# Question about registration of a breeder.



## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Hi - I'm interested in buying my second bengal. I was told it was registered to TICA and GCCF and was shown certification. However, when I checked the registration numbers on Bengalpedigrees.com it comes up with no results. The mother and father of the cat in question are both registered. Is this abnormal and should I refrain from buying the cat or what? 


thanks for any help!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Pedigree databases usually only contain information that breeders have sent in, if someone doesn't send in that pedigree then you'll get no results on your search.

You can check that the breeders prefix is registered with TICA and/or GCCF. And ask the breeder about what paperwork the kitten will come with.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> You can check that the breeders prefix is registered with TICA and/or GCCF


Whether or not the breeder has a prefix proves nothing. The OP needs to check the registration of the cats and sight of their registration documents should be enough.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I'm interested in buying my second bengal.


Why not go back to the breeder you got your first one from?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Do you want to email me as I know Bengal breeders in London (I used to breed them myself) and I know some really reputable ones 

Are both parents HCM scanned and PKDEF tested?

OH also bengalpedigrees I think is people that add their owns cats, mine don't show up, I never added them, but their parents parents do etc !


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Hi guys! thanks for the help. We called GCCF and they told is the cat in question was registered. Would it be OK for me to still email you Taylor? We're looking for another kitten and you've been a massive help to me on this forum and the Bengal one so I'd respect your opinion on certain breeders! I'm based in London, so London is where I will be getting the kitten from eventually.


Thanks for all the responses guys!


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

havoc said:


> Why not go back to the breeder you got your first one from?


The breeder we got Lily from has beautiful cats but I want a brown rosetted not a lynx point (is that right?) she does not breed the colour I am lusting after. She also did not get back to us with our pedigree papers and cut all communication instead of telling us she was busy or was having issues. It kind of rubbed us the wrong way as we paid a huge amount and have no pedigree certificate to show for it. We're being much more careful this time and would prefer a breeder who is able to communicate openly.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Every time I have brought a cat registered with the GCCF I have got the papers when I have collected the kitten, and I think I'd be rather inclined to walk away if they weren't ready with the kitten.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Every time I have brought a cat registered with the GCCF I have got the papers when I have collected the kitten, and I think I'd be rather inclined to walk away if they weren't ready with the kitten


Providing a 3 generation (minimum) pedigree is a rule with the GCCF. It is perfectly acceptable not to provide the registration documents *as long as it is agreed in writing signed by both parties*. If the kitten isn't registered then the breeder *must* supply a mating certificate so the new owner can do the registration. It is so frustrating to hear these stories which would have been sorted if the kitten buyer had only put in a complaint at the time.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

And that is a careless breeder, as there is nothing to stop the kitten being registered active.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> And that is a careless breeder, as there is nothing to stop the kitten being registered active.


Waste of time if it's already neutered. If I had a vet who would early neuter I would leave it up to the new owner to register if they wished. It's a tenner towards the cost of neutering and better use of that money.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

havoc said:


> Providing a 3 generation (minimum) pedigree is a rule with the GCCF. It is perfectly acceptable not to provide the registration documents *as long as it is agreed in writing signed by both parties*. If the kitten isn't registered then the breeder *must* supply a mating certificate so the new owner can do the registration. It is so frustrating to hear these stories which would have been sorted if the kitten buyer had only put in a complaint at the time.


Your assumptions are a bit off mark! 
The kitten was SUPPOSED to be registered with TICA. 
The seller told us she would egister them together when all kittens sold (agreed upon, by both parties and I believe it's in the contract.) 
It is a different kitten to the one mentioned in the title.
The seller is a very well known seller who competes in worldwide shows.
We had no reason to believe we should worry.

Any questions please do ask.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

havoc said:


> Waste of time if it's already neutered. If I had a vet who would early neuter I would leave it up to the new owner to register if they wished. It's a tenner towards the cost of neutering and better use of that money.


Christ you guys seem cranky.
The kitten (lily) was neutered before we got her as per the contract and that's what we wanted. We did not want to breed her she was a gift to myself from my boyfriend to keep me company. I had no knowledge of breeding and like hell was I going to risk my kitten for anything.

I'm not sure how my thread got from me asking for help to this, it's a bit off topic. Regardless of what you both think I did everything I could (research, communication and contact, correct procedure after purchasing and so on) to ensure things went smoothly. The BREEDER in this case cut off contact and did not supply TICA papers. It's for that reason we are seeking a different breeder with cats that are already registered and have papers on collection.

I hope that clears things up... but please - if there's anything else you want to know/comment on please ask me first.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Your assumptions are a bit off mark!
> The kitten was registered with TICA.


Fair enough. Your posts had mentioned GCCF so it wasn't totally unreasonable go in that direction as it's the main registration body for the UK.



> Christ you guys seem cranky.


Don't know why you think so. I was answering the post of a fellow breeder who will know exactly what I mean.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

havoc said:


> Fair enough. Your posts had mentioned GCCF so it wasn't totally unreasonable go in that direction as it's the main registration body for the UK.


My first post was regarding an entirely different Kitten and my response was regarding why we did not go back to breeder 1. She, although supposedly a good breeder has done nothing but ignore us since we asked for the papers.

I also had to edit my post as I do not know if she was registered, only that I was told she would be.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

The only way to be absolutely certain is by walking away with the kitten's registration document at the time you collect him/her. As already has been mentioned, breeders can withhold documentation (so long as in writing, agreed between both parties) until proof of neutering is supplied; although the latter still leaves the door open for the breeder not to bother registering.

Many breeders will often not have kittens' registration documents available at the point where you collect the kitten simply because they've either chosen to not register the kittens until later on or were a bit late registering a litter and documentation wasn't received in time.

It would be wisest to inform the breeder of your choice that you won't be taking the kitten home until the registration document is available; they can then either agree to that (and make sure the kitten is registered in plenty of time).... or not.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> breeders can withhold documentation (so long as in writing, agreed between both parties) *until proof of neutering is supplied*


Er, the breeder can withhold registration documents full stop as long as both parties agree it.



> 10b. If, at time of sale, the cat or kitten is registered the seller shall provide the purchaser with a transfer form, duly completed and signed by the seller,unless it is jointly agreed in writing by both parties at the time of sale not to do so.


Some breeders may make it a condition that the transfer document will not be handed over until they've seen proof of neutering but that condition is a personal thing and nothing to do with GCCF rules.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I know, Havoc, I was just trying to cover the main, basic reason why breeders might not supply the reg document at the time of sale  

As a kind of aside, I'm sure we're seeing an increase of otherwise "good" breeders who simply aren't bothering to register (or provide mating certs, etc). Since being able to see, for myself, just how many of my new owners actually DO transfer their kittens, I begrudge more and more spending money on registrations. And if my vet would early neuter, I don't think I would bother at all unless a pet owner specifically wanted the kitten registered.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> As a kind of aside, I'm sure we're seeing an increase of otherwise "good" breeders who simply aren't bothering to register (or provide mating certs, etc


I'd far rather put the registration fee towards neutering. Like you, I knew few owners bothered with the transfer but just how few is enlightening. I know of one perfectly good breeder who now declares their litters and hands the new owners a copy of the GCCF registration summary card along with all other relevant paperwork.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Just thinking that we are always telling people that the registration is the proof the pedigree is worth the paper it's printed on...


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

OrientalSlave said:


> Just thinking that we are always telling people that the registration is the proof the pedigree is worth the paper it's printed on...


I was very late this year with registering two litters for a specific reason. The more cranky I became about the on-line registration system not working properly (glitches in the system I was told) the more intent I was on waiting for GCCF to sort it instead of resorting to the 'usual' method. Anyway... it took weeks and weeks after the kittens had left. Not one new owner was the least bit bothered; several said not to bother AT all (I did, of course). So I have this notion that a lot of prospective owners DO search out breeders who say they register kittens, etc, but once they've had their kitten for a number of weeks and everything's hunky-dory, they're not so bothered!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Just thinking that we are always telling people that the registration is the proof the pedigree is worth the paper it's printed on...


I know what you're saying but it isn't as if there's no GCCF document with a declared litter. The buyer can have a copy of the record card which is in reality no different a proof than an individual transfer document.

If buyers really cared they'd want to see the registration documentation for the parents when they book their kitten. I always have it ready to show visitors - only been asked for it once in over 20 years.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

havoc said:


> I always have it ready to show visitors - only been asked for it once in over 20 years.


That's once more than me.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> <snip>
> If buyers really cared they'd want to see the registration documentation for the parents when they book their kitten. I always have it ready to show visitors - only been asked for it once in over 20 years.


I don't have my own stud so I couldn't show them the stud's registration. Guess I could show the certificate of mating.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

TigerLileh said:


> Hi guys! thanks for the help. We called GCCF and they told is the cat in question was registered. Would it be OK for me to still email you Taylor? We're looking for another kitten and you've been a massive help to me on this forum and the Bengal one so I'd respect your opinion on certain breeders! I'm based in London, so London is where I will be getting the kitten from eventually.
> 
> Thanks for all the responses guys!





TigerLileh said:


> The breeder we got Lily from has beautiful cats but I want a brown rosetted not a lynx point (is that right?) she does not breed the colour I am lusting after. She also did not get back to us with our pedigree papers and cut all communication instead of telling us she was busy or was having issues. It kind of rubbed us the wrong way as we paid a huge amount and have no pedigree certificate to show for it. We're being much more careful this time and would prefer a breeder who is able to communicate openly.


Of course you can!! I know who you are now! You are on bengalcat forums? I replied to you on there, you can message me on there if you like, it maybe quicker? 

I read about it all on there, I understand and can refer you to good breeders! 

R.E. registration, I neuter before they leave me, but I still register the kittens as I feel that is my job and to prove what the kitten is, I spoke to another breeder and I said about maybe just declaring (I had only just learnt about it lol!) and she said that they could easily just sign up as on active and breed from a different cat with your name!! That put me right off so Ill just keep registering them lol!! 

Edit: Although I have only ever had about 4 owners put the kittens into their name and that was because they were interested in showing and 2 of those when to the same lady on here lol


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> Of course you can!! I know who you are now! You are on bengalcat forums? I replied to you on there, you can message me on there if you like, it maybe quicker?
> 
> I read about it all on there, I understand and can refer you to good breeders!
> 
> ...


Was just thinking though that if kittens were microchipped then they couldnt get around that..but what buyer carries a scanner with them to check the hip number against the cat.

When i register my kittens i also log their chip number into their registration paperwork,vacs card and pedigree,so push come to shove anyone trying to be dodgy and breed from a cat with another cats paperwork could potentially get outed.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> When i register my kittens i also log their chip number into their registration paperwork,vacs card and pedigree,so push come to shove anyone trying to be dodgy and breed from a cat with another cats paperwork could potentially get outed.


I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it usually happens within a breeder's household or between a couple of breeder friends. Frankly it takes a breeder to think of it. Those people looking to buy a kitten to breed from without the breeder's consent don't give two hoots about active status as they don't intend to work within the cat fancy anyway.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I still register the kittens as I feel that is my job *and to prove what the kitten is*


Are you suggesting the record card is a work of fiction? It may be of course if the breeder hasn't been honest but then the individual registrations would be too.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it usually happens within a breeder's household or between a couple of breeder friends. Frankly it takes a breeder to think of it. Those people looking to buy a kitten to breed from without the breeder's consent don't give two hoots about active status as they don't intend to work within the cat fancy anyway.


Yeah i see exactly what your saying..wonder how much of that goes on.

Its true a byb wont care about docs etc they just want to get £200 for an 8 week old kitten typically.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

havoc said:


> Are you suggesting the record card is a work of fiction? It may be of course if the breeder hasn't been honest but then the individual registrations would be too.


I just mean that I like to give the cards out as proof of what breed they are , to prove they are pedigree, Im not sure about the breeder of the OP but they wrote more about the situation on the other forum!

But true, I guess they could just buy cheap kittens elsewhere and breed them


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> I just mean that I like to give the cards out as proof of what breed they are , to prove they are pedigree,


Makes no difference to the mass BYBs - who are intent on selling unreg kittens/puppies with no paperwork but insisting they are of a certain breed. Until Trading Standards get a grip on it, nothing will change.

It can only be proven to be pure-bred, or "any" breed, with a registration certificate - as confirmation by the reg body that both parents were the of breed in question and the breeder has the right to register them as that breed. Anything else couldn't really be proven, although a declaration is halfway there.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

When all's said and done the registration document is only the details given by the breeder printed up on an official looking piece of cardboard. It isn't proof of anything.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

havoc said:


> When all's said and done the registration document is only the details given by the breeder printed up on an official looking piece of cardboard. It isn't proof of anything.


The proper registration cert is issued ONLY by the registering body - TICA, GCCF, whatever. They are harder to fake than pedigrees.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It's only issued at the behest of the breeder and contains information given by the breeder. If the breeder gives wrong information then that's what the registration document will have on it. There's no way of verifying most of the content.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> R.E. registration, I neuter before they leave me, but I still register the kittens as I feel that is my job and to prove what the kitten is


Over here papers are the pedigree, sent out in the new owners name directly from the governing body. I would never send a pet off not neutered, and feel that pedigree kittens should come with paperwork. 
Ours are also registered as entire, show neuter or pet only, with pets not allowed to be shown at all.



Taylorbaby said:


> I spoke to another breeder and I said about maybe just declaring (I had only just learnt about it lol!) and she said that they could easily just sign up as on active and breed from a different cat with your name!!


There are plenty of "registered byb's" and make no mistake, they quickly learn to talk the talk and get what they want. Some actually do care about lines and want quality.
Even with a microchip number on the pedigree, does the governing body take the paperwork in with the cat and scan to check? Of course not, you could just write that chip number on, false or not. 
Pedigrees and registrations are only as honest as the person filling them in.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> There are plenty of "registered byb's" and make no mistake, they quickly learn to talk the talk and get what they want.


Absolutely. Just because someone has £75 to spend on a prefix it doesn't automatically make them a good breeder or an honest person. There are some lovely breeders who haven't purchased a prefix and some real rogues who have. There are people raising kittens with the best of everything whilst only declaring litters and those who register every kitten but cut corners. Choosing to declare a litter can be the cost of entering an extra show while not compromising standards in any way. There are all sorts of completely non sinister reasons for breeders to make that choice.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

The breeder I got Lily from is DEFINITELY not a backyard breeder. I am positive she is a well respected breeder. Her dam and sires were registered with decent lineage and she's quite well known in London. Other breeders I have spoken to about her kittens in particular (I'm often asked where Lily was purchased) have all spoken fondly of her both as a breeder and a show competitor. We did our research before going ahead with the sale, I just wish this was foreseeable as although we don't want to show Lily, it would be nice to get what we paid for.

Regardless, I wouldn't change the kitty for the world and I'm very happy with the quality and temperament of her. 

For the cat this thread was made for - she is fully registered and we managed to find that information by emailing GCCF and TICA who responded within a few days. We're due to go and visit her on Saturday so hopefully I will have that companion for Lily in the next couple of weeks (WITH PAPERS!)

Big thank you to everyone who gave me advice. I think the registration certificate for Lily is not going to happen. We've still not heard anything back from her and it has been 2 months since we first requested and a week since the last message. I will be messaging you Taylor! Thank you for the advice and the time it's taken you to respond (and will further take you) I very much appreciate all the educated insight into breeding and registrations and such!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

TigerLileh said:


> The breeder I got Lily from is DEFINITELY not a backyard breeder. I am positive she is a well respected breeder. Her dam and sires were registered with decent lineage and she's quite well known in London. Other breeders I have spoken to about her kittens in particular (I'm often asked where Lily was purchased) have all spoken fondly of her both as a breeder and a show competitor. We did our research before going ahead with the sale, I just wish this was foreseeable as although we don't want to show Lily, it would be nice to get what we paid for.
> 
> Regardless, I wouldn't change the kitty for the world and I'm very happy with the quality and temperament of her.
> 
> ...



Do you know you can put in a complaint to the GCCF to get your registration papers,it costs £15 and the GCCF will get it sorted for you,the breeder has 2 years to register a litter in and give you the registrations i believe.

I had this problem once and Gccf sorted it for me.Give them a call.

ETA i see its tica the breeder registers with im guessing they will have a similar procedure.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> [/B]
> Do you know you can put in a complaint to the GCCF to get your registration papers,it costs £15 and the GCCF will get it sorted for you,the breeder has 2 years to register a litter in and give you the registrations i believe.
> 
> I had this problem once and Gccf sorted it for me.Give them a call.
> ...


Hi - I was aware due to seeing someone make a thread on a forum about having to do it.

I'm thinking that's the best route. I don't want to get her in any trouble but I feel she is leaving us little choice but to go directly to the registration authority and ask them for help/for the documents ourselves.

Thank you for the help. IF/when this gets sorted I shall be sure to update so anyone else in my situation has the chance to see the outcome.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Email her. Tell her what you will do unless she produces the registration papers within (say) 2 weeks. It's better for her (in my view) than actually having to take it to the GCCF.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Do you know you can put in a complaint to the GCCF to get your registration papers,it costs £15 and the GCCF will get it sorted for you


Unless the OP signed anything which may have contained a clause about the breeder keeping registration documents. One small sentence in a kitten contract/sales agreement could easily be missed.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Would have thought the breeder should have pointed it out the first time the OP asked about their papers.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Would have thought the breeder should have pointed it out the first time the OP asked about their papers.


I posted as general info really as the OP has already stated the kitten they don't have papers for was meant to be registered with TICA. For those who are dealing with GCCF registrations it's a point worth checking before throwing £15 at them.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Its really annoying having to pay the gccf the £15 for papers you should be getting i was quite annoyed at having to pay it,i felt it should have been the breeder having to pay it as it was him causing the problem by not sending me paperwork.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Its really annoying having to pay the gccf the £15 for papers you should be getting


Must admit I thought the original idea behind a fee for putting in a complaint was for it to be refunded if the complaint was upheld. It is quite a recent introduction and I thought it was to deter frivolous or malicious complaints. Very sad if it's been turned into nothing more than revenue generation.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> Must admit I thought the original idea behind a fee for putting in a complaint was for it to be refunded if the complaint was upheld. It is quite a recent introduction and I thought it was to deter frivolous or malicious complaints. Very sad if it's been turned into nothing more than revenue generation.


Hmm yeah agree.

Well i didnt get any money back but got my papers sorted.Would have been nice if the 'breeder' was made to refund me.

He for some reason sent me a copy of his reply to the gccf,in it he stated he wanted to register 10x litters ,so i wonder how many other people had the same prob as me.

Was glad to see he gave up breeding,but recently hes back on the scene.


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## bergkamp11 (Jan 10, 2012)

havoc said:


> It's only issued at the behest of the breeder and contains information given by the breeder. If the breeder gives wrong information then that's what the registration document will have on it. There's no way of verifying most of the content.


I have been reading through this post and all the comments. Yes I fully agree with this and I have seen it first hand. But even the GCCF don't fully look into it. I know of a breeder that has bought a cat cheap and registered it as their own breeding. if you googled them they would come up top in their area and have a wewbsite that a lot of people on here may have used.So a registration and pedigree and all the health test claims will never mean anything to me. I would want to know everything about the breeder and any complaints that they have had in the past before I believed what the pedigree truly was.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

> I would want to know everything about the breeder and any complaints that they have had in the past before I believed what the pedigree truly was.


There are plenty of cases where the boot is on the other foot - breeders are being complained about, slandered and libelled by unrealistic and sometimes scamming purchasers, and of course there are the people trying to buy a kitten to use for BYB breeding...


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Although the vast majority of owners don't transfer the registrations over to themselves, most do ask to see the pedigree of the kitten and/or parents. I have had several specifically ask to view the pedigrees and one chap asked me if my cats were 'thoroughbred' of course meaning purebred.

When I bought my first pet Persian, the breeder was rather startled when I insisted that she was registered. The breeder couldn't understand why I wanted a pet cat registered but I simply said "I am paying hundreds of pounds for this cat, I want the paperwork to prove it is a pedigree animal". She took my point and registered the kitten 

Personally I see it as a matter of pride that I register all my kittens regardless of whether they are going as pets or show/breeding cats. I love to think up the names and receive the documentation from the GCCF 

I can see no good reason to withhold paperwork from new owners 'until the cat is neutered'. If they are going to breed from the cat they will do so regardless of having the paperwork. It will say Non-Active on it for a start so they can't use it at stud, but they will more likely be using another unregistered or pet-registered unneutered cat.


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## bergkamp11 (Jan 10, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> There are plenty of cases where the boot is on the other foot - breeders are being complained about, slandered and libelled by unrealistic and sometimes scamming purchasers, and of course there are the people trying to buy a kitten to use for BYB breeding...


Yes I agree with you there. What I was trying to say is even a GCCF registration does not guarantee the parentage.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Could anyone clarify what I would have to do in regards to contacting TICA? I can't find a means of complaint and request for registration. I have all documents ready, including the kitten contract.

"as soon as is feasible" will this count against us even though we have messages stating it will be when all kittens sold?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

You might want to blank a word at the top of that contract.

Sorry, I don't know very much about TICA at all but lots of others here are familiar with the organisation and I'm sure will be able to tell you.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

you certainly should have got your registration paperwork from reading the contract.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> You might want to blank a word at the top of that contract.
> 
> Sorry, I don't know very much about TICA at all but lots of others here are familiar with the organisation and I'm sure will be able to tell you.


Haha crap! thank you. I removed it. what an idiot I am.

BSH: Thanks. I'll be messaging TICA asap.

Revised document:


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> "as soon as is feasible" will this count against us


It's difficult to say as we don't know if TICA have any rules about giving paperwork to buyers. There may not be any. You can't take what you've been told on here about the GCCF rules and assume they apply in TICA.



> Could anyone clarify what I would have to do in regards to contacting TICA? I can't find a means of complaint and request for registration.


I'm not sure they have such a thing. As far as I'm aware they stick to registrations and running shows and don't involve themselves with breeders to the same extent as the GCCF.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

This is the TICA code of ethics I can find. Note it is a voluntary EXTRA thing breeders can sign up to if they wish.

THE INTERNATIONAL CAT ASSOCIATION, INC. VOLUNTARY CODE OF ETHICS 
P: 956.428.8046 P.O. BOX 2684, HARLINGEN TX 78551 [email protected] F: 956.428.8047 Welcome to TICA - The International Cat Association, TICA cats, TICA pedigreed cats, pedigreed cats, pedigreed cats registry, household pet cat registry, domestic cat registry, Savannah cat, Bengal cat, Persian cat, Maine Coon cat REVISED: 8/4/2009 
I am a member in good standing of The International Cat Association (TICA) and have a TICA registered cattery. I will breed discriminately, and only if I can find appropriate homes for my kittens. I will place kittens only in homes that I believe will provide a life-long commitment of love, appreciation, and responsible care. 
Any kitten or cat sold as a pet/companion will be sold under the following conditions:  I will guarantee that the kitten/cat is in good health at the time of sale.  I will urge the purchaser to have the kitten/cat examined by the purchasers own veterinarian within a few days of purchase to confirm its good health.  I will require that the kitten be spayed or neutered NO LATER THAN 12 months of age and not be allowed to produce any offspring.  I will explain to the purchaser the dangers of an outdoor environment.  I will provide a written sales agreement that describes all the terms of the sale. I will abide by my own sales agreement.  I will provide the TICA registration application form and/or pedigree for the kitten/cat ONLY after I have received written evidence from a licensed veterinarian that the kitten/cat has been altered.  I will encourage the purchaser to contact me if the purchaser has any questions and I will respond in a timely manner.  I will not release a kitten until it has been inoculated at least twice against the following: Panleukopenia, Feline Rhinotracheitis, and Calicivirus. I also may choose to give other vaccinations. 
I have read and agree to abide by the above Voluntary Code of Ethics.


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

havoc said:


> It's difficult to say as we don't know if TICA have any rules about giving paperwork to buyers. There may not be any. You can't take what you've been told on here about the GCCF rules and assume they apply in TICA.
> 
> I'm not sure they have such a thing. As far as I'm aware they stick to registrations and running shows and don't involve themselves with breeders to the same extent as the GCCF.


From what I've been told you're right. I'm midway through sending all my documentation to TICA now. I've spoken to them already and they will help if they can. Thank you all for taking the time to help me


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## TigerLileh (Aug 27, 2013)

Just wanted to update everyone who helped me and those members who search google for any advice and stumble upon this thread.

I took the complaint to TICA (thank you Havoc) who told me to contact my TICA regional director (Phil). The director emailed me back within about 4 hours stating he had contacted the breeder. He also informed me of the correct complaints procedure that I would need to follow should she refuse to give me the papers. Within 4 ish hours of that email (I believe) I was forwarded an email sent by the breeder to the TICA gentleman stating she had contacted us and made clear her position. Obviously this was not the truth as why would we go as far as contacting TICA if she had contacted us? Anyway, she told him she was registering the kittens and had been busy. She updated her website but could not update us? I'm reluctant to take that but OKAY, it's irrelevant now.

What happened then is I got an email form TICA stating registration had been done and papers would be with me soon. She also replied to my partner informing him the papers would be done soon. The email she replied to was sent some time ago and was the only one we have had a reply to during this whole ordeal (four months total).

I'm glad this was rectified and I thank you all for your help. I just wish she could have she was preoccupied to prevent me having to go to TICA with everything. The last thing I wanted was to cause this lady any kind of stress or damage her reputation. I hope most breeders respond to queries and questions and our situation was a unique one. 

We also purchased the cat I made this post for and she came with full papers. It's unlikely we'll be making the mistake of holding off for papers twice.

Again a big thank you.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Oh great news 

I also don't understand about the preoccupation, but if all the other kittens buyers didn't want them registered, she might have felt it just wasn't important.


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