# Ultimate Recall - John Rogerson



## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Has anyone been on this course? Would be interested in views - we are struggling with recall in familiar areas (especially if there are Rabbits about). While realise there is no quick cure have been working with him since he was 7 weeks old and wondering if a different view/approach would help.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

I've done the course, and base my own recall training course on much of the techniques from John's course. 

When I went on it I was told to take 'the worst dog I could find' so I took at 8 year old Beagle (dog walking client) who had never been able to have offlead walks because despite hours and hours of practice in training, he still couldn't be relied on.

4 days with John and that dog was offlead for the rest of his life - which sadly ended this year - a good 3 years. We still had to 'work' quite hard to keep it up because he was older when he learned, but you couldn't do better for recall training in my opinion. John worked out very quickly we couldn't use a long line for Inky, he had to be running free.


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

thanks BoredomBusters, its good to hear feedback - there seems relatively little on the internet.

We use a long lead and 95% of the time he responds to the commands but he knows he has the lead on even if it is completely slack  

Once free (which includes our garden) which is not often, usually when he has been really good to commands, he goes into prey mode (and will jump all the fences - 5-bar gate high with long lead attached) and so its a matter of outsmarting him to catch him..i.e. working out where the rabbits are.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

CheddarS said:


> thanks BoredomBusters, its good to hear feedback - there seems relatively little on the internet.
> 
> We use a long lead and 95% of the time he responds to the commands but he knows he has the lead on even if it is completely slack
> 
> Once free (which includes our garden) which is not often, usually when he has been really good to commands, he goes into prey mode (and will jump all the fences - 5-bar gate high with long lead attached) and so its a matter of outsmarting him to catch him..i.e. working out where the rabbits are.


I would go as John likes to train "outside" the box, so you may find yourself in handcuffs etc 

Not going to say any more other than it is not the usual:

Command Your Dog
Leave your dog
Stop
Turn Round
Call your dog

John is very much into "real life" training rather than that for competition.

I have observed several courses run by others who have obviously been on his course! 

For those who may want details:

Ultimate Recall: 4 Day Course with John Rogerson
 Training a reliable, automatic, non-negotiable, reality recall
 Building block and foundation training of the recall
 Relationship/influence building in recall training
 The chasing/emergency recall
 Sit and/or down on recall
 Freeze/stop on recall/running wait
 Distance/direction control
 Calling dogs off of distractions
 Out of sight recall (owner hidden)
 Obedience/competition recall (dog is called from a stationary position)
 Free running recall (dog is called while in motion)
 Type "A" recall (dog re-joins his owner in motion)

JOHN RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ADJUST COURSE CONTENT BASED ON THE ABILITIES OF DOGS AND HANDLERS ENROLLED ON THE COURSE.

Dates for Ultimate Recall Course:

At Andover, England
7th-10th August , 2012; 4 day duration 9.30 am-4.00 pm
To register contact Pauline Wise at [email protected]

At Nottingham, England
26th  29th October, 2012; 4 days duration 9.30-4.00 pm (Note: New Date!)
To register contact Beverly Smith at [email protected]


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

BoredomBusters said:


> I've done the course, and base my own recall training course on much of the techniques from John's course.
> 
> When I went on it I was told to take 'the worst dog I could find' so I took at 8 year old Beagle (dog walking client) who had never been able to have offlead walks because despite hours and hours of practice in training, he still couldn't be relied on.
> 
> 4 days with John and that dog was offlead for the rest of his life - which sadly ended this year - a good 3 years. We still had to 'work' quite hard to keep it up because he was older when he learned, but you couldn't do better for recall training in my opinion. John worked out very quickly we couldn't use a long line for Inky, he had to be running free.


That is fantastic to hear that the course was so beneficial to you! 

I am booked on the one in Nottingham & really looking forward to it


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Well, I've booked it for me and the OH...hope my expectations aren't too high - but looking forward to a different approach 

Will see you there Cleo.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

CheddarS said:


> Well, I've booked it for me and the OH...hope my expectations aren't too high - but looking forward to a different approach
> 
> Will see you there Cleo.


Excellent, I will look out for you


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## Amy-manycats (Jun 15, 2009)

Just looking at this. What sort of training methods does he use? (basically dont want e collars and stuff!) and what is the course fee? I can't find it on his website.

It look slike something that could benefit my rescue.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

He uses what he calls 'emotions', treats, and toys, whatever works for your dog. 

The fees are usually on the PDF, or the website of the organiser. He doesn't set the fees to attendees, the 'hosts' do.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Amy-manycats said:


> Just looking at this. What sort of training methods does he use? (basically dont want e collars and stuff!) and what is the course fee? I can't find it on his website.
> 
> It look slike something that could benefit my rescue.


If I remember correctly it is £240 for the handler place and £100 for spectator place at the Nottingham course.

I think it is slightly more expensive down in Hants, but check with course provider. John only sets his OWN fees ie to the organisers, it is up to them what they charge the punters.

John does not use e collars..........  He is a KCAI.
HTH


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Prices Smokeybear says are correct.

I Use treats and withdrawal of priviledges so would only look for a trainer that had the same philosophy...although saying that this second I am tempted  as he has barked for an hour wanting to go out and chars rabbits and one sheep (he is hand reared and fights with the neighbours dogs ... But I don't want my pup doing that cause he will think all sheep are game!

)


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Just back, really enjoyed it and learnt loads...would caveat that like anything it is 80/20 and not all I agree, but the recall part is great and Cheddar was much better than expected...even won a prize 

Would definitely recommend...two caveats, one we have to keep on working on it I.e. it is not a quick fix and two, wish there was a follow up as it only goes so far...


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

It was fantastic wasn't it?! I have the rest of the rest of the week off work to put in to practice everything I learned. 

I didn't realise you posted here - I was one of the spectators (dark hair, purple anorak)


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

I enjoyed it, although like you I wanted a follow up, I wanted to do the chase recall really, but the dog I had wouldn't play with toys so we didn't try it.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

It was great to meet CheddarS and Cleo38, I like John's courses as he is pragmatic, down to earth and tells it like it is.

As I always say though, you can tell people stuff but you cannot make them listen.


There are no quick fixes to dog training, it is all about being relentless and consistent.

JR always talks a lot of sense.


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## Nicki85 (Oct 6, 2010)

I went to the course in August in Hampshire and really enjoyed it  I learnt a lot and I also learnt to relax when I'm walking Rusty... Before I'd be trying to keep an eye on him all the time, making sure he knew where I was going etc. Now I just walk and let Rusty keep an eye on where I am. 

I'd like to follow it up more with the chase recall as although it has improved (he recalled off a deer the other day!) there are still times when he is a bit slow. Usually when he is in a hedge putting up pheasants. 

More than anything I really enjoyed spending time with likeminded people and learning about dog stuff  Rusty loved it as well- all that attention although he raised eyebrows when he fell asleep and started snoring during the lectures!! 

Oh and I also learnt that RUsty's delay in recall is sometimes down to his inability to pin point where I am calling from... he runs around like a headless chicken. His hearing appears fine but those spaniel ears obviously do not help with locating where I am calling from.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

There are lots of opportunities to learn more about recalling your dog.

*Courses*

Chase Recall Masterclass

Date: Thursday 1st November 2012 Venue: Windsor, Berkshire Max handler places: 10
9.30am registration, 10.00am - 4pm Refreshments and a light lunch included

Following on from the fabulous Chase Recall Masterclass with Stella Bagshaw earlier this year , we are pleased to announce a date for the Chase Recall Practical Masterclass.

In this Masterclass we will be exploring:
How to tailor your training depending on your dog's scorpion level
How to build your training based on practical, workable exercises
How to move from one training level to the next in the real world
Perfecting the advanced "leave"
How, when and what signals to use
Line handling skills that make all the difference
Getting scent to work for you
Games to play with your dog on line
Dogs attending do not need to have a chase/recall issue, but it's a perfect opportunity if they do! Dogs do need
to be social with people and other dogs.

Please be assured that even if you don't bring a dog you will learn just as much from Stella's unique and innovative training approaches. Please note, the venue has a large hall and outside areas - we will be training in both, so please bring suitable outdoor wear.

Non handler place @ £130 (deposit £65) 
Handler @ £145 (deposit £65)

http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/Chas...calNov2012.pdf

How to Change Predatory Chase Behaviour in Dogs with David Ryan

When: Sunday 12th May 2013

Where: Otterbourne Village Hall, Otterbourne, Winchester SO21 2ET

Details: 10am- 4pm registration from 9.30am. £35 per person, lunch included

Throwing a ball for a game of chase is an enjoyable and rewarding experience for many owners and their dogs. For other owners canine chase behaviour turns into a nightmare when their dog chases cyclists, cars or sheep. When their dogs choose what to chase it can compromise owners financially, cause the target severe injury or even death, and threaten the life of the dog. This seminar looks at the reasons for the problem, the more effective solutions and how to control the behaviour.

David Ryan followed 26 years as a police dog handler and Home Office accredited training instructor with a postgraduate Diploma in Companion Animal Behaviour Counselling, with distinction, from Southampton University, an internationally recognised centre of excellence for animal behaviour studies. In 2008 he was certificated as a Clinical Animal Behaviourist by the prestigious Association for the Study of Animal Behaviour.

He was chair of the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors from 2009 to March 2012 and currently works as a companion animal behaviour consultant, being an independently vetted member of the UK Register of Expert Witnesses since 2008.

David has appeared in the internationally scheduled television series 'Crimefighters' focusing on his remarkable and fascinating work with police dogs, and as a guest on the BBC 4 programme "It's only a theory", discussing how dogs have evolved to bark. His dog behaviour articles have appeared in publications as diverse as the Daily Telegraph, Woman's Own, Your Dog and Veterinary Times.

He has been invited at various times to lecture to the Companion Animal Behaviour Therapy Study Group, BSc Animal Behaviour Students at Bishop Burton College and Myerscough College, and Pet Rescue/rehoming Centres, including Battersea Dogs and Cats Home, Merseyside Dogs Trust and Wood Green Animal Shelter. He is currently a guest lecturer on Newcastle University's MSc in Applied Animal Behaviour and Welfare.

David's unique blend of practical experience and theoretical knowledge of canine behaviour fuel his particular interest in inherited predatory motor patterns and the lengths to which pets will go to find a way to express them, usually despite their owners' best efforts

Events - Positive Training for Canines

*Books*

Stop! How to control predatory Chasing in Dogs
by David Ryan

Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts 
By Clarissa Von Reinhardt

Total Recall
By Pippa Mattinson

Teach your Dog to Come When Called
By Erica Peachey

*DVDs*

Really Reliable Recall 
by Leslie Nelson

Training the Recall
By Michael Ellis

Your clever dog: Getting your dog to come when called 
by Sarah Whitehead

Does your dog whizz back to you as soon as you call his name?
Can you call him to you even when there are other dogs or distractions? Teaching your dog to come to you when you call is the cornerstone of training and the gateway to allowing him more freedom in the park.
If your dog has selective deafness, ignores you in the garden or the park, or would rather play with other dogs than come when you call, this specially designed training session is for you.
Ideal for starting out with puppies or rehomed dogs, and also for dogs that ignore you or are slow to come when called, despite previous training. 
Including:
• How to know what's rewarding for your dog and what's not
• Five times when you shouldn't call your dog!
• Using your voice to call versus using a whistle
• What to do if you call and your dog doesn't come to you
The pack contains: A clicker, long line (worth £10), training manual, instructional DVD: 55 mins approx running time including Bonus trick, Bonus Training Session, Intro to Clicker Training, Q & A with Sarah

Dogtrain.co.uk

*Website articles:*

http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/RECALL.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/reliable_recall.pdf

Deposits into the Perfect Recall Account

List of Reinforcers

Distractions For Your Recall

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2010/06/recall-collapse/

How to Create a Motivating Toy

http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_files/factsheets/Training a whistle recall.pdf

Teaching Come « Ahimsa Dog Blog

How do I stop my dog chasing?

http://www.pawsitivelydogs.co.uk/recall.pdf

Train a

Teaching Your Dog to "Come When Called" | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

Become More Exciting Than a Squirrel: Teaching a Reliable Come When Called | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

smokeybear said:


> It was great to meet CheddarS and Cleo38, I like John's courses as he is pragmatic, down to earth and tells it like it is.
> 
> As I always say though, you can tell people stuff but you cannot make them listen.
> 
> ...


Nice to meet you as well - thanks so much for recommending this course 

I have sat down today & listed all areas I think improvements/changes can be made.

We started off today completely differently - took each dog out separately (am off work this week so have time) & worked with recall using their breakfast .... what a surprise, spot on every time!

I think Toby was gutted that he didn't get a bowlful of food when he got home (he is always hungry!)

We are going out later (new place) & will do some more practices. Unfortunately I have no one I can ask to come with me as everyone I know works but have a helper for the weekend.

At the moment both dogs are so happy I am home they aren't leaving my side. Squabbles nearly broke out over who was going to next to me last night which was very flattering so I hope I can build on this & time away from them has worked to my advanatage


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Lucky Cleo, I haven't got the week off, but we have a good start. I have realised that Cheddar is scared or losing me  this evenings walk at dusk (so bad time for wildlife) was in a new location and he hardly left my side and I didn't say a word when he did point just carried on walking and he ran back!

Was really enjoyable course and sorry If Ched made too much noise, we did try and keep him quiet but he is very vocal (although not as bad as Max)...

Thanks for recommending SB and great to meet you all and learn from you. I have hope as he did win the stay prize so there is hope


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

There is always hope, when I had my first Weimaraner people used to hide....... I was such an plonker!


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> There is always hope, when I had my first Weimaraner people used to hide....... *I was such an plonker*!


I cant believe you have ever been anything remotely like a 'plonker'!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Ha ha, I know what you mean SB...I do question what I have let myself in for but he is also excillerating and a gorgeous boy.

I am seriously thinking of the sign on the door...when a delivery man came while he barked he sat and watched as the person was not interested...then the neighbour came round and he was wild...I had to throw him into his crate 

Think I need 24/7 training...and maybe Cheddar can join


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I just got my confirmation email for John's CSI course next Sept - am looking forward to it already!


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> I just got my confirmation email for John's CSI course next Sept - am looking forward to it already!


See you there then as so did I!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I so want to go on the ultimate recall course. Stupid bloody army sending us to Germany


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Come back for a holiday, I understand as my OH is in the Army as well...however only in Birmingham


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Btw after today have realised there is a need for a new course...teaching your dog not to dig in the garden and then jump on the cream sofa!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

CheddarS said:


> Btw after today have realised there is a need for a new course...teaching your dog not to dig in the garden and then jump on the cream sofa!


LOL, Roxy was so pleased to see me that she dug up her raw hide chew she had buried previously. We now have yet another large hole right in the middle of the garden 

Still, at least our sofas are ruined already - the cats so thoughtfully sorted that out for us


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

CheddarS said:


> Come back for a holiday, I understand as my OH is in the Army as well...however only in Birmingham


That would mean either leaving Spencer with hubby, in which case I'd need more than a recall course to sort his behaviour out, or bringing him with me and as I don't drive that's hellishly expensive :cryin:

Twice hubby's put in a posting preference for UK mainland. First time we got Ireland (never, ever, EVER again!) and now Germany. When he asked for Germany he got UK mainland


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Know what you mean Sarah, hoping our next posting will be Midlands but will guess we will be weekly commuting again 

Cleo, he has gone mad since we got back...walks have been excellent, but normal routine and in the house he has been a nightmare! Think clock changes have not helped as have had to adjust walks


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Hey SB & Cleo...see you next September, we have one handler and one observer place. We are really looking forward to it. Needed to check dates hence being so slow.

But the really good news is that Ched was in the Kennels for a couple of days ( I had to go to London) and he got a top report. How in the last couple of weeks he has matured. He is the only non-winey Weimie they have and they were impressed at how much better his commands were and stated recall ( I hadn't told them we had been on the course) being brill! I am shocked and so pleased . His concentration is just so much better...not all perfect, we had a rabbit moment but I can see progress.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Looking forward to seeing you all (and Cheddar) next year when and it all sounds good! Fab news!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Thanks...I know it is all small steps, but he has been soo good this week. 

I do an outdoors challenges course and he passed 6 elements in one session. He has never done more than one, which is frustrating cause I know he can do them.

In addition, he went to two different vets (one for an eye check up and two for his annual jabs) and they both said he was the best behaved Weimie they have ever had. Either they have not had many before or he was good 

Don't get me wrong I know he is naughty and badly behaved but we are all trying...they only tell you so much in books on breeds


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

You learn the most from a difficult dog.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

CheddarS said:


> Hey SB & Cleo...see you next September, we have one handler and one observer place. We are really looking forward to it. Needed to check dates hence being so slow.
> 
> But the really good news is that Ched was in the Kennels for a couple of days ( I had to go to London) and he got a top report. How in the last couple of weeks he has matured. He is the only non-winey Weimie they have and they were impressed at how much better his commands were and stated recall ( I hadn't told them we had been on the course) being brill! I am shocked and so pleased . His concentration is just so much better...not all perfect, we had a rabbit moment but I can see progress.


Am really looking forward to the course already & meeting up with everyone again!

Am so pleased to hear your good news about Cheddar, it sounds as if you are making such good progress 

We have had 100% success on our recalls so far. We also had a 'rabbit moment' but Roxy was leashed (nearish a house with an open garden) & I have no doubt she would have been off but she didn't get a chance to & sat when I told her to 'leave it'



smokeybear said:


> You learn the most from a difficult dog.


Isn't that the truth


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> That would mean either leaving Spencer with hubby, in which case I'd need more than a recall course to sort his behaviour out, or bringing him with me and as I don't drive that's hellishly expensive :cryin:
> 
> Twice hubby's put in a posting preference for UK mainland. First time we got Ireland (never, ever, EVER again!) and now Germany. When he asked for Germany he got UK mainland


What was wrong with Ireland?!! Don't tell me it was the rain....


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Ha ha, I am looking forward to the course as well, it is so far away!

I have however learnt that the problem is probably not Cheddar but me. Not helping is his really strong prey instinct (comes from his dad, cause his sister is just the same but mum is more level) but firm consistent training has really helped...now when he grabs me (very rarely) he knows its wrong and goes down with no issue 

Did private agility lesson today, and only had a couple of 'incidents'...one went running to hedge in hunting mode, and another he decided to go through the tunnel without permission...LOL. He is not ready for group classes as gets so bored but it is definitely progress!

I suppose it doesn't help that I am looking for perfection and he is still only 12 months old. . Teenager!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

erinn said:


> What was wrong with Ireland?!! Don't tell me it was the rain....


Nah, more the circumstances I was stuck in. Due to not being able to drive and certain security measures I was basically housebound for close to 2 years.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

It's going to be a right little PF meet because i'm going on this course too! Well, I hope I got my cheque sent off in time!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Ha ha, it is really popular...but sounds fun. I apologise now for the loud disobedient Weimie


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I'll have a loud wirehaired pointer so you wont be alone!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

That is good...but think SB and Cleo will think no one is as bad as Cheddar (well maybe Max was louder).


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

CheddarS said:


> That is good...but think SB and Cleo will think no one is as bad as Cheddar (well maybe Max was louder).


LOL, if you had met Roxy a year ago she would have made Max look like he was shy & retiring!!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

So I have hope, as max is 3 and Cheddarkins is just 1


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

So we are getting close...who from PF is going to be there and are you excited?

I am really looking forward to it, but as has become common am worried at how Cheddar will cope. He can be brill or a nightmare. Also usually I train without my OH and he will be there, this is not a problem other than the dog idolises him...cause he gets spoilt


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I shall be there for 4 days of R and R, a meet up with an old WT mate and a few others! Hope the weather stays fine!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

will send C off with you to put him on his place!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Just commented on FB but although I am really looking forward to the course I'm starting to get nervous of how much Roxy & I will show ourselves up 

Silly I know, I've worked so hard with her lately but we still have a lot to improve, just hope that she isn't anxious about the new environment (we are staying at a local B&B) & gets too stressed.


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Yes Cleo, know how you feel. To me it is all the waiting around and discussion (which I really enjoy but don't think Ched understands), it gives him time to worry and play up. :mad2: think it means you spend more time on keeping him in control than hearing what is going on.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

CheddarS said:


> Yes Cleo, know how you feel. To me it is all the waiting around and discussion (which I really enjoy but don't think Ched understands), it gives him time to worry and play up. :mad2: think it means you spend more time on keeping him in control than hearing what is going on.


At least you could have Cheddar in the room, I don't think I could with Roxy so she will be confined to the car for everyone's sake!!

Am hoping I'm worrying too much ...... but I don't think so!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

We will try him in the room, but want to strategically position ourselves so we can leave if he becomes a pain. 

Happy for Cheddar and Roxy to meet up before it starts if it would be helpful. He is generally slow burn with GSDs, but if we don't push it he is fine. I on lead walk with two each week and the white one he originally was terrified of and now they walk side by side . The other one he loves.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

CheddarS said:


> We will try him in the room, but want to strategically position ourselves so we can leave if he becomes a pain.
> 
> Happy for Cheddar and Roxy to meet up before it starts if it would be helpful. He is generally slow burn with GSDs, but if we don't push it he is fine. I on lead walk with two each week and the white one he originally was terrified of and now they walk side by side . The other one he loves.


Roxy met her first Weimeraner a few months ago & she was most impressed at first; a big, bouncy, loud dog called Gunner ....but he was terrified of water so she lost interest in him


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Well he is as well  although he looks longingly at all dogs who swim. He has progressed and now wades to his knees...that is quite deep as he has long legs.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

CheddarS said:


> Well he is as well  although he looks longingly at all dogs who swim. He has progressed and now wades to his knees...that is quite deep as he has long legs.


LOL, Roxy loves the water so Gunners fear was such a disappointment for her. She will swim all day if allowed & loves it. The first time she tried was hilarious; she tried to run in the water so made lots of splashes but didn't actually get anywhere.

Now she's quite the expert.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm really envious! I keep checking for future dates but there's nothing in 2013 in the UK yet, just Canada and the RI. 

I really look forward to hearing about it when you've been!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

missnaomi said:


> I'm really envious! I keep checking for future dates but there's nothing in 2013 in the UK yet, just Canada and the RI.
> 
> I really look forward to hearing about it when you've been!


You will probably hear that everyone's enjoyment was spoiled by an annoying woman & her equally annoying GSD!


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

When I did it, dogs were kept in cars during the discussions inside - they will need the break, but I did it in Andover, so the venue might have different rules.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> You will probably hear that everyone's enjoyment was spoiled by an annoying woman & her equally annoying GSD!


I don't care, I am still coming!


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

BoredomBusters said:


> When I did it, dogs were kept in cars during the discussions inside - they will need the break, but I did it in Andover, so the venue might have different rules.


You are correct. I attended at the Nottingham venue in April 2012 and no dogs were in the room for discussions. I seem to recall that was a rule imposed by the venue as it's a scout camp and doesnt usually allow dogs at all.

I am looking forward to it but was on the winning team last time so the pressure is on! The night tracking is quite spooky, especially if you get the one which goes down into Harlow Wood!

And seriously, I wouldnt worry about your dogs showing you up. At the end of the day everybody there is a 'dog person' so should be understanding.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Night tracking is fab, especially if there is a bite in it for the dog!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> You are correct. I attended at the Nottingham venue in April 2012 and no dogs were in the room for discussions. I seem to recall that was a rule imposed by the venue as it's a scout camp and doesnt usually allow dogs at all.
> 
> I am looking forward to it but was on the winning team last time so the pressure is on! The night tracking is quite spooky, especially if you get the one which goes down into Harlow Wood!
> 
> And seriously, I wouldnt worry about your dogs showing you up. At the end of the day everybody there is a 'dog person' so should be understanding.


Dogs were in the room for the total recall in Nottingham . 
think we are going to have fun!


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

Now I really wish I was coming


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

CheddarS said:


> Dogs were in the room for the total recall in Nottingham .
> think we are going to have fun!


But i'm sure that was at a different location the the CSI. Pretty sure the Ultimate Recall was at Bestwood, this is at Blidworth.


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> But i'm sure that was at a different location the the CSI. Pretty sure the Ultimate Recall was at Bestwood, this is at Blidworth.


Yeah was...it was also freezing, and I for one would not have been particularly happy keeping him in the car for long periods. He does not tolerate the cold (or hot) very well.

Strange to use a place that is not dog friendly


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

My dogs are used to being in the car for long periods.

When I had shorthaired Weimaraners so were they; they never appeared cold; if cheddar is put an equafleece on him.

Most dogs will appreciate the "downtime" afforded them over 4 days, I know I certainly do!


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> My dogs are used to being in the car for long periods.
> 
> When I had shorthaired Weimaraners so were they; they never appeared cold; if cheddar is put an equafleece on him.
> 
> Most dogs will appreciate the "downtime" afforded them over 4 days, I know I certainly do!


He is getting better and has an equafleece, but he was less than a year last year and not used to being in the car!

Downtime Cheddar...ha ha, it will be me that needs it!


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## Johndt (Mar 21, 2015)

I have recently been reading some courts papers where John Rogerson gave "expert" evidence.He declared two American Bulldogs that bit a boy who climbed over a fence to enter a private garden as dangerous and needing to be destroyed.Mr Rogerson managed to do this without even seeing the dogs.
Mr Rogerson stated in his evidence that an American Bulldog and an American Pitbull Terrier were the same breed.He also stated that some people say that the American Bulldogs have the head of an alligator and the body of a python although despite searching the Internet I haven't managed to find anyone yet who has said that.Mr Rogerson also stated that an American Bulldog can jump over a 6 foot high fence from a standing start( the official world record for a dog jump is actually 5 foot 6 inches at a run by a Greyhound) 
The evidence of Mr Rogerson resulted in the court ordering a destruction order against the dogs but luckily do to the efforts of the owner this was never done.
At the moment changes are being made to the dog laws to extend the dog laws to private property .The Government with the help of unqualified experts like Mr Rogerson are trying to make it illegal if your dog bites a trespasser.They were going to make an exemption for householder's whose dogs bit trespassers but it was objected to because it would have breached the trespassers human rights.What about dog owners human right to own a dog in the comfort of his own home?


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2015)

Johndt said:


> I have recently been reading some courts papers where John Rogerson gave "expert" evidence.He declared two American Bulldogs that bit a boy who climbed over a fence to enter a private garden as dangerous and needing to be destroyed.Mr Rogerson managed to do this without even seeing the dogs.
> Mr Rogerson stated in his evidence that an American Bulldog and an American Pitbull Terrier were the same breed.He also stated that some people say that the American Bulldogs have the head of an alligator and the body of a python although despite searching the Internet I haven't managed to find anyone yet who has said that.Mr Rogerson also stated that an American Bulldog can jump over a 6 foot high fence from a standing start( the official world record for a dog jump is actually 5 foot 6 inches at a run by a Greyhound)
> The evidence of Mr Rogerson resulted in the court ordering a destruction order against the dogs but luckily do to the efforts of the owner this was never done.
> At the moment changes are being made to the dog laws to extend the dog laws to private property .The Government with the help of unqualified experts like Mr Rogerson are trying to make it illegal if your dog bites a trespasser.They were going to make an exemption for householder's whose dogs bit trespassers but it was objected to because it would have breached the trespassers human rights.What about dog owners human right to own a dog in the comfort of his own home?


What?! 
Did the dogs climb in to the childs yard or did the child climb in to the dogs yard? 
Either way, what does any of this have to do with training a recall?

And many dogs are more than capable of scaling over well over 6 feet. To get in to a fenced area the dog doesnt need to make a clear jump, the dog just has to be able to scale the obstacle. Which 6 foot is not that hard for a decent sized dog. Im pretty sure mondio ring palisades are way taller than that and dogs scale them all the time.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

My last dog could get over a 7ft fence from a stand still very easily if he thought it worth the effort. Perhaps the record for jumping an obstacle without touching it is 5ft 6 but there are tons of dogs out there who can and do scale fences and other obstacles much higher. 

And none of this has anything to do with teaching a reliable recall anyway


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Johndt said:


> I have recently been reading some courts papers where John Rogerson gave "expert" evidence.
> 
> That would be because he is a dog expert in the court of law
> 
> ...


Why are you on here posting to slander John Rogerson


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

As for the recall course - I am filling in my application this week to take Targ in July to see if we can get a semblance of a reliable recall in him


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2015)

Phoolf said:


> As for the recall course - I am filling in my application this week to take Targ in July to see if we can get a semblance of a reliable recall in him


Oh, Im interested to see how that goes and what pointers he gives for Targ


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Oh, Im interested to see how that goes and what pointers he gives for Targ


Yes indeed :lol: I figured he would be more challenging for me than Kes so hopefully I can implement everything with her afterwards - Plus Targ is just a lot more patient with waiting around and long days - I don't think Kes would be able to tolerate with the frustration

I'll be reporting back as to whether you can do the impossible and give a Tornjak a recall


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## Johndt (Mar 21, 2015)

Phoolf said:


> Why are you on here posting to slander John Rogerson


Mr Rogerson's exact quote in regards to American Bulldog was;
"The American Bulldog is a larger and more powerful version of the pit bull terrier which is covered under the banned breeds.In the early 1970's the American Bulldogs were registered under the name American Pit Bulldog.Because of the bad publicity surrounding the breed two enthusiasts in the USA got together and decided to re-name their dog American Bulldogs.I understand it is possible to contact a breeder in the USA and get them to register one of their Pit Bull Terriers as an American Bulldog in order to legally import it"
As the owner of an American Bulldog X I would have thought that you were aware of the difference between an American Pit Bull Terrier and an American Bulldog.
As to you having your dogs destroyed or permanently muzzled if they bit a trespasser. Someone once point out "Dogs are territorial.Dogs bite What do you expect them to do if someone enters their territory? Send them a solicitor's letter?"
Hopefully dog owner's like yourself who appear to support the Government's plan to penalise dogs and dog owners whose dogs bite trespassers are in a minority


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2015)

Johndt said:


> Mr Rogerson's exact quote in regards to American Bulldog was;
> "The American Bulldog is a larger and more powerful version of the pit bull terrier which is covered under the banned breeds.In the early 1970's the American Bulldogs were registered under the name American Pit Bulldog.Because of the bad publicity surrounding the breed two enthusiasts in the USA got together and decided to re-name their dog American Bulldogs.I understand it is possible to contact a breeder in the USA and get them to register one of their Pit Bull Terriers as an American Bulldog in order to legally import it"
> As the owner of an American Bulldog X I would have thought that you were aware of the difference between an American Pit Bull Terrier and an American Bulldog.
> As to you having your dogs destroyed or permanently muzzled if they bit a trespasser. Someone once point out "Dogs are territorial.Dogs bite What do you expect them to do if someone enters their territory? Send them a solicitor's letter?"
> Hopefully dog owner's like yourself who appear to support the Government's plan to penalise dogs and dog owners whose dogs bite trespassers are in a minority


Depending on your understanding of the history of the development of our modern APBT and modern AmBulls, Mr. Rogerson is not incorrect. Do you have a source for that quote? Context matters too, and Id be interested to see the context 

If someone were to enter my dogs territory I would expect them NOT to bite. That someone could be an elderly person with dementia who is lost, that person could be a wayward toddler who wandered off, that person could be an emergency personnel worker coming to my aid.

FWIW, my dogs are both guardian breeds.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Johndt said:


> Mr Rogerson's exact quote in regards to American Bulldog was;
> "The American Bulldog is a larger and more powerful version of the pit bull terrier which is covered under the banned breeds.In the early 1970's the American Bulldogs were registered under the name American Pit Bulldog.Because of the bad publicity surrounding the breed two enthusiasts in the USA got together and decided to re-name their dog American Bulldogs.I understand it is possible to contact a breeder in the USA and get them to register one of their Pit Bull Terriers as an American Bulldog in order to legally import it"
> As the owner of an American Bulldog X I would have thought that you were aware of the difference between an American Pit Bull Terrier and an American Bulldog.
> As to you having your dogs destroyed or permanently muzzled if they bit a trespasser. Someone once point out "Dogs are territorial.Dogs bite What do you expect them to do if someone enters their territory? Send them a solicitor's letter?"
> Hopefully dog owner's like yourself who appear to support the Government's plan to penalise dogs and dog owners whose dogs bite trespassers are in a minority


And how is any of that history incorrect  Maybe my reading comprehension is off today but I can't see how you manage to read from that that Rogerson is saying APBT and Am Bulls are the same dog

A bite is different to a maiming - care to share with us what the injuries that this boy sustained were?


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Johndt said:


> who appear to support the Government's plan to penalise dogs and dog owners whose dogs bite trespassers are in a minority


Do you have a very slow internet connection ? You realise these changes came into effect on 13 May 2014.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

ouesi said:


> If someone were to enter my dogs territory I would expect them NOT to bite. That someone could be an elderly person with dementia who is lost, that person could be a wayward toddler who wandered off, that person could be an emergency personnel worker coming to my aid.


This. I don't want my dog biting anyone who comes onto his territory. And in the UK dog bites on private property are covered by the law, being on your own property does not give your dog the right to bite someone entering. Dogs don't know the difference between a burglar or rapist and a child climbing over the fence to get a ball or a window cleaner coming to do the windows.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Johndt said:


> I have recently been reading some courts papers where John Rogerson gave "expert" evidence.He declared two American Bulldogs that bit a boy who climbed over a fence to enter a private garden as dangerous and needing to be destroyed.Mr Rogerson managed to do this without even seeing the dogs.
> Mr Rogerson stated in his evidence that an American Bulldog and an American Pitbull Terrier were the same breed.He also stated that some people say that the American Bulldogs have the head of an alligator and the body of a python although despite searching the Internet I haven't managed to find anyone yet who has said that.Mr Rogerson also stated that an American Bulldog can jump over a 6 foot high fence from a standing start( the official world record for a dog jump is actually 5 foot 6 inches at a run by a Greyhound)
> The evidence of Mr Rogerson resulted in the court ordering a destruction order against the dogs but luckily do to the efforts of the owner this was never done.
> At the moment changes are being made to the dog laws to extend the dog laws to private property .The Government with the help of unqualified experts like Mr Rogerson are trying to make it illegal if your dog bites a trespasser.They were going to make an exemption for householder's whose dogs bit trespassers but it was objected to because it would have breached the trespassers human rights.What about dog owners human right to own a dog in the comfort of his own home?


1 To begin with we only have YOUR word that any of the above is true

2 Many dogs can clear a 6ft fence from a standing start including cocker spaniels, springer spaniels, collies, GSD, Rottweiler, Dobermann, BSD, Labrador, the list is endless. They do it all the time in Working Trials where dogs must scale a 6ft fence, wait in a designate position on the other side and then return!

3 To call John "unqualified" is so laughable that I can hardly type this post

4 The laws have been in place for some time now

5 There is scope for non prosecution in the event of trespass

The crediblity of your post is severely undermined by your lack of knowledge and experience not to mention stupidity.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Johndt said:


> Mr Rogerson's exact quote in regards to American Bulldog was;
> "The American Bulldog is a larger and more powerful version of the pit bull terrier which is covered under the banned breeds.In the early 1970's the American Bulldogs were registered under the name American Pit Bulldog.Because of the bad publicity surrounding the breed two enthusiasts in the USA got together and decided to re-name their dog American Bulldogs.I understand it is possible to contact a breeder in the USA and get them to register one of their Pit Bull Terriers as an American Bulldog in order to legally import it"
> 
> *The fact is that many people do this, they also call APBTs "Irish Staffies" etc*
> ...


Please acquaint yourself with the law and the two tests any potential prosecution have to pass.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Is there only the one recall course a year? UK based anyway. It's one I'd love to get Spen on but the only one this year that I can find details of is when baby is due so even if there are still places open I don't think we can make that one somehow :lol: Heard lots of good things about all his courses but I think that one would benefit us massively.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I think he is only doing one this year....................


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ah crap. Will have to keep an eye out and hope he adds another. If not there's always next year I guess  We have reasonable recall but would be nice to improve it.


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## Riff Raff (Feb 12, 2013)

John is coming to NZ in May to speak at the APDT NZ conference. Think I will go see him.....


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Have you been to Waggawuffin's Stop Come Click? I've done both and yes I learned a lot on each but you'd probably still get what you need from that one. There is more practical on Jane's too.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Oh, and John recommends you don't take your own dog if they've got a reasonable recall, that instead you should take the worst dog you can find because you will learn more, then apply it to your own dog when you get home.

He was right.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

No, will look into the Waggawuffins one, thanks  They're only about a 30 minute drive from here if I remember right. I don't know anyone with a dog with horrendous recall to take lol, Spen will have to do.


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## Sarahliz100 (Jan 5, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> No, will look into the Waggawuffins one, thanks  They're only about a 30 minute drive from here if I remember right. I don't know anyone with a dog with horrendous recall to take lol, Spen will have to do.


I did this recently, it's very good. Mixture of theory and practical. I think she's just published some dates for August.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sarahliz100 said:


> I did this recently, it's very good. Mixture of theory and practical. I think she's just published some dates for August.


Crap, they're all coming at the wrong time for me this year  I think I'm going to be looking next year no matter which I go for. Will definitely look into this one though, no train or hotel costs for a start!


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## Sarahliz100 (Jan 5, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> Crap, they're all coming at the wrong time for me this year  I think I'm going to be looking next year no matter which I go for. Will definitely look into this one though, no train or hotel costs for a start!


Ah well. Sounds like spencer is a good boy anyway


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sarahliz100 said:


> Ah well. Sounds like spencer is a good boy anyway


Sometimes...lol. His recall's good enough that I'm happy letting him off leash so not desperate for help with it or anything  I just would like to improve it if possible.


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## Sarahliz100 (Jan 5, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> Sometimes...lol. His recall's good enough that I'm happy letting him off leash so not desperate for help with it or anything  I just would like to improve it if possible.


Yes, that's where we were too. The workshop definitely gave us some tips and he's been very good recently


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sarahliz100 said:


> Yes, that's where we were too. The workshop definitely gave us some tips and he's been very good recently


Will definitely look into it at a more appropriate time then  We've got the important things covered for the most part, not chasing cyclists or runners, coming back if he sees a horse and generally coming when called. I'd just like a bit more enthusiasm and his response to be a bit faster to that last one. Which are probably easy things to achieve really but I'm not managing it. We're starting classes for the Kennel Club awards tomorrow though, maybe they'll help some


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