# New to breeding



## kateaitken07 (Jul 19, 2009)

Any good tips??

I would like to breed Nips. Shes a year old, black and half siamese. She has already had one litter (with last owners as explained in a different post).

When would she be ready for breeding? I dont want to breed to fast too soon as her health and happiness is paramount. She just made such a lovely mum!!

She shows no signs in being in season. One of my females used to scream the place down but Nips is just Nips!!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Why do you want to breed?


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

who would you mate her too?! 

if you want to do what's best for her then please have her neutered asap. if she's not long had a litter under a year old i'd certainly want to give her and her body a rest.


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## kateaitken07 (Jul 19, 2009)

I would want to mate her to another siamese.

I dont want to breed from her now, I wanted to wait a bit


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

kateaitken07 said:


> I would want to mate her to another siamese.
> 
> I dont want to breed from her now, I wanted to wait a bit


But she isnt a siamese.

I wouldnt have thought that many decent breeders will allow their studs to cover a moggie.


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## kateaitken07 (Jul 19, 2009)

Ok cool I wont breed, only asked for advice for the future!!!

My cats are my life and I wouldnt want to do anything to comprimise there health


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

kateaitken07 said:


> Ok cool I wont breed, only asked for advice for the future!!!
> 
> My cats are my life and I wouldnt want to do anything to comprimise there health


I wouldnt breed unless there was a very good reason too IE, to improve a particular breed.

There are already countless "accidental" litters and thousands of cats in rescue centres with no homes. There are also many people finding it hard to sell kittens right now.

I have a half siamese, shes about 12 now. VERY smart cat. All her litter was black except her, and shes a tabby. Built like a siamese, but a little bit smaller.

You'll have to post some pics


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2009)

id definatly not breed her. 
I had an accidental mating a year ago when missy got out of the house while in season. Shes a house cat and dont like being outside but escaped somehow and we found her the next day at the front of our house.
Anyway about 9 weeks later she had 7 gorgeous kittens. We decided to keep one ourselves which is our black and white Lucky (can see him in my albums) But the remaining 6 didnt have homes. we had them advertised as soon as they were born but no one was interested and we were only asking £15 a kitten. In the end we had to offer them for free. We had a little more interest but we still had two others Both jet black that no one wanted. When they were 14 weeks old we finally managed to find them homes with a member of my family. we would of kept them if we couldnt but i thought id tell you my story to warn you & others that may be thinking of breeding their moggy, that even if you dont plan to sell them for much you still may end up not finding homes for them.


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## kateaitken07 (Jul 19, 2009)

Forgot to add, I didnt want to breed to sell. Its just that nips is so beautiful, so is Boo he daughter that I would keep her babies for myself. If she had more then 3 or 4 I have a couple of close friends that have said they would love one of her babies.

I wouldnt do it on a whim. Sorry if it came across that way


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Oh god no I hate to come across as horrible but please don't! Why breed from her? Do you want to better the breed, make money or breed to keep?

Please reconsider!


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

i am not saying breed or dont breed but if you did decide to go ahead and breed her, you would have to ensure that 1. she had all the required blood tests done and did not have any diseases, that 2. the stud you were using had the same (the owners would have to prove it) and that 3. the cat was left at least a year since having her last litter and would always be best to try and make sure you had some suitable homes lined up before hand if possible 

i may get some negativity from some people for giving this advice. Yes there are a lot of cats in shelters, I have just started volunteering for a cat rescue organisation myself. however you will find that if you go to a lot of rescue centres no matter how much experience you have it is VERY difficult to actually get a cat from them (I was approved for fostering but not for rehoming as i have 3 cats and 2 kids so go figure)


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

'free to good homes' arent always the best way to go about things.

If you do go ahead with it make sure she is health tested, FIV & FeLv & up to date on vacs etc. Ask local studs near you whether they would take her, I couldnt say whether they would or not, Im guessing more a 'no' though.

They add everything up! Birthing kits, c-sections (you never know) hand rearing 2 hours just incase, may never happen but nice to be informed & know how to do it if it does.

You might spend a good £500 including a mating fee and get £50 per kit back, if you can do it and still get them good homes or if they dont sell & give the ma home then its up to you, just dont let her out and about when in season please!!


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## kateaitken07 (Jul 19, 2009)

ellie8024 said:


> i am not saying breed or dont breed but if you did decide to go ahead and breed her, you would have to ensure that 1. she had all the required blood tests done and did not have any diseases, that 2. the stud you were using had the same (the owners would have to prove it) and that 3. the cat was left at least a year since having her last litter and would always be best to try and make sure you had some suitable homes lined up before hand if possible
> 
> i may get some negativity from some people for giving this advice. Yes there are a lot of cats in shelters, I have just started volunteering for a cat rescue organisation myself. however you will find that if you go to a lot of rescue centres no matter how much experience you have it is VERY difficult to actually get a cat from them (I was approved for fostering but not for rehoming as i have 3 cats and 2 kids so go figure)


I havent made a definate descision yet, I just wanted to know the ins and outs of it all before I made up my mind. Plus I would keep the babies but Ive already had a few friends say they would love one of her babies too.

I was actually going to work for the cats protection league but because I already have cats of my own it was difficult.

And I agree with what you say, I have tried to get rescue cats before but cause I have cats and chldren already its pretty impossible!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

kateaitken07 said:


> I havent made a definate descision yet, I just wanted to know the ins and outs of it all before I made up my mind. Plus I would keep the babies but Ive already had a few friends say they would love one of her babies too.
> 
> I was actually going to work for the cats protection league but because I already have cats of my own it was difficult.
> 
> And I agree with what you say, I have tried to get rescue cats before but cause I have cats and chldren already its pretty impossible!!


You will find that all of your 'friends' will slowly fade away once the kittens are born........when faced with the reality of a kitten they tend to disappear quite quickly! Dont rely on that at all in your decision!!!


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## kateaitken07 (Jul 19, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> 'free to good homes' arent always the best way to go about things.
> 
> If you do go ahead with it make sure she is health tested, FIV & FeLv & up to date on vacs etc. Ask local studs near you whether they would take her, I couldnt say whether they would or not, Im guessing more a 'no' though.
> 
> ...


This is why I asked advice first  I can hand rear cats, thats no problem as I have done it (sucessfully) in the past aged just 12 years old.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

on your website it says you want to breed your tabby kitten on there too. no decent breeder with a siamese stud will let you use them. it's not allowed. you may get a back street one but will the stud be healthy? good chance it won't be and will therefore infect your cat, would you want that? 

neuter them. if you want to breed cats i suggest you look into the breeding of pedigrees and doing it all above board.

there is no rules to prevent you breeding moggies and if that's what you want who am i to stop you but i think it's not a great idea,


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> on your website it says you want to breed your tabby kitten on there too. no decent breeder with a siamese stud will let you use them. it's not allowed. you may get a back street one but will the stud be healthy? good chance it won't be and will therefore infect your cat, would you want that?
> 
> neuter them. if you want to breed cats i suggest you look into the breeding of pedigrees and doing it all above board.
> 
> there is no rules to prevent you breeding moggies and if that's what you want who am i to stop you but i think it's not a great idea,


Totally agree.

Look how many moggie kittens there are being born even in the recession we have currently - how many of those kittens will have decent homes to go to? There are so many moggie and crossbred kittens around that many people are simply no longer prepared to pay for what is in effect the product of a mistake as the 'breeders' claim them to be - and there seems to be an awful lot of these so-called mistakes these days.

I think it disgraceful that these poor pet cats are deliberately allowed outside to get pregnant and treated as cash cows. 

Not too long ago moggie kittens were given away free not sold for silly prices that they are today - I think finally the bubble has burst and we are going back to those days as people are getting much wiser.


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

I know this may be a little off topic but I am always so surprised by how many poeple there are saying there are millions of moggies without homes, I don't doubt that its true but I personally have never managed to easily find a kitten. I was lucky with my first, a shelter was closing down and I got one of the last ones, I paid £50 and she came fully vaccinated the second I had to travel the width of Scotland to a shelter who was willing to home to an indoor only, the ones near me said they would only home a cat with white ears to be indoor, the third, again I have had to go back to Ayrshire, those two cost £50 also and came with their first vaccination and were microchipped. In my current hunt for a kitten I have been lucky enough to find a shelter in my home town who may have kittens available but I think they want £55 vaccinated but no chip.

I must add though, I wouldn't be keen to get a kitten from a random person out the paper etc as I couldn't risk my girls catching something, I use shelters where I know they have been vet checked and also not only am I being good to myself for having more babies but I'm being good to the kits by offering them a loving home.

I think the only time I would buy kitten form a private ad would be if it were a pedigree with paperwork and parents paperwork etc regardless of how much I wanted one.


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

claire makes a reasonable point, i think though in scotland there are far less available cats and kittens than there is in england, most of the rescues here do not have waiting lists to rehome cats and kittens and the rspca one here is usually less than half capacity when i go and look round.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

You already have six cats. As TB quite rightly says your "friends" will disappear into the ether once the kittens are born.
What are you going to do with perhaps another 4-8 cross kittens?
I am afraid that no reputable Siamese breeder will let you anywhere near their stud cat and even if they would they are still cross kittens/moggies.

If you like kittens then become a kitten fosterer for the CP, much better than just adding to the problem.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

claire17480 said:


> I know this may be a little off topic but I am always so surprised by how many poeple there are saying there are millions of moggies without homes, I don't doubt that its true but I personally have never managed to easily find a kitten. I was lucky with my first, a shelter was closing down and I got one of the last ones, I paid £50 and she came fully vaccinated the second I had to travel the width of Scotland to a shelter who was willing to home to an indoor only, the ones near me said they would only home a cat with white ears to be indoor, the third, again I have had to go back to Ayrshire, those two cost £50 also and came with their first vaccination and were microchipped. In my current hunt for a kitten I have been lucky enough to find a shelter in my home town who may have kittens available but I think they want £55 vaccinated but no chip.
> 
> I must add though, I wouldn't be keen to get a kitten from a random person out the paper etc as I couldn't risk my girls catching something, I use shelters where I know they have been vet checked and also not only am I being good to myself for having more babies but I'm being good to the kits by offering them a loving home.
> 
> I think the only time I would buy kitten form a private ad would be if it were a pedigree with paperwork and parents paperwork etc regardless of how much I wanted one.


That's very sensible - I wish everyone thought like that. 

Those were very reasonable prices that you paid for your cats from the shelters, just enough to cover the cost of vaccinating and maybe microchipping.

I would always recommend people who want a moggie to go to the shelters first - those people do tremendous work for the unwanted and abandoned cats and kittens out there. :wink5:

As for those that deliberately breed then attempt to charge silly prices - anything over 30 pounds for an unvaccinated kitten is definitely overcharging - avoid them like the plague. You can get kittens for a more realistic price from people who are happy at just covering their basic expenses and not in it for the profit.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2009)

Is it the right time to breed at the moment with this recession going on, there are lots of people unable to look after their fur buddies, don't mean to put the dampers on but something to think about.


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## Cat Lover Chris (Jan 11, 2009)

Kate, one thing you will realise, when you read a lot more of the postings on this web-site, is that when someone like you mentions breeding from their loved female cat, all the "professional breeders" protest in large volumes, about ruining lines etc etc. 

As you have seen, they then comment about it not being common sense to breed and try and sell kittens in these recession hit times. 
Yet, strangely enough, you find that all these "professional breeders" have all got litters of kittens for sale at substantial prices on their web-sites at the current time! The cynic in me says "practice what you preach!"

If you decide to use your queen to have a litter or two, the most important thing is to ensure she is looked after and that any kittens are treated as your own. They will need lots of love and TLC. You will find loads of sensible advice on this web-site if you decide to let her have a litter or two from 
non-judgemental people. Good luck in whatever decision you make.

My own female cat had 5 beautiful kittens, one girl and 4 boys. The boys have all been rehomed with loving cat slaves. The last two went today. We have kept the female kitten. The kittens are 9 weeks old. For the last 4 weeks they have been real fun to watch and play with.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Cat Lover Chris said:


> Kate, one thing you will realise, when you read a lot more of the postings on this web-site, is that when someone like you mentions breeding from their loved female cat, all the "professional breeders" protest in large volumes, about ruining lines etc etc.
> 
> As you have seen, they then comment about it not being common sense to breed and try and sell kittens in these recession hit times.
> Yet, strangely enough, you find that all these "professional breeders" have all got litters of kittens for sale at substantial prices on their web-sites at the current time! The cynic in me says "practice what you preach!"
> ...


You'll realise that these so called 'professional' breeders have homes lined up for the kits before they're even born.


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## kidsandcats (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm really concerned now after reading these posts. I am getting two new kittens at the end of august from a lady in my village. My cat I had as a child was a ferrel, we had him from a kitten and since then I have only ever rescued cats, our last two we got from a local vet who had a litter of kittens brought in from a stray and they didn't have a home. They lived til they were 15 yrs old and were healthy throughout. Our last two we got from Cats Protection (sadly they have both been killed by cars), so I rang them to ask if they had any kittens for the end of aug (going on hols soon) and they don't have any, not at the age I want anyway. Now some might say that they wouldn't give us anymore but they themselves said that we do not live on a busy road and there would be no reason for them not to let us rehome other cats, they said if they were that fussy they would have 3000 cats needing homes. They put my name on a list to get in touch with me if they have any second litters but couldn't promise. In the meantime I heard about the lady in my village who's cat had a litter 3 weeks ago. She is a moggy and they don't know who the father is, although they suspect it is a tabby who lives on their street. This lady fosters for Cats Protection but only as a back up so I thought that she knew what she was doing but she is obviously somebody who didn't get her cat spayed and let her out and hey presto she got pregnant. She is charging £50 a kitten, as we are now having two she is charging £75. She said they will be treated for fleas and worms and will be fully vet checked. Should I be concerned??


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## thompsonk (Jul 4, 2009)

If i was you i would wait for the RSPCA, I got my cat for £50, she had been vaccinated, micro chipped and it was thought she was spayed, it is the RSPCA's policy to rehome all cats as spayed/neutered but because Tilda has brain damage and scar and shaved where she would have been done they didnt want to put her at risk by putting her under to double check, no ones fault, just a mistake really. 

It seems to me that this lady is trying to make money from her queen, worming and flea treatment would need to be given anyway to protect her own cat so thats not something that i would expect to pay for. Im rehoming Tildas kittens at 12wks so they have full advantage of her milk and she can toilet train them and they are weaned and happy for £60 each fully vaccinated and thats only to cover the cost of vaccinations, im not asking for extra for the worming and flea treatment. Tilda getting pregnant was an accident by the way as i was told she was spayed so let her out, i dont want people thinking im irresponsible. I also want to keep them until 12wks so i know their temperment and can make sure they are going to the right homes for them, after all...a cat chooses their slave, not the other way round! hehe

xx


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> on your website it says you want to breed your tabby kitten on there too. no decent breeder with a siamese stud will let you use them. it's not allowed.


Well, yes, it is allowed. GCCF rules specifically allow for stud owners to accept unregistered cats. It is cats that are registered on the non-active register that can't be accepted. In fact if you go through five generations mating to Siamese, eventually the offspring will be registerable as Siamese.

Finding a stud owner to agree will be another matter.

As for not having more than one litter a year, I disagree. Mine usually have two, with no ill effects whatsoever. As long as the girl is in good condition there is no reason at all why she should not be mated again. Girls can make themselves ill by constant calling.

Liz


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> GCCF rules specifically allow for stud owners to accept unregistered cats....... Finding a stud owner to agree will be another matter.


Exactly.

Pedigree kittens are an entirely different ball game to moggies. The market is entirely different. Those that buy pedigree kittens will not entertain moggies nor vice versa.
Many pedigree breeders are being sensible and cutting down the number of litters they are having due to the recession, I see no let up in those who have moggie litters.

I also find it quite distressing and superficial of potential kitten owners wanting a specific age of kitten and will not look at older kittens or young cats.
What do they think kittens grow into in a matter of weeks? Incredible.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

kidsandcats said:


> I'm really concerned now after reading these posts. I am getting two new kittens at the end of august from a lady in my village. My cat I had as a child was a ferrel, we had him from a kitten and since then I have only ever rescued cats, our last two we got from a local vet who had a litter of kittens brought in from a stray and they didn't have a home. They lived til they were 15 yrs old and were healthy throughout. Our last two we got from Cats Protection (sadly they have both been killed by cars), so I rang them to ask if they had any kittens for the end of aug (going on hols soon) and they don't have any, not at the age I want anyway. Now some might say that they wouldn't give us anymore but they themselves said that we do not live on a busy road and there would be no reason for them not to let us rehome other cats, they said if they were that fussy they would have 3000 cats needing homes. They put my name on a list to get in touch with me if they have any second litters but couldn't promise. In the meantime I heard about the lady in my village who's cat had a litter 3 weeks ago. She is a moggy and they don't know who the father is, although they suspect it is a tabby who lives on their street. This lady fosters for Cats Protection but only as a back up so I thought that she knew what she was doing but she is obviously somebody who didn't get her cat spayed and let her out and hey presto she got pregnant. She is charging £50 a kitten, as we are now having two she is charging £75. She said they will be treated for fleas and worms and will be fully vet checked. Should I be concerned??


I dont think you should be worried most moggies breeders dont vet check., some dont even worm (not all, some) so £75 for 2 kittens plus vet checked, they can get a letter from the vet to prove than have been checked if you need it, sounds pretty good for a moglet


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## kidsandcats (Jul 19, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Pedigree kittens are an entirely different ball game to moggies. The market is entirely different. Those that buy pedigree kittens will not entertain moggies nor vice versa.
> Many pedigree breeders are being sensible and cutting down the number of litters they are having due to the recession, I see no let up in those who have moggie litters.
> ...


The reason I want a kitten of between 8-10 weeks is because I have two children and with experience have found that it is better to raise a cat from this age as it is more likely to adapt to the children and not be scared. It is also nice for children to experience the cat as a baby and see it grow and help nurture and bond with it. I am not daft, I know that kittens grow in a matter of weeks, but I also know that getting a cat isn't just for christmas as they say so finding one that will settle into your home without any upset and distress is a massive factor for me. I have rescued cats of older age in the past before I had children and would do it again, but the sad fact is there are more kittens between the age of 6-10 weeks that are being abandoned and need homes than older cats due to people not getting their female cats spayed. I would get mine from CP over a breeder any day but unfortunately there aren't any in my area at this time. Is that superficial?!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

kidsandcats said:


> The reason I want a kitten of between 8-10 weeks is because I have two children and with experience have found that it is better to raise a cat from this age as it is more likely to adapt to the children and not be scared. It is also nice for children to experience the cat as a baby and see it grow and help nurture and bond with it. I am not daft, I know that kittens grow in a matter of weeks, but I also know that getting a cat isn't just for christmas as they say so finding one that will settle into your home without any upset and distress is a massive factor for me. I have rescued cats of older age in the past before I had children and would do it again, but the sad fact is there are more kittens between the age of 6-10 weeks that are being abandoned and need homes than older cats due to people not getting their female cats spayed. I would get mine from CP over a breeder any day but unfortunately there aren't any in my area at this time. Is that superficial?!


You're quite right in being specific with what you want!


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## kidsandcats (Jul 19, 2009)

sequeena said:


> You're quite right in being specific with what you want!


Thank you! I love any cats and they will be old one day!

I'd have loads if my husband let me, plus if I were richer. The cost of insurance and the best cat foods these days doesn't come cheap does it!
Sharon
x


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Kate, you have said that you would be keeping the kittens? How many would you keep? And how many friends are interested? These are one of the main pointers to finalise before mating your cat.
And if your friends for any reason whatsoever couldn't keep the kittens/cats at any age, at any point in life......would you be willing to have them back??

I believe unless you have the room for 8 new kittens in your home. Don't breed. Any breeder whether it be pedigree or moggie should at the very least: 

1. Health tests done (not just vet checked)

2. A waiting list of people wanting your queens kittens (preferably more waiting than she could ever have kittens!)

3. Back up money, incase of emergancy.

4. Willingness to be up every 2 hours feeding and cleaning bums should mum refuse or worse something happens to her (basically surviving on roughly an hours sleep between each! Depending on litter size)

5. Space and finances to take care of the whole litter. Not only raising them but vet check ups, flea and worm treatment etc

6. Space and finances to keep that litter should anything arise with the new owners that they couldn't keep them.

7. Making sure you write up clear contracts with the new owners (no matter if they are friends or not!)

I do believe however that your cats mean a lot to you. And if the pointers above are done then i personally don't see a massive issue. As long as you are not adding to the population in rescue. 

Although please remember, queens can make themselves ill, physically and mentally, if they go through too many seasons and don't get anywhere. And also bear in mind she will do her upmost to escape................and trust me i know  

Keep us all updated
xx


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> You'll realise that these so called 'professional' breeders have homes lined up for the kits before they're even born.


Surely not! How can you possibly do that?

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> I believe unless you have the room for 8 new kittens in your home. Don't breed. Any breeder whether it be pedigree or moggie should at the very least:
> 
> 1. Health tests done (not just vet checked)
> 
> 2. A waiting list of people wanting your queens kittens (preferably more waiting than she could ever have kittens!)


I don't know of any breeder who would only breed in these circumstances. Health tests are the norm if you go out to stud, yes (not that they are worth the paper they're printed on but that's another matter) but I've certainly never taken a cat in for tests when I am going to put her in with my own stud. Does anyone else? I don't breed with any idea of keeping eight kittens either. I do breed with the knowledge that I might end up having to give eight kittens away or sell them for the cost of vaccinations. As for a waiting list, good heavens no! How on earth can you take a waiting list when you haven't even mated the girl? Anyone who seriously thinks that people who book a kitten unseen more than five months in advance are going to stick to their commitment if they see something else they want first, is being totally unrealistic!

Liz


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

Acacia86 said:


> 1. Health tests done (not just vet checked)
> 
> 2. A waiting list of people wanting your queens kittens (preferably more waiting than she could ever have kittens!)
> 
> ...


1 - We don't do this. Why would we when we know they're well and they attend the vets on a regular basis?
2 - Impossible and anyway how would you rely on them not changing their minds?
3 - Agreed
4 - That's a difficult one, we do arrange a week off when the babies are due but after that it would be difficult given that we both work.
5 - Agreed
6 - Hmmm, so if you sell 20 kittens in a year you need to prepare space to have them all back? Not feasible.
7 - Agreed

I think the main things that are required are common sense and a willingness to care for your babies and ensure that they go to good homes (as much as you can because nothing is guaranteed).

One thing though, it is very hard work and can be very expensive.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

lizward said:


> Surely not! How can you possibly do that?
> 
> Liz


It's called having a waiting list


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

i know a few breeders and if you look online there are always ones selling kittens.. if they had waiting lists surely the kittens would all be reserved? so i think its very unfair of people saying that you must have a waiting list. Not all breeders do it, it is a good recommendation but not a must.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

ellie8024 said:


> i know a few breeders and if you look online there are always ones selling kittens.. if they had waiting lists surely the kittens would all be reserved? so i think its very unfair of people saying that you must have a waiting list. Not all breeders do it, it is a good recommendation but not a must.


It's unfair to have a waiting list...is it any fairer to bring kits into this world when you don't know whether you can find homes for them?


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

no i said its unfair to say that you MUST have a waiting list however i also said it was a good recommendation if you could actually READ the post properly before commenting please


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

ellie8024 said:


> no i said its unfair to say that you MUST have a waiting list however i also said it was a good recommendation if you could actually READ the post properly before commenting please


I READ your post and I think you're wrong. It's not unfair to say you must have a waiting list, it's common sense.


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

so you are saying that all the breeders on here that do not use and rely on waiting lists do not have common sense?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

ellie8024 said:


> so you are saying that all the breeders on here that do not use and rely on waiting lists do not have common sense?


Yes, I am. If you're breeding without knowing where the kits will eventually end up then you don't have any common sense.

A lot of breeders here will tell you the same thing. Most of them having waiting lists as long as two years.


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

i think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. i dont believe you can rely on waiting lists.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

ellie8024 said:


> i think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. i dont believe you can rely on waiting lists.


So what is your basis for breeding?


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

i do not breed i actually volunteer doing advertising and fostering for a cat rescue but have found that a great number of peoplep had a long list of folk wanting kittens when the cat was pregnant only to be let down and left with the litter which is why i got them. too many people agree to go on waiting lists but then go and get kittens else where in the mean time


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## Alansw8 (May 25, 2008)

THINK YOU TWO SHOULD PM EACH OTHER IF ITS TURNING INTO A SLAGGING MATCH OR THE MODS SHOULD CLOSE THREAD AS GOOD POINTS ON BOTH SIDES.

All i can say myself is god help all up and coming breeders who are just starting out as maybe we shouldnt show and breed.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Alansw8 said:


> THINK YOU TWO SHOULD PM EACH OTHER IF ITS TURNING INTO A SLAGGING MATCH OR THE MODS SHOULD CLOSE THREAD AS GOOD POINTS ON BOTH SIDES.
> 
> All i can say myself is god help all up and coming breeders who are just starting out as maybe we shouldnt show and breed.


Slagging match? Where? I only see civilised conversation.


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

i have also taken in pregnant cats but i am prepared to keep the babies for as long as it takes to find a suitable home


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

ellie8024 said:


> i do not breed i actually volunteer doing advertising and fostering for a cat rescue but have found that a great number of peoplep had a long list of folk wanting kittens when the cat was pregnant only to be let down and left with the litter which is why i got them. too many people agree to go on waiting lists but then go and get kittens else where in the mean time


I think this is where deposits come in :yesnod: If people want a cat bad enough (I myself have reserved a bengal kitten from taylorbaby for next summer) they will be willing to wait for a happy, healthy kit no matter how long it takes and will be willing to pay a deposit to secure that fact.

I don't breed either but if I did I would be making good use of waiting lists and deposits :thumbup:


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## ellie8024 (May 4, 2009)

yeah the problem is most people just put names on waiting lists and dont take deposits as they are never sure of how many kittens they will have and its cases like that which i unfortunately have to deal with regularly


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

ellie8024 said:


> yeah the problem is most people just put names on waiting lists and dont take deposits as they are never sure of how many kittens they will have and its cases like that which i unfortunately have to deal with regularly


Yes I agree this does happen all too often. Luckily most responsible breeders work on a first come first served basis. And like I said if you want a specific cat you will be willing to wait :yesnod:


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

All the breeders I have been in contact with have different methods to rehome. Some solely rely on listings on breed clubs/contacts within the breed, others DO have a waiting list before a kitten is born (I was on one waiting list, I dropped out & she told me she didn't mind as she had three more waiting for a kitten from her) & others are booked but if some fall through or if they option them but change their mind they advertise those kittens out of the litter. 

But I think all breeders have feelers out to know how wanted the kittens are before sending them to stud, surely? I don't think any breeder would want to be a position where they have a litter of four kittens and could only home one or two.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

messyhearts said:


> All the breeders I have been in contact with have different methods to rehome. Some solely rely on listings on breed clubs/contacts within the breed, others DO have a waiting list before a kitten is born (I was on one waiting list, I dropped out & she told me she didn't mind as she had three more waiting for a kitten from her) & others are booked but if some fall through or if they option them but change their mind they advertise those kittens out of the litter.
> 
> But I think all breeders have feelers out to know how wanted the kittens are before sending them to stud, surely? I don't think any breeder would want to be a position where they have a litter of four kittens and could only home one or two.


This is exactly my point :yesnod: Breed to better your breed, breed to keep and breed when there is demand.


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## Alansw8 (May 25, 2008)

It is better to breed when you have the demand but what do you do with the queen when there is no demand for the kittens due to other reasons ie credit crunch and she is calling regular and dont say give her ovarid as a lot of vets wont prescribe it


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Alansw8 said:


> It is better to breed when you have the demand but what do you do with the queen when there is no demand for the kittens due to other reasons ie credit crunch and she is calling regular and dont say give her ovarid as a lot of vets wont prescribe it


Neuter! If there is no demand and it's a credit crunch why make her suffer (I've heard queens constantly calling makes them ill) why would you breed just for the sake of it?


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## Alansw8 (May 25, 2008)

Its the same all over the country at the moment with a lot of breeders struggling with kittens even the established breeders and its not just for the sake of breeding as most queens will only have one litter in a 9-12 month period
and if the queen in question was an imperial champ i would be reasonably sure that neutering would not be an option to that breeder.

You just have to look on pets4homes to see how prices are reducing for kittens


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Alansw8 said:


> Its the same all over the country at the moment with a lot of breeders struggling with kittens even the established breeders and its not just for the sake of breeding as most queens will only have one litter in a 9-12 month period
> and if the queen in question was an imperial champ i would be reasonably sure that neutering would not be an option to that breeder.
> 
> You just have to look on pets4homes to see how prices are reducing for kittens


Then the only option is not to breed. Anyone with any sense would not breed in this climate unless they were completely sure that the kits had homes to go to.


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Then the only option is not to breed. Anyone with any sense would not breed in this climate unless they were completely sure that the kits had homes to go to.


I agree.

Unless you're willing to have a possible 8 kittens indefinitely!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

messyhearts said:


> I agree.
> 
> Unless you're willing to have a possible 8 kittens indefinitely!


My mother currently has 9 cats but I don't think even she would take on 8 kittens at the same time :yikes:


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## Alansw8 (May 25, 2008)

Mmmmm 8 little mona's running around Lovely i would be in heaven


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> 1 - We don't do this. Why would we when we know they're well and they attend the vets on a regular basis?
> 2 - Impossible and anyway how would you rely on them not changing their minds?3 - Agreed
> 4 - That's a difficult one, we do arrange a week off when the babies are due but after that it would be difficult given that we both work.
> 5 - Agreed
> ...


2. Have more demand than the queen could possibly have kittens?? If some drop out yu'll have back up!

6. The OP is not on about breeding her as a 'profession' or 'hobby' she just wanted her to have another litter. (well thats how i took it)

Its a bit different if you are breeding pedigree's on a regular basis. But she is planning on breeding her cross-breed just the once. So i feel in that respect that the demand should be greater than the quantity of kittens.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> 2. Have more demand than the queen could possibly have kittens?? If some drop out yu'll have back up!
> 
> 6. The OP is not on about breeding her as a 'profession' or 'hobby' she just wanted her to have another litter. (well thats how i took it)
> 
> Its a bit different if you are breeding pedigree's on a regular basis. But she is planning on breeding her cross-breed just the once. So i feel in that respect that the demand should be greater than the quantity of kittens.


But she isnt planning on just the one, it just had a litter and she wants to breed it & her other moggy/cross cat.

I had a massive waiting list before my kits were born, some people dropped out some people I took off and Id rather wait until they were older now to advertise or keep names aside as its just too early to take names before they are born, for me it was anyway.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Yes, I am. If you're breeding without knowing where the kits will eventually end up then you don't have any common sense.
> 
> A lot of breeders here will tell you the same thing. Most of them having waiting lists as long as two years.


I've been breeding for 7 yrs, and I do not operate a waiting list, or have a host of people waiting for kittens. The only people I know who will wait for 2 yrs for a particular kittens are other breeders or exhibitors looking for a specific pedigree/look. The pet buyers and lets face it thats 98% of all kitten sales would not wait 2 yrs for a kitten.

I think you will find that a lot of breeders that boast about a waiting list, don't actually have one, its all part of a sales gimmick, trying to make their kittens look more sort after than they really are.

If all pedigree breeders had kitten buyers waiting before every litter, why are there so many adverts around ?

Also even if you did have 6 people wating for a litter of 6 so technically they all had homes, if the breeder was doing their job properly, they would not place a kitten on a first come first served basis. That home/lifestyle has to be right for the individual kitten, and you can not tell what kind of temperament or personality that kitten is going to have until they are over 6 weeks old. If breeders are matching buyers to kittens on the basis of sex, colour and/or pattern before they are born, that is irresponsible imho


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I can see the point of breeders and show people wanting a certain bloodline or a kitten from a health tested or great show line. Many are willing to wait.

I however don't see any point in a pet/non-showing/non-breeding buyer going on a waiting list for any breed apart from some very, very rare breeds or truly "rare" colours. Beware the "rare" colour.

A pet buyer going on a waiting list for unborn kittens is a total nonsense. What a waste of time. What happens if the cat has only one sickly kitten, or a beautiful one that the breeder wants to keep, or some kittens die or the cat doesn't even manage to get pregnant at all.
Most breeds have kittens coming out of the woodwork. I don't see the point, of being on a waiting list. There are "good" breeders everywhere if you look around, being on a waiting list limits your choices and no breeder anywhere can guarantee the quality of the kittens they get, no matter what they say, nor how much they boast about the _quality_ of their lines. Some supposedly great lines, would have any breeder in the know running a mile.

Kittens have all different personalities, they can vary considerably in size and shape. You get runts, you get ones with poor markings/colours/coats or dodgy temperaments, even from great parents.
Much better I would say to "play the field" and go and view numerous kittens when you are ready to purchase than commit to unknown quantities.
This after all is going to be your pet, not an identical toy off a supermarket shelf that you need to order in advance.

Some like the little curious one, some like the cute faced little runt, others the little cuddlebug, the tiny shy one in the corner or the big chubby fighter etc etc.
You need to match the kitten to your personality, and how it will fit into your lifestyle, not be swayed by breeder "tactics and marketing" to try and sell you their unborn kittens.
A cat will hopefully be with you for the next 15-20 years so there is no point in feeling obliged to take this shy reserved flighty kitten if all you wanted was a laid back couch potato or vice versa, just so that some breeder can notch up a sale prior to the birth and pocket your deposit if you do change your mind.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lauren001 said:


> Kittens have all different personalities, they can vary considerably in size and shape. You get runts, you get ones with poor markings/colours/coats or dodgy temperaments, even from great parents.
> Much better I would say to "play the field" and go and view numerous kittens when you are ready to purchase than commit to unknown quantities.
> This after all is going to be your pet, not an identical toy off a supermarket shelf that you need to order in advance.
> 
> ...


Oh yes too true. One of Mistys kittens lives with 3 poodles, I would only have let him go to this house-hold, him and possibly Oscar, they all have their own little personalities.

I don't think I shall have a waiting list. I have around 3/4 enquiries per month just now, all looking for female ragdolls but I cannot see them waiting a year to be honest and they are for unregistered ones anyway.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> It's called having a waiting list


Well, perhaps if you have a breed where demand vastly outstrips supply, or if your lines are so sought after that people are willing to wait months or years for the right kitten. For most of us, those things are just a dream!

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> It's unfair to have a waiting list...is it any fairer to bring kits into this world when you don't know whether you can find homes for them?


What do you breed, sequeena?

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> I don't breed either but if I did I would be making good use of waiting lists and deposits :thumbup:


Ah, thought so!

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lizward said:


> Ah, thought so!
> 
> Liz


Ha! Sorry I am very easily amused!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> I've been breeding for 7 yrs, and I do not operate a waiting list, or have a host of people waiting for kittens. The only people I know who will wait for 2 yrs for a particular kittens are other breeders or exhibitors looking for a specific pedigree/look. The pet buyers and lets face it thats 98% of all kitten sales would not wait 2 yrs for a kitten.
> 
> I think you will find that a lot of breeders that boast about a waiting list, don't actually have one, its all part of a sales gimmick, trying to make their kittens look more sort after than they really are.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, it's good to know what a breeder thinks :yesnod:



lizward said:


> What do you breed, sequeena?
> 
> Liz


Like I said I don't breed, there's no need to have sly digs because I have an opinion


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Thanks for the info, it's good to know what a breeder thinks :yesnod:
> 
> Like I said I don't breed, there's no need to have sly digs because I have an opinion


Oh sorry, I laughed! I didn't realise it was a sly dig. I am unsure what I thought it was, I do have a very warped sense of humour. Sorry.

Ignore me. I do.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

mellowma said:


> Oh sorry, I laughed! I didn't realise it was a sly dig. I am unsure what I thought it was, I do have a very warped sense of humour. Sorry.
> 
> Ignore me. I do.


I wasn't talking to you, don't worry :thumbup:

I'm going to bow out of this now, I'm not a breeder and I have nothing else to add other than I think it's very irresponsible to not have a waiting list :yesnod:


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

sequeena said:


> I think it's very irresponsible to not have a waiting list :yesnod:


So by your reckoning 99.9% of cat and dog 'breeders' are irresponsible


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> So by your reckoning 99.9% of cat and dog 'breeders' are irresponsible


Honestly, yes. Why would you breed if you have no secure homes? I just can't get my head round it


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

No point in debating it, its a *fact *of life! Start breeding and find out for yourself


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> No point in debating it, its a *fact *of life! Start breeding and find out for yourself


I'm asking a simple question 

No thanks, I'll leave it to people who know what they're doing


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

sequeena said:


> I'm asking a simple question


Which has been answered by several people above.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Which has been answered by several people above.


I don't feel it has to be perfectly honest


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Oh well such is life  I don't think anyone can add anymore. The only way to find out for sure is to breed yourself as I have already said.

How about you come up with a solution as to how you think breeders should attract the right number of kitten buyers, whose requirements and life styles match exactly the kittens that are as yet unborn :thumbup: and that stay on the breeders waiting list for an indefinite period until that litter is actually born, bearing in mind on your basis, those people would have to be ready and waiting prior to conception, which the timing of which is also unknown, could be a day after you secure the last person on your list could be a year or more.

If you can not come up with that solution then you are just arguing for arguings sake


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Oh well such is life  I don't think anyone can add anymore. The only way to find out for sure is to breed yourself as I have already said.
> 
> How about you come up with a solution as to how you think breeders should attract the right number of kitten buyers, whose requirements and life styles match exactly the kittens that are as yet unborn :thumbup: and that stay on the breeders waiting list for an indefinite period until that litter is actually born, bearing in mind on your basis, those people would have to be ready and waiting prior to conception, which the timing of which is also unknown, could be a day after you secure the last person on your list could be a year or more.
> 
> If you can not come up with that solution then you are just arguing for arguings sake


I didn't realise I was arguing - unless asking a question these days is seen as arguing.

I assume most breeders show? If they do that then surely they will become popular by word of mouth especially if they win. Then there's websites etc and homechecks that can be done with potential buyers.

I would never breed. I would get too attached and would keep all the little kits/pups to myself 

So if you wouldn't mind answering my question instead of subtly telling me where to go


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Saikou said:


> So by your reckoning 99.9% of cat and dog 'breeders' are irresponsible


A lot of people *do* wait on a list for dogs. I will be waiting when i am ready to get a new one and i would definately wait as long it took to get the right kitten from the right breeder.

I will wait as long as it takes. I will then be safe in the knowledge i did all i possibly could to ensure i have the ''perfect'' pet!!

This is only my opinion though


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> A lot of people *do* wait on a list for dogs. I will be waiting when i am ready to get a new one and i would definately wait as long it took to get the right kitten from the right breeder.
> 
> I will wait as long as it takes. I will then be safe in the knowledge i did all i possibly could to ensure i have the ''perfect'' pet!!
> 
> This is only my opinion though


I'm waiting for a bengal kitten. I could easily go and buy one from an advert in the newspaper but I want to make sure I have a healthy kitten.

If people desperately want a certain breed they will be willing to wait :yesnod:


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Honestly, yes. Why would you breed if you have no secure homes? I just can't get my head round it


so a breeder is meant to be psychic? what happens if those owners on the waiting list they must have get the kitten and then die! should the breeder have a 2nd home for the kitten aswell as a back up?


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Oh I didn't think I was being subtle 



sequeena said:


> I assume most breeders show? If they do that then surely they will become popular by word of mouth especially if they win.


Amoungst breeders and other exhibitors. As already pointed out a small fraction of kittens go for show breed. Not the way to attract pet buyers which constitute for most people 98% of their kitten buyers



sequeena said:


> Then there's websites etc


Great, gets the people in IF your website is high enough on the search engines etc - but how do you keep those people on your list, for your yet to be conceived litter, when someone else has a litter ready to go in a couple of weeks. 



sequeena said:


> and homechecks that can be done with potential buyers


see above 

Thats me done - no more to add. You either get it or you don't :smilewinkgrin:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> so a breeder is meant to be psychic? what happens if those owners on the waiting list they must have get the kitten and then die! should the breeder have a 2nd home for the kitten aswell as a back up?


Of course a breeder isn't meant to be psychic. You should really have a waiting list that is BIGGER than any litter that will be born so you will have 'back ups'. Situations crop up where buyers have to back out but if you have no buyers whatsoever and you're bredding...Well what is the point?



Saikou said:


> Oh I didn't think I was being subtle


Well after that I stopped reading 
I think I'll just stick to waiting lists and avoid those who don't have them :thumbup:


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

sequeena said:


> I think I'll just stick to waiting lists and avoid those who don't have them :thumbup:


Of course everyone would have a waiting list in an ideal world but I can guarantee you that there aren't many, if any, breeders who do not have spare kittens at one time or another.

It's common sense really, you just can't breed to order they're live creatures.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Elmstar said:


> Of course everyone would have a waiting list in an ideal world but I can guarantee you that there aren't many, if any, breeders who do not have spare kittens at one time or another.
> 
> It's common sense really, you just can't breed to order they're live creatures.


What I'm trying to say then is - why breed? (apart from breeding to better or breeding to keep) If you have no homes why bring the kits/pups into this world?


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Elmstar said:


> It's common sense really, you just can't breed to order they're live creatures.


 Well said, shame ol Seqs doesn't get it 

When looking for a kitten, most people prefer to actually get one rather than sit on a waiting list, but each to their own.


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

sequeena said:


> What I'm trying to say then is - why breed? (apart from breeding to better or breeding to keep) If you have no homes why bring the kits/pups into this world?


I breed primarily because I enjoy it.

Any kittens we've been unable to rehome in the past are now living happily with us so they do have a home?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Well said, shame ol Seqs doesn't get it
> 
> When looking for a kitten, most people prefer to actually get one rather than sit on a waiting list, but each to their own.


Sequeena, thank you 



Elmstar said:


> I breed primarily because I enjoy it.
> 
> Any kittens we've been unable to rehome in the past are now living happily with us so they do have a home?


No you're absolutely free to do as you please, I'm glad that you keep the kittens you were unable to rehome 

But what if you had a full litter you were unable to rehome? I know everyone would say of course they would keep all this kittens but is it really possible?


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

You have to MAKE it possible! A responsibilty of a good breeder is to ensure their home bred kittens have a home for life!!! If they have no home after 13 weeks then they keep them til they have a home. If their new owners can no longer keep the cat the breeder should either bring back the kitten/cat or help the new owner find a new home. It's that simple. If the breeder is not prepared to do this then they should not be breeding It's that simple. Waiting lists as already mentioned usually only have breeders etc who are waiting for a "certain" kittens, pet owers don't care who the parents are on the whole.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> You have to MAKE it possible! A responsibilty of a good breeder is to ensure their home bred kittens have a home for life!!! If they have no home after 13 weeks then they keep them til they have a home. If their new owners can no longer keep the cat the breeder should either bring back the kitten/cat or help the new owner find a new home. It's that simple. If the breeder is not prepared to do this then they should not be breeding It's that simple. Waiting lists as already mentioned usually only have breeders etc who are waiting for a "certain" kittens, pet owers don't care who the parents are on the whole.


Great, thank you THIS is what I was looking for 

So another question for those who don't have lists...How do you go about advertising and ensuring your kits go to good homes?


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

sequeena said:


> But what if you had a full litter you were unable to rehome? I know everyone would say of course they would keep all this kittens but is it really possible?


Yes, although I may have to consider giving up breeding for a while.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Elmstar said:


> Yes, although I may have to consider giving up breeding for a while.


It would probably be a good idea or you'd have a house full to the brim


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Hey Seqs I see from your bio, that you are waiting on a kitten from your friends pregnant cat. I assume they had homes lined up for those kittens BEFORE their cat got pregnant and that all those homes are definite and secured and in sufficient numbers to cover a litter of potentially 8 or 9.

It goes without saying that any breeder would not have a litter unless they could keep that entire litter because they couldn't sell them all. What do you think breeders do with kittens that they can not sell ?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Hey Seqs I see from your bio, that you are waiting on a kitten from your friends pregnant cat. I assume they had homes lined up for those kittens BEFORE their cat got pregnant and that all those homes are definite and secured and in sufficient numbers to cover a litter of potentially 8 or 9.
> 
> It goes without saying that any breeder would not have a litter unless they could keep that entire litter because they couldn't sell them all. What do you think breeders do with kittens that they can not sell ?


Sequeena thank you, how many times do I have to say it?

My sig hasn't been updated for a few months and yes they did have homes lined up :yesnod: Before you ask the reason I backed out is because I had just suffered a miscarriage and was not in the right frame of mind to take on a cat.

I'd hope that all breeders kept the litters but unfortunately there are those that don't.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

sequeena said:


> yes they did have homes lined up :yesnod:


Before they got the cat pregnant ? Is the cat pedigree or moggie ?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> Before they got the cat pregnant ?


Yes, before the cat became pregnant.

Edit: Cat was a moggie (Oh I can see the replies to this )


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## alyssa_liss (May 4, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Yes, before the cat became pregnant.
> 
> Edit: Cat was a moggie (Oh I can see the replies to this )


think i saw this coming aswell lol


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

alyssa_liss said:


> think i saw this coming aswell lol


Don't have to be psychic to expect what replies it will get 

I am not one to advocate breeding moggies especially with all those in rescues though in his defense he is keeping one and the others are going to family and friends. He's said he's not letting it happen again and will be spaying her as soon as :yesnod:


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

You comment sort of implies it was a mistake and therefore he couldn't possibly have had homes lined up before he let his cat out to get pregnant by the local tom 

btw I have nothing against moggie cats getting pregnant, as long as like pedigree breeders they find suitable life long homes for those kittens and stand by every kitten produced, so if the owner can not keep them for any reason, they either take them back or have an active hand in finding another home for that cat/ktten.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> You comment sort of implies it was a mistake and therefore he couldn't possibly have had homes lined up before he let his cat out to get pregnant by the local tom
> 
> btw I have nothing against moggie cats getting pregnant, as long as like pedigree breeders they find suitable life long homes for those kittens and stand by every kitten produced, so if the owner can not keep them for any reason, they either take them back or have an active hand in finding another home for that cat/ktten.


No it was planned, he just didn't realise how much work into it. He just wanted a mini version of his girl and has got more than he bargained for! Good enough lesson for him I think :yesnod:


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

sequeena said:


> No it was planned


:idea: So he knew there was local tom around then ? And had 9 or more guaranteed homes lined up ? Sorry but I am not sure I believe that  After your stance on the whole waiting list thing you are hardly like to say otherwise really.

If it really was "planned", one would assume that your friend would have done a little research and would also have known how much work and dedication caring for a pregnant girl and raising a litter can be. Its not just a matter of letting your cat have sex to produce cute fluffy bundles, even if you do have 9 guaranteed homes lined up ready and waiting


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Saikou said:


> :idea: So he knew there was local tom around then ? And had 9 or more guaranteed homes lined up ? Sorry but I am not sure I believe that  After your stance on the whole waiting list thing you are hardly like to say otherwise really.
> 
> If it really was "planned", one would assume that your friend would have done a little research and would also have known how much work and dedication caring for a pregnant girl and raising a litter can be. Its not just a matter of letting your cat have sex to produce cute fluffy bundles, even if you do have 9 guaranteed homes lined up ready and waiting


Err no. You're just believing what you want to believe 

But I'm not going to explain myself seeing as it isn't even MY litter we're talking about.

You carry on what you're doing and I hope you have wonderful healthy litters, your cats look adorable :thumbup:

Thanks everyone, I learnt some new things in this thread.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

My way of thinking has changed slighty!

I am not _so_ adamant about lists although still do believe in having at least a few homes lined up! There has been some very legitimate reasons from those that don't have them.

But i stick by....be able to house and finance all the kittens that can't/don't sell. After all it was there fault they were born 

Thanks guys! See i can be changed lol!!!
xx


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

What do people imagine pedigree breeders do with kittens they can not sell then  Put them in a sack ? Wait until they get old enough and put them out the front door ? Take them to the local rescue ? What ?


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Saikou said:


> What do people imagine pedigree breeders do with kittens they can not sell then  Put them in a sack ? Wait until they get old enough and put them out the front door ? Take them to the local rescue ? What ?


I will be completely honest here............

I didn't know :blushing:

Being more honest...........

I hadn't thought that deep :blushing: :blushing:

God that sounds really bad....well it is bad considering i was so opinionated :blushing::blushing:

However, i did assume that breeders only bred where there was demand.....so i could be forgiven for not thinking about that bit!! Well i hope i can be???


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

There is a demand, otherwise no one would be able to sell any kittens, but that doesn't mean those homes have to be there prior to conception.

Just to add no pedigree litter is entered into lightly. Its not the same as letting your cat out to have sex, you have to research your pedigrees, find a suitable stud cat and back up incase choice 1 is busy when your girl comes into call who has not only a compatible pedigree but one that you hope with give you the kind of kittens you want in health temperament, colour, type pattern etc , get your queen tested for FeLV/FIV 24 hrs prior to going to stud, get her there still calling - AND only then the fun starts.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

i thought it would be obvious to all that any kittens without homes to go to stay until they have a home, or end up staying so long they stay forever


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> i thought it would be obvious to all that any kittens without homes to go to stay until they have a home, or end up staying so long they stay forever


It is now!!

I just didn't think breeders would breed unless homes were lined up, so therefore didn't need to keep any kittens!

I will be the first to admit i know nothing about the breeding/showing world of pedigree cats. But i was going on my own experience when my moggies were pregnant.
I have no problem admitting, looking back in hindsight, i was diving in blind-folded


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> I'm not a breeder and I have nothing else to add other than I think it's very irresponsible to not have a waiting list :yesnod:


Honestly, you are being totally unrealistic. Let me put it this way. the drop-out rate of people who phone you up and say they are coming to look at the kittens _right now_ is about 50% in my experience. In other words, if someone is supposedly coming _right now_ there is onyl actually a 50% chance that they will turn up.

If they are going to phone you back next week, the chances drop to perhaps 20% - maybe one in four phones you back.

And you think they are going to be reliable if they tell you _months _ in advance that they want a kitten???

Liz


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lizward said:


> Honestly, you are being totally unrealistic. Let me put it this way. the drop-out rate of people who phone you up and say they are coming to look at the kittens _right now_ is about 50% in my experience. In other words, if someone is supposedly coming _right now_ there is only actually a 50% chance that they will turn up.
> 
> If they are going to phone you back next week, the chances drop to perhaps 20% - maybe one in four phones you back.
> 
> ...


Totally agree, as being new to breeding myself I thought that I Had to have waiting list and I have totally changed my mind now, I wont have a waiting list again, Id take names if people were interested in a certain litter that I had planned for a certain time etc

But Id rather wait until the kittens were older had personality's out now, total turn around for me!


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

lizward said:


> Honestly, you are being totally unrealistic. Let me put it this way. the drop-out rate of people who phone you up and say they are coming to look at the kittens _right now_ is about 50% in my experience. In other words, if someone is supposedly coming _right now_ there is onyl actually a 50% chance that they will turn up.
> 
> If they are going to phone you back next week, the chances drop to perhaps 20% - maybe one in four phones you back.
> 
> ...


The people lined up for my kittens waited months  but as you know its completely different over here. 
Although there has been a fair few cats into shelter since, although most are feral i do believe, and some people have given up due to moving/can't afford them.

Like i said when it came to breeding cats i was pretty narrow minded when i posted on here or others for that matter!!!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> I assume most breeders show? If they do that then surely they will become popular by word of mouth especially if they win.


The overwhelming majority go as pets. In all the time I have been breeding, I have registered 85 kittens. Some I lost to FIP before they were ever rehomed and some I kept, but of the remainder, so far precisely four have been sold for showing and five for breeding (eight in total, one was show and breed). Allowing for the ones I lost and the ones I kept, that's about 1 in 9 - and since I am very relaxed about selling cats for breeidng, I suspect that most breeders' figures would show a lower percentage than that going for show / breeding. The other 8 out of 9 are pets, and I can assure you that pet owners want what they want when they want it, not in a year's time!

Liz


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

lizward said:


> Honestly, you are being totally unrealistic. Let me put it this way. the drop-out rate of people who phone you up and say they are coming to look at the kittens _right now_ is about 50% in my experience. In other words, if someone is supposedly coming _right now_ there is onyl actually a 50% chance that they will turn up.
> 
> If they are going to phone you back next week, the chances drop to perhaps 20% - maybe one in four phones you back.
> 
> ...


It can and does happen, or has everyone on here who told me they have waiting lists lied?

You are right in what you say but I still think waiting lists are a good idea :yesnod:


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> What I'm trying to say then is - why breed? (apart from breeding to better or breeding to keep) If you have no homes why bring the kits/pups into this world?


Because, guess what, you can't actually specify the number of kittens you want in a litter. If I decide I want to breed a black shaded silver boy to keep, I might not get one, you know? In fact, in a total of 16 kittens (three litters) over the last couple of years I got precisely one black shaded silver boy, and he was in the third litter.

Furthermore, if you have a stud cat he has to be kept happy and if you can't get outside work for him that means breeding one of your own girls.

liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> It can and does happen, or has everyone on here who told me they have waiting lists lied?


I suspect it's more likely to be a matter of very novice breeders or breeders with very popular show lines.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> But what if you had a full litter you were unable to rehome?


You reduce the price until they DO go. I assure you they DO go in the end if the price goes low enough!

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Saikou said:


> What do people imagine pedigree breeders do with kittens they can not sell then  Put them in a sack ? Wait until they get old enough and put them out the front door ? Take them to the local rescue ? What ?


Perhaps they think we have deals with the local Chinese takeaway


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

lizward said:


> You reduce the price until they DO go. I assure you they DO go in the end if the price goes low enough!
> 
> Liz


Does that not raise the questionability of the homes the kits will go to? I'm not trying to say you don't make sure they go to good homes by the way.



lizward said:


> Perhaps they think we have deals with the local Chinese takeaway


Only if you're selling chicken chow mein and crispy beef


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Does that not raise the questionability of the homes the kits will go to? I'm not trying to say you don't make sure they go to good homes by the way.


I kind of agree with that to a certain extent and have so far refused to reduce the prices of my kittens too much. I know that doesn't guarantee the owner will be more responsible but I guess it's just a way of trying to ensure that.

We actually turned down someone who wanted two of our kittens because we knew them and also knew they wouldn't be suitable.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Elmstar said:


> I kind of agree with that to a certain extent and have so far refused to reduce the prices of my kittens too much. I know that doesn't guarantee the owner will be more responsible but I guess it's just a way of trying to ensure that.
> 
> We actually turned down someone who wanted two of our kittens because we knew them and also knew they wouldn't be suitable.


:yesnod: I know there are a lot of genuine people out there who cannot afford the full price of a pedigree cat but it makes you wonder if they are able to afford everything that comes with owning the breed.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

just because people can struggle to find £400 odd doesn't mean they can't afford to look after their cats. they may have to save it up.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> just because people can struggle to find £400 odd doesn't mean they can't afford to look after their cats. they may have to save it up.


Like I said, there are genuine people out there. I myself am having to save up for a cat. Unless you're loaded I don't think anyone has that sort of cash lying around 

This is part of the reason why I like waiting lists, you can pay a deposit and then have time to save up the rest :thumbup: And insurance is a godsend :yesnod:


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> just because people can struggle to find £400 odd doesn't mean they can't afford to look after their cats. they may have to save it up.


Now this i 100% agree with. Some times people forget that others do not have £££'s sitting in the bank!! But yet can afford thier pets....on a weekly or monthly basis. Lets face it no breeder will do monthly/weekly installments!!

My friend is one of these people. She waited to get her dog because she had to save. But she can afford her multiple pets, including great nutritrion, insurance etc


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Some Breeders will 

Yes I can easily pay my insurance DD each month for them. I buy a big job lot of litter each month & their wet food and I buy their raw food as and when. These payments are easily met I know when they're coming. But yep, don't make you a bad owner if you ain't got £400 knocking about.

If only 

I also have never paid a deposit for my cats, moggie or pedigree.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> Some Breeders will
> 
> Yes I can easily pay my insurance DD each month for them. I buy a big job lot of litter each month & their wet food and I buy their raw food as and when. These payments are easily met I know when they're coming. But yep, don't make you a bad owner if you ain't got £400 knocking about.
> 
> ...


Would you be willing to accept a deposit if someone was unable to give you the full amount straight away?


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Would you be willing to accept a deposit if someone was unable to give you the full amount straight away?


We wouldn't mind how someone paid if they were the right person for the cat. We'd hold the cat until they'd paid obviously but that would be a pleasure


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Would you be willing to accept a deposit if someone was unable to give you the full amount straight away?


I don't breed so I can't comment really. However, I would only let someone pay a bit at a time if I knew them etc... I wouldn't trust a stranger enough. Though prehaps the buyer could give the breeder post dated cheques, but then would I trust them enough not to bounce? No!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Does that not raise the questionability of the homes the kits will go to?


No - it just means they come into the price range of those who would otherwise have bought moggies.

Liz


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I wonder Sequeena, and it is a wonder, but how many people would actually put down a deposit on a cat that isn't even concieved let alone born. I did have a contact list for Minnii's litter (not a waiting list) but people that had expressed a strong interest and that I liked (total of 6). Minnii only had 2 kittens. Now if all six of those had had to put a deposit down, I believe I would have lost a few of those 'customers' even before conception let alone birth. I refused to take a deposit before the kittens were a few weeks old, as a) you can't guarentee that the kittens will all survive, b) that the colours are the colours the customers want, c) that the kittens personalites are right for each customer. Also as a breeder had one of the kittens been show quality I might have wanted to keep it - then what? I felt guilty enpough that Minnii only produced 2 kittens when 6 people were waiting, but then if I had kept one as well? I found that the other 4 people very quickly found other cats and so wouldn't have waited for Minnii's next litter (which would have been a year later), hence blowing the idea of a waiting list out of the water. As cats are not always able to produce on order (Minnii went to stud 3 times before concieving) most people are only willing to wait a short time, and then look elsewhere. In an ideal world where you could guarentee the quality, sex, colour and number of kittens in a litter, where the queen comes into call on the day you desire and concieves immediately then maybe, just maybe, a waiting list would work as you could match each customer to each litter. For example I've been waiting on a red or tortie show/breed quality girl. I am on my mentors 'waiting list', first litter was just 1 boy that died at 3 days, 2 litter of 5 had no show quality kitts, 3rd litter didn't get conceived so to speak, 4th litter is due end of Aug and there is no guarentee that my girl will be in it. However, depsite waiting for nearly a year, I have chosen these lines and this breeder and want one of these girls should it ever emerge, whenever that may be. However, doesn't stop me looking around for others too. Most people who want a kitten want it now, not in 2 years time. Hence waiting lists don't always work. And deposits on a kitten that might not even be born for 2/3 years are pointless - the breeder might even give up breeding in that time!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

spid said:


> I wonder Sequeena, and it is a wonder, but how many people would actually put down a deposit on a cat that isn't even concieved let alone born. I did have a contact list for Minnii's litter (not a waiting list) but people that had expressed a strong interest and that I liked (total of 6). Minnii only had 2 kittens. Now if all six of those had had to put a deposit down, I believe I would have lost a few of those 'customers' even before conception let alone birth. I refused to take a deposit before the kittens were a few weeks old, as a) you can't guarentee that the kittens will all survive, b) that the colours are the colours the customers want, c) that the kittens personalites are right for each customer. Also as a breeder had one of the kittens been show quality I might have wanted to keep it - then what? I felt guilty enpough that Minnii only produced 2 kittens when 6 people were waiting, but then if I had kept one as well? I found that the other 4 people very quickly found other cats and so wouldn't have waited for Minnii's next litter (which would have been a year later), hence blowing the idea of a waiting list out of the water. As cats are not always able to produce on order (Minnii went to stud 3 times before concieving) most people are only willing to wait a short time, and then look elsewhere. In an ideal world where you could guarentee the quality, sex, colour and number of kittens in a litter, where the queen comes into call on the day you desire and concieves immediately then maybe, just maybe, a waiting list would work as you could match each customer to each litter. For example I've been waiting on a red or tortie show/breed quality girl. I am on my mentors 'waiting list', first litter was just 1 boy that died at 3 days, 2 litter of 5 had no show quality kitts, 3rd litter didn't get conceived so to speak, 4th litter is due end of Aug and there is no guarentee that my girl will be in it. However, depsite waiting for nearly a year, I have chosen these lines and this breeder and want one of these girls should it ever emerge, whenever that may be. However, doesn't stop me looking around for others too. Most people who want a kitten want it now, not in 2 years time. Hence waiting lists don't always work. And deposits on a kitten that might not even be born for 2/3 years are pointless - the breeder might even give up breeding in that time!


That's a point, perhaps a deposit after the kittens are born as a way of securing the kitten? Surely those people who do that won't then run off after investing some money?

I know breeders have problems with people who say they will come to see the kit or yes they are definitely going to buy one. It's a let down and must be so annoying for the breeders. Perhaps this would help reduce the amount of people who don't have any intentions of following through?

Edit: It's a shame that we live in a world where we 'want it now'. I am more than willing to wait for the perfect healthy kit though every kitten I come across I'm dying to have it. This is how BYB make all their money because they have a constant supply of kittens on the go :nonod:


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

spid said:


> I wonder Sequeena, and it is a wonder, but how many people would actually put down a deposit on a cat that isn't even concieved let alone born. I did have a contact list for Minnii's litter (not a waiting list) but people that had expressed a strong interest and that I liked (total of 6). Minnii only had 2 kittens. Now if all six of those had had to put a deposit down, I believe I would have lost a few of those 'customers' even before conception let alone birth. I refused to take a deposit before the kittens were a few weeks old, as a) you can't guarentee that the kittens will all survive, b) that the colours are the colours the customers want, c) that the kittens personalites are right for each customer. Also as a breeder had one of the kittens been show quality I might have wanted to keep it - then what? I felt guilty enpough that Minnii only produced 2 kittens when 6 people were waiting, but then if I had kept one as well? I found that the other 4 people very quickly found other cats and so wouldn't have waited for Minnii's next litter (which would have been a year later), hence blowing the idea of a waiting list out of the water. As cats are not always able to produce on order (Minnii went to stud 3 times before concieving) most people are only willing to wait a short time, and then look elsewhere. In an ideal world where you could guarentee the quality, sex, colour and number of kittens in a litter, where the queen comes into call on the day you desire and concieves immediately then maybe, just maybe, a waiting list would work as you could match each customer to each litter. For example I've been waiting on a red or tortie show/breed quality girl. I am on my mentors 'waiting list', first litter was just 1 boy that died at 3 days, 2 litter of 5 had no show quality kitts, 3rd litter didn't get conceived so to speak, 4th litter is due end of Aug and there is no guarentee that my girl will be in it. However, depsite waiting for nearly a year, I have chosen these lines and this breeder and want one of these girls should it ever emerge, whenever that may be. However, doesn't stop me looking around for others too. Most people who want a kitten want it now, not in 2 years time. Hence waiting lists don't always work. And deposits on a kitten that might not even be born for 2/3 years are pointless - the breeder might even give up breeding in that time!


 well said


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

spid said:


> I wonder Sequeena, and it is a wonder, but how many people would actually put down a deposit on a cat that isn't even concieved let alone born. I did have a contact list for Minnii's litter (not a waiting list) but people that had expressed a strong interest and that I liked (total of 6). Minnii only had 2 kittens. Now if all six of those had had to put a deposit down, I believe I would have lost a few of those 'customers' even before conception let alone birth. I refused to take a deposit before the kittens were a few weeks old, as a) you can't guarentee that the kittens will all survive, b) that the colours are the colours the customers want, c) that the kittens personalites are right for each customer. Also as a breeder had one of the kittens been show quality I might have wanted to keep it - then what? I felt guilty enpough that Minnii only produced 2 kittens when 6 people were waiting, but then if I had kept one as well? I found that the other 4 people very quickly found other cats and so wouldn't have waited for Minnii's next litter (which would have been a year later), hence blowing the idea of a waiting list out of the water. As cats are not always able to produce on order (Minnii went to stud 3 times before concieving) most people are only willing to wait a short time, and then look elsewhere. In an ideal world where you could guarentee the quality, sex, colour and number of kittens in a litter, where the queen comes into call on the day you desire and concieves immediately then maybe, just maybe, a waiting list would work as you could match each customer to each litter. For example I've been waiting on a red or tortie show/breed quality girl. I am on my mentors 'waiting list', first litter was just 1 boy that died at 3 days, 2 litter of 5 had no show quality kitts, 3rd litter didn't get conceived so to speak, 4th litter is due end of Aug and there is no guarentee that my girl will be in it. However, depsite waiting for nearly a year, I have chosen these lines and this breeder and want one of these girls should it ever emerge, whenever that may be. However, doesn't stop me looking around for others too. Most people who want a kitten want it now, not in 2 years time. Hence waiting lists don't always work. And deposits on a kitten that might not even be born for 2/3 years are pointless - the breeder might even give up breeding in that time!


Very good point! I like that idea about a contact list!


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

spid said:


> I wonder Sequeena, and it is a wonder, but how many people would actually put down a deposit on a cat that isn't even concieved let alone born. I did have a contact list for Minnii's litter (not a waiting list) but people that had expressed a strong interest and that I liked (total of 6). Minnii only had 2 kittens. Now if all six of those had had to put a deposit down, I believe I would have lost a few of those 'customers' even before conception let alone birth. I refused to take a deposit before the kittens were a few weeks old, as a) you can't guarentee that the kittens will all survive, b) that the colours are the colours the customers want, c) that the kittens personalites are right for each customer. Also as a breeder had one of the kittens been show quality I might have wanted to keep it - then what? I felt guilty enpough that Minnii only produced 2 kittens when 6 people were waiting, but then if I had kept one as well? I found that the other 4 people very quickly found other cats and so wouldn't have waited for Minnii's next litter (which would have been a year later), hence blowing the idea of a waiting list out of the water. As cats are not always able to produce on order (Minnii went to stud 3 times before concieving) most people are only willing to wait a short time, and then look elsewhere. In an ideal world where you could guarentee the quality, sex, colour and number of kittens in a litter, where the queen comes into call on the day you desire and concieves immediately then maybe, just maybe, a waiting list would work as you could match each customer to each litter. For example I've been waiting on a red or tortie show/breed quality girl. I am on my mentors 'waiting list', first litter was just 1 boy that died at 3 days, 2 litter of 5 had no show quality kitts, 3rd litter didn't get conceived so to speak, 4th litter is due end of Aug and there is no guarentee that my girl will be in it. However, depsite waiting for nearly a year, I have chosen these lines and this breeder and want one of these girls should it ever emerge, whenever that may be. However, doesn't stop me looking around for others too. Most people who want a kitten want it now, not in 2 years time. Hence waiting lists don't always work. And deposits on a kitten that might not even be born for 2/3 years are pointless - the breeder might even give up breeding in that time!


I was on a waiting list. The list was only formulated after it was confirmed that the queen was expecting & it was a litter advertised on pretty much every free site & paid site I came across. She had about five people on the list when I went to see her & I was first in line for a kitten with potential but second overall. This was four weeks before they were due. I never paid a deposit but I was happy to wait & see. I was the only one who wanted a show kitten so they were all pet homes & she worked on this basis for all her litters in the past 20 years. I had to turn my place down in her list as I had my fingers in more than one pie & she graciously accepted it as she told me three other people were after me in line for a kitten. I was still on that list when the kittens were three weeks old. Never seen them, the colours were not confirmed & no one had decided who was getting which kitten. No money exchanged hands & no contracts were signed. It was simply a list of people interested in watching that litter.

I don't know about others, if it wasn't for the fact I was waiting with baited breath as to whether any of these kittys had any potential, I would have really enjoyed waiting & seeing them grow up over thirteen weeks rather than stumbling on them at a later age.

All breeders are different but I don't think waiting lists are that daft an idea. They clearly worked for this breeder & when I tried to contact her before about a kitten she was always booked up for litters that were around.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I am sorry if this comes across as cynical, but I do not believe any breeder who says they have a waiting list for an entire litter. Its a sales gimmick, same as the excuse that they have a couple of breeder friends after the kitten that you are interested in, to make the poor thing sound well sort after, but he/she always comes available in the end. I have heard of that sales technique used countless times.

You may end up with a list of one or two people looking for something specific, but unless every litter has a high proportion of show quality kittens or you are "entires R us" with lines that are hard to come by, thats about it.

I am sure every genuine breeder would love a waiting list of eager kitten buyers willing to wait years for their ideal kitten without any guarantee of getting what they want, but most of us live in the real world.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> Now this i 100% agree with. Some times people forget that others do not have £££'s sitting in the bank!! But yet can afford thier pets....on a weekly or monthly basis. Lets face it no breeder will do monthly/weekly installments!!
> 
> My friend is one of these people. She waited to get her dog because she had to save. But she can afford her multiple pets, including great nutritrion, insurance etc


Thats true I had to save from birthdays and christmas's, just because you cant afford the £300/400 right away doesnt mean you wont make great kit parents!



spid said:


> I wonder Sequeena, and it is a wonder, but how many people would actually put down a deposit on a cat that isn't even concieved let alone born. I did have a contact list for Minnii's litter (not a waiting list) but people that had expressed a strong interest and that I liked (total of 6). Minnii only had 2 kittens. Now if all six of those had had to put a deposit down, I believe I would have lost a few of those 'customers' even before conception let alone birth. I refused to take a deposit before the kittens were a few weeks old, as a) you can't guarentee that the kittens will all survive, b) that the colours are the colours the customers want, c) that the kittens personalites are right for each customer. Also as a breeder had one of the kittens been show quality I might have wanted to keep it - then what? I felt guilty enpough that Minnii only produced 2 kittens when 6 people were waiting, but then if I had kept one as well? I found that the other 4 people very quickly found other cats and so wouldn't have waited for Minnii's next litter (which would have been a year later), hence blowing the idea of a waiting list out of the water. As cats are not always able to produce on order (Minnii went to stud 3 times before concieving) most people are only willing to wait a short time, and then look elsewhere. In an ideal world where you could guarentee the quality, sex, colour and number of kittens in a litter, where the queen comes into call on the day you desire and concieves immediately then maybe, just maybe, a waiting list would work as you could match each customer to each litter. For example I've been waiting on a red or tortie show/breed quality girl. I am on my mentors 'waiting list', first litter was just 1 boy that died at 3 days, 2 litter of 5 had no show quality kitts, 3rd litter didn't get conceived so to speak, 4th litter is due end of Aug and there is no guarentee that my girl will be in it. However, depsite waiting for nearly a year, I have chosen these lines and this breeder and want one of these girls should it ever emerge, whenever that may be. However, doesn't stop me looking around for others too. Most people who want a kitten want it now, not in 2 years time. Hence waiting lists don't always work. And deposits on a kitten that might not even be born for 2/3 years are pointless - the breeder might even give up breeding in that time!


The amount of people that said to me 'Ill send a deposit now!' was crazy I was like 'you dont know me, say this is a scam?! you havent seen the kittens yet how do you know if your like them?!'

I do keep peoples names if I am contacted through my website as some of them say arent looking to ge a cat for another year etc

A few breeders that I have seen take deposits Before the cats are born and say 'if we dont get your expected colour your get your money back'!!! That is crazy in my mind!!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Saikou said:


> "entires R us" with lines that are hard to come by


 I like it - now such an outfit really COULD make money out of breeding. Of course, they might have a bit of difficulty getting those lines to start with 

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I was on a waiting list for a greeding female. It was sooooo exciting, I knew the dates the matings had taken place, I knew how many days pregnant the girl was I knew when she went into labour, I knoew about the all the kittens as they came along and she had 6 boys!


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

I'd certainly put myself on a waiting list for an active cat if I thought the mating would help to improve our lines but for a pet I'd just get the best available at the time I wanted it.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

sequeena said:


> That's a point, perhaps a deposit after the kittens are born as a way of securing the kitten? Surely those people who do that won't then run off after investing some money?
> 
> I know breeders have problems with people who say they will come to see the kit or yes they are definitely going to buy one. It's a let down and must be so annoying for the breeders. Perhaps this would help reduce the amount of people who don't have any intentions of following through?
> 
> Edit: It's a shame that we live in a world where we 'want it now'. I am more than willing to wait for the perfect healthy kit though every kitten I come across I'm dying to have it. This is how BYB make all their money because they have a constant supply of kittens on the go :nonod:


But isn't that then going against what you said before? Isn't the main thrust of this thread and the discussion on it now about the fact that you believe that no kittens should even be conceived UNLESS they have home lined up for them? Or are we gradualy changing your mind?

I *do* take a deposit for my kittens (as do most pedigree breeders) a) once the owners have been to visit and like what they see and chosen one b) once the kittens are AT LEAST 5 weeks old and c) if I like the new owners. And yes once that deposit is paid you are right to assume that they won't disaapear on you -though I know a breeder who had this happen to her recently - customer paid the non-refundable despoit and then changed her mind - she did have the cheek to ask for the deposit back (it was rather low - and the breeder has now decided to up her deposit amount) but it wasn't given! This is the reason for deposits, to make the customer think about whether they really want that cat and do they want it enough to pay a non-refundable deposit.

Saikou - I agree, I was very lucky to have 6 people on my contact list, but most of those had fingers in other pies I beleive. I contacted one guy who had sounded so sincere etc on the phone to tell him Minnii had only had two kittens, and he wasn't bothered as he had been given two moggy kittens out of the blue a couple of weeks before. Hadn't bothered to tell me. That's why I call it a contact list and I tell people who contact me that I don't have a waiting list as such just a list of people I will contact when Minnii has kittens - no obligation on either side - I don't want people to feel forced to buy my kittens as they were on my list, just as becasue they are on my list doesn't force me to sell to them. Matching kitten to new owner is much more important than having a long list of customers waiting in the wings.

As an aside, I have been investigating the Somali world and it is amazing how many breeders have waiting lists for the next 2 -3 litters. I am a little sceptical, however there aren't that many breeders so I suppose it is possible, but I've popped myself on each list anyway and said let me know if and when and I'll keep looking. Just covering bases. I imagine I could be inundated with offers of a kitten in the next 3 months! lol!!!!!!!!


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I lost the plot/subject of this thread somewhere around pages 5/6/7 !


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

mellowma said:


> I lost the plot/subject of this thread somewhere around pages 5/6/7 !


That's the beauty of threads! They can evolve so quickly. I don't believe the OP is even planning on breeding anymore. That's why it's moved only an entirely new subject!


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

Dozymoo said:


> That's the beauty of threads! They can evolve so quickly. I don't believe the OP is even planning on breeding anymore. That's why it's moved only an entirely new subject!


Oh thanks. 

So are we still on waiting lists or the current economic climate or something else completely ?

:wink5:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I _believe_ we are still on waiting lists and deposits - but it might have run it's course now.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I think the point has been made - hopefully :yesnod: I suppose it depends on whether anyone else has any sweeping, inaccurate and ignorant statements to make ut:


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

I have read this thread with great interest! LOL

Not much point me adding my "two pennith worth" now


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> I have read this thread with great interest! LOL
> 
> Not much point me adding my "two pennith worth" now


Oh go on, just for the crack!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

spid said:


> Oh go on, just for the crack!


LOL spid hunni - no point. I will only get attacked as per usual!!! 
Hence the reason i dont post on here much anymore. I dont have time for the cattiness, nor can i be bothered.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

and there's no cattiness on other forums? there is BIG time!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> and there's no cattiness on other forums? there is BIG time!


i dunno vicki - i have only used this one and PC - and there is no cattiness there


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

That's your opinion, the place is full of little groups, if you're face don't fit then you're f**ked!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> That's your opinion, the place is full of little groups, if you're face don't fit then you're f**ked!


but surely thats true of any forum?


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

yes, but i don't notice it much here. but anyways, it's off topic so i won't say anymore.


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I thought we had moved onto *catteries *but I see it is *cattiness*!

Oh goody, now I understand where we are: = People

Yes, people are funny old buggers are they not ?

Different personalities, attitudes, ways of life, views of life, sense of humours which are all different, hence most forums at times can be very interesting, to say the least. Throw in some truly loved kittens and cats and MEOW!

I _could_ link you to a forum where if your face doesn't fit they chew you up spit you out and your left literally wondering WTF**k! 

That's life. I think. Possibly.

From my point of view only, obviously. :wink5:


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

mellowma said:


> I _could_ link you to a forum where if your face doesn't fit they chew you up spit you out and your left literally wondering WTF**k!


Oooh, please do  (PM me if you like!)

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lizward said:


> Oooh, please do  (PM me if you like!)
> 
> Liz


:nonod: Liz, I cannot subject you to that experience. It's not a pet forum it is a forum for talking about those other very important beings in some peoples lives. Children! 

If you_ really _want to be subjected to it then PM me.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

ah no, I have no children 

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

lizward said:


> ah no, I have no children
> 
> Liz


Relatives ? Parent, MIL ? FIL ? OH ? It covers all family, a right good b^tchfest! If you like that. I have to admit it can be amusing to watch front the sidelines.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

pm me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I want to watch too! PM me - or put a link up!


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## kidsandcats (Jul 19, 2009)

Hi
I'm a weight watchers member and post on their forum. There are some right slanging matches on there! They also get hackers who pose as recognised members and start arguments, it's so funny to read!!
Sharon
x


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

You get those types on all boards, they must have no lives. Most of those essessers are members of more than one board too and they run from one to the other essessing on one, then going on another and telling how badly treated they were on the other board, enciting a bit of rivalry. Its very sad really.


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