# Looking for advice on types of fish/Aquatic animals



## adengtg (Jan 19, 2018)

hello, i am thinking of setting up an aquarium but i don;t know what i should put in it. I am looking at tanks around 60-30-30CM and if possible i want either a mix of fish and some kind of aquatic animal (Newt, axolotl, crab etc) OR some different varieties of fairly large fish. Does anybody have a recommendation of any species that will live nicely together and not need too much maintenance.
I havent had any aquatic pets but have had many others in my past. 
Nothing too expensive please.

Thanks for the help!


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Hi adengtg and welcome 

That tank size is around 70 L and not suitable for anything particularly large. I have a tank with those dimensions and the largest fish I've kept in it is a platy, I wouldn't go much bigger than that.

There are several pitfalls to mixing fish with other aquatic creatures - some creatures will prey on the fish, while others will be outcompeted for food and potentially end up starving. I don't really know much about newts or axolotls, but imagine they'd need a bigger tank than you're proposing. One animal that can, with proper care, be successfully kept with fish in a tank of that size is the African dwarf frog (be careful not to get African clawed frogs instead, as the latter are predatory and will eat the fish!) An ADF or a small group of ADFs could be successfully kept along with a few shoals of small fish; HOWEVER you would need to keep a careful eye on feeding, as ADFs are pretty slow compared to fish and can easily end up being outcompeted. That said, they can be target fed with bloodworms in a turkey baster, and will quickly learn to come to the end of the turkey baster to receive their food (ideally while the fish are distracted by a pinch of fish food at the other end of the tank). It would also be a good idea to keep a second tank handy just in case the frogs aren't doing well in the community tank and need to be moved. (The second tank wouldn't need to be large - I have three ADFs in a 14L tank, for example).

With regard to fish, there's plenty of choice - do you have hard or soft water in your area?

I would also very strongly recommend doing a full fishless cycle, using pure ammonia, before adding anything to your tank. This is the best way of preventing deaths, diseases and long-term health problems in your stock, and although it takes a month or two, it then allows you to fully stock your tank all in one go. More info on why and how to do it can be found here: http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/index.php/page,setting up your new aquarium.html

Do stick around to ask any questions you may have and update us on how everything is going


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## adengtg (Jan 19, 2018)

NaomiM said:


> Hi adengtg and welcome
> 
> That tank size is around 70 L and not suitable for anything particularly large. I have a tank with those dimensions and the largest fish I've kept in it is a platy, I wouldn't go much bigger than that.
> 
> Do stick around to ask any questions you may have and update us on how everything is going


WOW! Serious kudos for that! well, regards to the tank, i remember seeing some 140-40-30Cm size tanks on ebay but they seemed to disappear for some reason. that was the size i was originally looking for.doing some research, axolots arent good to be kept with others but newts can be with the right conditions. 
I am moving to Plymouth soon so the water should be "moderately soft" according to south-west water. I will be moving to a "no pets" flat. I will check with the land-lord but 99% dont have a problem with aquariums as they leave no mess or fleas.

Couldn't those frogs be fed on a small piece of land to remove the food mixing? I am completely open to any sort of frog that can live with fish... other than the poisonous ones!


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

As far as the fish are concerned, a larger tank will certainly give you more choice  There are also more options for soft water than hard water. I'd suggest going to an aquatic shop, having a browse, writing down the species you like the look of, then coming home and doing some research online/asking here 

If you get a deepish tank and decide to go for ADFs, you'll need to provide something along the lines of a piece of bogwood that slopes gently toward the surface, as they need to come to the surface from time to time and they've not very strong swimmers, so this would give them a bit of a hand. You'll also need to make sure the tank is completely lidded and any gaps are covered up to prevent escapes! Fill the tank a little lower than the maximum water level to give them some air space at the top.

ADFs are completely aquatic, though they do need to surface from time to time to breathe, but though they may crawl onto a platform etc above the surface if you provide them with one, they won't spend long there and I'm not sure about feeding them there, though it may be worth a try. The turkey baster method is relatively easy, though. Fish also enjoy bloodworms etc and should be fed them from time to time to add variety to their diet, so you don't need to worry about any harm coming to the fish due to any bloodworms they manage to snaffle, so long as the frogs are getting enough! My three between them get 1/4 cube of frozen bloodworms (defrosted) every other day, which is plenty for them - they don't need feeding daily.

Sorry I can't give any advice at all re newts as I've never had one, but I imagine you'd need a vivarium type setup with some land as well as water? You'd also need to research temperature compatibility, feeding, and whether any small fish would be at risk of getting eaten!


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## adengtg (Jan 19, 2018)

NaomiM said:


> As far as the fish are concerned, a larger tank will certainly give you more choice  There are also more options for soft water than hard water. I'd suggest going to an aquatic shop, having a browse, writing down the species you like the look of, then coming home and doing some research online/asking here
> 
> If you get a deepish tank and decide to go for ADFs, you'll need to provide something along the lines of a piece of bogwood that slopes gently toward the surface, as they need to come to the surface from time to time and they've not very strong swimmers, so this would give them a bit of a hand. You'll also need to make sure the tank is completely lidded and any gaps are covered up to prevent escapes! Fill the tank a little lower than the maximum water level to give them some air space at the top.
> 
> ...


For newts, different species need different environments but pretty much all are fully aquatic. as far as ive read, fish will eat their eggs if laid so they need a few plants that are dense enough that fish cant get to them, otherwise they're fine(as far as ive read from a novice perspective). i think i'd rather have frogs though. more interesting. just out of curiosity, what form does the normal frog food take? is it like small peices like cereal or flakes more like normal fish food. Again, out of curiosity, how long does it take before you need to fully clean out the tank? without buying more than 1 tank, would this be difficult with frogs?


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

adengtg said:


> For newts, different species need different environments but pretty much all are fully aquatic. as far as ive read, fish will eat their eggs if laid so they need a few plants that are dense enough that fish cant get to them, otherwise they're fine(as far as ive read from a novice perspective). i think i'd rather have frogs though. more interesting. just out of curiosity, what form does the normal frog food take? is it like small peices like cereal or flakes more like normal fish food. Again, out of curiosity, how long does it take before you need to fully clean out the tank? without buying more than 1 tank, would this be difficult with frogs?


Some ADFs will take to dried food, but mostly in the shops from what I've seen they're fed on bloodworm, so it can be hit and miss as to whether they'll recognise dried stuff as food! Mine just have the bloodworm - it comes in blister packs that you keep in the freezer, and just defrost what you need by sticking it in a jug of tank water for a minute or two.

Re cleaning, under normal circumstances, neither fish or frogs should ever have the tank fully emptied to clean it out. Once a week you should do a partial water change of around 25%, using a syphon to suck up any poo or uneaten food from the substrate while removing 25% of the water at the same time. If you have an internal filter, clean the top layer of floss by swishing it in the bucket of old tank water (the rest of the media, and all the media in an external filter, need cleaning less frequently). Then top the tank up with clean tap water that has been treated with a liquid dechlorinator and that is the same temperature as the tank water. The livestock stay in the tank throughout the process


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## adengtg (Jan 19, 2018)

NaomiM said:


> Some ADFs will take to dried food, but mostly in the shops from what I've seen they're fed on bloodworm, so it can be hit and miss as to whether they'll recognise dried stuff as food! Mine just have the bloodworm - it comes in blister packs that you keep in the freezer, and just defrost what you need by sticking it in a jug of tank water for a minute or two.
> 
> Re cleaning, under normal circumstances, neither fish or frogs should ever have the tank fully emptied to clean it out. Once a week you should do a partial water change of around 25%, using a syphon to suck up any poo or uneaten food from the substrate while removing 25% of the water at the same time. If you have an internal filter, clean the top layer of floss by swishing it in the bucket of old tank water (the rest of the media, and all the media in an external filter, need cleaning less frequently). Then top the tank up with clean tap water that has been treated with a liquid dechlorinator and that is the same temperature as the tank water. The livestock stay in the tank throughout the process


Well, thank you very much! I will do some more research and find out what i want to have in the future.

Thanks very much for the help!


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm a bit late to this but, Amphibians are my thing I have been keeping them for about 15 years having started with an African dwarf frog.

If you opt for Newts a lot of them need a partial land and aquatic setup, many Newts that are sold in pet shops are fire bellied Newts they are sold as a totally aquatic species but actually Juvenile Newts are mostly terrestrial. All Amphibians are quite sensitive to water quality but African dwarf frogs make a super starter amphibian, they were my first frog 
http://animals.mom.me/keep-firebellied-newt-pet-2254.html
http://firebelliednewts.blogspot.co.uk/

To be honest I'm an experienced Amphibian keeper and I wouldn't suggest you start out with Newts as they aren't easy to keep. 
Frogland is very good for help on African dwarf frogs

http://allaboutfrogs.org/froglnd.shtml

http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/mypets/dwarfs.html

If you decide against Newts or Frogs have you thought about a Betta - Siamese fighting fish with some tetras and corydoras mine gets on very well with our black neons. Bettas have fantastic personalities and can even be taught tricks.





Finally, an aquatic pet that is really interesting is surprisingly a snail. We are seeing lots of different exotic snails come into the hobby, 6 months ago I would have told anyone who told me to get a snail they were mad, however, since then we have got 2 nerite snails and then last week 2 rabbit snails I absolutely love them. They are so interesting and entertaining have a look at some of the YouTube snail videos you might find yourself surprised.

Finally, you could forget the fish altogether and just go for a lovely group of fire-bellied toads.

http://amphibiancare.com/2008/03/21/fire-bellied-toad/

http://www.theamphibian.co.uk/fire-bellied_toad_caresheet.htm


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## adengtg (Jan 19, 2018)

Picklelily said:


> I'm a bit late to this but, Amphibians are my thing I have been keeping them for about 15 years having started with an African dwarf frog.
> 
> If you opt for Newts a lot of them need a partial land and aquatic setup, many Newts that are sold in pet shops are fire bellied Newts they are sold as a totally aquatic species but actually Juvenile Newts are mostly terrestrial. All Amphibians are quite sensitive to water quality but African dwarf frogs make a super starter amphibian, they were my first frog
> http://animals.mom.me/keep-firebellied-newt-pet-2254.html
> ...


Dont worry, i havent set anything up yet!

Yeah, i think African frogs is the best idea but i found out that i will be able to take my cats with me to my new place which means i probably wont besetting this up. Thanks very much for the help though. really appreciate it!


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Well cats are even more awesome


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## Ella28 (Feb 4, 2018)

I've kept cold water fish, i had a 3ft tank and had 7 goldfish, they had plenty of room and grew a fair size, one of them was at least 7yrs old, i made my own gravel cleaner with a small lemonade bottle and a length of hosepipe, it was very effective! I found it very relaxing to watch the fish swim around.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Ella28 said:


> I've kept cold water fish, i had a 3ft tank and had 7 goldfish, they had plenty of room and grew a fair size, one of them was at least 7yrs old, i made my own gravel cleaner with a small lemonade bottle and a length of hosepipe, it was very effective! I found it very relaxing to watch the fish swim around.


Fish are very relaxing to watch aren't they.

Wow 7 goldfish in a 3 foot tank is quite a number. Were they fancies or common goldfish?

My goldfish lived till their mid twenties. Which though a fair age, given they can and do live to their thirties or forties wasn't as long as they could have lived but I have to confess when I first got them I was a child and knew little about fish. As much as it would be nice to own goldfish again I wouldn't buy common goldfish as they can and should grow huge (up to 30cm) so best for ponds. The fancies are OK in tanks but as they grow to cricket ball size in a couple of years need big tanks and I just haven't got the room. So it is tropicals for me.

OP glad you can take your cats with you. I am sure they will love being able to stay with you. Don't forget to change your details on their microchips before you move in case they get lost.


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## Ella28 (Feb 4, 2018)

kittih said:


> Fish are very relaxing to watch aren't they.
> 
> Wow 7 goldfish in a 3 foot tank is quite a number. Were they fancies or common goldfish?
> 
> ...


They were common goldfish, after the 7yr old died i gave the rest to a friend who has a garden pond, i did consider a pond myself but with losing husband i moved to an apartment so i have no garden now. I enjoyed cleaning out the tank and ornaments, filling it up though was a pain as i used jugs of water! Feeding time was fun too as they would all be at the top of the tank waiting for din dins! :Hungry


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

@Picklelily I didn't realise you were a fellow ADF keeper! My ones (well technically they're my son's, but you can guess who feeds and cleans them out!) are called Thomas, Jack and Olivia (my son named them!), they live on their own in a 14L tank, and we've had them 1.5 years. I've found them very easy to care for, much more so than the fish! I might try to get some photos later  Do you still have ADFs? If so, I'd love to see photos, plus feel free to share any tips


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi Naomi, sadly I no longer have any African Dwarf frogs we kept them for a lot of years when my own son was small. We also had fire bellied newts which sadly were our second 2 after I purchased to my shame the first one on impulse. The pet shop assistant assured me that they were very much like my African Dwarf frogs, purely aquatic and very easy to care for! Sadly I put the newt into my sons' tank as instructed only to have the poor thing drown as it was in its terrestrial phase. I then with research found out not only did they need land the temperature of a tropical fish tank was much too high for them. Its always haunted me but 13 years ago researching an animal in the shop wasn't easy and information wasn't as widely available on the internet.

I did thanks to that poor little Newt discover Andrew Tillson-Willis's page at Pollywog at that time he had a very active web page and care sheets, these days he seems to sell fewer reptiles and amphibians plus the forum seems to have vanished. He does, however, have a very good shop that sells several frog related products, he also has an eBay shop with items to help sick frogs.

I fell in love with frogs so much I progressed to tree frogs. I have had my Whites tree frogs for 13 years although sadly the oldest girl died in January, what did amaze me was her best friend stopped eating for 3 weeks I was so worried especially as our local reptile vet is useless with frogs. She was obviously grieving for her friend as she is now eating well and eyeballing me in the evening in the hope of food.

My biggest tip for having African Dwarf frogs and fish for that matter is to wear gloves when handling bloodworms, at the moment I can't have anything that requires bloodworms as I now have a serious allergy to bloodworm so much so that I can't even touch a packet of another frozen food if it has been near the bloodworm. My husband does feed our betta but as he often works away so feeding ADF or Newts would be a problem. I am currently experimenting with growing my own brine shrimp to adults and if that is successful I can think about trying a worm culture. The first batch hatched but then failed after 3 days so I'm back t the drawing board or salt water jug in this case .


My second big tip is to be careful with your son enjoying fish and frogs. I purchased a tank for my 4-year-old son to help him relax as he was a poor sleeper, it has to lead to a lifelong fascination with fish. He cost us an arm and a leg as he is now a fisheries scientist, I have spent the last fortnight worrying as the little ratbag sent me videos of the ocean during a force 9 gale whilst he is on a ship.

There is a fantastic WAV file on the frogland page of ADF singing, if you vacuum clean at night you can sometimes temp your male ADF into singing in a challenge to the Vacuum cleaner. It's fairly quiet so you are lucky if you catch them.

Sadly I have no photographs of my African Dwarf Frogs but I will post some of my Whites tree frogs who are gorgeous.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Ella28 said:


> They were common goldfish, after the 7yr old died i gave the rest to a friend who has a garden pond, i did consider a pond myself but with losing husband i moved to an apartment so i have no garden now. I enjoyed cleaning out the tank and ornaments, filling it up though was a pain as i used jugs of water! Feeding time was fun too as they would all be at the top of the tank waiting for din dins! :Hungry


That must have been very difficult to do especially after losing your husband, so sorry for your loss.

Fish are fantastic aren't they such great individual personalities.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

frog a little bit older




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Picklelily


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Jul 5, 2013


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

frog just a baby here but sooo cute




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Picklelily


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Jul 5, 2013











  








frog just a baby here but sooo cute




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Picklelily


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Jul 5, 2013


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

@Picklelily Cute photos! I've never caught my ADFs singing, but then their tank is in my son's bedroom, so if they sing at night I probably wouldn't hear! I think we have two males and one female judging by body shape, but not too sure. I would love them to breed and I even bought a little tank for the tadpoles just in case, but haven't found any eggs as of yet, and I gather they're quite tricky to hatch and raise!


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

I would have loved to breed mine I find the metamorphosis from tadpole to frog fascinating. If I can sort out the brine shrimp then I might be able to get more. I have a nice empty 12-litre tank that just needs an occupant.

Have you managed to get yours to eat the zoo med aquatic frog pellets?

I think there is a section on breeding them in my frog bible I will have a look.


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## Ella28 (Feb 4, 2018)

Picklelily said:


> That must have been very difficult to do especially after losing your husband, so sorry for your loss.
> 
> Fish are fantastic aren't they such great individual personalities.


Thank you. It was a difficult time to be honest, i'm just starting to settle in my apartment, my dog Lulu stays at mums a lot as i work shifts, i stay there too at weekends. . The first goldfish i had was one my friend won at a fair, it was in a plastic bag and she hooked the bag to a tree while she went on the rides, when she told us what she had done i went and retrieved it, i took it home and my mum put it in a large food bowl until the next day when she bought a starter kit fishtank for me, i only had the one goldfish in it but i enjoyed caring for it, i felt responsible for it. I was about 14 at the time.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Picklelily said:


> Have you managed to get yours to eat the zoo med aquatic frog pellets?


TBH I haven't tried, I just cut frozen bloodworm cubes into quarters and feed 1/4 cube every two days. It's easy enough and it's what they were being fed in the shop, so I thought it was safest to stick with what I knew they'd eat


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Ella28 said:


> Thank you. It was a difficult time to be honest, i'm just starting to settle in my apartment, my dog Lulu stays at mums a lot as i work shifts, i stay there too at weekends. . The first goldfish i had was one my friend won at a fair, it was in a plastic bag and she hooked the bag to a tree while she went on the rides, when she told us what she had done i went and retrieved it, i took it home and my mum put it in a large food bowl until the next day when she bought a starter kit fishtank for me, i only had the one goldfish in it but i enjoyed caring for it, i felt responsible for it. I was about 14 at the time.


Glad you are settling now it sounds a great arrangement for you and Lulu.

Those days of fish in bags at the fair I remember them well, good for you rescuing that fish sometimes those animals we end up with almost by accident end up bringing us a lot of joy


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

NaomiM said:


> TBH I haven't tried, I just cut frozen bloodworm cubes into quarters and feed 1/4 cube every two days. It's easy enough and it's what they were being fed in the shop, so I thought it was safest to stick with what I knew they'd eat


Yes it's a good policy generally but sadly not for me with bloodworms on the plus side brine shrimp batch 2 are doing well


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