# First Kitten Bedtime



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Hello, I've just welcomed the newest member to my family yesterday, a 9 week old golden Chinchilla Persian who is gorgeous with a great personality and temperament. 

I'm having one issue with her though... I can't leave her alone in the living room which is also the cat room with her cat tree, litter box, etc. (All distributed around the room) and she's using all of them with no problem) She cries when I leave her during the day and she definitely cries when I'm trying to sleep at night. 

Should I be worried or is this normal for a new kitten? This is her second night and she cried all yesterday night (with a few breaks) and she is crying right now. How do I respond to this behaviour? I'm just ignoring her at the moment but I feel so guilty. I've provided her with a snuggle pad, a fan, multiple beds, pillows, blankets and am truely worried.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Here are a few pictures of our cute little Princess.


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor little girl is much too young to be away from her mum and litter mates, kittens should stay with mum for at least 12 weeks, no reputable breeder would let a baby go at just 9 weeks 

She needs loads of attention, not ignoring, she's feeling very lost and lonely.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

spotty cats said:


> Poor little girl is much too young to be away from her mum and litter mates, kittens should stay with mum for at least 12 weeks, no reputable breeder would let a baby go at just 9 weeks
> 
> She needs loads of attention, not ignoring, she's feeling very lost and lonely.


I've sat with her all day, playing with her, stroking her and she's been fine. I would let her upstairs but I'm afraid that I'd squash her by accident while moving in bed. I'm really hoping she settles down soon. The breeders do seem extremely reputable and are experienced. They have told me to contact them if I had problems but I thought I'd seek information from other people who may have experienced something similar.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Awwww, what a gorgeous little kitten, really adorable  She looks younger than 9 weeks old though, more like 6 or 7 weeks old. Breeders of pedigrees usually home their kittens at 12 or 13 weeks old, as recommended by the GCCF. Any younger than 12 or 13 weeks is regarded as too young to leave mum.

This dear little mite is homesick for her mum and her siblings. Please, _please _don't leave her alone to cry all night! She needs companionship, mothering and reassurance, bless her.

If you have other cats the kitten should be kept separately from them at present anyway, and introduced gradually. Also kept separate for at least 2 weeks for quarantine reasons.

I would have this little kitty in your bedroom with you at night. Buy a cheap folding dog crate and set it up in your bedroom with her food, water, litter tray, cosy bed, toys and scratch post. Put it near your bed so she can smell your scent and feel reassured. If she wakes in the night speak gently to her so she knows you are near and she is safe. This will help build the bonds of trust.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ellie-Bo-F...=1498975316&sr=8-1&keywords=folding+dog+crate


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

You've certainly got a keen eye since she is around 6 or 7 weeks in the posted photos. I like the dog crate idea and I'll order a nice large one immediately.


----------



## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

she's so beautiful, definitely a little Princess - I don't think I could bear to be away from her for a minute !


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I can only repeat what @spotty cats and @chillminx have said about her age - she is far too young to have left and no reputable breeder in the UK would let her go at that age  Is she registered with one of the governing bodies for cat breeding? You can see how young she is by the colour of eyes - kittens are born with blue eyes which in most breeds start to change colour around 6 to 8 weeks
She will be lonely and missing her litter mates as well as her mum - at 9 weeks she would still have been suckling even though she may be eating well. As well as adopting @chillminx advice I would put a small teddy or similar toy with her to cuddle up to. 
She is a little sweetheart I will give you that but you may have bought yourself a lot of heartache too - she will not have been vaccinated yet and could have other underlying health issues - a Persian breeder (we have a couple on here) should be able to tell you what sort of health checks should have been done by her breeder.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

We have took her to the vet and they have said she's very healthy (breeders took her to the vet too but we wanted to be cautious as new slaves) She's going for her vaccinations on Monday and her parents are both GCCF registered.

I like the teddy idea and I'll definitely go out and buy one today.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Also unrelated question, would it be wise to continue the PetPlan insurance she came with or would shopping around be more smart?

This is my first pet by the way, if that wasn't clear. :Happy:Cat


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Persians are a social breed and don't do well if left alone. My OH hates cats in our bed, and didn't believe me about this. I left him to teach the cats that the bed was a no go area, and he couldn't do it. They pined, they cried, they stuck to us like glue for the rest of the time. Mine go off their food if left without human company, if they know that there are humans in the house. For example, my guys are happy to settle when we go out to work, but if we're in and they cannot get to us, their distress levels shoot through the roof. I'm afraid you'll have to just sleep lightly for a few nights and let her join you in bed.

As to your breeder being good, they're not I'm afraid. Any cat, but moreso a Persian, should remain with mum until at least 12 weeks, preferably older. Persians are a slow maturing breed, and aren't psychologically ready to leave mum until this age, and sometimes older. I keep mine sometimes until they are 16 weeks old for this very reason, and did this with 2 of my last litter in fact. I have a good idea who your breeder might be, and I can promise you that if it's who I'm thinking of, reputable and ethical are two words which probably don't figure in their dictionary despite the front which has fooled many, many people.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

It's sad to hear that they're not as good as we assumed them to be but what's done is done and now we have a super social Persian kitty who needs attention. I have opened all interior doors today and she's happily roaming the house. I'll take your advice and allow her into my bedroom at night and see how it goes.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Junaki said:


> It's sad to hear that they're not as good as we assumed them to be but what's done is done and now we have a super social Persian kitty who needs attention. I have opened all interior doors today and she's happily roaming the house. I'll take your advice and allow her into my bedroom at night and see how it goes.


We also drove quite far to pick her up, 1 hour and 30 minutes. We paid £650 for her, she had silver bothers/sisters also reserved but for £600. Do the prices sound alright?

She is also exceptionally confident but only when people are around, she seems to get really upset when I leave the room.

They are loving breeders though since the cats have been brought up to be extremely friendly at such a young age. The breeders are from the North East so if you're referring to anyone near Oxford then you may be mistaken.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Junaki said:


> We also drove quite far to pick her up, 1 hour and 30 minutes. We paid £650 for her, she had silver bothers/sisters also reserved but for £600. Do the prices sound alright?
> 
> She is also exceptionally confident but only when people are around, she seems to get really upset when I leave the room.
> 
> They are loving breeders though since the cats have been brought up to be extremely friendly at such a young age. The breeders are from the North West so if you're referring to anyone near Oxford then you may be mistaken.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Did the breeder say why they were homing the kitten at only 9 weeks? It is very unusual for reputable breeders to do that.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

chillminx said:


> Did the breeder say why they were homing the kitten at only 9 weeks? It is very unusual for reputable breeders to do that.


They said minimum 9 weeks but they would hold onto them as long as anyone would want. Me being quite oblivious to the rules about homing Persians, I wanted to take her in as soon as the breeder would let me. Two of her siblings are leaving today too. I wouldn't have got her so early if I knew it would make her upset.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

You might be interested to read the GCCF breeder's Code of Ethics :

https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/BS_COE_booklet.pdf

GCCF says pedigree kittens should be fully vaccinated before being homed, and as the first vaccination is done at 9 weeks, and the second around 12 weeks. this means the kitten can't be homed until after 12 weeks. This applies to all pedigree kittens, not just Persian kittens.

*QUOTE/ (*_from GGCF website as above)_* Regarding the sale and placement of kittens

.................*(_the breeder is) _*to ensure kittens leave for their new homes fully vaccinated, insured and appropriately treated for parasites, vet health checked and to the best of *(_the breeder's_) * knowledge in good health./QUOTE
*
Has the breeder given you details of which health checks were carried out as your kitten is a Persian? e.g. a test for PKD (Polycystic Kidney Disease) is essential.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

chillminx said:


> You might be interested to read the GCCF breeder's Code of Ethics :
> 
> https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/BS_COE_booklet.pdf
> 
> ...


Yes, they explicitly mentioned that the parents and kittens are PKD negative and have been checked for the horrible illness. The kittens aren't registered but the parents are BUT we did receive a certificate showing her bloodlines/family tree.


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm actually thinking of a breeder up north, so suspect I'm thinking about the same ones.

Did you see proof that parents were PKD free, or did you just accept their word for it?

The prices are Ok. A little on the high side but not excessively so. I've seen others go for that price.


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

carly87 said:


> The prices are Ok. A little on the high side but not excessively so. I've seen others go for that price.


Unregistered at nine weeks of age? Wow!


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

carly87 said:


> I'm actually thinking of a breeder up north, so suspect I'm thinking about the same ones.
> 
> Did you see proof that parents were PKD free, or did you just accept their word for it?
> 
> The prices are Ok. A little on the high side but not excessively so. I've seen others go for that price.


We saw vet papers proving it and also took her to our local vet just to make sure.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

She seems very relaxed today and has managed to stay in the 'cat' room on her own. She also has free access to upstairs and now seems to have lost interest in my bedroom. Thank you for all the help everyone!!!


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Junaki said:


> We saw vet papers proving it and also took her to our local vet just to make sure.


PKD and other breed required tests are done via a DNA swab, not a vet check.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

spotty cats said:


> PKD and other breed required tests are done via a DNA swab, not a vet check.


I can assure you her bloodline is PKD negative.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

This is a picture of her right now.

I realise the breeders should have held onto her longer but they're not inexperienced either. They're very responsible regarding the health of the cats and provided daily updates regarding our kitty. The kitten is going for her vaccinations tomorrow and her first full vet consultation since we got her.

Someone also picked up one of Princess's sisters today (they drove from the south east all the way to breeder)


----------



## Kittynanna (Feb 15, 2015)

She is just adorable.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Junaki said:


> View attachment 316615
> This is a picture of her right now.
> 
> I realise the breeders should have held onto her longer but they're not inexperienced either. They're very responsible regarding the health of the cats and provided daily updates regarding our kitty. The kitten is going for her vaccinations tomorrow and her first full vet consultation since we got her.
> ...


I'm not one to argue with the practices of the breeder when I'm just a newbie pet owner. epressed


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

They are not responsible breeders, as they let a kitten leave underage, not vaccinated (and I assume not microchipped or spayed), and the kitten isn't registered.



Junaki said:


> I'm not one to argue with the practices of the breeder when I'm just a newbie pet owner. epressed


Bybs exist because people support them over rescues or ethical breeders.
A little research and lots of questions beforehand can easily avoid this.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Junaki said:


> I'm not one to argue with the practices of the breeder when I'm just a newbie pet owner.





spotty cats said:


> They are not responsible breeders, as they let a kitten leave underage, not vaccinated (and I assume not microchipped or spayed), and the kitten isn't registered.
> 
> Bybs exist because people support them over rescues or ethical breeders.
> A little research and lots of questions beforehand can easily avoid this.


I didn't say they were responsible and I agree with all the points everyone mentioned. I can't do anything about it anymore though and at least the new kitten can go to a home where she will be loved. I found her on Pets4Homes as an experienced breeder who has had previous Persian litters. As someone with no prior idea about purchasing kittens other than the basic stuff that every kitty guide mentions, I was clueless. She is a beautiful kitten and I'm as troubled (if not more) as now I have to ensure she is vaccinated, spayed, etc.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

She is such an adorable wee poppet!. I expect she will have a wonderful life with you.  

I would love to see more photos of her as she grows up. I bet she will be a very beautiful adult as she is such a pretty kitten.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

chillminx said:


> She is such an adorable wee poppet!. I expect she will have a wonderful life with you.
> 
> I would love to see more photos of her as she grows up. I bet she will be a very beautiful adult as she is such a pretty kitten.


I'll definitely keep everyone posted but I'm not sure which sub forum to use 'cat gallery' or 'cat chat'?


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Junaki said:


> I'll definitely keep everyone posted but I'm not sure which sub forum to use 'cat gallery' or 'cat chat'?


'Cat Chat' is best. It's where we mostly hang out


----------



## KittenEevee (May 19, 2017)

When I first got my kitten at 12 weeks, I said she couldn't go on the bed with us. 
She used to cry all the time and scratch at the door and become really distressed. I used to wake up to go sit with her. I'd cuddle her and soothe her back to sleep but 10 minutes later she'd cry. I let her come into the bedroom and now she's 11 months old and still sleeps on our bed.

When we first got her, I rearranged my shifts so I had all my days off together and my partner would try work earlys if I was working. So she was never alone for a long period of time. my partners sister visited and gave eevee food and playtime and spent time with her for the first month.


----------



## KittenEevee (May 19, 2017)

Your little kitten is gorgeous.


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

No. Fully registered at 13!


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Hi everyone, she went for her first vaccination yesterday and our vet was very happy. Everybody in the the waiting room all stared in awe how cute she was! Since posting this she has settled in very well and is barely causing any problems at bed time.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Aww bless her.  Hopefully that means that she has company at night and is not on her own.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Also I'm not planning to breed or anything just keeping her as a house pet so I was wondering if the lack of registration would cause any problems? We do have a certificate thing with her genealogy all the way up to her grandparents with their pedigree names.


----------



## Junaki (Jul 2, 2017)

Here are some pictures I took so enjoy!


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Awwwwww! What an absolute poppet! 

Reminds me of how Persian kittens used to look 50 yrs ago when I was growing up - before they started to be bred with squashed faces . I would have one that looks like yours in an instant if I could! I haven't seen one for ages that has the original look like yours has. So cute!


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

chillminx said:


> Awwwwww! What an absolute poppet!
> Reminds me of how Persian kittens used to look 50 yrs ago when I was growing up - before they started to be bred with squashed faces . I would have one that looks like yours in an instant if I could! I haven't seen one for ages that has the original look like yours has. So cute!


Goldens are non-silver chinchillas which tend to be less extreme type than other Persians. I will be very interested to see how much her tabby markings fade as she gets older. I think the wide band gene does have a gradual effect on reducing the pattern but I have never seen such a young wide band kitten so I was surprised to see the extent of her markings.


----------



## Char8607 (Dec 4, 2016)

What an absolute beauty! My kitty was the same when we had her! Due to the need to separate her from our resident 7 year old floof it ultimately resulted in myself or my other half sleeping on the floor of the spare room for a while then moving to the sofa when she was a little bigger! Now she struts around like she owns the place; Storm lets her think she does although we all know he's the boss really!


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@QOTN - the Golden Chinchillas certainly are very pretty and many people seem to think so, judging by the reactions the OP's cute kitten has had here, pet owners in her vet's waiting room, and probably elsewhere....Makes me wonder (again) with the Chinchillas being so popular, who actually prefers the more extreme type of Persian look. 

I have a friend in the US who years ago had a Himalayan/Colourpoint Persian. She was a really pretty little cat, with a short nose, a retrousse nose one might say, a rather similar kind of face to the Chinchilla and nothing like the squashed faces the Colourpoint Persians I have seen in the UK. Perhaps the breed has now gone the same way in the US, I don't know. Sad, if so...


----------



## claire8234 (Mar 8, 2013)

Oh bless her she is such a gorgeous little thing. 

When I had young foster kittens they always slept in my bedroom. I had a puppy crate with a litter tray and bed in and placed it next to my bed. I was close enough to comfort them but they were safe and not able to clamber into my bed! You could try doing that and placing a teddy with her or even a pet safe heat pad so she has something warm to snuggle up against. 

If you have an old t shirt wear it to bed and then then next night place it in with her so she has something that smells like you. There is no reason why she cant sleep with you. Place a fleecy blanket at the bottom of your bed and she might settle there although I expect you would have to keep putting her back a lot! 

My cat used to sleep curled up on my chest or under my chin from 11weeks of age - you just become aware of where they are and I never squished him

X


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

CM, the breeders are working on shortening the chinny's nose to be in line with the other Persians.

I've often wondered if it would be worth registering an offshoot of the Persian breed with these longer noses/older style face structure. They'd need to be registered as a different breed of course, but I never got beyond the pondering/idle musing stage.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

carly87 said:


> CM, the breeders are working on shortening the chinny's nose to be in line with the other Persians..


Why would anyone want to spoil such a perfect creature @carly87 ?? I despair of human beings sometimes, I really do,  As a species all too often we have to tamper, never seem to be able to leave well alone, when things are just fine as they are! 

I would be very upset if one day there were no more Chinchilla Persians looking like the OP's beautiful kitten.:Bawling


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

CM, it's because they aren't doing very well on the show bench when in classes with typey Persians. They don't win BIS or get placed very often in finals. In short, they are very hard to show. Breed standards are clear on how they want the type to be. Although I breed typey (not extreme) Persians, and will continue to do so as long as the breed standard dictates it, I do wish there was a place left in the breeding world for these longer nosed cats. They are incredibly pretty! My Millie, who had a nose like a ski slope, was one of the prettiest cats I ever bred, even if she was completely unsuited for shows/titles. I don't say this for health reasons etc as personally, given that I select rigorously and some might say almost harshly (I remove absolutely anything with the tiniest health fault from my breeding programme) I don't tend to see them in my flatties, but more because they're incredibly lovely, and actually more true to the type of the original Persian.


----------



## Smuge (Feb 6, 2017)

carly87 said:


> *CM, the breeders are working on shortening the chinny's nose to be in line with the other Persians.*
> .


This makes me kind of sad. I love the Persian face, but every now and then I hear Tali (who is not extreme) have a deep sniff or two and feel bad about what was bred into the breed.

Seems a shame to breed the longer nose completely out of Persian breed :/ I assume the longer nose is the "natural" Persian


----------



## Smuge (Feb 6, 2017)

I felt bloody awful leaving Tali in the living room on the first night, tho she seemed to be absolutely fine and I didn't even hear her crying. She did this for a night or two (mainly as I didn't have anymore littertrays) but ever since she has slept on a basket right beside our bed (and just beside my pillow  ) luckily she is an absolute angel at night, otherwise we would have to rethink the idea


----------

