# Sticky  Pancytopenia Outbreak In Cats / Food Recall



## Ceiling Kitty

I know we're all worried about the ongoing pancytopenia outbreak that has been reported in cats in the UK, and the related food recalls that have been announced.

I know there are already a few threads about it, but I thought it might be helpful to collate what we know so far in one post. I'll start by saying that I really don't know any more than you do. None of the veterinary representative bodies have issued the veterinary industry with any statement yet.

We've only heard from the RVC (Royal Veterinary College), who are leading the research. Their statement is here: https://www.rvc.ac.uk/news-and-events/rvc-news/feline-pancytopenia-update

*What's been happening?*

Since May 2021, there have been over 100 reported cases of a potentially serious condition called pancytopenia in UK cats. Sadly, more cases are being reported all the time as we reach mid-June.

It is now suspected (though not yet proven) that the mysterious outbreak is linked to diet, with three brands of dry food implicated. Earlier this week, these three brands were all subject to product recalls. Investigation into the link is still ongoing.

*Which foods are affected?*

At the moment, it's only DRY foods produced by Fold Hill Foods Ltd in Lincolnshire that are known to be affected. The affected brand names are Applaws, AVA and Sainsbury's.

NO wet foods are reported to be involved at this stage. For what it's worth, my own cat eats Sainsbury's own brand wet food frequently and I have no concerns about him.

Product recall notice from the FSA (Food Standards Agency):
https://food.gov.uk/news-alerts/ale...AGkI46XBMk3La0zpG_a8fB7C0a5QGQWEmwdnyZwF4t3JU

Statement from Fold Hill Foods Ltd:
https://www.foldhill.co.uk/recall-statement-from-fold-hill-foods-ltd/

This graphic from Which? lists the affected foods:










*What is wrong with the foods?*

At the moment, we don't know. The link with food isn't completely proven, but suspicions are great enough to have driven the recall. Some kind of contaminant toxin is suspected, but the RVC (who have been leading the research on the pancytopenia outbreak since it was first noted last month) haven't yet established the cause.

*What is pancytopenia?*

The term 'pancytopenia' refers to a decrease in cell production by the bone marrow. This includes red blood cells (essential for oxygen delivery to the body), white blood cells (a major part of the immune system) and platelets (vital for blood clotting).

Most cases of feline pancytopenia we see are due to infectious diseases - especially FIV (feline immunodeficiency virus), FeLV (feline leukaemia virus), FIP (feline infectious peritonitis), toxoplasmosis and FPV (feline panleucopenia virus). We can also see it with certain cancers, especially those affecting the bone marrow.

Rarely (very rarely?!) we can see pancytopenia resulting from toxins or drugs. There's a fair old list of them. I'm sure the companies involved will be looking into whether the food has been contaminated with such a substance.

*What are the symptoms of pancytopenia?*

Some cats will show no obvious symptoms.

In most reported cases, signs are unfortunately vague - poor appetite, lethargy, generally feeling unwell. Of course, these symptoms could be explained by a hundred other things, so blood tests will usually be necessary to confirm or rule out the presence of pancytopenia. It is unfortunately not a condition that can be diagnosed based on an examination alone.

One specific sign that the RVC has reported in the cases they've seen has been abnormal bleeding. Affected cats may bleed from the mouth, they may pass bloody urine/faeces, or they may vomit blood. Look out for fresh red blood in vomit or faeces, but also look out for digested blood. This will appear as black, tarry stools or vomit that looks like they've brought up black/brown coffee grounds.

Anaemic cats may have pale gums - though, again, there are many other causes of anaemia in cats other than pancytopenia. And some cats tend to look a 'bit pale' anyway - a peculiarity of feline medicine. You must contact your vet if you have any concerns.

*How is pancytopenia diagnosed?*

A blood test will generally confirm or rule out the presence of pancytopenia. Be prepared for further tests for FIV, FeLV etc, which will be needed to rule out infectious diseases as the cause of the pancytopenia. Ultimately, a bone marrow biopsy is needed to investigate pancytopenia cases fully - but this is more invasive.

There are currently no tests available that would prove a link to the food, as we don't know what the causative factor is.

*What treatment is available?*

Many affected cats are likely to be very poorly and will require intensive treatment in hospital.

As the precise cause of the pancytopenia is unknown, no specific antidote (if one even exists) can be offered. Therefore, affected cats must be treated supportively. This will generally involve intravenous fluids in hospital. If the white blood cell count is very low and the immune system heavily compromised, antibiotics will also be necessary. Some very anaemic cats will require one or more blood transfusions.

Unfortunately, this is a very serious condition. Despite our best efforts, severely affected cats may not survive.

Such treatment is likely to be very expensive. I haven't seen any information yet as to whether the food manufacturers will contribute towards the costs - it may be too early to say, given that a link has not been definitively proven. If anyone knows of a case where the costs of treatment have been recovered from the food companies, please update us. I am not aware of one yet, but - as I said - it's relatively early days.

*What should I do if my cat has been eating one of the affected foods?*

*1. Stop feeding the food immediately and contact the supplier. They will process your refund.*

For Applaws foods: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...2021/Customer-Notice-Applaws-dry-cat-food.pdf

For AVA foods from Pets At Home: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...A-PRIN-36-2021/Pets-at-Home-Recall-Poster.pdf

For Sainsbury's foods: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...uct-Recall-JS-Hypoallergenic-Dry-cat-food.pdf

*2. Monitor your cat carefully for any signs of ill health* as discussed above: lethargy, poor appetite, bleeding from the mouth, pale gums, breathlessness, bloody faeces/urine/vomit. If you have any concerns at all about your cat, contact your vet. Inform them that your cat has been eating one of the foods affected by the recall.

If your cat is found to be suffering with pancytopenia, ask your vet to report the case to the RVC, who are collating information about the cases for their research. Your vet may already know to do this, but it's worth telling them just in case. The case can be reported here (only vets can fill this in, not cat owners): https://rvc.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/pancytopenia

*3. If your cat has been eating one of the affected foods, you have the option to have a blood test to check their cell levels, even if they are showing no symptoms*. Speak to your vet about this.

There is still so much we don't know about this pancytopenia outbreak. Speak to your vet about it if you need to, but please be patient with us. At the moment, we haven't been told anything more than the information already generally available to the public. If that changes, I'll update here.

Stay safe, everyone.


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## oliviarussian

Thanks for the info CK, a very worrying time for owners and vets alike


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## lillytheunicorn

Thank you @Ceiling Kitty really nice to have it summarised.

Quick question, do you know if cats bloods are normal now and the food has stopped being fed whether their blood work is likely to stay normal?

Desperately trying to remember if we fed Miss May Applaws or not, when we were trying her on different dried food last month. We tried many varieties. I am hoping PAH have a record linked to our VIP card what I bought.


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## OrientalSlave

@Ceiling Kitty Thanks for that. I have a question - does anyone have any idea how long after eating the recalled biscuits might a cat be affected?


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## KCTT

I asked my vet this before and she said they just don’t know at the minute. Tipsy was 2 weeks ago as she only has it as a back up.


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## Ceiling Kitty

@OrientalSlave @lillytheunicorn I'm afraid I don't know. I was wondering that myself. I'll be looking out for any more information.


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## lymorelynn

Many thanks for your input @Ceiling Kitty 
I know there are other threads but I am making this one a sticky.


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## gskinner123

Thank you SO much for this. It is invaluable amongst the very well meaning but often confused, misleading, often anecdotal, information that is currently flooding social media.


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## Wakarundayo

Thanks for this! One of mine has been eating one of the affected Applaws batches up until yesterday. He seems fine but I will be taking him for a checkup (he was due one anyway).


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## anachronism

I've taken my 3 for blood tests just in case. They only had dry every now and again so I'm hoping I have dodged a bullet. I'm so worried about this


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## Scruti

For those who bought Applaws through Amazon. Their customer support is refunding the money without having to return the food left. Just open them a chat regarding the order and they will refund it on the spot.

My cat has been eating Applaws affected food since April (7.5 kgs bag as part of his mixed diet) and, luckily, doesn't seem to have gone sick.
I'm tossing the rest of the bag and moving to Thrive for his dry food bit.


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## OrientalSlave

Scruti said:


> For those who bought Applaws through Amazon. Their customer support is refunding the money without having to return the food left. Just open them a chat regarding the order and they will refund it on the spot.
> 
> My cat has been eating Applaws affected food since April (7.5 kgs bag as part of his mixed diet) and, luckily, doesn't seem to have gone sick.
> I'm tossing the rest of the bag and moving to Thrive for his dry food bit.


So are Zooplus


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## lillytheunicorn

Ceiling Kitty said:


> @OrientalSlave @lillytheunicorn I'm afraid I don't know. I was wondering that myself. I'll be looking out for any more information.


Thank you, I thought the answer probably wouldn't be known until they identify the toxin (virus). Just hoped you might have some insider information.


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## lillytheunicorn

Pets at home were able to check my VIP account and confirm we hadn’t bought any Applaws food when I did my supermarket sweep trying to find food Madam May eat.


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## jasmine2

Ceiling Kitty said:


> I know we're all worried about the ongoing pancytopenia outbreak that has been reported in cats in the UK, and the related food recalls that have been announced.
> 
> I know there are already a few threads about it, but I thought it might be helpful to collate what we know so far in one post. I'll start by saying that I really don't know any more than you do. None of the veterinary representative bodies have issued the veterinary industry with any statement yet.
> 
> We've only heard from the RVC (Royal Veterinary College), who are leading the research. Their statement is here: https://www.rvc.ac.uk/news-and-events/rvc-news/feline-pancytopenia-update
> 
> *What's been happening?*
> 
> Since May 2021, there have been over 100 reported cases of a potentially serious condition called pancytopenia in UK cats. Sadly, more cases are being reported all the time as we reach mid-June.
> 
> It is now suspected (though not yet proven) that the mysterious outbreak is linked to diet, with three brands of dry food implicated. Earlier this week, these three brands were all subject to product recalls. Investigation into the link is still ongoing.
> 
> *Which foods are affected?*
> 
> At the moment, it's only DRY foods produced by Fold Hill Foods Ltd in Lincolnshire that are known to be affected. The affected brand names are Applaws, AVA and Sainsbury's.
> 
> NO wet foods are reported to be involved at this stage. For what it's worth, my own cat eats Sainsbury's own brand wet food frequently and I have no concerns about him.
> 
> Product recall notice from the FSA (Food Standards Agency):
> https://food.gov.uk/news-alerts/ale...AGkI46XBMk3La0zpG_a8fB7C0a5QGQWEmwdnyZwF4t3JU
> 
> Statement from Fold Hill Foods Ltd:
> https://www.foldhill.co.uk/recall-statement-from-fold-hill-foods-ltd/
> 
> This graphic from Which? lists the affected foods:
> 
> View attachment 470671
> 
> 
> *What is wrong with the foods?*
> 
> At the moment, we don't know. The link with food isn't completely proven, but suspicions are great enough to have driven the recall. Some kind of contaminant toxin is suspected, but the RVC (who have been leading the research on the pancytopenia outbreak since it was first noted last month) haven't yet established the cause.
> 
> *What is pancytopenia?*
> 
> The term 'pancytopenia' refers to a decrease in cell production by the bone marrow. This includes red blood cells (essential for oxygen delivery to the body), white blood cells (a major part of the immune system) and platelets (vital for blood clotting).
> 
> Most cases of feline pancytopenia we see are due to infectious diseases - especially FIV (feline immunodeficiency virus), FeLV (feline leukaemia virus), FIP (feline infectious peritonitis), toxoplasmosis and FPV (feline panleucopenia virus). We can also see it with certain cancers, especially those affecting the bone marrow.
> 
> Rarely (very rarely?!) we can see pancytopenia resulting from toxins or drugs. There's a fair old list of them. I'm sure the companies involved will be looking into whether the food has been contaminated with such a substance.
> 
> *What are the symptoms of pancytopenia?*
> 
> Some cats will show no obvious symptoms.
> 
> In most reported cases, signs are unfortunately vague - poor appetite, lethargy, generally feeling unwell. Of course, these symptoms could be explained by a hundred other things, so blood tests will usually be necessary to confirm or rule out the presence of pancytopenia. It is unfortunately not a condition that can be diagnosed based on an examination alone.
> 
> One specific sign that the RVC has reported in the cases they've seen has been abnormal bleeding. Affected cats may bleed from the mouth, they may pass bloody urine/faeces, or they may vomit blood. Look out for fresh red blood in vomit or faeces, but also look out for digested blood. This will appear as black, tarry stools or vomit that looks like they've brought up black/brown coffee grounds.
> 
> Anaemic cats may have pale gums - though, again, there are many other causes of anaemia in cats other than pancytopenia. And some cats tend to look a 'bit pale' anyway - a peculiarity of feline medicine. You must contact your vet if you have any concerns.
> 
> *How is pancytopenia diagnosed?*
> 
> A blood test will generally confirm or rule out the presence of pancytopenia. Be prepared for further tests for FIV, FeLV etc, which will be needed to rule out infectious diseases as the cause of the pancytopenia. Ultimately, a bone marrow biopsy is needed to investigate pancytopenia cases fully - but this is more invasive.
> 
> There are currently no tests available that would prove a link to the food, as we don't know what the causative factor is.
> 
> *What treatment is available?*
> 
> Many affected cats are likely to be very poorly and will require intensive treatment in hospital.
> 
> As the precise cause of the pancytopenia is unknown, no specific antidote (if one even exists) can be offered. Therefore, affected cats must be treated supportively. This will generally involve intravenous fluids in hospital. If the white blood cell count is very low and the immune system heavily compromised, antibiotics will also be necessary. Some very anaemic cats will require one or more blood transfusions.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is a very serious condition. Despite our best efforts, severely affected cats may not survive.
> 
> Such treatment is likely to be very expensive. I haven't seen any information yet as to whether the food manufacturers will contribute towards the costs - it may be too early to say, given that a link has not been definitively proven. If anyone knows of a case where the costs of treatment have been recovered from the food companies, please update us. I am not aware of one yet, but - as I said - it's relatively early days.
> 
> *What should I do if my cat has been eating one of the affected foods?*
> 
> *1. Stop feeding the food immediately and contact the supplier. They will process your refund.*
> 
> For Applaws foods: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...2021/Customer-Notice-Applaws-dry-cat-food.pdf
> 
> For AVA foods from Pets At Home: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...A-PRIN-36-2021/Pets-at-Home-Recall-Poster.pdf
> 
> For Sainsbury's foods: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...uct-Recall-JS-Hypoallergenic-Dry-cat-food.pdf
> 
> *2. Monitor your cat carefully for any signs of ill health* as discussed above: lethargy, poor appetite, bleeding from the mouth, pale gums, breathlessness, bloody faeces/urine/vomit. If you have any concerns at all about your cat, contact your vet. Inform them that your cat has been eating one of the foods affected by the recall.
> 
> If your cat is found to be suffering with pancytopenia, ask your vet to report the case to the RVC, who are collating information about the cases for their research. Your vet may already know to do this, but it's worth telling them just in case. The case can be reported here (only vets can fill this in, not cat owners): https://rvc.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/pancytopenia
> 
> *3. If your cat has been eating one of the affected foods, you have the option to have a blood test to check their cell levels, even if they are showing no symptoms*. Speak to your vet about this.
> 
> There is still so much we don't know about this pancytopenia outbreak. Speak to your vet about it if you need to, but please be patient with us. At the moment, we haven't been told anything more than the information already generally available to the public. If that changes, I'll update here.
> 
> Stay safe, everyone.


Hi, thanks for this post, I've a question. I had ordered Sainsbury's hypoallergenic dry cat food in the first week of February and gave to my cats as a treat for one week. There main diet was felix wet food. I noticed they are getting upset stomach on this so throw the bag. How long it takes for the symptoms to appear? I've one cat who is sleeping a lot since we shifted to a new house two months ago and recently she has started limping and seems lethargic. Today I noticed some blood in the urine. I've other cats so I'm not sure if it's her urine or not. I took her to the vet who said that she was walking fine in front of her and she had no fever. She said to bring her back if this continues for a blood test and x ray. I'm worried and want to know if the symptoms can take longer to appear


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## Barbara Lazarus

Our beautiful healthy boys, Barney and Rubble, who would have been 5 on June 26 were cruelly taken from us on May 7. The RVC did everything they could to save them but there was nothing they could do. It's looking like the Sainsbury's Hypoallergenic Salmon Dry Food was the reason - we gave the RVC the product to test. We are devastated. This is beyond a tragedy. My heart goes out to all of you whose hearts are broken. God Bless.


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## jasmine2

KCTT said:


> I asked my vet this before and she said they just don't know at the minute. Tipsy was 2 weeks ago as she only has it as a back up.


Did you mean to say she had the food two weeks ago before the symptoms started


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## KCTT

No she last ate a small amount two weeks ago and we have had no symptoms. She has had bloods done today as a precaution, in house results have come back normal and the more detailed ones from the lab should be back tomorrow. We had an 800g bag and we still have 720g left so she has only had a small amount and none in the last two weeks. I can put dates on this as I collected her Royal Canin on the 3rd June and she has only had this since then.

@Barbara Lazarus so sorry for your loss x


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## jasmine2

KCTT said:


> No she last ate a small amount two weeks ago and we have had no symptoms. She has had bloods done today as a precaution, in house results have come back normal and the more detailed ones from the lab should be back tomorrow. We had an 800g bag and we still have 720g left so she has only had a small amount and none in the last two weeks. I can put dates on this as I collected her Royal Canin on the 3rd June and she has only had this since then.
> 
> @Barbara Lazarus so sorry for your loss x


That's good to hear, my cats also ate some amount in February and soon after we shifted. Since than one of my cat seems a bit lethargic in the mornings I thought it's maybe due to new surroundings and recently she has been limping and became more lethargic. Yesterday I took her to the vet and she said she has no fever and was walking fine in front of her. I forgot to mention that she also ate this food but I will phone them today to tell them. I don't know if it is related or not as it's been few months now. But two weeks after eating the effected food we had shifted and she seemed a bit lethargic since than. What your cat is eating now as I'm so scared to feed anything to my cats now?


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## KCTT

She is on Royal Canin, this is her main food. I have order it in and she only had the Sainsbury’s as a back up if we’re waiting for the Royal Canin.


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## Treaclesmum

jasmine2 said:


> That's good to hear, my cats also ate some amount in February and soon after we shifted. Since than one of my cat seems a bit lethargic in the mornings I thought it's maybe due to new surroundings and recently she has been limping and became more lethargic. Yesterday I took her to the vet and she said she has no fever and was walking fine in front of her. I forgot to mention that she also ate this food but I will phone them today to tell them. I don't know if it is related or not as it's been few months now. But two weeks after eating the effected food we had shifted and she seemed a bit lethargic since than. What your cat is eating now as I'm so scared to feed anything to my cats now?


I would speak to your vet if your cat still seems lethargic, they can do blood tests for any cats that have eaten the recalled products, so I would definitely ask them to do this.


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## Calvine

Barbara Lazarus said:


> taken from us on May 7.


Really sorry to hear this; what an awful thing to happen. I did not realise this started as far back as early May - it's only been publicised in recent days to the best of my knowledge, in which case many cats will have eaten copious amounts..


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## oliviarussian

Latest update


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## Wakarundayo

These numbers are extremely worrying, if they are reporting over 200 confirmed cases but those being only a small portion. 
I booked mine who had been eating one of the Applaws batches for a blood test, but earliest I could get was Wednesday, since he doesn't really have any symptoms so far.


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## lorilu

My gosh. This of course brings to mind the melamine poisoning of 2007. @Barbara Lazarus I burst into tears when I saw your post. So many of my friends lost pets 14 years ago. To see this happening again is devastating.


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## oliviarussian

Barbara Lazarus said:


> Our beautiful healthy boys, Barney and Rubble, who would have been 5 on June 26 were cruelly taken from us on May 7. The RVC did everything they could to save them but there was nothing they could do. It's looking like the Sainsbury's Hypoallergenic Salmon Dry Food was the reason - we gave the RVC the product to test. We are devastated. This is beyond a tragedy. My heart goes out to all of you whose hearts are broken. God Bless.


Absolutely devastated for you, so sorry for your losses


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## jasmine2

KCTT said:


> No she last ate a small amount two weeks ago and we have had no symptoms. She has had bloods done today as a precaution, in house results have come back normal and the more detailed ones from the lab should be back tomorrow. We had an 800g bag and we still have 720g left so she has only had a small amount and none in the last two weeks. I can put dates on this as I collected her Royal Canin on the 3rd June and she has only had this since then.
> 
> @Barbara Lazarus so sorry for your loss x


Have the results come back?


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## KCTT

Still waiting but imagine they are busier than usual.


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## Barbara Lazarus

KCTT said:


> No she last ate a small amount two weeks ago and we have had no symptoms. She has had bloods done today as a precaution, in house results have come back normal and the more detailed ones from the lab should be back tomorrow. We had an 800g bag and we still have 720g left so she has only had a small amount and none in the last two weeks. I can put dates on this as I collected her Royal Canin on the 3rd June and she has only had this since then.
> 
> @Barbara Lazarus so sorry for your loss x


Thank you.


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## Barbara Lazarus

Calvine said:


> Really sorry to hear this; what an awful thing to happen. I did not realise this started as far back as early May - it's only been publicised in recent days to the best of my knowledge, in which case many cats will have eaten copious amounts..


Thank you - it's my remaining bag of the Sainsbury's food the RVC tested. We can't believe that this has happened and if it is confirmed that it's contaminated food we will fight for justice.


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## Barbara Lazarus

oliviarussian said:


> Absolutely devastated for you, so sorry for your losses


Bless you.


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## Treaclesmum

Barbara Lazarus said:


> Bless you.
> View attachment 470747


So sad, they were so beautiful and look so happy there 

Yours must have been one of the first cases. If the RVC can confirm a poisoning has taken place, they must stop at nothing to find out where it has come from and catch the vile person who would do this.


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## KCTT

Tipsy's bloods are all in normal range vet has said we just need to be aware of symptoms and call if we are worried. Vet also said they are getting more guidance through on what they are seeing in blood results to enable them to spot this quickly.


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## Barbara Lazarus

Barbara Lazarus said:


> Thank you.





Barbara Lazarus said:


> Thank you.





Barbara Lazarus said:


> Thank you - it's my remaining bag of the Sainsbury's food the RVC tested. We can't believe that this has happened and if it is confirmed that it's contaminated food we will fight for justice.





Treaclesmum said:


> So sad, they were so beautiful and look so happy there
> 
> Yours must have been one of the first cases. If the RVC can confirm a poisoning has taken place, they must stop at nothing to find out where it has come from and catch the vile person who would do this.


Thank you, yes, i think so.They had such beautiful natures, they were brothers and totally inseparable -they entered this world together and left together. This isn't poisoning, this is probably related to the dry food recall.


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## Barbara Lazarus

Barbara Lazarus said:


> Thank you - it's my remaining bag of the Sainsbury's food the RVC tested. We can't believe that this has happened and if it is confirmed that it's contaminated food we will fight for justice.


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## Barbara Lazarus

oliviarussian said:


> Absolutely devastated for you, so sorry for your losses


My beautiful boys-Barney and Rubble.


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## Barbara Lazarus

lorilu said:


> My gosh. This of course brings to mind the melamine poisoning of 2007. @Barbara Lazarus I burst into tears when I saw your post. So many of my friends lost pets 14 years ago. To see this happening again is devastating.


Bless you- Lorilu. Barney and Rubble were our rescue brothers who had the most beautiful natures and were inseparable -they entered this world together and left together; all too soon -they would have been 5 on June 26,so cruelly taken.


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## Treaclesmum

It's awful to lose them so young 

I was wondering what has caused the recall in the first place, surely it must mean that someone close to the Fold hill site has gone and contaminated the food with something? 

I hope the RVC will determine the exact cause.


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## Barbara Lazarus

Treaclesmum said:


> It's awful to lose them so young
> 
> I was wondering what has caused the recall in the first place, surely it must mean that someone close to the Fold hill site has gone and contaminated the food with something?.
> 
> I hope the RVC will determine the exact cause.


The boys were in ICU @RVC and we gave the vets there the Sainsbury's Hypoallergenic Salmon Dry Food to test - I think it went from that. My heart goes out to everyone who has suffered like this. I believe there were problems at Fold Hill before. I feel sick that my faith in that product might have been the cause of this...


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## Mrs Funkin

Oh @Barbara Lazarus what a little pair of beauties your boys were. I'm so very sad for you. I hope that their deaths are not in vain and something is found on the testing of the food. Run free, Barney & Rubble.


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## KCTT

Not necessarily it could be something that has been contaminated before reaching the factory. It’s doesn’t have to be an intentional act there could be a long supply chain and something may have have slipped through a QA safety net. It’s shocking however it has happened and somebody should be held accountable if the source is confirmed as the food.

As was the case with the Venison incident a few years back.


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## Barbara Lazarus

Calvine said:


> Really sorry to hear this; what an awful thing to happen. I did not realise this started as far back as early May - it's only been publicised in recent days to the best of my knowledge, in which case many cats will have eaten copious amounts..


Thanks so much Calvine.


Calvine said:


> Really sorry to hear this; what an awful thing to happen. I did not realise this started as far back as early May - it's only been publicised in recent days to the best of my knowledge, in which case many cats will have eaten copious amounts..


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## Barbara Lazarus

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh @Barbara Lazarus what a little pair of beauties your boys were. I'm so very sad for you. I hope that their deaths are not in vain and something is found on the testing of the food. Run free, Barney & Rubble.


Bless you- they had the best life but we never imagined it would be cut short like this -everyone who ever met them fell in love with them.


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## Barbara Lazarus

KCTT said:


> Not necessarily it could be something that has been contaminated before reaching the factory. It's doesn't have to be an intentional act there could be a long supply chain and something may have have slipped through a QA safety net. It's shocking however it has happened and somebody should be held accountable if the source is confirmed as the food.
> 
> As was the case with the Venison incident a few years back.


Whatever the cause, I'm praying they 


KCTT said:


> Not necessarily it could be something that has been contaminated before reaching the factory. It's doesn't have to be an intentional act there could be a long supply chain and something may have have slipped through a QA safety net. It's shocking however it has happened and somebody should be held accountable if the source is confirmed as the food.
> 
> As was the case with the Venison incident a few years back.


I'm praying they find the cause - my understanding is this wasn't the first time this has happened at that factory.


----------



## KCTT

I’m going to try not to speculate until the cause is known. It’s more important we share what has happened and make people aware of the symptoms to allow for early diagnosis.

I am sorry for your loss, the FB group have created a group of owners who have lost loved cats so they can share information and gave strength in numbers in fighting for justice.


----------



## OrientalSlave

KCTT said:


> Not necessarily it could be something that has been contaminated before reaching the factory. It's doesn't have to be an intentional act there could be a long supply chain and something may have have slipped through a QA safety net. It's shocking however it has happened and somebody should be held accountable if the source is confirmed as the food.
> 
> As was the case with the Venison incident a few years back.


Or it could be something new that the QA doesn't currently look for


----------



## KCTT

OrientalSlave said:


> Or it could be something new that the QA doesn't currently look for


Thats true as that is I believe how the venison issue came about, no need to test for what it was infected with as it was thought it would never be there.


----------



## Barbara Lazarus

KCTT said:


> I'm going to try not to speculate until the cause is known. It's more important we share what has happened and make people aware of the symptoms to allow for early diagnosis.
> 
> I am sorry for your loss, the FB group have created a group of owners who have lost loved cats so they can share information and gave strength in numbers in fighting for justice.


Thank you- I just pray that no more beautiful kittens/cats suffer. I don't have FB.


----------



## ZoeM

Not sure if this has been added, but Wilko cat food has also been recalled as is also made in the suspected factory.


----------



## KCTT

People flagged that had the same factory code a few days ago and were told it wasn’t affected.


----------



## ZoeM

KCTT said:


> People flagged that had the same factory code a few days ago and were told it wasn't affected.


Yes! I posted about this on facebook a few days ago and was told I was spreading fear.....


----------



## KCTT

Hopefully people made their own decision to be cautious. I would have been wary if it was in the cupboard. I checked the dog food at my parents before.


----------



## break_away_from_me

My 4 were on a mix of ava and royal canin urinary 
Everything I've read is saying April is the earliest record and my cats have been fine since that time and now but having read more today i'm wondering if I should get one of them tested anyway, just in case? 
The only reason I'm reluctant is to be honest ive been at the vets to many times than I would like this year already (not with the cats ill add) so its kind of the last place I want to be but its in there best interest I will of course do it.


----------



## BenZina

Barbara Lazarus said:


> Our beautiful healthy boys, Barney and Rubble, who would have been 5 on June 26 were cruelly taken from us on May 7. The RVC did everything they could to save them but there was nothing they could do. It's looking like the Sainsbury's Hypoallergenic Salmon Dry Food was the reason - we gave the RVC the product to test. We are devastated. This is beyond a tragedy. My heart goes out to all of you whose hearts are broken. God Bless.


Dear Barbara - I offer my deepest condolences - so awful x


----------



## BenZina

My two 1yo angels have been eating AVA for months now!!! They eat about 30% wet food as well and while they seem alright atm, I'm terrified though. Especially as I had a nightmare two nights before - in the dream I thought one of them had claws stuck in a curtain but when I went to see, it was a 'symbolic' cat with a bloody mouth having a fit...then getting the recall email freaked me out tbh. Trying to stay calm but...
So,so sorry for for everyone and the beautiful little beings...


----------



## jasmine2

anachronism said:


> I've taken my 3 for blood tests just in case. They only had dry every now and again so I'm hoping I have dodged a bullet. I'm so worried


----------



## jasmine2

anachronism said:


> I've taken my 3 for blood tests just in case. They only had dry every now and again so I'm hoping I have dodged a bullet. I'm so worried about this


What were the results?


----------



## anachronism

jasmine2 said:


> What were the results?


I haven't had them back yet. Monday or Tuesday they said


----------



## Cookie crumble

Hi sorry if this has already been mentioned. My kitten was on AVA and the vet suggested blood tests and that if I had proof of purchase (receipt of using pets at home vip card) that pets at home would reimburse the costs. I rang pets at home customer service to confirm this. Luckily my vets then decided to cover the costs (it's a vets for pets inside a pets at home) as I bought the food from that store so I didn't have to reclaim. Thought it might help someone. P.s bloods were done yesterday evening and were back today and all were fine.


----------



## Cookie crumble

Sorry that should of said "recipt or if I'd used my pets at home vip card when purchasing the Ava food ".


----------



## jasmine2

Barbara Lazarus said:


> Our beautiful healthy boys, Barney and Rubble, who would have been 5 on June 26 were cruelly taken from us on May 7. The RVC did everything they could to save them but there was nothing they could do. It's looking like the Sainsbury's Hypoallergenic Salmon Dry Food was the reason - we gave the RVC the product to test. We are devastated. This is beyond a tragedy. My heart goes out to all of you whose hearts are broken. God Bless.


So sorry for your loss how long did they ate this food?


----------



## jasmine2

Ive just read on Facebook people posting about their cats eating wet Applaws food and their cats getting Poncytopenia. I fed my cats this two weeks ago. Two people were saying that their cats ate pruina and their cats died suddenly. I’m so scared now


----------



## OrientalSlave

jasmine2 said:


> Ive just read on Facebook people posting about their cats eating wet Applaws food and their cats getting Poncytopenia. I fed my cats this two weeks ago. Two people were saying that their cats ate pruina and their cats died suddenly. I'm so scared now


We don't know how long after eating the suspect food a cat can be considered safe, but by no means all that eat the food are affected. Maybe not all the suspect food is affected. But ring your vets tomorrow.


----------



## Coojee

I tried to post a link from the RVC of symptoms, but got blocked as a spammer.


----------



## lorilu

Coojee said:


> I tried to post a link from the RVC of symptoms, but got blocked as a spammer.


This is posted in the first post of this thread, on page 1. The forum does sometimes block new joiners if they try to post links. We have a lot of trouble with spammers in this forum.


----------



## lorilu

Wilko as well in case it's been missed since it was posted elsewhere. The products recalled are shown in the story.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/wilko-issues-urgent-safety-warning-20856894


----------



## SusieRainbow

THere are now 2 sticky threads on this topic. If you know of any more threads please report them and in the meantime use this sticky please.


----------



## simplysardonic

SusieRainbow said:


> THere are now 2 sticky threads on this topic. If you know of any more threads please report them and in the meantime use this sticky please.


Thankyou, I did post in the mod forum about maybe moving some of the pertinent posts but making this a sticky is probably a better idea!

A worrying time for cat slaves who feed dry, I've fed my ladies Applaws in the past


----------



## SusieRainbow

I've closed this threads to comments, please use the other one.


----------



## SusieRainbow

SusieRainbow said:


> I've closed this threads to comments, please use the other one.


Re-opened following advice.


----------



## Barbara Lazarus

jasmine2 said:


> So sorry for your loss how long did they ate this food?


About 3 years - the Waitrose brand we used originally was discontinued. We gave it to them as a treat every night and because we felt it was good for their teeth, they ate Applaws wet food in the morning and early evening. I'm not sure we'll ever get over this. We put our trust in these products...


----------



## Barbara Lazarus

BenZina said:


> Dear Barbara - I offer my deepest condolences - so awful x


Bless you Ben.


----------



## Annealise

@Barbara Lazarus

So very sorry about the tragic loss of Barney and Rubble. My heart goes out to you, it's just so awful.


----------



## lymorelynn

The issue is being discussed on This Morning, ITV 10am
Awareness is getting out at last


----------



## KCTT

Very good coverage by This Morning, good information given and seriousness of it emphasised.


----------



## Barbara Lazarus

lymorelynn said:


> The issue is being discussed on This Morning, ITV 10am
> Awareness is getting out at last


Yes, I just saw it - the RVC had my Sainsbury's food to test in early May so I'm not sure why it's taken so long -they told me then that was the only common determiner then.


----------



## Barbara Lazarus

Annealise said:


> @Barbara Lazarus
> 
> So very sorry about the tragic loss of Barney and Rubble. My heart goes out to you, it's just so awful.


Bless you -we are devastated- not sure we'll ever get over their loss.


----------



## Cully

Still no mention of cat treats so presume they're safe. Very good info though on the program.


----------



## KCTT

Anyone who wants to see the this morning segment it is here


----------



## SbanR

KCTT said:


> Anyone who wants to see the this morning segment it is here


Thank you.


----------



## gskinner123

It's probably understandable but extremely frustrating that it's taking so long to identify a cause. 

The longer it goes on the more concerned I become that they aren't finding a problem with all the food samples they're testing.


----------



## MilleD

KCTT said:


> People flagged that had the same factory code a few days ago and were told it wasn't affected.


Interested in how they would know when they don't know what the source is though I guess.


----------



## KCTT

@MilleD I agree that can't identify or narrow down the batch code or date codes I find worrying.

Of course no confirmed link to the food yet that is still to be confirmed.


----------



## gskinner123

It couldn't possibly be a complete fluke could it, the food connection?

There have been a number of people (not large amounts but sufficient that it was noticeable) of owners who have reported a confirmed diagnosis of pancytopenia but have (indoor) cats who have never eaten those brands or anything manufactured at Fold Hill. And a larger number whose cats have consistently eaten one of the brands/batch numbers that are unaffected; many tested, some not.


----------



## KCTT

I just hope they confirm it ASAP, hey said it could take a couple of weeks and we’re into week 2 from tomorrow.


----------



## MilleD

gskinner123 said:


> It couldn't possibly be a complete fluke could it, the food connection?
> 
> There have been a number of people (not large amounts but sufficient that it was noticeable) of owners who have reported a confirmed diagnosis of pancytopenia but have (indoor) cats who have never eaten those brands or anything manufactured at Fold Hill. And a larger number whose cats have consistently eaten one of the brands/batch numbers that are unaffected; many tested, some not.


Nothing is confirmed yet so yes, the did link might just be coincidental.


----------



## MilleD

I've been into Sainsbury's this evening.

Not a mention of the recall either in the entrance to the shop, or where the the food would have been.

Is that normal?


----------



## Arny

MilleD said:


> I've been into Sainsbury's this evening.
> 
> Not a mention of the recall either in the entrance to the shop, or where the the food would have been.
> 
> Is that normal?


When I've needed customer service in Sainsbury's there's always been a notice there about current recalls.
Not very visible I know!


----------



## KCTT

My Sainsbury’s has recall notices at customer services and notices where the food should be. Although when I returned mine the lady did ask why I was returning it whilst stood next to the recall notice.

I was in Pets at Home today and they had notices everywhere.


----------



## MilleD

I will check out the customer service point tomorrow. There was definitely nothing in the pet food aisle.


----------



## Liv Shaw

Hi everyone, I feed my pets the Pets at Home bistro dry food and I’ve seen on Facebook that barcode from the affected foods is GB218E5009 - this barcode is on our food. It’s not one of the listed affected foods though, any advice?


----------



## OrientalSlave

gskinner123 said:


> It couldn't possibly be a complete fluke could it, the food connection?
> 
> There have been a number of people (not large amounts but sufficient that it was noticeable) of owners who have reported a confirmed diagnosis of pancytopenia but have (indoor) cats who have never eaten those brands or anything manufactured at Fold Hill. And a larger number whose cats have consistently eaten one of the brands/batch numbers that are unaffected; many tested, some not.


It could. Mine were eating Applaws in fair quantities until I decided to try wet only a few weeks back. All are hale & hearty, the only one a bit down has had two dentals & two blood tests in that time, and his bloods are good.


----------



## KCTT

Liv Shaw said:


> Hi everyone, I feed my pets the Pets at Home bistro dry food and I've seen on Facebook that barcode from the affected foods is GB218E5009 - this barcode is on our food. It's not one of the listed affected foods though, any advice?


There is a FAQ on Fold Hills website that addresses this question in an official capacity. They are saying no other brands affected and need to be recalled.

https://www.foldhill.co.uk/recall/


----------



## Siobhan O'Reilly

I just got back from the vet with my two boys. They ate a 2kg bag of Applaws finishing 5 weeks ago. 
The vet said that they believed if something was going to happen it would already and they can't confirm but believe it to be an accumulative affect, so if they were eating it everyday regularly then that would be more cause for concern.

They said the very first indicator they are looking at is pale noses and gums and being lethargic.
I am reassured but still worried. I imagine I will be for a long time.
The vet also mentioned that they don't recommend dry food for boys. This is something I knew, but has finally given me the kick I needed to move to 100% wet.


----------



## Tigermoon

The RVC haven't updated their page in 48 hours now and it was a several times a day before, so I wonder if there will soon be some further news.


gskinner123 said:


> It couldn't possibly be a complete fluke could it, the food connection?
> 
> There have been a number of people (not large amounts but sufficient that it was noticeable) of owners who have reported a confirmed diagnosis of pancytopenia but have (indoor) cats who have never eaten those brands or anything manufactured at Fold Hill. And a larger number whose cats have consistently eaten one of the brands/batch numbers that are unaffected; many tested, some not.


It could be a fluke but I'd say that is becoming unlikely now the numbers are heading towards 400 cats. Pancytopenia is caused by many things, so some of the affected cats who never ate the foods would perhaps have become ill anyway and we are only hearing of it because there is a Pancytopenia crisis at present.
As it isn't yet known what the issue is, it's hard to say why some cats are ill and others are not. A lot of the affected cats seem to be quite young, maybe they need less of whatever it is to become unwell?
Dry cat food is made in vast vats, if say there was a leak of something it would sit at the bottom of that vat and only the dough/kibbles that were on or very near the bottom would be affected whereas the rest would perhaps remain clear of the contaminant, meaning that a number of bags of the food would never cause and issue and others would. But this is all conjecture of course.
In a way I hope something is found, because if it's not the food, what the heck is going on!


----------



## QOTN

I don't know if the numbers have changed but this is dated today.


----------



## MilleD

QOTN said:


> I don't know if the numbers have changed but this is dated today.
> View attachment 471079


They have, I'm sure it was 278 last time I looked.


----------



## ZoeM

On the Pancytopenia facebook page a vet has been involved and he did a great zoom talk for people last night. He did say, that while the idea of a toxin is being considered, it could be that it's not a toxin but a deficiency. That would explain why some cats in the same household don't have symptoms. They may be hunting or eating a lot of treats, human food etc. I thought it was an interesting point. He did also suggest that it might be worthwhile to swap to a white or pale cat litter in order to pick up on blood in urine/poo more quickly as it would show up easier. The low platelet count is evidenced first in bone marrow issues as these cells are regenerated every 10 days, so unusual bleeding may be seen first or splotches of bruises (check inside of ears for this and hairless areas). He then suggested white blood cells would be next to drop, as these regenerate every month so cats may be getting bugs and illnesses usually only seen in small kittens or immuno-compromised cats. Finally would come the severe anaemia/shortness of breath/respiratory collapse from the lack of red blood cells. It was an excellent Q&A from the lovely vet as well. If I can get hold of the recording I will post a link to it here.

x


----------



## MilleD

ZoeM said:


> On the Pancytopenia facebook page a vet has been involved and he did a great zoom talk for people last night. He did say, that while the idea of a toxin is being considered, it could be that it's not a toxin but a deficiency. That would explain why some cats in the same household don't have symptoms. They may be hunting or eating a lot of treats, human food etc. I thought it was an interesting point. He did also suggest that it might be worthwhile to swap to a white or pale cat litter in order to pick up on blood in urine/poo more quickly as it would show up easier. The low platelet count is evidenced first in bone marrow issues as these cells are regenerated every 10 days, so unusual bleeding may be seen first or splotches of bruises (check inside of ears for this and hairless areas). He then suggested white blood cells would be next to drop, as these regenerate every month so cats may be getting bugs and illnesses usually only seen in small kittens or immuno-compromised cats. Finally would come the severe anaemia/shortness of breath/respiratory collapse from the lack of red blood cells. It was an excellent Q&A from the lovely vet as well. If I can get hold of the recording I will post a link to it here.
> 
> x


Did he explain how a deficiency could present so quickly as a full blown issue?


----------



## MilleD

Siobhan O'Reilly said:


> The vet said that they believed if something was going to happen it would already and they can't confirm but believe it to be an accumulative affect,


Is this just his opinion?

From @Ceiling Kitty 's posts, I got the impression that the answers to questions about how long it being from eating the food to "knowing they are ok" weren't known yet?


----------



## KCTT

I don’t think they do know but I did wonder whether it is a cumulative effect of eating something and it building up. A lot of cases now being reported are ones that happened a few weeks or months ago and people are only just linking everything in.

Tipsy are very little she actually refused to eat it after I put it down a few times who knows whether she could sense something. 

I saw on a FB post they are expecting an update tomorrow so hopefully that will give answers. I hope it does anyway as the situation is so worrying.


----------



## Arny

If it were as simple as a deficiency wouldn't it show on a routine blood test?
The vet on 'this morning' suggested they usually see the condition with heavy metal toxicity. 
I assume they're doing post mortems so maybe that will bring more answers although they're not always conclusive.


----------



## Siobhan O'Reilly

MilleD said:


> Is this just his opinion?
> 
> From @Ceiling Kitty 's posts, I got the impression that the answers to questions about how long it being from eating the food to "knowing they are ok" weren't known yet?


Yes absolutely, just their opinion. Although I am choosing to accept it as I really respect them and I see absolutely no evidence of sickness in my boys.
They did say that I could come at a moments notice to get blood tests if I would like as they are taking it incredibly seriously. If I notice any paling of gums or going off food etc I will be straight back there.
I think at this stage they are gathering information, talking to their colleagues and going off the cases that present themselves.
I feel lucky that so far my boys are okay, but this could change at any moment.


----------



## lorilu

Arny said:


> If it were as simple as a deficiency wouldn't it show on a routine blood test?
> The vet on 'this morning' suggested they usually see the condition with heavy metal toxicity.
> I assume they're doing post mortems so maybe that will bring more answers although they're not always conclusive.


Deficiencies are looked for in specific, special blood tests, not routine tests like CBC or superchem You have to know what deficiency you are testing for. Usually very expensive and can take a few weeks.


----------



## gskinner123

I'm no kind of expert whatsoever, just someone who reads and researches tons as I know many other owners here do.

It is hard to imagine that it's a deficiency unless some owners' reports of the appearance and progress of symptoms are skewed somehow.

Reading about some of the grain etc borne toxins it is shocking at how devastating to health they can be. But I believe all of the foods recalled were grain free?


----------



## Arny

lorilu said:


> Deficiencies are looked for in specific, special blood tests, not routine tests like CBC or superchem You have to know what deficiency you are testing for. Usually very expensive and can take a few weeks.


Even a vitamin/mineral deficiency? Sorry should have been more specific, my question was in relation to one company suggesting it were as simple as that.


----------



## ZoeM

Arny said:


> If it were as simple as a deficiency wouldn't it show on a routine blood test?
> The vet on 'this morning' suggested they usually see the condition with heavy metal toxicity.
> I assume they're doing post mortems so maybe that will bring more answers although they're not always conclusive.


That is a good question, but I don't think there is anything simple about a deficiency. Diets are complex things and if we rely 100% on one food source to be complete then obviously if that diet is lacking in a specific vitamin for example, then it would take time for the levels of that vitamin and what it is processed in the body to become, to drop. Also some vitamins`are neèded in such tiny amounts, I guess if the food isn't stirred correctly in the vat, some cats might not get enough. This may take months or weeks to show. The last major food recall that Ava did, was due to a thiamine deficiency in 2017.

I understand that the condition is so rare that to say a vet 'usually' sees the condition with heavy metal toxicity, is simplistic. Seeing a very sick cat with heavy metal toxicity may happen, but running all the tests to prove thats what it definitively was is very unlikely to happen. I dont know any cat owners who could afford to pay thousands for tests for why their cat died, they would accept accidental poisoning as an answer. The vet who chatted with us, said the only case he has heard of was associated with a rare bone marrow cancer.


----------



## Arny

ZoeM said:


> That is a good question, but I don't think there is anything simple about a deficiency. Diets are complex things and if we rely 100% on one food source to be complete then obviously if that diet is lacking in a specific vitamin for example, then it would take time for the levels of that vitamin and what it is processed in the body to become, to drop. Also some vitamins`are neèded in such tiny amounts, I guess if the food isn't stirred correctly in the vat, some cats might not get enough. This may take months or weeks to show. The last major food recall that Ava did, was due to a thiamine deficiency in 2017.
> 
> I understand that the condition is so rare that to say a vet 'usually' sees the condition with heavy metal toxicity, is simplistic. Seeing a very sick cat with heavy metal toxicity may happen, but running all the tests to prove thats what it definitively was is very unlikely to happen. I dont know any cat owners who could afford to pay thousands for tests for why their cat died, they would accept accidental poisoning as an answer. The vet who chatted with us, said the only case he has heard of was associated with a rare bone marrow cancer.


I had thought/hoped at this point that someone might be investigating and paying for those investigations but honestly I've read nothing round the subject so I wasn't clear whether cats are still falling ill post recall or whether the new cases being added are historical now there's a wider reach.


----------



## ZoeM

Sadly this has been going on since April/May, which is why they have recalled food going back to Christmas. I dont know if you are on facebook, but you can see the extent of it in a group on there that a few affected owners made. Every couple of hours someone new comes on saying how their cat passed away, or how they are fighting for their life in a vet hospital. It is very upsetting. It is a public group so you might not need to be a member to look at the posts and see what information is being shared freely by pet owners and helpful vets. https://www.facebook.com/groups/806871953557080/


----------



## ZoeM

Incidentally if anyone wants to help and possibly can help, there is a charity newly set up that will test your cat for FIV/FLV and blood type your cat to see if they can be suitable blood donors. They are then seeking to match donor cats with those local that are sick. It's an incredible initiative again set up by owners who lost their cats to this and couldn't get a blood transfusion quickly enough. felineregistry.co.uk


----------



## lorilu

Arny said:


> Even a vitamin/mineral deficiency? Sorry should have been more specific, my question was in relation to one company suggesting it were as simple as that.


Yes a standard blood test will not show deficiencies of this sort. It will show if there is organ damage, or an abnormal white blood cell count and like that, but if you want to know if a cat is suffering from a deficiency (or excess) of vitmain D or B or whatever, it is a special test. They are expensive and have to be sent out to a lab who does those kinds of tests.


----------



## QOTN

A Vitamin B12 blood test is standard for cats diagnosed with pancreatitis because a deficiency is so common and today I have read it is associated with other gastrointestinal disease.

This is interesting but I have not accessed the whole paper so I don't know if it suggests a cause.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28444757/


----------



## lorilu

QOTN said:


> A Vitamin B12 blood test is standard for cats diagnosed with pancreatitis because a deficiency is so common and today I have read it is associated with other gastrointestinal disease.
> 
> This is interesting but I have not accessed the whole paper so I don't know if it suggests a cause.
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28444757/


It is "standard" in that it is a test for pancreatitis. It is not part of regular blood work and it costs $250 (USD) for only that one single test in my neck of the woods and results take several weeks. It still is not part of routine blood work.

Actually probably cost more now. I had it done a few years ago on Mazy cat.


----------



## QOTN

I do not remember the B12 tests I had done on my boy costing very much or taking a long time for a result but having read about it today, there seem to be different tests according to the type of B12 deficiency. (I am sure the fpl was much more expensive and so was the initial TLI but that is not relevant here.)


----------



## Arny

lorilu said:


> Yes a standard blood test will not show deficiencies of this sort. It will show if there is organ damage, or an abnormal white blood cell count and like that, but if you want to know if a cat is suffering from a deficiency (or excess) of vitmain D or B or whatever, it is a special test. They are expensive and have to be sent out to a lab who does those kinds of tests.


Ah ok, thank you.
Perhaps I should educate myself more about what they're actually testing for in general blood test.
Honestly the vet brings a whole list up on the computer and is usually telling me everything's within normal range so I haven't paid too much attention.


----------



## lorilu

Arny said:


> Ah ok, thank you.
> Perhaps I should educate myself more about what they're actually testing for in general blood test.
> Honestly the vet brings a whole list up on the computer and is usually telling me everything's within normal range so I haven't paid too much attention.


I recommend you keep copies for yourself. The vet e mails me the report then we go over it together, line by line.



QOTN said:


> I do not remember the B12 tests I had done on my boy costing very much or taking a long time for a result but having read about it today, there seem to be different tests according to the type of B12 deficiency. (I am sure the fpl was much more expensive and so was the initial TLI but that is not relevant here.)


I expect it is fPL I am thinking of. Yes, I too will desist with this line of discussion in this thread now.


----------



## ZoeM

Arny said:


> I had thought/hoped at this point that someone might be investigating and paying for those investigations but honestly I've read nothing round the subject so I wasn't clear whether cats are still falling ill post recall or whether the new cases being added are historical now there's a wider reach.





QOTN said:


> A Vitamin B12 blood test is standard for cats diagnosed with pancreatitis because a deficiency is so common and today I have read it is associated with other gastrointestinal disease.
> 
> This is interesting but I have not accessed the whole paper so I don't know if it suggests a cause.
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28444757/


Thanks for posting, QOTN. From what it says it causes a whole range of issues, I know from reading the Pancytopenia group on facebook though, hat a number of cats have been treated with vitamin B12 injections, as well as the drugs to help with clotting, and blood transfusions to help with the devastating lack of blood cells. On the RVC website, it states, "We suspect a toxic basis for the disease (though this has not been confirmed)." To get such low B12 in an apparently higher quality diet, which is what Applaws and others suggest they are, would make me wonder if some part of the processing of the food has been destroying it.


----------



## Siobhan O'Reilly

Does anyone have any updates? The information seems to have dried up a bit. I do hope the companies aren't burying this situation. I'm going to go have a look at the Facebook group also.


----------



## KCTT

Last I heard they were expecting some results from the initial tests over the weekend but not seen anything.


----------



## Calvine

Arny said:


> Ah ok, thank you.
> Perhaps I should educate myself more about what they're actually testing for in general blood test.
> Honestly the vet brings a whole list up on the computer and is usually telling me everything's within normal range so I haven't paid too much attention.


What you should do, and what I have started doing, is ask for a copy of any bloodwork done (you're entitled to it) so you can look things up yourself. Right now, when you're not allowed into the consulting room, you hardly get a chance to speak to the vet or ask them anything. Also, you keep a copy yourself (I keep all the bills and blood tests in a file) and you have the results so you can compare for yourself how much a condition might have changed since the last visit.
I wonder if it is more prevalent in cats which are fed _exclusively_ on the named dry brands? I give mine a handful as a treat a couple of times a week . . . who knows.


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## Charity

There's a GoFundMe page been set up to help owners with vets fees, which will be very expensive with multiple cats, if anyone is interested.

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfun...urce=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=20210627_127897


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## Arny

Calvine said:


> What you should do, and what I have started doing, is ask for a copy of any bloodwork done (you're entitled to it) so you can look things up yourself. Right now, when you're not allowed into the consulting room, you hardly get a chance to speak to the vet or ask them anything. Also, you keep a copy yourself (I keep all the bills and blood tests in a file) and you have the results so you can compare for yourself how much a condition might have changed since the last visit.
> I wonder if it is more prevalent in cats which are fed _exclusively_ on the named dry brands? I give mine a handful as a treat a couple of times a week . . . who knows.


I think I will start doing that.
I've always asked for printed invoice and keep those on file but never thought about the blood tests.
Luckily my cat and dog vet have been letting you into the waiting room since after the first lockdown and then at some point last year some individuals let you into the consultation room. 
It does help purely because you don't feel as rushed if they're able to examine the animal and talk to you.


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## MilleD

Charity said:


> There's a GoFundMe page been set up to help owners with vets fees, which will be very expensive with multiple cats, if anyone is interested.
> 
> https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfun...urce=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=20210627_127897


This could get awfully messy. If a blame is apportioned, and the company coughs up for the costs, do the people who have donated get a refund?


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## pipski

Update: 26 August 2021

*Production allowed to resume of cat food at centre of pet deaths inquiry*

No 'causative link' found between products of Sainsbury's supplier Fold Hill Foods and blood condition
Thu 26 Aug 2021 https://www.theguardian.com/busines...nOzi7orPJcrKF4Vh1YKqdmJWO5XmyWVuRvDfpqfTRf9yY

and

*Mystery of killer cat disease deepens *

An investigation into the spread of pancytopenia started in June but has now found pet food from several major retailers was not responsible
26 August 2021 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/26/mystery-killer-cat-disease-deepens/

The Food Standards Agency said a multi-agency approach would continue to try and identify the definitive cause of the outbreak
A potentially deadly cat disease outbreak remains a mystery after a recent probe found pet food recalled from a series of major retailers was *not responsible*. 
The Food Standards Agency (FSA) has been investigating the spread of feline pancytopenia since June after 130 infections were reported in two months. 
Typically, just one case of the disease, which rapidly decreases the number of white and red blood cells and platelets, is recorded a year. 
Investigations led to the recall of three brands of hypoallergenic dry cat food produced by Fold Hill Foods, sold under the Sainsbury's Hypoallergenic Recipe range. Also affected were the Pets at Home Ava range and Applaws products sold by Amazon and other pet food shops.
*But in a statement on Thursday, the FSA *said: "No causative link between pancytopenia and the recalled cat food products has been established." 
… Pets at Home said it was "deeply disappointed" that the FSA had been unable to find a definitive cause for the outbreak…


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