah, but there's lot of things we've thought up that we don't regard as products of our imagination. Like justice and equality and fairness.


Yeah and hypocrisy too.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Mirandashell said:


> Yeah, but there's lot of things we've thought up that we don't regard as products of our imagination. Like justice and equality and fairness.


You're getting a bit metaphysical for me there. (Though I've read some research recently showing that babies are born with an innate sense of fairness, which was very interesting.)

I'll just fall back on the fact that countries don't exist unless we say they do, and that therefore their existence depends entirely on our ideas and on others' acceptance of them.

But having planted a seed of thought, I'll stop now and leave it with you to agree or not, as you wish.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

kimthecat said:


> Yeah and hypocrisy too.


Not sure about that one. Hypocrisy arises out of deceit and that's innate. As has been shown in studies of children.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> You're getting a bit metaphysical for me there. (Though I've read some research recently showing that babies are born with an innate sense of fairness, which was very interesting.)
> 
> I'll just fall back on the fact that countries don't exist unless we say they do, and that therefore their existence depends entirely on our ideas and on others' acceptance of them.
> 
> But having planted a seed of thought, I'll stop now and leave it with you to agree or not, as you wish.


 I wasn't aware of that research. Do you have a link? Although..... children do sometimes not have to be taught to share and can be quite empathic. So I guess fairness in children could arise from that?

I agree with you that a country is a shared non-physical concept. It's just the word 'imagination' I was struggling with.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Arnie83 said:


> Quite right. Which is why I said "England" didn't exist until the 10th century.
> 
> Mercia and Wessex, of course, no longer exist, because we no longer think they do.


You speak for yourself

(Tamworth was the capital of Mercia and our police are West mercia, so it does still exist)

this LAND is far older than some title imposed on it (i actually prefer us to be Celts) and dont start me on about Saint George and his flag.....


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

I think our problem is the flag of St George... A red cross on a white background concocted for the crusades...a flag (and saint) we have to share with many countries, whereas....

We could have the White dragon (rampant) that defeated Yr Ddraig Goch (look you) or (my choice) the Wyvern...


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Colliebarmy said:


> You speak for yourself
> 
> (Tamworth was the capital of Mercia and our police are West mercia, so it does still exist)
> 
> this LAND is far older than some title imposed on it (i actually prefer us to be Celts) and dont start me on about Saint George and his flag.....


LAND?

Well, yes, it's been here for millions of years. Billions, some of it.

H. sapiens has inhabited 'our' bit of it (continuously) for about 12,000 years now. About 1500 years _less_ than we've been continuously in what we now call the USA, as it happens.

For a few hundred years (guessing with that figure cos I don't know) we called bits of it Mercia and Wessex and Northumberland, etc. Then the 7 kingdoms came together and we called it a country and gave it the name of England. Much later, the United Kingdom ...

The Land didn't change much.

If you think countries are real physical entities, that's up to you, but humans made them up, and very recently if you consider how long we've been around compared to the planet we live on.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> It's a semantic point, but if they only exist in our heads - which is where such non-physical entities must exist - then, by definition they are imaginary.
> 
> Our thoughts brought them into existence, and other people decided to endorse the idea.
> 
> ...


You don't half talk some rubbish. I'm currently stood on a very physical part of England. Yes it's called England because humans named it. We drew lines on a map and created countries, yes created them and once something is created it exists.

Going on your ridiculous theory you don't exist as Arnie is just a word imagined by your parents and written down on a piece of paper, you know just the same as a country. Laws don't exist because they were just imagined and written down on a piece of paper, try walking down Oxford Street wielding a machete and you'll find out just how real those laws are. The very medium you used to write that post doesn't exist. It's all held in code on a chip, you can't actually see it for love or money, there's no physical evidence of it but it definitely exists.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> You don't half talk some rubbish. I'm currently stood on a very physical part of England. Yes it's called England because humans named it. We drew lines on a map and created countries, yes created them and once something is created it exists.
> 
> Going on your ridiculous theory you don't exist as Arnie is just a word imagined by your parents and written down on a piece of paper, you know just the same as a country. Laws don't exist because they were just imagined and written down on a piece of paper, try walking down Oxford Street wielding a machete and you'll find out just how real those laws are. The very medium you used to write that post doesn't exist. It's all held in code on a chip, you can't actually see it for love or money, there's no physical evidence of it but it definitely exists.


It's not actually _*my*_ "ridiculous theory", but that of others more intelligent than me who have thought in considerable depth and reached logical conclusions.

What you are really saying is that non-physical existence is the same as physical existence. By your definition Donald Duck exists. If he does, then it is only in our heads, surely? Like Father Christmas. And God.

But you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I wouldn't be so rude as to call it "rubbish".

A question for you to ponder, though. If I declared that my house was a country, would it then exist as such? Or could that only happen with the acceptance by others of my assertion?


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> A question for you to ponder, though. If I declared that my house was a country, would it then exist as such? Or could that only happen with the acceptance by others of my assertion?


Of course not as you are bound by your countries laws (you know, those imaginary ones). Hitter found out not so long ago that countries actually exist and you can't just declare that a parcel of land is now governed by yourself.


----------



## Guest (Dec 3, 2017)

This must be one of the most bizarre thread, I tried to figure out what was it about, but it was beyond me. Something about Eu, Eurovision, Europe, land, countries, humans and existencialism. So I guess this is as good as any other response, as I don´t get this either.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> Of course not as you are bound by your countries laws (you know, those imaginary ones). Hitter found out not so long ago that countries actually exist and you can't just declare that a parcel of land is now governed by yourself.


Okay, so my new country would only exist in my mind, because not enough people treat it as though it is real. Like South Sudan, when someone first thought it would be a good idea. But then enough people got on board with that idea, and a new country eventually did exist. Nothing physical changed. Nothing real was created. But people accepted that a new country was there.

If something isn't real, then it is imaginary. If you think something up, then it doesn't really exist. It remains the product of your imagination and regardless of how many people believe in it, it remains part of the now collective imagination.

We treat some things as real because it suits us to do so. Because there would be chaos otherwise. Like countries, and, yes, like the laws that govern them. But these things have no physical existence. They are not real. They are imaginary.

Does Donald Duck exist? Or is he imaginary?
Father Christmas?
England?
All of them were simply thought up, and exist only in our minds.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

MrsZee said:


> This must be one of the most bizarre thread, I tried to figure out what was it about, but it was beyond me. Something about Eu, Eurovision, Europe, land, countries, humans and existencialism. So I guess this is as good as any other response, as I don´t get this either.


It has drifted off topic a bit, but it's more fun than Brexit!


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Arnie83 said:


> It has drifted off topic a bit,* but it's more fun than Brexit*!


Anything is better than Brexit....


----------



## Guest (Dec 3, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> It has drifted off topic a bit, but it's more fun than Brexit!





Happy Paws said:


> Anything is better than Brexit....


So true. And didn´t someone mention Lord - our first (and last) Eurovision winner, so this must be the best thread ever.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

So what's happened here?

We seem to have drifted onto Brexit and I don't know what else. Oh well. If a mod comes on this thread please close it as it seems to have run its course. Thank you.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

MrsZee said:


> So true. And didn´t someone mention Lord - *our first (and last) Eurovision winner, s*o this must be the best thread ever.


Up to and including 1998, the *UK* had only twice finished outside the top 10, in 1978 (11th) and 1987 (13th), *with their five winners* being Sandie Shaw with the song "Puppet on a String" in 1967, Lulu with "Boom Bang-a-Bang" in 1969 (tied), Brotherhood of Man with "Save Your Kisses for Me" in 1976, Bucks Fizz with " ...


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Happy Paws said:


> Up to and including 1998, the *UK* had only twice finished outside the top 10, in 1978 (11th) and 1987 (13th), *with their five winners* being Sandie Shaw with the song "Puppet on a String" in 1967, Lulu with "Boom Bang-a-Bang" in 1969 (tied), Brotherhood of Man with "Save Your Kisses for Me" in 1976, Bucks Fizz with " ...


I don't think @MrsZee 's "our" is the UK.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat. said:


> We seem to have drifted onto Brexit and I don't know what else.


_*Anything can happen in the next half hour!*_


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

MrsZee said:


> tried to figure out what was it about,


What it has derailed to, regardless of how it started, is an argument as to whether ALL countries are imaginary (possibly because I pointed out that 'Brexitland', was, indeed, a figment of one particular poster's imagination). Ever quick to show solidarity with this particular poster, a second poster then informed me (and anyone else who was interested) that ALL countries were imaginary; and stockwellcat.'s thread has predictably deteriorated since then. I know that I can catch a plane to Spain. If I asked for a return ticket to Brexitland, I imagine they would call security. I rest my case.
@stockwellcat.: Sorry your thread has become shambolic.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Im still not sure whether the Arctic and Antarctic are continents.


I never did geography either!


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Calvine said:


> 'Brexitland'











:Hilarious


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)




----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

@stockwellcat.: Love both of these!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MrsZee said:


> This must be one of the most bizarre thread, I tried to figure out what was it about, but it was beyond me. Something about Eu, Eurovision, Europe, land, countries, humans and existencialism. So I guess this is as good as any other response, as I don´t get this either.


I like the bizarreness.  Its practical on forums to stick to the topic but in real life conversations are more natural 
and go off tangent and are more the enjoyable for it .


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Calvine said:


> What it has derailed to, regardless of how it started, is an argument as to whether ALL countries are imaginary (possibly because I pointed out that 'Brexitland', was, indeed, a figment of one particular poster's imagination). *Ever quick to show solidarity with this particular poster*, a second poster then informed me (and anyone else who was interested) that ALL countries were imaginary; and stockwellcat.'s thread has predictably deteriorated since then. I know that I can catch a plane to Spain. If I asked for a return ticket to Brexitland, I imagine they would call security. I rest my case.
> @stockwellcat.: Sorry your thread has become shambolic.


It was purely an intellectual comment on your description. Please don't ascribe assumed motives to my posts. Thank you.

And, like it or not, all countries are indeed the products of human imagination, and nothing else.

But since, as in so many other threads, ridicule is now taking the place of discussion, I'll bow out.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" 

ETA We have land masses and we have seas , that's what we know exists and not our imaginations . I would then say that Continents are our imagination too.


----------



## Dr Pepper (Jan 17, 2017)

Arnie83 said:


> It was purely an intellectual comment on your description. Please don't ascribe assumed motives to my posts. Thank you.
> 
> And, like it or not, all countries are indeed the products of human imagination, and nothing else.
> 
> But since, as in so many other threads, ridicule is now taking the place of discussion, I'll bow out.


No one has questioned the fact countries are the product of imagination. It was the daft notion they are not physical entities that's the problems. You've only got to look at any atlas to see where a countries physical boundaries are.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"


Interesting question. 

A sound-wave is the compression and rarefaction of the medium through which it is travelling but doesn't actually become an audible 'noise' unless there is an ear capable of translating it into a sound via e.g. an ear-drum. If, therefore there is no-one (and no animal) with functioning ears to intercept the sound-wave caused by the falling tree, then; No, it doesn't!

In my opinion, anyway. Other opinions are no doubt available.


----------



## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dr Pepper said:


> No one has questioned the fact countries are the product of imagination. It was the daft notion they are not physical entities that's the problems. You've only got to look at any atlas to see where a countries physical boundaries are.


To coin a phrase, I don't think we're on the same wavelength.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Dr Pepper said:


> No one has questioned the fact countries are the product of imagination. It was the daft notion they are not physical entities that's the problems. You've only got to look at any atlas to see where a countries physical boundaries are.


The problem is that for various reasons borders can be altered which is the main cause of many of the wars in the world today. Hungary is a good example of what happens when you carve a country up.

http://www.hunsor.se/trianon/treatyoftrianon1920.htm

As was the Balfour Declaration with the resultant consequences we're all aware of!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...stine-arthur-james-balfour-lord-a8033556.html

Talking about figments of the imagination. The first live in maid we had in South Africa believed that England was in heaven. The house wasn't too far from the airport and and on the path of planes coming and going to the UK. Apparently whenever her previous owners relatives visited from the UK, her employer would point to a plane in the sky and tell her it was the plane they were on. Naturally as she'd never seen a plane take off or land she thought the plane was arriving from or going to heaven!


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

@stockwellcat. Done.

:Locktopic


----------

