# dog trainer in scotland



## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

anyone heard of this lady Home Dog Training in Glasgow Ayr, Kilmarnock & Irvine

I really need some help with my pup, and all the ebooks and videos are not working, any idea about the cost for getting someone like this to help??


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Not familiar with Bark busters I think it may be a franchise.

Association of pet dog trainers though, do have to meet a certain criteria and have a code of ethics and only use kind effective fair reward based training. To find a member near you for either classes or one to one.
Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK E mail [email protected] Telephone 01285 810811


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Not familiar with Bark busters I think it may be a franchise.
> 
> Association of pet dog trainers though, do have to meet a certain criteria and have a code of ethics and only use kind effective fair reward based training. To find a member near you for either classes or one to one.
> Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK E mail [email protected] Telephone 01285 810811


thanks I'll check that out


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

If you want a behaviourist then CAPBT COAPE Association of pet behaviourists and trainers also have a code of ethics and only use kind reward based methods. If it is a behaviourist you want then
CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers should again help you find one in your area.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> If you want a behaviourist then CAPBT COAPE Association of pet behaviourists and trainers also have a code of ethics and only use kind reward based methods. If it is a behaviourist you want then
> CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers should again help you find one in your area.


thanks, i got to the same people with both your links, have sent an email, love my pup but causing me too much trouble , dog whisperer not helping:smilewinkgrin:


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

just a wee joke there !! not wanting to start a big debate !!

so my dog is 9 months, is that still puppy training or dog training??


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## Andromeda (Nov 21, 2010)

Adult training. Puppy training is usually up to 6 months - of course it depends on breed. Big dogs mature slower than small so better is to ask a trainer.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

redgaz26 said:


> just a wee joke there !! not wanting to start a big debate !!
> 
> so my dog is 9 months, is that still puppy training or dog training??


Ive found when I have taken mine, there tends to be a puppy socialisation and training basics for the really young, then an intermediate class, when the puppys are too large/ready to advance, at a guess you will probably be in an intermediate which is young dogs/those who have learned basics and ready to move to next level. A trainer once you have spoken to them will tell you what will be the best class anyway. Usually you can go along and observe a class before hand.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> Home Dog Training in Glasgow Ayr, Kilmarnock & Irvine
> 
> I really need some help with my pup, and all the ebooks and videos are not working,
> any idea about the cost for getting someone like this to help??


B-B is a franchise; they actively prefer 'dog-lovers' to dog-trainers as franchisees. 
U pay a whopping fee, attend a few weeks training, & set-up shop. It used to be 3-weeks; 
i'm not sure what it is now, as they have taken the details off their website. 

KikoPup's channel on U-tube is very safe, very humane, & very enlightening: 
kikopup's Channel - YouTube

her real-life name is Emily Larlham, & she's an excellent trainer. 

APDT-uk have trainers listed in: 
Scotland - 
Aberdeenshire
Angus 
Argyll and Bute
Ayrshire
Clackmannanshire
Clackmannanshire and Stirlingshire
Dumfries and Galloway
Edinburgh
Fife
Glasgow
Lanarkshire
Moray
Perth and Kinross
Renfrewshire
Scottish Borders
West Lothian 
on this page: Local Dog Trainers - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK

what specific problems are U coping with?

at 9-MO, has the dog been desexed? 
- the 9-MO to 10-MO testosterone spike exaggerates every male-pattern behavior; neutering can help 
prevent the young male dog learning things not easily unlearned. It also reduces *other dog's reactions* 
to him - which helps, too.  
- bitches who are desexed before their first-estrus have virtually no chance of mammary-cancer. :thumbup:

what breed? does the problem-behavior have a breed or type-specific component? 
chasing in herding dogs, barking in terrierrrists, nuisance-barking in GSDs, guarding in many breeds... ?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> ...love my pup but causing me too much trouble, *dog whisperer* not helping :smilewinkgrin:


i wouldn't expect it would. :smilewinkgrin:

confrontational, harsh, aversive or scary tactics [like flooding a fearful or reactive dog] often backfire. 
aversive tools only make our presence unwelcome, & the training process distasteful, by association.

if OTOH we make training AKA learning a happy, enjoyable part of life, both *we & the dog* will want more 
of it, not less - it's no longer a dreaded requirement, but a happily-anticipated part of the routine. When we do more, 
they learn more.  there's no limit to what we can teach our dogs, other than their anatomy & our imaginations.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

I have found an APDT trainer near me and left a voice mail. My dog is a staffy cross. Very friendly but uses his teeth to say hello. Jumps up at anyone who comes in the house, opens his mouth and his teeth sink into your hands. He's not trying to bite I don't think. He won't come in from the garden when told. If the front door is left open he's out like a shot and will not come back in when asked. I cannot let him off the lead or he won't come back. He is terrible in other people's houses. Gets way to excited. I have tried and tried but need some help. Apart from all that he's a lovely boy. !!!:smile5:


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

And he gets plenty of exercise. !! Morning noon and nite I walk him.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

redgaz26 said:


> I have found an APDT trainer near me and left a voice mail. My dog is a staffy cross. Very friendly but uses his teeth to say hello. Jumps up at anyone who comes in the house, opens his mouth and his teeth sink into your hands. He's not trying to bite I don't think. He won't come in from the garden when told. If the front door is left open he's out like a shot and will not come back in when asked. I cannot let him off the lead or he won't come back. He is terrible in other people's houses. Gets way to excited. I have tried and tried but need some help. Apart from all that he's a lovely boy. !!!:smile5:


Sometimes it just gets to a point, where you are at a loss to deal with the problem and run out of things to try. Dont know what level of experience you have? but even if you have owned dogs that are relatively easy then get a bit of a live wire, it can be a bit daunting. Im sure you are doing the best thing, you can have the situation assesed properly and be shown the best way to deal with it. Good luck and let us know how you get on.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Sometimes it just gets to a point, where you are at a loss to deal with the problem and run out of things to try. Dont know what level of experience you have? but even if you have owned dogs that are relatively easy then get a bit of a live wire, it can be a bit daunting. Im sure you are doing the best thing, you can have the situation assesed properly and be shown the best way to deal with it. Good luck and let us know how you get on.


I had my last dog for 12 years, another staffy cross, but he was the best dog ever! never had a problem with him!


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

I'm not sold on Bark Busters to be honest. I think they're a bit out-of-date in some respects.

I would recommend an APDT, COAPE or APBC trainer/behaviourist.

I would also recommend the book 'Control Unleashed' by Leslie McDevitt in teaching your dog how to calm and settle in exciting environments, using positive games and exercises.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

ok thanks, was going to buy a clicker on the web tonight or do you think i should wait and talk to this nice sounding lady i have left a voicemail with ?

and heres a few pics of my boy:smilewinkgrin: I do love him !!
his name is MAC

first photo upside down for some reason ???


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

ok first thing ive done is ordered this Clix Recall Longline 10m: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

a long lead, im nervous about letting him go himself now so this should help !!


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

so I spoke to the trainer this morning she was very nice, for a 2 to 3 hour private meet up at her place its £110 then if i continue its £30 an hour!!!!
with all the free videos and advice on the web would this be money well spent or a waste?/ any advice would be great


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

redgaz26 said:


> so I spoke to the trainer this morning she was very nice, for a 2 to 3 hour private meet up at her place its £110 then if i continue its £30 an hour!!!!
> with all the free videos and advice on the web would this be money well spent or a waste?/ any advice would be great


I used a behaviourist probably about 5 years ago and it was £120 then that was for 3 one hourly sessions about a week or 2 weeks apart. You had a session then practiced and carried out the things you had learnt/discussed, then went back for a sort of apprasal on progress and moved on to the next step if all had gone well. I would say if was worth it. Long story short, I had, had 4 previous dogs all rescue all some baggage but soon sorted myself. The 5th was a nightmare and his behaviour was nothing like I had before, Everyone told me it was dominance, instinct told me it wasnt, in the end I got a behaviourist and she said it was fear based aggression. The confidence and help she gave was without doubt worth the money. Hes 5 now and a great dog, although still not uncommon doesnt like thinder and fireworks and a few things and gets himself into a bit of a tizz at these but then nothing like his response was. If its a good behaviourist who you really gel with and can really get on with, then yes I would say its worth it. However in this climate it is a lot of money granted. You could ask if she does classes as well, and perhaps go and observe a class, or maybe even a course of classes would be a little less expensive. That may give you a better idea. The one I had did run training classes too, so there is a possibility yours may.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> I used a behaviourist probably about 5 years ago and it was £120 then that was for 3 one hourly sessions about a week or 2 weeks apart. You had a session then practiced and carried out the things you had learnt/discussed, then went back for a sort of apprasal on progress and moved on to the next step if all had gone well. I would say if was worth it. Long story short, I had, had 4 previous dogs all rescue all some baggage but soon sorted myself. The 5th was a nightmare and his behaviour was nothing like I had before, Everyone told me it was dominance, instinct told me it wasnt, in the end I got a behaviourist and she said it was fear based aggression. The confidence and help she gave was without doubt worth the money. Hes 5 now and a great dog, although still not uncommon doesnt like thinder and fireworks and a few things and gets himself into a bit of a tizz at these but then nothing like his response was. If its a good behaviourist who you really gel with and can really get on with, then yes I would say its worth it. However in this climate it is a lot of money granted. You could ask if she does classes as well, and perhaps go and observe a class, or maybe even a course of classes would be a little less expensive. That may give you a better idea. The one I had did run training classes too, so there is a possibility yours may.


I'll look into that, the other thing is that he's only 9 months, last week he was at the vet and she called him a baby,she said he's still very young give him a chance, so maybe I'm expecting too much, I think i will get that long lead and try and work with him myself using the info on youtube and this site etc, if im not getting anywhere I'' call her back.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> *emphasis added - *
> 
> ...he's *only* 9 months, last week he was at the vet & *she called him a baby*, she said *he's still very young,
> give him a chance*, so maybe I'm expecting too much...


the other way of looking at this is that he's the equivalent of a 16-YO boy - NOT a 9-YO child. 
he's post-puberty; he can be bred [altho i would not advise it!], puppy-rudeness from him toward another dog 
would be met with serious disapproval, if he were being shown in the USA he could already be an AKC-champ.

he's not an infant or a toddler or a young child; *he's post-puberty.* If he were human, he'd shave. :blink:

just when do U think U'll start expecting *appropriate* teenage behavior? if he were human, 
he could have a job; he'd be deciding his career-choice. I choose among 9-to-12-MO shelter dogs for JOBS: 
assistance dogs for disabled persons, sports-candidates, therapy-pets, & so on. I TELL PEOPLE to choose 
from dogs in that age range *because they are ready for their first jobs.* what's his job? 
being a delinquent, :lol: - making U crazy?

i'm sure it's obvious that i disagree; i'd get cracking on B-Mod ASAP. 
if he's not desexed, i'd also consider that - it helps reduce both aggro & distractibility.

with the help of a good one-to-one consult, U could make more progress in one week than U have solo 
in the past 5-months; knowledge is power. Staggering along 'trying' on Ur own only means more time lost, 
& more *practice of undesirable behavior* continues in the meantime.

he's been doing whatever he's been doing for *over half his lifetime* - & the longer he keeps doing it, 
the more-deeply it becomes habit: fluent, fast, automatic, unconscious, unthinking, instantaneous.

i'd check the trainer's classes if any, meet her, see how we got on, & invest in my dog. 
it would save oodles of time to have a helpful, experienced, reward-based pro to show U coping skills 
& some B-Mod to approach the behavior U want; he'd no longer be rehearsing what U *don't* want. 

there's a training axiom: _'Practice makes permanent.'_ 
whatever U want the dog, horse, bird, student, ___ , to do - have them practice it. 
what's he practicing?


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey thanks for your reply. I won't disagree with anything you said, what I will say is that I have not got a pocket full of endless cash to spend on dog training, if I did I'd be there today. What I do have is loads of love, paitence and determination to make my dog become what I want. Which is fun loving and respectful to me and my family and friends. I will use the training videos I've seen from zac george and others , long lead is on it's way, and I will also use this great forum. !!!!
If I'm not getting anywhere fast in a few weeks I shall call the trainer. !!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> ...I have not got a pocket full of endless cash to spend on dog training, if I did I'd be there today.


very, very few people, do, Gaz - in the USA, *1% of the popn owns 20% of the wealth. 
90% of the popn shares FIFTEEN PerCent of the nation's wealth.* we have an obscene wealth-gap, 
bigger than at any time in our country's history, including the Colonial era.

think about that: the gap today between the top-5% and the 90% who don't own massive wealth, 
is *bigger* than the 1750 gap between a large land-holder with indentured servants, staff, 
& a coach-&-four, versus his kitchen-boy - who owned his shoes & clothes and little else.


redgaz26 said:


> What I do have is loads of love, patience & determination to make my dog become what I want.
> ...fun loving & respectful to me and my family and friends. I will use the training videos I've seen
> from zac george and others , long lead is on it's way, and I will also use this great forum. !!!!
> If I'm not getting anywhere fast in a few weeks, I shall call the trainer.


may i also suggest on UTube
* KikoPup AKA Emily Larlham
* the Dog Giggler 
* SupernaturalBC 
* SuperBark1 [i think - IRL she's Sophia Yin, DVM] 
* Susan Garrett 
* Control Unleashed [Leslie McDevitt, i believe] 
* Click to Calm [Emma ___??_____ ]

all use humane, clear communication; no aversive tools or techniques; & are good instructors.

i'd also suggest buying or borrowing a book on B-Mod, either 
- _Click to Calm_, or 
- _Control Unleashed_

AND buy or borrow a book on dog body-language to accurately 'read' Ur dog: 
- Handelman, 2nd edition Amazon.com: Canine Behavior: A Photo Illustrated Handbook (9780976511823): Barbara Handelman, Monty Sloan, Lore I. Haug: Books is very good; 
if U buy it direct from Barb at *Woof & Word Press*, she'll autograph it on request.  tell her i sent ya, 
it's not worth a dime, but she'll get a chuckle from it.

all 3 can be bought new or used, or borrowed from the library - if need be thru interlibrary loan, 
if the local branch does not own a copy of one or the other. 


redgaz26 said:


> If I'm not getting anywhere fast in a few weeks, I shall call the trainer.


i sincerely hope U can do this on Ur own - but i must say i rather doubt it. 
i am NOT wishing that U don't succeed brilliantly; i am only speaking about what i've seen. :001_smile:

pet-owners struggle with many challenges that a pro can help them overcome quickly, 
like leash-handling skills, effective re-direction before the dog is fully engaged [timing], 
& other basic stuff that really makes ordinary training awkward, & make it pretty-hard work.

add in the challenges of B-Mod which means *deconstructing current behavior to build new habits, 
just like installing a state-of-the-art kitchen or bathroom in an already-built older home* - 
& it becomes way-more complicated than brand-new construction from the ground up, & demands 
far more knowledge & competency than just teaching. Teaching is relatively simple - but look 
at the number of posts that ask for help with *jumping-up* or _*house-training - *_ 
potty-training is really such an incredibly basic process, yet we have threads on it every week.

please do keep us posted? i wish U every success, i hope the dog is clairvoyant & a genius, 
i hope U are a speed-reader & physically athletic, intuitive & a very-fast learner. :thumbup: 
and do ask for anything U need - this is the Zen path, straight up the mountain vs the road 
ascending in looping switchbacks & long, easy grades. Excelsior!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

i had another thought - 
a time & cost-saver that combines both can be really effective.

i've helped folks with really serious issues, up to & including aggro with a bite history, who could not afford 
anything like the 6-weeks to 2-months or more of biweekly or weekly help that they'd usually need for that.

so we met once; i met the dog, i watched them handle her/him, i watched the dog react to things [low-level, 
NOT flooding], i'd talk to them over the phone before we met & take notes on behavioral history, they sent me 
e-mails to elaborate on some details [how many bites, how deep, what circs, etc], & i wrote them a protocol:

an outline of where the dog is now, what i think may help, management to prevent rehearsals, 
& a training plan: step one, when the dog reaches X stage begin step 2, etc.

a one-time face-to-face can be very helpful without beggaring U, & if the trainer would agree to some 
limited e-mail or phone support, that would help, too - say, 1 call of 20-minutes duration to discuss, 
every 3 days or once a week, & then the trainer sends some resources to help with what U've talked over.

some trainers already do this, some never have but might be willing, others never would consider it - 
but the worst that can happen is that they say no. :wink: in which case, U are certainly no worse off! 

good luck, & let us know how U get on, 
- terry


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

It's a pity your not in scotland


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Have you ever done transatlantic training. !! hmy:
I'll will take everything you have said on board. Thanks or cheers as we say. !!


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey maybe I could take a few videos of mac misbehaving and you could have a look !!!! 
Ain't the Internet great. !!! Lol.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

redgaz26 said:


> Hey maybe I could take a few videos of mac misbehaving and you could have a look !!!!
> Ain't the Internet great. !!! Lol.


That's a good idea, if it's something you are not sure about. I'd be happy to take a look too


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## Kivasmum (Aug 4, 2011)

I am in no way a trainer or an expert  but with my pup I noticed that when greeting the people that always play and get excited with her, she would greet them by jumping, and mouthing and being generally fussy, namely my oh and son. But with me she would sit and wait to be stroked, so I got them both to ignore her when they came to where ever she was until she sat and behaved, then said hello. She is catching on very well and more often than not will greet them tail wagging and happy, but sit and wait. Then if they want to play its their choice. She is only 9 and a half weeks old though so I don't know wether this would do any good for a dog that, as has been mentioned, is a teenager with attitude  like I said I'm not a trainer but just thought I would share. Good luck with him


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Kivasmum said:


> I am in no way a trainer or an expert  but with my pup I noticed that when greeting the people that always play and get excited with her, she would greet them by jumping, and mouthing and being generally fussy, namely my oh and son. But with me she would sit and wait to be stroked, so I got them both to ignore her when they came to where ever she was until she sat and behaved, then said hello. She is catching on very well and more often than not will greet them tail wagging and happy, but sit and wait. Then if they want to play its their choice. She is only 9 and a half weeks old though so I don't know wether this would do any good for a dog that, as has been mentioned, is a teenager with attitude  like I said I'm not a trainer but just thought I would share. Good luck with him


That's in my head. I want people to come in and mac to be sitting there all excited but only go to someone if asked. At the moment if he's to excited I put him in his cage to calm down.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> Hey maybe I could take a few videos of mac misbehaving and you could have a look !!!!
> Ain't the Internet great. !!! Lol.


EXCELLENT thought - post em here. :thumbup:

Just be careful *not* to flood him - we want a low-level sample, not, _"this is Mac losing 
his mind..."_ followed by, _"& this is Mac after he's lost his mind, when he's officially 
clinically insane."_ :yikes:


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## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> anyone heard of this lady Home Dog Training in Glasgow Ayr, Kilmarnock & Irvine
> 
> I really need some help with my pup, and all the ebooks and videos are not working, any idea about the cost for getting someone like this to help??


I'm in Ayrshire and I highly recommend a behaviourist called Heather Smith. She's been a life saver for us. Very reasonable - she charged us £45 for a home visit and spent half a day with us!! Don't know if that's her normal rate.

She really is excellent. Very kind and loving to the dogs but firm too. Really knows her stuff. She sorted out an aggression (towards humans) problem in our Beagle boy that we struggled with (with the help of other trainers) for three years. She saved the day when out of the blue our girl started attacking and bullying our boy. I have complete faith in her and highly recommend her.

Training & Behavioural Consultations - Trainyourdogs with Heather Smith


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

scarter said:


> Training & Behavioural Consultations - Trainyourdogs with Heather Smith


from the TRAINING page of the site - QUOTE, 
_'Behavioural Consultations
I am a qualified behaviourist with experience of working with a variety of different animals.'_

Ms Smith is a college-grad with a psychology degree & teaching experience with children. 
I am sure she's familiar with dogs, & i congratulate her on the titles she achieved with her dogs, 
but HTM is not behavioral-science, & i would not refer to her as a 'qualified behaviorist'. 
a behaviorist has academic credentials in behavior, either a BSc or a PhD; a degree in psychology 
is not animal-behavior.

If Ms Smith advertised her skill as a teacher for autistic children, it would be directly applicable; 
as it is, her work with dogs is based on her own experience, & while i believe she could be 
very helpful to someone who wants to begin freestyle or HTM, i would not recommend her for a case 
that involved aggro, sep-anx, global fears, or other serious behavioral issues.

if i say, "i am a house-painter", i should be able to show U houses i've painted. 
but it's much easier to fix a bad painting-job than a B-Mod outcome that was not what was wanted, 
no matter how well-intended the effort. Even if it gets no worse, if it gets no better the behavior continues - 
& the longer it continues, the more fluent, practiced & habitual it becomes.

JMO & IME, 
- terry


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

scarter said:


> Training & Behavioural Consultations - Trainyourdogs with Heather Smith


this post deeply worries me - 


scarter said:


> Firstly I'd like to stress that I am far from being a dog expert and certainly have no experience of large, and therefore potentially dangerous dogs. I have Beagles. So please don't take anything that I'm about to say as advice - just food for thought.
> 
> My sweet little Beagle boy sounds a lot like your boy. We got him at 7 weeks and on day one he nearly removed a finger from my hand when I tried to take a sock away from him. He screamed the place down on a daily basis when he didn't get his own way. We used positive training methods and took advice throughout. He got worse - to the point where you'd tell him to go out of the kitchen and he'd growl - so you reach out to grab his collar and he'd bite. Yet he was a submissive little boy and very sweet most of the time. We consulted two or three behaviourists - all positive trainers. He just got worse. Now he's a little Beagle and we don't have kids so it wasn't a major worry but it was a problem.
> 
> ...


 i think this is extremely misleading, & potentially dangerous. 
- aggression is not *'a battle of wills'.* Aggression is aggression.

- *dominance* has a strictly-defined meaning in behavior. it has to do with *resources* - not aggro. 
it is *intra*species, not *inTER*species. And it has sod-all to do with status or rank.

- aggression is not "cured" overnight, or instantly. Aggro can, however be *suppressed* very quickly. 
that does not mean it's been 'fixed', or indeed addressed at all - it's just not on display in the same way, 
but the original problem can easily have been made worse by the suppression.

*E-T-A:* re suppression - 
i know of no other means of 'instantly' changing behavior that has been practiced for some time. 
the fact that the dog has no history of a habitual behavior with me, as opposed to a long history of a particular habit 
with the owner, means that i may be able to do things with, or for, or to the dog, which the owner cannot. 
that i can do it doesn't mean the owner can imitate me; the thing that must change is the dog's emotional response. 
when the trigger - the stimulus or circs - arises, the dog needs a new association *in place of* arousal, fear, anger, etc.
____________________________________________

- aggro is not about 'who calls the shots', 'who's in charge', or a contest of wills.

none of this is anything i would ever recommend.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Well last night I made a tiny tiny start in training mac. My friend came round and usually as soon as he's in the door mac is all over him. I was sitting beside mac and as soon as the door opened I put my hand on his head and said "stay ". I did not use any force. He stayed. !!! Yeah.*
I was well happy. A small thing but a start. !!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> ...My friend came round & usually as soon as he's in the door, Mac is all over him.
> I [sat] beside Mac, & as soon as the door opened, I put my hand on his head & said "stay".
> I did not use any force. He stayed. !!! Yeah.* I was well happy. A small thing but a start.


not to be critical, but if he had ducked to avoid Ur hand, or even simply rocketed toward the visitor, 
what could U possibly have done to stop him plowing into Ur friend at 35-mph?  
how far were U from the door, & how much momentum could he have reached before impact? :smilewinkgrin:

i'd suggest setting him up for success - *have restraint on him before the visitor arrives, 
or if the visit is unplanned, get a restraint on him BEFORE opening the door.* 
this can be a leash attached to U - not merely in Ur hand, but with the wrist-loop attached to a belt, 
which is then buckled, & the 6-foot leash then held when needed, or loose when not required.

or U can use a tether - 
screw an eyebolt into the baseboard, clip an 18-inch long or 2-ft long bike-cable to it, clip the dog's collar 
to the free end, & now the dog is safely secured and U are hands-free; U can reward calm behavior from 
a distance, while accepting a package, greeting a friend, or entertaining a group.

for more training uses:
Tethered to Success

most big-box hardware stores will cheerfully make up bike-cable in custom lengths; be sure to include 
a SWIVEL on one or both ends before they are clamped shut. Some spring-clips include a swivel base, 
but U may have to use a figure-8 swivel & a double-ended spring clip: the swivel clamped in place, 
double-ended spring-clip, length of cable, spring-clip clamped into cable-end, clipped to dog's collar. 
the dog can be moved from room to room, or one place to another in the same room, by installing a few 
more eyebolts [they make small holes, easily filled & patched, if U rent].

a PORTABLE tether can be made by screwing the eyebolt into a 2-ft length of 2 x 4, clip the tether [just as above] 
to the eyebolt, choose a DOOR as a station, put the 2 x 4 behind the door, slide the cable *under* the door, 
close the door, & clip the free end to the dog's collar.

the portable tether can be moved to any door, so room to room, or entry to closet-door, etc.

to quote Brian Kilcommons, _'Control first - then train.'_


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## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

OP - don't be swayed by people picking holes in my terminology. The lady really is quite wonderful with dogs. I wouldn't like to comment on her qualifications. I'm sure if you asked she'd be happy to fill you in on the facts.

I'm well aware that there's a lot of professional jealousy in the dog world and people with different backgrounds and qualifications slagging each other off. I refuse to be drawn into that. To her credit, Mrs Smith didn't engage in this kind of behaviour at all. 

She's highly regarded in the circles I move in. But what I go by is her results. NOT suppressed dogs, but happy and well balanced dogs where before she came along we had problems. 

Mrs Smith observed for some time, then gave us a few minor changes to make to our routines. Next to nothing really. Yet the problem was solved just like that. When you get someone that really knows what they're doing it *can* (not suggesting it always will be) be a trivial matter to put things right. Just tiny tweaks and a bit of education on seeing things from the dog's point of view can make the world of difference. 

Have you noticed how dogs will play up with some people but not others? The same with kids. Some people have a calmness, an air of authority - whatever - and people, kids, dogs - everything seems to chill out and behave well around them. Well, I guess what Mrs Smith does is just teach you to behave in a way that will make your dog content. Which means learning to see the world through your dog's eyes and consider things from his point of view.

Best of luck with everything. I know how upsetting it is when things aren't going well with the doggies. Whatever you choose to do I hope it has a fabulous outcome!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

scarter said:


> I wouldn't like to comment on her qualifications. I'm sure if you asked
> she'd be happy to fill you in on the facts.


from Ms Smith's website - About Heather - Trainyourdogs with Heather Smith


> _* I have had dogs for most of my life and was brought up with dogs, & for the short time I've spent without dogs,
> have had other pets & looked after dogs belonging to friends and family.The first dog of my very own
> was a Chihuahua called Che (Guevara!) - a very little dog with a BIG name and personality. He was bought
> for me when I was at University & although he didn't do anything competitively he had a large repertoire of tricks!
> ...





scarter said:


> I'm well aware that there's a lot of professional jealousy in the dog world
> & people with different backgrounds & qualifications slagging each other off.


how can i compete with a trainer in the UK, while i am in the USA? 
if i'm not competing with that trainer, why would i be 'jealous'?

how is pointing out their listed credentials 'slagging off' a person? 
The material came directly from Ms Smith's website.

i refer people on PF-uk to many other trainers; many of them i don't know, have never conversed with, 
& am unlikely ever to meet. How do i do that? 
*by reading their websites, their articles, & checking their credentials.*

i refer folks on other pet-owners' lists to other trainers, stateside - again, by examining their websites, 
reading their articles, & checking their credentials. I sometimes get a thank-U from the pet-owner. :001_smile:


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Ok here's a video taken this morning, mac is playing with my father in law, but when he plays he try's to eat you, he bit him a good few times, after he gets his bone he just drops it and goes back to him, he likes dogs so can handle him but mac will do this with anyone and it's hard to get him to stop, we came into the house and left him in the garden by himself to calm down.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Awww, Mac's a sweetheart, he's lovely. :001_tt1: 

The behaviourists will tell you what's happening I'm sure, but I'd be taking your father-in-law to a behaviourist, not your puppy. lol


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

redgaz26 said:


> Ok here's a video taken this morning, mac is playing with my father in law, but when he plays he try's to eat you, he bit him a good few times, after he gets his bone he just drops it and goes back to him, he likes dogs so can handle him but mac will do this with anyone and it's hard to get him to stop, we came into the house and left him in the garden by himself to calm down.
> Mac - YouTube


Okay, a few questions. Is your father in law playing with him in the same way every one else does, or is he acting like that in the video for the purpose of the video?

Your father in law was making situations worse by looming over Mac, lifting his hands up, going after him etc., which basically is making Mac more stress and over-stimulated.

The first way to tackle such a problem is simply to stop play so arousing games with Mac! Any play time should be calmer and you should aim to read the signals that indicates Mac is getting hyped up. The nipping and biting seems to be redirected frustration to me, e.g. Mac gets over-stressed and automatically nips. Keeping his stress levels lower will help reduce this. Try playing with a tennis ball that Mac can retrieve or work on a new game, building it up slowly.

I would work on impulse control- more 'Leave' 'Drop' and 'Take' commands if he doesn't know them already. Teaching a 'Go To Mat' and 'Settle' command is also good, which can be worked up to exercises like these:
Treibball - pushing right along! - YouTube

Overall, I would emphasis training games at the moment- teaching commands and tricks through rewards-based learning, proofing in different environments- rather than chase/contact games.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

He didn't know I was taking the video!!!
Yes he's not helping. But mac will start that sort of thing anytime. He will come up to and just bark and bite. He loves to play but it's not much fun getting bit. I've tried a ball but he quickly comes back to me to play with.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> ...[in this] video taken this morning, Mac is playing with my father-in-law,
> but when Mac plays he tries to eat you, Mac bit him a good few times, after he gets his bone he just drops it
> & goes back to FIL, who likes dogs & can handle him... but *Mac will do this with anyone & it's hard to get him to stop*,
> we came into the house and left him in the garden by himself to calm down.
> ...


Ur FIL is an bloody eejit; i'd put a *$#*@%* on him & zap him every time he went to wind the dog up. :mad5:

U are complaining about *precisely* what Mr Dingbat is rehearsing. 
there's no point whatever in B-mod for the dog while FIL-Dingbat continues this nonsense. 
he is *instigating* the behavior by getting Mac over-excited & highly aroused, then snatching 
his hands / arms away when the dog attempts to target them; EVEN MORE DANGEROUS, the dog re-directs 
after a few minutes of frustration, & grabs *at his thighs & legs.*

- unless FIL can learn to control himself, i'd ban him from any contact with the dog unless i was watching. 
if that meant locking the dog in my bedroom every time i left the house, i'd do that.

- feel free to share my opinion & suggestions, which boil down to, STOP THAT RIGHT NOW!, 
with the F-I-L. :nono:


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

Yeah I know it's a bit silly but what I'm trying to say is mac will start that kind of stuff at anytime. Without being asked to play if you know what I mean. He does it in the house as well, I find he does it after he's been for a long walk. 
He will start barking and going for your ankles. 
And yes fil did look very silly in the video. !!!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> ...Mac will start that kind of stuff at anytime.


it didn't arise in a vacuum; it was taught to him, *he likes it*, it's addicting & exciting. 
*so stop it - altogether & completely.* No more chase the dog, threats/loom, grab, snatch 
a hand or arm away, tease, poke at, and so on.

if the bad-play does not stop, the dog's mouthy, provoking behavior will not stop. 
period.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Must admit when I watched the video and before I had read Rottiefan and Leashed for lifes posts, I though Oh dear and came to same conclusion.
My Malamute went through the grabby snatchy stage when ball playing through over excitement and the way I stopped him was through controlled play only. Teaching sit and wait helped. So with any games, He had to sit and wait before a ball was thrown, and until I released him with find it, I then taught him retrieve, Drop the ball toy, then sit wait until it was thrown again and the find it release. I worked on the individual commands and parts, and then put them all together. I found it helped with impulse control and as it was structured play rather than a wild free for all it really helped.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Must admit when I watched the video and before I had read Rottiefan and Leashed for lifes posts, I though Oh dear and came to same conclusion.
> My Malamute went through the grabby snatchy stage when ball playing through over excitement and the way I stopped him was through controlled play only. Teaching sit and wait helped. So with any games, He had to sit and wait before a ball was thrown, and until I released him with find it, I then taught him retrieve, Drop the ball toy, then sit wait until it was thrown again and the find it release. I worked on the individual commands and parts, and then put them all together. I found it helped with impulse control and as it was structured play rather than a wild free for all it really helped.


Second that ^^^^

Exactly what we had to do - Kilo used to snatch and grab at anything in our hands when he got excited, not just toys but the washing, shopping etc. Introducing controlled play with his ball and frisbee has automatically transferred to him stopping the grabbing games with other items.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

I agree, it's daft. But what I'm asking is what to do when he starts that kind of thing?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

CU: Snap demos relaxing on mat and off-switch game - YouTube

Snap is a terrierrrist & relaxes on a mat *to earn the chance* to chase, grab & kill a fake-foxtail 
on a flirt-pole; notice how Leslie gets very-picky & marks soft blinky-eyes, *a still tail,* & other tiny details.

details do matter; simply crouching on the mat in Sphinx-pose is nowhere near as relaxed as lying one hip over, 
body loose, eyes soft, open mouth & open face [closed mouth & tight face is way too-intent], & so on.

_Control Unleashed_ is an excellent book for teaching this, & the local library should be able 
to borrow a copy for U, if they have none of their own.

there are also dozens of CU-videos on UTube, just be aware that the skill of the trainers will be all over 
the map; some will be very advanced, some will be klutzes & have terrible timing, but that's OK - 
bookmark or save the ones U like best as favorites, & study how they do it. :thumbsup:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

redgaz26 said:


> I agree, it's daft.
> But what I'm asking is what to do when he starts that kind of thing?


ask the dog to sit. Toss a ball to chase *after* he sits.

carry a toy hidden in a pocket; he bugs U, ignore him. THEN say his Sacred Name, get his attention 
[he looks toward U], *snap that toy - already in Ur hand!* away from U.

if he knows fetch, have him bring it back; a 2nd toy eliminates arguing over possession, he only needs 
to drop Toy #1 to have toy #2 launched instantly [be sure to make it PROMPT].

teach him Tug-of-Peace; then teach him Super-Tug. 
Pet Forums Community - View Single Post - dog body-language - and why it matters so much...

U also have to *separately* teach him self-control. This is something he has never learned.

i would also use NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free: 
i'd use *sit* as the coin of the realm, & have him sit for every single want & every need. 
to get his brekkie/dinner from the counter to the floor, to get the door open to exit/enter, 
to be petted or get other attention [butt scratch, belly rub...], to get his water bowl filled, 
to get his leash on for a walk... AnyThing, EveryThing, All The Time. 
*how good U are at giving him opportunities to practice, determines how quickly the penny drops:* 
'to get anything at all that i want, i SIT.' *now the dog has a Pretty-Please signal, which is wonderful 
for both U & the dog - * the dog can ask for something wanted or needed, & we can say 'yes' or 'no'.

WATCH the dog carefully - be expecting that first request, & so long as it is not actually dangerous, 
Please Say Yes - if U say 'no' to the very first thing the dog spontaneously asks for, U can kill their 'Pretty-Please'. 
the dog will give up, disheartened that they thought they understood the rules, & they were wrong.  
so resolve ahead of time, _when the dog *looks* at U, very precisely offers an un-cued Sit, 
& looks at something... or sits next-to something, Say Yes._ two-way communication with a dog is great!


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> *LeashedForLife-* i would also use NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free:





> *LeashedForLife-* two-way communication is my favorite result of NILIF. I love it.





> *LeashedForLife-* NILIF has sod-all to do with retribution or punishment; it's quid pro quo.
> that's Latin - look it up. Cheers, - terry


.............................................
..........................*C.O.A.P.E*

........................[*ask?* .............................*SAY*
.......................[*WHY?*...............................*NO!!*

*C.O.A.P.E says.....*

*The Nastiness of NILF progammes*

"_one 'technique' that is often used by dominance theory behaviour practitioners and trainers  a Nothing in Life is Free (NILF) programme..........You, the owner/*boss * or *alpha* of your dogs pack, *must take control* 'make the dog work for a living' (force)"_
_"In *fact* it can be highly stressful both for the dog and the owners alike"_

*C.O.A.P.E PROVES*
.*The Three Terrors of NILF Torture*

_*"he may become utterly depressed in response to a NILF programme"*_

*"We're all well aware of prison and internment camps---the victim has no control over his situation."*

.................................................*SAY NO TO NILF TORTURE*

COAPE - Centre of Applied Pet Ethology

.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> i would also use NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free:
> i'd use *sit* as the coin of the realm, & have him sit for every single want & every need.
> to get his brekkie/dinner from the counter to the floor, to get the door open to exit/enter,
> to be petted or get other attention [butt scratch, belly rub...], to get his water bowl filled,
> ...





SleepyBones said:


> There you go again with your old time John Fishers dominance theory, pain, pet dog demotion, things must get worse first, barbaric, controling, forceing, rolling, beating, kicking, spitting, alpha rolling, utterly depressed dog, I am the *boss 'alpha'*, beatings, torture, to train the dog victim.
> 
> C.O.A.P.E, who you recommend and hold upon high, as the epitomy of excellence & purity completly dismiss your NILF training style as cruel, out of date, useless, traumatic, wicked, highly stressfull, does'nt work,heres what your great Solomns at C.O.A.P.E say about people like you & the old time methods you promote:
> 
> ...


Since when is getting a dog to sit before getting things, Dominance theory, pain,forcing, rolling, beating,kicking and alpha rolling etc. and all the other things you mentioned. The dog jumps up and gets over excited and mouth and nips, makes sense to me to teach an alternative behaviour like sitting.
to teach him impulse control. Hes rewarded for the sitting and alternative behaviour to what he is doing now.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> LeashedForLife AKA Terry -
> 
> _i would also use NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free... _


and in bizarre response: 


SleepyBones said:


> AKA Denis -
> 
> There you go again with *your old time John Fisher's* [sic] dominance theory, pain, pet dog demotion,
> things must get worse first, barbaric, controling, forceing, rolling, beating, kicking, spitting, alpha rolling,
> utterly depressed dog, I am the *boss 'alpha'*, beatings, torture, to train the dog victim.


Sleepy-Brains, 
FYI: there are 3 things i know about John Fisher - he was a founding member of the APDT-uk, 
he trained the first reward-trained British police-k9, & he wrote a book about it: _'Dogwise'_. 
that's it - i've READ the book. I am not a UK-citizen, have never been to the UK, never took a Fisher seminar 
[assuming he hosted any], & never met the man.

OTOH - 
i am *sincerely sorry* that i missed meeting Mr Fisher. 
i am personally, even sorrier that i have to deal with Ur illogic on this forum. 
why not toss the secret-identity & sign those posts?

to return to the subject:
NILIF has sod-all to do with retribution or punishment; it's _quid pro quo._ 
that's Latin - look it up. Cheers, 
- terry


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> Sleepy-Brains,


Wow, that made me laugh! :laugh:



SleepyBones said:


> There you go again with your old time John Fishers dominance theory, pain, pet dog demotion, things must get worse first, barbaric, controling, forceing, rolling, beating, kicking, spitting, alpha rolling, utterly depressed dog, I am the *'boss' 'alpha'*, beatings, torture, to train the dog victim.
> 
> C.O.A.P.E, who you recommend and hold upon high, as the epitomy of excellence & purity completly dismiss your NILF training style as cruel, out of date, useless, traumatic, wicked, highly stressfull, does'nt work,heres what your great Solomns at C.O.A.P.E say about people like you & the old time methods you promote:
> 
> ...


NILIF programmes can sometimes be imposed on dogs as a type of rank reduction style of training. But people in this mindset will often punish dogs for the slightest mistake or 'ignorance' of the programme and be obsessed with becoming the 'Alpha' or boss of their dog. They still focus on punishing incorrect response, forcing dogs to do the responses they do want and then giving lazy rewards for it.

Clearly and irrefutably, this is NOT what Terry is advocating. She's even written out clearly for the OP what she means by the NILIF programme:



> i would also use NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free:
> i'd use sit as the coin of the realm, & have him sit for every single want & every need.
> to get his brekkie/dinner from the counter to the floor, to get the door open to exit/enter,
> to be petted or get other attention [butt scratch, belly rub...], to get his water bowl filled,
> to get his leash on for a walk... AnyThing, EveryThing, All The Time.


This is not some dominance rank reduction programme, or status-related mumbo jumbo; it serves to teach impulse control. And what better time to teach it than at times that the dog is going to be given a reinforcement- going outside, having food, receiving affection. The more this is practised, the more the has a routine, and the more he can control his thresholds. And, if I am on the same wavelength as Terry, this is not a programme that needs to be continued for ever; it only serves to teach self-control. Once the dog's behaviour has been improved, such a regimented routine can be relaxed, as along as the dog is continuing to be given mental and physical stimulation and challenges throughout its life. However, that said, a dog will naturally offer these behaviours automatically once behaviour modification has taken place.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Rottiefan said:


> ...this is not a programme that needs to be continued for ever; it only serves to teach self-control.
> Once the dog's behaviour has been improved, such a regimented routine can be relaxed, as along as the dog is continuing
> to be given mental and physical stimulation and challenges throughout its life. However... a dog will naturally offer these behaviours automatically, once behaviour modification has taken place.


yes. :thumbsup: got it in one.

that's also the reason i can recognize dogs who've learned NILIF at PetsMart: they are the dogs who walk over 
to a bin of favorite toys or bones or treats, LOOK at their handler, SIT precisely, & wag their tails 
with a huge smile: _'May i, pretty please?...'_ They generally get what they ask for - and why not?

they ask for what they'd like so nicely; it would be petty to deny them. Unlike human-kids, 
they don't want to buy out the store - they usually have one heart's desire at a time.

two-way communication is my favorite result of NILIF. I love it.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> *LeashedForLife-* i would also use NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free:





> *LeashedForLife-*two-way communication is my favorite result of NILIF. I love it.





> *LeashedForLife-* NILIF has sod-all to do with retribution or punishment; it's quid pro quo.
> that's Latin - look it up. Cheers, - terry


.............................................
..........................*C.O.A.P.E*

........................[*ask?* .............................*SAY*
.......................[*WHY?*...............................*NO!!*

*C.O.A.P.E says.....*

*The Nastiness of NILF progammes*

"_one 'technique' that is often used by dominance theory behaviour practitioners and trainers  a Nothing in Life is Free (NILF) programme..........You, the owner/*boss * or *alpha* of your dogs pack, *must take control* 'make the dog work for a living' (force)"_
_"In *fact* it can be highly stressful both for the dog and the owners alike"_

*C.O.A.P.E PROVES*
.*The Three Terrors of NILF Torture*

_*"he may become utterly depressed in response to a NILF programme"*_

*"We're all well aware of prison and internment camps---the victim has no control over his situation."*

.................................................*SAY NO TO NILF TORTURE*

COAPE - Centre of Applied Pet Ethology


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> *L4L -* i would also use NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free:


*Rottiefan*-NILIF programmes can sometimes be imposed on dogs as a type of rank reduction style of training.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

got my 10 metre lead today, going to try some recall training tomorrow!!


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

done a bit of recall, not to much, he comes back ok!! but what I did find was that he gets a much better walk on the lead, i might look a bit silly walking around with such a large lead but mac gets far better movement, if we get near a road or some kids i tell him to stay and then i wrap the lead up and walk again but on a short lead, been pout 3 times today with it and finding it far better
not sure if thats what it's really for but it works for me!!
gave him a lovely meaty bone for being a good boy and he's eating it right now:smilewinkgrin:


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> gave him a lovely meaty bone for being a good boy


If he starts biteing chips out of it I suggest you then change to a big chew bone.


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

this is what i gave him Mini Roasties Dog Treat 2 Pack by Pets at Home | Pets at Home

but these look good, bit expensive but reviews say they last forever !!

Interpet Nylabone Nylabone Dura Chew Big Chew Bone Beef: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies


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## redgaz26 (Jan 11, 2011)

now he's sleeping next to me , he is shattered !!


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