# Is this rejection or normal?



## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

My girl had her kittens in the night,everything went smooth,I didn't need to step in at all,just watched from a distance. It was amazing 

I left the room at 5am as she was very settled,kittens snuggled in and she was purring away. 
I returned very quietly and took her fresh water at 7.30. Again I could hear her purring loudly and she was still with the kittens. 

Then since 8am she has been meowing loudly at the door,constantly for over an hour now. She isn't with the kittens as I can hear them meowing too. 

Now I'm in a flap she is starting to reject them.
I'm prepared should I need to take over but don't want to do that too soon. 

I have visited a few breeders in the last week and they have spoke of rejection but only rejection of part of the litter ,not the whole litter so I'm not sure if what she's doing is normal behaviour. 
I have added this to the end of my thread on the cat chat group but thought I would post here too. 

Thanks in advance.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Have you fed her ? 
When you say she is yowling at the door is this a door to a kittening room? If so is there any reason it is shut, she may just wish to come out and stretch her legs?

Have you changed the bedding since she gave birth?

Are you sure she has had all her kittens, have you checked her abdomen?

Need a bit more info really


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

Ignore me,panicking unessesarly.
It's closed because it's always been closed and she's never had a problem with that. 
I have opened it. She has escaped. 
I've checked her abdomen.
I haven't touched the bedding.
She has been offered food.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

You really need to change the bedding under the kittens it will be damp and likely mucky. 

Everyone has their own way of doing stuff, my girl births in a large cardboard box, I have a second identical one set up and then just swap the kittens quickly into the clean one with clean bedding and remove the used one. 

I wouldnt panic yet, every Queen is different - my girl wont leave her box for several days, I even have to feed her in it, but I know other Queens who like a bit of time out from the kitten room.

Keep an eye on her, if the kittens meow she should be keen to return to them.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

It's almost impossible to say at this stage. Some queens are reluctant to move away from kittens at all for a number of days, even to eat. Others, even first time mums, appear to know exactly what they're doing and will ignore crying kittens for a while whilst they go stretch their legs, apparently confident in the knowledge that they've spent the last X number of hours in the box, feeding their kittens.

Some queens do object, once their kittens have been born, to being shut away in a room and if your circumstances won't allow it (i.e. you can't keep small children or other pets out of the room) that can be a bit tricky. By allowing her free access to and from the room you will be setting a precedent as far she is concerned... but it would seem unkind to ignore her crying and the fact that clearly she wants out. I would say if you can let her out, then do. A lot of breeders tend to be very fearful of NOT confining queens with their kittens but most know perfectly well what they're doing and make a good job of it given half a chance.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

There are cats who refuse point blank to use a litter tray in the same room as the kittens while there are others who don't want to be away from their kittens for a minute. Some aren't happy if you aren't in the room with them and want to be able to check on where you are. They are individuals and each have their own preferences.


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

I have opened the door,I stated that on my first reply. She has the run on the entire first floor of my house. No one up there at all.
I do have a small child but he's kept far away. 

I will go up and change the bedding,it appears fine from what I have seen but I am willing to try any advice given to me. 
I didn't change the bedding because I didn't want to disturb her or them. 

Oh she has come downstairs now!
So the kittens are up there alone and she has taken herself to her usual spot - under the dining table on a chair!
There's no way she would hear the kittens from down here,so she isn't going to return to their cries.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Amy04029 said:


> So the kittens are up there alone and she has taken herself to her usual spot - under the dining table on a chair!
> There's no way she would hear the kittens from down here,so she isn't going to return to their cries.


Give her a chance for an hour or so. It's very often the queen who initiates feeding by going to the box and washing/waking kittens to feed... and not kittens crying to initiate feeding themselves.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Be patient, I know its easy to say but try and relax, if you are mega stressed your girl will pick up on it. If you are happy that the bedding is ok then leave it, its difficult to advise from online, in my experience the bedding always needs changing straight away and then at least every day, but I cant see what yours it like.


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

Right. I will just leave her there. 
You have much more experience than me. 
I have a local breeder I got friendly with and have tried calling her but she isn't answering.


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

I have been up and changed the bedding. 
Atleast I have had the chance to see the kittens 
So cute!
I will leave her be and see what she decides to do herself. 
My little boy is due his nap soon and I was planning on taking her back upstairs and sitting in there with her but if the general consensus is to leave her be then I will do that.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

You will get conflicting advice, even on here. Some breeders are very keen on the idea of confining queens with their kittens and others are not so long as circumstances allow. It's really a case of playing it by ear; they are all different and its just a case of adapting to whatever suits them. I'm sure you're well trained in that already


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

What she said 

I had one girl who only visited her kittens on the dot of every two hours to feed and clean them. One of the best breeding girls I ever had.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

As my cat had her babies just a few days ago your problems are very close to my heart. 
First of all, the bedding needs to be changed - it needs to be clean and warm. Vetbed is the best - you can get it in Pets at Home. It can be washed in the washing machine and then dries easily. A very experienced breeder who sold me my queen is guiding me explained that the vetbed helps to keep them dry as any liquid (they do wee) goes to the bottom of vetbed and the top is dry. 
It is extremely important to keep newborn kittens warm - they cannot regulate their temperature. Especially if the mother is not around. Mine are in the whelping box with a lid and I keep the temperature in the room between 24 and 27 degrees C. The humidity also should be between 55-65%. I have a very simple humidifier from Argos and it is great. Otherwise the babies can dry out.
My cat refuses to use her toilet in the room where the kittens are so I have to let her out for that. She also might have mastitis (although probably not from the very beginning, but you have to keep an eye on her teats - look out for inflammation - see that none are especially hot or hard to the touch.) Are you sure she has no kittens inside her left? Mine kept the last one for over 15 hours after she had the first three and it might be even for longer if she has not been to the vet who gave her an injection to stimulate contractions.
I am just looking for a reason why she might be in distress and wanting to escape from her nest.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Kotanushka said:


> I am just looking for a reason why she might be in distress and wanting to escape from her nest.


It's most likely that she wants the opportunity to go to/from the room as she pleases and isn't actually wanting to escape anything. Many, many perfectly good mums (and particularly those who are used to being around you in a home environment) do object to being shut in one room.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Bedding is changed not long after my queens have finished and then changed every day .. Litter is refreshed everyday and food is on content supply


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

Vetbed is what I have too.
Food is constant.
Litter is always fresh.
The door was opened just after 9 when I was advised to.
Its now 11.27 and she has demolished 3 bowls of food and is back fast asleed on the dinimg room chair.
I can bring the kittens down but the dog and child are down here.
She would go fetch them if she wanted then surely.
Im constantly checking the room temp and have the dehumidifyer on.
Im VERY well prepared practicaly...just wasnt prepared for this!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

It was a little after 9am since your initial post. Has she been back in to feed the kittens since?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

If she was mine, and hadn't gone back in 2 and a half hours, I'd pop her back in with them again. If she's asleep on the chair, sounds like she's in no rush to get back. I do allow queens to come and go as they please (under supervision), but if I have one who won't go back when the kittens need it, I encourage confinement as much as possible so long as the girl settles.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

If not, I would nip upstairs and wake one or two of the kittens by lifting them from the nest. So long as she's within earshot, the kittens crying should send her to the room and in with the kittens pronto.


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

I took her up at 12,she ignored them and came straight back downstairs. 
I roused the kittens and took her back up. She ignored them again. 

She is back downstairs now. I'm awaiting for the vet calling back. I think I'm going to have to start feeding them myself.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

oh dear, are you absolutely sure she doesnt have a retained kitten? Sometimes they dont settle with a littler until all are born, my girl had a gap of 12 hours between kittens with her first litter.

Keep us updated this may help although I know you are prepared
Hand Raising & Bottle Feeding Orphaned Kittens


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

I can't feel anything at all. I'm hoping the vet will come out to see her just to be 100%. 
She just wants to sleep and eat. I've checked her nipples,no sign of infection.


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

Well she's gone up herself and appears to have gone into the box. I can't be 100% sure - she could have sneaked into a hiding place- but she isn't anywhere to be seen from the doorway. 
I will give her half an hour and try and sneak in to check she is with them. I don't want to go in there now and risk disturbing her.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Its her first litter she is probably worried and up crying for you, some of mine wont even go near the kittens unless I am stroking them at the same time as they want constant reassurance! Can she not be in the same room as you?


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

I have MS so dont trust myself carrying the box downstairs but as soon as my husband arrives home hes going to bring them downstairs.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Don't panic to much .. My girl is not a stay at home mum but she did go back every two hours to feed them or if they called she was back with them 

I did lock her in with them at night tho , she was happy with this as long as she had free roam during the day. She is a mummies girl so liked to be close to me 

Keep checking her nipples , as she is eating loads and not feeding she might get milk backup and she might get mastitis. .. Not nice at all


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

We find that if we pen the mum with her kittens for the first couple of weeks the Mum will feel more secure and will settle well with them, we found before we put a pen in the kittening room and just allowed the queens to have the run of the whole room they would cry at the door and also drag their kittens around, we were worried in case they did some damage so we bought a pen and never looked back. The Queens and the kittens are much more settled. I know some people don't think they should be penned but it really does help.
If you keep allowing her to come downstairs she will get used to this and might reject her kittens preferring to be with you, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind and ignore her pleas at wanting to be with you.


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

She's been settled with them for a good 2 hours or so now. I have been up and offered her more food. 
They are all suckling on her and she seems quite content. 
Phew - I think she may be ok now.


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

Glad she sounds settled now. Every girl is different. We never confine our girls, they live with us in the house fulltime and when they have kittens, they have them in one of our bedrooms and can come and go as they please. Think it would freak them out if I shut the door! But all are different and different things work for different people. Alot of breeders keep all other cats away but again ours are a family group and as long as they are supervised in the beginning I have no probs with other cats coming to have a peek. 

Our cats are all different types of mums, some will absolutely not leave the box and have to be hand fed which is a nightmare. At the other end is Chilli who goes into the kittens every few hours, spends half hour feeding and washing and then is off again.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I know some people don't think they should be penned but it really does help.


It depends purely on the cat. One of my girls would have hurt herself and/or her kittens trying to get out if I'd penned her. It's extremely dangerous to generalise.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

You need to have a set up that meets the needs of each individual cat, and each mum will have different needs. I have one that won't feed her kittens if given free roam, but won't allow herself to be penned unless she's in sight of me, or the house is totally empty. So for her, I used 2 pens: one in the living room and one in my bedroom. Mum and babies got up with me in the morning and went to bed with me at night. This iamount of moving is not something many mums would tolerate, but this girl made it very clear that this is what she wanted.

Her daughter though. She's happy to be confined for the first week, asking to come out only to use the litterbox, have a run around, then a clean. Then she's straight back in again and is content for another 12 hour stretch. At 2 weeks, she starts indicating that she wants to be allowed to mingle with the other cats again, and will bring them all one by one to show them her babies. She still goes back in to feed when the babies need it though.


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## Amy04029 (Jun 30, 2013)

She appears pretty content now. She's in our bedroom with us. 
We are toying with the idea of moving her into the living room where she usually spends most of her time but as she seems content for now we are going to leave her I think. 
She has been checked over and the vet is more than happy with her and the kittens.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

If she's settling then yes, just leave her be.


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Amy04029 said:


> She appears pretty content now. She's in our bedroom with us.
> We are toying with the idea of moving her into the living room where she usually spends most of her time but as she seems content for now we are going to leave her I think.
> She has been checked over and the vet is more than happy with her and the kittens.


Very happy for you! Enjoy the new babies! :001_tt1:
Have you got any photos yet?


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

havoc said:


> It depends purely on the cat. One of my girls would have hurt herself and/or her kittens trying to get out if I'd penned her. It's extremely dangerous to generalise.


Yes they are all different, it is up to the Breeder to decide which is best, obviously if a cat is penned and it shows signs of not being comfortable or hurting itself etc then common sense would say don't pen her. For me it really does work with our Queens,they seem to be very content but after two weeks the pen is left open for them to come out and explore the room. It is also good for me when I am cleaning their room to pop them back in the pen so I don't accidentally step on one of the kittens.


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