# New dogs pregnant help.



## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

So yeah I took on a dog 3 weeks ago and took her to the vets thursday for a wellness check as she seemed a bit under the weather and she's pregnant, like 7-8 weeks pregnant.
I'm really stuck. I got insurance for her the day I got her but they don't cover pregnancy related issues.
My husband made a whelping box for her last night but I've got literally no money spare. I spent what little savings I did have on the original check up, her boosters and then a ultrasound so all in £143 I have literally £47 left and and expected due date of the 17th feb.
Can anybody advise me on help with vet bills like if she's needs a c section etc. I've asked my vet but they don't do payment plans, the pdsa can't help and the rspca have said they can help but only on a Monday and Wednesday at their clinic (I don't think this would include a emergency section).
I don't want to give her up as she's obviously been through hell and has settled with us really well. I have a poor credit score so a credit card is out of the question and I have no friends or family that can lend me any money.
Thanks


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Whilst some bitches do end up needing a C Section, many don't. Certain Breeds are more likely to need intervention. What Breed is your bitch?

Where did you get her from?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum.
> 
> Whilst some bitches do end up needing a C Section, many don't. Certain Breeds are more likely to need intervention. What Breed is your bitch?
> 
> Where did you get her from?


Hi she is a staffy and everyone keeps telling me they hope I've got £800+ for a section so it's really got me worried.
We actually got her from a couple that was walking past the house. The dog had stood on some broken glass and was bleeding everywhere and I asked if they needed help. They'd only had her a week but couldn't keep her due to housing so I said I'd take her. I found out that ours is the 4th home she's had and she was given away by owner #2 so say because she wrecked the xmas tree, was chewing everything and started toileting in the house. I don't believe this for a second and I honestly believe they knew she was pregnant. They had a male staffy there but whether he's the dad or not I don't know. The ppl I got her off (owner #3) is being really great about it and they have offered lifts to the vets etc as I don't drive and they have offered to find her somewhere else to live but tbh she's settled really well and if I'm honest we've fallen in love with her


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Don't allow thoughtless people to worry you with their stupid remarks.

Of course, it's always a possibility that any bitch may need a Section, but the majority deliver normally.

It seems likely that, if her previous owners had a male Staffy, he is the Father of these pups.

I would have a chat to your Vet about any treatment she may need and ask whether you could maybe work out a plan with him where you could pay in instalments. 

Right now, she needs to be on a good quality, complete puppy food and I would ask your Vet's advice about worming. She should have been on a worming programme, but it's too late for that now. See what he advises.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh poor wee button - so glad she's found you now and so sorry you've been left with picking up the pieces of others' stupidity

Sorry no useful advice to offer but didn't not want to say anything 

How old is she?

Most births go smoothly so will keep everything crossed that this is the case here too


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Don't allow thoughtless people to worry you with their stupid remarks.
> 
> Of course, it's always a possibility that any bitch may need a Section, but the majority deliver normally.
> 
> ...


The vet we saw won't do payment plans and to just phone if she runs into difficulties. Not very helpful.
I did worm her myself when we got her before I found out.
Yes I'm in the process of changing her to puppy food.
I forgot to mention the kicker in all of this that might mean she's at higher risk... she turned 1 on the 31st Jan so she was just 10 months old when she got pregnant so her first season poor girl.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Lilylass said:


> Oh poor wee button - so glad she's found you now and so sorry you've been left with picking up the pieces of others' stupidity
> 
> Sorry no useful advice to offer but didn't not want to say anything
> 
> ...


Unfortunately she just turned 1 on the 31st Jan so she was just 10 months old
I was so cross but of course my anger isn't going to help her now.
There's more to it about how she's been treated but she's doing really well so I'm putting all that on the back burner for now and dealing with the major stuff first.


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your situation, and hope that things don't go to the "worst case" scenario. Whereabouts are you, by the way?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> The vet we saw won't do payment plans and to just phone if she runs into difficulties. Not very helpful.
> I did worm her myself when we got her before I found out.
> Yes I'm in the process of changing her to puppy food.
> I forgot to mention the kicker in all of this that might mean she's at higher risk... she turned 1 on the 31st Jan so she was just 10 months old when she got pregnant so her first season poor girl.


Oh dear. Her age could be a problem, but it may well be that she copes, so try not to worry too much.

Do you know anyone with breeding experience who could be there when she has the pups?

She's a lucky girl she has you to take care of her. We have a ten month old Staffy girl and I have a huge soft spot for them.

Some of us here do have breeding experience so do stay around and we'll do our best to help.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

miljar said:


> Sorry to hear about your situation, and hope that things don't go to the "worst case" scenario. Whereabouts are you, by the way?


Hi I'm in Gloucestershire.


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

OK, thank you. Too far for me to be of any use, I am sorry to say.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Oh dear. Her age could be a problem, but it may well be that she copes, so try not to worry too much.
> 
> Do you know anyone with breeding experience who could be there when she has the pups?
> 
> ...


Hi no I don't know anyone I did try to Google breeding mentors but didn't come up with much.
I did watch one of my previous dogs come into the world but he was a rottie and his mum was a pro (her 3rd and last litter) but that was 12 years ago now and I've unfortunately lost touch with the breeder.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

miljar said:


> OK, thank you. Too far for me to be of any use, I am sorry to say.


Oh bless you. I've been watching as many whelping videos as possible on you tube so I have a fair idea of what to watch for and things that are completely normal


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Oh bless you. I've been watching as many whelping videos as possible on you tube so I have a fair idea of what to watch for and things that are completely normal


Ha Ha - I didn't mean me - you're better off with a video. If you had been nearer then I may have been able to help in getting you a vet, just in case. Good Luck.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

miljar said:


> Ha Ha - I didn't mean me - you're better off with a video. If you had been nearer then I may have been able to help in getting you a vet, just in case. Good Luck.


Oh lmao I meant bless you for trying to help to everyone - I didn't realise I had quoted you. Soz lol


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

I had a funny feeling from your OP that she was quite young - fingers crossed all goes well


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## Maria_1986 (May 15, 2011)

Will keep my fingers crossed that it all goes well. Should there be a priblem the blue cross will provide a grant for up to £200 for emergancy caesarean, might not cover it all but could help? There are certain criteria though to qualify. Once you have got through her pregnancy, because she is a bull breed they will also help with the cost of getting her spayed.

https://www.bluecross.org.uk/grants-and-vouchers


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Maria_1986 said:


> Will keep my fingers crossed that it all goes well. Should there be a priblem the blue cross will provide a grant for up to £200 for emergancy caesarean, might not cover it all but could help? There are certain criteria though to qualify. Once you have got through her pregnancy, because she is a bull breed they will also help with the cost of getting her spayed.
> 
> https://www.bluecross.org.uk/grants-and-vouchers


Oh ok thank you I will look at that now.
Yes I've already spoken to the vet about spaying and she said that we can get her spayed no sooner than 8 weeks.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Is there a local Staffy rescue (or general rescue) you could contact - not to hand her over but to help with the whelping (likely someone's there who has more experience), and with finding homes for the pups. 
Get some disposable surgical gloves, and some lubricant (the stuff I got was next to the condoms!) to help ease the first pup out. The only wormer licensed for use in pregnant bitches is Panucur 10% liquid, also best for worming the pups. It's cheaper to buy online than from the vet.
Good luck.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Burrowzig said:


> Is there a local Staffy rescue (or general rescue) you could contact - not to hand her over but to help with the whelping (likely someone's there who has more experience), and with finding homes for the pups.
> Get some disposable surgical gloves, and some lubricant (the stuff I got was next to the condoms!) to help ease the first pup out. The only wormer licensed for use in pregnant bitches is Panucur 10% liquid, also best for worming the pups. It's cheaper to buy online than from the vet.
> Good luck.


No we don't have a staffy rescue near to us unfortunately. I ordered a whelping kit which has come today and just in the nick of time by the looks of it as she might be in the early 1st stages. 
X


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

good luck and keep us posted, fingers crossed for her you and the pups.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Keep us updated, we're all rooting for you.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Best of luck. Give us a shout if you need.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Phoned vet for advice but they wanted her to go in for check up and shes in the very early 1st stage of labour and he doesn't need to see her again until Wednesday but he thinks it'll be tonight or tomorrow.
Getting anxious again now


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Phoned vet for advice but they wanted her to go in for check up and shes in the very early 1st stage of labour and he doesn't need to see her again until Wednesday but he thinks it'll be tonight or tomorrow.
> Getting anxious again now


I don't blame you one little bit for feeling anxious, but it is important you stay as calm as you can now for the sake of your bitch.

The signs of later stage labour are panting, nesting/digging and trembling. She may try to go off into strange places, but be firm and keep her in or by her whelping box.

You will see when she begins to push. If she pushes for more than twenty minutes with no pup, ring your vet. Once the first pup is born, she should clear away the sac, bite through the cord and swallow the placenta. Keep a careful eye that she's doing that and be ready to help if she doesn't.

She will lick the pup a lot and that's normal. When she delivers the second one, she will scrabble around to get to her back end, so move the first pup out of the way at that point.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> I don't blame you one little bit for feeling anxious, but it is important you stay as calm as you can now for the sake of your bitch.
> 
> The signs of later stage labour are panting, nesting/digging and trembling. She may try to go off into strange places, but be firm and keep her in or by her whelping box.
> 
> ...


I know im trying to stay calm. I'm one of those anxious ppl by nature but some times if it all hits the fan I seem to go into auto pilot so I hoping that's what will happen when the time comes. My hubby will be with me as well.
I've got a laundry basket set up with a blanket in the bottom and a hot water bottle ready for the first pups while she's whelping the next ones (is it ok to return the pups between each one so they can nurse or should I wait until she's completely finished)
I've got my weighing scales, clock and a pen and paper ready as well to record things.
I know this might sound silly but is it really gross when she eats the placenta or is it gone in 1 go? I know she should only eat 1 or 2. I didn't pay much attention after my boy was born as I was helping weigh him and then making drinks for the breeder lol


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> I know im trying to stay calm. I'm one of those anxious ppl by nature but some times if it all hits the fan I seem to go into auto pilot so I hoping that's what will happen when the time comes. My hubby will be with me as well.
> I've got a laundry basket set up with a blanket in the bottom and a hot water bottle ready for the first pups while she's whelping the next ones (is it ok to return the pups between each one so they can nurse or should I wait until she's completely finished)
> I've got my weighing scales, clock and a pen and paper ready as well to record things.
> I know this might sound silly but is it really gross when she eats the placenta or is it gone in 1 go? I know she should only eat 1 or 2. I didn't pay much attention after my boy was born as I was helping weigh him and then making drinks for the breeder lol


You won't see her eat the placenta. I never did with any of my bitches and remember, with a pup, the placenta is very small, probably the size of a cherry tomato, she won't be chewing on it whilst you watch in horror. 

It's okay to move pups away whilst she's delivering another but yes, do put them back on Mum as soon as the new pup is here. Her licking them warms them up and stimulates them to feed.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> You won't see her eat the placenta. I never did with any of my bitches and remember, with a pup, the placenta is very small, probably the size of a cherry tomato, she won't be chewing on it whilst you watch in horror.
> 
> It's okay to move pups away whilst she's delivering another but yes, do put them back on Mum as soon as the new pup is here. Her licking them warms them up and stimulates them to feed.


Oh right ok that's ok then last thing anyone will need is me being ill lol


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

I haven't fully read all of the replies but our 2nd dog came from a scenario similar to yours except the owner didn't know she was pregnant until she'd had the pups. If I recall correctly & if he told me the truth, dogs trust said they'd take in the dog & pups and they'd raise them then he'd get his dog back once pups were old enough. 2years ago now though. Not sure if that helps. I wish you the best of luck  very hard situation to be in, we saw it first hand & tried to help where we could along with advice from the forum to pass on  @Sweety was amazing with her advice


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> No we don't have a staffy rescue near to us unfortunately. I ordered a whelping kit which has come today and just in the nick of time by the looks of it as she might be in the early 1st stages.
> X


Oh wow. Keep us posted and good luck!


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

No puppies yet but she's started making a strange noise on and off


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

good luck hope it goes smoothly, is she panting, or pushing. Mine used to shake sometimes when she was in labour.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

colliemerles said:


> good luck hope it goes smoothly, is she panting, or pushing. Mine used to shake sometimes when she was in labour.


She's panting but not excessively, it sounds more like she's sleeping but she's wide awake. No pushing yet and I can't feel any contractions. The pups aren't kicking as much but I can feel and see them moving about.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Hope it all goes smoothly for you. Once labour starts properly you can't miss it, contractions are visible. Time how long she's contracting between puppies, stopping for a rest is ok, but issue's pushing for more than 20 mins and there's no puppy appearing call vet for advice. First puppy mat take longer as she opens up, but once contracting properly and regularly you should see first puppy within half hour, and definitely an hour needs a vet call.
If it's her first whelping she may get too enthusiastic about nibbling cords down to their tummies, be prepared to move puppy away from her and break cord yourself if needed ( tear, not cut, and always hold firmly an inch to a cm from tummy and again further up cord and an from tummy. You're breaking the cord with a cm to an inch spare still on the puppy. Never pull cord away from tummy or puppy can haemorrhage. If it still bleeds a little after breaking or biting pinch the end hard for 1 min, release gradually and pinch again immediately if bleeding continues. A bit if oozing is normal,,but no squirting or heavy bleeding. Make sure the membrane from near the nose is broken too, some bitches are so interested in the cord they forget the front end and the puppy can't breath. It's only reaching in and breaking membrane with fingernail and thumb, but saves lives. Goid luck and try to enjoy the experience!


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Waters have broken


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

You should have your first pup very soon.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> You should have your first pup very soon.


Yes I think so she is quietly whining and lots of sighing and looking at her bum occassionally


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

You will see when she begins pushing/straining and do keep an eye on the clock once that begins. Best of luck.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

This is getting exciting. Do hope all goes well and it would be lovely to have some photos once it's all over.

Lots of good luck


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> You will see when she begins pushing/straining and do keep an eye on the clock once that begins. Best of luck.


Should I be timing the contractions? Or just timing once she starts pushing?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Once she begins pushing, watch the time until the pup appears.

If she's pushing for more than twenty minutes, with no pup, then you need to give your Vet a call.


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## StrawberryBlonde (May 27, 2015)

Iv only just come across this thread & by the looks of it things are happening! I just wanted to say that even though you didn't ask for this situation, massive well done for sticking by the girl & helping her through! Your doing a great job & seem to know what your doing  Sending good vibes. Im from Cheltenham but Im not there atm or else id offer a hand x


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Hope everything is ok and no news is good news


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

So we popped to the vets as no pups appeared. It seems that dh was wrong it wasn't waters as far as the vet can tell. He said he believes she had an accident which can happen apparently. So I feel rather silly now. 
The vet does expect her to go soon though and she has had 2 very loose bowel movements (sorry tmi).


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

lovemydogs86 said:


> So yeah I took on a dog 3 weeks ago and took her to the vets thursday for a wellness check as she seemed a bit under the weather and she's pregnant, like 7-8 weeks pregnant.
> I'm really stuck. I got insurance for her the day I got her but they don't cover pregnancy related issues.
> My husband made a whelping box for her last night but I've got literally no money spare. I spent what little savings I did have on the original check up, her boosters and then a ultrasound so all in £143 I have literally £47 left and and expected due date of the 17th feb.
> Can anybody advise me on help with vet bills like if she's needs a c section etc. I've asked my vet but they don't do payment plans, the pdsa can't help and the rspca have said they can help but only on a Monday and Wednesday at their clinic (I don't think this would include a emergency section).
> ...


I would suggest you set up a page on GoFundMe or a similar website where you can appeal for donations for vet bills. Lots of people raise money that way for various things. Are you on any benefits at all? If you are, the PDSA will help with money towards private vet bills if you are not in one of their catchment areas. The RSPCA will also help with fees if necessary, so it is worth contacting them. They can certainly afford it. I would also suggest you look round for other vets who will set up an instalment plan or you might be able to get a bank loan? If the dog is a staffie, you might also get some aid from Staffie Rescue if they can afford it, which is unlikely.

Have you anything you can sell? It is surprising what you find when you look.

I hope everything goes all right for you, but please do not ask for donations on this site as your post will be removed. We do not allow requests for donations nor do we allow links to other sites where donations are being asked for.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

newfiesmum said:


> I would suggest you set up a page on GoFundMe or a similar website where you can appeal for donations for vet bills. Lots of people raise money that way for various things. Are you on any benefits at all? If you are, the PDSA will help with money towards private vet bills if you are not in one of their catchment areas. The RSPCA will also help with fees if necessary, so it is worth contacting them. They can certainly afford it. I would also suggest you look round for other vets who will set up an instalment plan or you might be able to get a bank loan? If the dog is a staffie, you might also get some aid from Staffie Rescue if they can afford it, which is unlikely.
> 
> Have you anything you can sell? It is surprising what you find when you look.
> 
> I hope everything goes all right for you, but please do not ask for donations on this site as your post will be removed. We do not allow requests for donations nor do we allow links to other sites where donations are being asked for.


I wouldn't dream of asking strangers for donations to pay my dogs vet bills that's begging which I'm pretty sure is illegal 
I original signed up hoping someone might point me in the right direction of somewhere cheaper or can help with a grant or something.
Then once I was assured that she will probably do fine and well on her own I was given lots of nice replies offering practical advice to get through.
I apologise if you thought I wanted money but I Really dont


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

lovemydogs86 said:


> I wouldn't dream of asking strangers for donations to pay my dogs vet bills that's begging which I'm pretty sure is illegal
> I original signed up hoping someone might point me in the right direction of somewhere cheaper or can help with a grant or something.
> Then once I was assured that she will probably do fine and well on her own I was given lots of nice replies offering practical advice to get through.
> I apologise if you thought I wanted money but I Really dont


I didn't, I was only trying to point you toward places which might be able to help. There is nothing illegal about funding sites, like Go Fund Me. Lots of people in dire straits use them, as do charities needing money for extra things. It is also a fact that many people come here asking for donations, and I didn't want your thread to be removed. That is all; nothing sinister.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

lovemydogs86 said:


> I wouldn't dream of asking strangers for donations to pay my dogs vet bills that's begging which I'm pretty sure is illegal
> I original signed up hoping someone might point me in the right direction of somewhere cheaper or can help with a grant or something.
> Then once I was assured that she will probably do fine and well on her own I was given lots of nice replies offering practical advice to get through.
> I apologise if you thought I wanted money but I Really dont


Newfiesmum appears to be the only one thinking you intended to ask for money here, so don't worry about that one little bit!

I haven't posted as I have nothing useful to add, but have been following this thread. I'm so pleased this dog has found you to take care of her - she looks beautiful if that's her in your avatar, what's her name?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Can anybody actually read here? I never said I thought she was asking for money. I was just giving her a place where she might be able to raise the necessary funds. Never mind.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

SixStar said:


> Newfiesmum appears to be the only one thinking you intended to ask for money here, so don't worry about that one little bit!
> 
> I haven't posted as I have nothing useful to add, but have been following this thread. I'm so pleased this dog has found you to take care of her - she looks beautiful if that's her in your avatar, what's her name?


It really does feel like it's the PF litter . We're all desperately watching to see how things are going


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

SixStar said:


> Newfiesmum appears to be the only one thinking you intended to ask for money here, so don't worry about that one little bit!
> 
> I haven't posted as I have nothing useful to add, but have been following this thread. I'm so pleased this dog has found you to take care of her - she looks beautiful if that's her in your avatar, what's her name?


Yes that's her in the avatar. Her names roxy


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> It really does feel like it's the PF litter . We're all desperately watching to see how things are going


Soz what does pf litter mean not quite got the shorthand down on this forum yet ☺


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> Can anybody actually read here? I never said I thought she was asking for money. I was just giving her a place where she might be able to raise the necessary funds. Never mind.


*Your post came across to me, only that you were offering ways to help. *


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

newfiesmum said:


> Can anybody actually read here? I never said I thought she was asking for money. I was just giving her a place where she might be able to raise the necessary funds. Never mind.


No no its my fault I'm running on about 5 hours sleep since Monday and I misunderstood ur post. I saw that you were staff and thought I was in trouble ☺


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Soz what does pf litter mean not quite got the shorthand down on this forum yet ☺


PF for Pet Forums  We're all very interested in your impending litter of pups!


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Soz what does pf litter mean not quite got the shorthand down on this forum yet ☺


PetForum. You've been so lovely and clearly really want the best for Roxy, so we've all got behind you. And also, who wouldn't fall head over heels for new puppies?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> PetForum. You've been so lovely and clearly really want the best for Roxy, so we've all got behind you. And also, who wouldn't fall head over heels for new puppies?


Aw that's really sweet. I know what you mean about the puppies my hubby is worried that I'm going to want to keep them lol.
I'm lime it with all animals even next doors cat (and I'm not really a cat person) knows how to push my buttons so I feed him lol


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## McKayz86 (Jan 31, 2016)

I really hope it all goes well! You're doing a wonderful thing! I think I'd have a nervous breakdown if a new dog I had got was pregnant!


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Hopefully if it all goes well it should be ok but to add to Newfies mum's suggestion, would there be any family members you could borrow money off temporarily? I was going to suggest credit card but if you can't pay it all off in one go, the interest rates will shoot up.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

McKayz86 said:


> I really hope it all goes well! You're doing a wonderful thing! I think I'd have a nervous breakdown if a new dog I had got was pregnant!


I've had my moments but you ladies have been great.
I've actually got chatting to a lady at my daughters nursery and she's whelped a couple of litters in the past few years and she's said if I need any help then to give her a call.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Wiz201 said:


> Hopefully if it all goes well it should be ok but to add to Newfies mum's suggestion, would there be any family members you could borrow money off temporarily? I was going to suggest credit card but if you can't pay it all off in one go, the interest rates will shoot up.


Unfortunately I don't have any family members except my grandad but he's on a pension so I can't ask him.
I tried to apply for a credit card but my credits really poor.
I've pawned my laptop and apart from my phone I haven't got much else worth selling
X


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> I've had my moments but you ladies have been great.
> I've actually got chatting to a lady at my daughters nursery and she's whelped a couple of litters in the past few years and she's said if I need any help then to give her a call.


That would be great. Having someone close by to call on if you're worried will make you feel a lot easier.


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## SpicyBulldog (Jun 30, 2012)

Good on you for taking her in. I am sure it was a shock to find out she is pregnant. I wouldn't worry about the c section, it is something to keep in the back of your mind, but she will likely not need one. While she is too young IMO, being young does give her the advantage of being strong and fit. It is natural, so most deliveries go smooth. I only had one c section and it was about £239.00. Though it varies, you should get quotes from different vets.



Sweety said:


> You won't see her eat the placenta. I never did with any of my bitches and remember, with a pup, the placenta is very small, probably the size of a cherry tomato, she won't be chewing on it whilst you watch in horror.
> 
> It's okay to move pups away whilst she's delivering another but yes, do put them back on Mum as soon as the new pup is here. Her licking them warms them up and stimulates them to feed.


I've typically observed them eat the placenta, it's not gross to me. Sometimes they don't eat it, I just throw it away. I have cut cords and simply tossed it too. They were bigger than a cherry tomato, but not huge, I think the size depends on the breed probably? What I've observed was more flat, though circular not a sphere, about the size of a cookie.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

I can see a Water sac so pups are on the way I will update when I can
X


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> I can see a Water sac so pups are on the way I will update when I can
> X


Oh my gosh! This has been such a hectic couple of days for you. Deep breaths and good luck. And of course, we demand updates when you can


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Soz does anyone know how long after the water sac that she should start pushing? The sac hasn't broken but I think it's leaking slowly


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Soz does anyone know how long after the water sac that she should start pushing? The sac hasn't broken but I think it's leaking slowly


I know nothing about this, but I had a look on the internet and this is what it says:

This sac is still the 2nd stage of labor and dilating. She is not ready to push. This is usually just the horn sac. Pup can follow in 20 minutes to a few hours. Some vets recommend not letting her puncture this sac. This is the protective sac that the puppies are in. But do not fret if she pops it. This is Her water breaking. After presentation of this sac, the puppy could be out in about 30 minutes, but it can take a couple of hours. If the dam continues to strain hard for longer than 45 minutes on a single puppy, it is wise to call your vet. (Remember there should never be time limits, as every situation is different.) It is always best to call your vet and do what he/she recommends


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Good luck!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I would not leave it a few hours , I hope the first puppy has come by now


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Hope all is ok.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

6 pups so far mum and pups all doing well


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## Maria_1986 (May 15, 2011)

lovemydogs86 said:


> 6 pups so far mum and pups all doing well


So glad its going well and that mum and pups are OK. Hope you are OK too and not stressing too much!


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## McKayz86 (Jan 31, 2016)

lovemydogs86 said:


> 6 pups so far mum and pups all doing well


I hope all is going well! Good luck with it all!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Great news.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Soz does anyone know how long after the water sac that she should start pushing? The sac hasn't broken but I think it's leaking slowly


I would ring your vet now. It's unusual for a water sac to present and it could be a prolapsed uterus.

I would play it safe and phone now.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Upto 7 pups now


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Only just spotted this thread. Well done to you for taking this girl on.She was very lucky to find you.
Glad to see everything is going well for you so far.Hope mum and her babies are fine and continue to do well.

Good luck with them.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> I would ring your vet now. It's unusual for a water sac to present and it could be a prolapsed uterus.
> 
> I would play it safe and phone now.


I think it was her horn sac.
We currently have 7 little puppies


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh, what a relief.

The last time I saw that, it was a prolapse.

Seven already? Is she coping well?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Oh, what a relief.
> 
> The last time I saw that, it was a prolapse.
> 
> Seven already? Is she coping well?


She's a little clumsy but once I get her to lie down she just lies there allowing them to nurse


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> She's a little clumsy but once I get her to lie down she just lies there allowing them to nurse


Oh, that's a good sign.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Great news - that's made my day. When you can, please post a photo of them.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Not sure if the pic is showing?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

There's another 1 under there somewhere lol


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Not sure if the pic is showing?


They look good - evenly sized and content.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Gorgeous pups.


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## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Awwww bless x


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Aww, beautiful pups, clever beautiful mummy !


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Awww they look lovey, clever mum, bless her.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Such beautiful babies- and momma sounds like such a clever little girl!

I haven't been on this forum in ages, but just by fluke decided to have a wee read of some threads- what a lovely first thread to read through! You sound like an amazing owner for her and her new babies, and I wish you all the best of luck with everything!!!
Please do keep updating us- I need a staffy puppy fix and where better to get it from!


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Roxy is very nervous. She also keeps laying on the pups so I'm having to watch her like a hawk although they do let out very load squeals when stuck. Other than that she's seems to be doing well she's licking them and she just starting to look where she's stepping. She's also had a good feed and lots to drink.
X


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Good. She's bound to be a little apprehensive, she's very young and has never done this before.

It's wonderful that she's cleaning them and encouraging them to feed. Also very good that she's eating herself.

Everything sounds good so far. Do make sure they're on dry, clean bedding and in a warm place for tonight.

You've done really well. It's scary, but you've coped very well.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Good. She's bound to be a little apprehensive, she's very young and has never done this before.
> 
> It's wonderful that she's cleaning them and encouraging them to feed. Also very good that she's eating herself.
> 
> ...


Yeah I've got the heating on full and will leave it on all night then tomorrow I'm going to see about a heating pad.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Your post came across to me, only that you were offering ways to help. *


Thanks for that, Janice.



lovemydogs86 said:


> No no its my fault I'm running on about 5 hours sleep since Monday and I misunderstood ur post. I saw that you were staff and thought I was in trouble ☺


I hope it all goes well.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Sounds like you and Roxy are doing a great job. Well done.
Hope everything continues to go well for you.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

How did the first night go? I'm now absolutely obsessed with your new, little family


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Oh they are gorgeous well done young Roxy! and well done to you OP, so happy all pups are here and you are doing right by them. Roxy is one lucky dog


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Anymore news this morning?

Well done Roxy and ''grandma''


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Ok well I accidentally fell asleep and woke up at 4 am to find I could only see 5 pups. Cue massive panic I found them under 1 of the puppy pads at the back of the box fast asleep so I am getting out the sellotape today to makes sure that doesn't happen again.
I think roxy is doing better. She barely moved all night and when the temp dropped at 5 this mornign she gathered them all up close to her and curled round them.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Ok well I accidentally fell asleep and woke up at 4 am to find I could only see 5 pups. Cue massive panic I found them under 1 of the puppy pads at the back of the box fast asleep so I am getting out the sellotape today to makes sure that doesn't happen again.
> I think roxy is doing better. She barely moved all night and when the temp dropped at 5 this mornign she gathered them all up close to her and curled round them.


Oh bless her, what a fantastic mummy she has turned out to be


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> Oh bless her, what a fantastic mummy she has turned out to be


Yeah she's doing well. My only concern at the moment is I'm still having to physically lie her down to allow them to nurse. She's interested when they start crying but she just watches them so I'm having to lay her down and let the pups latch on


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Sounds like she's doing great. 
Start a weight chart for them,and weigh at the same time each day, kitchen digital scales are normally accurate to 5g, and some to 1g. If you can tell them apart by looking that's great, otherwise you will have to identify them somehow. I use nail varnish on the claws of different paws on my Siamese, front right, back left etc. Not had to do this on puppies as all different colours or sexes, but principle the same. Some people use little collars/ribbons in different colours, bit I'd be very wary of this when all in a nest pushing and pawing each other, could twist round a neck or a sibling's paw.
Good luck with it all, sounds good so far. 
Oh, if mum goes out in the mud/rain for a toilet break, do make sure you wipe her paws and tummy dry before letting back in the nest.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Catharinem said:


> Sounds like she's doing great.
> Start a weight chart for them,and weigh at the same time each day, kitchen digital scales are normally accurate to 5g, and some to 1g. If you can tell them apart by looking that's great, otherwise you will have to identify them somehow. I use nail varnish on the claws of different paws on my Siamese, front right, back left etc. Not had to do this on puppies as all different colours or sexes, but principle the same. Some people use little collars/ribbons in different colours, bit I'd be very wary of this when all in a nest pushing and pawing each other, could twist round a neck or a sibling's paw.
> Good luck with it all, sounds good so far.
> Oh, if mum goes out in the mud/rain for a toilet break, do make sure you wipe her paws and tummy dry before letting back in the nest.


Hehe I tried to weigh them last night but roxy was having none of it and kept picking them up before the scales could settle.
I did get some I'd collars in a s/m size but they are massively too big so I've had a good look at them and just taken note of markings as thankfully they are all different except 2 of the chocolate ones but 1s a girl and 1s a boy so that helps.
X


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Hehe I tried to weigh them last night but roxy was having none of it and kept picking them up before the scales could settle.
> I did get some I'd collars in a s/m size but they are massively too big so I've had a good look at them and just taken note of markings as thankfully they are all different except 2 of the chocolate ones but 1s a girl and 1s a boy so that helps.
> X


Great, boy/girl is always a good way to tell apart, and pretty obvious in puppies too ! I've had a whole litter of blue roan, they were called Blaze ( biggest blaze), Spot, Mostly Black etc!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Wait until you see a litter of golden retriever pups. There were ten of them in Isla's litter all looking exactly the same. I used to look at them for a few minutes, then turn to the breeder and ask rather sheepishly 'which ones mine?'. The breeder used different coloured nail varnishes too, but put a blob on the heads of the pups.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Hehe I tried to weigh them last night but roxy was having none of it and kept picking them up before the scales could settle.
> I did get some I'd collars in a s/m size but they are massively too big so I've had a good look at them and just taken note of markings as thankfully they are all different except 2 of the chocolate ones but 1s a girl and 1s a boy so that helps.
> X


Got any wool? Use different coloured wool or string.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Wiz201 said:


> Got any wool? Use different coloured wool or string.


Hubby's gone to get some


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Not wool, too easily swallowed or tangled.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

As Catharinem says, wool is definately not a good idea.Sounds like Roxy is being a brilliant mum.
Well done to both of you. Hope everything continues to go well for you.


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## AceOfSpades113 (Dec 1, 2015)

When one of my niehgbours had a litter of black labradors last year they used collars which were either these, or very similar
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trixie-1555...d=1455304477&sr=8-5&keywords=whelping+collars
Then when it came to rehoming they give the puppy collar to the new owners along with a small lead, were all well chuffed over having their dogs first ever collar  Against their puppies being absolutely crazy none were ever injured as a result of the collars


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

AceOfSpades113 said:


> When one of my niehgbours had a litter of black labradors last year they used collars which were either these, or very similar
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trixie-1555...d=1455304477&sr=8-5&keywords=whelping+collars
> Then when it came to rehoming they give the puppy collar to the new owners along with a small lead, were all well chuffed over having their dogs first ever collar  Against their puppies being absolutely crazy none were ever injured as a result of the collars


Those are the exact collars I have but they are just 2 big even on the smallest setting.
Hubby found some paper whelping collars but they quite big so I need to cut them down to size when I can get hold of 1 of the pups as mum is very protective she even growled at my husband when he got home as she couldn't see who it was.
she isn't very interested in the pups more tolerant. She has no issue in leaving them in favour of trying to get on my bed, going out to toilet or even for the chance of scraps if I'm eating and then is reluctant to get back in the box. Almost like she's saying you can't have them but I am just putting up with them. I'm also still having to physically lay her on her side so they can nurse (which is constant at the moment and not the every 2 hours I was expecting) but once I get her lead down she will only move to stimulate toileting and then go to sleep.
It's been suggested that she might need some more calcium so I've ordered some calsorb which I need to pick up tomorrow and I changed her over to puppy food last night.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Soo cute


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Beautiful, mum looks very contented too.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Uh oh hubby dearest has named 1 of the puppies


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## Ladypenny (Dec 24, 2015)

Just read up on this thread. Well done to you and Roxy - quite a journey.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Uh oh hubby dearest has named 1 of the puppies


Slippery slope! Next he'll be begging if you can keep it


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## Sarahlou444 (Jun 26, 2015)

It must be so hard to not want to keep them all!


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

I think he does but I've put my foot down and told him we aren't keeping any. I mentioned that a puppy will probably toilet on the brand new carpet quite a few times before its house broken and that the pup will cry and bark just as much as his mum and he just gave me a horrified look lol.
It will be hard to let them go but i know that it just isn't possible to keep them. For a start we couldn't afford it, the house is way 2 small and then there's my boy dog, he's male aggressive so it would never work. Maybe if this had happened in 2 or 3 years when my boys gone then I would consider keeping 1


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Uh oh hubby dearest has named 1 of the puppies[/QUOTE
> 
> Sounds like he's chosen one already. Not suprised, they look gorgeous. Mum looks very contented , bless her.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh my goodness! Delighted everything went so well & a huge well done to Roxy, she's done brilliantly, especially as she's really just a baby herself. 

Pups are gorgeous ...... if you have any local rescues near, it may be worth asking for their help with rehoming if needed


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Lilylass said:


> Oh my goodness! Delighted everything went so well & a huge well done to Roxy, she's done brilliantly, especially as she's really just a baby herself.
> 
> Pups are gorgeous ...... if you have any local rescues near, it may be worth asking for their help with rehoming if needed


Oh will they do that? I'm wondering if that might be a better option for the pups I haven't managed to find homes for as they will be able to do much better checks than me but on the other hand I don't want the pups going to the shelter.
I've found homes for 4 possibly 5 of the pups already so only 2 or 3 to home now.
They are gorgeous I can't keep my eyes off them.


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## StrawberryBlonde (May 27, 2015)

Just wanted to say well done again for your commitment to your girl & the surprise little ones. Just about rehoming pups, I got my collie pup from Dogs Trust who were helping a farmer rehome because he didn't know how to/have the time to, so yes, try local rescues if you need a hand. Your in Gloucestershire right, so maybe Cheltenham Animal Shelter, DT Evesham or RSPCA.
Love seeing the little ones :Kiss


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Oh will they do that? I'm wondering if that might be a better option for the pups I haven't managed to find homes for as they will be able to do much better checks than me but on the other hand I don't want the pups going to the shelter.
> I've found homes for 4 possibly 5 of the pups already so only 2 or 3 to home now.
> They are gorgeous I can't keep my eyes off them.


If you have a good one near & its certainly worth asking if you have a couple left you've not found homes for nearer the time. Sure if you explain the situation they'd be willing to help if they can

Pups shouldn't need to go to the shelter as they should be able to go straight to their homes (unless just the day they're to be collected) & the added bonus is the people will have been fully checked


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## ladyisla (Apr 19, 2014)

Sounds like you've done an amazing job there, well done! And well done Roxy! So happy you have a healthy Mum and pups, I was reading this thread with my fingers and toes crossed all would be ok!


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sorry haven't updated in a while everything's been so busy. 
Mum is doing ok and 6 of the pups are doing brilliantly. I have concerns with number 7 though. He is visibly smaller than his litter mates and has only put on 107g since birth (all the others have almost doubled their weight) he is nursing and I am seeing a small weight gain each day but he seems to be being pushed out by the others when nursing (I think due to them being so much bigger than him) and then he tries to find a spare nipples but then gives up and goes to sleep.
I've added a photo to compare. It's the 1 with no collar.
X


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

He doesn't look sickly or particularly stunted, but it is difficult to tell from a picture.

Sometimes, a pup can begin to fall behind a little and it becomes a vicious circle. His siblings grow faster than him, become stronger than him and will push him out at feeding time. The more that happens, the worse it gets.

I think he needs some help. You can do one of two things. When the pups begin to feed, remove the other six for five minutes or so, to give him chance to feed, or you can supplement him with puppymilk. I believe Royal Canin Babydog is a good one.

If he continues to fall behind, I would let your vet look at him, to be sure he doesn't have other problems.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> He doesn't look sickly or particularly stunted, but it is difficult to tell from a picture.
> 
> Sometimes, a pup can begin to fall behind a little and it becomes a vicious circle. His siblings grow faster than him, become stronger than him and will push him out at feeding time. The more that happens, the worse it gets.
> 
> ...


This is what I was thinking. He was the smallest in weight at birth but put on the 3rd biggest amount by day 3. I have checked my chart and he is putting on a consistent amount (ie around the 20g daily mark) but compared to the other 6 (around the 40g mark) he is putting on no where near. He's the only 1 left in the 300s.
I have some royal canin so I will bare that in mind but I think I will try and separate the others for 5 mins first and see how he does as ultimately if he is struggling mums milk is going to be the best thing for him. If his weight is still struggling tomorrow evening I will phone the vets


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> This is what I was thinking. He was the smallest in weight at birth but put on the 3rd biggest amount by day 3. I have checked my chart and he is putting on a consistent amount (ie around the 20g daily mark) but compared to the other 6 (around the 40g mark) he is putting on no where near. He's the only 1 left in the 300s.
> I have some royal canin so I will bare that in mind but I think I will try and separate the others for 5 mins first and see how he does as ultimately if he is struggling mums milk is going to be the best thing for him. If his weight is still struggling tomorrow evening I will phone the vets


You're doing such an amazing job. You sound like a pro now! We'll need you back on here to give advice to everyone else (once you have a minute for yourself)


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Try putting him on the back nipples which are more productive. Just a few minutes a day should be enough. Also, have you checked in his mouth to see that he hasn't got a cleft palate?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Burrowzig said:


> Try putting him on the back nipples which are more productive. Just a few minutes a day should be enough. Also, have you checked in his mouth to see that he hasn't got a cleft palate?


Yes this is what I'm doing at the moment and I've put my biggest boy on the 2nd row to try and get things flowing as there doesn't seem to be much milk coming from that row.
I did try to have a peek but his mouth is so tiny that I couldn't see very well. There's no milk coming out his nose which I was told was an indicator. They will be going to the vets for their first lot of worming next Thursday so I will ask him to check if I don't need to get him seen before then


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> You're doing such an amazing job. You sound like a pro now! We'll need you back on here to give advice to everyone else (once you have a minute for yourself)


Lol I've done so much research I feel like I could take an exam on basic whelping and how to examine pups quick time before mum completely freaks out etc


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

MiffyMoo said:


> You're doing such an amazing job. You sound like a pro now! We'll need you back on here to give advice to everyone else (once you have a minute for yourself)


+1
You really are doing a great job


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

I've weighed the little one this morning to see how we're doing and he's put on 15g already since 6pm last night so I think just giving him the back teat and allowing him 5 mins to nurse alone has really helped.
Exactly a week old today the time has gone really quickly. Got to try and work out how to clip their nails now as they are getting very long


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> I've weighed the little one this morning to see how we're doing and he's put on 15g already since 6pm last night so I think just giving him the back teat and allowing him 5 mins to nurse alone has really helped.
> Exactly a week old today the time has gone really quickly. Got to try and work out how to clip their nails now as they are getting very long


You need some nail clippers, not dog ones but those for humans.

If you pick a pup up, facing away from you, along your hand and then, with your thumb, gently press on top of the paw. That will separate the toes and make the claws more prominent and then just snip off the very end.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> You need some nail clippers, not dog ones but those for humans.
> 
> If you pick a pup up, facing away from you, along your hand and then, with your thumb, gently press on top of the paw. That will separate the toes and make the claws more prominent and then just snip off the very end.


Ok thanks I'll do that later as hubby is going to give roxy her first bath since the birth today


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

I don't have dogs and don't know anything about them- but this thread was, what to say, action packed and such a page turner! Amazing, amazing job, well done everyone, and I think the whole thing has been such a labour of love (pun intended). Had tears in my eyes at the end of it, and felt compelled to comment.
Good luck to Roxy and all her puppies- I hope they grow up strong and healthy and spend their years in kind, loving homes.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Pups are looking very bonny. they are gorgeous.Well done to you and Roxy.
You are doing a fantastic job. Well done, you should be very proud of yourself.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Some puppy goodness for everyone 
X


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

They're gorgeous and you have done amazingly well, particularly considering you got landed with the whole problem.

Mum's back teats do look quite big, so little boy might do better on the front ones when he has his own special little feeding time.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

After a bit more advice. I've given roxy a bath, not a full bath as I concentrated on her back end and I used a towel to rub her back before and then used the same towel to rub her nipples just in case I washed her scent off them. However as she is a white dog I'm sure u can imagine was quite a mess and even after a good wash is her tail and rump are still very stained. Is there anything I can use to get it off or would it be better to see a groomer?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> After a bit more advice. I've given roxy a bath, not a full bath as I concentrated on her back end and I used a towel to rub her back before and then used the same towel to rub her nipples just in case I washed her scent off them. However as she is a white dog I'm sure u can imagine was quite a mess and even after a good wash is her tail and rump are still very stained. Is there anything I can use to get it off or would it be better to see a groomer?


No, just leave it and don't worry.

I bred PRTs, white, of course, and the back end can look very stained and discoloured.

In time, she will clean herself up.

I would leave her in peace right now, let her nurse her pups and worry about the rest later. If she looks discoloured around her back end, it certainly won't harm her in any way and will likely resolve itself in time.

Don't take her to a groomer, you don't know what dogs have been there before her and you don't want her carrying any infection back to her babes.

She will clean herself up.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Sweety said:


> You need some nail clippers, not dog ones but those for humans.
> 
> If you pick a pup up, facing away from you, along your hand and then, with your thumb, gently press on top of the paw. That will separate the toes and make the claws more prominent and then just snip off the very end.


I used nail scissors (human ones). The nails were so tiny I had to put on 2 pairs of reading glasses to see them properly!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Sweety said:


> No, just leave it and don't worry.
> 
> I bred PRTs, white, of course, and the back end can look very stained and discoloured.
> 
> ...


Great advice. Keep her away from other dogs in general.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

So the smallest pup is still not gaining much weight despite giving him extra 'alone' time to nurse so I have tried to supplement with some royal canin milk but he is far from even considering trying it. I've tried 3 different sized teats and even tried a small syringe to no avail. I'm going to phone the vets first thing in the morning but does anyone have any ideas as to what I might try in the meantime?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

There really isn't a lot more you can do.

Sometimes, you can have a pup that just doesn't thrive as the others. I've had two, in separate litters, and both did actually catch up in the end, though were always a little smaller than their littermates.

How many times a day is he having his alone feeding time?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> There really isn't a lot more you can do.
> 
> Sometimes, you can have a pup that just doesn't thrive as the others. I've had two, in separate litters, and both did actually catch up in the end, though were always a little smaller than their littermates.
> 
> How many times a day is he having his alone feeding time?


I'm not sure how many times but as soon as he wakes and starts rooting around I put him to the nipple and put the others in a warmed carrier for 5 mins where mum can still see them if they are waking up as well. He's nursing every 1.5 hours through the day but not for very long, within 2 or 3 mins of his litter mates starting to nurse he is curled up asleep. What confuses me is he is gaining every day but it's nowhere near as much as the others eg the next biggest has put on approx 35g daily consistently where as the small one is only putting on 18-22g daily with a few 25g in every few days. I'm hoping he's just small rather than a failure to thrive


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I would let your Vet check him over but, it sounds to me as though you're doing all you can.

Make sure they're warm enough, and just carry on as you are.

Sometimes, Mother Nature will decide, despite your best efforts, but sometimes, one pup will be smaller than the others for no real reason.

You're doing a wonderful job.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Have you tried letting a stronger pup suckle on the good teat first to get the milk flowing, then put little one on that teat. It could be that the sucking to get the milk flowing is exhausting him so that he hasn't the strength to suckle for very long

Sorry if that's already been said before.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Siskin said:


> Have you tried letting a stronger pup suckle on the good teat first to get the milk flowing, then put little one on that teat. It could be that the sucking to get the milk flowing is exhausting him so that he hasn't the strength to suckle for very long
> 
> Sorry if that's already been said before.


No actually I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense seeing as once he was getting pushed off he was going to sleep after what seemed like minimal effort to larch on a different nipple.
I will try that next time they nurse with just a bigger pup and the smallest 1 with the other 5 still separated. 
I'll still phone the vet tomorrow for advice as I know they can go down hill quickly if there's a problem. I'd rather spend out a bit of cash to be told he's fine than lose him now at 9 days


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## Floppy Ears (Apr 16, 2011)

I'd let the larger puppy get the milk flow going and then put the smaller one on.... But make sure it's a back teat too where the milk flow is better.

I've had a number of small puppies and always done this with them....made sure they get their fair share of milk....as long as they gained regularly they've been fine....providing there's no underlying issue.

Vet check first to make sure


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## Dolly5 (Dec 6, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> No actually I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense seeing as once he was getting pushed off he was going to sleep after what seemed like minimal effort to larch on a different nipple.
> I will try that next time they nurse with just a bigger pup and the smallest 1 with the other 5 still separated.
> I'll still phone the vet tomorrow for advice as I know they can go down hill quickly if there's a problem. I'd rather spend out a bit of cash to be told he's fine than lose him now at 9 days





Sweety said:


> I would let your Vet check him over but, it sounds to me as though you're doing all you can.
> 
> Make sure they're warm enough, and just carry on as you are.
> 
> ...





lovemydogs86 said:


> After a bit more advice. I've given roxy a bath, not a full bath as I concentrated on her back end and I used a towel to rub her back before and then used the same towel to rub her nipples just in case I washed her scent off them. However as she is a white dog I'm sure u can imagine was quite a mess and even after a good wash is her tail and rump are still very stained. Is there anything I can use to get it off or would it be better to see a groomer?


Just wanted to say I know absolutely nothing about whelping but you are completely amazing doing what you are doing. It sounds extremely hard work and when the puppies are in their forever homes you deserve a medal/rest! Also well done to all who have given support and advice, what a lovely bunch you are!x


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Like others, I just wanted to come on here to say that, as someone who has no experience of whelping very young pups or dealing with this kind of situation, I am in awe of your care and kindness towards this girl and her babies.
Yes, the mating should have never happened in the first place, but you didn't ask for this situation and only found out when it was too late and have stepped up to the plate to help this girl out. Thank you 

Whilst I have no experience of breeding or whelping young puppies, I do have some experience of rehoming dogs and puppies (in rescue). As a result, a few things occurred to me and I thought it might be worth mentioning here in case of any help.

I think you said you had some homes lined up for the pups, right?

Could you get in contact with a good local rescue who might be able to provide rescue back up for each of the pups? I know you said that your male dog is not keen on other boys, so in the case of a male pup needing a place to go in the case of a change of circumstance or whatever, it might not be best for him to come back to you, but if you have an agreement with the rescue that provides backup, it would mean that the pup could go to them or one of their fosterers, thus evading or decreasing the risk of said pup turning up on gumtree, free to a good home (with all the risk that brings) and possible undesirables who might try to pick him up and use him for the wrong reasons. Same applies for the girls of course.

Likewise, a number of rescue organisations now provide free or discounted neutering for staffies and bullbreed dogs. I am thinking of this not only for Roxy when the time comes, but also for the pups. It might well be possible to give organisations in your area that provide this service a call, explain the situation and enquire as to whether they would be able to provide a discounted/free neutering voucher or letter that entitles them to it, for each of the pups and mum when the time comes. The voucher or letter could be included in a puppy pack that you provide to each of the new pup owners. You might also want to consider drawing up some kind of contract in which owners agree to get in contact with you or the specific rescue in question if there are any issues and to agree to neuter their puppy when the time comes.

Have a look here:
http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.u...rrier-breeds/story-16686415-detail/story.html
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/our-centres/darlington/centre-updates/blog/free-neutering-for-your-bull-breed-this-march

Neutering for £30 for SBTs: 
[URL]http://gawa.org.uk/sbt-neutering/
http://gawa.org.uk/neutering-for-staffies/
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/our-ce...-neutering-for-your-bull-breed-this-marchI've
I've also seen that there is a free microchipping event in your area. Obviously after the 1st April, microchipping of dogs is a legal requirement. So pups will need to be chipped before they go to their new homes. The owners can change the details afterwards. [/URL]
http://www.safergloucester.co.uk/Events/Free_Dog_Microchipping.aspx
Also free and/or discounted microchipping (£5) here:
[URL]http://gawa.org.uk/compulsory-microchipping-dogs/

I wondered whether you might be able to get some kind of puppy pack drawn up to give to the new owners of the pups. The pack including:

- Contract/agreement to get in contact with you and/or selected rescue in case of any issues and neuter the pup at a certain age using the voucher/discount letter
- General info about raising a pup, socialisation, nutrition, exercise. Lots can be printed and used from here http://www.thepuppyplan.com/
- Basic training advice articles and a list of good, force free trainers/behaviour professionals in your area.
- Your contact details/rescue contact details.

I hope you don't mind me adding this. I'm literally just putting it out there in case it's any help. I know you said you sold your laptop, so I don't know if you now have a PC and/or printer. If you don't and sent me the relevant stuff, I'd be happy to print it all out and make up into booklets (enough for each puppy and a copy for you) and post to you for when the time comes. I have lots of stuff for printing resources and making such things that I use for work.

You deserve a medal for all of your hard work and care of this girl![/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sorry for not replying sooner I came down with a nasty cold.
So I went to the vets and he looked at the pups weights since birth and the vet is not concerned at all and the pup is putting on approx 9% weight gain daily. He said what he thinks from my description is that the pups placenta was starting to fail and he wasn't getting very much in the way of nutrients. He also thinks that the other pups are just bigger than him genetically. 
I weighed them last night and I do believe from his average daily gain that he will have doubled his weight by tonight which is 12 days old. He is definitely getting stronger and even managed to knocked his biggest brother off the teat last night despite there being other teats available lol


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Sorry for not replying sooner I came down with a nasty cold.
> So I went to the vets and he looked at the pups weights since birth and the vet is not concerned at all and the pup is putting on approx 9% weight gain daily. He said what he thinks from my description is that the pups placenta was starting to fail and he wasn't getting very much in the way of nutrients. He also thinks that the other pups are just bigger than him genetically.
> I weighed them last night and I do believe from his average daily gain that he will have doubled his weight by tonight which is 12 days old. He is definitely getting stronger and even managed to knocked his biggest brother off the teat last night despite there being other teats available lol


Ah, that's wonderful.

I think I said to you sometime earlier that I did have two pups like this, in separate litters, and they both went on to make normal size.

Glad your Vet is happy with him. Hope you're feeling better.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I had a pup like this that was smaller from the beginning. I remember when the litter started eating solids he didn't do so well. Found out he was allergic to what I was feeding him and changed his diet and he really began to thrive. when I contacted the owners after a year he was the biggest of the lot.

I know this isn't what happen in your case but I just thought I would mention it.

You are doing a great job.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Hey guys I've got a couple of questions.
The pups are going to the vet for their first worming treatment tomorrow but I'm unsure what to do with mum. I can't take her inside the vets as I'm sure she will attack any male dog in there and I'm not certain about how she would react to any females. However I have worked out we could be gone for 30 mins to an hour and I'm anxious about her being away from them for that long at 2 weeks old. So I was thinking about taking all of them but leaving mum in the car and not actually taking the pups in to the vets until they are ready to see them (im hoping this would reduce the chance of nasties being passed around too) that way she would only be away from the pups for 10-15 mins. Is that OK.
My second question is can i leave mum with the pups for a little while. I'd only be downstairs as my daughter is only 2.5 and she's really struggling but she wants mummy and daddy not just one of us for a bit then swap over plus my poor husband is struggling to look after her on his own and keep the house up together. It would only be for 30 mins or so at a time


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Lemmsy
Thank you for those links. Unfortunately the neutering for £30 isn't available to roxy as she is over 1 years of age.
The free microchipping is excellent and there is 1 that is just a 5 minute walk from me.
Yes I have done contracts. I tooked at the contract from the link and just put the things relevant to us into our contracts - simple things like the pup is pet quality only and the pups should be neutered by a certain date, giving me first refusal if they cannot continue to look after the pup no matter how far in the future etc.
X


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Hey guys I've got a couple of questions.
> The pups are going to the vet for their first worming treatment tomorrow but I'm unsure what to do with mum. I can't take her inside the vets as I'm sure she will attack any male dog in there and I'm not certain about how she would react to any females. However I have worked out we could be gone for 30 mins to an hour and I'm anxious about her being away from them for that long at 2 weeks old. So I was thinking about taking all of them but leaving mum in the car and not actually taking the pups in to the vets until they are ready to see them (im hoping this would reduce the chance of nasties being passed around too) that way she would only be away from the pups for 10-15 mins. Is that OK.
> My second question is can i leave mum with the pups for a little while. I'd only be downstairs as my daughter is only 2.5 and she's really struggling but she wants mummy and daddy not just one of us for a bit then swap over plus my poor husband is struggling to look after her on his own and keep the house up together. It would only be for 30 mins or so at a time


I never took my litter to the vet until they went for a final check and microchipping before going to their new homes - though their mum had been wormed before and during the pregnancy with Panucur.  How about, you take mum and pups together to the vet, and take the pups in half at a time so mum is still in the car with the others.

And if she was going to attack any male dog, it's leaves me wondering how she became pregnant in the first place!

I started leaving my bitch with her pups at about 2 weeks; she was fine with them and I had to go back to work (I'm self-employed as a gardener). So I'd go out and do a garden, then come home to check on them, do any feeding or cleaning up that was necessary, then go out again and do another garden, and sometimes a third in the evening with another home visit between. I was away about 2-3 hours at a time. Pups were in a whelping box with a puppy pen around it, with a step either side so mum could come and go as she pleased but pups couldn't get out.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Hey guys I've got a couple of questions.
> The pups are going to the vet for their first worming treatment tomorrow but I'm unsure what to do with mum. I can't take her inside the vets as I'm sure she will attack any male dog in there and I'm not certain about how she would react to any females. However I have worked out we could be gone for 30 mins to an hour and I'm anxious about her being away from them for that long at 2 weeks old. So I was thinking about taking all of them but leaving mum in the car and not actually taking the pups in to the vets until they are ready to see them (im hoping this would reduce the chance of nasties being passed around too) that way she would only be away from the pups for 10-15 mins. Is that OK.
> My second question is can i leave mum with the pups for a little while. I'd only be downstairs as my daughter is only 2.5 and she's really struggling but she wants mummy and daddy not just one of us for a bit then swap over plus my poor husband is struggling to look after her on his own and keep the house up together. It would only be for 30 mins or so at a time


Why do you need to take the pups to the vets. They will need to be wormed every 2 weeks and you do it yourself. Either buy the wormer from the vet or order it online from viovet or one of the other sites that do veterinary products.

As for leaving the bitch on her own, have you really been with her non stop for 2 weeks. I have never stayed with a bitch at all, just popped in and checked them. They appreciate a bit of peace and quiet. I understand you had issues with her being so young but if she is feeding and cleaning them I would leave her in peace to get on with it. In another couple of weeks you will be wanting to spend time getting them socialised round the house and starting to wean them and that takes up a lot of time so have a rest now.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Burrowzig said:


> I never took my litter to the vet until they went for a final check and microchipping before going to their new homes - though their mum had been wormed before and during the pregnancy with Panucur. How about, you take mum and pups together to the vet, and take the pups in half at a time so mum is still in the car with the others.
> 
> And if she was going to attack any male dog, it's leaves me wondering how she became pregnant in the first place!
> 
> I started leaving my bitch with her pups at about 2 weeks; she was fine with them and I had to go back to work (I'm self-employed as a gardener). So I'd go out and do a garden, then come home to check on them, do any feeding or cleaning up that was necessary, then go out again and do another garden, and sometimes a third in the evening with another home visit between. I was away about 2-3 hours at a time. Pups were in a whelping box with a puppy pen around it, with a step either side so mum could come and go as she pleased but pups couldn't get out.


Oh right ok I'll start leaving her for a bit then it will make life so much easier.
I'm not sure if she's always been this way as we got her when she was already pregnant but she's flown at my boy twice now. The first time was when she was pregnant and the second time was on Monday when he was coming back from a walk she went flying down the stairs and lunged at him. Thankfully my hubby managed to grab her before she got to him. She's growled and barked at 2 other males that have just been walking past the garden as well. Im not sure about females as she hasnt come across any as yet since the puppies have arrived.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I never took my pups to the vet to be wormed. I used to buy the wormer from the vet and do it myself.

By the time my litters were two weeks old, I would leave them for a couple of hours, to go shopping, etc.

It's very possible Roxy is being a little over protective of her pups and that's why she's showing aggression to your male. I did have one bitch who happily lived with a male all her life, but she wouldn't have allowed him near her pups.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Blitz said:


> Why do you need to take the pups to the vets. They will need to be wormed every 2 weeks and you do it yourself. Either buy the wormer from the vet or order it online from viovet or one of the other sites that do veterinary products.
> 
> As for leaving the bitch on her own, have you really been with her non stop for 2 weeks. I have never stayed with a bitch at all, just popped in and checked them. They appreciate a bit of peace and quiet. I understand you had issues with her being so young but if she is feeding and cleaning them I would leave her in peace to get on with it. In another couple of weeks you will be wanting to spend time getting them socialised round the house and starting to wean them and that takes up a lot of time so have a rest now.


I phoned the vet to ask about worming and wether i could do it myself like i do their mum and they said that it ideally needs to be done in the clinic as they would want to weigh the pups and check for cleft palates etc I did tell her I had done this myself and saw no clefts and that I weigh them myself daily but she said that the stuff you get over the counter isn't suitable for newborn pups.

Yes someone has been with them 24/7 unless mum is out toileting when I take the opportunity to shower or go to the toilet etc. I was told by someone that I should only leave her alone with them until they are able to move out her way if I wanted to come back to dead pups so I haven't left them with her.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

this would be one occasion when I would say the vet is trying to get your money. They will need doing every two weeks so I would go in and ask them for the wormer that you need. They do not need to see the animal to give you a prescription wormer. Apart from anything else you will be subjecting the pups to the risk of infection by taking them to the vet. What ever you do though do not go to pets at home or another pet shop and get your wormer as they will not be able to sell you something suitable.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Blitz said:


> this would be one occasion when I would say the vet is trying to get your money. They will need doing every two weeks so I would go in and ask them for the wormer that you need. They do not need to see the animal to give you a prescription wormer. Apart from anything else you will be subjecting the pups to the risk of infection by taking them to the vet. What ever you do though do not go to pets at home or another pet shop and get your wormer as they will not be able to sell you something suitable.


I agree with this. It makes little sense to subject Mum to the stress of a visit to the vet and put the pups at risk of infection, just so they can weigh them.

I wonder if this is because of the current policy Vets have where they won't prescribe any medication for an animal they haven't seen in the last six months?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Right ok. I must admit I have been getting that vibe from my vets recently. Everytime I phone for advice they say oh we need to see her etc. Even when she was in labour I phoned to ask how long after her horn sack broke should I see a pup and they told me 1 hour and then they'd want to see her. I did ignore that after I got some advice on here and I'm glad I did otherwise I would have had to help birth a puppy in car.
I will phone them in a minute and ask for the Panucur.
So unless there's a problem I don't need to take any of them to the vets until they go for their first vaccinations at 6 weeks then?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Right ok. I must admit I have been getting that vibe from my vets recently. Everytime I phone for advice they say oh we need to see her etc. Even when she was in labour I phoned to ask how long after her horn sack broke should I see a pup and they told me 1 hour and then they'd want to see her. I did ignore that after I got some advice on here and I'm glad I did otherwise I would have had to help birth a puppy in car.
> I will phone them in a minute and ask for the Panucur.
> So unless there's a problem I don't need to take any of them to the vets until they go for their first vaccinations at 6 weeks then?


Is that when they suggest vaccinating. Seems awfully young, there is still a risk they will be getting maternal antibodies.
If they wont give you the panacur then order it from viovet - they are very quick and a couple of days will not hurt


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Blitz said:


> Is that when they suggest vaccinating. Seems awfully young, there is still a risk they will be getting maternal antibodies.
> If they wont give you the panacur then order it from viovet - they are very quick and a couple of days will not hurt


Yes I don't understand it fully but there's something about if they still have mums antibodies or a time frame of about a few weeks i believe after mums anti bodies stop having much effect then the vaccine can't do its job. I will try to find the link in case anyone else reads this thread in future.
I'll bare that in mind about viovet if the vet refuses
X


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...Qb1YjIL38-UMCadWw&sig2=9k6AoC1ZdH0_4ExY1od3zQ

This link should work for info on vaccinations.
I know it's an American but the info on window of susceptibility should be the same
X


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I used to worm my pups at three, five and seven weeks.

Have your Vets advised you they want to vaccinate at six weeks old?

My Vet won't vaccinate a pup before eight weeks.


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## kiara (Jun 2, 2009)

http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/panac...content=1013&gclid=CMWD7dKdk8sCFUqeGwodQD0FUw


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> I used to worm my pups at three, five and seven weeks.
> 
> Have your Vets advised you they want to vaccinate at six weeks old?
> 
> My Vet won't vaccinate a pup before eight weeks.


Yes my vet said 6 weeks but I'm not taking them to my vet I'm taking them to a different vet as they do the first vaccination for £25 but don't charge for the boosters as long as they got there first jabs from that clinic so I will phone them and see when they recommend.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

the vaccine will not work if they have mum's antibodies giving them protection, not the other way round. I would have thought 8 weeks was plenty early enough


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Blitz said:


> the vaccine will not work if they have mum's antibodies giving them protection, not the other way round. I would have thought 8 weeks was plenty early enough


Sorry yes that's what I meant. What I read was about the window of susceptibility where mums antibodies start to waiver and are too low to offer much protection but are still to high for the vaccine to work. I think at 6 weeks it is only 25% of dogs that will be able to benefit from the vaccination rising to 40% at 9 weeks.

I'm confused as well though as roxy doesn't have worms and I wormed her when she came to me not knowing she was pregnant so I'm not sure where puppies get the worms from


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

A pregnant bitch would normally be wormed daily from her 40th day of pregnancy.

As she was already pregnant when she came to you and, presumably, hadn't been wormed, then the pups could well have a worm burden.

I always wormed my pups, even though my bitches had been wormed, to be on the safe side.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Right ok. I must admit I have been getting that vibe from my vets recently. Everytime I phone for advice they say oh we need to see her etc. Even when she was in labour I phoned to ask how long after her horn sack broke should I see a pup and they told me 1 hour and then they'd want to see her. I did ignore that after I got some advice on here and I'm glad I did otherwise I would have had to help birth a puppy in car.
> *I will phone them in a minute and ask for the Panucur.*
> So unless there's a problem I don't need to take any of them to the vets until they go for their first vaccinations at 6 weeks then?


If you haven't already ordered it, it's cheaper to buy online from VetUK, VetMedic or the like. There are several online pharmacies and you usually get delivery next day.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Sorry yes that's what I meant. What I read was about the window of susceptibility where mums antibodies start to waiver and are too low to offer much protection but are still to high for the vaccine to work. I think at 6 weeks it is only 25% of dogs that will be able to benefit from the vaccination rising to 40% at 9 weeks.
> 
> I'm confused as well though as roxy doesn't have worms and I wormed her when she came to me not knowing she was pregnant so I'm not sure where puppies get the worms from


There's usually latent worm eggs in the mother's body that become activated with the hormones from pregnancy, and they get passed to the pups via the placental blood supply. Wormers deal with worms in the gut, and if there's no worms there you won't see them. There can also be worms y see because they're not passed until the worm burden is large.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

So I left roxy alone with the pups for about 30 mins yesterday afternoon but she did not like it at all. She kept whining and crying and wouldn't settle. I had to come back upstairs as the pups were all squealing and she was pacing around and stepping on them. As soon as I got her to settle down and sit down she was fine. I tried again at tea time and this time only for 15 mins but again it was the same sort of thing. So I don't think she actually likes being alone. I do know that when I've left the house (before puppies) the neighbours have said that she cried the whole time. She's one of those dogs that likes to sit on your feet or with her head in ur lap.
Anyway I thought I'd leave it for another couple of days and then try again but slowly.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> So I left roxy alone with the pups for about 30 mins yesterday afternoon but she did not like it at all. She kept whining and crying and wouldn't settle. I had to come back upstairs as the pups were all squealing and she was pacing around and stepping on them. As soon as I got her to settle down and sit down she was fine. I tried again at tea time and this time only for 15 mins but again it was the same sort of thing. So I don't think she actually likes being alone. I do know that when I've left the house (before puppies) the neighbours have said that she cried the whole time. She's one of those dogs that likes to sit on your feet or with her head in ur lap.
> Anyway I thought I'd leave it for another couple of days and then try again but slowly.


That is an adorable photo. It sounds like she has Separation Anxiety; there is a very handy sticky on that in the Training and Behaviour section (I think)


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> That is an adorable photo. It sounds like she has Separation Anxiety; there is a very handy sticky on that in the Training and Behaviour section (I think)


Ah ok I'll have a look thank u


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

The pups are coming on lovely.

Are their eyes beginning to open yet?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> The pups are coming on lovely.
> 
> Are their eyes beginning to open yet?


Yes all eyes are open and one of the pups has taken his first very wobbly steps today.
Just to say as well I went to the vets this afternoon as I couldn't get a response on the phone and they gave me the Panucur to do at home. The vet said the receptionist didn't understand the situation correctly. He's given me enough for 4 lots of treatment at 2, 4, 6 and 8 weeks. He also said that they don't need their first vaccinations until 8 weeks but I can go ahead and get them microchipped from 4 weeks old onwards which works out brilliantly as the pdsa van will be near me giving free chipping in 3 weeks.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Lemmsy
> Thank you for those links. Unfortunately the neutering for £30 isn't available to roxy as she is over 1 years of age.
> The free microchipping is excellent and there is 1 that is just a 5 minute walk from me.
> Yes I have done contracts. I tooked at the contract from the link and just put the things relevant to us into our contracts - simple things like the pup is pet quality only and the pups should be neutered by a certain date, giving me first refusal if they cannot continue to look after the pup no matter how far in the future etc.
> X


Have you looked at the links from the Dogs Trust? Some provide free neutering for staffies.

Likewise, I'd been inclined to give Gloucestershire Animal Welfare Association (the folks that provide subsidised neutering for staffies) a ring. Talk to them about the situation with Roxy, how you came to acquire her and the litter. They might be able to offer some vouchers or letters entitling new owners to discounted neutering for when the pups get to certain age and arrange something for Roxy too even, given the situation. You could possibly talk to them about rescue back up for the pups too. It's a bit of a 'if you don't ask you don't get' situation- but it's worth asking isn't it, if it'll help Rox and the pups for the future? You've done a sterling job with these pups and mummy 

All the best. I'm glad the microchipping links were a help.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sorry guys been really busy. My boy got a cut on 1 of his paws pads and has chewed about half of the pad off so I had to take him to the vets. He's always had issues with his paws but now the vet is taking a more proactive approach I'm hoping this will be the last of it.

Yes I did look at the links for neutering from the dogs trust but she doesn't meet the criteria as she's over 1 years of age.
I'm still keeping my ears to the ground thou but regardless of wether i get a discount or not she will be getting fixed once everything has gone back to normal (the vet recommended leaving it until about a month after the pups leave to give her milk bar to shrink back)
I'm going to ring round the shelters and ask about a back up plan for any remaining pups and my hubby and I have said we will keep the pups until 16 weeks, any left after that we will sign over but I don't want them to go to the shelter so I'm wondering if they might consider me fostering the pups until homes are found.
Anyway all the pups are now 'walking' and at least 1 is growling.
1 of the pups was attempting to eat roxy's food today after she spat some out on the floor. I'm not sure if this is early but I've been told that weaning starts from 3 weeks so need to do some research on that.
Been a busy few days and I am knackered. Just got to give the pups their last dose of wormer and then might go to bed lol


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I used to begin weaning at three weeks.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> I used to begin weaning at three weeks.


Oh right everyone I've spoken to says start at 2 weeks and then every 2 weeks after that. The vet confirmed when I asked about the dosage


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Sweety said:


> I used to begin weaning at three weeks.


Me too. Found pups were more than ready though, I think I could have started a few days earlier. They knew exactly what food was for, and adding wormer to it made it easier to get the wormer down.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Oh right everyone I've spoken to says start at 2 weeks and then every 2 weeks after that. The vet confirmed when I asked about the dosage


Sorry Sweety, I misread weaning for worming lol. Yes I will start weaning on Thursday. May I ask what you gave them and how much? I know the constancy should be porridge like. Someone mentioned to me a starter moose but others have said normal puppy biscuits mashed up with formula


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I used to wean onto human baby rice, made to a very loose consistency.

These days, however, Breeders tend to use a good quality kibble, softened with warm water to a mushy consistency.

I used to put the food on a large, shallow plate, big enough for all the pups to get round and let them eat what they wanted. They won't eat a lot at first, not until they get the hang of it anyway.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I weaned onto puppy food, softened by adding warm water. I also tried grinding the food in the coffee grinder and adding warm water so it more of a paste, but it didn't make any difference to how well they managed it.
When I wasn't worming in the same meal, I started out feeding 2 at a time. Having the food in one dish can lead to some pushier pups getting more than their share, smaller ones getting less, and the pups getting used to having to guard food to get their share - that can lead to problems later on. By time they were about 4 weeks old, they were eating from individual bowls and if one pup tried to raid another's, I stepped in to stop them; put more food in their own bowl so they got the idea that I'd provide all their food and they didn't have to compete for it..


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Burrowzig said:


> Me too. Found pups were more than ready though, I think I could have started a few days earlier. They knew exactly what food was for, and adding wormer to it made it easier to get the wormer down.


Please don't add the wormer to the food. Weigh each puppy and then syringe down the required amount. Use the vet's guideline for the litter to "sensecheck" your calculation, when you're tired it's easy to make mistakes. Yes, they hate it, but you know the right amount has gone into each puppy. Too little is how resistance to wormers develops, and an overdose could be dangerous.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> Please don't add the wormer to the food. Weigh each puppy and then syringe down the required amount. Use the vet's guideline for the litter to "sensecheck" your calculation, when you're tired it's easy to make mistakes. Yes, they hate it, but you know the right amount has gone into each puppy. Too little is how resistance to wormers develops, and an overdose could be dangerous.


Mine didn't hate it, ate the food as voraciously as usual. And I knew the wormer had gone in, not squirted or dribbled out and no risk of them choking on it. It was carefully measured out per pup by their weight. Obviously worming meals were done individually.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Burrowzig said:


> Mine didn't hate it, ate the food as voraciously as usual. And I knew the wormer had gone in, not squirted or dribbled out and no risk of them choking on it. It was carefully measured out per pup by their weight. Obviously worming meals were done individually.


I guess it depends on puppy and appetite. But point for OP is to make sure each puppy gets the correct dose. If they are start weaning soon ( Thursday), let them have in a small amount such that they eat it all, and of course, as above, feed separately.

Edited add, sorry if seems obvious, but isn't to everyone. I once came in to my morning shift at rescue, 3 cats from same household had come in the previous night. In amongst their leftover ( dried!) kibble were 3 untouched Drontal worming tablets - one for each cat!:Facepalm


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> I guess it depends on puppy and appetite. But point for OP is to make sure each puppy gets the correct dose. If they are start weaning soon ( Thursday), let them have in a small amount such that they eat it all, and of course, as above, feed separately.
> 
> Edited add, sorry if seems obvious, but isn't to everyone. I once came in to my morning shift at rescue, 3 cats from same household had come in the previous night. In *amongst their leftover ( dried!) kibble were 3 untouched Drontal worming tablets - one for each cat!*:Facepalm


Makes you wonder how the person who did that manages to dress themselves in the morning.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Hey guys. Had a hell of a week had the landlords builders doing something with my fence and they cut through me telephone cable so had no wifi for days.
Anyway, had to started weaning Wednesday afternoon as roxy (mum) was not allowing the pups to nurse as much so they were crying up a storm. They absolutely loved what I gave them and took to it very well and 1 or 3 of the pups are coming to the plates of their own accord. However, roxy is now refusing to nurse the pups at all and I'm having to actually lie her down again but sit next to her because as soon as I move away she rolls over so her milk bar is underneath her, so I've had to go back to spending more time upstairs as soon as I hear the pups so they can nurse.
The pups themselves are doing very well. I put puppy pads down yesterday to start the toilet training (im using the misty method) and at least 1 of the pups has got it already and the bed area was bone dry this morning. They are all walking and growling. We've had a few stand offs and they are mouthing each other but I've been told this is normal development.
I'm hoping to move the pups downstairs next week when they will be 4 weeks old so they can start getting used to the different noises that can happen in a household ie tv, door knocking, toddler crying etc


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

I dont know where you are [or have missed it in the reading]
but,
if you can get her there,
the Mayhew animal rescue do free bull breed neutering
they also do early neutering, so you *may *be able to get the pups done before theyre off to new homes

https://themayhew.org/animal-welfare/vet-clinic/neutering/


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Check Roxy, (if you haven't already), and be sure she doesn't have any lumpiness, swelling or heat in any of her teats, that could be the beginning of mastitis.

If she's fine, sometimes a bitch will decide she's had enough, particularly when the puppies teeth begin to erupt.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Check Roxy, (if you haven't already), and be sure she doesn't have any lumpiness, swelling or heat in any of her teats, that could be the beginning of mastitis.
> 
> If she's fine, sometimes a bitch will decide she's had enough, particularly when the puppies teeth begin to erupt.


I check her teats every day. 
Funnily enough the 2 pups I managed to check do have teeth erupting so this might be a factor. I do think she's had enough poor girl she's really been through it. She put on a good amount of weight after losing loads with the whelping but now she's lost weight again. I free feed her but we are upto about 7 cups of food a day. I wonder if she's stressed.
Do you think it would be alright to bring the pups down in to the living room tomorrow (they'd be 23 days)? I think she might settle a bit more if she's down here with us


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Yes, definitely.

I always had my bitches and their pups in the living room with us from the day they were born, tucked away under the stairs though.

It will do the pups good to hear a television, cars outside, etc., as their ears will be open now and the more they hear and see, the better for them.

I wouldn't allow your male dog in with them though, I think that may provoke an aggressive response from Roxy.

Has Roxy been a walk since the pups were born? If not, I think that may do her a lot of good now.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Yes, definitely.
> 
> I always had my bitches and their pups in the living room with us from the day they were born, tucked away under the stairs though.
> 
> ...


I'm going to do that tomorrow then (well later today). I only had them upstairs so that it was quiet for Roxy. 
My boy doesn't come in the living room often as he prefers to just lie on his bed all day although I have a stair gate on the door so he won't be able to get in anyway.
No she hasn't been out for walks as she won't go. She doesn't mind leaving the house but as soon as we get to the gate she starts trying to back up and struggle loose of her collar


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

If you don't think the puppies are getting enough milk you could see if they will lap Whelpi. Wouldn't hurt mum to have a bit too.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Catharinem said:


> If you don't think the puppies are getting enough milk you could see if they will lap Whelpi. Wouldn't hurt mum to have a bit too.


They are getting the milk if mum let's them. It must be uncomfortable for her to not feed as yesterday when I checked on them her teats were really full even the front ones. I've been giving mum some replacement formula for about a week now as they were drinking her dry.
I'm bringing them downstairs to the living room today so I'm hoping that will make the difference.

Quick question about the weaning. The pups are loving the food but do they need water now as well as I've noticed a couple of them are lapping at mums water.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Yes, let them have access to water. Is mum's bowl nice and shallow, some of them put whole faces in until get the hang of lapping. 
If she'll let you you can express some of her milk by hand - not enough to stimulate even more production, but just to ease the pressure.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Catharinem said:


> Yes, let them have access to water. Is mum's bowl nice and shallow, some of them put whole faces in until get the hang of lapping.
> If she'll let you you can express some of her milk by hand - not enough to stimulate even more production, but just to ease the pressure.


Oh I don't know how to express I'll have to look it up but I can try.
Mums bowl is quite deep but I have a smaller bowl I used to use for guinea pigs that is much shallower so I will use that.
The pups are all moved downstairs and they are just getting used to the new set up. They've now got 2 areas, 1 for toileting and 1 for eating/playing, and I'm using mums crate as their bed area. Only trouble I'm having is they have to go past the toilet to get to the play bit as they obviously need the toilet right by the bed at the moment or they don't make it


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

As long as they're "holding it" to not mess their bed that's really good news


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Catharinem said:


> As long as they're "holding it" to not mess their bed that's really good news


Yes I actually got woken up at 6am to them all crying because the door had closed and they were trying to get out and they all went to toilet. 2 of them actually made it to the far corner before they went. Such clever little puppies


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## McKayz86 (Jan 31, 2016)

How are Mum and pups @lovemydogs86 ?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sorry for no updates. Things haven't been great. Roxy got sick and had a nasty infection that ended in her being extremely dehydrated to the point of having a fit and going into shock. She's thankfully better now after antibiotics and iv fluids followed by electrolytes at home every hour. However she has turned nasty. I've taken her back to the vets and he did some more blood work and she's physically now fine but she is so aggressive I've had to remove her from the puppies unless she's muzzled. She's bitten me, snarled at my husband and last night had my daughter pinned to the floor whilst eating daughters crisps to which unfortunately my boy dog came flying over the stair gate when he heard my daughter screaming and me shouting and launched roxy across the room thankfully there were no injuries although my boy was wound up and very anxious for a while after so I had to medicate him. She's turning on the pups as well. She's also eliminating in the house despite being outside just minutes before.

Not sure what to do tbh and I'm starting to worry I may need to rehome her. I don't want to but my daughters safety must come first


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

How terrible, after all you've been through.

Rehoming Roxy isn't an option, in my opinion. If she's attacked your Daughter and is showing aggression to you and other dogs, she really isn't safe. I really do hate to say this, but if her aggression continues to escalate in this way, having her put to sleep may be your only choice.

I wouldn't allow her in the same room as your Daughter or her pups at the moment.

Could you have a good chat to your Vet about the best option for her?

Very, very sad for you.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> How terrible, after all you've been through.
> 
> Rehoming Roxy isn't an option, in my opinion. If she's attacked your Daughter and is showing aggression to you and other dogs, she really isn't safe. I really do hate to say this, but if her aggression continues to escalate in this way, having her put to sleep may be your only choice.
> 
> ...


Your right of course I may have to.
I did have a good chat with the vet when her bloods came back as no physical reason for the aggression and putting her to sleep did come up but he said he can't be sure if she will continue in this way once the pups are gone. It started when the pups started having more food than milk but the vet doesn't think this would have caused a complete turn around in her.
I'm wondering if this could be having the pups so young has had some kind of psychological implications, can dogs get ptsd?
I've kept her out of the way since yesturday unless the pups need to fed at which time I muzzle her and once that's done I remove her from the room again. Im suprised but the pups are not bothered by this, thet even seem hesitant to approach her to nursr amd as soon as they fed at lunch time they moved away from her immediatly. She's in the kitchen or garden almost constantly now which isn't ideal and certainly can't be a long term solution but it's the only room my daughter doesn't have access to so it's the safest option.
I've only got 2 of the pups left to sell so come the 7th April things will start getting back to normality.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Hormones can cause changes in the behaviour of a bitch for sure, but such a level of aggression really isn't normal.

It isn't rare for a bitch to become fed up with her pups after a while, though it is a little unusual for her to become aggressive to her pups.

What is particularly worrying is what she did to your Daughter.

Is Roxy going for walks again now?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Hormones can cause changes in the behaviour of a bitch for sure, but such a level of aggression really isn't normal.
> 
> It isn't rare for a bitch to become fed up with her pups after a while, though it is a little unusual for her to become aggressive to her pups.
> 
> ...


She kept begging for food from my daughter so I made sure she was ignored but last night she jumped up and knocked my daughter off the chair and pinned her whist trying to get the crisp packet off her and even with my daughter screaming she didn't seemed bothered. It must of only taken me seconds to get up from the table but by then my boy had got in the living room. I'm taking her back to the vets tomorrow cos my daughters just come to the kitchen gate to ask for a drink and roxy's barked at her. My daughters kind of scared of her now but thankfully she's still ok with my boy.
Yes she's back to her regular walks now.


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## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

Oh that's heartbreaking! But I must say you are fantastic (been an avid thread lurker sorry).

If it was me I'd set a time limit in my head and a reaction limit too and then take Sweetys advice if no improvement/behaviourist suggestions. Sad though it is she is right that it may well be for the best. 

Big big hugs to you - you are doing so so amazingly well. If I'm a quarter of the person you are I'm happy xxx


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm so sorry to hear this, what a terribly sad outcome for you. I really hope this is a blip and the vet can get to the bottom of her behaviour. Your poor little girl though, I can't imagine how scared she must have been


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Hi quick question. The pups are 5 weeks old today and on solid food and water but were still nursing last night however roxy is now getting up and moving away when they are suckling so is that it now or do they still need milk.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

She's probably had enough of them now they're getting rougher, but they still need a bit. You can offer Whelpi if they're lapping water, offer both in separate bowls, not as an alternative to water. They really need to be with their mum cuddling and snuggling and learning doggy goid manners,,but a lot depends on her temper, don't want them learning bad manners.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

If Roxy is showing aggression to the pups and they appear fearful of her, I really wouldn't risk trying to put them with her. It just isn't worth it as she could kill a pup with one snap.

They've had a good start in life, it's not ideal that they're separated from Mum, but the wise thing to do, in my opinion.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh no, so very sorry to hear the latest update - I'm keeping everything crossed that it's maybe down to her being so unwell and maybe just being a bit out of kilter / hormones being unsettled as a result and that there's no more incidents.

I do agree with others though - if the worst comes to the worst, pts is the kinder thing than the risk she may end up being passed around / languish in rescue for ages & ages (and lets be honest, there are 000s of poor Staffs in rescue who can't find homes without having shown aggression) 

Everything crossed here.... poor girl has been through so much and it would just be heartbreaking to have to make that decision


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Update. A family friend has offered to take roxy in. She has no other dogs, no children and only works part time. She's knows everything that has happened and has said if I agreed she would take roxy and if there's no change in her behaviour would pts. 
I've spoken to the vet again about her walking away and she said at 5 weeks there shouldn't be any ill effects for the pups to not nurse and to just offer more solid food and water and as long as the littermates stay together until 8 weeks understands that I need to keep everyone safe
A lot to think about


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Update. A family friend has offered to take roxy in. She has no other dogs, no children and only works part time. She's knows everything that has happened and has said if I agreed she would take roxy and if there's no change in her behaviour would pts.
> I've spoken to the vet again about her walking away and she said at 5 weeks there shouldn't be any ill effects for the pups to not nurse and to just offer more solid food and water and as long as the littermates stay together until 8 weeks understands that I need to keep everyone safe
> A lot to think about


You poor thing, what an awful lot to think on. The great thing is that you have someone who you know and trust who will take her on. You really have to think of your daughter as well, so this sounds like a great solution.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

If your friend is fully aware of Roxy's problems and you feel at ease letting her go there, it could be the answer for you.

The pups will not suffer any harm from not having access to Mum at five weeks old. I once handreared a litter, completely independent from Mum, and they all made healthy, happy and well adjusted dogs. Please don't worry about the pups, they will be fine.

You do need to be sure though that your Friend is capable of managing Roxy and, more importantly, will not allow any situation to arise where she could be a danger to children or other dogs.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Last night went really. The pups went to sleep as usual and only woke once at 3am but were quite happy to have a drink of water and some solid food before going back to sleep whilst roxy slept in the kitchen. There was no pining from either party so I think I'm going to take my friend up on her offer.
She said she's going to get a red lead and only walk her early morning and late at night.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Sounds like the best solution all round, she knows what she's taking on, and willing to PTS if it comes to that. Really hope it works out, but PTS kinder than kennels and on to yet another family for another try. 

Have the puppy owners seen them with mum before she goes?


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Last night went really. The pups went to sleep as usual and only woke once at 3am but were quite happy to have a drink of water and some solid food before going back to sleep whilst roxy slept in the kitchen. There was no pining from either party so I think I'm going to take my friend up on her offer.
> She said she's going to get a red lead and only walk her early morning and late at night.


This is great news and, I suspect, such a relief for you


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Catharinem said:


> Sounds like the best solution all round, she knows what she's taking on, and willing to PTS if it comes to that. Really hope it works out, but PTS kinder than kennels and on to yet another family for another try.
> 
> Have the puppy owners seen them with mum before she goes?


5 of the buyers have seen them with mum but I've taken lots of photos of them together and the lady that's having roxy only lives 5 mins away and said she'd be willing to bring her over if potential buyers wanted to see her with the pups


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Last night went really. The pups went to sleep as usual and only woke once at 3am but were quite happy to have a drink of water and some solid food before going back to sleep whilst roxy slept in the kitchen. There was no pining from either party so I think I'm going to take my friend up on her offer.
> She said she's going to get a red lead and only walk her early morning and late at night.


Sounds like the best solution & fingers crossed for her .... a 'I need space' vest / other stuff might be useful as well - they're very lightweight so shoudn't be too hot to wear even in summer but stand out a long way http://www.yellowdoguk.co.uk/index.php/online-store


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Update. Roxy went to her new home on Saturday. She has settled really well and is much happier.
The puppies are happy and don't seem at all bothered by their mum not being here.
I feed them 4 times a day and then they lap some replacement milk last thing at night. They are all now eliminating in the potty area and not in bed.
We are seeing quite a bit of fighting and has gotten out of hand a few times but some loud clapping stops them quickly. They all are nipping everything but a high yelp seems enough to stop them.
They are getting so big and have started showing their own little personalities.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Update. Roxy went to her new home on Saturday. She has settled really well and is much happier.
> The puppies are happy and don't seem at all bothered by their mum not being here.
> I feed them 4 times a day and then they lap some replacement milk last thing at night. They are all now eliminating in the potty area and not in bed.
> We are seeing quite a bit of fighting and has gotten out of hand a few times but some loud clapping stops them quickly. They all are nipping everything but a high yelp seems enough to stop them.
> They are getting so big and have started showing their own little personalities.


I'm so pleased to hear the Roxy is much happier; this is obviously the best outcome for all of you


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Gosh it's been a while. 7 7 week old puppies leave no time at all lol.
Well what can I say my gorgeous little puppies have turned into little monkeys.
Chewing and ripping up the paper and then dragging it in to their bed, nipping, fighting, and tipping up their water bowl.
Im constantly cleaning something lol.
Toileting was going well and they don't eliminate in their bed but everywhere else seems to be fair game - not sure where I'm going wrong tbh


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

How is it going finding new homes for them?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> How is it going finding new homes for them?


Found homes for all but 2 of them x


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Found homes for all but 2 of them x


That's great news! Will one of the shelters help with finding homes for the others, do you think?


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## Darkangelwitch (Mar 16, 2016)

You mentioned you have contacted pdsa and rspca - have you tried dogs trust? When we privately rescued Shona they wow awesome and helped out with her speying.

They will probably help homing the pups too when the time comes so please give them a call or go to your local dogs trust kennels - if you don't ask you don't get.

Good luck xxx


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

They've said they can try and help but it would mean signing them over to them so they would end up in the shelter which I don't want so I've spoken to my husband and we've said well wait until they are 12 weeks and if I still can't find them homes then we will look at the situation again


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> They've said they can try and help but it would mean signing them over to them so they would end up in the shelter which I don't want so I've spoken to my husband and we've said well wait until they are 12 weeks and if I still can't find them homes then we will look at the situation again


Oh no, I can imagine how much you don't want that for the little things


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

The rescue I volunteer for would ask for puppies and dogs to generally be signed over as have found from past experiences get so far along and owners then rehome themselves or change mind etc. Also then the dogs can be adopted under our contract which means lifetime support neutering costs are covered for new owners and we follow up that it's done etc. 

Would also generally look at foster homes for the pups... they do tend to be pretty popular so prob wouldn't be there long!

Followed your story from the start you've done a fab job x


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Hi ladies need some advice. So the puppies are 8 weeks today and 4 have gone to their new homes.
I have 3 left with me 2 boys and a girl.
My problem is that the girl and 1 of the boys are constantly fighting. I don't believe this is play anymore they are actually go at each other nastily. The other boy tries to stay well out of it and cowers in the bed. Occasionally if they pick on him he will put them to rights and then come to me on the sofa.
Distraction was working originally by just clapping loudly or a sharp "ah ah" but now I'm having to physically stop them and separate them or they go at it straight away.
Any tips on what I can do?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I had this once with a litter of PRT pups when a dog puppy wouldn't tolerate his litter Sisters and was attacking them. It is very unusual.

They need to be separated. Ideally, they need to be away to new homes. Do you still not have homes for these three?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Sweety said:


> I had this once with a litter of PRT pups when a dog puppy wouldn't tolerate his litter Sisters and was attacking them. It is very unusual.
> 
> They need to be separated. Ideally, they need to be away to new homes. Do you still not have homes for these three?


No, no homes for the last 3. They both are instigators but will occasionally gang up on the 3rd pup and tag team him so he spends a lot of time on my lap now. I find it quite strange as he if the biggest by far yet he only rarely reacts.
We've had quite a nasty fight tonight and the boy has drawn a drop of blood from his sister and she's very shaken so she's curled up in my dressing gown at the moment.
I've searched online for a solution until I find new homes but all I can find is how it's a bad idea to have littermates together for an extended time lol


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

You do need to separate them. Is there anyone who can help and take one of them? Otherwise, move one of them to another room.

I do feel now you need to seek help from the Dogs Trust or Blue Cross, or any reputable Rescue Organisation who can help you.

Your pups need to be away from each other now.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

I'll sort something first thing tomorrow then. Unfortunately it's friends that have taken the other 4 so that's a no go. I'll think of something.
Thanks


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I've not posted before - but huge well done on everything you've coped with and for getting this far 
I just wanted to reassure you that handing them over to a rescue isn't a "bad" thing.
My puppy is a rescue - due to his poor health he was with the rescue from 6 to 14 weeks of age, during this time he was in a foster home that helped teach him all about the world.
The rescue had so many applications for the puppies they could be really fussy about who got to have one, they said they could of rehomed them 10 times over 
I exchanged e-mails, had several phone conversations and a long face to face meeting with hone check to ensure to the best of their ability I was the best possible home for one of the puppies.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Managed to separate them so they now have a separate beds, play areas and potty areas. There in the same room but I only have a living room and kitchen downstairs and my boy lives in the kitchen. Looks like kennels if I'm honest but they are getting time out in the rest of the living room. Only trouble is now I've changed the set up they are toileting everywhere not just on the paper.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Managed to separate them so they now have a separate beds, play areas and potty areas. There in the same room but I only have a living room and kitchen downstairs and my boy lives in the kitchen. Looks like kennels if I'm honest but they are getting time out in the rest of the living room. Only trouble is now I've changed the set up they are toileting everywhere not just on the paper.


Poor you. It really is too much. You have been so amazing, but maybe now you need to hand them over the Dogs Trust


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Do think about letting them go to a reputable Rescue.

They're the perfect age now to go into new homes and, the older they get, the harder it will be for them.

I know how hard it is for you, but if you could get the Dogs Trust to take them, it really would be best all round.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Soz Yh I forgot to say I phoned the dogs trust and the rspca today. The dogs trust I had to leave a message so have to wait for someone to phone me back and the rspca said they may be able to take them but if they need to be separated it may be difficult finding somewhere with the room so someone is coming to speak to me on Monday. 
I also phone cheltenham animal shelter but they said they are full to bursting and actually looking for fosterers so they are only taking stray and suggested I ask another shelter (teckles) but couldn't get through so will try again Monday if the rspca can't help


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Soz Yh I forgot to say I phoned the dogs trust and the rspca today. The dogs trust I had to leave a message so have to wait for someone to phone me back and the rspca said they may be able to take them but if they need to be separated it may be difficult finding somewhere with the room so someone is coming to speak to me on Monday.
> I also phone cheltenham animal shelter but they said they are full to bursting and actually looking for fosterers so they are only taking stray and suggested I ask another shelter (teckles) but couldn't get through so will try again Monday if the rspca can't help


Good luck. x


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> Poor you. It really is too much. You have been so amazing, but maybe now you need to hand them over the Dogs Trust


Your right it really is becoming too much.
Especially with my boy. He's only just 7 but looks like a dog on his last legs. The vet can't find anything wrong with him except his hip joints might be a bit sore as he's having trouble getting up and down stairs, on and off the sofa etc and he was clearing 4ft fences just 6 months ago


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Soz Yh I forgot to say I phoned the dogs trust and the rspca today. The dogs trust I had to leave a message so have to wait for someone to phone me back and the rspca said they may be able to take them but if they need to be separated it may be difficult finding somewhere with the room so someone is coming to speak to me on Monday.
> I also phone cheltenham animal shelter but they said they are full to bursting and actually looking for fosterers so they are only taking stray and suggested I ask another shelter (teckles) but couldn't get through so will try again Monday if the rspca can't help


Hadn't realised you were in the gloucestershire area, have you tried The Blue Cross near Burford?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Siskin said:


> Hadn't realised you were in the gloucestershire area, have you tried The Blue Cross near Burford?


Oh no I haven't didn't realise we had one in the area. I'll phone them Monday as well then 
thanks


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Managed to rehome the girl last night so just the 2 boys and have to say it's been alot quieter since she left I even had both boys out at the same time with no fighting


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Managed to rehome the girl last night so just the 2 boys and have to say it's been alot quieter since she left I even had both boys out at the same time with no fighting


You must feel like you're on holiday now! I can't stop saying this, but you truly have done an amazing job. Both the mother and the puppies really were so lucky that you came along.

Speaking of mum, have you heard how she's getting on?


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> You must feel like you're on holiday now! I can't stop saying this, but you truly have done an amazing job. Both the mother and the puppies really were so lucky that you came along.
> 
> Speaking of mum, have you heard how she's getting on?


Yes unfortunately she's got the beginnings of a womb infection so her new owner has booked her in for a semi emergancy spay tomorrow morning.
Other than that she's really happy


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Yes unfortunately she's got the beginnings of a womb infection so her new owner has booked her in for a semi emergancy spay tomorrow morning.
> Other than that she's really happy


Oh poor girl. So glad to hear that she's happy, and with the spay at least you know she will never have to go through this ever again


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> Oh poor girl. So glad to hear that she's happy, and with the spay at least you know she will never have to go through this ever again


Yeah the new owner did have her booked in for a couple of weeks time but when she went to the vet yesturday the vet was concerned as she was still having discharge that was slightly smelly and said she'd have an easier recovery if they did it now before she's showing other symptoms


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

It could be why she was so grumpy, it's likely to have been brewing for a while.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Hey guys this is the last puppy named 'bear'
We think he might be crossed with some mastiff but not sure. We know for definite that roxy (his mum) was pure staffy.
He's 11 weeks old and is a little devil lol


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Hey guys this is the last puppy named 'bear'
> We think he might be crossed with some mastiff but not sure. We know for definite that roxy (his mum) was pure staffy.
> He's 11 weeks old and is a little devil lol


Gosh, he's huge, I'm not surprised you called him Bear. Do you think you may keep him?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

He's a bonny pup.

I would say too there's likely something bigger than Staffy in the mix.


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> Gosh, he's huge, I'm not surprised you called him Bear. Do you think you may keep him?


Hmm we are thinking we might have to. We've had no intrest in him at all and everytime my neighbour takes him for a cuddle my daughter goes mad saying "NO! bear mine" and then gets really upset until she gives him back lol
We didn't want another boy as my boy dog is usually male aggressive but so far he only shown happy curiosity and excitment


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lovemydogs86 said:


> Hmm we are thinking we might have to. We've had no intrest in him at all and everytime my neighbour takes him for a cuddle my daughter goes mad saying "NO! bear mine" and then gets really upset until she gives him back lol
> We didn't want another boy as my boy dog is usually male aggressive but so far he only shown happy curiosity and excitment


Oh yay, you have a new puppy! Who are you to deny your daughter.,,,


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> Oh yay, you have a new puppy! Who are you to deny your daughter.,,,


I know I don't think I could do that to her she's become really attached. 
Also as my neighbour said if my boy hasn't shown any negative signs towards the pup it was just meant to be as he really does have a problem with other males


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I don't want to upset you at all but, a male aggressive dog will only normally become aggressive towards a male pup when the pup reaches sexual maturity, at around 6/9 months.

The puppy is no threat at the moment, but when testosterone rears it's ugly head, it could become a problem.

I had a PRT boy who lived happily with his own Son, played with him, shared a crate with him and slept with him until the pup was seven months old and then all hell broke loose.

Do be very watchful.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Sweety said:


> I don't want to upset you at all but, a male aggressive dog will only normally become aggressive towards a male pup when the pup reaches sexual maturity, at around 6/9 months.
> 
> The puppy is no threat at the moment, but when testosterone rears it's ugly head, it could become a problem.
> 
> ...


Oh


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

But remember, Sweety's PRT was the dad, therefore either not neutered or neutered a maximum of 9 months before his son was 7 months, even if neutered the same day he made the pup's mum pregnant.
Neutering doesn't solve everything, but for male agression to other males when they reach puberty it might. 
Be careful and aware,,but don't rule it out.
Well done homing the others. And if Roxy stays in her new home rather than bouncing back to you then you are down by 1 dog.:Joyful


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## lovemydogs86 (Feb 6, 2016)

Hi haven't updated in months but I just wanted to share the news I've had recently as u were all so great in out time of need.
Roxy developed a very nasty womb infection and had to have an emergency spay. Unfortunately after battling for 2 months she died in her sleep. It has obviously hit everyone quite hard as she had seemed to be getting better.
On a positive note all the pups are doing amazingly and are absolutely huge. One of the owners paid for dna test to be done and the pups are staffy x mastiff so they could potentially be quite big dogs. 
I just want to say a huge thank u to everyone who helped me and roxy get through it all as I don't think I would have coped without ur advice.
X


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## McKayz86 (Jan 31, 2016)

I'm so sorry to hear about Roxy. Run free Roxy x


I'm glad the pups are doing well, must be nice to get to know how they are getting on.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

So sad about Roxy, poor little girl.,so glad she was loved for her last few months.
The pups sound amazing !


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

sorry to hear about Roxy, did you keep one of the puppies in the end or not.


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## Ownedbymany (Nov 16, 2014)

Sorry to hear about Roxy but it sounds like you did a fab job of looking after her and the pups so I hope that brings some comfort to you.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

So sorry to hear this. Might explain her behaviour, at least you found homes for the puppies and she had a good home who loved her, even though she was only there a short time. 
Thanks for updating us, must be very hard for you, but you did your best by her and no -one could ask more.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that. The poor girl really did go through it, didn't she.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Aww, poor Roxy. At least she was loved and cared for and you did absolutely everything you could for her and her puppies.


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## StrawberryBlonde (May 27, 2015)

Aw so sorry to hear this. You put so much effort and love into getting her & the pups happy & healthy. We will remember what you did for Roxy x


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## Team_Trouble (Apr 11, 2016)

Oh no :'( I'm so sad for your poor girl Roxy. She had such a hard life. I truly hope she's in a better place now, poor baby.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

So sorry to read that.I hope you have found comfort in knowing that you did everything you could for her, and that she knew nothing but love while she was with you.
Glad to hear the puppies are doing well.

Run free at the bridge Roxy.xx


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## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Oh no. Bless her heart.
R.I.P. Roxy x


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## froglet (Nov 17, 2012)

Oh my 
I've read this thread in one go from page one.
I can't believe you lost Roxy  RIP gorgeous girl xxx Well done for doing all that you did for her


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