# Dog runs off to play with other dogs HELP



## Megpoochy (Jul 24, 2016)

Hi everyone,

I have a 9 month old cockapoo called Meg. She is generally obedient, and out walking her recall is reliable. Even running at full speed, if we call her she will come back...that is until there is another dog in the distance. Suddenly she goes completely deaf, runs and doesn't look back. Recall fails and the only way to get her back is to follow after her and drag her away. Toys, food or any other incentives have no effect. Has anyone got any tips? Meg is friendly and just wants to play, but the same can't be said for all dogs and obviously some owners, quite rightly, don't appreciate it. Anyone got any tips?


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

There is no easy way around it really other than to keep plugging that recall, which until this point clearly isn't working for you. Most dogs will recall with no distractions, it's recall with distractions that is the tough bit  

Food and toys have no effect because she's been conditioned to the fact that other dogs are far more rewarding than those things. That is not abnormal as so many dogs are conditioned inadvertently to gravitate towards other dogs as their primary source of entertainment. It's your job to reverse that! I presume she DOES like both toys and food, correct? what are her favourites?

Do you have a long line? if not, purchase one.....

What do you typically do with her on walks? and have you done any training classes?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

At this age you need to work doubly hard at recall. Your pup has reached her teenage years and has become more confident. Playing with other dogs is much more fun then coming back to you so you need to prevent her from going over in the first place. Invest in a long line and a harness which will allow her to run about, but you have the ultimate control and can reel her back in if she ignores your recall. If you really work hard now with the long line and making her come back to you, then when this phase passes then you will have a well behaved dog. 
When recalling make yourself the fun person to be with and have a game with her when she gets there. Gradually she will begin to appreciate you more then another dog, but this is largely due to maturity when she will prefer to be with you rather then another dog.
Make sure you use the long line with a harness and not the dogs collar


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## Megpoochy (Jul 24, 2016)

labradrk said:


> There is no easy way around it really other than to keep plugging that recall, which until this point clearly isn't working for you. Most dogs will recall with no distractions, it's recall with distractions that is the tough bit
> 
> Food and toys have no effect because she's been conditioned to the fact that other dogs are far more rewarding than those things. That is not abnormal as so many dogs are conditioned inadvertently to gravitate towards other dogs as their primary source of entertainment. It's your job to reverse that! I presume she DOES like both toys and food, correct? what are her favourites?
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply 

She certainly loves food and toys, she loves everything. Dogs being number 1. Cheese is her favourite but I'm reluctant to give her too much!

We have just bought a long line this weekend, a few tangling issues at present!

we live in the city so usually Meg gets a short leash city walk in the morning and then in the evenings we go down to nature reserves/dog parks/coast walks where she gets her off lead training. Usually bumping into fellow dog walkers is unavoidable.

When it comes to training classes, every class within a 50 mile radius was booked when she was a pup, we are looking into post 6 month classes currently.


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## Megpoochy (Jul 24, 2016)

Siskin said:


> At this age you need to work doubly hard at recall. Your pup has reached her teenage years and has become more confident. Playing with other dogs is much more fun then coming back to you so you need to prevent her from going over in the first place. Invest in a long line and a harness which will allow her to run about, but you have the ultimate control and can reel her back in if she ignores your recall. If you really work hard now with the long line and making her come back to you, then when this phase passes then you will have a well behaved dog.
> When recalling make yourself the fun person to be with and have a game with her when she gets there. Gradually she will begin to appreciate you more then another dog, but this is largely due to maturity when she will prefer to be with you rather then another dog.
> Make sure you use the long line with a harness and not the dogs collar


Thanks for your reply 

We did get a longline this weekend, having a few tangling issues but we will perservere. When we try and reel her back she tends to hunker down hard to the floor, continues staring at the dog in the distance and starts to whine, loudly too!


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Do you have any open areas like parks where you can put a decent distance between you and other dogs while you work with her? obviously dog parks aren't particularly conductive for recall training (I'm guessing by the terminology you use you are in the USA rather than the UK?) and nor are beaches for similar reasons.....too many people/off lead dogs and not enough space.


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## BrackenFlight (Mar 9, 2015)

A long line is a good idea as she can run and play. but you still have a grip so if the recall isnt working at least she is still attached to you.
We trained swee to come back to a shepards whistle as well as his name - so when he wondered off and couldnt hear us as well he would hear that. Also the sharper blast of a whistle will often stop them from what they are doing and make them turn and look at you.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

That's a good point about the whistle, forgotten about that one.

Try using a whistle for recall by practicing at home, using your normal recall word followed by the toots on the whistle you decide to use and reward really well, something like a piece of cooked chicken or a tiny bit of salami. It won't take long before the association of whistle equals really tasty food. A whistle will really carry over a long distance and often stops a dog in its tracks once it's been trained to the whistle


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Alfie does it but I found the treat he likes the most....stinky cooked liver....I keep a little bag of it with me. When he runs off after another dog I use the phrase "Alfie what have I got here" when he hears that he comes running back because he knows he'll get some liver.

I only ever use the liver in this situation other situations he gets normal treats it reinforces the fact that he will always get liver if he comes back to that phrase ... It doesn't always work...8 times out of 10 but I know it will never be perfect but that's ok really as it's much better than it used to be


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## Megpoochy (Jul 24, 2016)

labradrk said:


> Do you have any open areas like parks where you can put a decent distance between you and other dogs while you work with her? obviously dog parks aren't particularly conductive for recall training (I'm guessing by the terminology you use you are in the USA rather than the UK?) and nor are beaches for similar reasons.....too many people/off lead dogs and not enough space.


We are in the UK; but we we do have a local dog park 

There is a huge playing field which we frequent, bigger than several football pitched, we were there this evening in fact. However all she has to do is get sight of a dog waaaaaaay off in the distance and she's gone!

We don't often visit the beach but there are several 'coastal paths' up on the cliffs etc which we like to stoll along.

Perhaps persistence with the long-line is key. She has been so easy to train in all other respects.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

*Why can't I get a reliable *recall*?*

'Come' is no harder to train than any other behaviour but in real life it has a huge number of criteria that have to be raised one at a time in order to guarantee success.

Often when puppies are brought home to their new owners this is the first time they have ever been separated from their dam and siblings and so they naturally attach themselves to their new family by following them about everywhere. Owners find this quite attractive and wrongly assume that this trait will continue into adolescence/adulthood, whatever the circumstances. A dangerous trap to fall into…

At some point in time, usually from around 6 - 10 months, depending on the individual, "Velcro" dog will morph into "Bog off" dog (this is especially true of a breed that has been developed to exhibit a high degree of initiative). This is the time when owners suddenly realize that their dog will not recall when it sees another dog/person etc. Not only is this inconvenient but potentially dangerous as the dog could be at risk of injury from a car/train/another dog etc.

*How and when do I start with a puppy?*

My advice is to prepare for this inevitability from the day you take your puppy home. If you are lucky the breeder will have started this process whilst still in the nest by conditioning the puppies to a whistle blown immediately before putting the food bowl down during weaning.

Dogs learn by cause and effect ie sound of whistle = food. If you, the new owner, continue this from the moment your puppy arrives you will lay down strong foundations for the future.

By using the whistle in association with meals/food you need to establish the following criteria:

• Come from across the room. 
• Come from out of sight 
• Come no matter who calls
• Come even if you are busy doing something else
• Come even if you are asleep. 
• Come even if you are playing with something/someone else
• Come even if you are eating

Once this goal has been realized in the house, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the garden.

Once this goal has been realized in the garden, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the park/field etc.

To train this, or any other behaviour:

1. Make it easy for the dog to get it right
2. Provide sufficient reward

Do not expect a dog to come away from distractions in the park until you have trained it to come to you in the park when no diversions are around. Be realistic and manage your expectations; your sphere of influence/control over your dog may be only 20m to begin with, therefore do not hazard a guess that the dog, at this level of training, will successfully recall from 50m or more away. Distance, like every other criterion, must be built up over time.

Some simple rules to follow when training the recall:

• Whistle/signal/call only once (why train the dog to deliberately ignore your first command?)
• Do not reinforce slow responses for the dog coming eventually after it has cocked its leg, sniffed the tree etc (you get what you train!)
• If you know that the dog will not come back to you in a certain situation, go and get him rather than risk teaching him that he can ignore you. (If you have followed the programme correctly you will never put your dog in a position to fail).
• Practise recalling the dog, putting him on the lead for a few seconds, reinforce with food/toy etc and immediately release the dog. Do this several times during a walk etc so that the dog does not associate a recall with going on the lead and ending the walk or being put on the lead with the cessation of fun.
• Eventually, when the behaviour is very strong, alternate rewards ie verbal praise, physical praise, food, toy and also vary the "value" of the rewards, sometimes a plain piece of biscuit, sometimes a piece of cooked liver etc so that you become a walking slot machine (and we all know how addictive gambling can be)!

In my experience recall training should be consistent and relentless for the first two years of a dog's life before it can be considered truly dependable. You should look on it as a series of incremental steps, rather than a single simple behaviour, and something that will require lifelong maintenance.

*What about an older or rescue dog?*

Follow the same programme as outlined above however for recalcitrant dogs that have received little or no training, I would recommend dispensing with the food bowl and feeding a dog only during recalls to establish a strong behaviour quickly.

Your training should be over several sessions a day, which means you can avoid the risk of bloat. It is essential that the dog learns that there will be consequences for failure as well as success.

Divide the day's food ration up into small bags (between10 - 30), if the dog recalls first time, it gets food, if it does not, you can make a big show of saying "too bad" and disposing of that portion of food (either throw it away or put aside for the next day).

Again, raise the criteria slowly as outlined in puppy training.

Hunger is very motivating!

For those of you who believe it unfair/unhealthy to deprive a dog of its full daily ration, not having a reliable recall is potentially life threatening for the dog ……………

*How do I stop my dog chasing joggers/cyclists/skateboarders/rabbits/deer?*

Chasing something that is moving is a management issue. Do not put your dog in a position where it can make a mistake. Again you need to start training from a pup but if you have already allowed your dog to learn and practise this behaviour you may need to rely on a trailing line until your dog is desensitised to these distractions and knows that listening to you results in a great reinforcement. Chasing is a behaviour much better never learned as it is naturally reinforcing to the dog, which makes it hard for you to offer a better reinforcement. If you want to have a bombproof recall while your dog is running away from you then use the following approach:

Your goal is to train so that your dog is totally used to running away from you at top speed, and then turning on a sixpence to run toward you when you give the recall cue.

You need to set up the training situation so that you have total control over the triggers. For this you will need to gain the co-operation of a helper. If you have a toy crazy dog you can practice this exercise by throwing a toy away from the dog towards someone standing 30 or 40 feet away. At the instant the toy is thrown, recall your dog! If the dog turns toward you, back up several steps quickly, creating even more distance between the you and the toy and then throw another toy in the opposite direction (same value as one thrown)..

If the dog ignores you and continues toward the thrown object, your "helper" simply picks the ball up and ignores dog. When dog eventually returns (which it will because it's getting no reinforcement from anyone or anything), praise only. Pretty soon the dog will start to respond to a recall off a thrown toy. You will need to mix in occasions the toy is thrown and the dog is allowed to get it ie you do NOT recall if you want to make sure it does not lose enthusiasm for retrieving.

For the food obsessed dog, you can get your helper to wave a food bowl with something the dog loves in it and then recall the dog as soon as you let it go to run towards the food; again if the dog ignores you and continues to the food, your helper simply ensures the dog cannot access the food and start again. (It is extremely important that the helper does not use your dog's name to call it for obvious reasons).

Gradually increase the difficulty of the recall by letting the dog get closer and closer to the toy/food. Praise the moment the dog turns away from the toy/food in the early stages of training. Don't wait until the dog returns to you; the dog must have instant feedback.

Once the dog is fluent at switching directions in the middle of a chase, try setting up the situation so that it is more like real life. Have someone ride a bike/run/skate past. (It is unrealistic to factor in deer/rabbits however if your training is thorough the dog will eventually be conditioned to return to you whatever the temptation in most contexts).

Until your training gets to this level, don't let the dog off-lead in a situation in which you don't have control over the chase triggers. Don't set the dog up to fail, and don't allow it to rehearse the problem behaviour. Remember, every time a dog is able to practise an undesirable behaviour it will get better at it!

Most people do not play with toys correctly and therefore the dog is not interested in them or, if it gets them, fails to bring it back to the owner.

Play the two ball game, once you have a dog ball crazy. Have two balls the same, throw one to the left, when the dog gets it, call him like crazy waving the next ball; as he comes back throw the other ball to the right and keep going left right so that YOU are the centre of the game and the dog gets conditioned to return to you for the toy. Once this behaviour is established you can then introduce the cues for out and then make control part of the game ie the game is contingent on the dog sitting and then progress to a sequence of behaviours.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

*Seminars*

6 - 9 August 2016 John Rogerson Ultimate Recall Course Nottingham

http://inlinedogtraining.co.uk/course details-2.html

*Books*

Teach your Dog to Come when Called

By Katie Buvala

Line Training for Dogs
By Monika Gutman

Total Recall
By Pippa Mattinson

Teach your Dog to Come When Called
By Erica Peachey

Training your Dog to Come When Called
By John Rogerson

The Dog Vinci Code

By John Rogerson

Stop! How to control predatory Chasing in Dogs
by David Ryan

Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts 
By Clarissa Von Reinhardt

*DVDs*

Line Training for Dogs
By Monika Gutman

Really Reliable Recall 
By Leslie Nelson

Training the Recall
By Michael Ellis

Training the Whistle Recall

By Pamela Dennison

Your clever dog: Getting your dog to come when called 
By Sarah Whitehead

Does your dog whizz back to you as soon as you call his name?

Can you call him to you even when there are other dogs or distractions? Teaching your dog to come to you when you call is the cornerstone of training and the gateway to allowing him more freedom in the park.

If your dog has selective deafness, ignores you in the garden or the park, or would rather play with other dogs than come when you call, this specially designed training session is for you.

Ideal for starting out with puppies or rehomed dogs, and also for dogs that ignore you or are slow to come when called, despite previous training.

Including:
• How to know what's rewarding for your dog and what's not
• Five times when you shouldn't call your dog!
• Using your voice to call versus using a whistle
• What to do if you call and your dog doesn't come to you
The pack contains: A clicker, long line (worth £10), training manual, instructional DVD: 55 mins approx running time including Bonus trick, Bonus Training Session, Intro to Clicker Training, Q & A with Sarah

http://www.dogtrain.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?products_id=80&osCsid=kguat02fdk6a8q00ma31k228n1

*

Website articles:*

How to use a long line properly here (under information to download)

http://www.dogpsyche.co.uk/

http://www.apdt.co.uk/content/files/training-tips/RECALL.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/reliable_recall.pdf

http://www.clickerdogs.com/perfectrecall.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/listofreinforcers.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/distracti...yourrecall.htm

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/20...call-collapse/

http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm

http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_f...e%20recall.pdf

http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/teaching-come/

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-...y-dog-chasing/

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/come-at-the-park

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/te..._to_you_on_cue

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/be...me-when-called

http://www.kathysdao.com/articles/The_First_Steps_to_Teaching_a_Reliable_Recall.html

http://www.kathysdao.com/articles/More_on_the_Reliable_Recall.html

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/lessons/Lesson6.html

http://denisefenzipetdogs.com/2015/09/21/recall-training/


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I would recommend using her nose to your advantage too, see here

*Scentwork Resources*

*Books*

Anne Lill Kvam The Canine Kingdom of Scent

Martina Nau Snooping Around

Pam McKinnon Talking Dogs Scentwork; The Manual

Roy Hunter Fun Nosework for Dogs

Vivian Theby Smellorama; nose games for dogs

*DVDs*

Scent 1 Pam Mackinnon

Scent 2 Pam Mackinnon

*Website*

http://talkingdogsscentwork.co.uk/Talking_Dogs_Scentwork/Welcome.html

http://suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/scent-games-educating-your-dogs-nose


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Weve 1 who has to go and see every dog we meet on the walkies field, and a guy with a wheelbarrow, and she focused on a couple trimming a hedge...100% focus...

but shes a collie....she wants to herd/play with all the dogs


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## Megpoochy (Jul 24, 2016)

BrackenFlight said:


> A long line is a good idea as she can run and play. but you still have a grip so if the recall isnt working at least she is still attached to you.
> We trained swee to come back to a shepards whistle as well as his name - so when he wondered off and couldnt hear us as well he would hear that. Also the sharper blast of a whistle will often stop them from what they are doing and make them turn and look at you.


Thanks!! We'll give a whistle a go


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## Megpoochy (Jul 24, 2016)

Siskin said:


> That's a good point about the whistle, forgotten about that one.
> 
> Try using a whistle for recall by practicing at home, using your normal recall word followed by the toots on the whistle you decide to use and reward really well, something like a piece of cooked chicken or a tiny bit of salami. It won't take long before the association of whistle equals really tasty food. A whistle will really carry over a long distance and often stops a dog in its tracks once it's been trained to the whistle


Thanks. We'll definitely give the whistle a go!


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## Megpoochy (Jul 24, 2016)

jamat said:


> Alfie does it but I found the treat he likes the most....stinky cooked liver....I keep a little bag of it with me. When he runs off after another dog I use the phrase "Alfie what have I got here" when he hears that he comes running back because he knows he'll get some liver.
> 
> I only ever use the liver in this situation other situations he gets normal treats it reinforces the fact that he will always get liver if he comes back to that phrase ... It doesn't always work...8 times out of 10 but I know it will never be perfect but that's ok really as it's much better than it used to be


Great tip, thank you. Meg loves peanut butter, perhaps that's could be her liver! We'll give it a go!


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2016)

For goodness sake please attatch the long line to a harness to not a collar. Is your dog ok with chicken, Buddy would do anything for chicken. Sadly I can't use just one treat for recall or any type of training actually has he tends to get bored so one time in any training session I might have some chicken, another cheese, another coachies treats, another natures menu, another Arden grange and so on. I only ever buy grain free treats as grains send is skin red raw and itchy. Only a certain cheese he can have so have to make sure it is the one he is ok with, he loves the odd bit of ham too and sausages. Sometimes I put kibble in the treat bag with his treats too so he knows he will get something but doesn't know if it will be a treat or a bit of kibble.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Please also keep him on the lead when on a cliff top path, we have heard of far too many tragedies that involve dogs chasing something over the edge.


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## Hannah1982 (Jul 18, 2016)

Is there any way I can save this thread to refer back to? I'm having the exact same issue with coben and there's such a wealth of info in this thread I'd like to save it to refer back to as well as being able to show hubby when he gets home x


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## BrackenFlight (Mar 9, 2015)

Probably book marking it on your computer is the best way.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

I think a lot of it is probably age. My dog used to be a nightmare around other dogs and he would run off towards them and I couldn't get him back and if he decided to play, I could be stood there for ages and would have to physically grab him and remove him if I wanted to go. Nowadays he ignores other dogs unless in very close quarters or they are approaching him and he is only interested in a quick sniff and move on or a few minutes of playing and he is easy to move along now. He is approaching 4 years old.
The only thing I found that worked was getting a lot of use out of a Long line/Flexi, constantly working on recall and just riding it out! 
With my next dog I will be focusing a lot more on ignoring other dogs when it is a puppy, than I did with Bailey!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Molly was a pain with recall in her teens and we had to work very hard with her and still always do - we alway reinforce even thought she is now 5 years old. We worked with the book Total Recall and follow it like religion!

Also see if you can find a field near you in this group on Facebook (or if you're not on FB post your nearest town and I'll see if there is one close to you and pm the details). You can often hire out fields and use a chosen training resource with a long line and build up until you feel you can try her out, maybe off lead in the field with another dog. It will take time but I think with recall it's much safer to train in a secure place and in set ups than in real life but until then walk her on a long line so she's not able to self reward or run off over cliffs and other dangerous stuff. The more she can reward herself the more of a problem you have to master 

And I agree, long lines can be a real tangle. You can get various lengths so perhaps try something a little shorter?


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