# I am disturbed! HORRENDOUS training class today...



## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

I've got a 1 year old border terrier called Maisie and she is a bit shy with other dogs as she has been attacked before and had several run ins with other dogs. We decided to take her to a local training class in Herefordshire which was actually advertised at my Vets so I assumed it would be a nice reward based positive class! 

Oh my god. It was horrendous. I am actually quite disturbed and upset by what I saw. 

Me and my partner turned up at the class which is held in a field. We spoke to the trainer who seemed nice. He was quite an old farmer man. Then we watched him deal with a dog that was barking in the class. He yanked the dog by the lead and shook him around with the collar and shouted "SHUT UP YOU BLOODY DOG, ARE YOU DEAF?" The dog then snarled back and jumped up at him and he carried on shouting at him and hit him several times. The owner of of the dog has been taught to do this to deal with her dog. So she spent the whole session just shouting things like "LEAVE" "SIT" "DOWN" but hasn't actually taught the dog what these commands mean. EVERY SINGLE person was shouting at their dog, yanking it around by the lead and hitting it. The trainer also recommended things such as shock collars, choke chains etc. it was SO old fashioned. I did not realise classes like this still existed!!! I'm disturbed. The poor dogs were all so badly behaved... It just shows that it doesn't work! I'm not ever going back and me and my partner ran off as we were terrified of what he was going to do to our dog if she reacted to another dog which she does sometimes as she is scared!

I felt like I was in some kind of horror movie or something. Scarred by this and how many people were there and how many dogs are being treated like this! The dogs were snarling and trying to bite their owners and some of them were wearing muzzles.


I cannot believe this I am still in shock. I just hope Maisie wasn't at all scarred by the whole situation either! I was actually tempted to say to everyone that maybe they need to try a different method of training as this one CLEARLY isn't working as the dogs were all behaving awfully. Made Maisie look well behaved!


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## Bagrat (Jun 4, 2012)

Oh crumbs - that sounds dreadful. Glad you could cut and run.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

That sounds horrible! I would have a word with your vets and tell them what this training class they seem to recommend entails - see what their response is to see if you need to take your business elsewhere


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

Why did you not go along first without your dog to watch, ask questions and make your decision then?


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

I may be wrong here but it soumds to me as if the Vets need to see for themselves what this training class is like before advertising this sort of training! Wouldn't fill me with confidence if I found out my vet let this bloke advertise on their noticeboard!


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

8tansox said:


> Why did you not go along first without your dog to watch, ask questions and make your decision then?


That's what we were doing! We were just watching a class but we witnessed all this horrendous training. We pretended we were going to the car to get something because we didn't know how else to get away as everyone was really into this awful way of training! We drove off!

Just can't believe it's so popular still...


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

8tansox said:


> Why did you not go along first without your dog to watch, ask questions and make your decision then?


I also think the same but possibly the OP thought that because this chap was advertising through the vet that it was good enough verfication?


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

That sounds awful. At least you realised it was bad, unlike the other owners!

I'd definitely be informing the vets too.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

8tansox said:


> Why did you not go along first without your dog to watch, ask questions and make your decision then?


Well, she/he said it was recommended by a vet. If my vet recommended a class, I'd assume it was OK (in fact I did, when I first got Ziggy, and it WAS OK, I've been with the club ever since).

OP, please name and shame, it could help other people avoid this 'trainer'.

When Kite was a pup, I was spending half my time in Nottingham where I was doing up my late mother's house. I found a training class there whose methods I didn't fully approve of, but I made sure no-one laid hands on Kite or did anything to her - as she was good as gold, it never arose anyway - but once I called in at this pet shop across the road and someone else from the class was there, picking out a choke chain the trainer had advised them to buy. Along with another class member, I managed to persuade her to go for a headcollar instead.


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## Pixieandbow (Feb 27, 2013)

Are those methods not considered cruel these days and therefore isn't there anywhere else he could be reported...somewhere that has the power to close him down?


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

It was In Hampton Bishop. It didn't have a name. It's just a local class that runs every Sunday. I don't think he is a trainer at all. I think he just owns dogs and he thinks that his method works and now he runs surprisingly popular classes! It is in a very old fashioned village so everyone there seems to be living in another time period!

It upset me to just watch it let alone someone tell me to treat MY dog like that! Luckily we got away quickly and my dog didn't get anywhere near anyone else and NOWEHERE near the trainer who would of just hit her for jumping up at him!

The funny thing was they were all SHOUTING at their dogs to sit and none of them were whereas I just whispered to Maisie "sit" and she sat perfectly for 3 minutes whilst we watched. Just shows how negative punishment just doesn't work. 

Don't get me wrong I agree that sometimes dogs need firmness otherwise they just do what they want! But I don't agree with people just treating them like ****!


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

I mean look at my pooch! How could you shout at her!!!!!


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

Not all vets see what is on their notice board though to be fair. I know it's wrong, but it's a fact. There's a vets in a nearby town and they haven't got a clue what's on their notice board - about anything, they leave it up to the receptionist/s to tidy it up, re-arrange adverts etc. which is why it's so important to go along first - then report back to the vets. I'm sure they'd want to know what they were, albeit unintentionally "promoting". 

So my advice would be to go back to the vet's surgery and enlighten them to this outdated and cruel method of training dogs.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I would have thought there was a cruelty issue here, perhaps the RSPCA could be informed, maybe they might do something. That's a maybe, knowing what they can be like. Surely someone advocating smacking dogs and suggesting e collars and the like, is a cruelty issue. If nothing else inform the vets, I can't think they would condone that sort of training.


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## Pixieandbow (Feb 27, 2013)

Vev said:


> I mean look at my pooch! How could you shout at her!!!!!


Aw...she's gorgeous :001_wub:


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Border Terriers need to be trained with sensitivity and kindness.Shouting at them gets you nowhere.Like any dog really.


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## Holtie (May 30, 2012)

Thank goodness you saw this and made your escape!!

'Maisie' is a very popular name as there is a Border Terrier at the training class I attended and her name was Maisie!!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Def have a word with your vet and tell them how abusive this guy is. As for him, I'd have told him to shove his 'training' where the sun don't shine and left in the middle of it!

Stupid people following like sheep who also have no clue, how sad!


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

Yes my border terrier has only been trained so far using kindness! However I have even too lenient with her and she is badly behaved around the home. She is the phantom stealer! Steals anything from shoes to my phone! But she can do so many tricks. All of which I've taught her to do using positive clicker teaining. Ill have to upload a video! She can do sit, stand, dance, high five, roll over, down, paw, round, leave, fetch, come and more! He is a beautiful dog and I could never hurt her. Even when she is extremely naughty and runs out the front door onto the road I never smack her I just praise her for coming back! Yes Maisie is popular at the moment! My Maisie was playing with another Maisie only yesterday! 

I have some adorable pics of her!


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

She sounds like a very clever little dog.I have 5 BTs and they can be little sods at times.


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## WhatWouldSidDo (Nov 17, 2012)

There are many classes still using old fashioned BULLYING. The first class I tried wouldn't allow food I never returned but sent them a copy of the culture clash.

I'm pleased that you understood that this was not acceptable training and your post tells me that your knowledge is growing


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Sorry that you had a bad time. I must say that I train my dogs in ''The Old Fashioned Way'' I dont use behaviorists or terms like reinforcement, negative or positive. My old fashioned way is to have patience, not look for an easy fix, I try to understand that each pup I've owned will be slightly different from the others. I've never layed a hand on my dogs other than as a reward or in play. I cant imagine what use a shock collar could be other than scaring the life out of a dog. My old fashioned way is to be fully aware that any training with a young dog is a case of two steps forward and one back and to learn the signs that tell you that today may not be a day when your pup is going to be responsive to a training session, so just dont force it. It frustrates you and the pup who may just want to be a silly puppy. There's no rush, hopefully the dog will be with you for many years. It's perhaps a dated way of thinking in todays modern world but it's worked for me, just as it did for my dad, many, many years ago.


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

Firedog said:


> She sounds like a very clever little dog.I have 5 BTs and they can be little sods at times.


Oh yes tell me about it! She sometimes decides that the people next door aren't allowed in their house or garden anymore because its too near to her territory! 

And this class wasn't so much old fashioned it was just plain cruel!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

His name wasn't Williams by any chance?


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## Vev (Feb 15, 2013)

rona said:


> His name wasn't Williams by any chance?


Don't think so!

How come?

Could you recommend a good training class in my area if you lived near me?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

i'm so sorry U had such an awful experience, but i'm also glad U had the good sense to leave briskly - 
there's no point in hanging about to watch dogs be yanked, smacked, & otherwise confronted harshly,
as there are only 2 possible results: the dog BITES BACK, or the dog GIVES UP. Neither is a happy result. 


Vev said:


> [Our] 12-MO Border Terrier... is a bit shy with other dogs; she's been attacked before & had several
> run-ins with other dogs. We decided to take her to a local training class in Herefordshire...


i'd like to suggest this:
the APDT-uk does not allow their members to use aversive tools or confrontational methods;
here are the 3 trainers listed for Herefordshire 
Local Dog Trainers in Herefordshire UK

one of them, Jodie Sterry, is listed as living in Gloucestershire
Jodie Sterry OCN


> member #00782
> 
> Address
> 6 Coverham Close, Berry Hill, Coleford, Gloucestershire GL16 7QX
> ...


but Jodie offers behavior consults, it's listed on their personal-page, & s/he services Herefordshire as well.
:001_smile:


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## mrtank (Mar 4, 2013)

Maybe you should name the place so people know to avoid?


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Sounds horrific but glad to read you are sounding more positive about Maisies behaviour/training


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