# 'Choking' rat



## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

One of my rats seems to choke now and again. He will suddenly start looking like he is gasping, will stand hunched up, will try coughing (looks like that's what's happening anyway), twitch/ jerk a little, almost like he was choking on food and trying to sort it. There may be a bit of sneezing in there as well during this episode. It does seem to happen more after food, what is going on?? I am completely panicking about him. He will do it for ten minutes, maybe more, then will stop and go back to normal. HELP!! :sad:


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## Eriya (May 10, 2012)

I've actually noticed two of mine do something similar and was going to ask about it too. Mine also look like they're coughing - twitching and jerking. I've not noticed them to sneeze at that time though and never even associated it with choking. I've also not really seen an association with eating and this happening though. Would love some advice too!


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

Hey sorry to hear about your boy. Choking is normally more traumatic for us than them!

Is it when he is eating dry food or is it sloppier foods that do this? 

If its dry food he may have something wrong with his mouth/throat for it to be happening so often.

I had a girl who had a few episodes where it looked like she was choking. However, I actually believe she had an allergy to an element of her mix. During one of her episodes she displayed signs of choking, I tried to dislodge it but couldn't see anything inside her mouth. She died that night but what I did notice was her tongue was swollen which is why I believe it was an allergy. I'm not telling this to scare you but just to make you aware.

If he has problems clearing the blockage you can try holding him with his head in the palm of your hand, body along your arm and swing him downwards. It sounds cruel but can help loosen the object enough that they can spit it out or swallow it.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I notice my rats do this if they ever have toast which is why I never give them it anymore as it scares the life out of me when it does happen. It's usually accompanied with salvating a lot. I used to do the downward thrust with my hand supporting there head but I find its just best to leave them to sort it them selves as they can dislodge it.
If however it carries on for a day then I'd be taking them to the vets.

Also just so you know rats can't be sick or burp. So never give fizzy drinks not that you would of course.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

It's happened a couple of times after being given peas (which were cooked and wet) and a couple of other times just randomly. His tongue is fine as he can yawn afterwards and his tongue looks normal. He also seems to get over it faster if I leave him to it. He hasn't changed his food and he wasn't doing this at first. Perhaps I should lay off the cooked food and see if he stops? He is greedy and I wonder if he is eating too fast and not chewing enough or something. Initially I think I mistook all of this for sneezing and possibly having an URI which his brother has. They have both been put on Baytril after I mentioned to vet that he seemed to sneeze once or twice as well. I did not know having rats would be this stressful!! Poor babies!


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

X-post with you Blade 

No I wouldn't give them fizzy things don't worry!! If yours did it after a particular food then I will deffo lay off the peas. He has also done it after I have given him yoghurt drops come to think of it. Perhaps he really isn't eating properly when he is being hand fed? Too excited maybe?


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

If he's greedy then I reckon he's rushing his food too quickly.

Also if there only sneezing occasionally I don't think I would've put them on antibiotics. I only put them on them if they make funny noises.
Giving them antibiotics when not neccessary will make them immune to the antibiotic.
Also just so your aware a 14 day course of AB's or a month maybe needed.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

It's not really him that is sneezing that much. It's his brother, though I think I am seeing an improvement. Will keep an eye on him and go back to vets if he hasn't significantly improved. It is still a new place for them though and this all could be to do with stress! The thing is this is the first time I have had rats (only gerbils before) and I am not entirely sure all the noises that are normal and all the noises that aren't. I don't want to have a sick rat and not know about it!


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

Sneezing in a new environment is common. Sneezing lots or wheezing, hooting, noisy breathing is not normal and is usually indicative of respiratory issues.

Unfortunately vets rarely dose the correct amount of abs. I use rat guides method of 0.1ml per 100g of rat if theyve been given baytril. So a 300g rat should be on 0.3ml split into 2 doses for 10-14 days at the minimum.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Argh he has done it quite a few times today. Freaking out here


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

What kind of bedding do you use?

Sneezing can have a number of causes. Does he have excess porphyrin (red snuff) around his nose or eyes? Is he fine otherwise?

How much is a few times? If your really worried take him to the vet. If your other boy is on abs it may be worth it to treat them both if they're displaying the same symptoms.

Resp illnesses are really common in rats. All pet rats are born with myco, which tends to flare up in times of stress (moving, illness) so you might have repeat occurrences. At one point all 13 of mine were on abs just after I'd moved house!


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Oh don't say that!! I am moving at start of March! 

No they are not showing the same symptoms. One boy is just sneezing on occassion (this has lessened now), this one looks like he has choking fits and is struggling through those times. 

They are on Ecobed.

Had them at vets on Fri, gonna have to take them back I think


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Are they actually making funny pigeon type nasal noises?

How long have you had them for?


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Pigeon type?? Hmm, not sure that's what it sounds like... there is no pigeon cooing or anything :confused1: Not really sure what you mean by that. Hulk is just out right sneezy. No other noises, and like I say, I think that is settling a great deal. Spidey makes no noises at all except for when he goes into one of these fits. When he isn't haven't one he is happy and inquisitive! :

Had them for a week.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> Pigeon type?? Hmm, not sure that's what it sounds like... there is no pigeon cooing or anything :confused1: Not really sure what you mean by that. Hulk is just out right sneezy. No other noises, and like I say, I think that is settling a great deal. Spidey makes no noises at all except for when he goes into one of these fits. When he isn't haven't one he is happy and inquisitive! :
> 
> Had them for a week.


Have a listen to the video in this thread http://www.petforums.co.uk/rodents/291702-i-would-like-introduce-5.html post 41.
I doubt if he will be as bad as this but this is the pigeon like noise.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

It is slightly like that during one of his fits, but not constantly like in the vid.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> It is slightly like that during one of his fits, but not constantly like in the vid.


That would lead me to believe he has the start of a resp infection. It might be worth having a proper listen to his chest.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

And this very second he starts doing it whilst not having a choking fit.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

B3rnie said:


> That would lead me to believe he has the start of a resp infection. It might be worth having a proper listen to his chest.


He went to vet too and I was told to put him on Baytril as well cos I thought he sneezed a couple of times the other day. Both chests are clear apparently. It's not these noises that worry me because they are getting treatment for a URI, it's the choking like fits. Scared me half to death!


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> He went to vet too and I was told to put him on Baytril as well cos I thought he sneezed a couple of times the other day. Both chests are clear apparently. It's not these noises that worry me because they are getting treatment for a URI, it's the choking like fits. Scared me half to death!


Are they both on baytril at the moment? What's the dosage?


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

0.05mls each Both still small babies really


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

They are getting it two ways, in water (I am keeping an eye on how much is drank and what that means is consumed) and on a treat. Hulk's gets tiny tiny tiny amounts at a time in a pea, and Spidey gets his in yoghurt. Hulk wont take anything else.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> 0.05mls each Both still small babies really


Once or twice a day? What do they weigh?

Sorry for all the questions


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

No no, all the help I can get!! Once a day. Vet said to put it in water. I must admit to taking advice from here and using the yoghurt trick. She GUESSED!! they weighed 20 grams each... I honestly would have estimated more like 50g. Having said that, they suddenly shot up in size (up, around, forward...) in the last couple of days! Like children with nothing then a sudden growth spurt!


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

I have to admit when I took them to the vets before this growth spurt they literally felt like nothing to hold. How can they have shot up so much in two days?!


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> No no, all the help I can get!! Once a day. Vet said to put it in water. I must admit to taking advice from here and using the yoghurt trick. She GUESSED!! they weighed 20 grams each... I honestly would have estimated more like 50g. Having said that, they suddenly shot up in size (up, around, forward...) in the last couple of days! Like children with nothing then a sudden growth spurt!


Ok is there anyway you can see another vet? The fact she prescribed meds without weighing them does not fill me with hope :confused1:


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

There may be another vet in working on another day but no, there is no way to get to an other actual vet practice. PLUS, she only told me to use it over the weekend..... as in.... two days....

She gave them an injection each and then said now give them 0.05mls each on Sat and Sun... 

She gave me enough for over a week though.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

P.S Thanks Bernie, I appreciate you taking time to help!!


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> There may be another vet in working on another day but no, there is no way to get to an other actual vet practice. PLUS, she only told me to use it over the weekend..... as in.... two days....
> 
> She gave them an injection each and then said now give them 0.05mls each on Sat and Sun...
> 
> She gave me enough for over a week though.


Hang on, what did she inject them with?


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

I don't know!!! That could be my fault though. I had my young son in with me (lesson learned!!) and he was being a real..... handful... to put it nicely... and if she had said, I missed it, and I was so frazzled with him and so relieved she was telling me it wasn't serious that I just didn't think to ask!


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

Can you phone up and ask? They should have written down all the meds in their computer system.

If she injected water then that's fine, but if she injected baytril :scared:


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Why would she inject water? Sorry to be thick...


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> Why would she inject water? Sorry to be thick...


If she thought they might be dehydrated then giving sub-cut fluids helps to rehydrate.

I'm struggling to think what she would have injected them with tbh. If she injected with baytril that really isn't good, I would phone the vets to find out for certain as soon as they are open.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Vets should never inject baytril it causes baytril burns on there skin!
And putting it in water is no good as there not getting the right daily dosage. It needs to be given directly into there mouths or mixed with yoghurt,jam,choc drink off a tea spoon.
Are the rats under 12 weeks? If so they should not be given baytril as it stunts there growth.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Seriously?!?! Yes they are both under 12 weeks!! They are only babies! Actually, she asked 'how old are they' I said 9 weeks, she said, so about three months then. I was frazzled and didn't think to correct her.  FFS, my poor babies!! They have grown in the last couple of days though, and significantly. Is it a long term stunting??


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> Seriously?!?! Yes they are both under 12 weeks!! They are only babies! Actually, she asked 'how old are they' I said 9 weeks, she said, so about three months then. I was frazzled and didn't think to correct her.  FFS, my poor babies!! They have grown in the last couple of days though, and significantly. Is it a long term stunting??


Oh dear I missed their ages


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

B3rnie said:


> If she thought they might be dehydrated then giving sub-cut fluids helps to rehydrate.
> 
> I'm struggling to think what she would have injected them with tbh. If she injected with baytril that really isn't good, I would phone the vets to find out for certain as soon as they are open.


: She asked if they were drinking normally. I told her they were and how much they are drinking (about 30 mls a day)

Oh I am totally stressed out about them now


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Baytril tastes horrid so if its been in there water they've prob not drank much.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

blade100 said:


> Baytril tastes horrid so if its been in there water they've prob not drank much.


Between them they have drank 25 mls in 22 hours with it in.

Actually that is a question, any idea how much they are meant to drink? This is roughly what they have been drinking the whole time I have had them. I have just assumed they will drink the amount they want.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Each rats different. 
I'm not sure to be honest.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

My lot drink a bunny bottle (600ml?) Between them a day.

If the vet injected baytril, look out for a scab forming on their backs. I think its usually black. If you can get a hold of hibiscrub a dilute soloution of that can be used to clean it.

I think septrin can be used on little ones but not completely sure. I'd say your best bet is to stop the meds and change to a more rat savvy vet. I'd probably ask for money back too if they develop baytril burns.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> My lot drink a bunny bottle (600ml?) Between them a day.
> 
> If the vet injected baytril, look out for a scab forming on their backs. I think its usually black. If you can get a hold of hibiscrub a dilute soloution of that can be used to clean it.
> 
> I think septrin can be used on little ones but not completely sure. I'd say your best bet is to stop the meds and change to a more rat savvy vet. I'd probably ask for money back too if they develop baytril burns.


So that would work out very roughly at 45 mls a day each and they are adults I assume?? So my guys roughly 15 mls a day can't be too far off?

Cost less than a fiver for everything so money isn't an issue. I can't swap vets. We have one practice here. I live in an awkward place!! I can't chose the actual vet either.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Also the sneezer (not the choker) seems to be better because the longer the day goes on, the more I think I haven't heard anything from him, and in general he seems more chilled.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

The injection was Baytril. No burns that I can see.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

How long ago was it? Did u say Friday? It mày start appearing soon as when they gave wally one it was a couple of days or so when it came out.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Yeah friday. I will keep an eye out but with Hulk it will be impossible to tell cos he is still very shy and skittish and his back is black! Spidey is patchy on his back with dark bits o again could be tricky to see but he is a lot more handleable especially in the last couple of days. No choking yet today <fingers crossed> and again Hulk hasn't made a peep so I am hoping that means he is now ok.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> The injection was Baytril. No burns that I can see.


Oh 

As Blade said you need to keep an eye out for any burns, they can take up to a week to appear so keep a very close eye..

Next I would phone your vets and request to see another vet within the practice (if there are no other vets in the area), you pay the bill so you have every right to request who you see.

Where abouts are you? Someone here might be able to point you to a better vet that you didn't know was there


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Deffo no other vets. Also there is only ever one vet on at a time. (it's a small place) so I can't be that picky either!


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2013)

halfeatenapple said:


> Deffo no other vets. Also there is only ever one vet on at a time. (it's a small place) so I can't be that picky either!


That is where you are wrong hun, you pay the bill  There is one vet I refuse to see in my vets practice so they work around me 
If they refuse then you have grounds for a formal complaint.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Oh bloody hell, I have really bad social phobias and anxieties, and will struggle like mad to ask for another vet (which means I will have to wait for whatever day a diff vet is on)


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