# Giardia nightmare



## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi,

I am new to this board.

I am in tears as 8 weeks ago I was bought a pedigree BSH for £400 by my boyfriend as a xmas present (yes an expensive and only xmas present). Fully GCCF registered and everything seemed great.

When I got her home I noticed her poo was quite toothpaste like and it stank. But just thought it was nerves or maybe food (breeder had her on adult whiskers) Anyway I slowly changed her diet to see if that would help. But no. Eventually I took her to the vets as she started to have mucus and blood in her poo and it was getting looser (This was 12 days after getting her). She also had mucky eyes since getting her.

So I spent £56 getting her re-wormed, de-fleed, diarrhoea treatment. This done nothing so in the end spent £70 getting a test done. This come back she was positive for Giardia. Everything else negative i.e salmonella and something else (forgotton).

So we put her on Panacur. This firmed things up for two days then the diarrhoea started again. Back to the vets for more medicine, this time 8 days of Flagyl. This worked for the 8 days. As soon as I stopped she had diarrhoea again.

Now in the meantime I had contacted the breeder. He said if he had known she was ill he would have not sold her. He said he would get his two indoor cats tested (one being my kittys mum). 

So today I contacted the breeder to say she was ill again and did he have results back. He said no, he would chase. He said I could if needed bring her back and he would refund me my £400 and vet bills. 

But since then he has phoned saying his cats are negative and he will not pay for anything! Also on top of this she had an ear infection and conjunctivitis. 

I do not understand how his cats can be negative. My kitty has not been anywhere and she was poorly from day one. He denies this and said she was fine when with him.

So I have spent about £900 on this cat so far with buying stuff for her, medicine, vaccinations and buying her.

Now the vet needs £109 for more tests. I have no money left. Even if this test shows positive, I will need to treat again. Also if it is T Foetus (did not test this 1st time round) it is a nightmare to get rid of.

So I am stuck with an infected cat. Or the vet says she could have more underlying issues. So if that is the case I may need to put her to sleep. No way I can pay out any more money. I worry as I have a 6 year old child and whether we can be infected. I am spending loads on cat litter! I had a cat for 21 years before this one and never had to take her to the vets! 

I wish I had never got this kitten as I am sick with worry. 

Please help


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Sorry to hear the trouble you are having. Firstly please use this lab for tests:

Veterinary Laboratory, Tests For Companion & Exotic Animals

If you telephone them, they will send you a pot and paperwork to return. They charge around £30 and test for EVERYTHING - a fraction of what your vet will charge. Once you have the results, you can take it from there.

Giardia and other micosopic parasites are a relatively new discovery. It was not that long ago thought that pedigrees such as Bengals were just 'prone' to runny poo and there was nothing you could do but just accept it. We now know thats very different.

Giardia often needs a much longer treatment period and often there are other parasites present too ie coccidia.

With regards to cat litter - I buy a huge bag of wood shavings from PetsatHome £13 and change completely 3/4 times a day and it lasts months.

Please let us know after the tests. In the meantime, I would try a longer dose of Panacur which you can also buy from PetsatHome. So long as your children dont play in the litter tray, then there is nothing to worry about. Also wash the litter tray with bleach and rinse and wash your hands or use disposable gloves.

Please dont think about having her put to sleep for something so easily treatable

ETA What worming did you use? Did it cover tapeworm? as these can also cause diarrhea.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your experience but you're certainly not the first here to buy a kitten with Giardia which in some cases was difficult to eradicate so I wouldn't despair about it just yet! I would keep treating for it until there's a sustained improvement. Are the stools still pale? Don't forget either that cats/kits can re-infect themselves again and Giardia cysts can remain in the environment for some time, so I'd buy a good steam cleaner and get to work!

Firstly, while positive animals can and do return negative stool samples, it's extremely unlikely the breeder's cats are actually negative given your little one is positive. So I would point this out to him if you believe he ran the test in the first place, that is! In fact I'd ask to see the actual test results if in doubt. On the other hand as I pointed on in another thread cats can harbour the infection and be asymptomatic until a stressful event like rehoming weakens the immune system and the infection makes itself known!

Apart from the ear infection and the conjunctivitis which are both treatable ( which I believe you should be compensated for ) what other illnesses does the vet suspect because it seems a bit drastic to condemn a kitten to be PTS? I recently heard where a breeder recommended (to the buyer) putting a kitten (of hers) to sleep because he was a herpes carrier!!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Excellent advice from Ang2 and Ianthi.

I second their plea not to have your cat p.t.s for something that can be treated fairly easily, with determination and patience.

I am not sure what your vet is hinting at by saying there may be "more underlying issues" with your cat. Unless he has evidence of such, then I think it is an unhelpful comment to make, causing you to worry when there may not be anything to worry about, once the present problem is dealt with.

Definitely use the PALS lab that Ang2 has given you the link for. As for further vet fees, ask your vet about a payment plan where you pay a set amount every month until the bill is paid off. No decent vet will refuse to treat an animal because the owner can't pay straight away. If your vet refuses, then phone around and find another vet to help you.

Otherwise, if you are in receipt of Housing Benefit or Council Tax Benefit you would be eligible to apply for free treatment for your kitty at the Blue Cross Hospitals if you are in one of the cachment areas. Or for some vouchers from the RSPCA to pay the vet with.

As well as cleaning and bleaching litter trays every day, it is a good idea to clean hard wood floors every day too, during the treatment, as the cysts can be carried out of the litter tray.

Giardia - Profile of a Gastrointestinal Parasite in Cats


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Just another thought, but most breeders sell their kittens with a months' insurance. Did you get any insurance with the kitten. Also what area are you? There are some vets who dont charge consultation fees which makes a big difference with an ongoing illness/treatment


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

What area does this man live in? im just asking as i dont know alot of male bsh breeders but i do know one who is a total waste of space.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies.

The breeder is in Burgess Hill, Surrey. He said they sent stool samples taken over 3 days. I have said they can test false negative. I am wondering if it is worth contacting the GCCF?

I have contacted PDSA but they are not taking anymore cats on in my area until they are neutered, and then there is a 3 month waiting list. I looked at Blue Cross but not in my area?

Of course I would not want to put my cat to sleep, she is the most loveliest of things. But if there was an 'underlying' issue then there is no way I can afford to carry on paying out like I have. Hoping it is a case of the Giardia being a bugger to get rid of.

I have been cleaning her tray out every day and disenfecting it when we were treating her. I have bleached her food and water bowls. 

I am based in East Sussex.

There was one months free insurance but as I went to the vet within the first 14 days they would not pay out.....Always some reason!

I will look at the PALS lab. Thanks so much for the link.

I just want her better again as it is heartbreaking and so stressful.

The breeder is talking out of his backside and in denial. I have asked him to get the vet to send me the report direct re his cats tests. I think they are carriers and they have tested a false negative. There is NO WAY she has got it from anywhere else!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Not the breeder i know then.I know breeders arnt allowed to sell unhealthy kittens so maybe worth contacting the gccf.


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## Cazzer (Feb 1, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your poorly cat just a thought if the insurance was given by breeder illness is covered within the first 14 days. I had problem with one of mine in this period and first person spoke to at Petplan said wasn't covered but I was its only if policy taken out at veTs or with them afterwards that the 14 day exclusion applies


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

My BSH kitten had Gardia this year. Archie had a stool test and the vet gave him 10 days supply of Flagyl in a liquid form. Archie was weighed to work out how much Flagyl to give him. He needed a further 2 weeks to get rid of it. Also you need to feed him on special food which you can buy on line or from the vets. It is called Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal pouches or the dry. It is expensive but it will make him better. 
Keep every thing clean. 
I kept Archie on the food for 6 months. He is fine now. 
Also our vet gave him an injection to calm his intestines down.
Hope this helps.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi,

She is on Royal Canin but kitten. I will look at the other also.

Worming tablet was Milbemax kitten so it should cover Tapeworm. I have seen no worms in her poo. Her poo is disgusting. It absolutely stinks and has blood in it and mucus. It hang out of her bum as she gets off the litter tray, thus blobs of it falling on my carpet :-( 

Re insurance: I unfortuately did not carry on with the insurance after being told I would not be covered. Silly I know, but at the time was infuriated, and also never had any in 21 years for my old cat.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

With regard to the insurance, please write to the Financial Ombudsman. Im pretty sure he will order that they pay your vet fees, even if you discontinued the policy - she was insured at the time of illness.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Poor kitten. I would ask the vet for something, if she has a sore bottom.
When they have Gardia the poo does stink.
If you are not having much luck with your vet then get a second opinion.

I would deff try the Flagyl.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

You can also buy the rc gastro intestinal online wet or dry alot cheaper than the vets.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

First of all OP I am very sorry to hear you've found yourself in this situation. My sister recently took on a new pet rabbit who has been so ill we almost lost her and it is heartbreaking. 

Secondly I'm finding it hard to understand your plan to move the kitten on or have it PTS. To me, when you take an animal on it is a lifelong commitment. This isn't just aimed at you, but why on earth do people keep taking animals on if they cannot afford vet bills? 

Giardia can be successfully treated, but it will require time and dedication from you.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Evem2806 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Worming tablet was Milbemax kitten so it should cover Tapeworm. I have seen no worms in her poo. Her poo is disgusting. It absolutely stinks and has blood in it and mucus. It hang out of her bum as she gets off the litter tray, thus blobs of it falling on my carpet :-( .


Given the blood and mucus I would be very suspicious of TF ( in addition to Giardia) especially if the diarrhea is frequent/she's maintaining normal weight. If his has always been the case then I wonder why it wasn't tested for it first time round.

Hope you get it all sorted soon!

ETA Have re-read first post and symptoms had'nt developed then!


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Call me naive but in all my years around petd have never ever come across such difficulties. I owned my last cat for 21 years so are fully aware of lifetime commitment! Ive never had such a nightmare. I of course expected to pay for vaccinations, neutering and all the other things that come with pets. i did not expect to be spending a small fortune on a kitten from a breeder. It is disgusting this has happened. I am extremely cross.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Evem2806 said:


> Call me naive but in all my years around petd have never ever come across such difficulties. I owned my last cat for 21 years so are fully aware of lifetime commitment! Ive never had such a nightmare. I of course expected to pay for vaccinations, neutering and all the other things that come with pets. i did not expect to be spending a small fortune on a kitten from a breeder. It is disgusting this has happened. I am extremely cross.


Tbh the breeders i know all vaccinate before kittens leave how old was the kitten when you took it?


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Evem2806 said:


> Call me naive but in all my years around petd have never ever come across such difficulties. I owned my last cat for 21 years so are fully aware of lifetime commitment! Ive never had such a nightmare. I of course expected to pay for vaccinations, neutering and all the other things that come with pets. i did not expect to be spending a small fortune on a kitten from a breeder. It is disgusting this has happened. I am extremely cross.


A lifetime commitment is just that though; a lifetime. Not just until the pet becomes ill. I was sad to see in your OP you are considering rehoming or PTS for a treatable condition. Vaccinations and neutering are a negligible expense, the real costs of pet ownership kick in when one becomes ill, which you are sadly discovering now.

I totally agree that the situation is disgusting, however the priority is the kitten in this situation and considering having it PTS at this stage is IMO an incredible injustice. I hope the little one gets the treatment needed and makes a recovery, whether that's with you or a new home


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I think you misunderstood me. If, IF there was something seriously wrong then id need to look at my options. The vet agreed if she was seriously ill then we may have to put her to sleep. Not for Giardia. I was not rehoming her, the breeder originally offered to take her back, but when he got negative results said no he would not. 

I am going to put the next test on the good old credit card and see what results we get. I need to sort this, as I have a 6 year old child and worry about infection. 

She is a lovely cat. Such a fab temperament. Not sure if you can see the photo I put up of her on my profile? 

I think I should contact the GCCF? What do you think? Thanks for all your help on this forum. Most appreciated.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Cazzer said:


> Sorry to hear about your poorly cat just a thought if the insurance was given by breeder illness is covered within the first 14 days. I had problem with one of mine in this period and first person spoke to at Petplan said wasn't covered but I was its only if policy taken out at veTs or with them afterwards that the 14 day exclusion applies


My first litter of BSH kittens are ready to go in just over a week so I thought I would phone pet plan breeders line to check this as I thought it sounded too good to be true and want to advise my boys new slaves correctly - Cazzer is right, if a 4 week cover note is issued by a breeder the kitten is covered from the day it leaves (minus the £85 excess) The small print does state the cover must be continued after the four week ends and it does not cover pre existing conditions. I would take Ang2 advice and contact the insurance ombudsman as the reason you cancelled the insurance was because you were told you were not covered which was incorrect (unless they argue it was a pre existing condition). Good luck with getting your kitten well


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Evem2806 said:


> I think you misunderstood me. If, IF there was something seriously wrong then id need to look at my options. The vet agreed if she was seriously ill then we may have to put her to sleep. Not for Giardia. I was not rehoming her, the breeder originally offered to take her back, but when he got negative results said no he would not.
> 
> I am going to put the next test on the good old credit card and see what results we get. I need to sort this, as I have a 6 year old child and worry about infection.
> 
> ...


What springs to my mind is the fact the breeder wouldnt take her back as he had clear test results back or so he says.A breeder should always be willing to take any kitten back.

Then i dont get why the breeder didnt vaccinate the kittens either thats also not the norm.

What age did he let you take the kitty.

If your not getting no where with the breeder then it wont harm nothing to give gccf a call and explain your problems with the breeder.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi,

I got her at 11 weeks old. He done the 1st lot of vaccinations, then I had to do the next lot and I also got Leukemia done as this had not been part of the ones he had vaccinated against. 

She was the last kitten as apparently they were going to keep her but then decided they had enough cats already so let her go, so I wonder what age the others went? It rings warning bells as I believe most good breeders do not release them until 13 weeks as advised by the GCCF?

It is funny, he was all ok about helping me out in the morning, but then he spoke to his wife (after negative test results) and they agreed it was not down to them to assist me. I was in tears down the phone to him. 

I will look into the insurance. I did not carry on with Pet Plan as I was so downhearted that they would not help, and also someone said they do not like paying out with Diarrhoea related cases. Just seemed to me they take your money and try and get out of paying for anything (well they are insurance companies after all!)


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I hope you manage to get something sorted one way or another let us know.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I will do thank you.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_fingers crossed here for your little kitten, i hope she gets well soon._


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

do we have an update regarding this kitten.


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## yankeedo (Nov 3, 2012)

Hello Evem, I've been following your post and am hoping things are getting better! How is your kitten? X


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi all,

So the nightmare continues....

Finally after leaving it a few weeks before testing again I have the latest results back:

Giardia
Cryptospordium
Feline Corona
Feline Entiritis.

The last two the vet cannot say if that is showing up as she has been vaccinated against it or whether she had it before. She said she is getting advice on how to treat the 1st two best.

I am so concerned about me and my little girl catching these parasites. Bluebell has bled on my carpet and also I am wiping her bum when I can if I see her poo when I am at home. Her poos are disgusting still.

I am furious with the breeder. I have left a message saying so and that I will bee getting legal advice as no way I should pay such money for a kitten then be left with all this cost. 

So poor bluebell is riddled with parasites and viruses.


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

Evem2806 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> So the nightmare continues....
> 
> ...


Hi Eve, I am really really sorry about these problems! I am extremely worried about the Feline Enteritis, I really hope it's not because she has it. The treatment for Giardia is normally a 10mL dose of Panacur administered over the course of 7 days. Sometimes people administer a 5mL dose for 5 days, take a break of 7 days and do another 5mL for 5 days. More importantly, I would invest in a steam cleaner to make sure the Giardia cysts are gone in the house. This along with a longer dose of Metronidazole is usually what the vets would prescribe.

A good probiotic and immune system supplement is also good to re-establish the gut flora. May I recommend Pro-Kolin and Verm-X which you can get from medicanimal cheaper than anywhere else.

One more thing, pureed pumpkin helps in firming them up, but I am not sure how this would help in this situation!

Also, Bluebelle has FeLV and FIP vaccines? I am wondering because there is a debate whether or not cats should get this vaccination as it seems to cause them more harm than not, but don't quote me on it.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi,

She has been treated with Panacur and Flagyl already and I even re-done Pancur off my own back with the paste but is has done nothing. My concern even more so is this Cryptosporidium:

CryptoSpordium - What makes them especially dangerous to your cat is that once developed, it transfers the organism very easily to other hosts.
It only takes a few of this oocyst to infect your cat, or worse yet, have the infection spread to you. The first will be to take your cat to your veterinarian as soon as possible, and the second will be to isolate your cat as well as protect yourself and your family members in the best possible ways.
There have been over 100 drugs that have been tested and tried as treatments and none of them have shown any promise of curing it.

So what do I do now?

I cannoy have a cat that has a parasite that is not curable in the house. My daughter is my priority and this is terrifying me. 

She has had all jabs recommended so I take it it would include the above.


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

Well whatever you do, don't PTS. I know you've been talking about it at the start of the thread. 

If it means having to re-home her with an organisation that would be willing to work with her condition, then do so. Out of interest, which breeders did you get her from? Are they registered with the GCCF?

And as for getting the parasite, if you are not immunocompromised, then your body will probably be able to fight it off. The fact that neither you or your daughter hasn't gotten it despite Bluebelle having had the problems for a while means that you are probably safe. Do a steam cleaning anyway, just in case.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

What about considering food as a contributory factor? This would be my next move - if you've not already tried switching to novel protein I certainly would now.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

She has been on Royal Canin kitten, but been slowly moving her to Bozita. 

Who would take her off my hands? Surely no organisation would want a highly infected cat?

I got her from a breeder in Burgess hill. Yes regiestered with the GCCF. Him and his wife have only had two litters so far. He has washed his hands off it as his two cats tested negative for Giardia. But he only tested for that and not this new parasite.

So I am completely puzzled as cannot see how it has not come from his home. She is an indoor cat, has been from his to mine and that is it. She was not well from day one that I got her, something he denies.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I echo what Ianthi says. I would try Vet Concept single novel protein foods. They sell tins of reindeer or kangaroo. Canned horsemeat can be bought from other sources online.... 

The single novel protein VC diet has made such an improvement in the condition of of my cat with allergic dermatitis. And another forum member is finding it very helpful for her cat with IBD/colitis. 

Did you have no luck with getting Petplan Insurance to pay your costs? 

You can certainly sue the breeder in the Small Claims Court if you wish to. Make sure you have detailed reports from the vet as to when the illness started, the results of all tests etc, as well as the receipts for all the bills.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Where do you get this food from?

No luck with insurance :-(

I am thinking about a small claims court. Also someone said to get the RSPCA involved?

My main concern is what to do next though regarding this drug resistant parasite. It seems it is a different kettle of fish to Giardia. Have any of you ever heard or dealt with it? 

I am also due see my parents who live abroad next year and she needs to go into a cattery......not good if she has a parasite that is not curable :-(


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

If she has been showing symptoms of parasitic infection from Day 1 then you can be almost certain she got it from the breeders. Do you know where she was kept when she was there?

Also, I would not worry about the two parasites you mentioned. The Giardia and Coccidia (Cryptosporidium) that infect cats are not the same as the ones that infect humans. Unless you have HIV or something similar, then chances are very very low at you contracting the parasite.

According to this http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_cryptosporidium.html

Your vet would probably prescribe Clindamycin with Tysolin for the Cryptosporidium, but it depends there might be more up to date research on the best form of treatment here.

A good diet might help. Bozita may not be the best option though, however it still stands that you need to get rid of the parasites. Have you considered changing vets? It does not seem to me that they are very competent. It would be useful to know how much Panacur and Flagyl in terms of dosage was given to BlueBelle so far. Sometimes, they don't give enough and it simply comes back.

Patience is what you need the most in this situation, but I can understand the panic. If you want to re-home., as she is a BSH, why don't you try going to some BSH re-homing organisations? I know a couple who took in two Maine Coons who were poorly and had bacterial infection. You'll never know.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

You could report the breeder to the GCCF if he sold you an ill kitten. They have disciplinary procedures in place to deal with situations like these.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Thank you Alessa. 

You have calmed me down. The trouble is you google and this nightmare comes back at you that nothing can be done and we will all get very sick. 

She was the last kitten. He said he was going to keep her as she was so lovely but decided as they already had two cats not to and that he was sad to see her go. She had toothpast poo with a bit of blood in it the first day I got her and it stank! He denies this. Says her poo was normal when she was with him. 

His house was immaculate, I met the mother and she was lovely. He had some chinchillas in a big cage in the kitchen, where I met Bluebell and her mother. 

We were giving her 0.65ml of panacur but that was quite a few weeks ago when she was a lot smaller. The flagyl was 0.88ml for 8 days. He stomach was great when on it but as soon as we stopped it got worse. I thought we were dealing with T Foetus but that has come back negative.

I have been giving her a probiotic (Sanofor) to help encourage good bacteria in her stomach. 

Believe me I have sat on Zooplus scratching my head as to what I should feed her! I seem to be spending a small fortune on food. 

The last thing I want is to say goodbye to her, but my daughter is my priority and finances are zapped. Xmas has been cancelled! Maybe I should phone around about rehoming :-(

The vet is lovely but she does not know much about these parasites and said she wanted to get more advice about it before prescribing. She only prescribed 3 days of Panacur originally which after reading thought was too little.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi again,

Just read this:

Cryptosporidum are not truly Coccidia, drugs that would work on Coccidia do not have any effect on Cryptosporidium.
Out in the world, Cryptosporidium oocysts (the infective stage) are tough. They resist bleach and most other normal cleansers. Only prolonged exposure to ammonia or extreme temperatures can kill them. 

So it seems it is different to Coccidia and not treatable. 

What a pain!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Lots of panacur and a 10 day twice a day course of liquid flagyl worked for my boy when he had giardia. 

I wish you well because it's soul destroying. Before the we managed to get rid of it his poo was so disgusting sometimes that cleaning it up made me want to puke. He's a big fatso now.

My boy also had terrible wind and food sensitivities. The vet eventually said try him just on poached white fish which I ended up feeding him exclusively for 2 weeks and then gradually I added normal cat food a tea spoon at a time. It took weeks and weeks to change him onto a normal diet and he was very sensitive to foods for about the first year that I had him.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Yes when I started introducing this Bozita to her and only added a tiny bit her poo was awful...well if it can be anymore awful to what it normally is..

Giardia is not my main concern now. Yes a pain also but really worried about this drug resistent parasite Cryptospordium. I think this is going to be the major problem for us. Not sure how we wil get rid. 

It is getting me down now. We have had her since the end of September. I want to enjoy her and I am not at all. I know it is not her fault but it is soul destroying.


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

I really wouldn't worry . The parasites she has is treatable, just difficult to get rid off, but not impossible! With a competent vet, patience and steam cleaners, it will go away and you can finally enjoy her. It will not infect you and your daughter, as long as you are not immunocompromised (HIV and the like).

There's a Morphy Richards Steam Cleaner MORPHY RICHARDS 70455 COMPACT STEAM CLEANER, BLACK | eBay on ebay and it had good reviews on Amazon. This will help get rid of the Giardia and Cryptosporidium cysts. The problem is even if you get rid of the parasite in her stomach, she can re-infect herself again if there are cysts in the enviroment, so this is a very very important step.

For Giardia, the dosage of Panacur you gave her is not enough, you need two 5g syringes in total if you want to get rid of Giardia totally. I would check with another vet. That, and Metronidazole (Flagyl) at a longer dose.

For Cryptosporidium, whatever the vet ends up doing, it is worth doing your own research and be involved, because you can't really completely put everything in the vets' hands. They do not care about Bluebelle as much as you do. Here's a paper (page 5) which stated that Clindamycin and Tysolin is effective https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...tMJKxE&sig=AHIEtbQYGX7VhmfsHoCb5BftmJ9IpsvG2g and gave you the ideal dosage to give. I haven't found another paper with a newer treatment, so this might be the standard as of the moment, but as you can see, they DID manage to get rid of it. *It's not impossible, so hang in there!!!*

I am not familiar with Sanofor, but Pro-Kolin is good, and I can attest to it! Try supplements like Verm-X and add pureed pumpkin (1 tbsp) per day to her food. If you find that the single protein food is too expensive for you, try including RC Gastro Intestinal dry as a few members who has had kitties with diarrhea had a lot of success with this food. You have to make sure she takes the recommended amount of water though! Do you know how much she weighs now?

PS: I've dug up this old post from a person who has the same exact parasites as Bluebelle (Crypto, Giardia and Corona) it appears he only treated for G and let C resolve itself. I read another article stating that a healthy immune system should help naturally resolve Crypto. http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-heal...t-getting-sicker-sicker-4.html#post1062147961


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Alessa is right -- it you can get Bluebelle's gut health to a better state, so her own good bacteria are more active then it is quite likely the cryptosporidium will fall to a manageable level, and she will be able to live with it OK.

I would take her off the Bozita, as it can be associated with loose stools in a sensitive gut. As already advised by a previous poster, give nothing but poached white fish & the liquid it is cooked in. Also boiled or pot-roasted (in the oven) chicken breast and the cooking liquid, until the loose smelly stools stop. .

The Vet Concept single novel proteins come from Germany. You order on line.

Vet-Concept GmbH & Co KG

The site is in German, but if you use Chrome as your browser it will automatically translate to English. The 400 gram tins work out at about £1.70 each including shipping costs, so it is not expensive, and is very good quality food.

It is not possible to pay Vet Concept directly on line by credit, debit card or Paypal. VC sends you an invoice, and you pay it to the company's bank account. The best way is by using Global Web Pay, paying with a debit card. It costs £4.75 per transaction, so it doesn't add too much to the overall cost of the food. Once you are sure your cat likes the food, and gets on with it, placing a bulk order will bring down the costs to the figure I mentioned. (£1.70 for 400 grams).

Transfer Money Abroad

Definitely give it a try. Btw, I do have some 100 gram tins of the reindeer, and am happy to send you one for Bluebelle to try.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks for all your help. I will sit down later and have a look into things as at work at present. Yes a sample of that food would be great. Can you private message through this site?

The breeder has text me back (too scare to answer phone it seems) He said it was not his responsibility as none of his cats or the other kittens have shown signs of being unwell and he has wasted money as it is on tests on his cats. I asked if he had tested for the other things? He said I was manipulative! He said what do I expect him to do? 

So I have said I will take it further as there is NO WAY she has caught this anywhere else. He said she was perfectly healthy with him. Thats funny her eyes were sticky from day 1 and her poo was stinking and like toothpaste as soon as I got her home with bits of blood in it!

So I have said I will get a copy of vets report of everything that has happened and he can have a copy. 

I think I am banging my head against a brick wall though. He said it has ruined the 'fun' of breeding and he wishes he had never sold the kitten to us! It is like he is calling me a liar and I have caused all these problems. I suggested if he is not going to take this seriously then to stop breeding if he cannot accept responsibility.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Evem2806 said:


> He said it has ruined the 'fun' of breeding and he wishes he had never sold the kitten to us! It is like he is calling me a liar and I have caused all these problems. I suggested if he is not going to take this seriously then to stop breeding if he cannot accept responsibility.


What a:cursing::cursing: :incazzato::mad5::mad2: git!! I'm sorry but that just makes me so angry: he ahs no sense of responsibility, to his customers or his animals...you're ruining his 'fun'. 'Fun'?? Aghhhh!!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Eve, personally I wouldn't contact the breeder directly any more, as he is apparently not going to be co-operative, and all you are doing is making yourself feel more and more angry and upset when you encounter his unhelpful attitude. He is doing the famous trick of deflecting blame on to you -- it is his way of defending himself. If he has been *put off* breeding, then perhaps that is a good thing anyway! 

By all means get a copy of the vet reports and send them to the breeder, but otherwise I would go down the route of the Small Claims Court, as you were planning to do anyway. It is best to leave the arguments until you get to court, where they can be mediated and evaluated by the court. 

Yes, you can send PMs, but you have to have made a certain number of posts first -- I think it is about 25, not many and you are not far off that. By all means PM me your address when you can do so, and I will happily send you a tin of the Vet Concept reindeer flavour. Zooplus do single novel protein Kangaroo by Integra btw, if you wanted to try it. I am afraid I have used up all my Integra now.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks. I will see if I can PM. I phoned his vets as he gave permission to get results from his cats that says they are negative from Giardie...the tests that have wasted his money! 
Well the woman/girl was insulting. After telling her what has happened she said 'so have you spoken to a vet'....are you taking the p*ss. I have just spent 5 minutes telling you I have had numerous tests and vet bills. She then said the parasites have come from the environment! What my flat? Or from my cat that died months ago! Seriously? Has he been coaching her to say stupid things to me? At the end she says 'well we will inform the breeder one of his kittens has parasites'.....urm I think he knows thus giving me permission. 

i think court is the way to go. And yes sorry fir spoiling your fun of making loads of money and not giving a toss.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

I´m really sorry about your plight. It must be really frustrating for you. I would urge not to give up on your kitten and to look past her ill health now. I´m sure we can all support you through this and you will look back at this time and be glad you didn´t give her up.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

As the guy is a breeder I dare say he is well-known at his vets, and for all we know the woman/girl to whom you spoke might even be a personal friend of his. 

Also, the vet may be defensive if they feel any criticism is being implied of them (not that you were criticising them of course). It is certainly strange that if all the breeder's cats were tested, not one of showed positive for giardia etc It is not logical that only your kitten could have been infected!

Can the breeder's vet provide you with a photo-copy of the test results on his cats, so you can show it to your own vet for his comments? e.g. are the tests that were done always 100% reliable? 

If you go to court, you will need to take with you a sworn statement from an expert such as your vet, giving a scientifically based opinion as to how the parasitic infections are usually caught, i.e. ruling out the possible source as your flat, as you had no other pets living with you for months before you acquired Bluebelle. 

To cover yourself, perhaps even get a statement from your vet that your last cat was not infected with these parasites. (Not that I personally think the infection could have come from such a source, but it is best to close off every possible way out to your opponent!)


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Giardia is a pain to test for as notorious for giving false-negative results, beind cyclical in nature whch means the animal goes through extended periods of not shedding any parasites. So even if the breeder did test for Giardia, a single negative result is not terribly meaningful. Unless there is some super duper new test that I don't know about which can get around that? Anyone?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Tao2 -- that is very useful to know, and just the kind of thing that will help the OP's case if she decides to pursue it through the Small Claims Court. Do you have links to any official reports stating this is the case, which the OP could print out to use in evidence?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

With regards to Cryptosporidium, I would strongly recommend that you use Baycox. It is very very effective. It is difficult to buy in small amounts and can be very costly, but I found this supplier offering a generic form

Endocox/Bird Medicines/Lady Gouldian Finches and Supplies/Glamorous Gouldians

ETA: You really should contact the Ombudsman regarding the insurance. The insurance company are 'trying it on'. They will be ordered to pay all your vet bills. A friend of mine was successful in the same situation as yourself.


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

Giardia has an incubation period of 1-3 weeks after exposure to the parasite , so if she has been ill since Day 1, it's proof enough that she did not get it from your house. When did you first go to your Vet? If you went there within a week of getting her, you stand a very good chance.


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## princessa rags (Apr 30, 2010)

have they tested for tritrichomonas foetus as can have similar symtoms to giardia please have a read at ragatage.co.uk on feline health this breeder is also a vet


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Alessa you are quite right about the incubation period. Eve, how long had you had him before you took him to the vet and before first faecal sample was taken?

Chillminx, that info. was from my head, dredging back to the years when I did something more useful than spending too much time on this forum:w00t: ....Will have a look if I can find any links for Eve.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi,

I phoned the vets for advice within the 1st week and they said probably diet (he had her on adult whiskers) so to try changing it. I then got her looked at 12 days after getting her. She had blood all over the thermometer when they stuck it up her bum!

Anyway I think I am not going to be able to fight him at all. He spoke to my vet today as I gave him permission (saw her yesterday). He sent me a text:

I have spoken to you vet who cannot confirm the source of the infections and could have come from a varierty of sources (really where?!). She said Bluebell will recover in time (yep and at what cost?!). We have consulted with the GCCF and said we have fulfilled our role as a breeder and have gone beyond by getting out cats tested and contacting other owners. We have liaised with Trading Standards who have confirmed the above. I am sorry you have found yourself in this position and can understand you are upset but this is not down to us. We will no longer be in contact and don't need any more uneccessary distress. 

So I am stuffed.

Anyway financially not how much more I can take. Vet said to give her 5 days of Pancur and Flagyl, then wait two weeks and retest. 

But then what? More drugs then more tests. This last lot cost £108, so we will have spent £300 on tests by the next lot! I cannot do it anymore. I do not have all this spare cash. We could spend hundred more. 

And then the vet said she could have something else underlying, but only more tests could see this......

She said she wanted to get rid of Giardia first and then hopefully her body can battle the other parasite...but how long would that take? And of course she has the virus as well.

We are putting her in a cattery in July for two weeks. If she is still poorly then, what will happen?! I cannot put an infected cat in a cattery.

Sorry really peed off and stressed. I am peed off with the vet saying it could have come from a number of sources...what sources?!


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

Don't give up, Eve. Reading their text infuriates me! When did you call your vets exactly? You have to speak with your vet again and ask them to honestly document when you first called them up and what symptoms you have described on that first call, and then ask them to give the official medical record with the dates stated clearly. 

If I were you, I would go to another vet or expert on Giardia and ask if they could make a statement about the incubation period of Giardia. Contact GCCF yourself and report it. The breeder has the upper hand because he seems to have gotten in touch with everyone, including your vet . He makes it sound like you have no chance to go against him, but I would still try.

In any case, Bluebell is more important right now, so focus on the suggestions given on here as to how you can help her get better.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Alessa said:


> Don't give up, Eve. Reading their text infuriates me! When did you call your vets exactly? You have to speak with your vet again and ask them to honestly document when you first called them up and what symptoms you have described on that first call, and then ask them to give the official medical record with the dates stated clearly.
> 
> If I were you, I would go to another vet or expert on Giardia and ask if they could make a statement about the incubation period of Giardia. Contact GCCF yourself and report it. The breeder has the upper hand because he seems to have gotten in touch with everyone, including your vet . He makes it sound like you have no chance to go against him, but I would still try.
> 
> In any case, Bluebell is more important right now, so focus on the suggestions given on here as to how you can help her get better.


I second this ^ you need to make your voice heard,speakto you vet ask him/her why they said this..if they said this.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I did ask her yesterday for a report of everything. 

To be honest the way I am feeling I would happily rehome and walk away and cut my losses. This has caused me endless stress, money worries and sleepless nights. But I cannot even rehome her if I tried. 

Apologies if this sounds awful but I really do not want to do this anymore. I had a cat for 21 years and no issues. I know a pet is for life and issues can arise, but seriously £300 on tests alone, £400 on buying her, medicines and consultations on top of this, expensive food, loads of cat litter (due to cleaning it so much). I did not even pay the vet for the test and medicine yesterday as I did not have it  So next time I will owe them a few hundred pounds plus. All this in 12 weeks. 

What about the virus? The feline corona/entiritis. That could cause problems? 

I hope you can understand my distress.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Maybe the breeder is calling your bluff...... he may/may not be ? 



You most certainly need detailed documentation from your vet , i would'nt respond to the breeder anymore , just go about collecting the info you need , i understand you and your kitty are in an awful place at the moment but don't give up hope just yet ...... I really feel for you ...


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

Eve, it almost sounds like you want to say that you would rather just put her to sleep and be done with it? I hope I am wrong, but I can totally understand the stress!

Please, please please reconsider if you want to PTS. I have sent you a link of someone with the same exact trouble, and they got over it, don't give up. A steam cleaner is only £30, 10mL dosage of Panacur (how much you need if administered will only be £12), probiotics like Pro-Kolin will only set you back £13 for 30 mL. Verm-x is only £5. Get her Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal, and that is only £16 for 2 kg. Make sure she has plenty of water, even if it means administering the water via a syringe through the mouth, or better yet, giving her pureed pumpkin. This might be all you need to combat this, not even the vets, apart from needing prescription for anti-biotics! Please try? 

Feline enteritis is unlikely because if she has it, she will be gone by now, and feline coronavirus I would not worry yet because a lot of cats have it and are asymptomatic.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I have not even got the £30 for a steam cleaner or money to put her to sleep!

I seem to be thowing money left, right and centre. When does it stop? 

I think I need to sit and try to calm down as at the moment I am so angry and upset. 

I cannot even enjoy her at the moment I feel so stressed. If it was just me I think my stress levels would be a bit less, but when we have all these parasites and a 6 year old in the house it freaks me out.


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## Golgotha_tramp (Feb 27, 2011)

What does your breeder contract say about rehoming? Mine says that I need to contact my breeder first and return (I can only rehome to anyone other then the breeder with her written consent for the specific people).

Most breeders have the same in their contract, if so you have him over a barrel as he would need to take the kitten back. I'm not sayin this is what I would do if it were me but it seems like you are pretty set on getting rid of her.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

The Rc gastro intestinal dry is really good stuff iv tried it.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I hate to say this..... 

What contract? 

I have paperwork she is GCCF registered but that is it?

God I have been naive. I thought before buying her that the main thing was seeing the paperwork that she is registered.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Evem2806 said:


> I hate to say this.....
> 
> What contract?
> 
> ...


it will look like a a4 piece of paper the breeder would have asked you to sign it,they usually say things like if you dont want the cat anymore the cat must go back to them and things like you wont breed the cat.They would keep a copy and you would get one not every breeders has them.

Basically a good breeder would want to take the cat back but if they dont believe it did come from them then they wouldnt want to risk taking the cat back i guess.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Definitely do not have it and did not sign it.

Well I think he will be glad to see the back of me. He has no interest in taking her back. He said he was going to just before his test results came back negative then changed his mind.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Evem2806 said:


> Definitely do not have it and did not sign it.
> 
> Well I think he will be glad to see the back of me. He has no interest in taking her back. He said he was going to just before his test results came back negative then changed his mind.


Has he showed you the proof of the tests yet if not demand to do so as smeone said earolier he is probably calling your bluff.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Why have you not contacted the Ombudsman or Trading Standards about the insurance??? Are you just going to accept that they wont pay and and just have her pts?

Also I posted info on Baycox. Its little known by vets, but do your own research. It actually works!


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

There are so many things you have to think about in this situation, but you have to take most of these things one step at a time.

First, you have to get Bluebell to a better health. At the same time, if you want, feel free to post on the Cat Adoption part of the forums? Someone might want to adopt her or might know someone who really wants a GCCF-registered pedigree BSH and has no other cats in their house and are willing to nurse her back to health?

Second thing you might want to do is to look for another vet or expert who will be able to verify that Giardia has an incubation period of at least 7 days. That alone, and the fact that you contacted your vet within 7 days (provided your vet verifies this) is proof enough that she could not have gotten it from your house.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

As I see it, the OP has exhausted her finances - due to the fact that the insurance company are trying to 'cop out'. In order to go further with treatment, the OP needs to be reimbursed and an assurance that the rest of treatment will be paid for. 

However, this isnt going to happen without making a few phone calls. Its the key to everything.


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## Alessa (Oct 21, 2012)

Yeah, she definitely needs to look into getting reimbursement from the insurance company, but how long will it take until she gets the money, if she even gets it at all? She needs to buy the necessary equipment and medications to combat the parasites now, that or re-homing unfortunately. :001_unsure:


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Alessa said:


> Yeah, she definitely needs to look into getting reimbursement from the insurance company, but how long will it take until she gets the money, if she even gets it at all? She needs to buy the necessary equipment and medications to combat the parasites now, that or re-homing unfortunately. :001_unsure:


Trading Standards would be able to make a phone call - much quicker than the Ombudsman, especially given the urgency.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

I would suggest that the OP contacts these breeders, who have extensive knowledge of treatment with Baycox

Dazzledots Articles


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I will try and give trading standards or financial ombudsman a ring tomorrow. Should have done this ages ago, I suppose I hoped this would be over by now. 

Baycox. Looks interesting. How come the vet will not prescribe this?

If it works surely it is worth a try.

I just sat at the top of my stairs having some quiet time with kitty. It makes me so sad as sis happily purring away. To look at you would think nothing is wrong.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Evem2806 said:


> I will try and give trading standards or financial ombudsman a ring tomorrow. Should have done this ages ago, I suppose I hoped this would be over by now.
> 
> Baycox. Looks interesting. How come the vet will not prescribe this?
> 
> ...


Its not yet been approved for the use on cats/dogs. Its mainly used on chickens and pigs.

Give Dazzledots a call. Im sure they will be helpful. By the way, Ive used Baycox myself with success. You also need to be using a much longer dose of panacur. If you need any help composing a letter to the Ombudsman or TS, give me a shout. Firstly, make phone calls because its so urgent.


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## Miri (Oct 20, 2012)

I'm not able to offer useful advice here, but I've been following this thread and just wanted to wish you and Bluebell all the best in getting through this difficult and distressing time.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Eve, very good advice from Ang2. I see no reason why Petplan should be let off the hook from reimbursing you. Please do all you can to get this done.

Even with the outside chance they won't reimburse you can still take your case to the Small Claims Court. All you need is the factual reports from the vet who first saw Bluebelle, and tested and diagnosed her. As that vet has made clear they are being non-committal about source and incubation period, then there would be no point in you getting a written statement from that vet to produce in court, as it would not help your case. . 

Instead, get your written evidence of the diagnosis, and then find some documented reputable research on incubation period etc. for the parasites. 

Good luck.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi all,

I bit of promising news.

I contaced the GCCF and the lady was very helpful. She said she has not spoken to anyone and they certainly would not say to him what he text me about he has done everything right etc. She said no,no,no when I said she was fed adult whiskers at 10 weeks. She said as a reputable breeder he has a responsibility to offer to take her back, offer me a refund and offer to pay costs. She said to log an official complaint. Just need to get the vet to do me a report of what has happened.

Also spoke to trading standards (again breeder said they had told him he had done everything right). They said under the sales of good acts he has provided me with faulty goods and is not fit for purpose. They said to send him a letter recorded delivery stating this.

I looked at my phone bill and the first vet call I made was the next day after purchasing her.


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## Tao2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Whilst I hope you find a resolution that makes you feel happier Eve, the thought of Bluebell going back into the hands of that breeder is not comforting. I hope when you do get some resolution that you are going to name and shame him!!


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I do not want her going back there to be honest. 

I want him to pay up and accept responsibilty. 

He is a disgrace.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

In all fairness, he provided you with a months' free insurance. The insurance should have covered this! Its not really his fault either that they havent paid out. 

With regards to the giardia etc, his cats may not be showing symptoms. He may not have a clue that they are infected. 

Your first port of call is to sort out the insurance. What did TS say about the insurance?


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Ang2 said:


> In all fairness, he provided you with a months' free insurance. The insurance should have covered this! Its not really his fault either that they havent paid out.
> 
> With regards to the giardia etc, his cats may not be showing symptoms. He may not have a clue that they are infected.
> 
> Your first port of call is to sort out the insurance. What did TS say about the insurance?


This is your best route financially at this present time - you stated that your vet could not say where the parasites had come from - therefore Petplan cannot argue it is a pre-existing condition - therefore all your costs will be covered by the insurance as you had a BREEDERS cover note which is effective IMMEDIATELY not after 14 days - I appreciate you cancelled the insurance but this was only because Petplan gave you incorrect advice about not being covered.

Your kitten is beautiful and you are doing a great job in extreme circumstance - please dont let Bluebelle go back to the breeder if he cared he would have taken her back immediately - I known I would have done.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I confirmed wiith Petplan speaking to someone again today about the 14 day thing. I was incorrectly told about a 14 day period and that she was covered from day one....but as these major costs are outside that cover period I cannot claim a penny. What a pain the backside. I would have continued with the cover if Id known this. 

I am more cross I have spent £400 on a kitten that came with all these problems, putting our health at risk and he is in denial about it. This has come from somewhere and it most certainly has not come from my home. 

He should take some responsibilty being the breeder.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Petplan are fobbing you off - you only stopped the insurance because of THEIR bad advice - if they had confirmed you were covered when you went to the vets at 12 days you would have continued the insurance and would still be covered now - please please contact the ombudsman who will force Petplan to cover all your costs - they will not willingly admit they gave you bad advice.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I will give a call tomorrow. I have phoned so many people today at work....need to get on with some work 

I have put a latest photo up of her. She looks so well....


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Evem2806 said:


> I confirmed wiith Petplan speaking to someone again today about the 14 day thing. I was incorrectly told about a 14 day period and that she was covered from day one....but as these major costs are outside that cover period I cannot claim a penny. What a pain the backside. I would have continued with the cover if Id known this.
> 
> I am more cross I have spent £400 on a kitten that came with all these problems, putting our health at risk and he is in denial about it. This has come from somewhere and it most certainly has not come from my home.
> 
> He should take some responsibilty being the breeder.


I for one would like to see you take things all the way with that breeder looks like he has been talking out of his behind and try to dupe you into thinking there is nothing you can do.

Make sure you make that complaint to GCCF.
Make sure you make it known you have not seen the proof that he tested his cats,make sure if he does show some tests that they are for the cats in question.
Stick around on here too there is alot of people who can help you on your way through this process.
Keep your chin up cause there is every chance you can get this cat back to full health,even if you got your self a outdoor cat pen to put her in till shes clear.
As for pet plan they will try every trick up their sleve so not to pay up im not clued up with that side of things ang will know more id think.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

wicket said:


> Petplan are fobbing you off - you only stopped the insurance because of THEIR bad advice - if they had confirmed you were covered when you went to the vets at 12 days you would have continued the insurance and would still be covered now - please please contact the ombudsman who will force Petplan to cover all your costs - they will not willingly admit they gave you bad advice.


agree - and choose your words very cleverly maybe some one can help you word what needs to be said.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

oh she is so slim for a BSH


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Really? I thought she looked healthy as most kittens tend to be lean. 

Well not surprised if she is looking too lean then for a BSH as her stomach has been rubbish for weeks and weeks.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Evem2806 said:


> Really? I thought she looked healthy as most kittens tend to be lean.
> 
> Well not surprised if she is looking too lean then for a BSH as her stomach has been rubbish for weeks and weeks.


I´m comparing her with Merlin who is all flesh and no bone


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Evem2806 said:


> Really? I thought she looked healthy as most kittens tend to be lean.
> 
> Well not surprised if she is looking too lean then for a BSH as her stomach has been rubbish for weeks and weeks.


These are pics of 10 months old females of mine -


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

That´s what I had in mind. Your poor cat must be going through so much.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

merlin12 said:


> oh she is so slim for a BSH


I agree with you


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Eve, maybe the breeder didn't even get his cats tested, as you had such a strange defensive reaction when you rang the breeder's vet to ask about the results? 

I feel the breeder is not being straight with you. I do hope you will be able to pursue all the relevant aspects of this case. I know it will be time consuming, but it is a matter of principle, apart from anything else. I completely agree you should complain to the insurance ombudsman, on the grounds you only cancelled your policy because of the erroneous advice Petplan gave you.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

chillminx said:


> Eve, maybe the breeder didn't even get his cats tested, as you had such a strange defensive reaction when you rang the breeder's vet to ask about the results? .


For client confidentiality, except in exceptional circumstances reasons vets aren't permitted to discuss other clients' animals, test results etc. So I don't think you can reasonably regard his attitude as evidence. Sorry.

Did the breeder give him permission to do this?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Ianthi -- the breeder had given his permission to Eve to speak to his vet, and had provided the contact details, presumably letting the vet know that Eve would be phoning him. When Eve rang the breeder's vet she was met with an evasive unhelpful response. 

(Perhaps the breeder didn't tell his vet he had given permission Might make sense of the response Eve got)


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

chillminx said:


> Ianthi -- the breeder had given his permission to Eve to speak to his vet, and had provided the contact details, presumably letting the vet know that Eve would be phoning him. When Eve rang the breeder's vet she was met with an evasive unhelpful response.
> 
> (Perhaps the breeder didn't tell his vet he had given permission Might make sense of the response Eve got)


I thought it was the other way round that eve gave the breeder permission to ring her vet  maybe im not correct.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

We done both. He gave permission to speak to his vets. Then I gave permission for him to speak to mine which he done yesterday.
I spoke to my vet tonight and she said she had spoken to him but it was very brief and did not have much of a conversation.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Evem2806 said:


> > He gave permission to speak to his vets. Then I gave permission for him to speak to mine which he done yesterday.
> 
> 
> Yes, I thought I was right


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Evem2806 said:


> We done both. He gave permission to speak to his vets. Then I gave permission for him to speak to mine which he done yesterday.
> I spoke to my vet tonight and she said she had spoken to him but it was very brief and did not have much of a conversation.


Fair enough then. Even so he may not have felt comfortable discussing the issue with you and I'd imagine his loyalty would be towards his client!

Any breeder IMO should know that a negative test isn't conclusive proof the cats haven't got Giardia. Additionally even though it looks exceedingly likely he is the source, proving it is going to be the crux here......and he knows this!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Any breeder IMO should know that a negative test isn't conclusive proof the cats haven't got Giardia


It isn't but I've been in this situation where a kitten tested positive for Giardia some weeks after it had left me. I'd kept two from the litter and tested both of them and the mother twice - negative. I was lucky in that my buyer was very reasonable and crucially had kept up the insurance. This kitten had gone to a household where an aged cat had recently died. I paid the excess without argument but I honestly don't believe I was the source.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi,

That is interesting.

But I am 100% sure this is not from us. My old cat passed away at the beginning of May. Anything you read about these parasites say they would not survive that long. We have had all my carpets cleaned professionally before the kitten joined us as I always get them done in the summer. She had brand new litter tray, bowls, toys, bedding, everything. 

The kitten was not right with her poo from the day we got her, but when I got advice was told it was probabaly either dietry (he had her on adult wet Whiskers) or stress of leaving her mummy/home. Her poo stank and I mean stank. Her eyes were mucky from day one as well, but first of all the vet said it may be that she is young and unable to clean them very well. But she had conjunctivitis. 

Also he advertised her before 10 weeks old (well that was when I saw the advert) and I picked her up when she was 11 weeks. So what age did he let the rest of the kittens go? Now when I read the GCCF guidelines, any good breeder would let them go after 13 weeks. 

I just feel he owns a BSH, thought oh why not make a quick buck on breeding her, and not give a flying sh*t about what happens afterwards.

Now anther thing. He has Chinchillas in the kitchen in a cage when I met the mother and my kitten. What about them? Could they be source of infection?

What about the Feline Corona Virus/ Entiritis. Where is that from?


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

Also I have contacted Financial Ombudsman. They are contacting Allianz Insurance (who own PetPlan) to put in a complaint.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

havoc said:


> It isn't but I've been in this situation where a kitten tested positive for Giardia some weeks after it had left me. I'd kept two from the litter and tested both of them and the mother twice - negative. I was lucky in that my buyer was very reasonable and crucially had kept up the insurance. This kitten had gone to a household where an aged cat had recently died. I paid the excess without argument but I honestly don't believe I was the source.


Out of interest Havoc, when was the onset of symptoms?

In Eve's case though it does look as if the breeder is the source though given the time interval assuming of course the Giardia is responsible for the ongoing diarrhea. I'll have a look at all the posts here in more depth at some point.


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## Evem2806 (Nov 15, 2012)

I had my old cat for 21 years, 11 of that indoors. She was very old and surely if she had been riddled with two types of parasites these would have shown up over the years especially when her body was not in such great shape in old age? As I said 5 months was the timescale before getting kitty so cannot see how two types of parasites would be lurking in my home. And having kitty ill from day one. Just not possible to be sourced from here. I have read so much on it and the longest they can survive is in water for two months, outside of water not long. Main source is contaminated water or faeces from other animals.....


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Eve, as mentioned above I'll have a look through the posts here but I think it might be worth it if your vet consulted with a parasitologist in view of duration and apparent resistance. I've seen a few pathogens have been identified and you need to be sure which ones are responsible for the symptoms. Perhaps all or a combination!

In addition my own hunch with all this is, while some strains are more resistant than others and medications lend a hand in ameliorating symptoms, immune system plays a crucial role in all of this. Of course the difficulty with G is that it invades the small intestine thus interfering with absorption of nutrients, water etc so a sufferer is bound to be immune compromised as a result. The same applies to older animals who are asymptomatic carriers ( natural immunity) for years who succumb with an unrelated concurrent illness.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Any news on this OP?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Out of interest Havoc, when was the onset of symptoms?


I think the kitten was around 18-19 weeks old and had left at 13 weeks. He left here with no digestive problems at all and I'd actually been congratulating myself that there hadn't even been a hint of loose stools on weaning or worming with this litter. I immediately tested my household and then retested because of the initial negatives. I was honestly expecting it to have come from me as I have a multi cat household and the new owner didn't hence I paid their excess while awaiting test results.

What I hadn't been told was how recently they had lost their old cat - days before picking up the kitten. I suspect they started out with all the brand new stuff I'd sent in the kitten pack and then started using the old cat's things - cat beds, the large litter tray and food/water bowls for example. I'm not blaming them for doing this but it's the only explanation we could come up with between two vets, me and the owner. The whole diagnostic process was completely open between us all, after all if I had got it in my household I needed to do something about it.



> In Eve's case though it does look as if the breeder is the source


Agree completely. Just pointing out that Giardia does encyst and can therefore be a devil to eradicate in a normal pet household. From what we're hearing I'd put it on a par with ringworm in terms of the necessary hygiene and husbandry throughout the whole house.

and adding - I ran a full panel on the mother before breeding from her again the following year as I'm naturally risk averse


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

All these threads over the last few weeks about cats/kittens with runny tums led me to read old threads. I have read this one all through, scary stuff! But what happened.?? The OP never concluded the story! Did the cat get better? Did the insurers pay up? I cannot believe all the help and suggestions from the forum with no end to the story!


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

i hope it was a happy ending i just read it too, poor baby


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