# Won't leave other dogs alone!



## Mollythedog (Nov 1, 2012)

Molly came to us about 3 months ago after having spent 1 year at a rescue. She is going to be 2 next month. She is collie, sttafy, maybe ,lurcher mix and loves playing with other dogs - so far more than me, my husband, food or toys  She is friendly but plays quite rough so it is too much for smaller dogs. 

We are working on recalls so we don't let her off leash unless the area is reasonably clear of distractions mainly other dogs in order to play fetch. She loves playing fetch so while she is in the zone she won't get distracted. We give nearly all of her meal outside as a part of recall training.

Today I completely overlooked a scottie walking too close while we are playing. Molly dashed to the scottie and after sniffing she invited her to play, which the scottie didn't want. When the scottie growled and eventually ran off, Molly chased after her persistently, resulting the scottie barking at Molly and Molly barking back (more like demanding to play bark) around the scottie in circle. 

She did similar persistently demanding other dogs to play before and didn't seem to get at all the telling off signals by other dogs (especially if its smaller dogs). 

Molly is always quite excited with meeting other dogs. She wants to play with everyone. Our intention is to avoid her meeting other dogs when off leash at this stage. On leash, we try to give her permission to greet & play and stop. Some might say we should never let her off leash but she is high energy and needs good running. We tried long line (5m) but it became very dangerous as she run to the end of the line and throw me around - potentially other people. 

Are we doing right thing to let her meet other dogs even on leash? How can we make other dogs less exciting? How can I teach her the telling off signal and to back off? Any good tips please!!


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Young dogs need to socialise with others - it`s part of their development. As they get older they are less bothered as a rule. 
It sounds like she`s trying to make up for lost time. 
I suggest you find someone with friendly dogs she can walk with as often as possible so it`s less of a special thing. 
And join a dog training club so she can practice being around other dogs and not playing with them. 
I personally don`t like dogs greeting on lead. Dogs have a complex language including space given. Two dogs meeting will circle each other first at a distance. On lead dogs are frequently forced to come face to face - which is extremely bad manners in dog ettiquette.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

My Lab, Dex, was just like that when I rehomed him. He was 14 months and desperate to mix with other dogs. But because he was already very big and bouncy, I had to be really careful which dogs he was allowed to play with. His recall was non existent at that stage but I felt I couldn't simply keep him on a lead the whole time as he hadn't been socialised and I wanted him to learn how to play with other dogs nicely.

I found the best thing to do was find one or two other owners who also had large, young, playful dogs, and ask if they were happy for my dog to greet theirs. Dex met a gorgeous Flatcoat Retriever and a fab Lab X Poodle and the three of them had wonderful fun tearing around the park together 

In fact they are still best mates now, two years later.

At the same time, I practised recall with Dex constantly at home, in the garden, at the park when other dogs were not around. It has taken a long time to get a decent recall but it's much improved now.

Re greeting on lead:

I do not allow Dex to meet other dogs when on the lead. It's not necessary and it tends to be far too tense for both dogs - the leads block them from communicating naturally and the potential for over excitement is far too great.

Teach your dog the 'watch me' command, firstly with no distractions and work on this until it's at a point where your dog will focus on YOU for a treat instead of on other dogs when out lead walking.


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## sbonnett76 (Apr 6, 2010)

We have been working on a similar issue with our 3 1/2 year old rescue rottie, who we've had for just over a year.

In the early days, we couldn't walk past another (on the lead) dog without Roxy spinning around and trying to say hello. It was so embarrassing and naturally, we became really tense whenever we saw another dog approaching. No one likes to see a dog on its hind legs straining to get to another dog, let alone a rottie!

We started to go to weekly socialisation classes and gradually, there have been real improvements. We do a lot of work on the watch command, which had bugger all effect at first, but slowly helped. 

Roxy is now much better on the lead when we see another dog. She will still want to say hello, but rarely does she launch towards it and with a juicy piece of sausage in the left hand, she will happily walk to heel. 

Off lead she has also improved a lot as well and we're sure it's all related. She used to approach every dog in a crouch although would always be friendly when she got there. Now her body language is much more relaxed. 

She can still be a bully though and she's never really learnt to play gently. If she's interacting with a bigger bitch or a male, she's fine, but if it's a small dog or a submissive bitch, she's like an irritating itch to them constantly being annoying. As long as the other owner doesn't mind, we try and let her have a little play and then call her away and reward her on the basis that every short positive interaction is another step forward. 

One scenario where she remains safely on lead is if we're around dogs running after balls because she would chase the dog if given the chance. It's not an aggressive chase, just an over excited desperation to play. 

Sorry I've gone on a bit! Keep persevering though, it won't be an over night fix, but with lots of yummy rewards, time and positive socialisation, you'll get there. 

Good luck!


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Mollythedog said:


> Molly came to us about 3 months ago after having spent 1 year at a rescue. She is going to be 2 next month. She is collie, sttafy, maybe ,lurcher mix and loves playing with other dogs - so far more than me, my husband, food or toys  She is friendly but plays quite rough so it is too much for smaller dogs.
> 
> We are working on recalls so we don't let her off leash unless the area is reasonably clear of distractions mainly other dogs in order to play fetch. She loves playing fetch so while she is in the zone she won't get distracted. We give nearly all of her meal outside as a part of recall training.
> 
> ...


I personally agree with John Rogerson, it is not necessary for dogs to play with other dogs at the very least until and unless you have a strong enough bond with the dog that when you call the dog it will come.

Nowadays people are OBSESSED with socialisation so they actively train their dogs to prefer being with other dogs than themselves and then wonder why they have to spend most of their lives either keeping the dog on a lead, long line or chasing it.

I would strongly suggest you read Out and about with your Dog by Sue STernberg who starts off her book by saying:

_The absolute hardest, most problematic most diffiuclt way for dogs to greet and meet is on leash. And there are really only two potential outcomes for the greeting and neither is particularly useful or desirable.

1 After the initial investigative sniffing and greeing ritual the dogs play

2 After the initial investigative sniffing and greeting ritual, the dogs fight.

Neither is actually better than the other. If the dogs sniff and then play, your dog has just gotton a jackpot sized reward for going up to a stange dog and introducing itself. The next time he sees a strange dog, he will want to pull towards that dog to greet it, to see if he can make a friend and have a little play session. Each subsequent time your do will strain harder and harder to get to the other dogs hoping to get to stop and play. If nothing else, this will lead to a harder and harder time managing your dog on walks, since he now gets so distracted around other dogs._


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> I personally agree with John Rogerson, it is not necessary for dogs to play with other dogs at the very least until and unless you have a strong enough bond with the dog that when you call the dog it will come.
> 
> Nowadays people are OBSESSED with socialisation so they actively train their dogs to prefer being with other dogs than themselves and then wonder why they have to spend most of their lives either keeping the dog on a lead, long line or chasing it.
> 
> ...


*sigh* another book on the list. Thanks for the informative post SB. That makes perfect sense.


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## Mollythedog (Nov 1, 2012)

Thank you for all of advice here!
I started taking Molly to obedience class and to my surprise she did very well. She was bit excited at the beginning but once I started giving her command with treats reward she focused on me and looked like she was enjoying responding to my command. So I will continue the class. It is good place to distraction - proof some commands. 

I hear what smokeybear wrote and I am going to read the book by Sternberg (Thank you very much Smokeybear!). Molly seems to show no difference between on-leash or off-leash meeting but I know from my previous dog Lucy that it is hard for dogs to greet on leash.


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

Ive been doing the look at me thing with Bramble and Im amazed how well its working, he gets distracted even on a long line.He wont attempt to run over to another dog,but will stop and turn towards the noise. Ive also been keeping his breakfast to take out for walks/training sessions and he has to earn it by sniffing it out. Being a spaniel he doesnt miss many pieces.:lol: I dont want to speak to soon,but he is coming on really well,when he finds the wainwrights I throw randomly,he will return and look at me for more of the game. This is a dog that would not make eye contact with me for the first six months when we were outside the house, plus he will return to me if I stop walking, I know he's on a long line but the improvements are so encouraging. Still wants to get in that undergrowth though :crazy:


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## thronesfan (Jun 20, 2012)

Cookie was absolutely obsessed with other dogs for quite a while when we first got her (a little over 6 months ago). Certain dogs still seem to grab her attention, so there's still a bit of work to do, but she is getting much better. We can now take her to the park and she'll see other dogs running around off lead, but ignore them and play fetch with her ball instead. There are some dogs we meet that like to play with her and she seems to have learned the difference now between those dogs that will play and dogs that won't.

The training classes we went to said not to use treats as rewards, but as Cookie is food-oriented we ignored that advice outside of the class, esp with her recall training. For a while she responded better to "What's this?" (i.e. a treat) than her name, but now "Cookie, here!" will get her back with or without a treat (unless she's having one of her "I'm going to blank you completely" moments which are fortunately becoming rare).


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## sbonnett76 (Apr 6, 2010)

thronesfan said:


> Cookie was absolutely obsessed with other dogs for quite a while when we first got her (a little over 6 months ago). Certain dogs still seem to grab her attention, so there's still a bit of work to do, but she is getting much better. We can now take her to the park and she'll see other dogs running around off lead, but ignore them and play fetch with her ball instead. There are some dogs we meet that like to play with her and she seems to have learned the difference now between those dogs that will play and dogs that won't.
> 
> The training classes we went to said not to use treats as rewards, but as Cookie is food-oriented we ignored that advice outside of the class, esp with her recall training. For a while she responded better to "What's this?" (i.e. a treat) than her name, but now "Cookie, here!" will get her back with or without a treat (unless she's having one of her "I'm going to blank you completely" moments which are fortunately becoming rare).


I'm no trainer, but I'd say you did the right thing by ignoring the class advice of no treats as a reward. Every person I've encountered has said that reward based training is the key to developing your dog and I know how much harder it would have been to have got Roxy to do anything without some tasty sausages or chicken as a bribe!

Over a year down the line she doesn't get a treat every time she follows a command, but she is still very well rewarded.


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## Mollythedog (Nov 1, 2012)

after having read the responses here and reading more books, we decided not to let Molly meet other dogs on leash. But when she meets other dogs off leash, I feel helpless when things go bad.... Molly is very fast and agile so it's very hard to catch her. 

Lately I feel Molly's encounters with other dogs when she is off leash are worse!! For the past few times, she was a compete pest demanding them to play by barking and eventually started nipping.  One time she played with this dog of her size but she grabbed his collar and didn't let go. It is dangerous game!

I could have prevented her meeting these dogs as I spotted them before Molly. But stupidly, I decided I wanted to test if Molly can ignore them or can go and greet and come back to play fetch with me. Obviously not. But I don't want to prevent her from meeting dogs at all. Or would Molly not meeting dogs at all for certain period get her to lose interest in other dogs?? 

On the other hand, I took Molly out for walk with my neighbours dog and she wasn't pest to him at all and play fetch with me.


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## Mollythedog (Nov 1, 2012)

I am pleased to post some improvements! For the past few days, she's been super good with leaving other dogs alone  I've been avoiding "testing" Molly but a few accidental encounters happened. For the past 5 times, she greeted other dogs and played a bit or asked the dogs to play but when I called, she came back and continued fetch with me!! I was very VERY pleased. She also ignored dogs in closer distance when we were playing. 

I am going to continue working on recalls and keeping up being very exciting person for her. Look like attending obedience class twice a week is paying off too. It's coming to 3 months since she came to us so our bond is getting stronger. 

Only thing is that she plays rough and cannot play with smaller dogs. Anyone knows how to stop her from biting other dogs collar? Not sure how she learnt this but she tends to do this.... :frown:


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