# Stud fees



## Jachem (Feb 7, 2017)

Just after a bit of advice. Pre - mating of our cockapoo we met with friends who have a cocker about potential pairing. I showed Web page with stud fees ranging from £150-250 of local, proven dogs. I asked if they would be happy with this. They seemed to shrug it off and said 'let's see if it happens' as he was unproven. I did ask further about fees but, now in hindsight a nightmare, nothing was documented. My girlie had 5 puppies last week and all is going well. I have now had a text saying they have decided to have 'pick of the litter', but 'may not keep as we may sell it on'. I think this is since seeing how much they will be sold for. I have already agreed the sale of 3....but where do I stand and do they have this right?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

If there was no written Agreement between you, then no, the owners of the stud dog are not entitled to take a puppy.

Legally, the pups belong to you and they cannot take one without your consent.

I would offer them the stud fee and nothing more. 

With an unproven dog, it is usual to wait and see if a pregnancy results before a fee is paid. As you have a litter now, a fee should be payable.

If you do not want the owners of the dog to take a pup, then their only choice is the fee.


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## Jachem (Feb 7, 2017)

Thank you Sweety. Feeling horrible about this. Don't like upsetting people but they feel they have a right to choose new owners too. My dog is soooo gorgeous, we could sell the pups 5 times over. She is being a good mum too. They're only 9 days old too x


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Jachem said:


> Just after a bit of advice. Pre - mating of our cockapoo we met with friends who have a cocker about potential pairing. I showed Web page with stud fees ranging from £150-250 of local, proven dogs. I asked if they would be happy with this. They seemed to shrug it off and said 'let's see if it happens' as he was unproven. I did ask further about fees but, now in hindsight a nightmare, nothing was documented. My girlie had 5 puppies last week and all is going well. I have now had a text saying they have decided to have 'pick of the litter', but 'may not keep as we may sell it on'. I think this is since seeing how much they will be sold for. I have already agreed the sale of 3....but where do I stand and do they have this right?


This should have all been sorted before mating. TBH, £150 - £250 sounds very cheap for a health tested stud dog.


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## MarleyNMavis (Oct 16, 2016)

To be honest, I have always known that the general fee for stud, is pick of the litter. I have never bred dogs for sale purposes but to keep one of a good dogs bloodline. 

Yes, as stated by others, you should have definitely agreed the 'fee' before doing business, but as I stated, the unwritten stud rule is pick of the litter! It's not worth letting things turn nasty over a bit of money, as I've seen these things escalate way out of proportion.

But if you did state that you had a fee in mind originally, and he shrugged it off, then stick to what you said, moving the goals when the balls been kicked is a dirty trick by any standards. Good luck though!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

MarleyNMavis said:


> To be honest, I have always known that the general fee for stud, is pick of the litter. I have never bred dogs for sale purposes but to keep one of a good dogs bloodline.
> 
> Yes, as stated by others, you should have definitely agreed the 'fee' before doing business, but as I stated, the unwritten stud rule is pick of the litter! It's not worth letting things turn nasty over a bit of money, as I've seen these things escalate way out of proportion.
> 
> But if you did state that you had a fee in mind originally, and he shrugged it off, then stick to what you said, moving the goals when the balls been kicked is a dirty trick by any standards. Good luck though!


No.

A stud fee is the norm and certainly was when I was breeding. I never once took a pup, I charged a stud fee.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Sweety said:


> No.
> 
> A stud fee is the norm and certainly was when I was breeding. I never once took a pup, I charged a stud fee.


Same here I would never have a pup as a stud fee. The price should have been agreed before the mating took place and be paid at the first mating with an agreement as to what would happen if the pregnancy did not happen ie a free return mating at the next season or a refund of the price. Remember that you pay for the service of the stud and not the amount of pups he produces.

I have only ever once had a pup from a litter sired by one of my dogs but then I was paid a stud fee and then bought the pup when I decided I liked him but the agreement at the start was that we were paid a stud fee and IF there was a pup I liked I would take the pup and return the stud fee regardless of what price the litter sold for.

The dog you used was an unproven dog and so rather than looking for the srud fees for proven dogs you should be looking for unproven stud fees which are quite often either free or a nominal fee.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

MarleyNMavis said:


> To be honest, I have always known that the general fee for stud, is pick of the litter. I have never bred dogs for sale purposes but to keep one of a good dogs bloodline.
> 
> Yes, as stated by others, you should have definitely agreed the 'fee' before doing business, but as I stated, the unwritten stud rule is pick of the litter! It's not worth letting things turn nasty over a bit of money, as I've seen these things escalate way out of proportion.
> 
> But if you did state that you had a fee in mind originally, and he shrugged it off, then stick to what you said, moving the goals when the balls been kicked is a dirty trick by any standards. Good luck though!


The pick of the litter is certainly NOT the general fee for a stud. And this in itself is fraught with problems. WHOSE pick? What if none of the right sex?

This sounds like a very cheap stud free to me and most stud fees in most breeds I am familiar with are around the price of a puppy.

I guess it depends on why you picked an unproven stud dog over a proven one?

As you have not signed any contract then you are not forced to do anything.

The thing that might stymie you is the signature of the stud dog owner to confirm he sired this litter for KC registration purposes, if they refuse to sign.........................


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> The pick of the litter is certainly NOT the general fee for a stud. And this in itself is fraught with problems. WHOSE pick? What if none of the right sex?
> 
> This sounds like a very cheap stud free to me and most stud fees in most breeds I am familiar with are around the price of a puppy.
> 
> ...


But a Cockapoo X Cocker would not be eligible for KC registration anyway - or are you talking hypothetically? Apologies if you are.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

SusieRainbow said:


> But a Cockapoo X Cocker would not be eligible for KC registration anyway - or are you talking hypothetically? Apologies if you are.


Hypothetically................


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

The only place I have ever heard that the norm is 'pick of the litter instead of stud fee' is people playing breeder. "Family dog is cute so we must produce loads more of them....."

As said you have no contract, I would not let them take a puppy, especially when they are saying they 'may' sell it on. They are just in for the money it seems. Pups are worth more than the stud fee you are offering, so yes they want to sell the pup for more money.

Glad your girl is doing well.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

It used to be pick of the litter or stud fee. in the time I've bred the stud fee has only been about half the price of a pup. Having said that my last one was more than half the price of a pup and all together with everything I have paid out for I have virtual paid out full price for the one pup I have here.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Think pick of the litter is a thing of the ,past, but stud fees around the price of a pup seem about right.


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## lola belle (Mar 17, 2011)

Freyja is right in saying, no stud fee is paid to unproven dogs. Nominal fee in some circumstances but it's not the norm.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Sweety said:


> No.
> 
> A stud fee is the norm and certainly was when I was breeding. I never once took a pup, I charged a stud fee.


me too


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

no agreement no pup


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## lola belle (Mar 17, 2011)

A stud fee IS the "norm" for a proven stud boy. It was never the "norm" for an Unproven male. Pick of litter in lieu of a stud fee has always been practiced, definitely not by everyone who breeds though. I was just saying Freyja was right about what she had said.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Can we just clarify this.... This is a mating done without much of a process for choosing a stud, health testing either of the parents, contract or having an actual breeding plan. This is a mating that was done because the bitch is "sooooo gorgeous". You can talk about proven and unproven studs in the KC world, but when the stud is chosen because a friend has a "suitable" breed? Who cares about proven or unproven. There are literally no sort of regulations or even an "ethical code" for this sort of breeding agreements.


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## lola belle (Mar 17, 2011)

This is a mating of mongrels, so I doubt very much that health tests have been discussed before mating. It's about the stud fee or lack of it that I've been discussing.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

Just a little clarification re 'unproven'. Stud fees are rarely wavered ...nominal may be charged (but not by those with a Champion Stud lol) but generally 'unproven' just means that you won't have to pay up front (in case the stud proves to be shooting blanks). One the pups are born (or often up to two weeks old) then agreed Stud fee applies. With a 'proven' stud fees are often paid in advance.

Pick of litter has to be agreed beforehand and was generally prevalent when dogs were bred locally as pets although some owners of stud dogs will negotiate this (beforehand) when they are looking for one of their dogs offspring to bring on.

But as has been said this looks more of a casual affair ....

J


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