# Trouble introducing a 3 month kitten to my 2 year old cat. Both males.



## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I've spoke to a few people on here via someone else's thread but just though I'd start my own one. I've had a cat since he was a kitten, he's two years old now, a month ago my bf surprised me with a new kitten, they're from the same breeder and the breeder said we didn't need to do the slow introduction- big mistake! Since then we've had real trouble reintroducing them. I'll outline what we've done so far. 

Week 1:

Let them roam together, Sidney the older cat would lick Alfie, the kitten, a lot but this gradually became more aggressive, there wasn't really any hissing or yowling but there was moderate fighting. So we decided to do slow reintroduction. 

Week 2:

Separated, kitten has front room, cat has rest of flat. They were separated by a trellis in the doorway covered with a blanket so they could still hear/smell each other. Would reward the older cat with treats if he reacted well to being near kitten (with no contact still). No hissing or growling/yowling. 

Week 3: 

Let them spend short periods of time together. Older cat would lick the kitten but would always end in a fight. The kitten has never been scared of the older cat and would often chase after him. As the week went on the fighting was more often. No cuts or bleeding. Decided it was too soon for them to spend time together. 

Week 4:

Completely separated again. Scent swapping and site swapping, no contact. Sidney the older cat seems to be getting worse tho, he only has to hear the kitten meow and he hisses and yowls/growls and tries to get at him. He also swipes at me now as well when he's in this stressed state. He quickly calms down when he sits in another room. The kitten still doesn't seem to be bothered or frightened by the older cat. The older cat is totally non bothered by the scent swapping socks. I started giving my older cat zylkene on Tuesday but so far it's made no difference. Should I give him two capsules, he's a big boy, can they OD on zylkene?

So this is where we're up to, is there anything else we can do? Is it just a case of being patient and taking it very slowly?

Any advice gratefully received!

Thanks

Mary-Ann.


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## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

Are they both done? How old is the kitten?



> The kitten still doesn't seem to be bothered or frightened by the older cat


This is probably the problem to be honest. The kitten is bold and bold kittens make bold cats and bold cats take over and your older cat does not want that, he likes being the boss. They do have to establish a pecking order but at the same time you don't want your kitten hurt.

Not sure exactly how you've done things but try feeding them either side of the "barrier" so they can hear and smell one another but no contact. Food is good, if he gets food only around the kitten maybe he will start associating the kitten with good things. Only fuss, play, treat him when hes by the barrier for the same reasons...it does kind of leave the kitten out in the cold a bit but your partner could sit the other side and do the same with the kitten.

I would carry on with them separated for a while until hissing growling etc stops, then remove the blanket so they can see each other but keep up with the "good" things only being given when they can see each other...once growling stops move on to gentle and brief introductions...barrier removed, treats given in doorway.

If all that fails...join my club. My cats do not get on, largely because of Jasper, my hand reared boy...he doesn't like other male cats whether they are done or not. Hes not keen on boss cat Floss but grudgingly accepts second place in the pecking order


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## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks, our older boy has been neutered, the kitten hasn't been done yet but will be in a few months. We've not done the feeding near each other so will do that tomorrow morn at next feeding time. One of the problems we found when we let them spend small amounts of time with each other after separation was that our older boy just kept following the kitten around, just wouldn't leave him alone, he'd try to assert his dominance but the kitten is very bold and a lot more confident than our older boy! I think we just have to take it very slowly!


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## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Hey can you say a bit more about you've done so far in terms of scent swapping. I may have a few tricks to add to that 

Please be patient and bear in mind what is slow for us humans may be still too fast for our cats.


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## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

Hiya, for scent swapping we've just got some socks and rubbed their scents on and put them around the flat. The kitten has three scent socks in his room and our older cat has 5 scent socks around the flat. Neither seem to be bothered by the socks tho and completely ignore them.


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## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Fosterprops said:


> Hiya, for scent swapping we've just got some socks and rubbed their scents on and put them around the flat. The kitten has three scent socks in his room and our older cat has 5 scent socks around the flat. Neither seem to be bothered by the socks tho and completely ignore them.


I've experienced that - in some cases - elaborate scent swapping could help with introductions. So maybe with re-introductions too. This is what I was asked to do for my cats to make them believe they're best friends. But to be clear for the first 5-6 weeks they lived in separate rooms but we let them use (not at the same time) some areas such as kitchen, hallway and our lounge.

How many litter trays do you have? I have 2 litter trays and when Daisy moved in with us, she was locked in the room with her own tray and Leo used a separate one. But at the end of the day I had to swap them, often without cleaning them fully. The next trick was to give my cats smaller portions in the morning so they ate their food and licked the bowl. Then I had to swap the bowls without cleaning them and put more food in. Saliva is very fragrant and by exchanging saliva cats learn to recognise and accept each other. I actually used this trick with bowl swapping more than once a day.

The next stage for me was to feed my cats at the same time but keep them a fair distance apart but still allow them to look at each other. I had to be ready to step in to stop any potential trouble. This was to let my Leo associate nice things like food with Daisy, the trouble maker. Every few days I had to make this distance shorter and shorter. Seriously, after 3 weeks Daisy was able to eat and ignore Leo who was by then less than half a meter away. Needless to say, supervision of any interaction was still necessary. They slept in separate rooms and behind shut doors. After about 5 weeks I opened the doors to Leo's room one morning and Daisy was waiting right outside. She came in and they just nicely greeted each other 

And you can also swap their bedding and toys. I even sometimes rubbed gently Daisy's cheeks with a small cotton towel and put it in Leo's bed.

And please please play with your older cat and give him lots of affection regardless if the kitten is nearby or not


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## VickyA79 (Sep 4, 2014)

If your cat is 5kg or more, you can give him two tablets a day. I think I've put a link below. Page 5 shows the dosage.

http://www.zylkenepet.co.uk/downloads/Pet_Leaflet.pdf

I've read that Zylkene takes between 48 hours and two weeks to work x


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## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks, we're getting the kitten neutered on Monday as it's been suggested that this will help, once his testosterone levels drop Sidney will hopefully see him as less of a threat. Once he's been neutered we will start the reintroduction again, this will prob be a few weeks after the op as it can take a few weeks for the testosterone levels to drop.


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## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

So the zylkene seems to be working, we've not had anymore hissing or growling/yowling for a few days. I'll keep him in it for a few more weeks. My one concern is that once he comes off it he'll be stressed again. Do you think this is the case or will it just give us some time to get him settled.


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## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Zylkene is a safe supplement. You can use it for weeks. Just try to do scent swapping daily and apply some tips others suggested. It simply takes time ... and the power of positive thinking. Seriously I do believe cats pick up on our vibes! 

In case your male cats don't get along in few months from now you may need to consult a cat behaviour expert and/or find a new home for one if them. It wouldn't be kind to let them live in a stressful environment.


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## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

Did you give your cat zylkene because it was stressed with the new arrival? Did he/she become stressed again after they came off of zylkene?


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## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

I gave Leo Zylkene for a while as he was scared on Daisy (she was a new comer and only half his size). I was doing site and scent swapping on a daily basis for 5 weeks. I took Leo off Zylkene about week 3 when I noticed some progress, eg. he was happy to eat and look at Daisy wolfing down her meal a few meters away. So his body language was my main clue


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## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

Ah ok, so Leo didn't go back to being scared of daisy as he'd gotten used to her by that time. Alfie, the kitten is being neutered tomorrow so we'll properly start reintroducing them after he's recovered from that. What I'm hoping is that when I take Sidney off zylkene he'll have gotten use to and accepted the kitten and so will no longer be stressed/threatened by him. I realise this could still be several weeks away.


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## Fosterprops (Nov 9, 2012)

So we've started to feed the cats either side of the front room door, Sidney's a few feet away, Sidney's mostly ok when they're actually eating but he still hisses and growls at bit at othe times. Alfie, the kitten, is no problem at all but Sidney seems to be getting worse with the less contact they have. The only time they see each other is when they're eating. Any suggestions?


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