# Help! 1 fish fat, 1 fish half dead...



## godfrey105 (Apr 18, 2009)

Hi

We are very inexperienced fish keepers; have 2 small coldwater goldfish-type (though not actual goldfish as they do not grow big; sorry I can't remember exactly what they are called). Anyway, they belong to our 9 year old daughter, who is away at grandparents this week. They live in nice big tank and are fed regularly, though as they are in her room we haven't been looking at them much except to feed them. Anyway, we noticed today that one of them is looking very weak and doesn't seem to be feeding. We have tried giving extra food but the other one just eats it. We thought about taking the weak one out of the tank (with tank water) and putting it somewhere smaller so it can get to food more easily without competition, but we are worried the move might traumatise it to the point of death. But if we move out the fat one, I'm not sure the thin one has the strength to make it to the surface to feed. Daughter is back tomorrow - we'd prefer her not to come back to dead fish if possible... any suggestions?

Thanks and best regards,
Sarah


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi 

Sorry to hear about your poorly fish 
I think the best thing to do is to try and figure out why the sickly one isn't eating - there must be a reason for it, and unless there is actual bullying from the healthy one I'm not sure theres any point in separating them.

So, if you could answer a couple of questions it would really help...
Do you have a test kit to test the water, and if so can you tell us results for ammonia, nitrite & nitrate?
When you say that the tank is 'big' - how big do you mean? If you don't know it in litres or gallons then just the tank dimensions will do.
How long has the tank been set up and was it cycled before the fish were added?
Is there a filter in the tank and what kind is it?

Lastly is there any chance of getting a pic of them up? I'm not too sure what you mean by them being golfish-types but not actually goldfish... maybe they're fancy goldfish? Anyway, it'll help if we can identify exactly what they are! 

Sorry for all the questions, but the more information you can give the easier it'll be to figure out whats gone wrong


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## godfrey105 (Apr 18, 2009)

Hi there

Thanks a lot for getting back to us. We haven't got a test kit, I'm afraid, though we haven't topped up the water for a few weeks, so maybe that might be a problem.

The tank is 45cm wide x 25cm high x 20cm deep. It's a Rena one as far as I remember, with a lid. The filter is electric and has a sponge bit inside.

We bought the tank and fish in September, and while I'm not sure what you mean by 'cycling' the tank, we did treat the water and gradually acclimatised the fish over a few hours by mixing the tank water and the water they arrived in, as instructed by the fish shop.

We've attached some pictures of the fish (poorly one stil not looking good; swimming on its side, which can't be right) so hopefully you can ID them. They're not big; only a few cm. I seem to remember the chap in the fish shop said they were pretty low maintenance and hard to get wrong, which seemed ideal for a first step into fishkeeping. I do feel sorry for the little blighter. :sad:

Pictures are here

Hope you can help.

Thanks again

Sarah


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi again 

Right, they are both definitely fancy goldfish - the healthy one is a fantail (and he does look healthy to me & not fat! ), can't really see the poorly one very well in that pic but if he's the same shape as the other then he's probably a fantail too.

Brace yourself coz here's the bad news - I make that tank out to be roughly 20 litres which is much, much too small for a pair of goldfish. It's generally recommended that fancy goldfish have at least 40 litres *each*, which means you'd need at least an 80 litre tank for the pair of them (preferably more).

I know that sounds like a hell of a lot but there are good reasons for it. Your daughters goldfish are only babies at the moment, but they should reach an adult size of around 6 - 8 inches (not including tail!), and potentially live for around 20 years. The sheer size that they can grow to means that they need a lot of space to exercise. Goldfish also produce an _awful_ lot of waste (they're one of the messiest fish you can get!), which means that the water gets very dirty very quickly.

Unfortunately, as well as selling you the wrong kind of tank, it doesn't sound like the people at the fish shop told you anything about cycling your tank. In a nutshell the purpose of cycling a tank is to mature the filter (by building up good bacteria inside it) so that it can cope with the waste the fish produce and make the water safe for them. I'm guessing that your filter is not coping and your water quality is suffering because of it. Essentially, if the filter is not coping then the fish are effectively swimming in their own waste, which is very toxic to them and will be the reason your fish is so unwell 

Do you have a dechlorinator (stuff that removes chlorine & chloramine from tap water)? If yes, then the best thing you can do is a big water change (75% or so), making sure you dechlorinate the water first and try to get the temperature of the fresh water the same as the tanks current temp. I would continue to do this on a daily basis (changing maybe 50% of the water every day) at least until you get a test kit and can see what the water is like, because it won't take long for the water to get dirty again.

Then you need to get a test kit. NOT the ones that are strips of paper that you dip in the water coz they're rubbish(!) - you want a liquid drop test like the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or the Nutrafin one (most fish and pet shops sell these brands). They cost about £20 but it'll last you for absolutely ages - you get hundreds of tests in it.

Lastly, those fish are really going to need a bigger tank and as soon as possible, with a big filter that is suitable for a tank twice the size as the one you buy (because golfish are so messy, a big filter is vital to keep the water clean).

I'm sorry if that all comes as a bit of a bombshell. Unfortunately you've been given some truly terrible advice by your fish shop, which is depressingly common. Hopefully we'll be able to save your daughters poorly goldfish though 

_Edited to add_: I would also feed the fish sparingly for a while, as more food = more waste and you'll have a harder job keeping on top of water quality. If the poorly fish is that unwell then he's not going to eat no matter how much food you put in there, and it won't do the healthy one any harm to be fed a little less than usual.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

I was going to edit my last post again to add this, but realised that its getting ridiculously long now! 



godfrey105 said:


> I'm not sure the thin one has the strength to make it to the surface to feed.


Just a tip really - you might find it better to hold the food just under the surface of the water before letting it go - that way it'll sink to the bottom of the tank rather than float on the surface. If goldfish take in too much oxygen whilst feeding it can cause them problems with their swim bladders (they can have trouble righting themselves and sometimes end up swimming upside down). Also goldfish are naturally bottom-feeders (they spend most of their time scouring the bottom of the tank for food) so it'll be more natural for them too feed that way


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## godfrey105 (Apr 18, 2009)

Unfortunately the poorly one died. He wasn't looking too clever to start with and faded, never really making it to the surface again. Thanks very much for your kind advice, all the same.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear that 

Are you planning on getting a friend for the one thats left? Either way he is still going to need a bigger tank. Its well worth looking on ebay or joining your local freecycle group - sometimes you can get really good tanks for nothing


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