# Scratching Dog (sarcoptic mange?)



## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

Just recently went to the vets, well 2 weeks ago. My dog had been scratching and licking/biting his paws again. Yes its not the first time. The vet had a brief look at him, and i mean brief... and he was given a Dexafort injection as well as prednisolone tablets and a dose of stronghold. I had to come back for a revist two weeks later for a dexadreason injection and more prednisolone tablets. 

As i said, this is not the only time ive taken him to the vets for him scratching. This is the third time ive taken him to the vets for the same problem. The very first time my dog had been scratching behind his legs. The vet had a visual look and he said it looked like he had fox mange. The second time my dog had been scartching his ears. I asked if he had fox mange again and he said that it was a bit more complicated then that because now he had an ear infection from the scratching. On this last occassion when i asked him what was wrong with him... his words were and i quote... "I don't know what he's got". You would think that he would want to find out exactly what it is he has... after all it's now the third time hes been treated for some sort of skin problem.

It seems as if though he is more than happy for me to come back every couple of months and put money in his pocket rather than actually giving me a proper diagnosis. He really isnt fussed about the welfare of my dog. Im in and im pushed out the vets in a matter of minutes. 

Im not going to say the treatments doesnt work because it does, but within a matter of weeks or months i find my dog scratching again. It;s as if the treatment is only masking the problem, and then it comes back.

im writing this post because its now been 4 weeks since i went to the vets to have him treated, and hes started scratching again. 

Want to know what you guys think. My sister suggests i go resgister with a new vet. He hasnt bothered to take a skin scraping, it's not even come up in conversation.

If it is sarcoptic manage, why does he seem to be getting it back all the time. I know there is fox's where i walk him... but ive asked other dog walkers if there dog has picked it up and they havent. If it is sarcoptic mange then hes had it three times in the last year...

Does my dog have to be in direct contact with the fox to get manage? Is the source of the problem is my house? Is it infested? Any suggestions would be great. Sorry for the long post guys...


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Change your vet. There's got to be a better one! 

You need proper investigation of the cause. Skin scrapings examined under a microscope is the norm for detecting mange I believe. It could be mange, food allergy, anything. The steroids could well just be masking an underlying problem.

If it's mainly paws and ears affected, I'd be suprised if mange is the cause, it's often more whole-body in the cases I've seen (in pictures, no direct experience).

What sort of dog is it? Some are prone to skin complaints. Changing the food to raw, burns, high quality cereal-free might help.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Burrowzig said:


> What sort of dog is it? Some are prone to skin complaints. Changing the food to raw, burns, high quality cereal-free might help.


My thoughts exactly


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

He is a staffy. Im currently feeding him wainwright's dry food and he also has there wet food.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Are you feeding the salmon and potato or something with rice?


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

Hes currently on the salmon and potato, hes also had the duck and rice. Could it be the food hes on? The bowl is always licked clean. Is wainwrights no good?


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Its possible its the cereal in the food. The salmon and potato should be OK but it may be the other. It was in my girls case. Itchy red feet, armpits and face. I switched to raw and she cleared up in about 6 weeks without any meds. You don't have to go raw but I would suggest at least try a CEREAL FREE kibble as a starting point

If its a yeast problem, which sounds possible, then it can also come out int the ears and make them sore, gunky and smelly


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

My Springer always itched when she was on dry food. I was forever explaining to people she hadn't got fleas.
The vet doesn't sound very good. I would always suggest a change of food. Hope you get it sorted.


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

Would it be possible to give him a Piriton and see if it eases? They may not be a first idea but I found them very helpful. As said I would consider a fresh set of eyes and another opinion and ask for blood tests/ skin scrape to determine more. It is a long process in some cases. If fleas have been ruled out, you have to consider such allergies as food, dust mites, change of any household things recently you use which may cause a flare up, grass/pollen which my dog is already showing signs of the last two days. When my dogs skin complaint developed the vet gave steriods as a means to ease the situation and I was thankful as it did in the short run but things soon came back worse once the course run out. He gets intense scratching/biting on his paws/under arms/tummy due to the grass in summer/spring months but the piriton keeps it at bay. We also found working through various food brands to determine what suited helped. Good luck!


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

Maybe ill try switching food then. I was under the assumption that wainwrights was good. Any reccomedtions on cereal free kibble


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Wainwrights may very well be good, I know a lot use it but if your dog cannot tolerate cereals then obviously is not good for your particular dog. I know if I put my girl on something with cereal, no matter how 'good' or 'expensive' it is, then her skin will flare up


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

How will i be sure that his skin is flaring up due to what he is eating. As i said in my post on the three occassions ive been to the vet no scrapping was taken. So im guessing the only way to rule out that it isnt mange and is in fact a food allergy is for this to be done. I think i will have to change vets.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

kevinp1986 said:


> Just recently went to the vets, well 2 weeks ago. My dog had been scratching and licking/biting his paws again. Yes its not the first time. The vet had a brief look at him, and i mean brief... and he was given a Dexafort injection as well as prednisolone tablets and a dose of stronghold. I had to come back for a revist two weeks later for a dexadreason injection and more prednisolone tablets.
> 
> As i said, this is not the only time ive taken him to the vets for him scratching. This is the third time ive taken him to the vets for the same problem. The very first time my dog had been scratching behind his legs. The vet had a visual look and he said it looked like he had fox mange. The second time my dog had been scartching his ears. I asked if he had fox mange again and he said that it was a bit more complicated then that because now he had an ear infection from the scratching. On this last occassion when i asked him what was wrong with him... his words were and i quote... "I don't know what he's got". You would think that he would want to find out exactly what it is he has... after all it's now the third time hes been treated for some sort of skin problem.
> 
> ...


My dog started scratching when he was 16 weeks old and the vet we had then diagnosed food allergies (this was from the first visit) and asked was he insured and I said no as I was still looking into who to go with for insurance so she said I couldn't insure him now as she had diagnosed allergies. They put him on antibiotics and steroids which helped at first.

I changed vets as I wasn't happy with the first vets. The second vet just carried on treating him for food allergy and giving him steroids and sometimes antibiotics. The scratching was getting more intense and it was mostly his ears that he scratched on the outside and made big sores on them that bled when he scratched and as he's a Bichon it looked terrible. He went on like this for 18 months or so and the scratching was getting worse. His ears were very thick and crusty around the edges. He was wearing a buster collar nearly 24 hrs a day which he hated. As soon as I removed it he would scratch and the steroids were no longer helping.

I went to the vets and he said we had three options. A life on steroids but that wasn't really an option as they weren't working.  Skin allergy testing which I think was around £500 and even if he was allergic to things there were injections which didn't work most of the time from what I had heard. The next option was being put to sleep. I asked if there wasn't anything else we could try as we had tried Atopica but that didn't work either. He thought for a minute and then went out of the room and came back and then said bring him in tomorrow and we will do an ear scrape and blood test for sarcoptes.

They told me the same day that they hadn't found anything on the ear scrape but the blood test took two weeks. Two weeks later the receptionist rang me and said he had tested positive for sarcoptic mange. She said it was good news as it was easily treated with Stronghold. They gave me a 3 vial pack of Stronghold which he had to have on the back of his neck every two weeks for 6 weeks and then if he was still scratching to ring up and they would give me another pack. He was still scratching a bit so I needed another pack. It did the trick though and cured the mange and he's been fine ever since and this was five years ago nearly.

Try rubbing your thumb and first finger on the edge of his ears and see if his back leg starts doing a scratching movement as this is usually a good indication of sarcoptes. Think it's called the Pinner Pedular reflex or something like that.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

kevinp1986 said:


> Maybe ill try switching food then. I was under the assumption that wainwrights was good. Any reccomedtions on cereal free kibble


Wainwrights is a good food. But if your dog can't tolerate it it's no good.

My jrt x used to itch like hell before I changed him onto Wainwrights wet. Any kibble and he was straight off.

However, now he has skinners and Wainwrights Wet or Arden Grange wet and he's fine. I find that Bionic Biotics works wonders as well.

He flared up the other night after a walk, I think there was something in a ditch he'd paddled in. I gave him half a piriton and it had stopped within minutes.

Firstly I'd take him to another vet for a second opinion, just to be 100% sure.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

The WW salmon and potato does have some cereal. May be take what you have left and ask to swop it for their "Advance" sensitive which is salmon and potato but better ingredients. Sorghum, Whole Grain Barley are both cereals in the WW which arent present in the Advance. May be change that and keep the wet going or possibly stop the wet for a while as there is a small amount of rice in it.

Hope this helps

ADVANCE
Fresh Salmon (min. 42%), Potato, Potato Protein, Sugar Beet Pulp, Pea Starch, Sunflower Oil, Minerals, Salmon Oil, Salmon Digest, Brewers Yeast, Sodium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Methionine, Yucca Extract, Marigold Meal, L-Carnitine, Beta Carotene. Total Salmon min. 42%.
Typical Analysis: 
Moisture 13%, Protein 83%, Oils and Fats 1%, Fibre 2%, Ash 1%.

WW
Ingredient(s): 
Salmon Protein (min. 23%), Potato (min. 21%), Sorghum, Whole Grain Barley (min. 10%), Atlantic Fish Meal, Whole Linseed (min. 4%), Sugar Beet Pulp (min. 5%), Sunflower Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Alfalfa, Natural Seawood (min. 0.5%), Sodium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Methionine, Marigold Extract, Yucca Extract, Rosemary Extract.
Typical Analysis: 
Moisture 8%, Protein 21%, Oils and Fats 10%, Fibre 3.5%, Ash 7.2%, Vitamin A 12000iu/kg, Vitamin D3 1200iu/kg, Vitamin E (a-tocopherol), 600iu/kg, Copper (Cupric Sulphate) 12mg/kg. Contains Tocopherol rich extracts of natural origin. Vitamin E and C as EC permitted antioxidant. No added colourants, flavourings or preservatives.


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

Jazzy said:


> Try rubbing your thumb and first finger on the edge of his ears and see if his back leg starts doing a scratching movement as this is usually a good indication of sarcoptes. Think it's called the Pinner Pedular reflex or something like that.


It's the pinna (which is the name for the part of the ear you rub) pedal (foot) reflex. Most dogs with scabies will show the reflex and not many that don't have it will. It's nice and easy for you to try yourself.
Sarcoptes isn't always that easy to find on a skin scrape but I would definitely be asking for them to do one anyway, probably before I thought about changing the feed. 
BTW the prednisone you were given last time help with itching (so are good for allergic dermatitis) but pretty much give any mites a free rein to reproduce so not great if your dog has scabies!! Were you given the steroids before or after a possible mange diagnosis? To treat scabies you can use shampoos and acaricidal dips. Drugs containing selamectin (think that may be in stronghold??) which i think needs to be 2 treatments about 2 weeks apart but don't quote me on that!!


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

Jazzy said:


> My dog started scratching when he was 16 weeks old and the vet we had then diagnosed food allergies (this was from the first visit) and asked was he insured and I said no as I was still looking into who to go with for insurance so she said I couldn't insure him now as she had diagnosed allergies. They put him on antibiotics and steroids which helped at first.
> 
> I changed vets as I wasn't happy with the first vets. The second vet just carried on treating him for food allergy and giving him steroids and sometimes antibiotics. The scratching was getting more intense and it was mostly his ears that he scratched on the outside and made big sores on them that bled when he scratched and as he's a Bichon it looked terrible. He went on like this for 18 months or so and the scratching was getting worse. His ears were very thick and crusty around the edges. He was wearing a buster collar nearly 24 hrs a day which he hated. As soon as I removed it he would scratch and the steroids were no longer helping.
> 
> ...


Yes ive read about this. When i scratch him underneath on his belly where he is read, he kicks his back legs. Like i said the treatment works but after a feww weeks to a month he starts scratching again. If it is fox manage why does it keep coming back. I know fleas can breed in the household what about sarcoptic mange? Could it be that my house is infested and thats why he keeps getting it back?


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

kevinp1986 said:


> Like i said the treatment works but after a feww weeks to a month he starts scratching again. If it is fox manage why does it keep coming back.


What treatment are you talking about. If it's the pred then it won't be getting rid of the mange just treating the symptoms. If you are talking about stronghold then you might need to repeat the dose after 2 weeks. The lift cycle is 17-21 days and the eggs of the mite develop in burrows in the skin and when they hatch need to be dealt with too so one dose probably wont work. It is possible to get from blankets and things so after treating I would wash things like that to eliminate them from the environment but it isnt such a massive issue like with fleas.


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

HannahKate said:


> It's the pinna (which is the name for the part of the ear you rub) pedal (foot) reflex. Most dogs with scabies will show the reflex and not many that don't have it will. It's nice and easy for you to try yourself.
> Sarcoptes isn't always that easy to find on a skin scrape but I would definitely be asking for them to do one anyway, probably before I thought about changing the feed.
> BTW the prednisone you were given last time help with itching (so are good for allergic dermatitis) but pretty much give any mites a free rein to reproduce so not great if your dog has scabies!! Were you given the steroids before or after a possible mange diagnosis? To treat scabies you can use shampoos and acaricidal dips. Drugs containing selamectin (think that may be in stronghold??) which i think needs to be 2 treatments about 2 weeks apart but don't quote me on that!!


He has never been diagnosed with mange. On the first visit he said to me it looks as if though it is manage. And on the last visit he said he doesnt know what it is, and didnt bother to do a scrapping. He is just going by a visual prognosis.. so i really dont know what it is... but yes he does move his back feet when i rub him where ever he has been scratching.


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

HannahKate said:


> What treatment are you talking about. If it's the pred then it won't be getting rid of the mange just treating the symptoms. If you are talking about stronghold then you might need to repeat the dose after 2 weeks. The lift cycle is 17-21 days and the eggs of the mite develop in burrows in the skin and when they hatch need to be dealt with too so one dose probably wont work. It is possible to get from blankets and things so after treating I would wash things like that to eliminate them from the environment but it isnt such a massive issue like with fleas.


I stated what he has had from the vets on my initial thread, right at beggining


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

kevinp1986 said:


> but yes he does move his back feet when i rub him where ever he has been scratching.


It is just the ear that the reflex is valid for not any random body part (i think). 
Personally I wouldn't be happy with a guess since there are loads and loads of causes of itchy skin and what is used to treat one thing may not help or make worse another thing. 
I'm a little confused but basically prednisone wont help mange if that's what it is and only one dose of stronghold wouldn't finish the job either.
If your vet can't be bothered to pull his finger out and do a few skin scrapes or other tests then I'd say find another vet who will. Better to know the exact cause and treat it appropriately than randomly dose with drugs on a hypothesis.


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

HannahKate said:


> It is just the ear that the reflex is valid for not any random body part (i think).
> Personally I wouldn't be happy with a guess since there are loads and loads of causes of itchy skin and what is used to treat one thing may not help or make worse another thing.
> I'm a little confused but basically prednisone wont help mange if that's what it is and only one dose of stronghold wouldn't finish the job either.


on the 4th of last month he was given a dexfort injection, prednisolone tabs, fuciderm gel and a dose of stronghold. I had to go back two weeks later for a revist (18th), he was then given a dexadreason injection and some more prednisolone tabs and when i got home i gave him some stronghold.

Third time hes had mange now, if thats what it is in a year.


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

How much does it cost for a scrapping and blood tests? Also would the insurance cover this


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

OK so if it was mange the 2 doses of stronghold "should" have sorted it but the use of the steroids may complicate this somewhat. The steroids would help if it's an allergic kind of a problem. 
Is it literally just itching or are there any skin lesions visible other than ones caused by the itching? Are there any papules (small non fluid filled lumps) or scales/crusts? If you groom or bathe regularly you might not see any crusts obviously.
I'm guessing you don't let your dog rub shoulders with any particularly mangy looking strays or foxes if you can help it so it would seem a bit odd maybe to have 3 separate incidents of getting mange unless the treatment mostly got rid of it each time but not enough to totally sort it out and then it's just a reoccurrance of the same infection.
A scraping will be done by your vet at the time of the consult and I wouldn't have thought costs that much. No idea about bloods though, sorry.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

As far as I know Dexafort is just an antiinflamatory, and anti allergen injection basically steroid same as the preds. which will only calm down symptoms, by stopping the inflmation and supressing the alergic response by damping down the immune system response, so just treats the symptoms rather than the cause. Ears face and particularly the muzzle, legs and elbows are usually prime places for mange as they are the first areas that come into contact with an infected animal or the ground. Also the fur is thinner so allows any skin mites easier access to borrow into the skin. As well as sarcoptic there is also demodetic mange. A lot of dogs can carry demodectic without it causing any effects, I believe, but in times of stress or illness and if the demodectic mites multiply then they can get a bad reaction. Which could be a possible, as the preds and antiinflammatorys would control the symptoms whilst in effect, but as the immune system is supressed once they wear off and the dogs no longer taking them, annd if Im right it could then leave him more susceptible to the effects. The only way to really find out is do a skin scrape and look under the microscope to see if any mites are present. So really that should have been ruled out as one of the possible causes.

Dogs can also get fungal infections, some of these can be seen under a woods lamp, although not all so again, the skin scraping would need to be cultured. You can also get bacterial overgrowths and yeast overgrowths. Often scratching can leave the skin open to secondary infection from bacteria fungus and yeasts. Stronghold (which I think you said he had) usually works on sarcoptic mange and I believe demodectic as well, but to be sure it has got rid completely I think you have to usually do 3 months consecutive treatments. If and once all the basic things like this are ruled out, then another possible cause could be allergies. Some dogs are allergic to
house dust mites, grasses, pollen and all sorts of enviromental things. You can have allergy tests done, where I believe they shave an area usually on the stomach and inject small doses of all the common food and enviromental allergies to see if there is a response.


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Which could be a possible, as the preds and antiinflammatorys would control the symptoms whilst in effect, but as the immune system is supressed once they wear off and the dogs no longer taking them, annd if Im right it could then leave him more susceptible to the effects.


You are right and managed to make that so much more understandable than I did!!


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

HannahKate said:


> OK so if it was mange the 2 doses of stronghold "should" have sorted it but the use of the steroids may complicate this somewhat. The steroids would help if it's an allergic kind of a problem.
> Is it literally just itching or are there any skin lesions visible other than ones caused by the itching? Are there any papules (small non fluid filled lumps) or scales/crusts? If you groom or bathe regularly you might not see any crusts obviously.
> I'm guessing you don't let your dog rub shoulders with any particularly mangy looking strays or foxes if you can help it so it would seem a bit odd maybe to have 3 separate incidents of getting mange unless the treatment mostly got rid of it each time but not enough to totally sort it out and then it's just a reoccurrance of the same infection.
> A scraping will be done by your vet at the time of the consult and I wouldn't have thought costs that much. No idea about bloods though, sorry.


Yeh he just wants me to come back every couple of months to fill his pockets. Hes never suggested taking a scraping which im guessing should have been done on the very first occasssion according to what people have said on here and what ive read of various sites. I think i will find Capone a new vet.


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

is there any where on the internet where you can buy stronghold without needing a perscription from your vet? whats the difference between stronghold and advocate?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

kevinp1986 said:


> is there any where on the internet where you can buy stronghold without needing a perscription from your vet? whats the difference between stronghold and advocate?


Stronghold and advocate you can buy from online vet pharmacies but both are prescription only ones, so you therefore have to ask your vet for a prescription to ssend in with order. They charge for them average sort of cost is ten pounds, although some will charge more,some less. 
Advocate does, fleas,ear mites, round worm sarcoptic mange and prevention of heartworm. I believe stronghold does the same. Heres one on line vet pharmacy I use that have found good Vet-Medic - the same medicines as your vet at consistently low prices. Order line 0800 387348 they also have a pharmacist and qualified vet there too, if you have any queries.


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Stronghold and advocate you can buy from online vet pharmacies but both are prescription only ones, so you therefore have to ask your vet for a prescription to ssend in with order. They charge for them average sort of cost is ten pounds, although some will charge more,some less.
> Advocate does, fleas,ear mites, round worm sarcoptic mange and prevention of heartworm. I believe stronghold does the same. Heres one on line vet pharmacy I use that have found good Vet-Medic - the same medicines as your vet at consistently low prices. Order line 0800 387348 they also have a pharmacist and qualified vet there too, if you have any queries.


so if i were to buy a pack of stronghold which should last three months would i then need another perscription every time i want to purchase stronghold or would i just need another perscription if i were to purchase other medication that requires a perscription.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

kevinp1986 said:


> so if i were to buy a pack of stronghold which should last three months would i then need another perscription every time i want to purchase stronghold or would i just need another perscription if i were to purchase other medication that requires a perscription.


Everytime you wanted to order, then you would have to get a new prescription. Most vets are operating a care of duty exercise now, that even if your pet is on a for life ongoing medication, they insist on seeing the pet every three months, so wont give more than 3 monthly meds at a time.
which is another thing you may have to consider depending on your own vet. He will charge for the prescription each time, but if he also insists he wants to see him to check him over too, they may try to add on a consultation or charge for that too.

Is your dog insured? If you are absolutely getting nowhere with his skin condition and he is, ask for a refferal to a dermotologist. You can get a quote and usually get pre authorisation beforehand from your insurer, to make sure you would be covered before you take him.


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

Thats a bit of a cheek charging for perscription each time for same med's. Means to make money. Yes he is insured. Yeh its getting ridiculous now. Im having to go back every couple of months. Its only now having read the posts from other ppl that i am more clued up. To be honest i dont think he's a very good vet. He doesnt explain what hes giving the dog or how it works. He's giving him medication yet he doesnt know what's wrong with the dog. And as you said the pred tablets and injection are just masking the problem. 

I think im going to get a pack of stronghold and see how it goes if no improvement then i will take him to new vets. The scratching isnt so bad only started yesterday. 

Another thing about the pedal reflex. Ive scartched his ears and he isnt giving a reaction to it. Yet underneath(his belly) where he has been scratching and is all red he kicks his back legs in a scratching motion. What does that mean?

Commenting on what somesone said earlier. That a single dose of stronghold may not work and two administartions may be required. Does it not say that it kills all infestation within 24 hours? So why would one administration not work. Is it at all possible that the mites may become immune to stronghold and that it isnt working?


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

kevinp1986 said:


> Another thing about the pedal reflex. Ive scartched his ears and he isnt giving a reaction to it. Yet underneath(his belly) where he has been scratching and is all red he kicks his back legs in a scratching motion. What does that mean?
> 
> Commenting on what somesone said earlier. That a single dose of stronghold may not work and two administartions may be required. Does it not say that it kills all infestation within 24 hours? So why would one administration not work. Is it at all possible that the mites may become immune to stronghold and that it isnt working?


The repeat after 2 weeks advice comes from my dermatology professor for when an animal is actively infected. After that it would be monthly. Not sure why but from looking at some vetty stuff it seems to be what a lot of vet dermatologists recommend 
The leg paddling when you scratch his belly simply means he is itchy on his belly.  The thing with the ear is that mostly only dogs with sarcoptes react in that way so if you scratch the edge of the ear where the mites like to live and he reacts then it's fairly likely that he has it (over 95% of dogs with scabies react positively). I think you are meant to scratch the underside of the pinna rather than the top of the ear.


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## kevinp1986 (Feb 10, 2011)

HannahKate said:


> The repeat after 2 weeks advice comes from my dermatology professor for when an animal is actively infected. After that it would be monthly. Not sure why but from looking at some vetty stuff it seems to be what a lot of vet dermatologists recommend
> The leg paddling when you scratch his belly simply means he is itchy on his belly.  The thing with the ear is that mostly only dogs with sarcoptes react in that way so if you scratch the edge of the ear where the mites like to live and he reacts then it's fairly likely that he has it (over 95% of dogs with scabies react positively). I think you are meant to scratch the underside of the pinna rather than the top of the ear.


Thanks for your reply. Well then it doesnt seem like hes got fox mange then. Although i wont entirely rule that out until hes had a scraping. So then it's either his food or somethin environmental.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

kevinp1986 said:


> Thats a bit of a cheek charging for perscription each time for same med's. Means to make money. Yes he is insured. Yeh its getting ridiculous now. Im having to go back every couple of months. Its only now having read the posts from other ppl that i am more clued up. To be honest i dont think he's a very good vet. He doesnt explain what hes giving the dog or how it works. He's giving him medication yet he doesnt know what's wrong with the dog. And as you said the pred tablets and injection are just masking the problem.
> 
> I think im going to get a pack of stronghold and see how it goes if no improvement then i will take him to new vets. The scratching isnt so bad only started yesterday.
> 
> ...


When I had my samoyed years ago now, he had mange, way back before the days of the spot on treatments. In those days you had to bath them in a treatment that you had to soak into the skin and leave it on all over. Even with that you had to do it twice. If you read the stronhold leaflet if you still have it Im sure it says on their for mange you have to do it 2 or maybe even 3 consecutive times running to make sure. The first dose probably kills most adult life stage mites. But eggs and juvenile stages can remain. Anthing remainining will just develope lay more eggs and start it all over again. Thats why you have to do it several times to eradicate all life stages until there is nothing left. Or should do. Infestation within 24hrs I think you will find refers more to fleas and ticks. Fleas and ticks only feed on the animal. Fleas lay their eggs in the environment. Which could also be another possible. I think with spot ons unlike sprays, that kill on contact. The flea has to bite and absorb the chemical with the blood as it feeds. With Dogs or cats that can develope a flea allergy, sometimes it only takes one or two bites to set up an allergy and intense itching. So thats not above the realms of possibility with your dog either a flea allergy. As the flea only jumps on to feed, and would die after the bite, its possible you wouldnt see fleas or maybe even flea dirts on him.


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

Yeah I had that idea about the eggs since they are laid in burrows within the skin and I thought that maybe the selamectin doesn't affect those so you redose after a few weeks to catch the hatched eggs but I couldn't find this actually stated anywhere when I looked. It's probably the case though.


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