# First Time Breeding-Questions



## QD6 (Aug 5, 2012)

so my pug had 5 puppies, they are now 6 days old. they all seem to be thriving. 

it has been hard on the mother. she was panting alot and had bad diarrhea and smelly farts. i thought maybe it was from eatting the placenta but i think the fact that it has continued for much longer than 2 days is cause for major concern. i took her to the vet- she had bad breath and he heard something in her lungs. he gave her a shot of cefazolin and gave me an oral amoxicillin to take home. she seems to have improved. she is not waking me up every half an hour to go poo anymore. and she has stopped panting - still weezing a bit. i am hesitant to give her the oral antibiotics because i dont want the puppies to have birth defects. 

she is eatting steak cooked in olive oil, some tomatoes, and i am bottle feeding her condensed milk mixed with organic yogurt mixed with organic free range egg yolk to keep her vitamin and calcium levels up. She is fussy. 

any advice appreciated. basically just looking for second opinions.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I don't think your vet would have given her antibiotics if they could possibly harm her pups, why do you think they would? Birth defects are things that occur in the womb while the foetus is forming not after the birth of a healthy thriving pup. My girl had dreadful diarrhoea after the birth of her pups for around three to four days, terrible wind so I took her to my vet who said it was likely her eating all eight placenta's (I didn't know then it was too much) and her tum would settle once they were out of her system - which it did without drugs. She was raw fed though so I don't know about your girl. 

Like I said I know nothing of any other way of feeding than raw but would have thought the condensed milk alone would make her tummy runny, also it's full of sugar - again not good. Others will come along with better advice regarding her diet I'm sure but if your vet thinks she may have a chest infection and you don't give her the antibiotics you are endangering her life especially if she sounds wheezy. Nursing human mothers can take oral antibiotics with no harm coming to their babies and I would think it wouldn't harm the pups either - not like losing mum would. If it passes over through the breast milk the very worst it could do is make their stool softer, you have to remember that antibiotics are given even to new born pups if they pick up a bug at birth so the minute amount in breast milk will do no harm. 
For mums sake you must give her the tablets - to not do so is risking losing her!


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## QD6 (Aug 5, 2012)

thanks. my dog ate three placentas. strange because she had some pretty nasty looking poops even the day before she had the pups. 

i said the wrong thing. it is evaporated milk, it has no suger in it besides the lactose i guess.


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## SharonM (Mar 2, 2010)

Sounds normal to me, and her breath won't be pleasant, she's cleaning up after 5 pups! Hopefully she's also eating more, and things she wouldn't normally eat, so is going to need to go out more.


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## muse08 (Dec 21, 2008)

If your vet has prescribed anti-biotic for her then imo you should give them to her.They wont cause birth defects as birth defects only occur before they are born, and im sure your vet would not prescribe anything that would cause harm to the pups.
If you don't give them to her and she gets sick then you could end up having to hand rear the pups because mum is too ill to do it.
Tomatoes have no nutritional benefit for her at all; feed her unlimited amounts of what she normally eats, maybe up her protein intake. If you want to give her extra calcium and vitamins see if you can get her some calci-care supplement its specifically for nursing bitches.Organic yogurt mixed with egg yolk is good but if you want to give her milk maybe try goat's milk instead as it has less lactose in it that cow's milk. Or better still buy some puppy milk replacer and give her that instead of the condensed milk.

Nutrolac goats milk puppy milk

Calci Care - The Animal Health Company Ltd

When we have a litter we feed raw + calci suppliment but good quality puppy biscuit is also recomended for feeding to nursing bitches.


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## SpicyBulldog (Jun 30, 2012)

If I read this right the pups are 6 days old so how could birth defects occur if they are already born? 

I had a pup with a birth injury so of course I took him to the vet promptly (the day he was born) and they gave me liquid oral amoxi. He developed fine being given the antibiotic for over a week. 

I can't imagine why one would with hold medication for a dog ill with a chest infection which could become life threatening. You should have spoke with your vet about your concerns while at the appointment.


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## Puppy Love (Jan 10, 2008)

Feed her as much of her normal diet as she will take, get some calci-boost to help replace calcium. Put this in some puppy milk or goats milk. I personally would not use cows milk or evaporated milk as I feel they would upset the tummy. I used Royal Canin Baby milk and then goats milk, mum and 16 pups all great. I would also give her the anti-biotics as advised by your vet, she must need them!

Puppy Love x


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## SpicyBulldog (Jun 30, 2012)

Dogs are typically lactose intolerant. I as well would not advise giving your dog cows milk. It can cause diarrhea and vomiting. Also imagine pain and stomach cramps. A small amount of dairy product won't harm your dog however. Evaporated milk is fine for puppies (can use as the base for a grear puppy formula) but I wouldn't give to mom.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I've had a bitch on antibiotics whilst she was still feeding (early mastitis) - the vet said the best thing that could happen was for the pups too feed off her through it - reduces the risks of more serious problems (and I've seen some pretty nasty cases of mastitis but thankfully no personal experience).

The problem with what you are feeding her is you have no idea whether she is getting a balanced diet or not.

Not convinced I would use evaporated milk (it is quite rich and can remember it used to upset my stomach) - try goats milk (they do everything from skimmed through to full fat) - rice pudding - and also try and get her eating some sort of good quality puppy food (wet or dry).

Natural yogurt is fine as it will help to balance the good bacteria in the gut - the steak is fine - but it's not really any wonder you could be adding to any diarrhea problems cooking food in olive oil which is incredibly rich (we've recently switched to using it for cooking - and a little goes a very long way).

If you want her to have some oil - try oily fishes like sardines or mackerel (very reasonably priced in Tescos) - then you can drain some of the oil off and you have a crackingly nice smelly meal for her 

i've got Labs so obviously our quantities are going to be much heftier than your girls - but do allow her to feed (and drink) on demand using a good quality puppy food as the base and then add these foods on top (hopefully someone else will advise on the olive oil, but personally, I wouldn't consider it the best option given her dicky tum. You can always soak a dried puppy food (as her mouth will be quite sore probably from caring for her babies) then mix it in with the extras you want to give her. 

Sugar / glucose wise - I use it a lot when mum is whelping and then mixed in with lactol for the first couple of days - by 6 days - mum wouldn't be having any additional sugar / glucose other than that occurring naturally in the goats milk and rice pudding.

Overall, remember what goes into mum, also goes into the pups.


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## QD6 (Aug 5, 2012)

thanks everyone for the advice. i started the antibiotics today to be on the safe side. 

she was a bit restless today - running around under our bed and scratching at the carpet for no reason. i hope she is not getting eclampsia. i am probably just over analyzing everything and overreacting at this point. she is back sleeping in the welping box now. her appetite is improving and her poop is still wet and runny but it is more brown than black now. she is back to pooping 2 times per day instead of 10+. all in all i think she is much improved.

is it wrong to want to give her lots of good rich foods? she was so skinny after having the pups it was shocking. im trying to fatten her up a bit.


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## gayle38 (Jul 16, 2012)

hi the black/green poos are the after birth shes eaten. its good to let them eat a few but not all of them as it causes upset tum.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

QD6 said:


> is it wrong to want to give her lots of good rich foods? she was so skinny after having the pups it was shocking. im trying to fatten her up a bit.


If you read my post, the only items I've suggested might not the best idea are the Olive Oil and the Evaporated milk - suggesting oily fish and goats milk and / or rice pudding.

There's nothing wrong with feeding the bitch up after the pups, she needs as much energy as she can to feed herself and them - my girls are on around 1kg of puppy food, plus just about anything else I can throw at them.

I just suggested giving mum a good quality puppy food (wet or dry) as a base and then adding these foods on - that way you can be sure mum is getting the right nutrients from the food, plus her top-ups to ensure she the babies are getting what's needed.


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

Can I just say as regards to cooking steak in olive oil....
You only need a very small amount of oil, half a tea spoon at most, rub over the steak instead of putting in a pan to heat, reduces the fat your cooking in.

I agree with swarthy use goats milk instead of evaporated milk. Natural yoghurt is good as well, I've heard a lot of people mention giving it to dogs with pups.

Good luck with your puppies and hope mum is well 

Oh I don't know if you have seen/heard of it, but Royal Canin do a mousse called VCN Pediatric Starter mousse. It can be used for lactating bitches and weaning pups (when the time comes) it's high energy and you give in small amounts.


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## SharonM (Mar 2, 2010)

One of my girls was on Synulox Anti-biotics from 4 weeks post mating until after she whelped, she had 7 chunky healthy pups, when vets prescribe AB's they tend to know which is safe to use on pregnant/lactating bitches.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I don't let my girls eat the placentas for this very reason. Pro Kolin paste might help to firm the stools a little if you want to ask your Vet for some.

Appropriate antibiotics are not going to hurt the bitch or the pups. I have had bitches on antibiotics after whelping and Mum and pups were fine.

I give my girls puppy food in the last 5 weeks before whelping and so when pups are born the bitch has built up a little fat reserve. I continue to feed puppy food until the pups stop feeding from my bitches. I also give fresh cooked chicken breast and boiled fish, scrambled egg but don't give red meat unless their toilets are firm and normal, as I find red meat can sometimes cause tummy upsets in my dogs.

I would keep a close eye on that "wheeze" - hopefully now taking the antibiotics, that will subside.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

SpicyBulldog said:


> Dogs are typically lactose intolerant. I as well would not advise giving your dog cows milk. It can cause diarrhea and vomiting. Also imagine pain and stomach cramps. A small amount of dairy product won't harm your dog however. Evaporated milk is fine for puppies (can use as the base for a grear puppy formula) but I wouldn't give to mom.


Can someone actually substantiate this? In a former life, my dogs always had full fat cows milk with no ill effects.

When I got my eldest, I fell for all the hype of using goats milk, and still do (although have substituted it for cows milk in am emergency without any ill effects).

My new pups and their mum get bucketloads of Ambrosia creamed rice - which is made with cows milk.

Contrary to actually causing upset tums, it is actually very effective in settling them down.

Yogurt too is also often made from cows milk, yet is brilliant at rebalancing the bacteria in the gut and helping settle down a dodgy tum - something else I give to my pups and mum.


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